Miranda Kerr Talks About Circular Dating

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targetingI was just sent this article from Harper’s – an interview with the lovely model, singer, organic cosmetic line mogul, and self-help author Miranda Kerr:


In it – Miranda sounds like me! She (or the interviewer from Harper’s) uses the term “circular dating” this way:

“Kerr cites the concept of circular dating: seeing a few men at a time and keeping all options open until you’re sure a man is worth it. The idea is about saving ladies from investing in unsuitable men. ”

Here’s more:

“Men don’t want to be disrespected, and women feel the best when they feel cherished,” she says. “So if a woman is feeling cherished, she will respect a man, and if a man’s feeling respected, he will cherish a woman. It doesn’t need to be complicated.” She continues: “You know, for a long time I had it the wrong way. I was constantly doing, doing. Giving, giving for my partner. But what works is not feeling like you have to be everything to everyone.”

And more:

“Miranda Kerr thinks it’s fine for a woman to date multiple men as long as they don’t sleep with any of them.

“The 31-year-old star – who split from Orlando Bloom in 2013 after three years of marriage – advises against having sex on a first date because she thinks it’s better to go out with a number of potential suitors to keep your options open.

“To the issues: How to prepare for a date? “What really works is to spend 15 minutes and focus on feelings and moments that have made you feel really good. Remember those moments so you can build up a positive force field around you.”

“Next, should a girl ever call a guy? “I don’t believe in that. I believe in the man chasing the girl, but that’s just me personally.” Texting? “I think a woman should respond but not reach out.”

“Which brings us to the timeless question of sex on the first date. Out comes the notepad. “My philosophy is that until you get to know them it’s better not to, because energetically as a woman you get attached. So you’re better off to go on a few dates and see if you want to get attached or not.”

From Rori: I think this is just a great article, and that Miranda Kerr is awesome. I’ve commented there to thank Harper’s for mentioning the term, and inviting them to the blog to check out more about “Circular Dating,” how it’s not really about “dating” at all (it’s more Free Therapy), and how you amazing Sirens are all using it…

If you have anything to say there as well – please feel free to comment! I feel very proud that Circular Dating was “coined” here on the blog (a google search confirms it!), intensely laid out in “Targeting Mr. Right,”  and that more women are now doing it.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1IamHis on January 22, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    I feel scared, because New Guy & I talked on the phone for over an hour.

    I don’t even like talking on the phone!

    He is so easy to talk to & he told me that I’m easy to talk to too.

    I don’t understand why he poofed & then came back. It feels a little scary.

    I am really starting to like him, & that feels really scary.

  2.  #2Millie on January 23, 2015 at 1:28 am

    I love what she says here about the relationship between feeling cherished and respected and how they nourish each other!! What a great visual too! Reminds me of the waterfall tool.

  3.  #3Violet on January 23, 2015 at 2:09 am

    Hello everyone… I like the idea of Circular Dating. However; it seems like whenever I meet a man off a dating site; it doesn’t go past that first meeting.

    I’m SO discouraged, but I don’t want to continue thinking, talking, acting like this is the way things are going to be. I don’t want that negative energy taking root in my heart, and soul, and mind.

    I sure could use some encouragement. I feel like my siren groove got left by the way-side and I want/need to get it back. 🙁

  4.  #4IamHis on January 23, 2015 at 2:42 am

    (((((Violet)))) – I don’t know what to say exactly, but I feel as though I might know how you feel.

    The fact that you don’t want to get ducked into any kind of negative energy is so amazing! !! I feel in awe of it. Do you know how huge that is, in a way?

    Because of that, you will attract men who are trying to be positive.

    I had some pretty terrible one date wonder online dating experiences this summer, but I remained intentional and tried to learn from them. Don’t underestimate the value of learning experiences! They will make your future joy & gratitude that much greater. 🙂

  5.  #5Indigo on January 23, 2015 at 2:50 am


    If you are open to it, the Sirens here are very good at providing excellent feedback.

    Would you like to share with us how an example of a first date for you?

  6.  #6Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 5:33 am

    Indigo… what a great question…
    Yes… the support and thoughtful feedback is priceless here on Siren Island!

    IamHis#4… I agree with what you said to Violet

  7.  #7Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Violet I think this is pretty par for the course with online dating. In the early Fall I was online CDing a TON and it would come in waves…lots of men who dropped off the face of the Earth, then lots of one-daters, then lots of quality men. 🙂

    Online dating can attract a lot of people who are looking for hookups or very short-term things rather than relationships. There are definitely quality men to be found but you have to be patient and treat each date like practice. Don’t go into it with the mindset of trying to find the ‘one.’ Try to use each date as opportunity to really get in touch with how YOU feel, what’s going on in your body and to practice feeling messages. Your confidence will shoot through the roof and usually that’s when the great guys start flocking towards you. 🙂

  8.  #8prplpsn28 on January 23, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Not much cding going on here. The dating site is just kind of blah to me. I’ve been communicating with a few but again it’s just blah. Maybe I’m being too picky.

    No contact of any kind with H or C. I get disappointed but at the same time it’s probably for the best. Neither one of them seems to be able to do a relationship. Ugh. I feel as tho I will never find my mr right. Makes me feel sad.

  9.  #9Andrea on January 23, 2015 at 6:28 am

    I rejoined Plenty of Fish again.

    This time I have set my boundaries so that I only respond to my inbox when I’m on my break at work. That way I don’t feel overwhelmed.

    I had one guy right away who responded to my profile and asked me out right away. I felt pressured. He also wanted me to drive to his city.

    I said, I feel pressured by such a sudden response and feel very uncomfortable driving so far away.

    He tried to do more convincing and told me he would come and meet me then. I said I feel the best just backing off of this conversation for the time being and checking in with myself about how I feel a couple of days from now.

    When I opened my inbox this morning I had about seven messages from him. Those kinds of messages that are like… Hello? ARe you there? Are you going to respond to me? Wow. Okay, I’ll just say goodbye then….

    So I messaged him: “Thank you so much. I feel so much relief that you made such a good decision for both of us and realized that we are not a match. Yes, goodbye and I wish you the best.” : ) I feel sireny that the ick ones just go away on their own. hahaha

    Then I had a wonderful message from a new man who took the time to read my profile and responded with a bit about him and a few lines about my profile and how he would like to take me to a place I mentioned I’d never gone before in my profile.

    It was such a breath of fresh air. I feel fresh and smiley knowing there are men out there who know how to communicate, and I feel good about myself that I attracted him. (It’s so funny how icky I feel about myself when my inbox is full of undesirables. As though that’s my doing as well. hmmmmmmm… something to think about here.)

    What tips do you ladies have for the types of pictures to put on the profile? And what do you have for your profile one line openers? And what do you write on your intro.

    I want to sound sireny but not reveal too much.

    So far my pictures: I have one that’s a recent selfie. It shows my hair, my eyes, my smile, but you know.. just a head shot.
    One that’s me with a dress on like I would wear to a casual date. It’s a head to toe shot.
    And one with me at frisby golfing game. Another head to toe.
    I’m smiling in all of the photos, but the full body pics were taken last summer so they don’t depict my recent weight loss.

    My words are all over the place. I feel ick about writing the profile.

  10.  #10Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 6:42 am

    Cding and leaning back from Spirit
    has been so important to me getting closer
    to ME and Mr. Right…
    Practicing being MY Siren self
    and NOT taking crumbs (honoring what doesn’t feel good to me)

    As far as online dating
    I continue to have men on POF give me their numbers and I DONT call THEM…
    Sabotaging me potentially meeting some really nice guys!!!
    I don’t like to give them my number for the first call…
    BUT since I am sooo bad at NOT calling them
    I think i’m going to change this and give them my number…

    After a month of not seeing Spirit…
    He tried MANY,many times to see me…
    but because of dates I already had
    and my boundary of NOT having him over to My
    house until I have been to his… nothing worked

    He is a last minute guy…
    after several failed attempts to see me last min.
    and I was able to share
    I too am spontanious AND
    sometimes that works and sometimes it doesnt
    Soooo the next time he asked me out
    was a day before the date!!!
    Can’t remember why I didn’t go…

    2 weeks ago he wanted to watch a game
    with me at MY house…
    Me: “of course I would LUV to sit with you and snuggle and watch the game!! We always have sooo much fun!!! and
    first I want to be invited to your house…”
    He just said “OK”
    On the day of the game he texted me off and on
    and called me after OSU won…
    I was Not Sireny at all… said how this isn’t working!
    Most of our difference could probably be worked out But I want a relationship where I agree with the basic
    Religious and political beliefs of my man.”
    he said some things I dont’ remember…
    I’m sure I argued more.. and hung up on him!
    and he texted he wanted to talk about it over
    dinner and I said OK.

    2 weeks went by…
    I soooo much wanted to call or text Spirit…
    came up with alll kinds of times to reach out
    (BUT because of Siren Island and Alll the support here)
    I continued with my grieving, letting go of him
    process… realizing why I need to stay away.
    Sinking into my loneliness… comforting ME, LOVING ME
    dating others…
    and he did call…
    his daughter (who struggles with deep depression and other issues) had lost her job and he would love to see me… could I meet him at our restaurant?
    I hesitated… met my girlfriend for a drink after a meeting we had..
    And decided I did want to see him…
    He talked about all the wonderful times
    we had during the holidays…
    His favorite times together with me…
    It was lovely but I said how much it would mean to me if I was invited to his house…
    He said ” I’ll get a room at a hotel…let’s get an apartment together…”
    Me:”mmmmm…. ohhhh… that sounds sooo yummy and wonderful!!”

    we hugged, kissed and more in my car and he asked me out for Friday (2 days ahead of the date)!!!

    This all sounds so good to hear from him…

    Me NOT controlling!!! ME practicing staying out of his life and INTO MINE!
    Such a BIG change!!!

  11.  #11Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Andrea — I kept my online profile very simple and short. Keep in mind a lot of the articles that talk about how to ‘get the most clicks and messages’ basically encourage women to publish overly revealing photos and overfunction in their profiles. Cue eyeroll.

    Photo tips:
    – The most important thing is to look NATURAL. At ease. Comfortable with yourself. Posed photos, selfies, or photos taken by a pro tend to turn people off
    – No more than 5 photos
    – Photos should be no more than 6 months old
    – Include at least one full-body photo
    – Make sure your face looks different in each photo. Meaning, don’t be making the same exact facial expression in each photo, this looks very strange and unnatural.
    – If you can try to represent your interests in your photos. For example if you like cooking show you doing that. If you’re active show yourself playing a sport or running or whatever. And so on. (But if you don’t have photos doing this it’s not a huge deal.)
    – Women should always be looking towards the camera in their photos, unless it’s a group or activity shot. Men look more appealing when they’re looking off to the right or left, but women are far more appealing when they’re making friendly eyes into the camera
    – Don’t show yourself drinking alcohol in any of your photos
    – No professional/work photos
    – Nothing revealing. No low-cut camis or tops, no super-short skirts, bathing suit photos are iffy too

    Profile tips:
    – Keep it short and sweet. The more you write the more men may find to unfairly disqualify you. Don’t feel obligated to fill out every profile section. Some mystery is a good thing!
    – Write solely about YOURSELF. Don’t write about what you’re looking for or what feels good to you in a relationship — it makes men feel pigeonholed and pressured. This is the biggest mistake I’d see women make.
    – Feeling messages are GREAT in your profile. examples: I feel happy to be here; I feel fulfilled nearly every day and I’m very grateful for it (about work); I feel so content curled up with a good book!
    – Talk about the things that make you a Siren in your profile. I’m a good listener…I’m soft on the outside and strong on the inside…life feels good when I’m in the moment, not stuck in my head all the time…and so on.
    – For your opening line, humor or something to disarm men work best. You can talk about how awkward it feels going online to meet someone, or how fun yet impossible it feels to try to distill all your amazing traits down into a few words, etc
    – Softly inspiring men’s competitive traits works GREAT. Something like “Not just any man will be a good match for me”
    – DON’T say thank you in your profile…no thank you for visiting, or thanks for looking. It comes off as needy.
    – DON’T write anything how you may not respond to every message you get because it’s overwhelming, blah blah blah. Just ignore the men who aren’t interesting to you.
    – Avoid standard answers if you can. For example in OKC’s ‘6 things I can’t live without’ instead of listing 6 things out I write 6 sentences about things I liked…”that moment when the sun is about to fall below the horizon at sunset”…”late night taxi rides along the river that frame the city skyline perfectly”…”beating yesterday’s time on my run” and so on. Give something for guys to remember about you.

    And if you’re feeling totally unmotivated and unsure the best way to go is to keep it short and simple, knowing you can always refine or add more when you’re feeling super-Sireny.

  12.  #12Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Azure Blu — Ahhhhh, what a wonderful turn of events. YAY YOU for holding strong to your boundaries in a Sireny way. It gets easier each time!!

  13.  #13Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Wow!!! This is such Great info!!! How great it feels to read these helpful hints…
    I really like the one about 6 things you like… “the moment the sun is about to fall below the horizon at sunset” Beautiful!!!

  14.  #14Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 7:28 am

    Labbit #12
    Thank you!! that means alot coming from your Siren self!!! :-))

  15.  #15Victoria on January 23, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Azure Blue,
    I am so happy for you, I want to give you applause!
    You are doing so great!
    I wonder what’s the big obstacle to him inviting you over to his house – does he live with the daughter?
    If he does, it kind of explains it.
    I am also very happy how my things are turning out with F. He is figuring out little by little how I like to see things done. He has a very very tiny progress in his planning skills, I almost would not dare to mention it. The big change is in how I feel about him and about what he does. I really feel I am the prize and he is super priviliged to be seing me, and I trust he will act accordingly. And he does, he does much better when I feel secure that he will make things right. I am extremely grateful to the shared wisdom on the blog.

  16.  #16Dominique on January 23, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Labbit – 11 – This is excellent. Thank you so much for writing this.


  17.  #17Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Victoria #15
    Thank you lovely siren for you generous words of encouragement!!! means so much!

    Yes, he does live with his daughter.. but she’s gone some nights and weekends… he still won’t invite me then..?? it would be ok to go to a hotel (neutral territory).

    I like what you say here:
    “I really feel I am the prize
    and he is super priviliged to be seing me,
    and I trust he will act accordingly.
    And he does,
    he does much better
    when I feel secure
    that he will make things right.”

    I think that might be dialogue I am leaving out when I share what I want with Spirit…
    Me:”…and I feel secure and calm knowing you will make things right. Spirit”

    Ahhh… feels so calming just typing it here!

  18.  #18Victoria on January 23, 2015 at 8:31 am

    I remember when I was a teen, sneaking in my boyfriend in our flat when my parents were not around… It is so funny to be in a reversed situation, where you need to be hiding from your children and not vice versa! Actually, now that I think about it, it might not be funny but just embarassing… I kind of feel compassion for him from this angle.
    But a hotel should be fine, absolutely. Also, I am 100% sure he can do it, and will do it, out of his free will, if he wants to have some [very hugh] quality time with you :-). You are a star!

  19.  #19Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Yes! It is sooo weird having to sneak around from our children… My son is at home too…

    A few months ago I shared with my son…
    “you are an adult, I will want to bring my boyfriend over and he will spend the night from time to time…
    I know this is a small place and I will be respectful. We won’t be having loud, crazy sex. But he will be spending the night.”
    and he said: “thank you for letting me know. Sounds good to me.”

  20.  #20Lovergirl on January 23, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Azure- it sounds like he is coming around. 🙂

    Labbit- that is a great online dating profile tutorial. I admit I don’t put a lot of effort into online dating profiles because it seems like a good portion of the men only look at the pictures anyway. On OkCupid I just have pictures up and no text at all, but I get a lot of comments on my “well written” profile. :p

    Andrea- I don’t even respond to men who live far away, unless they are offering to drive to me. I don’t respond to men who repeatedly send messages that I haven’t responded to- I see them as future stalkers. Heck, I don’t respond to half the guys who contact me. I don’t feel I owe any of them a response. If I did online dating would just be overwhelming.

  21.  #21Lovergirl on January 23, 2015 at 9:41 am

    I feel like my guy is pulling away. It’s making me feel anxious. I was happy when I left his house on Tuesday but then he seemed to pull back. No more hour long evening phone calls, and he hasn’t been texting other than work related stuff.

    I feel somewhat comforted that he at least texts regarding that. He did call me last night, finally, at like 11 pm, but it was only for a few minutes and work related. He didn’t HAVE to call though, which makes me hope maybe he just wanted to hear my voice. On Wednesday, the only contact I had from him was an email he forwarded.

    I don’t know if he’s just doing that thing where guys pull away after being more intimate or what. I’m nervous and a bit scared. Those abandonment fears are acting up again. Ugh.

    I’m seeing the other guy tonight the one who bought me expensive stuff for Christmas and who always plans ahead. The boring guy that never wants to go out and do anything fun, but likes to cook me dinner or take me to the same old restaurant. I tried to hint at him taking me to a movie, but he doesn’t seem to want to. :p

    I’m feeling a little like getting away from him. I guess I’m just annoyed that he plans ahead and I would really rather be dating a new guy or doing something more exciting than seeing him. I feel kind of pushed into seeing him because he always wants to secure another date after the last time. Maybe I’m the one with commitment issues…..

  22.  #22Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Lovergirl, would it help you to feel better if you thought of it like this? When men are away from us THAT is the time that they really feel their feelings for us, where their emotions and attraction builds. It’s often all going on under the surface and if you asked him about it he probably would not know what you’re talking about.

    But for men, when they take their space and experience their freedom…these are the moments that they are actually feeling for us the most. So instead of feeling fear you can smile to yourself…knowing that his attachment and attraction is growing and it’s simply a matter of time before he snaps back to you.

    And remember, men move at least twice slowly as we want them to. Especially when we’re thinking about them a lot. 😉

  23.  #23Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Victoria 15 and Azure Blu 17 — love this! I will have to keep this close to my heart as well…feel secure in myself and that he will make things right. This feels yummy!

  24.  #24Indigo on January 23, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Labbit 22,

    Thank you for this. D is taking space and I know it will just be a matter of a few days or maybe a week and he will contact me again. Sure, I wish it could be sooner, but it has to be in his time so thank you for this reminder!

  25.  #25Lovergirl on January 23, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Labbit- Thank you! That does help! I guess men are like the “watched pot that never boils”, lol. The more you are paying attention, the slower they go. 😉

    It is encouraging to imagine that his attraction may be growing right now and that soon he will snap back. 🙂

  26.  #26Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Indigo — Glad to help! I really for both you and Lovergirl — Azure you too! TenderCD doesn’t go into his cave much at all these days but I very clearly remember the period just a couple of months ago when it seemed like he was CONSTANTLY going in his cave for days and coming out for maybe one day. It nearly drove me batty. Yet every time I interrupted that process for him…tried to lure him out or got needy…it only drove him further into the cave. He’ll come out and he’ll feel all the better for having a continuous, non-disturbed time.

  27.  #27Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Ugh that sentence should have read “I really FEEL for both you and Lovergirl…” I am just not quite all here right now. :p

    Update from me: Dominique is coaching me this week and it’s been SO GREAT. I am feeling triggered by pretty much everything right now…I feel like something great is coming for me but I’m bouncing between highs and lows right now like some scary roller coaster ride I want to get off.

    BUT. TenderCD and I had the BEST DATE EVER on Wednesday. Before Weds I’d been feeling overwhelmed by all the loving energy coming my way from Tender — yes I know how silly that sounds — and trying to resist it, because I thought it would be leaning forward to feel it. I guess I was trying to push it away. Dominique advised that it was totally OK to melt, to really immerse myself in that loving energy. And I am so grateful she told me that. I spent all Weds afternoon melting, receiving Tender’s loving energy. Not trying to do anything…just relaxing my body and melting like he was right there holding me. Really yummy and mmmmmm.

    Then when I saw him that evening he was in the best mood ever! I don’t think I’ve ever seen him so cheerful, bouncy-happy, like a little kid really! He whisked in the door at the beginning of our date and wrapped me up in his arms, smothering me in kisses. And the entire night we had amazing, flowy, easy conversation. I don’t recall him ever being so open or vulnerable with me…he shared some of his own fears and dreams that touched me deeply. I felt warm and safe and SO CONNECTED TO HIM at a heart-to-heart level. He spent the night and I don’t think I have to tell you what happened there.

    During the afternoon beforehand I’d been daydreaming that Tender would give me a hug, because he gives the best hugs. In the morning before we left my apartment he gave me not one but TWO amazing bear hugs. And then he asked “When can I see you next?” I don’t know that he’s EVER asked me that, LOL. Usually he sets up our next dates later on after we part. Granted I was in my head a bit in the morning so I almost missed enjoying the hugs and the insta-next-date, but I’ve been feeling some residual joy from it over these last few days. I am so sure this all happened because I melted beforehand and received the energy he was sending me.

    Now, if I could just learn to love all these painful old memories and feelings that are coming up in the spaces between, I’d be feeling really amazing. Which is where Dominique is helping so much!

  28.  #28Lovergirl on January 23, 2015 at 10:36 am

    Labbit, that sounds beautiful 🙂 I am happy for you and excited about the good things that are happening in your relationship.

  29.  #29Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 10:37 am

    Lovegirl… thank you for the acknowledgement!

    So funny… you don’t even have a profile and they say:
    “Great profile”!!! ;-0

    I just had a discussion with a POF guy…
    He called me
    Like I mentioned… I gave him my number since
    for some reason… I wasn’t calling him

    He was REALLY nice…
    I actually brought up politics… (since I am soo burned out on Spirits rock hard beliefs.)
    we do have different politics
    BUT he could discuss the difference and agree with some of the things I SAID…
    wow… so much different from Spirit!!!

    He was enthusiastic about talking and meeting…
    I can’t see him until Tues.
    Then he wanted to drive halfway… we live 40 min. apart…
    Me: “I am old fashion and appreciate when the man drives to me.”
    Strained silence
    and I was able to pause and NOT say anything… YAY!!!
    Him; “Ok, i guess i can compromise and come to Ann Arbor.”
    Me: “Ohhhh… i so appreciate that!”
    I also said I feel curious…if he found distance an issue when dating…
    He said Noooo… not really…
    and we went from there…
    Yay for Rori’s tools and Me knowing I am the PRIZE!

  30.  #30Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Labbit #27
    Aaahhhh… I feel so happy for you and Tender…
    How you are opening your heart and being so melty..
    Such good things for me to read and learn from…
    I am soo excited to see your relationship blossom and grow!!
    Ohhh… lovely lady…
    Thank you for your authentic Siren voice here on Siren Island

  31.  #31Gemini Goddess on January 23, 2015 at 11:27 am

    Azure Blue-
    Yay, Yay, yay you!!!!!

    Thanks so much for sharing. I look forward to your posts. I’ve been having a tough time receiving lately. Strange. It’s like it makes me…suspicious? Worried? Strained? I’m taking it as a sign that I’m expanding my capacity to receive and that that isn’t always comfortable to do.

  32.  #32Lindsey on January 23, 2015 at 11:46 am

    If a woman is cherished, she will respect the man.

    Don’t think this is true entirely. You have to see the good in a man to respect him. So even if he treats you great, if he’s not doing what he needs to do as a man, apart from what you do for him, then there is nothing to respect. You have to like who he is outside of you, what he does, how he treats others, etc.

  33.  #33Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Thank you for your cheerleading!! :-))

  34.  #34Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Thanks ladies!

    GG I struggle with receiving too. I feel the urge to take over that masculine giving role. For me it’s a direct result of my upbringing…the way my parents would show affection and how we kids got it.

    I asked Dominique about that too and she helped me to see all the other ways I ALREADY give just by being warm, open, inviting in my feminine energy. By recognizing that I’m already giving to the relationship by having an open heart, creating a safe place for him to drop into his heart, by sharing our interests and so on, it makes the urge to do and give much less strong.

  35.  #35Labbit on January 23, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Oh and by the way once it was explained to me like this, overfunctioning became so much clearer to me too! Now that I understand that I’m already giving so much to a man just by being, not doing, opening up my heart, I can totally see why overfunctioning is such a turnoff! I’m taking over my role AND his and not leaving him with anything to do! He must wonder why I’d even need or want him at that point.

    All of a sudden being in my feminine energy became much more alluring to me, and I felt the relief of knowing that I am contributing and giving in my own feminine-energy way. 🙂

  36.  #36Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    Labitt #33&34
    Mmmmm… such juicy stuff to absorb
    this helps me see how I AM GIVING… no need to do much more…
    :-.> lovely!!!

  37.  #37Cutie on January 23, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Azure, I loved reading about your conversation with the new CD — way to go tolerating that strained silence and sticking to your boundary about not driving to see a man! I feel pumped to see the tools in action!

    Labbit, thank you so much for sharing what you’re learning. I needed to read about how powerful it is when we simply receive from men.

  38.  #38Azure Blu on January 23, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Cutie!!! Thank you…
    Yes… it was GREAT practice to watch me get nervous and anxious as I let the silence sit there…
    No rescuing… I was SOOO tempted
    but realized I would be fine if it didn’t work for him…

    I’m excited to let silence sit again!!!
    It was SOOO scary! :-))

  39.  #39Lovergirl on January 23, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    I feel encouraged when I read all these posts about how leaning back and not rescuing are WORKING for women in real life! I also have noticed more how other women are behaving towards my guy. I see other women leaning forward towards him, inviting him out (especially his ex girlfriend, though I totally believe him that they are platonic).

    I am just starting to learn these tools and am eager to see how they “work” in real life. I’m curious, is it a bad idea to give him anything I’ve cooked, even if he’s been taking me out to eat a lot since I’ve made him anything?

    I did this the other day, left him some breakfast casserole in his refrigerator when I was at his place doing work (he wasn’t there). He had commented recently that he hasn’t been getting any “surprises” like that lately and I felt kind of bad. I know he likes my cooking, lol. Also, it was just leftovers from what I made the kids, but I can see how it is still “leaning forward”.

    If its not okay, then at what point does it become okay? If you are married shouldn’t you cook for your husband? I mean maybe not EVERY day, but….

  40.  #40Femininewoman on January 23, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Lovergirl the thing is when we make hints like that then surprises are no longer surprises. They start to feel like obligations and most people end up feeling obligated and pressure. I’d say check in with yourself to see how you feel, then go from there

  41.  #41Mandy on January 23, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Oh boy. Something pulled me into focus on J very quickly. I feel awful right now. Not because of him, but because of what happened to him.

    I talked with an old friend of mine last night, who, I remembered, has lots of anxiety and issues with being triggered. Especially sexually, because she’s had so many abusive situations happen. I asked her if she thought maybe some past abuse might be affecting J sexually. This was the first time I talked to someone who I felt really understood what I was saying. She listened and told me that she thought it is definitely that J has problems with becoming aroused with me, because she feels the same way with her girlfriend. She feels “safe” when she has no emotional connection to someone, when they are a stranger. She has no idea why.

    She told me that she feels comfy being turned on by a stranger, but it’s like, if she has that deep love for a person, and trust, it is like the abuse that happened warped her psyche, so that if she loves and trusts someone, it just feels kind of wrong. I realize me trying to get something from him probably makes him feel very, very uncomfortable. The poor man…People say “well if he’s whatever age he should’ve gotten over it by now” and that really triggers my anger.

    I feel so anxious when I think of what may have happened to J. I realize he may feel weird sleeping in bed because what happened may have happened in his own bed. I realize his drinking has numbed him for a very long time. I realize he may feel very fearful of becoming aroused because in his mind with someone he loves and trusts it may just seem flat out wrong. That may be why he feels comfy being turned on by strangers rather than a beloved, trusted person.

    I just feel a lot of things all at once and I can’t get sucked too deeply into his stuff, because it will consume me and it won’t be a pretty sight, so I have to let myself feel some, then go do something, like eat and go exercise and get a nice run in. Sounds weird but I know I have to do it.

    I ignored it for a long time because something similar happened to me, I guess I was just always strong and had a good therapist, so I’m able to be very sexual and happy being that way. My therapist taught me how to not shut down. I also find new possibilities in new people, feeling they are a shiny golden new personality for me to relate to, and I trust them until they give me a reason not to. But I realize this subject with J brings up feelings of anxiety for me because that weird awful feeling comes up, and I am familiar with it…the “raped” feeling. I imagine I have stuffed that feeling down quite a bit, so much that I forgot I ever had it. Very, very very weird.

    He keeps saying to me he feels awful laying in bed and just wants to go back to sleep and not feel awful. He also keeps saying he wants to see a psychiatrist.

    This is a huge lesson in consent for me. I didn’t realize how deeply and heavily an experience can affect a person. And I guess I have ignored some weird feelings myself for a long time, which is kind of what I may feel angry at him about, you know, stuffing it down and not dealing with it and thus depriving me of something I need. It is SO not about me, it is actually quite a bit about us. We are kind of going through the same thing and I didn’t want to admit ti to myself so I may have actually been thwarting our growth and healing and not known it.

    How can I encourage healing and growth? I feel I am a good listener, who is able to let go, relax, and lend an ear…and he has been opening up quite a bit lately…he keeps saying he wants to see a psychiatrist.

    I’ll definitely be coming back just to at least hear myself say these things.

  42.  #42Cutie on January 23, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Lovergirl, I think your question kind of pertains to Rori’s waterwheel tool, where she talks about feeling so filled up by a man’s giving, that it’s only natural that we flow some of that back onto him.

    The way I interpret it is that I feel comfortable and good about giving back to my man when he is consistently giving to me all the time.

    As an example of the waterwheel, I believe in one of the programs Rori says to cook for him or have takeout at the house once for every five to seven times he’s taken you out for dinner / cooked for you.

    For me, now that I am further into a real relationship (exclusivity and marriage on the table), I like to cook for us several times a week, and he tends to take us out to eat / cook for us several times a week. So it’s become a bit more even in that respect.

    However, he still always drives, always comes to me, always opens my car door and other door, brings me flowers on a regular basis, rearranges work when I need to be dropped off at the airport, surprises me with sweet notes, gives me massages, compliments me all the time, etc. I guess the food thing is the one main area where things have become more even between us. It’s still way waterwheel style for me on all this other stuff.

    During the first four to five months of our relationship, I barely ever cooked anything for us and he did pretty much all the cooking AND the paying when he took us out on dates. Though I did waterwheel back now and again with cheap, simple stuff like sandwiches and oven pizzas or drinks for the movies lol.

  43.  #43April Rose on January 23, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I am wondering why you still have SpiritCD in your life at all.
    That may sound harsh, I realise.

    I had someone wonderful in my life a couple of years ago. Who also happened to be a racist (and a member of a racist political organisation).
    In the end, I could not reconcile it. His fear/hatred of certain groups of fellow humans meant we were never going to be a match.

    Am I right that Spirit has a fear/hatred of gay people?

  44.  #44Beloved on January 23, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    I started moving in to my new place today and I feel so happy and content. The vibe there feels so great.
    T, my landlord/housemate had the room all set up, washed the sheets for the bed that was there, had the ceiling fan installed, put in a nightstand, a desk, a couple of lamps…wow.
    Plus, when I got there, he said, if I wanted to leave the desk where it was, I wouldn’t be able to open the closet door all of the way, would I like him to remove the closet door?
    I could immediately feel how wonderful and sexy I would feel having a beaded curtain or drapery fabric over the entrance of my room and said…yes!
    His friend that was there, helped carry my stuff up to my room, and while I was unpacking, TG took the door off.
    Seriously, ok, I cannot tell you…omg…this man has done so much for me, so quickly, and so happy to do it and want to be sure I’m happy and feeling comfortable. He has gone above and beyond, and, it really feels kind of super awesome to have him not only offer to do stuff, but then follow through on it right then and there.

  45.  #45kate on January 23, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    Rori was very kind and generous about this article as Miranda should have sited Rori Raye as the source for “Circular Dating” but I don’t think it was necessarily a deliberate snub (sounds like Rori doesn’t, either). It is clear she is a serious student of Rori Raye and possibly a regular here on the board. I find it fascinating and I love that Rori is getting some big-time, main-stream exposure.

  46.  #46kate on January 23, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    Not that Rori isn’t already “Big Time” 🙂

  47.  #47Indigo on January 23, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    Labbit 34,

    Yes, this was a great lesson for me in my recent birthday present debacle with D.

    Dominique explained it so beautifully to me as well, and now that I’ve experienced it, I can see it and what she was talking about. Thanks for putting it like this. Men are not so concerned with us giving them gifts. We are already giving so much just by being soft and warm and open in our feminine energy, and creating a safe space for them is by far the best thing we can do. And I love the discussion from Cutie and Lovergirl about giving back and cooking. It gave me something to think about too. I realized I had been overfunctioning in this whole area and now I am getting back to balance.

    When his energy has been coming towards me and he has been giving to me consistently I will just receive graciously and femininely and check in with how I feel about giving back.

    I hear what you are saying, Lovergirl. I love cooking and find it very stress-relieving, but I check in with how I’m feeling now and do it far less often. If I’m honest, he doesn’t expect it at all. So I’m rather going to wait for the waterwheel to turn my way for a while first.

  48.  #48Indigo on January 23, 2015 at 10:19 pm


    I wanted to comment on your post 41. I really feel for what you are feeling, and can really relate to your feelings of what it’s like having a boyfriend who’s going through a rough time. But I just wanted to remind you, and I hope this doesn’t trigger you, that this is his business and his stuff to sort out. You cannot facilitate his healing and growth or make this better for him – and trust me when I say I know the urge to want to fix what a man is going through inside, but he needs to work through this on his own.

    What you said here: “How can I encourage healing and growth? I feel I am a good listener, who is able to let go, relax, and lend an ear…and he has been opening up quite a bit lately…he keeps saying he wants to see a psychiatrist.”

    I am very familiar with EFP (Equine Facilitated Psychotherapy) and a qualified practitioner can bring this pent up feelings to the surface in a way he can work through and release in a fraction of the time of a normal psychotherapist. Just something for you to use or not use. Therapy with horses gets amazing results in these kinds of situations. Anyway, as I say, for you to use or not use. Best of luck

  49.  #49Mandy on January 23, 2015 at 11:30 pm


    No worries, no trigger problems there, I am having a rather nice night, J fixed me some awesome chicken cordon bleu for dinner and were all content watching shows. Good stuff…In Siren mode 🙂 Melty 🙂

    But I will definitely take notes on what you posted to me there and what I intend to do is take my own space from him and do some loving on myself and see what happens with me not focusing on all this…

    But great idea, he loves animals…very deeply! 🙂

  50.  #50Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 1:18 am

    Lovergirl 39,
    I relate to your hesitation about cooking.
    I love cooking and I am very good at it, and my man LOVES food (don’t they all?) and so I naturally thought this is a good way for me to express my love and appreciation for the fact that he always pays for everything when we go out. I love taking food to him when he is at work and I used to buy him good food (from good restaurant) and bring it to him to make sure he has good food instead of the junk that is available around his work place.
    I stopped doing this when I realized that it is part of my overfunctioning and leaning forward. I realized that I do this mostly because I love hearing him thank me and say he loves me and that no one has even cared about him like that. I realized I have been doing in not as a spill over from receiving from him, but to entice him to give me more. When I realized it and stopped doing it, and redirected my “cooking and feeding him” energy to taking good care of myself and buying something for me instead of food for him, the end result is SO MUCH BETTER.
    So for me, the rule of thumb has become, when I have a giving urge, to give to myself first. Only after I have given everything I need and more to myself, and if I am completely sure that I am giving to him as a spill over, I give to him. And that is a very pleasant feeling.

  51.  #51Indigo on January 24, 2015 at 1:34 am

    Victoria 50,

    I love this! I am willing to practice this because it is not instinctive to me.

    “So for me, the rule of thumb has become, when I have a giving urge, to give to myself first. Only after I have given everything I need and more to myself, and if I am completely sure that I am giving to him as a spill over, I give to him. And that is a very pleasant feeling.”

    Yes! Use my giving urge to give to me first!

  52.  #52Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 1:49 am

    April Rose 43 and Azure,
    I like the question that April Rose has asked, not because there is necessarily and answer but because it is an important topic.
    I think we let men stay in our life until some one else displaces them. And, there are basically two ways for that to happen 1) someone new wants to occupy all our time, or 2) we decide that the negative feelings towards this man outweight the positive feelings, so we through him out.
    Also, having matching value systems is very important for a relationship, yet it is highly unlikely that we will meet a man who is 100% like us. When it comes to religious or political beliefs, I personally have found it much easier to relate to people who are middle of the road/undefined/not religious/not politically affiliated because when the man has very strong beliefs, I feel pressured to take a stance vis-a-vis his beliefs (agree/disagree) and that is uncomfortable for me.
    I feel quite lucky with F. that he is very similar to me politically and religiously. He does say some things occasionally that stir confusion in me, because I am highly rational/materialistic, and I think he has a streak of irrationality/spirituality ( I am not sure what to call it) which I can not match. We were talking the other day, and he quoted a proverb, or saying by some phylosopher, maybe Kant (huh?) something to the effect that when we drink up the cup of knowledge what remains at the bottom is mysticism. That kind of freaks me out that he would say something like that, but I sort of attributed it to his masculine desire to impress me as a well-read person. Now that is sweet.

  53.  #53Indigo on January 24, 2015 at 4:57 am

    I was thinking today, is there a part of me which likes the drama? Is that why I’ve leaned forward in the past? If so, this is the part of myself that I want to heal.

    I don’t think it’s the whole reason, but I do think it’s possible that a part of myself feels somewhat more safe and comfortable with a bit of drama – this is only a small part of myself, because definitely the biggest part of me yearns for peace and calm and a relaxed relationship and to feel cherished on a daily basis. But I wonder if this small part of me wasn’t to some extent running the show sometimes in the past, because it didn’t quite feel safe and comfortable in receiving. Hm. Something for me to think about.

  54.  #54Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 5:10 am

    I know a part of me definetely loves drama. Drama is interesting in itself, and gives you something to tell your friends. Being constantly balanced and calm and quietly sasisfied would be so boring.
    As for why we lean forward – this is a very good question. I would say that it is a consequence of the man leaning back, because he had his testosterone level depleted and he needs to recover. So he pulls back, and unless you make a conscious effort to pull back yourself, you would naturally lean forward in the relationship bubble. Whereas, if he leans back, and you lean back, that creates tension… it is unconfortable (especially for me!) but it works very effectvely to pull him back.
    I think I told you that I have broken up a few times with F, all of them were very dramatic. And, looking in retrospect, except for the very first time when I broke up with him which was important and I do not regret doing it, it was a boundary setting, the other times were because he had leaned back, I leaned forward and overfunctioned (whereas I should have leaned back myself) and I got so tired, frustrated, and irritated from my overfunctioning, that I totally blew in his face. He totally did not anticipate any of it, and being slow and phlegmatic, his reaction was total disbelief. How was your drama?

  55.  #55Azure Blu on January 24, 2015 at 5:23 am

    April Rose and Victoria…
    Thank you darlings for your thoughtful input…
    Yes, I have been slowly trying to get my heart untangled from this lovely man – Spirit…

    I am dating others… of course now that it has been off and on with Spirit for for 6 months
    I have More time and emotions and feelings invested and it is difficult to let him go…
    We had a date last night and I practiced letting my heart open and just being with him and feeling his tender loving care and
    he melted and i melted and we were so happy together…
    I we did have the religious discussion…
    and I was very clear about how it pushes ME away when he says certain things…
    I don’t want to hurt him…
    I have stayed away from him…
    I probably am waiting until I meet someone who I want to be exclusive with and then
    I’ll stop seeing him
    We felt sooo much more emotionally close last night
    I am feeling confused this morning, Sirens.
    Thank you again for your questions and comments.

  56.  #56Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 5:25 am

    One time, we took a trip together, and I decided to surpise him with booking us in and paying for the best and most expensive hotel in the city (I did it without consulting him). He would have never wanted to stay there out of his free will. I really loved the hotel from what I knew about it, and, in my mind it was this lovely romantic idea of spending a weekend there together. So I brought him there, we had great time and everything, but because I overfunctioned, I felt I was kind of entitled to receive something more from him, in return for my generosity (he was paying for everything else by the way, but the hotel cost definetely was more than what he spent). Thinking about it, I don’t know what I expected, I just wanted him to do something very special for me, whatever. And he never did. I was waiting for a week or so, he was doing nothing special, just enjoying his life. I had tension building inside me, and within 10 days found a reason for a serious conversation about where we stand, and eventually broke up with him.

  57.  #57Indigo on January 24, 2015 at 5:26 am


    Mine was very much the same. He had leaned back, and instead of me leaning back, I leaned forward and massively overfunctioned – wanting to know why he was pulling back, getting in his business, suggesting, advising… wanting (as I can see now in retrospect) to push myself into his space, and then overfunctioning in the sense of having expectations that we would be in a loving space when I did that, and then getting upset with him when he didn’t reciprocate and fulfill his end of the “loving” bargain and didn’t do enough loving things for me. Invariably he would feel my disappointment and then pull back and we would have a fight, and he would need to withdraw to calm down from this and I’d feel empty and confused. This was the drama.

    I see now how back to front this energy exchange is. And it came in large part because I was, as you say, so irritated and resentful from my overfunctioning.

    So, I am leaning back now instead, and of course he will lean towards me again, it is just a matter of time. But it is a conscious effort. The new energy exchange is much more peaceful but it requires me going against the way I did things in the past and that is uncomfortable at first.

  58.  #58Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 5:34 am

    You are so sweet, I love how you say it “to disentangle myself from this lovely man”.
    Sound like the boss who says to the employee “we would like to encourage you to seek ways to expand your skills beyond the boundaries of our organization” :-).
    I personally do not think you need to let him go (obviously I do not know the guy) because I do believe that people change, beliefs change, and the way our beliefs change and develop is when we meet someone who is able to bring us another perspective. May be this is what will happen with you and him. It is so important and so lovely that you felt good with him last night! I have learnt to appericate how rare and precious that is… to be in the moment.

  59.  #59Indigo on January 24, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Victoria 56,

    I can totally see that that is the same kind of mistake I would have made, giving to get. Being generous, in the secret hope that he would reciprocate and do something special to show his appreciation. I probably would not have even been aware of it at the time. Now I am a lot more vigilant about that kind of thing. If I can feel myself holding onto any kind of expectations of how I want him to act, I rather won’t do a thing.

  60.  #60Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 5:40 am

    One of the lovely sirens here, probably Labbit, told me that our effort to change the energy exchange puts us on something like a see-saw – when your legs are on the ground, his are up, and he will be struggling to put his feet on the ground and yours up, so the first times are the most stressful. But I sense that you are now very well prepared to handle it 🙂

  61.  #61Azure Blu on January 24, 2015 at 5:45 am

    You made me laugh out loud
    ““we would like to encourage you to seek ways to expand your skills beyond the boundaries of our organization” !!!!
    Well, you do have a good point… the religious discussion last night… he was much more respectful and i think he understood more how those statements make me feel.
    Yes!!! It was sooo magical last night opening up my heart and receiving all of his love and care!!
    I am still feeling sooo happy this morning!

  62.  #62Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 5:55 am

    something else. I did not think I was giving to get, I thought I was giving out of love, and in order to create fun and romance. So, the way I look at it now, it is not because I was giving-to get, the problem was that I was giving, and doing, and he was, unwillingly put in the receiving position. This is the thing I need to be very careful about. But then, when nothing is coming my way, I get bored and restless… and I have not found any new CDs. Shame.

  63.  #63IamHis on January 24, 2015 at 6:46 am

    So, New Guy had to cancel on me last night. So, to make up for it, he called me. Literally, like seven times. We talked well over an hour. It was mostly me, listening to him. I can tell he’s a really good, strong, albeit sensitive guy.

    I hate to say it, but I do feel a bit smothered. He told me he has a thing for me. We haven’t even been on a second date yet.

    He wants to make it up to me by taking me out to dinner as soon as I’m free.

    I don’t know how I feel. Space would feel good.

    Space always feels so good to me.

    I know I’m terrified of intimacy.

    I always feel like the guy in relationships, the one who needs space or isn’t sure…

  64.  #64Andrea on January 24, 2015 at 7:24 am

    Azure… I love this conversation. (Another little brother story coming on…)

    My little brother, 39 yrs old, oh boy, he is not only extremely handsome, but professional and a lead singer in a Chicago cover band. This young man… six years ago he was a staunch religious republican. He spouted his rock hard beliefs.. he was against any group that was marginalized and ill represented. He was racist, sexist..

    And yet, a beautiful spirit, a smart talented man. I recognized how insecure he was. Lot’s of things from our childhood… but he waxed republican in the face of his insecurities, he was angry at all types of different groups in the face of what he thought of as his failures, he was so stubborn. Our brothers wondered how any woman could ever stand to live with him much less love him.

    But they did. Oh women fall for that guy.

    Anyway, skip to this year. Now he’s an advocate of A Course in Miracles. He’s written me letters about Marianne Williamson’s book about love. He’s this peaceful, gentle, soulful man who is just a joy to hear from and converse with.

    What changed him? I don’t know. But he’s changed.

    What seemed like his complete and total belief’s and character back a half decade ago are now just forgotten whimsy. And he is not a flaky man by any means. He just softened. It happens.

  65.  #65Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Femininewoman #40- You are right when its asked for its not so much a surprise. I just felt like awww…he’s feeling neglected (worried about his feelings again) and I do enjoy cooking for him because he’s usually very appreciative. Plus its something I’m good at and I kind of enjoy showing off, lol. You are right though, I should pay attention to how I feel when I do it.

  66.  #66Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Cutie #42- I love this post! Thank you for reminding me of the waterwheel and splashing a little back onto him once in awhile. The once for every 5-7 times he does something for me, sounds like a good rule of thumb. I like hearing how your relationship is going for you now too. 🙂 It sounds fabulous and like you have a great arrangement going on now.

  67.  #67Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Victoria #50- Yes! Your post is also very helpful. My man is a big lover of food too and I have to be careful what my reasons are for cooking for him. I don’t want to do it to try and earn his love. I need to really watch that it is only giving as a spillover when I am feeling full of love/affection/water? (lol) and he’s been being giving towards me.

  68.  #68Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 8:46 am

    I suspect there is a part of all of us that loves drama. We say we hate it, but it exposes the emotions. Sometimes it seems like the only way to get them out of a person. If we haven’t learned healthy ways to share emotions with a person we can end up using drama to get there. Plus, the vast majority of men haven’t learned how to express their emotions and sometimes drama seems like the only avenue to see if they care about us.

    I am NOT saying that is healthy, at all, but it is what a lot of people revert to. The little voice inside of us is shouting, “he’s getting sooo upset over this, he cares about me!” Plus, it causes him to INVEST in us emotionally, and we all want that.

    It’s just the wrong way of getting him to invest and show he cares. I’ve caught my guy doing this to ME. He’s actually said that sometimes it seems like the only way to get me to really open up to him is to provoke me into an argument that involves anger and tears. He made a joke about showing me pictures of dead puppies to get me going. :p

    That was shortly before I found the Rori Raye ebook, and it made soo much sense some of the stuff she says. It IS good to show your feelings to a man, just not in the way that we sometimes are inclined to do it, that involves blaming HIM for how we feel.

  69.  #69Olivia on January 24, 2015 at 8:47 am

    I read a little gossip online — looks like she broke up with him because he’s an alcoholic —


    Would not be surprised if she continues her siren ways he cleans up his act and they get back together —
    That is if she cares about him any more by then —
    Good for her!

  70.  #70Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 8:58 am

    My emotions are up, down and all over the place. He’s still being distant. I only got 2 texts from him yesterday, the first was asking me to answer a business email for him. I responded, 30 min later, with “done :)” and he said “thanks”. That’s it. Nothing more, and on a Friday night. 🙁

    I keep trying to take my mind off it, to reassure myself, to think on other things. It’s just HARD. I went to that other guy’s house last night, the boring guy, and we had sex, but the whole time I was really missing the guy I like. I’m very noncommunicative with this boring guy, I just have no desire to open myself up to him. Yet he will say we “communicate well”. Uh, no, he talks about himself all the time and seems vaguely uninterested if I talk about things in MY life. I feel like looking for excuses not to see him anymore.

    I’ve been having bouts of anger and distrust towards the man who has pulled away from me. I wonder if it will be hard for me when he wants to see me again, because I feel angry and hurt by his distance. Is there a way to express that or is it better just to say nothing? I know Rori says “say nothing” when he hasn’t called.

    I can’t help but wonder if his real reason is that he is spending time with another woman. 🙁 What if he is trying to get back with his ex? What if there is someone new? My stomach is in knots.

  71.  #71Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 9:10 am

    You need to give yourself what he is not giving you – attention, care, a favorite activity.
    It totally does not matter what he is doingand who he is seeing.
    You need to give love to yourself.

  72.  #72Andrea on January 24, 2015 at 9:29 am

    Here here!! Victoria!! A good message for all of us.

  73.  #73Liquid Light on January 24, 2015 at 9:32 am

    I just got two gorgeous dresses delivered in the mail. One is black with embroidered red flowers, it has sheer long sleeves and flares below the waist. Its so feminine. I love it. The other has a silver and gray flowery pattern with black sides and short black sleeves. Its fitted and so cute. I’m love them and can’t wait to wear them. The black one with red flowers would be perfect for valentine’s day!

  74.  #74Andrea on January 24, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Lovergirl, I feel confused about something. I thought the guy that you’re interested in told you that he didn’t want a relationship with you.

    Did I misread something here? I’m sorry if I did. I was just wondering why you’re investing so much emotion and anger into someone who has been honest with you and who is just doing what he wants to do.

    I guess it feels to me like you are feeling like he owes you something???? Or there is some kind of injustice going on here.

    If he said he doesn’t want a relationship, then… he really doesn’t want a relationship. Isn’t that right? Or…

  75.  #75Andrea on January 24, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Darn LL, I wish we could see pictures of each other. I would love to see how those dresses fit you so beautifully and sireny. What are you going to where them for?

  76.  #76Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 9:50 am

    @71 Victoria-

    Thank you, you are right…and of course, right after I posted on here, he texted me! He wants to come with me to a party tonight. I had told him about it a week ago, and asked if he wanted to come. He says he is coming along to keep me “safe” lol. I guess from all the bad boys that are going to be there! 😉 Actually, there is some validity in his statement and I do feel safer going with him along, even though it may mess up my mojo with other men.

  77.  #77Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 9:58 am

    @ Andrea- he SAYS he doesn’t want a relationship, you are correct. Well, he says that some of the time. Other times he says that he is catching feelings for me and that it has him WANTING that with me but he feels like logically, its not a good idea (because of my having 5 kids).

    He has, several times, SAID that he has started imagining a future with me but that it is something he feels like he can’t have. He said that on his own, brought up the relationship discussion himself, several times. So many of his ACTIONS feel like someone that really cares about and loves me. I do not FEEL like he doesn’t want a relationship, I feel like he is “on the fence” and I could push him one way or another.

    So really, I am confused and HOPING that he will change his mind. He takes so many steps that seem to be moving forward, like giving me the key to his apartment and talking about wanting me to be a full on partner with him in his home business. He TREATS me, the majority of the time, like someone he is in a relationship with. Then he will say things like that we really DO have a relationship, even if we aren’t calling it that (duh) or call me his “girlfriend”.

    Anyway, I feel like it is a special case, lol. Maybe I am wrong but he gives off so many “relationship friendly” signals that it is hard to see it that way.

  78.  #78Labbit on January 24, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Victoria, Andrea, Indigo, Azure, I love the conversation you are having around drama and how men can change (or not change!). I’m taking lots of notes. 🙂

    63 IamHis — As the feminine-energy partner you have the benefit of setting the pace of the relationship. Which is pretty awesome in my opinion! Masculine-energy men will often rush in without thinking, kind of like bulldozing their way through the china shop.

    If you need space it is absolutely yours to take. Don’t feel like you have to answer the phone every time a man calls or respond to his texts within a certain timeframe. I have felt this way too — like I had to answer to him in a certain period of time or else risk making him mad. I understand now the importance of keeping my own rhythm…not letting any man knock me off of that. He will respect you much more for this too. You don’t have to explain yourself either — your actions will quite clearly tell him all he needs to know, that you are high value woman.

  79.  #79Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 10:36 am

    I feel silly I was accidentally posting on the previous thread – oopsies!! Thankfully, Labbit and Kristi Kay stopped in to save the day lol. VERY helpful stuff. Hope all the sirens are having a fantastic weekend!

  80.  #80Gear on January 24, 2015 at 10:38 am

    The Guy A who turned me off because not able to step up to set up date just text me, asked me how I have been? I don’t know how to respond to be in a place of feminine energy. My first reaction was “who is this?” As I had deleted all his old text record. Then what?

  81.  #81Indigo on January 24, 2015 at 10:53 am


    I found the stuff Labbit and Kristy posted to you incredibly helpful for myself, so thank you!

  82.  #82Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Indigo, I’m so glad you found it helpful, too! : )

  83.  #83Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Gear, I’m not sure what to say … If it feels good to resume contact with him, you could go with a classic feeling message, like, “I’m feeling all cozy and relaxed with a book,” or whatever it is you’re up to today.

  84.  #84Victoria on January 24, 2015 at 11:20 am

    I understand your situation. And I think your strategy with a man on the fence must be just like your stragy with any man – lean back, do not chase, do not overfunction and keep CDing.
    It is quite annoying that he says you having 5 kids is a problem. I have a close friend who is divorced with two teenage kids who has been dating a single guy for the last 10 years or so. He explicitly told her that it is a problem for him to marry her because she has two kids. She would have gladly had kids with him as well in the first years but he was always on the fence. In the last year or so he has been beginng her to have his child, with or without marriage. She says, no way, you missed your chance, and he is devastated.
    I am sayingg this to remind you that you are the prize, you are absolutely an amazing prize, and if he thinks differently he is at great loss.

  85.  #85Andrea on January 24, 2015 at 11:31 am

    ((((( Lovergirl)))))) hmmmmmm….

    Have you gone over to Leigha Lake’s site: Bring Him Close . com ??

    Oh Lovergirl, you will gain such a wealth of refreshing knowledge and renew your understanding of Rori’s way. There’s so much there that has helped me learn what Lean Back is really all about, and how pushing and nudging and trying to Get Him to change his mind is so stressful to us and causes us such needless pain and confusion.

    I’m reading Leigha, Tatia Dee, and Helena. I go to those sites when ever I feel overwhelmed with the emotions and fears that my own thoughts, doubts, and insecurities cause me.

    So, I so understand where you’re coming from. But, I think if a man says that he doesn’t want a relationship right now, he really means it, and all the other stuff is just stuff, and in his mind he is free and clear to pursue anyone else he wants to because he’s told you…

  86.  #86Mistea1 on January 24, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Hello Sirens,
    My computer just spent four days in the shop getting malware removed. Runs so much better now.

    Just finished catching up on the blogs. Good stuff everyone. I am going to update my POF and make another try at it. Still writing Lawguy.

    Massive media deluge about MusicTd around here colored pics, interviews the whole 9 yards. I don’t feel especially triggered, a tad of regret maybe. Not enough to make me go to the recital tomorrow. I’ve heard enough.

    I’m listening to La Boeme by Puccini on the Metropolitan Opera radio broadcast. It has the very aria I heard in my head one time I was listening to him explain that he was breaking an apppointment he had scheduled with me. I was so surprised to hear it with complete orchestra acompaniment so loud it drowned out what he was saying. I was sure I had gone mad! At least I can understand a little how composers say they hear the music in their heads. Very moving and sad and beautiful.

  87.  #87Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Kristi Kay, it may just be my computer, but for some reason I was unable to listen to your audio on anger?

  88.  #88Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 12:33 pm

    Lovergirl, for what it’s worth, I agree with Andrea’s comment in post 85:

    “I think if a man says that he doesn’t want a relationship right now, he really means it, and all the other stuff is just stuff, and in his mind he is free and clear to pursue anyone else he wants to because he’s told you…”

    If it were me, I would use the “Rori Raye Third Way” here, where you go ahead and keep seeing him when it happens in ways that feel good to you / respect your boundaries, but also be actively CDing and practicing the tools with at least two other guys at the same time.

    This seems like it would be the most powerful way to INSPIRE him to step up and claim you in the way you want to be claimed by him. But that would just be a secondary byproduct of the more important factor here — you taking good care of yourself! : )

    I feel a little confused about your other casual sex situation. I can’t tell from your comments whether going over to “boring guy” for sex really feels good to you or not?

  89.  #89Labbit on January 24, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Azure Blu I love hearing about how melty you were on your date with Spirit…and how he melted in response! I know how hard it can be to open yourself up around a man when you’re not really sure where things stand or where they are going…but no matter what happens with Spirit you deserve every moment of ooey goodness!!! Practicing being open (so long as your boundaries aren’t trampled) is the way to go. So sweet!!!

  90.  #90Labbit on January 24, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    Cutie echoing Indigo I loved Kristy’s response to you, very helpful for me too! And I appreciate you being so open about your learning process and experience of growing your relationship…thank you for being so open and sharing the insights you’ve picked up along with the moments when you struggle.

  91.  #91Liquid Light on January 24, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    Andrea 75, they do fit pretty well, I got lucky since I ordered them online. I’m not sure where I’ll wear them but hopefully on some dates!

  92.  #92Beloved on January 24, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    Sirens… for the moment I feel exhausted from moving, and… wow, if I am dreaming I do not want to wake up.
    As I was unloading my stuff into my new place today, TG my housemate pulled up with a friend, and they both got out, beaming at me.
    TG found a dresser for me at a yard sale down the street and bought it for me. Wha????
    He was so proud, and it’s beautiful, which is especially awesome because I can be so picky about stuff.
    He’s just… handling stuff like a boss and I feel so cared for and relaxed. Wow.

  93.  #93Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Labbit, thank you so much for your comment! Makes me feel very warm and embraced. I’m realizing how good and helpful it feels to share my struggles on here. The wise feedback is REALLY helping me unravel my patterns in healthier ways.

  94.  #94Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    Wow, Beloved, your new house mate sounds like quite the masculine giver! What wonderful energy to be around in your home! I feel nosy asking this, and you may have already said, but are there feelings of romantic attraction there? Obviously, feel free to ignore the question if it feels too nosy ; )

  95.  #95Liquid Light on January 24, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    I fell off the wagon and leaned forward with a former cd. ughh. He didn’t respond well to it and now I”m feeling sort of embarrassed. Oh well. I really liked him and he was newly separated when we dated briefly about 6 months ago. His being separated really freaked me out at time (I had never dated anyone who was separated) and was pretty skeptical when we dated before. Then he had back problems and had to go through surgery and take time off work. Well he’s had his surgery and is back at work. I started freaking out since I imagined that his back was better, he’s feeling better and pretty soon he’s going to be in a relationship (he’s very cute, fun and successful, and can befriend strangers instantly, its uncanny) and so I started to panic a bit and reached out to him. Sure enough he said he just started a relationship. Ughh. The way the whole thing played out just make me feel rejected and humiliated. 🙁

  96.  #96Gear on January 24, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Hi cutie 83, thanks for your tip. That felt the right thing to do. I text him first, “who is this?” He replied his name again, actually his text message had his name, I pretended I didn’t know. Then reminded me that we went out for two dates.

    Now my wanted to says, “oh, you are the one who never setup date in advance.”

    Would that break the rules? Or is it in siren energy? What would be a more sireny response? Our last communication, I text him that I felt confused, and felt turned off. That was a over a month ago.

  97.  #97Beloved on January 24, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    Cutie – the moment I met him, when I went to see the room and opened the door, my whole body just felt like melting wax and springtime, haha.
    I thought, “YOU, yes.” It felt so perfect and so right, I feel I could cry thinking about it. I felt home.
    I don’t feel “attracted” so much as I feel at ease.
    It would not hurt my feelings at all if he and I ended up together, a few thoughts have crossed my mind about it. I’m practicing staying on my horse and not dwelling on it.

    I also felt great about an online interaction last night.
    I had briefly chatted with a guy, who I thought was asking for my number, but I sort of got a little carried away with the teasing and joking and clowning and it fell kind of flat and I hadn’t picked up the conversation.
    So, with “Love Scripts for Dating” fresh in my mind, I felt it out with myself, and decided to ask him, “Hey, so what happened? I thought you were asking me for my number and then it sort of felt confused after that.”
    Of course, IMMEDIATELY, the NV’s started up about how shameful and desperate I must be, and what this guy must be thinking of me, and how he can probably smell the reek of desperation and all of that stuff…
    Yet my instincts told me, this is a simple kind of guy, and I threw him off with my antics.
    My instincts said, yes, just ask him what happened.
    So I looked around, noticed that, the world wasn’t falling down around my shoulders, nothing horrible was happening, and I shifted my focus to packing.
    He replied right away…”Yeah, I was asking for your number. My phone was acting up and I didn’t really know what happened.”
    My sense is, he is just shy.
    So, he called RIGHT away, I felt very comfortable with him, he was just a good guy. (So it seems…I know, haha). He knows I’m moving this weekend and wants to call me next week to set up a time to go hiking which I LOVE!!!!!
    My heart still feels sad that SR stood me up, and also, after reviewing Love Scripts for Dating, I felt like I handled the conversation I had with him the night before perfectly. That guy LIKES me. That guy caught the FEELS for me. He felt like a middle school kid (he told me this). When he said that, I felt like…crap, he’s going to get scared of his feelings. Playa types like him don’t like it when their passion and vulnerable feelings get all stirred up. And I know not to chase them anymore.

  98.  #98Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Gear, if it was me, I would NOT say anything about him not setting up the dates in advance. What did his last text to you say?

  99.  #99Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Beloved, that sounds fantastic! I love that you feel at ease … what an important feeling!

  100.  #100Gear on January 24, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    Cutie 98, thank you.
    He text to remind me “we went out for two dates.”

  101.  #101Emerson on January 24, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    Hi Sirens, I am feeling a little toxic right now….

    I consider them dear friends but I will limit my exposure to them and I want to spend more time by myself, which surprises me…

    One of my friends tends to man bash almost every time we are together, almost like I don’t know how to change the conversation because it always comes back to that. She is very skeptical of the idea of healthy male-female long term relationships.

    Another friend of mine is still bitter after a bad breakup 2 years ago and has a prickly energy about 90 percent of the time,,,she can be abrasive and judgmental, and has (in my opinion) poor sexual boundaries and poor boundaries overall. In addition to that, she is not open to self improvement as I’ve tried to steer her towards Rori’s tools or self help books, etc…she snorts at these ideas…..rolls her eyes, etc..but then continues to complain how bad she is feeling.

    I find myself using a lot of energy to deflect the energy from these two because it’s so negative and toxic….I end up feeling tense because I play devils advocate and refuse to agree to the man bashing and i refuse to endorse what I consider irresponsible sexual behavior, only to hear the complaints afterwards.

    I’m not perfect myself, but I love men and I know there are good ones out there. I also don’t find any joy in man bashing or having sex with lots of people, which I feel they are doing that to cover up pain. It’s really a downer to be around them and I feel sad because I love them both dearly.

    I also feel humbled because I did something stupid yesterday (drank too much and blacked out)…so I am not perfect at all and I have my own ways of not dealing well with my pain. So I intend to improve on that. I don’t know why I did that since I rarely drink alcohol, but it was pretty out of control and it scared me when I woke up this morning and realized I don’t remember a good portion of the evening.

    I feel grateful to be going back to work this next week even though I’ve enjoyed time off…I’m craving routine and being productive.

  102.  #102Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Gear, OK, if it was me, I would respond with something like, “Oh cool, feels nice to hear from you!” … if that’s true and if you actually WANT to respond to him. But since he didn’t ask you a question or anything, you could leave it alone and not respond, too. Whatever feels best for you. Just my take.

  103.  #103Gear on January 24, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Here is the full text up to now.
    He: “Xxxx, how have you been? Todd.”
    Me: ” who is this?”
    He: “Todd from match.”
    Me: ” which Todd?” “I am feeling excited about my trip.”
    He:”we went out for two dates.”

  104.  #104Gear on January 24, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    Cutie, 192, thank you. I guess I can’t let the convention go with my natural tendency. 🙂 my natural feeling is still upset that the incidents. I pretty much wrote him off. But now he surfaced, I feel he would be a good one for me to practice something that I had failed last time. My weak boundary.

    Maybe I could use it as an opportunity to test my boundary, am I strong on the inside and soft on the outside yet?

    What doe cutie and other lovely sirens think how should I respond to him? Or proceed?

  105.  #105Gear on January 24, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    Conversation, not convention

  106.  #106Cutie on January 24, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Gear, what do you mean, use it as an opportunity to test your boundary?

    Hopefully other sirens will chime in with their own feelings on the situation. All I can tell you is what I would do if it were me.

    If it was a man I still wanted to stay open to and potentially allow into my CD rotation once again, I would just say, “Oh cool, feels nice to hear from you!”

    If it was a man that I did NOT want to date anymore because he did not treat me in a way that felt good to me, I would simply not respond at all.

  107.  #107Gear on January 24, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Cutie, 106, thank you for your feedback. I feel what you said make sense. The difficult part is that I don’t know if I want to let him back in the rotation. What I know about him was last time, (actually I posted a few regarding him frustrated me for letting me linger when and where was the date. He was not telling me until the last minute.) I let him led me because he had thrown out the marriage topic before met me. Everything felt so well at the very very beginning.

    Well, my impression about him has not changed, I don’t know if it worth it to let him back in. I felt like if he jumped the hoop, I might reconsider to let him in. But I don’t want to be too masculine, either…how can I be as soft on the outside and strong on the inside.

  108.  #108Gear on January 24, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    Recently another recycled case, was my last bf F of one month who brokeup with me in oct. Text me two weeks ago, and asked me out for lunch. I softly declined, as I was fasting. He asked me when the fasting ends, I told him ends jan. 25th. So he emailed me on Thursday. Told me again that he enjoyed the time with me, when he was dating me, (totally 3-4 months) he still considers me a good friend, and I am a nice person.

    With F, he treated me, both well, and not so well. He definitely cared for me, took my business as his own business, planned future with me, but the same time, he was trying to change me, made me felt criticized and unaccepted. It was after him I found Rori. But now I feel that the new me want someone better than him.

    I do want to take him back to the CD, but then I feel afraid that I would fall in love again, then it would be a roller coaster again.

    From his email, he wanted to be my friend. I have not responded yet, nor do I know whether I should respond and how.

  109.  #109Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    @84 Victoria- Thank you and yes… I try to remember I am the prize, though sometimes it is hard to imagine a man really being willing to take on 5 kids. I do understand the reluctance because it is a huge responsibility. With him, I feel like it is because he takes it very seriously and would want to be a good stepparent if he were in that situation.

  110.  #110Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    #85 Andrea-

    No, I haven’t and thank you for that! I will check out that site.

    I know that he is able to pursue other women and wants that option to stay open. It’s hard. 🙁 I am also seeing other men, but he is the one I really would rather be with.

  111.  #111Femininewoman on January 24, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    Lovergirl I imagine he would want to be a great dad but trust me, that was never an excuse of any man if he really wanted the woman. He will take her with 10 kids and pregnant to boot. Look around you. I am sure you will find some proof.

  112.  #112Lovergirl on January 24, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    #88 Cutie-

    Yes, I think the third way is the way for me! I was already seeing other men, but it is mostly sexual, which does complicate things. I need to work a little more on actual, real, circular dating where I practice the tools outside of sex.

    The boring guy, yeah, I’m just not into him. He’s not doing anything all that awful, and is actually respectful and nice, so it feels mean to cut him off. I’m just not feeling it though. Maybe I should.

    Today was kind of a mess. The guy I like said he wanted to go to this party with me tonight, one I had mentioned like a week ago. Okay, great. I was happy he was going to do so.

    I had made plans this afternoon with another man. This is a guy I have known for a couple of years. I see him as a friend with occasional sex. He’s in an open relationship with a long time live in girlfriend. We actually hadn’t seen each other for about 7-8 months- he lives an hour away, but we sometimes text and he knows about the guy I am all into. I ask his advice about man things from time to time.

    So the guy I like calls and asks me to come over for a bit. This is typical, as we usually spend Saturdays together, but there was no set plan beforehand. I said I cant right now, but maybe this evening. He demanded to know why.

    At first I wouldn’t tell him and he was getting angry. I asked “do you really want to know?” He insisted he did so I told him I had plans with another guy. He was like yeah, you mean plans to have sex right? I honestly admitted that yes, those were the plans.

    He flipped! Now keep in mind that he does occasionally also have casual sex with women. It’s not just me doing it. In fact, I went several months only sleeping with him. He said that I had a “double standard” because I had recently expressed that I was afraid of losing him to another woman.

    Only..his RESPONSE to that, was the comments that he still didn’t feel like we could have a relationship. Okay. He says he wants me to feel free to date other men. Okay. However, whenever he finds out about it (like today), he gets UPSET. He either says I am not telling him things and he feels deceived or he says I am “throwing it in his face”. He will never be 100% clear on whether or not he wants to know about my dating/sexual activities.

    This time he was angry because he said I had “no intention of telling him” beforehand and that he didn’t want to go to the party with me after I’d been with another man. I said okay and he said he doesn’t want us to talk about our sex lives/dating with other people anymore. He said he can’t handle it.

    That is kind of a relief, because I really don’t want to have to tell him anyway. I kind of like knowing what he is up to with women because it is less scary to me to KNOW and not have to wonder, but he hadn’t been telling me stuff the past couple of weeks. That is part of why I was getting scared in the first place.

    He said we can still have sex and he still wants me to work for him, but he just doesn’t want to know about me seeing other men and that he can’t handle going to parties with me either. The guy I slept with would have been at the party and I can see that part bothered him too. He doesn’t like being “with” me and not able to stake his claim.

    Anyway, I felt bad that he was upset and it was very hard for me not to be over reassuring. He had said I should just go to the party with the other guy and I told him I will probably skip it. I said I could still do work with him later but if he doesn’t want to I understand.

    Then I told him it would feel weird/awkward going to the party with this guy since he has a girlfriend, even though they are open. He texted back quite awhile later saying “it’s all good, no need to explain”.

    I texted him again, a few hours later (after I got back) and just said this:

    I don’t feel that I have a double standard. I admitted that I felt hurt but that I don’t have a claim on you without a relationship. It works both ways.

    Haven’t heard from him since, and that was like an hour and a half ago.

  113.  #113Mandy on January 24, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    I feel triggered, because I got new glasses…

    Weird sounding I know. It was my very first insecurity as a child.

    But now it’s because I know J has a fetish for women in glasses and is turned on when he sees strangers wearing them….I mean he goes almost overboard nuts about it…

    But he seems to give less of a shit if I’m wearing them. It may sound trivial, trite and petty, but it does feel awful.

    I hate that I am stuck here right now. I should’ve gone out tonite.

  114.  #114Gemini Goddess on January 24, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    So interesting that I am so irritated right now.It is my custody night. D sent a text earlier saying to let him know when the kids are asleep and he’d com over and watch a movie with me (They have met him, but I prefer to keep evening visits separate). I’m irritated because he said to put them to be early and then when I give him the heads up, he still has to take a shower and shave. I’m frankly glad for the extra time for myself but still irritated. I’m irritated because I feel so so available on my custody nights. And because I hope he’ll be “driven” to see me EVERY night like at the beginning. It’s not like he hasn’t given and given and given in the last week. In fact I’m overwhelmed by it, but still so IRRITATED tonight. What is my deal? This is one I will not bring up to him. I’m not stuffing my feelings. I’ve got a half hour to process/vent/whatever…so here I am.

  115.  #115Gemini Goddess on January 24, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    …And he’s late. DOWN gremlins, DOWN!

  116.  #116Mistea1 on January 24, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    Aww, so sorry. But it did give me a little chuckle before I head off to bed. Hope it improves for you!

  117.  #117Gear on January 24, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    103/104/107, I didn’t text him back. Didn’t feel the need to respond.

    I feel I have improved, between 100% and nothing, I can stay in the middle somewhere, to reveal some of my feelings! let some boil inside! like the soup! and also not go over board, let the emotion control me. Leave it gray.

    I am a people pleaser, like to make others happy. If I were with a man, I’d like to make the man happy. Now I did express some of my feelings, which had nothing to do with him. I also didn’t go all the way back to full communication with him. Not to make him easily get what he wanted. – stopped my people pleasing tendency. I feel happy to leave things where they are. If he does step up further, I will deal with it then. What do you sirens feel?

  118.  #118Gemini Goddess on January 25, 2015 at 1:05 am

    Ha! Thanks, Mistea1! I crack my own self up sometimes, too.

    Rest of the night from an impartial stand-point was…fine. But I wanted to pick fights all…night…long! WHAT is my deal? I could actually feel myself building a pissy case for about four different totally stupid things that were stretches at best. I did not, thank heavens. I settled for just a slightly distant, slightly cool energy, NOT my normal warm, enthusiastic self.

    He was very affectionate and couldn’t bring himself to leave. I was so “leaned back” I was stand-offish and I did not feel like sharing how I felt. I wasn’t upset at him, I was just listening to the NV cat-fight going on in my head and trying to keep my hands over my mouth. So weird, but definitely progress. In the past I would not have been able to resist some kind of needling, some passive aggressive, “victim-feeling” argument. I do not know why I have/had this urge, but very VERY grateful to have identified it first, and not caved.

    Yuck…and Yay.

  119.  #119Femininewoman on January 25, 2015 at 2:31 am

    Lovergirl sounds like a very toxic situation. Also sounds like somehow you don’t value yourself much.

  120.  #120Lovergirl on January 25, 2015 at 3:24 am


    Regarding men being with women with 10 kids and pregnant, I have seen stuff like this, but not with very high quality men. As far as valuing myself, I feel like I do. I’m not opposed to casual sex and am actually very picky about who I sleep with. Like I said, I went several months without sleeping with anyone but him, but decided that since he is not making a commitment I would jump back in with both feet.

    Like the guy I was with yesterday, we hadn’t seen each other in months but we are friendly and keep in touch over text. I can talk to him about anything. He is a GREAT guy, a good friend and fantastic in bed. I don’t regret sleeping with him at all and he and his girlfriend have an open relationship. He is very respectful of her.

    The boring guy, well, he’s a little bit boring but as far as how he treats me, its pretty good. He has bought me expensive stuff, made me dinners, taken me out, and been respectful. I just am not that excited by him.

    As for the guy I like sleeping with other women, its the same, until there is some kind of commitment neither of us has an obligation to be chaste. He’s been very open and honest with me about things. When I felt jealous recently, he didn’t actually do anything WRONG, its just how I felt.

  121.  #121Indigo on January 25, 2015 at 3:49 am


    As far as I am concerned, it is all about what you can handle emotionally. In many ways, you are the ultimate cool girl. Many if not most women would not be able to handle that situation, but if you are able to be clear on what it all means, on where the boundaries lie, have a good handle on your expectations and are taking good care of yourself and still being open to dating other men, then I say more power to you.

    As I say, my situation is in many ways similar, although I don’t think I would be able to handle it quite how you have it set up. I need sexual monogamy in the sense of sleeping with one person at a time – even though D and I don’t have a commitment, I could never sleep with more than one person at a time and I couldn’t handle it if he did that either. I am really just going with Rori’s third way – not chasing or overfunctioning (or trying to heal from that anyway), not initiating, dating other men and spending time with him if it feels good to me, and using it as an opportunity to learn about myself.

    D is also similar to your guy in that he cannot bear to hear about any guy I’ve gone out with – and he also never talks about women he may have gone out with to me either. Once when he did know that I was dating someone he tried to convince me to break up with him, and another time he exploded at me and accused me of trying to hurt him. Anyway, I’ve realized that whatever his reasons for not being able to commit to me, he can’t handle this side of things so I don’t mention it. Really wouldn’t want to talk about this side of things with him anyway!

  122.  #122IamHis on January 25, 2015 at 6:19 am

    5 voice mails. 4 are from him. Good grief!

  123.  #123Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 6:30 am

    GG #114,15 & 18
    Wow!!! I feel VERY inspired!!!!

    To were feeling all of that while you were with D and you kept it to yourself (IMO was VERY good idea) IS AMAZING!

    I don’t know about you…
    but for me.. when I start being really picky about little stuff – when my man has been giving and spending time, and I should be Happy…
    It’s ME feeling overwhelmed
    with TOO MUCH Emotional INTIMACY
    so I’ll make stuff up
    to get back the space *I* THINK I need…
    But YOU didn’t cave and pick a fight
    You hung in there even though you were feeling
    much discomfort!!
    YOU ARE building your emotional Intimacy muscles!!!

  124.  #124Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 7:13 am

    Gear #117
    You are sounding very Sireny…
    Leaning back… realizing YOU are the Prize…
    These guys showed a little of who they were before…
    and you weren’t too impressed… there are Many others that will come around… practice on them! ;->

  125.  #125April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Other feelings/thoughts/niggles about the question I raised earlier on this thread.

    I am thinking about the ‘practicality’ of dating and being a target for Mr Right.

    And while I think it is wonderful practice to be melty and emotionally open to a variety of men, I only want to give them a certain amount of my time before I decide if we are a match.

    Waiting for someone to ‘change’, including wanting them to change their political or religious beliefs, to me comes under the category of trying to change a man and affect the outcome, which as we know goes against Rori’s 4 rules.

    I see Azure Blu as simply becoming more invested and emotionally attached, and allowing a man to access her heart who has not yet proved worthy.

    The question which returns to me is “If he stays as he is and doesn’t change, can you accept him as he is?”

    This concept of warming and opening a man who is not already showing up as the man we want, feels a little ‘off’ to me.
    It kind of smells like ‘fixing’ him.

  126.  #126April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:07 am


    I really hope for myself (and you too) that one day it becomes totally matter-of-fact to say to EVERY man “yes, of course I am dating. I owe it to myself to keep options open until I discover the best relationship I can have in my life, that will lead to realising my dreams of marriage, travel, a home with land and horses, and a couple of adopted children” (for example).

    I wish for us that we lose the fear of hurting a man’s feelings. And that we increase our confidence that we CAN have what we want. And we quieten the part of us that tiptoes around ANY particular man.

    I just get the sense that being more honest with D would give him a wake up call. Can you trust him to handle his own feelings in response to you speaking your truth?

  127.  #127April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:13 am


  128.  #128April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:17 am

    From Adam Gilad’s latest e-mail

    ” I find too often that women are simply not asking for what they want or need in relationships because they are afraid of losing the man. But if he’s not giving you what you want and need – he’s not your Right Man “

  129.  #129Indigo on January 25, 2015 at 9:20 am

    April Rose 126,

    Do you think so?

    There is a part of me right now which is fantasizing about telling him, if I need to leave and go somewhere, “Oh I’m just going on a date” (if I am) and just letting the chips fall where they may.

    This part of myself feels brazen and carefree and diva-like. Can I give voice to this part of myself? I think I can work up to it. The reason I have not mentioned it before is because I do not look forward to his sulks. But I suppose part of this new me would be letting him have his sulk and just letting it be what it is and just tolerating that.

  130.  #130April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:29 am


    Yes, totally.
    Men are so emotionally intelligent.
    He knows you would rather ‘fit yourself around him’ emotionally in order to avoid his sulking.
    I feel so delighted that you are ‘working up to it’ and being open to letting him sulk.

    This feels really deep. I am working on this just now.

    How to be utterly authentic no matter what effect I perceive it causes in others. And believe me I have pulled back my natural expression many times because I thought it would upset a man. And in the long-run it crippled my ability to spontaneously express myself truthfully in any situation (which is how I want to live).

  131.  #131April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:32 am

    And it seems important to be discerning as well.

    As in talking about dating and your reasons for dating, rather than getting into any detail about the dates.

    He needs to hear that you are open to discovering the best relationship for your life.

    He may then ask himself if he needs to step up or risk losing you.

  132.  #132Indigo on January 25, 2015 at 9:37 am

    April Rose 125,

    I like what you’ve said here: “And while I think it is wonderful practice to be melty and emotionally open to a variety of men, I only want to give them a certain amount of my time before I decide if we are a match.”

    I went on a first-time dinner date with a man on Monday night whom I decided not to see again because he talked endlessly about work and the money he’s made and his achievements and then moved onto the dodgy subject of ex-girlfriends where I felt a bit like a therapist. He hardly asked me any questions about myself. Since then I got daily generic messages from him which didn’t once use my name (I suspect they were bulk text messages being sent to a number of women) which said things like “Hope you have a great day” and “what are your plans for the weekend?” His attempt to see me again consisted of an email which said “Give me a shout if you’re free and we can catch up”. I decided that even though he had been a gentleman on our date, I did not want to pursue this.

    A guy I had a first coffee date with today was perfectly lovely and a good conversationalist, but I can see there is little chemistry for me there. I will see him again maybe I think just to make sure, but I don’t want to invest too much time there. On the other hand, there is a guy whom I’ve met once before who is taking me out to dinner tomorrow night, and I’m really looking forward to seeing him again. I think my point is, I agree with you, time is limited, and I only want to spend it with people I’m a bit excited about.

  133.  #133April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 9:49 am

    Re 125 and 132 and deciding if a man is a match for us:

    I think there are two potential pitfalls here. One scenario is us deciding ‘no’ too soon, and the other is when we could say (and may be best saying) ‘no’ but don’t.

    1. There are men we dismiss early on, and haven’t given them enough time to let down all their armour. (Which we can facilitate by practicing the tools)

    2. There are men we get excited about who just need a little ‘tweak’ or ‘fix’ to make them right for us (and so we are always ‘settling’).

    Either way, I think a couple of months is what is needed for us to feel which kind of man is in front of us.

  134.  #134Lovergirl on January 25, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Indigo 121-

    Thank you. I am at a point in my life where even in a long term relationship, I’m not sure sexual monogamy is a must have for me. Emotionally, I want monogamy, but an open relationship is a possibility. The guy I like and I have discussed this and we are both sort of in the same place there, like hmmm…what could I handle/really want in the long term? I guess we are still in the process of discovering what we really feel about it all with each other too.

    Like the guy I saw yesterday, he has been with the same woman for over a decade and they are raising a child together. Yet their relationship is open and from everything I have seen, appears to be happy and functional. So I know that it CAN work with some people. I’m just not sure about myself yet.

    It sounds like D is similar in a lot of ways. My guy can surprise me with sudden jealousy because he often pretends like he is not. I feel kind of smug when he gets upset though, like well, you have it coming to you if you don’t want to commit to me- yet at the same time I feel bad for him and want to comfort him and make it better and be all worried about HIS feelings.

    He just called me and asked me to come over today, for sex. He said that it was just going to be that and be cut short because he has other things to do today, but he wouldn’t say what. I asked “so you want to use me for sex?” and he said nevermind, if I was going to be like that then don’t come over. I said okay and we hung up.

    I’m annoyed, because I get the feeling he is trying to downgrade our “relationship” (in quotes because yeah its not technically one). He’s mad that I had casual sex with another guy so he’s trying to see if I will tolerate that from HIM. I’m not going to, because it would make me feel bad. I love him too much for that. I feel empowered that I didn’t back down or agree to it just to see him.

    I don’t want just casual sex with him. I really would be much happier with some kind of a commitment. Maybe I want monogamy after all. I don’t know. I am confused.

    I kind of want to do something special for myself today, to take my mind off of him. Maybe I should treat myself to a movie, but I’m kind of broke at the moment, lol. I may just clean house…ugh.

  135.  #135Liquid Light on January 25, 2015 at 10:23 am

    Speaking of deciding if a man is right for us…I’ve had 3 dates with someone, last night was the third date. Dinner and a movie. The first date was over a month during the holidays, then we didn’t see each other again until last week. Anyway, I haven’t really been taking him seriously as I possible “contender”. He nice and all but he doesn’t make my heart jump when I see him, and he’s not on my mind much when he’s not around. He’s a really nice guy though and treats me really well. He seems to like me a lot and kinda looks at me with the puppy dog eyes. And he’s very affectionate and likes holding hands. He held my hand or had his hand on my knee during the whole movie. It was nice as I like to be touched especially because I haven’t had much physical affection since the end of my last relationship which was over 2 years ago. The other nice thing is that he’s not pressuring me at all for sex. Its such a relief to be able to relax and not feel like I’m in a power struggle with a man about this. So I dunno, now I’m starting to wonder if there’s more to him than I thought and maybe I should consider him more seriously. I’m not not attracted to him but I’m not crazy attracted to him either. Which is usually the way I like to feel in the beginning. I was thinking about separated guy on my date last night and how crazy attracted I was to him and it made me feel sad. Like I would have to let that feeling go to be with the Mayor.

  136.  #136Liquid Light on January 25, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Lovergirl, I love reading about you and your guy and all of your adventures. I hope you don’t take it the wrong way, but its very entertaining and I feel like you’ve got a great attitude about it all. I really appreciate your honesty and vulnerability here in sharing your situation and your feelings about it. I agree with Indigo, you do sound like the ultimate “cool girl”. 🙂

  137.  #137Lovergirl on January 25, 2015 at 11:02 am

    Liquid Light-

    Thank you and I don’t mind. 😉 I texted him a bit after we hung up and said simply “It would feel bad to be used just for sex by someone I actually care about and have feelings for” which is the truth. It seems like, from my experience regarding the way men think, that they don’t see it this way. It’s more, well HE gets casual sex and that’s not fair! How come I have to work for it and the other guy doesn’t?? :p

    I shouldn’t be worried about how HE feels though, right? 😉 I feel better not agreeing to it. When he invests in me, it feels good. So I guess he has to make the choice as to whether or not I am worth it.

    Your situation with your new guy, doesn’t sound so bad. At least you are open to the possibility of it turning into something more. In the meantime you get nice dates without pressure. 🙂

  138.  #138Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 11:25 am

    April Rose… #125
    Thank you for your honesty, darling Siren…
    I love it!!!
    I certainly agree… I am with you here…

    I came to the conclusion a few months ago that
    I CAN NOT accept Spirit “just the way he is” and have been working on untangling my heart…
    NO i am NOT waiting for him to change…
    I believe he is fine just like he is…
    BUT NOT for ME!!! :-))

    However… it is true the more i keep seeing him…
    which this past Wed. was the first time in a month and a half…
    I explained to him then… that I want a man who has more of the same beliefs as me… He knows i’m dating…
    maybe it’s just a booty call, now for me (maybe him too) but it doesn’t feel icky to me right now
    and I HAD gotten the icky feeling from my bf of 2 years at the end…

    Still… It is great practice for me on many levels…
    I keep getting stuck in the 2-3 month practice
    and now I’m negotiating different things on the 6 month dating…
    it IS Terribly complicated..

    I DO agree with staying strong and sharing what it is I am REALLY wanting for my Mr. Right…
    Maybe that is my practice now…
    I am dating 3 other guys so more chance for other practicing…

  139.  #139Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 11:28 am

    April Rose,
    I do like alot of what Adam Gilad says!!

  140.  #140Gemini Goddess on January 25, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Azure Blu 123

    Thank you! I agree about the emotional intimacy muscles and oddly, I’m kind of savoring (?) this slightly irritable and “prickly” feeling (great word). It feels powerful to me for some reason. It’s natural leaning back(?), the opposite of strategizing, almost feels like a break from forward thinking, and trying to AVOID forward thinking. It feels great to recognize the prickly feelings and NOT being hypnotized into reacting. Also feels like tolerating discomfort, like in your conversation with the CD when you just allowed the silence (SO impressive). Tough, but awesome feeling!


  141.  #141Gemini Goddess on January 25, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    April Rose 126

    “I wish for us that we lose the fear of hurting a man’s feelings. And that we increase our confidence that we CAN have what we want. And we quieten the part of us that tiptoes around ANY particular man.”

    Love this. I’m really aiming for this. Sometimes I almost can’t “hear” what is that I want for the concern over “his” feelings, whoever “he” is at the time.

  142.  #142Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    GG #140
    YES!!! It is the same thing… it feels so good to be growing and changing in good ways…
    and we’re savoring the uncomfortableness of it ALLLLL!!!

    You are sooo right… the hypnotizing into reacting!!! I love this!!
    “recognize the prickly feelings and NOT being hypnotized into reacting”

  143.  #143Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 12:33 pm

    GG #141 & AR
    YES!!! to NOT quieten my heart and what she yearns for!!!!
    “And we quieten the part of us that tiptoes around ANY particular man.”

  144.  #144Labbit on January 25, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    April Rose — I’m feeling fascinated by your comments! It feels like you are experimenting with your strength and confidence — or maybe it’s already there for you? I love it!

    From your comment 125: “This concept of warming and opening a man who is not already showing up as the man we want, feels a little ‘off’ to me.
    It kind of smells like ‘fixing’ him.”

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but the way I read this I completely disagree. There’s only two states for a person: open or closed off. I can’t be open some of the time…I’m either open all the time or I’m closed off.

    The men we often feel the most sparks for initially are mainly just chemical attraction. I’ve found it takes a lot longer for me to start feeling anything for a legitimate relationship-potential man. When I first meet a guy it takes me awhile to loosen up, even if I’m being open. I trust myself but it takes some time to build a comfort level…so as I change naturally and get more comfortable I find men often will follow my lead and relax into their most natural state too.

    So with that said I choose to be open with every man. My heart open that is. He may not be the right man for me, I may choose to back away from him or lean way back, but by staying open it is always my choice. If I’m closed off he’ll never feel safe with me…never open up to me…our relationship will never grow from the superficial stages. I’m not emotionally invested yet but my heart is surely open.

    Weirdly, I feel way more protected with my heart OPEN than I ever did with it closed. I don’t see it as fixing at all. I’m not asking him to change or do anything. I am simply presenting my most authentic self and observing. If I like what I feel when I’m with him at my most authentic and open, I let him get closer. If I don’t like it I lean further back and see what he does then.

    In the past I know one of my biggest mistakes was impatience. Trying to get a man to invest in me or commit to me after only a month or two when the truth was we needed way more time to get to know each other. I would rather keep several men in the casual dating pool, even men I’m unsure about, and let time unfold and see what develops over a few months or maybe even several.

  145.  #145Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    I do agree with this…
    “I’m not asking him to change or do anything.
    I am simply presenting my most authentic self
    and observing.
    If I like what I feel when I’m with him
    at my most authentic and open,
    I let him get closer.
    If I don’t like it
    I lean further back and see what he does then. “

  146.  #146April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 1:17 pm


    Thank you for your beautiful perspective.

    I wrote about ‘opening’ a man in the context of wanting something different to what he is showing himself to be.

    In my own case I spent many times being open myself and allowing EM to open up with me, IN THE HOPE that he would relax some of his racist views.

    Of course I too believe in being open, soft and feminine around every man.

    My struggle is with deciding which men to keep around. I choose to believe my heart is a sacred place and I no longer want to invite racists, homophobes or religious bigots in there. In such cases I believe that closing to these ‘options’ is healthy.

    Closing the door to what I know I don’t want – surely that opens the door to allowing what I DO want, to come closer…..

  147.  #147April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    There are so many wonderful men in the world who are not bigoted.

    It is clear to me. I want those men to come towards me.

  148.  #148Azure Blu on January 25, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    I agree… I want those men to come toward me also..
    However… the three i am now dating are variations of conservative… maybe not as extreme as Spirit
    Men tend to be more conservative it seems…

  149.  #149April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    I love the feeling of being in the company of a man whose view of humanity is expansive. It feels like there is a soft warm breeze flowing around us. His quiet celebration of life enthuses my own and I feel like my best self in his company….

  150.  #150Violet on January 25, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    Hello everyone…

    I got off the dating site I was on. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten on and off that site. It’s like the definition of insanity… doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

    I had previously commented on how a ‘first’ meeting didn’t seem to go beyond that. That hasn’t ALWAYS been the case. It does seem to feel like the ‘majority’ rather than the ‘minority’, however.
    I’ve been asked to give an example of a first meeting so here goes. The man and I hit it right off the bat via the dating site, in emails, then moved to phone texts, and a few conversations lasting more than an hour.
    We met at a restaurant. The minute I met him; I KNEW there wasn’t a ‘connection.’ I did most of the talking and felt like I was put in a position of doing just that.
    We parted amicably and I got an email confirming ‘no connection.’

    Another experience was meeting the man at a play. (not the most conducive place for conversation). However; he did ask me out to dinner the next evening. I said, ”I’m not interested.” One of the issues with dating sites is people presenting photos that don’t match up to how they currently appear.
    Such was the case this time in that he had gained a lot of weight. I couldn’t see any resemblance and felt he had misrepresented himself in that area.
    It’s time to start a clean slate.

    Thank you for reading this, for your advice, and for your feedback, Violet

  151.  #151Violet on January 25, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Hello Everyone… I feel like I want to define what a clean slate means to me.

    I’m going to stop trying to force something to happen in regards to finding a man, being a siren, etc..
    Yes; I want a relationship and believe that will happen when the time is right.

    Until that happens; my focus will be on reading the bible, praying, journaling, etc…

  152.  #152Gear on January 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Azure 124,

    It feels so warm to hear your comment. I feel affirmed and encouraged, feeling the support,and that somebody is here for me….

    I am going out of the country for vacation this weekend, thus I have deactivated all my online profiles. I also work with one of the coaches to rewrite it. Hope when I come back, it will be a new face.

    Hope all the beautiful sirens enjoy your journey, just as I enjoy mine, I constantly remind myself to be patient patient, when I don’t see results…


  153.  #153Beloved on January 25, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    Oh, geez, it just suddenly occurred to me, a I’m listening to the guys play pool downstairs, that I live in a bachelor pad, with a guy, who has a ton of male friends who come over, hang out, and be guy-ish. I don’t feel like I can just lounge around comfortably at home in my sweatpants now…
    I want to go down to the kitchen and make dinner with no makeup and in barefeet and okay if I was not fat, I probably wouldn’t care at all about that. Something about being fat makes it Not Okay to do that in front of me.

    This move is really bringing up stufffffff….

  154.  #154Beloved on January 25, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    * in front of men.

  155.  #155April Rose on January 25, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    Oh Beloved,

    I know it is your home and you want to slouch and switch off at times. AND, you get to practice feeling like a goddess in front of all those men at any hour of the day…..
    I would think of it as a practice in living with a man. Your man. Only there are lots of clones around. Just pretend that every single one of them adores you!!!

  156.  #156Femininewoman on January 25, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    Lovergirl I feel like elaborating a bit. The guy who you said you see as a friend occasionally and have sex with is what I was referring to. I just think it would be great if you look at how you allow him in and out of your life occasionally and he knows he can show up like that without doing anything to earn your warm body and bed. Yet he can get to sleep with you. Even if you are polyamorous I imagine that people who live that lifestyle have some boundaries around who they sleep with and the frequency of the contact. Even if only for health reasons because when time passes especially extensive periods your really have no idea who else he is sleeping with our what they are doing. Maybe I am reading too much into your comments but I don’t see where you suggest diligence in protecting your health.

  157.  #157Femininewoman on January 25, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    April Rose you sound like such a goddess

  158.  #158Emerson on January 25, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Thank you April Rose

  159.  #159Lovergirl on January 25, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    @ Femininewoman 156-

    He wears a condom, so I’m satisfied with that. We also keep in regular contact over text, and I ask his advice on a lot of my man issues. I don’t really consider myself polyamorous, since I don’t think I could be in love with more than one man at once, but all of us (the guy I like, the man that came to visit, and I) have done some swinging. So we are probably more okay with casual sex than a lot of people.

    Still, we are human and our emotions can get in the way. I’m not so threatened when my guy has sex with anyone in a swinger context. It’s more if he were to go out on dates or invest in someone else the way he does with me. Most times if he sleeps with another woman, she is married and her husband is right there, lol.

  160.  #160Lovergirl on January 25, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    I am feeling happy and comforted. 🙂 I saw my guy today, even though we almost didn’t. We got into a bit of a petty argument over texting and calls. It was really kind of silly and immature.

    I was mad at him for wanting “just” casual sex with me, and he was mad at me for NOT wanting that, since he said I was willing to do that with the other guy. :p So he said he was trying to find a chick who wouldn’t give him drama about being “used”, to sleep with today. I said fine I wanted to spend time with a guy who thought I was worth more and that I’m sure I’d have no trouble finding someone to take me out.

    He got mad, but he calmed down and apologized when I pointed out that his statement about looking for another woman was inflammatory (he started it! lol). Anyway, he asked me to come over and help him figure out how to input his bank statements into Quicken (for his business).

    He said we wouldn’t have sex, that he’d already gotten himself off today. (We are such a mess, lol) I was like whatever, I don’t care today, and fine. So I came over and helped him (he paid me for that part).

    We ended up watching tv together, talking a little bit about his feelings about me being with the other guy, and having sex. The sex was EXTRA emotional and he was really sweet and affectionate after. He just texted me a little bit ago and said he felt “comforted” being with me today. Awwww…

    He was still being a little stubborn about feeling like I let the other guy have casual sex, but not him. He offered to take me to get something to eat but it was like fast food pasta. We ended up not going and I caved in to making him grilled ham and cheese sandwiches when he asked. Eyeroll…lol But I think it made him feel better and I felt better because he spent more time with me, cuddling up on the couch and being sweet. We were giving each other back rubs and stuff, so it wasn’t totally me giving, and he did the dishes.

    I could tell he had hurt feelings about me saying I felt “used”. He prides himself on being the guy that treats me well. He made some “you are treated sooo badly when you come over here” sarcastic comments. Anyway, I do feel better now, and “comforted” :).

  161.  #161Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 12:01 am

    I think there is something from the animal kingdom which makes men want to have s. with you immediately after they get to suspect that you have had s. with another man.
    Whereas women I think will be repulsed if they think their man just did it with someone else.

  162.  #162Lovergirl on January 26, 2015 at 12:25 am

    Yeah, I’ve read about the sperm competition theory. I’ve also heard guys say that when they first hear of a woman they care about sleeping with someone else it repulses them…but then I guess they get to thinking about it and it drives them to want to sleep with her more. Its an interesting phenomenon. It’s like its more about having to outdo the other guy than anything. I noticed my guy went over and above with sexual stuff today too. I think he didn’t want anyone to be doing a better job than him. 😉

  163.  #163Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 12:38 am

    I have witnessed it with men in my life who were suspecting that I had been with someone else (which was not true, by the way!) – they become oversexual all of a sudden, for no other reason.
    Otherwise, I do not think I would have the guts to tell the man I have feelings for, that I just had casual s. with someone else. I think that would make me too vulnerable. I see the discussion here tends to support the view that we should be so authentic to be able to say that to the man … but I feel very icky considering sharing such information.

  164.  #164Indigo on January 26, 2015 at 6:21 am

    I am hectically into my leaning back, resisting all the old urges to initiate and overfunction, and I can’t even tell you how angry and restless I feel. Is this normal? When you start to undo old patterns that aren’t working that you start to feel an insane amount of pent-up energy bubbling up?

    Today when I was at work I felt huge need to go for a run or do an aerobics dance class just to work off the pent up extra energy. My normally beautiful relaxed afternoon when I came home from work now feels long and restless. I am going to go for a long walk a little later when the weather cools down but I can hardly wait till then. Can any of the other Sirens relate to this? Coaches? Is it normal to feel this itchy, restless, bored, excess of energy feeling when you enter into a deeper level of leaning back?

  165.  #165Indigo on January 26, 2015 at 6:24 am

    I’ve never been hooked on drugs or alcohol or anything of that sort, but I imagine this is a bit like what withdrawal must feel like, lol. I can really see it’s what I need to do so I’m not even questioning that, but can anyone else relate?

  166.  #166Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 6:59 am

    Yes, yes, and yes.
    This is exactly what I went through. And, you need heavy cardio. A walk will not be sufficient, you practially need to burn out the energy. For me, what works is running, cycling, swimming, aerobic, or just dancing to my favorire music at home (I love Spotify! ).
    The good news is, it will just be a phase. It seems long, but in reality it is not. I am feeling SO INCREDIBLY WELL now that I learnt to properly lean back. I might relapse eventually, but for the last two-three weeks, I am the queen of the world!

  167.  #167Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 7:02 am

    By the way, I used to be a smoker, and giving up smoking feels equally annoying. So yes, this is what getting rid of an addiction feels like! I am sending you love and hugs. By the way, having s. also helps, but cardio is really the best thing!

  168.  #168Indigo on January 26, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Yay, Victoria!

    I feel so happy you can identify! And I feel so happy you said this phase will pass! I am not a runner by any means, I don’t even enjoy it, and yet yesterday when I was out on my walk I just started running spontaneously without even thinking about it with the need to burn off the extra energy. Thank you, and I will get out my old turbo jam video!

  169.  #169Indigo on January 26, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Oh yes, well sex would definitely be great to burn off some of this energy! But I am not falling into old bad habits to get it! Thank you for the love and hugs!

  170.  #170Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 7:17 am

    You do not need to run fast, even slow/moderate running will count as cardio if you do it for more than 40 minutes, the idea is to get your heart rate up and SWEAT. I usually run for time (not for speed) – I target to run 40-50 minutes. I prefer outside, but in January here it is very cold, so I go to the gym.
    I understand you are not a runner (very few women are) but this really works, not only for leaning back pains but for whenerver you have something that bothers you. During running (or any cardio) your brain produces endorphines – the best natural painkiller and mood booster. Mind you, I had terrible toothake for 10 days after I had a tooth extracted, I took all kinds of painkillers, but the only hours in the day when I felt fine, were my hours at the gym! (ok, the times I had s. were pretty cool too 🙂

  171.  #171Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 7:31 am

    Last but not least, you will come out of this stronger on in the inside, softer on the outside! You will have learnt to recognize the boredom/anxiety, you will have learnt how to pat yourself on the back for recognizing that, you will have worked out through a set of activities that work for you to impove your mood, and you will find yourself having re-vigorated some of the social contacts with friends you were kind of abandoning for a long time. Leaning back for a man not only works, it rocks!

  172.  #172Andrea on January 26, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Yes Indigo, I’ll put in a “me too” here.

    The whole leaning back thing has me so curious, interested, and investigative. Since I am no longer sending my energy out toward men, trying to get them to notice me, or friends, trying to get them to include me, or family, trying to get them to validate my “role”, or co-workers, trying to please them, or strangers, trying to get them to like me…. etc etc

    I am focusing on myself and wow… layers and layers of intrigue. I’m actually a very interesting and fascinating woman. Who knew?

    Well, I’ve discovered how much I just love to laugh. I feel my highest supreme self when I can feel that genuine, authentic laughter rolling up from belly and toppling out my throat out into the world around me.

    I have been thinking up all these funny things, jokes to play on people, funny things to do, say…

    I don’t know… I’ve always been so serious about life and about failure. Now my inner soul mate is this humorous and wonderfully entertaining companion.

    So I guess I’ve been using this extra energy to discover my self.

  173.  #173Andrea on January 26, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Siren Song: More on the Lean Back : )

    I took myself out on Saturday night. There was a live band I was excited to see. I know the lead singer and have followed his band since inception. So, I feel included in the crowd when he plays.

    Anyway, I kept an extremely conscious vigilance on my leaning back energy. I even practiced standing with one foot behind and the other and physically leaning back. I was aware of those around me.

    Usually I see someone that I know and I go running up to them and “Hello hello, how are you doing?” And hug hug.

    This night, I did that one time, to a woman friend of mine, and I was so aware of how I felt about it. Yes, she was happy to see me, invited me to come and dance with her and her friends, gave me a hug. But I felt… puppy doggy.. I felt… leaning forward… I felt… chasey. Even to a woman friend, I did not like feeling that way.

    So instead I sat back and enjoyed the show and tried to really stay present in my enjoyment.

    And then who should walk right past me but Cowboy Ed. A man that was on my CD list about a year and a half ago. I’ve written about him on here. Cowboy Ed owns a ranch about forty minutes out of my town. He fell off my CD list when I realized how much work I was putting into just being with him.
    My thought back then was that he was soooooo boring in his routine and his conversation, that I always had to plan the dates out, I had to do all the talking during our conversations, I had to do all the work. It was exhausting. Then again, I was way too scared to let him do anything because I was afraid of what he’d come up with, and I was afraid to just sit in the silence with him.

    Last person I would ever expect to see and I felt a jolt of… leaning forward.. “Hey? How are you?” type energy.

    But I just stayed in my seat, and of course, he turned around and saw me and came up to me and started talking to me. We caught up a little bit and had a good conversation. Then it ended. The conversation was over. We were quiet. The band kept playing. Cowboy Ed kept standing next to my seat.

    I felt that scary, pulsing urge to say something, do something, offer him to sit next to me at my table, or something. But no. NO. I just stayed quiet.

    I didn’t want him to join me anyway, but I didn’t necessarily feel like I wanted him to leave either. So I said, did, nothing. Tried to stay in my enjoyment of the band.

    Finally he yawned and told me he better get to driving back home, had to check on his dog, etc. Then he leaned in to hug me. Okay. Then he stood there much longer. Leaned in and gave me another hug. Then he asked, “Do you think I could call you again?”

    I thought about it. I said yes. i gave him my number. He hugged me again. He asked me if I’d want to go and see a certain movie with him this coming week. I told him honestly, “No, that’s not a movie that I’d be interested in seeing.” I told him why and invited him to ask me out to something else sometime.

    He laughed and said he would call me on Wednesday.

    I feel really good results. Feeling my feelings in the present moment. Acting in honesty. Trying hard to assuage and hug up on that inner anxiety that causes me to Do something to Make something happen. Just relaxing into allowing the world to unfold around me and then responding from What Really Is, rather than to trying to change things to fit what I think they should be.

  174.  #174Lovergirl on January 26, 2015 at 8:27 am

    @163 Victoria-

    It IS difficult to share that information with a guy I have feelings for. It’s scary. I am relieved that he is saying he doesn’t want to know anymore. I feel safer and better not telling him. Even though we have been to swinger parties together in the past, I never did anything with other men, just him.

    It’s hard, because any time I can’t meet up with him because I have “other plans” I know his first thoughts are going to be that I am sleeping with another man (whether I actually am or not). I mean a lot of guys probably think that way anyway, lol, and maybe that is what motivates them to want to lock you down into a relationship, but it still feels risky.

    I think that oversexual part, after they know/suspect you have been with another guy, is part of claiming their territory. I guess that is ultimately what I want from him, to be “claimed” in a relationship sense. He was being more possessive in bed last night for sure, with “you are mine” type comments.

  175.  #175Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Indigo 164 and Victoria 171,

    Agree with you both. Restless and angry? yes. Luckily we have this group support to help us process difficult feelings. In addition to exercise this is another one of the tools we can use to help ourselves.

    Another one I used is meditation practice. They started a new group last fall and even though MusicTd used it to harrass me at times I found it very helpful. He would play dissonant music on the organ during the beginnings of our sessions.
    There are now studies to support that these practices maintain our telomere length which promotes life giving health.

    Another one I found a lot like meditation is breath retraining exercises. These can be a form of meditation and changes the brain body biochemistry and signals different expressions of the same genes as epigentics.

    I’ve been doing this since October 2014. This weekend (end Jan) I finally put all into archives. This past week I had to see and hear all the media attention with interviews, ads, pictures in the mail. Even though I know I have had to leave the situation
    it is still mildly triggering. It is hard to get it to neutral. I think the last (hopefully) issue I needed to confront is done as well.

    I still go back to the Rabbi’s comment about the “inept, insecure man dousing the embers of her sexuallity”. I found a picture of his ex in one of the interviews. She was dressed in black baggy pants, a black squared off jacket and a white blouse with one of those big saggy looking ties like they wore in the 80s. The familiarity of that look struck home to me. She was doused all right. It spoke volumes to me.

  176.  #176Lovergirl on January 26, 2015 at 8:33 am

    @ Indigo-

    Leaning back is so hard when you really want to contact him! I feel so tense and anxious. I know I have slipped up already at times when I shouldn’t have. So I applaud you for focusing on things like cardio. I’m going to keep that in mind the next time (and I know there will be next times) that he is pulling away.

    I used to work out every day, and I have gotten out of the habit. I personally loved doing things like Zumba or pole dance classes because they were fun and there was variety to what we were doing, plus there were other women to talk to and that helps keep my mind off other things.

  177.  #177Lovergirl on January 26, 2015 at 8:39 am

    @172 Andrea-

    What a nice post! I feel encouraged to get to know myself better and indulge in a little more me time. I was going to take myself to a movie yesterday, and then ended up going to see my guy instead. I almost turned him down and kept the movie date with myself, lol, but I didn’t go there. I still want to actually go out and do that though. I think it would feel good. 🙂

  178.  #178Lovergirl on January 26, 2015 at 8:42 am

    @173 Andrea-

    Wow, you did a great job with leaning back and it sounds like you had some good results with Cowboy Ed. 🙂 What a nice way to practice. Maybe he will surprise you? Who knows. 🙂

  179.  #179Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Oh yes, instead of thinking about the recital he gave at the art museum this weekend I found two other interesting music venues to go to and I really enjoyed the new community I am beoming acquainted with.

    I even practiced ” The Look” just for fun on someone and tried to remember feeling messages. I smiled at all the little babies and was amply rewarded with this ray of sunshine feeling I get when I do that. I feel like I’m in recovery now.

  180.  #180lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 10:19 am


    congrats to you…

    i know how hard it is to dis-entwine psychically from someone we have made such intimate fantasies with…

    at least thats my take on what i did with someone for 3 years until i ‘crushed’ it…i still now and then think of him and it sends chills sometimes thro me…in good and not so good ways…

    i completely left a social community not to see him….

    i am getting stronger…and ready in a while to go back there…a stronger more sireny me…i look forward to that…

    lots of work going on internally in me…lots of transformative work that is taking time and patience…

    so again sending lots of kudos and appreciation to you on the path you are making ….and doing so well…even if there are some backsteps [thinking of myself really here ….lol]

  181.  #181Karol on January 26, 2015 at 10:43 am

    Need help Girls.

    I am married. 2yr relantioship. He changed. He is now angry with me for little things. He is getting too close with a work girlfriend.
    I asked if he really want to stay in a relationship. He said yes, this is just a bad fase, according to him. I don’t know. I am confusing. I could breakup, but I rather go to the 3dr way like Rori.

    So I decided to start CD.

    I need suggestions. I don’t know where to start. I lost my mojo.

    Please help.


  182.  #182Azure Blu on January 26, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Indigo.. YES, I too know those restless, yearning, addiction feelings that overcome me when I know to stay away from my man…
    AND i do my HIITS (high intensity, interval, training) workouts that Do help me Soooo much!!

    Many times I don’t sleep…
    staying on the couch and watching TV…
    alll night
    dozing off but mainly just wasting away a perfectly good night to sleep…
    I have learned to be patient and compassionate with myself
    It’s ok,Azure Blu… this is how YOU cope with missing him… I am here for you and I will NOT abandon you and this sleeplessness will pass…

    “I understand YOU been runnin’ from the man
    that goes by the name of the “Sandman”

  183.  #183Azure Blu on January 26, 2015 at 10:48 am

    You are a ROCKIN Siren!!! WOW!!!
    I am inspired by your leaning back
    and taking such Awesome care of
    Huggs, darling lady!!!

  184.  #184Lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 11:14 am

    Thank you always for your sharing so honestly.
    When I feel of you. I see a role mode
    Yes You!

  185.  #185lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 11:30 am

    hello azure

    i sent a comment by cell phone but alas….not here…

    so risking repeating myself and of course it bears repeating!

    i am always warmed and inspired with which you share your feelings and process…thank you!

    you are a role model for me

    Yes YOU!

    so happy you are cding….and of course there are men coming towards you!

    and i so appreciate you are taking your process with spirit cd step by step….i feel that you have dis-entangled even if still involved…it just feels different to me when i read about it from you here……xoxo

  186.  #186Azure Blu on January 26, 2015 at 11:42 am

    {{{{lovetodance. #184}}}}
    Ohhh… lovely, warm Siren..
    I feel so cared for when I read your comments…
    thank you, thank you,,,

    It feels good to hear that you can since a difference
    when you are reading about me and Spirit…
    He is such GOOD practice for me…
    opening my heart, sharing my authentic self with someone I feel chemistry with…
    Sooo Exciting!
    And at the same time letting go a little at a time…
    When I share my feelings He does step up…
    Great free therapy! :->

    How are things with you and online dating?

  187.  #187Femininewoman on January 26, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Andrea I love it. A guy called a while ago and he did said something I normally say and I bursted out into so much giggles and told him I feel tickled and giggly. He said can you imagine if I was there actually tickling you. I don’t know where this came from but I said “You touched to the G-spot in my brain. You know the brain is the largest erogenous spot”. He ended up almost dying with laughter too, not wanting to get off the phone.

    Life can be so different when we start falling in love with ourselves.

  188.  #188Gemini Goddess on January 26, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    Lovetodance 180

    “lots of work going on internally in me…lots of transformative work that is taking time and patience…”

    Yay!!!! So exciting and confusing and exciting. Is this something you’ve been working on for awhile coming to fruition, and/or a result of working with a coach?

  189.  #189Gemini Goddess on January 26, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Cutie 79

    That was great stuff on the other thread. Thanks for sharing. I’ve so been there and will save those posts out for later. I LOVED the Kristi Kay use of “embarrassed” rather than defensive, and have actually applied it in reverse. When D is acting what I read as “defensive”, I’m translating it to “embarrassed”… to myself. I find it much less triggering to think of it that way.

  190.  #190Gemini Goddess on January 26, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    I am fighting the “lash-outs” right now. SO difficult. 🙁 Listened to “Reconnect” again, and trying to chose the “good feeling” options rather than actively seeking out, and blow up some problem to take a swing at. Ugh. Poor guy (my guy). He couldn’t be trying any harder. I’m also applying a reverse “I’m just a girl”, as in “He’s just a guy…doing his best.” I feel so confused and frustrated with myself right now. I am trying so hard to avoid relationship sabotaging tendencies. Wish me luck.

  191.  #191lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    185 azure

    yes, great practice….and you are cding with others….maybe seeing how far your heart can expand…maybe anothers/others will. whom you feel that delicious chemistry with…show up firmly on your island and you will get to practice loving more…opening your heart to another[s] who are more aligned with you….

    just saying ….cuz i so want you to have the right man for you …delicious siren….who deserves the best!…

    i am inspired how you are learning, how you are becoming more vunerable and leaning into the times where you can handle more intimacy as compared to pushing away….

    this is so much of my work…and i just know i don’t want to open to men who i don’t want to open to….
    and i know how to be warm and inviting…i just don’t want to ‘string men along’…if you know what i mean

    the fine line between cding for practice, cding for ego gratification, cding because it feels best to be warm and open….prolly thinking way too much eh? but these questions do come up for me….

    as to online dating


    i am in the midst of house cleaning….my own internal house…..
    i have been cleansing for the last almost 3 weeks….eating such nutrient healthy foods for me….i am in process…losing some weight and skin looking better…this is foundational for me….if i don’t feel confident in how i look to myself…the last thing i want to do is put myself out there like that….

    it is starting to shift …i am giving myself time….
    you will so hear from me when i do go online again…all the sirens will prolly get tired of my tiny, itsey bitsey what should i say, do here….lol….i am looking forward to it again tho….

  192.  #192lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    187 gemini goddess…

    hello thanks for asking! i love you turning i am just a girl…to he is just a guy….he’s doing his best…and i applaud you for staying with the practice of not lashing out…

    not reacting is such a high art…i have to stay vigilant all the time…and sometimes i just go soooo un-conscious!

    about what you asked me….

    i would say yes to these questions…some-things i have been working on forever, and yes i am working with a coach, Kristi KAy who i highly recommend…

    i am also tidying up internally by doing a moderate cleanse…thats always is so powerful for me…to feel aligned with what i take in…it is the most real way for me to love myself.

    working with kristi….the right person at the right time…i don’t know about you, but i can just be on auto pilot for so long….feeling like ‘ oh i know that already’ or ‘been there done that’ or ‘i got this’…ect etc etc…
    and the reality is that my thoughts and feelings can get so buried…even if at one point they were explored…

    so to have someone like Kristi who so expertly is asking and guiding towards already seemingly dealt with stuff …to have her present in fresh and powerful ways….is really helping….i am un-earthing again stuff i thought i had resolved and taken care of…

    well…there is always new layers, like aeorating the earth for spring planting….

    so yes, the metaphor for spring…as we still are in winter but transitioning…is working well for me…new growth underground….lots of energy intensive gestating underground work….

  193.  #193Lotus on January 26, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    Labbit 146

    I’m fascinated by how you pen your experiences…
    ‘Weirdly, I feel way more protected with my heart OPEN than I ever did with it closed. I don’t see it as fixing at all. I’m not asking him to change or do anything. I am simply presenting my most authentic self and observing. If I like what I feel when I’m with him at my most authentic and open, I let him get closer. If I don’t like it I lean further back and see what he does then.’

    I will try to remember this, although I notice I sometimes hover between open and soft, and guarded/on edge.. like a camera lens opening and closing. I feel a little uneasy when I get asked questions… guess I’m used to being a bit aloof!

    I’ve been feeling contemplative and have pulled back quite a bit from dating and online messaging.. seems like i’ve reached an impasse. I’ve been feeling stuck… feels like black or white – I don’t want to take my H as he is, there’s no going back and I am struggling with the finality of divorce, and going through with this.

    I feel so bored of my tears… My H has asked to see me, and says we need to decide what we’re doing, and he’s right. Feels like we’re bobbing in an ocean, or well, I left the ocean a long time ago and have been making tracks. Indecision is a danger in itself, I feel like I’m walking a tightrope.. I don’t want either option. We’re going to meet tomorrow…

    This evening I came across our honeymoon photos, and I found some lovely ones of us looking happy and close… floods of tears again, and weirdly my mac told me to shut it down! Saved by my computer so I could switch my energy! I’ve had enough of the anguish, sadness… which comes in pangs. I was feeling nostalgic, mourning the past. It didn’t help i saw photos of my mum 10 years ago, before she passed away.. and oddly it’s her 10yr anniversary this Sunday. There seems to be a theme of letting go..

    I choose to live in the now. But it’s so so hard to let go. I have this little doubt… Yet he would have to change so much for me to even want to date him again.

    Hopefully I’ll be clearer tomorrow when I see him. I want to ask him if he were to change, what would he do… he promised to change before when he realised he was losing me. I want to hear his ideas. I can’t wait for what may be many years, when I could be in a better relationship… and be happy.

    I went to see my Catholic priest who said he would help me get an annulment, but first I’d have to get a divorce. He said to think and pray for my decision, as divorce is forever. If in doubt to give my H a last chance, but he has to change. I felt supported and heard by the priest, was expecting some kind of condemnation instead. Although I didn’t reveal that I’ve been dating, I wonder if that would complicate the annulment. I know H wants to step up, yet how I can trust that a man wont cheat again when he’s done it before. I wouldn’t even date a man who’s had an affair before, I think it shows their emotional weakness.

    I hope this will end and I will stop going round in circles. My heart feels so heavy… I need to find something light or exhilarating and fun to do after tomorrow’s meeting.. not sure what though…

  194.  #194Gemini Goddess on January 26, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    And now I’m just blog hogging. I don’t know what to do.

    Monday is always a see-each-other night. My kids are always with their father. D and I always do something (go out or cook in) and then stay it his house. It’s big and beautiful, gorgeous view, outdoor hot-tub, great kitchen, etc. He wants me to move my things into the many drawers he’s cleaned and cleared out for me in the bedroom and bathroom, and that would be SOOO SOOO easy. (I currently have just one clothing drawer and one toiletries drawer and actively limit it to that). I could just basically live there on my non-custody days, and this is exactly what he wants.

    I have a two bedroom townhouse, kids’ share a room. I really love decorating, and it’s clean for having two kids, but it’s definitely not in the same objective league as his place.

    Basically, I LOVE staying at his place, but I don’t want to make it to EASY for him, but this FEELS like strategizing/trying to manage.

    I WANT the whole thing. Marriage, all of us living together, and me having full decorating permission. That is what I want.

    So I’m in a weird feeling situation. I think I’m going to tell him it would feel good to spend the night at MY place tonight. I guess this is leaning back in action(?), but it isn’t really true and like I said, feels like leaning forward/trying to maneuver.

    What I WANT to do and what I SHOULD do aren’t reconciling. What do I do with that? Plus, this gap in tax bracket is sort of tender territory for me.

  195.  #195Dixie on January 26, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    Oh Sirens!
    I’m loving the discussions from yesterday and today!

    There is so much excitement bubbling up, just from reading all the lovely comments and insights.

    Andrea, 173 – woohoo for you! Oh my goodness, you are the Queen of the Lean Back! Yes, yes, your experience reminded me of my travels alone, and how I was never afraid to just explore a new place, a new space, on my own, and just relish Being There. Your post reminded me of my own inner free spirit, who I suspect, has been hemmed in of late… I’ve been dying to go to Boston this March to be part of this fitness thing called the November Project. Anyhow, the point is that after reading your post, I just remembered how much fun I have exploring new places by myself! Now I am sooo excited to go and explore….

  196.  #196Lotus on January 26, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    lovetodance 190 – this feels like a soft fluffy glowy blanket
    ‘yes, great practice….and you are cding with others….maybe seeing how far your heart can expand…maybe anothers/others will. whom you feel that delicious chemistry with…show up firmly on your island and you will get to practice loving more…opening your heart to another[s] who are more aligned with you….’
    i feel i love my H for who he used to be, and the potential dream he could be, and I don’t love the man he has been for 3 years. I don’t want to change him, I want a new man, or he changes himself, yet I have the memories from before, and the dreams we never made. It’s like I’m wearing this soft familiar cloak and if I take it off… well I don’t know how I’ll feel. I know I don’t have a crystal ball..
    love this
    ‘well…there is always new layers, like aeorating the earth for spring planting….
    so yes, the metaphor for spring…as we still are in winter but transitioning…is working well for me…new growth underground….lots of energy intensive gestating underground work….’
    I feel it too.. for me the shedding of the last bits of old skin to welcome the new… feeling a bit vulnerable and sensitive again, wanting to cocoon myself a lot and retreat from online dating and guys… feeling their energies being too much, wanting to occupy my time. I need time for myself, to date myself.

  197.  #197Dixie on January 26, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Indigo – yes, yes, I understand those weird “withdrawal” symptons! For me, relief comes in the form of a loooooooooooooong run, till literally, I run the pent-up hmmm-mmm feelings out :). Seriously, I love the idea of s. helping out, but when the energy levels are sort of surging, that might be a slippery slope for me, lol. Otherwise (don’t laugh please), it’s baking. As in to feed my extended family, my neighbours, concierge, students, colleagues..
    It’s also the best time for me to pour my energy into a passion-project, so really, the “boy-energy” turns out to be a really, really productive, happy time. Maybe you have a passion project that you can thrown your energy into?

  198.  #198Dixie on January 26, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    Lotus 192, and 195.
    I wish I could throw my arms around you and just hug you. When I was going through my separation and divorce, my feeling were identical to what you described.

    You said you “[felt] a bit vulnerable and sensitive again, wanting to cocoon…and retreat from online dating and guys… feeling their energies being too much, wanting to occupy [your]time.”

    I can only speak from my experience Lotus, but I did exactly what you mentioned – allowed myself to be vulnerable, cocoon,- and wrapped myself in the support of my family and friends, even though that itself felt like too much closeness at times. After the arduous process of the separation and divorce, I just felt so emotionally spent that whatever energy I had needed -yes, needed- to be directed towards me.

    I can’t imagine being rushed through that time. I really needed the time to heal and be good to myself.

    Hugs 🙂

  199.  #199Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Karol 181,
    I’m new here too, but I’ll start with my take on this and hopefully someone with more experience can jump in.

    Somehow starting with the cd thing while married may not be the best place to start. It could be taken as payback and elevated to you date, he dates, one has s*x, other has s*x, you both fight etc., etc. you get defensive he gets defensive. Aargh, too much trouble. Rori has some neat tools. Take advantage of them.

    However, one of the best which can be used in both marriage and dating situations is the Lean Back. A good third way start is you could begin by taking excellent care of yourself. Let him take care of his own emotions for once.

    You can take luxurious baths and pamper yourself with shaving, face masks, new hair cut, make up DAILY , mani and pedi etc. The works woman, you deserve it!

    Exercise daily, attention to your diet, no more junk food, cook an excellent meal at least once a day for yourself. If he declines to join you then it’s excellent leftovers for you the next day. Don’t cook with him in mind.

    What did you put on hold when you got into this relationship? Drag it out, Dust it off, and Do it.

    Ignore all his crap. Focus on doing your own thing.

    Give him the space to access his own feelings. That’s what I did. Next……

  200.  #200Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Azure Blu 183,
    Hugs back to you too. I feel happy you are getting used to sharing feelings in a good way. I’m taking all this as some much needed lessons for me.

    Oh yes, I read a while back how you realized you were the one who needed to take responsibility for changing your family dynamics. Me too. You are the only one I’ve ever heard of besides me who has voiced this.

    My daughter and I have discussed this as she was wondering how I had such a problem growing up and she and her bro. and sis. didn’t. So I explained my thinking and she was amazed. Now that information on how epigenetics works is coming out it is easier to explain.

    Ms Siren, kudos to you. You rock too!

  201.  #201Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Are you familiar with The Lighthouse Center in/near Whitmore Lake MI? I used to go there before they first started. Fond memories.

  202.  #202lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    lotus 195

    a big hug to you….i feel you are honoring you deeply…

    cocoon is what we do when we are transforming….

    it is big work….changing identities….which is what happens when big relationships change, end, transform…

    honoring your timing is such wonderful self love…
    dance on beautiful siren…to the music that feels best to you now….

  203.  #203Dixie on January 26, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    Okay, I feel a little shy to say this Sirens, but in response to Indigo’s query (164) as to what to do with all that restless, energy from leaning back?

    Umm, the running and baking and all did help me burn off the energy, but honestly (and I’m feeling very self-conscious revealing this) but some self-love really did help soothe and release all that pent-up energy in a utterly wonderful way. Quite literally took my focus off anyone else, anything else, helped me focus my breathing and redirected all that energy towards my own pleasure.

    Not for nothing though, because reminding myself that I could do that just makes me feel extra-feminine, extra-soft, extra-powerful, all at the same time. Not a bad thing during those Lean-Back moments.
    Then, of course, back to the baking, lol.

  204.  #204lovetodance on January 26, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    so adorable…thank you for sharing …..big smile…

    everything tastes better when we have serotonin flowing!

  205.  #205Gemini Goddess on January 26, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    Dixie- Awesome 🙂

  206.  #206Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Lovetodance 180,
    Three years? Why go back? I feel curious if you’d like to comment.

    This dis-entwining for me after only 6 months feels as difficult as that after my 25 year marriage. I discovered for my own peace of mind that I needed to think deeply about these people issues as I want to tie up as many of the lose ends as I can so I don’t have to go back.

    I am so grateful to everyone who commented here on this blog. What a blessing you all are!

    Today I walked around town doing errands and walking through the fabric store and tying up loose ends (good place to do it is in the fabric store 🙂 ).

    Have I been compassionate, humane, fair to both of us. Is the sentiment I’m left with unconditional love? Have I acted diplomaticly? etc.

    I feel content I did my best to honor this impossibly beautiful human being who though covered in muck is like the rest of us, fighting a hard battle daily. I am blessed to realize that we are all impossibly beautiful beings no matter what we cover ourselves with.

    Ah well, enough all ready. 🙂

  207.  #207Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Dixie 202,

    Yeppers, that’s a good one too. I use it regularly myself.

    “not a bad thing during those lean back moments”, good! Ha!

  208.  #208Mistea1 on January 26, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    lovetodace 191,
    thanks for the reminder about the coach. It’s good to ge tsome objective input.

  209.  #209Beloved on January 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Oh, sirens…my inner guru feels so wise.
    Last night housemate’s friend came over, they were drinking beer, and being “men” talking “men” talk and started spouting some stupid crap that I felt really bad hearing.
    The first time, I turned around and went back to my room, because that’s what I wanted to do.
    The second time, I stood there and listened to the friend, feeling uncomfortable yet sort of frozen, and interested in what he was saying. I realize now I felt mostly uncomfortable with where I imagined the conversation might go, rather than what he was really saying.
    I came back to my room…felt my feelings, rehearsed some speeches in my mind, then went to bed.
    I dreamed, that I was going to visit a guru. An old wise man, wearing a robe. I approached him, he looked at me, and he told me, “What’s happened is you are “making this a problem” instead of looking at is an experience.”
    I woke up feeling like…whoa…ok. Stay present, stay on my horse. feel into gratitude for all of my feelings and the experience. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    I love my inner being, I love my dreams.
    I feel grateful.
    I love my new home so so so much.
    I feel so good here.

  210.  #210IamHis on January 26, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    so, New Guy gave me two days of space which felt AMAZING. I love space. I think I love space too much…

    Anyway, he called me tonight and we talked for two hours. Again, it was mostly listening to him, but I got a little talking in there too, which felt good. He just had a lot he needed to talk about that, that I happened to totally understand. I felt glad to listen and kinda be there for him or whatever.

    But then, when he was asking me more about myself, I let it out things that annoy me, and I kind of went on a little rant, and might have brought up questions he asked me, such as:

    “Why are you still single?”
    “How did you get to be so beautiful?”

    I was just kinda like…um…I’ve been hurt and I’m picky and what kind of question is that? Why are YOU still single?

    and then about the beautiful thing, i was like, don’t get me wrong, I love to hear it. Hearing that someone thinks I’m beautiful feels amazing, but it also kind feels annoying? How did I get to be so beautiful? I worked on my insides. I have good genetics. I try to take care of myself.

    I ranted like I would rant with a best friend.

    I said, sorry if that scared you. Oh man, you’re totally freaked out, aren’t you? (he seemed it)

    and he was like, “No, I mean, if that’s you ’emotional’ I mean, that’s nothing. I deal with angry people on the phone at work all the time and that’s nothing.”

    I said, I’m sorry, I’m just being honest.

    and I was so truthful with him about stuff.

    Like I’ve been told that I’m intimidating to guys, and I have huge issues with communicating when I’m feeling deeply, and how I get scared, stuff like that.

    He seemed, well, intimidated by me after my little rant.

    He was very vulnerable with me for over an hour and I listenened on level 4 or whatever crap and I think I did a great job.

    After I got done talking, I felt disconnected, like he didn’t “get me.”

    It felt good to be myself and just say what I wanted to say.

    I have a feeling he won’t be calling again for a while though, haha. who knows…

  211.  #211IamHis on January 26, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    I wish Mercedes was still on the blog! I love her Alpha Female Self, haha. 🙂

  212.  #212IamHis on January 26, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    I feel happy…it felt good to be listened to…!

  213.  #213IamHis on January 26, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    ^i sound confusing up there.

    He talked forever first, and then I talked for a little bit, comprising about two hours. yeah…

  214.  #214Cutie on January 26, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    Oh, there is so much that you all have said that I want to respond to because it resonates with me so much!

    IAmHis, your phone conversation sounded very intimate and intense. I can imagine I might feel a bit reeling after that myself.

    What are your feelings around keeping the phone calls shorter and going for short dates instead?

    Just curious … feel free to ignore if that question feels too nosy.

  215.  #215Cutie on January 26, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Ugh, that sounded like advice, and I am in no position to give advice! Feel embarrassed like I wish I could take it back. I just reread and see that you feel happy and listened to … so it sounds like you are on a good path already.

  216.  #216Zia on January 26, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    Loved this post!

    My boyfriend and I celebrated our first anniversary over the weekend 🙂

  217.  #217Zia on January 26, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    Today I had a bit of an emotional day (thanks, hormones) and it got me thinking about some of the things that are different in this relationship to past ones:

    I communicate when I am feeling emotional, or hormonal. I may not use feeling messages 100% of the time, but I use them in my mind, I use them most of the time, and I use them far more than I ever did before.

    When I feel like something is “off”, instead of running to my boyfriend, to demand if something is wrong or start feeling anxious about what might be happening in the relationship, I check in with myself, with my feelings, my emotions, I use that “ball drop” tool (where you gather all the thoughts in the head and just drop them into the pelvis and allow yourself to breathe and open up). Perhaps something IS off, but I know that my reaction and my fears are all about me. This happened today, and I did my own thing and half way through the day I heard from my bf who told me he wasn’t having the best day but that he loved me. So yes my gut feeling was correct, but it was nothing to fear, be anxious about, or stress over.

    I appreciate the space that he may need, and respect the fact that I need my own space too, and I’m willing to give it and request it.

    I trust. I trust what he says. I trust myself to be able to be honest and open. I trust my feelings. I trust that no matter what, I’ll be ok.

    Sometimes I still talk too much instead of listening, but I am a lot more able to stop and listen, and let him lead. I slipped back into old habits sometimes with this, but I know I’m still a work in progress and I know that I will always have to be present, aware, and continue to change to be able to move forward.

  218.  #218Victoria on January 26, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    Good morning Indigo!
    You and I are probably the only ones up on the blog at this hour (if you are :-))
    How have you been? Dealing better with the anxiety/nervous energy?
    Remember, I was on the lean-back diet for a month (November-December) and it was quite difficult at first but did produce fast result but I also had one or two relapses which were very painful.
    I have continued leaning back, and it is only this month (January) that I feel I am very good at it, I’ve got the knack of it… So the “diet” should be more like 3 months or not only one. I mean, I know now that it should be a way of life, not a short term thing, but it was easier for me to get myself to do it knowing I will be trying it out for size for a while. It is easier for me to say “I will give it a try” insteat of “I will live my life differently from now on”.
    So, how have you been?

  219.  #219Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 1:38 am

    I just want to say thank you to all the ladies who gave feedback on how they cope with the restless energy that comes up from leaning back. I found everything you said to be very helpful!

    Victoria – Firstly thank you so much for the advice about the running/cardio. Yesterday on my walk I broke into a bit of a run and worked up a bit of a sweat and then had a cold bubble bath afterwards (the temp is like 35 degrees Celsius here at the moment). It felt amazing! And you’re right, learning to recognise my bored/restless energy and rewarding myself felt great and healthy. I agree with you in 217 that it feels better to think of it in shorter bursts like a month or two, than leaning back for the rest of my life. Sometimes I just set myself a goal like “until Sunday” and that helps too. I have also had a couple of relapses since December which have been painful, but it has only strengthened my resolve to get back on the horse and continue leaning back.

    Andrea 172 & 173 – so wonderful! I have also been experimenting with leaning back more with my friends, family and colleagues – not to the same extent, but noticing a lot more. I love the results you had with Cowboy Ed, and I love that you are falling in love with yourself! It’s great to discover what delightful, loveable creatures we really are and get to enjoy that for ourselves.

    Mistea 175 – Thank you so much, and I agree the blog is a GREAT tool for when we are leaning back and need support and input and just to feel the companionship of the women here.

    Azure Blu 182 – Thank you, and it feels so good that you can relate. I too have experienced many nights when I could not sleep as a result too, and I am just accepting of it and myself and it being what I need at the time, and I just catch up on sleep when I’m feeling calmer.

  220.  #220Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 1:54 am

    I am so happy you found what I said useful. I know it is very very difficult to run in hot weather. Is there a gym with good air-conditioning and a good treadmill that you can join? In summer I usually try to get up very early in order to run (6-7 am) but even that is challenging in the month of August, which is probably the equivalent of January for you.
    I saw other ladies recommended running too. I am thinking, may be all the people I see running in the park (tens of them) and all the people at the gym they all have an acking heart… for some strange reason this brings a smile to my face. What Dixie wrote about running, baking, and sexual self-help (hehehe) could have been written by me. Except that I gave up baking since I have gone gluten-free, but I love cooking… the problem with that is that I want to cook FOR HIM. Dam* these caveman day instincts I have….
    One last thing, running does wonders for getting you physically tired so that you can sleep, but you have to do it sort of earlier in the day, otherwise you may feel too alert at your bed hour.

  221.  #221Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 2:14 am

    Dixie 196 – Yes, my boy energy is in overdrive at the moment, which is great because it does mean that I have spare energy for projects, exercise, even housecleaning! I love the concept of baking and cooking and being creative. And – thank you so much for the suggestion of taking care of one’s own pleasure. That is an excellent suggestion, and too much neglected! These ideas are great.

    Lovergirl 176 – Oh I absolutely LOVE Zumba! And, I can really recommend the cardio exercise for dealing with the difficult feelings. And – please don’t feel bad or beat yourself up if you slip up with the leaning back now and again, every Siren on this blog I would say has done that sometimes. The thing to do is to exercise gentleness and compassion and love with yourself and just to get back on the horse. What seem like small steps forward or even what seems like a step backward… if you look back in a few months’ time you will see how very far you’ve come.

  222.  #222Izzy on January 27, 2015 at 2:21 am

    I broke up with my fiance. There is still a chance we get back, but the plan is to circular date and he is one in my rotation.

    I went to a party this weekend and started talking to this man. The feedback I got from him was quite interesting. He said I was natural and sincere and that I am the kind of woman that makes a man grow professionally and in all other aspects. It felt good to hear that. He also said he was afraid of me. That felt odd. He said he was going to ask me out…

    He sent a message the next day saying hey how are you in a way that is particular to our state. I replied it felt like home to hear that. He replied a little later saying he felt like home when he heard another way of greeting. I read the message and didn’t reply as I was in a hurry getting ready for a rock concert.

    He didn’t send any more messages. Would it be leaning forward if I sent a message today – 2 days later ? It wasn’t a question, so I did not know what to reply, but it feels like I left him hanging. And I need to use him for practice purposes, so it would be nice to meet again. What do you think?

  223.  #223Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 2:22 am


    I used to go to gym, but I honestly hate it. A significant part of the pleasure of exercising for me comes from being outside and being able to feel the breeze against my face and see the cloud formations and watch the moon as it rises etc. So yes, in summer I have to go in the evenings as I am not so good at getting up early. I loved the sexual self-help suggestion – and I think this, along with the exercise, does help one sleep.

    Last night, after the walk/run and bubble bath, I got ready for a date that I had. We had gone out once before (I met him off the dating site) and I had really enjoyed it. Last night he took me out to dinner. He is not traditionally good looking but I felt amazing. He made me feel so warm and feminine, he was great company, funny and chatty and we had lots of things in common to talk about. I felt so pretty when I saw myself reflected in his eyes, I could feel all my internal muscles going sort of soft and gooey and melty. He gave off such an incredible feeling of warmth, I felt like I could collapse into his arms. He paid for dinner and sent me an email when he got home saying that he usually feels so nervous around beautiful women but I made it easy for him to talk to me. I found myself looking forward to seeing him again, and that surprised me 🙂

  224.  #224Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 2:28 am

    If he was the last one messaging I guess it is your turn. Also, there is practically nothing between you and him, at this stage he is an acquaintance/possible friend/someone who will not remember a week from now – so why worry about lean forward?

  225.  #225Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 2:32 am

    I am so happy for your lovely date! It feel almost as good as if I had one!
    By the way, I apologize for repeating this, but cardio does work wonders for you, including the fact that you FEEL MORE BEAUTIFUL after a work out. I am not sure why, but it works!

  226.  #226Femininewoman on January 27, 2015 at 2:34 am

    Izzy I would use him to practice leaning back and using the waterwheel tool. He didn’t ask you a question so nothing to respond to. I’d give him another day to see how masculine he is. Also get curious about yourself to see what it is about you that you would want to reach out to him two days later. What would that be communicating?

  227.  #227Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 2:47 am


    Thank you, and it’s SO TRUE! I felt amazing!


    I echo what both FW and Victoria have said… I have fallen into this trap before. This is a great opportunity to practice not thinking about the man, and just leaning back and being curious about your world.

  228.  #228Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 2:49 am


    ((((Gemini Goddess))))

  229.  #229Lotus on January 27, 2015 at 3:50 am

    Indigo, Dixie, Lovetodance
    Thank you for my much needed siren hugs.

    I’m feeling anxious about meeting my H tonight… I want to feel relaxed and calm, not wanting to cry… I don’t want to put walls up, I know I’ll feel love for him, yet I will probably feel annoyance and disappointment too. I will practice compassion, and try to stick to feeling messages. I want to explore a few things tonight in our conversation.

    Also a CD booked me a month ahead this Saturday for a date.. for his birthday, for sushi… I feel so awkward, I don’t really want to go especially as it’s my mum’s 10 yr memorial anniversary on Sunday, and when I told him that I wouldn’t be able to stay out late as I have the church service the next morning, he laughed a bit, and I said that’s ok.. you didn’t know. That didn’t feel good.. perhaps it was a nervous laugh. And I thought, er, why am I trying to make him feel better?!

    Each time, before I see him, I think I’m going to drop him out of the CD, yet he’s been a gentlemen, pays for everything, picks me up, thinks of nice dates, we seem to have fun. I think I should minimise all CD’s and just keep a couple for light-hearted fun. I feel yuk about meals and any activities that cost money now.. I got so used to leaning back and receiving, now I feel awkward about men paying since a previous CD complained, that I’ve been offering money or a drink. I feel so yuk.

    It’s safer in my cocoon, yet I feel coaxed out… I am struggling to honour myself completely.

  230.  #230Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 4:29 am

    Dear Lotus,
    The meeting with H and deciding what to do with him is a really big deal, in my humble opinion. May be you could consider talking to a coach (and a lawyer?) in order to be best prepared for it?
    I am sending you hugs and my best wishes to you for a clear mind and inner strenght!

  231.  #231Azure Blu on January 27, 2015 at 4:32 am

    Indigo #222
    Ahhh… this date sounds lovely! :-))
    I feel so happy that you enjoyed your time with him…
    I know how stressful the online dating thing can be…
    Discouraging at times…
    feels like an assembly line… next, next,
    and then you have a lovely time with a man
    and it gives you courage to continue!!!
    Here’s to blossoming, Siren Island
    and falling in love with ourselves!!!

  232.  #232Azure Blu on January 27, 2015 at 4:36 am

    You sound so calm given the situation.
    Victoria has a good idea to book a time today and talk to a Rori coach… they are amazing…
    Natalina Love has helped me changed my life
    180 degrees!!! She’s amazing.
    Good luck and am wishing you soft and open on the inside and strong boundaries on the outside!

  233.  #233Karol on January 27, 2015 at 5:17 am

    You are totally right.
    Focus on me. I always forget about it.
    About my project… Yeah, I have a few. Maybe a book. Or a blog….

    I have a an ideia that could be a good thing for my sensuality.
    Write sexual histories. Using my personal fantasies.

  234.  #234Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 5:49 am

    Karol 232,
    I think you’ve got it. Writing is excellent too. Go you!

  235.  #235Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 5:55 am

    how are things with the lawyer?

  236.  #236Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 6:16 am

    Adventures in online dating…the neverending story 🙂
    I received a message from a guy who said, “thanks for visiting my profile, I hope I like what you saw”.
    Well, the truth is, no, no I didn’t.
    I read this, “If you are looking to be friends first then be friendly. If you are looking to find Mr. Right then be willing to meet him. If you can not handle honesty then move on down the road. I am looking to go long term. I ask questions, not to interrogate, but, to get to know the person I am with. I will not be with someone I don’t want to be with just to say I am not alone. I am looking to add to the happiness that is already here. Happiness is not hoarded, it is shared.”

    and I felt sinking, sinking, sinking in my belly. I felt my heart sinking. I felt my lips curl a little and I felt a little icked out.

    My take is, this guy is a probably a jerk but believes he is simply “misunderstood”, the kind of guy who thinks he’s the kindest person on the planet but is actually pretty insensitive to a woman’s feelings. He thinks he “knows it all” and has things figured out.
    I felt challenged, I felt hostile.

    So, what I’m wondering is, is there really any point to sharing this with a guy? I get that CDing is all about practicing vulnerability, and it would feel extremely vulnerable to share how I felt with this guy.
    But why? I don’t want to meet him.

    I kind of want to, just to see what would happen, but I can’t really imagine anything that feels good coming of it.

    What do y’all think?

  237.  #237Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 6:30 am

    Victoria 234,
    Thanks for asking. It is interesting to write to people. He seems to becoming more natural in his comments instead of hiding behind his intellectualism. I’m still content with the emails.

    I’m still feeling bruised over the contact with the other. Email is about right for me at the present.

    I like the flow and organization of his writing, big words and all. We’re still discussing 19th century philosophers. Turns me on.

    This is good practice to remind me that what’s his business should stay his business. For instance he’s made a comment about an ex and wrote I might be uncomfortable with that. I feel that’s his business and am tempted to make a comment to that effect but I don’t want to help him out. I think he’s got enough ego strength and experience to be, aah, a man about all this. Thank goodness I sure hope so.!

    Any comments from your experience? I’d like to up the ante a bit though to find out if he will ask on his own to meet up in a month or so.

    I’m throwing in some provocative comments and flirty type comments which so far he has been very cautiously responding too. They are very mild I might add. This is OK with me.

  238.  #238Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 6:36 am


    I am sooo tempted to say in response to a comment of his: “Ooh I’ve never met a WASP lawyer type. I’ve only read about them in books.” There, I’ve said it. Maybe this’ll do it.

  239.  #239Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 6:44 am

    Beloved 235,

    I know what you mean – I immediately feel cringey when I read profiles like that. As if they are getting defensive right out of the starting gate and are challenging you to “move along” before you’ve even met them. It feels hostile. I have an aversion to anyone who doesn’t demonstrate the capacity to actually get to know who I am without being blinded by their fears or assumptions or what they want or believe to be true.

    As to whether you should say something – well I recently went on a first date with a guy who I felt possessed this kind of guardedness. He didn’t make any effort to get to know me but instead seemed to be preoccupied with putting who he was “out there”, and none of his emails, texts or lines of conversation had even a hint of personal detail to them. I contemplated telling him this because I thought it might help him to see where he was going wrong, but then I remembered a conversation I had with Dominique and remembered that it is my personal journey and hurdle not to advise, suggest or tell men all about themselves. So I said nothing. That was my story, but maybe this experience has a message in it for you?

  240.  #240Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 6:52 am

    Indigo – I feel you’re right. I feel so grateful you shared your experience, thank you!
    I felt sidetracked by the “ick” feeling and after that passed I realized, he went from “hope you liked my profile” to “where do you live” without a single word, much less sentence about me. I sort of got stuck in the “figuring out my feelings” for a minute.
    Nothing to do here..moving on 🙂

  241.  #241Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Oh, I just love how this is going for you! I do not have much experience with online dating, but even in real life, I find the men whom I like, and whom I would like to aks me out, to be taking FOREVER to do that. So, if you can, brace yourself, and be patient, and lean back, and do nothing. If you can’t, then just write a very sweet email, something like, “you sound so fascinating, I am soo curious and excited to see what you would be like in real life”. Even if you do the latter, I do not think that all hell will break loose, he will either take up the ball and run with it or not… In the latter case you will know that there is something off, and he has some reason to not want to see you. Please don’t take any of this as actual advice… only you know what is good for you, I think you will be fine either way.
    With F., after we first got to know each other, he took forever to build the courage to ask me out (2-3 months at least). On our first real date, I could tell he was very very interested in me (or I was imagining it, I have quite good self confidence as you have probably noticed :-)) but he was keeping the conversation general and I felt we were staying at the cafe where we met like for hours … We were sitting in a garden, and there were two glasses of mohito on the table, and I was watchig his beautiful hands mesmerized… I spoke very little the whole time, and I could see he was trying to be entertaining … he is a very good looking guy and I was practically drooling. Anyhow, at a certain point in time, I saw his hand was on the table, so reached over the table, and very slowly moved away his glass which was standing in the way between his hands and mine. He looked me in the eyes, and I could see him wondering what I am doing. And, very gently, I placed my hand on his. I have never seen, before or after, a man look more amazed and joyful than him at this moment.
    He held my hand in his, and we continued talking as if nothing happened, and then when we left the place, on the way out, he gave me the sweetest shortest kiss. And, it took him like almost another month to get us to a second date (he called me on the phone every day but was travelling heavily at the time). So, I have no good advice. I did it all wrong. I am still madly in love with him and he says he is too…

  242.  #242Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 7:02 am


    Oh good, I was hoping you’d think that. Moving right along is the best thing. We want to keep an open space for better and better to show up!

  243.  #243April Rose on January 27, 2015 at 7:13 am


    My own response would be to pick out something from his profile and ask a question, to see if he shows any signs of opening up.
    For example “I feel curious. What kinds of questions do you like to ask when getting to know someone?”
    “I agree with you that it’s not nice to feel interrogated. What’s your favourite way of putting a lady at ease?”

  244.  #244Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 7:22 am

    April Rose – that would be putting more effort into my response than he put in his message to me and would feel like chasing. He didn’t mention anything about my profile, just ‘hope you liked mine, where do you live’ essentially. I feel done with it 🙂
    I also sort of got in the trap of feeling like I had to ‘figure out’ my feelings instead of sinking into them.
    I do so appreciate your attention, it feels so lovely, thank you thank you!!!

  245.  #245April Rose on January 27, 2015 at 7:32 am

    Yes, Beloved, I hear ya.
    I yawn every time I consider checking my POF inbox. It’s so very rare to be asked anything personal.

  246.  #246Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Victoria 240,
    Ooh,ooh, I loved your story about F.

    I’m the type of person who says, I like you, you like me, lets get on with it. In my first and only marriage that’s what happened and I spent almost the whole time paying for my lack of maturity and awareness of myself. Of course, if I waited until I was mature and aware I would have lost a lot that I treasure (my children). I still feel about age 16 emotionally.

    As to online dating, the only 2 people I’ve picked and who picked me have been quality people. So I’ve had a good experience. Of course, I am very picky.

    I’ve commented along the line of yours about “fascinated, I’d like to see that.” We have an ongoing topic of ‘guilty pleasures’ which is ideal for that.

    Thanks for help with the time line. I need to relax about this. I don’t need to have a relationship but I may desire one if the right person comes along.

    I especially thought the hand moving the glass and then being bold enough to put your hand on his was excellent siren behavior. Nice touch! Ooh! That one is going on my list.

    Also, I do like the caution too. It shows they are aware of the potentiality of their actions and take it seriously. Might this be maturity? I will be patient as that is one of the qualities I need to develop. 🙂

  247.  #247Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 7:53 am

    I have wondered a lot why they take so much time/caution, and you might be right that they are aware of the potentiality of their actions. I have had several conversations with F. asking him why it took him forever, he always says that I was acting cold to him, and he thought there were tons of other men around me, and he was afraid that I would reject him… I, on the other hand, felt like I was bending backwards to be nice to him and attractive and inviting… But he was so insecure that he failed to see it, or this is what he wants me to believe. I have another suspicion, that he was seeking someone else (possibly a few women 🙂 at the time, and he just needed the time to make up his mind who he likes best… Either way, a watched kettle never boils 🙂

  248.  #248Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 8:11 am

    Thank you Indigo (176)! I feel more and more AWARE of when I am leaning forward, and that is probably a good thing, even if I have slipups. 🙂 This blog is so helpful and reading everyone’s stories. I feel a bit overwhelmed with keeping up sometimes but I love it!

    The online dating discussion- there are so many men that contact me online that I feel overwhelmed, yet so few seem even interesting enough to go on a date with. I rarely respond to anyone. I’m trying to be a little more open to guys who aren’t my “type” and see them as someone to practice CDing with because it sounds like many of you have interesting experiences.

    I haven’t technically tried CDing with being open and vulnerable yet with men. The boring guy I have sex with, I am sooo closed off to him. I feel like I don’t want him to get close to me. Being vulnerable is very hard for me in general. I think life has taught me to be very self protective.

    I had a rough childhood and was always in the role of having to look out for my siblings and in the caretaker role with my parents. Then, being married to a man that was in ministry, I had to hide my true self from people as well, and put on a front to appear perfect and like I had it all together. I still remember being pregnant with my 3rd child and being in the midst of a horribly stressful day, when a woman said to me “you always have it together and never seem to get stressed out about anything”. I was thinking HOW can she say that??

    My ex husband, even after 13 yrs of marriage and 2 of dating before that, I felt like we hardly knew each other. We never got truly emotionally intimate. People were shocked when we divorced, but inside I felt so disconnected to him.

    I have a really hard time crying in front of anyone. So I feel that in some ways I have come a long way, because the guy I am seeing now, has seen me break down and cry on more than one occasion. He also makes eye contact with me more often and I feel like I am making headway in actually being able to hold it for awhile.

    He has complained in the past that I don’t tell him how I feel in person but that I will send him a long text afterwards. He is one that likes to see my face and hear my voice and really know how I am feeling. So this is my challenge to myself- to be more authentic with my feelings with everyone, not just with him.

  249.  #249Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Another pet peeve I have about online dating is the guys whom you have exchanged a few messages with, maybe gone on one date with, and say with that knowing expression, “well, we seem to be on the same page. We seem to be a good match and want the same things” and you can just see the expectations dripping from that statement. And I’m thinking, we don’t even know each other! This seems to happen to me a lot. They latch onto one thing I’ve said about myself and decide based on that that there is no reason for us not to be a couple.

    Contrast that with the guy I went out with last night, who so gently and warmly was interested in getting to know who I was, who remembered lots and lots of little details that I had mentioned, and in the short time that we’ve known each other we’ve already covered a wide variety of topics. To me, he seems like a GEM. It is such a turn-on for me when someone is interested in connecting with me in a real way, I am so turned off by guys who can’t do that – it feels cold to me.

  250.  #250Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Lovergirl 247,

    One thing I’ve noticed is that when you start leaning back and opening up authentically, and NOT being closed off to people, it affects every relationship in your life. There was a guy I had in the periphery a bit like your boring guy, a hot guy whom I initially agreed to have a sort of “friends with benefits” arrangement with, even though he bored the everliving daylights out of me. When I started really leaning back and opening up my feelings with other people I lost interest in him and in situations which weren’t “going anywhere”. It’s a little scary and uncomfortable (apparently that’s how you know that you’re doing it right) but exciting and wonderful as well.

  251.  #251Mistea1 on January 27, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Victoria 246,

    Of course, I’m sure he’s writing to several women. I am so naive it’s hard to believe I’ve made it this far! Oh well, we will see. Thanks for the much needed input.

  252.  #252Andrea on January 27, 2015 at 9:03 am

    First of all I just feel so grateful and in awe of all the suggestions that Labbit had about creating an online dating profile. That really helped me.

    Long winded Riff coming on……

    I received some very good messages, two of the men really went in depth to show that they had read my profile and responded very eloquently to it.

    A slew of men sent one liners, hi, how you doing. type messages.

    And a couple of them were in between.

    After three days, I admit, I just can’t do it though. I went on Plenty of Fish. I just feel icky dirty every time I log on. I feel inundated with what seem like advertisements, men sitting back in their leather chairs, taking pictures of themselves and posting themselves up with “clever” lines and all trying to prompt ME to DO something. And ugh ugh ugh.

    I’m sorry. I just feel gross about it. I think it’s the free online dating site mentality. Maybe??? I just suddenly got this sickening notion that the men who are on POF are the men who aren’t willing to just approach a lady they see and like and just ask her for her phone number and if they can call her. And darn it, I don’t care what the dating coaches say… That’s the type of man that I want.

    The type of man who is willing to put himself out there in the off chance that I might say yes. Why? Because that’s the type of woman I am. I take risks. I own my journey in life. I put myself in uncomfortable situations in order to grow. I see lessons in every interaction.

    I don’t want a man who types something into his computer and then sits back and waits. Ick. Worse, the men who complain that women are false or hypocritical because the men didn’t get the results they were looking for. Worse, the men who prompt.. throw a bite, tug the strings a little and then hunker down on their over turned bucket to watch the little fishy flail and grasp for breath. Yes, I feel suffocated by the needy, lazy, selfish.

    oof! I listened to a podcast this morning by Carlos Cavallo. At one point he was speaking to the question of women who stay in the wrong relationship for too long. He said, 90 % of that problem comes long before the woman even meets the man. So many women go into dating with out really even knowing what they want, and just like going into a car dealership with out knowing what type of vehicle you are looking for; the women do some shopping around until they are sold something by the slickest salesman.

    He said, first of all, know what you want. It only takes ten minutes to make a list. Then you can add to it, or shift it, as you start to know more. But be conscious of learning and knowing what it is you’re looking for.

    After I listened to the podcast I went online and told messaged three of the men that I had the most contact with and was most impressed with that I was deleting my account and here is my phone number if they would like to call me some time.

    And then I deleted my account. And then I could breath again.

    Then I laid back down in my bed and I thought, “Man, I really need to check in with myself and feel these feelings and why I’m so intensely turned off by this whole experience of online dating.”

    So that’s where I’m at in my process. It’s obvious that I feel very triggered and very negative about online dating. Even though I was feeling kind of excited about it over the weekend, I know just feel exhausted. Jeesh… I definitely feel better and like I’m taking care of myself by getting myself off of Plenty of Fish.

    I think if I venture into that world again I’m going to only go to E.Harmony and pay for an actual profile and … I don’t know… still…. I feel it’s okay for me to do that, and for women to do that… but the thought of a man actually sitting down to the computer and filling out those surveys and writing profiles and taking pictures of himself….. eeeeeewwwww….. OMG, that is SUCH a HUGE turn off.

    Obviously, I want to meet a man that is a little more rough around the edges, and too busy to even consider spending that much time on the computer.

    So….. (maybe I’m judging myself, that I actually have so many things going on in my life right now, that I have no business spending so much time on this particular area of my life.) hmmmmmmm

  253.  #253Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 9:05 am

    @ 248 Indigo-

    Oh yes, I hate when men assume they know allll about me off the bat. The boring guy- he has said from the beginning that we have this fabulous “chemistry” and the same interests, and I’m thinking, not really. He also said how he read all about our signs and how we match (he is an Aries, I am a Virgo) and somehow this has him knowing exactly everything about me.

    He decided right away that I am “shy” and that is why I don’t express myself with him. I have a pet peeve about being called “shy” because really, I’m not. Sometimes I’m quiet at first but it’s really just me paying attention and soaking things in about the other person. I can be very outgoing in social situations, or I can clam up, depending, but I really am NOT “shy”.

    Anyway it just drives me batty that he keeps telling me what kind of person I am, rather than actually bothering to find out! He needs to work on his listening level 2 skills. 😉

  254.  #254Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 9:13 am

    @249 Indigo-

    I feel encouraged. 🙂 This is something I want to work on. I also feel like I need to work on learning to not “advise”. It’s hard sometimes with my guy because we are doing WORK together for his business, and I want to offer suggestions for that. Sometimes I think its STILL better to let him be the one doing so, unless I am ASKED specifically for advice. I caught myself advising on a few things yesterday over the phone that I probably didn’t need to. He is one of those guys that likes to think everything is his idea too. 😉

  255.  #255Andrea on January 27, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Siren Song: Holding space inside my boundaries.

    I went on two dates with a man sometime around Halloween of last year. I wasn’t that attracted to him but I felt flattered by his attention to me and his care for me. And there was something about me, one of the biggest lessons that I’ve been trying to work on: Just Be Honest.

    I didn’t like that he kept sending me facebook prompts to my message inbox. Finally I just unfriended him.
    I felt really icky about his passive aggressive need to get my attention that way.

    When he went to Florida over the holidays he sent me pictures to my text messaging, every day, morning and night, pictures. Over Christmas.. pictures… of him of the sights he was seeing.

    That would have been nice if it was someone with whom I’d established a true relationship with, but with this man, it just felt needy, desperate, icky.

    One night last month, he was back in town and sent me another text. I finally called him and told him how turned off I am by the constant flow of texts. That if he wanted me to go on another date with him, he just needed to call and ask me out.

    So Monday morning he called me. He asked me out for Wednesday lunch. Even though I really did not want to go out with him, I felt guilty and stupid because I had told him that if he wanted to go out he should just call me. The whole thing made me feel gross. But I agreed to go out with him because I felt responsible for his feelings. (Ick)

    So, he got the yes. Next thing I know… here comes a text… he’s happy we are going out on Wednesday.

    Then another text… he’d like to tell me that he really likes me, is that okay?

    Then another text… can he call me tonight when I get off of work.

    Oh UGH!! I texted him: I feel really pressured and interrupted when I need to stop my day answer text messages. I feel really solid and confident and happy to tend to my own needs and enjoy my own company until we meet on Wednesday. I’m happy about our date, but I want space until then.

    Jeesh. I felt good about that text. But later I felt like… Why am I going on another date with this man. I DO NOT LIKE HIM!!! What am I doing???

    So I breathed through that and dropped down into my feelings. What is the message of this man?
    I felt like all along I had to train him how to date me. I felt like he needed me to fill up his life somehow, like he needed me to rescue him from the obvious boredom of his own life.

    I also felt something like… I don’t know… if I were fully and completely focused on me and focused on making my life the best life it could possibly be, then men like that wouldn’t even stand a chance at even turning my head.

    Focusing back on myself, my life, my goals, my dreams, the excitement of becoming a college graduate and losing weight and gaining health and creating a career for myself.

    This morning I got a text from that man. He needed to cancel the Wednesday date for blah blah reason.

    I thought… wow… When we get the message, the messenger is free to leave! Hooray!

    So I texted him back: Hey, no worries. Honestly I’m feeling kind of lackluster and unmotivated to continue this connection. I really don’t see us as a romantic match.

    He wrote back: That’s cool. Wish you well.

    THE END!!! I feel free!

  256.  #256IamHis on January 27, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Cutie – aw, I don’t think you’re being nosey, I think you’re being cute and trying to be helpful! 🙂

    As far as the shorter dates and shorter conversations…all that short stuff feels easy to me. It’s the deeper stuff…the triggering stuff that I really need to practice working on…opening myself, being vulnerable, etc. that I really struggle with.

    When a man is opening up himself and asking me to do the same, what better time to practice it than that?

  257.  #257Dixie on January 27, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Ahhh, just a little personal observation here.. I’ve been inundated with marking papers today, and D. has been supportive and sweet in his messages and phone calls….

    Here’s the funny thing… A year ago, I would have chased this delicious energy, but now? Oh, I am enjoying the lean back so, so much! Of course, I slip up, but I don’t berate myself for it. I’m just so glad to be aware of how I feel in his presence. I really feel so much affection and desire for him, but now, well, I feel that for myself, more than him, lol!

    As I feel my siren muscles gaining definition, the highs and lows of the chase are calmer, easier. I honestly feel like a
    steady sailboat these days. And leaning back from here just let’s me observe this whole interaction with pure delight, no neediness.

    You know those days when you can feel so clearly that you’re moving towards something good in life? I can feel that today.

  258.  #258Dixie on January 27, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Excuse those typos…. My head feels like cotton today!

  259.  #259Labbit on January 27, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Dixie, that sounds so wonderful! What you say about feeling affectionate towards him but even moreso towards yourself really resonates with me. It feels juicy.

    Likewise, I am settling into a lovely dance with TenderCD. It’s like we’ve filled each other’s dance cards up. Slowly, I am relaxing further and deeper with my heart a little more open with each song. We’re dancing closely and sometimes I feel the urge to lead, or pull away, or I mistakenly step on his toes. Mostly though it’s becoming more of a relaxed harmony and we’re both enjoying ourselves quite a bit.

    After every song is over — or back to reality, after we’ve spent a good chunk of time together and temporarily part, my mind will start racing with everything I did wrong. Any mess-ups I made (which of course is everything). Everything is triggering me right now. Lots of old pains, hurts, rejections coming up to the surface. And yet it’s getting easier to let all of these emotions and fears flow through, to give them space to be heard in my mind and then either set aside or put to rest. There’s a constant undercurrent of calm that I can find any time I look for it. Peace. Connection.

    And then I meet up with Tender again, he takes my hands and pulls me back in close for the next dance. I quiet my mind and drop into my heart, opening it up a little more. I find trust. Trust that this joy will build into more joy. That no matter what happens I will be fine, great even. I feel love for myself and it’s radiating out of me. I want to stay in this spot forever.

  260.  #260Gemini Goddess on January 27, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    Indigo 227

    Thanks. That felt so warm.

  261.  #261Gemini Goddess on January 27, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Labbit 258
    So beautiful. I love your perspective. I feel so inspired. Thank you.

  262.  #262Mandy on January 27, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    I just sent a feeling message to J.

    He was drunk as a skunk last night and brought up our lack of sex for the first time, in a malicious manner. He blamed me for us not having sex, when I am perfectly able to have it 5 times a day if need be.

    He blamed me for telling our friend about it when I had no one else to talk to, which happened three months ago and I thought we’d worked through it.

    I have tried EVERYTHING, you all know this, and have had this pain sloshing around inside me forever because he won’t let me bring it up to him or go to his doctor or find a therapist.

    So I just quit being nice and I let him have it…in truthful feeling messages.

    I told him I refuse to accept his blame and projection of himself onto me, I’m done fixing it, it’s on him, and that if he doesn’t want me to be talking to other people about it/feeling bad/feeling platonic, that I need to be allowed to talk to him about it, and if not that, then he needs a counselor.

    I also told him I don’t want to hear blame for it ever again and that I deserve an apology.

    I’d better get off the blog right now because I’m going to let out a string of curse words and awful things if I don’t.

  263.  #263Azure Blu on January 27, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Labbit #258
    Thank you!!! sooo warm and beautiful

  264.  #264Lotus on January 27, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    Victoria – you are right, thank you. Your words helped me stop rushing today. I just felt so much sadness and anxiety today, and my insides didn’t feel good. So I cancelled to buy myself some more time, so I can feel more ready.

    Azure – I am mostly calm as I’ve resolved so many things, and CDing helped tremendously, but it’s been a long journey. My emotions aren’t as raw as they used to be. I’m glad to hear how your coach has helped you do a 180 degrees.

  265.  #265Lotus on January 27, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Andrea 254
    I’m taking notes, love the way your messages are so authentic.

    Also, I relate with your riff about POF. I’ve recently hidden my profile since wanting to retreat from CDing, but haven’t been ready to delete it yet. Maybe I just have a problem in letting go argh! I found that the longer I let my ‘net’ stay in the water, it would gather better men over time who I could practice with. I do think that because it’s a free dating site, 90% are just bleurgh or blah…or nice but not my match. I like to call it something like the Wild West: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, except the Good is hard to find. I just know that you’ve moved beyond that Andrea, hence why you’ve left POF! Not sure if you’ve tried this, but something I’ve come across for meeting quality men is to think about what kind of interests or places a quality man would have/visit, and pick some for yourself, like once a week, especially where you’ll have fun too, maybe like learning/spectating a new sport/hobby.. or going to an event, and practice all your tools there with lots of men around you, the siren, and see who comes forward! I think that’s more your scene, forget about online!!!

  266.  #266Lotus on January 27, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Lovely Sirens – I have some lighter CD trouble I need some help with.. if I can

    I feel a bit confused with CDing with the weight of gaining clarity on my marriage/divorce which is why I’ve been retreating from guys and their energy.

    So what do I say to this CD who’s booked me in on Saturday for his birthday – dinner for two in a neighbouring city and I don’t feel it’s a good time for me to go, as I’m going through this heavy time.. I just feel really exposed saying that. Then I think, well maybe I’d have fun…just enjoy the date. I feel really screwed up with decisions at the moment.. whether to CD a bit but need to honour myself more. Consequently I feel like I’m messing guys around with my lack of clarity, and sometimes taking 2 days to get back to messages, and then some days like last night engaging in a flurry of texts.

    I’m in two minds, I want to hang out with a girlfriend/ take myself on a date as it’s a weird time ..indecision seems to be gnawing away in my brain. I don;t want to let him down, turn down some fun….

    And then there’s another CD who missed out on a date with me at the weekend as I was busy, and this wk he’s asked me to the cinema and it’s a film I don’t want to watch, and I think I would probably enjoy a film by myself or with a girlfriend….

    How about this:
    I’m going through a bit of a difficult time at the moment, especially this week, where I need to look after myself and I’m not feeling motivated with dating and connecting…
    (guy A:) … and I’m sorry, I know it’s for your birthday and I feel bad for cancelling… and when you laughed in the car when I told you it was my mum’s 10yr anniversary since she passed away, I felt a bit shocked and put off.
    (guy B:) … and to be honest, it’s not a film I’m feeling in the mood for, and would prefer to watch a girly film by myself or with a girlfriend at the moment.

    The other thing about guy A is that I’m not sure if he’s insensitive/nervous or just fancies me too much to hear my feelings.. sounds odd I know, let me explain – we’ve been on several dates, and he does all the gentlemanly things, is very consistent and his keenness is portrayed through updating me on his career/life progress, wanting to find someone like me after his divorce, and tells me I’m a beautiful lady who has a warm and sincere heart, that he thinks a lot of me.. yet on our last date, when I told him I felt too cold to go on a walk, we ended up going on this walk and it’s my fault as I didn’t stick to my boundaries, I was so cold, my brain numbed out!!! Even though he gave me his coat and tried to keep me warm and I was sooo damn cold I felt a bit ill the next day, and he didn’t reply to my message about that, about me feeling ill. And then in a recent text when I told him I wasn’t feeling well all day, he didn’t reply to that either, and just focused on our next date and telling me how beautiful I am. I’m just thinking, ‘argh where’s your empathy??’

    He commented really early on that’s he’s so keen on me, that he doesn’t want to scare me off so he tried not to act so keen on purpose by not contacting me so frequently, which meant on our second date, he didn’t tell me where to meet him and it was like a treasure hunt. It was damn good practice for ultimate lean back, as I purposely didn’t ask any questions and see what he would do to find out where the heck I was. So all in all.. this is why I’ve been wanting to drop him, his energy just feels a bit clompy and befuddled, besides I don’t fancy him. He’s really interesting to talk to, some say he’s dishy, we jive intellectually/playfully together but I need a man who is sensitive to how I’m feeling especially if he’s keen! Hmm.. would really appreciate some siren input!

  267.  #267Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    @261 Mandy-

    (((Hugs))) That was very brave of you. I feel like you did the right thing.

  268.  #268Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    @ Andrea 254-

    Good for you! What a relief to be finished with him! I have been inundated by a marathon texting man before myself. He was younger than me (26) and I attributed it to immaturity. He just couldn’t stop texting me, no matter how many times I pointedly tried to end the conversation. I think somehow he thought that was what I would want as a woman.

  269.  #269Lotus on January 27, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    Lovergirl 267
    lol! – ‘marathon texting man’
    I also like to think the younger guys/girls are used to texting which I see as lazy communication. Sometimes I think the Cd guys needs to pick up the phone, but then I realise I’m not in the zone to talk to them anyway….

  270.  #270Labbit on January 27, 2015 at 4:57 pm


    I would keep it really short and sweet for both.

    Guy A: I’m feeling overwhelmed by the anniversary of my mother’s passing and don’t think I’d be up to a date this weekend. I hope you have a wonderful birthday!!
    (Don’t apologize, when you do this you negate your feelings. You have every right not to feel ready to spend his birthday with him and want some alone time to mourn.)

    If you’re really not into this guy you should let him know sooner rather than later. Guys don’t pick up on subtleties. 😉 Especially not when you’re first dating. It’s up to you to tell him how you’re feeling and if he doesn’t hear you the first time I’d back away, physically if I have to. It sounds to me like this man would make great practice for boundaries, but if there’s no interest at all on your side it’s not worthwhile to keep seeing him.

    Guy B: I’m not feeling in the mood to see that film. I’ve made plans with a friend of mine this weekend but it would feel great to see you next week!
    (You can suggest two days you’re free next week if you like.)

  271.  #271Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    Oooh, Mandy, you GO girl!!

  272.  #272Gemini Goddess on January 27, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    Had a really great feeling thought. It seems that really, the “challenge” is just to relax enough to let good things happen.

  273.  #273IamHis on January 27, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    A guy from HS found me on FB and we have a coffee date tomorrow.

    I feel nervous enough to throw up all over the place about it.

    Also found myself feeling sad today. Checked my woman calendar and I should be getting my period in exactly a week.

    Does anyone else struggle with premenstrual sadness? Had two pieces of dark chocolate and guacamole today, which helped a little bit.

    Also, I’ve lost ten pounds since cutting back on sugar this year!

    I still feel inexplicably sad, though…

  274.  #274Femininewoman on January 27, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    Oh (((((((Mandy)))))))))

  275.  #275Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    am feeling
    I’m feeling so loved, cared for
    so safe, so sweet.
    My housemate…feels so, so, so easy to be around.
    Just…easy. So, so so SO easy.
    I don’t even know what to do with myself, this is all so easy.
    He is so straight up with me, keeps me informed, communicates.
    He even asked me when class starts tomorrow, because his parents will be here and he was thinking of introducing me to them.
    I don’t feel it means anything, it does just feel good that he’s thinking of me…and also letting me know what’s going on, so I know not to be lounging around in my sweatpants tomorrow, haha 🙂
    It feels so odd to feel like, a man is thinking of me, has me on HIS mind, while I’m just..living my life.
    I feel so happy and content.
    I feel so grateful.
    I just want to stayyyyyyy…

  276.  #276Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    So I found this new guy on POF (or rather he found me) and I am considering making him a CD. He’s coherent and claims to be a “financial executive”. He’s gentlemanly over email and text.

    Anyhow I find myself being skeptical of everything guys say that I meet online. Maybe I’m just too self protective but I usually assume they are full of b.s. I feel very suspicious, lol.

    Here are some examples with this guy:

    He said: He flies in every week from Dallas and goes back on the weekends.

    I hear: I am married with a couple of kids back in Dallas and this is how I cheat

    He said: He was supposed to fly in Sunday night and we could go out Monday. Then the “only” flight coming my way got delayed.

    I heard: I am postponing our date because of my wife/I have another date

    Tonight he did not ask me on a date. He asked: when I am free and I said I would be tomorrow. However, he seemed to be trying to cut our text conversation short with a comment about how his cousin, who just happened to also fly in today, also for business, was supposed to go out to dinner with him. He said the “cousin” is leaving tomorrow.

    What I heard: I have another date in a few minutes so I need to stop texting.

    A few minutes later he tells me: that his cousin is trying to make him drive to where he is.

    I am thinking: She sounds like a Rori Raye follower! 😉

    A few minutes later he texts again to tell me he isn’t going because the place closes in 15 min and he thinks his cousin wants to stay in and talk to his girl or something. He says he can go to lunch with his cousin tomorrow.

    I’m thinking: Oh, this is an interesting cousin, who flies in for a day and wants to hang out but then decides to stay in with “his girl” who also flew in for the day? 😉 Also, I thought the cousin was leaving tomorrow? Plus, um, it’s 7:55 pm. What restaurants close at 8:10? Did he just get stood up?

    He says (about the cousin): He’s in love for the very first time so I’m cutting him some slack.

    I’m thinking: Seriously buddy, I don’t even know you and we didn’t have a date tonight, you don’t have to tell me these elaborate tales. Haha

    He asked if he was “bothering” me and I said no but I do have some things I need to do in a few minutes. He told me to call him later, he is going to find some food. I won’t call. I’ll see if he is proactive in trying to set up a date or not.

  277.  #277Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    I feel so f*cking good.
    I have a glass of wine in hand (that he offered me when I went downstairs) and some yumlicious chillout music playing.
    I “should” be studying, but right now, I want to bask in this glorious, orgasmic blissful feeling of home.
    I feel so blessed.
    happythankyoumoreplease <3<3<3

  278.  #278Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    The other thing is he asked me where I want to go to meet. He said “someplace where we can talk”. I hate when men try to get me to pick the place. I’m always thinking they need to be the one to choose, especially since they would be the one paying and I’m not trying to go outside of their budget. I said I wasn’t sure where to go.

  279.  #279Lovergirl on January 27, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Beloved- I am rejoicing with you! That sounds wonderful! 😀

  280.  #280Beloved on January 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Lovergirl – thank you, I feel so warm and melty and lusciously blissful 🙂
    I feel like I SO f*cking deserve this. I could just cry.
    I totally, totally deserve this.
    It feels so right.
    I’ve DONE the work, I’ve FELT the feelings, I’ve MADE the changes.
    So good.
    So, so, so good.
    yumyumyum yesyesyes thisthisthis 🙂

  281.  #281Liquid Light on January 27, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    The Mayor texted me “When can I see you”. I replied Thursday or Friday? He replied “Both”. hahaha…then I asked him “What did you have in mind?”

    Was that too leaning forward?

    I’m curious what he will come up with.

  282.  #282Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    Lovergirl 275,

    Your post made me laugh out loud! 🙂

    I would have thought exactly the same thing. I just feel on the one hand so exasperated and on the other so amused by guys who seem to be used to spinning these elaborate stories over text that they do it without thinking.

    Oh, when a guy asks me which restaurant I’d like to go to or tries to get me to pick the place, I say “I love surprises. I feel sure you will choose somewhere lovely.” Without exception I have had guys respond positively to that statement, and they DO pick somewhere lovely.

  283.  #283Indigo on January 27, 2015 at 10:25 pm


    This may be a no-brainer, and I know we’ve spoken about this before, but I could use some input.

    On Sunday, I had a first coffee date with someone off the dating site. I did not feel attracted to him. This was not just because of his looks, which are not a huge deal to me if I feel drawn to the person in other ways. It was more that he seemed to be a very nice, decent guy who left me absolutely cold. Again, it seemed to be an effort for me to get anything about myself in there – when I did start talking it felt more like he was being polite than genuinely interested. He seemed very thrilled about meeting me, but I didn’t feel the same way. He works a lot – 12 hour plus days, and he talked a lot about his work, just felt like this coldly logical feeling. Not juicy and genuine and warm and really human, like I like.

    He texted me that night and I felt really blah about it. He’s texted me this morning and wants to see me this weekend, and asked if he could call me later. I don’t feel keen but can’t really come up with a good reason to reject him other than what I’ve said. Is it ok to say no to these guys, the ones who seem nice but leave us cold?

    Victoria? Anyone else who might be awake?

  284.  #284Victoria on January 27, 2015 at 11:27 pm

    The way I would look at it would be the following
    1. Are you already booked for the time he is suggesting (seems no). Do you have anything better at that time then go out with him at that time (you might read a book, do your nails, etc., so the question is, what feels better to you. I would choose a date with a blah man instead of staying home alone anytime, but as we know this is because I am extrovert and just need human interaction.
    2. Do you have 3 CDs in the rotation. If not, keep him in. If yes, revisit 1.
    3. Think about what it is about him that turns you off. I personally figured that I am always tuned off by a man with a fat bottom, irrespective of his personality… And then share it here, that would make for a fun, if somewhat cruel conversation 😉

  285.  #285Millie on January 27, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    Lovergirl 275 I love how mildly entertained you sound…I imagine him dancing around with these tales and you sitting back laughing…not eating up his words. I agree, it sounds strange and too detailed. I’d rather the focus be on when he could see me, rather than the details of why he couldn’t…

    Indigo–I have been on many a date like that. Great guy, just leaving me feeling cold, icky, or even repulsed. I remember reading in the RR book that it’s good to use men like that as practice if he doesn’t send your skin crawling. It might be a good opportunity to practice feeling messages and I want statements and seeing how he responds…lately though, personally, I feel like if its not there and you know it…why bother. May not necessarily be the best attitude to have…but I feel like my time is so valuable, if I don’t “feel” it…don’t do it.

  286.  #286Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 12:09 am

    @ Lotus 265,
    You seem to be in a very complicated situation with your emotions, dear Lotus.
    I feel an urge to try to help you, because I read anguish in your post, but I personally feel ill-prepared for dealing with such complex emotions and such a serious step as divorce. Again, it seems to me a coach/priest/+ lawyer would be well equipped to help you.
    I have personally seen married couples break up, separate, even divorce, and then reconnect and remarry. My mom and dad were separated for 2 years, but now have a 40+ year marriage (a difficult one, but still alive). My best friend was divorced by her husband, but then he asked her to remarry him a year later, and they are now the happiest couple I know. Mind you, none of these people I am talking about is religious, so they were free from the spiritual meaning of marriage that a devoted Catholic would have.
    At the same time, I gather from your posts that many men find you attractive, and I see you enjoy the fun and attention. Maybe you married too young the first time, and you need to sow your wild oats now, and are simply not in the mental/feeling/spiritual position to devote yourself to one man only?
    I wish you the best of luck either way!

  287.  #287Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 1:00 am

    Victoria – honestly, I don’t have other plans, but there are other things I’d rather be doing. I am the opposite way round to you, where an invitation needs to sound good to me before I give up my me-time. I don’t have 3 CD’s in rotation but I am hopeful of finding ones that I feel a little more happy about! As to what turns me off about him (for your fun conversation! 😉 ) he is actually just too clean cut and too nice in that sort of cold way. You know those guys who look as if they’ve been reminded by their moms to shave and comb their hair and to put on something nice? Also it was the cool detached way that he talked – not wanting to complain about the long hours at his job, looking at me politely but without much interest when I spoke, he just spoke very coldly and clinically about his life and the people in it as though he didn’t want to complain about anything. It felt cold to me. He also made a comment about people who emmigrate out of South Africa “taking the easy way out” and not having the resources to make it here, and that stung me considering my family has been a victim of violent crime and I think people have every right to leave if they believe it is the better, safer choice.

    Millie – I do feel like it’s not there and that having another date would be prolonging the inevitable, and I kind of agree with you here… my time is so precious, especially my weekends so if I’m not feeling it, my feeling veers more towards not doing it.

    What I finally decided is that I couldn’t bring myself to send a message saying that I didn’t feel we were a match just yet, but that I also couldn’t bring myself to sacrifice any of my weekend time for his sake. So, I settled for saying that I had plans this weekend but if he liked he could contact me next week and we could have coffee. One more coffee date should be enough to confirm my decision.

  288.  #288Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 1:31 am

    So you had no chemistry… I also like it when I see the man has a little bit of an animal masculinity in him. I deal with clean, clean-shaved, polished guys at work all day… refined, sophicticated, gender-less men. Uhhhhh.

  289.  #289Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 1:35 am

    Yes, exactly. Like the head of human resources or a consultant or something… yaaaaawwwn. I like a man I can feel, where there is something just a little bit raw and real and a little bit animal about him.

  290.  #290Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 2:03 am

    thinking about it, I have never dated a man who dresses well. I consider this a feminine quality, and when I see a man in an impeccable suit, shoes shining, very clean shaved, it is such a turn off. I am thinking, here comes the primadona :-).
    I also get turned off by vegetarians (hope not to offend any lady here), but I sort of want a man who is a predator… I am very careful about what I eat, and I exercise religously, yet I do not find these qualities attractive in a man. Uhhhh, may be I just have to many requirements… He needs to be tall, and handsome, and masculine, and brave, and aggressive when the times require it, and balanced, and a good listener, and very s*xual, and be able to provide for me, and have a great sense of humor, and must be crazy about me. I girl can dream, no?

  291.  #291Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 2:10 am


    I feel the same way! A guy who is too careful and too measured, too neat and just too PC is a big turn-off to me… a man needs to be messy and masculine, because it is a nice counterpoint to me – I am also careful with my body and my health and my appearance and I agree, I feel these are feminine qualities.

    Urgh, I’m glad I am on the blog because I am feeling SO tempted to contact D. I am trying to be strong and not lean forward so I am blogging instead. Oh please oh please let this feeling pass and let this get easier. Yesterday I put on a Zumba video and did a little cardio workout that way and that helped. Slept really well too!

  292.  #292Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 2:27 am

    Just hang in there. It is a few more days of “withdrawal symptoms” but then you will feel so free, so free when the addiction is over. I promise you, you will get there. Also, if you can, really push yourself physically, overexercise! Sending you love and hugs!

  293.  #293Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 5:07 am

    Victoria 291,

    Thank you 🙂 this post of yours means so much to me! Thank you!

  294.  #294Labbit on January 28, 2015 at 5:11 am

    LOL Indigo and Victoria. I like a rough and tumble guy as much as the next girl, but you don’t see many of them in the city. I am very much into men in fine suits — ties are a big turn-on for me. And I promise you that underneath that refinement is plenty of animal instinct. To me it is very masculine…it’s no different to me than if I saw football player who plays for a winning team, or an outdoorsmen or craftsman that is excellent with his hands and tools. What strikes me as masculine is a man on top of his game, who carries himself with confidence.

  295.  #295Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 5:11 am

    Love love love something Leigha wrote in one of her past blogs.
    It had to do with those emotional drags when we are missing a man. Leaning back, yes.

    But also feeling those feelings. Not DOING anything. Not judging. Not trying to stop the feelings. But feeling them in your body.

    Last night, (hormonal) I checked to see if I could find RRguy on facebook. Oh… dread…. why??? He’s just changed a profile picture and he is (to me) just dead on handsome in that photo.

    So, he’s in his hometown, livin it up, taking pictures of himself and putting them on facebook. (sarcasticly spoken…. of course, I’m doing the same thing in my home town.)

    But I had this awful moment of, you know, all the blahs. What did I do to push him away? What mistakes did I make? Why doesn’t he call me? Why does my life feel so empty without him? HIM! That particular man. ?!???!!! wha????

    So I just had to lay down on my bed and let myself feel. Ugh. It felt awful. My hips and belly felt so heavy and full and oppressed. I felt the story I’d been telling myself that this man could rescue me from my life. I felt how handsome he is and how Wowed I am that a gorgeous man liked me. I felt missing that excitement of just looking at him. I felt pressure. I felt panicky pressure to please him, to make him happy, to be what ever it is he wants me to be so that I can keep him. I felt a long life of chasing him, of always believing I’m not good enough to have a handsome man, of always wondering if he’s cheating on me.

    I felt my insecurities. Oh my harsh and biting insecurities. And realized that I always go for the kind of unattractive men because I feel more confident around them. And I realized that I’m never fully pleased by the men I’ve dated in my past, I’m never fully aroused, never fully awakened. And that is comfortable for me.

    RRguy shook my out of my comfort zone. But more than that…. something……

    I feel …. love my insecurity, but acknowledge that it’s so so wrong. Men of all looks, styles, income levels, etc…. have flocked to me. I’ve been told over and over that I’m beautiful and that my personality is so open and inviting that men are initially attracted to me.

    It’s that pressure that hurts my belly. What do I do when I know a man is actually truly attracted to me?

    Again, right now. I feel that pressure in my hips, my belly. Some fear I can’t quite name yet. But I feel choiceless, or powerless, or…. when a good looking man wants me. I feel trapped. Does that make any kind of sense???

    Anyway, Do I really miss RRguy?? Or is there still a message here for me in the Lean Back.

    Again, I don’t think it’s about him. This feeling, this angst, this wanting him, needing him, missing him, liking him… etc…. all about me. Learning in the Lean Back.

  296.  #296Labbit on January 28, 2015 at 5:28 am

    Andrea why do you think you’ve lost him?

    What if…he’s really into you and is letting himself feel those feelings before he makes his next move?
    What if…he’s just checking to make sure there’s no one else out there that really stirs him up before he comes back to you, perhaps ready to dive in?
    What if…he’s counting the days until the next time he’s in your town so he can wrap you up in his arms again?

    I’m not trying to feed into off-base fantasies, I just find it interesting that your mind has automatically jumped to him no longer being interested in you or fears of cheating because it’s been over a week since you’ve heard from him. I get it, it feels like FOREVER, and I wish it weren’t this way…but I see nothing that signals he’s left or forgotten you or isn’t coming back.

    I think you ARE a wonderful, inviting, attractive woman and I think RRGuy feels the same way. He’s just not committed to you yet, that’s all. I don’t think this situation is nearly as dire as it feels to you right now. However, I’m not trying to take away anything from what you feel…I know only too well what it’s like when you’re not sure what a guy is thinking and even a day is too long to go between hearing from him.

    The hardest part of driving a man to commit is making sure you keep yourself first. Keep up your routines, do all the things you’d do if he didn’t exist to you — including going on dates. It’s the fastest way to inspire him towards you.

  297.  #297Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 5:37 am

    I am very dependent on my hormones, and I have very heavy PMS emotionally. When I am in my PMS mode, I feel depressed, unattractive, and I ask myself questions of the type “why does he not do so and so”. Then, the next day, when my PMS is over, I can’t stop wondering why the hell I was so gloomy.
    I still do not have a cure for the PMS, exersice helps to some extent but not 100%. So I am very curious how you will come out of the dire straights, which I am sure you will, please share with us when you do, we all need each others help and ispiration.

  298.  #298Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 5:52 am

    Oh yes Labbit and Victoria… see that’s just the thing. Deep down there’s this “knowing”.
    There’s this inner kind of…. “Hmm I know that man is into me.”

    It’s the hormones and the PmS that run rampit. That’s the why the feeling exercise was so important. That feeling of… I lost him. Is not my reality.

    Dig deeper and there’s more this absolute terror that he really does want me, and that I have no control over …. what do I REALLY want??

    That’s the deeper lying message for me. I’m not really worried about the HIM. It’s not about HIM.

    Because of the lean back, I’m getting to the bottom of so many insecurities. It’s a gift. His presence in my life is a gift. His absence is a gift.

    Learning what I learn in the leaning back is a huge gift. More important than whether I get a man or not, for me, is rooting out these bits and pieces of myself that still feel unloved.

    AND, I adore those messages Labbit. I want to tell myself those and really listen, really believe… not just about RRguy but about any guy:
    “What if…he’s really into you and is letting himself feel those feelings before he makes his next move?
    What if…he’s just checking to make sure there’s no one else out there that really stirs him up before he comes back to you, perhaps ready to dive in?
    What if…he’s counting the days until the next time he’s in your town so he can wrap you up in his arms again?”

    It feels like breath of fresh air. I feel refreshed and renewed. And yes, why tell myself the repeated story of my rejection (from any man) ?? Why not allow my mind to get into my REAL Knowing and tell myself the story of my real siren song. Either way, it’s just thoughts. Why not choose the good ones? The ones that make me feel peaceful and soft and relaxed.

    Wonderful Thank you both of you!!! : )

  299.  #299Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 6:01 am

    Andrea, aha.
    I had a huge aha moment reading what you wrote.
    I practically got shivers from it.
    The big, and terrible question is, WHAT DO YOU WANT.
    I have found it that my mind finds it easier to think about what does he want, and how to make him like me, how can I chase him in a way that does not look like chasing, cheating both him and me and I am not chasing him.
    And then, when I see that he really likes me, and I need to do nothing, I feel like SO NOW WHAT.
    I just don’t know.
    I have such great fear of letting him get close to me.
    I would rather be alone that let him get real close to me.
    I am afraid of him, and me, and it is just so much easier to drop back to my old pattern.

  300.  #300Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 6:07 am

    But.. what do you ladies do?

    What is the boundary, or the feeling message to SELF that you use when you finally get it that men are actually truly attracted to YOU. The Real YOU.

    Does anybody else feel kind of a clutching panic?

    How do you relax into the idea that here’s this man who you find absolutely… Wow!! And he shines his energy on you, and you realize, you didn’t work this one, you didn’t chase this one, you didn’t go get this one. You didn’t even hardly flirt. But he wants to be the man who makes you happy.

    ???? That’s where my panic and fear is coming from.

    It’s not just RRguy. I’ve had this happen before. Plenty of times, where a man really let me know that he wanted to be with me for more than the basic things. And it was a man that just made me weak in the knees with attraction and adoration and everything. And I ran him off. I’m more prone to give up very quickly and jump back into my comfort zone.

    How do you just melt into the actual realization that… OH MY GOD, my dreams are coming true, and I didn’t have to work at it. And AND I can’t control it. It’s nothing I’ve done.

    This is what scares me. It’s not just RRguy. Something triggered me on the dating site: It was that actual real quality men were seeking me out. And honestly….. just realizing this from my feelings exercise last night….. that’s what scared the H out of me.

    It’s actually working. I’m actually starting to attract the caliber of men that I’ve always wanted in my life. And it is frightening.

    So… Sirens…. any help here?? Anyone else understand what I’m talking about? What exercises are there for allowing one’s self to accept the glow.

    I’ve always been the one working so hard, shedding all the light on everyone around me, giving all the energy. Now, I have to learn to receive on a deeper level than I ever knew existed. And it’s not about receiving things …. at this level…. It’s about receiving something… deeper, richer, more meaningful…. something…..

  301.  #301Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 6:07 am

    When do these withdrawal symptoms end? Today is 30 days since I have physically seen him or the church. I’ve kept busy with other music and my own practice.

    Then I read the review of the performance. Aargh, definitely got nostalgic, reviewed again why the no. I must have been wavering more than I thought because this morning my last dream was one of those ‘caution danger ahead’ dreams like I had regularly while going through this experience. Glad myself is taking good care of myself!

  302.  #302Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 6:12 am

    I think around 3 months the withdrawal symptoms stop, from most non-lethal addictions (by lethal I mean actual drugs).

  303.  #303Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 6:13 am

    OMG Victoria… that’s EXACTLY what I feel. Exactly!!

  304.  #304Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Great questions, and I do not know the answer, and it still has not happened in my life to be with a man I did not have to work to get.
    Maybe next one.
    With this one, I have had 3 years of overfunctioning and chasing, and I have managed to turn this relationship around only in the last 2-3 weeks.
    And I do not know whether I will choose to keep him in the end, or, seeing him fully for who he is (and who he is not) I might as well choose to let him go.
    I feel very peaceful with my new-found balance.

  305.  #305Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 6:21 am

    To tell you how much I have changed about him.
    He has an important project to finish at work, has been complaing to me about it for a while, his deadline is todays.
    He wanted to see me both yesteday and today, and I declined for both, telling him he needs to focus on his work.
    The truth is, I got a bit bored with him, do not care to see him right now.
    Today he asked to see me, I asked him, “have you finished your homework? You get to play only all homework is done”.
    So, I turned him down twice. I just don’t care :-).

  306.  #306nyx on January 28, 2015 at 6:25 am

    Hi all sirens- firstly- thank you all who responded earlier to me 🙂

    I want to add something about the too-orderly, neat, logical and well-dressed men. I, too, am more easily attracted to those men who are more raw… but I grew up in a part of my country where men do not care much about clothes and looks, thinking it is “too feminine” and seem to think that women should be attracted simply because they are male- yuck. So I find that even though I want a man who is strong on the inside and outside and can handle himself in the woods, I also appreciate men who care for their looks. Love logical guys in general. And I know quite a few guys who seem “too neat and too logical and too detached”- but yes- oceans of feelings underneath. Might just take some time to stir them up to be seen…

    I’ll add that last weekend I had a third date with a guy I was not enthusiastic about at all- I haven’t “felt it” with him. And it was absolutely amazing. Not sure what changed, but suddenly I need to reconsider my whole view of him. Yes, think whether to give those guys an extra chance… 🙂

  307.  #307Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 6:34 am

    Oh Indigo # 282.

    I’m going through kind of the same thing with some out dated CD’s.
    “Marathon Text Guy” (lovergirl named him.. hahah) is one of them.
    And Cowboy Ed is another one.

    I’m realizing that finally it is up to me to be choosy. And I have the right to be.

    I am not attracted to either one of these men. I dated them in the past and both of them left me feeling… unmotivated and uninspired.

    It’s not physical attraction, it’s conversation and more than that, it’s soulful intimacy. It’s.. do our energies mingle in such a way that the space around is better than before. Do we offer each other enough of that synergy that our inner spaces are nourished?

    That doesn’t have to mean romance. It can mean anything.

    But, just like my diet. I used to just accept what I could conveniently get quickly: fast food, quick fatty recipes, high calorie empty nutrients.
    But now, I’m picky. I qualify food items with.. how will this nourish my body? How do I feel just holding this food, looking at it, having it in my fridge, in my space?

    Cowboy Ed does not make me feel good. I choose not to see him. Marathon Texter does not make me feel good. I choose not to see him.

    Here’s what I found out about my diet. The more I chose good high quality foods and recipes, the easier it became to acquire those items. The more I stopped accepting low energy foods, the less I noticed them. I am finding it easier and easier to bypass the convenient fast food joints on my way to work, panicked that I don’t have time for lunch or dinner, and I stumbled upon a smoothie shop kind of hidden in a back street not far away from my work that makes smoothies out of Herbal Life products.

    I feel awesome when I walk in those doors, and awesome when I spend my hard earned money on healthy foods.

    I’m being more picky about men. I used to go on a date because someone asked me to.. as in… give everyone a shot. Now, I’m saying no. I’m kind of too happy on my own.

    And I’m having such an adventure working on…. how to let myself feel the attraction and adoration of high quality men. How to let in the men that I REALLY want.

    I’m attracting them, but now It’s all about…. what do I do with them?

  308.  #308Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 6:35 am


    I love what Labbit has said to you and I AGREE with her, not because I have any idea what is going on with RRGuy – none of us actually know – but because I am in the same place and going through the same thing.

    D and I had a fight and it’s been a week since I’ve spoken to him, and I’m leaning back, feeling all the uncomfortable feelings which come up when you do that, but this time, I’m noticing that they don’t feel as toxic and painful as they did before. Instead of feelings of rejection and not being good enough and all the why’s and the blahs of why doesn’t he contact me and what did I do to push him away… instead I am nourishing myself with positive input and positive thoughts and turning beliefs on their head. And instead of either stuffing or giving into feelings of not being good enough, I am embracing them and feeling kind of compassion for them. And slowly, ever so slowly, as this self-love seeps in, so a feeling of calmness is starting to build up. I believe I am increasing my capacity for love – first from myself. Why do I even need to tell myself a story about why he hasn’t contacted me? Why can’t I let it not be my business and not to worry or wonder why or make it mean anything at all?

    I couldn’t help but notice that at the beginning of my leaning back, how hard my inner self was trying to make him taking space about me being rejected in some way. And the more I love on myself, the more I don’t need to do that. It’s just what men do. It’s not about me condoning the being distant or pretending I’m ok with it, I just realize it has nothing at all to do with my loveableness and to use the time instead to immerse myself in my routines and remind myself that I will be ok no matter what. I am doing my thing and going on dates with other guys and being open to receiving their love and attention… while at the same time tolerating all the uncertainty that comes from leaning back and slathering love on it. It is NOT easy, but it gets easier as you learn this new way of being and I am loving all the realisations and truths which are coming up because I am embracing my loveableness rather than running from it.

  309.  #309Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Andrea 306,

    I love what you’ve said here, and honestly, truly, I love the activities I do on my own and with the already established people in my life to the point that I feel resentful – yes, resentful! – about giving my time and energy away to someone when I’m iffy about whether I’ll enjoy it. I just simply don’t have that need for people and attention which will make me spend time with someone unless it’s really what I want to do.

    After I texted him that maybe he could give me a shout next week and we could do coffee, he texted again asking when was a good time in the day to call. I don’t want to talk to him on the phone.

    What you’ve said here: “It’s not physical attraction, it’s conversation and more than that, it’s soulful intimacy. It’s.. do our energies mingle in such a way that the space around is better than before. Do we offer each other enough of that synergy that our inner spaces are nourished?” Truly, this may sound terribly arrogant, but I felt as if I had made his energy space better, but he had not done the same for me. Contrast with how I felt on Monday night with the guy who took me out to dinner, I felt very nourished by the experience and can’t wait to do it again. So…

  310.  #310Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 6:48 am

    ps. even deleting my account on Plenty of Fish.. all five of the men I felt good about have texted me in the past three days.
    And four of them have called me. All with really wonderful conversations.
    I allowed the phone contact for about ten minutes on each of them and then I cut it off with the excuse that I had to get ready for work.

    Now we’ll see who continues calling. And who asks me out.

  311.  #311Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 6:52 am

    I finally got the book Kosher Lust by Rabbi Boteach. I think I put a check mark on almost every page.

    I could never understand why the Jewish religion had all these ‘weird’ rules on relationships. After reading this book everything makes a lot more sense to me. Even as I squirmed around a lot at the end of the book with what seemed like a lot of restrictions it made sense to me.

    The story of Bruriah was expanded and made sense too. It has happened to me.

    The comment about “dousing the embers of her sexuality”. That happened to me during my marriage and I finally left when the only other outlet was suicide. Then this ‘non-relationship’ recently was oddly going in the same direction. I left the situation completely because I will not be dominated like that again. I am so thankful you put this on your blog. To me it was a godsend.

  312.  #312Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 7:08 am

    I just wrote up this big long post and it went into moderation. :/ I edited out a couple of words that I thought might have put it there and tried to repost. That didn’t help either. :p I feel confused! And anxious, lol, because I wanted to share.

  313.  #313Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Trying one last time- taking out some things…
    My stomach is in knots. My guy called me this morning and asked me to help him sew a button on an item of clothing he sold, because it fell off when he was trying to package it. Obviously, he was planning on more than just button sewing when I came to his place.

    However, I already have a date tonight with this new CD attempt guy that is taking me to the Cheesecake Factory. I couldn’t outright tell my guy that, because after finding out about me sleeping with someone else this weekend, he forbade me to tell him about other men ever again.

    So I just told him that sewing a button on is easy, you can get a sewing kit at the Dollar Tree and he said he guessed he could watch a youtube video on it. I said I kind of have things back to back today and he asked what I was doing. So I just mentioned oh my daughter has speech therapy and then I’m taking my kids to the science center. He was like “but that’s not in the evening” and I just said “yeah….” and kind of let it trail off.

    I could feel his anger just burning through the phone before he hung up. I KNOW he thinks I am going to have sex with someone. I actually wasn’t intending on it, just going on this first date. I felt awful though, that he could be hurt, so I texted him: ” if you want me to come over tonight and do it I can help you”. I know I shouldn’t have, but I felt so bad! He didn’t respond and I’m pretty sure it is because he is still upset.

    I am a mess of feelings. I feel bad, because I don’t want him to feel hurt or disrespected. Then I’m like okay I am not supposed to be worried about HIS feelings. I feel scared, because I don’t want to lose him and I’m scared of making him angry with me. I feel afraid that he will turn instead, to his ex girlfriend or some other woman to help him (which he very well may) and I want to be the one to come to his rescue and sew on the button. Then I remember I’m not supposed to rescue!

    I feel like comforting him, and reassuring him that I am not having sex with a guy. But then, I’m like wait a minute, I don’t owe him that. Then I feel justified and think things like, hey, if he wants me to be there for him all the time, he needs to make me his real girlfriend and not just expect me to act like one.

    I feel foolish for sending him that text, but his anger scared me. I feel worried about how he is feeling and what he is thinking. Then I think, but I am not doing anything wrong.

    I feel scared that if I’m always busy when he tries to ask me to come over, he will give up on me. I feel afraid that he won’t want me to help him with his business anymore if I am not more available. I feel afraid that he will now be angry and want to get revenge by looking for another woman because he feels hurt by me.

    I don’t intend to say anything else to him unless he texts or calls. The urge to reassure him more or say “I am not having sex with anyone” was strong earlier, but I am trying to lean back. I feel afraid he will think badly of me or see me as someone who is just sleeping around all the time and not worth being a girlfriend but really he should know better.

    The problem is that I have basically been in the girlfriend role for several months, even though I haven’t gotten that commitment. So doing things differently feels like a betrayal on my part, to both of us.

  314.  #314Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 7:12 am

    I think I figured out what put it into moderation so I am trying again-

    My stomach is in knots. My guy called me this morning and asked me to help him sew a button on an item of clothing he sold, because it fell off when he was trying to package it. Obviously, he was planning on more than just button sewing when I came to his place.

    However, I already have a date tonight with this new CD attempt guy that is taking me to the Cheesecake Factory. I couldn’t outright tell my guy that, because after finding out about me sleeping with someone else this weekend, he forbade me to tell him about other men ever again.

    So I just told him that sewing a button on is easy, you can get a sewing kit at the Dollar Tree and he said he guessed he could watch a video on it. I said I kind of have things back to back today and he asked what I was doing. So I just mentioned oh my daughter has speech therapy and then I’m taking my kids to the science center. He was like “but that’s not in the evening” and I just said “yeah….” and kind of let it trail off.

    I could feel his anger just burning through the phone before he hung up. I KNOW he thinks I am going to have sex with someone. I actually wasn’t intending on it, just going on this first date. I felt awful though, that he could be hurt, so I texted him: ” if you want me to come over tonight and do it I can help you”. I know I shouldn’t have, but I felt so bad! He didn’t respond and I’m pretty sure it is because he is still upset.

    I am a mess of feelings. I feel bad, because I don’t want him to feel hurt or disrespected. Then I’m like okay I am not supposed to be worried about HIS feelings. I feel scared, because I don’t want to lose him and I’m scared of making him angry with me. I feel afraid that he will turn instead, to his ex girlfriend or some other woman to help him (which he very well may) and I want to be the one to come to his rescue and sew on the button. Then I remember I’m not supposed to rescue!

    I feel like comforting him, and reassuring him that I am not having sex with a guy. But then, I’m like wait a minute, I don’t owe him that. Then I feel justified and think things like, hey, if he wants me to be there for him all the time, he needs to make me his real girlfriend and not just expect me to act like one.

    I feel foolish for sending him that text, but his anger scared me. I feel worried about how he is feeling and what he is thinking. Then I think, but I am not doing anything wrong.

    I feel scared that if I’m always busy when he tries to ask me to come over, he will give up on me. I feel afraid that he won’t want me to help him with his business anymore if I am not more available. I feel afraid that he will now be angry and want to get revenge by looking for another woman because he feels hurt by me.

    I don’t intend to say anything else to him unless he texts or calls. The urge to reassure him more or say “I am not having sex with anyone” was strong earlier, but I am trying to lean back. I feel afraid he will think badly of me or see me as someone who is just sleeping around all the time and not worth being a girlfriend but really he should know better.

    The problem is that I have basically been in the girlfriend role for several months, even though I haven’t gotten that commitment. So doing things differently feels like a betrayal on my part, to both of us. I jokingly told him once that he just wants me for the “girlfriend experience”, the GFE, (like an escort gives). He was like how do you even know what that is?? Lol (I wouldn’t except another guy had told me). Really though, that’s sort of the position I’ve been in- the full girlfriend experience without being a real girlfriend. :p

  315.  #315Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 7:39 am

    @ Indigo 281-

    I really like this: “I love surprises. I feel sure you will choose somewhere lovely.” I will have to use something similar! 🙂

  316.  #316Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Indigo 307,308
    Lost this post, try again.
    Like the ‘soulful intimacy’ comment and is ‘space around better that before. Do we offer each other enough of that synergy that our inner spaces are nourished?’

    That’s what I liked about MusicTd. He is vital and passionate about his music and it shows when he plays. I don’t want someone to just follow me around and be a burden. I would look forward to all the time he spends on his music.

    Now to POF. It seems the guys are not into anything but are waiting for some rich woman to pick them up. Of course not every one. The first one I dated had a passion for photography and it showed.

    This Lawguy seems now to be not interested in any thing and is more and more following my lead in the emails. He has subscribed to all the movie channels so he doesn’t have to go out.

    He seemed to be very defensive about drinking. He described how he took “a nap” after dinner on the couch after several drinks, the dog scarfed up the rest of the food on his plate, ate a paper towel he was using for a napkin and then barfed all over his shirt. he finally woke up to feeling cold and wet. Hmmm.

    Sounds like there is a lot here that isn’t my business. I enjoy our topics but there can be no chance of ‘soulful intimacy’ with such dulling of the senses going on. Getting older is not for ‘sissies’ so I’ve heard and it’s not helped by drugging and junk food. I guess it’s time for the ‘getting bored with email’ post, seeing if he bites. I suppose it’s giving him one more chance and it is practice for me. Any comments?

  317.  #317Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Lovergirl 312,

    Looks like your learning curve is going very well. Congratulations!

    When I first started this stuff and was learning a new way I had all kinds of inner vibes. I am a total caretaker and nuturer. It was so hard to overcome this at first. I am getting better but I remember how I kept thinking I was doing something wrong. My thinking would get confused was this what I was supposed to do or what? I got some coaching and read the posts here and I am improving. Best wishes to you. OH, a Paganinni piece just started. I will enter my swoon state for a few moments.

  318.  #318Indigo on January 28, 2015 at 8:00 am

    Mistea1 314,

    Oh you have a stronger constitution than I have, I would not have been able to listen to the story about the dinner and the dog. I would have felt grossed out and would have retreated into my clean, hygienic little shell!

    It is all about what you want. About learning to express our true feelings to a man without worrying how he will take it. So if you are feeling bored with the emailing (I would be) I would absolutely express that…

  319.  #319Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Annnd…the guy who is supposed to be taking me out tonight just texted asking me to tell him about myself. I felt annoyed, like can’t we talk about that over dinner? I asked him “what would you like to know?” and he said “well what you are looking for would be a good start”. I feel pressured. I feel like he is probably looking for sex and if I don’t seem compliant he may cancel the date. I’m unsure how to respond to the “what are you looking for” question. I can’t very well say, well I am just looking to learn more about myself and practice by dating men…LOL I am thinking something along the lines of “I’m looking to meet new people and see where it goes”?

  320.  #320Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 8:16 am

    I texted him back “hmmm…I guess I would say I am looking to meet new people, see how we feel about each other, and see how it goes”. His response was “well that is kind of vague”. Then he texted right after “are you seeking a more casual relationship, interesting encounters, or long time friends?” I have noooo idea how to respond to that! I feel irritated and pressured! I think I am going to text back “answering that question before I have met someone in person makes me feel very pressured”

  321.  #321Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 8:20 am

    Ahhhhh…. {{{{Indigo}}}} #307
    Yes,,, embracing MY lovableness!!
    Him (whom ever that may be)
    NOT contacting ME has NOTHING
    to do with weather I am lovable OR NOT!!!

    YOUR post is beautiful… so much
    Self Love!!! Ahhh… i feel a warm, spring breezy freshness…
    oxoxo Thank you for this Siren Song!!!

  322.  #322Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 8:34 am

    when you wrote “I feel scared that I might loose him”
    a lightbulb went on in my heart!!!!

    If holding my boundaries is causing him to feel mad or unhappy…
    It feels good for me to acknowledge those feelings of feeling SCARED I might loose him!!!!…
    Ohhh… darling Azure…
    I will hold you when you feel scared… I will wrap my warm, strong arms around YOU and huggggg YOU!

    I love ME the MOST… so I want to honor MY boundaries in a clear and warm way…
    Yes… he may go away…
    BUT he adores ME… He thinks I’M amazing
    and the ONLY way “any man” can stay in MY life is if
    I LOVE ME the MOST!!!

  323.  #323Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 8:51 am

    Andrea #299
    Holy Molly Girl…
    This is soooo much of where I am…
    To actually acknowledge a wonderful man DOES Like/Love ME!!!

    After reading this post… this Siren Song so beautiful in your vulnerable, authentic melody…
    I can see another Brick walll i put up so Mr. Right CANT get closer… I am trying to gently take away each brick one by one and MAYBE (ohhhh I want to sooo badly) let someone close
    BUT WAIT… I can’t let anyone closer

    I can feel what I have been practicing with Spirit…
    letting his love in and me trying to be open and
    melty… I’ve NEVER done this before…
    but to also Acknowledge that HE DOES LOVE ME
    HE does ADORE ME, He Does know how AMAZING
    I AM!!!

    You wrote….
    “I’ve always been the one working so hard, shedding all the light on everyone around me, giving all the energy. Now, I have to learn to receive on a deeper level than I ever knew existed. And it’s not about receiving things …. at this level…. It’s about receiving something… deeper, richer, more meaningful…. something…..”

  324.  #324Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Yes, it is all about what I want isn’t it. It is more clear to me with these posts that I want the same thing for me that I want in the Cds.
    I liked MusicTd because of his passion, the photog for his passion. Well, I better get my passion in gear and start showing it.

    I deleted the POF account. Will email Lawguy next.

    I found a new activity. A new place to have discussions on philosophy and they are offering a free intro class. I have started with the choir at new church. The local community orchestra has invited me to join them (flute). I still have my writing to get published. Want to accept some work I’ve been offered. A woman at new church likes organ too and we are planning lunch time excursions to places around town that she knows about. MusicTd who?

  325.  #325Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 8:55 am

    Ohhh… gee… I can feel the emotional intimacy muscles tearing and wanting to expand…
    THIS is WHAT I WANT!!! Sooo exciting and I can love myself thru this!!!
    Ahhh… Siren Island… I am sooo luck yo be here with all of you… Thank you forever!!!

  326.  #326Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 8:57 am

    receiving all their love and attention… ACTUALLY opening MY HEART and RECEIVING what they are WANTING to GIVE me
    that is sooo wonderful but wow… overwhelming right now…

  327.  #327Moon on January 28, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Dear Sirens,

    I read and enjoy everyone of your posts. The leaning back sometimes is sooo hard to do.

    So, here is my update. My ex and I have the same group of friends, that is how we met, we were friends for 6 years before we got together. Since I stalked him on Facebook I’ve been feeling sad, angry, frustrated, powerless, been crying at night, eventhough we do keep in touch (at this point, I don’t know if I should just cut him off). He contacted me on Sunday.Now, one of our common friends is moving to another city and she wants us to get together on Friday, in my Ex’s restaurant. I do want to go, but I feel my vibe is so low right now. I haven’t seen him in 2 months, so I’m very nervous and anxious. I would love to hear what tools do you think would help me to feel better, to change this low vibration I got right now.

    Thank you Sirens!

  328.  #328Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 9:00 am

    I wrote:
    “BUT WAIT… I can’t let anyone closer
    But How do I do that… I thought I AM doing that…
    what is the next step…???
    suggestions darling Sirens?

  329.  #329Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 9:20 am

    Ahhh YES… the Rori tools
    The unzipping, leaning back tools…

    THEY are MAGIC…
    had a first date last night… very nice guy…
    He was smart, warm, good looking… we were having a nice conversation back and forth – NOT just HIM talking!!
    I realized I was leaning forward (literally)
    I leaned back… opened up my heart and unzipped it…
    his eyes softened, his voice got warmer,,, he started saying what a good time he was having and could we see each other again…
    It was a LOVELY first date!!

  330.  #330Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Azure blu,

    I thought the bridge tool Rori has, helped me get clearer. When I looked inside to find what it meant to be on my bridge I had to rummage through a bunch of things and make some decisions. Values I hold play a part. What are they for me?

    With all this I still have those times of withdrawal when even with my logic I still would throw over everything if he would but beckon. I suppose this keeps me humble 🙂 Victoria thinks a good timeline for withdrawal may be 3 months. One down two to go.

  331.  #331Victoria on January 28, 2015 at 10:19 am

    I am thinking/hoping that with the right man we will not have to worry whats next. With him, the pieces of the puzzle will just fall into place. You will not have to be taking down your walls, they will fall into the puzzle. Am I expecting too much?
    With F., I have reached the point in which he is predictable to me. I know when he will call, what he will say. My anguish and anxiety are gone. I recognize when he is sulking and when he is truly busy… I am just sitting back and smiling to myself. I am so happy i overcame the withdrawal symptoms, i can sit like this forever doingnothing and smiling to myself

  332.  #332Labbit on January 28, 2015 at 10:49 am

    299 Andrea — I think for you, the key will be learning to accept all of this as NORMAL. A guy wanting to give you everything and do everything for you? Normal. A guy wanting to spend all of his time with you? Normal. A man who wants to commit to you for life and make all of your dreams come true as he leads you up the bridge to happily ever after. NORMAL. Not special. Not a big deal. Happens to you all the time, lovely lady.

    The moment you pedestal a guy it’s over — not because of anything inside of you but because your energy, your behaviors will change. You’ll start acting like he’s the Prize but he’s not, YOU ARE. Right now for some reason I can tell you still don’t think you’re good enough to get forever love, that you have to suffer to get it, that you have to earn it some way. (And I can tell because umm, I have these same qualities!)

    Really really really the magic is in focusing on YOU. YOU are the only one who gets a pedestal. There is only first place and it belongs to Andrea. There ain’t no second or third. Men LOVE this. You need to start by accepting your own love — the Higher Andrea inside of you that keeps yelling NEWSFLASH ANDREA YOU’RE AWESOME. At every point of a relationship. You meet a guy? You’re awesome. You’re intimate with him? You’re awesome. He asks you for exclusivity? You’re awesome. And so on and so on.

    If I were you, I’d visualize myself up on a pedestal whatever that means to you. Maybe you’re an Olympian and your man places a medal on you and gives you flowers as the National Anthem plays. Maybe you’re a Greek Goddess and your man comes to leave tributes at your feet. Mine is a dream of being an Egyptian Goddess up on a stone table of soft rugs, surrounded by men cooling me with leaves, while men I’m attracted to walk by and try to catch my eye in increasingly desperate ways. Every time you catch yourself feeling like OMG this man likes me this is so scary and I have to do something to keep him, PEDESTAL yourself.

    It’s all about feeling strong inside so you can stay collected yet warm on the outside. It’s about treating every man like you like him but HE’S NO BIG DEAL. It’s about NEVER letting a man know that he’s won you over. You are a lifetime challenge for him and he will cherish every second of that.

    Some other tools that might help: waterwheel tool, the 100 men tool (I think this is in Reconnect Your Relationship?), out the window tool.

  333.  #333Labbit on January 28, 2015 at 10:56 am

    312 Lovergirl honestly when I read this post all I feel is drama. :/ Are you sure this isn’t all just for attention? Because I think there are a million other ways you could have handled letting your guy know you aren’t available tonight but you chose the way that you knew would set him off. I think you are treating him the same way you treat yourself, which is very little love and a lot of self-loathing turned outwards.

    As long as you’re unsure what you want your outer world is going to present that right back to you. If you don’t know whether you want a committed relationship or an open one that’s totally OK, you can take all the time you need to CD and decide. But I don’t think you understand that the love and intimacy and all of those things do not mesh with open relationships. Open relationships by default keep true intimacy at arms’ length.

    In the meantime though from the comments you’ve posted here it seems like you’re working very hard to prove yourself unlovable. If I were you I’d ask myself why you feel this way, and that’s where I’d go first. You deserve as much love as you want and can handle.

  334.  #334Labbit on January 28, 2015 at 11:03 am

    326 Azure Blu — How wonderful this all is! The next step is you keep opening up bit by bit. You challenge yourself and trust yourself enough to let someone in to see the real authentic you a little further, and then a little further, before you need to back off because you can’t take it.

    Your authentic self by the way is the leaned-back, open, warm, inviting, confident you. The self that doesn’t give or overfunction because she knows her worth. The self that radiates out love and lets anyone she trusts (which should be nearly everyone) to come get close and shower themselves in her radiant light.

    And then when you need to, take your ‘me’ time. As much of it as you need. At first you might need a LOT of me time and that’s totally cool. Just don’t shut yourself down totally. Don’t run away from all the intense feelings that you will feel being open all the time. Make a small space in your heart for those intense feelings, let them come in and touch you, and then YOU tell them whether they get to stay or if they have to take a cookie and go off somewhere else.

    The feelings will get intense and then they will subside. You’ll feel calm more often than not. You’ll feel light pouring out of you in all directions. Then another rush — you’ll feel a bit pushed back but now you’re strong enough to stay open through it, FEEL the intense feelings coming at you and find your calm center again.

    This is a very similar place to where I’m at. Every time intimacy rushes at me my mind screams AAAHHHHHHHHHHH! But each time it’s getting easier to stay open, let it in, let Tender touch my heart. And then in those moments when the fear, the gremlins race at me, I listen to them for a moment, give them space and allow them to flow through my body like any other emotion. But I don’t wallow in them — they only get a limited amount of time before it’s time to move on to something that feels better.

  335.  #335Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @334 Labbit-

    I feel bewildered. I have no idea what ways I could have handled things without setting him off. I was actually woken from sleep when he called on his way to work and just went with answering the way I did. I guess I’m new at this and I just don’t get it. There is some way I could answer without causing drama? I do not feel that I am wanting “attention”. I feel clueless.

    I am not sure I agree that open relationships are bad for intimacy. I have seen some people in long term open relationships who seem to have a handle on it and be very close. Granted, I am on the outside looking in, but I’m not sure yet…that is why I am still exploring.

    I am confused as to how anything I have posted implies that I am “working hard to prove myself unlovable”. I am curious to find out.

  336.  #336Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 11:45 am

    Labbit 330,

    I like what you said very much.
    Whatever, we are awesome!

    My fantasy is that I am the Goddess of Music. I am sitting on a beautiful upholstered chair on a pedestal. The open window on the other side has trees that encourage beautiful birds to sing. There are diaphanous materials floating on the airs. Stars sparkle from the ceiling and the moon floats in a corner.

    Whenever a man appears to get my boon the finest instrument that he plays is also in the room. In order for him to progress to the master class and to me, he must play/sing such a song that penetrates deeply into my heart, mind, soul, and body. The notes must flow from beauty like liquid silver, spark the very air and shimmer rainbow colors.

    If the man doesn’t play an instrument whatever he is passionate about and shows to me must create the same effect. in the end it is all about beauty. I am beauty and can only attract beauty. I am the deep listener who sees and hears into their very soul.

    Of course, as Goddess of Music there are times when woman and children have their turn to approach my chair and they too can go on to their Master class.

    As far as music goes there are more professional musicians now than ever before. However, there are about the same handful that make the cut to Master Class as there has always been.

    This was fun. Thanks a bunch.

  337.  #337Izzy on January 28, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    Victoria, FW and Indigo, thank you for your feedback. I didn’t send the message and haven’t heard from him. Just keep going….

  338.  #338Azure Blu on January 28, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Labbit #332
    It feels sooo wonderful when you shine your Siren light on me…
    Thank you..
    I have pasted and copied all that you have so lovingly shared… i will want to savor and ponder on all of it…

  339.  #339Beloved on January 28, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Oh, sirens…
    so, Aviator CD texted me to confirm our date for tomorrow, which was takeout and Netflix at his place.
    This would be date 3 – and right after I agreed to this date, I felt regret and vowed to tell him, the next time he contacted me. Which was today, and I did, I said, I don’t feel comfortable meeting at your place just yet, can we do something else?

    After class I see he has said, sorry about the lag, busy day today, sure that works, you pick the place, food again? ..and some stuff about game development meetup group stuff he is working on.

    I haven’t responded, because I’m working through my thoughts and feelings about this.
    In Love Scripts, Rori says, if he wants us to pick a place, just say what would feel good.
    Which, I can do…and…yet, I’m feeling uncertain whether I want to keep dating this guy.
    HE ended our last date when he was done with his food. I felt sort of startled and shocked.
    Plus, he seemed super uncomfortable even hugging me. I don’t feel this guy is really all that attracted to me, I don’t feel desired.

    Should I just say that? Instead of worrying about whose picking what place, just say, hey, I don’t feel very sexy or desired and I feel uncertain whether to see you tomorrow. I don’t want to feel like I’m chasing or the one keeping things going, I don’t know what to do, what do you think?

    We haven’t chatted or texted or anything between dates.
    He IS freshly, and I mean FRESHLY divorced, like I think the ink was drying on the papers on our first date and he was helping his ex pack and move to another state with their kids.
    And, I don’t want to dwell on that so much as I want to focus on, is this working for me, and how can I practice my Rori tools and skills?

  340.  #340Beloved on January 28, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    My sense is, if I just don’t respond for a while, he might actually come up with a date plan, I just caught him with a change in the middle of him doing something else.

  341.  #341April Rose on January 28, 2015 at 2:48 pm


    I love this!

    “It’s about treating every man like you like him but HE’S NO BIG DEAL. It’s about NEVER letting a man know that he’s won you over. You are a lifetime challenge for him and he will cherish every second of that.”

  342.  #342April Rose on January 28, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    To add to the talk about great men coming towards us.

    This is what I want.

    Yet….yet…. I am SO enjoying being single. I am having a ball. Discovering men through meetups and dance classes, where I can have all the practice in the world without anyone coming too close!

    After the speed dating I went out with one man, and he seemed very keen. I felt a strong attraction to him, to the point where I worried about going out with him again. The reason being my body! It wants to have sex! I, on the other hand, don’t want to rush into anything with my heart and emotions until I am sure about a man.

    Dating seems to move things so fast. You go out and have a few dates, and then you kind of have to decide if you’re going to have sex or not. In the past, once I’ve had sex I felt like I was on a speeding train… and suddenly I’m in a monogamous relationship with … wait for it ….someone who turns out SEVERAL YEARS later to be the wrong man.

    This is what makes me hesitate.

  343.  #343Zia on January 28, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    It has taken me a year, but I finally feel secure and confident in myself that my boyfriend won’t run away from me for expressing my feelings and being authentic. And it’s not even about marriage being on the table (he has brought it up and we’ve discussed it a few times now), rather how he handles things as they come up in our relationship. He’s a rock.

  344.  #344Zia on January 28, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    And also, I notice now that when I lean back, it’s not about wanting a specific outcome or playing games (as it was with my ex). Rather, I lean back because I know I need to tend to myself, and because I don’t want to contact him or communicate with him when I’m feeling angry, or anxious, or upset, or critical. It’s all about me and nothing about him. It’s amazing to finally get to this place where it’s not just a theory and work to do, but just something that happens naturally 🙂

  345.  #345Andrea on January 28, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    LABBIT!!! Love it Sooooo much!! Thank you. Okay, I really feel like I’ve been handed my.. “This is your mission, should you choose to accept it.” wake up call!!

    Thank you. Yes. I accept. (I feel scared. This is new territory. I feel confident… I’ve been through new territory successfully before.)

  346.  #346Zia on January 28, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    I just read a post in one of the fb groups I am a member of, where someone was “testing” her husband by leaving a few things strategically placed around the house to see how long it takes for him to notice them and put them in their right spots. Like empty boxes and dirty washing. I was like – wow. Really? This is important? I tried to share my view which was asking why does it matter, he probably don’t see it with the same importance as you do, what is the point? Why not focus on what he DOES do in the household? Amazing to think how much my view on men and relationships has changed over the past few years and I cannot thank Rori enough for starting that journey.

  347.  #347Zia on January 28, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    And then the other women chiming in and talking about how it will never get done until you yell at him etc etc. Feels so icky to me.

  348.  #348Gemini Goddess on January 28, 2015 at 3:27 pm


    Maybe give him another chance? He IS coming toward you, and you’re getting good practice right now. He’s probably totally unsure how to behave, not that that matters as far as how you feel around him, but if it helps think of it this way, being freshly divorced he REALLY needs the practice too (I speak from experience being divorced),so there is definitely no harm.

    As for what to say, I’m not the greatest at framing it just like the scripts, but I’d write, “Hi! Feels good to hear from you, and glad to hear your “bla bla” is “bla bla” (some reference to his project). I appreciate you understanding about tomorrow. I haven’t had Thai in awhile. What do you think?”

    BTW-Good for you for waiting until you’re ready to communicate. No hurry…ever. 🙂

    Good luck!

  349.  #349Lotus on January 28, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Labbit – thanks for coming to my scrambled text rescue.. yes I need to keep it light and sweet, and not heavy information overload, phew!! The guy who I’m not into texted back asking me to let him know if I want to see him again, and I feel bad… I’d prefer to tell someone in person but that wouldn’t make sense on a date, to go on a 5th/6th date with someone I’m not into and then let them down. Should I let him down by text or if he calls me?

    I’m now wondering if this guy’s clompy energy is reflective of my own, the way I’m not focused on dating or my marriage, my peaks and troughs of energy.. maybe I’m over-analysing.

  350.  #350Beloved on January 28, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Gemini Goddess – something about your response just touches my heart. I just don’t know the area and don’t want to get into looking it up and planning and stuff, and I’m imagining if I say that, he’s going to assume or expect me to do that.
    I left my phone upstairs and am trying to focus on homework for now 🙂

  351.  #351Lotus on January 28, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Dear Victoria – 285
    Thank you for your message and for hearing me. Yes a dear friend of mine tells me that people do divorce and get back together, that out of ashes comes rebirth… I do wonder about the journey that such couples go through. It’s interesting to hear about your parents and your best friend. I have heard a saying that life is short and marriage is long…, so really for a lifetime, 2 years apart is nothing….
    And yes, you coined it right… I’ve been going through a phase of feeling free, and it felt amazing to date again, to see what’s out in the pond, and I would find it very hard to devote myself to one man now, although the right man would be a different story. I do feel single, much better than feeling like a wife without a husband. I married at 30 but was with my H since 21, so yes have been with him my whole adult life!
    Since reading your post, I’ve had in my head all morning ‘sow my wild oats’… haha because that’s how I’ve been feeling, yet also battling… this urge to bond with someone.. which is why I’m trying to cocoon myself. There’s a part that just wants to go wild, yet I just need to feel my way through as I’m probably more vulnerable than I realise… although I know I’m also very resilient. Does anyone else feel like this? I guess it’s part of coming out of a long relationship, yet I’m wary I don;t want to feel attached to anyone so easily.

    April Rose – your post resonated with me about having sex with a guy. The first person I slept with was my H, and we were in a 16 year relationship and married… the second guy well.. he was a wonderful sticky plaster during my separation, and recently I find myself wanting a lover but I daren’t play with that passion flame right now… until I sort out my decisions around my H… and on the flip side I just think do nothing, be by myself… honour myself.

    I realise I’m writing about CDing and my marriage… feels like flipping a coin, hope it doesn’t come across like that.

  352.  #352April Rose on January 28, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    I love the new verb you’ve invented Labbit – ‘pedestal yourself’. It’s great cos it is so visual. I am going to go in the bath now and visualise my pedestal. Mmm, I’m thinking it might be gold or bronze, with dusky pink trailing roses winding around it. 🙂

  353.  #353Gemini Goddess on January 28, 2015 at 3:49 pm


  354.  #354April Rose on January 28, 2015 at 3:50 pm


    I feel a lot of compassion for what you are going through.

    May you be guided by your deepest most loving self.

  355.  #355Lotus on January 28, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Andrea 299 – I was wondering if you do meditative activities to calm the voices down..? When I feel overwhelmed with my emotions, triggers and doubts I find it helpful to challenge those critical voices and fears, and I find physically writing them down with answers too, starts to overwrite things, like trying to reprogram things.. and looking at the root of it.
    I’ve found it so nourishing to be told I’m beautiful through CDing, especially since my mum used to tell me that although people complimented her on her pretty daughter, she didn’t think I was pretty. And now looking through my photos, I see I was a smiley, happy and mostly pretty child; and I’ve really grown to believe I am beautiful inside and outside. You have to really believe it yourself and tell yourself, catch yourself in the mirror and flirt… let the men’s attention and compliments be a reflection of your beauty, and just soak it up like sunshine.

    To help you feel more relaxed for dates and attention from men, how about imagine you are sunbathing, maybe even floating on a lilo in a pool, not using your muscles, just feeling relaxed and calm, and feel the warm rays of the sun on your skin, on your body, and you are smiling.. and breathe through the sensation that good positive energy is on you. Be in your body, feel yourself relaxing. The more you’re in your body, the less your head will be asking questions, that’s the fear talking, the critical voice. I’ve found having baths with visualisations help me, I even use an ocean wave sound with binaural beats to make me feel zoned out. Apparently, our brain doesn’t know the difference between visualisations and real experiences, that’s if we can really use our imagination to create the feelings and bodily sensations we want to create.

  356.  #356Dixie on January 28, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Labbit 331 -Thank you for your lovely words! You don’t know how perfectly timed that was. It was the little engine boost I needed today…

    I’ve been feeling NV, pesky gremlins, but very real gremlins today. Yesterday D. was so sweet and attentive and…… that’s when all my old fears and worries climbed right out from inside me, and sat on my head, like a giant, bullyish, sly, tabby cat, swishing a tail, sitting right on my head.

    This is what it said: “This is an imaginary relationship and you are not good enough for him. There is probably even an old female friend in the shadows, lurking, and maybe you are just like his bookmark, not really part of his story, but just available when he wants to take a break from his own life, until the “real” person he wants comes onto the scene.”

    Ouch! The fact is that he’s been leaning forward, and even though I’ve been leaning back so well (kudos the lessons from you all :), I can sometimes feel myself leaning forward, and then it feels…. yuck. Ick.

    And then, and then, and then, I did something that makes me feel soooo embarrassed and yucky that I need to get it out here because…. well. He’s a big social media sort of person, and I am not, but he does have an ex who is not quite out of the picture, so it feels. He told me years ago that it was done, but she is posting very flirtatious photos and posts and comments, and today… I peeked. And my stomach twisted into a pretzel.

    He says he loves me, he’s doing the leaning in, and then here I am, feeding my own fears, when I should be holding my lean back dance position.

    Indigo, you asked on another thread if I was CDing. Not right now, but I was in the fall, when D was out of the picture. I’m thinking it would be a good idea because these NV around this same old issue have got to pack their bags and leave – stat!

    And now (boy, am I venting today), even if anyone else is leaning forward towards him, who cares. Really, right? Who cares. Because my Forever Man -whoever he is- is the one who will keep leaning in and reaching towards my sweet, sometimes awkward, Sireny self, even if every single other non-Sireny women is leaning soooooooo far forward towards him that her nose touches the floor.

    And that is why I am officially going to put the NV to bed for the night, and as Labbit put so eloquently, go sit myself, not any man, especially not D., on my little pedestal. 🙂

    (Boy, these boards help SO much, lol!)

  357.  #357Beloved on January 28, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    Aaaand now that I came down to the kitchen to study, my housemate decides to pull out the guitar in the next room and proceed to be a sexy, guitar-playing motherf*cker…
    my palms are sweating.
    This does not suck.

  358.  #358Cutie on January 28, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Dixie, I love your post, your description of the tabby cat swishing a tail and the bookmark. Very powerful!

  359.  #359Beloved on January 28, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    He told me I got him all inspired to play, he hasn’t played for months and now he’s playing electric guitar….all I asked him was if he miked his drum kit and if he gated his mics and…wow…
    turned on right now.
    I feel like the luckiest woman on the planet.
    I am so.
    Happy happy happy HAPPYthankyoumoreplease!!!

  360.  #360April Rose on January 28, 2015 at 4:44 pm


    I am riding high on your joy.
    Loving your posts, and looking out for you on the blog cos you make me feel great.
    You deserve this happiness, lady.

  361.  #361Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    To all those separated and divorced,
    Depending on your outlook this is either a funny story or a cautionary tale.

    Upon my divorce after 25 years I spent about 5 years playing around, great fun. I did not get attached as far as i can remember. I had great sex, and not so great sex. After a bit it occurred to me that many of these resembled my ex in temperament if not ethnic group and education. I stopped dating. I figured that there must be something that I needed to learn, figure out etc. Why go back and repeat same old, same old. yuck.

    I have had therapy, read books, went to workshops etc, etc., prayed and meditated to change my self. Fast forward 20 years or so.

    I move back to the same area of the country to be near family. The first guy who was attracted to me was MusicTd. He is almost an exact clone of my ex right down to the ethnic group. He is like my ex on steroids. He makes my ex look like a rank amateur in the difficulty department. The only difference is MusicTd is from the “old country’ and my ex was American born.

    By the time I realized this I had already been majorly hooked on the music experience. Aaargh!! Yuck, yuck. I knew my problems had not been solved.

    I contacted every helper I’ve ever known including a psychotherapist friend in Australia. I live in the US. I did extensive EFT, writing,counseling etc.,etc. I discovered at least 3 major issues that I had not taken care of. Father abandonment, trust, and a big one involving music and my father. I’ve had major dreams frequently about helpers, cautionary dreams, instructive dreams and good friends and of course this blog.

    I used my attraction, repulsion to MusicTd to highlite these and worked so hard over the last 6 months to take care of them. I NEVER want to go through this again.

    The last one came up after MusicTd had left for his concert tour. Then the dreams stopped. I’m hoping if there is anything left I will be able to handle it without involving him as happened while he was gone.
    Learn your lessons well, ladies so you don’t have to repeat the same experiences over and over again.

  362.  #362Lotus on January 28, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Mistea – thank you so much for sharing your story… although it kinda scares the heck out of me, and it’s what I’ve been scared of, that despite divorcing my H, I could end up with him in another man of a different form – yet I know I’ve evolved lots, I guess i just have to be on my journey and keep an open mind, and keep desiring to be with a happy healthy man who has his s* together, or less s* than me.

    It’s funny, when I felt so lucky with my H, I used to compare him to my dad, so giving and selfless as my dad was devoted to my mum, yet when it was really bad, he’s nothing like my dad, although repression comes to mind. As my dad is deaf, and I had a fractured childhood as I was quite emotionally neglected by my mum, I realise I’m probably attracted to quite ‘difficult’ people and get triggered when I don’t feel heard, which links back to my dad being deaf.

    So far none of the guys I’ve been attracted to or CD’d are alpha like my H.. so that’s been quite refreshing so far… I like the hybrid males – a bit more sensitive and emotionally aware, not afraid to express their emotions more.

  363.  #363lovetodance on January 28, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    i had a powerful affirming experience with feeling messages today…one of the things i do in my life is being a massage therapist….

    i have done massage for many years….both men and women….maybe there has been a handful of times when a man has crossed a boundary…

    today a young man came in…i could have been his mom i am sure….he is someone who saw the same therapist for years there and now she has gone full time with her own practice so is no longer there….

    anyhow this is the first time we met….this massage spa is purely ‘therapuetic ‘in the sense that it is no happy ending place…

    the upshot was that i started feeling all these sexual feelings….and i was not attracted to him..it just was in the room…and then he started pulling the sheets further down to expose his lower back more and asked me to work more on his lower back and legs…i did that but feeling more and more uncomfortable…as to what was going on…

    i had him turn onto his back
    …he was now opening his eyes and looking at me at different points and positioning his legs in a very open manner…

    i thought i have to nip this now…so to speak..when this happens and it has happened so rarely in my career..my fear is what if i am just imagining this…am i projecting….what if i say something and he gets indignant….what do i say….

    because of studying these tools and reading the blog…i feel in am refining in such a powerful way…
    it didn’t matter what he did or didn’t feel….I FELT uncomfortable!

    the next time he opened his eyes to look at me i asked Whats going on ?

    he looked startled and said ‘nothing, why?’
    i said ‘I feel uncomfortable….’

    and he said ‘i’m sorry’….
    that was that…he calmed down…stopped looking at me…the energy completely changed in the room

    we actually exchanged some ‘real’ conversation…as in he told me some things about his family, he asked me about mine…it was creepy and then sweet….

    i know he is a young man with all what ever his stuff is around sexuality and fantasys and all that… i get that and thats fine….just not on my dime so speak

    what i want to express is how much i honored myself, how easy it was to say how i felt….and that was the most important thing for me….and of course having an outcome that wasn’t traumatic helped….

  364.  #364Mistea1 on January 28, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    Lotus 361,

    There’s all different levels of this stuff. Being aware is the first step.

    A long time ago I asked the universe to just give it to me straight. So far so good.

    Congrats on your awareness!

  365.  #365Lovergirl on January 28, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    I just came back from meeting the man I have been texting with at the Cheesecake Factory. We had a lovely date! I was very pleasantly surprised and am glad I went, despite the things I was imagining over text.

    He was a perfect gentleman and did not pressure me in any way or even go for a kiss. We ended the date with a hug. I can tell, however that he is very interested.

    My fears about him being married and his tales about the cousin seem to be false alarms. From the way he talked over dinner, I felt his stories were much more believable. He mentioned his cousin a lot and told me the name of the restaurant and where it is located. He talked enough about his divorce that I feel like it seems legit.

    I did a lot of practicing my listening and leaning back skills. I am naturally a good listener and good at getting people to open up and talk to me, so that part was fairly easy, but I did catch myself leaning forward a lot and made a point to consciously lean my body back a bit.

    He told me that he never opens up to people and talks this much, so I feel like it was “working”. He repeatedly told me how gorgeous he thinks I am and said he couldn’t stop looking at me. Sometimes I think when guys say this it is a bit of overkill, but he seemed sincere, so I graciously accepted his comments.

    When I got home I texted “thank you again for a lovely dinner. 🙂 It felt really nice talking with you. I was pleasantly surprised.” He said that he didn’t want it to end (we only spent an hour together) and that he would enjoy seeing me again. He said he felt we have great communication and that is how he connects.

    Anyway, he does live in another state, but he will be here this week and then back again, and doesn’t seem to find it a big deal to fly here when he wants. He clearly is doing well financially so that is always a plus.

  366.  #366Emerson on January 28, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Hi Sirens,
    So great reading all your comments and learning about your journeys, feeling messages and dates!!!

    I’ve taken a break from the dating site for now…ugh I went on like 5 dates in about a week and a half and they were all one date wonders….

    I liked one of the guys but never heard back from him. Not worried about it though. I feel so at peace in my own company right now, but I do really want to find someone who can be my life partner. I still feel open to it.

    I have some friends who think I would be a good match with one of their friends, and I said I feel open to being friends/meeting and see what happens, but since then I haven’t heard anything further. We shall see.

    I also have a slight crush on a co-worker (don’t I always??!!) but i doubt it will go anywhere.

    I am enjoying being in my own company and really took some time to be with family over the holidays and just appreciate that. It feels good.

    I also feel good about my future even though I will have to switch jobs soon because my contract is ending, and it feels a little scary and uncertain. I feel a little scared about it, I have a lot of student loans and bills!! Somehow I know it’s all going to work out though….

  367.  #367Millie on January 29, 2015 at 2:11 am

    Ladies I met a man who makes me feel amazing!
    I didn’t have much hope for him at first, but once we met…my whole opinion of him changed! Since our first date, he’s contacted me every day! So, for a solid month now! I feel so proud of myself being authentic with him, putting myself FIRST, and asserting boundaries,and he has responded beautifully. He’s so communicative with his feelings and really listens to me when I express mine. Days later he will bring it up again and initiate a conversation about feelings! He’s my age, 27! His emotional maturity and relationship capability astounds me considering I’ve been hanging around with guys in their early 40s. What was I thinking?! haha, The best part is I’m finally experiencing being with a man and not DOING anything! I’m just me and he LOVES it! It’s so great to finally experience this…what being desired and “loved” for who I am in my own skin. No make up on, not trying, not chasing, just sitting there smiling and welcoming of him. The waterfall is flowing towards me like Niagara Falls! In the back of my mind I keep preparing for him to withdraw, for him to lose interest, or to find out he’s full of you know what….but after a solid month, there has been none of that. He’s extremely consistent, which is what I really need, I’ve realized. I feel radiant in his waterfall yet at the same time and not giving too much of my feelings…I’m not rushing…I’m not pushing him…I’m not losing myself in this. And, I have to say that I never realized how easy it should be and how easy it is now…to embrace myself and feel solid in who I am and experience what it feels like to have someone who is “into” me and not have to work for it. To not constantly be in a state of anxiety when I’m dating someone. I thought that was my norm and now I see it isn’t. Christian Carter talks about the roles of the resistor and the convincer in a relationship and how it works best when the masculine is the convincer and the feminine is the resistor and also how your man will enjoy being in a relationship with you if he enjoys the role he plays. In this case, he is definitely the convincer…always wanting to see me…and I am the resistor, not because I do not want to see him, but because I have other things on my plate and I control when I see him. I’m the less available one. He’s very masculine energy which I’m adoring, he cooked for me when I was sick, picked me up from work when my car was in the shop, always pays, carries my bags, pays for my parking, and genuinely wants me to be happy! He’s future talking and has removed his online profile and told me he isn’t seeing anyone else and is segueing just dating into more…I feel really excited to see where this goes and to keep growing! Yay! just wanted to share!

  368.  #368Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 2:34 am

    thank you for sharing this wonderful experience of yours, it is so pleasant to hear your positivism and to be reminded how easy it can be!

  369.  #369Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 2:40 am

    I need to vent and complain a little bit.
    My F. has such a big problem with time management. He has this project at work that he should have finished yesteday, and apparently, today he is not ready, and most probably will not be ready tomorrow either. I just spoke on the phone with him, and he is so full of excuses, how his collegues and his boss sabotaged him, and this and that, and he was working on it until 3 am, and it is still not finished.
    I was listening sympathetically, but this is such a turn-off for me. He is always late for everything, for everything. Of course, I did not say a word of criticism, just listened, and ohh-ed, so now I just need to vent out my frustration.
    I love this man, but I see that his tardiness is such an obstacle in his life. And I know it is not for me to fix, and not for me to mother him, and I am making such a great effort to contain myself, and say nothing, and just get busy with my own life. Uhhhh.

  370.  #370Indigo on January 29, 2015 at 3:02 am


    I am so thrilled to hear this update from you! 🙂

  371.  #371Indigo on January 29, 2015 at 3:10 am


    I do not want to trigger you even more, but there is probably nothing that triggers me more than a man being late.

    Even if he calls or texts me and apologises, I feel so angry and find it so hard to forgive. This probably has to do with something going back to my childhood where my mother was always, always late. Time after time I would sit around waiting for her half an hour, an hour or even more after she said she’d be there. I felt the sting of how much it hurt and humiliated me when other mothers had picked up their kids and I was the only one still waiting there by myself, unable to offer any reason or excuse, just that my mother was unable to be on time. Years and years of this. I am sure this plays a part, but it has made me into a person who always respects the time I have agreed with someone else absolutely. And, I feel a loss of respect for a man when he cannot keep time. It’s funny, there are other things I find much easier to tolerate, but this one is difficult…

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express this! By the way, I really admire how you don’t say anything to him but bring your feelings to the blog instead.

  372.  #372Zia on January 29, 2015 at 3:28 am

    Labbit – #258 – LOVE this. I feel the exact same way as you 🙂 And the more the dances continue, the less stuff the triggers bring up….

  373.  #373Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 4:26 am

    You are not triggering me at all, and I am very glad to have a sympathetic ear to vent to.
    I am not sensitive to that so much because I have suffered to be on the receiving end, but it is just a part of my value system. I believe good time management to be a very important skill, and that it is the basis for social competence and professional success, along with say, good manners, or speaking English as a second language etc.
    To tell you the truth, I can live with him as he is, it is a problem for him much more than it is for me. Same for example with the fact that he is slighly overweight and as a consequence has high blood pressure. He will have so much better qualty of life if he manages to fix those, with what I consider just a little bit of effort. But obviously, to him it would be too much effort and me trying to fix him. Oh well… I am so flexible these days…

  374.  #374Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Victoria 368,

    I have a problem with time management too or at least I used to.

    I was most interested in beginning to date this man I was to meet with for a mutual project. I was 18 minutes late. He wasn’t there! Later he told me he only waits 15 minutes. I was never late again.
    We became friends but never lovers for a time.

  375.  #375Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 6:23 am

    What a fascinating story. I know it is my fault I did not train him from the start… Or, I should have not taken him back after I broke up with him when we had an arrangement for me to call him after my aerobics class to agree when and where to meet, and he did not pick up his phone for 3 hours. I was seriously worried that he had a heart-attack or something. When he called back, he told me he had fallen asleep, and his phone was in the other room, and just he did not hear it.
    To this very day, I am not sure whether this is true or not. For one thing, he does fall asleep very easily, and I have another male friend who pulled the same thing to his girlfriend, so I know retards exist… On the other hand, he did admit that he has gotten pissed off because I chose to go to my aerobics class instead of spending the early afternoon with him (which he never invited me to do by the way). He does get passive aggressive sometimes, he would not tell me he is upset, but would just turn cold or very busy.
    At the same time (ok I am coming up with excuses) he is exceptionally good looking… the best looking man I have been with. I am thinking whether I would exchange his looks for some punctuality….uhhhh, thats a tough one.

  376.  #376Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 6:32 am

    OK, one last gork up here.

    That’s what it feels like. My ex used to pick at me until I felt bad then he would go around with this self satisfied smile on his face. I was so busy working and dealing with home and children it took me a while to catch on.

    When I did catch on that was the beginning of the end.

    I forgot all about that until…MusicTd tried to start that with me. Of course, I recognized it immediately and didn’t bite, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth. yuck, yuck, There, I feel better now.

  377.  #377Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 6:38 am

    What was he picking at you about?
    I try extra careful not to be critical… and, I hate being criticized. But we are of course, perfect, are we not?

  378.  #378Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Victoria 374,

    OK, another old boyfriend story. (I’ve got a million of them)

    This one sang as good as Frank Sinatra (back in the day,Im really dating myself here.) even been offered a contract but chose to stay an EE. This one also did hypnosis workshops, but that’s another story.

    Whenever, he got some intensity about me he would withdraw by closing his eyes/ falling asleep. You seem to be recognizing that passive aggressive pattern. I think it is a controling behavior when men are intimidated about the sexual attraction they feel coming from their partners ala Rabbi Boteach. I think the time management fits in here as well. Course, its from my own experience and maybe not yours at all.

    MusicTd was the worst and actually disociated several times. To be honest I did it once with him as well. These interpersonal things can be so scary. What does one do?

  379.  #379Femininewoman on January 29, 2015 at 7:11 am

    Millie it feels so darn good to read your update. Love it!!

  380.  #380Lotus on January 29, 2015 at 7:13 am

    The subject of lateness is a funny one, a few of my friends and myself have time-management problems, for me I can be quite forgetful and get distracted easily, and just don’t allow myself enough time… It used to really annoy my H and then I got really good at getting ready quickly or he would try to urge me to get ready earlier.
    The biggest connection between lateness and myself/these friends is that we’re all creative people. With my friend who is never on time, and is much worse than me, I always plan to meet her half an hour later. However I wouldn’t change a thing with her, she is always worth the wait and her effervescence seems to remove the annoyance I have at times.

    I have wondered how my two friends ever manage their time in the working world. I think it really depends on consequences. There are some people I would never be late for and they are not the easy-going type!

  381.  #381Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 7:24 am

    Victoria 376,

    Wow, that was a long time ago. hard to remember. It seems to me he would wait until I was crazy busy with childcare schedules, fixing dinner, getting ready to leave for work. Then he would make a comment about what I didn’t do for him, a small thing. Of course, I couldn’t do it right then and felt bad, then he would smile. Yuck. The point was that he would wait until I couldn’t fix it right then. Does this help?

    Talk about good looking. When I married I didn’t particularly think he was good looking I married because he had a PhD and a good provider.
    A couple of years ago our family had this big geneology interest and the kids were talking about who looks like who. All my kids told me independently that they thought my ex looked like Elvis Presley! I was and still am speechless.

  382.  #382Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 7:24 am

    With F., for one thing, he has sleep problems and an exhausting job, but also, he has little capacity for emotions, so when he gets overwhelmed by whatever he is feeling, his system just shuts down. On the flip side, as I said, he is very good looking, very sweet, and a se*ual monster. I read an expression once which describes him very well: “kinky the right way”. Foooo, I miss him. I have not see him in a few days, out of my own making, because I wanted to make sure he gets done with the da*n work project… And that is nowhere in sight, and I just miss him. We just talked and he begged me to make tiramisu for him…Hehehe, I have totally stopped providing food, so now he is begging for it. I am very happy with myself.

  383.  #383Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Victoria 381,
    Ooh you do have a problem. It’s called the Equal Parts problem. 🙂 How to decide? A little bit of this on one side, a little bit of that on the other. You could spend some delicious time just going with the flow, especially since he doesn’t seem too toxic.

    My thoughts would be to check him out against the toxic man index and if he passes that you could have some fun navigating the difference. Who wants to have a man who is a clone of one’s self any way. How boring. Victoria, enjoy!!

  384.  #384Lotus on January 29, 2015 at 8:09 am

    Hi Victoria,
    Aw so nice to read about that space you’re both in, despite the work and distance in between. Just the thought of missing each other and being in love, just makes me feel gooey. I’m just wondering about that space being extra sizzly… especially when you talk about se*ual energies. I like that he’s begging for you to make tiramisu. If it was me and my handsome lover, I would send a picture of me with tiramisu, like naked just wearing an apron, with a message for him. If that didn’t make him hurry up warp speed or want to, or bring a massive bear hug and swoop me into his arms and make sweet love, well…

  385.  #385Lovergirl on January 29, 2015 at 8:18 am

    I am feeling sick to my stomach, worried that I have screwed everything up with my guy. He texted me this morning saying he doesn’t want me to come and work at his place today. No reason given, and he was kind of short.

    I suspect he is angry about my not being available to help him yesterday or hang out. I’m sure he thinks I was sleeping with someone but I wasn’t. I noticed he had not shipped off the item that needed sewing until this morning. It probably took him some time either figuring it out or having someone else do it for him.

    I had texted him that if he really needed me to do it I could still come that evening and (2 hours later) he said “thanks. I’ll let you know if I need your help.” I knew he’d never ask for it though- he’s a typical guy that way- he is NOT going to admit needing help at that point.

    He had also texted me during the day and asked me to answer an email for him but I was unable to do that because I was out with my kids at a place where I couldn’t access the internet from my phone. I told him the reason, but I worry he took my not being willing to help him with anything all day, personally.

    I feel so lost. 🙁 I just don’t know what the right thing to do is and I am scared that I will ruin things with someone I really care about.

    Today, I just texted back “ok” when he said he didn’t want me to come. I’m thinking this is not a good time to share any of my emotions with him because they are filled with fear. I’m scared that he is going to respond to my deciding to date other men by creating more distance between us and that is the LAST thing I want.

    He is not the type of guy to just cave in- if he thinks I am out dating other guys his response is to go out looking for other women. I know this because he has told me after the fact. When I saw another guy the other day, he went out to a club looking for women. When he heard about me going out with a guy he started emailing women on Plenty of Fish. He does not want to feel one-upped by anyone.

    I’m trying to think of what I can do today to keep my mind off of him and love myself. I have a feeling he is going to pull away for awhile again. This keeps happening lately and it has me so stressed out. I’m also getting near to when I start my period and I tend to get super emotional and feel horrible for a few days. ALL my insecurities just come to the surface this time of the month. So I’m trying to prepare myself for that too and keep it in mind.

  386.  #386IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 8:19 am

    My date yesterday:

    He gave me a boob squeeze hug hello. You know, the ones where they press your boobs to their body & it kind of hurts?

    The date lasted two hours.

    The first hour was great. He talked the whole time and was cracking me up.

    The second hour? He was still doing most of the talking. He didn’t ask me anything about myself. I said very little. It felt kinda fun to reminisce about our old job, but I was definitely feeling tired and drained by the end.

    I said that I should probably go. He seemed really disappointed.

    Then, this was interesting, he kinda got down on himself as we walked outside together, which was honestly completely unnecessary.

    I feel bad for him. I can tell he’s really lonely.

    I think his message for me is that…I’m lonely too. So lonely that I have talked and talked and talked and talked my poor friend’s ears off.

    He said some things that alluded to some irresponsibility in his life.

    I have been irresponsible with some things lately.

    It all kind of doesn’t feel good.

    I feel appeased by the fact that I still feel compassion towards the men who have asked me out lately. I feel compassion for myself.

    A couple of these guys have experienced some really emotionally and financially difficult challenges. I have too.

    What I want to take away from this is that…I really wwant to work on myself

  387.  #387Andrea on January 29, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Ahhhhh….. Victoria, I’m getting a little crush on your F. What you’ve described is the type of guy I really like.

    The good looking part aside (bonus) and the “Kinky in the right way”.. woo hoo

    But I’m opposite of you in the time management area. I have no problem being on time. I’m pretty organized and efficient in that area. And I’ve dated men who aren’t. To me … I’m more comfortable with a man like that. I’ve always felt I could be laid back, more relaxed, enjoy my alone time while anticipating their arrival.

    I used to date a man who would say meet at the bar at such and such time. I would bring my journal or a newspaper or scratch off lottery tickets. I would order a wine, open a tab, and sit back with myself and just relish the atmosphere. He always showed up eventually and paid my tab.

    I had a step dad who was always anxious about time.. We’re gonna be late hurry hurry hurry, and it just never fit in with in my mojo. I could take it or leave it, but I always showed up on time. While I have a few brothers who have a goal in mind, but they take the longest, most interesting, most visual path to get there, arrive “late” but always have the best stories to tell.

    I prefer my brother’s company over my step dads any day. I just know… they’re gonna be late, but when they get here, the sun will have arrived.

    I do understand though that over functioning… as in you telling F you wouldn’t see him until he got his work done. As though his work were you business.

    Ick it feels so teacherly, motherly… my HUGE pet peeve is a man who can’t manage his finances. Can’t balance his books. UHG!! A man who wants to hand that responsibility off to me: ala Baby Daddy.

    I was soooooo tempted to jump into his business and take over his money mess. But then I had to realize… honestly, that’s way too much stress for me.

    When I did feeling messages around it I began to realize that I have huge fears and blockages when it comes to my savings account. I had to turn it on myself, and realize one of the reasons that his financial mess was such a problem for me, is because I question my own lovability and my own worth based on my own fiscal responsibility. I am really hard on myself when it comes to money. Either I’m really strict with penny pinching and I commend myself for being so disciplined and I stress and worry and fret about it. Or I over spend and I beat myself up and feel like I have to hide it from (who???) and I guilt all over myself.

    Either way….. pretty extreme. So Baby Daddy was a huge trigger for me regarding that aspect of life.


  388.  #388Indigo on January 29, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Lovergirl 384,

    I was watching an RR video today which said that when a man has been accustomed to us making things really easy for him, when we change (like you are CDing, which is a good thing that you are doing for yourself, but it makes you less available – also a good thing) he gets really angry. Or at the least, he does not know what to do. If you think about it, it makes sense. If you have been making things really easy for someone, essentially doing some of their work (you are going over to HIS house, to have sex, think about it!) and then when you stop some of that, of course there is going to be an adjustment on their part. They may even feel a bit resentful at first. They may get angry. But ask yourself, do you want to stop doing what is good for you in order to make yourself more available to someone else, in order to maintain the status quo, to stop him getting angry? Do you want to keep putting him first at your own expense? By the way, if you stick to leaning back and CDing and putting yourself first, he will respect and desire you more, not less. In the long term. CDing and leaning back is more of a long term strategy. In the moment he may miss the short-term gratification, but if that makes him fade away he is not the guy for you.

  389.  #389Andrea on January 29, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Lovergirl, have head Rori’s ebook?? Or talked with any of the coaches?

    I feel perplexed with where you are right now and not sure if you’re really receiving the kind of help you are asking for from just the blog alone. (just my perspective and definitely do not want to make you feel unwelcome)

    I just wonder if you wouldn’t feel more stride in your journey if you talked to a coach, or purchased the e.book at least, or some of Rori’s programs. They are really extremely helpful.

  390.  #390Andrea on January 29, 2015 at 8:38 am

    O jeez…. First sentence above: Lovergirl Have You Read Rori’s ebook. ??? : ) not sure how that typo happened.

  391.  #391Beloved on January 29, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Oh jeez…housemate had said he didn’t want to turn this place into a party zone, then just got us a new housemate who is a bass player (female) and was enrolling her into getting some musicians to come over and play..!
    I feel mixed feelings about this and it’s bringing up feelings of fear from the last time I lived with housemates and felt like the odd one out.
    I don’t want to dwell on that or riff about it right now,
    what I DO want to share
    is how delighted I feel !

    Gemini Goddess, THANK you again for your encouragement, and for helping me recognized that AviatorCD IS reaching out to me.
    I was feeling discouraged and wanting to call the whole thing off, while another part of me is “rooting for me” (and is also rooting for me with the housemate situation! thank you that part of me i love you!).

    So…anyway…I didn’t respond to Aviator CD yesterday because I just didn’t want to, and I wondered if my intuition was right about just catching him at a bad time with a date change.
    This morning, with feelings of dread, I pick up my phone. I am feeling stuff, and thinking thoughts, and composing my “feel/want/don’t want”, and while the phone is in my hand, I get a text, “Good morning! So, is is sushi or hibachi tonight?”
    OMG I did laugh out loud.
    PLUS my Friday date confirmed for tomorrow and he found a local Thai place I’ve never heard of or been to before.
    AND, yesterday, TG (housemate) built a firepit in the backyard and is having friends over tomorrow to break it in so I have that to look forward to when I get home.
    He’s all like…yeah, I just decided to build a fire pit..and he did, all in a day, a big one made of bricks and pavers and stuff.
    I did feel some stuff last night, too, that didn’t feel so good and kind of makes my heart feel achey that I will riff about later.
    For now, though..Go me!!

  392.  #392Lovergirl on January 29, 2015 at 9:03 am

    @388 Andrea-

    Yes, I have the ebook and I love it! I have read it a couple of times but will probably go back and read it again some more. It is a great reference tool. I have been reading lots of the posts on this blog from the post directory as well. I can’t afford any of the other materials at this time and I am not sure how much the coaching costs. I also looked at Leigha Lake’s site some also. I find reading the blog here and getting some feedback helpful as well. I don’t expect anyone to have all the answers.

  393.  #393Lovergirl on January 29, 2015 at 9:15 am

    @ 387 Indigo-

    That is very interesting. I do see how that could make someone angry. I hope that you are right that in the long term it will make him desire me more. I am scared. I definitely do not want him to fade away. :/

    I do drive to his house. That’s one of those things that since I have 5 kids, seems to make more sense. He’s been here before when my kids were at their dads for the weekend, but I generally prefer being at his place anyhow.

    Anyway, making changes is scary. Seeing his reaction is scary. I’m scared it will make him reject me. That’s how I felt today, rejected that he didn’t want me to come do work, but I’m feeling a little better now. I’m thinking of doing something for myself tonight. Maybe a movie.

    The boring guy is texting me telling me how he is looking forward to tomorrow and I am dreading it. I am thinking of cancelling on him. I’m not sure what excuse I would use though. I also hate the thought that if my guy were to try and see me again, I might AGAIN be with another man on a date. I know I’m not supposed to worry about it, but after a point I’d think he’d feel rejected enough to give up.

  394.  #394IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 9:22 am

    So, I just found a message from about 11 months ago on Facebook from a gorgeous guy who said the sweetest things to me. I’m friends with his sister, and he’s not on FB anymore!!!!!! So I messaged her…

  395.  #395Indigo on January 29, 2015 at 9:25 am


    I know how you feel because I also drive to D’s house – because it’s more convenient in general, he has a big beautiful house all to himself and I live with my parents, and also because it feels better to me and I love being there – but I think it’s just helpful to be aware of the effort we are putting out and just to be aware of the energy exchange.

    Instead of outright turning your man down, or cancelling your plans, have you thought of sharing feeling messages with him instead? “Oh, it would feel so good to see you, and unfortunately I already have plans… it would feel great to reschedule for _____ instead” ?

  396.  #396Victoria on January 29, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Andrea thanks a lot for your comments. You are right it should not be my business whether he keeps his deadlines at work. To make it worse, i insistently offered to help him (his project needs to be translated in english and i can do thid 5 timey faster than him). I still have a long way to being a true siren 🙂

  397.  #397IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 9:28 am

    I feel a little frustrated with programs.

    I read and listen to so much, because I know that “something” is still missing, or that I’m not getting that makes practical application of advice feel difficult.

    Finally got to some stuff in CC’s program that I realized I truly need to work on:

    -what do I reveal about myself in moments of uncertainty and doubt? I think…a lot of fear, anxiety, and not knowing where or who to turn to. A lot of assumptions that it’s going to end badly and I’m going to get “hurt” again.
    -should I approach? Yes, but don’t become the leader. Interesting…I NEVER approach, and I feel as though I’ve missed out because of that…
    -When it comes to “the commitment talk” I usually never get that far. Fear rules me, I assume the negative, because I’m almost scared of the positive and what it might mean…
    -“It’s good enough to where I would want something bigger.” -such a positive, great line.


    I need to pour so much love and compassion on myself!

    Courage, optimism, faith! here we go!!!

  398.  #398IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 9:42 am


    I know we’re not supposed to give advice, but I felt such sweetness from a particular line you wrote, and I think it would be a great thing to tell him, when he contacts you again:

    “I just don’t know what the right thing to do is and I am scared that I will ruin things with someone I really care about…”

    It sounds like he may be feeling insecure, and this would definitely reassure him.

    I’m pretty sure it’s okay to communicate negative feelings like fear, doubt, anger, etc…it’s just all in the way you do it. No blaming, making him wrong, etc.

    Just a thought. 🙂

  399.  #399Indigo on January 29, 2015 at 9:42 am


    I am leaning back but I do not “feel” leaned back. I know because in the past when I have leaned back, it has felt good and right and just flowed and I got great results. And now even though I am leaning back it feels like everything in me is resisting it and nothing is happening. Am I doing it right? Are these just uncomfortable feelings purging themselves because I am undoing old patterns?

    I got a text just now from the guy I had dinner with on Monday night, which I really enjoyed, asking me if I wanted to go to a benefit with him on Saturday night in aid of a girl with cancer, and he offered to fetch me from home and drop me off again (but said he didn’t want to interfere with my independence 🙂 ) and that felt sooo good.

    But my energy just feels really clumpy and a bit uncomfy and slow-moving, not free-flowing and easy… even though I am purposely taking great care of myself and choosing activities that feel easy… there is still this stuck feeling because things are not happening quite how I want them to. Am I doing it right?

  400.  #400Femininewoman on January 29, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Indigo reading your words got me wondering “is she holding back”? What is it you actually want to do? Sometimes we lean back in an effort to get some results is what I believe and when we search our insides we do find it, it was just flying under our radar of consciousness. This is not really leaning back I don’t believe.

    I’d suggest also saying some “even though I……….I intend to………………”

  401.  #401Millie on January 29, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Victoria, Femininewoman, and indigo– I’m glad you enjoyed my update!!!

    I realized that when a man is stepping up, listening and leading the relationship… It’s easy to lean back and have the space to think and feel about you and what you want. But in the past, when a man wasn’t doing that, I responded with anxiety and leaning forward. Now I will view that anxiety if it becomes present as an indicator of my body’s response to the man and what he isn’t doing that I need, rather than an urge or signal for ME to do something. When the waterfall is coming towards you… There is no room to lean forward, no room for anxiety… I love this new experience 🙂

  402.  #402Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Indigo 398,

    One of the philosophies I study determined that self will, pride, and fear (anger) were common sticking points. Whenever i am feeling uncomfortable and stuck with thick energy I have learned to look to one or more of those three points. At the end of your post you said the energy was slow moving around “not quite happening how I want them to.” Try that too, and you are to be congratulated for your perceptions.

  403.  #403Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 10:51 am

    IamHis 385,

    I think you’ve got it! Mirrors it is. You rock woman.

  404.  #404Dominique on January 29, 2015 at 10:56 am

    Millie – 366 – I feel SO very happy for you. <3 🙂

    Love to you


  405.  #405Mistea1 on January 29, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Millie, 400,

    I like this too. My coach Mary C said to try it on both men and women even those you don’t have close rel. with. She says its a gentler way to communicate. I’m sold on doing this with everyone and overall feel less anxiety in social situations.

  406.  #406Mandy on January 29, 2015 at 11:49 am

    I feel my sexual frustration again, but I notice it melts away when I indulge myself in things I like….you know, when I do something I like, for myself.

    Right now I feel like the deliciousness I have cultivated very recently is diminishing a bit and I want to boost it again.

    Hehe, time to flirt and go to the gym…

  407.  #407April Rose on January 29, 2015 at 4:04 pm


    If I look at the way I’m living just now, then yes, I could call it ‘leaned back’,
    Only, I’m not leaning away from anyone or anything. I am sinking more deeply into myself. In luscious, delicious ways. Every time I sink into an uncomfortable feeling and really experience it, I discover a treasure.
    It’s like I give my energy over to the bigger ‘ocean’ of myself… I drift down more deeply in the water …. and then I find myself spreading out and becoming at one with the archetypal yin/feminine energy. And then I go for a walk just feeling it and letting other people have the pleasure of seeing me for a few moments. I smile at them from this deep place in me….

  408.  #408Azure Blu on January 29, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    April R #406
    How lovely!!!….
    “Every time I sink into an uncomfortable feeling and really experience it, I discover a treasure.”
    I Have been feeling this lately… being open, laughing,
    receiving love and warmth from everyone around me…
    it is MAGIC…
    For me… i think some of this is coming from NOT being AFRAID to acknowledge allllll the interesting, scary and delightful feelings I have!!!

  409.  #409Azure Blu on January 29, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    Millie #400
    Most Excellent fellow Siren!!!

    “Now I will view that anxiety, if it surfaces,
    as an indicator of my body’s response to the man
    and what he isn’t doing that I need,
    rather than an urge or signal for ME

  410.  #410Azure Blu on January 29, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Several posts ago you mentioned Whitmore Lake…
    of course you know that is close (20 min) from my town but I am NOT familiar with the group/place you mentioned… do you live around My state?

  411.  #411IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    So…I feel pretty awful.

    I was telling my Mom what happened with New Guy. How I got angry with him calling me gorgeous and asking me if I was still single, etc.

    and she said, “Well, would you get angry if a guy you were really attracted to asked you that?”

    and she brought up someone from my past.

    and the answer was a definite “no.”

    and I just feel really guilty about it.

    but I still don’t understand the anger.

    I felt…I don’t know what i felt when he was telling me those things.

    I mean, angry, yes.

    But…I didn’t feel like he was in charge. I felt like he was trying to win my approval by saying those things. and that makes me feel…unsafe.

    I want to talk to him about it, but I don’t know how. I don’t want to lead him on.

    I feel pretty lousy about it.

    Does anyone have any ideas for feeling messages if he ever contacts me again? (which, I’m thinking he probably won’t…)

    I just feel sad that I snapped at him the way I did. The anger just came up…

    It was anger and fear.

    I feel so scared that a strong, amazing man will never pursue me again or if he does…I still won’t be ready and I’ll blow it somehow…

    Feedback would feel great.

    I read something recently. It’s hard for a woman to trust a man and it’s hard for a man to trust a woman.

    I don’t trust him.

    Isn’t there something in there about trusting yourself too?

    I feel sad…:(

  412.  #412Emerson on January 29, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    Aww Iamhis, I am sorry you feel sad. ((hug))
    Yes of course we can trust ourselves, in my opinion! Listen to your gut…maybe there is a reason you don’t trust him…maybe you can take the intensity out of the situation by switching your focus to feeling curious…
    Just an idea…
    I know I feel overwhelmed sometimes when a lot of attention/compliments are being directed at me and I feel shy and “unsafe” even…it feels foreign sometimes…

    I have to take a breath and allow it to come toward me, and sink into it, and trust myself that I will remove myself from people that are truly unsafe….

  413.  #413lovetodance on January 29, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    i am his….

    i wonder if you felt pressured by those questions…if it felt like he was rushing you?

    if it just wasn’t time enough to have established some trust with him and therefore possibly a push away on your part?

    just wondering ….

    and i wonder if any of this rings true….and i wonder what a feeling message might be in response….?

  414.  #414IamHis on January 29, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Thank you so much, Emerson!!

    You know, these comments came after a pretty intense conversation between us. He made himself super vulnerable to me. I found myself feeling scared and judgmental…and not safe.

    After reading that ebook about love, I realize it could have even been a way to deal with the intimacy. I mean, it wasn’t that much intimacy I don’t guess, but maybe it was. I saw so much of myself in him…and I didn’t like it. The way he blocks people to protect himself…I do the exact same thing. The way he blocks people prematurely…I do the exact same thing.

    and it’s painful. and I’m lonely and I have regrets about really amazing guys that I haven’t even given a chance for my behaving like a wounded animal…

    I don’t know how i feel about him. I don’t even know him. and I don’t know what to say at this point, but I wouldn’t reach out to someone who snapped at me the way I snapped at him…