More On – When The Romance Is Gone And Another Woman Shows up….

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maninbottleHere’s a question from KC about her marriage situation that’s both common and awful – and involves another woman. You may not agree with my answer – so here goes:

“Hi Rori, I have what to me seems a strange situation and yet I wonder if it’s becoming more common.

My husband of 23 years came to me one day and asked if it would be ok if he and a co-worker (someone I had had over to dinner a few times and was friendly with) could be more than friends and become intimate. At the same time, he assured me that they hadn’t done anything yet and that he didn’t want to lose me.

Also, he said that our relationship is still first priority to him (really?) and he loves me very much, yet feels that he is capable of loving two women at the same time and is polyamorous. And she is fine with this arrangement (being second). In anger I told them both that they could do what they like (discreetly for the sake of me and our kids) as I wanted out as soon as I could.

Now I wasn’t happy with our relationship for a few years before, as I felt him being less and less a part of our family and I know that I was going between telling him that I needed more (he said earlier that he felt there was no problem) and pulling away myself.

When this happened I was angry and scared to death as I was just 51 with two kids nearing college and had been a stay at home mom for the last 18 years.

At the same time I was dealing with issues with my oldest child and the sickness and death of a close family member I was caring for, so I just wanted as close to status quo as I could get. My hope was also that he would change his mind. We stayed in the same house but have separate bedrooms.

A couple of times we did talk about going back to our “normal” marriage yet he told me he was worried about her feelings and that he wanted me to “tell” him to leave (like I’m his mom???). I told him he had to be a man and decide for himself. It felt as if he wanted a guarantee with me before he would end it with her.

Though I still feel love for him and wish that we could stay together as a family, I feel distrustful of getting back with him and rebuilding our relationship when he hasn’t ended it with her yet and is asking me to tell him to do so. Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else as well? Thanks for your help!”

My Answer:

KC – This is a powerful situation – and if I was to talk with you personally, I would be amazed that you even care that he wants to have a sexually intimate relationship with another women – when he doesn’t have one with you, and it seems you don’t want that.

And, I may get booed for this – but going just from your letter, in my book – he gets super gold stars for bringing the situation to you rather than just cheating and lying.

What, exactly, to you, is your “normal” marriage?

The quality of intimacy in a relationship, with a man who’s still in the room, is, I’m straight-out going to say, largely in the hands of the woman.

No one says we have to be married. No one says we have to be in a relationship.

Certainly no one says we have to be in a relationship with a man.

AND if that’s what we want – then romance and sex is part of the deal.

Otherwise, you’re just in a friendship – and that seems rocky, too, in your situation.

Have you seen the film Hope Springs, with Meryl Streep? I found it to be quite powerful.

Please, please don’t shut him down.

Please work with the ebook and Modern Siren.

Please rethink what you want in this life, right now.

Do you want to have a threesome?

Do you want polyamory?

Do you want a man at all?

Do you want to be alone?

Do you have meaningful work you can do?

Are you prepared to change your life around 100%?

You can fix this – and it’s going to take a huge leap and some new skills, a willingness to walk away, and a willingness to embark on something new.

If this other woman is too embedded in his mind and heart to let go of…then your options are limited.

Love, Rori


To reverse the situation in the post – what if your husband spent his emotional energy taking care of others (child and relative), abandoned the idea of romance in your marriage, opted for separate bedrooms, and stopped having sex with you.

Would you be happy to live like this for the rest of your life? As roommates?

Would you assume, that because you’d been married for 23 years, that you were supposed to stay in this marriage – as is?

This is how I see KC’s experience. It sounds as though she really couldn’t have cared less if the romance and sex and emotional intimacy went out the window.

Yes – it takes work to apply energy to a relationship when there are so many other things that take our energy away.

And – would you accept that answer from your husband, as a reason why he isn’t interested in creating depth in your marriage? Not me.

If my man just lost interest in the marriage (as KC clearly did, here, for many years before this other woman even came into the conversation) – I’d be all over it.

I’d be in pole dancing class, I’d read every book on sex and Tantra I could, I’d buy every program of mine and every other relationship “guru” on the web, I’d get counseling, I’d Circular Date. I’d CARE. I’d want to FIX it. I’d TALK to my husband. I’d find out what HIS needs are that weren’t being met before I’d EVER let an extreme change like separate bedrooms happen.

AND – KC’s husband didn’t know what to do. He did nothing. He just let it happen. Almost ALL men would do exactly the same thing. That’s why it’s up to the woman to “go first.”

She has to start the conversation. She has to locate where things have broken down.

She has to get creative – because women hold the sexual intimacy of a relationship, and the emotional intimacy of a relationship in their hands. Men are not built emotionally to be the leader where emotions are concerned. Vulnerability is in the hands of the woman. And Vulnerability is what makes love possible.

The only reason to be in a marriage day after day is because we make each other happy. On ALL levels. We CARE about all levels.

If someone doesn’t care – and the other partner DOES – then the partner that cares has to start the work.

Her husband started the work by telling his wife.

KC then threw it out the window by telling him “whatever” and emotionally leaving.

There’s no one and nothing to blame, here.

All I can see here is that KC doesn’t care, she hasn’t for years, that’s what her husband picked up on long ago, and that coaching is the way to go here if she wants to reverse that.

Love, Rori

More, With Help From The Community:

This post I wrote caused a huge stir, as I thought it might. Here are my answers to the questions…

To Feminine Woman: Thank you so much for putting my comment into clarity!

Saying – “women must emotionally lead” is perhaps not the clearest way I could have said this. FW – you made it clear. The “leading” I meant is not in “initiating ACTION!!!”

The “leading” I meant here is “going FIRST.” Meaning being the first one willing to open up. The first one to step into the UNKNOWN of what’s going to happen next.

The first one to forgo blame and open to a solution. The first one willing to HEAR the other. The first one willing to forgo REACTING from feeling angry and offended and upset, and DROP ALL defenses.

You can’t heal anything, yes, if you can’t walk away. But why walk away as a response when a man has made the first move by speaking first?

Syreena – I hear your upset and passion about this story, and I feel it, too, that’s why I keep writing.

And I’m totally open to your disagreeing with me about anything. And yet, I’m wondering about some of your questions about what I mean by certain things, so – I need to ask – have you worked with the ebook?

It would, I hope, clarify all your questions. It’s very hard to piece together my “methodology” and philosophy from the blog – there are so many various ways I come at things.

To clarify further – “Going First” emotionally is NOT “Rowing the Boat.” It’s the opposite. It’s opening up so much, speaking so honestly and without judgment, that you’re willing to HEAR the other person.

Even if what he wants and needs feels terrible to you – It’s about using Feeling Messages, and not running scared. It’s about staying with what’s going on, and taking responsibility for at least your 50% of it.

And about KC – I can see how you might have picked up “judgment” from the post – and yet, here’s what I see: There’s nothing WRONG with not wanting to be married to somebody!

And it seems to me that KC put out her agreement to NOT have what she herself calls a “normal” marriage. And her husband agreed to it too. So there’s nothing for me to be judgmental about! I simply see a choice here on KC’s part, and I wanted to point a light at it.

In KC’s marriage, the talking needed to start long ago. This other woman is just a symptom of that moment when they could have saved the spark of the marriage – or moved to separate bedrooms. At that point, KC made her decision about what was important to her. When things are hard, we all run to other places. Emergencies happen – and often we make emergencies to avoid dealing with painful situations.

And we can’t have it all.

We ALL have choices in life. If you don’t have time to give to your child fully, 100% as best you can, then parenting is not a good idea for you (though so many people have children when they don’t have the time and energy).

And if you don’t have the will to be present with and attentive to your husband or romantic life partner (we’re not talking about a few rough months that you work together to get through – we’re talking about something that goes on for years and kills the romance in a marriage) – then you’re not making room in your life for relationship.

So many women tell me they want love and relationship more than anything – and yet they choose long workdays, gym classes, nights with girfriends and family – and leave no space whatsoever to cultivate themselves as women and meet available men – much less have time and energy for them once they’re dating.

When we’re in crisis – family, children, health – there’s often no time for romance. This is what happens to marriages.

And that’s why an utter commitment to relationship is needed. For many women – it’s too much trouble.
I know you believe a man needs to pick up the slack – and in the beginning of a relationship – that’s especially true. But a man cannot put out energy to a woman who he feels doesn’t really want him. And that happens all the time. That’s what I heard in the letter – and I still stand by Hope Springs as a terrific example of a woman “going first” in a VERY feminine way. Meryl Streeps character is powerfully vulnerable. She puts it all on the line.

Relationships take attention. It’s a requirement. Otherwise, they fade and die.

Men deserve to be happy and loved, just like we do. Some are capricious, but most are genuinely just looking for happiness and a way out of loneliness. We need to respect that, just as we respect our own deserving of happiness.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Mercedes on September 17, 2013 at 7:00 am

    I like all of this:

    “And that’s why an utter commitment to relationship is needed. For many women – it’s too much trouble.
    I know you believe a man needs to pick up the slack – and in the beginning of a relationship – that’s especially true. But a man cannot put out energy to a woman who he feels doesn’t really want him. And that happens all the time. That’s what I heard in the letter – and I still stand by Hope Springs as a terrific example of a woman “going first” in a VERY feminine way. Meryl Streeps character is powerfully vulnerable. She puts it all on the line.

    Relationships take attention. It’s a requirement. Otherwise, they fade and die.

    Men deserve to be happy and loved, just like we do. Some are capricious, but most are genuinely just looking for happiness and a way out of loneliness. We need to respect that, just as we respect our own deserving of happiness.”

    Love it!

    Much Love,

  2.  #2Femininewoman on September 17, 2013 at 7:15 am

    Me too Mercedes

  3.  #3Femininewoman on September 17, 2013 at 7:18 am

    It seems very familiar as if I have read this before

  4.  #4Mercedes on September 17, 2013 at 7:19 am

    FW: You have. This is a double post but she added more too it. Not sure why we’re seeing it again unless she wants one of us to spark something fun here. lol

    Much Love,

  5.  #5Cris on September 17, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Only thing I can say is that I would ask myself what I did wrong to be asked that way by my husband

  6.  #6Mercedes on September 17, 2013 at 7:54 am

    Awww…Cris…you don’t have to have done something wrong for your man to want to be with another woman. I know from experience that it is not always something the woman did or could change. Sometimes, the issue is within the man or within the dynamics of that side relationship. I don’t think I would be asking what I did wrong, I would be asking what I want now.

    Much Love,

  7.  #7Vi on September 17, 2013 at 8:08 am

    I want to feel okay about my sexuality and intend to watch for moments when I judge it in myself and/or others. I want to heal this and feel relaxed about it. It would feel so good not to feel guilty about it. And I’ve shifted so many perceptions I feel optimistic about this one; I feel absolutely sure it’s a question of time and practice…. I feel pleased to notice I don’t feel any urgency.. I have all the time in the world to heal this trigger… I love me

  8.  #8Waterfall on September 17, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Now he is texting me to tell me he wants to buy me a bike.

    I feel so confused by this man…

  9.  #9Daria on September 17, 2013 at 11:29 am

    ughhh Boookieeee mannnn umfffpha

  10.  #10Lisa on September 17, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Yes, I cried when I posted that and you know what.. the crack happened… a tiny bit of light shown through as I said that “lie” it won’t happen to me… and when I cry, I release … and still crying…at this moment… deep down I want to believe it will.. The “it won’t happen to me” is melting away…

    I had to laugh so hard when I watched this video… really! I hope it doesn’t offend anyone but she is a hoot!

    laughing helps me… and this really did make me smile…


  11.  #11Daria on September 17, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    thanjk you Daria for thinking of me and thinking about prepping my bed and washing my hair 🙂

  12.  #12Iris on September 17, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    I loved this post. It showed a back-and-forth commentary of an array of different opinions!

  13.  #13LoveAlways on September 17, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    His honesty counts

  14.  #14LoveAlways on September 17, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I feel Rori’s response

  15.  #15Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Rori, this was shared with us already? Did you mean to share it again?

  16.  #16Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Silly me makes sense now I have read all of it.

  17.  #17Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    How do you know that the wife didn’t care and start the work Rori?

    How do you know she didn’t say she felt unhappy and unsupported and didn’t ask for more help with their elsdest child and ill family member?

    Wouldn’t a man who cared gave then given her that which would have shown empathy and created real intimacy where she would have then felt both heard loved and supported. This would have made most women feel emotionally and physucally supported surely? The energy between them then would have been loving from both sides. Then they connect and share sex from a place of love.
    A woman who does not feel emotianlly heard and emotionally and physically supported would feel pulled on then for sex coming from a needy place from her husband rather than loving place. No healthy grown up woman feels turned on by a man wanting sex from a needy place rather than wanting to show and share his love.

    Rori, how do you know when and why she chose separate bedrooms? Did

  18.  #18Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    the wife say?

  19.  #19Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Are the woman he wants to have sex with and the husband in love? Or do thet just want sex?
    Does the wife want to share?

    If it was me I wouldn’t want to share.
    I also would not want to have sex with a man who I didn’t feel heard supported and or loved by who was pulling on me for sex in a needy way rather than in a way of wanting to express his love for me and mine for him.

    I have to feel love for and feel loved and understood by the man I want to express and show my love with in a sexual way. I don’t want to have sex from a place of obligation, that would make me feel sad and used.

  20.  #20Syreena on September 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm

  21.  #21Angela on September 17, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    I absolutely love this. What I hear loud and clear is that as women we have most of the power if we choose to go deeper or not its up to us

  22.  #22Amanda on September 17, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Interesting…the work involved…again the rules can’t be taken as just rules…in the beginning it is easier and more efficient if there are rules but as times goes on you need to be comfortable with the roles and comfortable getting what you need without being just a taker. The work you do is just that…work. It is about finding that balance in a confusing world with confusing messages. You are neither a submissive woman or a dominate woman…you are a person who gives and takes. It is about being aware and not being a doormat and not over compensating.

  23.  #23Lisa on September 17, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Crumbs have been coming up lately… I read Michael Fiore’s post on facebook about how women give men the benefit of the doubt … when they get crumbs… he is stressed out, he has a busy job, yada yada.. when as he put it, if he has time to pee and take a dump he has time to call you… IF he really wants you – he find a way.

    I had this mindset prior to all of this and reading and all the past 6mos.. I started to hear how men have it hard and we should give them more chances etc… but now I’m starting to feel that is just more crumbs…making excuses for them…

    I used to say that is BS … b/c if you want to do something you do it… excuses are just excuses…

    and I’m starting to feel that by giving men the benefit of the doubt, I’m accepting crumbs..

    I can tell when a man is really interested, he calls and asks me out, doesn’t hesitate to make sure he will see me again, etc.. “R” was really,really good at trying to make sure he kept me off the market enough until he got here, by calling me everyday and texting me to let me know he is thinking of me…

    so then why go out with men that ask me out via e-mail, text me alot… see I just don’t have the energy for the crap… they are just letting me know they are not that interested..

    I’ll meet “G” but so far he has flunked out on me taking him seriously… and I’ll meet him just to circle date and just to see what gift he brings.. and as for “M3” we’ll see – I think friendship with him… and then there is the new man, we’ll see how he responds..

    But, I’m feeling really really sad, tonight thinking about how “M” wasn’t that into me, and I allowed myself to put up with crumbs to give him space, to let him heal, to realize yada yada… when the man just wasn’t that into me…

    Yes, I need to cry it out.. and completely let him go!!! He realized he was hurting me and that is when he stood up in the room and said, we should be friends… how blind could I have been…

    I don’t think he loved me, loves me… I think he just wanted a woman to do things with, have sex with and worry about where it was going later, he told me, clearly his mom was JUST HAPPY he was getting back out to do things again… I was nothing short of a playmate with benefits…

    He didn’t take me away for the weekend b/c he didn’t want to… simple… he didn’t want to spend the money on me… it wasn’t important enough… it hurt too bad to really sit with the truth.. it was just a damn excuse…

    He didn’t love me… I was so blind… my heart hurts now… I need to accept that I’ve just accepted what ever measly love someone that thrown my way… that is pathetic!!!

    Just sayin


  24.  #24Olivia on September 17, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Feeling this!

  25.  #25Lisa on September 17, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    “It’s funny how love takes you by surprise and I just didn’t know what I was missing until you opened my eyes… ”

    I just found this on the tumblr

    I suspect that is what the opposite of taking crumbs feels like….


  26.  #26Zia on September 17, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    With regards to the original scenario, I’ve been there. I was the one who asked my partner for permission for an intimate “relationship” with someone else, while we were still together. I didn’t want to lose him, i wasn’t in love with the other guy, and I didn’t want to cheat.

    I feel grateful that I had that experience, but it’s not one that I’d ever consider again. There were so many things wrong with our relationship, I just didn’t have the strength to walk away from something that was so clearly broken.

  27.  #27Lisa on September 17, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    I just love watching myself evolve… I have deep pain one moment, an then I feel it and it leaves and now peace…

    Watching myself, watch myself… is a trip!

    Has anyone ready Back to Sanity: Healing the madness of our minds. by Steve Taylor? I want to get it next month when I can.

    I watched Eckhart Tolle tonight he cracks me up.. his snicker.. too funny..

    He is #1 on the 100 list of spiritual teachers and Dalai Lama is #2

    anyways it was too funny listening to him talk about success and how we have to mind create it in the moment, b/c in the moment we are just here now.. watching experiencing what is around us.. and how he doesn’t feel successful in the now.. he has to think it up.. I needed to be reminded of this.. I get caught up and forget… and when the dishes need to be done.. no one is exempt b/c of success.. too funny..

    Ok on to doing The Work on myself about crumbs..


  28.  #28Emerson on September 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Ah what a scary thought… When the romance is gone…

  29.  #29Emerson on September 17, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    23 Lisa I hear you about the crumbs!
    perhaps i have been taking crumbs from cutecityCD…

  30.  #30Lisa on September 17, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    Yes, crumbs… did The Work on it tonight…

    I realized some amazing things about me… and how I can totally turn it around…

    “M” doesn’t love me…. boy what an eye opener.. that thought itself is selfish.. no room for him to have his own feelings, his own path, I’m in his head ( his business). I think I know how he feels, what he needs..

    I honestly found it deeply where this man loves me… he let me go! I love him and there is NOthing I can do about it… doesn’t mean we are together, just means that I can stop trying to Not love him… b/c nothing I can do to make it not so…

    as for crumbs… I found it… and I can also find where I was giving him crumbs too…

    I love it when I see things and can take responsibility for my side… it feels so freeing…

    Night ALL


  31.  #31Veronica on September 17, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Dominique -153 – Thank you so much. These are good questions. I’d like to try answering the questions you put up even though I’m not in that funky feeling place now.

    How am I feeling physically right now which could be causing me to see things which aren’t really there or maybe exaggerated?
    Kind of sickly in my stomach (should eat breakfast soon). A bit of clenching teeth feelings in my jaw. A little panicky and somehow the perfume/deodorant I put on just seems to exacerbate that panic feeling. Needing fresh air in my room, needing to breathe deeply. Feeling as though I can’t quite focus properly.

    What thoughts just went through me BEFORE whatever it is happened which triggered me?
    That he’s going to betray me again – things will go well and then poof. That because I’m being active about CDing other men that he’ll disappear. That maybe he just can’t give me the relationship I need which I feel really sad about. That I’ll never meet someone like him again (he was pretty much the bees knees for me) – I feel very sad about that. That I wish I was so into my own life that it didn’t matter what happened. That now that I’m starting to CD with men that I’ll realize his efforts are/were quite half-hearted and the relationship was crumbland and whatever we have now is even worse.

    Were there negative or bad feeling thoughts, a memory which again caused me to see something which wasn’t really there or amplified something which is there?
    Memory: the months before he needed space where I could feel the lack of attention and affection and he didn’t say anything to me about it – I felt so scared because it felt like a breakup was looming. I despised being stuck like that.
    Bad feeling thoughts: I wasn’t enough, I’m not enough. That I’m participating in duping myself by continuing to have anything to do with him. That he’ll find someone else and I’ll be pushed out of his life i.e. I’m just a place-holder now until someone else comes along.

    – Am I projecting my stuff onto another?
    Not sure. I feel we don’t have enough contact for me to be sure, or rather we don’t have the kind of contact that would make that apparent to me. I feel nervous about telling him any of this because he hasn’t always responded very well when I share in feeling messages what’s happening with me. He can be quite cerebral and that feels cold and dismissive to me.

    Is this person maybe mirroring my stuff back to me?
    I don’t know.

    Now I’m dealing with noticing how he’s not really present – when we were in a relationship he described this as ‘being out’. I thought it was because of where we were at the time, but now I’m not so sure. I’ve never felt focused on, like I had full attention on me. (It’s kind of like having a very important discussion with someone who on the surface seems to be answering your questions but is actually preoccupied with compiling a shopping list in their head). And I don’t understand why this has to be. CDing is starting to bring this up because I can feel the difference.

  32.  #32Veronica on September 17, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Oops I meant Dominique’s post from the previous thread.

  33.  #33Veronica on September 17, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Met someone from the dating site yesterday – it feels really good not be invested in an interaction. It feels freeing.

    And the men who listed casual sex on their profiles are either quietly exiting or floundering with how to communicate with someone who requires more of them – I’m quite surprised by how limited the capacity for interaction is. It’s almost as though so much is shut down when that option is there – this is for me as well. I just feel suspicious of their capacity to focus on me.

  34.  #34Millie on September 17, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    I agree…his honesty would go so far with me. I don’t care if “truth hurts” I’d rather hear that than be hurt by being lied to. I think him asking shows he still values her, but yes it depends on what she wants….I’d consider a marriage where we swing with other couples, I think that would be interesting. Easier said than done though.

  35.  #35Emerson on September 17, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    I cringe at how I used to lean forward so much!
    I’m so glad I know better now. I still slip up from time to time but it’s ok. I will be gentle with myself …

  36.  #36Millie on September 17, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    Soooo….I had an interesting sexual experience last night. I don’t even know where to begin…
    I consider myself a pretty sexual person..but last night I felt myself withdrawing big time, for probably the first time I can really remember. I’m into the guy, he’s a good guy, my boundary was no sex, just kissing and touching and other stuff….you ladies know what I mean…
    So here I have this man in front of me who WANTS to please me, who seems to be stopping at nothing to pleasure me, who seems to be rising to the occasion at my inability to orgasm with a man…He is curious about me..wants to know my likes, my fantasies, what I’ve been through….and I couldn’t answer. I felt myself shutting down inside because I don’t really have an answer. I’ve tried thinking about it, I’ve tried not thinking about it…nothing works. I appreciate him wanting to know and of course wanting to find a solution, but inside I feel my sarcasm, like- good luck trying man. I felt a bit like a rolly polly who curled up in a ball really tight. I just didn’t want to “go there” Which is TOTALLY BACKWARDS, cuz basically what I’m saying to myself is-I only want to be sexual with men that don’t make me feel vulnerable, that allow me to operate on a certain level that feels comfortable to me, which really defeats the purpose of intimacy. He was trying to be intimate with me and I just…could…not. I couldn’t! Which kind of explain why I’ve been in so many “FWB” situations and go for men that are sexually perverse. In a weird way for is safer. They are easy to please and I can operate in a sexual way that requires no exploration of my underlayers, only my surface layers. But I couldn’t even share with this man my surface layers of sexuality. I’ve NEVER felt that “tight” pardon the pun about my sexuality. The harder he tried, the more I retreated. It’s just too much pressure now….and it triggers my feelings of unworthiness. Feeling like I’m a failure at relationships. I have everything and nothing at the same time….
    Anyway, I still have this feeling inside of wanting to run away…I feel like he knows too much about my insecurities and “weirdness” I feel exposed. I don’t like it. Maybe I’ve been happy operation under a sexual guise and when it feels gone, I don’t like it. Wow..I have issues….

  37.  #37Zia on September 17, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Oh wow Millie. You know, I can totally relate to what you are talking about here. I could see myself in the exact same situation, and it’s something I’ve been curious about myself – how to change this.

    I’ve actually decided to start exploring some tantra exercises by myself, taking men completely out of the equation to start learning more about myself, be comfortable with being vulnerable and open on my own.

  38.  #38Indigo on September 17, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    Lisa 23,

    Read for really good articles on this.

    (((hugs))) to you*

  39.  #39Indigo on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Lisa also,

    Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that because someone wasn’t able to give you what you needed that they didn’t love you. Some people have issues and fears that make them a bad bet for a relationship or even incapable of being in one, that has NOTHING TO DO with you, or even how they felt about you.

    I know for a fact that D loved me, but his behavior is utterly commitment resistant – and he was not just like that with me, he was like that with everyone, hence I know it is not personal.

    Yes, sometimes people are not that interested or not as into you as you are into them, but it is not a commentary on your worth. *Love to you*

  40.  #40Millie on September 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    @37 Zia– Well, I have no trouble on my own…it’s when I’m will a man that it’s impossible.

    You know what the hardest thing for me seems to be? It’s so hard for me to just be happy and believe it will all work out. I fall back constantly into sadness..I feel f*cked up, I feel lonely, I feel like nothing good will come with me and men, I feel destined to be alone. I don’t know how else to be anyway, I’ve been too long with no real relationship. A small glimmer of it will appear here and there and then is gone like a dream. It must be me…it must be my vibe, i must “fake it till I make it” I don’t know….why can’t someone just love me for me? I know I’m wallowing, it’s so unattractive, reveling in my own sadness. No wonder I am where I am, alone. Blah..argh..bleh..ugly noises.

  41.  #41Indigo on September 17, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    I have found something to celebrate – I no longer dread weekends. For the longest time whilst I was still involved with D, I did. I think that tells you something of how unbalanced the relationship was and of our issues right there.

    I never knew if I was going to see him, or if he was going to do other things, everything was entirely on his terms and I allowed this by tolerating it. I am glad I see this because I have awareness of what I will never do again.

    This feeling lingered for quite a while, and I have only just got to the point where I look forward to my weekends as relaxing and as a time to do nice things for myself, and that is something to celebrate.

  42.  #42Cris on September 17, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    @Lisa 23… we can choose our thoughts! If that relationship with M is part of the past, and is not adding anything from the practical point of view, why have those thoughts about not being loved etc? You can think just the contrary, … is it lying oneself? No! it is feeling good and not suffer unnecesarily

    hugs to you

  43.  #43Veronica on September 17, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    Indigo -41- I feel relieved for you and wish I there in person to give you a hug.

  44.  #44Veronica on September 18, 2013 at 12:01 am


  45.  #45Veronica on September 18, 2013 at 12:05 am

    Rori, your article “From pain to power – it’s not heartbreak he did to you – it’s yours” in the Heal your heart section on this blog is really helping me today – thank you.

    I especially liked this part:
    “The trick to not letting “hurt” from the past get to you NOW – is to realize that YOU are in control of so much more than you give yourself credit for.

    Remember – YOU were THERE! You did things, and said things, and tolerated things. You were THERE.

    That means…
    This means you can CHOOSE to be there or not when you don’t feel good about what’s going on.

    You can choose to stay quiet and accept poor treatment and no love, or you can choose to Speak your Truth. You can choose to practice being brave – not by arguing, but by doing what feels GOOD. Not what feels like “revenge” – or “getting it off your chest” – but by telling the Truth. Sharing what you feel – no matter how angry it is – in a way that OWNS your feelings, rather than making HIM responsible for them.

    In order to be hurt – you have to be there.

    And sometimes, yes, it’s an accident – but you know it’s an accident and you get out of there as fast as you can.

    If you can trust yourself just enough to believe you’ll know when it feels good to be there, and when it doesn’t…and practice letting that trust help you open your heart to whatever man is standing before you – trusting that YOU will know when to stay and be there, and when to get your energy out of there – you will get the love, romance and relationship you want.

    You’ll know when you’re just protecting your heart for no reason – in defense for something that hasn’t even happened yet – and when you’re walking away – even for just a moment – because you FEEL bad.
    It takes practice. It takes a bit of skills, and you can get those skills by practicing the Tools.”

  46.  #46Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 12:40 am

    Thank you Veronica (((Veronica)))

    I appreciate that very much.

  47.  #47Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 12:40 am


  48.  #48Waterfall on September 18, 2013 at 1:44 am

    I feel butterflies in my stomach..

    I feel scared to let go

    I feel scared of doing the ‘wrong thing’

    I am so scared of being in the wrong relationship and wasting my life

    I want to push him away but I also want him

    I want to accept myself the way I am and not be constantly worrying about him and whether he is okay..

    I have let him get completely under my skin..

    How do I sink into these feelings?? How….

    I have a feeling ofbeing his comfort blanket..

    I am his therapist…

    I want more than that…

  49.  #49Waterfall on September 18, 2013 at 1:46 am

    I feel like I am being a doormat

    I can’t seem to get any power on this relationship..

  50.  #50Syreena on September 18, 2013 at 3:01 am

    Ty For sharing knowing when to get yourself out of there.

  51.  #51Dominique on September 18, 2013 at 4:48 am

    Veronica – 31 – This is some wonderful reflection and processing. Doing this may not give you the answers you think you want, and it may not help you feel better, it will give you some clarity though, how this is really ALL about you and how you feel, and bringing it all back to you allows for this.

    Doing this can allow you to see where you might creating some of the bad feelings within you out of fear, some of which you described here, all very common ones. And this allows you to get clear on where your work lies as well as what you want and don’t want in your life, whether this man is truly the man you of your dreams.

    And in this you can feel better, if only a little.

    Yay you!!!


  52.  #52Dominique on September 18, 2013 at 4:53 am

    Millie – 36 – This is fantastic. Do you see what you revealed to yourself about you? Now you have something to work with. Zia’s idea about exploring tantra is a fabulous one. I did this eight years ago, and it opened up a whole new world to me. Helped me find things within myself I suspected were there but wasn’t sure. My tantric journey continues, for once this door is opened, there are seemingly no limits.

    My favorite books on tantra is Margot Anand’s books. She has a shorter one and a longer one. Both are great.


  53.  #53Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 5:56 am

    RE 36 – I believe this is so common to a lot of women. The going BACKWARDS brings to mind Rori’s “counterintuitive” guideline. It seems we do the totally opposite to what creates intimacy on a natural/normal level that to create real intimacy we have to be brave enough to go against what comes naturally to us. Maybe it is the reason for “can’t say the wrong thing to the right man”? If he is Mr. Right he will be internally programmed to help you because he will intuitively know/feel where help is needed?

  54.  #54Zia on September 18, 2013 at 6:03 am

    Millie #40 – I’m the same, fine on my own but not with a man… but even in the way I do it on my own is a bit disengaged and not present, which is what I am wanting to explore.

    Dominique – thanks for the book suggestions, I’d love to hear more! At the moment I am looking to get Charu Morgan’s “Awaken to your Body” women’s home study course. I have listened to a couple of calls with her and can so relate to a lot of her story. But I’ll need to save up for it, so would love to get some books to read in the meantime 🙂

  55.  #55Millie on September 18, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Thank you all for your comments and hugs!
    Dominique–do you need a partner to practice tantra or is it something you can do alone? Maybe I shouldn’t do it alone..?

    @Zia–I wouldn’t say I feel disengaged from it when I’m alone but what I think about, what gets me going so to speak is def not in the realm of healthy relationship. That’s another reason why I felt unwilling to share with this man…it’s too personal and twisted.

    @FW–yes I really see and feel that my approach with relationships is kind of backwards. Maybe going against what I would normally do would really help!! Because clearly what I’m doing and not doing isn’t working…I def notice that lately I’m not that interested in “just having sex” anymore…I’ve been saying NO to situations that don’t feel right to me, so I do think that is a step in the right direction. I can’t imagine how even more of a wreck I’d be had I slept with some of these men I’ve said no to these days….none of them are pursuing me now…so I feel like maybe my gut is slowly but surely tuning itself to better serve me.

    I feel hung up on a new guy right now…we had such a spark on the first date and second date did not go as smooth…he hasn’t really contacted me since, just a couple times….I feel sad because the first date was like a tease. How can it be THAT good and then nothing….. I got my hopes up. I shouldn’t dwell on it. It would better serve me to let it not get to me. I’m going to try. As Elsie said… Just decide to change. Just do it already.

  56.  #56Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 9:04 am

    So, with an emotional shift in me, I am having the urge to eat everything in sight.

    I have a fast metabolism and exercise regularly, so I don’t have to worry about it too much, but my appetite is typically not very big. But since D and I parted ways I feel like it has no off switch. It doesn’t feel like a bad thing – I am trying to have nourishing snacks, and if anything it feels like taking care of myself.

    Anyone else experienced changes in appetite with emotional shifts?

  57.  #57Lisa on September 18, 2013 at 9:20 am

    @Indigo I’m going through the same thing… <3 and I have a fast metabolism too… and I'm craving lots of veggies and such… I think for me it is taking care of myself and also when the season changes this is a normal occurrence for me when fall starts to come…

    But it feels good to be eating lots and lots and feeling like I'm nourishing myself..


  58.  #58Lisa on September 18, 2013 at 9:42 am

    @Cris Thanks so much for your post! I feel so warm reading it… <3

    I have a little bit different view than most on here.. I don't believe we chose our thoughts.. our thoughts just come and go… some we cling to and that causes us stress.. but we can shift.. and untangle the glue to the thought and that is why I do The Work…

    @ Indigo you are correct!!!! <3 Thanks for reminding me!!! I feel tears of joy from reading your post ( and I know better!! than that, the thought just got the best of me, and then my heart was hurting) and that is why I did TheWork on it last night, b/c the pain was so intense believing he didn't love me… and part of me ( as I'm typing this) is saying but, but, but.. I miss him… and it has taken me 2mos to really start missing him… and it sucks…even though I know he was as you said commitment resistant.. and passive/ aggressive… IT SUCKS and it hurts…b/c we had 95% of it there…. ( at least in my opinion I have no idea what he thinks we had)… I'm working on honoring his path…

    Sorry, I'm just grieving now… I've done really well for 2mos… and I saw his vehicle at the shop today …. it hurts…

    Thanks so much for the love and support of you both!


  59.  #59Veronica on September 18, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Dominique -51 – Thank you for clarifying that process – it helps me to know that this process helps me to figure out where I need to work on stuff as well as considering what I want for myself moving forward.

  60.  #60Lisa on September 18, 2013 at 10:47 am

    I figured out today how I continually sabotage myself….. b/c I tend to not know what I’ve done that was successful and then don’t repeat it… so I just kind of go through life doing what I do, and not being able to repeat what works…

    and therefore I hit and miss.. on things… even with men.. at times… I have ADD.. not ADHD but b/c my mind tends to wander I might get it right and then move on to something else and not even pay attention to what just worked…

    and so I don’t know what just worked.. so I can’t really know how to repeat it…

    ok did I just confuse the issue..?

    Anyways, b/c I have a very active mind and very cerebral and intellectual – even tough I can really be in touch with my feelings/emotions.. I don’t have a mind that slows down enough to realize Hey that worked great, I should do that again… I get off track easy…

    Just saying…

    good clarity here on teetering back and forth between cerebral and emotional… and my mind needs more balance…. more focus..staying on task… on track… instead of haphazardly going through life… hummmm


  61.  #61Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I had a really fun date last night with the man from my hometown. We lived in the same neighborhood and went to the same HS but didn’t know each other. Anyway it was really fun to reminisce about old times and shared friends.

    We ended up drinking quite a lot, I think he might be a heavy drinker, and he started to ge very affectionate. He kissed me while we were having dinner which threw me off a bit, but my defenses were down because of the alcohol, and I let him do it and enjoyed it. I’m not just talking about a peck on the check either. I don’t normally suck face (hahahaha) with someone on a first date at dinner so I feel a bit weird about it.

    Then he showed me his office (amazing and overlooks the bay). While I was checking out the incredible view his hands were all over me. It felt a little slimy or something. I’m not sure how much the alcohol was affecting him and if we would have behaved like that if he wasn’t under the influence??

    It’s nice that he’s attracted to me but I’m not comfortable with things moving so fast physically.

    He feels like an old friend which is very cool!

    Any thoughts on how to handle this?

  62.  #62Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Part of me just wants to jump right in there with him physically. My heart is still tender from my last relationship and I’m tired of feeling that heavy heart feeling. So part of me just wants to feel the sexual attraction (i’m also very attracted to him) and have fun and go with it. But then that feels like it will be more likely to doom the relationship. But I don’t know if I care. maybe I’m just feeling ambivalent about getting into another relationship right now.

  63.  #63Dominique on September 18, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Millie – 55 – You can easily practice tantra alone, and it’s also wonderful to practice with a partner. I’ve done both, and I highly recommend alone first.

    I just published this article. It may help around the sparks thing with the new CD.


  64.  #64CurvySiren10 on September 18, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Indigo~ you sound so good. I’m so delighted to hear that you’re enjoying your weekends again, taking good care of yourself and seemingly healing as you move forward from the relationship with D. I am sure this will not be a linear process with so much hurt and so much emotion invested…but you sound amazingly good. And yes, I believe appetite and eating and nourishing are all connected to how we’re feeling- good or bad.
    I am just so thrilled to know you’re doing well and moving on with your life in a positive, self-loving way! Lots of love to you!! xo

  65.  #65Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Thanks CurvySiren, for your kind message.

    I feel better than I have in months, lighter than I have in even longer than that. And I agree with you that it will not be a linear process (if only it was, in a way) as healing happens on myriad levels. But I feel stronger and more loving within myself than I’ve felt in, oh, ages, maybe ever. I believe I will get there, it will take time.

    Lots of love back to you! xxx

  66.  #66Amanda on September 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Lisa #23
    Your post about crumbs help me with a decision today. Guy that set up a date for tomorrow for coffee hasn’t contacted me since Monday. I was going to txt to see if we are still on and I realized…if he wants to meet me, he’ll find a way. Thanks for helping me with that decision. You’re exactly right!

    Also I was thinking about how since we are so used to accepting crumbs we sometimes give ourselves to emotionally too early to any guy that gives us more than crumbs. Some guys know how to pursue us as we want and since we’ve not had that before we immediately think…well his actions are great and I feel good so time to get emotionally attached But that is dangerous as well. There needs to be a significant amount of time of this before we get too comfortable. Does this make sense? I find I did that recently. He gave me a lot more than crumbs but I found out he was still definitely not Mr Right. And because I was so used to just crumbs I really fell for it. 6 weeks of niceness is reason to be hopeful, but not reason to give away your heart yet. Ugh. Lesson learned

  67.  #67Millie on September 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    @Dominique 63–

    OH no!!! hahaha…I read your article….
    and YES he is gorgeous, perfect looking actually, and had some issues (anxiety, currently got his license taken away, no job, unsure of direction in life) OMG I hope I’m not a rescuer!! I don’t think I am…I just don’t like to judge people based on their situations or discount them because they aren’t like me. I also found out he is related to some famous people, which would explain his wealth and lack of a job.

    The other guy that I wrote the sexual experience about, told me he’s not ready for a relationship, which is fine. I’m not pushing. I know he is into me though. He seems to fall into the category of not as much spark but he feels like warm water, good, but not too hot. There might be something there with time, but I’m all good with setting boundaries and being communicative about yes and no on that one.

    I HAVE been told I like a challenge. I’ve been told that by guys I’ve been with. Sooooo yeah….that could explain my feelings towards spark CD- who poofed, so I guess he isn’t a CD anymore.

    ahhhh I’m so glad I have this outlet to write to….sometimes friends don’t understand and it feels better to write. Thank you for listening 🙂

  68.  #68Millie on September 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm


    When I feel emotional…I don’t eat at all. Which is bad haha. Food just sounds awful and tastes pasty. I tend to lose weight because of it….I’m a libra so my heart is in my stomach/intestines, haha.

  69.  #69Daria on September 18, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    mmm answering messages on POF feelings soooo good to see what men wrote

    and also 19 man has been messaging me on facebook

  70.  #70Syreena on September 18, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Liquid Light, if you want this to be a conscious decision on both sides only make it when neither of you have had too much to drink.

    You are not in a place to give consent when drunk. Take care. x

  71.  #71Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Thanks Syreena! Makes a lot of sense, very helpful. Thank you!!!

    Also, I was concerned that his enthusiasm was the alcohol speaking but I’ve heard from him today and his tune hasn’t changed. So that’s a relief. We’re going out again next week. He wanted to get together on Thurs but I thought that was too soon for me. I don’t really want to jump into anything and would like to move slowly (both on a physical and emotional level.) He seems to be a very jump in with both feet kinda person though so this seems like it might be an issue that comes up again.

  72.  #72Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    LL many men are eager for instant gratification. As the feminine energy I believe it is up to us to set the pace we are comfortable with and it allows the masculine to value and respect us more. Remember he has likely not thought about the long term yet. He is just living in the moment with his feelings

  73.  #73Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Millie – men live in the moment

  74.  #74Daria on September 18, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    am expressing myself and feeling insecure! and thrilled!

    and decided not to attack/complain/judge other people (on facebook pages where this is common) to numb my insecure feelings

    im gonna eft instead

    yay ME!!

  75.  #75Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Thanks FW 72 love what you wrote! Thanks for the wise input!

    I find it strange that someone I’ve just met is talking about taking trips together, doing this and that together, wants me to see his place, etc. I just feels like way too much too soon!!!

  76.  #76Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    No its not. Its his way of saying “pick me pick me”.

    Think of him as a peacock strutting his feathers. Doing the mating dance. It is normal. He knows he has to put his best foot forward to impress you. Just let him do his dance. Just stay on your bridge and watch. He his showing you his ability to provide for you.

  77.  #77Daria on September 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    am feeling excited having convos with another Cd i forgot all about lol

  78.  #78Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    I’d take it slowly. Remember he always wants to see how much he can influence you. If he can lead you to his home he might be able to lead you to his bedroom. Also he is likely hoping that you “get” it.

  79.  #79Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Yeah, FW, I think you are right. This just feels very much like it did with my ex and I couldn’t handle it with him. It felt like constant pressure and I didn’t like it. It’s ultimately why the relationship fell apart. Uggh, maybe i’m just not cut out for this.

  80.  #80Zia on September 18, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Had a nice chat on the phone last night with the guy I met on Sat night. He didn’t text straight after and I’m a little relieved. Was feeling a bit overwhelmed with the attention the past few days. It’s really great practice to get used to how it feels to have a guy interested in me!

  81.  #81Daria on September 18, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    i am looking at Couchsurfers i can stay with in Brazil an d im feeling so excited and shy!

  82.  #82Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    LL I don’t see it as pressure. Remember your mindset will affect the dynamic. Try to relax and let him be himself. This is not your ex. It might just be masculine energy in play. Let it help you to notice yourself, your feelings, your thoughts. Strong on the inside. Be clear on your boundaries. You are strong.

  83.  #83Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Practice the tools. If that is how it feels maybe you could practice speaking the truth without blame.

  84.  #84Daria on September 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    i just clicked on this smily attractive guy on the front page of pof (dont really do this often at all… )and then felt impressed with the directness of his profile so wrote to compliment him

    i feel all ‘giddy’ and hes not ‘that’ far but like an hour and a half away…


    now i feel kinda insecure of what id answer if he contacts me

    im guessing he might as my message was so soft and authentic lol plus im so goodlookcing

  85.  #85Liquid Light on September 18, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Yes, FW, he is a very masculine man! 🙂

  86.  #86Linda G on September 18, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Feminine Woman, your response:
    No its not. Its his way of saying “pick me pick me”.

    Think of him as a peacock strutting his feathers. Doing the mating dance. It is normal. He knows he has to put his best foot forward to impress you. Just let him do his dance. Just stay on your bridge and watch. He his showing you his ability to provide for you.

    This really speaks to me. I went out with a guy who did the same thing, which freaked me out, as it has with Liquid Light. I froze and shut him down, even though I could see myself maybe liking him,

  87.  #87Linda G on September 18, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    PS, Rori also said if I have clear boundaries and trust myself, there is no need to panic

  88.  #88Millie on September 18, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    FW–I’m curious through your perspective how “men live in the moment” applies to what I’ve been experiencing. Are you saying he felt the spark in one moment and not the next so that’s it?

  89.  #89Lisa on September 18, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    @Amanda <3 I'm glad my post helped…

    and yes, with "R" same thing he gave me much more than crumbs, but I didn't fall for him or it.. I still realized that something wasn't right.. but I did enjoy the wonderful treatment… I agree with what you said.. thanks! 🙂

    @Zia I'm happy for you!<3

    @ Indigo I'm still eating like crazy… 🙂

    "J" called me tonight first time we spoke.. and so far great! I am feeling really good about this one so far.. we talked liked we had known each other from long ago…. we had lots in common… but the most important part is… he really listened to me… much more than "R". He ask me questions and responded when I talked.. allowed me to finish and there were a few times when he interrupted but then the let me get back on track… funny how I just felt so comfortable talking to him it was soooo easy!!!, like I couldn't believe that it was so easy… He sounds like a secure man…

    anyways he ask me right off if "should call you tomorrow night same time"?…. I was proud of me, I said yes, you should… first time I've done that…

    What I'm finding is that when i let go of the crumb..ers ( men that give crumbs) then the men that want to give me more show up…

    3 men this week I shrugged off b/c they just weren't stepping up to the plate… and one I told point blank, I didn't hear back from you, so I have plans now.. ( he totally couldn't believe it but you know what he started amping up) so what works for me… is to pay attention to who isn't doing the job and letting them go and not spending my energy on them, cuz there is so many more men out there wanting to do it RIGHT!!! (my new way is if they text and e-mail too much, don't call – I'm done- next!)

    After reading Dominique newsletter today, I realized how proud of me I am, for giving the guys that have a belly, aren't that attractive, might talk too much, or not be dressed so well, awkward etc.. a chance, I've always been that way… and for that I'm very proud to say… hasn't changed.. b/c what I want is what is in the inside… of him…

    I don't want drama, or distance… and I realized after reading that, that with "M" I started getting turned off when he started creating distance, which tells me, I'm not looking for an emotionally distant man, b/c when he was available and emotionally available, and responsive, and pursuing me hard, that is when I was the most attracted to him…and fell for him. I started feeling doubtful when he shifted.. the bad thing for me is, when I've fallen, I've fallen.. so yes Amanda your right… I need to hold off on falling for them until I know it will work, and that is the hard part… I don't know how to NOT fall for them….

    I'm feeling hopeful tonight…


  90.  #90Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 9:37 pm


    I’m glad to hear I’m not the only with a big appetite when emotional shifts happen. I find when my emotional energy is stressed or anxious – more towards the “bad” feeling side of the spectrum, I can’t bring myself to eat. But when I start to feel better, stronger, when healing is taking place, my first thoughts are of eating – lots of it! It’s the same with sleep. It feels like a caring for myself thing.

    Also Lisa I just wanted to say, you sound wonderful. Your insights and awareness are amazing and I really can see how far you’ve come since you joined the blog.


  91.  #91Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I think Feminine Woman’s advice to you is wonderful… if there’s one thing I wish I could have done differently, it’s not to let my feeling of chemistry or attraction, or my in-the-moment feelings sway me from my boundaries or from being aware of how I want to be treated.

    I think a good relationship is built on lots of little moments like this that start from the beginning, and so I believe it would be good to practice speaking how you feel about a comfortable pace right from the start.

  92.  #92Indigo on September 18, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    There’s something that’s occurred to me:

    As much as I want a relationship (and I do, it’s about the only BIG dream I have for my life – I don’t want children or marriage necessarily, I don’t want fame and fortune, but I do want a relationship with someone I love and adore, who loves and adores me), I don’t think *I* am ready for it yet.

    Not that I’m not ready to be loved, not that I’m not ready to commit, but I don’t think *I* am ready for that man who will become my partner for life yet. I intuitively feel there is more I have to learn, and just more time is to pass before I meet him. I don’t know how I know this, I just do. I feel like I’m in training school, and I feel as if it’s all about God/the Universe’s perfect timing.

  93.  #93Emerson on September 18, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    I’m a little behind in the blog… Hope all sirens are doing well. I feel happy and hopeful about work things but lonely at the same time regarding not having a partner. I really don’t like this dating life. I just can’t get used to it and I hate when ones that I like “poof”…

  94.  #94Emerson on September 18, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    I am feeling thankful for the people who have helped me do much. On this blog and elsewhere. Thank you all helpers!!

  95.  #95Femininewoman on September 18, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Millie I believe men follow their gut more than we do. Depending on how you were being he felt something is what I believe. I don’t know about a spark as he is the only one who can attest to that. If he felt a spark I would assume he will be curious enough about it to come back to feel it again.

  96.  #96Zia on September 18, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    By sticking up for myself, and stating what I want and don’t want, I feel let down by the fact that he was ok with it.

    Trying to work through this!

    The fact that I feel let down, indicates I did want more than he was willing to offer. So I’m trying to build myself up for doing the right thing by ME for a change, instead of trying to get a connection with someone at all costs.

    I feel heavy hearted. I feel the sort of anxiety that was welling up around my break up. I feel like I did when I broke up, but in smaller doses. It doesn’t feel good. I love my heavy heart.

  97.  #97Zia on September 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    The positive in this, is that either he will disappear because he was only interested in something casual, or he will step up for something more. With a) he leaves space for the man who is willing to offer what I want to come along and b) he is the man who is willing to make the effort.

  98.  #98Emerson on September 18, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    72 good reminder FW I think you have a point there.
    I like cutecityCD because I felt open to be free and feel sexy with him. (We never had sex just made out alot) It was refreshing and fun and I like his style and how I felt with him. He seems to have a gentle spirit yet masculine energy at the same time.
    FW I’ve remembered what you said about how since he is an executive he’s used to people following his lead.

    I’m not sure what to do now except lean back. I did lean foreward and texted him the other day and he did reply but them silence. I’m choosing not to bear myself up for “slipping” … Also I “slipped” on my clean eating goal but it’s ok I refuse to hate myself. Just a minor mess up nothing big. It is ok.

  99.  #99Emerson on September 18, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    I also miss feeling pursued. I feel pouty!!!!

  100.  #100Emerson on September 18, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    I want to feel pursued and loved. I’m really focused on my self improvement right now.

  101.  #101Millie on September 19, 2013 at 1:26 am

    @FW 95–

    Ah I want to know what he felt. From the date I gathered he felt insecure, self-conscious, and a little embarrassed, but I’m not sure how he felt about me. The date became clouded because he lost his keys…I was being myself, how I’ve been all along with him, open, warm, and honest. But then again you never know how someone else perceives you.

    On one hand I feel like–If he’s interested, he’ll call. On the other hand, I want to initiate a conversation with him and see what happens. Maybe I want something to be there, that just isn’t. Or it was there for a fleeting moment, but those moments have passed.

    I hate that I’m “processing” this so much. I want a man in my life that doesn’t trigger all that processing. I don’t want to have to doubt anything, but I guess that is very idealistic.

  102.  #102Millie on September 19, 2013 at 1:33 am

    Shit…I feel sad.
    I just reread my post and realized that he felt “insecure, self-conscious, and embarrassed.” NONE of that equates to good!! So WHY would he want to be around me, even if that is his own stuff, which I believe it to be “his stuff” since he volunteered his anxiety and insecurity issues up front. I don’t think I DID anything to purposely make him feel bad, but perhaps that is the chemistry?? EWL I don’t want someone to feel that way around me…but that is not in my power??

  103.  #103Millie on September 19, 2013 at 1:38 am

    Ok..LAST thing I’m going to say before bed…cuz I am feeling crazy now..yikes

    He left it at “Let’s do something soon!”
    My gut tells me I got “sooned” meaning it’s never going to happen. But I also tend to think the worst of everything. That every guy is going to ditch me.

    Ideally I would like to take it for what is it and not doubt it. He said what he meant and meant what he said….I guess?

  104.  #104Millie on September 19, 2013 at 1:41 am

    Ok, sorry this is the LAST thing…he DID say he likes me and he was “into” it, but that was before the losing of his keys. ARGH, ok going to bed, cuz my mind really needs to stop.

  105.  #105Zia on September 19, 2013 at 2:19 am

    Does anyone else get especially anxious around the full moon? I SWEAR that’s what’s causing me to go a bit nuts right now!

  106.  #106Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 2:24 am


    “let’s do something soon ” has no intention behind it and is ambiguous. So it preety much means nothing.

    You could follow it up if it happens again with ” what and when are you thinking?”

    This opens up them thinking what they would like to do with you and when. Or ignore them and don’t take them seriously get on with your life and then either contac

  107.  #107Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 2:25 am

    you some time in the future to make some plans or they won’t.

  108.  #108Cris on September 19, 2013 at 2:54 am

    @Zia, as my horoscope is Cancer I am very much influenced by the moon. But on the contrary, I feel in plenitude and have serenity when it is full, and anxious and in a bad mood when there is no moon 🙂

  109.  #109Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 2:56 am

    Ok something that feels nuts and crazy to me.

    In the getting to know each other stage at the beginning it seems like madness to me to reveal a something so personal about ourselves like a sexual fantasy to for someone who at the moment we know so little about their character. To reveal something so deeply intimate with someone who at the moment there is only surface sociabilty with.
    Surely something that deep would be best shared with someone after that had already proven to you consistently over time with their actions that they were of good character and had earned your trust slowley

    As by the very nature of revealing such a deep intimate thing about ourselves we then open the gates for that person to be able to hurt us.

    It would feel wiser to me to not give someone those deeply intimate details about myself and that power to hurt me until they had shown me consistently with their actions that they were of good character and had earned my trust. I would observe, watch and listen and see how they spoke and behaved around others and myself.

    It is not the sort of deep intimate information I would want to share with a someone I had only just met and only had aquantaince level and surface sociabilty with.

    I would only want to let them in little by little as they earned it.

    To me sex is such a deeply intimate act,it really isn’t something I want to do with an aqaintance. Or be sharing my fantasies with an aqaintance.

  110.  #110Daria on September 19, 2013 at 3:03 am

    “As by the very nature of revealing such a deep intimate thing about ourselves we then open the gates for that person to be able to hurt us.”

    to me this is the work we are doing here… allowing ourselves to be vulnerable — yes people can hurt us then — and yet I see I am more powerful in our vulnerabillity than in our defenses

    it feels scary and overwhelming and surprising

  111.  #111Daria on September 19, 2013 at 3:07 am

    i was recalling talking to a friend about the 2 years!!! when men weren’t coming to me and i wanted that so bad

    and not a single man was able to come to me.

    i manifested losing my license – and was GLAD for it! – so that i’d have a solid footing to trust my ‘reason’ to not come to men

    since then all men have come. smh. ok lets say… So many men have come…

    wah wah magic 🙂

  112.  #112Daria on September 19, 2013 at 3:08 am

    then there were these 2 years when i wasnt meeting men who wanted to give to me sexuallly…

    and now that seems to have ended! yayyy! 🙂

  113.  #113Sophie on September 19, 2013 at 3:27 am

    I am feeling unwell

    It almost like i’ve manifested this horrid cold as permission to curl into myself and rest. All my energy has been going out into generating work, managing problems, supporting others and now i feel heavy and unwell.

    I don’t want this to be a pattern I continue to hold but for right now I am quite grateful for this excuse to just stop and rest and be ultra ultra gentle with myself

    I am very affected by the moon Zia and the changes of the seasons and the changes in my life – I am going to be very very quiet and tender with myself

  114.  #114Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 4:28 am

    To me Daria if I am at aqaintance and dating level being offered that it feels best to reciprocate at the level we are both at. He is offering surface sociabilty aqaintance date so I share in a intimate way about the date or the weather or my drink.

    To do otherwise and to share something as deeply intimate as a sexual fantasy with someone I was at aaqiantance and date level with would make me feel off balance and create a dramatic power shift where I felt less powerful and less in control because of the inbalance of where the natural realtionship was at and what I was being offered and what I had given back.

    It would feel best to me to go slower, follow and share vulnerabilty and intimacy level by level only getting deeper bit by bit. They need to prove and earn that they are of trustworthy charatcter slowly slowly bit by bit.
    A natural and balanced progression would feel better to me.

  115.  #115Daria on September 19, 2013 at 4:41 am

    Syreena – hmm.. for me the idea of him ‘having to prove’ in order for me to open up is like a defense i would use

    i feel better using my interactions with men as opportunities to practice opening Myself up…

    i would use it to heal my fears of opening up, to grow my own abilities to be more comfortable with my vulnerability

    i also use it to practice my boundaries – not ‘giving’ info when i dont feel safe – i feel curious if that is what’s going on for you when you picture this dynamic…

    for me it’s about opening up… about my sexuality, about my real feelings, about the feelings about things going on in my life that are meaningful to me… and its all Practice, for me about being open to the world… i’ve grown myself so much and became able to feel comfortable with Myself so much more, around other people and alone! doing this… and there’s more to do, for me, about sexuality and also about my spirituality, about my dreams, about my financial plans… sigh…

    re sexuality in particular

    i dont want to be closed about my sexuality, i want to feel safe sharing it with the world… for Myself! I’ve practiced being closed a long time, and it felt safe and rigid and yet was not bringing me the joy and pleasure I wanted…

    it’s not about the guy at all for me (at first i would even practice this with people who were ‘long distance’ so that it would feel less scary…)

    the ‘results’ from this are more happiness for me, more men showing up that feel good, and even better boundaries as I got more comfortable to myself and more aware of what I was really feeling…

  116.  #116Daria on September 19, 2013 at 4:44 am

    Syreena – rereading your post I also hear you. Sometimes ‘sharing’ about sexuality when the man hasn’t led in that direction can be about a defense/control. As in a lean forward move to inititate sexual dynamics/(even just talk) to control fears about it

    it might not be about opening up

    for me i experiment… sometimes i plan on … ok I will practice sharing about the sexual feelings i am experiencing…

    or… ok I will practice sharing about other things until he brings up sex

    i actually decide this ahead of time (awareness) before doing it

    then its not an unconscious lean forward/ control move and I can learn from both choices

  117.  #117Daria on September 19, 2013 at 4:49 am

    just like sharing about a situation in one;s life where there’s fear of judgemtn…

    one can approach it as… unconsciouly telling someone hugely personal stuff that seems overwhelming for a first meeting (ex:… yeah i used to do hardcore drugs and my last boyfriend beat me and I actually dont like men or think things will ever work out for me)…

    or it can be an authentic opening up about Feelings, that can even be about this topic… (ex: feeling so shaky, it feels challenging to date and I often feel scared around new men…)

    these ways are actually way different from each other even if the same topics are coming up

  118.  #118Daria on September 19, 2013 at 4:59 am

    my energy has been getting back on track ! and whats set it off is using my first Rori tool…

    control/ (fists on his collar)… vs… no control, lean back palms open…

    while im walking, whenever i remember… yay 🙂

    i feel so much more ease in life

  119.  #119Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 5:01 am

    I suppose for me the sharing would be. I don’t feel comfortable sharing sexual fantasies with aqaintances and someone I am only at dating level with

    I only want to do that with someone I am already in a loving relationship with.

  120.  #120Syreena on September 19, 2013 at 5:02 am

    Others feel differently but to me that would feel crazy.

  121.  #121Zia on September 19, 2013 at 5:03 am

    108 cris: cancerian here too, interesting to see how you feel opposite to me!

  122.  #122Zia on September 19, 2013 at 6:37 am

    so there are a few men in my life right now who are providing for me in various ways. all of them are safe in one form or another (by living too far away, being a friend, etc).

    this feels good. it feels good to practice being open, vulnerable and “receiving”. it feels good to say thank you, and express gratitude when they pay me a compliment. or express concern about my wellbeing. or help me with something.

    it feels good to be able to do this in small doses, due to the safety of these men and the various degrees of unavailability.

    it feels good to be conscious and aware of myself and how i feel around these men.

    it feels good to be conscious and aware of myself in general 🙂

  123.  #123Millie on September 19, 2013 at 6:58 am

    Syreena– yeah when I read that my first reaction was what you said- ambiguous and no-intention. So I didn’t push for more, just said ok with a smile. I’m feeling like I’m putting TOO much thought and energy into this…I’m sure it will backfire.

    Yes, I also agree that sharing sexual fantasies up front doesn’t feel good…maybe that’s why I had a hard time answering him, but in the moment I couldn’t articulate it. Just let him know I felt uncomfortable sharing at that moment.

  124.  #124Linda G on September 19, 2013 at 7:06 am

    Responding to Daria, who said
    “i dont want to be closed about my sexuality, i want to feel safe sharing it with the world… for Myself! I’ve practiced being closed a long time, and it felt safe and rigid and yet was not bringing me the joy and pleasure I wanted…

    it’s not about the guy at all for me (at first i would even practice this with people who were ‘long distance’ so that it would feel less scary…) ”

    I have the same history, keeping safe chilled my interactns.

    Also, I find long distance interactions are good experimental grounds; but local gets scary for me still. I am working on this.

    Thanks, Daria, I don’t often respond in type, but find myself nodding at your posts, and ohers

  125.  #125Linda G on September 19, 2013 at 7:07 am

    I am also finding leaning back, doing nothing but relaxing and being open, is so much easier and pleasant for me and for others!

  126.  #126Amanda on September 19, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Ugh…I had a moment this morning. CDMikeCam who poofed about 6 months ago after never setting up a meeting and then resurfaced and asked me out…then rescheduled the Wednesday meeting for Thursday at 1. Well I hadn’t heard from him and so this am I txted to see if we are still on. (yup I know that was carrying the ball…but to be honest, when he hadn’t contacted me since Monday I was pretty much over this CD and thought out of curiousity I would make him have to cancel) He replied Sorry…I’m in Dallas…I completely forgot. I’m so sorry.
    Well that was the last strike for him and I know I should just be nice and let him know that was inconvenient and not be rude…But instead I realize this guy is just a jerk and and doesn’t mind wasting my time. So I replied…
    What girl doesn’t love being completely forgotten…delete my number”
    Yeah, yeah, I didn’t use my ”feeling messages” and I look like a nasty bitch…but my inner diva doesn’t want him to try again. I want him to get out of my universe and figured this was the fastest way. Felt good!

  127.  #127Dominique on September 19, 2013 at 7:59 am

    Zia – 105 – Not usually, but this month, most certainly yes and weird feeling, very weird feeling.


  128.  #128Veronica on September 19, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Yes, that enforced intimacy i.e talking about sex when the situation doesn’t even call for it feels very uncomfortable to me. It feels like pressure, like trying too hard to make something happen.

    I so wish for myself more open and free and deep conversations about sex with the person I’m in a relationship with. I don’t know if that’s me being too idealistic.

  129.  #129Amanda on September 19, 2013 at 8:18 am

    Veronica #128
    Trust me, that is typically a big red flag for me as well. The Sweetheart, baby, whatever in txts after one date…Then subtle, innocent innuendos, really early on. I just don’t feel comfortable about it … and one thing to watch, a not so nice gentlemen will try to make you feel like a prude or ice queen if you say something about it. I no longer let people make me feel bad about myself for not being overly sexual with every guy I meet. I find a true gentlemen either doesn’t do this or if he does and you mention that it makes you uncomfortable will curb the behavior and respect you. One thing I find on dating sites is that guys feel more comfortable doing that. Don’t know if it is that there are so many other women on there who are so desperate that they allow this stuff early on and it actually works for the guy or if the guys feel like it’s ok since they don’t really know you and they can just go back on the site and find someone else who will tolerate it.
    Either way, I turn the tables on them. There are so many other guys on these sites who wouldn’t dream of being inappropriate that early so off you go!!!

  130.  #130Veronica on September 19, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Amanda – it’s a huge turnoff for me to be constantly massaged with “babes” especially during the initial conversations. When that happens I suspect that the person may not be emotionally mature. Also this firm resolution forms in me that I will never meet this person.

  131.  #131Veronica on September 19, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Oh, some of the men on the site are so sweet, they’re so offering their thoughts, ideas, feelings, sentiments. I write a paragraph in response, they write two or three. I’m so glad I didn’t rush into meeting them, there are some really nice interactions happening for me – a really good groundwork being laid and I’m slowly wanting to meet them.

  132.  #132Amanda on September 19, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Lol…my scientific research for your consideration has proven that 100% off the time if I have made the mistake of meeting the guy, I was 100% making a mistake.
    They are either players who are so used to instant intimacy with girls that they don’t wait for the intimacy to build naturally because they are in and out in a few weeks…or they are emotionally immature and desperate.

  133.  #133Indigo on September 19, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Millie 102, 103, & 104

    I would encourage you not to take this personally. I think possibly this is a bit of a sign to you (something to think about, a sign to love yourself a bit more) if he has you doubting yourself after just two dates. 50% of the time you’ve had with him was great, and 50% was weird. He upfront told you he was anxious and insecure.

    Let it go… you are worth so much more 🙂

  134.  #134Indigo on September 19, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I had a guy who I dated for about 6 weeks at the end of last year/beginning of this year contact me out of the blue today. He was always a pleasant enough guy and took me on some lovely, thoughtful dates, but wanted to (it felt like to me) rush into an exclusive relationship. It ended when he picked up on my discomfort and he went back to an ex of his. Not surprisingly, I learned when he contacted me today that they have broken up. He asked me to let him know if I wanted to get together as he said it would be nice to see me, and I felt ok about that, because from my perspective I know it would only be as a friend. Another guy friend would feel nice right now.

  135.  #135Veronica on September 19, 2013 at 9:40 am

    I really admire a man who is sensual, embraces it and cherishes that along with valuing relationships. I just feel so positive to witness that. I’m pretty much wowed right now with how these men have shown themselves.

    Wow feeling really positive. Thank you good men. Also thank you to Rori who said say yes to every man who makes an effort. I’m also keeping Dominique’s latest article in mind.

  136.  #136Dominique on September 19, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Veronica – 128 – You are not being too idealistic at all. This is definitely possible. I created this for myself. Why can’t you? Start with you, exploring you in this way.


  137.  #137Lisa on September 19, 2013 at 10:19 am


    I’m the same way with eating…emotional.. opposite from most others… I tend to restrict my eating- not on purpose when I feel suppressed and in a not so healthy situation…

    I’m eating like crazy yes… b/c I’m feeling better about things, and the fall weather here makes me hungry… its a season thing for me… has been my whole life.. the hot weather starts to fad and I’m all hungry…

    but my sleep is just like you said also.. we must be very much alike in those ways…

    And thank you so much! I feel warm and fuzzy to hear that… I appreciate you seeing me! <3 Hugs!

    PS Indigo I loved the blog you sent me to… 😉

    I'm so looking forward to! The new Me! that is showing up! She is more amazing than before… ( not in a egotistical way, a curious way)


  138.  #138Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Good morning!

    I have a resolution today to stop pining over those men who don’t contact me and focus on me and what is on front of me!!!

    I am improving my well being (physically) each day and it’s making it easier to “love” myself….

    It is a full mom so I feel a little off but overall, I am doing great!!!

  139.  #139Amanda on September 19, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Lol…Yes, it is a full moon. Had two dates today…both of whom cancelled. And both for reasons that aren’t believable….one actually contradicted a previous txt he had sent me. Both waited until I confirmed the time with them. It’s a banner day for me. But yeah, I’m concentrating on the guys who are interested in me…and both of these guys were on strike two since it’s so early in the relationship.(That early I don’t give a strike three) So even though I’m supposed to not judge other people and just walk away politely I told them both to delete my number. It felt good. Anyone that flaky that early needs to be given a brush off. If I had been polite, I would have had an aneurysm and they may have come back for more.

  140.  #140LoveAlways on September 19, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Hi Sirens:

    I am really enjoying my Reconnect program! Taking my time and really getting into it. I really want to get away but can’t. So I’m planning a siren 3 day retreat staycation! 36 hours or siren regeneration in preparation of the next phase of my dating life! I’m not doing any more on line dating sites, I intend to be a walking man magnet going forward!!!

  141.  #141prplpsn28 on September 19, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Hi everyone! Haven’t been on here for a while. Have missed the last 4 threads. Am going to try and catch up.

  142.  #142Amanda on September 19, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Hello All

    I’m enjoying my Diva moment. “Marcie” came out today. (Named after college friend who never put up with anything). Every once in a while I get tired of using feeling messages and being a good little girl…Every once in awhile you run across a guy who is so rude that you want to make sure he never tries to come back. Now, of course I wasn’t insulting or even rude. Just told two guys to Delete my Number today. So Marcie got to have some fun. I realize I’ve typically been afraid to do this because I was worried what they would think of me or that they would think I am the ever “dreadful” Bitch. I think for some jerks that is a way of keeping us in line. Well, I could have played the game with both of them and said…ok no problem…was looking forward to bit. But I completely understand. But it practically made me want to toss my breakfast. Te He. Marcie you are soooooo bad you’re good. Now, you must go away for a bit as we have some nice guys in the rotation that need nice Amanda

  143.  #143Daria on September 19, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    hey im not desperate!

    i love the baby, sweetheart comments… and i like to do them myself

    it feels fun sexy and flirty to me !


  144.  #144Daria on September 19, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Yay Linda G ! I feel smily to be thanked for sharing 🙂

    thank you as well!

  145.  #145Daria on September 19, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    hmm i am actually feeling great with this full moon … m really synched w the moon and my cycles are synched now which is something i wanted oh so much!

    and i hmmm wanna update my celebration calendar

    today one of my gfs complained about periods…i shared how i love mine!


    i feel excited im having it regularly and synched now

    im also scared im gonna lose ‘essence’ ie. taoist an i suspect that is not somethng to worry about… that as a woman i have more power than the men thought

  146.  #146Lisa on September 19, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    @Amanda I’m with you on it… strike 2 and your out…

    I mean if I keep tolerating crumbs that is what I’ll get more crumbs…and more tolerating…

    I noticed when I got excited the other day about a crumb and then caught myself thinking Hey! I deserve so much more than this…



  147.  #147Liquid Light on September 19, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    I just turned down Hometown re. connecting on FB. I told him I don’t friend people that I am dating on FB. Now I feel like saying that was a little heavy handed? I probably should have just let it go without making such a big statement? I dunno. I’m starting to feel like I could like this guy so now I’m feeling like I want to take better care of how I handle things with him…does that make sense?

  148.  #148sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    @ Mlli 40
    I can relate to what you wrote and i’d like to say that I believe its ok that you didn’t feel comfortable sharing your sexual likes and life with him, as it sounds like its early days. I don’t know how many times you dated. I feel its ok to share intimate things with a man once you know he really cares for you and loves you. Once there is some trust in him.
    And also it must feel weird if you do not want to be sexual with him, if you just want to kiss etc. and you have expressed that to him, for him to keep talking about sex. It sounds like he tried to push your boundaries.

  149.  #149sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    I have been feeling very low these days, still not feeling strong enough to care for me properly. I just listened to Rori’s heart connection and the sea of love meditation and felt sad realising that I feel undeserving of love. want to get more into this feeling, trigger my unworthiness feeling so that I can feel them an release them from my soul. Movies always help me as i get triggert and than into release mode. Do you sirens know of any movies that trigger unworthiness feelings?
    Thank you for sharing.

  150.  #150Linda G on September 19, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    A very old movie with Bette Davis, Of Human Bondage, explores the attachment a man develops for a woman who treats him badly, yet he feels not worthy

    I have recently discovered guided meditation with Deepak Chopra, called Miraculous Relationship.

    It has changed my life

  151.  #151sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    I miss my ex very much today and felt like reaching out to him and calling him today, esp. as I read that ” a man cannot put out energy to a woman who he feels doesn’t really want him.”
    But than I pushed him away because he wasn’t fully with me but still holding on to his ex, even so he was apparently shocked about his resurfing feelings himself.
    I feel so that it wouldnt be a good idea to reach out to him as have already and he ignored me…and I felt soo humiliated by that and angry, and sad. The anger still keeps comming up from time to time, but I have released a lot of sadness and I need to move forward and I need to stay on my horse.

    I have been on dates with kind of nice but boring man, apparently a good sign, and interestingly the first date with the man I contacted and find most attractive didn’t happen. He canceled it. It affected me somehow, felt rejected again. I had to be carefull not to suggest a new date and I wont’. I leave it up to him. Let’s see.

  152.  #152sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    @Amanda 139 – I too watching out for flakiness and man who cancel dates early on. The last relationship I had , 5 month , was with a man who contacted me very eagerly over a online dating site, called- didn’t ask for a date, texted to arrange a date, texted to cancel the date, texted to arrange a new date, texted to cancel the date.
    Than because I wanted to date at that time I texted him after 2 weeks, we arranged a date, went there both very hesitantly ( as we shared later on), he even said he wanted to cancel it again!!!….
    and it turned out that he still had a girlfriend, haha, which he told me on the 3rd date ( I assumed he was single and felt shocked but didn’t had the guts to call the whole thing of).
    Which he wanted to leave for month before he met me. He left her, moved out!!! But wasn’t over her and I felt it the whole time!!

    Lesson learned – never contact a man again who canceled a date with you.

    If he arranges a new one – ok -that’s good. But I will be very careful – watching out for sign of unavailability!

  153.  #153sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    thank you Linda G for the movie tip. Do you know of any more recent ones too?

  154.  #154sequoia on September 19, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    @ Emerson 100
    I can relate to what you wrote , feeling similar. I know that I need to look after myself, my physical wellbeing, my happiness. Enrolled myself into a hula hood dancing class and vegetarian cooking class.
    I would love for you to share what you are doing for your wellbeing, to feel more inspired. Or from any other siren who feels like sharing.

  155.  #155Liquid Light on September 19, 2013 at 3:50 pm


    Those classes sound fun!

    Regarding wellbeing, I’ve been buying new clothes and have been just starting to enjoy dressing nice and looking cute since the breakup 8 months ago!

    I’m also on a diet and trying to lose weight (the 5 pounds or so that I gained since the move) and have been going out on lots of dates.

    I’m also trying to exercise more. I’ll be going on a mountain bike ride on Sat with someone I met on a date on Monday. I’m not sure that I’m interested in him but he seems nice and loves mtn bike riding too!

  156.  #156Lisa on September 19, 2013 at 4:43 pm


    YES! me too! I hear you…

    “G” wants to schedule a date, has my phone number, but is doing it all via OK cupid… so big sign there.. not even a text… so as much as I need to circle date…. I hate bending my rules just to go out with someone … to c’date… b/c it sends off a desperate vibe with it…

    Just like if a man breaks up with you, don’t contact him… I think it works for it all around…




  157.  #157Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    I feel annoyed by everything today lol I’m so affected by the moon and my period!!

  158.  #158Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Sequoia I feel inspired by your vegetarian cooking class! How fun 🙂
    I have cut out sugar, most gluten and wheat products and dairy. Not forever but just to give my system a break and I do feel better. I am also spending more time outside however I can grab the chance. In addition I am doing full makeup every day for work even though it’s not really necessary where i work but it makes me feel good.
    I started taking probiotics and increases my fiber intake. All these things are resulting in good results. Next thing I’m going to do is start spray tanning membership so I can be glowy and luscious hehe!!!!

  159.  #159Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    I’m totally focused in me and what I can do to feel good and not lean forward. I’m trying to be very gentle with myself.

  160.  #160Zia on September 19, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Since saying “no” to what I didn’t want, I’ve not heard from him. That answers any lingering questions I had about his intentions 🙂

  161.  #161Lisa on September 19, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Ok another 2hr convo with “J” tonight…

    strange the fear came in… big time!

    with “R” it didn’t happen.. not sure why, b/c he called me every night also and talked about taking me on trips and future stuff … and at times acted like, I was the one.. but then I felt more comfortable saying to him, we’re not there yet, lets wait and see how things go..

    but with “J” he is already planning on being in a relationship with me.. we are meeting on Saturday.. and it’s causing me anxiety…

    I think it might have happened when he ask me at what point do we let the kids meet. Now I feel like leaning back more….

    I’m not sure why…. that is the thing… b/c I’ve had men do this before and actually many many times…. but something is bubbling up…fear wise… It’s almost like being trapped feeling…already.. wanting me to be in a relationship so fast.. uggg

    I just want to take it slow…and meet a man that is ok with that.. b/c this wanting me to take my profile down immediately is just too much too fast… that happened with “M” and with “R” and now with “J”…

    I feel weird… I feel really weird…

    I’m not sure how to script out “I’m not ready to take my profile down and be exclusive with you yet” ” I need more time to get to know you first”

    Just sayin…

    Ok Lisa breathe and relax so you can sleep!


  162.  #162Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    I am also not being so strict with myself that if I eat a cookie it’s the end of the world. It’s ok everything in moderation. Also I have yet to give up coffee but I will for a week or two once I taped off. Lol

  163.  #163Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    160 Lisa
    Take some pressure off yourself, you can’t be forced to agree to anything you don’t want. You can take your time. There is no urgency.

    I’ve self that fear before too. I know no that, for me at least, some fears are rooted in being scared of getting hurt and the person eventually leaving if I let my guard done and fall in love.

    I am soo tempted to contact cutecityCD and pick his brain and find out what’s up, but that is masculine a energy not going to do it.

  164.  #164Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Sorry for all the typos I’m on my phone

  165.  #165Zara on September 19, 2013 at 9:30 pm


    Titles coming to mind, although I am not sure what you mean:

    Terms of Endearment (the 1983 American film)
    The colour purple (1985)
    Death of a Salesman (the 1985 movie)
    Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown (1988 Spanish film)
    The burning bed (1984)
    The accused (the 1988 american film)
    High Heels (1991 Spanish film)
    ‘night, Mother (the 1986 movie)
    Autumn Sonata (1978 Swedish film)
    Frances (the 1982 American film)
    Family life (the 1971 British movie)
    Ordinary people (the 1980 American movie)


  166.  #166Indigo on September 19, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Lisa 137,

    Yes I’m also exactly like that, seasonal eating… eating and sleeping less as summer approaches. Eating and sleeping more as I feel lighter and better emotionally…

    That blog is wonderful, isn’t it? It’s particularly great for building inner strength and resolve. I love her articles and how she cuts through all the BS and shows what’s really important in a relationship.

    You’re welcome! hugs <3

  167.  #167Indigo on September 19, 2013 at 9:40 pm


    I also feel affected by the moon. Someone was telling me the other day that certain winds can also make you feel a bit worse emotionally – hot winds blowing in negative ions.

    I loved reading what you are doing to take care of yourself and be in feminine energy. It sounds great!

    I’m also really getting back, in every way, to what a feminine woman would do. I lost some of that along the way with D and it feels all new again rediscovering it.

  168.  #168Indigo on September 19, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    I am surprised by how well I am coping with this separation from D. I think because of the support I’ve had and also because I finally saw, in its fullness, the crumbs that I was accepting and what I was willing to tolerate.

    I am forgiving myself for making that mistake (although, I’m not so sure I believe it was a mistake, as look at what I learned in the process… would I have learned these things if I hadn’t been triggered so intensely?) as well as practicing that self-esteem, self-love and inner strength, as well as looking at things with clearer eyes, to never want to accept those things again. Never.

    Really feeling my feminine energy in its fullness, what it feels like to really lean back and receive, not contact, overfunction and lean forward.

  169.  #169Millie on September 19, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    @Sequoia 147

    Thank you Sequoia! Perhaps he was pushing, but in the moment I felt like he just wanted to know so he could please me…Nevertheless it was overwhelming.

  170.  #170Vi on September 19, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    I feel connection with full moon too… At this time my Stranger gets especially vigilant and loud if I am settling myself for crumbs. This is time when beauty procedures feel so much more enjoyable to me than usual…

  171.  #171Millie on September 19, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    Soooo I leaned forward with I’m calling him SparkCD…
    And I’m glad I did!!! He was very responsive. I just asked him “hows it going?” and then we started chatting and asking about each other’s weekend plans. Long story short I initiated the contact and I suggested we get together because it flowed with the conversation. He ended up saying YES! And I know this all against Rori’s rules…but I feel really good that I initiated and I also admitted to him that I like asking men out sometimes and I like planning dates! (not ALL the time of course) But I am naturally masculine and it felt good to embrace that. Once I admitted that, I felt a weight off my shoulders, like wow……I’m not always going to resort to that, nor am I always going to lean forward, but I feel like it was good timing in this situation. Now, we can both see if the “off” date was a fluke or not….At least that is what I am wondering.
    I know nothing of what I did here follows Rori’s rules, but I don’t feel bad! Maybe I am happier in the masculine role? Maybe I need to learn how to balance my feminine and masculine better? I’m not sure…..but we’ll see how the evening goes…I like that it’s so unknown. It’s a risk. It could go great, it could be crickets chirping in the night…You just never know.

  172.  #172Emerson on September 19, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Thanks indigo!

    169 omg vi, I feel the same way now that you mention it!!!

  173.  #173Millie on September 19, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Maybe the only reason I don’t feel bad is because he responded positively! If he, as other men have, not responded favorably to my leaning forward, I would perhaps be feeling differently. Anyways..I’m questioning now if operating under a completely feminine energy person in relationships is right for me….I feel strong when I’m assertive, whether it is in the form of a feeling message, or in the form of…asserting.

    This could also be me and my patterns, that I am unable to completely lean back…maybe until I am capable of that I will not meet the one. I wonder that…I wonder…if I do nothing, will a better man appear? I don’t know….only time will tell and feelings navigate.

  174.  #174Tereana on September 20, 2013 at 12:13 am

    Hey Ladies! As usual, I’m not on all the time. But today I was feeling the need to come back and write…

    I had a big day of disappointment today. Not even from men! But from life. And not even total disappointment. It was like almost-but-not-quite disappointment. Where I was having success, up to a certain point, almost certain that I would get the job/project that was on the line. But then, at the last minute, today, both – two different things – I got turned down.

    I was so sad. And I just wanted to let the feelings wash over me. I walked down to the waterfront and found a place where I could be alone and stare at the water and cry. I wanted support, but I also just needed to be alone and with myself at that moment. It was so personal to me, and it hit me deeply. Especially the project, less so than the job. But the job would have been great, too, if I’d gotten it. Still, I can see now, from some things I learned in the interview, that it may not have been the best fit for me after all, in some practical ways. Not according to what I’m looking for.

    And I find job hunting to be lots like dating/CDing. You don’t really want to accept “crumbs” or a job that is “less than” what you are looking for. You want to take the job that offers you what you really want in your life, and fills all of your specifications, even if it is “less glamorous.” So I feel hopeful about that (even though I have no immediate job prospects other than the one I just interviewed for! But I’ll keep looking…)

    And the project was something very close to my heart. I would have gotten paid for that, too. But I really wasn’t doing it for the money. It was really to get something out. Something creative.


    Meanwhile, I got a random friend request from a guy in Florida that I’ve never met. First I had to ask if we’d met before, because we have one friend in common. Turned out he’s even dated another friend of mine that I dance with. Small world, I guess. (My friend and I both date Indian men. Ha!)

    Anyway, he’s been chatting to me every day on Facebook. Expressing caring for me, and saying he’s going to come for a visit soon and he wants to meet. I don’t even know if I like this guy yet, but hey, he seems kind of interesting.

    Meanwhile, the trucker that I met last weekend – I don’t know. I’m just getting weird vibes from him. I guess his phone was shooting my texts to some random lady. So I would get weird texts back. He still wants to meet on Friday, but I don’t think I want to anymore. The excitement is gone. I don’t feel we would be a good match.

    So I guess I meted out my own rejection today. It was going around, kind of…

    But my day wasn’t a total dud. I did some good and productive stuff, too. I wish that there was more monetary sustenance coming my way right now. But I feel grateful that my grandmother sent me $100 this week (gladly), and that I got paid for a house-sitting job as well. I am feeling more confident about asking for money, and more confident about my skills and worth. I know I just need to keep doing what I am doing, and it will work.

    Everyone faces rejection in their lives. I may take it personally and feel it very deeply, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t just part of life, and that I can keep moving. The important part is that I felt my inner environment to be gentle and loving, not harsh and critical, as a result of these professional rejections. And I think that’s worth gold on a stick.

    Haha, gold on a stick. ; )

    Okay, I am going to go to bed now. Girl is sleepy!

    hi Emerson. Hi sirens.

    Good night!

  175.  #175Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 1:08 am

    Lisa #161
    I’m hanging on the edge of my seat on this one, cuz I too wonder about how to handle this situation. What can you learn from the last two that you can use to better prepare yourself for this current CD ‘j’? Can you try to do it a bit better this time? I for one, realize I made two giant mistakes with my recent ex who wanted the whole ”take down your profile, let’s be exclusive and plan a ton of things together” all in the first two weeks. First, I don’t think I was truly open and honest about the circular Dating and what it means to me. I think I was a bit flippant about it and made it sound more like I just like playing the field. Ithink he sensed my nervousness about it and I also think it made it difficult for him to feel comfortable around me. Two, I started to let myself get emotionally attached too soon…which also caused me to close off a bit emotionally to him…does that make sense? When I felt I was getting attached I got a bit afraid and some old bad habits came back…closing myself off, not saying how I feel…excepting crumbs, ignoring red flags…and well ya know how that turned out!
    So, if you can think about what would have been better for you in the last two similar scenarios, maybe you can correct them this time. That is the point of circular dating…it won’t work every time…but every guy is practice. Maybe the last two were just practice.
    I do wish you well as I know I will probably be faced with that same situation again…I mean Mr. Right may come along and want to push things a bit too fast in the beginning…we know where this can be a sign of a player or a flame out boy…but every once in a while Mr. Right does it too. Difference is that if you are secure with yourself…explain CD in a way that makes him feel like your a prize not a unattainable player, keep yourself honest and feeling while still protecting your heart, Mr Right will respond to all these things. It’s part of the weeding out process.
    Or at least I hope so…cuz that’s what I’m counting on 🙂 Best of luck

  176.  #176Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 1:13 am

    Sorry for the typos in previous post UGH

    Also wanted to add that when I reread it I had a sort of epiphany. I did tell my ex about CDing but in my mind, I wasn’t really doing it. And I think when you do CDing that way, It gives off the exact opposite kind of energy. I came off as cold yet needy. Gross. Even though I feel like this guy was a flame out boy, it did work out for me in that it did smoke him out and get him out of my world, but I did end up getting hurt in the process.

  177.  #177Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 1:28 am

    Millie 171
    Yes, I know how you feel about the leaning forward once in a while thing. I do think in the beginning some guys need a little help. Guys get nervous and hurt as well and bring a lot of baggage to the table that may prevent them from being able to make that first move. And I too wonder if a total feminine energy all the time is right for me. I just try to keep it to a minimum. Tonight I was chatting with a new CD and he made an inappropriate joke which I could tell he knew I found a bit odd for a first conversation and he was embarrassed. I could tell he realized he made a silly mistake probably because he was nervous. He apologize but I could feel the energy change. Anyway, I finally said Well Mr. CDcurt, are you going to ask me out or are you the fantasy girl friend type on these dating sites?
    He laughed and said actually I was gonna ask you out for a drink on Saturday, but wasn’t sure how it would be received since I’ve already offended you.
    So the best advice I can give is, you have to pay close attention to how you feel…I leaned forward in a fun flirty way that was part of the natural course of our conversation after I saw that he had lost his balance a bit. I won’t continue to do this with him. He has seen that he can trust me and make a mistake and I am still open to him…so now he needs to step up. I really think if your leaning forward is fun and flirty and when you realize he may need the help and you don’t feel like you are pushing him or ignoring obvious signs or convincing yourself that he needs it when you know deep down he could be contacting you because you have been open and an invitation. It’s hard, but in those cases you can’t lean forward because even if you are a bit more outgoing that what Rori recommends, her recommendations are about weeding out the guys that are just not ready for a real relationship.
    But I truly get your confusion. In the end it really is about being honest with yourself.
    CDcurt and I have a date on Saturday…I’ll let ya know if my lean forward actually makes me just fall flat on my face.

  178.  #178Veronica on September 20, 2013 at 2:36 am

    Dominique – 136 – Yes, why not? : ) One of the men from the site was talking about lovemaking just in passing, not as a suggestion, in sensual terms and I felt a little nervous – it seems like there’s a powerful energy hidden there in that talking. I feel a small jump inside.

  179.  #179Veronica on September 20, 2013 at 2:43 am

    I was again stuck with my fears again especially the one about betrayal/abandonment. This time I noticed that there is a possibility that this fear is running me – I could actually see how that could influence my thinking. And then I realised that it wasn’t about who leaves, that my focus should be on me and what I need in a relationship — whoever stays and whoever leaves will happen on its own, as a result of that. This feels so freeing.

  180.  #180Veronica on September 20, 2013 at 2:52 am

    Millie – I’m in a similar situation – I’d like to meet one of the men from the site offline. He initially wanted to meet soon but I had asked if we could chat which he was very happy to do. I want to just express my feelings – i.e. I really like our interaction so far and am feeling good talking to you, etc. I guess I just feel nervous about saying that since it felt like I did so much initiating contact with BM.

    I’m glad it turned out positively for you.

  181.  #181Veronica on September 20, 2013 at 2:57 am

    Daria – 142 – Tone is so difficult to pick up with text so I’m not sure exactly if you were offended. I think you sound so cute in that post : )

    I didn’t think you were desperate – you say those things because it feels fun and flirty for you, not because you’re so invested in trying to make something happen.

  182.  #182Linda G on September 20, 2013 at 3:36 am

    Movies: maybe something lighter about an imperfect girl, “Bridget Jones Diary”

    I know Rori likes “Four Weddings and a Funeral”

  183.  #183Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 5:05 am

    Daria #143 LOL…it is completely different when it is a girl doing it…don’t ya think. Anyway, obviously it’s personal preference. Of course I just offer my advice as scientific info. (I’m very factual) It just appears that the honey sweetie baby txts when you first meet someone tends to be a sign of a ‘çertain’ type of guy in my experience. Perhaps not always true but I’ve run across so many of them that I tend to keep my eyes open a bit more for other signs of desperate and needy flame out boys…like instantly also asking you to go off a dating site, gettting jealous, etc…if the Sweatheart texts are random and in the moment…and not followed by pushing me into something I don’t want that early, then he usually is just an affectionate guy. Make sense?

  184.  #184Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 5:28 am

    I had a fun little text exchange with a new CD this morning. He called yesterday for the first time and we only chatted for a few minutes. Then this morning he txts and asks me out for brunch on Sunday. Think the poor guy was too nervous to do it on the phone last night. Anyway, here goes

    CD: Are you free this weekend for brunch?
    ME: Sure, that sounds fun. Sunday is open.
    CD Ok Let’s plan on Sunday.
    ME: I don’t plan on anything…but if you’d like to set something up, let me know.
    CD Ha…ok. Sunday and12 at Chase’s
    ME: Me, can you do 1pm?
    CD It’s a date. I’ll call you later

    The point is that I no longer accept any dates that aren’t actually set up. When someone says to me ”hey wanna do something next week” and I say yes, and they don’t pick a day, place and time I consider the time slot still open and the plans tentative. I find letting a guy know that upfront takes the pressure off ‘wondering’ if you have a date or not. Let’s them know that you like to have set plans and that if he can’t set up something until he knows his schedule better or for whatever reason, then my time is still open to make other plans.

  185.  #185Lisa on September 20, 2013 at 6:03 am

    @Amanda yeah your right! I need to think about what it is I wish I’d done sooner…with the last 2. Thanks!!! <3

    I think with "M" I wish I had not agreed to be committed so soon…. and would have kept dating "D" and not been scared of losing "M" b/c of it.. I liked them both. Actually like "D" more.

    With "R" I wish I had just told him that I wasn't feeling it for him when he asked me. I was too afraid to say, I'm not feeling it.

    With "J" I realized last night before going to bed that, the fear is b/c he drinks and I feel he isn't being honest with me about how much he drinks.. b/c drinking a pint or two seems like a lot in a few hours to me. He is down playing it even though I've told him about my feelings about it… that and the fact that he told me about his more recent GF's and those two things ( even though I'm loving talking to him ) are big red flags…

    Thanks so much!

  186.  #186Daria on September 20, 2013 at 6:12 am

    “Don’t get so bent out of shape with rules when to have sex. At the end of the day, none of it really matters. How you hold yourself as a high-value woman is the only thing that makes a difference. And being high valued isn’t about sex, it’s about your loyalty to yourself and self-love.”

    ~ Katarina Phang

  187.  #187Daria on September 20, 2013 at 6:39 am

    Amanda – well i feel a bit concerned… i have quite a habit of making those kind analyses about men too…

    i started to practice Rori’s way which is non-judgement and getting to first meetings and practicing tools, and it’s really opened up a new world for me – that feels way better … and Surprising!

    my analyses turn out to be unhelpful after all!

    going on a meeting with a drainy man where i get to practice expressing nyself through my uncomfortability “oh that doesn’t feel good” … “oh i feel unheard” “oh i actually feel afraid to say this… and the truth is i feel a bit disappointed”

    THAT work is much more important and powerful FOR MY GROWTH than my screening men out before the meetings

  188.  #188Daria on September 20, 2013 at 6:40 am

    thanks Veronica 🙂 hehe… it felt great to be called cute!

  189.  #189Daria on September 20, 2013 at 6:44 am

    In other words, all these thoughts we have about men ahead of time are just defenses!

    and I do also still am actively practicing dropping them… and have a challenging time teling a man “Im feeling bored” “this doesn’t feel good” in the moment…

    and yet the more i practice the more I’m able to do it with the Next man, and the more men I actually DO like show up!

  190.  #190Veronica on September 20, 2013 at 7:12 am

    Daria – 185 and 187 – I’ve so got to keep that in mind, that it’s about practice. Thank you.

  191.  #191Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Agreed Daria…can’t let defenses keep you from dating. To be honest, though these are not things that have kept me from meeting them…this was just commentary on my experiences with those types of men…whom I have met and how that behavior made me feel and the outcome of those situations. For me it’s less about defense mechanisms and more about red flags. I know what makes me feel good and comfortable with a guy and this doesn’t so I usually don’t continue the relationship. If i have four options for dates that week and one makes me uncomfortable, then I don’t go out with him.
    And of course you are right it is about practicing. But I like to practice on the best options out there for me. I’m on a dating site, I can’t say yes to every guy that asks me out…we women typically get 15 emails a day I’d have to quit my job 🙂 .So,yeah there needs to be some screening process. LOL!! But thanks so much for your input always a good reminder to check yourself and see if you are putting up any walls

  192.  #192Emerson on September 20, 2013 at 8:30 am

    CutecityCD contacted me and I haven’t replied yet. I don’t know what to say and I don’t want to reply when I feel desperate for attention and want and outcome. I want to reply naturally …. I do want to see him…

  193.  #193Amanda on September 20, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Eerson #191
    Hmmmm what did he say?

  194.  #194Tereana on September 20, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Yes, I was wondering the same thing as Amanda. What did he say that you would respond to? Was it like “Hi”? If so, you could just say hi back 🙂

  195.  #195Tereana on September 20, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Hm…well, here’s an interesting thing. I texted the chica yesterday that I was going to go out with. At least, at the beginning of the summer, I told her I thought she was cute, and she said she thought the same thing and suggested we “go out” when I came back to Cali.

    Well, I ran into her in the train station one day, and we hugged and said hi, and then her train came. Then I saw her house mate later on that same day. I don’t know. Maybe the “spark” is gone. I just remember really enjoying talking with her when we first met. And I remember her sending lots of texts and kind of being an awesome “boyfriend” even though we weren’t dating or anything at the time. But it kind of felt like we were.

    I don’t know. Maybe I should tell her about that? I was kind of waiting for a “real date” to say something about that.

    So anyway, I texted her yesterday to just say that I was still “up for it” if she wanted to go out. Haven’t heart back yet.

    Which is funny. I guess people can change when there is suddenly a situation that is more “real.” Maybe she’s nervous. Who knows.

    Meanwhile, this guy…he’s asking me how I am every morning. It’s kind of cool 🙂

  196.  #196Tereana on September 20, 2013 at 9:48 am

    btw, I had the feeling that my emotional day yesterday had something to do with the moon… that happens to me a lot

  197.  #197Femininewoman on September 20, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Emerson I would encourage you to consider that if he contacted you by text that it is just one text.

  198.  #198Zara on September 20, 2013 at 11:32 am

    I googled the movie mentioned in Rori’s article above. “Hope springs”. Had never heard of it before. And I found the full movie uploaded. That was enjoyable.
    If anybody is interested, copy the video identity: yvF7HUmfyY8 and paste it in the you*tube search bar or the google search bar.


  199.  #199Zia on September 20, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    I had another guy ask if he could come over last night to hang out. Was very tempted but decided no. It feels really good to practice saying no!

  200.  #200sequoia on September 20, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Thank you Zara for the movie let, I’ll check them out.
    I was looking for movies that would trigger my unworthiness feelings. I guess movies who portray women who do not treat themselves well, where one can observe their unworthiness feelings would do the trigger job for me and possible mirror some behaviour.
    I do not believe that I can talk myself into feeling worthy. Its sthg stemming from childhood injuries, sthg that I have taken up emotionally from my mum, who has very low self esteem, doesn’t feel worthy at all. I was constantly compared to other kids being better, nicer, etc. which humiliated me. I know t all intellectually but the thing is to get their emotionally, so that I can get int ouch with my anger, maybe even fear and than sadness, grief. Life also brings the triggers of course, but movies help too.

    Thank you Liquid Light for sharing your self-love/wellbeing ideas, and thank you to all the others.

  201.  #201Daria on September 20, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    im really feeling the urge to check Bookieman’s facebook page now that i chatted to FlyByCD for so many hours… and he’s also a friend who likes me that i kinda like and he also lives with a woman…
    yet it feels different

    i dont feel invested in FlyByCD like that right now at all… i fel like a friend

    and actually i dont feel like checking FlyByCD’s page

    if i check Bookie’s Page its only to satisfy my curiousity and it might trigger me into pining

  202.  #202Liquid Light on September 20, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    I’ve got a date at 830 tonight but I’m really tired. He’s 8 yrs younger than me so I’m not taking it that I kinda don’t wanna go but I’ll rally and come up with a cute outfit. My neighbor has been playing loud music at 2 AM in the morning!!! Grrr, I feel like choking him!!!

  203.  #203Linda G on September 20, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Going back a few posts, when it comes to dates, I don’t tell them I am CDing or explain what I do when not with them.
    It’s the vibe CDing creates in you that gives the impression you are valuable and may not always be available.

    When I started this program and tried to explain it, it sounded like I was strategizing and was never received well. I feel it’s none of the guy’s business what I do, who I may or may not be with when I am not with them.
    When asked directly, I jusy answer coyly, “I go out sometimes”

  204.  #204Amanda on September 21, 2013 at 5:46 am

    Lisa G #202
    Very interesting. I didn’t think about it coming out as strategizing. In my case he threw the question of exclusivity out to me very unexpectedly. I was dumbfounded and really stuttered through a half-baked explanation. He told me on the next date that he spoke to some female friends about it and they warned him to stay away from me. (Ugh, ladies…tell your lady friends about cding so we can get the word out)The funny thing is that the one girl that was so adamant about it is in a relaltionship with his best friend for almost a year and says she doesn’t really know if she likes him. So she’s wasting his time and hers.
    Anyway, the point is that I don’t necessarily want to lie about it, but you’re right, until I know precisely what to say and how I want to say it, I’m going to avoid the conversation if possible. But then at the same time I think, well this guy did end up being a total jerk who came to my house talking about us and how he wanted to make this work and then three days later stood me up, dumped me via txt and lied and said he was back with an ex who showed up out of the blue and it was really just some other girl he had started dating. I do not think he was going to be faithful to me anyway and by me continuing to CD I did have other guys in the rotation. So perhaps this CD thing just sped up the relationship and got him out there and on to his next prey a bit faster. Maybe if I hadn’t told him and we had been exclusive it would have taken me months to figure out who he was. Oh…so confusing.
    But in the end, for the right guy I need to think very hard about how I’m going to deal with the CD thing. In this case it worked in my favor in the long run, but if I’m wishy washy about it with the right guy it could cause problems.
    Thanks for your post. It gives me something to think about and I love it when I get a new idea in my head!!!

  205.  #205Linda G on September 21, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Rori has a “no boyfriend speech” in her programs and posts.

    When I asked her about it, she said after a few dates it’s too early for that
    She suggests saying things like I really enjoy being with you(if you really do)

    Sounds like he might be a bit insecure, immature, controlling

    Rori also warns, in Targeting Mr Right, that guys are gonna get mad about this, but if they want us, they get over it and it actually makes us more attractive

  206.  #206Julie on September 22, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Hi Ladies,

    I hope you are all well.

    I haven’t read all the responses to this post because I have been super busy, and I see from Rori’s addition that it has probably triggered a lot of ladies.

    Can I just say, for me personally I totally support Rori’s answer and I agree. It is exactly how I would take responsibility in that situation. We as women also have a responsibility within our relationships IF we want all the good things that come from a healthy, happy relationship.

    And I also agree that as women we are the emotional thermostat for the relationship. We tend to pick up first if things are off, and we take the first move to initiate healing. This is completely different from leaning forward and taking action, as the first move might simply be to go inside ourselves and get back into ‘ourselves’ and our feminine power, and then be open to our man when he approaches to talk, rather than angry and blaming.

    It’s not an easy way to be all the time… I still have to practice consciously a lot of the time, and yet the rewards make it worth it.

    Much Love.

    Julie. x

  207.  #207Rori Raye on September 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Welcome, Julie! Love, Rori

  208.  #208Meg on September 25, 2013 at 9:11 am

    I am so grateful to have found this treasure trove of useful advice and happy to report that applying what I have learned is completely and totally working for me with my partner, my soulmate and best friend, of nearly eight years! For the very first time, last night a problem that had been eating me for years was addressed in a way that was so deeply satisfying to me that I am going to keep using these tools forever. All I had to do was use feeling messages, lean back with an open heart, and keep an eye on my triggers and do the opposite of what wasn’t working. It worked like a charm and this man is a total emotional clam!

    My SO is currently having an episode of situational and probably deep-seated depression due to many factors going on his life now. I’m doing my best to make it better by encouraging him to take a lot of time off from work when I get a job. I’m deeply and securely in love with him and therefore I touch him and communicate to him often, but find he has not been reciprocating as much. I would say I have definitely been guilty of overfunctioning, and he agreed and expressed guilt for not being able to take any more initiative in the relationship at this time. He told me that when his emotional numbness runs its course that he would be more than happy to work on pursuing me more and making me feel wanted. I’m not prepared to keep giving and giving while feeling like its depleting me and not getting me the results I want with him (being more attentive and romantic).

    My question for Rori and other community members is what I can do to help him get to that point without reverting back to overfunctioning mode. I miss his “presence” in the relationship so much. Should I act like a mother and begin actively trying to heal him, or let him do the work himself and just wait? Thank you.

  209.  #209Rori Raye on September 25, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Meg – the word “mother” is the death knell of a romantic relationship. You can do NOTHING – but take care of YOU!! If you create a happy, vibrant, fun life for yourself, and radiate that energy without paying ANY attention at ALL to his state of mind – that’s when he’ll snap out of it. Get out of YOUR mind, get busy with new things (as exotic, sensational, mind-blowing and weird as you can – like acting classes, Toastmasters, flying planes, climbing walls…) and he’ll follow. He’ll just gravitate toward you. As long as he feels your focus on HIM, or damping down your life while you’re waiting for HIM, he’ll stay right where he is Love, Rori

  210.  #210Meg on September 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    That felt very motivational!

  211.  #211Kat on September 27, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I just want to buy your book. It is too expensive for me to buy any of your other products. I feel as tho you want us to buy more than just the book as the only option here is in order to buy your ebook, we have to pay $20 a month for other stuff. I am not good with going back and canceling something that I did not order in the first place. All I want is to buy your ebook. I tried to buy it on Amazon and it is no longer available. Does anyone want to sell me their copy? I am also going to check and see if it is at the local library. I would love to read this book, but all I want IS the book. Or should I say all I can afford is the book. Thank you. 🙂

  212.  #212cmythic ann on September 28, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    I have a terrifying true story of life long sexual abuse. Starting at the age of 7. Please let me know how i can write you

  213.  #213Rori Raye on September 30, 2013 at 7:43 am

    Kat! Download the ebook right now to your computer for $20 – if you really work with it (not just read it) it’ll change everything for you. Once you get the basics, and see change and results happening, I can get you private coaching for free with my coaching Trainees. Just press the picture of the book on the sidebar. UNCHECK the box for the Free Interviews so all you get is the book. Love, Rori

  214.  #214Rori Raye on September 30, 2013 at 7:55 am

    cmythic ann, Welcome, and I wrap my arms around you with a huge hug. I also hope with my whole heart that you’ve gotten help along the way. Unbelievably, something like one in three women has suffered sexual abuse of some kind (I’m so sorry at how terrifying and long your story is) and there are support groups and clinics and free coaches out there who can help you (and many groups that are not helpful at all, I know…). I will ask if any of my Coach Trainees has personal experience with sexual abuse, and can help you, they are terrific. Two of them are RN’s, and several have the depth of experience that will enable them to hear you fully, be there for you, and get you out into the world of love in the simplest, quickest way possible. If you’d like the list, write, and she’ll send you the contact info. Love, Rori

  215.  #215Feels worthless on October 4, 2013 at 10:42 am

    I want to comment on cheating and I know you yuan will think I’m a horrible person, today’s is the very first time I’ve ever been on this sight and I cried reading some of your comments. I got married when I was 19, we started dating when I was 17. After 7 years of marriage, we decided we wanted a child ( we both had good paying jobs and a “wonderful” marriage) so 17 months later I gave birth to the most precious 7.9 oz baby boy. When he was 15 months old we were in a terrible car accident almost killing my son, he was transferred to a children’s hospital but I couldn’t be released to go until later so my mom and husband went with him. When I got there my son was in surgery and my husband looked at me like he had seen a ghost then a few weeks later looked me in the eyes and said he wished I had died in that wreck! And then walked out on my son and me, I DID NOT understand why….. Til the girl knocked on my door later that night and shattered what I had thought was my perfect world. They wound up together for 2 weeks until she decided to go back to her husband so he came home and I begged him to come home the whole 2 weeks that he was with her.i tried to forgive and forget because I loved this man so very much but I just couldn’t forget all those terrible things he said to me, besides he wanted me dead, I wasn’t worth loving and no man would ever want me but 7 years later we were still married and as each of those years went by, I found out he cheated more times than he could remember,before we were even married 1year, ok I was tired if being belittled in front of everyone that we were around but I also truly accepted the fact that I am worthless and not capable of being loved. That was 12 years ago and he didn’t think he should have to pay child support so, he didn’t. My son is now 19 has a good job and wonderful girlfriend whom I think the world of, yea I know this is a long story but I’ve always felt pressure on my heart and I thought that maybe doin this May help me vent and maybe feel better. For 4or 5 years I didn’t date, run around have sex or anything plus I was diagnosed with 2 types of cancer, so I went through that alone, I wanted to just crawl in a hole and die…. ; ( well 17 months ago I walked past this guy and our eyes met and I think we both melted, he gave me the most beautiful smile and a few weeks later he kissed me and omg!!!!!!! It was the most awesome kiss I had ever had in my life!!! But he is married and I swore that after what I went through, I’d never do that but I fell so head over heels in love with this man and I feel ( yea I know he’s married) that he fell hard for me and this is way b4 sex was ever mentioned. We have soooo much in common that’s it’s unreal, he won’t go fishing, or basically anywhere for that matter,without me. I’ve met his friends and family as he has mine. Yes his wife found out,but he had already introduced me to basically everyone he knew and they all said that his marriage was terrible n his wife was so mean but she called me and I truly apologized to her n told her that I would stop seeing him if he told me it was over and tried not to be a b***h so I asked her if she loved him and she would not tell me she did and I said u just answered the ? By not answering the? And all she said is I’m not giving up my security I’m not leaving just for the fact that he wants me to. I know believe me I know how stupid I am n yes he tells me he will get the divorce no matter what she threatens, I just honest to God love him more than but also in a different way than I did my son’s dad. He’s with me 75% (or more) of the time when he’s not working and if he’s not with me, he’s on the phone with me. My son likes him except for the fact he’s not divorced and of course my ex-husband thinks I’m a terrible person for falling in love with a married man. He is wonderful to me and I couldn’t ask for more attention and affection than this man I love gives me, my heart stays broken but when I think of life without him, I honestly break out in tears

  216.  #216Feels worthless on October 4, 2013 at 11:00 am

    To:Rori Raye
    Thank you for the welcome so quickly, there is solo much more to my life and none of it good, that started when I was 6 years but I assume after my 1st post, everyone will think that I’m a horrible person and I truly have a heart as soft as a marshmallow.

  217.  #217Rori Raye on October 4, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Feels Worthless – my heart goes out to you. This is complex – and if you can enjoy this polyamorous relationship, then I say enjoy it. The wife doesn’t seem to care as long as she has the marriage certificate. She likely wouldn’t even mind if he moved in with you, as long as he didn’t divorce her.

    On the other hand, it’s up to him to divorce her – and – do you really care what happens? Are you happy with him the way it is? And what would happen if you started dating other men? Or at least Dating Yourself and Circular Dating?

    I encourage you to get some professional coaching – if you’d like to try out my Coach Trainees (they’re all amazing) – write and she’ll send you the list. You can coach for a full session with ALL of them if you like for FREE. Love, Rori

  218.  #218Rori Raye on October 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Hi, all, I just realized I put up a page for free coaching with my RRRCT Trainees! Here it is (they’re amazing coaches):

  219.  #219Feels worthless on October 4, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    No m’am, I’m not happy with him being married!!!!! He knows how much I love him and want us to be together, we just were talking on the phone and he’s coming over after work in about an hour. Anyway, like I said, he tells me and I hear him tell others that I’m his best friend, his lover, his fishing partner and his soulmate, that’s why it hurts so very bad that he can’t just go file for a divorce go the the bs he knows he’s gonna have to go through during the process and be done with it so we can start a real life together and again, he said that when he dies, he wants to be in my arms with his lips touching mines. He doesn’t drink, do any drugs what so ever and (for the most part) a very smart and level headed person.i always tell him that I love everything about him, except 1 and he knows what that is, it’s sad, really that someone can love another as much as I do him, I ADORE HIM!!!!!! He made me swear that I will be by his side 100% and go through this with him and always love him. He talks about our future together, where he wants us to travel, and things like that. Actually we wear matching bands, he gave me his wedding band. Most people think we are married ( to each other) and when they ask me, it breaks my heart. But as I said, my heart can’t take the thought of him not being my life partner.

  220.  #220Feels worthless on October 4, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    No m’aam!!! I’m not happy with the situation, I want him to step up and keep his promise and divorce her. I told him tonight that I’m tired of begging and pleading and that I want him to either tell me that I’m always gonna be just a girlfriend and give me the choice to be just that or walk away and he said he can’t live without me but I know sometimes people know to say exactly what another needs to hear. But we wear matching bands on our left ring fingers, he gave me his wedding band. Most people think me and him are married and when they ask I just wanna cry and he sees that and he looks me in the eyes and says yes we are and then tells me that I am his wife in his heart but I did reply with that’s not good enough, we’re too old to pretend I’m 46 and he’s 50 and he hasn’t been married to her that long so I did brave up a little tonight and said its time, no more words, no more promises, I want to see results. You either love me enough or you don’t! SHOW ME!!!! And that was a little pun cause I lived in Missouri ( just trying to make myself smile a lil bit) he made me promise that I would stand by him 100% when he’s going thru the divorce and I promised that I would. But I firmly said what my heart felt and that I wasn’t begging him anymore, cause it won’t allow myself to hurt this much for very long, it’s been a lifetime it seems as it is, when you’re heart breaks every time he walks out your door. 🙁 although my heart aches when I think of him not being in my life,I just want him to make me his world, I think or at least pray I deserve that much! Had she loved him when I talked to her instead of making it out to be a child’s game of “you’re not winning” I’m sure he’s told you that I’m a b***h! And my remark was actually we don’t talk about you when were together. My point and I guess my defense is had she truly loved him, she would have made it clear (but just couldn’t say she loved him)when I asked her if she loved him. She woulda been like me and professed her love for her man and she wanted to be in the marriage not the house. That’s all she would talk about is her security and of course him not caring one way or another what she does or where she goes, but I guess that just gives him more time to spend with me. I don’t know Rori, I’m hurting so bad and so very confused, I feel like I’m going crazy sometimes.

  221.  #221Feels worthless on October 4, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Oh and one more thing,the part where you asked about me dating other guys,he has told me that just the thought of me considering going out with another just breaks his heart, again, if I mean that much too him, how can he not be afraid of losing me by not choosing me? I’ve done and went through so much more than I ever thought I would for any man, my son not included, I feel like if I did go anywhere with another guy that I’d be cheating on him and that stops me dead in my tracks cause I know what my heart feels as I’ve tried to convince it otherwise, a heart wants what a heart wants and I truly believe that you don’t choose who you fall in love with, your heart does it without realizing that you are in fact in love. I never wanted to be with a married man but I also didn’t choose to fall in love with one either,so trying to take time away from him probably isn’t an option,

  222.  #222Indigo on October 5, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Feels worthless,

    I hope you don’t mind me commenting, but for me what jumped out at me when I was reading your posts is that the far bigger problem than your relationship with this man, is how you feel about yourself. Loving yourself, feeling worthy, believing in your own greatness, loveableness and beauty is so essential to happiness, and this can be achieved far quicker than you probably think. I believe that if you do so, you will realize how lucky he is to have you, and that it is most certainly not over for you if this relationship with this man turns out to be too painful and your decide to end it. I would strongly encourage you to spend some time getting to know and love yourself, doing things outside of this relationship that make you feel good and happy.

  223.  #223Feels worthless on October 5, 2013 at 10:06 am

    No I don’t mind you commenting, it actually makes me feel like some listens to and can understand how I feel. 1st off, I have never had a bit of self confidence, and my ex-husband shredded the idea of me ever having any. I feel very uncomfortable around like out of place or I don’t belong,ya know? I’ve always been scared to do anything(dance, play sports or even just try to fit in) I’ve always felt like I was being watched and made fun of for whatever reason, no matter what I was doing. I have left so many situations and gatherings because I have felt so out of place, sometimes even at my own mom’s house. We enjoy so many things together (my boyfriend and I). And he is the most compliment giving man I’ve ever been around, he is always telling how beautiful he thinks I am and how much he adores me. He says I am his “Babygirl” I don’t know what my problem is. I was molested by my uncle when I was 5 and it lasted for a few years and I was way too afraid to tell anyone!!!!!! I knew it was very wrong but I didn’t know what to do or who to tell, I knew I hated it and felt so ashamed of myself. Any thoughts you have, I would love to hear if you don’t mind communicating with me. Thanks for replying to my post Hun!!!!

  224.  #224Femininewoman on October 5, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Oh my. What a name to CHOOSE for yourself, regardless of what is happening. Are you willing to at least consider changing your name or trying to talk to yourself?

  225.  #225Indigo on October 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Feels worthless,

    Feminine Woman is right. Changing your name on here would be a good step. There is no reason to call yourself that or talk to yourself that way. And a large part of it is going to come from how you talk to and about yourself. It is going to come from you catching yourself when you think thoughts like, everyone is making fun of me, I don’t fit in, I have no self-confidence, I don’t know what my problem is, etc. etc. … and replacing those thoughts with something gentle and loving and positive. I promise you these thoughts you have about yourself are not true.

  226.  #226Rori Raye on October 6, 2013 at 9:22 am

    Feeling W – Don’t know what more you can do than you’re doing, except require marriage. Sounds to me like anything even resembling an ultimatum here would damage what you have. Like most things – you can either accept what you have or reject it and leave. Then he has to make his decision. Threatening is useless. If he’s unable, he’s unable. Love, Rori

  227.  #227Beatriz on October 8, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Hi Rori my story had a relationship for 12yrs, 3months ago I found that he had a relationship of 8yrs, I called she came over his house and confronted him and he said I never promised you or her marriage, because both is ate divorced I have two boys and she has three kids and when was not available he will spend time with her and vice versa, that they she came to the house she said is over, and he said sorry I will stay with you cause I love and we have 12yrs together, I really need to talk to you more things to tell you

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