Love Yourself – Healing In Los Angeles And Wherever You Live

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I’ve been waiting awhile to publish this – I wanted to make sure I really had something here that would be meaningful and helpful for you to love yourself even more.

Over the years, I’ve discovered some healing modalities that have worked for me – to the point where I consider these people angels and that they have immeasurably improved my physical, emotional and mental life.

I’ve narrowed my list down to the top 5 healing practitioners who’ve influenced my life (not in any order):

1. Matia Brizman – Chinese medical doctor

Her world-reknowned specialty is healing Interstitial Cystitis, which is an auto-immune disease closely aligned with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, Celiac, Hashimoto’s thyroid, and nearly every immune issue you can think of.

She’s a genius, true and simple, and a tireless and lovely woman devoted to her clients.  If you’re in Los Angeles and need help with any of this…let her office know I sent you.

2. The Feldenkrais Method

This you can find in whatever city you’re in – just google “feldenkrais your city here.”  Here in Los Angeles, I take class and private sessions with Ellen Sevy, Bridget Quibedoux, and several others. You can find Ellen at

Everyone who teaches this anywhere in the world (and you can find a teacher even in the smallest town) is amazing.

You’ll become more graceful, more mindful, softer in every way, more aware of your body and your mind and heart, and you’ll heal your physical ailments – including back and hip and arm and assorted aches and pains.

Feldenkrais teaches you to move with total mindfulness. You pay attention to your body in new ways and start to feel like a whole – moving all together – instead of pieces and parts moving separately.

3. Dr. Nathaniel Elkins – NUCCA Chiropractic –

Dr. Elkins is the only NUCCA chiropractic practioner in Los Angeles – and he’s an absolute, total doll. Find him here (his clients call him “Dr. Nate”)

I credit him and the gentle technique of NUCCA for a huge amount of physical healing for me. In September of 2009 I couldn’t walk. My leg had seized up, I was seeing everyone – MRIs, chiropractor, massage therapists, acupuncture, Pilates. Even if I tried to walk through the pain – my leg wouldn’t hold me up – it would give.

The diagnosis was arthritis in my hip referring pain to my groin – but Feldenkrais and NUCCA proved that assessment quite wrong.

Now I can walk, run – keep up – and whenever I tweak myself, I go back to Feldenkrais, Dr. Elkins – AND

4. The McKenzie Method.

I’ve known about this for ages, and so has everyone else.  And yet – you’ll be hard put to find a doctor or chiropractor who’ll use it on you, or teach you how to do it – because then they’d be out of a job.

Just get Robin McKenzie’s book – “7 Steps To…” from Amazon, do the 4 exercises it shows you – fix the way you sit in your car, in chair, at the movies (I put a rolled up blanket in my UPPER back and then lean over it, keeping my back curved at all times.

I can now drive without pain, sit without pain…and I do my McKenzie faithfully several times each day.

5. Ron Blair – Spiritual Counselor.

Ron is a practitioner at Agape Spiritual Center in Culver City. Rev. Michael Beckwith (from The Secret, yes…but he’s so much more than that)…) is Agape – and it’s a wonderful place.

I met Ron when my friend Virginia Feingold Clark took me to a Course In Miracles class there one Sunday last year, and I’ve gone to class every Sunday I can since.

Long ago, I was blessed to have an amazing “guru” in my life (who almost no one’s ever heard of ) – Dr.Donna Girard – who laid the basis for all the work I do.

Her work is still ground-breaking, unimaginably creative, and so deep. She was, for me, a true mystic. She’s gone now…and when I found Ron, I had that same feeling that I’d met someone who not only can tap into what’s really important in this universe, but can teach others to tap into it.

Ron’s in Los Angeles – and you can reach him here:  If you google him you might see him in some interviews – yet he’s extremely low profile. Being with him for 2 hours in class, and as long as I’d like in private sessions has deepened my own work, and shifted my life to even more peacefulness, fun and happiness.

If what you’re looking for is a spiritual teacher – he’s what you want.  I don’t know if he works by phone, but I imagine that would be fine with him.

I share these people with you (though there’s a huge part of me that wants to keep some of them a well-kept secret known only by me and a few others) because I want you to have what I have – even BETTER and MORE than I have. As much as you can hold!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 7:08 am

    Thank you Rori

  2.  #2Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 7:13 am

    I have heard of Feldenkrais before, just never followed up.

  3.  #3mali on February 20, 2012 at 7:25 am

    Ah, this is so inspiring… and I’m so excited to learn more! Thankyou Rori!! <3

  4.  #4mali on February 20, 2012 at 7:31 am

    Okay, so I went in and spoke to my ex-manager (I worked with him at the same store, but it was a branch in another city). They’re hiring people as the restaurant has just been re furbished.

    I was very honest about the fact that I could only work specific hours, and he said that he wasn’t blown away as he needed people who were more flexible.

    *sigh* I just didn’t want to tell him I could work anytime, only to see it blow up in my face. He said he’s give me a call next Monday to let me know if there’s anything he could do. But I’m scared that he won’t be able to offer me a job. And I really need the money!

  5.  #5Starla on February 20, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Mali, I definitely think you did the right thing. Don’t worry, he might call with a job:)

  6.  #6Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 8:22 am

    HUGS>>>>They would be lucky to have you working there. I hope it works out. Perhaps it is time to move on to a completely new venture?

    Perhaps your manager (seeming lukewarm by what you stated) is just obeying the natural fate of things by not offering you the job outright, and you’re being pointed in a different direction?

    I don’t know if you feel like this… but I’ll share about my work situation….

    I’m having some issues at work and feeling like I’m less than “needed” and it feels bad. There are some issues with my boss being less than supportive, and surprisingly, this is after I’ve been very successful in my professional growth and I suddenly feel unsupported by him.

    This has been really really upsetting me because I need the $$ and without the hours of work that I need, I’m suffering.

    I’ve realized it’s because I’m being pointedin a new direction, I want be open and follow the new path…but it is hard to do because I don’t have a clear vision. I need some solitude to obtain this.

    I have a feeling a new opportunity will present itself to both of us if we remain open to it….

  7.  #7Starla on February 20, 2012 at 8:25 am

    I’m not sure how to describe this guided meditation, but it is amazing, so I wanted to share

  8.  #8Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Rori, why is a blog on relationships giving advice and referrals to chiropractic, physiotherapy, medical practitioners?

  9.  #9Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 8:32 am

    Aurora Girl, I can’t speak for Rori, but I believe it is because healing is part of relationships or being ready for relationships/being successful in them, etc…she wants to share with us what has been helpful for her..
    That is my impression…

  10.  #10Starla on February 20, 2012 at 8:32 am

    I feel good with the holistic approach; emotional and physical well being are totally linked/inform our relationships.

  11.  #11Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Its soo weird because I just googled the Agape center in Culver City about 10 minutes before reading this article because one of my fb friends goes there!
    I don’t know much about this spiritual center but I just thought it was interesting I just looked at it and now here Rori is talking about it!!!

  12.  #12Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 8:36 am

    @ FW – from previous thread

    The end result of last night was that I agreed to be friends and informed him that I will label it as dating. Not so sure that I’m comfortable with such a decision because as I think of the various exchanges between us boils down to me feeling manipulated into making decisions regarding him.

    I know that we both love each other and we don’t want to be out of each others lives but I also realize that I allow him to pull the strings. It really hurt to hear him say that my decision to not be friends is selfish since it was because of my actions that got us here so I begin to feel that I’m a bad person who has mistreated him all the way around – first with my indiscretions and now with not wanting to be his friend. The manipulation also took place when he said that by being friends and hanging out doing things offers the chance that he can get to a point where he does trust me and since that is something I really want I fall for it. And what makes the confusion worse is the double talk.

    So what I’m feeling right now at this very moment is to not accept his phone calls at this time which I know is going to be hard to do. Hence my question how do I be friends without being friends?

  13.  #13Starla on February 20, 2012 at 8:37 am

    aurora girl, i’m sorry! i am such a debater sometimes. never mind me:)

  14.  #14Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Aurora Girl I recently received an email from somewhere else where they spoke about loving yourself. It includes doing things to pamper and empower different parts of the self that includes the mind, the body and the spirit. The email suggested that doing these things for oneself is a way of putting it out into the Universe that you are loving yourself.

  15.  #15Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Mocha it seems like self sabotage to me. He knows you fall for guilt trips so he use it. He can only manipulate you if you allow and accept that. I encourage you to look up the word friend and see if that is what you see in him. It is my humble opinion that he is not being your friend right now if being with him does not lift your self esteem and leave you feeling inspired and empowered in your life. If I were in your shoes I believe I would walk away. If he is your friend he would use one mistake to constantly beat you over your head. It might not be relevant here but it is my belief that every human being is entitled to make one big mistake in life. You made your mistake, apologized for it and trying to move forward but he won’t let you. I believe if another big problem comes up in the future this will still be his behavior. However, only you can decide.

  16.  #16Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:53 am


    correction “If he is your friend he would not use one mistake to constantly beat you over your head.”

    BTW I love your name. It carries a certain kind of lusciousness with it.

  17.  #17Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 8:58 am

    I agree with FW, your name is nice. It makes me think of a yummy drink. 🙂

    I feel your situation is difficult, and all I can say is do what is most beneficial for you and what works for you and makes you happiest. Perhaps he is putting pressure on you to look out for his feelings but you need to look out for your own??

    Just my thoughts…

  18.  #18Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Reading a few of your posts FW from the last thread are hitting home for me – the one from Alexandra Fox and Bob Grant. I also recall Rori saying that we don’t have to put the men we have deep feelings for out of our lives – just throw them on the back of our horse and ride!! I do not want to lose my relationship with KR but I don’t want to keep going in circles either. And as I’m babystepping with all this I feel more empowered until I experience an exchange like last night.

  19.  #19Starla on February 20, 2012 at 9:00 am

    My keyboard is broken, so I have to paste in the ‘a’ and ‘s’, which slows my posting down quite a bit. It really forces me to slow down and choose my words and consider the nature of my thoughts and the urgency behind them. It is kind of perfect for how I am trying to change my overall experience and perception.

  20.  #20Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Having a rough few weeks here. I was trying to use Rori’s techniques, but realized that most of the time I was NOT letting go of the outcome, and was trying to get my husband to come close to me. Then I realized what I was doing, and tried to do some things differently.

    Then I foolishly asked him if he had anything planned for Valentines Day on Saturday the 4th. He got angry and thought I should plan. His anger hurt so much that I went to my computer/tv room and stayed there all day, because his anger hurt so much. I felt so disconnected. Then he must have felt like I was stonewalling him and he got angry at me for doing that and told me he was not going to come rescue me if I was going to go downstairs and hide.

    2 days later he was still angry, and I asked him about it and he gave me a whole dump load of anger about how it was my painful childhood that is causing all the problems in the relationship, and I need some help. Essentially, he thinks all the problems in the relationship are because of me.

    So I told him about the things I had been doing and that I was thinking of doing inner bonding. And he was glad to hear it, so I signed up for some group sessions.

    But I was severely depressed, for getting blamed for all the problems, when I thought I was doing all the work myself. Yes, I was doing it wrong, but I was trying.

    So after I talked to him about how sad I was, then he was sweet and snuggly for a few days. He was snuggling with me and being very sweet. Now he still snuggles me, but it feels very empty.

    Then I started talking about what I have been learning in the sessions, and that I need to have more fun in my life, and must be sounding needy again. We had a huge fight yesterday. Then I took a bath, and the over flow was disconnected from the tub, and water leaked through the floor into the ceiling of his TV watching room. We just had it repaired a couple of years ago. Then he just blew a gasket. Cursing and yelling and kicking things.

    I felt like that was the last straw. I figured that was the end, and divorce was the next step. He heard me talking to a friend about that on the phone. Then, he came and talked to me and said that the does not want a divorce, and he does love me but all I can hear is his anger. And when I ask him about it he says Da*mn right I am angry. (After drinking about 3 glasses of wine.) He wants me to quit crying, quit being depressed and figure my sh*it out.

    I feel so hurt that I can’t even focus on doing the inner bonding work. I looked to see if there was a seminar for inner bonding coming up, and there is one this week, but I can’t get time off from work and travel booked – I would have to leave tomorrow. Next one is end of March, and another in Mid April.

    I like moving out so things can calm down, and I can focus on the inner bonding work, and not feel the pings of his anger. But I fear that moving out will put the nail in the coffin of this marriage. Not sure what I should do. I think I want to move out for a week, but part of me knows that is the wrong idea.

    I know I messed up big time. I did not realize what I was doing till it was too late. And his anger is making me feel so depressed. I feel so sad, so hopeless and so angry. This pain is just too much.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Emerson I don’t even think he is putting any pressure on her. Rori says a man wants a good woman in his life. The problem is that some doing want to do what they need to do to keep her so they do all kinds of things not to fully commit. Mocha I have a hard time seeing why you should stay there in that cycle if he is not willing to contribute to your happiness. Seems to me that going around in this cycle is perpetuating your unhappiness. If you don’t want to get off this hampster wheel why should he. Maybe it is you who want to keep him in your life at all costs? Why are you there?

  22.  #22Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Wow FW when I was reading your reply to me and mocha…I had flashbacks of ToxicEx and the hamsterwheel…

    He was tryign to figure out ways to keep me there and make me stay…even though my needs were not met.
    One of the hardest things was leaving that relationship.

    It reallllyyy hurt…but I think it also hurt because I was saying goodbye to bad habits that I had as well….and those habits were precious to me (codependency, smoking, etc. ….)

    Hugs to you ((mochaberri))

  23.  #23Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 9:14 am

    @ WTBH #20
    Sending hugs to you as you go through this. I feel this is not the end for your marriage, it sounds like he does love you but he may have some issues to work on himself such as anger management. You are doing the right thing looking inward and trying to do the best you can for your own growth, and taking care of you. It’s all baby steps and you are doing great….it is hard and I hope things soften between you two….
    Have you tried the waterwheel while you’re at home with him and feeling tense??? I find it shifts my energy a bit…

  24.  #24Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:15 am

    If your man has a really good friend who just happens to be a women, and it drives you crazy and makes you feel jealous and awful, I know just how you feel.

    I remember one important man in my life whose best friends were all women – and they’d all once been his girlfriends, too.

    I can’t forget the evenings I spent sitting on the floor of our apartment, eating dinner off the coffee table in the middle of the room, surrounded by seven of his ex-girlfriends, one of which I knew he still had feelings for but I somehow accepted it because she was gay.

    I remember NEW women friends showing up in his life all the time, and I remember how hard I worked to turn each one of them into MY friends, even if I had to push my way into a dinner that was supposed to be just between “the two of them.”

    It always had something to do with “work,” and it was always “just friends,” but they got better gifts on their birthdays than I did, they got more attention than I did, and they got better conversations with him.

    It’s no wonder that relationship finally didn’t work out – but it wasn’t because of those women.

    It had nothing to do with them.

    They really were just friends – and the fact that he seemed to care for them more than he cared for me had nothing to do with them, either.

    The problem was that I was unable to be with that man in a deep, connected way.

    Not only could I not express my feelings, I couldn’t even find them.

    If you asked me then what I was feeling, I’d look at you, puzzled.

    It took me a while to turn all that around, but with the techniques and Tools I developed to help myself and my clients, you can do it so much faster and easier than I did.

    Here’s a letter from Kathy, who’s stuck in a push-pull stalemate with her husband over is “friendship” with another woman:

    “Dear Rori, I’m having trouble trying to understand my husband. He’s distant with me…He has a lady friend at work, which I don’t like because whenever she has problems she calls him and my husband tries to be there for her. I keep telling him ‘she has a husband why does she have to tell you her problems?’. We are having problems because of her. I try to understand but my feelings and anger and hurt gets in the way… also trust. My husband wants to be family friends with this woman and I don’t want that – he just doesn’t understand me.

    He calls her everyday even if they see each other at work. He doesn’t give me as much attention as he does her. He also told me he doesn’t love me or have feelings for me.

    Ever since she has entered our life it’s been problems. What do you think I should do? I’m very hurt and confused I want him back to feeling the way he used to. Thanks Emily”

    ***I just want to wrap my arms around Emily and hug her – and I also want to shake her.

    I know you can see that everything she’s thinking about this situation, and everything she’s doing and saying is just making it worse – and yet I know that when you’re right in the middle of something that feels so awful – you don’t know what else to do.

    Let’s pull apart what’s happening here, and why what Emily’s doing is not working.

    1. Emily’s husband has lost his “feelings” for her.

    2. He’s met a woman at work who interests him enough to want to talk to her every day, even after spending the whole day at work with her.

    3. Because he feels bad, and doesn’t want to end the marriage, he wants to keep this woman in his life with Emily’s blessing – so he’s trying to get Emily to accept her as “Okay” – he wants to make her a “family friend.”

    4. Emily’s understandably upset…but…

    5. She’s focused on this Other Woman – when she should be focused on HERSELF.

    Bottom line, the problem is not this woman, it’s in Emily’s inability to attract her husband to her in a deep, emotional, intimate and cheat- proof way.

    So – how does she turn all this around fast?

    First, Emily needs to understand that this is about her and her relationship with her husband, and take charge again of herself instead of complaining about this woman.

    Next, she needs to stop feeling jealous and start looking at the day-to-day life she has with her husband.

    She needs to start seeing when and how he lost romantic interest in her, and then make some changes to get it back.

    I’m not saying her husband’s blameless – but you can’t make a man feel something he doesn’t feel by TELLING him to.

    You can’t ORDER him to love you.

    If he’s behaving in an intolerable way, and you don’t want to make the changes that need to be made to save the marriage, then you can leave. But you can’t push a man into Romance. You have to INVITE him.

    And you have to invite him to romance you even if you’re feeling sad, angry, resentful, and everything else Emily must be feeling right now. Sound impossible?

    It’s not. It just takes some new skills.

    So how can Emily stop pushing him away, complaining and telling him what to do about this woman?

    1. First – she can STOP talking about her at all.

    That’s right. Not one mention. Not one complaint. Not one question.

    If her husband should bring her up – such as “Let’s have her over for dinner, okay?” – Emily has to say what she feels and what she DOESN’T want in this situation.

    That could look like: “I feel uncomfortable having her over. I feel jealous of her, and angry with you about her, and I don’t like feeling that, so I don’t want her in our house.”

    And then she stands there for a moment and listens to what he has to say.

    If he tries to convince her, she just sticks to the same words: “I feel uncomfortable and I don’t want to i nvite her over…” And then she can walk away from the conversation.

    Or, she can go with “Sure.” And let her come over so she can see for herself.

    2. Next – she needs to use all my Tools to start fresh in her marriage. (Reconnect Your Relationship is perfect for this – it will help her “Change Everything” – her “vibe,” the way her husband relates to her – everything.

    3. This is all about changing her “energy” from being “combative” and “challenging” with her husband because she feels so mushy and weak on the inside, to feeling so strong inside that she can be a soft, alluring, magnetic woman on the outside.

    This is where Emily needs to get a handle on her own emotions. If you’ve read any of these letters, you know I’m not about “hiding” your emotions, or “changing” them, or “distracting yourself” from even your most unpleasant feelings – instead, Emily has to dive in and become AWARE of how her feelings are hurting her and her marriage.

    And in order to become aware of your true feelings, you have to feel them.

    And once you can feel them, in order to create true intimacy with a man, you have to be able to EXPRESS your feelings with him in a way that doesn’t push him away – as Emily is doing by attacking him, trying to get him to act differently – trying to get him to LOVE her.

    Expressing your feelings in an authentic way not only let’s a man see who you are and get close to you because of your vulnerability – it allows him to feel SAFE with you.

    For most of us, this kind of instruction sounds like a direction to “have a serious talk about the relationship.”

    But that’s NOT what works.

    Later on, Emily might be able to say “I feel bad about our marriage. It would feel so good to be close to you again…” But that’s WAY later.

    NOW – Emily needs to say things like “This feels so fun,” whenever there’s a moment of fun between them.

    Emily needs to get into her own sexuality and sensuality and feel happy when she’s around him by finding things in her life that she can be happy about.

    She has to take her focus off of him and find a way to experience happy moments for herself.

    And then, she can share them with him – like, “It felt so good to take a walk just now. I could feel the breeze on my face and the air felt so clean…”

    I know Emily can turn this around.

    Love, Rori

  25.  #25Liz on February 20, 2012 at 9:19 am

    I have grocerCD, 33CD and 55CD and 57CD who all want to meet me and i don’t want to meet them and i want to melt in accountantCD’s arms….i thought CDing would help me forget him, but it makes the longing worse….especially since now he is doing my taxes and i will hear from him soon…
    i am so frustrated with this block in me, to receiving love from men and holding out for a man who is loving in very brief spurts and noncomittal….i want to heal this….

    aurora girl, did you see my post a week ago thanking you for posting that rap song? i love it! i really had a great intro to my nutrition class…on the first day i played that song and asked them to tell me what did it have to do with nutrition? the i get a good feeling song….
    thanks, i felt like i was able to connect with them in a kind of hip way….except lol i pronounced his name florida like the state….instead of fla ida….

    i am definitely spamming this am….it feels so uncomfortable to have men after me….is that it? but i want to melt into a man and feel safe….

  26.  #26Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:21 am

    WTBH I posted that eletter because I believe there is something in there that might help you. He is expressing his anger which is good however it would be great if you could find a way to tell him you want to hear him but you don’t want to feel attacked. I believe you also have to find a way to share other feelings in your life that have nothing to do with the relationship. I wouldn’t even share about the innerbonding or any other inner work I am doing on myself. Any change in behavior that you do he will experience it without you saying anything about the work. Finding something to shift your focus to something that makes you feel happy and good might be something you could explore now and practice bringing to memory in these moments. Remember it is practice so it does not have to be perfect. However focussing on his angry words/actions and your low feelings as a result will not lift you up out of this place. You have to choose to change something.

  27.  #27Liz on February 20, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Thanks for posting the names of your favorite practioners…and the tip about interstitial cystitis….

    Aurora Girl,
    all of these practioners have everything to do with relationship, because they help us get in better relationship with ourselves…body, mind and spirit, so we can be more in present time….and acting from the present moment instead of reacting from triggers

  28.  #28Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Liz it is my belief that you are the one building the block. Sorry but reading your post and the comment about accountant I felt like puking. What has he done or offered to you to deserve such devotion?

  29.  #29Liz on February 20, 2012 at 9:26 am


    It sounds like your hubby loves you.

    I like that FW posted the newsletter to you.

    There is alot of joy behind the hurt inside you.
    I know you will get there.


  30.  #30Liz on February 20, 2012 at 9:34 am

    yeah, sorry to make you feel like puking.
    he has not done anything to make me feel devotion….and i know it is my block….
    i guess i should ask myself what is it i am gaining?
    maybe it is my fear of intimacy….oh i think i am going to do an age recession and see where this block is at what age….
    fw, thanks for responding and giving me a good reality dose…..
    now i feel courage to do the inner work, because i feel scared about what i will find….but i know i am an adult and i can handle what emotions come up…
    thanks 🙂

  31.  #31Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Thank you FW and Liz –

    I did see that letter and found kernels of info in it that resonated for me. I am trying to plan more fun things with friends. Is it wrong if I have something fun planned most nights of the week? Or will that make him more angry? That might almost be like moving out. We usually have dinner together. So would I be causing more trouble if I left him to eat alone?

    I want to find the joy that is within me, but all I feel is pain and wanting to escape.

  32.  #32Liz on February 20, 2012 at 9:38 am

    okay, WTBH, i dont feel good either now, but i am going to go do it, i am going to see what it is about and that will help me bond to myself more deeply and be more present….
    we could do it togehter thru cyberspace….breathe deep and get quiet and meet our inner pain….and love it….and then we will feel better…..
    hope you will join me

  33.  #33Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:41 am

    The difference between “inspiring” a man and “convincing” him is an important one. When you inspire, you are doing things to feel better about YOURSELF, and you’re committing yourself to understanding your man and nurturing your relationship.

    When you convince, you only TALK or do things to manipulate a man into feeling a certain way. For example, like when you would have “emotionally charged conversations in the evening” with him. You wanted him to know how you were feeling, and you wanted him to hear you.

    But you quickly realized that no man is going to feel warm and fuzzy about you because you’re telling him how unhappy he makes you.

    Here’s the deal.

    The #1 truth about men in relationships is that they want to make their woman happy. He wants to FEEL that it’s easy to please you, and that you can feel good about yourself without much “work” on his part.

    That’s right. He wants to be with a woman who is a genuinely happy person, with or without him.

    Perhaps when your husband told you that the woman in China made him happy, what he was really saying was that he felt it was easy to make HER happy.

    So the question now is, what can you do to get back to the content, joyful woman you used to be? What else can you do besides what you’ve already started doing? (Which, by the way, you’re doing some great stuff with therapy, exercise and taking art classes.)

    How can you be happy again, with or without him?

    The best thing you can do right now is to work on being the best person you can be, inside and out, so that YOU feel good again, regardless of what happens in the end with your relationship.

    That’s why I’m going to do my best to give you the answers you’re looking for.

    From what I read of your letter, I can tell that you’re already on the right track.

    You may not agree. That’s why you wrote.

    It may feel like things are spiraling downward and change isn’t happening fast enough.

    But believe me, you’re already headed in a good direction.

    Here’s what I see in your letter that tells me that you’ve started turning things around.

    1. You say that you’ve stopped doing the things you know weren’t working, including having emotionally-charged conversations and fighting instead of COMMUNICATING and building UNDERSTANDING. This is a crucial step.

    2. You realize that you need to take the focus off your RELATIONSHIP and what to do to make your man “happy” and instead started to focus more on YOURSELF and working to create your best self.

    Right on.


    For example, you probably have developed a “story” around your relationship.

    These are things you tell yourself about you and your husband, over and over, without even realizing you’re doing it.

    An example of this would be where you wrote that you’ve always been “attentive, loving and faithful” to him.

    You have formed a story about who YOU are in the relationship, and how that should be enough to sustain your marriage and keep you and your husband connected.

    But you also wrote that you failed to come through when he asked you to take care of the accounting, and that he was “resentful.”

    There seems to be a disconnect here between what you THINK your husband wants from the relationship and what he actually NEEDS.

    I can imagine that there’s a lot more here that needs to be unpacked, and I can help you do that.

    But first and foremost, the only way for you to find out the truth of what you and your man need from the relationship is to first LET GO of your story.

    That’s why recognizing and letting go of your “story” is such an important step to transforming your relationship.


  34.  #34Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:45 am

    WTBH I believe keeping the lines of communication open is important. Sharing how you are feeling is important. Also changing what you are doing is important. Maybe try communicating with him about what you will be doing to make yourself happy will teach you how he will respond to your changes. Don’t expect him to like it initially. I am not convinced that you should even be thinking right or wrong either. You obviously need to do something that makes you feel genuinely happy so you can be happy when you are around him.

  35.  #35Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 9:46 am


    when I read your post I felt sad ……it takes two and focusing on yourself as the “problem” sure doesn’t respect the two-ness. He does sound like he has to deal with his anger better. I wonder if experienced growing up with a mom who was depressed or emotionally unavailable too……doesn’t know what to do with low emotions or how to support you except to get mad……

    I hope you feel the strength of the women on the blog to stay strong and find your way through …..


  36.  #36Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Liz I felt worried for a minute that I would trigger your anger towards me. Thanks for taking the comment positively. I feel that way towards myself sometimes to when I even think of leaning forward towards a man who has been neglecting me. I wonder if they feel the same way at times when they are aware of what they are doing yet still we try to convince them that they need to do differently? It seems for the most part they are so committed to having fun and enjoying their lives that I imagine it might be stunning to them to deal with me when I am so committed to beating up myself.

  37.  #37Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 9:50 am

    25 Liz
    yes indeed I did see your thank you and I thought I posted back to it….but in any case….I love it too and glad it resonates with you and your class…..I watch it to motivate me, I have it on my play list and I play it in the morning on my way to work too when I need a pick me up….totally crank it up! Somehow music reaches me in ways words can’t…….yay!

  38.  #38Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 9:51 am

    I felt inspired by Turquoise and LiliBee around decluttering and cleaning so I did some myself. Now I am feeling so relaxed and energized in my space I am looking for more areas to declutter so I can allow more of the energy in the Universe to flow through.

  39.  #39Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 10:08 am

    @ FW #15 and 16

    I agree with you that he uses guilt trips to manipulate me and I allow and accept it. And yes I do feel that his behavior will not change regarding another mistake. I don’t feel as if I can talk to him like a true friend because one the lines are blurred with having a committed relationship – he finds fault in anything I say or do. For example when I was driving and we were having the conversation I missed my turn and he got upset saying to me this is why I don’t like having this conversation because you get all erratic and start doing crazy things. He yelled when I was walking out the theater – saying what’s wrong with you you’re acting crazy what are you mad about are youtrying to leave me – I just needed to get out and away form him for a second to calm my nerves. I brought up the fact that he has done the same thing and he said he did it because I was acting crazy. I feel this man will never take responsibilty when it comes to me because he uses my mistake as his shield.

  40.  #40Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 10:11 am

    @ Emerson #17 – Thank you for the compliment on my name – it makes me feel gushy and delightful.

    I never thought about it as you mentioned – him putting pressure on me to look out for his feelings but I see your point and it is very possible. I did tell him that I need to stop worrying about what he thinks and feels and do what’s best for me.

  41.  #41Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 10:13 am

    I asked him what his plans were and he said that he had not plans for us – his plan was ultimately my plan – does that make sense to anyone? If my plan is to get back together how is that his plan? I want to call and ask him what he thinks about that.

  42.  #42Mochaberri on February 20, 2012 at 10:18 am

    @ FW – I looked up the word friend and this is what I came across:

    a : one attached to another by affection or esteem b : acquaintance
    2a : one that is not hostile b : one that is of the same nation, party, or group
    3: one that favors or promotes something (as a charity)
    4: a favored companion

    I believe that we are attached to one another by affection; acquainted and we are favored companions. However the “not hostile” part does not apply to us

  43.  #43Liz on February 20, 2012 at 10:18 am

    No, i did not feel angry because you said how you felt when you read my post, so it was not about me. But i did feel sad when i read it because of what this situation is triggering for me. But i would not expect you to know that about me and what my father did to me, so you were pretty much just being in the present, which i appreciate. But my age regression exercise got me in touch with my 10 year old little Lizzy who had no choice in saying yes or no to sexual attention from her father. So now i feel really sad, but much more settled and i think i can concentrate on what i have to do for the day, which is prepare for my client in two hours. so thanks for hanging with me…your words compelled me to greater self understanding, just by you being authentic…

    Could you explain better what you meant by post 36? I feel confused…the part about beating yourself up and the men…..

  44.  #44Liz on February 20, 2012 at 10:30 am

    aurora girl,
    i was MIA from the blog last week….so thanks for posting…
    i am listening to it now and it makes me want to RUN!!!!!

  45.  #45Daria on February 20, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Yay Rori!

    Some of my secrets are:

    The ROLFing like stretches and how todo them at

    The exercises and skin brushing … And the ennormois nutrition and milions if threads of alternative healing information – nutrition has threads of people following and tracking their experiences with every kind of diet imaginable – in the forums at

    The 7 levels of wealth program with Margaret Lynch

    For mindful and respectful interaction with Anyone and info for creating emotionally healthy family – Sandra Dodd at

    Natural birth and lotus birth for having a natural home birth even spiritial orgasmic birth – not birth trauma: many sources

    A wonderful EFT practitioner in Portugal : Barbara Solswig who I can no longer get in touch with since the end of 2010

    Herbal healing and nutrition and plant spirituality AND female divinity- Susum Weed :

    Female pleasure empowerment fun and freedom : Mama

    Hair brushing and massage for growth and how to cut and when for growth and when to remove hair according to lunar calendar :

    How money is not real and using LOA to attract what you really want instead (a bit of a hard read as the author has lots of unhealed limiting beliefs and expresses anger as sarcasm) : Mary croft

    Magical worlds and how to make travel to my own and use it in everydaylife : Sylvia hartmann project sanctuary, genius symbols

    And we know my favoritefor success in love and loving myself : Rori Raye

  46.  #46Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 10:42 am

    FW- Thanks for the Chris Carter post. And yes, that is EXACTLY what I was doing wrong.

    Liz – Yes, it takes two, and right now he has his finger pointed straight at me (and only me) as the one who has the problem. When I tell him how hard it is for me when he expresses his anger, he doesn’t care. In fact, he says he is not angry but only frustrated. Whatever. That is what makes me angry and part of what is making me feel depressed and like giving up on this.

    His mom is one of the sweetest people I know. It is his dad that makes him angry. His dad is super critical. He shuts down when his dad is around.

    I think I am going to have to find a way to be happy, and stay living with him. I am planning some fun stuff with friends. And when I am home I will:
    Stop talking about the relationship period.
    Stop talking or even noticing what he is or isn’t doing. I will not say anything about what he is doing or express discontent about anything going on between us that isn’t working, because so far all I have done successfully is convince him that he cannot make me happy.
    Just focus on me. And doing stuff I like. And get out of the house more.
    And when he is angry, not sure what I will do. Not sure how to leave the room without it sounding like I am complaining and blaming him. Maybe I will just listen and say “I see” or something mundane like that.

    Thanks for your offer to support each other in the inner journey Liz. I will take you up on that offer.

    I wish I had known how what I was doing was so counter productive. I thought I was expressing my feelings and it was a good thing. But it was just convincing. Sigh. Will have to forgive myself. And forgive him for reacting to it.

  47.  #47CurvySiren10 on February 20, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Emerson, in regards to your work situation…I am reading the book “Who Moved My Cheese?” right now (Spencer Johnson) and I think you might gain a lot of insight from it. You can apply it to anything in life, but with what you’re going through in your professional life right now, I think you’d really find a lot of wisdom/guidance/insight there!

  48.  #48Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 10:45 am

    I feel a huge need to declutter too. My mind and my work space are full of crap I have been hanging on to for too long. Time to let some of the crap go.

  49.  #49VW on February 20, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Thank you Rori for sharing this valuable resources…

    warm hugs,

  50.  #50Liz on February 20, 2012 at 10:51 am

    hey everyone,
    I am signing off now, I got the things done for my client and now i am off to go for a walk/run to clear my head…
    i am SO grateful for this blog….
    have a fantastic day…

  51.  #51CurvySiren10 on February 20, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Liz, I don’t think it’s necessarily “devotion” you are giving or feeling. I totally understand how cding can really mess with us when we have strong feelings for someone. It’s irrelevant whether or not they “deserve” those feelings. They are there and they are real. Cding has done that to me too. Left me feeling empty and longing even MORE for the one I’m trying to keep my vibe off of.

    So I suggest sinking in to those feelings. Recognizing them and loving them. And working on what it is within YOU that causes them.

    And just as an fyi, I am currently very much with the man I was cding to “forget”. It’s a process. It’s messy. But I do think it works once we can truly give ourselves that space. It’s really NOT about the other men. It’s always about US and the therapy it provides.

  52.  #52CurvySiren10 on February 20, 2012 at 10:58 am

    WTBH, I agree that your issues will never be resolved until/if BOTH of you can discuss them openly and without blame. Exposing the resentment you both have and working TOGETHER to resolve the issue is the only solution. Traditional conflict resolution always requires a winner and a loser. The key is that both of you work together against the real “enemy” which is the issue itself. As long as you’re on different “sides”, it will continue to be putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. Just a brief, stopgap but never resolving anything.

  53.  #53Liz on February 20, 2012 at 11:12 am

    thanks curvysiren

    sinking into those feelings, i have been letting myself just shake and feel….it feels empowering, maybe it is about me learning to feel safe with these feelings, so when i do find someone to share them with, i won’t shut down….and i know it has to do with healing my past….

    thanks for the empathy about cding….i do think it has taught me invaluable lessons even though i have not felt like kissing any of them, it has shown me that i am desirable, sexy, fun and that men really do want me and it has shown me how hard it is for me to have boundaries….

    thanks 🙂
    curvy siren….that sounds absolutely voluptuous and sexy
    i should come up with a siren name, but last time i did that it went into moderation….
    what do you all think of the name Brook? or Waterfall? it might be fun to be that for awhile instead of just liz….i just wouldn’t want everyone to not know it was me talking…

  54.  #54Daria on February 20, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Thank you Starla for that meditation, I was really feelin it

  55.  #55Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 11:23 am

    CurvySiren – I agree. It takes two. But I can’t make him get in the game. He refuses. That is what I was trying to get him to do.

    Oddly, after the valentines day fight, I was so depressed and hopeless, and sleeping in the guest room. I had asked god for a sign that day, if I should move out, because I really, really wanted to. I asked for it in a dream, and the dreams I kept having were about divorce or splitting up. But in real life, on the evening that I asked for a sign, my husband was actually sweet and loving to me. It is like he felt the vibe of me giving up control of him, and he came back. And he stayed that way for a few days.

    I am helpless over trying to get him to change. There is nothing I can do to get him change him. All I can do is focus on me and find ways to make myself happy.

  56.  #56Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Emerson – 23 –

    I have been trying the InnerBonding method instead of the waterwheel, but perhaps the waterwheel would be easier/faster when I am feeling pain. Will try that.


  57.  #57Dominique on February 20, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Liz – If you want to take on a siren name, do it. It will only remain in moderation as long as RR takes to get to it to release it. And just announce to everyone here that this is your new name.

    And you can always copy and paste posts with Liz until the new name comes out of moderation.


  58.  #58Jilly on February 20, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    oh..I see..I wondered where everybody went lol

  59.  #59Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    54 WTBH

    It can also be that you both are in an “abuse” cycle…where things heat up…there is a blow up….he gets mad….you get quiet….he senses the relationship slipping so there is remorse and then a honeymoon stage…and then it starts all over again…..any time the focus of the relationship issues remain spotlighted on one person (you)….there is a power imbalance and yes you can be left feeling helpless…….and to blame……

    it sounds like your dreams are speaking some truth….that the state of your relationship does need to crumble, dismantle, fall away in some way….as it is not working and you are not happy……….that it needs to morph into something different…….only time can tell what that is……

    they say only one of you has to be in “right mind” for anything to move forward…..

    what would it take for you to be in your “right mind”……clear the fog, settle the dust…..hear your inner voice that’s calling to you….

    sending you love and light

  60.  #60Jilly on February 20, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    FW..yes yes thank you…it may have sounded like I wasn’t melting…but I was already melting when we were talking…and then he was melting and then we were both soft and gushy all over lol

    and even right now at home I feel all melty, soft, open, warm and inviting…to life

    Also I just want to share a little more…

    on the way home from his family’s Rugby man opened up and shared that his family never shared emotions so sometimes it may not seem like he is feeling, or that there is a brick wall or he is too thick…but that’s not the case…he just doesn’t know how to express it very well

    it felt great to hear him open up this way…

    I feel excited? wonderful? that by me being open, expressive and vulnerable that he felt SAFE to open up…awww….

    FW…thanks again for reminding me…I want to stay here in these warm soft juicy feelings….

    I am the goddess of light and love that allows others to see by the light that shines on all that is beautiful…

    that’s my goddess statement from Modern Siren

    I kind of picture myself as a lighthouse of love…I’m just being me… and my light radiates out into the world

  61.  #61Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    RE 39 Mochaberri – OMG this post is very telling. I feel myself shaking just at the thought of being in the presence of that kind of criticism.

  62.  #62Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Liz the way I see it is that many men want to enjoy life and have fun. When we are not doing that but pining over them and giving up on our dreams I believe that they experience that as us beating up on ourselves.

  63.  #63Luzydel on February 20, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    I am experiencing…

    My son spent this whole weekend with me; my car was in the shop, so I asked My son’s father to help me pick it up today. I have no romantics feelings for him whatsoever, we are in good terms and sometimes I feel he take cares of me in some ways. We just didn’t work out. Anyway; My son left with his dad until tomorrow when I pick him up. When they left I felt it; the silence, the quiet house and I got nostalgic; I do enjoy my solo times, but I am realizing that I enjoy people’s company also…I felt lonely.

    That is why I need to go out more and participate in different activities, to enjoy people’s company. Tat is why online dating can be so addicting sometimes, because it gives people a false sense of companionship. Well today I am staying home; maybe go out to the neighborhood to walk the dog. But I have to start going out more and doing things.

  64.  #64Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Mochaberri and WTBH….

    I hear sooooooooooo many similarities in the dynamics you are experiencing with someone…

    want to send light and love so you see you don’t deserve that EVER from anyone…..


  65.  #65Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    What do I do if he tells me a lot about himself but doesn’t ask questions about me? I did ask if he wanted to know things about me and he always said yes of course, but sometimes I feel a shift that I’d like to change. Once he even told me almost out of the blue that he learns about me not only from what I tell him, but his own observations. I understand it must be true, but still it doesn’t feel right if our conversations are a lot about him and less about me.

  66.  #66Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Aurora Girl,

    RE: #8 – “Rori, why is a blog on relationships giving advice and referrals to chiropractic, physiotherapy, medical practitioners?”

    Ever notice how much Rori refers to feeling your emotions in your body? It is profoundly amazing how much the body is linked to emotions. It doesn’t work to separate the components of the human being. They are all part of each other: body, emotions, mind, psyche, spirit.

    I can’t speak for Rori, but I can tell you that I have been deeply helped by her tools, and visualizing things in and around my body. A lot of this is broken down in Modern Siren, which was life-changing for me.

  67.  #67Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Aurora –
    Yes, I hear you. Very similar, sadly.

    If I were dating him, I would probably just break up with him. But I am married, so it is harder to just call it quits.

    And he does do nice things for me which I should be more grateful for. He does a lot more around the house than most husbands would do, and he keeps reminding me of that. But his anger and blame is hurtful. But I do need to keep in mind how I was with him previously, so I have a part in this too.

    It is so hard. Wish I could go back in time and change things.

  68.  #68Dominique on February 20, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Mochaberri – Next time he yells at you for missing an exit or your turn, tell him what K and I say to each other when this happens, “I’m having an adventure. it would feel so good if you joined me.”

    (We don’t have to say the last part since it’s already a given that we’re adventuring.)

    Maybe this will lighten him up, for it really is such a silly thing to get upset over, and you can’t take it back anyway. Might as well relax and enjoy, be open to surprises.


  69.  #69Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    66 WTBH

    Married or not……

    You and only you hold the keys to your future my dear.


  70.  #70Senior Lady Vibe on February 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    @8: Aurora Girl says:
    “…Rori, why is a blog on relationships giving advice and referrals to chiropractic, physiotherapy, medical practitioners?…”

    I’m so far behind on posts… I don’t know what Rori’s response is… but…

    I say our most precious relationships are with ourselves, loving ourselves, taking care of ourselves, developing ourselves and having fun with ourselves.

    I often post here for the whole person, others do too: career, family, health-beauty-physical fitness, art and literature… lipstick… shoes… flippy skirts…

    I’m a long time personal growth student and practioner but “Life is short”; I like to post happy things. I like to share resourcess I hope will be informative and/or entertaining and inspiring.

    I’m open to exploring many things. I appreciate and learn from the experiences and journeys of other women on the blog.


  71.  #71Wants To Be Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Aurora – Yep, and I am trying Inner Bonding. I think the universe is telling me something and I am trying to figure out what the next step is. I do need to break free of some old patterns.

  72.  #72Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    69 SLV

    “I don’t know what Rori’s response is…”

    Neither do I. She has not responded.


  73.  #73sensual on February 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    i just wanted to share: ran into FWB on Saturday and he totally pulled a Rori on me! and it felt just soooo amazing to experience from the other side. He was standing in front of me opening up about his feelings, how his career is finally rolling and how he feels so scared and overwhelmed and afraid of failure and how last week one day he just spent the whole day depressed feeling what he was feeling. I advised how just to go with the flow and take the opportunities and try not to think and analyze so much and he said no, he just needed to feel everything he was feeling right down to it’s core to suck it all in and just be depressed for a day and just feel it down to the ground and let the feeling engulf him totally so that he could let it all out…………….and as he stood there melting in front of me talking about his deep feelings, all i wanted to do was to reach forward and give him the biggest hug. but i didn’t, i stopped myself because I AM THE GIRL! I listened attentively but i didn’t want him to out girl me so i didn’t reach forward. but wow I so wanted to express myself and my feelings like that to him, but this time I just couldn’t get the words out, and anyway it was his turn……….but wow, what an enlightening thing to experience and how it made me feel standing in front of him……geez i’m still thinking about it on Monday!

  74.  #74mali on February 20, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    @5- Starla- Thankyou for your support <3 It felt good being honest and clear about my boundaries!

    @ Emerson- 6:

    Thankyou so much for your response… can I say btw, that you sound so soft in your posts! Brava to you, and I felt supported reading your input 🙂

    For me, I simply need a part time job whilst at uni- so long as the conditions are okay and I'm happy, the purpose or sense of fulfilment isn't too much of an issue… I understand why he didn't offer the job outright, however I felt sad and scared at the prospect of not being secure financially… but it *could* mean that something bigger and better is waiting for me =)

    As for you, wow! I think you may have outgrown this business, and you need to look upwards and outwards! <3

  75.  #75Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    70 WTBH

    “I think the universe is telling me something and I am trying to figure out what the next step is. I do need to break free of some old patterns.”

    I hope you can hear the universe loud and clear…in whatever way it speaks to you, however often it will reach to you to be heard….that you can trust it and follow it….

    This was my portal out of a very bad marriage in 2002, with 3 little children in tow….I was never so frightened in my life, never felt so vulnerable… was the only thing I could trust and I had to learn how to hear it, trust it….that it was trying to lead me out of a very toxic situation…..I had to learn to hear my intuition….I had to learn to follow it even when my ego resisted….even when the logic of the situation made no sense….it taught me that logic is over rated.

    The universe felt like it had an intelligence all it’s own and that it loved me and it never let me down.

    Now I trust it more than ever and it speaks to me more than ever…in many ways……

    and yes I am well aware of the mind body connection and how it speaks through that language

    it helps me ask good questions…it helps me keep my awareness open……it supports everything that’s good for me and my children….it sends me information even when I think I’m not ready for it… seems to trust I’ll know what to do with it.

    WTBH I hope your next step comes even if in a whisper…..and the next one…..and the next one…..


  76.  #76Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    I miss Simply Shannon and Lucy on the blog.

  77.  #77Ella on February 20, 2012 at 3:13 pm


    My arms feel heavy tonight.

    I feel surrendery.

  78.  #78Liz on February 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    What is the sireny thing to do if a CD tells you that he has a cold and irritation in his throat when he swallows? My old pattern would be to jump in and fix and give advice on what herbs to take and so i am just wondering what is a compassionate response that keeps me in my feminine and allows him the space he needs to feel better in his own way?

  79.  #79Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Hi Sirens…

    I had an horrible day…

    It’s not related to men or relationships…

    I just had some very disturbing news.

    I feel sand and stressed and traumatised and chocked and I want to hug all the sad people in the world and beg them to feel happy and want to live… 🙁

  80.  #80Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    I feel speechless and I want to write but I just don’t know what to say…

  81.  #81Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    And I feel scared for the people I love, my mom, my dad, my friends…

    I don’t want them to act happy but be so empty and sad inside… I feel so afraid. I don’t want people I love to die…

  82.  #82Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    I feel teary and I feel selfish to feel teary.

  83.  #83Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Oh sirens, I had a CRAPPY day. My girls were home from school and I was at work, they were fighting, I texted my ex and asked him to handle it. I called a few min. later when I got a break and he didn’t answer, he also hadn’t responded to my text, so I called the girls. He was on with one while I was on with the other and got really mad at me that I’d asked him to handle it and then interrupted. He swore at me, and told me to hang up now. I replied that I already had and to not swear at me.

    Then he texts and asks for a pizza place phone number, he wants to order them pizza. I didn’t have the number but gave him the name and zip code. I told him that I had called because I hadn’t gotten a reply from him, only had a few min. and wanted to check on them.

    He calls me twice because the pizza place isn’t answering (remember I am at work here) and texts me to answer my phone. I had to go outside to talk to him and he’s giving me a hard time and blaming me that the pizza place isn’t answering and I need to go home and make them lunch! He kept saying, you are only 10 min. away, you get a lunch break, don’t tell me you dont!

    I calmly said that I was not going home to make them something, as they do that every day after school. I missed two days of work last week when we were all sick, and I had a lot to catch up on. I only get a half hour, and if it was an emergency, I’d go, but not just to make them a PB&J. We get off the phone and he texts me, I hate that you put me in these situations.

    And there you go, that is the reminder of how things were when we were married. ME always feeling blamed. It’s my fault girls were fighting, how could I not know the pizza place would be closed, somehow it’s my fault that we live in a rural area where there aren’t that many restaurants anyways, and of course they should be open and deliver during the day! (he’s saying these things to me) I was starting to get upset at that point and said, Maybe the cook got sick, maybe they are closed for the holiday, I don’t know, but it’s not my fault!! (I jumped around a little here, we only spoke once) the text about me putting him in the situation came later.

    I replied back that I was sorry, wouldn’t ask for his help. That there was plenty of food in the house and I could bring pizza home for dinner.

    He replies back letting me know what time the pizza would be delivered.

    I thought a lot about it all day, feeling teary eyed at being yelled at, expected to leave work to handle something so minor at lunch, and just disrespected.

    I started writing out a script and was going to wait to run it past here to send, but was really feeling upset, this was about 2 hours after it all happened, so I this is what I sent.

    My feelings are really hurt by being sworn at and spoken to so harshly. I have felt on the verge of tears off and on all day, which is an awful feeling at work. Then to be told I put you in the situation, feels even more confusing. I want to be able to ask for help with parenting issues, but now I feel shut down. I can’t always do this all by myself, and I sincerely wish we canbe a team, because many more years to go. I’m sorry I stress and upset you. I don’t want that. If you know how e can do better, please tell me. I hate feeling like this. What do you think. Please don’t yell again.

    To which, I’ve gotten no response, in the past 3 hours.

    I’m not as upset as I was earlier, I gave my feeling message. I’m aware that the cycle is he gets upset at not being able to fix something, his temper flares, he lashes out at me, I get triggered and feel blamed, and respond to those feelings. Before I would have argued back more. I did text that I wouldnt ask for help. But there would have been more.

    I don’t know how to stop this because I can’t control what upsets him and then causes him to lash out at me. The lashing out, is what triggers me though, so… that is the part I can heal. Do I just use the stopsign tool there and say,

    “Whoa, this feels bad. I don’t want to discuss this right now. I’m at work and need to focus and feel professional. We can talk about this later tonight.”

    What do you think sirens? We haven’t had a fight like this in a really long time, probably since summer. It isn’t awful, end of the world… but I hate that nervous stomach feeling I get when stuff like this happens.

  84.  #84Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    I could control that I give him more time to handle something when I ask him to, and trust that he’ll do that. I could lean back there.

  85.  #85Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm


  86.  #86Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm


  87.  #87Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm


    I don’t know what to tell you 🙁

    I think your feeling message was fine. Lean back and when he’ll have process all that, he’ll probably come and find you and apologize.

    Sorry Siren for not being more helpful.

  88.  #88Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “My girls were home from school and I was at work, they were fighting, I texted my ex and asked him to handle it”

    T it sounds like you gave it your best guess and things kind of spiraled….the girls made their problem your problem….you made the problem your ex’s problem…..then he makes his problem your problem back again……

    I know it’s hard to parent by phone. I have three. If no one’s bleeding or on fire I tell them to go to different parts of the house and find something to do and to wait on standby until they hear from me shortly. That’s not negotiable.

    Then I take a breather and try to figure out what needs to be done. If I think I need help from their dad I can can always ask “if” he can handle it and explain why, and if i have to leave a message or text, I leave it with a qualifier that if I don’t hear from him in 10 minutes that I will try to follow through. Now he often doesn’t come through for me. So I have to trust I’ll handle it in stages……..

    how old are your girls?

  89.  #89Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm


    then , when things are settled I would want to have a conversation with him about how to best handle these parenting situations…..use a lot of FM (if he is capable of handling them and seeing them as useful and not blamy…….(I know my ex doens’t know what to do with them sadly)) and come up with a parenting game plan that respects both parents interest in trying to solve the issue at hand and not get caught up in the stress…….

    the thing is….once they are teenagers….they see the parental divide and it can make things worse…..

    I have used this approach with my children’s father and learned what he is capable of and not capable of….he is not good in crisis…..but he is better at agreeing with me on boundaries and consequences to hand out… least that’s something…….

    what do you think?

  90.  #90Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 4:06 pm


    RE: #82 – I will give you feedback by way of telling you how I would have handled it if I were in the same situation. This is me as if I were Turquoise:

    Oh sirens, I had a CRAPPY day. My girls were home from school and I was at work, they were fighting, I texted my ex and asked him to handle it. I called a few min. later when I got a break and he didn’t answer, he also hadn’t responded to my text, so I called the girls. He was on with one while I was on with the other and got really mad at me that I’d asked him to handle it and then interrupted. He swore at me, and told me to hang up now.

    I said, “That feels really bad to hear!” I hung up on him.

    Then he texts and asks for a pizza place phone number, he wants to order them pizza.

    I thought, “I am not going to be bullied by his anger.”

    So I texted him, “I am not willing to be emotionally abused by someone’s anger and swearing. I choose to not interact with you when I am being yelled at and sworn at. And that is why I hung up, NOT because you told me to.”

    I took a five minute get-away from my desk and sunk to the floor, doing deep breathing in an unused conference room to regain my Siren peace.

    He calls me twice because the pizza place isn’t answering (remember I am at work here) and texts me to answer my phone. I ignored his calls and texts, determined to not be controlled by his emotional abuse.

    He left a couple of nasty messages on my phone, giving me a hard time and blaming me that the pizza place isn’t answering and I need to go home and make them lunch! He kept saying, you are only 10 min. away, you get a lunch break, don’t tell me you dont!

    I deleted the messages and resolved next time he is angry, I won’t listen to his voicemails until I am away from work, since they are so upsetting.

    I missed two days of work last week when we were all sick, and I had a lot to catch up on. I only get a half hour, and if it was an emergency, I’d go, but not just to make them a PB&J.

    He texts me, “I hate that you put me in these situations.” But I didn’t even read it until I got out of work at the end of the day, because by then I had turned my phone off so as to not be abused.

    And there you go, that is the reminder of how things were when we were married. ME always feeling blamed. It’s my fault girls were fighting, how could I not know the pizza place would be closed, somehow it’s my fault that we live in a rural area where there aren’t that many restaurants anyways, and of course they should be open and deliver during the day! (he’s saying these things to me).

    When I got home, I sent him one simple text in response to all his childish tantrums: “I feel horrible. I don’t want to be yelled at and blamed for such trite things.”

  91.  #91Liz on February 20, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    did someone you know die?
    sorry you had a bad day…

  92.  #92Sassy on February 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    I’m sorry you went thru that. Sometimes men get snippy when they can’t fix the problem right then and there and of course they take it out on us!
    You were right to tell how you felt immediately, I am notorious for stuffing and just letting myself take the blame.
    Kudos to you!
    Much love

  93.  #93Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 4:09 pm


    That sounds like a good idea. I knew he was home from work today, and had said he’d call and check on them… which is why I tried to include him in this. I like your suggestion of, if I don’t hear from you in ten min. and you are right, if not bleeding or on fire, it can wait a few min.

    My ex was really patient with them yesterday in a situation, which is why I thought I’d shift it to him. As, I’m not always that patient, and at work… I don’t always have time to deal with them fighting.

    He isn’t really good in a crisis, as he has a quick temper and can get very upset…. but I can be like that too. Which, I am working on.

    I sent a text saying

    I’m sorry I asked you to handle something and then didn’t give you the time to do it. I wasn’t sure you’d called yet, but I could have waited a little to be sure.

    I don’t like how he responded, and that needs work… but I can’t work on him, I can only work on me, so while I’m not taking all the blame or anything, I can see where I went wrong in this and apologize for that.

    I’m letting this go, don’t want to let it ruin my evening. He’ll call or text when he’s ready, and we’ll work through it, discuss some ideas, and go from there.

  94.  #94Liz on February 20, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Hey Turquoise,
    That sounds really stressful, i loved your fm about being at work…
    i know my ex was the same way when my son was really sick and he felt so incompetent and out of his comfort zone that he would lash out at me and i did not know how to handle it back then….
    it is not about you, but it does not feel good all the same.
    I sure hope your family starts feeling better soon.

  95.  #95Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    To our English Sirens

    Check it out….Eileen on Corry is walking through posting a profile on Cupid’s Arrow….wow……she is being so brave….though she’s still hiding it…… will be so interesting to see what happens to her on the show!!!!! and how they do this!

  96.  #96FlowerChild77 on February 20, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    ((((Lizka)))) Talk to us…why are you sad?

    ((((Turquoise)))) I understand why you got upset. You did a really great job of looking at the exchange between you as a witness/observer and seeing what you could change. I didn’t really feel you ‘blaming’ him but I would feel exactly as you did. I get really triggered if someone snaps at me.

    My question is: what doesn’t he understand about “I’M AT WORK”…?

    I’m sure it feels especially bad right when you’re hoping you and he can get along and be a real team <3

    How is he at talking about stuff when you use FM's and lean waaaay back? (Like if you ask when is a good time to talk, etc.)

  97.  #97Ella on February 20, 2012 at 4:15 pm


    MWC and I have been communicating about alcohol.

    I shared how triggered I feel around alcohol and when people I care about drink a lot. And expressed using FMs.

    I was saying really that I don’t feel comfortable around people who drink a lot of alcohol and I don’t want this in my life.

    He said he just wants to be with me and to do normal stuff, he said he has fallen into a bad habit of drinking a lot…

    Anyway waterwheel has been firmly in my direction.

    And usually he is giving all the compliments and I am laying back and soaking them up and lounging luxuriously in it.

    Anyway tonight I decided I wanted to say something back.

    The last few messages went something like this.

    Him: I really miss you. And I really want to spend more time with you and have more fun and treat you how you deserve to be treated. Xxx

    Me: You do treat me very well. I like how you do little things for me, like help me carry stuff… get things for me… that feels good
    And how you listen to me, and are really patient with me, even when I am struggling with stuff, makes me feel got. U r amazing like that. xx

    And then I sent him a thingy on facebook which is a card saying about loving and accepting yourself as otherwise all the rest of us would miss out on wonderful stuff. I said that it could have been written for him.

    This is the most gushy I have ever been with him.

    And then, nothing back from him.

    Until a good half hour later with a goodnight text.

    I have noticed this before with him. He just doesn’t respond well to being on the recieving end…

    I think he is really, really masculine energy.

    He just shuts down when I am the slightest bit in my masc, giving energies.

    I have never seen it evidenced quite so starkly as with him.

  98.  #98Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm


    I was just reading this article about how to recognize a controlling person. I have dealt with controlling, angry people most of my life. It is a trigger I have faced over and over to the point where I can just put up a wall and block their attempted intimidation. That is really what it is all about. He is trying to bully you into doing what he wants you to do.

    When he finds that his bullying doesn’t work anymore, he will stop doing it. Just use your visualizations to stay centered, and refuse to get wrapped up and trapped up in his emotional garbage.

    Ok, here’s the article:


    Those who try to control other people are, simply put, neither nice nor respectful. While a controlling personality belongs to someone who probably has deeper issues, such as codependency, narcissism, sociopathic tendencies or just sheer stubbornness, none of these negative traits should be shouldered by you. Controlling people are selfish at the core, immature at heart and likely to put the brakes on your leading a fulfilling life if you’re in constant close proximity to them.

    In order to spare yourself getting too entangled with a controlling personality, or to awaken yourself to the fact that the controlling person is the one with the problem and not you, here are some tried and tested ways to help you recognize a controlling person and respond accordingly.

    Consider how you feel around the people in your life before all else. Do you have any relationships in which you feel suffocated, bossed around, confused or distressed, or just plain fed up with being told what to do a lot of the time (and feeling guilty that you keep giving in)? Is there someone in your life around whom you feel you have to tiptoe and be super careful to mollify or not anger? Do you know someone who seems to have “buttons” for going off at you at the simplest of things you say or do, often without rhyme or reason? If you feel that any of these situations have a ring of familiarity to them, then you may be dealing with a controlling person. In which case, read on….

    Brenda and all – I had to cut from here – people don’t like it when stuff they write is printed here without their permission, so I’m just sending you to the article itself…Love, Rori)

  99.  #99Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Thanks Brenda, he didn’t swear at me on the phone, that was in a text message and it was the first text I got. I can’t turn my phone off to avoid him, as I have to be available if my girls call me. I also don’t have the option of going anywhere for 5 min. except the bathroom… I could step away and not answer or read his texts or send back one that says, I cannot talk to you right now. I am at work. I’ll check back in with you in 30 min. He also didn’t leave me any voice mails, so I don’t have to delete those.

    I will remind him that when I am at work, that is my focus. I wouldn’t expect him to deal with this while he was at work, which was why I even contacted him at all… since he was home.

    Oh well, I’m going to let this go. Just try to come up with some solutions and ways we can deal better in the future. That feels good to me.

  100.  #100Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    as a side note…..

    sometimes I cannot communicate what I need to say to my children’s dad on the phone because he can be so reactionary. So I have suggested we use email to sort these things out…once the dust has settled… has been a God send….

    There are indeed times when he gets abusive on the phone……still after all this time… saddens me…but when he does I simply say ” I will not have a conversation with you if you are going to be sarcastic (or swear, etc.) If he stops I continue a calm conversation. If he continues I repeat I won’t have the conversation and hang up right there.

    He also gets abusive in email. For example I tried using fms with him and his response was “Oh that’s just rich….you are feeling…..such and such and etc.”…He made fun of them. I realized that FM s don’t work with him.

    I”m glad you can say you can let it go……I agree kudos to you chickie!


  101.  #101Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Liz and FlowerChild

    Yes a friend from my childhood, whom I haven’t talk for many years, gave himself death in a awful way…

    I feel unsure of talking about it. It’s not really blog related…

    I thought I could just share how I feel…

  102.  #102Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Thanks Liz, Sassy and FC…. normally when we fight, which is so rare these days that it threw me, we both lash out, and then afterwards can discuss, apologize and figure out ways to do better. I’ve never tried the when is a good time to talk? So, I will try that next time. He does like to fix a problem, like most men, and gets stressed when it doesn’t have an immediate result.

    I’m going to eat some dinner and help my oldest study for a test, but I’ll be back on later. Thank you for the support!

    I haven’t had a chance to catch up yet, but Lizka, I hope you are ok!!

  103.  #103Ella on February 20, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    I have found an amazing book about alcohol… and stopping drinking.

    It is great and totally different approach to it than most.

    Very much empowering, and that you can give up alocohol easily, and that the addiction is mostly psychological.

    It is a eye opener and totally different and more upbeat approach to the doom and gloom that comes with most recovery type approaches to alcohol.

    Anyway MWC does not read much at all… and I think he also could really benefit from the info in this book.

    He has said HE wants to cut down on drinking, his choice, not my idea.

    Well I wondered about maybe reading some of the book out loud for me and him before bedtime on the nights I stay with him.

    I think that this could actually be a bit of a bonding exercise, as well aS maybe inspiring some good.

    However I am also aware that it is offering my wisdom to my man… and trying to problems solve in some ways.

    And even though for me it is in the spirit of sharing, and it would feel good to me, like cosy, sharing together, plus still getting the info I need.

    Plus it would make me feel safer about his drinking.

    But Sirens I am aware that this is a very masc energy thing to do, not to mention quite Mumsy.

    Am I trying to control outcomes with this? Or more to the point could it come across that way?

    Is it just a bad idea that I should drop and trust that he will find his own useful information, that will be right for him?

    Or is there a way I can ask him about this to see whether he would be open to, and feel comfortable with this?

    I would feel good if a little nervous doing it.

    Any ideas Sirens?

  104.  #104Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 4:30 pm


    If it were me, I’d give it to him. I freely give books to help Ryan with his healing, and he welcomes it and thanks me. It all depends on where the man is at I suppose.

  105.  #105Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 4:35 pm


    I think you missed my point. I realize he didn’t leave voicemails! My point was YOU chose to pick up, even tho you were at work. If you hadn’t picked up, he would have had the option of leaving a voicemail.

    Okay, so don’t turn your phone off. My point is to refuse to talk to a person when they are yelling, blaming, etc.

  106.  #106FlowerChild77 on February 20, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    (((Lizka)))) I’m so sorry to hear about your friend. We’re here for you. I’m sure it’s fine to talk about it here on the blog. Let it out so you can really FEEL it.

  107.  #107Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Thank you FlowerChild…

    I was not a close friend to him. Last time I remember talking to him was when I was 11 years old. Last time I saw him was probably by the end of high school… But he was in my Facebook friends.

    I knew him since I was a kid. Probably 2 or 3 years old. We went to the same kinder garden and elementary school and high school. Our father were friends and we lived on the same street so were playing together when we were young…

    I learned he was dead on Saturday because I saw people writing sad messages on his Facebook wall. So I wrote a small message saying I was thinking of him.

    But this morning my mom called me at work and told me what happened. They found him in a very awful position, they’re not even sure if it’s a m*rder or a su*cide… They think it’s probably a su*cide…

    The guy was a fun guy, always smilling and nice with everyone. Always joking around. The clown type. Everyone said it on his Facebook. And he is from a very big and very tight family. He had a lot of friends I believe… But he was very fat…

    I feel sad to think that people can look strong and happy from the outside but be so sad and destroyed inside. If he k*lled himself that way, he must have been so desperate, it’s terrible…

    I feel so guilty for not always being nice to the people.

    And this is gonna sounds stupid but I feel guilty for being slim, young and cute. I know life is easy for beautiful people and I am sad that big people have all the friends and family in the world but they must suffer from lack of self esteem and commit things like that.

    I also feel sad because I could have be closer to him when I was young. But even though he was part of my everyday life, I was not always nice to him and didn’t REALLY wanted to be his friends. I did not make a lot of efforts to be nice to him and to know him better… If me as a 11 years old little girl was thinking like that, I can imagine how his whole life was…

    I remember in grade 6th, we were in the same school bus. The cool guys were sitting at the back of the bus, and the “normal” guys were sitting in the front… Me and my best friends were sitting in the front with him and his best friends. I remember how these two guys had such big hearts and were so nice to me and my girl friend… But I remember feeling ashamed for not being cool and being sit in the front of the school bus. And one day my girl friend “upgraded” to the cool area of the bus, and I stayed in the front with them… I was so embarrassed to have nobody but them to hang out with and not to be with the cool people… Poor guy. He was so nice and always joking and always smiling and he was nice to me. And me I just wanted to go with the cooler guys…

    Please don’t judge me, I was just an 11 years old girl…

    His life must have been so painful… I feel so bad and guilty and regretful…

    I know it’s not because of something I thought 15 years ago that he did that, but I feel bad for everyone I was not nice in my life and didn’t take time to know them and be nice with them.

    I feel regretful for everybody I didn’t give love to….

    I feel guilty for so many other things as well…

  108.  #108Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    re: 101
    Ella says “Anyway MWC does not read much at all… and I think he also could really benefit from the info in this book.”

    IMHO, this is teetering on codependent behavior. I hope I don’t upset you by saying that. I have codependent tendencies myself, so I constantly have to check myself to act in a healthy way.

    I would suggest reading it and if he asks you can share it with him, otherwise I feel it is coaching him or giving him advice (about something pretty profound) and it’s not healthy…..just my two cents.

    p.s. I’m glad you found a book that is inspiring, I feel curious about the title if you don’t mind sharing with a fellow siren.

  109.  #109Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    And I feel stupid about writing about this stupid school bus story…

    You girls will probably think I am out of my mind. 🙁

  110.  #110Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    It looks like I won’t be contacted during his week on the Caribbean. Well, it doesn’t make me feel happy but gives me an indication of where I am at.

  111.  #111Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Also Ella I believe if I’m not mistaken that this could possibly send you into mothering or friend mode in his eyes…

  112.  #112Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    I’m sorry if I chocked or triggered any of you with my story… 🙁

  113.  #113Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    Liz #77,

    I am not sure, was questioning this myself.

  114.  #114Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 5:04 pm


    I think you did great with your FM’s and sure it may take him time to respond, but it’s a growing time for him, believe me 🙂

  115.  #115Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    By the way, I don’t remember being any kind of mean with him… We were friends, but like kids are friends. Just because we grew up on the same street. It’s like we “had no choice” to be friends…

    I just didn’t try to know him better and this is what makes me feel guilty. I was judging him on his appearance and didn’t want to be “seen” with him. I wanted to have cooler friends…

    I promise I will never judge people on their appearance.

    Please forgive me Universe… 🙁

  116.  #116Rori Raye on February 20, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    Brenda – help – this isn’t the right link – do you have it?

  117.  #117Liz on February 20, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Hi Ella,
    I agree, that you offering to read it to him or even reading it in front of him is in masculine or mothering mode.
    you said in your previous post that he does not respond well to masculine energy and so i think that if he said he is going to address it, you have to believe he will and back him up and support him…although it is tricky when it is alcohol….and be firm what your boundaries are around this issue and stick to it lovingly…good luck…

  118.  #118Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:21 pm


  119.  #119Liz on February 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    what do you mean that you now know where you stand if he is incommunicado for a week? is that good or bad for you?

  120.  #120Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    I think we all have some stories like those that move us and leave an impression on us….reaches us deep down in our bones and shakes up our world…

    hugs to you…

  121.  #121Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm


    of course it’s not good -) If I were more important to him, he would have communicated.

  122.  #122Liz on February 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Hi Lizka,
    I know how you feel and that you feel like if you had been more kind, he might have suffered less….but you probably were nice to him and it was other stuff that was bothering him….one of my ex-students just committed suicide also….and i wished i had connected more with him also….but you did the best you could and you were not mean….you would never be mean….
    it is just so sad when someone dies that way….

  123.  #123Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Thank you Liz your message helps me a lot…

    Thank you Aurora and Brenda and FlowerChild for carrying…

  124.  #124Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    And I feel guilty for thinking of ATW in such a moment…

    I actually haven’t really think of him all day since I was very focusing on what happened to that old friend.

    But now I just realised that he haven’t contact me tonight… I feel afraid that it’s because I said no to see him yesterday and now he thinks I don’t want of him anymore. I know how he is. I’m sure he feels shy and afraid to contact me again… Well I’m not sure but he might… he is very sensitive…

    I don’t mind if he is not contacting me today because I have other stuff to think of… I am just afraid that he will not contact me anymore…

    If he had contacted me tonight, I would have feel reassured that he is still interested and gonna keep stepping up… But he hasn’t…

    And I feel guilty of thinking of that while someone just k*lled himself and his family must be suffering like crazy…

    I feel so selfish…

  125.  #125Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:38 pm


    RE: #116 – Sorry for the long article. The link will work when the comma is changed to a period. Sorry for the inconvenience.

  126.  #126Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:41 pm


    RE: #124 – Is it deserved, real guilt?

  127.  #127Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 5:42 pm


    You told him in FM’s that you want to see him, just not last minute. What’s confusing about this message?

  128.  #128Liz on February 20, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    Just because someone killed themselves, does not mean that you are not supposed to enjoy your life or live your journey… is good that you are selfish and you are supersweet and would never be narcissistic…

  129.  #129Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    Brenda 126 –

    I don’t understand your question… Maybe my bad English?

    Do you mean I shouldn’t feel guilty or he (and who is “he”?) doesn’t deserve my guilt ?


  130.  #130Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    The solution to all my problems is either chocolate or cheesecake. 😉

  131.  #131Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Memulo –

    I don’t know. I think he is very sensitive about these things… I am so afraid that he didn’t understand…

    After I said no for the first time, he made an effort and came back with the car plan. Wich mean we could have go somewhere like a real date and it also mean he didn’t just want to sleep with me… I know it was to make me happy because he knows how I like to get out of the city.

    And I said no and I think I feel regretful. What if there is never another occasion? 🙁

  132.  #132Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm


    RE: #129 – I am indirectly suggested the guilt (it) is not real and not deserved.

    At any moment of any day, hour, and second, people are dying. Animals are dying and being treated cruelly. Women are being forced into slavery. Children are hungry.

    Of course it becomes more real when it is someone we know. Of course it is normal and healthy to care, to feel sad.

    But you are not wrong for thinking about your man and missing him in the midst of it.

    And about wanting to be with the cool kids growing up, you are right: you were 11. Life is a play you can’t rehearse.

    Hugs to Lizka! Brenda

  133.  #133Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Liz 128 –

    Thank you. It feels good but I still feel a little guilty for being selfish…

    And there is more… None of the 3 hot guys I met on Saturday have contact me yet… I feel unworthy…

    It’s been only 2 days…maybe it’s too early?

  134.  #134Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Thank you Brenda. Your post feels good.

    I’m crying so much and it really hurts. And it’s also a physical pain. 🙁

  135.  #135Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 5:52 pm


    Rori notes: “Tool – Radical Accepting
    – Unconditional love for yourself – Forgiving (not that you did anything wrong – there IS nothing wrong – just forgive yourself automatically whenever you try to beat yourself up.

    Loving – Compassion for Whatever happened, Whatever Happens, whatever you Think, Whatever you do…

    Guilt says XXXXXXXXXXXX.

    If keep doing this, you will keep yourself in a safe place. Stepping out of that box, where you no longer feel upset with self, feel scarier than staying with this horrible voice.

    What would it feel like to not listen to this voice? Sitting with a man who could potentially love you. Love me, love my issue. So scary that it’s easier to just keep beating yourself up. Last guy really hurt you.

    Take horrible part that says no one will ever want you. NVs, and put this little person in front of you. What does voice look like? Broken (Name). What do you want from me? Safety. What would make her feel safe? Take care of her. Hold her in your arms and put her on your lap. She is crying. Let her cry, stroke her hair.

    Say to it, “Wow, catch self saying it to self. Body tense, feel bad. Why am I here? I hurt. This is all bad. I want you to hear yourself doing that. Where is it in your body? Relax muscles. Listening at Level 2 with man. Radical accepting. Wow, I caught myself beating myself up again! And this voice thinks it’s so right. I really hear that. Talk to voice. I hear you. Keep arm around her. I hear you screaming, and I will not abandon you. I love you. I hear you, and I am not going there right now. I will never shut you down. But I am not going there right now. I am in charge.”

    Embrace it, catch it. Who is in charge? A bunch of voices going on: ego and real self. Only what your brain things and then you’re a human being and God don’t make no junk. I pass my power over to the man. If he was to reject me, then I am finished. You are the one rejecting you. He is doing nothing. He is irrelevant here. He showed up just for you to bounce ideas off of.

    “Please forgive me.” It becomes a love fest between you and her, your little girl. You are in charge. Every 5 seconds, this may happen. Just keep doing it. I am going to listen to this man. I am going to practice some basic tools here. I am in process.”

  136.  #136Memulo on February 20, 2012 at 5:54 pm


    Just wait.. He wouldn’t contact you the next day after you said no. Let him come up with a plan and have his assistant contact your assistant lol.

    I feel maybe I shouldn’t be too harsh on my guy and expect him to call from the Caribbean.

  137.  #137Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Thanks Brenda for the article…

  138.  #138Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    He texted me,

    Sorry about earlier. I was just frustrated about the situation.

    I said thank you. I don’t want to fight.

    I know he’s at bowling, so that is all I wrote. If he feels like talking, he’ll call or text me later.

  139.  #139Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Memulo –

    I wouldn’t expect him to contact you from the vacation place. He is having a ME moment.

    And if you don’t expect, you might be surprised… who knows?

  140.  #140Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Now that I think of it, ATW knew I was out clubbing the night before…

    What of he thinks I met another guy and he just decided to disappear from my life because he doesn’t feel like competing?

  141.  #141Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 6:00 pm


    You are upping your level of difficulty, because you are a French princess!

  142.  #142Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    ((Lizka)) 107

    Lizka he was lucky to have had you as a friend. You probably brought sunshine and fun into his world playing with him as a little kid.
    I’m so sorry something like this happened. I knew someone that committed su&cide as well, and when I learned of it, it was a weird, sad, teary, slap in the face type of shock feeling. It really was awful. Hugs and prayers to you.

  143.  #143Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Emerson 152 –

    “You probably brought sunshine and fun into his world playing with him as a little kid.”

    I so hope. I so hope I didn’t add to his pain like an hundred people might have do in the 27 years of his life…


    Brenda 141

    “You are upping your level of difficulty, because you are a French princess!”

    Lol thank you, that’s cute 🙂

  144.  #144Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Aww Lizka,

    I’m sorry you are going through this. My brother committed suicide when he was 20, I was 10. It was awful, and support from friends and family really helped us through. It’s hard not to think of what we could do different, but sometimes even family, close loved ones can’t help a person. It is a good reminder to be kind, to everyone. Even the thin and beautiful can be depressed and unhappy.

    Try not to get in ATW’s head. If he didn’t want competition, he wouldn’t be much of a man. They love that stuff. Everything will be ok.

  145.  #145Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Thank you Memulo…. and I bet he’s missing you while on that vacation!

  146.  #146FlowerChild77 on February 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    Lizka….kids can be very mean to each other and part of growing up is learning about that. I understand, though, why you’re thinking about that particular day, etc.

    I like what Emerson said, too. Try and think of some things about him and your knowing him that make you smile…and when you remember him…think of that <3

  147.  #147Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    This is the controlling person article url:

  148.  #148Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 6:25 pm


    147 – Thank you very much!

  149.  #149Aurora Girl on February 20, 2012 at 6:25 pm


    I am heading to bed soon, but just wanted to say, that it’s reasonable to feel vulnerable when we get the kind of news you got today and in your posts I hear lots of negative voices taking hold ………which is also normal right? the more vulnerable we feel, the louder they get…….we second guess ourselves sometimes because suddenly life feels fragile and unpredictable. You are the same siren you were the other night and this morning before you got the news…and for sure I would be thinking of someone (for you ATW) who made me feel good so I could feel better……perfectly understandable….

    …you are such a gentle sweet siren…….

    hugs to you…….all the good things you need will come to you…..deep breath dear siren….


  150.  #150Lizka on February 20, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Thank you so much everyone.

    I’m still crying very hard but at least I feel better because I could talk here…

    I didn’t tell anyone how I really felt about this today…

    My father called me tonight to see how I was taking it and I felt so afraid to share my feelings.

    There is no one in the world with who I could have share this school bus story. I feel so ashamed of it and it feels so ridiculous…

    Thank you for being there for me! xoxo

  151.  #151Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 6:36 pm


    There is nothing wrong with your school bus story. I feel curious…why are you afraid to share your feelings with your father?

  152.  #152Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    Well, tonight when I came home, he was in a mood, but after a few comments he said to me, I am over dealing with the sadness. And I said And I am over dealing with the Anger. Probably not the Rori way way, but after the day yesterday, I felt the need to tell him that his anger brings on my sadness.

    Anyway it is funny, because when he started to snuggle me, I was crying, and it was a way to get love from him. And I was very depressed about him dumping that load of anger and blamed on me, so I talked about how sad I felt and how it was hard to pull myself out of the depression since I felt like I had been trying so hard.

    He went on to say How would you feel if someone was being depressed around you? And I know exaclty how that feels because I think he is depressed. It is no fun to be around a depressed man who acts out in anger instead of tears. But I kept my mouth shut. He is very down.

    Well, that was a huge mistake. From now on, I gotta keep the tears to a minimum. I gotta talk only about things that are going well in my life and how he is making me happy. I do need to learn to set some limits when he is angry. The thing is, since he is depressed, when I am sad, and he sees that he can’t make me happy, he gets more depressed.

    So no more tears. And I no longer care if he drinks or not. Gotta turn that one completely over to him.

    I am going to focus on me, getting myself happier, appreciating the nice things Pat does for me. And I want to declutter. That will make me feel better too.

    So to cheer me up, I am singing happy songs in my head when I am around him to keep my mood up, but not be overly sunny while he is recovering from Sunday.

    I feel like whether this relationship works out is at a coin toss now. Could go one way, could go another, but for me, I need to focus on getting better, because regardless of how it turns out, I want to be a happier person. So from now on, I focus on me.

  153.  #153Brenda on February 20, 2012 at 6:39 pm


    I wonder why you dislike me so much?

  154.  #154Hopeful on February 20, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    Ella – What is the title of that book you mentioned? I am curious.

    I am no expert, but I know what does not work for me for Masculine men. They do not want you to mother them and tell them what to do.

    If you have a drinking problem, and that book is helful to you, you can talk about how it helps you, with only the intention of talking about you, not gettign him to read it.

    Or if a friend is reading that book and found it helpful you could mention it. Otherwise, I would keep your mouth shut about the book, and just applaud him when he talks about himself making positive changes, otherwise you are going to come across as being a mother.

    That is just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

  155.  #155Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    Turquoise 83
    Wow sounds like a stressful day. So sorry that happened. I like your feeling message. It sounds like he is really being verbally abusive and taking out his frustrations on you.
    You handled it well and stayed calm.

  156.  #156Butterfly wings on February 20, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Turquoise – I’m so glad he apologized. And I think you handled things beautifully too. xx

  157.  #157Butterfly wings on February 20, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Lizka – I posted on FB too and just wanted to let you know I’m thinking of you.

    And the school bus story isn’t ridiculous at all – I’m sure we all at least know somebody who thought like you did – or we thought that way ourselves.

    I can totally relate!

  158.  #158mali on February 20, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    UGH, Im feeling turned off.

    A guy who I’d met with his friends at a club last week- with my friends too… he invited us round for drinks.

    So he texted a few hours back asking if we were still up for drinks; though he had my number and I didn’t have his. So I asked him who he was, and he told me saying sorry for not texting before.

    He suggested 9, I told him I had plans for 10, so if we could push it back an hour?

    So he says, half an hour later, So drinks at 10? Sorry for the late texts.

    And Im annoyed- I said push BACK by an hour… and my friends Im assuming are asleep, so I don’t know if they can even make it.

    Ick, I don’t even feel like replying. I’m used to being chased- maybe it’s an ego thing. But once I know what’s happening with the others, then I’ll let him know…

    Mind you, this guy is 21. I do feel like he has a lot to learn, and if he really thinks my interest is gonna remain in last minute plans etc; he’s gonna be in for a surprise… He does seem genuine, to be fair. Just not a man yet 😉

  159.  #159Butterfly wings on February 20, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    Hi everyone. I’m still feeling happy and although TH and I haven’t had much alone time the last few days.

    Tonight should be better though. Yay! 🙂

  160.  #160Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    Lizka I don’t think you are stupid. That kind of thing we as humans experience. I have heard of people who survived the world trade center tragedy as feeling guilty. Some of the soldiers in Iraq who lost their comarades feel guilty. It seems they felt it should have been them rather than their friends.

    Regarding ATW for some reason I felt a bit disappointed when I read that you had turned him down, what was it, 3 times. I might be wrong on this but I believe that I might have agreed when he asked the 3rd time. Share some feeling messages about my preferences when I was with him and ask to be taken home after about 2 hours if he wanted to hang out longer. I might be off base here but the 3 rejections could have bruised his ego. It could have caused some confusion after you seemed to have suggested in the past that you want more time with him. It also seemed like punishing him for ignoring you for 3 days. I am thinking here about the counterintuitive thing that coaches talk about. We want to be close and connected yet when it is offered in a way that is not convenient to us or packaged in the way we want it we push it away. I don’t know, I didn’t want to say anything to disagree with the other sirens or diminish the way you were feeling but I suspected that your NVs would creep in after. In any event you will get to see how this affects both of you so you can change your steps in the future if the experience comes up again.

  161.  #161Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    Thank you Emerson. I am actually glad it happened…. it reminded me of the side of him that I don’t like. Helps to put things in perspective a bit. Everything has been really great lately, but there are real reasons we weren’t happy, and his temper was one of them. My oldest even commented that he got mad at her for not taking his call when she was on the phone with me, and yelled at her. She said, mom…”he justs gets so mad so easily.”

    I have faults too… but this is something we’d need to work on and heal if we even had a chance of being happy together. I’m not giving up that it’s possible, just good to get a reality check and take the rose colored glasses off for a bit.

    Like I said earlier, I can’t work on him, or make him do the work… but by working on me and how I handle stressful conversations, I’ll be happier. Maybe that will inspire some self reflection for him too.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    Turquoise I read about your episode and am not sure what to say. It seems that you were stressed and that to a certain extent your girls fighting aggravated the stressful situation. It seems like the quick fix was to call your husband who might have been looking forward to relaxing and then had to deal with what he might have experienced as a disruption. Being so far away I imagine that he might have thought that it should have been easy for you to handle. Then he tried and failed. It is my opinion that men are not good at failing or feeling like failures. His expressions might have been out of frustration. I am not giving him a pass here just suggesting that you might want to switch shoes with him for a moment to give yourself the space to figure out how you might be better able to handle a similar situation in the future – knowing how he is. I imagine that to a certain extent he wants to know that you are strong enough to handle stuff when it arises. Not suggesting that you aren’t but it is something that I have heard from my kids dad and from other dads. They will be quite aware that the kids are more responsive to them but they still talk like we should be able to handle the crap.

  163.  #163Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Turquoise would you be comfortable opening up a conversation about the anger the next time you see him? Also being a military man I imagine that there might be some buried trauma that he has never spoken about.

  164.  #164Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Thank you Butterfly wings. He called to say goodnight to the girls, but I just answered and handed the phone to them. I’m glad he apologized too. We tend to fight, apologize, and then let it go…. until next time. I need to do some reading on dealing with anger, and also to be prepared on how to react when things start going that way.

  165.  #165Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Lizka now that you have shared that story and realized that no one has judged you for it, it might be good to step out of your comfort zone and share it with your dad the next time you speak. The more you share these types of things is the more the power they have over you loosens. I understand the hestitation around sharing such things though.

  166.  #166Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Turquoise I believe him texting while at bowling is huge. They usually only focus on one thing at a time and the fact that he was thinking about the incident enough to take the moment to text is big of him so I would really appreciate it. You know how men are with their games. It is a time when they get into their emotional bodies. I have made the mistake of lashing out when mine was at a competitive game and called after having disappeared for a while. He called to find out what was happening and why I was leaning back.

  167.  #167Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 8:29 pm


    After over 6 years of being a single mom… I hope he knows how much I can handle with the girls. Truthfully, I’ve been a single mom off and on for 11 years. Even when we were married, he was gone a lot.

    I was stressed at work, everyone was in a bad mood… and I was feeling a little resentful that he chose to leave early, when he could have spent most of the day with them. It’s frustrating because I don’t have that option, to just say, “oh I have work to do or want a day to relax or whatever… so I’m not going to be responsible for you today.” He seems to have liked handling some parenting issues and I complimented him on being patient with them, which he even brought up to them that he liked it and had done a good job with them. Then, he also easily dealt with another issue of them speaking meanly to each other, and they listened well. Part of me wants him to be more involved in their daily lives and interactions, and dealing with behavior is part of that.

    I wasn’t expecting this conversation to go the way it did. Lunch, shouldn’t have even been an issue. He should be able to handle speaking to them about getting along, without it turning into what this was.

    As far as his anger issues, he’s had them for as long as I’ve known him… 18 years. It’s not just because of the military, but I do feel open to talking to him about it, as I know he doesn’t like it about himself either, and while it seems to happen less, he is very easily triggered. He has seen and endured tragic, terrible, unimaginable things with the military, and it has changed him. He’s different than he was even just a few years ago. In most ways, for the better.

    I’d need to really think about what I’d like to say with him. There is a book that was recommended to me, the dance of anger I think it’s called. Maybe it would give me some good information, and I could pass it on to him.

  168.  #168Butterfly wings on February 20, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Turquoise – Do you think he maybe picked up on your resentful vibe maybe? Did you express that you were feeling that way about leaving early?

    I’m just wondering if you’ve stuffed your feelings and then in your initial request you may have across harshly?

    Just some thoughts.


  169.  #169Femininewoman on February 20, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    RE 168 Same thing crossed my mind.

  170.  #170Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    Yes FW…. it was big that he texted while at bowling, he doesn’t normally do that. I do appreciate it.

    I feel that I really want to lean back, I didn’t even want to talk to him tonight, as we’d do our normal… just let it go, not really talk about what happened beyond the basic sorry I was stressed about something else….

    I’m excited about the surprise party on Friday, so I’m shifting my focus compeletely off him and onto that. I’m excited and the girls will love it. I invited two of CM’s friends also, even though it’s CV’s party.

    I also invited the moms to stay, plus my bff and sisters… so we’ll get a bit of a girls night too! Not for them to sleepover, but to have wine and snacks and hang out and catch up. It will be fun.

  171.  #171tenny on February 20, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    Rori, I go for acupuncture and acupressure massage and it always makes me feel that I’m going an extra step to love myself and stay healthy. Thanks for sharing your list. I you roll a towel to lean back over!

  172.  #172LiliBee on February 20, 2012 at 8:51 pm


    Awww FW 🙂

    It makes me feel important to read that I can inspire people as much as they inspire me.

    Tonight, I decluttered my dining table. There were all sorts of bills, magazine clippings, pictures..anything.
    I feel proud of how my dining room looks now, all clean and pretty. I now have a clear view of my romantic center piece.
    And I caught up on my budget and paying bills.

  173.  #173Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    No, I don’t think so. I have felt that way in the past, and we’ve had those talks… but this time I shared that his plans hadn’t been clear to me, I thought he was staying, but I understood he wanted to get back, still wasn’t feeling great and he had work to do. He also said he wanted to avoid traffic, which I said sounded like a good idea. I asked if he was going into the office or working from home, and he said he’d be home. Then he said he’d call the girls in the morning and I said that I appreciated that, as I’d be working, and felt good to have him check in on them too.

    I tried calling the girls a bunch of times and they weren’t answering, so I texted him and said,

    “Girls aren’t answering. can you try for awhile?”

    He replied, “I tried, please call the neighbor to check on them.” (My across the street neighbor babysat for us when we first moved, she’s a stay home mom, so she checks in on them if I need)

    Just then CM texted me to say her sister was screaming at her and she wanted me to come home. (they had still been sleeping)

    I texted her back that I’d call when I could, she could call her dad and he’d help them work it out.

    I wasn’t sure she’d texted him or not. so I texted him and said, CM just texted, they are fighting. Can you please call and handle it?”

    He didn’t reply back. About 5 min. later I got a break so I called and he didn’t answer, so I called our oldest.

    Then I get a text from him that says, “Quit Fuc%ing calling. Don’t ask me to handle it then keep interrupting!!!!!

    Then, “Hang up with CV now”

    So no, I don’t think my vibe was resentful or negative. I think I asked him to help deal with the situation since he was at home, and I was at work. Maybe he was reminded of past conversations/situations… I don’t know. But, I don’t think I said or did anything to deserve being sworn at.

  174.  #174Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    The trigger to me was FW saying maybe he wanted a day to relax, as if he deserves that more than I deserve having him help with parenting, especially when I’m at work. I didn’t get upset about it until it was brought up here, as we have had those conversations before and it triggered those old feelings. He does better now than he used to. For most of their lives, he’s been the fun dad who takes them on vacations, shopping, and didn’t care if they stayed up late, acted up or got their homework done with they were with him.

  175.  #175LiliBee on February 20, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    I’ve been browsing on Match.
    A guy put me in his favourites but he has never reached out to me, what’s up with that?
    Saving me for later I guess?
    I ain’t gonna be a snack buddy.
    I’m gonna be the main course of a delicious dinner!
    So start cookin already. lol

  176.  #176Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    Goodnight Sirens,

    Thanks for your help processing and sharing your thoughts and perspective. I’m ok, was a good reminder of an issue we need to overcome and to see our behavior patterns.

    Best part is I was tempted to have a talk with him, about us, how he’s feeling…. and now oh no. I’m not tempted. I’m leaning back, and any conversations we have like that, will happen in person, not on the phone or in texts. I need to write out some scripts, think about what I want to say about the anger, about how we handle problems, and then for when we talk about us.

    Hugs! Thanks for listening/responding! 🙂

  177.  #177Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    To be clear, I did feel a little resentful that he said he’d call and check on them, and then when he did get involved, it was to take it out on me and tell me I needed to go home. I wasn’t happy he left early, but I could tell he wasn’t feeling great and had a lot on his mind. HE was moodier than I’ve seen in a long time. I’m learning to let go of expectations, and that I don’t always get what I want, so not worth getting upset over.

    Ok, off to bed! Goodnight!

  178.  #178tenny on February 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    I gave CD assertive the no girlfriend script and he said he loves me wants me and wants us to work towards marriage. I told him it would feel good to date a month or two more before we get into a serious thing. I told him about CD song. how can I just turn things off with CD song?! He is not stepping up like cd assertive, but he is on his own schedule. I want to give it a chance with cd assertive but I don’t want to stop dating cd song. 🙁 I don’t feel good about my decisions right now. Cd song is responding to my vibe and I feel awful

  179.  #179Turquoise on February 20, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    One last post… and then I really am going to bed 🙂

    FW, I don’t know what I can do to eliminate these kinds of conversations except to not ask him for help with parenting. He doesn’t like hearing the negatives. If the girls are having trouble in school, he’s quick to say that I was a teacher, no reason for that. If he wants them to miss school and be with him, and I comment that it might not be a good idea because they’ll miss too much, I’m being too serious, they are just kids, can miss school. If I say girls are fighting, he’s quick to say that they should get spanked. Their rooms aren’t clean, grounded.

    It’s been better since Christmas. It really has. I hoped that him being around more, us talking and sharing, supporting each other to the kids, would all help.

    The only way I know to avoid these types of fights, is to not say anything negative about the kids, or ask for his help with discipline.

    Sometimes it feels easier to just do it myself. But other times I’m tired. I don’t want to always be the bad guy. I want him to step up and do his part. There is a lot more to parenting than just the fun stuff. I feel very responsible for molding them into the people they’ll become. It’s overwhelming to think about sometimes.

  180.  #180Butterfly wings on February 20, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    Turquoise – do you think of specifically asking him to deal with it, he may have responded better if you’d said something more like: “I feel frustrated and don’t know what to do. The girls are fighting and I really can’t get away from work because I’m trying to catch up from last week. What do you think?

    I could’ve worded that better but hard on phone. What do you think? xx

  181.  #181Silver-Tongued Siren on February 20, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I am still catching up – just finished from the last thread.

    Emerson 443

    Well it’s an interesting place I’m in…
    I think some things that happen may not be easy for others here to understand, but things are different here, in the place I’m in at the moment.

    I’m not quite sure why it is that this is not so strange to talk about, but.. I AM the one who brought it up, I think.

    Also, there is sort of a personality which has an odd openness in boundaries, or perhaps a lack of wisdom about where boundaries should be… and I understand this, as I have been there before and in many ways AM still learning about boundaries. I have been learning for SO many years now how to stand up for myself, how and where to place boundaries, how to value myself for all I am and all I do.
    It’s a long journey, going back and forth trying to strike a middle balance.

    I am not mortified that he was talking about some other woman’s intimate allergies, it’s just something that he’s tried to make “boundaries” about in the past, when he has said “I will tell you if anything ever happens and I will use a condom” and now is not following, since he decided he’s just going to “take space” and do whatever he wants and not be “committed” to me anymore. And regardless of what he wants to call us right now, THIS is important to me. I don’t want him getting any more diseases, or myself, And I don’t know HOW I would live with it if he ever had any children or abortions with another woman. I am feeling like he is not really very clear right now.. I feel his mind has been kind of dulled and muddied by some of the things he’s put into his body and it feels scary that maybe he is not making the wisest decisions. I am praying for him though and really seeing big differences in things everytime I do.

    But whatever we were talking about, I think it was I who brought it up, when he later informed me (again – I had forgotten) that she’s allergic. (and I don’t ****ing care!) When the subject came up again of disease and pregnancy yesterday, I informed HIM there are latex alternatives. So we will see what he does. However, his response was “I want to save up money to have a vasectomy” – which we’ve talked about for years, and I don’t want him to do, and even if he did I wouldn’t feel ok with not using condoms, just slightly relieved that HOPEFULLY it would be less likely he would get anyone pregnant (….except that I would like to have that option available, myself – he always says “it’s reversible” but I think the entire procedure is unhealthy and potentially dangerous to his sexual health..but he’s in charge of him..)

    Anyway I guess my point was that I can’t hold it against him for honestly explaining to me something that I pointed out. However it’s a bullshit excuse, which I so sweetly allowed him to be aware that I am aware of. 😀 … I think if anyone was at “fault” here, it would be me, since I engaged/brought it up, however, yes, maybe I do feel a little icky that we even have to be talking about that, and a little icky that he wouldn’t want to protect me from hearing about all that or from any of it!. .. very weird thing, boundaries ….

    Also 108 Emerson – “is he competing with you??

    I don’t think he’s doing it purposely just to be competitive, But I do need to outgirl him sometimes.

    He does seem to have a bit of feminine energy, in requesting things be EQUAL…and it seems genuine. he always has, so it’s not out of the usual – I have just interacted with him in such a way that it has never been a problem. I have always expected to be paid for & picked up, etc.

    Once in a while I will drive us home if he’s been drinking.. and..I would actually like to offer a tip or pay once in a while as we’ve been in a rlsp and in a rlsp you can lean forward more with things like that Once In A While. I think I do FAR enough in other areas but in the last year I have been learning that he doesn’t Recognize all the ways I love him, appreciate him, contribute. As in the book the Five Love Languages… I think his main love languages are Gifts, Verbal Affirmation, and Affection.

    I feel a pull to be all give me give me, I’m the woman, but I also feel okay with learning his language a little bit, since he tries to learn mine.

    Emerson 445 – Yes I have joined many meetup groups too and have yet to go to one! Lol. Brenda’s ahead of me there, too! Even in the past two weeks I’ve been thinking about it and still haven’t even looked.

    451 Lizka – I agree with Emerson 453 “I love your FM about body feeling electric…that sounds very very sireny and sexy!!!”

    I don’t think it sounds unusual to say. Maybe it depends on the crowd. J

    Like Emerson said in 458 “when I say FM I get nervous sometimes because I’m not sure what will happen but then the men I’ve said it to always react with interest and in a positive way!!” — I have the same experience. In fact… One man was messaging me online a couple of weeks ago.. he always messages me – in fact I’ve never met him in person – he’s a friend of a friend. He always flatters me with how beautiful I am, and nearly keeps the entire conversation up himself. He said he bets I’m a good kisser……… !?!??!?! …. (talk about not a regular comment). … and I said I don’t know, you’d have to ask someone else!… but he would not be diverted, he kept on about it and if more than 75% answered yes then it must be true, and if he asked them, would 75% agree and have I ever had a complaint, lol… and I felt nervous (maybe that’s silly) but I said.. “all of this kissy talk is making me feel shy….” And he just loved it up like a cat in catnip.

    and that’s usually how it goes.

    Never a negative response.

    Lizka 459 – “they are strangers, why would I care??” Exactly!!!
    473 -yes you can say I feel flirty!
    And I think 474 FW was definitely positive, I think yes you should be a butterfly!

    Emerson 468 –
    Floating around on a small boat in the dark on the ocean, seeing sea creatures…scary.

    The boat I think is your life, or a situation. Possibly even a relationship with someone. Was anyone else on the boat? The boat is small, in a large ocean, where you can’t see, you’re afraid of the dark creatures..Water, the ocean, is your emotional state. When it’s clear, etc it’s good, when it’s dark, it’s not so good, you can’t see, you’re afraid of what the emotions hold.. creatures you don’t understand.. things that look scary… maybe you feel stranded, – is there land nearby?

    Daria 482- thanks for posting the link to the article so I could see it. I am sure there must be a way for you to tell her to remove your review from her page…..legally..

    504 Lilybelly,
    wow, my heart goes out to you… I feel your pain. I feel so thankful that you have your father there to comfort you, too.

    515- I love that you went out dancing! I MISS GOING OUT DANCING!!!!

    “You didn’t even notice what happened when we walked in here, did you? I was like?? What did I miss? He said every man in the room turned and looked at you when we came in. They were ALL looking at you..even the women (there wasn’t a lot of people in there) but my vibe was up and I was feeling amazingly good. And you know what else?
    He said that he felt proud to be with me.. You can do this…get the music cranking when you are getting ready…talk to yourself about how wonderful you are and smile and wink at yourself and pull yourself up. It can be done…I KNOW it because I just did it last night”

    THAT was worth REPEATING!!! Thank you for sharing that!! Wow, I love that he told you about it!!! That feels so special and flattering, wow that feels amazing!!!! I want to feel like that! 😀
    I love feeling the energy all high!!!!!!!!! Love it. I think I am feeling it just off your message!

  182.  #182Silver-Tongued Siren on February 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    759 – Sunshine…
    “does anyone here know of any examples of a good man who has allowed a woman he has feelings for date other men as well? and then marry her with out wanting her to be his girlfriend first? trust me I would want this to be the truth but feel doubtful are there any real life examples of this?”
    I would like to see some examples, also! 😀

    Tiffany 761
    Wow! I am glad that it turned out well in the end, though!!!
    “Man, though. I am a bad decision-maker when I am tired.”
    ME TOO.
    763 Silver MoonBeam
    “slathered myself in ff yogurt” what Is ff yogurt?

    765 Silver MoonBeam! I love the gospel music churches too!!! Love the music.

    768 Jilly
    “nd I really prefer to be doing something too on dates…it creates a relationship instead of “talking” about it…and that’s how men bond right?”
    good point. I hadn’t thought about that in terms of actual dates -… I like activities too. Man I wish it were easier for me to get out with the baby (or without the baby!!!) I would have a million men taking me to dinner or other things. Sigh.. And that is exactly what my current relationships need… or whatever they are. 😀

    784 Starla –
    “i never call first *unless* I’m upset or need something. That is why he was asking me if everything is okay. Once he realized I really did just call because this thing that happened to me while I was cooking reminded me of him, the whole vibe shifted up big time. it was very interesting.”
    Starla, I was wondering, is it okay to do this? To call when we are upset or need something? I think I used to do this at one point.. but now I try only to initiate a call once in a while (if he’s been calling a lot or regularly) and to let it be just a regular happy call, so they associate me with pleasant things? I am confused about what would be best though. Maybe a call when you need something makes them feel needed?

    Sirens, what do you think? I have been wondering about this for a while!

    805 Lizka!
    “Who does he think I am? Not calling me for 3 days and than call me last minute and insist to see me even if I told him I need to relax???
    Yeah dude you had a good weekend partying with your friends and now on Sunday everyone is relaxing so you call the stupid Lizka because you know she has nothing better to do??
    Pffff ATW can go back to poof mode for now if he wants. I am no more gonna accept that.
    I am really feeling mad and disrespected. If he wants to see me again, he seriously gonna have to step up big time this time.
    Wow I feel strong and powerful.”

    YESSSSS Keep this attitude!! I agree!

    Turquoise 812!
    Your experience is sounding a lot like mine.. practicing leaning back with not asking when he’ll be back, with hugging, with agreeing with him when he wants to leave. It feels good to have someone to relate to.
    Also, you’re inspiring me to get rid of clutter. I am not quite sure WHAT around here MILW thinks we need to get rid of, but when he first showed me the place he is staying at right now he said “THIS is what I wish our house looked like” – “it feels clean, there is stuff stacked up, but it’s neat”…………….. I am constantly working on this at our house… part of it is there is a baby getting things out all the time, plus baby gear, … and we also rented a storage and put a lot of things in there, but I’m not sure any of that is stuff to get rid of either? Camping gear, books, kids stuff that’s not in use, etc… but that comment really stuck with me, even though later he did say that the biggest issue is the carpet and affording a hardwood floor… but still – I need to make some money. Maybe I should have a yard sale too, lol. And Craigslist!

    815 – Turquoise!
    ” STS, thank you, I would have loved to get your hug!
    I ah….. took care of myself in the oxitocin department and felt much better! lol.”

    817 – Brenda & Turquoise – Wedding & Dessert! ME TOO!

    829 Daria… yes I feel that way too sometimes about my first fiancé. You know, I wasn’t even interested in him when I met him, yet he pursued me endlessly until finally we were together. He even asked me to marry him the first time we had sex. He was the first person I had sex with. He was/is one of the best men I have ever known. He was always such a gentleman to me, even leaving his brother’s bachelor party early instead of spending the night, to come home to be with me (we lived in different states and I was visiting). He was always sort of jealous and I was always sort of afraid to put all my eggs in one basket so I had lots of men friends he was uncomfortable with. Even though we were engaged. He eventually broke up with me, after beginning to date another girl. Of course, she left him for her ex boyfriend. We exchanged letters for a while.. He is married to another girl now though. And I think she is great for him. She looks like him, even. I am sure they are a great match. But I still feel sad when I think about him and remember all the good times we had. We were truly best friends and did EVERYthing together. You never know though, how life will go. My first husband already has passed away. (and he was even more amazing!!!!) Sometimes I think, maybe when we are a lot older we will reconnect again. You never know. But I relate to your feeling sad about him.

    811/835 Turquoise/Silver Moonbeam
    “I bet C as he is driving home is wondering what is happening with the new Siren you. I sooooo hope you guys get back together, I’m a sucker for happy endings especially where kids are involved.”

    ME TOO!

  183.  #183tenny on February 20, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    I don’t want to change my CDing just because cd assertive wants love and marriage. I feel forced, and that make me feel unreal.

  184.  #184Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    #43 Liz

    I felt so sad reading that about 10 year old Lizzy. Nobody should have to suffer that kind of attention from their own father of all people.

    {{{{ HUGS }}}}

  185.  #185Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    #63 Luzydel

    Did you see my message from The Universe on the previous blog? It could be speaking to you too……

  186.  #186Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    #70 SLV!!

    We’ve missed you!! Yes you do share some really fun stuff 🙂 BTW have you got yourself one of your beloved flippy skirts yet?? 😀

  187.  #187Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    #95 Aurora

    You are way behind on your Corrie, lots of steamy stuff coming her way for our Eileen from an unexpected meeting!!! Keep watching. 😀

  188.  #188Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    #103 Ella

    Even though you are talking about reading it out gently to him at bedtime it feels like a Mummy reading bedtime stories with a moral/lesson to be learnt……..(DOing)

    He has said he will cut back on the drinking, maybe he can do it on his own?

  189.  #189Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    #107 Lizka

    {{{ HUGS }}}

    I’m so sorry about this poor young guy. But you have no reason to beat yourself up, you were only a child and kids can be VERY cruel and mean as you know.

    And don’t feel guilty for being slim, you are slim because you choose to run almost every day!!

  190.  #190Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    #102 Turq

    Hey you did just great and when you think I shoulda said this or I shoulda said that, just think how you would have reacted and lashed out say months ago so differently, baby steps remember!!

  191.  #191Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    43 Liz ((Lizzy))
    I’m so sorry to hear that happened to you!!! 🙁 Super sad face I feel really sad reading what you wrote in 43. I feel teary and choked up and frowny face and I also impressed and empowered and proud to “know” you and how you are so amazing and strong…an inspiring siren.
    Sending love and hugs sweetie

  192.  #192Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    47 Thank you Curvy Siren, I have heard of that book but never read it!

    Thank you sirens for your listening and your ideas and love and support and feelings and thoughts, I really do get so much support from all of you and I know I’m going to continue to grow and be a better woman (siren)!!!!

    Even since Summertime when I was spending time with Recycled, I’ve changed so much!

    There were some painful things, but I’m learning. I feel bad sometimes that I cut off contact with him because he did help me financially over the Summer (just a little bit)…but he was also lying to me the whole time so maybe he can take it as a lesson.

    I don’t want to talk about him anymore but I realized today that my worst reality to face with regards to my time spent with him is that I really just didn’t mean that much to him and that makes me sad to think about. Like feeding the NVs like ‘you’re really NOT that VALUABLE’….

    Not true, I know……………..

    hmmm…I think I did mean something to him, I’m pretty sure, but sometimes I wonder if I was just another girl and I want to think that I was actually special. I’m confused so I want to stop thinking about it now.

  193.  #193Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    Wow I even remember he wanted to spend so much time with me and then all of a sudden it stopped. 🙁
    Maybe I’m still “stuck” there and I don’t understand what happened…..I’m dwelling on it now.
    Ok no more.

  194.  #194Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    In other news….I met a new potential CD online and he’s super cute and my type! And…he’s totally stepping up! He called me earlier but I don’t feel like calling him back because I had a long day and I’m tired!! Is it ok to just return his call tomorrow sometime?
    I think so. He also emailed me and texted! LOLs how cute. I told him I don’t text so I’m not going to reply to that, but maybe I can reply to the email but what should I say? He just emailed like hi I called you earlier and wanted to hear your voice…etc…
    so I’m tired and cannot think of a fem/sultry/feelingy reply…….all that is coming to mind is:
    I’m tired. Call u tomorrow. later skater!! LOLs…
    help me sirens if you are still awake!!!!

  195.  #195Emerson on February 20, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    56 WTBH
    Yes I like inner bonding too…but I find the waterwheel to be a good “go to ” tool when I feel to overwhelmed to concentrate on anything….

  196.  #196Silver Moonbeam on February 20, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    #7 Starla

    Thanks for the link sometimes I “forget” there is such wonderful stuff on youtube, I have bookmarked it and have just spent some time listening to chill out music which I love. 🙂

  197.  #197Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:13 am

    Liz or AG

    Can you please post the link you talked about, I didn’t take much notice before as I thought it was hard core rap. 🙂 I thought the guy’s name was pronounced like the state too ha!!

    What’s wrong with good old names like John, Paul, George and *Ringo*? 😀

  198.  #198Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 12:21 am

    MILW called yesterday morning just to talk!!!! YES!!
    Afterwards he mentioned maybe stopping by the house to work on the computer but that he was having a hard time finding time to eat between all his work appointments- was there anything to snack on? Then he changed his mind bc he realized he had to go back to the apt to use the other computer. He asked if I would want to make him dinner. I talked about loving us making dinner together and he reiterated that he wanted ME to make dinner – as he would still be working setting his crashed computer back up. He said he would love to help in the kitchen if he could, and I know how hard it is for him to keep out of the kitchen when he has time. This is true – lol – he can be intimidating in the kitchen and was for the longest time. Now I am pretty confident and have learned a lot from him. I can throw together something from nothing and he even recently commented that I’ve become a great cook!!!

    I agreed, and he kept me updated on his afternoon, then arrived quietly as I was working in the backyard. I sat on his lap and we talked about dinner, and then I got it started, and he almost immediately was finished with his work and came to help! So we did get to make dinner together!!! (he hears me!!!!!) … we didn’t clean up. We made dessert also, and he really enjoyed throwing ingredients into that and we ate it up while watching some tv episodes and a movie – (he fell asleep during the movie). AND I asked him to massage my neck and back, and he did for a loonnnng time. Then we rubbed each other’s feet!!! I put baby to bed, and then came back and asked him to come to bed…(he often falls asleep on the sofa and then comes to bed halfway thru the night. The sofa is comfy he says). (whyyyy did I do thatJ .. I finally just turned the lights off and about 15 mins later he came to bed.

    I was so sore and uncomfortable all night, I always am with baby in the bed, feel so cramped (he’s big now and all over the bed). I need new pillows. My neck and back hurt so bad this week I can hardly move them. We had flirted throughout the day yesterday, but didn’t have sex last night- I mean – he didn’t try to – maybe because I was on my period. Or maybe because of my denial of putting him in my mouth while we were making and he said “I haven’t had sex since you, I haven’t even masturbated”.. I’m glad he wants me to know that. J But I still didn’t do it. He had been talking about doing it to me a few times thru the day though. It felt so nice to feel wanted this way! Of course, he loves sex with me.

    This morning he got out of bed and showered, went and started cleaning the kitchen!! (which he had stopped, and used to get mad that I had left it til morning- this morning he said “WE left a mess last night” and started cleaning it.)…

    He then started working, and around 11:30 called someone and said “im going to come over and scan these things” (even tho he has a scanner app on his phone that works great for me!?).. then go to yoga at noon. An hour after yoga was over I had to call him to discuss rental business, and baby schedule for a thing I have to go to this wk.

    He originally had agreed to watch baby that day but the date has been changed 3 times on me, so now he has a class that day. He said try to find someone else, but I can skip it if needed. (So I can make a tiny bit of money at my thing). I said I’d see what I could work out.

    He called back later, said “I think I found someone” – “who” – girl he cheated with, who he’s been hanging out. I am not sure I can even call it cheating. She’s not even pretty, it’s rare, and she lacks so much (according to him even). I mean, it’s like it doesn’t even hold any water. She doesn’t hold a candle to me. I don’t even know what the point is.
    I said no.. I would rather have someone who wants to bring their kids for a playdate… but he knows I just don’t want her around the kids – I think he was just testing me because he’s been noticing my different behavior (like being completely apathetic to it when he showed up with her and her friend in the car the other day), etc)… testing my waters. 😀 hehe.

    And then, he asked if he could use the car to help her pick an item up. I hesitated at first but then said yes. Due to thinking about “love your enemies, pray for and do good to them who curse you/persecute you” etc. So I tried by offering my car. He arrived, left her outside, (he knows better), greeted my son who ran out to hug him (who happened to be here visiting) came in while I was showing the house to someone, said hey babe and kissed me on the mouth, and then left.
    2 ½ hrs later he returned with car, supervised the kid doing our lawn, and left without coming in.

    Texted me: Thanks for letting me use the car to help so and so. Your gas tank is full.
    Me: Of course. It would have felt better to get your thank you in person. Thanks for putting gas in and supervising kid doing the lawn!
    (I felt bad that he didn’t come in to say anything to me…..instead just left with her.)
    I went out no less than 5 times the other day to tell him about spots he left.. just so you know I did have him re do several things. It is already getting tall again just since it rained!
    Him: Your welcome. I left feeling you might not want to be around so-and-so if at all possible. Did you have anyone come by today to view the house?
    Me: Thank you for so sweetly nurturing my emotional space! Yes! I believe we have the man you met for sure, he needs to decide on a room and return the app. Hopefully more show up tomorrow, I put another ad up also.
    Him: Cool, thanks for staying on it!

  199.  #199Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 12:21 am

    And then nothing else for the rest of the day! Not even a goodnight message. I feel disappointed, sad, lonely,… duped? But then, I start to remember, everytime we make progress, he may take a moment to himself.

    She texted me also after that and said “thank u so much for the use of your vehicle. The item didn’t work out but I appreciate your willingness to help. I put some gas in ur car but MILW filled it up too”
    Me:Thank you for replacing gas. That is disappointing the item didn’t work out! If you find another, let us know, maybe we can help again.
    Her: awesome news J

    So I offered my car again if she needs help. Of course, MILW will have to drive it again. lol. It was empty when he picked it up. I hope my text communicated “of course he filled it up. He always does that. Thanks for replacing the gas that HE put in it, since there was none, and let my husband and I know if you need help again.” (and did you notice he has his own key to the car, and all his things still live at Our House? And he directs the boy mowing the lawn? And he paid for it?) J yesssssssssssssss. My whole being is becoming a smile….

    We have made SO many breakthroughs recently.

    *Even though he said he would make time for baby 1x wk, I just ask and he makes time whenever he can.. during the daytime anyway. I haven’t asked during a time when he might be wanting to go out on the weekend.

    *I have practiced sharing FM with him A LOT – particularly appreciative ones. I have focused not on what he’s not doing but on what I DO LOVE that he IS doing, and this has been huge. He NOTICED it and Mentioned it! He TOLD me that with me being unhappy about the things he’s been doing (with other women!!?!!!)… that he has felt so unappreciated and like he just can’t do anything right. (And he meant this 100%, I assure you)… I said I had realized this lately, and have been trying to express my appreciation for him more, bc I DO appreciate him, and I realize that he must feel like he can’t do anything right and that’s a horrible feeling, and I feel awful about it too. He loves it.

    *Due to sharing FM with him, I expressed that I felt important and loved when he took time to call me, Because it takes time – and time + attention =quality time.. and now that I had a simplified explanation of exactly what quality time is to me, since I have mentioned it before in the past – (and he says “we Live Together!”.. and I said I need interacting, eye contact, talking, doing things together, etc).. But hearing this simplified version, in FM, he stepped up and invited me to dinner, I stayed overnight, etc – everything was great – then he took a step back (so I think tonight is sort of the same thing). But he made the effort to step up for me!!!!

    *AND, Even though he said we can NOT have a romantic relationship, we have to be friends, work on our friendship etc – I treated the get together as a DATE ANYway, did hair, makeup, got dressed up, expected him to pick me up etc (even tho discussion ended in me choosing my battles and driving this time).. and now he says We can DATE as long as I understand that he is seeing other people.
    (…. My issue the entire time has only been that I don’t feel important and safe. But we will get to that later. I guess we have had to take a step way back for a moment here, before we get to that.) So now we are back to a +romantic+ relationship!

    *yesterday in the kitchen, he said to me… (and this hurt a little) I really wish I could get you to orgasm more easily!! He not only wants to make me feel good, he has opened up to tell me this! …. I said… welll… I do too, but a lot of that is emotional and needing to feel safe! And some of it is physical… and … well I hear that it’s difficult for a LOT of women….. most women?….. and he paused…..quiet…. apparently not in his experience… this is so hard for me – because I really want to make him happy by feeling good. I said this. He said… “I think you shouldn’t put pressure on yourself though, because that will only make it harder”.. and I said yes, that’s true, I do my best to just enjoy it with you.” He said “It seems like you DO” and I said “I Hope it does, because I do, very much enjoy it!!” so it was a good discussion but.. I do wish it were easier for me. I want him to feel like he is pleasing me. BF says the same thing “I don’t know if I ever make you feel as good as you make me feel..”… “I want to make you come again”… sighhh but anyway – I felt so good that he wants me to feel good!

    *other breakthroughs.. he’s calling me more.
    *texted me goodnight msgs over the weekend because of my FM that I like that..
    *texted me again even after my leaning fwd to let me know he wasn’t taking me up on invite to come home that evening, but thank you..
    *Called me in the morning. Has called me a couple times in the mornings, and throughout the day..
    *Has been wayyyy more open and connective, supportive, appreciative and complimentary!!
    *has tried to have sex with me frequently and connected with me more than when he wasn’t open to me and would deny me for days, weeks
    *used the phrase “I’m liking the new you” …(that I have not let this woman affect me anymore, have totally shifted my vibe, even let him use the car today – cause she is nothing. Why didn’t I know this before?
    *I’ve seen him responding to my FM of appreciation by repeating those actions.
    *he assures me that sex with this woman happens so rarely and is not what I think- she is not affectionate, kissy, huggy… etc. (he has said this many times even before.. why?)

    But there have been so many breakthroughs recently. … wow. So fast. The faster I shift my vibe the faster it happens. I am feeling so proud of myself – even if things don’t appear to be perfect every moment, I am doing so well – better and better at leaning back, and growing immensely.

    I didn’t even text him tonight even though he didn’t respond to my last text and didn’t say anything since 6:30 this evening. I feel like being a little bit less available (busy) tomorrow.. not sure – or maybe leaning back is enough.

    Now to keep up my agreement to have taxes finished by the end of the month, and get more $$ coming in from clients to get closer to getting back in financial order…

  200.  #200Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 12:29 am

    The best thing that is helping me when I amuncertain of what to do is Mirroring.

    And just leaning back if I’m not sure bout something.

    Really been helping, esp with me improving my skills on Feeling Messages.

    feeling happy and successful!

    oh yes BF messaged me today…

    told me he broke his lease (crazy landlord in breach of lease…) … and that he has a couple wks to find a new place. I said it’s sad that i didn’t get to see it, but glad he will have somewhere more pleasant to be.

    he said: yeah, it’s ok you didnt see it. it’s full of possibility, but it makes it that much sadder

    not sure if he meant the space was full of possibility to do things with… ? thats what it sounded like.

  201.  #201Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 1:58 am

    Oh, I forgot – also during dinner he was very considerate and kind. He even didn’t mention baby not sitting in his highchair, instead he sat at the table with us on a little baby seat, he also went to the kitchen to get something we forgot – we were sitting at the table, he mentioned that we forgot it, I said “where is it” and he said no you stay there, I’ll go get it, you have your arms full of baby (nursing).

    And then after we ate, he got a text – I didn’t pay any attention, focused on the tv show.. heard him say “so and so’s sweet” – couldn’t tell who he said, just pretended I didn’t hear him.

    Usually such comments intended to peak curiosity are aimed at me to provoke a response, so I ignored it – I thought he had said someone else.

    I never said anything, and so (as usual when I don’t), he mentioned that the text was an invitation by a female friend of ours.. (bugs me that she texts him and not me too but she is completely platonic).. that she and her friend were leaving a crowded bar and coming to a little restaurant on our side of town.. ..

    He said.. “you and baby could come too”

    and I said that would be fun!!

    he said “even with baby?”

    (… i have complained that it is so hard to go out with baby bc I have to chase him around the whole time or hold him.. and I don’t usually get any help either).

    I said yes!! I would love to go.

    he thought about it for a while, but then I asked him if he wanted to go or not, and he said..welll… I don’t have any money right now, I really can’t be spending money. I have money maybe coming in, but I don’t have it yet… … explaining a couple of deals coming in.

    I thanked him for explaining that to me, but that he knows we don’t have to do things that cost money all the time, I am happy either way. (or something like that).

    I said we could invite them over, but we probably didn’t have what they were looking for (to go out and drink)..

    he agreed.. and somewhere we just forgot about it.

    Point being,
    another breakthrough,
    in that where recently he just goes out without me ALL the time and leaves me at home with the baby – both because I have the baby, and as basically a punishment (for not making money).. even tho he will go out and pay for other people, he doesn’t want to pay for me..

    So it was a good sign that he wanted us to go with him — rather than him just leaving us to go out.

    Though we didn’t actually do it…
    but he at least offered, AND he stayed home with me!

  202.  #202Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 2:06 am

    gosh I wish I wasn’t the only one awake.

    Here are some things I’ve been doing Differently.
    (“Change Everything”)

    It’s kind of like feng shui – let your house speak for you. 😉

    my house is communicating that we are doing things differently. things are DIFFERENT.

    I threw everything out of the shower except new things and what I use.

    I bought two delicious new soaps. We have used the same type of soap for years, and it smells delicious and is great on my skin, but I bought new ones. That smell even better.

    I even took MILW’s shaving mirror out and put it in the cabinet. and I didn’t clean it like I always do. I noticed this morning he needed to shave, he did NOT ask where the mirror was, he found it, and he hung it back up in the shower. However, FUNNILY, he hung it in a completely different spot than where it’s been for YEARS. lol.

    I cleaned off the counters in the kitchen and rearranged and redecorated slightly. It feels fresh.

    I cleaned out my client studio space and actually had a client the other day. That felt GREAT, and the space feels WONDERFUL.

    I cleaned up the office a bit, and put out a basket of candy and a basket of fresh fruit, both for aesthetic reasons and to offer to clients.

    I thoroughly vaccuumed every nook and cranny in the house, including the sofa, under the fridge and stove. I washed the covers on the sofa cushions. FRESH.

    I added a new DVD player to the TV.

    I moved our special wine rack to the kitchen, where it looks a hundred times better.

    I cleaned out the cabinet near the door where we keep all kinds of odds and ends. It’s very tidy, organized, and nearly empty now.

    I moved the mirror from the bedroom to the client studio the other day, I bet it threw him off this morning when he got dressed.

    I took the clock down from the kitchen where it’s been for years. now when you look, it isn’t there. lol.

    I started pulling up the rock walkway in the backyard, as it’s on uneven ground and it just doesn’t feel good to me.

    I cut the grass in the backyard (change in routine. I NEVER cut the grass).

    change in attitude about Where I realize that she doesn’t even matter, Only I Matter, He Loves Me, and that’s All that Matters and that’s All I Notice.

    Change in Smell (the new soap).

    New Nailpolish.. for him to look at as he massaged my feet last night!!! 😀 (i have to take it back, it was the OPI kim kardashian line and the glitter was too thick, after I put top coat on, the whole bit just popped off.)

    New Blankets (that belong to a friend of mine)

    New things for baby- pajamas, sippie cups, toys.
    (double points, they were gifts!)

    took EVERYTHING off the front of the fridge– this included vows/poem we re-wrote together for a wedding, photos of us, song lyrics, kid stuff, etc..

    took our photos down for a while…

    then put one framed one on his desk in the office..
    it kinda just landed there while i was cleaning but it seemed like a good spot for it to live.

    Anyway, I am really loving changing things up. It feels great that it throws him off. It forces the energy to feel different, so when he comes back to the house, he can not get stuck in the old web of energy, he has to be in the new one. The new feeling. And communicates that “things are increasingly different”, which therefore it should follow that *I* am increasingly different.

    This week I want to think of:

    More things I can Do Differently
    Things I can say to Appreciate/Praise MILW
    Things that make me feel Goddessy

  203.  #203Lena on February 21, 2012 at 2:20 am

    Hi, everyone

    Report about the progress I made so far…

    I met B on Monday and just made it very clear for myself why I dont like this guy. I was absolutely sure and I was able to move away in a such way it made me smile, giggle and laugh whole day after. I mean I could see exactly why I will never end up with a man like this.

    Actually I started questioning a lot recently even if I really need one in my life… I mean do I really need a man THAT much?

    If I would need him for money… Well, I dont think I will be able to even ask for it. Its nice to have someones support, to be pumpered – yes. But I also want to be someone. Someone great by myself.

    For love and affection? Do I want to be married – yes, I do.

    As for A, whom I just discovered sort of broke up or whatever… He is strange. He txts, he seems to be really happy when we txt each other but there is no action. He sais he is sick, etc. But do I really want to be “understanding” and have excuses of not being able to pick up and call me? No. I mean what kind of a relationship I can have with a guy like that? Like living on two other planets and when the stars are right the two will meet?:)

    Its either he is not that tough as he looks like and maybe waits for me to move or he is “shopping”. Either or – not attractive or smth breathtaking at all… Though really a shame – he was so full of promise:)

    So my tactics – just to move away. Because I dont want to entertain or impress anyone.

    With R… Still not sure about that person at all.

    And all this dating, etc – takes so much time. I dont feel like entertaining all this bunch of people… I think I am hopeless romantic – I just want it “to happen”… Out of the blue – my guy, my man… And I dont have to kiss all the frogs around…

  204.  #204Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 2:35 am

    STS, I still feel confused and overwhelmed when I read your posts (says me with two ex husbands and two children – one from each marriage – with different custody arrangements!) and think you are just amazing because you seem so… calm or something!

    And I love your outlook on life too – I can sense a positive energy from you. I like it! 🙂

  205.  #205Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 2:37 am

    203 Lena – yep I think we can all relate! If only our knights in shining armour were the first guys to appear!

    Oh well, I suppose it’s all about lessons and healing right?


  206.  #206Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 2:43 am

    My dog and I are sitting at home alone right now. It is lovely and peaceful!

    TH is visiting his sister (she lives nearby) because his mother is in town. They’re doing “work” stuff which I believe is why he didn’t invite me down. Plus I had work to do, so I don’t feel bothered at all.

    We’ve had little time together since our relationship took a new direction but we have both been busy, and from tomorrow things should settle down a little.

    Tomorrow at work I am meeting with the manager who has advertised the dream job I am applying for. I’m not sure of her perception of me (we’ve always gotten along but never worked closely together), and I have a question about at least one of the requirements of the job.

    I also want to ask her what her vision is for the team that’s being created so I can get a feel for the direction she wants to go in.

    This job sounds absolutely perfect for me, and whenever I pull out the job description and read it, I get this “This job is MINE!” feeling. I hope I’m right! Haha! But if I don’t get it then I’ll be ok with that too – it’s not like I was even looking before.

    So crossing fingers I give a good impression tomorrow – enough to get an interview when I finally do apply! 🙂

  207.  #207Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 2:47 am

    BW think about how you could make her feel good about herself if she gives you the job.

  208.  #208Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 2:58 am

    OMG FW! I can’t think of what that could be but what an amazing new way of looking at it! Thank you! I’m going to go and think about that very deeply.

    Does anybody here have some ideas on how I can do this?

    Hmmm….. 🙂

  209.  #209Lena on February 21, 2012 at 3:12 am

    Hi, Butterfly Wings

    🙂 Good luck with you “dream job”.

    Eh… I think if you will be just yourself and sincere, show why you deserve this kind of position and positive she will feel very good about herself that she was smart and lucky enough to engage you. Haha!

  210.  #210Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:16 am

    Starla that meditation felt weird, but rokin… its STILL workin for me since this morning

    STOP though, reverse…

    oh yeah baby

  211.  #211Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 3:16 am

    We’ve actually known each other for almost 10 years as she was there when I started, but we’ve never worked closely together. We have come together in meetings though, although I’m not sure of what her opinion of me was from those.

    Argh! I suppose I just need to get out of her head, and know that I’m worthy of the job, sell my strengths (I do have several advantages over ANY other applicant that I can highlight), and hope that they’re worth more than my competition’s. 🙂

  212.  #212Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 3:16 am

    FW –

    “Regarding ATW for some reason I felt a bit disappointed when I read that you had turned him down, what was it, 3 times. I might be wrong on this but I believe that I might have agreed when he asked the 3rd time.”

    Ahh no don’t tell me that it feels sonscary. Really???

    It was only two times.

    He asked me to come over to watch a movie that night first definitely sounds like a sex plan) and than came back with the car plan 4 hours later…

    You really think it’s a bad idea??? Everyone told me they were so proud of me! I don’t want him to feel like I was punishing him… 🙁

    I tols him I was tired and hangover too. Don’t you think he got it that it was not only about him doing somethig wrong??

    I feel so scared and worried now reading your post…

    You think he will stop to step up? But everyone here told me the opposite… I don’t know who I should beliebe…

    I know I shouldn’t “do” anything but still… Is there something I can do to “damage control” ?

    Maybe just send a smiley or a heart or a “thinking of you” ? Suggestions anyone? I don’t want to have break something here… Our relationship was already so new and so weak… 🙁

  213.  #213Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 3:19 am

    I think I’m going to text him this morning (or tonight?) and ask him if we can talk for a few minutes) and tell him about how I feel… Worried, anxious…. Maybe there’s something we can do!

  214.  #214Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 3:24 am

    Lizka, I think you did the right thing by sticking to your boundary, and you did tell him you wanted to look after you that night because you were tired etc.

    His second attempt was definitely him trying to manipulate you into changing your mind (TH is an expert at this!) too. So good on you for sticking to your original plan!

    Yep he’ll be stewing on it for a while, but don’t contact him – he will definitely contact you (if he’s worth it).

    But be ready with some FM’s about how good it feels to have a man in your life who contacts you regularly, and how you’ve felt worried/afriad/whatever with the lack of contact lately.

    I’m not great at FM’s but I’m sure somebody here can improve on that! 🙂

    Be strong Lizka! You may regret leaning forward otherwise!


  215.  #215Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:24 am

    omg my ex best friend had her baby … pic on facebook

    and my best guy friens’ ex is pregnant!


    everyones pregnant

    i cant wait till its my turn!

    sooo excited

    for my four lil people

    to be around me

    ALL the time

    never lonely

  216.  #216Lena on February 21, 2012 at 3:24 am

    Lessons and Healing.

    I was going though the posts here – and I guess I am that one who is controlling. At least when it comes to anger bursts part as form of control – yep…

    I wanted to control things because I couldnt say no. I am still learning how. So you see – thats why the “rejection” part is such a break through to me:) If I dont have this shield – its like I am a magnet. I attract all sorts of people and I totally dont know how to manage it.

    Because I could never decline, was too “understanding” and coldnt clearly set the boundaries to people, my rules – I would do things I dont really feel comfortable about and so I would feel like surrounding consumes me. Its still work in progress.

    My exes literally were eating me up:) I would be totally depended. So I would have no space for myself – I would just give it all away and later I guess I just developed the stone age technique of getting the space back by hitting in the head without the reason. Because asking smth in a soft nice voice practically never worked.

    Its also scary to show people your limits. Because its like you are being selfish and maybe practical, etc. Sometimes it feels like I didnt deserve it – to demand the respect for my rules, boundaries, etc. But it all blows in a different way anyway – this demand. To my life in general. My time, efforts, me.

    I think most of the control freaks are made of the same stuff. Thats why I understand them:) And I also know how much it hurts inside.

  217.  #217Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:24 am

    i was MADE for this!

  218.  #218Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 3:27 am

    Lena, I’m a control freak from way back, and although I’m still getting there, I’ve come a long way from almost two years ago.

    It just takes practise to let go and lean back and just “be”. It is also VERY scary at first!

    But when I do let go of control, TH totally steps up and for once, I don’t need to be the nagging gf! It’s such a wonderful feeling! I just trust that he will do what he says, and just let it go! 🙂

  219.  #219Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Lizka feeling worried that you might lose him and then discussing it will him might only backfire on you. Have faith that he will call you. That was just my impression and as I said I might be wrong. In any event een if he felt punished, it might change into wondering why you did not come with him and that could amp up the attraction. It is a lot of speculation not worthy your energy. No matter what you do if he wants to leave he will. If he wants to stay he will. Giving him the space to make his own decision can only work in your favor.

  220.  #220Ella on February 21, 2012 at 3:30 am

    Emerson, Hopeful, Silver Moonbeam.

    Thank you.

    So I have decided I am not going to offer to read it out…

    I will just continue reading it for myself.

    Its true that what works for me might not work for another person.

    He may be quite able to cut back on his own.

    The book, for those who are interested, is called ‘Kick the Drink Easily’ by Jason Vale.

  221.  #221Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 3:33 am

    Ella having it around, say on your bed, while he is around might spark his interest.

  222.  #222Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 3:40 am

    Lizka if you are going to do anything, think about the 3 guys you met plus ATW bringing you flowers, diamonds, chocolates etc. Think about how you would feel receiving all that and sink into the feeling.

  223.  #223tenny on February 21, 2012 at 3:41 am

    I woke up and I don’t feel any better. Wow, I’m really triggered. I’m not ready to stop CDing. I don’t know if CD assertive is the one. I don’t want this pressure

  224.  #224Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:41 am

    2 great Cds today!

    with the first one, i imposed a short time limit for the first time ever

    it felt uncomfortable

    with the second one . i relaized im a bully = margaret lynch’s enforcer. and i caught myself fidgeting so much and stayed goddessy tghe whoel time

    and noticed i was feelikng insecure

    anad practiced expressing

    and kept myself first

    even when got fidgety and nveey

  225.  #225Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 3:45 am

    tenny are you seeing it as pressure from him? Are you saying that if you are getting engaged or married you would not cdate? Are you sure this is not your fear of intimacy getting triggered?

  226.  #226Lena on February 21, 2012 at 3:49 am

    BW – Eh…

    Its very scary to let go. Things just go wrong:) And not how I am comfortable with.

    And deep inside I feel I wont be wanted, not good enough or smth. To be contacted, taken care of, etc. Creepy thought… Thats why all this trying too hard to be interesting, thoughtful, etc. But it all feels so…fake! And tiring. And very not lady like…

  227.  #227Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:51 am

    my ass just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and rounder and rounder



  228.  #228Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 3:53 am

    Lena do you have any of Rori’s programs? They can help you work on those things, especially letting go of control and feeling like you are good enough. Because you are.

  229.  #229Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 3:56 am

    Thank you BW and FW.

    Almost not feeling worried now. The idea to be ready with a feeling message about how I feel now is a good one. I’ll write down how I feel today and until he contacts me.

    SexyGuy#2 from the club Saturday accepted my FB friend request (yeah I know it was leaning forward to send the request but whatever…) and I woke up with like 10 notifications of him liking my pictures. Cute 🙂

    I’m leaning back now…

    Wondering why DiCaprio (SexyGuy#3) haven’t accept my friend request though… He can not “refuse” it, can’t he?

  230.  #230Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 3:57 am

    Lena, what a coincidence! Right this second I’m writing an article for a client based on people’s fears of not being loved, not being good enough and not belonging!

    It’s these fears which drive our choices and also what holds us back in many cases. Overcoming them is hard, but it can be done! Rori’s tools will definitely help you here.


  231.  #231Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 3:59 am

    I’ve been researching what might be the case for my breathlessness (it kind of disappeared for a day or so after TH and I had our talk on Friday night but came back).

    I found this:

    I know it’s not my asthma that’s causing it cos I’ve taken my medication just in case and no change (I only have mild asthma anyway and it’s usually wheezing – not being short of breath like I am now). So I can only put it down to anxiety.

    And I have been through a lot lately too, so maybe my mind is taking a while to get used to me being happy and calm!? 🙂

  232.  #232Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 4:00 am

    BW I just saw this at the end of a Margaret Lynch email and thought to share it with you.

    “But if I met Tony Robbins tomorrow he would not hold back he would inspire me, challenge me to step up Margaret Lynch would do the same…
    She would look me right in the eye with love and vision and belief in me and ask me OWN MY POWER!

    So Why can’t I do that?! the truth is, I CAN!
    And the world needs me to! YES!”

    That department needs you BW.

  233.  #233Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 4:00 am

    Lizka, some guys just don’t go on FB much, and others just take their time accepting friend requests. I wouldn’t read much into it at this stage.

    Just focus on your beautiful self and get those scripts ready! 😉

  234.  #234Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 4:05 am


    No one wants to talk about it… but everyone is curious about the topic. And, they should be. After all, how often you have a bowel movement says a LOT about your internal health.

    What’s more, if you’re not eliminating enough, it won’t be as easy to lose body flab because it’s a sign that you’re not eating correctly. (Most belly-fighting foods make you poop more.)

    It should take the average person about 20 hours to eliminate after a meal. Therefore, if you’re not pooping at least once a day (some people “go” up to 3 times a day), or if you are pooping small, hard “pebbles” instead of “fluffy logs,” or if you experience constipation, excess gas, or stomach cramps, chances are you need to increase your water, fiber and probiotics intake.

    Speaking of fiber, if you’ve already read my BFF book you know that it’s important to get a good amount of fiber in your daily eating plan. But how much? Here is some information about fiber and flab loss that you never may have realized…

    Did you know that fiber (along with fats and proteins) fights belly flab by slowing down the absorption of sugar in the body and it helps to cleanse the belly bulge (waste) that comes from an overloaded digestive system?

    My top choices for fiber-rich foods:
    Barley has 12 grams per ½ cup
    Beans like black beans, navy beans, refried, and lima beans all have 6 or more grams per ½ cup
    Bran cereal has 13 grams per 3 to ½ cup
    Peas have more than 9 grams per ½ cup
    Corn on the cob has 5 grams per ear
    Strawberries have 4 grams per cup and raspberries have more than 5, and blackberries have more than 7 grams
    Potatoes with the skin—a medium-sized spud has 5 grams
    Broccoli has 7 grams per ¾ cooked cup
    Oatmeal has 7 grams per ¾ cup
    Apples have 4 grams of fiber in the form of pectin
    Dried fruits like figs and pears have more than 10 grams per ½ cup
    I hope you found this information helpful!

    Coach Josh

  235.  #235Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 4:09 am

    Lizka I believe there is an option to not accept it now. Also if he is hot he knows it. I also imagine he gets a lot of friend invites from other girls he meet. He might also not have liked it because he is feeling all the psychic energy you are sending his way? I dunno. If they are friends I also imagine that they have likely spoken about the night’s adventures and you.

  236.  #236Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 4:14 am

    Woooohooooo!! Dicaprio accepted my request AND he’s chattig with me!!!!!!!

  237.  #237Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 4:15 am

    Yayyy Lizka

  238.  #238Lena on February 21, 2012 at 4:27 am

    Hi, FW.

    Yes, I do have some of Roris programs.

    BW –

    Cool. Synced:)

  239.  #239Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 4:32 am

    Lena I believe regularly using the programs and the tools will help with the internal shift.

  240.  #240Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 4:36 am

    Yay Lizka! Way to get your mind of ATW!!! 🙂

  241.  #241Ella on February 21, 2012 at 4:41 am

    FW re 221



  242.  #242Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 4:53 am

    FW, this feels kinda bad to read….

    He might also not have liked it because he is feeling all the psychic energy you are sending his way?

    Aren’t we all sending out psychic energy to the ones we want with our manifestations and water wheels of love, I am the air he needs to breathe? know I do it… I am starting to feel confused where the line is between telling the universe what we want and not thinking about them unless they are right in front of us.

    C texted this morning to see if I got the King Cake for CV’s class today.

    I replied with a picture of the cake. He sent back a ?, so I texted that it’s the cake.

    Then he asked if I was driving her to school. I replied that no, she wanted to show her friend on the bus. He then sent me 3 texts in a row to tell me what a horrible idea that was. What if she trips, haven’t I ever ridden a bus?

    So I calmly replied that I offered and drove her to the bus stop. It’s really light, more like a donut than a cake.

    He replied ok.

    I REALLY wanted to reply don’t you think I know what I’m doing? Can’t you trust me that I can make a smart decision or do what is best for my daughter? Do you think I’m selfish or something and don’t want to drive her 3 minutes to school?

    I get triggered really easily when I feel judged or criticized as a mother.

    Instead I sent this:

    I asked her several time and she said she was fine, she was getting frustrated with me and said she could handle it. She doesn’t like being babied about school. The box wasn’t huge or anything, I think she’ll be fine.

    I do realize there are no feeling messages in my response, but I have shared with him many times that I feel judged and criticized and like a bad mom when he acts that way.

    I wanted to keep it more matter of fact. She’s fine, didn’t want me to take her, I believe she’ll be fine.

    I am starting to feel really stressed. I don’t want to have to think about every word that comes out of my mouth as a feeling. I don’t think every situation calls for that. I really don’t want to have to speculate waht his response will be.

    This is hard. So much of our interactions are based on the kids, and it is important that we feel relaxed and that we can share in it…. I know feeling messages help with that. It’s just that most of what we do/say is about them, which is why I like sleeping with him and the conversations that come after, as they are about us. I have to find out how to balance this all out. There needs to be more about us too.

  243.  #243Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 4:53 am

    FW, this feels kinda bad to read….

    He might also not have liked it because he is feeling all the psychic energy you are sending his way?

    Aren’t we all sending out psychic energy to the ones we want with our manifestations and water wheels of love, I am the air he needs to breathe? know I do it… I am starting to feel confused where the line is between telling the universe what we want and not thinking about them unless they are right in front of us.

    C texted this morning to see if I got the King Cake for CV’s class today.

    I replied with a picture of the cake. He sent back a ?, so I texted that it’s the cake.

    Then he asked if I was driving her to school. I replied that no, she wanted to show her friend on the bus. He then sent me 3 texts in a row to tell me what a horrible idea that was. What if she trips, haven’t I ever ridden a bus?

    So I calmly replied that I offered and drove her to the bus stop. It’s really light, more like a donut than a cake.

    He replied ok.

    I REALLY wanted to reply don’t you think I know what I’m doing? Can’t you trust me that I can make a smart decision or do what is best for my daughter? Do you think I’m selfish or something and don’t want to drive her 3 minutes to school?

    I get triggered really easily when I feel judged or criticized as a mother.

    Instead I sent this:

    I asked her several time and she said she was fine, she was getting frustrated with me and said she could handle it. She doesn’t like being babied about school. The box wasn’t huge or anything, I think she’ll be fine.

    I do realize there are no feeling messages in my response, but I have shared with him many times that I feel judged and criticized and like a bad mom when he acts that way.

    I wanted to keep it more matter of fact. She’s fine, didn’t want me to take her, I believe she’ll be fine.

    I am starting to feel really stressed. I don’t want to have to think about every word that comes out of my mouth as a feeling. I don’t think every situation calls for that. I really don’t want to have to speculate waht his response will be.

    This is hard. So much of our interactions are based on the kids, and it is important that we feel relaxed and that we can share in it…. I know feeling messages help with that. It’s just that most of what we do/say is about them, which is why I like sleeping with him and the conversations that come after, as they are about us. I have to find out how to balance this all out. There needs to be more about us too.

  244.  #244Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 4:58 am

    Lizka YEAH!!!! And Don’t contact ATW. You set your boundary for a good reason. There is nothing wrong with telling someone no. You don’t have to do what they want when they want, just because they want it.

    I would even say no to advance plans if they didn’t sound good to me.

  245.  #245Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:00 am

    Hmmmm he didn’t chat long cause he was going to bed after working all night on a project. But he was cute and asked about my training for marathon…

    Indeed, good way to keep focus on something else than ATW!!

    I have to admitt that I was not 100% sireny during this chit chat but I’ll do better next time!

  246.  #246Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:02 am

    Thank you Turquoise!! I feel so excitef about this new guy that I’m not really worrying about ATW anymore. 🙂

  247.  #247Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 5:04 am


    May I ask what was your no gfriend speech and how long you are dating assertive CD and how close you are?

  248.  #248Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 5:06 am

    Turquoise I think of the waterwheel and those other tools as energy coming towards me.

  249.  #249Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 5:09 am

    Lizka with regard to the chat I believe that the key is if you let him go when he wanted to, rather than trying to prolong the chat is what is important. It is key in seeing how much you pay attention to your intuition rather than the urgency to impress him, if there was such an urgency. Remember also we are practicing how to be with men so that it works for us.

  250.  #250Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 5:10 am

    Turquoise, I hate it when TH tries to tell me what to do too – and they’re not even his girls!! Drives me nuts and it takes all of my self restraint to not lash out and tell him to butt out!

    I totally feel your pain there!

  251.  #251Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 5:12 am

    ROFL! I’m not going to give details here cos he will KILL me, but TH has just done something kind of embarrassing, and I laughed at him – a lot!

    He was saying “Stop it!” while smiling and he made me promise not to tell anyone… I’m still laughing as I type this. Where’s my camera when I need it??


    Fun times!

  252.  #252Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 5:12 am

    Ok, so I just realized the pic. of the cake didn’t go through in my text to him, so I sent this… and it was also my attempt to sound a little lighter. If I take things more lightly, maybe he’ll mirror me and lighten up the mood too.

    Oh I just saw that the picture of the cake didn’t come through. I sent it when you asked if I got it. Thanks for caring and asking about it. I was worried about her on the bus too… but it was really light, so should be ok.

  253.  #253Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 5:13 am

    Turquiose I believe your response to him was good. I would encourage you next time to include something about how proud you are of her for wanting to take responsibility for her life and how confident you feel about her handling it seeing she feels so motivated about doing it. Give yourself the space to show your sensitivity to her feelings also and share your feelings about something less scary.

  254.  #254Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 5:13 am

    I like what you said Turquoise!

  255.  #255Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:16 am

    But now I have some kind of an issue.

    Nothing has happen yet but before getting in trouble, I’d like to get some advices from you sirens…

    Now the 3 sexy guys know how to contact me if they want to invite menon a date. But what if the 3 of them invite me??

    Not that I’m afraid to date 3 guys at the same time, it would be actuay amazing to add THREE guys to my rotation. But these 3 guys are friends so I don’t know what I shoulddo if the situation happens…

    I have 3 options that I thought about… Can you tell me wich one you think is the best or if you want to add to one or even suggest a new option?

    So lets say the 3 sexy guys (or 2 of them) invite me out…

    OPTION 1 : I could go with every 3 guys on only a 1st date and than choose who I want to continue dating in those who keep stepping up after the 1st date… This ia my favorite option because I get to know the 3 of them but what if the talk to each other and realise I went on a date with each of them? Wouldn’t I look a little easy?

    OPTION 2 : I just accept the first invitation even if it’s from my second or third favorite and I give up on the 2 others without taking the chance to know them…

    OPTION 3 : I focus on my now favorite and say no to the 2 others if they invite me but I risk ending up with zero CD since the one I prefere might not invite me…


  256.  #256Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 5:16 am

    Thanks BW 🙂 Glad you understand. It’s so hard not to get frustrated, but I am going to work on that… as that exchange of frustrated energy is big for us… we respond and react to each other, and it usually makes a bigger deal out of things than needs to be.

    Ok, I must get ready for work!!!! 🙂

    FW, hmmm…. I feel that I’m sending out energy and taking it in. I am going to focus on it next time, see where it feels it’s going more.

  257.  #257Peaches on February 21, 2012 at 5:17 am

    246 Yay Lizka!!! Think about new FB man, instead of ATW..yes, be your true siren…

    206 BW..dream job is yours!!…..and is breathlessness anxiety about meeting the manager tomorrow or stress reaction from your big week?? Either way, breathe, imagine yourself in THAT job….sending you good vibes 🙂

  258.  #258Liz on February 21, 2012 at 5:23 am

    Good morning
    Thank-you so much Silver Moonbeam and Emerson for feeling sad for me. It brought healing tears to my eyes.
    I am intending to feel choice around sexual attention now and just drink it in when i want.

    Thanks for hearing me. This is not something that i can really talk about and i felt heard and hugged energetically.

  259.  #259Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:25 am

    FW 249 –

    Oh don’t worry I let him go when he said he was off to bed. Well it went like that:

    Him: True 🙂 [to a joke I made about our hard to pronounce names] just going to bed now, was working on a project. The night is the most productive time for me. How’s the marathon preparation?

    Me: Hmmm haven’t run on Sunday because I was feeling a little hangover and it was a very important training… Will catch up tomorrow :s

    Me again: Im off to work. Good night! Hope we can talk soon 😉

    So I don’t think it’s that bad. When I said I wasent totally sireny it’s mostly about the “Hope we can talk soon”.

    But is it really that bad? What do you think?

  260.  #260Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 5:28 am

    Lizka that is the reason why I don’t like being friends with cds on facebook. I don’t know what to tell you because these guys are friends. I might only consider one if it were me assuming that they will eventually talk about their dates. Though some guys, depending on their intentions, will all try to date you seeing which of them will score. The thing is keeping the focus on you, what you want, and taking care of yourself.

  261.  #261Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:29 am

    Hi Peaches!!!!!! Thank you!! How are you doing today? 🙂

  262.  #262Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 5:31 am

    Lizka maybe you could change it with I am feeling a bit rushed or busy right now because I am going to work?

    It doesn’t matter how it went it is over now. Just time now to look at your words and how to tweak them towards feeling messages for next time. I think it was okay. It was the first time, mistakes are part of the process anyway.

  263.  #263Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 5:33 am

    Errr I feel like I am on a leash and he knows it. Like now that we are intimate I am not going anywhere and am completely at mercy of his attention. I hate this feeling!

  264.  #264Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:34 am

    260 FW I agree dating only one is safer.

    But I don’t understand about Facebook? What does it changes that we are Facebook friends? I met them in real life, and 3 of them were with me at the after party so they know I know them all 🙂

    So what should I do than? Accept the 1st invitation even if it’s not from my favorite or take the risk to wait from my favorite to invite me even if he might never do it?

  265.  #265Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 5:41 am

    He texted me back, “Cake looks great. Good job!”

    I replied back. “Thanks. I got it at the grocey store. :)”

  266.  #266Peaches on February 21, 2012 at 5:42 am

    Hi Lizka…I am ok today – thanks for asking.

    I’m still no contact (going for a record here now!)….although I did have a dream about him last night. It made me feel like he’ll be back. I don’t know if I can trust that or if its wishful thinking or even fear, but it doesn’t matter…..i will know what to do if and when it happens, and going on past experience, it could be months away!

    Why thats important to me is I don’t often remember my dreams, and they usually have a message for me that is right or a deep truth….so I’ve learned to trust them. That doesn’t mean focus or obsess on it….just a knowing…and thats ok. Its nothing big, nor small, it just is.

    Yeah….I’m getting to ok….. 🙂
    And hopefully, it won’t be long before I’m great! 🙂

  267.  #267Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 5:46 am

    Yay Peaches I’m happy to read that! Of course you wont’t be alone for long. Look at you Australian blond bomb!!!! 🙂

  268.  #268light heart on February 21, 2012 at 5:47 am

    hi all, thought I’d share this with you, and as always, I’d love to hear any comments you might have to share…

    Been pretty serious and consistent about practicing taking care of me, and sticking to my boundaries with a CD that I spent a lot of time with over the past year and a half, made a lot of mistakes with, but he says he only has good memories…


    we met for a couple of hours a few weeks ago, for the first time in almost three months, because he suggested we do a project together,

    since then he’s been trying to get together with me again by inviting me to visit him at work, which I don’t want to do, or drive to his place late at night, which I don’t want to do, and all without a lot of notice — the afternoon before, at the most.

    First of all, I often feel annoyed that there are no attempts by him to call me on the phone, to ask, or to discuss our project, or ask me how I am, how’s work, nothing. It’s all by text and e-mail.

    I don’t feel comfortable with delivering a feeling message about how, while I love getting his texts and emails, it would feel so good to hear his voice. In this case, it just feels like jumping through a hoop, so I’m not doing it.

    I did enough of that. So, now I’m mirroring. that feels right.

    I’m so proud of myself for scheduling my time with all kinds of great activities, and not changing my schedule for these last minute invites….and also for telling him that while it might be fun to get together with him for a visit again, I have my work schedule, going out more, classes, etc. etc, and my week gets booked up pretty quickly

    so what does he do ? He continues to wait til the last minute to ask, even when I suggested a plan ahead…..and I always have something else scheduled, so….we don’t get to see each other, because I’m not changing my plans.

    Every time this happens, my frustration, as well as my attraction, my hope, for something with him gets less and less…YAY for not self-abandoning!!

    I have NO idea what his deal is, if he truly wants to see ME, or is just looking for company– it is really none of my business, (even though my intuition awareness tells me he is still recovering from being hurt with other women, and he may just be plain scared, kind of like how Brenda described about Ryan), he might even be self-sabotaging,

    he has minimal responsibilities other than looking out for himself,

    no matter…he has to be willing to look at his own blind spots…

    in the meantime, if HE doesn’t care enough to plan ahead, because both he and I know that he knows that I’m joyfully living a full and vibrant life for myself — am not waiting around to make my plans based on if he, or any one, contacts me or not, then why should ‘I’ care or worry that he’ll run away, if I have to turn him down? It only serves for me to get my hopes up and then be disappointed — again.
    And that feels cr8ppy!

    and also, this thing with only texts and emails, no phone calls… unsatisfying….well, as I said, I’m practicing, and there’s lots of juicy stuff to practice… and I am sticking by my boundaries, no matter what !!

    light heart

  269.  #269Peaches on February 21, 2012 at 6:08 am

    aww thanks Lizka! I feel happy to hear that 🙂

  270.  #270light heart on February 21, 2012 at 6:30 am

    oh yes, the vortex!
    …. reaching for the best possible thought about the situation at hand, instead of focusing on what is bad about it, getting so much more clear on what you do want, based on seeing more what you don’t want, but not using the contrast as an excuse to stay stuck in that place of lack…wanting something because you do not have it, rather, to come from the place of ‘I really want this, because, wouldn’t it just be so much FUN ?


    light heart

  271.  #271light heart on February 21, 2012 at 6:32 am

    LOA thoughts….
    Your source energy vibe is where all the good stuff is….there… and waiting, as it always has, and always will…. for you….and when your vibe matches your source energy vibe, that is when you are in the vortex, and you can best attract what you most desire,
    what is for your highest and greatest good…

    when your vibe doesn’t match the frequency of the excitement that source energy vibrates when you become aware of a desire, for example– you are fixated in lack, poor me, why isn’t this person doing what I want them to do, etc.,….that is when you feel the disconnect, the resistance…

    light heart

  272.  #272Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 6:47 am

    I feel really confused about Jack CD. One of his CDs just randomly started dating a mutal friend of Jack CD and mine. Ever since then, this girl who used to date Jack CD and now is in a relationship with our guyfriend has been acting super weird around me.

    She tries to hide it and is nice to me, but whenever I enter a room, her first glance shows this hostility or jealousy or something. It’s super weird. Her issue, I know, but it’s just weird.

    Jack CD has also been acting weird. I didn’t hear from him for two weeks (not cool) and then when I ran into him, it was like he was angry at me.

    (Clearly we’re having some issues with not communicating.)

    I tried to talk to him about it later, light-heartedly, and he seemed fine, but he wouldn’t even admit to being angry. I know better…

    I know I was acting weird around him after that instance. Weird as in, I was kind of avoiding him and didn’t want to be around him.

    I just needed some space. I don’t feel safe around him all the time, simply because I never know what to expect. I really need to feel safe.

    I’ve been told by men that they never know what to expect from me. I behave inconsistently.

    It’s true. Sometimes I’m aggressively flirtatious. Sometimes I’m quiet and I lean back. Sometimes, I’ll act like I only want to be friends (but only because that’s how I’m genuinely feeling in that moment.)

    I realize that I’m at that point with Jack CD where I usually really start pushing “the guy” away, whoever he is. I never start pushing them away until a certain point, (I guess where it feels like he’s really starting to care about me or like I’m really starting to care about him.) I have to stop doing that.

    I need to keep being open and I need to keep using feeling messages…I’ve noticed myself closing myself off again and trying to protect myself.

    It’s a lot more difficult than I was expecting…

  273.  #273Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 7:18 am

    I’ve also noticed that I rarely feel safe when I’m alone with any man. I have no idea why…

  274.  #274Mochaberri on February 21, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Morning Sirens!! I beleive that I had an ephipany and wanted to share with you all and get your feedback to see if I’m on the right track.

    What I’m learning from you all, Rori Raye, Christian Carter, Jonathan Ashley and Alexndra Fox just to name a few is that based on my recent posts about my relationship dynamics with KR and how to change them to get what I want and deserve is this:

    Do not continue to tell him that I don’t want to be friends and try to cut him off emotionally because that causes more pain but to lean back and not chase him by calling and doing things that come off as “I only want to be friend”. Be his friend as suggested by Alexandra Fox by listening – really listening and not over analyze things and letting him talk about whatever he wants to.This will create a strong friensdhip and build trust. If he brings up his feelings about the state of our relationship and the past issues that brought us here – simply say “OK I understand” and “I’ve moved on from that and don’t want to dicuss it any more because it makes me feel bad and uncomfortable and I don’t want to feel that way with you…I want to feel good about this time we’re takling/spending together…what do you think?”
    Give him space by working with his pace to develop things. Even though my biological clock is ticking loudly – I’m 40.

    Be open to him when he does reach out and use feeling messages; create distance by leaning back when bad behavior shows up as I posted in my previous comments and use feeling messages to reinforce my boundaries as suggested by Bob Grant.

    Do the things that make me the confident person he fell in love with by focusing my attention on other things and date myself, practice with other men by dating and communicating with them, and not talk about if we can go back to the commiment we were in. These tools are to build me up and allow me to not focus on him and put pressure or give ultimatiums and push him away.

    Continue to work on being my best self which will inspire and not try to convince him by offering explanations trying to get see things and understand them.

    He is entitled to feel the way his feels and express his opinion and that it has nothing to do with me.

    What do you think??

  275.  #275Ella on February 21, 2012 at 7:58 am

    MWC has not been in touch yet today.

    I am feeling quite shaky cus of the stuff that has been happening.

    I feel afraid that he might just drop the ball cus there keep being issues!

    Although we are handling them well in terms of communication, non blaming etc… 🙂

    He had invited me to stay at his tonight and then spend the day together tomorrow (we both have a day off and have a date planned for the evening).

    Then all the stuff about alcohol came up and we were dealing with that.

    And I don’t know if the invite is still there.

    I feel kinda weird and out there not knowing and not hearing from him.

    I want to go and stay with him tonight.

  276.  #276Ella on February 21, 2012 at 8:01 am

    I am having some ME time right now.

    Taking care of myself.

    Tonight I am going to the pub after Zumba to meet my friends, who are going to the quiz there.

    MWC doesn’t know that.

    I am feeling quite weird, shaky and unsure without contact from him today.

    He did send a goodnight text last night which I did not reply to as it was late.

  277.  #277Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 8:09 am

    I think Dicaprio has a girl friend…

    Lot of pictures with a girl on his Facebook… But he’s not listed as “in a relationship”.

    How do find out? Suggestions?

    Do I prepare a FM for next time we talk? If how should it be? I feel curious, is that your gf? She looks pretty…

    Can I ask a friend we have in common? Is that risky and creepy?

  278.  #278Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 8:25 am

    “The beauty of life is to experience yourself.” ~ Yogi teabag

  279.  #279Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 8:42 am

    Light Heart,

    RE: #268 – Have you tried this feeling message?

    “It would feel so good to see you! But I’m booked until Thursday. What do you think?”

    Then if he does it again without planning ahead, say, “Oh, it would feel so good to see you! But I’m booked until Sunday!”

    If he says, “I’m getting the message you don’t want to see me.”

    Say, “Ooh, that feels weird to hear! I don’t feel that way AT ALL! I’d LOVE to see you. It’s just that I have a very full life.”

    I think that was in Commitment Blueprint.

  280.  #280Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 8:45 am


    RE: #277 – This is where I don’t like facebook. It just isn’t natural and organic. If it were me, I don’t think I would ask him, at least not directly.

  281.  #281Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Lizka I believe it is all risky and creepy – maybe stalking is what I would truly describe it as. I’ve been there and done that myself. It is crazy making and not worth your energy. I would encourage you not to put your energy into landing any one particular guy but focus more on building your dating rotation so that you have options

  282.  #282Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Mocha sounds like a solid plan to me.

  283.  #283Starla on February 21, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Brenda, you know you called me nasty a few times, sending me sarcastic, demanding emails, and then you saying you don’t even want to make up with me…oh yeah and you unfriend me from facebook

    so I said I’m not sure how to respond yet.

    and you ask ME why I dislike you so much?

    Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. But since you asked, I’ll tell you what my deal is. You are really not going to like it, but I know I can’t be the only one thinking it, so maybe it would be good to just be honest with you.

    Reading about Ryan, and reading the toxic, unhealthy emails you send me about suicidal people, and hearing from multiple Sirens over the years about how you went completely bat sh*t crazy on them

    but mostly reading about Ryan……

    makes me worry that one day we’re going to hear about a man named Ryan who went missing and ended up in a woman named Brenda’s basement, tied up and having his skin cut off for her new winter coat.

    Because your reaction to my short email, of shutting off the computer and going to bed and crying yourself to sleep, and then saying you felt unsafe to post here (um you emailed me asking me to take a suicidal guy under my wing, wanna talk about unsafe??) is NOT a proportionate emotional reaction. It makes me want to run the other way from you. Maybe I’m completely off base, but yeah, you come off as like fatal attraction dangerous when you send emails like that and unfriend me on facebook and call me nasty and act like this asking me why I dislike YOU so much, so I’m not sure how to proceed from here. I know this will make you feel bad, but you honestly come off like that to me, especially after everything I went through with you via email. And that wasn’t the first time you emailed me about dramatic blog stuff, nor the first time you got P*SSED at me because you didn’t like what I had to say.

    And you’re probably not actually psycho like that, and you seem to have a tremendously huge heart, but that’s just the feeling I get because of how things seem to go with you, basically like a pattern at this point.

    I would feel good just posting on the blog together. We all deserve good relationships, and we all deserve this space to work on achieving that.

    The last thing I want to say is that I often feel ‘fatal attraction crazy’ myself, and like I’m being victimized when I’m just making it all worse. It’s ruined a lot of good relationships, so I’m not all perfect here. In fact, one of the reasons I see the “crazy” so clearly is because it’s in me too. Just to be fair(er) to you.

  284.  #284Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Turquoise – maybe not mention about the grocery store, it feels explainy to me. I am getting used to saying something like “thanks. I feel proud of the choice I made or proud of myself for finding that one” or some variety of that.

  285.  #285Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 8:59 am


    ” I would encourage you not to put your energy into landing any one particular guy but focus more on building your dating rotation so that you have options”

    I understand what you mean but it’s not really helping me. Dicaprio IS a potential CD and I don’t want to focus on him but he was very nice and flirty to me when I met hom so I kind of have to know before it goes too far… No?

  286.  #286Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Starla please I beg you, keep in mind that you always have a choice. You can choose to engage with someone or not to engage with them. I know you say you like to debate but it is very masculine and I am teaching my daughter not to do it with my son. Please keep the focus on yourself and don’t allow yourself to be dragged into any drama. I believe you have been doing so great so far. You can choose to step away.

  287.  #287Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Lizka it can’t go anywhere unless he puts energy towards you. So far you are the one putting it out towards him. You sent him the friend request.

  288.  #288Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Even married men will be flirty with you depending on your energy in the moment.

  289.  #289Starla on February 21, 2012 at 9:04 am

    FW, you don’t have to “beg” anything of me…why are you begging? such a strong word.

  290.  #290Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Lizka can all 3 read what is written on your wall? Can they know if one or two of them is talking or flirting with you?

  291.  #291Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Starla I feel fearful because of your last post.

  292.  #292Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Sirens, if you are in the Montreal area, I have a wonderful Energy Practionner here who is amazing at massages and energy work. Every time, no matter how bad my situation is, I always walk out feeling into my normal self and fully open and relaxed. It has helped me tremendously.

  293.  #293Starla on February 21, 2012 at 9:17 am

    FW, you’re feeling afraid of me?

  294.  #294VW on February 21, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Oh my gosh…another one…

    I feel kinda scared and overwhelmed…:( A guy appears so interested in me…it freaks me out…it reminds me again of all men I’ve met lately…that show sooo much interest in the beginning…and then…i have this imagine…it would all fade away…

    I realized I am not ready for “love”…the good part this guy is long distance…so, i told him this morning…”friendship” okay…i am not ready for anything romantic…


    i feel kinda stocked…He is liking everything i do on FB…:( wow…i am not that used it i guess…and i don’t like it that much…


    i will ponder over these fears…obviously, feels like anxiety…

  295.  #295Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 9:28 am

    FW they can read my wall but none of them is flirtin with me on my wall!! Oh my gosh no!! We do that in private message! Lol!!!

  296.  #296Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Afraid “for” you Starla.

  297.  #297Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Yes Lizka but they are friends and they will talk. The possibility exists that they could share the conversation with each other. Maybe it is just me but I don’t like the idea of dating or flirting with friends.

  298.  #298Starla on February 21, 2012 at 9:31 am

    ohhh wow FW, i feel really cared about, thank you.

  299.  #299Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:35 am

    FM’s for breakup prevention (as promised) : (I have taken bits and pieces from you all, FW, SM, and other Sirens here)

    I feel sad and dissapointed. I want to feel safe and solid in a relationship so I can let myself melt all over the man I am with and keep my heart open, like I have always done with you.

    But I love myself more. I feel hopeful and I have faith.

    I have felt lonely and have felt some feelings for a man I ran into (BIG RISK) and I realized I feel kept away from your heart. I so want to stay open to feel and relish in that feeling, this situation feels so sad. But I respect your choice (he says he feels sad too).

    I just want to experience wonderful moments, not just talk about our relationship. But right now I feel bad and I want to feel good with you (he says me too)

    Going away with you would have felt so good. I would be so happy. But I respect you and your thoughts. I am open to new adventures, I need to feel this, it’s my truth to take care of me.

  300.  #300Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Then, we talked about what he wants, what I want, exclusivity and said ‘we’re back on’ after saying we both feel sad of this situation.

    Friday night, he said ‘let’s go to NY City instead’. I let him CONVINCE me.

    I leant back so far when I was there, he was kissing me and I was practically falling over behind, he had to hold me with his arms to not fall backwards!!!

  301.  #301Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 9:37 am

    @274 Mochaberri – I love this. Sounds great. Good for you! Thank you for posting it, as I feel like it is extremely helpful to me. 🙂

  302.  #302Starla on February 21, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Siren Angel, that’s pretty awesome. Your vibe feels amazing in those messages, in my opinion.

  303.  #303Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Then, we had an amazing weekend, he paid for almost everything (hotel was paid by him). We had always shared the costs in the past.

    We were both in awe with NY.

    He did everything to pack our weekend with wonderful experiences: dinners, MOMA, walk in Central Park, another exhibit, just walking on Times Square, the Chinese district and markets, Soho, took the subway to different places and restaurants.

  304.  #304Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:42 am

    And, I had been telling myself last week that I am a goddess, I even posted it here.

    And you know what he said to me on Friday night when I arrived at this place, one of the 1st things he said was ‘You are a Goddess’.


  305.  #305Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:43 am

    There were more FMs, but basically I just let him feel that it was all his choice, and he opened up!

  306.  #306Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 9:43 am

    @ 294 VW – feels good to read that someone gets freaked out when men show too much interest! I thought I was the only one…:)

  307.  #307Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 9:44 am


    RE: #283 – Your last paragraph is about the only true thing you wrote. I am the most gentle person you will ever meet. I am the one you will see in the middle of a 4 lane, divided highway scooping a dozen of baby ducklings into her backpack to keep them from being killed.

    I am the one you will see lifting a 150 lb yearling buck off the middle of the highway in the middle of the night whose limbs are broken while he remains fully alive, after driving 45 minutes each way to drop her dogs off at home. Then driving 1.5 hours each way to take the deer to a wildlife rehab, knowing he will probably just be put down.

    I am the one you will see following the 18 year old, 200 lb guy around asking him to talk to me, as he punches a chain link fence until his fist is bloody. Then confides in me as he has no other staff member that his father stood him in front of a tree and played Russian roulette with him when he was 6..

    I am the one you will see who, after being lured into psychological abuse and led to believe she was about to be proposed to, to the point where she was sui*cidal for two days, continued to show radical, unconditional love to the man.

    I am the one you will see who will risk her freedom, reputation, job, and very life to peacefully block the doors to keep unborn children from being mur*dered.

    Do I have anger issues? Sure. I yell and swear. And I have 2 years worth of posts on here to prove that not only am I working on it, but I am making huge progress. I have never acted out on my anger, other than punching a pillow or a bed. I simply yell and swear when I am mad.

    I am posting those emails. My sole intent was to help a man who felt suic*idal. I wrote you because I was concerned you would be harsh with him on the blog, since you don’t like men on the blog.

    I just want to pass on to you what I posted on Siren Island:

    RE: DAVID on the blog. Look ladies, this is not our norm, but I am going to use the benefit of this space to ask you all to please be supportive of David! I ended up talking with him on the phone last night. He is absolutely heartbroken that he lost his woman, and he is doing everything in his power to get her back. He is for real, and he is su*icidal.

    He just moved 2000 miles away from her, as they had planned to move together just before they broke up. Please don’t let him know I told you guys this but I really think this man needs support right now.

    Sincerely, Brenda

    Starla: Brenda, if he suicidal he needs to be under psychiatric care, not on siren island. Just my two cents

    Brenda: He’s a human being, even if he does have a penis. Just my two cents. ( said that because I know you don’t like men on the blog)

    B: Here’s the thing…if you go online looking for a male relationship coach, as if you were a man, you would find virtually nothing that helps you deal with pain and rebuilidng a relationship. Most of the stuff for men is for pick up artist shit.

    Can you give compassion to HIS weak parts?

    S: Excuse me…I feel pissed. I don’t want to be emailed off the blog being told how to relate to other posters. Second of all, he is MENTALLY ILL. Don’t email me sarcastic comebacks trying to diminish the fact that someone is so sick in the head they want to DIE. Nowhere did I say I don’t have compassion for him, and I really, really don’t want to talk to you when you put words in my mouth like that, over something so serious as SUI*CIDE. Actually, I’d like to see him get better with a real doctor, rather than pretending to be a vet and adopting him like a puppy. This is toxic and unhealthy and I’d like to be left alone now.

    S: Ack, I got very defensive. I meant what I said, but suicide is a seriously triggering issue for me, and I probably came off much harsher than I meant; just trying to protect myself and others. See you on the blog.

    I appreciate your apology, and I remain feeling shut down and hurt, and I don’t want to feel that way with you. When I received your email, I shut off my computer and went to bed and cried. Part of that was because I was already feeling ultra sensitive on Valentine’s Day with no call from Ryan. This is the first I’ve turned on my computer since then, and I don’t feel safe with you right now at all.

    Are you open to discuss this? If so, would you prefer to discuss it by email or the blog?

    S: No let’s not email any more, thank you for asking. I like to maintain some sort of boundaries and these emails totally crossed it. There’s no reason not to keep this stuff on the blog. That’s where I posted.

    Starla, I clearly stated that the main reason I was crying was because it was Valentine’s Day and I hadn’t heard from Ryan. What you said put salt in an open wound. It was just really bad timing.

  308.  #308Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Thank you Starla! 🙂

    It is hard work to stay in that vibe though, I had to really catch myself to stay leaned back. I am sure I was not perfect and can recount a few times when I leaned forward, but all in all it felt good and I felt like the receiver and him the giver.

  309.  #309Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:50 am


    Do you think that when you are in bed ready to doze off with a man, it is leaning forward to go towards him to go into his arms to sleep?

    I have tried to stop myself from going to his arms and waited for him to take me in his arms instead, it works but not always. Then I feel sad for not initiating the sleeping in each other’s arms and feel a little stupid to wait for him to take me in his arms. I wonder if this (being the one that goes towards the other person to sleep in each other’s arms) is leaning forward or if it actually being a cactus to NOT expect that in body language.

    Any thoughts on this? your experiences?

  310.  #310Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 9:51 am


    I also meant to say that I unfriended you on FB because I do not feel emotionally safe with you. I don’t remain friends with people on FB if I sense that they do not have my best interests in mind.

    I would have never taken a personal email and aired it to the world if you had stated that you cried yourself to sleep. I felt violated.

    Technically, I was breaking David’s trust by sharing with the women about him being sui*cidal. But I was operating by the justification defense, that I was doing a greater good. My INTENTION was to help him and protect him.

    What was your intention in airing that he was sui*cidal on the blog?

    I feel violated and I think David was violated.

    Suppose for a moment that I had sent those emails to a trained counselor. How would she have responded?

  311.  #311Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:52 am

    (((LIZKA))) that is horrible for the news about your friend. I am sorry for your loss. Are you ok?

  312.  #312VW on February 21, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Iamabutterfly #306:

    Aww…fabulous 🙂

    I just had another txt me his devoted love…lol…wassup today? Gosh, i need to express appreciation somehow……but, how can i do that when i am f*king freaking out…the last one i’ve known for a while, but we haven’t seen each other in over a year…just been talking the past few months on and off…he now leaves in CA…and plans on coming up soon…

  313.  #313Starla on February 21, 2012 at 9:56 am

    I *never* gave you permission to post my private emails publicly. I hope you’ll consider this in your future interactions off-blog with other sirens. I know this has happened before me with a couple other sirens, too.

  314.  #314Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 9:56 am

    (((BRENDA))) (((STARLA)))

    I support my sisters.

  315.  #315Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 10:01 am


    One thing that bugs me, really bugs me, is this:

    I ‘checked in’ on FB to NY city, then Central Park. When we arrived in NY (mistake 1) I asked if I could ‘tag’ him in NY. He said yes, thinking it was on a pic. It didnt work well, so I gave up and did not tag him. Then on our way back, I tried to tag him, I found how, and then he said he ‘prefer not to be tagged’. I know it worked, but he must have deleted the tag.

    What do you think??? I am worried about this, that he is keeping our relationship and being together a little secret on FB…

  316.  #316Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 10:02 am

    I feel grateful that M is stepping up.

    I am ‘The One’.

  317.  #317Starla on February 21, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Thanks Siren Angel:)

  318.  #318Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 10:05 am

    @312 VW – what did he say to text you his devoted love? or did he just text you “wassup today?” and you were being sarcastic when you said “his devoted love?” I feel confused. Oops! 🙂

    if you give me more info, I might could come up with some good feeling messages for you. I’m pretty good at giving feeling message advice…:)

  319.  #319Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 10:09 am

    FW –

    Yeah i understand now…

    Anyway I think I’ll just go with the flow and be nice with them when they talk to me and lean back and accept the first invitation when it comes…

    About Dicaprio, if he talks to me on Faceboom I’ll be warm and open and the conversation will probably come one day about the girlfriend or no girlfriend and will keep going with the flow.

    Does that sounds like a good plan?

  320.  #320Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 10:16 am


    RE: #313 – You’re kidding, right??!! You posted a slanted version of what we discussed and expected me to just let everyone assume the worst of me?? When you posted what you posted, you, by your actions, gave me permission to air ALL that we had emailed.

  321.  #321lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:19 am


    i once went out with several guys in a group of friends. it was fine : ) we’re all friends now

  322.  #322lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:21 am

    but @Lizka

    it may be helpful to remember how competitive the dynamic between male friends can be, & that’s not necessarily in your “favor” — though it may result in some exciting dates LOL

  323.  #323Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 10:21 am


    RE: #313 – And right here in your email, you DID give me permission to post on the blog:

    “There’s no reason not to keep this stuff on the blog. That’s where I posted.”

  324.  #324lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:22 am


    how is david ?

  325.  #325Starla on February 21, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Brenda, sorry you got busted violating David’s trust, and I think the other sirens you’ve done this to before me will agree that it’s not to make others think badly of you but to protect ourselves from the drain/lash out cycle that is corresponding with you off the blog. I hope you’ll continue posting here and we can continue to support each other in our quests for healthy, good relationships, if not now, then eventually.

  326.  #326lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:27 am

    if anyone ever wants help, there are so many people who really want to help.

    you can call all sorts of hotlines…. just search online for ” eating disorder hotline baltimore ” or ” sxicide hotline north america ” or ” quit smoking hotline Florida ” & you can call right now & talk to someone who really really wants to help you feel better.

  327.  #327Starla on February 21, 2012 at 10:28 am

    lk, I think Rori used to work for a crisis hotline, too!

  328.  #328VW on February 21, 2012 at 10:30 am


    Nope…not sarcastic…:)

    he said “i love you so much my heart races when i talk about you…”

    he said that before…i know he watches my every move on Fb as well…we talk a lot when we do…

    i admit he is very hot…and very potent…this guy can f*uck u all day and every day if he could…

    i like that 😉

  329.  #329Mochaberri on February 21, 2012 at 10:30 am

    @ FW #282 – Thank you so here’s another question – should I text/call him and let him know that after having time to really think about the conversation this weekend that I understand and agree with him on being friends and feel the same as he does about letting this time allow us to regain trust again and strenghten our friendship

  330.  #330Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 10:30 am

    204 –Butterfly Wings

    Sorry for confusion. Thank you so much for saying I seem so calm….I have been through a LOT in life, in general, AND in relationships. And I’ve always been kind of a Pollyanna….lol 😉 Your words are so encouraging, because I intend to be calm and positive. Really, why let any of this get to me?? I am turning the tables around. 😀

    MILW has been my partner for a handful of years and now says he doesn’t want to be my life partner anymore. We have my stepdaughter, & my adopted son, but my son has been spending time with his biological mother the last couple years, and stepdaughter has moved back to her other (bio)mom’s for a few months.. and we had baby together

    but the other (BF) is someone I have known for years yet never had a committed rlsp with. I saw him in the past and am now seeing him again – BF and I have never been in any committed rlsp at all – not even sexually exclusive. At first we lived in the same city, then even stayed in the same apartment for a tiny while with other friends.. but then he moved away out of state and floated all around for years – he would come back and visit here on holidays and once in a while..and the rest of the time we would talk online. Not a relationship by any means. I saw him again during a time when I left MILW for cheating on me, and this is when I got pregnant. We knew this was a possibility but highly unlikely as it happened only once, but MILW & I did a test after we had the baby and found out BF is the bio father, and BF moved back to my country/state, but is still a few hours away.

    Anyway, I feel like I am getting a lot of good practice with these two!!!

  331.  #331Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Lena, 203
    I think if you back off on the texts (not totally ignore him, just take a lot longer to respond, have short responses… share a feeling msg about talking on the phone…)… he will start calling you. Of course you don’t want a phone buddy either, though.

    Butterfly Wings:
    ” BW think about how you could make her feel good about herself if she gives you the job.”
    Oooh good suggestion from FW!

    “just need to get out of her head, and know that I’m worthy of the job, sell my strengths (I do have several advantages over ANY other applicant that I can highlight),”


    212 Lizka – “It was only two times.
    He asked me to come over to watch a movie that night first definitely sounds like a sex plan) and than came back with the car plan 4 hours later…”

    No I think you did GREAT turning him down, I am curious if FW doesn’t realize these invitations were on the same day – the second one after you had already told him you had plans for the day. You stuck to your plans for yourself. Very good.
    DO NOT TEXT HIM, KEEP QUIET, Stay Focused On Yourself. He is not ready to hear you. He will be ready to hear you, WHEN he contacts you. Then you can say whatever you want!
    “Almost not feeling worried now. The idea to be ready with a feeling message about how I feel now is a good one. I’ll write down how I feel today and until he contacts me.”
    “SexyGuy#2 from the club Saturday accepted my FB friend request (yeah I know it was leaning forward to send the request but whatever…) and I woke up with like 10 notifications of him liking my pictures.”

    “Woooohooooo!! Dicaprio accepted my request AND he’s chattig with me!!!!!!!”

    “I have to admitt that I was not 100% sireny during this chit chat but I’ll do better next time!”

    {{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}} That’s the attitude!

    215 Daria.. haha well kids are kids, they have minds of their own. Trust me. And you’ll never be ALONE, I don’t know about not lonely. Sometimes I just want some ADULT COMPANY PLEEEAAAASSEEEEE. lol. But you will love it. I know you will. And I loved being pregnant too. I so want to do it again.

  332.  #332Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Regarding this post: I feel such deep sorrow whenever I see a doctor or the dentist. It feels embarassing. When I was at the dentist, I seriously wanted to just lie there and sob uncontrollably. I felt cold and lonely and unsafe when I was there. How do you handle it when such emotions come up at such inconvenient times?

  333.  #333lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:32 am


    wow, i imagine she would be good at that

  334.  #334Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 10:33 am

    243 Turquoise-
    “So much of our interactions are based on the kids, and it is important that we feel relaxed and that we can share in it…. I know feeling messages help with that. It’s just that most of what we do/say is about them, which is why I like sleeping with him and the conversations that come after, as they are about us. I have to find out how to balance this all out. There needs to be more about us too.”

    Yes I have been trying to figure this out too, with BF. I want to keep OUR connection that is about us and what we enjoy discussing or doing together…..
    Turquoise 252- YES, I agree if you are lighter he may mirror you. I think your text explaining the cake sounded good – communicated gratitude and also mirrored his concern. I agree with FW 253 about communicating being proud of her for taking responsibility etc.

    Lizka- 255-
    “Now the 3 sexy guys know how to contact me if they want to invite menon a date. But what if the 3 of them invite me??”
    They didn’t seem concerned about that when they all three got your number or fb.
    I don’t know where you live and what it’s like there, but here, I would go out with all of them if they asked. It’s not a relationship, it’s not sex, it’s just going out!!!

    274 Mochaberri
    “really listening and not over analyze things and letting him talk about whatever he wants to.This will create a strong friensdhip and build trust. If he brings up his feelings about the state of our relationship and the past issues that brought us here – simply say “OK I understand” and “I’ve moved on from that and don’t want to dicuss it any more because it makes me feel bad and uncomfortable and I don’t want to feel that way with you…I want to feel good about this time we’re takling/spending together…what do you think?””

    hmmmmm. I am not sure about this but.. it sounds like it could work…
    “Do the things that make me the confident person he fell in love with by focusing my attention on other things and date myself, practice with other men by dating and communicating with them, and not talk about if we can go back to the commiment we were in. These tools are to build me up and allow me to not focus on him and put pressure or give ultimatiums and push him away.”

    Sounds good…and exactly. No pressure, no ultimatums, no convincing. If he doesn’t want to give it to you, someone else does. He is free to step up anytime he wants.

    Starla 283-
    No idea what went on here, but “you seem to have a tremendously huge heart,” is what I sense- Brenda seems very empathetic- sensitive energetically to others..and when others feel pain she feels it. I can picture her feeling alone in her response to this person, and feeling pain for him and feeling pain that no one else seems to care as much. Also, I think her email to you about this particular hurting person was in confidence……. I feel uncomfortable thinking that the person in question may see this post and how they may feel.. I hope that you two will both still post on the blog together. <3

  335.  #335Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 10:36 am

    @328 VW – oh wow. that would totally freak me out, in both good and bad ways!

    So, were you looking for what to say in response to his “i love you so much my heart races when i talk about you” text?

    if a guy said that to me, I would feel like he was more “in lust” than “in love.” But that’s just me. I don’t know how I would respond.

    You said you liked it, but also that it freaked you out…

    Maybe “I feel so overwhelmed by all this attention It feels good, but it also feels a little scary and intense.”

    What do you think, VW?

  336.  #336lk on February 21, 2012 at 10:42 am

    i was talking to cd’s mom on skype & she said, “he has the most amazing feelings” & i almost cried. i feel so sweet today & i feel like crying for how….. easy ? it feels…. but also how conscious. it’s a choice to be this happy. i intend to choose happiness. there is no way to happiness; happiness is the way.

  337.  #337Silver-Tongued Siren on February 21, 2012 at 10:49 am

    335 iamabutterfly-

    I think if the last words are “it feels scary and intense” he will think you don’t like it, won’t say it anymore.

    but if you do want him to share things like this in the future, end the sentence with positive feelings?

    not sure.

  338.  #338Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Thank you STS and lk for your suggestions and responses to me!

    I will considere going out with more than one as lobg as I’m not kissing any of them…

    Anyway I’m not there yet, I don’t have the invitation except from Sexy#1 who made unofficial invite for movies next Tuesday… I’ll decide when I’m there.

    I have to remind me often to go with the flow 🙂

    Back to focus on me and my work now…

    Love you!!!

  339.  #339Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 10:57 am

    @337 Silver-tongued siren – That’s true, he may not think she likes it. At the same time, I feel like she does need to speak her truth, otherwise he won’t understand her completely.

    Maybe “it feels scary and intense, but I like it. I’m just not used to it. I want to get used to it. It feels new and exciting.” Possibly?

  340.  #340Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 10:58 am


    I thot we were here to practice feeling messages, gentle conflict resolution, and inner healing.

    Rori said how we relate on the blog is how we will be late man.

  341.  #341Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 10:59 am


    I think you are doing great by stating your boundaries with ATW on advance notice for dates.

    I am sure he will pick up on this and plan ahead for the next times. As well, your ‘value’ in his eyes increases when you do this. You teach him to value you and your time together.

  342.  #342Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 11:00 am

    oddly enough, I had almost the exact conversation with Jack CD as VW did with her guy over something Jack CD did, not said.

    I’m not sure how he took it. I feel like there’s a lot of confusing back and forth between us. I’m tempted to say; “I feel bad and embarassed because I’m not the best at communicating and responding when I’m interested in someone.”

  343.  #343Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Be late man = relate to a man.

  344.  #344Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Mocha wait until he comes towards you. The script seems to be good but I would encourage you to go for any deeper feelings you might be having. If you feel disappointed that he keeps bringing this up I would include that as well. If you were dreaming of being in a solid safe relationship with him by now without feeling like you have to be pulling teeth to be with him then I would say that also. However, if you are confidently cdating and have learned your lesson from this experience really listen to him when he talks and let him know you appreciate his honesty about his feelings. I however would not text or call, I would wait until he comes toward me. Otherwise it could come across as you trying to convince him not to leave you. When he comes towards you, he comes because that is what he wants to do and where he wants to be.

  345.  #345Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:04 am

    I am trying to catch up on last post and this one. Sorry if I am not commenting to every one of you, but I am reading it all to get back on track with you.

  346.  #346Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 11:04 am


    Your NY trip sounds amazing 🙂

    Yes I feel that initiating a contact #309 is leaning fwd. What I did (and don’t know if it’s right or wrong!) was let go and then in the morning when he hugged me said: it feels so good to be in your arms, I felt that was missing last night.

    Still not perfect, but the best I could come up with lol

  347.  #347Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:06 am


    I always try to stay away from the ‘friend’ trap. Now is a good time to speak your truth WHEN he comes towards you.

  348.  #348Brenda on February 21, 2012 at 11:06 am


    I see nothing but a lot of attacks and false accusations. The best defense for ur violation of respect and privacy of two victims is your offense.

    I feel sad that this isn’t about healing a damaged relationship.

  349.  #349Starla on February 21, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Brenda, you’re so right. Rori did say that. And I don’t wish to discuss this further.

  350.  #350Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Memulo @346,

    I have tried that too. He usually takes me in his arms, but not always, or will at least in the morning. Sometimes, he,ll just hold my hand as we doze off. I always let him know that feels nice.

    Maybe expecting it all the time, ie when we are exhausted, is a little too much.

  351.  #351Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:09 am

    VW I believe the more you tell him that you don’t want romance is the more of a challenge you seem to him and you how that affects guys.

  352.  #352Mel on February 21, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Hello sirens!

    I’ve been both busy and not feeling well… but I’m feeling more myself today and catching up a bit. Hugs to all!!

  353.  #353VW on February 21, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Iamabutterfly 🙂

    Thank you for your suggestions…on FM 🙂

    To the 1st one that i posted above…i answered ”

    “aww…u “talk” ab me?”
    he responded…”to everyone i know…i tell them how grateful that God has blessed me with an incredible woman who is the love of my life…”

    i responded…”wow…i feel speechless 🙂 and thank you “…

    Well, he’s said something like this before when we talked…so, it’s not a first…

    I told him already I felt a bit overwhelmed and cautious about such expressed dedication…yet, i feel appreciative of it…because he feels it in the moment…what can i say…”i do magic on them when i talk to them…”…lol well…he is not the only one, so there must be a lot truth to what he is saying…even if is in the moment…)

    i used to be wrapped up into judgmental thoughts and suspicion…that kept me from creating magic in my life…the more i believe that indeed i am this amazing woman…the more men manifest in my life and prove I am amazing 🙂

  354.  #354Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Here are some of his thoughts about what it takes to have a man fall in love with you:

    If you are truly interested in a man and want him to grow in love, respect and admiration for you, the method is remarkably simple: bring out the best in him. Every woman has this power, but sometimes forgets.

    A man will steadily fall more and more in love with a woman who steadily helps him become more and more the man he has always wanted to be. Not only can you help nurture the vision that he has of his own greatness, but you can go one step beyond and encourage him to be even bigger than he has ever imagined himself.

    When you do this, he has no choice but to feel good about himself around you. He will feel taller, stronger, more capable, more masculine. And chances are that he’s not getting anything like that anywhere else. Which means that he’s more likely to stay with you for the long run.

    How do you do this? Energy flows where attention goes, so address your attention to the best part of a man’s character. These are the aspects of him you want to see flourish: strength, courage, compassion, and loyalty. Want for him more than he wants for himself.

    By consciously directing your energy, you help him along his path of evolution. And if the man you’ve picked is indeed worthy of your attention, he will have no choice but to love you for it.
    To read his blog and learn more about the work of Ali, please visit his site: ;

    Wishing you love, laughter and magical kisses,


  355.  #355VW on February 21, 2012 at 11:16 am


    Yes, you are right…i told that to the guy who recently contacted me…he leaves way to far away…for my liking…and i have no intention of relocating to that area any time soon…maybe when my son is 16…

    and i really don’t want long distance right now…and likely not marriage either…

    i do however, want a committed relationship…i guess a boyfriend;…i want for once in my life to experience feeling safe and loved and happy with one man…once i experience that …then, i would contemplate about marriage…

  356.  #356Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Hey Mel Welcome back. Been wondering about you.

  357.  #357Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Featured Topic: The Secret To Persuading A Man

    I’ll tell you a secret that you probably won’t hear from any other man…
    Men actually want to be persuaded by women. For all their talk of independence and concerns regarding being manipulated, they actually enjoy a woman who knows HOW to charm them into doing things.

    Here is the secret to being persuasive….
    When you make a request, do the following steps:

    1. Make direct eye contact
    2. Smile
    3. State your request in a calm and kind voice, and say it ONLY ONCE

    Hold your smile for approximately 5 seconds and look directly at him (do not yell from another room, look in a different direction, avert your eyes, etc,). I guarantee that he will not only hear your request, but more importantly – he will feel it.

    He may not really want to grant your request or agree with what you want, and initially, he may not respond to it, or even deny it. In fact, this is quite often the initial reaction.

    But, he will consider what you have asked, and if it is not outlandish or impossible, you might just be surprised at the results.

    I once counseled a couple who fought frequently. The woman was extremely discouraged because she didn’t know how to awaken her husbands passion for her. Most of the time he didn’t listen to her, or even consider the things that she asked of him. I worked with this woman privately in one session, and suggested that she try the technique that I just mentioned.

    Here is what happened….

    This woman wanted an extra $500.00 to spend on Christmas. A few weeks prior to Christmas, she approached her husband in the following manner; she sat down next to her husband who happened to be reading something at the kitchen table, smiled, looked at him, and stated simply in a calm and kind manner, “I would really like to have an extra $500.00 to spend on Christmas this year.” Her husband did not respond, or even look up from what he was reading.

    Nevertheless, she continued to smile and look at him for approximately 5 seconds, then left he room, and went about her business.

    Several days later, she was busying herself at home hanging Christmas decorations, when her husband tapped her on the shoulder. “Here,” he stated. He then handed her five $100 bills.

    Needless to say, she was shocked, and pleasantly surprised.

    If you want to be persuasive, try this method. You will be surprised just how often the man in your life will be willing to honor your request

    Bob Grant

  358.  #358Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 11:19 am

    @353 VW – No, no thank YOU! When you wrote this:

    “i used to be wrapped up into judgmental thoughts and suspicion…that kept me from creating magic in my life…the more i believe that indeed i am this amazing woman…the more men manifest in my life and prove I am amazing! ”

    it was like a lightbulb for me! so truly, Thank You!

  359.  #359Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Hi Mel!

  360.  #360Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean.” – Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    What would happen if we each learned to take 100% responsibility for our own feelings and needs – learning to attend to our feelings with compassion for ourselves, and extending that compassion to others? What would happen if each of us were conscious enough to sweep in front of our own door – which means we would be conscious enough not to dump our filth on the rest of the world?

    I love to imagine the possibilities!

  361.  #361Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Hi Inner Bonder!

    One of the very best ways of becoming non-reactive to fear and hurt is remember to take a breath. Once we react, we get stuck in our wounded selve and we spiral down into our traditional ways of controlling. If we take a breath, we can short-circuit the wounded self and act from our loving Adult, lovingly disengaging or moving into an intent to learn. This takes practice, but it’s so worth it!

  362.  #362Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 11:23 am

    do you sirens ever just long to comfort men you see? men that you can just see and feel their pain even from a distance? I long to comfort men I don’t know all the time…but I worry about being too masculine-energy with them.

    Is approaching a man in pain to comfort him considered masculine-energy?

  363.  #363Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Thank you for your posts FW! They are always timely and so inspiring!


    I am grateful.

  364.  #364Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Iamabutterfly @362,

    Comforting a man when he he has not asked you or expressed a need for comfort, is more mothering than leaning forward to me.

    It usually does not inspire them to reach out to us in Masculine energy afterwards.

    This is from my experience.

  365.  #365light heart on February 21, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Hi Brenda and Silver Moonbeam,
    Thank you both for your suggestions.

    My plan is to continue with the RR mantra of
    trusting my boundaries, following my
    feelings, choosing my words and
    being surprised!

    It’s nice that I have favorable male attention
    from other guys in my life, although it’s
    not necessary for my own validation of

    but it’s got to be that one very special
    guy who meets my very reasonable
    ‘requirements’, that are
    based on knowing what I want (not demands),
    or needing a man to ‘complete’ me,

    who is really going to capture my
    heart and be the best match for me!

    light heart

  366.  #366VW on February 21, 2012 at 11:29 am

    You are welcome Yamabutterfly 🙂

    and thank you FW for the posts 🙂

    have a great day Sirens…hope to catch up tonite…:)

    warm hugs,

  367.  #367Iamabutterfly on February 21, 2012 at 11:30 am

    @364 Siren Angel – thanks for the perspective. I feel like you are right.

    Maybe I can just “reach out” to men I’m not interested in, to get the mothering instinct out of me…;)

    I really want to be a mom someday!

  368.  #368light heart on February 21, 2012 at 11:32 am

    362. Iamabutterfly,
    Yes, many men are sad, lonely and bored.
    I look at them, see them and smile at them,
    if I’m moved to,
    but I don’t assume that what they need
    is for me to comfort them, so I don’t do it.

    light heart

  369.  #369Starla on February 21, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I am feeling so tired and bored and a little sad today. Things are not going well with CF. I am dating some other guys now but I don’t like any of them (yet).

  370.  #370Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Comforting a man when he has not asked you for that, and even when he asks, might cause him to feel like a little boy and bring on the eeeeewwwww feeling. My sense is that men like to feel like men.

  371.  #371Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 11:52 am


    What’s wrong with CF? Can it be that he is busy with his move?

  372.  #372Dominique on February 21, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Siren Angel – #364 – yes, yes, yes!!!


  373.  #373Dominique on February 21, 2012 at 11:57 am

    And even if he asks, tread carefully. It doesn’t take much to have the dynamic between you shift in not so good feeling ways.


  374.  #374Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 12:00 pm


    What if he complains about being in a bad health? How do you respond?

  375.  #375Dominique on February 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Not so Femininewoman, not always. A man, some men, can easily fall into behaving like a little boy or wanting/expecting his desires to be met. Yet it depends on the situation and the man. Mothering and smothering doesn’t usually go over so well, but being taken care of, sure.


  376.  #376Mel on February 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    …testing (nothing is posting for me) 🙁

  377.  #377Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Wow ladies I have to share with you another synchronistic moment that happened to me today, it’s like I keep getting messages left, right and centre from The Universe!!!

    It is now Tuesday, Aurora Girl wrote this to me on Sunday after all my fear stuff:

    “Susan Jeffers has another book about dealing with fear in relationships and shares her stories about dating middle age….Feel the Fear guide to Lasting Love…she talks about dating again and how to stop running from a man who could very well be mister right.”

    And I was like, no I think I am OK now………..

    So today I had to go to the library to print some work stuff (long story new job and I can’t find the printer leads ) anyways while all this stuff was printing out I strolled over to the shelves at the back of the library where they sell used books and DVD’s. The books are all neatly lined up and are only 30p each (50c probably) and there facing towards me with it’s bright RED cover on it’s own was the above Susan Jeffers book recommended by Aurora Girl!!!!

    F.R.E.A.K.Y. or what??

  378.  #378Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Wow ladies I have to share with you another synchronistic moment that happened to me today, it’s like I keep getting messages left, right and centre from The Universe!!!

    It is now Tuesday, Aurora Girl wrote this to me on Sunday after all my fear stuff:

    “Susan Jeffers has another book about dealing with fear in relationships and shares her stories about dating middle age….Feel the Fear guide to Lasting Love…she talks about dating again and how to stop running from a man who could very well be mister right.”

    And I was like, no I think I am OK now………..

    So today I had to go to the library to print some work stuff (long story new job and I can’t find the printer leads ) anyways while all this stuff was printing out I strolled over to the shelves at the back of the library where they sell used books and DVD’s. The books are all neatly lined up and are only 30p each (50c probably) and there facing towards me with it’s bright RED cover on it’s own was the above Susan Jeffers book recommended by Aurora Girl!!!!

    F.R.E.A.K.Y. or what??

  379.  #379Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Thank you Dominique @372!


    What is your take on going into a man’s arms to fall asleep when he does not (at that moment, but most of the time does) reach out to take you in his arms to doze off?

    Is it leaning forward? I’m very curious about this. My earlier post:

    309: Siren AngelNo Gravatar says:


    Do you think that when you are in bed ready to doze off with a man, it is leaning forward to go towards him to go into his arms to sleep?

    I have tried to stop myself from going to his arms and waited for him to take me in his arms instead, it works but not always. Then I feel sad for not initiating the sleeping in each other’s arms and feel a little stupid to wait for him to take me in his arms. I wonder if this (being the one that goes towards the other person to sleep in each other’s arms) is leaning forward or if it actually being a cactus to NOT expect that in body language.

    Any thoughts on this? your experiences?

  380.  #380lk on February 21, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    wow…. Cr8zy! My first online dating guy came back around LOL that’s hilarious. After 4 months! he was all up in my grill right around valentine’s but i just answered his questions without knowing who it was & i just got who it is. that’s so funny. he was such a good experience…. i thought i was kind of Into Him… but then one time he said, “we have really good banter” & i was like…… goodnight : ) … lol i don’t want banter. i want connection & understanding : )

  381.  #381Mel on February 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    What’s up Starla?

  382.  #382Dominique on February 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Memulo – “Oh I’m sorry you don’t feel well.”

    That’s it. If he wants something, like tea or soup, he will ask for, and it’s perfectly okay to get it for him.

    IF he has a problem that he doesn’t know what to do about and seems to be floundering AND you know all about it (eg. you have extensive natural remedy knowledge), then say to him, “May I make a suggestion?”

    If he says yes, tell him what you know as simply as possible but no offering anything more UNLESS he asks.

    There’s a fine line between being helpful and mothering.


  383.  #383elle on February 21, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I don’t know if the NV’s are getting to me or whether it is just the hormones of PMS. We spent such a nice afternoon together yesterday but still I feel lonely and neglected. It seems that for the last month, I am his afternoon or during the day girl. He doesn’t ask me out in the evening at all anymore. I know that work has been intense, but he still seems to have time to go to dinner with friends. I am getting sick of being upset and feeling bad. I get myself all worked up and then he just seems to say something sweet and loving and it all melts away. Then I go around that circle again.

    I have trust issues that I am working on and I have to say it worked so well over the weekend. I kept telling myself that I will trust what he says to be the truth.

    I am cding, but it just doesn’t feel great to me. He can be one of the sweetest, most loving people I have ever met. I know he loves me but lately I just feel like he is pulling away from me. I am leaning back (most of the time) its hard but I try. I use FM’s. Someone please tell me what to do to draw him closer again.

    Right now, it seems like the only thing I can do is focus on me and go out and have a good time and not think about him, but that seems yucky to me too.

    I want him to make me feel secure
    I want him to ask me out more
    I want him to pay more attention to me.


  384.  #384lk on February 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    @Siren Angel

    if i wouldn’t feel upset for him to say, “not tonight baby i need space” then i can cuddle him first

    if i want to be cuddled i can say…. “i feel snuggly” or “i feel txrned on” & then maybe he will come to me

    if i need to be cuddled i can go get a blanket & cuddle myself : )

  385.  #385Dominique on February 21, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Well Siren Angel, it depends. Most of the time I would say don’t do it. You’ve already noticed that when you do, he doesn’t seem so receptive. He may do it anyway, but it won’t feel so close and cozy as when he initiates. You may even feel him pulling away energetically.

    In other situations, if you have been together for a long enough time, are closely bonded, intimate, it’s okay to ask for a hug when you feel down or needy. And you would say just that. “I feel really needy right now. Can I have a hug?” Unless he has something pressing on his mind, usually he will gladly open his arms to you.

    Does this answer your question?


  386.  #386Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    FB/Messenger question

    For those of you Sirens who have your CD’s as contacts, do you hide that you are online as a way of leaning back or are you always “available” as a way of being open for communication as in warm and inviting like an invitation?

    In other words what is leaning back and what is considered leaning forward in the social networking communties we find ourselves in nowadays?

  387.  #387Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Thank you Dominique,

    He usually does it by himself or will at least reach for my hand to fall asleep holding it. I feel I need more snuggles than he does. And I have noticed that if I don’t do it, yes he will usually come closer, maybe the next morning when we wake up.

    I’ll try not to do it, or use light FMs if I’m not getting enough snuggling time. But yes, that answers my question and the snuggles will be ‘closer’ when he initiates them, then I really feel he’s into snuggling.

    Thank you!!!

  388.  #388Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 12:20 pm


    I am almost always OFF LINE on FB. I only go online on very rare occasions. Although with M we used to chat on FB in the VERY beginning.

  389.  #389Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    LK @384, I was refering to after sex. Sometimes he’ll snuggle, sometimes he’ll just stay on his side for some reason.

  390.  #390Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    SM @386,

    If you go online on FB in hope that a CD who is online will communicate with you via chat, don’t do it. 2 years ago I was in an imaginary relationship and would spend hours ‘waiting’ online. It feels kinda ridiculous I wasted all that time and energy then! He probably felt my ‘wait’… go offline.

  391.  #391Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    SM 386 –

    I never hide that I am online. They see me and they are always welcome to come talk to me. I have other friends and I want to be available for them as well.

    I considere it just like my cell phone. They can contact me at anytime on my cell phone, so why not on my Facebook?

    If I really don’t feel like talking, my might turn it off or just not respond.

    But my Facebook is open almost all the time because when I’m not connected on my pc, it is most of the time open on my phone…

  392.  #392lk on February 21, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    @Siren Angel

    i feel a little confused….. does what i wrote not sound applicable to the situation you are describing ?

    i guess i feel a little defensive having something “explained” to me…. like i didn’t “get” it…. hmmmm i feel curious about my defensiveness….

  393.  #393Sassy on February 21, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Prayers please, my siren friends. My daughter is 37 1/2 weeks pregnant with first baby and spiked her blood pressure. Is in triage at hospital on monitors. I feel nervous and scared and teary.

  394.  #394FlowerChild77 on February 21, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    #220/Ella I looked up this book. I don’t want to argue about it, but one thing he says in the book scares me.

    He says the ‘craving’ is not physical and not real…that it’s only in the mind. This is absolutely not true for those who have the disease of alcoholism.

    People DIE from going into DT’s (delirium tremens.) This is caused by the body’s withdrawal from the alcohol. My first husband and father of my two oldest sons died in this way. He had a seizure after not drinking for 24 hours. (This wasn’t something “in his mind.”)

    I watched my father, time after time, hauled away in an ambulance because he was in DT’s. Each time, I never knew whether he was coming back or not, as it can and does cause death if not treated properly. (Many alcoholics need to go to a hospital where they are given carefully monitored medication to “detox” for this very reason.)

    It is a physical, mental and spiritual disease.

    The book seems to be based on logic. Addiction does not respond to reason or logic. (If it did, it wouldn’t be such an awful problem.)

    Perhaps for people who just want to stop drinking (people who are NOT alcoholic) and care about their health (which seems to be his main focus) the book may be helpful. I do understand that not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.

    I know you are in England, but the AMA (American Medical Association) recognizes alcoholism as a primary disease (not a “symptom” of something else.) I know many people who drink occasionally and have healthy lives. It’s not that I think “everyone” is an alcoholic.

    I’m not a prude or ‘over reacting’ to anyone who drinks—but after watching this disease literally kill people I love—I feel strongly when I see the disease talked about as if it’s simply a matter of “will power.”

    Oh my….I’ve said way more than I intended to. This is definitely a trigger for me 🙁

  395.  #395Starla on February 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Sassy, sending positive vibes her way

  396.  #396Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 12:51 pm


    Sending you and your daughter good vibes. xoxoxo

  397.  #397Mel on February 21, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Siren Angel 389:

    Some guys just need more/are used to more space. Mr. A is definitely like that. Using FMs has definitely helped.

    I am a person that needs lots of physical contact and I feel wilted and almost lethargic without it. One day when he was snuggling me I melted and said how good it felt and how much I love snuggles and how it makes me feel so safe and warm and happy and like it turned all my muscles to mush and made me feel so relaxed and peaceful. He said “awwww, really?” I said “yeah… I am such a cuddle bug. Snuggles make me feel like my best girly self.”

    Ever since, he snuggles me at night for at least 10 minutes, and kisses me softly before moving over to give himself the space he needs. He came up with that arrangement on his own and I love it! And it feels like he is sooooo happy to do it.

  398.  #398Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:54 pm


    Do you have your settings turned ON or OFF to let a man who hasn’t contacted know you have looked at his profile?

    Is turning it ON the modern day equivalent of dropping a hankie or the 5 second glance or a big NO NO.

    Mine is turned OFF………

  399.  #399Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Sassy sending prayers and positive vibes your way.

  400.  #400Silver Moonbeam on February 21, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    #397 Mel

    I don’t think I will ever in my lifetime be able to talk as you do about snuggles and cuddle bugs and being my girly self…. really that is beyond my capabilites…………….

  401.  #401lk on February 21, 2012 at 1:00 pm


    Prayers & Love

  402.  #402lk on February 21, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    in awe right now… wow

  403.  #403Mel on February 21, 2012 at 1:03 pm


    LOL… For me it doesn’t feel inauthentic. I’ve always been super girly, and am finally learning how to express myself better as I used to be such a people pleaser and keep everything inside.

    Just do what feel natural to you! 🙂

  404.  #404Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Mel @397,

    What a really nice FM for snuggles. I may use that if you don’t mind… Thanks!!! 🙂

  405.  #405Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    (((SASSY and your DAUGHTER))) Sending loving thoughts and positive vibes to you and your daughter.

  406.  #406Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm


    Sorry, I did not intend to come accross as you ‘didn’t understand’ what I was saying… not at all my intention. I was just adding detail after several comments on the ‘snuggles and leaning forward’ matter.

    LK, I appreciate your comments and feedback very much, I am grateful for all Sirens commenting.

    Please don’t feel put off by my comment.


  407.  #407Aurora Girl on February 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    377 Silver Moon beam

    Cool when that happens isn’t it?


  408.  #408Daria on February 21, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Silver tongue – I know children have minds of their own which is why I want them around… I feel kinda bad having it be told me as if I wouldn’t be aware of … And by extension respectful of my children’s mind. I am aware it’s a common assumption in ‘everyday talk’ and it feels bad to me receiving it.

    I feel unseen

    I know my relationship w my children will be quite different than the power struggle complaint stuff most people choose to experience

  409.  #409Daria on February 21, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Some, I dono if most

  410.  #410lk on February 21, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    @Siren Angel

    : ) thank you for the sweetness : )

    also, i hope that you did not feel too Burdened to respond to that… it was a lot Me Processing… : )

    thank you, again : )

  411.  #411FlowerChild77 on February 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Sassy…I will remember your daughter in my prayer/meditation.

    Siren Angel…I know Dominique and others have answered your question about snuggling. I just wanted to say that as much as I LOVE to cuddle and be held (especially after sex 😉 ) I do not sleep well unless I have enough space in the bed to roll over and “get comfortable” when I need to.

    Guy-I’m-with likes to snuggle and can fall asleep like that and stay that way all night. I’m the one who feels bad because I have to “untangle” in order to sleep well.

    I was thinking maybe that’s why your man, sometimes, just falls asleep without the cuddling because he is so comfortable however he is laying at that moment. (Which would be no reflection on how he feels about you, etc.)

    Just my two-cents…

  412.  #412Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 1:49 pm


    Not burdened at all. This is a safe place and it feels good to share. 🙂

  413.  #413Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Silver Moonbeam you are not too much older than I am. I thought the same way also until I saw Mel’s fms so I decided to experiment even when just sitting on the couch. What I find exciting is that as long as a man feels big and strong and love the way he feels masculine in your presence he will respond. I have even experienced guys going to a kind of girly giggle when I say things like that then switch into macho man style. It is amazing the kind of power that kind of stuff gives us with some men.

  414.  #414Daria on February 21, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    i dont feel good with the addiction is a disease model of thought for the most part… it felt disempowering to me to believe that…

    im glad i chose a different perspective and that i was blessed to have that available to me

    and i do understand about withdrawals

    different from cravings
    i used to do EFT while drunk in the bathroom to take down my craving to drink more

  415.  #415Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    330 STS – Wow! Ok I get a clearer picture now, and please don’t apologise for the confusion! 🙂

    And yep, why let any of this get to you? It’s not like it’s going to turn these guys around. Best to focus on yourself as much as you can, which is hard as a single mother I know.


  416.  #416Daria on February 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Flower Child – it may be no reflection on how he feels

    and i dont want to tolerate feeling lonely and uncuddled while laying by a man

    i want to practice saying… i feel uncuddled… in these situations

  417.  #417Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    I’m meeting with potential new boss today – it’s no an interview. I just asked her if I could catch up with her to ask a few questions about the position.

    She’s really nice, so hopefully I’ll begin a string of good impressions! 🙂

  418.  #418Daria on February 21, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Flower Child – sorry for directing that to you… i guess i created a mind scenario where “its no reflection of how he feels” is ‘understanding him’..

    and got the impression that you would use that idea to justify to yourself tolerating feeling bad/lonely next to a man

    and then that felt sad

    and then Daria felt her “fixit” mode jump in

    i wonder wht this showed up for me to heal

  419.  #419Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Good luck BW.

  420.  #420Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    FW77, Thank you, that is an very interesting point of view to consider. He does say he sleeps better when I sleep over 🙂

  421.  #421Starla on February 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    BW, oooh have fun!! I feel excited for your opportunity!

  422.  #422Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    FC77, sorry, Thank you!!! I meant Flowerchild, not FW.

  423.  #423Butterfly Wings on February 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    393 Sassy – I hope she’s ok. At least she’s in the hospital and they can monitor her now.

  424.  #424Lizka on February 21, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    SM 398

    What do you mean?!? There is not such an option?! We can not see who checked our profile?!? What’s that????? I feel so scared?

  425.  #425Mochaberri on February 21, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    @ FW # 344 – I decided not to do it. I’m taking care of myself by not reaching out again today – I did not like his attitude earlier today and I’m not going to reward bad behavior by reaching out again and exposing the most beautiful part of me – my vulnerabilty – he doesn’t deserve that. Thank you for complimenting my script; I had a temporary moment of insanity when I typed that and asked if I should reach out to communicate that with him. I decided to wait and let him contact me and even then I may not express it – in fact as I stated in an earlier post, let him do all the work to establish the relationship however it goes. And if he brings up the past issues I will let him say whatever he needs to say and really listen and let him know that I appeciate his honesty and sharing his feelings; thank him smile warmly and use the stop sign tool allowing me not to get into an argument and feel awful – that sounds o empowering as I’m typing!!!!!!!!!!

    As far as going deeper I feel that we have done that so many times. And could possible be the reason why I feel exhausted and frustrated. We both have been clear on where we stand. I’ve expressed my deepest feelings and fears with him and as I see and feel it, he has yet to tap within and get deep with himself- he’s only scratched the surface by telling me that his pride and ego hurts;he doesn’t even know why he has trust issues or so he has told me other than I know how people act when they are at their lowest – no personal experience to reference. Once he is clear why he has the issues he has then maybe we can begin the real work towards a fufilling healthy relationship. Until then, I’m going to create the love I want with me and possibly someone new by cd’ing.

    Yes I can use my experience with him as a great life lesson.

    And yes I agree with you about it sounding as if I’m trying to convince him -I need to inspire him by not dwelling on the past and show him how I want to be treated when he chooses to come toward me.

    Thank you all for your support I feel so light and fluffy!!!!!!!!!!!!

  426.  #426Sassy on February 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Thank you, all of you for the powerful thoughts and positive vibes and prayers. As of right now, mama and baby are doing good. Waiting for midwife.

    Much love

    It feels so great when we all come together in a mutual outpouring of love and good feelings and thoughts.
    Women/sirens/goddesses are AWESOME!!

  427.  #427Femininewoman on February 21, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Sassy you are a granmama? Congrats.

  428.  #428Mochaberri on February 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    @ Siren Angel #347 – Thank you so much for your feedback – I really appreciate it.

    I’m feeling intrigued to know what’s your definition and views of the “friend trap” and yes I always find a way to speak the truth even if it comes out in an arguement.

    At this point I have said all I’ve had to say about our relationship and as I beleive Bob Grant said – let go of the story we told oursleves before and get a new one and that’s where I’m at. My former story was KR is that I felt obligated and overfunctioned and now that the investment didn’t pay off I have to let it go and invest in something else and if it’s a stronger friendship with him to get us to my happy ever after and marriage then I’m ready to take the journey.

  429.  #429Turquoise on February 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    #284,FW…. I said that because we talked about the cake over the weekend and I said I might have to order one, and he said I might have to end up making one. My daughter’s teacher said to get it at the grocery store, so it wasn’t something I could be proud of. Guess I could have said, I felt relieved to find one.

  430.  #430Daria on February 21, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Oooh omgosh I just had an orgasm and now I got my period!

    Yay me!

    I knew it felt appropriate to have sex when I did!

    Yay me for in tune w my fertility

    And now I smoked a joint of catnip to ease cramps – it worked!

    I like smoking catnip… Feels relaxing!

  431.  #431Mel on February 21, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    FW, SMB

    I think it’s also about the tone of voice. If you say it all “baby-like” it could totally feel too mushy and weird and childish. That would feel yucky to me.

    It’s funny, but I can say “I’m such a cuddle-bug” in a completely normal voice, maybe a little emphasis on suuuuch. It doesn’t feel weird to me at all… 🙂

  432.  #432Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    I Am still having some uncomfortableness and feeling woozy and a bit nauseaous… mmm

    and sleepy now… i have a date planned in an hour and a half

  433.  #433Mel on February 21, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    A nice little reminder not to worry too much about my imperfections….

    I felt so not cute this weekend. My skin’s a little broken out (hormonal) and of course, this is the weekend I was going to meet his mom. I felt a little bit less confident than usual, but then did a little bit of nice talk to myself to lift my vibe…

    So I’m sitting on the couch with his mom, happily sipping a coffee. The sun’s streaming in through the window, I’m feeling warm and content. He’s sitting on a chair opposite us and suddenly he gets this HUGE smile on his face and I smile back and he blushes and chuckles a little and his mom looks at him and then looks puzzled, at me. I say “I don’t know what this is all about… ” and we all laugh.

    Later he tells me “I was admiring you this afternoon. You looked so pretty sitting there in the sunshine and it made me so happy to see you there talking to my mom.”

    Soooooo sweet, and even better to hear on a day when I started off feeling anything BUT pretty.

    Little imperfections so don’t matter at all. 🙂

  434.  #434April Rose on February 21, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Hello ladies,

    I just went to guitar club, and EM (who I am dating) wasn’t there.
    I suspect he hopes I’ll lean forward and call him to ask why he wasn’t there. I won’t, of course.

    I think he did this last week too. He gave me a Valentine’s card and present two days early then didn’t phone me on Valentine’s day. I didn’t call him either.

    It often seems he is fishing for me to lean forward to show him I care. And he deliberately leans back.

  435.  #435Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    and its the new moon when i intended my peezy. thank you Daria

  436.  #436Daria on February 21, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    April Rose that must feel awful. it would make me feel weird and insecure.. and feeling that way with a man makes me feel turned off…

  437.  #437Siren Angel on February 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Yeah Sassy! So happy for you, daughter and baby.

  438.  #438Senior Lady Vibe on February 21, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    @186: Silver Moonbeam says:
    “…BTW have you got yourself one of your beloved flippy skirts yet??s ..”

    No flippy skirts but I’ve looked at a few…

    I did buy this “healthy treat” for my “monthly birthday”
    ==> Planters “NUT-rition Omera-3 mix.”
    It’s like a trail mix but only walnuts, dried cranberries and dark chocolate covered
    soy nuts. Deelish!

    Trivia note: Mr. Peanut is the official logo of the Planters brand. He’s a peanut with skinny arms and legs, wears a top hat, monocle, walking stick and spats… so fun LOL…! I like that he’s been around since my early childhood. Is Planters brand
    available in UK?

    I became curious and checked WikiPedia: Mr. Peanut’s been around since 1916!


  439.  #439April Rose on February 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    On Thursday I am going to take a bus to my nearest city and spend the day being open and warm and smiling at men. (Oh and maybe do a spot of non-man shopping too, like trying on a shoe or two)!!

    I intend to attract at least one happy, healthy masculine man who is at ease with himself in all his aspects.

    There. I’ve put my request in to our fine ol’ Universe.

  440.  #440April Rose on February 21, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    It does feel a bit weird. But it gives me such good practice. I need to be even more clear with him about how good I feel when he takes the lead. I feel confident he will get it.

  441.  #441Senior Lady Vibe on February 21, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    @234: Femininewoman says:

    “…fiber-rich foods:
    Barley has 12 grams per ½ cup
    Beans like black beans, navy beans, refried, and lima beans all have 6 or more grams
    per ½ cup
    Bran cereal has 13 grams per 3 to ½ cup
    Peas have more than 9 grams per ½ cup
    Corn on the cob has 5 grams per ear
    Strawberries have 4 grams per cup and raspberries have more than 5, and blackberries have more than 7 grams
    Potatoes with the skin—a medium-sized spud has 5 grams
    Broccoli has 7 grams per ¾ cooked cup
    Oatmeal has 7 grams per ¾ cup
    Apples have 4 grams of fiber in the form of pectin
    Dried fruits like figs and pears have more than 10 grams per ½ cup…”

    Cool list, FW 8)

    I think Dr. Oz recommends for women 25 grams fiber daily.

  442.  #442April Rose on February 21, 2012 at 3:52 pm


    What is a flippy skirt?

  443.  #443Memulo on February 21, 2012 at 3:56 pm


    Any tips not to be taken for granted after the initial chase is over 😉 – ?

  444.  #444kayla on February 21, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    hey sirens.. what would you say to a man who asks you to play 20 questions?? i feel bored and childish playing that game.. and i also feel like men sometimes use this game as an excuse to initiate sexual talk..

  445.  #445Aurora Girl on February 21, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    444 Kayla
    well you can always play 5 questions at a time….and if it’s not going where you want……you can use a FM and suggest you feel….”bored” or “blah” playing it and want to switch to something else and ask him what he thinks…

    this game can actually be fun if you turn it around….a fellow I was dating liked to play it on msn and in return I said to him “silver or gold” meaning what kind of jewelry did he prefer….he jumped to conclusion thinking I was thinking of wedding rings!!!! very telling !!!

    you can actually have fun with it!


  446.  #446elle on February 21, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Kayla: I kind of like the whole 20 questions thing. With someone new, it gives me a chance to ask questions that interest me about him that I normally would not ask. You could set some groundrules that he can’t ask sex questions.

  447.  #447Senior Lady Vibe on February 21, 2012 at 4:47 pm

  448.  #448elle on February 21, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    I posted this earlier, but I didn’t get any response. I know the blog is moving fast today. I just wanted an opinion from all of you wonderful sirens. Update for today is that he called me this afternoon and told me that he was going to call me back around 430 5, he sent me a text at 5:40 that he was working late and did try to call me around 630. A call I missed and did not return. I just didn’t feel like being warm and fuzzy.

    I don’t know if the NV’s are getting to me or whether it is just the hormones of PMS. We spent such a nice afternoon together yesterday but still I feel lonely and neglected. It seems that for the last month, I am his afternoon or during the day girl. He doesn’t ask me out in the evening at all anymore. I know that work has been intense, but he still seems to have time to go to dinner with friends. I am getting sick of being upset and feeling bad. I get myself all worked up and then he just seems to say something sweet and loving and it all melts away. Then I go around that circle again.

    I have trust issues that I am working on and I have to say it worked so well over the weekend. I kept telling myself that I will trust what he says to be the truth.

    I am cding, but it just doesn’t feel great to me. He can be one of the sweetest, most loving people I have ever met. I know he loves me but lately I just feel like he is pulling away from me. I am leaning back (most of the time) its hard but I try. I use FM’s. Someone please tell me what to do to draw him closer again.

    Right now, it seems like the only thing I can do is focus on me and go out and have a good time and not think about him, but that seems yucky to me too.

    I want him to make me feel secure
    I want him to ask me out more
    I want him to pay more attention to me.

    Help me

  449.  #449kayla on February 21, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    okay.. so i could say something like okay but i don’t feel comfortable with sexual questions.

  450.  #450Senior Lady Vibe on February 21, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Uh, not “Omera.” Sometimes I just have to laugh at myself…

    It’s …omega 3 … anyway… yummy…

    Planters “NUT-rition OMEGA!!!-3 mix.”

  451.  #451tenny on February 21, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    # 225
    # 247

    Yes. Im triggered and I feel scared talking about marriage. He is in love with me and so intense. Like he wants to consume me. I feel sooooooo vulnerable. I started to feel pressured when he talked about being married next November, a year after we met. I still want to spend time getting closer to him. And I really like him, and love being with him, but I have feelings or CD song who I’m creating moments and having connection with. I want to experience this and come to a decision. I gave them both the no girlfriend speech that I don’t want to be a girlfriend, I want to be a wife and I’m not putting pressure on our relationship but I want to keep my options open until someone wants the same as I do. CD assertive responded he wanted to marry me and wanted to talk about it and was glad to know he has competition. CD song changed the subject and just held me close. I feel pressured to fall in love when my heart is so confused. I need to sleep. Im spiraling out of control, and I’m really put of control now

  452.  #452Aurora Girl on February 21, 2012 at 4:58 pm


    I say Absolutely!! you can set whatever rules you like that are totally comfortable for you! ie. “I don’t feel comfortable with sexual questions”….”or “for now leave political or religious stuff out”….. or “I feel comfortable keeping it light”…..etc..

    In fact you can use this boundary or guideline in any conversation at any phase of an acquaintance or relationship! And it feels great when someone respects it!

  453.  #453tenny on February 21, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    Elle. Maybe taking the focus off of him and doing lovely stuff for yourself during the evenings so it doesn’t matter if he asks you out. Can also do stuff for yourself during the day. Point is to focus on you, not him, and you may not gave those feelings. Im not great for advice today, but did not want you to feel no one is reading. Hugs to you

  454.  #454Sassy on February 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Again, thank you for the good wishes! Yes, I have two grown daughters, the oldest has two boys, ages 11 and 7. Those two boys have my heart. There is such a different feeling for grand kids, it’s amazing. My youngest daughter is the one that’s pregnant with her first baby, a little (already verrrryyyyy spoiled, lol) girl. She is due March 10. We are all really close and very excited for this baby girl to join our family. Mama had a real scare today, but all is well as of this moment.
    I can relate to soooo many of the stories here.
    Much love

  455.  #455Sun Goddess on February 21, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Trying to catch up on the blog makes me feel like I have been gone for weeks! Vegas was fun. There were times when our relationship was questioned by salespersons which triggered my insecurities about our relationship. I did cry and have an outburst on my birthday and LP said that is why we always “fall back” in our relationship.

    I realized that he is not every thing I want in a man though. 1-He is an annoying drunk.
    2-I don’t feel loved around him to the point that when he said it last night I didn’t say it back because I don’t “feel” the love he says he has for me. I’m not saying he doesn’t love me, but I just don’t feel it..I guess his love for me is not what I wished it were.
    3- He asks me to do things he could do for himself and when I say no, he acts like I am an awful unhelpful person.
    4-he is confusing. One minutes he is making plans for the future with me, the next he is saying something completely opposite.

    I could continue this list, but I am going to stop and look at the list and see what my responsibilities and nerves have to contribute to these thoughts. Maybe he is the one for me, but I am. It ready yet…I really don’t know.