Maintaining Relationships With Two Men And Keeping Them Secret From Each Other: Is It Even Possible?

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navigating loveThough Irina has asked me to “not judge her” – why would any of us judge something we all feel sometimes?

We all find ourselves caught between “wants.”

Caught between what’s “right” (or what we think is right…) and what we desire.

Caught between what people tell us we should want, and what we feel, deep inside ourselves, compelled to want.

Caught between what we think we want – and what we really want – and often unable to tell the difference, because these different wants all come from inside US!

What Irina is talking about here is a fantasy dream situation a great many of us have: A loyal, wonderful, loving man steady by our side – AND a wild, sexy, heart-quivering man for the romantic stuff.

Who doesn’t want that?

(Yeah – we want that all in one man – and yet, is that possible?)

The Question:

“Dear Rori,

I’ve been reading your advice, and have already got 2 of your e-books that has helped me a lot! Thank you very much for these fantastic insights into such a complex field which is the realm of love relationships!

I am writing you because I need some feedback about a (sort of) love story that has gone wrong all of a sudden and I feel the loss and would like to do something to rescue it.

The whole situation is:
– I have a stable relationship for 10 years that makes me very happy, however in the begin of the year I met somebody (who also has his stable relationship), and we got involved, mostly platonically (we had 3 dates, some kisses but no sex, and we’ve experienced a strong mutual attraction).

– In fact, the encounter has happened in a very difficult period of my life, when I had just discovered a breast cancer. At the same period, I went into surgery and later, chemo and radiotherapy (when I met him, I was experiencing the fear of the diagnoses, just about to perform the biopsy).

– Along the treatment, my real boy friend took care of me, giving me a great love and that was the most beautiful thing I could wish and I am so thankful for that! On the other hand, the other guy kept in touch by internet, giving me a special emotional support during the whole period (after the surgery, I went to another city for the chemotherapy and we stayed in different places all the time).

– Along the months, in the middle of all the suffering with such a difficult treatment, there was this rich and intense fantasy being fed, with promises of everlasting friendship, besides a very soft and affectionate romantic stuff.

– Well, we’ve met again last week, when the treatment was over (and the hair is coming back), but unfortunately, it felt all a bit strange, the emotions were vanished, we had some intimacy but all very far from what we’ve expected.

– Yes, there was a insecurity concerning the hair, but my self-steem was not low (thank God, I did not lose my breast) and he was saying all the time that he would love to see me the way I was, and that he would shave his head to be like me, ezv…

– Is important to tell that we went to bed and were intimate. Even tough my intuition said to me that it should not happen immediately, I couldn’t avoid it for the simple reason that we’ve fed the fantasy for such a long time that it seemed natural to let it happen with a certain urgency. Well, although he was very involved, he did not have a full erection and I think it made him disappointed after the fantasy that was created.

– After he was gone, I proposed by email to become friends and he agreed. The strange thing is that he said that it was the best to avoid problems… what kind of problems? problems with his relationship? but why only now he mentioned that? Of course I don’t want problems for him or for myself. But I felt very sorry and really devastated after all. How could such a beautiful contact has gone wrong?

Since I can’t share this situation with anybody else, I ask your help to understand and to try to do the right thing to get back the magic and the affection that we have built during this special time of my life. I just hope you can understand my conflict although I know this is an unusual case. The idea is not to get this guy to marry me, he is married and me too and I don’t want to change that. But I want to get him back to the soft feelings and the powerful attraction we were experiencing because it touched my heart as a special gift form the universe and I want to be able to receive that and not to just renounce as a superficial and futile episode…

Of course there was a conflict in my heart because of my relationship and, of course, for the fact that he is committed too. But I decided to accept it as a gift of God in such a difficult period in my life, a gift of love that I wanted to make space in my life to, if not as a love story, surely as a honest open friendship.

Please, help me and try to do not judge me…I also ask to do not publish my name and email.

Thank you very much in advance! I’ll be waiting for your words!

Love,
Irina”

My Answer:

We all want everything.

We’re all looking for something called “True Love” – where the forever-after-ness is a given. And where that “given” is because of fate, destiny, undeniable chemistry – some sort of “rightness.”

Whenever things get “boring” or frustrating, or just not what we imagined – or if we’ve joined with a man because of all his excellent traits and not because of some inner, chemical compeller – we want something we’re “missing.”

Something exciting we just KNOW is out there.

Something exciting that seems to come to life in circumstances like Irina’s – where she’s actually MET a man she has these compelling, highly attached feelings for.

And – I’m not saying that’s “wrong.”

Or that it’s not “real.”

I know some men who are just, well…”all that.”

I can name at least two (besides my great husband of course…) – Eben Pagan, my former business partner and still friend, and Steve Warwick, my long-time business partner and friend.

Any woman who hooked up with either one of them (and two lucky women have) would likely never even FEEL that restlessness that comes for wanting something “more.”

They are highly conscious, sensitive, incredibly smart, and powerful in their fields. That covers all the bases for most of us.

Most men don’t come close to that spread of looks, sexiness, honesty, sensitivity, consciousness, ability to “do” love, smarts and power and money in the world.

AND – though I haven’t heard anything from either of those two women to give me even an inkling that the “restlessness” would EVER “kick in…” we are, I believe, born and bred to not feel good about what we have.

The truth is – nothing a man has or does either out there, or even inside our relationship, can compete with “The Unknown.”

The Unknown is scary-exciting, and the Unknown is different-exciting.

Secrets or all kinds are scary-exciting, different-exciting, and create shame and guilt which cause anxiety-exciting.

It all gets our blood going and our thoughts racing – and most of us are taught to get caught up in the machinations of our minds…

The reality is – being with two men can be great. Many people do it (people I KNOW are doing it, well!).

If you do it openly, it’s called “Polyamory” – and though it’s tricky – it can work brilliantly.

If you do it secretly, it’s called “an affair” – and it’s the lying that usually does people, relationships and hearts in.

I don’t know anyone who’s never been tempted to have a secret “affair,” or to attempt to do that “openly.”

And we each know of someone who seems to have actually gotten the complete satisfaction they desire from the situation as it’s happening, or the end result (Brad and Angie…).

For most of us ((though varying statistics show close to (or over) 50% of married people have “affairs…”)) – it all stays in the “fantasy” realm.

In the fantasy realm – it’s all under our control.

Once it gets “real” and actual in daily life – things become uncontrollable

And that’s what Irina is experiencing.

In the world of real, where other people are involved – we still have scary-exciting and different-exciting…

Only – we can’t make it up quite as “good” as we can when it’s all in our heads.

If what you want is a married man, and/or if you’re married yourself and what you want is TWO men – I can’t say that’s not “a good idea.”

If you use the Rori Raye Siren Tools (and especially if you work with a RR Certified Coach) – you’ll likely do well with each man…AND –

…it’s pretty challenging to stay centered, calm, at peace with all that scary-exciting and different-exciting floating around.

Things work out. I’ve known several women who’ve had two men – and decided on one over the other as time went by.

I’ve known women who continue for years and years (forever-like) in polyamorous relationships and have a basic “friendship” with everyone they also have sex with.

I know women who have affairs and are NOT consumed by guilt at the lying – and feel “happy.”

We both know stories of celebrities of all kinds where sexual and romantic adventures outside the marriage or relationship are tolerated – for awhile – and then suddenly there’s a split (Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher…).

And we both know stories of celebrities of all kinds where even a single “dalliance” is the breaking point (Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson…).

Relationships with one person are such an intense part of the self-development road we’re all on…with TWO – well, double the strain and, perhaps double the learning.

I’m not here to judge.

I’m here to say: Whatever it is you’re wanting, desiring, chasing – it’s going to help you learn something. And having everything we dream of is not a ridiculous dream, either.

There’s just a huge difference between wanting, desiring, chasing, “trying to make happen” – and simply allowing, accepting, and receiving.

The whole experience of allowing and receiving may not be less scary-exciting or scary-different – or even look much different in what seems like “reality” – than the experience from pushing wanting, chasing, trying to make happen (and we may not even know from where our decisions are coming from in the moment we make them).

AND – you’ll always know at some point by what you feel.

Either you’re agitated and disappointed and wanting more and better, or you’re grateful and peaceful – even if it doesn’t jive with what your brain’s thinking.

It’s not what’s happening – it’s what we SAY to ourselves ABOUT what’s happening.

So – Irina, this experience is yours to be through.

If it makes you feel unhappy – then you may find out what makes you happier.

If nothing you can think of to do or not do makes you happy – then, that might be a great time to stop trying and just sit with what’s actually happening.

Good coaching can help with that. Sometimes it just helps to talk to someone who isn’t judging you or trying to figure out a way through your situation for you – but is just focused on your happiness.

AND sometimes – we can just “coach ourselves.”

My Modern Siren program will help you with both men – and with yourself.

Please keep in touch and let us know where you’re at…

Love, Rori

 

 

195 Comments

  1.  #1Labbit on December 29, 2014 at 10:21 am

    This is a fantastic post. Thank you Irina for asking your question and also thanks Rori for the answer you’ve put together so compassionately and straightforward-ly.

    I just re-watched Modern Siren last week and I totally agree that it helps to distill a lot of the ideas and feelings here. It all boils down to learning to trust yourself. When you trust yourself no decision you make is ever wrong, because you’ve done the best you can do in that moment based on what you know.

    Judgement often arises out of fear, and regarding relationships my judgement has often arisen out of fear that whatever I’m judging could also happen to me, to my relationship. As I trust myself more and more I’m learning that there is nothing to fear, that even though I can’t predict every moment or really any moment so long as I take care of myself I’m never alone, never lost, never without another opportunity to learn or grow or morph. It’s beautiful. I feel secure and loved within myself, and then that love appeared for me in the form of an amazing man who cherishes me.



  2.  #2April Rose on December 29, 2014 at 11:08 am

    I’m fascinated by

    “The whole experience of allowing and receiving may not be less scary-exciting or scary-different…”



  3.  #3Natalia on December 29, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Dear sirens,

    I’ve been reading the blog for a few months now, trying to learn as much as I can. I think now, after 6 months or so I’m finally understanding. I really love the way everyone can find support here. I feel ashamed about how I behaved in my own story, lots of leaning forward and chasing from my side…. I would really like to have your thoughts on this.

    I have very little experience with men. Since highschool, while my friends were already dating boys, I was sitting at home, alone reading or watching tv, I’m an introvert and a very private person. My crushes then were the “hot” guys every girl liked, but never something real, I always looked at relationships from the outside, like something very foreign to me (sorry if I don’t choose my words properly, my native language is Spanish).

    So, the guy from my story is S. I’m 28 and he is 32. We’ve known each other since 2007, we had the same group of friends. He always liked me since we first met and he did let me know, I kind of liked him then, but I was very afraid of letting it become a real thing. He is an extrovert, have looooots of friends (women friends too), very laid back person, he has a twitter account with almost 20,000 followers…so we are veeeryy different. He pursued me very intensely for over a year (flowers, chocolates, dates), telling me how much he liked me, how much he wanted to be my boyfriend, but I always said no. The main reason was that I was in love with someone else, a friend of mine who had a girlfriend, that was such a painful experience for me, 3 painful years being a close friend of the guy I was madly in love with. And there was S, always chasing me, always pursuing me, offering the world to me. Until I finally decided to give him a real chance. He made me feel adored. I now realize that I was being a siren without knowing it, just being me and receiving everything he was giving to me.

    At first the leaning back was very easy, I had no doubt that he cared and truth be told I didn’t care that much. To make the story short, I fell in love with him and that is when I started the overfunctioning, leaning forward, etc. The fact that he had so many women friends triggered me lots, specially his ex girlfriends. Also, he is the only man I’ve ever been intimate with, so he also allowed me to see this side of sexyness in me that I never experienced before.

    A year ago he broke up with me saying he wanted to be alone. Since then, I always wanted to get him back and got my self into a FWB situation, I feel very bad about it, I feel ashamed, none of my friends know we kept sleeping together. I was the prize, now I am a friend who sleeps with him once in a while. He said he couldn’t give me what I wanted, he just opened his own restaurant and gets home by 11 pm every day, the only day he is free is on Sunday, and his work is his priority, at least for now.

    For about a month, since the last time we slept together, the communication has slowed down, before we kept in touch every day or at least every other day, and now we just speak 2 or 3 times a week. I’ve been trying to lean back but it is hard to watch someone you love drift away and do nothing. Yesterday was his birthday and he didn’t ask me to see him or be there with him. I felt very sad, I wanted to spend his birthday with him but I didn’t say anything either. I cried and cried.

    I think he has some intimacy issues, he always said he never spoke to anyone about his deepest toughts and feelings, not ever. He has a very thick wall but I know he has a good heart. I also know he cares about me, but I always wonder if what he liked the most about me was the thrilled of the chase….

    Thank you sirens for reading my story! Best wishes to everyone!

    N



  4.  #4Tee on December 29, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    I hate that I can’t just start a thread, I feel like I’m trespassing. I received Rori’s newsletter the other day and it resonated so much within me that I was literally wiggling in my seat like Yes, yes this sounds like my story!

    It’s good to know that I’m not alone yet it still sucks. It was titled “If he’s unpredictable and difficult And what to do”

    That’s totally how my man is minus the affair part. I have Rori’s $20 book and I have been dating myself. There’s been small changes but it seems like as soon as Christmas came, he lost his mind. I get that he’s unhappy and stressed but he chooses to drink in order to cope and stay out late.

    I find myself slipping/slipped back into old patterns of screaming, cursing, threatening, only to be either ignored or fed lofty promises of change. This is not what I want or who I want to be.

    I do believe there’s a good guy in there somewhere or else why would we still be here with our son?

    I want to inspire change. I want to lure him, not chase him. I feel as though we are not a priority. I feel like he doesn’t get it or want to get it. I try to understand what he’s asking for underneath the yelling. I’ve read the 5 Languages of Love. He’s the Physical Touch and Acts of Service type. I’m the Words of Appreciation and Gifts type. We’re totally missing the mark.

    He wants me to cook and clean, apparently that’s how he receives love. I need him to let me know that what I’ve done is appreciated and Yes gifts are awesome! However, I’m not gonna be lying around in a nightie after cooking only so he can come home tipsy at 2am, that’s absurd!

    I prefer Rori’s approach yet I’m struggling not to send this man packing. I’m trying to hold on to something but my fingers feel slippery. I want to remain in the feminine.

    I get good results for a while when I distance myself from him physically and emotionally but they don’t seem to last long. His words are starting to have no value. Ok so he’s depressed, stressed, he’s not making the kind of money he wants, our place is too small blah blah blah I get that but drinking and being a jerk is not the answer. I’m seething inside…again. He was doing so well, then he lost it.

    I feel upset, confused and unimportant. I can’t wait until I can afford All the programs!



  5.  #5Tatia Dee on December 29, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Wow. OMG. I feel this article in my heart! So compelling. So real. OMG Rori. This was deep! I feel this.



  6.  #6Tatia Dee on December 29, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    Hi Tee:

    You’re doing great staying in touch with your feminine energy! The awareness of slipping back into your old patterns is awesome!

    I noticed that you did a lovely job with expressing your feelings here in your post. Have you practiced putting your words to feelings?

    Rori’s E-book takes you through speaking your feelings to him in Key #5.

    I feel that continuing to stay in your feminine energy (leaning back) along with speaking to him in feeling messages will really help.

    Love,

    Tatia Dee



  7.  #7Tee on December 29, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    Hey Tatia! Thanks for responding! I’ll go back to Key #5 and reread. Yes I am aware that I’m slipping back, I also need to be patient and forgiving of myself during this process. I’ve been taking long walks and listening to music if I feel my thoughts turning negative. I must have tons of bad thoughts since I’ve lost some weight lol

    Staying in the feminine is tough , and I’m also surrounded by women with masculine energy encouraging me to continuously let him have it! Lol I agree yet I don’t agree. It doesn’t feel right for me in that space, so I’m going to do what feels right.



  8.  #8Tee on December 29, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    Also, yeah I definitely need to practice my feeling words. I love words but I live mainly in my head, protecting my heart.



  9.  #9Dominique on December 29, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Tee -One important thing to remember is that for most men, the “mission” is means more than anything. And mission can look like anything though mostly it’s about work, career, feeling able to provide for his woman and family. When this is not at least mostly well in place, he will feel emasculated, not worthy, and it can easily come out in addictive behaviors as well as being difficult to get along with which might include a lot of wanting to be alone.

    Until this piece is “fixed”, things with him are not likely to change much. BUT you can take the edge of FOR YOU and maybe for him too by taking your focus off of him and putting it firmly back on you, filling yourself up, making yourself feel good no matter what this looks like. Sinking into your sensuality (by which I don’t mean sexuality though it might include this) is another good feeling place to go – FOR YOU.

    The more you can get to a good feeling place on your own, the more likely it will be that he perks up and feels at least a bit better.

    But you can’t be looking for this. This has to be about you taking care of you here.

    This may help you –

    http://sexandheart.com/how-much-can-you-expect-from-your-man-when-hes-hurting/

    xxoo



  10.  #10Tee on December 29, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    Thank you Dominique (my little sister’s name as well)

    I guess by nature, I’m a nurturer. I tend to worry, or overworry, when I love someone so that’s another shift I’m working on. Yes, he has been difficult lately with snide sarcastic remarks and attitude. He’s also been out a little more.

    He’s out now, no clue where he is but I can guess. I do feel abandoned at times, other times I’d rather he leave than pace the floor like a caged animal.

    Ugh! Ok focus on me, focus on me, focus me!



  11.  #11Victoria on December 30, 2014 at 12:27 am

    I really liked this post.
    I have dated at least two men simultaneously for most of my life.
    There have been times when I was unhappy with the double life, but more often than not, it has been ok.
    Also, my friends have been quite non-judgemental about this choice of mine (I know, flock of feather stick together :-)).
    But I think the original question that Irina had was not about whether it was ok to have a double life. It is more about, what to do when real life s*x is worse than what you imagined it would be, and what to do then the guy is withdrawing from you after that, because the s*x was mediocre…And I think this can happen and does happen quite often even without having the complications of double lives. I personally have almost always failed at resurrecting the relationship/initial attraction after such an episode. And I know it is not only unpleasant but also scary because you start to doubt your attractiveness, and you feminine skills. But then, over the years, I have learnt to accept that some things are just not meant to be, and it is not about my attractivess at all, it is about the other person and his own issues, and there is nothing for me to fix in him. Sigh.



  12.  #12Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 6:34 am

    I’m finding it really hard to find my feelings with this situation I’m in now. To be honest I just feel really p%$ssed off ! but that’s not a feeling is it? What is that feeling? I feel a little bit angry, a little bit agitated, a little bit antagonised, a little bit disappointed, a little bit frustrated (maybe more than a little bit) – with frustrated comes a little bit weepy – is there fear underneath all of that? Maybe if I look at what that fear may be … fear of shame, fear of humiliation, fear of not being ‘good enough’.

    So, there’s two things going on, both of which are intwined. One is that I’ve ended up in quite a small community of people and have found it difficult to integrate myself anywhere. I have found individuals who I like but no-one has been inviting me anywhere so I don’t feel included. I feel adrift, awkward and uncomfortable and like I’m hanging around and I don’t know if people want me there or not. Then, I feel weepy.

    And I feel inauthentic because I’m carrying this veneer of I’m so happy and breezy and comfortable and free when really I’m feeling excluded and friendless.

    The second thing, and this is hugely amplifying the first thing, is my almost relentless ability to find the most toxic man and want to be included in his company. This feels mortifying. Okay, so he makes me laugh – he makes me laugh then anyone else that I’ve found around yet, but do I feel cared for, cherished, adored or even wanted – no! I feel uncomfortable (a lot), humiliated as he rarely invites me to things, criticized (often) annnndddd compelled into all my sick behaviours that make me feel pathetic and weak. I majorly over-function – volunteering information he hasn’t asked for. Not staying away from where he goes constantly (I do quite well sometimes, other times I give in). Feeling messages are probably somewhat lacking – it’s all a horrible leany forward pattern of wanting to win his favour,whilst pretending to be all nonchalant – gross!

    He has done NOTHING to win my affections. He is just my pattern. A grumpy, unhappy man who pays me little attention yet makes me laugh – who I want to be let into his world. Why?????? So I can be grumpy and unhappy and piney and needy. I want to cry. I know,I’m not alone in feeling tired of my patterns of behaviour, tired of the work involved in trying to change them, tired of the crumb-taking humiliation.

    And, I see it. I’m in a bar earlier and the young bar men are all being flirty with me, and it feels playful and fun and nice, and a nice, gentle (probably) intelligent man comes over,offers me work contacts, emails me a book -and is it him I’m attracted to? NO – grrrrr I’m wondering about Mr not very happy. Cue – the desire to weep with frustration once again.

    I feel worried about NYE (tomorrow). I have no idea what to do or where to go.It seems there is only one party on the beach but without an invitation I feel foolish – I wouldn’t care if I didn’t have an audience for my non-invitation but I feel afraid of Mr not very happy being there with his friends and me, feeling like a loser-hanger on-er. I am going to meditate on this.Work out what feels best for me to do. It’s not easy to get to another town or anything like that – I would feel happy to take myself away from the scene entirely – book myself in somewhere nice and relax but it’s not possible. And I don’t want to sit in my room hearing the party happening without me.

    If anyone wants to reinforce the advice for me over and over and over again about what I should do with Mr not very happy but makes me laugh I would feel very happy and relieved to hear it.



  13.  #13Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 6:52 am

    I do love myself sirens 🙂 I just looked back on what I posted as my intentions this time last year. This is what I said:

    This time next year I’m going to be living in the sunshine by the sea and the money’s going to be flowing into my bank account easily without any efforting from me at all and i’m going to be all healthy and floaty on seafood and fruit and water and i’m not even going to be caring about any man i’m just going to be happy that i’m me and grateful to be feeling so relaxed and alive and happy and i’m going to feel very blessed and very loved because I am already very blessed and very loved and that is going to grow and grow…

    To be fair I’m not doing too badly apart from the caring about any man thing ha ha Still, I’m going to set this as my intention for tomorrow at least! And so it is!



  14.  #14Labbit on December 30, 2014 at 7:15 am

    Sophie,

    How about…just letting go? Letting go of beating yourself up for hours on end, of wasting so much mental energy on a situation you can’t control anyway, of trying to ‘do it right’, of any agendas you might be holding on to. Embrace the moment, the unknown. Let yourself be surprised. Stop telling yourself what you can and can’t have — you can have ANYTHING you want.

    You’ve given yourself this beautiful present of a trip to far-off lands, somewhere where you can get away from the story of your life and see everything with fresh eyes. And you’re not letting yourself enjoy it. You’re punishing yourself. Is that why you’re angry? Let go of all the baggage you’ve brought with you…none of it belongs where you are now.

    I think we all have a voice in our heads that makes ourselves feel like less if we show up in a public place alone. But it’s just a voice and it’s much meaner to us than any other person ever would be. I doubt people would even notice you arriving alone unless you bring attention to it. So just don’t do that. Turn away from that impulse and towards something that feels better. I doubt you’d be the only person there alone and if you drop your defenses and open yourself to intuition, I’m sure your soul will point you in the direction of other friendly souls who would happily welcome you into their group.

    This man you have a crush on sounds like someone you’d like to hire to help beat yourself up. (Figuratively of course, not literally.) Be kind to yourself. I don’t know any good that comes from being mean to yourself.

    Give yourself the gift of relaxing and enjoying the trip you’re on right now. You can’t do it wrong. When you look back on this time, do you want to feel sad about missed opportunities to explore or be out with people? Of course not. You want to look back on it with happy memories. So release yourself from your self-made prison and allow yourself the joy of creating those happy memories. 🙂



  15.  #15Indigo on December 30, 2014 at 7:48 am

    Sophie,

    I echo what Labbit is saying – just let it all go. The awkwardness of being around this guy you have a crush on, the need to either go to where he is or avoid him, feeling like you’re doing something wrong or making mistakes or missteps or whatever. Just picture it all in your hand in a tightly clenched fist, and just open your hand and watch it all float out into the atmosphere. Just smile at yourself and apologise to you for giving yourself a hard time, and just continue on your goddess way. So this guy makes you laugh – enjoy that! Forget about the rest. Forget completely about anything else about him. If he’s not asking you out he’s nothing to you anyway.

    And as for that party on the beach? If you want to go, GO. I used to feel awkward and funny about going to things by myself, but as I’ve learnt to be loving and gentle with myself I just don’t give a toss. I go and I smile and I treat myself to something delicious and I soak it all up – the music, the sights and the people.



  16.  #16Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 7:49 am

    Hi Labbitt

    Thank you for responding to me. It’s not that I mind going to places by myself. I don’t. It’s just I mind going to places by myself where this man is and then feeling awkward ‘cos I either go and talk to him ‘uninvited’ or I run the risk of hanging round feeling silly (and leany forwardy).

    I have been pointed towards lots of friendly souls, xmas day was a wonderful example and yes, there’s no reason why tomorrow will not be the same. In fact, I’ll set an intention that it is. However, that is one of the reasons why it feels so frustrating to feel compelled towards the one with whom I feel more ‘excited’ but less comfortable. He is my norm. I see it. I don’t want it.I will try accepting it for what it is.

    I don’t know about some of the other things. Yes, letting go, I am doing that as often as I can and returning myself to the present moment. I had a friend who kept parroting at me ‘the power of now’ 🙂 so that is in my head.I don’t feel like I’m angry at myself other than being so compelled towards self-destructive behaviours – I don’t know if that feels angry,more frustrated. And, wherever you go you take yourself with you 🙂 Life goes on. I know what feels good and what doesn’t. I know what feels safe and what doesn’t, it doesn’t mean I easily choose good and safe. I feel a mixed bag of emotions that swing between bliss and gratitude to fear and discomfort.

    It’s more a lifestyle choice than a trip ( I don’t really have a plan or intention to return home, or even know where home is really) so I have a constant bringing myself back into the present moment thing rather than there being a determinable end and so a determinable make the most of it. I am always reminding myself to come back into the present moment and, yes, allow myself to be surprised. Everything is very changeable and transient, but within that I like to find my safe places.

    And within that, I’m still just me. Living my life to the best of my abilities. Having these lessons show up (regardless of where I am). Doing my best to keep being aware.



  17.  #17Indigo on December 30, 2014 at 8:00 am

    Sophie,

    “It’s just I mind going to places by myself where this man is and then feeling awkward ‘cos I either go and talk to him ‘uninvited’ or I run the risk of hanging round feeling silly (and leany forwardy).”

    This is great news! Now you recognize your pattern – that you lean forward – you can consciously begin to stop doing that and experimenting with different things you can do instead.



  18.  #18Gear on December 30, 2014 at 8:01 am

    Rori, I love this post. I jotted down from the post in my journal ” there is huge difference between wanting, desiring and chasing, “trying to make happen” – and simply allowing, accepting and receiving…”

    So profound yet so simplifying. I took a deep breath in and let myself soak in that sentence. I feel so much clarity. Clarity is never in the mind. It’s in our well-tuned feeling.



  19.  #19Indigo on December 30, 2014 at 8:01 am

    By the way, I really believe that men come into our lives and across our paths in order to bring this stuff to the surface for us, to show us our destructive habits or what is not working and thus enable us to heal.



  20.  #20Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 8:04 am

    Thank you too Indigo – I asked for reinforcement and I’m getting it. I do tell myself these things eg he is nothing to me, and he will weed himself out. And I do my best in the moments to use Rori tools to keep myself focused but it doesn’t stop the uncomfortable feelings always so i’m going to have to just be in them. And I do turn away from it all as much as possible, and remain open to all the abundance there is around me, and I do a lot of self-love reinforcement and a lot of going about doing my own thing. It just feels like he is the epitomy of ‘my stuff’ – where I get stuck every time. I guess he is a great teacher for me (I just don’t want it ha ha ha) xxx



  21.  #21Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 8:12 am

    Yes Indigo 🙂 We are cross-messaging. I see it all, I practice it all to the best of my abilities. It is the feelings that frustrate me. I don’t want to keep practicing – (demanding impatient child). I want to love myself so much a man like that isn’t even in my periphery. And I want that now 🙂



  22.  #22Indigo on December 30, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Sophie,

    Re: the feelings. It may have a lot to do with being highly sensitive. I notice that even when I am in a really good place, such as at the moment, the feelings come and go all day long, like the shifting colours on a kaleidoscope. There’s a wealth of complex richness going on internally, it’s just an “isness”, really. I realize this may never change, the way I feel and experience and notice so much. It can be interesting, or different, or a challenge, but it’s really kind of beautiful in a way.



  23.  #23Sallythatgirl on December 30, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Sophie, I don’t post much but read it all and get so much from you ( your descriptive writing is poetry!) and I know Rori advocates not trying to get into the whys of our choices, for you choosing toxic men, feeling like an outcast, or an intrusion, etc….but looking at this has helped me quite a bit. My father was very unavailable, and I often choose men very similar: they could take me or leave me…now that I have the why I can recognize this and move away from it! Yay! I believe whatever your pattern comes from feels like home and we do our damnest to keep repeating said pattern as it is familiar. It sounds like you are very aware of this, and like Indigo says there’s a reason for every man… This is your chance to choose differently, and that’s amazing! I received this email just this am from Dominique: There is no “there” to get to. The joy is in the journey, every lovely step up, forwards, down, backwards, and sideways. ~ Dominique  <3   xxoo



  24.  #24Waterfall on December 30, 2014 at 8:52 am

    @ Sophie

    Hi, your dilemma sounds so familiar to me!

    NYE must be the most loaded night of the year for me… I dread it! I think I’ve truly enjoyed it once in the last 20 years or so.

    And I am never sure why…

    Personally, I just feel there is sooo much pressure. But, maybe more than that it’s a pivotal time for me of looking forward and looking back… I sometimes feel overwhelmed.

    I do silly and emotional things like yearn for my childhood and past lives, long to be in a grown up. I feel a huge mixture of emotions which ALL seem to be tossed up in the air…

    Anyway, why am I telling you this?! Hmm… I’m not sure really. Each year I tell myself to lean back, go with the flow, keep calm etc… But inside I feel too panicked to listen to my own advice haha!

    Me, I try and listen to the music, soak up the atmosphere, people watch (I invent little stories for them hehe),I check out what people are wearing, enjoy my food, enjoy my favourite cocktail…

    I have a friend who seems to live everyday like this so i use her as a role model. She always seems to hold her head up high and is fun to be around. She seems to have an attitude of enjoying herself and making herself happy regardless… I love her positive vibe… Its a vibe that says she can do things on her own and she is in control of her own life…



  25.  #25Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 8:52 am

    21 -there is definitely that Indigo – and the need for my safe spaces (not too hetic), good sleep and a balance between alone time and not alone time. This place is really ‘group’ orientated, a lot of all day drinking, or else being in a couple. I much prefer to hang out with individuals I feel comfortable with, or small groups of people in chilled out places (and then do the occasional party). There is an aspect of that with this man, I can have meaningful conversation with him (but i’m sure the same could be said for lots of others who don’t have the corresponding -and ever so attractive to me – dark side). And yes,my emotions change every five minutes 🙂



  26.  #26Waterfall on December 30, 2014 at 8:56 am

    @ Indigo

    Re: being sensitive. Amen to that sista!! 🙂



  27.  #27Liquid Light on December 30, 2014 at 8:58 am

    Sophie, I just want to say how courageous and adventurous you are! To travel to another country like that by yourself takes such a strong adventurous spirit. I did it myself years ago and I remember being terrified before I left. I felt alone and totally desperAte. I was in a major rut in my life and needed to do something radical. So I flew to Asia one way. It needs up being mostly a great experience though. Nothing really changed once I got back so I learned like you that you can’t run way from yourself!

    I also really admire your raw honesty and vulnerability here. You are ao in touch with your feelings and are so self aware. It’s amazing. I love the way you express yourself so pen and exposed and real. I wonder if you have ever tried cognitive therapy? You don’t have to go to a therapist, you can learn the principles on your own and practice them. It’s a powerful way to challenge and change negative patterns and habitual self defeating thoughts.

    But whatever you do I think you are on the right path. I really think that you are an incredible woman already – bold and fearless (though you may not think so you are) and have lots of emotional depth and sensitivity.

    Big hugs to you! Keep it up!

    LL



  28.  #28Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 9:04 am

    Ah SallyTG that feels lovely to hear. I always think I ramble on here – ironically I ghostwrite for a living, so I spend so much time writing with structure and correct grammar and spelling that I just spew on here and half the time I don’t know if my sentence structures even make any sense ha ha. My father was exactly the same…at least with this current crush I can see the unavailability straight off. I’ve just had several years of ‘missing’ the red flags or believing someone is available who is absolutely not. Now, it’s just having the strength to change those patterns when the force to go for what is familiar is so strong. I wish you all the blessings as you navigate similar waters 🙂 I had the Dominique message too – I love Dominique’s reminders.

    Waterfall – I completely understand. NYE feels so loaded to me also! Christmas too. I felt much better this year being away from all the xmas thing. Usually, I feel very unhappy and emotional and displaced. This year felt quite relaxed. Similarly, there is not soooo much charge this year being away…I don’t feel like I’m going to end up in my room crying…but I do enjoy celebrating it, or marking it in some way. I would like to share it with special people xxx



  29.  #29IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Some wise guy once said, “If we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this wored can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world.”



  30.  #30Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Wow Liquid Light – I feel humbled! Thank you very much – what kind and loving words. I lived in South America on two different occasions when I was in my twenties – it feels much less scary travelling this time. I do have self-confidence that I didn’t use to have. It was during the second trip to South America that I realised I really was trying to run away from myself and I would take me wherever I went so I needed a radical inside job ha ha I was a complete mess then and I remember actually having that epiphany standing on a street corner at a crossroads not knowing which way to go completely lost physically and metaphorically.

    I shall look up some CBT. I do a ton of affirmation work. I write them in lists almost daily and have Louise Hay on my ipod every day and I always go to sleep every night with something affirmative on You Tube. I have come a long way on the self loving thing in my head but self sabotage, still seems deeply rooted in many of my behaviours.

    Thank you so much for the compliments. I feel shy and bowled over now with the loving support you are all showing me. Thank you Thank you Thank you 🙂



  31.  #31Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 9:19 am

    @ Waterfall 25 – 🙂



  32.  #32IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:20 am

    Sophie, I feel so moved by your openness about how you have been feeling around other people lately. I went through something similar, and I so understand where you are coming from.

    But your focus seems to be on other people and what they may or may not be thinking about you. How about shifting your focus to your own feelings and experiences and experimenting with being vulnerable, as you have done so well here on the blog?

    Then, really work on trying to feel curious about thone people you feel so misunderstood & intimidated by. How are they similar and different from you? What can you learn from each other?

    Also, what can YOU do to make NYE feel good for you? What can your boy energy thunk up to make your inner girl feel good? Maybe plan a spontaneous little get together of your own? Feel surprised & curious about it, & don’t go in with any expectations.

    How would that feel?



  33.  #33Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 9:25 am

    @ sally – my spelling on here is also awful ha ha (I must be way too used to auto-correct). I really could read back what I write before I post it – or I wish there was an edit button like on fb 🙂



  34.  #34IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:28 am

    I recently realized how frequently I feel embarrassed and it feels kinda hilarious because I feel embarrassed of feeling embarrassed!

    Am I just feeling embarrassed of having feelings at all?

    Feels so curious.

    Had a group of about 3 guys from church kind of invite themselves over.

    They came over after a very bad-feeling, lonely day for me.

    They said it was to cheer me up since I’m home alone, & that’s exactly what it did.

    I went into full boy energy preparing for their arrival; shopping for groceries, cleaning, generally creating a warm & welcoming atmosphere



  35.  #35IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:35 am

    They are very young, like little brothers to me. I fed them, provided games, and found myself giving them all kinds of dating advice, which thinking back on it feels weird and hypocritical of me.

    It was mostly, if you want to date more than one girl just be open & honest about it.

    Don’t be a girl’s friend if you have feelings for her, or she will likely take you for granted.

    Give her enough time and space to let her miss you, but always be warm and genuine should you run into her.

    Be creative and frugal & honest.

    I feel giggly thinking about all the advice I gave them



  36.  #36IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:37 am

    They seemed to think it was good advice.



  37.  #37IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:42 am

    I have been reading young adult “coming-of-age” novels.

    It felt scary to somewhat related to Holden in the “The Catcher in the Rye.”

    Like him, I highly value childhood and innocence and feel somewhat disillusioned by human nature, whIle sometimes turning a blind eye to my own hypocrisy. I prematurely run away from relationships, so much so that I feel as though I have missed out.

    & it’s embarrassing because I’m a 30 year old woman, not a seventeen year old boy.



  38.  #38IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:45 am

    And I feel that in some ways I know so much on theoretical & intellectual levels, but no nothing on practical & experiential levels.

    & I feel angry when more experienced men laugh at my inexperience.



  39.  #39IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:48 am

    I feel hopeful though. I did practice feeling messages quite a bit. & they just let me tal about my past and my tendency to only really care about unavailable men and how cheap I made myself and how I should have gotten my energy out of there.



  40.  #40Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Hi Iamhis

    I oscillate between the two – I monitor everything via how I comfortable I feel and I don’t feel comfortable if I’m not overtly invited to places. I haven’t been making up reasons why I’m not being invited so I haven’t been doing too much other people’s thinking (I don’t think 🙂 – I just haven’t known. I suppose with that man I have been ‘caring’ what he thinks about me (without knowing what he thinks about me) and that brings out the people pleasing, overfunctioner part of me that I don’t like so much. I am oscillating too, with him, between being vulnerable and being defended. Everything happens at such a fast pace (doesn’t it?) so I suddenly realise I’ve said or done a shut down thing rather than an authentic open up thing. I don’t know, I’m grappling in the dark, almost constantly both with what my feelings are, and when it is and is not appropriate to share them, and then in what way!

    I have absolutely been trying to come up with a good NYE plan for myself 🙂 I haven’t found the answer yet.I will find something that feels okay to me I hope …or I won’t and then it will be over and everything will return to normal.

    I’m not sure if I feel misunderstood -maybe slightly intimidated but only because I don’t feel included ‘in a group’ yet. I sit around and chat to new people all the time. I don’t struggle making conversation, but in this place I haven’t found ‘my people’ yet 🙂 the one’s that stick,though I’ve begun to be accepted by some of the locals who even call me sister and have jokes and play with me. That feels nice. It’s having a social circle I’m missing – like if people go to quiz night it would feel good to be included, NYE It’d feel good to be included, have people to do to dinner with,that would feel nice. I’m sure I have chatted to enough people now that if I go to this party tomorrow night I’ll have people to talk to…I just have to feel my way through whether the ‘man’ is a trigger I want to avoid or not.



  41.  #41Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 10:00 am

    36 🙂 Imahis – I LOVE catcher in the Rye – my dad always said that he thought that would be the perfect job for me – doesn’t he fantasise about standing in a field or something making sure children don’t fall off the edge?

    37 – I relate to this too – I recently wrote something on here about not feeling like I know how to do life very well. Earlier I was reading back through some of my posts from this time last year and I felt astonished at my own innocence. I seem to have this bizarre innocence when it comes to other people – some enduring belief in their good intentions whereas it may be completely obvious to someone else that there is an agenda



  42.  #42IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Everything happens at such a fast pace (doesn’t it?)

    yes, yes, yes!

    I feel bad if I misunderstood you at first, but I’m seriously feeling so connected to everything you’re saying on here.

    It’s funny because Foreign Guy is foreign, obviously. In a culture that he doesn’t seem to be quite integrated into yet.

    and I LOVE that about him, because I suppose I feel the same way. Somewhat detached from my American culture (the only one I’ve known.) It just feels so shallow and silly to me sometimes.



  43.  #43IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:17 am

    you know, American culture ISN’T the only culture I’ve known.

    I’ve also known this extremely odd “Christian culture” which is very different from American culture, I suppose.

    Foreign Guy and I have that in common.

    I was just thinking about “my one date wonders” this summer.

    Two of them were foreign. One of them had a theory that “people suck.” The other was a “Christian” who seemed hypocritical.

    It feels good to just kind of go back and analyze and learn from my messengers…



  44.  #44IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:18 am

    “I am a visitor here, I am not permanent. The only thing keeping me dry is where I am.” – the Postal Service



  45.  #45IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:20 am

    It feels so curious, what I was writing on here about recently.

    My insecurities about my health and about attracting unhealthy men.

    I met the sweetest guy online. We haven’t met in person yet, but we have skyped, and I found his speech and voice to be a big turn off, but his overall demeanor and attitude about life felt incredibly refreshing.

    You see, he has Cerebral Palsy.



  46.  #46IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Also, recently have pulled in men with autism and Asperger’s and I love them for their lack of pretense and pure, innocent honesty.



  47.  #47IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:27 am

    But I don’t know if I REALLY want them…



  48.  #48IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Suddenly bursted into tears. Watching a show, I don’t know? To escape? To observe? To connect with fictional characters in hopes it would help me better connect with people in my real life?

    and a scene where the man gives his wife he is divorcing the house, the home for her and the kids to live in, rather than selling it and splitting the money 50/50 as she fairly suggests, because it’s their “home.”

    and their in an elevator, and they are both so sad, she hiding it less well and she starts crying and reaches for his hand, and they hold hands.

    and I remembered just recently seeing a picture of “the guy who brought me here.” and for the first time, I felt so happy for him. He looked happy. She gave him a son. He always wanted a son. and I didn’t feel bitter or angry or sad, I just felt happy for him, because, I don’t know, he looked like HIMSELF again for once.

    I want to find MYSELF again. Where’s my son? Where’s my daughter? Where’s my husband?



  49.  #49Sophie on December 30, 2014 at 10:56 am

    (((iamhis))) I want to find myself again – that sounds like a powerful intention to me 🙂 I have to sleep – it’s late late here but they’ve decided to start new years early. I feel like i’m at a festival it’s so noisy.Ipod meditations for me I think.I have work deadline tomorrow too – not feeling happy – ‘power of now’ – tomorrow I’ll get it done – all will be well xxx



  50.  #50IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 11:02 am

    You know it’s funny, what was so infuriating was the lack of communication, how lost I felt in that old energy field of ours, but I held part of that responsibility, you know?

    I was so angry at his withholding of information and lack of communication, and I was guilty of the same thing.

    but he’s happy now and I’m…I’m just…still searching.

    What am I going to search and analyze everything instead of EXPERIENCING it?

    I don’t want to do that.

    and yet, I feel like I don’t know how to EXPERIENCE.



  51.  #51IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 11:04 am

    I made them get off of their stupid phones and be in the moment.

    I want to BE IN THE MOMENT.

    and yet sometimes anger and eye contact are so difficult.



  52.  #52Labbit on December 30, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    A question has been lingering on my mind all day today. As I’m getting better and more confident in leaning back, the other half of the equation still baffles me sometime. What do you ladies do to settle into being an invitation to your men, or all men, or the world?

    I find that when I’m upset about something (or I think I’m upset about something), I can lean back but I feel closed down. Sometimes I feel tense from the daily grind and want to relax but find it challenging. I do Rori’s tool of breathing in, expanding each part of myself and opening, but I’m wondering if there are other ways to relax into that inviting vibe quickly.



  53.  #53Natalia on December 30, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Dear Sirens,

    I posted a long comment telling you my story but is awaiting moderation. Now I have another question and would really like having your thoughts on this matter. My ex has suffered the lost of one of the members of his family. Knowing him, he is going to shut down everybody and mourn alone on his cave. My question is, how do you handle this situation without leaning forward or inteferring on the stages of his loss? Thank you, I really love the support everyone gives here!

    Love, N



  54.  #54Moon on December 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Dear Sirens,

    I posted a long comment telling you my story but is awaiting moderation. Now I have another question and would really like having your thoughts on this matter. My ex has suffered the lost of one of the members of his family. Knowing him, he is going to shut down everybody and mourn alone on his cave. My question is, how do you handle this situation without leaning forward or inteferring on the stages of his loss? Thank you, I really love the support everyone gives here!

    Love,

    M



  55.  #55Violet on December 30, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    This is in reference to @ 6: Tee: ”women with masculine energy”
    I hadn’t heard this terminology before, yet it seems to fit my personality.

    New subject: I’m feeling at odds right now. One part of me wants to ring in the new year at a place that features live bands and music to dance to.
    Another part of me feels like I’m pushing myself.. creating unrealistic expectations.
    I’ve come to understand my feelings between allowing something to come about naturally and forcing something to happen. I feel like I owe it to myself to do something for me.
    The other choice is to stay at home and relax. That would also be doing something for me and it’s definitely more safe.

    I also feel discouragement because I haven’t been asked on a bone fide date in quite some time. I’m trying not to voice this because it would perpetuate negativity.

    I feel like I need encouragement. I’d like to find and utilize methods to give myself encouragement. It helps to read the Bible and inspirational stories. It helps to journal. It helps to pray. Do any of you ladies utilize proven methods to give yourself encouragement?



  56.  #56prplpsn28 on December 30, 2014 at 6:55 pm

    🙂



  57.  #57Andrea on December 30, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    How do you have access to your own previous posts?



  58.  #58IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Trying a little experiment. I always lean back as far as iniating contact, at least. I know I may not always be energetically, but I at least resist calling and texting.

    I was feeling just friends and I don’t want to do this with CP. But I can tell he’s an amazing guy. I feel like I can learn from him. All I said was hi.

    & he seemed surprised & said it’s been three days.



  59.  #59IamHis on December 30, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    This is turning out amazing, actually!



  60.  #60Indigo on December 30, 2014 at 10:32 pm

    Labbit 51,

    I have the same question. Leaning back and asking what I do and don’t want seems like the easy part sometimes. But I sometimes worry about closing down my heart. As I’ve mentioned on here before, I’m reserved and introverted, so backing away from people is not usually a challenge for me, and yet how do I stay receptive? I suppose communicating our feelings is what connects us to other people, and to men. Sometimes I like to picture myself leaning back but with my heart wide open, like an unzippered purse. I like to picture the man I want, and the things I’d want a man to do, and how easy it would be to melt in these situations. One way I manage to stay open to the world is to continually visualize what I want and believe that it will come to me, and in the meantime I am safe. Nothing and no one can derail me, so I am free to explore and experience the world, knowing that what is meant to be, will be.



  61.  #61Sophie on December 31, 2014 at 1:15 am

    Andrea – I don’t know if there’s an easier way but I just click on the posts and search for my name – my last year’s intentions one was easy to find cos it was obviously around december or jan! xx



  62.  #62Labbit on December 31, 2014 at 3:52 am

    57 Indigo — Mmm yes great points. You are so right that sharing our emotions is what connects us…and practicing as though what I want is already coming towards me. Thank you for this.

    TenderCD and I had a great skiing trip with his family last week for Christmas. I mean, incredible. We had one little tiff on the drive out but otherwise it was all smooth sailing. There was a nice balance of couple time for me and him, family time, and even some alone time where we could each decompress completely. I felt open and relaxed, connected to my heart with it unzipped the entire trip. My face started to hurt at times from smiling so much.

    We’re back in our home city now and have spent the last couple of days apart, though we’ll be together again today and tonight celebrating New Years with my family at a party. TenderCD has been so thoughtful and sweet…he knows I like to primp in a major way before big dates so he set up a hair appt and a makeup appt for me at my favorite salons. And I’m so glad he did because by the time I even thought about it I’m sure they were both totally booked with appointments!

    And yet here I am up wayyyy too early feeling worried. Trying to sink into these feelings so I can unblock whatever’s going on around my heart. The intimacy…it’s scary for me. Letting TenderCD in more, sharing my feelings openly, it scares the ever-loving daylights out of me. I’m scared right now of how powerful it feels when we connect, how powerful I FEEL when I draw him in like a true Siren and he’s compelled to love me, and being afraid of not being able to maintain that power. I feel like I need to use all my concentration to keep him connected to me…even though I know the opposite is true, the more relaxed and comfortable in my skin I am the closer he gets, all on his own. While I’m with him physically it’s getting easier slowly to open up and let him in but when we’re apart my brain, those nasty gremlin voices are attacking me right now about all the things I did wrong, said wrong, and replaying over and over any moment where I felt even a bit of distance from him.

    I try not to think about him because I worry I’m sending too much energy his way if I do…but then that freaks me out because of course then he’s all I can think about for a minute or two…I have to admit I’m not feeling much of a Prize in these moments. The fear is so much less than it used to be and I’m soothing myself as best I can right now. I’m not looking to TenderCD to validate me or fill me up the way I would have in the past. Sometimes I just want to pull away, back into myself and put on my armor so he can’t see how powerful and yet not powerful I feel. I feel my rock, I know I do fine taking care of myself and I’ll be OK no matter what. But I don’t like this fear, these shakes, they are uncomfortable and not the head space I want to be in. I want to feel clear, quiet in my mind so I can peacefully settle down into my heart.

    Hoping there is a long period of calm coming after this storm. For now, just riding the waves of emotion…rough seas right now…



  63.  #63Azure Blu on December 31, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Labbit #59
    Darling, warm, beautiful Siren…
    I found this in my archives…
    Perhaps it may help…

    By Victoria Gallagher
    Begin to visualize yourself walking on a sandy beach along a beautiful Oceanside.
    It is a warm and clear day.
    The sand feels like silk under your feet.
    The air all around you feels refreshing and pure.
    There is an occasional quiet breeze.
    The atmosphere is serene and radiant.
    The warmth of the sun on your face enhances your inner glow.
    You have a sense of gratitude about being in this special place.
    There is something extraordinary about this day. Everything is so still and perfect.
    The sky is the most gorgeous shade of blue you’ve ever seen,
    accented with fluffy white clouds.
    You settle on a place to sit for a few moments
    on the sand so you can receive all of the magnificence that is available here.
    Listen to the sound of the ocean.
    Notice there is a rhythmic motion
    that brings you a feeling of peace and calm.
    Notice the exquisite turquoise shade of the water.
    You see beauty everywhere you focus your awareness.
    You feel completely safe
    and you are.
    Your body relaxes more deeply.
    Feel yourself melt into the sand.
    Recognize your connection to all that is surrounding you.
    Your body is being re-energized.
    A healing energy absorbs any tension from your body
    and you feel light.
    You feel prepared to experience something wonderful.
    A sense of pleasant anticipation begins to envelop you.



  64.  #64Azure Blu on December 31, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Andrea… #54
    I agree with Sophie,
    The only way I know is to scroll through the months
    and look for my name…



  65.  #65Azure Blu on December 31, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Darling Sirens,
    my NYE plans are shaping up…
    I am invited over to one of my dear friends open house tonight… She and her husband have a lovely log house in the country with an AMAZING
    Man Cave
    I thought about who I wanted to be my date…
    all my CDs are too new… it would not be as relaxing as I would like…
    I decided to invite Spirit… we talked on Mon… he has a bad cold… He’d love to come and He’d let me know..
    Today he still isn’t feeling well… i used feeling messages about how exciting and good it would feel to have him with me…
    I practiced a little cagoaling (which I suck at)
    and He might just take some dayquil and come!!!
    Yay!!!
    i am very impressed with how I am taking care of ME
    On NYE…
    I don’t want to take advantage of Spirit…
    Even though I know I have been seeing and talking to him Less and less…(it’s been 2 weeks since we’ve been together)

    and I will continue to have less and less contact…
    i even have a “It would feel good to take a break”
    speech ready..
    For tonight I will have fun (we always have sooo much fun together)…
    Actually I am offering him exactly what he is offering me… a Friendship with a few kisses and huggs…
    So it is winding down…
    Just like Rori’s tools predict…
    and spend time with my friends and
    bring in the Glorious NEW YEAR!!
    I wish EVERYONE on Siren Island
    a wonderful and happy Self loving
    New Year!!!



  66.  #66Dominique on December 31, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    Indigo – 57 – This isn’t exactly what you were talking about, yet in a way it is the same. Maybe this will help with the keeping your heart open while leaning back.

    http://sexandheart.com/how-to-feel-a-bad-feeling-feeling-and-keep-your-heart-open/

    xxoo



  67.  #67Liquid Light on December 31, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    Azure 62, that sounds great! Happy New Year to you too, and to all the sirens here: Happy New Year ladies!

    Wishing everyone the best in luck and love in 2015!!!



  68.  #68Andrea on December 31, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Oh thanks Sophie and Azure, I had this fantasy that you could find your own little page on here of all the posts you’d ever done. Wouldn’t that be fun… and educational. : )

    And… ugh! A group of men, all up in arms about something that has to do with their company have taken up post right next to my desk and they are cussing.
    Ugh. I know they are stressed. I know they are used to just being around men on this work crew. But right now… I AM HERE!!
    I’m really trying hard to gather my courage up to say something. I just feel icky and sensitive to the language. And (just now) I’m feeling stupid and too sensitive and how dare I expect these men to sensor themselves. And how can I say anything now that I’ve let it just go on this far?
    And I don’t want them to feel unwelcomed or that they need to move their conversation elsewhere, I just would like them to be sensitive to my needs.
    Is that fair to ask that in my workplace??

    I’ve just put in a couple of trays of chocolate chip cookies to make our lobby smell great and feel more welcoming. And I’m just feeling like.. crap!! I might need to actually say something to them. Darn it!!

    I don’t want to be seen as “high maintenance” or … I don’t know… “asking too much of them?” Ugh. Is this a lesson for me? I can gush like a pro when I’m happy with a man, but when it comes to asking for something… or when it comes to admitting.. I don’t feel good right now… I need help!!!!!



  69.  #69Andrea on December 31, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    OMG!! I’m literally shaking right now.

    I just leaned over my desk and I said, “Hi Guys.. do you smell the cookies?”
    They all kind of looked at me like they didn’t realize that I had been there. Then they all acknowledged that it was really starting to smell good in the lobby.

    Then I said.. “Uhmm I feel really awkward, and I understand that you all are stressed right now and I can hear your frustration, but I feel just icky (and yes, good god.. I said “icky”) being around all the cussing.”

    Then they all were like… oh my goodness, oh my gosh, of course.. oh my yes, we don’t need to sit here and discuss this.

    Then I said.. (apologetically of course.. argh) “I know you guys are used to working around guys out on the yard. I know you’re not used to being around me….”

    I don’t know.. etc etc..
    At least it’s quiet in here now. God that was brutal. I’m still shaking. But the men are all either dispersed or quietly talking about other things. phew..

    Why oh Why is that so hard to do?? Why don’t I have the right to ask for what I feel I need?

    Thank you Rori for the feeling messages. I think that is what made the whole situation more peaceful and allowed them to accept it better. I just really need more practice stating.. “I feel… I don’t want… I do want…” And then, “Thank you.”



  70.  #70Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Tee,

    RE: #3 – Hey, I’m Brenda, and I really enjoyed your post…not because you are struggling in your relationship, but because you are a terrific writer! I especially loved this piece:

    “I prefer Rori’s approach yet I’m struggling not to send this man packing. I’m trying to hold on to something but my fingers feel slippery.”

    Your fingers feeling slippery created a fantastic word picture! And this is a perfect feeling message, the kind of thing that will be very powerful in communicating with your man!

    Do I understand correctly that he is a man who you live with? If not, what is the status of your relationship? When a man wants me to cook dinner, I will do it occasionally. But if I sense an attitude of him trying to make me a servant, as if that is my function in life, besides from being a hole in his bed, then I learned from Rori to say something like, “I feel tired. It would feel so nice to be wined and dined! What do you think?”

    or

    “I don’t feel like cooking tonight. There are some frozen dinners in the freezer and stuff to make sandwiches in the frig.”

    Something like that. When I treat me with high regard, picturing myself as a queen in my mind, it challenges him to step up and treat me likewise. If I tolerate being treated like his personal servant, he will do so without a thought.

    In my current relationship, I find a balance. Some nights I will ask him, “Would you like this or that? I’m going to cook something.” Then he has a choice and his third choice is to say no thanks, I’m not hungry. Other nights, I just don’t offer. Once in a while he cooks for me.

    Are you in a committed relationship? If so, that is what Rori calls a trap, because you are pretty much obligated to either go with his time table or break up. What Rori recommends is circular dating, filling your social schedule with 3-5 men at a time, and let them compete for your love. That way if he isn’t stepping up, you have other options. And if he wants to stay in your life, it will become clear to him as a matter of course that if he doesn’t step up, he is going to lose you. There is power in loss!

    As for yelling and swearing, I refuse to relinquish my crown as the Queen of Yelling and Swearing! 🙂 Seriously, though, the path I have found that is far more effective AND helps me keep my sanity is the simple, very powerful walk out! When I feel angry and/or when I am being verbally abused, I learned from Rori to say, “This feels horrible! I don’t want to be abused.” Then I walk out and drive away for a few hours. The component of that statement is:

    I FEEL _____.

    I WANT or I DON’T WANT or I LIKE or I DON’T LIKE _____.

    This approach honors myself as a woman who is significant, whose thoughts and feelings MATTER and are to be taken into account!!! And at the same time it sidesteps blaming. That way I am not saying, “You always stay out until 2 am!” or “You treat me like shit!” Instead, I am telling how the poor treatment makes ME FEEL. And my feelings matter. And I have a right to express my feelings.

    If he responds by becoming more sensitive to my needs, wants, and feelings, great! If not, I would phase him out and move on.

    I know your frustration with wanting to have all of Rori’s tools on your tool belt all at once…I have been there. What I have found is that to become my best self, to become a desireable, sought after woman, I must do the work of taking the time to work through my inner stuff.

    There is a lot of free stuff on Rori’s blogs and newsletters, and the women here are a tremendous support! I really miss this place, and I was a learner here for about 5 years. I am not where I want to be, but thank God, I am not where I used to be. I only wish I had the time to come here as often as I used to. If you can’t afford all her programs right now, take advantage of this blog, even tho it takes more time to locate stuff and read stuff. I would use a word search to find specific topics.

    When I feel insignificant and unheard and uncared for, I take time to get alone and quiet, and I close my eyes. I go deep inside and get in touch with my feelings. What is my heart telling me? What are my shoulders telling me? What is my vagina telling me? What is my belly telling me? What is that pain I feel over my right ribs? Why is my belly tight and anxious tonight?

    Then I breathe in through my vagina, relaxing as I release the air through my nose and mouth, feeling shimmering femininity flowing down over my breasts…

    I wish you the best…be patient with yourself, and love yourself above all.



  71.  #71Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Hello Violet!

    You asked for any confirmed ways of encouraging yourself…

    What has been really effective for me is listening to sermons on youtube or Sirius radio by Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer! Sometimes I also listen to the Bible, either through YouVersion on my smart phone or www dot Bible Gateway dot com on the internet. Rori’s Modern Siren program or any of them for that matter are also very encouraging.



  72.  #72Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    Hi Andrea!

    #65-66 – Congratulations!!! You stepped out of your comfort zone and you rocked the boat! Good job! The more you venture into the scary world of facing rejection, the easier it will become, until it is a part of your comfort zone…and the language will flow more comfortably, too.

    Here is a little of my story…I was raised in a family with way too much intimidation. Flashes of anger effectively shut me up! To the point where I entered adulthood not daring to speak my heart or mind. What was even worse is that I had no idea who I was. I had 20 some years of conditioning that my words didn’t matter, and therefore I didn’t matter.

    At around that time, I was a waitress at Pizza Hut. One night the cooks were talking after closing and one said, “Damn it!” I wasn’t used to hearing such language because I was very naïve and sheltered, and I looked down with my cheeks red.

    One of them saw me and said, “I’m sorry, we shouldn’t be swearing in front of you.” I said, “It’s all right, I’m getting used to it.”

    He said, “No, it’s NOT all right. You shouldn’t have to get used to it. WE should get used to not swearing around YOU.”

    I felt respected and honored, and here it is over 30 years later, and obviously that meant a lot to me to still recall it so clearly.

    Yes, yes, YES! You have every right to speak your mind and heart! That doesn’t mean everyone is going to like it, but for myself, I have made it my personal challenge to remain strong and confident in the face of anger and intimidation and rejection! My message to the world these days is…

    I FEEEEEEELLL!!! AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO FEEEEL!

    For me, it’s a constant challenge to state my feelings respectfully and wisely, leaning heavily on Rori’s tools. Here are some choices on how you could say it:

    Hey, cowboys! I know it’s a pretty charged moment, and I just want you to know I feel so honored and respected as a lady when men keep their language clean in my presence. Ya know what I mean?

    Ewww, that feels awful to hear! I don’t want to hear swearing!

    Hey, if you don’t mind, I would feel so much better if we could keep the language clean. What do you think?

    Hey, let’s make a deal! You keep your language clean, and I’ll treat you all to some warm chocolate chip cookies! What do you think?

    Ooh! My virgin ears! Paleeese, gentlemen!?

    Ouch! My ears hurt! Ya know what I mean?



  73.  #73Liquid Light on December 31, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Andrea, wow, that was so brave of you to do that. That would be very hard for me as well, I bet most women would have a hard time standing up to those men like that. How intimidating! I really think it took such courage to speak up for yourself in this very uncomfortable situation – bravo to you, way to start the New Year off right!

    Big hugs, girl!

    LL



  74.  #74Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    Andrea,

    Here’s one more gem that I originally heard in a sermon by Winkey Pratney, LOL…

    “Damn it!”

    “Do you really think He will?”

    Haha, they do a double take on that one! Or, “Je/sus Ch/rist!”

    “Oh, you talk to Him too? Matter of fact, I was just talking to Him about you!” LOL!



  75.  #75Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    Andrea,

    More…by the way, YOUR feeling message was fantastic!

    “Then I said.. “Uhmm I feel really awkward, and I understand that you all are stressed right now and I can hear your frustration, but I feel just icky (and yes, good god.. I said “icky”) being around all the cussing.”

    I was just offering some more ways it could be handled, perhaps for future reminders and hopefully to be of some support in growing more comfortable with expressing yourself. All in all, the more positively, gently, and feelingly it can be said, the more effective.

    I am so good on paper, and watch! Put me in a real life situation with a real person and I mess up way too fast! Grrr! I am working to heal this.



  76.  #76Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    I have come to see clearly how many people unconsciously try to control others with their anger. The unspoken message is, “I am angry, so you better do what I want!” In my childhood, my unspoken message was, “I’ll do anything you say, just don’t yell at me!”

    After I entered adulthood so emotionally damaged, I gradually learned to stand my ground assertively, right in the face of rage. Rori’s tools have propelled me lightyears ahead in my healing and relational skills!!! In my strong moments, when anger is unleashed on me, I can calmly say, “I can tell you are angry right now. That feels awful!”

    Sometimes just having their anger acknowledged will calm some people down. My biggest remaining issue is being interrupted, since it was such a major part of my childhood damage. When I am interrupted, I can go from calm to bit/ch in 0 seconds! If anyone has a good word of advice on how they handle interruption, and especially on how they channel their anger at that moment, it would be tremendously helpful.

    Inside, the wounded little girl is screaming, “Listen to me!” She remained in silence growing up, and it took her decades to find out who she was. Now she won’t be trampled into intimidated silence. But that anger is huge inside still! Any input for me?



  77.  #77Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Everyone is at New Year’s Eve parties now, and I am home in bed in my nightgown writing on Rori’s blog. I want to pity myself, yet I know if I made a few calls, I could be out, too. I love this place tho. How I miss it. Now it feels like a luxury to relax and process here on my favoritist blog! Thanks, Rori!



  78.  #78Tee on December 31, 2014 at 4:39 pm

    Why aren’t my posts showing? ??



  79.  #79Tee on December 31, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Why aren’t my posts showing?



  80.  #80Tee on December 31, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    My Dear Brenda, thank you for your kind words. I’ve been told I’m a great writer yet I don’t indulge much. Seems easiest to do when I’m upset but I don’t want that to be the only motivation behind the writing 🙂

    Yes we live together and we are in a committed relationship. We’ve known each other for over 20 years, however, I’m beginning to suspect that the problem is our personalities/ways of showing and/or receiving love.

    He’s an extrovert (with a touch of adhd I believe)
    I’m an introvert.
    He lives in a very physical world, he’s always moving, doing, touching,etc
    My world is very mental, reading, watching, thinking, observing, etc.
    He does love to cook and clean, which of course means that it’s something that I don’t excel at which aggravates him. I believe he views my lack of these things as a lack of love. I’ve never flat out asked him if this were true but whenever we enter into an argument he always brings this up. How he’d like to come home to a clean house with a cooked meal. He harps on these things as though I’ve never cooked a meal for him or like I’ve never swept a floor or washed a dish!

    So I take this to mean these things are very important to him. I don’t have (apparently) enough enthusiasm in this area and it’s an issue for him. Other issues are, it appears he feels like I prefer my alone-ness to his company.

    Example, when I cook or clean, I prefer to be alone. I tend to be distracted by the presence of others. When I’m alone, I get to listen to music, zone out, etc. It makes the process faster if not somehow more enjoyable.

    He seems to prefer to work as a team, us helping each other while bonding over the task itself.
    I’ve tried to explain but I don’t know that he hears me and possibly feels offended.

    Yes it is a process and I do need to be kind to myself along the way. Visit here more often, I feel good here. I feel validated that I’m on the right path instead of being made to feel weak or like a pushover because I’m not raging all over the place.

    The message I keep getting is that I need to lean back, use feeling messages, stay in the feminine and CD. I have been dating myself recently, it’s almost fun lol

    Its been so long since I’ve done for myself. I’ve been so busy managing and monitoring my SO that to be sorta on my own feels a little awkward. I keep looking for someone else to manage but then I release that thought and I push forward.

    I hope that this message gets through, I’ve been having trouble posting lately. Thank you so much Brenda! Happy NYE 🙂



  81.  #81Dixie on December 31, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    Just wanted to wish everyone here all the very, very best for 2015. Your open sharing, your stories, your advice have made me feel so much stronger and so excited about how things will unfold this year. No more fear, just readiness and truth-telling 🙂

    D. and I finally met yesterday after a long time, and it felt just so much better than the last time, all closed off and stilted months ago. It was clear that we could both feel this energy, just a warm pull, but guess what ladies? I realized IT WASN’T ENOUGH! I could jump with this realization! Oh, I do love him do much, and feel inspired by him, and I felt closer to him yesterday than in ages. But, I want that creative synergy back, that feeling of being a creative team who stayed up late working side by side, sharing our work, bouncing ideas of eachother, and that wonderful trust that came with that. Yesterday was wonderful, and I’m so grateful for those good feelings, but later on, I could feel this knowing inside, that there needs to be, for me, more of what we used to have. I love feeling like part of a team, and more communication is what would make this feel even better.

    Yesterday, I felt one giant step forward in terms of what feels authentically good. Thank you ladies for being amazing examples of being authentic and aware and true women with grace.



  82.  #82Beloved on December 31, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    (((Radlove))) Hey there!!! Happy new year to you!

    I, am going to see some local live music at a cafe that is like a second home to me. All by myself, and I feel so incredibly happy about that. I have a whole entire crowd of special someones to share my night with, and don’t need to feel bound to or latched on to any just one, I can be a dragonfly, flitting about, doing as I d@mned well please.

    May you all have a lovely evening, and a happy new year!



  83.  #83Andrea on December 31, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    hahah… RadLove!! I am in stitches over your feeling messages for me. I definitely like the cowboy one and that is definitely my normal flirtatious self. I forgot to RELAX! I was so rattled by being sensitive to it.

    Another woman in the lobby opened up to me afterward and she told me that she was feeling invisible and disregarded. We talked about it a bit and I told her
    Wow.. those are great feeling words. That’s exactly what I was feeling as well.

    Radlove, thank you so much for all of your posts. They are all so helpful. I’m amazed at how similar our pasts are when it comes to the overlying message being… just shut up and everything will be okay.

    I like what you said about anger being a ploy for power and control. My co-worker was all grumpy and angry this evening and I almost asked him, “What are you so angry about?”
    But then, I really didn’t want to know. In honesty I just wanted him to not be in my presence with all his negative stuff. And it was like he was giving off this: I’m angry so you need to get out of my way or bend to my will.

    Luckily he got to leave early so I’m here alone. (with my feelings) hah.

    And, same here. Every one is out partying but I’m at work til eleven. But, I’m feeling at peace now.

    Thank you LL for your feedback. I can’t believe how rattled I got, but I do feel better and when I have time to reflect again, I’ll probably feel triumphant.



  84.  #84prplpsn28 on December 31, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    I hate men! I hate new years.



  85.  #85Radlove on December 31, 2014 at 9:55 pm

    prplpsn28,

    Miserable New Year to you! Just kidding! I feel that way sometimes too. It feels good to vent it, huh? What’s going on?

    (smile, just to spite ’em! 😉 )



  86.  #86Indigo on December 31, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    Radlove,

    I felt so resonant with your story of growing up, as it was very much my experience too.

    When I was a child, and right into my early twenties, both my parents had violent tempers, definitely bent on control. I had the message over and over again that others around me were allowed to express their feelings, but I wasn’t. That I was expected to shut up and do what I was told. That that was what polite, good girls do.

    When I finally started being assertive, it was such a shaky, trembly, scary experience for me. In the beginning I’d agonise for weeks before saying something! But I always felt wonderful afterwards. Even if expressing myself brought no change, it just felt SO good to let my feelings have voice, because they were silenced for so long. This is something I’m still working through, but I must say I am 100 times more comfortable speaking up now than I used to be. I don’t invalidate my feelings any more, and if I need to speak up, I do. Slowly, the way I feel about myself inside is changing, and I can feel the warm light of self-love dawning on me.

    Of course this dynamic has played out in my relationships with men as well. Their anger or displeasure or the fear of rejection has most times in the past been enough to shut me up or get me to capitulate or bend to their will or accept something I was not happy with. But that is changing now. Slowly, I am starting to say no to what I don’t want, and feeling what that feels like, rather than just “accepting” what I’ve been dished out. Ew, that feels icky just writing out. When I was a child one of my mom’s favourite expressions was “suck it up” and “no one promised you a rose garden”, even though the irony was that she was quick to throw her toys out of the cot when things didn’t go her way! I don’t blame her for this, she probably thought she was toughening me up, and she was doing the best she could, considering her own circumstances. It is just useful for me to realize how my past impacted me this way, and now I can work to have a different life.



  87.  #87Indigo on December 31, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    Dominique 63,

    Thank you for the beautiful article! I read it just before going to bed and it definitely provided some useful pointers and insight.

    Love ya! x



  88.  #88Mistea1 on January 1, 2015 at 6:03 am

    Andrea,
    Loved your post on the men cussing. You have so much clarity about these things. Ever thought of being a coach? Thanks for all your help.



  89.  #89Gear on January 1, 2015 at 6:12 am

    78 beloved, good for you! I like what you said, “I can be like a d Dagonfly, flitting about,…”

    Well, I spent my NYE just like that!
    I went out dinner with a girlfriend, she had agreed with me to go dancing afterwards, but at dinner she changed her mind, she was exhausted about things happening in her life. I understood, and let her go. Then I went dancing by myself. I got free entry, anybody got in before 9pm was free. Yee hoo!

    I don’t go to that place often, so nobody there know me. but it am very good dancer. I found a chair around the dance pool, and sat there, literally leaned back in the chair, with my legs crossed, and one Palm face up. The other arm on the back of the chair, I was in this lean back position whenever I am not there dancing.

    I had silent moments at the beginning, then a young man invited me to dance, we exchanged names, after, he invited me danced another round, I could feel he was not a good dancer, not on the rhythm at all, or the steps. I got tired of him. I didn’t think I showed that, but he never asked me dance again, only before I left the dance room talk to me and said good bye to me, and told me when he normally come to dance.

    Another I was sitting for quite sometime, an older gentleman came over asked me to dance. I danced with him two songs, then another gentleman came, asked me danced with him for two songs, then another gentleman, they all seemed enjoyed dnaixng with me, introduced their names to me to begin with, and I practiced feeling message at end and told them ,”I feel good dancing with you.”

    Then a vey handsome young man came, and asked me dance. He chatted with me while dancing, like social talk, we found out we are in the same profession.

    A couple of other dances. I stayed there for two hours, dancing most of the time, felt I got enough exercise and fun. And I left.

    The whole evening, I felt so calm, so soothed, so poised, and so fun. The evening felt so smooth, so joyous. It turned out completely satisfying.

    That was after I turned two guys’ invitation to spend the NYE with me. I felt and feel so good about myself. Me and a girlfriend, and me alone with the public, no expectation, no agenda, to live and let live. I feel buoyant, I feel I am getting comfortable between the waves, and can hold my own, leaning back, wait for the right man approach me… It feels marvelous!



  90.  #90Gear on January 1, 2015 at 6:13 am

    “That was after I turned down two guys invitation to spend…”



  91.  #91Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Hi Tee,

    #77 – Thank you! Happy New Year!

    I relate to a lot of what you said. I am also very much an introvert. I have a very hard time connecting to the physical realm. KET is an extrovert, and he talks more than any man I know, LOL!

    The only difference is right now KET, who I have known long distance for 15 years, is terminally ill with liver cancer, and since he is not able to work, he is happy to reverse roles with me while he can still function a little, doing housework since I am at work all day. He does feel frustrated, tho, that I spend so much time on the internet. He sees it as a waste of time. I try to express to him I have a whole life here, with friends, and I admit he is right in the sense that I need to find a balance. I could be content on the computer 8 hours a day, just doing what I feel like doing.

    I have been practicing and learning feeling messages since 2009. I feel frustrated with myself how hard I still struggle to use them when I feel angry. Yelling and swearing are second nature, LOL. I don’t like that side of myself, and I really want to heal it. Just packing a lot of anger after a childhood of being silenced, as I expressed in other recent posts.

    I love coming here and if I did what I felt like doing, I would spend hours here as I used to for years, when Rori and this blog and the women here were truly my lifeline throughout a very painful relationship. That relationship, I’m glad to report, has mellowed into a beautiful platonic friendship, and I have now known that man, R, for 7 years. I see him several times a week. I remain in love with him, but he just wants to be friends. Anyway, all that to say I come here now because it feels good, and I needed to shift my time and energy to other areas of my life. But this is good for a little refresher now and then!



  92.  #92Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:49 am

    ((( Beloved ))),

    79 – Thank you!! Happy New Year!!



  93.  #93Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Andrea,

    80 – You are very welcome! Happy New Year! I’m glad my words were helpful! Yeah, I’ve learned to have a little fun with feeling messages. I don’t always pull it off, but humor sure goes a long way to diffuse things.

    I have studied anger, because my Dad was a very angry person. I have been in and out of counseling therapy for 30 years and seen how many people hurl out anger as a means of controlling another, and probably most people aren’t consciously aware that they are doing it.

    I used to literally tremble as I tried feeling messages in the face of an angry person. Now I feel assertive, and I have determined I will freely express my thoughts and feelings, whether or not someone likes it. I am still refining my relational style, because I find sometimes I throw out belligerence as a means of strengthening my position. It’s hard for me to stay soft in the face of anger.

    I feel more empowered when I can stay soft, and sometimes humor works in the face of anger, too. With R I have found success in saying,, “Oooh, you’re so sexy when you’re angry!” He has a hard time not laughing and then we can really talk.

    For myself, I’ve come to a point where I see swearing as an expression of anger, and sometimes that is healthy venting. Nevertheless, I think it should be curbed especially around ladies and children.

    I have used swearing to vent way too much, and I have felt really bad when it becomes habit and I slip in front of children. I don’t want to do that. More and more I am trying to heal the anger and thus my own swearing.



  94.  #94Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Indigo,

    83 – Yup, I totally relate. I have come so far in being able to express my feelings. I had to get in touch with them first! In my 20s, a counselor said, “Just be yourself!” I said, “I don’t know who I am.” I have spent so much time finding the true me through crying, talking, journaling, drawing, thinking, praying…

    Journaling on this blog is amazing! I have found so much self discovery simply by seeing thoughts and feelings in print. Then when I get responses, it can be really eye opening! Rori is amazing, and she is one of my number one role models in life!! My time on her programs and on this blog have been more effective than 20 years worth of counseling in most respects!

    One of the biggest benefits has been practicing my feeling messages, often in the face of another woman’s anger, right here! I could hide behind the computer, and say what I really felt, letting the anger fly after I hit “Submit Comment”, knowing it would not be well received!

    I don’t strive to tick people off. But it has been very therapeutic to me to practice saying my real feelings without regard as to whether I would feel rejected as a result. I firmly believe in my right to say what I think and feel without repression! Repression virtually destroyed my tender heart in childhood!

    “Suck it up” is not healthy! If someone said that to me now, I would say, “That feels bad. I have a right to express my thoughts and feelings.” And if someone won’t listen to me when I speak, I have been known to write them a letter. This girl has found freedom in speech, and no one can take me back to Egypt! I am free!



  95.  #95Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Gear,

    86 – Wow!!! Congratulations, Siren!!! Your description of your night dancing on new year’s eve sounds like a beautiful fairy tale to me! You made it a reality! Now THAT is a true modern Siren! I feel so happy for you that you had that much fun, feeling so relaxed and happy in your femininity!

    I hope and pray for nights like that again! I am working on losing weight, which has been a symptom of all my inner damage, as well as a hindrance to attracting men. Today is a new day and a new year…



  96.  #96a woman on January 1, 2015 at 11:24 am

    Hello again everyone and happy New Year!

    Rori, I have been practicing telling the truth and it works wonders to me! There is a co-worker I like and I can feel he likes me. He knows I’m CDing and keeps asking about how my dates are going. The next time he asks again I want to say something like : “I feel uncomfortable to talk about my dates with you, because I like more than just a friend.”
    Is that OK, or is it leaning forward on my behalf? He hasn’t actually told that he likes me, it’s just my intuition and how he treats me and constantly leans forward, telling me he missed me etc. We are having fun and I like that. Does it makes sense at all, why would I feel uncomfortable talking about my dates?

    Love x



  97.  #97Indigo on January 1, 2015 at 11:36 am

    a woman,

    I know you asked for help from Rori, but I hope you don’t mind me replying.

    I think saying “I like you more than a friend” is leaning forward. It is enough to just say you feel uncomfortable talking about your dates, which is perfectly understandable. It is private after all.

    From what I’ve observed, a guy does not usually ask about a woman’s dates with other men if he is interested in her… most men seem to know that this is friend-zone stuff. I could be wrong though, but the only way to find out would be to flirt in a feminine way and see if he asks you out.



  98.  #98Fearful and Frustrated on January 1, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Rori, Dominique, Sirens, please help me!

    I’ve got myself in a real pickle, and it’s all my doing. My whole life I have never really been able to orgasm during sex, and I’ve always faked it. I started having sex at 14 and it wasn’t until about five years later, with my long-term college boyfriend, that I think I had maybe four or five orgasms during our two-year relationship. About the last six months of our relationship was pretty much sexless since I was so unsatisfied, and he was mystified after all that faking I had been doing.

    Then, that pretty much became the norm. Very infrequent orgasms with my partners, lots of fake ones, and me breaking up with them about six to nine months in due to loss of attraction / sex drive.

    There was one short period of my life where I seemed to be able to come with much more consistency, and it was during a time where I was in my mid-20s and partying very hard and not treating my partners very well at all. I would cheat on them and lie to them. One of them was pretty mean to me in return as well.

    Once the partying and treating men poorly calmed down in my late 20s and early 30s, it went back to the the infrequent orgasms and frequent faking. My resentment would build up, even though these boyfriends had no clue they were NOT getting me off, and I’d eventually break up with them.

    Until I was 31 years old, I had not had a relationship last longer than nine months except for my two-year relationship when I was in my late teens in college. At age 31, I met a man with whom I would have a three-year relationship with lots of trust, companionship, respect, living together — and the same exact sex problems.

    Only difference was that he did not pester me to have sex with him at the six-month point where my willingness to keep faking ran out. He seemed fine with it, and I started to convince myself that maybe I was more toward the asexual end of the spectrum. We enjoyed a very even-keeled and loyal relationship, but certainly not a sexual one.

    After three years, though, I started to feel not right in this situation. I would see other people with passion, mostly on TV, and crave that for myself. As hard as it was, I broke up with that guy. That was in April 2013. In September 2013, I found Rori, and a whole new adventure began.

    In May of this year, I met a wonderful man who treats me like a queen in every way and makes me so very happy. I was hoping the orgasmic sex would just click into place, but it didn’t, and faking began right away (even though I had promised myself I would not fake in my next relationship, I went right back to my old ways).

    However, about five months into the relationship he began going down on me for about 20 minutes straight, which I found out will give me an orgasm every time. I was in heaven! So happy to finally find a reliable way to come!

    So, here we are at seven months, and I am getting tired of faking orgasms and feel awful that I’m lying to this wonderful man, and I’m also not able to really keep that truth from leaking out at times. This tends to happen on those rare occasions when he does NOT go down on me and then we have sex for a very long time, and I feel so crummy that I can’t come, and he actually is unable to come about 20 percent of the time as well!

    So at those times I get really frustrated, and I say things about how he should just go down on me for about 20 minutes then go ahead and have sex with me until he comes (he says his inability to come sometimes is because he holds off in an attempt to give me more [fake] orgasms).

    So he gets really confused by these talks and starts to question why I would just want him to give me an orgasm through oral and then pleasure himself — he says he thought I was really enjoying myself during sex, and I can’t blame him for thinking that. I’ve been practicing this fake orgasm stuff since I was 14 (I’m 36 now).

    We’ve just had another one of these talks this morning, and he’s stalked off angry because he says he doesn’t know up from down when it comes to our sex life because most of the time I’m saying I’m coming like crazy, then every once in a while I’m letting onto the fact that the actual intercourse isn’t really very satisfying for me.

    With so many partners over so many years, including this current one, I have tried asking them to try all kinds of stuff on me that I think might maybe help me to orgasm. He incorporates ALL of it into our sex life and still the real orgasms during intercourse are infrequent for me.

    I am able to come when I masturbate, but it takes me quite a long time, around 40 minutes of consistent clitoral stimuation with either my hand or a vibrator — yes, it even takes me that long with a vibrator.

    The few times I have those authentic orgasms during actual intercourse, it is not really a matter of going for a long time or anything like that. We just happen to get into a position that makes me come, and it’s always unpredictable.

    Please Rori, Dominique, someone, anyone, help me out here. I am so lost and sad, and afraid that I’ve hurt my man’s ego or will have to crush his ego if I tell him the truth, and that he will never trust me again, and that he won’t want me if I’m “broken” and can only come reliably during oral.



  99.  #99Cutie on January 1, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    Rori, Dominique, Sirens, please help me!

    I’ve got myself in a real pickle, and it’s all my doing. My whole life I have never really been able to orgasm during sex, and I’ve always faked it. I started having sex at 14 and it wasn’t until about five years later, with my long-term college boyfriend, that I think I had maybe four or five orgasms during our two-year relationship. About the last six months of our relationship was pretty much sexless since I was so unsatisfied, and he was mystified after all that faking I had been doing.

    Then, that pretty much became the norm. Very infrequent orgasms with my partners, lots of fake ones, and me breaking up with them about six to nine months in due to loss of attraction / sex drive.

    There was one short period of my life where I seemed to be able to come with much more consistency, and it was during a time where I was in my mid-20s and partying very hard and not treating my partners very well at all. I would cheat on them and lie to them. One of them was pretty mean to me in return as well.

    Once the partying and treating men poorly calmed down in my late 20s and early 30s, it went back to the the infrequent orgasms and frequent faking. My resentment would build up, even though these boyfriends had no clue they were NOT getting me off, and I’d eventually break up with them.

    Until I was 31 years old, I had not had a relationship last longer than nine months except for my two-year relationship when I was in my late teens in college. At age 31, I met a man with whom I would have a three-year relationship with lots of trust, companionship, respect, living together — and the same exact sex problems.

    Only difference was that he did not pester me to have sex with him at the six-month point where my willingness to keep faking ran out. He seemed fine with it, and I started to convince myself that maybe I was more toward the asexual end of the spectrum. We enjoyed a very even-keeled and loyal relationship, but certainly not a sexual one.

    After three years, though, I started to feel not right in this situation. I would see other people with passion, mostly on TV, and crave that for myself. As hard as it was, I broke up with that guy. That was in April 2013. In September 2013, I found Rori, and a whole new adventure began.

    In May of this year, I met a wonderful man who treats me like a queen in every way and makes me so very happy. I was hoping the orgasmic sex would just click into place, but it didn’t, and faking began right away (even though I had promised myself I would not fake in my next relationship, I went right back to my old ways).

    However, about five months into the relationship he began going down on me for about 20 minutes straight, which I found out will give me an orgasm every time. I was in heaven! So happy to finally find a reliable way to come!

    So, here we are at seven months, and I am getting tired of faking orgasms and feel awful that I’m lying to this wonderful man, and I’m also not able to really keep that truth from leaking out at times. This tends to happen on those rare occasions when he does NOT go down on me and then we have sex for a very long time, and I feel so crummy that I can’t come, and he actually is unable to come about 20 percent of the time as well!

    So at those times I get really frustrated, and I say things about how he should just go down on me for about 20 minutes then go ahead and have sex with me until he comes (he says his inability to come sometimes is because he holds off in an attempt to give me more [fake] orgasms).

    So he gets really confused by these talks and starts to question why I would just want him to give me an orgasm through oral and then pleasure himself — he says he thought I was really enjoying myself during sex, and I can’t blame him for thinking that. I’ve been practicing this fake orgasm stuff since I was 14 (I’m 36 now).

    We’ve just had another one of these talks this morning, and he’s stalked off angry because he says he doesn’t know up from down when it comes to our sex life because most of the time I’m saying I’m coming like crazy, then every once in a while I’m letting onto the fact that the actual intercourse isn’t really very satisfying for me.

    With so many partners over so many years, including this current one, I have tried asking them to try all kinds of stuff on me that I think might maybe help me to orgasm. He incorporates ALL of it into our sex life and still the real orgasms during intercourse are infrequent for me.

    I am able to come when I masturbate, but it takes me quite a long time, around 40 minutes of consistent clitoral stimuation with either my hand or a vibrator — yes, it even takes me that long with a vibrator.

    The few times I have those authentic orgasms during actual intercourse, it is not really a matter of going for a long time or anything like that. We just happen to get into a position that makes me come, and it’s always unpredictable.

    Please Rori, Dominique, someone, anyone, help me out here. I am so lost and sad, and afraid that I’ve hurt my man’s ego or will have to crush his ego if I tell him the truth, and that he will never trust me again, and that he won’t want me if I’m “broken” and can only come reliably during oral.



  100.  #100Cutie on January 1, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    By the way, I’ve tried to just melt and breathe during sex and allow the sensations to move through me. This feels really good and seems like it might work if I could do it for long enough during sex. However, I usually start to worry about him not thinking I’m enjoying myself enough (so used to faking really enthusiastically). The couple times I’ve actually managed to just try to melt and breathe throughout the entire act, not doing any faking at all, he has ended up stopping without coming about 30 or 40 minutes into sex, saying that I don’t seem very into it and that it “doesn’t feel like us.” I can’t blame him, he’s used to me screaming and moaning in fake pleasure, so it must seem pretty weird when I don’t do that. : (



  101.  #101Dominique on January 1, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Cutie – Did you know that there are VERY few women who are able to orgasm through intercourse alone? Even those who can usually need plenty of foreplay as well as stimulation during intercourse, eg. hers or her man’s hand stimulating her clitoris during intercourse.

    And many women need to teach their bodies how to orgasm even when by themselves.

    You are so normal. What hasn’t been good for you is the lying, the faking. Your man wants to please you, yet how can he know how when you’re not being honest with him. Would he be open to a heart-to-heart around this? I think it would be a good idea. Tell him the raw truth. Tell him about your fears and what led you to lie and fake orgasm. And that you would love to heal this with him. Ask for his help with this.

    You CAN cultivate your orgasms. I encourage you to read all you can in the sex section of the archives on my site. It does take time though to resensitize your tissues to feel more and thus be more able to orgasm readily.

    http://sexandheart.com/category/sex/

    And orgasms though wonderful feeling, don’t have to be the end game, the goal here. It can be far more about sharing with each other, feeling close and connected whether you orgasm or not.

    I would also encourage you to explore tantra. I talk some about this in my own ebook. For more in depth talk, my favorite book is Margot Anand’s, the smaller one as well as the bigger one. The title escapes the moment, something like The Art of Sexual Ecstasy. That might even be it.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  102.  #102Andrea on January 1, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    Indigo: so helpful, your post about your friend zone guy. I have a male friend, much the same as yours, wanted to date me, I just don’t feel it, so he “pretends” to be friends.
    He pulls these same tricks that make me feel suspicious, queezy, and used. He insists on us driving together (says he knows I’m a working mom and doesn’t want me to hassle with gas). He asks me to many date like events; concerts, dinner out just us two, etc.
    The other night he said he just wanted to pop into a bar where one of his friends hangs out. Needed to talk to him or something. So we went in together and it felt like it was planned or something. His friends were ogling me and one even said, “How’d you manage that?” to him. And then he called me, “Babe.” in very loud voice. Like… sit here Babe, I’ll be right back.

    So I determined to have nothing more to do with him.

    I don’t know what else might work. I feel frustrated with the hazy sneakiness. I also feel icked out because he kind of glommed onto me and he either goes out with me or stays home. He won’t ask other women out. When I asked him why he said something like, “No women would want to go out with me (because of his health condition)”

    So I’m like the… fall back. I’m the one who was losery enough to accept his invitations. I’m the one who he is using to deflect from the fact that he really needs to work on himself. I’m his escape mechanism.

    He’s hinted that he’s getting these tickets to see a comedian in Feb. But he knows he overheard me telling one of my girlfriends that I’d like to see that comedian. He’s acting like just out of the blue, he’s come up with this idea.

    I have this fantasy where he asks me to go with him but I tell him that I won’t even consider it unless he asks five other women out and they all turn him down. I want the names, phone numbers, and reasons for the turn down.

    Then I think… that’s just me putting way too much effort into his life… and that’s exactly what he wants me to do. Coddle him, baby him, take care of him, and in the end date him so that he doesn’t have to work on himself at all.

    I hate to admit this but I really want him out of my life. I’m starting to feel like he’s not really a “friend” at all.



  103.  #103Andrea on January 1, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    Rad, I feel amazed at how similar we are. Some of your stories about your past, about your dad, about you telling your therapist, “I don’t even know who I am” are so similar to me.
    I read your posts and I think… “Is that really me typing?” It feels so strange to have so much in common.

    Another person who posts on here IAMHIS, is someone that I have really odd similarities too as well. I too was raised and defected from an uncommon religious community. It’s been eight years ago that I left that life, but at the age of 33 I was a woman, living with my parents, and participating in strict religious beliefs and ideas about women and their “place” in life.

    I feel curious how so many of us can have such similar backgrounds. And all diverge on the Rory site. : )



  104.  #104Andrea on January 1, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    oh and with regards to 101. The reason I have let it go on this long is because when I do turn him down, he has called me at all hours crying to me that he’s all alone. He has texted me: “I am just going to stop going into town. No one cares if I show up or not.”
    He has coaxed me by getting my other girlfriends on board. When he hears I’m going out with a crowd, he has volunteered to be designated driver.
    He’ll pay for my girlfriends and I to get into places and so they can’t fathom why I don’t like him. But yet, I’m the one that gets stuck entertaining him while they all run off to flirt with other men.

    Just different things like that. I feel badgered by him and sometimes he offers gifts so generous when I need them the most… like offering to pay my daughter’sand my phone bill when I just could not find any other way to get the money, or co-signing a student loan for me when I was being threatened getting kicked out of school for no payment. Things like that where he’s come through for me at a time when I really needed help.
    But there was always the understanding on my part that he was helping as a friend, not as a boyfriend.

    Now I feel guilty that I have let it go on this long and it’s like a run away train that i can’t stop.

    Is it okay to ignore his texts and phone calls for a while? Or is there a script that says, I don’t want you in my life for a while. I’m feeling… hemmed in, boxed in, used in a strange way, manipulated…
    (and I’ve tried to explain that stuff to him but he just doesn’t see it. He says, “I’m your friend and that’s what friends do.”)



  105.  #105Linda on January 1, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    I wanted to pop in and say Hi and Happy New Year to everyone.

    I had a personal revelation that I have been living my live “on hold” a few months back. It was all triggered by the comments about the Cinderella myth we can buy into. “Someday our prince will come” and everything in life will fall into to place and will be wonderful”. Unknowingly I had that internalized. I had so many things on the shelf . I had spoken “someday” to myself about so many things. Many of my “somedays” were tied to finances and the lack there of and finding the love relationship I desired so much.

    There was so much anxiety tied to my “someday story”. It carried so much weight and literally drove me . I have made some big changes have empowered me. I am for the first time in I cant remember when content and ok. Lacking and waiting on nothing anymore.

    I took me and my desires, hopes and dreams off the shelf and have been investing 100 percent of my energy into now, today and me. I had no idea that changing a mind set could make such a difference but it has.

    It feels wonderful to have embraced and enabled me. Oddly looking for a relationship is not even on my radar. It is literally not even a desire right now and I have never been in that sort of mindset. What a shift!

    I used to feel sad and trapped at times… now I feel curious, creative and free.

    I am looking forward to what 2015 will hold. I feel curious about its possibilities and excited to embrace them with this feeling of wholeness. Painting myself with love took on a whole new direction last year. Who knew that saying no to a relationship that just really didn’t fit right would pave the way for where I am today.!

    Yeah!



  106.  #106Linda on January 1, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    Oh I wanted to say that for those of you who remember my problems with the man I contracted to do some work at my place and build a new mini barn got resolved in a way that I never imagined!

    The referral website that I registered with and that linked him to me stepped in and up and sent me every dime of my money back! All they asked of me was to send them a copy of the cancelled check and signed contract and I was sooo flabbergasted! and thankful!! They removed him from their service and gave me an apology for the trouble it had caused me.

    I have no idea if they went after him for the money he stole from me but the made it right with me.

    Oddly, I saw the man in a nearby store parking lot messing with his tire on his vehicle not long after I received the money. I felt such disgust and anger at him but just kept driving.

    I am a firm believer in you reap what you sow. Recieving my money back was a reminder of that!



  107.  #107Linda on January 1, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    Andrea you are a masteress at feeling messages. Telling him how you feel is in all candor the gift you can give him. Him getting it is not your responsibility really. Gifts with strings and manipulation feels icky indeed.



  108.  #108Tee on January 1, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Well I did it again ladies. I blew up at my man. I feel like I was justified in doing it because I feel as though he’s ignoring us. I also feel like I did it for attention and spite. I don’t wanna be this person but I feel like I’m grasping at straws trying to find ways to reach him and have him understand. Part of me feels stupid because men do what they want. I feel like he doesn’t care.

    Seems like I do okay until he wants time on his own which 90% of the time involves him drinking. I keep saying that I won’t do this. I’ll be cool and confident. Instead we traded insults and hurt feelings via text.

    (Sigh)



  109.  #109Gear on January 1, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Rad love 95, thank you for your encouragement, I feel blushing, feel so validated, so affirmed of the progress I have made. In all my life, I was leaning back most of the time, wait for the men to chase me, but what I have improved since RR’s program is to unzip my heart, made myself emotionally available, and express, engage, and expand…it’s huge, and it’s the key to build intimate relationship.
    I like your comment in 94 as well. It spoke to me big time too.
    I feel so echoing what you said.

    Thank you again.



  110.  #110Gear on January 1, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    I have a dilemma here. I have dated this guy B for three dates. He asked me for NYE and NYD, I turned it off both days, so he asked me for dinner tomorrow. I feel little physical attraction to him, or intellectual or emotional. I know he is a good guy, and he treats me like a queen, he wants to getting married and have family, But we have little common interest. I do enjoy his friendship. He just setup a nice sushi restaurant date, at an expensive place. I feel perplexed if I want to go. If I go, do I share the bill with him? Should I end the dating with him? what kind of message I share with him?

    Need some feedback from the Sirens.



  111.  #111Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    A Woman,

    RE: #96 – I would say (based on what I’ve learned from Rori), “I feel a lil weird/uncomfortable being asked that…cuz I have feelings for you way above and beyond friendship.”

    Now maybe in this instance it would be premature, I’m not sure. Maybe it depends on how long you’ve known him. If it’s a NEW friendship, then I would say, “Well, I feel a lil weird/uncomfortable being asked that by a man.”

    If he asked why, I’d say, “I like to take my time getting to know a man, and I like to reveal myself as I feel comfortable.” Something like that.

    Once I ran that on a man, while we were on a Skype session (we had never met in person and we never did meet). He got a little indignant and said, “What have you got to hide? I am open with everything I talk about.”

    I said, “I’m not trying to hide anything. Frankly, I think it’s a loaded question. I generally don’t talk about other men with a man. I like to be discovered as I choose to allow myself to be discovered.”

    Personally, I think it’s rather invasive when a man wants to go there. I didn’t like the way the guy I was talking to was so pushy about it. I like it when a man just talks freely and allows me to talk freely as I wish. I don’t want to be pressured.



  112.  #112Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    Hi Cutie!

    #98-99 – I totally echo what Dominique wrote to you! I would have said nearly the same thing if she hadn’t already written it! I I used to think I was frigid! I had men imply that I was frigid! I felt so inferior!

    Along the way, one of my guy friends who was long distance turned me on to dildos and vibrators. After much experimentation and exploring, I became the Queen of Self-Pleasuring! LOL! Here I am now, at age 51, and I could seriously write a book on how to pleasure yourself as a woman!

    I can make myself cum in 5-10 min with either a clit climax or G-spot. I have found THE state-of-the-art vibrator/dildo that outdoes ALL that I tried before (in case you are interested, it’s called the Body Wand, and no, I’m not a paid advertiser for them, LOL!)

    The most important thing, as Dominique said, is to totally step away from faking orgasms. It is a total antithesis of lovemaking, which is about intimacy…INTO-ME-SEE!!!! And Rori is all about becoming so genuine with yourself that a man knows what you feel at any given moment! Rori is all about removing masks and unzipping your heart!

    Maybe since this is a new skill for you, it will take some practice to grow verbally intimate with your man. I would say something like this:

    Wonderful Man, I feel really attracted to you, and I hope you are in my life for a long time! I felt like I was walking on Cloud 9 when I first got to know you, and I wanted everything to go perfectly.

    I feel really sad that things have been a little off, can we talk about it?

    I would give him space to respond, and assuming he says yes, I would continue…

    I want to be closer to you, and I want to learn how to allow you to get closer to me. And I feel scared. I feel really scared that if I let you see the real me, I will be rejected. And yet I know that if we are to be truly fulfilled together, I have to let all my walls down.

    This feels scary, but I am going to let you see into me a little more clearly. I have had a long term issue with not being genuine when I am in bed with a man, and altho I intended to be real with you, I fell back into what has become second nature, and I have been faking orgasms with you at times. I don’t want to do that with you, and I hope you understand. What do you think?

    I would give him space to respond and go from there.

    Now let’s talk about Cutie…why did you start faking orgasms when you were a teenager? Can you get alone with yourself and ask yourself why, at a really really deep level? You don’t have to tell us here if it is too personal, but if you want to go deep and journal it here, that’s ok too!

    When I started faking orgasms, I felt _________ .



  113.  #113Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Hi Andrea,

    I’m glad that you relate! I feel interested to know more about your background and the rigid lifestyle you left behind.



  114.  #114Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    Gear,

    #108 – You are welcome! You go, girl!



  115.  #115Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Hi Linda!

    Happy New Year! You sound like you are in such a good place! Me too, for the most part. I have come full circle about men and my deep, lifelong desire to have a relationship. I stopped looking. I turned almost full focus on myself, and have been feeling quite content being on my own.

    My ex from 15 years ago, KET, moved here in Nov because he is terminally ill. He is stepping up in a serious way! I didn’t ever think I would have feelings about him again…but it’s going amazingly well! Even tho I know his time is limited, it feels good to be at peace with him again after all this time.

    When he is gone, I feel confident that I will be just fine on my own until the right man comes. That’s a new, good feeling for me!



  116.  #116Nicki on January 1, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I’m feeling so disturbed rori. I have been in a on again, off again long distance relationship for 7years with my now fiancé (he proposed last month). This past year I moved to New Orleans (his hometown), we moved in together and I am now pregnant and we are now engaged and marrying in February. At first when I moved things were really great, I felt so connected and warm and happy and cared for and I still feel those things, there’s just one thing that was a small annoyance and has now become almost a fully grown elephant. I feel bad and disconnected when my fiancé seems to only be able to have sex doggy style or oral & whenever we happen to end up in a different position, he either goes soft or quickly changes positions (to oral or doggystyle).i feel so disconnected in these positions and I don’t really feel any skin to skin contact or eye contact, I feel like a piece of meat and I don’t like that. I feel silly about feeling so disturbed by this, I know many women would give anything to be with a guy who interacts with them the way my fiancé does (outside of sex) and I love him with my whole heart. But, I don’t know if I can marry myself into this, I feel unimportant sexually right now and I don’t know how to get this out to him.
    A little background on us, we are both 22 yrs. Old; we began dating when we were sophomore’s. We dated for a few months before he moved back to New Orleans(no sex, just fooling around), from there we dated another 6months long distance and though I loved him at that young age(16) I couldn’t handle the distance and began seeing someone else, we broke up. But, we always stayed in touch and built a pretty strong emotional connection. This time last year he began to pursue me and after a brief visit to New Orleans, I decided to move down here permanently. We moved in together, I became pregnant, we got engaged a month ago and here we are.
    I know there is attraction there and I couldn’t imagine he is gay (I have snooped at the porn he watches & no gay stuff there). Realizing that I was in a long distance, semi-imaginary relationship with my fiancé for so long, I guess it’s safe to say I have a little problem with intimacy myself and I do! I’m wondering if maybe that’s the issue for him also…
    I love the size of his penis and am happy we do oral and it does PHYSICALLY feel good in the doggy style position. But, I just feel so disconnected emotionally from him in that position, I feel like I’m a piece of meat instead of a woman, fiancé, wife, feminine creature. We have talked about this once before and I shared that I felt like a piece of meat and that I don’t want to feel that way and we agreed to try some different things. but, it never really happened. I must admit I felt nervous out of my mind about, the idea of him looking at me during sex, when we haven’t ever really done it that way before(I feel sad typing that).
    I don’t mean want to rant. I just really hope u can help me rori, with what to say or what to do in this situation, I really do love him. I don’t want to leave and at the same time, sex and intimacy do feel really important to me. I don’t know that I can agree to marry him when I’m feeling unhappy about the sex. I’m afraid I will feel the urge to cheat, stop having sex with him altogether or start lashing out and attacking him because of this… I was only able to find a couple of posts on the blog about sex, Please help.



  117.  #117Radlove on January 1, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Tee,

    #107 – Sorry to hear you are struggling in your relationship. Sad face. Is he an alcoholic?

    Let me offer some possible feeling messages. You may need to tweak them to fit your personality and situation, because I don’t know you or it all that well…

    I feel invisible, and I don’t want to feel that way with you…

    This feels awful! I don’t know what’s wrong these days. All I know is I miss the connection we used to have. It feels so good when we feel connected. What do you think?

    I would apologize for yelling and swearing …I have had to apologize many times to Kenny. He is often really antagonizing, but I still don’t want to react that way. I know I can’t control his behavior, but I want to control mine.

    After apologizing, I would ask, “How can we fix this? I want to get along with you. I don’t want to fight. What do you think?”



  118.  #118Tee on January 1, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    Hey Rad, you’re a sweetheart. I feel stupid for all of my whining but I feel what I feel. Is he an alcoholic? Hard to answer that without trying to sugarcoat things. He loves to drink beer, he rarely does hard liquor but he does enjoy being at the bar where he grew up. Sometimes he’ll meet up with a friend, go to their house and drink there. It seems like if he’s not working, he intends to go somewhere to get a beer or 3. He drinks at home too.

    He’s not a mean drinker or sloppy or lazy. Oftentimes, I can’t tell that he’s had too many until he tells me. He has at times been too drunk to come home. So he’ll crash with a relative or some random friend. He seems to believe that as long as he’s not cheating and he comes home, I shouldn’t be so mad.

    True, sometimes he will give me a heads up in the hopes that I won’t worry or be mad but this isn’t cool. He has been to a few AA meetings and seems to have enjoyed them but I try not to get my hopes up.

    His Dad is a drinker too and that’s where he was the last time. Drunk at his Dad’s house, just acting silly and telling old high school stories about us. (Eyeroll)

    I just think it’s really stupid, juvenile and irresponsible to have your social life revolve so much around beer especially when you have a family. Yes, I did know this beforehand but I guess I thought he’d grow up and slow down.

    I’m probably not helping matters by nagging but I don’t know. I feel unloved, like the drink is more important than we are. This too-drunk-to-come-home thing is a fairly new occurrence. Like I said before, it seemed like he became unglued during the holidays.

    He did mention being stressed but I can only buy that for so long. I’m tired of nagging and monitoring him yet when I let him just do whatever, I feel like a loser.

    My plan was/is to just focus on myself but feeling like I’ve been abandoned is a trigger for me. I almost always lose it when I feel like he left me. He tries to reassure me that he’s not leaving but it feels very true in that moment when I’m alone and he prefers a loud bar to drink in.

    So maybe this is more about my triggers than his drinking? Either way it’s an ugly cycle, a ride I’d like to discontinue.



  119.  #119Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 2:30 am

    Cutie –

    I have dealt all my adult life with not having orgasms. I was a late bloomer, and on antidepressants, dealing with severe panic disorder, etc. I hear you.

    I am still on some serious antidepressants and have always had a lot of anxiety towards sex, having always been on the heavier side, and also having had some past trauma. Having gotten past my weight issues and anxiety during sex, as the last times I have actually had sex lol, I’ve been able to have an orgasm, with my boyfriend. It really feels great to know that I can have it with him. Faking though just messes up the flow more. It’s almost as though we’re saying “Ugh, get it over with.” It’s also tough to break the cycle once you have it going. I once actually broke the cycle when I told a Circular Date I had before my current boyfriend, that I had problems having orgasms during sex so don’t worry about it for now, and he just said, “Well, that takes pressure off of me.” I was okay with that, so we just let it be what it was and still had fun, it was nice.

    I can say from personal experience that not only can you cultivate your own orgasm, we really always make ourselves do it, and yes the man can help us, but it’s really mostly us. My therapist presented the idea to me that we make ourselves orgasm, and the times when I have been able to with a partner, it’s been because my body went with the flow and didn’t hold any anxiety in or try to stop the flow.

    I have also been talking to a woman who’s a sex therapist, and she has been talking to me about the same thing which she’s dealt with, and I am also dealing with in the male department, in my current situation. So it’s more common than you think, I believe. For me it may actually be tied to a behavior pattern, something called sexual anorexia, but of course I’m not a doctor or a therapist, so I’d need to see a therapist who specializes in this to know for sure. But things have been looking up on the Big O department since I chose to see it differently. That and since I have become sensitized to my partner because we don’t have sex every day, I think that helps too, which makes sense. If I put the vibrator down it seems to help too.



  120.  #120Radlove on January 2, 2015 at 2:44 am

    Tee,

    116 – I have lived with alcoholics and drug addicts, and I have had a lot of exposure to them because I corresponded with men in and out of prison for the past 25 years. It is a slow, downward spiral, and I don’t mean to be unkind, but he is an alcoholic.

    I could say encouraging things to make you feel good, but I’m going to say what I really think. It’s not that I want you to feel bad…it’s that I want every Siren on here to be happy in the long term.

    Something has got to change, or this drunken cycle will just repeat itself. You cannot change him, so the only thing you can change is yourself. I would go to a CODA or Alanon group for YOURSELF. Next step, I would try to find another home. I know breaking up isn’t fun, easy, and it’s especially not simple. But in the long term, if you want your sanity, I would make some tuff choices for YOUR life. Because I don’t want you to wake up some sad morning ten years from now wondering where your life went.

    I have lived with men who I could never hope to get close to because there stood a cold, glass bottle between me and them. One of them went to five rehabs in the six months I was with him. He died of liver disease, drinking himself to death. The other one stole from me and anyone else he could, lying and deceiving as he went. My compassion turned into assertiveness as I stopped paving the way for him to destroy himself and everyone around him.

    He is anesthetizing the pain of something. I know it’s not an easy thing to leave your pet alcoholic, and so I encourage you to focus 100 percent on you. Your pet alcoholic will keep you distracted, and it feels better to blame him. He is definitely causing a lot of the issues, but the best thing you can do for him AND you is to separate paths. That will be a wake up call to him and in the meantime, you can strive for a more positive lifestyle with someone who wants to become his best self.

    I am well aware that all of this is easier said than done, and that is why a support group is so important. I don’t know you or your situation all that well, so please excuse me if these are bold words. I just hope to spare you the pain and suffering I passed through.



  121.  #121Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 2:51 am

    I’ve decided after three years in this weird sexual limbo with my guy I need to do this…

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/sex-sensuality/when-theres-no-more-sex-be-done-with-him/

    I feel I cannot take it anymore, I hate feeling like the last person on earth he would touch or want to do anything with, and I hate constantly not being chosen over strippers and porn. I hate that because he loves me, he is afraid to have any intimacy and starves me of it because of his issues. I hate that he buries his head about it and I don’t want to any longer. I am basically willing to risk the relationship to get some relief here. I am just not accepting this as a good situation anymore.

    He says he used to have all kinds of good sex and I have spent the last two and a half years trying to get him to have it with me, yet I can count how many times we’ve had sex in the past year on two hands. I’m sorry, but that’s pathetic. I can’t live like that.
    It’s like I have a boyfriend who has actually just been a bag of hot dogs this whole time, and I thought he was a guy. He won’t walk across the room on his own accord, he won’t get a good job, he doesn’t really even clean himself up much, he stopped cooking and now just is in pain and it’s absolutely awful, there’s no fun left in the relationship. I hate that he’s not the lease for my apartment and yet and tells me what to do with the air conditioning. Most of all, I hate that he controls me and strings me along by not having sex with me, by deliberately “withholding the basics of a relationship”. What I don’t get is that if he didn’t want a relationship he could just end it, but he doesn’t, probably because he is in a good apartment, has good company and doesn’t want to spoil his own fun.

    So I am now trying to build my own confidence to where I am able to say to him, this isn’t working out as a romantic relationship, and I’d like to start dating other people, but I need to him to move out so I can have my own place and get a chance to see new people.

    The other option is therapy, and I have been saying that for a long time. It’s just I’m not sure I can wait that long. I have waited long enough I’m kinda done here. But I’m still kind of 85% sure. There is me looking back and saying wow, how will I feel when he is with another girl, or I hear that he’s doing this or that, or how will I feel when he’s in pain and there’s nothing I can do because I let him go.

    I’m not sure but one thing is for sure. I’m so sorry if this is offensive but I really really wish I could have sex right now. It sucks so badly. It is one of the worst feelings ever and I want to get away far far away from it and never feel it again…

    This is not a good feeling but if I were in a universe where I could back up time, I probably would’ve not said yes to being his girlfriend and just kept him as a circular date, as I am truly at his mercy here. My own choice there. I had to have him for my own I guess.



  122.  #122Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 3:03 am

    Tee,

    I feel Radlove is right on there…I have lived with my boyfriend for three years, who unfortunately is a functioning alcoholic, never stole from me, but has basically kept me in a codependent, sexless situation forever, as I just described above, living with me and drinking all he wants. His parents just gave him $500 for Xmas, and it is money his grandma left him – but I bet you he will drink it all away if he has to. I can’t say what will happen is your situation, but I know there’s better men out there, for myself, and for you, too.



  123.  #123Radlove on January 2, 2015 at 3:03 am

    Hi Mandy and Cutie,

    I like what Mandy wrote, and it reminded me of a couple other things I’d like to share…I found that if I pleasured myself before sex, I was already aroused and cuming came that much easier.

    The other thing is I was with R in 2009 and altho we didn’t have sex all the way, we had a lot of foreplay. I found he had a different touch and different attitude than all the other men I was ever with, and I felt amazed when the first time he touched my Yoni, I was next to cumming within 5 minutes! We are still friends all these years later, and we still haven’t had sex, but on Christmas just a few days ago, we were playing again and the same quick arousal came!

    After my experience with him in 2009, I concluded that I was far from frigid! And it wasn’t me at all! It was that men didn’t know how to approach sex in a romantic way! It is true that the mind is the number one sex organ!

    What made the difference is I never felt pressured, and he wasn’t all about sex, rather, he was about romance and celebrating my mind and heart! Sex was a natural outpouring of all that! We logged hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours just talking and talking and talking! He explored my thoughts and feelings about and around sex! It felt delicious!

    For the first time, I didn’t feel like two breasts and a vagina. I felt like the complex, beautiful woman who I am, and he was far more interested in what was inside my heart than what was inside my pants! As we lay in bed, he is the first man who didn’t grope me! He acted as if we had all the time in the world, and he never initiated touch without fully exploring it verbally first. Sometimes he would ask if I would like to touch him, and sometimes he would ask if I would like him to touch me. It felt so other centered and so respectful! And by the time he actually touched me, I was burning for it!

    Once inside my Yoni, instead of rubbing me raw as most men were prone to do, he very slooowwwlllyyy made circles on and around my clit. The delight was maddening! He was utterly sensitive to what I liked, repeatedly asking if it felt good and what he could do to make it feel better! He is a lover of women, and he admires them to no end! His respect for women knows no end, and I felt completely safe by his side!

    I have concluded it is that feeling of emotional and physical safety that I have with him that makes the ultimate difference. I never have the feeling that he will be rough or not care about my feelings. Of course he is not perfect, but after having known him since December 2007, he is my favorite human being in the world! I am in love with him, and I may not have the same love in return, but we are close friends with pretty much daily contact. I will mention again I am currently living with KET, my ex husband who I’ve known since 2000. KET is terminally ill with liver cancer so he will not be in my future for long. I don’t know what will come but anyway that is a bit of my story.



  124.  #124Radlove on January 2, 2015 at 3:07 am

    ((( Mandy )))



  125.  #125Indigo on January 2, 2015 at 3:19 am

    Mandy,

    I want high five you and shout “YES!” and “Yay you!!” and then I want to give you a big hug.

    It makes me think of Sophie’s situation, about a year ago I think, where her boyfriend moved in with her when she wasn’t actually completely happy with the relationship, and the basics just fell more and more by the wayside.

    Being in a sexless relationship is torture that no one has to endure. You do not have to endure it. I have seen you trying so incredibly hard over the months that I’ve been reading your posts, taking so much upon yourself, with a man who honestly comes across from what you’ve written as though he barely tries at all, yet makes you feel that he’s doing you an enormous favour every time he does.

    “So I am now trying to build my own confidence to where I am able to say to him, this isn’t working out as a romantic relationship, and I’d like to start dating other people, but I need to him to move out so I can have my own place and get a chance to see new people…I probably would’ve not said yes to being his girlfriend and just kept him as a circular date, as I am truly at his mercy here.”

    I think this is an excellent plan, and one which will have you feeling miles better in no time. For my part, I support you in this.



  126.  #126Indigo on January 2, 2015 at 3:28 am

    Andrea 101,

    I had this wonderful long post that I wrote this morning, which disappeared when I tried to post it.

    But basically to say, yes. I have had enough guy friends who have fallen for me yet were trying to play it cool and pretending that we were just friends while trying to convince me that we would really be good together, to know it when I see it. It doesn’t feel good when I have specifically said I don’t want to date, and that I just want to be friends. I know why my friend wasn’t forthcoming with the time and address of the NYE barbecue – because he was hoping that we would go together. I don’t really have an interest in stating my position over and over again, so I only do what I feel comfortable with… and if he can’t get on board with that, well, it is his problem. I let my boundaries be the thing that protects me here.

    What I wanted to say was, do you think you’d feel more empowered with this guy friend of yours if you only stuck to what you felt comfortable with? You are not obligated to him in any way, even though he has done things for you and given you gifts. But if accepting these makes you FEEL obligated to him, I would decline them. Sometimes having freedom and control over your own situation is worth finding a creative solution, rather than relying on someone who is merely trying to get a foothold in your life.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I am all for guy friends. But being pushed and pressured and not believed when you say you just want to be friends feels REALLY yuck.



  127.  #127Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 4:06 am

    Ah boy….Indigo…

    I had to write to you right back. Ya, he is constantly aloof and I just can’t stand it. I believe I deserve a man who’s energy is coming towards me. Bag of hotdogs is what I’m dealing with here.

    I will need time and patience from the Sirens as I go through this journey. I haven’t even figured out how I’m going to do this yet and it could take months. This is going to be INCREDIBLY tough for me, to do the detaching, grieving process and let him go, baby step by baby step…he has a habit of playing on my heart strings. He’s in physical pain and his family totally dumps him on me to take care of. I don’t want to take care of anyone but myself.

    So now I feel I have some control of my own situation in my heart and head even though nothing’s been done yet; just the thought that I have finally decided I’m done being ignored and neglected is relieving…and I have seen myself begin to detach which feels sad, but sometimes it feels necessary and like I shouldn’t even care so I choose not to care most of the time.
    I even allowed a woman to flirt with him basically shamelessly for three hours right next to me the other night and didn’t even care. My friend V said she could see me detaching from him when I let her flirt with him. I feel a bit weird that the woman was rubbing herself on him a bit, but whatever, I seriously am so tired of caring, I give up…fuck it…he will always choose other women over me, whether it’s a manipulative thing, a way to make me jealous, whatever…I have to stop giving a fuck. His power is taken away that way. I hope. I want no one to have any power over me anymore!

    But ya, I have been leaning back simply by giving up caring. If I make any mistakes to make him go away further at this point I actually don’t care because maybe it will make the breakup process go faster or something…he could be used for practice with feeling messages etc, until I’m ready to tell him we need to see other people.

    I really do love him…and I’m tearing up here as I write this…he will always be a special man to me…he may not be all that right now, he may be choosing to drift through life, but as a person, he is incredibly talented, smart, and very able to do incredible things and I wish him the absolute best….nothing less…he is a very special man to me, a very special friend, I do not want to lose that, and I will miss snuggling with him at night and being so close…his scent, his body…his voice…his gestures…when he danced with me the other night…his dinners…his sweet words…his beautiful eyes…I am going to miss that 🙁

    I need for you Sirens to tell me if this is it…if this is what I need to do…I don’t want to wake up ten years from now having missed my thirties and had no fun on account of a man who sucked me dry…and didn’t even know he was doing it…

    And I just don’t get how he could be a man who sucks me dry…he does seem so wonderful…but when i step back and look at the big picture…it’s not working for me…

    And I have this horrible problem…I cannot possibly fathom right now making love to any other man…I just want to make love to him…I want the REAL relationship with him, but I don’t think he’s ever going to change, and if he is it will be because I set him free…

    Oh god. I feel it…so incredibly much…the grieving process…it’s happening and I can’t stop it now…I’m starting to cry it out…

    But my last breakup prepared me for this possibly…I felt so free, and maybe he will feel free too, maybe better, maybe he might even let me date him again, but I don’t know…

    I hope if I do this, that there’s a better man out there and that I will meet him…

    But also if I choose therapy I hope it works…we will see.



  128.  #128Labbit on January 2, 2015 at 5:41 am

    63 Azure Blu — Thank you, what a beautiful visualization this is! I love the beach too…ohhhh I want to be there right now.

    66 Dominque — This is exactly what I needed to read, thank you! And thanks Indigo for your response that prompted the link. I can tell this is where my work is right now.

    119 Mandy — Echoing Indigo, YAY YOU. Your heart is screaming at you to go get what you want and I am glad you are listening to it. While you are building up your confidence, I wouldn’t wait to start CDing. Even if it’s not proper dates yet just get yourself out there flirting with men so you can feel the difference between being treated like the Prize you are and the situation you are in now. I know that you’ve CD’ed some in the past…free yourself of any pressure you might feel…just stay in the moment, don’t worry about how things may turn out and what you’ve done in the past…lots of love to you.



  129.  #129Labbit on January 2, 2015 at 5:47 am

    101 Andrea — Wow, you have wayyy more patience than I would in that situation. I have a super low tolerance for people who try to guilt me into doing anything, and if a man called me up crying saying what you’re describing I’d be so turned off my libido might fall through the floor.

    Personally, I wouldn’t even bother with feeling messages with this man because he’ll just twist them and use them as fodder to further guilt you. I’d cease contact with him. Let him call, leave you a few weepy messages if he must, eventually he’ll get the message. I would also definitely stop accepting any kind of gifts from him, even though I completely get that they were sometimes in times of need, because when you allow him to give to you like that you’re feeding his attachment in an unhealthy way for both of you.

    I wouldn’t be afraid of letting this man or any man that doesn’t treat you right go, because he’s dragging down your vibration. You want your vibe as high as possible so you can attract the kind of man you WANT. Let him go and clear energetic space for good men to take his place. 🙂



  130.  #130sophie on January 2, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Jut read through and yes, Mandy (!) – wow! That’s what I was thinking when I read your post – wow! What a turn around and a self empowering on too. I love it and I love what Indigo wrote to you. I agree with her, it was making me think about my situation with B as I was reading it too. And when I read back on some of my posts from last year (which I did recently) I felt so innocent. Like Indigo says about you, I kept trying and believing and trying and believing and he ran rings around me really and I felt unhappy for months and I deserved so so so so so so so much more. What ever it takes for you to feel happy, I hope you find it xxx

    Linda – I’ve really missed you. I feel happy to hear your voice and so pleased about the barn outcome – yay! and…that you have found a place of contentment with your life.

    I feel proud of myself today. NYE I went out to the party and it all felt okay – infact it was lovely, there were fireworks on the beach and at first I had a girl crew to hang out with and then they went to another party and I had a guy crew to hang out with. My crush toxic man was just as evasive as he has been since xmas. I have absolutely no idea what occurred to create this turn around in him but that’s it, he’s evasive and it feels uncomfortable and embarrassing. He gave me a nice new year hug then after that every single time he saw me he made a beeline in an opposite direction. I saw him do it. I just let him get on with it. I didn’t like it but whatever is going on with him is his problem not mine. Again, I saw him earlier in a regular bar and he said hello then pretty much sat with his back to me as if I didn’t exist.

    Right toxic man – it is now 2015 and I have no time or energy for this b’shit so in honour of myself I am not going to remain in an environment where I feel uncomfortable. I have booked myself into different accommodation at another beach ten minutes down the road – new people, no toxic man. And,I’ve arranged my visa to leave Cambodia and go back to Thailand without a backwards glance. I’m doing it girlfriends 🙂 I am moving away from the toxicity.

    I spent a lovely evening last night talking to a gentle, kind young English man, then another gentle, kind American man, then this evening with a Swedish man and his children and was brought drinks by a slovak man – there is absolutely no need for me to want the attentions of toxic man, or to try to fathom his sudden change in behaviours. I’llleave him to it – hooray me!



  131.  #131sophie on January 2, 2015 at 6:41 am

    “You want your vibe as high as possible so you can attract the kind of man you WANT. Let him go and clear energetic space for good men to take his place. :)”

    Love this Labbitt – that’s what I’m working on right now …and it’s not just toxic man,it’s all the negative energies…I don’t need them in my life…moving further and further away



  132.  #132Tee on January 2, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Hello Mandy and Rad,

    I know you’re both trying to spare me any painful future trials and tribulations with this man.

    I need to really think about what it is that I’m truly after with him. Yes , the drinking gets on my nerves because it seems unnecessarily excessive however, whenever we argue and I find that I’ve really gotten under his skin….I notice that the added attention brought on by the arguing makes me happy. I sit and see how many times he’ll call &/or text me. I know it’s stupid.

    I don’t enjoy the arguing but the attention that I get from it. That’s when I feel loved, important, etc. We talked this morning and he stated (as I knew he would) that he always tells me where he’s going, he doesn’t do anything wrong when he’s out, how I’m on my phone way too much instead of interacting with him, how I barely talk to him when he’s there, how I don’t initiate sex so he watches porn at times, etc.

    It’s easy to say he’s deflecting and/or trying to make me somewhat responsible for his drinking, but there’s truth in his words.

    I’m not good at intimacy but I can learn. :/
    Sometimes I feel like I just want attention from him. I feel like I have no clue what I want or what I’m doing. He said this to me the other day too, that he doesn’t know what I wanna do or not do, etc

    So I guess it’s the blind leading the blind.



  133.  #133Andrea on January 2, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Thank you Indigo and Labbit. I feel newly inspired. I feel validated. I CAN survive with out the “gifts” this man offers. I feel ready to untether those strings, those attachments, what ever they might have been, that had me feeling the need to stay connected to him. Guilt, that anxiety feeling of “If I cut him off, then someone I care about might cut me off.” I don’t know where that idea came from, but I’m almost scared to “be mean” or make any one else suffer, because I don’t want to suffer at the hands of someone else. (is that ridiculous?)

    I feel ready to take this step!! And inspired MANDY!! By you. Hooray!!



  134.  #134Tee on January 2, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Hello Mandy and Rad,

    I know you’re both trying to spare me any painful future trials and tribulations with this man.

    I need to really think about what it is that I’m truly after with him. Yes , the drinking gets on my nerves because it seems unnecessarily excessive however, whenever we argue and I find that I’ve really gotten under his skin….I notice that the added attention brought on by the arguing makes me happy. I sit and see how many times he’ll call &/or text me. I know it’s stupid.

    I don’t enjoy the arguing but the attention that I get from it. That’s when I feel loved, important, etc. We talked this morning and he stated (as I knew he would) that he always tells me where he’s going, he doesn’t do anything wrong when he’s out, how I’m on my phone way too much instead of interacting with him, how I barely talk to him when he’s there, how I don’t initiate sex so he watches porn at times, etc.

    It’s easy to say he’s deflecting and/or trying to make me somewhat responsible for his drinking, but there’s truth in his words.

    I’m not good at intimacy but I can learn. :/

    Sometimes I feel like I just want attention from him. I feel like I have no clue what I want or what I’m doing. He said this to me the other day too, that he doesn’t know what I wanna do or not do, etc

    So I guess it’s the blind leading the blind.



  135.  #135Gear on January 2, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Andrea 129, horay! I say Amen to let him go! Good for you to make that decision.



  136.  #136Labbit on January 2, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Andrea, it’s not ridiculous at all. I used to have the same belief…or fear really I suppose that if I didn’t treat everyone around me like gold, karma or God or somebody was going to make sure that I suffered as a result.

    I’ve since learned that the Universe is abundance and there’s plenty of ANYTHING I could ever want to go around. If I get that doesn’t mean someone else has to go without — when I learned this, it was a huge relief to me!! There is no need to sacrifice and self-abnegate and suppress your own desires or needs because someone else wants or needs too. We can all have what we want and sometimes taking care of me the best way possible means saying no.

    Of course we should treat others as we would want to be treated but somewhere along the way I’d warped that message and turned myself into a martyr. Now I know there is no need to do that. God (or the Universe, our Higher Selves, or whatever higher power you believe in/don’t believe in) is not keeping score like that. The only wish of our Higher Power is for us to THRIVE. And it will support us in any way we ask to make that happen.



  137.  #137Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    Andrea, Sophie, Labbit –

    Thank you a thousand times ladies – I feel SO heard…and I genuinely feel a swell in my heart hearing I have inspired you and that it feels empowering to you, and that you feel me……thank you dear Sirens…it means the world to me right now…love to you…you Sirens mean the world to me right now…you are my solace, my support, my safe place….you don’t know how much this means to me…I love the Sirens, I truly truly love them…THANK you for listening to me…you have no idea what it means…it really means the difference between me feeling I’m on the right track and me feeling just helpless and confused.

    Labbit, I FULLY plan on continuing to CD even if it is weird…I have my SirenCD who I like a lot, and there are always men who’s radar I TOTALLY show up on…I fully agree with you there. I can’t let myself sit around and feel bad for myself, it will just bring down the rest of my life/stuff and the people around me and although it’s good to sitwith a feeling for a little while, I need to reward myself for making one of the toughest decisions I’ve made yet, save for not having a child.

    I am just feeling incredibly depressed and downtrodden because I have to lose J. I love him so much but sometimes love just isn’t enough. I need a REAL relationship and I won’t get one from him, I don’t think he will ever change unless it comes from him. He said he wants to see a psychiatrist but like I said I think it’s too late. I almost want J to stay my roommate because I like living with him so much but we only have one bedroom so that wouldn’t work…he’s got to leave…

    Also I feel awfully disappointed in myself. I’ve been following Rori for three years and I put myself in a situation where I’m taking table scraps for affection, and I knew not to…I knew well enough not to but did anyway.

    I almost feel sheepish in front of everyone right now because I allowed myself table scraps…like I was a dog or something. Jeez.

    I am the yes man a lot, the nice one, the one who says okay or that’s okay because I don’t want to trouble anyone.
    The nice girl. That’s me. I need to stop being afraid of saying no, I need advance notice, or no, I don’t feel good about that, or no, I would rather keep my options open until someone basically gives me an offer i can’t refuse, the whole package.
    I didn’t aim high enough when I decided I wanted J. It was very physical…the reason why I wanted him. I am very sexual and I think he’s so hot and when I get stuck on his hotness I am stuck like I’m in quicksand.

    Also, I need to open up to CD’s who’s energy come towards me even though it freaks me the HELL out. I have serious fear of intimacy myself and need to work it out…I didn’t know it until now so at least I learned something about myself in this process. J also helped me get through college and out of my parent’s house so it was not in vain. I believe he is a sweet soul, and that this is not his fault, and I want to stay in his life…he really is a beautiful soul. He is just toxic…

    Okay gals…here’s to strength and HOPE…and believe you me…if I want something bad enough it is destined to happen, that is one thing I really know well about myself…

    I will find my way, I can go the distance…



  138.  #138Mandy on January 2, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    PS – Dominique –

    I feel it’s incredibly important for me to tell you, you being my personal coach for so long, I want you to know, we have NOT failed here….we have learned, and you have helped me LOVE my experience, even if it didn’t lead to full-on trust, intimacy and commitment with him which is not our faults, because he is actually very psychologically toxic/ill, he has anorexic behavior of food and sex and anything he would have an appetite for, and needs professional help, a psychologist, it is just out of our control, and it is what it is…

    But now I can take the knowledge/experience you’ve given to me and work on me…MY fear of intimacy…I have an incredible amount of trust in you because of the issues I deal with personally, and I believe you have definitely helped me reach my enlightenment and I will continue to have your coaching, especially since I continue to have my own insecurity crop up every now and again and need to remind myself not to fall back into my old ways!

    I have had such breakthroughs using your techniques that I will continue to use them and continue to have “check ups” with you.

    Point being, dearest Dominique, the coaching has not been in vain, and I will continue to ask for it 🙂



  139.  #139Beloved on January 2, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Mandy – Whew! I feel so relieved and happy for you!
    So many times, I felt I could totally relate to your situation (I was in poly relationships for 12 years!) and I also knew you were getting coaching, and when I was in a similar place, nobody could have told me anything, I had to learn through experience and be totally emotionally finished with my ex before I could move on and love again.
    Brava, lovely siren! I know it isn’t easy and isn’t going to feel great as you transition. I applaud your courage!
    Big hugs to you!



  140.  #140Dominique on January 2, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Mandy – sweet Mandy – I want you to know that we have all been in this position most likely; I most certainly have, and it’s so not something to feel sheepish over though I understand perfectly why you might. I too accepted less than crumbs and for a very long time.

    You needed to stay with him, as you learned and grew, healed and started to blossom in order to really, really own with all you have that it’s time to move on. You needed to see this through, to gain the clarity you have to understand that though he might have some lovely qualities, he’s not the relationship you’ve been dreaming of. You weren’t ready any sooner to say enough is enough yet until now, and this is so beautiful.

    Our work together has been very productive even if this man turned out not to be your forever man. Your transformation has been a sight to behold.

    Much love to you.

    xxoo



  141.  #141Radlove on January 2, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Hi Dominique!

    I love you!



  142.  #142Gear on January 2, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Sirens and coaches,

    I just had dinner with B and I told him at the end of the dinner that “I want to tell you something, that I feel perplexed. I feel that you are a very nice person, and you have treated so well. But I don’t feel any romantic feelings.”

    He was surprised. And he said it.

    Today whole day I had been wanting to cancel the date with him. But he lost his new phone the night before NYE(he had setup the date with me over email). I could reach out to him. Due to the fact that we had known each other five years ago, and due to the fact that he has been treating me well. I didn’t just want to send an email.

    Today, I was back and forth, wanted to cancels the date(he had left his office phone number in email.) but finally I dragged my feet to the date.

    It was a upscale sushi restaurant. We sat down had a nice dinner and talk.

    After I announced that I didn’t have romantic feelings for him, he asked me why. He said he felt magic on Xmas Eve. He had feelings for me. he thought I enjoyed the time with him. I said, “yes, I enjoyed the time with you, you are a good friend.”

    I said, “I feel bad to tell you this. But I also feel bad if I don’t tell you this. I want to be trasparent.” He asked me “you must have a lot of things going on in your mind, but you are quiet.” I said,”I feel awkward.” He didn’t say anything…

    He said, we can still do stuff together…I said, sure, but I’d let you know where I am at.

    When bill came, I took out my credit card, asked him, “do you want to split the bill?” He said, “No, that’s OK.”

    I sat on my soup, sat through those awkward moments. At least I was very clear of what I was going through. A year and half a ago, another guy, the one 6’3-4″ called me after three dates to set up next date, I turned him down over the phone. I didn’t know how to communicate, and I said, I was not interested in movie. He was also a acquaintance friend for year before we ran into each and he asked me out. I finally saw him again at a common friends circle and invited him to my home NYD for party. He came, along with other friends, and he still treats me nicely. I felt better to have him as my guest. Because he was such a nice gentleman and treated me so well.

    By the way, everybody (six single men and six single women) all loved the party. I got feedback said, some of them went to a few things during Xmas, but none was like the party I hosted yesterday. I think I we as very comfortable with myself, shared my joyful feelings, and happy in their presence meant a lot.

    Any feedback about my date tonight? Any feedback or critique?



  143.  #143Gear on January 2, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    Oh, at the beginning of the dinner he asked me what I did on NYE, I responded then he asked me what I did on NYD? I didn’t like that at all. But I answered it truthfully, but briefly. “I was with friends, and having fun.”



  144.  #144Gear on January 2, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    I am feeling awful now. As I don’t have strong suitors now.



  145.  #145Liquid Light on January 2, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    I have a date tomorrow. He asked if I could drive to his place and then he would drive us to the event. I feel like he’s trying to get me over to his place again. I’m feeling uncomfortable and agitated. I think I’m going to tell him tomorrow that I forgot that I’m low on gas and ask if he could pick me up. It’s a lie but I’m not sure what else to do. I feel like its a power struggle and manipulative scheme to get me home alone. Thoughts? How would you handle this?



  146.  #146a woman on January 3, 2015 at 4:35 am

    Firstly girls I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding my question about my co-worker.

    Secondly, I lately re-watched Rori’s “Targeting Mr. Right” program and I’m seriously working on my triggers now. I want to share something important I observed.

    One of my biggest triggers is a 6 year old girl in my family which I will call Maria here… I get annoyed by her kindness which is topped with extra sweetness, neediness, approval seeking and her squeaky voice. She triggers anger and avoidance in me. I avoid her at all costs. Then it also triggers guilt and shame in me about being so mean to a little girl. And I love her! I love her loads, I just don’t like her if that makes sense.
    So I started wondering why…And I think I got the answer: I see in her the way I used to be as a kid, and teenage years, and even very early twenties… I see the girl who thought she has to be sweet and so nice and to please people all the time. She felt guilty for everything, even being on this planet. She was also needy and was seeking approval from others. She was letting others determinate who she is and who she’s not. That was until I changed!.. now people think being confident is a natural gift for me. I get told all the time WOW, you are so confident, I wish I was like you, etc. I guess I’m still ashamed of the way I was before, or even guilty about the way I changed and not taking crap anymore. I buried the past me somewhere deep and want to avoid her, I don’t want to have anything to do with her anymore.

    Maria on the other hand resembles her and bring those feelings on the surface, which I never realized until now. So is this Maria’s message for me: I still have issues with the part of me I tried to hide? Probably yes. But what do I do?… And I think I got the answer for this as well: I simply embrace Maria, embrace my nasty voice and be proud of the way I was before! I will not avoid Maria anymore, I will totally embrace her, will fall in love even with her squeaky voice. I will accept and love her for who she is NOW. I don’t think anyone loved me for who I am back then and she is pretty much the same situation I was at that time.

    I think this will be a very powerful experiment and if I unfold this stuff, let it come up, embrace it and then let go, it will change my life. The 6 good E’s will come in handy. Will see what happens…

    Love,

    a woman x



  147.  #147a woman on January 3, 2015 at 4:53 am

    Gear, I totally get you!!! It was difficult for me to go on dates with guys I didn’t feel anything romantic for. Felt guilty for “spending” their money. Felt bad about myself. Sometimes felt like a “slut”. Felt different icky feelings. Couldn’t bare the thought of being in their company again, so very often I would call it off with a huge feeling of guilt on my chest. Until I re-watched targeting Mr. Right program. My mindset totally changed. I understood that those feelings are just my “old stuff”. I got more in my “Diva” mode. I don’t feel obligated to like a guy to go out on a date with, and going on more dates with them even if I still don’t feel the spark.. I look for the messages instead! It takes a lot of practice though. I don’t even feel guilty if I really have to turn a guy down. Without any awkward moments, I just do it easily. Hard to describe but it feels amazing and powerful. I really recommend the “Targeting Mr. Right” program, and really pay attention to what Rori is saying there and do the tools 24/7 until it “clicks”. I definitely didn’t get this from the first time I watched it a year or so ago



  148.  #148Gear on January 3, 2015 at 5:03 am

    A woman 141
    I like your post. I can feel how detail you captured your emotions and the why. Good practice! I am totally with you in you caught your feeling for the little girl, and how you were agitated, and why you were triggered, good homework in talking to the nasty voice.

    Xo



  149.  #149Gear on January 3, 2015 at 5:26 am

    A woman 142
    Thank you for your empathy! I did go through “Targeting the right man” a number of times. I got over the guilty feeling, which was the reason I chose to practice with him. I did have fun, and enjoyed the moment.

    What made me call it quit was on 3 rd date, last Saturday, he turned me off big time. 1st, he moaned a few times, like when he was driving me home, and when he was sitting in my couch. Most unacceptable to me he wanted me to kiss him. He we as sitting in my couch, leaned towards me(I was sick that day, but that’s irrelevant ). I didn’t respond. Just said I am feeling tired, feeling wanting to take a nap.
    When he left, we hugged briefly, he kissed on my cheek. I didn’t kiss back, then he forced his cheek on my lips.

    I felt that was as far as I could bear, and I don’t want to risk it any more. I was never physically attracted to him. He is short, and smaller than me. And not good looking. After getting to know him, I found little common interest with him, I have so many interests, hobbies, he just like to go happy hours, watch football and drink occasionally. Our dates were all dinner, he was generous in paying the bills, but from what I know in last few dates, he didn’t quite get his finance established or afford the housing, etc, like mine, that made me turned off. Enough he can pay for dates, I didn’t feel he could afford the life that I am comfortable with and have lived in last 15 years.

    With the dread that he would attempt to kiss me again, which made me feel yucky, I thought I wanted to call it off.

    I felt good that I went to sit on my soup. Yes, I do need more practice. The turning-him-down did make me feel bad, as he has been very decent, and has clear mind, strong desire to get married, and making the effort to honor and date a woman. We just had too little juice to start with.

    He did mention last night, “yeah, you only get a free meal, nothing else.” I listened, felt something in what he was saying, but could bear with the moment without feeling icky about it. What he said was kind of true…



  150.  #150Victoria on January 3, 2015 at 5:45 am

    Lovely sirens,
    I was away for awhile, but I read and keep track of the stories here,
    So, here comes a riff from me.
    I hate leaning back. I hate it. It is the type of medicine you need to constantly take because the moment you miss a dose, you relapse…
    Every time I initiate I get a rejection. Will this ever come to an end? It drives me nuts.
    We spoke on the phone today… He is out of town visting relatives. I asked him would he call me again tomorrow. I know I should not but couldnt help it… He said he will be very busy tomorrow but will call me monday. So I am thinking, how much free time do you actually need to give me a call? Moron. He is stupid stupid stupid and I am twice more stupid to be putting myself in this situation. Clueless. Hopeless idiot. I will never get a fully happy relationship with this man…I just want to give up and cross him out. I feel anger steaming inside me. I also feel a bit better after venting. I do want to bite his head off. I am not my feminine goddessy self. I am a masculine energy travestite of a witch… male creatures, beware.



  151.  #151Gear on January 3, 2015 at 5:47 am

    A woman,142

    If nothing else, at least I practiced saying “good bye”? 🙂 without running away from the feelings. I get what you said to not feeling guilty about turning guys down. I definitely need to listen more of the program and practice more on this part…

    I am thinking, if he asks me out again, I would have no problem to go out with him as long as I am buying the plan he proposed. Is that right?

    Ha! Just thought to some guys that I did feel juice, I never turned them down even though sometimes I didn’t like their plan.

    This is another dilemma I have. Should I turn guys down if I don’t like their plan? Probably not, as long as they didn’t violate my boundary(and my rules) let the guy surprise me. Isn’t it?

    Any also I heard this saying, “knowing the difference between a good date and a good mate” also another saying, “the one you are looking for is not who you are going out with, but who you are coming home with.” Heck, why not both!
    But that’s totally off the topic of what I started this vent.



  152.  #152Gear on January 3, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Victoria 145, I heard your nasty voice is active big time and jumping up and down in your head. I would talk to the nasty voice before anything. Or it will run your life. RR had the script to talk to the nasty voice, I started to practice word for word two months ago when I first started knowing her and her program. It changes magically. I hope you will too.

    Hug,



  153.  #153Andrea on January 3, 2015 at 5:57 am

    Oh A Woman, there’s a little hiccup trigger for me. Even as I read your post I realized, Yep, that’s me.
    I feel obligated to like a guy if he gives the impression that he likes me. I feel obligated. Obligated.
    Ick.

    I had a great breakthrough this morning with Baby Daddy. He became homeless two days ago and has been sleeping on my couch.
    And I have been feeling claustrophobic, uncomfortable, irritable, frustrated, angry, used.
    This morning I asked him if it was a good time to talk. He said it was.
    I told him: I feel disappointed in myself. I feel like I handled this situation in the way I am used to “handling” situations. That is, I jump in and rescue. I judge that I know what a person needs and I offer it.. advice, a couch to sleep on, money, use of my phone, etc…
    I said, “You never even asked me if you could stay here. We didn’t even negotiate a time frame.”
    I just jumped in and offered. He of course accepted.
    And I, once more, am left feeling depleted and in a quagmire of ambiguity.
    I don’t want him staying with us.

    I realized glaringly that that is a huge huge habit of mine. That I try to read the other person and offer what I think they want before they tell me. Or “have” to ask me.

    Why? Why do I do that?

    One thing I realized about myself is that I don’t trust other people to simply ask for what they need because I don’t trust myself to simply ask for what I need. I manipulate, cajole, offer things and hope to get things in return.. etc… I work work work and hint hint hint and grump grump grump.
    I don’t just ask. I feel this. I don’t want this. I do want this.

    Another thing I keep finding myself doing is getting into other people’s business. As though I can run your world and your emotions and your stuff better than you can.

    I realized that my offering Baby Daddy a couch was really me saying, “I don’t trust you enough to take care of your own lodging. I’m gonna take that task over for you cause I know better.”

    I feel grateful for him, once more, for being in my face and allowing me to work through all this stuff and see it right now.
    The talk went well. I still get this anxious catch in my chest when I think about him. I wish the “problem” was solved and he was in a good situation so that I could stop worrying about it. Then I realize… old pattern. He’s 53 years old, able bodied. The problem is ME WORRYING. I need to let it go. Me worrying is what’s causing Me all the stress.
    Once more, it’s not really about him.
    He can take care of himself and I need to stop judging him and allow him to be homeless because that’s what it looks like he wants right now according to the choices that he has made. So I want to stop thinking that him being homeless is so horrible. It’s his choice. I want to allow him to have his choice.



  154.  #154Victoria on January 3, 2015 at 6:08 am

    Gear,
    Would you share with me how you talk to the nasty voice.
    I need help. I am so grumpy ever since I talked to him… I feel like I am all flushed inside the skin of my face. Angrrrry.



  155.  #155a woman on January 3, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Gear, can relate here too. I turned a guy down very recently because his communication skills were way too bad, I found him too boring, no sense of humor. I learned that boring people trigger me to shut down. I went on 5 dates with him, which were great, he was nice, payed for absolutely everything, he was showering me with compliments and it was a nice experience. And that was it, just an experience I needed in order to grow.

    On the 4th date I let him know that I feel bored, need more communication. On the 5th date nothing seemed to be improving and I felt even more bored even though I was staying open. Then I let him know that I liked him but I won’t be available to see him anymore. The lesson I got from him again, he was my own reflection. At the time I met him I was boring and shut down myself. During the last 2 months I’ve gone out of that “emotional neighborhood” but he stayed there and I naturally felt turned off. But at times I needed him, he helped me to get out of that place, he was a part of that process.

    It’s very important to look for the messages men have for you, as it’s discussed in Targeting Mr Right and keep it as the goal: find out as much as possible about yourself rather than Mr Right

    When there is nothing more you can learn from a guy AND you have a replacement, that’s when you say your goodbyes



  156.  #156Gear on January 3, 2015 at 6:58 am

    NYD party and tentative Guy C who hasn’t asked me out.

    I had known C from a distance almost seven years from a church’s singles group. But really got to know him in last couple of years. I know he was always interested in me, but he never asked me out. And I was interested in him to some degree, since a year ago, but a few things he did or didn’t do turned me off.

    Recent a couple of months, he has been in touch more often,
    He even asked me out once a couple of months ago. 1st was for coffee, at that time, I just started RR’s programs(almost 2 months ago) I thought it would be good to practice. I met him for coffee, I expressed all the feeling messages, and I was leaning back, physically leaning back. After an hour, he got tired and told me, “you can go home to feel relaxed.” As I was expressing, “oh, I feel so relaxed.” I didn’t get offended stayed with my own mood.

    Then we got up from the chairs we walked outside, he didn’t intend to walk me to my car, but I pointed to my car, “here is my car.” Then he hugged me good bye. He stuck his face to mine. After 3 seconds, I said, “O, that feels too long.” He jumped away. And said, “see you later.”

    I felt icky that he was asking too much from me a woman, without making much effort.

    A couple of weeks later, he called me said to meet for coffee again. I said ok. He called me and wanted to pick me up. I let him, then he took me to a small cafeteria style Mediterranean restaurant. We had a late lunch. It was around 4pm.

    When come to paying, he called me over and asked me what I ordered. I thought he could have told cashier himself, as he set all of them, he did pay, but he made known that what I had ordered. I didn’t express any feeling at the moment, as I felt something off, but couldn’t quite put a finger on it. And I let it go.

    After that, I called him once, as he had told me he could refer one of his friends, contractor to me for demolish my kitchen. He picked up the call and told me he would call me later. He never called me back. That Friday, I went salsa dancing, and Lo, behold, he was there. He danced with me for some, and I met another guy I known for years, and he danced with me big time too, and I barely had time to sit down. I left before 11pm. And he called me and text me asked me if I yanked to go for dinner. I called back, thanked him and II already had dinner and I was ready to bed.

    He invited me to dance a couple of times, none of them feels like date, more like friends gathering. So I didn’t go. I have ton of places go for dancing myself.

    His contractor friend nd eventually called me and I then called him thanked him.

    a couple of week ago I was sick, and I called him up. He asked me if I needed anything, I learned to receive and told him pick up a celery for me. He then stopped by, picked up a few stuff for me. I felt so good that night, and hugged him when he came over. I had told him that I wanted to have a NYD party at my house. And he went ahead helped me invite some acquaints.

    Well, the party went so well. It turned out I knew everyone who came to my party, I also knew all the guy friends he brought over. We had fun, eating and played games.

    He had volunteered to come one hour earlier help me setup the party. He came in time, helped me with a few things and prepared temporary shoes for people to replace, as it was a raining soggy day, and I always let people change their shoes.

    But I felt he wanted more. He wanted to present us closer than what I wanted to. I had learned so many lessons from my past church singles group experience, I did not buy into that. I don’t want to present like a couple in public if the guy is not privately dating me. So it was a little awkward for a few moments, but then he stepped out for some time, and then things set off normal. We took group pictures, and we played games, and it was so much fun. He left the same time as everybody else.

    I felt so good about the time we spent together, his attentiveness and offering to help me, if he call after and ask me out, I would go out with him. If he strike iron while it’s hot, I probably would kiss him. But no, he has not call me for a date. Last night, I got his email, he sent out as a group leader to invite me and a few others who are not attending his singles group, for a social bowling event a few week down the road.

    See, this is what made me not feeling he is a potential. Instead of please me,one woman, he is calling attention to all women. This is another reason I don’t go to any singles groups now. It does not matter if you are a leader of 100 women or 1000 people. I don’t feel romantic or devoted to if you are not focusing on me, to get my attention to please me. I don’t mind if someone is a leader of other women, or big crowd, but what good that do to me if he is not privately dating me and getting private time with me?

    I always feel Guy C needs to bring out his A game if he wants to date me, but he never did. And it does not seem he wants to.

    What do you ladies think? Did I miss anything?



  157.  #157Gear on January 3, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Andrea, 148 good work!!! You caught a lot of things about yourself, and you have made progress in correcting them!!! Hooray!! I celebrate with you! I would pick up something from my channeling list, do something make me happy to celebrate it!!! It’s a milestone!!
    Xo



  158.  #158a woman on January 3, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Andrea, well done for realizing what is holding you back from being the real you- the feeling of obligation to be the nicest person around and please everybody before yourself. Sometimes people just share their problems without asking for help, but that’s what we sometimes perceive they do, and are afraid that if we don’t act on it they will not like us anymore and it will make us a horrible person. And of course it’s just the “lid” of our soup, there are profound reasons and feelings we are scared of why we choose to please others rather than ourselves.

    Once you’re in the habit of being the people pleaser it’s hard to let go. It took me long years, but I didn’t know about Rori back then. Luckily you do, and most of her tools are about stop giving to others, start giving to yourself and start receiving! To be honest I found out about Rori more than 3 years ago, but I didn’t get the most out of it because I wanted a quick fix. I took some notes, worked with some tools, then went to my old tricks, then came back to her, I thought if I watch the tape quickly I will get a quick fix without paying much attention to what she’s actually saying and meaning. Only very recently I am having a very serious approach and not just my love life but all areas of my life are starting to change for better, much better. Can’t praise Rori enough!



  159.  #159Gear on January 3, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Victoria 149,
    It was in RR’s ebook. I presume you have had it? If not It is on her homepage, $20, so well worthy it!! I learned so much from reading the book.
    She has so many exercises introduced in her ebook. I don’t quite remember all the details, but is remember i did every exercise she cut out. I spent days and days doing the homework, Coming up things to say to my nasty voice.i was almost 7/24 on that for a couple of weeks. And my world was never the same again.

    Regarding RIFF. I thought it had six steps. I posted one of mine in RR’s last thread. I think RIFF was in the program of “target the right man” but I might have remembered wrong. Anybody know for sure?

    I hope you could find the exercises.

    Xo



  160.  #160a woman on January 3, 2015 at 7:23 am

    RIFF is in “Targeting Mr Right” indeed x



  161.  #161Indigo on January 3, 2015 at 8:47 am

    Andrea 148,

    Oh I SO feel you on this. This comes I think from all the “should’s”. I relate to this because of being raised to be super-polite, and to put others’ needs before my own, and being empathic and sensitive just exacerbated this because I could feel other people’s problems and feelings and instinctively just wanted to smooth things over for them.

    I started turning it around because it just simply started to feel too bad – it made me too angry and irritable. I now consciously hold my energy back when I can feel what someone is feeling. I can offer a sympathetic ear, but I pay close attention to the little voice inside and all the little feelings in my gut, and if they start tugging at me and making me feel queasy or squirmy I know it is not good for me to jump in and help. In general I only like to help if I can do so cleanly… ie. with no hooks or catches or fine print. Simple gifts of help that do not compromise me are fine.

    Anyway, thank you for this: “He can take care of himself and I need to stop judging him and allow him to be homeless because that’s what it looks like he wants right now according to the choices that he has made. So I want to stop thinking that him being homeless is so horrible. It’s his choice. I want to allow him to have his choice.”

    I so saw myself in this comment. I’ve been thinking that I needed to rescue D from single-ness, and make it “ok” and “better” for him that he didn’t make good choices when it came to our relationship, that if I could just compromise myself it would make it ok that he didn’t step up. I can see now how wrong that thinking is. It is not for me to save him from his choices. If he makes those choices then he is also choosing the consequences, and I need to let him have his choices. I see now how leany forward it is to take that away from a man.

    So much about this became clear to me today while I was reading Leigha’s book, about how a man needs to step up or lose us, and we need to only accept good treatment and situations that feel good, and it is up to him to lead and to do those things.



  162.  #162Gear on January 3, 2015 at 10:00 am

    Indigo, 156,

    I applause for what you said. Well put! I learned so much from reading it!! I feel it’s so relevant to almost everyone, and any situation…



  163.  #163Labbit on January 3, 2015 at 10:12 am

    145 Victoria, darling Siren, you make me laugh as I’m reading this! Laughing because I have been right where you are and felt the same way and because it is so funny to see it written out!!! I love how in touch you are with your feelings…even though you may not like the feelings you’re having right now.

    I agree with Gear that this is Nasty Voices taking over. You see yourself as getting rejected here, but he didn’t reject you at all! In fact, he NEGOTIATED with you in saying he can’t call you today but can on Monday. Personally I’d take that as a win. 🙂

    Really, I don’t think you leaned forward very far at all, maybe a drop but so what? It’s OK to ask our men to give us what we want. He’s likely already forgotten about it…the more YOU beat yourself up over it though the more this behavior will stick with you. So let it go. Even if you feel like you cocked it up, I highly doubt you did. Monday will come and this will all be forgotten.



  164.  #164Dominique on January 3, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Radlove – 136 – Thank you sweetheart. You’ve made my day. <3

    xxoo



  165.  #165Dominique on January 3, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Gear – 137 – I think you handled this very, very well, great scripts. You were open and honest without blaming or making anyone wrong. I think you were brilliant. As long as you feel sure you gave this/him a good chance and as long as you feel sure that you feel nothing romantically, then you did what you felt you had to do.

    Know though that sometimes the deeply profoundly intimate connection most of us long for has to grow over time. Even romantic sparks, that something something we are raised to think “should” just be there, don’t necessarily have to be initially, and in fact sometimes, maybe often those instant attraction feelings we can feel are our addictions and not so good for us.

    I’ve been with K going on 13 years, and though there was an attraction, a something which was sexual, the true connection, the love, the deep intimacy, the mind, body, and heart union has been growing and blossoming throughout the years and continues to grow. And sex continues to be amazing, new things opening between us all the time.

    I don’t remember how long you’ve been dating B, and I trust you feel sure here, yet I also encourage you to simply remain open and curious – to any and all including him.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  166.  #166Dominique on January 3, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    a woman – 141 – I feel in awe. You so have this all figured out. You’re awesome.

    xxoo



  167.  #167Gear on January 3, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    Dominique 160
    Thank you for your validation.

    From my post 137,138 &144, I went out four dates total with B.

    I understand what you said, deep intimate connection grow over time, though I have never experienced those.
    B was a good candidate to practice. He was courageous enough to ask me out. He was serious in taking responsibilities to step up. And he picks the restaurants that I normally like.

    I have practiced unzip my heart, even though I had to face the difficult feelings, the soup. While I feel now that I might not have unzip my heart fully enough.

    When he said, “you don’t get anything other than a free meal?” I could have said, “I would feel guilty if I continue to see you, let you pay while I don’t feel romantic feelings.”
    That was actually one of the reasons,

    And I also feel turned off when he got physically close to me. My body got tense. I felt I had to make too much effort to manage the situation on the date and between the dates. I feel like work.

    So for this date, I could have stretched me a little further by expressing every bits of my feelings. It was hard because when I am physically turned off, I had to emotionally open-engage my feels and my heart. I was probably still trying to control the outcome?

    But I did much better than I used to.
    I also felt impressed with B’s response. Very decent.

    I got your last paragraph, yes, I will keep open andn curious to any man including him…



  168.  #168Dominique on January 3, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    Gear – This is a process, a life long journey which even those who have been walking this path of healing for a long time still fall down at times. You are on a great path and doing beautifully.

    xxoo



  169.  #169Indigo on January 3, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    Victoria 145,

    I wanted to say Yay you! for realizing that you feel angry and coming on here to vent rather than venting onto him. I am realizing that is a big part of this work – going off and handling our feelings whether it be taking some time out or talking to a friend or whatever – rather than exploding all over our man.

    I don’t think you leaned forward in a major way. Please don’t beat yourself up but be gentle with yourself. If you want some great help/inspiration for leaning back I find that both Leigha Lake and Stephanie Turner’s stuff on their websites is GREAT for this. Has helped me so much already.



  170.  #170Victoria on January 4, 2015 at 1:34 am

    Indigo,
    Thanks a lot, your validation means a lot to me. I did actually make good use of his absense… But you, I kind of wish to meet someone who has a different lesson to me than the one to be self sufficient and loving myself. I kind of wish to meet someone who will be looking to care for me, plan things for me, take me to places. Just for a change, just to get a taste of it… oh well.



  171.  #171Indigo on January 4, 2015 at 1:49 am

    Victoria,

    Oh I so hear you. And you will meet such a man. I think the thing is, not that we necessarily have to take care of ourselves and be self-sufficient all the time… I think in the right relationship we will not be having to do that excessively. I think the point is we just need to be ABLE to do it if we have to. When a man is away from you is one of those times.



  172.  #172Radlove on January 4, 2015 at 2:32 am

    Liquid Light,

    #140 – Hi, I like your name! It’s probably after the fact now, but I want to address your post anyway…You talked about saying you didn’t have enough gas to go to his house. Being a Siren is all about being deeply honest with sharing your heart, even in the face of displeasure. It’s about honoring who you are, what you want, and what you don’t want.

    So how did it turn out? One way you could handle it if you are in a similar situation again is like this…

    When he asks me to meet him at his house, I might say, “I feel a lil uncomfortable with that. Until I get to know a man, I like to just meet at our destination.”

    If it leads into a discussion about why, I would even say something like, “I don’t want to be pressured to have sex when I barely know you. What do you think?”

    I call it right out, and more than once, their interest has gone bye bye so fast! LOL! If they are only about sex, it weeds them out really well. Separates the gentlemen from the users.



  173.  #173forevertrue on January 4, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Recently after dating someone for two weeks, with daily 3-5 hrs texting and meeting, was told that he didn’t have that feeling for me. This person was exactly what I have been looking for, caring so attentive, funny, affectionate. Even though it was only 2 wks I can’t seem to get him out of my head. I believe really he is my Mr.Right how the heck do I get this man back? I have dated and have had long term relationships. I questioned him on was it a sexuality thing or what? Did not sleep with him, but had a intimate time with him and he definitely seemed turned on. I felt really led on if you could of seen all he said just didn’t seem to add up to him ending things. Any suggestions?
    thanks



  174.  #174Lotus on January 4, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    Lovely sirens, it’s been a while. Happy New Year to you all! I have been soaking in the thread. Great to hear Radlove and Sophie’s voices. Sophie – you are triumphant! Well done for breaking away from what doesn’t feel good and feeling more comfortable in letting the guy do his thing.

    I feel confused! A guy who turned me off big-time in the Summer who wanted a FWB has suddenly reappeared and wants to enjoy getting to know me, has told me he wants more as he realises meaningless sex leaves him feeling empty. I told him I’m not sure I could do FWB but have thought about having a lover. I find him very easy to talk to and turns out he’s thoughtful and sweet. We have built up a connection via text/ calls and I know it’s not a good thing to get too into, yet there has been that lure. We’re about to have a 2nd date.

    And now I feel confused, do I want more, can I handle more after still feeling a little bruised from DP? I don’t feel trusting of myself (my unconscious self?), how do I know these guys really mean what they say? I feel scared I will attract my husband again but in a different form, a difficult man in the end.

    I feel tired of dating, yet can’t resist the pull of guys. I feel curious about guys, I love experiencing how each guy leans forward. I feel hungry to know what message each guy will bring.

    I feel torn between wanting to be held and connect with a man, with wanting to be by myself on this path. I don’t want to give myself away, yet I also want to exchange physical affection with a man.

    Sirens, please talk to me, I have missed your voices. xoxo



  175.  #175Liquid Light on January 4, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Radlove 167, as it turns out, he ended up coming to pick me up after all so I never had to use my low on gas excuse. But the whole thing came up again at the end of our date when he was first trying to get me to come home with him and then when that didn’t work, he tried to invite himself up to my place. I’ve had an uneasy feeling about this guy from the first time I met him though so its not really a surprise that this issue keeps coming up over and over again with him. I feel that my gut is usually right and that if I have an uneasy feeling about someone, there’s usually a good reason for it.



  176.  #176Indigo on January 5, 2015 at 12:20 am

    Lotus 168,

    This is where I feel baby steps and taking it slow really has a lot of value. All the coaches I’ve read say that you do not have to move at a pace or do anything which is uncomfortable for you. For now, can you maybe just see this guy as practice? Practice to expressing your authentic feelings, practice setting your boundaries, practice opening up and yet not getting too invested. The idea of baby steps is one that helps me a lot. I don’t have to make any BIG decisions or leap right in, I can navigate these waters more gently, constantly asking myself what I want and how I feel in the moment.



  177.  #177Lotus on January 5, 2015 at 5:02 am

    Indigo 170
    Thank you so much for your response. Yes baby steps is good. 🙂

    What is strange about this situation is that he’s got all the things I was wanting with DP – daily contact, consistent energy, easy conversation, maturity, sexy talk, his own place and even a car (makes logistics easier!) – he’s pretty much transparent with what he wants – yet we’ve only met once due to logistics and holidays. He likes to ‘future text’ intimacy moves – like kissing my neck, waking up with me in the morning. Before he has been annoyed that I wouldn’t play with him with the texts and I have told him it doesn’t feel real yet, and I want the same thing with the right person. He texts often and whilst it’s really flattering, I feel worried that I could get used to that attention and grow to really like him and then he could go POOF! too like DP did. 🙁

    I have a tendency to jump ahead in my mind so I often lack a match between what I’m feeling and what I want to do. I know I feel uncomfortable about something, yet because I don’t want to let the situation down, whether that be my desires or a man’s.. I end up staying out of my comfort zone. But then I’ve always tried to stretch myself as an adult, I was an over-protected child, and I wouldn’t be the person I am now if I didn’t push myself.



  178.  #178Lotus on January 5, 2015 at 5:32 am

    I feel rejected with DP.. hopefully I’ll feel better getting this out although I have journalled and talked about it with a gf. Although talking with gf seems to make it worse sometimes, as she has this disappointed view of men which doesn’t help.

    I still feel a bit annoyed and puzzled, don’t understand how DP kept arranging to see me, offered to help with diy, wanted to come and see my hometown and meet my dad, did some future talk about trips, gave me a special birthday gift, and I believed we were falling for each other, everytime we kissed we literally would melt with each other, I never really felt that before.
    And the worse thing is that I only wanted a fling, but he gave me more and I felt somewhat left high and dry.
    I didn’t expect anything, but a bit of fun – I never asked for a rose garden yet he filled my garden with blooms – romantic affection – he really awakened a fire inside me – the chemicals really burned bright and yet depleted me after – i would sleep in the day after I saw him intimately – I knew it wasn’t sustainable due to several factors.

    How is it that we went from a dizzying couple of months, to the fade, to the last meet-up when he asked to go casual, and then to nothing – only a Christmas text exchange which I initiated. I feel angry that he hasn’t been in touch, I feel frustrated that I have been short-changed. I don’t like that he said he’d see me, and hasn’t made it happen. It feels so hard leaning back as I want to lure him back out, yet I know it would just end in the same way, with me wanting more and him not being able to give me more.
    I haven’t been able to resist stalking him on FB and even refrained from sending him a poetic text, as he has a thing for poetry too. Sometimes I think it’s a gift to feel elated, makes me feel human, and yet I wish I feel less doolally about him. My head knows it’s the right thing to not contact him yet the heart yearns for his romantic touch. I know I need to focus on the energies coming towards me yet it’s his energy I want.

    I know he’s a passing ship fading into the distance and I am chaining myself to siren island otherwise I would throw myself into the water with poems and expression for him. Oh man-boy, grow up and be gone – and return a man!



  179.  #179Radlove on January 5, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Liquid Light,

    RE: #169 – It sounds like he really is trying to move into sex fast. I have found only one exception to a man’s intention when he wants to come in my house or vice versa. I would confront it directly with feeling messages next time it comes up. I would practice feeling uncomfortable by going outside my comfort zone. Let’s say next time he says, “Hey, can I come in for a little bit?”

    I would say something like, “I feel really uncomfortable saying this, but I wonder what your motives are. I don’t want to jump into a sexual thing. What do you think?”

    Then let him respond. My guess is he will say no, not at all. Then he’ll drive away and you’ll never hear from him again. Let’s hope I’m too jaded. But that’s been my experience.

    Here’s another wording, “I’m sorry, I don’t bring men into my house until I have well established a comfort level with them. What do you think?”

    Or

    “I feel a lil weird saying this, but I wonder why you want to come in…”

    Then let him respond and take it from there. If a discussion opens, I would say something like, “Well, my experience has been if a man is eager to come in my house he is usually about getting involved sexually. I don’t want that when I don’t know a man well. What do you think?”

    Keep us updated how it goes! Remember, this is about getting fully in touch with your heart…and learning to express it softly but powerfully. Like Rori says, if it feels good, keep doing it. If it doesn’t feel good, stop doing it. That single sentence helps me make moment to moment decisions with men so much easier!

    It feels good to root toxic people from your life. It feels good to honor your heart and show love to yourself by doing what you know you really want and feel comfortable with. It feels good to state your truth whether or not a man likes it.



  180.  #180a woman on January 5, 2015 at 10:43 am

    Thank you Dominique xxx



  181.  #181Rori Raye on January 5, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Fearfuy – I’m handing this over to Dominique – if she doesn’t answer here right away…go to her website and ask her there!
    Just a bit from me:
    This is all about YOU PRACTICING!!! Tantric sex, masturbating slowly until you find out how to sink into yourself and relax yourself into orgasm…fantasizing…figuring it out on yur OWN!!! YOu can also get your own hand in there during sex and help out! That can be a turn-on in itself! Love, Rori



  182.  #182Dominique on January 5, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Fearful – I’m not sure if there’s a delay on the blog, but your post showed up again in my email. We’ve talked already. Let me know if I can help you further.

    xxoo



  183.  #183Gear on January 5, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Well, Rori and Sirens,
    I have a question. I remember Rori mentioned in her programs after a feeling message followed by a question, “what do you think?” Well, what if this question backfires?

    While on my 2nd date on Xmas Eve with B, he called me his girlfriend. (We were in the same professional club 2.5 out of the 4.5 years) I pitched in my no girlfriend speech right away. ” I don’t want to be anybody’s girlfriend….we are just getting to know each other, see if we are right for each other. For now I want to leave my options open.”

    He hummed. Then I asked him, “what do you think?” Gosh I wish I had not asked that question. He started to argue with me of his point of view, which is it’s a process, from beginning to getting married, it’s not one step, it’s a process, it must be gradually progressed, so girlfriend is there sooner or later.” Blah, blah. I said again, “no, I don’t want to be anybody’s girlfriend.” I protested again. I felt my concern/opinion/boundary was brushed off. Then he asked, “we are either friends or dating.” I felt exhausted to explain myself, if I had to make my speech three times in one date, I’d better leave. So I gave up arguing.

    Another time was the 4th date, when I called it off. I said, “I felt perplexed….I don’t feel romantic feelings for you.” He started to argue again. He said, he felt romantic, he felt attraction, he didn’t know what I was talking about. He said, I thought you enjoyed Xmas Eve. I said, “yes, I enjoyed the time spent with you, you are a good friend.” He said “I thought You were on the same page with me on Xmas Eve, what happene between Xmas Eve and now?”

    I was never on the same page as him.

    I felt interrogated even before I called it off. But I did not express my feeling. If I had expressed my feelings, sayin.”I feel pressured.” Or “I feel interrogated.” “What do you think?

    I am pretty sure he would have argued with me again, tell me how reasonable that he asked me those questions. (He had asked me before the NYE what I was going to do for NYE and NYD, and I had told him. And he asked me where did I have those friends beside the same club we had both belonged to. I didn’t like his question at all.)

    I do not want to argue at all. So what do I do if he argues and defend himself, brushed off that I felt interrogated? That’s why I didn’t let the conversation go there.

    I found this pretty general, when I ask “what do you think?” Backfires. If I knew how to respond the guy’s argument, that may help.



  184.  #184Dominique on January 5, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    Gear – A “what do you think” is not always necessary, and in the cases you cite, not needed at all. If you’re expressing your feelings, as you were here, nothing more needs to be added. Actually adding this in might seem to someone else that you feel unsure of your feelings, or it might also be seen as a challenge which looks like what happened here. Next time simply state your feelings, and leave it at that. He may or may not respond, yet a response is not what you’re looking for, You’re looking to be authentic, and convey your feelings to him.

    xxoo



  185.  #185Indigo on January 5, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    Gear 181,

    I agree with Dominique. Sometimes adding “what do you think?” after you’ve expressed your feelings looks like you’re inviting debate, as though you are open to having your mind changed. I am pretty sure this is how it seems to a guy if he does not “agree” with you on a topic, he will then try to change your mind, as with what happened with you.

    I think there are two kinds of feeling messages – the ones where you express a feeling which is more of a boundary – you are letting him know where you stand on something. The other is where you are inviting him to please you or make you happy or make it better, such as “I feel uncomfortable at this place” and that is where it would be fine to add “what do you think?”

    I know how you feel though, because practicing stating my feelings and not getting into an explanation/discussion about it is something I need to practice too. I agree with you it feels really bad when a guy tries to bring you around to not feeling the way you’ve said you do through debate.



  186.  #186Millie on January 6, 2015 at 12:28 am

    I love this post!!!!! Thank you Rori!!
    After engaging in a fantasy relationship myself, this all makes so much sense and I feel myself opening deeper in understanding of me.

    happy new year Sirens!



  187.  #187Gear on January 6, 2015 at 4:56 am

    Indigo 183 thank you for your comment. I feel helpful.

    Dominique 182 thank you for your feedback. It does make sense to me now. I am learning how to maneuver the conversation.
    What if after I expressed my feeling messages, the guy does not agree with me. Like the above case. In the last date, if I had expressed that “O, I am feeling interrogated.” Even though I stopped right there, for this person, I think he would still say, ” why you feel interrogated? It’s very normal to ask you what you did on NYE , what you did on NYD…”

    This problem was he had asked over the phone before, Nd I had told him. And also b/c the sequence and the way he asked me. He had never asked me about my social life, now he asked “what other friends you have besides the xxxclub?”

    It was the way he asked me. How do I respond to stay in my siren energy without get into the explaining??

    It’s very hard for me not to argue back and explain myself. If I didn’t explain back myself, I would have felt angry. But I still feel angry when I think about it. He, nd some other guys I dated in the paste, would assume who I am, without asking me at first few dates to find out, made assumption about me, that very much annoys me. This happens often.

    How do I respond if he argues about my feeling messages?



  188.  #188Gear on January 6, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Even though I say, “I feel pressured.” He may say, “don’t feel pressured.” Or “no one is pressuring you.” How do I handle that? When the man sees what he did was legitimate. He would protest his view and justify his stance, I met this a lot. Then what do I do?



  189.  #189Victoria on January 6, 2015 at 5:32 am

    Gear,
    I am not a great expert, but I have noticed the stance “it is not you, it’s me” that works well in such situations. If he says “don’t feel pressured” I would say something like “oh, you are very sweet and I greatly appreciate that you want to move things ahead quickly, it is just I have this peculirity that I need to move very slowly to feel comfortable, this is how I am”.
    I told a guy once that I get stomach cramps when a man I am not attracted to starts to hit very strongly on me. It was kind of true by the way. In a few days he got very actively pursuing me, and I told him point plank that i have my stomach cramps again, and he somehow understood and did not get mad. Hope that helps.



  190.  #190Dominique on January 6, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Gear – how about instead of – I feel interrogated – which feels a bit confrontational and invites a response like you got – I don’t feel comfortable with these questions. If he asks why, you can simply repeat yourself- I just don’t feel comfortable. – or you can try something like this – I don’t know why. It’s how I feel. If someone keeps trying to pressure you to answer is maybe needing a rethink in continuing to see him. xxoo



  191.  #191Gear on January 6, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    Dominique 188

    Thank you for your suggestion. I will try next time.

    Victoria 187,
    You made me laugh. That Sounds hilarious! Thank you for sharing with me! Maybe I can figure out something like that to use.
    Xo



  192.  #192Mandy on January 16, 2015 at 1:22 am

    Tess,
    aw, im sorry you feel that way. That feels awfully dark and lonely. Ever read about Rori’s tool of being the first domino, to show, not tell, how to do intimacy? That sounds uplifting. I feel like there’s a way to shake off all that anger towards each other but just if you think its right for you. I so get it though, the frustration and speaking out- love scripts helped me say I get you, I understand this, I miss you, I want this, I love this, things that are more bonding and less icky towards J. That was my attempt to find out how to deal with specifics inside my own situation.



  193.  #193Radlove on January 16, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Tee,

    Your post isn’t visible here, but I received it in my email. I have a tendency to go for negative attention, too. I don’t need to tell you that is unhealthy, right?

    It was so second nature to me in childhood, because my brothers were critical no matter what, so I intentionally annoyed them to get attention, since I knew I wouldn’t get any positive attention. I felt concerned as I saw it playing out in my adult relationships.

    In my 20s, I worked with mentally handicapped/emotionally disturbed kids at a residential school. One summer when I was lifeguarding, a cute, chubby 12 year old kept hanging on the lane lines in the pool. We asked him to get off the ropes repeatedly.

    All of a sudden, he said, “I WANT ATTENTION! My therapist told me to ask for it when I wanted attention, rather than doing things to get yelled at. And that’s why I’m hanging on the ropes. So I WANT ATTENTION!”

    It was as adorable as could be! And I felt more than happy to slip into the water with him on my breaks from lifeguarding and swim and talk with him! It struck me at a deep level, and that’s when I became aware that I did the same thing.

    Let’s heal this thing together, ok? When I feel ignored, I could start an argument or I could go kiss him on the neck and rub his back. If it is a relationship that you need to end, or at least give a wakeup call to, you could separate for a while. I am not a counselor, but if I were, that is what I would recommend for you. I know it isn’t convenient or cheap to move and live separately, but I have seen repeatedly in my own life how it makes it or breaks it. Either the relationship will go the way of “absence makes the heart grow fonder” or it will be “out of sight, out of mind.”

    Either way, your man will get the message that things are not ok in paradise! And that could open deeply honest dialogue, which is the goal of any healthy relationship…emphasis on HEALTHY!!!

    And we do long for a healthy relationship, right?



  194.  #194Tee on January 16, 2015 at 10:51 am

    #193, Radlove, thank you for your kind words and insight. I’m seeing now that this entire relationship needs to be healed. We met ad horny teenagers and on some levels, I wanted that bad because it was good and easy. Now it feels awkward to have to learn and train in being intimate. I feel I’ll equipped and nervous, shy and shaky.

    It kinda also feels cool too. Everyone wants, needs and deserves attention. I honestly didn’t realize that I needed attention, but I want My brand of attention which is different from his. I enjoy cuddles, watching movies, back rubs, etc. His brand of attention is more sexual it seems.

    I don’t know. I just will feel better once we no longer misunderstand and misinterpret each other anymore.



  195.  #195Chouchou on January 21, 2015 at 5:45 am

    “Whatever it is you’re wanting, desiring, chasing – it’s going to help you learn something.” is a huge idea, actually. I’ve been in the same sort of situation: in a long-term relationship with a real man and a dream one from https://kovla.com/datings/us/new-york-city i found during my boring visit to my old friends in the US. Even now I can figure out neither how that happened nor why I got this need to sing up… We met, never slept together though, and we kept messaging for another 2 year’s period before I got out of this. I guess, I wanted my romantic dating period back, since my real relationship has lasted for 5 years by that time. However bad and devastating was my online love story, it did bring me something useful, gave me backmy self-confidence and happiness