Love Happens When You Take Baby Steps Through Chaos

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IMG_0913If you know me personally, or have ever worked with me, you know I LOVE “chaos. ”

To me, chaos is the feminine state of being, where everything that “is” simply “is” – and this “is”  is always moving, always flowing, coming together in different ways as a primal experience of creation.

Here are some definitions:


noun: chaos; plural noun: chaoses
  1. complete disorder and confusion.
    “snow caused chaos in the region”
    1. Physics
      behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.
    2. the formless matter supposed to have existed before the creation of the universe.
    3. Greek Mythology
      the first created being, from which came the primeval deities Gaia, Tartarus, Erebus, and Nyx.
      noun: Chaos

    This is my favoriteChaos as “The formless matter supposed to have existed before the creation of the universe.”

    And this from Greek Mythology: “…the first created being…”

    So – how can chaos be your friend, instead of the “enemy” we’ve all been taught to make it out to be?

    Here’s my Method (and yes, there’s a method that works WITH chaos…):

    Baby Steps – Without a Map

    It looks like this:

    You are always moving, like an element in chaos, always flowing.

    You feel something that feels good, you follow that feeling with your heart and body.

    As you move in the direction you felt like moving, you notice that you don’t have a “map.”

    You notice that you’re not moving in a straight line toward your “goal.”

    You bravely choose to diffuse your focus on that “goal,” and instead focus your attention on what feels like it might be your next baby step.

    You organically become the action of that step.

    What It Could Look Like:

    It could be opening your mouth and letting words come out that express what you feel in a way you never have before, even though you feel terror wanting you to “stop” at the same time.

    It could be putting in a request for a raise.

    It could be beginning a business, or starting an art project, or taking a course that’s been percolating inside you for a very long time.

    It could be opening your heart and body to a man who’s nothing like you ever imagined “your man” would be and look like.

    It could be experiencing anything where you have no idea how it’ll turn out.

    It could be getting in your car one more time to meet an online date for the first time.

    There is no answer to the question: “What’s next?”

    There is only the impulse from inside you, inspiring you from that inside place to move in a direction that may or may not lead somewhere. Inviting and compelling you to simply “veer” in a vague direction where the only clarity is the feeling of the baby step itself.

    Let yourself guide yourself.

    Trust will come. You’ll learn what you need to learn for the next baby step, and you’ll become braver every time you move from inside you instead of from anything your head tells you to do.

    If you’d like personal, private help to discover how to let yourself guide yourself with your feminine energy, take a look at The Siren Circle Private Coaching program – and all the amazing support, coaching and training you’ll get with Rori Raye coaches at a truly affordable fee: 

    Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Starla on March 21, 2016 at 8:20 am

    Crazy! I was just thinking these exact thoughts and was coming here to share about them.

    I have fallen prey to the misleading urgency of needing to get it all right and all “fixed” right away. Baby steps have felt like a threat, because to me baby steps have meant that I am allowing the disorder and dysfunction to continue beyond that baby step.

    That’s a trap. If I could snap my fingers and magically be a healthier, happier person, then I would have.

    Baby steps and loving on the chaos is the only way.

  2.  #2Azure Blu on March 21, 2016 at 8:26 am

    Starla #1

  3.  #3Victoria on March 21, 2016 at 8:29 am

    2 weeks ago yesterday, my friend (who lives in another state) called me but didn’t leave a voice mail like he usually does. I called him back (it took 4 rings for him to answer). He said that he had some running around to do and wanted to know if I was going to be home later on that evening. I said yes and he said several times over that he would call me tonight (as in March 6). Then I told him that we (my roommates and I) were not in our own apartment…that said at the end of the conversation, he said ok, I’ll call you tonight girl. So I said, “ok sweetie”. then he drew a breath like he was in shock and I haven’t heard from him since. That said I instant messaged him to explain how “Sweetie” is used in the South. What I want to know is will I hear from him again? What did I do wrong? Mind you, this guy said I love you to me 2 weeks prior to March 6.

  4.  #4Femininewoman on March 21, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Sometimes just living seem to be chaotic

  5.  #5Tee on March 21, 2016 at 9:58 am

    Feeling very chaotic right now but I’m allowing it to flow over me. Like a tornado. I feel so much brewing inside of me; fear and impatience

    I wanna lash out at E for being the culprit in one part of this. To let some steam outta the pot. Sometimes I don’t think he thinks things through before he speaks.

    However, what’s done is done. We “argued” a little before it stopped. I also know that E likes to get me riled up & I’m aware that I fall right into his traps sometimes

    I feel really annoyed by that part of him right now. I hate not knowing, being on edge as to the outcome while he seems nonchalant as usual.

    My feet won’t stay still, I’m very anxious & want to worry but I think I’ll just not do that

    Instead, I’ll grab some chocolate, read a book and ignore the rest

  6.  #6Azure Blu on March 21, 2016 at 11:13 am

    Tee #4
    Mmmmm… according to Rori…
    that sounds VERY feminine!

  7.  #7Tee on March 21, 2016 at 12:40 pm

    Easier said than done but I’m getting better at this. Thanks Sirens 🙂

  8.  #8Angela on March 21, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    I live in chaos. I love living in chaos, in a way that is not negative. Just living without knowing maybe even living with fear, with a fear that is more like excitement. Fear does not know mean it will be bad. I can be in fear and meet the love of my life. I want to think about it that way.
    And I feel fear, and that is ok, great things can happen with fear.
    I know its happened before.
    I love my fear. I love my fear! I love fearing; not knowing . In the end it all works out.
    I am living with a man from who I get no sex, a man who throws tantrums, a man that wants it all his way, a sweet man but very immature man, a good man that still brings up doubts in me.
    I want a real man.
    I want my apartment back all to myself. And I feel fear when i say that.
    I am in fear and its ok things will gets fixed i know it.
    Life wants me to be happy.
    I have an online dating profile even though we are together it happened while we were on a break and its ok.
    I love having options. I feel fear. what will happen if j finds out?
    I am talking non stop with a man from the app.
    He sounds so good to be true that it is starting to turn me off.
    He is 23 and a virgin. No! Why. I feel uncomfortable. I want an experienced man. Ugh sexual difficulties again why!
    He talks relationship…what a turn off. No why!
    I feel fear omg it will be ok!
    Yesterday we texted while J was in bed. I told my family about the new guy. They think I should end it with J I felt judged they said it was like cheating. 🙁 I felt sad. I wanted their support. I feel fear and I feel good.

  9.  #9Lotus on March 21, 2016 at 4:48 pm

    WOW! I really appreciate this post. My life has often felt chaotic, and I get rather good at mastering being the queen of my chaos, and being able to have fun with it and feel the flow despite having less control over things.
    I welcome the little moments of chaos that can bring me joy in uncertainty, the serendipity of discovering new things and people through my meandering path.
    I feel more embracing of my own chaos, it’s creative chaos and flow! haha

    Chaos – creation – karma – whirlpool – joy – water – flow.

  10.  #10Colleen on March 21, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    I sure needed this today. yes chaos always. Rori, I am very sorry about your mother. Loved hearing how you spoke every night and that your brother took such good care of her. Feel so grateful to your tools, your posts, you. I have been a “student” of yours for over 6 years. Made every “mistake” but i sure have grown. Someone on here suggested Tinder. I have had a blast like never before, flirtations and fun. Now perhaps may have met the one, or at least I feel he is “worthy” of me. Hes loving, gentle,funny, smart, and feels like he wants same things as me. I am not getting caught up in controlling things. More later.

  11.  #11MissStix on March 21, 2016 at 6:55 pm

    This is so beautiful!

    I do love chaos. I love wildness. I love primal energy. I love elemental power which is born of chaos. It is the Universe creating, destroying, using what it has to bring something into being. It’s how time unfolds and takes us on a journey and gives the power to shape our experiences.

    Chaos as the first BEing makes so much sense. Chaos is the mother of all being.

  12.  #12MissStix on March 21, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    Chaos…Sometimes brings feelings of sorrow and pain and heartache. This is all part of my experience here…
    I wonder where I accepted this, internalized it, made it a soft blanket to wrap around my shoulders. The comfort of knowing no matter what I experience and feel, in the end what will matter is my appreciation for the opportunity to be a part of it all.
    This sets my soul at ease.

  13.  #13Millie on March 21, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    Wow, this post doesn’t really resonate with me at all. I am very goal oriented. It feels scary to think of following a good feeling when there is the possibility it can take you off your path and horse. I feel confused.

  14.  #14Millie on March 21, 2016 at 10:59 pm

    Following up from the last thread…M texted again tonight asking if I was ok. I responded warmly to that until he began to ask again about the “new guy” (who hasn’t contacted me recently). I simply said I don’t feel like talking about my dating life. And he accepted that and said he was sorry. I asked how he was and he brought up his dating life and said he can’t find anyone he likes…that he has a few clingy women right now. I replied saying that too much space and not enough space are the worst. He laughed and then I let it end…

    My guy friend T texted tonight too 🙂
    I hadn’t seen/heard from him all wknd because he was at an event. I decided to lean back and see what happens. He asked about my day and said he had a great time at the event, which is why he hadn’t texted me. I felt really happy and surprised he acknowledged that! Because I definitely missed him and felt the space and was wondering when I was going to hear from him. It’s nice to hear that he felt it too, but was really enjoying himself in the present! I like leaning back with him and feeling him come forward when he is thinking of me and is making the masculine decision when he is in the place to. 🙂

  15.  #15Victoria on March 22, 2016 at 1:45 am

    For what it’s worth, the chaos topic does not resonate with me either.
    As for M. “He has a few clingy women women right now.” I have found that men make this type of statements in front of women who they used to date in order to spite them. It is a really stupid thing to say, and most of the time, it is absolutely not true. But, in their simple minds, they think they are raising their own worth in your eyes. I actually think in the PUA literature they are specifically taught to say this to a girl as part of the strategy to drag her back to having s*x with them, after she has dreadfully friendzoned them. I think you are doing absolutely great with him!

  16.  #16Indigo on March 22, 2016 at 4:22 am


    I agree with you that Millie is doing absolutely great with M, and I agree with you that a guy saying he has a few clingy women is a very stupid thing to say.

    Most of the time it is not true, but it conveys a particular impression – of a man in demand who just can’t bother himself to keep up with all the attention he’s receiving. To this I say, yawn.

    I have had a couple of guys say this and it used to have exactly the desired effect on me. Namely that it sent a subtle warning sign not to bring up any kind of commitment. They were both not ready to really commit in any way. Anyway, now I take it as a bad sign if a guy even mentions that word, unless someone’s behaviour IS bona FIDE clingy.

    Nice guys though I find don’t feel the need to badmouth women they’ve dated. I take it as a bad sign if a man ever talks dismissively about women.

  17.  #17Victoria on March 22, 2016 at 5:51 am

    I also think nice guys do not badmouth women, and really impressive men do not need to be telling you that women are chasing them, because you already know that they are super hot.
    I had a man tell me many many years ago something along these lines (not using the word clingy but still) and I got very upset at the time. When I dropped him, he turned into a stalker, the poor bas*ard, now I know for sure it was all in his imagination. A good friend of mine who is super gorgeous also has heard this from a few men, and in each instance we have eventually discovered that they truly had nothing to brag about.
    How have you been?

  18.  #18Millie on March 22, 2016 at 6:04 am

    Victoria and Indigo–

    Thank you! I am happy with how I have been handling him as well! The actual word he used was “clingers,” which I think is a common term in the guy world. It actually had no effect on me, except to reaffirm what I already know about him. He’s a good looking guy who doesn’t have to work hard to “get” women. They chase him. This is something I already know from him sharing his history with me. I also know he likes to be the pursuer. I took it as, he doesn’t think I’m clingy. Although maybe I had a moment of that before he disappeared…. I don’t know. I don’t really care. If that comment was intended to up his value… I have to laugh.

  19.  #19Victoria on March 22, 2016 at 6:24 am

    Let me ask, who is texting whom late at night trying to see if the door is still open :-). I am very very happy how this is turning for you.

  20.  #20Tee on March 22, 2016 at 7:25 am

    Feeling good & in a sharing mood

    Sitting at Dunkin Donuts enjoying a free coffee
    Happy that my little sister made the Dean’s List
    Thrilled that I have a man who loves me & wants to spoil me more often, if only I’d let him lol I’m trying to not be so sensitive around him
    E loves to play & joke around and sometimes I’m just not *there* lol I’m tender and raw… (shrug)
    Grateful for the cool people that I run into online…yes I know that I need to meet some actual flesh and blood folks but hey…baby steps
    Thankful for the Very very awesome job opportunity that I was presented with….I’m trying to be patient but I’m excited!!!

    Ok I think that’s it for now 🙂

  21.  #21Azure Blu on March 22, 2016 at 9:06 am

    Ohhh… lovely Siren!
    So happy to hear about your VRY VERY awesome job opportunity!!
    and that you are out and about!

    Me too… I need to get up off my computer chair and go for a walk before my legs turn into muuuushhhh!

  22.  #22Femininewoman on March 22, 2016 at 9:39 am

    Re 13 – I dunno. That reads like going out on a limb to read a guy’s mind. I find it easier to just believe what a guy says. If I were Millie and was going to figure anything out I’d just take to it mean his subliminal message that he doesn’t like women leaning forward and prefers women who choose to live their lives. As him giving clues about the type of guy he truly is, not necessarily saying anything about the women.

  23.  #23Indigo on March 22, 2016 at 9:43 am

    Victoria 15,


    Thank you for asking, I have been really well, but my life is so filled with work and responsibility that I don’t even know which way my head is pointing most days. I gather this is par for the course when you are in your first year studying engineering.

    This did not bode so well for my relationship as I started to really feel the pressure and my boyfriend simultaneously came under a lot of pressure at his job. That and the distance between us (we were a good 45 minutes stressful drive apart) and when you are battling to find the time as it is, this is added pressure. It’s hard to adequately explain here, but we decided to call it quits for now. I battled with that, but now acknowledge it was for the best. Having relationship strain when you are trying to study for difficult maths tests is the pits.

  24.  #24Indigo on March 22, 2016 at 9:50 am

    Feminine Woman 20,

    I actually in part agree with you. I think these guys are very masculine and that is part of their appeal and they do definitely prefer it when women are living their own lives, and they don’t like it when women lean forward. However I’ve heard some, not all, of these types of men, the more emotionally unavailable ones that is, call women clingy for the most bizarre things. I’ve heard a guy call women clingy because the woman wanted to meet rather than endlessly text over a dating app. I’ve heard a man call women clingy because they discussed what they wanted in their future or in a relationship (not necessarily with him). Men who are afraid of committing find excuses to be scared off.

  25.  #25Azure Blu on March 22, 2016 at 10:18 am

    Wow… I’d forgotten you had started your new schooling… didn’t realize it was in Engineering!
    Congrats again… !!! :-))

    Sorry to hear about the Cd guy… but i can understand putting him on the sideline for now…

  26.  #26Azure Blu on March 22, 2016 at 10:20 am

    FW #20
    I do agree with this:
    “I’d just take to it mean his subliminal message that he doesn’t like women leaning forward and prefers women who choose to live their lives.”

    and Indigo #22 yes…
    “However I’ve heard some, not all, of these types of men, the more EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE ones that is, call women clingy for the most bizarre things…”

  27.  #27Millie on March 22, 2016 at 11:13 am

    Femininwoman20– yes I totally agree with you and in the moment really didn’t read into it further than just seeing him as the pursuer type and not liking to be pursued. I haven’t had a lot of experience where men have manipulative intentions… I think they are more simple than we think, but I appreciate hearing other ladies experiences around this.

    I didn’t ask details as to why he thought they were clingy. I just assumed that means they are pursuing him. I don’t really want to hear details about his dating life with other women.

  28.  #28Azure Blu on March 22, 2016 at 12:30 pm

    Millie #25
    I’m with you… NEVER interested in hearing much about mens experiences with other women!! :-))

    Unless it has to do with “I learned what I did wrong and have tried to change that in the future!”

    That’s always good to hear!! :0)

  29.  #29MissStix on March 22, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    On the topic of hearing about mens experiences with other women…I personally feel a bit fascinated when my bf talks about past relationships. I like to hear his perspective. However, I don’t think i’d be at all interested or curious about current experiences from a man i’m not exclusive with. No thanks. :p

  30.  #30MissStix on March 22, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    I feel vague disiniterest.
    I feel…Something not easy to put my finger on. Unsure, uncertain, mild unease. Give myself permission to be vulnerable. To have NVs. I feel…Far away. The feeling leads into my chest, up the back of my spine from there…Into the back of my head and out my ears.
    Give myself permission to feel uncomfortable. My eyes feel deep. I can’t possibly make sense of this feeling descriptively.
    I recognize some unmet expectations.
    It would feel so good to…
    It would feel so good to…
    It would feel so good to…
    No. I can only follow that up with something I could possibly do FOR myself.
    I recognize how I set myself up to feel…
    Turned off.
    I recognize how I visualize possibilities…If it is a possibility it is not a current reality. Feels annoying, irritating.
    It would feel so good to flip this in a way that better serves me and my dreamy life…

  31.  #31BeLoved on March 22, 2016 at 4:04 pm

    So, I tried a love coach this morning. It apparently wasn’t a good fit. I was feeling touchy and emotional, unexpectedly crying, and I felt pressured to hurry and get past the messy emotional stuff and get to the ACTION. I didn’t feel truly seen and she actually suggested that it wasn’t a good fit, I agreed.

    Still feeling touchy and emotional all day, I went to the academic advising office. A dear friend who was an adviser, died unexpectedly over the weekend (I found out yesterday) and when I sat near her office, my eyes were leaking and leaking and leaking. A woman sitting near me said, “It’s like that, today, is it?”
    I smiled, yes, and she said, “Sometimes it just is.”
    I felt from her, a warm, wise, deep and dark mother energy and I felt so grateful for her simple presence.

    She left, and I sat there with myself, loving me through the tears. Noticing that both C and the coach seemed to treat me as if a grown woman crying was something bad, wondering whether I need to forgive myself for something.
    I breathed, deep slow breaths into the tears.
    Deep into my belly, long circular breaths.
    I am safe, all is well. I am safe, all is well.
    My friend will be missed, and I am ok, all is well.

    No one was more surprised than me when the feelings of crying and distress just …melted. I honestly don’t think I expected to be able to feel better without a big, nasty, messy cry. All that breath brought the feelings up through my heart, my body relaxed, and by the time I walked into see an available adviser, it was over and I was fresh and new and present.

  32.  #32Dixie on March 22, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    Sometimes it feels like I’m stopping in for a chat with girlfriends here and I LOVE that feeling!

    Millie… Bravo! It makes me feel so inspired to see you holding your boundaries with M. Wow…. It sounds like the inner shift is definitely radiating outwards 🙂

    As for the “clingy women” comment… I agree with all the comments! Yes, it sounds like he is clearly stating a desire to not be committed to someone right now, and yes, he sounds like he is trying to build himself up as a highly sought after male, and yes, it leaves an awful feeling when a man speaks so dismissively and negatively about other women.

    On the other hand.. I did date someone who was extremely clingy at the very beginning and it left me feeling suffocated. Part of it was his approach and part of it was my reluctance to open up to him further. I felt so much pressure to be the Instant Girlfriend/Future Wife! (“Just add water, offer her a commitment, a house -all within one month- and VOILA, she’ll fall in love!”)

    Anyhow, Millie, I think you handled it beautifully!

  33.  #33Angela on March 22, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    29 Beloved I love your tears!
    I sympathize with you.
    Sometimes I cry. To my guy it is too overwhelming.
    Reading your comment here doesn’t make me overwhelmed, but love your vulnerability.
    The power of crying.
    You get to start fresh.
    I love crying its healing.
    My tears are not overwhelming . I can hear you cry and know it will be ok you are whole you are still beautiful you are still strong.
    I love your tears! I love my tears. It is ok for me to cry! Yes! I love it. It isn’t overwhelming!

  34.  #34Tee on March 22, 2016 at 5:10 pm

    Sharing again. I’m so grateful for you Sirens, I’ve learned so much here. It’s been tough yet needed.

    A month or so ago, E was really upset over our “broken” stove and he kept trying to get the landlords attention to take this matter seriously. He felt we should get a new stove or don’t pay rent.

    Mind you, we were backed up in rent about 2 years ago and the landlord didn’t forget.

    E decides to put it out there to the landlord via text. New stove or no rent.
    E says, I think we’re gonna be evicted.

    I was livid! I said a few things but dropped the issue. I posted a bit about it yesterday. I had horrible thoughts of having to go back to my moms, the police showing up & putting us out, etc

    Meanwhile, E was as cool and unbothered as ever. I wanted to slap his face. 3 times! Today there’s a knock on the door, it’s the landlord. We weren’t ready for that but E got dressed, the landlord nodded towards the oven & I took Isiah across the way to my aunt’s place.

    Long story short, E came over to the apartment about 45 minutes later saying that I’d have to call my mom and tell her that he couldn’t finish the paint job tonight but he’d definitely finish before the week was up, because our landlord was gonna pay E to fix the stove!

    I can’t tell you how flabbergasted, relieved and impressed I felt! Granted, we don’t live in the best apartment or neighborhood but it’s ours and we’re making the best of it but Wow!

    It took so much to not fall apart (deep breath)

  35.  #35BeLoved on March 22, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    Angela – aw, thank you! I love, love, LOVE a good cry!
    Your post feels so beautiful and sweet to read…it flows like poetry. I appreciate when others can be ok with my tears.
    I feel I’m doing deep, sacred work when I can be present with someone who is crying, look him or her in the eye, and do nothing except lean back and be a soft, receiving presence. Sacred witness.
    I feel appreciative of me for being that for myself today.

  36.  #36Millie on March 22, 2016 at 6:22 pm

    Dixie 30– thank you!!! I feel happy with my turn around too! I think even a man who IS seeking commitment would feel turned off by a woman who is pursuing them and unable to “dance” with him. I didn’t really feel like it was derogatory to women in my opinion… I guess it depends what behavior “clingy” is actually referring to…. All I know is that I’m not clingy and I feel proud of that!

  37.  #37Tereana on March 22, 2016 at 8:35 pm

    Dixie – I agree. This is like stopping in for “girl talk.” And I love that, too. I need it, and I always come back from time to time to get that feeling of exposing my experience, getting to talk about it, and getting feedback and sometimes validation as well as challenging questions that bring me to a better place…

    Anyhoo. Speaking of Chaos…

    As usual, Rori’s posts are so timely, every time I read them. In this case, it really makes me feel lovely about my experience just this past weekend. This weekend, I allowed myself to really open up to someone who has been there for me for a long time as a friend, who I’ve gone on a few “dates” with, and maybe have considered him to be one of my “CDs,” but I never really considered him as an actual potential partner. I always thought of him as “too nice,” and it bugged me. But for the last four years, he has always been there for me. Except like maybe once. But whether or not I really “needed” him is questionable. I simply was calling on him, and he didn’t respond and I didn’t know why…but that’s a different story. Anway.

    This past weekend, I went back to the old place I used to live, and he invited me to stay with him. I didn’t know his “intentions,” but I decided not to assume anything and to just go with the flow, as it were. The chaos. I accepted his invitation, knowing that, with him, I really didn’t have to “do” anything. On the first night, nothing happened. The second night, after my friend’s wedding, and after we had had some very serious talks during the day, we kissed. And it felt good.

    The next day, we had some more intense talks. We even fought a little. But when I got agitated, I went outside and took a walk, instead of arguing and escalating the situation. I came back and calmly spoke about my feelings. I give myself a lot of points for doing that. There are many times in my life where I would not have had that self control.

    And then I really opened up. I even surprised myself. That night, we were together, and I decided that I wanted to have sex with him. It seemed maybe a little premature, and yet, I was there and that was what I wanted. I told him that. And I told him it didn’t have to “mean anything.” Although on another level, I did want it to “mean something.” But now I have to live by what I said, that it doesn’t “mean anything.”

    So yesterday I flew back, and today I am home. When I left, I asked him, “What do we do now?” He said, “I don’t know. I have no plans.” I felt a little disappointed, like maybe I wanted him to have some plans. But in fact, I shrugged and smiled and said, “Well, neither to do I.” This was true. I don’t have any plans. And actually, coming home feels good. I didn’t want to uproot my life or disrupt my plans. But for four years, he has been wanting to be with me. Even obsessed with me, a little. I have not been totally into him, but I guess I am starting to come around. And it turns out that he turns me on a lot, even though he really doesn’t look at all to me like the kind of man that would be “my man.”

    But this is me releasing into the chaos. Deciding to do what I wanted to in the moment, even though it could have been more “organized.” It wasn’t. It was chaotic. It was momentary, it was fleeting. But it was also Real. And he hasn’t made “a commitment.” But I am not here demanding one. I simply wanted to come back to my own life, and I did and I have. I get to wait and see what he does next.

  38.  #38Millie on March 22, 2016 at 8:58 pm

    I posted this on the previous thread, but if you weren’t able to listen to Michelle’s teleclass- I just listened to it and loved it! I have now listened to four different coach’s tele classes and also Rori on her videos and must say I love that while the core material is consistent with them all, each have a different way of expressing the material and getting the point across. Each has their own energy and it feels really amazing to hear how each woman has really taken the material and made it their own, shedding their own light on it. What I love about Michelle was not only her soothing English accent, but that she made me feel very meditative and like an easy stream trickling down rocks in a peaceful serene setting. I also loved how much she used visualization. This is a tool I want to try more of! I feel very grounded and connected to ME when I use it! Thank you Rori for sharing and making accessible all of these wonderful coaches!

  39.  #39Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 11:06 am

    Victoria #83
    from the previous thread…

    I really like what you said here..
    “Who knows. I suspect this lecturing is attention seeking behavior.
    May be we just need to tell them more often
    how much we love them,
    so they would not need to shake their feathers
    that much.”
    I have been considering this…
    How I have been focused on the NEGATIVE of his passion and deep interest in his religion…
    As Dominique is so good to say…
    “What we focus on GROWS!!”

    Spirit is ALWAYS sooo good at shining his upbeat positive light on EVERYONE Elses good points!!

    The last time we were out I told one of his friends all these great things about Spirit… made him feel
    SOOOO Good!
    He’s raised three AMAZING daughters,
    survived the death of his 9 yr old son…
    Changed carreers in his 60’s and is VERY successful soo quickly…
    LOTS OF GREAT THINGS ABOUT this sweet, fun man!!
    It made him feel VERY good…

    I need to keep *MY* heart focused on these things!!
    and share them often with him!!
    This builds emotional intimacy…
    Stretching my emotional muscles SIRENS!!!

  40.  #40Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 11:15 am

    Liquid Light #80
    I think this is from Sami Wunder…
    “Because this is the direction we all have to go in – forgetting about chemistry and
    opening up to love.
    Chemistry is small, superficial,
    wrongly intense, and misleading.
    Love is deep,
    big, wide, expansive,
    and lets you become your best,
    most full-bodied and fulfilled self.
    We want to deny our assumptions,
    our patterns, our bad “man pickers,”
    our chemically induced attractions
    and what we “think” about a man.
    And focus EXCLUSIVELY on allowing ourselves
    to be loved.
    And then simply choose a man
    from all the men who love us.
    Sounds simple, and it is. 
    It’s just not what we’re used to.
    It feels weird and wrong.
    but it’s the way to go.”

    I’ve been working on this!! :0))

  41.  #41Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 11:21 am

    (((TEE))) #32
    Wow… Brava Siren!
    So happy for you TEEE!!!

    I can only imagine how scared you must have felt…
    thinking you’d loose your lovely apt… YOUR OWN Space!!

    You handled this all so well..
    Did you share with E how impressed and proud you felt about what he did for you, and Isahia _ your family!!
    It always impresses me how Men CAN get things done…
    and NOT be as frightened about it as I GET!!!
    YAY E!!!

  42.  #42MissStix on March 23, 2016 at 11:32 am

    I didn’t notice until today how unaffected and soooo relaxed I was last night and how good it felt. It feels good to think back and see how I was just me and how great I am when i’m just me without hang ups.

    So far today I feel very mellow. A feeling close to being tired without the sleepyness. It feels nice 🙂

  43.  #43Liquid Light on March 23, 2016 at 12:17 pm

    Azure 38, Thanks so much for posting this. Wow! This is perfect, and so interesting to read. I’m going to try to apply this to my latest CDs! Thanks sweetie, you are the best!!!

  44.  #44Tee on March 23, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    #39 Azure Blue,

    I was soooooo scared & I totally forgot to thank him or express appreciation. Isiah had fallen asleep at my aunts & he didnt seem to be feeling so well so our focus kinda shifted but man what a day!

    I’ve never learned that men can get things done because none of the women in my family know how to allow a man to do anything. For the women I know, it’s an issue of impatience and control.

    As I said, E is painting my mother’s living room. She was supposed to wait to go with E to pick up the right paint from the store. As usual, she wasn’t going to wait. She waits until after E does the prep to tell him that she doesn’t like the paint, it needs to be done over.

    If that were me lol I would have left.
    E can be a bit more diplomatic. He went with my mom back to the store where he bought the correct paint.

    This is the type of women in my family.
    E tells my aunt to stop giving Isiah cookies & such because it makes it harder for us to get him to eat at dinner. I hear her mumble under her breath that she’ll give Isiah whatever the F she wants. Another discussion ensues, we all come to terms.

    Where I’m from, men aren’t leaders, they’re to be ignored, etc. It’s kinda encouraged in a way, to treat men as though they don’t count.

    So when E asserts some authority lol it takes alot to not freak out. I do appreciate that he loves me enough to deal head-on with these women lol he’s respectful yet firm, he doesn’t back down

    It can be so nerve-wracking

  45.  #45Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Liquid Light!!
    You are sooo welcome lovely Light!! :0))

    This part resonates with me right now…

    “focus EXCLUSIVELY on allowing ourselves
    to be loved.”
    For some reason it is SOOO difficult for me to just lean back and RELAX and let this wonderful man
    LOVE **ME**
    Working on it!!

  46.  #46MissStix on March 23, 2016 at 3:01 pm

    Azure 38

    Great stuff! Oh I like that…

  47.  #47Angela on March 23, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    So now that I gave up on the relationship, sorta,
    He is back. The sex was gone and i didn’t push it, didn’t try.
    The romance was gone and I let it be.
    I feel like something in me shifted.
    I dont worry about what he is doing anymore.
    What he is thinking, who he talks with when he is at work.
    He came home today and hugged me.
    Wanted sex. Wanted to do all the things I begged of him when I was his obsessed with him.
    He began telling me that he wanted to have kids with me.
    That I was only his.
    I said I really dont know about the kids anymore at least not now.

    He definitely picked up on my energy shift.
    I feel fear. I am getting to know so many great guys.
    I feel sad for him.
    I dont know if we are even compatible anymore we are so different.
    I know Rori talks about creating chemistry which is what we did.
    I went along with him because he was sure we wanted me.
    Now i dont know. He hurt me so much was confused about me ran away from me, wasn’t sure if he loved me anymore deprived me of sex said he didnt believe in my dreams. 🙁
    I am afraid if I leave him I will not be able to find a good quality man.
    I feel conflicted. I am not 100 % happy in this relationship
    He is lazy, hates when I cry, sees things differently, he wants to be the feminine energy in this relationship.
    But he is not a cheater he is a good man. He just wants to be loved all the time spoiled all the time.
    Ahhh what to do?
    I feel confusion.

  48.  #48MissStix on March 23, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    I recognize how and where I block love in my life.
    Not everything can be tagged with a reason.
    I can just let it be. Let it be…

    I notice a seeking energy driving me from between my shoulder blades. Urgent energy. I feel compelled to make something happen.

    Love is…
    Warm, inviting, soft, melty comfort. It feels soothing and relaxing. It washes away my fears and whispers softly in my ear.
    It tingles in my nose and lifts the corners of my lips.
    It stirs something deep in my consciousness.
    It is powerful, passionate, and purposeful.
    Love holds space for melting down into the darkest places within me and guides me through forgiveness.
    It reminds me I am not mighty or important enough to destroy it. I can let it in completely…
    The thought feels tantalizing. I feel ready.

  49.  #49Angela on March 23, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    The answers are in me I know.
    Yes it will only take time to discover what is next.
    I trust myself more now.
    I am not afraid of losing him anymore.
    But I wonder if women can truly have it all.
    A great man that doesn’t trigger us so much, a lot of chemistry, passion, and romance. I

  50.  #50Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Tee #42
    I have learned I am best at sharing my appreciation AFTER Spirit has given me something, or taken care of something or made me feel safe and cared for…
    A lot of times I text him about how cherished I feel when he does….. or ….. thank you…
    He LOVES this…
    I wonder how is would feel to you to say to E:
    “E, I feel so proud of how diplomatic you were when my Mom asked you to redo the paint.”
    “E, I do appreciate that you love me enough to deal head-on with these women. LOL. You’re respectful yet firm.” I love you for this.”

  51.  #51Azure Blu on March 23, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    For some reason 2 of my comments have gone into moderation… :-))
    They should show up soon!

  52.  #52Angela on March 23, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Rori has so many great articles on what to do when the romance is gone. How to recreate the relationship.
    To attract your man more.
    What about when we lose feelings for the man when we are the confused ones?
    Will a man have to change completely too?
    Make us fall in love all over again?
    That feels exciting to think about. 🙂

  53.  #53Indigo on March 23, 2016 at 6:13 pm

    I feel a very flowy, nervous energy in me nowadays.

    Like nothing much matters too much at the moment. Don’t ask me to explain this logically because I can’t. I feel as if the day to day stuff is just unimportant and dust. On some level, I want to make it important, I want to have things that are important all around me, but on another level I feel inexplicably that it isn’t my time yet. I don’t know why it is taking so long, I don’t know why I have to wait so long, but that isn’t good or bad, it just is. I also feel that there is nothing I can do to speed things up or make it happen faster, I just have to wait it out.

  54.  #54Posie on March 23, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    Moving slowly from my toes upwards, there is a kind and quiet resignation.

    He is the most masculine, silent, and powerful man I have ever known… And he cares about me. In a very genuine way that makes me feel safe and sweet and excited.

    He likes to make me smile.

    I like to make him daydream by writing him stories that tempt his imagination and invite anticipation.

    He can not pursue me. He will not ever pursue me.

    He is 20 years older and a very high ranking executive in my office. Taking the lead would easily jeopardize his entire career. So he moves cautiously through small gestures. His sincerity is not in doubt. He feels vulnerable by his own affection for me, I’m sure of it. And he knows he has to exercise restraint. I know it too.

    Sometimes he forgets that restraint. Like a couple months ago, middle of the night, a small and warm message from him in my email. That was not an insignificant thing.

    I think about placing my hand on his chest and leaning forward to bring my cheek next to his so I can slowly smell the skin on his neck. Vivid. Drifting on longing.

    But this isn’t really a possible thing. It’s an unavailable thing and it does some damage to keep dreaming about it when it just can’t ever be reality.

    There is no discussion to be had with him about it. There is no move to make. I care about him, am drawn to him. And I’m sure he to me. But there is a very real kinship and professional credibility to risk.

    Moving slowly from my toes upwards, there is a kind and quiet resignation.

  55.  #55Mandy on March 24, 2016 at 7:51 am

    Formless matter! Wow! That’s deep Rori! I love it…I feel a huge understanding both emotionally and mentally of this blog post.

    This is what I learned about in Philosophy class…the natural order of things is that chaos is a constant….naturally things get jumbled….messed up…out of order. That’s just how the universe works.

    Simply put…to work against chaos is to work against the universe. 🙂

    That is so cool. I can think of that and back up from lots of tiny situations and know that…this is true and always will be, so I think of the universe as this vast space, and me literally diving right into and it is a good image for letting go of the anxiety that everything should be orderly…fear and anxiety of the future, etc.

    What a simple way to be able to tap into that.

  56.  #56Mandy on March 24, 2016 at 8:06 am

    Aw. Angela…I feel for you in your situation. Want to give you a big huge hug…

    I was in the exact same situation not too long ago. The problem was my then boyfriend would drink a lot and got so lazy he wouldn’t even move a finger to try to have sex with me, and one time I went for seven months without sex because of him and his laziness. I was so…SO utterly sad I would just go into my room and shut the door and sob quietly. Whenever a love scene came into the TV on a show I’d cry silently.

    Eventually I got so tired, one Christmas, I realized…I was wasting my time wanting him to change his behavior, he wasn’t going to change, and I would be 80 years old by the time he did, if he did…So I dumped him, and it was the first time I ever dumped a guy…

    I’m not saying you should do what I did…just saying I feel for you and I know how you feel… Circular Dating very much pulled me out of it, I don’t feel so weird now that I am being talked to by at least 3 male friends, not sleeping with, just talking to, it feels so much better to have options and to choose to me…

    But your confusion won’t last forever, the comforting thing can be…either it will work out or you will eventually get tired of it…

    I felt very very scared when Rori’s advice on this issue was if the sex stops be done with him, but she wants us to be cold on that issue…no sex, he’s opting out of the relationship without actually leaving, possibly because of convenience and you taking care of him. Unfortunately if they think of us as motherly…they won’t want to have sex. It took me so long to realize it, I have so much feeling to express on that matter I am actually having trouble riffing about it.

    I would just like to say you’re not alone, and I feel for you very much. And this too shall pass! <3

  57.  #57MissStix on March 24, 2016 at 9:28 am


    I have also been in a relationship (marriage) where sex was withheld for weeks, sometimes months on end. It felt devastating. Even touch was witheld. It felt like…crying out in the darkness and no one to hear or care. Physically painful.

    It took me years to cleanse myself of the desperate energy that clung from my experience. The pleading energy hung on well into the relationship with the man i’m with now and I know it actually blocked sexual intimacy with this man. I know this because after I shed all that energy he so suddenly became hot for me all the time. He started making love to me like he hadn’t before. And that was a couple years into our relationship. And now even more years later he maintains his persuit of sexual intimacy with me and I don’t have to do anything.

    It is so important (it was for me) to move away from that energy. To leave the man I felt I needed to beg for love and to not put that energy onto new partners.

  58.  #58Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 11:42 am

    I have been trying to leave a few comments but they go into moderation…. :-((

  59.  #59Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 11:43 am

    Liquid Light!! #41
    You are sooo welcome lovely Light!! :0))

    This part resonates with me right now…

    “focus EXCLUSIVELY on allowing ourselves
    to be loved.”
    For some reason it is SOOO difficult for me to just lean back and RELAX and let this wonderful man
    LOVE **ME**
    Working on it!!

  60.  #60Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 11:46 am

    MissStix #45
    Love this;;;;
    “Love is…
    Warm, inviting, soft, melty comfort.
    It feels soothing and relaxing.
    It washes away my fears and
    whispers softly in my ear.
    It tingles in my nose and
    lifts the corners of my lips.
    It stirs something deep in my consciousness.
    It is powerful, passionate,
    and purposeful.
    Love holds space for melting down
    into the darkest places within me
    and guides me through forgiveness.

  61.  #61Indigo on March 24, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    MissStix 52,

    Thank you for sharing your experience:

    “t took me years to cleanse myself of the desperate energy that clung from my experience. The pleading energy hung on well into the relationship with the man i’m with now and I know it actually blocked sexual intimacy with this man. I know this because after I shed all that energy he so suddenly became hot for me all the time. He started making love to me like he hadn’t before. And that was a couple years into our relationship. And now even more years later he maintains his persuit of sexual intimacy with me and I don’t have to do anything.”

    It was extremely helpful to me today.

  62.  #62Angela on March 24, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    Mandy, thank you for that hug! 🙂
    Im sending you one too!
    “Eventually I got so tired, one Christmas, I realized…I was wasting my time wanting him to change his behavior, he wasn’t going to change, and I would be 80 years old by the time he did, if he did…So I dumped him, and it was the first time I ever dumped a guy…”

    I am slowly getting tired of this too.
    Mandy, I love the place where you are at now.
    Feels to me, in a much better place, focusing on you.
    I want to be there too!
    It sucks, once I knew I had other options he is trying to have sex again.
    Now it is my turn to find out if this is what I want.
    I am not afraid of walking away.
    You are so on point when you say , “possibly because of convenience and you taking care of him.”
    I have spoiled, babied him, put up with his tantrums for too long.
    It hurts that I let myself feel this insecure this desperate.
    It feels like pain in my heart when I realize that I forgot how it felt to be loved and admired. 🙁
    Yet, its ok.
    I am totally rediscovering my power now.
    I need more clarity, but when the time comes i trust i will now what to do; end the relationship because it is boring and sexless, or keep it because he is a good men that somehow loves me.
    Hmm Evan Marc Katz article on dumping a good quality man for not giving great sex is on my mind right now.
    In it though, the man is amazing.
    He has so many great qualities he just lacks in the sex department.
    Hmm is my man amazing?
    Hmm what do i love about him?
    Hes here… he’s just here, he won’t cheat, he is a man good and handy with tools, hardworker…..sweet and affectionate sometimes….
    Yikes idk

    I want love!
    I want connection and we dont even have it.
    Or do we, and I dont know ?
    WIll i be losing something good?
    All my friends think he is not good for me. My friends have bfs they love and respect bfs who help around the house, bf who give, bf who surprise with gifts, bfs who are friends with them…
    Ahh so much confusion
    I trust that I will know what to decide, that I will choose happiness and that life wants me to be happy.
    I guess somehow I fear I will be punished if I leave him.
    I won’t be punished that is crazy , life wants me to be joyful!
    And he will be happy too!

  63.  #63Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    Posie #49
    I feel sad reading what you shared…
    To me this sounds like an imaginary relationship…
    and this man (no matter how powerful) is taking up space in your heart
    that should be filled with a man that is AVAILABLE, talking to you everyday and asking you out on wonderful fun dates…
    YOU deserve a REAL man, lovely Siren!

  64.  #64Posie on March 24, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    I agree Azure. But no ill-intention on either of our parts. My heart followed that magnet and I feel grateful to have had some connection, whatever it was or wasn’t. It was never once dishonest. Never unkind. So I don’t feel sad so much. It was just never possible.

    But it’s kindly leaving me now. Slowly and softly letting go. Nice memories. Looking in a new direction.

  65.  #65Dixie on March 24, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    Miss Stix 52:
    ““t took me years to cleanse myself of the desperate energy that clung from my experience. The pleading energy hung on well into the relationship with the man i’m with now and I know it actually blocked sexual intimacy with this man. I know this because after I shed all that energy he so suddenly became hot for me all the time. He started making love to me like he hadn’t before. And that was a couple years into our relationship. And now even more years later he maintains his persuit of sexual intimacy with me and I don’t have to do anything.”

    Ohhhh, this hit the right chord with me! This is sadly how I felt for years in marriage and yes, it can a long time for that energy to dissipate. I still sometimes struggle with that now: when I was younger, before the infidelity in the marriage, I felt so sexually powerful and grounded but after years of begging and feeling so awful, that energy ….I don’t know where it went.

    Even now with D, there is always this feeling of having to measure up, which is truly my own “stuff” since he tells me snd shows me how much he desires me. I hope that one day I can feel confident enough to shed all those protective layers that I created!

  66.  #66Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    Angela #57
    Huggs darlling Siren!!

    Rori Says:
    “Let yourself guide yourself.
    Trust will come.
    You’ll learn what you need to learn
    for the next baby step,
    and you’ll become braver
    every time you move from INSIDE YOUR HEART
    instead of from anything
    your head tells you to do.
    Baby steps
    and loving on the chaos
    is the only way.”

  67.  #67Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    (((Posie))) #49
    Soooo glad to hear gentle Siren!
    You are brave and can do this!!

  68.  #68Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    Angela #57
    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    Yur vulnerable energetic sharing is Wonderful!
    yOU Wrote:
    “It hurts that I let myself feel this insecure
    this desperate.
    It feels like pain in my heart when I realize
    that I forgot how it felt to be loved and admired. 🙁
    Yet, its ok.
    I need more clarity, but when the time comes i trust i will now what to do;”

    I have found that the men I choose to be with at any time
    is the measure with which I LOVE MYSELF,
    Appreciate ME Respect Me (or NOT)…
    My mirror…
    and as I LOVE me MORE… I DO let go,
    Let GO of anyone who doesn’t treat ME Like a princess and DIVA
    that I now Know I AM!!

    You Sound like you are moving quickly to MORE Love
    From YOU TO YOU!!!

  69.  #69Azure Blu on March 24, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    I have also found… the MORE I LOVE ME…
    the less I am worried/desparate about finding A man…
    And also KNOW that the Universe
    wants me to have the man that Completes ME
    and makes me feel Special and Adored!!
    and fits in and enhances MY HappilyEverAfter!!

  70.  #70Millie on March 24, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    My feminine energy feels the opposite of chaos to me…I’ve noticed. Feeling grounded, clear, stable. When I feel chaotic it is when my insecurities and negative voices are ruling. Maybe this is another growth for me, to allow all of my impulses in the moment and BE truly. I don’t know how to explain it, but it feels like allowing messiness into my life without trying to contain it.

    I feel super excited for this wknd…going to be spending lots of time with my guy friend T. 🙂 We have plans sat night by ourselves. I don’t know what will happen, but I feel so over the moon excited! I’ve never enjoyed a man’s company so much. I feel like I’ve gotten to a place where I don’t care about “whats next” as much, I really just treasure what he is giving me now, in the present, without worry.

    Haven’t heard from M since the other night. I feel like when he and do talk, laughter, silliness, and flirting is seriously missing. That makes me sad. His words have been bringing a seriousness out in me. I wonder if he is afraid to “go there” because then he will actually realize he wants to be with me! He keeps the conversation in a certain tone as to not elevate it…so he’s in control. Hmmm, I wonder how I can shake that? How can I experiment with being playful in a nonsexual way that reflects how I’m feeling with me lately…I don’t know, just wondering how that would feel.

  71.  #71Tee on March 24, 2016 at 9:31 pm

    Ok so yesterday (March 24th) was my birthday and it kinda sucked. Isiah was home again with another fever & E was just busy. He’s been running around trying to find the right piece for our stove, helping his mother with her roof as well as trying to coordinate schedules with my mom so he can finish painting…And he just told me that on Monday he’s going to see about another job. Smh lol

    I had a few texts, calls and Facebook messages but that was all. I tried to refocus on my boy. I hate when he’s not feeling well, I think he has teeth trying to come in, in the back of his mouth.

    He’s been very clingy & tired. I didn’t outwardly complain.

    Out of nowhere, E sends me a text saying that he knows that today was supposed to be about ME and he’d make it up to me next week. He apologizes. He said that we went out a few times & he thinks that he did ok with the money that he had. He said he knows where his faults are, he said that he tends to blame me when he feels upset & he apologizes for that.

    All I said was, Thanks lol
    My initial reaction was to ask questions but I didnt. I did save the text.
    It felt good to be on the receiving end of that, to feel like I maybe played some part in his personal revelation somehow. Not from an egotistical standpoint but it feels cool knowing that I’m allowing (?) him to grow

    He came home and he told me all about his day 🙂

  72.  #72Azure Blu on March 25, 2016 at 4:16 am

    Happy Birthday Siren, Diva, Goddess!!

    March 24th is my Moms birthday also…
    She was 90 yr old. :-))

    Wow!! Tee… you sound like you are stretching your Siren wings and taking care of YOU more
    and appreciating alllllll the wonderfulness of E!!
    Great job Siren!!!

    So sorry to hear your son is not welll… especially on your birthday! :-((

    How would it feel to say to E some feeling messages?
    “I feel so happy and loved when you say things like that!”
    or “My heart melts when you share your thoughts with me…”

    For Spirit and I – as I get better (still a struggle) at expressing my appreciation for what he DOES
    in feeling messages
    seems to bring him closer and he becomes even more loving!

  73.  #73Azure Blu on March 25, 2016 at 4:18 am

    Happy Happy Birthday Tee!!!
    I hope this coming year is filled with ALL
    the LOVE you deserve
    and Sunshine Lolipops and Rainbows full
    of success and piles of $$$

  74.  #74Kim on March 25, 2016 at 5:08 am

    Hi ladies…talking of chaos. Wedding planning lol.
    I wonder if anyone has advice on dealing with a relative who isn’t happy about the marriage.
    I am gobsmacked, because when we announced our engagement, friends and family on both sides sent us congrats, flowers and everybody was so so happy for us.
    We never heard a peep from his sister, and when my guy called her to tell her (before anyone else because they are very close), she put the phone down on him saying she was not well and couldn’t talk.
    I thought nothing of it honestly – I am naive lol.
    So we begin to send out invitations and he is trying to coordinate us staying in the same hotel with my dad and her.
    She doesn’t pick the phone up for two weeks after which she has a tantrum and says she is nit coming because we set the date without comsulting her. She is convinced we set the date to suit MY family.
    Now, not true. We had a window of two dates and I asked my family which they can make, well sorry they are coming from another continent and still work…while she is two hours away from us and it’s on a Saturday. We did try to ask her but see above: she didn’t pick up the phone.
    This is not all…I practically forced my guy to invite his cousins whom he has no real contact anymore, so she would have someone from her family and feel good at OUR wedding…because she is close to them. So we are paying more to make her comfy, and get accused of not considering her. Lol.
    So for some reason, I guess she is jealous and upset and thinks she is losing her brother or whatever else….
    she defriended us on facebook!!!!!
    Never congratulated us!!!! Nothing. Just jealousy, upset and tantrums.
    Then suddenly she does a 360 degree, calls him and says theatrically ‘if you really want me there I will come’ – to him.
    So of course, she now manipulated him to say ‘anything you want, yes we want you there’ and kissing her feet…after we have been snubbed lol

    Now I feel pissed. After all that drama, I don’t want her there. I am not inviting my crazy mother because she is the same, always about her and never happy for others – and a manipulator. Drama Queen.

    We are having a tiny gathering of select family and friends, we want a happy party. I am scared that she will cause drama…she has special dietary needs, doesn’t like heat, likely will demand bring driven around or just generally make a fuss, on top of being unhappy about us getting married. It’s a ticking time bomb and my guy is scared to say anything to her!

    He says he can’t control anyone else. Well, I was kind of hoping that she might apologize or – at least – say congrats to your engagement. Something. Anything other than disrespect, unfriending on fb and all that nonsense. Nevermind the fact that she never wishes me happy birthday (I do her), or answers any of my emails/messages, like ‘happy new year’ or whatever. I never said anything and just stopped and kinda shrugged it off but now I am about to explode lol.
    Plus, if she doesn’t rent a car our 3 day honeymoon is also ruined as he will have to spend a day driving her to the airport and back down. All this for someone who is livid that we get married…

    If it had been one of my relatives, I would have told them to either be civil and happy or no need to come. I am thinking, since we had similar here before when she was here (her way or the highway), that this is setting a precedent for the next 40 years of my life….her being rude and my guy catering to it. And me having to keep the peace. Ugh.

    I am in a conundrum, I want him to have her there, but I don’t want to feel awkward on my own wedding day, of all things, or dreading any drama. Which is likely. I don’t know how to handle this situation. If I ignore it all I feel my stomach in knots. If I say anything, I am the one in the wrong.
    Should I just ignore and let her be drama queen, or should I speak to her when she gets here? Or speak to him to ask her to behave lol. He said he can’t.
    Chaos lol

  75.  #75Victoria on March 25, 2016 at 5:43 am

    You know advice giving is forbidden here, right?
    With this disclaimer, I would like to offer the following opinion. Until you marry a man, he has as family his parents and siblings. They take a priority, by right. Once you marry him, you and your future children take priority over his biological family. So no, you will not be setting a precendent for the next 40 years. Quite on the contrary, this is THE LAST TIME EVER in which she or any other relative will take priority over you.
    I would say, put up with her as your last tribute to the blood ties your fiance has, and as of the date of your wedding be sure to be the number one priority.
    And, your stomach does not have to be in knots in putting up with her. You know you are a saint, you can feel your angel wings, and you can visualise yourself blissfully flying over her head. Yes, you can do this. 🙂

  76.  #76Victoria on March 25, 2016 at 5:54 am

    If you allow me to add, your not inviting your mother to the wedding is not the same as him not inviting his sister. Regarding your mother, it is your choice, it is not as if you love her, but he can’t stand her, and you have to decide between him and her. Just pointing it out.
    Also, why not invite your mother anyhow? With the fussy sister around, you will be already stressed out, seat them together on the same table and watch the show. I am teasing you a little bit here, but the things is, honestly, I think you need to invite your mother, whatever she is. Just my two cents. I know, I know, I got carried away :-))

  77.  #77Kim on March 25, 2016 at 6:08 am

    Lol Victoria.
    I don’t have too much choice because I am certainly not going to feed the lion lol. The drama I mean.
    I also don’t want to be a push-over which is what I usually am…and then explode. I do want to know how to set healthy boundaries, which is difficult because my fiance doesn’t have them. It’s something that has always been a little problem with us, he will do anything to keep the peace – which ends up doing the opposite lol.
    As to the likely drama she brings to the actual wedding day with her high maintenance whims…how do I handle that…because I am pretty sure it will happen. He wanted her to be his best man. Don’t ask. If she holds a speech, what will she say, considering she has defriended us, is unhappy about the wedding and doesn’t speak to me…I mean…lol.
    It has the possibility to ruin the wedding day plus the short honeymoon…in some ways I want to set some boundaries to prevent it all going south.
    Cause that defeats the object. I want to feel happy, not worried and awkward.

  78.  #78Kim on March 25, 2016 at 6:15 am

    My mother is mentally ill and has broken all contact with the family, including me. She stole money from me and other things. So no.
    No way.
    Having said that, ironically, she might turn up if I invited her and at family events she used to have some decorum. The rest of my family, however, would cancel if she came lol.
    No way.
    And ironically, the sister reminds me of my mother a lot. Manipulative ‘poor me’, everything is about them, they hate everyone and can’t stand to see other people happy, can’t have relationships or even lasting friendships.

    I catered to that for 19 years of my life and longer.
    I don’t feel willing to cater to it anymore, frankly. And certainly not on my wedding day, I don’t want to spend it in constant fear.

  79.  #79Kim on March 25, 2016 at 6:21 am

    Guess I’ll just suck it up and hope for the best….lol

  80.  #80BeLoved on March 25, 2016 at 7:59 am

    Kim – I wonder if can you just say to MoM, in your own Kim way, Hey, I want you all to myself for all three days of our honeymoon and I don’t want to share you with anyone else, can you figure out how to make that happen?

  81.  #81Kim on March 25, 2016 at 8:08 am

    Good idea beloved. Although there is some family staying around us already, just that they are autonomous and can do their own thing….so yea…it will be something else to navigate. Typically, when she wants something or to go somewhere, he jumps to attention.
    Now, it might not happen like that when we are down there but chances are if she has no transportantion, my groom will be held hostage for the duration of her stay. Supermarkets for her special diet, airport etc.
    Anyway, I have told him I will suck it up for his sake.
    However, I do not want her to make a speech or be the best man. So we hopefully have a compromise.
    I seriously do not need someone to be a special part in the ceremony and make a fake speech when they don’t even speak to me…lol.
    Else I am going to be the better person here and be polite and civil…as long as everybody behaves in a decent way anyway.

  82.  #82Kim on March 25, 2016 at 8:20 am

    I must say, I do feel a little shocked and sad. I naively believed everyone and especially her, would be happy for us and would be happy for her brother.
    On the other hand, we had so many people express their joy to us, and that also surprised me.
    I guess you win some and you lose some.
    I had not expected the hostility.
    There was a point when we had spoken about eloping and he said that his sister always wanted to be at his wedding. LOL.
    So then I felt that I should invite my family also…
    And then we decided to have a ceremony.
    So honestly, now I am gobsmacked when we could have just eloped and have had none of this nonsense lol

  83.  #83Starla on March 25, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    Kim, weddings are stressful nonsense and the drama happens to pretty much every bride. I give you total permission to completely ignore all of the drama and not care at all :D. Please don’t let it get to you. It’s not worth it. No more being gobsmacked. It’s a poor use of your energy and we don’t want the bride being all wrinkly from stress, now do we.
    It really doesn’t matter if she makes a speech. It won’t taint your marriage. Your stressing out and being demanding about it, on the other hand, will totally taint things. I would plan to go on a honeymoon after the sister’s gone. It’s not uncommon to put off a honeymoon for a few days anymore.
    As for not being able to elope — I feel you! We are not engaged but have done some light wedding planning here and there, and my conclusion is I would rather elope. But it’s unrealistic, and weddings really are about your family and community in addition to the happy couple. Most people fantasize about eloping, few actually do it unless it’s their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th marriage. Take comfort in knowing that statistics show that eloping is associated with higher divorce rates, too.

  84.  #84Liquid Light on March 25, 2016 at 1:32 pm


    Really sorry to hear about the sister in law’s behavior. That really is too bad. But seems like you are already doing this: focusing on all the positive and supportive people in your life that are really happy for you and your fiancé. And also that you are getting MARRIED! Way to go, girl, you are an inspiration to all of us! 🙂

    Big hugs, LL

  85.  #85Mandy on March 25, 2016 at 2:04 pm



    OMG…I know it’s hard!!! But you’re doing the exact thing you need to right now to get through it, it doesn’t happen overnight…making a big decision like that does not happen overnight…and I feel I beat myself up for awhile for not doing it right away, dumping J….but I couldn’t just do it overnight…

    But I feel you are in the right place right now in your perspective…and yes…it took some crying but I feel free and happy now…and I’m having wonderful times with my CDs…so much wonder and mystery filling up those spaces that were empty…

    So much giving coming towards me…even if something happens that is a bit of a bump in the road, I am able to choose who I spend time with..and lately I find…the person I want to spend time with right now is….ME!!!!

    I have gotten back into being with me, being me, and not apologizing for it.

  86.  #86Mandy on March 25, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    The most thrilling thing thus far has been this one man, who I seem to have opted out of seeing a few times because of fear, or being physically tired…he’s still coming to me asking to be around me. When we are together, especially intimately, he smiles so warmly it’s like it melts my heart like a candle underneath heat. He just grins and treats me to some seriously juicy intimacy, laughs, good conversation and relaxation – I hung out with him last Saturday and I couldn’t believe it…his warmth totally brought me out of my funk!!!

    I have been happily confused because this man, who I call Dancing Wolf, is very much a fan of visual stimulus, sexually speaking (i.e., porn, strip clubs, etc), which I have no problem with, I think I have it a bit easier than most with that because I have a visual appreciation of women as well, and can understand and share that and I actually prefer having a guy around who will share that instead of keep it separate from me, but Rori has mentioned before some men are like this, and it’s a matter of can you be happy with it or not, and some find they cannot…I’m just mentioning it and checking it, so as to be careful. I check in on my feelings with it all the time, and it’s funny because Dancing Wolf will talk about a model he has a school-boy crush on, and it just gives me ideas of what he likes in the bedroom, so I take it as a hint, lol. I haven’t even experienced one ounce of jealousy, though if I did, I think it would probably bring me into my vulnerability, anyway.

    I just hope it’s not bad that I have said hello to him first and asked him if he feels like company. It hasn’t pushed him away…he said over and over again, that I can come by whenever I want, and to just ask him, especially if I am feeling down or stressed, he wants to provide that space for me, as if he were feeling protective. I have to at least give it a thought that I might be leaning forward…but if he asks me to do it, it’s confusing because I’m trained to believe initiating is not going to get me where I want to be, which is treated like a goddess…

    So I’m not sure exactly what’s going on there, but it does feel good! I just can’t shake the warmth and positive energy. He feels like a man who actually has respect and care for women in general, and is very much a supporter of women, a He-For-She type of guy, and always tells me I can come and hang out with him and relax or do whatever I want around him anytime I want, just ask, and he spoils me with lots of touching and sensual interaction, foreplay, smiles and grins, and I can tell he’s open to me too, because he’s usually a quiet person, but with me, he just shares and shares, and this guy has been so consistent, so good with keeping up with me and patient, I can’t help but notice.

  87.  #87Kim on March 25, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light 🙂
    Starla lol. Both of us did not care about celebrating all that much, so eloping seemed a great idea. Those statistics yea well, statistically speaking a 46 year old who was never married or engaged never gets married or engaged either. Haha!
    I don’t think it’s demanding to want my wedding day to go smoothly, frankly. I am not going to give this more attention than it deserves but I feel a little self righteous and gracious to agree to her attending at all after all this nonsense and the defriending and accusing me of having planned the wedding date to spite her – honestly. Everybody has a different tolerance level and a different vision for their wedding. Ours was to spend a relaxed and casual day with those we love and who love us. That’s it. We don’t need to appease anyone at our age, or have a if wedding for show or whatever.
    I certainly won’t have anyone be involved in the immediate ceremony who won’t speak to me…lol…HELLOOOOO I AM THE BRIDE!
    That’s not being demanding, that’s just common sense…

  88.  #88Kim on March 25, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    we have a tiny wedding and have been pretty selective with guests, no wider family really and just closest friends. Plus we are paying for everything ourselves so really, we are free to do what we want and not do conventions or have to say please/thank you to anyone. Which is great…
    I am looking forward to just having a nice day. Nothing more – and also nothing less.

  89.  #89Starla on March 25, 2016 at 3:45 pm

    Hehehe bridezilla it up:-)
    I hope it’s a beautiful day.

  90.  #90Kim on March 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    Haha Starla, I think I am missing the Bridezilla gene honestly, but maybe I could learn? Lol

  91.  #91Kim on March 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    Haha Starla, I think I am missing the Bridezilla gene honestly, but maybe I could learn? Lol

  92.  #92Tee on March 25, 2016 at 7:57 pm

    Ok ladies, I’m flabbergasted. Seems like the better my life gets, the weirder that I get.

    So tonight E suggests that we all go to my mom’s house this weekend. So my mother was ok with it, she’ll pick us up at her usual time.

    E decides to leave before she shows, I’m like Dude…wtf! He says if he’s not back in time, he’ll meet us there.
    I figure he’s doing wrong, I’m upset but we leave for my mother’s anyway.

    We get to my mothers, she leaves too so it’s just my sister, me & Isiah playing around.

    Out of nowhere, I get another text from E. He said that everyone is always mad at him thinking that he’s doing wrong but he’s trying to buy this house for us so he has to do what he has to do.

    I’m sitting there like WHAT?

    I’m suffering from extreme disbelief right now. So many questions, how, when, where, etc

    A part of me is like Wow, a house, I’m impressed. Another part wonders where it is, I don’t see the point in leaving one not-so-great place/area just to live in another not-so-great place/area.

    I’m trying to not be negative but I’m literally blown away again!
    I don’t know what to think or feel lol

    AND after months and months of silence, it appears that I have 3 potential employers who seem interested in me!

  93.  #93Millie on March 26, 2016 at 1:11 am

    M told me he was on a blind date tonight with a girl who has my same name. I asked how it was going and he said awesome. I started to feel so many feelings come up, like I wish it was me… I miss him…. Why is he telling me this…. I don’t want to feel replaced…why doesn’t he want to date me… Ugh. So what came up in response was me saying that I felt it was time for me to say goodbye. He texted back a sad face.

    I feel sad… Even though he isn’t capable of giving me the relarionship I want, a part of me was hoping things would turn around and become rekindled. He obviously wants to date others and not me and I can’t stand by and watch. I don’t know what to say if he reaches out again… I feel like he felt interested in my dating other people and is trying to turn the tables… Is he trying to make me jealous? If so, it worked. I am jealous. It hurts knowing that he only sees me now as a sexual desire and not more…

    If he reaches out and asks why I am doing this I feel like saying that I don’t feel the need to explain anymore. I support his happiness but cannot be a part of his life if our communication is reduced to telling each other about the dates we go on and just sexual desire. As much as I hoped our connection could grow, we have hit a ceiling and this isn’t going anywhere except in circles. This doesn’t feel good and I need to remove myself. Please do not contact me anymore.

    But the truth is I do want him to contact me. I want him to feel excited and happy talking to me and yearn for my presence in his life once again. I want what we had plus so much more back…. Why is this desire still present after all he has done and after all I have learned? My mind knows this desire should not exist and I ask my heart why it does…. But maybe there isn’t a logical explanation to desire… There is a logical explanation for our choices. My choices have to follow what I know here… As much as I want to trust my heart that there is still a possibility here for real love, I have to distance myself and allow my heart, body, and mind to truly align itself. I have done all I am here and it is time to give up, give up expressing and being open. I have to be closed now.

  94.  #94Millie on March 26, 2016 at 1:48 am

    Did he feel what I’m feeling now? When I told him I had a date? He texted the next day asked how it went, did we kiss, did I sleep with him, and the following week, asking hows the new guy, is he in my bed….now here I am wondering the same things about him! This feels so unhealthy…. two people hyper curious about each other’s dating lives, probably both hoping it would have a negative outcome, that the other person would look back on us…Is he thinking that?? Oh no…why am I in his head? Why am I in this place, wondering what he is thinking again? Why can’t he just ADMIT he still has feelings for me…. and if he doesn’t then STOP this. If he has feelings for me, then lets see what happens….let’s go for it. If he doesn’t then I can’t be in this place… I am the prize.. and I feel like he is playing games with me…at least I feel that… I feel crazy right now…not grounded at all..chaos has entered the building….feelings everywhere…this isn’t right! this feels strange… I don’t like this. I can’t admit my feelings to him…that’s terrible, this power play. I don’t want to pretend not to care when I do… I want to sleep, but this has disrupted my evening. I wonder if he’s dancing with her…kissing her….saying my name. This is just so awful feeling right now. Did he go through this? Or did he just not care…. he did..because he asked about it! To feed his ego?? Oh I’m a mess right now…. I just have to focus on the wonderful time I will have with T tomorrow and how happy I feel with him. This person who is honest and truthful who honors my feelings. Who I have so much fun with and who shows me what I truly value and want with a man.. ugh can I get out of my skin.

  95.  #95Indigo on March 26, 2016 at 3:02 am


    I’ve dealt with the jealous sister thing before – twice. And I know it feels pretty sh!tty. To know that someone so close to your man is not happy for you, and not being able to understand the reason why.

    I don’t really have any great advice, I just wanted to say that I sympathise. I dealt with it in my most recent relationship, and to be honest I determined going forward I would never let it get to me again. Your man has chosen you, and that is enough, has to be enough. His family is just going to have to learn to live with it, or not. But you can take comfort, as I did, in the fact that you are his choice and you can deal with this in exactly the way that feels best to you.

    I personally have said to family in the past who were creating needless drama that they can either shape up or ship out, that I did not care either way. And they KNOW that I meant it because I have acted on it in the past. My stepmother, and by extension my dad, has no part in my life whatsoever because she broke that bond of trust beyond all repair, and my decision on the matter is final.

    So, just wanted to sympathise.

  96.  #96Indigo on March 26, 2016 at 3:50 am


    I just wanted to write about a new man that I have met. And I think I just need a safe place to write and riff about all my feelings, because I don’t feel remotely ready to open up to my friends and family about it yet. So I just want to write, stream of consciousness style, to get it all out onto the page with no agenda and no expectations.

    We met 6 days ago. And we have seen each other on 4 of those. Actually today will make it 7 days, and 5 days that we have seen each other. He has invited me to his house for a barbecue with his landlady and a couple of friends. Last night he took me out to dinner and we came back and watched a movie, and I spent the night. I finally tore myself away this morning. Well I say it like that, it wasn’t actually that hard. After a bit of time with someone else, I generally like to retreat to my cave for some time on my own. But, the time together with him is extremely gentle. I don’t really know a better way to describe it. I feel totally and utterly safe with him – the only feeling of unsafety comes from my own vague fear that it will end at some point.

    He is an extremely gentle, sweet, softly spoken person. He comes across as as wide and open as the ocean, and I feel very open with him. He spent the first few days we spent together just gazing at me, thankfully he has stopped doing that because it made me blush terribly and I had no idea what to make of it. He’s gentle and affectionate, he’s always holding my hand or tickling me or gently stroking or holding me in that reassuring way. It’s all very, very blissful.

    I am thankful too that, as adoring as he is, he has not started future talking, beyond what we will do in the next couple of days, or maybe a place he wants to take me. I have come to see excessive and grand future talking by a guy in the very early stages of a relationship as a very bad sign. My theory, based on my experience, is that the ones who talk about being with you forever right in the beginning, will burn out and disappear just as fast. It also causes far too much expectation and anxiety on my part. I’d far rather they said nothing than say things they are not sure they mean, or cannot deliver on, yet.

    Anyway, so this guy is very sweet and affectionate and adoring and complimentary… he pays and won’t let me open my own door and tells me I’m beautiful… But I have noticed he will not make me any promises and will not say things he does not mean. He is an artistic, creative, deep soul and writes me lengthy text messages of poetry on a daily basis. He talks of coming to find me in my dreams. He’s very, very different from the tall, dark and ruggedly masculine men I usually go for. He has blonde hair and blue eyes and a sort of feminine, angelic presence. Like I said, very different from the testosterone infused packages I usually go for. He’s not weak or irresponsible though – he’s actually very successful and strong willed.

    Anyway, I’m glad I got this all out, I need to so that I can get on with varsity work. 🙂 I really want to fall in love with this man, but my natural reserve and caution is preventing me from doing so yet, thankfully. It reminds me that I don’t really know this man yet. We have not slept together yet, and I have told him that we will not yet, and he said he is happy to wait. In fact last night we got a bit hot and heavy and he was the one who said, not tonight. Which honestly felt good. It feels wonderful to feel so blissful, but also to have a frame and boundaries around it.

  97.  #97Indigo on March 26, 2016 at 3:54 am

    The honest truth of the matter is that the beginning stages of dating or a relationship is wonderful but awkward as hell for me… and I love it but at the same time can’t wait for it to be over. There is so much infatuation but also so much fear and uncertainty and potential for “messing up” because of nervousness.

    Or is it just me? 😉

  98.  #98Femininewoman on March 26, 2016 at 5:16 am

    Indigo I am so happy you realize this early
    7 days does not a relationship make. At what point does a person change from a stranger to partner? 7 days? Any man who wants a shot at a relationship would be careful to make things perfect. You get to see the real person after about 6 months.

  99.  #99Dixie on March 26, 2016 at 5:26 am

    No Indigo, it’s not just you 🙂 – the fear of “messing up” is real.

    It’s the same fear that has honestly kept me feeling trapped sometimes, not only when a relationship was going well at the beginning, but even when it’s in a great stage later on. (That’s when all the ugly fears of inadequacy and abandonment show up).

    I’ve been reading a lot of Gay Hendricks work lately, and it’s helping me deal with these feelings that show up time and time again.

    The feeling of safety and security…..if I remember, this is what you loved about BushBoy and your love after that, no? Perhaps this man seems different that the rest on the outside, but maybe it’s the feeling of safety and security that you are really looking for. I wonder if maybe that’s the underlying fear? That’s what I’m discovering about myself lately….

    (Geez, I know we are not supposed to give advice and I don’t think I did….. But know that I am speaking with great affection and gentlenes 🙂

  100.  #100Femininewoman on March 26, 2016 at 5:27 am

    “I want him to feel excited and happy talking to me and yearn for my presence in his life once again”

    He can only yearn when you are absent. Initially you were the one sending yearning energy towards his ether. Then you continued to reach out until he responded. Ask yourself what have I done to inspire him to feel yearning?

  101.  #101Kim on March 26, 2016 at 5:37 am

    Ha, Indigo, I might note that down: shape up or ship out 😉

  102.  #102Femininewoman on March 26, 2016 at 5:39 am

    Kim I don’t see unfriending on fb as disrespect. On the other hand after all you have said about her in the past I would think you’d be happy that she kinda disconnected. Also I don’t see her as being manipulative with him. What she is showing you is what has worked for her in relation to him for decades. She has let her drama queen out for play when necessary. Seems it caused him to move closer to her and her to have her way. Is there a lesson there that you could glean something from?

  103.  #103Dixie on March 26, 2016 at 5:52 am


    I need some experience to relate to here….hopefully so it can help me understand my own strange feelings now.

    A week ago, when D mentioned “forever” (it was after the pregnancy scare) my heart has felt like trembling.

    Like Indigo mentioned above, it’s triggered some feelings of fear, disappointment, insecurity, etc. You name it, I’ve felt it, LOL!

    I know he loves me. Here’s the thing. I want us to slow down now. He said Forever, and I don’t want to rush into that. I want to enjoy each second, and I want to build better communication so that Forever actually lasts forever this time. I don’t want to repeat the same mistakes as I did before. When things are good with D, they feel profoundly good and energizing and loving. And I want to try to work at maintaining those feelings, I want to stay in a state of appreciation without putting my insecurities on his shouders.

    Now that he’s said Forever, my heart is very open to imagining that. I just want to slow down, make sure this feels grounded and solid. I want Forever with him too. But I don’t want to rush.

    How do I say any of this?

  104.  #104Kim on March 26, 2016 at 7:12 am

    Well, FW, the defriending came when she heard we got engaged..maybe not disrespect and just childish jealousy? I am at a loss to explain it and do find it rude. Just like I find it rude not to congratulate us – everyone else did. She was just pissed. Lol. But I won’t let it rob me of my sleep…
    She can have her way all she wants but not on my wedding day….
    Maybe yes, she gets what she wants but he is now dreading her attendance as much as I am so not sure it brings anyone closer. To be honest, I do find it brings people closer to be kind and loving to each other…and happy for each other.
    After all, it is dishonest. Honest would be to say ‘I don’t like that my brother is getting married and I am staying away’.
    Anyhow, I have chosen to focus on the good things and we have agreed that if she only comes to ruin the day, or does anything rude during celebrations etc., I can tell her to leave.
    I am not being held ransom on my wedding day, by anyone, and that includes my own family.
    I had to navigate this with my guy with some ‘don’t wants’ because he will not speak up, and yes, he has been drama-ed into submission, many times. I don’t want to partake in this game. I do not want to force him to choose between her and me or anything else drama inducing. It took me many many years to break free of my own family game and I am not stepping into someone elses dysfunctional dance.
    At the same time, I am not being walked all over anymore and we have decided if she turns up to cause trouble or be difficult, I have full rein to make her leave.
    He said he understands…..
    Of course, it would have been better that – being so hateful about it – she wouldn’t turn up at all. But I am not going to be the ‘bad guy’ who uninvites her and all that. I am neutral and as long as everyone behaves it’s all good.

  105.  #105Kim on March 26, 2016 at 7:17 am

    Meaning I am not fueling the fire, which is why I came here to process and didn’t take my frustration out on him.
    I have to make sure I keep balance not fueling the fire while also not being walked over and disrespected…and that will be my challenge, because of course I am:
    That my future sister in law is jealous and unhappy about this.
    I had not expected the strong reaction, when we moved in together she was fine about it…but whatever.
    Can’t make everyone like you, it is what it is….my challenge is just to stay neutral and not partake in any cat fight…lol

  106.  #106Azure Blu on March 26, 2016 at 7:57 am

    Ahhh… lovely bride… so great to hear your Beautiful Siren song this morning!!!
    Even though I can feel the anxiety and confusion…
    Your warm, loving heart is open and working with MoM
    to keep the wedding YOUR and HIS day!!

    Ahhh… I am VERY fortunate (I can see now) to not have experienced this with a sister of either of my husbands… Remembering back they both were VERY close to their sisters and both sisters were loving and accepting of me!!! And boy, i was a pistol back then!!
    age has meloed me a bit… :-))

    I remember Rori had a post on this awhile back…
    She said to share with your man
    How much you love his loving kindness…
    and it feels good that he is making YOU a priority on Your special day!!
    or something like that!

    Also this post that Rori has written about Chaos
    Which MoM’s sister seems to be good at

    Rori says:
    “it could be opening your heart and body to a man who’s nothing like you ever imagined “your man” would be and look like.

    It could be experiencing anything where you have no idea how it’ll turn out.

    There is only the impulse from inside you, inspiring you from that inside place to move in a direction that may or may not lead somewhere. Inviting and compelling you to simply “veer” in a vague direction where the only clarity is the feeling of the baby step itself.

    Let yourself guide yourself.

    Trust will come. You’ll learn what you need to learn for the next baby step, and you’ll become braver every time you move from inside you instead of from anything your head tells you to do.”

    You’ve got this with your Brave, innocent, warm heart!!
    It is soooo exciting to hear about Your Wedding day
    from a Siren who is using the Rori tools!!
    Love and hugs to You and your husband to be
    darling Kim!!!

  107.  #107Azure Blu on March 26, 2016 at 7:59 am

    I wrote you a comment darling Kim
    and it went into moderation…
    I’m not sure why but my comments continue to be in moderation!! Maybe I’m saying too much!

  108.  #108Mandy on March 26, 2016 at 8:40 am

    Ah. Ladies!

    I’m dealing with a lot of….shit….can anyone help me understand something about how I feel in social situations? Or with people who are manipulative and have a certain agenda, either to put my candle out to make theirs burn brighter or to cramp my style/thwart my free spirit?

    People fighting me on a lot of subjects. I actually had a female friend try to bully me into letting her borrow an expensive pair of shoes before I even got to use them, now she’s mad at me because I told her I felt pressured by her. She said she wasn’t okay with that, and that I’m wrongly accusing her.

    Then, a different female friend of mine totally made me feel like crap at the club because she brought up some crap that had happened a year ago with she and my ex, and just bluntly told my friend sitting next to us ALL about it, and I got angry with her for it and she totally guilt tripped me into feeling bad for getting mad with her.

    Then, I have been ignoring a third female friend because all she does is belittle me, tell me I’m needy, etc.

    Also, my CD, TallNDark, wanted me to be open and honest about if I see others, so I was, I told him I have more male friends than female, and I hang out with them, and so he decided he’d basically get himself a friend with benefits aside from me, and I feel he told me this because he was angry about me CDing. Feels totally toxic, and like he’s butt-hurt because he doesn’t know if he’s the only one who tickles me fancy. Well, that’s okay, because he’s honestly not, lol. I DO happen to feel a hell of a lot better around Dancing Wolf. That’s just the truth. He makes me feel good and I like him a lot. Of course I cannot treat him like a favorite that’s against Siren protocol, lol, buuut….if I were to be honest, ya.

    I FEEL… like the whole world wants to screw me over sometimes…I guess I’m looking for some perspective and also some comfort here…

    I have told all these people I won’t be told what to do, and they think how dare I even assume they would do something wrong…
    It’s all so very toxic. I believe each one of those persons is toxic. Correct me if I’m wrong? Am I the one with the problem?

    It sure does seem like I’ve upset a lot of people by telling them I’m not okay with being pushed around….Why do people try to suck me dry of everything I have? Why am I subjected to this type of high-school like bullying?

    My mother says I need better friends. Where are they? 😛


  109.  #109Mandy on March 26, 2016 at 8:46 am

    PS – wow I so dislike….how we are pit against each other as women…:(

    I wish we could…all be like on Siren Island…

  110.  #110Dixie on March 26, 2016 at 9:05 am


    You mentioned:
    “I have to make sure I keep balance not fueling the fire while also not being walked over and disrespected…and that will be my challenge, because of course I am:

    Kim, I hear you. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but when you and MoM first moved in together, wasn’t there a strange vibe then as well, when she visited? If I remember correctly, you were feeling a bit left out and confused – I remember because it really resonated with me. I think she was making plans with him and you were feeling almost deliberately excluded….

    I get the very clear feeling that she is jealous that you are the main woman in MoM’s life and it sounds like there might be a huge amount of insecurity and feelings of loss fueling her bad behaviour. Her lashing out is definitely out of bounds and I don’t doubt for a second that she will try to be the centre of attention!

    I wonder if you could just tell MoM that you can understand where she *might* be coming from, that this is how it makes you feel, and see what solutions he can come up with. (ie can someone else drive her around? Can you hire a can to take her back to the airport? Can she sit with people who are neutral? Can she have another role in the day aside from being the best man? Maybe she and someone else from his side can do s toast together?)

    Her sour feelings around this happy event should not have to dampen your enthusiasm at all!

    How does he feel about all this?

  111.  #111Dixie on March 26, 2016 at 9:08 am

    (When I got married years ago, I remember that his aunts and uncles had had a falling out with another aunt and uncle, and I was quietly taken aside and sort of “told” to not put that couple anywhere near the rest of the family! DRAMA!)

  112.  #112Millie on March 26, 2016 at 9:18 am

    93 FW yes you are right, but I have leaning back the past couple months. He will feel my absence even more now. I don’t want this anymore.

  113.  #113Kim on March 26, 2016 at 9:25 am

    Ah Dixie, great comment!
    I so agree with all you say..and yes, this happened before we moved in, plans with me were cancelled – and I was left home alone lol. We talked about it later and sorted it out but it was probably due to similar nonsense. It won’t happen again. Certainly not after all this – I will go on vacation and suck on cocktails rather than get involved in that again lol.
    Well, I have decided to not give it more attention right now…but I know when the time comes, some stuff will need to be discussed and I like your suggestions.
    He has indicated that he also just wants a relaxed day but is trying to please everyone – well this won’t necessarily work.
    I don’t know what role she could have, when she is so very unhappy about it, anything she says would just be fake? I am not getting married to please anyone or pretend…as far as I am concerned by throwing a tantrum and expressing unhappiness about our marriage, anyone automatically forfeits a role in the ceremony. Especially a vocal one. We have a lot of joyous and happy family and friends to choose from.
    Having said that, she’ll probably be signing as a witness…
    It’s a great feeling getting married at my age, 40, when I don’t worry what people think so much anymore. Plus we are different nationalities also, so we are doing it all very unconventionally – no bridesmaids and all that stuff…it’s really freeing. I am really looking forward to it all…

  114.  #114Indigo on March 26, 2016 at 11:43 pm

    Feminine Woman & Dixie,

    Thank you for your comments. I feel as if you are both good friends.

    Feminine Woman – that is something my mom said, that you only really know someone after 6 months and more down the line… it was a conclusion I came to independently myself. There is so much you think you know right at the beginning, but if it’s not worth doing slowly it’s not worth doing at all.

    Dixie – the fear is of his power to hurt me, I am terrified of that. This is something he can do nothing about, beyond reassuring me and making me feel safe over time. Yes I crave safety and security but the traditionally ruggedly masculine men I have dated have never managed to achieve that over a long period of time. People who are too guarded, have too much ego, will make snap judgments and leave too quickly… these people do not make me feel safe and are people I cannot have in my inner circle.

  115.  #115Indigo on March 26, 2016 at 11:46 pm

    I should say he already has the power to hurt me, and I have already found myself feeling the cold stab of jealousy when I realise he has loved other people before.

  116.  #116Indigo on March 27, 2016 at 3:54 am

    Dixie 96,

    Here is what I think.

    I think when a man is receptive to what you are going to say on this subject, how you say it is not so important. He will feel the intention and the meaning behind your words, and if he is on the same page as you, the two of you will just resonate at the same frequency.

    I so absolutely and 100% agree with you on the taking it slow thing. More than I can even put into words. The slower the better to be honest. The faster you move, in my experience, the more opportunities for broken promises, feeling overwhelmed, doing and saying too much too soon, awkwardness and fear, and the faster you burn out.

    I said this to J (the new guy) last night: “If something is worth doing, then it’s worth doing it slowly.” He thought this was wonderful. But then again he is so open and easy to talk to. So again, I think D’s state of mind and how he feels on the matter plays a big role here.

    Personally my favourite and most effective thing to do to “slow things down” is not to say much of anything at all, but just to let your actions do the talking. Take longer to reply to texts, space out your time together of your OWN accord, and don’t give too much away. Keep as many cards in your hand for as long as you can.

  117.  #117Starla on March 27, 2016 at 6:53 am

    Even though the sister seems so unhappy about the wedding, and she very well may be and that is her business, the fact that she wants to be in the wedding is huge. It means she’s supporting her brother and she’s supporting this union, even though she had her little fit. That speaks way more than her not saying congrats or anything else she’s done. This is just my opinion, but you might be in the territory of punishing her with not being in and speaking at the wedding for not showing support the way YOU expected initially. I’m not saying she acted right… It really sounds like she didn’t. But it sounds like she is trying to be a good sister and support her brother and his marriage the best way she can, and that she is important to MoM. Her being important to your fiance is the most important detail here. Again, just my opinion, but the saying “is this the hill you want to die on” comes to mind.

    You and I are very different ladies when it comes to men, so I understand totally if you disregard this advice. But since you requested advice, here is mine:-). Apologize to your fiance for being so focused on it bothering you and not wanting her to be part of the grooms party and to give a speech. Tell him that you know she is important to him and you RESPECT that. Remind him you would still like to figure out a way for her to get driven around without cutting into your honeymoon period. And then hope for the best.

    Good luck!!

  118.  #118MissStix on March 27, 2016 at 7:11 am


    I feel curious…Has sister in law to be ever been married?
    Maybe it’s less to do with you taking away the brother and more to do with the brother getting married at all before she has.
    Maybe i’m way off and maybe the *why* of the behaviour doesn’t matter at all…
    Yet maybe it will feel less stressful for you if it becomes obviously her stuff alone rather than her stuff towards you personally.

  119.  #119MissStix on March 27, 2016 at 7:25 am

    To me, now, a wedding is a sacred undertaking. While it does include undertaking extended family the ceremony itself is *2* people making an oath, a solemn vow to become married. I say “become” because it isn’t just a title or a legal contract or even just a promise of love till death. It will become a part of who you are.
    Lasting or not lasting it is an undertaking that will be a part of your very definition for the rest of your life.
    It is one of the most important days in your life.
    And what you will remember most about that day will be how you felt. What the day did to you inside.

    Even though my marriage didn’t work out I remember how anxious I felt. How hard it was to speak intimately in front of all those people.
    And also that it was some of the best fun i’ve ever had.

    So…On your wedding day your focus is to feel. How you feel will depend on how you engage with the day and the people there thathelp build the day.
    Aside from that all i’ll say is give yourself permission to SMILE because you are experiencing that day and excuse yourself and WALK AWAY from whatever or whoever is attempting to engage to engage you in any kind of horrible feelings.

  120.  #120Indigo on March 27, 2016 at 7:32 am

    Mandy 99,

    From what I’ve observed of you here, and what you’ve said in your post, my opinion is that you are a sensitive person, and like almost all sensitive people have a tendency to take things personally which are not personal at all. Of course it FEELS personal, and I understand this because it’s something I also battle with – it FEELS like people are responding to you and singling you out for this kind of treatment. You know almost as if they have a homing device for your buttons and are just itching to push them. When this is just not the case at all.

    The things people do and say, the things you’ve mentioned here, are either a reflection of who *they* are and what’s going on with them, or it’s a function of how something in you has brought out a particular reaction in them, but either way it’s not about *you* per se. It’s all actually a lot more objective and clinical than that, and I don’t think it helps or serves you at all to think that people around you have it in for you in some way. That keeps you in a disempowered place, and the way through this is to find a way to relate with these people which is empowered.

    It’s not helpful to think of everyone around you as trying to bully you or bleed you dry, because on a certain level, uncomfortable as it might be to admit, they are doing it with your consent. You need only find your strong, assertive, yet kind and warm voice which speaks up about what works for you, and follows that up with action, to understand this. And to see how differently people respond to you and how different people show up in your life as friends and lovers when you start to live from a place which is in alignment with what you say you want.

  121.  #121Indigo on March 27, 2016 at 8:15 am

    MissStix 110,

    On my wedding day I remember feeling stressed and nervous. The day had very little meaning for me. I wanted a tiny intimate wedding with only close family in a laid back setting like the beach or the park, or somewhere familiar, this was the setting I knew I would be at my best in, and would be able to derive the most emotional fulfillment from the day. And I felt pushed into having the big number with lots of people most of whom I don’t speak to on a regular basis. In a word, I resented it. And of course I got subjected to family drama too, which every wedding seems to come with, and I resented that too.

    If I do it again I am having the kind of wedding that feels good and right to me and bugger what everyone else wants. You’re right it is a day which should be filled with personal meaning for you and I don’t feel anyone has the right to rob you of that. It should be a day you look back on and mark your commitment.

  122.  #122Kim on March 27, 2016 at 9:42 am

    Thanks ladies – I really appreciate your comments!
    Starla, he actually agreed with me so I don’t need to draw more attention to it by apologizing and back tracking, because like indigo says, the wedding has to feel good to us. Not just him. Or just me.
    She has basically said she will only come if he wants her to. At which point he said he wasn’t sure (to me) but said to her that he does lol. The thing is this: she wants to be there.
    She would just like to be dramatic and center of attention and wanted him to beg her.
    Having dealt with a mother who lived her whole life out like this and everything being about her, I will not encourage this.
    Like I said, it would feel awful to have someone make a speech on MY wedding who isn’t speaking to me. Laughable in fact. She has expressed no wish for being an active part of it anyway.
    And no Stix, she is not married and never had a long term relationship at 43. There are reasons for this, she is a little i e strong willed and eccentric (diet, lifestyle) as well as not caring about her appearance. Not that this is necessarily a reason not to find a man but: As we all know, it is tough to find the right guy in any case. So I assume the fact that I take her brother, and the fact that she likely won’t ever get married, are both playing into this.
    None of this should be my problem, I have worked hard also to have a relationship – I have my own issues – and to get here and nobody is perfect.
    I do not envy other people’s happiness…
    I do agree with Stix and Indigo in seeing a marriage as a sacred thing in many ways – one that I don’t want to have sealed by discord. I also think a bride and groom are free to do whatever they like. Personally, if I had known everything I know now and how she behaved and all the drama about not speaking to us and defriending and whatever else, I would not have sent her an invitation in the first place.
    That may sound harsh but who wants haters at the happiest day of their lives? Not me.

  123.  #123Kim on March 27, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Let me just throw that out there. She knows she will stay alone and wanted to spend her old age living with her brother…he has mentioned something like it before, possibly ‘having to’, way early on when we met…and she has been writing Christmas Cards only addressed to him even though we have been together and now llive together and jointly write one for her. This year, her card which quickly disappeared…in it she wrote stuff like ‘you are the most important person in my life, I will never love anyone as much as I love you’ etc. my guy was embarrassed and it wasn’t around for long.
    so in a way maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. I don’t think she thought he would ever get married. I believe she is in shock. Hence the whole date thing, she didn’t want us to get married so soon etc maybe hoping we would call it off?
    She is very angry about it – it borders on the absurd.

  124.  #124Kim on March 27, 2016 at 9:55 am

    I am sincerely hoping that one day we can all have a loving family situation and I really mean that. I might be deluded…but maybe once the dust settles…
    I really want us to get along. At least be civil and polite and positive, if not best friends. Argh

  125.  #125Starla on March 27, 2016 at 10:35 am

    Kim, is it possible he is telling you one thing and her another? Could he be placating you? When is the wedding btw?

  126.  #126Starla on March 27, 2016 at 10:39 am

    You’re not deluded at all and i do think you can all get along. The optimistic thing here is she isn’t actually your mother. I am on guard too, because my mother has borderline and probably has some sociopath mixed in and i cut her out of my life. I won’t tolerate that crxp anymore.

  127.  #127Kim on March 27, 2016 at 10:52 am

    18th June Starla. Well, he better be placating me lol. Just kidding. I am sure he hasn’t told me all the stuff she said and I am sure knowing it would all have wound me up much more…although I know he does abhor drama and when he said it would be better she didn’t come if she had that attitude, he meant it. Of course he didn’t say that to her because he doesn’t want to hurt her. And of course he wants her there also – but not for any price. He is trying to keep the peace and I understand that.
    Unfortunately I also know that keeping the peace doesn’t always work in the long run. If people don’t respect you and boundaries.
    And I have plenty of experience of it.
    He has a history of it with the ex too, and he told me in the end he felt beingtaken advantage of, well this is what happens when one does not have boundaries- unfortunately it is up to him how he wants to behave. It is up to me to either just lean back or have some don’t wants on the table.
    I do not want to give in to the drama or keep focusing I it – it’s hard. Believe me. Lol

  128.  #128Starla on March 27, 2016 at 11:05 am

    Ooh a June wedding:-)

    When your man has two women in his life, the most important women in his life that he loves deeply at that, which do you want to be? The one he has to placate and tell white lies to in order to prevent her dissatisfaction and the pain that comes with that, or the one he feels respected by and safe enough with to be honest about his desires and not fear her reaction?

    I say leave the former for the sister and be the latter. That is how you ‘win’ in these situations and not just against her and securing his priority and favor over her, but in your relationship dynamic overall.

  129.  #129MissStix on March 27, 2016 at 3:07 pm


    Me too…My wedding was paid for largely by my parents so I went along with the big wedding thing. I didn’t wear my favourite dress, I wore the one everyone else liked best. At least I picked the locations and other details like colours and food etc.
    But what I really wanted was just like what you said. Small…Tiny even. My ideal ceremony has no one but me, him and the official. A small party following with no speeches or anything like that. Maybe a toast…
    Simple, fun, beautiful and romantic.

  130.  #130Tereana on March 27, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    Azure Blu #37 – Yay!

    And the quote in #38 – also a good one.

    Thank you. And I love hearing about your practice and your progress with Spirit….

  131.  #131Tereana on March 27, 2016 at 8:08 pm

    I feel like I have messed something up BADLY, and why do I keep doing this???

    BTW, there is a new post up, and it is WONDERFUL. I highly recommend. In fact, I needed it just now. Because I got so in my head. This thing with my friend from before….it was going so wonderfully. He wasn’t someone that I was attracted to, initially. But slowly, over time, I let him come toward me more, to where I could trust him – fully. To where I even decided to sleep with him. And maybe too soon. But like I said, chaos. And now more chaos. I think we are having trouble with boundaries. I said something that I realize now I should not have said. I was having FUN – SO much fun. You can’t even imagine how much fun I was having. And then – CRASH.

    suddenly he is running off in the other direction. He’s shutting down. Saying he doesn’t want to talk to me. In short, he is FREAKING OUT. And I know why. Because I am here, and he is there. And it’s far away. And he doesn’t see a way to close the gap. But he also hasn’t talked to me about it. If we were going to make any decisions, we would have to make them together.

    And I guess both of us are not used to that. Both of us are not used to being cared for or caring for the other. Both of us are so used to being alone, that maybe it is just so jarring to have another person there, we might just want to crawl back into our snail shell and be alone.

    Maybe that’s what he has to do for a bit.

    Maybe I’ve said what I needed to say. Maybe I get to just sit here and hum, while he feels the vibration, and slowly comes out to trust me (again).

    Or like the cat I saw today at a family friend’s house. At first, she was skittish. She was slinking away and hiding. So I didn’t chase her. I did my thing, and slowly, she came out to see me. She sniffed my hand. Then soon, she was rubbing up against me, and sitting at door, watching as I left.

    So he is like that. A skittish, scared animal. He is afraid to get hurt. As I am afraid. I looked into my heart, and I saw it there – the fear. I felt it, full force. The knee-jerk reaction, and the feeling of “being hurt.” It was a fear of being hurt that made me read his comment as hurtful when it was not.

    And he likewise.

    So now, thanks to technology, we are embroiled in a misunderstanding. One that I know would not have happened, were we to be talking in person right now, where I could communicate through touch and body language and not just letters on a screen. And even if it did happen, we could resolve it quicker. And we have in the past. Let him remember that. Let him remember who I am. He has liked me for too long. I don’t want to see him throw all of that away. It’s too important. I am too important (I don’t mean that in an egotistical way – I mean that I sense that I am important to him). And I do care.

    He’s not perfect. It’s not perfect. But I understand him as loving me. And my “picker” may be “off.” But he is not my “type.” He’s not the kind of guy I normally go for. I feel like I want to “pick” him because he’s different. He’s not like all the rest (ok, in some ways, he is). But his relationship to me is different. He has been the one guiding it this way all this time.

    There is a story I have been “playing out” for a long time in my relationships – a broken-record narrative, where the guy messes up really badly (or sometimes I mess up), and then he loses out and he doesn’t get to be with me. I actually don’t want that to happen here. I don’t want him to “mess up.” I don’t want him to feel bad and run away over one stupid comment. I want us to be able to work through this. I actually want him to win. I want him to be with me. Especially if that is truly what is in his heart. Because I know he can love me in the powerful way I need to be loved. And I need that.

    It is a mutual thing. It is the same need. I hope he sees that.

  132.  #132Mandy on March 27, 2016 at 8:36 pm


    OMG you hit the nail right on the head…I don’t mean to sound dramatic…but it hurts to be me sometimes!!!!!!

    I KNOW for a fact anxiety begets anxiety…snowball effect…and defensiveness is not necessarily something that will help connect with people!!!!

    And then I can see how thinking a certain way is power of suggestion, and then….

    If you believe something it is most certainly true to you…

    When it may actually not be true…

    Well, I at least….found my voice and said hey that’s not cool…to the folks who wanted to be rude…

    I’m just trying to figure out if I am begetting this, and it seems i am, but not because I am faulty, just because I am being sensitive.

    I just want to know I am not begetting this because I am somehow faulty or unable/disabled. That’s a HORRIBLE feeling.

    If it is just my anxiety working against me…

    Well I know the only way anyone has any power over me, is if I give it to them…even Ghandi said something on this matter.

    Imagining if I ignored someone instead of reacting…power taken away from them.

    It’s like dealing with my Twin Brother’s teasing growing up…simply…don’t engage.

    It is SO hard for me to remember because I have these REACTIONS. Instantaneous.

    It is hard-core masculine energy I believe and ignoring would be least I think so. It feels like leaning back anyway……….

  133.  #133Kim on March 28, 2016 at 6:25 am

    119 Starla, good point.
    It’s a fine line because I want to be honest with him and not ‘pretend’ that things are fine when they are not. Generally speaking.
    At the same time I do NOT want to do what the other women in his life have done – beat him into submission to get MY needs and wants fulfilled at any price.
    I am just going to assume what he has told me – which is that it is just as important to him as it is to me that the day goes smoothly and happily – and that he will take steps to make sure things happen the way we want them to.
    We don’t have to agree on everything, but he has indicated that he understands me and loves me and agrees on the most important point.
    He just wants to make me happy, and I trust that on our wedding day it may be more important to make me happy than cave into any demands and drama that will arise from his sister.
    I am just going to trust in that. If it happens to play out differently, we have agreed that it is in my power to resolve the situation by pointing at the door.
    I must say Starla, with increasing age I have found it much more easy to have my own needs communicated (especially so when they are not unreasonable). Something that if I had gotten married 20 years ago I would not have been able to do.
    I would have been steam-rollered into all kinds of stuff. I can tell you, so many people wanted to dissuade me from a whole host of things I wanted to do – and we wanted to do – that 20 years ago my wedding would have looked nothing like this.
    Now, I am looking forward to a relaxed ceremony outside, no fuss and no crazy planning, and a reception at a beach bar/grill afterwards lol. No, it isn’t everybody’s idea of happiness but it is ours.
    Finally, the one good thing about ageing is that I care less and less about what other people think and what is supposedly convention.
    Everybody will have food and drinks, can wear what they want…so let’s just be happy.
    At the same time if anyone comes with sour grapes or tries to ruin the relaxation we are envisaging, well they don’t have to attend.
    I am not forcing anyone… 🙂

  134.  #134Rori Raye on March 28, 2016 at 9:47 am

    Victoria, a “friend” is just that: a friend. Please Circular Date in your town and forget about long-distance ANYTHING!!! Love, Rori

  135.  #135Indigo on March 28, 2016 at 10:39 am


    My two cents is that when a guy is just your friend, you have to be careful to hold back a bit. Sure it’s fine for your guy friend to like you and for you to return the feelings, but you have to be careful not to assume it’s something that it’s not. For me, pet names here fall into the category of “too much too soon”.

  136.  #136Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:20 am

Ahhh… lovely bride… so great to hear your Beautiful Siren song this morning!!!
Even though I can feel the anxiety and confusion…
Your warm, loving heart is open and working with MoM
to keep the wedding YOUR and HIS day!!
    Ahhh… I am VERY fortunate (I can see now) to not have experienced this with a sister of either of my husbands… Remembering back they both were VERY close to their sisters and both sisters were loving and accepting of me!!! And boy, i was a pistol back then!!
age has meloed me a bit… :-))
    I remember Rori had a post on this awhile back…
She said to share with your man
How much you love his loving kindness…
and it feels good that he is making YOU a priority on Your special day!!
or something like that!
    Also this post that Rori has written about Chaos
Which MoM’s sister seems to be good at
    Rori says:
“it could be opening your heart and body to a man who’s nothing like you ever imagined “your man” would be and look like.
    It could be experiencing anything where you have no idea how it’ll turn out.
    There is only the impulse from inside you, inspiring you from that inside place to move in a direction that may or may not lead somewhere. Inviting and compelling you to simply “veer” in a vague direction where the only clarity is the feeling of the baby step itself.
    Let yourself guide yourself.
    Trust will come. You’ll learn what you need to learn for the next baby step, and you’ll become braver every time you move from inside you instead of from anything your head tells you to do.”
    You’ve got this with your Brave, innocent, warm heart!!
It is soooo exciting to hear about Your Wedding day
from a Siren who is using the Rori tools!!
Love and hugs to You and your husband to be
darling Kim!!

  137.  #137Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:21 am

    For some reason ALL my posts from the last week have gone into moderation and never posted…
    I happened to have saved the one for Kim…

    Wrote an email to Melanie… who helps in this area…
    they seem to be posting now!!
    Yay!! :-))

  138.  #138Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:33 am

    Ooopps;;;; Welll.. I do see where some of my comments were posted…
    feeling confused…
    Enjoying all the comments on here!

  139.  #139Victoria on March 28, 2016 at 11:41 am

    Rori, indigo,
    I have no idea what you are talking about???

  140.  #140Kim on March 28, 2016 at 11:48 am

    Azure I wondered where you were!
    I LOOOOOVED your post to me and thank you SO much. I will copy and paste it into my files.
    Very wise and much appreciated!
    How are things with you and Spirit?

  141.  #141Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 12:11 pm

    Kim!!!! :-))

    I do so remember, last year, all the strange and unusual stories you shared here
    about what a VERY close relationship MoM and his sister had.
    You being left out of their outings, and MoM feeling conflicted
    about how to handle 2 women at the same time…
    He sounds VERY different now
    Dealing with her
    and standing up for YOU!!! YAY!!!

  142.  #142Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 12:13 pm

    Victoria #139
    I saw a post #3, who’s name is Victoria,
    and is talking about a friend who
    “2 weeks ago yesterday, my friend (who lives in another state) called me but didn’t leave a voice mail like he usually does…..”
    is that you?

  143.  #143Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    about Spirit…
    I actually went to church with him
    Good Friday night
    Easter sunday…
    the church he attends has a great preacher..
    so I enjoyed going!
    and told him How i enjoyed going and liked the preacher several times during the day!

    He did try and engage in more religious conversation… but I simply said..
    “Spirit, because of my mother being very religious all my life… I am extremely sensitive to hearing too much religious information.” Thankfully he heard me and stopped..
    That IS progress!!
    I didn’t get MAD and
    He didn’t keep pressing the issue!

    BUT I have noticed how more and more
    masculine I am with my interactions with Spirit…
    the closer we get emotionally…
    pushing this way… pulling that way…

    Take for instance…
    Spirit brings over LOTS of snacks, food and wine!!
    takes me out to eat!
    Of course he wants me to participate and enjoy
    all this abundance with him…
    and I am enjoying it!! Soooo Yummie

    Sooo I have gained 10 lbs and NONE of my cloths fit
    I am petite and 5′ 1″ tall… 115 lbs (now I’m 125lb) in the last month….
    He is 6′ 3″ tall and he CAN eat all this!
    at 64 it is not easy to loose this…
    and the only way I CAN manage it is to
    maintain some pretty strict boundaries around
    what I eat…
    SALAD – of course some proteins
    so it’s feeling to me like I am being VERY
    masculine around grocery shopping, and what I eat.

    How do other Sirens handle this issue?

  144.  #144Kim on March 28, 2016 at 12:59 pm

    Azure thank you and yes! My guy changed a lot all around, much mire masculine too. It does seem like he is standing up more for me but at the same time, when she pulls the pouting and drama card, he will cave and give in to it, which is kind of annoying me a bit because I can then feel myself get all bossy and dramatic and then he will accuse ME of being tje drama queen.
    I find that a little hurtful since it was ME who told him to call her asap to check the date with her
    It was me who said to invite his cousins whom she is close to, so she has someone from their side of the family to talk to.
    It was also me who asked him to reserve a room for her in the hotel we are staying at
    BEFORE she acted all hateful amd childish.
    I did not defriend anyone or anything like that, I just rattled down some don’t wants for ky wedding day lol.
    Whatever. I am not bringing it up anymlre with him now because I don’t want to be pushing the issue. I trust he will know best, or rather I force myself to trust he will stand up.


    Wow that’s great that you went to church with him! I am sure this meant a great deal to Spirit.

    I understamd about the weight gain…I try to eat healthy when we are not together, during the day – also limit my bad food days to one or two a week….but I know what you mean. Eating is social…it’s tough to step back and so on.
    I am also small and try to stay the same size, I mjst admit it is harder when living with a man!

  145.  #145Kim on March 28, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Just rereading my message perhaos my lesson is to do nothing. I was organizing and planning because he works long hours. I was trying to avoid getting his sister annoyed.
    She got annoyed anyway…my lesson is to just ket him handle all that with her and his family from now on lol.

  146.  #146Millie on March 28, 2016 at 4:06 pm

    Do you ladies ever find yourselves doing the exact opposite of what you know you should? i have been doing really well and this weekend just feels like it erased all I’ve been working for. I leaned forward a lot with M. It’s like I don’t want to know about this other woman but at the same time I do. And I get stuck in this cycle of jealousy that I didn’t feel before. I was FINE until he told me about her. And instead of following my first instinct which was to cut contact with him, I am feeling the desire to see him. To accept his invitation to visit. It feels delving straight into the wound, but I can’t resist. I have a feeling it isn’t going to happen anyway and probably for the best but I just feel so out of sorts again. I lost my footing. I stopped being a lighthouse and fell into the sea after him. I feel lost.

  147.  #147Indigo on March 28, 2016 at 5:03 pm


    About the food issue, it’s something I also battle with, because I seem to have more specific needs around what I eat and when I eat, and I find men are far more expansive in their approach to food.

    These lovely men of ours also love to spoil us and take us out to dinner, and it’s so sweet. So you don’t want to discourage that.

    I’ve found it’s definitely something that gets easier to navigate with time. The more comfortable you feel the more you don’t mind standing up and saying “no thanks” or organising your own food that you want to eat, and he gets used to you having different habits. So I’d say it’s not that men have a problem with us eating differently to them, I think it’s just our own comfort level in speaking up about it.

  148.  #148Victoria on March 29, 2016 at 12:48 am

    Azure, Indigo,
    The Victoria in #3 is not me, I am surprised that the site allows name duplication, but also it seems to be having some problems with the formatting lately.

  149.  #149Victoria on March 29, 2016 at 12:57 am

    On food, I also know for sure, that if I let go, the pounds pack on so quickly.
    I have never dated a man who is consciencious about food, they all have been eating whatever, for some it was not great harm, but for F. for example, it was a big problem because he had a high stress job, was seemingly out of shape and had high blood pressure. The most “feminine” I could be was just to bite my tongue never to mention anything to him about his bad food choices. He tried to tempt me several times, like when we were eating out, he would always order two desserts, and then when I would not eat mine, he would eat them both, which, as you can imagine was the worst thing for him to do. And, he used to call me “skinny”, which I am not, but compared to him I sort of was, and that felt soo good. Which brings me to the point, that you can allow yourself to put on weight only if your man is putting on even more than you, to keep the balance of power :-).

  150.  #150Victoria on March 29, 2016 at 1:04 am

    We all do this sometimes. You are absolutely normal. You get triggered and interested by jealosy. Please write “pick up artist” in your google and read a little bit to see the philosophy there. It will be very eye-opening to you about what is known about female behavior.
    I feel so tempted to get into advice mode. Probably because I relate so much to what you say. I was watching a dance show last night, and I could see that when couples dance, the only time the woman “leads” is when she is running and the man is chasing her. I need to remember this.

  151.  #151Indigo on March 29, 2016 at 6:58 am

    Victoria 148,

    I definitely knew it was not you, and normally they don’t allow two posters with the same name on here… But it seems like there have been some glitches with the comments recently and the look of the blog…

  152.  #152Indigo on March 29, 2016 at 7:50 am


    I hope you will forgive me some philosophising on the blog. I have some thoughts I want to write down.

    I have come to learn that love and relationships are a function of two things – firstly, that person’s rightness for you, and secondly, where you are on your growth path and what you need to learn or develop within yourself to be the best possible partner that you can be.

    When you look at it this way, there is no blame. There is simply whether or not a person is right for you, and what you still need to learn or do differently to be a better partner… or more accurately, someone who draws people in and makes them want to stay there.

    When I look at it this way, I see so many men, and even friends, who were once in my life and are no longer, and I was so devastated at the time when they left, but now I see how inevitable and right that was, and I am glad. I envision myself going ever upward, climbing an invisible escalator to heaven and to my best self and my best relationship. I am not sad about a single one of the people who have left my life, except for my brother who is dead. I do not mourn or regret a single one of the men with whom it did not work out, and that is the truth. There might be one, maybe two, whom I think of and wonder whether they will grow to be a better version of themselves, a more harmonious fit for me and whether our paths will cross again. But that is just a fleeting thought, and then I get back to the life I am living now.

    I am astounded by how sad I was at the time when these men left, and how glad I am now that they did, because my life has continued to get better and better. I see now that, lovely as they were, deep down they were not a match for me, and we both knew it, and the universe knew it. I think of men whom I bonded to and idolised and worshipped and found it such a tragedy when things did not work out, when I could not fix it. How I yearned for them at one point in my life, or at the very least wanted to be given another chance and was not given it. How it felt like such a devastation and such a failure at the time. And now I look back and laugh, because the man I am with now makes most of them look like old dishrags (that’s a terrible thing to say, isn’t it? you’re not supposed to say such things but it is true, at least to me 🙂 ).

    And I know it’s early days with this man, and I’ve got to remind myself to calm down and take it slow, but I think I would never have found him if I had still been hanging on with the previous guy, and the guy before that, and the one before that, and so on. All of whom I see now did not even come close to hitting the mark.

    I’m not saying the guy I’m with now is “it” or that he’s my future husband or anything like that, but when I’m with him I feel totally safe, I feel connected and understood and profoundly cared about. I feel as if I can say anything, ask anything, do anything, and I will be safe. He’s so gentle and sweet and protective. He spends ages just looking into the truth of my soul (I don’t think he’s human) and tells me of all the beautiful adventures he wants to share with me. It’s all talk now still at this stage, but I love to dream with him. My heart feels huge and expanded and warm when I’m with him or think of him. It’s a good starting point, I think.

  153.  #153Indigo on March 29, 2016 at 7:53 am

    Mostly I think I can see how this guy is a hundred times better for me than the guy I was with before. And that guy was a hundred times better for me than the guy before him, and so on. And that is an exciting thought, isn’t it?

  154.  #154Victoria on March 29, 2016 at 8:13 am

    I also have the feeling that each man I dated was better than the previous one. Maybe it will stop getting better, but so far, so good. This is partly the reason I do not belive very much in the theory that there is one man who is the right one. There are probably several right ones we can meet depending on our own growth path.

  155.  #155Azure Blu on March 29, 2016 at 9:33 am

    Ahhhh Gentle Sirens,
    Siren Island is Filled with your lovely melodies…
    and allll the bright shiny Promise
    that is Spring!!!
    I feel a warm glow, rainbows and hearts swelling
    with LOVE for OURSELVES!

  156.  #156Femininewoman on March 29, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    Millie it is quite normal. The key is the awareness that you have built up about yourself and your patterns of behavior. You can always put back your foot in the right place, baby step at a time.

  157.  #157BeLoved on March 29, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    Millie – I’m maybe in the middle of that right now. I feel an internal struggle and am babystepping my way through it. I’ve been talking to the local ‘getting a divorce’ guy, the one I told I wasn’t going to date or f*ck. When I’ve texted him, it hasn’t felt like leaning forward though, it has felt natural and light. And without me saying, hey, I changed my mind and I do want to keep seeing you and hear from you more often – his energy is coming eagerly toward me, he CALLS on the PHONE omg, he is planning dates for this week. As much as it pains me, this is the BEST and most consistent I’ve had coming toward me in years, so seriously, am I going to turn this down? It feels so easy and natural and fun with him, I feel like I can totally be myself and I believe it’s mutual. So.
    Yet, a mutual friend saw his name flash on my phone and he was like…Heyyy, that guy? You know him? Doesn’t he have a wife and a daughter?
    I shook my head yes. He asked me, are you his mistress, then? And I shook my head…nooooo. Because at that time, we hadn’t been planning a date. And I felt dark. I felt that tug of war inside of me, between, “I want this experience and these feelings I feel with this guy” and “I don’t want to be anybody’s mistress.”

  158.  #158BeLoved on March 29, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    I want to clarify – I don’t have any reason to doubt he is actually in the process of getting a divorce. We are FB friends, he’s available to talk anytime day or night so it doesn’t seem like he’s hiding anything. He has also stepped up the quality of the dates he’s planning. He’s been an incredibly supportive and valuable source of information and a mentor as far as our profession goes, as well.
    In the meantime, I’m still CDing, still working on stepping up my game, staying on my horse and keeping the focus on me.

  159.  #159Mary on April 8, 2016 at 10:16 am

    Dear Rori, and dear friends at,

    I got so excited today when I read that a scientific study has proved what is one of the fundaments of your theory since a long time, Rori, that I wish to share this article with you all:
    There you go!

    Many congratulations, also on this article and the one about “open the doors and let love in” (love them!) and many thanks too for how your ideas help me in dark days. Lots of love to all you sirens out there.

  160.  #160LaOriental on April 15, 2016 at 1:34 pm


    I am new to commenting here, though have coached with the lovely Dominique and have most of Rori’s programs. My mind is chaotic right now, so I will cut to the chase: I opened my heart, leaned back, smiled, showed appreciation, etc., to a man at a DD, two days ago. I had gone in to get some info on my iPad that I needed right away for my taxes. He made some comments about the Wi Fi not working properly. I got up to leave an hour later, turned to him, smiled again and said have a nice day or something like that. He immediately got up and followed me to the door and introduced himself. He was clearly hitting on me. We must have talked for about 15 mins and one of the things he said to me is that he was surprised at “a women who walks in to a place and smiles at a total stranger”, etc., he made it clear that he found me attractive and asked if I would meet him for coffee sometime. I said ok. I am in a relationship right now that is struggling, and we live together. My S O is out of state with his elderly parents(mother just had foot surgery) father cannot walk. I have made a lot of mistakes, mostly being inconsistent, letting go of my routine, etc. My guy will be gone for about 2+months. My most pressing concern right now is: How are we supposed to do this “circular dating” thing?? He actually texted me this morning and asked if it was ok to call me early this eve. I replied and told him sure. What do I do now, other than keep practicing the tools? What do I tell him? Please, ladies, chime in! I want to do the right thing! That’s all I will say for now. Thank you, all for being here.

  161.  #161Eva on April 25, 2016 at 5:53 pm

    After using the skills gained here, my two year on and off courtship with the guy I have been dating is in marriage talk. He indicated with one exception that I get Botox around my eyes because I am 10 years his senior. He indicated he would pay for it and wrote me a check immediately for it. I’m feeling divided on how I’m feeling about this. He also is critical of my friends who are older. I feel worried that he will continue to see difenciencies in me as I will continue to get more wrinkles. Need some advice on this?