How To Find Love, Re-Create Love, And Keep Love Forever – Tonight

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intimacy There are so many books out there that talk about what to “say” and what to “do” – to “play hard to get,” “have boundaries,” “don’t let him get away with stuff”…and the IDEA of STANDING UP TO A MAN is great –

– But if you “play” at anything – if you PRETEND to feel a way you DON’T actually FEEL – you’re being untruthful to yourself, and then your self-esteem drops down to the bottom and then everything goes downhill with it.

Telling a man how “wrong” he is – even if he’s done something thoughtless and hurtful – is USELESS.

***And that’s what we’ll be focusing on in tonight’s new, live and interactive Love Forever teleclass (tonight, Monday, February 10th, 5:30 PDT, 8:30 EST) – about how “resisting pain brings MORE pain, and how accepting and loving everything you feel brings more LOVE – along with answering your specific questions, addressing your personal situation, Scripting “What to say to him…” and helping you change the dynamics of your love life and relationships. To find out more about Love Forever, go here:

It’s useless to try to “correct” a man’s behavior because:

1. It makes him instantly feel defensive – and as he becomes defensive, he LOSES his ATTRACTION for you.

And when he loses his Attraction for you – he loses his MOTIVATION to work HARD to keep you and the relationship.

He doesn’t see or feel a way of WINNING with you.

He feels like he’s always hurting you or disappointing you – he can never do anything right.

2. Making him “wrong” makes him see YOU as NEEDY!

That’s right – he sees YOU as making him the center of your world.

If your man is good enough for YOU – you can turn your relationship around, and if he’s not, you don’t have to “give up” – you can just “lose interest in him” yourself!

I know it sounds too easy to be true – but this is how it works, and I know because I’ve tried to turn so many men who weren’t good enough for me into husbands and pushed away so many men who may have been good enough for me.

And I also know – because once I figured this out it was like I’d taken a magic pill – that you can both turn things around on a dime, and you can lose interest in a man you were once crazy about on a dime – all without any work or pain at all.

You Need To Know HOW To Talk To A Man – About ANYTHING! Here’s How To Learn:

If you’re enduring the back-and-forth of a “Rubberband Man,” or longing for love and feel like there’s no good man out there for you – I can help.

Every day with my clients I come up with new Tools to help you turn your love life into what you want it to be fast, and since we’ve experienced amazing, dramatic turn-arounds in my Love Forever program – I wanted to let you know about tonight’s Love Forever teleclass (it’s also a 20+ hour recorded program you’ll get instant access to, plus new, live teleclasses every few months where I can give you personal, targeted advice for your particular situation). Just go here to learn more about Love Forever:

Hope to see you tonight, Monday, February 10th at 5:30pm PST, 8:30pm EST!

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 6:47 am


  2.  #2Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 6:54 am

    “Telling a man how “wrong” he is – even if he’s done something thoughtless and hurtful – is USELESS.”

  3.  #3Iris on February 10, 2014 at 7:46 am

    ‘Tis…very useless. But telling a man how you feel about it…seems to work for me 🙂

  4.  #4Turquoise on February 10, 2014 at 7:58 am

    Hi Sirens, I posted this last night and didn’t realize there were two new articles. I’m really excited to announce that I have signed up to sell Gold Canyon candles. I LOVE candles.. make me feel relaxed and mellow, I use them to celebrate birthdays and special meals…. and the glow feels magical on a romantic evening. After my crazy week…. I decided to go ahead and sign up and this will help me make some extra money, get me out meeting new people, and it will be FUN! If you click on my name it should take you to my website if you’d like to check it out. Wish me luck!

    Feb 09 – 8:33 pm
    Also, things are going nicely with my new guy…. still need a name for him, but want to get to know him better before I choose it. He’s asked me out for Valentine’s night… we are probably going to the movies, and he’s kept in contact all weekend. We have some friends in common and I asked about him…. after what happened with sweetheart, I feel a little skittish, this helped. They said very nice things about him, so that makes me feel better. He seems very thoughtful. He also sends good morning beautiful/good afternoon sunshine messages, so Ive been feeling pretty smiley.

    Sweetheart has respected my wishes and not called. I feel relieved. No crying since Saturday afternoon. I think that’s done, at least for now.

    Mr. Conversation has texted daily…. think he’s checking in on me. I appreciate it.

    Another guy I had emailed with for awhile, lives a few hours away… was no plan to meet, but his wife left him for a woman, so I told him about what happened on Thursday. Tonight he called and it was so nice, to feel supported and know people were thinking about me, helps.

    My sister and another friend have also been very supportive. I know I’m blessed to have people in my life who care, and show up.

    I still feel like someone is standing on my chest, that pressure is still there… but no more crying and I feel pretty good. It’s getting easier. Thanks sirens! Love you!

  5.  #5Turquoise on February 10, 2014 at 7:59 am

    Ok, now click my name… Website added!y picture is on there too if you want to match a name and face. 🙂

  6.  #6Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Turquoise you are a beauty!!!! You also look like a 25 year old. Congrats on the new business.

  7.  #7Cris on February 10, 2014 at 8:19 am

    congratulations Turquoise! I love scented candles!

  8.  #8Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 8:33 am

    So, anyone want to offer me a script, please?

    I’m moving out next month, and my ex has decided that he wants to be able to veto the place I choose to live. That isn’t realistic, because I have to take what I can afford.

    Any thoughts on telling him that he has no effing business trying to tell me where I’m ALLOWED to live, without telling him that he has no effing business ALLOWING me anything anymore? lol

  9.  #9LoveAlways on February 10, 2014 at 8:52 am

    ohhhhhhhhh, looking forward to the teleclass tonight!

  10.  #10LoveAlways on February 10, 2014 at 8:55 am


    I have to run out real quick but wanted to share this saying with you:

    Let folks run their mouths, while you run your business.

    No discussion. Look for a place, don’t discuss it. Find a place, don’t discuss it. Put down your deposit, don’t discuss it. Unless he is helping you pack and move into your new place, don’t discuss it.

  11.  #11April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 8:57 am


    In order to enter a goddess mindset, I would CHOOSE TO BELIEVE that all men think I am a goddess.

    In this case, I would believe that he wants only the best of palaces to house my divine being. And I would keep that thought, and I would be very gentle and appreciative of his concerns. It is only right that he is interested in where your divine presence will reside.

    Choose to believe he wants the best for you.

    Let’s choose to believe ALL men want the best for us.

  12.  #12Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 9:00 am

    Shannon as far as I am concerned the only discussion you should be having with him is about child support.

    I totally agree with LoveAlways. Just use your blank stare blink blink if he brings it up.

  13.  #13Iris on February 10, 2014 at 9:26 am

    #4 @ Turquoise, good luck!

  14.  #14Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Turquoise you are so beautiful! I wish you every success! I feel excited for you 🙂

  15.  #15Lisa on February 10, 2014 at 9:53 am

    I’m proud of myself as I said my first NO to a man without any explanation. He was taken back…. and he ask again, I said No I’m not ready for that…

    He ask if we could go back to my place and I cook dinner for him. I said No…. I can’t do that..

    and I didn’t say much else… he didn’t have much to say to me for a bit and I just sat there in silence and he eventually started talking again.

    there was much more to it, but I won’t put all the details… So basically we started talking on the road back… and then he stopped to talk to me… and said, Do you like me, I said yes… and he said can you tell me why… I used my feeling messages, I feel heard, I feel safe, I feel turned on…… etc…

    WOW what an intensely intimate conversation and he looks deeply into my eyes…

    at some point, it’s kind of fuzzy now… he said Lisa if we do this, it’s going to be in a committed way and it’s going to be forever. 2nd date…he is saying this to me… he had told me he couldn’t stop thinking about me… the day before and realized what a rare and amazingly evolved soul I am… he said do you realize how rare it is for us to be together…

    back to the moment in the car….so at some point … he said I’m getting too emotional… and he had tears in his eyes.. he said I wasn’t ever going to call you again… and now here I am with you I can feel what you have to offer and I’m not sure I can handle it… it might be too much.. he said you have such a depth to you, and so much love that I can see in your eyes…

    anyways… long conversation…

    then he called his friend to look up on google a place where they were open on sunday night after 8p and that had gluten free dishes… WOW.. and that came from a man that wanted me to cook him dinner… 😉

    I’m feeling triggered today… he ask me to take a MBTI test… and that is bringing up my emotions around not being good enough…

    I’m also emotional that finally a man has noticed how hard I’ve worked on myself and he thanked me ….. he said now I’m the lucky man that gets to reap the benefits of all that you are because of all the work you’ve done… he said that was such a turn on…

    however he did elude to the fact he is dating someone else too… which dar%n it I wish I had men in my circle right now… pooo!

    I’m elated in some ways… and I also know from experience that , he also is talking from a place of the honeymoon stage and that things could easily change…

    Oh dear, I’m a mess today….


  16.  #16Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Lisa, I was just reading around on the blog, and I came across something that was discussing a way to say ‘no’ to something along those lines of proving yourself (although it was about being exclusive and such).

    Basically, it was, “That feels great, but when I think about [what it was that was the issue], it brings up feelings for me like [needing to prove myself/ feeling not good enough/ etc.]. I know you would never intentionally hurt me, and I wanted you to know how I felt about this.”

    Anyway, that sounds AMAZING, and I find I need to dig my pom-poms out yet again today!

    I am feeling so happy today, seeing so many sirens experiencing such goodness. It feels so great to see women I view as friends (to the degree possible over the internet) having such wonderful experiences.

    Thank you so much for sharing that with us! I feel breathless and happy for you!

  17.  #17Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Shannon I am feeling happy for you. In the short space of time that you have started posting I get the impression that you have moved yourself into a place of power. A place where you recognize that you have choices and are riding with the wind to your dream life. Brava to you.

  18.  #18Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Yayy the links to the books now work!!

  19.  #19April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 11:07 am

    Did anybody like my new Goddess Mindset tool?
    I feel all pleased and warm that I thought of it!
    And I feel a little shy sharing it.

  20.  #20Femininewoman on February 10, 2014 at 11:21 am

    Love it April Rose and I still wouldn’t give a man who wants to VETO my choices any discussions. I would just appreciate his concern. My Goddess says vote for myself.

  21.  #21Rori Raye on February 10, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Hi all – is the new Rori Raye Novels link working for you?

    Love, Rori

  22.  #22Indigo on February 10, 2014 at 11:48 am


    There is a “technique” that I use with people who try to insert themselves into my business to the point that they want in on my decisions…

    I find it totally feminine, and totally kind.

    I laugh at them. As in, oh you silly person, what a funny idea. Sometimes I actually say, while laughing good-naturedly “Oh it’s so funny that you think you can make this decision for me!”

    They get the message, and are pretty disarmed too.

  23.  #23Cris on February 10, 2014 at 11:52 am

    yes, both books have been downloaded, thanks so much!

  24.  #24Cupcake on February 10, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    Re: Millie’s ex paying for the bill (from an earlier thread)

    For me the defining factor is- Is it a one-time gallant offer? Or an on-going offer?

    A one-time offer to help out when cash is short- I’d say, “Sure, thanks!”

    But it sounds like he’s offering to take responsibility for the bill on an on-going basis. That’s what makes me wary. If she doesn’t want to get back with him, that’s re-entwining their lives and it feels messy to me.

  25.  #25Andrea on February 10, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    Ahh yeah… Cupcake.. that makes sense to me. That’s a totally different situation than one drink at a bar. : )

  26.  #26April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Nope, I can’t download your books, Rori 🙁

  27.  #27Turquoise on February 10, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Thanks Sirens! I’m excited! I really need something I can throw my boy energy at and focus on. I have one party booked and two possible others so far, and I heard about a vendor fair, that if there isn’t another candle person, I’m going to do in March….. and I haven’t even gotten my kit yet. I love the website. Customers can order directly from there, without hosting or attending a party and that will help me reach a broader customer base! If you would like to be on my mailing list, please email me through the website and I’ll add you. I still have a lot to learn, but I’m excited! 🙂

  28.  #28Lisa on February 10, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    @Shannon yes, I’m sure I could have done it more like what you wrote and yet, I’m so excited that I did period that, it doesn’t even matter to me that I didn’t do it perfectly…. and yet it didn’t seem to phase him too much… as after that, we had this amazing talk with incredible kisses and tears…

    Ok I’m having major stuff come up… major, I haven’t been able to eat all day.. I feel queezy in my stomach and near to crying… shaky literally shaking my hands….

    I don’t know what this is, what it means, why all I know is… something is bubbling up to the surface…..

    I’m loving on me today… and taking things slowly…( not really productive ) today…

    I don’t know it’s like I feel like I’m falling in love with myself… not him…I can’t explain it… it’s like the book God on a Harley….

    and when he said that he is so excited to have someone mirror back to him the amazing things he has worked so hard on… of course that means he is mirroring back to me those same amazing things… maybe that is it..

    Part of me is saying BUT! it’s that initial stage that men will say anything – the testosterone is at work…

    I feel mixed up…. now… I haven’t a clue what is happening to me.. right now…

    I feel all warm and fuzzy at the same time I feel shaky and queezy….. what could it be???

    Why do just about every man I date wants me to commit to them right away… to get me off the market? Humm I’m curious about that…


  29.  #29Lisa on February 10, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    @April Rose I’m behind on the posts… where is your Goddess mindset tool?


  30.  #30April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Aw, Lisa, thanks for asking.
    It’s comment number 11 on this thread 🙂

  31.  #31Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 2:50 pm

    “choose to believe ALL men want the best for us”

    Yes! I love this, April Rose 🙂

  32.  #32April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Thank you Kyla,

    It sure looks like it’s happening that way for you!
    I feel so thrilled reading your updates. The way you describe a man’s smouldering eye contact makes my tummy turn over in a giggly somersault…. 🙂

  33.  #33Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    Lisa I get that all the time too.. men wanting an instant relationship with me, I’m the one, they were sure about me after one date etc.. just jumping off here as its what happened with Bear. For me it used to be hugely flattering and now its a huge red flag! It has turned out badly in the past for me. It takes me longer to get to know someone and develop feelings for them. I want a man who respects my feelings and puts them first, wants to court me and get to know me and allow a relationship to grow organically. Not try to tie me down and remove the competition so that they can sit back and relax. In the past I’ve noticed that once they “have” me that early what might have been beautiful just falls apart and I notice “I’ve got a serial monogamist who likes the comfort of being in a relationship but runs when things get deeper. Wonder what I can learn from this.

  34.  #34April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    Rori, it worked! I can download the books now.
    Thank you.

  35.  #35Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Ooh April Rose thank you and that felt delicious to read. I want my words to be more poetic and visceral like that 🙂

  36.  #36Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Lisa, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking for a way to help yourself tell him you weren’t interested in doing the test. Personally, I think I would feel a little offended by it, too… honestly, especially so if he was that into me. What, it’s not enough that you’re into me, now you want me to pass some sort of test? Ugh, no thanks.

    April, I’m still brooding on your Goddess tool. I don’t honestly know that I’m in a space yet to believe that he wants the best for me. It doesn’t fit with his behavior, so it’s hard to reconcile imagining the best with what is actually happening. It feels kind of like telling myself I’m rich when the truth is that my account is nearly overdrafted, lol.

    I went to a interesting information session today. It was about assistance in going into the medical field. I don’t really want to go into that, but there isn’t anything else I want to go into either, besides being an author, which is clearly a bust for me.

    So I’m feeling defeated and sad, but also hopeful. At least there’s advancement potential in it, and it’s certainly not going away any time soon!


  37.  #37Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Also, someone said they were doing awesome and getting loads of compliments on their online dating profile. My email addy is shannon at shannonphoenix dot com, if she would please linkie me to it. I would love to see a successful one, as mine all seem to be horrible, dreadful flops. I promise I won’t copy it, I would just like to see one, get an idea of what works, especially a Rori-ism one!

    Thanks! 🙂

  38.  #38April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    Hey Shannon,

    Did you click on the link Rori sent recently, to her business coach? If so, did you download his book about how you can make a difference in the world AND make money? Being an author was listed in several of his top ten categories.

    I felt truly inspired by his words.

    I would love to buddy up with you and any other ladies on here who want to shine their true self and purpose, and make a great living doing so.

  39.  #39Liquid Light on February 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm


    You are a writer, right? Have you thought of technical writing? Technical writers are very in demand, the job pays really well and it’s easy to do contract work and make your own schedule. I’m an interface designer and have worked with a lot of technical writers over the years. They help write support documentation for applications and web sites, help systems, training materials etc. I’m currently working on an electronic medical record. This industry has been transformed by incentives that are part of Obamacare which mandate that medical practices uses certified electronic health records. What this means is that there is a huge demand for these systems (EHRs) and all of them have a need for technical writers for their documentation and help systems etc. Just something to keep in mind as this may or may not have been an area you have considered before.

  40.  #40Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    Sent you an email Shannon

  41.  #41Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    April Rose I felt so inspired too and I’m feeling excited to start the course tomorrow.

  42.  #42Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm

    I’m a romance novelist, lol.

    Not what they are talking about.

    And technical writing generally requires a knowledge of the subject matter and frequently a degree such as an English degree of some sort. 🙁 If not for that, I’d pretty much do anything in writing.

    I’d even do copy writing, but I can’t find a way at all to break into that. Apparently there is massive demand for it, but they all want certain credentials, so they kind of screw themselves out of getting good copy writers. It’s like demanding that all cashiers at your store only have business degrees and 20 years experience in running their own successful top 500 company, lol.

  43.  #43Lisa on February 10, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    @Shannon I’m sorry my post might have come off as crass it wasn’t… I just am so nervous today typing has been hard and I didn’t put my prefaces in …. I’m happy you wrote it and I’ll hopefully remember it… and it wasn’t meaning to be that way… I just wasn’t careful with my wordage….( I’m having a hard day today) I’m happy you posted it and I felt heard and felt your sincere heartfelt desire to help… so I apologize too… <3

    gosh it is so hard to type with my hands shaking so bad…

    I think what is going on is that my ego is hearing what it wants to hear from this man and it is confusing me…. and bringing up emotions …. like finally someone gets me, and finally someone really is interested in me, and finally someone can look me in the eye, finally someone is into my intelligence and isn't put off by it…

    @Kyla you are soooo right! It doesn't feel good to have a man "just get me off the market" men tend to want to eliminate competition….. and I attract men that do that way too early… for me.. now I loved being pursued don't get me wrong, but it makes me wonder if what they are saying is really the truth….

    I've had several men say they were falling in love with me so early that it is hard for me to trust them… this one said it on the second date that he might fall in love with me…

    Great if he really means it…. not so great if he is just one to "say it b/c he means it in the moment"… luckily I'm wiser than that….

    This is why I need to find some circle dater's fast…

    and do what FW suggest awhile back to pace myself.. more…. create some space…

    Gina Lake talks about not getting caught up in "what the ego wants to hear" when it hears it… then we mistake that for love…

    I'm feeling this deep need to nurture me right now…. I need some TLC….

    and he can fall in love with me all he wants… I'm taking my time…. and allowing it to happen…more to my own beat and rhythm…. or not…

    Do I want a metrosexual man????


  44.  #44Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    Thanks so much, Kyla!

  45.  #45April Rose on February 10, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    I feel a bit embarrassed and a bit silly. I don’t understand the word ‘veto’.

    Out of simple curiosity I would ask this man “What interests you about where I live or don’t live?” and give him a fair chance to answer.

  46.  #46Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Veto means to have the right to essentially say “no” to it. It’s almost always used politically, like the President can veto a bill… he can say “no” and make it not pass/ go through. It’s blocking it, stopping it, saying no to it. A sort of “final decision” on something.

    He wants to pick the neighborhood because of K, our daughter. Because apparently I’m a moron and am going to move us into the slums.

    Lisa, I think that sometimes our bodies can interpret happiness as “too much”. We get an adrenaline spike and then as we come down from that, it feels ‘bad’ in our bodies.

    And honestly? It does seem like your paradigm just got challenged. That can feel great, but it can also feel TERRIFYING.

    I think that sometimes it’s the other way around… our egos see us about to get something we truly desire and it FREAKS OUT… like OMG, if I get what I want, WHAT HORRIBLE THING COULD HAPPEN??

    It starts freaking out on all the possibilities… and it makes us feel ill and terrified because often our egos DO NOT want us to have what we want!

    WANTING is part of the ego’s self-chosen job. Once you HAVE, then WANTING is no longer necessary… and then what?? AND THEN WHAT?

    Lol. Our minds are strange things, they are!

  47.  #47Shannon on February 10, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    Liquid Light, I haven’t read it yet. I will soon. I would love to be partners with someone, although I think I’ll need money before I can get really moving on it.

    I love my “stupid stories” as other people in my life have called them, and I feel that I could really make money from them if I could just get them out there enough, if that makes sense.

  48.  #48Lisa on February 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    @Shannon your so right!!! and I know that… but having an off day and Thanks!!! for reminding me!!

    I love how you wrote this…: “Lisa, I think that sometimes our bodies can interpret happiness as “too much”. We get an adrenaline spike and then as we come down from that, it feels ‘bad’ in our bodies.

    And honestly? It does seem like your paradigm just got challenged. That can feel great, but it can also feel TERRIFYING.

    I think that sometimes it’s the other way around… our egos see us about to get something we truly desire and it FREAKS OUT… like OMG, if I get what I want, WHAT HORRIBLE THING COULD HAPPEN??

    It starts freaking out on all the possibilities… and it makes us feel ill and terrified because often our egos DO NOT want us to have what we want!

    WANTING is part of the ego’s self-chosen job. Once you HAVE, then WANTING is no longer necessary… and then what?? AND THEN WHAT?”

    and my mind is also saying what if isn’t real! What if he doesn’t mean it….

    and then part of me is saying, OMG it could actually happen, I could actually find a man that Gets me! Wants it! Turns him on! All of me! and see the little tiny voice inside that screams sometimes that “there isn’t anyone out there for me” your right on… my boat is getting rocked!! big time…

    I was a little offended by him asking me to take the test… and I’m going to have to say something about it… I know he is a therapist.. but it seems like he if focusing on how compatible we are clinically… and that’s not good to me…. it seems to out of the heart….


  49.  #49Kyla on February 10, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    I feel so d*mn triggered. DrWho just sent a text after 13 days of nothing, which included our half made plans to go out Saturday night(!!!!), saying “hey kyla! sorry I’ve been out of touch recently, work and life have been overwhelming for the last couple weeks and likely to continue to be for the next few weeks. How are you doing?”
    Ooooh I feel soooo mad. I feel like drop kicking his ass out the door, figuratively obviously as he’s not here so that saves me the ass kicking! I can’t respond because I feel infuriated that he thinks this is ok and I will be sitting here smiling and clapping my hands at the crumb he just tossed to keep me hooked for another few weeks. Grrrrrr!

    Meanwhile new guy from Saturday called last night and made our second date for Tuesday after work (even though its a 3 hour roundtrip for him) and has text to ask if I’m free for a call again tonight.

    Hmmm what a contrast!!!! I feel like beating myself up for how hung up on DrWho I was, I feel scrunchy faced and cross and mad as hell.

  50.  #50LoveAlways on February 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    “I felt you in my dreams last night.”

    Rori is awesome, she always keeps this new!!!


  51.  #51Radlove on February 10, 2014 at 7:44 pm


    Hi! Then he will ask, “What did you dream?” I wouldn’t say it unless it were true.

  52.  #52Millie on February 10, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    Cupcake you are right…committing to pay a bill is much different than paying for a drink…
    This man does not want to marry me….so I feel that any gift he gives is not trying to “buy” me.

  53.  #53Radlove on February 10, 2014 at 8:56 pm


    What was the reference for your comment that a woman’s energy flows from her breasts downward, to stimulate the breasts for arousal? I feel interested in that concept, and I had always thought about a woman’s energy flowing from her womb outward.

  54.  #54Mandy on February 10, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    Indigo, I feel very proud of you that you had the courage to break up with B. I have never actually broken up with anyone before. I feel very shy to admit that here. I feel incredibly shy to admit a lot!

    Question for sirens – So when we say something like “I feel ____ when ______”…

    I know we are to “tweak” the script to make it so we are not making him defensive or blaming…

    But, if we use any script too much saying we are constantly uncomfy, say, about how he is always saying how hot this or that woman is, does this cause him to lose attraction?

    I used to feel 110% confused on this one for awhile. Got great help, but I notice after about two months I slip into old routines, and for some reason I love the idea of telling a man I feel uncomfy if it happens, because I’ve spent my entire life feeling uncomfy and not saying anything.

    If it is not condusive to the relationship, instead of that, may I try saying something like, “Wow, she’s really hot, I feel kinda jealous”.

    I feel SO SCARED to admit jealousy – because I instantly put myself underneath someone else admitting it. Is this incorrect? I hope so…I don’t think I’ve really had the courage to use that word…jealous… with him – but when I did once, he obliged to show his protection for me in his masculine way. He probably knows it and knows I don’t want to admit jealousy, but I say more uncomfy, and I think if I say that, he feels he’s offended me very seriously and draws back.

    This is a very important blog post for me, and I feel I need to really get this one straight.

    OH…and I finally got into a therapist for the OCD and TS troubles. That should help things…

  55.  #55Millie on February 10, 2014 at 9:52 pm


    I’m wondering if maybe a way you can express jealousy and still be sireny is to say it in a way that inspires you rather than makes you feel less than. As a suggestion, maybe–“Oh she is so beautiful, her hair looks so soft and flowy, I feel inspired to spend more time on my hair.” Or “I feel inspired to work out more.. to spruce up my wardrobe…etc.” Instead of you feeling like the other girl is more attractive and you it ends there, use it to make yourself feel more attractive. What do you think?

  56.  #56Millie on February 10, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    I still think about Mechanic…..not because I want to be in a relationship with him, but because he got the better of me and I flip flopped on my boundaries. He hasn’t contacted me in weeks, just liking a FB photo post here and there….. I know I shouldn’t, but I wonder if we’ll talk again.

  57.  #57Mandy on February 10, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    Millie –

    Great job thinking/feeling outside the box…

    However, for some reason, my guy really feels WEIRD when I talk about wardrobe or hair or makeup to him…like he’s one of my girlfriends, he says.

    He’s worked in retail giving hair and wardrobe advice for probably twenty years and I know work really makes things unlikeable for him, and also, he might feel a bit un-masculine when I talk to him about my hair or clothing.

    This one really does feel it if he feels criticized. He actually mentioned the other day I made HIM feel weird by talking about an ex…so that was humbling.
    I notice he really does respond when I am genuinely feeling bad about feeling jealous though. I will sort of look down and say the word as though I’m sort of admitting a deep dark secret to him and I just caved into admitting it, and then, he feels the need to protect me I feel, because I’m not putting up any sort of fight about it, just letting it be, and sharing trust and truth with him about myself.

    Maybe I should swallow some pride here? I will admit I’m pretty darn nice looking, so maybe I’m just mad because I’m sitting here being gorgeous (giggle) and he notices and comments on so many other women, it just wears on me and he knows its a constant trigger for me. Maybe I should practice letting myself say the word to him, maybe see if I can choose a different reaction to saying the word, and see what happens. What do you think of that idea?

    I also feel even though I’ve lost forty lbs, updated my hair and started the gym, I still feel I’m missing something. Girlfriends maybe? I haven’t hung out with one for a long while. Also, the circular dating idea scares me because either Christian Carter or Evan Katz mentioned it doesn’t work if you’ve got a good, loyal boyfriend. But what the hell, he goes and talks to other women and says hi at the bar and he says he likes to hear that I’m attracted to other men because then he doesn’t feel so bad about looking at other women and liking how they look. (He’s a photographer by the way and I’m a model, so it goes both ways…I do enjoy it when someone tells me I look beautiful, and he likes to look at women…naturally…but he says, in a non-sexual, artistic way, most of the time, or he will say “Sooo cute!”)

    It’s a big thing for us, because we’re both artists and visual and sensitive. So I really need to get this worked on…either somehow choosing a different reaction or leaning WAY back!

    Thanks for that…:)

  58.  #58Rori Raye on February 10, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    I love this book – Tantric Orgasm For Women – Diana Richardson

  59.  #59akasha on February 11, 2014 at 12:48 am

    Shannon, I have something that may help you out because it really helps me out when dealing with S. I just think to myself, he is just a little 6 year old boy. Having a temper tantrum, or being insensitive, or being a child. And I can’t very well get upset with a 6 year old , can I? I can just laugh it off, and say ok ok sure thing and soothe them maybe and then just do what I want.

    And in this way, you never take what they say personally. He may just like controlling you, or like to make you feel like you can’t make your own decisions, that you are not VALID. Or he could genuinely care about where you live etc. You will never know the cause of this words but you can choose how you respond.

    Just brush them off, smile away, imagine him being 6 years old in front of you demanding you to live in a certain place.

    Kind of funny no?

  60.  #60Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 1:57 am

    “Wow, she’s really hot, I feel kinda jealous”. Love it. It also sounds Rockstar to me. The thing is the place where you are coming from inside. If you are being authentic then it will be good for you to say it. I have. And to me there is nothing wrong with appreciating another woman’s beauty.

  61.  #61Mandy on February 11, 2014 at 2:04 am

    Oh boy…okay…here I am again…

    So…I was searching the web, because a thought had crossed my mind, about J and his fear of intimacy. I genuinely have the feeling he is scared of sex in general, so…I put in the key search words in google…and it came back with a link to an article asking if you are the partner of a “sexual anorexic”. It’s basically the same thing as a food anorexic, except with intimacy and sex, often resulting in people who have been abused, where they obsess over NOT having sex, and avoiding situations, friendships, etc, because of the intense obsessive fear of sex happening or being expected, and replacing intimacy with porn or anonymous hookups or even alcohol/drugs/excessive athleticism/workaholic behavior. J has been sexually/physically abused for a long time when he was young, and uses alcohol to reduce his generalized anxiety. Anyone ever experienced someone like this? Anyone ever had it?

    I immediately felt something in my heart when I read the article and it almost drove me to tears.

    It said:

    “For the partner of Sexual Anorexics, this is an almost unbearable burden to carry. It is as if we are being made to “pay for the sins of the past,” a past that happened long before we knew him. An Al-Anon adage can be of great help and comfort here: We didn’t cause it, we can’t cure it, and we can’t control it.

    Characteristic of partners of anorexics is:
    • Depression;
    • Hopelessness;
    • Devastated self-esteem;
    • Despair;
    • Eating disorders as a result of trying to compete to “show up” on his radar;
    • Becoming sexually anorexic herself;
    • Rupturing her own relationship to her sexuality as a result of his repeated sexual rejection/abandonment; and
    • Risk having sexual relations with men she doesn’t care about as a way to reinstate her desirability.”

    I can say when I was allowing myself to circular date before J asked me to be his girlfriend, I did risk having sexual relations with two male friends (if that is a risk, meaning sex with a condom), I became preoccupied with my appearance as a result of trying to show up his radar (but my weight loss it isn’t b/c of an eating disorder, just healthier eating habits), I have felt hopeless and have reached a point of sexual anorexic behavior myself (However I am on antidepressants and don’t need sex every day or even every week.) I’ve been trying to avoid it when I think it won’t work to open up communication, because he feels SO INCREDIBLY anxious whenever I even bring up sex…and I’ve had the troubles which I described in above comment entries of being jealous when he notices another woman, because I feel unnoticed by him, like I’m not “showing up on his radar’, and the jealousy almost always happens when it’s been about three weeks after we last were intimate (three weeks to a month intervals between intimacies has been the regular pattern which is a marked improvement, because of Siren tools I’ve used to really “dig up the shit”.

    Rori has spoken about us having fear of intimacy, but I am not sure I know of her speaking of problems with men having it. If she has and I don’t know, I’d love to know what program or published piece she mentions it in.

    I know I’ve been successful recently in getting him to respond a bit more sexually, but I also read sexual anorexics feel incredible shame afterwards sometimes. I really really hope he doesn’t, but if he does I really, really hope he can heal. Only way I can know is to ask my therapist I suppose.

    Good thing I got an appointment on Thursday.

    I am not clearly remembering who said it but a Siren on this blog said it really sounds like I really do not want to leave J. She was *absolutely* right. I feel such genuine love for him, I just want to help him heal, because he is gentle with me, he supports me in everything I do, he protects me, we have a deep bond, he is incredibly genuine when he says he loves me, when we are intimate it is absolutely immaculate, and I feel it is still absolutely worth it to see this relationship grow, flourish and improve.

    Now I feel I might have actually grabbed onto the root of the problem. I’m sure as hell going to ask the doc about the possibility. I think coming here is helping with my insecurities. I can at least see what the other Sirens here feel like…have experienced…or what they have to say.

    I just REALLY feel like I’ve stumbled onto the real issue here…!!!

  62.  #62Mandy on February 11, 2014 at 2:19 am

    Thank you Femininewoman, I very much appreciate your input. I remember actually seeing a cute movie called Adam and Steve where it interestingly enough was portraying a male couple who were dancing in a country bar, and Adam points out his ex in the bar, and Steve says, very humbly, and you can tell the vulnerability in hi voice, “Wow…he’s pretty hot…’ And I thought it really sounded graceful, even coming from a man, the actor did a wonderful job setting an example! And then, Adam responds, “But he’s not my boyfriend…you are”. Sounds good to me! So that’s where I got the idea… 🙂

  63.  #63Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 3:00 am

    Mandy he has to want to heal himself, Without that you have no power over him. That motivation has to come from inside him otherwise you are likely to overfunction and end up feeling like you are banging your head against a brick wall and feeling resentful.

  64.  #64Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 3:01 am

    Mandy is he complementing you? How do you respond when he does?

  65.  #65emmie on February 11, 2014 at 3:42 am

    Hi Sirens and Rori,

    I really need some help please. I have been a follower of this website for years and even used to be on Siren Island before I took a break. A lot has happened for me and I am in a really stuck situation.

    I have/had a man. He was/is fantastic. I’m not even sure how to begin explaining and I am not going to go into the history, but focus on the now, for I am now stumped as to how to continue

    What do I do with a man that places a huge importance on spirituality and philosophical needs being met
    That would never be intimate and share himself with someone if he did not have feelings for them
    That thinks about things on an energetic and harmonious level
    That desires intellectual conversations
    That is incredibly sensitive

    That was my boyfriend and we were exclusive except he has now pulled back, saying he still has feelings for me, and they are growing, that when we are in the moment and he sees me truly and we interact harmoniously we are perfect, but we have built up a reactivity to each other from a range of circumstances that have made things incredibly convoluted

    that I have made my truth (I dont need labels, I dont want pressure and expectations, that I recognise my desire to share myself with him and in the moment can honour that) clear to him, I have said that we cannot go back to friends.

    That told me today…that he has a lot he needs to sort out for himself and that he cannot make a decision about us from a place of fear of losing me, but rather a place of love, even if that means he loses me. If he believes he has made his decision from a place of love it is honouring his truth.

    Now – I have a lot I need to sort out for myself too, I can keep my distance and focus on me and wait for him to come to me…but I feel that the tools are making things difficult. I am trying to show him with feeling messages we can repair this and honour our feelings, I try to be as honest and aware of my feelings in the moment as possible, I try not to bring up the “talks” he does this himself.

    Both of us are carrying a lot of baggage and a lot of created reactivity. I WANT and NEED to shift this, but how do I do this…I feel like the feeling messages just arn’t enough for this very masculine, but very sensitive and energetically aware man. That is very intuative and reads into every single moment.

    How on earth do I bring him back to me? I do not NEED him either and I am working on that even more so, but I want him. I recognise our deeper connection and want to honour my truth too…but every angle I come at (not from a place of strategy) but a place of trying to share myself purely, I am met with his higher level understanding of things….

    please Rori help, I feel the tools arn’t enough at the moment, or I am going about this the wrng way with him…he is not your ‘every day’ man….and no I haven’t placed him on a pedestal, I am aware of his weaknesses too…but I just cannot work how to express myself more purely and comfort his needs whilst honouring mine


  66.  #66Shannon on February 11, 2014 at 4:10 am

    Hi emmie. Circular date. Immediately. You’re broken up, and the only way that he’s going to energetically FEEL possibly losing you, is if he could possibly lose you.

    The issue is right now there’s no real way he could lose you at all. There’s no competition, and you’re so hung up on him that he could drag you through glass and you’d crawl back (trust me, I know–I still once in a while go back there with my ex even now). Since he has that, he has no need to even attempt to begin wooing you again.

    The things that will help most is if you get TRULY busy and if you circular date immediately and with gusto.

    He has walked away, so you two are no longer exclusive. And from now on, you use the “no girlfriend” speech on ANYONE (including him) who wants to fall right back into a relationship with you.


    Mandy, try this on your fellow when he looks at other women and finds them hot by saying so;

    “Wow. I feel totally turned off. My standards for my relationship are higher than that.” And then you say NOTHING ELSE. This sets boundaries and it also increases your attractiveness. It says NOTHING about him at all… but it speaks about your relationship and your feelings about a behavior.

    If there’s one thing that men measure themselves by, it’s sexual prowess. So you very simply state that a behavior that is THAT egregious, is a turn off. It does, quite frankly, hit him where it hurts.

    When you get upset about it or say you’re uncomfortable, you make him significant. He’ll keep trying to feel significant, even if negatively so… but if you say it’s a turn off, it clearly illuminates for him that he’s effecting his prowess in the area that most matters to men.

  67.  #67Shannon on February 11, 2014 at 4:15 am

    Oh, one more thing, emmie, you can’t convince him that things will change. You can only change.

    The first thing that you need to change is that you need to make yourself genuinely busy so that you stop pestering him. Telling him things can change is no leaning back and initiating any contact under these circumstances is not leaning back. In fact, it’s being all up in his grill.

    But you’ll be in his grill, energetically (and probably literally) until you get yourself insanely, madly busy.

    Take it from me, I know. I’m just starting the process of getting truly busy right now, and it’s making things SO much easier for me to see this objectively and how much I was “in his grill”.

    I’m only a few steps up the ladder from you, so I’ve got “immediate hindsight” into where you are.

    Circular dating and becoming insanely busy are your best steps right now. Focus off of him, focus onto you… All “trying” with him in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM is going to do is feel to him like you are IN HIS GRILL, trying to entertwine with him, trying to meld with him, trying to suffocate him.

    It is a hard, bitter pill to swallow, but anything about the relationship at all is going to push him away. All your trying is having the opposite effect you desire. I know, cause I was just there.


  68.  #68April Rose on February 11, 2014 at 4:30 am

    Resentment kills any openness that could occur between two people.

  69.  #69akasha on February 11, 2014 at 5:19 am

    Ditto what Shannon said, I was just there too 🙂

    Where is this “Siren Island” that I keep reading about?

  70.  #70Dominique on February 11, 2014 at 5:39 am

    Mandy – 54- “Wow, she’s really hot, I feel kinda jealous”.

    I think this is brilliant, and if you could bring yourself to actually say this, how incredibly REAL and AUTHENTIC which to a good man would be so attractive, endearing even. This does not put you under anyone or in a position of weakness. It shows tremendous courage and strength.

    Other possible word choices – insecure, scared, fearful, uneasy.


  71.  #71Dominique on February 11, 2014 at 5:45 am

    I want to add to this Mandy, that this isn’t something you want to say regularly, yet to get it out finally, for the first time maybe, to reveal yourself to your man in this way, to show him that yes, you do feel insecure sometimes is SO real, and realness/authenticity is what helps create safety in a relationship.


  72.  #72Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 5:47 am

    Love it Dominique. Mandy I am with Dominique on this.

    Men will look at other women just like we will look at other men. How our attractiveness triggers work is for the most part a mystery to us so I believe it is okay to allow people to be themselves and just share how you feel. Your jealousy is really your issue and if the man chooses to help you with it bravo to him. Believe that if you are truly secure in yourself and your relationship you will not be so troubled by this. As time goes on the man increases his actions in making you feel more and more secure this kind of thing will become like a blip on your radar. I do believe you will be able to recognize when it is just a passing admiration and when he is oogling another female. You will feel disrespected.

  73.  #73CurvySiren10 on February 11, 2014 at 5:57 am

    68 April Rose~ oh yes. This is absolutely the truth.

  74.  #74Dominique on February 11, 2014 at 6:02 am

    Emmie – I’m so sorry, yet you cannot convince a man to do anything, think anything. You can only share yourself as you have. And what he does with this is out of your hands.

    Really the best thing you can do for yourself and for this relationship is to get your focus back on you by filling your life up with your passions, activities that feel good, people who make you smile as well as taking really good care of YOU, rituals of self care, taking the time to FEEL any and all sensations, any and all emotions, lavishing love on yourself.

    He will come back, or he won’t, and the more space you give to him to figure himself and this out, the better chance you have of him coming back, yet you will be so immersed in your life, loving your life and yourself, you won’t feel the need to fret over this so much.

    No matter what happens, you will be okay.

    Love to you.


  75.  #75Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 6:12 am

    Rori I am reading The Dream Man and boy am I loving the way you express yourself poetically. I feel that I am experiencing life in the moment with Grace. So excellently written. It is amazing how our minds can create these dreams and we live with them like it is real.

  76.  #76Lisa on February 11, 2014 at 7:10 am

    OMG….. I cannot believe what is happening to me… I really want someone to pinch me… or tell me – he isn’t real…

    He ask me if I think it is possible for someone to know right off that that is the person for them… I said, yes, I do believe that does happen… ( rare- but it does happen)

    my NV’s want to tell me he is not being real…. and yet…. everything in my body feels he is being real…

    I was crying all day yesterday b/c Shannon was right my paradigm is getting rocked… my story of here is another man just telling me these things to “get me” and he isn’t for real…. But I don’t believe he is trying to Get Me — I feel he is the most sincere and authentic man I’ve ever met in my life…. I’ve never in my entire life ever, every had a man Get me like this man does… he knows how to finish my sentences… he knows my intent and I don’t have to explain myself it isn’t hard to talk to him it is so easy…

    He gets me and I get him….

    I’m so scared! that it isn’t real… I’m so scared, I’ll screw it up…

    He honestly listens to me… and really cares what I have to say…

    I’m a mess right now…. in a good way… in a I might have just won the lottery way… I don’t know… but this one is soooo very different than anyone else…

    Can this really be real??


  77.  #77Shannon on February 11, 2014 at 8:21 am

    Lisa, yes! Yes, it could!

    Keep this in mind, dear. You can’t say the wrong thing to the right one, so breathe!


  78.  #78Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 8:31 am

    Yes it could be Lisa. Men I believe know when they have found what they are looking for, right off the bat. Especially if they have dated around for a while and know themselves.

  79.  #79Daria on February 11, 2014 at 8:48 am


  80.  #80Daria on February 11, 2014 at 8:51 am

    im practicing inner bonding with myself, as i feel sadness.., mmmmmm

  81.  #81Indigo on February 11, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Mandy 54,

    Thank you so much 🙂 and the only way I feel ok about breaking up with someone is to remember that it’s kinder to both of us if I can’t be the person I would like to be in the relationship.

    As for your question about when he remarks on hot women, Dominique has a great article on that…

    As for a script, I would say something like “I so understand that men find many women beautiful, yet when I am with my man, I like to feel like the gorgeous one. I can’t feel that way if he is remarking on how other women look. I would love to feel gorgeous and desired.”

    For me, with a good man, this usually does the trick. If he persists with the comments, and you feel uncomfortable, you could always leave the room! That seems to work too.

  82.  #82Shannon on February 11, 2014 at 9:24 am

    You know, Lisa.

    Isn’t it a real shame that we’re taught things like, “If it feels too good to be true, it probably is”?

    The damage we do to each other with these kinds of statements… it feels very sad.

    All out of intending kindness, but then it becomes so hard to take simply joy in something wonderful.

  83.  #83Lisa on February 11, 2014 at 10:06 am

    @Shannon YES and boy are my negative voices working overtime today!… which tells me…big time… that there is something there… 😉

    breathing deeply… and working on receiving… and being in the moment… and accepting a GOOD man into my life….

    which eased my NV’s…..

    I think I had so much invested in being upset that the right man hadn’t come along… that I’m having a hard time believing that this one just might be him…. I’m so used to saying “next”..

    My friend said today I can’t think of a more perfect match than you and a mrg. counselor… you read the same books.. talk about the same things…

    Thanks! <3 <3


  84.  #84LoveAlways on February 11, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Akasha. The blog is Siren Island

  85.  #85Valarie O'Ryan on February 11, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Lisa, I was always “waiting for the other shoe to drop” in relationships. And it was just because I wasn’t used to a good man’s energy coming towards me.

    I was always suspicious.

    It wasn’t until I learned how to trust myself that I was able to open my heart without fear.

    And that’s when the good guys showed up & I no longer had that “other shoe dropping” feeling. So maybe, by doing the work, dating, opening yourself up – you’ve invited this amazing man who gets you into your life.

    And you deserve it – so enjoy it!

    P.S. My husband said he knew the moment he saw me that I was “his one.” He describes how he felt when I was walking towards him “with a big smile & a crooked walk” (still don’t know what he means by crooked, but he liked it so whatever…) 🙂

  86.  #86Turquoise on February 11, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Siren Island could also be the facebook group.

  87.  #87Cupcake on February 11, 2014 at 1:44 pm


    The 12-step group SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) deals a lot with Sexual Anorexia. There are some meetings specifically for sexual anorexics.

    There are support groups for people in S-fellowships, that work the way Al-Anon works for the partners and families of alcoholics. I think it’s just called S-Anon, but there are several different 12 step programs for sex issues, and I believe SLAA is the only one that deals with sexual anorexia.

    If J was abused as a child…that’s a big issue. I was once involved with a guy who’d been sexually abused by a family member. His marriage had been annulled after 18 months without consummation.

    That’s a hard row to hoe, my dear. A hard row to hoe.

    Your friend,


  88.  #88Cupcake on February 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Tonight there’s a storytelling event I’d really like to participate in. The theme for the night is “Love Hurts”, though– and I really just don’t want to go there.

    I’ve been trying to think of something funny to say about that.

    Inspiration eludes me.

    Maybe I’ll tell the story about the crop circles guy. 🙂

  89.  #89Turquoise on February 11, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    I just had a guy ask me if my profile was real on OK Cupid, or if I just wasn’t interested. I’m not interested, but did write him back and wish him luck. I’m kinda excited he thought it was too good lol.

  90.  #90Cupcake on February 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm


    What a Siren you are! 🙂

  91.  #91Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    hehe Turquoise. Really cute 🙂

  92.  #92Rori Raye on February 11, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    Valarie – Hi! So glad you’re here…All – Valarie O’Ryan is an amazing Rori Raye Certified Coach – so smart, so kind – really clever with scripts and how to love yourself. She’s here (go and download her great free “Unlock Your Power Of Attraction” Guide) at…Love, Rori

  93.  #93Lisa on February 11, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Ok he texted me today… couple of times.. cute texts and an e-mail….

    We talked for hours last night…

    and even after he bluntly ask me what it takes for me to take my profile down.. I answered b/c he ask me point blank.. a commitment …

    and still he hasn’t ask me out on the next date.. he says next time we see each other…..

    So I’m starting to feel frustration which means.. I’m ( too tired) and two not getting what I need right now … which is planned dates…

    I’m not setting aside my time for him… but V-day is friday and he alluded to the fact that I was his v-tine… but I’m getting frustrated…

    So, I’m not sure how to script it… out… this early in the dating ……OR DO I just lean back…. and see what happens…?? See if he leans forward…

    What do you Think Siren’s


  94.  #94Valarie O'Ryan on February 11, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Aww, Rori, thank you so much.

    It feels good being here – where I started as a fledging siren 🙂

  95.  #95Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Create the space for him to come to you. No need for urgency.

  96.  #96Valarie O'Ryan on February 11, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Lisa, I don’t know all of your story – how long have you been seeing him? When was your last date?

    If it’s been awhile & most of your communication seems to be through texts or phone calls, you can say something like this the next time he contacts you & doesn’t ask you out:

    “It feels so good when I see you in person & I feel a little bored with texts & phone calls. What do you think?”

    Then he has the chance the “fix” it.

    Just go all girl & soft on him. This is what feels good to you in a relationship. He gets to choose whether he wants to give it to you or not. You’re not demanding it of him.

    Because, frankly, If he doesn’t want to give it to you – another guy WILL.

  97.  #97Mandy on February 11, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Cupcake, Indigo, Dominique, Femininewoman, and Shannon, thank you. He does compliment me and hone he does I say thank you honey, and a smile at him real warm and big.
    So I have these things to say:

    “I so understand that men find many women beautiful, yet when I am with my man, I like to feel like the gorgeous one. I can’t feel that way if he is remarking on how other women look. I would love to feel gorgeous and desired.”

    “Wow she’s really hot, I feel jealous”.

    “Wow. I feel totally turned off. My standards for my relationship are higher than that.”

    I think the second one might be the safest with him. Dominique let me know he can’t hear too much negativity or else he will stop trying to “win” me and will give up and think he can never make me happy.

    As far as SLAA, the only one that deals with sexual anorexia, I will need to look it up.

    Thank you all for your help, so much! LOVE!

  98.  #98Dominique on February 11, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Lisa – 93 – I think it’s too early for a script. If he wants to see you, he will make sure there are plans in place whether he’s good at this usually or not. Even the clueless men know that Valentine’s Day is a special day for most women. Please don’t wait around.

    If you continue to date him, and this kind of behavior continues, then we can talk about a little heart-to-heart.


  99.  #99Dominique on February 11, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    Mandy – 96 – You’ve got this. I feel in awe at how far you’ve come since I’ve known you. YAY you!!!


  100.  #100Lisa on February 11, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    @Dominique OK no I’m not going to wait on him, if I had another offer, I’d go for it…

    problem is, I don’t… strange, how this keeps happening to me…I start dating one and then there is no others to include in the circle…

    I’ll just keep my plan for Saturday night and then if he asks me out… all I have is Sunday…


    @Valerie O’Ryan Thanks!!! <3


  101.  #101Zia on February 11, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Hi Ladies! So M has made plans with me for Valentines day. Actually mapped out the entire evening which is really nice and thoughtful! Don’t really have much more to report, he’s a nice guy and is present and remembers things that I say. The only thing I can see as an issue is the fact that his wife and he separated only a few months ago. That doesn’t bother me on its own, unless it effects things between us but so far it hasn’t. I’m not really interested in hearing anything to do with that and he doesn’t really raise it much conversation wise (outside of when the conversation may turn to previous relationships naturally). SO yeah, all good! I’ve not shut down other options yet (not that I’m actively dating).

  102.  #102Mandy on February 11, 2014 at 7:43 pm


    I feel SO good to hear you say that, since you are a master at being a Siren, and have the relationship to prove it, so coming from you it means so much!

    Funny thing is…my man said it too, about a week or so ago…that I’ve grown in leaps and bounds in my self-esteem and general bodaciousness!! I will need to write that on a note and stick it to my mirror to remind me!!!! 😉 That’s what I’ll remember when I feel at odds about myself 🙂

    Thank you so much! 😀

  103.  #103Femininewoman on February 11, 2014 at 7:47 pm


  104.  #104Indigo on February 11, 2014 at 8:52 pm

    Wow Mandy, 101,

    What a wonderful compliment coming from your man 🙂

  105.  #105Kyla on February 11, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    New guy asked me out for Friday as he was driving me home tonight, has it all planned out, reminded me it was vday and he wanted to spend it with me, suggested I drive, I said oh I don’t want to drive, he immediately said no problem he’ll pick me up at (time). He’s such a planner, step up guy. I feel happy and safe and centre of attention with him. He’s attractive and we’ve kissed a few times which felt nice but I wasn’t really feeling turned on by him.. Tonight I really took notice of the way I felt while I was with him, what he did, how he reacted to me. He’s so attentive, and fun and kind and it feels so good to be with him. I feel effortless, there’s no tension or internal pressure. We were kissing in the car before I got out and suddenly I felt my whole pelvis flood with warm tingly feelings and I was turned on and melted into the front seat.. he felt it because he pulled back and smiled at me with this huge grin and gentle eyes and pulled me close to say goodnight and was almost skipping back to his car as he left. I need to pick a name for him but nothing really stands out yet. He seems to be a Good Man. I don’t think I’ve ever really been with a Good Man.

    DrWho text to promise once he gets his schedule under control he will make it up to me and we will have the fun date he’d tried to organise before. I feel meh.. I responded finally but kept it short.. I’d like to go there as it would be exciting but I don’t feel excited by him now, I feel hung over and I really don’t care if he contacts again or not. He is perfect but not pursuing me like my Mr Right would and I’ve finally lost the addiction. His schedule is crazy, travels a lot for work and he may also be seeing other woman or just too messed up since his marriage failed, who knows.. I’m just not feeling the waterwheel coming to me and I really get that now, its not about who he is, its how he makes me feel and whether he can meet my relationship needs.

    Archer text to ask if I’d thought anymore about meeting up on the wkd, I said no, I asked what you had in mind a week ago (got no response). He said he will make me dinner if I drive to him. I didn’t respond as I already told him on our last date I didn’t want to drive. I feel bored.

    R was emailing the last few days and it felt comforting, then he responded last asking when I planned on visiting. I felt stunned. I told him I have no plans to visit. He said too bad. I sat with that for a moment like a lead ball in my lap and then felt the anger and despair rise up again and wash over me and said goodbye, again.

  106.  #106Kyla on February 11, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    Oh and New Guys license plate is my birthday, weird coincidence 🙂

  107.  #107Helena Hart on February 11, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    Kyla – 104 – I love this: “…its not about who he is, its how he makes me feel and whether he can meet my relationship needs.”

    It sounds like you’re choosing these men with your “girl” energy – how it FEELS to be with them and whether or not their energy is coming towards you, rather than with your “boy” energy – which would be focusing on their external qualities.

    That’s fantastic!!! 🙂

    Love, Helena

  108.  #108Amber on February 11, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    Hi Sirens… Finally I’m caught up with all of the comments. My weekend flew by and I didn’t visit the blog much. I got called into work Friday, then gave my nieces 3yo & 5yo thier first official horseback riding lesson. I’m starting them young. Between work, nieces, horses and my mom’s wildlife appeal, I have had no time to think about any of my CD’s. And you know what? IT WORKED!
    Friday (T) got in touch. Maybe a few of you remember that I had put him off for a few hours while I was at work on Thursday, and he shut off his phone directly after the last text when I didn’t answer immediately. Oops, sorry, his phone DIED 😛
    Whatever. I leaned way back after that.
    So he got in touch on Friday and WOW is he stepping it up. Came over to watch a movie, brought wine, took me for Mexican food when I mentioned I was hungry. Well, I drove his car… his LEXUS sports car which I LOVE DRIVING (this is by no means the first time) The reason the car sticks in my mind is this. It’s fancy, and so you can program specific settings for different people. Steering wheel height, seat position, etc. Obviously, when you press #1 it adjusts for (T). When you press #2, guess who it adjusts for… yup, ME! This is a small thing but it makes me smile. He stayed the night, which was great because a lot of times he has to leave for work at crazy hours. (like 2am, 3am) Sleeping in wasn’t an option because I had an early horse show, but it was nice to spend the whole night with him in MY bed.
    Saturday horse show was great. I was exhausted by the end but I took a hot bath and took myself out for karaoke. This might be my new Saturday night date. ME and karaoke. I love it. Anyway, (T) text me asking where I was and when I replied that I was at the bar singing karaoke he said “The bar scene isn’t my thing anymore. I’m hoping you find what you need there.”


    I kept it together, Sirens. I am so proud of myself. Normally this would spark a fight (which I suspect is why he does it)
    ME: I feel judged. Feeling judged feels sad and misunderstood.
    T: I’m not one to judge by any means. You have to do what makes you happy. I’m just not sure that includes me

    I was SO triggered! REALLY?! I wanted to shout. “If you don’t want me at the bar then give me a good alternative.” There were originally some expletives in that shout/thought, too, but I edited for content. Instead of what my TRIGGER wanted me to say,
    I replied: I don’t feel comfortable inviting myself over to your house, but i would rather have been with you than at the bar. I feel happiest with you”

    Please keep in mind I was a few glasses of rum/diet coke in. I think I was doing pretty well, lol

    T: I’m not sure I believe that yet.
    ME: Okay. I hear you. Truthfully, I feel kind of needy and desperate when I’m sitting around waiting for an invitation
    T:Why are you sitting around. You have so many others at your disposal.
    (This felt like a trick question, and I’m not sure I replied correctly, but going on the assumption that I can’t say the wrong thing to the right man, I’m trying not to beat myself up over it.)
    ME:I feel icky going out with other men. Singing makes me feel happy. I want to sing for myself
    T: Good forme you. You need to do what makes you happy. I hope you find what you like.
    (That was his typo, not mine “forme you”)
    ME: I feel happiest when I’m with you. I want to spend time with you more than anything else.

    I think he went to sleep after that, and I did, too. Then I spent most of Sunday leaning WAY BACK, even in my thoughts. He text me Sunday afternoon and then came out to watch me ride my horse (a first) and joined me for ‘wine night’ with a group of my friends Sunday evening. And again spent the night at MY house. I don’t know that I did everything right this weekend, but I sure feel good about the outcome.
    Cheers to US, Sirens. We are AMAZING creatures!

  109.  #109Zia on February 11, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Kyla – What you described about your New Guy sounds EXACTLY like my situation! Yay!

  110.  #110Millie on February 11, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    Amber that sounds so great!!! I’m so happy for you!
    And your slightly tipsy conversation sounded really good! It sounded like you were able to connect with how you felt, and if I were on the other end of that conversation, as a man, I would feel good hearing you felt happiest with me! Yay you!!!

  111.  #111Mandy on February 11, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    Indigo – yes I feel certain Rori would say this is a GOOD and attractive thing to him! 🙂 SO…happy butt dance! 😀

  112.  #112Millie on February 11, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    Shannon– I love the “turn off” comment. It’s actually truthful….I do feel turned off when men do/say certain things, especially when it’s attached to boasting sexual prowess.

  113.  #113Millie on February 11, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    My little girl cried last night. It feels different to cry now, maybe because I feel like I can recognize that that pain that wants to come out in tears is not ALL of me, it is a part of me. The part that is a little girl who feels lonely or didn’t get what she wanted and crying is the only thing she knows what to do about it. I almost felt like it was easier to allow myself to cry and accept myself crying. If that makes sense. The little girl needed some love and attention. I gave her some attention by allowing her to cry, the love part, I’m working on….I just picture myself giving me a huge hug and being very soothing, like if I was hugging my grandma.

  114.  #114Amber on February 11, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Thanks, Millie!
    I feel so happy to hear that. I guess I needed that conversation validated more than I thought. Re-reading it I wondered if I wasn’t just pasting “I feel” into a leaning forward situation.

    Update: (T) just called me. I answered, because I literally only had two minutes of work left. (I have a personal rule about NOT talking with him while I’m working, but I bent it tonight.)
    HE thanked ME for making him feel special on Sunday night
    He also said (I’m paraphrasing because i can’t remember exactly) “I don’t know what’s different from before. Before I didn’t like where things seemed to be going with us. It didn’t feel good. You seem different now, and I like it. I feel like I just want to follow my heart and explore more with you.”

    I melted. Right in the middle of the machine shop where I work, I just stood still, closed my eyes and MELTED. I told him I would LOVE to explore things further with him.

    The most beautiful thing about this is that for the first time, words like these don’t trigger expectations in me. I don’t EXPECT that now he will morph into a romantic, sweep me off my feet and carry me away. I don’t EXPECT that now everything will magically fall into place. I have chosen a “difficult” man (according to Rori’s test in ‘Toxic Men’) and I love him.

    FYI ladies, I paraphrased a bit of Rori and a bit of Dominique, and I now have my text messaging set up to send me this message EVERY DAY:

    “Through my heart, all wounds are healed.”

    It reminds me every day that I MUST be in touch with my HEART for things to improve, and also that things WILL improve if I can stay in touch with my heart.

    One more update- just this minute I got this text from (T):Thank you for your love it hasn’t gone unnoticed

    ME: Thank you, I feel cherished and loved.

    I DO feel cherished and loved. It feels like lightness and freedom. It feels like happiness.

  115.  #115Helena Hart on February 11, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    Amber – 114 – This is so beautiful: “It reminds me every day that I MUST be in touch with my HEART for things to improve, and also that things WILL improve if I can stay in touch with my heart.”

    It sounds like the tools are working brilliantly for you and things are going well with (T)!

    Love, Helena

  116.  #116Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 2:10 am

    I love reading the success stories

    Congrats Mandy, Kyla and Amber. Sounds wonderful.

  117.  #117Mandy on February 12, 2014 at 3:52 am


    Wow, you’re good with feeling messages!!!!

  118.  #118Nermo on February 12, 2014 at 4:17 am

    Good afternoon Sirens,
    Today is a warm day..and i feel romantically inclined and also confused on where to direct my romantic vibe. I like my date (the one i have been seeing for the past 2 months), i texted him this morning with “Good morning” text’ and i told him that i had a “hot” dream of him, he was really flattered. However, he did not yet book me for valentines day.. and i feel confused.
    so far, I have received two valentines invitations, one from a nice guy, and the other from a friend who is throwing a single mingle party. What shall i do if he comes last minutes and asks me out? I am hesitant to confirm on the two invitations i received so far? He is my first choice..but i do not want to sit and wait.
    Rori advised to treats all dates equally, but so far my date has been quiet good to me, and it will feel bad to cancel him if he comes at the last minute.. Any advices sirens?

  119.  #119Mandy on February 12, 2014 at 4:24 am

    Thank you Femininewoman 🙂

  120.  #120Nermo on February 12, 2014 at 4:31 am

    Wow Amber, reading your post is inspirational. I love how you connect with your feelings even at moments of tension and confusion. I want to train myself to feel and speak with equal power.
    Thanks for sharing 🙂

  121.  #121Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 4:59 am

    Kyla – 105 – SO lovely. 🙂


  122.  #122Syreena on February 12, 2014 at 5:39 am

    Feels good to hear you are in a better place than you were Mandy.

  123.  #123April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 5:40 am


    I think it was Shannon who said that men can get their fix of us on the phone, and that’s why it’s best to keep it short. A couple of hours on the phone with a new guy could be filling him up enough. If you keep conversations short, he’ll know he has to see you to get his ‘fix’.
    Being available for long phone conversations might look like it lowers our value. We have fun-filled siren lives to lead, after all.

  124.  #124Andrea on February 12, 2014 at 6:13 am

    I feel so magical and inspired today. I feel the rightness of this journey today.
    I’ve been so caught up in my new little cable show and with writing and practicing poetry for the poetry slam contest on Thursday night, that I haven’t had any chance at all to be concerned with dating or men or being single.
    I’ve been busy and bouncy and excited about life and happy and reciting poetry all over our apartment.
    Well, the most sireny sweet special thing happened last night.
    My thirteen year old daughter came into my office and she says, “Hey mom, I have this poem I’ve been working on. I stayed up all night to finish it.”
    And then she recited a spoken word poem about how she feels when kids at school use the “N” word around her.

    Why is this so exciting??? Not only was her spoken word passionate, inspiring, thoughtful, and great, but I realized once more with a stunning clarity: OUR DAUGHTERS EMULATE US!!!!

    I’ve been putting energy and focus and heart into MY passion for poetry. My daughter just took that right up and started writing poetry. She has been noticing changes in me, confidence, happiness, vitality for life, and is equating that with me following my little passion for poetry. It’s exciting and scary.

    I think back to last year and how focused I was on my exboyfriend. How much did my daughters pick up on that vibe?? ugh… But now, oh now!! The tides are changing and we are finding ourselves again and my daughters are getting a whole woman as their mother, and it’s not too late!! It’s not too late.

    I’m so thankful for this blog and for finding Rori’s work. It has changed me and it is helping me to be a better woman and mother for my daughters. I just feel so triumphant this morning. It’s a victory!!!

  125.  #125Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 7:00 am

    Yayy Andrea!!!!

  126.  #126Leigha Baker on February 12, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Andrea – I LOVE LOVE LOVE reading what you just wrote!! 🙂

    I also feel really passionate about this. I feel so grateful for everything I’ve learned here so I can be the best example of what self love looks like for my daughter.

    There’s nothing I want more than for my daughter to see herself as beautiful, and love not only her strengths, but weaknesses too (or what she perceives as weaknesses) – and it starts with me loving all of myself.

    Love it!!!!

  127.  #127April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 7:28 am

    Something I would like to explore, which came up several times in Rori’s Love Forever teleclass.

    She said that the kind of man to be in a relationship with is one who cherishes your feelings before his own comfort level.

    Her own husband is often checking in on her comfort.

    I feel a little dazed imagining that!

    I have to ask for help with my comfort levels (e.g. asking WM if we could move out the junk that’s in the hallway in order to feel more clarity in our living space) and so often when I make my feelings known, I am met with his irritation. He makes it clear that my comfort levels are not a priority. They are a nuisance and an intrusion on his life.

    Reminds me of my Dad. My Mum had the discomfort of a leaky washing machine for two years before he got us a new one.

  128.  #128April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 7:29 am

    Andrea, I’m speechless.

    I always feel thrilled when I see you have made a posting. And I feel constantly surprised and delighted by your energy and your discoveries.
    This one feels extra special.

  129.  #129Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 7:31 am

    So, a while ago, my ex gave me 8 weeks to vacate his house. Now he’s mad that I told our daughter without consulting him or having him be there while she was told.

    I told him I was sorry he felt excluded, and he just came back at me with another rant about how I told her without him.

    I feel like just ignoring him, but honestly, I don’t want to alienate him before I get moved out.

    Any scripting help here? I don’t feel like, as her primary caretaker, I need to ask his permission to tell her we’ll be moving.

    So I need something like, it would feel good to me to be told when you want something kept from her until we can do it together. I am so sick and tired of guessing what he wants (because no matter what I do, he’ll find something ELSE to have a fit over, anyway).

    He makes himself unavailable whenever it strikes his fancy… but I’m somehow supposed to magically inform him of everything she’s doing… except not everything. I’m supposed to magically know what he DOES care about knowing, and what he DOESN’T care about knowing.

    *rips hair out by the roots and screams*

  130.  #130April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 7:37 am


    It sounds to me that you are very good at expressing what displeases you.
    And that is why this man gave up on trying to make you happy.

    You are both stuck in a rut, witholding your best selves from each other.

    No-one wants to be vulnerable here.

    I am wondering what your daughter is picking up from this.

    I am feeling sad for you all.

  131.  #131Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 8:03 am

    Wow, I don’t even know what to say. I feel furious. That’s what you got out of him emailing me to lay into me about how angry he is at me?

    Talk about being triggered!

    NOBODY WANTS TO BE VULNERABLE? What do you call weeping and sobbing and saying how sorry I was for my part of making things fail??

    I seriously need to get away from the computer now.

  132.  #132Syreena on February 12, 2014 at 8:49 am

    Shannon. Take care of yourself honey.

    If he wants to be fully involved in her life an be a fully involved parent he needs to choose to grow up and be there.

    If not and he wants to ‘play’ at being a part time Daddy he doesn’t much of a say about what or when you inform your child about anything.

    He’s either by your side and in it bringing up your child together .
    Or he’s mainly out of it and you call the shots as you are the one who is going to be there 24/7 being the parent and he gets to swan in and out when he feels like it trying to dictate what you can and can’t say and when.

    Good luck and I hope he either grows up or mans up or you find a better grown up partner for you and your daughter. Hugs. X

  133.  #133Syreena on February 12, 2014 at 8:50 am

    The moment he decides he wants to be a part time Daddy is the moment he gets very little say any more if you ask me.
    His choice.

  134.  #134Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 9:47 am

    Amber- 114 – <3 So beautiful.


  135.  #135Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Nermo – 118 – If he’s not booking your time, then he’s not booking your time. I would encourage you to accept the invitation which feels best to me, and if your preferred guy comes through at the last minute, tell him something like – I would love to see, yet I already have plans.

    If he wants to see you going forward, he will begin to see that he needs to call sooner.


  136.  #136Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Andrea – 124 – Gorgeous and inspirational. YAY you!!!


  137.  #137Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 9:55 am

    Shannon – 129 – Open and honest communication would feel so much better for me. I don’t want to guess. What do you think we can do here to fix this?


  138.  #138Indigo on February 12, 2014 at 10:10 am


    I feel instinctively that you need to distance yourself from his rants and trying to figure him out.

    You are entitled to be yourself here. You are your daughter’s mother, and you are entitled to do what you feel is best for her. There was no intention on your part to exclude him, you know that, and if I were you, I would tell him that and then absolutely distance yourself from his anger and tell him you want no part in it.

    He is yanking you around, in my view.

    If you can, I would respond in a very calm, respectful way, but tell him how you need to be treated and spoken to. And then distance yourself.


  139.  #139Veronica on February 12, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Amber – 114 – Wow, this was beautiful to read :
    “I melted. Right in the middle of the machine shop where I work, I just stood still, closed my eyes and MELTED.
    The most beautiful thing about this is that for the first time, words like these don’t trigger expectations in me. I don’t EXPECT that now he will morph into a romantic, sweep me off my feet and carry me away. I don’t EXPECT that now everything will magically fall into place.”
    I want to feel that way.

    FW – 116 – Yes! Me too!

    Andrea – 124 – I’m so glad that your daughters get to experience and witness this full you.

  140.  #140Dominique on February 12, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Shannon – 137 – In case this wasn’t clear, this is a proposed script for you.


  141.  #141Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 10:52 am

    This is what I told him. It’s about more than just the issue of what I tell her…

    “”I need your help on this, John. I really don’t feel good coming to you in your room about things. It feels like I’m hunting you down to bring up “parenting things”. It feels to me like I’m being pushy and like I’m making decisions about how involved you will or won’t be in her care. That feels to me like I’m managing and directing and it just feels awful. I feel resentful when I do it. I feel wrong and bad, and that feels very painful; it hurts my heart and I feel like crying. It feels bad sending her into your room, and it feels bad asking if you’ll put her to bed. This just feels to me like I’m expected to make decisions for you, and I don’t want to. It feels bad to make assumptions, and it feels bad to feel rebuffed when I make the wrong ones (and it feels like I always get it wrong).

    I want to be the best mom I can be for Kira. I don’t want to feel responsible for your relationship with her. Whether it’s coming upstairs to ask you about something, or asking about snow tubing, it all feels like managing things to me, and it all feels miserable. I feel lost and confused, and I just want to be her mom to the best of my ability.

    I feel so responsible for so many things right now. I have so much on my plate and it feels overwhelming and terrifying and exciting and so many things. One thing that just doesn’t feel good at all is trying to figure out how to be “right” in you and Kira’s relationship. It feels less like I’m helping and more like I’m interfering, even when it’s just asking if you can do something or want to do something.

    What do you think?””

  142.  #142Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 10:55 am

    This is the one I had sent prior to that, so that it’s clear I didn’t just rag on him:

    “” It feels great to see you taking an active interest in her and spending time with her. It has felt wonderful to watch you do the site changes and be active in her medical care, and it feels exciting to see you taking her to do things like snow tubing. It would feel good to be told what I should keep from her ahead of time in the future. I feel that it is not as obvious to me as it might be for others. “”

  143.  #143Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 12:39 pm


    Just to let you know………some of your statements are really not feelings, they are thoughts. Also part of Rori’s struggle if I remember correctly after she had her daughter was choosing words such as “our daughter” as opposed to “my daughter”.

    My gut is telling me that he is actually angry at himself. You know best because you are in the situation but I suspect he is feeling like the bad guy her and regretting his decision. So yeah he is nit picking trying to switch roles.

    Please look again at your script and see how many times you say you feel bad. That kinda jumped at me and I do understand how you must be feeling. This is just meant to pay attention here to see if you can look deeper into your feelings to see if you can find other words to express it.

    “When I come to your room I am reminded of the good times we shared together” or “I feel like a stranger in the life of the man I loved”. When I send her to your room to ask you to put her to bed I feel like a beggar looking for crumbs and my heart feels like it just dies when I think of her begging you to daddy her. I keep telling myself that I have failed our beautiful daughter. I want to believe that it is your intention to be a good father to her and I want to give you the space to do that. I am feeling so vulnerable and I don’t know what to do. Can you help me with this?”

    Something along those lines is what I am thinking. Dominique’s script is great, short and to the point. I believe it is best to keep it short and to the point.

  144.  #144Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    Shannon – What do you call weeping and sobbing and saying how sorry I was for my part of making things fail??

    Sorry but likely he would not call this being vulnerable either. This might make him feel guilty or even angry. He might even interpret it as you begging him to take you back. So many different things. He could have taken it personal and think that he made you cry. Again feeling guilty and disappointed in himself as a failure.

    I hear ” I feel lost and confused, and I just want to be her mom to the best of my ability.

    I have so much on my plate and it feels overwhelming and terrifying” as vulnerable.

    It kinda reminds me of some of the things Rori discusses in Reconnect Your Relationship.

  145.  #145Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    Thanks, FW. That felt hard to read, because that was how I felt, but I’m not sure I feel that way anymore. Now I just feel like I’m chasing after him when I feel so over the whole thing. I don’t know that I care anymore how he feels. It has been so many years of being told that I was never good enough, and everything was my fault… and I just don’t think I can take any more of it. I don’t even want to use him for practice, because I did the being vulnerable thing and I got my face kicked in for it. That was about as vulnerable as I can get with this guy right now…

    But I will look at it again and see if I can figure out which are just thoughts. Thank you.

  146.  #146Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Syreena, I kind of feel that way, too. I feel conflicted on it, though. Part of me is like, be a good person and let him share in the responsibility and part of me is like, he had his chance and he never did… why should I bother when he hasn’t?

    Ugh. Is it over yet?

  147.  #147Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Dominique, thank you. I was too late to use that this time; however, I think it’ll come back up, and I’ve written that down. I need to learn how to be less wordy. :p

  148.  #148April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    In Rori’s teleclass, she taught the importance of being warm when he’s in front of you, and taking distance (as in living your own life) when he’s not.

    Warmth and distance.

  149.  #149April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    Warmth, no matter what.

    Jeez. Not, not, not easy.
    I had to break through every last ounce of my pride and defences to be warm to WM through those cold months when he had checked out on me.

  150.  #150April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    And I believe that it was the persistence of my warmth that brought him round.

  151.  #151April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Looks like weakness to stand in front of a man who doesn’t give a sh*t about you and hold your heart open.

    This is the hardest practice.

    And possibly the most rewarding.

  152.  #152Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    April, I don’t think I want to invite him back in. I don’t want warmth anymore. I did, and it just made him go away… until now it just feels like inviting the spider into my parlor.

    I don’t feel safe with him at all. Any vulnerability I do show him is something he uses to punish me.

    I don’t want to live with that. I don’t want to be vulnerable to someone who will just use it to spite me. I just don’t. I don’t trust him with my feelings anymore. He doesn’t have the right to this most precious part of me, he has kicked it too many times now since I started this process.

    I feel like the puppy with a swollen eye and the ripped ear that still crawls up and licks the boot of his master, groveling. I just can’t do it anymore. I’m struggling as it is to just be around him and not scream my head off with how often he purposefully and with very clear premeditation uses what I say against me.

    This hasn’t made things better, it has just made him meaner.

  153.  #153Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Oh, he gives a sh*t. He enjoys inflicting pain and it’s been like that for a long time. It had gotten to the point where I literally dreaded him noticing me. And it’s only been in the last few weeks that I’ve begun to really realize how much I was afraid of him even so much as noticing me. Him noticing me meant he was going to say something nasty to me. It’s no different.

  154.  #154April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Staying warm in front of a cold, resentful, punishing man has taught me more than anything that I will never close off to MYSELF, no matter what cruelty I perceive in another person.

    It is an act of self-forgiveness.

  155.  #155Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    Shannon I do agree with April Rose here. Rori talks about the thrills of keeping such a man off balance. She also suggests keeping yourself open at all times. Not shutting off to some people and opening to some because when you shut down yourself it is hard work opening up again, especially when you want to. This staying warm is all for you. Not about him at all. You’ve just gotta believe it is one of the most rewarding feelings that you will ever experience when you can remain open regardless of what he or anyone else is doing.

  156.  #156Turquoise on February 12, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    I need a name for my new guy…. meeting him after work for a bit. I’ll let you know if I come up with something!

  157.  #157Liquid Light on February 12, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    I don’t know how useful it is to be open to someone who has the potential to be abusive or has been abusive. I’m not talking about physical abuse, abuse can happen without it being physical and it can still be very damaging. From what Shannon said, it sounds like she had been in a physically abusive relationship previously. It also sounds like she is in a very vulnerable place right now and the most important thing is for her to take care of herself and her daughter. So being open with someone like that could be an invitation to them to be abusive again. And because of her vulnerability and her susceptibility to this type of dynamic, it may make it hard for her to distinguish the difference. Just my 2 cents and part of this is just me (still) trying to make sense of my previous relationship dynamics.

  158.  #158Kyla on February 12, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Oh April Rose it is so hard to do and so amazing. I found Rori after leaving an abusive marriage and although I needed the distance for safety it wasn’t until I was able to be open and warm again while communicating that we were able to get on the same page re parenting. I would look at him as a child, another human scared and desperate for love and not knowing how to get it. It healed me tremendously. It melted away the walls. We were 2 kids hurting each other and not knowing how to stop. When I changed, he changed too. He wanted to be a good ex and good dad, make my life easier and do whatever he could to help. He let me move our kids across the ocean so I could be with family and have better work opportunities. Now he sends me emails asking if there’s anything he can do to help or if I need to off-load about the kids he’s happy to listen. Our whole relationship has shifted and is no longer toxic and full of bitterness and power struggles.

  159.  #159Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Kyla that felt so good to read. I believe most men believe that they are good guys and really deep down want to be.

  160.  #160Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Well, someone will have to explain ‘be warm’ to me. Because I feel about as warm towards him as I would feel lying naked on my belly in a snowdrift with someone shoveling snow on me.

    So how does one fake it? I thought we weren’t supposed to fake it.

    Frankly, right now, I detest the guy. How am I supposed to be warm when all I want is to gouge his eyes out and all I feel is “great, here we go again”?

  161.  #161Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    And LL, you have definitely kept up with what I’ve said here, thank you. It goes well beyond that, though. I’ve been through some very brutal torture as a child. My life has been described as “a personal holocaust” because I’ve literally eaten dog food on the floor when I was 3-6 years old and fought the dogs for it (and lost a lot of the times). That’s the least of it.

    So opening myself up, intentionally, to be punished and treated with open hate and disdain, feels like betraying myself and letting myself be harmed again. I am no longer helpless, and I’m being told to ignore my own hurt and misery and just wallow in it, when I do NOT feel strong enough to do so.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    “I feel like the puppy with a swollen eye and the ripped ear that still crawls up and licks the boot of his master, groveling.”

    Oh my. So beautifully expressed. (((((((((Shannon)))))) This is the kind of vulnerable I would be using with this guy. This is what I see as open in these circumstances. This is how you feel and your feelings are precious.

  163.  #163Liquid Light on February 12, 2014 at 2:01 pm


  164.  #164Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    OH ((((((((((((Shannon))))))))))))

    I feel so tearyeyed reading your story.

  165.  #165Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Your story could be bestseller. Have you considered telling Rori your story and reaching out to her to see if she could help you along with being one of her coaches at a reduced price? How about working in an abused women’s shelter? It is sad but a very powerful experience that could help so many others.

  166.  #166Femininewoman on February 12, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    I know in the past this community helped out another woman. There’s gotta be something that women here could do to help you Shannon. I feel like my heart just got ripped out of my chest.

  167.  #167Liquid Light on February 12, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Because I feel about as warm towards him as I would feel lying naked on my belly in a snowdrift with someone shoveling snow on me.

    OMG, Shannon, this is so funny! I admire that you are able to have such a great sense of humor in such a difficult situation. You’ve got a lot of courage girl! Hang in there, its going to get better!!!

  168.  #168Kyla on February 12, 2014 at 2:25 pm


  169.  #169April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    “… How am I supposed to be warm when all I want is to gouge his eyes out? ”

    Feel the anger. Let it warm you. There is the warmth.

  170.  #170April Rose on February 12, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    And write your life story as a novel.


  171.  #171Liquid Light on February 12, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    Yes, great idea! Definitely a bestseller and full of humor I’m sure! 🙂

  172.  #172BeLoved on February 12, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    “… How am I supposed to be warm when all I want is to gouge his eyes out? ”

    Haha I thought the same thing as April Rose – what’s warmer than white hot rage? 😀

    I’ve been known to say, “I feel so angry I feel like sticking a fork in your eye right now.”

    Or when I’m really pist, “I feel so pist I could just spit.”

    I don’t know…with the guy I said it to, it was hilarious. He would say, “Wow, you’re so violent!” and lean forward and put his arm around me and we would laugh and laugh.

    I would give just about anything to feel that with a man again…like…anything is ok. We could say anything and everything and it’s all good because we just love each other so crazy much.

    Oh, now I’m crying…and laughing. Awesome.

  173.  #173Liquid Light on February 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    “Wow, you’re so violent!” and lean forward and put his arm around me and we would laugh and laugh.

    OMG, Beloved, this was so funny! Love it! You ladies are cracking me up today, thanks! It feels good to laugh!

  174.  #174Amber on February 12, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    I’m heading to the new thread. See you there, Sirens!

  175.  #175prplpsn28 on February 12, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    Dominique #98…apparently my man is extremely clueless. We have no plans for Valentines Day. As a matter of fact he’ll probably end up playing hockey that night. His usual friday night activity. Normally I don’t mind at all. I think it’s awesome and kinda sexy that he does. But it happens to be Valentines Day. Yes…I’m one of many women who takes this day to heart. Ugh

  176.  #176Shannon on February 12, 2014 at 7:47 pm

    Okay, so I went bowling. It was a scheduled singles thing. I feel good about it. When I got there, I was bowling 1s and 5s… by the time I left, I had made a strike (I know, right… a whole strike! :p ). So I was feeling very proud.

    We all went out to dinner after, and that felt wonderful, too. I felt the attraction of men towards me, even some quite younger guys. It felt very good!

    I still feel very sad and raw, but I feel less like a kicked puppy and a little more like a puppy grabbing a coat tail and growling. :p

    I feel strangely “both ends” right now. A lot of pain, but also some happiness and a sense of accomplishment.

    And I feel tired. So I’m off to bed.

  177.  #177Indigo on February 12, 2014 at 8:39 pm


    I feel very inspired by you.

  178.  #178Joyful7007 on February 17, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    It’s funny you bring this up… I (unintentionally) blew a guy off for 7 months (he let me know it had been that long) because I was Circular dating (unintentionally).
    Then I intentionally decided to do “The Rules” on the same guy who I am now dating. We went out once and it went great. The second date was on Valentine’s Day at his house and I ended up having sex with him (which is not “The Rules”). I got scared and left in the middle of the night. He texted me the next day and said he had a great time and asked when he could see me again. Only now the last two days he has backed way off. I am feeling really scared and anxious. I foresee him disappearing.
    Sex is really emotional for me so I don’t typically do it very easily or quickly. Do I tell him I feel embarrassed that I slept with him so soon or do I just keep quiet and see if he comes my way and try not to “freak out” about it? I’m beginning to see that it’s not always possible to stick to a hard fast set of “rules.”


  179.  #179Lynne on February 20, 2014 at 12:36 am

    Looking forward to hearing more of your advice. Great insights on men. Thanks for the share.

  180.  #180Saida on February 20, 2014 at 8:27 am

    I don’t get it…I’m starting to get attached to one of the men I have been dating…I’m 68 he is 62…have been having wild sex with each other. Found each other on Match. We are both still on Match, I have been getting responses, going out for one hour dates with bunches of men from Match, POF and Our Time, but I get jealous thinking that he, J, is also going out with others. He tells me I am the only one he is interested in…I’m bewitching him, the most sexy/sensual women he has known, the best weekend he has ever had, he was a sales marketing director for a fortune 500 company, but if he doesn’t call or email me I go into jealous mode, don’t blame him, just get scared.

    Any suggestions out there? I feel like he might be a player…he told me he had cheated on his wife about 3 times; which didn’t make me feel secure. My ex-husband and ex-Significant other of 12 years cheated on me.

    I’m struggling with this.

    Question if we are CDating, should they be able to do so, and how to fend off the jealousy?

  181.  #181Rori Raye on February 20, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Saida – Hi – and this is all a personal thing. If you’re looking for life-long commitment and marriage…then you’ll have to stay cool. Meaning – you can’t control a MAN, but you can control your own emotions. Jealousy and fear will only push a man away. Security, serenity, Siren-ness will get a man. If he’s cheated before – I wouldn’t bet on him. The man who wants to be with a woman may not be as bells-and-whistles as this guy (wild sex, money, status…). My greatest advice is for you to hook up with one of my great Certified Coaches – I know I keep saying this, but it’s SUCH a bargain for what you get! This way, you get personal attention, you get the Tools APPLIED to YOU very specifically, you get held accountable for practicing, and you have someone to talk to about your jealousy who can help you FIX it! Love, Rori

  182.  #182Saida on February 20, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    How do you hook up with a coach, and how do you decide which one to use? How expensive is it?

  183.  #183Zara on February 21, 2014 at 2:29 am

    180 Saida

    Written by Rori Raye
    You Can Circular Date – But He CAN’T


    Here’s a question from Ankita – and my answer is all about how powerful your ATTITUDE is. How you can’t – NO ONE can be “cool” in a “loosey-goosey,” uncommitted (we’re talking serious marriage-level commitment) “relationship.”

    A relationship without serious LIFELONG commitment is just DATING. Really, that’s all it is. It may be wonderful, and it may be what you want, and it might even work for you just fine – but it still is just DATING!

    «Hello Rori & Sirens

    I want li’l help with my confusion on a concept of circular dating/commitment… Unless I clear my confusion, I may not be able to do CD properly…

    I happen to read in one of Rori’s eLetters, where she said, “Tell your man you love him and that you can’t be exclusive right now, write a speech to the man you’re with saying that “he’s entitled to take all the time he needs to decide about committing to a lifelong relationship with you, and that you feel awful waiting around, it’s making you feel insecure and frustrated and you don’t want to feel that way, and that other men are starting to ask you out and you want to feel free to explore your options until he makes a decision.”

    Then as he attacks us, we say, “Well, I don’t want you to date other women, I want you all to myself. And it doesn’t feel good to me to let you have me all to yourself until you’re ready to commit. I won’t be able to handle your dating other women.”

    I am getting confused at is it marriage I should want or is it he I should want? Or both? And if I’m CDing, why should I stop him from dating others? I guess, the answer is coz am ready to commit to him and he isn’t.

    I find the below two sentences very confusing:-
    1-> other men are starting to ask me out and I want to feel free to explore my options until you make a decision.

    2-> I don’t want you to date other women, I want you all to myself. And it doesn’t feel good to me to let you have me all to yourself until you’re ready to commit. I won’t be able to handle your dating other women.

    Please clear my confusion. I feel so confused..!! Ankita»

    Here’s my answer:

    Ankita -I know you’ll get help from everyone on the blog around this – but simply – you want your Happy Ever After.

    The commitment of marriage is only one option, but the strongest and the one you most likely would find the most satisfying. This is what you want. You do NOT just want HIM!!!

    If he’s not the one who wants more than anything to share your Happy Ever After, then he’s not what you want.

    Except in the first 3-4 (okay – I’ll stretch it to 6 in some cases…) months of dating someone, if he needs to date other women and doesn’t yet have marriage on the table…that’s HIS choice – but I’d feel pretty certain by then that he’s not zeroing in on you.

    And men zero in quickly – they just may not be ready to COMMIT!

    They like the “girlfriend” thing – who wouldn’t! Sort of “girl on call.”

    Getting the commitment is a leap of faith a man has to be capable of.

    The commitment has to come before he’s SURE in all respects. This is what you want in a man. Anything short of this just isn’t enough.

    The second speech happens if he “attacks” by saying – Well, if you date other men, then he’ll date other women…and it doesn’t work that way.

    Here’s your attitude: You’re only dating other men because he’s not ready to commit. Otherwise, you’d be committed to him.

    And – if he’s not ready, you feel unclear and uncertain if he ever will be, and so you’re merely giving him the space he needs as long as he needs it and taking care of yourself in the meantime.

    You would feel crazy and insecure if you “waited” for him and remained exclusive to him – you wouldn’t be able to keep it together emotionally, and you don’t want to feel insecure and always wondering how he feels.

    You want to feel calm and peaceful, and you want to feel loved.

    You want to trust you are loved.

    And commitment is what makes that possible.

    You don’t want to push him or the relationship, and so you’re taking care of yourself.

    Sometimes you feel confused and queasy and weird and at sea and not sure what to do.

    Can he help? What does he think you should do under the circumstances? As your friend and lover, what would he recommend as the best way for you to take care of yourself until he’s ready?



  184.  #184Zara on February 21, 2014 at 2:45 am


    You might get more answers on the last thread where Sirens are posting today



  185.  #185Kari on February 24, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    I met a man online and we seemed to have a lot in common. We texted, talked on the phone, and then met a couple of times. I leaned back and let him do the pursuing. It was great! Then we had plans on a Saturday and I didn’t hear from him. He texted and asked if we could reschedule. I said ok. Then he texted less and less. He said he had some unfortunate things happen and asked me to bear with him. I kept dating the other guys I had met and had almost forgotten about him when 3 weeks later I get a text from
    him. It says his dad passed away and he just ” fell” out for a while. I didn’t act mad, I felt all those feelings early on. He asked to meet again the next day and I said ok. The next day came and went and I still haven’t heard from him. I texted him and asked if we were supposed to meet. No response. Was he just playing with me. I can see that he’s on the online dating site. It felt really bad.

  186.  #186Shannon P. on February 25, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    Kari, it’s clear he realized that you’re so amazing and awesome that he can never measure up!

    He’s making excuses to himself for why he’s running away, but you know in the end, you’re just plain too awesome and he’s scared.

    Or maybe not. But you get to choose how you think of this sort of thing. You get to pick your own meaning to what he did, since you won’t ever know for a fact what he was thinking or doing.

    Maybe he’s married. Maybe he’s stupid. Maybe he’s a player.

    Maybe he realized that he’s a jerk and doesn’t deserve you.

    You’ll never actually know. You get to pick what meaning you give it, so make it a good thing!

  187.  #187Saida on February 25, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    Thank you all for your help. I had lots of fun with Joel this weekend. All because of what Rori is teaching us, I am for the first time in my life in a mutually loving relationship.

    I had a date Fri nite with someone else. Joel asked me to call him, he didn’t call me right back, this other guy did, I accepted, the Fri date, Joel called and wanted me to spend the weekend together. I told him I could but it would need to start Sat. He asked why and I told him about the other date. He got real quiet, then I told him about not wanting to get too needy around him, and what was I supposed to do when he didn’t /hadn’t called to make arrangements.

    When we got together he was sooooo loving. Two times on the weekend I needed to be real honest with him, that I felt sad. My jealousy/insecurity about a couple of things he said when we were in public triggered me. I told him that I was sad , that it wasn’t his fault, just my stuff, instead of trying to cover up my feelings. Some tears started flowing…the most romantic thing happened right there and then…in the middle of a very busy downtown, in front of lots of people he passionately kissed me. He is often telling me “I am bewitching him”; “What are you doing to me – girl” Thanks, Rori

    Questions- I sort of like going to his house. We live 40 minutes apart. I work in my home, and it is a way to get away for the weekend. Should I be insisting that he come here?

    I’m still confused about having him open car doors, put my coat on for me. I’m still doing that, but feel embarrassed waiting for him to do it. He does it without any hassle.

    I don’t want to slip into bad old habits…

    Want to keep the romance alive. He says I am the most sexy woman he has ever met. Me, imagine that? I take it all with a thank you, and some joking. We play a lot together. And ladies, doing those lap dances for your guys is incredibly fun and turns me way on.

    Lots of love to all of you…