More On The Good Wife

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Thank you J, for giving us that brilliant short version of the Good Wife (and I’m still holding hope that the whole Kalinda/Peter thing didn’t happen…). And Mercedes – thank you for your take on “reframing reality” and Alicia’s line “What can you say to make me fall in love with you again?” that struck a chord with so many of us.

We all have our own scenarios where we would want to have said that. And yes, we all want do-overs.  Some help that maybe this isn’t as bad or humiliating as I think it is.

And yet, I just think this episode, dramatically, was about Alicia losing her cool – and yet still asking the basic question.

After being a model of restraint, she breaks down, goes after Peter in the hallway (very uncharacteristic of her) and just starts wanting to throw things in his face, but still doesn’t.

She’s still Alicia, using words the way we wish we all could – but without her normal control. Instead of answering him back with her own venom, she answers his original question at the moment he showed up: “What can I do to make this right?” with her own question.

Her answer/question is “What can you say that would make me fall in love with you again?”

There’s a lot of dialogue between Peter’s question and Alicia’s question…but, to me, that’s the exchange that reverberates. Alicia is saying:  “No matter what, I’m not going with my head anymore.  I’m going with my heart, and my heart simply can’t imagine how it could ever love you again. If you have a solution for that, let me know.”

I don’t see it as a plea to “find a way to save this marriage.”  I don’t see any agenda at all.  She’s just asking the question that’s most important here – and finally, most important for her.  The question she never really asked all along.

It’s not something you can “do” that will make someone love you…

So what is it that makes love?  What is the key to love?  And I think that’s what this is about. Love just dying.  Yes, he may have killed her love.  Or extinguished it. Or given her the wake up call to see how it was dead. it’s reasonable that her love for him would die after this….but it’s not about “reason.”  She’s been going on reason all this time. And now she isn’t.

And yet – does love die? Or just the desire to be in partnership, in “love,” in “marriage” with someone?

Another key here was her breaking down in front of her kids – and how quickly they responded to that in a warm and loving way.

I just think they want us to see another side of Alicia.  Not so put together. The fighter, not the thinker.

The not-so-well modulated, not battened-down Alicia.

They’ve thrown so much at her in this show, and she’s been stellar – now they want us to see her more human.

Great heroines have flaws. Perhaps Alicia has been so perfect – and now that she’s not so perfect – we get to see ourselves differently, too.

And here’s the message for us:

Human beats reasonable.  Feeling beats thinking.

Alicia, like so many of us, went that reasonable, thinking, trying to hold her family together route – and now she’s going with feelings.

And it’s messy!  I LOVE that we’re seeing a messy Alicia.

I love seeing a messy ME, and  a messy YOU, too!

Honoring yourself is a process, if you’ve never honored yourself before.

If you’ve always done “what’s right” – it’s quite a new world to do what “feels good” – and to accept that what feels good (and hurting someone else does not feel good after the first flush of revenge…so it’s a real discovery process of what truly “feels good”…) – is “what’s right”!

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:43 am

    Feeling beats thinking. I like honoring myself and am learning how to express my feelings.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:50 am

    Processing this in my head and heart:-

    “If you’ve always done “what’s right” – it’s quite a new world to do what “feels good” – and to accept that what feels good (and hurting someone else does not feel good after the first flush of revenge…so it’s a real discovery process of what truly “feels good”…) – is “what’s right”!”

  3.  #3The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:04 am

    I feel that a contrarian voice is needed, to add some spice to the discussion. So, honestly: I haven’t seen the episode (missed too many of them), but to me this sounds as if the ‘good wife’ is only bitching, trying to hurt Peter. She knows he doesn’t want to lose her, despite his affair(s ?). And, like Rori sez, she is certain about her own feelings, too. So, how else to interprete “What can you say that would make me fall in love with you again” than as a vicious way of telling her hubby that there is no way he can get her back? Imho it’s simply brutal. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!” And the fact that the very smart and articulate Peter had no good answer for this, other than saying “goodbye”, shows that she really hit him where it hurts. Ouch.

  4.  #4The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:07 am

    Btw, Jacqueline, and Katarina, pls read my comment #469 on the last thread.

  5.  #5Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Lurk I have not watched it either but it seems your comments might be out of context? The article suggests that she broke down in front of her kids and became human. I can’t imagine that in a break down she would be thinking about bitching and trying to hurt Peter. Knowing myself and my experiences I would be more focussed on my feelings though maybe unable to articulate them well. I see it as desperation rather than brutal because I imagine that if she was really hurting she would want to feel loved.

  6.  #6The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:23 am

    #5 It’s a point, FW. I really have to see the episode. Bit difficult, though. I didn’t air here yet, and you can’t watch Hulu videos outside of the US (damn copyright license issues).

    Btw, your comment #474 on the last threat: “Lurk I am now thinking you might be a perfectionist.” Hehe, indeed, there’s a small perfectionist trolling in my mind, always telling me how something should be to be perfect. However, you would never believe that if you knew me in real life! Aparently, I very successfully manage to ignore my NVs, even the not so nasty ones. Being a bit more perfect would be great.

  7.  #7Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 7:25 am

    I feel so good focusing on my feelings even if they aren’t “good” feelings.

    I like focusing on my feelings because they guide me.

    They are my intuition. They let me know if how I am perceiving a situation is in alignment with my deep inner self.

    Our perceptions of a situation change often. Sometimes it happens when we get more information or have some time away from a situation to gain perspective.

    But now I can change my perception based on how I feel. If I feel bad about something then it means I’m not seeing it clearly or focusing my attention where it does not belong.

    I feel so relieved realizing this.

    And relief is the emotion I am going for.

    If I’m feeling bad, I don’t try to reach for joy right away. I can just take a baby step towards feeling relief.

    It feels good to get clear on this for myself.

    As I let go of limiting beliefs, I get to take on beliefs of my choosing, empowering beliefs.

    I love the creativity of this world and reality. I love that nothing is set in stone. I love that things can change on a dime.

    I love when the universe delights me with little surprises.

    I love the spring flowers blooming here and the fresh breeze blowing through my house. I love feeling the sun on my skin and drinking a refreshing class of water. I love the beauty of this world.

    I love that I am an eternal soul who is living a lifetime in this body. I love my body, the vehicle I chose. It’s so beautiful and strong. I love knowing that I am so much more than my body.

    I love that I am connected to everything on this earth. I love that there is a force causing my body to heal, the plants to grow, and the sun to rise.

    I love the fresh feeling of a new day!

  8.  #8LD on May 6, 2011 at 7:27 am

    If you’ve always done “what’s right” – it’s quite a new world to do what “feels good” – and to accept that what feels good

    Wow this is really triggering me with my job situation. I have always been both the “good wife/girlfriend” AND the “good employee.” I’ve spent the last 2 1/2 years working on the relationship angle and now that I’ve met a wonderful man and have the kind of relationship I always dreamed of, my job feels icky to me. I realize that I’ve been covering too many people, working too hard with too much stress, too many hours for too little pay. I’ve been the reliable one. The go-to girl. I have worked holidays so others could have time with their families even though I have a family who needs me too. I have skipped my vacations. I was the one who would never say “NO”. The one who did what was right for the company instead of what felt good for me and my family…

    Now I am feeling MAJOR anxiety towards work and don’t want to go in today. I had no idea that all of this work on myself relationship wise would spill over into my job. I honestly thought I was HAPPY with my job and LOVED it until recently. Now so many things are coming up that it feels icky to me that I even thought it was a good job before.

    I feel trapped like someone in a bad marriage who knows they need to leave but can’t financially afford to. The thought of working there even one more day fills me with dread, but of course even if I quit, I would do the “right thing” and give 2 weeks notice.

    I wish I had the courage and the money to just put me and my family first for a change and just walk out…

  9.  #9SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Lurker and FW,

    I call it black and white disease…. It’s where I won’t do something for fear of not getting it right… it’s where I think something should be just “this” way or that… but in truth life has so many gray areas. When I started embracing more of the gray, my level of tension and stress eased considerably.

    I’m in recovery – not from substance abuse, but from being too rigidly stuck to certain ways of being. I think acceptance of who we are and where we are is even better than being a bit more perfect.

    i confess i’ve not seen the show in question either, and i’ve no desire to. I don’t watch tv more than one show a month, if that. Just don’t have the time and when I do have the time, there are so many other things I would rather do.


  10.  #10The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Goddess, great comment at #7! Many ideas that resonate inside of me. Thank you for this reminder of the good sides of life!

  11.  #11SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 7:36 am


    Love the post. reminds me to write in my gratitude journal. Think I will listen to some Power of Deliberate Creation today (Dr. Robert Anthony). Good stuff girl!


  12.  #12SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 7:40 am


    you can use what you don’t want to create the vision for what you DO want- in much the same way you did while cd-ing. In each instance of what comes up for you that you dislike about your job, you can reframe it… that’s what I don’t want, so what I want is…..

    If you don’t know what feels good to you, how will you recognize it when it arrives? What if it’s already near? you know?


  13.  #13The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:41 am

    #9 “in truth life has so many gray areas. When I started embracing more of the gray, my level of tension and stress eased considerably.”

    Indeed, “many gray areas”! And “embracing more of the gray” sounds good. I try that, too. Torturing ourselves for screw ups of the past is so counterproductive. We should instead see the lessons we’ve learned, and try to put them to good use. Without expecting better results than are reasonably possible.

  14.  #14Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Summerbaby and Lurker:

    I feel happy reading your comments. It feels great to remind myself of these things.

    SB: I haven’t read any of Dr Robert Anthony’s work. PG just recommended him too. I feel excited to check him out!

    LD: Sending love and support for your work issues! All I can recommend is making the decision that brings you peace and relief.

  15.  #15The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 7:54 am

    #8 LD, pls don’t see this only in a negative light! Your company did offer you a promotion to a job in another state, right (or do I confuse this?). So, your hard work and your loyalty were noticed by your superiors! That’s at least something.

    Sure, the paycheck could be better, but in these hard times, there’s millions of good folks who are underpaid. Talk about cuts and benefit reductions everywhere. So, you’re not alone. I know this thought doesn’t give much comfort to you, but at least it should show you that you didn’t do anything wrong. Under the current conditions, it’s very hard to get fair pay for hard work. But, gladly, life isn’t only about work. You have great kids, obviously, and you’re a lovely person who has so much to offer to Mr. Right. And that ain’t nothing!

  16.  #16Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 8:17 am

    RE 15 It might not feel good but it is the reality of the situation in the world today. My organization is currently talking about cuts too but I am not focussing on it because my belief is I will retain my job.

  17.  #17Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 8:29 am

    LD I believe you are on the right path for your life. The process of clearing out has already begun with your relationship. I wish I could tell you that it will be an overnight wonder but in most cases it is a process. There is light at the end of the tunnel and I encourage you to set an intention and be clear about what you want for your career. Mine this year was that I want to be in a place where I am appreciated not tolerated. Funny enough it seems all kinds of favor started coming my way including recognition that I am one of the most competent people here. I have become the kind of go to girl but for me the public recognition is motivating. I really believe that one day soon you will get what you want in your work life. You want to generate positive energy in that area of your life to create what you want. Big (((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).

  18.  #18mali on May 6, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Hello all!
    I wanted to ask you all for your insights on this:
    I was having a conversation with a friend, telling her that as a woman, I feel I should be treated well- have doors opened for me etc in the workplace, especially considering there are so many arrogant, male egos there. I prefer to keep my head down ad do as they tell me to, as I could be easily be kicked out of job (it’s not a good job, and there’ve been dodgy things… the fast food industry is a little iffy)
    She was telling me that she thought that was quite a hypocritical attitude to have… That if I wanted to be treated “well” I should give up my education and work, and not consider that woman should have equal rights to men. I’m actually quite confused in thinking about it all, and ofcourse feeling hurt that she feels I’m being hypocritical…
    Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated 🙂

  19.  #19Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 8:57 am

    RE 18 Mali I believe she is entitled to her opinion and so are you. I read something recently about being careful about allowing people to speak certain things to us because it eventually gets incorporated into our belief system. This however “there are so many arrogant, male egos there” feels judgemental to me. I say that because of personal experience. I used to feel that way about some where in my own environment but since I have started working on myself it seems things have changed. I am being surprised regularly now by some who I used to see in that way. When I am going through doors with any guy now I just step aside and wait with a pleasant look on my face. I do it deliberately, even when entering and exiting the elevator. For the most part guys respond in a chivalrous manner, even those I don’t know. If however I seem invisible I don’t say anything because it is their right to choose who they want to be. I has happened where here and there one has turned back to apologize but for the most part I have been having good experiences around this. A date actually looked down at the door not expecting that reaction from me pushed it open and walked out first. I just noticed. The next time we went out he opened the car door for me without me having to say anything. I choose to hang back and notice sometimes rather than speaking just to see how guys are and what I can experience. I would say hang in there, things are about to change. The guys might take some time to learn but give them the benefit of the doubt. People like to be around up beat postivie people who make them feel good about themselves. I would say hold your head up and focus on feeling good about yourself. Emotions are contagious so it will help them feel good about themselves and want to have you around.

  20.  #20mali on May 6, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Thankyou, FW.

    She just raised the question for me as to whether wanting to be taken care of, even at work, meant that we were inferior, and so I became confused…

    Also, thankyou for flagging up the judgement. It’s not my right to judge others; have to continue to remember to focus on myself!

    Lots of love

  21.  #21Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 9:03 am

    RE 20 Mali if you want to be taken care of it is yours so you should own it no matter what any one says. the only thing I would add is that you should take care of yourself first to teach people how to take care of you.

  22.  #22mali on May 6, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Thankyou, FW, that was very helpful!

  23.  #23LD on May 6, 2011 at 9:17 am


    I did get offered a promotion with a move to another state but things have been going downhill since I turned it down. After further investigation, I have realized that the pay with the promotion wouldn’t have been enough to live in a town with the cost of living that one had. I would’ve ended up with a higher “title” but working more hours and been struggling just to survive in an area where rent is more than double what it is where I live now.

    I do understand that in this economy that it “could be worse” and I am grateful to have the basics that I need, but with the new pay structure I could easily go work in a lower stress job with less hours and nights and weekends free to be with my family. It’s not about the money. I’m able to live quite simply if I need to. It’s about the balance between being able to pay the bills and have quality of life. If the money is the same between 2 jobs, I’m going to choose the one that offers me more quality of life. Unfortunately the pay “restructure” we just had coupled with the already poor quality of life factor with my job doesn’t just tip the scale in the negative direction, it makes it topple over…

  24.  #24Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 9:25 am


    I found a book by Wayne dyer “pulling your own strings”

    And I was able to quit the job that I hated and do something more in line with my heart….I am sooooo much happier and I actually make more money now -which I was not banking on. The new job supports my life-not just my bills

  25.  #25Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 9:27 am

    I did a lot of EFT too but the book gave me a vision of how I chose things that hurt my spirit-it empowered me with sight and a mini map

  26.  #26Tmizz on May 6, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Wow, I just had a dream that I wrote the most insanely long post in these comments!! Well, I guess that was more like real life;) lol

  27.  #27The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 9:55 am

    #23 Oh, LD, damn sorry, I thought the promotion would have come with a salary raise? Not really? Even more reason not to regret that you won’t move there! Xing fingers you’ll find a job where you earn the same with less hours. You’re totally right, more time for yourself (and the family) is more quality of life.

  28.  #28DE on May 6, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Mali #20:

    U said “She just raised the question for me as to whether wanting to be taken care of, even at work, meant that we were inferior, and so I became confused…”

    Ignoring for a moment the negative statement from u friend, do u feel inferior if a man or even a colleague treats you chivalrously? This is what should matter always…

    Interesting synchronicity…because the past couple of weeks, I’ve experienced quite a few situations where colleagues/acquaintances/friends expressed negative statements to me…

    In the past, I would either explain myself (e.g., oh, no, but…), or close off…

    These time around, it absolutely became so natural to immediately step back and switch into “wow…how do I feel about what he/she said or do?” I felt my feelings for a bit…and then I expressed…”hmm…i feel unsafe to express myself; i feel judged; it sure feels bad…”

    I used to be told “u are too sensitive…, or stop being so sensitive…it’s just an opinion”…my blood would be boiling hearing this…this time around, I expressed “wow, i don’t like being talked like this…it feels awful and disrespectful…etc”…and I would sure walk away…

    I noticed feeling avoided/ignored by many of my “old” friends, especially those I’ve had to express my boundaries too…lol…

    I feel relaxed about it…cause I also noticed my moves are watched and observed closely…FB, work, asking others etc…The “rubberband” concept goes with both men and women in my experience…

    I feel amused…and actually reassured that I am standing on my bridge 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  29.  #29Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 10:05 am

    RE 28 It good to “hear” your “voice” again and “see” your beautiful face DE. Missed you.

  30.  #30Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 10:06 am

    RE 23 LD Another offer is on the way. You can bet your bottom dollar and start looking out for it. That’s one area I believe having expectations is in order. I am putting in an order to the Universe for your new job tailor made for you.

  31.  #31DE on May 6, 2011 at 10:12 am

    FW #29:

    Wow, thank u…I feel the love and the welcome 🙂

    I’ve been trying to catch up with the past few blogs…gosh, I feel amazed by the amazing growth of so many Sirens…even those reluctant to the process, are opening up and showing their beautiful hearts …:) I felt tearful…:)

    Warm hugs to your beautiful self as well 🙂

  32.  #32DE on May 6, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Rori said:

    “Alicia, like so many of us, went that reasonable, thinking, trying to hold her family together route – and now she’s going with feelings.

    And it’s messy! I LOVE that we’re seeing a messy Alicia.

    I love seeing a messy ME, and a messy YOU, too!

    Honoring yourself is a process, if you’ve never honored yourself before.

    If you’ve always done “what’s right” – it’s quite a new world to do what “feels good” – and to accept that what feels good (and hurting someone else does not feel good after the first flush of revenge…so it’s a real discovery process of what truly “feels good”…) – is “what’s right”!”

    I love every word of it!!! I was perceived “the perfect” of everything…(didn’t think so of myself)…

    There was something to it though…As I look back…I wanted to prove myself worthy of his “love” (speaking of my exhusband relationship) and “affection”…and it all turned in resentment and loss of respect towards him…he took and took…till I had nothing to give no more…and then, it was all toooo late…I wad DONE!!!

    And after…I wanted to prove myself I can do it all…even better than a man…I enjoyed neighbors being amazed of my gardening skills (lol), cleaning guthers, moving dirt all alone…geez I was proud of myself…

    The past couple of years, things changed in me…I realized i was running a marathon…to prove myself…to others and not me…shush, so exhausting…

    Recently, I signed up for Ballroom dancing…always a dream of mine, yet never accomplished till now at 38. I feel sooo happy dancing…at times, I have guilty thoughts that I have to go there every evening and thus, I am taking away time from being with my son…

    I thanked him every evening for being supportive of me…and each time he answers “Of course, mom…that makes u happy…i love seeing you happy…” This feels soo good to me…the unconditional love I receive from my son is just awesome…hard to describe…all men I dated were competitive and jealous of our relationship…even his father…:(

    I feel fearful of not idealizing the “relationship” I seek with a man…I am practicing more and more “unconditional love” towards others…I hope to bring that into my next relationship…right now…I feel good alone…yet, somehow “secretly” wanting to be pleasantly surprised of my possibilities in love…

  33.  #33Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Mali Rori just posted a link on the other thread that speaks to your question. I would check it out. It is something about how you treat yourself.

  34.  #34Turtle Girl on May 6, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Lurker #3

    You could not be any more off base with your perception of this. When women say these kinds of things we may be saying a lot, about of lot of stuff,
    but trying to hurt our guy is not on the radar.


  35.  #35Turtle Girl on May 6, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Lurker #3

    Afterthought-so she knows he doesn’t want to lose her despite his affairs? Then maybe he should have thought about that before engaging in them?

    This smacks a little of the “it’s ok for the guy to do whatever he wants but if she gets upset because of HIS behavior, then she is a bitch” type thinking. That is SOOOO double standard, it makes my head explode.

    Actions have consequences.

  36.  #36LD on May 6, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Lurker, Nikita and FW,

    Thanks for the advice and I’m going to check out that book. FW, I mwas made another offer today. Not exactly what I want and about the same pay, but the hours I want AND health insurance, which I don’t have with my current company. I may take it and instead of looking at it as the be all end all, look at it more as a step in the direction fo finding my dream job…

    My fear is not finding another job. I’m highly marketable in this area. My anxiety comes from realizing how much my career has mirrored my personal life-over functioning and taking crumbs. Now that I refuse to accept crumbs in my personal life, it becomes increasingly more difficult to accept them with my job if that makes sense. My heart is screaming at me that I deserve better!

  37.  #37The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:05 am

    #34 “When women say these kinds of things we may be saying a lot, about of lot of stuff,
    but trying to hurt our guy is not on the radar.”

    TG, I don’t think Alicia feels as if Peter is her guy anymore. See what Rori wrote, that’s over. So, imho that rule doesn’t fitr anymore, and everythinng is allowed now. Or do you wanna say that women are nice even to their exes who cheated on them? Come on.

    #35 “This smacks a little of the “it’s ok for the guy to do whatever he wants but if she gets upset because of HIS behavior, then she is a bitch” type thinking.”
    I didn’t say that at all! Imho he got what he deserved, IF he had an affair with Kalinda. However, I’m not sure if Alicia is totally innocent, either. In the espisodes that I’ve seen, it was obvious there was something going on with Will.

  38.  #38Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:09 am

    LD Re 36 You do, in every area of life. Just that it is not a quick fix. Your awareness created what you currently have and it will create what you want using babysteps. It is a process.

  39.  #39Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:11 am

    RE 37 I have a friend who is bitter at her ex for cheating but was still trying to get him back. Just in a very masculine way that he could not handle. She was litterally running after him and grabbing at him. What I could not understand is how she had badmouthed him saying she did not want him but at the same time showing in her behavior that she desperately wanted him. It was pathetic to watch and he ended up marrying someone else. He told me he tried to reconcile but just could not do it.

  40.  #40Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Alicia never sleeps with Will. I just watched the finale last night (despite the SPOILERS here, grrrrrr hehe)

  41.  #41Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Had to share this from another coach:-

    Here’s the thing — time DOES heal all wounds, even in the dating game.

    In Erin’s case, the two months after she rejected the poor guy may not have been enough for him to get over it. But apparently, six months may have been
    enough time for him to heal and reconsider.

    By the way, at that point, Erin made another crucial mistake that may have ruined her chances at saving the relationship.

    Here’s the answer — the mistake she made was asking him, over and over, about why he changed his mind. It was like she was asking him why he took the
    “wrong” approach. It was very confrontational. Will men take well to being confronted and criticized like that? I don’t think so!

    Here’s a tip — if you want a relationship to work out, both of you need to stop bringing back painful
    memories. The longer you dwell on past hurts, the
    more miserable your relationship becomes, and the less likely it’s going to last very long!

  42.  #42Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Femininewoman, that is powerful stuff…i am craving to read more. Can you share a link or something?

  43.  #43Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:23 am

    It was a free email.

  44.  #44DE on May 6, 2011 at 11:23 am

    The Lurker:

    U said:

    “TG, I don’t think Alicia feels as if Peter is her guy anymore. “…

    I don’t think …”Alicia feels as if Peter is her guy anymore…” Alicia can’t feel that…she could Think that though…

    My take on it is: Alicia doesn’t know whether Peter is her guy anymore…Her posing statement ““What can you say that would make me fall in love with you again?” implies a lot of possibilities…but not an end…

    She likely feels lots of things: pain, numbness…betrayal…In my case, I know it’s over when I absolutely have NOTHING MORE TO SAY…saying something is an indication of HOPE to me…

    Warm hugs,

  45.  #45The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:26 am

    #41 “Alicia never sleeps with Will.”
    Imho, TV just didn’t show the wild sex they had every other day! Where there’s heat there’s fire. And, damn, there’s a lot of heat when Alicia and Will are together!

  46.  #46The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Btw, did Chris Noth want more money, maybe? And will there be a season 3?

  47.  #47Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 11:28 am

    “If you’ve always done ‘what’s right’ – it’s quite a new world to do what ‘feels good’ – and to accept that what feels good – is ‘what’s right!'”

    Hmmmphh. This is where I struggle. I have spent my entire adult life doing “what’s right.” Many times it has been because I’ve had to: no other adult was stepping up to do it, and I had children who needed me to do what’s right.

    I am taking baby steps toward doing what feels right for me. For me that has been things like accepting dates even on nights when I have the kids (and paying a sitter); sending a man home late at night to drive two hours despite him moaning about the drive because it did not feel right to let him stay; continuing to stick to a “lean back” pose even though a man is expressing his frustration that I am not picking up the ball (one even accused me of being manipulative, which in my past would have made me capitulate to him); and my favorites: 1) saying NO to a date with a man I just don’t really want to see or who does not seem worth it compared to other things I’d rather be doing with my free time, like reading, gardening, or watching a movie at home (I used to feel obligated to accept a date when I was asked) and 2) not giving my phone number to someone just because he asks.

    It’s not so much that I am pursuing things that FEEL GOOD just yet–it is more avoiding things that DON”T FEEL GOOD for me right now. That’s my baby step, I think.

  48.  #48Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Alicia never sleeps with will….
    I’m confused.
    I follow this show pretty religiously – did I miss something?

  49.  #49Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Yayyy Boomer is back

  50.  #50Lilybelle on May 6, 2011 at 11:30 am

    “Honoring yourself is a process, if you’ve never honored yourself before.”

    No truer words have been spoken.


  51.  #51Turtle Girl on May 6, 2011 at 11:30 am


    No not saying by any stretch that women are always nice to guys who cheat on them. No- of course not.
    That kind of betrayal feels just awful and it is very difficult even for the most “enlightened” woman to keep her cool over that kind of thing.

    All I was saying though is that the primary reasons when we attack or lash out or say whatever that it is that would put us in “bitch” status according to a man is not what he thinks it is necessarily.
    Fury from a woman scorned? Well ok. To women– that kind of betrayal is one of the worst things a man could do. The hurt involved is legion.

    For men-because of their DNA I suppose don’t see it as that big a deal maybe, I dunno. So yeah, regardless he got what he deserved. And It’s not ok for her to cheat either, although in this specific case, she didn’t, but still not the point really.

  52.  #52Turtle Girl on May 6, 2011 at 11:33 am

    spot on girl.

  53.  #53The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:33 am

    #44 “Alicia can’t feel that…she could Think that though…”
    Excuse me pls, DE, but this obviously isn’t a rational issue! Of course that’s a decision born in the emotional side of her brain.

    “I know it’s over when I absolutely have NOTHING MORE TO SAY”
    I never experienced that. Women ALWAYS have something to say! It only doesn’t make much sense sometimes.
    (Sry, kidding! Well, mostly…)

  54.  #54mali on May 6, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Re: 28 DE
    I feel good- really, really good and warm. Taken care of. Protected. But it made me question how to mix feelings and my feminine self with my work, where, I know if I actually cared about my job, I’d probably have to reside in my masculine energy. Which feels icky to me!
    And yes, my friends have noticed I’ve changed… I’m very proud of the fact that I only choose to remain friends with people with whom I feel good around. Go MEEEE, and GO USSS!! 😀
    Re 33 FW
    Thankyou so much for the heads up. I feel a lot of warmth in seeing your presence on here, and acknowledged. Thankyou 🙂

  55.  #55Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:36 am

    RE 53 ” Women ALWAYS have something to say! It only doesn’t make much sense sometimes.”

    hhhhhmmmmm I have learnt and am learning to be comfortable with silence. I have been experiencing men who seem that way especially when I am silent. I find it amusing how it can get them showing their insecurities.

  56.  #56The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:36 am

    #51 “For men-because of their DNA I suppose don’t see it as that big a deal maybe, I dunno.”

    Pls google for studies on cheating! Actually, more women cheat in a marriage than men. No big deal???

  57.  #57Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 11:39 am

    DE, #32.

    Yep, that was me…”perfect.” Only until recently did I stop trying to be the perfect mother. I think that I was trying to be the perfect mother AND father after the divorce to make it u to the kids: cooking, cleaning, bringing home the income, coaching the sports, having no personal life…all of it. It IS exhausting. My kids are much more relaxed too now that I have relaxed. The house is dirty one more day? Eh, let’s watch a movie together instead. Who cares if it’s pizza again tonight–I’ll cook something fabulous tomorrow. I have a wine-tasting class the same night as one of your (55) baseball games? I’m sure you’ll bat fine without me there–hit a home run for me, kiddo, OK?? And I’ll be at the next game.

    I always used to joke with my ex and my kids that “If Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy,” but I never really meant it until recently. I am pursing my happiness now as well as creating a happy life for everyone else. After the divorce, my ex would comment to my kids that “mom can be selfish” when I would choose myself occasionally (hahahahaha–oh, that was rich coming from him), but now I think my kids see how much happier and relaxed I am now that I have friends to hang out with and hobbies I pursue and things that are “just mine.”

  58.  #58Turtle Girl on May 6, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Lurker #53
    Uh, no they don’t always have something to say.
    When I am done with a man, really done, I have absolutely nothing to say at that point. I want to be left alone. And to say that we don’t make sense-well to YOU maybe-I personally have no trouble being understood by other women and most men. So, don’t know what to say about that really except that is feels like a slight barb being directed at women in general-saying that we don’t make an sense. Nice. NOT.

    You say can you are kidding, but we know you aren’t really. The thing is relationships are not LOGICAL or about reason or making sense. They are about feelings. And yet there isn’t a woman on this blog who doesn’t understand the LOGIC in the fury of being betrayed by a cheating husband. Duh. Nothing illogical there.

  59.  #59The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:39 am

    #55 “I have learnt and am learning to be comfortable with silence.”

    Sounds great! Uh, you don’t happen to be in Europe, FeminineWoman?

  60.  #60Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Am in USA. I learnt that from Rori so I now practice it as much as possible, even in the business world.

  61.  #61Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Hi, FW! Happy to pop in and see what’s what again 🙂

  62.  #62DE on May 6, 2011 at 11:43 am

    The Lurker #53:

    “I never experienced that. Women ALWAYS have something to say! It only doesn’t make much sense sometimes.”…

    Well, I respect your reality…just remember…”Our thoughts create our reality…” 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  63.  #63Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:44 am

    I work with a lot of European women though. One sits right next to me and since I have been on this blog have watched her closely. She can be silent with our boss and I can now tell from her vibe when she is upset. Her body language and vibe speaks loudly but her voice is sometimes silent.

  64.  #64DE on May 6, 2011 at 11:44 am

    The Lurker:

    Btw…I am European …although, I leave in the US…

  65.  #65Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:46 am

    DE RE 62 I was just about to tell him that comment could get him in trouble here but I like the grace of your sharing. That comment I have seen from Notes from the Universe and I totally believe that.

    Lurker I respect and appreciate your reality, your worldview and experiences.

  66.  #66Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 11:47 am

    FW, I think it is your “learnt” vs. the more American-sounding “learned” that make Lurker wonder about where you are from. I’ve wondered too if you are American born. N need to explain–I respect your privacy, but I bet that’s what he was referring to.

    And Lurk? Don’t think for one second you’re off the hook for the “women don’t make sense” comment. Hggggmmmm (that’s my Marge Simpson grumble)! But I’m sure plenty of women more articulate than I on here will be by to dissect you for that comment…I wish you luck 😉

  67.  #67Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:48 am

    I is Caribbean born.

  68.  #68The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:52 am

    #58 “Nice. NOT.”
    Thank you! I’m trying to fight my Mr. Nice Guy image. Have more success with being less nice.

  69.  #69Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 11:53 am

    “I learnt” is kind of a hillbilly thing, isn’t it?
    Hehe, FW the hillbilly goddess. I love it!

  70.  #70The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 11:54 am

    #62 “Well, I respect your reality…just remember…”Our thoughts create our reality…””
    I guess that’s why I’m so irresistible in virtual reality recently, DE!

  71.  #71tinque on May 6, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Happy Friday All!!!


  72.  #72Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:55 am

    RE 69 I actually like that nickname.

  73.  #73Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:56 am

    RE 70 Don’t flatter yourself. As your true nature comes off the irresistibility might just wear off.

  74.  #74Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Thanks Tinque and same to you.

  75.  #75Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Yay tinque, happy friday to you!

  76.  #76DE on May 6, 2011 at 11:59 am

    FW# 67:

    Wow…Caribbean born??? Who would have thought? …When I think of Caribbean people…I imagine a verly laid back atmosphere, where everyone knows how to dance and move those hips…Is this a stereotype? Gosh, would love to go there sometimes…

    Also, I noticed when we are removed (okay, we move) from our “natural” habitat that we felt comforted by…we tend to create a “wall” often due to “culture shock” …I sure did that for quite sometime coming here to the US…

    Now, I know I was placed here (feeling thankful to God) to be in a fairly safe environment and have the amazing opportunities to grow and experience…far away from family and “comfort zone”…thus, getting ready for my “next step”…

    Warm hugs,

  77.  #77DE on May 6, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    The Lurker:



    Warm hugs,

  78.  #78The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    #67 “I is Caribbean born.” U so hot!
    Pls, no more infos, FW! I don’t want to stumble into yet another imaginary relationship. Should better go out this evening and check if the girls in real life here are as attractive as you Sirens!

  79.  #79Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    RE 76 DE for the most part it is true but not quite across the board. Some of us are fiery like myself being an Aries. In High School one of my nicknames was “mother pepper” another description “riot”. I have a sharp tongue that was caustic in my younger years. I knew how to put guys in their place in a heart beat. I have a huge inner drama queen but have learnt how to manage her.

  80.  #80The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    #77 Sunset… uh, DE, don’t take me for serious! Ok?

  81.  #81Daria on May 6, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Lurker – ouch that felt like an attack. It feels like being invisible in a sea of general women… And it feels degrading 🙁

    I feel surprised and awful to hear that from you … I felt quite safe and protected w you in the past and this feels bad…it lowers my self esteem and I feel bad about myself and being a woman 🙁

    Feeling sad. Don’t want to be feeling this way with you 🙁

  82.  #82Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    RE 78 Yeah and I am wearing red today. Have gotten a lot of complements.

  83.  #83DE on May 6, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Boomer #57:

    Yes, I remember reading your stories…I have felt smiley all the time…not just because of your awesome sense of humor but also reading about your thought process…it sure had reminded of myself often times…i said nothing…just smiled cause i knew u are in the right place to process…and each time we do that another “onion layer” gets peeled off…:)

    Warm hugs,

  84.  #84The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    #79 Fw, somehow I often fall for drama queens who haven’t learned yet to keep their theatrical talent in reign. As a Cancer, I’m well armored, sharpe tongues can’t hurt me so easily, but too much action in my surroundings confuse me. I prefer a romantic tete-a-tete on an empty beach!

  85.  #85Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    From me you might get sweet fire rather than tete-a-tete.

  86.  #86DE on May 6, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    FW #85:

    Meow!!!! U go Siren!!! So poetic…yet, so exotic!!!

    Warm hugs,

  87.  #87The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    #81 “Lurker – ouch that felt like an attack.”
    Uh…what felt like an attack, Daria? Sry that I triggered you, not intentional, but that’s life, sorry.

  88.  #88Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I like the little poem-form response rosa wrote yesterday on the other thread. I don’t think I took the time to tell her (because I’m totally self absorbed lol i kid, except i’m not really kidding)

  89.  #89Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    RE 86 Interesting that you used meow. I have been reading FeingoldClarke’s emails about the inner cat and I so loved them. I feel their luxuriant vibe on the inside of me.

  90.  #90Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Lurker…posted to you on the thread you asked about.

    Mali- HI!! Hugs and happiness; good to see you.

    I am always awestruck when women raise men to do such things as open doors, help me if I’m struggling…STOP on the side of the road to help a stranger. It’s just an awesome side of human nature and also speaks to the masc/fem thing.

    I’d feel happy if guys opened the door for me – although a lot of times they do it and I have to like run/skip cuz I don’t want a 15 second walk up…

    anyway, does it feel good to you?

    If it does – and I bet it does – I think/feel your coworker has more of an opinion or idea about your achievement in education than about men who hold doors open.

    It’s a drag to have this at work – or would be for me – I hope you can enjoy this male thing and put the co-workers judgements outside of your thoughts.

    You are so so beautiful, and so fresh! I feel excited for you and all the oportunities you will have.

    And all the men who not only open doors but will simply…fall at your feet….gasp at your beauty…bedazzled at your acumen and wit.

    Men are to be enjoyed, IMHO!! And, if they’re doing something, it’s a pretty good bet they want to; and a sharp mind tends to inspire them.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about it, there is however, something your co-worker hasn’t grasped and it is not about one’s station or education or equality in the workplace. It’s about men. Grin…


  91.  #91The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    #82 & #85 Apparently, you dress with the wysiwyg principle in mind, FW! Clad in sweet fiery red. Phew…

  92.  #92Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    My bffguyf….totally agrees with Rori. Laughing, I can’t post his emailed stuff, strictly forbidden – but wish I could. Basically it’s he gets angry, takes it out on her and awww…it’s really good and I can’t paraphrase it. How he can fit the whole discussion into two potent sentences is amazing. Anyway, he says they both know it’s over during the entire conversation.

    Endings…at some point…always mean new beginnings!

    That’s the most hopeful thing about them.

  93.  #93DE on May 6, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    The Lurker #80:

    Oh, so sweet…that feels good to read…;)

    Warm hugs,

  94.  #94Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    lurker, 87 – you’re saucy today aren’t ya? “sorry but that’s life”?
    ouch. take your passive aggressive tone and apologies somewhere else today. I am guarding my sirens and my teeth are showing.

  95.  #95Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Dorothea is your drama queen a vampire?

  96.  #96Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    my drama queen is ME.

  97.  #97Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I feel utterly and completely stuck and lost. I don’t know what to do. I keep thinking something will shift but it’s just not happening. I feel weary of “working on myself” – have been doing that with various methods and means my whole life. I have almost zero masculine energy now. I don’t know where it went or how to get it back. I feel like sleeping beauty in a deep sleep not able to do anything but passively wait to be rescued. I feel scared and about to cry.

  98.  #98Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Tight ((((((((hugs))))))))) Lucy.

  99.  #99DE on May 6, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Mali #54:

    U said:

    “Re: 28 DE
    I feel good- really, really good and warm. Taken care of. Protected. But it made me question how to mix feelings and my feminine self with my work, where, I know if I actually cared about my job, I’d probably have to reside in my masculine energy. Which feels icky to me!”


    Okay…so u feel good and warm about being taken care of by a man…even protected…awesome!!!

    So, to me, the problem is your job…u don’t seem happy with what you do at your job…u don’t find value in what you do…(or do u?)…and therefore, u don’t justify “your masculine energy in that context”…

    To me, this has nothing to do with you being feminine…I think it would feel natural to switch hats in our job when we feel connected and find value in what we do…

    Areas I would address would be:

    How do I feel ab my job?
    Can I see value to what I do?
    How can I appreciate the masculine? Daria’s great “thank u statements” feel great to me…as a start…

    At some point, hopefully soon, I would probably share some of my own conflicts in doing my job – which is very masculine…yet, still at times I learned to switch into feminine which not always gives me good results…

    Also, I have thoughts about some “detachment” and feeling “trapped” into a job I don’t think is a good fit for me…yet, I have to find value in it…and appreciate it…otherwise, the Universe will read into my “scarcity” and “negative” vibration…so, yes, some healing around that I am working on and hope to share ab it soon…

    These are just a first hand thoughts about it…

    Warm hugs,

  100.  #100Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Lucy, I’m bearing my teeth to the world in your defense.
    *big hugs*

  101.  #101The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    #94 “take your passive aggressive tone and apologies somewhere else today.”
    Now, what did you learn about trying to control men, Dorothea? It doesn’t work.

    Now, that was a bit passive aggressive, ok. That other comment, not. I can’t tiptoe around all the possible triggers here. And it wouldn’t be authentic if we guys here would be yes men all the time.

  102.  #102Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    yuck. no thanks

  103.  #103Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    we can add to the list not talking in a condescending fashion to any of the sirens. ESPECIALLY me.

  104.  #104Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    RE 101 I have seen another coach say something about yes men and I have also seen about we becoming yes women to men. My experience is that they don’t like it and I don’t like it either to have a man tell me yes all the time. Reeks of possibility of cheating and lying.

    I was also about to ask how do you feel saying sorry all the time because of triggers. I now have my answer.

  105.  #105Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    I have been feeling “meh” lately. Nothing and no one interests me. I feel like cocooning in my house and reading and watching chick flicks. I’m tired of being fabulous for men who don’t interest me. I know, it’s just practice, but I feel bad for them if I don’t like them much. I am seriously considering removing myself from the dating merry-go-round for a time and just doing what I like to do. I know, I know, I’ve said it all before. (Daria rolls her eyes….) Then I get, like seven date offers for one weekend, and…I’m back in the saddle (see the horse metaphor I have going on here?). Meh.

    Anyone else feeling “meh?”

    It’s weird…several men who I assumed poofed…or who have been sort of half-in/half-out…have resurfaced. And true to Rori’s wisdom, I am so past them.


  106.  #106The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    #104 It’s a bit like dancing. Every now and then, you step on other people’s feet. That makes you feel sorry for them, but you can’t avoid it, since you have no eyes in your back. If you don’t want to run that risk at all, you can only dance when you have the whole ballroom on your own.

  107.  #107DE on May 6, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Watching this video, I felt tearful, humbled, yet filled with joy and hope for healing for all of us…It marks a New Beginning!!!…Happy Mother’s Day!!!!

    Warm hugs,

  108.  #108Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    RE 106 Thanks for that Lurker. Great analogy.

  109.  #109Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    RE 105 Boomer I recently posted an email from Virginia Feingold Clark encouraging women to do just that once in while. She suggests the laser focus can cause your vibe to come across as desperate and encourages woment to take a break sometimes.

  110.  #110Boomer on May 6, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    109, FW. YES! Ya know, my female friends and family all like to say, “When you quit looking and just relax, then you’ll meet someone.”

    Now, mind you, these are all people who are in relationships or who are married, so it’s easy for them to say. And the advice is always given with a bit of condescension that I don’t particularly appreciate, I must admit.

    But there is perhaps something to the advice–and your insight that the “laser focus” can seem quite intense and be off-putting.

    Thanks for that. I feel better. Am still “meh,” but I feel a little less so.

  111.  #111Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 1:32 pm


    No man wants to be with a “yes woman.” It’s not sexy or flattering. There is no challenge — no friction — no growth.

    When you take a stand for yourself and challenge a man, it creates a spark of attraction that can grow into a bonfire of love.

  112.  #112The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Time: “Study: Men More Likely to Say ‘I Love You’ First in Relationships”

  113.  #113Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Reposting for Boomer and Lucy

    Sometimes the best way to work on yourself is to NOT work on yourself at all.

    I know you’ve probably spent countless hours reading self-help books and blogs online trying to keep up with what the experts are telling you, it can be exhausting. Absorbing all the advice and different opinions of what you should or should not do — it can make your head spin!

    Besides all that, you may be working really hard and doing your “relationship” homework: practicing meditation techniques, writing affirmations or making a vision board. These are all helpful, but at some point they can feel like drudgery.

    I’ve been there, I know. When I was single and desperately trying to find a man, I was working hard at it and thinking about it 24/7.

    I was overwhelmed with other people’s advice and my own worry that it would never happen. You might even say I was obsessing about my search for love. It took over my thinking and I went through my days as though I had blinders on.

    If you know what I’m talking about then you may be feeling overwhelmed and obsessed with your search for a partner.

    Sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is STOP!

    Not for forever of course — but you need to take a mental break and “smell the roses.”

    If you are consumed with your search for a man, you will be giving off an energy that is needy and desperate. You might not realize you’re doing this but the people around you can feel it.

    I didn’t know how single-minded I had become until it was pointed out to me by a good friend.

    You can get so wrapped up in yourself that you don’t even see what’s happening around you and you can lose your enjoyment of life.

    The perfect anti-dote to the feeling that’s “it’s just too much” is to STOP your search for a man and do something that takes you out of yourself.

    Find someone with bigger problems than you and help them. There is no better way to forget your worries and in the meantime help someone and especially help yourself.

    Helping another person will build your self-esteem and we all need that. Self-esteem does not come from the outside, it only comes from doing things that make you proud of yourself.

    So give yourself permission to take a mental vacation from your concerns about your romantic future and you’ll return “home” with a new perspective.

    Don’t forget things can change in an instant, so don’t lose hope!

    Sending you love,


  114.  #114The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    #111 “No man wants to be with a “yes woman.” It’s not sexy or flattering. There is no challenge — no friction — no growth.”

    Well, FW, I know some who do. But they’re probably a minority. Indeed, no thrill in that!

  115.  #115DE on May 6, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    FW #113:

    Thank you for re-posting this…I obviously missed it before…Awesome insights…I have experienced that sooo many times…even recently 🙁

    Warm hugs,

  116.  #116DE on May 6, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    The Lurker # 114:

    It seems like u wanna “play” the devil’s advocate today…lol Very cute…I can “play” with u for a bit 😉

    I doubt there are some who want a “yes” woman all the time…more like “sometimes”…lol What do u think?

    Warm hugs,

  117.  #117DE on May 6, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    I often observe my interaction with my son and I feel amused how it reminds me of my interactions with grown men…

    I noticed when I feel upset about something he did or not do as asked…he immediately wants to make it up to me…Sometimes, I tell him I am too upset to think of a “punishment”…and I “buy” time to think ab it…Well, that is the worse punishment to him…I always give him a time limit…like hrs or a day, etc…

    When time is up, he asks me…”So, do u want to talk ab it?”…Yes, I am ready to talk ab it…Once he learns that I forgiven him (even though, he might loose some privileges), he is the happiest boy…soooo appreciative…

    Based on my experience, I believe, it is in a man’s nature to want to challenge boundaries, ideas, thoughts…even if they step on our toes…and the forgiveness gives them a even greater sense of love…I totally think many men get their habits/expectations as how their mother treated them….

    That is why is sooo important and valuable that we, women, heal those “vindictive” thoughts and feelings…

  118.  #118Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    i feel sooo anxious today. i am quitting smoking too.
    i modified/cancelled my social plans this weekend so i could take care of myself, but i am feeling VERY unworthy of doing so, and very guilty.

    probably because since my 3-week long pcos PMS is here, part of me is like “well this is pointless, because even if you take care of yourself all weekend, you’ll still feel this way next weekend.”

    and yet, maybe for me, the best thing is to make my social time 1-3 hours at a time, and limit it to one a day.

    it really scared me how main cd was trying to get me to sign over my whole day to him. he took it really personally and accused me of not wanting to spend time with him, when the whole time i was saying please just set a time. i did not like how he was talking to me. i don’t want to be attacked because i’m not available on-demand. honestly, i feel the same way as i would if he had reached out and hit my face as a response. something about it all felt twisted and abusive.

  119.  #119Daria on May 6, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Lurker – this “that’s life” feels kinda off putting

    ive been thinking about it and i guess i got triggered remembering hearing stuff about “women talk to much, (and are stupid)” and that’s what came up for me when you said women seem to always have something to say, even though it may be illogical

    I usually feel turned off when guys make general statements like this about women. In my head i judge them as wounded/insecure…

    i now see i could just say… ouch that feels bad. i feel like im not being honored

    i feel angry when i hear stuff putting women as a whole down

    and i feel angry when i hear stuff putting MEN as a whole down

    and that’s what got triggered for me

    i don’t like to be tlaked to in a “that’s life” way… i feel like im not being protected and i feel uncared about when that happens


    i do realize now that what you said was not “women talk too much and are stupid” and that was my trigger to it, and thanks for apologizing and letting me know it wasn’t your intent

    it still feels a lil bit bad and triggering…

    i feel afraid of you a bit now


  120.  #120The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    #116 Do you really think that was provocative, DE? That didn’t come to my mind. I really know some workaholics who fell for “yes women”. It is “common wisdom” about one of them that he deliberately looked out for a very obedient girl. I guess the point is that those guys don’t want to ‘waste’ any energies at home. However, they’re really only a small percentage of men, I’m sure.

  121.  #121Turquoise3 on May 6, 2011 at 2:12 pm


    I’m feeling kinda meh too… talking to some nice guys, but no major sparks. I’ve turned down dates with men I don’t feel it for, just to not waste my time, or money on a sitter. My girls have two softball games this weekend, and we have some family stuff going on. I did schedule my sitter for Sat. night for a few hours, just to get out a bit with some friends or a possible opening to meet up with someone, but I could care less if I do either of those things, or stay home and get some stuff done around the house.

    With work, kids, family, etc. I’m just a little tired. I think it’s perfectly fine to take some focus off dating and put it back on just living. 🙂

  122.  #122Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    I’m noticing that when I’m truly into myself people want to CD me – fam, friends – women, men, that is.

    Got a call today for coffee from a man from the party on Saturday. That makes 5 out of 6.

    6 is still the one I need to complete with for not listening at all. LOL!

    Or I could just let go of this judgement of myself and see what happens.

    Yeah, will call when I feel ready.

    Then, I’m noticing that when I’m focusing on me without judgement and fear of going deeper – I feel good and I can ‘be’ with everything and anything that is me.

    That feels good and I feel more authentic.

    When I open my heart and experience my environment and others without fear and judgement – then I create a safe space to be with me – and I feel good again 🙂

    So lots of feeling good.

    In this space, I can trust myself and my feelings around having scary and uncomfortable feelings associated with love.

    … and I don’t have to DO anything – except feel…

    and my boundaries become stronger.

    I can trust myself.

    Hope all Sirens and Sailors are having a lovely and toxic free day 🙂

    With loads a’ love!!


  123.  #123DE on May 6, 2011 at 2:18 pm


    I now have the same feeling as Daria…I feel unsafe…

    I am tempted to quote all the posts that posed challenging and contradictory statements by Lurker…yet, that would feel like defending and explaining myself…and that feels bad…

    It also gives me a sense of competition…puts me in a masculine vibe…I don’t want to go there…I feel afraid cause I like the feeling of winning …:( but now I know, that is again only a temporary feeling (of winning)…i don’t want to be feared or seen as a “challenge”, thus “played” with to get a reaction…I love myself…My energy is precious to me and thus, should be used with care and appreciation…

    I want to feel valued and I want to practice valuing others for their opinion…everyone has their own “time table” to accept a new view as their own…

  124.  #124Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Oh, and it’s not ME looking for people to CD. They call me, they come looking for me.

    I’m just busy in my own world – focusing on me, being with me, enjoying my company, working on me…

    E X P A N D Queenbee E X P A N D!


  125.  #125Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    i want some positive attention. not the positive attention that turns negative when it doesn’t go according to their plan.


    i’d rather spend saturday nights alone than feel this yucky.

    i know, it’s hard for some people to wrap their minds around how someone can love them AND not want to spend time with them.

    um it’s cuz i love ME too!

  126.  #126Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    I feel so relieved that I no longer feel compelled to call a man and convince him to respect me. much easier to avoid what feels bad than to try to convince it that it’s screwing up.

    although i could have done this gently, i felt so attacked it wasn’t within my capacity at the time.

    and i would have felt turned off explaining to a man why he is being a possessive creep setting off terrifying red flags!

  127.  #127Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    if you say you miss me so bad and need to see me, then don’t push me away. retard:(

    i feel bad for him but i am going to stay away until this changes.

    i feel a giant self hug all around me. Like I figured out I could finally trust my own intuition, and not have to worry about calling a guy back when he has been disrespectful to me to convince him to care about that fact. i can trust my intuition. i will know when a situation is bad. i don’t need to overfunction and carry the emotional weight of the relationship.

    thank you thank you thank you

  128.  #128Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Thank you Dorothea and FW. <3

  129.  #129Turquoise3 on May 6, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Dorothea…. I wouldn’t mind some affection. I’m not usually a no strings attached kind of girl, but there aren’t any men in my life right now that I’m super excited about. Kinda thinking about leaning forward to a FWB kind of situation with a guy I recently dated.

    Not sure how I feel about this…. but kinda thinking I might like it.

    What do you sirens think about that?

  130.  #130Turquoise3 on May 6, 2011 at 2:43 pm


    I am sorry you feel so lousy. I think it’s perfectly ok to feel that way though. When I feel like that, I don’t worry about sounding positive or happy for anyone else. I put on my pj’s, eat something yummy and get lost in some movies for the day. Usually a new day sparks me out of it. I hope you can focus on it being Mother’s Day Weekend, and just enjoy being alive and healthy, with kids who love you!

    🙂 HUGS!

  131.  #131Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    ah-ha! just had an ah ha moment.
    i don’t leave space or walk away or lean back from bad feeling stuff with guys because i am scared they will no longer want me or will reject me if i don’t tolerate behavior that makes me feel really bad.

    this is part of trusting my intuition. knowing that a boundary is being crossed, and honoring that, and then the intuition to know that if it’s always going to be that way with him, or change for the better, he’ll make it clear WITHOUT my prodding things along.

  132.  #132The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    #123 ??? What?

    Oh fuhgedaboutit. I’m off to explore rl anyway.

  133.  #133Jim on May 6, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Hey all,

    I have a question-

    She says something like, say something to make me love you again, something like that.

    If I love someone, isn’t that my feelings and responsibilities. Aren’t I the one that created those feelings within myself about another.

    So how is it someone else’s responsibility, actions that determine if I’m going to love them or not?

    The lady above said something like he killed her love for him. Hows that? It’s her love, her feelings, right?

    Now I understand how people can do things to influence how we feel. I talk about our responsibility to others and their feelings all the time. Because I know I can make a person feel better or worse.

    So my take on the above article is… Maybe she’s telling him, she doesn’t love him and she’s not going to. That he can try to say something to make her love him and that it’s not going to work-regardless if he can say anything.

    In which case, in an abstract way, she’s trying to do to him what she has really let be done to herself. After all, she did marry him, meaning she did love him. Therefore she still does. He’s the one that plays so he’s put her in a co dependency mode.

    So tell me if I’m full of crap here ladies or what I may be missing,
    Thank you much!


  134.  #134Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Lurker – I am sooooo triggered by your thanking Rori for “chiming in.” Rori doesn’t “chime in” – this is Rori’s home. We are guests….Rori’s says how it’s going to be.

    I have a huge huge amount of respect for Rori and that felt disrespectful, made light of and just ewwww…to me.

    I feel badly that the blog became a personal opinion firestorm with me in it. I apologize to Rori and will – again – do my best with feeling messages and non blame.

    I see value in each and everyone here – and feel so loved! so often… and also, in stepping away sometimes. I feel good that everyone is on their own bridge and I feel just this huge huge hope that everyone will find joy – and find hope as their uplifting constant companion!

    I love what you said, Violet….about her value and it being about “me,” for each of us. I love how you write!

    Thank you Rori, thank you blog, thank you me….


  135.  #135Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    OH, Jim that’s pretty much what my friend Kreeden said! Thank you for the insights and I look forward to any replies…your mind is very cool!!

    Hope all is well – ((hugs))


  136.  #136Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Wow! What a day on the Island 🙂

    DE – loving your vibe!

    Boomer – great to have you on.

    Jacqueline – sending you lots of love energy. Saw you post to me on the other thread and it felt good reading. You have a heart of gold and I feel the same way about what Brenda said to you.

    Lucy – you are too cute. Strange enough, I’ve been thinking of this fem vibe of yours since yesterday. Don’t know why… and now you write about it. I think it’s okay. Sometimes things just are. I would be gentle with myself. (((HUG)))

    Lurker – LOL! What’s up with the attack mode? 🙂 Or is it because FW turns you on – lol!

    FW – thanks for the VFClark post. I just love her! Love your vibe! I find Lurker’s ‘attack mode’ really funny – like a man who having a hard time expressing his vulnerability. But you are so good with it 🙂

    Daria – here’s a shout out to you! Loved your posts on the last thread. It felt good to read and strengthen my boundaries while reading from you.

    Today in studio, I performed with such an open heart. I’ve never felt so emotional on that piece. I had to pause in the middle and place my hands over my love centre. Then came back to playing without losing the rhythm or timing. When I was done, I was all shaky and my heart was beating so fast. I felt like a little cry would make me feel better. Wow, what an experience and way to express…

    Love to all!!


  137.  #137Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Jacqueline – love you – I am triggered by “that felt disrespectful…” (134) – still love you – and hope my being triggered doesn’t trigger you because that would trigger me …. *hopeful smile* <3

  138.  #138Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Lurker – what are you drinking?

    Practicing going to bed early and waking up early.

    Goodnight Sirens and Sailors 🙂


  139.  #139Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Camile – thank you. Queenbee – thanks, and can you elaborate on “this fem vibe of yours”? I feel intrigued by your statement.

  140.  #140Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    436: Lucy says:

    Thank you Dorothea and Summerbaby. The statistic was: “Only 15% of men are 6′ or taller, yet 80% of women want a man that height.” Our Siren Island result was 50%. Hmmm. Interesting huh?


    The good news is that most women wouldn’t know 5’11” from 6′. I know because I am 5′ 11 1/2″ and many women have told me they thought I was 6′ or 6’1″. So that likely bumps up the numbers for them.

  141.  #141Daria on May 6, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    omgosh im so feeling better

    i Walked Away from what seemed to be a power struggle with me and 19 man

    i tried to communicate through it (again) and i wasnt feeling better… eh!

    and i was feeling bad about our connection no longer – i learned so much from him and really like some of the things he taught me

    and then reminded myself that something BETTER WILL COME… i don’t have to hold on to this like there will be no better man

    and so i walked away

    and now i am not gonna read his texts or reply

    until im feeling much better or at all


    yay me

  142.  #142Daria on May 6, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Thanks Queenbee 🙂

  143.  #143Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    That is excellent news Rusty. 🙂 I wonder what % of men are 5’11” or taller.

  144.  #144Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    440: Nikita says:

    And then I asked him for a favor – he said yes but…… He didn’t seem very excited about it….but he was all eager to help me the last time we went out…..he told me to let him know how he could help me! But now I feel like el dorko for even putting myself out there…I tried staying with the vulnerable feelings……and then I felt bad bcuz……well, I guess I have a bf – but he KNOws how I am!!! I don’t “do” monogamy outside of marriage(more on that later)-hello!
    I have options!!! I need options!!!!! But I felt kinda weird…..all horny for one guy but I have a perfectly good cock next to me every night that I show no interest in 🙁

    Sigh…..I want the other cock!!!!!! But then I don’t want to have sex with him without being clear about what it means for either of us 🙁

    And …..what’s even weirder is I think the divine wants me to pursue this!!! And I Do not pursue!!!(that’s not true,I used to stalk.hunt.and prey with much success-but I also totally dug effeminate men……what now???what would mama gena do???)


    I know this will trigger you so I apologize in advance. Isn’t going to stop me from saying my peace though.

    I think men and women like you do a lot of damage in the romantic world. I have been your boy friend. I have known many men who have been your boy friend. When you think you have found “the one” and you are giving every thing you have to the relationship, even if the other person doesn’t see it that way, but then you find out they are sleeping around, or it finally comes out that you just see us as convenient/stable while other less available men excite you.

    It screws with a person’s head and gives them trust issues. Which of course makes them damaged goods for the next person in their lives.

    I see it as very selfish behavior.

  145.  #145Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    143: Lucy says:

    That is excellent news Rusty. 🙂 I wonder what % of men are 5’11″ or taller.


    Probably a lot. My clothing and shoe sizes are the first to disappear when ever there is a close out sale.

  146.  #146Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Thank you Lucy for making grilled tilapia for dinner even though we ended up not liking it. Thank you for brushing my hair and getting me dressed today. Thank you for doing the dishes. Thank you for making coffee. Thank you for making one boring phone call – and yay!! – for getting the hairdresser to find an opening so we could switch my appt next wk so I won’t be rushed on day of d’s graduation dinner. xxo

  147.  #147Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    RE: 139 – Lucy, I picked up from your words “I have almost zero masculine energy now”.

    So my brain turned it upside down when I just posted to you. No masc = all fem.

    That’s where I got it from. It doesn’t mean it’s true though.

    And yet it could be.

    There isn’t much I can say about it… I’ve just been noticing over the past few threads…. and I feel really happy that you are actually stating it.

    I guess if you wanted masc energy – then I would assume you’d want it for something specific?

    So I said, be gentle with yourself.

    I don’t usually ‘force’ myself to do anything.

    I can understand how frustrating it can be when I need masc energy to get something done and I just don’t have it.

    When I finally get it, what I was ‘stressing’ about doing actually gets done faster and efficiently.

    So I’ve learned self-acceptance when I’m in that state.

    I actually think it’s quite beautiful – this vibe you are in.

    Unless you have some reason to worry? – which I don’t see…

    Other than the ‘thing’ you want to do?

    Be gentle with yourself.

    I’m still learning about being gentle with myself.

    Because it’s ‘me’ I feel I can push myself, judge, criticize for whatever… but that’s complete rubbish!

    I wouldn’t do it to anyone else. As Mercedes was talking about on another thread.

    So be gentle.

    There is definitely something to learn from your vibe – what you are going through….

    I’d just look inside and learn it.

    To me it feels like something around self-love, self-caring, self-acceptance – though it is you to determine.

    It’s quite beautiful – the vibe I mean. It feels delicate, crystal, fragile….

    What do you think?


  148.  #148Daria on May 6, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Nikita – did you know Rusty has been your boyfriend? 😉

    hello projection!! Rusty

    I have been your wife and you suck! JK – i know this will trigger you but want to protect my lovely Nikita anyway

    i don’t want to see her hurt or internalize (awful, generalized, projected, unfounded) accusations from triggered men who aren’t conscious enough to take responsibility for their own triggers

  149.  #149DE on May 6, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Queenbee #136:

    U said: “Today in studio, I performed with such an open heart. I’ve never felt so emotional on that piece. I had to pause in the middle and place my hands over my love centre. Then came back to playing without losing the rhythm or timing. When I was done, I was all shaky and my heart was beating so fast. I felt like a little cry would make me feel better. Wow, what an experience and way to express… ”

    Wow…I deeply connected with that moment(s) u experienced during your rehearsal…Thank you for sharing…it felt powerful 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  150.  #150Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Thank you Lucy for posting cool stuff on fb and creating space for me to be vulnerable and real. Thank you for helping me answer that one msg even though I felt unsure. Thank you for helping me help a friend.

  151.  #151Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    444: Jim says:

    She’s begun to get bossy, I told her so, in so many words. She said I rather be bossy than sheepish. I said, “I agree, there’s nothing I hate more than a woman that acts like a pet.”


    I don’t like sheepish but I don’t like bossy either. I learned that it can be cute in the beginning but gets REAL old later in a relationship. REAL OLD!

  152.  #152Daria on May 6, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    This note is from Rori – Daria kindly put all kinds of moderation-getting words in here so I wouldn’t have to publish it – but I wanted to – seems very powerful to me….and please, make comments with your feedback on how you all feel about the men who are here – non-judgmental, Feeling Messages, let’s work this for every opportunity. I know I don’t want to ban men because I love it when Evan or Jonathon Aslay show up – but I need to make firm rules for all men here. Now, here’s Daria’s comment (with moderation words edited out):

    all men GETDA F*CKHHK off the blog now!

    i don’t want you here anymore

    Rusty your advice sucks and you seem really closed minded

    Lurker you are having a man-period, or indeed you are too damaged and eventually it comes out so no wonder online relationships are your furthest conquest recently

    Jim- you are just catching fallout right now but are mostly confusing


    I am starting an attack to get you all outta here

    I’m feeling angry and tired of y’all judging us here

  153.  #153Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Thank you for getting up to let the dog out. Thank you for putting concealer on my pimple. Thank you for cleaning my glasses. Thank you for turning on the radio for me.

  154.  #154Daria on May 6, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Here’s from Daria, too:

    Rori you don’t have to post that attack on men post – sorry feeling upset about Rusty judging Nikita and I lost it and tried attackign but instantly felt guilty bad after hitting send. well might also be feeling afraid of backlash really –

    please help, i don’t want Nikita put down by this man

  155.  #155Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Hi Rusty – Missed your presence. Good to have you on the Island. 🙂


  156.  #156Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    thanks Queenbee! Feels good to be wanted!

  157.  #157Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Rusty is my boyfriend?

  158.  #158Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Queenbee, thank you, that feels lovely and quite helpful. I feel a bit choked up reading it, in a good way. Self-acceptance resonates, and I feel your acceptance of me just the way I am (teary now … thank you)… and that inspires me to fuller self-acceptance. Funny you mention gentleness to self – I have a Michael Brown writing about that taped to my kitchen cabinet and I reread it earlier today, really feeling the need for it. I feel blessed by the synchronicity and feeling “seen” and “gotten” by you.<3

  159.  #159Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    #149 – DE – Wow! Thank you for sharing your feelings and joining in my experience. I have felt a connection with you this evening as well – through your words/ vibe. So you saying this to me feels so appropriate.

    It’s some kind of deeper learning feeling of being feminine and openness –

    Thanks again!

    Warm hugs to you too! 🙂

  160.  #160Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    150: SummerBaby says:

    I am very curious about the dynamics of relationships and when the “L” word is spoken.

    I’ve been dating Mr. G since December. He’s using more possessive words of late – referring to me as Precious, My baby girl, and several other things.

    I am definitely in love with him. I’ve almost slipped a couple of times but stopped myself short of saying it.

    I am not CDing in the actually seeing other guys sense. I was, but they all sort of fell away on their own and I didn’t put a lot of energy into finding more. I try to be open but my work schedule is so busy that it’s difficult to do much more than cd myself and girlfriends. I do feel like I have a good vibe and I don’t think I put all of my focus on him.

    Is there a time frame for when most guys start to feel it or even admit it to themselves? Should he say it first? Should I say it if I’m feeling it? Should I wait to see what happens?

    Part of me wants to tell him. Part of me is afraid of letting him know, that I would be even more vulnerable. But by the same token, if he isn’t feeling it, I don’t know that I want to stay in it and risk massive heart break.

    Sure am curious of the male POV on this one. Guys, do you want to hear it first before you say it? We are both cautious due to our pasts. The last two times I said it first in a relationship, it caused them to disappear. One came back within days to tell me he realized he felt the same and I ended up marrying him.

    The other never came back, and I’m eternally grateful because after he left I could really see how fortunate I was not to be with him.

    I don’t know if we are on the same page. I never spelled it all out in the beginning because all of these dating concepts are so new to me. I don’t want to hang around and wait forever, however, I can wait a really long time if I know the committed thing is on the horizon.

    I don’t know that I necessarily need marriage. I think I can do the cohabitation thing and would like to within a couple years. I understand the “where is this going” is a bad thing to do, but how do you figure it out if you don’t know and you would like to?

    I guess if I bring it up and he disappears I’ll know that he wasn’t the one? He has said before that he wants to take his time. I’m okay with that, but how much time? Can I ask this?

    I feel much stronger than I ever have in the past. I mean I’m crazy about him, but I’m actually seeing the ways I make life all about a guy and am stopping myself and remembering to be about me and my happiness. I’m not co-dependent like I used to be.

    I am rambling now, so I’ll shut up and see what everyone has to say.

    Oh, I want more opinions than just from the guys, too. Thanks!



    Summerbaby, IMHO a man will know what he wants from a woman well before 6 months which is about how long you have been seeing him. However, he may not know if he can trust you yet. Knowing that you are crazy about a woman and knowing she won’t hurt you are two different things. In this regard, we aren’t that much different than women.

    At the same time, men, like women will just hang out with a woman he likes while he looks for something more to his liking. Men and women both do this which is very selfish. Seems two of those men were in your life recently and left when you made it clear you wanted something more. Don’t see it as a bad thing that they left. That is a very good thing because it frees you up to look for somebody who does want you.

    As for the pet names, it depends on whether he uses them causally with a lot of people. If he does, then don’t read too much into them, but if he doesn’t use pet type names for anybody else, then you can read them as a sign of strong interest in you.

    I myself am not big on pet names so the few that I do use mean a lot, like “punkin” for my daughter. Of course she warrants more so I also tease her and call her Uber Munchkin or Monkey. 😀

    I see nothing wrong with asking him where he sees this going. But maybe leave it up to him. Like ask him if it would make him feel uncomfortable to talk about “US” and see what he says. I am of the opinion that a man who is looking for a LTR with you won’t be scared off by a talk like that. But I think that keeping all of the talk on your two is the way to go. It can be a downer if you are just going on about how many men led you on and so now you want to openly talk about the relationship so there is no confusion.

    Better to just talk about you and him, and what you like about him, and how he makes you feel. But ask him to speak first about it…let him talk about his plan for you. See where that goes. Ask him about his boundaries. Ask him after that if he is interested in yours. Etc….

    IMHO if he is too uncomfortable talking about these things after 6 months and his use of pet names for you, then he isn’t that into you, or is a flake. IMHO.

    I would be willing to bet that he wants to talk about it though. Again, IMHO.

  161.  #161Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    155: Nikita says:

    Rusty is my boyfriend?


    LOL, I think you know what I meant. 😉

  162.  #162Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    OK< now I realize my mistake…I meant that I and nearly every man has been the guy you are living with but not interested in.

    IMHO, you should be honest with him. Tell him that you don't see it going anywhere. If you have already, BRAVO. I personally hate it when people hold on to someone they don't want to be with just to have a standby there. Just to have that Mr. or Miss Right Now while they look for Mr. or Miss Right.

    By doing that, you stop them from getting on with their search for their true LTR.

  163.  #163Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Thanks Daria 🙂

    I appreciate your support.

    Rusty we have been dating for almost 5 years and I think you know as well as I that you can’t monopolize my time or my affections without making a lifelong commitment to me and this relationship….and even then we need to decide how to create a spiritual partnership that allows, encourages the full expression of our souls without putting limits on either of us but holding space because it is a PartNerSHIP.

    I think you not proposing we spend our lives together is selfish and you calling me selfish is a compliment to my own self respect. You have chosen against togetherness and overlooked my needs…..I won’t be respecting myself if I didn’t set out to meet those needs myself. You are welcome to step up at any time…..or pout in your corner until your heart’s malcontent.

    YOU are the “unavailable” guy
    Boy friend

  164.  #164Queenbee on May 6, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    #156 Lucy – you are welcome and thank you too!

    This is wonderful! You said: “Self-acceptance resonates, and I feel your acceptance of me just the way I am (teary now … thank you)… and that inspires me to fuller self-acceptance”.

    So amazing! And I feel inspired back – to deeper self-acceptance of myself and more of others… and of expressing myself fully from that context – whether in words or in art form.

    This feels good. I feel happy being here for you and you are loved!

    As DE mentioned above – it’s amazing how BIG our spirits are and living in a mortal body.

    Gentleness is key to deeper awareness and understanding of our hugeness – this is what I’m noticing now.

    Warm ((Hug))


  165.  #165Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    161: Nikita says:

    Rusty we have been dating for almost 5 years and I think you know as well as I that you can’t monopolize my time or my affections without making a lifelong commitment to me and this relationship….and even then we need to decide how to create a spiritual partnership that allows, encourages the full expression of our souls without putting limits on either of us but holding space because it is a PartNerSHIP.


    I am still catching up on the previous thread. You did not put enough detail in the first post. The tone of it sounded as if you were in a serious relationship with one man, and found yourself bored with him while feeling excited about a guy who is unavailable to you, and I think Lurker got the same impression after reading his posts to you.

    I just read in a later post where you clarified to Lurker that he knows about your being open to other men. So if that is the case, then that is up to him to deal with, or not.

    You first post made it seem as if you were wanting to step out on a guy who assumed you two were exclusive.

    If he has been with you for 5 years and has not saw fit to woo you into marriage, then it is his own fault if he loses you to another man.

    There are men like that who fear marriage because of a bad experience and are happy to move from LTR to LTR with no marriage in the mix.

  166.  #166Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    I feel more triggered by judgments from women on here than by the ones from men. Not sure why. Maybe I have firmer boundaries with men, while with women I expect myself to “try to get along.”

  167.  #167Rusty on May 6, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Thanks to the women who posted the age range they like.

    I am mid 40s and I must admit that while I have dated older women throughout my life when single, I was always attracted to women a little younger than myself. My wife is 7 years younger.

    If I were to be on the market again, I am not sure how I would feel. I think i would still be more attracted to women who are younger but I have to admit that I think the reason is that I am very energetic and love doing energetic things. Like mountain biking, camping and hiking…scuba diving, etc…

    So I would look for someone who can keep up. It is very hard finding a woman who can keep up when your idea of keeping up is that she ride beside you on her own Harley. Riding on mine is cool too, but I have always admired those women who can NOT look like a biker, and yet ride their own Harley. I’ve met a few but they seem to be rare.

    Very hard for me to find my “ideal women” because I like very feminine women, and yet want the to be a warrior goddess that can stand by my side. That combination seems so rare.

  168.  #168Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    166. Did I post that on the wrong thread? Where are the Rori/Daria comments? I feel confused by blog-reading-by-phone.

  169.  #169Lily T. on May 6, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    I’ve seen people of both genders get “testy” here often.

    I liberally apply the scroll wheel on my mouse. 😉

  170.  #170Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    PS-he has not been my bf for 5 consecutive years-
    we have gone our separate ways and dated before.

    – fortunately I don’t feel triggered but I’m glad I can give a voice go that place that women sometimes find themselves in; a sort of “limbo”-

    I am also moving out of his place this month so there are a lot of feelings going around…i’d like to do it gracefully-

  171.  #171Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    I feeling judgemental when i see women asking ne for advice

    I feel annoyed and judgemental and unsafe and angry

    I feel put down when words like selfish are used to describe people when were practicing non judgement

    I feel rolling eyes and disconnect when there’s so mucham advice and I feel sad cuz I have a belief that it’s preventing us from finding our answers and healing

    I feel small and powerless 🙁

    This is a familiar feeling

  172.  #172Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    lucy, rori’s posting as daria from moderation. she’s adding comments in italics. but now we’re all back to our own selves and the confusion’s over

    Thank you Dorothea for fixing yourself a snack when u got so hungry it made your emotions even more intense in an unpleasant way

  173.  #173Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    *asking men for advice

  174.  #174Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    thank you dorothea for breaking the pattern and not reaching out to this man who made u feel bad just cuz ur scared if u don’t try to ‘fix’ things, he’ll disappear.

    i did nothing wrong except be busy and not be able to accept the crumbs of his last minute invitations, his 11 pm phone calls, his possessive disdan for me…
    i feel beaten up.
    avoid avoid avoid.

    can’t remember the last time he contributed TO my happiness and life. can’t remember the last time i told him i needed his support or comfort and he actually came through all the way for me. Cant’ remember the last time he didn’t follow days on end of declaring he wants me and misses me with cutting me down somehow when we finally have time to chat.

    not really sure if i am interested in this man anymore. the only thing keeping me interested is this LOVE i have for him that hasn’t gone away yet. but what’s love got to do with it, right?

  175.  #175Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    I love my feelings.

    I love my feeling powerless.

    I love my feeling invisible.

    I love me.

    I love me feeling humiliated and stepped on.

    I love feeling melted and that feels like poutyness and I lobe my poutyness sigh I love my sigh

  176.  #176Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    that’s not true…i CAN remember. it was like 2 weeks ago. not so bad. but then he tried to get me to do him favors under the guise of “helping me” by loaning me his car (i hadn’t asked and i didn’t need it for anything at all) so that i could drive him to a concert he was going to without me. lol.

    ugh so selfish! how gross! what is up with this man! how did i fall in love with this crap fest?


  177.  #177LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    from the link
    **************************875: Jacqueline 
    Didn’t Rori say, why is it my business what that person over there is doing? ****************
    Monday, 21 February 2011 @ 12:01pm
    And yet,
    Jacqueline has attacked my post during 2 days. She lied about me during 2 days
    I have kept silent until this post here, that am writing now.
    I never answer to Jacqueline’s attacks, I let go, I can’t bother.

    I am so sorry for how much writing this is going to take, but Jacqueline has written tons of lies about “me” during 2 days and I must answer each points.
    I will skip a lot, for the sake of my sanity and the sanity of whomever crazy enough to even care to read this.
    She assassinated my character with lies, she does not leave me another option but answer to her main lies point by point.

    This is the first time I answer Jacqueline’s attack, I want to make clear I never participate in the wars she creates on this board. She attacks, she names me, so it seems like I am part of her war, my name is manipulated around, but I, myself, do not speak to her. I am not part of her wars at all.

    The first time I was silly enough to speak to her was because she had asked me several time to address her.
    She is the pusher type.
    She does not respect people boundaries, she forces them to talk to her.
    She has no “stop” button.
    So, she had insisted for me to speak to her which I finally did only ONCE, it was on October 11th 2010.
    She did not like my post to her, plus she read things in it that were not written.
    She wrote back with insults. I will not repeat here the insults for fear to stain my post.
    I don’t relate to people who use insults, and I had observed she can debate for hours with others, so I thought it was better to go into ignore mode to save the blog from a war.
    That was all, as far as my interaction with Jacqueline.

    I never again posted to her. And I stopped posting on the blog for several days.

    She asked for me to be banned which did not happen.
    She went on posting on a new thread and people jumped in, gossiping ad eternam. My name was mentioned over and over. I was not there, hence I say it were gossips.
    I did not post on the blog for several days, which made it obvious that she was fighting with herself and other sirens, but not with me.

    Yet Rori was sent a gossip and she did not check the reality of it and reacted on the gossip. She left a post on the thread where people were fighting (not me, I had not posted at all) where she asked ME (??? ha ha ha ) Lucy and Jacqueline to stop it.

    I let it go, I did not even bother to email Rori to tell her she got the wrong posters, and that I had not been on the blog during their fights and I had not even fought with Jacqueline at all.
    All I had done was to give her ONE answer she wanted, after which I stopped answering to her.
    I don’t call that fighting. I call it one single clash and blissful ignorance.
    But well, that my participation was lied about in an imaginary war should not be a surprise on a blog specialized in imaginary relationships, so I let it go.

    A few days later, while I was having a conversation with a siren, Jacqueline jumped on my post
    asking for a proof I knew what I was talking about.
    She was playing police woman, as if I had to prove my thoughts which was pretty weird in itself.
    And why would I ever prove myself to her, among all, I don’t know.
    If she does not trust me, she has the option to ignore me and be it.
    Which suits me, as it is my greatest wish on this blog that she stops speaking to me and about me PLEASE. Why would she want to know me if she does not trust me? Pretty weird, I tell you.

    I evidently did not bite, and ignored her demand.
    Then she said I was attacking the siren; she twisted my words, as she regularly does to people, accusing me of the world catastrophes..
    And she insulted Mum and Dad, twisting their love story I had posted on another thread of the blog.
    Her post was the worst despiseful judgmental post against a siren’s family I ever read on this blog.
    I did not bite. Mum and Dad deserved that I did not lower to her level.
    I ignored the insults against my family.
    It simply told me everything I needed to know about her background.

    I posted to her: Answer number 1 said I was having a civilized conversation with the siren, and J should mind her own business and she should not believe that different points of view with a siren means a fight, she should let people have their own interaction and trust they will be fine.

    She posted to me complain number 2 and accused me of things from the ONE answer I had given to her on October 11th.

    I posted to her: Answer number 2, gave her the explanations asked, and I told her I will not interact again with her because I wanted to stay clear of troubles from her.

    She posted complain number 3, and said she will talk to me anyway. She does not take “no” for an answer and she has a personal understanding of respect of the other’s freedom and space.

    I ignored it and that was it.

    I kept silent with her from there. It was in October 2010.

    I kept silent until now, because I got used to Jacqueline’s style.
    She attacks me, I keep silent.
    Then a few weeks later she praises me, she says that **“we” (who ever she includes in “we”, without their permission), we admire you** ,
    then again she attacks me.
    It’s her style, I got used to it, attack on, attack off, I keep silent always, I don’t bother.
    I don’t answer at all to her attacks, and as for her praises I thanked her for only one praise, because I walk on egg shells with her, I never know when she switches back on attack mode.
    The simple fact that she insisted in commenting my posts although I had asked her to not interact with me in October, was the proof she pushes into people boundaries, she is not to trust.

  178.  #178LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    In short J never succeeded in dragging me in a fight with her. No matter what she writes, I keep silent, even when she insults the memory of Mum and Dad.
    I kept silent
    Their love Story is on post 327 from this link.

    This time, J has used twice a siren’s name, Kaitlyn, as a weapon in her cyberwar, with no permission from her to abuse her name. Which puts me in the forced situation to acknowledge J’s attack for the first time since she started this game in October 2010, and to clear things up before she succeeds in stirring sh*t between Kaitlyn and me.

    Also, it bugs me that she used Meemee’s pain as a weapon to attack me.
    It is so not on.


  179.  #179LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm


    From link

    //////////////////////////////////////////////Jacqueline 633
    ***************For me – posts that include “not like other women…” on a public blog by their very nature ARE generalizations.
    Wednesday, 4 May 2011 @ 11:09am ****************


    You will not find the words “not like other women” in my post.

    ***************And that felt bad, esp. in light of what some of us have spoken of recently, like Kaitlyn doing something for money
    Wednesday, 4 May 2011 @ 11:09am *** in 633
    ***************So – life has lessons. We’re all learning. Kaitlyn for ex. might be quite in agreement with LP or totally suicidal about it, I don’t know.
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 2:02pm *** in 163

    Take responsibility for what you think of Kaitlyn’s choices. You consider her action can be compared to a dirty situation, although her name was not in my post and she was not in my mind when I addressed Meemee as the title of my post clearly say.
    You are the one who, when you read the words, “dirty situation”, you associate them with Kaitlyn for your own personal reason. You also associate it to yourself according to your reaction. It is your judgment, not mine.

    I have not seen Kaitlyn complaining about any of my comments to her, so far, or even commenting my post to Meemee.

  180.  #180LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    And make up your mind, am I insulting Kaitlyn or am I supportive of her? Look what you said on post 260 of this link

    Kaitlyn – I LOVE what Lone Plum had to say about your work and your man…hope you post again.

    Jacqueline mystically pontificating…
    Thursday, 10 February 2011 @ 10:50pm******
    Kaitlyn_Please don’t post and run…Loneplum had good advice, several people have had more today…
    Sunday, 13 February 2011 @ 10:36pm*********

    I told you weeks ago that one of the reason I do not comment your posts is that you generalize, which invalidates your words in my world because a generalization can not be true.
    Generalization is your filter and I don’t mind you lying around saying I made a generalization. It is you being you, I got used to it. Hence I kept silent.
    But I want to underline to Kaitlyn in case she feels bad after your words, which I think she does not, because I think she is bright, she can read, and she understands what is going on.
    But I will say it anyway, just in case: Jacqueline is the person who has referred to Kaitlyn twice, to say that reading about a dirty situation might hurt Kaitlyn’s feelings. Why would it hurt her feelings and why not any other siren’s feelings, I don’t know, it is not me who wrote it, it is Jacqueline.


  181.  #181LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    From link
    633: Jacqueline
    *****************unless it’s a good thing to pull yourself up by thinking how superior you are…and then that feels bad.
    Wednesday, 4 May 2011 @ 11:09am ************

    Since it is the notion of superiority that triggered the attack, apparently, I must say I do feel Meemee is superior to me.
    When she reaches my age, I am sure she will be way superior to what I am now. Career wise, money wise, heart wise , soul wise, wisdom wise everything.
    And I am thrilled for her.
    It is possible I unconsciously expressed my feeling about her superiority to me.
    But as why does this arouse your jealousy, it is one of the many things you write on this web site that does not make sense to me. It is my right to judge anybody as superior to me and none of your business.
    It is not in Meemee’s personality to feel superior and even less to say it.
    But let’s suppose she would say it one day.
    It would be none of your business to stop her again in her try to fly off and to tell her it feels bad when she feels superior.
    Nobody ever tells you anything when you say you are gorgeous and men do this for you and men do that for you, or you say you have “a real boy friend home, not like others”.
    I can’t speak for others, but I don’t feel bad when I read you bragging.
    I simply assume you need to brag and that it is helping you.
    I don’t recall anybody saying it feels bad that you express superiority.
    Again I can’t speak for others, I won’t say “we”, like you say “we” when nobody is part of the “we” but you, so I will speak for myself, and say “I” suppose it is good for you to enjoy the moments when you feel superior. I suppose if you need to brag it means that deep inside you are not so sure.
    That’s what the blog is for, no problem. But have the honesty to give back the same treatment when you think that somebody is saying a siren is superior.
    Put a break on your jealousy.


  182.  #182RiverGirl on May 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Lily @ 169

    Haha. Yes! Love the scroll tool!
    I feel a bit upset when I see people getting “testy” with each other and I want to step in and help them see the other person’s perspective and not to be annoyed with each other. I do understand how it can be helpful for people to “punch it out” sometimes in order to see what is really triggering the angry/hurt response.
    In the real world my scroll wheel is the “stroll away”. Learning to let people fight their own battles rather than needing to be the peacemaker.

  183.  #183LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    And remember your own post 702 here in this link:
    ****************************702: jacqueline says:
    And by building one person up, it does not put everyone else down. Maybe it builds us all up, particularly as I am open to input, etc.
    Maybe believing that anyone who differentiates herself or asks about what Rori told her is bad….is judgemental and not open and not supportive? Feels like it.
    You seem to be open to input as long as they agree with your original idea and as long as you got the light on you, is that why you turned Meemee’s story off, to put the light on you?
    Anyway here it is, you do agree on this post 702 that building Meemee up would in reality not put you down. And thinking that building her is bad is judgmental.
    So, what’s up with the hatred and the put down of the story?

    You are free to express superiority on this blog. One siren might tell you she feels bad, but that’s OK, you can skip her post if you wish. It won’t ruin it with lies like you ruin it with your lies and plain hatred about my post.

  184.  #184LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Just 2 small examples, quick, where you brag and nobody says anything about it. .

    You say that you are smarter than all men on this planet in post 507 from this link
    ******************507: Jacqueline 
    whoa, back at you Mercedes! Wow, I was NOT baiting you, I am saying my opinon – as evidence by the ime – in my experience….
    anyway I said that IF one were to debate, and win there would be a looser. I never LOST….lol…I won, even the bad ones – like when I had to take the part of Lt. Calley – who laid 40 people down in a ditch and shot them in Viet Nam.
    My daddy told me my biggest problem with men was that I would never find one as smart as me. Barb – yep, I’ve been there.
    Men love debate they don’t love loosing them, IMO…
    Hi, Sia!
    Have a good one – everyone!
    Wednesday, 6 October 2010 @ 2:28pm***************************
    In the same thread you say you are better feminine than any girl you know 😉 Talk about putting all the other women down lol
    ****************************159: Jacqueline 
    @Daria – I feel annoyed, pushed, shoved, irritable, like screaming and could get absolutely PISSED that you don’t get it. That you don’t honor my reality. I feel upset that you wold think that I am somehow “less than” in my femininity – I mean, did you read the story? How do you think stripers make money – it’s all about being feminine. I can outgirl any girl I KNOW, period.
    Wednesday, 29 September 2010 @ 4:08pm *************


  185.  #185Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Dorothea – is the ‘love’ really a connection you feel?

    We can feel connections with anyone even and sometimes especially toxic people

    Love can be felt even without accepting the man in my life, just through hoping they’ll be well In life

    I wrote this cuz I’ve been noticing my connections and was afraid to lose it if I don’t find a better connection again? And it was so great?

    This I just felt w 19 man

  186.  #186LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Post 403 Tuesday, 3 May 2011 @ 12:53pm
    ******************************403 Jacqueline
    Words written as pablum or reassurance to someone using their specific metaphorical imagery should be marked as thus************

    Which is what I did. The post is addressed clearly to Meemee.

    ************************And express common definitions given to such words that all persons who enjoy a high level of reading comprehension would assume. ***

    3 persons expressed that they understood my posts and it happened I consider they have a high level of reading comprehension. So I suppose I obeyed to your demand.
    Nobody else complained about the meaning of my post.
    Only 2 persons (you being one of them) reacted with aggressiveness to whatever seems to be an issue in their own life.
    They could have taken my post as my freedom to think my way, in case it really meant what you think.
    Or they could have entered in a convo with me to ask how I see their own situation in the world I seem to project in my words.
    It might have cleared things up in a civilized way.
    You opted to switch on drama mode, which is your absolute right. Although I think it is not a freedom, it is a state of mind you have not learnt to control yet. But baby step. I am sure you are trying to work the “give benefit of the doubt” approach and the “let go off” control option as much as you can.

    ***********************Otherwise, one runs the risk of the general public assuming that the words are meant to be read, indeed, exactly as they are written. ****

    Which is how they are meant to be read, exactly how they are written. And since there is not one word that means the same thing to everybody, the usual ways among emotionally stable persons is to ask when something reads bad.

    *************************Simply put, it could make women who are stay at home wives or mothers feel “dirty,” if they are enjoying the support of a man. ********

    Not if they can read.
    Besides, you should mind your own feelings on your own bridge and let anybody who really feels dirty express themselves.
    If you don’t feel dirty you are no minding your business once more.
    Are you saying mothers at home are so stupid and weak that by reading a post at random on internet, they forget who they are and what they are and they feel dirty?
    Are you saying a post can make you feel what you are not?
    Is that why you worry so much for things that are not happening?

    When a post refers to what you are inside you, you feel it becoming real, it feels good, it reminds you what you are and gives you strength back to get back on your horse.

    When it triggers you, chances are it is inside you but you don’t agree with it, you wish to relate to it in a different way.
    If a mother at home should feel dirty in case she misreads my post like you did, well, it will be her chance to wonder why and what is inside her she does not like the way it feels and how to make it feel better. And it is none of your business.

    **********************And, in general, inflammatory labeling words such as dirty vs. clean can be expected to be triggering. Particularly when coupled with a highly charged emotional subjects such as money********

    You really are telling us what words you give us the permission to use! You do think you are the blog police woman!

    Yes, they can be triggering, if you are struggling with these concepts in your life.
    Otherwise, I promess you I can read the word dirty, I am not triggered.
    The post could even be addressed to me, I would ask what was meant, because I don’t relate to me the word dirty, no matter what I read.
    I was a mother at home during 2 years; I was dependent financially of my husband, who paid absolutely everything during 2 years and happy he was to be the provider.
    It was dangerous, anything could have happened to him and leave me with no incomes or back up in life.
    But nobody could have made me feel dirty, I was working to build the family.
    When school took care of my child, there was no more reason for me to spend all day alone, doing nothing.
    Cleaning does not take a life time and was not satisfying to my brain. Staying home could not be a goal in itself in my life.
    My husband told me he was more than happy for me to stay home for ever, he loved coming home to the sight of his wife and child together, cool and enjoying.
    There never was the least dirty feeling about a family choice of life.
    What a so weird idea you have.
    It was my choice to take care of myself and to have a life of my own outside the relationship and the family, with new things to bring into the relationship and the family.
    I need to feel independent to enjoy myself, hence my relationship and I want to feel my daughter proud of me.
    You have not been a mother at home, what is all that noise about? Is that your way to mind your bridge, per Rori, as you say?

    ***************************and even more so when coupled with the concept of who owes whom within a relationship.******

    Which I did NOT do.
    I did not speak of a relationship at all. You are projecting your own problems here.
    I spoke of Meemee and a man whom she stopped seeing months ago and who never had a relationship with her and you know it quite well. It is mean to force people to refer to bad souvenirs when it seems not to be necessary anymore.
    It is not money flowing in the relationship, it is money he owed her after they stopped seeing each other.
    He did not pay back with elegance, he put her in situation where she felt she was leaning forward, he made her believe she was wrong, and the whole situation felt dirty, which it was because he put her in the situation to ask money to a man who told her he did not want to hear from her any more…
    He made her feel she was begging and clinging on him. He made her feel she had to obey to a lover’s will to get money.
    He is not her lover, not even a friend. She handled it without bending to his will and without even meeting him. And she made clear she is not friend and it was a debt he paid, not a favor.
    If you want me to speak baby talk and use the words “icky” or “ewwww” that you used yourself I will try next time, but it means the same thing.
    Babys say “ewww, icky” when they see/feel something dirty.

    ***************************I took it personally ******

    How on earth is it possible that a post titled to Meemee is about you?

    I don’t know what part of your life you consider dirty and I don’t speak to you, I don’t want to address you a post. You know that, you can’t possibly have thought I was addressing you.
    I was not aware you even consider a part of you life dirty. How the hell was I to know the word “dirty” is forbidden on this blog by our policewoman?
    I do know you feel the center of attention and you think the posts are written for you, I have seen you attack others for the same reason you attack me. but I did not realize there was anything to trigger you in my post. On the other hand your trigger is your problem, I don’t have to change my knowledge of life to save you from facing your own truth.


  187.  #187LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    *********************269: Jacqueline says:
    Rori warned me once about “projection” that it happens on the internet and you have to be able to take it. But it’s easier just to ask..************
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 8:37pm

    Yes, it is exactly as you said. You projected on my post the feelings you have of your own life and you accused the author of knowing your life and of writing about you!
    This is absolutely extraordinary. I had heard of this phenomenon happening but you are the first person that allows me to see it happening!
    And, as you say, it is better to ask.
    Had you asked me what I meant, since you force me to speak to you anyhow, you would have saved you the ridiculous show of you murdering a poster with lies while the poster is cheering a young woman. . .
    No Jacqueline, you are not even thought of in my post.
    No Jacqueline, you are not the focus of strangers’ life.

    when it feels like every single person here is yelling shut up!!!!! ***************
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 8:37pm

    Again, it comes from yourself, you wish to make me shut up and you project it on us. Remember, you asked Rori to ban me in October.
    I have never, not once, since I started posting in October 2010, read a post where the poster tells you to shut up.
    I know you are a much older poster than me, you are used to this blog better than I am, so may be somebody told you to shut up before October, but since October I have read absolutely nobody telling you to shut up.
    Posters mind their business, they say what they feel/think and it is in no way a demand to shut up. Or do you speak to be praised and agreed with?
    Do you translate a difference of opinion as a demand to shut up?
    Or do you think because nobody attacked my post it means they are forced to keep quiet?
    By whom?
    How do you manage do shut people up on internet, other than filtering comments?
    The comments are not filtered here.
    They don’t attack my post because they agree with it or they don’t care, or they have not read it or they don’t agree but allow the difference and vote for peace etc….
    It is so funny that every time people do not follow your reaction, you say that posters are told to shut up.
    You really don’t believe in freedom of opinion.
    That could be interesting for you to work on?

    And Lurker – this is a self help blog! Yep, triggers triggers all the time….it’s a way of thinking new thoughts, examining unexamined beliefs and assumptions and expressing emotions. It’s a GOOD thing – per Rori!
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 4:29pm ***

    In this case you are not examining your unexamined beliefs and assumptions, you are not working on yourself and your own life ie your trigger. Instead, you are judging my post, deciding of its value as if you were the police woman of this blog, deciding which post is valuable or contributes well, and which does not. You lie about my intentions which have nothing to do with you real life, you judge what you think are my values, which they have no action into your real life, you are gossiping, minding somebody else’s bridge. This is not “-per Rori”, or at least this is not what I think she means for you to do.

     feels so inauthentic to me. As does the somehow turning the actual event in life into a very self esteeming thing. I mean, aren’t people like bruised from that?***************
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 2:02pm

    Yes they are bruised from that. Thus the work on self esteem. How mean of you to try to undo the uplifting work. And my post does not refer to the abortion at all.
    It refers to an event that took place afterwards and to the inspiring way she made her rights respected. The only goal in the last event, which is what my post comment, was self esteem pushing her to get her power back. She was successful.
    I would suggest you work on jalousie.

    ******************** And I don’t have any personal bad feelings about Loneplum, either. ***

    Lucky me! What would you do then if you did not like me, as it is, you attack me regularly, you asked Rori to ban me, for a post you had not read yet, you insulted my family, and again you murder my character with lies this week.
    You don’t seem to accept differences of opinion and you do believe in making people shut up when you don’t understand them.

    ***************I just hate the belief about money. ***
    What belief? The one you project on me? The one you assume is mine, without asking me ?
    You hate the belief that you project on me or you hate me? Think of it 2 seconds. Not as a war with me, I am being serious, I am not teasing you. But as an opportunity to work on yourself. Surely there is something to grow from, in your attacks to me. What is it in you that is calling your attention for healing when you hate me. Well…when I say “me”… you can’t hate “me” you don’t know “me”, but I hope you do understand a minimum of what I write and when I write “me”, I mean whatever you are projecting on “me” through my posts.

    ******************But I do wonder – is there a point, which is different for all of us – at which we will gladly self destruct or walk away? If we KNEW without a doubt that this thing…would KILL us…but slowly…would we ignore that and just keep doing it? Because that’s what happens when you’ve been beaten down?
    I don’t think so, I’ve seen too many people fight for life.
    But I hear it being said…******

    I don’t know what you hear being said, because I don’t know what you mean or where you are going with this part. I don’t understand at all what you want to say and where it relates to my post.
    May be it is not related, after all, you just felt like writing this out of the blue. In such case, please ignore this part of my post too.
    See, it is OK to not understand a post, it happens to me too. Only I say it clearly, I don’t fill in the holes with lies.

    ****************************But I always want to see a diversity of opinion here and if I’ve got to be the one to provide it, oh well. ***
    Yes, like when you ask Rori to ban me
    Or when you attack M for telling her truth to a visitor. He said his, she said hers, but you the police woman of the blog you decided she had no right to speak. You minded her business and you told her off for her interaction with the visitor, which is her very own business and none of ours at all. You are in charge of the peace on the blog? You? Among all? 😉
    Or when you tell posters off, out of the blue, accusing their conversation about sex to make people leave. You have no idea why people stop posting once in a while. Sexual conversation might be a taboo for you but you can’t decide it is a taboo for everybody else. And even it is for some, they said nothing, they respected people freedom to post. What makes you think you can use others to justify the rules you want to impose to the posters?
    And many other examples.

    ************Most of the time I am triggered because I feel I don’t want others to believe what some people (who never have even the slightest human issue/and or story) say repeatedly. ***
    You insulted the one human story you spotted from me. And, thanks God, you have not located the others.
    Repeatedly? There are things I don’t change my mind about, but I would be curious you tell me what you say I am repeating.
    So your attack during this thread has been about your own trigger on money being dirty.
    Which I did not write, it is a lie, and now you are writing that I am saying it repeatedly.
    Which implies this thread is not the first thread where you totally misread my posts. I ret you to find a post where I say the lie you are posting about me.
    Besides, you are not God, as much as your lie about me is trying to influence people beliefs, people have a will and a mind of their own.
    They won’t believe you any more than they believe me.
    They’ll take what serves them and leave the rest.
    No mater what lie you say about me.
    They will stop posting for sure, chased away by negatives vibes of constant attacks from you, but their beliefs won’t change.

  188.  #188LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    So you are back to hatred again?
    Back to saying I have no human story and I repeat things so armful to women, lucky them they got our blog policewoman to make me shut up.
    A few weeks ago you were saying you are lucky to have me.
    Do you change your mind according to where the wind comes from?

    ******************1003: Jacqueline 
    and LonePlum thank you for your generous spirit!
    and the gift you are!
    Monday, 21 February 2011 @ 3:43pm********************
    From the link


  189.  #189LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    ******************768: Jacqueline 
    Loneplum…I love it…he could drive to your house.
    You have such a clear sightedness about how not to make excuses for men and yet to let them be whatever they’re being.
    It’s great you’re here and willing to share it –
    Highly emotional people, like me!, would forget all about he could drive here…….
    I feel happy when I read your definitive clear eyed views….
    and hope you are having a great day!
    Saturday, 26 February 2011 @ 3:07pm**********************
    From the link

  190.  #190LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    From the link

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////post 110
    ****************How do people know it was without drama?*************
    We know because we read Meemee’s posts and we believe her. She acted with no drama in her interaction with X, she was dignified.
    You really should work on jealousy. You sound bitter that it all went so good for Meemee

    ****************There were tears, sleepless nights, cigarrettes and gym obsessively***
    Yes there were all you said and this is no drama, it is real pain. Although I don’t recall the obsession over gym. I can’t go back and check if it another of your lie. I will take it as being true.

    ****************….an extremely satisfying encounter***
    There was NO encounter which is why we celebrate. She made it the way she wanted it to be.

    *******************and monies paid. But I doubt that this made anyone feel better and can be a huge success?**********

    You are free to doubt whatever in your life.
    But you are not free to attack me and lie about my post because you don’t believe Meemeee about her own feelings.
    She did what she did to feel better and she does. She got her power back.
    You doubt her words, I have nothing to say.
    You don’t believe a dignified attitude can make people feel better. Are you projecting? Are you upset because you did not try the walk away with dignity? You made drama the last time you met him, before you walked away, is that it?
    Is that why me celebrating Meemee’s dignity is triggering you so much you wrote a dozen posts against me during 2 days?

    ************************It may have made Meemee stronger – but to celebrate it as a success feels sad. Maybe as a do-over, one could cautiously say it’s a good thing?*****

    There you go, so yo do understand part of it. It made her stronger, yes.
    OK, so now you feel sad that we celebrate Meemee’s strength. I have nothing to say, it is your way to feel life. But respect mine, don’t lie about me because I celebrate when a woman takes her power back.
    Why cautiously? If it is not a good thing to become stronger, what is the point of this blog? And what do you call a good thing, then?

    *** ***********************My joy is also with Meemee… ***

    Make up your mind, which is it, you celebrate or it feels sad?
    Depends on the wind again?

    ********and I will always be triggered by those who equate money, giving or taking with being labeled….any label at all. ***
    Or you can give yourself a break and work on your trigger to heal it.
    It would allow you to allow people to be free to heal on this blog and to have the judgment they want to have for themselves.
    If they want to feel dirty it is their right.
    If they want to feel clean it is their right too and none of this is your business.
    I commented Meemee because she called for me several time.
    And I do not jump on others’ posts to get triggered by their choices and say it makes me angry !
    How can anybody’s judgments in their own life can make me angry?

  191.  #191LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    95: Jacqueline 
    *******************And I don’t ever ever ever feel DIRTY for anything – and I resent people who would try and make me feel that way. Not that anyone did, unless I just happen to fit in the very very broad definition given.*********

    Fine, you don’t feel dirty, so what is the noise about?
    What definition has been given?
    Who on this blog has tried to make you feel dirty?
    What are you bubbling about?
    As you say, unless a hat fits you, why would you care? So why are you caring about your misreading?

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////post 93
    *** *******************and to validate my credentials, I lived for 10 years with a RICH master manipulative narcississt. And, I own my choice(s). Self esteem in the toilet, maybe.**********
    *******Chose AGAIN if you don’t like your results. It’s an open option for anyone breathing. *******

    It is exactly what my post is about.
    Meemee has chosen a new type of action to get different results and it worked. You are upset against her success and about me celebrating her success.
    In your post 93, you give your life details, you refer to his money to express you anger against my celebrating Meemee.
    I don’t see your point.
    You take the light away from Meemee in my post to make it all about you.
    It feels really weird and sick.
    Her story is not related to yours and I don’t mention your name at all.
    The more I read point by point the more I sense it is about jealousy.
    Jealous of her reborn power?
    Did you suffer a lot from jealousy during your relationship with the ex? Did you feel powerless more often than not? Do you think it could be related to your trigger here?

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////87: Jacqueline 
    **************************In that case, it would have to be called rape***
    It was called such thing at a time given and X himself said it all feels like he was raping her. And you are not the woman who lived the story, you can’t be denying her own feelings and sensations in her own life. What are you trying to do exactly?

    ************************** but no, I personally do not agree that ANY actions I do or do not perform have anything to do with any amount of psychological abuse. *******************

    Do you think making her pain a debate is on?
    We have already chatted with Meemee about the abuse she felt and the responsibility of each in the story. Why do you force her to remind that sad part that is over with? It is not related to the post which you want to make believe is an attack to women.

    ************************From everything I read – and I was possibly the first person to chat with Meemee…so have followed her story – it was consensual. *****************

    That is what she heard X shouting at her when she asked for help during the pregnancy.
    Why do you want her to read his words again?
    If it was consensual we would not have spent hours putting the light on his words that Meemee thought were proof of love.
    I read it myself, he said he loved her.
    He gave her the prenuptial gift, what the hell are you trying to make Meemee feel stupid or guilty?
    She was with him for love or what do you think this web site is about?
    She walked away the third year.
    With no drama, she simply stopped calling and answering.
    It is him who insisted in meeting her.
    She is smart and strong, she reacted faster than you, is that what upsets you?
    Why do you stain her story?
    When she accepted to meet him again, it was because he gave her the prenuptial gift and that is the day of the pregnancy.
    What the hell are you changing her story for?
    The same day or the day after, she made him say he lied to her about the gift and she stopped speaking to him immediately.
    She did not again call or answer his calls. She contacted him only when she had to take the decision for the hospital.

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// post 87
    ******************And if that is so, the guy did good by taking complete financial responsibility for the whole situation *******************
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// post 79
    ****Whoa. The man upheld his committment when many wouldn’t have. It ended well. There’s no need for blame nor name calling. **************

    ???? Who is name calling anybody?
    And are you saying he did a favor, he could have not done anything?
    When sex is consensual the woman must pay for her own torture at the hospital?
    Another of your generalization?
    Is it not enough she risks death, she risks infections, illness, risks of no children later, physical pain, emotional distress for the loss of the child, hormones unbalance, sorrow, heavy soul, on top of it all she should pay half the price of her torture?
    This is for ideas like yours that Meemee struggled so much to feel the power when asking for her money back.
    She doubted it was right to ask for it.
    It is so much like you have done to me so far. One day you tell her to get her money, another day you tell her he made her a favor. Depends of the wind.

    She did not want any favor, over anything else, no favor from him! She wanted it to be understood as her rights be respected.
    You missed the whole point again.
    She made him take complete financial responsibility, that was her battle which she fought in a new way, different actions brought a positive result.
    Why are you making a problem of it and even commenting anything about the man responsibility, we chatted already, it is past, she took her position and she acted.
    Do you want her to doubt she was right to do it?
    I don’t get what you are doing, why attack Meemee’s story and remind her that sad part when it is not necessary any more? The post was not about that at all.
    We celebrated she found her power and self esteem which implies she learnt to get results with no drama. Why do you want to spoil it for us all?

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////post 87
    ******************Manipulation or not, we all make decisions that are not best for our wellbeing, and we all live with the results of those decisions.
    In fact, that’s all we have in life – the results of our decisions. To change our life, we have to own our decisions. To have true power, we have to own our decisions. To be able to move forward, whether by rehashing and healing the past or just from this very moment…we have to own our decisions and the results of those decisions.
    If I am not responsible for my own life, I cannot change it. With responsibility comes power. With choice comes consequence. And it’s all good because you can simply chose again. A better choice that equals feeling better. That’s an admirable goal!*****************

    I don’t see that being opposite to my post or to Meemee’s reality, why even mention it now as part of your attack to me? So I suppose you are riffing, speaking for yourself about your own life. So I won’t comment
    I applaud you for the progress you made in your journey. It is a shame you are attacking Meemee’s story to come to riff on your own story.
    I mean, it is OK to use others’ stories to understand points about ours, we all do that.
    But why put hers down like you are doing? It feels like jealousy.
    Meemee IS applying the principle of owning her life, which is why we applaud her.

  192.  #192LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    from link
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////79: Jacqueline 
    ************Thank you FW but I think Loneplum speaks English perfectly well***

    You and I know that is not what you believe when you are not in attack mode. Here is the proof you know it is better to ask me what I mean when my sentence sounds off to you.

    In the link below, read Post 145 your question and post 168 my answer to you

  193.  #193LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Proof you can ask what I mean when you are not on attack mode.
    *********************145: jacqueline 
    Hello, Loneplum!
    I am curious as to what you meant by this –
    Our boundaries help them define themselves. It gives a price to their sexual desire. They love it.
    The love having a price to their sexual desire? I feel/think that’s not what you meant, or I don’t know what you are trying to say.
    Monday, 25 October 2010 @ 3:07pm**************

    read my answer to you on post 168
    Monday, 25 October 2010

  194.  #194RiverGirl on May 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Daria, I like what you said at 171

  195.  #195LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// post 76 Jacqueline
    Back to the link
    **********************************just money is dirty? ******

    riffing is about your own values, not the values you made up as belonging to somebody you are lying about.
    So if you are riffing about money being dirty it means this is how it is in your life.
    What is all the noise about, the lies about me if, at the end, it is you who end up riffing about money being dirty.
    Riffing is not about analyzing somebody else’s post or judging it. You can’t even judge that it is judgmental. It is none of your business.

    ****************************I love dirty feet – they feel so honest! ***

    That’s a lie, you find dirty feet disgusting, you despise people who don’t look like you want them to look, you are judgmental of some women and despiseful of them like you prove it in
    this link in comment 655

  196.  #196LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    That’s a lie, you find dirty feet disgusting, you despise people who don’t look like you want them to look, you are judgmental of some women and despiseful of them like you prove it in
    this link in comment 655
    *********************655: Jacqueline 
    ************Thank you ladies! You know I do have a feeling! Like when I could see the boob tatoo and the tongue thing and the dirty feet…..I was shudder! Repulsed.***

    I don’t judge you for lying about loving dirty feet and I don’t judge you for being judgmental. I don’t give a damn; I am just saying you are lying about me on the account I am being judgmental. And what if I was? It is none of your businessmen. Everybody is.
    You are one of the most judgmental on this blog anyway.
    That’s probably why you attack me on this

  197.  #197LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////back to post 76 Jacqueline
    back to link, post 76
    *********************What’s the point of the use of such triggering words, what reaction was desired? To make one feel clean? ********
    So you are the center of the world and a poster chose words specially to trigger you? This web site has been created for you. The world has been created for you? The sun rises to put the light on you?
    Do you remember when I told you that one reason I don’t speak to you is because you generalize and it is not interesting, it does not lead to any truth. And the other reason is that I walk on egg shell with you, you think people posts are directed at you. And the last reason is that you misread very often and you lead people in endless back and forth trying to explain to you what they meant. And instead of really reading their explanation you make it a debate with no end.

    See how many posts you have sent just because of ONE comment I made to another siren, not to you even!
    You misread people, you stalk people, you feel the center of attention, you think they speak of you, and you make a huge problem out of your own imagination. There is a medical name for that.
    What is difficult to follow is that deep down you want Meemee to feel better, I am sure, so why all that nasty fuss around her personal sorrow?
    Even if you had misread my post you should have avoided using her story to attack me.
    Or even if I meant what you thought I meant, you still should have avoided to use her story to attack me.

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////post 69
    **********************I’ve never felt anything more judgemental here. ***
    The judgment is yours in this case, you read the word dirty and associate it with Kaitlyn, with yourself and mothers at home and whatever else.
    I think I will let you have the first prize of judgmental comments, starting by the insulting one about Mum and Dad.
    I will put at least a couple more of them.

  198.  #198LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    In my post to Meeemee, I speak of doormate and feet so you say in post 76
    ******I love dirty feet – they feel so honest!*******
    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 12:09pm

    Talk about honesty!!! Look who is judgemental of dirty feet
    655: Jacqueline says:
    Thank you ladies! You know I do have a feeling! Like when I could see the boob tatoo and the tongue thing and the dirty feet…..I was shudder! Repulsed.
    From this link


  199.  #199LonePlum on May 6, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Or this judgment about another woman.
    *****************************270: Jacqueline 
    Hi! wow I got creeped out today – I saw my ex on facebook and he had a picture of the girl after me he married – and she makes my skin crawl. And it’s specific to her; the guy I’m with now’s ex doesn’t do that. She just looks so trashy? trampy? I don’t know….dirty, vulgar.************
    From this link

    Are you saying that a woman who looks trashy, dirty and vulgar is the same as looking trampy?
    What does trampy means, is it related to prostitution? Is it the job where women receive money from men for sex?
    I thought you said it was a sin to refer to prostitutes as dirty on this blog?
    I don’t mind if you say a dirty woman’s look is same as a prostitute’s look, you own your judgment and I don’t bother judging your judgment. You are the judgmental one here.
    I only want to know what was all the noise against me about?
    Why did you lie about me?
    Why did you put Meemee’s story down?


    Yet you lie, you say I do and you say it is a sin to have such judgment

    There you go, your trigger and hatred against my post and Meemee’s story is indeed a projection of your own world and it is indeed related to the drama with your ex, to jealousy and to a dirty tramp who gets to enjoy his money now . The “dirty tramp” in the photo would be a mother at home, I would not be surprised.
    Disclaimer, I NEVER EVER use the expression dirty tramp, I leanrt it just now, in Jacqueline’s post. I used the dictionary to see what tramp means. I am using the expression because it is Jacqueline’s vocabulary in Jacqueline’s world.


    Can’t you do your own riffing to get the results yourself?
    You will have to stop attacking/stalking people and observe your feelings when you get into attack mode.
    There are millions secrets for you to discover about yourself. I am sure you will love it once you get how it works.

    If you don’t have what it takes to learn to do this work; and you prefer judging other’ posts and attacking/stalking, forget me, just plain ignore me.

  200.  #200Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Loneplum – this feels bad. Rori has asked us To ude feeling messages not attacks.

    I felt happy when you first showed up on the blog and attacked Jaqueline, I was all part of it.

    Now it feels weird.

    Jaqueline may not be using compassion all the time, or using feeling messages, but it feels bad to see her attacked and all these projections about her.

    Im feeling angry and numb and heavy and pouty.

  201.  #201Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Loneplum…it’s okay girl…you can stop. you got sucked into it. you’re not alone in experiencing this or feeling this and you don’t have to struggle like this to stand up for yourself. hold on to your energy.

    Jacqueline’s nuts. not all the time (and she’s pretty interesting/cool), but heaven help you (and your boundaries) if you ever do anything to disturb her personal reality.

  202.  #202Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    I was initially triggered by the dirty line in the post to Mesmer and the reason was it felt bad, to talk about how sone women accept money from men but not Meemee . Because I consider myself one of those women who does or would like to and saw that as putting Meemee above me. It felt bad.

  203.  #203Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:39 pm


    This sucks
    I’m just gona focus on me

    Ha lol thanks for the message universe.

  204.  #204Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Hi Boys and Girls,

    I am interested about the triggering issues re Rusty/Nikita/Daria.

    Seems to me that we all here need to clearly understand that the blog is a privileged place to practice being triggered and dealing with it withOUT the blaming judgments accusations etc..

    This has zilch to do with gender. We are learning a communication process to open to others and to hear others, feel triggered (and that is ALWAYS our stuff) and deal with it differently.

    In our playground , we have kids of all ages, ethnicities , genders and cultures in the mix . How great a chance is that to LEARN about ourselves and practice?

    Individual little spats and sniper fire are fine because there is plenty of it out there in the world , and plenty of people who dont play by blog rules, and thats our job here with teacher Rori , to know ourselves and learn to negotiate ourselves joyfully around that world, triggered or not!!!!!

  205.  #205Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Thanks rivergirl

  206.  #206Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    eating a healthy snack now and feeling all intense anxiety and rage simmering down.

    whew, thank goodness. i thought i was going to have to face myself like this all night!

  207.  #207Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Feeling scared and sad

  208.  #208Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    rosa, i like your outlook on the blog and triggers.

    online interactions dont always feel like real world ones, though. we say things we would never say with our mouths.

  209.  #209Lily T. on May 6, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    I feel many times here we form ideas/opinions based on just a few lines someone wrote. That doesn’t include the backround, the ‘whole’ story. When more info is given, the ideas/opinions may change.

    That’s what I observed with the Rusty/Nikita posts.

  210.  #210Mel on May 6, 2011 at 5:56 pm


    Went to the butcher this afternoon and got an “exclusive sale price” on some cuts of meat because I’m cute and friendly. Gotta love discounts because someone thinks you’re pretty. 🙂 Is this what CDing looks like?

    It’s funny, a lot of men have been flirting with me lately. It feels nice to be appreciated and noticed. It also feels a bit sad too because I would really love to receive that attention and admiration at home.

    But all in all, it feels good to know I still have it! 😉

  211.  #211DE on May 6, 2011 at 6:03 pm


    That’s right!!! That is indeed CDing…and the results of it!!! Yay!!! I feel so happy to hear!!!

    Warm hugs,

  212.  #212Mel on May 6, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    My husband laughed when he saw the price and said “I should send you to get meat more often!”

  213.  #213Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I personally feel “offended” , “irritated” , “bored” , “frustrated ” , by many posts and posters here.
    it is wonderful for me to learn to engage and dodge always .

    So I will engage.

    I feel happy with your posts Lone Plum. I feel they have wonderful logic and reasoning is sound and they are honest. These are wonderful traits you have.

    You have a keen eye for observation and you are nobody’s fool. I love that with you around we CANNOT BULLSH** ourselves. Your observations strip off my defenses. I cannot make excuses or pretend to myself ANYTHING when you are watching.

    This is very very good. You have helped me greatly . Just your little comment about the phone number and I hope you got my reply .

    Most of us need our unconscious defenses though, to feel comfortable. I think this cool analysis of the situations we are in threatens our inner secrurity and some people cant cope with that and they lash out.

    I for one am grateful ….and I totally accept that there is dirty money and clean money . I dont care what words you use. No one has a right to tell you its a label that is unacceptable nor try and imply value judgments against sirens and pin it on you. I do not accept their opinions.

    (Incidentally I dont want a man to give me money and I am careful to always pay for a little something, eg the movie tickets and he does the expensive dinner.This frees me.)

    So Lone Plum what I want to know , when all the analysis is done, what are you FEELING right now???

    I am feeling like a DIRTY DIRTY GIRL !!!!! And loving it 🙂

  214.  #214DE on May 6, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Hmm…wow…what a turned around…

    I feel weird reading…lets say uncomfortable…

    While I greatly value LonePlum’s views and insights into matters…I feel afraid…right now, I think of her as a “vulcono”..building up each time reading something I say…and when I least expect it…the eruption would overwhelm me…and crash me…these might just be my own NVs…:( but I recognize them…

    At times I have difficulty understanding J too…it feels like reading the spill of a salesperson…yet, at times she feels real with a big heart…I welcomed her recent changes…

    Yep, I feel scared…once more I realize the benefit of feeling messages being used as soon as possible…

    I feel sad, yet I sure hope for healing for all of us…

  215.  #215Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    (((Lone Plum)))

    I feel the desire to give your little girl a hug.

  216.  #216Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    You too Jaqueline. Hugs to you too.

  217.  #217Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    RE 213 I appreciate your comments Rosa. Loneplum I feel you have been pushed over the edge but it is good I think that you have been able to unload. I feel nervous with the last couple of posts but I believe you needed them for your healing. You have been such a strong sister since I have come her as if you had nothing to heal. I appreciated reading about your family and your life growing up. I feel your rage and am happy that you have been able to let it out. I feel your vulnerability and want to really hug you. I love you as a sister.

  218.  #218Lilybelle on May 6, 2011 at 6:31 pm


    Mel, Nicely done! Getting a special deal from the butcher, I love it!!!



  219.  #219Lilybelle on May 6, 2011 at 6:34 pm



    I hope for healing too.

    I feel scared, like this sacred place for healing, growing and learning will be taken away and *I’m* not done yet.



  220.  #220Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Jaqueline attacked me on the blog the first week I was here and that was many months ago. It was a personal full frontal at a time I was very vulnerable here. I felt hurt and confused.

    I then just jumped over many of her posts . Then when i saw others being attacked I jumped them all.

    I now mostly read others referring to her , so i cannot comment about her actual posts .

    I will say that I was disappointed to see Mercedes leave, and others that may have nothing to do with Jacqueline.

    There are ways of dealing with triggering people, posts, words etc..including the volcano method as above, the exit stage left method as some Sirens have used ,the ongoing skirmish ,guerilla warfare ,or the pretend its not happening selective reading as I employed.

    There is a time for all of them .
    I welcome the volcano method LP , I welcome the walk away that Mercedes used also .
    I welcome Jacquelines imput.

  221.  #221DE on May 6, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Daria #171:

    Gosh, I meant to say something ab it a few blogs back…:(

    I haven’t asked a man for advice in over a year…all men I asked prior…caused me more confusion…and their “advice” unconsciously led me to focus on what a man thinks and what he wants (now, we know of it as “leaning fwd”)…and thus, the advice (insight) disconnected me from what I felt and my natural instinct…

    Yes, I feel really triggered by it…:( Argh…

    I am however, open for dialogue…

    Warm hugs,

  222.  #222Daria on May 6, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    when I first came to Roris blog I first learned to accept men paying for me. Then I supported as best I could other women learning to do this

    I would love to see Rosa feel free not paying for anything at all and feel not dirty around money. My heart squeezes hearing that you pay for stuff to free yourself. 🙁

    I remember Rori saying to not even handle money around a man. Ive had lots of delicious fun melting my triggers around this.

    Andits triggering sometimes I feel afraid to ‘inconvenience’ a man, and it comes from my unworthy feelings

    And it feels great to look back and see just how much better treatment I receive now from men because I’ve expanded my comfort zone.

    And I feel sad to hear about this because, I still want to find support for expanding more…

    Feels a lil sad inside like I’m not good enough to deserve stuff when I think of someone else not allowing themselves to receive. I question me like am I really worthy?

    Maybe I should go back to those man judgements…

    Maybe I should also pay for something..,
    Maybe I am judged for not

    Feels scary

  223.  #223Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    RE 213 Rosa thanks for bringing up the reference to “dodge”. It triggered a memory from something I read from another coach, might have been John Gottman, where he spoke about dodging sniping in relationships. I have to review it. It relieves me to know that we can dodge the bullet sometimes, we don’t always have to speak. At least according to one coach.

  224.  #224Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Mel that was really pleasant ot read. The butcher responding to the siren’s femininity. Congrats. I believe it is up up and away from here.

  225.  #225Daria on May 6, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Yay Mel! Awesome flirting and receiving!

  226.  #226Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    I feel afraid that I may come across as a bit of a “player” on facebook – especially to men who have been hurt by women playing them, cheating, etc. I’m not – really – I’m as faithful as they come… but I do flirt naturally, and I adore men, love their energy, love their hearts… and it shows… and I’m afraid it may be a “red flag” to some… And I’m not nearly this free-flowing when I’m in a committed relationship, but they won’t know that… 🙁

  227.  #227Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    I want to celebrate my day today.

    I feel so peaceful and happy today. This morning I enjoyed hanging out on the deck with LI and the dogs. I felt so good enjoying the weather and feeling the breeze and the sun on my skin.

    I took a bath and then laid in bed with some reading, listened to a meditation, and took a short nap.

    Then we went to the river. The water felt icy but once I got out and dried in the sun, I felt rejuvenated. I felt so happy seeing the dogs swimming and enjoying themselves.

    I started to get really hungry and my blood sugar crashed. I feel proud of how I communicated that and I feel appreciative of how LI stepped up and quickly got us back to town where we shared some fish and chips.

    I’m enjoying relaxing now for a bit while he works for a bit. Then he’s going to make us dinner and we’ll watch a movie together.

    I feel happy and relaxed and feminine. I feel supported and cared for.

    I feel so thankful for Rori and her tools and all of you on the blog and for myself for voting for me.

  228.  #228Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    i think a lot of the time with love and friendships and well all human relationships, things can be as simple as “we’re not getting along right now.”
    and let it pass or resolve it eventually

    but for me, i feel obsessed when anything feels off.

    and then it rubs off on my peeps.


  229.  #229Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    RE 219 Lilybelle I feel you like a scared little rabbit shivering in the corner of a room. Hugs.

    I take it as a lesson of how I respond in the face of true upset/rage. Hopefully we won’t have to face it in real life but most times we might not deal with intense emotion. So for me this is an opportunity to experience it and really notice myself. Can I speak up for myself or stand up in the face of intense emotion? My heart feels the humanity of Loneplum and I sense it is reflective of the article Rori posted above. “Human beats reasonable. Feeling beats thinking.” It seems Loneplum has given up on keeping the family together and I feel even more love for her as a result. Wish I could hold her but I am sending a virtual hug.

  230.  #230Daria on May 6, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Lilybelle – we learn and heal during the storm too. The blog will still be here when the pond clears. Hugs.

  231.  #231Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    It feels healing to me to not whitewash conflict and to not ignore it.

    I learned these tricks in my marriage when my ex would not engage , he would withdraw.

    Instead of experessing my feelings around triggers I stuffed them down . Conflict is a big trigger for me.

    I feel happy with myself for stepping up to observe the conflict and to stand up for Sirens and myself.

    I was bullied at school when i was 13 by a big rough loud violent girl who insulted me and was physically threatening, She threatened to catch me alone and fight me. I felt paralysed with fear. i did not know what to do about it. I hid myself.

    I am not hiding myself now. I am saying women fighting each other is unpleasant and feels sickening to me. Sniping comments feel like overt aggression .
    I feel powerful in my rejection of bullying.

  232.  #232Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Just read DE’s 221… applying it to my fb worries… How do I feel? Happy, free, delighted connecting with men on fb… but also anxious and worried and afraid (for above reasons).

  233.  #233Daria on May 6, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    I am feeling closed off.

    I am feeling judgemental.

    I am feeling pouty.

    I love my feelings.

    I feel ANGRY.

    I feel sigh of relief. I feel smily.

  234.  #234Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    RE 231 This resonates with me. I have mixed feelings in my face, my heart and my hands are shaky. I have been unable to find words to express them. I have experienced bullying on the playground, at home and in the workplace. Where am I not healing myself around this?

  235.  #235Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Thank you Lucy for the nice walk by the woods. Thank you for cleaning up after the dog. Thank you for throwing away the dead lilacs and rinsing the vase. Thank you for feeding me hawaiian chicken salad. Thank you for putting away the leftover soup. Thank you for Dancing!! I loved that! I feel so happy to miraculousy find dancing-energy for me tonight. 🙂

  236.  #236Daria on May 6, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I am feeling dissappinted with 19 man.

    I am feeling confused with my recent li elibera AMD neediness and leaning forward w certain man ‘friends’

    I feel disconnected.

    When I get back from camping, what fun am I gonna have?

    Will I ever have fulfilling sex?

    I feel like throwing up.

  237.  #237Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Breathing. Breathing. Taking deep breaths to release the tension building inside.

  238.  #238Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Daria. Thank you .
    I feel free being me.

    I fully accept gifts from men but I feel free not accepting all of them . I am given much respect for this by men. They have told me they love to give but they love to know I am not always taking.

    My great grandmother was a Suffragette who gave illegal lectures on contraception. She also fought against sectarian violence using her FEMININE energy. I fought for my right to work in my job in the backwash of the womens movement and I fought for the right to equal pay. I work in that area in my masculine and feminine balanced.

    I am learning to be softer and recover my emotional honesty which was lost along the way .

    I accept gifts from men without triggering, but I feel free to be me and honour my great grandmother when i choose to pay now and then. Its my choice.

    I would feel all heart squeezy if i felt that good girls dont pay . I love that balanced girls do pay sometimes and are definitelty dirty and honour ALL their choices.

  239.  #239Lilybelle on May 6, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    229: Thanks FW, Not quite shaking in a corner…



  240.  #240Daria on May 6, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Feel so angry!

    I Never get to have fun!


    Men never last long until they attack me..

    I pick them like that!!!

    I feel pist no sexy man is joking me

    There’s one man

    I feel bored

    Even if they were I wouldn’t feel satisfied

    I feel frustrated

    Hardly any men have been hitting me up online, when if used to be like 5 cool ones daily.


    I miss dancing, I miss sexual attention I miss love

    I’m feeling great and comfy w my family

    My health is getting better

    Hmm maybe this is that inner thing that blocks me from having more happiness than my setpoint.

    I want to change this 🙂

    The hills fur is rippling like the backs of giant cats.

  241.  #241Daria on May 6, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Rosa – what if you accepted it and they then told you they live That about you, that you always accept it…

    Men will love anything about you if they like you and sense it’s important to you

  242.  #242Dorothea on May 6, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    i really like payiing for things and it’s always felt like if i was doing that with a man in a romantic situation, i would be “easy”

    can i please go back to believing it’s how i feel around him that matters, instead of whether or not he is paying for things?

    can i pay for things too?

    ummm i feel uncomfortable now.

  243.  #243Violet on May 6, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Re @ 134: Jacqueline

    Thank you for complimenting my writing style.

    ~ Violet ~

  244.  #244Daria on May 6, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    One can’t fight with feminine energy, though I send honors to your ancestor for using her masculine energy this way.

    It’s possible to not pay and also honor that I think.

    I think it’s not feminine energy to pay. I think we can use our masculine energy but it doesn’t work to connect w masculine men as feminine energy does.

    I feel attacked by your post though I can’t pit my finger on why.

    I feel really angry when women resist the tools sometimes. It really triggers me. I feel totally powerless.

  245.  #245Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Daria ,

    Dont pre-judge please.

    she carried baskets of medicines to rebels under gunfire along with her dughter. The fact she “belonged” to the other faction made it interesting.
    The men escoreted her in in safety once they saw she was bringing healing to their women.

  246.  #246Violet on May 6, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    @ 204: Rosa

    Thank you for writing what you did. Your words very much echoed my feelings.

    ~ Violet ~

  247.  #247Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Hope you feel better Loneplum! I know that was a lot of work to prove…something. I do feel amazed. And that’s kind of it. It’s so far removed from my experience I can’t really react in whatever way you’re thinking I should…but sure, I’m up for doing my own work here with feelings.

    Dorothea – My personal reality? I think everyone has one…and I highly recommend it.

    Daria thank you and love and yeah, I feel funny with a male audience too.

    I do love dirty feet – got some today in the yard, but wow, these prickle burrs have like multiplied into every square inch of it. And I have to wear shoes.

    All the rest is a story around a story and a sh*tload of work for the best full frontal attack I’ve ever witnessed. I feel sorry/sad for Loneplum. I doubt that was what her goal was, but I can’t feel what…

    I don’t even want to speculate about what she wishes I would feel.

    I feel happy. I had a good day. I don’t want to walk away because it will look like I agree. I might want to walk away sometime. But not now.

    This is an interesting thing for me, a contrast from people who have loooong memories and grudges, and the being in the moment.

    Rosa, we all come here to learn, maybe I am not that person I was a year ago?

    One of the reason’s I like to believe people can grow, change and be different. Your voice feels very different to me now, too.

    Thank you blog, thank you Jacqueline. I love you!

  248.  #248Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Daria ,

    I am interested in your triggers.

    I have learned many “ways” and I use the combination that fits best for me. This means he always pays first few dates for everything , later on , I offer when I feel like it, i cook if I feel like it . It feels good to me.

    Thats it.
    I do what feels good to me .
    I choose that which i feel right about.

  249.  #249Lilybelle on May 6, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Actually, FW and Daria…

    Now that I have thought more about how I feel about this..I am healing my stuff surrounding “arguments” and judgements.

    I despise judgements and despise them further when they are given as opinions. It is something that I need to heal and I suppose it is because I have been judged so harshly in the past and know the pain it causes first hand. I have always said I don’t care what others do, as long as it doesn’t hurt me or people I love.. I feel fiercly protective at that point and then, yikes. I am working on healing that in my life and with my own situation.

    When I was kid, it took a lot to push my father to raise his voice but when he did, holy hell…we’d run. I can still feel that feeling in the pit of my stomach…If I had to name it, it would be fear..he never hurt me..he never had to..just raised his voice and that was all it took. hmmm… Now, this is interesting…Wow… My sister is the same way and I have snapped back “in line” because of it, except the difference doesn’t take anything but the breeze blowing to cause her to snap…and I USED to apologize..just like when I was a kid with my dad.. I’m not snapping back in line anymore and that is quite the turnaround.. Interesting stuff….

    I get that same feeling here some days.

    *just keep swimming, swimming, swimming*


  250.  #250Daria on May 6, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Rosa that is still masculine energy. Which is much props because using masculine energy for a cause is wonderful.

    And I don’t like being told what to do or being guessed that I’m doing so. Even if there’s a please added on to a demand.

    One cannot ‘fight’ with feminine energy.

  251.  #251Daria on May 6, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Feeling sad cuz sometimes I read, judge the poster as having issues or resistance to tools and say nothing, feeling disconnected powerless and

    Superior which feels bad cus I feel inauthentic to make that judgement

    Then if I try to address my trigger in the moment I feel… Stuck.

    Right now I feel judgemental and sad

    And afraid.

    Ive berm engaging in a masculine style debate here and i feel guilty

    And i feel exhasperated annoyed amgry and powerless and

    I love my ferlings super anger!

  252.  #252Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    177 What?????? Rori asked me to “stop” something??? I did not see this! I feel scared and angry. What did I do “wrong”??? Can someone please post here what Rori wrote to me? I feel like crying. I am sure I must have been misunderstood!

  253.  #253Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    It would feel good to be hearing a feeling statement
    using Rori’s tools, Loneplum.

    Lucy – I don’t know what that’s about, I scrolled through a lot of it – but you’ve had a hard day I’m hearing….

    Hugs and love and I wonder – what do you want to accomplish with a dose of masculine energy? If you want, I’ll try and help you find some motivation for whatever energy you want to use?!


  254.  #254janjune on May 6, 2011 at 8:10 pm


    go to bed early *one* night and so much happens on this blog in 24 hours that it’s impossible to get caught up 🙂

  255.  #255Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Lucy: I think it was a long time ago, October, when a debate was going on. I think LP included the link when she referred to it.

  256.  #256janjune on May 6, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    in my experience on this blog,:

    Triggers are Blessings disguised as Pain.

  257.  #257Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Lucy: I don’t think it’s anything to worry about now.

  258.  #258Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Although I guess it’s an opportunity to work through a trigger.

  259.  #259Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Yeah, I’m getting a lot of emails about how long ago those comments were pulled from – it feels good to get such support.

    I feel curious tho, for those who have gone trigger happy over my name –

    what do they want me to do? Hurt myself, give myself a bruise, go smash my car into a wall, prostrate myself for a good kick in the kidneys, leave so they can be proven correct (ewww)….

    The last time Mercedes left it was because several people said they would go out with a guy who had a girlfriend, nothing to do with me. But this time, wow, she’s become a martyr….

    I feel pity that people are so wrapped up in this judgement. I feel slightly scared that they feel kind of crazy to me. I feel tired of being everyone’s trigger. I don’t want to be on a blog of crazy women.

    Logically, I suggest that if RORI had a problem with me, it would be handled by her; and that if anyone misses Mercedes she indeed has her own blog so you can go visit her there.

    And – if I don’t make you feel good – please ignore me; yeah I’ll take THAT one!

  260.  #260Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    I notice that I just shared a few “I think”‘s which I feel okay with yet I also am noticing that I feel a bit disconnected from myself now.

    I want to get back into my feelings.

    I feel peaceful and calm.
    I love that I feel peaceful and calm.
    When I breathe into my vagina I feel a little sad.
    I love that I feel sad.
    My little girl feels neglected.
    I’ve been giving my brain stimulation reading the blog and answering emails.
    My little girl seems to be crying out for attention.
    I want to stop and attend to her needs.
    Thank you little girl for speaking to me.
    Thank you masculine energy for listening.
    I feel good with all my parts in alignment.

  261.  #261Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 8:43 pm


    “what do they want me to do? Hurt myself, give myself a bruise, go smash my car into a wall, prostrate myself for a good kick in the kidneys, leave so they can be proven correct (ewww)….”

    Hi! I can’t really speak for anyone else. I would like to share though what I am hearing “them” saying.

    I am hearing people say that they don’t want to be attacked or have their words misconstrued.

    Really, that’s pretty much it.

    I feel clear with you. I feel good about how we discussed our issues and I feel good about letting the past go.

  262.  #262Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    LG, thank you. I was afraid maybe I missed a “redirection” from Rori on the last thread, but from what I can tell via phone that is not the case. I feel relieved. I guess I have a trigger around “getting in trouble.” 🙂

  263.  #263Lucy on May 6, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Jacqueline – thank you. What do I want to do with masculine energy? Lots of things… paperwork, housework, get my computer fixed, shop, write, recreational activities, reconnect with friends, go to church, bathe and groom my dog…. etc.

  264.  #264Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Meanwhile I’m still crushing on hottie McHottster 🙂

    Is my crush a crutch?

    Is it a distraction?

    Is it just a tool to get my mojo going again?

    Is it spring fever?

    I dunno

    But it’s all mine.

    My stuff

    I feel sleepy….have to work in the morning

    Feel angry that I haven’t just said- hey you! Who the f*ck is in Croatia? Can I catch a break? Can I just swoon about hottie mchottster ?

    Swooning in session

    And then I say:

    If he’s not in front of me,he doesn’t exist

    Mmmm, but I feeeeeeeeeeeel him, I can, I feeeeel him….I breathe him in…..I feel cloaked in him……I do

    So now what

    Do nothing?

    You know what feels annoying? Hottie Mchottster invited me for new years and I almost went bcuz the bf(LI) was talking about “being out of town” ha! I thought-yeah, go out of town! I’ll be snuggled up with hottie mchottster. But noooooooooooooooooo, I stayed home with LI bcuz he decided he wanted to just be low key for new years……If I had known about these emails I sooooooo would have spent new years away from him!!! I turned down a new years date with a hottie for what????? For what??

    To keep the peace? For ethical reasons? Meh!

    I’m losing energy to the past!!! Omg! That’s it! I feel drained by that decision. He wanted to spend it with ME
    I could have had a fun romantic new years but noooooooooooooooooo I stayed home on a couch with a man that couldn’t even plan anything-he wanted to watch the ball drop on tv….really dude? Really? The ball?

    I am still wishing I went!!!!! I need to tap on that…..asap

  265.  #265Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    264: Nikita says:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Meanwhile I’m still crushing on hottie McHottster

    Is my crush a crutch?

    Is it a distraction?

    Is it just a tool to get my mojo going again?

    Is it spring fever?

    I dunno

    But it’s all mine.

  266.  #266Jim on May 6, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    204: Rosa,

    Very well put, thank you!! xoxo!!


  267.  #267Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Hi, LG – I don’t do those things; maybe I did a year ago?? but haven’t heard anything like that in a while. I’ve been hearing a lot of thank you, you helped me’s.

    And ummmm, that then makes it fine to attack me?

    I actually want to leave myself, but I won’t because of all the attacking of me. It would feel cowardly.

    But today felt definitely “unhinged.” I don’t want to be around that.

    So – for me – the question is how best to honor myself.

    Thank you for your reply, it seems to downplay the major hostility to me, though.

    I’m glad that I’m in a happy good place personally right now, big time – it’s a huge relief and feels so good.

  268.  #268Nikita on May 6, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Swooning in session

    And then I say:

    If he’s not in front of me,he doesn’t exist

    Mmmm, but I feeeeeeeeeeeel him, I can, I feeeeel him….I breathe him in…..I feel cloaked in him……I do

    So now what

    Do nothing?

    You know what feels annoying? Hottie Mchottster invited me for new years and I almost went bcuz the bf(LI) was talking about “being out of town” ha! I thought-yeah, go out of town! I’ll be snuggled up with hottie mchottster. But noooooooooooooooooo, I stayed home with LI bcuz he decided he wanted to just be low key for new years……If I had known about these emails I sooooooo would have spent new years away from him!!! I turned down a new years date with a hottie for what????? For what??

    To keep the peace? For ethical reasons? Meh!

    I’m losing energy to the past!!! Omg! That’s it! I feel drained by that decision. He wanted to spend it with ME
    I could have had a fun romantic new years but noooooooooooooooooo I stayed home on a couch with a man that couldn’t even plan anything-he wanted to watch the ball drop on tv….really dude? Really? The ball?

    I am still wishing I went!!!!! I need to tap on that…..asap

    Wow-I got stuck in moderation for the “F” word. Yikes

  269.  #269Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Lucy – this is kind of something Dorothea was talking about. The daily doingness of self care.

    The way I find motivation to use my energy is by the result I want. Like if you want to use your computer bad enough, you have to get it repaired.

    If I want to find a way to stamp out those prickle burrs in the yard I’m going to have to find a weed killer and water as we’re in a drought….so how bad do I not want prickle burrs? And weed and feed will more than likely burn all the yard…so how do I overcome that?

    I start like that….and with all the trees and now poision summac growing and having to be treated, maybe I let the prickle burrs go til rains come, or next year – houses are great for yearly projects.

    But in general, it’s do things in small increments, and do the hardest stuff first. Or the stuff with the biggest payoff.

    I’m proud of you that you walk every day – and what about your roses from last year and Happy Mother’s Day! and isn’t the graduation like in THREE DAYS!!!!


  270.  #270Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Jim – in light of your earlier conversation, so if both people are having this conversation knowing the relationship is over – they are done – but then they stay in the relationship for whatever reason – ennui, fear, finances, comfort….

    could we then say the relationship itself has a sort of life of it’s own?

    Because I hear a lot of people who are still in a relationship knowing it’s “over?”


  271.  #271Laughing Goddess on May 6, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Jaqueline: I hear you and I don’t want to minimize or downplay your experience of the situation.

    Ultimately though that is the main point I am hearing from those that have been triggered. That’s how I am interpreting the words I’m reading anyway and the energy I feel behind them.

    I don’t want to see anyone get attacked…not you, not anyone.

  272.  #272Jacqueline on May 6, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Thank you LG – I feel heard. And I do want to take a break, so maybe this is the good moment for it.

    I’ve tried to slowly become less personal here, make it more of a way to learn from others experience without attachment to the person, but that’s not me. I get attached easily.

    And I’m not going to quit being me to do what anyone else wants of me.

    If there was a point to what LP posted I missed it, all I got was wow, that’s obsessive and feels unbalanced and stored up and unleashed and so self serving. I can’t be used to make her feel better…you know? I feel used and maligned.

    And tuned out – the conversation’s not even the one I’m here for.

    So, if the conversation’s going to uselessly spin about me, I’m not learning anything that I’m here to learn.

    I’ll give this some feeling time…and in the meantime rest easy that you all will be well.

    Hugs and grace and peace
    and passion and fire and spice!


  273.  #273Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Thanks Jim.

    I like being triggered now .Its a signal to go on a hunting expedition for my “stuff” that brings it on.

    Example. Daria triggered me when she said she wanted to see me “feel free not paying for anything and not feeling dirty around money ” .

    I dont feel money is dirty, its just an energy, it has no value as such . I dont feel “dirty” means much , its just a descriptor.
    I feel triggered around not feeling free ,any way I want to feel free ,to pay or not as I choose. I dont want to feel free the way someone tells me ! Daria’s freedom is not the same as my freedom.

    This trigger is about being told to do it someone elses way. Its also a trigger about other people who want clear scenarios and rules in life for themselves and then think it will be what i want too.I am very independent naturally and I have had to learn to accept help. Am I too independent?

    I like being me.
    I like my own rules.
    I can feel my freedom when i choose what feels GOOD and it doesnt matter what others want for me.

    I feel REALLY GOOD having empowered and educated myself and worked so i have resources and I can choose to pay occasionally if I want , when I feel good offering.

    I would feel really bad just taking money and meals all the time from men and never contributing , reciprocating or at least offering something.

    I love having the choice.
    What do you think?

  274.  #274Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    Also Jim ,

    I posted a comment on the blog for you about your lady friend with cancer .
    My response was how it feels being “that woman” .
    I dont know if you read it .

  275.  #275Daria on May 6, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    Ok just jaf some bad feeling energy show up in real life… Family had low blood sugar

    We ate and ft better

    I riffed and riffed to myself

    Feel curious about the powers of riffingafter I was able to use it to shift my energy around a task I didn’t want to do a few days ago and got to want to do it and did it effortlessly

    We are in the mountains and this commentdoesnt have internet to post

  276.  #276Daria on May 6, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Rosa sorry for any hurt I may have triggered by engaging in a masculine voice power struggle w u

  277.  #277Rosa on May 6, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Thank You Daria for your apology , and I dont feel wronged.
    I felt triggered about having things MY way and doing what I want , it was enlightening,

    I am sorry if I hurt you .
    I admire your working on yourself to receive freely.

  278.  #278Daria on May 6, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Thanks rosa… I feel triggered too cuz i hear your thoughts talking to Me as nvs.

    “I would feel really bad just taking money and meals all the time from men and never contributing , reciprocating or at least offering something.”


    Oh no this feels bad nv.

    But i AM contributing something, no rori told me before i had a drive to contribute … And that was a block for me to getting in feminine.

    I Am enough! I am enough!

    I offer my presennce, my attention, my Receiving and my Not pushing back by reciprocating. This is enough! I swear to you daria its enough !!! Even if Rosa doesnt think so or men Think that they wont like it or that its not enough it is it is it is!!! It is more than enough and i love you i love you so much and you just gotta keep doing it and all women will start feeling good in feminine energy and the world heals! I love you daria.

  279.  #279Alicia on May 6, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Feeling to do win over thinking!!

    Watch this clip!!!!!! 🙂

    (or copy and paste it) It’s such a bingo about feelings:)!

    I had the funniest AHA moment watching The Real Housewives of Orange County..

    Check out Tamra’s visit to a pychic when he says’ What are you FEELING?

    And she says okay..

    He says that is NOT a emotion. She says like a roller coaster?

    He say that’s not a emotion..

    She cries and say’s guilty..

    He’s says.. You are being SO REAL! Look at my arm GOOSEBUMPS.. (and he’s the man)

    (Her feelings gave him goosebumps! In real life!)

  280.  #280Alicia on May 7, 2011 at 12:01 am

    And ps.. then he says.. You feel more real right now then anything you have previously said!!!!

    Must Watch: 😉

  281.  #281Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Lying on my bed with many pillows and cushions to support the painful bits, eating golden kiwi fruits and ruby grapefruit from my CD , contemplating the autumn afternoon sun through the window…it feels ok.

    I feel searing knives of pain when I move certain ways.
    This feels strengthening because it reminds me I am lucky enough to have this surgery to restore symmetry and beauty to my body.

    I am getting up again soon to do some simple cooking for my son and I .

    I feel gratitude to have a computer in my bed with me.
    I feel grateful to have a CD send me stuff and call me and text me from Dubai!!
    I feel good having another CD texting me grumbling comments about Apple store queues. I feel nice being his distraction.

    I feel sad that the GMan hole is still not fully healed . He felt like my one great love many times and other times he felt like my nemesis. Now he feels “there” . This usually means he is in my country when i feel him around and intruding in my thoughts . In the past I would think on him in return and he would usually contact me . I believe in telepathy. I am emptying my thoughts of him. I asked my unconscious mind to do the same so I dont manifest that contact. It requires a certain type of focused think/feeling him to establish contact and I am deliberately not doing it…

    I often pick up the phone before it rings and I know its my son and then it rings.

    I am now going to spend 5 minutes in trance think/feeling my special mates presence , like SLV’s Calling in The One.

  282.  #282Jacqueline on May 7, 2011 at 12:08 am

    Because I am me…and I get to have my own reality – and my own blog…here’s what I really think!

    Why do people store up a litany of grudges and then unleash them upon the world? Is it because they hate you, or is it that they hate themselves?

    If someone writes enormous, copious pages of notes dissecting what I’ve said to prove how wrong I am – but the notes are from a year ago – and out of context, what does that prove? That they’ve been obsessed with my words for months, or that they didn’t understand my words to begin with?

    I think it’s interesting that people have such an enormous need to ”prove” to themselves and the world how right they are. If someone proves I am wrong, so what?

    Did I say I was right? Did I promise to be perfect? Did I fail them in some way?

    Are they so in love with me that they feel they must take my hand and lead me, line by line, to the light contained in their way of thinking?

    I keep getting cautioned to edit myself, to “watch” my words….to package and product myself to be likeable and loveable.

    I won’t do it. Ever. Can’t, don’t want to. Don’t have to.

    And I am a lucky girl – everyone should get to be so authentic in their life. I am happyproudgratefulstrong….it’s a great day to be me!

    And I know this is not just individualized to me – to read more about it, and the problems attendent with it, this is a fabulous link to Michele Toomey, PhD.

  283.  #283Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Daria ,

    Its not about ” all women feeling good in Feminine energy” . You may keep hearing NV’s if you are trying to convert all women to your reality.
    I like to be in Feminine energy mostly with expensive dates , sure , who wouldnt? But expensive restaurants and theatre tickets , sure he can pay. The coffee shop ? Sure I can offer.

    Rori and your conversation is good for you .
    I have done this, just receiving stuff , and I just keep getting back to my feelings .It feels good at first while getting to know a man. I dont feel good just receiving for too long . For me its about what feels right for me. Its an energy phenomenon.

    If I had no assets to share I would need to feel good just receiving. AND I feel BAD when a man requests me to pay or share costs .It feels bad like he should be adoring me with money !!! Am I not adorable enough??

    But later on I feel i need to offer small amounts , eg parking meter change, the tip money , because it flows the energy of my money . Money in , money out .It feels good!! If he declines , that feels good too.

    Because I am much older than you and am used to paying for raising my boys , my medical care , mortgage etc, I am used to the energy of money going out as well as coming in.

  284.  #284Daria on May 7, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Rosa it is about all women feeling good in feminine energy. My dream.

    I feel attacked. This is my nv when i read your words and ill hear it even if i dont expect stuff.

    My post was not about converting but about me.

    I feel judged to hear about your age. Bs i say.


    Because im younger than you my brain works more clearly… Touche? I didnt think you would like that. I dont like judgements on me because of my age either.

  285.  #285Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:33 am


    I read your post.
    Yes Daria and I are trying to prove how right we are:)

    Differences of opinion feel interesting .

    Triggering reactions interests some people because they enjoy the reactions.

    My understanding of this is that LP felt provoked many times and that she said nothing till the provocations went past her threshold and she “blew” . Hopefully that feels good for her now. Most thresholds do.

    My observation and mind read is that you like the reactions you get which is why you enjoy not filtering your words.

    I beieve LP felt provoked by generalisations and specific comments. I did not feel provoked or triggered myself because I just had a filter that said they werent important comments.

    I realise that now, and i apologise for thinking you had nothing important to say and not reading your comments.

    I would wonder how being authentic feels different inside to being unfiltered?

    I feel authentic when I feel heard by the other. i felt very authentic when Daria heard me and spotted the cause of our difference and apologised for her part . I then apologised for my bad too. And we have both continued respectfully disagreeing and working on the triggers we have.

    I wonder if you feel heard Jacqeline?

    I wonder if there is something you need in order to feel your authentic voice is heard?

  286.  #286Daria on May 7, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Hot guts.

    I love my hot guts.

    I feel powerless.

    I dont like when people use their age to make a point. Make that especially trying to say they are better or more authorutative than me.

    I could say well ive been on roris blog longer so im more familiar with the tools and how to use them. And i think rori who recommends receiving is older than me also.

    Yeah she recommends it because many women are uncomfortable surrendering and really believing they dont have to pay for stuff, and wont be selfish, they feel scared to be judged as golddiggers, or just plain uncomfortable surrendering cuz its triggering its more comfortable to hold on to control…

    And ive had lots of paying my 50 50 or even paying for dates because i had money all before rori. I looked out for my brothers and bought them food clothes and rides on a daily basis for years and have plenty of experience with caretaking.

    Thats where roris comment to me that i seem to have a thing about ‘contributing’ and then the work i did to give that up.

    Dear daria no i wont let you be invalidated. I hear you. I hear your anger. I hear abd embrace your desire for all women to feel comfortable in their feminine energy and heal the world.

    And even though youre scared that even having this dream means youre trying to convert people to your reality – and that that is an unhealthy control thing – i validate you that it doesnt mean that, that you can share the awesome feeling parts of your experience and inspire others and say No to beluefs that feel bad even when they come from the computers and mouths of other people.

    No, thats not about daria. Thats not true about me says i.

    Judgement reject.


    Rarg shaking off judgements

    Love my anger and that feels like sigh.

  287.  #287Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:39 am

    Daria ,

    I meant at my age I had done a lot of energy exchange re money in my life. This is a life experience and not a criticism of your age or experience as such. I am sorry you took it that way .
    I think its being a supporting mother that contributes to the money/energy flow in my life.

    I also think men of my age have money very often and its not such a big issue.

    I also love women being in feminine energy but for me I dont want that all the time. I also want my manly man to come to me sometimes when he needs nurture, but mostly it will be the other way around.

  288.  #288janjune on May 7, 2011 at 12:39 am

    today i found one alternative to online dating.
    the boathouse area at the lake.
    i feel safe there.
    and there were lots of men.

    i took an hour for myself today, with my camera, and got permission from the man at the boathouse use one of the docks and to come back and use it later.
    i told him i feel safe there and could i come out and spend some more time there this summer taking photos. he said yes and told me which areas were off limits, so, i will be doing that — going to the boathouse for photos, sunbathing, work on photos on my netbook… and being around the available men. yay!! i love it at the lake.

    i kind of talk to one man who was at the dock. he had the cutest little dog… i stiffened up talking to him. i know i’m giving feminine energy signals but actually felt myself stiffening when he talked to me. i cut it short. i felt embarrassed. i felt. needy. i felt conspicuous. i felt obvious.

    and actually noticed my arms and legs felt like cardboard, i was so self conscious about possibly appearing like i was looking for a man… which of course i was 🙂 lol
    i know i will heal this because i don’t really feel this way about men, i know my energy is the truth but i AM giving mixed signals to men right now by being and feeling warm and open and inviting and then when they step up a teensey little bit, i stiffen up and go blank.
    i recognize this as ANXIETY, right now, as i’m editing…
    rori’s Tools are like magic. feel the feelings, identify that with the feelings in your body! it works like magic i tell ya! 🙂
    okay so all the going blank and not knowing what to say can now be handled by me KNOWING ahead of time that if someone i want to talk to approachs me it’s *going* to happen and i am now aware of that and can prepare myself for me to do that (get anxious feelings) and tha’ts the way that will be overcome or dealt with and change.d
    thank you!
    i can do that!
    i will heal.
    i just meant to type IT will heal. 🙂
    *I* will heal is right.

    then i had to move a small piece of medical equipment on wheels from a building down to my car. one wheel was hung up a little, i was kind of bending over looking to see what the prob was and then straightened up and started pulling it again. a man i hadn’t even seen or noticed in the building suddenly was right behind me and said, “can i help you with that?” i started to say “oh no i’ve got it, thanks”, like i always do, but i said “Nnnnyes! thank you!” i haven’t gotten to the 5 second look yet, i’m still at the one second look but i did the one-sec look and smiled and then *purposely* looked up when i knew he was pulling out of the parking lot.
    then got the equipment home and the guy from the company was coming to pick it up.
    i got ready to work in the flowerbeds — old baggy gray sweatpants, an ugly old flannel shirt and i pulled a stocking cap on my head then put a garden hat, like the kind with the floppy brim over the top of the stocking cap — it was kind of windy and cool…
    when the driver pulled into my driveway, i headed for the equipment at the same time he did. we landed in about the same spot at the same time and he stood there smiling at me.
    cardboard again.
    he said “I like your hat.”
    i was dumbfounded… my HAT? I look like SH*T and he’s noticing my Hat?
    i laughed and said “oh yeah”, and laughed again.
    he said “it looks good on you”.
    and we just stood there smiling at each other.

    that’s about as close as i get…
    i always break energy with them RIGHT … *THERE*.
    can’t wait to work my way past that point.
    i think i’m close.
    i feel closer to a breakthrough on it just being aware that it continues to happen and that now i’ve even pinpointed where the energy break is.

    i’m feeling kind of excited.
    i feel much closer to meeting men i want to meet.
    guess i’m going to have to step up for myself and eventually do the 5 or 4 or 3 or 2 second look to get past this.
    i feel nervous a little, about it.
    it will be okay.
    it will be fun.
    i can’t want.

    went by the new little winebar to check it out but it is only open in the evening.

    plus i actually mailed the letter i wrote the other day to J that made me feel rockstarry… dropped it in the mailbox with a prayer attached.

    babysteps, babysteps…

  289.  #289Daria on May 7, 2011 at 12:40 am

    If i am saying my authentic truth that is enough, even if i dont feel heard i hear me.

    Its me that hears me and i am enough.

    Even if habot has made others hearing me hold a more powerful impact, its enough for me to hear me, and i can retain and habituate myself to self validate.

    Sigh of relief.

  290.  #290Daria on May 7, 2011 at 12:42 am

    At my age i have done a lot of energy exchange around money too.

    Just like im sure at both our ages we have a lot of experience, say… blinking.

    Nevertheless i or you may have something about blinking that the other can learn from

  291.  #291Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 12:44 am

    281 Jacqueline, I see it just as LG said – quite simply, people (including LP I believe) just don’t want to be attacked or have their words misconstrued. Choosing to not attack or misconstrue does not diminish our authenticity – it can actually enhance our authenticity as we look for undefended ways to express ourselves instead. We are all learning this here, including LP, and none of us succeed 100% of the time. Hoping this doesn’t trigger you… love and hugs. <3

  292.  #292Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 12:48 am

    268 Jacqueline, thank you. 🙂

  293.  #293Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:50 am

    I actually am not triggered by who actually pays .
    I am not triggered by age or authority . I have had none and much of both at times in my life:)

    I am actually triggered by feeling bad when I notice I have been picked up on not having “the right” or “acceptable” belief or dream or goal.

    It feels like being criticised for not accepting biblical stories as creationist truths , or not doing anything “by the book” , whatever that rule book is.

    With great respect to Rori , I feel her rules help many women, and they sure helped me, but I choose not to accept them as literal commands as a Book of Rori.
    They are wonderful advice and functional overall but there is room to take the bits which work for me and do lots of that, and modify other bits according to my culture and lifestyle and life experiences.

  294.  #294Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Jacqueline, I am curious – who is cautioning you to edit yourself, watch your words, package yourself….? (If you don’t mind sharing.)

  295.  #295Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 12:52 am

    Daria ,

    I am giggling about “holding a more powerful impact” . That is an assumption!!!

    Where is the evidence that you or I have any impact with our views except on each other? 🙂

  296.  #296Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 1:00 am

    Janjune went down to the lake today
    In search of a bunch of guys,

    Janjune went down to the lake today
    wearing a hat surprise 🙂

    Every guy that ever there was ,
    Was there to flirt at the lake because ,

    This year is the year
    Janjune is having a flirt fest !!!


  297.  #297Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 1:01 am

    I loved hearing about your day by the lake Janjune
    and your hat 🙂

  298.  #298Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 1:05 am

    Hot Guts and stocking hats ,
    I am giggling off to the kitchen for a while

  299.  #299Daria on May 7, 2011 at 1:10 am

    I could pay for some stuff… But why?

    1. To reassure him that I’m not taking advantage of him

    But why?

    Because I don’t trust that he’ll ‘see’ me enough to know I’m not taking advantage of him

    Because I’m worried that if he doesn’t ‘see’this without my help, he will leave

    Because I don’t deserve to be taken care of 100% because
    it’s not ‘fair’ and I’m worried I’ll be judged as unfair or selfish

    Because I believe no man will take care of me 100%, so I better make it 90% to increase my chances of keeping one

    Because I judge other women who receive a lot as selfish. Why?

    Because I learned it was selfish a long time ago

    Because I learned masculine values, like hard work contribution and fairness over feminine beliefs like attraction, receiving, and compassion

    Because I don’t feel safe having him pay. I feel a loss of control and I don’t feel comfortable there, in the unworthy, uncomfortable feelings with nvs of ‘he must be judging me’ ‘it’s not fair to him for me to receive’

    ‘IM NOT GIVING BACK ENOUGH and he won’t like me he won’t stick around, my receiving does not feel good to him, my contributing feels better

    If I believed my receiving felt better, I would not try to contribute.

    But I don’t want to believe that receiving is better than giving. That’s against a deep belief.

    And yet it is, I know the extra energy needs a black hole to go into… I know sperm comes out the man and Into my hole, he Needs to give to me

    And I give back juice (emotional show of enjoyment) I give
    back the reception of his sperm (not blocking him) I give back babies (magic relationship)

    I give back so much more by receiving.

    I don’t have to give back with money. I can sure. But it will feel not as good as not.

    And if my beliefs are that I’m unworthy unless, that I won’t feel good unless, I want to heal them. So I can show up full femininity. So I can show up full healing power.

    I intend to heal this now, and I intend to heal the other stuff that’s drawing judgements to me.

    I love me.

  300.  #300Daria on May 7, 2011 at 1:20 am

    Hello nvs! Yes I know you want to tell me that through other people, saying no to beliefs that feel bad will seem like picking on people and for ing them to go by the rules.

    I know you know I have a trigger around this nvs, that I’m too ‘bossy’ and try to control people by making them go by the rules and

    I now declare this agreement that I experience myself this way as null and void in all my cells.

    This no longer serves me.

    And I know that stating my beliefs out loud, and saying No powerfully Outloud is about me.

    And I love you.

  301.  #301Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 1:35 am

    Daria, I am watching this money conversation with interest and curiosity… my own beliefs taking shape, changing shape… I’ve always been good at receiving but do have some internalized judgments around it. Recently I rec’d my gall bladder surgery bill and when my ex was here I held up the bill and said “I don’t know how I’m gonna pay this.” Then I couldn’t help myself and a smile slipped out. He laughed and watched me a moment, then took the bill from my hand. I feel mostly good about that.

  302.  #302kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 1:50 am

    I feel worthless unless I have a good career. I feel like I won’t attract love until I have a good career.

  303.  #303Daria on May 7, 2011 at 1:51 am

    Lucy – lol. I feel smily reading that.

    who says we can’t feel smily in front of a man when we don’t know how were gonna pay for something.

    I’m realizing I was feeling the sane way I did when I felt like I was pushing you and Brenda awhiles back.

    So that means, refocus on me, My nvs, my healing… Cuz it’s right under my consciousness – it was then.

    Other people’s words only trigger me because it’s something for Me to heal. Yay.

    This felt freeing to address my nvs and reassure them we are worthy and are wonderful being in receiving.

    And Rori does talk about giving back… Though that can be a thank you.

    I feel triggered when I think I hear I don’t feel comfortable without contributing from the nvs… Cuz I’m like, ok where are you coming from Nv.

    I feel Magical to not contribute. It feels like floating in silent connection and majestic queens. It feels like honoring the masculine and giving him full respect.

    I feel like I’m honoring the man and the connection feels deep and wordless.

  304.  #304Daria on May 7, 2011 at 1:54 am

    Kaitlyn – I’m healing and get triggered by nvs around that one too.

    Big time.

    Suddenly I discovered now I want 4 kids and to homeschool them rather than career.

    But I also want to be a powerful admired healer and teacher and performer.

    I love being admired and I question maybe I’m using that to cover an unmet need?

    Not sure yet, intending to heal this.

  305.  #305Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:00 am

    🙂 Yes. I think I must’ve been having a thought: “I should look and feel sad when I don’t know how I’m gonna pay a bill.” But apparently my heart did not believe that. 🙂

  306.  #306Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:05 am

    Kaitlyn, does that theory apply to everyone or just you? Do you think I am worthless and won’t get love since I don’t have “a good career”?

  307.  #307kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:05 am


    This may trigger you, as pretty much everything triggers you, but I feel like REAL men want a woman who can bring something to the table other than just her happy, smiling face. And THEN they will feel inspired to take care of you. Just being a wife and mother isn’t a goal. Especially if you expect one guy to support you and 4 kids.

    Jacqueline and LonePlum, I like you both.

    ALL DUDES on here…I like you all. Lurker, Rusty, Jim, etc. Stay. And not just because you’re dudes. You all have valid points and I like your discussion styles.

  308.  #308kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:07 am


    I can’t decide that for you.

  309.  #309kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:08 am


    I suppose I was speaking for myself. That’s all I was feeling was about myself.

  310.  #310Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:11 am

    Kaitlyn – I hear you thinking that. And it’s just not true as Rori teaches.

    They just want a woman’s smiling face :). With authenticity and vulnerability.

    Being a mother is a worthy goal, maybe the deepest mystery of creation and what keeps life breathing.

    Feels sad that you would think not, but it’s common, that’s how we crash here in siren island, starved of femininity fighting for our best man self. That was me, anyway.

    And I dont want to be attacked

  311.  #311kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:12 am


    It’s a natural human condition to want to be admired. How will you go about being admired for being an awesome healer and teacher? That’d be a great profession for you and you’d enjoy it. It’s a 2-for-1.

  312.  #312Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:14 am

    Dear nvs I love you and you can’t stop me.

    Gone into super power land.

    I love the sound of dogs barking. I feel safe, reminds me of falling asleep in Romania.

    I am by mono lake.

    It feels really comfortable here.

  313.  #313Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:14 am

    Just being a wife and mother is an Awesome goal! Daria, homeschooling was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done – it is so exciting to teach and learn with your own children, to discover their individual learning styles, gifts, and interests and support that… to share the magic when they learn to read! … and to leisurely read all sorts of books together… and create literature-based unit studies… Glorious!

  314.  #314Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:18 am

    Kaitlyn – I don’t know how, but then I’m learning how I’d the question that blocks manifesting. My plan is follow my intuition and be myself. It’s already started manifesting.

    Janjune – I received your ten dollars and silver paper. Thank you. I felt awesome to unwrap it. I put them up as leaves on my money tree.

  315.  #315kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:19 am

    Rant: Sick of the c*ntbag on Adam’s fb always trying to impress him with her knowledge of some obscure director of some obscure film he likes and some obscure band he likes where the guitarist’s elder brother’s other band had a custom made guitar with serial #27272829–889qt4r0980 and a full marshall stack with glass tubes made of wood preserved by trappist monks sand from the sahara desert. yep obviously just checked my fb for first time in days. thank god she lives far away and isn’t his type. oh wait, she has a masters degree and doesnt have a permanent std. i forgot.

  316.  #316Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:20 am

    *I’m learning that ‘How?’ is the q that blocks manifesting.

  317.  #317Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:23 am

    I think Daria is already admired for being an awesome healer and teacher… and her sphere of influence and admiration will keep expanding.

  318.  #318janjune on May 7, 2011 at 2:23 am

    The words in your comments to me sound silly and giggly and “I’m with you” but they *feel* passive/aggressive. i don’t feel understood. it feels like the subject and feelings i’m expressing are being made fun of or at least being downgraded.
    that just doesn’t feel good!
    it would feel better to me to have you say what’s on your mind, if you have something you’d like to say to me, as opposed to me guessing. that way if i have something i want to say back, you’re giving me the chance to do so and if i decide i don’t, i won’t. and that would be then end of it.
    but this just doesn’t feel good
    or heathy…

  319.  #319Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:24 am

    Lucy thanks for sharing!

  320.  #320kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:24 am

    Why am I on here now? My bff and I have a flight to catch for work tomorrow and it’s not like I got sleep from the other days of the project.

  321.  #321janjune on May 7, 2011 at 2:24 am

    healthy 🙂

  322.  #322janjune on May 7, 2011 at 2:25 am

    g’night goddesses ~~~~

    sweet dreams

  323.  #323Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:29 am

    Feeling fear. Heart still vibrating like a bell.

    I love my fear.

    I love my vulnerability

    I feel surprised to feel suddenly attacked

    I remember this pattern from shifting belief work in the past… Suddenly nvs echoing past beliefs attacked me from different directions.

    I remember babystepping and it all clearing out like minesweeper.

    I’d like to feel safe.

    Separate people from beliefs.

    They are all my nvs.

    Everyone is innocent worthy lovable.

  324.  #324Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:30 am

    Thanks Lucy! And a performer as a dancer :). Yay!

  325.  #325janjune on May 7, 2011 at 2:32 am

    daria 🙂
    i just scrolled up before logging off…
    i’m glad you got it! i’m glad you liked it. 🙂

    it’s late here, i’m going to sleep.
    loved what you were saying tonight. i had another vibe shift reading your words and riffing…about receiving from men…can’t wait for tomorrow 🙂
    blessings to you for caring
    g’night zzz zz z

  326.  #326kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:32 am

    I hate being of somewhat familiar knowledge and adoration of stuff someone I like likes (um yeah take a guess who as usual), but shy about asking them to tell me more for fear I’ll look too eager and leany forward. Especially when what they like is uber-specialty sub genre obscure.

  327.  #327Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 2:33 am

    Why ? Too .

    I just de-energised my part of the discussion Daria as i felt I had learned what needed learning for me.

    That it is ok blend and meld my many parts and much experience and form my own Rules for Me .

    This feels amazingly good . i dont have to be a perfect siren or a wonderful MEK follower or live life through baggage reclaim , but all of these roads and blogs have helped me tremendously to know who i am.

    Thanks Daria for shining a light on who i am.

  328.  #328Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:34 am

    Goodnight Janjune. <3

  329.  #329Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 2:34 am

    Lost me Kaitlyn!

    I am wondering if you have smiled at any nice men today?

  330.  #330Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:35 am

    Janjune – it’s possible! The 5 second look was soooo hard for me. I totally cardboRded for years.. I dint know if u remember me whining about it

    But I changed it with Goddesses energy, and by saying ‘I’m all that’ right when I cardboard

    Now I can do the look and OMG / lifechanging, it’s a superpower … Magnets in my eyes.

  331.  #331kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:37 am


    Does the tranny ringing up my purchase at the art supply store count?

  332.  #332janjune on May 7, 2011 at 2:38 am

    i’ve got to quit scrolling up and go to bed 🙂

    i hope you can put the fear out of your mind.
    there is always a pull to go “off course” when you’re growing.
    listen to your *SELF* 🙂 the one that’s moving toward a new direction, not the nv’s— (yours or anybody else’s)

    i really mean it this time… lol

  333.  #333mali on May 7, 2011 at 2:39 am

    Re 99 DE: Thankyou for your thoughts 🙂
    My job is only part time while I’m studying…. I’ll be leaving in a few months. Sure, I feel incredibly frustrated at times, but it does have its perks. I have a tendency of just “getting on with it” instead of talking. I allow myself to be me when it gets quiet, and focus on doing my own thing. I think it’s due to that, many men at work are after me. Too bad I don’t like ’em, though! There are a lot of masculine-feminine dynamics that go on at work, though. The men are definitely very masculine, and so I automatically go into feminine mode…

    Re 90 Jacqueline: I do love you, you gorgeous woman! *wink* It’s a lot of fun being able to enjoy what men have to offer, and I feel wonderful being looked after- even by having the door opened for me at work… 🙂

  334.  #334Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:40 am

    Uber-specialty sub genre obscure is my kids’ specialty – nothing to fear, Kaitlyn, really, it’s just stuff. When I ask my kids questions about it they often laugh bc I am asking the wrong questions, like “Who is so and so?” when it is actually a What. 🙂

  335.  #335kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:40 am


    Ok that was snarky and discriminating. I probably did smile at someone male today. I don’t think about it. The ‘warm, open, siren’ part of RR came the easiest to me when I lurked a bit here last year.

  336.  #336Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:42 am

    Thank you Janjune blessings received.

    I feel surprised to read rosas words triggered Janjune .

    I felt safe reading them and uplifted… A sisterly song vibe.

    Guess this was not my trigger: aha message! Thank you.

  337.  #337kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:42 am

    333 Lucy,

    If your kids listen to a band called A.C., they are cool kids. A.C. is the abbreviated name. Don’t get me started or else you’ll take their ipods away lol.

  338.  #338Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:42 am

    Daria and kaitlyn I don’t know why Rori would say that is not true because I know of guys who think that way and have said that. I know of both single guys and married guys who think that way and have said that. My experience is that they not only think that way about relationships but life in general. One in particular uses that philosophy even with his son. Whatever his reason or worldview I don’t judge him for it, for me it just is. He will even excuse himself from a conversation with someone who he feels is not bringing anything to the table of the conversation.

  339.  #339Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 2:44 am

    Wow janjune,

    That feels confusing and bizarre.

    I was celebrating your Springiness and the joy it brought me ,

    You obviously are triggered .

    I still feel good about the happy feeling you gave me in your earlier post .

    I am happy to comment in serious tones if you would prefer.

    umm..lets see.

    I was delighted by your fun day .
    I received vicarious pleasure from you describing your man interactions.
    i loved the reference to gardens and hats . it set me in mind of springtime joy and well being .
    I felt like singing in celebration.

    I did sing .

    You wanted me to say something that was on my mind . Nothing was , just a feel good feeling.

    You thought I was judging you?

    That feels bizarre. I feel in body the “illogical “feeling when surprising things dont make sense, its a heightened awareness feeling, looking for the attack that may follow… 🙂 I still feel smiley too.

    I cant believe in my thinking mind that you took offense at a joyful song I got when you described your day. I can sure feel your prickliness radiating at me…


  340.  #340Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 2:45 am

    Oh and “feeling” passive/aggressive????

    How does that feel exactly Janjune when you are feeling it?

  341.  #341The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 2:46 am

    #152 “I know I don’t want to ban men because I love it when Evan or Jonathon Aslay show up – but I need to make firm rules for all men here.”

    With a lot of honest respect, Rori, but imho this statement makes it look as if the presence of three (3!) male commenters, with every now and then another guy like Evan showing up, is a problem that needs to be regulated. This requires an answer. Especially since it is attached to Daria’s rant, which seems like an endorsement of her negative feelings.

    Firstly, I have written several times that I’m concerned that male comments may change the vibe here, that this has to be avoided, so I’m aware this may be a problem. And I really try to avoid triggering any Sirens negatively (you may be surprised to hear that, but I often rewrite comments several times before posting them). However, I don’t think walking on eggshells all the time can be the answer.

    Imho (and that’s my subjective male view, of course) it’s not the few guys here that are a problem in the first place, it’s some of the Sirens who have misunderstood what the trigger tool is good for and how it shall be applied. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s about dealing with negative feelings that are triggered by our surroundings, by an action or a part of a communication, right? It’s not about judgment, but about learning to live with these triggers, which are unavoidable in real life, because we can’t completely control our surroundings. And it doesn’t say at all that the trigger necessarily is objectively bad or an attack, most of the time it will be unintentional or even a total coincidence. A single word that brings up negative memories, something that no other person can be aware of (because they are no mindreaders!), can trigger us. And the point is to deal with this in a way that reduces the impact on us, not to put the blame on that person who triggered us in the first place. Did I understand that correctly?

    Well, it seems to me that some Sirens still have to work on that. Because, indeed, there are countless examples that read like “I feel triggered. YOU made me feel bad!”. Uh, that’s not exactly how it should be done, with the unhelpful “Y” word, or is it? And to make matters worse, in many such cases this trigger is based on the purely subjective interpretation of the “victim”, which isn’t something that the “offender” can influence in any way. Again, nobody here is a mindreader, we can’t foresee all possible interpretations of even the most harmless statements (like thanking you for weighing in in a discussion). Imho that’s a real problem, and maybe a new story about the trigger tool, and pitfalls to aoivd when using it, may be a good idea.

    Now, some Sirens here focus more on triggers than others, and in my totally subjective view it looks like a few investigate every single sentence written here on its emotional impact on them. Which isn’t very productive, imho, because this habit can only lead to be more often negatively triggered in real life, not less. I don’t think the goal is to become nitpicking about what other folks tell us, but to become more tolerant and more confident that we’re able to handle negative emotions that still come up every now and then. Nitpicking is quite the opposite of this, and only makes other people less comfortable in your presence, because they fell they’re walking on eggshells. Not helpful in real life, and not really helpful here, either, imho.

    Ok, now back to the male presence here. Actually, the point above isn’t gender specific at all, as should be obvious by the response of those Sirens who feel they’re walking on eggshells here, too. So, this isn’t something we guys should be blamed for. Which leaves me wondering, what else may be a specifical problem that can and should be pinned on us guys? That we’re more judgmental than the women? Are we really? Lots of judgments expressed by the Sirens here, too, and I don’t think we guys are the worst “offenders”.

    Is it the general issue that men communicate with a stronger focus on the rational side of things, while women voice their feelings more often? Well, uh, guilty! We can’t help it. But is this a problem? Now, this prolly is a bit provocative, sorry for that, but I have to ask this: If some Sirens have issues with communicating with well meaning and usually laid back guys like Rusty, Jim or me, how do they expect to get along in real life, where they meet men who are more “difficult”? Is the presence of just three guys, a small minority among the commenters here, really a problem that needs regulation? Or isn’t it rather, as I see it, general, not gender specific issues like judgments and personal attacks that add a bad vibe here and drive some readers away?

    Just my two cent. Personally, I want to add that I’m a bit annoyed by the way some of my comments were misinterpreted and then tjhe misinterpretation used to blame me for triggering people negatively (without telling me which statement actually was the trigger). It doesn’t help much if a Siren later acknoledges she misunderstood me, only to say in the very next sentence that she’s afraid of me. D’oh. I don’t want to make you ladies afraid and I don’t need such unnecessary drama. To react on this, I will post less, especially I will try to avoid irony and humor here (obviously, some here can’t cope with that). Before I have to walk on eggshells, I’ll rather not walk here at all, but go elsewhere.

  342.  #342Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:48 am

    Kaitlyn – maybe you can ask anyway in order to be ‘authentic and vulnerable’. Ie instead of strategizing what he’ll think, notice your insecurity and share it

    Like hey I feel awkward and insecure to talk… I miss you desperately… And I feel curious about dali’s film… Tell me more

    That’s something I would use, it would defchange the vibe from superficial to vulnerable and real. Feels scary like TMI .

    Mm. Maybe a smooth transition to that depth might go better… I heard smooth transitions in communication are important to maintain a connection

    I feel afrAid that one may be Jarring. I would sti use it though,

    Aha moment: I have an addiction to ‘shock factor’

  343.  #343Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:49 am

    Kait, I have no idea what’s on their ipods anymore! I trust them though, they are smart and wise and good. I will ask them about that band.

  344.  #344Ella on May 7, 2011 at 2:49 am

    Hey Gang,

    I have not been on for a while… things have been too hot and a lots going down.

    Can anyone tell me what pic/gravatar is showing for me right now cus I changed it but I still see my old pic.

    I need some anonimity to feel safe enough to blog right now, and I want to be able to blog…

    Hope you are all well.


  345.  #345Ella on May 7, 2011 at 2:50 am

    Ah… its the new pic, but the old one still showing on old threads?

  346.  #346kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:50 am

    “Now, this prolly is a bit provocative, sorry for that, but I have to ask this: If some Sirens have issues with communicating with well meaning and usually laid back guys like Rusty, Jim or me, how do they expect to get along in real life, where they meet men who are more “difficult”? Is the presence of just three guys, a small minority among the commenters here, really a problem that needs regulation?”


  347.  #347Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:51 am

    Lurker to a certain extent I understand where you are coming from around the triggers. I at times feel like it is unnecessary drama but part of the point of the blog is people exploring their triggers. My response is to ignore them most of the times. I find it draining and can only imagine how it must feel to men in real life.

  348.  #348Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:53 am

    RE 345 kaitlyn I did not understand your comment.

  349.  #349Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:53 am

    I have a trigger around “passive-aggressive.” I have noticed that most people don’t seem to understand what it actually means and use it to mean…who knows? Something else. Like they use it as a cuss word or a diss. Hehe. Yeah, that’s it! I get triggered and want to “explain” what p-a actually is.

  350.  #350Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:54 am

    Ella cant see it clearly but it looks like bushes

  351.  #351kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:55 am

    Sometimes triggers here are like shooting stars that flake and dust before they hit the ground.

  352.  #352Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:55 am

    I would appreciate if you would Lucy. In the past I felt it was indirectly pointing at me without saying it and it came across as sarcastic to me but I ignored it.

  353.  #353Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:56 am

    RE 350 hhhhmmmm

  354.  #354kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 2:56 am

    345 is internet speak for ‘i agree’

  355.  #355Daria on May 7, 2011 at 2:56 am

    Femininewoman – guys may think they want something but really not want it.

    For example guys think they might want a woman to lean forward to them but is not really what they want.

    Contributing, fairness, etc is very important trait in masculine worldview. I would feel comfortable for a man to teach it to my son.

    Feminine worldview may not make sense to a man, yet attracts them nevertheless.

    Rori is of course huge on the benefit in relationship of ‘receiving.’

    Many other feminine power courses are out there that we don’t need masculine accomplishments to impress men. They are actually attracted to feminine women that are great receivers and appreciators, not necessarily accomplishers.

  356.  #356Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 2:58 am

    I think I will make a blog law that nobody can write “passive-aggressive” here. Oh YEah – Rori already Did!!! She said “no judging” – and of course it is a judgment so it falls under Rori’s blog rules. It will now be a sub-division of Rori’s no judging rule, and I will call it Lucy’s Law.

  357.  #357Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 2:59 am

    kaitlyn I think I have read somewhere that Lucy’s kids are grown, one is in college. Mine are still teen and preteen so I am curious about that band.

  358.  #358The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 3:00 am

    Rosa, thanks for #204 and the follow ups, and also thanks to LG for #261! Good points.

  359.  #359Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:02 am

    So Daria I am understanding that as something unconscious on their part. As such I have some confusion around categorically saying guys don’t want that. If that is what they say I respect that and step back because it is not feminine.

  360.  #360Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:03 am

    Lurker I appreciate your presence as a human being.

  361.  #361Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:04 am

    Thanks kaitlyn for explaining. I was wondering if I was the only one who resonates with the statement.

  362.  #362kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 3:05 am


    Great tip on the expressing curiousity. Thanks.

    “Rori is of course huge on the benefit in relationship of ‘receiving.’

    Many other feminine power courses are out there that we don’t need masculine accomplishments to impress men. They are actually attracted to feminine women that are great receivers and appreciators, not necessarily accomplishers.”

    Hey, I’m all for receiving from men. But what exactly is a masculine accomplishment? What if a woman was the creative director for Vogue? Is that a masculine accomplishment? Or is it masculine because it has a high social value attached to it? And really, accomplished men adore accomplished women. You can be accomplished and siren-y and receiving. No guy wants a woman who is just an empty vessel existing through receiving and appreciating. A man wants a woman with her own narrative. Isn’t that what Rori teaches inconjunction with learning how to stay in the feminine by receiving and appreciating? I say yes.

  363.  #363Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 3:06 am

    Hey Lurker,

    Love this bit ..

    “I feel triggered. YOU made me feel bad!”. Uh, that’s not exactly how it should be done, with the unhelpful “Y” word, or is it? And to make matters worse, in many such cases this trigger is based on the purely subjective interpretation of the “victim”, which isn’t something that the “offender” can influence in any way.

    I agree this happens all day long here. i have been involved in two examples this evening.
    I still see people reacting ,
    Not in their power, just reacting whenever they feel triggered , usually with mind reads and judgments.

    Obviously it takes a while to get it right.
    As I understand it , i will have it “right” when i understand the Jungian theory fully , that that which triggers me fully is ME , that which I most reject is ME , the more I “think” its them , its something in ME that I need to heal.

    That triggered feelings are in fact a flag saying “over here! ” dig and ye shall find what needs healing.

    Its a total trigger fest on here some days ! maybe lots of healing happens then.

    The blog gets stuck when people become hypersensitive to criticisms that they mind read into words on the blog .

    I would like to point out that at least 95% of our communication is NON VERBAL , that is we are severely hamstrung on a blog to make ANY kind of judgment based on written words alone.

    I was just now accused of not taking a post seriously enough and this was a total misread based on not seeing me . I was up out of my bed, stitches and all, smiling and waltzing around my room!!!!!!!!!
    The siren concerned said my joyful song “felt passive aggressive” , whatever that means ..


    I like you lurks. 🙂

  364.  #364Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:07 am

    Femwoman – I feel confused about stepping back, from…?

    There’s no stepping forward involved. Guys say all kinds of stuff, I dont personally find it helpful to screen them that way but rather by how I feel around them over time.

    They will say they want supermodels, polygamy, to never marry, a woman who beats them at playstation Madden, etc but none of that matters

    What matters is are they stepping up over time, do I feel
    good about myself around them

    They will screen themselves out. Once they want a woman, what they thought they wanted becomes less important.

  365.  #365Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:08 am

    kaitlyn I had posted some time ago something from another coach that was suggested that accomplished guys are attracted to certain types of women and the women when married go out and create their own niche. For me Daria’s expression comes out as if it is only this way or that but I believe different things for different people and different guys are attracted to different things. Only in real life we see what really works. Some guys like size 16 women while some like size 6. They just have different preferences. I don’t believe it is black and white like that.

  366.  #366Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 3:09 am

    Hey Lucy i broke your rule!

  367.  #367Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:11 am

    RE 363 maybe not the best choice of words but what I found in expressing myself. I sit and listen I don’t step forward any more but I used to.

  368.  #368RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 3:11 am

    Daria @ 354
    “They are actually attracted to feminine women that are great receivers and appreciators, not necessarily accomplishers.”

    Daria, I don’t believe that receiving/appreciating and accomplishing are mutually exclusive. I know that good men are attracted to me because I can do all three.

  369.  #369Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:13 am

    I also believe it depends on the level of maturity and where people are in life.

  370.  #370Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:14 am

    Dear Lurker, you have been triggered. The idea of you guys being a “problem” came from inside you, not said or implied by Rori. Her rules for us women include “don’t use boy voice.” So, she has to establish somewhat different guidelines for you men bc of course she wants You to use boy voice – yet she wants it to be relatively safe for us to practice vulnerability – so it seems she is searching for how to achieve that balance. And there was no implied endorsement of Daria’s words -perhaps only an incorre

  371.  #371Lily T. on May 7, 2011 at 3:14 am


    I felt pleased this morning to read the posts you wrote while I was sleeping. The resonated with me. ALL of them. 🙂 Thank you for writing what I felt, but wouldn’t write myself so as “not to make waves”.

    Also, I find myself questioning today whether “masculine energy” and “femine energy” are absolutes. And opposites. Is it possible they are sometimes “blended”? Can we be in both? Ebbing and flowing? I feel in both, sifting, suspended, through much of my day. Why should staying in femine energy be preferrable to the flux?


  372.  #372Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:15 am

    incorrectly inferred one. 😉 <3 Lucy

  373.  #373Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:15 am

    Kaitlyn – yes director at vogue is a masculine achievement. Any achievement is masculine. And that’s ok! That’s a fuchkin (emphasis) great use forasculine energy for a woman.
    And guys Are attracted to empty vessels. However, they will also like an accomplished woman and find that sexy, but it’s not what Attracts them.

    What attracts them is the feminine and receiving.

    And yes Rori encourages us to use our masculine energy to change the world, like batting voting rights or doing top editing for vogue.

    These are all cool and great and men will appreciate this as they would appreciate sexy lips for example, but neither the accomplishments nor even sexy lips is what attracts them and makes them fall in love and commit for life.

    What makes them do that is more the empty vessel thing.

    So yeah I think we cam do the accomplishments, but they’re for Us not for attracting men.

  374.  #374Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:16 am

    By the way Daria I am totally open to experimenting with what you have said. I have experienced men who are that way but I cannot say all men in my world are willing givers.

  375.  #375Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:18 am

    RE 372 Daria I am experiencing that as a comment on how attraction works. I hope it is emotional attraction being referred to and I believe I get it.

  376.  #376Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:19 am

    p.s. Lurker, thank you for rewriting comments to try to avoid triggering us!!! Wow. and Awww. That feels good! I feel honored and protected to hear that.

  377.  #377kaitlyn on May 7, 2011 at 3:20 am


    What if past the attraction stage, men are looking for women with something to bring to the table. Like accomplishments.

  378.  #378Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:20 am

    Masculine feminine is a constant flow throughout the day maybe each second. The power I’d in the ability Ro flow into feminine and not get stuck in masculine.

    Rori has some articles about this which she calls ‘switching hats’. Boy hat to girl hat boy hat to girl hat.

  379.  #379RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 3:22 am

    @ 372
    I understand your perspective better now Daria

  380.  #380Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:22 am

    Daria thanks for sticking around to explain.

  381.  #381Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:23 am

    Kaitlyn – there is no ‘past’ attraction stage… It’s always about attraction – emotional attraction.

    Men are looking for a woman they feel like a man around – ie they can be in masculine energy with – that they feel safe with emotionally ( we inspire this with authenticity and vulnerability)and also thrilled by (we inspire this by having boundaries)

  382.  #382Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:29 am

    Yay I feel all safe and good.

    I’ve experienced men that seem to hold back , it could be the boymen thing, I suppose they will filter out by my boundaries.

    Also some men are feminine energy men – who may work with a masculine energy woman. ( something to explore )
    I have met Some men like this I think.

    Mostly I think men in feminine energy are not yet mature/ healthy, may be boy-men as Rori says. Sometimes they can mature quickly when attracted to a feminine woman w strong boundaries.

    Though personally I believe almost all men would like to ne perceived as masculine, therefore they want to feel masculine with a woman ie they want to ne in masculine energy.

  383.  #383Lily T. on May 7, 2011 at 3:30 am

    #340 Lurker
    Yep. Great post.

  384.  #384Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:31 am

    I just realized I have a tendency to push forward by asking questions, many times tough questions, to get more. I am now sensing that this masculine and maybe the reason I have struggled in my career. Figure I have to balance this by switching hats depending on who I am dealing with as the work environment is about achieving. For me it is challenging because of the different cultures, I guess particularly those that are male dominated and believe in the traditional role of the female. I have experienced what feels to me like masculine men who take the feminine role to support a really strong boss.

  385.  #385Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:34 am

    354 Daria, I love that last sentence! That is For Me!! It ties in with that self-acceptance thing Queenbee was noticing for me today. I have been growing in receiving and appreciating (and will do more!) but have felt some shame about not accomplishing. I don’t need to feel that shame.

  386.  #386RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 3:34 am

    Dr Paul talks about people usually attracting someone of the same maturity level. Perhaps if we are attracting men who are often in their feminine energy, it is because we are often in our masculine energy. And perhaps that is ok if we are both maturing at a similar rate.

  387.  #387Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:38 am

    FW, two in college (one graduating next wk) and one graduating highschool next month.

  388.  #388Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:42 am

    Ahhh Thanks Lucy

    Yes RiverGirl I have heard Dr.Paul. I believe somewhere also Rori speaks about choosing the side that we want to come primarily and respect the masculine if we choose the feminine. I believe if the choice is discussed it is okay to switch, however the danger is that women tend to get drained to the point of feeling resentment over the long haul. However, I believe we can go back to the table and renegotiate the commitment.

  389.  #389Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:42 am

    “I could’ve blogged all night, I could’ve blogged all night, and still have begged for more… I could’ve spread my wings, and done a thousand things I’ve never done before… I’ll never know what made it so exciting, why all at once my heart took flight… I only know when they began to blog with me, I could’ve blogged, blogged, blogged…. all night!”

  390.  #390Daria on May 7, 2011 at 3:43 am

    Yay I brokethru the nvs and am now feeling admired and good.

    Wondering if this is part of my ‘need to contribute’ hmm

    Also I think it will be good to start giving Myself the admiration I want from others.

    Like yeah Daria you’re an awesome teacher!

    Feels scary!

    I have this thing about being called ‘bossy’ that I cam EFT to heal.

    Intending good sleep and blessings to the Goddess voices in my floating journal. Thank you for showing up, thank you for reading, hope you feel the pleasure in a breath. Feel the thrill of a change that feels good.

  391.  #391Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Why should staying in femine energy be preferrable to the flux?

    Thanks Lily T .

    Thats the crux of the matter. You said it much better than me.

    being in either voice is not a value judgement.
    Becoming AWARE of when we are in each is an aim I aim for.

    And CHOOSING feminine when i want is my choice..yep..feels GREAT!

  392.  #392Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Lucy , no singing on the blog 🙂
    It seems to trigger people …

  393.  #393Ella on May 7, 2011 at 3:50 am


    Feeling very confused and out there right now.

    Feeling lonely and alone.

    Feeling unconfident.

    Punishing myself with too much alcohol.

    I think it is that isn’t it… ‘punishing’ because when it is not really fun.

    This is just today really.

    So I moved in with my friend and her boyfriend who had been together for 1 and a half years, and were known as the best/happiest couple.

    And it soon becomes apparant that there is trouble in paradise. They have been arguing for the last 2 weeks, ever since moving in to the house that he renovated for them.

    And suddenly she is staying out all night, relationship has gone bad.

    And then I spend some time with her and find out she has been seeing/sleeping with another man.

    Her b,friend is 16 years older than her and she isn’t happy. Her feelings have changed and she wants to be going out, having fun and dating guys her own age.

    She has never not been in a relationship. Reminds me of me at her age (she is 23). She is also one of my best friends.

    And her boyfriend is an absolute diamond. I mean it, he is a true gentleman who will stand up and take care of women just because they are women. And does what he says he will do.

    Not perfect but just a really decent guy, who I get on with really well.

    So I have moved in. We have our moving BBQ/Party and then the next day they break up. He kinda forces a decision out of her and she decides to end it.

    He is heartbroken and that is very clear.

    She leaves and so now it is just me and him in the house.

    A few days later, on the night when my guy from the pub took me back to his and then I left crying, my housemate came to collect me so I wouldn’t have to walk in the dark.

    I was feeling really down and in pieces about stuff and really emotional and we stayed up drinking and smoking weed together.

    We were laughing and having a good time and I was totally wasted and we ended up kissing and cuddling. It felt nice.

    However when I sobered up I felt terrible and guilty bc of who he is ie: my good friend’s very recent ex!

    So I feel very bad and that I am a bad person.

    He said he didn’t think we had done anything wrong.

    Whenever I am around him I feel really good and it is just easy… and fun. And I do feel attracted to him, but that scares me, because I think I shouldn’t.

    So my head starting going a bit mad and thinking stuff like ‘ow I wonder if we will have a relationship’ etc etc… and I have to pull myself back into the present moment.

    But when I do think about ‘relationship’ I suddenly feel absolutely terrified and begin thinking of reasons why it wouldn’t work and why I don’t find him attractive.

    And to top it all off he has been talking to me about his ex (my friend) and it is so clear that right now he still has massive feelings for her. Although he is just getting on with things and he isn’t letting it drag her down.

    But I feel afraid that the attention he gives me is cus he misses her.

    And then he has started dating. So he saw a woman last night, and they were at our house, an to be honest it felt weird, although I have no reason to feel weird about it.

    And he is seeing a woman tonight. And I talk to him about the men in my life.

    So I feel confused about the dynamic. Are we friends? Romantically involved, house mates, dating or what?

    Guess it doesn’t matter.

  394.  #394Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 3:53 am

    Rosa for me is being conscious of how I am, choosing consciously and going for the part that produces the most positive energy in my world. I have to be conscious of what I create when I am with a really masculine energy man so I don’t get confused. I have rattled many a masculine energy man even some friends husbands.

  395.  #395Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:54 am

    “Accomplishments.” This reminds me of the new Jane Eyre movie when the new little arrival from France, little Adele, asked if Jane would like to hear her sing. While she was singing and dancing for Jane, Mr. Rochester (unaccustomed to children, especially girls) said, “WHat is she doing?” And Jane answered, “She is demonstrating her accomplishments.” 🙂 I can sing and dance for my man. Those are some of my accomplishments. 🙂

  396.  #396Ella on May 7, 2011 at 3:55 am

    But I don’t know how to be around him… I mean I practice the tools, and that is great, but I can’t purely recieve in this relationship cus he is also my landlord/housemate and I have to contribute to the chores, cook dinner sometimes etc.

    To be honest it feels like we are married or something, simply because of how we are together about the house matters.

    I was brave the other day and told him that I don’t feel comfortable hearing him talk about his ex, because of what happened with me and him.

    And he said he was going to make a pact and stop talking about her from this weekend. Which he has.

    I said I felt confused bc I didn’t want him to no be able to talk to me and on the other hand I don’t feel good hearing about other women.

    But it just feels weird bc it feels like I have no right to say that. Ie he is hers (his ex) not mine.

    And I feel a lil jealous when he dates other women, but it has only been a week since they broke up.

    And the other part of me feels like friend towards him.

    I feel CONFUSED!

  397.  #397Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 3:57 am

    Rosa, I feel happy to hear your confession! I forgive you! 🙂

  398.  #398RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 4:01 am

    FW @ 387

    Yes, Rori definitely does say that in at least one of her programs, Modern Siren?

    I was wondering not so much about being one or the other, but about being on a growth path, still learning how to be more in my feminine energy with men, and how hard that can be because I am probably attracting men who still have some personal growth to do in order to be more in their masculine energy. Would love some feedback on that idea.

  399.  #399Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 4:01 am

    Lily T ,

    I am interested that you have observed you dont want to “make waves” and have avoided that.
    I get that.

    That was me. “Dont cause trouble by telling your truths”, “dont make waves” “dont trigger anyone”
    “conflict is bad” “triggers are bad”

    I have expressed some truths of mine today here and caused some triggering. i did not feel attacked.
    I did not feel “wronged” . I felt interested. That was a great change for me.

    I did feel amazed that triggering occured from the fun thing I wrote for Janjune to celebrate her day .
    Which goes to tell you never can tell!

    Its no good trying to avoid triggering people .
    They trigger themselves no matter what you right , so just enjoy writing what you want about your truths Lily t is what i say.

  400.  #400RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 4:04 am


    Lucy, if you ever feel like a name change on here, Eliza would suit you well! 🙂

  401.  #401Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 4:07 am

    Oh wow, ‘you right’ , not you write”

    Thank you Unconscious Mind 🙂 🙂 🙂

  402.  #402Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:15 am

    By the way Lurker I acknowledge that no one wants to stay in a home they don’t feel welcome in.

    I also acknowledge that you did indicate you chose the name you did because that is where you feel comfortable.

    I also acknowledge that at one time you did indicate that you were going back into cyberspace.

    I acknowledge that I was one of the people who threw things out there to lure you back in by asking direct questions.

    I sense some responsibility about leading you down a path that you might not have been initially wanting to go but I feel strong in my power. I want to acknowledge that it might have caused you pain and apologize if it has caused you any. Having said that I believe it is not Rori’s intention to inflict pain, I have not experienced that as her style. Hopefully time will heal all pain.

  403.  #403Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 4:17 am

    Hehe, thanks, Rivergirl. I love Eliza. One of Her accomplishments: “small talk.” 🙂

  404.  #404Lily T. on May 7, 2011 at 4:17 am

    #398 Rosa:
    “They trigger themselves no matter what you right , so just enjoy writing what you want about your truths Lily t is what i say.”

    Yes. I do think people trigger themselves no matter what is written. Lurker explained that well.

    I don’t write whatever I feel about certain posts because I don’t feel like getting into blog “brawls”. And I wonder about *why* some people actually seem to go out of their way to create ill feelings in strangers on the internet. What’s going on with letting their “inner bully” out on here? Can’t one be “authentic” by keeping their thoughts/feelings to themselves? Sometimes I feel “authenticity” is just an excuse to create attention for the person – drama. “See me!” “See me!” “See how important I am!”

  405.  #405Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:19 am

    RE 403 Lily T reading that reflects my thoughts and I am seeing myself in it as being other focussed rather than me. It is bringing some understanding for my and I have to process that internally. Thanks for helping me there.

  406.  #406Ella on May 7, 2011 at 4:20 am

    So that is that.

    Then we have my guy at he pub.

    I saw him for the first time last night since I did the walk away from his flat last week. Holding my boundary of no dates, no late night cuddling (although obviously I did not say it like that to him).

    So he was there with a group of his guy friends and I had to walk by him to come in.

    And he said ‘hi’ and I said hi but do you know what I couldn’t look at him!!!!

    I just felt overwhelmed/scared. And usually I feel confident to be open to him but I was not,

    So he obviously had plans to go out clubbing and he didn’t once come over and speak to me… and I felt sad.

    And tempted to lean forward and go to him. But I didn’t cus played it through in my head and realised that wouldn’t feel so good.

    But feel so frustrated that he doesn’t step up.

    So he left and I felt icky. I could have organised it so that I was going to the same club he was at with a group of girls from the pub who were also going, but I realised if I went it would be purely to chase after him, and not what I wanted to do.

    I was feeling tired and wanted to stay local.

    So I didn’t go. But didn’t feel so good.

    There is one guy at the pub who I get on really well with and he always makes me smile, so I hung out with him and one of my g,friends for a while, and that felt good.

    Then pub got really quiet as everyone had gone clubbing.

    We usually go back to someone’s house after pub but no one was around.

    Another guy from pub who has made it really clear he likes me, buys me drinks etc walked me home, and he kissed me.

    Not sure how I feel about him (maybe a bit indifferent??) but it felt nice to be walked home.

    When I got home my landlord/ or whatever he is was asleep and his ‘date’ was obviously asleep in his bed.

    I felt crap and alone. Wanted to talk to him. Just wanted to talk to someone and feel good and be cuddled… but not just by anyone, by someone I feel nice towards.

    I considered going to wake him… and didn’t. And am VERY pleased I didn’t today!

    I text a load of people to see if anyone was around inc guy and girlfriends. And no one texted back (actually bar my house mates ex, who called me and was with her new guy).

    So I gave up, got some food and a beer and came up to bed.

    Went on FB and put my status as ‘I am bored, I am bored, who is here to entertain me’ and then something about needing to carry lots of things up to my room and not having enough hands.

    A friend or 2 replied and then I fell asleep.

    I woke up at 5am, looked at my FB and my guy from the pub had replied ‘I am here. x’ and then ‘want a hand’ re carrying my stuff upstairs.

    I was like oww, this feels interesting.

    So I replied ‘yes pls 🙂 x’ kinda teasing/joking. He said ‘wot now’ to which I replied that I had just woken up and I wasn’t really sure what to say.

    Then he disappeared offline.

    I am feeling a bit weird about the whole thing, bc he is never very active on FB, and he has never commented on my status.

    And he is not one for coming forward or showing much about how he feels about me in public. So for him to put those messages on FB for all his friends to see seems kinda off.

    And I am wondering if he left his FB on and one of his friends who knows me got on there and thought they would have a joke…

    Anway the long and short of it is that I am not really feeling good with him bc he doesn’t step up and doesn’t do the things which allow me to feel good, safe and cherised.

    So I see that.

    And I am just sitting here being a girl.

    But I feel a lil sad about it, and I also wonder why I am picking this man, who clearly can’t do relationship, and is it part of the way I keep men away?

    Toxic man?

    And I feel sad, a lil frustrated, when will I heal this?

    But feel good about practicing, and still drawn to him, and temptation to overfunction, which I am resisting.

    And work is SOOOOO hard right now.

    That is a whole another story but suffice to say I love my job, and I have chosen self employed work that is COMPLETELY reliant on me and how well I do.

    And one job that I also love and is completely comission based, and suddenly I have to find the rent and I am feeling totally freaked out in case I can’t and pressure to make this work as I can’t keep borrowing money from my mum.

    And yet this is the situation I have picked for myself.

    And I love my jobs bc they are people based, challenging, active and girly, and that feels AMAZING.

    But I get stuck with fear often that I can’t do it.

    And overwhelming feeling is it is just little old me and I don’t have to tools and skills to take care of myself.

    I feel afraid and little right now! 🙁

    So all in all I am feeling a very confused Ella.

    I don’t really feel like me right now.

  407.  #407Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 4:20 am

    Ella, I feel impressed with how you are handling it! You certainly do have the right to have a Boundary around what is discussed with you. Boundaries are not just for men we are actively dating.

  408.  #408RiverGirl on May 7, 2011 at 4:24 am

    @ 395

    Ella, sounds tricky for you right now. Perhaps the best thing might be to just focus on being fabulous Ella. Be open to what might come up if that feels good and if he wants to step up, WOW! Just go with it. xo

  409.  #409Ella on May 7, 2011 at 4:27 am

    Urghh and I don’t like making judgements about pub guy…

    Who am I to say he can’t do relationship. He ight be perfectly capable of it for all I know.

    I just know that right now I don’t feel good/comfortable with/towards him.

    I feel closed off and afraid and yet wanting and attracted.



  410.  #410The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 4:29 am

    #369 Thank you, Lucy! Of course, you’re right, I was triggered. And, indeed, that was based on my interpretation of what Rori wrote. But imho that interpretation is almost unavoidable, and based on rational arguments. Let’s take another look at what Rori wrote:

    “make comments with your feedback on how you all feel about the men who are here – non-judgmental, Feeling Messages, let’s work this for every opportunity. I know I don’t want to ban men because I love it when Evan or Jonathon Aslay show up – but I need to make firm rules for all men here.”
    And this was followed by Daria’s rant against us men (prolly very much directed against me, but I dunno), which she DIDN’T seriously expect to be published, afaics. How shall I, as a man, reasonably interprete this? some points:

    – Despite obviously some bad vibes going on on this forum since some time, Rori only addresses the issue of the male presence here, nothing else. She doesn’t call for a general discussion about judgment or personal attacks, her comment isn’t about women at all. Of course it feels bad if we guys are singled out, while the other issues aren’t even mentioned in that comment!

    – Rori doesn’t weigh in on the obvious problem of adding a “you” blame to FMs, nor about the question IF I did say anything that was objectively bad or insulting. Apparently, the mere fact that some Sirens felt subjectively triggered by my comments is enough to come up with the idea of “rules” on male commenters (afaics Jim and Rusty did nothing to deserver this!). No consideration if this is a gender specific issue at all. It’s not only me, it’s “the men” who are presented as the problem. Guilty by association, guilty as accused!

    – Rori doesn’t say anything about the content of Daria’s rant, which by all reasonable consideration must be seen as violating several of the netiquette rules here: Judgment, attack, even the intention to drive other commmenters away. It sure looks like an endorsement when Rori sez she “wanted to” publish this, and she didn’t add a single word of criticism nor a statement that these views aren’t her own. Ok, I guess she didn’t mean it as an endorsement, but the way it stands leaves that impression.

    So, I hope you can see that there is good, comprehensible reason for me to feel triggered by this. It seems unfair, and evidence of a double standard to me. No misunderstanding, pls, I don’t really want to make a big brouhaha about it, it’s not such a big deal for me, this is just meant as an explanation about what exactly rubs me the wrong way. I very much respect Rori and admire her insights, so I hope it isn’t seen as an attack on her if I criticize this single comment.

    P.S.: Thx for #375, Lucy! That felt good.
    But pls keep in mind that I’m only human. Accidents can happen. But they’re really only accidents. I’m not out to hurt any Sirens here. I enjoy your virtual presence too much!

  411.  #411Ella on May 7, 2011 at 4:31 am

    Hmmm, reading it back think pub guy was angling to come over late night, after clubbing.

    Pushing my boundary.

    Hummmm 🙁

  412.  #412Rosa on May 7, 2011 at 4:31 am

    I feel good Ella that you did not make yourself available for cuddles and whatever else without him valuing you and paying attention to you FIRST.

    I feel good that you are increasing your value every time you dont chase him or agree to easy physicality without much else.

    Your vibe is VERY attractive now!!!!

  413.  #413Ella on May 7, 2011 at 4:34 am

    Hope he didn’t read my reply (which was over an hour later) as a yes.. cus it wasn’t.

    But it coulda read like that.

    I am open to him, and allowing him to step up, but not to late night rendevous!

    Maybe he just doesn’t know this yet.

    Maybe this is a boundary that needs on-going repetition from me before it sinks in.

    I feel afraid that he will lose interest.

    And I will do it anyway but feeling shaky with this new boundary, not strong yet.

    And also berating myself for being so focussed on him!

    Grrr I am being hard on myself right now.

    How do I switch this?

    Need to go and do some work.

    Don’t feel like it today but maybe once I start my mood will lift?


  414.  #414Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:37 am

    Lily T mulling over your comments I realize also why I like reading from other coaches.

    Carol Allen suggests that some men just bring out the worst in us.

    EMK suggests walking away sometimes.

    Putting the two together for me I feel like I don’t want to be triggered all the time so I have to choose to walk away from anyone who seems to always be triggering me. This by the way refers to anyone, not only men. I am not sure I can get rid of all the triggers so I lean back as per Rori and notice my feelings. I get to choose how I respond so according to Katherine Scott, I practice building in the pause so I release the knee jerk reaction. I also get to speak up for myself according to Rori so sometimes I say what I don’t want with no expectations so they can filter out themselves.

    I like how I can pick nuggets of information from different people so that it is easier for me to wrap my mind around. I don’t want to limit myself because I love learning.

  415.  #415The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 4:38 am

    Thx to all the nice words by you Sirens! I very much appreciate this.
    And to the others: Of course, you don’t have to see it the same way as I do. Your mileage may vary! I only want to raise the awareness about problems I observed. It’s still up to you what you make of that, I really don’t want to push my views on anybody here. Ok?

  416.  #416Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:39 am

    Thank you self for learning.

    Thank you me for practicing.

    Thank you me for experimenting.

    Thank me for speaking up.

    Thanks to me for the desire of creating what I want.

    Thanks to me for listening to my intuition.

  417.  #417Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:40 am

    I just love me.

  418.  #418Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 4:40 am

    Oh Lurker, this is so interesting! You see, every single person who is triggered can (and sometimes does) put together a logical rational presentation of “evidence” to validate their being triggered. But for someone looking at it objectively – not from a place of being the triggeree – it is clear that the rationale is really just part of the assumptions and stories the triggeree created in their mind. When you see women being “silly” about their triggers – they are feeling Just as justified as you are in

  419.  #419Femininewoman on May 7, 2011 at 4:42 am

    Lucy I believe that is the reason to create a safe space for people to be who they are

  420.  #420Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 4:46 am

    yours. That’s why it sometimes goes on and on – they are laying out the “evidence” that the other person “did something to them.” It is exactly the same as what you are now experiencing. Your assumptions about Rori’s words are off (though understandable) –

  421.  #421Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 4:51 am

    There are just a lot of assumptions there and thus leaps in logic – things I know are inaccurate simply bc I have been on the blog for a long time now and have seen how Rori works. But I will stop “explaining” now… and hope you can feel better about things…and know that I value your presence here. <3

  422.  #422The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 4:58 am

    #405 Ella, imho you did the right thing! You applied what you’ve learned, and resisted the temptation to let short term desires trump your long term goals. Of course, that ain’t easy, and you shouldn’t expect an instant miracle. The miracles will happen when you don’t expect them!
    Well, maybe not with pub guy, even though he showed he’s interested by reacting on your FB status. This probably is a new situation for him, too, unlike his experiences with the other girls which he simply picks up at the pub. That it’s different with you makes you special for him, so this isn’t a bad sign! Give him more time to adjust, and I’m sure he will step up.

    Ok, maybe he still won’t turn out to be Mr, Right, but with your growing experience and confidence in the tools you will see that more and more other guys will show up. You’re on the right way, and all you need is staying the course and a bit more patience. Oh, and maybe a hobby, something fun that you can do when you feel bored!

  423.  #423Lucy on May 7, 2011 at 5:00 am

    gotta sleep now. love to all. <3

  424.  #424The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 5:01 am

    #417 I see your point, Lucy, thx! Food for thought. Will have to think about this. Probably better to give it more consideration than to add spontaneous ideas now…

  425.  #425Ella on May 7, 2011 at 5:03 am

    Thank you everyone for being so lovely to me.

    I feel really accepted! 🙂

    But what about the fact that I kissed my best friend’s ex just days after they split up?

    I feel like a bad person.

    I feel anxious on this and unsure… like not sure how bad it is but it doesn’t feel respectful of my friend who I love, and so I feel ashamed!

    Feels like black shadow over my head!

  426.  #426The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 5:03 am

    #422 Sweet dreams about Sirenland, with lots of hot Sailors around, Lucy!
    And thx again for all your input. I really appreciate it.

  427.  #427Lily T. on May 7, 2011 at 5:10 am

    #413 FW

    I ‘get’ you FW. 🙂 I don’t follow any particular ‘expert’ either. Mostly I let experience and intuition be my guide. As well as input from different sources when I come across it.

    I use the “scroll away” tool alot.

  428.  #428The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 5:15 am

    #424 Ella, the important word is “after”! Not before, and it was only kissing, so imho you shouldn’t feel bad about that.

    However, this raises an interesting question: How long do you think the timespan after a splitup should be, when the guy (or girl) is seen as not really being “on the market”, because there’s the possibility of a reunion?

    This reminds me of three friends of mine. Two of them were a couple, who split up after having grown apart. On the very same evening that they officially announced their new single status, my other friend hit on the girl. They’re still together today (even though not married, after all these years). Imho it was a bit hasty to jump at the opportunity only minutes after the “declaration”. But, ok, my judgment is biased because I wanted to hit on her, too, only to see that new facts had already been created!
    Still, the question: Should a couple that splits up be given an extended “timeout” for an eventual reunion? Is this basic courtesy, or so last century nowadays?

  429.  #429Brenda on May 7, 2011 at 5:22 am


    You went to bed at 8 am??? LOL! You love this blog!

  430.  #430Ella on May 7, 2011 at 5:24 am

    Lurker thanks!

    I feel relieved.

    I am not a scarlet woman! Lol.

    Errr, yes it is a weird one isn’t it… I don’t know the answer and I guess it is a lot dependant on the individual circumstances.

    In this case there is no chance of a reunion.

    But the reason I think it feels slightly off to me is bc he still has feelings for her, and that leaves me feeling like not no 1, which I need to feel with a man.

    And also because I think (and I don’t know) that she might feel hurt if she knew, which feels lousy as I don’t like hurting my friends.

    And I feel dishonest as I am not going to tell her.

    Those are my issues around this situation, and thank you for helping me get clear!


  431.  #431The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 5:30 am

    Oops, just read this, had overlooked this before:
    #401 “I want to acknowledge that it might have caused you pain and apologize if it has caused you any.”

    Aw, NO, pls, no apology necessary, FW! Really, you didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t blame you at all, and you shouldn’t blame yourself, either. I make my own decisions, and I accept their consequences. And I don’t feel that bad or hurt now, just a bit confused and out of tune. No big deal, really!

    And now, come on, let’s focus on the adventures of you Sirens again.

  432.  #432Lily T. on May 7, 2011 at 5:37 am


    I wrote you something on the previous May 4 thread.

  433.  #433Lilybelle on May 7, 2011 at 6:15 am

    I was given something really good to thing about last weekend after the final blow up with M~

    Each individual has their own truth..that they fully believe IS true and it is as true for them as the sun rising every morning. What is important and what matters is how we react to their “truth”. Most often, when it triggers us, it is a mirror for us to look at ourselves. We can know that their truth is absolute BS…in OUR world but we shouldn’t tell them their truth is BS because it then turns into judgement and that is where the real problems begin.

    Lurker..just using you as an example:

    Lurker can tell me that Shreck’s wife Fiona, is as real as the stars in the sky and he is going to go on a date with her. He writes her letters, he “calls” her and talks to her… He believes this with every ounce of his being. I know this to not be true but where the problem would start is if I told him he was full of BS and went on to tell him how wrong he was by trying to “prove”to him that his belief has no merit.

    He would probably be hella mad and he should be. Especially, if I said: Lurker, YOU are so full of shit. Who do YOU think you are to tell me that Fiona is real and you have a date with her. Are YOU mental? Have YOU lost your marbles? YOU are stalking Fiona and Fiona is not real so who are YOU REALLY stalking?? YOU need to seek help for YOUR mental inbalance.

    My truth is my truth and his is his. Simple as that.

    It is not hurting me for Lurker to have a relationship, imaginary for sure, with Fiona.
    And who really knows, maybe Fiona IS real. For Lurker, she is.

    Damn, does any of this make sense? My point is there is not right or wrong in the way people perceive things, there is only what is. How I chose to relate to it is up to me and me alone. If something revs me up, then it’s up to me to look at ME for the explanation, something within me is jacking me up and needs healing.

    *I have to admit, I was giggling about this Lurk…hope you don’t mind.*


  434.  #434The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 6:42 am

    #432 Lil, I don’t really know how to reply to your comment. By starting a philosphical discourse about reality, how, for us humans, it’s always connected to our subjective pov, with a special consideration of solipsism? Better not. By pointing out that neither my imaginary ex-sweetheart nor my imaginary affair are named Fiona (but, wow, great name!), going further into details? That’s a bit too private to me.

    Prolly best if I only write “nice example of the dangers of judgment, Lil!” and leave it at that. Especially since I can’t help the feeling that you’re only pulling my leg (hmm, or do you want to pull my pants off?)…
    Uh, thx for your input, Sirenheart!

  435.  #435The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Oops, I forgot I wanted to avoid making jokes. Lil, of course I wasn’t serious in that point about my pants (but, ok, there may be some whishful thinking involved). Hope you don’t mind, either!
    Ok, I better take a timeout now before I get myself into trouble again. See you, Sirens!

  436.  #436Lilybelle on May 7, 2011 at 7:20 am

    Sweetie, this wasn’t directed at you at all. It was simply as you say:

    “Dangers of judgements.” I chose you to “use” as an example because, based on what I know of you..or rather, what I perceive of you, I felt sure you would take the use of your name and Fiona, in the context in which it was intended…a light hearted example.

    And, you may joke with me any time you wish. And the pants? Um, you are talking to a deprived woman who is seriously looking for a FWB just so I can have some fun. The very thought of pants on the floor….oh my.

    I meant no harm..and feel bad if you are feeling as if I asked you to spill the details about your private life. I can assure you, that never crossed my mind and wasn’t remotely woven into the “story” I created in my mind. It was written exactly as it was written, nothing more, nothing less, with absolutely no intent of malice.. An example of what can and has happened.

    That is all.


    I will try and refrain in the future.

  437.  #437The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 9:18 am

    #435 “I will try and refrain in the future.”
    Oh, pls, don’t, Lil! You can do whatever you want with me. Uh, only virtually, of course!
    And in #433 I was really only loudly thinking about how to reply to you in an inventive way. You didn’t push me towards anything. So, no drama pls!

  438.  #438The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Btw, I just see there’s a new story up. Let’s babystep over to that thread…

  439.  #439Laughing Goddess on May 7, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Ok well. Life is full of ups and downs.

    I was feeling so good and now my heart feels like it is falling through the floor.

    I feel so upset with LI right now.

    We planned this fun day and I feel totally unexcited about going now.

    I didn’t feel supported by him or part of a team. I felt very alone this morning.

    I feel angry that he made no effort to do anything to help get us ready to go. I feel angry that he took a bath, laid around relaxing, got the dog riled up, and then left for yoga.

  440.  #440Laughing Goddess on May 7, 2011 at 9:53 am

    This is not the kind of relationship I want. I want to be part of a stable, calm team. I want to be around someone who can channel their energy. I want to be with someone who can be a calm pack leader for the dog.

    I feel so angry when his energy spills all over the place without any direction.

    I want to be with a man who can channel his energy and lead us.

    Right now, I feel hopeless about him and our relationship.

    I don’t want to get hyper-focused on this one incident.

    I normally do feel safe and secure with him leading our relationship. I don’t want to hold a grudge about this one incident. At the same time I do not want to reward behavior that doesn’t feel good.

    And I do not feel excited about going. I feel chaotic and unbalanced now observing him this morning.

    I feel happy that he recognized his behavior and apologized before he left.

    I feel worried that I will hold onto this and we will have a bad day.

    I just want space from him today.

    I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole yet I also don’t want to go today.

    I feel scared to tell him. I feel scared of my habit of holding grudges. I feel scared to dwell in these bad feelings.

    I love that I feel scared.
    And that feels like anger
    I love my anger
    and that feels like more anger
    I love my anger

    ahhhhhhhhhh VAMPIRE SCREAM!!!!!!!

    Ugh! I want consistency. I want to be able to trust him and his maturity level.

    Oh my, I feel so angry right now.

    I love my anger.

    I will not go down the dark hole of looping my anger.

    I will not abandon myself to this. I care about how I feel.

    I feel alone.
    I feel chaotic.
    I feel tired.
    I feel sad.

    My nv’s are saying if he really cared about me, he wouldn’t act like this.

    Ok, I am feeling a little better.

    He always recognizes where he’s off-base. After time he always comes around.

    We are all works in progress.

    I am going to stay in the now.

    In the past, when my heart shuts down, it can take a long time for me to open back up.

    I want to stay open to being surprised.

    I want to be with a strong, solid, dependable man who can channel their powerful energy.

    I do not want to have a drama filled day.

    I will stay true to myself today.

    I will communicate my feeling to him without being blameful.

    I feel sad.

  441.  #441The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 9:58 am

    #438 Sry to hear that, Goddess! Did you already show him your disappointment with a FM? Dunno what else you could do now, except maybe to set a deadline for the start of thew “fun day” and to go out for an alternative program (maybe w/ a gf or a CD) if he doesn’t get into gear by then…

    Btw, what does LI stand for? Louchely Indecisive?

  442.  #442Lilybelle on May 7, 2011 at 10:04 am

    …Does not participate in drama.


  443.  #443Dorothea on May 7, 2011 at 10:04 am

    When you offer/do pay for coffee or the parking meter, what does that look like?

    To be honest, I’d really like to start feeling more comfortable throwing some money down some of the time with men after a number of dates, instead of feeling like i am discounting myself. It is in my personality to insist to friends, coworkers, strangers — everybody, really — that I pay the bill for something sometimes. Especially if they’ve been a good friend lately, offered me their support, did me a big favor, or I am feeling extra loving of them.

    I used to buy my dates a drink at some point if we were at a bar, but i don’t feel so interested in making getting drunk a date activity anymore. yuck.

  444.  #444Laughing Goddess on May 7, 2011 at 10:05 am

    I feel really sad about the way our day started.

    I feel resistant to going now because I feel tired and exhausted and hungry.

    I feel disappointment because I thought we were going to get up and try to leave early.

    Ugh…anger is boiling up again.

    I love my anger

    I feel like mama bear. He triggered something deep within me today. He triggered by mama bear who wants to destroy anyone who messes with my cubs and my den.

    I feel disrespected….although I don’t think that is really a feeling.

    And I feel frustrated because I don’t think it was intentional on his part.

    I think he was feeling wound up and wild and didn’t know what to do with all that energy. And instead of channeling it in a productive way, he just laid around until he exploded and then started playing with the dog in an unconstructive way.

    And he was howling and being hyper and running around the house.

    But…..he normally isn’t like that.

    That’s why I feel so frustrated.

    I really don’t want to hold a grudge about this but I don’t wan to ever experience what I did with him today.

    I want to respect him and it’s very hard for me to respect him when he acts like that.

    My judgement is that he was acting like an immature little boy/baby.

    I don’t want to say that to him though. I don’t want to attack him or judge him.

    Mostly I just feel turned off.

    I feel turned of by what I perceive as immaturity.

    But he already apologized.

    I want to let this go and move forward. It’s almost like I can’t until I see him acting back to his normal self.

  445.  #445Dorothea on May 7, 2011 at 10:06 am

    lg, i am just taking a guess here (and projecting fully my own response in these situations), but are you just feeling TURNED OFF cuz of this? i go through a similar ocean of emotions and intensity when really i’m just turned off which is why i am asking….

  446.  #446The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 10:09 am

    No misunderstanding: A deadlline for yourself, not to be communicated to him as a scenario. Say, if he doesn’t show he going to start until 12 o’clock (or so), you could tell him that you understand that he isn’t in the mood for the program, and that you will go out with a friend now. He may still be pi**ed off, but imho he has to learn that it has consequences if he doesn’t lead…

    Dunno if this is the recommended, Siren-like method, though. Any second opinions?

  447.  #447Dorothea on May 7, 2011 at 10:09 am

    oh nvmnd, we posted that at the same time. right on.

    just go take care of u for a while and dont punish him for turning you off or insist energetically or explicitly that he is now responsible for your mental state. instead do something good for you right now.

  448.  #448Laughing Goddess on May 7, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Thanks Lurker,

    I did communicate in FM’s mostly. I threw a few thoughts in there too but mostly kept it pretty straightforward and non-blaming.

    He apologized and then left for yoga as planned. I’m supposed to be ready to go when he comes back but I’m not feeling it.

    My biggest concern is that once I get upset with him, itake a long time to open up. He apologized and I want to start fresh….

    ….yet I still feel very shaky inside.

    Trying to breathe and be in the moment and see the big picture and not mental loop about this one incident.

    LI = love interest

    Thanks for your feedback!

  449.  #449SummerBaby on May 7, 2011 at 10:14 am

    LI= love interest afaik

    Btw, I like having the opinions of the men contributing to the blog. I have often seen where comments I have written contribute to others being triggered.

    I recently experienced my LI triggering me by inadvertently using a behavior that my ex used regularly. My anger instantly went from 0 – 60, and barely shifted gears to get there… I was red-lining in a big way. But I kept taking deep breaths, relaxing my shoulders, and letting him know how upset I was all the while telling him I knew my anger was way out of proportion to the incident and that a lot of it had nothing to do with him except to remind me of ways I had felt insignificant and dismissed.

    My comments triggering others made me feel like I shouldn’t post or at least not post as often. But I realized that was my need for approval and triggering others felt like disapproval. These are things over which I have no control. I guess if we grow from it, it’s all good.


  450.  #450Dorothea on May 7, 2011 at 10:21 am

    i like lurker’s advice in combo with mine!

  451.  #451Laughing Goddess on May 7, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Dorothea: ya, you are right on.

    I feel turned off and untrusting.

    And thank you to you and Lurker. I agree with both of your suggestions and I’m going to do that.

    Summerbaby: yes! 0-60 in no time. That is how I felt today.

  452.  #452The Lurker on May 7, 2011 at 10:27 am

    #447 “He apologized and then left for yoga as planned. I’m supposed to be ready to go when he comes back but I’m not feeling it.”
    Oh, so it was part of the plan that he would go for his yoga training? But I understand he’s already behind schedule? Hmm. And you’re supposed to prepare stuff while he’s out? Like, for picnic? That wouldn’t be fair. One way or the other, aparently this kind of starting the fun day doesn’t really work for you (obvious in your bad mood now), and that’s something you should communicate to him, Goddess.

    #448 Interesting story, Summer! Awareness is good, and communicating such problems even better. I can imagine how your bf would have felt if he had to face your bad mood without any clue what triggered it or w