Maria and Arnold and Lying and Cheating and The Good Wife

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It’s taken me a while to process this and make connections.

What is it about deceit that’s almost worse than cheating in the first place?

I mean – truly – we ALL lie.

We lie to protect ourselves.

We say we lie to protect other people, and sometimes that’s true, perhaps – but mostly we lie to protect ourselves from what would happen if we told the truth.

And if your man lied about being with friends watching sports on TV when actually he was at a club with those friends – because he was afraid you’d be upset about him being at a club and what he might’ve been doing there…does that mean you’d end the relationship?

Or – if he had a fling with another woman and lied about it…would that be the end of a long marriage?

Or – if he had a child you didn’t know about…would that be the end?

Or – if he had a child you didn’t know about but that you KNEW and thought was someone else’s…would that end it?

How big does a lie have to be to end things?

Where does trust break down?

I thought I was really, really firm on this…no lies, no way.

And then I wonder….do I really want to leave my husband if he had a one-night fling with a woman on a business trip?

Do I really want to KNOW?

Do I really want to deal with knowing?

And though I’d really, really love to answer  “no lies, no way,”  I consider that not knowing might be nicer….

And then I realize I’m looking from here. I’m looking from an imaginary place – here – trying to imagine an imaginary thing that feels upsetting even to imagine.  And, though, perhaps I’d rather die never knowing (assuming it didn’t happen regularly and my husband was fantastic…) – I still, if I’m going with fantasy here…prefer the scenario in the movie “The Firm.”

Tom Cruise had a one-night fling (set up by villains so they could blackmail him later – and do I really want my husband to say No to some goddess on a beach in paradise when I’d like to not have to say No in the same situation?).

And then he told his wife so they couldn’t blackmail him.

And then there were adventures at the end of which they had a stronger bond and she decided to forgive him and be done with it.

I like that one better.

I still go with “no lies, no way.”

In other words – I want to know, and I want to have my options, and I want that information, and I want to make my own choices.

I think.

How much lying can you do in a relationship and still maintain intimacy?

That, to me, is the question.

And…I want to say none. Absolutely none. You can’t lie and have intimacy.

And yet – that’s pretty “high-handed” of me.

Do I really want to know everything, or do I just think I do?

For this one – the deceit, you’d think, would make you doubt Arnold and Maria’s level of intimacy.

And – that’s an assumption I’m not anywhere near qualified to make.

It just triggers me big time.

And yet – going so public like this – she has no choice but to leave.

I’m not sure I’d leave the house, though.  I like The Good Wife’s solution better – where she moved her husband into another apartment – lock, stock, box and barrel.

They say Arnold refused to leave, and so Maria moved herself and the kids into a hotel. Well…that’s enough to make me spitting mad.

But I have to assume that Maria got some good advice and knows what she’s doing. At least she’s making her own choices.

It sort of puts a new level to the word “humiliating.”

And that’s what lies do.

When women married to celebrated and famous men found out at the market check out reading “Star” and “The Enquirer” that their husbands were cheating on them (Sandra Bullock, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Edwards…so many others) – was it the long lies or the cheating that hurt worse?

For me – I have no business running my husband. If he wanted to be with another woman – we’d either work it out or we wouldn’t.  And I’d feel in some sort of control.

When someone cheats and then lies…we feel completely out of control. Completely not in control of our own lives and destinies. As though we’ve been living with blinders on in a box.

There’s a lot of crying and healing to be done, and with the bad, the truth is that there is always a lot of good, too.

Some people have open marriages so there’s no real cheating or lying. There’s just…others in the relationship. At least you get to be part of that agreement.


The thing is – you can’t protect yourself.  If you try to protect yourself, you shut down. You gather information, you make your best choice from moment to moment, you feel what you feel and expand your intuition to it’s fullest abilities, and you take what comes as it comes.

You trust yourself, you trust that you are loved, and you go with it.

It’s when we ignore what we feel and what we intuit, when we make excuses and choose the good over the bad that we have to know we’ve actually made choices. Not to say that Maria could have intuited anything if Arnold was such a great liar (or simply a great withholder of information) and able to live with lying or fuzziness about the truth  (like Bill Clinton, John Edwards, so many others….).

Righteousness doesn’t feel all that good, either.

Just talking about it feels better.

What do you feel?

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Rachel on May 21, 2011 at 8:10 am

    I would want to know. I want to know so that I could understand the decision making process that he had at the time and then make my own decisions. I wouldn’t want to live a lie, and find out later that all of the years we lived together it was all kept from me or lies. Shatters the image.

  2.  #2Lercomari on May 21, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Femininewoman, I decided I needed to take your advice to heart and start using the tools for my benefit. So this is a talk I had with Techie last night.I took it from my blog and I’m posting it here. I didn’t follow the tools perfectly, but I did pretty well and I’m so happy I did. 🙂

    This isn’t my first time encountering Rori’s tools. Over the past few months I have gathered enough from the blog and from the ebook to know that there’s a certain way to talk to men. So I used that to talk to Techie tonight. Techie is this guy who I am sort of dating…I’m at this in between stage of dating and being “official” with him, though it seems we’re closer to “official.”
    It was sort of an open book test…yes, I had the ebook open as I talked to him. I went to the part about expressing feelings and making negotiations. I had just watched 2012 the movie, which I’m sure Starz decided to air amid all the media hooplah about the world supposedly coming to an end on May 21st. Techie loves movies. Not only does he loves movies but he lives in L.A. Seeing the city being catastrophically destroyed via CGI made me miss him terribly. That morning I had told him in no uncertain terms that I felt really disappointed and angry that he stood me up yesterday. And I could tell he was regretful. But now, after the movie was over, I just wanted us to be okay again. I was chatting with him on Skype. And I said:

    I think with all the talk of the end of the world tomorrow and then seeing that movie for the first time..and also it was L.A getting destroyed…it made me feel like if it really were all coming to an end I don’t want to be mad at you. I don’t feel mad anymore. I just really want to see you and it makes me feel bad when I don’t get to.

    After typing that, I was full of anxiety and I literally covered my face because I was was so tense about what he would say in response. I come from a family that doesn’t express feelings well at all. Growing up, we were always told to stifle our arguments for the sake of “peace.” So actually saying what I really felt, it felt like a very bad thing to do. But lo and behold, he said:

    i understand. i know… it is my fault

    I can’t argue with that, I thought. But didn’t feel it was the right thing to actually say. 🙂 I asked him:

    Is it possible for us to see each other more often or are things just too busy for you?

    Again, covering my eyes, scolding myself for being so direct, loathing what he will say next, though he’s never ever really given me a reason to fear his words. He said:

    I am going through a hard time. I’m stressed and I’m trying to get things going.

    Me: okay. I can understand.

    I sighed inwardly. What did that mean for us? I switched back to the ebook and read the part on negotiations. The second part of the negotiation, where you tell him how feel, what you want or don’t want. Then ask him what he thinks. Oh dear God, I thought, that sounds like a board meeting! But not only that. I was afraid of him losing his temper with me. I felt afraid that he would be short with me for making him talk about these things. That’s what I was used to, men getting annoyed or angry with me for distracting them or for getting on their nerves somehow. But…well…here goes nothing. I asked:

    What do you think we should do?

    More anxiety, my stomach turning flips, my hands pressed over my eyes, and I could feel I was on the verge of tears. This went against everything in me. But I waited. I waited…and then he said:

    Just give me time. Things will get better.

    And that was it. I told him, “Okay.” And I said to myself, I need time too…which is true. Because I’m also going through my own transitional growing pains. Perhaps we are just both in a similar place in life, and it’s fortunate because I understand where he is coming from since I am right there with him. I have no problem giving him leeway when I need him to give me some too.
    After that, my whole body untensed, I rolled my head back and sighed. I nearly cried at how well that went…I had a visualization of all the rigidness inside of me melting and washing away like the ocean. I have no unresolved anger toward him that will later explode out of me, catch him off guard and cause him to shut down. We talked…we had a discussion about our relationship and his life, and I have hope that we can have a functioning relationship in the future. We communicated that to each other. And here is a man, who I am crazy about, who takes pleasure merely sitting at his laptop, watching me on the webcam and just knowing that I am there. I can communicate with him. I can tell him how I feel and he can tell me what he thinks and we can understand each other.
    It was amazing. It was practice. It was a huge step for me. I can express myself and not hold my feelings in…I can DO that. I never would have known.

  3.  #3MeMe on May 21, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Great post Rori, definitely gives me a lot to think about.

    I agree with “no lies, no way.” I want to have the choice to make a decision either way, whether or not to stay or go. I have been deceived and cheated on and admittedly I could have gotten over the cheating but the lies and the deception was the straw that broke the camels back. Reading this post I feel anger about the lies and the deception I have gotten through, but I also feel reassured that intuition is so dang important and we should trust oursleves. I also relate to “If you try to protect yourself, you shut down.” I feel like it can be so easy to shut down sometimes, even when that’s not what I want to do.

  4.  #4Virginia Feingold Clark on May 21, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Great post! What I take from all this is to never get complacent in your relationship. We are all human and to assume that “he would never cheat on me” or that “you would never cheat on him” is putting too much expectation on both of you. You can have the best intentions but sometimes life will throw you a curve ball. If you work at never taking your relationship or your man’s love for granted, hopefully you will never have to experience the pain of deceipt.

  5.  #5Ella on May 21, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Just a little reminder for me:

    “I am sorry you are still feeling like this and I feel uncomfortable talking about this. It would feel better to talk about something more cheerful.”

  6.  #6Ella on May 21, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Just want to say again THANKS to Rosa and also to JanJune for working through some stuff with me on the last thread.

    I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it and having the benefit of your previous experience in a similar situation Rosa.

    I feel so much better and clearer now AND I am detaching from any outcome and getting less ‘thinky’ around the whole situation.

    Thats not to say it is all suddenly easy, but it is a lot easier!

    And I am almost looking forward to stating my boundary and using my FMs and thus taking care of myself and saying No to something I don’t want (crumbs).

    This feels like MASSIVE progress.

    And I will continue to CD… and who knows what might happen there.

    I amy even put an online profile up on a couple of dating websites again later if I feel like it…

    Not sure though cus recently whenever I have thought about that it has just made me feel drained!

    I’ll see how I feel.

    And if not then just get out there, smile, be fab and see what comes my way.


    Yay for Sirens!

  7.  #7Ella on May 21, 2011 at 10:30 am

    I intend to be slim.

    I intend to eat healthily (mostly).

    I intend to cut down on sugar and white bread.

    I intend to continue to moderate and lessen my alcohol intake.

    I intend to feel mainly good and to be authentic.

    I intend ot get out there and date and practice, and let ‘him’ find me!

    I intend to make room in my life for him.

    I intend to continue building my businesses so that I can support myself and look after myself financially as well as emotionally.

    I intend to be a Siren.

    Yay for me!

  8.  #8T-Girl on May 21, 2011 at 10:40 am

    🙂 I am officially off the dating market…now to put my Rori tools into effect in a different way 🙂

  9.  #9Ella on May 21, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Congrats T Girl…

    And good luck!

    Do you have the commitment you want?


  10.  #10T-Girl on May 21, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Yes Ella! Right now it is still hard for me to believe that I found such a good one, a guy that has really stepped up. I am excited to see where it goes! And it is interesting to me to realize that he normally wouldn’t have been someone that I considered my type.

  11.  #11Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Ella, I feel good reading your post. I am curious – what does making room in our lives for ‘him’ look like?

  12.  #12T-Girl on May 21, 2011 at 11:00 am

    I have to add that yesterday I took the time to delete some old e-mails from guys I dated in the past and for some reason held onto. I also deleted some phone numbers off my cell phone. Maybe in a way that was making room for him?

  13.  #13Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 11:04 am

    T-girl, I bet that felt good. I delete old men contacts from time to time and i FINALLY threw out LI’s black sweater he left here. I was even wearing it sometimes=/. Had to let it go.

  14.  #14T-Girl on May 21, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Dorothea – when I was deleting them it was kind of weird…like I didn’t really want to let go? But I am reading “Calling in the One” and I decided that if I want to make room for my soulmate that I had to let them go. I had no idea what was in store me later that evening 🙂

    Glad you finally threw out the black sweater. A good step in the right direction.

  15.  #15Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 11:27 am

    I have some of his books too. They are good books, and I don’t want to throw them out. But I don’t want to keep them around. And I don’t want to call him to return them, because after he dumped me ON FACEBOOK he never called again lol.

  16.  #16Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 11:38 am

    I am packing today to move tomorrow. I have a new apartment. Yay fresh starts. Having a hard time getting started….overwhelmed by all the STUFF I own. Would like to take this opportunity to throw ‘clutter’ away, but my new apt is twice the size of my current place, so I’m having a hard time seeing much of anything as clutter now. Yet, I know it will be good for me.

    Feeling stumped and stuck

  17.  #17DE on May 21, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Awesome post Rori…I have contemplated over this dilemma as well…what is worse?

    One time affair…i would sure prefer never to find out…

    On going affair it’s deadly to the spirit…It is a secret parallel life that my partner is experiencing…and with secrecy there are lies and deceit…whether we know about the on going affair or not…we, women, feel it…the negative energy created by lies are projected on to us…and we often experience it as us feeling “crazy, weird, seeing things, neglected, not good enough, rejected…etc..”

    Yep…I strongly believe Maria knew…what she could not stand however, he making it public before she was ready to acknowledge once more the “Martyr” role…

  18.  #18Lercomari on May 21, 2011 at 12:52 pm


    Congrats on being off the market 🙂 Wishing you well!

  19.  #19Rosieta on May 21, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    humiliation is a hard one to stomach! It’s hard to face such public ridicule & to feel oneself a laughing stock. I support Maria’s decision to move herself & her kids out of the family home; who in her shoes could do otherwise- the world & his mother is talking about this. I am not a Hilary Clinton- type, though, I wish i was; when my husband (of 17 years) cheated on me- I withdrew completely from the marriage. I have been to hell & back- but it was only on my way back from hell that he got re-interested. He has soooooo since lived to regret it all. He is so apologetic; but it has all come a bit too late (he was with her publicly for 2.5 years & my kid had to put up with her too at family weddings & christmas times). What can I say, a switch got turned off inside me & reasoing with myself doesnt help at all; I have absolutely no idea how to turn that switch back on again & I am not sure that I care anymore. I am 40 my next b’day & I feel all the older, but all the wiser. I wish Maria the very best of luck. rx

  20.  #20Ella on May 21, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Oh I am feeling nervous in my tummy.

    Just reading Rori’s e-mail about voting for ourselves, and right now I know I am not… not really.

    I just don’t feel confident in myself today.

    When I look around me at the guys who like me, and the other women around them, I always think they will prefer the other women to me!

    I think ‘she is thinner, a lot thinner, and prettier than me, and probably cooler and more fun too! I bet she doesn’t get down in the dumps like I do. Her vibe is probably much better than mine.’


    I really want to change and make things good for myself. I have lost some weight.

    I am not fat… in fact I am shapely, but in my opinion I am too big and want to be thin like other girls I see.

    I always nearly do it, and then I have a bad day and eat loads.

    Even the alcohol thing, even though last night I was better and drank less I still ended up drinking too much (I realise it was more than I thought it was). Still better than usual at the weekend, but also still not what I was aiming for!!!

    Grrr, I just feel so less than today.

    I am working on my self esteem and I realise it is still totally tied in with how the men in my life treat me!

    I am not sure how to separate it out!

    I am very close to having my ideal life… well I have so many things I want, and usually I think I am quite attractive, but right now I just feel ugly.

    I look at my body and it is so flabby looking and white to me.

    Ok, this is no good at all.

    I do know how to love myself. And I do usually appreciate myself. My curves and my pretty curly hair and my smile.

    Maybe I can be a bit like Marolyn Monroe, she had curves. She wasn’t skinny, or tanned come to think of it, and she was sexy!

    Yes, that could feel better.

    Ok so I overate today.

    That is just one day. And I really want to start eating healthily again… properly.

    And sometimes in life it is difficult.

    Ok, I really want to treat myself well. That has got to be a good place to start. Purify my body and detox a bit. That will feel good.

    I think I am trying to avoid some feelings today.

    I am feeling low.

    That is the truth.

    I am feeling low and my self esteem took a hit last night when I accepted crumbs from housemate guy.

    Its ok lil Ella, just lost my horse for a minute. You know what to do and how to take care of you.

    Scared to go home in case she is there.

    But just go home hon.

    Have a nice evening, looking after yourself.

    Tomorrow we will exercise and then next week will be about eating really healthily again.

    This is your life, and your body.

    You can do this hon I promise! Live it for you, no-one else.

    Its totally about vibe and if you treat yourself well you will be beautiful. You ARE beautiful.

    Whatever else is going on with men its not personal to you, usually it is about them.

    Pay no mind what so ever.

    Focus wholly on the ones coming towards you who make you feel good and reserve your judgements of them, just feel and learn to recieve – it is going to be fine.

    Ok feeling is… a lil low… a lil sad.

    Frustrated, with self and situations… like when is my life going to finally be what I want it to be… ?

    Well never exactly. It will always just be life and have ups and downs and the thing is to learn how to make the most out of it, and feel good often.

    But its ok to feel down too.

    How can I shift this around?

    Maybe I will go upstairs, look in the mirror and just remember how lovely I am.

    Yep, I will flip this too.

    I am going to have the vibe I want and keep on with my lovely life…

    Yes I will.

    This is what I am doing. This is what I intend.

    I feel a lil anxious, and it is all going to be fine!

  21.  #21Ella on May 21, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Its truly amazing how taking crumbs, even for 1 day, can affect our self esteem.

    Be careful ladies, accept nothing less than being treated like a Siren!

    That is my plan from here.

    Hi-yup. That is me jumping back on my horse, who is a beautiful shiny black colour. We are going on our way!

  22.  #22Daria on May 21, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Wow lercomari! U did so well! You really surrendered. Wow u got this!

  23.  #23LonePlum on May 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    T-Girl 8 +10

    That feels good to read. I wish you luck and much love 🙂


  24.  #24Susan on May 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    @ Ella RE: post#20

    Ella wrote: “I think ‘she is thinner, a lot thinner, and prettier than me, and probably cooler and more fun too! I bet she doesn’t get down in the dumps like I do. Her vibe is probably much better than mine.’”

    I just got off the phone with my guy. We live in Texas and he is in California for his eldest girl’s college graduation. He told me that none of the women there can hold a candle to me because they are too skinny. I am telling you this because there are men who prefer heavier women. My guy is one of them. I’m sure there are more like him!

  25.  #25Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    all of this packing is killing me…i find so much stuff from my last guy who i dated the whole time i lived here… poems he wrote me, paintings, drawings. He loved me very much. I’m not sure why I saw our relationship as so problematic. My hindsight is rose colored. I found a painting he made me and i don’t want to throw it away.

    Blaming myself hardcore. I feel like I destroyed us with my unstable emotional behavior. Wish this was easier. Not sure what to do from here.

  26.  #26Ella on May 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm


    The blog feels quiet these days!

    Well I just got home after staying away for the evening. And guess what, other woman and her kids are staying the night!


    Ok… don’t really know how I feel.

    Numb, muddled, suprisingly ok!

    I don’t know. I feel a lot of fears… like what is this new situation going to bring? How will this affect me?

    I feel mistrustful of him, like he says he does not want a relationship and yet he is already getting very cosy with this new woman.

    I mean I am finding it hard not to judge and yet if it was me I don’t think I would be introducting my children so soon.

    But whatever.

    Mainly I feel a lil weird, like ‘why didn’t he choose me’ or what is really going on here?

    But I feel ok.

    And kinda relieved in some ways… like I don’t have to deal with it anymore. I can just be free to be me, and do what I want, date who I want and I can bring men back here if I want to.

    Yes do feel a bit triggered by the feeling that she is ringing his alarm not me… but who knows really what is going on.

    Everything can change on a dime and maybe they really want each other, whereas I am not too sure what I want… ie I do not feel too sure about him.

    So yeah,,, a lot going on.

  27.  #27Ella on May 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Susan re 24




  28.  #28Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Ella 26
    That is a lot going on!

  29.  #29Ella on May 21, 2011 at 5:09 pm


    Making room is like clearing space in your life for your man, so you are truly open and ready for him.

    Ie: having a double bed and clearing space in the wadrobe. Also having spare time so that you can actually fit in a relationship.

    In a way it is making a void that a man can fill.


  30.  #30Ella on May 21, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Dorothea re 28

    You said it!


  31.  #31Femininewoman on May 21, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    From Scott McKay

    Do you find women who’ll “contend” with you irresistibly intriguing?

    In fact, if they put up a fuss more often than not and/or willingly start arguments at the drop of a hat, is that flat out sexy to you?

    Why is it that we’re drawn to such women?

    I think most of us as guys aren’t so much thinking in terms of deserving mistreatment by a woman who’s a bit contentious as we are about being CHALLENGED by her.

    Truth be told, we’re sometimes less drawn to a more complacent and agreeable sort of woman because we are deathly afraid of being
    BORED by her.

    Meanwhile, a woman who’s unafraid to ignite some good old-fashioned conflict once in a while seems more EXCITING to hang out with, at least in our eyes.
    We may even refer to her as a “firecracker”.

    We rationalize that if she is more challenging and less compliant life will be a TON more interesting overall than if we ended up with a woman who could be best described as a “shrinking violet”.

    But despite our wildest fantasies, the REALITY of living with a such “challenging” woman only arises once we actually HAVE her in our lives.

    Sure, things may be “exciting” for a bit, but ultimately we might very well realize we’re nothing short of MISERABLE if we’re reduced to arguing with this chick and defending ourselves against her
    “challenges” all the time.

    I have to say I’ve been in long-term relationships with contentious women in the past and grew very frustrated sooner than later. I finally figured out that although I certainly don’t like to be in a boring relationship, having a woman who would “challenge” me in an argumentative way was NOT the best way to spice things up.

    Instead of relying on a contentious woman to make life more fun, why not actually go find a woman who LIKES TO HAVE FUN?

    Think about it. She can be interested in all sorts of outdoor activities, be blessed with an amazing sense of humor, have an unquestionable zest for life, be multi-talented, and even be ready to go see the world with you.

    But she can ALSO be a total sweetheart who goes about all of the above with a smile on her face almost all the time.

    She can rationally discuss with you what the next thrilling adventure the two of you should take together might be, and agree totally with whatever decisions you make with regard to it.

    And guess what? All of THOSE traits might not only make her downright fun to hang out with in public, they might ALSO make her every bit as much of a “firecracker” in the bedroom as a woman who
    argues with you all the time.

    A woman really can be a smiling, fun bundle of energy even as she knows how to rationally defend her position and assert her opinion…when necessary.

    That’s what having self-respect is all about, right?

    Be Good,

    Scot McKay

  32.  #32Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    17 DE. I so agree – we feel that something is off, even though we don’t know what it is. Great insights, DE.

  33.  #33Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Imo, if a man is gonna cheat, better to just be in an open relationship from the start. One dating coach recently said that he thinks marriage vows should be changed to something more realistic like, “I promise to tell you if/when I cheat.” That really triggered me! If this is the way things are headed, yeah, I’d rather have an open relationship so we’re on equal footing. If I have to accept him fooling around, then I want to do it too.

  34.  #34FlowerChild77 on May 21, 2011 at 7:06 pm


    I can so understand what you must be feeling in this situation. But the more I hear about it, the more it seems as though he isn’t very particular about who he “cozies up” with (sex or not, makes no difference.)

    If it were me, this would make him much less interesting and/or attractive.

    It’s hard when we’re down on ourselves and feeling like we need some outside source to make us feel better (validation from outside ourselves; a hug from a guy, sex, someone to notice us or flirt with us, etc.)—-but I’m convinced that CDing and raising our degree of difficulty IS the answer! 🙂

    I go through these feelings, too. I’m talking to myself, here, as well! 😉

    I think I’m probably older than you are–and it was a hard lesson to learn that meeting men in bars is usually a dead-end street. I live in a VERY small community and there aren’t a lot of places to go or to meet people and I just kind of fell into it.

    For many years that was my “comfort zone” and I was afraid to break out of it. Once I moved to a house where I couldn’t walk home from the bar I stopped drinking. It just wasn’t that important to me anymore…

    It was sad to see that some of my ‘friends’ kind of drifted away because, apparently, that was the only thing we had in common….but I could only see that in hindsight.

    Whenever I start feeling bad about not being in a relationship—I flip it—and remind myself that it also means I’M FREE!! And that’s a way better feeling than being “with” someone who confuses me and/or triggers me to feel bad about myself. (All that is SO exhausting…)

    And you are a beautiful Siren–FREE to go out and CD–whether it’s with yourself, upping your vibe and enjoying what life has to offer or with men on dates. It all works the same way for us…


  35.  #35Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    You know what’s sad? If I had never met WH, I would actually be kinda excited about this new guy. 🙁

  36.  #36FlowerChild77 on May 21, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Lucy…yes that sounds awful (“I promise to tell you when/if I cheat”)

    That kind of faithfulness is so important to me that it kept me in a 12+ year relationship. And I’ve been gone for over a year and he still hasn’t been with another woman. That ONE thing makes it really hard to just keep him on the back of my horse and keep riding. (Silly, I know. There were other issues, but I always felt so “safe” with him and that feeling of safety opened up a whole new world, sexually. I could have never ‘gone there’ if there were any doubt in my mind AT ALL that he would be intimate with another woman.) That part kind of ‘spoiled me.’

    I guess I need some of you Sirens to remind me that there ARE other decent men who don’t cheat. 😉

    Do any of you have Rori’s Heart Connection Tool Kit? Just curious about what you think and how it’s helped you.

  37.  #37Dorothea on May 21, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Lucy, 35
    that is an extremely insightful observation about yourself. maybe it’ll feel good to do something symbolic to let WH go. Something goddessy and ceremonial…

  38.  #38DE on May 21, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Lercomari #2:

    I felt touched reading the process of surrendering to your heart 🙂 I congratulate you from the bottom of my heart …and I promise u this is just the beginning of an amazing journey for yourself 🙂 Embrace your glorious beautiful self!!!!

    Warm hugs,

  39.  #39DE on May 21, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Lucy #32:

    Thank you dearly:) It feels very good to be understood 🙂

    Very warm hugs,

  40.  #40Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    hey DE 🙂 i saw on the other thread that you got the same spam email that i did! i feel better knowing that i wasn’t the only one…and it was the exact same one too..

    T Girl… who is this man??? 🙂 i go away for almost 3 weeks and you are off the market?? 😉 yay 🙂

    Ella (((hugs)))

    Lercomari….great job with expressing yourself…i feel happy that you noticed how you felt about yourself afterwards even if the outcome wasn’t anything…i think that’s key…that no matter what as long as we are expressing how we feel..we always feel better afterwards 🙂

  41.  #41Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    well…things are moving right along in my love life…i’ve still been doing all of Rori’s tools and it feels good and like second nature…i feel really good in this anxiety or drama and that feels refreshing..and i still feel supported and adored and cared for and like i’m the sexiest best thing that’s ever happened to him lol
    hotpilot said that he’s been waiting for me…so cute!! and he’s so sexy too!

    now i’m wanting to change careers! ive been thinking about this for the last week…

    i don’t want to be gone so long..i don’t want to camp out for weeks on end and feel dirty..i don’t want to spend 24 hrs a day with a 20man crew…i don’t want to feel anxiety and nervous about the safety of myself and my crew..i don’t want to work 16 hours a day

    i want to wake up and feel excited for my day…i want to wake up inside in a nice clean warm bed and have my coffee and take a shower and feel ready and refreshed for the day…i want to help women in some form..i want to become a doctor of holistic medicine.. acupuncture perhaps..or chiropractics? homeopathy?..and help with women and hormones and i want to live by the ocean (just throwing that in there) 🙂

    thanks universe for putting this into the best possible form for me 🙂

  42.  #42Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    about the post above…

    i felt sad hearing about their lives…it feels tragic to me

    i would want to know…my mom had a one time affair on my dad and kept it a secret for 8 years and it about killed regardless of if i’d want to know or not..once it’s happened it seems only more damage can be done by keeping it a secret…

  43.  #43Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Flowerchild77 @36

    i have the Tool kit and i love it…all of Rori’s stuff has helped me but i love the tool kit…i love all the imaginary/visionary the waterwheel..the horse, and all men wanting me, the row boat..things like that have really helped me to lean back and let the universe do it’s thing..hope that helps 🙂

  44.  #44kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    “i don’t want to be gone so long..i don’t want to camp out for weeks on end and feel dirty..i don’t want to spend 24 hrs a day with a 20man crew…i don’t want to feel anxiety and nervous about the safety of myself and my crew..i don’t want to work 16 hours a day”

    Why not? Gotta pay your dues if you wanna live by the ocean.

  45.  #45Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    hmmm…i disagree kaitlyn

  46.  #46Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Jilly and DE,

    RE: #40 – There is no way any spammers or scammers can get our email addresses from Rori’s website. I wonder if they come to the website from FB. Rori has a new FB page, “Have the Relationship You Want”.

    It is so easy to get names and email addresses from FB, which is why I am on there as a made up nickname instead of my real name. I was looking for a way to hide my email address on there, but I don’t see it. I think I might connect a more generic email address to myself there.

    All that to say I am sure it is more about FB than about Rori’s blog or site.

  47.  #47SummerBaby on May 21, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    jilly, good to see you…

    and I got the same spam as you and DE (hi DE).

    must be because we put emails out there for fb.

    guess I missed the rapture cuz I’m still here. lol 😉

    hugs to all,

  48.  #48kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:00 pm


    Just sayin’ all the successful people I know, for instance a successful photog I know, spent quite a while of assisting in brutal hours, forsaking comfort, and etc.

  49.  #49SummerBaby on May 21, 2011 at 10:02 pm


    anyone reading the posts on the blog for the time frame that we were trading addresses to add each other for FB could easily spam us.


  50.  #50Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Brenda..i don’t have any connection to Rori on FB…but i’m not too worried about it …just thought it was weird..i put my email address on here once…but ya i’ll be more aware and i’ll probably get a different email for certain situations 🙂

    i’ve been wanting to catch up on what’s been going on with everyone..but so far tonights the first night i’ve had myself to myself 😉 hope you are doing well! were you moving??

  51.  #51Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    Had an AMAZING performance this evening. It was recorded and I wore the gorgeous gown 🙂

    I feel so happy and pleased with myself.

    The men were moved and inspired by my performance today, and were attending to me all evening. Such pleasure 🙂 – Kneeling down to fix my dress, bringing me stuff… just love it! … and not at all stuff that they were obligated to do… just the way it was.

    I watched the video and thought – I need to thank my hands and love them more for the amazing stuff they can do. I feel so good knowing/ seeing that I have grown in my art form, which means I can grow more to where I want to be.

    The great thing is that it doesn’t even take that long to get better… it just does every time. So that feels good.

    The men are wonderful. I love receiving from them… I don’t want to make any conclusions about them just yet – as in relationship wise. That would feel like a limiting belief.

    I’m enjoying being cared for and feeling appreciated.

    I really, really wanted to CD when I was dating HAman. I didn’t want to get sucked in because he was stepping up. I felt afraid of settling and putting blinders on, no matter how well he was stepping up – I just did not feel ready for a relationship.

    I feel soooo happy that I’m CDing now. Exactly what I wanted. If anything, the experience of it all feels so good. All this practice and transforming into a Siren feels so rewarding. Gives me clarity on certain issues.

    I understand what Ella mentions about accepting a man’s crumbs. Sometimes, I need to remind myself of how badly I felt when HAman went off on his own and sent me the lousy text. That would have been accepting crumbs. I feel so happy that I stood my ground. Probably even the birthday calls he tried to make would have felt crummy.

    I’ve decided that what would feel good to me to receive from a man on my birthday would be – a card, a pressie, a kiss, a date, and a piece of cake with a candle and a song. This is what I want. Anything less than this just does not cut it.

    It would feel so great to find a man who can do this for me. *sigh*

    All the stuff about making space for a man. Yeah, I can see where it’s been hard for me. I’m so focused on getting my career off the ground, CDing/ self-esteem, practicing tools and having financial power in my life that being exclusive just seemed like not a good idea for me at the time even when HAman was stepping up.

    I do see how and why he would back off. It wasn’t easy for me to be completely honest with him… while things were happening so fast, seeing him/ not seeing him, practicing tools – getting deep into convo of how this (our relationship) would work – well, I suppose I wasn’t actually ready for that.

    There were also things going on with me that I needed to heal and get clear on. I still feel there is much for me to work on with myself… well, even if I was in a relationship… I think I just need time.

    Taking time for me and feeling things out is what works for me. I feel happy that I am not/ did not make compromises for anyone.

    HAman reminded me of ex-bf because of the financial power. I know that part of me wanted to resist HAman because I did not want to put on blinders because of the power he has.

    My career is sooo important to me and I know it’s only a matter of time (not even that long) till I get to a place where I feel comfortable. It would feel better to choose a man from this context of feeling powerful.

    Yes, I know, I have enough experience that I can choose anyway – but I have enough bad experience too. Perhaps that even coloured how willing I was to be open to HAman – nonetheless, it is still MY time and MY timing that works completely for me.

    That’s it. There is nothing more to add.

    lol 🙂 Seems so interesting that the issue I had with HAman was time. What a mirror 🙂

    I still feel good about myself and my decisions. I want what I want. I want to be the attractive, desirable, siren-diva-fashionista that I am – and that means having the financial power that will give me what I want and help me to make clear decisions about the kind of partner that I would ultimately end up with. Also, living on my own – so that I can make space for a man to come into my life.

    I thank myself for listening more and more to my intuition and doing what is best for me. I want to be absolutely committed to myself on this – ALWAYS listening to my intuition.

    I’m noticing the feelings of peace and how a weight is lifted off my shoulders when I listen to my intuition.

    It is the path to my true bliss.

    Love to all Sirens!!


  52.  #52kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:06 pm


    Your expression ‘extra buttery’ has totally entered into my lexicon. Thank you!

  53.  #53Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    kaitlyn…ya i get it :)…i was actually speaking of the brutal 16 hr days i was working and right now the grass looks super duper green on the other side of the fence 🙂 it seems like i would rather work 16 hrs a day as a doctor than a firefighter…it’s all relative i suppose…

    Hey summerbaby! 🙂 i saw your post to me the other day and didn’t have time to respond…so you are taking some time off from here? 🙁

  54.  #54Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    kaitlyn thanks for bringing that to my actually feels better not thinking that i’m the only one giving up my comforts for work lol…even though i know this it was comforting to hear

  55.  #55Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    My relationship with Kenny is really unique…

    We have an 11 year relationship that is full of sexual talk, a little sexual play, but no actual sex, even tho we were married from 2003 – 2006. Of course it wasn’t by choice, but because he’s in prison.

    The greatest strength of our relationship is undoubtedly our utter honesty! Early on, we both committed to be open and honest – even if we knew the other person wouldn’t like what we said.

    And, early on, Kenny explained to me that in the 10 years he had already spent in prison before he met me, he had seen many romantic relationships come and go. A man would get locked up. His woman would get lonely and seek company. Inevitably, she would cheat on him. She would tell him with fear and tears what she had done. He would explode and break up.

    He told me he didn’t want to go that route with me. He assured me he understood that I am a healthy woman with sexual desires and needs. He told me I could have sex with whoever I chose until he gets released. And once he’s released, it all ends, and we’re exclusive. He said his only condition is that I remain open and honest with him.

    I choose to no longer have sex, and I feel good about that. But for several years, I openly had sex and told Kenny about it. Later, he told me that at first he felt so insecure. But then later, the long term effect was that our trust grew exponentially!

    Our relationship, even tho we have disagreements at times, is unusually open and honest.

    After the deep deceit I experienced with Ryan, I have come to believe that deep honesty is the very core of any healthy relationship. It cums before love. Without honesty, there can be no love, not two-way love, anyway.

  56.  #56Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    queenbee…you sound awesome and very authentic! yay 🙂

  57.  #57kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:17 pm


    Weird, I was just thinking about the topic of honesty.

  58.  #58Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Brenda thank you for sharing that

  59.  #59SummerBaby on May 21, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Jilly, just trying to spend fewer hours here reading. I need to focus more on work and me and learning to love myself better.

    Exciting to hear about hot pilot. I dreamt my guy dropped the L word. Felt like an astral travel dream, but who knows. If I question him about it, it will feel like I’m leaning forward, so I’m just going to believe he does already and will tell me when he’s comfortable to do so.

    good night,

  60.  #60Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    i want to believe that i can have a career that is amazing

    what if i could find the right career for me using Rori’s principles somehow

    the lean back and let go of the outcome and focus on what feels good…that all seems to apply and be in line with “the law of attraction” too..with babysteps

    like attracting the best man for me…

    i feel good thinking this…it might not make sense but in my head it makes sense

  61.  #61Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    Thanks Dorothea. It makes me wish I had never met him. 🙁 The symbolic thing sounds like a good idea but I don’t feel ready to let go of the dream…. 🙁

  62.  #62Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Wow! Just writing that – that I don’t feel ready – feels good! Like an acceptance or something.

  63.  #63Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    Thanks Jilly.

    It’s amazing how fast things can turn around when you decide it’s time/ to do it/ what’s best for you. I believe you can do it.

    I find linear thinking can be so limiting. Non-linear works much better.

    Then, some things just are. Once my head is out of the clouds on those bits, it forms the integrity of my choice to do something a certain way.

    I wonder how LD is doing?

    Sending you loads of love energy for everything you desire and more!


  64.  #64Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    goodnight summerbaby 🙂

    that’s what i would do too..i love those kind of dreams and i had a dream kind of like that where it felt so real… a few weeks ago i had a dream that i was standing on the street with pipeliner and we were talking and all of a sudden i turned around and hotpilot was there and i felt SO safe and secure i jumped up and gave him a big huge hug and i knew right then that i’d made the right felt awesome!!…and with hotpilot..he’s only said the L word once so far (and i like that) and i just know he’s loving me no matter what 🙂

  65.  #65kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    I feel massive amounts of anxiety over everything and nothing. I’m crying. Don’t know why. Going to gobble some Xanax.

  66.  #66Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:28 pm


    RE: #52 – LOL! Yeah, I love it! Now if I could just get rid of it! No fun carrying around all this extra weight with every step. I know what it feels like to be fit! Nothing tastes as good as fit feels!

  67.  #67Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    thanks queenbee!…ya i like non-linear too lol! feels less stressful

    ya i wonder how she is too…and did Alonka or SLV ever pop in again?

  68.  #68Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    What I said about Kenny and me was in response to Rori’s article about Maria and Arnold. Our relationship has withstood difficulties of all kinds, far beyond that of the average married couple. It is not fragile. I get annoyed at him sometimes, but our friendship is strong, even thru storms.

  69.  #69kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    66 Brenda, metaphorically or literally? how’s getting in shape going? remember, rome wasn’t built in a day.

  70.  #70Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    I think Tolle says something about that – that sometimes we need to accept that we can’t accept something right now. I have been trying to make myself let go and “get over him” instead – and that is a form of resistance to where I am emotionally. And resistance is what causes the pain. So if I accept that I can’t yet accept not having him, I will feel less pain. I am not over WH and that is Okay! That feels better. I love and accept myself where I am. <3

  71.  #71Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    kaitlyn…(((HUGS)))crying is healing..why would you numb yourself when you are in the middle of healing?

  72.  #72Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Jilly – In Rori’s power and self-esteem category, if I remember correctly, she mentions something about writing “I” in caps.

    I find this to be such a huge indication of how we feel about ourselves and circumstances.

    I remember when I first me HAman, I would sign off with (for eg.) “q”.

    Strangest thing.

    I’ve also just changed his name in my phone to caps.

    I don’t want to think of him as small and I can see how I have been doing that.

    Perhaps such a babystep may help you get in line with what you desire.

    What do you think?


  73.  #73Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Lucy…((((HUGS)))) to you too…i was trying to think of something to say to you and i thought of Tolle too!! basically what you just accept not being over WH right now…but i wish i had something better…but i’m glad you found a thought that feels better to you

  74.  #74Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Jilly 60. That is what I am doing. Makes perfect sense to me. 🙂

  75.  #75Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:41 pm


    Re: #69 – I was going for a last ditch effort to lose weight before my 30th class reunion July 1st…as soon as I try to deprive myself, I end up bingeing. I probably gained 5 lbs in the last week. A lot of it has to do with stress and anxiety over moving and packing. Hard to trust God in real time!

    So not sure what you mean about figuratively or literally – in relation to what?

  76.  #76Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    hmmmm…Queenbee…. 🙂 I get what you are saying…I’ll try it out 😉 Thanks!! I didn’t see it as really meaning anything but ya never know…I’ll go find that article..

  77.  #77Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:42 pm


    RE: #58 – You’re welcome, and thank you!

  78.  #78Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Jilly, thanks for the hug. And it feels good that you thought of the same Tolle concept! Feels like confirmation, that yes, this is a good direction to go. Thx. <3

  79.  #79gina on May 21, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    I have a hunch that Arnold Schwarzenneger is going through some sort of initiation process, ritual, right of passage, or something… I think this is a sacrifice he is having to make. Not really at the barrel of a gun. More like to achieve a status or something. Cause it seems very set-up to me. I believe he did impregnate that woman years ago and that Maria Shriver gave up on fighting who is he is long ago, and she loved what he gave her. I remember lots of publicity he got for grabbing a$$ and boobs years ago, and then the problem went away, he governed California for a while, retired, and now we are inundated with info about this affair from 10 years ago that he suddenly had to come forward about.
    Is it really because some rogue paparazi had it out for him? Or was it common knowledge that he was a womanizer? I believe that this could have come out at any point, and I wonder at the signifigance of the timing. After his Governership, after the woman retired (and safely nestled outside of LA in a house he bought her), he suddenly has to announce to his wife and the world that he was unfaithfull. And yet we’re told that this won’t affect his film career. Oh really??

    I think he’s being forced to lose it all …
    to maybe earn all that fame and power…?
    as part of some initiation process within the inner workings of the shadow goverment currently ruling the world with symbols…?

    To further chip at our collective psyche, as our image of a superhero is becoming fixed with a major weakness for women…?

    To widen the gap between men and women…?

    I feel mad!!

  80.  #80Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Well then Lucy..I feel excited that you are doing this too :)…please let me know of any “secrets” or “tools” that work for you! I really am believing in the law of attraction..I have almost all of the Hick’s stuff..but already this year I’m ahead in my finances and I just had a client from 3 years ago contact me to train her that’s extra income too…I can feel things shifting….and plus meeting hotpilot…it all seems to be coming together..

    I want a totally different career! and I have to feel good now…feels counterintuitive that’s for sure

  81.  #81Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    The thot I had is that a spammer could do a search in the Edit part of the toolbar by simply searching “@” or “.com”. Something to think about if we share email addresses in the future.

  82.  #82Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    ya..I’ll be keeping that in mind too Brenda…hey do you know Sienna’s whereabouts? 🙂 does she have a website? I would like to talk with her about this LOA career thing

  83.  #83Lucy on May 21, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    Jilly, I was trying to find you on fb… LD too… Can you connect with me thru Brenda or Summerbaby?

  84.  #84Brenda on May 21, 2011 at 10:58 pm


    RE: #82 – I don’t know.

  85.  #85kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 10:59 pm


    Depriving yourself leads to bingeing. Excercising more quells the appetite. As far as food, introduce more uncooked vegs into your diet. eeventually, you’ll desire less crap and crave more healthy choices. see things as adding, not subtracting. and substitution is good also.

    substitution = yesterday i didnt have money, so i ate a hamburger. i asked for it to be lettuced wrapped instead of the bun. and i had a side salad instead of fries. and no special sauce. but i loaded up on ketchup and mustard…yum.

  86.  #86Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    ya I will go see if I can find you.. 🙂

  87.  #87kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    weights. heavy frickin weights. then cardio.

    = magic = tight body = feeling fit and slinky sireny!!! yay!!!

  88.  #88Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    Jilly – I’m feeling more relaxed reading from you with “I” in caps addressed to yourself.

    Your voice really comes through in the midst of all the surrounding posts. Your voice feels confident, womanly and powerful. It was more like cute, sweet and kind in the other. Now it has that an all the other elements.

    Best of luck! I’m rooting for you!


  89.  #89Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Wow..Queenbee…I feel really intrigued and flattered…thank you! and that it could make you feel more relaxed…soo cool!

    And I’m rooting for you!! 🙂 I feel happy knowing that I took a babystep tonight

  90.  #90Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    Lucy…I realized that I don’t know who I’m looking for lol

  91.  #91Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Going to bed after some tea and biscuits 🙂

    I’ll do mani/ pedi when I wake up and paint. Also make an apt with my waxing lady – I’m way overdue 🙁

    Need to think about what to do with my hair.

    Must start preparing for the Big Apple this week – count the days I’ll be there, get my wardrobe sorted and packed, write out my shopping list and organize my CDs :).

    Yay!! Flirting and practicing with men in the Big Apple, lol! That should be interesting 🙂

    Ok, tea and biscuits here I come.

    Goodnight Sirens!


  92.  #92kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    I feel hungry. gonna eat egg whites. i rarely eat before bed, but if i do, egg whites are fairly safe.

  93.  #93Jilly on May 21, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Goodnight Queenbee 🙂

    I’m going to go to bed too..I feel sleepy

    Lucy…I think I know but I’m not 100% positive 🙂 I’m going to send you a message

  94.  #94Queenbee on May 21, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    Jilly – I think you took two babysteps. The grace with which you flowed from one to the other is astounding.

    I did notice. So beautiful. I will remember you now when I need to take a babystep and allow myself to be graceful.


  95.  #95kaitlyn on May 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm

  96.  #96janjune on May 21, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    {{{ YAY }}} FOR YOU LERCOMARI!!!!!

    super breakthrough!!

    i feel super excited for you to have pushed through such an enormous barrier!

  97.  #97janjune on May 21, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    ooo ella, #5 sounds great 🙂

    i feel so happy reading that you are at this place so quickly!… i’ll have to go back to previous thread to find out how you got here.

    yippee for goddesses moving in their power.

  98.  #98janjune on May 21, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    darling ella,

    “we, women, feel it…the negative energy created by lies are projected on to us…and we often experience it as us feeling “crazy, weird, seeing things, neglected, not good enough, rejected…etc..” .”

    that feels like such a powerful statement. i had to read it four times before the entire meaning soaked all the way in to my heart and mind.
    oh yes, the negative energy created by lies or deceit or unfaithfulness or premeditated betrayal whether with money or women or time or resources

  99.  #99janjune on May 21, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    oops, clicked submit…
    as i was saying 🙂
    oh yes, the negative energy created by lies or deceit or unfaithfulness or premeditated betrayal whether with money or women or time or resources DOES get projected onto us!

    i have to wonder WHY “we often experience it as us feeling “crazy, weird, seeing things, neglected, not good enough, rejected…etc..” .”
    instead of just experiencing it as negative energy…

    but i guess, as rori says, it really doesn’t matter why…
    it only matters that we make the change.

  100.  #100Emerson on May 21, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    This post triggers me big time. I HATE being lied to by a man, even if it’s something little. Don’t we all hate it??
    It’s kind of universal, I assume. I just seem to obsess that when I find out about ONE lie,,,,

    I get suspicious that he’s lying to me all the time. I’ve gone into super investigator mold…only to uncover more lies. THAT sucks.

    I feel very negative.
    But yes, it feels better to talk about it.

  101.  #101janjune on May 21, 2011 at 11:55 pm


    that idea of making a void, purposely, in order to have a place for him to fill… feels practical and mysterious at the same time.

  102.  #102kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 12:40 am

    I hate how I lied to Adam. When I weighed my Paris decision in my head for 3 days THEN told him I was going, it was a lie.

    It was a lie because our agreement with exclusivity and long dist meant we always be honest with each other. It wasn’t honest that I hid the offer from him before mulling it over. He told me what I did was sneaky and deceptive because I didn’t discuss it with him first before deciding.

    Obvs, no guy is cool with his chick running off doing some whor3 job. Especially not a guy who as dark and underground an adult life he has lived, is still from a sheltered and privleged background and self-admittedly insecure.

    I told him I didn’t tell him asap upon being offered because either way, he’d resent me. I felt afraid that it’d ruin our relationship either way. He said it wouldn’t have. I didn’t believe him because it’s easy to say we’re open minded. Until the reality happens.

  103.  #103janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:53 am

    i had some major, major shifts today.
    i found myself thinking differently, reacting differently, holding my energy to me, not letting go of it for anger or to try to get what i wanted to happen, to happen. i just felt the anger coming up and decided i don’t want to do that anymore. i guess i’ve learned that it’s all energy… i can use the energy to be angry or i can use the same energy to make different plans–plans that won’t bring about anger.
    it just all seemed to make sense today that experiencing and expressing anger doesn’t affect much, it just consumes my energy. it doesn’t get anything done and i’m too tired to do anything when my energy is gone after i’m mad. . lool
    i know it has it’s place, as a Tool of sorts, a Tool to *warn* me about things.
    “uh-oh, this isn’t going right, i have to do something different, QUICK.”
    “omg, that fool is going to injure me, i need to get away from him/ her/them/ it.”
    “this just isn’t working. i need to step up for myself and say “No”.”
    i hope to soon use anger ONLY as a warning signal TO ME.
    i don’t believe people hear anger.
    I don’t believe it helps the situation if i express it.
    i believe the only thing that helps the situation is for me to take care of me by doing what’s right for me and building and having boundaries and standing straight and tall and not LET other people break through my boundaries.
    i believe THAT is what they hear.

  104.  #104janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:57 am

    i feel impressed by your honesty with yourself about how you handled the situation with A.

  105.  #105janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:58 am

    waaay late here.
    going to bed…

    goodnight goddessezzzz zzz zz z z z z z z z z z

  106.  #106kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 1:08 am

    104 Janjune

    The only honesty I displayed was how I feel right now.

    I wasn’t honest with Adam and he didn’t excuse me just because I told him I held back telling him out of fear.

    Not that he’d be fine with me going if I discussed it with him instead of mulling it over then telling him…

  107.  #107kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 1:12 am

    And no, I haven’t talked to Adam at all since he asked me out via FB for when he gets back here. He hasn’t even told me when he returns and when the date is. It’s his job to do that. I’m being patient and realizing he prolly isn’t even thinking abaout it until his return date gets closer. cuz thats how men roll. plus, lets not forget he’s being gingerly with communication because this is sensitive, sordid stuff. not your average everyday breakup. i feel so sorry i hurt him. one of our last convos months back was him insisting i hurt him on purpose.

  108.  #108kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 1:22 am

    The convo I speak of in #102 is from months back when I returned from Paris. he was ignoring me, so i left him alone for a week, then threw in the towel and called him and asked him “you haven’t contacted me. i understand why. but i’d like to know where i stand.” i sighed with some kind of disgust and said “what do you think?” then commenced a 2 hr convo.

  109.  #109kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 1:25 am

    i mean HE sighed with some kind of disgust.

    drugs are bad, kids. I’m making typos galore.

  110.  #110Daria on May 22, 2011 at 1:52 am

    Feeling So happy to be in my bed. Feeling giddy and squeezy excitement.

    I feel endearment to feel that way.

  111.  #111Nikita on May 22, 2011 at 2:00 am

    I had a date, I had a date, I had a date!!! 🙂 *in sing song *a date -a date-a dATE YAY!!!!! 🙂

    HE saw me home he saw me home-he leaned forward….he leaned forward-*still in sing song *

    I am so proud that I stayed open and i had a date…he was so ……… proper 🙂

    I had a date 🙂

  112.  #112Ella on May 22, 2011 at 2:38 am

    Regarding men in general I am feeling turned off, slightly disillusioned, frustrated and a bit angry.

    So far in the last 24 hours I have had housemate crying on my shoulder and yes he was asking me for support, ok i is my choice if I give it or not, but that is what he was approaching me looking for.

    Me being silly and topping him up to then watch him go off on his ‘jolly’ with other woman yesterday morning, who btw, is still here this morning with her kids!


    It feels so off to me.

    Then I had pub man telling people he really likes me and standing up for me in the pub when someone said something mean about me (I wasn’t there and my friend told me) but then he is kinda trying to booty call me via FB…

    So he’s done it a few times and I have never replied till the next day. Last night he caught me while I was still up and asked if we could meet to talk.

    Now I know this is still not ideal due to the time that he contacted but I felt open to hearing what he had to say so I said ok and only of it is just to talk… and he has to come and get me.

    But then I get a call from one of our mutual friends saying he has just arrived at their house with her b,friend. He expects me to go there.

    Nooooo. Lol.

    Hit him with a FM on FB… lots of apologies but I was asleep by then.

    This morning I have made a boundary and stated ‘I don’t want to be a booty call so it would feel better if you would contact me at more regular times’.

    Saw other guy in pub who was going to call me last week and arrange a date. He was there with his friends, me with mine. He didn’t come over, and when I got home I recieved a text from him saying ‘cheers for coming over!’.



    Seriously dudes come on!

    It feels almost farcicle.

    Ok, so if meeting men in bars is off I wonder where I will meet them. I feel tired at the thought of putting together an online profile again on a dating site.

    Could and it just feels tiresome somehow.

    What are my other options?

    Maybe the supermarket…

    I don’t really have the time to join any classes or anything like that. Want to just work and live my life.

  113.  #113Ella on May 22, 2011 at 2:38 am

    Flowerchild re 34,

    Thats exactly what I have been thinking.

    I am actually feeling quite turned off and put off. And vaguely sickened.

  114.  #114Ella on May 22, 2011 at 2:47 am

    Janjune re 101

    Yay, I like it!

  115.  #115Ella on May 22, 2011 at 3:11 am

    Even if I am not getting the results I want, I feel good about finding and stating my boundaries.

    And taking care of me.

  116.  #116Ella on May 22, 2011 at 3:18 am

    Nikita @ 111



    I feel happy. xx

  117.  #117Ella on May 22, 2011 at 3:21 am

    All alone on he blog again.

    Conversations with myself cus most Sirens live in other parts of the world.

    And that is ok.

    I just had coffee.

    I have been procrastinating sorting out my room and my clothes which are a mess, and I am going to do it today.

    I am also going to do a bit of work and some dance practice.

    Then later cook a healthy meal.


  118.  #118Ella on May 22, 2011 at 3:36 am

    My heart is feeling a lil bit closed off today.

    Like I am doing all this good stuff and not really geting any good stuff in return.

    Am working to let go of being attached to outcomes, and also maybe it just takes time.

    Like maybe stuff IS happening, and I just can’t see it yet! Maybe wheels are set off in motion behind the scene.

    Work is looking better though, and I am feeling very pleased about this.


  119.  #119jackie on May 22, 2011 at 4:38 am

    I think I am getting all this wrong…. I have been seeing a man for 4 – 5 months. He has been quite reserved always, needed gentle ecouragement, took weeks to kiss me and all that. He has not ever been gushy or demonstrative in actions or words. I am used to full on, heavy relationships, and this has been so different. I nearly bailed a few times, on the basis it made me feel a little uncertain that he didnt give me a lot of signs he was really interested, but decided it was worth waiting to see if he was just taking it slow. We have a lot of common interests, i like him very much. A lot of the things that matter to me, he meets. He is funny, gentle, respectful, generous (not just to me) he treats waiting staff etc with friendly courtesy, tips well etc.

    Anyway – there have been a couple of occasions he has faded away for a couple of weeks – i didnt chase him or challenge him, just did the waiting, keeping busy thing. He has a business and two young children who he sees a lot of, so I have given him the benefit of the doubt and he seems to appreciate (unspoken) that I dont give him a hard time.

    It is having a toll on me though. Last couple of times I have seen him I have been a little quiet, I think if I saw him regularly and it felt more ‘real’ I would be more relaxed around him. But I have been completely unable to express that. He made a remark the other night along the lines of he doesnt want to end up in one of those relationships where the couple have nothing to say to each other. It felt like he was referring to us. I let it go – it was later I thought about it. If I had realised I could possibly have said ‘i know I am a little quiet, I have just felt a little unsure lately and it is making me feel a little shy around you again, as I can’t work out what is happening with us from week to week’ or words to that effect.

    +ve. He treats me perfectly when he is with me, pays, makes me laugh, is attentive, remembers all the wee things I tell him, really seems to care about me.

    -ve. He doesn’t keep in close contact between dates – only a few texts, and they are funny and warm, but not very romantic – especially not the last couple of weeks! I feel he has kept me at arms length the whole time, but with really mixed signals. I have never met any of his friends or he mine. I have never been to his house. (he did ask me once, way back, too soon. He has mentioned it since, but it didnt happen.) He has been to mine lots, so i feel I have tried to open up to him, and let him in, but he isnt reciprocating.

    I have thought again about ending it – it seems a shame to finish something that is lovely when i see him, but …. I dont feel I could call him if I needed something. By 4-5 months i want to know my man can see me to watch the football, go to see a band, but as it is going so slowly – I am unable to know that as I cant ask as he should be leading.

    Maybe our idea of what a relationship looks like doesnt match. Our styles of communication dont match.

    Should I have a conversation about it – or wait and see….? I am trying not to lead – but its going nowhere!! I am concerned that if I bring any of it up that might be me trying to start rowing again – especially as it feels he has cooled a bit.

    He texted me last night (Sat), saw him on Wednesday, just a friendly funny xx one, i texted back i had had an accident at work(Fri), so felt a bit rubbish. His reply? ‘aw, i hope you are ok!xx’

    I just sent ‘I will be, thanks xx’

    maybe I should have contacted him on Friday – he may be wondering why I didnt let him know…. i dont ask him for anything. Maybe that isnt being authentic….. he doesnt know what I want or need from him….

    I don’t feel he is really there for me…

  120.  #120Jeannette on May 22, 2011 at 5:30 am

    Jackie, have you ever thought of asking him what it is he is looking for…..I really think that is a fair question for him AND for you. Is he an aquarius? Seriously, my man is and they want a definite friendship before a romance. Just curious.

  121.  #121Ella on May 22, 2011 at 5:40 am

    OMG OMG – I did it!!!

    Housemate just arrived home and from other woman and the first thing he did was come up to my room and start talking about his ex.

    First he said he has put her plants outside and if I see her online I could tell her otherwise they will get wet.

    I said ‘actually I feel a bit uncomfortable and would rather not get involved’.

    Then he began talking about her.

    And I listened for a bit, trying to get the balls to say something.

    Then I said ‘actually I feel really uncomfortable talking about this. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. And I would rather talk about good stuff’.

    He shut up and kinda backed off and said ‘point taken and well made!’.

    The only thing was I think it came out a bit peed off (my FM) cus I was feeling so nervous and uncomfortable, rather than with humour and kindness which is what Rosa and I had discussed when I worked on the script for this.

    But whatever.

    I did it… that is the main thing.

    I have stated I do not want to hear about it. Maybe it came out a bit harsh but so what.

    He left after that. And I don’t care.

    I would rather feel good on my own than feel sub par and uncomfortable with a man and listening to him talk about past loves.

    Yay for me!

  122.  #122Jeannette on May 22, 2011 at 5:47 am

    I have looked at this post and I need to share ‘remind’ you that I have done the cheating…..I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN! I will throw myself in front of a car before I do that ever again…..Guys, it hurts ones spirit more then it could another’s……believe me. The person may not look like it or want to believe it and run around in denial all their life…..but it takes a lot of work to feel worthy of love again…..I am on that path….We as a society need to understand we are on the wrong path…the breakdown of relationships is all about the lack of trust. We need to know there is one person we can trust if no other…..It is our call our purpose in life to prove that we are trustworthy…..thus peace of mind follows……THIS IS TRUTH

  123.  #123Ella on May 22, 2011 at 5:53 am

    I realise I have a lot of fear an paranoia about being vulnerable in front of men.

    Like the thing that absolutely makes me squirm the most, and feels almost intolerable to me, is the thought that a man knows I like him, and thinks I like him a lot, when he is not into me!

    For me that is the ickiest form of icky!

    I HATE feeling like that.

    Thats why so many times in the past I will put on a front and pretend not to really like a man as much as I do, for fear of feeling like that.

    And even worse is when you kinda like him… a bit… but he kinda takes it like you are besotted with him and are some crazy bunny boiler.

    Ow those labels are so triggering!

    Feeling vulnerable right now and some guy on FB called me crazy… he is a mutual friend of pub guy and me and he was commenting on a wall post to me by pub guy and then I jokingly called him a stirrer with a big wooden spoon to which he came back that I was crazy and needed a straight jacket!


    But yes the feeling of being into a man who is not into you… and for me I think it is that thought of him being like ‘oh she likes me, poor deluded dear! Best stay well away from her in case she jumps me!’. And the energy that goes along with that feels terrible.

    Its like they see you as needy and so needy and insecure that you will go crazy and get obsessed with him.

    Well those are probably my own issues around this anyway.

    Is it a part of me I am rejecting? That I find the thought of people believing that about me to be so intolerable?

    Yes probably.

    It is part of my stranger I think.

    And it is something I feel uncomforable when I see it in other women. That neediness, clinging on and accepting crumbs from men.

    Ick, yuk, ewww.


    Like I just want to shake them and say ‘Stop it!!! Stop it now!!’.

    So obvioulsy I am totally uncomfortable with that part of myself. I am obviously rejecting it and stffing it down.

    And that feels terrible.

    Ok, needy clingy part of me. Ok desperate, crazy, needing a man, crumb taking part of me.

    I accept you.

    And I love you.

    Yo are just the vulnerable, almost child like part, and thats ok.

    Its ok to want, and to even need a man! And you are part of me.

    And I am here now and I will not tolerate bad behaviour despite having a part of me who needs a man and feels vulnerable and needy.

    Oh I just started crying.

    That feels gently, and kinda sad but warm.

    And tender.

    I love you Ella!


  124.  #124Ella on May 22, 2011 at 5:56 am

    I love the needy clingy, desperate, crazy, needing a man, crumb taking part of me.


  125.  #125Ella on May 22, 2011 at 6:09 am

    Hmmm, think housemate dude must have felt my anger powing over towards him even though I didn’t mean to.

    But I was not gonna pretend.

    But u know what, most of the anger is at myself for overgiving and thinking there was something here which there is not…

    Or thinking there is more here than what it if you know what I mean.

    Angry bc I gave too much.

    That is it.

    Hmph I feel like angry, bitter woman.

    Icky. Icky.

    Oh well F it. Whatever.

    If I feel angry, I feel angry. That to shall pass.

    And I got my boundary out.

    Plus I won’t be giving anything else out.

    I was thinking earlier you know what it is probably for the best. Not good to date a housemate and I am feeling really turned off him right now.

    I feel kinda disgusted and put off and I don’t know why.

    Like a kind of sour taste in my mouth, how weird

    Now he is taking his son and they are going to see another other woman… lol.

    I don’t know. what can you do.

    I feel kinda nothing much.

  126.  #126Ella on May 22, 2011 at 6:11 am

    Its like he is doing the male version of CD-ing.

    But it feels all wrong somehow. I dunno maybe feels all very fem energy.

    Anyway, enough already!

    Lets focus on me again.

    Muchg more fun!


  127.  #127SummerBaby on May 22, 2011 at 6:56 am

    Yay Ella,

    Focus on you and love all your parts! Hooray for establishing your boundary. Who cares if it came out angry, it came out and that’s what matters. It’s high time you were more gentle and loving with YOU for YOU… take good care of YOU!

    big hugs,

  128.  #128Barbara on May 22, 2011 at 7:08 am

    For me the issue is about betrayal. Of course people lie; everybody lies. Who is to judge the extent of the lie? We can say that all lies are bad just because we are not living our truth. After that, it seems kind of a moot point to me. I don’t know who would be qualified to put a value on any lie or a judgement on any lier. We are all the same here. That makes it easier for me to understand and process because it makes it less personal: everybody does it. But it is the betrayal part that hurts and is personal. To break the vows of the relationship, whatever level they are, is the issue to me. Was it a “one time” mistake? Was it based on a lack of love and commitment to the relationship? I would ask my partner, “why did you betray me?” and see how I felt about his answer. Then you would have a truth to deal with; maybe a new truth. There will certainly be lots of feelings, and hopefully, eventually, there will be lots of forgiveness whether or not the relationship survives and improves, or changes and it let go. I believe that the betrayal of trust is major issue; whether it was through cheating, stealing, abuse, etc. the end result is the same. You lose your feeling of safety in the relationship; whether or not you can or want to try to get it back is the path you try next.

  129.  #129Rosa on May 22, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Atta girl Ella , it sounds fine what you said..really good.
    The boundary was clear and you didnt say why or try to explain just politely said no thanks..

    now turn your back on the Cringe zone on this one. and keep leaning back , brief pleasant contact only..minimize so he starts to think of you more and all his dates and the ex less let him wonder what happened to “those feelings” ,,by the time he asks (and yes he will ,’cause they want to know they still got the Magnet Man pull) you will be too busy with your life to answer more than..”its been an eye opener sharing the house , I know more of what I want now”.

    And ask yourself do you want a guy who brings kids into sleep over dates with new women and then next day its someone new and new kids or same kids with new women??? This is so confusing for kids and deeply selfish of the parents to put them through it on brief acquaintance ..YICK !

    I am SO GLAD you didnt have an anti-siren attack of outcome seeking , blamey stuff, Woohooo!!!

    You may have avoided a revolving door dataholic kind of guy..wait and see. Meanwhile up on that horsey gal,feet in the stirrups .. give him an apple and ride on !

  130.  #130Mel on May 22, 2011 at 7:36 am

    It is porn. It happened again, while I was right there in the next room. After a really nice day together. I feel confused. I feel sad and ugly. I’m not ugly, but I feel ugly. I don’t know that it’s the porn that I hate. It’s that it feels like he made a choice and it wasn’t me. Last time he promised. Said he didn’t know how much it would hurt me. What is a promise? It still hurts. Now he’s avoiding me. That feels worse. I wish there could be an agreement. No porn if I’m around. That really feels bad. Yet, I have no control. I shouldn’t try. Was this a test? If it was, I failed.

  131.  #131Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:04 am


    RE: #85 and 87 – Thank you! Very good suggestions! I really want to get a membership at a pool. I’m at my all-time highest weight, and exercise other than swimming is extremely uncomfortable right now. That’s a big reason I haven’t been doing that much. It’s like carrying a huge backpack with every step I take.

    I do good for a day, or half a day, then I blow it. I’ve been seeking out salads, and that’s a winner for me. I find that protein smoothies take me a long way toward weight loss. It’s just tempting to eat comfort foods.

  132.  #132Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:06 am


    RE: #92 – Fruit or juice are safe before bedtime, too, since they take virtually no time to digest. Now if I could just do what I say.

  133.  #133Mel on May 22, 2011 at 8:15 am


    I think it’s great that you are trying to get healthier! Kudos! I wonder if I could offer a suggestion….

    When dieting, have you tried utilizing a “free day?”

    For the entire week, plan your healthy meals. Have a bunch of fresh veggies washed and ready to go in the fridge. Pre-cook some chicken breast and keep it on-hand for a quick and tasty salad. Get some fat-free/sugar free pudding to make when you feel like you have a sweet-tooth.

    Then… choose one day each week (maybe a Saturday) where you give yourself permission to have one meal where you can eat whatever you want. Take-out, greasy pizza, cake, cookies, whatever! I find that this helps get rid of the deprivation mentality. Also, it’s been proven that it will fool your body into losing more weight. When you diet, the metabolism is slowed down because the body thinks “uh-oh! Food is scarce, I better conserve my energy.” When you allow yourself to have an occasional free meal it helps to reset that biological instinct. Also, during the week when you have a craving, you can say to yourself “I can have whatever I want on Saturday.” which helps with the willpower. Doing this really worked for me anyway.

    Good luck!

  134.  #134Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:23 am


    RE: #122 – You said, “the breakdown of relationships is all about the lack of trust. We need to know there is one person we can trust if no other…..It is our call our purpose in life to prove that we are trustworthy…..thus peace of mind follows……THIS IS TRUTH”

    Right on! Like!

  135.  #135Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:26 am


    RE: #130 – Sorry to hear that. I discussed porn stuff with Ryan and one thing I liked about him is he was turned off by the perversion of porn, while he liked nude art. He said it did a man’s soul good. I felt accepting of that, because the human body truly is beautiful and marvelous.

  136.  #136Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:28 am


    RE: #133 – Very good suggestions! Thank you! Yes, I like the idea of one free day (for me it would hafta be a day, not just one meal…I know myself too well). I just need to set my focus. And, right now I’m in the middle of a move, and I’ve been indulging myself too much, just trying to cope with all the bad stress feelings about the move and the unknown. Thanks again!

  137.  #137Mel on May 22, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Should I just act like nothing happened? He won’t want to talk about it, that’s for sure.

    I feel angry. I feel like going out and buying a vibrator. Then just doing that at random times. With him in the next room. Or beside me in bed. How would he feel about that? I don’t actually want to do this. But it make me wonder. Maybe he would finally “get” why it feels so hurtful.

  138.  #138Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Brenda, I have at least 40 pounds I need to lose. I am also at my highest weight except for when fully pregnant. For the past two weeks I’ve been making better choices, smaller portions, drinking water, taking vitamins and no fast food. I pack my lunch for work, eat special K once or twice a day, and am getting some exercise. Not enough. I know I need to really up that, but I lost 3 pounds so far, and that is a step in the right direction. When I do exercise, I don’t want to waste the effort, so I’m much more careful about my calories. I read labels, count my calories… and am just more aware.

    One suggestion, rather than having a whole day you can blow, maybe have two or three meals throughout the week where you can indulge, rather than one whole day to blow. Or, make yourself a deal, if you walk for 30 min. then you can have that slice of pizza…

    Do you know about the sparkpeople website? It’s amazing. You can track your food, water, exercise, goals, weight loss, measurements, steps, etc. There are message boards, you can join teams… and you have a profile page, kind of like myspace. It helps me to be more honest about what I am eating when I have to record it.

    Kaitlyn, so you recommend heavy weights plus lots of cardio? How many days a week? I’m taking my weight loss in ten pound incriments, but want to lose 40. Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated on the exercise. I have the diet figured out. Thanks!

  139.  #139Mel on May 22, 2011 at 8:50 am


    Has he ever told you why he was so unhappy? You two seem to be on much better terms now.

  140.  #140Mel on May 22, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I just feel so confused that we could have a great day together (spending time outside, going for a nice drive, visiting a winery) and then come home and look at porn while your wife naps on the couch. I just don’t get it. And now why is he avoiding me today? It just makes me feel worse. Why can’t we just talk about it? Come to some sort of compromise? I don’t want to be unreasonable about this. Porn can be an ok thing… just not when I’m around. Yuck.

  141.  #141Jeannette on May 22, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Brenda, #122, I knew you would get that! That’s it in a nutshell……

  142.  #142Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 9:10 am


    RE: #138 – Rori talks about feeling messages so that we can remain genuine all of the time, and NOT stuff our feelings. If I were you, I would approach it like this:

    “I feel horrible knowing my man is in the next room looking at the bodies of other women. I feel like puking, and I feel angry. I want to leave. I want to scream and cry with all the pain I feel inside.”

    I would attempt to be silent, to pause so he could respond. Then I would take it from there. Easier said than done, tho. If it were me, I would suggest nude art instead, and suggest looking at it together. I know that’s not everyone.

    Depending on how he responded, I might go so far as to leave the relationship, even if it were temporarily, to do a royal walk-away.

    What do you think?

  143.  #143Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Well Mel, I’d say he probably feels like he doesn’t need your permission. He can do what he wants, when he wants… and will. My ex did that too… we’d spend a nice day together, I’d cook a great meal, and he’d stay up late to be on the computer. It almost felt like he did his husband duty, because he should… but then would reward himself with what he wanted.

    The porn isn’t the problem, it’s just the reaction to whatever the problem is. He doesn’t know he wants to be married, feels a midlife crisis at 30… he’s reacting to that. Whatever that is, rather than be intimate with you, he’s going another direction to avoid intimacy, maybe because he doesn’t want to feel that. I know I told you before, my ex didn’t want to go to church because he didn’t want to feel like he had to stay in the marriage because it was what God wanted. Crazy! Don’t want to do what could be good you and your marriage, so that you don’t have to do the right thing. Because he wanted out. He regretted it later, but so much damage had been done, would have been really hard to get past all that.

  144.  #144Mel on May 22, 2011 at 9:17 am

    “But he has to decide that he wants to be in the marriage, and will do whatever it takes to save it.”

    I know. But this is something I have no control over. That’s his decision. He will make it or he won’t. This is the really painfully frustrating part.

    All I know is that sabotaging any progress in the relationship seems to be a recurring theme with us. He has a nice day with me and then does something hurtful. Or, we’ll have a great week and then I will get frustrated over some situation and say something blamey and we’re back to square one. That’s what I don’t get. Why we keep screwing things up.

  145.  #145T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Mel, I can’t remember for sure but I think that Tinque had issues with porn too. Maybe she will chime in or you can search her website.

  146.  #146T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Here are the articles relating to porn from Tinque’s website:

  147.  #147Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 9:22 am


    RE: #132 – Thanks! I joined SparkPeople, but one of my fundamental issues is self-discipline. If I can’t discipline myself to choose a decent meal, forget me tracking all that stuff. It just ain’t gonna happen.

    One of the sayings in Alcoholics Anonymous is, “One (beer) is too much, and a thousand is not enough.” The same holds true for me when it comes to eating. Once I have one “off” meal, it won’t stop there. I know myself too well.

    My issue isn’t knowing how to eat right or exercise. I know exactly how to lose weight, and I lost 90 lbs in the late 80s. I kept it off for 6-7 years, too, and I looked like a model!

    My issue is emotional disturbance. All my periods of weight gain correlate with times of emotional upset. When I can get myself settled down emotionally, I will lose weight.

  148.  #148T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 9:26 am

    After this past weekend I have realized the crumbs that I was accepting from various men in my life. Actually, maybe they were a mixture of crumbs and me wanting something more from the men than they were willing to give.

    Then I met Poker Player. Oh my gosh…I can’t believe how lucky I am. No crumbs. He tells me how he feels. He has introduced me to family. He told me “I have been waiting along time for you”. He gave me a key to his house and told me it is my home now too and now the door will never be locked for me. He is the one who told me he prefers to have sex in a committed relationship. Well let me tell you, the sex is amazing!! 🙂

    Oh my gosh. Sigh…melt….sigh…thank you Rori…

  149.  #149Mel on May 22, 2011 at 9:30 am

    “Well Mel, I’d say he probably feels like he doesn’t need your permission. He can do what he wants, when he wants…”

    And he DOESN’T need my permission. I don’t want to be the kind of wife that permits or doesn’t permit things. I think it was FW that said something yesterday about a woman saying to he husband “it’s your body and you can do whatever you want with it…”

    But… if he says he wants to make things work between us, than this is something we need to discuss. I feel horrible about myself when he does this in my presence. I feel like I’m not good enough. Like my feelings don’t matter. Unloved.

    We can’t “make things work” if one or both of us still insists on doing things that hurt the other, simply because we CAN.

  150.  #150Boomer on May 22, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Turquoise 137:

    “I spent so many years of my life being good. A good wife, a good mother, a good friend, a good family member… yet somehow that translated to a doormat, taken advantage of, low self esteem, exhausted woman. ”

    Oh, how I know this.

    I have some peace now, but it took some drastic life-altering events to bring it about. I wish I know them what I know now.

    But being “super woman” is such an easy trap to fall into. And having kids and being a wife and a “good” child/sister/friend is really hard work. Cut yourself some slack. Each day it gets better. You DO know how to do it better now, and you will!

  151.  #151Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Mel, I completely agree with you. And until he decides that making things better in your marriage, there isn’t anything you can do to make him decide that. He has to want it. Have you asked him what he’s willing to do to make things better in the marriage? Do you have any kind of plan? I wouldn’t ignore what feels bad to you. I’d discuss it with him. Ask him what he wants? Where does he see your marriage in a year?

  152.  #152T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Turquoise, I say go ahead and have your good cry today if you feel like it. Get those feelings out and feel them. It is very therapeutic.

  153.  #153Mel on May 22, 2011 at 9:39 am

    “Don’t want to do what could be good you and your marriage, so that you don’t have to do the right thing. Because he wanted out.”

    If he wants out, than why is he stringing me along? It makes me angry because he says he wants to try, and I see him trying, but then on the other hand, I see him resisting trying. Doing the opposite of trying. This is so confusing!

  154.  #154T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Mel, please check out the link I posted earling but especially this one:

    The thing that stood out the most to me is that him looking at porn has NOTHING to do with you.

  155.  #155Mel on May 22, 2011 at 9:43 am

    …and Turquoise,

    I see you as a remarkably strong woman who knows what she wants and isn’t afraid to speak her truth. Thanks for all of your heartfelt posts to me and others!

  156.  #156Mel on May 22, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Thanks T-Girl!

  157.  #157Lilybelle on May 22, 2011 at 9:56 am

    142: Mel~

    I see that T-Girl posted a link to Tinques article on porn. I really feel she can be a great help to you regarding this.

    Big Hugs!!


  158.  #158Lilybelle on May 22, 2011 at 10:00 am


    YAY!!!! WHOO HOO!!! Big Time Congrats!!!



  159.  #159Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 10:12 am

    I could be married many times over if I weren’t so selective. So I guess I’m glad I’m single. But I’m not.

  160.  #160Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Thanks Boomer. Sometimes it just feels never ending… like I’ll always be this tired mom who works, takes care of kids, house, pets, throws a date in there somewhere, barely sleeps, cooks, and repeat. I need a life altering event! 🙂

    I’m done feeling sorry for myself today though. The music is blasting, windows are open, and the sun is shining. I have 5 hours until the girls get home and I’m getting this house cleaned, laundry done, and getting ready for my week! I just shampooed the carpets upstairs, always makes me feel better!!! Being this busy, with music blasting, always helps me clear the clutter from my mind, the things I think about over and over, what I should have said, done, etc. that I can’t change. I’ll check in as I pass the computer. 🙂

  161.  #161Jilly on May 22, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Goodmorning Sirens 🙂

    Lilybelee..good to see you.. 🙂 hows internet dating?? I want the latest! 😉

    T-Girl…did you see my post to you above? I’m wanting details too!! but now I know it’s pokerman…I feel so happy for you!

    Mel…dang it girl..i’m giving you lot of hugs!!..I wish I had something good to say but I don’t…other than I think you are being a saint…way nicer than I am that’s for sure

    Camile…you are doing awesome and I agree with T-Girl just let yourself cry…I’ve been noticing when other women cry now and I think it’s so beautiful and vulnerable..that’s funny that mike2 changed his a tune a little…good job with counting calories and getting back to you! :)..I agree with Kaitlyn that heavy weights are key but even more important than that is the intensity of the workout…also if/when you hit your next plateau take out the special k it is low in calories but it spikes the blood sugar which opens the door for fat storing (only replace it with protein, fruits or veggies) and see what happens 🙂

  162.  #162Lilybelle on May 22, 2011 at 10:23 am


    ((Jilly)) I have missed you while you were out fighting fires, girl!

    Things are good. It’s kind of funny but I have been presented with men who have forced me to take a look at what I want, and find out and set more boundaries. I feel strong and happy and am really enjoying the process.

    I just read “The List” and loved it and that coupled with Rori’s stuff has me feeling like a rock star. No more wasted time..

    I will have me a List man. I am so excited to meet him. 😉


  163.  #163Lilybelle on May 22, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Funny thing, one of my CD’s has weeded himself right out. By not stepping up, he asked for my digits and lost them so reverted back to emailing me. I get frustrated and bored with so much emailing and no depth.

    He asked me out on short notice Friday night and I told him I already had plans.

    He replied~ “Oh, a date tonight? Lucky you.

    I replied back, Not lucky me, lucky him.

    I wondered why he would say lucky me? I was thinking, guy, you have no idea what you just missed out on..

    This was the one who had me melting with his first email to me about wanting to date and spoil me. Turns out, he wasn’t so good at making it happen.


  164.  #164Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 10:51 am

    I feel horny when I sneeze.

  165.  #165T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Thanks for the congrats!. I feel like I’m on cloud 9 right now! I want this feeling to last forever. My NV’s are telling me not to mess this one up.

    Jilly – I met Poker Player while I was on a date with my no job guy. Unfortunately I ended up hurting no job guy…that is the hard part that I am still dealing with today.

    Turq: I totally get the no job thing. It was a huge issue for me with B. I’m sure it is only temporary but I saw some other things there that just told me there wasn’t any drive or motivation. So maybe it isn’t the same thing with your date? Sounds like he has a plan for his future. Mine didn’t.

    I’m so on cloud 9 today that I haven’t been very productive. I must get off the computer and get my butt to the grocery store! But I want to stay on my cloud longer 🙂

  166.  #166T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 11:04 am

    LOL Brenda. Sniff lots of pepper and have some fun girl! 🙂

  167.  #167kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 11:06 am

    132 Brenda,

    Juice is horrible for you, esp before bed. Juice is just sugar. The only juice worth it is veggie juice and only if you make it yourself.

  168.  #168kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 11:14 am


    if youre hungry before bed, boil some eggs and just eat the white. or eat a salad but no dressing, no croutons.

  169.  #169Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 11:16 am


    I recommend “Living Health”, by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond. I lost weight using their program. I proved them right:

    You can eat any amount of fruits and vegetables and lose weight (or maintain).

  170.  #170kaitlyn on May 22, 2011 at 11:18 am

    172 Brenda, I like that book and their other- Fit For Life. But don’t eat fruit before bed. and fruit juices are just sugar.

  171.  #171Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Welp…. I broke my washing machine. I tried to wash my comforter in it, it was too big, and I think I burned out the motor. It smells like when you burn out the blender… crap. Well, they have one at Sears that matches my new dryer that I can afford. Maybe my ex will pick it up for me. This washer is really old, not worth putting any money into.

    Back to cleaning. Mike2 texted and wanted to see me today, but told him I was getting stuff done at home before the girls got back. He asked when he could see me next and I said Thurs. would be my first free night. He said perfect! Guess the good thing about a guy without a job, they have lots of free time. LOL… OH MY LIFE!!!!!

  172.  #172Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 11:24 am

    I did put the AC in the girls’ room, unloaded the dish washer and cleaned out the tub, scrubbed the upstairs carpets, vaccumed downstairs, and changed the kitty litter. I’m doing 15 min. rotations in each room rather than finishing one room and moving on. I may not have each room perfect by the time I’m done, but overall everything will look better. 🙂 On to dust the living room. Be back in a bit. Anyone else cleaning today?

  173.  #173Corin on May 22, 2011 at 11:43 am

    I’m feeling angry, really angry. Im trying so hard to maintain my boundaries with my man P and it feels so hard and scary.

    Our last text convo went:
    HIM: setting out in 15 minutes xx (that would have made him around 2 hours plus later than arranged, no previous explanation that he would be or was running late)

    ME: I was getting bored and pissed off with waiting as you said X time so I’ve gone out.

    HIM: Ah, sorry. I was sorting out my food. Are we off for this evening then?

    ME: Yes I think that’s best.

    HIM: Okay.

    He has a history of lateness with me bottling up my resentment and feeling unappreciated and disrespected. I thought this time I could show him that I value me and my time more than hanging on for him. I guess I imagined he would be more apologetic and actually try to resolve this. That’s having an expectation though and I know I should be focussed on expressing myself and my boundaries rather than trying to get a result from him. It’s hard!

    Trying to release control and expectations and focus on him. Turning to love me. I’m feeling sad. I love my sadness. Feeling disrespected but that’s more a thought than a feeling, as is neglected, uncherished, unloved and all the other blaming, angry thoughts going round my head.

    I love me. Deep breaths. I’m going to focus on me and having a lovely evening with myself. I keep checking to see if he’s tried to contact me again. Why did he walk away so easily??? Does that mean that he doesn;t care? That he’s angry? I just don’t understand him. I don’t need to understand him though. I’m getting out of his head (which I can never be in anyway and so is just a projection of my Daddy complexes) and into my feelings. My…own…feelings.

    This feels anger, resentment, calms, energetic. Baby steps. Im standing up for my boundaries.

    I want to text him some feeling messages but that would be leaning forward and I’m hoping that he feels like crap right now.

  174.  #174mali on May 22, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Turquoise3 Re- 139 and Brenda:
    I’d suggest taking a look at the Cheat Your Way Thin diet by Joel Marion.
    Cheat Days are actually better than Cheat Meals for fat loss, as they boost leptin levels which become depleted after dieting.
    Try and fit in some resistance training using dumbbells and some High Intensity Interval Training when you can too. Resistance training with weights is incredible, as it spikes your metabolism so you’re actually burning fat at a faster rate for upto 72 hours after the workout! Plus, it releases all those endorphins which make you feel good 😉

  175.  #175Ella on May 22, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Re 175


    Yes I have been cleaning…

    Now just need to do some maintenance on me ie nails, fake tan, get hair done etc etc…

    🙂 xoxox

  176.  #176janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    hi barbara,
    #128 i so agree that it’s not about the lie, that it’s ALL about the betrayal At WhatEVER stage the relationship is in. yes!

    that is how i experience it anyway… that the BETRAYAL is the key element in the wound. not the lie, in and of itself.

  177.  #177janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    i fedel that same way. vulnerable that they might think i am interested. i think that’s why i have such a hard time with the 5 second look.
    i’m afrais they’ll think:
    “there’s a quick lay.” or
    “she’s easy.” or
    “what’s she lookin’ for?”
    i think my self talk around this has to do mainly with men thinking i am looking to get laid.
    because i’m not.

    i feel glad i wrote this out.
    i feel glad you processed your feelings aobut this here on the blog.

    i don’t want to get laid.
    i am not easy.
    i’m not desperte for a man.
    i won’t do anything a man what’s just because i want a man.
    i’m not one of those pathetic women who let’s herself be used just so she can say she “has” a man.
    i’m not looking for someone who will take care of me because i’m not capable of taking care of myself.
    i don’t need a man.
    i want a man.,
    i don’t have to have things from a man.
    i want a man who wants to give me things. including, and most of all, himself.

    defining myself.

  178.  #178janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    defining myself. so others don’t define me.

    who are they to put a definition on me?
    what do i care anyway?

    why am i letting men who are putting a definition on me that THEY want to have on me define me?
    why am i believing it?
    scared of it?
    letting it run me?
    why am i letting it keep me from meeting men who DON’T see me that way?

    HMMMM? why?
    why am i letting their projections of what they think “all” women are/want/do affect me?

    well, why am i projecting those things onto “all” men?????? looooooooooooooool
    oh Lord!~
    how did my mind get into this twiney tangled mess?
    stuffing and not speaking up and hoping and waiting and believing in something that wasn’t there in the first place.
    not trusting my instinct,
    not trusting MY gut.
    believing what other peope say instead of LOOKING,SEEING what they DO.

    DOING can’t lie for long.
    saying is just saying. Doing, ConSIStent DOING, that’s where the truth is — at least that’s the direction my gut is telling me to go right now…

  179.  #179gina on May 22, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    So the source of my current self imposed misery is…

    I believe that we were “meant to be”, but that I couldn’t love him fully when we were together because of deep insecurity. His and mine. I felt deeply dissatisfied on some level. He saw it and took the coldness very personal, as though it proved something negative about himself. And I needed his strength, not the expanding weakness, and I felt angry and he needed my warmth not the growing fury, and he felt mad. And we’re both sad because we just want to be together and love eachother.

  180.  #180janjune on May 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    hi lilybelle,
    what about THE LIST was the best, in your opinion?

  181.  #181gina on May 22, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    but maybe it’s just the “meant to be” part that’s getting me. Definitely. And the it’s the part that feels like it’s being tortured because he isn’t contacting me. It feels like torture.

  182.  #182janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:01 pm


    ” I’m doing 15 min. rotations in each room rather than finishing one room and moving on.”

    omg, love this idea! this will work! set the timer for fifteen min. and when it dings, GO!


  183.  #183janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:06 pm



    … just realized i started riffing in the middle of my comment #180 to you.

    i should have started a new comment after “i feel glad you processed your feelings about that here on the blog.”

    SORRY about that!

  184.  #184gina on May 22, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Maybe that’s why pop videos are about mind control: because the victim is in love with her torturer.

    How to get power back:

    Stop myself from thinking about this.

    I will not think about this. I am going to bring myself to the moment, to be present and sireny. It’s scary, though. I’ve been dabbling in it – powerful stuff. But I hate to admit that I’ve wussed out some. Like today – I didn’t go to the singles meeting after church. Gosh darnit.

    I intend to act like a good Christian Woman. I guess that shows that I don’t believe that I am one. Because I curse, I’m rude and I break rules sometimes. That sounds very immateur and noo good. But maybe good that I realize I believe that about myself. Ummm…last night I was in my body for the first time in forever. I felt like a little girl. I was with 2 other girls, and I was trying to out girl them. Sometimes I won! That feeling of being total sexy siren is so so good. I feel scared of it and eager for more and more. So far, Church, running, cleaning, organizing, being prompt, taking care of myskin, shopping, being sweet to people, remaining calm, finding quietness and peace, and going to bed at a reasonable hour are ways I could feel better more of the time. I think I’m going to give myself some rules and a schedule!

  185.  #185janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    ewww, i feel really bad.

    i know i’ve done that before, started riffing in the middle of a comment to someone.

    it has caused hard feelings.
    sometimes i didn’t identify it as riffing, even within my own head, but was just typing what was coming up for me at the time.

    this feels bad.
    i don’t like this.
    i don’t want to do this anymore.
    i want to slam the door on me doing this.

    i want to become more aware.

    i still feel bad.

    not just about saying that riffing stuff that sounds bitter, in the middle of a comment to someone, but because i know that whatever were’ doing here on the blog we’re doing in our real lives too.


    i feel bad about that.

  186.  #186janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    i’m going to go work in the flowers and process this…

  187.  #187janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    i feel really interested in the rules you come up with for yourself and maybe even the schedule, if you feel like sharing that.

  188.  #188Turquoise3 on May 22, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Well, house looks pretty good. Time to jump in the shower and get ready for the girls to come home and go to their softball game. Might do a little yard work if I have time…. feels great to be productive, but my mood is still crappy.

    Thanks for all the exercise and dieting advice! At this point, I barely exercise, so no matter what I do, has to help. My goal is to do cardio 4 to 5 times a week, and strength training 3. We’ll see how it goes! I’m so ready to slim down, feel sireny in my own skin!

  189.  #189janjune on May 22, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    i want to open that slammed door.
    i recognize that it’s just the part of me that’s trying to heal.
    i forgive myself.

    i forgive myself for my blunders.
    i forgive my self for my at times cluelessness
    i don’t have to be perfect.

    i accept the part of myself that is trying and applying itself to healing.
    i forgive myself.
    i love myself.
    i thank myslef. i thank myself for trying.
    for never giving up.
    for going through the hard parts.

    i love that part of me.
    thank you. i feel love and respect for that part of me.
    i feel compassionate.

  190.  #190Lucy on May 22, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    The idea of porn having “nothing to do with you” is precisely what makes it have Everything to do with you. Same with affairs.

  191.  #191Lucy on May 22, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Mel 156. If he’s anything like my ex, the answer to that is that he wants to stay married for his own reasons (inertia being one of several) but he doesn’t actually want the kind of relationship that goes with it, at least not all the time. It’s a have his cake and eat it too kinda thing. 🙁

  192.  #192tinque on May 22, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Lucy – “The idea of porn having “nothing to do with you” is precisely what makes it have Everything to do with you.”

    I don’t understand this.


  193.  #193Elizabeth on May 22, 2011 at 2:10 pm


    very nice, ella and janjune 🙂


  194.  #194Elizabeth on May 22, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    181 janjune

    “HMMMM? why?
    why am i letting their projections of what they think “all” women are/want/do affect me?”

    mmmm, yes, this rings a bell with me.

    I feel like if I totally be myself, rather than adhere to certain social norms or expectations that they are used to from women, they really won’t know what to do with me.

    But then I think that I’d much rather have it that way…. just being myself, however that is from moment to moment…. in order that the iconic man can recognize me, find me and blaze his own path with me.

    yeah, that feels right to me. 🙂


  195.  #195Elizabeth on May 22, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    letting go that belief that men don’t know what to do with me

    they want to make me happy, that’s what they want to do

    all it takes is to pay attention…and then they will know what will make me happy, not necessarily what they think will make me happy

    and making me happy will make them happy and we’ll be best friends with many wonderful benefits!

    not too difficult, n’est-ce pas?

    well, perhaps in theory, yes…..



  196.  #196Femininewoman on May 22, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    RE 147 Mel that is what Gay Hendricks talk about in his book, I believe it was The Big Leap. Commitment is what he suggests to use to overcome those obstacles. It is great that you notice the pattern. Working on changing that, at least your end of it is what is the next step.

  197.  #197jackie on May 22, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    thank you Jeanette

    He is a Virgo – and I am a Scorpio – so definitely a possibility that we are going to come at this at different speeds 🙂

    But yes – I am ashamed to say it didnt even cross my mind to simply ask him what he is looking for! I have had all sort of speeches and feeling monologues planned and scrapped in my head – and ultimately that is really what I need to know in one simple undemanding unneedy question!

    Thank you – I will let you knoe how it goes if he gets back in touch… which I hope he does. It would be such a shame to have allowed something so lovely to fizzle out because I was too afraid to show my feelings and be vulnerable 🙁

  198.  #198DE on May 22, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Wow…when men return…

    Yesterday morning, I got an interesting txt from someone I didn’t recognize asking “how are things?”
    It turned out it was a guy my girl met while she was here in town…the same nite, I met my intense chemistry guy A about six weeks ago …

    He txt me because he could not remember whose number it was…while the initial conversation was hilarious (he forgot why and from whom he had the number)…he sent me a picture…

    I immediately started to laugh…it was my girl’s guy…lol…I asked him if he knew my girl…and he immediately made the connection…saying…”oh, now I remember…my friend A asked me to ask her for u number…and are u okay for him to call u?” I responded “it would feel good to hear from him”…

    So, last nite I went out all feeling fabulous…called it the nite earlier…and came home…around 2:30 am I get a call…guess who…it was A…I was half asleep…but made an effort to hear him…

    It is interesting that he deleted my number…after our weekend together…he asked for sexual exclusivity…and while I tentatively agree to it…I expressed that I will remain open to dating other men until we get to know one another…

    I haven’t heard from him…although, I had run into him twice since…First time, a week later..I felt tense and not open…yet, I didn’t express it….rather playing all cool and stuffing my feelings of disappointment for not hearing from him …

    About a month later, we saw one another but I did not stop to say hello…

    So, now, here he was…apologetic once more…I told him that while I feel very happy to hear from him and reconnect, I don’t feel safe because of his disappearance…he wanted to see me right then …to make it up to me…

    Hmm…it felt like déjà vu again…boundaries pushed, uncomfortable, unsafe… yet part of me…felt turned on and feeling the excitement that a hot man was desiring her once more…
    The conversation ended…

    This morning around 10 he txt again that he wants to see me…

    I responded positively in FM..

    Then again, my boundaries got pushed…something about “now, today, at your place…I miss u…I want to try it again, I promise I won’t disappear…I am ready…” yet he disregarded my request to meet in a public place, take baby steps to getting to know one another and feeling safe…

    Again, I responded…”I feel pressured…and it does not feel good”….

    He said something else…and I did not respond because it did not feel good 🙁

    Couple of hrs later …he asked “are u saying no then?
    I responded…”I say yes to dating u, getting to know u, appreciate u, and loving u…”

    A few more responses…it only made me feel worse…and I certainly expressed it…

    At this point I feel thankful for expressing my boundaries and the opportunity for a do over…yet, the energy feels low right now…I feel drained, disappointed, a bit discouraged… Focusing on me today…

  199.  #199Daria on May 22, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Uhoh I feel frightened.

    I thought rigging was appropriate and a natural feminine voice thing and I do it often in the middle of my comments to someone. And I felt good about that like yes! I’m getting back to me and focusing on me like Rori says

    And now I feel doubtful like uhoh what if I get less love! Less love because I’m focusing on me and not the other person, what if it actually makes me disconnect ! Oh no!

    Or oh no what if I get less love. Janjune wrote something with the belief that seems opposite mine and what if I’m then judged and misunderstood.

    What of everyone thinks I should say sorry for riffing in my posts halfway through a comment.

    What if everyone feels judgemental towards me all the time.

    I KNOW they do.

    I feel scared and lonely.

    I feel attacky towards myself.

    That I’m being pushy and wanting Janjune to believe different.

    So I can feel safe and supported and free!

    I feel confused.

    I feel sad.

    I feel excited to have engaged in this looking at my feelings process and see what happens now. Something good I think will happen.

  200.  #200Daria on May 22, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I feel so sad reading some of the commments!


  201.  #201Daria on May 22, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    And some feel exciting like yay!

    Feeling a lil frightened by the intense wind outside.

  202.  #202Mel on May 22, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    199: FW,

    Can you expand on this a little? What role does commitment play in stopping self-sabotage?

  203.  #203Ella on May 22, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Rosa re 129,

    Yes I am beginning to feel rather detached and put off.

    I too feel uncomfortable at the thought of the children with lots of new women each moment…

    And I have been trying to hold off judgement and tbh I just feel kinda icked out with the whole situation.

    At the moment I am finding it hard not to be judgemental.

    My feelings are disconnected, slightly disgusted, and still a bit angry.

    I feel good about my personal progress though!

    Also Rosa so pleased to read earlier about how well things are going for you!


  204.  #204Ella on May 22, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Hey Daria,

    I also felt a lil weird/scared of being judged because I am forever going off into riffs in the middle of my reply to someone.

    Because that is what flows naturally.

    Btw I do want to join in one of your tele classes in the future.

    Would you mind re-posting link to the documents and recording that go with the first one?

    My life has just been so busy I didn’t have the space to get involved…

    Hope all is well with Siren Daria!


  205.  #205Ella on May 22, 2011 at 4:29 pm


    Don’t worry, I am not offended at all!

    In fact I like that you startin riffing. You are just jumping off of my comments and my post, and then it is your stuff coming out and that is great.

    It feels good to share and learn.

    Hugs. xoxox

  206.  #206Ella on May 22, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    I feel a lil sad as well reading some of the comments also.

    Janjune this popped out at me

    “i’m not one of those pathetic women who let’s herself be used just so she can say she “has” a man.”

    … because I hate the idea of being like that too.

    And I know that if I am being judgemental of those women then I am being judgemental of that part of me too.

    And I know there is a part of me like that… and I am working to love and accept her too.

    After all aren’t they just women looking for love just like we are? Doing they best they can and vulnerable like us?

    However accepting the idea of not judging others in order to fully accept myself is one I still struggle with and find very triggering.

    I mean what about the people who do cruel and awful things…

    But I am getting less judgemental and more accepting, and even if I don’t approve of what someone is doing, or I feel uncomfortable and bad around them I can still accept them as a person, and know that somewhere inside of me there is a part that is like that, however small.


  207.  #207femenergylove on May 22, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    so i called cd#1 phone and his ex picked up.he apparentlly showed up at he her house at 6 in the first she was sassy,but i calmly spoke to her and eventually she calmed down and told me that he loves her becasue he always comes back to her,and i should forget about having a relatiosnhip with him coz he always goes back to her and that its her tht he loves.we spoke for like 15 mins then hang was cordial and actually nice for me to get perspective on things and finally know what was going on.then she called me 3 hours later after he had left and she was crying etc and i spoke to her for 3 hours just talking to her about how hurt she is that he does this etc,and that he told her that he had been spending a lot of time with me and how he had feelings for me but did not want a relationship and how she has asked him if he ever imagined being with her and his answer is always no,but he does this showing up thing anyway etc….i spoke to her as best i could and i advised her that she can only control herself.he told her that if i called him he would tell me he does not want a relationship.he told me this before and i had accepted it and was having a good time with him actually.and sure of course he has not called me today seeing as he woke up to me and her on the phone,he wont.and this i am peaceful about too.i dont know if i did the right thing with talking to her though.i mean it was a relief for me,to finally get some background on his puzzling behavior,and it was interesting to see myself and my past mistakes in her.and to try and guide her in the right direction…but am i stupid?did i do the right thing?should i not have picked up the second time she called.i still really like him and for me its no big surprise that this happened,i asked for clarity and i got it,maybe i have had time to deal with my feelings etc,but is there something wrong with me?should i not be angry?or hurt?why am i calm,what do i need to know?to learn from this?i did not know i would ever ever have a heart as big as i do,to do what i did today.its a shame..he was fun! 🙂

  208.  #208Ella on May 22, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    DE re 201


    And Well Done for holding your boundaries… it is so hard sometimes and you are looking so much stronger than you did a few months ago!

    This is giving him a chance to really step up for you. Or if not him then someone else and will raise your self esteem.

    I have been having similar experiences with men recently with them coming back towards me and me feeling really excited but them pushing my boundaries.

    Me sticking to my boundaries and then nothing happens… for a bit anyway 😉

    Each time I am being a bit braver and it gets easier.

    Harder with guys I really like though.

    Mr pub man got me all excited this weekend, coming more forward than ever before. I allowed some flexibility in my boundary by agreeing to meet him last minute and quite late at night to talk but it was to be also on my terms (ie he was to come and get me and it was to be strictly talking only, then he was to walk me home).

    He let me down anyway and expected me to come to him etc which just isn’t gonna happen so boundary went straight back up with some FMs too.

    Turned down another guy who offered me wine, dinner and dancing because he wanted me to go to meet him in the city and then he would get a hotel… on a 2nd date.

    I said I felt uncomfortable and he didn’t step up to look after those feelings so nothing happened. I could have gone but I am not comfortable with a hotel on 2nd date… or travelling to a man.

    I would rather wait till there is a man who respects my feelings and need to babystep and be comfortable. Someone who will stay the distance to earn my trust.

    Ow I feel worried sometimes that no-one ever will, but the practicing is great… and men are getting better!

    But don’t get me wrong these guys can still get me excited.

    And I can feel deflated when I stand up for myself and then they flake.

    But I can see a strength shining from you DE and your vibe feels good.

    And I hope I am getting that way too!


  209.  #209femenergylove on May 22, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    now i’m sad 🙁 sad sad sad…..

  210.  #210Lercomari on May 22, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Thank you sooo much Daria, janjune, Jilly and DE 🙂 I still feel really good about this practice. I will read more of the ebook today. I was talking to my mom today, about how we both have similar tempraments. We are both soft-spoken and avoid conflict…until the anger and frustration build up so much that we explode in arguments and accusations later. With Rori’s way I can express myself without being dramatic…I feel so appreciative that there is a way for me to do that.

  211.  #211femenergylove on May 22, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    going to bed.sleep well y’all.

  212.  #212Lercomari on May 22, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    @Ella 211,

    I feel admiration for you. You stand by your boundaries very well and you’re not willing to compromise. Have you heard how women are like apples? You’re an apple at the top of the tree…waiting for the right man who is brave and willing enough to climb tot he top and pluck you. 🙂 Keep it up!

  213.  #213Lilybelle on May 22, 2011 at 5:21 pm



    Honestly, the whole book was good but what has really stuck with me is this:

    The Alarm. And, if he wants to be with you, there isn’t anything that will get in his way. Because, you have caused his alarm to go off. Nothing will get in his way, including other men we may or may not be dating. I posted something about this on the previous thread and mentioned Jilly’s and LD’s guys being “List” men.

    It was like a light bulb went off in my head and bells, whistles and sirens started going off. Another true aha moment.

    Have you read?


  214.  #214DE on May 22, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Ella #211:

    Thank you for the feedback…It feels good to hear from you.

    Yes, I feel very strong these days…and kind of weird as in a bit afraid of my own “power”…

    I haven’t dated for a while now…A was my only quick escape in six months…

    Although, I went out almost every weekend and interacted with many men, nobody got my number the last couple of months…till Friday nite…I met an Irish man …quite handsome…My girl said he could take his eyes of me and although, he left the lounge before I did with his guys, he txt me very quickly wanting to reconnect at a club…

    At the club, it was playing a favorite song and I run for it to the dance floor…and I briefly waved at him…hmm…didn’t see him after…

    It’s all good…The fact that men are beginning to show more interest it’s a good thing…that means I am opening up my channels to “love”…

    Calling in the One book is amazing…I just bought the book and the exercises are awesome…

    Still the blog is great place to riff, get feedback, be accountable, and manifest u desires…

    You are strong Ella!!! I feel curious why you doubt that…by stating “I hope I am getting that way too”…

    Imagine for a moment how would it feel to be strong…embrace that moment and the intensity of the feelings associated with it…treasure it…and Believe it!!!

    Warm hugs,

  215.  #215Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I’m watching the movie, “Waterworld” with Kevin Costner. It puts me in a weird mood of unreality.

  216.  #216Jeannette on May 22, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    I have sort of weird question sirens, but here goes. Tonight I was at a party where my fiance and his very beautiful and yes sexy cousin were talking a lot and it started to make me jealous. I think she was flirting with her own cousin! I feel silly for being jealous but when I wasn’t around he sure was talking to her a lot..can cousins have chemistry like that?! Should I even feel jealous? Should I ever say anything? I feel stupid for feeling jealous!!

  217.  #217Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:04 pm


    I wouldn’t worry about it! I know with my cousins, it feels good to relax a little and love on them like brothers! Just try to focus on their happiness in having a harmonious relationship.

  218.  #218T-Girl on May 22, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    So I went to a event tonight which was a potluck and relationship talk. There were an equal amount of men and women there. I started talking about the whole feminine/masculine energy thing and the women were looking at me like I was nuts and all the men were agreeing with me. The funny thing is when I left, one of the men came running out after me and asked me if I was slightly religious. He said he agreed with everything I said and thought he was the only one that picked up that I may be slightly religious. I don’t see the correlation but I thought it was interesting observation.

  219.  #219Daria on May 22, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    I’m feeling really good and strong and solid.

    I was feeling Very needy and thinking things like ‘why don’t am I not attracting any guys to have sex with that want to go down on me And I find attractive’. And then started to think of this one guy that maybe I Could have sex w him, even tho I feel tightened tummy and throat and a lil bit nauseaus thinking about it, though a bit more open thinking of him going down on me than about sex

    This is a familiar feeling I’ve had w men in the past

    And I was feeling overall needy and vulnerable and shaky and unsure of myself

    Then I listened to some Rori programs and am now feeling solid and excited, and even took an awesome babystep communicating with my mom

    I am Not feeling needy, although sone of the thoughts about wanting sex and not having it have come back mow while I wrote this post – and I feel afraid to get back to that icky feeling place

    I feel confused

    It feels surprising to me that I will be wanting sex, yet listening to Rori teaching will take me to feeling happy and excited about possibilities and now I’m no longer wanting sex.

    It feel confusing.

    I winder what I can learn about myself here?

  220.  #220Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Go T-Girl!

  221.  #221Lucy on May 22, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Jeannette, my female cousins flirt with my brother and talk about how hot he is. One of them said to me, “I bet you wish he wasn’t your brother!” which was kinda creepy bc I definitely never wished that the way they were thinking!

  222.  #222Lucy on May 22, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    T-girl, the masc/fem energy thing is a very common teaching in fundamentalist Chr*stianity. Maybe that’s why he said that.

  223.  #223Brenda on May 22, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    I want a family.

  224.  #224Daria on May 22, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Dear Daria,

    I feel dizzy sitting here looking at the computer.

    and i feel warm and soft and moved thinking of your babysteps today

    i feel awed and impressed with your tenaciousness and the huge amount of snowball energy you have created and dedicated to your healing and creating your life

    i wish i could be as strong and powerful as you.

    you inspire me.



  225.  #225RiverGirl on May 22, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Feeling a bit sad at the moment. I’ve been looking around at some different dating sites as things seem to have come to a screaming halt on the ones I’ve been on. Signed up to one and without even having a profile done, or photos, I started getting messages left right and centre from guys wanting to chat. It seems like most of them are married (profiles say single) and bored with their wives, wanting some action via webcam. Yuck! Got in lots of practise stating my boundaries about that! They want to keep talking though and I end up being the counsellor every time I log on. Why can’t these guys talk to their wives?!
    I’ve also been hearing from a girlfriend about quite a few men that I know who are trying to hook up online behind their wives’ backs.
    Is that the reality out there? Are there no men who will be faithful or at least honest with their wives? I am exaggerating and I do know that there are good men but I worry that I might miss the red flags. I need to trust my own judgement, but wonder at the same time if by trying to protect myself, I am closing myself off.

  226.  #226Daria on May 22, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    How can I say or use this:

    I want to be married and have a family, and I want to have lovers and learn about sex right now, even before that cones up for me

  227.  #227Daria on May 22, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    It sounds like I am pushing marriage off into the future.

    I do feel unsure about it, especially without having had sex practice and learning how to feel fulfilled sexually.

    I still want to experience having sex with attractive men – plural.

    Will this push marriage away for me?

    I feel confused. Rori?

  228.  #228Daria on May 22, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    I felt triggered last time I saw getright.

    I felt attracted to him again when he grumbled to the whole room about how my playing w my hair was sexy and it was making him hard

    Then he came and picked me up and I melted in his arms and smiled and he put me down grumbling about hmm what was wrong then. As I was feeling cold quiet yet I was able to fully melt in his arms.

    then he said some critical things of me

    And then I felt neglected as he was paying attention to my friend who was drunk

    Anyway I suddenly felt really bad and humiliated and I felt so much better when I talked to my drunk dancing friend the next day about how I don’t want to be friends w girls who would flirt w guys i like in front of me and I felt heard and cared about by her

    I feel glad too I moved away from connecting w past drunk friend who I did not feel good with.

    Yay I feel kinda excited writing this.

  229.  #229Daria on May 23, 2011 at 12:00 am

    Ella – I will delink the teleclass and highlight it on the document to make it easy to find.

  230.  #230Daria on May 23, 2011 at 12:01 am


  231.  #231janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:19 am

    #104 yeh, i remembered that you had not been upfront with adam, i just felt impressed with the way you were being honest with yourSELF.

  232.  #232janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:34 am

    196, 197
    oh it feels good to get some feedback on this. thanks for your thoughts on that.
    i feel so self-conscious.
    i know i’m STUCK.
    i can feel the conflict now, since learning rori’s Tools.

    i feel caught between what i believe in my heart is right, which is that women should and DO have the right to free expression of their sexuality OR “NOT” expressing it at all if that’s what they choose
    knowing, really knowing, that the old double standard persists.

    i am finding myself being aware of this too much right now so am just taking that as a nudge that it needs to be explored.

  233.  #233janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:38 am

    i just felt bad that i started riffing some icky feeling (to me) stuff in the middle of a comment to ella.

    i wished i would have been more aware of my process and started another comment before riffing kind of negativ-ey type stuff.

    i don’t see that anyone else has to do it that way though, it’s just something i want to do for me.

  234.  #234Rosa on May 23, 2011 at 12:40 am

    Rivergirl ,

    I hear you . I got really pee’ed off at one stage then i did a rethink. I now do the following…

    -no free sites – you get what you pay for .

    -no IM on the site itself-they seem to be looking for sex talk usually .

    -avoid sites that the guys can flick through profiles disengages their visual gear ! It reduces the comparison factor and engages the “get real” gear 🙂

    I now use e-harmony mostly as I have had HIGH QUALITY dates from there over and over again including genuine , educated , employed people who just realise that window shopping isnt the answer to their partner search (2 docs, a journalist ,finance manager and a solicitor for starters ). I am currently seeing 2 from this siten and let another go due to recent surgery. I think the computer matching has been working well for me and them too it seems)

    Hope this helps River Girl , now I gotta go and get ready for my pizza date with Dr Fruity 🙂

  235.  #235Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 12:45 am

    There’s always SOMETHING for which to be thankful!

    I just went to the bathroom, and when I wiped myself, the ring I was just given fell off…in the toilet!

    Thank God I only peed! (**Yikes!**)

  236.  #236Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 12:46 am

    Time for bed. I took a long nap and so I’m up until 3:45 am. I am moving. Yay! I can’t wait to get out of here! It never felt like home, because I never felt welcome.

  237.  #237janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:48 am

    i feel like (think) my mind mixes everything together.
    i want to start separating thoughts.
    i feel like (think) i have blamed people who aren’t to blame.
    i feel like i blame me when it’s not my fault.
    everything feels like its’ on top of the other thing in my mind.
    i don’t want that anymore.
    i want to just trust my feelings.
    MY feelings.
    not what other people say i’m supposed to feel, not putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my head or feling my feelings for me and then telling me their mine.

    ook. this feels gurgitat-ey.
    i feel a little sick.
    that feels like billowwiness between my stomach and eusophagus(?)
    slightly light headed

    okay im okay now.
    it will pass
    i don’t have to do that anymore.
    i can feel my feelings and ride my horse and be okay being who i am.
    without wondering who will leave.

  238.  #238janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:58 am

    good! i feel relieved. it doesn’t bother me either if someone starts riffing in the middle of a comment.
    i feel glad to know you could tell it was just me jumping off your post and that the comments were about my own stuff…

  239.  #239janjune on May 23, 2011 at 1:04 am

    ella #209,
    those words jumped out at me too when i wrote them but left them in because it really was coming up that way for me.
    i dont’ understand it.
    thanks for your words and for sharing your thoughts, it’s helping me process this issue.

  240.  #240Kyla on May 23, 2011 at 1:06 am

    @ FW

    Yes, I completely agree with you! and I’m not in masculine/decision making mode with ex husband at all, I know the way I was relating to him was getting us nowhere and I need to try something different. I’m in feminine energy 100% and speaking in feeling messages/speeches and giving him the chance to take the lead for how to work this, the logistics etc. I’m remaining open to all suggestions and making a conscious effort not to dismiss anything he says and to hold space because I know this is hard on him. I know things might get harder before they get better but he can ‘hear’ me now and is actually discussing things with me (never happened before!) and so at least we can communicate through the difficult stuff.

  241.  #241janjune on May 23, 2011 at 1:58 am

    what i’m feeling right now is that i feel like women buy into what men tell us we have to be in order for them to find us worthy. i loved having the sailors here but alot of that was because there was an opportunity to just see them doing the things rori says. alot of the time they were telling the sirens the same things that we hear all the time from men and from our culture, as opposed to the things rori says *work* in making a connection with a man.

    im riffing here. not making judgements, just calling out these perceptions that seem to be in error with my spirit and heart.

    1. we are, should i say IAM pathetic when i fall for it? when i believe there is something i can do, something i can do TO me, besides just BE me to become attractive and worthy enough for a man to not even *care* about me, but just tolerate me?
    2. i feel afraid of men viewing women (this woman being Me) as pu$$y and not as people.
    3. i feel stonewall about women expressing themselves sexually.
    4. i feel pissed that women who express themselves freely sexually are given labels.
    5. i feel overly guarded that i don’t give off even a hint of being easy.
    i feel stifled.
    i feel smothered by knowing there are labels for women who express their sexuality in ways that men don’t want them to.
    6. i feel uncurious as to why men don’t like it when women express themselves freely and liberally sexually. or rather, why they
    DO “like” it, but then call women names.
    i don’t trust that.
    7. i don’t want to act a certain way because i will be called a name if i don’t.
    8. i want my freedom. i want freedom to do what sounds good to me without being called names.
    9. i want my freedom to NOT do that same thing as well, based upon my OWN choice–*not* based upon knowing i will be called certain names if i do do it.

    so i think the pathetic part here is in all the trying and all the listening to what someone else says and i’m very aware that this is something i do. have done. am trying to become aware of not doing anymore.
    i think i am getting to the core of this.
    that other peoples, and the cultures thoughts and ideas are all mixed in with mine and i just never have given myself permission to separate them.
    which leads to not feeling my feelings.
    stuffing it down, drowning it out.
    am i rejecting this that i feel is pathetic in me.
    i’ve never thougth of myself consciously as pathteic and yet im saying that women who do xyz are pathetic.
    or am i saying IT’s pathetic?

    i know im saying
    it’s pathetic that men will chase a woman down for sex and then call her names afterward.
    AnD that women are so trained to not feel our feelings that we can’t even hear ourselves.
    And that it’s pathetic that women can’t enjoy their sexuality without being called negative names, even if she wants to.
    and i really don’t even care that men CAN without being called names, but only that women Can’t.
    because they really can’t.
    and this bugs me.

    And it feels pathetic to me to see women chasing after the wind, trying to keep ahold of a man who doesn’t want her (i’m thinking of someone in particular). i want to tell her “please, stop, you’re more than that, more than what he tells you you are.”

    so is that person me? is the person i’m talking to someone else but its really me who needs to hear those words?
    is this the “mirror” thing?
    i don’t know. but i’d say yes, probably is.

    it seems all these projections coming up for me right now are about “some”thing. something very important.

    i don’t usually feel scared to post my feelings but i do about this.
    this feels like a core issue for me.
    i’m scared to post.
    i don’t want to
    i feel exposed naked vulnerable unprotected afraid, not of anybody here or that anyone will say anything but about facing this issue as it doesn’t seem like it has a resolution.

  242.  #242janjune on May 23, 2011 at 2:00 am

    no i haven’t read The List.
    yes, the ALARM concept was something i picked up on big Big time from the comments made on earlier posts.
    thanks for sharing that.

  243.  #243janjune on May 23, 2011 at 2:20 am

    yes, i AM afraid of that vulnerable part of me.
    i want to claim it.
    her. and love that part of me too and not reject or be afraid of or disown that part.
    i want that part of me that is openly seeking and reaching out for what i want and who i want. that’s not so afraid that everything gets rejected before it even begins.
    i see that’s pretty much where i’ve been.

    this feels great.

  244.  #244janjune on May 23, 2011 at 2:23 am

    and the sex thing, well i’ll just have to deal with that later because
    it’s so so late here.

    goodnight, if anybody besides me is still up 🙂

  245.  #245Jeannette on May 23, 2011 at 5:36 am

    I feel sad, because no matter how hard I try and look nice, which I have been told I look very nice for my age, my man still looks at other women…..not to access but I can tell he’s thinking. I think men do a lot of comparing, their woman to others…..I think men do that more then women. I wonder….are there men out there that don’t do that? Doesn’t that sound nice? I had such a good time last night. But I don’t like Steve’s cousin Sandy and I feel very sad that Steve spent so much time talking to her. I feel sad that I am just not good enough and I certainly don’t want to feel like that….Sad….Steve doesn’t give me that much anyway….If any thing, I may be taking care of him down the road with his sickness. I don’t mind but I want a man devoted to me in spirit. He does tell me I’m pretty though. But why do men have to be looking when a pretty woman is around or even wants their attention? As soon as Sandy walking into the party yesterday, Steve went up to her. I want a man that is just into me….really I do…..Authentically that is, not just for my body but in EVERY WAY….Should I tell Steve my feelings? What should I do. I want to feel comfortable in this but I’m a little embarrassed, SAD, that I feel this way……

  246.  #246Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 6:00 am

    RE 214 Jeannette reading that left me wondering how it reflects on your state of mind or maybe your relationship patterns. Is it that you are not getting enough attention from him so that when you do you want him all to yourself?

  247.  #247Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 6:04 am

    RE 249 Jeannette that reminds me of the Interview CD I got from Rori with Tinque. Don’t you look at other men? My understanding is that helps to turn them on and he brings those feelings to you. I have one guy around me who says all the time that he “samples the menu by looking” but he doesn’t order. It doesn’t make me like him anymore or less but just gives me a peek into his mind. I believe many men look and flirt with other women, maybe it is just a man quirk, as in them being themselves?

  248.  #248Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 6:06 am

    RE 244 That was great to read Kyla.

  249.  #249Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 6:50 am

    RE SPAMMER. I had replied to ask who are you and got this in return.
    How are you this moment? .
    I hope this my mail will reach you in good condition of health,l am really happy for your reply, I will really like to have a good relationship with you, and I have a special reason why I decided to contact you because of the urgency of my situation here and I am ( MISS. Lizzy) 22 years girl ft5.4. wt 54 Democratic Republic du Côte d’Ivoire i am the only daughter of ( LATE DR.ABDOULAYE TOURE, )

    The deputy minister of national security before his death , he was also chairman managing director ( OF DIAMONDS COMPANY LTD ABIDJAN ) in the capital of my country , and he also exports diamonds, coffee, cobalt copper, water. My father was killed along side with my beloved mother by some hoodlums,who parades themselves as political thugs they accuse my father of coup attempt ( which he never did ) In this last elections between President Laurent Gbagbo and his Dr.Alassane Ouattara election contested presidential which was hold on 28 November 2010 and my parents where killed on December 05 2010 .

  250.  #250Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 7:20 am

    I can really understand your reluctance and fear at posting your feelings about this very core issue close to the heart of not only our sexual identity, but, as women attempting to express fully in this world.

    That is what makes me feel pathetic. A feeling of oppression and the sense that many men are at a loss about these things also, what their place is at this point in our evolution.

    I don’t want to “buy-in” to the old dynamics any longer. I want to abandon all the labelling, and instead just be able to shine, in all my glory, without worrying that I will be thought of in a derogatory way.

    Part of my on-going solution to this, is in having made a commitment to myself to try to be aware enough to no longer engage in total relationship with men who have not done a lot of inner work.

    I feel fortunate because I feel stronger and stronger about knowing I do not have to compromise key things like that just to have a man. I may be “hot”, have a healthy libido and all, but I’m not so hot to trot unless all the conditions are met. I give myself permission to be a hot-house flower!

    In fact, a man who genuinely appreciates and is excited to go on a discovery tour to try to unravel the mystery that is me, not driven by the societal trappings, is what turns me on. A man who is not controlled by these conditionings, no matter what else he’s got going on in the power and status and looks categories.

    I’d like to believe that my days of trying to reform any of them are over and done with, but I can’t know that for sure. Because the possibility exists that I could get hooked in again, playing out some blind spots that I still have.

    In my *ideal* world, any man I have a total relationship with will have already done much work on their own and we can work together to continue to transform and grow without going over the same old worn out treads.

    Of course, I have been accused of wanting a man to fit into my “idealistic paradigm” !!

    What are your thoughts ? I am glad you brought this up.


  251.  #251Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 7:41 am

    RE 254 Elizabeth I believe men have their own ideals also. Who knows, you might just meet one of those whose ideals match yours 75% and then you can work together on the rest.

  252.  #252Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 7:43 am

    All the comparing you keep doing will only lead to continued suffering for you. Insecurity and jealousy are very limiting and will compromise your own happiness in relationship with Steve. If you make him really aware of those emotions, or you allow them to have a life of their own, it will make you less attractive in his eyes. There are so many beautiful, sexy, interesting people out there for us all to appreciate and enjoy. I like what FW says in 251, that this can stoke us in our significant other relationships.


  253.  #253Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Hi FW, I’m just so glad I got over the six month deal with my self-esteem intact, and probably even better than it was before. I feel really strong and quite pleasantly surprised that I was able to do it this fast.
    It’s because of all the work.

  254.  #254Lucy on May 23, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Jeannette, yes, there Are men who have eyes only for their woman. Usually, though, if a man is not this way already, he won’t change even if you express your feelings. It comes from inside him, not from external requirements. I see it as a compatibility issue – both men and women have varying degrees of desire for involving others in their sex lives, from flirting to ogling to porn to swinging and everything in between. It’s important to be with a man we are compatible with in that area.

  255.  #255Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Lucy I remember reading something from Rori about some men who just have to cheat.

  256.  #256tinque on May 23, 2011 at 11:19 am

    “there Are men who have eyes only for their woman. Usually, though, if a man is not this way already, he won’t change even if you express your feelings. It comes from inside him, not from external requirements”

    This is very true Lucy, but know too that all men notice other women, and this is not a bad thing. A man can appreciate something about another woman, maybe even be briefly turned on, and he can then turn to you with love in his heart and mind, NO confusion whatsoever.

    There is a huge difference between a brief glance and all and out ogling, huge. The latter is obviously disrespectful let alone I don’t know what.

    Other women ARE good for you. Men love feminine energy. It fills them in ways nothing else can, but this builds up to be bestowed on you.


  257.  #257Goodheart on May 23, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Jilly, I don’t know if you remember me – I haven’t been on the blog in about a year, but I still read it from time to time & am so happy to see you so happy! Law of Attraction really resonates with me too & it helped me tremendously (along with Rori’s tools) to attract many great things into my life – including my current relationship (of 9 months now!) I, too, think of Sienna often & sure would love to hear how she is doing. We were separated at birth afterall 🙂 SIENNA, are you out there?

    It’s truly all about self-love & self-trust. The Universe doesn’t respond to who you are. It responds to who you think you are. So think the best of yourself & the Universe will send you proof of it! So amazing.

    Warms thoughts & love to all of you!

  258.  #258T-Girl on May 23, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Congrats on your 9 mo relationship Goodheart!

  259.  #259janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    are you ready yet to lean back? waaaay back and then see what steve does?
    he might be experiencing clinginess.
    i would feel clingy too if my fiancee was doing the things you’re describing. but that’s when rori says to do the lean back Big Time as in leeeeeeean baaaaaack. and then stay there.
    and be surprised.
    in the meantime maybe you could start writing out your “i don’t wants”.
    if steve comes toward you (and he may not) when you lean back, you’ll have your i don’t wants ready to communicate them to him when he steps up.
    then even more leaning back, i suspect, would be necessary, in order to give him time to process the change in the relationship. ((hugs))

  260.  #260janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    #254 your pov is so helpful to me in processing this right now.
    it sounds like you’ve already worked the ground i’m plowing through. i was able to assimilate, emotionally, some of what you said at a really deep level. it felt profound, as in addressing the heart of the matter. these concepts, which i know aren’t the exact expressions you made, did resonate really deeply, addressing my questions and perceptions, giving spot-on food for thought so thank you for sharing i feel grateful to receive your words.

    -men not knowing their place in our evolution.
    i know it’s hard for them too. and confusing.
    oh, the following just went right into my heart:
    -“Part of my on-going solution to this, is in having made a commitment to myself to try to be aware enough to no longer engage in total relationship with men who have not done a lot of inner work.”
    that feels like an excellent Home Base.
    -a man who genuinely appreciates and is excited to go on a discovery tour to try to unravel the mystery…
    of life and of themselves and me and us together and life again
    -A man who is not controlled by these conditionings
    yes! a man who *THINKS*.
    -my days of trying to reform any of them are over
    yes, and why even try? it’s not my job…
    -playing out some blind spots that I still have
    yes, forgiving myself for blind spots that are still there. embracing them. loving them. thanking them. being thankful for being shown them. being excited to move forward. in forgiveness. without blame. without regrets. without expecting something from someone else that isn’t even there just because i want it to be there. moving toward change and growth and happiness. moving forward on my bridge with a river of men flowing under.
    until one stops and claims me.

    -any man I have a total relationship with will have already done much work on their own
    this is mandatory. i’m feeling a little more confident that i can actually tell now if they have done this or not. with the Tools.
    i knew i couldn’t tell before, so just quit trying. my man picker was soooooo off. uuuuughh
    -we can work together.
    this is a point that would be necessary for me. it’s a non-negotiable item.
    -to transform and grow
    that is the whole point of life, to me.
    i could not be in total relationship happily with a man who was not about transforming and growing and encouraging the efforts of those around him to do the same.
    ((hugs, hugs))) elizabeth

  261.  #261Violet on May 23, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Hello, Sirens!

    I’ve been seeing a man 7 yrs my junior for about a month now. I’ll being using his initials ‘WF’ in my posting(s).

    I’m not ready to to have a serious relationship with WF, however, I have been feeling the urge to get physically intimate. That is more due to wanting sexual satisfaction than it is towards wanting to consummate our relationship.

    WF has said he’s ready for physical intimacy, but is leaving it up to me to decide if and/or when.

    The relationship would feel serious once physical intimacy is brought into the picture. That is one reason I’m holding off. Another reason is that one month of ‘dating’ doesn’t feel long enough to go that direction.

    I like the feeling of being in charge of myself. I feel good in knowing I am doing the right thing for myself.

    I’m wanting him to work hard towards ‘catching me’. I want him to know that he needs to work hard to get me because I am worth it. I want him to know I’m worth it.

    I know that I am an alpha female and have accepted that. I still practice feeling messages and feminine energy in order to gauge the effectiveness and how this makes me feel.

    The best plan of action for me is to take each day as it comes and to focus on that day alone. The energy is definitely much better when I do this.

    ~ Violet ~

  262.  #262Misty on May 23, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Ive been through alot my fiance cheated on me shortly after i told him i was pregnant, he called me and told me about it but then continued to do it. thats when he lied, he said it was a mistake and it wouldnt happen again but i found out he was still doing it. I left him even though i was scared, and he came back cut ties with the woman andwe tried to work on things about a year later he cheated on me withanother woman this time not physicaly but he hid talking to her telling her he loved her and was leaving me for her. when i found out i was beyond upset i was devestated i knew hed been talking to her but not that!!! he aso broke off ties with her soon after. i thought i was over this but now i think i would rather have never known. im trying to work through this but… i just dont know. i love him and dont understand y he did this and i just cant seem to get through this does anyone have any advic for me? Rori?

  263.  #263Jeannette on May 23, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    I don’t know if there is a man out there who would only have eyes for me!! I can only be myself. I think I can do that for a man I truly am in love with.

  264.  #264Goodheart on May 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Thank you T-Girl & congrats on being “on cloud 9”!

  265.  #265Violet on May 23, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    @ 266: Misty

    Misty… I’m no coaching expert by any means.

    I’d be asking myself, Do I really want to be with a man who has a proven track record of lying!? I would never be 100% sure that it wouldn’t happen again. The bond of trust is broken.

    There’s no way of telling what is truth and what is lie.

    It seems to me that people who ‘kiss and tell’ about this have already set a pattern for it to continue.

    Continuing to take him back only serves to reinforce the pattern as having little or no consequences.

    The pattern can be stopped. He clearly recognizes his guilt, otherwise he would hide it. He wants to be held accountable which is the reason for disclosure.

    Here’s where the rubber meets the road. A decision needs to be made on where to go from here.

    My opinion (for what it’s worth) is that he needs one-on-one counseling ‘if’ he’s serious about changing. Couples counseling would be a good idea as well.

    ~ Violet ~

  266.  #266T-Girl on May 23, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Misty – wow girl. I’m sorry if this is harsh but you need to ask yourself if this is the kind of guy you want? You deserve better, and believe me, there ARE better guys out there.

  267.  #267T-Girl on May 23, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    The blog is unusually quiet the past couple of days.

  268.  #268T-Girl on May 23, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    Jeannette, you can’t think that about yourself. I understand though because I have thought that same thing about myself only because of what I was conditioned with during my marriage. But there ARE guys out there that have eyes only for you. You may not know them or him yet, but they are there.

  269.  #269Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    There is a new thread up.

  270.  #270Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 10:14 pm


    RE: #266 – He sounds very toxic. Cheating is grounds for divorce in a marriage. I know it is painful, but if it were me, I would walk away.

  271.  #271Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 10:19 pm


    Re: #249 – I guess each relationship has its unique dynamics. Kenny is completely devoted to me in spirit, and he has proven in the 5 years since our divorce that he means it when he says there never will be any other woman for him.

    Yet when we sit in the visiting room in the prison, he can comment freely on a woman’s cleavage or what-have-you, gazing at her openly, and I feel no threat whatsoever. I think it’s really about trust and intention. He has no desire to look at porn, and he just is interested in me, because he loves me through and through, even tho he has seen me at my worst.

    Even if he were free, I would have no fear or jealousy whatsoever about him talking to or looking at other women. I just feel that secure with him. It’s a really good feeling.

  272.  #272Misty on May 23, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    i thought about walking away it was just so hard and in the last year 1/2 he has made so much effort to gain my trust even though he works in a dif, city he leaves the phone home, he stays home almost all of the time now or takes me with unless i dont want to go, i have access to his facebook, his e mail his, well everything and he does so many little things too, ive already made it clear that if he does anything remotely like that again i will move in with my parents and he wont have another chance. but even though hes changed so much and has seen a counsiler i still feel anxiouse ive tried seeing a therapist but it hasnt helped all ik is that im anxiouse and stressed. ive tried talking about it with him but he doesnt want to live in the past and says it hurts him that i cant trust him. and i understand that and it hurts me that i cant trust him to idk how to fix this when he has given me every reasone to trust him now.

  273.  #273Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 2:42 am





    That is one of my favorite acrostics. It will take time for him to earn back your trust.

  274.  #274Misty on May 24, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    🙂 thnx i just feel so bad sometimes for not trusting him more

  275.  #275Tia Saunders on May 26, 2011 at 11:38 am

    I agree w/ you Rori, but what about self- respect and once a cheating infidel always a cheat. Not that I don’t have faith in the person who claimed they loved me and commited, just that it’s hard to continue once you’ve blemished your record.

  276.  #276Jackie on May 27, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Rorieta (19)
    yey for you and best of luck too! Misty I feel soo sad for you, from an outside piont of view, leave him, he will only hurt you again if you let him

  277.  #277Venus on May 28, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Brenda re 275 I notice you put alot of focus on Kenny and that you feel secure with him.In fact it should be that you are secure with yourself. Just a thought.

  278.  #278Sydny Greene on June 7, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Hello Rori,

    You mentioned the word “deceit”, and I have tried so very hard in our marriage to be there when he arrived home, had the dinner ready, the house picked up, the laundry done, and still found evidence women were in my home, sleeping in my bed, cooking in my kitchen, etc., when I would be called out of town. I also had a very hard job as a professional woman in the medical field, but I always managed to be at home for him. The kicker…..and this is so far removed from “humiliation”, there is no descriptive word for it……he is a sexual predator! I want you to know that by some wierd coincidence, his cell phone picked up the whole lurid scene of sexual assault HE was doing to this woman, and it was on MY voicemail! This is just unbelievable, and I am trying to keep myself together as much as I can, and I now have a divorce lawyer. The sooner the better, and I don’t want to speak to him, see him, sleep in the same bed, and I literally hate him for what he has done to me, and to many women he has had contact with. Did you say you had some advice for me?

  279.  #279LonePlum on June 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm



    You might want to paste your post on the newest thread which is the one everybody is checking. You might get support there.