Luvskool For Newlyweds In Los Angeles With Greta Hassel

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greta hasselI love Greta. She’s a brilliant/genius therapist/coach – and together with her new husband, Dennis Cohen, they’re an amazing team. They’ll be doing a workshop in Los Angeles on November 22nd.

I know we’re not much about “Newlywed” here – and just in case you’re in a relationship, in Los Angeles, and want some hands-on help where you don’t have to DO anything! –  Here’s the info:

Luvskool for Newlyweds:  A Day of Play, A Night of Love, A Lifetime of Bliss!

Saturday, November 22, 2014  9:30 am – 10:00 p.m. 

Remember your Honeymoon Glow?

Would you like to maintain, strengthen, or even revitalize it!  YOU CAN, with this fun, experiential workshop designed to give couples the foundation, skills and pathways to intimacy necessary to create a Lifetime of Love.

Luvskool for Newlyweds is a day-long immersion on the playground of relationship, based on game theory and scientific principles.

Facilitators, Greta Hassel (Marriage & Family Therapist) and Dennis Cohen (Family Law Attorney and Mediator) have over 50 years of combined experience in what works, and what doesn’t in a relationship.  They are passionate about empowering couples at the start of their marriage!

The playshop concludes with a “Night of Love”, an orchestrated co-creation, filled with creative, heart-centered, sensual processes (no nudity or sexual contact).

A recent participant summed up the experience: “My Man is yummier from being in your space.”  LUVSKOOL

Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and Intimacy Coach

3201 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 203
Santa Monica, Ca 90403

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Mistea1 on November 15, 2014 at 11:29 am

    With all the relationship movies out there written by men I’d feel gratified if someone would write one about a woman who does every thing wrong. Then she discovers your site and learns how to do it right. I am discovering that this way of communication is gentle, nurturing and respectful to men and women. I feel so much more relaxed, confident and able to get what I want without all the stress I usually have. It is the best way to find your forever man and I feel it lessons the heartache I read about here. I wrote a play once ong ago. I could start it and others could give their ideas and maybe get a more accomplished screen writer on board later on. What do you think about this?

  2.  #2Beloved on November 15, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    Mistea, along those lines is a movie called “Duty Dating”. It’s probably time for an update though, there are lots of puffy sleeves and polaroids 🙂

  3.  #3Beloved on November 15, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    I take it back, I just watched some of it again, no puffy sleeves… 🙂

  4.  #4Mistea1 on November 15, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Duty dating, it sounds soooo stuffy. I agree we need an update. Especially one that emphasizes CD!!

  5.  #5Beloved on November 15, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    Mistea – I’m pretty sure Dr. Pat’s “Duty Dating” was the inspiration for circular dating. It’s essentially the same concept, and she talks about it in the movie. One of the characters asks, “And what if he doesn’t call?”, the response is, that’s the purpose of Duty Dating, you’ll be so busy enjoying your full life, you won’t notice if he doesn’t call.

    It’s a fun movie, not as bad as it sounds, and it’s on YouTube if you want to check it out.

  6.  #6Femininewoman on November 15, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    This seem really interesting.

  7.  #7Beloved on November 15, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    Oh, sirens…tonight I’m polishing my online profile for another go and sitting with all of these feelings.
    I feel more available and stronger than ever before.
    Yet…I’m feeling…that deep, deep fear of the unknown.
    The fear of falling in love with someone who becomes someone totally different later in the relationship. The fear of being cheated on.
    Really, fear of pain and the unexpected.
    Now I see, why I’ve danced away from intimacy and bonding for so long.
    What if, what if, what if…
    I feel cold with fear.
    There’s just no way to know, how a relationship will go.
    I can trust my judgment and my instincts, weed out the obvious bad choices, and still…I could fall in love with someone who dies a month after we get married or something. There’s no way of knowing, no way of controlling.
    It hurts so much, feels so agonizing to feel so full up with love for someone, believe they are going to be around for a while, and discover suddenly they are gone.
    Tears are streaming down my face as I type this.
    My heart is so tender.
    Just the other night, I heard a sweet song about forgiveness that touched a place in my heart, brought up some of the gentlest feelings that I had for an ex a LONG time ago, 20 years ago…that hadn’t yet healed until I could feel all of that and cry cleansing tears.
    In my heart was a longing and begging for him to forgive me, please, forgive me for whatever I had done to make him leave.
    A wise, loving part of me held me, while I held my heart. I had done nothing wrong. Wanting to be forgiven and making it my fault made me feel like I had some control over the situation. So if I could just fix or change…whatever…then maybe he would forgive me and come back.
    He was my first true, blue love.
    I trusted him. And he was cheating on me.
    I didn’t even suspect. I. Trusted. Him.
    What if I trust again, and I’m wrong?
    I don’t want to feel betrayed or fooled like that again.
    And really, I can work the tools and utilize everything I’ve learned along the way and do my best and still…still…there’s no way to know for sure, no guarantee.
    It feels daunting.
    I feel cherished by my own self right now, loving me and my feelings.

  8.  #8Indigo on November 15, 2014 at 9:13 pm


    When you find the answer to that, please let me know.

    I feel like I vacillate between intense love and grief. My brother, horses I have lost, men I have cared for. Even D – I know he will most likely stay in my life until or if I decide to let him go, and most likely for the foreseeable future… but still he comes in and out of my life in his need for space at times, and it causes me a kind of grief which I don’t know how to process. It’s funny because I know he has not died, and I know he has not really left me, and I know it’s going to be ok, but in the moment I have no idea what to do with those feelings.

    I feel as if every time someone I love leaves me, the world doesn’t make sense. Eventually I learn to love the chaos a little bit, but I still can’t really fathom why I was made so tender-hearted when it makes these kinds of things close to unbearable. I feel everything – and while that can be a profoundly beautiful and wonderful thing at times, it means you can’t “switch off”. You have no choice but to try and love yourself through the ocean of feelings that you are feeling, and that can feel hard.

  9.  #9lovetodance on November 15, 2014 at 10:39 pm


    I feel so much as i read your words…i identify with not being able to switch off feeling everything…and your words of ‘loving yourself through the ocean of feelings…’ is helpful… feels like a safety preserver being thrown into the deep water…..

    your words…..

    the tender hearted-ness
    the grief
    the unbearableness of caring at times

    yes …i understand these feelings….

    i feel i have learned to block my heart, yet not really, and i am left with a sadness…

    i can hardly bear the suffering of the certain dogs and people that i walk by daily….
    so i learn to not feel and this is not the answer

    i really do feel at times that my heart is breaking….

    i felt that with the man in the park, who i have not seen, such a beautiful human…. a tender hearted soul….making his way thru this life with his own dis-abilities and abilities like all of us….
    and yet his particular flavor was heartbreaking to me….his alone-ness and lostness…..
    i guess it just reminded me of mine , with its different flavor…and i just got so frightened of his need being so great….his appearance has made an impact on me and i am still sorting out what it has meant for me…

    but i do feel sad….
    and i can’t push those feelings away
    and i don’t want to
    i just don’t want to continually be engulfed by them…or have it be my default setting
    or a habitual emotional state that is just so familiar and comfortable in its uncomfortable way….

  10.  #10Victoria on November 16, 2014 at 4:17 am

    He sent me a very sweet ( and slightly naive) love letter last night. I was thinking whether to reply… My true feelings – only an idiot would be writing me how much he loves me instead of fixing a date with me for Sunday… I so do not want to hurt him… I do not want to be mean to him and i know if i fully break it off i will break his heart and mine. I wrote to him that i love him too and i miss him… And i accepted a date with another cd. C est la vie.

  11.  #11prplpsn28 on November 16, 2014 at 4:37 am

    Last night was absolutely horrible. I went out with friends and H showed up. I thought he might but was sure I could handle it. Until I saw him having fun and a woman who is supposed to be my friend was obviously flirting with him. H texted me a couple times and I totally let my emotions get the best of me and I’m sure he sensed my disappointment, hurt, neediness etc. I was so upset I had to leave. It was a total disaster and I feel like I’m back at the beginning. 🙁

  12.  #12Yvette on November 16, 2014 at 5:00 am

    I want to understand better how feminine energy works in conversation.

    I’ve had the circumstance a few times lately, when speaking to different men, where I’ve said something like, “I feel really good speaking to you.”
    And he’s said something along the lines of, “Yeah I’m just not good at coming up with topics.”
    Or “I’m happy and want to talk to you, I just don’t have anything to say.”

    I want to enjoy conversation with a man.
    I don’t want to climb out of my Feminine to create conversation.
    I feel exhausted and annoyed when I do this.

    I feel good about silence in conversation.
    I’m able to sit silently with a man.
    I did this in a phone conversation with a man last week with results that.. oh my gosh felt so good!!
    So I feel good about not trying to fill silences.

    I also feel reasonably confident about introducing a topic for negotiation..
    “Hey Honey. I would like to talk to you about x. Is now a good time for that?”
    If no, “When would be a good time to talk about it?”

    What I want to understand is:
    There are times when there are things I would like to talk about, but I feel unsure about introducing them to the conversation out of fear of accidently leading.
    For example, I got some great test results back the other day that I’d really like to tell him about.
    Is it appropriate for me to say,
    “Ohh! I got some test results back today that I feel so excited to tell you about! What do you think?” – (Also, Do I need to add “what do you think?” to something like this?)

    I’m aware that conversation is one of the places I have over functioned in the past.
    I’d really appreciate hearing some thoughts on the subject. Are there any tweaks you recommend?

    I really want to know, being in the Feminine, am I able to introduce topics to conversation? (Provided I remain leaning back with my focus on me and my honest feelings?)
    – If I can, how do I best do that with my words?
    – May I please have an example?

    I would love some help with this. I listened through all Rori’s material I could find for this information and I don’t get it, I feel so stuck and slimey! Ugh!!
    I feel tight and whoosey with it at the moment. I feel hazy and hard. I don’t like how it feels.

    I also.. want to say thank you to all the Sirens who have replied to my messages these last few months.
    I feel curdly that I don’t respond to Women like the ones above me. I feel sad and I feel compelled to respond, but at the moment I don’t want to say anything too much, because the temptation to lunge into my Masculine feels very strong.
    I want to be respectful of this space. I don’t want to intrude.
    I do however, feel very awed when I read the messages on here.
    I feel fascinated by the braveness.
    I feel grateful to be here amongst you all.

    Thank you,

  13.  #13Mistea1 on November 16, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Good morning Sirens,
    Beloved 6, “Wanting to be forgiven and making it my fault made me feel I had some control over the situation. Very insightful indeed. It was a trip to realize that it’s not my fault because then I know I’m dealing with another human being who I can’t control.

    The other thing you said was, “so full up with love for someone.” This really touched me as I have been considering this as well. That’s why I like Rori’s tools for self-esteem and confidence. She’s helped me realize that as I am full of love for myself and am love itself then if anyone leaves or doesn’t come “full up with love remains.” I’ve found it is quite a process though but worthy of pursuit. I’m still working on this and may be for the rest of my life.

    Victoria 9 The comment to me was, “I haven’t seen you in forever,” instead of making a time to see me. Aargh! that is so frustrating! You are right, no meanness to them. It’s where they are and has to be painful for them too. I can tell it is painful for MusicTd to come forward and to not come forward. This experience is indelibly etched in both our essences though. The thing I am doing is focusing on resting in Love and that’s all I can do. I don’t know what else to do. (perhaps that’s my lesson, realizing I don’t know nor can control anything.) Any ‘miracle occurs’ comments here will be gratefully appreciated!

  14.  #14Femininewoman on November 16, 2014 at 6:43 am

    “Hey Honey. I would like to talk to you about x. Is now a good time for that?”
    If no, “When would be a good time to talk about it?”

    Yvette I have stopped saying I want to talk. I have learned that it translates into “you are in trouble”. Even at work.

  15.  #15Andrea on November 16, 2014 at 7:14 am

    I get what Feminine Woman is saying… “I want to talk”

    Yesterday I said, “I honestly feel so frightened and shaky right now.”
    He looked at me with his forehead all bunched up. “Really??? Why?”
    I said, “Because I hate winter driving.”
    It was my truck. He had come with me to drop a co-worker off in the boondocks.
    “Honey,” he said. “Pull over right now. Let me drive. I don’t want you to feel that way.”

    I don’t know if it’s feminine communication but I always know when I want to “talk”, it’s cause I feel something. I try to go into what I feel. Then I just share with him.. not the topic… but what I feel.
    And leave it up to him to ask me the questions that fill in the blank.

    I feel so excited right now.
    Or… I feel so pensive and nervous right not. I feel so vulnerable. I feel so bunched up and all tied in knots.
    Why? What’s going on?

  16.  #16Azure Blu on November 16, 2014 at 8:16 am

    Andrea #14….
    Ahhhh… yes… I love reading this…
    how perfectly this worked… He got to solve a problem and feel sooooo masculine and you were cherished and cared for!!!!

    THIS is exactly what my RR coach, Natalina, has been getting me to practice…
    It feels like me listening to my Drama Queen…
    I am learning to listen to me while in the presence of others… share those feelings
    “I am feeling anxious, scared, rejected, happy, connected
    AND man/parent/friend and I can have a wonderful sharing of information!!!

  17.  #17Dominique on November 16, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Yvette – 11- Sharing of yourself, feeling excited and happy about anything at all and voicing it is not leading a conversation. As long as you have no agenda or are not looking for something back, such as validation, as long as it’s you being you, authentic, absolutely share. Having had to learn new and maybe better ways to express yourself which may have also included uncovering/discovering what it is you really feel so that you can do just that, also allows for a real sharing of yourself.

    You will feel it when you go too far into leaning forward which could vary given the man and the moment at hand. You will feel a subtle or not so subtle withdrawal in energy from him, a pulling away. So you sink back into your own energy, soften, and open your heart again.


  18.  #18Indigo on November 16, 2014 at 9:02 am

    lovetodance 8,

    Switching off my emotions doesn’t work… mostly because I’m unable to, also because it’s just not who I am.

    The only thing that does work is redirecting my feelings to what feels good. Once I’ve given my feelings the time they require to be felt, to go looking for something which makes me feel joyful, pleasurable, calm or soothed. Sometimes it can take a while for that shift to happen.

    My mom reminded me today to let things go. Let it go and switch to something which makes me feel good. For me, ritual and routine is very comforting, planning out my day provides a lot of support from me to me. That is how I get through hard times.

  19.  #19Indigo on November 16, 2014 at 9:07 am

    Yvette 11,

    Initiating topics in conversation does not have to be masculine. Talking about your passions for example, men find extremely attractive. I find it’s not so much about not initiating talk as it is about being in the moment, being sensitive to the energy exchange. But if you get a little excited and carried away, so what? Men will respond to how you feel about yourself… as long as you’re being confident and soft and not overpowering, why not experiment? I have experimented with talking a lot and hardly talking at all, depending on how I was feeling in the moment, and because I was not too invested in the outcome it never affected how the man saw me. They respond to you being happily and authentically yourself.

  20.  #20Andrea on November 16, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Mistea & Beloved, yes, that re-occuring theme of, “I’m not in control.”
    Has me feeling extremely vulnerable. Not sad, or scared, or pensive.. just vulnerable. And I say to myself, “Vulnerable is okay and I am safe.” I envision my soft exposed body being met with pillows of cotton or marshmallows or soft billowing clouds. I smile at him but he thinks he sees fear behind my eyes and he asks, “What’s wrong baby?”

    I say, “Not wrong. I just feel vulnerable.”
    He pulls me close to him, wraps me in his arms, says, “Close your eyes baby. Lean into me. You’re with me now. You’re safe.”
    And just for that tiny moment, I feel safe. I feel complete relaxed fullness. It’s just a moment. I let everything go and melt into him.

    I don’t know what tomorrow will bring, or the future, or the next minute. Just right now I feel effortless, weightless. And he says, “It’s okay to feel vulnerable with me baby. I love it when you express yourself to me. I love knowing what you’re feeling.”

  21.  #21Mistea1 on November 16, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Andrea 19, Aahhh, nice.

  22.  #22Andrea on November 16, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Again, yesterday, I just had the best time with my new CD. RRguy.

    He has to stay in my town for ten hours on rest before he can back on a train to head where ever else he needs to go. So, when I got off work, he asked me to come to his hotel room. He said, “I just want to hold you. I want to order take in and lay here and hold you in my arms for hours.”

    I understood completely because that is exactly what I wanted as well. I just wanted to BE with him, completely and uninterrupted by the world around us. I wanted that so bad.

    But I also want something else. Something that isn’t being offered right now by him. So I told him, “Oh my I feel such a longing to be held by you, to be wrapped in your arms. But I also feel conflicted with other emotions. So I’m not ready for that yet.”

    He said, “I don’t care if you want to come to my hotel room, or meet me somewhere, or come pick me up and let me take you out. I just want to be with you.”

    So I went home and took care of my home stuff, then I texted him that I’d feel comfortable meeting him at a restaurant. He picked the place and we met there. And it was just so wonderful. So so wonderful.

    He asked the waiter for a booth, then he guided me to my seat and he scooted in right next to me. I felt cocooned by his big body, his arm around me. He kept pulling me closer and asked if he could kiss me several times.

    Then we started getting into a deep discussion about philosophy. He said, “Wait, this really sounds important to you. Let me sit on the other side of the table so I can look into your eyes.”

    And then we talked and talked and talked. He’s so present with me. His eyes don’t wander. His attention is not on his phone, or anywhere else. He listens and then he expresses himself to me in such masculine tones that I feel overwhelmed sometimes and I gush to him: “I feel so open right now to what you’re saying. This is crazy, I’ve never thought about it like that before. I feel like you’re showing me this whole new world.”

    And he beams. He told me, “I just can’t stop smiling when I’m with you. I’m grinning from ear to ear.”

    He’s said that before. I feel so happy that he smiles with me.

    Then I needed to give a co-worker a ride and our date ended but he told me he didn’t want it to end. I said, “I feel cranky when I have to drive these back roads in the winter.”
    He said, “Let me come with you. I’ll keep you company.”

    Then finally I had to drop him off back at his hotel. It was almost time for his ride to be leaving for his train. He kept asking me, in between kisses, to just come to his hotel room and, “you can sit on the bed while I pack. I just don’t want to leave you. I don’t want to say goodbye.”

    During our date he asked me if he could come to my home and cook a really great meal for me sometime. And he asked if I would ever consider driving to his town and letting him show me around and show me his house and introduce me to his boys.

    I said.. yes and yes and yes to all of it.

    I got gabby.. that kind of nervous, fill in the silences (like Yvette was talking about) needing to run the conversation at different points. Then I would catch myself and say, “Ugh. I feel silly. I keep talking.”

    And he said, “Please keep talking. I’m listening to everything you say.” (Oh no.. heeheehee)

    And of course I did not go to his hotel room. He kissed me goodbye and made no promises about when he would see me again or if he would call me or text me or anything. And I didn’t ask either.

    He said, “Thank you so much. Just for being you. I mean it. Thank you for being you. I had a really great time.”

    And I melted and smiled all the way home. I feel so very good about myself. I wanted him so badly, physically, you know? But I know that I want more. I want so much more than just one hotel room a couple afternoons in the winter. I want it all. So I lean way back…. and trust…. right? That he sees it all in me.

  23.  #23prplpsn28 on November 16, 2014 at 11:19 am

    Feeling very emotional, jealous, sad, hurt, empty, alone, angry, etc. I just want it to stop! And it won’t no matter what I do. I just love him so much and want him back.

  24.  #24prplpsn28 on November 16, 2014 at 11:21 am

    And it worries me to think that I let him see my emotions last night. Ugh! Just shoot me now!

  25.  #25Liquid Light on November 16, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Wow, Andrea, that sounds amazing! 🙂

    I had a date the other night that was just so-so. He texted me today and wants to know if I’d like to see him again. I’m not into it. I hate being in this situation. I’m not sure what to say. I just don’t want to deal with it. I guess i was thinking of something like this “I enjoyed our date the other night too. I’m not feeling that elusive chemistry though and so was wondering if we could be friends…” Ughh that sounds so lame. Truth be told, I’m not that excited about being his friend either. I don’t really enjoy his company that much. Ughh. What if I just don’t respond at all? That’s not very nice though is it? Help!

  26.  #26RileyTheOwl on November 16, 2014 at 12:48 pm


  27.  #27RileyTheOwl on November 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I am so totally no expert at all, but I want to say that if I ever don’t feel like answering, I don’t answer… It doesn’t matter if it’s rude to them, because it’s nice to yourself.

  28.  #28lovetodance on November 16, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    i am wondering if ‘you are a nice person and i don’t feel the chemistry i need to feel to keep dating….i wish you the best’….. something like that?

    i always imagine what i would want to hear….silence or an honest response…even if its a no…
    and then again when i don’t hear anything i can make up my own story….and sometimes that makes me feel better….

    sorry for the not here or there suggestion…..

  29.  #29lovetodance on November 16, 2014 at 1:33 pm


  30.  #30lovetodance on November 16, 2014 at 1:34 pm


    thank you thank you for the narrative….so happy to read it …..

    yes to you and all that you are feeling and embodying!

  31.  #31Kristina on November 16, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I know how it feels. The so-so dates may feel more frustrating than the bad ones… We don’t want to hurt the guy and we know he is not the one either. Rori would probably suggest to give him another chance, even two. But if you feel done with him, how about the following response “I had a nice time, thank you! And I don’t feel a spark. I wish you all the best in your search.” When I dated I would say things like that at the end of the date. Most guys take it well. They are grateful that they will not have to deal with unanswered texts or calls. Some take it badly and want to know “why.” No need to answer. Just the broken record of “I had a good time and there is no spark.”

  32.  #32Sassy on November 16, 2014 at 2:15 pm


    My condolences on the loss of your father. I’m sorry you’re feeling so lost, and sad right now.

    Love to you

  33.  #33Sassy on November 16, 2014 at 2:17 pm


    I’m sorry you’re hurting. I, too, am in a similar situation. I feel for you. Just know you’re not alone.

  34.  #34Gemini Goddess on November 16, 2014 at 3:17 pm


    I’m so inspired by your posts…all the detail…and insight. Thank you. I feel I have so much to learn, and I feel grateful to realize that.


    I so understand how you feel. I’m new participating on “Siren Island” and my communicating feels a bit clumsy to me. It feels so different just reading vs. putting it out there.


    I did something un-sireny Friday night that though it seems to have all worked out, I’m trying to learn from. Early in the day D and I were texting back and forth. I’m working a desk job so can’t talk, and I like the company during the day. He sends me sweet messages, and a youtube video of “When will I See You Again”. All very nice.

    We hadn’t seen each other for three days as we are both on the same custody schedules. His son is 15, so sometimes we have a “sneak-over date” if his son goes out. Mine are 5 and 9, so I’m not going anywhere. My kids know him and like him a whole lot, but I like time just with them, so sneak-over happens when they’re in bed.

    I had had an otherwise rotten day with work, and a couple other issues. He was very kind. At one point I said “So, when will I see you again?” in reference to the video. First un-sireny thing. He responded “Maybe tonight, but probably tomorrow because I’m trying to convince my son to go to a movie with me.” Fair enough. We text about a couple other things and then it drops off at about 3:00. So far so good, other than my leaning in.

    Fast forward to 10:00, and I haven’t heard anything. I knew he was probably out with his son, but I felt so angry not to have gotten a quick heads up, especially when (in our relationship) we hadn’t seen each other for a few days, he sent ME the video, said we might see each other, and he knew I’d had a rotten day. I feel so immature typing all that out, but I know this stuff does and will trigger me. Maybe it comes from my Mom being such a HUGE flake growing up. I feel SO unimportant when people are late or flaky. I just feel myself BOIL every time, like heat is absolutely rising off of me. I just wanted him to let me know. I texted instead of calling or leaving a message because it feels safer to write it out, think about it, tone it down, whatever, and my voice won’t betray me. I can’t stand over reacting, but I can’t help that this triggers me SO MUCH. I’ve explained this to him before regarding “just let me know if you’re going to be late” and he does. I used feeling messages, and he totally got it. I didn’t do so well this time.

    I wrote “Darling, When we have “maybe”, or even “probably not”, plans, please kindly give me a quick heads up when they become “definitely not” plans. No big deal if plans aren’t going to happen. Just let me know. Love- Me”

    To which he responded “Okay, Sorry. I fell asleep. Tough week. Just woke up from your text. Tomorrow for sure if you will have me. And Monday a real date. Love Me back”.

    It was a very nice response, though I was now kind of burned that he hadn’t even gone out with his son. I felt really really unimportant and uninspiring. I felt SO angry for a new reason.

    So I responded- “Oh, alright. Maybe. :)”

    He responded “Are you playing hard to get?”

    I said “I don’t have to play hard to get. I AM hard to get. 🙂 Going to bed now.”

    The next day he invited me and my kids out to breakfast, which I declined because we had plans. So he brought me a late and a bag of fancy pastries. He invited us for dinner. Again, genuinely had plans. He asked if he was still invited over, and then came over with drink fixings. I really adore this guy. He puts every ounce of effort in. We talked about everything, except what I’ve put here because it’s taken me a few days to sort it out to this degree. I felt so happy, and when he left all felt right between us.

    I vacillate between feeling like I’m too nice, and feeling like I’m making a big deal where there isn’t one. I don’t want to do an emotional push-pull thing that eventually drives him away. Before RR I would express my every angst. You can imagine how that went once the initial heart and flowers stage was over. My family didn’t express anything until it reached a doormat/bitter manipulation stage, and then there were angry, pent-up, character assassination arguments, so I thought expressing everything as it came up was an improvement. I have spent my adult life (43 and divorced) trying to unravel this including majoring in psychology, which helped zero. I want, more than anything in this world (after my kids welfare) to get a handle on this wild zig zag I do, and NOT sabotage this relationship. I am SO much better after a year of RR. At least I don’t instantly (over)react and then apologize and then get angry at myself (UGH!), but looking back at our conversation, I can still see it equally both ways…too nice…too uptight.

    Sock it to me (but gently, please :))

  35.  #35Gemini Goddess on November 16, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    Maybe I should add, I was physically (but not sexually) abused growing up, and have a paranoia that I’m missing some kind of big picture that’s obvious to others. I feel like I’m overprotective? Not reactive enough? I just don’t trust my judgement and THAT is my nasty voice.

    I married my former husband because he absolutely did not trigger me at all. Didn’t work out for exactly that reason.

  36.  #36Gemini Goddess on November 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm

    I must be so terrified by my own emotions. Rereading my post, I watered it down… even here. So concerned with the story. Unsireny. I feel kind of short of breath and tense in my shoulders, and fighting back tears, and hopeless, and overwhelmed, and ridiculous. What the H*LL do I have to complain about???… and yet I could cry at ANY moment of ANY day? I would like to be authentic, and I have absolutely MASTERED my act, and I don’t know how to shed it because it works, except I’m so lonely and so disappointed by everyone who seems to LIKE it.

  37.  #37Olivia on November 16, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    Gemini Goddess:
    I can relate to this —
    I was abused emotionally as a child and didn’t have a place of safety and I can just relate to what you are saying —
    hugs and love!

  38.  #38Olivia on November 16, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    oh and Rori recently warned us about not giving advice on the blog—
    But I can’t help saying just one thing —
    Which is that shedding my “act” little by little in baby steps has led to a lot of positive change for me

  39.  #39Mistea1 on November 16, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    Beloved. thanks I will check out You Tube for Duty Dating.
    Well, MusicTd is officially kicked to the curb. I talked to one of my newer acquaintances as she knows him fairly well. It’s been hard finding out about people here as I am so new I don’t know who to ask. She seems to be reliable and she agreed to help introduce me around. This guy makes ‘wishy, washy’ look like a complement. He saw the two of us talking at the reception so he will know I know. I will always treasure the gifts of music I receved and I’ve already said thanks and that’s enough. So on to hopefully better men. Younger would be good. Talk to you all another time.

  40.  #40Indigo on November 16, 2014 at 9:06 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    I think I know how that feels. And what I will say is that for a long time (like 2 or 3 years) I *did* cry at any moment of any day. I cried at the drop of a hat, I cried several times a week, sometimes every day in a week. Anything could set me off, and I made use of the door of my office to give myself that space to cry countless times. I spent a lot of time just feeling the pain that would come up. I wondered if the tears would ever stop… but they did. It seemed like they just needed to be felt, and permission to exist for as long as they needed. And, tears are healing. So much strength and healing was there on the other side of those tears. I still cry but it’s only every now and again.

    Guess I’m writing this for me more than for you. But I’ve just realized that facing your issues can be very overwhelming, but you just have to dive in… there’s a healed life waiting for you. I’ve seen it, and I’m not as scared any more.

  41.  #41Emerson on November 16, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    Hi Sirens…
    Ah yes…duty dating!!
    A term I’ve heard before….I feel curious…

    Today I reconnected with a friend from the past…and realize I’ve been holding a grudge against her. I knew I was. I finally felt ready to respond to her reaching out. I also realized that things have changed and our friendship will never be the same. I still feel bitter about some things that happened a few years ago. It was work related and she put business/money before friendship. I understand in some ways, in other ways, not. She could have trusted me and she chose not to, and watched her own back. I still feel prickly. Answering her email is one step I am taking to try to heal this prickly, grudge feeling.
    I want to let it go.
    Or do I?

    She is also in the era of when I met RecycledCD and so many memories of the three of us spending time together and laughing…etc….enjoying being young and full of life….it feels painful and like a sharp knife…slicing through a window in time….
    it feels strange…

  42.  #42Emerson on November 16, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    I also responded to two men from my online dating site…both seem like really nice guys and stable…I refuse to talk to people who give me that uncertain vibe like there is something unstable brewing beneath the surface….I don’t get that vibe at all so far from either of these guys…

    I also have a coworker who is very flirty with me today (different from WorkCrush)…this is another guy…and he’s so funny and attracted to me, it’s hilarious and cute and sweet, and I just eat it up, and unzipping my heart all day at work today. He told me I “hypnotize” him….haha….I wasn’t even doing anything!! He’s gauging his chances with me and dropping hints….he’s cute and sweet but I told him I believe in love and he’s told me he doesn’t believe in marriage or long term…and I totally want that…
    so I don’t expect him to change for me….he is who he is…I told him that too….
    I accept him 100% for who he is….as a friend.

    After work I went to the mall to decompress (it was a stressful day) and continued to unzip my heart….as soon as I did a man working in the shop said “hello miss! How are you this evening?” full of smiles….he was so sweet…I replied and smiled back…wow this unzip tool is something else!!!!

  43.  #43Emerson on November 16, 2014 at 10:52 pm

    Sirens, watch this on youtube, what a siren! So cute and she has such a great energy….
    I love it!!
    Search for it on youtube..
    Alex Gaudino feat. Mario – Beautiful (Official Video)

  44.  #44Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 3:01 am

    ((((Teresa)))) #136 from last thread
    Peace and gentle comfort to you….
    Grief is a taskmaster which requires us to take much loving care of US…
    time and grief counseling, I have found, help MUCH…
    I don’t know if you have a hospice center near you…
    I attended group grief classes (once a week for a month or two) which were VERY comforting…

  45.  #45Millie on November 17, 2014 at 7:17 am

    Haha, for some reason I got confused on the threads and posted on one from Thursday. I responded to a post by Andrea and Kim, hopefully it makes sense somewhat! Haha, silly me.

    Andrea– I hear you on being turned off and angered by the neediness of some men and also the frustration of things being centered around them. The pof guy that i did not meet, sent me texts after I cancelled saying “Whiskey is no fun alone” and “eating is no fun alone.” I felt so annoyed I didn’t reply. If I can be blunt here…what bothers me about that is that I feel like I am seen as a solution to his problems. He is bored and he is lonely. I feel like this has nothing to do with me. It could be any girl. It also bothers me because I want want I want to be taken into account. I had told him I was starving, and he made no effort to remedy that, instead asked ME to join him. I feel like, in scenarios like this, the man is not masculine, he is feminine and seeking to receive from a woman while also acting like a baby in need of attention. It feels draining. Texts like that suck energy from me. The next day he texts again, I do not answer. Hours go by and he texts again “sorry?” I told him for the second time that I had a very busy day and was riding all morning. He responds “and you didn’t invite me?”
    Again I ignored it. Since when it is my job to invite a man into my life who I haven’t met and who hasn’t taken me on a real date? Since when do I owe him anything? sorry you need entertainment, go find it yourself! Ugh…I didn’t use “I feel turned off” because I don’t want to continue talking to him.

    Kim–It’s so interesting how different man handle and respond to different situations isn’t it! Man A seems to be thinking only of himself, where Man B wanted to spend time with you in any setting. I totally understand wanting a masculine man who steps up and takes care of things, and has ideas beyond what other give him.

    So there is a guy in my life trying hard to get me…but unfortunately I am NOT attracted to him and the thought of kissing him, much less sleeping with him repulses me. However, he is giving me gifts and trying to take me out to the movies and to Disneyland, offering to buy me a pass. I don’t feel right accepting because I don’t authentically WANT to spend time with him. It’s great he is so masculine in the sense of doing and taking care of me, but I also feel a needy vibe from him, like even though I was clear that I don’t have feelings for him beyond friendship, he is still trying to change my mind. He says he is determined to. That actually does not make me feel honored at all. And I wonder why he does not just ask me what I am looking for in a man? My feelings seem disregarded and I don’t feel like my desires are even important. If he asked me, what kind of man are you looking for? And listened…that would be different. Instead he only sees me as something he wants, but what about what I want?

  46.  #46Femininewoman on November 17, 2014 at 7:25 am

    “I don’t have feelings for him beyond friendship, he is still trying to change my mind. He says he is determined to”

    Millie I see this as masculine instinct and believe it is great when the man takes the role of the convincer. It shows me I have to do nothing. I have experienced so many men who subscribe to this kind of thinking. They believe they have to do the work.

  47.  #47Indigo on November 17, 2014 at 7:38 am

    Got to kind of disagree with you there, Feminine Woman.

    I find convincing to be very icky. If I don’t feel something for a man or feel as if I can love him or be interested in him in that way, I do not want to be convinced otherwise. For a start in my case it is a total waste of time as I am very strong-willed. I want my choices and wishes respected.

  48.  #48Kim on November 17, 2014 at 8:46 am

    Al, it boils down to is that men offer and we can either accept or not. The choice is ours.
    If something no longer suits us, or we don’t feel remotely attracted to a man, we can’t blame him for trying, but I am also one who would rather not spend my valuable time with a man whom I could not even kiss, unless he really IS just a friend.

    I also heard you, Indigo, about the grief thing, I have felt that with variois people/scenarios and men in my life, and it is obviously a feeling that will always be with us on and off throughout life – thanks to reading copious amounts of psychology books I came to accept if not like this fact.
    I found that the ‘right’ men don’t leave me feeling too much of that though, as I believe when I feel loved when I am with him, without him etc., and a man is not withdrawing on a cyclical basis, I feel much more balanced.
    I decided that whole hot/cold malarkey that some men just have as an MO, and are never able to offer more than that, no matter how great they are otherwise…I prefer to go completely cold and cut them learning with those types is finished.
    I admire that you are able to stay open to it, and I have been following your story and it has amazed me how you navigate this. I could not, and Inwould not want it anymore, but it is so great how you always come back to you and your focus is on you.
    Kinda cool.

  49.  #49Kim on November 17, 2014 at 9:07 am

    I really cut MoM loose. He sent me an email today how sad he feels, hoe sad it feels to think of me with someone else, and how we are so compatible and how sad and heartbroken he is.
    I don’t feel sad. I feel angry and relieved.
    Angry because I summise that if he really wanted to keep me, instead ofnfeeling sad, he would want to work through the issues, cut loose the ex and actually step up. But no.
    Relieved because I really see that no matter how long Inwould have stayed open to this man, feeling sad and not doing anything about it, would have really made ME feel sad when my time comes to leave and he just waves me good bye at tye airport.
    I am imagining he takes me to the airport and the phone rings with the name of his ex on it, with some of her minor whims and needs. I would probably strangle him.
    Jeez, I feel so done with all this passivity and feeling messages and feminine energy, I have to check whether I have gown a penis…because it surely feels my masculine energy just wants to roar.
    Sadness never got ME anywhere….
    Ok. Onwards and upwards.
    Gave him plenty of changes to step up.
    I am NOT sad.

  50.  #50Femininewoman on November 17, 2014 at 9:23 am

    Disagree with me, that’s fine it doesn’t change the fact that they try. Also just because you don’t want that doesn’t mean they won’t.

    Once when discussing the same topic with a colleague at work he asked me how many weddings have I gone to and heard the man say how much the woman did not initially like the guy? How much he kept trying and trying until he won. I had to admit that it was a significant number of times. I have so many girlfriends who admit the same thing. How the guy had to try to hard over and over again to convince the girl. Experiencing convincing behavior can be very icky yes but a man will keep trying, even years later if a woman remains unmarried or unattached. Some men will keep trying even when you are attached, they want what others want. They believe in winning which is why they will try to convince if they truly want you. A woman who a man works for and wins is a woman who will likely be cherished.

  51.  #51Kim on November 17, 2014 at 9:31 am

    49 FW yup. If a masculine man wants a woman, unless she actually gets almost rude and cuts him off, he will keep trying..and trying…until he gets fed up or finds someone else.
    I witnessed this maaaaany times.
    I have respect for that.
    They DO cherish what they had to work for, so do we (jobs, property etc). Normal human nature.
    This is why we feel so turned off by feminine men.
    They want us to do that work and to catch them.

  52.  #52Indigo on November 17, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Yes I know they try, Feminine Woman.

    I have been in this situation a couple of times where a man was convinced he could make me fall in love with him and I did not like it.

    What I was disagreeing with was this: “I believe it is great when the man takes the role of the convincer.”

  53.  #53Femininewoman on November 17, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Okay Indigo. In human dynamics these things do come up, whether we like them or not. What I basically was saying is I prefer not to be the one playing the convincer role. That way I get to do the choosing or the rejecting rather than the other way around. For me, it is great when I can remain aware of these things so I don’t participate in role reversal.

  54.  #54Femininewoman on November 17, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Yes Kim. I have one who likes to play the catch me if you can game. I believe it is because he has experienced so many women chasing him. I have experienced him saying “I will call you in 2 minutes and 33 seconds” even though he has no intention of calling back.

    Little boy games.

  55.  #55Kim on November 17, 2014 at 9:45 am

    53 yeah, I have a CD who is very desirable and has been chased. I am training him to make plans in advance by not agreeing to any same day dates.
    I am a planner and plan out my work/free time early on in the day. Even if I have nothing on, I have my day planned….he is slowly understanding that but did get really pissed…
    I did not care if he ever called again…but of course he did.
    Ah, men.

  56.  #56Beloved on November 17, 2014 at 9:54 am

    OMG I found a guy online that I actually feel interested in and I feel so jittery and nervous and like a schoolgirl that I don’t even know what to say.
    I feel like taking a chance and sending a message, and at the same time I feel like maybe I should lean back and see if he initiates something besides a ‘like’.

  57.  #57Indigo on November 17, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Kim 47,

    Thank you. I was having this conversation with my mom yesterday. She feels as you do, she would definitely rather protect herself from this pain, she would rather cut loose her feelings before she experiences something like that. She fears that pain, and I fully respect that, but I don’t fear it.

    I’m neither afraid of feeling it, nor afraid of what it will do to me. That is not always the case of course, I make sensible decisions in my best interests all the time. But if the stakes are high enough, no, the threat of grief or pain is not remotely enough to keep me away. I’ve always been that way. Difficult people or people with issues do not scare me away if I feel there is a bond that can be worked with.

  58.  #58Mistea1 on November 17, 2014 at 11:01 am

    I also feel that if there is a bond or high stakes it is worth it to keep going in difficulty or threat of grief or pain. The warning signs, I ignored them again and again even when I had dreams about it. Then I decided on the basis of not stepping up to the plate on something he had initiated. I thought at least I did all I could. I did that with the marriage too. When I left that there was sadness and a kind of finality that made it easier to let it go. At least in my mind anyway. I certainly didn’t want to second guess myself later, now that would be painful and I couldn’t take that.

  59.  #59Victoria on November 17, 2014 at 11:31 am

    I too am not afraid of grief. I am learning to love my grief and my anger, they are here to protect me.
    But i have not been with them for a while. I
    need to share that the no-lean forward diet is producing amazing results… F. made plans today for things to do with me at Christmas. Very very well! I am almost worried how well this is working…

  60.  #60Kim on November 17, 2014 at 11:33 am

    56 Indigo, me too, I used to….until I found it got too destructive.
    I had a very difficult mother and tried for the longest time to please her and accept her maltreatment or not knowing better or whatever it was. It stopped when it got too bad.
    The same with men….
    In the end it is about self preservation and I decided I would rather feel happy and at peace than off balance. It took me until last year to fully learn this. I am 39.
    Now, I have no problems letting go. Love? Difficult to love people who are not ‘all in’ or have my back..I tend to lose myself in that and I found it no longer serves me.
    I didn’t have that same awareness that you have, that it is your choice to do this….I kinda stuck with things because i thought this is what one did. I thought I was being kind bla bla.
    In the end, I do believe also when we get older, tolerance of those who drift in and out of our lives at their pleasure, wears thin eventually.
    Well, it did with me.
    I don’t feel this grief and separation thing so much anymore, I don’t have any really difficult people in my life anymore if I am honest. Nobody is perfect, me neither, so I guess we are all difficult to a degree. Depends on what we can handle and feel good with.
    I don’t think loving someone and accepting them means I have to let them make my life more difficult. Of course I love my mother, but if I let her close, she would destroy me and I would always feel on edge..and I am past that.
    And I am well past it with guys who are ambivalent also.
    I just cut one loose and he was always in front of me, making dates and being sweet but never stepping up. I was tired and afraid of fallong for him and nothing ever changing, so..
    I guess I have become so self protective and mercenary because I have deep feelings and am a sensitive person….and need to be with people who respect that and understand ‘me’, not me understanding their whims all the time.
    Maybe my mother and family situation has just worn me out, could be, but I am a lot happier without those complications in the name of love.
    I lavish the love I used to lavish on those difficult and lost souls now on myself. And it feels GOOD 🙂

  61.  #61Mistea1 on November 17, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Well said! excellent. For me with this one the end result was the same whether I cut it off early or not. I had plenty of warning signs from the get go. I’ll certainly consider this in the future. thanks

  62.  #62Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    ((((purple)))) #23

  63.  #63Gemini Goddess on November 17, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Oliva 38 and Indigo 40

    Thank you, both. Feels so good to be understood. I’m really blown away by your comments. I feel so encouraged, and trying to get better at feeling messages. Not feeling very articulate, yet.

    Oddly, my first (very long) comment involving a particular scenario is stuck in moderation. Makes the other two make more sense, but my goodness, the authenticity issue is at the source of it.

  64.  #64Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    Emerson #40
    Wow… alll of this sounds sooo good!
    Hypnotising and realizing he doesn’t have what YOU want!!!
    Yay Siren

  65.  #65teresa on November 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm


    I so feel and understand your pain. I know it isn’t easy. I am also dealing with this also. Many huggs to you and know that we are all here for you.

  66.  #66Millie on November 17, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Femininewoman—yes! I have heard that story too, of how many marriages begin with the woman rejecting the guy. My parents marriage included! It’s kind of a catch 22 because we say we want a masculine man who shows up in all those ways but when he is standing in front of us it feels icky trying to be convinced. I wish that I could like him, that there was a hint of attraction, but there isn’t…. And no matter what he does, that attraction isn’t there. I also feel afraid, I feel like he is preying on me since what he wants is superseding what I want.

  67.  #67Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    It sounds like you have made a decision about MoM…
    Have you let him know you aren’t seeing him anymore?

    I agree with you… Before rori…
    I made bad choices with men and kept thinking THEY would change… that THEY needed to change
    It was a constant back and forth of breaking up and running after them…
    I didn’t know how to express my feelings without getting dramatic and no one likes that!!!
    I didn’t really know what I wanted… When I did express what I wanted I’d give in and beg to see him again and there went my boundaries…
    Thank God for Rori…
    I can see quite quickly now how I feel when I’m with HIM…
    and express what i want and feel (still baby stepping) and let go much sooner than I used to!!!
    It still is painful, and scary BUT I want a loving calm relationship where I am cherished!!!

  68.  #68Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Purple and Teresa…
    I too am not feeling good about leaning way back with Spirit cd..
    I was sooo hopeful in the beginning of our dating that we could have a future…
    It felt sooo good to have him in my life…
    in my living room watching a game…
    doing things together… talking,dancing and warm loving hugs
    I’m surprised how heartbroken and sad I am…

    Something I read today from Rori that really struck me…

    “And practice, moment by moment, saying the truth, DOING what feels truthful,
    and letting the outcome work out by itself.

    “I can promise you that what you choose,
    and how things unfold in the short term,
    are not important –
    what will work for you with a man
    in the LONG TERM is the VIBE you create around yourself
    when you listen to YOURSELF and speak the truth.
    When you do this, you open up a way of communication with a man that THRILLS him.
    and the longer you do it,
    the deeper the connection becomes.
    This is so incredibly powerful and CRUCIAL to your finding lasting happiness with a man –
    the RIGHT MAN”

  69.  #69Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    How calming… to have your man make plans for the holidays already…
    it is such a stressful time for us all.
    How masculine of him to book you this far in advance…
    You are THE Christmas Present!!

  70.  #70Mandy on November 17, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    If I may share, Whoa, big realization!

    So after some good relaxing time spent with friends and family, I’m doing well right now.

    After some coaching I got, and some pondering on my own personal time, I happened to I come to a big realization with J, which is probably pretty crucial.

    I have realized that although J loves me, genuinely, he also has an old habit of deliberately keeping his partner at an arm’s length, and I have a gut feeling it is because he feels if he doesn’t, he will lose his partner’s interest.. It is a big defense mechanism of his to not give too much praise or attention to his partner, I notice, because he feels weird inside, he thinks I don’t see his weirdness, and he thinks if I see it, I will up and leave for someone else; keeping a woman at an arm’s length by being somewhat aloof is his way of keeping her thinking he’s a total rock star.

    I am still able to love him and his defensiveness, however. I can also so understand feeling triggered with anger by it – it’s like, hmmm, clever, the “man” equivalent of being magnetic, but in a negative manner. I hope this doesn’t trigger my fellow Sirens too badly, but if it does, I hope that J’s humanness and ability to make mistakes is remembered; But I feel…..poor J…he doesn’t realize that I feel like that awkward teenager with glasses and zits a lot, too. I feel sad when I think of this, because I truly love J as he is, for who he truly is, not because he impresses me, and I feel sad he thinks he needs to do all that work to keep me with him, I just want to kiss him and hold him and tell him that all he needs to do is be his wonderful, sweet self…his nerdy self. Admitting your nerdiness to me is authentic as can be, and I just love it. I’m like, AWW, come here, you cute yummy nerd! 🙂

    I feel he may be making a serious effort for me to break through this defense mechanism however, because a mutual friend of ours, who we both love and respect, got fed up with asking me how J and I are doing, and hearing the same thing from me over and over again, about how he was so aloof that there was little to no intimacy between us, so she basically cornered him, and explained to him that when he is so aloof he stops giving me intimacy, it results in my emotional pain and anguish, and if he isn’t willing to meet my needs for intimacy, he basically doesn’t deserve me. Well, I know that scenario sounds scary, and abrupt and not very graceful, and probably like something that would really upset him, and it did, but I didn’t tell her to do it, it just happened, so I just owned up to it to him afterwards, admitting that yes, I had talked to her about my feelings, and I wasn’t ashamed of it.

    Well, everything she told him was apparently everything he needed to hear, everything I wasn’t telling him, because he has SERIOUSLY stepped up since then! He’s been spending all kinds of time with me, we’ve gone on a trip out of town to relax, he’s been constantly taking me out to my favorite places for drinks and dinners, even the strip club (oh my!) and there have been snuggles, bum-pinches, watching cool movies and having long talks on the porch…even very exciting sex! He has just been the best man ever…and I keep telling him this, and getting the sweetest smile from him when I do.

    So I feel pretty big about this, this is a big realization. I want to somehow let it be that J doesn’t feel the need to keep me at an arm’s distance so that he can just relax, and feel his true authentic feelings, not feel he has to do all this weird stuff. I for one know very well that old habits don’t always die hard…I revert to my old habits of jealousy and insecurity too sometimes, so I can’t blame him for sometimes feeling scared, or whatever it may be. I’m not worried about, it so much as I am feeling damn glad I figured it out – I’m actually kind of proud and gloating a bit about feeling very smart and thinking critically, lol, it’s nice. There might even be some sinister pleasure in there, lol, for feeling like I figured him out, lol. Haha, jeez. I guess I have a little bit of a mischievous side.

    Big big big realization here!

    I guess I can tell him, come up with a script for it. “I feel bad that you have to…” hm, looks like I need to work on it.

    Can I just say…UGH, scripts are so hard for me sometimes, remembering/finding my words…test anxiety then forgetting!!!!!!! I wish I had some cue cards.

    Sometimes I just write him a note!!! 😛

  71.  #71Emerson on November 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Azur Blu 63
    Thanks for your reply to me…I feel heard and it feels good to share with other sirens what I’m experiencing ….I am really going through a growth and transition right now….its not a bad thing…it’s painful at times, other times not….I am in a time of transition….

    I feel empowered by that….

    I also decided to “give up” and “let go” of my desperate hopes for the relationship I want so badly….
    It sounds weird and it’s hard to explain…
    it does not mean I REALLY truly ‘give up’….I just feel like I’ve given up the “seeking” feeling and letting go the feeling of emptiness and “if only…”
    those are what I’m giving up and letting go of….
    men can sense it, just like unzipping my heart….
    it seems to make their antennas go up for some reason…

    I’m really working hard to take my attention away from CuteCityCD though…I must admit….
    it is hard and I can feel piney if I let myself go there.

    I make an effort to get out of the house and CD even if it is just at Starbucks!!!

    I’m also expanding my knowledge with school and classes right now so it feels good to be investing in me….
    I feel confident my passion will shine through…

  72.  #72Andrea on November 17, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Azure, I just feel so warm and connected to you. I feel so so so grateful that you are a part of this board. I see how you include everyone and offer light to those you catch. Azure, for all the responses you posted specifically to me, I just feel so overwhelmingly grateful for them. I wanted to make sure you knew that so that, even when I can’t respond back, you understand that I read them and I need them and I am so thankful that you notice me and I’m so touched and moved by what you say to others. Thank you for being so present with us. !!!!!!!

  73.  #73Andrea on November 17, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    Mandy?? : ) SO!! How do you really feel?? heehehee.. oh it seems you feel joyful? you feel confident?? more than hopeful? maybe.. triumphant??

    I see such growth in you and I’m so very glad that you are staying in touch with the coaches. Do you feel closer to yourself, loving yourself even more?

    Thank you for sharing your steps and your realizations. You are truly a gem!

  74.  #74Andrea on November 17, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    And as for me: RRguy is back again, in my town. He sent me a text saying, “Guess who just pulled in to your city.”
    And because I’m on shift tonight, I’m the one who had to go and pick up his crew from the train. He saw me in the glare of the suburban’s indoor lights and I watched his whole face light up with a big grin.

    Now here is again, all night in my city.

  75.  #75lovetodance on November 17, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    andrea 71

    so beautifully put to azure blu….i too second the emotion…..
    azure’s responses to me have from my very first time on this blog made me feel included and like i have something to offer…i feel supported by her…

    yes you azure! thank you sweet siren as you would put it!

    i am reading your entries and love hearing how all is going….sending you big hugs
    andrea….wow! your narrative and story telling has me at the edge of my seat….
    i so send the best of blessings to you and this unfolding story you so generously are sharing with us!

  76.  #76Teresa on November 18, 2014 at 3:43 am

    Andrea & Lovetodance, 71-74

    I could not agree more…Azure blu responses to all sirens are inspiring. Even if she is down she always has comforting words for all of us. Azure, sending hugs to you for all your inspiration!!

  77.  #77Teresa on November 18, 2014 at 3:47 am


    Just letting you I am thinking of you…..

  78.  #78Victoria on November 18, 2014 at 4:52 am

    how are you doing?
    I am thinking of you. You are so wise, and so much remind me of my best friend.
    The way you handle your man’s silence and his absense is just amazing, she can do this too, and she is my rock star.
    Did I tell you that her husband divorced her and then asked her to remarry him a year later? She brought him back to her by just being kind and non-judgemental, and loving.
    I just hope she is happy, she would not tell me she is unhappy unless she is in agony… I worry about her a lot.

  79.  #79teresa on November 18, 2014 at 5:59 am

    Azure 67,

    I keep reading over and over your post in regards to something you read from Rori. I too have found it difficult to lean way back. This is extremely hard for me because I am the type of person who doesn’t want conflict. I was told when growing up to talk……work it out. Never, never go to bed mad, angry etc. I wonder if this is where they say “silence is golden”?

    Struggling with this day already. 🙁

  80.  #80Victoria on November 18, 2014 at 6:22 am

    The only way I can lean way back is if I am spending time with another man. This is why CDing is so perfect!
    But it IS so difficult when you are in love with someone, spending time with other CDs is like a chore, or at least so not exciting. Or may be I am CDing the wrong guys?
    Out Victoria, out, go out and meet other people.

  81.  #81Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 6:47 am

    LL #25
    I agree with lovetodance…#28
    ‘you are a nice person and i don’t feel the chemistry i need to feel to keep dating….i wish you the best’

    Glad to hear you are still cding!!!

  82.  #82Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 6:50 am

    Mistea #38
    Wow… this is big… officially kicking Music cd to the curb…
    All the practicing of YOU leaning back!! you got to see HIM clearly… and how much he can – OR Can’t do…
    and now You’re bored!!! Yay!!!!

    i’m feeling curious… what was it that the lady told you that sealed the deal?

    Ohhh… so glad to hear you have found someone to introduce you around!!

  83.  #83Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 6:53 am

    EMerson #70
    Yay for transitions AND letting go…
    You are an inspiration!

  84.  #84Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 6:54 am

    I am sending warm, soft breezes and hope D has come out of his cave… Because you deserve LOTs of LOVE and LOTs of Attention!!!

  85.  #85Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 6:58 am

    Andrea #71
    HUgggggs darling Siren…
    How beautiful to have YOUR golden words sparkle on me and lift up my day!!!
    I feel so proud and happy and joyful that MY words mean this much to you!!!

  86.  #86Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 7:01 am

    loveto… and teresa…
    Ahhhh… how lovely to read your words to ME…
    I feel sooo loved and supported by you!!!

    Your words give me courage and strength to make this a good day!!!

  87.  #87prplpsn28 on November 18, 2014 at 7:47 am

    Thank you everyone for your hugs and comments. It really helps me alot 🙂

  88.  #88Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 8:07 am

    Hi Victoria,

    Thank you for asking after me, I feel cared for and complimented.

    I don’t know if I’m really so great with handling his silence and absence, but I’m getting better, and actually come to think of it, yes, I have been doing great, especially when I compare it to how I used to be…

    This is the part that is hard to explain to other people, but I think sometimes people think I must have low self-esteem to want to be with a man who needs space like that. But the honest truth is that it suits me. I love lots of time alone too, and in a deep down part of myself I know this is what I need.

    I know I cannot be in a relationship where I feel obligated, or where I’m made to feel in any way bad or wrong for wanting alone time. I realize I need a relationship where I can just be myself, and my independence and alone time is part of that.

    I had not heard that story about your friend, but what a wonderful story! I get a clear picture of her from it, and really do relate to it. It’s how I am with D, kind, gentle – I don’t judge his faults because I really don’t feel the need. It is easy for me to let him be, because he lets me be.

  89.  #89Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 8:14 am

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you sweetest siren. All good here 🙂


  90.  #90teresa on November 18, 2014 at 8:46 am

    Indigo 87,

    I so wish at times I would learn to not say anything. I know this is my biggest obstacle. I have found myself opening mouth and inserting foot on several occassions. I have come to learn that no opinion might be the best answer. The hardest part for me is when I am asked and I take the time to respond and say maybe you need to reflect on why it’s this way. Is there something you could say or do to make a change. For me it is thinking out of the box. For others I think they feel I am on the attack.

  91.  #91Labbit on November 18, 2014 at 9:04 am

    To everyone that struggles with leaning back…this has been a real trouble spot for me too. My mind and heart race, I have difficulty thinking about anything else and sometimes my body physically shakes. Even though I ‘know’ that leaning forward and chasing don’t feel good, it’s been a challenge to get rid of this learned habit.

    I made up something that has been helpful recently. I wanted to start seeing leaning forward and chasing/initiating with my CDs as unhealthy. It’s kind of like an addiction, right? I need to quit it. So I’ve started pretending that leaning forward and chasing/initiating are cigarettes. I’ve never smoked but I know cigs are bad, a turnoff both to me and most men…and I want to feel the same negative mental association with leaning forward/initiating/chasing. I know they’re gross and it’s my choice whether I ‘smoke’ or not. A cig might feel good in the moment for a smoker but all the residual health problems and whatnot are not at all worth it.

    So if I’m feeling really anxious, shaky, whatever about leaning back, I’ll start imagining taking out a pack of cigs…opening it…taking one out…lighting it up…puffing…smelling that awful smell…tasting that nasty taste…feel people around me backing away from the nastiness…feel my man twisting his face up in disgust and backing away…and somehow, this helps me. I feel the anxiety and nervousness of giving in to the addiction. I feel my insides darken. When I imagine all this and what it feels like to give into a nasty habit that I don’t need, that driving desire to lean forward goes away.

    Then I think about all the good things that come with quitting this bad habit…improved health. Closeness. Happiness. An easy feeling. Peace. Security. I feel everyone around me wanting to draw nearer, especially my man. It feels great. Suddenly I don’t need to ‘smoke’ anymore. I feel my anxiety melting. I am taking charge of my habits and changing them through my own power. I feel confident and in control of me!

  92.  #92Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 9:11 am


    Saying less rather than more is often the wisest course, and it doesn’t come overnight. I am not there yet, although I am a lot further along than I was.

    The key I find is being able to read people’s energy. You can feel that slight pullback from them when you’ve said or done a bit too much, and that’s when it’s best to let things lie, I’ve found.

  93.  #93teresa on November 18, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Thanks Indingo…..I will keep that in mind.

  94.  #94Dominique on November 18, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Teresa – 78 – I so hear you on not wanting to go to sleep upset. And I want to reassure you that leaning back doesn’t mean sitting on feelings. If something is bothering you, and it’s not something that you can or want to work through on your own, then I would encourage speaking up.

    For example – Something has been sitting on my heart, and I don’t want it to sit inside me festering. Can you help me with this? –

    And then say what’s on your mind, making it about you and how you feel. When someone triggers you, it can feel hugely relieving giving it voice, and this doesn’t have to be a blaming or making someone wrong which I don’t suggest doing, for you’re likely to meet with resistance, deepening your feelings of trigger and upset. This is about you after all and looking to feel better.

    So you can say something like – …………… feels triggering. I don’t know why it does, but it does, and I don’t know what to do with these feelings. –

    Sometimes, often simply saying this defuses the trigger. Or you can do what I’ve came to find works well for me/us. Once put out there, it then becomes an inside joke so to speak.

    For example, K used to often say – I worked SO hard today/doing….. This for me was a big trigger, likely something from my mother. So one day I just got brave, and told him. Of course to him it’s an innocuous statement, but he understood. We all have our “things”. So now we make it bigger than big by making a point of saying it and with emphasis – I worked SOOOO hard today. – Makes me laugh every time now. A much better feeling than having the upset sit inside and eat at me.

    I hope this helps.


  95.  #95Gemini Goddess on November 18, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Labbit 91

    Wow. Thanks for the new “tool”. I feel so inspired. I (almost) feel excited for the next chance I’ll have to use it. 🙂

  96.  #96Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 10:24 am

    (((Purple ))))
    I want to have a word with your subconscious
    “purple deserves a loving, committed, passionate connection with a man” “NO more crumbs”

  97.  #97Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 10:28 am

    This is ME riffing
    i feel a bit shaky.
    How is this ever going to work itself out for me?
    I never thought I’d be this single so long…
    I read all the advice from Rori,
    and I feel hopeless…
    Like I’ll never manage, it’s all too much,
    I can’t be that person,
    too much to ask of me,
    I don’t have time,
    they’ll still withdraw no matter what,
    I’m just a F-up and it’s never going to work,
    I’ll never be able to make it work,
    I don’t want to make it work,
    it seems like a lot of work to be doing to make it work….
    Feeling sad and teary.
    I never thought I’d be this single so long…
    and I don’t even have a proper plan of action other than ‘reading’ more advice.
    I feel frustrated with my life and ALLL MY BAD choices….
    I feel confused about what I want and what I’m looking for.
    Ok, that’s me.
    Now going to sprinkle and gush love on my misery.
    Loving my sad and lonely self – :-/

  98.  #98Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Beloved #7
    Such vulnerable sharing darling siren…
    So sweet and tender…
    Thank you

  99.  #99Gemini Goddess on November 18, 2014 at 10:40 am

    ((((Azure Blu #97))))

  100.  #100Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 10:55 am

    I’LL GET BACK ON!!!!

  101.  #101Veronica on November 18, 2014 at 11:15 am

    A customer pointed a gun at my father in his store today. Luckily he didn’t shoot. I feel so angry and violated that I want to rip his face off. I am so tired of feeling afraid and threatened, of having to be ‘extra-careful’, of being worried about going out.

    I tried to tell Funny about what had happened and describing how I was feeling. Then I get the suggestion that it’s not fair, that some people have hard lives and are desperate, that I should rather be relieved that my family is alive. Yes it is rational. Yet I felt cut short.

    I feel p***ed off when people tell me to consider the broader social explanation for a gun in the face – I wonder: oh really did you think that when you had a gun in your face? did this social awareness allow peace and tranquility to overcome your fear everyday of going to work because oh this would be the third time your life was threatened at your workplace i.e. as in they know where to find you? grrr!!!

    So I gave myself the space I needed to feel what I felt – after the anger of not feeling heard subsided, I could actually cry from fear and relief and tiredness. I could actually care about my family. I don’t want fear to stop me from caring.

    And now I don’t want to be around Funny right now – something dimmed a bit, like I was hemmed in. I dislike it when that happens.

  102.  #102Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 11:36 am

    Huggs and kisses!!!
    Ohhh… I feel fear and anxiety for your dad..
    I feel GREAT relief that he is alll right…
    This has happened 3 times before?

    I think it feels smart to take YOUR time to process this event away from Funny for a little while…
    But I think it sounds good that you did share it!!

  103.  #103Andrea on November 18, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    Somebody on this thread or the last said something to the effect: When he is near me physically and we are connecting, that’s when I fall in love with him. When we are apart and he’s away from me, that’s when he is falling in love with me.
    Something like that….

    I feel the need to really get down to CD’ing and leaning way back and taking care of ME.

    RRguy has me all turned sideways, backward, and inside out. He was in my city last night. I am so aware of him, melted by his presence, taken with him, that last night it didn’t matter that I have a life here in this city, that I had homework, that I didn’t get off my shift til eleven pm, that I needed to get home and take care of my daughters, that I have boundaries and concerns about my future and etc…

    I just wanted to be with him. Before he had showed up in my city he had texted:
    “And how is your day going?”
    I texted back: “Honestly, it doesn’t matter how my day is going, as soon as I hear from you, I feel happy and like smiling.”

    So when he got to his hotel room, he texted me and said that it actually sounded like I wasn’t having such a great day before. So he asked to borrow my truck and he would go and get me something to eat. I felt odd about it, but I let him.

    When I got off my shift I saw that he had filled my tank with gas. Filled! I don’t think I’ve had a full tank of gas in months. It’s so expensive!!

    But then he wanted me to stay with him in his hotel room. I told him again how I feel awkward and unprofessional and like a “call girl” coming to his hotel room. Plus I needed to get home and make sure my daughters were in bed and taken care of.

    He said again, “I don’t care where we are. I just want to be near you, be with you.”

    So I called my daughters and asked them what the felt about him coming over. (that late?? see??) They’d met him before already, but not sure they know how I feel about him. Anyway, they both like him alot and are teenagers and were heading to bed, so they said they didn’t mind.

    He stayed the night with me. All night. And we made love all night and talked… I mean he talked me through everything he wanted to do with my physically, when ever he went to do something else he looked at my face, searched me, told me what he was going for and wanted to make sure it was okay.

    I’ve never experienced this before but it was so adult, so new. He’s a Sagittarius. I’m a Gemini. Both of us thrive on words and it was such a turn on while at the same time I kept telling him, I’ve never EVER felt so comfortable making love before. As though everything, every smell, every strangeness, every awkwardness, every second of our experience was on the table for examination and discussion. It was so connecting.

    When I woke and got my girls off to school he slept in. Then I started on my homework. He woke and began reading my papers out loud to me. Asking me about my motives in different phrases, editing typos…etc… We were a team.

    My daughter’s nurse from her school called and said she was sick. RRguy said, Let’s go get her and let me take the two of you to breakfast before I get back on my train.

    So, we did. All the drive to my daughter’s school, he was reading my papers I have due today. Reading them out loud to me. Then at breakfast, he regaled my daughter and I about how he cooks southern home style cooking for Thanksgiving dinner and kept saying to my daughter, “Oh, you would love my sweet potato pie. You would love the way I do my collard greens. Oh you would love my oven baked macaroni.”

    And then it was goodbye. And I know that I am in love with this man. I know that I am.

    And still he isn’t offering anything other than time together when he is in my city. I’m a goner and he’s fine with goodbye. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

    No promises. No asking about future contact. Darn it. And I did it to myself.

    So, I know I need to lean back. I need to make plans for my weekend. I need to work out and eat right and get good rest and take care of ME again. I need to refocus.

    I have no other cds in my cycle. I’ve pushed everyone else away. How do I unzip my heart to experiences with other men when all I want is him? That’s a question others have been posing as well.

  104.  #104Victoria on November 18, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    You write so well… I lived through every bit of your story. I think you did the best for you at the time. If he is the right man for you (thruth be told you can not know so soon) it does not matter whether you slept with him now or later. So, if he is a good guy, and the right man, he will be coming back for more. If he is not one or both, there is nothing you could do either way. Live in the pleasure that you shared and have no worries. You are a true siren

  105.  #105Femininewoman on November 18, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    Oh Veronica. That is a tough one. Yet I understand that men are logical with just about everything.

    I feel for you yet I know where he is coming from. Rest assured though that when the anger subsides the loving feelings will come back.

  106.  #106Mistea1 on November 18, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    Beloved 38, I saw Duty Dating on You Tube. It was cute and very instructive and funny. I liked it’s twists and turns.

    Azure Blu 81 Thanks for asking. Well after that big decision I am a bit (but only a little bit) tempted to go back. But like Rori has said, we don’t have to make any really final decision. I saw him in the office a couple of hours ago Tuesday, and he was acting all cute, funny and flirty. He has the kind of charisma that when he walks into a room the walls start to sweat. And me too. I don’t think I used any feeling messages or even flirted. I went into my shy and flustered being I guess. But I was more settled that usual though. I didn’t particularly join in or encourage.
    This, after being at the recital and reception on
    Sunday and him acting all dour and off putting, except for the hug he initiated after the recital. Course, he looked exhausted at the end of the reception as the day was at least a 14 hour one. I did not approach him at all during the reception.
    I’m open for comments on this as I haven’t been in this situation for years, if ever. I asked the friend with me if she knew anything about him. Turns out she knows him and his family for the last 20 years or so. I found out how he and his wfe met and that she dumped him about 12-14 years ago. Mostly I think because she wanted a more well rounded life. He was only about the music. She won’t even look at him if they have to do something together. He didn’t remove his wedding ring for 2 years after the divorce. Now he has a girlfriend from the choir but I never see them together, she probably gives him plenty of space. That relationship didn’t concern him when he became interested in me.
    She did mention he seemed to have a memory problem about details of events. But I found he easily brought up some obscure detail to flirt with.
    I was intuitively right about a number of things she said so I feel secure in my intuition. She also said he said he felt his mother rejected him. She even wrote him a note about it one time. This is a biggy. Even in family pictures on his website there is a separation between him and the rest. This stuff affects brain functioning.
    Then he was so cavalier about the forum project that was important to me which he didn’t follow up on. I apologized for not being available to give it to him and he said he talked to someone on the board and they will contact me. I don’t know if that’s true. (he broke our appointment without respect for my time.)
    She did say he is extremely kindhearted and thoughtful. Just not to me. If we have any snippet of meaningful conversation he is likely to reach out to the nearest available young woman and say, “call me we’ll go out for coffee.” I don’t know what these girls think, he is old enough to be their grandfather!
    He has a habit of interupting me when I am speaking which I find intolerable and massively disrespectful. Mind you I don’t speak long sentences due to this website.
    The music is gold for me. I’ve had miracles, full fledged poems, stories, and reblossoming of all my deeply hidden emotional range. Last summer when he knew I was listening he would play the most exquisite pieces for me. He knows intuitively when I am in the building and intuits my favorite pieces of music to play at certain times. This of course is enormously attractive to me. I wish the person who plays music like a god and the actual person matched up better! Maybe I should just treat him as my muse.

    I am extremely empathic and I mostly know how to guard myself, My sense of hearing, touch, and taste are extremely acute. Last week I tasted a cheese dip at a restaurant I hadn’t visited in 20 years, found it as good as I remembered then I found myself wondering what Music Td would taste like! Yikes.
    So, Azure Blu, in answer to your question as I read back over this post is two things. One is the lack of the stepping up to the plate. I’m enough of a realist to know this is vital to relationships. This other is the psychic push, pull attempts to keep me off balance. It smacks of aggression, control, and disrespect. And maybe it’s an attempt to punish the withholding mother. He thinks though that I am much younger than he is. No blame there. I am working out similar issues with being abandoned by my father and that a love interest of mine may abandon me like my father did. We are mirrors for each other. I discovered this early on. At a deep level I am grateful for being able to learn from this but at a human level, IT’S NOT FAIR! I want a loving teddy bear who plays like a god. Thanks for getting me to review this. It’s helpful to me and I hope to whomever, needs to read this.

  107.  #107Kim on November 18, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    96 awww Azure Blu!
    It will all be fine. You are an amazing women and the reason that you are single is that you are not settling!
    Not settling for something that will make you feel more lonely and sad than being alone.
    You know that 🙂
    Much love to you

  108.  #108Kim on November 18, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Andrea, such a great story….and I am a worried too and I understand where you are coming from. What would I do in your situation….I would try to enjoy the moment with this new man…and have fun.
    I would tell myself that this is not love but flirty, playful, infatuation – because let’s face it, when we know someone for a few days/weeks it’s more that kind of chemical infatuation rather than love, and sometimes yes it can lead us down the wrong path…but I would really just enjoy it. The fact that he doesn’t live near me would make me a little a
    wary as to the future and whether he is seeing someone else or whatevet, but I’d stick with it for now, and CD.
    Nothing to lose, let’s face it, a couple of months ago you didn’t knkw this guy anyway, so if he isn’t a permanent fixture, then you will be ok.
    Enjoy it 🙂

  109.  #109Kim on November 18, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    As for me, I am feeling very philosophical and at peace.
    I decided to go back to europe in the New Year, and although I am sure I will be feeling sad when the time comes, I am ok with it right now.
    My constant struggle has worn me thin and I can’t wait to get a proper job again.
    MoM has been sweet, he did write me a nice email saying that he has heard me, and he had already stepped down contact with the ex (unbeknown to me), and told her he would no longer be petsitting for her, but he could and would not stop her calling him if she needed advice or whatever.
    He said he is to bla e for never telling me how he felt about me and for not moving the relationship forward.
    He wants to meet.
    IDK. I don’t want to. Not now.
    I did thank him and said that I felt heard but that it does not change anything really.
    I don’t feel angry or sad, maybe a little but mostly I feel proud of myself for stepping out of the pattern of dating a man who does not seemingly want the same things as me.
    All good.

  110.  #110Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Gemini Goddess and Kim…
    Huggs… thank you!!!

  111.  #111Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    I feel VERY sad hearing you are leaving the States!!!
    You sound at peace with the decision….

    Interesting about MoM…
    I think he really does love you…
    and he has made changes you asked for…

  112.  #112Femininewoman on November 18, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Kim regarding MoM he will value what he had with you more if you hold off a bit even if you decide to reconnect later. I would not jump back in right away if I were you.

  113.  #113April Rose on November 18, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    For anyone working on an online dating profile, I totally recommend Adam Gilad’s ‘The Right Man Online’ program.
    It’s so detailed and heartful. And really gets you lasering in on, and inviting, the attention of exactly the kind of man you want, who wants the same kind of relationship you want.

  114.  #114Mistea1 on November 18, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    Darn: I lost the whole post. Will try again.
    Beloved: I watched Duty Dating I liked it.

    Azure blu, 81, Well, maybe I’m thinking to just keep it not a final decision. I saw him a few hours ago Tuesday in the office and he was cute, charming and flirty. I was still under the dour spell of Sunday and maybe in my shy flustered being so didn’t use feeling messages and didn’t flirt back. When he’s charming like that he has enough charisma to make the walls sweat, me too.
    Sunday. he was dour and even though he initiated a hug after the recital he didn’t approach me at the reception nor I him. That’s when I decided enough.
    The friend I went to the reception with has known him and his family for 20 years or so. His wife dumped him 12-14 years ago. She wanted a more balanced life and he spent hours practicing and that’s how you get good enough to play like a god.
    He has ‘moods’ that get quite difficult and with me he interrupts when I am speaking which is massively intolerable and disrespectful. He did not however, take off his wedding ring for two years after the divorce. Apparently they have to collaborate on some music thing but she doesn’t acknowledge his presence there and he has to leave before she starts. So that is not acceptable.

    He did not step up to the plate for me on the forum project and when I apologized for not getting him the paper he said that he talked to someone on the board and they would contact me. He then said that I should write up something for them. THAT”S the paper I had ready for our appointment. That alone is a no go right?

    Then there is a lot of psychic push and pull going on. First the smile, then the dour look, then the attention and then the imperiousness. It makes me feel really off balance and uncomfortable. Then my friend said she thought he has memory of events problems. Well, he easily pulled up an obscure detail to try and continue our flirting.

    Then she told about him telling about mother rejection problems. This is a big one. A person can have brain dysfunction issues with this. I could tell that from looking at family pictures on his website earlier. So all this push pull could mean mother withholding issues that he may see represented by me. So this talk proved several of my intuitions were correct.
    We are mirrors for each other. I found this out early on. I am working on father abandonment issues and if I have a love interest he might abandon me too.
    yikes, I’m likely to be imperious too! It is good to be aware.
    I did find out he dates a choir member but I’ve never seen them talk. Apparently they or at least he is not taking that relationship seriously. She must know to give him plenty of space.
    So Azure Blu there seem to be two main issues here. One the not stepping up. That’s a given. the second is the psychic push pull. I’m feeling off balance, it’s disrespectful and demeaning and very uncomfortable.
    So I was correctly subdued with him today. I must say though that the leaning back works very well. He was a lot more responsive today. It’s been about 4 weeks. So the men should know that if their woman is leaning back they better act fast or she may be gone for good.
    My friend also said that he is noted for his kindness and I’ve seen evidence. Just not with me.

    The other thing is with the music. I have received miracles, poems full blown to my mind, stories, and uncovering my full range of emotions that have been deeply buried since childhood. His intuition is very good as far as I’m concerned. If he knows I am listening sometimes he will play just for me the most exquisite pieces. When he constructs a music program he will put in my favorite pieces and I have never told him what I like. Too bad the god playing the music and the human person aren’t a little closer together!
    I suppose I could try starbucks for some CDing. I desperately need to do this. I used to do this years ago and it worked well. Now a days the men in my age group are not in very good shape. Even the ones younger than me are not in good shape as well.

    Azure, thanks for getting me to write this. It was helpful to organize my thoughts. As far as 96 comment goes. I think you gave a feeling expression for what I am trying to say with all my rational explanation. Thank you.

    Veronica 100 That’s awful. It does hurt on a deep level and rational doesn’t reach there. Glad you gave yourself the space to feel and cry.

  115.  #115Azure Blu on November 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    Andrea RRguy sounds adorable and HE adores YOU!!!
    Wow… you are being such a Siren… inspiring him to be very masculine…

    I think you are being VERY smart and making sure you are cding…
    Maintain your degree of Difficulty…
    maybe have plans the next time he drops in from out of town??

    It is still early in your dating… Stay curious about who HE is…

  116.  #116IamHis on November 18, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    ((((Azure Blu)))) – sounds like some NV’s are getting to you! You are so positive, self-aware, & nuturing & I feel so thankful for your presence on the blog!

  117.  #117IamHis on November 18, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    I feel so cozy and pleasantly surprised about how things are unfolding.

    Young Foreign Guy (YFG) works for my Dad. I went with my Dad to help him with some of his work, and it was the three of us all day.

    I felt so surprised! I didn’t open a single door all day, he absolutely did not let me. It felt so strangely good!

    I would catch him staring at me, and every time I practiced speaking his language, he would crack up!

    He offered to buy my dinner, but since I wasn’t hungry, got me coffee and a treat instead. I never knew I could feel so good with someone with whom vreal communication is difficult!

  118.  #118kate on November 18, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    Has anyone seen this article?

    It is a short, very interesting read. The most fascinating (to me) line is where the husband tells the wife: “Well, it’s not working and you need to stop. I’m not turned on. You’ve absolutely killed my sex drive.”

    I’d love to hear others thoughts on this.

  119.  #119lovetodance on November 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    i feel you write so clearly and cleanly

    even tho you may not feel clear right now…..except for the certainty of getting back to cding and taking care of yourself…..such a clear statement i feel….

    oh when all those endorphins are released….when our love and needs and yearnings are sprung open….
    oh oh oh….

    so glad you had a loving positive experience with this man…..
    i can only imagine the work one needs to do now….

    to stay in the moment and with oneself….

    good luck beautiful siren….so glad you took care of yourself….

  120.  #120lovetodance on November 18, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    a tail for azure

    i see a beautifull white stallion with flaring nostrils pulled up to you….nudging you firmly and gently all at the same time…

    its so strong and lovely and muscular….shaking its beautiful mane and whineying all at the same time…

    looking at you with big eyes and wonderment a certain spice and sizzle in expression as she waits for you to hop on….she paws the ground in excitement and anticipation for the moment you will settle onto her back is approaching….

    this is a magical white stallion that when you do get on her…she can also fly….and as she flies you see the roof of your home and all the roofs of the homes on all the streets, and all the downtown
    and the large swaths of green and commercial

    you see the lights from homes, businesses, schools, the little figures of people and cars moving along…knowing you are of that… and apart from that..

    and as you ride higher and higher you keep getting this peaceful feeling of rightness…

    of beeing exactly where you are suppose to be in these moments
    that your being knows where she is going

    all your love, radiant energy and healing tears are fuel for you and your beautiful horse….

    taking you always
    to where you are going….

  121.  #121Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    (((Veronica))) I feel so sad that your dad has been subjected to that experience and sad for the painful feelings that it causes you.

    It brought to mind experiences, I have had with boyfriends in the past and I don’t know if it may help – I used to have a job that was a little bit dangerous – nothing like your story – but still, and sometimes I wanted these boyfriends to just be with me in my feelings (or hear my fear) but they never could be, they would always deflect somehow from the reality of my words – I started to wonder after it happened often and with different men whether it was that they just COULDN’T hear it, as it made them feel powerless and helpless – unable to ‘fix’ anything…I just feel curious about this. How do men step up when they can’t ‘fix’?

    I know you are so good at being in your feelings and honouring them. I feel pleased that you are so in-tune and caring for yourself. (((hugs to you and your family)))

    ((((Azure Blu)))) I want to share and I don’t know what I want to say. I often feel like this. Because I suppose I’m a fixer. I want to give you a big hug. I agree with the others about what a loving, nurturing presence you are here. You have really helped me get into the loving myself and all my feelings. You really have! It comes much more naturally to me since I felt inspired by how you use it. I see myself as preparing fertile soil – that’s what I’m ‘doing’ with myself, preparing the best earth to create the most wonderful things and relationships.

    The weeds still grow though and I still watch them hoping they will turn into flowers but baby steps 🙂

  122.  #122Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    117 Lovetodance I love this! What a beautiful, soothing, uplifting and supportive visualisation!

  123.  #123Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    I now I feel unsure – if my words above all come from my head – probably, because when I hear stories it triggers thought. The feelings are mostly compassion. I was going to write a list then but no, actually the feelings are mostly compassion.

    I am hugely feeling. When I have a lot of space I can move through so many different feelings in a day – riding them like waves. I am in them. I identify them. I don’t go into my head. When it comes to in the moment, and intimacy, it feels more difficult to express my feelings. Sometimes I don’t know them, I grapple for them, I feel a bit panicky that I don’t know them and I censor a lot so as not to overwhelm, especially men, with my feelings. It feels difficult the dance between sharing feelings and being open-hearted and leaning back and not being able to share feelings or having to be selective, or cautious, about which feelings to share.

  124.  #124lovetodance on November 18, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    sophie i sooooo hear you….

    it sounds so simple to stay open hearted….and to learn back ….and to be in the moment….and to not have an agenda so to speak and and and

    when to ask questions and how….
    and yet i know that this is an art
    an artform really
    and a way of being

    and maybe like any beautiful art form…it takes practice such alot of practice and then one day or moment something [somethings] start to feel natural
    like aha
    like of course
    like ohhh wow this feels good

    this feels like me ….the best of me

    that is what i hope for…

    i hope your traveling is going well sophie lovely siren…!

  125.  #125Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    Thank you lovetodance – I was getting all in my head so I just went to the beach and soaked up some of the calming energy – It quiet where I am, very beautiful.Now, the rains are coming in, so I’ll cosy down for the afternoon. Stay away from the computer a bit.

    Yes, I hope for that too lovetodance. I do feel that, sometimes, maybe even often, but also the reigning it in with men feels difficult as I feel sooooo openhearted (and that feels like me) and I have to hold back…(which sometimes doesn’t). I guess it’s like Victoria said about wanting someone to share affection with. I love that about romantic connection when it works.

  126.  #126Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm


    I am so sorry your dad went through this experience.

    It can shake you to your core when this happens to someone you love.

    My family went through this experience three years ago, armed men broke into their house and tied up my mom, my stepdad and my brother and had guns pointed in their faces telling them they were going to kill them. They were unharmed but it was a deeply shocking, shaking experience for all of us. I remember D was wonderful at the time – he was with me when I got the call late at night, and after comforting me he immediately went into “solving” mode.

    I know sometimes it’s the last thing you want when you just want to feel those overwhelming feelings of fear and concern, but try and give Funny something to DO. Try to let him feel useful to you. This will be the way he will feel best at helping.

    Love to you

  127.  #127Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    ((((Azure Blu))))

    You have not messed anything up! The right man will feel lucky to have you!

  128.  #128Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Veronica and Indigo – I can’t imagine what it must feel like living with experiences like that. I feel, as mentioned above, deeply compassionate.

    Indigo – “I know sometimes it’s the last thing you want when you just want to feel those overwhelming feelings of fear and concern, but try and give Funny something to DO. Try to let him feel useful to you. This will be the way he will feel best at helping.”Yes, this was what I was clumsily getting at, it answers my question, thank you.

  129.  #129Indigo on November 18, 2014 at 9:18 pm


    I also love your visualisation!

    Visualisations are so great when we feel stuck in the moment – they can just shift our feelings and perspective. I am a very visual person and I love to visualize the things I want, or the way I want to feel – my mind responds really well to it and it’s a great tool. I have a whole storehouse of visualisations for daydreaming with!

  130.  #130Sophie on November 18, 2014 at 9:21 pm

    I am sat under a little wooden shelter with the rain rattling against the roof and I can see bamboo trees and hear a bird that I call the ‘uh oh’ bird cos it goes ‘uh oh uh oh”. I can also hear the singing calling out from a nearby mosque. I feel soulful. But also oddly flat, mmmm sad, mmm tearful today. There is no reason I can identify. I don’t quite know what would help to comfort me…a good cry perhaps but it’s not forthcoming.

  131.  #131Lovetodance on November 18, 2014 at 9:55 pm

    I am so sorry this happened to your father, to you , to your family.
    I am so thankful that your father was protected from further harm . I can only imagine the ripple effects. I send so much healing love and energy to you and the whole of the situation. Big warm protective hugs to you darling siren

  132.  #132Victoria on November 19, 2014 at 12:14 am

    @ Kim 107
    I feel triggered by MoM even though I never met him.
    I so hate it when a man says, yes, I am to blame.
    Yes, I failed this.
    This really kills me. Because the only way I read it is, I do not like you enough.
    I do not want to give you what you want.
    Open your eyes, you are not getting this from me, not now, not ever.
    This triggers me so bad. This is what actually makes me afraid to ask for what I want, because I am not sure I can handle the truth.
    I spoke with a friend last night, she dated a man from South Africa for while, he is older with grown up sons. Eventually, he told her he loves her, but does not want to have any more children. She was heart broken and left him, this was months ago. He still writes to her almost daily saying how much he loves her and misses her, and says, yes, I am to blame that I can not give you the true family that you want and deserve. I am so so so triggered.

  133.  #133Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 1:58 am

    Azure Blu – 101 – hi! Hugs and kisses to you! I feel so welcome when I hear from you. I enjoy so much your presence here on the blog. I know you were just riffing earlier – my experience of your presence here has been inspiring.

    This has happened before with my dad – and my mom and brother work with him so there is a fear when this happens that they’ll be hurt or I won’t see them again. They are careful but sometimes these things happen despite being careful. Thank you so much for your concern.

    I feel supported by your words – I had to take time for myself – emotions were rushing into each other and I wanted to feel them through.

  134.  #134Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 1:59 am

    FW – 104 – I agree wholeheartedly with what you said and appreciate that you understand this situation so well. I really needed to hear those words, it gave me peace to feel my stuff yet understand how loving Funny is about this – thank you so much xxx

  135.  #135Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 2:00 am

    Sophie – 118 – Thank you for your kind and caring words, I feel soothed by them. They mean a lot to me xx

    I do think that feeling powerless has something to do with it. I do know that my father, brother and Funny have this protective way about them. And that they also feel afraid of those situations. I decided to share my angry feelings here instead of shouting them at Funny (I didn’t want to do that, I don’t want to shout or point my anger or rage at a person – I feel really bad about myself if that happens). I was able to talk to Funny this morning and he wrote me an e-mail during the night – I am somewhat gobsmacked by his love and his maturity.

    Sophie – 122 – wow that sounds exquisite

  136.  #136Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 2:01 am

    Indigo – 123 – ((((Thank you))))

    Terror can take such a grip, sometimes it feels paralyzing. I want to keep my family closer after this. I feel so comforted by your words.

    I feel so relieved that your family wasn’t harmed. Being robbed like that in your own home where one is supposed to feel most safe, how does one sleep soundly… do they feel safer now? I feel good knowing that you weren’t alone when you got the news and had such loving presence with you.

    Your suggestion is so helpful, I appreciate it. And I now know what I would ask him to do for me. Again thank you so much is all I can say – the words seem to be sitting in my throat.

  137.  #137Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 2:01 am

    Sophie – 125 – I just want curl up into your kind compassion – thank you.

  138.  #138Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 2:02 am

    Lovetodance – 128 – Oh healing love and energy and protective hugs is what I need – to turn this situation around into beautiful, connecting love – wow yes to turn this around. Thank you for this beautiful message and intention, I feel inspired to explore this, how it would turn around. To let healing love and energy into this situation – gosh that’s powerful!

  139.  #139Veronica on November 19, 2014 at 2:07 am

    I’ve been away for too long it seems, even though I’ve read all the posts. It feels really good to be back here.

    I wanted to be a bit more different here, wasn’t sure how, but wanted more warmth of myself, somehow I’m afraid of being warm, open, kind, inviting. Like someone would take it away or it would invite ridicule. I become so sensitive when I try new things, or try sharing a part of me that feels new or has been hidden.

    I’m really glad that this blog exists : )

  140.  #140Indigo on November 19, 2014 at 4:24 am

    Sophie 125,

    Veronica and I live in the same country. Sadly many here have had similar experiences.

    Your holiday sounds just lovely… I hope you are having a blissful time!

  141.  #141Sophie on November 19, 2014 at 4:56 am

    Thank you Indigo – it’s not really a holiday, holiday cos I’m here ’til March or April so it doesn’t have the same blissed out feel but it’s a big adventure and feels exciting to have opened up a whole new external and internal world of experience for myself

    I know Indigo 🙁 I have had friends with relatives who have lived there and shared similar experiences…I can’t imagine how it all feels – I just send you lots of love xx

  142.  #142Mistea1 on November 19, 2014 at 7:30 am

    I sent out two comments last night to answer Azure blu but neither were picked up. Essentiallly it was the not stepping up to the plate and the push pull led by some of the emotional issues she told me about. Too bad, now he’s acting as charming as possible. Oh well..

  143.  #143Kim on November 19, 2014 at 7:36 am

    129 Veronica, oh yes. You have no idea how triggered I got by all this already…but worse that the ‘i am to blame’ was the ‘I feel sad’ and not doing anything about it.
    Hence, I appreciate that he opened up and actually told me that he heard me…and FW, no, I am not jumping into anything. I have no desire to, not now.

  144.  #144Victoria on November 19, 2014 at 7:45 am

    Yes, “I feel sad” is so mean. So non-masculine. And also accusatory: you make me sad.
    My man does this to me too occasionally. I am trying to help him unlearn it.
    He has tried to tell me a few times that “he is just an ordinary guy”.
    I told him that he is wrong, He is my super hero, and I would not let anyone speak the opposite.
    Its difficult to argue with this one, isn’t it?
    I must confess, I am quite happy with where we are right now, but I have 11 more days to go on my no-lean forward diet to be able to draw conclusions… But so far, the less effort I make, the better I feel.
    Love you Rori, and this place!

  145.  #145Lotus on November 19, 2014 at 7:59 am

    Great to see exchanges on CDing. I’ve been going thru the motions of coming to terms with and feeling more peace with my decision to keep separated (and eventual divorce) from my husband after his affair and incapacity to sort his issues out. Massive lightbulb moment from counselling that we had a co-dependant relationship. It has been a relief since I let go in Spring. It’s been amazing to really get into my feelings around him, that I don’t feel good around him, I want to close my heart from him, I feel drained more than filled up – the classic waterwheel thing. Rori – you are so right! I am learning to trust my feelings and step into the unknown.

    I’ve been really enjoying CDing as well as seeing a guy for 3 months. I find I have the opposite problem to finding love and Mr. Right, but I know I will at some point next year want the dream again. I really like this guy, how we feel with each other, butterflies, he’s a good guy, HOT too (no issues which is just refreshing!). I;ve never experienced something like this, I just want to keep drinking from the cup of him and our dates. He even rowed me in a boat, and knelt down to kiss me. It was utter romantic bliss! He has hinted at a future, but I’m not ready.. I don’t want to be exclusive to anyone. Yet he keeps me on my toes, as he kinda plays it cool and puts no pressure on me. We have also had sex several times but are abstaining a bit.. but it’s so hard! I think he’s been falling for me, but perhaps me too, but I feel selfish if I don’t want the same thing as him yet.

    however I don’t want to be a girlfriend or wife right now. I just want to be a free spirit. I want to dance with other guys, and just enjoy being single and the different experiences it brings. Yet I feel somewhat guilty, like I should start the divorce process so I can date officially, yet I don’t feel ready for that yet either.

    I feel stuck, then I dance, and whirl, and i feel scared to speak the truth with the guy. I feel scared I’ll spin out of control so I dance and take breaks, catch my breath. More intriguing guys are surfacing and asking me out since I spoke my truth to previous ones (great practice saying no and following my eyes, heart and gut!)
    I want to enjoy this moment in my life having been in a long-term relationship of 15 years!! I want to look back and think yeah I enjoyed being single (although I’m technically still married, so feel conflicted)
    My friends smile at me that I’m playing the field, I’m a character from Sex and the City..
    Ladies i’d love to hear if anyone has had a similar situation. My fear is that I will lose this guy, should I just see where things go with him. He never really asks me questions either so I’ve never had to say that I’m still dating as I met him offline. xxx

  146.  #146Lotus on November 19, 2014 at 8:50 am

    Here goes to practising my truth with the guy..
    I feel excited and scared at the same time about us. I love feeling the chemistry and connection with you. It feels really good spending time with you on different levels. I want to keep enjoying this with you but I feel scared I will lose you and the feelings that come with it. I feel sad when there’s a disconnect in between our dates. i don’t feel desired or thought of enough. I find myself wanting more, more affectionate texts, phonecalls, i think of you a lot, I want to see you, I want you to jump on a train to see me, but then I stop myself in these thoughts. I feel scared of where they will take me if I act on them and tell you how I feel. I don’t feel ready for the unknown. It makes me feel selfish, this longing for you, and I feel guilty for enjoying us.
    I like you a lot more than I expected and sometimes I feel confused by what you want with me and even with what I want. I’ve heard romantic utterings from your lips and I feel curious to know more, to open my heart to yours, but I daren’t yet..
    It feels really good to hear that i’m trusted in what I’m doing. Trusting myself is something I’m working on.

    The truth is I want to be a free spirit right now, I don’t want to be a girlfriend or exclusive with anyone. I want to explore this new life of mine. Someday soon I will want my dream of finding the one to walk into the sunset with, a man who will truly love me and understand me, and wants to make me happy because he wants to. Right now, i just want to keep dancing and I love dancing with you.

  147.  #147Kim on November 19, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Wow Lotus, you sound amazing, empowered, sireny!
    I love this.
    Though, as thoughts/feelings for yourself this sounds really great, not sure a guy would get it…I think your last sentence sums it all up. 🙂
    Love it.
    *I just want to keep dancing and love dancing with you*

  148.  #148Indigo on November 19, 2014 at 10:40 am


    I agree with Kim. You sound amazing and your script is beautiful. These are wonderful feelings to share with us, but it might be too much for a guy. If you are actually going to share it with him you may want to think about trimming it to 3 or 4 sentences at the most 🙂

    Agree, I love the last line.

  149.  #149Alice on November 19, 2014 at 10:54 am

    Hi All,
    I just wanted to take the opportunity to riff here for a bit. I feel extremely lonely. My friendships are fading… those are the relationships that have carried me through the last8 years of a very difficult phd program. Some of my friends moved away… And I find myself more hung up than ever over someone I was in love with. Constantly fantasizing about his return…
    Feeling further and further away from reality…
    Alice tumbling down the hole of self-abandonment…
    Not doing any work, anything for my career. My room , my supposed sanctuary, is a disaster. I am a mess.
    I feel… numb. Empty. Terrified. Absolutely terrified that it’s too late for me to have a career. I’ve fucked up too much. There’s no going back so I’m desperately pining for a man to come and rescue me from the mess that is my life.
    Self hate and judgement buried right beneath the surface. I want to run away from myself, a woman I find difficult to look in the eye. I woman who I don’t like or respect. She doesn’t even bother to wash her hair. She makes me feel so much rage. She’s holding me back from everything I could be, from all my potential. She’s a fucking bitch who will do everything she can to punish me and sabotage me. She loves doing that. Loves watching me humiliate myself. Maybe if I humiliate myself enough someone will look at me. I have no one, no family, no lover, no friends…
    I could try to be there for myself. But then I would have to sit with my loneliness for a second. Sit with the consequences of months of self-abandonment. Acknowledge my decisions which make me feel disgusting.
    I want to have compassion for myself. I’ve been through a lot. I’ve had a lot of strength through it all… I’m most productve when I’m kindest to myself. I’m happiest when I’m the kindest to myself and when I appreciate the efforts (small, incremental steps) that I can take towards having the life that I want, being the me that I once was and know I can be again – passionate about my work, my life. Living with my head held high and with a lot of love for myself, no matter what came my way. Where did she go?
    I want her back. Maybe that’s the loss that’s haunting me that I project onto The Guy. He’s just a guy… at the endof the day. I miss me more than I misshim. I don’t know who I am anymore… I want me back. I want to cradle my inner child and nurture my inner sensual goddess.
    I deserve love. I am love. I am strength. I am passion. I am life. I want to make a prayer for me.
    Alice, may you/we find yourself/ourselves again. What a wonderful reunion it will be.

  150.  #150Andrea on November 19, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    Oh Alice…. yes! Yes! YES! May we find ourselves once again.

  151.  #151Teresa on November 19, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    I feel sooooo sad. Will things ever get better? How can I say I miss lookingwisely4u with all that has happened. Why can I not let it go?

  152.  #152Emerson on November 19, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    147 (((Alice)))
    It’s never too late…
    It sounds to me like you’re very insightful and already on a journey in the right direction for yourself…
    Very impressive a phD!!
    Don’t give up siren xoxo

  153.  #153Emerson on November 19, 2014 at 9:55 pm

    Sirens, aww violation of siren Rori rules….it has been driving me nuts and I reached out to CuteCityCD….he replied very very briefly, semi flirty…
    then silence.
    I feel furious like stomping my feet and fuming!!! Like a 5 year old!!!!
    just fuming mad!!! At myself and at him for not being attracted to me the same way anymore!!!
    mad at me for leaning FORWARD!! For goodness sake Emerson!!!!
    I feel so needy for that relationship where there is a mutual love and attraction. That magic feels so good!!! I just love it!!
    There is a much older man who is very very interested in me and I am not interested in him at all. I know I do not want to be with someone more than 5 or 10 years older than me, and he is about 18 years older. I don’t want that. I feel it’s too difficult for me. And I”m not attracted to him. He is nice looking for his age, dresses very well and is very wealthy. But there’s no spark. He keeps texting me and I ignore him.
    I wish I knew how CuteCityCD feels about me, he’s so mysterious. I feel furious that I even care. I don’t belong in his head anyways.

  154.  #154Indigo on November 20, 2014 at 12:12 am


    I just want to reassure you that it will get better. You WILL find yourself again.

    Just keep pointing yourself in the direction you want to go, and towards the woman you want to be. And it may take time, and a lot of little steps. And even if you feel that you mess up or make a mistake, or go backwards, forgive yourself, be gentle and merciful with yourself and move forward.

  155.  #155Victoria on November 20, 2014 at 12:24 am

    I think it is just wonderful you got a lukewarm response when you leaned forward.
    If it was not so, for all of us, none of us would ever learn to lean back!
    This is just one small (and painful) step in the learning process, and trust me, no one learns until we feel that!

  156.  #156Victoria on November 20, 2014 at 12:30 am

    Congratulations for the PhD program, this is really a bit thing, and you are probably very tired of all the effort, and I know it is a MAJOR effort.
    Afrer such great efforts, it is good to plan a celebration or a reward for yourself!
    Your YOU will love you for it 🙂

  157.  #157Lotus on November 20, 2014 at 2:04 am

    Indigo and Kim
    Thank you for your feedback kind sirens! Yes that would totally overwhelm the guy for sure! I’m glad I got it out somewhere though!
    Alice – I totally hear you and this is where I am too, i too was building my creative business 2 years ago, but since devastated by my husbands betrayal, I haven’t made any new work or been able to find a job. I have been too obsessive about guys and realised I want the fun from dating but not the relationship part. This morning I got myself up as I normally sleep in feeling like an underachiever, and a lightbulb went off in my head with bad ass message: ‘I need to make myself happy!!!’ And I just got up. I love the morning and having the house to myself. I moved back to my dads the small family home on NYE and amongst dragging my feet with DIY, I too have felt trapped in my big bedroom, too many things around me. I go out dancing and dating and jogging and laugh with my friends, but I come back and feel ashamed of not achieving what everyone has – a sorted home, regular money. I have affirmations pasted above my sink which remind me: ‘I don’t need anyone’s approval but mine’. ‘As imperfectly as life is, everything is happening perfectly’. We need to have faith in ourselves. It’s never too late, day by day, minute by minute, even if we fall, we just need to be able to take a step, and another one. Be gentle to yourself.
    I want to be a true siren and grow proper wings so I can fly out of my cage! I need to be self sufficient so I don’t depend on a man again. Then I can be true feminine to his masculine!

  158.  #158Mistea1 on November 20, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Lotus, yea for you. Keep on keeping on. It will become more real every day!

  159.  #159Femininewoman on November 20, 2014 at 6:42 am

    “but since devastated by my husbands betrayal”

    Hi Lotus. Reading your comment this is one of the things that jumped out at me so I feel compelled to write something to hopefully inspire you to start on a path to changing your words and change your perspective. I believe the energy behind words are important and to me the energy behind devastating is huge. If that is the frame you put the betrayal in, for me, it is no wonder you can’t find the motivation or creative juices to move yourself forward. I encourage you to change the story. He made his choice and decided to live the life he wanted. Maybe if you change the devastation story who knows what might happen.

    I also noticed that I get the impression of quite a few need and want mentioned in your comment and would like to encourage you to start looking in the inside and saying to yourself something like “I wonder how I could create…………..” and describe to yourself the situation you want to create. I learned from Katie Hendricks, another relationship coach, that wondering energy can get the creative juices flowing and help me to come up with ideas to make changes, choices, and differences in my life.

    As Rori would say “You can do this”. I believe in you.

  160.  #160Mistea1 on November 20, 2014 at 8:15 am

    Feminine Woman, Yes, I like that, “I wonder how I could create…” Now that Music Td is off my screen mentally, I get to choose again.

    Amusingly I’ve been watching “Taming of the Shrew” while keeping up with the blog here. It comes at it from a different view but in the end Kate is into her feminine energy and very happy about it.

  161.  #161sequoia on November 20, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Beloved 2 – thank you for the Duty dating movie tip, its so funny, good to have a few laughs about the whole things. I need that right now, have been feeling bugged down by the whole thing.

  162.  #162sequoia on November 20, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    wow, I feeling inspired watching….a great place for CDing instead of Starbucks, which has just decided to team up with Monsanto and thus became no no place for me now!….practicing the 5 second smile and feeling messages…at THE AirPort 🙂

  163.  #163Mistea1 on November 20, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Oh Sequoia, thanks for tip. What a great idea. I’m going to try it. I need the practice for sure. The air port!

  164.  #164Andrea on November 20, 2014 at 5:33 pm

    So, my wonderful Helena Hart sent around her usual email. This time it was an article written by CC. CC was talking about staying in the moment with a new man that you’re dating. He said that men are intuitive enough to know when a woman has an agenda lined up versus when she is really just trying to get to know a man. In other words, being inquisitive about his future plans, his money, his desire for marriage.. etc… is a good way to put a new man off.

    All that is well and good. But I felt an AhA moment go off in me like the bells of St. Mary!!

    You know what? Now I’m realizing why there are certain men who ask me out, that I get a strange “stay away from him” vibe from right away.

    That’s what it is: He doesn’t care about getting to know me. His agenda is sex.

    For instance, there is a man who asks me out everytime I see him. He’s professional, fairly good looking, nice, etc.. no reason for me to say no.

    Except, I just feel this kind of swarminess. Like, it could be any warm body. He never asks about me. He suggests a restaurant and then if I even give a hint of being interested.. in the food… or whatever… he jumps in with the fact that he has a hot tub.

    Really. So he is asking me out for dinner and a hot tub date. That’s why I say no.

    I just got it now.

    Another man, his agenda is not sex, his agenda is “spare me being alone.” Again, it could be ANYBODY, he wouldn’t care. He just doesn’t want to eat alone, go to hockey games alone, the movies alone.. etc.

    What an awareness. I finally realize that there is a difference and more importantly, that my intuition can pick up the difference. And it’s not okay.

  165.  #165Indigo on November 20, 2014 at 9:01 pm


    That awareness is pretty awesome… and yes, it’s not ok. Because some part of you knows that even if they “behave” themselves on the first date, it won’t be long before the agenda is pushed right in front of you. Yuck.

  166.  #166Indigo on November 20, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    I seem to have kind of a different problem. I don’t want to date romantically – because I’m already in love with someone, I’m highly sensitive, and a host of other reasons I could mention – but men who want to date me romantically, who want to make me their girlfriend, seem to be drawn to me like bees to honey. I don’t want to sound arrogant or vain, it’s just the truth. And I just want to be friends. And I’m not really sure how to keep things on that level, or whether it’s even possible.

    I went out for coffee with a man last night – someone I had met once before and had an interesting conversation with and who had been texting me regularly ever since. I let him do the gentlemanly thing, pick me up, pick the restaurant, pay, I don’t know, simply because it feels better to me. And he was perfectly lovely while we were having coffee, which I kept short, but asking me questions angled towards my potential as a girlfriend. I really just want to be friends, I don’t have so many people I can hang out with so for me it’s just the company and talking. He’s asked if I’d like to watch a DVD at his place on Saturday night which I am not going to agree to.

    I don’t know. I’m really just riffing/venting here. It’s just that I finally know what I went and where I’m headed, and I’m having to practice living that now.

  167.  #167Indigo on November 20, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    *what I want

  168.  #168Andrea on November 20, 2014 at 10:36 pm

    I hear you Indigo. What do I want?? What??

    I feel a fortitude, a strength, in being able to be alone with my feelings. I feel like I don’t want him here in my personal space. But.

    I want to feel, from him, that I’m on his mind, that I’m wanted, that I’m vital. Or…
    I want to FEEL vital, important, sexual, necessary, alive.

    AND. I can’t wait for him to make me feel … any way I want to feel. I have to stretch. I have to reach. I have find that feeling inside of myself with or without, this HIM.

    I feel sad because the evidence (in my case) is pointing toward the fact that when he is here in my town, Yes, I make his life a little more bubbly. But when he is not here, in my town. When he is in his “real” life, I am a non-existant entity that he can’t creatively imagine my place in.

    I feel sad because (embarassingly) I have wedged myself into one of those imaginary relationships. Thankfully, because of my time with the RR ideology, I have not nudged, prompted, texted, called, facebook stalked.. etc.. HIM. I am sitting in my sadness. I’m okay in my sadness.

    I just long for the day that all of this comes together for me. I want to be in the relationship I have been meant to be in. I want to be part of a team, part of a partnership. I want to be in love with a man who is in love with me. I want to feel secure in that love.
    I want to feel confident, for once in my life, confident.. that the man I love, also loves me!

  169.  #169Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 12:10 am

    May I share with you what I think about men and their ability to do friendship?
    I think we people (men and women) first of all want a romantic partner. We want friends too, obviously, but there is a special place in the heart which is reserved for a “romantic parner/boyfriends/girlfriend/spouse” and that is a reserved spot, you can fill your heart with all kinds of other things and people, but if that place is empty, that place is empty, and people will always feel this emptiness if it exists. If a man is very attracted to you, and this place is empty for him, his first choice would be to fit you there. Same thing for a woman.
    I also think that many people would not want to let you know whether this place is empty or not, this is a protective measure. Learning to be vulnerable is learning to allow other people to see whether in your heart this place is empty.
    I also think that when you let a man do the romantic things for you (pick you up, drive you around, pay for dates) you are giving him signals that you might be available, that this spot for you might be empty. You did not tell him you are in love with someone else, did you? I think CDing is all about acting as if you might be available in situations in which yes, you might be available, becauase the man of your choice has not confirmed to you that you are the woman of his choice, and that his place is no longer empty, it is filled by you.

  170.  #170Indigo on November 21, 2014 at 12:24 am


    It is so true what you say, and thank you for pointing it out to me. I think on some level I know this.

    I’ve shared before that I struggle a little with CDing for this reason. How available am I really, and how available do I make myself.

    The other thing is that, for me, contrary I suppose to the typical philosophy here, a man’s suitability for me does not have just to do with his masculine behaviour. That is only a small part of it. I need to be able to talk to him about all kinds of things, feel quite a strong mental/friendship connection, share a similar worldview and personality about certain things, and I need to be able to be myself. I don’t necessarily know these things until I’ve spent time with him. And yes, whilst my “first choice” has not yet fully filled that place in his heart with me, I do feel compelled to at least see what else is out there. Knowing all the while that it would be highly unlikely for me to allow another man I meet to fill that place in my heart.

    It’s all a bit of a balancing act. But I have made my choice, and it is the one that feels best for me. Maybe sharing with this guy that I just want to be friends is the way to go.

  171.  #171Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 12:40 am

    I think when you are sure that you want to be just friends, you will let him know.
    You do not need to know right at the start, and I suspect that most of the time we can not know 100% until we spend some more time together.
    Also, I need to tell you, from my experience, men feel heart-broken when they are friend zoned.
    They will very often not show it, and in some rare cases you may actually contunue to be friends with them, but boy it hurts them really bad, the same way it hurts us when we realize we are fine for the FWB role but not fit for his empty space.
    So, I am not saying you should tell him anything. I have no idea how you feel right now, and that might change from now until 5 minutes later.
    If you were not in love with D., could you in theory imagine yourself as being romanitically involved with this other guy?

  172.  #172Indigo on November 21, 2014 at 1:28 am


    I tend to agree that men feel heartbroken when they are friendzoned, even if they may not tell you so. I had agreed with BM that we would be friends after our “break up”, but I had not heard from him in over a month and last night I saw that he had deleted me from Facebook. He actually cried the last time I saw him, so I can only assume that he found it too hurtful to still see news of me.

    I have considered telling this guy about my feelings for Dean, so that he does at least know what’s going on with me, as we get to know each other a bit, and this seems to me to be the most honest, best-feeling thing to do. As to could I see myself romantically involved with him were I not in love with Dean? For a short time maybe, but not in the long term, no.

  173.  #173Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 1:41 am

    thank you so much for bringing this up, your consideration about what is the most honest, best-feeling thing to do.
    I also wonder occaionally what to do… do the most honest thing, or keep my cards close to my chest. Both can feel good to me, even though, as an extrovert, I like to talk a lot. and talking a lot means saying a lot :-).
    Also, I realize, that extreme honesty has a counteproductive effect on having numerous CDs… and I would like to have that. Here you go.

  174.  #174lovetodance on November 21, 2014 at 7:25 am

    thank you victoria and indigo for the thoughtful and insightful dialogues above.

  175.  #175Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 7:36 am

    well thank you for the thank you 🙂 i.e for noticing.
    I feel chatty today, put the lovely ladies still have not come around, and I am in a very different time zone than most of you, which is a shame.
    I just read an article saying that honesty is best served with humility, kindness and mercy…
    I need to remember that.
    How are you doing, Lovetodance?

  176.  #176Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 7:44 am

    I had a short lunch date with F. today.
    He made no plans for the weekend with me.
    I am not leaningforward, I am a rock, I did not ask him a single question about his plans.
    We talked a lillte bit about our Christmas plans.
    What he does not know is that I have 9 more days on my no-lean forward diet, and then I will have an evaluation as to whether I want to spend more time with a man like that, a man who is sweet and loving, and is most of the time late for our dates (and for everything else in his life) and who does not have the reflex to make plans with me for our following date but leaves me wondering when I will see him again.
    I have found my inner peace, and I am smiling to myself, and just observing how he is. Nice.

  177.  #177lovetodance on November 21, 2014 at 7:51 am

    hello victoria
    it is fairly early …grey with rain in the air here…and so wonderful to be feeling that moisture….it has been a horrible draught here….and now we are feeling a bit of relief….

    thank you for asking after me….
    i have an online profile up and have gotten a fair amount of inquiries….alot from men far away…even tho i have said ‘near me’…
    i started responding thank you but no….but it got time consuming…
    i do feel it takes something from each man to put themselves out there….even if they are possibly not on the level….
    in your experience have you responded to each man however their sincerity may strike you…responded with a thank you and thats it….?
    i feel it is honest with humility and kindness….my heart does know my answer…but would love to hear your and others experience…
    thank you victoria and have a splendid day!

  178.  #178Indigo on November 21, 2014 at 8:56 am

    Lovetodance, 🙂 xx

  179.  #179Victoria on November 21, 2014 at 9:31 am

    I have practically zero experience with online dating, so i dont know what the protocol is.
    In real life, i tend not to give a clear no as an answer unless the man is really annoying. Just my two cents.

  180.  #180Labbit on November 21, 2014 at 9:41 am

    164 Indigo — I’m not surprised at all by this. With these men you’re CD’ing you’re exhibiting all the traits of a high-quality catch. You’re scarcely available, live your own full life, you keep things a little mysterious, are friendly and warm and open and feminine with no agenda and the men you’re with likely feel extremely comfortable and intrigued in your presence as a result. You are naturally leaned way back and leaving plenty of space for these men — space which they instinctively rush to fill.

    I feel happy that you are CD’ing — and I hope it’s giving you strength for bringing some of the things you learn into your relationship with D. I’m sure D is a wonderful man and he probably knows this on some level, but I’m not sure he realizes quite how wonderful you really are.

    My eyes have been opened wide and clear by my experiences CD’ing while my relationship with TenderCD progresses. I’ve also found some amazing resources lately that have spurred my growth. Of all of them though this community is definitely my fave…I vibe so well with everything Rori and the coaches here say about getting into our feminine energy. Finally I’m starting to understand how the energy bubble really works and what leaning back is all about.

  181.  #181Labbit on November 21, 2014 at 9:56 am

    166 Andrea — From everything you’ve shared here it sounds like you are doing wonderfully. Even if things are not going exactly the way you pictured they would in this moment, you are so much more Sireny than you think!

    Something that has helped me recently…another way of explaining the energy bubble that Rori talks about in her programs. The main thing to keep in mind is that whatever you want, he has to want it MORE. With sex, a man almost always wants it more than a woman so that one’s pretty cut and dry for most of us. In terms of things like frequency of dates, a relationship, marriage, living together, whatever, our job as the feminine energy partner is to make the man want those things more than we do. We set the pace. To draw him in. To make ourselves such an exhilarating, captivating woman that he can’t help but think of us, want us, want to claim us.

    How do we do it? By making him less important than everything else going on in our lives, until that moment that he’s right in front of us. And yes at first this is way harder than it sounds…was for me, at least. It does get easier. No fantasizing. No jumping ahead. It’s radically accepting what is, downgrading him in your mind below everything else going on in your life, and filling up your life with so much goodness that he barely registers as a thought when he’s not around you. It’s being open to other men no matter how badly any one CD fits your every checklist. Remember that checklist is often based more on dreams and stories we were filled as children rather than the reality of what’s right in front of us.

    Remember that you need to feel cherished for a relationship to work, and the way you feel cherished is to let a man pursue you. He chases you and romances you and cherishes you and respects you. If I chase or romance (aka giving/overfunctioning) or place him on a pedestal he takes me for granted, ignores me, can’t work up the motivation to chase me because he feels he’s already got me. All you ever need to ask yourself is — is he pursuing me right now? If he’s not, I’m off living your life and not worrying about him at all. Give him a Grand Canyon’s worth of space between us. A man who’s really interested will pursue and I’ll feel calm, happy and relaxed instead of anxious, worried or panicked. He knows where to find me.

    You don’t have to do a thing til he’s right there with you. You mentioned he’s a Sag, one of my best male friends is a Sag and he needs TONS of freedom to do his thing. The only women that tempt him are ones that he has to chase after, and though it sometimes takes him long periods between chases, he does go back. The woman who’s captured his heart never kept him on a lead. And one day he decided all on his own that wherever she is, that’s where he wants to be. 🙂

  182.  #182Indigo on November 21, 2014 at 9:57 am


    Thank you for your post – I immensely enjoy your posts and your insight. Thank you for your kind words, and thank you for sharing your wisdom.

    Living this way and being this way certainly does bring one’s authentic self to the surface. You get to see yourself for the wonderful woman that you are, and you also get to see your growth areas, things which you still need to improve, so to speak. I am very thankful for this.

    On some level yes, D definitely does recognize my wonderfulness – but I don’t think it’s fully conscious yet. It’s funny how all of this unfolds – I can feel my journey progressing and everything I am learning, and at some point I feel it will mostly fall into place and that is when I will have my happily ever after relationship. It may be a while, and I am slowly (ever so slowly) coming to see that that timing is right for me, and for who I am.

    I love this community too! And the wise women, such as you, that I get to learn from x

  183.  #183Labbit on November 21, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Also, it’s a warning sign if I start wanting things way more than a man does. If I’m suddenly desperate to see TenderCD, or talk to him, or hear from him, that’s a major clue to me that something’s off with my energy that has nothing to do with him. That’s when he starts leaning back and withdrawing.

    In those times I have to go take care of myself — get a mani/pedi, take a bath, see friends, schedule a weekend away, whatever I can do to love myself. When I start to expect TenderCD to do it for me he pulls back. Most importantly, I have to drop the driving feeling that ‘everything will be OK once I hear from him!’ It’s when I can stay centered, confident, and peaceful he bounces right back to me in that rubber band.

  184.  #184Gemini Goddess on November 21, 2014 at 10:15 am


    I love reading your posts. Could you share the other resources you mentioned that have “spurred” your growth?


  185.  #185Andrea on November 21, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Thank you Labbit. yes.
    This morning I feel, not so much needing, wanting, craving attention from him, or any “him”. I feel such a longing to get back into my own sireny pursuit of self.

    I’m missing ME. That’s for sure. I am coming to the end of a semester, the holidays, depressed about finances.. (hah! as usual) : ) I don’t want to be around ME right now. Much less expect someone else to want to.

    I took the day to myself and am taking care of me. I’ve committed to going to a concert with my best girlfriend tomorrow night. And then Sunday I have my yoga class.

    It’s so true, when I’m focusing more on wanting him when he’s not even in front of me, it’s because I’m missing some part of myself. Thank you for such a succinct reminder.

    Ps. Yes, so true about Sags. My brother is a Sag and I watched him over the years. Need freedom, pull away from neediness and clinginess, yet, when he found his forever girl, he chose to be in her presence. Even moving all the way to LA to be with her.

  186.  #186Labbit on November 21, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Indigo and Andrea — **hugs** to you both.

    182 Gemini Goddess — Are we allowed to link to or mention non-Rori affiliated sites here? I feel uncomfortable not knowing if it’s OK. In the meantime one of the sites I love is Dominique’s, who drops by here frequently to comment: Dominique has coached me and it was more helpful than I ever dreamed.

    Can someone let me know if it’s OK to link to other sites? If it’s cool then yes I’m more than happy to share. 🙂

  187.  #187Azure Blu on November 21, 2014 at 11:54 am

    sophie & veronica & indigo and everyone else…
    All your beautiful, magical, loving vibrations have come my way and have helped charge the energy field around me to sparkly & sunshiny & velvety love
    ALLLLLL around me…
    Love to you all… ThankYOU!!!

  188.  #188Azure Blu on November 21, 2014 at 11:57 am

    lovetodance #118
    WOW… WOW… WOW…
    tears of filled heart are running down my face as i read YOUR magical visualization of me getting on my horse…
    Soooo sweet, and gentle AND powerful…
    YOu are so soft and loving… you beautiful, Siren
    Thank you!!!!

  189.  #189Mistea1 on November 21, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Azure Blu I don’t know if you read my reply to you about musicTd. There were two things that led me to withdraw completely. One was the not stepping up to the plate with the forum project then minimizing it when I brought it up. The second was what my friend said about some emotional problems from childhood which he is aware of and his wife divorcing him about 12 years ago and she doesn’t speak to him now. I knew there was something going on early on but chose to ignore it.

    She and I spoke together at the reception where he also was. When he and I left, we looked at each other and it seemed to me his face had much dark energy as if someone had taken a dark marker and scribbled all over his countenance.

    I you remember I discovered I had not worked enough on a deep abandonment issue. This was the issue that kept repeating it self with men all through my life. I surmised correctly that if I were to make some good headway with resolving this that he would withdraw his energy from me. Sure enough so far so good.
    I did get a copy of the October recital which is the best I’ve ever heard him. So beautiful. In the end it really is all about the music for me. Thanks for asking.

  190.  #190Mistea1 on November 21, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    Azure Blu this is the 3rd time I have tried to respond to you about reason for Music Td getting declined. It keeps disappearing. The friend told me about some deeper issues he had, that and the not stepping up were the main ones. I have a copy of the recital he did last month which is the best I’ve ever heard him. I am blessed. We are all human, the music is sent from another place.

  191.  #191Dominique on November 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Labbit -184 – Yes it’s perfectly alright. Thank you for your lovely words.

    Love to you. xxoo

  192.  #192Azure Blu on November 21, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Thanks darlin’

  193.  #193Labbit on November 21, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    Thank you Dominique!

    Gemini Goddess, a friend pointed me to two sites that helped her out a lot during her dating days. (She’s happily married to a wonderful man who cherishes her.)

    This is the first one:
    All of the articles in the dating/love section are great. The author is whip smart and at first may come across as harsh, but her insights are brilliant and she is amazing at nailing down the problems each commenter faces and dishing out excellent advice. I found a lot of scripting help here. Mostly though it’s helped me to reframe my own sense of responsibility in relationship and see where I was giving my power away. I feel much stronger and more centered now.

    Here’s an example of a back-and-forth between the author and a commenter that touched me deeply:
    “at what point do we reveal our true selves?”

    Well, I think you’re missing the point dear. Warm, gracious, confident and secure…IS your true self.

    Anxiety, worry, insecurity and lack of confidence…are all only FEAR based. And when you give into them, and you believe that THEY are your true self, they will deceive you. When you give in and you let fear, anxiety, insecurity and lack of confidence steer the wheel in your life and take over in the driver’s seat…your TRUE self, the beautiful being that you are, and all that you have to offer the world….are being snuffed out by the FEAR that is in control instead.

    If you overcome the fears – the anxiety, worry, insecurity, etc. – then your TRUE self is afforded the ability to come through, to shine, and to radiate warmth and invite others towards you.

    Your true self is NOT worry, insecurity and anxiety dear. That is NOT who you are, that is NOT all that you have to offer the world, and that is NOT the bulk of your personality as a human being.

    These posts are especially good (and the comments are well worth a read too):

    This is the second site:
    Very straightforward with plain truths. I purchased the E-Guides this site sells and I’m so happy with them…excellent advice, great at breaking down fantasy vs. reality with examples sprinkled in. A lot of it is common sense stuff but for some reason reading it helps me so much. There’s a little bit of scripting in the E-Guides too.

    Here’s one of the pieces of goodness I found on the site:

    For a man, the chase itself can be just as fun as being with you, if not more.

    But he must first think of you as a challenge.

    The definition of a challenge is that it is not easy, has hurdles, and requires hard work.

    He can only pursue you if he is NOT SURE he can win you.

    If the woman assures him she can be easily be won, he will lose interest.

    As a woman, make him work to attain you.

    The only way to do that without being manipulative and conniving is to stay busy making yourself happy and living a full life.

    Naturally he will have to find ways to squeeze into your schedule and grab your attention in order to be with you.

    Clamoring for you is treating you like a challenge — like a PRIZE CATCH.

    Hope this helps! Both of these sites have helped me build upon the stuff I’ve learned here. I feel so comforted having these resources to turn to.

  194.  #194Gemini Goddess on November 21, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    Woo Hoo! Thanks, Labbit. I’ve been steadily working my way through sexandheart. Really great site. Thanks, Dominique! I guess being the “intense” girl I am, I just can’t get enough at the moment. I’m so ready.

    XXOO to all!

  195.  #195Starla on November 21, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Hello Sirens,
    I’m looking for some “feeling” words to say what it’s like for me, when the guy I’m seeing doesn’t makes plans with me in advance and invites me to do stuff same day or even last minute. I’ve done the “I already have plans, what about Sunday” routine and it works, but he doesn’t seem to be getting the hint. We were friends first, and we live in the same neighborhood, so there is already an aire of casualness between us. When I tap into what I’m feeling, t’s mixed, because I’m excited to spend time with him, but it feels so much better when I have an actual “date” to look forward to. I could say I feel “devalued” when the invitations come in last minute, but am open to suggestions from the ladies…

  196.  #196lovetodance on November 21, 2014 at 6:38 pm

    192 starla

    my 2 cents….

    ‘gosh i feel excited to spend time with you but when i don’t know in advance i make plans doing other things…’

    ‘oh that would feel like so much fun with you, but i already made plans….i need more advance scheduling cuz i do like hanging out with you’

    so i have never tried these…but thank you for the opportunity to think what i might try….good luck starla…..

  197.  #197lovetodance on November 21, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    182 azure blu

    ohhh you are so welcome….big, big hug to you beautiful siren…mwah!

  198.  #198lovetodance on November 21, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    labbit 190

    thank you so so much labbit for the time and energy and generosity in passing along these websites and the examples you gleanded
    so wonderful of you….

    wow what would the world feel like with so many happy confident joyfull women!?

    maybe we are on the road to find out!

    thank you again loving siren!

  199.  #199Veronica on November 22, 2014 at 1:15 am

    Azure Blu – 185 – xxx

  200.  #200Veronica on November 22, 2014 at 1:46 am

    I’ve been quietly facing my own vulnerability – sometimes I get into moments where I feel uneasy, afraid of making a mistake, getting stuck in caving in on myself, feeling susceptible to the people I love, feeling the tenderness I have for Funny and the relationship grow, caring more about us and me and him, feeling scared that that will open me up to more pain. I don’t know, something in me keeps pushing over those edges – into the shaky stuff. And my embracing of my vulnerability is so quiet I don’t think I would have noticed it – it’s not loud. And this pushing over edges helps me realise that I am growing/expanding and that this relationship is not like the last one and that things don’t have to follow the same old ways – that last one used to leave me baffled as to how that would happen. I can’t describe the feeling I have when I come out of these moments noticing that my fears fall apart when love just pitches up.

  201.  #201Victoria on November 22, 2014 at 4:01 am

    Thank you so much for sharing your resources.
    I checked briefly some of the sites: very interesting stuff.
    No wonder you are doing so well! Admiration!

  202.  #202Kim on November 22, 2014 at 5:25 am

    Hello Ladies!
    I am busy, dating, meeting with an old CD who is in town from out of state and treating me really well, we are having a lot of laughs.
    Meanwhile MoM has been badgering me to talk, he wants to talk again. We have ‘talked’ a few times and nothing ever got resolved. I am unsure how to handle this talk without blowing up or getting emotional because I feel sure that it is again about nothing, or how sad he feels or how upset he would be if he saw me with another man. Blech.
    I did agree to talk eventually..on Sunday…no Saturday date or anything like that which could evolve into one lf us staying over…

  203.  #203Lotus on November 22, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Feminine Woman – thank you for your kind and wise words ‘I wonder how I could create…’ yes this opens up a new possibility with lighter feeling. And I have started to change the story, one version I tried is ‘i see it as an opportunity.. I have learned so many things from the relationship. I have become wiser and more beautiful from it.’ It always depends on how I am feeling I guess, which at times can be quite heavy, like a downpour. I’m mainly quite light though, i guess being Libra I eventually maintain a balance.
    A light rainfall followed a rainbow would be a perfect transition!
    I have been wanting to riff after another experience..
    I was asked out for drinks by a guy who sold it as a ‘friends’ thing, although I had the inkling that there was more to it, and I was right. I really enjoyed his company – chatting, drinking, experiencing an open mic nite… then he told me how beautiful I am inside and out, and held my hand and told me how he enjoyed my company. He gave me a wristband which said ‘Respect’ as he had been worried about me and my (separated) husband as he had seen him out flirting. I wondered if the message of the night was respect and self-respect, that I am ‘hot property, a beautiful mind and woman’ (his words)…
    I knew he wanted more and I was curious about how it would play out with him. I’ve been curious about other men.. perhaps to make sure I can enjoy being single for longer before opening up to DP guy.
    I had decided that I would go home, but I took up his invitation for a drink and a game of pool back at his, which led to some dancing and kissing. I wish I went home after that, but then my curiousity led me into his bedroom, I allowed him to lure me into his bed. My boundary really stopped at my knickers..
    He was holding me so tight and breathing me in, I could feel his intense hunger for the feminine energy and body. I felt him drink me up and professing things to me, all the things I’ve been hungry to hear from DP, the things I’ve heard before, but DP has held back and gives me romance, tenderness and intense stares instead. I knew in that moment that I have to value myself more, I wasn’t needing this man to hold me, I didn;t need his validation. But I allowed him to hold and kiss me and get rather passionate. I felt like some kind of borderline geisha-whore, that i didn;t cost much, just a few drinks and I ended in his bed. What was in it for me, what ws my price, but to feel lacking in sleep? I felt that I had misplaced myself, I have to limit my time with people and share my energy in a way that fills me up too. How do I check-in with myself next time…
    He told me he wants to make me happy, cook for me, take me out… but my mind is just on DP. Am I attracted to DP more because he isn’t telling me the things I want to hear, yet why has he hinted at things in the future… has even said he wants to meet my dad lol..
    I feel stuck between wanting to open up to DP more but feel scared that it can open to a committed relationship talk.. and I’m not ready for that and I want to enjoy being single for longer to have no ties yet.. but think of DP so much.. it’s been very consuming and takes me off balance..

  204.  #204Victoria on November 22, 2014 at 7:02 am

    You don’t have to talk to him if you don’t want to. You can even stand him up last minute (oh, what heresy!).
    I wish you to have so much fun with the other CD that you practically can not schedule time for MoM.

  205.  #205Lotus on November 22, 2014 at 9:29 am

    Kim – you are the yummy pie! You are the icecream and all the boys are chocolate sprinkles and sauce, whatever you choose! Remember to ground yourself in his presence, be in the moment, feel the chair support you, notice the atmosphere. You are the energy. Surround yourself with a pink glow of love, this love is the love you have for yourself, and the love God and the Universe gave you.
    About to go on a date no.3 with a guy who makes me laugh and I feel respected and appreciated by him. Hopefully I will be having too much fun to think of DP – who is visiting my town for the first time, it has taken me 3mths to invite him.
    Been getting ready for my date and painting my nails whilst estranged husband is downstairs painting my window frame. Woooh I’m a siren and enjoying my girly energy! I am feeling free! A small sense of guilt but he chose to paint it, let him do it I say..

  206.  #206Indigo on November 22, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Starla 192,

    Just my personal opinion, I wouldn’t say “I feel devalued”, for me that sounds a bit heavy.

    I like the word “prefer”.

    Something like “That sounds like such fun, and I wish you had asked me earlier as I prefer to make plans in advance”


    “It would feel so good to me to plan dates or outings a couple of days in advance”

    In my experience that’s all you need to say, and then you can let your actions do the talking.

  207.  #207Labbit on November 22, 2014 at 10:48 am

    199 Kim — You know what’s best for you. If meeting with MoM would cause you to feel pouty, resentful or unhappy then I would not. I’d rather curl up at home with a nice lavender candle and a great book. 🙂

    If you can be happy and carefree then I would meet with him just to hear what he has to say. I wouldn’t say a thing — let him lead and say everything he wants to, listening to him all the way through. And depending on what he says you can say nothing in return, thank him and just leave, or continue the chat. If he doesn’t say anything about moving the relationship forward or becoming exclusive there isn’t really much to talk about, right? If he asks for explanations or how you feel about something don’t answer.

    I would not meet up with him for more than an hour or so. Hopefully he is ready to step up for you in all the ways you want.

  208.  #208Indigo on November 22, 2014 at 10:50 am

    Labbit 190,

    Thank you for sharing this information.

    The stuff from the author about anxiety, insecurity and lack of confidence being fear-driven and not being our true selves was particularly helpful to me.

    It is so easy to think that the anxiety and insecurity and lack of confidence ARE our true selves, but realizing that they are just expressions of our fear and not the real wonderful, beautiful women that we are is comforting, and helps me to find the courage to let my true self out to play when I am feeling anxious or having a tough time.


  209.  #209Indigo on November 22, 2014 at 10:57 am


    You could always try saying straight up to MoM:

    “I feel reluctant to meet if nothing is going to get resolved. I am worried that I will feel frustrated”

    I would also feel reluctant to meet and talk if I were in your shoes. In my experience, talking with a man solves very little unless you can keep it short and to the point. Actions seem to be what is required.

  210.  #210Liquid Light on November 22, 2014 at 11:25 am

    But what if you ARE feeling afraid, sad, angry, or any other “negative” emotion? Are you supposed to put on a happy face and pretend? This seems to directly conflict with the RR way to always be authentic? Or am I just confused?

  211.  #211Labbit on November 22, 2014 at 11:26 am

    204 Indigo — totally agree. When I first read that exchange I cried…it felt so honest and true to me. I’m enjoying a nice bout of confidence and security at the moment yet I remain aware that there is a hole in me that I’ve attempted to fill with men in the past. Now I’m more cognizant of that hole and learning how to fill it myself…how to feel whole and remember that I am a warm, gracious, confident, secure woman…not an anxious, insecure one.

    I still panic and get anxious. But what once was months became weeks of anxiety. And then weeks became days. Now days become hours, hours sometimes just a minute or two of feeling off. Everyone has their ups and downs. This part of me doesn’t scare me the way it once did.

  212.  #212Femininewoman on November 22, 2014 at 11:46 am

    Kim why would you blow up if you are truly done and have no emotional investment? I would talk if I am hoping he might change, otherwise I can’t see the point. Labbit shared some resources earlier on that I believe would be useful in your situation. I am here wondering if you have reason to be feeling guilty that he triggers.

  213.  #213Kim on November 22, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    Indigo, FW, labbit, veronica….thank you thank you!
    So helpful!

    Ah, FW, I migt blow up if he says he feels sad one more time, because my time feels too valuable to hear this again.
    I am impulsive, and I dislike wasting my time.

    So the suggestion above to keep it brief or change my mind last minute seems great.

    For now I am off on a hot date with another CD.

  214.  #214Labbit on November 22, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    206 Liquid Light — You always want to be authentic. 🙂 What you don’t want to do is ACT out of fear, sadness or anger in the context of your relationship. When we do that we tend to regret our words or actions later, because they were based on something our mind made up. Don’t let those feelings take the wheel so to speak. Allow yourself to feel them — don’t stuff them down, welcome them like friends or clues if you can — and then take care of yourself the best way you know how. Usually if I’m feeling mad or sad or anxious or off-balance and I know it’s from something inside of me, I’ll remove myself from my CDs’ presence for a bit. It’s the easiest way for me to re-center myself and it has the bonus of being pursued by men wondering where I am.

    Feelings like fear, anxiety, insecurity anger, etc happen when we are triggered by something. And often that trigger is less about the reality in front of us and more about a memory or event that once happened to us.

    So when you feel overcome by sadness, or fear or anger or whatever, that’s why Rori encourages us to breathe and really get into our body. To feel what parts of your body are tense and work to send love into yourself to release anything you might be holding onto. This gives us time to slow down, get a hold of ourselves and find out what we’re really feeling. Then you can proceed from there.

    If the angry/sad/fearful feelings continue for an extended period and you’ve done everything you can to take the best care of yourself possible and fill yourself up, then it’s OK to bring it up with your man. Or if we’re together on a date and I suddenly feel overcome by a strong emotion, I might say something like, “Hey, I just want to let you know that I’m suddenly feeling really angry. I’m not sure what’s going on or where it’s coming from but something’s spinning in my brain.” A statement of fact that lays no blame. I’ve found that my guy is really responsive to this, and immediately goes into detective help mode. Mostly though I just let the emotions flow like water…they come and go so quickly. In a day we go through so many emotions…most of which it’s not necessary to share with your man.

  215.  #215Liquid Light on November 22, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    Thanks Labbit,

    That sounds like a lot of work to me. I’m not sure I really want to monitor myself and my emotions like that all day. I interpret Rori differently I guess. That’s OK, we all bring our own point of view to this work just like everything else. I can tell you that I have had experiences when I was going through a very tough time (ok, tougher than now cuz now seems like a very tough time too LOL) and went out on dates with men, first dates, and I was so distraught and sad and upset that I cried, yes, on a first date. The men ate it up, and really responded well to it, I couldn’t believe it. One man put his arm around me and thanked me and wanted to comfort me. The other man was completely mesmerized by me and couldn’t keep his attention off of me throughout dinner. It was mind boggling and It went completely against my idea of how I “should” be on a first date and completely against everything I’ve been taught (and everyone has been taught) about how we “should” be. But I think I was just totally letting my guard down a la RR and because I was a total basket case, and like I said, the men ate it up. It was totally flabbergasting and shocking to me but there you have it. It was a total RR moment though that’s for sure. So as for me, though I don’t really like being like that on a first date or on any date, I’m not inclined to moderate myself constantly either which it feels like is what you are suggesting. Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting what you said.

  216.  #216Liquid Light on November 22, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    Btw, footnote, not only was I crying but I was really angry with one of the men, the one that was totally mesmerized by me. Go figure.

  217.  #217Indigo on November 23, 2014 at 1:38 am

    Liquid Light,

    “I’m not sure I really want to monitor myself and my emotions like that all day.”

    That’s all very well, but the problem is, as another writer who works a lot with emotions and whose work I greatly admire (Linda Kohanov) puts it, when you let your emotions just all hang out, you run the risk of trampling someone else’s boundaries.

    It’s all very well to experience the anger or frustration for example, but what if they are really coming from something you experienced earlier in the day, and not from anything the person in front of you did? You might lash out or offload all your feelings onto an innocent bystander. It’s not ok to do that.

    I first became aware of this at a time I was working at a really stressful job at a law firm. I used to go straight to the stables each day after work. It was in the early stages of me working with my horse, and I experienced massive swells of anger and frustration. Thinking my horse was being difficult or obstroperous, I directed my frustration at her. Until one day I realised I was carrying all my emotion from the office and my day with me. I decided to simply admit my emotions to myself on arriving at the stables and just look at them and sit with them for a bit before working with my horse. That was the turning point, and everything soared for us from then onwards.

  218.  #218Indigo on November 23, 2014 at 1:49 am

    Labbit 211,

    I think that’s why I enjoy your posts so much, I really relate to your journey with anxiety.

    That part of myself doesn’t scare me so much any more either. Where once upon a time that part of me had the ability to fill my head with the most awful-sounding stories which would send me into an absolute tailspin I couldn’t see my way out of, now I can mostly just see the stories for what they are, take a step back from them, smile at them a bit. The real me, the confident, calm one, mostly comes shining through and takes charge after a much shorter time.

    I still experience anxiety, as you mentioned, but it used to be, even up to a few short months ago, days or weeks. These days it might be a couple of hours, and then I get a respite, and it might come back again later in the day, and then dissipate again after half an hour. The intensity is much less.

    In fact yesterday evening as I was driving, I came to the realisation that I actually love my life, it’s the internal chaos that I create for myself that I don’t enjoy. So I’ve just decided to keep that realisation close to me, and keep reminding myself of that next time I feel bad and anxious. All is actually well.

  219.  #219Labbit on November 23, 2014 at 9:54 am

    215 Liquid Light — Yeah, I can see how my explanation might not have been clear. It’s a concept I’m still grasping myself…so while it makes sense to me and feels natural it’s hard for me to express it clearly and succinctly.

    It’s all about us finding what works for each of us, right? And supporting each other in that search and discovery. 🙂 Perhaps another Siren can explain this better. I like Indigo’s take as well.

  220.  #220Starla on November 23, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Thank you Lovetodance and Indigo. I appreciate your feedback.

  221.  #221Victoria on November 24, 2014 at 12:08 am

    @ Lotus 203
    There is such power in being desired!
    When I read your post I was thinking about my own situation with F: I am not sure he is the man for me (there are a number of personality traits in him which I don’t like) but at the same time I want his attention, even his devotion! I want him to chase me and try to trap me, that feels good, I don’t want to be the one to call, or initite, or organize dates.
    CDing is the best experience a woman can create for herself!

  222.  #222Victoria on November 24, 2014 at 3:39 am

    So, 24 days into my no-lean forward diet, this is where I am.
    I last saw him on Friday, he made no arrangement to see me over the weekend, and did not share anything about his plans (neither did I of course).
    He sent me a love letter on Saturday, saying how much he loves me and misses me.
    I did not reply. I decided it is better to say nothing.
    I have played the love letters game the previous weekend, and before – he writes to me he loves me, I write to him that I miss him, and there is zero action.
    He called me today saying we had a night shift at work last night (he must have known that he will be doing that already on Friday but did not tell me) and said he has caught a cold and has been feeling sick the whole weekend and today. I wished him best wishes for fast recovery, told him to get plenty of vitamin C, and excused myself with being very busy at work.
    He said he was re-reading my old love letters (that was a hint that I did not reply to the last one which I pretended I did not hear). He said he feels so good when he reads my letters and can tell from them that i truly love him. I said, yes darling, I love you with all my heart, get well quickly, I need to run now.
    I am so happy with myself for doing that. I don’t know where this is going, but I just like how it feels to me. I am the prize.

  223.  #223Emerson on November 24, 2014 at 5:33 am

    155 Victoria
    🙂 <3

  224.  #224Labbit on November 24, 2014 at 10:56 am

    Victoria — It’s so exciting to hear about your no-lean forward diet! I love that F brought up not receiving a response love note from you…it shows how attuned to you he is, that he noticed and is at least curious about what’s going on in your mind. I giggled.

    Does it feel weird at times not leaning forward? I sometimes still feel a strong urge to do it…especially when a CD makes a suggestion about something he’d like me to do. I love hearing about how you feel right now. It’s empowering.

  225.  #225lovetodance on November 24, 2014 at 11:21 am

    yes victoria…how wonderful it feels to see this being embodied and manifested by you…

    i know this is how it works….and i suspect i too am also turned on by someone not being always totally available….it then allows me to come forward…..

    its that physics thing ….the energy bubble as rori calls it….the dance…..

    very fascinating and essential topic of knowing….

  226.  #226Gemini Goddess on November 24, 2014 at 11:34 am


    What kind of suggestion about what he’d like you to do? Like making plans or organizing something? D likes for me to help organize dinner parties at his house with the wives and girlfriends as far as date, time, and availability. Also, when we went to D.C. for an extended weekend after his business trip he asked me to find some options for dinner and going out. Is this leaning forward, leaning back, not leaning at all? He planned the whole rest of his business trip, hotel, location, researched and bought my airline tickets, etc. around my availability, so I felt like it was a reasonable request. In fact I felt like NOT doing it would have been a bit selfish. I went on Yelp, found my top 5 choices and he asked around and made the final selection. He gives me little tasks like this often. The energy bubble is unclear to me on this kind of thing.

  227.  #227Azure Blu on November 24, 2014 at 11:38 am

    Ahhh… yes… the NO lean forward diet
    B cd (POF) and I have been talking on the phone and text for the past week…
    I’ve so enjoyed our conversations…
    he’s mentioned having been in therapy and working out some deep baggage…
    How he is able to understand his feelings more…
    he shared that he really wants to meet a woman that has time to spend on a relationship (Yay!!!)
    He has many of the same political beliefs as me also…
    He wanted to meet last week but I couldn’t
    so this morning he texts asking what day this week would be a good day to meet…
    I said it would feel good to make plans over the phone and he called..
    I said Wed. at 1;00 would work for me and to meet me in my town at this certain restaurant… (he lives 30 min away)
    He said he would rather meet half way
    Me: ohhh… I am looking forward to seeing you… I am an old fashion girl and like to be courted…
    It would feel good if he would meet me in my town…
    He: So I guess you’re not willing to meet me halfway…
    you’re an old fashion girl but I’m looking for a current woman.
    Me: I understand…
    I’ve enjoyed our conversations…
    It has been nice getting to know you…
    Happy fishing.
    Him: Well you could change it all by meeting me halfway…
    I’m not going to respond…
    this is a deal breaker for me…
    I have NEVER had a man NOT want to come to my town for our dates (maybe later when we get to know each other MUCH better I visit him).
    So interesting…

    There are Many more men online messaging and wanting to talk…
    Ahhh… Sirens…sooo many men… so little time!!!

  228.  #228Victoria on November 24, 2014 at 11:57 am

    It does feel weird not leaning forward. Basically, i could hardly sleep last night after i ignored his love letter for two days. I am sure he must have cheched his email a hundred times… I sooo want to tell him i am crazy about him.
    There is a big but. I am not getting my needs for attention met by him. I want to be chased, and I need to make sure I am not in his way to do it. It is for the benefit for both of us to let him do it. So we will see where it goes. I am so gorgeous and it would be such a shame if he loses me… He has all my sympathy 😉

  229.  #229Azure Blu on November 24, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    Victoria…THAT is PERFECT!!!
    What a Sireny Statement
    ” I am so gorgeous and it would be such a shame if he loses me… He has all my sympathy ;-))”

  230.  #230Labbit on November 24, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    226 Gemini Goddess — I think it really depends on the phase of the relationship. If you’re just starting out dating, any kind of initiating or planning may seem like leaning forward to a man. But if you’re in a committed relationship it’s expected that there will be a give and take. The scenario you mentioned sounds like a perfect balance to me in a committed relationship — I love that you picked out 5 different places and then he made the final decision. That feels warm and secure, like a team working together.

    I was thinking more along the lines of when I first start out with a CD. Sometimes they’ll say things like, why don’t you call me tonight when you’re off of work? or I’d like it if you texted me first. In those cases I choose to lean back and not initiate.

    227 Azure Blu — Good on you holding your ground. 🙂 It feels odd to me that a ‘current woman’ is someone who would meet him halfway…yet in a month or two he’s no longer attracted to that woman who meets him halfway and wonders why…your strength and value of yourself is sure to attract the right man to you, one who will respect and cherish you.

    228 — Victoria, hee hee!! YES. That is my mindset as well. Last week TenderCD broke a date with me on Friday night…I was cooking a really nice dinner for both of us. I was so tempted to lean forward and say that I’d head over to him (he was at work) and feed him there. Instead I just said, “Oh…too bad, you’re missing out. This meal tastes soooo yummy.” That night I felt this weird surge of guilt like I’d done something wrong and was thinking of all the things I could say on Saturday to make it up to him. Then I realized I was being silly, chilled out and read until I fell asleep. The next day he called me pretty early in the morning, said he’d been dreaming about the meal he’d missed all night, was sorry, and were there any leftovers he could have? LOL. And then we had our usual Saturday night date where he took me to a restaurant I’d mentioned I wanted to try. Leaving the space and not rushing forward to fill out allowed him too instead and I felt so, so good.

  231.  #231Victoria on November 24, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    I do not know whether giving him the space will help him initiate more. May be it will not. In the last month he has not changed, it is me who changed, and the change is that i am somewhat bored with him. I have not stopped loving him, but i did realize i have massively overfunctiomed in the past and that leaves me exhausted, and i am no longer keen to do it
    We will see. May be i will just break up with him – i never managed to do this in the past while i still love a man, but now i feel i am growing up and getting stronger. Thank you for your support and for being an inspiration!

  232.  #232Labbit on November 24, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Victoria — You definitely have his attention. Whether or not he changes, or adjusts, or responds remains to be seen as you say. That you accept him for who is and then are taking care of you…that’s the best thing you can do for the both of you and your relationship. Feeling that freedom of being able to say “I could walk away” is immensely powerful. I’m sure that the right decision will become clear to you. Who knows what wonderful surprises the next few weeks may bring? 🙂

  233.  #233Gemini Goddess on November 24, 2014 at 3:36 pm


    “I want to be chased, and I need to make sure I am not in his way to do it. It is for the benefit for both of us to let him do it. So we will see where it goes. I am so gorgeous and it would be such a shame if he loses me

    Oh, I LOVE this! I’m drafting off of your siren-ness!!!

    Labbit (and everyone)-

    How interesting. I had not considered there would be different leaning back in a committed relationship, though it makes since. This will be a challenge for me. I am trying to recreate my psyche for the long term. Thing is, I’ve never had problems roping them in when I’m NOT emotionally invested. I’ve been engaged three times and slid into one marriage, which makes me feel yucky and sort of sick to admit. Hard not to judge myself. It’s been when I’ve truly cared that I’ve melted into a spineless emotional mess, and it hasn’t worked out. Classic. I want to both emotionally invest AND lean back. I want the REAL DEAL. I realize this isn’t exactly an original idea on this site, but it has been my personal challenge (Just changed my word from “is” to “has been”). I think I’ll go back an review some relationship materials. 🙂

  234.  #234Gemini Goddess on November 24, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    BTW- We’re eight months in and he is doing all of the future talking. I’m thrilled, and terrifies to “mess it up:. A great problem to have. 🙂

  235.  #235Gemini Goddess on November 24, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    terrified, terrifies….gah!!!

  236.  #236Mistea1 on November 24, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    Hi all, las several posts not going through testing this one.

  237.  #237Mistea1 on November 24, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Victoria, Azure Blu,
    Well, started lean back Oct 25 after he did not follow through. His opinion was that he would just see me around. I’ve been scarce since then.

    Recital on Nov. 16. As soon as he saw me he started acting like I was chasing him. Kind of late I thought. I had fun at the reception by getting the low down on him from a friend. Wife dumped him 12 years ago, can’t stand him. He has mother rejection issues and other serious stuff. so like Victoria I am seeing the real him and it is boring. He is very immature and is acting like he is god’s gift to women right now. I finally went back to the services and he played this otherwise beautiful piece loudly and aggressively. Right now I can’t even listen to him play because he is using music as a weapon. I’m feeling like I may have triggered something in him and he is using whatever to punish me for his issue. So he is keeping well away from me and I can at least move about the building. At the social hall he and I moved about the room not making eye contact and no approach by him. In a way I was relieved.

    Last Tuesday I asked him about the status of the project and he blew me off, then tried to flirt with me using some recyled stuff from 2 months ago. Ewww. Nooo, I do not get treated that way.

    In some ways I am feeling sad as there is great beauty about him but his human part is soo immature. At least I have gotten to write poetry and stories out of this and I’ve discovered the many powers of music to penetrate body, heart and soul. Luckily there are many musical listening opportunites including a world class orchestra here in the area. Here is my experience for whatever use it may be. Maybe just a cautionary tale.

  238.  #238Liquid Light on November 24, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Disclaimer: broken goods inside with plenty of extra baggage.

    I’m just realizing how often men display their disclaimers far and wide but women try to hide them

    At least, that’s what I’m seeing looking back on my last relationship. I was desperately trying to convince him that I wasn’t broken and he was desperately trying to show me that he was, like a warning label.

    So interesting.

    And now I see it because I’m realizing how broken I am and I understand wanting to present the disclaimer early on as in “just so you know what you are getting into to.” I totally get that and couldn’t even see that I was trying to convince before because I was trying to convince MYSELF….wow!!

    Seeing it now! So fascinating!

    There is a certain amount of liberty in not trying to convince and presenting the disclaimer upfront without any masking…hahahaha!! Wow!!!

    OK, I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine so I hope this isn’t the wine speaking but this feels like a big insight!

  239.  #239Indigo on November 24, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Right decision! Go you!


  240.  #240Victoria on November 25, 2014 at 12:31 am

    Azure Blu,
    You are so sweet, and kind, and welcoming, and gentle with all of us here!
    Because of that, I am in fact a bit surprised that you shut him down so radically.
    I would have taken this as an opportunity to find out what “a current woman” entails. She probably also pays half of the bill on a first date? That is just curious for us to know :-).
    That being said, I think he probably triggered you in more than one way for you to be so strict about this boundary.
    What I want to say to you (and to me of course) that for proper CDing you need at least 3 men in the rotation. So, I am making this a goal for myself (I have only two lately) and until I fill up the places, I will not be shooting down even the lame ducks. My boy energy has so much stuff to do, he finds it hard to do what I need from him…

  241.  #241Victoria on November 25, 2014 at 12:49 am

    The other thing is, dear ladies, I am so grateful for your support.
    And, because you have been so kind and supportive, I think I can share this one with you.
    I suspect that my F. is a player.
    I suspect that he keeps me on my toes on purpose, not because he is a moron, and does not understand that I hurt when he forgets to make plans for us.
    He is a very intelligent man, and a very sensitive one,
    and I think he knows how women function.
    And I think he is playing a game with me.
    What he does not know if that he is not playing only against me, but against a whole siren island :-).
    Either way, I lean back, and thank you for being here for me.

  242.  #242Azure Blu on November 25, 2014 at 7:18 am

    Liquid Light #238
    I love what you are saying here…
    I was actually feeling the same thing this weekend…
    yOu have written it sooo well…
    When looking closely…I too, have a difficult time showing the real, everyday me…
    SHE is beautiful!!
    I do have baggage…
    I have worked on taking out some of the dirty clothes and heavy objects…
    but i still have some carry on… :-))
    I have gotten better at letting the men know an immaculate house is NOT that important to me…
    I do tend to run late…
    sooo I’m thinking
    it is ME LOVING ALLLLL parts of ME more and more…
    So I’m not so scared to show others…

  243.  #243lovetodance on November 25, 2014 at 8:13 am

    oh victoria 241!
    i just love you and what you said about what he doesn’t know
    ‘….what he doesn’t know is that he is not playing only against me, but a whole siren island :-]…’

    yes collective wisdom that comes from sharing of stories, experiences, insights, experiments etc….is sooooo powerful….i believe its one way we push the evolutionary force ahead…..towards more health and possibility and happiness and really optimal survival…

    and when we do find if someone is a player…it is them in the long run who lose….they lose us, our trust, our love, our heart….

    thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts victoria!
    really such a sad game….

  244.  #244Lotus on November 26, 2014 at 7:10 am

    I have noticed a calmer feeling in being with my feelings. My feelings feel more heard and acknowledged. I am just slower in voicing my feelings when triggered. The channel between my heart and mouth seems to be melting slowly. Last night, my estranged husband asked if I wanted to have some food with him on his birthday after I gave him a birthday card. I felt awkward, weird and bad. All I could say was I’m not sure (but it meant no) and to keep standing my ground, strong inside, soft on the outside. I didn’t move away and would have welcomed a hug, for both of us. He had to leave, I could see the upset all over his face. I imagine giving him a day, maybe a weekend.. thoughts of being intimate with him, feeling close, feeling loved, but it would feel like a dark slippery slope downwards, I don’t want to go there. I want to feel elevated. I want to make myself happy and not just the man.

    After he left, I cried a little and held myself, and wrote a text to him with the real feeling message, but didn’t send. That was enough for now. Feeling unresolved, I need to stay on my horse.

    Feelings of gratitude and love for Auntie on the phone, and slowly I melted, took a breath to pause, and I finally told her how grateful I was for sending my cousin round to help with diy. Tears rolled down my face, I felt as though another layer is breaking, those walls are melting. Words like these are soo much harder to express in Chinese, they have more clout.

    Deep breaths, I am feeling stronger. Hoping tenderDP will call tonight to make plans for weekend, and I will have to be brave to go into my feelings and keep my heart open.

    Been on the brink of wanting to retreat from men due to the challenging waters of dating!! And have been saved by Valarie O’Ryan, amazing coach of RR. xxx

    Daria has inspired me, how could I be angry with a man? It seems to push them away, apart from my dad. I am somewhat fearful of my anger, it makes me feel like a right hissy-boots!

  245.  #245Alice on December 3, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Dear Andrea Victoria Emerson Indigo & Lotus – and All,
    Thank you so much for your kindness and support. It meant a lot to me.
    I’m discovering my anger and my rage… things I am totally alienated from, because I thought if I was nice enough he would love me or choose me. Because I was taught that it’s always about the man in a relationship, because my dad beat the crap out of me when I grew up and became an equal to him.
    It’s been so liberating feeling rage for The Guy. Allowing myself to feel rage, hatred, anger… even though it’s all part of the grieving process and all tied to my love for him. I feel so much more whole and SAFE when I tell myself it’s ok to be angry, it’s ok to feel rage. I usually just write it out in a journal or conjure up fantasies in which I treat him like shit. I’ve always been focused on being nice and gracious that maybe in the future if ever our paths were to cross again, I could give it a go, be an absolute bitch to him because I really dont give a shit about this relationship anymore. Well, that’s not exactly true but I really will never care for him or any other guy more than myself ever ever again.
    I went through my correspondence with him over the years and I was always giving way too much. Even when he initiated. He gave so little. I should have just kept him out of my life. Well I threw him out of my life now.
    Part of me still hankers after him. And I let myself grieve and weep and wail as well when I need to.
    I’m past numbness. I was too afraid for months to feel anything. But i feel strong now. ANd though things seem to be going slow i think on one level im propelling myself forward. Forcing myself to feel what I feel. Confront my feelings. the rage and sorrow of this relationship, the loneliness, the fears about my career. I feel so strong when i confront my feelings. when i feel them. like, ‘yes, i can feel this, this is part of me, it’s going through me right now, it’s ok, let it out’. it’s like CEO Alice taking care of Poet Alice 🙂 I need CEO Alice more. I like her. I should listen to her more. Let her guide me. And I love Poet Alice she is just THE SEXIEST most beautiful erotic sensitive tender creature with the most beautiful hair who can have dozens of orgasms in one night (TRUE STORY!! haha) and write beautiful tender loving poetry the next day.
    I love myself.
    And I love all the sirens out there whose energy courses through me, who show me what it’s like to be feminine and strong, the strength that is required for us to cultivate and protect our precious tender femininity.
    Love and light to you all.

  246.  #246Alice on December 4, 2014 at 11:53 am

    These quotes from one of Rori’s posts really hit home for me, about wanting punishment:

    “It comes from habit – from the atmosphere in which you were raised where your WANTS… were dismissed, in fact – where you were perhaps PUNISHED just for WANTING… And so we go out and punish ourselves. We’re accident-prone, or we go out and hire some guy to hit us over the head with his lack of love.”

    Well yes i was punished for wanting respect, for wanting to be appreciated for my intellect, for wanting unconditional, parental love from my father and not just an intellectual connection. Instead he beat me up when i graduate from college because he was that threatened by me. He was the man, the person, i had loved the most till that point. Not anymore. Not since then.

    And yet i keep repeating this pattern. Going for mean guys and being crushed when they dont love me. And still Im sabotaging myself in this phd program. Because how dare I do a phd? And my dad keeps telling me to quit the phd.

    I hate him.

    I want to love myself. I want to love poor little baby Alice, who went through so much pain, and deserved so much better. I’ll be there for you Alice, even though Mom is gone and no one else is here to cherish us. I will always love you. I’m sorry I’ve failed you so many times. I’m broken too. And I don’t want you to feel guilty or responsible for that. You dont have to take care of me. I have to take care of you because you’re my child, the child me. The tender loving angel, divine gift from the universe.

    I’m trying really hard, baby Alice. Your softness is such a joy and a strength for me. I know I don’t spend that much time with you, I abandon you and run away from you sometimes. And I know how much it hurts you and I’m sorry. It’s just that your vulnerability is so scary for me – its purity, its innocence, the essence of untainted love and idealism I see in your bold big eyes, shining so ferociously. “You are my dream” as Mom wrote from the other world in the letter yesterday. And YOU are MY dream, Alice. My child. The child I want to have so much so i can give it my tenderness and my love. And you are my child. And when I have my own they can be your friends because I know how much you love being with other kids. How much they make you smile. How connected you feel to your own life energy and all the energy of the universe when you’re lost in play with them.
    You’re so beautiful Alice that it shocks me.
    And maybe that’s what The Guy saw too, he saw you, he saw your beauty and he said he was so incredibly moved by it, by us, by our sensitivity. It was a torture for him to let go of us, he said, and I can see why, because maybe he saw me, my eroticism, my intellect, my beautiful laugh and smile, the grown up Alice, and he saw you, the force of life you are, and maybe he was so weakened by it, by the intensity of what he felt in that moment of recognition, that it was too much for him to bear… he couldn’t afford it. To be so moved. To be rendered so powerless by someone so very tiny and vulnerable as you.
    It does not matter why, baby Alice. We don’t concern ourselves with silly boys who don’t want to play or love with us.
    Mmuah. What matters is that you keep laughing, you keep playing, keep shining your light, the light that keeps me going, keeps my spirit burning through the darkness of all the despair and loneliness and loss we’ve had to endure.
    Your tenderness makes me feel so strong. The purity of it is so moving. It makes me feel strong enough to feel love, the part of the relationship with The Guy that was love.
    TG, I think we both know how much I loved you. All these years…. one of the few absolutes of this time for me has been what I felt for you.
    And I was moved too by what we shared. How I felt like I was a part of you when you looked in my eyes and saw a part of yourself…. a part of your past.. a soul your soul had met before, in another place, another time, speaking another language…
    It was that moment of recognition that had us hooked – I’ve found that missing part of me… and so I chose – and I know I did CHOOSE, somewhere, in the depths of my subconscious – to fuse my soul with yours.
    And I became your slave. I was bound in chains.

    But… then… all the rest. Reality with a capital R. The Real World. The inexplicable choices you made…

    It’s not ok with me, TG. Your choices are not ok with me.

    I don’t want to be consoled by the fact that a part of you will always regret the choices you made. I deserve real happiness. Endless joy, bottomless laughter, the safest and most elevating sex. And baby Alice is incapable of being consoled by someone else’s sorrow. She is too pure.

    All I can do is feel The Gift (TG) of what I felt for you. What a divine gift it was from the universe. Who knows why? It’s not for me to know why. It’s for me to say thanks, universe. For filling my heart with so much of your love. And I am naught but a conduit for all your energy, it swims inside me, courses through me like a powerful river, so variegated and full of contradictions, all beautiful, all essential, all Life.

    Thank you, universe for TG – the precious gift you gave me that is Life, that is you, that is me. It’s been a joy to live this life, to feel it and embrace it and touch it with the special and unique energy of my own soul. I am forever grateful.

  247.  #247lovetodance on December 4, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    ohhhhh alice….
    thank you for sharing this most beautiful soulful rendering of who you are now and how you feel now….and what you are experiencing now

    all this knowing ,this strength this knowledge of how you have loved, how you love and what you have experienced at this point in your evolution… the lessons and the trials and the despair and the incredible joy of it …

    thank you for sharing what is there…not painting it pretty…just the raw struggles and triumphants of being a human…a human woman…now at this time on the earth….

    keep reaching out for the ones who have the ability and wisdom and love to support all that you are and are becoming….

    with love and respect….me

  248.  #248Andrea on December 4, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    Oh Alice.. I want to reach out and hug you. I feel a surge of openness and sadness and vulnerability. We are allowed to let ourselves be that way sometimes.

  249.  #249teresa on December 4, 2014 at 6:11 pm



  250.  #250Mistea1 on December 4, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    Alice What can I say about this? Except thank you for your expression of what I have felt at times too.
    In appreciation.