Love Forever Is Just “Moments” Strung Together

Untitled design (14)

intimacyCircular Dating is the “laboratory section” of “Love 101.” It’s practicing “in the field.” It’s Research and Development.

If you can look at Circular Dating as gathering data instead of as trying to make something happen – you’ll move much faster, feel much better – and actually have fun!

Circular Dating is a mindset, a complete sort of “reframing” of the whole idea of “dating,” an attitude, with a very nuts-and-bolts way of working your life in public.

Here are some ways to think about how to USE men in your life to HELP you – instead of trying to “get” from them the love, affection, attention and commitment they should actually be REQUIRED to WANT to give to you—in order to have the privilege of being with you:

1. Keep reinforcing the mental and intellectual idea to your MIND that Circular Dating will help you UNDO your old patterns

The idea is: Your old ways of thinking, feeling and responding to men, the way you’ve been trained to “be” with men – have all been working AGAINST you.

And you want to cut-and-paste all your instincts, skills, behaviors, words –everything to do and say that expresses yourself out in the world.

You want to jettison some of your old systems of relating and responding and speaking and doing and being, and you want to shift some of them. And some you want to completely reverse.

And still, we don’t want to beat those things you’ve been thinking, doing and saying up.

We don’t want to judge them – we want to BUILD WITH them. To USE what you’ve already got in your personal warehouse. To FIND a way to use them. We want to use EVERYTHING you’ve ever learned, ever known, ever seen, ever experienced – to HELP you get to a NEW place.

We want to make MORE of you – not less.

For instance – if you’re going on a car journey – knowing how to drive is helpful (even if you have to re-learn and re-do some driving skills…).

**Also – on Monday, February 10th, you can get personal help from me in my next Love Forever teleclass in the Love Forever program – go here to learn how Love Forever works, and how you can get immediate answers to your situation:

2. Keep convincing YOURSELF of the elegance of this fact: That to undo old patterns that aren’t working – you have to discover and uncover those patterns.

What you’re going for here is a string of “aha” moments.

Convince yourself of the truth that – Getting new information and knowledge into your head, processed with your brain, through analysis and thought will do you only so much good. ( We all know how frustrating it is to KNOW something but just not be able to shift it…).

Make it up, if you have to, until you have the actual EVIDENCE (and you will, quickly, as you Circular Date with this new mindset) to keep you going – that this will be true for you:

3. To undo the patterns once you’ve discovered them – You have to EXPERIENCE the little discoveries with your whole mind/heart/body/spirit.

This means you have to:

>>>Welcome – in fact INVITE – being triggered.

>>>Be constantly in “investigation” mode.

Ask yourself questions like “How do I feel?” and “Why am I here” and “who is this man and why is he here in front of me?”

>>>You have to catch when you’re giving to “get”

Because your being a “giving” person will make any man who is a natural “giver” NOT be attracted to you!

A man who wants to give needs a woman who is willing to receive. And for most of us – love only feels like it’s happening when we give.

And so we have to practice.

4. Circular Dating is all about your practice.

>>>First – simply practice NOT giving (this is where the “toads” come in very, very handy for practice, because it makes not giving easier, less intense, less scary).

>>>Then, you practice RECEIVING… which looks and feels like you opening your heart.

(This step requires a man a little more attractive to you than a “toad” – but not so attractive that it makes opening your heart too intense, chancy and scary.)

So – again – you don’t really need your dream man to show up right away for your practice. (He will, anyway, when you least expect it, and you won’t likely recognize him as your dream man right off anyway.) The thing here is for you to NOT stop practicing when he shows up (or when you think it’s him showing up).

The thing is to practice for life.

And all along the way of practice:

5. You’re going to feel stuff.

You’re going to feel stuff you want to feel (thrills and chills and fun) and stuff you don’t want to feel (…well, grief, for one thing…, because as things change and you start down different roads that will lead you to new, love-filled places…you feel in limbo. In Transit. You feel grief for the old road. Really, truly, we do feel grief at leaving our old roads behind).

That’s why:

6. Circular Dating is “school.”

It’s “Love 101.” It’s – “How did I get to this place marked “No Love” – and how do I switch course and get myself to the place marked “Plenty of Love?”

Forever is just a bunch of moments strung together. One after the other. And the only way to experience that is to start treasuring the experiencing of MOMENTS. Each one, one at a time.

So, if you have an experience with a man – even a 10 second encounter – I want you to HONOR that. I want you to investigate what went on during those 10 seconds – and be curious about what happened, about the man, and about you. The way to break the old patterns of behavior is to try new ones.

And then …yes …you’ve opened up a new door in the pathways of your life.

You’ve opened up a place where you can choose between behaviors, where there may never have been a choice before.

Yes, you may be attracted to “bad boys,” you might go down some wrong roads, you may get stuck, you may go so far into great new things you scare yourself silly – but you can choose to not feel helpless before all that and just keep going to Circular Dating School.

It’s a home study course, and you are the teacher, the manager and the student. Love is your field of interest, and men are in the field.

Men are all in the laboratory out there, And because they’re participating with you in your home study course – they are both the elements of it, the experiment of it, the study subjects of it and your teachers of it, your free therapists of it, your providers of experience of it, your study partners of it, your messengers of it, your school friends of it, your lovers of it. They’re the backdrop and the action and the population of your “story” every moment of every day.

Use them as they wish to be used – for the good of love and for the good of you. If you’re always practicing speaking the truth – then what is good for love and good for you will be good for them, too.

Don’t ever hold a man up higher than you hold yourself. Practice letting the men in the field into your heart until you feel so solid inside that the fear of letting ’em all see who you are just drops away.

***Note: A new Teleclass in my “Love Forever” Membership Series is coming up on Monday, February 10th. If you’d like to get YOUR questions answered, and get personal coaching around your unique situation by writing to me directly, in real time, from your computer during live class (plus get instant access to over 20 recorded hours of the Love Forever program!) go here to learn more about how Love Forever works:

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Iris on February 7, 2014 at 7:22 am

    Yay! A circular dating post!

    Sirens, Circular Dating DOES work! So an update on my experiences CDing. I had to tell main CD guy J that I just wasn’t ready for exclusivity. I loved being single, and that I really needed to talk to other guys also at the moment. Although I did promise him that I was okay with not sleeping with any other guy. (I don’t feel good sleeping with more than one man.)

    He fought tooth and nail about it, but finally said that he just wanted me to be happy, and that if I wanted to see other guys I could. This totally shows that when some guys who say they get “turned off” when the girl dates around, they don’t necessarily mean it. What’s actually going on is the man is feeling insecure, and maybe even emasculated, but deep down inside, he can’t help but feel drawn to a woman who has options.

    Some of you ladies might remember that J is the guy who said he wanted me to drive out to him more. Now, he doesn’t even ask for it. He has completely shifted into masculine energy. He is more affectionate, because I told him I’m a touchy person and that’s what I need in a relationship.

    I truly believe that leaning back, CDing, and practicing the tools has helped me get to this point with J 🙂 It’s true: allow yourself to be surprised!

  2.  #2Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 7:47 am

    Yayy you Iris!!

  3.  #3Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 7:55 am

    “Don’t ever hold a man up higher than you hold yourself. Practice letting the men in the field into your heart until you feel so solid inside that the fear of letting ‘em all see who you are just drops away.”

    I love it.

  4.  #4Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 7:57 am

    “The idea is: Your old ways of thinking, feeling and responding to men, the way you’ve been trained to “be” with men – have all been working AGAINST you.

    And you want to cut-and-paste all your instincts, skills, behaviors, words –everything to do and say that expresses yourself out in the world.”

    Rori/Dominique does this apply to the thinking of and calling men jerks and losers even if they are?

  5.  #5Indigo on February 7, 2014 at 8:09 am

    That’s so marvelous, and feels so good to read, Iris 🙂

    And I agree with you, a good, masculine energy man is not turned off by the idea of having other men as options in your life… quite the opposite. And it will not drive a good man away.

  6.  #6Iris on February 7, 2014 at 8:31 am

    @ FW #2 Thanks!! It’s such a great feeling!

    @Indigo #5 Yup! Men are drawn to women with options. And even if they feel insecure or emasculated, it’s like what Rori said, it doesn’t matter what’s going on with the man. That’s his own stuff.

  7.  #7Veronica on February 7, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Oh my!!! I so need this article – thank you Rori!

    This is what I need to do more of, I believe:

    Ask yourself questions like “How do I feel?” and “Why am I here” and “who is this man and why is he here in front of me?”

    I’m doing this a little bit but I need to welcome more of it. It’s such a feeling-through quiet voice and it’s so intuitive and I need to listen carefully.

    I feel elated inside that this article is up.

  8.  #8Veronica on February 7, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Only after almost a year of participating on this blog is the Siren ‘way’ starting to feel more intuitive for me.

  9.  #9Liquid Light on February 7, 2014 at 9:39 am

    That’s great Iris! Woohoooo for you!!!

  10.  #10Dominique on February 7, 2014 at 9:59 am

    Femininewoman – 5 – I think so, yes. I don’t think most people intend to be a jerk or a loser, and I don’t think most of them even are. This might be your perception. Holding onto negative thoughts like this doesn’t serve you either. Most people perceived as you say are likely troubled. So you let them go, no further thoughts needed.

  11.  #11Kyla on February 7, 2014 at 10:35 am

    I have Modern Siren playing in the background again today and I feel squishy and smiley and soft. I feel overwhelmed by my CDs and R back in contact and I feel curious to explore going deeper into this. I intend to take care of my body and home and feel gorgeous in both. I intend to practice being in full out girl. I intend to lean so far back I’m lying down and allowing the world to hold me up. I intend to sink so deeply into feeling my feelings that I allow myself to be immersed in my body’s glorious flowing sensations. I feel vulnerable and shaky and that feels freeing. I feel energized and now I feel comforted by this hot tea filling my belly with warmth and it feels pleasurable to just sit here and allow my body to sink into the softness of this chair and rest.

  12.  #12Kyla on February 7, 2014 at 10:41 am

    I miss you, Cupcake!

    I’m sending you squishy hugs and happy vibes today.


  13.  #13Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Oh my Kyla I feel sucked into your cocoon. Thanks for sharing that. I literally felt my body feeling all soft and melty like ice cream in the sun while reading 11.

  14.  #14prplpsn28 on February 7, 2014 at 10:58 am

    Veronica said this as part of her post on the previous thread: I have to look at his actions because there aren’t any real words of ‘how I feel about you’ which usually causes me to not look so much at the actions. 

    Exactly me. The only difference is that we’ve been in a relationship for 2 1/2 years. I wonder if I will ever hear the words. I know actions speak louder. But the words would be nice. I tend to then start overthinking and let the nasty voices take over which then changes my vibe and he backs away. It seems to be a never ending pattern that I can’t seem to figure out hiw to break. Ugh

  15.  #15Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 11:17 am

    prplpsn28 what came to mind is I wonder what would happen if you go around in life saying the same words you want to hear to every cat, dog, tree, air, table, child, human you come across. First go in the mirror and say it to yourself constantly even if he is around and hears you. Then walk around with that vibe pouring out of you onto everything you come across. I wonder if he would catch on eventually.

  16.  #16Turquoise on February 7, 2014 at 11:55 am

    Thanks for the support sirens. I need it.

    Dominique, I feel like what I got from him was all a lie. I trusted him… and we talked last night.. apparently 2 dates was actually 2 weeks of daily contact. I’m thinking it’s someone who lives in his new apartment building. Yes it was practice, and I think you are right FW, how I handled our relationship and keeping my boundaries, allowed him to reveal his truth. BUT, I still feel deceived. I’ve dated him on and off for over a year. Not once, in all the time we’d spent together, did he ever hint to anything, except that he wanted to be with me. And only me.

    So all that he gave to me…. feels fake, like I was scammed. I had a really hard time trusting anyone after my divorce, but I trusted him. If I didn’t hear from him, I believed that he was sleeping…. his meds make him tired. I leaned back and didn’t ask… and during that time I leaned back, he was seeing someone else and deciding to come out of the closet. I’m very relieved to have found out now… not 10 years down the road.

    He’s being very cold though, just says get over it, move on… and I will. I know the anger will subside, it’s just not instantaneous. It might be hard to understand how violated i feel… if you’ve never been in this situation. One of the things I loved, was all the wonderful things he said…. it helped me get past all the baggage he was dealing with… and now, to know he was in love with the idea of being in love and wanted a normal life, so he really tried…. but that he wasn’t really in love with me…. kinda hard to take. I am truly relieved to know now, not later.. but still wish he’d said something before things got romantic again. I slept with him, 3 months after starting to date again, because of how far we’d come in those 3 months and I trusted him. I shouldn’t have. And that sucks.

    I do have a dinner date tonight with a cute 33 year old who lives close. I’m trying to be excited, he seems really nice and I don’t normally date younger men, so kinda interested to see how that feels. I hope you are right Leigha, maybe there is still a good one in my future.

  17.  #17Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    Turquoise how are you with trusting yourself? Have you done any work, self talk around trusting yourself?

  18.  #18Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    I also wonder if there is a woman out there who has never felt scammed by a man?

    I am not downplaying your experience Turquoise. Though this particular kind might not be everyone’s experience I believe the record will show that the majority of women get deceived by men. When you are brave enough to open yourself to experience life these types of things do happen.

  19.  #19Liquid Light on February 7, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Turquoise, its OK to feel angry at him. I would. Most people would. Just feel your feelings, don’t bury then, don’t deny them. It will take time. And bravo to you for going out on a date tonight with a hot 33 yr old. Wow, so impressed. Whatever happens, just try to enjoy it, don’t force anything…you may be too tender and feelings too raw to be able to be that open to him (I probably would) but at least enjoy the view! 😉 Hang in there, girl, it will get better and I think you are doing awesome!!! Big hugs!!!!

  20.  #20Cris on February 7, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    @Iris congratulations
    @Turquoise all my best wishes, the future is there

  21.  #21Turquoise on February 7, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Thank you, I’m trying the best I can. I just sent him my goodbye text, not mean or angry… but full of how this feels. I don’t know that he gets why I’m hurt… really seeing this from his point of view, but he’s pushed away a lot of people in his life. Maybe he doesn’t know how he does that. But it’s my closure. My no friendship text, but that I wish him well and letting him know that I’ll miss him. I do care about him, and this must feel terrible. I don’t know how he’s going to face his children. I’m not an unfeeling person by any stretch, and I can see this from his point of view, I just feel it could have been handled much differently.

    And you are right FW, I’m sure most women feel deceived by men in their lives. Which feels to me like I should enjoy what lasts, expect to be deceived and when that happens, either fix it or walk away. Maybe I’ll just CD instead. I do trust myself. I really really didn’t see this one coming.

  22.  #22Shannon on February 7, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Ugh, I am feeling triggered. “Get over it”?!

    What the hell makes him think that you can find out YESTERDAY that someone who claimed to love you and want a relationship is gay, and then be “over it” TODAY??

    I felt so furious reading that. I think the “get over it” thing is cruel to begin with, so it’s a trigger all by itself. But this guy sprang this on you and he’s being cold towards YOU and telling you to get over it?

    I’m sorry, personally I’d cut all contact with this guy. I really would. It would feel so hard and so painful to do, but it would also give me room to ‘get over it’.

    Grrr. Get over my middle finger, why don’t you!

  23.  #23Shannon on February 7, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    And by ‘yesterday’, I mean extremely recently, by the way. For the record. :p

  24.  #24Liquid Light on February 7, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    yeah, Shannon 22, I agree, pretty cruel behavior.

  25.  #25Iris on February 7, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    @Liquid Light & @ Cris, thanks, ladies!

    And thanks to all my fellow Sirens for all your support 🙂

  26.  #26Mercedes on February 7, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    It’s been a long time since I’ve been here and I don’t really have an update except to say I think of you all often and hope you are well. I don’t have time to go back and read all I’ve missed but you cross my mind every now and then and I can’t help but smile.

    J and I are still trying to get the business up and running. Construction was…horrible and will most likely end in a lawsuit. But…we’re staying positive and moving forward and hopefully we’ll actually be open soon. 🙂 Good vibes appreciated!

    Love and Light to you all!

  27.  #27Mandy on February 7, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    I just went to the gym with a female friend. I do consider putting myself out there, getting over gym shyness and pumping some iron can provide many flirting opportunities…innocent, circular dating whilst in relationship 🙂

    Practicing my dance position and breathing!

    Would like to find a thought spot in a park or trail, like a great place to stretch, riff, write, draw, meditate!

  28.  #28Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    Hey Mercedes!!!!

    Great to read your update.

  29.  #29Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 2:50 pm


    I really feel for you my friend. I wish you were here to I could give you a real hug and hold you. I can only imagine how it all feels,

  30.  #30Brenda on February 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Ok I have a therapy session scheduled for money evening.I feel good about it especially that the x is gone now he startedhis time for the case he had traffic and something with checks.He left fri he had me to come to his moms house and I did we took pics and hugged, his baby mother took one pic of he and I hugging I asked her if she could take the pic and she said ok, looking back at that I feel so weird and stupid about being there with 2 of his kids mother’s were there too.

    I seen him early morn for sex and at 4 he said he was having a drink before he was to turn himself in so, I said I would’ve loved to join and he said come on over so I did, when I got there his mom was really nice.She offered me a drink and he was on the enclosed back talking with his guy friends he looked at me and smiled.The 2 baby mom’s were sitting at the table one looked at me crossed and I sat down anyway and I remained pleasant. She wouldn’t talk much the other one seemed not to enthusiastic about conversation with me so his mom and I talked mainly. The older baby mother which is 38 and x is the same age as me 32, she was really engaging with baby mom who is 26, and I didn’t feel left out because I really just wanted to be cordial.

    The older baby mom was taking pics of him and his mom and my son loves x and he got in the pic and x was holding him smiling and I asked him if it was ok if I got in he said ok and I asked baby mom the one that’s 38 could she take pic and she said ok.He got ready to leave and his dad and her got in the car to take him to the station. Which I knew she would go with them because he and I were on bad terms since I changed my locks and the incident with him invited his first in my house.After that night he continued to come over and he also continued to say how much he loved me.He continued to bring his kids over off and on the all stayed a night at my house.The same day they stayed at my house he and I had went to the movies and stayed out late in the car talking.

    I see it that he stayed at my hkuse maybe 2 nights a week and I’d see him everyday if he wasn’t at my house but I guess those other nights he would be with one of the baby mothers.Everything I have stated is true and actual fact on the situation he and I had.

    His clothes were at my house sometimes if I didn’t see him I was at work and he’d be at my house and change clothes, lay around and, when I’d get off work he’d be leaving to go work or something maybe see one of the baby moms or his kids idk exactly.But I’m attached to him and its weird and messed up because he has these other 2 relationships.Its so hurtful and even though he is not around I can’t sleep and keep rewinding things over in my mind.

    Its so hard for me to get up for work, I have knot in my breast and its hard for me to engage in anything right now.I cook for my kids help with homework by 6 I’m in the bed for good not even watching tv.

    He has been calling me but I hadn’t paid to receive the collect calls.He got through once and it was quick he told me what num to call to pay for collect calls and he said he loved me and he had to go.

    But rewind to he supposed to left fri his family had a going awAy get together for him but he didn’t go fri. I just so happened to text his mom on tues and asked her had she heard from him? I got a text back saying that she couldn’t talk now and his sons are going thru somethings and that he had left her with my door keys and debit card, and she said she was so sorry if she hurt my feelings.The next morning he called me from his cell which was a tues I was so stumped.He said he had went to the wrong place to turn himself in and basically he was trying to run from it and that he didn’t tell me because he wanted to spend sat sun mon with his kids.I was so messed up and I told him that its ok that i understand and that it does hurt so bad that he didn’t let me know and I was thinking he was in jail. He said he hate that he contacted me that he knew I would be mad.He hung up on me but called back and asked me to meet him at his mom’s house so I did and we came back to my house we ate some food and had a drink, sex and at 4 he said it was time he go in and get it over with his dad came and picked him up.

    That same day at 8 I got a call from him and that’s when he asked me to put money on my phone he in fact did turn himself in and I looked him up online.

    I don’t know what to do now? I want to take the time he’s away to heal my mind, spirit, and body from him.I want to move on.Moving on with him around would be close to impossible he wouod come around and I’d go for whatever story he would tell me so I can honestly say its me that holds on.I change locks, call police, don’t answer his calls, change my num, take his clothes to his moms house in the mid nite and a week or days later he calls and that’s all it takes is him saying hes sorry he loves me he even says his daughter missed me.The week after Christmas I changed my locks and blocked his calls he called my daughter’s phone and then came in front of my house with his daughter he has with the 26 or maybe she 25 I can’t remember but her daughter was with him and he said that she missed me and wanted to visit.I have his sons we go to movies along with my kids.

    The one thing is that I am not around his other family members on special occasions he tells me where he’s at like on Christmas he stood me up and told me since he was with me on Christmas eve he decided he wanted to spend time with his kids he said I knew where he was I should’ve just came which I know is b.s..

    But right now I’m processing things and will talk to my therapist on mon.I also plan on trying to get over him so when he does get out he will be out of my system and I’ll be out of his.Right now he’s trying to call so I will talk to him no arguing, I don’t know if I want to just cut communicate completely or just right letters and focus on getting myself together I haven’t decided yet

  31.  #31Brenda on February 7, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Sorry for all the typos I am at work on my new cell that has a terrible spell correction that bugs the heckler out of me

  32.  #32Lisa on February 7, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    I’ve never done this before, but I caught myself rolling my eyes when on the phone with “J” tonight b/c he has changed the plans 2 times tonight and I kept changing clothes… I realize that that might come across even over the phone… to him and we’ve never met… so now i’m trying to get my vibe back on… and leave in a few mins… I’m so glad that I noticed I did that… and I’m curious why? I’m not that kind of person …hummmm I’ll ask myself later…

    off to the date


  33.  #33Liquid Light on February 7, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    I hope you have a great date, Lisa!

  34.  #34Mandy on February 7, 2014 at 6:16 pm

    Shannon – 81 from last blog – Yes I agree…if what I have to say on here triggers anyone, I’m sorry…but I need this speaking spot just as much as everyone else.

    I do feel my relationship is being demonized a bit.

  35.  #35Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    #12 Kyla-

    Thanks for the shout out and the hugs. I appreciate them.

    I posted on the last thread- This week I have been in very boy energy and preoccupied about whether to stay in New City or not.

    There are reasons to stay and reasons to go.

    Kyla, did I miss a post somewhere? R is back in your life?

  36.  #36Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 6:44 pm


    I just wanted to say I’m so sorry that you were disappointed this way.

    Maybe the timing of your learning the truth has a message from the Universe for you– Meanting that it happened while we were all writing on the thread that had the wonderful first post about the woman who finally met the right man after so many disappointments.

    I have confidence that you’ll look back on this and say, “Ah. THAT’S why that turned into a train wreck just then.”

    Something better is coming for you. x


  37.  #37Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 6:48 pm


  38.  #38Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 6:50 pm


    I can see why you would feel like your relationship is being demonized…. and yet if you go back and read the posts that perhaps sound harsh, imagining them spoken with the softest, most loving tones- I think your perception might shift.

    Everyone just wants you to be cherished and protected. Of course they would want you to have a bf who can support you in the style you deserve to become accustomed to, and everything that goes with that!

    This is reality, though, and sometimes a hand is worth playing even if it’s not full of aces. You know? It can still be a winning hand.

    You know if you’re happy. You know how you feel around him. If you’re happy and relieved and feel like it’s where you want to be, then I’m sure I’m speaking for every Siren on this board when I say that’s what we want for you, and God bless.

    Sometimes, it seems to me, it’s just these written words and the intonations of our own inner critics that make people feel judged.

    I’m glad it all turned out the way you wanted.


  39.  #39Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 6:55 pm


    Lately I haven’t been sleeping that great. I found a resource that’s been incredibly helpful, so I want to pass it on to you.

    The giant video website that if we type the name in sends up to moderation (Hint: the second person pronoun is the first word) – well, on that website, I typed in a search for sleep hypnosis, and lots of videos popped up.

    I’ve listened to several. It’s great because it helps lull me to sleep, and then goes on with other healing and affirmative messages. There are some for anxiety, some to help with depression, and some for broken hearts.

    If you ever can’t sleep, that might be something for you to check out.

  40.  #40Femininewoman on February 7, 2014 at 7:02 pm

    Mandy I can totally see why you would feel that way. If only we could step back sometimes and see things from the other person’s perspectives maybe we would choose our words more carefully. Kyla mentioned on the last thread that some things might only make us “feel superior” which I think was really spot on and well said. I have seen Rori mention it also as a reason why some women make men wrong. I guess the feeling of superiority is intoxicating and is most unconscious to individuals though so obvious to observers.

  41.  #41Kyla on February 7, 2014 at 8:26 pm

    (((Cupcake))) it feels so good to hear from you and I feel your frustration with the job and location limbo and know that it will work out perfectly for you.. maybe you can get relocated to my city and we can have those pj and hot chocolate parties 🙂 R is not back, he’s been in contact regularly since he left, he’s always promised to come back, aww its just he’s pulling out the big guns this wk and triggering my soft loving tender memories that I had safely filed away..

    (((FeminineWoman))) Thank you and I feel so gooey reading your melty ice cream image, so poetic and tangible it enlivened my senses. I feel inspired 🙂

    (((Turquoise))) if I had words to sooth your anguish I would gladly give them. My heart aches reading your story and your softness and acknowledging your anger and your commitment to keep going for your own sake wow so inspiring and honouring of your feminine strength. Much love to you.

  42.  #42Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 8:32 pm


    I just found out (from a friend who works at the company) that I didn’t get the job that I wanted.

    So now I am crying. I feel so unwanted.

    They didn’t even interview me, even though I used to work for the sister company doing a similar job.

    Sirens, I don’t know why everything’s so hard for me now. Everything used to be so easy.

    If you met me– I look professional, presentable. I do good, thorough work. I have a good work ethic. I solve problems. I play well with others. I aim to be a good person. My past employers remain friends. (Like my ex-boyfriends….)

    I’m able to engage in long-term, lasting friendships with amazing people.

    And everything’s just all up in the air with men and money and jobs. And it’s been like that for so long. My head is spinning.

    I don’t know what I am doing. I really don’t.

    Please send good thoughts my way.

  43.  #43Indigo on February 7, 2014 at 9:02 pm

    Good loving thoughts going out to you


    And also to you


    Much love and positive vibes. x

  44.  #44Syreena on February 7, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    I feel pleases it worked out well for you Mandy and he stepped up.

    Well done, can’t have been easy for you.

    I was quite clear in my posts in saying if he chose to do it.

    As I believe Rori was too.

    And he didn’t choose to do it.

    He chose not too.

    Like I said yesterday, wish you well with your continuing journey forward in getting the relationship you want.

    All the best, you deserve the best Many, well done.

  45.  #45Syreena on February 7, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    And Rori did say it it was her.

    I asked you if x, y or z was what you wanted.

    So to me it’s great as you got what you wanted he didn’t go.

    He stepped up.

  46.  #46Syreena on February 7, 2014 at 9:24 pm

    Feels totally ironic how some people claim how it’s wrong to say anyone is wrong or judge and then imply that people who say some things in life are wrong and make the judgment that other people as trying to be superior.

  47.  #47Syreena on February 7, 2014 at 9:27 pm

    Not much else to say there so now feels best to not waste any more time or breath on that subject.

  48.  #48Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Hi, Sirens-

    I just did something rather daring for me.

    Feeling sad about not getting the job I wanted…I started (of course) wishing I could talk to Lord V. about it.

    And then I felt really frustrated that my mind immediately went running to Lord V. for comfort.

    And then I felt mad that I put Lord V. on a pedestal partly because of his nationality. I thought, “There are MILLIONS of men in his country, and he’s just one of them.”

    And because I used to live and work in his country, I have lots of wonderful guys of his nationality who are my Facebook friends. All the guys I know are amazing and also happily married. So I went on one of my guys-from-this-particular-country friends pages, looked at all HIS friends, and saw a guy that I never really met, but who has several friends in common with me. (Not just FB, in real life, too.) I’ve known OF this guy for decades, just never met him. Always thought he sounded rather dashing.

    So I messaged him on Facebook, saying, “Hey, I remember you from Paris, June 1996. We met with a group of people….” which is total nonsense. It never happened. I’m just guessing he was in Paris then because a lot of people in our industry were. I said I just saw him on our mutual friend’s page and wanted to say hi.

    I sent the message off- and mind you, it was the middle of the night in his time zone. So imagine my surprise when he responded IMMEDIATELY. And we just spent an hour chatting on Facebook.

    Now, please don’t think I’m expecting anything to happen with this guy. I know he’s single, and I am pretty sure he’s left a series of broken hearts in his wake. He’s very handsome and probably a bit of a player. (Wracking brain for specific stories about this guy, and can’t remember any.)

    But it served my purpose, which was to remind me that Lord V. is NOT the only attractive age-appropriate man in his country. And that chatting on Facebook with handsome men across an ocean and many time zones is just as much fun when it’s NOT Lord V. He is JUST ONE GUY.

    Now if I only had a job, and a clear idea of whether I should stay in New City or not, and a life-plan beyond a desire to be married. I haven’t got any of those things. But I do have a new Facebook pen pal. And I do feel like I am one step further away from Lord V.

    The smallest, most minute, most ridiculous of baby steps.

    But it’s a step in the right direction.


  49.  #49Kyla on February 7, 2014 at 11:04 pm


    Sending you all the love and positive thoughts in the world.

  50.  #50Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 11:21 pm

    Also, Sirens-

    I’m sure that like me, you’ve observed that when it comes to getting over a disappointment in love, some people get over it and move on faster than others.

    Some people have a really hard time getting over it. And I plead guilty to being one of those people.

    A few threads back, I made a reference to Miss Havisham. (If you’re unfamiliar, she’s a character from the Dickens’ book Great Expectations. Miss Havisham was jilted on her wedding day, and never changed out of her wedding dress, and lives in the house surrounded by decaying wedding decorations and a massive rotting wedding cake that mice play in. She’s angry and bitter and…well, to put it mildly, has never moved on.

    After making the reference on the blog, I started reading more about Miss H.,, and I was surprised to learn that there is an actual psychological condition named for her: the Miss Havisham effect, also called Complicated Grieving.

    MRIs have shown that most people, when they’ve lost a loved one, through death or breakup, begin to think of the lost love with the part of the brain that houses memories. These are people who are able to move on with their lives.

    Those of us who have a harder time moving on do not, apparently, move the file to the part of the brain that stores memory. MRIs show that people who are having a hard time with the loss, when they think of the loved on, use the part of the brain that is in the pleasure center of the brain.

    It makes sense, right? When you love someone, and you think of them, it’s pleasurable. Then, if they leave or die, to move forward you have to stop opening their file for the shot of pleasure. You have to relegate them to memory and get your pleasure shots elsewhere. (This is why the successful Siren has many interests and a steady supply of pleasure shots from the pleasure center of her brain, so she is not dependent on one person for that shot.)

    With the Miss Havisham effect, we never move the file. We KEEP going back to the pleasure center when we think of the person, but it’s a painful and weird experience because we KNOW they’re gone, so there’s cognitive dissonance, and yet there’s also the shot of pleasure. The two get mixed up. There’s a crossed circuit. So the weird pain of knowing the person is gone and still getting the pleasure shot from thinking about them– That becomes the pleasure shot. Except it’s not pleasurable. It’s horrible. But it comes with a pleasure shot, and it’s addicting.

    I hope I am explaining it clearly. Reading this, about “complicated grief” really helped me. I realized that that is EXACTLY what I do. I still go to the lost love for the source of pleasure. I forget to move them from an active file to a memory file. Recognizing that that’s what I was doing with Lord V for so long – and why I was doing it- really helped with a paradigm shift about the whole thing.

    So I thought I would share it with you, for those of you who hold on to lost loves even when it isn’t serving.

    Apparently, Dickens based Miss Havisham on a real woman he met in America. She never locked the door of her house, for the rest of her life, on the off-chance that the sweetheart who jilted her at the alter changed his mind and wanted to come back.

  51.  #51Cupcake on February 7, 2014 at 11:26 pm

    Kyla- #49

    Thank you.

    Did you end up having the fun that you woke up expecting to have?

  52.  #52Emerson on February 7, 2014 at 11:42 pm

    Hi sirens!
    So I have an interesting situation with a cd…this is about exoticCD whom I hve rendered into the friend zone and have been fine with that. My “dazzle” for him has left but u so like his company and we have some things in common so nice kept him around as a friend. We have not seen each other much but mostly talking on the phone or texting. In have initiated contact and getting together due to our friend status I’ve allowed myself to lean forward…
    But now…
    I’ve been leaning back more. He actually did a giant favor for me.
    We’ve been in correspondence a bit more because of said favor, but I’ve maintained assuming we are friends.
    And so we have it…
    He has confessed feelings for me and that he’s confused and frustrated because I flirt and then pull back.
    I’m not sure what he means but I was shocked to hear feels that way for me!
    I was actually crying because he was mad and kind if cheering me out for not having sex with him omg!!!!
    Mind you, he has made minimal or actually NO efforts to court me or take me on proper dates. I’m so not impressed and very confused myself.

  53.  #53Emerson on February 7, 2014 at 11:44 pm

    In fact he has more than once contacted me late at night asking me to come to his house and he lives far away. Um no way buddy I Am a Siren I don’t do that !!!!

  54.  #54Veronica on February 8, 2014 at 12:16 am

    Go Emerson!

  55.  #55Veronica on February 8, 2014 at 12:40 am

    It feels trashy and icky when I’m asked to give a BJ with no relationship in sight. It’s as though I’m being put in the FWB-zone WITHOUT any discussion. Ew.

    Now the confusion of the friend-like date makes sense – no effort to make it a date and then the making out. I don’t make out with friends. I don’t want friends who want all the good stuff of being a partner with none of the risking of oneself, putting effort in AS A PARTNER.

    I feel disappointed.
    I feel frustration with having to deal with this.
    I feel old feelings of guilt/shame ‘I should have behaved differently, I should have said this’. I explored and he showed me where he was in relation to me – no guilt needed.

    And then I notice that there’s this difference: there’s what happened and how that makes me feel so less than AND then there’s me realizing that what happened doesn’t match my value at all – like someone gave me the wrong size dress.

    I have my feeling messages and that feels good. It feels like ‘ah now this is more of who I am, what I need’ as opposed to being contorted. Breathe.

  56.  #56Veronica on February 8, 2014 at 12:48 am

    It was as though when we were exploring each other that I could feel how deep down there was no emotional connection for me, it was just physical action, stimulation. I didn’t feel ‘in’ it. There was a moment where I had this choice where I could have this grey sex (which I would have enjoyed) or I could have vibrant sex with me alive in it, all of me in it, where it could be beyond just physical action to so much more. I want to make space for vibrant sex, all-tuned-into-me sex not lack of care rattling in the back of my brain and ‘accepting’ grey sex.

  57.  #57Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 1:30 am


  58.  #58Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 4:57 am

    Hi Sirens

    Wow, Cupcake reading your post re: grief really touched a nerve with me. For some reason I am particularly thinking about the loss of my father, who passed away when I was a teenager.

    I found it deeply hard to move on because it was very unexpected etc…

    I wonder if grief, rather than coming from a particular part of the brain is to do what our relationship is like with that person.

    I think it is far more complex than saying it comes from a particular part of the brain.

    All our relationships are different and losing soneone in a particular way will also have an affect on the grief process.

    That are lots of emotions around grief that can have an effect on so many other aspects of our life. It can be like a domino effect and everything can come crashing down.

    For me everything is a logical process. If you haven’t experienced that particular emotion then you cannot know it exists or what it is even. All you know is your own life and experience.

    We can go through multiple experiences that all have very simillar components but we may feel differently about all of them.

    We can sometimes experience grief or loss and it barely raises a heartbeat, other times our world feels like it is going to collapse.

    I have learnt from observing people that we are all only the product of our own experiences. Mainly understanding is important. I personally sometimes get angry if people move on quickly. I wonder how they do this? But ulitmately they either know that the have to, or perhaps their feelings were not as deep as was thought.

    Either way grief is hugely complex for all kinds of reasons. All of those reasons on personal to that person.

  59.  #59Emerson on February 8, 2014 at 4:59 am

    I feel thankful to rori for giving me the feminine confidence to out girl exoticCD

  60.  #60Emerson on February 8, 2014 at 5:03 am

    Thanks veronica!
    I used feeling messages with exoticCD too and it helped soften my reaction and I no longer feel apologetic for having feelings !

  61.  #61Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 5:07 am


    Good morning.

    I feel a bit low. I am thinking about my boyfriend and wondering what to do.

    I do embrace CD tool – and I love it. I just feel like I am not learning if that makes sense?!

    I wonder if my expectations are too high with a man? I have no idea.

    All I know is I feel insecure with my current boyfriend D and I have no idea why?

    Maybe I don’t feel good around him?? But I don’t know why??

    I don’t feel pampered and relaxed and I always feel like I have to try hard. Hmm… Not good?!

    I try pushing him away but I know I should embrace and explore if a man is making an effort to be with me?!

    I feel like I can’t make a decision on this, and every time I do I change my mind…

    I like having him around. I love him and his energy. We do stuff together, we laugh together. But I find it so hard to relax and be myself with him.

    I yearn for boring and sensible with him, yet he seems go be erratic and spontaneous.

    I feel so confused. I constantly tell him what I want but nothing changes. Yet I can’t seem to end things with him. Just the word ‘end’ terrifies me.

    Any advice would be great. The tougher the better!


  62.  #62Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 5:19 am

    Also with D J just feel exhausted all the time because I am trying to be something I am not.

    He is amazing. He never slobs out or has a day dossing around.

    He pushes himself all the time, and such an amazing guy. He has so much energy – and everyone loves him. Including men. Everyone just looks up to him as this amazing figure.

    I just feel threatened by him all the time like he is soooo perfect!

    I am the opposite. I do the minimal in lots of ways. In other words I like the nice life.

    Well in all honesty I would say I am just ‘normal’. I like a good life / work balance. I have a time and a place for exercise, friendships, socialising, creativity, etc..

    I am a normal Joe Schmoo…

    He is someone who either always has to be on the go / or just stops completely. He is not easy going like I am…

    I feel I would be better suited to other men, but yet feel incredibly sad about this thought.

    He is avery sexy man because people look up to him so much. I think that’s what makes him attractive.

    He is probably the most attractive and charismatic man I know. We are in a social group together and he is always the star of the show.

    I truly believe, although he is middle aged, that he is not ready to settle down with me. But he thinks he is?

    I feel so confused… I can’t work out why he has picked me – we are world apart???

  63.  #63Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 5:21 am

    Re: CDing I do love it! But maybe I’ve got addicted to it. I go out all the time with lots of different people.

    I feel so confused.. I think I am missing some link in the thread somewhere.

    Maybe I CDate superficially?

    Ohhh that is a scary thought???!

  64.  #64Indigo on February 8, 2014 at 5:41 am


    Rori says over and over again (and I have found this in my own life) – that exclusivity is the problem here.

    Now, bear in mind that Circular Dating does not have to mean actually going on dates with other men, although it can. But you do need to fill your life up with other things – passions, people, activities, self-pampering, things you enjoy… Circular Date the world. Open yourself up to other people, animals, activities, care for yourself… anything that feels even a little bit good. So that your energy is not all over your man. That will lessen a lot of the anxiety you are feeling.

    It also helps you to see your situation a bit more clearly, and get a bit of that distance needed to pull yourself back, if that is what you decide to do.

    Another thing which has helped me, is to ask myself, if he is neglecting me, if I don’t feel pampered and relaxed – where am I neglecting myself? where am I not pampering and relaxing myself? If I feel tense and bad in this situation, why am I still here?

  65.  #65Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 5:45 am


    Yes, I do ask myself those questions all the time! Why am I here with him?!

    I do go out with other men, and have other friends and interests.

    I just keep going I guess?!

    Lol, I do understand what you are saying though. I just can’t see what else I can do?!

  66.  #66Indigo on February 8, 2014 at 5:47 am

    Oh, I see your post about that you do go out all the time.

    That is great…

    Could it be your self-love or your self-esteem which is the problem here?

  67.  #67Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 5:48 am

    Also what is the tradeoff? What are you getting being there that you would not be getting if you weren’t there?

  68.  #68Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Also Rori’s comments about Return on Investment came to mind.

  69.  #69Indigo on February 8, 2014 at 5:50 am

    Your relationships will reflect the love you have for yourself…

    It may not always seem that way, but it is true.

    It all starts with you. What you truly want, and knowing that it IS in your power.

    Why am I here? What do I truly want? What is the message here? What are the beliefs which are holding me back from having what I truly want?

    When you know why you are where you are, you can start to shift things.

  70.  #70Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 5:54 am

    There’s got to be a hidden motivation underneath.

    Something is driving you that has nothing to do with love, but with what you want.

    And that’s the recipe for disappointment, anger, regret, a feeling of “waste.”

    Most of the time – what we “think” we want is only stuff that’s been programmed into us over our entire lives.

    In truth, we may never have experienced what we would “really want” – so we don’t know how to even imagine it, much less wish for it or want it.

    We go to our “default” wanting: Wanting an experience we’ve once had, seen, read about.

    If you’re “investing” in someone or something – it’s just like any kind of literal “investment.”

    You’re logically “giving” something of yourself in hopes you’ll make a profit back!

    In the case of a man – you’re investing time, energy, heart, money, expectations, hopes that something will come back to you. That somehow, he will “snap to” and give you back what you’ve given him.

  71.  #71Shannon on February 8, 2014 at 5:59 am

    Waterfall, I’m not saying that this is your issue, but I wanted to share something that has gone on with me personally. It might help you to delve a little deeper into yourself, hearing this.

    I’ve been abandoned many times in my life. I’ve lost no less than 4 men I was in love with to death (and I’m only 42, so they weren’t old age deaths).

    I was in an extremely abusive relationship before this recent one that ended. I stuck it out for much longer than is even remotely healthy on any level. Then in this past relationship, yet again, I stuck it out long after he had checked out on me.

    I begin to realize lately that a part of this is that I don’t want to abandon anyone… and I believe in fidelity without condition. Leaving the abusive one was so difficult because I had promised him fidelity. Letting go of this one didn’t happen when I now feel it should have, because I believe in working it out. I finally gave myself a caveat of “unless he’s abusive”, but now I think that I need to allow myself the caveat of, “unless he has checked out on me”, lol.

    Anyway, I guess my point is that for me, sometimes it helps to understand why I do things. I stuck it out because of my belief in fidelity.

    Furthermore, I was still in love with the early relationship and all along, I nursed that as the relationship… when that wasn’t the reality of the relationship I was living, at ALL.

    The last few days, I have begun looking a little more honestly at the relationship I’ve had with my ex. The real one, not the one I wanted. The one where his idea of “affection” towards me was turning in his chair and poking me in the shoulder and making fart noises, before going back to ignoring me. The one where getting a deep freezer took 5 years. The one where we bought a house we couldn’t afford because his mother liked it.

    Sometimes it helps to open up our eyes and look honestly at what we’re ACTUALLY being given… not at what we want, but aren’t getting.

  72.  #72Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 5:59 am

    Then again the guy sounds like he is driven. Most masculine energy men I know are driving by their mission in life once they are focused. I am not sure the experience would be different with another man. Maybe the relationship is attention starved in some areas?

  73.  #73Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:00 am

    “driven by their mission”

  74.  #74Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 6:02 am

    FW , Indigo

    Yes, I see what you are both saying.


    I feel like this. Iove him in a sense that tgere is a strong sexual and emotional connection between us but he irritates me and I can’t do anything to stop that.

    Our tastes and lifestyle clash over so many things. I see it but it doesn’t seem to bother him.

    I hate compromising but again it doesn’t bother him.

    I feel like I can’t win.

    He tells me all the time that he is trying to please me and make me happy. It’s hard. Yet, letting go completely terrifies me because I guess I will lose him and have a BIG emotional void again in my life…

    It all feels so dramatic whenever we try and have one of those conversations. It is all so very intense…

    I wish I could say ‘Give me a call in 3 weeks time and we’ll take it from there..’

    It all feels so intense. How can I change this without confrontation or an argument from him?

  75.  #75Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 6:06 am


    Wow, so insightful re: the relationship being starved in other areas!

    Wow… I will think about this?

    Yes, I know I want more.

    More normality
    More intellectual stimulation
    More routine

    Oh I could go on…

    He will NEVER fulfil this and yet is trying so hard. I don’t know what to do because I do genuinely love him. And am trying to love him anyway…

  76.  #76Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Waterfall – ‘Give me a call in 3 weeks time and we’ll take it from there..’about

    Suggests to me that you could possibly be coming primarily from a masculine place. I feel curious about the actual scripts you use during these intense conversations. I also believe it would help you to start scripting, maybe on here, so people can help you take out the things that don’t work, otherwise just write what you want and edit out everything that is not feeling based and is blameful or making him wrong. You want to look at the things that inspire him to dig in his heels.

    I feel a bit concerned about “Our tastes and lifestyle clash over so many things. I see it but it doesn’t seem to bother him”. Suggests to me that there is some focus on fighting rather than negotiating. Also you really have to be honest with yourself about whether this is a match or not. Values around these things are important.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:16 am

    RE More intellectual stimulation – have you considered getting this outside the relationship? Many people in successful relationships will share that they don’t get every need fulfilled in their primary relationship so they get it in some way outside of it. Looking to one human being to fulfill you in every way is really a tall order for them to deliver on. For the most part people are doing the best that they can.

  78.  #78Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 6:27 am


    I totally understand where you are coming from. He’s truly a lovely guy and I have a very strong connection with him. I would not ever wish to make him wrong, although sometimes I feel very, very tested and judgemental.

    I guess if I had a daughter or best friend would I be happy if she dated him. Probably not. Only because he is a bit of a mans man.

    He tells me all the time that he is practical but not romantic. It is just the way he is. I can’t imagine him ever changing, and I guess that’s where I feel sad.

    He is happy for me to do whatever – go out with friends, have my own life etc, in fact he completely encourages it.

    His mum was very unhappy for many years so he sees the importance of me having my independence.

    But it is almost too extreme. I think he would also be happy for us to never live together or get married. Yet would do it to keep me and that feels strange because I know that that would be the only reason he would be doing it.

    Plus in some level something does not add up. I don’t know what…

  79.  #79Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:35 am

    Waterfall I have a growing suspicion that he might be thinking that you are trying to fix him. It seems to me that you might be having a challenge around loving him for who he is. That comment about not being romantic so doesn’t sit well with me because I believe all men are romantic. It takes a woman to bring out their inner romantic.

    Do you know what romance looks like to you and do you give that to yourself in other areas of your life. Changing yourself can be greatly inspiring to others. Maybe if he experiences you being more sensual in your world, enjoying simple things down to your toes, giving to yourself you just never know what might happen.

  80.  #80Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:39 am

    ” I think he would also be happy for us to never live together or get married. Yet would do it to keep me”

    suggests to me that this is a wise man. A man who would likely do anything to make you happy. I do believe this is something that you would want because it says you have power here. He is willing to accept your influence. Maybe he is a bit stuck because you are? Maybe he feels that you are not fully accepting him?

  81.  #81Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:39 am

    ” I think he would also be happy for us to never live together or get married. Yet would do it to keep me”

    suggests to me that this is a wise man. A man who would likely do anything to make you happy. I do believe this is something that you would want because it says you have power here. He is willing to accept your influence. Maybe he is a bit stuck because you are? Maybe he feels that you are not fully accepting him?

  82.  #82Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 6:41 am

    He tells me all the time that he is practical but not romantic.

    Maybe he is a little clueless? Maybe never really had a good mentor in his life? Maybe he is waiting on you to lead?

  83.  #83Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 7:35 am


    I absolutely agree with everything you say, but all that it does is lead me to believe he is being the ‘girl’ in the relationship.

    I don’t want to tell a man how to lead the relationship. It has to come from him. I don’t want to influence it feels masculine and yucky.

    I feel very, very stuck..

    I noticed the other day he took a flippant comment I said and really thought about it and seemed to change his behaviour because of it. He also seemed to misinterpret what I had said – or in fact took it too literally

    I now wonder now if he has picked up on anything else I said??? I’m now beginning to worry.


  84.  #84Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 7:38 am

    The woman is the emotional leader in relationships. She is the mvp on the team when it comes to emotions.

  85.  #85Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Sometimes you need to create a little space in the

    By creating space to breathe, both partners feel an enhancedsense of desire when they come back together.

    Always on your side,
    James Bauer

  86.  #86Shannon on February 8, 2014 at 7:43 am

    Waterfall, it’s supposed to feel intense! Being vulnerable IS intense!

    And Rori teaches us to negotiate for what we want. The problem is that we’re sort of “topping from the bottom” as a feminine woman… and you have to be willing to do that. That’s true feminine power.

    It IS scary to influence them. It IS scary and unfamiliar to say what we want and then let them take it from there… no demanding, nothing. Just… “I feel ignored. I want to feel more closeness and affection in my relationship”… and then…. just leave that in his mind. And ACCEPT WHAT HE DOES.

    If you said something and he took it to hear, THAT IS HIS JOB!!

    It sounds to me like you don’t want to be given to, you don’t want to say what you want…

    That’s NOT being feminine. To be feminine, you must do the opposite! You must state your desire, and you must accept his attempts to fulfill that desire without telling yourself things like, “oh no, I made him do that with what I said, that’s a boy thing!”

    That’s NOT a boy thing. What a boy thing is, is, “We are going to the store, get ready.” Not, “I want affectionate touches,” followed by waiting for his affectionate touches.

    He bosses. You share… ‘this is what I want’ and then let go of the outcome… and he steps up or he doesn’t.

    This is a man who’s stepping up for you HUGELY. So your job is to accept without being upset that “i bossed him by asking for what I want”. That’s your job! His job is to take it to heart, ALWAYS.

  87.  #87Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 7:44 am

    Once we’re in a relationship, we start trying to fix the little things in the relationship that aren’t quite as we’d like them. And that fixing starts with him. We want him to be more romantic. We want him to remember important anniversaries. We want him to magically know what we want.
    I realized I was always hoping to make him better; to mold him into exactly what I wanted.
    But never, for one minute, did I consider looking at myself to see what I could do to enhance the relationship. I never questioned what I was bringing to the couple. I never thought about how he really felt when he was around me.
    So let’s take a few minutes and think about what are your needs, your wants, your dreams and aspirations? Do your needs and wants rely on him? Are you looking to him to make you happy and feel complete?
    It’s so much better to learn about yourself and see where you can fulfill your dreams and aspirations on your own. Then show the man in your life that you are capable, you are independent, and, as much as you want and need him in your life, you don’t want or need him to be your life. You have a life of your own and you want your relationship with him to enhance the happiness you already have in your life.
    The second thing I saw:
    Control, control, control.
    No doubt you’ve heard some man, somewhere say, “She’s too controlling.” The need to control is an insidious little thing that creeps in without you even knowing it.
    You probably think you’re just being helpful when you suggest he changes his tie.
    And it’s probably your way of showing him you love him when you tell him to get up and do some exercise.
    We all think that the little nitpicking we do is innocent, well-intentioned and often times, well-deserved. But what we’re really doing is trying to control just about every move he makes. We want things to go our way. We want him to do things as we see fit. And, heaven knows, we’re the only ones who know how to do it right.
    Take control of your part of the relationship. If there are certain things you want your way, be in charge of doing that particular thing… and don’t throw the fact that you accomplished it despite him in his face. Just accept that this is you and your way, and he is him with his ways.
    And finally, the third thing I picked up on:
    Our way of communicating.
    The difference between men and women is clear.
    Men are direct.
    We like to meander, work around, play with words, hint, and drop clues. We assume the guy will just know what all this means. Unfortunately, they don’t.
    Men don’t talk, they do.
    Men just want to get to the bottom of it, fix it and move on. They normally don’t want to drag it out and spend hours talking about it.

    Alexandra Fox

  88.  #88Lisa on February 8, 2014 at 8:33 am

    I’m still kind of in a weird space about last night’s date…

    Date went well and went from meeting and talking for a couple of hours to him going dancing with me.. ( I was going to go alone, I always know people there) and it was kind of fun… and I won’t give the details… but he kissed me… it was nice…then he ask me to lead ( in the kissing) strange… but the strangest part was when he ask me on the way to my car, if I had a child a home, and I said no, he said can I sleep on your sofa tonight. He lives an hour away… I told him that ( and I forgot to use my feeling messages) too soon for me for that, I just met him. He went on and on about how he isn’t that kind of man.. ( I hear that all the time) and then he said something about well we could just cuddle and I’ll touch you gently….. I didn’t go for it… NO way am I going to let a man I just met, come to my house for the night…

    He also told me during the date that he has a touch of Asperger’s. Ok that is a deal breaker… been there done that….


  89.  #89Kyla on February 8, 2014 at 8:42 am

    Cupcake I did have fun yesterday. I took my kids and one of their friends out of school for lunch and spent an hour giggling with them and later played music I love and danced and sang my heart out while I cleaned my house. I bought a new bedding set and made my room fresh and pretty and I made plans to see a girlfriend I haven’t seen in almost a year and we shared lots of giggles over a bottle of wine last night. It was food for my soul.

  90.  #90Kyla on February 8, 2014 at 8:55 am

    Tonight I have dinner plans with new CD and I feel fun and flirty planning out my outfit. We met and he asked me out on Thursday and my first instinct was to decline and hold tonight for DrWho since its been 2 wks since we last went out and between my plans and his it will be another 2 wks before we’re both available again. I stopped myself, hugged myself and reminded myself if he was thinking the same thing he would have made concrete plans with me. Then I accepted the invitation. I am open to receiving love. I feel stronger inside and more loving towards myself. All the good, loving, tender feeling memories I had with R have resurfaced and before they would bring up powerful grief and heartache and now my heart feels washed clean and I’m claiming them all back as mine. I can blur out his face and let go of the stuff that felt bad and sink deeply into the good stuff and the feelings of love and the immense pleasure of feeling cherished and be open to receiving more of that, from everyone. The little baby in the coffee shopped smiled at me and I felt happy tears.

  91.  #91Turquoise on February 8, 2014 at 8:55 am

    Hi sirens, thank you…. I’m so glad I can come here, be totally open and honest and you take the time to respond. Sweetheart called me after my goodbye text and sincerely listed and apologized for how he acted. He had told his parents, his wife and me all in the same night, and thought it would be easier if I just hated him. He’s really crushed, doesn’t want to lose me, but understands why I feel the way I do. He kept apologizing over and over and said he had our whole life planned out, doesn’t want to be gay, just couldn’t do it anymore. I think as things got more serious the past few weeks, it made the truth need to come out. He told me he’d marry me tomorrow if he was straight and will miss me terribly. I felt bad for him too… I really live a lie for 20 years, know he was causing pain to a lot of people… Has to be an awful place to find yourself. I told him I would be ok, but to move on… I need space. I told him I had a date that night, not to hurt him… But maybe to relieve him a little. He knows he can’t make it right. But I’m not going to torture him with more guilt. I was honest though and told him he was very selfish and he did harm me. I’m not excusing any of that.

    Well… I honestly did not feel like going on my date, kept crying, even on the way there… And I can’t believe how well it turned out. He was wonderful, kind, wanted to hold my coat, serve me food… Made awesome eye contact, it was crazy how much we had in common… And I noticed something very different than with sweetheart. He made me blush. The eye contact was crazy… And his are gorgeous, I had to look away… And blushed. I don’t think that ever happened with sweetheart. He asked if he could kiss me goodnight… And while it was nice, my heart just isn’t in it yet and I can honestly say I didn’t feel much. But the eye contact, that 10 second blushing moment… Made me feel…. desired. He said he wants to see me again soon and texted me “good morning beautiful” today. It feels good to have something positive to think about.

    I realized sweetheart was my best friend, and that’s why I’m so hurt. He called again last night, we both cried and he’s heartbroken to have lost me… But understands I need time to heal and move on. He told me I was his best friend and was really happy I met someone new, but he felt jealous he couldn’t give me that. So maybe someday, we can be friends again… But not now. I need space and to heal. I am crying, even now typing this. I need time.

  92.  #92Turquoise on February 8, 2014 at 9:02 am

    Wow cupcake. That’s really interesting. I never heard of that before.

  93.  #93Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 9:06 am

    Turquoise honestly I am not surprised to learn all this. I had wanted to tell you yesterday to allow yourself to cry even if the date had to see you doing it and have to let him know what happened. Sometime ago I met a gay guy at a seminar who seemed to desperately want to be heterosexual but said “you don’t understand I have no choice”. He seemed to even scorn the very ground he walks on. My heart opened to him at that moment and ever since then I have been more sympathetic and understanding towards these guys. I don’t understand what happens inside of them and being brought up Christian I have tended towards judgementalism towards them. However that guy changed things for me. I just enjoy them when in the presence of these guys as they can be very sensitive and emotionally open.

    I pray one day you find yourself thinking the experience was a blessing as it will have moved you into truly being human and connecting deeply with the right person for you.

    There was a reason why you called him Sweetheart.

  94.  #94Turquoise on February 8, 2014 at 9:06 am

    About the miss Havershim character cupcake. I’m on my phone, think I was reading older comments when I posted mine!

  95.  #95Turquoise on February 8, 2014 at 9:40 am

    I know FW, he thinks I’m so wise… I have all these insightful thoughts and feelings… I told him about the blog, that it really has been awesome for me, and that I call him sweetheart. He cried. I know he didn’t set out to hurt me… That helps. I think I need a Valium or something g though… This crying is starting to feel out of hand.

  96.  #96Femininewoman on February 8, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Turquoise both you and him sound like you are well on your way on your healing path. Reminds me of LilyBelly

  97.  #97Kyla on February 8, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Bear continues to fill my vm and text inbox since Monday without any response from me, he’s last explanation/angle was to share how he’s been cheated on multiple times. I am missing something here. I feel on the brink of an aha moment. I have just realised All the CDs in my rotation have been cheated on.. I am noticing jealousy, trust and intimacy issues with all of them and this makes sense. What’s the message for me??? Cheating is not part of my experience. I am not jealous, I have always assumed trust. Intimacy issues, maybe.. what is attracting me to these men and them to me? There’s something here.

  98.  #98Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 10:33 am


    Turquoise, I just wanted to affirm that if you feel like you were scammed by that guy, you probably were. A, because you can trust your gut. And B, because the way you describe him, he sounds like a con artist. “Con man” is short fir confidence man, meaning this type of person is extremely good at using personality and charm to win people’s confidence. But his motives are not pure and he’s not telling the truth when he does it. He is just very good at making it SOUND like the truth. Which is why you feel so much dissonance when you find out it was all fake. I’m sorry you had to go trough that 🙁 but it’s not your fault. He was a charmer. As long as he’s gone now, you are ok. ((Turquoise))

  99.  #99Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 10:37 am

    Turquoise, I just read more. Was that sweetheart you were talking about? Maybe he wasn’t scamming you. I don’t know. Sometimes people are honestly confused.

    But that date sounds awesome! The eye contact and blushing… Made me smile for you 🙂

  100.  #100Kyla on February 8, 2014 at 10:37 am

    I feel cheated!!!!!
    and now I’m crying again.

  101.  #101Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Ladies, I am feeling very raw today. I had to talk with my mother, and even though it was for only a few seconds, it left me feeling so awful. Just the energy is awful. I hate it. It makes me hate myself. Ugh.

    And I keep thinking of S. STILL. I can’t believe it. I don’t even know why. I don’t have a good reason. I just feel SURE that there is something special and/or significant about him for me. And it may not be what I think. That much is almost certainly true. It could have been the experience. Yes. But that was in the past. Although it feels PRESENT. It feels like he is here RIGHT NOW.

    Sometimes when I lie is bed, it seems as if he is curled up behind me, putting his arm around me, and I can feel his skin. Almost smell him, even. When I think of feeling nice, he pops into my mind. When I think of feeling relaxed, he is there.

    I feel anxious sometimes when I think about how he ended things. But the bigger part of me knows that there is a much vaster, wider, truer truth than just that one thing. Which is not to discount what he said. Or maybe it is?? I don’t want to discount it. I want to accept it. Accept him. Even if that means to accept him walking away.

    I feel this urge to apologize to him. BUT, on examination, I think I would be “giving to get” if I did that. I would be hoping, maybe even expecting, that he would be so impressed, he would come back and start loving me again. I can’t go that route. Especially since I will feel depleted in the end, and I probably won’t get what I want.

    I want to tell him how I understand his actions and believe he might still have feelings for me. But then id be getting inside his head.

    I guess I just feel helpless. And helplessness leads me to want to take ACTION, to feel less helpless.

    But I guess I can do that. And I’m already doing it, and always. I am already taking action on my own life, to move myself in the direction I want to go, that makes me feel happy and awesome and powerful and ROCKSTAR. And it has nothing to do with any guy. It’s just myself and my dreams, and what I want to do.

    And I get to date or not date as much as I want.

    At the end of the day, NOTHING I do or say can change his mind. Nothing. And if I believe he is a special person for me, then he will be. Or else someone else will show up and surprise me. I really can’t be putting all or any of my attention toward him. He doesn’t need it or want it and it’s a waste of my time.

    But I am still going to trust my intuition on this. It’s been right in the past. No reason it wouldn’t be right again. I just wish I has an opportunity to talk to him, that’s all

  102.  #102Liquid Light on February 8, 2014 at 11:11 am

    Lisa, I think most men have a touch of asbergers, hahahaha!!!

    It does sound like the date went well. Good for you for not letting him crash at your place.

    It sounds like you have other reservations though?

  103.  #103Mandy on February 8, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Thanks ladies.

    I think I’m going to do something nice for myself today. I deserve it…

  104.  #104daria on February 8, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    wow ! what a clear post and i feel glad to see talk about how toads and semi-attractive men are helpful

  105.  #105Dominique on February 8, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Cupcake – 42 – This may sound cliché, yet there is so much truth to them which is why they arise in the first place – when one door closes, another opens.

    And you may not see this now, yet you will – there is a good reason why this job fell through, and inevitably when this happens, something better is around the corner.

    I feel badly for your confusion and fear, yet I also feel sure this will all sort itself out and beautifully.

    Love to you.


  106.  #106Dominique on February 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    Cupcake – 50 – Fascinating. 🙂


  107.  #107Dominique on February 8, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Waterfall – 60 – Instead of telling him what you want, how about really appreciating what he DOES do for you. Melt energetically and physically, and tell him how good what he did or said feels. This may very well encourage more of this.

    Not feeling at ease or relaxed around him could be an indication that he’s nor right for you, or it could simply be your insecurities. You awareness around this is the key to changing it in you and being kind and gentle with yourself throughout the process.

    Sending you love.


  108.  #108Liquid Light on February 8, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    Cupcake, I’m so sorry about the job. Hang in there, girl, try to treat yourself with extra gentleness and TLC this weekend.


  109.  #109Millie on February 8, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    FW-5 I love this too!!

    I had an “aha” moment the other day…..
    In regards to “Mechanic” if you ladies remember him.
    (Brief recap: I was interested, but wasn’t sure if he was. He seemed interested in sex and told me he wasn’t looking for a relationship.) My “aha” moment came when I was driving to a friend’s house last night and he came to mind. I thought about some exchanges we’d had, he had bought me a drink when we were all out with friends and I told him I already had one, cuz I did!! Another eve he wanted to walk out with me but my car was parked through the other exit so I didn’t follow him. Those are just two small examples, but I realized that when he did make masculine gestures towards me I turned him away. I didn’t want him to know how I much I liked him. I was afraid of accepting his gestures, then he’d “think he had me.” I was playing games. Then on the other hand, I would try to make something happen when nothing was happening. How he has felt through all of this, I do not know, but I my “aha” moment is….
    With this type of man….a player….I didn’t want to feel rejected, so I hid my feelings. I didn’t want him to know how much I liked him. I too, hid behind sex and the extreme sexual flirting. I feel safer expressing sexual desire with someone like that than being emotionally vulnerable. I haven’t been being the real me. How I really felt….was “I like you more than a friend. You inspire me and I love being with you. I feel sexy when I’m with you…but I also feel insecure, I also feel not good enough….”

  110.  #110cupcake on February 8, 2014 at 2:29 pm



    I wish I could think of something to say.

    Why do you feel cheated?

  111.  #111April Rose on February 8, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    I was wondering about you. I feel happy to hear you have a counselling session booked. I hope it feels uplifting for you.

  112.  #112Lisa on February 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    @Liquid Light yes, I’ve had that same feeling myself that all men have a touch of Asperger’s…( and I have a good theory on that- but not for here) but this guy is a counselor and I’m pretty sure he was saying he was tested… and was unable to deal with anything social as a child… However since I’ve had and continue to have to deal with my ex who has Aperger’s and all the emotional abuse and narcissism I can’t do it again…. I just can’t….

    Yeah I do have other reservations…but they are minute in comparison…

    Oh dear isn’t even an option to let a man crash at my house… goodness..


    I market my booty ( as Dr. Pat says) every weekend… I don’t go out looking for men, but I do go out where I’ll be around them… I think I need a break… I’m tired…

    awesome news that I’m getting caught up!! WHOOHooo! It feels amazing.. and have gotten a second wind on my clothing line.. and have been sewing on that…


  113.  #113Shannon on February 8, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    This is a discussion that I had today with someone else, and I thought I’d mention it here. Perhaps just a little reminder.

    We’re never going to find that person who JUST KNOWS how to make us happy. Men need prompting and direction. If you tell a good, masculine man, “I want cookies when I’m feeling traumatized”, he’s going to bury you in cookies if something bad happens. That’s what he’s supposed to do… and it’s what you are supposed to do…

    If you say, “I love it when a man rubs my feet while we watch movies” while you’re dating, it’s reasonable to expect him to give you foot rubs during movies on the sofa. While you might get the one guy in a million who’ll always automatically give foot rubs during movies, you can be certain that there will be another area where he fails to automatically know how to please you.

    There isn’t something WRONG with a guy who can’t read your mind and know what you want without you telling him. It’s perfectly normal and natural, in fact.

    So that’s why Rori teaches us what she does… how to tell him, without giving him commands. “Give me cookies when I am having an especially hard time” isn’t the same thing as, “I really feel like some cookies right now. There are none in the house, though.”

    Now, the lightbulb can go off in his head and he can be like… “Oh, cookies. I can SO do cookies!” and maybe he’ll run and get you some. Now that is what a man’s supposed to do. He’s supposed to pick up on what you want WHEN YOU SAY IT, not when you think it and expect it without ever telling him.

  114.  #114nermo on February 8, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Hi Sirens..
    My CD track for today was fuzzy. My date, the one i have been seeing for over two months now, that i actually like a lot (and has been really good to me) couldn’t see him, he had work. So i took myself out, i dressed up and drove to the city, purposeless. I went to a coffee shop, called a guy friend to join me, he came and two other guys also joined. I made eye contact with them, tried to feel opnen, i was feeling focused but a little sad..i didn’t know from where this sadness was coming from. But i Kept focused, making eye contact with the guys sitting around the table. Then a girl friend called me in, to join her to a bar. I went to the bar, we were all girls there, 5 girls..i felt awkward and at unease. I felt fake and shattered, and I wanted so much that my date would call me, that he would come and see me. The girls vibe was making me feel uncomfortable, and i was silent, and making up conversations..i dont like me when i am like that. The same guys who were with me in the coffee shop, joined us later at the bar..i felt more i left and went back home.

    CD requires a lot of effort, it is not easy..i know that Rori says that it is a technique that evolves and we learn by time..but i feel very susceptible to the people around me, especially women, their vibe is contagious and i get affected..Now what i am feeling is my urge to share with my date this feeling of sadness (this sadness is not caused by him but it is in me right now). He didn’t call me, so i cannot share it now..i feel it and i wonder maybe if i stayed home i wouldn’t have felt this..

    I want him to feel and this this side of me, when i feel melancholic for no specific reason, and i want to talk to him about this feeling..and i want him to know that when he is around, this feeling is put to sleep. Instead, i internalize this feeling most of the time..

    Its after midnight in my city now, but i really like this blog because at least i can feel heard and i can share safely.
    Love to yo all

  115.  #115Kyla on February 8, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Cupcake, thank you. I feel cheated and betrayed in general. I can see examples now right back to childhood where what was mine or promised to me was taken away or withheld on a whim and I can see how I do it to myself by putting aside my needs for others. The parental voices in my head say I’m selfish, not good enough and don’t deserve. My little girl is sitting in a dark room confused and bawling.. Its not fair, I did everything I was told to do, I was a good girl, they promised, why does everyone else get to have nice things, why am I always being punished. I feel churning rage, guilt and grief. I’ve been pouring love onto this and hugging me all day and I feel ripped open. I feel ashamed.

    And new guy is making a 2 hour drive to take me for dinner and all I want to do is cry.

  116.  #116April Rose on February 8, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    Wow. I feel inspired by your willingness to be immersed in the soup of feelings.
    I feel your courage.

  117.  #117Waterfall on February 8, 2014 at 6:13 pm


    Apologies, I have not read your full story. Has Bear cheated on you?

    What struck me about your story was that you were saying that you wondered what the message was, that you have always assumed trust.

    I think this is a beautiful thing. I am always cynical about men, and I find it hard to trust at all.

    I would love to know more of your story.

  118.  #118Emerson on February 8, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Is there any way to turn things around from being in friend zone with exoticCD where I’ve been leaning forward because I thought our chances of romance were zero?
    Now I’m reconsidering him as a romantic interest, he is “stepping up” awkwardly and I’m trying to be open and nonjudgmental. The problem is that he is seeming to be skipping the dating and courting part altogether. WTF?!
    We’ve only gone on a couple of proper dates…I need more relaxing time and low pressure dates before even thinking about getting physical.

  119.  #119Helena Hart on February 8, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    Nermo – 114 – I think it’s amazing that you got dressed up and took yourself out!! I know it’s not always motivating when you’re thinking about a guy and just wishing he would call.

    Love, Helena

  120.  #120Emerson on February 8, 2014 at 8:26 pm

    In other news I had amazing friends! And an amazing job!!!

  121.  #121cupcake on February 8, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    Amber and Andrea — the Siren “A” team–

    What are you two up to? I hope out on hot dates!

    (I am in watching Sherlock, episode 3 on my computer. And I have to say he makes for a very satisfying Saturday night.)

    And Sophie, what about you?

  122.  #122Turquoise on February 8, 2014 at 9:26 pm

    I stopped crying this afternoon!!! I feel so much better!

  123.  #123Emerson on February 8, 2014 at 10:20 pm

    Any advice for me Dominique ? Sirens?

  124.  #124Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    Millie – I liked your processing in 109

    Shannon, I liked your 113 also. Really good thoughts! That, for me, is definitely the hardest part – saying to someone what I want without having an expectation. Also, for me, what’s true is that I often don’t say it because I have the automatic assumption/belief that if I say it out loud, it will not be given to me. This seems more often that not to be the case. If I don’t say it out loud, I will have no expectation that I will receive what I want, but there is about a 50-50 chance that I’ll get it. So I’ll usually opt to stay quiet. Only because when I don’t, the results are often worse than if I did. See? It’s actually kind of logical. Even thought logic says you would have a better chance of receiving what you want by saying something about it. I don’t know, but I can only suspect that this has something to do with my mother. Because with her, telling her my desires out loud is simply an opportunity for her to either tell me I don’t have them, I shouldn’t have them, or I can’t have what I want. Do I’ve just learned to suppress my desires, and/or get used to didappointment.

    It’s only recently that I’ve just begun to allow myself to FEEL desire and not shoot myself down internally. I guess once I get comfortable with accepting them, then I will be able to speak about them without layers of shame, guilt, self-doubt, and an expectation of the desire not being fulfilled. Because that is, of course, a self-fulfilling prophecy…

  125.  #125Indigo on February 8, 2014 at 10:47 pm


    I had a friend who turned into a romantic interest, and he also kind of tried to skip the dating and courting process and go straight to the “hanging out” part – he was the loveliest, sweetest guy in the world, but I felt angry.

    I did a brief, simple script – and I had to repeat it to him – basically, I said “It would feel so great to go on a proper date… you know, you call me and find out when I can make it, I get dressed up, you pick me up and pay for dinner…”

    I didn’t say it in a hurt or expecting way, just in an assuming he wanted to please me and telling him how to do it, soft way (much like what Shannon said in #113).

    And well, he got the hint, and did exactly that. A good man wants to please you.

  126.  #126Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 10:51 pm

    Hey, Emerson! : )

    Ok, I am reading between the lines a little bit, so tell me if I have this right or I’m off. You are feeling like friends with exoticCD. You’ve known each other for a while. And you’ve had a few “proper dates,” but not many. Now, when you say “stepping up,” do you mean he wants sex? I.e. to take it to the physical level? Because I don’t necessarily believe that equates to “stepping up.” Seems to me, the physical part should FOLLOW the stepping up. That is, the stepping up would entail the dates and spending time together that would make you feel comfortable. Of he’s not giving you those things, then you don’t have to sleep with him. Unless you want to take it from “friend zone” to FWB. Because that’s the only thing that would change.

    All you’d have to do, really, is tell him how you feel. I thought you worded it quite nicely. You aren’t comfortable with a physical relationship unless you feel really clear about what he wants, and you’re seeing him take you on dates, etc. (my wording isn’t very good. You get the idea)

    Does that make sense?

  127.  #127Andrea on February 8, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    Ha Ha Cupcake!! : ) oooooohhhh it feels so good to be missed!
    Well, I’ll tell you what. I’m doing something extremely, exceptionally, crazily sireny tonight!

    I’m home in plaid pajama pants that I’ve been in all day long because I’ve been writing. I have always Always wanted to compete in a poetry slam. So I finally bit the bullet, told my fears to suck it, and signed up for one on. I’ll be competing on Thursday night.

    So I’ve been working, reworking, rewriting, chopping, jumping up and down, getting all emotionally wound up about words; my words, my heart on my sleeve words that I’ll be sharing in front of a bar room full of people and other poets.

    I’m scared and excited and alive and full of electric anticipation.

    My date from last weekend did text me today, He said, “Hey Red, did you ever go shopping for real dance shoes yet?” : )
    I said, “Leggs!!! It feels so wonderful to hear from you, and no shoes yet.”

    heheheh.. and that was all.

    I’ve been so wrapped up in poetry. So I just peeked on here and it’s well after midnight. I won’t have time to get caught up with everyone but oh how I love this sanctuary. Good night everyone. Wish me luck for Thursday.

  128.  #128Tereana on February 8, 2014 at 11:41 pm

    Wow, you know, I’ve not had the experience very much of meeting guys only to find out they are unavailable in the “taken” sense. Emotionally, sure. But they were at least *physically* available. Lol.

    But now it seems to have become a major theme of my life or at least this evening. Seems every guy I saw today who I thought was remotely attractive already had a partner.

    I feel grateful this is new-ish thing, and sort of rare in my life. But it feels strange. I can’t fault the guy, obviously, nor be mad. It’s just a weird sort of “oh.” Ok. So now the conversation is decidedly less interesting to me. Lol

    Maybe it’s partly age. Or change in location. Or both.

    And to be fair, it’s not all guys. For example, when I heard from my former CD last week. He was clearly single, or at least indicating as much. And he was curious about my “dating status.” So it’s not like ALL guys. For sure.

    It just makes me say to myself, hey, they’re not all taken. Just these ones here. And if they have girlfriends then there must be other great guys out there who want one.


  129.  #129Akasha on February 9, 2014 at 2:48 am

    Hello Sirens… So ive been cding myself and leaning back etc. My ex has been calling everyday. But he has been working every day till past midnight so he hasnt really made an effort to see me. Also, he keeps saying he misses me etc. So my question is this… We work together however never see each other. We will see each other on friday because he will be coming into the office to give his resignation. So… Now i got an invitation to a pop up dinner for valentines day for singles. İ really think i should go and rsvped. So i dont just sit around and wait for my ex. Gotta move on or at least try to. So my question is this, if on Friday he asks what my plans are do i tell him? Or do i just ask him what his plans are? İm confused. Also for those that dont know, in oyr country i cant really just date around. Thanks!!!

  130.  #130Cris on February 9, 2014 at 3:25 am

    @Akasha, I don’t think you have to ask. Just prepare a script in case he asks, but I am not very good at it…maybe another lady in the group will be able to help.

  131.  #131Waterfall on February 9, 2014 at 3:55 am


    So many interesting posts. Really inspiring.

    Andrea: I adore reading your posts! You should write your own blog. You write so well!

    Turquoise: I’ve been following your story and I wish you the best. I have been in love with gay men before. In my experience it made me very guarded and jaded.

    So, well I was thinking. I always seem to get stuck in a rut when I am left to mg own devices. And this terrifies me.

    I have a completely free weekend, all to myself, absolutely no plans. Yet I can never motivate myself to to anything. I end up just sitting around in my pyjamas slobbing about all day.

    I have so much stuff that I dream of doing. But that is all I seem to do. Dream.

    The question is how do I motivate myself when no-one else is around?


    Maybe I see it as dating myself??!

    Doing nice things for myself like organising my books, washing my car, baking a cake…

    Oooo the list is endless…

    Going for a run, spending vouchers, shopping for groceries…

    Ooooh sirens I so need help with this???!

    Why am I like this???

    Maybe when I was younger I was allowed to sit around all day with no plan of action ??!!

    Lol, I don’t know…

    Other people seem to get things done. Why can’t I??

    Also I only have me to look after so what is my excuse???

  132.  #132LoveAlways on February 9, 2014 at 5:53 am

    Great Post Rori!

    Looking forward to the teleclass tomorrow!

    As far as circular dating and relationships, I’m glad to say that I get it now. I’m doing so much better at LOVE 101! My “anything will do” stage in life is over (it was a long lasting time period as I had an “aha moment” and saw a common theme reaching back so far I triggered myself!). I am all about me (it’s not easy, but I’m there), and I feel more comfortable with a better quality man – meaning there are no immediate red flags on the first few dates, they are the good guys (less and less clueless guys, and certainly no toxic men get my yes for dates). I’ve learned to say NO to “let’s be friends.” I don’t have time for friends, I’m about business here!

    And yes, going on dates at this point is more like gathering information to CHOOSE rather than trying to accomplish something. I no longer make assumptions about relationship or men. If he keeps calling and asking me out, he stays in my awareness. If I don’t hear from him or see him, he is not even on my mind – how beautiful a change from the pining I used to put myself through over guys who showed an interest. World of men – it’s your turn to pine over me!!

    I love that you describe this as homestudy, and CDing, even for a few seconds, is work in the field!

    These are some of the points Rori made that so moved me:

    “Forever is just a bunch of moments strung together. One after the other. And the only way to experience that is to start treasuring the experiencing of MOMENTS. Each one, one at a time. [THIS PRACTICE HAS MADE LIVING LIFE SO BEAUTIFUL . . . LIKE THE ARTIST’S WALK!]

    So, if you have an experience with a man – even a 10 second encounter – I want you to HONOR that. I want you to investigate what went on during those 10 seconds – and be curious about what happened, about the man, and about you. The way to break the old patterns of behavior is to try new ones. [THIS IS WHY I WALK WITH MY JOURNAL SO I CAN RECORD THESE EXPERIENCES!]


    You’ve opened up a place where you can choose between behaviors, where there may never have been a choice before. [THIS IS MY POWER NOW, I AM FREE, NO LONGER BOUND BY MY OLD HANGS UPS]

    Yes, you may be attracted to “bad boys,” you might go down some wrong roads, you may get stuck, you may go so far into great new things you scare yourself silly – but you can choose to not feel helpless before all that and just keep going to Circular Dating School. [THIS IS HARD, BUT TRUE. I REGROUP AND GET BACK OUT THERE. IT HAS TAUGHT ME NOT TO EVER STOP CDING!!! AND I REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CDING, NOT JUST GOING OUT ON DATES WITH MEN.]

    It’s a home study course, and you are the teacher, the manager and the student. Love is your field of interest, and men are in the field. [ONCE I GOT THE WHOLE PROGRAM I STARTED STUDYING WEEKLY!! LOVING IT.]

    Men are all in the laboratory out there, And because they’re participating with you in your home study course – they are both the elements of it, the experiment of it, the study subjects of it and your teachers of it, your free therapists of it, your providers of experience of it, your study partners of it, your messengers of it, your school friends of it, your lovers of it. They’re the backdrop and the action and the population of your “story” every moment of every day. [THIS PART GETS A LITTLE STICKY SOMETIMES, BUT I END EACH EXPERIENCE WITH A REASSURANCE TO MYSELF THAT I COME FIRST, THAT IT IS ALL ABOUT ME, AND I OFTEN SAY MY MANTRA TO REMIND ME AND BRING ME BACK TO FOCUS . . . I’m in love with love,
    I’m in love with me

  133.  #133April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 5:53 am

    I feel spaced out and tired and angry.

    I love the man I live with. And loving him doesn’t make me happy.

  134.  #134Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 5:56 am

    Tereana, I forgot the post number, but what I hear about the “unavailable” guys is this….

    “I’m finding lately that I’m very attracted to men who are capable of and wanting commitment!”

    That’s fantastic! Now it’s only a question of finding the one that wants and is capable of commitment, who is ready and waiting for one… 🙂

  135.  #135April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 5:59 am

    Lately I’ve been getting excited about me, about my ventures and my purpose.

    The thought of sharing any of it with him makes me angry.
    I don’t know if it’s me or him.

    I hold a feeling in my heart of a masculine man cheering me on in my vision. Not feeling jealous or precious about his own.

    I don’t want to feel like I’m in a shining star competition.

    Help. I can’t stop judging/seeing him as wanting to be the adored flower.

  136.  #136Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 6:01 am

    April, can you tell us what conversations you’ve had with him about this? It would help to know what he says when you discuss this with him.

  137.  #137LoveAlways on February 9, 2014 at 6:03 am

    Akasha # 129

    If he asks what are you doing:

    “Valentine’s day makes me feel so happy and bubbly, I have plans already from 6 to 8:30.”

    If he presses where you are going:

    “I’m going to a singles event at (address).”

    If he asks you to go out with him:

    “I would feel wonderful to go out with you, but I have plans already from 6:00 to 8:30. I’m available at 8:45.”

  138.  #138LoveAlways on February 9, 2014 at 6:04 am


    While I feel good about my script writing skills 😀 I’m not the best at scripting, but this is at least a good start for you. Work on your own words and keep posting them so some of the better script writing sirens can help you!

  139.  #139LoveAlways on February 9, 2014 at 6:08 am

    April Rose

    I don’t want to interrupt your processing and rifting here (I’m reading some beautiful stuff you are writing here about your feelings), I just want to give you a big warm embracing love confirming siren (((((((HUG))))))))

  140.  #140LoveAlways on February 9, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Andrea #127

    Good Luck!!!! Enjoy your poetry writing process!

  141.  #141Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 6:15 am

    Odd, I missed Akasha’s post.

    Akasha, I would simply say that you are available at the time you are available… and that you don’t want to talk about it if he tries to press. If he presses after you say you don’t want to talk about it, I’d say, “I feel pressured. I don’t want to talk about this.” Then go straight into, “I feel angry. I don’t want to talk about this.”

    You do NOT owe any man an explanation. That’s your practice here, IF he even asks.

    Frankly, I think you’re hoping for something that isn’t going to happen. As I told you, he’s getting his “you fix” from calling every day. He doesn’t need to date you to see you, because he’s getting all the ego strokes he wants just by calling you and by you being so completely caught up in thinking about him.

    Everything he wants, he already has. I think it’s at best unlikely that he’ll ask you out. He has no need, and in this way, he gets everything without giving anything.

    If he asks you out, he has to get ready, take you out, he can’t hang up when he gets bored, he has to pay out money… bleh. Why do that when he can just call you, get his fix, and move on?

    You can script for it, and it’s a good idea to do so. But this sounds completely like an imaginary relationship. You are imagining that he still wants anything to do with you… while he’s moving on and has no interest at all in anything to do with anyone but himself.

    And by the way, I’m saying this because I’ve been kind of in the same place a number of times… imagining what I would do if my ex actually asked me to come back… (even done it with this one), or imagining other incidents of arriving at the point of getting to either accept him asking me back or deny him getting me back…

    It rarely happens, and it isn’t going to happen when he’s getting all the interaction he needs by telephone. Nothing is motivating him to move on out towards dating you. You are eager for his calls, you answer his calls, and you cling to him until he lets you go on his own.

    This is why it’s SO important to start dropping the calls in a way that leaves him wanting more. You have to deprive yourself of your phone time with him, if you ever want to motivate him beyond these telephone calls. That takes tremendous courage and inner fortitude!

    But you have it. You can do it. Keep your eye on the prize–that’s you, in a loving relationship with a man who just ADORES YOU–and off of the short-term gratification of being on the phone with him.

  142.  #142April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 6:43 am


    Your question woke me up and made me feel embarassed.
    I haven’t discussed it with him.

    What’s coming up in me feels so precious.

    I don’t want him to misunderstand it/ flatten it out with his own interpretation, judge it or otherwise take the juice out of it in any way. I would rather keep it secret.

    This is highlighting my frustration at our connection, different communication styles and values.

    I don’t trust him with my precious emerging self.

    Oh how I dream of a strong and confident man who is secure in himself and therefore able to stand strong beneath me as I start to unfurl my wings….

  143.  #143April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 6:45 am

    Your big warm hug feels… warm. And Big! Giggle.
    Thank you 🙂

  144.  #144Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 7:26 am

    Good morning sirens I’m going to enjoy my day off & go out there and be sireny !!!

  145.  #145Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 7:38 am

    Thanks tereana and indigo!
    I feel so much better reading your posts.
    I realized last night that I feel pressured by him for sex and and it feels bad.
    He told me he was frustrated because I flirt with him back when he flirts with me but ten when it comes to sex I withhold. Well duh he’s moving too fast.
    I mentioned not having many dates but it seems to him that we have (we have not). He is Indian so I don’t know it this is cultural?
    Tereana what do you think? I’ve noticed Indian men move really fast sexually.

  146.  #146Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 7:47 am

    Indigo I feel heard and understood after reading your post and it feels good! Thank u!
    Tereana yes it’s true he is really not stepping up perse’….

    He’s also trying to do last minute plans so I think I need to be very specific.
    I do like him and he is a decent man with a decent job and he is funny.
    We have a lot of interests in common.
    So we shall see.

  147.  #147Waterfall on February 9, 2014 at 8:07 am


    Sorry just catching up on your story as have a little more time.

    Did you ever date ExoticCD? What sort of relationship did you have with him?

    Have you tried letting him know that you are open to being courted and dated by him? What scripts are you using?

  148.  #148Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 8:50 am

    April, how do you feel about The Work? If you feel okay about it, I’d like to bring up a few things that are somewhat related with it. If you feel uncomfortable with it, then I’d want you to tell me how raw you feel about the relationship aspect of this before I offer my thoughts.

  149.  #149Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 8:56 am

    I like what you said Shannon in 113.

    By the way sirens I had a “recurring” CD contact me last night via text wanting to “meet up” …last minute plans. I told him I was busy and I don’t want to have last minute plans for a date. He said no problem. I felt bored with his request an he has essentially droppe the ball more than once when he’s asked me out ahead if time for a certain day, but then never confirms. I feel so bored with that.

  150.  #150Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 9:04 am

    Emerson, a couple of thoughts come to mind.

    Number one, you don’t owe any man an explanation. Trying to explain yourself to him won’t work, it just takes both of you out of your hearts.

    So, maybe something as simple as,

    “I want to feel like I’m being courted. It feels far too early in the courtship process for sex, because sex feels so incredibly intimate. Sexual jokes and comments feel less intimate. I don’t feel courted, I feel pressured to do something when it feels too early. I feel uncomfortable.”

    This expresses the FEELING difference between sexual jokes and sex itself. It also expresses that you want something… courtship… that is missing.

    THAT is where he has the chance to step up. He has a chance now to court you… or not to.

  151.  #151Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:06 am

    Hi! We had 2 real dates. I really liked him and we had fun, i was attracted to him etc.
    After that he was always busy with other things working on his hobbies and spending time with a girl who enjoys the same hobby (sailing)….so i figured he wasnt interested so i moved on. I asked him about the girl “I’m just curious”… as he was very open about her, he swore up and down that they are strictly friends. It still felt annoying to me that he would spend so much time with her, if he was really into me he would be with me, right?!?!

    he stayed in touch now and then so i told him i feel open to be friends, but due to his lack of availability or effort i sort of crossed him off the romantic list. Other than that we’ve met up casually a couple of times at his house and it always ends up as a make out session in his room but no sex.

    He recently reached out a few times to stay in touch and ended up doing me a huge favor (I didn’t ask, he volunteered).
    I don’t feel like I owe him but I suppose he was trying to reconnect.
    I don’t think he has a lot of “game”…
    He thinks out first couple dates is enough and he now wants to move to the physical stage. I told him no we haven’t spent much time together. So we shall see.

  152.  #152Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:09 am

    Thanks Shannon that really helps.

    The favor he did for me is he helped me find a place to live and put in a good word for me with the landlords so I am very thankful.

    I never asked him to do this but he just volunteered it out of the blue.

  153.  #153Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Hmm I suppose that I get caught up in the sexual flirting and I should not unless it’s really on the table. Which for now, it’s not.

  154.  #154Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:23 am

    Thanks sirens for your feedback, I don’t want to run away from this situation with exoticCD, I see it as a potential learning experience and is really pushing me out of my comfort zone.

  155.  #155Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:28 am

    128 Tereana I have experienced the same thing. Sometimes I think men who are in relationships are “nicer”, their physical need are being met so they are more relaxed and not as intense as men who have not had sex in a long while. What do you think sirens?

    I do feel like there are a lot of good men out there and I have not given up yet. It’s just harder than I expected to find one that is not caught up in the instant gratification zone. My boyfriends in my 20’s took me on dates and courted me! I don’t know what’s up.

  156.  #156Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Oh dear, Emerson.

    Reading 150, I really want to be super blunt with you. I’ll ask you first how open you feel to that?

  157.  #157April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 10:50 am


    I feel curious. Any insight you can offer will stimulate me to reflect on this. It’s something I think I’m too close to see!

  158.  #158April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 10:55 am

    I think I have a belief that it is wise not to share all things with all people. I am selective about who I trust.

    Not wanting to tell my partner my innermost dreams and plans …. well…. that says to me that my picker was off again.

  159.  #159Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Okay. Remember this… when you go to the grocery store, you purchase the things you want. The rest stays there. You don’t buy the whole store, only what you need and what serves you… same thing here. Take what serves you, and leave the rest, lol.

    First, I felt very “ah ha!” when you said that you’ve gone to his house a few times.

    Then again when you said, “we’ve made out a few times [at his home]” after you said you felt fine with “a friendship”.

    Now, this sounds to me like you set this up PERFECTLY as a “friends with benefits” concept. You’ve told him you just want to be friends, but then you’re following that up by snogging with him. So from a man’s standpoint, that’s why he’s like… we’re friends… we’re snogging… we’re friends with benefits, so I want mah benefits!!

    I tell my daughter this, and despite the fact that it’s become a social faux pas to be honest about this… don’t go to a man’s house until you’re ready to have sex with him. Just don’t.

    And going to his home to begin with is very “leaning forward”. He’s not picking you up and taking you on a date and then getting snogged… you’re popping into his home and snogging him… without any expectation that you be treated like a DATE.

    So if you want to redress this, then I would simply say, “I don’t feel comfortable being friends with you. I want more, or to just move on with my life.”

    And then I would decline any and all invitations to his house. I would also remind myself that he is NOT acting like he’s courting you, and thus HE DOES NOT DESERVE TO GET SNOGGED. He hasn’t earned you, or treated you as if you are anything more than a booty call that, for some frustrating reason, isn’t booty calling properly.

    I don’t think that you need to have the same boundaries that I do. But I do feel that some boundaries are universal because of the way that men THINK.

    When you go to his house, he THINKS he’s “in like flynn”… and a certain outcome is a reasonable expectation on his part. So you’re just setting YOURSELF up to have this expectation pressured upon yourself. You have to fight this perception because that IS THE PERCEPTION THAT MOST MEN HAVE. Without regard to your personal boundaries.

    So that’s my viewpoint. Take what makes sense, leave the rest. Goes without saying, but I just want you to know I won’t feel offended if you don’t agree. 🙂

  160.  #160Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Oh dear, that was for Emerson, I got way ahead of myself, lmao. I’m so sorry, I hope I don’t offend Emerson with that. 🙁

    April… let me make another post for you. 🙂

  161.  #161Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 11:09 am

    Okay, April, so it sounds like a few possibilities to me. As I mentioned to Emerson (cause I got confused, I’m so sorry to you both)… take what works for you, and leave the rest. 🙂

    It sounds to me like you’re not appreciating your OWN desire to be the center of attention. You desire to be supported… and you project that desire onto HIM, because then you can deflect your bad feeling onto him.

    It’s SO common for us women to be told that when we want to be the center of attention, when we want accolades and support… we are selfish and bad and drama queens. Attention wh*** is another disgusted moniker that we’re called.

    Maybe it’s easier to look at HIS desire for validation and scoff. So that way, you can ignore you OWN desire for support and validation. Look at him, he’s so selfish. He’s ignoring my need for validation…

    But of course he’s ignoring it, he doesn’t even know you have it!!!

    So… who’s ignoring it?? Who’s REALLY ignoring it??

    Who’s hiding her light? Who’s looking down on you for having goals, dreams, and a desire for validation? Is it him? Of course not… he is blissfully going about his daily life, completely clueless.

    And you refuse to tell him. “This is my special hidden secret that you may not know about–but you better validate me about it, anyway!!”

    The really scary part of this is that it makes sense to us when we do things like this, lol! I do it all the time, sadly.

    So maybe the person who needs to validate you, and maybe the person you think is somehow wrong for wanting to be the center of everything… is you…

    Anyway. Just the things I thought of as I read your posts. Please forgive me if I have overstepped myself!!

  162.  #162Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 11:19 am

    And by the way, this is why I think the Work would help you with this issue. You name yourself “April Rose” and then you say, in a scoffing tone of typing, that he wants to be the “adored flower”.

    The Work teaches us that when we’re judging someone else, it’s because we’re judging ourselves for the same thing.

    So if we look at your issue from the standpoint of The Work… you want to be the Adored Flower… you want a powerful support under you as you move forward…

    Yet you feel unsupported. YOU are your support. So you are judging yourself both for wanting to be an adored flower and for not supporting yourself.

    You’re looking for support and power “under” or outside of yourself. You are the one. It’s always you, and it’s always only you. If you don’t support YOU, he won’t support you (because even if he did, you’d ignore it!). If you think you’re supposed to be an adored flower and that THIS IS BAD, you’ll see him wanting to be the adored flower and judge him for it (cause it’s easier to judge “out there” than “in here”).

    Just my observations.

    It’s impossible to use feeling messages here, because he isn’t remotely any part of this situation! It’s all you!

    It’s always all you. 🙂

    *HUGS* for you, Adored Rose!

  163.  #163Veronica on February 9, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Emerson – 60 – I didn’t get to use my feeling messages on him since I felt so confused about was going on at the time. If I do see him again, then I’ll see how saying the feeling messages affect me since now I’m curious when you said that it helped you soften your reaction.

  164.  #164Indigo on February 9, 2014 at 11:40 am

    You know, April Rose, there is a lot of wisdom in what Shannon says.

    And I apologise if anything that I’m about to say is projecting and not relevant to your situation, yet…

    When I was with D, I remember many, many nights, days, times, when I felt so hurt and neglected… he was absorbed with his computer, had shut (or locked) me out, or was just plain tantrumming and moody. I was so angry with him for making me feel this way. I was fully immersed in my hurt, devastated feelings, to the point that I couldn’t move.

    It was only recently, once I’d had months of distance from him, that I saw that it was not his behavior per se which was hurting me… it was the way I felt about MYSELF when he behaved that way. It was the negative self-perceptions that crept in, and which I, unawares, allowed to have almost free reign and feedback into each other until I was making MYSELF feel absolutely down in the pits awful, to the point that it paralysed me.

    It apparently never occurred to me that – yes, he is behaving like this, and I have no control over him – but I have control over what I do now, what I choose to accept in my life, and most of all, how I choose to feel about *myself* from here on out. I thought it was D who was imprisoning me in this awful feeling place, which is why I felt so helpless to leave or do anything about it. It was ME who was imprisoning me.

    When he stomped off in a mood, what was to stop me getting in my car and going to my mom’s house and climbing into a soft bed with a mug of hot chocolate? And most of all, what was to stop myself thinking of myself as the goddess, fully worthy of wonderful things and wonderful treatment, that I know in my heart of hearts I am?

    I think I realized in that moment, no man has the power to hurt me indefinitely… at a certain point, it’s me hurting me.

    Thank you for letting me write that, Sirens. It was very healing for me.

    Big hugs to you ((April Rose)) xxx

  165.  #165Waterfall on February 9, 2014 at 11:43 am


    So D has just cancelled, well re-arranged on me yet again. And I FEEL sooooo angry about this! Like punch my fist in the air, make an angry face, angry! Argggh!

    I don’t know what to do or how to handle this?

    In a way I knew he may cancel because I knew he may be coming back from his parents house quite late. But I still FEEL devastated. I feel crushed. I feel like he wants to end it with me..

    I don’t know what to think or do??

    I feel so panicked and scared…

  166.  #166Waterfall on February 9, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Wow, being honest about my feelings makes me realise how reliant I am on him. Also I can see all my focus and feelings are towards him..

    My energy is desperate and clingy.. Ew not nice!!

  167.  #167Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Waterfall, this is all inside of you.

    There’s nothing in what happened here that says he wants to abandon you. And that’s what is coming up here.

    Can you go down on your knees and just FEEL this? Can you let yourself fall super deeply into this feeling? Can you just let yourself BE inside this feeling? Even the anger, even the pain?

    This is a normal thing for any person to do… I’ll be here late, can we get together another night?

    Yet it’s clear that your emotions around it are intense. The best thing you can do is to let go of them. Stop resisting them, stop trying to change them. Give yourself the rest of the day, even, to just BE heartbroken, agonized, angry, and to feel abandoned and afraid.

    Bawl. Scream. Writhe.

    See where the journey takes you.

  168.  #168Indigo on February 9, 2014 at 11:54 am


    This is coming up for you for a reason.

    It is showing you where your triggers are inside.

    See if you can welcome it, thank the situation even, for showing up.

    Personally, I stick by my earlier post to you… your energy is all over him. Could it be time to find Waterfall? To find her interests and passions? Her reasons for living?

  169.  #169Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    Wow, Shannon– You’re on a roll, here! I feel inspired by all your posts to everyone here. It feels like you’re in a clear, strong, place. It feels reassuring to read.

    Thanks for having such a lovely voice to chime in with.

  170.  #170Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 12:16 pm


    I, too, feel protective of you with exoticCD.

    The parts of this that make me feel uneasy- You told him you want “proper” dates, and his response is that he’s already ticked those off the list of things to do with you. Basically, that he’s already made the investment he’s willing to make, and has therefore earned the right to further intimacy with you, without extending further effort. Ouch.

    The other thing is this woman he spends lots of time with but swears is just a “friend.” Does she come over to his house too? I’m gonna bet yes.

    Like Shannon, I am hoping that there’s more to the story that you just haven’t written on the blog. Like that he’s initiating all the contact, regularly, wanting to see you all the time and GOING OUT OF HIS WAY somehow to make that happen.

    Asking you to swing by isn’t wanting to see you. Asking you to swing by is like calling Dominos, and as Shannon said, if you are going into his bedroom and snogging with him, for a boy that is basically saying “Yes, please! I want sex with you!”

    If you left a steak on the coffee table and walked out of the room, the dog would be mighty puzzled when you were surprised it lifted that steak off the plate with its mouth and ate it.

    If you are going over to a guy’s house, going into his bedroom for a make-out session, and then not putting out– He is just as puzzled as the dog is when you leave a steak at eye level.

    Perhaps this is not the best analogy. I just always feel bad for dogs that get scolded when people don’t look at things from the dog’s point of view.

    I don’t feel bad for this guy, because in my opinion he’s an idiot if he doesn’t “get” what a lovely, feeling, open woman you are, what a gift you could be in his life in a bigger picture. But a dog doesn’t think about that when there’s a delicious steak sitting on a plate right in front of him. And neither does a guy.

    I want the best for you. And I don’t think he’s offering you that, unless there’s something here you’re not saying.

    My advice would be don’t be available. Don’t initiate AT ALL, let it go silent for a bit and see if he, in your absence, remembers that you said you wanted a “proper” date.”

    Like Shannon, I hope I haven’t offended you.

    Your friend,


  171.  #171Femininewoman on February 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    I do believe that exoticCD smells the sexual energy and feels the desire towards him so he is just biding his time waiting for Emerson to get to the place where you caves in on herself and just puts out. Emerson he knows you like him. Her knows if you were not happy with what he is giving you would have long gone. He knows that you are clinging on to hope so he is taking what he can get. It is a bit of an ego boost. Is my opinion…..

  172.  #172Femininewoman on February 9, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    The question is does a proper date mean he will get what he wants after?”

  173.  #173Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Dominique- #105

    Thank you for your kind words about there being a big-picture reason I didn’t get that job.

    I found a different job for the same company that was just posted which I also applied to.

    To quote another Dickens’ character, Mr. Micawber, “Something will turn up.”

    Keeping in mind, with a wry smile, that even though his optimism was drawn as a comic extreme in the most harrowing circumstances, eventually something DID turn up for him, and he ended up happy and prosperous.

    May it be the same for all of us. 🙂

  174.  #174Femininewoman on February 9, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Waterfall what else do you have going on in your life?

  175.  #175Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Emerson – 123 – How about telling him this, what you are wanting now – “It would feel so good to go out on a proper date with you.”

    If any question or hesitation seems to come up because you have been friends until now then tell him what you said here with a tweak of mine added in –

    “I would feel more comfortable with some relaxing time and low pressure dates before thinking about getting physical.”


    Simply tell him that some relaxing time and some dating would feel so good and leave the physical part for when and if it comes up, and then tell him you would feel better getting to know him more before entering the physical realm of your relationship.

    How does this feel to you Emerson?


  176.  #176Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Tereana – 124 – A little suggestion on letting a man know what you want. I would encourage to let go of – I want – and use instead – It would feel so good OR I would love.

    It’s a small word change, yet it can be huge in how the words are heard and accepted. The former can feel like demands being made, and often this doesn’t go so well. The latter is a clean and simple expression of what feels good to you, and a good man will want to make you feel good.


  177.  #177Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Akasha – 129 – Honesty is usually a good way too go. If he asks you out and you want to go out with him, you can change your plans – IF this is really and truly what you want.


  178.  #178Liquid Light on February 9, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Danced my a** off last night, had fun, felt sexy. All the men there were a lot older than me but it was still fun. I didn’t want to talk to anyone, all I wanted to do was dance so that’s what I did. So fun!!!

  179.  #179Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Waterfall – 131 – Dating yourself is a wonderful way to look at taking care of you. As for getting things done, when you think about all the things which need taking care of, it can feel overwhelming. One task is not such a big deal, but ten things can be, so paralysis can set it. How about aiming for one task a day.


  180.  #180Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    Love Always – 132 – BEAUTIFUL!!!


  181.  #181April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Thank you Shannon and Indigo,
    Your words and your care feel wonderful. I will re-read what you wrote and feel each response in my body.

    I’m wondering how the following fits in with the bigger picture of what I’m discovering with your insights:

    I spent four nights away from him. For those four days and nights I was focussed uninterruptedly on my clarity and my purpose. I felt free and I felt excited and I was in a great groove.

    Now that it’s no longer ‘just me’, I’m experiencing an uneasy sensation. I’m unable to truly relax and immerse myself the same way because he is around.

  182.  #182Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    April Rose – You’ve been doing some huge growing since I’ve known you, blossoming big time, stepping into your core goddess, love self, and what this does is give you tremendous clarity. Have you considered that this what you’re feeling right now? A growing clarity on your situation.


  183.  #183April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Dominique, it feels amazing to read you writing the word that means the most to me in my life at the moment. Clarity. You are spot on.

    The clarity I have discovered from entering ever more deeply into my feminine energy self, feels phenomenal. And I feel the enormous gratitude and pleasure that come with it.

    The struggle I am entering into presently is one of engaging my masculine energy. Which I do without any problems when WM is not around!

  184.  #184April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    I am stating here my intention to grow a fabulous career from seed! To engage my fantastic boy energy in it, whilst holding and fully reflecting my feminine know-how.

  185.  #185April Rose on February 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Rori has a new posting up, with downloadable novels written by her!!!!

  186.  #186Dominique on February 9, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    April Rose – 🙂

    Love to you.


  187.  #187Luzydel on February 9, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    what happens when after circular dating so much; one just feel like just being alone and not circular dating as much? Not saying I am closed off or bitter due to my experiences, quite the opposite I feel like a wild flower!

    I feel that circular dating helped me with my baggage, tough I admit some men provoked angry feelings in me, I hated them, loved them and lost hope in them quiet a few times, but after a while of doing it I “got it” (just like the movie Groundhog Day”) But now I feel at peace inside of me, I like men differently. I enjoy them but I do not want to keep them ( Does that make sense?) I see commitment differently, as if I do not have to do anything, if a man shows up he either stays or leave, I just enjoy his time for as long as it last. I am no longer in dating sites, but I do on the occasional date if a man ask around (not as often as online).

    Is this an effect of CDing? or am I just not getting it after all?

    I feel goo the way things are anyway. 🙂

  188.  #188Luzydel on February 9, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    I meant ‘good’ not goo 😉

  189.  #189Andrea on February 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    Oh Luzydel, that’s a good question because I’m feeling very similar to you. I went off the dating sites a while ago and just kind of letting men show up. I had a wonderful dating weekend a week or so ago but also have really been at peace just staying home and tending to my hobbies and projects.

    I actually went completely off facebook and took down my site entirely just to be low profile for a while. Now I put up a new page for my new writing project and it feels so wonderful to just allow people to find me.

    But, I think that you and I are CD’ing ourselves, by tending to and taking care of our own needs and finding real joy in being alone with ourselves. And then when men come around we can have such pleasure in having the personal power and choice to invite them in, or…. not.

  190.  #190Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    I really like this that Mathew Hussey says. I think it’s extremely insightful and fits perfectly with Rori’s teaching about “boundaries” and when we sit and ask, “what does it mean?” sometimes… This is about arguments in relationships:

    Quoth Mathew

    How can we fix damage that’s been done?

    We don’t do it by continuing the feud. We do it through better communication.

    There are two things going on in any argument: Rules and Standards.

    Standards [boundaries] are the fundamentals for what you will and won’t accept in a relationship. In other words, the level of lovingness, generosity, care, nurturing and excitement that you hold someone to.

    Rules are the surface level ways we determine whether someone is meeting our standards.


    ‘I have a rule that someone has to get home by a certain time in order to show that they love me and spend time with me.’

    ‘I have a standard [boundary] that the person I’m with has to adore me.’

  191.  #191Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    I spent a nice day off by myself 🙂

  192.  #192Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Cupcake, Shannon, FW and Dominique, any other sirens I missed who replied to me, thank you!!
    I feel heard and understood.
    I do not feel offended at all.

    It makes so much sense what you’re saying. It’s true.
    I effed up by allowing the make outs at his house but jeezus a girl can get caught up in the moment….
    I agree I should not have gone there, and I didn’t go with the intent to make out. It just happens and I let it happen.
    FW no, a proper date does not = snogging.
    I love that word by the way!!
    I feel more amused now by it all and I sooo appreciate all your love sirens. Thank you xoxo

    I’m going to lean way back and silent for now. The problem is we live nearby and I see him from time to time so it’s akward. I know how to avoid him though.

  193.  #193Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    Personally, I wouldn’t avoid him. Just don’t be the first to approach. If you see him, smile, but go about your business. If he approaches you, be warm and welcoming.

    Then if he asks you over, state that it didn’t feel good going to a man’s house or whatever feels right to you to say (Dominique might help you script a good ‘no’ for that). Say how you love it so much when men take you [wherever–restaurant, cinema, art gallery, whatev], and how sexy that is.

    Then say you feel rushed right now, and leave…

    Let him pursue you.

    Not leaning forward doesn’t mean intentional avoidance. It means being the mouse that the cat can ignore… or try to capture… as he sees fit.

    It is, of course, all easier said that exercised. But I have faith in you. 🙂

  194.  #194Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    Oh, and snogging is one of my favorite words, EVER. Seriously.

    It’s just plain awesome. That is all!

  195.  #195Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 7:37 pm

    Cupcake, thank you, dear lady!

  196.  #196Shannon on February 9, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    I’m about to head to bed, but there was someone who was talking about motivation earlier. I apologize that I forget who, and don’t want to go looking (even with the Find feature, lol).

    For motivation, I use a free website called simpleology.

    It helps you to organize your day, every day. It is a very simple, intuitive program that can help you change your life, especially if you’re generally UNorganized or UNmotivated.

  197.  #197Turquoise on February 9, 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I’m really excited to announce that I have signed up to sell Gold Canyon candles. I LOVE candles.. make me feel relaxed and mellow, I use them to celebrate birthdays and special meals…. and the glow feels magical on a romantic evening. After my crazy week…. I decided to go ahead and sign up and this will help me make some extra money, get me out meeting new people, and it will be FUN! If you click on my name it should take you to my website if you’d like to check it out. Wish me luck!

  198.  #198Turquoise on February 9, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Also, things are going nicely with my new guy…. still need a name for him, but want to get to know him better before I choose it. He’s asked me out for Valentine’s night… we are probably going to the movies, and he’s kept in contact all weekend. We have some friends in common and I asked about him…. after what happened with sweetheart, I feel a little skittish, this helped. They said very nice things about him, so that makes me feel better. He seems very thoughtful. He also sends good morning beautiful/good afternoon sunshine messages, so Ive been feeling pretty smiley. 🙂

    Sweetheart has respected my wishes and not called. I feel relieved. No crying since Saturday afternoon. I think that’s done, at least for now.

    Mr. Conversation has texted daily…. think he’s checking in on me. I appreciate it.

    Another guy I had emailed with for awhile, lives a few hours away… was no plan to meet, but his wife left him for a woman, so I told him about what happened on Thursday. Tonight he called and it was so nice, to feel supported and know people were thinking about me, helps.

    My sister and another friend have also been very supportive. I know I’m blessed to have people in my life who care, and show up.

    I still feel like someone is standing on my chest, that pressure is still there… but no more crying and I feel pretty good. It’s getting easier. Thanks sirens! Love you!

  199.  #199Kim on February 9, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Help me please?

  200.  #200Millie on February 9, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    This is interesting…
    I’ve lived in my apt for about three months. I don’t have tv and my ex (who I have zero interest in getting back with) just offered to pay for my cable. He’s never offered to do anything like that before…I told him thank you, that his offer makes me feel special, but that I would give it some thought. He seems serious about it. I wanted to give myself some time to see how I feel with the idea. Considering that I don’t want to get back together with him, I’m wondering how him paying my bill will make me feel as I date and bring home other men. I forsee this arrangement becoming complicated…What do you ladies think about accepting an offer like this?

  201.  #201Millie on February 9, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    Kim– what do you need help with?

  202.  #202Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    Liquid Light-

    I thought about you last night, and wondered if you were dancing. I hoped you were. And today I felt glad to read that you were indeed dancing!

    Did you wear the beige shoes?

  203.  #203Millie on February 9, 2014 at 9:04 pm

    Have you ladies ever dated a guy that used to date one of your friends?? I feel like there is a girl code against this….but in all fairness, she rejected him. She didn’t want to be in a relationship with him. Thoughts?

  204.  #204Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:04 pm


    What did you do this weekend? Did I miss it in the posts?


  205.  #205Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Hi, Millie-

    I once dated my best friends ex boyfriend. She had also rejected him, and it had been about two years since they’d broken up.

    She wasn’t very happy with me about it, but in the end it made us better friends because, once I was dating him, I understood exactly why she had dumped him! I’d never really “got” that, from the outside looking in.

    He actually ended it with ME because- best reason I ever got for a breakup- some crop circles appeared somewhere and he said that if the aliens were trying to make contact with us earthlings, it required his full concentration. Therefore he was ending our relationship.

    I had a hard time keeping a straight face, but he was serious. (At that point, I was only in it for the sex, anyway. He had this long blond hair, and I used to pretend he was a Viking and— oh. I digress….)

    Anyway- like I said, my bestie was hurt and confused at the time. She knew she didn’t have a leg to stand on about being possessive, but it still felt awkward a little.

    Boy did we laugh about the crop circles, though!

  206.  #206Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    192 Shannon good point, I like your idea for if and when I see him. I do feel open to dating him. I feel that my boundaries are better now.
    I have some more clarity now than when I met him.
    And avoiding him feels childish running away…which I just said I do not want to do.

    I do feel critical of myself for letting myself get carries away and make out with these guys I meet.

    Just like with cutecityCD, i was very attracted and i made out with him on date 2. it was similar we had a couple of “dates”…only one was “proper” and we would end up in his car kissing and getting turned on. Ugh I feel so foolish, he must think I am cheap, what am I in high school?
    I don’t know. After that he just wanted me to come to his house and was very sexual flirty on texts.

    I need to tone down my sex drive. Lol

  207.  #207Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:20 pm

    204 cupcake that is hilarious about the crop circles!! That’s a new one for sure!!

  208.  #208Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 9:22 pm

    Btw 205 I never went to cutecityCD’s house and I told him I don’t want casual sex. He poofed. :-/

  209.  #209Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:24 pm


    Rori recommends that we always have a fun backup plan in case a CD cancels.

    Maybe you could start doing that? It seems like you feel really triggered when he reschedules, even when, as in this case, you half suspected that he might reschedule anyway.

    I feel bad when I read how wound up you feel. You are in the right place, here. These wise women will help you.



  210.  #210Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    Shannon- What’s up in your situation? Did you “fire” your CDs you weren’t attracted to?

  211.  #211Millie on February 9, 2014 at 9:30 pm


    A Viking?! That is hilarious!! and crop circles? Very strange indeed!! Thank you for sharing!
    This guy and I went out the other night and he picked me up and was very gentlemanly!! Opening doors for me, paid of course, drove, put his hand on my waist, complimented my nose (it’s very strong) and just complimenting me in general. It’s the first time I’ve seen him in six months, since he and my friend stopped seeing each other. I’m not sure if he’s interested in more than being friends. I’m so bad at gauging that, haha.

  212.  #212Millie on February 9, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    Cupcake– what do you think about letting an ex you aren’t interested in rekindling the fire with, but see as a friend, pay for you cable bill???

  213.  #213Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 9:32 pm


    Dare we hope to get a preview of the poem you are working on?


  214.  #214Millie on February 9, 2014 at 9:32 pm

    I’m leaning towards….H*LL no.

  215.  #215Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    Ugh, the more I think about it, the more I feel I made so many mistakes with exoticCD !!! No wonder he has the wrong idea. Ugh!!!!

  216.  #216Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 10:36 pm


    It sounds like you already feel like it comes with an agenda from him you don’t want to take on.

    Did you ask him what he’d be getting out of it?

  217.  #217Emerson on February 9, 2014 at 10:38 pm

    Ok I am not going to beat myself up… It’s ok Emerson .
    I can be gentle with myself.

  218.  #218Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 10:39 pm


    No beating yourself up!

    We have ALL slipped into the accidental snogging mode at one point or another. It happens.

    And who cares what he thinks of you? Rori always says men know in an instant if we’re the one they want. If it had clicked for him- there would have been more proper dates anyway.

    Plenty more where he came from.

  219.  #219Cupcake on February 9, 2014 at 10:42 pm


    He opened doors, paid, complimented you, put his hand on your waist….

    Sweetie, you know– That’s not “friend” behavior.

    Just lean back and see what he does! Sound promising, to me!

  220.  #220Andrea on February 9, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    Millie # 199.

    I don’t understand what the hesitation is. I mean.. I really don’t understand it. My girlfriends and I have this conversation on a smaller scale all the time when we are out at bars.
    A man offers to buy me a drink. I say, “Oh my goodness, thank you SO SO much. It feels so wonderful to have you offer. I’ll have a glass of wine.”
    I smile. I’m extremely happy. HE made me happy. Hooray. And that transaction is over.

    My friend sits at the bar. A man offers to buy her a drink. She says, “No, I can get my own thank you.” He shrugs and walks away.

    I say, “Why didn’t you let him buy you a drink?”

    She says, “Because then he’ll expect something in return.”

    That’s where I get very confused. I think, “So what if he expects something in return. That doesn’t mean he GETS something in return. An offer of a gift is just that, a gift. And the proper response to a gift is: THANK YOU!! Oh Thank You so much. I feel so wonderful. I accept this gift.”

    I’ve never had any problem with accepting gifts from men who I was not romantically linked to. It makes a man feel manly and strong and like a provider when he can show that he can take care of those he cares about. Whether they are friends, exes, partners, lovers, sisters, mothers, strangers…

    So, I feel really curious about your post. Am I the one who has it strangely backward? Or am I missing something here? Why do feel uncomfortable accepting this man’s really nice gift. (and I’m not saying you Should accept it… If it makes you uncomfortable then don’t. But I’m just saying I feel curious about it.)

    Ps.. for Cupcake.. I will have a video of my poetry. I’m doing a cable show on our local cable channel about taking poetry classes and finally competing in the poetry slam. (my show is a series about me, a grown and rotund heehee woman who goes on different adventures that I’ve always wanted to go on but stopped myself in the past cause I thought I was too fat, or too old, or too… wrong for the situation… anyway, it’s a show about saying Yes!!)
    One of my poems is called, “Baby, I’m Sorry For the Crazy.” hahahahah

  221.  #221Andrea on February 9, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Cupcake # 215… yes… see… that’s what I get from my friends when we have this convo.

    A man offers a gift. I say, “Thank you.”
    She says.. “What’s his agenda??”

    But I’ve felt that his agenda is his business. And, at least on this one issue, I’ve learned that it benefits me to stay out of his business. And it really does.

    I have a male friend who introduces me as his best friend. He always likes to go for drinks after his work. I can’t go with him cause I really don’t like to buy my own drinks at bars. It’s such a waste of my money. We remedied that by him offering to buy my drinks for me when he asks me out. Even though it’s just a friendship. So I know, when he asks me to meet him out for happy hour or something, it’s cause he doesn’t like to sit alone, he really likes my company, and he can afford to buy my drinks.

    Well, he asked me what I was doing for Valentines Day and he told me to save the date for him. I told him I felt uncomfortable going out with him on a romantic day like that. I told him I felt better leaving that evening open in case I have an actual date and reminded him that he could ask other women out for something more romantic. He texted me back, “I understand. Right now, I just prefer a friendship with you.”

    I could read many things into that. But instead I told him thank you and that I appreciate his friendship as well but I was not interested in V-Day. And that was that. Tonight he called and asked if I’d come watch Walking Dead with him at his fave bar. And I did. It was nice. He’s just my friend. Maybe he has a romantic agenda where I’m concerned. But if he does he has to get over it. That’s not my business. I’m always honest with him and appreciative of every gift he gives me.

  222.  #222Veronica on February 9, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Haven’t heard from LastCD and I’m feeling confused. I would like to see him again, or rather just have a heart to heart connection. Up ’til now it’s been a lot of fun, but I don’t know, I have anxiety coming up (again around non-contact).

    I’d really like for my NVs to leave my wanting to express my desires alone. I feel afraid that expressing my desires will be leaning forward, especially where there is no contact : ( I do want to see him again, I do enjoy being with him – yet I feel concerned that he isn’t inspired to be in contact. I’m not telling him what to do or where to go for a date but I do hope that he’ll want to meet again. I need to sit with this more – old sadness in my throat and tears of ‘oh, not here again’.

  223.  #223Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 4:16 am

    Goodness, Millie. Let him pay for it.

    If he has an agenda, that’s HIS PROBLEM.

    He’s a grown man. If he wants to offer to pay a bill, let him. Learn to receive without feeling obligated!

  224.  #224Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 4:25 am

    Emerson, it’s free therapy.

    I would gently suggest dating some “frogs” so that you can get used to saying, “Thank you, but it feels too soon for that” when they try to snog you…

  225.  #225Dominique on February 10, 2014 at 5:09 am

    Luzydel – 186 – If this is how you’re feeling right now, then this is how you’re feeling. And it’s all good. Remember you don’t have to actually go out on dates with men to continue to circular date. Try dating the world for awhile, i.e engaging with any and all, even Nature.


  226.  #226Dominique on February 10, 2014 at 5:14 am

    Emerson – 191 – Remember that there are no mistakes, only learning and growing experiences. I also think the word should is a good word to eliminate from one’s vocabulary. There are no shoulds. Maybe your choice was not optimal, yet it was what it was, no harm done really, and you’re learning along the way, so all in all a positive experience.


  227.  #227Dominique on February 10, 2014 at 5:21 am

    Millie – 202 – I did this once, and yes it felt weird and didn’t last long at all, not because of the weirdness do much, more because it was a poor match. How do you feel about it? If you feel okay, the why not.

    As for your ex paying for things for you, I would tend to agree with you that it will likely get complicated later. And I also question his reasons.


  228.  #228Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 5:25 am


    There’s a lot going on with me. I am in mourning over the relationship that I dreamed of. I’ve become somewhat angry sometimes, but mostly indifferent towards my ex, and the actual relationship we really had.

    The truth is, I no longer even care if he can step up or not. I just don’t want him. I’m working hard on finding a job and getting out, where I’ll feel free. Where I’ll feel obviously lonely, but that won’t be any different!! I don’t want to feel alone, but I definitely don’t want to feel alone in a relationship.

    And K will be better off. I struggle with that, because of my views of divorce in general and especially if children are involved… but the sad fact is that there are things he does to her that I find completely unacceptable–things he’ll be very unlikely to do without me around. He sets her up to take the blame when he doesn’t want to do something he promised her, “If you don’t behave right, we’re not going”, so then everything is HER FAULT when it doesn’t happen. And then he also snarls and snaps at her to go away when he’s on the computer. He doesn’t go on the computer when I’m not around, though.

    The only way K will ever get the best of her dad, is if I’m not around them.

    And for 10 years, he was just himself. I was utterly miserable. And while a good portion of that was my fault, he does one thing that I simply won’t accept anymore. Period. He blames me for everything that happens. If a freaking bomb dropped in Turkey, he would find a way to blame it on me. And I’m done with that. Completely. I won’t tolerate it anymore, and there isn’t a way in Rori’s teachings to say, “I refuse to take the blame for things that I didn’t do. I REFUSE.” And that’s how strongly I feel about it now.

    My entire view of him and the relationship has shifted to the point where I can’t wait to get out. I can’t wait! I don’t feel good around him, I just feel angry or ignored… and always “not good enough” from the first day that we met. It has always been with him, “I’ll be happy when Shannon does x, y, or z…” and I’d do x, y, or z… and he would just start saying he couldn’t be happy NOW unless I did m, n, l, or o.

    He no longer feels worth the work to me. I no longer want him to know how I feel about anything. It feels like throwing my pearls to the swine (to steal from a religion I no longer follow). It feels like I’m giving something precious to someone who’s just going to trample it.

    His favorite new saying is, “Well, that’s just feelings.”

    That’s right. It’s just feelings. But they’re MY feelings, and they’re PRECIOUS.

    So for now, I feel done here. I suspect I’ll have moments of panic and desperation as I leave (I’m crying just thinking that, and knowing it’s true)… but my general feeling on it is that I won’t be treated this way again. I just won’t.

    I took my responsibility. I said my “I’m sorry”s. He chose to still reject and abandon me, and he hasn’t said he was sorry. He takes no responsibility beyond, “Yeah, I made mistakes, but…”

    I feel done here. Most of the time. :p

  229.  #229Dominique on February 10, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Shannon – 227 – Did you say this to him?

    “That’s right. It’s just feelings. But they’re MY feelings, and they’re PRECIOUS.”

    You could you know. I might tweak it a little to the below, or you can leave it as is –

    “Yes, these are just feelings, and they are MY feelings, and these feelings are precious.”


  230.  #230Indigo on February 10, 2014 at 11:13 am

    hi Cupcake,

    Thank you for the interest sweetie 🙂 that makes me feel special.

    I broke up with B on Thursday night… it is a long story that I will tell you Sirens about soon, but suffice to say, he was heartbroken, and I didn’t feel too great. I didn’t feel terrible either.

    I had a hibernating night on Friday, which was lovely – some peaceful me time – on Saturday night I went out for a bit of socializing at the pub where I had a few laughs and a few drinks with the girls. And a guitarist in an alternative rock band was kinda flirting with me…

    On Sunday I once again stayed in, got chores done and watched some of my favourite shows. It was sweet to be able to do that. And then B came over for a short while last night and we discussed possibly being friends.

    Thanks girl, sending you positive vibes xxx

  231.  #231Indigo on February 10, 2014 at 11:25 am


    I’m with Andrea.

    I’ve had exes offer to pay for things like this and – in my case – they never expected anything in return.

    It simply seemed to be a case of masculine kindness – it is the one thing men can do very well – provide.

    Let him, I say. Unless you feel insanely uncomfortable.

  232.  #232Millie on February 10, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    Andrea 219–

    I totally understand what you mean and 99% of the time I do accept drinks and gifts from men without feeling they expect anything from me. In this case…my hesitation came from the fact that he is an EX. He’s not the man for me, I’ve already decided that. So my hesitation is wondering, if it would be ok to accept a gift while I feel that way…..

    I have not asked him why or if he expects anything back. If someone gives you a gift, my reaction is not to ask why, it is to say thank you, so I have not pried into his reasonings.

    I’m thinking to accept the gift and if he chooses to change his mind at any time, the gift was a luxury, not a necessity.

  233.  #233Liquid Light on February 10, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Way to go, Millie! That new guy/old friend sounds awesome!!!!

  234.  #234Millie on February 10, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Oh and Cupcake…
    My thoughts exactly! I just didn’t want to get my hopes up!

    Thank you liquid light!!!!

  235.  #235Emerson on February 10, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    225 thanks Dominique

  236.  #236Michael Belk on February 11, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Rori, I love the title of this article because it is so true.

    We need to understand that it takes a life time to get it right.

    You are in it for the long haul.