Misery With a Married Man

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Here’s something I hardly ever deal with – a “relationship” with a married man – because I see only pain there, but I know many of you are in, or have been in, or are tempted to get involved in a relationship with a married man, so here’s a letter from Belinda..

(Keep in mind as you read this that I worked a bit with Belinda, so I know that she’s been very, very closed down, very afraid to open her heart, and the best she’s been able to do up to now is here with a totally UNAVAILABLE man – so we had a lot to work on, and, as you can see – a long way still to go…)

“Hi Rori,

“How are you?  I feel discouraged because I am doing so many things wrong in my interactions with Brad every time he initiates anything, and I feel like we are moving farther and farther apart because we can’t communicate well enough to get back together.

“I feel exhausted with dating and sick of doing it – a male friend of mine said he’d never met anyone who dated as many men as I do, and to quit working so hard at it – he thinks I’m crazy.  I have only met one man in the last 7 months who I feel at all attracted to physically, and he hasn’t followed through by calling to set up a date.

“He told me he was nervous around me, even though he wanted to kiss me.  According to a number of men now, I am seen as extremely desirable, but unattainable.

“Meanwhile, I have come to the conclusion that Brad and I are equally relationally challenged, because he keeps trying new things to re-establish communication, that make me feel so mixed up I keep messing up or swat him back down, and then he disappears again for a week or two.

“For example:  I am always available to see him the minute he asks (YEA!!!), always pick up when he calls (AT LAST!!!), slapped him in public when he put his hands on my boobs after we met up by accident (oh my GOD – I can’t believe I just did that!!!), said yes when he asked if he could come spend the night at 11pm (maybe this is IT!!!), and let him sleep with me (WITHOUT sex – which was sheer torture/bliss – am I CRAZY!?!

“I haven’t had sex in half a YEAR and might never have it again in my entire LIFE the way I’m going!!!  If this doesn’t work to get him back I will be so MAD at myself!!!), argue with any point he tries to make having to do with what went wrong (yes you DID!!!), avoided inviting him to a party he knew I was having and said he wanted to come to (should I/shouldn’t I? – I don’t KNOW!!!), and got belligerent when he said he loved me (well what are you going to DO about it?!!).  You get the drift.

“When I try to talk about stuff like, does he want to let our business end? he looks shocked and says, of COURSE not!  Neither one of us seems to be able to get more than half a sentence out about our relationship (we never even use that word) before we can’t think of what to say next and clam up.  I’m not sure we have even reached middle school.

“It’s not that I don’t know I’m not supposed to do these things – I do it all perfectly with every other man – but the moment Brad appears in my life (always unexpectedly) I feel overwhelmed by mixed feelings, all I want to do is be with him, and I worry I won’t do it all right.

“Luckily, most of the times I have seen him it has been in group settings where I look great, feel confident, and other men are falling all over me.  But so far, without fail, every time we get together, we have the best time, we talk just like we used to about everything and it is only when we try to talk about the relationship or he tries to initiate sex again that we get stuck.

“From the little I have seen him, and from his friends, his marriage appears to be in name only, and Brad is “really messed up.”

“I think I know my two big problems:  I am always available, and I don’t call him out on disrespectful behavior – I just do and say nothing.  I don’t know what to do about recent phone call issues.”

“On Sunday evening he called to see if I could come out for a drink with our crew, I went and he said wanted to talk to me about something.  I asked what, but he said he wanted to wait til Monday to talk about it and asked when we could get together.  Afternoon.  Then he called later Sunday night and came over and spent the night.  I left before he woke up, and he called about 9am to say he still wanted to talk to me and would call around 4pm so we could get together.

“But he never did.  On Friday night, I received a call from him, but it appeared to be accidental – sounded like he was walking and talking with some girl – I waited, but after 4 minutes, his phone disconnected.  I felt so hurt I was crying until I thought, is he  to make me jealous?  Well I feel insanely jealous!  And worried I have lost him forever.

“How should I handle this now?  I don’t know if I should welcome his next call, not take one or more of his next calls, or if I should say something about any of this and if so how.  I hate the frickin’ phone and I can’t believe I am still alone.

Love, Belinda”

Here’s my answer:

Belinda – so great to hear from you, and so sorry you’re having a rough go of it. Here’s what I noticed in your letter:

1. You are now a goddess, desirable, men falling all over you, and you’re practicing like mad.

2. You’re hung up on Brad and can’t be yourself with him, or speak the truth without ‘acting” out of frustration and old habits.

3. You’ve opened up more to him – which is HUGE.

4. You say no other man has interested you – and I say that’s because of number 2 here.

5. Brad is married. You can either:

A. Be his mistress forever, being there when he calls, sleeping with him when he wants, and stuffing down your anger and frustration so that the communication never gets better. He can’t talk because he knows he has nothing to offer until he’s willing to leave his wife and move in with you. or:

B.  Date him along with other men – Circular Dating – as you’re doing, and find a way to get your internal, inner stuff together so you’ll simply compel him to step up. Just keep practicing, experimenting, working on the Diva, Siren thing – soft on the outside, tough on the inside – instead of the reverse, which is where you started. Or…

C. Drop him out of your life totally. (This, of course, is my vote.)

Sometimes the “other woman” gets the man. Sometimes she doesn’t. Most of the time, it’s all about suffering.

It is absolutely crucial that you keep going with the dating until you discover yourself relaxing, leaning back, and actually meeting a man you’re attracted to who calls you back.

*** Keep in mind – as long as you’re hung up on Brad – no good man will pursue you.

You have some choices to make, and I wish you luck – and want to congratulate you on moving as far as you have…Love, Rori

Now – notice – I’m not making Belinda WRONG.  I know we instinctively judge her situation – after all, she’s messing with another woman’s man – and yet – because I’m talking only to Belinda – SHE’S the only one I can work with, and the answer is STILL, ALWAYS, to LOVE YOURSELF.

So – I do my best to not judge. Judging works against love.

Whatever Belinda needs to learn on this journey, until she finally meets another man who at least makes her feel strong and stable and cared for and wanted in the fullest sense possible – she’s learning with Brad.  He’s the one she’s practicing with.  He’s the one she’s discovering her fear of intimacy with.  He’s the one she’s processing with.

So – if you’re stuck pining over a man, or even in a relationship with a man who isn’t doing the job for you – please, please, please don’t judge yourself.

Instead, as in my last post – ask yourself: “Why am I here?”  and use all your intelligence and energy and connection with your feelings to answer it from the bottom of your heart.

I also think of Brad’s wife – and what her answer to her question “Why am I here?” would be.  Certainly she is not getting all her needs met.  Certainly she is not feeling wonderful and loved.  if I could reach across the ethers and talk to her, I would.  But for now – the lesson for all three of them, as far as we can reach – is in Belinda’s hands.

We are all about baby-steps here…so take your baby steps, love yourself every step of the way, and make your way across the landscape of your life.  It’s all an adventure – let’s work at finding the best-feeling moments we can…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Daria on April 1, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    *** Keep in mind – as long as you’re hung up on Brad – no good man will pursue you.

    Uhmm… okay this feels confusing. It’s kind of like what I was saying about feeling tainted with the ex on the horse.

    So… i don’t want to be difficult or argumentative. I assume that this is true, and also that the thing to Do is NOT try to get over it. Hopefully it will just happen.

    Why am I still here? (hung up on ex)

    Because I still want him.

    Why do I want him?

    Because I love him.

    Why do I love him?

    Because he protects me, he’s fair, he’s attractive and every moment with him feels non-boring, interesting and meaningful.

    Um ok… sounds good to me.

    I want that. Every moment? Yeah. Everymoment that his attention is on me. Even all the ones it’s not. ONly when he’s giving attention to other women does it feel awful and immobilizing and heavy flooding.

    Like right now I want to be in his bed taking a nap. And him to play videogames.

    I want him to bring food for us to eat. I want to walk with him to the store.

    I want us to sit on his porch and talk to our friends.

    I want him to look at me a meaningful way and get me to come upstairs with him.

    I want him to want to make love to me.

    All of this feels very interesting like I’m being pulled into this scenario. It feels exciting and a little shaky scary…


  2.  #2alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    i like what rori said before about relationships being imaginary if the man is not AVAILABLE. a married man is not available. the relationship is imaginary.

    this feels very true to me based on my own experience. not as a judgment on anyone else’s.

    i don’t need to Get Over Anything. i just feel better when i touch trees. when i do my own life in a fun way. when i allow myself to recieve the man arrows of energy that feel soooooo good to me. circular date.

    i will know my king. he will show up kingly.

    being with another woman is not in my definition of my king. living a life of lies and duplicity is not in my definition of king. sit there on my horse if you must. i’l allow it if i must.

    but don’t be all surprised and wtf-ish when another man moves into #1.

  3.  #3Linda on April 1, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Being with a married man is nothing but pain but it can feel quite good till you get to the end of it. That is the trap.

    A man who will cheat on his wife with cheat on you! Dont fool yourself !!!! EVER…. flee from him.. If he wants you then make him man up! A married man will lavish you and take you into his confidences… make you feel like you are the absolute queen of his life becasue he gets to have an outlet for his emotions… it all feels good for a while… you cost him nothing really. A true goddess would not accept a meager offering because in the end she pays with her tears and heartache because he wont do the right thing to begin with.

    Dont go there… dont think about it… look for an authentic man and enjoy life that is not hidden in shadows or shame.


  4.  #4Deena on April 1, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Yes, these situations rarely have a happy ending.

    There is always some excuse why he hasn’t left his wife. Always.

    The real reason he hasn’t left her is because, HE DOESN’T WANT TO,”

    Usually, they get caught and so slinking back to the wife; leaving you high and dry

    They decide to leave the wife and you nurse him through a messy divorce and then he decides he isn’t ready for anything serious; leaving you high and dry

    They do leave and get with you and then you find out they are cheating on YOU! Imagine that.

    They continue to drag you along with their crumbs year after year, wasting your precious life.

    I know everyone likes to think their situation is unique but it really isn’t with affairs.

    A true goddess doesn’t settle for crumbs from a married man.

  5.  #5alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    i really feel strong feelings of agreement. a true goddess just wouldn’t accept it bc it is only crumbs and not the whole enchilada. is not real. once a woman starts feeling her real worth and how she feels with the man and even how other men treat her so much better the unavailable man becomes less appealing because it becomes clear how much of it is based in fantasy rather than true communication, cooperation, caring.

    it is more about a cycle of retraumatization. in my experience.

  6.  #6Ann on April 1, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Shouldn’t be on my computer too long tonight so I wanted to leave a comment so I can follow this thread on my phone. I wish Belinda the best.

  7.  #7Daria on April 1, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    I keep thinking about my ex. Maybe because this is that time of the month (before ovulation) for me where my body is trying to “bond” shall we say. I notice myself getting lonely and and more wanting to be around men or have sex around this time.

    Anyway I had a scary interaction with my dad this morning… I practiced feeling messages and did pretty well… but after feeling upset with my dad as I was sitting letting myself sink into the upsetness I Started missing my ex. Which is weird because he had nothing to do with this. So am I missing my ex a symptom of something else? Probably…

    I fail to see how I can meet a man I like more. I have been trying to meet a man I like more since 2003. Theres no one I like more.

    I knew I was going to lose him and it was going to be too late even though I tried to hurry up and learn the tools. Now he is having a baby with someone else. This was my fear of what would happen. And although I normally don’t like to date men with children because I don’t want them to be attached to another woman, I now don’t even care about that rule. Maybe it’s ok for me to date men with children. or at least this one. I want this one. I feel like I’d be freakin willing to be a servant in his household for heaven’s sake. I’m like really into this guy. I am not being a servant in his household fortunately. There is a part of me that knows better and that has pulled back.

    I miss him. I want to be with him.

    Umm… soooo… if I can’t get over it I guess I should just love th missing. I love my missing of him. I love my pinching hurting left jaw and my anger that I am feeling vaguely… I feellike I can feel my blood pulse in my head… I love that. I love that I feel like my chest is pressed down with a brick… I love that.

    I love that I feel angry and like shaking the computer. I love that I was just at this feeling a few weeks ago and it seems like I’m going in circles. I feel like none of this self-work I’m doing is really helping. RARRRRGH. Help me. I want REAL RESULTS. I don’t want a freakin never ending process.

    I feel kinda released. Cool.

    I feel like apologizing. That feels interesting.

    Can someone please make my ex love me? I give up…

    Can we at least practice what to say when he calls?

    Me: Hello

    Him: Hi

    Me: ??????????????????????? silence????? or Hi .. silence

    Him: Ey my bad I haven’t gotten in contact with you…what have you been up to?

    Me: feeling good… or… Missing you terribly? … or… I’ve been feeling ok… I feel really hungry right now…
    or… I feel really weird… or… I feel so excited to get a call from you… or… I’ve been feeling awful, I’ve been missing you so much

    ??? so which one of those should I say if they’re all true…

    I’m not very used to speaking in feeling messages to him especialy over the phone…

    I feel tense…

    I hae a voice that says: I will never find anyone I love as much. Thank you voice. I send love to this voice.

    My heart feels like it’s beating medium pace and kind of loud. I feel hopeless and heavy arms, eye lids…

    Me feel stuck. Me feel like dying.

    Me feel like baby. Me feel like no wanty feel sad. Me feel like wanty feel good. Me feel like wanty hug and happy and approval. Me feel like wanty him. noo.. Don’t leave… me feel helpless…

  8.  #8Daria on April 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    Maybe it’s good to say something feelingy instead of talking about business with him?

    Why do I want him?

    I feel afraid that other men will hurt me or hit me.

    Thank you.

    I want a relationship that feels exciting AND loving, and good.

    I got an interesting call today…
    Man: what the fuck are you doing… you don’t call me… I guess if I don’t put forth effort we would never see each other… why is your number even in my phone if you don’t want to see me

    Me: uhmm I don’t know waht to say, Im feeling defensive and I don’t want to get into that

    Him: defensive… waht… I know I am attractive, you have time to see everyone else…

    Me: I’m starting to feel mad…

    Him: Why would I care if you feel mad? I don’t care. You don’t care when I feel mad so why should I care… maybe I shouldnt call you anymore.. blah blah

    Me: ok… (burst out laughing)

    Phone disconnects…

    Soo… what felt weird was although I felt attacked, I actually felt challenged/amused and ENERGIZED??? weird or waht?>?? it’s similar with ex # 3 who gets me feeling really irritated and then I sometimes lose my cool and yell, but I also feel good and kinda flattered.

    Here the attacking guy did not get a chance to push me over the edge into feeling bad. I just got “riled up” and felt kind of excited and interested in engaging and more energized than before. So is this about anger just being an energy to use? In this case how come it felt good to feel angry… I actually felt excited and laughing and shaky,

    although maybe if he continued provoking me I might have started feeling bad…

    whats going on?

  9.  #9alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    i just triggered myself on purpose. oye ugh. my goodness. argh.whoa. intense.

    blah. blah. i feel Overwhelmed. completely overwhlemed. why do ifee l completely zapped by some men? very few but when it happens it’s like my whole body short circuits from energy overload. mother of god. dang i feel overwhele med. that feel like a river of energy flooding the top half of my body. i feel enrgy in my feet like they want to run run . i feel like i’m high in my brain. (maybe that is part of it? some sort of chemical release)

    ugh. aaaaarrrrggghhhhh. ugh.

  10.  #10alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    2nd triggering incident of the night.

    new guy from online: blahblah (i’m better than you. you can’t do that bc you’re too old to do that. blah blah unsupportive bullsh*t) he keeps talking

    me – i feel bad and i’m about to hang up

    new guy – blah blah more triggering superiority crap and putting me down

    me – i’m not kidding. i feel bad AND IM ABOUT TO HANG UP

    new guy talks louder blah blah

    me ok. click.

  11.  #11alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    the other triggering incident was from earlier. i stopped at falafel cafe to lean forward into inappropriately young man i met months ago.

    he asks if falafel is for here or to go.

    i say to go unless he’s taking his break.

    he says he already took his break but why don’t i eat it here.

    so i say ok. and the whole time i am there i use feeling messages (yae! progress!) unfortunately most of my feeling messages are i feel nervous. i feel retarded. i feel weird. i feel etc. they were all the most intense not flattering things i was feeling. 🙁 oh well. at least i was being authentic. (yae progress!)

    and so i just sat at the table knowing we were in direct eyeline of each other the whole time and i felt as nervous and sahkey as if he was sitting right next to me. actually more so because the situation was so odd. but I WANTED TO FEEL MY FEELINGS. that was the whole point of choosing to stay there to eat.

    so i sat at the table and felt all my shakiness. then later i went up and asked for a bag. he asked why i didn’t finish my food. i told him i felt too nervous and had lost my appetite. we talked a little bit. we were holding hands through the take- out window and i realized i was stroking his arm so i stopped. he asked me to come back and see him on sunday and i said i probably wouldn’t. (i didn’t knwo what to do or say here. i felt like i was a take it if it was there situation like cookie’s boyfriend had said. and i wasn’t looking to be that. i was just there to experiment.)

    he asked if i wanted him to walk me to my car. i said i’m right out front. but then i said yes i want you to. so he walked me to my car and gave me a kind of holding back kind of hug so i held back too. and then i left.

    and i felt really strong and curious and intrguied with myself. i felt really rpoud of feeling all my intense feelings in the moment and trying to stay open.

    then i got home and felt a wave of overwhelm

  12.  #12alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    so as i was trying to stay present and feel all that this other guy from online texted me and he’s like

    alias girl are you away or on an island somewhere? what’s the deal? why don’t you answer your phone.

    it’s been months welve been trying to connect but i always felt bored and let it fade out.

    i texted him back and told him i felt bad for not following thru. he said just pick up the phone when i call so i said ok.

    but the conversation wasn’t that great in my opinion and then it got to the point i just wrote about in my earlier comment. so then i hung up on him and then he texted and said he still loved me.

    i texted back and said i felt angry and i don’t want someone dicsouraging me in something i feel really excited about.

    we went back and forth. i told him i still felt angry. then he apologized. i told him thank you.

    but i still don’t feel good about him i don’t want to talk to him. i felt Very Bad lsitening to him and very very bad when he turned his negativity towards me. ew i fell bad just writing about it.

    i just ended it by saying i felt unsure.

  13.  #13alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    i don’t want to talk to him again. i feel like he just came like a grey cloud and rained crap all over me. ew. ew

    and he just kept texting and just now i told him

    i just feel bad. i don’t feel good texting.i’m going to stop.

    i feel triggered that i shared something important with someone and they just took a crap on it. i feel sad face and i feel like crying. family stuff again. yae! free therapy. i feel triggered! yae! yae! yae!

  14.  #14alias girl on April 1, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    i feel like i want to punch that online guy in the face HARD! i don’t ever want to talk to him ever again. and i feel guilty about that. like he was halfway normal i should try and make it work. instead of holding to my dreams. even my dreams of what my dating life could be like. it could be fun. i don’t have to date men who trigger me to feel like crap about myself and the feel bad about my Awesome Fantastic new hobbies. i feel so angry. rrrrrrrr. stupid. frog.

  15.  #15alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 12:22 am

    i feel very high quality. i feel very high level of difficulty. i feel very proud of myself. i was sitting in the cafe and i was trying to paint myself with love. and i purposefully didn’t primp myself before i went in and i wasn’t looking all super cute i was just looking like normal me. and i still felt attractive or rather i didn’t think about it a lot. i just kept trying to stay open and feel my feelings.

    and i just feel good. and i just reread rori’s post. i feel so amazed at rori’s wisdom in this area of life.

    for me the men in my life are who i have to practice and process with. belinda has brad.

    so daria maybe just practice and process with your #1. since he’s the one you have the hardest time with right now.

    daria’s #1 – hi goddess daria. sorry i haven’t hit you up in a awhile.

    daria – i feel ????? what does daria authentically feel?

  16.  #16Tracy on April 2, 2009 at 4:47 am

    wow…this is a post i can definately relate to…
    I love what Rori said about not judging but instead looking at it as a process a way of learning to love one self even more…
    I feel inspired by the advice that rori gives and i agree…every man comes with a message and we need to learn what this message is for us to grow…


    i can totaly relate to your story about liking one guy for such a long time…i feel challenged sometimes to let him off my horse and just forget then i feel helpless when the sad feelings come along and i cant fight them…
    As rori said we should not focus on getting over it but rather process through the whole situation and keep asking yourself why…with time i feel i will get to a better place…



  17.  #17Daria on April 2, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Thank you ladies. I feel very gently supported.

  18.  #18Daria on April 2, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Feel angry and fuzzy headed… arggh… feel sad..

    person: you are lazy and don’t do shit like GM or something… that’s how you learned to act… alwasy saying I feel… I shit on your I feels

    me: silence

  19.  #19Daria on April 2, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Please help with standing up for myself! I feel like If I don’t get it down and feel respected by my mom I won’t get to really do it with a man.

    i feel so weird and icky… I feel like my body was beaten kinda… I feel sleepy and sad and weak

  20.  #20Daria on April 2, 2009 at 11:31 am

    needed to borrow for my bills this month… I refused to borrow an extra 100 for my savings that “I would have to show each month the statement to make sure they are still there.” I said no. That feels weird.

    Person: I don’t care how you feel.

    Me: well then I don’t want it.

    So then came the comment about using people for money with no accountability and alazy like the GM companies.. etc…

  21.  #21alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    i feel compassion for you daria. my family was not very healthy with money. i learned no money earning skills or life skills (or people skills) and yet was dependent on them for money. it was impossible to become healthy with all the binds of family. i ended up running away when i was young. I DO NOT ADVOCATE OR RECOMMEND THAT. no. too hard and life threatening for a person with no skills or boundaries like i had.

    for now you are literally at their mercy bc you are dependent on them. that’s what it feels like or seems like from my persepctive. so maybe suck it up a little nd focus on trying to make your own money. is better at least this dynamic is with your parents than your husband, in my opinion.

    i feel compassion. money is a big area of frozen energy for many people. in my opinion. there are 12 step groups called debtors anonymous. maybe will help.

    also some people can’t deal with your i feels if they can’t deal with their own. some people don’t have the emotional mucle capacity or whatever rori called it. there is nothing you can really do about that. they are not capable.

  22.  #22alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    argh. i feel bad for my meddling.argh. i am sorry. i feel committed to Not meddling!

  23.  #23Daria on April 2, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    yay Alias girl thank you for the wonderful feeling meddling. I feel compassion for you feeling bad about meddling. I want you to feel good sharing and helping me and other people.

    Thank you. I feel happy. I have had a wonderful success.

    I talked to my Godsis and she hadn’t taken her meds or my herbs. She snapped that she didn’t feel well and didn’t take any. I felt upset. Here’s what I did.

    1. I wrote 3 pages in my journal (I was in a public place). I ended it asking angels to help me. and To free me from the resistance I feel to pressuring her or whatever.
    ( I forgot until this second that I asked these angels for help. I will reread to see what exactly I wrote).

    2. I wound up sending HER a 4 part text saying I feel scared. I want to help my sister, I want to pressure her… I would feel responsible if she died and I knew something that would save her. everything I feel, I feel powerless desperate… what do you think?

    This felt scary.. it felt weird to write her a text like that. I also felt really good to share. I started crying in the public place.

    3. She wrote back. me? I wrote I feel so bad Im crying.. waht do you think?

    4. She said stop trippin I will take the medicine ok.


    5. I wrote back oh i feel incredible and blessed. I would take them at nite so my tummy wouldnt hurt.

    6. She wrote back ok.

    7. I wrote back i feel so happy now and it feels so good to talk to you about some real stuff

    8. She said ok. I Said: i feel excited, kinda hungry and sleepy.

    9. She said what are you gonna eat… etc. etc.

    This feels fun. I feel a little scared like its all going to fall thru but I know it’s not. I feel so good and grateful to God. Thank you thank you thank you God.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.

  24.  #24Daria on April 2, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Yipeeee… I feel so happy. I will now apply for those GMAT jobs after I eat. I feel empowered… jooooooooy.

  25.  #25Daria on April 2, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Guess what happened now…

    My mom came to me and apologized. She said she doesn’t want to hurt me and wants me to be happy and thinks I should have the time I want to do the things I want to do and feels so scared because she really wants me to be able to take care of myself. I said I know I love you… and I hugged and kissed her a lot. I feel great.

  26.  #26alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    :). i feel very good to read you success daria. i felt very worried earleir. thank you for being understanding about my meddling. i do it with men i love too. i think i know it all and try to quot unquote Help. i feel so repulsed by myself after i do it. blech.

    i feel very riled up. had this big thing with my boss today but i used feeling messages. and i wnet into the bathroom and punched the air (as if it were his damn face) and then felt all the enrgy in my body and told myself thank you for having all that pwoer to protect me. i hugged myself. touched the wall with both hands and said thank you. regained my composure. left the restroom and put my hand on the wall as i walked and though about how good it felt to touch the strong knowledgeable tree these past few days when i took a break.

    i feel very good and adult and strong and very composed warrior. also bc i think my boss made a big mistake and is trying to make it look like my error. but is not. so hopefully it really is not bc i would feel very good about that since it seems he is threatening my job bc of it.

    phew. this feeling stuff is intense (but Very Powerful)

  27.  #27alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    turns out after an hour of internal drama and really POOR treatment by my boss that the error is Not Mine. i think this is the very first time my boss has ever apologized. there was No Way he could not. all was documented in writing.

    i feel worn out and sad that i have created this frog of a job situation. but is ok. it is helping me heal and become goddessey. this would have gone down quite differently before rori’s tools.

    i feel Sooooooooo freaking grateful and also excited about life. and also excited about not having to feel depressed from stuffed feelings. thank god. i feel i can breathe and have energy. omg.

  28.  #28Daria on April 2, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    yay. Nice job alias girl. I feel a little judged and uncomfortable when I read you referring to some of your comments as meddling. I feel like I make similar comments and I feel worried that that may be considered meddling also and I don’t want to feel that way.

    I also have the impulse to “help” men sometimes and I do relate to that. I usually feel kind of good after doing it, unless I feel resistance from them. I too try to lean back for the sake of leaning back.

    So today this guy that I feel kinda dispassionate about, (he’s handsome and nice but I don’t really feel like I know him or feel really interested or connected) texted me for the second time seomthing about sex. do I want to go to his house and make love?

    I’m like huh? I only went out with you twice. And they were like 2 weeks apart. We did make out both times.

    So I text I feel weird. I don’t really feel I know you that well to have sex. I feel bad. What do you think…

    he texts : well I want you and I want to be yours and you to be mine but if you feel uncomfortable it’s ok

    I text: I feel glad you want to be mine… and I don’t feel comfortable having sex. I feel kinda mad.

    He Texts: Why do you feel mad?

    Now I feel too bored to respond. Is this ok? Should I make an effort to respond? Am I avoiding the truth? What is the truth?

    I don’t really feel very connected with you although I did enjoy my time out with you. I feel kinda turned off being asked to have sex when I didn’t feel that I was close to that level with you… I feel angry that you would think I’m ready to have sex with you so quickly… It feels like you are looking only for sex… and I feel weird because I don’t feel that way towards you at least not right now… I feel kinda bored with you sometimes… it feels like we don’t have too much in common… I feel weird… waht do you think

    hmm… some messages in there using you need tweaking. The first two sentences were kinda good. I feel bad telling him I feel bored with him sometimes… hmm….

    maybe that’s just included in not being connected… if you’re not feeling connected than you feel bored maybe…

    what do you think?

  29.  #29alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    i feel very excited to read of all the goddesses experiences with circular dating and using feeling messages. i feel excited to learn so much so quickly just be absorbing other people’s process.

    ok. i am going to Not meddle.

    i feel excited to hear all your authentic feeling messages daria. i personally like to distill my message down to the most potent, authentic message i feel important to share. important to me. like what do i most wnat this person to know about how i am feeling. and then i choose my words. which is easier via email or text. so i always feel grateful for the practice that way becasue i can backspace and redo before sending.


  30.  #30alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    distill down to baby bites bc men seem to get overloaded with two much at one time and i don’t want them to tune out.

    hahaha. i feel compulsive with this blog.

    heehee i feel embarrassed.

  31.  #31alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    this is what i want to text to ex#1:

    in the name of all good things in the universe, please lose my number forever.

    i am not going to bc i absolutely don’t mean it and wish the complete opposite. but i want to PUNISH him. i want to punish him for punishing me. the whole Cycle is ridiculous in a comical and painful way.

    i love me. i love my psyche. i love my trapped trauma. i love that i still have so much to heal. yae! i love it!

  32.  #32Linmayu on April 2, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Making out…having sex…such foreign concepts these are to me tonight. I’m triggered, but not emotionally triggered, mentally triggered. I have not been feeling horny. I have been feeling attracted to no one. I have not even really been feeling like sex with myself. Not for months. I’ve done it because I Should, but my heart hasn’t been in it.

    Maybe I’m actually a low libido woman and just didn’t know it.

    The jade eggs are doing something…raising sexual energy and circulating it through my body, and I feel happier, healthier, and more alive, but not turned on, not yet. I’ve started having sexual dreams, and that feels good, but now I’m going to start wanting them all the time. I want to be a sexy, sexual being and I feel annoyed that I’m not one. I almost feel like I’m forcing myself sometimes. Even in my dreams I rush things rather than letting the energy build naturally–and then the thing falls apart, the magic is gone.

    I want to feel patient and assured. I’ll get what I want. No question. I’ve had enough meditations and shamanic journeys that have taken me there, and enough dreams that have shown me how I’m getting in my own way.

  33.  #33Daria on April 2, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Paarty paarty. I feel like being connected. I don’t feel really lonely. Just excited and happy. I feel surprised I don’t feel lonely since I’m sitting at the computer alone. I feel good. I feel a little mmm… bored? I feel energetic.

  34.  #34alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    i totally want to make out with boys linmayu. and have sex. i really like sex though i don’t know how good at it i am. and i don’t seem to be open or comfortable with men to show them what gets me off. 🙁 but i still like sex even sans orgasms. 🙂 i showed ex #2. i masturbated in front of him. omg. i had never done that before. i feel scared just talking about it.

  35.  #35Linmayu on April 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    AG, I am someone who has always loved sex and making out and all that fun stuff. I mean, it is awesome, regardless of orgasms. But since I left my husband, I feel nothing. And while I was with him, for the most part, I didn’t feel much; I WANTED to have sex all the time, but I didn’t FEEL the passion that I felt before we were married. So I am wondering if my super-turned-on-all-the-time state that I was in before I got married was just a relic of my lost youth, and not really a part of who I am. I always thought being hypersexual was a part of who I am.

    Well, regardless of whether it is or not, I want it back. Life was much more fun when I felt passionate.

  36.  #36alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    i feel thrilled for the day when you find your sexy sex-self again linmayu if that’s what you want. for me it seems to get triggered more with specific men but since watching rori targeting mr right i feel more open to more men. maybe. we’ll see.

    what about when you think of makani?

  37.  #37alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    i don’t know how i feel about sexual exclusivity. i don’t really want ti right now. i don’t want to give it to any man and i don’t want them offering it to me. (i feel angry.) except i don’t want to have sex with just anybody.

    i want to have like four or five guys (up from three heehee) who are mixed into my circular dating but these five guys all want me to be their one and only. and i want these men to STRAIGHTEN OUT AND ACT RIGHT. damn it. and evolve into kingly men. and then i want to end up with the one that is best for me (??? whoever that would be god only knows) and live happily ever after.

    however while these men are evolving into kings and i am evolving into a godess i want to be having sex with all of them. hah. totally serious. but no diseases.

    what do you think?

  38.  #38alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    chaotic childhood acting out or JUST PLAIN FUN?

  39.  #39alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    i feel powerful! so this gross online guy emails me some crude email about my body. and i was super triggered. in the past i would have just deleted him but tonigh i decide i wanted to be triggered by mr disgusting.

    so i texted back. i feel repulsed by your email. i don’t want to date men who act like they hate women. good luck in your search. (this was not perfect. i wish i had just written i feel repulsed and left o

  40.  #40alias girl on April 2, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    left off the YOU.

    but i am learning and practicing and this is good bc i was supertriggered and this is good practice to use the tools under duress so when my king makes mistake i don’t crcuicfy him or disrespect him and i learn to use non blaming feeling messages.

    ah but i am not there yet.

    be cause he wrote me back some other repulsive woman hating thing and i wrote back

    i feel confused why you are attacking me. i feel bad reading those words you wrote.

    i wish i had said i feel attacked and confused. i feel bad reading those words.

    he wrote back

    lol. weak.

    i wrote back.

    i feel confused. and put down. and mocked.

    he stopped writing.

    phew. i felt horrible. but now i feel powerful and more practiced. 🙂

  41.  #41Linmayu on April 3, 2009 at 4:13 am

    I just woke up from an exhausting dream. In it, what an exhausting dream.

    i dreamed that the girl my ex likes posted in her LJ about how wonderful it is to be dating him, and how wonderful it is to have me on board with the whole idea. about how she’s already met his father and she feels so lucky to be with him.

    somehow i got a hold of her, i posted on her lj and let her know that i am not, in fact, on board with their relationship. and then, everything changed. she immediately lay down on the floor of my room and started crying her eyes out, wondering why she allowed her self esteem to be beat up so hard by getting involved with a married man. i hugged her, supported her, then she and i went together to take down my husband.

    he moved back into the house, or i did. ugly truths began to came out. he had been referring to me as “his mom.” but ultimately, he couldn’t live without me. we were together again suddenly. but i wasn’t going to start sleeping in his bed. i wasn’t going to start sleeping with him. i told him that he and i were going to need to talk. he said, yes, i suppose we do. i wasn’t sure what i was going to say. i was going to let the feeling messages flow.

    then, i woke up. i woke up feeling angry. how dare my dreams show me a future that i’ve ruled out, that i’m trying to put behind me? at least, in the dream, i had been about to say “i feel disrespected and uncared for. i still want to divorce. what do you think?” or perhaps “i feel disillusioned. i need romance in my life. what do you think?”

  42.  #42Linmayu on April 3, 2009 at 4:16 am

    my dreams started changing in that direction after i started using the jade eggs. my dreams have always been indicative of what’s in my future; i dreamed repeatedly about breaking up with my ex for years. i don’t know what this means, or if it means anything, but i feel unsettled. going to try to go back to sleep.

  43.  #43Linmayu on April 3, 2009 at 7:49 am

    AG, when I think of Makani these days, I feel pretty neutral, or annoyed, or “like whatever he isn’t real and I’ll never meet anyone remotely like him.” Mostly annoyed because I know that he is imaginary and even the imaginary him is holding back in a way. I have pictures of a random dude who represents him and sometimes his expression makes me feel happy and loved, and sometimes it makes me feel judged and angry and depressed.

    I’d like to feel it for him again, as a baby step to someone else perhaps. I know I have at random occasions in the past; after my cousin’s wedding I had random flashes of turned-on-ness, and I had a few yesterday because I’d had a semi-hot dream. Takes a lot of concentrated thought/writing/effort, though. I used to get aroused at the drop of a hat. So things are moving in the right direction, if slowly. I guess that is logical, though, after being frozen for 7 years.

  44.  #44Daria on April 3, 2009 at 9:17 am

    I asked my angels to help me heal my unhealthy hang ups on “that dude” while I slept. I had some really involved dreams where a Steve Martin type character was messing around on his wife with another also involved woman. It was kinda cool. Interesting and involved and lots of colors and interesting scenery.

    I woke up now feeling good and am not thinking of “that dude.”

    I feel a little worried it could come back… but I think it worked!

    Thank you angels!

  45.  #45Linmayu on April 3, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Maybe it’s not such a bad thing that my sexual wiring doesn’t work like it used to. Maybe what I had before was the kind of “false attractions” that Rori was talking about, that makes you attract men who will hurt you. I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Daria, I am glad you’ve found some healing through your angels. 😀 I feel inspired. I ought to ask my spirit guides to help heal my hang ups on my ex. Because Rori’s right, as long as I’m hung up on that mofo, no good man is going to pursue me.

    AG, I feel terrified by your circular dating posts! You’re so brave. I wonder if I’ll ever be brave enough to just let all that traumatizing, misogynistic crap just come at me, flow through me, and go away. That is amazing.

  46.  #46alias girl on April 3, 2009 at 10:29 am

    i feel very grateful for this blog. i used to be all stuck in my head and now i feel good in my body.i feel i have made huge progress towards who i desire to be and how i want my life to be by using rori’s tools and also with emily van horn’s help.

    i feel very happy to read linmayu’s possibility of unfreezing after 7 years of not being cherished.

    and i feel good to hear of daria’s reprieve from that dude.

  47.  #47alias girl on April 3, 2009 at 10:35 am

    hah! thanks linmayu! it’s because rori put a whole different spin on it and reframed it in a way that i just look at it as free therapy now. and practice. and i can feel the results bc even that ick incident with my boss went down waaaaay different bc of all my tools that kick in quicker bc of all my practice. i really do want to be goddessey and i really do want to have a good romantic relationship with a good good man so i actually feel excited now to do all this sludge work. 🙂

  48.  #48alias girl on April 3, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    i feel angry that i fear being judged. i feel apologetic to myself and the world for being so judgmental. i feel a desire to heal my mean judgments. i feel excited about becoming a source of unconditional love. i believe it is possible. i feel bad for people i have hurt in the past by my mean judgments and angry thoughts. 🙁

    i feel scared to have people know me bc i am not perfect. i feel like crying. i feel so happy i am crying because i felt frozen before. i feel like i am wasting my time sometimes with all this self development but it is the only thing that allows me to live a half way decent life. it is the only way things get better for me. of course if things were great i wouldn’t bother. duh.

    what will i do once things are great? i will be all goddessey and sprinkle my mist of unconditional goddess love wherever i go. 🙂

  49.  #49FabJeatty on April 4, 2009 at 3:20 am

    Great site this blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com and I am really pleased to see you have what I am actually looking for here and this this post is exactly what I am interested in. I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor 🙂

  50.  #50DocK on April 4, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Guess I have a perspective on this that might surprise people because of how I experienced this – as the child of a father that cheated.

    My mom was movie star beautiful, valedictorian, taught art, math, and P/E – so she was athletic, artistic and out of this world smart – so I know that there is a part of me that says – if that wasn’t enough – what hope is there for me – a mere mortal? which is why I am so insecure with men.

    On the other hand, I know that my dad fell head over heels in love with one particular woman (he didn’t “run around” on my mom with a bunch of women). I think he did love my mom but not the way he loved this woman (who happened to have the same first name as me, unfortunately) – he loved the other woman, passionately and deeply. I felt he cheated on my mother rather than leaving before doing it because he was afraid – and that is something that so many of us do – we are just human – we get scared and “think” we are trying to do something in a way that is “best” for everyone.

    He didn’t make a ton of money, had a wife and 4 kids, a house and I believe felt this was the best way to keep the family together. My parents didn’t belong together. They fought all the time and I would hide in the closet and cry.

    When they parted, I suffered financially in ways that I can’t even explain – but I still felt it was better. My dad and this woman stayed together until she passed on.

    My parents are good friends and I know there is love there – they are now in their 80s – but it wasn’t that passionate love.

    So, am I saying that I want to be cheated on or think this all makes it OK? NO again. I just know that I adore both of my parents. I know that fear is a huge catalyst in choices – some people know they need to make that change but they are afraid – afraid of being hurt financially, afraid of losing time with their children, afraid…

    I know that so much of this has made me afraid – afraid of not being good enough, afraid – wondering how do you know when love is real?

    The other day, talking to my dad by phone he said “I love you” before he hung up. It freaked me out but he is different – he knows time is running out and opportunities to say things may be lost. Feel so strange to feel odd hearing my father say that but it was unusual for him. I love my parents so much. I’m glad they are still friends. I’m glad they both found happiness after they divorced. Hoping for my own. : )

  51.  #51Daria on April 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Dock I feel very moved and surprisingly inspired by your story. Thank you for sharing.

  52.  #52alias girl on April 5, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    thank you dock so much for sharing your story and experience. it seems people are just trying to do what’s right. and since there is so much fear like you said people end up just hurting themselves and others. i feel curious you have so much compassion for your parents situation and it seems you didn’t really take sides. or demonize your father.

    i feel very confused tonight. with rori’s new post and now reading this and i just feel confused.

  53.  #53Tracy on April 6, 2009 at 3:41 am

    Thanks for sharing your story..i honestly feel moved and without words to express myself,



  54.  #54Linmayu on April 7, 2009 at 7:08 am

    Wow, DocK! It is funny, I never, ever imagined you as insecure with men. I see you as this amazing Goddess, someone who’s just naturally “got it” and knows how to use it, someone with a power that I doubt I can ever have.

    I feel, rather, that I’m trying to push away this power and the responsibility that would come with it. Having no options as far as men would allow me the convenience of never having to make decisions about them. But I digress.

    To hear the story of your parents makes me feel both hopeful and depressed. Depressed because it shows very clearly that marriage is no guarantee of deep, passionate love–but then, obviously, I knew that already. And hopeful because your mother, the one who was cheated on and triggers me to think of getting the miserable end of the stick, still found happiness after the divorce.

    Love is hard!

  55.  #55DocK on April 9, 2009 at 7:15 am

    Hi Everyone and thank you for your comments. I was away for a few days and then sick so no time in front of the computer for about a week.

    Yes, Alias Girl, I do have compassion for my parents but the experience did have consequences for me when I was younger and only in the last decade have been able to sort through some things.

    My sister thinks I am forgiving to a fault – hell, believe me, I am no saint but I do feel that people have forgiven me for hurt I have caused, intentionally or unintentionally so how can I withold it from them.

    Yes, Linmayu,my mother found happiness. She dated a guy 17 years her junior for quite a long time. They parted on good terms and are still friends.

    I believe that a marriage can be amazing, lifelong, playful, healthy, passionate, supportive and anything else you want it to be. It’s just that so many people go in it with blinders on. Rori is helping us to do it differently.

    Linmayu you are a Goddess as is everyone here and all women are. I thank you for seeing me that way as well. I think I do own that quality at times in terms of attracting men, it’s just that I have the mistrust deep inside that makes me insecure and I put up walls. Walls are different from leaning back and have interfered with so much. I feel my heart is opening and I feel vulnerable and it’s OK. I love you all.

  56.  #56tonette on August 27, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    am inlove with a married man, causing me alot of pain. and am also a married woman

  57.  #57Rori Raye on August 29, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Tonette, Welcome, and I think we’ll all want to help you here with this one. You are in a horrible situation – and you must STOP what you’re doing and turn around 180 degrees. I told my story in a recent comment…You CANNOT be “in love” in this situation. In love requires intimacy – and you are both lying, you are not open, you are in a very non-intimate scenario. The work you need to do is on yourself, to lift yourself out of this place where your marriage is unhappy. Start there. We’ll help you. Love, Rori

  58.  #58tonette on August 29, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    this man is way older than i am… is it possible that am jus infatuated by him and not love him. he always hurt me so bad, like mentally, say things to hurt me, and i really hate that. cause all i do is just be there for him at all time, i never let this man down. but he always let me down and treats me very unfair, he pays more attention to his babymother and less attention to me and his wife, how is that. and he have place of business that he want me to fill in and work whenever he want me too. do u really think this man care about me, or just playing me as a fool. i think i need serious help, cause i never thought that i would fall in love with someone who would treat me so cold.

  59.  #59tonette on August 29, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    how do i lift myself from this situation, i live in this man’s house… he’s my land-lord

  60.  #60Rori Raye on August 31, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Tonette – you can’t be in love with a man who hurts you. It’s not possible. You are in the grip of some inner Nasty Voice that is trying to punish you by “hiring” this man, and loading all kinds of intense feelings around him, and allowing him to hurt you. STOP THIS RIGHT NOW. Go get help professionally, and from everything you read here. You need self-esteem, boundaries, and we’re here to help and support you. Calling Mercedes for the Boundaries brigade!!! Love, Rori

  61.  #61Getting An Ex Back on May 13, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Superb read, I just passed this onto a colleague who was doing just a little investigation on that. And he actually bought me lunch because I discovered it for him smile So let me rephrase that: Thanks for lunch!

  62.  #62PAM on August 12, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Adultery is a sin & God will never bless it. Why are women so dumb! No mistress gets sympathy from me!

  63.  #63Rori Raye on August 13, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    PAM – Welcome, and you may be in the wrong place on this blog. I don’t hold with any judgments, and don’t like the word “sin.” I also will not argue with you around this point…but we’re about love, warmth, compassion and acceptance here…just so you know…Love, Rori

  64.  #64Jaayden on November 19, 2010 at 7:30 am

    I just got dumped 4 min ago :'(

  65.  #65Rori Raye on November 19, 2010 at 10:04 am

    OMG Jaayden – so sorry…

  66.  #66Annie on March 9, 2012 at 3:16 am

    “Tonette – you can’t be in love with a man who hurts you. It’s not possible. You are in the grip of some inner Nasty Voice that is trying to punish you by “hiring” this man, and loading all kinds of intense feelings around him, and allowing him to hurt you. STOP THIS RIGHT NOW. Go get help professionally, and from everything you read here. You need self-esteem, boundaries, and we’re here to help and support you. Calling Mercedes for the Boundaries brigade!!! Love, Rori” I feel drawn to this message here Rori and wanted to ask what sort of Professional help do you think would help in a situation like this?

  67.  #67neemi on January 7, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    I read almost all your posts I have been in that situation and I m deeply hurt yes he lied he was single but was married than I.tried to break off but he would cry begging me to stay so I be his strength when he divorces anyways year one year later after living as the other woman I realised he was loving his wife more than me and getting the most out of both of us I also realised same pattern he used on her he using on me like his whereabouts which I feel he cheating on me too I ended it three weeks ago but like he used to call me beg him to rake him back which I would he has stopped doing that he ignores me I feel hurt and mad I invested man whole self to him how cloud he act like we never met I m so so hurt I I hate myself for not shutting my door when I learnt of husband status now I the one alone and hurt and he continues to have his way I fail to understand why his wife can’t give him the boots considering he not only cheating on me but on her toothis time with another woman oh please if anyone can help me with their own experiences and how they got over it I would appreciate any advice I feel like my world has crashed

  68.  #68neemi on January 7, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    There is this site for Co wives it makes me sick to the stomach all these first wives talk from their behinds there is no such thing as first wives always accept their husband second wife and welcome them whole hearedly what bull. Crap oh yes they show and same to their husband’s they all OK and when their man go to second wives the first one shows attachment clinginess and control and make their husband’s feel guilty so they ignore their other women and show disrespect to the other women why evebn accept him to have other woman that make him the puppet she pulls strings and makes decisions when she knows here husband at the end of day will leave second woman and come back to her why not be firm and put foot down either her or other woman surely he would choose Ger and if she is insecrd than why stay married to him she has good well paid job he is like a leech to her and I know does not love her but terms financially secured with her can anyone explain I got out if it I hurt but after reading forum servos I know I m not wrong in breaking up it is his loss but I still weep because I m back to feeling lonely again and I feel it would have been better I had not allowed him on my life than to have him and be dumped and alone again hey maybe the third woman who he cheated on me will teach him a lesson who knows maybe his wife will realised her worth and his game and will throw him out oh I can’t wait to see him suffer the way he made me and who knows how many others suffer

  69.  #69mhegz on January 16, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Wonderful! A lot to learn from this!