Never Say I Love You First

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My husband’s away for a bit, with his family on the east coast, and I opted to stay home and create a lovely “retreat” for myself.

This morning he called, it was a nice talk, I said I miss you and he said nothing back, just kept talking about something else, then I said I love you, and he said nothing back, just went ahead talking about stuff, finishing up the call, I said “…if you don’t tell me you love me I’m going to be mad….”

He backtracked and of course said it….whewwweee….

How weird are emotions?

Lesson – never say I love you unless you’re positive you’re not expecting anything in return – which is NEVER going to happen…because it’s IMPOSSIBLE not to notice that a man doesn’t say it back….so even after all these years, I still have to be cool and lean back…

I walk my talk, and I shared with him on the next call (he started calling even more often and saying I love you for sure…) how weird all that felt, and that I didn’t want him to feel obligated to say he loves me, but that it feels really bad when he doesn’t – so how is this landing for him?

So he told me he didn’t feel any obligation – (guess what – men DON’T feel obligated!!! That’s a “woman” thing we’ve been taught and fed and made to feel guilty about…) and I realized at that moment that I was making something out of nothing.

Exactly like I talk about here.

I really, really wanted him to say I love you.

It was so important to me, apparently, that I was waiting for it. I was noticing the absense of it. I cared whether he said it or not.

I was feeling all kinds of things, with him not there with me.

I had all kinds of expectations and conflicting feelings. I felt angry – even though I had no “cause” to be angry. I felt frustrated. I felt sad. I felt happy. I felt all kinds of things and was only aware of some of them.

But it all comes down to ONE THING.

I could easily have processed my feelings. There on the call with him, or after…I could have written here about it, or journalled, or cried, or danced and sang or drawn and painted or gone somewhere or channeled in so many ways.

But, instead – I said I love you first.

I tried to get him to say it by saying it first.

This wasn’t walking my talk. This was an old thing coming up.

I wasn’t truly sharing my feelings, expressing myself.

It wasn’t love I was talking – it was – “I’ll say it and then YOU’LL say it!”

I was trying to GET him to say it.

I didn’t know it at the time.

I thought I was just being loving.

I thought I didn’t really have an agenda.

I thought I didn’t really care if he said it or not after all these 20 plus years together.

I knew he loves me, and so I thought I didn’t feel insecure or WANT anything from him. And so I said it.

And guess what. I was wrong.

I felt like every other woman on the planet who says I love you first. I felt BAD. I felt stupid.

I felt those things because he didn’t respond quickly enough. He didn’t get the message. He didn’t pick up on the clue.

And so – I started feeling MORE things.

Now – imagine if we do this all day long. With our man, our children, our friends. What if there’s ALWAYs a hidden agenda?

What if we’re not all as “together” as we seem to be or think we are?

What if simple things like affection and attention and words are NOT so very simple?

What if everything’s some kind of signal to our more primitive, old-habit brain?

I re-discovered that, for me at least – that’s the truth.

I didn’t just cancel out my entire programming and habits. I may have replaced them with much better skills and more awareness and knowledge and love of myself – but – those Nasty Voices and inner pressures are still THERE.

They don’t go away.

So – the trick here is to catch it when it happens.

I caught it. I spoke what I caught.

I wish I could have laughed, but I didn’t feel that – I felt silly, but not in a fun sort of way. Later I laughed, and now I’m telling you so I can feel the bitterweetness of how even the smallest thing can trigger us.

So here’s the deal: Have faith that the Tools work. Maybe not instantly, at every moment, exactly the way you want them to – at your fingertips ready to go into action – but once you catch something, and get an awareness you didn’t have before – everything shifts.

The old habits get fuzzier, and the new skills and powers and depth of real feeling come forward and fill your energy with more light and clarity.

And this can happen especially when you make a “mistake.”

Saying and doing something that ends up making you feel bad because it actually started as an old habit thought – still – that can open up a NEW door for you. Like this little thing did for me.

No matter what – you still cannot say I love you first.

Yes – You must open your heart first. Always. You must be like an open book with the pages that are you –  flying free for everyone to see. The colorful ones and the black and white ones, and the empty ones, too.

But the words. The words come from places we don’t always see.

If I had said: ” I’m noticing that I’m sort of waiting for you to say I love you. This feels really weird after being with you so long…” – that would have been different. That would have been my book open.

But, instead – I tried for a higher spiritual plane where it didn’t “matter” that I said it first. And I discovered that I said it as a “trick.”

So – look for YOUR tricks – start to notice them when you want to do them.

I’ll be working right alongside you, doing my Tools, waving my arms in the water and the air like the Siren I am, floating in the sweet, flosing waters of myself, and picturing you doing the same.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Sasha J on July 4, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Thank you Rori,

    I felt a little release in my chest reading this;

    it feels so easy to feel used to a new ‘level’ i get to, where it feels like, ok , this feels like the new ‘high’ and i feel a little free-er, a little more connected.

    and then the ever-present old-habit thought comes up and sometimes i can feel bowled over…and i am learning to ask what is the message here, and hug myself for noticing.

    last night i was feeling exhausted trying to go to sleep and a text came from my mother from overseas; usually when i don’t hear from them i assume no news is good news. that has always been the case. this was about my dad raging at my sister, etc. and the all too automatic..falling apart feeling, the feeling of dread and
    almost disdain ( i felt anger that i am supposed to be her emotional support and she has never been mine, about things that i felt i would fare better without, like how bad my dad is, etc etc….for a while i wished she would grow a pair…and as i have been learning to heal myself and love myself i have been able to feel more kindly towards my parents).

    i felt so frustrated and hot tears which had nothing to do with the issue at hand….and….i feel strangely amazed…a part of me started talking myself through this…that i didn’t have to feel like my world got messed up just because i was feeling the same feelings of burden, inadequacy and responsibility for my family’s happiness and awful feeling of abandonment and not-perfect-enough-so-my-parents-will-hate-each-other that feels so etched into my being, that feels like it is an integral part of who i am…that it is ok and i felt like i had just got forced into murky water without asking to be (indignant) and then last night i decided to feel that murky water, feel my breathe being cut short, and ; let the water, no matter how murky, take me to the surface.

    i dozed off for a few minutes. woke up, and texted my sister instead. it felt like a new route, a new path, and inasmuch as she is a very depressed 18 year old, i did not feel scared of failing, suddenly i felt my strong insides…felt strong with love…to be a good sister to her, to finally be one person who is not forcing my ideals on her…who she ought to be, what she needs to do.

    later that evening, i chatted with the lovely new man in my life, who was there while i circular dated , and was feeling too caught up with 2 other guys that i didn’t feel engrossed with him….i felt understood, heard and loved, and i feel slightly amazed, because for the first time, i did not fall apart because of my family dramas; i still felt upset, and felt teary, and yet it all had a shimmery feel to it. and for the first time, i did not feel like i had to heap my awful feelings on him and make him take them away.

    and for the past few surf sessions, i felt dismayed because i felt like i was supposed to be at a level where i felt no fear, so that i could surf like a pro (go easy on yourself there, darling!) and now reading this, i realise that the fear and doubt will always be there….baby steps, baby steps 🙂

    thak you

  2.  #2Lizzie on July 4, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Ugh, now I feel totally stupid… I caved to my internal cave-man-lizard-brain and sent an email on my drive home to Family Guy whom I haven’t seen or spoken with in a month. I was in the last 2 hours of a 11-hour drive to drop my kids at summer camp and get home. I was stuck in stop and go traffic and almost out of gas. So I picked up my blackberry and sent him a message! I feel like such an idiot, my heart is sinking, like I failed myself – I had been doing so well with leaning back and not contacting him. Now he will probably never contact me again and my vibe will have changed to some pathetic neediness garbage and I am not even needy. And Rori is right – there is a ulterior motive – I want him to ask me out on a date. I can feel that awful heart sinking feeling, tightness in my chest, my neck is stiff and I feel dizzy and heavy headed. I am glad I can feel the tension I created for myself, I can let that go now, it is flowing up my throat and making me thirsty. It is flowing down my arms now and out my fingers as I type this.

    What on earth do I do now? I am sure I am not supposed to send a note saying – oh, I sent you that note to keep from falling asleep the last part of my 11-hour drive, and now I feel bad and stupid because I don’t want to create pressure, what is your take?

    Or can I do that? so how do I undo something as dumb as what I did?

  3.  #3Kesha on July 4, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I recently purchased your products.(Targeting Mr.Right) I am really learning alot and and enjoying them. I would like to share some of my story with you. I met this man through a mutual friend. I was not attracted to him right away,but he started to get to me the more time we spent together. He initiated the first call. He always called me first. This guy a called me every night at the same time. This man worked at a fast food chain. He told me that he didn’t have a car. Because,him not having transportation was the reason he hadn’t been dating.So I drove to his house,because he didn’t have a car. I know you say don’t drive to a man. I agree with you. I am so glad I know better. He later told me that he had been to prison for 25 years. I was shocked to hear this. I am a professional person. I am a teacher. My first response after hearing this news was to run. But ,then I thought he’s a nice guy I’ll give him a chance. This man later told he felt comfortable talking to me about anything. After, a month talking to this man he stopped calling. I did not call him. I did not go to his house. I went on with my life. A few weeks later,he came to my job and left a note on my car. He started to call again. He told me he had lost his cell phone and he did not know my phone number by heart. We started to see each other every day. We were did alot of making out. But, we had not had sexual intercourse. He was constantly asking to have sex. I did not agree to have sex with until after I’d known him for six months.I need to mention I had asked him how he felt about me. He responded by saying I have strong feeling for you. Before,I had sex with him he started calling me less and started to withdraw. I started to chase him. I called him until he answered my calls. I asked him to be honest with me. He said”he wanted to teach me a lesson.” He would call I wouldn’t answer and call him back two hours later. He would say”you know I’m going to call so expect my calls.” After he said that I said”there more to it than that” He later he’d met someone and he was going to see where it would go” I said”o.k.” We are friends. Thanked him for being honest with me and said goodbye. After he was said he exploring options,I did not call him,I did not see him.He called me and asked to see me. He said that person that interested in he was no longer seeing her. We started see each other again every day. I had sex with him. We had been seeing each other about six months.Before,we had sex the second time I told him I wanted to be sexually exclusive with him.He told me had alot of female friends and he was honest with me and he was not ready to be exclusive. I said fine “we can be friends” He upset so got out of the car stormed into the house. I did not follow him I drove away. He called a few days later but I did not hear my phone so I didn’t answer. I did return his call but he didn’t answer so I didn’t call back. I saw him a month are so later. He waved and let his window down. I just smiled and waved. He kept waving .I did not realize he wanted me let my window until after I drove off. Ihave called or spoken him since

  4.  #4Simply Shannon on July 4, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Thank you for sharing yourself with us Rori. I feel your humanity in this post. Like you’re here sharing as a friend too and not just a coach. I feel really good and relieved reading this post.

  5.  #5Simply Shannon on July 4, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Lizzie: Ride it out. See what he says. Stop this movie you’ve got going in your head that says this will turn out badly. I feel better treating my experiments as an opportunity to learn a lesson. Sending a man an unsolicited text feels bad, yes? So next time I’ll learn that I don’t want to do that.

    But don’t set yourself up for disappointment before he’s even responded. Ride it out. And learn the lesson. If I touch that stove when it’s hot (aka texting him), it will burn me. Get it? You didn’t do anything wrong.

  6.  #6Lizzie on July 4, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks Shannon – I appreciate your message – perspective is everything. lesson taken.

  7.  #7Chris on July 4, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    This comment is relevant to me right this moment. I went on one date with a guy from online site,since then he has asked me out 2 times but I have been pmsing(bitchy and unwell)and he waits until last minute and I prefer to have a bit of a plan…so this is all through txts and those are hard to interpret even if you know someone well…so I get the feeling through these txts that he is feeling dissed/avoided so all of a sudden I am leaning forward and overthinking and trying to make him feel better and he said he would just talk to me tomorrow. So I decided I was going to just phone him and say why I am putting him off,but he didn’t answer and so I didn’t leave msg now he is txting asking what’s up . I said I was feeling weird and misunderstood ,but it could wait until tomorrow. So I feel soooo leany forward and game playing and silly right now and have thus made the situation into something when really I don’t owe him any explanation and I felt sooo gross leaning forward even as I was doing it ….yuck ….yuck yuck ……

  8.  #8Rori Raye on July 4, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    Kesha, Welcome – and if you stick to the “Targeting” plan – this will never again happen to you. Please read your comment as if it wasn’t you writing it…this is the behavior and life of a woman who craves “drama.” You may be a professional – a teacher – but that doesn’t mean you aren’t being run by some old programming inside you – and this drama thing is yours. Real relationships are simple and straightforward. You meet a man, he calls, you return calls, he texts, you text back, you spend time together, then more time together, it’s easy, it’s fun, he’s leaning in and obviously, clearly crazy about you, and a good guy to boot. simple. You just keep on spending time together, you talk about what you each want, you make sure you’re on the same page about the important things and negotiate the rest, and THAT’S a relationship! No drama. No insecurities or craziness that you cannot TALK about! No back and forth, and no games. Love, Rori

  9.  #9Rori Raye on July 4, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Chris, Welcome – and this is a tremendous learning experience for you. Texts are easy to misinterpret. That’s why it’s so important to say everything you feel as much as you can. The younger you and a man are, the more “spontaneous” and “last minute” the dates seem to be…but they also seem to move to boyfriend/girlfriend quicker, too – because when you’re young, boyfriend/girlfriend is a fine situation. As we get older, we feel more like planning. The thing you can work on here is your bitchy PMS thing. You can get a handle on this by researching herbs and health store products…and by saying how you feel instead of “acting it out.” All you need to say is “I prefer a bit of a plan and some notice…I don’t always do well with last minute dates – what do you think we can do so that I feel more comfortable seeing you?” Love, Rori

  10.  #10dinah on July 5, 2010 at 12:22 am

    dear rory,

    i’ve been reading your site – i really like it. also ordered the e-book and read it. i’m 53 and single. for the last 3 years i have had no relationships, and pursued none, since i have moved and was not happy in my new life, and had a lot of stuff to deal with – including job problems. survival mode. i look ok and am intelligent and friendly but i sort of lost interest and energy. the last 2 weeks i have suddenly been on 2 dates, following the arrival of 2 interesting requests for contact on an internet dating site on which i have a non-active profile. it has “awakened me” and there i was looking for what to wear and painting my toenails red… i met with one of them who was very interesting and very much enthusiastic about me in the mails and the telepone call. when we got out of the car i felt although he was dissapointed (in the way i look – an old “hang up” of mine) and although the meeting was long it was very “intellectual”. we parted with me feeling confused. he e-mailed the next day and i answered, thanking him for what i called a “generous” offer to help me with marketing my expertise. he answered saying it wasn’t a truly generous offer because what he is hoping for is to “combine meditation (sex) with it”. i blew up! i was so angry, i don’t really understand why. tried not to be dramatic, waited a few days, wrote back with what i thought was a “i feel” and “stating my boundaries” message. i said i didn’t like that sentence and asked in what i now think was a critical way what it was supposed to mean. also said i need to feel good when i go to bed with a man in order not to feel bad later. 2 days later he wrote back that he “can’t answer now will write soon”, and dissapeared. i am trying to let go, but i feel like i made a mistake, i didn’t say it right, maybe it was his awkwardness, maybe it was my “story”, maybe i didn’t notice that he really was attracted to me, and maybe i am just dissapointed that the first date since a long time has not turned out. i don’t understand the whole blowing hot and cold in it. i tried doing your circular dating and went out with the other guy and he left abruptly and that was the end of that. it did feel better having someone else but not i have to find others. my question – i have lots – if the first one really liked me would that mail of mine have driven him away? how do you deal with the need “to fix your mistake”? and more basic than that – dating while you’re struggling with life issues such as finding work and financial problems – hard to build your self-esteem on many levels at the same time – should you put it off? the belief stopping me was “i should first get my life in order, because who would want someone who is not too happy with her life, or gotten it together”?
    tons of questions, i guess it’s the coming back to the scene. i’m trying to thank these 2 men for inviting me back to the dating scene but it’s going hard and i am afraid that i will go back into my shell again.

  11.  #11dinah on July 5, 2010 at 12:35 am

    i’m 53 and single, out of the dating scene for 3 years, dealing with on-going financial and carreer challenges, leaving little energy and a belief that “i need to get those fixed before i look for a guy”. suddenely got 2 mails from guys on a non-active profile of mine. went out with one after enthusiastic mails and phone call. in the mtg he was cold emotionally but we had a really intellectual mtg. left me feeling mixed up and a bit dissapointed. followed up with mail from him and answer from me thanking him for generous offer to help me with marketing (declined until i get to know him better). followed up by txt msg “offer wasn’t really generous, he wanted to combine it with meditation (sex)…” my fuse blew up, txted him back stating boundaries and not happy with that sentence. answered he couldn’t write now but will later. dissapeared. i find myself wanting to “fix my mistake”, wondering why i blew up, did i dramatize, maybe was a compliment, etc. trying hard not to call, txt or something. tried to circular date with the other guy and didn’t work out (normal). finding it hard not to sink into depression, need to conserve my energy for other challenges piling up on me. do you date when you are “low” in other areas of your life? how long to wait before you become that “happy with herself and her life person”? was i a drama queen in that example?

  12.  #12Gigi on July 5, 2010 at 12:37 am

    I’ve been reading here and learning much from everyone, however find myself looking for some feedback and wishing I had handled things a bit differently on a date this weekend. I was contacted by a guy (Woodworker) on a dating site a few weeks ago. I wrote back and we had a short exchange. He wanted to talk on the phone and I wasn’t completely sure, but decided that I would. We talked on the phone and he was talking about how difficult it is to meet people and I ended up saying I had met a few guys lately and although they weren’t matches we had a good time. I ended up telling him I thought we ought to just meet. He said he wanted to and asked me whether coffee or dinner or anything that I wanted and for a suggestion of a location. I thought of a dinner place that would be kind of in the middle and he was happy with the idea. We met the next evening at the restaurant. I was a bit surprised that he looked better than his photo and found him somewhat attractive. Since I’d been there before he asked for suggestions and we had a wonderful dinner. When the bill came I did reach for my purse because I felt like I ought to pay or be prepared to pay when it was our first meeting and I had suggested we ought to just meet. He said we could split it and we did. I had mixed feelings about that and would like the guy to pay .

    Before we left he asked me over the following weekend for dinner or dinner and a movie on Saturday night and I agreed. He said he would call. The next day he emailed through the dating site asking me if I’d be interested in going to a park that I had mentioned the night before that I had never been to. I wrote back telling him that it sounded like fun and I had felt good being with him the night before. The next evening he called to firm up our Saturday plans to meet at 3:00 pm at his house (since it was on the way) and we ended up talking for about 40 minutes. Nothing was mentioned about eating and I thought I would wait to see how much fun we were having and whether that materialized. About 2:20 he called to say he needed another hour and moved it to 4:00 pm. When I arrived at his house I realized that I would need to move my car if we were to take his car and that seemed a bit complicated since he lived on a fairly busy street and has about four cars himself (all old cars with two in the garage and one in an area that would allow you to move a car in and out if a car wasn’t already occupying the space.) He assumed I would drive. I said that I would love it if he would drive, so we had to do what he calls “the shuffle” and move my car out and then his car out and mine back in. In the meantime I had to wait for him to clean out his car of empty water bottles and books and papers. Then we were on our way. We had a pretty pleasant time walking on trails close to a river and getting to know each other better. After a little over 1 ½ hours we headed back towards his home . He said something about how I may be a bit hungry and that he had bought barbequed pork the night before and would I want some? I said that I really don’t eat much meat. Then he said he did have some roast beef, but I probably wouldn’t want that either. Then how meat is really all he eats and he couldn’t eat a meal without meat. Although he had eaten with me on earlier in the week and I had suggested a feta cheese pesto artichoke pizza that the waitress said was her favorite and I agreed and he loved it! So, he didn’t eat any meat that night. Anyhow, he asked if I’m a vegetarian and I said pretty much. I really don’t like to make a big deal about it. I know it can impact things, but I’m not out to try to change other people, as long as I can find something that will work for me to eat. Anyhow, he was asking me to tell him something about my life and I was talking and the next thing we were sitting in his driveway and the motor was still running and my car was sitting there in front of us and he was just looking straight ahead and not saying anything. Then it hit me that he was waiting for me to get out and move my car. I paused and he didn’t say anything or look at me. So, I just kind of got the fight or flight feeling and thanked him for the hike and told him to have a good evening and he said “you too” and I went to my car and he moved his car and I left. It was such an abrupt ending and I was thinking originally that he may take me out to dinner since that had been the original plan. Actually I didn’t feel comfortable to just go to his house and eat on a second date. Even though we’d been walking in the woods it just felt like being too familiar too soon and I wanted him to woo me. Anyhow, I had some attraction to him although also noticed more pock marks than I’d seen the other day. I wanted him to woo me more. And, I didn’t want for things to get too familiar and easy by being in his home so quickly. I didn’t know if I ought to suggest we go out somewhere to eat as I did want him to treat me. I wanted him to be “the guy” by driving to a place that he was familiar with and then if things went well to take me out to eat. I haven’t heard from Woodworker and doubt that I will. And, I’m not so sure I want to hear from him . But, I wish I’d handled things differently and expressed my feelings, yet not exactly sure what would have been the best way to do that. Any thoughts?

  13.  #13Jennifer on July 5, 2010 at 6:43 am

    So so what?
    I’m still a rock star
    I got my rock moves
    And i don’t need you
    And guess what
    I’m having more fun
    And now that we’re done
    I’m gonna show you tonight
    I’m alright, I’m just fine
    And you’re a tool
    So so what?
    I am a rockstar
    I got my rock moves
    And i don’t want you tonight

    Random song lyrics.

  14.  #14Denise on July 5, 2010 at 7:27 am

    Rori, thank you so much for that post! Goes to show you that no one is perfect, and we all make ‘mistakes’. As humans, we all have boundary holes. It’s using our observing ego that helps to patch those holes (as best as possible) and to use our observing ego to learn about ourselves.

    I can so identify with the blog entry.

  15.  #15Denise on July 5, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Lizzie, I have been in your shoes. Was in a relationship that was wonderful, but he was not ready to be in such a relationship. It took me 7 months to fully get over that. And during that time, and even now sometimes, I will contact him. Because, like you, I want him to ask me out on a date…and he obviously is not going to.

    It’s hard, because I don’t want him to forget about me. I’d like us to have a chance in the future…but I can’t control that, I just have to think the universe will do what it needs to do in regard to this man, whatever that may be.

    What I did was erase his phone number from my cell phone to help avoid texting him. Unfortunately, I have his email memorized, so that still leaves me vulnerable. Because I don’t have feelings for him anymore, it’s easier now not to contact him via email either.

    He knows how to contact me. If he wants me, that’s what he’ll do. And if not, then he wasn’t the man for me afterall.

    Just wanted to share my experience because I’ve done the same thing you did, more than one time! UGHHH! Oh well…

  16.  #16Rori Raye on July 5, 2010 at 10:09 am

    dinah, Welcome, and I so understand your challenges, and here’s my answer: This is all about EXPERIENCE. You have NONE! You are like a young, inexperienced girl trying to figure out dating, and men, and sex, and getting pushed and pulled by new things you don’t understand. This is going to take some reading, some watching and listening to the programs, and just plain PRACTICE! Circular Dating is not about finding your Mr. Right (though it’s the fastest way to have that happen) – it’s about PRACTICE, and getting experience. Right now – you’re just making WAY too much about EVERYTHING – sex, what he says, what you say…after awhile and perhaps 100 men – you’ll start to get a feel for how this goes, and let go a bit of all your rigid expectations and ideas. Self-esteem is the ticket here, yes, and getting work you love will help incredibly. Love, Rori

  17.  #17Lizzie on July 5, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thanks Denise – interestingly when I met him and found out he had only been separated for a year, my heart sunk because it occurred to me that he wouldn’t be ready for a relationship. I thought that would be ok because I am a sole-support single mom of 2 teens and the father hasn’t seen the kids in 5 years – I think that makes me a pretty poor catch for guys my age category (I seem to date men whose kids are grown and some even have grand children, they are so shocked when they find out the father is a “dead-beat” especially after going through the horrors of international adoption – they put on their PF Fliers and run rapidly in the other direction!). I had such a nice time with this guy – and he has such a complicated situation – that I thought ….. well …. I thought and that is a problem. On to the next one…..and I will pay much more attention to my heart feelings.

  18.  #18Lizzie on July 5, 2010 at 10:54 am

    100 men Rori!??!!! oh my…where will I find 100 men….where will I find the energy to play with 100 men….

  19.  #19Claire on July 5, 2010 at 10:56 am

    I haven been engaged to a guy for three years. I have a nice engagement ring. My problem is that I cannot get him to set a wedding date. He does not want a wedding, just go to the courthouse. I guess he thinks I will just wear a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. I am a teacher and he promised that we would get married this summer after the school year ended. Here it is July and he has not mentioned getting married. What should I do? He will not set a date and I cannot jump and get married when he says jump.

  20.  #20Rori Raye on July 5, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Claire, Welcome, and this reminds me of the first Sex and the City movie – he wanted it simple…Claire, if you’re happy with him, and he’s just shy of a big “event” – if it were me, I’d do the courthouse, wear something pretty that would make me feel good, and then throw a party after…but that’s me…(I assume you already live together and the rest of this is already going well for you?). I’d just say – hey – it’s Monday – a good day to go to the courthouse and get married? What do you think? We could invite everyone over for a party later….? Love, Rori

  21.  #21Daria on July 5, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    apparently Rori is jumping on my “direct” bandwagon too… yahoo

  22.  #22Claire on July 5, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    That’s easy to say, go to the courthouse and get married but how do I get him to say when? Everytime I mention it, he puts me off. We did live together for a year when I was teaching in the county where he lives. I have a house in another town nearby but too far to commute to work everyday. He promised me that we would get married when I accepted the job in his town. He did not live up to his promise. Now I am living in my hometown and he has moved down as well. We do not live together although we are in the same town. He has moved all his stuff to his uncle’s modular home. He never spends the night at my house. When his uncle is in town on the weekends, he is always out at the farm doing stuff for him. We never go anywhere on the weekend if “uncle” is coming to town. We end up cooking and cleaning up after the crowd leaves. I am tired of the same ole thing every weekend. Maybe this is an eye opener?

  23.  #23aprilshowers on July 5, 2010 at 5:44 pm


    Rori is so generous to share all of her great life experiences with us. I have yet to find 1 that hasn’t worked for me. I have 2 friends who are Rori-devotees as well. Both will probably be married by this time next year.

    I feel bad about your Woodworker experience. In the future, it might help to stop doing so much or “overfunctioning” like Rori says.

    You 1)drove to his house, 2)picked the restaurant, 3) suggested a dish for him to try, 4) paid for your portion of the meal, 5) accepted a last-minute date, and 6) went on the date after he “pushed it back” 2 hours.

    Honey, don’t you deserve more than that? You said you wanted him to “woo” you. You wanted him to pay the bill. When did you give him a chance to?

    Rori’s stuff works. Truly. Stop fighting it. Stop doing it your way. It doesn’t work.

  24.  #24Gigi on July 5, 2010 at 6:48 pm


    Thanks so much for your feedback! My story was rather long and ran together and I was thinking I may not get any responses. I do thank you for taking the time to read and comment!

    I would agree I did do some over functioning. I also feel like I did some leaning back. And, not sure if you are referring to the first date we made on Sunday for Monday night being the “last minute date acceptance.”

    Woodworker asked me about ¾ of the way through the Monday night dinner for a date the following weekend. And, over the next two days (Tuesday and Wednesday) we firmed up the plans when he emailed and also called me.

    I did accept showing up an hour later after he called needing more time to shower. And, I did drive to his house. That was one thing I wasn’t sure about because he lives on the way to where we were going and I didn’t want him to pick me up just yet. However when he assumed I would drive us from his house I said I would love for him to drive.

    I did feel a bit bad that the original idea that he had of dinner or dinner and a movie turned into only a trip to walk at a park and then later the offer to eat some barbeque pork he picked up the night before at his house. I felt like it was too soon for just going back to his house for dinner when I barely knew him. And, I was hoping then that he would pay for my dinner that night. It just felt kind of icky to me. And, I was thinking if Woodworker really liked me he would want to treat me to dinner.

    I was trying to lean back and let him make the plans, so I didn’t suggest we go anywhere. And when we were just sitting in his driveway with the car running and he was looking straight ahead (my car was parked ahead of his and he had to move his for me to get out) I thanked him for the trip out to the park. Then I told him I hoped he had a nice rest of his evening. And he said “you too.” But, it felt so abrupt. I do want a guy to treat me well.

    Anyhow, it is great to hear about how you and your friends are such Rori advocates and that two friends will be getting married this year. I want to get so much better with the Rori way and get to my forever after! Thanks!!

  25.  #25Brenda on July 5, 2010 at 7:07 pm


    You amaze me over and over! Thank you so much for this blog thread entry! I really feel close to you when you are willing to be so vulnerable to share a little moment in your personal life like that with us!

    And, it was beautiful how you shared it. I so appreciate your insight and understanding of the dynamics of relationships. I can’t thank you enough how you’ve changed my life!


  26.  #26Jennifer on July 5, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    OOOOOOHHHHHHH I has been a bad little goddess..
    I emailed military communications guy.
    I knew better and I did it anyway.
    At first I thought I was doing it to be nice…he seemed bummed when he realized he might not see me for three weeks cause I’m on nights and he’s going away for two for training.
    Now…Like my dear Rori, I realize I was leaning forward. D’OH!!!
    Now I feel all sinky in my tummy cause he hasn’t emailed me back.
    AND I did some shopping….GRRRRR BAD GODESS…
    I love me anyway and my new pants make my booty look SMOKIN hot, AND I got a light sort of Candy blue clingy top…HELLO! On a redhead! SNAP! I rock!

  27.  #27Brenda on July 5, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    I finally heard a little tiny bit from Ryan, so here it is… 🙁

    I had contacted him yesterday asking if he would please just give me the peace of mind one way or the other if we are friends or not anymore. I just needed SOME type of closure after giving him 9 months of my life.

    He texted me that he was going to bed and would talk to me today. I waited until 9 pm (EST) and still nothing. So I texted him:

    Me: I feel angry and disrespected.
    Ryan: I lost your number.
    Me: I feel deceived.
    Ryan: I hadn’t saved the new number yet.
    Me: I feel sad and yucky. I feel bad that you aren’t answering my question if you are still my friend. What do you think?
    Ryan: I’m sorry.
    Ryan: I sent a text to your old number then realized it wasn’t you.
    Me: Thank you! What did it say?
    Ryan: They said who is this
    Ryan: It’s hard to be your friend right now with all this stuff going on.
    Me: You mean the schizphrenia? If so, I am saying I purely want to be your platonic friend with no strings attached. You can’t have too many friends, right? (I don’t WANT commitment right now in his current toxic condition, but I want just friendship cuz I love him as a person).
    Ryan: I just don’t think now is a good time for that.
    Me: If you don’t want to, that’s your choice. I just want you to know I care and I’m there for you. I feel sad tho and you used to find comfort in being with me.
    Ryan: I just can’t right now.

  28.  #28Brenda on July 5, 2010 at 7:37 pm


    You’re a good little goddess! 🙂 You were taking care of yourself! And maybe it’s okay once in a while to lean forward if that is what we need. 🙂

  29.  #29aprilshowers on July 5, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Hopefully this will make someone smile. I feel quite amused by it…

    I have a guy friend of 14 years. It’s always only been platonic, no romance, no “benefits”, not close friends.

    A few months ago, he was complaining about wanting to be married. He said his next girlfriend would be his wife. I laughed and said, “Oh, I don’t believe in boyfriends. Either a guy is my date or my fiance.” He immediately said he’d be adopting my philosophy too.

    I joked to myself that I had finally delivered my “no-boyfriend speech”, too bad it was to a friend.

    Now, two months later, he is pursuing me. He’s calling and he asked me out 2x in the last week. I don’t know how I feel about it. But, I’m leaning back. I never call or text. I let him pay. I let him pick the restaurant, etc. etc.

    I do feel tickled pink that his interest in me was peaked after I gave a speech that wasn’t intended for him! 🙂

  30.  #30Brenda on July 5, 2010 at 8:13 pm


    That’s cool! The tools working even when you weren’t trying to attract him! Are you interested in him?

  31.  #31aprilshowers on July 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Ummm…I’m undecided. He’s cute and smart and sexy. He just doesn’t do “it” for me at the moment. Maybe the chemistry will come. Lol. Thanks for asking.

  32.  #32Nikita on July 5, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I was watching the Bachelorette……and then the interview after with the previous bachelor and the girl he chose…they broke up….I noticed that she kept speaking over …..I’d say she leaned forwarding a big way in her communication style.

    Has anyone else been seeing this?

  33.  #33KDR on July 5, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Rori wrote: ” I’m noticing that I’m sort of waiting for you to say I love you. This feels really weird after being with you so long…”

    In my hypothetical, daydream scenario, my fear is that his response would be something along the lines of: “My, aren’t we being coy. Fishing for “I love you’s”? I expect an equal partnership where we don’t have to dance around a subject. Also, I’ve noticed that YOU never tell ME “I love you” unless I say it first. What’s up with that?”

    I would feel embarrassed and called out. I think I am projecting based on a past relationship with a man who claimed he hated the whole “feelings thing” with women. He talked about how he would be so much happier if women could be “logical and reasonable” like men are without being ruled by their “feelings”. Funny thing though (he would never admit this even when caught red-faced (literally)) but he had lots of “feelings” and could be driven by them when (unintentionally) hurt by either me or his daughter.

  34.  #34lm on July 5, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    the guy i’m seeing wants me to text him every day after work and wants me to plan outings. he’s been very explicit about how he wants my ‘ideas’ and to know what i’m doing…it feels…not bad…but am i getting sucked into overfunctioning? what if it’s requested of you? he says that doing all the planning makes him tired. he seems very offended that i never text him first or check in with him on my own…i am VERY good at leaning back at this point and i think it freaks him out…

    any thoughts???

  35.  #35Daria on July 5, 2010 at 10:32 pm


    so guy I talk to, we have a mini exchange, not quite debate … due to his seeing my side and my curiousity about his side…

    about him not wanting to chase women because in the past he gave his everything and then the woman decided to leave

    ANYWAY i felt really good talking to him, said so, it felt fun and free

    so at the end i said i gotta go and hes like “ok call me”

    and i said ok… and i AM GOING TO!! cuz it doesn’t feel bad

    ok heres the SCRIPTING THING

    usually in the past here I would get the thought uhoh!!! now he’s gonna think im weird and get turned off and like i have weird “rules” and am all walled up and stuff

    I would feel my heart sinking

    to say “ohhh actually i don’t like calling guys, id feel better to get calls… blah”

    i liek saying it when it feels natural, but not when it feels easy and convenient for me to call him

    i feel CURIOUS!!! this experiment is wonderous

  36.  #36Daria on July 5, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    HAHA – Im and I are asking basically the same questions!

  37.  #37Daria on July 5, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    I would feel turned off that “it makes him tired” and I told the dude I was talking to that it felt turn offy that he said “it’s not gonna be one way”

    I wish Rori would re-address this… …. …

  38.  #38Daria on July 5, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    ok… what about this… i talked to this guy, i was complaining/telling him i feel sad about not having money… he was telling me how for some women its easy for people to give them money eh blah anyway

    we were gonna meet up, he had suggested it and i wanted to and i was gonna drive across the bridge, like 10/15 min away, this was my suggestion, it was good for me,

    anyway i felt kinda low on funds right now, and im low on gas, so i asked him could he come here, and he said no, cuz he doesnt have his license or insurance

    so i said ok,

    but i felt weird about paying all the last money i have on gas, so i texted him that i feel bad saying it but i dont want to feel bad later… and that i need money for gas, what does he think?

    and he called me and hes like you texted me, and im like yeah, do you think you can help me with gas, and hes like, oh i don’t really have it like that (my first thought was he doesnt WANT to help me, especially due to the conversation we were having earlier) and im like oh i guess we arent gonna be meeting then, hes like oh. ok. umm well ill call u or actually call me or text me like tonite or tomorrow or whenever you want

    and i felt bad, like hes now backing away , i mean from our conversations he doesnt seem like hes a ‘traditional dater’ type but a lot of men i seem to meet and feel good with aren’t… and in my experiment im gonna talk to them as long as it feels good, because i diddnt like the sitting at home spiel, and i feel like im feeling like im having a fun life when im out meeting with people and even though i know it happens for some people “traditional style ” dating and its happend for me, i dont want to fixate it like having an agenda which is what i felt like i was having before, id rather have a bunch of men friends to meet with and feel like im having a full and fun social life and meet more men

    writing this something came to me that i can choose to say, well i dont want to date men who arent into “traditional dating” but i do feel curious about you and i would like to meet u and hang out

    that feels good although im thinking it may be a mixed message…

    i feel confused now


    anyway i felt so bad…

    i texted him like 5 min after… ouch that felt bad… i feel like crying

    and then cried in the car

    i feel good now tho

  39.  #39Ann on July 5, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Rori thanks for sharing. It helps me to know sometimes you might have to back up & redo. Thank you for walking the walk.

  40.  #40Daria on July 5, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    he wrote:

    my bad, im sorry to hear that, its kinda cute tho, but i told you from the beginning im the wrong person for donations hopefully thats not a turn off

    i just wrote this:

    Thanks. Hehe. I fl kina weird talkn abt donations but yes i dnt want a man whos not generous. Esp wen i need gas. I fl kina mad. Wat u think?

  41.  #41dorothea on July 5, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    nikita, i watched it. and she does “undermine him,” which triggers him, which triggers her. she doesn’t realize that problem solving furniture arranging for him or with him without his asking does emasculate him. vienna needs rori. bad.

    i feel so bad for vienna. i really really feel awful for her. jake came out of that interview looking like a first class narcissist. and vienna looked like a bit of a psycho but i really feel for her.

  42.  #42mary on July 6, 2010 at 12:08 am

    ummm… daria!


    “usually in the past here I would get the thought uhoh!!! now he’s gonna think im weird and get turned off and like i have weird “rules” and am all walled up and stuff. I would feel my heart sinking”

    rules/tools are just guidelines, after all.

  43.  #43mary on July 6, 2010 at 12:08 am


  44.  #44Daria on July 6, 2010 at 1:03 am

    mary – i missed you!!!

    i feel confused about what you’re talking about… i feel tightened up and have the thoughts of a guy thinking im all “rulY” and “rigid” … and i feel uncomfortable thinking of myself that way…

    ohh… maybe i feel triggered cuz as a kid sometimes i got accused of being too much of a stickler to rules, etc. and now i get triggered by that

    i love my feelings

  45.  #45Tina on July 6, 2010 at 1:39 am

    I read Rori’s post, I thought how cute is that.

  46.  #46mary on July 6, 2010 at 1:46 am

    daria, i missed you, too.

    i felt sort of ashamed sometimes reading about your triggers when i would deviate from the rules… as in offer to pay.

    and the tools are amazing.

    but it seems to me that there are always situations that call for those gut instincts, like when you said it felt natural to you to call the guy. i felt validated when i read that.

    sometimes the thing that goes against the tool is the thing that works, you know? it takes being there.

  47.  #47mary on July 6, 2010 at 1:49 am

    a guy has quit being in touch with me and i wondered if it was because i didn’t offer to pay for his meal last time we were together. i paid for mine, but i didn’t offer to pay for his because i was just thinking so much at the time, and couldn’t act quickly enough, and i didn’t want to offend him. he offered to pay, but he’s paid before many times. and it seemed like my turn. and i didn’t do it. usually i would, but he’s so intelligent! so i was engrossed in thinking about what he was thinking! and it was the time to do it. my instinct tells me that. and he quit calling. and i miss him.

  48.  #48mary on July 6, 2010 at 1:51 am

    oh, Brenda.

    i felt so so sad reading about the exchange with Ryan. i feel so hopeful that you’ll take all the memories and everything that says Ryan to you and find a place to store them. just not look at them for a while. go and date other guys! then maybe look again when you have more perspective. and more choices. maybe you’ll see him differently then?

  49.  #49mary on July 6, 2010 at 1:53 am

    sasha J,

    your comment captivated me. and i felt so close to you when you were reaching out to your sister. i don’t have a sister, but it was such a wonderful gesture.

    and working through the emotions that always happen to you, and trying to do something DIFFERENT! wow. i feel inspired!

  50.  #50mary on July 6, 2010 at 2:03 am

    another guy is taking himself out.

    he just cannot stand it that i’m dating other guys. it doesn’t seem natural to him. he sees me online and gets terribly upset about it.

    i’m on my course, because it makes sense to me to date more than one guy, as i’m taking myself seriously, and my goal of getting married seriously, so it feels like power when he’s leaving.

    for some reason.

    i don’t know why it feels like that, but it does. maybe it’s because i’m focusing on what I want? which is to make a good decision about a future marriage partner? i think that’s really legitimate. so it’s good to practice, to date many people to figure out where things fit… etc.


  51.  #51mary on July 6, 2010 at 2:15 am

    unlike the way Rori described how a relationship works, here’s how it worked with this guy:


    “”Real relationships are simple and straightforward.”~Rori

    This has been anything but simple, but we have been very straightforward.

    “You meet a man, he calls, you return calls, he texts, you text back, you spend time together, then more time together” ~Rori

    yes, we did that.

    “it’s easy, it’s fun, he’s leaning in and obviously, clearly crazy about you, and a good guy to boot. simple” ~Rori

    okay. so far, so good.

    “You just keep on spending time together, you talk about what you each want, you make sure you’re on the same page about the important things and negotiate the rest, and THAT’S a relationship!” ~Rori

    yes, we did that. and then he just started getting freaked out by the fact that i was still dating other guys, and still had my profile online.

    “No drama. No insecurities or craziness that you cannot TALK about! No back and forth, and no games.” ~Rori

    oh! the DRAMA. every time we got together it was drama!

    oh! the insecurities! every time we got together he talked about the fact that he couldn’t be himself, he couldn’t express himself, he didn’t know where he stood, it wasn’t natural for him, etc., etc., for me to date other men…

    oh! there was no back and forth. there was just him, talking, and talking, and talking about it.

    oh! he accused me of playing games. he accused me of being selfish. he accused me of needing attention from men. he accused me of playing with his emotions.

    i think i feel relieved that he’s taking himself out.

    i feel guilty, too. in a weird way because there are shades of me that know i could have kept him if i’d done what he wanted.

    but i feel powerful and alive to know that i’m carrying forward with my plan, and my plan is to put my siren self out there so my man can find me.

    what happened here, in siren language? i was being the siren. he was swimming to shore. but he started drowning when he thought of the other men he might be swimming faster, that i might like better, who knows?

    the sad thing is that i really, really liked him…

  52.  #52Daria on July 6, 2010 at 2:43 am

    Eeck i feel defensive. I don’t think I’m not doing the tools. I think my understanding of the tools has elevated. I switched the underwear drawer. I’m doing tools all the time, tools of feeling feminine, feeling my feelings, crying, allowing myself to feel, sharign myself … like the pages of an open book… i feel opened and brite with that image

    im sharing me me me and being CURIOUS… so curious, that im having great conversation, less silence silence, but so much curiosity from me real honest type too, and sharing what i dont want, and my curiosity is so real, i don’t mind if what he says is different, im jsut curious, about him what he thinks

    i “GET” it on another level. what do you think? what do you, human man, think? not just “signed off and sealed feeling message insert ‘what do you think’ here”

    but really caring WHAT HE THINKS. I’m getting the “what do you think?” part. its a real question, out of curiosity, finding out, its about the sharing each other, don’t have to be the same, but on the important parts agree, negotiate the rest… im GETTING this on a new level

    being relaxed about driving and stuff has now led to invitation out to dinner and movie, etc…

    just so much more relaxed. they’ll step up if they want to. i’ll drive to where i want to. i won’t if i don’t want to.

    didn’t drive to dude who didn’t have gas money to me. didn’t feel good. i’m going out for me. i’m in tune with me. i call people for me, i feel inspired to connect.

    its different people each time, not the same man over and over

    and oooooh

    i feel triggered with this one man, i did have a crush on him, and felt like kinda insecure, i didn’t feel seen by him

    well the other nite he did finally rub on me and get my number

    but when he called me he asked me to kick it and he didnt call back,

    i called him the next day, my girl was wanting to kick it in a group… and i did feel a lil weird about calling him not quite the inspired feeling….


    he never called back and i feel icky now, i feel blah

    i feel unattractive not good enuf

    reminds me of this other man, who liked me at first, but then didn’t

    am i not feminine enuf for them? am i too masculine? do i make too many jokes and tease them too much?

    i feel insecure

    am i too boyish


    i love my feelings and my insecurity

    i do NOT like feeling this way


    it makes my nani squeeze this way that doesnt feel all good

    i love my feelings i love my nani

    i love my squeezy thigh

    i love my disappointment

    i love my jumpy heart

    i love me

    i am Freya the Goddess

    my hips and tits are voluptous milky skin and they flow and ride

    i am silky and creamy deliciousness


    i can add my lips

    i haven’t been noticing my lips

    along with my hips and my tits on the top are my lips

    when i walk i notice these parts of me, tingle i am the Goddess

    i THINK now… quck what goddess does he like? i’ll be that goddess for him… and now i’ve lost myself again

    i feel uncomfortable to be Freya, and not be paid attention to… i feel tensed and I feel quicken blooded and alert… i’m not feeling relaxed, tho i’m feeling turned on…

    i feel afraid now

    i don’t like this feeling of not being paid attention to

    i am craving

    i love my craving

    i love feeling my craving

    i love being Freya, and cravign, and feeling disappointment, i love my disappointed feeling… and all the feelings I as Freya feel, the way they tingle and turn my blood different colors, bubbly blue

  53.  #53Daria on July 6, 2010 at 2:58 am

    i gave up on not calling men. i gave up on rules. i don’t need to not call men.

    i’m already. loving myself. on my side first. knowing what i want. feeling my feelings.

    Thank you Rori. Thank you Daria.

    i dont call men when i dont feel comfortable calling men. i dont suck dick when i dont want to – this i never did – ha!

    i dont drive when i dont want to.

    so i feel free to do it when i want to do it.

    i feel a lil fear tho. what if they’re not attracted? what if I freely do me, and feel free, and share and share myself… and men are not going to fall for me?

    what if they’ll just see me as a great great buddy a really smart girl, a very attractive girl, but not the one they want to be with?


    i feel weird and a lil sad thinking of that. yeah. ah… that feeling. i felt it strong the other nite on the phone with dman.


    i don’t like not feeling wanted. i don’t like not being treated well. that doesn’t feel good.

    im an open book

    i feel afraid i love my fear.

    i am in love with me tho. no matter what. the’ll always be one cool ass person in love with me… and that’s me. hehe

    now i feel good. now i feel like smiling. and i feel a lil fear … hi lil fear i love you… i feel attractive with my lil fear

    what if my happyness makes me look like a kid monkey instead of a flowy soft moving goddess?

    happyiness i have associated with childhood, with bouncing around and being silly, i feel afraid… is that feminine?

    it feels different, than the deep quiet mysterious sensual feeling of far away eyes and flwoing riding hips tits and lips


    am i safe being monkey self?

    i feel afraid

    i feel happy monkey self… is happy monkey self sexy?


    just cute

    not sexy

    i feel afraid

    not attractive?

    cute monkey goddess

    i am cute monkey goddess

    and i am sensual sexual irresistible

    in my innocence

    in my threwn thrown swinging bodyparts

    not very ladylike

    more monkeylike


    am i sexy clumsy

    ohh i feel fear

    i love my fear

    i love my clumsy

    i love my sexy

    i love my shadows and my separations

    so different?

    all at once

    one at a time



    i feel mysterious deep light innocent vulnerable approachable unreachable safe dangerous volatile calm crazy sane steady rockin strong weak desperate numb wise foolish goddess powerless baby old icky lovely nasty delicious

  54.  #54Daria on July 6, 2010 at 3:23 am

    talk blog or i shall slap you

    i didnt slap my girl who gets rude when shes drunk but our other drunk girl did when i was not there

  55.  #55Daria on July 6, 2010 at 3:49 am

    blah lol. they’re more lovable when im open now, im not judging them for the way they express their sexuality

  56.  #56Daria on July 6, 2010 at 4:01 am

    i feel great!

  57.  #57Jennifer on July 6, 2010 at 5:17 am

    I’m feeling kinda mad
    I emailed military communications guy. Yeah it was cause I Wanted him to email me back but he isn’t and now I feel annoyed.
    I told him it felt good to walk with him and eat ice cream. I said I also felt good kissing him.
    GRRR, I want acknowledgement…………..I WANT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT GOD DAMMIT!!!!
    I feel triggered, ya think?
    Eventually I will learn to stop leaning forward.

  58.  #58lm on July 6, 2010 at 7:27 am

    yeah, it makes me feel sort of….blech.

    he likes eating dinner together every night, and he has asked that i give him a call to let him know what i’m up to after work…but i don’t always feel like doing it, so i don’t. i feel some inner resistance. i think i am actually afraid he’ll be angry with me. he has a bit of a temper. i guess that’s a red flag…

    wow…writing this is really opening up the deeper issues for me.

  59.  #59Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 7:33 am

    Echo Jennifer – can you just believe this crap????
    I have a little email exchange going with a cute guy just a bit north of the city I live in – like a 30 min drive straight up the highway and in the heart of great golf country. So we want to meet. Then this morning, after I gave him lots of options that fit my travel/work schedule, I get this!!!

    “Where do you live in the city? It could be too far for a reasonable relationship”

    Like WTF! does that ever trigger me – I feel so judged and like I have to fit some frigging check-list – so this is what I wrote back. Then I went for a little 3K run (even though we are having a heat alert) and I felt really good about my message and he can go suck raw eggs. I don’t think I want to meet him – I know he has picked up the message but I haven’t heard back – don’t think he is going to step up. Anway, I’m a diva! here is what I wrote:

    Wow I am feeling surprised and at a complete loss for words… I am all about feeling
    wonderfully alive and creating fantastic energy with a terrific guy – maybe that is you; I
    don’t like the feeling of being an item on a check list, what is your take?

  60.  #60Nikita on July 6, 2010 at 7:53 am


    I felt the same way….if she leaned back, a lot would shift.
    “this is a classic example of a woman acting like a man” said my current LI…then he commented she was too outspoken. That was his perspective on their relationship.

  61.  #61dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 8:05 am

    they trigger each other so bad. i feel disappointed to see jake so cold to her tho. viena seriously just wants him to care about her feelings, and he refuses. he seems a little toxic

  62.  #62Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 8:31 am


    Thanks for your feedback! I know I need to walk away from Ryan. I just gotta do it. I’ve been trying to develop interest in other men with limited success. I guess I am going to get out more and be places where I wanna meet men.

    In the meantime, I got an email from a man on Match. His introduction was nice but then he started giving me one-line emails to ask for my personal email. I gave it to him, and I get yet another one-line email to verify if this is the correct email. Is that normal, acceptable behavior? I feel uncomfortable like why doesn’t he just write me? I mean, all you have to do is hit reply on your personal email and Match is set up to automatically route emails to your personal email without you having to give your real email. Now I’m starting to feel creeped out and starting to wish I had just told him to go that route.

  63.  #63Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 8:32 am


    I felt really icky reading your back and forth with Ryan.

    It sounds to me like you keep saying you only want friends, but then you treat him like you want more. If you really only wanted friendship, you would not be having the feelings you are having, and you would not be needing validation.

    This is not a critisism, I am just working on some intellectual honesty on my end too these days. And I realized with text guy two things: A. I can’t be messing around in things where if I only had less expectations it would be ok and B. I need attention and affection. I always thought I could just be the cool girl who needs nothing. Well, I need stuff, and my self esteem takes a dive if I don’t get it. I can’t make someone give it to me, but I can stay away from people where my self esteem is in jeaopardy.

    Your exchange felt to me like you were trying to control him, not to really get an answer.

    I am curious, is scitzofrenia (oop, spelling) ever curable?


  64.  #64Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 8:34 am


    Stop looking for reasons not to like other men. Yes, the match behavior is acceptable.

  65.  #65Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 8:36 am


    I am feeling hopeful that you can finally put Ryan to bed in your head and move on.

    You will find what you are looking for.

  66.  #66dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 8:37 am

    yeah brenda i felt awful seeing you practically beg ryan to give you what you want when he is clearly saying no.

    taking no for an answer is a rori tool. it’s a hard one.

  67.  #67Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 8:46 am

    Tallgirl and Dorothea,

    Thanks for your feedback! I smiled when you said “put Ryan to bed in your head”! LOL! I wish!

    Yeah, I know there’s something wrong there. I know what you said is right. Yet I can’t stop thinking about him. There’s something special about him I can’t let go. There are beautiful parts of him that are so opposite of the view you got of him here. If you had seen him in action last year, you would have never guessed it was the same guy!

    That’s the guy I am talking to. I will let go cuz I have to. But I feel embarrassed that I posted this dialogue. I dreamed about him last night that we were in the same class and had to see each other every day. I know he has the right to say no.

    Schizophrenia is curable, yes. Most psychologists and psychiatrists would tell you no, you can only treat it by medication. But if you are interested in knowing more, you can check out the website,

  68.  #68Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 8:49 am

    HELP – I really want to send this to family guy – whom after 4 wonderful dates, I haven’t heard from for 4 weeks – I drafted this at 2 in the morning because I couldn’t sleep – I really want to send this!!!:

    Family Guy – Thank you.

    When I met you, I was so surprised – how quickly, I felt safe and relaxed; so wonderful. I hadn’t really thought about wanting anything more than the pure delight of being able to be present and enjoying the moments in the precious time we had together. I never imagined I would be able to balance work, being a mom and stay so nicely centred on being with you. And then feeling the gentle caress of your lips and warm breath on the back of my neck felt more life-infusing than the early morning air thick with the scent of clover and wild roses as I make my way through the ravine – just so lovely. Who knew the tenderness of your touch would ignite such passion? I felt all glowing for days… And now I feel such sadness wrapping around all of my insides squeezing hot tears ready to flow. I am feeling bewildered and confused and I don’t like not feeling wanted. Before I let you go, I do want to thank you because I learned something really important from you – I had no idea it was possible to have felt so wonderful – now I know.

  69.  #69lm on July 6, 2010 at 9:00 am

    daria – men asking us to row…it must be in the air!

    i am going to use this situation as practice for dealing with anger. i have always always always been afraid of anger (others’ and mine). my dad always said the scariest thing to him was an angry woman, and i think that stuck with me. he was a very angry man himself…

    we had a good discussion last night. we have been separated for the past week, taking a break because we have been fighting a lot. he asked to see me for 6 of the 7 days. i felt ok going to his house to talk (i wanted to go for a walk, meet halfway, but it was raining and there was a fire alarm going off at my place). i was very honest and told him that i don’t think he loves me in the forever way. sometimes i just don’t. he used to say it on his own and lately its been…weird, sort of off. he said he loves me but it gets overshadowed by his anger when we fight.

    i am seeing that it’s the anger and the blame that is bothering me, not the ‘text me after work’ stuff. ha.

    i’m going to go back and look at the anger posts again!

  70.  #70dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 9:00 am

    brenda i feel so glad you posted the convo with him. please dont be embarassed. we just want to help of course!

  71.  #71Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 9:06 am


    What you wrote is so beautiful! I think it could only have positive results. What do you have to lose?


    Thank you! Yes, I am still in love with him. But I am doing my best to separate my feelings from him as a human being. I want to support him. And, when you have schizophrenia, few people get close to you, because you’re scary. I read the autobiography of the man in the website I referenced above about his experience with schizophrenia for 25 years. I just so want to see him free! I am trying to let go, but it’s so hard. He has such beautiful potential. I am just trying to relate to him as a friend, even tho I still have feelings for him. He taught me so much about myself and psychology. He can be so utterly kind and thoughtful. I just see him as getting more and more lost.

  72.  #72Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 9:20 am


    While I love what you wrote, it feels like leaning forward in a big way to me (how is that for another opposite perspective). Can you use it as closure?

    This man did not contact you because he is not interested, so please do not make excuses for him.


    This man is not acting into you, and you can find someone who can.

    The lesson to learn might be that you can feel that way. Now find someone who can do that on a regular basis.

  73.  #73Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 9:22 am


    Don’t be embarressed. Sometimes you have to push something to closure. Rori says you don’t, and for some people that works, but for others, it is needed.

    So do what you need to do to unattach from Ryan. Be at peace with your truth, even if it hurts.

    You want more than he can give, so stay away from him and focus on yourself and your self esteem.

  74.  #74Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 9:25 am


    How to get closure, without “closure”

    Imagine you and then man. Imagine the energy ties between you. Maybe you are facing each other, maybe he is facing away, maybe only you have energy reaching to him, and he none to you, all are correct.

    Now take a scissor (maybe small, maybe the size of a mountain). Now cut the ties. See him fly away.

    I use this when I start obsessing over someone who is not longer in my life. I focus on cutting the ties. Not on coulda shoulda woulda.

    As time goes on, there are less ties, and he is no longer tied to you.

    Hope this helps!

  75.  #75Siena on July 6, 2010 at 9:31 am

    wow, I’m feeling really triggered at the different situations I’m seeing on the board today!

    Daria, you are a rockstar, no doubt about it. And you can go to men, call them, do what feels good. You’ve got it down…

    But why do you want to? Wouldn’t it feel better to hang out with guys who treat you like the goddess you are?

    I feel bad saying this because I don’t want to make you feel bad, but I wonder if you don’t think you’re good enough for really great guys?

    The reason I ask is because we attract what we believe. I see you attracting guys who are hot and attractive, but who don’t value you the way you deserve to be valued!

    This is my own trigger, because I do it too. I love you and don’t want to see you drive to men because you’re too good for that! Not that you can’t do it and still feel good… you totally can. But those guys don’t deserve that!!!

  76.  #76dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 9:32 am

    he says he feels he can’t do it now. maybe he is taking healing into his own hands and wants space. who knows…

  77.  #77Siena on July 6, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Brenda, I love you too and I hear you saying how awesome Ryan is. You know what? He’s not more awesome than you. And as a boyfriend, he’s no good.

    He broke your heart, which disqualifies him. If for no other reason than he’s not smart enough to keep an incredible woman around. Who wants a dumb guy?

    The Match thing (like TG said) is totally okay. As you know, CDing is not about finding the guy, it’s therapy. So basically, however these guys want to roll (as long as it doesn’t hurt you) is A-OK. You’re just there to be healed, not to find Mr. Wonderful. If he shows up, that’s an awesome bonus!

  78.  #78Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Tallgirl, #72 and 73 are tremendously helpful!

    Thank you for being so gentle with me. Yes, I need closure, badly.

  79.  #79Siena on July 6, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Mary, re #50, I feel sad.

    On one hand, there’s the no girlfriend thing. But on the other hand, there’s the total openness and vulnerability that I want to exude to make a man feel totally safe, totally attracted, and like he can be himself 100% with me.

    It feels really scary to be completely open, available and vulnerable with a guy who is only a date, but I feel encouraged because it makes sense that it’s the only way to get to commitment. And it’s good for me to be that way with everyone I meet, not just the dates.

    I feel hopeful that if he feels 100% safe and attracted, when we get to the “no girlfriend” speech will be short-lived, he’ll understand that it’s not a rejection of him but rather me taking really good care of myself, and it will bring him to a favorable decision about me and us quickly.

    It’s not brinkmanship. It’s taking care of myself so that I can be the best partner that I am able.

  80.  #80Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 9:47 am


    Thank you! That makes total sense. Now I need to cut the ties and watch him fly away. He is disqualified. I know that, which is why I am only seeking friendship. But my heart doesn’t know that. My heart keeps wanting back the beautiful days we spent cuddling, having pillow talk, walking on the beach, and, yeah, playing sexually.

    I don’t like it when beautiful, happy things end.

  81.  #81Gigi on July 6, 2010 at 9:53 am


    It feels like you are so good about seeing the beauty and potential in men. What if you could really see and feel that in yourself. I guess that would be like Rori saying how important it is for us to fall in love with ourselves. You deserve giving yourself the love and compassion that you are trying to give to Ryan.

    I feel like I have a new understanding on the importance in loving oneself (a good message for me!) Thank-you for that!

  82.  #82Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 9:54 am


    Here are some of my feelings from reading your recent comments…I felt really happy you are getting out there and not sitting home lonely and bored. I like it that you are experimenting and discovering yourself rapidly!

    I felt really yucky about asking for gas money to come to him. It’s a totally different vibe than asking a man to pick you up. A first class lady would never ask for gas money. A first class lady would simply expect to be picked up.

    About feeling the monkey side of your goddess, I can relate, cuz I tend to be too much like one of the guys when I get nervous and happy. I joke around, and I like to feel accepted. I am probably not graceful at those times.

    I’ve studied graceful women who I want to emulate. They move slowly with confidence. You could experiment with pretending you are an elegant, revered queen while you are with those men. You could hold your head high, move slowly, and be slow and deliberate in your speech. That’s what I try to do. I picture myself in a beautiful flowing gown, even if I’m in pants and a shirt. I practice literally leaning back and listening far more than speaking.

    I feel so good about cheering you on cuz it sounds like you are having a fantastic time these days! I want to get out more, too!

  83.  #83Rosalie Hale on July 6, 2010 at 9:56 am

    I feel physically ill and my life is stuck. The man who left me, cut off all contact with me. Because he doesn’t even want to know that I’m alive. He has NPD and was just using me, although he was pressuring his “love” for me and plans for the future. When things were turning wrong, anytime I tried to contact him to talk, he was verbally abusive. Then he turned into physical violence.

    I have lost all my energy and I’m stuck. I gave him feeling messages but he got angrier only and kept repeating the same things. Like a mantra. He is so typical narcissist, he is convinced that I’m the devil who is ruining his life and the only way he can keep his peaceful life if he beats me anytime I go close. Oh, and he also kindly offered that I should shoot myself in the head. This was the same man, who was planning marriage, children etc. with me. He was leading me on all the time. Using me as a free prostitute. And now I’m a wreck. He knows it and doesn’t care, it just makes him feel more disgusted of me.

    Now he moved in a flat where we were to move in together. I’m very triggered and feeling ill ever since.

    Feeling message, opening up and Circular Dating don’t work for me. I tried CD and it brought disastrous results. The guy I last dated didn’t even get out of his car or invited me for a drink, etc. Of course I wasn’t pressuring the date any further, I said I have to go.

    I feel invisible without choices. Any powerful help or idea is welcomed.

  84.  #84Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 9:57 am


    Thank you! In my strong moments, I do give love to myself. Even tho part of me inside is broken and wounded, I believe the reason I am able to look past Ryan’s brokenness and care for him even tho he hurt me worse than any other human being is because a bigger part of me IS healed and loves myself. Cuz you can’t love others unless you love yourself.

    But then I come back to that rewrite of the serenity prayer which I am really into these days:

    God, please grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to see that one is me!

  85.  #85Siena on July 6, 2010 at 9:58 am


    “I don’t like it when beautiful, happy things end.”

    They only end to make room for MORE beautiful, happier things to come your way.

    Have you ever heard the saying, “the enemy of the best is the good”?

    Don’t hold on to the good – the best is just around the corner!

  86.  #86Gigi on July 6, 2010 at 10:08 am

    One way I am lovingly taking care of myself is to declutter my office, bedroom closet, linen closet and pantry. Those are places that most people don’t see. But, I see all the time. It is so about loving myself.

    I want to give that kind of focus on something to make myself feel good! And, it now makes more sense to me than ever! When focusing on someone else there is some sort of payback I’m hoping to get from them (just like this post where Rori talks about telling a guy you love them first.) I want to love and focus on myself! Then I think I’ll truly be less needy with men!

    Brenda-again I thank you for helping me to see myself my clearly!!!

  87.  #87Gigi on July 6, 2010 at 10:12 am


    Thanks for this post. The idea of wanting some sort of payback with certain actions and behaviors really resonates with me!

  88.  #88Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 10:50 am

    thank you Tall Girl – somehow I knew if I posted that note to Family Guy here, I would have the feedback I need to keep myself from leaning foward – almost flattened! Somehow writing all that down, not just once but three times, seems to have helped. And I find it a big relief to take the handwritten version, imagine him sitting across from me – and tearing it to shreds. Now if he contacts me three months from now, I can be surprised, lean back and start fresh.

    I go speed dating on Thursday evening….

    The cute guy from north of the city emailed me back and we won’t be seeing each other – he doesn’t want to drive in to meet me. I am really OK with that because I am feeling so proud of my feeling message – the lovely tone with which he responded.

  89.  #89Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Thanks, Siena!

    I still am struggling to let go of the good for the best. Should I send him a text as damage control and as closure?

    If so, what should it say?

  90.  #90Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 10:52 am


    I think the guy from the north of the city is really lame. He could be missing out on the most wonderful woman of his life all cuz he doesn’t want to drive a half hour. Wimp!

  91.  #91Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 10:57 am


    I really love what you are saying. And I love that you see the good in people… But….. Just to think about…..

    This might trigger you, but I am going to say it –
    Are you really as healed as you say? I know I am not.

    Otherwise, I would not have accepted the crumbs of text man. I would have asked him on date one or two what he was planning, and why he was back.

    I am doing a lot of healing work right now, and it is pretty clear that healthy healed people do not chase after unhealthy people (and your text stream is sadly chasing). In fact, healthy people do not even attract unhealthy people or accept them into their lives.

    I am really pushing back on your motives here. You want a Ryan that does not exist. My guess is he does not even exist for him, let alone for you.

    There is a point where looking for the best in someone is really just a lie about who they are, and what they are capable of.

    I really hope you can turn into yourself, and work on that. All that energy and thinking about him is a way to avoid feeling pain.

    Take a look at the inner bonding sight that Rori talks about. This is addiction to thought and talking. I do it for sure, and it is a distraction from healing.

    Whenever I think of text man, I think of the real text man – the one who turned off at our second date and did not kiss me, the one who invited me to a concert and never followed up, the one who was actually mean to me on our last date. Not the one who was nice to me for 2 seconds.

    Even though I want someone, I will not tolerate being with men who are not even as nice to me as I can be to myself. That is a self esteem killer. I owe it to myself first.

  92.  #92Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 11:03 am


    STOP IT. If you want to text him for damage control, you are out of control.

    What is done is done. Now, just let it be.

    He does not want to talk to you any more. Period. You need to heal yourself.

    All this damage control stuff is an avoidance of pain on your end. It is time for you to feel your pain. Feel it. That is is the only way out!

    That will feel really hard and uncomfortable, but you will be focused on you.

    Please please please, stop thinking about him, and work on cutting emotional ties to a man who is not there for you.

  93.  #93Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 11:10 am


    Whenever you think of him – try the following things:

    A. Think about the energy cutting. Literally change what you are thinking to that thought.

    B. Think of yourself as a child and tell that child that you are sorry he does not love you, and does not want to be there for you. Tell that child that while he is not there, and cannot be, you are.

    Just some stuff to think about.

  94.  #94Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Tallgirl , you have remarkable insight. I thought about the mirror in relation to Rori’s questions:
    “where do I not believe I am loved by myself..friends….”
    Such a powerful question – I seem to set myself up for rejection. I use being a solo single mom as an excuse; I seem to find men who are in more transition difficulty than I am (one had had a heart attach 6 weeks before I met him – he died and was brought back to life – talk about serious life transition issues!; one had been dumped after he brought up her 3 boys and got them started in life – he was in such pain when we met!; and now this one – with a severely disabled child who will have to have his ex-wife in his life forever) So what is the deal here? Why am I so afraid of love and intimacy that I find all manner of “others” being unavailable – is it not really me who is so unavailable? Is it not I who has created a barrier to loving and being loved?
    Shit, I don’t even know what it feels like to love myself.
    Maybe someone could help me understand what that is….

  95.  #95lm on July 6, 2010 at 11:48 am

    i second tall girl’s comments about inner bonding. it’s a pretty amazing process.

  96.  #96Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 11:59 am


    I am doing a 90 day experiment in self love. It includes having an cranial sacral person work on my energy, meditation and visualization. Tears means it is working.

    A. Every day in the mirror, I say that I love myself and three things that I am loving about myself. The first three days, I cried getting it out at all, and I still have a hard time thinking of three things.

    B. Meditation – “I love me and accept me, and it is ok to be who I am”. Pretty hokey Stuart Smally stuff, but I do it 20 minutes on my morning commute and I tell my inner child I am sorry that: my parents did not love her, that I abondoned her, that the men I liked did not like me back. It usually has some tears.

    C. Visualization – I imagine cutting ties with text man (long story and done the first time), but I still have some stuff to clear there. Then I imagine my husband and what a healthy and caring realtionship looks like. I told him he needed to be more emphatic next time I try to take up with someone who is not him. I should only be dating someone that when I see him in my mind and I say – “Is he you?” That he can say back to me “Maybe”. If the answer is no, then the guy gets the heave ho. I let text man in when I knew he was not my husband. I should not be messing around with that in the name of “practice”. Practice for what? Sheesh.

  97.  #97Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Tallgirl – this is so wonderful and timely for me as my kids are away at camp for the month of July – except I have my daughter home for a few days in the middle. Perfect time for me to do this reflection as well. My kids are post traumatic stress; reactive attachment disordered…bla bla bla. So to create a safe environment for them (after the adoptive father went off the deep end and came clean that he was gay on top of it all and he has no access bla bla bla) I had to go get help. I am aware of my own attachment issues, but struggled for the longest time with compassion, forgiveness, self-care and self love. Maybe my awareness has reached the level that I can now pay attention – fearlessly. Like what is with this overwhelming fear anyway????

    how long into the 90 days are you?
    and if I may be so bold, what age category would you fall within?
    and, have you looked at Isha Judd’s website?

  98.  #98Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 12:28 pm


    Thank you very much for your candor. Your comments really help me and I will meditate on what you said.

  99.  #99Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 12:52 pm


    I had to have someone who had condor with me to get to the real place. Does that mean I don’t think about Text Man and others that I have dated – of course not?

    Time to get real with what Ryan really is and what your relationship really is, which is not much right now (not speaking for the past).

    But what I realized is that all that energy is a way of numbing myself. If I could just figure out exactly what I did or what i should have said, then he would have been there.

    The bottom line is he is not there because he is not CAPABLE of being there (most likely for any woman, but definately not for me), and does not want to be there. To continue to chase that is much worse for my self esteem than feeling the pain of rejection and abondonment, and realizing, the worst part is that: I HAVE ABANDONNED MYSELF.

    I abandonned myself by agreeing to date someone with no future, when I want a future. I abandonned myself when I spent time with him when my gut was telling me – get the heck out of here. I abandonned myself when I saw him disconnect on the second date and not kiss me and I felt really icky about it.

    Was he a total jerk? No, he acted jerk like, but that was the best he could do. And while it hurts like heck, I feel sorry for him because he will continue to have short relationships, and I will find my husband, or I will continue the nice life I have.

    The only time I did not abandon myself was when I asked him where he was at, he told me, and I walked away. Even if he was going to walk away, I know I walked away, and he knows not to call me anymore.

    I won’t be a back up girl.

    You may want to look at – I have gotten real with with myself.

  100.  #100dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    There is a boy I run into from time to time and I feel obsessed and nervous about him. I am even dreaming about him. I feel like a creepy stalker. I want my energy back. It’s certainly not going to attract him, that’s for sure.

  101.  #101Jeannette on July 6, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Girls, I think I am starting to get paranoid about not wanting to lean forward. Today it’s like 94 degrees out and my new boyfriend does not have air conditioning at his place. He also suffered a heart attack 3 years ago (silent). I have air over here…..should I call him and ask if he wants to sit over here? He is a grown boy and he could go out to a restaurant or mall or somewhere to get cool. I don’t want it to look like I am taking care of him. Please answer as soon as you can so I know what is practical not paranoid!!

  102.  #102Daria on July 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Brenda – hmm I feel angry. I mentioned that I do actually practice moving like freya the goddess around men. I am now interested in loving my monkey goddess as well. Ohhh just writing this I got the thought that when I embrace her others will too. I feel very angry like trigger angry to be told this. I’m imagining like I’ve Bern speaking to someone and then they say. Ohhh just do this- repeat thing u did already that u talked abt. Oooh. I don’t like to feel unheard. Blah . I feel mad.

    Ps- asking for gas money did not feel ungoddessy . It was my truth in the moment. I was low on gas and I shared that and that I need help. I feel really happy with sharing that. I stand behind my choice.

    Nothing I do is ungoddessy.

    I am nota fan of the word.

  103.  #103Tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 1:20 pm


    Don’t think you could lose by not asking, or by asking. Go with whatever you want to do.

    Just make sure you have no expectations about how he stays or how long….

  104.  #104Daria on July 6, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Jeanette- if he could go to the mall then it’s unnecessary. If he calls or texts then I would tell him I feel worried about about him in the heat while I’m in air conditioning…

    In my new rockstarry experiment… If I want him to come over out the heat I would text him. I don’t want u in the heat and I miss u. Come over! Eat do u think?

    But only after I checked w me how I would feel is it feel like it will happen… Will I be cool if it doesn’t.

  105.  #105Jeannette on July 6, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    I think I will wait a little here….see what happens. When I talk with him, probably tonight….I will ask him if he needs to sit over here and out of the heat…after he calls ME….I have taken care of men and sometimes it’s time to compromise, know what I mean?

  106.  #106Daria on July 6, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    yay Jeannette!!! i feel happy

  107.  #107Jeannette on July 6, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Daria, thanks kiddo….we need to be cheerleaders to one another don’t we!

  108.  #108dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    I feel nauseous and overwhelmed. Things got really intense with LI and then when there is a problem, it feels devastating. I re-iterated the no girlfriend thing. Told him I wanted more formality in our courtship. I owned up to wanting to act like a wife and be controlling of him to avoid feeling disappointed if he doesn’t step up on his own. I was rowing. He wasn’t turned off by this at all but it felt bad to me.

    He is young, younger than I am, and has stepped up quite a bit to be the man in our relationship. But he has more stepping up to do. He has to learn on his own. I am dropping it like a ball and chain. He can pick it up if he wants.

    I feel guilty. He was eager to let me know that he is okay with me wanting to keep my options open, and just keep dating him until there’s a ring on my finger. I feel like he loves me so much already that I should be a dutiful girlfriend planning our life together and keeping us on track.

    NO. NO NO NO. I don’t want to be a pretend wife. I don’t want to be a girlfriend. I want to feel free and open until there is a ring on my finger and I feel good about it.

    And I don’t want to have freaking couple-like fights before we’re at that point. I believe three little words of I Love You really can fix a lot of relationship problems. And I don’t want to be there yet without the logistics and a plan figured out.

    I am struggling.

    I am going to be circular dating. I was very clear with him that I will be doing that. I love my LI but I don’t want to undermine my bridge to happily ever after.

    In other news, I have been dealing with a volatile personality with some work related…it unnecessarily took up half my day and I feel irritated, so I hope the investment of my time and energy was worth it.

    Thank you sirens for letting me vent. whew. i feel better.

  109.  #109aprilshowers on July 6, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Great quote:
    “I realized that a drop of femininity in a whirlwind of masculinity is the most powerful thing ever. And that’s when it really became clear to me: Everything that’s vulnerable is what makes me beautiful.”

    -Jada Pinkett Smith

    Ha! Think Jada is a Rori follower too? 🙂

  110.  #110Jennifer on July 6, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Still no reply email from military communications guy.
    Now I feel kinda embarrassed cause I emailed him.
    Maybe he doesn’t like me so much like I thought.
    Hmmm……this feels sinking in my chest. It feels hanging my head. It does not feel rockstar ish.
    This sucks.

  111.  #111aprilshowers on July 6, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    “I don’t want to be a pretend wife.” -Dorothea

    Wow! Me likey! I may have to steal that one. Good for you! I know you really care about your LI. At the same time, you are brave enough to keep your eye on your vision of love, marriage, and kids.

    That’s awesome, even if it feels awful right now.

  112.  #112dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    thank you, april showers! sometimes I think…what a slap in the face to my future husband, whoever he is, to act like a wife to just anyone who comes along to date me.

    it’s like the old school notion of saving your virginity for your husband. Well, I’m not going to do THAT, but it sure does feel important to save my wifeliness for actually, gee, being a wife.

  113.  #113Lizzie on July 6, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    You won’t beleive this! I just got a message from Family Guy! It is so sweet!!! He is out of town with his kids – just got organized and sent me a note.
    Thank you sirens for making me lean back and stay there.
    I am staying leaned back.
    I am feeling happy that I am looking after myself – with everyone’s help – thank you.
    I am going to continue to explore Rori’s questions and take the time I have this month to really do the work of inner exploration. I haven’t cried in years and feel it right in behind my eyes, the tightness in my throat and heaviness in my chest. I have been through hell and back these past few years and am pretty close to being out of marriage debt; lawyers are paid; taxes are paid; kids camps are paid; visa cards are paid; rent is caught up; my business is comming along; my kids are blossoming into wonderful people and we don’t see trauma reactions any more; I have started cooking again; I am knitting again; I am spending time with friends again; and I am incredibly happy to be spending time with myself for a few weeks – the tears of all the years of sadness, struggle, extreme stress, starting over, having no place to live, feeling like I have been in a tunnel of darkness for so long now I am the light! I can feel life comming back, I can feel beautiful, and it is so wonderful. I need to take a long time to build a new relationship – maybe it is family guy, maybe he is a preparation for better to come, who knows. Soon I will be ready. Thank you wonderful sirens – in our own insanity, we certainly help keep each other sane!

  114.  #114dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Lizzie, i DO believe it! haha. Nice job, girly

  115.  #115Nikita on July 6, 2010 at 3:53 pm


    jake seemed frozen to me. I felt pain coming from him while she was speaking. I noticed people calling him names but I can’t help but feel sad for him. She’s pulling and demanding such basic things and I believe it’s natural to desire kisses and all that she asked for but…. He looked frozen and trapped in ice; unable to give to her….I’m noticing inauthenticity when I hear her in her head; nitpicky and “storytelling”. I feel disappointed because she seemed so feminine before. I wonder if Jake feels the same way.

  116.  #116Nikita on July 6, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    What if she just said “I feel sad”. I feel helpless…..I feel frustrated….I’m curious what Jake thinks.”

    could the interview have turned into a reconciliation? Just musing I guess 🙂

  117.  #117dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Nikita, you are sooo right in my opinion. Viena has power to turn it around. She reminds me of my former self. But just because she lost her feminine way doesn’t mean she deserves such coldness from her man. I prefer men who respond well to feminine posturing and don’t respond like assholes when presented with behavior otherwise. This is why I believe he is a bit toxic. And she is in so much pain that she is lashing out in weird ways to avoid feeling her pain.

    I want to write her a letter and tell her about siren island. I want to give her a big hug.

  118.  #118Ann on July 6, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Today is my birthday and I feel like I recieved a unexpected gift from the universe via my FB wall. If you’ve read around here for awhile you’ll know and I’m paraphrasing here, Rori suggests we taking care of our own “stuff.” Meaning to me at least, not to worry about what a man(or anyone else) is thinking or doing etc… Feel my own thoughts, emotions, etc… Well the comment below really drove that home to me today.

    “There is a huge amount of freedom that comes to you when you take nothing personally.” Don Miguel Ruiz (It’s good to remember that someone else’s actions and words say more about them than they do about us because they own them. When we can remember that we are less likely to get our own feelings hurt. Besides, we have no control over what another says or does and keeping that in mind can be rather liberating.)”

    The part that really reasonates with me & I plan to keep in mind over the next year is below:

    “It’s good to remember that someone else’s actions and words say more about them than they do about us because they own them.”

    Now I’m going to read the post I haven’t read yet in these comments. Have a good day.

  119.  #119Siena on July 6, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    I feel sad. I just heard that an old friend from college passed away this afternoon. I’ve been reminiscing this week about how short life is, and this friend’s passing drove it home. I want to see #1CD, but he’s out of town. I’m not very close to my other CDs (there’s really only 1 other at this point anyway).

    I don’t want to struggle anymore with this. I feel tired of dating and want to have a family… Having a friend die reminds me that time passes and opportunities go away. I don’t want to miss the opportunities to realize the dreams I’ve had.

  120.  #120Sweetpea on July 6, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Wow ladies! It is so incredibly SIRENY on here today. I feel joy welling up in my heart! I feel overwhelmingly blessed to be able to read all that is going on with all of us & see the tremendous growth happening here!

    Lizzie – I feel so happy for you that a long journey from the depths has landed you on the road to loving yourself, feeling less stress & seeing wonderful & amazing things happen as a result. I don’t think I’ve experienced any greater feeling than working hard to do something I know may not be in my best interest & then almost immediately seeing the results of that hard work & knowing it was the right choice – the BEST choice.

    I’m so happy to hear all of the wonderful things happening on here – to feel this positive vibe! Things were a little tense here for awhile, now they seem to have turned a corner & it is so heartening to witness the benefits experienced from using the tools!

    Congratulations to all of us!!! Go Sirens!

  121.  #121Jeannette on July 6, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Girls, I have another question. My new boyfriend had a procedure done today where he had his stomach scoped because of a previous bleeding ulcer. I asked him to let me know how it went, replying to an email from him. We were sweethearts in high school and found ea other again. But we both agreed to take this relationship slow here. So should I call him tonight and ask him how the procedure went or wait to get a email from him or what? Just wondering!

  122.  #122Siena on July 6, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Jeanette, it depends on why you are emailing or calling him. If it’s just to offer him support without any agenda attached, then do so. If you’re trying to get something from him, then don’t.

    Personally, I would send an email or call because it would feel worse to me to not do anything at all.

    How would it feel to call or not call?

  123.  #123Siena on July 6, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    ugh! So I’m supposed to treat every man equally while I’m CDing. Today, I don’t want to talk to anyone except #1CD.

    I have a “man” pursuing me who was in high school when I was dating 5 year man. In fact, he was kind of like 5 year man’s son in that 5 year man supported him financially and emotionally while he was growing up because his dad wasn’t around.

    Now he’s in his young 20s, I know he’s always had a crush on me, and now he’s calling and emailing me.

    This kid was like my ex’s son! I don’t even want to deal with it! ugh!

  124.  #124Daria on July 6, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    who worked out today!

    me… my sex for the day … woo hoo


    now like 4 men want to see me or more… bout to go out and kik it

    theyre offering pot, money for gas, more money for gas and eating me out… lol

    not sure if ima take up all the offers but its nice to have them lol

  125.  #125Nikita on July 6, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Happy Birthday Ann :)))

  126.  #126Brenda on July 6, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Ry Guy

    I thought, prayed, felt, and processed, and then I discussed it with my counselor tonight. I really felt I needed closure with Ryan, and this is the best way I can find it.

    Here’s what I said to Ryan. I called him, and I got his voicemail, so that’s where it landed, and I couldn’t help but cry as I read it slowly and with feeling…

    Hi Ryan! I just want to tell you how beautiful I feel about most of what we had last year. Every time I turn around, I relive so many beautiful memories with you. They were the most beautiful days of my entire life. You rocked my world.

    I have wanted all that good stuff back. I have wanted back the gentle, caring, sensitive, considerate Ryan, who I felt closer to than any human being I ever knew.

    I feel bad for all my mistakes: of overfunctioning, of not understanding the boy-girl dynamics of a relationship, of not being sensitive to you, and of blaming and criticizing too much.

    I’ve done my best to apologize; to right my wrongs; and to change. I learned a new version of the serenity prayer:

    “God, please grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that that one is ME.”

    I see you hurting, and I care so deeply and just want to help. I’m not trying to change you anymore. I just want to support you. I pray for you intensely every day.

    When you want to talk to me again, I want you to know I am here for you.

  127.  #127Emily on July 6, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    On that show Bethany is Getting Married-her hubby was telling about the proposal and he said, “She was keeping it on the sly, but I knew she was seeing other people. I was like I am an adult and I want a wife and a mother to my child…” and he proposed. I thought it was very interesting. She was basically Circular Dating!

  128.  #128tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 7:26 pm


    Please promise me you will still do all that work for yourself. You deserve to feel good about yourself, all the time!

    While I am very happy you got a text, I am still less than impressed by this man. He did not contact you in in four weeks and then he sends a text?

    Only you know if that works for you. It would not work for me, but that’s me.

    Let us know how your journey is going.

  129.  #129tallgirl10 on July 6, 2010 at 7:34 pm


    I really hope you can move on now. It took a lot of strength to do that, I am proud of you.

    Please do yourself a favor and read it again when you have time.

    Perhaps I read it incorrectly, but my main concern is that you insinuated that you did everything wrong.

    It is only fair for you to take ownership of your part, but I hope next time you have enough strength to only own your part, not the whole darn thing.

    Today is the first day of the rest of your life, now use all that love for someone who deserves it!

  130.  #130Nikita on July 6, 2010 at 8:45 pm


    thanks for the testimony 🙂
    Very interesting

  131.  #131Jennifer on July 6, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Dear Military Communications Guy

    I’m gonna show you tonight
    I’m alright, I’m just fine
    And you’re a TOOL
    So so what?
    I am a rockstar
    I got my rock moves
    And i don’t want you tonight

    That’s better….

  132.  #132dorothea on July 6, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    This is random but I am feeling like having cable tv and internet in my apartment is sucking out my goddess energy. maybe i should do something radical and get rid of both.

  133.  #133Rori Raye on July 6, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    KDR, Welcome, and there’s nothing “coy” about those words. It’s really totally straightforward. If he were to reply with the “fishing for I love you’s” ..then you say…”hardly fishing – I’m asking outright!” and you talk about it ALL! Answer his questions truthfully and from your heart. Love, Rori

  134.  #134Rori Raye on July 6, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Rosalie – here’s the issue for you – you don’t love yourself enough, so you attract very, very toxic and abusive men – and because that’s your whole experience with men, it feels normal to you. Circular Dating will work for you if you change the focus – if you work only to get yourself out of this painful pattern of abuse, and start dating men who may BORE you – but who wouldn’t HURT you. That’s the way to heal yourself. Love, Rori

  135.  #135KDR on July 6, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    Thank you Rori. That’s very empowering. But this “vulnerable honesty” stuff isn’t for wimps, is it? Yipes …

  136.  #136Ankita on July 6, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Hello ladies

    I want to get you people’s take on a situation of mine…. I want help here… Feel stuck…

    I & Vishal are planning to meet as soon as possible. Our first date is going to be a movie and then perhaps, some food. I wanted to have a romantic interesting movie, but have given up on the idea since he wants a not-so-interesting one, as he doesn’t wants to get distracted when he’s with me, and he doesn’t wants a lot of people around us either. As Rori says, I asked him to lead and make the plans. He said he wants to spend the entire day, looking at me, getting lost in my eyes, hugging me so tightly to his chest, and “feeling” me.. He doesn’t wants anyone else to be there other than us.

    As you all know we had really steamy sessions of phone sex, now he wants to finger me.. Even I do want to be fingered, but I’m afraid I’ll run the risk of moving too fast, if I do so, coz if we are the one for each other, we have 6-7 years before we can marry off. It’s been a long time since I had anyone finger me or something, I want that, but I’m afraid if this will be too fast to do…

    I want him to do so, but am afraid of the reason I told, what do you all think???

  137.  #137Ankita on July 6, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Wow….. I feel horrified…..
    2 days earlier, I gave my number to a guy on orkut as he asked me to meet him someday, today he texted me, “Wanna have sex someday?”, and this is his 3rd text, and I haven’t replied to the 1st one & 2nd one either…. Wow……. horrible guy…..
    Am not gonna reply to him even……

  138.  #138Ankita on July 6, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    My ex called today, asking me where i am taking admission…. I didn’t intend to tell him anything, but still told him, coz am proud of my achievements, and that I’m happy he’s has got little idea of what he lost, but didn’t tell him where I plan to go, etc… Kept down the phone in 5 mins, don’t want to mess up my life now… He asked me if I felt bad he called, I said, “No, it was unexpected, and I don’t like unexpected things to occur…”
    I’m a changed person, after all…..
    That’s it… wham bham…. Feel like closing door on his damn face….

  139.  #139Tina on July 6, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Ankita, wow, hm I dont know what to think. Fingering and a movie, how does that sound to you? or feel I should say. For me a guy asking to finger me and watch a movie then maybe dinner after does not sound romantic to me at all. now if my truckman said that I might laugh and say oh fug it lets do it but Ive known him for seven months so yeah, i feel good about him doing whatever,except when Im in a bad mood or feel triggered, then there is some romancing going on , on his part.

  140.  #140Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Saying I love you first is a risk yeah? I love you she said, he said can you please pass the butter 🙂 ouch coupledum. happens i guess…

  141.  #141Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:12 am

    I was on my treadmill tonight, saying to myself with FEELING I deeply love and completely accept myself, I love tools 🙂

  142.  #142Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:16 am

    life with no tools is like macaroni with no cheese 🙂 like spagetti with no meatballs 🙂 ok i feel hungry and im going to eat some cherries yeah life is like a bowl fo cherries 🙂

  143.  #143Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:25 am

    I prefer rose colored glasses, if thats all right with you.

  144.  #144Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Ankita, he is useless to you now. Useless to me now, my ex’s are useless to me now weeeeeee, they do come back, like why are you calling me? I feel angry and or no FURIOUS , I FEEL FREKIN FURIOUS, I AM FEELING TRIGGERED, TRIGGER CITY HERE i COME.

  145.  #145Tina on July 7, 2010 at 12:43 am


  146.  #146Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 1:13 am


    I know Vishal from 1 year…. I don’t know whether to say yes to him or no…. Confused… 🙁

    I wanna do it but am afraid might not I ruin my chances with him…..

  147.  #147Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Tina, my ex is useless now, as ever,,, even when he was with me, honestly he wasn’t a guy of much use… So am glad he’s outta my life…. I just don’t want him to create a mess now… he’s and his friends such a messy guys…..

  148.  #148Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 1:19 am


    Fingering and a movie,….. ha ha ha.. who’s gonna watch the movie then..!!!???
    He he, perhaps that’s the reason he’s trying to chose a not-so-good one….
    It’s the first time, so I feel little uneasy… But then again, i wanna be fingered too……. Umm…….
    Oooooooo… 😀

  149.  #149Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 1:20 am

    I love your comment no. 145….

    Aahh… a true goddessy spirit… esp. “the one naked in the sea….”….
    Wish i could do it someday tooo…..

  150.  #150Rosalie on July 7, 2010 at 3:38 am

    Rori, thank you for your answer!

    I still have to figure it out how can I get in touch with my own energies first. Yes, you were right, I only know toxic relationships. I never had anything else. I really loved myself up to the age of 16, when I met my first toxic men. After him, I got into clinical depression for long-long years. 10 years have passed and I’m still not allright. Sometimes it’s better, sometimes worse. I’m considered to be beautiful, but I can’t see myself as a desirable woman. I could never be myself with my ex loves and boyfriends. They were simply not interested in me! Just using me for free. And I was so naive, I didn’t see it. I thought it was normal- but now I know that it wasn’t. Until I didn’t get to your site Rori in March 2010, I was living in complete darkness. I receive the newsletters and I have the E-book.

    I’m like the slowly boiling frong in the water that is getting warmer and warmer. Now little frog me is perfectly cooked. Stuck in the rut, yes. I have the map to get out of the jungle but I feel I can’t get on my feet.

    I’m still missing my toxic man. Oh so typical 🙁

    Circular Dating is hard for me, because I live in a small city in a small country. I’m thinking about putting myself on as many dating sites as I can. National, worldwide etc. I don’t have fair chance to meet men here. There is no place to go out. I’m not after drunken teenager boys. 🙂

    There were cca. 5 men who contacted me since the break up, they were calling, wanted to meet etc. but when it came to the date, nothing happened. I was lean back all the time, nicely dressed, smiling, open but they just lost interest right on the first date.

    I don’t know how to love myself after all these… 🙁 Dear Sirens, you are doing amazing on yourselves, hope you can help me with any practical ideas.

  151.  #151tallgirl10 on July 7, 2010 at 5:27 am


    In my opinion, you are in a very precarious position because you have never met.

    In some level you have intimacy and a “relationship”, but it is fake (please don’t take this is as a criticism). It is fake because you have never met. Real relationships are people who see each other in person. Even if what you have feels real, it is only partly real.

    If you are concerned about the sexual part, I would be honest or you are going to abandon yourself on the date. This will leave you with poor self esteem.

    Before the date, tell him the truth – you don’t want to get sexual for a few dates to make sure that you both like each other and do not get ahead of yourself. Tell him this is not because you don’t want his hands on you, in fact, you can’t wait until that happens, but you want the meeting to be about making sure that you are compatible before you get sexual.

    How would that feel to say to him? Would that be empowering?

    Yes, he might leave, but you did not want that man anyhow who cannot respect your boundaries.

  152.  #152Wonder Woman on July 7, 2010 at 5:44 am

    I have learned so much about myself from these posts.

    It’s interesting that only a couple of days ago I wanted so badly to send an email that was designed to give me closure on Limbo man but when I read the posts here I will for the women to have the stength and courage to just move on and feel so strongly they don’t need to do that.

    I am ever thankful I am able to come here and gain a new perspective on things especially in the moments when I feel like I NEED to do something which I usually find out I absolutely DONT.

    Now I think about it my need for closure is probably not so much a need for closure as much as an hidden agenda to try to kick the man into action and what makes it worse I feel so worried that I want this guy to realise I like him and that I am only doing this because it is too hard for me to deal with while he is not reciprocating my feelings that I try to explain myself…..I try to make him feel good…..I try to let him know the door is always open….because the REAL reason for my actions is not closure…it is that I want him to think I am so good, loving, caring and special that he will realise I can’t afford to lose this woman…..and my email sounds so fantastic and unblaming…..and he will surely come round to seeing my point of view one day……so I send it, and I feel good for five minutes but what happens if/when he doesn’t reply as I want……I get real angry with myself and wish I had not done it because this man who didn’t have the guts to claim me, who didn’t treat me right, who didn’t make an effort has an email from me which leads him to believe he was so amazing and blameless that the only reason he didn’t want me must have been ME…..!! Surely it is better to let it be then to go stir crazy with myself for having done something which did not really stand a chance of getting me the result I wanted anyway.

    It’s funny how no matter how much I presume myself to be a street wise, grown up woman it takes so long for the most simple facts to sink in. At times I feel I am failing miserably at this but I keep remembering baby steps… steps… steps.

  153.  #153Simply Shannon on July 7, 2010 at 6:26 am

    WW: 152 – That is a FANTASTIC summary of why I should never send closure emails ever again. I’ve BTDT and I pray I’ll have the strength to never send one again.

    I get real angry with myself and wish I had not done it because this man who didn’t have the guts to claim me, who didn’t treat me right, who didn’t make an effort has an email from me which leads him to believe he was so amazing and blameless that the only reason he didn’t want me must have been ME…..!!

    Almost funny in a way reading it here but so sad and true all at the same time. Thank you for putting your thoughts down in black and white for me to read.

  154.  #154Tallgirl10 on July 7, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Wonder Woman and SS,

    Closure is a bitch. It never happens how you want, when you want etc…..

    And the bottom line is you are very astute to know that when you say closure, what you mean is to control and spur action. But deep down, you know the action will not follow or you would not need the closure conversation.

    My recent interaction with text man where I ended it before I left his place (and if I am honest, he was most likely not going to call for a while) was for my self protection. I knew that if I did not end it on my terms, I would be waiting, waiting waiting. And he knows the calls are not welcome unless he wants something that can grow, not on his terms.

    Ultimately, I got closure because I was willing to shut the door and feel the stinging pain of sadness and rejection. Instead of the attention seeking from someone who is incapable. When I see him in my head, he has no energy, he is just catatonic.

    Every day is a struggle because I still want to make nice, but it is at the expense of myself, and I won’t sacrafice myself anymore.

  155.  #155Lee on July 7, 2010 at 8:03 am

    I’ve been dating a man for a little over a year now, and had a weak moment and slipped and did the i love you first. I got a blank stare then, and finally after the silence, I said, Well? How do you feel about me? He said he didn’t know, but he was real fond of me. I was of course hurt, and angry, and very confused, he gave me a diamond heart necklace for Christmas. Well its been 4 months since I said it, and I did vow to never say it again till I hear it out of his mouth, so how do I keep my emotions in tact here? Everything else in our relationship is great, we just never speak of our most inner feelings for each other and its driving me nuts!

  156.  #156Tallgirl10 on July 7, 2010 at 8:17 am


    I am checking in. How are you feeling about your call from yesterday?

  157.  #157Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Tallgirl, RE: #129

    I have blamed him and made him wrong WAY too much in the past cuz the fact is he is 99% at fault for ruining our relationship. He knows how I feel about all that.

    I was trying to just own my part and to let him own his. I didn’t know any other way of doing that. But he knows and I know that he made a huge mistake when he gave me every reason to believe he was about to propose and then called a special meeting just to say it’s a friendship, I’m not in love with you.

    We have been acquainted for almost 3 years, and we started dating Dec 2008. With such a long term relationship, I truly needed closure, and that was purely my reason for writing and then saying that. I now have the peace of mind I was seeking, that I wasn’t getting from him.

  158.  #158Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 8:29 am

    Tallgirl, I appreciate you checking in. I saw that post after I wrote this post above. 🙂

  159.  #159Tallgirl10 on July 7, 2010 at 8:43 am


    Congrats on owning your part. Most people never do that.

    I suggest you go into no contact if that is what you need to move on. Take three months and focus on you, and what you need and want.

    We are all here to support you.

  160.  #160Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Yes, that is totally my plan. No contact. And peace, at last.

    Thank you!

  161.  #161Tallgirl10 on July 7, 2010 at 9:03 am


    Sadly, NC often does not bring peace in the short run. However, in the long run, we make room for other things to come into our lives.

    Good luck!

  162.  #162Wonder Woman on July 7, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Brenda – So brave and strong, I feel happy you have peace of mind. 🙂

  163.  #163Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Thanks for your support. I needed to do this in order to stop contacting him. I feel like I just came thru surgery. Now the worst of the pain is gone and I can heal with no recurring infection.

  164.  #164dorothea on July 7, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Hi Sirens and Rori….I have a situation that came up today that I have never had to deal with before in life. My LI’s dog of 9 years suddenly died last night. It was completely unexpected.

    I knew last night she (the dog) had to go to the ER and I was on the phone just listening, and then finally distracting him because he was soo anxious. But today I called to see what was up and she had died. I told him he should have called me. But he didn’t want to bother me. I told him we should meet up later and he said he would lke that. I would like to be there for him but I’m not sure how to do this the rori raye way.

    i am not good with death to begin with. i seem so cold about it.

    please help.

  165.  #165Siena on July 7, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Aww, Dorothea, losing a pet is like losing a close friend. And everyone deals with death differently. The key is to discover what he needs from you right now.

    So you might say something to him like, “I feel so sad that you lost your dog, and I want to be here for you. Do you want to talk about it?”

    He might say no, and you could say, “okay, just know that I feel so good with you and I am here if you need me.”

    It may be that he just wants to be alone – or he might want you there to distract him from the loss. He might want to talk to you, or he might not.

    I’ve dealt with this very recently also, and for me, the important thing was to not turn into his counselor or tell him how he should be behaving in order to deal with his grief.

    I had to remind myself that all I needed to be was open, vulnerable and available to him – while still letting him decide what we did (or didn’t do).

    It’s a tough place to be in… but you can do it!

  166.  #166Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 9:33 am


    Losing a pet can be as upsetting as losing a person we love. You could share with him the words of the song, “The Dance”, “You could have missed the tears, but you would have missed the dance.” Maybe he just needs the silent comfort of your presence.

  167.  #167Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 9:38 am


    This would be a good time for YOU to rub HIS neck! 🙂

  168.  #168Nikita on July 7, 2010 at 11:02 am

    I don’t know how to handle this but one thing to keep in mind is that you “can’t fix it” all you can do is be gentle and responsive. How do you feel about losing her(his pet)?

  169.  #169dorothea on July 7, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    I feel god awful about it. when he told me i got tears in my eyes. she is such a sweet dog. i have a picture of him sleeping with her on his chest. she was the best dog ever. i feel so sad.

    i am in “fix it” mode. i want to suggest to him that we go get a movie or something. i dunno. i dunno what to do.

    she died so suddenly. she was part of the family to him.

    thank you to everyone for the advice right now.

  170.  #170Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 12:19 pm


    Does he want to get another dog? You could go with him to a rescue and help him choose a new dog that needs a forever family!

  171.  #171dorothea on July 7, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    he probably won’t get another. not right now. he’s about to go out of town to his brother’s wedding and then to orlando with me on vacation to meet my grandma.

  172.  #172Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Sometimes I think the biggest comfort to someone in pain is simply our presence with no words.

  173.  #173dorothea on July 7, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    i feel sad WITH him. i feel guilty about this. like i have no right to be sad. i dunno…his pain hurts me too. I just love him and wish he didn’t have to go through this right now.

  174.  #174Amy F on July 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I read your exchange with Ryan and I felt this is such a good exchange for you to keep and read every so often. Re-read it. Know that Ryan is not ready to be with you and is not ready. You cannot be friends with someone you are in love with, or were in love with, and he does not want to be friends anyway. Convincing and begging does not work. It feels bad. Just STOP.

    CD. Date yourself. Go get a manicure. Read Eat, Pray, Love. If you have read it, read it again! Go to a museum. Join a club or a cause (did you know there is genocide going on in Darfur and a million other horrible things happening in the world that need great people like you to get involved?). Feel yourself. The more I feel myself, the more men feel me and trip over themselves to get to me. It’s the most amazing experience.

    You are too wonderful to accept crumbs. No, no, no. Just say no to crumbs!!

  175.  #175Pat on July 7, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I met a man last November. The chemistry was so strong between us we could hardly stand not to be apart from each other. He would tell me that he loved me and I would tell him the same. But then the drama began. He would tell me I will meet you at a certain time and then say that he is tired and going home. (He is 44 and moved in with his mother). Every conversation on the phone seemed more like a fight from his perspective. He said that he felt that I was manipulating him to do what I wanted him to do. Obviously he has not been in a relationship for a long time. Time passed and he would text me or I would text him. It has been 4 months, and I am so hurt not really knowing what happened. he is the most difficult man that i have met and feel that he is the one that is playing games. My heart aches for him and I know that he still has feelings but I do not want to chase….I have not texted him in 3 days because it will only hurt more if he doesn’t text me back which I know I should expect. Should I just forget him all together?

  176.  #176Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 12:47 pm


    When we get sexually involved with a man from the door, the deeper elements of a relationship, like spiritual, intellectual, and emotional connection, usually get short-circuited.

    It is wise to be involved on those levels first, and really take your time getting to know him. Even tho you haven’t touched physically, you have already become involved sexually. It could be challenging to back up, even tho you are just meeting.

    I have observed so many relationships, and I believe the bottom line for every one that fails is the person didn’t know the other person well enough before they got deeply involved.

    I think it’s fantastic how you dealt with your ex when he called! Good job!

    I hope you don’t let anyone put pressure on you to marry or not marry at a certain time. It is uniquely up to you, and you alone.

  177.  #177Brenda on July 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Thanks, Amy!

  178.  #178Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 2:22 pm


    I just talked to him minutes ago, (he went to sleep and I came here), I told him, “I like you a lot, but I just wanna wait a little to see how compatible we actually are. I don’t wanna do anything I might regret later.”

    He said, “Don’t worry. i won’t have sex with you. i know it’s wrong at the moment, we are way too young for marriage. Are you suspicious that I won’t be able to satisfy you?” (grins off after that)

    Me, “No. I know you’ll. In fact, I can’t wait to touch you. But before coming to your room and getting that intimate with you,(P.S ->he’s calling me to his room, and am denying it), i wanna get comfortable with you, and that can take a while..”

    He, “Take as long as you want, am waiting for you. But after that, you’ll be close with me naa?”

    I said, “Oh ya, but it may take a while..”

  179.  #179tinque on July 7, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    “Sometimes I think the biggest comfort to someone in pain is simply our presence with no words.”

    Yes, especially with most men.

  180.  #180Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 2:32 pm


    When you said, “When we get sexually involved with a man from the door, the deeper elements of a relationship, like spiritual, intellectual, and emotional connection, usually get short-circuited.” -> that’s the only thing am scared about….

    I’m finding it really hard to backup, but i wanna stop him on our date. I’m more concerned coz it’s been a long time since I had sex, and I feel li’l embarrassed to admit, am back after a banging phone sex session, he has gone off to sleep and I’m here…. I hate the fact that Vishal makes me lose my control….

    I have told it to Vishal that i wanna get to know him better before going nay further with him, and he has agreed….. My relationship with my ex fell apart just due to my ignorance int his case, and i don’t want the history to repeat itself in this case….

    He seems like a “keeper”, not a “throwback”…

    I wanna take it all really slow…..

  181.  #181Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 2:37 pm


    Yayyyy… I feel so happy for you… You acted so brave and strong… Wow…..
    (((Love and Hugs)))…..

  182.  #182Lizzie on July 7, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Tall Girl – I was driving 90 min out to a client today for a tough meeting then an even tougher one back in town with another client. On my way out, I focused on what I love about myself – I did this in my thinking head; then I spoke it out loud. What a difference! Speaking it out loud feels wonderful! And the best part…my difficult meetings went better than anticipated.

    On my way back to town, I began the internal conversation of forgivness and compassion.

    I am going speed dating tomorrow night – LOL!!! I am going to continue the “work” and practice leaning back – now you must know I am very social and extroverted…leaning back in such a social environment will not be easy! And I am so keen to practice.

    If anyone else on here is in the east – like can you freaking believe the heat???!!! I am a sweat ball – makes hot flashes feel like I live in the Yukon….

  183.  #183mary on July 7, 2010 at 10:51 pm


    let’s say that you felt embarrassed about something you did on a date, and a little time webt gone by, and you didn’t really hear from the guy much after that…

    would you email him to tell him your feelings? just to clear the air?

    this is very important to me.


  184.  #184Sweetpea on July 7, 2010 at 11:27 pm


    I emailed a guy not long ago to explain a couple of comments I made (they weren’t that embarrassing, but I sensed they were a “sticking point” for him. I felt better after I sent them, & he did call me to talk about it. Which was really nice & I respected him for it. But it didn’t change anything, except it made me regret that we wouldn’t see each other anymore because he was so nice & emotionally mature about it.

    So if it will make you feel better & you can do so without any expectations, do so. But keep in mind that it will likely not change anything.

  185.  #185Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    I don’t get how to make him back off from the sex topic…. Every night when we run out of topics to talk about, he starts talking about sex and how he would like to make love to me, etc.

    I feel like it’s all too much, too soon…..

  186.  #186Ankita on July 7, 2010 at 11:52 pm


    I agree with sweetpea

    you can do it for your satisfaction, but don’t expect it to change anything….

  187.  #187Tina on July 8, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Mary, NO lol.

  188.  #188Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:20 am

    Tina lol. Mary I would take the opportunity to love my embarrassment and stand for myself and send myself approval in the midst of the stormy thrashing of mortification fear ickyness. I am worthy I am good I am attractive. Always and when I feel twisted inside too.

  189.  #189Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 5:29 am

    I have been working nights. So maybe I’m cranky but I feel annoyed.
    I love my annoyance. I Love my crankiness.
    There is not river of men right now.
    Lots of them have looked at my profile on POF…but no emails…I WANT EMAILS. I WANT DATES. I Want love notes and flowers and romance.
    I want men to smile at me more. I want to stop feeling nervous!
    I want men to start emails by saing “hello beautiful” B never once called me beautiful.
    I want a big bouquet of lillies. I love lillies.
    I want them to contact me first. I want them to lean WAY forward. In a really healthy, comfortable, sexy way!
    Hey…UNIVERSE!!! I’m talkin here!!!!!

  190.  #190Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 5:49 am

    Mary, Looking back on my relationships, I often went looking for reasons I was “rejected” by a boy. Making myself wrong for the 100 stupid things I did along the way. (Taking them from tiny things to “the” deal breaker that ruined our relationship.) Sometimes people just stop talking for whatever reason. Odds are extremely high that the guy never even noticed the 100 stupid things I did. He’s probably concerned about the 100 stupid things he thinks HE did. We’re all so self centered that it’s typically never the thing we think we did that’s bothering the other person.

    I agree with everyone else. If I’m asking the question it’s because I have an agenda and it’s secretly an attempt to get him to talk to me again. Now I would only do it in the natural flow of a conversation I’m already having, i.e. blah, blah, blah, remember that time I tripped and fell… I feel embarrassed about that. What do you think? blah, blah, blah…

  191.  #191Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 6:38 am

    I’m hot. Freaking hot. Sweat pouring down my neck, between my tiny boobs, down my back, my pants are soaked, sweat forms behind my knees… it is hot, freaking hot. How do you southerners do it??? I am swolen. Do you think it might melt my menopause middle??? Then, I am so happy I sweat, I love to feel the warm breeze caressing my skin, drying the sweat, but not for long, the blast of airconditioning – now that is heaven. The cold air prickles my skin – I love my skin, I love that I can sweat, my man loves to feel me sweat, he thinks it is sexy, he wants to sweat with me. He just freaking wants me.

    I love Tall Girl’s practice.

    I live in Canada for heaven sake – since when does it get this freaking hot!!! The land of ice and snow – and and 34C at 9:AM in July…. I’m moving to Florida…..I love Florida… there is a breeze in Florida…..

  192.  #192Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 6:43 am

    Jennifer – shall I look at your POF profile? I am going to take myself off permanently tomorrow. I hate what that site does to people. I get “hey beautiful” all the time – from some of the strangest characters! I send a thank you note and then scrub them out – it is very therapeutic.

    I am going speed-dating tonight – ha ha ha ha ha – I am going to be a siren diva awesome chick

  193.  #193Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 6:44 am

    then, I am going to move to Florida so I can have a breeze…..

  194.  #194Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Lizzie, I live in the South. 95-100 degrees with 40% humidity. But I love summer. It’s my favorite time of year. Beach, sun, pool. Bring it on!

    Ankita: I would feel better to get off the phone before I run out of topics to discuss. Actually now I’ve learned it feels good to keep all my phone calls short. I don’t want to create an imaginary relationship. Giving so much detail upfront creates a level of intimacy that doesn’t truly exist until I spend face time with a man.

  195.  #195Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 7:05 am


    Thank you for your sweet encouragement!

    About Vishal, I totally agree with Shannon in 192. Also, he is not respecting your boundaries. Or maybe he just doesn’t get it yet. Or maybe you have given him mixed messages by saying I want to wait for sex yet having phone sex with him all the time. I know, I know, it’s hard to control when it’s so fun!

    Maybe you could try some feeling messages that will set some firmer boundaries, like…

    “I feel unheard. I feel increasingly uncomfortable that this is becoming primarily a sexual relationship. I value you as a person. I want to invest the time into getting to know all of you: spiritually, intellectually, and emotionally. Not just physically. What do you think?”

  196.  #196Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Would you?
    That would rock!!!
    Any of you other girls can too!!! YEah for feedback!
    I will may not like the disclaimer at the top but for sure…let me know what you feel!

    I’m lady escapade!!!
    I’m in Canada too. WTF is this friggin heat? Me no likey heat! Me likey fall…warm nights lotsa colours. mmmmm….falllllll.

  197.  #197Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Simply Shannon – do you sweat?

    Ankita – I absolutely agree with Simply Shannon – I don’t do long email – mostly to do a check-in or to set a date, telephone calls are only to make dates and to follow-up on a single incident – like you had a bike accident, so did you get your broken leg fixed?; and never do IM unless it is planned because I/he is traveling and we agree to writing porn to each other. So get off the phone! I only do relationship in human form.

    Lets all move to Shannon’s beach and drink mint julep….

    I am on day 4 of a high protein diet – in an effort to shrink menopause middle – I am beginning to feel really wonderful but I will tell you – breaking the carb habit is really tough!

  198.  #198Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Jennifer – where on earth do you live??? OK so I have lived in the same province for god knows how many years, I drive by where you live god knows how many times… Are there men there? How about saying you live in the lovely metropolis just a bit further east? I almost bought a limestone cottage there many years ago because I had a nice project with the government there. Never did it but really love the area.

    So, your profile, first of all – you are gorgeous!! freaking beautiful!!

    OK now – my suggestions based on feedback from a 20-year old who tutors my kids; and it worked ….

    write a few lines about who you are

    write a few lines about the guy you are looking for

    write a few lines about what you will do together

    keep it lite and sexy
    I think you can re-write your stuff in that form and will be incredibly successful

    have a look at mine before I take it down – I un-hid for you:

  199.  #199Amy F on July 8, 2010 at 7:43 am


    How are you feeling this morning?

  200.  #200Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Jennifer!! I LOVE your profile! And you are beautiful! The little avatar here does you NO justice. Wow. If it was my profile (and I’m getting ready to write a new one), I would drop the disclaimer. Whenever I read negative stuff from a guy I always feel defensive. Personally, I’d rather get the questions / emails than nothing. KWIM?

    If you want to try something different, create a list of simple pleasures and post that as your profile. That’s what mine has been and I got a lot of good responses to it. My plan right now is to come up with just a few sentences, like just a teaser paragraph. I’m experimenting with it. So here’s my old profile. I really loved this idea.

    — — — —

    Rather than tell you my life story, I feel excited to share some of the things that make me feel happy.

    My Simple Pleasures:

    laughing til my mouth hurts
    happy hour
    the smell of the ocean
    slow kisses
    a great pair of heels
    an inspiring church service
    the crack of a well hit baseball
    my children’s laughter
    a cherry Icee
    old friends
    watching my children sleep
    the cool side of a pillow
    a man who leads
    a spa pedicure
    the first day of summer
    the last day of summer
    a great book
    white Christmas lights
    finding a four leaf clover
    an ice cold beer
    a cozy bed
    unapologetic honesty
    true love
    unbridled affection

    What’s on your list? It would feel great to hear from you…

  201.  #201Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Lizzie: I love your profile too HOT momma! Hmmm, I feel happy reading your profile. Your sense of humor is evident. I laughed several times. I LOVE that. 🙂

    Maybe it’s just a POF thing? Because it’s free? I don’t know. I’ve hidden my profile there as well. I’m planning to buy a subscription to Match. The quality of men was much better there for me.

    I feel nervous about writing my profile again. Just thinking about it has me feeling crazy.

    There is something to be said when I’ve come off of my ManFast and now I’m having issues with my addictions again. Eating like crazy (think I’ve gained 10 lbs), smoking occasionally (quit back in Feb.), even skin picking some. Ugh. What is up with that?

    Can we say self sabotage?

  202.  #202Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:57 am

    just like I thought – Simply Shannon doesn’t sweat…..

    I love your approach on your profile!
    I have seen a few guys do that and really like it as well.

    Jennifer lets move to Florida – they have a breeze…..

  203.  #203Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Simply Shannon – STOP PICKING!!! Ok easier said than done, I am guilty. Stop eating!!! and for heaven sake stop smoking!!!
    Ok now the mother in me is kicking-in….

    Here are some ideas –
    – instead of picking:
    – do a face mask – I have so many mask products! And it really helps if I am gooping up my face regulairly, I seem to stop with the picking
    – get your nails done. For some odd reason, when my nails are done I don’t pick because it ruins nails very very quickly
    – pluck your hair – since it is a habit, you need to replace the it with something else – shape your brows, do your upper lip, do your belly button, whatever…

    Immediately go on a protein diet: within 2 days your craving for carbs will stop. I have low blood sugar issues so I have to live on a high protein diet – it takes discipline and a bit of thinking and it works brilliantly. If your eating is a habit, find something to replace it – take up knitting; you can not eat and knit at the same time; take up walking you can not eat and walk at the same time; and if you eat a balanced protein diet you will not get any of the cravings. Drink iced tea!

    you can have a smoke once in a while – think of black lungs….my kids will get on your case big time they think it is revolting. I smoked for 13 years I don’t think the same way. So lets say you need to give up 2 of three things – give up picking and give up carbs.

    You did brilliantly with the man-fast – you can do this too!!

    And, THANK YOU for your lovely comments on my profile.

  204.  #204Siena on July 8, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Ladies, this is a first grade question, but I’ll ask anyway. What do you do when a CD says he’ll call and doesn’t? As in, “I’ll call you tomorrow”? And then nothing? This is from a CD who hasn’t dropped the ball yet at all. He’s always done what he says he’s gonna do, has been very good to me.

    I’m asking because the old me would have just ignored it. But I feel annoyed, and want to handle this like a Siren. I’m also very sensitive by nature, so am careful to not overwhelm people with my oversensitivity. Things that make me feel bad don’t bother other people at all.

    I feel it, and I love those feelings. But should I bring it up next time he calls? Or just let it go, and only say something if it happens again?

  205.  #205Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 8:22 am


    It is a tiny red flag when someone says they will call and do not. I would give him 24 hours leaway since you said he has not dropped the ball and 24-48 hours seems fair after a date.

    I like the chapter in He’s Just Not Into You about men who don’t call and when a man says he is going to do something and then does not.

    It says that comments are little bricks to the house of a relationship, and if he can’t even do that, then he is not respectful and not really building anything.

  206.  #206Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 8:23 am


    I would say it if it happens again, he gets one pass.

  207.  #207Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 8:26 am


    How sweet of you to ask! I feel far better, but of course not hunky-dory. Part of me is shifting into determined mode, and part of me is in who-cares mode. But overall, I feel at peace and I feel really good about sending him a closure message.

    I have a new CD guy from Match who is emailing from Massachusetts, and it feels good to have a distraction. I went swimming last night for exercise and it felt good to take care of myself. My hip is finally pain free after 6 months of little exercise. I am starting all over again getting in shape, because I did a whole lot of walking last summer. I feel frustrated to have to start all over, but I am thankful for life and a body that is capable of getting in shape. One of my highest goals is to lose down to my right weight and get in shape.

  208.  #208Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 8:30 am


    I don’t see that as overly sensitive. It is a valid point, and it shows respect and care when he says he’s going to do something and does it. It was one area where Kenny was a winner for me. He ended every contact by telling me when the next contact would be, whether it was time together or a phone call. And he would always be there right on schedule. He has always treated me like I’m #1.

    You are right to accept nothing less. I would use a simple feeling message, like, “I feel disappointed that you didn’t call when you said you would.”

    Or whatever it is you feel…disrespected? Angry? Irked?

  209.  #209Siena on July 8, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Thanks TG! We didn’t have a date, we just had a phone convo and he said, I’ll call you tomorrow, which he didn’t do. He did send me an email with pics though. And we have a date on Sat.

    I (like many, I’m sure) have so much old baggage at this point that even small stuff triggers me and it’s like trying to walk through a minefield sometimes.

    Maybe if I’m still feeling it next time he calls, I’ll say something like, “I feel bad. I heard you say you were going to call yesterday, and I feel let down.”

  210.  #210Siena on July 8, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Thanks Bren, I guess I should say it. I feel confused sometimes with the feelings vs feeling messages. What I mean is, do we ALWAYS say what we’re feeling? No free passes? I don’t want to be always looking out for bad stuff. I dunno. I’m feeling tired and done with all this dating. It’s hard work!

  211.  #211Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 8:35 am

    I’m interested in this answer too!! What’s the Siren way?

  212.  #212tinque on July 8, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Siena – You don’t have to nor is it the greatest idea to express each and every passing feeling you have.
    We feel hundreds of feelings a day after all.
    You know you tend towards sensitivity as do I.
    Sometimes you have to weigh out the situation. You said this man has not dropped the ball, so is this you just feeling too too?
    If this starts to be a pattern, OR if this is REALLY eating at you, then yes express it, otherwise I would suggest letting it go.
    I have this tendency to feel slighted at sometimes the smallest things, but I know it’s my insecurities which seem to easily rear their heads, especially if I’m having a deeper process going on inside at that time. So I usually quiet them knowing that whatever this was, whatever was said resembles nothing like where I when with it, or maybe this person is having a thing of his/her own, and it just came out weird.
    You know if something is directed right at you deliberately or is something that just came out all wrong, and a little more tricky, if it’s you being your extra sensitive self at this moment.
    Take some time to ponder this. If it’s festering still when yo next see him or talk to him, you speak up. If it’s no longer such a “thing”, then let it go.
    Make sense?

  213.  #213Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Siena – in Rori’s e-book, the chart where she shows you, when he does this, say this… For “he didn’t call” it says “say nothing.”

    I remember it because I was thinking. “Really?! Just let it go?!” when I read it…

  214.  #214Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 8:50 am

    I have a similar situation to Siena…I’ll call him LD…so he text me on a Friday to meet on a Wed and then when Wed rolled around I never heard from him…so I figured that was that…then 2 days later he sends me a text hoping I’m doing good. I was thinking “What the hell!!) so I texted him back that I felt happy to hear from him but I felt confused about Wednesday and I didn’t want to wonder about it…what happened? and he said he thought I was going to let him know if I was working or not (I’m on call all the time) so it made sense but also could be a lame excuse…then yesterday I get a text from him asking how I’m doing…then nothing…I feel like it’s time to say something next time he texts me…but the last guy I said something to I feel like I put pressure on…uggggg…I feel soooo frustrated ….what do you guys think???

  215.  #215Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Siena: I don’t know. Like you, the old me would have stuffed it and said nothing… but let it continue to irk me. Then I’d be waiting for it to happen again. 🙁 I would like to believe I’d say something now. If it’s not a big deal, then it won’t be perceived as a big deal. I feel kind of afraid to make judgments that “this time” I won’t say anything. I feel afraid I’ll start to hide so many other things.

  216.  #216Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 8:53 am

    You know… I feel unsure bringing this up but… when you said you’d call me and then didn’t, I felt really annoyed. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it when I feel so good with you normally. What do you think?

    I feel nervous. Writing that and I feel nervous. Weird.

  217.  #217Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Sweetpea, I agree with Rori but in this case, he said he would call and didn’t. For me, that feels different. It’s not that he just didn’t call. Yes, my life should be so busy that I don’t even notice these things but to me, I want a guy who does what he says he will do.

  218.  #218Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:00 am


    If you got an email from him that day, then you are being oversensative. He thought – I will contact her, you heard – I will call you. He followed through on contact and to me, that is keeping his promise.


    What is your inside telling you? If it is saying this guy is not into you, then pay deep attention. If your heart and head are not matching there is a reason. Head – oh, I accept excuse 1, 2,3 and Heart – this behavior does not feel right. Have an adult conversation between the head and the heart. Generally, the heart knows. I would have taken the excuse the first time only, but for him to keep popping up and disappearing – I would not even wait until you hear from him again. Do you want a real relationship or a fake one? Next!

  219.  #219Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:01 am


    I like your feeling message better than mine. It was a minor infraction, and yours words it more mildly. I think in this case, yes, he does need to be called on it.

    I think we should choose our battles, as it were, but this is a point of respect. You up your degree of difficulty when you expect respect.

    No, I don’t think it’s always appropriate to voice our feelings. For me, I briefly ask myself what’s my goal in this particular communication? If I just gave a heavy duty feeling message to draw his attention to a major issue, I will let the smaller things drop, at least temporarily. I also try to handle only one or two things at a time, as they come up.

    And I keep in mind what CC said that the record of successful couples is 20 positive interactions for every negative interaction.

  220.  #220Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:02 am

    I know some guys move faster than others…I’m waiting for reconnect and the tools..I hope they come today…I don’t remember what program that Rori talks about a man’s timeline lol…I want to listen to that one!

  221.  #221Dan_Brodribb on July 8, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Jilly – From what you wrote it sounds like he’s fishing to see where you’re at before he puts himself out there.

    It’s a habit a lot of us have. We don’t want to put our cards on the table until we have an idea of the other persons cards.

  222.  #222Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:03 am


    Only spend energy on men who act like they are into you. Does popping up every now and then feel like the man is into you? If so, then have the conversation.

    I am getting a little jaded perhaps, but I feel like men are on their best behavior at the beginning, if they can’t even keep it together then, then what does the future look like?

    Lukewarm behavior does not get better from my experience.

  223.  #223Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:07 am


    Really? It sounds to me like he did not follow up on plans (aka standing her up), and then now is keeping her in rotation and managing down her expectations.

    If it were only the stand up and then a follow up, I would agree with you.

    However, he could have followed up about Wed before wed, she does not seem to remember that she agreed to get back to him. That is a weird thing not to remember.

  224.  #224Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Thanks TG!! yes I do know better! and even though these guys seem really nice…not the typical guys I’ve dated in the past with big egos…they still get the NEXT!…if a guy is more comfortable texting for a month before meeting and after meeting than I feel that’s a sign he can’t do relationship (if we live in the same town) even though I really like the goodmorning beautiful and goodnight beautiful…everyday…NEXT!!!!

  225.  #225Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:09 am

    You know when a man likes you? You know a man likes you.

    You know when a man is not that into you? You feel confused.

  226.  #226Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:09 am

    When I first joined Siren Island, I was upset over a Bill setting a coffee date at work and then forgetting…for the third time. I know this is a little more severe than a missed phone call, but here is what Rori told me:

    “A man stands you up once – please say “Next” and do not let him get a second chance. For you, a recovering addict…I understand the second chance — but you know as well as I do that the third chance you gave him was your “fix.” I don’t want you to need that anymore…We will all help you here. Love, Rori”

  227.  #227Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Dan…I feel interested in this…I’ve read “He’s just not that into you….” so I know where TG is coming from…is there another perspective??

  228.  #228Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:14 am


    A month to get together? And then no real follow up except kind of standing you up? You can do better.

    I just lived it. My heart told me from the first date that this man was not into me. I ignored it because I wanted to see what happened.

    You know what happened? I did not take care of myself (my heart), and I got hurt because I kept making excuses and abandonned myself.

    I am doing a lot of inner bonding work – and I am realizing that my adult does not always have self esteem, but my heart usually tells it like it is.

    That does not mean that I do not have to really listen to self limiting beliefs, but it is that negotiation between the head and the heart. Hard work. But worth it.

  229.  #229Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:14 am

    I feel interested..but at the same time I feel that he could have definitely made more of an effort…I do know when a guy is into me…TG thanks….you sound really good these days!! 😉

  230.  #230Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Jilly, I feel annoyed by texting. I’ve pretty much stopped communicating that way. It turns me off. I know when I use text it means I’m a) busy and don’t have time to really talk, b) too scared to discuss the matter, c) not sure of the response and not wanting to impose on that person’s time (aka feeling unworthy).

    For me, in a man, those things are all turn offs.

    I would feel angry that he asked to meet me and then stood me up. I’d feel angry at myself for assuming we had a date based on a text message (lesson learned). I would feel annoyed that the guy keeps texting instead of calling (see above for reasons why).

    Deep breath. I love my feelings. I love who I am. If he texted me again, I’d say:

    I feel weird. I felt excited that we were going to meet and when we didn’t, I felt disappointed. I would feel happy to talk to you and meet. What do you think?

    Then say nothing else. I would sit in the discomfort even though I would want to say more and explain. And I would circular date and not wait around for this guy.

    Jilly, how does that land with you?

  231.  #231Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:16 am


    Just an FYI, I usually use men to help me with my perspectives on dating. I use women to help me better communicate.

    The guys here (at work) say – a month to get together and shabby follow up with a kind of stand up – that is not a man who is into you.

    The men I work with are all married and in happy relationships.

  232.  #232Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:19 am

    All of the men who I know who are in marraiges or relationships say that this type of behavior is unnacceptable and they do it because the women accept it. It never makes a man like you more.

    And you can’t make someone like you more. You can only not accept their behavior and tell them to take a heave ho.

  233.  #233Siena on July 8, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Thank you all for your feedback! Wow, I feel so supported!

    There’s another element to this, which is that he’s been on vacation, which means that we haven’t really connected in a couple of weeks. I’m not much of a phone person, and it’s difficult for me to feel connected via phone.

    My instincts tell me to let him have a pass on this one, or at least to bring it up on Saturday when we spend the day together so that it’s done face-to-face, and during a time when we are feeling connected.

    Some of what I’m feeling is missing him and waiting for Saturday, which is a special date that he’s planned as a surprise for me. So while yesterday was a really busy day for me, I was looking forward to his call, and felt bummed when it didn’t come.

    I would like to tell him this, but I would feel better telling him in a moment when we are connected.

  234.  #234Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:21 am

    I work with mostly with men…I am a firefighter…and I was having “girltalk” (they LOVE girltalk time lol) and the 3 that I was talking with were saying that he’s into me if he’s thinking about me and texting me…kind of like what Dan was saying…that’s why I feel interested…

  235.  #235Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:21 am

    I am abviously feeling triggered. I also struggle with dealing with ambivalent behavior. That behavior usually comes from mixed feelings. I don’t want to be with someone at the beginning who has mixed feelings about me. I will never allow someone like that into my life again because it never works out in my favor.

  236.  #236Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:22 am

    But…I know I have to go with my instincts overall..

  237.  #237Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Tallgirl: I’m gonna say something even though I feel uncomfortable saying it. I feel defensive reading your advice. I feel prickly, like I’m being told what to do. It’s also a softness thing I’m noticing. I hear you saying “next” but that’s not always the answer. Running or pushing away is not always the answer.

    I know for me, it sounds good in my head to say “next” but that’s never reality for me. Even if I physically say “next”, often times that guy’s spirit is still riding my horse with me. My brain says I “should” bump him off my horse, but my heart doesn’t want to do it.

    Any of that resonate? I feel your strength coming through which feels good but it also feels hard, like iron clad walls that no man could ever get past.

  238.  #238Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:24 am


    Did you tell them:
    A. It took a month to get together?
    B. He kind of stood you up?
    C. He texted you and then never responded to your responce?

    I think you know the answer. Otherwise you would not need a bunch of people to help you analyze.

    Whenever I have to analyze, I know something is not right.

    BTW – he is interested, but interested in what and how much is the real question? Interested enough for what you want?

  239.  #239Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:28 am

    You guys are awesome 😉 I was posting about the guys I work with and at the same time TG was posting about the guys she works with…that is awesome…

    SS..yes I love that…I have not missed a beat…I’m still totally circular dating and using these other guys that aren’t stepping up as practice with my feeling messages…I have not leaned forward in any way

  240.  #240Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:28 am


    I hear what yor are saying.

    You will notice I had very different comments for Sienna and for Jilly.

    For Siena, this man is cleary in contact, but just in ways that are different than she wants. This can be worked on.

    I am not saying to say Next! for Jilly, I am pointing out that often on these boards, we make excused for men when inside we know the truth. It sounds like she knows that waiting a month to get together, and then kind of standing her up, and then not really engaging is not working for her.

    If it is not working for her, then Next! If it is, then she should be very open to it!

    Only she knows the answer to her own question.

  241.  #241Siena on July 8, 2010 at 9:29 am

    The ambivalent behavior comment brings up another question for me. John Grey (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) say that all relationships in the beginning go through a stage of uncertainty that comes before commitment, where each person is deciding if they want to move the relationship forward.

    What has your experience been with this, do you think it’s true?

    If it’s true, I’ve been stuck in uncertainty in some relationships for the entire time I was with the guy.

  242.  #242Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:31 am

    I do tend to communicate in a very New Yorker way which is very dirrect. I will use this is a way to be more inquisitive for how to think about things.

  243.  #243Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:31 am


    I think it’s wise to bring it up while you’re together and connected. It does make a difference that he just got back from vacation and that you have a special date coming up this weekend.

  244.  #244Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:35 am


    I agree with that about initial hesistance. I don’t expect a man to be into ME when we have only first made contact. Only after a date or two…:-)

  245.  #245Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:35 am


    Interesting question. In my experience there are different levels of ambivalence. When the person simply backs off a little, that is one thing, when someone disappears, that is another.

    In my longest relationship, we both thought about if we were right together, but that brought us together, not created a long distance.

    There are other perspectives about if a man does not know what he wants, he does not want what he’s got.

    Sadly, I find that when someone is ambivalent so much that when they go away or behave stangely, that is I act open to him he goes away. I won’t be in a relationship with a lot of push and pull. That is usually very unhealthy.

    Two people with feet in, that does not mean that both are not thinking and assessing, but communication is really important.

  246.  #246Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:35 am


    You’re from NY? What area, if you don’t mind my asking? I used to live in Upstate NY. I owe my stepmother a visit, too.

  247.  #247Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:38 am

    A lot of people think that the JG advise is just an excuse for a lot of crappy behavior.
    Only the person can decide what is right for them.

    To me, disappearing (which he says is ok), is never ok. I want a growing relationship, and if someone goes away from more than 5 – 7 days, then they are not into me, or not concerned about how I might feel. Neither is ok. Relationships take two people, and someone who cannot communicate or empathize that there is someone else is pretty lame.

  248.  #248Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Jennifer and Lizzie,

    Thank you for sharing your profiles! You are both so beautiful! I appreciate your creativity!

    I’m SpiritedMistyQ if you want to see mine!

  249.  #249Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Shannon, Brenda

    This morning I was really feeling uneasy about the whole movie concept, he’s creating the environment as such to encourage intimacy.. I told mom everything and asked for her opinion…

    She has asked me to somehow cancel the movie date and opt for something else. She has asked me to say that I need to get home really early, and that we should postpone the movie plan. Also, i intend to tell him that I wanna get connected spiritually, emotionally with him before getting intimate. Let’s see how it goes. He’s bound to be upset as he must have done a lot of planning, but I guess, I can’t help with that.

    I don’t wanna invite another disaster in my life, after my messy ex. He was enough to last a lifetime of disaster.

    I don’t wanna base another relationship on sex. I’m done with it.

    If I & Vishal are to be together, i want this to happen on all other levels too..

  250.  #250Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:39 am

    You go, Tallgirl!

  251.  #251Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:39 am

    I no longer live in NY, but consider myself a new yorker.

    BTW, I know I sound perscriptive, but I really like a lot of the stuff on baggage She really tells it like it is, and to not make excuses for yourself or for the person you are dating.

    She is all about getting real about men who are not acting into you.

  252.  #252Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 9:41 am

    I hope, if he doesn’t respects my boundaries, he’s not meant to be mine….

    Oh.. Sorry…. Mistake…..

    Perhaps then, “I’m not meant to be his……”…

    Only those looking for sex will not respect a girl with boundaries,and am done with them….. I want a guy to be into me.. not my looks and body…..

  253.  #253Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:42 am

    There is also a board for baggage reclaim and the perspectives on a lot of the behavior that rori would accept, would not be accepted there.

    What I mean is that they would say that even in my case, I was never in an interaction with text man, he just thought we were casually dating. It was hard to hear, and my gut says that was where we were at the end, but relationship was a lot in my head, or I wanted it to be.

  254.  #254Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Oh Wow tallgirl10

    Thanks for the site… Am checking it out now…

  255.  #255Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Wow.. It says…..

    ‘Don’t make excuses for other people’s behavior as you’re assuming you know better because you don’t want to hear the truth. Accept what they have done or said because you can decide if you want to stay or go under real circumstances & reasons. If you’re making excuses for their excuses it means the original excuses were crap”….

  256.  #256Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:45 am


    You should do what makes you comfortable. However, you should consider that men do not take to kindly to what they consider “teasing” behavior. Sadly, where you have gone with him could be considered that.

    I would suggest, if you are comfortable with it to fess up to your total truth and say you got carried away with the sexual part and they you really want to set the relationship up for success. It has to slow down.

    And apologize for behavior that may have given the wrong impression.

  257.  #257Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I agree if you have to analyze it…it’s not good..
    I also know I’ve picked guys who can’t do relationships because I didn’t want real intimacy…I feel that alot of the guys in fire are like that too because the profession isn’t family oriented AT ALL (I do wildland) and there are MANY divorces that happen because the men (and women) just aren’t around alot…so I did take their advice with a grain of salt because I knew who I was talking to any none of them are married…interesting….

  258.  #258Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I love that site, it is very harsh, but very real.

  259.  #259Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 9:48 am


    That sounds really good, and I’m happy for you that you are able to discuss it with your mother so openly! You are on a healthy path.

    Yes, it sounds like he is setting it up for a sexual encounter. I bet if you went thru with it, he’d bring a blanket (for so-called warmth in case it’s too air-conditioned) and want to sit in the back row of the theater. Been there, done that.

    You will increase your degree of difficulty if you stand up for what you’re comfortable with, plans or no plans. Let him work for it! 🙂

  260.  #260Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 9:49 am

    I am an echo
    My experience with guys – they call for a specific reason – to make a date, ask about your broken refrigerator, your daughter’s swim competition… They hate to call, just because – that is a girl thing. He already set up a date to see you on Saturday – he is already thinking he is going to see you on Saturday, no need to call he has done what he needs to do. Problem solved, guys love to solve problems.

    By not calling, he triggered your fear. Take a moment to find out what the trigger is all about.

    Totally enjoy your date on Saturday.

    I am speed dating tonight and just go a date with a POF guy! I am not into POF guy and will just be too happy to CD and LOVE love this!!

    I practiced Tall Girl practice again – I feel so wonderful! I had a difficult convo with a client this AM and it went so smoothly, I was more open, relaxed and focused on finding a good way to resolve the issue. Tall Girl is wonderful and inspiring.

  261.  #261Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:50 am


    My truth right now:

    1) I am not as emotionally mature as I think I am. Otherwise, I would not keep choosing emotionally immature men. I have to own that.

    2) Real relationships scare the heck out of me because my parents faught all the time.

    3) I never developed a good sense of self in relationships because when things got bad, that is when I try harder because I was conditioned that I could make it better

    4) My parents did not see me (they were not bad, but there was no room with their issues) and I need to learn to be kinder to myself because no one else is gonna do it.

    5) I have to listen to my gut, it has never been wrong even once.

  262.  #262Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Also, check out the book about ambivalent men by rhonda findling. She is also all about truth – both for you and for him.

  263.  #263Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 9:54 am

    I’m going to go look at your profiles…I feel interested to see more of you guys! mine is jilly1828 on pof and match

  264.  #264Siena on July 8, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Thank you Echo/Lizzie,

    Deep sigh. You’re totally right, this is an old fear of mine coming up. It’s about me being with one lukewarm guy after another and not standing up for myself, and so feeling hurt again and again by bad behavior.

    I really want this healed. I don’t want to live with any old baggage from old bf’s. They’re gone, and I would like the baggage to be gone too.

    The triggers come up in the most unexpected places, too!

  265.  #265Siena on July 8, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Bren, I don’t know why, but that image of bringing a blanket to a movie totally triggered an ewwwwww feeling in me! That doesn’t even sound like fun to me, and I’m pretty adventurous! 😉

  266.  #266Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:00 am

    I feel annoyed by texting…a few are ok but that’s it! NO more setting dates through texts

  267.  #267Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:03 am

    2 nights ago this guy text me like 3 times and then he asked if he could call me and I was like Wahoo!! finally a MAN! and within a minute he was talking about sex and we talked about it for about 15 minutes and then I said I was feeling uncomfortable and could we talk about something else and he got totally defensive and asked what was wrong with talking about sex and I said nothing..but I don’t even know you…and I felt icky so I said we should talk another time and got off the phone as fast as I could….ewwwww!!!!!!
    RED FLAG warning!! It made me appreciate the slow movers…not that they are any healthier!! lol

  268.  #268Siena on July 8, 2010 at 10:04 am

    I don’t mind texting at all… I think the issue has something to do with how each person experiences the world differently.

    For instance, I’m a very physical person, and so I experience the world primarily through touch and taste. Others are more visual, and experience the world primarily through sight, others auditory and experience the world primarily through sound.

    An auditory person might like phone calls more than texts.

    I’m not very auditory, so I don’t really like phone calls and am totally okay with texts…

  269.  #269Siena on July 8, 2010 at 10:05 am

    (but I DO want to be called when I’m told I’ll be called hehe)

  270.  #270Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:06 am

    TallGirl10….thank you for sharing with me…I feel really supported…:)

  271.  #271Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:09 am

    yes.. I like all of it…a balance would be good…a balance of talking, texting and in person!!

    But for me i’ve realized if I do too much texting or talking before meeting I create an imaginary person that the “real” person can never compete far anyway

  272.  #272Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Siena, RE: #262 – About old baggage, this was also what Rori said to me in the same message as the one I just quoted: “This is a step-by-step, baby-step process that will unearth all your old traumatic reactions…and bring you greater peace and happiness faster and in a fun way if you approach it that way.”

  273.  #273Siena on July 8, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Thanks Bren… 🙂 This kind of sucks! But I’ll try to look for the fun in it.

    He just texted me that he’s missing me. Sigh. I feel better. I’m so easy to please!

  274.  #274Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 10:23 am


    Thanks for sharing your profile too! You’re very pretty! Anyone else want to share? 🙂

    I just discovered something…you get more responses on a dating site if you frequent it! I am logged on since I’ve been looking at your profiles, and I got two emails from men just in the last hour after not getting any in over a week! 🙂

  275.  #275Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 10:24 am


    You’re welcome! You’re fine for being pleased with a text that he’s missing you! So there, he just made up for not calling you. Maybe this is one you SHOULD let go.

  276.  #276Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:26 am

    So I was able to look at Brenda’s…hot mamma in the red “siren” outfit!!
    and Lizzie’s too…both great! ladyescapade wouldn’t let me in…I think if you put only men can contact me it wont let other women view you…so you probably can’t access mine either 😉

  277.  #277Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:37 am


  278.  #278Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Do you guys think it’s too harsh for when LD texts me next (I know he will) to say
    I feel annoyed and turned off by only texting, I would feel happy to talk and meet in person…what do you think?

    I have written down SS suggestion…which is way nicer

  279.  #279Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 10:55 am


    Here are some feeling messages I saved from earlier on the blog about too much texting:

    I need a bit more contact than we’re having, and it doesn’t feel good to ask for it. I’m not sure what to do so I don’t feel taken for granted. What do you think?

    It feels nice to hear from you; I prefer we talk in human, what do you think?

    Thanks for the message – I have decided to give up text-messaging – I like you and feel better when I can talk with you.

    Thanks for the text – just not the same as great conversation up close and personal! What do you think?

  280.  #280Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 10:57 am


    What I did with text man which worked really well:

    He texted me, I respond, he texts me again, and I tell him to give me a call when he has time.

    Worked like a charm, and showed that I wanted calls.

    In fact, even thought the man broke my heart kind of, he was only calling at the end.

  281.  #281Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 11:02 am


    He’s on phone with me right now. and what you said is completely true. that’s what happens in gold hall. we get seat in back with a blanket. i have been there with my ex.

  282.  #282Laughing goddess on July 8, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Awww, I feel so touched right now. I was just reading the above post about saying I love you and then I walked in to the kitchen where LI was making us tea and he said…

    “you know what, I just realized something”

    and I said, “what?”

    and he said, “that I love you so much!”

    I felt so melty and loved and sweet. We tell each other “I love you” often but this time it felt extra sweet…maybe because he said it first.

    Mmmm, I feel happy.

  283.  #283Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Thanks for those suggestions…I’m going to write them down so I don’t have to go searching…

    Tallgirl…is that all you said….give me a call when you have time…nothing else?

    I like the last one Bren…thanks for the text…but you are going to have to do better…jk!

  284.  #284Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 11:08 am

    This day is already going by too fast!!! I need to go get some things done!! But I don’t wanna…i just want to do NOTHING!!!

  285.  #285Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Laughing Goddess I feel happy FOR you 😉 that’s a happy story!

  286.  #286Dan_Brodribb on July 8, 2010 at 11:12 am

    “Did you tell them:
    A. It took a month to get together?
    B. He kind of stood you up?
    C. He texted you and then never responded to your responce?”


    I missed this. If that’s what’s happening, you deserve better.

    If you’d feel better meeting him in person instead of texting, I don’t think it would be too harsh to let him know that. In fact, I think it would be a really good idea.

    Good luck

  287.  #287Tallgirl10 on July 8, 2010 at 11:13 am

    No, I would respond to whatever the chat was about and then say to give me a call when he has some time. I really don’t know that it has to be as complicated as a feeling message.

  288.  #288Dan_Brodribb on July 8, 2010 at 11:14 am

    PS – Brenda gave some great examples. The second one felt best to me

  289.  #289Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 11:34 am


    It feels nice to hear from you; I prefer we talk in human, what do you think? When is our wedding date? LOL!

  290.  #290Siena on July 8, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Laughing Goddess, it feels great to hear that! When’s your wedding date!?

  291.  #291Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Brenda you are cracking me up!!

    Thanks for everyone’s support!

  292.  #292Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Obviously I’m still attracted to unavailable men… steps….just when I feel that I’m healing…lol

  293.  #293Laughing goddess on July 8, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Thanks Jilly and Sienna!

    No wedding date yet. We’ve only been dating seriously for four months and I feel very satisfied with how he is treating me. I feel better about not rushing things and getting to know him. I feel calm, and confident. I don’t even feel attached in the sense that if it doesn’t work out, I trust that there are lots of beautiful, amazing men out there and I know I will easily magnetize another to me. This is new for me and it feels really good!

  294.  #294Laughing goddess on July 8, 2010 at 12:04 pm


    Are you interested in this guy?

    If I was in your situation, I would feel good using Brenda’s examples in #277. I wouldn’t feel good saying “give me a call”. It feels too masculine and directive for my personal taste.

  295.  #295mary on July 8, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Thanks for the feedback from 181. When I look at the guys who hang in there with me, the little things I do that are embarrassing, like these things, just fall by the wayside and are forgotten.

    Simply Shannon, I like the idea that I could just bring it up in conversation (if he ever calls me again…)

    and Daria, I’m working on loving my embarrassment.

    I love my icky feelings of mortification. without them i would feel less alive. without them i might do the same thing again. without them, and without the incident, i wouldn’t realize that this guy wasn’t really into me. and i might have gotten in deeper with him.

    thank you.

  296.  #296mary on July 8, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    i think that maybe the glue in the whole process of projection is the willingness to let my thoughts run wild and free. if i rein in my thoughts about a guy, and not let them attach him to every experience in the day, then every experience doesn’t remind me of him when i lose him, and i’m a little further down the road of my personal journey.

    and that’s why i need to keep the landscape changing. so there is less chance of projection and attachment. and less pain later.

    but am i missing something during this process of letting go?

    ??? !?

  297.  #297Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 12:08 pm


    My favorite music artist was on stage once when he forgot the words to the next verse of his own song. He laughed and said, “It’s not the first time I’ve been embarrassed, and it won’t be the last!” He started singing again and just went right on with the rest of the concert as if it never happened!

    I felt so impressed, and ever since then I try to take that (rockstar!) attitude! I’ve learned to not take myself so seriously.

  298.  #298dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    yay laughing goddess!

    i have made it clear clear clear that i am going to keep dating and expect formal courting until there is a ring on my finger. and he sticks around and just keeps stepping up. it’s..weird…i almost don’t trust him. lololol

    anyway, in other news, i was leaning forward to a new guy as an experiment, but he didn’t take the bait. the result of this is that I feel LESS ATTRACTED to him now, which is GREAT. i love myself and feel like i’ve made such progress that i feel turned off when a guy doesn’t show interest in me. yes! it took a couple of days of obsessive thoughts and then suddenly….BOOM…he aint even all that in my head.

    this is huge progress for me…HUGE

  299.  #299Dan_Brodribb on July 8, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Brenda – “When is our wedding date?”

    Good question. I have to mark it in my day-timer so I know what day to no-show and then text you “wat’s up?” like nothing happened 2 days later 😉

    This being a Toxic Love Messenger is a lot of work. Y’all should get me a card or something 😉

  300.  #300Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 12:15 pm


    Wow…. i feel so happy for you… such a cute and lovely stance…..

  301.  #301Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 12:18 pm


    It’ll be situation in place of stance…

  302.  #302Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Mary, I struggle with as well.

    if i rein in my thoughts about a guy, and not let them attach him to every experience in the day, then every experience doesn’t remind me of him when i lose him, and i’m a little further down the road of my personal journey.

    Even at the beach this week, I was reminded of A. I remembered the trip we took and the boat ride through the marshes. I felt MAD thinking about it because it messed with my head. I felt less joy because of that memory. I don’t know how to do what you’re asking either. It’s almost like I want the memory all over again WITHOUT him so that I’m free to recall it whenever I want. To have that memory be pure joy.

    It’s odd that you mentioned this because it is EXACTLY what I was thinking about this weekend.

  303.  #303dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Dan, clearly you’re just going through a hard time, which is why you offer crumbs…we should be compassionate and eat your crumbs with gusto, and maybe pick up your dry cleaning for you. it’s just…i love you. what do i have to do to get you to want me?

  304.  #304Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm


    am on phone with vishal and he is playing “my heart will go on”, and asking me to listen to it…. wow…..

  305.  #305Daria on July 8, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    dorothea hands off the man, pumpkin. any man coming thru here is mine!

  306.  #306Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Dan, The only kind of crumbs I like are the kind on apple crumb pie. Mmmhmm. I would feel happy and satisfied with an apple crumb pie…

  307.  #307Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Ankita: have you met Vishal before in person? I feel weird about all of this intimate conversation (and I don’t mean just the sexual stuff) when the “first date” hasn’t happened.

  308.  #308Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 12:42 pm


    Not yet….. we are about to meet…. earlier i was involved with other guys and he was on ship… its now we are seeing each other… earlier we were simple friends…..

  309.  #309Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm


    I dont intend to get anymore intimate with him before meeting him….. We are seeing each other from some 12-15 days….. but we aren’t in relationship yet…..

  310.  #310Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Dan lol….are you mocking me???!!!!

  311.  #311Daria on July 8, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    man… hands off DAN NOW!!!!!!

  312.  #312Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 1:20 pm


    297 LOL! You really should be paid for being on here as the representative of the male species! 🙂

  313.  #313Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Dorothea – 301…LOLOLOLOL!!

    Dan, pleeeeaaazzzzz show up on our wedding day?? Pleaaeaeaeaeazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzze?????

  314.  #314Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Hey guess what? I just spent the last 40 minutes on the phone with a cop! I met him thru one of the dating sites!

    He kept talking in a sexual direction, tho, and I redirected him about 4 times thru feeling messages, saying that I want to get to know a man on all levels, not just sexually. He said, “You sound so serious!” I explained it as tactfully as I could. We’ll see if it goes anywhere.

  315.  #315dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    i would never ever date a cop. i’ve rejected two cops in the past. i said “i would never ever date a cop.”

  316.  #316Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Dorothea, why?

  317.  #317Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Ugh heavens a cop – oh Brenda – that is difficult however you have a history of prisoners so you might find them the same. Who knows. I will neve ever date a Lawyer. Control freaks. I don’t do control freaks. Nope not for me. Although I did date a war-crimes investigator and he had power to arrest people anywhere in the country – very very interesting. The conversation would go like this:

    me: how was your day?
    him: top secret
    me: oh, so are you working on an interesting project?
    him: you know I can’t talk about it
    me: oh, so what else are you doing?
    him: not much
    me: OK then….can you give me something to work with here? we have already talked about the paint colour for the diningroom…how about drapes for your windows???

    Needless to say the sex was awesome, afterall we had NOTHING to talk about. LOL!!! I did learn a great deal from him – first one after 17 years married to a gay guy who never ever ever ever “wanted” me. Wooohooo! awesome.

  318.  #318Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Jilly –
    I love your profile – the guys in Utah are cute! Forget moving to Florida for a breeze = I am moving to Utah for cute guys….

    I am not sure what your age category is – check out: Time4our+me
    he seems like such a sweetie!

  319.  #319dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    I have a serious problem with law enforcement.

  320.  #320Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Jennifer!!! WE ARE MOVING TO UTAH!!! I don’t care about the heat any more; I am not moving to Florida because there is a breeze there! – check out the market Jilly gets to play in! seriously cute guys in UTAH!
    Pack our bags – to hell with being cannuks…. Utah here we come!

    (just getting ready for speed dating – I must get rid of the punchy energy so that I can lean back and be a siren you’all can be proud of…)

  321.  #321Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:02 pm


    Why, because of past experience? Have you dealt with cops who abused their power?

    It is kinda opposite of dealing with men in prison, but I can deal with it. I have worked thru my cop issues. I have an acquaintance who’s a cop (married) and it has really helped me to talk to him as a person about my issues about injustice and abuse of power.

    Lizzie, I feel sad for you. What a nightmare.

  322.  #322Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    I feel uncomfortable with new men who ask question after question. I feel on guard. I told him I like to get to know a man organically and just chat, but he didn’t get it. He kept asking me stuff like why my last relationship broke up, etc. I just kept saying I don’t feel comfortable discussing that. I will discuss it when I’m ready. But I guess that’s just some people’s relational style when they’re getting to know someone. I think I left him feeling like I was full of secrets and was too serious. I just don’t like people prying and going into areas where I don’t want to go yet, like the sexual level.

  323.  #323dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    it’s a combination of abuse of power, complicity in enforcing truly irrational laws, and very very negative experiences a few times with police not helping or responding because I was calling for help from a poor area.

    i watched cops mace unarmed protesters who were just kids here in denver at the DNC in 2008. after the aclu sued for records of the incident, it was revealed that undercover cops in the crowd of protesters actually instigated the macing, and were maced first.

    i will never ever date a cop.

    as an activist i have come home to boot marks all over my front door. i will never ever date a cop.

  324.  #324dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    that said, i really think we should pay police officers more. they take huge risks and we don’t give them any incentive to stay straight and avoid the temptation of corruption or laziness by not paying them a decent wage for them and their family to live off of.

  325.  #325mary on July 8, 2010 at 2:13 pm


    Simply Shannon,

    I was with my daughter today at a playgroup for babies, and it took me back to some traumatic times when my husband was doing drugs and not being a husband or a father. Instead of reliving those moments, I worked really hard to just be in the moment with my daughter, enjoy her experience, enjoy her baby, redirect my thoughts to some good times that I had when she was a baby and I came back to earth pretty quickly.

    If only I could do that with guys!

    Dating more than one helps me to not attach as quickly. I’m thankful for all this support around circular dating.

  326.  #326mary on July 8, 2010 at 2:14 pm


    Thanks Brenda!

    I like that.

  327.  #327Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    lets all run away from home, get a volkwaggon camper van and go to UTAAAAHHHHH – it is beautiful, Jilly will protect us from fire and probably all manner of other things, we can ski, and frolic in the snow, and flirt with really cute guys….

  328.  #328Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:23 pm


    I can definitely relate. I used to have major cop issues, because I used to be an activist, too, and I saw a lot of things that forever ended my innocent view of cops as nice men who would help you if you were down and out. Add to that 21 years of dealing with men in prison. I could literally write a book about all the injustices and abuses I have both witnessed and experienced first hand.

    I just have worked thru a lot of it and I also do my best to not stereotype and to see each individual as they are, not as the role they play.

    this guy’s coming on all sexual, and I just wrote him this feeling message:

    I don’t want you to think I’m a prude, and it doesn’t feel good to keep repeating I don’t want to just get to know a man on a sexual level. I’m not sure what to do so I don’t feel misunderstood as either a prude or as a cheap woman. What do you think?

  329.  #329dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    i like your feeling message. i wonder what he’ll say:)

  330.  #330Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Brenda – the other me would probably say something like this:

    Sweetie, you may wish to take care – I might call your bluff and then the performance expectations will be bigger than Mount Kilimanjaro. The other way to approach it, is to take some time to get to know each other, have some fun, see if there is any chemistry, and then sex could be awesome because there will just be fabulous energy and no completely unrealistic expectations that you can’t live up to. The choice is yours, make your decison wisely, I am game either way….


    I shall let you know how speed dating goes – clearly I am nervous

  331.  #331dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    *tap tap*
    f*ck the police

  332.  #332Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:35 pm


    That’s brilliant! I love it! I’m gonna use it! Thank you!!

  333.  #333Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Dorothea, You’re funny! If you and I were one-on-one and not on the internet, you’d see a side of me you don’t currently know! 🙂

    I can’t tell you all how much I appreciate having you all to collaborate with on here! Hmmm.

    And I just had a very nice IM session with Bill at work, and he initiated it! That felt good after this sex-pressuring cop!

    I felt all kinds of nervous on the phone, and I told him so. I think one of my biggest fears with dating a cop is if he decides he doesn’t like me, he could take it out on me by putting unjust legal problems on me.

  334.  #334Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    I mean, my nervousness just now was from trying to navigate his repeated return to sexual topics. This probably isn’t going anywhere, cuz I think he wants a booty call.

  335.  #335Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    I guess I am looking for a certain, unnameable (I accidentally typed that “nunnameable” at first 🙂 ) vibe or wavelength with a man. I found it in Ryan, and it was so beautiful, rich, and deep! I don’t expect to find it with too many men. If nothing else, I want a man to be sensitive to me, and this guy wasn’t. I just felt a redneck vibe of a man wanting sex.

  336.  #336Daria on July 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    aw man i felt impressed by Brenda’s original message… very real and feminine and non directive

    compared to the mt kilamanjaro one… that is funny, but its directing too

  337.  #337Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Sweet Brenda!

    Let it all flow through your body and out your feet dorothea – what a relief….

    Ok now – focus, stay true to day 4 of high protein diet and don’t cave for a wine spritzer…..focus and be a diva siren …..

  338.  #338Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    So I sent him Lizzie’s feeling message verbatim on the heels of mine. He writes back, “I like the first one”.

    That surprised me. I simply said, “Ok, what do you think?”

  339.  #339Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    I got a compliment from Daria! Thank you! I feel faint! 🙂 I love you, Daria!

  340.  #340Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 2:53 pm


    #335 – LOL! I love it! It is a nice, effective way of telling me to relaaaaxxx!

    So what’s your protein shaped like?

  341.  #341dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    ok…time to go to my second job…i feel excited that this company loves me so much…i feel wanted and needed. i feel effective. i feel intelligent. i feel like i have this secret skill no one knows about just by looking at me.

    i feel exhausted. i feel poor and helpless. i feel like a hamster on a wheel. i don’t want two jobs. i don’t even want one job, lol.

  342.  #342Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:07 pm


    i feel triggered and i dont usually pay attention to this one.

    like if someone makes a big deal about me doing something nice or paying them a compliment

    i feel like a pimp. i feel like “im cooler than you”

    and that also feels kinda removed… blocked out… and probably Lonely – that lonely that margaret paul talks about

    like… i feel underhandedly attacked – this happens with some girls i hang out with all the way…

    im usually cool in the pimp role, but then it feels not close to them, i feel unsafe as well like i have to maintain my top position and not like being loved and included

    fln weird here

    kinda mad




  343.  #343Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm


    I was telling you how I honestly felt. I often feel put down by you, and I was beginning to feel rejected by you. I felt honestly surprised and happy that I did something that you actually liked.

  344.  #344Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Bill at work had a nice IM with me and he invited me to sit in his building at an empty desk with my laptop tomorrow for a change of pace, cuz he knows I’m bored at my job. I feel good about that. He is a really warm-hearted man.

  345.  #345Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Dreaming Self

    By Ivanka Jankovic

    June 12, 2010

    There are many ways we hold back our dreams. Sometimes we are conscious, but many times we are not. We are doing that consciously when we rationalize and say:

    I cannot do that.
    I am too old.
    It is too late.
    It is pie in the sky.
    It is not that important.

    Subconsciously we hold our dreams back when there are deep unhealed false beliefs that are telling us that we have some kind of limitation. We are not good enough. We are not talented enough. It is not our time yet. Or we need to work very hard.

    We adopted false beliefs when we were very young. We expressed our dreams and visions freely, and instead of being supported we got squashed, judged or ridiculed by our caregivers, teachers or friends. They did not allow themselves to dream so they could not support us as well. Some of them got angry or sometimes very threatened by our wishes and dreams.

    Were you told?

    How you dare to ask for that?
    I do not have this and that.
    I had to give up so much.
    Who do you think you are?
    Stop dreaming. Hard work is the only thing that matters.

    This lack of support runs through many generations. Every family has a specific pattern.

    As children we had a choice to either pursue our dream and lose others, or forget our dream and lose ourselves. Most of us had to go with a second choice. We also had to swallow the pain that was inflicted on us at that time. And this is how our wounded self came into existence with a task to protect us from hurt, pain and heartbreak

    Once we silenced our dreaming self, also a source of our creativity and magic, it goes into hiding and stops sharing. This is the main reason why so many people say: I do not know what I am passionate about. What if I do not have passion at all? I do not know what brings me joy. What if I have to work really hard to figure it out?

    If you want to reconnect with your dreaming self you need intent and discipline. You must be willing to stop following dreams that belong to others. You must be willing not to fall under the spell of people who are telling you what you need to do and how. No matter how hard you try to follow what others are telling you still joy and magic will be lacking from your life.

    You must be willing to heal false beliefs and become an adult that the child needed to begin with. The adult who is loving, caring, attentive, gentle, curious, supportive and safe. Dreaming self will not show up after a few times when you were in a good and supportive mood. Remember it went hiding as there was no consistent support and safety. However if a loving adult offers a loving hand many times it will accept it. You will experience a boost of joy and good energy. Suddenly you will know what you like, and what you REALY like. There is clarity, and all kind of ideas pop up in your mind. You will remember all the things that you have put aside with explanation: Once time is right.

    As dreaming self becomes more visible in your life your wounded self gets triggered. Wounded self always believes it is not safe enough to truly express dreams. After all wounded self does not want you to get hurt, betrayed and disappointed again. It is loving adult’s responsibility to talk to this child and explain that time has changed. Dreaming self will not share dreams with others but with her and guidance, and both of them are so looking forward to hear them. This calms down wounded child. Yet she stays on guard just in case.

    Sometimes dreaming self needs your permission to fully shine the light out.

    Here is the permission that I have written to my dreaming self since she was still very hesitant to fully express herself.

    Sweetie you do not need to hide any more. Your hiding is over. I give you permission to be who you are. You can have anything you want. You can share anything with me. You can express your dreams. I will fully support you, and I will listen to you. I will be there every step of the way. I am interested to hear what you would like to share.

    It is your time now to play, enjoy and relax. You do not need to wait for anyone else until their dreams come true. You are not responsible if they get triggered and feel threatened. People who do not embrace their dreams, will always get triggered by someone who dares to dream and I will handle those situations. You just need to be fully yourself. Shine out your light. We are welcoming you. You are safe, loved and supported.

    When you reconnect with your dreaming self and start following your deep dreams Spirit steps up to help. You will meet people that are on a similar path and love to support others and their authentic dreams. And that is true magic.

  346.  #346Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Cop kinda fizzled out on the emailing, not really giving any kind of worthwhile response after all I’ve shared. Just, “What do you mean, what do I think?” I changed the subject altogether (it was getting like a beaten dead horse) and just listed some things I like. He didn’t respond in kind, just saying you know which one I like. Let’s see if he calls me now. I told him I’m free after 7 pm EST.

  347.  #347Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Lizzy….you think I’m beautiful? *blush* well, gee. Thanks *smile*
    I think you are beautiful too! YEah for red hair!!!
    Yes, let’s move to utah…but do mormons make out? I like to make out…so we gotta look that up. LOL!
    I changed my settings!! You should be able to see me now and email me. I Love your pics! You’re sooo beautiful too!!! I like the one in the car!!
    And SS thinks I’m beautiful too!?!?!? guys are soooo good for my little old ego!

  348.  #348Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Hmm… I feel angry and defensive. it’s not cool with me to take responsibility for people feeling put down or rejected.

    thats not what i want.

    reminder to myself that “put down” and “rejected” aren’t feelings just behaviors that can trigger feelings of ick blah anger

    yah i feel removed and unsafe i feel angry and powerful

    i feel the swelling of the volcano lava

    i feel not safe,

    i think im being treated unfairly and fakely im falling into peoples patterns


    i feel kind of good to be the on top one that gets fakely worshipped

    i feel distant tho and always on guard

    i feel like a king with fake admirers

    i feel mistrustful

  349.  #349Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    how are you guys seeing each other’s profiles?

  350.  #350Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:34 pm


    That article is awesome!! Thank you for sharing! I heard a comparable inspiration by Wayne Dyer recently on PBS called, “Excuses, Be Gone!” He turned the negative life statements like this into positive affirmations. He said if we had no fear to hold us back, who would we be?? What would we do?? It would be limitless! Really valuable stuff!

    I also like Tony Robbins on subjects like that. I have a huge CD set of his called “The Ultimate Edge”, which encourages you to work thru limitations that don’t need to be there to realize your dreams!

    Dream on, beautiful Sirens!

  351.  #351Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    wait a minute this is good.. someone telling me they feel angry with me is a good thing… k

    ok… im feeling defensive rite now i feel curious

    hey but u know what this isnt feeling good

    nto as good as my bliss building day is

    i intend this to feel good and i intend to learn

  352.  #352Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:41 pm


    If I was any more real with you I’d be slicing my heart open! Ryan seems to like that view, do you want me to do it for you, too? Now I feel angry. I am being gut level vulnerable honest with you and now you think I’m fake. Like I said yesterday, I feel utterly, totally, completely unsafe and intimidated to respond to any of your posts.

    I DO love you. I WAS surprised you paid me a compliment. If that is reason for you to get defensive then maybe it’s just one more reminder that all of us on here are in process, including yourself. I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

    By the way, we saw each other’s profiles by giving our usernames earlier in this thread for POF. I still love you, but I feel completely emotionally unsafe with you right now. TTYL.

  353.  #353Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Brenda…I can’t find the comment where you gave your username…can you do it again please?
    F*ck the police? Um..ok. I’ve got a thing for uniforms…so police, SWAT, Firefighters, Ambulance attendants, Military (combats not dress)…bring em ALLLLL on…yeah baby!!
    OOO…hormone fluctuation!
    What were we talking about?

  354.  #354Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    im still feeling confused and navigating my waters

    Brenda – my guess is you are being triggered by me and my comments. i was triggered by your comment. im processing . some of the things i am saying may not be directly related to you or your comment.

    i am feeling very slow moving in this water about my trigger

  355.  #355Brenda on July 8, 2010 at 3:48 pm


  356.  #356Daria on July 8, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    im feeling slow stuck in my jaw… hey you… yes.. i see you… hi baby… its ok… i love you… you are safe now… you can flow.. yes i know you feel soooooo very angry… its ok… now… its ok to feel angry… ill handle this for u ok… yes… ohhhh… whata beautiful baby… how does the baby feel… the baby feels numb? ohhh i love u… its good to feel angry… i love your anger yes… great job baby… mmm… that feels good to feel angry yes? good job… good baby … good baby… mmm… yes… great baby… yes … good job… what a powerful beautiful baby… what a wonderful baby for feeling angry… thats awesome to feel angry.. thank u… htank you for feeling angry… yes yum… yes… goood baby…yes

  357.  #357Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    You’re beautiful too!!! All us sirens is HAWT!!
    I like the one in the red with you hair up and allll that clevage!!!
    Yeah for cleavage!!!

  358.  #358Orna Walters on July 8, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Ah! So beautiful Rori.

    I really love this bit the most:

    “I didn’t just cancel out my entire programming and habits. I may have replaced them with much better skills and more awareness and knowledge and love of myself – but – those Nasty Voices and inner pressures are still THERE.

    They don’t go away.

    So – the trick here is to catch it when it happens.”

    THANK YOU for the reminder that we ALL “screw up” sometimes. 😉

    I spent so much of my life beating myself up when I messed up – for days, weeks, months, even years. Now I “catch myself” and most of the time I’m good with just the thought “Well, it sucks not being perfect!”

    The journey is about “catching ourselves” – earlier, and earlier and earlier. . . and sometimes. . .woops. . . f’d it up. Its not a “back to the drawing board moment,” I actually believe those moments are there to remind us of how much we’ve grown. To take a moment to have the gratitude for how far we’ve come. We have no Up without Down, Left without Right, etc.

    Thank you! You are an angel.


  359.  #359Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Yes yes yes…Lizzie and everyone else should move to Utah!!! lol..we would have sooo much fun!!! I’ll check that guy out and let you know 😉

    I have a date with pilot tomorrow night…I’ve told myself I don’t date pilots…but this one seems different…he’s from Brazil…yeah

    k i need to go through and read the posts…you guys have been busy in the last few hours!!!

  360.  #360Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    OMG….utah…here we come! FO SHO!!!

  361.  #361Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Jennifer…I wouldn’t go for the mormons if you want make out and sex lol there are plenty of non religious guys though!! well there are the ones “pretending” to be good…lol i’m going to go look at your profile!
    I’m a sucker for uniforms too!!!

  362.  #362Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    He said “be nicer” I feel triggered, I feel backed up against the wall and given an ultimatum, I of course feel fken furious and said No , I dont feel like “being nice” He said, I want a “girlfriend” who is going to be nice to me. uh yeah, I shouted in the phone ‘WELL GO FIND ONE THEN, CAUSE iM TRYING TO GET MY WORKOUT FINISHED AND I FEEL FCKEN FURIOUS. I hung up he called back like 10 times , anyway i finished my cardio, made the time quicker for me 🙂 he’s on his way here, I swear I’ll send him home packiing if this “be nice” comes up again. I didnt really say anything rude or arrogent in the first place, just that I was not going to his house on sunday, he wants me to play nice, I dont feel like it. I dont want to break up my week again, i really dont feel like going there blah. fck him! be nice grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

  363.  #363Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Goddessess don’t have to be nice…we’re goddessess.

  364.  #364Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I will have peace and serenity, I want to feel nice with nature 🙂

  365.  #365Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Brenda, SS, Tallgirl10 and all ladies

    I just got off the phone. I told Vishal that before becoming sexually involved i wanna know him better on all other levels. Just coz I’m attracted to him doesn’t means he’s the right guy for me. I wanna know him better to first confirm that we are right for each other. I don’t wanna make a decision i might regret later. i want li’l time.

    Vishal said, ” You can take as much time as you want. I respect your boundaries and won’t ever force you. I’ll consider myself the luckiest person in world if we are meant to be each others…”

  366.  #366Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    fcken right jennifer 🙂 be nice grr, wanders off mumbling to self, crazy…

  367.  #367Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    jennifer it won’t let me look at your friggin profile WTF!!! I don’t know if it’s me or you 😉

  368.  #368Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    I just got Reconnect and Heart Connection Tool kit…anyone want to come over and watch with me??? 😉

  369.  #369Daria on July 8, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I’m looking at you guys! I signed up now talking a whole lot of “sass” lol

    Jennifer which one are you – like the sn… i can’t find ur comment with it

  370.  #370Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    anybody wanna buy a brother? I’m sellin I’ll trade him for a box of gobstoppers.
    Not only did he call me on my date with military communications guy cause he saw us out for icecream (he was drinkin and thought he’d be funny and tell me to put my icecream spoon down and lean in and kiss buddy). Now he says I have to get on this dating thing cause my eggs aint getting any younger…he thinks hes funny.
    Ok, half a box of gobstoppers.

  371.  #371Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    bad girl, nice girl grrrrrrrrrrrr, i was never a NIce girl, I dont know how to be a nice girl fck it, grrrrr i feel triggered, i feel furious, i feel like oooooooo,nice nice nice, polite , crazy thats what they are , just nuts, yeah nice, ill be nice, im a bad girl, im a bad girl , i love my bad messy girl 🙂

  372.  #372Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    my name is Lady Escapade…I’ll check my settings agian Jilly.

  373.  #373Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Nice girls get what they want, bad girls dont, hm or at least they have to be manipulative about it. or is the other way around. or wwere going to play that fcken game are we,

  374.  #374Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Jilly – you have to change your email settings from only males being able to email you to anyone being able to before you can look at ladies’ profiles.

  375.  #375Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    I can open my heart right? ok but i dont have to “be nice”

  376.  #376Ankita on July 8, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    I told him, “You know what? I have never trusted anyone before like I do you. I don’t know why, but I trust you a lot. I feel strange how everything changed. ”

    He, “I know. But this change feels good. The way you come close to me and share your feelings shows that you trust me.”

    I,”You know, I feel so intimate and connected with you now. It feels so good.”

  377.  #377Tina on July 8, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    IM going to be nice to myself and shower up, and find something to wear. later,,,thanks

  378.  #378Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Jennifer – lol! Sorry. I know you’re annoyed with your bro, but I am rotfl!

    Forget gobstoppers! Canada has the best candy bars! Could you drop some in colo on your way to Utah by chance? You might have to make a slight detour, but I would really, really appreciate it! Lol

  379.  #379Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Sweetpea….you can just have him. Frig.
    He’s good at yard work and stuff. Good with babies and old people…bad at social situations.

  380.  #380Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Jennifer – I think your reaction to it is cracking me up more than anything!

    … I could use some yard work though!


  381.  #381Daria on July 8, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    lol i cant write jennifer cuz i said i ocassionaly smoke

  382.  #382Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Ankita – that is awesome! That’s exactly what’s supposed to happen when you use Rori’s tools.

    Yay!!! Good for you!

  383.  #383Daria on July 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    I love the railroad track picture tho!

  384.  #384Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Jennifer/ Jilly – my comment got a lil buried. Did you see #372?

  385.  #385Jilly on July 8, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    yes..thanks sweetpea!

    Ankita…that’s so awesome

    Tina…eff being nice!! you know he loves it lol

  386.  #386dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    tina, i FEEEEL YOU GIRLLLLL omg

    forget nice. yeah, nice is nice…if i work in customer service and you’re shoppin in my store.

    but this aint retail and i’m not here to service nobody. for real.

    tonight i told LI to forget about it when he was late to pick me up for a walk home and i wanted to be home already. i could have been sweet about it but the truth is i felt turned off and taken from by his fumbling around. so i said forget it. and i took care of myself. i am a nice girl. just not all the time.

  387.  #387Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    ok, so …………um wow.
    This is suck-tastic.
    I went to look at the profile of military communications guy on eharmony and I can’t find it. It’s not in my matches and its not in my communicating section. So I guess that means he closed the match?
    This feels bad.
    This feels like rejection.
    This feels confusing.
    I thought we had a good time…well I did anyway.
    Um….wow, I kinda liked this guy..we seemed to click.
    so…I guess….um….ok.

  388.  #388Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I feel sad.
    I feel like I did something wrong.

  389.  #389dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    did you hang out with him? what if he took himself off because he wants to focus on you more?

  390.  #390Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    yeah, we had two dates. But if he wanted to focus on me more I feel like he would have emailed me back when I emailed on monday.
    Feels sinking in my chest.

  391.  #391Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Tina – I think it would be exceptionally wise for you to have a custom made bustier in red leather. I saw one I really liked but it was very expensive so I am thinking of getting one at this leather store that does stuff for fetishes. I don’t think I have a fetish (but who cares if I do anyway). As I was following a bit of your story, I think this good girl thing deserves a little surprise attitude – so my suggestion is to go off to a fetish store and pick up a fabulous bustier – red leather is what I want, and maybe a set of silk cattails. Then you can show him what a good girl you are. 🙂

    I am back from speed dating….OMG I am still laughing… was hmmmm…. well, I had no expectations and wanted to practice leaning back – I was a dismal failure at tools – I tried! The environment meant I virtually had to lean into the guy’s lap to just hear the creature. I managed to get in one question – what were you like as a kid – pretty pathetic answers – and they just don’t let go of what I do for a living. After, while chatting with the other ladies, I could understand why they wanted to know more about what I do for a living – two of the other women were on disability for stress, another one should have been she was so wired, another was so strange I was completely captivated and wanted to find out why she was the way she is…. I won’t do this again. And, I am so proud of myself, I canceled and closed my POF account – I can’t stand it any more. Oh what a relief!

  392.  #392Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Jennifer, this has me feeling so sad! My heart did a flip and I can feel the tightness wrapping around my heart. My thinking head says to go make a cup of tea and we shall chat. I am sending you a loving hug.

  393.  #393dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    oh jennifer, do you know…so many guys i met through dating sites and online dropped off the face of the planet because they ended up finding a girlfriend. they usually come back, lol!

  394.  #394Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    um, ok
    some wallowing then…
    cause this sucks.
    Why am I the girl who is so easy to walk away from? B and now this guy…totally different scenarios but still feels the same.
    on one hand I want to send a breezy little email and be like “sorry to see you closed our match on eharmony. Good luck”
    But on the other hand I wanna be like “hey..too bad you’re such a tool.”
    I will be doing niether. But feel like doing both.
    I must have some sort of man repelling vibe.
    Even the guy who messaged me on POF who was sooo self depricating..and I was all like…”I think you’re nice” isn’t emailing me.
    So, whatever…I’ve got one guy on my MSN who talks to me like everytime I log on for two seconds…asks me like two questions and then only says “cool” in return and thengoes quiet.
    Maybe I need a break or something…like Shannon’s man fast.
    I seem to be getting it anyway so might as well make out like it’s my idea…
    it looks less lewserish that way.

  395.  #395Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    maybe I LOAed this into being.
    I sometimes get an almost over whelming sense of lonliness……kinda randomly.
    And I feel like “there’s no one out there for me” when the lonliness happens. IT’s very visceral. So under LOA principle….thoughts with big feelings behind them manifest quickly…
    so maybe that’s what happened.
    I should totally book another appointment with the core belief lady.

  396.  #396Sweetpea on July 8, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Eh Jennifer – don’t give up yet. I had to go through my toads – guys I wasn’t really attracted to – learning how not to give. That’s all I did with them, practiced feeling messages, leaning back & learning not to give & not over-function.

    Then I moved on to the guys I was more attracted to and learned how to receive (Rori talked about this in a newsletter a week or two ago). The guys who email me now are getting better & better. Also, once my confidence started building, I went back in & rewrote my profile. I didn’t change much, I just made sure I was feeling siren-y when I did it concentrated on that vibe being there. I get tons more responses now. From a better quality of men. (Still some creepy losers too though – just not many).

  397.  #397Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Jennifer – going down the lewserish path is not a great idea.

    My experience with eHarmony is similar – a guy I met on there and saw for a year (and now do I ever realize I over functioned like you wouldn’t believe), did exactly the same thing! Just closed the account and NEVER called or anything – didn’t even send me an email to say – oh by the way, I don’t like you any more, you are dumped!). Even my kids, who didn’t even like him thought he was a scum-bag for dumping me by email. Anyway, 2 months later – he freaking came back! Then we did the FWB for a while and I got bored with sex with no emotion so it just ran it’s course.

    And the same thing just happened with my sister! Like WTF is right – how do guys do this?

    So, time to take myself off of all these sites. Even the guy who called me this morning and said we would have a date on Monday, hasn’t called back to tell me where, when, etc. etc. I don’t think he is going to call because he asked how old my kids are and that is a show stopper for almost all men. And that is just fine with me because he doesn’t work. That is a show stopper for me – I work very very long hours – normal men would not be able to handle it.

    So a long message just to say, you don’t really know what is going on with him; it is all about him and not you.

  398.  #398Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    I made a cup of tea. Sit Jen, we are hear for you.

  399.  #399Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    What is LOA principle?

  400.  #400dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Law of attraction = LOA

  401.  #401Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Law of Attraction Lizzie…….
    The idea that what you think about you bring about.
    But it’s more like what you think about with great emotion comes to you.

  402.  #402Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    I can usually work it pretty good…
    I was working in another town and focused on seeing a baby bear and did…
    and I was driving two nights ago and thougth it would feel cool to see a fox….and last night I did.
    So, I can make it work…but not in this area so far…which makes me wonder if I have some sort of subconcious anti-man vibe…
    which I would clear up with a trip to the core belief lady.

  403.  #403Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Maybe a dash of Tall Girl activity might be a helpful additon to your core belief lady. She outlined it way back at the beginning of this thread for me – three parts:
    1) identify three things you love about you and say them outloud – I decided to do 10
    2) I don’t remember what this one would be called – for me I am calling it the forgiveness and compassion internal conversation. The adult me is forgiven for not paying close attention to the needs of the internal child…kind of messaging
    3) visualizing what I want it to look like, feel like, be like (she described it differently and this is how I made it work for me)

    In three days, I actually feel differently and other people are responding to me differently. I suggest you give it a try. As you are a nurse, you can see fairly quickly the subtle nuances of how your colleages, patients, and the doctors respond to you differently. I find the changes subtle but with considerable positive energy. What do you think?

  404.  #404Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    I think I’m confused..
    number three…visualize what I want WHAT to look like?
    Core belief works alot with the inner child so since I’ve already had that the dialoging with her should be easy.

  405.  #405Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Visualize “the husband” in her case; I acutally work to visualize what I want my life to look like, feel like, be like. That does include the man. And I am getting clearer and clearer as to what I am looking for – and I am being more effective describing it to others. Now it is all about how I want to feel. When family guy asked me what my “list” was – I said I didn’t have a list, that it was all about what I wanted to feel, and that I want to feel WONDERFUL. He leaned right into me at that point, and said that is exactly what he wanted as well. It was a poignant moment.

    I have done the visualizing my life to look like feel like a number of times. It has carried me through horrific difficult situations over the past few years. It is incredibly powerful.
    How does this feel for you?

  406.  #406Jennifer on July 8, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    um….feels fine..
    I visualize lots of stuff….like I said..the bear cub and the fox and free dinners and the what not.
    This is why I think I may have a man-vibe issue…I have a hard time visualizing..
    Abraham says that if you can’t visualize then you havent’ gathered enough data to work with and you should go out into the world and gather more info about what you want…ie circular dating. I think the issue is when I go to visualize all I see is the shit i’ve been somewhere in here i keep expecting more…and low and behold…I get more.
    So I need more data about what i want.
    And I need to shift the “I’m gonna be alone forever vibe”

  407.  #407Lizzie on July 8, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    I feel you are on a wonderful journey Jen. I as well, and working on what I want. I am very very happy to have found myself on siren island – this feels good. Some of the feelings I am working on for what I am looking for – I am beginning to feel that some of these are experienced from the outside-in and some are inside-out. I am not sure if there are dependancies or not. anyway this is where I am so far:
    – wonderful; content, relaxed
    – being present and staying present
    – wanted, desired
    – believed-in, respected, trusted
    – calm, at peace, inner tranquility
    – confident

    I anticipate the list will grow a bit more before I am really clear. – I must go to sleep now.

    Be well beautiful Jennifer

  408.  #408Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Jennifer, my plan is to truly circular date for the free therapy. To gain some new friends and keep my expectations low for a romantic partner right now. I truly want to heal. It’s time. I’m done with this old self confidence crap I keep dealing with. Do I pray for my forever romantic partner? Yep… but I feel okay waiting for the right one and just getting to know some new people. I think Mary was the one writing about opening up to the experience of circular dating. And Orna wrote about timing with her now husband; that he had some things to work through before he was ready for a person like her. Or maybe going on a ManFast is the right thing for you too. I felt surprised by how quickly the month went by and how freeing it felt to not worry about dates. I dunno. I feel excited to date again now.

    I’ve got a date lined up with Mr. Fab Kisser Friday and then Saturday I’m going out with a another guy I dated once forever ago (who has texted me since then asking me out – no connection real for me). Just randomly asked me out again. I feel excited about both. And I’m having pictures taken tomorrow.

    Watch out world. Shannon’s back… [insert evil laugh here]

  409.  #409Rori Raye on July 8, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Lee – Welcome, and you have to talk with him – but differently…ask him what he sees for you, let him know he can take as much time as he wants – the “no girlfriend” speech, not being exclusive – you have many options – but foremost – you want to deepen the connection by sharing your heart – How about “I feel strong feelings for you and see a future for us, and I don’t want to be making a mistake imagining that I’m loved, too – what do you think?…Love, Rori

  410.  #410Rori Raye on July 8, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Pat – Welcome, and why do you think you’re so stuck on this man who’s making it so difficult for you to feel loved and secure? To take care of your part in this – at least get my ebook Have The Relationship You Want and make sure you’re not violating the 4 Rules, using Feeling Messages, and doing the Sensual Meditation…everything in the book is ESSENTIAL…Love, Rori

  411.  #411dorothea on July 8, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    huh. the guy i experimented with leaning forward…once i leaned back and completely forgot about him and his not responding how i wanted, detached from outcome, and…voila…there he is showing up on his own in my life.

    thanks rori 😀

  412.  #412Simply Shannon on July 8, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Crap. Forgot to write my main point.

    Needing more data is exactly where I’m at. Which is why I need to truly circular date and NOT be looking for a mate. (I can make a rhyme any ol’ time. 🙂 )

    I don’t have a good visual on what my “happy ever after” looks like either. I don’t have a clear goal in mind other than I want to feel safe and loved. I don’t want boring or settled. I want an adventurous life but with a safety net, like white water rafting with a vest. I want to be on the same path with someone else. Both of us pointed in the same general direction, encouraging each other as we go. Not just a cheerleader but a participant in my life. But I have no idea how that looks in a relationship. Or maybe I’m making it too difficult. That feels like too many things. And it feels too fluffy for me. I can’t picture what a man would be like he would make me feel those things.

    So far, the guys I still yearn for have been a) adventurous and sexy but a cheater (on me), b) a good guy and sexy but pessimistic and a cheater (in the past), c) funny and a good time, but a cheater (on me).

    Holy crap. All have been cheaters. What is that about? And all have had low self esteem (which probably caused the cheating).

    Yes, I need free therapy. 🙂

  413.  #413Amy F on July 8, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    It’s great you are taking care of yourself physically. I went on the Martha’s Vineyard Diet (detox diet) last summer and lost about 30 pounds. It has changed my life. I do Bikram yoga 5 times a week now and am in good shape. It gives me lots of confidence to get out there and CD.

    I look forward to hearing about your workouts!

  414.  #414Lee on July 9, 2010 at 6:05 am

    Thanks Rori
    Guess i have been putting it off because of the last time I brought it up, I got hurt so bad I guess with not the answer I was looking for, really though,” I Don’t know”, was never really an answer, and him saying that he was very “fond” of me, I really thought we moved past being “fond” of one another. We are exclusive, which was something that we both agreed upon last year before we had sex, and I am fine with that, I don’t want to worry about diseases and all, plus we are older, we’re both in our upper 40’s. Guess I should have mentioned that he has been married and divorce 3x’s, lol, me only once after a very long and exhausting marriage of 25 years.
    He has some issues about his past that he is trying to work on, and he did tell me a bit ago that he wants to be a better man and work on that. So that’s I guess a plus, I just guess I am looking for a tibit, something to tell me we are heading foward together, its only been a little over a year since we started dating, but I don’t want to waste anymore time if this isn’t going anywhere and be in the same boat 2-3 years from now. I would have thought he’d learn something about woman after 3 marriages, Lol! I’m guessing not, if here I am posting this

  415.  #415Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Jennifer, RE: #357 – Thanks for the nice compliments! Yeah, that pic with the cleavage was taken in 2000. My friend thought I needed to heat up my internet pics so she and her husband took a bunch for me and she gave me a make over! Fun stuff! LOL!

  416.  #416Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 8:11 am


    After seeing your pictures yesterday and then your over-the-top message that I liked so much, I have concluded that you somewhat remind me of Samantha in Sex & the City! 🙂

  417.  #417Lizzie on July 9, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Good morning Brenda – from the finally cooling down east…
    Thank you for your compliment!

    As for my protein diet – well, to begin with I have low blood sugar problems so I am always supposed to be on a high protein diet but I am an “addict” so this is really difficult – all carbs are my crack. Put a cake in front of me and watch it disappear. Naturally I do serious damage to myself and have gone into shock a few times. So self-discipline is a way of life. Interestingly, if I do well on the protein diet, within days I loose the desire to eat carbs. And that means all manner: bread, pasta, crumpets, juice, fruit, oatmeal, cereal, and on and on. As I am without kids for a little while, I can be really disciplined. To make it really simple I use a 3X or a 1/3 in-my-brain calculator and I do just fine with that. So, 1/3 grams protein to total carbs. Easy: 5 grams protein, 15 C carbs – I can eat that item. That then makes it possible to eat a brownie once in a while like this: 1 oz. cheeze is 8 g protein + 4 g. in the brownie + 35 cal carbs. = done, I can have a brownie if I eat cheeze right before.
    Now since I want to take off 1 inch from my waist – clothes are too tight – so maybe 2 inches if I am lucky but afterall I am in menopause so this is incredibly difficult – it is like a heavy person wanting to loose 30 pounds and all I need to loose is 7-8 pounds. So, I reduce calories intake to somewhere around 1,000 to 1,200 a day and at least 1/3 of it is protein.
    In life before menopause, I could do this in about 2 weeks. I will be lucky to do this now in 6 weeks.
    Oh, exercise is really important and is very much a part of my life – unfortunately I hurt my knee and can only walk at the moment. So I am walking at least 45 min a day to replace a 5K run 4X a week. I hope it is enough but don’t know yet. I am on day 5 and only cheated last night at Speed Date Nightmare with 1 white wine spritzer and a sliver of yucky pizza.

    Does that help? Does it make sense?

  418.  #418dorothea on July 9, 2010 at 9:21 am

    hey…sirens….i have a question…have any of you noticed your guys picking up your habit of using feeling messages? i feel a little put off when they start mimicking me which i guess is only natural if you talk to someone often enough, but i get mad like I’M THE GIRL, BUDDY! for now i am just outgirling guys who do this i guess…

  419.  #419Laughing goddess on July 9, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Dorothea: I have definitely noticed guys using picking up on my habit of using feeling messages and I have felt curious if it’s normal and natural or that they are feminine. It actually feels healthy to me for them to recognize their feelings and not be stuck in their thoughts. I feel challenged though to not jump into the masculine polarity and stay feminine…outgirl them as you say. 🙂

  420.  #420Laughing goddess on July 9, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Dorothea: I saw your posts about the guy that you were feeling attracted to and how you tried leaning forward and lost attraction and then you leaned back and he showed up. I had a similar experience lately with MM, that man that I was attracted to. It feels so funny and reassuring that you and I are in such similar places with our primary relationships and outside attractions.

  421.  #421Lizzie on July 9, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Dorothea – I had asked Family Guy how he communicated with his severely disabled daughter – his aswer: I just feel it.

    I found that interesting.

  422.  #422Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 9:58 am


    Thanks for sharing! What a challenge! I am just trying to lose weight. I like Medifast, which is high protein and very low carbs, but it’s kinda expensive. Have you tried Glucerna? If so, what do you think of it?


    I like it when a man uses feeling messages. It shows me he’s tuning into me, and that he’s showing his inner soft core. I also think this is a powerful form of conflict resolution, to say the least. In the past, I didn’t know how to confront people. So I’d bottle it until it blew! Now I can confront a supervisor, a cop, a judge, a thief, hey, anyone! Meaning, I feel like I am equipping myself with how to protect and assert myself in public, with anyone. I would welcome anyone to learn these fantastic tools, man or woman.

  423.  #423Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 9:59 am


    I am VERY happy for you how your communication went with Vishal! It feels very healthy! Congratulations, Siren! The tools are working for you!

  424.  #424Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 10:01 am


    I really appreciate your support! It feels FANTASTIC to be able to WALK FAST again! With no pain! So now my job is to get this flabby body in shape. This is the worst condition my muscles, etc. have ever been in after 6 months of very little exercise, due to pain. I feel thankful for a basically-healthy body that I can tone up!

  425.  #425Lizzie on July 9, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Brenda, I haven’t done any of the diet supplements or fake sweetners – I actually don’t need to because it all has to do with the 1/3 ratio. Timing is important as well – I eat large to small – huge breakfast to tiny dinner and rarely eat at night. I will have a handful of nuts from time to time – almond being the best. Because menopause really messed with my balance – a hot flash is a blast of adrenaline that freaks out the pancreas which then dumps insulin into the mix and bam, sugar drop so bad, loose all periferal vision, become incoherent, dizzy bla bla bla. So I always have a protein bar in my briefcase and car and as soon as I get a signal, I eat. And I know better to mess with it, it is a drop everything and eat protein experience. Peanutbutter is a life saver for me. It is all about choice and balance for example a glass of apple juice has the same glycemic rating as cake. So I would have cheeze and cake 🙂
    or a cup of black coffee and behave.

    I am off now til Monday.

  426.  #426Nikita on July 9, 2010 at 11:01 am


    Funny you asked about the feeling expressions from men…..I told my LI I wanted to feel special and loved when he was busy coercing me into something….his eyes lit up and said “yeah, I want To feel special and loved …..”

    I was reading in bed and he wanted my attention 😉 ….my full attention….

    I remember reading somewhere that as women we are the bridge -to emotions for a man, maybe that’s where the thrill comes from….if a man is the head and the woman is the heart in a relationship perhaps he’s living vicariously through us and our expressions….I’m feeling a little distracted right now but do you understand what I’m trying to get at ?

  427.  #427Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 11:47 am


    I like that! Rori said when we open our strong inside and show softness on the outside, it helps a man feel safe to open his strong outside and show his softness on the inside.

    It’s a lot of helping a man to feel emotionally safe, when most men have been taught it’s NOT safe to open up emotionally.

    I got a kick out of it last week when I attended an award ceremony for my friend’s 13 year old boy for a mechanics class he took. He said sarcastically, “My guidance counselor would say, ‘How does it FEEEEELLL to receive this award!’ I hate that! Why does everything have to be about how I FEEELLLL!”

    I told him the basics that generally women have an easier time opening up their feelings, but that it’s healthy for a man to learn to open up his. Then I asked, “What do you think about receving the award?!”

    He said, “It’s cool. I really liked the class and I want to take more like this!”

    Anyway, a bit of a tangent, but I thought it was cute that he felt uncomfortable with expressing feeeeellllings!

  428.  #428sofie on July 9, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    My, my oh my! Only my second trip to this love buffet and I feel like I know many of you here: Daria, Jennifer, Lizzie, Tall Girl, Dorothea, Brenda, Mary, Jilly and LGoddess (and DAN?!?) …. all of you offer, share, inspire, teach, amuse and muse me — authentically & humourously — to the point that the original jist of this thread is …. what?

    “Never say I love you first.”

    I thought back (waaay back) to high school and how the short guys were always the ones to follow me around, carry my books home after school, while the boys I was attracted to seemed not to notice me except as a classmate or worse, with wary trepidation (well, I AM Scorpio). Several years & a divorce after HS, I returned to west Texas from
    Miami and ran into two of these former love interests. I was stupefied at what I heard:

    “I always had a crush on you and wanted to ask you out.”

    “Why didn’t you? I had a crush on you, too!”

    “You’re so beautiful and I always believed alot of the guys were calling you first, that I had to wait in some kind of line.”

    “So we both sat home on Saturday nites, pining for what could have been? What an utter waste! I didn’t call you because this wasn’t done in the Sixties. Had you manned up and shown me one crack of the light within you — steeled yourself for potential rejection — I would have bridged the gulf and met you halfway.”

    “God! I didn’t know. Well …. will you go to dinner with me now?”

    I just married, for the second time.

    Boy! Gotta love those short boys! Now there are some real huevos, know what I mean?

    But I AM worth the climb up. I just get tired of the hangers-on who just don’t get it — one guy has been after me for 8 yrs! And another? Well, he got away. Mercifully.

    And I’m weary of boymen who want their cake both ways: They want to be allowed the freedom to be their inconsiderate selfish little boy selves (“I’m just a simple man living a simple life.” Eyeroll here.), itinerantly, with its implied slide on responsibility for words and actions, or lack thereof. All the while, demanding a man’s respect.

    Respect this! I say.

    I claim my freedom to to fly! To destinations of my choosing, yearnings of my heart and spirit. I want to go feral…

    I want to be free of headgames and countless hours reading these blogs, deciphering, dissecting, analyzing …. what bullshit! He’s watching sports!

    When my big fat calico wants love, she puts a paw on the keyboard and looks at me directly. She’ll slide her head between my arms, asking affirmation of the love she gives me. Her love is lived in the Now, authentically, without second- and third-guessing. Yes, she experiences rejection but, still, comes back.

    Even so, her behaviour is manipulative, learned and designed to get what she wants.

    Saying “I love you” to another with the expectation of the same reciprocated is …. well, it’s manipulative.

    Should you say it first? I don’t know. Go with your gut. If something feels uneasy, queasy or freaky, back off.

    I do know their lean-back looks much better than mine. I’m thinkin’ I’ma goin’ thataway. Yep.

  429.  #429Jeannette on July 9, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Guys, do you believe in birth charts and what they have to say about people matching up?

  430.  #430Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Shannon, I felt very interested reading your update and feel curious about the “cheater” thing!

  431.  #431Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    It feels like I have gone through a major transition.

    I am now attracting a bunch of guys who I feel attracted to! Yay!

    Tonight I have a first date (dinner) with a man I will call Mirror Man. He is a remarkably clear example of CD as therapy and men as MIRRORS — ALREADY! and I haven’t even met him in person yet! Here’s the scoop:

    He started emailing me from a couple days ago. I was immediately attracted to him, because he is the type I like — and he reminded me of the good parts of TN man (kinda the same look too). We hit it off well in emails, and at one point he wrote, “You seem like a female version of me.”

    That felt cool, cuz I like myself and have felt that a good match for me would be a male version of me! (I’ve thought, sure, I can handle a guy who has MY weaknesses and flaws. Piece of cake. Lol.)

    So last night we talked on the phone for the first time. And I did not like him as much on the phone! But I did say yes to dinner for tonight. Even though I felt kinda disappointed.

    So I asked myself, What came across on the phone that kinda turned me off?

    Well . . . I got the sense that he tries to be cool and confident but is actually kinda over-sensitive and defensive.


    That’s ME!!!!


    The funny part too, was when I told my 20 yo son this part: “I get the sense that this guy tries to be cool and confident but is actually kinda over-sensitive and defensive.” — my son immediately said, “You mean like you?” !!!!!

    I said, “Yes!”

    My son said, “Wow, you finally admit you are over-sensitive and defensive!”

    I said, “I’m getting better though. I noticed I was a lot better than usual on vacation [with family of origin last week].”

    My daughter said, “I noticed that too — you were MUCH better!”

    Yay me!!!

    And now . . . tonight’s date . . . with Mirror Man . . .

    I’m thinking that simply NOTICING that he is mirroring that part of me will help me to heal it.

    Also, loving and accepting that part of me will be good for ME and will also keep me open to loving and accepting (and receiving from) HIM.

    So, at first, after the phone convo, I was like Eww, I don’t really like this guy. This will be a rotten date.

    Then I realized, Oooh, he really IS like me — including the parts of me I don’t like! This can be a GOOD date — loving MYSELF by loving and accepting what I see in the mirror.

    So now I feel nervous and excited and adventurous.

    And AMAZED at how clear this particular mirror is!!!

    And GRATEFUL for this opportunity to grow and heal more parts of me.

    This encounter has really clinched the whole concept of CDing as free therapy for me!

    I would love to hear any other ideas for making the most of this mirror tonight! Thanks!

    Love you all <3

  432.  #432Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    The wonderful thing is — if I had NOT realized that he is mirroring a “yucky” part of myself — I would have gone on the date and had sort of a rejecting attitude toward him from the get-go! — not realizing that I was really rejecting a part of ME that I don’t like!!!

    Having this awareness ahead of time is so exciting!!!

  433.  #433Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm


    That’s a beautiful piece of writing! That would look real good in a Women’s magazine as an article!!

  434.  #434Siena on July 9, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    yay Lucy! That’s AWESOME! And that’s exactly what CDing is! I felt so great reading your posts! yayayayay!

  435.  #435Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 1:18 pm


    That’s some awesome work! I so like this idea of approaching dating as therapy. It takes the pressure out of it for me.

    So far the cop is copping out, just saying one-line emails like pretty good, not much happening. No answer to you, buddy. Call me if you want to be a man!

    But just talking to him on the phone yesterday for our introductory talk, I realized how much I’ve changed from the way I felt and talked to men before Ryan. And Ryan was total therapy, in conjuction with the multiple relationship seminar CDs I listened to last year, over and over!

    I felt far more vulnerable than I expected I would. I felt guarded. And all that felt good, because it showed me I am taking care of myself much better, not just letting any old man rush into my life. I’M doing the choosing. These may be obvious skills to most women, but they are fresh to me.

    I feel so much more confident, too, in the midst of my vulnerability, because, even tho I still feel clumsy at using Rori’s tools, I know what to say and what not to say. I felt like I was the experienced one while he was the rookie. He didn’t know how to talk to me like a lady. He kept trying to bring out the “naughty” side of me.

    I am really ready to say next unless he surprises me by treating me like a lady and asking me out on a respectable date. That feeling of desperation and neediness is gone!

  436.  #436Siena on July 9, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Lucy, I’d feel interested in knowing what created the shift for you. I can totally hear the shift in you, and it feels good to hear, because the whole time you were talking about not finding men you were attracted to (and having the 25 year olds writing you), I was feeling frustrated FOR you, because I know that attractive men are out there…

    Anyway, I’d love to hear what created the shift!?

  437.  #437Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Ha-ha! I feel goddessy! Cop just emailed me, “Boy, you’re quiet today.”

    I wrote, “I didn’t feel anything to respond to.”

    I feel happy! I never handled men like this in the past! Leaning back and not overfunctioning is yummy!

    Speaking of yummy, you all know I’m a compulsive overeater, so I spose there’s no shame in saying I keep noticing the word “cake” pop up in so many of your posts the last couple of days! Makes me want cheesecake, and makes me wanna call Sweetpea cupcake! LOL! 🙂

  438.  #438Siena on July 9, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    “I’M doing the choosing. These may be obvious skills to most women, but they are fresh to me. ”

    hehe Bren, not so obvious as you would hope and think!

    I love your post, I can FEEL the self-respect oozing out of you… you go girl!

    And BTW, someone mentioned Bikram yoga earlier. If you can find a studio near you, it is the ULTIMATE belly buster, and I love it! I do it several times a week, and it sheds pounds fast, as well as helps me balance my emotions. It’s awesome!!!

  439.  #439Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Thanks, Siena! I really appreciate your encouragement! Yes, I am definitely feeling that shift take place! It helps me tremendously to feel how you all think and feel about men and self and all that is related to HAVING THE RELATIONSHIP YOU WANT! 🙂

    It pulls me out of my tiny circle of experience and I am benefiting tremendously from all of your wealth of experience, wisdom, and knowledge! This island is like intense therapy to me! I feel eternally thankful to Rori and each of you!

    And I hear in the back of my mind in one of Rori’s CDs, her saying, “Bigger, bigger, bigger!” I get out of my mind and heart and enter into yours and into the Universe and into all the possibilities out there that I used to think I was unable to attain!

    I can be and do who I choose to be and do!! No limitations! I am free!

  440.  #440Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Brenda, I feel SO SO PROUD of you!!!! <3

  441.  #441Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Siena, good question! I don’t really know the answer except that I have just continued to do the tools to the best of my ability . . . focused on telling the truth (with kindness) to men I’m not interested in for whatever reason (including their young age!)

    Also, on vacation with my parents and sis and her family, I had many opportunities to put into practice (and test) my emerging awareness, presence, calm response to “triggers,” and particularly not internalizing shame (that has been HUGE for me all my life and ironically, TN man was instrumental in leading me thru healing that — and I saw the fruits of it on vaca with family of origin).

    So, basically, I’m in a better place emotionally and spiritually, and am maybe thus attracting men who are also in a better place.

  442.  #442Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Thanks, Lucy! I am happy you are in a better place, too! Siren Power! 🙂

  443.  #443Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Oh, the other thing, Siena, is that all these new men are outside of my county. Around here, the guys are all what I would call Northern Rednecks.

    On Wednesday I had lunch with the first guy I have gone out with who I was actually attracted to — the Sculptor who was in my area as a semi-finalist to present a proposal for a public sculpture — and he lives four hours away (same city as TN man) — so it may not work out with the distance — however it FELT SO GOOD to finally be with a man who was fascinating and attractive to me!!! — and if he wins the job he will be traveling here frequently, so maybe….. But it felt great no matter the outcome…

  444.  #444Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Here’s an update on Bill at work…

    Last week I experimented with being a rockstar diva and I flirted with him outrageously. He simply said, “U flirt u!” and let it go at that. I felt very vulnerable, naturally.

    This week I decided yo, if dude doesn’t step up, I’m going to relegate him to big brother status, and I just started to treat him as I would a brother. I said, “You got a heart of gold” if I felt like it and “You’re so sweet!” if I felt like it. I just kind of turned off my romantic vibe, even tho those statements could be considered flirting. I just wanted to be able to relax around him, so I did, and saying those things was just me.

    Yesterday (Wed) he started a chat with me on (work) IM, and he invited me to spend the day today in his building (a 3 minute walk from my building) with my laptop. So I’ve naturally had more interaction with him today and enjoyed it.

    He invited me on a coffee break with two other coworkers, too. In the past, he had talked about renting a backhoe to finish a French drain in his yard. At that time, it got into outrageous joking around (which our coworker started) about him hiring a “ho”!

    Back to today, he mentioned to the coworker he wasn’t able to rent the backhoe, that the guy never came out. I said with a big grin on my face, “What?!?! You’re not even able to hire a ho??? What a loser!”

    It was getting funnier by the second when he and the other two employees chimed in. I innocently asked, “What’s the state where they grow potatoes?”

    Bill said, “Idaho.”

    I said, “Yeah, don’t forget that!”

    I had to explain to him he had just said, “I the ‘ho’.”

    LOL! I had a lot of fun teasing him. Other than that, I leaned back, just staying mostly silent. I felt good about it, and I felt really comfortable with him.

  445.  #445mary on July 9, 2010 at 8:56 pm


    How was your breakfast (break – fast!) with Mr. Fab Kisser?

    and welcome back to the “out there!”

  446.  #446mary on July 9, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Brenda, that sounds like a fun exchange with Bill!

  447.  #447sofie on July 9, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Brenda, thanks mucho for the word-up on my post. I feel the excitement here as y’all are honing your skills and getting back in the race (Frank Sinatra’s “That’s Life” comes to mind here).

    I remember this excitement — want to feel it again — but I’m not ready. I’m still processing a 5-year relationship with a much younger man (14 yrs.) that ended fifteen months ago. I plunged head-over-heels; B said it was the same for him, but we know words and actions are two different animals, don’t we?

    Well, I said after the previous one I would never go with a younger man again, then remind myself about the never-say-never rule. Ignore a few red flags, burn the rest and Lose Yourself (eminem) in the moment and the passion, right?

    Wrong! I can’t afford another lost cause — physically, financially, emotionally. I know I should be out there, meeting and dating and moving on. But I’m just not ready. Feel like I need to get my personal shit together first.

    I’m not interested at all in the strays who hang around, thinking because B’s gone I’ll give them the nod. This smacks of “I don’t want to belong to any club who’ll have me as a member”, but I don’t want to bed any of the men who want me.

    When I recall events and situations in the rollercoaster affair with B, and what I should have said, how I should have damn well responded, I wonder if Rori’s tools could have produced a different outcome. They certainly couldn’t have hurt, but it’s all speculation now ….

    Some things and some people are just never meant to be, now matter how we wish or will them so.

    A little poem:


    all the needing and
    all the pleading
    all the loving and
    all the leaving
    all the analyzing
    and philosophizing
    won’t change the fact
    you’re just another gnat
    trapped in the morass
    pounding sand
    up your ass.

    Wish I could feel the prom-nite excitement generated here by all of you.

  448.  #448Daria on July 9, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    lol! ui ifeel so good and giddy watching the lil snippet of Angelo flirting with Tamisha on Top Chef.

    Tamisha : after that what are you gonna do

    Angelo: pff … YOU!


  449.  #449Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 11:12 pm


    You’re welcome! Are you a professional writer? You read like one! I was in a relationship with a baby 15 yrs younger than me. I love it that he turned me into a cougar!

    Hang in there, it gets better!

  450.  #450Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    omg im getting what i want and i feel giddy and nervous!

    i was jus thinking how fun it woudl be for this one guy — second friend of Getrite man, to come pick me up … tho he doesnt drive

    and now,

    first friend of getrite man called me, and he wants to pick me up, in an hour, has somewhere to take me so we can chill and get to know each other, and im feeling like whoa nervous

    and i feel guilty towards getrite man cuz i got texts and voicemails from him like

    ff them and if u wanna hang out with them whatever ff uu

    and they tried to steal my videocamera, and blah blah

    but just an hour ago he was mad so he was sending me f u b### texts..


    i feel sad and scared a lil bit

    but i am getting what i wanted

    thsi friend is SO handsome and drives a BMW

    i really like Getrite man and i KNOW he likes me, but his behavior is NOT what i want in many ways

    he Purposely doesn’t treat me as his girl, won’t take me out, wants to kcik it as friends…

    so when my heart was feeling icky with him, i feel ignored together…

    i decided im gonna treat him as a friend as well, so i do, thus i flirted with his friends and now they like me, he Finally got mad over something that wasnt even to really get mad about

    i feel sad and sorry for him, he’s hurting his feelings, i know

    my girl said he looked like he was going to cry, then he expects to have sex, i told him i dont feel close and happy and i dont want to do it when i dont feel that way



    i feel weird now

    focus on me

    me me

    i want to talk to him about it, like front page post or something, it doesn’t feel cool to be around him most of the time, but i feel such love for him and i feel fun every now and then,

  451.  #451Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I’m definitely navigating this flirting with friends thing nicely and better than before tho

    ohhh i feel sad thinking of Getrite man, i feel guilty

    and i feel afraid under that

    I LOVE him and want him to be happy

    and to do that i am NOT going to caretake him I will BE REAL and communicate clearly and openly with him

    it would feel good to communicate with him about this and be heard

    i feel a lil at a loss

    i will drop this ball and chain now for him to pick up

  452.  #452sofie on July 9, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Thanks again! Haven’t sought publishing, but I write every day so, yes, I’m a writer. B is also a writer; just published his second book of poetry.

    I know it gets better — that everything is, after all, only temporary. I’m just not ready for this temporal malaise to morph into Next. When that time comes, speed up or get outta my way!

    Pass the tequila.

  453.  #453Simply Shannon on July 10, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Woahhhh. Lucy, what you wrote about that guy being a mirror made me realize how much Mr. Fab Kisser is a mirror of me. Wow. Ouch. My heart hurts all of a sudden. Burning radiating heat from my chest. I feel sad.

    I do accept him for him (so accepting my dark parts too). I feel compassion and empathy. But I don’t feel attracted to him. Scratch that. I feel attracted to him but not in a “I want to be with you forever” way. He wants me forever. He’s very clear. No ring but I think if I gave him any indication that I would say yes, he would definitely ask.

    I have a wall where he is concerned. I feel unheard. He knows how much my faith means to me. And yet I don’t feel what I need here.

    I’m not going to force this or think about it too much. I’m going to circular date. He knows and he’s accepting it for now.

    Lucy, how did your date go? What was your mirror experience like? How would I heal what I’m seeing reflected back to me?

  454.  #454sofie on July 10, 2010 at 9:37 am

    This self-reflected mirror-image angle on chemistry & universal laws of attraction is intriguing, one I keep visiting again and again. It is my Ghost of Christmas Past — marked here, in the Now, by stone and epitaph.

    Mirrors for Princes — From Wikipedia
    The Mirrors for princes (Latin: specula principum, German: Fürstenspiegel) refer to a genre – in the loose sense of the word – of political writing during the Early Middle Ages, Middle Ages and the Renaissance. They are best known in the form of textbooks which directly instruct kings or lesser rulers on certain aspects of rule and behaviour, but in a broader sense, the term is also used to cover histories or literary works aimed at creating images of kings for imitation or avoidance. They were often composed at the accession of a new king, when a young and inexperienced ruler was about to come to power. They could be viewed as a species of self-help book. Possibly the best known (European) “mirror” is Il Principe (c. 1513) by Machiavelli.

    These texts were a “mirror” whereby a young prince could assess his perceptions and actions, a checks-and-balance. And so it is that our daily interactions with others serve as our personal mirror.

    Carl Jung said “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

    It seems that what we most detest — or like — in others is what we observe in ourselves. It is by knowing ourselves (and being true to ourselves) that we improve our relationships.

    So it’s an interactive crapshoot, a sort of Catch 22. Because it means that the object(s) of our affection are similarly inclined, sensitive to our strengths and weaknesses ….

    “The eyes are the windows to the soul” is a two-way mirror. In that our mouths are more often directly connected to our guts than our intellect, our impulsive “feeling” words can be intestinal toxic waste to the other’s ears.

    Hold your head up (Uriah Heap), Goddesses, and don’t forget your pearl-handled mirror.

  455.  #455Orna Walters on July 10, 2010 at 10:50 am

    I use this idea of a Mirror a lot in my coaching. I think the thing to remember is that others and the world around us are not seen as a direct reflection, but rather a “Fun House Mirror” with parts distorted.

    Hope this helps!

    Big Hug,

  456.  #456Simply Shannon on July 10, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Ugh. This mirror thing is making me feel sick because it is pointing right back at me. It’s illuminating a bad feeling.

    I feel unworthy of this faith that I have. I don’t feel honest about it. I feel judgmental of my own faith. I don’t “do” enough so I feel unworthy. I don’t read my bible enough. I feel lust a lot. I sin every day.

    Gosh, Mr. Fab Kisser is an exact replica of me. He’s a great kisser (me too), he leads with sex (me too), he has faith but doesn’t do the work (me too), he’s self centered (me too).

    Ugh. What I want is someone who can make me do better. For so long I’ve dated men that I needed to help. I want someone to encourage me to do more, be more. I don’t want someone I have to help.

    I’m putting it out there that I need help, that I don’t believe I’m capable of doing this on my own. But that’s not really true. I know I can do the work. I’m putting things in place in my life to help me get there. I just don’t want to do it alone. And I don’t want to be anyone else’s crutch. I have a hard enough time staying above water without having any extra weight holding onto me.

    Can someone read these and tell me what I’m missing? Why did I attract this into my life? Just to see it so that I can recognize it?

    I’m thinking of saying some of this to him. That I blame him or feel turned off by certain things because I see them in myself. That I feel afraid that his lack of faith will pull me down instead of lift me up… mainly because my own faith feels so fragile.

    I feel confused.

  457.  #457Lucy on July 10, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Dear Shannon, I feel so much compassion for you right now. I feel that noticing the mirror is the turning point from which healing can flow.

    I hear you judging yourself, and, in spite of all his flaws, one thing TN man got through to me was to STOP judging myself because it only locks in the things we so desperately want to be different about ourselves. He and I both also have a traditional Christian faith, so I understand where you are coming from there. But the healing comes when we stop judging ourselves. We can NOTICE things we dislike or that don’t feel “right” — but we can do so without judgment.

    This was/is true of me as well: “What I want is someone who can make me do better. For so long I’ve dated men that I needed to help. I want someone to encourage me to do more, be more. I don’t want someone I have to help.”

    And THAT was what I loved so much about TN man. He was the first and only man who was able to do for me what you described above. And that was why I felt the loss so deeply when he got a different gf. 🙁

    HOWEVER, I know now that it was all part of a master plan. TN man put some things in place for me, spurred some incredible growth and awareness — and I was just talking with my therapist this week about how surprised I feel that the growth didn’t disappear when HE did — and my therapist agreed wholeheartedly — and she also agreed with my statement that if he was still around, still helping me spiritually, I wouldn’t be growing and healing as much because I would be becoming increasingly dependent on HIM as my “guru” and lover — and less dependent on my own inner resources, my own precious spirit, and God.

    I think that we get what we need at each moment. I needed him as a catalyst for some things. Now I need to fly with the wings he gave me — without holding onto him. I hope that in the future I will find a man who I can fly side by side with — who can be a growth partner where we learn, heal, and move together as spiritually intimate, beautifully balanced partners. Interdependent — not dependent or co-dependent.

    I have to go work on my chicken soup for the moment. Hope some of this helps, Shannon.

    Love and hugs!

  458.  #458mary on July 10, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    hi Simply Shannon,

    i always relate to your struggles. maybe it’s the faith connection.

    mmmmmmm… i have some thoughts. but i’m so good at thoughts!

    let me try feelings.

    i feel validated and happy to hear that lust is an issue for you (me, too.)

    i feel sad that you’re judging yourself and feeling unworthy of your faith. isn’t it all about not having to earn your worth? it seems more about claiming your new ground and accepting and receiving the gift of freedom (from self, from desire, from lust…) than about earning and doing and trying.

    and i feel anxious ??!? (is that the right feeling? not sure..) that you’re so into asking WHY you’re attracting this kind of person or that kind of person… it doesn’t work for me to ask why. it works for me to take affirmative actions that will lead me down the road of the life i’m creating for myself.

    and i hope i’m doing that with integrity. and honesty. and respect. and humility. and intent. and purpose.

    etc., etc., ad infinitim…

  459.  #459Lucy on July 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    How did my date go? Good question! haha.

    Well, I went there intending to love and accept his over-sensitivity and defensiveness, as well as my OWN, with compassion. I went with gratitude that I had noticed this mirror image, and with intent to heal it. Also, an intent to NOT be defensive or over-sensitive, because seeing it in him made me see that it is not only unattractive but COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY!!! I went with defenses de-activated, and hoped to keep them that way.

    Lo and behold, throughout the entire evening, there was not one iota of over-sensitivity or defensiveness from either of us!!!

    I attribute it to the noticing, awareness, and intent to heal.

    Now, other than that . . . I felt kinda bored and empty and uncomfortable. Based on our phone convo, I had expected him to talk talk talk, but he was actually pretty quiet! Several times we just looked at each other silently, and I would smile, then he would say (with a smile), “What?”

    My first instinct each time was to say, “Nothing.” Which was not true!!! I was not feeling or thinking “nothing” — and I feel so proud of myself that I did NOT verbalize “Nothing.” So I said nothing at all each time, and he picked up the convo again each time.

    Then, maybe the fourth time this happened (silence, him saying “What?”), I managed to TELL THE TRUTH, which was really quite simple and innocuous but somehow so hard! — I said, “I . . . feel . . . a little . . . uncomfortable . . . with the silences.” And smiled.

    He said, “I think that’s normal.” And smiled.

    I felt relieved by his response. I smiled and said, “I’m normal. That feels good.”

    So I practiced telling the truth.

    I also did a really good job physically leaning back in my chair which is unnatural for me especially when I feel nervous, like on a date.

    Now, here’s the main thing I think I learned: He was extremely good-looking — even better than his pictures — even better than TN man!!! — BUT I was completely unmoved by his looks! I felt disconnected from him for the most part, and NOT terribly attracted to his personality — and so his dashing good looks (amazing face and hair, 6’1″, awesome build) became irrelevant! I felt nothing even physically! That surprised me! It was like mentally I was perceiving his objective physical attractiveness but it didn’t even register in my emotions or my body!

    I know many of you are already familiar with that whole experience, but this was brand NEW for ME!

    I was feeling like I would much rather be with a less good-looking man with whom I felt a strong, joyful connection. 🙂 Those of you who have been following my love stories know this is a breakthrough, right? Lol.

    Anyway, I have no idea how he felt about me or the date, and have not heard from him. I don’t care much one way or the other. I would definitely go out with him again (he IS quite pleasant to look at!!! 🙂 ) but it’s fine if I don’t. I’d like to have him in my “rotation.” 🙂

    He walked me to my car and leaned forward to kiss me. It was a short kiss but he said, “Mmm! That was nice!” and he sounded kinda surprised. Lol. It did feel nice, and I woulda gone for another, lol, but he kinda hesitated like he was thinking about it maybe, and then he didn’t initiate. I almost leaned forward to do it again haha. Nice lips on that nice face! But I restrained myself. He may wonder if I am interested, but I guess he’ll just have to wonder.

    The end. 🙂

  460.  #460Lucy on July 10, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Need help!

    Am meeting this guy tonight from pof, but it’s sorta not a date — I agreed to meet him as a potential writer for his material — we are meeting at the new English pub in town — originally at 7 pm, so i had assumed it was not for dinner.

    Now he emailed and said he’s done painting and would I want to meet earlier? It’s not quite 5:00 here, so now I’m wondering if he’s thinking dinner…..

    But I can’t figure out how to find out without leaning forward!


    Do I just flat out ask, “You mean for dinner or have you already eaten?”

  461.  #461Lucy on July 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Okay. I just wrote, “You mean for dinner or after dinner?”

    He responded, “I was thinking after dinner. But would be HONORED to INVITE YOU TO DINNER if you want to.”


    I wrote back, “I feel good about having dinner with my kids tonight and then meeting you around 6:30. What do you think?”

    So we’re meeting at 6:30. And it is kinda a date. A maybe work-maybe play -maybe friendship kinda date. Haha. Could be interesting.

    I probably would have said no to a regular date with him, but his biz proposal felt interesting….. 🙂

  462.  #462Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 7:18 pm


    I feel happy for you! So many men! So little time!

    Better looking than TN Man??? Whew! 🙂

  463.  #463Ankita on July 10, 2010 at 11:05 pm


    RE #418,

    Yes, I’ve noticed that too, and that left me pretty puzzled, coz I heard you should always ask guy thinking questions…. But when they switch into feeling modes, I feel close to them, but at the same time, feel li’l emasculated, as if, well, I’m the female, let me be feminine.. and you be masculine…..

  464.  #464Ankita on July 10, 2010 at 11:10 pm


    RE# 429

    Yes I do, but a little only… I believe in them coz my dad knows astrology, and whatever he has predicted till date has came true… So I do.. Moreover, here, we’ve a custom to match charts before getting married.. So yes, I do….

    But I don’t believe it to be-all & end-all, I mean, I feel, we still have to work to make our relation work, just coz it’s written in our chart doesn’t ensures we are gonna be happily ever after without any effort on our parts at all…

  465.  #465Ankita on July 10, 2010 at 11:11 pm


    Such a fun exchange with Bill… Hmmm….. Very interesting and very flirty…. (winks)… 😉


    I feel wowed by your updates…. Wow……