New Questions Post – Ask Them Here

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I was alerted (thank you) that the “questions” post was getting way too full…so start fresh here…and also – remember – it’s probably easier to comment on the most recent post – no matter what your question – that way everyone can stay on the same thread with you…and I can find you more easily.  Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Senior Lady Vibe on October 1, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Rori, you have a wonderful web site and blog. It’s fabulous actually.

    I love it and I’ve been reading here every day. Each time I visit I find the right word, phrase or way of thinking that seems to be “right on time!”

    But today I must admit I don’t know what the “questions post” is. I’ve been reading in more or less in chronological order, without starting at the oldest threads, and sometimes reading by category.

    How should I be reading the posts? What about posting comments?

  2.  #2Daria on October 1, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Senior Lady Vibe – most of us just read and post on the 3 or so newest posts… no matter what the topic.

    There was an old questions thread, and sometimes people find it and post on it, but its old and really full so it doesn’t load up well in browsers.

    It’s fine to just post on the newest posts.

    Also theres a Recent Comments —> bar
    on the side, that you can click on the most recent comments people have posted and it will usually take you to threads that have discussion going on

  3.  #3Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Senior Lady Vibe,

    Welcome! The questions post is for asking Rori questions.

  4.  #4Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 1:41 pm


    I have a question about if leaning back applies if I am meeting a well-known person who travels…that is, if it’s a one-time shot with a famous person.

    I have relived 2 hours in 1995 hundreds of times in my mind. I know I can’t re-create the past, but what would you have advised me in this situation, just so I can let it go and quit second-guessing, and if I or another Siren encounter(s) this again…

    I had a two hour conversation with my all-time favorite music artist, Larry Norman. I FELT romantic, attracted vibes from him, and gosh, I’ve been in love with him since I was 9! 🙂 He invited me out with the crew to a restaurant after his concert, and he ignored the other 20-30 fans there while zeroing in on me with tremendous interest.

    He encouraged me to write him, and he told me how to address my letters so they would be given to him unopened. We had a 17 year age difference, and I think he was trying to figure out if the attraction was mutual.

    I will always believe I was supposed to have been his wife! 🙂 But my crowning moment came and went…

    Would that be a situation where it is appropriate to lean forward and verbalize my attraction?

  5.  #5Senior Lady Vibe on October 1, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Hi Daria and Brenda:

    I like reading your posts too! I’ve not seen a “questions post” but I know now not to post on it if I see it!



  6.  #6Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Senior Lady Vibe,

    This IS the question post! 🙂 This thread, with the heading, “New Questions Post – Ask Them Here”, is primarily for asking Rori questions.

    Rori also encouraged us to post on the newest thread so we are easier to find. Lately we have had 3 or 4 threads going at a time, and it gets confusing to keep up with everyone!

    Have fun! 😛

  7.  #7ReneeJ on October 1, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    What is the best way to attract a man on facebook?

    Post, hoping he’ll notice you and comment, because you should be the center of attention?

    Comment on his posts, hoping he’ll notice you, because he is initiating the conversation?

    Some of both?

    How often?

  8.  #8Sherry on October 1, 2010 at 4:58 pm


    I’m having difficulty distinguishing between what is a NV and what is instinct/intuition. I’ve tried to find the underlying emotion, but for me it always comes down to fear. No matter what the situation, when I try to sink in to my feelings, all I can come up with is fear. Self preservation so to speak. I am feeling on edge a lot lately and it is the constant conversation going on in my head that is causing that feeling. How do I know when it is a NV and to just put it in the corner vs. my intuition trying to keep me safe?

    Thank you for all that you do for all of us!

  9.  #9Renee on October 1, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Sherry — I don’t know if it’s any consolation, but when I get in touch with my feelings, the overhelming feeling I feel is fear as well — fear of losing the few good things in my life, fear of remaining stuck, fear of losing my looks, fear of going broke…I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Of course, I feel much better when I’m in my “good” feelings, but when I feel that knot in the pit of my stomach (which is present too often for my comfort) the word that inevitably comes up with it is fear. When I do a good job of getting present with it and sinking into it, it definitely diminishes, but I’m still working on it. Good luck!

  10.  #10Symantha on October 1, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Do we have any post where to comment about your monthly interviews?

    I’m catching up with tha last months ones and would love to talk about them with other women that are suscribed to the series.


  11.  #11Ragnell on October 1, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Can a feelings message be about a negative feeling attributed to a person and still be non violent?

  12.  #12Nita on October 1, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Hi rori thanks for all of your advice I think about it daily when practicing siren goddess with men now I have some questions because of a situation that happened and need insight
    Ok so I was feeling ill a couple days ago and my neighbor cute guy my age late twenties asked if I needed help I said yes im feeling really bad and coughing. He asked if I needed to go to the hospital and I said yes.he took me and we talked on our way there and also in the waiting room fyi I had just moved to the resident house were we rent rooms about a month ago so that is why I didnt know him that well but did notice He was cute. Anyway long story short I felt a little crush on him that night. He told me about his life his sorrows etc and He bought me a hot chocolate after and waited many hours with me. It turns out I was congested but feeling better now. It felt romantic how random it all was and it was funny that I was sick looked like crap ha ha but I just felt free. Well the next day he asked how I was doing and I said better and visited me in my room he said I need someone to take care of me and started to stroke my hair and we cuddled. But then I felt guilty… He has a girlfriend! I told him he can go I feel better and teasingly pushed him out the door! He called me later tonight and asked if I wanted to see a movie in his room and I said new rule no hanging out in each others rooms but we can hang out outside its not nice to your girlfriend… Hes angry but said ok.
    I feel confused I mean I guess im aware that I teased him and now just turned the other way got and then cold. Its like I was into it even with him having a girlfriend but it just felt really wrong once the romantic switch was turned up. I dont know im confused this situation happens alot with me I tease what I canthave am intrigued but do boundaries and change my mind because its just mean to go as far as taking some ones boyfriend. Whats your opinion on men who have girlfriends and not further commited relationships? They are gray to me I dont know how to deal with this category

  13.  #13Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Hi, Nita – just popping in to say that’s a good question, and I’ll be curious what the answers are. Hope you get some good ones, and hang in here!


  14.  #14Nita on October 1, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    As we speak he is watching a movie ha ha I can hear it through the wall…

  15.  #15Nita on October 1, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline, yes im looking forward to the answer too!

  16.  #16Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    LOL…Nita. There may not be too many people around here tonite, but tomorrow a lot of people will log on and there will be more answers for you – so don’t get discouraged! g’nite and take care!

  17.  #17Ragnell on October 1, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    I see I have been banned from commenting, and thus Rori is not willing to answer the questions I made her.

  18.  #18Tina on October 1, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    I feel bad, I WOKE UP and I am not going to date eggshell man anymore blah long story, I feel to embarressed to talk about right now totally humiliated blah!

  19.  #19Tina on October 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Anyway, Im signing up for a dating site 🙂 I already did, I recieved one reply but he is looking for an intimate encounter ugh!

  20.  #20Tina on October 1, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    I am soooooooo going to be cding by the book from now on.

  21.  #21BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 12:22 am

    Tina you need to get Lizzie to write your profile up for you she is doing it this weekend I think – she wrote a great one for me and for Amy F. She just has a way of putting who YOU are into words

  22.  #22BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 12:22 am

    p.s. Just WHAT is your avatar pic of? I can never figure it out……

  23.  #23BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 12:25 am

    #4 Brenda

    Just checked out who Larry Norman is, never heard of him before… you sure DO like long hair on men 🙂

  24.  #24Flora on October 2, 2010 at 4:49 am

    Hi Rori, I am in the middle of a divorce and the man I am dating long distance (who is also getting divorced but is a bit further on than me) calls me every night and offers to help me with my paperwork, particularly the numbers. His job is in finance and I like that he is doing this and it is helping me get through it but it doesn’t feel romantic. Should we always be looking for the hearts and flowers of it or is practical help part of the same thing?
    Also are you going to do a program or post soon about specifics around texting, I.M. ing, Skype and Email since this is becoming a big thing now for relationships and its confusing!

  25.  #25Meemee on October 2, 2010 at 6:07 am

    Hi Rori, Jacqueline, Renee, Mai, Daisy, Knocksoftly, Nikita and Amy and ot hers,
    I read rori’s newsletter yesterday. I followed her and made a list of things
    A list of things with which I am punishing
    A list of things I am tolerating
    A list of things why I am feeling angry
    I am pasting them below. How do I go about from here. I am feeling much clearer about the things bogging me after I have made the list.

  26.  #26Meemee on October 2, 2010 at 6:08 am

    Where am I punishing myself ?
    I think I am punishing myself in the following ways
    1. I am doing a job which I don’t like.
    2. I am not giving enough time for my PhD and not doing enough writing and reading.
    3. I have constant health issues, but I am not taking care of myself.
    4. I am smoking hell lot these days and I am not even considering quitting
    5. I am not taking care of my finances. The contract for my present job will end in a few months and I have no plans for future yet.
    6. It has been more than 4 months since I did a facial or shaped my eye brows or went to a beauty salon.
    7. The last time a brought a new cloth for me seems ages back- February I think.
    8. I am not going to doctor regularly or taking medicines for my allergy.
    9. I cry a lot in the night and I get headaches
    10. I keep myself away from my friends. I don’t talk to them in an open or transparent way.
    11. I have a terrible boss and I have been tolerating really bad behavior from my boss.
    12. I have not been punctual or regular about my job saying I hate the job and also because I do not want to see this guy.
    13.I rarely spend time with my friends.
    14. At office I don’t go for lunch because he and his women friends will be there and I fear will make some comments and I skip lunch regularly
    15. Though I love cooking, I rarely spend time on that.
    16. I am not doing anything to look pretty. I go to office as if I am just out of bed.
    17. Though I enroll myself in some courses and reading groups I don’t go regularly since I spend too much time thinking about him, trying to fix the problems and I don’t get time to read or write or do my stuff.
    18. Though do not open my mouth at all in the talks and other functions in my office because I feel embarrassed to talk in his presence. I feel worried that he will criticize my views and make fun of me. I miss all opportunities to express my opinions
    19. I do not eat regularly
    20. I do not exercise regularly
    21. I take sleeping pills which make me feel drowsy all through the day
    22. I turn down party invitations from my friends because he is also there for the parties and he behaves like a stranger to me when people are around and I can not take it.
    23. Some male friends of mine invite me for coffees and dinners and I turned those invitations down because I am preoccupied with him.
    24. I am punishing myself by worrying that I am will never be able to get over this man.
    25. I am punishing myself thinking that I made mistakes after mistakes in my life.

  27.  #27Meemee on October 2, 2010 at 6:09 am

    What am I tolerating that isn’t good for me?
    1. A job which is not doing any good to me and draining me of all my energies.
    2. I am tolerating a man who does not love me
    3. When he calls me names and says I sit silent
    4. I tolerate his neglect, no calls, no texts, no dinners. But I tolerate that
    5. When he says he wants sex, I agree to it
    6. When he leaves after sex without even spending time with me, I tolerate that
    7. He shouts at me and asks me to stay away from him, but I tolerate all his shouting and yelling and try to understand his reasons, though there are none.
    8. When his friends make fun of me, I silently suffer thinking that reacting to them may piss him off.
    9.He says all bad things about my friends and the people who I care for. But I don’t stand up for them because I fear he will get angry if I argue with him.
    10. For my last three birthdays he did not call me or give me any gift. He says he does not believe in such things and I tolerate that too.
    11. I feel ill and he neglects me and I tolerate his indifference
    12. He makes promises and forgets to do everything he promised and I tolerate that too.
    13. It does not feel good to chase him, but I do that and punish myself intensively by going through the bad feeling.
    14. I am tolerating the bad behavior from one of my colleague.
    15. I have health issues and I don’t feel good about ill health, but I do nothing about improving my health

  28.  #28Meemee on October 2, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Why Am I angry
    1. I am angry because I am not doing the things that I am suppose to do it life at this moment- not going great with my PhD. Not looking for a better job, not meeting people. Instead I spend my days in depression and agony
    2. I am angry because I feel he does not care for me and I feel he does care even if I am dead or alive. But I have always made myself sexually available to him and went after him. I feel I behaved like some one who does not have any respect. That is making me angry.
    3. I am angry because I feel I wasted more than 2 years thinking about a man who is nothing. Crying, praying and belittling myself. The times I wasted I will not get back. I could have made better use of that time.
    4. I am angry because I feel stuck in my life.

  29.  #29Astra on October 2, 2010 at 6:27 am

    I’m so glad I purchased your E-book, “Have the Relationship You Want”. I copied it onto paper and am now re-reading it for the third time AND doing the journaling exercises.

    When I found your book online, I had just begun to date a wonderful, romantic guy and because I really didn’t want to see him disappear, I got your book. Things are going really well between us. Thank you. BUT, most importantly, I want to thank you for the changes within myself that have nothing to do with whether or not I currently have a guy. Just two nights ago I was able to feel and identify “my gut” after years of trying to, it just happened and I KNEW what it was, no doubt. What a moment!

    The second change in me has to do with staying on my horse. For the first time in my life I feel so good about me and even though my guy, Jeffrey, is wonderful, if he departs I feel so totally ABLE to go on feeling good about ME! 🙂 Of course I would be sad, but the most important person in my love life is myself. I realize that now so strongly. I might have given that away, through foolishness or ignorance in the past, but not now. Thank you so much!

  30.  #30Honey on October 2, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Hi, I’m new here. I tried to post before but think I messed it up. Maybe this new format will work better for me.

    OMG, I am SO HAPPY to have found this site. Bought the book and am waiting for the Siren DVDs to arrive in the mail. This is truly an answer to prayer. In the mean time, I have a dilemma…

    Here’s the thing. I have absolutely no trouble attracting men even though I am nearly 49 years old. I am smart and capable and look good for my age if you don’t count a few extra pounds and the cellulite (lol). I have been on and have dated some great guys. I have had relationships that have lasted over a year. BUT, BUT, BUT…something always goes wrong, and after reading THE BOOK, I finally know what it is. Once I get into a relationship, and it gets serious, I do EVERYTHING WRONG. I work part-time, am raising kids with disabilities (without the help of their dad), and have been forced to go back to school in order to stay in my field of work. Keeping all this together requires a LOT of Male Energy…and I realize now the problem has been that I bring this into my relationships once they get serious.

    So here’s the current issue…I met the guy of my dreams and we were totally into each other from the moment we met. We dated for one month, BUT I realize now that coming so close to having what I wanted brought up a lot of anxiety for me. So then I started trying to take control of the relationship just like I take control in the rest of my life. I did EVERYTHING WRONG, especially overfunctioning (I’m really good at that) and not accepting him for who he has. He broke up with me by email accusing me of being really unaware and of having “no empathy”, which is ironic since I am highly empathic. But after I found THE BOOK, what he was feeling and what he said made sense. Unfortunately, I sent him a nasty email back defending myself.

    Here’s my question…what do I do now? I totally blew this. He’s a great guy for me…one in a million and totally crazy about me. And this really might have worked out. I wrote him an email stating my feelings in accordance with the book, but did NOT send it. I don’t know if I should. He did send me a photo that he took of me on our last date. I asked him to send some he took of the two of us, if he still had them and didn’t mind, but heard nothing back.
    Should I contact him and just express my feelings without any expectation, or just consider it a lesson learned? I am really disappointed he didn’t hang in there with me. On the other hand, maybe this had to happen in order for me to find this group.


    And sorry for the long post…

  31.  #31Honey on October 2, 2010 at 8:47 am

    BTW, I went back on If he checks, he can see that I’m on there again and not waiting around for him.

  32.  #32Turtle Girl on October 2, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Bravo Meemee-
    get it all out girl!

    Honey-why not vet your email here and see what the other sirens think? If he is gone forever what difference will it make? If you realyl feel you did something wrong and want to apologize then maybe you should send that to him.

    I am not sure if this is leaning forward or not. I don’t think so. What do other sirens think?

  33.  #33Nita on October 2, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Wow reading everyones comments u girls are amazing Real and human I dont feel so strange and crazy im just a girl good and bad and im not the only one who “gets off the horse every once and a while” and thats ok. Btw Rori when u get a chance read my question its comment num 11 its just such an annoying and frustrating issue that keeps repeating itself!

  34.  #34tinque on October 2, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Honey – Depending on what your e-mail says, you could send it. Then you have to let it all go. He will come back, or he won’t.
    You must then take the focus off of him. Take care of you. When and if he comes back, you will be in a better place. Or another and likely better man will step up instead.

  35.  #35Rhon on October 2, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Ok….I really need some guidance. D and I still see each other as much as we did when we were a “couple”. We are now just “dating”…and it is great. I have really been working the feeling statements and he responses. I share how I feel instead of what I think. I feel closer and way more honest about myself now with him and it is great. I have even admitted that I truly want a person I can love in my life, and that is not necessarily directed at him even though he knows I care deeply. He has deep feelings to but pulled back for a number of reasons. Some to do with his issues and some to do with how I was trying to “guide” the relationship before, which I have been able to let go of a lot.

    I am doing the CDing, and having a great time of it. I have a date tonight. But my heart is still with him. Very much still with him. I just don’t know how to let go of wanting our relationship back. One that we both felt open and honest and better than any other that we either had. He told me this morning that our relationship was better than his marriage ever was.

    Ok, so here’s the deal. There is a “friend” that he has. She lives in NJ (we live in FL). She is a sister of his neighbor and she comes to visit her about once a year. They have had relations in the past and remain very good friends. They text all the time and talk frequently. We pulled back in June. She visited in August and I know that they slept together. He had a business trip to NJ a couple weeks ago, and I know they were together then also. Like I said, I have been dating, and I even have been intimate with someone I got close with, but my heart is still with him, and I have told him that I still want us to reconnect.

    Ok, so that is the short history. Yesterday, we went to dinner and spent time together and I stayed with him. I know that I should not have, but when he was in the shower, I looked at his phone messages. While at his sons’ ball games, he was texting with her and it was sexually friendly I will say. And when we were going to dinner he texted going for sushi and then later texted good night. This was very disturbing to me. I couldn’t believe he was doing that. But of course, I couldn’t say anything. And it’s not like I don’t know what is going on in our relationship. He has been honest about her and that he has feelings for her. I know I shouldn’t say this, but I feel it is drama driven because there is a charge he is getting with her and when she was here, there was a ton of drama going on with the sister and her kids and he is not one for that, but there is something he sees in her that makes him intrigued. At any rate, I’m not trying to figure it out. It is not my place.

    Ok, so at breakfast, I decided to share my feelings about this woman being in his life and how I feel it is a hindrance to our reconnection. I know this is on the line of begging, and I really don’t know how I feel about having done it. I expressed how it made me feel and how our current relationship was making feel sometimes. I worry that I am his elevated booty call. He stated that we both give and receive emotional support…which I agree with. I can talk about my feelings with him when needed. And he also said that he thinks about us being more, but he feels ok where he is. And I said of course, because he doesn’t have to give anything he doesn’t want to and I feel foolish and not honored at times…mostly because of the relationship he has with this other woman. That is when I let myself be emotional. I don’t do this. I am a stuffer. I prefer to be numb and in control but I let myself feel it, I let myself express it and I let him see it.

    Anyway, I get that he is in his place. I know I can’t change that. I know I just have to be me and do what I need to do to make me happy. He said, “What are you going to do with me?” in a joking way. And I said, “The question is, what am I going to do with myself? All I want is to be happy and I need to figure out how.”

    So this is where I come to my question. I need to peel my heart’s grip from embracing him. I need to make way for someone who wants to cherish me and honor me. How do I get there? I know about CDing…I get that. But I am so less than enthused about it. I have a date with a guy who seems wonderful and thinks I’m beautiful and his someone I should let in. But I feel almost numb to him because of D. I know I can not bring D to me. I don’t want to really. But I want to stop caring so much for him. I want to have a friendship and truly not care about the rest. I know Rori says not to be friends, but there is a purpose in it with kids and needed support with everyday life stuff (not emotion…I’m talking directions, flat tires, early leave from school for the kids, etc.)

    So am I being delusional? Do I just need to cut it cold and stop the madness? Am I really ok with some of it or am I still reverting back to stuffing my true feelings when I say I’m not really hurt? I feel really confused at times. I still feel good with him for the most part and feel we are still growing and still have a chance. But I feel like I tetter back and forth between confidence and insecurity and hurt my cause at times. I think the talk today could have gone either way, but in some ways I hope it ruined things so he just walks away and it will be easier for me. I don’t know if my feelings about this woman really means anything to him. He acknowledges my feelings, but does that make a bit of a difference at all?

  36.  #36Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Yayyy Astra! Love, Rori

  37.  #37Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Ragnell – There’s such a logjam here….you’re just getting stuck in moderation with so many others –have to change keywords…you will never be banned. Love, Rori

  38.  #38Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Ragnell – This is a great question re Feeling Messages and thank you for asking for my clarification: A feeling message can say”I feel like throwing you over a cliff, I feel my blood boil and I feel like killing you…” Though I’d much rather you said “I feel so angry, filled with rage, this feeling feels horrible…I feel like doing damage, I don’t want to feel this way..and I’m totally okay with this feeling…I just want to feel it for a moment, so it’s making me feel quiet and withdrawn…I feel so angry, I feel like I want to hurt you…” and so on. This is actually NON-VIOLENT. ALL of it. Both versions. Because you are not making a judgment on the other person. No opinion about them or their behavior, no “statements.” It’s about you. That’s all. It is not possible to have a negative “opinion” about a person and be non-violent. Look inside yourself to see why you are judging them – it’s usually because you’re judging yourself. What you ‘can’t be with” is where the work is. Love, Rori

  39.  #39Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Rhon – Sounds to me like you did brilliantly. If you just keep doing what you’re doing – one step at a time, telling the truth, taking care of yourself, CDing just for the Free Therapy of it and practice using the Tools…you’ll find your way through this. If you are truly “dating” him …and NOT “friends with benefits” – you’ll know. I personally would not date a man who’s interested in other women – it would slow me down, and practicing with him won’t be as helpful….but perhaps this is for you to work through. Love, Rori

  40.  #40Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Meemee – one thing jumps out. I know my whole life I used my “health” in a subconscious way to “not do things” or “feel less than…” or “not be up to…” because I could not say “no” directly. As I learned to say NO and live with the feelings of guilt and weirdness it brings up in me (still…) my health improved. It’s becoming aware of how this is working in you. Love, Rori

  41.  #41Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Tina – reread the post here on how to use OKCupid…it’s a step-by-step explanation of how to work this dating site. – ( Everyone who’s CDing and didn’t read it the first time – go search “OKCupid” in the posts and you’ll find it…) Love, Rori

  42.  #42Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:28 am

    I’ll make a category for Monthly Interviews With Relationship Experts and a post for discussion…see if that does it, Symantha!

  43.  #43Sherry on October 2, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Rori could you please comment on #8? Thank you!

  44.  #44Mercedes on October 2, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Rori: one thing jumps out. I know my whole life I used my “health” in a subconscious way to “not do things” or “feel less than…” or “not be up to…” because I could not say “no” directly. As I learned to say NO and live with the feelings of guilt and weirdness it brings up in me (still…) my health improved. It’s becoming aware of how this is working in you. Love, Rori”

    This is soooo true! It’s amazing how much saying no and taking care of OURSELVES first can change everything about health and attitude and happiness…all of it.

    Much Love,

  45.  #45Meemee on October 2, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Oh Rori, you said it. I also do that. In fact use my health as an excuse for things worse than this. You are right, I have great difficulty saying No to things, people and my own feelings. At times I tell myself I feel low and depressed just because of my bad health while there are solid reasons lying just infront of my own eyes. I refused to address the issues and and side tracked them using this great “health excuse”. I use it with others. I used it with this man too. Last week I tried to talk him about not giving me enough time and not calling me and blah blah. He just shut down and refused to talk about these things which he though as irrelevant and insignificant. We got into a bad and unplesant situation where I wanted to talk to him and get him to talk to me and he refused to talk unless I stop talking about “relationship issues”. Finally I found an excuse- I told him I behaved like that because I was so unwell and that is what is making me feel the way I feel and say the things that I say. He readily agreed to it and took me out for a coffee later in the day. Now I realise what I really did that day (and many other occasions); that I was using my health as an excuse to bypass what I was authentically feeling. This has become sort of my survival mechanism.
    I know health can actually make me feel low. But I have to make a distinction between when I am low because of health and when I am using health as an excuse to avoid the real cause for feeling low.

  46.  #46Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I like the way OkCupid feels to me, plentyoffish just feels awful, I used that site before yuck!

  47.  #47Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:06 am

    I need a username 🙂 . I have a few emails to check on pof blah.

  48.  #48Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Thanks Rori! I figure out the rest 🙂

  49.  #49Rhon on October 2, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Thx Rori. That really helped.

    I do feel like I’m dating him. But I wasn’t sure if I was being realistic. We don’t just hook up all the we have an amazing sex life together. I feel like we are in a good spot and getting better.

    I guess I can’t say he has interest really. He sees her once a year and I think the curiosity of her intrigues him. He even stated he pretty much knows he wouldn’t be able to stand much of her in large doses. And he interaction with her has him praising how wonderfully we communicate and are open. She seemed to cause frustration and even anger when she was here and I’ve never seen him that way.

    But at any rate I have to concentrate on me my happiness and making myself more important.

    Thanks for the clarity. You are so right about those uncomfortable feelings. I’m a woman who never allows herself to cry…especially in front of people. And I let him see that. And he was there to hold me and console me and give me tender kisses and tell me he cares abt me. I let myself be a girl and be vulnerable. And he came to me. And he keeps coming.

  50.  #50Honey on October 2, 2010 at 11:25 am

    RORI – Could you please comment on #30. If I email him, I need some advise on to say on what not to.


    Anybody else out there, your comments would be appreciated!

  51.  #51Honey on October 2, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Here’s what I want to send him in an email. It seems strange to post something so personal in a public forum. At the same time, I need some feedback on what I wrote and whether I should send it. I feel like I did a lot of “processing” in the email. I’m wondering if I should edit some of it. Any thoughts?

    “I hope all is going well for you. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting and wanted to share some thoughts with you.

    First of all I want to say how great I felt when I first met you. I’ve felt some pretty strong chemistry with a couple other guys upon first meeting, but nothing like I felt with you. Even though we just met, the second I stepped out of my car door, I felt this overwhelming energy between us. Don’t know if you experienced it that way, but I did.
    Second, I want to say that things just moved too fast for me after we met. I don’t blame you for this at all. It just sort of worked that way. I think that happens sometimes when two people really click, and they are both emotionally intense people. I wanted to be close to you but at the same time it was really scary. Getting sexually involved was a mistake for me because it made me way too emotionally invested for being that early in a relationship, with no history together. I knew that at the time, but I did it anyway because I thought it would make you happy (not to deny that you are totally hot – but that it beside the point). I have a tendency to think more about what others want/need than what I want/need sometimes. While this sounds very nobel, it is not when I lose touch with my own feelings. I wish I would have shared this with you at the time, but I just wasn’t taking the time and space to be aware of myself, which in turn affected the two of us.

    When you emailed me, I was so hurt and angry, and felt so misunderstood. But later, I figured that you did what you did because you were probably feeling the same way. I tried to see where you were coming from with what you wrote instead of focusing on the details of what you said. I could hear that you felt criticised and unsupported. I think it was not so much a lack of empathy on my part as it was feeling scared and out of control, and reacting to that. And doing what has worked for me in the past to keep things together, which is take charge and take action – to be hard instead of soft. Unfortunately, while this works in other areas of my life, like work or fighting for child custody, this does not work for a woman in a personal relationship. Because of this, I did not give you the respect and support that you needed. I also did not trust you to give me what I needed and let myself just be. And for that I am truly sorry.

    I was listening to a voice mail a couple days ago, and there was an old message from you that played after that I didn’t even realize was still there. You sounded so sweet and I thought about how great you are. I also remembered how great it felt to be with you. I feel disappointed that you broke things off instead of working through both of our feelings together. At the same time, I understand because I know you are in a time of transition and working really hard on some things that are very important to you. I am really sad about how things worked out. Please know that I really do care about you, and that you are very much missed.

    Thank you for the brief but important place that you have had in my life”

    Feedback please!

  52.  #52Jacqueline on October 2, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Hi, Memee –

    okay, so how did the lists make you FEEL? Any different/better? It’s nice to have those lists – but I also think you should make two others – one of things that always or as close to always as possible – make you feel good/happy/content – like the air on your skin, or a shower, or a puppy, etc. and one of all the things you are grateful for. For me, those lists are the negative things and are to be used for remembrance/comparrison only and the positive lists are the ones we hope will keep us going on the right track.

    If you made the lists and they didn’t bring up some intense feelings for you – then you didn’t get to the bottom of it. If I made my list I’d be screaming and crying at the end. You want to get down there – Rori calls it the soup – alll the way to the bottom, and then come back up….to joy.

    How did the hair turn out?!!! I hope it’s fabulous and you can do this – leave him, turn your life around, etc. BUT …..remember, you only have to do it one really little step at a time….baby steps we call them.

    Like you said, too – if you’re in poor health you have to honor that – it’s not always an excuse, it can be…only you will know and you’ll know when you get down into the soup…smile…

    And I won’t be around as much for awhile; I think I’ve finally figured out an ebook – Coping/grieving the loss of your pet – so I’ll be gone and disciplining myself to the book and my blog. If you want to email me, feel free -any of yall.

    Much love!


  53.  #53Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 11:58 am


    I haven’t even read the email but already I feel myself shutting down……it’s really long and and I feel like something is being taken from me. I am going to go back and read it but I notice I’m yawning a lot….it feels like work and just too much. But…as a girl I applaud your bravery for posting it and your patience… takes a lot of impulse control to not hit the send button and get the instant gratification of what I’d call “closure”.

  54.  #54Honey on October 2, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Nikita –

    Thank you for taking the time to read it. I was afraid of it being too long, so that’s good feedback. I also feel like I’m trying to make excuses somehow, but not quite sure what I need to edit out.

    I usually act impulsively in these situations. I need to learn to wait and sit with things for awhile. I have a lot to learn and don’t want to blow it. I figure I have only one chance, I want to send the email, if only for practice. I just want the email to be “right” before I send.

  55.  #55Tina on October 2, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    I think ill pick a computer generated username

  56.  #56Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 12:24 pm


    No. No. No.

    I feel very in my head…reading it. I don’t feel any softness. I feel sad…and guilty…a little angry….drama…..turned off….yawny……and I get this sentence in my head…”well, it sounds like she’s got it all figured out; good luck with that”. 🙁
    I’m sorry if I don’t sound caring of your feelings…I am….and I read your story….if you insist on writing him something I accept that…..but please, not this.

    The truth that I heard;
    ” I realize now that coming so close to having what I wanted brought up a lot of anxiety for me. So then I started trying to take control of the relationship just like I take control in the rest of my life.”- honey
    “what he was feeling and what he said made sense. Unfortunately, I sent him a nasty email back defending myself.”-honey
    “I am really disappointed he didn’t hang in there with me.”-honey

    …… to me, the truth is…..or the dead elephant in the room is;

    I’m sorry. You’re right. As empathic as I am I failed when it came to you. I got scared and tried to manage you like I manage my children….and like I manage my job. I felt so good with you and feeling so good again, so alive, frankly frightened the sh*t out of me. I can’t control you and I feel sad that I tried to out of my own fear….even my explaining this…..explaining myself….is another way of trying to control how you see me. That feels icky…but I feel more aware of my patterns and next time a great man like you comes into my life….I’m going to feel my feelings….instead of stuffing them and trying to “manage” them and the man. I feel silly but I feel better getting this stuff out in the open. Thanks:)

    Ps… not send this!!!! I’m just riffing on what I see
    xxx Nikita

  57.  #57Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I’m going to the deli to buy cheese…..I’ll be back soon…
    🙂 later sirens

  58.  #58Honey on October 2, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Nikita –

    Thank you so much. No, you do not sound uncaring of my feelings. I wasn’t asking for emotional support…I was asking for HELP and feedback, straight and to the point, and that is exactly what you gave me.

    I can see that I have a lot of work ahead of me. Right now I feel sort of overwhelmed…it takes a lot to change patterns of thinking.

    I will rewrite! Thank you so much for your time and your help!

  59.  #59Nita on October 2, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Hi Rori I hope you have a chance to read my story and question its num 12 comment need some clarity:-)

  60.  #60Renee on October 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Hi Honey — I’m still learning the tools too, so this is not an expert opinion, but one thing I feel certain of is that you probably would be better off if you didn’t ‘assume’ you knew how he was feeling/why he did what he did. Honor his feelings enough to not tell him what he was thinking/feeling.

    I would also make it shorter, although I don’t know exactly what else you should edit out. If you’re patient, I’m sure some of the other sirens will come to your rescue. Good luck!

  61.  #61Honey on October 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    OK, Nikita. I re-wrote and plagiarised much of what you wrote…hope you don’t mind. Please tell me if this sounds OK. Everyone else’s feedback would be helpful as well. Here it is…

    I truly hope all is going well for you. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting and wanted to share something with you.

    First of all, I’m sorry. You were right. As empathic as I am most of the time, I failed when it came to you. I got scared and tried to manage you the way I manage my children, my school, my job and everything else in my sometimes overwhelming life. I felt so good with you, and so hopefull that I finally found someone with whom I could really connect. At the same time, coming so close to what I really wanted scared me half to death. I can’t control you and I feel sad that I tried, and that you were hurt. The next time a great man like you comes into my life, I’m going to try to feel my feelings instead of stuffing them and trying to “manage” my partner. It feels humbling and uncomfortable to tell you all this. At the same time, I feel that I owe you a sincere apoloogy and I feel better having shared this with you.

    Feedback please???

  62.  #62Ella on October 2, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Urghh, I feel really icky!
    I posted on another thread about my date last night and it was great with a great guy who I feel really attracted to, probably too attracted. Anyway he was supposed to call me this afternoon and he didn’t.
    This is triggering me massively.
    I am sitting on my hands in a bid to prevent myself texting him, as this is leaning forward right?
    The thing is I let him know I was circular dating and he seemed really into me and was planning the next date before this one ended. However when I said I had plans and about circular dating he said he would call me. It was as though he felt worried about this because before that he kept speaking about spending time together…

    He is not the most confident and had a hard time beleiving that I would date him and he kept kinda talking about spending time together and I didn’t say much as I was still processing things, but I do really want to see him again… I feel like I did not show him enough enthusiasm and yet that is boy energy right!

    Ahhh, and the focus is on him!! Grrrr, I feel cross that I have put myself in this situation and a bit disappointed, and very annoyed with myself for my over reactions!

    Urghhh, I knew he was going to trigger me… my heart is pulling towards him… this is really hard and I have a a knot of feelings (anxious) in my stomach.
    Not really a question but I would really just like a bit of support/advice to help me though this.

    I really like him and my natural reaction here is I need to show him! I feel like I haven’t and he hasn’t go the confidence to come forward. Or I am just making excuses for him in an attempt to make this easier? And how do I get the focus back to me and regain my equilibrium.

    I feel like a stereotype ‘crazy’ ‘drama’ woman right now. Drama Queen. I right now I am finding it hard to sit with my feelings.

    Grrrrr! I feel really angry. And I feel judged.

  63.  #63Renee on October 2, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Getting ready to head out to meet Blondie — here’s hoping we have fun and he has a positive reaction to my staying in last night…if he doesn’t, I won’t like it, but I’ll be okay…I was fine 5 weeks ago before I met him and I’ll be fine if things fall apart…hope they don’t, though:-)

  64.  #64Ella on October 2, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Oh and I feel insecure because I felt I opened my heart and I feel vulnerable. I am scared that I was too physical too soon and that by circular dating I might miss something good with him…

    Any advice greatly appreciated!


  65.  #65Turtle Girl on October 2, 2010 at 1:34 pm


    I don’t know what Rori would say—but I feel like Ick! If your guy already have a “girlfriend” then no-I only want to date men who are pursuing me with no other women involved. I think rori talks about this somewhere-don’t date ment who are dating other women-doesn’t work.

    If he has a girlfriend, how will you know you are not just side booty call? Using you? Your post has a bad vibe to it regarding his behavior.

    Plus, won’t he actually view you with disrespect because he knows he is cheating and that’s ok with you? No judgment of you—-just what I see. xxoo

  66.  #66Renee on October 2, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Honey — That sounds better to me. The end of it sounds like you’re not trying to manage his response (or necessarily expecting one) which I think is good.

    Ella — Since I’ve started circular dating, I’ve met a few men who wouldn’t put up with it…one was not all that confident, like your man, and the other was probably over-confident in that he figured he was so great that no woman would have a need for anyone other than him.

    Part of me says that if he wrote you off just because he couldn’t stand a little competition, then he’s not worth it (and he may not be) but if you feel in your gut that this is what ran him off, you certainly could lean forward if you wanted. My experience, however, is that once you’ve said that, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle…the over-confident guy I told that to basically wrote me off, even though I kind of retracted my stance and said for the right guy, I’d be willing to be exclusive “when the time was right”, which is actually how I feel.

    So, I guess my point is, you could lean forward and give it a shot, but I don’t know that this would have much effect…if he’s got a fragile ego, it may have been bruised already, so he may be a lost cause. But if you feel strongly about it, experiment with leaning forward just this once…see how it feels and what happens as a result…as long as you look at it like an experiment, you really can’t go wrong, just try not to be too attached to the outcome. What do you think?

  67.  #67tinque on October 2, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Honey – Yes as others have already said, this is WAY too long and not about you entirely. If you really think you must send him something, I’ve reowrked it for you.

    I feel so good in your presence, an energy between us unlike anything I have felt before.

    Things moved too quickly for me though making me feel really scared. You are totally hot, and I feel very attracted to you, but it seems we had sex too soon, and this may have disrupted a natural flow.

    I feel disappointed that we did not get the opportunity to explore further where our initial attraction may have flowed to.


  68.  #68tinque on October 2, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Honey – the second one is also too long. I also see you making yourself smaller around him. You did what you did or didn’t do, and so what. You really and truly can’t say the wrong thing to the right person.

  69.  #69Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Turtle Girl ?
    Huh?? I don’t think #65 was meant for me?….I just got here and I don’t recall anything about a Girlfriend!! What girlfriend???? What did I miss???


  70.  #70Honey on October 2, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Tinque –

    Thanks for your input as well. Geez, this is hard. I’m listening to the CD that came with THE BOOK. Interesting stuff. Wish I’d heard it sooner…then I probably wouldn’t be writing this email.

    Thanks, everybody, for letting me process here.

  71.  #71Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 2:02 pm


    I don’t like any of the messages….. Not even what I wrote….I wrote that for you to read….and either identify with it or reject it and get closer to what you really feel.

    I read that you determined you over functioned ….that’s ok.

    I do not want to cast blame….. I don’t want anyone to cast blame….I don’t want to see anyone regretting anything.
    Sink into your feelings…and reflect on how you feel now…..forget the past….. All of these rewrites are just more over functioning…..and more re-living/preoccupation with what has already passed.
    You read the e-book…. What are the 4 rules?…….
    How do you feel right now in this very moment….??

  72.  #72Honey on October 2, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Nikita –

    How do I feel? I DO feel sorry. He was sincere and falling in love with me, and I blew it. I am filled with regret, and I owe him an apology.

    Just reworking this does not feel like overfunctioning. The rewrites are helping me process. I like what you wrote because it was reflecting back what I was feeling and what you said was true. I think I’m getting closer to the core of what I want to say. Here’s the latest…

    I truly hope all is going well for you. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting and wanted to share something with you.

    First of all, I’m sorry. You were right. As empathic as I am most of the time, I failed when it came to you. I know now that things moved too quickly for me, especially physically (which affects me emotionally), and this made me really scared. I wasn’t fully aware of how scared I was at the time, so I tried to manage you the way I manage my children, my school, my job and everything else that seems overwhelming in my life. I can’t control you and I feel sad that I tried. It didn’t work for you, and honestly, in the long run, it wouldn’t have worked for me either. I felt so good with you in the beginning. We had such a great start and I’m disappointed that things moved so fast that we did not get to see where things might lead. I’m making some changes in my life so that, the next time a great guy comes along, I will be ready. I’m sorry that it took all this to get me to wake up. It feels humbling and uncomfortable telling you all this, but somehow I felt I needed to.

  73.  #73Honey on October 2, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    OMG, I can’t believe that I’m posting all this personal stuff. At the same time, I really appreciate all the feedback. I have a crazy life. Work, school, 3 kids and 2 of them are disabled. It’s so hard to take care of myself when my time is so absorved by everything, and I have not been able to have time for female friendships. It’s been great to read everyone elses posts. I read through a bunch in the archives as well

  74.  #74Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 2:53 pm


    Ok. If your intuition ….or the still small voice within says something to you… all means 🙂

    But….there’s a question I ask…myself…; what if I get no response…then what, then how will I feel. Am I doing this in order to get some reaction…or engineer a result…or is this going to feel like peace to me? Is this something I need to give to myself….is this following my bliss….?

    Make sense?

  75.  #75Rhon on October 2, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I’m having angry feelings about D coming up. I’m doing analyzing and I can’t get my brain off it. I’m about to go out on a first blind date with a guy who I have been texting for 2 weeks. We talked briefly for the first time today and he actually said this: “I’m gonna say it, men need to be needed.” I almost wrecked my car. He is the type of guy I should open my heart to but this D thing has me warped and now I am feeling anger, hurt, pain, confused, unapproachable and I want to snap out of it.

    Anyone have any suggestions? I’m getting scared I’m gonna ruin this before the night is over.

  76.  #76Ella on October 2, 2010 at 3:10 pm


    Thanks for your reply.

    So I didn’t text or contact him as that did not feel natural or good to me when I imagined how it would feel if I did.
    Anyway he just text me “are you awake? X”.
    I think the thing here for me is why I am being triggered. I am too caught up on a particular outcome and that feels like trying to control and it feels stressful to me. I want to figure out why this guy is triggering me and I think it might be something to do with the fact that he sometimes ignores me, which my step dad used to do, and I used to feel I had to work really hard to get his attention, and that when I did it validated me.

    This situation is also allowing me to examine why I invest in certain things too quickly sometimes…

    Maybe also I feel scared to leave my old road to try the new road of circular dating and I am afraid of being lonely and want to ‘cling on’ to someone. Maybe I am frightened of doing the work needed for circular dating and my energy is low today.
    And it taps into my other issues about haviing to push my boundaries by dating and interacting with guys who I am not attracted to and what that means (or I think it means) to me.

    Although I have had a tough time with my feelings today I feel glad for my feelings and this opportunity to learn and grow.

  77.  #77Turtle Girl on October 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm


    my bad I meant to address my post to


    not Nikita. Sorry.

  78.  #78BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    # Ella

    You make some great insights and I love reading them………..this resonates with me today because this is how I feel, I don’t really want to do the CD’ing even though I know I have to, I just want ONE man who wants me………

    “Maybe also I feel scared to leave my old road to try the new road of circular dating and I am afraid of being lonely and want to ‘cling on’ to someone. Maybe I am frightened of doing the work needed for circular dating and my energy is low today.
    And it taps into my other issues about haviing to push my boundaries by dating and interacting with guys who I am not attracted to and what that means (or I think it means) to me.”

    Yep says it all for me, thank you.

  79.  #79Honey on October 2, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    OK, finished my email and am just gonna send the d@$& thing. I put some “ego strokes” and something funny in the end as well to lighten it up.

    Now I need to move on with my life…

  80.  #80BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    #79 Honey

    Will you be OK if you don’t get an answer or one you don’t want to hear?

  81.  #81Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    I got a bad feeling about this;

    79: Honey says:

    OK, finished my email and am just gonna send the d@$& thing. I put some “ego strokes” and something funny in the end as well to lighten it up.

    Now I need to move on with my life…

    Saturday, 2 October 2010 @ 4:55pm

    Ego strokes?? Lighten it up…. Maybe you could just send:

    I’m sorry

  82.  #82Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Have you seen this?

    How To Say What You Feel & Stop The “Intensity” That Pushes Men Away

    Wednesday, 30 July 2008 @ 7:54pm • My Weblog

    I know the whole idea of “saying what you feel” sounds wrong.

    Men are supposed to HATE feelings, aren’t they?

    A man gets really uncomfortable around “drama” and the kind of emotional intensity we’ve been talking about in this series of posts – where your energy is all bound up in a kind of “push-pull” tension inside you – but he LOVES “feelings.”

    He loves to see you “uncovered.” As though you’re a transparent woman and he can see everything that’s going on inside you. Yes, even the “yucky” stuff.

    What we’re talking about here is vulnerability, and vulnerability is a RARE thing.

    “Fragility” is common, where a man feels you could easily break apart or fly into a rage or into tears at the drop of a hat. And he’s always on the lookout for that. But vulnerability requires inner strength, bravery, and a belief in yourself. In order to let someone see who you are inside – especially a man you love – you have to be “okay” with yourself. Liking yourself is even better. And loving yourself gets you the prize!

    Because if what a man sees when he looks at you is that you love yourself – then he feels compelled to love you, too. He can’t help it.

    So saying what you feel is a necessary part of being vulnerable. It doesn’t mean you have to say everything you feel ALL the time. (And most of the time we’re actually speaking about what we THINK, and what we think doesn’t count at all for vulnerability – we’ll talk more about that in future posts.) And it doesn’t mean you spew your feelings out in just any old way.

    What being vulnerable and saying what you feel means – is that there’s a way to talk about what you feel that works, that’s soft and vulnerable, and there’s a way to talk about what you feel that’s dramatic, “intense” and makes him think you’re fragile and difficult.

    In the next posts we’ll get to the exact ways to do it. If you’d like to quickly get my “Basics,” like Feeling Messages, down – try out my ebook, Have The Relationship You Want

    written by Rori Raye • Permalink • Comments (7) • Leave a Comment »

  83.  #83Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    There’s also a post on “why explaining can be controlling”.

    And others on not trying to get closure…..what if he thinks about it…..misses you and calls you all on his own after processing?…. I’m going to stop now because I don’t want to keep explaining either….and I support you either way 🙂


  84.  #84life_is_too_short_to... on October 2, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Just spoke to a guy on the phone from OKCupid who I felt enough good vibes from to agree to meet on Tuesday.

    I already told him that I allow the man to call me.
    He liked that I told him that.

    Then I felt like I was already going into overfunctioning mode and trying to manage the relationship already, so I stopped myself and said something about it.

    He said, yeah don’t worry, just be yourself.

    And that’s the key, minimizing the explaining and the narrating.

    Anyway, there are a lot of men who wait for you to call them after date(s) also. I had one guy say, oh i didn’t think i was going to hear from you again.

    So my question is, you could be waiting around forever before some of these guys will call you because they are waiting for you to call them, because they are interested and they think you are well aware of that, so, it’s like, the ball’s in your court.

    He said it turns him way off when a woman accepts a date whether or not she is all that interested, but just in order to go out.

    I like the idea of being able to practice and get therapy from circular dating, but I have to feel that I really want to meet the guy.

    Because of that, and Being as picky as I am about who I spend time with, I don’t think I would ever get to the point of having three guys in circular dating rotation at any one point.

    Rori said that personally “I would not date a man who is interested in other women” so on the other hand, maybe there are some or a lot of men who don’t want to date a women who is interested in other men, and it would be a deal breaker, even if she does put it the Rori way.

    What do you think?

  85.  #85Honey on October 2, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Nikita and BarbinOz –

    Yes, I will be OK no matter how he responds or does not respond. I’m already posted back on anyway, and have received more good contacts than I can handle already.

    The “strokes” and a playful comment that I added were ideas from Christian Carter’s website…I just got the CD from RR with his interview, liked what he had to say, and checked out his site. Hence the ideas.

    I figure, what have I got to lose? If he does not respond, or responds negatively, I’ve lost nothing. If he was going to think about it and maybe contact me, I don’t think an apology will scare him off. I really did do something wrong which hurt him. And in the end, all I did was state my feelings and boundaries without blaming him, plus tell him how great he is and how great I felt with him. No pressure for him to respond.

    I feel better having “owned” my own stuff…and I think we owe it to others to own our stuff, especially if our “stuff” hurt them. There’s valuing one’s self, and then there’s being so prideful that one cannot say, “I’m sorry”. If he wants to see me again, that’s up to him and I’d like that. If not, I feel I’ve done all I can do, learned a valuable lesson, and am on a much better path for my life. So I’m thankful he spoke up, eventhough it hurt and I didn’t like the fact that he broke things off. I have the chance now to make some positive changes in my life, which are currently underway. I’d say that’s pretty good.

  86.  #86Honey on October 2, 2010 at 7:20 pm


    I have had the same question about CD. I don’t want to “use” any guy for the sake of my own self-esteem. I’m wondering if the guys feel “played” when a woman is dating a bunch of guys, and it’s very important to me to live my life with integrity. After all, they are investing their time, money, and emotions. I feel like I really have to have a true interest. If not, and I’m already hung up on someone else to the point that I can’t give them a chance, I don’t think I can do it. BUT I’M NEW TO ALL THESE IDEAS – so maybe there’s something I’m missing.

  87.  #87life_is_too_short_to... on October 2, 2010 at 8:41 pm


    I think it’s all about having the courage to take chances to try out new ways of being, to take risks, to feel outside the box, to get out of our comfort zones, and find out for ourselves what works, because obviously, the same ole same ole, well, how’s that working for you?

    I have seen first hand how a woman (me) who has a lot of different men interested in her who she is communicating with, has an aura of desirability, yes, even, on-line this can be picked up on. And for some men, this may raise her value quite a bit.

    Others don’t care, they are really looking for someone who, when they wake up next to them in the morning, are ecstatic that they are there, because they really value them, but not for their desirability.

    In part, CDing is about telling a man you are very interested in, but doesn’t want to commit, that you would like a committed relationship with him but don’t want to rush him. In the meantime, YOU show him that you put YOURSELF FIRST by telling him him you are keeping yourself open to other men who you might be just as interested in who WILL have no doubt that they wants to commit.

    I think that in some cases this can work to light a fire under his butt, but in other cases, I think it could drive him away. Not sure if there is any way to know how to tell. That is where the ability not to be attached to outcome and having the courage to take a chance comes in.

    Because when something stagnates, it slowly dies.

    When new energy is being brought into the mix, it will move things, one way or another, so you can just keep on riding your horse.

    Every situation and every relationship is different, and mistakes are part of the whole plan.

    best wishes to you,


  88.  #88BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    #86 Honey

    You are investing your time and emotions too……also I am doing all I can to keep the “dates” cheap, yesterday I just ordered lunch that came to $10.00 and he paid, so I figured if a man can’t even afford that then he is not the man for me anyway, just before I went out I watched the last DVD on Targetting Mr Right to get a bit psyched up and lots of people feel this guilt about “using” men, its hard to keep remembering you are a Goddess/Diva/Sirena a prize to a man who should want to spend time with you…..

    When I meet the 2nd date guy tomorrow I will keep that cheap too, not because I am cheap (!!) but because it makes ME feel better about not “using” a person for my own therapy…..

    And I agree about this bringing new energy into the mix, even though the guy can’t see you on an online dating site, maybe vibes are going out into the atmosphere or something because my almost dried up contacts on POF have picked up hugely, mostly to Lizzie’s new profile for me, but somehow I think it’s more than that………….like “The Secret” or Abraham or Seth or any of that Universe stuff………

  89.  #89Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Oooh I feel triggered by this talk of using. My presence is just as valuable as his presence. I feel just as much gratitude for making his aquaintance as I imagine he feels. I provide therapy and learning to everyone as I receive it. I am not a martyr …. I am not a savior…. I respect a man enough to trust him to take care of himself…. My presence is better than ANY porn flick. I am an actual being….and not mere images trapped in celluloid. Who’s using who?

  90.  #90Ragnell on October 2, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    I received a gift from this guy. It’s alive and, with care, it will be long lasting. I love my new pet turtle very much.

  91.  #91Amy F. on October 2, 2010 at 10:50 pm


    CDing – My POV is that if a man can’t handle “competing” to get you, he’s not man enough for you. I too was so in love, I told him the commitment I need in order to be exclusive, he said he wanted it too, I became exclusive, he withdrew! What a sucker I was! I knew better.

    I told him – I’m CDing again (I used feeling messages of course), and he withdrew more. So painful. However, I am grateful I found out what I was dealing with sooner rather than later. CDing will separate the men from the boys and you want a MAN. Yes, your man may withdraw because of CDing, but the relationship would probably have driven you crazy anyway. Better to be crazy now, than more crazy later I always say.

    What I have learned is that your “one in a million” man is really one of 5000 in a million. There are many men out there and as you get stronger, you will attract even better men. Just move on from man #1 to man #2. NEXT!
    Much love

  92.  #92Amy F. on October 2, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    I just got the most amazing response on Match – thanks to your profile re-do!

    Here’s a little of what he said:
    ” Although it is politically correct to say in today’s society that I paid little attention to your physical beauty and it was simply the elegance of your words that caused me to stop that would be untrue.

    Your beauty caused me to stop.

    I opened your profile with one eye closed trying to peak to see if your words indicated that you may be the type of person I would like to sit down and talk to for a while. Although beauty is an asset, it does not of course hold you in the quiet time.

    As I read your profile I was again pleased. I stopped to speak to you because your words indicated the style and presence of a person that I would love to sit down and speak to.”

    Yeah Lizzie! Oh this man is a charmer for sure! Poetic – I fall for it every time. Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate your words. You have a gift!

  93.  #93Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Is Lizzie doing profiles? I want one too Lizzie 🙂

  94.  #94BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Well this guy I am SUPPOSED to be meeting tomorrow for a ferry ride on Sydney Harbour…..well……I emailed him my cell phone number after he had given me his, I told him I was old fashioned and didn’t like to ring the man first……..and this is his reply (!!!)

    I think you going on this site is not exactly old world now is it
    In the time of so call female freedom
    ringing a man would be a break with tradition. don’t you think
    go ahead do it
    for a guy a call from an interested party makes for a more interesting time
    don’t be any fashion, be yourself . It’s taken us a long time to get here… don’t you

    He has emailed me on and off for months, but it has only been bits of idle chit chat maybe once every 3 weeks…….Gawd I sure can’t half pick them!! First the Aunty man now this guy, or maybe it’s Ozzie men?????

    Advise for answers please ladies because there is no way I am ringing him first after learning all this RR stuff……anyway I actually didn’t want to go out with him tomorrow I was forcing myself to CD. Really I wanted to stay at home and fix the curtains and some pictures up in my new apartment, not sure if I can even be bothered now……..BUT Rori says this whole thing is difficult and you HAVE to get out there and meet men if you don’t really want to………….

  95.  #95BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    #91 Great stuff Amy and do keep us updated on the romantic poet 😀

    #91 Lizzie did me a fantastic profile too Tina 🙂

  96.  #96Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    I decided at the last minute to go out on the town tonight ALL BY MYSELF 🙂 I did, the singer in the band was really hot, I of course gave him the five second look. A man bought me a shirley temple 🙂 he sat with me for awhile , we chatted turns out he just lives up the road from me , not far 🙂 Ok, Im hot and I know it but men are afraid to approach me damnit! oh this one guy complimented me , he touched my hair. It’s a bar so yeah .

  97.  #97Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    I thought to myself , while looking at shirley temple guy, I wonder what I would feel like to kiss him 🙂 I leaned back , way back. He did step up and do his masculine thing, he turned and started talking to one of his friends and I stayed for a few minutes then walked away. He left the bar poof! lol I feel kinda weird hanging around while a man is talking with his buddies or whatever.

  98.  #98Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    OH yes and the singer in the band , we did the eye contact thing all night, I had a lot of practice with him. I started to danc and he came off the stage and started playing his guitar around me and me around him and and oooooooooh was way cool.

  99.  #99BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    YEP I think it is Ozzie men… some of you may recall (or not) that this man called me Aunty Barb in his first text to me when we supposed to be arranging a meeting, yes he is 50 to my 57 so maybe I got oversensitive….but I felt really patronised and insulted………..

    So I texted him back:

    “I feel really weird being called Aunty by a man. I don’t like how it makes me feel and has really put me off any meeting.”

    Then he wrote a few lame texts which I ignored, now he has just emailed this to me in POF, turning the tables on ME!!

    “I never thought u would get angry and mad at me calling you aunty Barb, its not meant to say you are an old woman, its just what i have said to people with same name in the past, it has no significance, anyway i did not call you last week while in Sydney as you said u seemed angry with yourself
    stay safe

    What a flaming nerve!!! Does this man not realise that I am a Goddess/Diva/Siren!!! 😀

  100.  #100BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    # 97 Tina

    Oh I like the vision of the singer playing his guitar all around you like one of those MTV video clips 🙂 Like you are dancing around teasing him with your hot red lips and long blonde hair blowing……:)

    I just did the eye contact with this dishy guy in my age group at the airport, I made it to about 3 seconds with a little secret kind of smile to myself and he looked away first ha ha!!

  101.  #101Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    BarbinOz, I was just send a text to both for whatever reasons and say “I feel turned off” 🙂

  102.  #102Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Barb , I just love the feeling of doing the 5 second look 🙂 I feel brave hehe

  103.  #103Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Eggshell man is wanting me to call, I cant , I just cant do it. I feel repulsed by him now. I want to bash him in the face.

  104.  #104Tina on October 2, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Singer guy doenst live around here so yeah that was my romantic evening yum to singer guy.

  105.  #105Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:00 am

    I dont know if I have to officially tell eggshell man that I am breaking off our exclusivity? as far as I am concerned what he did to me yesterday was really effed up and I dont want to see him anymore, so do I have to tell him or just ignore his calls and emails.

  106.  #106Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:01 am

    I dont THINK he deserves an explanation period. That’s my attitude.

  107.  #107Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:04 am

    I am feeling humiliated and embarressed to even talk about it, but all I can say is it shopping mall and police ugh.

  108.  #108Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 12:07 am

    I have asked the sirens the same question about pulling the exclusivity rip-cord. I was told to just let him fall off the back end of the horse. If he asks, tell him, but if not -adios baby!

  109.  #109Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Ok, I wanted to get away from him , so all I could think of was GO TO THE MALL AND GET TO A PHONE CALL MY SISTER TO PICK ME UP. I figured a public place would keep me safe until I call my sister to pick me up or a taxi whatever, in the meantime he followed me to the mall and called the police and said that I stole something from him, the police arrived while I was on the phone and , this is no joke, they took me to the police station and threatened to keep me there over night until I CONFESSED! wtf! I said I want to call a lawyer, she said they coudlnt keep me in jail and had to let me go. Basterd! I cant believe he did that to me. using law enforcement to keep me under control. they felt me up and squished my boobs ugh! yuck! he then leaves a message to call him and he didnt mean for that to happen to me, and he said call him that he has something important to tell me.

  110.  #110Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:14 am

    lol at rip cord thanks Amy F

  111.  #111Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:19 am

    I feel afraid that he may do something worse to me. He did jokingly say in the past he could easily set me up. He has and does work with law enforcement so yeah.

  112.  #112Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:20 am

    and has police friends, I feel freaked out by this.

  113.  #113Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:26 am

    ok maybe im making to much of it all but I hope he gets the message. Im just feeling really shaken by what happened yesterday.

  114.  #114Tina on October 3, 2010 at 12:27 am

    ok, delet button where are you? that was to much info ugh!I feel bad now.

  115.  #115BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 12:38 am

    #113 Tina

    Don’t be scared or embarrassed to write on here this is our own secret Siren island………

    I think Amy is right, get the saddle out, hitch it onto your gorgeous white horse and keep riding down that road until you find the bridge to love and happiness with the right man, no eggshells needed 😀

  116.  #116Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 12:51 am


    Don’t be embarrassed – nobody here but us sirens. Never contact this man again. Never. He’s a psycho who is probably related to the psycho men I have dated in the past. This man is the definition of a “toxic man”, and sounds dangerous. Please be careful. Maybe get a restraining order. Take this seriously.

  117.  #117BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 1:27 am

    #112 Tina

    BTW you are no way making too much of it!! This man needs to be gone from your life……….whichever way you do it, get rid of him. If you live on your own, can you go and stay with your sister for a while, or get away somewhere?

    That is really sick what he did, you need to tune in and turn onto this……..I am so guilty of excusing my ex-husbands really bad behaviour……… I look back and can’t believe the sh*t I put up with. Do yourself a favour Tina and get as far away as possible from this man.

    Take care x

  118.  #118Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:12 am

    I have not read all of your posts, just the most recent ones. But please get rid of eggshell man! What he did makes me feel shocked and disgusted.
    How could he put you through that. I feel angry.
    Ok, I do not know the whole story however I do not think you have any responsibilities to him now. I would never contact him again if a man did that to me.
    I feel sorry tha you had that experience and to me he sounds like a very toxic man!
    Look after yourself.

  119.  #119Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:18 am

    Urghhh… Ozzie man and his text. It makes me feel icky too. Some guys don’t seem to connect their brain at all to think how they may come across.
    i recently recieved a text from a guy saying ‘Hello?? Earth calling Julie!!’ Now you would think from that text that he had been trying to contact me and I was not responding. No such thing… he was merely ‘put out’ that I was not making an effort to contact him ‘enough’!!! Whatever.
    I exlained my views on this and he came back with some speech about relationships being equal with 50/50 effort and how he loses interest if the woman is not ‘keen’! Funny how he still wanted to meet though!I accept other people view things differently howev

  120.  #120Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:18 am

    Urghhh… Ozzie man and his text. It makes me feel icky too. Some guys don’t seem to connect their brain at all to think how they may come across.
    i recently recieved a text from a guy saying ‘Hello?? Earth calling Julie!!’ Now you would think from that text that he had been trying to contact me and I was not responding. No such thing… he was merely ‘put out’ that I was not making an effort to contact him ‘enough’!!! Whatever.
    I exlained my views on this and he came back with some speech about relationships being equal with 50/50 effort and how he loses interest if the woman is not ‘keen’! Funny how he still wanted to meet though!I accept other people view things differently howev

  121.  #121Daria on October 3, 2010 at 3:21 am

    Tina – yuck! about being felt up…

    actually I don’t know the laws in Canada, but a friend of mine actually is SUING the police over here, because male police searched and booked a girl he was with. They have to search people they book, and they have to have a FEMALE officer search the women.

    If that didn’t happen, ITS A CASE!!

    I was skeptical, but they are actually suing and are expecting to win something like over 100,000$ from it,

    they are not rich or anything, they just knew a lawyer and its an open and shut case, since she was booked , she must have been searched, and tehre were no female officers present… so thats IT.

    They got em!


    i feel glad you’re no longer talking to him


    Toronto man is still inviting me to Toronto, are you by there?

    he just bought me my herbs i wanted from mountainroseherbs, they were 60 $ bucks, yeah i feel thrilled about this

    I used to feel really mad at Toronto man because we have a past history that includes me going to jail because of listening to his stupid ass… but i don’t want to go there…

    somehow as i kept opening my heart last month, i just forgave him, and now am EVEN ATTRACTED TO HIM!!! which i never was before, he was not totally my “type”

    but i dont have a type now, I seem to be attracted to any man I open my heart to – like Rori said

    meanwhile he, Toronto man, has been IN LOVE with me since the first time he saw me,

    he says he feels like super man around me, like my energy, he says women he dates and people who know him all know who i am, because the way he felt around him…

    and the last girl he dated broke up with him because she knew he didnt feel the same about her as for me,

    meanwhile i havent talked to him in like 5 years, so wow


    I had a great time staying over at Jamaican man’s house yesterday…

    he told me tonite not to go out again… what??

    ummm i dont want to be told what to do…

    he’s in love too.. lol

    he’s so not my type, but as i open up to him im starting to get really attracted to him…

    its probably whats making me attracted to Toronto man because they remind me a tad of each other

    im starting to feel fear and guilt with all these men wanting to marry me, im just gonna lean back hehe

  122.  #122Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:21 am

    Oops, pressed the wrong button with my fast (emotional) typing! Lol…
    Meant to say however by that time I had been completely put off meeting. His text just smacked too much of ‘jealous boyfriend’ and ‘issues’. I was completely put off from meeting.
    Imagine sending that kind of text in that situation when you haven’t even met the person…

  123.  #123Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:24 am

    Arghhh, I clearly can’t type today!
    Re #119 – it was meant to say Barb NOT Narb! Lol

  124.  #124Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:32 am

    Re #93. I have experienced this too. Men complaining that I do not call first or call them enough… I just smile, keep the tone light and tell them that I do not feel comfortable calling first and that I am traditional. I like it when a man calls me because it makes me feel great and that relationships work better if there is one person leading.
    It often leads to an interesting discussion about relationships and roles, and they usually like it when you say about the man getting to make this decisions! Lol. I always follow that with how I need to trust and respect a man to continue dating him for this reason.
    However I will not change my stance and be pressured into calling. It does not feel right to me. I have stopped dating some guys becasue they couldn’t handle this however they really were not worth my time so no loss honestly.
    I think men who want the woman to call sometimes are looking for an ego boost.
    Good luck dealing with this guy.

  125.  #125Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:46 am

    Re #96.

    I have/had the same issues and resistance to circular dating that you have mentioned. I guess the same fears about how the guys will react…

    However what I am getting to learn is that really in the long run you are doing everyone a favour. Yes, they are investing time and money however this is natural if they want to get the woman they love… think back to our grandparent’s time of ‘courting’ this kind of thing was common practice then and they did not have half the relationship isssues we struggle with today.

    CD-ing is about changing the vine around you to attract people and make you a valuable rarity! This is good for the guy. You are not a commitment phobe as your long term goal is marraige with the right person.

    And as long as you are honest with everyone I do not see how it will hurt anyone. It seems to speed up the process of bringing out any issues the man may have and does separate the men from he boys, whilst saving you precious time and energy.

    Yesterday I was feeling unsure and had questions. After some processing today I feel strong and beleive again in CD-ing.

  126.  #126Ella on October 3, 2010 at 3:48 am

    I feel great to hear about these men wanting to marry you!
    Godess! Yay.

  127.  #127Daria on October 3, 2010 at 3:48 am

    More about my date last nite into today :

    first of all, his friends seem like Enthralled with me. like, to they point that they are practically hitting on me. lol.

    second, i felt kinda pressured Again, for sex, and then he’s like, ohhh you don’t even really call me “babe” etc, im like yeah i dont really say that “babe” word, maybe “papi” or “baby” or “boo”

    I said i felt disconnected and kinda scared

    finally we were outside, and he’s like well you feel this way, but what about my feelings i have feelings too, you’re not considering how i feel?

    i’m like… well, i realize you do have feelings, and i think its important that i share mine with you, so that we’re aware where we stand…

    but this is feeling bad to me, i don’t want to feel pressured

    and he’s like well i mean i dont know whats going on, because like, are we a couple, couples have sex, this is not just friends, like we are closer then friends, so what do you think?

    i said well, im not going to have sex until i feel like i want to, i mean , doing it before that would be disrespectful to myself

    he’s like whoa – thats interesting

    i told him i felt like:

    mm i feel open to getting to know you, and i want to feel emotionally safe and protected, so i can open up to you

    i did feel closer to you last time, and as far as sex, im open to starting to feel that way, and I did start to feel that way last time… which felt good and was even surprising to me, but im not having sex with men until i feel a desire too, i mean i don’t know how long that will take, i know men that its been over a year, and we haven’t, im not saying that’s our situation, but it can happen

    and as far as couples, im not interested in having a boyfriend, im wanting to get married and have a family, and everything up until then is just dating

    and it would feel good to me to keep dating you, but i need to feel protected to feel safe enough to let you know how i feel

    — pause — so what do you think?

    now i felt scared, at this point… after having said all that… and then he says

    I understand you. I really understand you. Wow.


    and then he says.. “I think something’s wrong with me”

    and im like what?

    hes like no i dont want to talk about it, it turns out it was something about his childhood, he’s like if he tells me hes gonna cry

    im like aww


    i feel curious … and i dont want to pressure you

    SOOOOO — apparently it sent him into feeling all like Touched… and thinking of his childhood…

    and after that he just completely started listening to me and i Did NOT feel pressured anymore or any weirdness… i just felt GOOD with him, for the rest of the 20 hours we spent together

    So yeah! wow! i sure didnt’ expect him to melt into some stuff about his childhood by my telling him how i feel about my dating life lol

    but i guess i really AM that good

    i feel excited cuz i will be not bleeding my beautiful magic blood soon… and i feel curious about sex stuff… hehe

  128.  #128Daria on October 3, 2010 at 3:49 am

    Ella – i felt super inspired hearing about your date and the tools you used… it sounded much like my date! yayyy!!


    ps (don’t worry about his pullback.. i would just wait it out… then he’ll show up even more into you, because he couldn’t take being away)

  129.  #129Daria on October 3, 2010 at 3:51 am

    Ella – I agree.. men LOVE hearing about that they get to be in charge of the decisions…

    you really GET these Rori tools! awesome!! i feel so glad you are here yay!1

  130.  #130Daria on October 3, 2010 at 3:56 am

    PS – i feel so happy that i was listening to my man’s songs that he made…

    well at first teh few ones i heard i wasnt particularly impressed by so did not compliment or say anything, and i think he noticed…

    but then he put on some new ones and they sounded Awesome, i was like Wow thats YOU?

    so i felt glad that he sounded good to me AND that he probably really prized that compliment because im pretty sure he noticed i didnt compliment him before on it

    yay…. my baby can rap!


    on another note, 19 man keeps entering my mind hehe… its like i Miss him and his energy, i feel excited thinking about when he will ask me out on that date to the movies he talked about on the phone with me…


    also with this guy i’ve been dating, we haven’t actually been on a formal date… and i want that… i don’t want all our dates to be casual hangouts, etc

    so i look forward to see waht he will come up with…

  131.  #131BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:15 am

    So ladies here we have the very 2 underwhelming men…….

    E who wants me to phone him first!! I think not, Sirens do NOT phone men first


    I who has turned it around that I was ANGRY at MYSELF!!!!

    Why am I attracting men with vowel names LOL!!

    Sooooo what do I say to these 2 guys or do I just delete them both from POF?

    Also what about all the other unsuitable men I am attracting on these sites, WAY too old, WAY too young, WAY too short, etc. Should I use my replies as kind of feeling message thingies so I can say what I really feel, well obviously not like NO WAY AM I GOING OUT WITH A 69 YEAR OLD MAN kind of thing 😀

    What to say, what to do?

    God, I hope the quality men are going to show up soon!!

  132.  #132BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:17 am

    #119 Ella

    It made me feel icky too, like this 61 year old man was wanting ME to chase him!! Obviously my Goddessy vibes are not making it across the airwaves….I need more practise in feeling messages…..

    (N)arb 😀

  133.  #133BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:20 am


    It’s soo great to hear that all these men are wanting you to marry them, especially when you have been so open and done the no girlfriend speech with them. It gives us all hope.

    I found a FANTASTIC reply you did on an old archive I was reading today, it was in response to a lady who felt she was “using” the men by CD’ing and you put it soooo brilliantly I am now off to find it and post it on here for Honey and others including myself to remind us what CD’ing is really all about…….

  134.  #134Daria on October 3, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Barb – i think its important to tell the truth in Feeling messages …

    ie… ohh… that feels bad… im feeling turned off… bye

    for the rest of them, date them unless they scare you

    this is not about the Men, but about practice.

    as you get more practiced in rejecting what you don’t want because of the way it feels — ie… this is not how you want to be treated… (rather than, because they’re too short for what you usually were attracted to in the past… tho you can share that too, with feeling messages …)

    in a non blaming way,

    and Accepting great treatment from men (even if they themselves don’t look 100% like Romeo)

    then better men will be coming into your radar


    maybe i can open up my requirements a lil too…

    i will consider doing this for the men that have been contacting me online…

  135.  #135BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:28 am

    Daria you are so good at this and I am sooo rubbish, can you please give me some examples?

    I don’t want to be rude or mean, but ya know? I can’t help my feelings about attraction can I? We all have our preferences and mine is for taller men than 5′ 6″ or soooo, I feel a need to look UP into a mans eyes, not down at the top of his head, I just can’t help that. And even though I am no spring chicken myself I am attracted to men with a youthful attitude not those who look like they have one foot in the grave………so how to be nice but truthful…? Off to find your post – wish me luck I have no idea where I was earlier today on this blog……..

  136.  #136Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 4:36 am

    Barb in Oz,

    Thanks for checking out Larry Norman! Yes, he is probably WHY I like long hair on men! I just love that look! He did a lot of concerts in Australia, too! He was mainly around from the 1960s until 2 years ago, when he sadly passed away. 🙁 But he lives in my heart in and in the hearts of a lot of his fans.

  137.  #137Ella on October 3, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Hey (N)arb 🙂 lol,

    Firstly I am feeling Ditzy! Of course you are in Oz… it says so in your screen name! Loool.

    Ok, I agree with Daria… date them unless they scare you or you have an overwhelming resistance to it. It doesn’t mean you have to continue to date guys you do not like however it is important to open your heart to different men and push your boundaries a little in order to learn, get triggered and get stronger.

    Reject them if and when they make you feel bad.

    Regarding how to do it – again it always feels icky to me to have to reject someone. On the other hand I have been suprised at how well men respond to honesty and feeling messages.

    I hope this helps. I am feelin very wise and open today! Lol. It feels good. I feel strong and shiny!

  138.  #138BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:54 am

    Took me 20 minutes to find but I am back!!

    I just love this answer Daria gave to a lady who was worried about “using” men, I have had the same problem too so can totally relate to her thinking UNTIL I read this today:

    “Circular Dating is not about dating, it’s about therapy and learning about YOURSELF in the context of romance and being with men…

    it is the only way to really take a look at yourself, your own patterns, that “what did I do wrong” that you CAN fix even though it was never your fault …

    and bring to you the joy and happiness that you deserve

    Please don’t circular date looking for a man, that is not the same. Only circular date looking for yourself. As for the men, you can forget their name as soon as they’ve left your presence. When you are happy with you alone then you will feel the difference…, you will understand yourself and what makes you happy, and how to be happy with MAN in general, and whatever man you choose in particular…

    It is not Easy to circular date. It is going to put you face to face with the truth of your own patterns and behavior… and it will lead to healing. That is for sure.”

  139.  #139Alonka on October 3, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Hi All,

    I posted this in an old chat initially:)

    May I ask for your opinion – do you think writing to a guy who just rejected me suddenly and telling him how I feel about our whole relationship is a bad idea? Normally I would be the ‘silent’ type – don’t say anything in these situations- but now I’m wondering if i should open up and say something. He always breaks up with me for untrue reasons and always it comes out of nowhere and I never expect it (and I’m a pretty smart girl!) And I actually did try to fight it in the past, but not consistently: one conversation – he would listen, but not pursue me afterwards, so I would leave it as is. We know each other for over a year and last time we didn’t talk for 6-7 months. But I never forgot him and never moved on – it is really amazing how much chemistry and how much in common we have. I know the whole story doesn’t sound good, but there is something in him (and our interaction) that makes me still be willing to invest in it.

  140.  #140BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 5:25 am

    Hi Alonka, believe me I am NOT qualified to answer you, I will leave this to the wiser Sirens, but just wanted to say Hi and I look forward to their words of wisdom to you……I have learnt so much this past month since joining this blog, I thank God for it every day……….

  141.  #141Renee on October 3, 2010 at 5:30 am

    Hi Ladies — I just had to share that I just had the most wonderful night w/Blondie:-).

    We went to the big family function we had planned after meeting at his house for cocktail hour (his house was on the way to the function). He was great w/my family and everyone adored him and he was so sweet and attentive the whole time we were there (as he usually is:-).

    On the way back, we stopped at a restaurant for a quick bite and he left for a minute to go to the men’s room. When he came back, he seemed nervous and sat across from me (instead of next to me, where he normally sits). He said he had something to tell me and started telling me about how he felt last night when I was (supposed to be) out of my date w/the dr (I never actually got around to telling him I didn’t go…so I guess technically I lied by ommission, but anyway…).

    So he told me that he knew after what he had said earlier this week that this was probably a good taste of his own medicine, but that he reeeaaally didn’t like me to be dating other men. He’s told me more than once that he’s not really a jealous guy, but that for some reason with me, he just couldn’t stand the thought of another guy holding my hand or kissing me…that he felt he had no right to ask this of me, but that he just wanted to tell me how he felt and how much it bothered him when he was sitting home the night before imagining someone else with me.

    Well, as you may know from my previous posts, I’ve decided that I’ve cd’ed enough this past year (even before I knew it was called “circular dating”) for me to feel comfortable with the idea of exclusivity with the right man and I loved hearing him say those things. I told him I didn’t really have any interest in seeing anyone else right now and I meant it. He said he wanted to be sure that’s how I really felt and that I wasn’t saying that just because that’s what he wanted, but I reassured him that I had had a knot in my stomach all day at the thought of going out with this other guy and that, for the first time in a very long time, I felt comfortable only dating him.

    So…the upshot is that we’re not officialy “girlfriend and boyfriend” and I feel really good about it. I know becoming exclusive with one man has its risks, but it also has its benefits and I’m willing to risk the chance that things will head south for the benefits of having one special person in my life and it feels really good to have this man in my life. He treats me like such a queen when we’re together (he always has) and he genuinely seems to feel like he’s hit the jackpot with me and I love the way he looks at me with his eyes full of love. We told each other we were falling in love with each other and I told him I felt very scared saying that because I haven’t told anyone that in some 15 years, but that’s how I felt and I wanted to share it with him.

    He had to leave early this morning for a business trip and I’m going to miss him so much! Between his work trip and having his kids Thu and Fri, it will be nearly a week before I get to see him again, but it feels so good to have our relationship made more formal. He’s so excited about the likelihood that we’ll be together for a while that he’s making all sorts of plans for stuff he wants to do with me…he’s like a kid in a candy store having me agree to be “all his” and says he never imagined someone as wonderful as me could possibly fall for him too….he’s such a sweetheart!

    I really feel happier than I’ve felt in a long time when we’re together…we just get along so well and while we have different personalities, they seem to really complement each other. Not to mention the fact that we’re very compatible sexually and that’s a major turn on as well as a source of emotional bonding for me. I just feel so special and loved when I’m with him…after dating what seems like half of North America, I just really feel like I’ve found a true gem and it makes me very happy.

    It’s possible I may be back here posting again in 3 months how he’s taking me for granted and that I’m going to have to start cd’ing again to disentangle myself from our relationship, but I don’t think so…I don’t think I’ve ever felt this valued and accepted by any man I’ve ever dated…it feels so awesome! I have to thank Rori’s tools for enabling us to create that emotional bond that has been lacking in all my recent min-relationships. I’ve been so much more vulnerable and open with him and I am reaping the benefits by getting to feel so close to someone, and we’re just going to get closer the more vulnerable I’m able to let myself be. I also feel like the amount of cd’ing I did helped me really clarify what I wanted and finally be able to recognize it when it came my way instead of attaching myself to yet another emotionally unavailable man (which was my pattern).

    Mmmm…despite having virtually no sleep last night, lol, I feel so yummy this morning…I have a wonderful boyfriend in my life and it feels sublime!

  142.  #142BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 5:31 am

    And Daria, I have tried to think outside the box in my pre RR dating life………..I met a man who was 5″ 6″ because you know I thought I shouldn’t be sooo judgemental about height, etc. but honestly I felt like this BIG AMAZON who was dwarfing him and I didn’t like how it made me FEEL, I have also met up with men that I wasn’t attracted to in any way but at that time I was comparing them to an ex I soooo wasn’t over but am now…………..God does this have to be so hard and so difficult, why can’t it be like the movies, you know you meet, you are attracted to each other, you fall in love, you get married and live happily ever after…………..

  143.  #143Renee on October 3, 2010 at 5:33 am

    I meant, the upshot is that “we’re NOW officially girlfriend and boyfriend”…hope that wasn’t a Freudian slip, lol.

  144.  #144BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 5:36 am

    #140 Renee

    sniff sniff…………oh Renee I am SOOOO friggin happy for you, those are sniffs of joy!! I sooo want this for myself, I am NOT jealous just envious……

    I am so thrilled and happy that you and Blondie have worked it out, I told you I liked him 🙂

    Barb x

  145.  #145Ella on October 3, 2010 at 5:55 am

    I can so relate to your comments about height… I am 5ft 8, alomost 5 ft 9, and taller with my heels on. I am not fat but I am certainly not skinny either. I have always had a real issue about dating guys who are shorter than me and it has been a huge turn off.

    When I started CD-ing I decided to give shorter guys a chance. Now I cannot say that the issue just melted away and suddenly I was ok with it. My heart would still sink when I saw that a new guys was so much smaller than me and I sooo know what you mean about feeliing like a HUGE amazon warrior. And I felt so unfemine…

    Anyway, guess what, Mr date guy from the other night… the one who I am feeling REALLY attracted to… he IS shorter than me. And not just a bit… I mean he is short. And I am still attracted to him… so go figure. I still feel slightly odd when we are walking somewhere together but when we are cuddled up it makes no difference whatsoever.

    I think it helps because he is stocky… and also he has a big personality! So these seem to make a difference.

    Anyway, just thought I’d share… maybe just don’t rule people out. And I guess we get to practice feeling feminine with these shorter guys even when circumstances would usually make us feel otherwise.

  146.  #146Renee on October 3, 2010 at 6:24 am

    Barb — Thank you for the sweet note. I feel pretty lucky right now:-).

    And I totally get where you’re coming from about the height issue…I went out w/a Pilot a few months ago who was only about an inch taller than me (without my heels on) and was also slight in build (kind of like a jockey, lol) and I just couldn’t get past it.

    On the other hand, given the situation I’m currently in, I can’t say enough how important it is to give some guys a chance that you’re just “sure” are not your type…as you know, I just wasn’t feeling that special feeling about Blondie at first (just as Rori has said she wasn’t initially interested at all in her husband) and I only continued going out with him because I was trying to stay true to CD principles and have 3 men in rotation and he was sweet and treated me well. Wow — what a difference a few weeks can make! lol.

  147.  #147Hopeful on October 3, 2010 at 6:26 am

    Dear Rori, I emailed you a few months’ back to ask what you thought of dating a much younger man; I did have a look on your blog to see if there was an answer, as I appreciate you get so very many emails, but I couldn’t find one, so apologies if you have responded. We met on the ‘net around April and are now talking on the phone every weekend for an hour or two. We have both never married and both would like to find someone. He is 41 and I am 53. I believe he is a decent man, and he initiated the contact/phone calls, but since I cannot have children, I am worried a younger man might tire of me and meet someone younger who can have children. I had a lovely boyfriend before who was 4 years older; we didn’t sleep together because I said I preferred commitment first, but he would never commit and it ended because he persistently ran around and admitted to sleeping with other women. I have joined a website and am trying to get into circular dating and have now met this younger man who seems keen on building a relationship with me. I don’t want yet another friendship – I want to be taken seriously by a responsible man. Thanks so much for your advice.

  148.  #148life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Amy, Honey,Ella, Barb in Oz, Daria,I am very glad we are having this group discussion about circular dating. So many very wise comments, that are so helpful to me to really “get” the wisdom in CDing!

    I now feel that CDing will separate the men from the boys, and better to find out sooner rather than later.

    And also that it is not about finding THE man, but learning more about yourself, “what you did wrong that was never your fault in the first place” (LOVE that!) (I also love, “you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person”)

    I do feel that CDing is a very lovely, gentle, traditional, feminine way to help and guide men to be men again, so it is good for them too.

    What I am seeing is that there are a lot of confused men out there. They need our strong uncompromised feminine Siren energy to return to the natural and beautiful order of things, and we have to be very secure in ourselves and know what we want for that to happen, another way that CDing can help.

    I do know that I am not going to CD the guy who last night wrote in his very first message to me to come over to his house!

    But there are three guys who I will go out with. One has asked, i’ll see how it goes with the other two.

    I have so many priority things going on right now that I can’t follow everyone’s situations so closely, but what I am reading is utterly amazing!! to me and so very encouraging….. and I wish for all of us the very, very, BEST!! YAY for Us!

    lots of love,

  149.  #149Wonder Woman on October 3, 2010 at 7:29 am

    I have a question please ladies. Ok so I finally got that I have to observe all Rori’s rules to the latter with no cheating and I’m embracing that. I can feel a difference within me. I have wrote my lists and got my priorities straight. I know what I want but. . . . . .I feel as though my ability to remain dedatched from any one guy is flawed. I find the more I try to ignore one particular guy the more I think about him. I can go hours even days without it bothering me and then I get one bad moment and it all just falls apart and I’m contacting him in the hope he will end it or something. The desperation I feel for a hint of contact. . . .!! I feel like I have a compulsive drive to pursue any man that doesn’t want me. It’s never the men that step up always the men that don’t. I even know I shouldn’t be doing it and I don’t even want to so how do I stop myself??

  150.  #150Renee on October 3, 2010 at 7:43 am

    Wow, Wonder Woman, you’re describing my dating history to a “t”. Rori says that as you work on yourself and your life and loving yourself, you will inevitably start attracting more, high quality men who WILL step up, but if you’re chasing after the men who’ve shown they don’t want you (like I did), it sounds like you have some boundary and self esteem issues to work on. it’s almost as if I automatically disqualified the men who really DID step up because it was like they were less desirable or something. I think my issues had to do with having an alchoholic, emotionally unavailable father whose approval and affection I was always trying (and failing) to earn, so I put myself in positions that would repeat that pattern so I could finally “win” with one of these emotionally unavailable men, but it was never going to happen. I had to really get clear about what I really wanted and get better about setting firm boundaries…Rori says once you learn to really say “no” to what you don’t want (i.e., men who don’t call when they say they will, don’t pursue you like they should, etc.) you’ll be able to say “yes” to what you really do want, but you have to be able to say “no” first. What do you think?

  151.  #151Wonder Woman on October 3, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Renee that’s really opened my eyes. Yes thats a perfect description for how I feel about it. I want to win them over. I’m not sure where that stems from. I do have a history of wanting to fix people. I know these men are no good but I am not saying no. I am convincing myself they are part of my CD rotation but how can they be if they are not stepping up to arrange dates etc. That’s given me such clarity. I need to start dropping the men that are just eating up my time and nothing more. Fantastic advice. Thank you.

  152.  #152Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Renee (and RORI- there is a question for your below)
    So happy for you! It sounds like Blondie is a great guy. This question is about terms for exclusivity besides marriage.

    Renee, Please consider thinking about the CDing issue. I was in the same situation as you a few months ago. I met my soulmate – I know we will be involved with each other for the rest of our lives in some way. We finish each other’s sentences. He did not like CDing either – no man really does, but the man who deserves us will compete to get us. He’ll book us in advance so no other man gets a chance. He’ll call, text, email – just to make sure we are still interested. We are constantly on his mind. My man did all of this. I thought he was the one in a million man who loves me so much, he would act unlike other men. As soon as I committed, the vibe changed. My vibe changed to zero in on him. I never really leaned forward technically (I never initiated calls, suggested dates etc.) , but my energy did change. With exclusivity comes a certain expectation from a woman(I am yours now so I expect certain things).

    I still need to experiment to get this right. I don’t want marriage and the ring as the reason to be exclusive, but I admit it is a clear measure and it does feel once a man is willing to step up before God and country to claim you, as a woman we feel safe. I don’t have a clear measure yet that works as well as a ring for that feeling of safety. I layed out what my exclusivity terms were with Soulmate and he met them all with flying colors, until I said I would be exclusive!

    It would be great to hear from who don’t want marriage and but have created their own terms for exclusivity. RORI – are there other terms for exclusivity you can recommend besides marriage? Maybe if you are exclusive dating/sex, you still keep CDing in a way you would if married – flirting with the butcher the baker the candlestick maker to keep the vibe on YOU instead of on HIM. This may be the key. What do you guys think of this?

  153.  #153Ana on October 3, 2010 at 8:39 am

    Hi Rori Raaye

    Im really intersting to know more about your programms, but im brazilian and dont know english very well to understand any cd or any dvd. But i´d like to know if your programms are in portugese or in a book that i can traslate it?
    Hope hear from you soon,

  154.  #154Honey on October 3, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Ladies, thank you for all of your posts! Reading them, I have been through a whole range of emotions and some of them literally made me laugh out loud!

    Amy F, if you don’t want the guy who wrote you on Match, I’ll take him! An email like that would blow me away!

    OK, I have a few guys who want to meet me already and I’m putting it off because of the investment of time. I’m scared of getting even more overwhelmed than I already am.

    I don’t do a very good job taking care of myself. Between work and school and my kids (one has ADHD, one has a mild form of autism and severe generalized anxiety disorder, and one is autistic and bipolar), there is little time for me. I had a chat with my kids yesterday and told them that sometimes I was going to need a break and close my door, and that I couldn’t be there for them if I didn’t take care of myself. They were ok with it, but it will take a lot to make it actually happen. I need to be exercising, but don’t, and my stress level is so high. Yet I know if I don’t take care of myself, I will lose touch with my own emotions and will switch into male-enery mode. Even my job is full of male energy…I’m a behavioral therapist and I’m in school for it…geez, it’s all about CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR. But in my personal life, I want to be going a different direction.

    I’m just venting because I’m scared about adding more into my schedule and not having much more in my life that I can cut out, Maybe it just comes down to an attitude of valuing myself and doing the best I can.

  155.  #155Alonka on October 3, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Hi BarbinOz,

    Thank you for the warm welcome and yes, I can’t wait to hear from the Sirens:)

  156.  #156Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Yes – the best you can. I have a suggestion. You must work out. It’s the key to everything. I understand about the time factor. I do Bikram yoga and it’s the only thing I do. It’s transformed my body and my spirit.
    I would have never made it through the last few years without it. Regarding your kids, take a look at The Harp Learning Institute website. Lisa Harp does amazing work with kids like yours and mine (severe dyslexia and is at the top of his class after working with Lisa for about 19 months).

    This man that Lizzie has helped me to attract is just a dreamboat – world traveler, pilot, former marine pilot, poetic – and is chasing me hard. wow. However, I have my heart open and my head on. I understand my pattern. A dreamboat like this guy steps onto my island as I’m doing my thing, I respond and smoke his man-crack, I get intoxicated and zero in my vibe on him. I have learned through experimenting that for me, when “my type” is in hot pursuit, this is the time to CD more than ever. This is the time to go horse-riding for 5 hours, do double classes in yoga or go to my favorite museum. I feel good about keeping the vibe and the energy on me, on multiple men and not on him and his crack-pipe! So I am about to get on that horse and ride into the sunset for the next few hours – just me and the horse today!

  157.  #157Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Hi Amy, I just arrived – I had to do the Run for The Cure with my Daughter…
    I am so touched! thanks for the wonderful feedback. I am glad you are getting better results! I did a quicky cruise through the posts – wow it filled to 153 so quickly…and saw the note earlier. Great stuff!

    Tina I would be happy to help out. I am working on a report later today – I haven’t got a clue where the questions are that I posted earlier – Amy found them and re-posted them on Friday night.

    There is a new guy on POF, sending me flirty notes – I want to meet him. Lets see if I can lean back enough…

  158.  #158Renee on October 3, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Amy F — Thank you for your comments and concerns.

    I think the point you make about cd’ing myself (or anyone else who’s exclusive in a relationship) is a good one…I’ve been getting more involved with my volunteer work and trying to reconnect with old friends to try to gain some more balance in my life and while I have a long way to go, I feel like, for some reason, I’m able to focus more on taking the right path for myself now that I don’t have all the “drama” associated with figuring out whom to date and what he means and if he likes me or not. It’s like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders (at least for now) because I don’t have to let the never-ending string of dates with new men monopolize my time. Does that make sense?

    The other thing w/Blondie is that he’s traveling quite a bit for work in the coming weeks, and this gives me time to focus on myself while he’s away, pushing myself more at work and hopefully making some more time to rekindle my friendships. For the first time in a long time I feel a sense of inner peace that comes from having my love life in a “settled” place instead of in a constant state of turmoil and that really feels right for me right now.

    But I know I must not become complacent. As much as I like Blondie and think we’re going to be together for a long time, he’s simply not going to be there for me in the way many boyfriends are because of his travel/family demands, but that’s ok by me. I’m used to fending for myself and actually appreciate a few nights to myself here and there.

    There are some other women on the blog who are also dating coaches, Tinque and Mercedes come to mind, who are in exclusive relationships of their own but who are living life as “sirens” and are happy with the level of committment they have with their significant others. If one of them is reading this question, I’m sure they could shed a lot more light on this topic than I can because I’m just getting settled into this relationship and still working at figuring it out.

  159.  #159Honey on October 3, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Amy F, thanks for the workout encouragement and suggestions. I need to start small and manageable. There is a yoga class I can take tomorrow…I WILL make time.

    OMG, for those of you that have been following my drama with the guy who broke up with me that I sent an email to….Guess what??? He wrote me back just a few minutes ago. He made such a gracious response, that it brought tears to my eyes. I think that the response would have been totally different without the help of all of you…special thanks to Nikita, Tinque, BarbinOz, and Renee (OMG, this sounds like an Academy Awards speech!). Thanks for reading all my crap and helping me sort through it all, and helping me get to what I was really feeling and what I wanted/needed to say.

    OK Divas, my knee-jerk response is to write back right away, but I’m going to LEAN BACK for once! He did not say anything about seeing each other again, and I think he feels pretty ouchy still, but his response was warm and understanding. He started out, “Thank you Sweetheart for the heartfelt letter”, and closed, “We have this wonderful chemistry and you too are missed. Loving warm thoughts,”

    I really had let this go as soon as I sent the
    email…so I got the joy of being surprised!

    Don’t know if this will lead to anything, but either way, I feel better that I told him how I felt. Anyway, it’s CD time. I will email him back eventually, because I need to acknowledge his gracious response and tell him how it felt to receive it, but I want to lean back at the moment and sit with it. I need to learn to sit with the unknown and be ok with it.

    So glad to be here with you all!

  160.  #160Honey on October 3, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Amy F, thanks for the workout encouragement and suggestions. I need to start small and manageable. There is a yoga class I can take tomorrow…I WILL make time.

    OMG, for those of you that have been following my drama with the guy who broke up with me that I sent an email to….Guess what??? He wrote me back just a few minutes ago. He made such a gracious response, that it brought tears to my eyes. I think that the response would have been totally different without the help of all of you…special thanks to Nikita, Tinque, BarbinOz, and Renee (OMG, this sounds like an Academy Awards speech!). Thanks for reading all my crap and helping me sort through it all, and helping me get to what I was really feeling and what I wanted/needed to say.

    OK Divas, my knee-jerk response is to write back right away, but I’m going to LEAN BACK for once! He did not say anything about seeing each other again, and I think he feels pretty ouchy still, but his response was warm and understanding. He started out, “Thank you Sweetheart for the heartfelt letter”, and closed, “We have this wonderful chemistry and you too are missed. Loving warm thoughts,”

    I really had let this go as soon as I sent the
    email…so I got the joy of being surprised!

    Don’t know if this will lead to anything, but either way, I feel better that I told him how I felt. Anyway, it’s CD time. I will email him back eventually, because I need to acknowledge his gracious response and tell him how it felt to receive it, but I want to lean back at the moment and sit with it. I need to learn to sit with the unknown and be ok with it.

    So glad to be here with you all!

  161.  #161Renee on October 3, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Honey — I’m so glad you got such a positive response! It feels good to me that you had let this go after you sent the email and were able to enjoy the pleasant surprise of his reponse instead of sending it with an expectation.

    Good luck on your cd!

  162.  #162Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Yeah Honey!
    Enjoy your yoga class! I feel happy you got a response from the ex that made you feel good.

  163.  #163Nikita on October 3, 2010 at 11:17 am

    First, I’d like to thank the Academy……

  164.  #164Honey on October 3, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Nikita –


  165.  #165life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 11:50 am

    153 Amy F

    YES!! this is SO what i have to continually focus on….watching that “man-crack” that I am susceptible to, and doubling up on the stuff that feeds MY being, my soul, my life.

    For instance, creating the beautiful sanctuary that is my bedroom. I have made a lot of progress in there in the past couple of weeks, de-cluttering and painting etc. and feng shuing the rest of the house too. I have neglected it for so long.

    There will be huge shifts just from that.

    Then, I will get back to my art. Creating the visual as an expression of my own unique self.

    And dancing!! The wonderful guy I spoke to last night who I am meeting on Tuesday wants to dance with me!

    I heard from the other one who I contacted first. He was starting to do the “let’s exchange all kinds of information in e-mails” thing, and I said, I’d rather meet sooner rather than later, since I cant see your eyes or hear your voice, and he wholeheartedly agreed and wants my phone number and suggested setting up a meeting this week!

    Our putting ourselves first is largely what attracts them in the first place, so when we give that up, and put them first, that large piece is gone, and then….the flame out.

    I have been so triggered and inspired from everything Rori and these blogs, in such a way that the insights and aha moments have been incredible in a way I never experienced, and it is inspiring me to actually practice, and I am definitely noticing shifts.

  166.  #166Nikita on October 3, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    89: Nikita says:

    187: Lizzie says:

    OK sirens, I checked my calendar – I will do on-line profiles on Friday night. This is what I need you to do:
    – don’t begin without me! I won’t be able to find your posts if I am not here yet
    – we will begin fresh – that means don’t even look at what you have already
    – take a bit of time before tomorrow night to answer these questions and all I want is a list – not a paragraph
    – why do your friends love and adore you?
    – what do your friends come to you for – like why do they want you on their team?
    – what qualites do you have that would make you so sad your would die if it were taken away from you?
    – what is truly and deeply important to you?
    – what is uniquely special about you?

    I want lists – long lists!


    Wednesday, 29 September 2010 @ 6:30pm

    Friday, 1 October 2010 @ 6:32pm

  167.  #167Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Alright Sirens, this guy I have been back and forth with all day, made some comment that was tantamount to an invite to come over to his house (we have never met) I sent him back the following:

    that is funny..
    Alas, I am working on a book…just a little one and it must be delivered on Wednesday.
    Reading one by a fire sounds so lovely, maybe one day….’tis a busy week yet it is
    always possible to make space


    oh dear, don’t tell me that you are a merely a big yellow fraidy-cate…you know that you want to..

    Like WTF!! Geeze that hurts!
    so I am sending back this note:

    hmmmm, I am feeling judged and dismayed now, I don’t like that feeling, I much prefer to feel open, respect, welcome, playful, and happy. This is too bad now, what do you think?

  168.  #168Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    this is a terrific experience – in my past life, I would have defended myself, felt badly, capitulated, acted in desperation; this time I am going to annihilate him with my scorpio stinger LOL!!!

    Feedback sirens, I need feedback….

  169.  #169Daria on October 3, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    yay Life-IS (wonderful) – must say ditto! yum yum to yummy shifts…

    i feel inspired to feng shui AND do my art AND dance!!

  170.  #170Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    AmyF: “Our putting ourselves first is largely what attracts them in the first place, so when we give that up, and put them first, that large piece is gone, and then….the flame out.” – This is so, so true!

    I am in an exclusive relationship (unmarried with no intentions of being married) with a man I am passionately in love with. And I believe he is passionately in love with me because I refuse to lose myself in him. I have my own life. I do my own thing. He is ALWAYS welcome to come along for the ride (and almost always does because he enjoys my company and wants to be with me), but so much of what we do is because I am doing it anyway.

    That’s how I circular date myself. I make plans and he’s welcome to join in. That’s how I found yoga in the park and zumba in the park and a cooking class…and next weekend I’m going to an art festival in the city…etc.

    I also smile at everyone and talk to lots of people. When J and I go out, if he’s playing pool or something like that, it’s pretty rare to find me sitting alone staring at the walls. I’m talking to other people and meeting other people. He always finds me and kisses me to either show the world I’m taken (touch of jealousy???) or to show me he’s still thinking of me when he’s across the room (my preference for his reasons…) but in any case, I’m circular dating.

    I don’t date other men. EVER. But I do enjoy life and he is invited…

    Much Love,

  171.  #171Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    so I sent it and this is what he gives back….

    who’s judging you?
    you will be welcomed and respected and you will feel so open, playful and very happy that you may even surprise yourself..

    he not listening….grrrrr…..
    OK now what????

  172.  #172Daria on October 3, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Amy F. – thank you so much for that link to Lisa Harp. I am rather inspired to work there. I’ve been tutoring for many years, and recently had a lil difficulty with a student of mine with dyslexia – although i’ve won the “best with learning disabled children” title in my past job – I really would have liked to help her more.

    I think working with Lisa will bump my skills and its a job I would enjoy. so thanks again!

  173.  #173Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Lizzie: You are much nicer and much better at this than I am. I would say:

    “Busy does not equate to scared, but since you mention it, a guy who can’t take no for an answer and tries to bait me into coming over even when I tell him I have things I need to do is a bit creepy. I wasn’t scared before, but you seem to be inviting that.”

    No “What do you think?”

    But that’s why I struggle with feeling messages. LOL

    (Ps: I hope you use your words and not mine when you respond back. I’m not giving advice to use what I would say…I’m just seeing the differences. 🙂 )

    Much Love,

  174.  #174Daria on October 3, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Lizzie – i feel a bit confused by this… it seems like he’s pressuring you to meet as if getting the impression you’re saying you’re not free..

    I would say… mmm im feeling a bit unheard and a lil angry… i don’t want to meet “this week – insert time here” , I’m free on {insert times here} it might feel good to meet you then…

  175.  #175Alonka on October 3, 2010 at 1:17 pm


    I just emailed you. Thanks for answering my post again:)

    This is the newest chat I believe?

  176.  #176healingsound on October 3, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    ..lizzy, for what it’s worth, just read your comment and didn’t quite get what you meant to say to him..that you were too busy, or that you were busy but could maybe make time for it ? (it was the ‘alas’ that sort of says; too bad, won’t be able to).

    and his answer seems a bit… weird, like teasing and what have you, not sure how I’d react to that but what makes you feel judged?? I would only read his own stuff into that…trying to spur you on. then that may feel a bit turn-offish maybe, to me. like he’s playing games a little.


  177.  #177Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    I can see both perspectives Mercedes and Daria. So lets say, he doesn’t realize he behaved badly – lets see what a blended approach might look like.

    mmmm I am feeling a bit unheard…busy does not equate with “big yellow frady-cate”; and that doesn’t feel welcome and playful to me either. I had suggested I can make space during my rather busy week.

  178.  #178Tina on October 3, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Thanks everyone, I spoke with my family and told them what happened, they say the same thing, NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN!

  179.  #179Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    #167 Mercedes
    Thanks for this post. Your experience is really helpful and gives me hope since I am the flame-out Queen.

    I have a rich, full life. I feel my shift needs to be internal. Yet, I smoke that man crack-pipe and I am a zombie on the inside. I am using a man to fill me up. As I cleaning up some of the challenges I have in my life, I filling the void there with myself instead of a man. Step by step this is what I am doing, and I’m feeling stronger all the time. Does this make sense?

  180.  #180Tina on October 3, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Im still trying to wrap my head around all this. bbl

  181.  #181Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    seems ackward all around. I really dislike being called a big yellow frady-cate – and I even more dislike being egged on when I don’t know the person – feels like manipulation. OH! yes that is it – manipulation runs very deep in my history – that was it, the hot button

  182.  #182Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Tina – I missed it – what are your old posts #s? begin where? is it TN man?

  183.  #183Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 1:31 pm


    I’m not sure I read this correctly, but I feel the guy was joking, and maybe being flirty – maybe being a bit pushy, like men sometimes do.

    I would make a joke back – something like:

    “I’m as brave as they come, and I do what I feel. I feel happy that I will be just where I belong today…”

  184.  #184Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Amy that is terrific!

  185.  #185Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    #169 Daria,
    Lisa Harp is the absolute best at what she does. Her program is unique and gets kids up to grade level and beyond. The kids in her program just soar.

    You should email her:

  186.  #186Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I feel so happy to have done something positive foryou because you helped me so much! This made my day!

    You really are so good at getting to the essence of a person in few words. Quite remarkable talent!

  187.  #187Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    OK here is my next attempt –

    I am as brave and independant as any great lion (we were joking around about him being a lion-tamer). As I dont’ know you, haven’t seen you and heard your voice, being called a “big yellow frady-cate, feels yucky. I had said that I am busy at present and could make space available this week.

  188.  #188Ella on October 3, 2010 at 1:40 pm


    I get the feeling he was joking/flirty too… even so it is a bit pushy for someone you have not met, some guys just don’t get this. And he is not listening.

    I would be very clear and say something like

    Ha ha…not a fraidy-cat one bit… just got other things to do right now….

    If he then persisted I would let him know very clearly that I was feeling uncomfortable.

  189.  #189Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Amy, did I see that you have special needs kids? I do too.

  190.  #190Ella on October 3, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Apart from the lone random text I recieved from Mr date guy last night saying “are you asleep? x” to which I replied “I am awake. x” I have heard nothing. He said he would call yesterday.

    I am just going to riff…

  191.  #191Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    AmyF: Yes…that makes complete sense and I love your steps! I also love your comment to Lizzie. I agree with her…it is PERFECT!

    Lizzie: Yeah…I wouldn’t recommend other women use my words most of the time (sometimes, yes. And I do give good advice a lot of the time, but I am absolutely horrible at choosing the right words to use when in situations with men we barely know. I’m much better with men who can handle the “spark” I carry and are still around after the flames die down…those are the guys I find most attractive anyway, but no…for the most part…I think women should steer clear of the exact words I would use if it were me).

    I’m really, really good at putting a man right in his place and stopping any issue (whether true or perceived on my end) in it’s tracks. Works well for me since I’m alread in a relationship and don’t want too much extra attention from men, but if I were dating…well…let’s just say it could be quite a road block for a man. LOL

    Much Love,

  192.  #192Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    yep = I can crumple a man – drop him to his knees… But that doesn’t serve me well when I am trying to date LOL.

  193.  #193tinque on October 3, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Renee and AmyF – I posted this on the last thread and will post here as well re: CD when exclusive.

    When you are exclusive with someone, you CD by being open and welcoming to any and all as much of the time as you can or want. You smile at the checker or the cute or not so cute guy in the produce section or standing in line at the coffee shop. You do the 5 second gazes if you feel inspired. You use your feeling statements. In essence you flirt a little a lot of the time.
    As for staying a siren, what I just wrote is part of this, a big part. For me it’s keeping my heart open and vulnerable all the time, even when I hurt, even when I feel sad or depressed or irritated or cranky.
    I still feel excited when I hear K’s footsteps at the door when he comes home every night, and I run into his arms, every night.
    We still very touchy feely and affectionate, have great sex, and we’re still exploring. Maybe you saw the FE discussion yesterday.
    I don’t dress perfectly all the time, nor is my make-up always on, but he loves this maybe more so, the natural sleepy just awakened look, kinda rumpled. It’s the smile and the energy within that he sees.
    Yet I love to dress nicely, feminine, so I do this too.
    It’s again in your energy. If you feel good and sexy and luscious, this is what he will feel and see.
    Does this help?

  194.  #194Ella on October 3, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    I feel cross, really angry… yukky!!

    Urrrghhh, Grrrrr… why hasn’t he called. Why do I feel like this? This is yukky! Why am I so caught up.

    Feel confused, hurt, angry, again… why why why… yuck, yuck yuck. My energy is f*ck*d – I feel off kilter!

    I feel a big knot of yellowy, red anger in my chest (eeer, like a wound!). I feel anxious. I feel worried.

    Feel disappointed, sad, let down, frustrated.

    CONFUSED, CONFUSED, CONFUSED. Don’t understand.

    Is it my fault? I am bad, I am yuck, not good enough, but why… of course I am, I am good enough silly! lol.

    Not my issue but still confused.

    I feel humiliated, caught up, trapped. want to be free… I feel judged, again… why?

    WTF is happening here?

    Don’t like these feelings, want them to melt away.

    I feel FURIOUS, beyond reason for this situation… REALLY FURIOUS!!! Raaarrrr- bastards! sooooo angry! why – is it something from before? is it pounds of anger built up?

    Want to bash him, bash him bash him… oh dear, poor him, my vibe must not be good right now… it is not his fault.

    Ha ha, now I made myself laugh.

    Oh dear, why am I so cross… breath.

    But I feel angry, I feel let down. HE has let me down, idiot, idiot, idiot.

    Why do I feel like this. Allow my feelings. It’s ok, I am ok. I do not need to rely on one man… and I still feel let down as I wanted to rely on him!!

    WTF… why, why should I rely on him?? I want someone to rely on. I am so angry with men.

    I feel let down, The person I thought I could rely on before was gone. I felt abandoned.

    I want to be free. to be strong.

    Oh I do love my feelings really! Bu not really, better to be a robot.

    I think I will wear my keyboard out.

    Feeling a bit better. just keeps coming…
    like a play. really. maybe learning something.

    Feelings so strong sometimes. No good to push them down.

    Still feel anxious…. ball inside. strong, red! forceful, frightening.

    I don’t know if I can do this.

    But of course I can silly 🙂 – smile to myself.
    Love to myself.

    Love is pink… and warm, like a sunset.

    Mixed with rage though… still in my stomach/chest.

  195.  #195life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    167 Mercedes

    I said that 🙂 (but it could have been Amy or any one of us Sirens..we are all so fly!!)


  196.  #196life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    187 i mean

  197.  #197life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    sorry, no, it WAS 167

    who said they have ADD kids ??

  198.  #198life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    168. Lizzie, you could always opt out and see if he reaches out again. These kinds of exchanges challenges us and help us practice. I was considering going toe to toe with the guy who asked me the same thing in the first email….Come over now to cuddle, watch scary movies and drink margaritas…..hey, now, i didnt have to take it literally either, i’m just realizing…it’s just a thought, just a scene….it could be “come over” like “come a little bit closer youre my kind of man, so big and so strong, come a little bit closer, i’m all alone and the night is so young……”hahahahahaha

  199.  #199Ella on October 3, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Ahhh, and guess who just signed on FB… knew I shouldn’t have added him!

    Feelings were subsiding then fizzed up again as soon as I saw his name… so silly, like a teenager.Probably won’t even remember his name in a few weeks.

    Then I felt akward, didn’t know what to do. Wanted to write to my friend that I want to meet him in London on Tues, but was I doing it so date guy would see? Feel unsure, questioning myself now.

    But I may sign ack on soon and send it anyway cus why the F shouldn’t I? Feel indignant.

    I do want to meet my friend.

  200.  #200Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Life: I’m confused. I was referring to Amy’s comment:

    “I’m as brave as they come, and I do what I feel. I feel happy that I will be just where I belong today…”

    Much Love,

    PS: What about ADD? Did I miss something? I don’t think I posted about that…although my son was diagnosed with it in 5th grade…

  201.  #201life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    asked you if you are a fraidy cat ?

    Yeah, i’d probably say something like,

    “Why? Should I be? Be afraid , be very very afraid ?”

    A woman should ALWAYS be cautious speaking to men on these sites, dude! So you just made my danger instincts go on alert ”

    just riffin’

  202.  #202life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    196 Mercedes,

    I wrote the comment you were referring to at the top in #167

    As for ADD I was hinting that i have some myself.


  203.  #203Honey on October 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    I have an ADD kid… and a kid with Asperger’s (mild autism) and an anxiety disorder, and my 3rd kiddo has autism and bipolar. You’d think it would scare the men on Match off when I tell them, but it doesn’t. Amazing! It must be because I am so hot that it doesn’t matter! lol

  204.  #204Jo on October 3, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Hi Rori,

    I’m overwhelmed by your site, don’t know where to start. I am in a short-term financial bind and can’t order your series until the end of the year. I broke up with a guy in May, after 4 years of an on and off relationship. He was separated, had filed for divorce, but never went through with it. He went back to his wife, even though she is very abusive and hurts him and his kids alot – right after telling me I was the best thing that ever happened to him and the worst thing he ever did was go back to her the previous time. She initially was the cheating spouse, said she hadn’t loved him for 18 years and told him to move on. He did. We had a lot of good things going for us, but obviously not enough. I love him tremendously, I know he loves me too, and yet he chooses the one who spurns him and hurts him – she promises to take away everything that matters to him as far as money, kids, home, job, family, friends, etc., and she only acts kindly towards him on payday and when she wants something – she calls it “paying the rent.” He still tries to contact me, without leaving her – I haven’t responded to his emails, facebook posts or calls. He lives on the East Coast and I am in the Midwest – I thought he had given up, but he is planning to come to my office in Oct and Nov. We work for the same company. He does not need to come to the office, it is an obvious ploy to make contact. I would love to have him back unencumbered, fully engaged and forever, but I imagine that is a near impossibility. I don’t know where to start to get over him, mostly because I hoped I never would have to. Is there any hope? I did all the wrong things – panicking, calling him when he started to pull away – I didn’t lean back and I built my world around him, making it a tighter and tighter circle – not like me in past relationships – but then I never felt so connected to my ex-husband. We were married 28 years – very abusive and lonely existence. I don’t have a circle of men around me. I’m attractive, 55, no single girlfriends, shy about going out alone, etc. What direction should I head in? Where do I start? Can you give me some help? It is incredibly painful to be without him. He called me every day and we traveled all over, it was fun and fulfilling and very sweet, at the same time it was lonely and undermined my confidence because he didn’t divorce. Thank you for any advice you can give. Jo

  205.  #205Honey on October 3, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    OK Sirens, I just gave a guy on Match my phone number when he said he’d like to chat more by email or phone. (We’ve sent a few emails back and forth). I said I’d like that too, and forked it over! If I’m gonna CD, I might as well start…

    Also gonna try to go walking later today with an old BF who is now my BFF. Does that count as a date if he’s just a friend now? At least I’m getting in some exercise and having fun.

    I didn’t like that “Big Yellow Fraidy Cat” comment. Kinda made me feel scared. Felt like he was trying to lure you to his house. I ALWAYS meet in a public place the first time. Kind of sounded like he was saying , “I dare you!” How old is this guy? Kinda creeped me out

  206.  #206Renee on October 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Good for you, Honey!

    And I agree, Lizzie — that “fraidy-cat” remark was insensitive at best, manipulative at worst. What’s the latest?

  207.  #207Renee on October 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Brenda — Where are you? We’ve missed you these past couple of days:-).

  208.  #208Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Life: I gotcha! Sorry…case of mistaken identity…my brain rarely engages on Sundays! 🙂 Yes…to you…I love that comment!

    Sorry for the error…

    Much Love,

  209.  #209Ella on October 3, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Still feel angry, anxious. why?

    My feelings frighten me. Too inense. Sooo angry, pent up. How do I relax? Maybe need to do yoga!

    Anxiety, but rising. Still so angry at men… and in general – FURIOUS! Why am I so angry? But it’s ok… It is ok if I am furious. It won’t hurt anyone.

    Emotional experiences are good.

    Just hard to be calm now.

  210.  #210life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Ella, like you say, i feel feeling my emotions is good. I then try to follow a practice of not identifying with these emotions, because they come and go, like thoughts. If it is a deep seated emotion it will linger, and keep coming back, but that is OK too. I just sink into the depth of it, label it, feel it, maybe get an insight flash, and then let it go. In this way, I develop empathy and compassion for MYSELF which is where it needs to start before you can be truly compassionate for others
    Check out “Start Where You Are” Pema Chodron

  211.  #211life_is_too_short_to... on October 3, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    The thing is to not “dwell” or get lost in identifying too much as the subject in our stories. Not very easy to do!

  212.  #212Rori Raye on October 3, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    So sorry – we’re working on a Spanish version – but I know that won’t help you… It would be GREAT if you knew anyone who wanted to translate my Have The Relationship You Want ebook into Portugese! Love, Rori

  213.  #213Renee on October 3, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Mercedes and Tinque — Thank you so much on your insights into cd’ing yourself when you’re in an exclusive relationship. My perception of you both is that you are very ‘sireny’ in the way you live your lives and the fact that you’re in committed relationships doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll lose yourself, especially if you’re making it a point to keep your focus on you.

    Maybe it’s because Blondie is travelling so much for work these next few weeks, but I feel like the fact that we’ve agreed to be exclusive is actually more freeing for me in my quest to make my life more fulfilling on its own — like now that I don’t have to focus on the drama that ensues from juggling multiple dates that I can feel more free to focus on me and my life while he’s away on business. At least, that’s the way I’m looking at it. Does that resonate with anyone else?

  214.  #214Rori Raye on October 3, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Jo – just start reading…look at the categories and start…more free help than you can imagine –just read. And then DO the Tools you find. Love, Rori

  215.  #215Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Lizzie, Mercedes –

    Yes -I have a dyslexic child – who is really no longer dyslexic. I got moderated when I answered Daria’s comment about Lisa Harp at the Harp Learning Institute. Daria, if you have a talent for this, it is very gratifying work. This program is very effective.

  216.  #216tinque on October 3, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Renee – Another thing which come to me is this. Miss M and I have very different relationships. She and J go out a lot, alone and together, and they both work in high powered jobs which takes them both away on business trips.
    K and I are very much attached at the hip for want of another expression. Neither one of us goes out without the other. I see my friends when he’s at work. Being self-employed helps here. And he doesn’t go out at all, never a boy’s night, his choice completely.
    Maybe it’s because we’re older, I don’t know, or maybe it’s just how we are. We both would rather be with each other during down time. Even if we’re both on our respective computers doing our own thing. We’re still next to each other, like right now, his hand on my knee.
    It’s cozy. It’s really nice. Maybe boring to some, but not to me. We still have dates. We still have fun.

  217.  #217Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Thanks so much. I feel so warm about your relationship – Mercedes’ and Renee’s too. Great models to follow. I understand better the flirting nature of CDing if you are not actually physically “dating” multiple men.

    What did you use in place of the classic girlfriend speech. “I don’t want to be a girlfriend, I feel good about a committed, marriage relationship and until a man comes along who wants this with me, I am dating.” What did you use in place of the marriage statement?
    Thanks, again everyone!

  218.  #218Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Ana: I wish so much I could do it for you! I’m learning Brazilian Portuguese…very slowly. Maybe someday I will be able to translate for you. That would be REALLY super cool!

    Yes, Renee…Tinque and I do have different relationships and both J and I traveling so much probably makes that difference. We do enjoy the time we have together though and when one of us has an idea for something different, the other is always invited along for the ride. For example…last night…J wanted to go camping. So I went with him. We didn’t go any further than the back yard, but still…we went camping together. (And I’m not a camping sort of girl…) 🙂

    Much Love,

  219.  #219Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Amy: “What did you use in place of the classic girlfriend speech. ”

    For me, I didn’t use anything. It was different for me. J cheated on me and I walked out of his life. I broke his heart as much as he broke mine. When we finally ended up back together (after almost a year of him calling every day and trying to get me back) there was no speech needed. It simply was. We were spending the rest of our lives together and I didn’t have to give a speech to get that level of security with him.

    Sorry I’m not much help on that, but if it were me, I think the same approach applies:

    “I don’t want to be a girlfriend forever. I want someone I can spend the rest of my life with. There does not ever need to be a ring or a piece of paper or a party or a ceremony or a name change, but I DO need a partner committing to spending the rest of his life with me…and no other. Is that person you?”

    Wow…maybe that’s leaning forward…

    It’s just that without the last question, that’s exactly what J and I have…so for me…it fits.

    Much Love,

  220.  #220tinque on October 3, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    AmyF – I didn’t need a no girlfriend speech. Since marriage was not my priority yet loyalty and faithfulness were, this was unnecessary.
    I knew he felt as I. He was always looking for his own “the one”, and once he found her, even though she had some major baggage, he just knew though he reserved some time and space to see if she, me would, could work through the “stuff”.
    Once it was clear I wasn’t wanting to date others, that was it. He has never dated multiply, and neither have I. And I did work through my “stuff”, and he came along for the growth ride.
    I didn’t know Rori pre K. But even if I had, I don’t know if it would have changed anything here.
    It’s like we just knew even though there was hesitation and fear coming from us both. There was still a knowing.

  221.  #221BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I still haven’t replied to the emails on POF, the one who called me Aunty Barb and the Ferry guy who wants me to phone him first, do I reply or shall I just delete both of them?

    Is this an opportunity to use some feeling messages.

    Aunty guy

    I feel misunderstood, I felt patronised and insulted not angry.

    Ferry guy

    I feel that I am not being listened to.

  222.  #222BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    #178 Tina

    GOOD GIRL!! I hope you are feeling much better now. Sharing with your family is good and will help you to feel safer.

  223.  #223Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Ella, maybe you could have responded – asleep? actually I am in deep rhem at the moment and know that you are only a dream…. LOL!

  224.  #224Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Life – frady-cat – ha! I am scorpio – I can annihilate him just for fun

  225.  #225Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Amy – how do men handle it when you tell them that your kids are special?

  226.  #226Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Barb – how about:

    I have taken the time to review your profile and your message and at the present time, I don’t feel there is a good fit here. I would like to thank you for your interest and hope that you find the lady of your dreams.

  227.  #227Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    oh! I am going to have lunch with frady-cat guy at the end of the week. LOL! this is the funniest thing…

  228.  #228Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Barb –
    Ferry guy – I have taken the time to review and reflect on your profile and notes to me. I am not feeling the glimmer of a tiny connection that I would have hoped for so at this time, I shall say thank you for your interest and wish you much luck in finding a lovely lady to love.

  229.  #229Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    did you guess that people like getting letters from me???

  230.  #230BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I have taken the time to review your profile and your messages and at the present time, I don’t feel there is a good fit here. I would like to thank you for your interest and hope that you find the lady of your dreams.

    Thanks Lizzie, I just added an “s” to the end of message… that OK? I just feel I need to draw a line in the sand with these 2 guys……..I don’t know why I do that, if I was a real Diva, wouldn’t I just ignore them both and say NEXT!! When I say the word Diva I always imagine Mariah Carey in my head LOL!!

  231.  #231Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    I actually get thank you notes for the thank you notes that I send – I find that hysterical, but my awesome grandmother would have been incredibly proud

  232.  #232BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    God Lizzy you are good with the messages!!! And good luck with the liontamer and his yummy biceps, 6 foot tall too, I can see you wrapped up in those manly arms getting the biggest hug 😀

  233.  #233Honey on October 3, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Lizzie –

    What kind of special needs do your kids have? How old are they?

  234.  #234Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    to the young’uns – I have so much fun….

    In response to “you are hot!”

    Thanks cutie! Your grandmother would be so proud of you honouring an experienced lady like that. Now let me give you a tiny bit of advice – and consider this comming from an 50-year old “hottie”, do not ever let yourself go! The 50-year old men on here can’t look down to the floor and see their special bits, and maybe not even their feet! Oh, so sad….
    Having said that, good luck to you in finding someone to love and thank you so much for the hot thoughts 🙂

  235.  #235Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Honey –
    Daughter – central auditor cognitive processing disorder, working memory problems, reactive attachment disorder, post traumatic stress

    I have terrible problems with the school around her accommodations and it costs me hugely = she is 14 and can not read. There is a woman here in Toronto who has a special brain re-training system that will teach her sound/shape recognition – I am just organizing the school for special permission to have her go for training

    I have done an enormous amount of work on the PST RAD and would say she is doing incredibly well on self-containing and managing anxiety. The other day when her tutor told me she had lied, and I brought it up – my daughter actually said “oh that hurts!” I almost jumped up and kissed her! She is doing very well on that front. I do massage therapy with her; and did a great deal on sensory integration when she was 4-10; she is a swimmer – swimming has “saved our lives”

    I am a “worrier mom” in the adoption community

    My son is 12 – RAD PST and has great difficulty with numerical processing – I decided not to have him assessed on the LD side as I can work with him more easily than my daughter.

    Oh, that is one of the reasons I “technically” know so much about non-violent communications

  236.  #236Honey on October 3, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Lizzie –

    Are you new to dating? I have been on and off Match for several years and have had relationships with great guys. Looking back, if I had known about RR and had this community, I might still be with one of those guys. But my kids are very rarely an issue. I had one BF break up with me because of them (and he later regretted it and tried to get me back. Too bad for him). I usually don’t even talk to anyone on the phone unless I’ve told them about my kids first. My kids have screened a few guys out, but surprizingly, hardly any! And guess what? The guys that stayed were great guys. I have a better experience with Match than most…and I think it is partly BECAUSE of my kids. I’m starting to wonder if I should even bring up my kids before I meet someone because it is so RARELY an issue. My old BFs and dates have always been great to my kids with the exception of the one.

    I’ve had all this drama with the guy I want to see again, and got such a wonderful response back. I want to share with you that I did not say anything about my kids in my email to him, and yet he said this in his email to me…

    “As I said before, I had a special connection with your daughter X, she brought out feelings of protection and warmth in me. I enjoyed all your kids.”

    I only date guys who are fathers and are involved with their kids. And honestly, this is not an uncommon response. The BIGGEST surprise in dating has been how accepting the men have been of my kids. Most of these men have been high-income professionals. But they have also been compassionate caring guys. If someone is not interested because of your kids, let ’em go. You need someone with the potential to be there for you AND your kids.

  237.  #237Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Thanks Honey – your message inspires me and brings hope. Now that my kids are teens, I am having less difficulty with men – which is terrific. Rori did a main question thread about what to say with regard to dating and kids. I have had terrific support and feedback from the sirens here. I have found myself self-selecting away from men whose kids are grown and have grand children, are retired and travelling. Because I don’t fit that lifestyle. I feel much more comfortable with men whose children are closer in age. Also, there is no father present in my children’s lives – the father chose not to continue. So contrary to the Rori-way, I am the one who does the “drive to the guy” experience because that works best for me. I haven’t had much opportunity to bring home a guy – I just haven’t met a guy who has sticky-ness yet. There is one guy I am very interested in so far – Family Guy; he is working out of town right now and has twins age 11 one of whom is 100% disabled – feeding tubes etc. and he has them 50% of the time. So we have had sporadic dates. I am continuing to date others – who knows – Family Guy might step up or he might disappear. Although there is no reason for him to just disappear yet.

  238.  #238Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Lizzie –

    Thanks for being willing to share about your kids – I forgot to tell you that.

    There is a bigger issue that I have had that is related to my kids and dating. I’ve wondered if others have the same problem and you are the perfect person to ask.

    I find that I am so busy due to work, school, and the special needs of my kids that it is extremely difficult to take care of myself. Also my stress level is so high. The kids have so many needs and take up so much time. It’s SO HARD to be emotionally in tune like I need to be. It takes a lot of MALE ENERGY to take care of my family. It takes a lot of male energy to do my job as a behavior analyst, which is basically all about CONTROLLING behavior. My kids have great school programs now, but there was a time in the past that I practically felt like had to grow testicles in order to be able to advocate for them. I have so much to MANAGE all the time. And so often, the only way that things happen is because I MAKE them happen. So when I’m stressed, and too busy, or anxious, I try to MANAGE my man. It is so hard to shift all of a sudden into this feminine energy with a man when I’ve been out there slaying dragons on my own all day and night. And it’s so hard to trust someone else to be there for me. And yet, the thought of NOT having to be the do-er/giver/fixer all the time is so appealing. It seems like a dream – so much so, that I can hardly imagine it.

    You have kids with some pretty significant challenges, and you’re out there educating yourself and working so hard for them. I know how draining that can be, especially as a single mom. Do you find that you have the same issue with staying with your female energy?

  239.  #239Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Honey – my gracious goodness – I want to hug you.

    I am a solo mom
    I am self employed
    I have humongous debt
    I “gave away” everything so that I would not have to pay spousal support
    I had to change my business because I could no longer muster the emotional energy it took for me to be a workplace crisis counsellor any more

    I know about exhaustion
    I know about MANAGING THE WORLD

  240.  #240Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    It is actually my “story” that usually scares the shit out of others – let me compose some thoughts on how I have mellowed and become happy over the past few years – there is likely a gem that will be helpful for you

  241.  #241Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Balance – there are a few things that I do to really keep the equilibrium :

    – balance to me means that everything I do is aligned with my core values: creativity; freedom; fairness; humanism; getting to yes – harmony; health and safety

  242.  #242Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Ooooo…Family Guy sounds GREAT! It’s nice to be with someone to whom you don’t have to explain everything. My kids’ dad isn’t involved either. He is totally disabled with Bipolar Disorder and has only supervised visitation. There’s the genetic link for ya…my kids didn’t fall out of the sky with all that stuff. My kids are teens, too. My daughter is almost 15 but will never be independent. My boys are great about watching her for me, though, so I can go out. My folks are great backup, too.

    I self-select, too. I want someone roughly in the same place in life. I’m almost 49, so a lot of guys who are a little older are done with the kid thing. BUT, the guys that still DO have kids are also looking for someone like me. I had one BF who’s kids were grown who once took me on a cruise because he thought I needed a vacation. Almost got engaged but he had a change of heart…he has a bad attitude about marriage. But he is still a close friend…just no “benefits”.

    Sometimes running away childless and carefree to a tropical island does sound nice…hmmmmm…a girl can dream.,,

  243.  #243Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Are you really able to keep balance??? I have tried and tried but have never been able. 🙁

  244.  #244Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    One of the things I did within a few months of my flee to safety….was write stuff

    I began with answering this incredibly difficult question:

    What did I want my life to look like, feel like, be like. In order to answer that question I had to break it down:

    What do I want to create for my children to thrive: what do I want our environment to look like, feel like and be like?

    What do I want to create for my friend-life to thrive: what do I want my friendships to look like, feel like and be like?

    What do I want to create for my business/client life to thrive: what do I want my business life to look like, feel like and be like?

    I did this will all my lives, but these are the top 4. I did mine last after kids, business, friends – that set me up for me.

  245.  #245Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    But once you define it, how do you have time to make it all happen?

  246.  #246Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Your dream makes me laugh – remember the VW Flower Power Bus??? You won’t believe it, there was one parked in front of my house a few years back, when I was in the depth of a terrible time, and it was for sale!!! Oh the dreams….driving away…..I call it my running away from home fantasy

    ok back to balance…

  247.  #247Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    Many of the moms I work with (moms of autistic kids) have this fantasy. Sometimes they tearfully confess it to me…I tell them I wish I had a dime for every autism mom that told me that so I could retire! They are always surprised to find out others feel the same way.

  248.  #248Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:30 pm


    As you are a behaviour scientist, you know that getting to yes with trauma kids is IMPORTANT!

    So, that meant training myself in stepping back from natural NO!

    It meant setting the stage for everything in life and it sounded like this:

    We are going to Honey’s house on Thursday. At Honey’s house we will be playing with Honey and her kids Joe and John. We want to have fun! What does fun look like? Kid ABCDE are all smiling, laughing and playing happily together! And what does happy look and feel like? It looks like this…(demo) and what does it feel like? everyone is safe, it feels really good, it feels nice, it feels like smiles comming from our tummy! And what happens when we don’t have that? What happens if we have hitting, biting, scratching, pounding other kids into the ground, stealing, pulling hair….???? Then we have crying, angry feelings in our heads, it feels awful hot, yucky…., Then what happens to everyone??? we have to pack up all our things and go home, no second chances, life doesn’t work that way, we have to go to our rooms because that is the place we are safe from each other…..
    So, what is the plan? the Plan is for everyone to have a totally wonderful time – everyone is smiling, happy, has good feelings in their tummy, …..

    Now that they are teans, we do it slightly differently:
    we are going to John’s house. Good behaviour means we are practicing sitting patiently, listening and answering questions. You are going to get the same questions over and over, you need to be patient with these questions – and what are they??? My kids answer: What grade are you in now? What school do you go to? My how you have grown!? I’ll bet all the other kids are jealous you are so beautiful! bla bla bla….
    Lets practice the answsers….
    What time shall we leave…
    How will we tell each other it is time to leave

    etc. etc.

    The set-up is key to success. If I don’t do set-up, the even is far far to stressful for everyone. This way we can all relax. So this is the first balance thing that works – we plan and practice; then we get to attend and relax

  249.  #249Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    I build stuff in –
    A safe environment means a safe environment for me as well.

    My room for example is zen and the rest of the place is chaos. Interestingly, it is so zen, that my kids actually stand in the doorway and ask permission to entre! Or they flop on the bed beside me and tell me their woes.

    I also made their bedrooms a safe zone.

    I am intense and will/have had melt-downs from time to time. I have dropped everything, screamed that I am so mad I am going to hurt someone if I don’t leave immediately – and I immediately leave the scene – usually going for a walk over to the park. I even did this when they were very young. It scares them I know and that is not usually advised. Nevertheless, it is human. I am back about 10 minutes later. And we talk about it. They behave suddenly incredibly well for a period of time. LOL

  250.  #250Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    My heath is key to success – I am healthy.

    I run
    I walk
    I go to the gym

    without fail – 3, 4 or 5 times a week.

    I run with conscious awareness of mother nature. I do not run with anyone, or a head set, or when other people are around – I am conscious – I feel the air in my lungs, I feel the oxygen in my blood, I feel the grass growing under my feet, I breathe in fall air, I feel love being fed to me by mother earth. I feel my run.

  251.  #251Ella on October 3, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Lizzie re #223 –
    I know! What a bizarre question? I mean as if I could text back if I was asleep!
    Hmmm, now it has got me wondering if there is an issue with my phone… it has been a bit weird recently and another guy this w/e sent me a stroppy tex as though I was not responding… hmmm… can phones get viruses?
    nah, doubt it though – that is surely just me making excuses for him.
    Oh the confusion.
    I am so tired and my brain is to buzzy to let me sleep… where is the off button!

  252.  #252Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    I did spiritual work – I am fascinated with creationist philosophy – the works of Jean Vanier are brilliant reads – and I am not even Catholic!

  253.  #253Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    I took the time to write – all kinds of stuff; stories about my kids, journal about my pain; deep dark poetry; hillarious stories about ordinary events that happen – I see the funny in every day things

    for example my daughter is a swimmer – not a runner. But she had this idea of doing the Run for The Cure today. So I said I would go with her because one of her friends crapped out on her. Since I quite seriously hurt my knee in the spring, we agreed we would walk not run. She was happy because she really hates running. Well here we were among 10,000 runners, and in the first big cluster… so we ran, rather slowly, but we ran the whole race. I couldn’t help laugh as she non-stop grumbled about how she couldn’t believe I was running and had forced her to run, and how life was so unfair, and how could I run anyway because my knee doesn’t work, and and and…all was laughing the whole time

    I can not not look after my physical self – and the big payoff???? When a man says to me “holly sh*t you have the body of a 20-year old” 🙂 😉

    not really, but I will sure take the compliment

  254.  #254Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Oh how do I have time? easy –
    My daughter swims at 5:30 AM 3X a week and 5 evenings a week – I work around that time for a 3 or 5K run.

    I was leaving them alone at home for my runs at age 10 and 8, for 30 minutes and I gave them cell phones and I wore a cell phone

  255.  #255Honey on October 3, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    It sounds like you are talking about proactive intervention strategies. I do this kind of thing every day at home and at work. But all that does take extra time. Everything takes extra time. My daughter has severe motor planning issues…she still needs help in the bathroom, with grooming, etc. I could do everything for her an be done more quickly, but that does not help her build independence, so we take the extra time. My son has severe anxiety…we are always working on that…you know how that goes. It all takes so much time. My kids have come a long way…they have far exceeded anyones expectations. But it didn’t happen by accident. It’s just lots and lots of work and time. And I get lost in that…in the constant push forward to keep everything moving. To create change and keep control over 3 kids with very different special needs. Behavioral intervention is the easy part…finding the balance with my own life is the hard part. Taking time for myself when they need so much is hard for me. It’s so hard to be aware of myself when all my energy is going outward and I’m in the male-type energy. I’m rambling and am probably not making sense.

    Time to go to the store…

  256.  #256Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Lets see, what else did/do I do for balance –

    OH! I hired a wife.
    Yes, I am totally broke. But I made sure she was paid every week without fail.

    My hired wife did the following for me:
    – picked up kids from school
    – got daughter to swimming
    – took son home/or to whatever he was doing
    – cooked dinner for us – actually she just gave us food from her family dinner
    – did laundry
    – cleaned house
    – piched in when I forgot things like….birthday parties, had to travel…. you name it, I forgot it and she picked up the ball

    – my wife worked for me for 6 years from 2/3PM to 6/7PM – we only changed this in July – now she is 1-day a week.

    She saved my life.

  257.  #257Honey on October 3, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    So journaling and exercise has been important for you. Laughter is good, too…wouldn’t have made it this far except that I laugh a lot. My boys crack me up every day. There is always banter going on around here.

    OK, I HAVE to start exercising again…tomorrow. 12:00. Yoga.

    Thanks for the exchange.

  258.  #258Honey on October 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    OMG!!! That is so funny! I always say, “I don’t need a husband – I need a wife!” and people laugh. But it’s true!

  259.  #259Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Well Honey, I think one of the important things is to consider what works for you is not what is written in the books. What I realized is that my respite is in smaller chunks at odder hours and I make sure to build it in. I know where the pressure points are and need to build in time for the big honking surprise meltdown when we were supposed to be somewhere 15 minutes ago.

    As you know anxiety kids, pick up like big giant sponges, the care-giver’s anxiety. So we have to be very calm. So what can you to to be really calm?

    Maybe it is learning how to meditate for 15 minutes every morning before the world begins. Because if you are calm and you are practicing proative intervention strategies, you actually do create space! The time you take up front like that creates safe space for everyone. Maybe you aren’t allowing yourself to feel the safe space. Try feeling it every time now. Take 15 seconds and feel the beauty of the safe space.

    My 15 minutes, is outside running, walking or doing the stairs. I am using that as total me time. Glorious and beautiful. I do not turn it into a do-chore, it is not my male energy.

    I am off to do a body massage for my daughter – LOL!!! I shall think of more ways I look after myself.

    Therapy!!! yes!! I did therapy!! for 3 years. I had to learn all the stuff you teach.

  260.  #260Ella on October 3, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Hmmm, no actually my phone is working just fine! that is me making excuses for him… overfunctioning I think.

    Although in my sleepless state I did watch some Christian Carter stuff on commitment, which seems to have given me some perspective, and make me realise the issues here are not necessarily with me!

    I do not feel much right now. Just tired and a little empty, oh and a lot calmer! Yay!

    Feel like I can cope with this situation now but my mind keeps whizzing off into the future where I am imagining how I will handle it when I do see him and imagining what I will say… trying to control and manage again I would say… trying to get a certain outcome instead of allowing things to unfold… so hard to stay in the present… maybe cus there is nothing going on here right now! lol… bring on tomorrow!

    Damn, controlling, managing, overfunctioning, this is a hard habit to let go of! I feel quite cross and frustrated with myself. And the more I try ‘not’ to think of him the more my mind feels focused on him. So I am not going to try, instead I will use my feelings around him to get to me… access my feelings.

    It is so silly as I will probably forget all about him in a few weeks… how shallow am I!! And peole can feel that. but this is how I feel sometimes around guys. obsessive, for a while, like they are a fad… a comodity, or the latest accessory. I feel like a bitch!

    I don’t want to though. I am ready to move on, want to change and be more free and accepting with people… not put my expecations on them, to know they are not simply here to meet my need, they have their own lives, existance, motivations, needs and insecurities, and to accept them for who they are.

    Need reassurance. Is this normal? Am I doing ok?
    Not quite sure why I need someone to validate me right now??!!

    Weird feeling.

  261.  #261Mercedes on October 3, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Just thought…as a happily divorced mother of three…I would share…

    You’ll see at the end I didn’t write this, but I do see value in the message she’s trying to send:

    I Need a Wife

    1- I belong to that classification of people known as wives. I am A Wife. And, not altogether incidentally, I am a mother.

    2- Not too long ago a male friend of mine appeared on the scene fresh from a recent divorce. He had one child, who is, of course, with his ex-wife. He is looking for another wife. As I thought about him while I was ironing one evening, it suddenly occurred to me that 1, too, would like to have a wife. Why do I want a wife?

    3- I would like to go back to school so that I can become economically independent, support myself, and, if need be, support those dependent upon me. I want a wife who will work and send me to school. And while I am going to school, I want a wife to take care of my children. I want a wife to keep track of the children’s doctor and dentist appointments. And
    to keep track of mine, too. I want a wife to make sure my children eat properly and are kept clean I want a wife who will wash the children’s clothes and keep them mended. I want a wife who is a good nurturant attendant to my children, who arranges for their schooling, makes sure that they have an adequate social life with their peers, takes them to
    the park, the zoo, etc. I want a wife who takes care of the children when they are sick, a wife who arranges to be around when the children need
    special care, because, of course, I cannot miss classes at school. My wife must arrange to lose time at work and not lose the job. It may mean a small cut in my wife’s income from time to time, but I guess I can tolerate that. Needless to say, my wife will arrange and pay for the care of the children while my wife is working.

    4- I want a wife who will take care of my physical needs. I want a wife who will keep my house clean. A wife who will pick up after my children, a wife who will pick up after me. I want a wife who will keep my clothes clean, ironed, mended, replaced when need be, and who will see to it that my personal things are kept in their proper place so that I can find what I need the minute I need it. I want a wife who cooks the meals, a wife who is a good cook. I want a wife who will plan the menus, do the necessary grocery shopping, prepare the meals, serve them pleasantly, and then do the cleaning up while I do my studying. I want a wife who will care for me when I am sick and sympathize with my pain and loss of time from school. I want a wife to go along when our family takes a vacation
    so that someone can continue to care for me and my children when I need a rest and change of scene.

    5- I want a wife who will not bother me with rambling complaints about a wife’s duties. But I want a wife who will listen to me when I feel the
    need to explain a rather difficult point I have come across in my course studies. And I want a wife who will type my papers for me when I have written them.

    6- I want a wife who will take care of the details of my social life. When my wife and I are invited out by my friends, I want a wife who will take care of the baby-sitting arrangements. When I meet people at school that I like and want to entertain, I want a wife who will have the house clean, will prepare a special meal, serve it to me and my friends, and
    not interrupt when I talk about things that interest me and my friends. I want a wife who will have arranged that the children are fed and ready
    for bed before my guests arrive so that the children do not bother us. I want a wife who takes care of the needs of my guests so that they feel comfortable, who makes sure that they have an ashtray, that they are passed the hors d’oeuvres, that they are offered a second helping of the
    food, that their wine glasses are replenished when necessary, that their coffee is served to them as they like it. And I want a wife who knows that sometimes I need a night out by myself.

    7- I want a wife who is sensitive to my sexual needs, a wife who makes love passionately and eagerly when I feel like it, a wife who makes sure
    that I am satisfied. And, of course, I want a wife who will not demand sexual attention when I am not in the mood for it. I want a wife who assumes the complete responsibility for birth control, because I do not want more children. I want a wife who will remain sexually faithful to me so that I do not have to clutter up my intellectual life with jealousies.
    And I want a wife who understands that my sexual needs may entail more than strict adherence to monogamy. I must, after all, be able to relate
    to people as fully as possible.

    8- If, by chance, I find another person more suitable as a wife than the wife I already have, I want the liberty to replace my present wife with another one. Naturally, I will expect a fresh, new life; my wife will
    take the children and be solely responsible for them so that I am left free.

    9- When I am through with school and have a job, I want my wife to quit working and remain at home so that my wife can more fully and completely
    take care of a wife’s duties.

    10- My God, who wouldn’t want a wife?

    Author: Judy Brady (Syfers)

  262.  #262Daria on October 3, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Ella – you are doing great! and i would Embrace and honor your Bitch!! yay!!! Bitch Goddess!!

    she is standing up for You

  263.  #263Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 8:15 pm


    RE: #207 – Hiya! Thanks for asking! I had a full weekend! Living! I went to a POF event on Friday evening, which was disappointing. It was way too crowded and I couldn’t even find a place to stand. And it was way too loud. I felt like my eardrums were in pain. I left after about 10 min. How can you socialize when you can’t hear each other???? Then I went to a bar closer to home, where I found an enclosed outdoor courtyard with a bar and big screen TV! It created a cool atmosphere! It was mostly college kids, but it felt good to get out.

    Saturday I went to a fundraiser banquet for a ministry that helps handicapped people. There were two men at my table with no rings, but they were with older people and I was unable to make eye contact.

    From there I went to an “Autumn Goddess Retreat”! It was a fundraiser for the domestic violence shelter! There were both classes and vendors including yoga, healing sound (hey, Healing Sound! 🙂 ), belly dance, crystal energies, psychics, and so on. I enjoyed my first yoga class and my first healing sound class! It was really fun! And I felt good helping to raise funds for the domestic violence shelter, because my friend went thru their program 3 years ago and they helped her and her kids tremendously!

    Then that friend and her kids came to my house. We played with my 7 week old kittens, carved a pumpkin, and danced to Latino music. They stayed overnight, and we went grocery shopping in the morning, where I saw a friend I used to work with 4 years ago! We talked at least a half hour, and it felt great that she wants to stay in touch!

    Then I slept most of today, and then tonight, Ryan texted me, which was the highlight of my weekend. Just in love with him still. 🙂

  264.  #264Lizzie on October 3, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    How is that Honey? some reasonable ideas for you?
    There is an ebb and flow to the whole deal – and I don’t expect my life to be like someone elses – although that doesn’t mean I am not envious from time to time. In the end, I love the chaos, I astonished at how much I love my children, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. “Goddess” gave us the children we need in our lives but that doesn’t mean I give up my life for them.
    Every morning I lie in bed and think about the priorities of the day, then I just begin juggling. 🙂

    so what makes it all work:

    – a good bottle of wine
    – working on being calm
    – keeping a loving and safe environment for all to thrive
    – a great therapist and my new thing: circle dating
    – focus on yes
    – running and being in nature
    – one hella good laugh
    – awesome sex from time to time – that is actually why I got involved with a married guy; no worries about emotional crap
    – journaling
    – hired a wife
    – live near everything I need
    – my zen bedroom – I had no idea how incredibly important this was
    – reognize when I do too much and back off – I now ask the kids to do more
    – I am happy

    how is that?
    I am working more and more on “being”
    I am working more and more on “I deserve to be in a loving relationship”

  265.  #265Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 8:18 pm

  266.  #266BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Just popped in for a quick THANK YOU to Lizzie, I hope you don’t mind but I have copied and pasted your replies and have a special little folder now with great replies, I just LOVE that reply to the young ‘uns, soooo funny 🙂

  267.  #267Amy F. on October 3, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Ms. M and Tinque,

    Thanks for the information and thanks Mercedes for the speech. I like it!

  268.  #268Daria on October 3, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    i’m feeling a bit sad after a comment from my dad…

    i dont’ want to be treated that way…

    i’ve been crying, and sinking and hugging myself…

    i feel a bit better, but i still feel a lil sad and tight around my cheeks…

    i feel afraid to share my anger… and that i dont want to be treated that way

    and i Dont want to be treated that way

    i love my feelings

    i love my sadness

    i love that this is healing and i can tell

    mm that feels good

    i feel a bit smily

    i love my smile

    i love my giggles

    i love my feelings

    i love my anger

    i love my sadness

    i love my fear

    i love my heappyiness

    i love ALLL my beautiful lovely feelings

    thank yu thank you tahnk you

  269.  #269Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Sorry to hear you were feeling sad, Daria.

  270.  #270Daria on October 4, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Brenda – thank you… i spent a while — about 4 hours id say, being with my feelings…

    and finally asked my dad to speak to him. i felt heard a lil bit on the subject

    i feel a lil better and smily and happy about being brave

    and i feel shaky a lil bit of the fear.. my dad seemed pretty upset… he brings up feeling lots of pain and regrets for not disciplining me more strictly ie beating me more when i was younger, and feeling like a failed parent, etc

    i feel pretty good that i am seeing this as “his issues”

    i felt a lil scared

    i guess it does feel bad to hear my dad refer to himself as a failed parent when it comes to me

    i feel bad about that hmm…

    i feel unappreciated…

    he says that every nite he’s tormented by pain from past things i did and by the present that seems like its not ending

    i felt kinda cool that i did not really feel pulled in too hard by this

    i am better able to hear my dad

    he talks about stuffing down this anger and pain and just now letting it come out

    thats cool

    im definitely not taking responsibility for his feelings

    i told him i dont want to feel attacked

    he told me he didnt have ill intent towards me

    i said i believe it and thank you and that i felt better

    i feel glad that as Rori says, nothing has to actually “be resolved”

    this can be talked about any time, again and again

    i feel a lil better

    shaky because it felt scary to talk about

    my dad said that if i cry for hours because of something someone said, im kinda very fragile and probably do need some therapeautic help

    hehe… i feel glad to know that this is actually a good thing to me… that is that i am able to feel my feelings and communicate them

    also it felt bad that he was saying my mom set a bad example and he did not agree with her not having me do many chores, and that he thinks children should be all day doing chores

    i feel love for my dad

    he’s living in man world

    maybe i can do some surrogate EFT for this pain he feels

    i feel so glad I FEEL FREE!! and am able to babystep this communication!

    even tho i feel shaky as hell right now i also feel like going yaHOOOO

    i talked to him i talked to him

    i noticed i dont really fall into “being flooded” or into defensiveness very much anymore… and this is what’s making me able to communicate this openly

    also he said he’s been feeling close to me these past few days.. i have too hehe


    i feel excited and shaky

    i am babystepping to communicating with my dad woo hoo

  271.  #271Daria on October 4, 2010 at 12:20 am

    hey Ladies – here’s my 2 cents on getting e-mails from younger admirers… Lizzie you are a very clever-messaged lady, yet i wonder if these interactions could be better used to practice Rori feeling messages… in a situation that usually might trigger us to “mommy” mode?

    for example, it’s easy to talk to a young guy saying “you’re hot” and give him advice, and tell him he’s too young for us, in a fun way, yet…

    that’s just it, it’s EASY in that instant to be in boy mode, because hey… he IS younger, he could be like a son … and we feel uncomfortable!

    what i’ve been practicing, though, is that in particular in those situations where its easy to go into boy mode and advice mode, getting into my feelings instead, and into girl mode… has really served me in OTHER interactions that i have after that with other men…

    it’s like im building my capacity to STOP going into boy mode… by practicing…

    so for example, instead of joking or giving the young guys advice,

    i would try something like:

    hi.. i feel flattered by your compliment… and i feel too uncomfortable with our age difference … i’m not available, thank you

    or perhaps…actually give them a chance to interact some more (they are men, after all), as in

    hi … wow… i feel flattered… and im feeling Really uncomfortable with our age difference… i feel unsure about having anything develop here… what do you think?

    then who knows… he may be one of those really mature ones… like the 21 year old in “How Stella Got her Groove Back” (Stella was in her 40’s, he pursued, won her over, and married her I believe)

  272.  #272Bev on October 4, 2010 at 2:35 am

    I know this is not the right place but I have been reading Roris e-mails and blogs for the past 2 months since I split with my partner. I have learned a lot and managed to move on without hurting too much. I met up with him 2 days ago just for a drink as we hadnt spoken for 2 months. My Best friend and her ex husband arrived in the bar unexpected. To cut a long story short, the ex husband told me that his ex wife (my best friend) had slept with my ex while we were together.

    Now 2 days later having not slept I find myself here. I dont know who to trust. My best friend has her version, her ex husband has his version and my ex partner has his version. I feel like I have been hit by a train chewed up and spat out. I now have again deep feelings of Love for my ex partner and want him back, he says it will never work and that he wants children and I cant have them. He also said after he had slept with her he realised he could not stay with me. He says I should never have found out because he knew how much it would hurt me.

    I ended up on the phone to my ex for hours, I poured my heart out telling him how much I loved him and crying. We arranged to meet today. Im still on a rollercoaster emotionally. He now says After speaking last night i think its best we give each other a little space, So if you wish to talk to me ring or text ok i have no problem with that..

    Can anyone give me some advice, other than forget him and move on?

  273.  #273Jane on October 4, 2010 at 3:03 am

    Wondering how much of your course is about speaking with “I language”, and speaking my truth honestly to the man of my life.


  274.  #274Ella on October 4, 2010 at 4:03 am

    Thanks so much for your support. I feel warm and supported from your comments.
    Well done for working through the difficult bit with your dad and embracing your feelings.

  275.  #275BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 4:17 am

    Ya know what I NEED TO DO,is to RUN like Lizzie to make exercise a daily recquestice for me………… much as I hate exercise I NEED TO JUST DO IT…………

  276.  #276BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 4:19 am

    And since finding this RR blog I have put exercise on the back burner of my life…………..BUT I do know how important it is……………thank you Lizzie and all you lovely ladies…………

  277.  #277BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 4:20 am


  278.  #278BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 4:25 am


    To be healthy and whole, to run, jog, walk to even be like Daria and to ride a bike in green high heel shoes………..visions of The Wizard Of Oz going on here………….toooo much time spent online and NOT ENOUGH in real life……………big wakeup call from the lovely Brenda today………………

  279.  #279BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 4:29 am

    I JUST NEED TO DO IT!! To get my a$$ out there………….nothing else matters……….my iPod is f$$$\cked and will cost $99 to fix………………so what?? My time getting out there is more important than mere money!!

    I just need to do this thing for ME MYSELF and I 😀

  280.  #280Renee on October 4, 2010 at 5:41 am

    Brenda — I am so happy that you got out from behind the computer (something I struggle with) and went out to live your life this weekend! I’m also happy to hear you’ve decided not to give up on dating after all!

    That letter from Kenny you posted on the other thread is so sweet — I didn’t really understand prior to that how loving, supportive and accepting he is of you. If I read that, it would feel like getting a full body/soul hug during which someone could see/feel my imperfections but accepted and adored the whole me anyway.

  281.  #281BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 6:33 am

    #278 Renee

    I agree wholeheartedly Kenny’s letter to Brenda was just so loving and supportive, it brought a tear to my eye and I have to admit it altered my whole position about men in jails………it made me feel less judgemental…………….

  282.  #282BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 6:35 am

    perception not position duh…………

  283.  #283MAC on October 4, 2010 at 6:53 am

    I have been dating this guy for 3 months and he is acting so strange al of a sudden. I used feeling messages but he still seems distant and cool! I was away for a weekend for work and only heard from him maybe twice and only because I texted first! I am not sure how to handle this because this seems to be a pattern with me all of my relationships! Do I just not contact him until he calls me? I am at a total loss. He always tells me he is in love with me but lately his actions are not backing up the words! Please help I want to stop making the same mistakes! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result so it’s time for me to try something different!!!

  284.  #284Renee on October 4, 2010 at 7:22 am

    I find myself in such an odd position, emotionally, and I’m scared I won’t do the right thing…

    I realize that I have spent so much time/emotional energy cd’ing this past year that I let my search for love dominate my life. Now that I’ve finally found someone special, I realize how out of control the rest of my life has become while I was busy ignoring it and I need to get my career/friendships back on track. Problem is, I’m not sure I know how.

    I started seeing a therapist a couple of months ago and I’m hoping he can help me with this…it seems like such a monumental task, though, and I’m afraid I may not be up to the challenge. But I’m finally in a good position to tackle the lingering moments of my depression as well as working to broaden my circle of friends and apply myself again to my job and if I don’t do it now, I don’t know when I will.

    I feel so fortunate that I’ve met someone who makes me smile/laugh/feel good and that the “settled” state of things, combined with the fact that he travels a lot for work, will allow me the time necessary to tend to the rest of my life…I realize this is kind of backwards…that normally, Rori tells us we need to have the rest of our lives in order before we meet someone and it’s not like my life is “bad”, it’s just that it’s suffering from neglect like a weed-covered garden and now the prospect of pulling all those weeds seems daunting. But I know that underneath those weeds is the likelihood of a powerfully beautiful garden, so lovely it takes your breath away and I want to uncover that garden.

    Baby-steps, baby-steps…that’s the way you go about improving those seemingly overwhelming challenges. I’m going to start by simply going to the gym today…I was going regularly until a few weeks ago and then I let even that lapse for some reason (I was too caught up in all the love life drama…not good). From there, if I spend even 2 hours today really applying myself at work (not just taking care of the little things that are easy to do, but tackling the bigger challenges that I’ve been putting off), I will consider that a major improvement.

    I don’t know if this situation resonates with any of you, but I realize now that I was hiding behind my lack of a stable love relationship, using that as an excuse as to why I wasn’t feeling happy and fulfilled. But that’s just part of it and if I don’t tend my garden the way it needs to be tended, I will undoubtedly overwhelm my new relationship because it makes me feel so good…I’ve done that before and I’m determined not to do it again.

    I want it all — I want to live my life as a siren and feel joy coming from my heart independent of my relationship…I feel like I was lucky enough to be blessed with a wonderful, loving man in my life to fill that one ‘hole’ and I want to take the positive feelings I have from that and build on them until I feel my life is a bountiful garden full of beauty.

    I can do this…I can. I have a rare opportunity and I want to seize it…God give me the strength and focus I need to help me live the life You have in store for me.

  285.  #285Rhon on October 4, 2010 at 8:06 am

    I just had an eye opening moment. I have always worried about CDing because of my fear of being torn between two men, since I tend to see the good in people. But I understand the importance of doing this for ourselves and doing my best to embrace it and not feel the guilt of liking a new person.

    D has been emotionally closed off and unavailable from the very start. He has come along, but still not open enough for what my needs are. Although, he does show me in other ways that he cares deeply. But he is completely resistant to letting us have more in the relationship and pulled back and we are now ‘just dating’. I am dating others, he is not actively dating others although he has interacted with other women that I am aware of.

    My focus had been on ‘winning his admiration’ back. I wanted the relationship back. I wanted to continue to try and grow and be that special woman to him. But in the meantime, I am CDing and focusing on me and my personal journey, which has had an amazing impact on him.

    But here is the deal…I just met someone new who has a warm and open heart and wanting to take the journey in life. We are very much alike in our thinking about what is important and what we want from the world and what we want to offer to the world. He was amazing to talk to and I am so eager to get to know this person more. We met on a site for people looking to do things together…not a dating site. I find that on the dating site I either find men who want to marry me or want to sleep with me, and I am not looking for either of those things. I want to get to know someone, enjoy life and my time with another human being and if things progress then do…and if they don’t, that is fine also.

    But through meeting this new person, which I have no expectations of anything at this point (I just met him), I see that the relationship that I am yearning with D is much less than I truly want in my life. So why do I want it so much? Why is it so important to me? Is it built on an imaginery relationship that I idealize having with him? Or based in reality to grow to get to? But at this point, it is less than fulfilling. Less than what my standard for life is. And it had not been for CDing, I would not know this. I would only be focused on refilling the cup that has lost some of its volume. But not knowing that there is a larger, more abundant cup that I could have. Instead of a lake, I can have an ocean. It is all relative to your measurement. And sometimes you are not aware that there are other units of measuring your standard because you don’t look in other places.

    I don’t know what this will mean, or how this will change anything. But it helped to bring back my faith in the fact that there are men out there who are more parralel in thinking with me then I thought. I thought I just had a ‘girly’ mind and I need to get over it. But I don’t have to. I can find what I truly want if I have the courage to not settle for less than I want.

    I am so excited to see this again. CDing is the way to it. It is the way to seeing your own personal greatness through someone else’s eyes. We are extraordinary women and should not our definition be measured by a man or relationship that is not filling us. We are to fill us. I try to keep this at the forefront of my thinking because I define my beauty. I define my worth. And I am the only one who can if that away and I dare not to give my permission for it any longer.

  286.  #286Ella on October 4, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Rori and any other Siren’s who are here –

    I need some advice please! I need some help.
    I am feeling so creased up inside about my date from last Friday not contacting me and I feel confused.

    I have posted about this previously and it was a first date with someone I have known vaguely for a while. I had already hung out with him twice prior to the date and he had been so into me, following me around to be with me, and asking to spend more time with me.

    He knew before we hung out that I was circular dating and he knows that a few of the guys in our town are interested in me and that I have been kissed by 2 of these guys (I have posted all about this in another post but too long to go into here). One of the guys is a good friend of his but he turned out to make me feel a bit creepy so obviously nothing else occured, beyond this kiss.

    Anyway, my guy knew this before he took me out. He planned an amazing date, I used all the tools and as far as I could tell it went really well. He was still completely into me, at least this is how it felt to me. I thought from his signals and the words he said, plus his body language and actions.

    We did stay the night together, which I would not normally do on a first date, however we did not have sex, just lots of passionate kissing/cuddling. We stayed at a mutual friends house in the spare bedroom after a house party (after our date).

    Before the date he almost cancelled a couple of times and so when we were together I told him this made me feel slightly less confident and shaky about the whole thing. He told me that he had been quite nervous and he wanted to make sure that I really wanted to go out with him as he couldn’t beleive I really wanted to. He said a few things to this effect and made remarks about how I might end up with one of the other guys… I didn’t really say much when he made these remarks.

    He told me he has only had two very short relationships before. I asked about this and he said it was because he hadn’t met the right girl. It was clear he had made a real effort with me and was trying really hard to do and say the right things. I cannot tell you how much it touched me, it was so sweet. Oh, and I am sooo attracted to him.

    The week before, when we first hung out one of the other guys was there and when my guy had to leave he said “you will end up kissing guy number 2”. I said I wouldn’t as I did not expect to, however guy number 2 did make a move later on that night and I did end up kissing him (well he me and I let him). I felt like a bit of a sl*t and I felt bad! I have been perfectly honest with date guy about this and he knew about it before our date.

    I just get the overwhelming feeling that he sees me as this glamourous women who dates lots of people and is not looking for 1 guy. He kept saying he wanted to spend more time with me. I gave him the no girlfriend speech and did say that I wanted to be married ‘one day’. I am concerned that a gave out a vibe that I was not interested as I was practising the toos for the first time and sometimes just shut down if I did not know how to respond.

    Anyway as our time together was coming to an end he asked about seeing each other again. He asked first what I was doing during the week and I said I was mostly working and would be travelling to the city a few days. He kinda said ‘oh so you will be tired’ and then he said what about next weekend and I said it would be good although I already had plans for the Friday. It felt like he had no confidence that I would want to see him again and so was almost pre-empting this…

    He asked jokingly if it was a date (next Friday) and I kinda smiled coyly and went quiet (it is a date). Then he went quiet and kinda withdrew. He didn’t ask again after that.

    When he dropped me off he said “text me later” and when I was quiet (as obviously I did not want to text him, I wanted him to text me) he kind of faltered and said… “or I can call you later today?”. I said that would be lovely, although I did not look in his eyes as I felt shy and hung over – couldn’t handle it. So the vibe was funny.

    He did not call me later although he did text me late that evening and asked if I was asleep – to which I replied “no, I am awake” and since then I have heard nothing. It is now Monday afternoon here.

    I am so torn. Part of me feels I may have sent off the wrong vibes that I am not interested and desperatley wants to let him know I am. And the other half is trying to follow the rule of leaning back… and wants him to contact me. Surely a man does if he is interested right?? But I just think he is/was, and I don’t think I got it wrong.

    I am so confused right now and really need some good, calming advice. What is going on here??

    Help please Sirens!

    I feel like I might contact him and then a part of me is worried in case he doesn’t reply, or I read it wrong and he is not into me…

    And then there is the part telling me to stick rigidly to Rori’s tools!

    It is likely that I would see him around again in the pub if there was no contact, however I have no idea when.

    I know I am in boy energy here and feeling so scrunched up. Siren in crisis – advice needed please.

  287.  #287D2 on October 4, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Rori: You once stated that you might do a posting on how to CD while you’re married. Have you given this any more thought. As a married woman who works, it’s very hard to CD when your man would like you around him during your free time. I take Belly Dancing Classes and do some stuff with some of my friends who are women but find it difficult to take more of my time to “date myself” as I’m torn with wanting to be with him. Any ideas or pointers on how to CD while being married would be appreciated.

  288.  #288Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:20 am


    RE: #270 – That is awesome you are making progress in connecting with your Dad! That is HUGE, because it’s your Dad! That relationship is so key to relationships with men. I kept baby stepping with my Dad, and I felt so good that we finally started to understand each other! I started to see him as a man with his own dreams and his own hurts, and I saw more and more beyond his anger to his very sensitive, caring heart.

    If you cry for hours over something he said, that shows how much you care about him and how beautifully in touch you are with your feelings. NOT that you need therapy necessarily. Emotions connected with our parents run deep. Few people can get in touch with those feelings like that.

    RE: 271 – Daria and Lizzie…AGE
    About relating to younger men, I agree, and even more…give them a chance. Why NOT meet them? Why not practice Siren skills with them, and who knows??? You might be surprised! I really don’t think age is all that important. I know there has been a lot of discussion on here lately about age, but I think maturity level is far more important. For example, a 12 yr old and a 22 yr old are at vastly different maturity levels. But a 22 yr old and a 32 yr old could be very compatible. I have known of some very successful, decades-long marriages with huge age differences, 20-25 years! Age doesn’t have to hold you back any more than color or nationality! I am going to start practicing this more with older men. I am too quick to chalk them up as old geezers. Yet I look at Kenny, and he’s 59, 13 years older than me. He’s young at heart, so we relate beautifully. It really depends on the individual! What do you think and feel?

  289.  #289Alonka on October 4, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Ella, call him have a nice conversation and say that you’re looking forward tonyour date next weekend. You may want to cancel Friday date if your guy is important to you ( and tell him about it).

  290.  #290Ella on October 4, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Also, I am aware this is probably affecting me more than I would like… why am I so triggered by this situation… why does it feel like such a crisis to me?

    These are quetions I would like to figure out.

    Might be similar to a childhoos situation with my stepdad which was all a bit akward and I never really knew if he wanted me around and was always working for validation.. could be that this triggers those feelings from before…

    and also still sore from the breakup of my relationship.

  291.  #291Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:26 am


    RE: #278 – What you wrote about Kenny’s letter is really beautiful! Thank you! Yes, we made our relational mistakes, and it has matured into a very healthy, loving relationship. I am far more close and trusting of him now than I was during the 3 years we were married. Of course it’s not perfect, but he really loves me. And he proved it over several years when he told me there will never be another woman for him. We have a very close friendship. It has a unique dynamic in that we have never had sex. Imagine, ten years of foreplay! 🙂 We are close in some ways that is soul-intimate!

    And thanks to you and Barb about me getting out there and living. It was good to push myself outside of my comfort zone. I usually stay in my safe zone, but this time I actively sought activities in my area.

  292.  #292Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:55 am


    RE: #279 – Awww, thank you! He is one in a million, for sure. There are not many men in prison who relate like that. I have had many prison pen pals and many of them were wonderful people, but none like Kenny! 🙂 Truly, he doesn’t fit the mold of the type of typical inmate. I spoke with his detective, who knew both Kenny personally and his case. He said if Kenny had gotten justice, he would have been released after 2-3 years. He’s been there over 20 years. 🙁

  293.  #293Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:59 am


    RE: #281 – Have you listened to Commitment Blueprint? That is excellent for helping you focus on staying on YOUR bridge and developing YOUR P.O.P. I struggle with this too. I want to relisten to it…I need a refresher course! 🙂

  294.  #294Denise on October 4, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Brenda, Wow! I am surprised to hear that you were with a man for ten years with no sex! Did I understand your post that you were married to this person? May I inquire what the circumstances were? Glad to hear you are out there circulating- and experiencing life.

  295.  #295Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 9:25 am


    RE: #283 – I tend to get confused in situations like that, too. Here are some feeling messages I saved from other places in the blog. See if any of these resonate for your situation, even if you tweak them a little…

    “Something’s bothering me, and I hate to even talk about it, because I feel so good with you…and it’s important to me that we’re just honest with each other and don’t let things get stuffed down…is now a good time to talk?”

    I’ve been feeling really disconnected from you, and it feels terrible, but it also doesn’t feel good chasing a man around. What do you think?”
    Approaching things from the positive can be very effective. So instead of “you don’t call me or show an interest in me” you could say “i miss your attentiveness.”

    I feel confused about Wednesday and I don’t want to wonder about it…what happened?

    “I feel bad. I heard you say you were going to call yesterday, and I feel let down.”

    “I feel disappointed that you didn’t call when you said you would.”

    You know… I feel unsure bringing this up but… when you said you’d call me and then didn’t, I felt really annoyed. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it when I feel so good with you normally. What do you think?

    I feel weird. I felt excited that we were going to meet and when we didn’t, I felt disappointed. I would feel happy to talk to you and meet. What do you think?

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.

    “I feel bad not telling you, and I feel bad telling you. There’s something going on that I’m not sure about, and I don’t want to talk about it until I know, but I feel even worse being dishonest with you.

    Daria wrote:

    ohh.. i feel a lil weird… i don’t want to help plan the date… that feels a lil bad. I feel good when it when the man is in charge of dating… what do you think?
    it feels better to be the girl and feel curious what the man will come up with to show me a good time… what do you think?

    I feel excited about you. I feel wildly passionate when I’m near you. I feel respect for you. I feel really good when I’m with you, and always look forward to seeing you again. I don’t want to rush things though.

    Ella, what do you think?

  296.  #296Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Hi Denise!

    He has been in prison for over 20 years, and I’ve never known him outside of prison. We met thru the internet in 2000, and we were married from 2003-2006. It was like a marriage in name only. I think openness and honesty are why our long distance relationship has lasted so long. The only reason we never had sex is we were separated by concrete and steel.

  297.  #297Renee on October 4, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Brenda — Thanks for the suggestion. I do have Committment Blueprint and probably need to listen to it again. With my industry in such a slump right now, I’ve begun to doubt whether I can stay in my current position and continue to support myself, though overall, the position is a pretty good fit for me. But what I really want to do is flip houses…I don’t know if that would qualify as my POP, but if the housing market weren’t so tough right now, that’s what I’d like to try. In order to do that, however, I need to get my butt in gear with my job (I need a major dose of boy energy here!) so I can earn enough to possibly invest in a house to flip.

    I’d be curious to know from other sirens what they feel their POPs are? What about you, Brenda? I imagine the ones who are mothers may answer that raising their children to be honorale, independent adults would be their primary POP, but I’m still curious what everyone would have to say…ladies, what is your Purpose on the Planet?

  298.  #298Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 9:52 am


    I am really about helping people, and I have a heart for the down-and-outers. I would like to switch from the pharmaceutical field, working on documents, to being able to volunteer my time to help people find inner healing, whether or not they have money. But in order to do that, I have to have money for living expenses and debt. So my plan is to start a people-helping business (I have an idea, but I’m not ready to share) and grow it to be a self-perpetuating income, to where I only need to invest 10-20 hours a week and can spend the rest of my time helping people volunteer on an emotional, psychological, and spiritual level.

  299.  #299Renee on October 4, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Hi Ella — Brenda gave you some great feeling messages to use as examples. In talking with my ex-bf this weekend, we talked about how I didn’t provide him with the positive reinforcement he needed when we were dating to let him know I thought he was really special. This was in part because I was always kind of so-so with him in the first place, but on a larger level, I have, in the past, been extremely careful with my feelings (both my positive and negative ones…Rori has really helped open me up) and really haven’t let myself express my feelings to the man I’m with, even when they were good so I suspect there were times when the man I was with didn’t feel sufficiently ‘special’ to me.

    It sounds like you did a great job of leaning back and you were staying in your feminine energy, but I wonder if you gave him the positive reinforcement he needs, given the “no girlfriend” speech. If he is slightly insecure (and many men are…it’s up to you to determine whether that’s one of the flaws you’d find acceptable) the thought of competing with other men, combined with perhaps not having enough positive reinforcement about your desire to see him again/hear from him, may have led to his pulling back. Does that resonate with you?

    If you do hear from him again, you could try, “I have been so looking forward to hearing from you again. When I saw you’d msged me, I actually felt butterflies in my stomach because I felt so excited.” And, if you do see him again, you can make it a point to say, “It feels so good to be with you” or “I feel so happy to see you”.

    I don’t know what the answer is — I feel that Rori might tell you that if he were really “the one”, the idea of your dating other men wouldn’t scare him off. But I also think that men who aren’t quite as confident may have a moment’s pause when they hear that, and I can understand that, actually.

    If you lean forward at this point, you may be setting a terrible precedent in which you have to do the majority of initiating throughout the course of the relationship and that’s not a good dynamic. On the other hand, if you feel like you might not have made it clear that you wanted to see him again, you could go so far as to send him a txt that says something about what a great time you had and how much you’re looking forward to seeing him again. But after that, if he doesn’t initiate, you’ll have to just let it go…you definitely want a man who’s willing to pursue you, right? What do you think?

  300.  #300Renee on October 4, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Interesting, Brenda. That sounds so worthwhile. I’d love to hear some other sirens’ Pops.

  301.  #301Rori Raye on October 4, 2010 at 10:12 am

    MAC – 3 months is where things either break down or get serious. that’s why you see it as a pattern for you – because it’s a pattern for everyone! The cure is simple – Circular Dating. Tis way you never become invested, and you’ll stay way more attractive to each man longer– so things get a chance to sort out and gel without the pressure of the 3-4 month mark! Love, Rori

  302.  #302Rori Raye on October 4, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Jane – it’s the main tool to authenticity and Vulnerability – which are cornerstones of the Rori Raye Mantra – Love, Rori

  303.  #303Rori Raye on October 4, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Bev – So sorry – and this seems like a powerful turning point for your life. First – children are a crucial issue – get on Match and POF and OK Cuypid and make sure you only date men who don’t want children, or who already have children and don’t want more. Second – do NOT date one man at a time – you have an addictive nature and are attracted to a man who will betray you and lie to you. You need PRACTICE with men. Circular Date – We’ll help. And do it WHILE you heal from this one. Love, Rori

  304.  #304Hopeful on October 4, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Not sure if I am posting in the right place….?

    Dear Rori, I emailed you a few months’ back to ask what you thought of dating a much younger man; I did have a look on your blog to see if there was an answer, as I appreciate you get so very many emails, but I couldn’t find one, so apologies if you have responded. We met on the ‘net around April and are now talking on the phone every weekend for an hour or two. We have both never married and both would like to find someone. He is 41 and I am 53. I believe he is a decent man, and he initiated the contact/phone calls, but since I cannot have children, I am worried a younger man might tire of me and meet someone younger who can have children. I had a lovely boyfriend before who was 4 years older; we didn’t sleep together because I said I preferred commitment first, but he would never commit and it ended because he persistently ran around and admitted to sleeping with other women. I have joined a website and am trying to get into circular dating and have now met this younger man who seems keen on building a relationship with me. I don’t want yet another friendship – I want to be taken seriously by a responsible man. Thanks so much for your advice.

  305.  #305Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 10:18 am

    In thinking about feeling messages and emotional intelligence, I have concluded sometimes I feel right to apply Rori’s tools only in certain situations.

    For example, when I was a server at restaurants, I was told to follow up 1-2 minutes after delivering the food, and every 5 minutes or so thereafter. However, some guests seemed irritated by this. I got to the point where I gauged what felt right on a guest-by-guest basis. If people were engrossed in conversation, and their glasses weren’t empty, etc, I left them alone. If they were solo and seemed to be starting conversations, I stayed and chatted a few minutes, because they seemed lonely.

    So when it comes to dating, if a man seems attracted but unsure of if the feeling is mutual, I don’t always interpret that as insecure (altho it may be). I see how I feel, and if it feels right to lean forward a bit to reassure him, I do. If I misgauged where he was at, I go right back into leaning back. One time leaning forward isn’t going to make or break a relationship.

    But I am really taking to heart what Daria said…the reminder I needed…really intense, deep, lengthy eye contact!

  306.  #306Denise on October 4, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Ladies- thank you! You are so inspiring!

    Renee, if you don’t have children like me, than a POP is whatever you choose to enrich your experience and care for yourself. You are able to take risks and invest in a project that, perhaps if you had kids to support, you may not feel appropriate for some reason, then consider yourself lucky and manifest that opportunity! I wanted to flip houses, too, and just when I started looking to buy, the market crashed terribly, as I am in Florida. I enjoy the transformation process and have experience in design and construction. Let me know if you need a project manager to help spiff the place up! It is amazing what we can do if we set our minds to it. Use your boy energy and do both- keep your job and do the house hunting now, and save to be able to tackle both when able.

    Brenda, volunteerism is a truly rewarding option. I did much of this my whole life, from the time I was a child.

    Thanks for the feeling messages! And the further explanation of the relationship; I did see he was imprisoned. I hope he gets fair justice! I asked because I am dating a man and not going all the way. See my post yesterday, in “Rori Raye’s Rules For Landing The Perfect Man”.
    —if you would be so kind! Thank you in advance!

    Everyone needs reinforcement and support. I find many men are hiding a lot of insecurities as they don’t face their feelings. You may have to initiate a little if he is wounded. Then lean back!

  307.  #307Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 10:23 am


    RE: #304 – We talk about age in #s 288 and 271 and above (Lizzie maybe?). We also discussed it on recent threads if you want to do a search.

    I dated a 30 year old last year, Ryan, when I was 45! I loved his comment about age:

    “I’m going to forget how old I am. When people ask me my age, I’m going to say, ‘I don’t remember!'”

    Another thing he said was, “I believe a woman who is well loved will be youthful well into her older years!” Love it!

  308.  #308Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 10:39 am


    I read what you wrote on the other thread. His reason is that he is afraid he will withdraw. Why would he withdraw? Did he say? Did he give any other reasons?

    You said he has high moral standards. Is that one of his reasons? Is he saving sex until marriage?

    It is a red flag unless he has a solid reason…

    I felt surprised that Rori suggested you ask him to marry you! I thot that was not in her way of leaning back! Here is what Rori suggested in another post I saved:

    Here’s a great comment from Angel Baby – so I’m jumping off…
    “I’ve been doing circular dating – and the men are definitely pouring in! I feel fun and flirty, and the men are drawn to me like a magnet. Problem is, they ALL want to keep me and I feel stupid dating them if I’m not sure I want to keep them. Each of the men I’m dating is really fun, intelligent, attractive (to me) and the chemistry is great. Now I’m down to having to get clear about what I’M really looking for. In the meantime, these guys are expressing that they’re feeling toyed with. Is that just whining on their part? I feel guilty, a little tired, and super confused! Thanks, Rori!
    Angel Baby, Welcome and BRAVA to YOU!!!
    The thing here is – what is the definition of “keep”?
    What does that mean to a man?
    What does it mean to you?
    If what you want is marriage, lifelong commitment – and you’re not sure about any of these men, and they’re not offering rings…then what is there to “keep”?
    The thing here is – this is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY for you to TALK with these men!!
    Ask them what they’re thinking about the two of you when they complain.
    Ask what they want, what they see.
    Share your feelings in total Feeling Messages about how attached and weird you can feel when you’re exclusive and hoping for a ring, and that you’ve just discovered it feels so much better to just let the man be in charge.
    In other words, exclusivity isn’t your goal here . A “boyfriend” isn’t your goal – marriage is!!!
    As long as you’re not having sex with anyone – or at least with just one man…you can stay sane here. And if you are having sex – you’re just going to have to be supremely even MORE Rock Star Diva!
    You do this by totally TELLING THE TRUTH at ALL TIMES to ALL MEN.
    You do this by focusing on yourself so you are as much in touch with how you feel every single moment – so that you’re responding and soft and open and spontaneous…and AWARE of your impulses and words – as you can possibly be.
    Love, Rori
    you want to take some time, i get that, that’s fine, but you can’t have me all to yourself. i have been getting invitations for dates and i am going to start accepting them. being honest feels really important to me so i just want to be clear that i feel really good spending time with you btu i don’t feel comfortable being exclusive to you without a solid commitment, and i don’t want to put pressure on you….what do you think?”

    This is how Circular Dating clears up your love
    life – it teaches you skills you never knew you
    had, it makes you feel beautiful and magnetic
    (which you’ve always been) and it creates a whole
    new relationship for you with EVERY man you meet!
    And one of three things will happen – either your
    man will step up and you’ll walk together to your
    Happy Ever After, or he won’t step up and another,
    BETTER man WILL, or he’ll step up and you won’t
    WANT him any more because you’ve met a better man.
    No matter what happens – you WIN!
    You GET your Mr. Right, you GET your Happy Ever
    Learn exactly how to Circular Date – and DO it.

  309.  #309Tanya on October 4, 2010 at 10:59 am

    I would liek to learn more about the “no girlfriend speech”. How does this work?

  310.  #310Denise on October 4, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Good point Brenda, about saving sex for marriage, since his mourning of his ex-fiance. I’m not sure it’s the reason, as I am sure he is not a virgin as he lived with others. He isn’t gay, or impotent.

    But maybe he is still traumatized at moments about the fear of loosing someone you love. He still shows signs of not being accepting of it, that he is still in denial, and blames himself for her death. Perhaps it is the survivor’s guilt.

    The only reason he has stated is that he would be afraid that he would withdraw and disappear from me and he does not want that to happen. He said he would be too emotional and it would mess everything up. I think he is angry about it. I think he thinks he will be out of control of his emotions, and then he won’t be able to deal with the responsibility level of commitment. Also, at times, he mentions it will just end on the end anyway, like a fatalist attitude. He thinks we are different kinds of people (economically/socially) but I have assured him that his background is not as important as who he is today. Even this weekend, he commented, that it is best we did not meet when we were 25 as I would not have put up with him for long. Maybe the attraction physically and somewhat intellectually would have been, but it could not have sustained his behavior! He knows he has come a long way. He always makes comments, he does not know what he did to deserve me! He is very flattering. I know he is saddened to upset and disappoint me, and has apolized for it, many times.

    I use my feeling messages to discuss the hard topics, and it does loosen him up! He is very slow at leaning forward, and said he never had to do that before as all the women is his life chased him. I questioned him and it is true- all the way back to highschool. And it sounds like they practically took total control! Trust me, after my life, it is hard to find my girl energy. I like to challenge myself, and it has helped make him a better man.

    Rori’s advice is surprising about marriage. He is a true gem in many ways, but I have been slow too, or maybe even difficult, in keeping my dance card full, circular dating, flirting always, and keeping the focus on me. Our time together is mostly incredibly satisfying.

    I need to facillitate the change so he is safe and comfortable. I am open and honest. Little by little in the dance, he comes closer. I need siren power to make him take the plunge and head towards a commitment. Any advice, ladies?

  311.  #311Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:25 am


    If I were in your relationship, I would feel uncomfortable until I had a deep talk with him about why he is avoiding sex.

    I’ll share something with you. My Mom and Dad courted three years before they married. My Dad was a perfect gentleman, and my Mom was impressed how he stayed to high standards and never pressured her for sex. She ended up pressuring him and got pregnant over a Christmas break when he was in the military and she was in college. They married on short order in February to cover the pregnancy. It was only after they married that my Mom realized his lack of interest in sex wasn’t just because he had high standards. He believed sex was just for procreation, and he only had a sex drive when it was perverted sex, forbidden sex. It turns out he was exposed to perverted sex as a child at his friend’s house, when the friend’s mother had sex with different men in the living room while the boys peeked. So my Dad cheated on her more than once, while he satisfied himself at home. It left her feeling so unloved, and it was a major mar in their relationship.

    I am not saying this is the dynamic for your man. But I think it is a major issue that needs to be open and honest before you can proceed. My Mom wished a million times over that she knew this about my Dad before she was committed to him. She has lived a very lonely, unfulfilled life.

    Throughout the posts there are feeling messages for bringing up uncomfortable topics and for “no girlfriend” power speeches. And of course in Rori’s CD programs. If you need help with it, I could look up some more I’ve saved. The general idea is, “Take all the time you need. I don’t want to pressure you. But you can’t have me all to yourself.” Then start taking yourself out to public places, on weekend trips, etc, and meet new men.

    But if he is willing to share his deep truth, you will have a much better feel for where he is at with you.

    If it is totally about his lost relationship, then I would encourage him to be in therapy, or maybe even couple therapy. He needs resolution, most likely, before he can move on.

    What do you think/feel?

  312.  #312Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:38 am

    I mentioned the restaurant manager on here a couple weeks ago, and I forget the name I made up for him. I will just call him Awesome.

    I went to his restaurant to eat Friday night just so I could cross paths with him. He seemed distant, totally opposite of last time I saw him. I asked, “How are you doing?” He said, “WE’RE doing fine! It’s been pretty busy tonight.” I tried repeatedly to give him intense eye contact, and he looked away every time.

    I wonder if it’s because, when he was sitting at my table last time, I said about one of the servers he had just fired, “She was flirting with my girl friend, and that wasn’t cool to be doing at work. I mean, I didn’t mind, but some people might.”

    I may have unintentionally given him the message that I don’t think it’s cool to flirt with guests when he is at work. I am going to continue to work with eye contact when I return (I usually go there once a week cuz they are cheap and they have a salad bar). But I am trying to think of a good feeling message…

    Any ideas?

  313.  #313Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Where are all my Siren buddies today?

  314.  #314Nikita on October 4, 2010 at 11:41 am

    I feel bad for being judgmental or remorseful….or sad…..when I said she was flirting…….blah,blah,blah?

  315.  #315life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Brenda, you are seriously one amazing, awesome woman!!

    I totally support your vision for a people helping business that you could support yourself with.

    If I didn’t have to pay bills, I would just like to volunteer holding crack babies and making art and making love.

    Rock on!!

  316.  #316Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Life is Short – Right back at ya! Thank you! I love making art and making love, too! And making love is such an art! LOL!

    The way I see it, the people most in need can’t afford the help. I’d like to be in a position to freely offer help. I would also like to go back to school, because the more you know, the more you’re capable of.

  317.  #317life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Like Ella, i feel that in general i am probably not verbally demonstrative enough about showing appreciation to the man. For some reason, i think i expect people to be able to feel or sense it, through actions, behaviors and vibes, like I can. Also, i have discovered that while i can empathize with them, i really do not want to so much deal with the insecure, needy ones who constantly need their ego pumped up. I would rather be involved with a man who considers it icing on the cake.

  318.  #318Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I wonder if Awesome thought I was gay when I mentioned being here with my girl friend??? Oh, I hope not! I never know how to phrase that in today’s world! Once I was talking to my 16 yo niece, and I said, “I was with my woman friend” and she said that sounds funny! So I went back to saying my girl friend. I don’t want to say friend because then a man might think I was referring to another man. Oh semantics!

  319.  #319Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 11:57 am


    I don’t mind insecure men. I guess it’s because much of my life, I was insecure. And often I wished men would encourage me rather than pass me by because of my insecurity. Because that was not my identity. I don’t want to work today. I want to play…on Siren Island!

  320.  #320life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Brenda…Yes! Making love is such an art!
    So when I can’t make love i have to channel the energy into making art! What else can I do?
    Living is an art as well! So, we can make our life a work of art.

    It’s so true, the people most in need can’t afford the help. It’s a catch-22.

    I know i could be very happy with a man who makes most of the money, who does not wield that as power, and sincerely appreciates and values what i have to offer in other ways to contribute to the relationship and to society, and then I could volunteer and make art and love to my heart’s content.

    That Kenny is one lucky bastard !

  321.  #321Denise on October 4, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    In 311, Brenda, I wondered if you meant they were gay! Yes, semantics are so very important! Guys do pick up on these comments, so it could have been misunderstood. Awesome will get the right message if you are straight! Lol.

  322.  #322Denise on October 4, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Yes, the big talk is coming soon, again. Obviously, I am waiting ’til he calls, it will probably be Tuesday night as we have plans for Wednesday to start dance lessons. I hate these important issues on the phone, but think it should happen before we meet, but I know he will like to avoid it. Maybe this time we will get to the bottom of it, before we dance, maybe I will have to wait until after the dance. Life is one big dance, isn’t it?

    Sorry to hear about your parents unfortunate situation. Not everyone is on the same page as the other regarding lovely love making. As we get older, I do not think it has the same level of importance as when we were younger. My hope is that your father somehow made up for it with your mother.

    I have heard of some men thinking it gets monotoneous or rather boring. I am sure based on some experiences it does! People have to work at it constantly. Nothing stays the same.

    I have said the feeling messages, take all the time you need. He always responds that I need to do what is best for me, that he understands if I am unsatisfied to see others, that he won’t break up with me. I am feeling that eventually, he will feel enough to step up.

  323.  #323life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    318 Brenda
    I understand. You wanted them to see through to the real you behind the insecurity who just needed a little coaxing.

    I was shy too. I also liked encouragement from those who could see beyond the shyness.

    What triggers me is someone who wants to fix me.

    Probably because I had that going on too..i was a rescuer and fixer.

  324.  #324Denise on October 4, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Forgot to mention, I have brought up therapy / treatment more than once! He thinks he is beyond that. He claims only he knows his psychosis, no MD is going to get to the root, as he would not open up to the truth with a stranger, and that I spend too much time psychoanalyzing him. I think that is why he is angry, and likes to joke about destruction, like a little kid in a crystal store, or jokes about that he is broken and cannot be fixed. I feel he is just seeking some solace and normalcy, and getting through a tragic loss. I relate as it also happened to me when I lost my sister.

  325.  #325Denise on October 4, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    LITST- I hope that means you no longer fix and rescue unless it is a helpless, stranded animal! Everyone needs and deserves encouragement. Be a cheerleader to those who need a boost. Give a smile today.

    I feel happy to make others happy.
    I feel secure to know that not everyone is as secure as me. I feel good knowing I did good.

  326.  #326life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    323 Denise

    oh this talk of tragic loss is majorly triggering me. when i re-connected with LD man it was oh so magical, even though there had been some very big losses in his life. I was the one who brought the sunshine back into his life. As long as I didn’t rock his boat in any way, i would be viewed this way. Then when more bad stuff started to happen, and i was giving him the “i don’t want friends with benefits” talks, he kind of flamed out, but always tried to keep the embers stirred. I still feel guilty about putting the big kabosh on the relationship only one month after he suffered a big loss, but I was feeling so uncared for and unheard. I feel like reaching out again, but I just can’t do it. I feel he needs therapy, but he doesn’t.
    What do you think?

  327.  #327Ella on October 4, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Brenda, Renee – thanks for suggestions.

    I am not sure what I think/feel. I do wish he knew that I liked him however I just typed out a few texts and it feels weird/off when I think about sending them.

    I remember reading something Rori wrote about that we are in our boy energy if we are using feeling messages to try to create an outcome rather than just to share, which would be the case here.
    Also it resonates with me that I might be setting up the wrong vibe if I lean forward now…

    On the other hand I want to say how I feel.

    So, are you guys of the opinion I should contact him?
    If I do contact him it might just be a really positive, upbeat message like “It felt really good spending time with you the other night”.

    Rori… are you here? Can you help?
    Daria – any advice from you is always appreciated too.

    Thanks everyone. x

  328.  #328Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 12:51 pm


    RE: #319 – “That Kenny is one lucky bastard !”

    Thanks! He sees it that way, too! He tells me I am the crowning moment of his life. We are friends to the end no matter what, even if I marry another man.

  329.  #329Denise on October 4, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Litst- you cannot change what he will not do. It’s great that you were the sunshine during his darkness. But what did he do for you??? Besides keep the embers stirred? Is that enough? If he won’t go for therapy, and try to find happiness, will he still not listen to you, also? My guy is one of the best listeners and supporters of me that I have ever seen, even in his sadness. Just because someone is suffering doesn’t mean that they cannot be there for you. Maybe the time you gave him has helped to heal him. Maybe not. You won’t know unless you see him or hear from him. Sometimes after time apart, we appreciate others more. Keep your girl energy.

  330.  #330Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 12:53 pm


    RE: #320 – Awesome had a gay female server who was hitting on my female friend. I commented to Awesome that that wasn’t cool when she was at work. Does that clarify? I need to let him know I don’t mind him flirting with me!

  331.  #331Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 12:55 pm


    RE: #321 – If it were my relationship, I would want to have that conversation in person, during a time when we were calm and connected.

  332.  #332Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 12:57 pm


    RE: #323 – He sounds like Kenny. He says, “Ah, don’t give me that psychobabble! Just go live your life!” But that is actually something that leaves me feeling somewhat isolated from him. “Psychobabble” is my world.

  333.  #333life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Thank you for being here, Denise.
    I needed to hear that now!
    If I continue to over function and lean forward,
    he will not learn how to be the man that i want to share my life with.
    Yes, perhaps the time we did spend and my leaving will help to make him a better man. I cannot sit around waiting to find out.

    I have a dinner date tonight with a 41 year old lawyer(i’m mid-fifties!) and another date tomorrow night!

    thank you again 🙂

  334.  #334Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 1:00 pm


    RE: #326 – I don’t think I am the one to answer that. i am a recovering lean-forward-olic. My tendency would be to say yes. So let’s let Daria or someone else respond!

  335.  #335life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 1:02 pm


    LOL Brenda!!! recovering lean-forward-olic…good one

    loving Siren Island!

  336.  #336Honey on October 4, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Yoga class was cancelled today, so I worked out on the machines instead. Lizzie, thanks for the encouragement and modeling for taking care of myself with exercise!

  337.  #337Ella on October 4, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    I want to share what happened with me earlier today.

    There is a guy from match who I have been on a few dates with and he is really keen… calling/texting all the time, trying to plan the next date etc…

    He also came on kinda strong with the intimacy in his texts ie: ‘I can’t wait to kiss your luscious lips again’ and another time ‘hey sexy, I need your lips’. This freaked me out completely as I just felt he was coming on strong. I mean this caused a serious reflex in me which made me want to run for the hills. I started ingnoring most of his calls and texts and found myself annoyed that he was still pursuing me! I mean WTF… this kinda stuff always makes me run. I didn’t even know how I felt about him yet!

    Anyway I was thinking earlier about why I feel so bad about date guy not contacting yet and I realised it is still all to do with my step dad, my relationship with him and the fact that he died when I was 14. Well I had a few years of counselling when I worked through al that, so I thought it was done and dusted… it seems not!

    I realised date guys behaviour throws me back into that thought/feeling of ‘all the men I love leave me’ and triggers all those old feelings from losing my stepdad, and then various boyfriend’s since then. I realised all that pain is still there and my recent breakup with someone I really cared for just reinforced this message.

    When I realised this I just wanted to cry. I couldn’t as I was just about to start work but I allowed myself to feel tender and sad, and to feel the pain of losing my stepdad again, as well as the fear that no man will ever love me or stay with me (probably my biggest, deepest relationship[ fear).

    Then I decided to try something different. So I decided to call match guy and just be really honest with him and say how I felt. I cannot tell you how scared I felt and I nearly chickened out, I was sure it would be akward/awful/painful and embarressing, or that he would be angry or call me crazy. But I though “No, I am tired of doing the same old thing, I want to try something different!”. So I made the call.

    It took me a minute or two to build up to it and so there was some small talk at first. Then I said “I am feeling quite uncomfortable today”. He asked why and I said I have been feeling resistance to seeing him and that I think it is tied in with issues from my childhood. I said I felt resistant and uncomfortable and that it felt tight in my chest.

    He was very sweet but when I said about the feeling in my chest he suggested that I see a doctor, lol (in the most well meaning way). I said no this is not physical and I know what I need to do to work tthough it, I just need to feel it and express it. I said that I felt akward telling him this.

    He was really understanding and very sweet and asked what he could do. He said that we could do it whichever way was most comfortable with me… he was really gentle and tender with me. He also said he was there if I wanted to talk.

    I cannot tell you how diffidult and uncomfortable that conversation was for me and all the time I was sure he mustt be thinking I was a nutcase… and yet, I felt so relieved after, like a whole load of stress just shifting.

    I have no idea what will happen now or if he does think I am a crazy/heavy woman, however it felt good and different to me. And if I hadn’t done it I would have found a way of dropping him. I am not sure what I will do now, I am just going to wait and see how I feel and what happens.

    I just wanted to share.

  338.  #338Amy F. on October 4, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    I have a little different perspective on your situation. I feel like leaning back is the thing to do here. You said you used feeling messages all night. You stayed the night with him. He should get you are interested in him. It sounds like he’s feeling insecure for the reasons you stated, and if so, he won’t be able to step up and be the man who does the work in the relationship so you can be in your feminine energy.
    I feel you should lean back and see what happens.

  339.  #339Ella on October 4, 2010 at 1:23 pm


    Thanks for all your support.

    Just to say, rightly or wrongly I decided to text date guy. I sent him a simple text saying:

    “It felt so good spending time with you the other day and it felt amazing to be cuddled by you”.

    That is all I wanted to say. I speak the truth that is exactly how I felt. There is now no doubt in my mind that he knows and whatever happens from here I can handle. If he does not reply it is a total lost cause and he will be suprised about how easily I can lock him off, ie when I see him he will not get another minute of my attention… If he doesn’t he really isn’t worth it, I mean he was kinda lucky to get a date with me, and as he says there are plenty of other guys round here chasing after me.

    On the other hand I have shared with him how I felt and that feels good. If he responds I will be happy. I that is it, there will be NO more leaning forward from me now that I have expelled any worry that I didn’t let him know I was interested/wrong vibes etc…

    It is done!

    Now – attention to me. Time to deal with my feelings I think I will have a bath.

    Oh, and I am gonna text back another guy from match who wants a date.

  340.  #340Daria on October 4, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Ella – I would not contact him….

    I wouldn’t worry about WHY hes doing what he’s doing… staying out of “his business… ” as Rori calls it (do you have the book?)

    instead, this is a great opportunity to practice being with my feelings… of anger, disappointment, rejection, abandonment, insecurity, fear… its a pretty common occurance that a man might not call when he said he did, or follow up as quickly as I expected…

    so hug yourself, yes go there to the feelings with your step dad, if it feels healing, hold the intention that you will heal this and love yourself anyway

    and go DATE OTHER MEN!

    then when he does contact you – he will eventually – say how you feel… happy to hear from him, yet a lil weird because you expected to hear from him much earlier…

    or … whatever is in the moment

    my guesses and your guesses, about why he hasn’t contacted you, are NOT what we want to focus on

    ps … just to touch on that, i feel uncomfortable when i start feeling judgemental of the man as “insecure”… it’s really easy to jump in my head and label him that…. instead of noticing that i feel uncomfortable being told im gonna kiss another man, etc.

    with one of my current CD’s, i had him in my head labeled as insecure… but since i practiced and babysteps being with my feelings instead, and communicating clearly with him … he’s demeanor has changed, he now seems much more confident, And i feel much more comfortable around him… and also ATTRACTED to him which was surprising to me… at first i wasn’t because i kept labeling him insecure

  341.  #341Denise on October 4, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Life & Ella- you GO girls! You are moving in the right direction.

    Lists- younger professional lawyer and a date after date? I am proud!

    Ella, wait and see, lean back. That sexting stuff at the beginning just causes undue stress. Good to set the boundary, and good that you shared. Now you feel good. DOn’t worry about how he feels.

    Brenda, you are wise to tell me to wait to see him in person for a comfortable moment to talk. Maybe after the dance when we are all relaxed and worn out from the exercise! Psychio-babble- funny! Like Babylon. And on and on….!!!

  342.  #342Daria on October 4, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Ella – thats lovely! with Match guy

    Men have a knack of turning it around (our feelings) on a dime, if we give them a chance by being vulnerable expressing how we feel and asking what they think

    there’s been so many situations when i thought… this is really unsolvable, and then the guy found a way to instantly make me feel better and connected again

    and now you see it in action!

    it’s their job!!

    they CAN do it!

  343.  #343jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Ella & Amy! Wow, here you are sounding like old hands….it’s really neat!

    Ella, ummm, I get that you tried really hard to talk about in feeling messages something that was scary for you. And it sounds like he did “man” hearing and just offered you a solution – like he didn’t really hear your feelings. And they do sound kind of odd if one didn’t know the back story – like if you were trying to tell him you’d had childhood abuse? to me…

    So, yes! lean back is great – but I think there’s going to be some confusion- maybe you could also say –

    “I meant it feels scary in my chest to be involved and trusting you with my feelings, I’ve had my father die so it’s a real trigger for me to believe men are going to stay in my life. It would feel good if we could just talk about that, not saying it means anything you have to do. What do you think?”

    or something – cuz if he thinks you need a doctor, something got scrambled!

    Here’s wishing you all the best….

  344.  #344Ella on October 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    I feel good about this because I have stayed positive. I have not asked for anything from him.

    And I do not feel embarressed. I mean he is well aware that I am dating others and did not stop that for him… also I did not sleep with him. We just shared some time.

    He asked to see me again, not the other way around. So my dignity is totally intact and I can hold my head high. All I have done is expressed how I feel…

    Hmmm, I am beginning to see how this CD-ing actually works! Cool.

    Brenda – loool, ha ha re: recovering leanforward-aholic! Love it! 🙂

  345.  #345jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    ‘kay Daria’s here….she’s good at this!! and look how she turned it around! Great! job D!!!

  346.  #346jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    @ Denise – your story is intense, I can’t really offer anything new, just wanted to send you a shoutout! and tell you how much I enjoy reading what you write. And good luck with a big hug!!


  347.  #347jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Ella – as long as you can have a feelings talk and feel good – you’ve got it!! going on! Bravo! I hope he gets it – and if anything he should definitely call to ask how you feel. Grin….

  348.  #348jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    ps Denise – I will say the story reminds me and seems to make you into a “wounded healer” – which has to do with Chiron (google it for interesting stuff!; it was ME for a long time!!)… – and lets the guy kind of make his issues your problem. If you’re up to it and believing in him, good for you!

  349.  #349Denise on October 4, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Jacqueline- (((((HUGS)))) back at you. Thank YOU for the shoutout!

    This is a great forum to express what is so hard to detail to some others (my friends, who may not be able to handle this emotion. Writing can help us all, as it gives us time to think through our thoughts before blurting out the wrong idea. Thanks for allowing me to feel safe to share; I do not feel so all alone. Keep the good thoughts coming in!

    Ella, it is working. Believe.

  350.  #350Ella on October 4, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Hey Daria,

    Thanks for your advice. I had just already sent the text when you posted.

    I am ok now, like calm. I don’t know if it was a good thing to send the text, maybe not… but I am still learning and it was what I could manage at this stage.

    Also, I figure even if it is not the absolute best move it is also not that bad. I mean it is not like I have chased himmercilessly, or hounded him like some girls do to their guys. If he doesn’t respond that will be it and he will lose out! I do not disrespect myself by chasing a guy who is not into me, and it feels off to me to do that kind of thing now.
    And I am much better at this than I used to be…

    I alleviated my worries that I didn’t show how I felt…

    Who knows maybe next time I’ll be able to go the whole hog and not contact… but for now at least I will not feel embarrassed when I see him, and I’ve expressed myself!

    I feel relatively positive.

  351.  #351Daria on October 4, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Ella – i agree… especially with the doing what you could at this stage… and that it was not so bad…

    it’s an Experiment… and now you will see how you feel, etc.

    I did lots of these experiments as I was learning, because sometimes I had to Feel stuff out for myself, not just think about it…

    so it’s a process and you seem So Aware! youre doing just fantastically fabulous!1

    and telling that guy how you felt about the texts! how scary to do that, I still practice in that dept! awesome job

    it really helps me to imagine every man coming towards me as Divine Masculine, and me sharing my feelings from that place, knowing that they intend to make me feel good, and just letting them know how i feel etc so they can better do that

  352.  #352Honey on October 4, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    OK, the Hunky guy I emailed about breaking up with me, who sent me the gracious email back yesterday…well…I notice today he has his profile off Match today. My mind cannot help but wonder if maybe he wants to see me again and that’s why it’s down. On the other hand, there could be a million other reasons…like he’s seeing someone else. But bottom line, it doesn’t matter. Just so hard not to let my mind go there…time to lean back and CD.

    So, part of the cure…CDing. A guy I’ll call Business Man called me from Match today…nice chat. He was at work and will be traveling for two weeks, but asked if it would be ok if he called me again while on travel. Emailed my number to another guy who sent me his number, along with the “I’m old-fashioned…” speech. I think his subscription expired a couple days ago (he said it was, but not sure if that was just a ploy), so I MAY have to call HIM at this point. There is another nice guy who I went dancing with before I met Hunky Guy, too…if I texted him, he would take me out…he left me an open invitation a couple weeks ago.

    There are two other guys who are interested as well…one has asked if I wanted to meet for coffee…I stalled but kept the communication open. The other I’m really interested in but he hasn’t asked for my number yet. He seems really interested, though. And one more guy in the beginning stages.

    All the other guys who wrote have been screened OUT…I’m picky.

    OK, Sirens, how the heck am I supposed to juggle this many guys at once? I have a busy life and I am DETERMINED to add exercise back into my schedule. Maybe I should just hide my Match profile for awhile. How many guys does one keep in “rotation”! OMG…that sounds awful!

  353.  #353Renee on October 4, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Ella — I think you did the right thing because it sounds like you feel you expressed your true feelings but are also unattached to the outcome, which is the main thing. Rori doesn’t advise leaning forward in general, but I distinctly remember the story she tells about calling her now husband back when they were dating, and she wasn’t just returning his call either. She was initiating, but she said she felt totally unattached to the outcome…I believe he had been pursuing her and she had been putting him off and she was going to tell him she wanted to see him after all or something to that effect, but the point is that leaning forward on occcasion isn’t deadly, especially if you’re unattached to the outcome.

    I am proud of myself today — I went to the gym and then spent all afternoon working like a crazy woman…now, it’s just a matter of whether/how soon I see a pay off (being self-employed definitely has its scary moments!). I also caught up with a dear old friend and discussed maybe getting together soon…all in all, I definitely made baby-step progress towards my goals!

  354.  #354Ella on October 4, 2010 at 2:12 pm


    Thanks. This feels fine.

    I feel curious – you mentioned that you think it is that it is common to have guys take longer to contact than expected and not contact when they say they will after a date with one of us – why do you think this is? Have you experienced this much and what normally happens?

    Hope all is good in your world today.

  355.  #355Daria on October 4, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Ella – yes, this is because, as Rori says, this kind of thing just happens with dating, people cancel, don’t call, etc…

    not everyone is in the habit of dating the same as others,

    so men won’t necessarily know exactly what to do to make us happy at first…

    which is why its good to let them know what we don’t want… so that they can adjust

  356.  #356Ella on October 4, 2010 at 2:18 pm


    I have been so focused on my little emotional drama I have not had much time for feeding back to others. I feel a lil’ selfish! lol.

    Anyway I don’t have much time for reading now as need to take care of myself and go to bed ready for early start for work tomorrow.

    However I just caught the question at the bottom of your post ‘how do I juggle all these guys’…

    Just my quick reflex ideas:

    . short dates
    . coffee or drinks instead of dinner
    . no initiating phone calls
    . setting times when they can call you
    . keeping dates local to you so you don’t have to travel
    . give more time to the ones who energise you and less to the ones who don’t
    . anything else that preserves your energy

    Hope this helps… good luck on you exciting new journey!

  357.  #357Renee on October 4, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Honey — You’re doing so well!!! Rori generally recommends having at least 3 guys in your cd rotation, but I guess the max number you can handle is determined by your pickiness level and availability…I’ve juggled 3 before several times, but I couldn’t personally handle many more than that because I would get all their details screwed up. The smart thing to do would be to take notes on each one when you talk to them about their parents, pets, kids, etc., and then you could fit a few more in (as your schedule allows).

    Way to get out there, though! It definitely makes you feel desirable and helps your self-esteem to have so many men at your beck and call…I’m sure you’ll learn from each encounter and the more you learn, the closer you’ll be to finding your Mr. Right!

  358.  #358life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    I feel judged

    I feel punished

    I feel deceived and used

    I feel like poison darts
    of you are stupid
    and you are shit
    are being flung at me

    and like his issues are supposed to
    be my problems

    jacqueline! I forgot all about “wounded healer” !!

    I could be up to it, but the fun house mirrors in this case, may be a little too distorted for me

  359.  #359Amy F. on October 4, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Great that you feel good. I like Daria’s advice about not labeling. I am very sensitive to a man with feminine energy – I don’t want that at all. I tend to think if a man isn’t driving the bus, it’s a manifestation of his feminine energy, or insecurity. Yet, in reality, Daria is right, it really does not matter. What matters is how I feel. Please let us know what happens. We are all invested in this story now.

  360.  #360Denise on October 4, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    The Greek story of Chiron is powerful and fitting, as I too, am a Centaur. Are you a mythology follower? I often thought it was here for us to learn their lessons. I appreciate his description “respected oracle, civilized, kind and intelligent”. Although he was unable to heal himself, I am becoming at peace with my loss, partially due to my ability to share this with someone who was grieving at the same time who sees in my family, what I could not. Support is a wonderful vehicle. Time is on my side.
    Now we all have to watch out for the poisoned arrows, don’t we!

  361.  #361Daria on October 4, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Honey – great! you keep all men in the rotation until either they drop off or it doesnt’ feel good to you to keep one

    think of yourself as a pond, and men as a river… the River of men… that flows into you… men will flow in and out of your life, it’s not you job to keep track of them

    the ones that Stick and come around are the ones that you want

  362.  #362jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Hi LITSH….ummm, I was writing about Denise? Hope I didn’t make you feel any of those things? oh, I think your man is who you’re referring to? Well, you just take your power to be the Queen/Princess/Most Fabulous Being in the World right back!! ya hear?!!

    I’m researching masculine/feminine and reading the newsweek and Atlantic monthly article – first tho I read about how we communicate as human beings, not male/female, that was interesting. Anyway…

    I’m reading about the media making a to do over the demise of men and how it’s not so much and stuff – really interesting and then it got into “manly” commercials and that, my friends, was hilarious!!!

    Did you know the most interesting man in the world is 71?!! AND that sharks name a week after him?

    Great 4 laughs…

    & off for now – everyone take care!

  363.  #363Daria on October 4, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Rori advises us to watch out for falling into “healer” mode with a man … not what we want in a romantic relationship… but can be oh so attractive (and addictive) to those of us with Healing tendencies

  364.  #364Renee on October 4, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Ella — About the ‘men not calling’ thing…Even Mark Katz, a male dating coach, says if the man’s feeling “it” — that feeling like you really may be the ‘the one’ — you’ll know it cause they’ll try to make plans again with you right away, whether on the same night or nearly immediately afterwards.

    I was encouraging you to give the most recent date of yours a small break just because it seemed that he may have been a little insecure and I couldn’t tell if you’d given him enough encouragement, but if we want to stick strictly to the book, the man, if he’s serious, should pick up that phone the next day if he really likes you. If they’re not banging down the door to see you, they’re most likely not going to bang down the door to see you down the road and you have to decide how much aggressive pursuit you need to feel wanted by a man.

    I need a pretty aggressive pursuit for me to feel like a man is seriously interested in me and I can tell you that Blondie sure as heck contacted me the day after our first date (I think he called, but it may have been a txt…I was so busiy cd’ing my other men, I barely noticed one way or the other, lol). Down the road, though, after I had blown him off, I initiated our next date by simply sending him a txt asking him how he was and if he had big plans this weekend. I think Rori would have been fine with it since A. I was unattached to the outcome and B. He had contacted me previously and I hadn’t responded. Anyway, he was more than happy to ask me out again as soon as he got a signal I was interested, and while I’m sure there are exceptions out there, I really believe that what Rori preaches about men being willing to ‘step up’ is true — if they don’t step up for you at the beginning of the relationship, they’re probably not going to step up down the road either…just something to keep in mind.

  365.  #365Ella on October 4, 2010 at 2:41 pm


    Thanks. I will of course.

    I hear your point about not labelling and I need to let this sit with me for a while to gain more understanding…

    If the situation ever arises I will express my disappointment/displeasure with his not following through re calling, however for what I said feels right.

    I have a feeling this story is not over however I feel it may be something that will play out over time. Who know, we will see.

    Either way – all good and thanks for all the support.

  366.  #366life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    I think I can be aware that I am labeling, for instance, a guy as “insecure” and then see that for what it is…a passing thought which does not matter
    unless I give it a life of its own. But this way, you can develop empathy for not only yourself, but how most people are constantly doing this labeling and then attaching to it, without realizing it. Then focussing on my feelings and senses and sharing that is being present with what is going on in the moment. I am practicing this.

  367.  #367life_is_too_short_to... on October 4, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    no jacqueline, it was the man, not you!!!

    nobody triggers me here, just stuff that is said.

    I am so glad for that!

  368.  #368Ella on October 4, 2010 at 2:49 pm


    Yes, totally agree.

    I think I mentioned in an earlier post how he did ask me several times at the end of our date when he could see me again. I felt like things were moving a bit fast and was a tad flippant as I didn’t know what to say and then he stopped asking when he realised I had another date booked (with another man) for this Friday.

    I do not want a man who can’t step up and I don’t think he can right now… however I wanted to give him the chance.

    There is no way I will accept a relationship now where I have to ‘row the boat’ NO way. However who knows what will happen in the long term…

    You never know who your future husband might be and when might be the right time, ie it could be someone who is already on the scene who is not ready now, or who we wouldn’t consider at this time… (I am not saying this is the case with mr date guy!)

    Or, not… but it doesn’t really matter!

  369.  #369BarbinOz on October 4, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Wow ladies some great advise on here this sunny spring morning 🙂

    Ella you are doing so well 🙂

    I love all the advise about giving the positive feeling messages to men, not just the one where you don’t like something.

    I am like LITST in that I expect a man to feel my vibes and KNOW I am into him……

    Also like the thing from Daria about not falling into healer mode, that can also be the “mummy” mode where we feel we need to take care of the man and nurture him just like we do our children or other family members. I remember going out with this guy he was bald and it was a really hot day and I reminded him to put on his baseball cap and he didn’t like it one little bit LOL!! Mind you he was a 6′ Macho man 🙂 He already had a mummy he didn’t need another…….

  370.  #370Lola on October 4, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Hi – I posted this in the wrong place so posting it here again:

    My boyfriend finished with me last week, as he was building up o it I got really upset about it and he said he’d talk to me next day as I was crying. He never called and it will be 6 days tomorrow. I am amazed at myself that I haven’t called him. After 2 1/2 years just nothing. I know closure is not really useful as such, but I never expected nothing. I wish he had mentioned my daughter – awful he didn’t want to say goodbye (second time someone has walked out of her life without saying goodbye, as her ex-step mum did the same) He has some stuff at my place – not much but his bike which must be work about £600, a few clothes he kept and a suit in the wardrobe. Should I just text him and tell him his stuff will be outside on a certain day? Is there any point in saying how I feel about this?

  371.  #371Lorelei on October 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Hi everyone. I had my first live, proper “date” for 15 and a half years on Saturday, with a guy I met on line. It had seemed quite interesting in advance, but the reality became very sad as the lunch date progressed. As soon as I was sitting down talking with him, I felt very strongly that he was older than his profile said (‘mid-50’s’, but I felt he was at least 60). And I also noticed that both of this hands had a tremor, and he just seemed very vulnerable. I practised staying open and did well at being non-judgemental, and we had a nice lunch and quite a good conversation, as we had personal and professional interests in common. I was a little bothered by a few rather premature comments about how I should go over to his place, and how we should go over to Italy together, and a few bits of humour that were just strange. E.g. at the end, he said “The only flaw in this lunch has been that we could not remember the name of the actor who played Gollum in Lord of the Rings.” But no-one had mentioned Gollum, or Lord of the Rings, or anything about this topic. He then said that was a joke, which completely lost me – very clunky humour.

    His story came out that 12 years ago he had a brain haemorrage, a serious brain injury that partly caused his wife to leave him, and it’s taken him a long time to get back to part-time work.

    Soooooo – as the date went on, partly because I didn’t want to criticise him or wound him about what is essentially a disability, I must have shut down on my feelings – I was doing well at the start. At the end of lunch, he asked if I would go with him to quickly see a new museum, round the corner. I said yes too quickly, and on the way there wished I had said No. Standing up and walking together, I found he was actually shorter than me, and I’m very short, and he seemed even older both in vibe and looks.

    I felt it was like being with my father, at the very beginning of my father’s dementia, when he had just become a little noticeably physically affected by it, and his memory was becoming a little strange.

    Because I was shutting down on my feelings, I couldn’t quite access this, and just began to feel a bit tense. But I felt I couldn’t say to my date, “This feels like being with my father” let alone, “This feels like being with my father as his health begin to fail.” I felt this man was very vulnerable, very much wanting to find someone to care for him, and somehow he was hoping the energy was going to start flowing towards him . .

    At the end, he made some comments about how much he’d enjoyed this, and “The ball is now in your court – call me if you’d like to continue . .” I said something about how I would like to put the ball into his court, but didn’t manage to say, “I don’t feel comfortable calling men.” But he didn’t want to have the ball in his court.

    After we’d said goodbye, I was driving home and felt just so sad for what my father went through. We didn’t have a great relationship, but his final illness was pitiful. So I did a bit of feeling stuff around that. And I don’t want to see this man again – and if the ball is in my court, we won’t, cos I won’t phone, or contact him online again. No chance of me fancying him. Quite turned off!!

    For a first date after my marriage has ended, it could have been a lot worse. and I did well with leaning back (my main tool to be practiced on this date). But I just notice how hard I found it to stay in feeling messages, because I gradually shut down the feelings, in order to stay polite and positive and, oh yuk!! !!!!! Really need to honour my feelings, but I was so concerned about not wounding him.

    3 things I’m wondering about. What would you all have done?

    And should I write him an online message saying “I didn’t feel the spark” and/or delete him.

    And I get that Rori says date at least 3, and there’s a lot in the programmes about keeping on accepting dates even with men who don’t seem at all promising. But I wouldn’t want to see this man at all, or risk raising his hopes. So if he did contact me again, it would be OK to say no, in a Siren-y way, wouldn’t it. Please say it would.

  372.  #372Allison on October 4, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    I’ve been dating a man for about a year and a half who is still active on, and it is driving me crazy! I told him that I really hate it that he’s on there, but I just don’t know what else to do or how to handle this situation! I really love him and I’d love to keep him around… He calls every day and treats me wonderfully, and we see eachother at least twice a week with my 3 year old involved as well. Jeez!!

  373.  #373Jacqueline on October 4, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Hi, Lola – just checking on you – yep you’re here, there might be a bit of a dinner lul, but people will come around soon. I hope you don’t call him until you feel stronger!!

    Lorelei – I don’t think you have to or even should add this guy to rotation – that’s for guys we kind of like, IMO. It was sad – esp. the weird humor and the well now the balls in your court…I went out with a couple of guys who had like hurt their backs or something and they would be all fuzzy – you could tell they were on meds, and it was really uncomfortable, and they were always the same – like now you’ve seen me, you can pursue me. Ummmm, not! I wish you’d have had a better date, but hoooray for getting out there! It’ll just keep getting easier and hopefully better!

    @ Allison – wow, that’s weird. I know some of the girls will help you with feeling messages about it – cuz I’m sure it feels crappy. It’s like his actions don’t match on one way or another to me. But hang around here, you’ll get lots of support and learn bunches –

    for everyone, I think you should always to read old posts! from Rori, I started with self esteem and femininity….just read about 10-12 at a time and let them percolate. It’ll help, big time.


  374.  #374Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    I feel really embarrassed to share this, but I have been having financial problems. I had a $35/month storage and I was 5 months behind after trying and trying to catch up on rent and car payment, in the midst of a lot of unusual expenses: vet bills, new tires, a huge dentist bill that I thought was going to be covered by my insurance, and the list goes on.

    I had recently put a month’s worth of laundry and blankets in there. Tonight I went there to take them to the laundry mat, and the property owner had emptied my storage. I called her and of course she was nasty and angry, saying I never called her and she had no way to contact me. She could have and should have mailed me a certified letter by law. And if she had lost my new address, she could have sent it to my old address, and I would have gotten it.

    So I just lost MOST of my clothing, including my winter clothing and my Mom’s, and most of my blankets. There were many other things there, and it was all probably worth about $2000-3000.

    I have legal grounds to sue her, because she did not have a right to take MY property.

    On the positive side, my first thought when it happened was to contact all of my Siren friends and other friends. This is a huge shift for me, because the old me would have thought first to go to food to comfort, not to friends! I feel happy about this, while I feel nauseated about losing all my clothes and blankets.

  375.  #375Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 7:27 pm


    RE: #336 – Awesome!! I mean, I feel sad about your fear from childhood. But you unzipped your heart! You made an A1 move according to Rori’s programs!! Good job!

  376.  #376Rachel on October 4, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Hugs Brenda. I trust that you will receive all that you need and even better than what you had!

    Question for those of you who are good with feeling messages….my guy and I have had a standing Sunday morning “chat date” for the past 3-4 months. It is one of the few times where both of our schedules are free (he is in the military – deployed).

    On the rare occasion when I have not been able to show up or knew I’d be late, I have always posted a note so that he would know.

    This past Sunday, he didn’t show. I knew he had an event later in the day, but he hadn’t mentioned that it would interfere with our chat. I left a note and went on with my day, but felt unsettled. I heard nothing at all from him all day Sunday and all day today. Finally tonight, we had a brief 10 min chat where he acted fine and talked about a test he is taking soon…

    I knew we didn’t have time to get into a discussion. But I feel like I want to somehow let him know that I felt really awful being “stood up” with no explanation.

    I’m struggling with how to say it though without making him “wrong.” I feel it was rude of him not to at least leave a note. Or if he couldn’t, then to apologize tonight. But maybe he isn’t even thinking the way I do and doesn’t realize that this feels like a date to me … a date where my boyfriend didn’t show up!

    Any ideas of how I can share this without making him seem wrong? Or should I just let it go and go with the flow? It has bothered me a lot today. Thanks!

  377.  #377Alonka on October 4, 2010 at 7:44 pm


    I wouldn’t call your boyfriend. I read somewhere that men feel really lonely in the 3rd-4th week after a break up, so if to call at all, perhaps that would be a better time. But in any case, he didn’t deserve your call now and he knows it, so better to wait.

    With your guy’s clothes I’d have them delivered to his new place, with a little nice note – please don’t worry, it wasn’t any inconvenience for me, you’ve been so generous anyway, it is my pleasure to do something for you, enjoy your day. He won’t be able to stop thinking about you, I can assure you;p)

  378.  #378Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 7:50 pm


    Thank you! Here are some possible feeling messages for you that I saved:

    I feel confused about Wednesday and I don’t want to wonder about it…what happened?

    “I feel bad. I heard you say you were going to call yesterday, and I feel let down.”

    “I feel disappointed that you didn’t call when you said you would.”

    You know… I feel unsure bringing this up but… when you said you’d call me and then didn’t, I felt really annoyed. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it when I feel so good with you normally. What do you think?

    I feel weird. I felt excited that we were going to meet and when we didn’t, I felt disappointed. I would feel happy to talk to you and meet. What do you think?

    Yes, you most definitely should bring it up. If you make nice and pretend you’re not upset, he will sense something is wrong. Be genuine with your feelings…even when they’re not positive feelings.

  379.  #379Rachel on October 4, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Brenda, Thank you! These are great! I just posted a little note that said, “I understand that the weekend was busy, but I do feel confused about the Sunday morning chat time and I don’t want to wonder about it … what happened?”

    Now whatever he shares, would it be ok to then say, “It felt bad to be stood up with no explanation.” ?

  380.  #380Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:04 pm


    I’m glad they were helpful. I am too upset tonight to concentrate. I’ll let someone else follow up with you there.

  381.  #381Daria on October 4, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Rachel – yes, I would say that.. it didn’t feel good to feel stood up… this is really special to me like a date… what do you think?

  382.  #382Daria on October 4, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Alonka – I’ve been following your posts… I think it would really help you to get Rori’s book.. it’s about $20 and you can download it and start reading…

    it feels very uplifting and clarifies a lot of things and the approaches we take

  383.  #383Daria on October 4, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Ella – no you don’t have to go out with him if you feel that repulsed…

    I wouldn’t tell him much, unless he asks…

    you may feel more open to him in the future (has happened to me, thinking… hey maybe ill give this guy a chance now… months later when i got over the initial icky feelings)

  384.  #384Daria on October 4, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Brenda – that sux. I’m having a similar issue in that the new gym that bought the gym i belong to doesn’t want to refund me for the past months, though i haven’t been going… and it messed up my bank account the way they were charging me…

    i am gonna do a dispute thru my bank…

    i feel worried that it won’t work!

    i just got inspired to do my EFT for resistance to change, and my EFT for the inner child saboteaur on youtube…

    that really helps me turn stuff around

  385.  #385Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:26 pm


    Thanks! Gym memberships can be tricky. I’ve been wanting to rejoin the Y. I feel overwhelmed by endless expenses and bills.

    I feel excited that God’s Power to meet my needs is so awesome in comparison to my needs. I am about to read the book, The Power!

    I love my weakness. I give compassion to my inability to deal with bills and nasty people.

  386.  #386Lizzie on October 4, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Lorelei – I am not sure if your situation has been worked through yet – I did a quick scan and then shall go to bed…

    anyway, I have been in similar situations and I do have a big heart as well. I suggest a nice thank you note would be in order. Try this on for size –

    I would like to thank you for the lovely time I enjoyed with you over lunch and the visit to the new museum. I do believe it is important to take a bit of time to get to know someone and this time we spent together was worthwhile. I have not taken the time to reflect and sadly must say, that I am not feeling the kind of connection with you that I am looking for in a relationship. I do thank you and wish you much happiness in finding someone to love. Good luck.
    Yours, …

    In the meantime, please see this guy as a messager. It is possible he has brought to light some sadness you still hold for your father(?) and this may potentially be a little barrier within your heart. I truly believe people come into our lives for a reason – some are easy to see, other more difficult. You may have already thought of this.

    Good night!

  387.  #387Lizzie on October 4, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Oops a wrong word slipped in there –

    I have now taken the time to reflect….

  388.  #388Lizzie on October 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Oh and you can take out “with you” I think it will feel better….

    I have now taken the time to reflect and sadly must say, that I am not feeling the connection that I am looking for in a relationship.

    yes that is better.

    It is best you use your own words anyway – use mine for practice

  389.  #389Lizzie on October 4, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    good night Brenda
    good night Daria
    good night Rachel
    good night moon
    good night stars
    hello awesome bed….
    I am loving me! and all of you!

  390.  #390Daria on October 4, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Lorelei – oops i posted to Ella what I meant for you! oopsies… !

    “no you don’t have to go out with him if you feel that repulsed…

    I wouldn’t tell him much, unless he asks…

    you may feel more open to him in the future (has happened to me, thinking… hey maybe ill give this guy a chance now… months later when i got over the initial icky feelings)”

  391.  #391Honey on October 4, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Lorelei – good for you just for going on the date. It’s hard to reject someone when one is tenderhearted. I usually just try to say something nice about them and that I just didn’t feel we were a match. I try to keep it short.

    Lola –
    I am so sorry for what you’re going through. I feel really angry about him not considering your daughter after that much time. I am so, so sorry.

  392.  #392Nikita on October 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    Nite, pa…..nite John boy 😉

  393.  #393Honey on October 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    Oh crap…now another guy wants to call me. He sounds really good, though.

    OK, I’m going to have to “notify” them that I’m hiding my profile but am still “open for business”. This is like a part-time job. Thanks for the tips on handling the “rotation”…I need to do some quick coffee dates and start weeding out because I’ve got 5 good ones and I don’t know if I can handle more than 2 in rotation

  394.  #394Nikita on October 4, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    I love that picture 🙂 soooooo girly….Loving the hair.

  395.  #395Nikita on October 4, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    3 in rotation…..otherwise we risk the ping pong/either or pattern/factor…… 3 is a good number 🙂

  396.  #396Honey on October 4, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    OMG, #5 just called me. I just gave him my number and he called even though it’s past 10:00, and I said I was going to bed in my email when I sent the number. He also didn’t say who was calling…he just assumed I would know…and I’m thinking, “Holy S*#@, which on is this?” until I figured it out from the conversation. Is that enough reason to take him off the list?

    What is the ping pong/either or pattern/factor?

    That’s it, I’m hiding my profile right now. Too much stress…will notify my “admirers” later.

  397.  #397Honey on October 4, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    And what’s up with those guys on Match who “favorite” you but never write? Guess they haven’t read RR’s book

  398.  #398Lorelei on October 4, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Morning all!

    Thanks everyone who commented on my date experience!

    Is it just me, or could doing online dating and being on this blog become a full-time job!!??!!

    The date with brain-injury guy does bring up some sadness about my late father (less about the loss, more about when he was alive) and I am letting myself feel the pain of having missed out on any sense that he could care for me, ‘get’ me, or even notice me emotionally, or take the initiative, emotionally.

    Jaqueline – thanks for the clarification on not having to keep in him rotation – not that I’ve got a rotation yet. I’m such a baby-newbie to all this. And I would feel that it was really unfair of me to give him any hope, because I cannot get sucked into a caretaking role (which has been my natural habitat in the past).

    Lizzie and Honey – thanks so much for the suggestions for a thank-you-and-goodbye note. I get that we don’t owe guys, and we don’t have to feel grateful! However, he did go and discretely pay for quite an expensive lunch for both of us all by himself, and for that I would like to send a thank you note, so I probably will, when I’ve found my own wording. Great suggestions.

    Daria – yes, going out with someone whose vibe really felt like my Dad (an old man, who just needs/wants someone to put energy into him) just feels too yukky. I suppose I could just leave it open, and refuse to pick up the ball that is now on the ground in my side of the court. Funny thing was, at first (emails, phone calls) there was the illusion of a masculine man who was doing a bit of pursing, but the illusion melted during the date, and I intuited much more about him. At one point, it flashed across my mind that he could also be gay. My gaydar isn’t bad, and it’s got a lot sharper since having a wonderful gay man as a best friend over the last two years. Whether this man is gay or not, my intuition was telling me something about a potential here for a friendship, but a certain lack of energy in certain other departments as well!!!!!

    Sorry – this sounds as if it’s turning into a report rather than full of feeling messages . .

  399.  #399Aaliyah on October 5, 2010 at 12:02 am

    Hey Rori, my boyfriend dumped me in August because he said that his feelings have changed =/ we were in a very serious relationship though, but till now & it’s october he still talks to me everyday ! he still cares about me a lot and i mean A LOT ! his always asking me questions like where i have been, how do i know this guy , why are you talking to him , you know the jealousy curious type questions, his always wanting to know everything about me still, what i do, where i go & EVERYTHING =/ , to me it feels like we are still going out & everytime i say we can’t talk anymore he’ll get really depressed & say things like ‘if you dont talk to me anymore, i’ll do something’ =S , its been nearly two months for our break up & i still love him a lot i wish i was back with him again 🙁 ive been doing everything for him! supporting him through rough times, still buy him stuff, he calls me when his sad & pretty much cries on the phone to me but i help him out, he gets jealous so easily =/ , he knows my email & facebook password & i know for a fact that he is always checking it . Ive been asking him to come back to me but he says he doesn’t love me =S , he says he likes talking to me and he doesnt want to stop =/ . We had this thing when we were together where we would turn our webcams on every night and sleep together, well he still does that with me! we still meet up for movies & everything . But i just dont get it :S Does he love me or not ? Will he come back to me 🙁 please help me out . How do i get him back ?

    Thanksss .

  400.  #400Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 12:09 am

    Soo – here are some feeling messages to start my day.

    I feel glad to be on here, and Brenda – I feel so sorry to hear about your clothes and blankets. I imagine the waterwheel of the universe bringing you some stuff to keep you warm.

    I feel tired but happy after a late night Salsa dancing last night. I feel soooo happy that I’ve found a class where there are almost always more men than women! Yay! I feel so happy for the practice in following not leading.

    I feel happy that after I sent out messages with my contact number at the end to 3 men online, one phoned almost immediately, and another is emailing to arrange a good time for him to call, because he’s on shift work.

    I feel worried that my husband seems to be trying to do his side of the divorce communications without going through a lawyer. He’s just sent a letter to my lawyer that he won’t contest the divorce if I will pay all the legal costs. Yikes. I’m afraid, and feeling very grim and apprehensive, that this is going to get really unpleasant ( and very expensive). I don’t want to be liable to pay his legal costs, and I can’t afford to pay all the court costs, especially as he could make the costs spiral. I feel tense and pressured in my shoulders and at the back of my ribs. UGGH.

    I feel annoyed with myself that the house is in a mess. But I feel hopeful that my new start is going to work out well. I know I’m back on my intuitive horse, after years of being lost, and despite all this, (tearing up now) I feel so grateful and relieved that as I respect my feelings and speak their truth, somehow I’m going to get through the divorce, and get on with and get better at circular dating.

  401.  #401Will on October 5, 2010 at 12:36 am


    I think I’ve been doing alot of things right in my new relationship thanks to your tools. Like leaning back, letting him row the boat and just being a girl. I had a real deep issue come up the other day, and I had a hard time talking to him about how I was feeling. I was upset and going between wanting to spill everything and being closed off. The end result was that he didn’t take care of me like I wanted. He just said, “Well if there’s nothing I can do about it, then I’m just going to be as cheerful as I can be, so that hopefully it cheers you up too because you’re obviously sad, and that makes ME sad.” After that I did tell him that I wanted him to talk to me when I don’t feel good. After I said it I felt regret that I had basically told him what to do insinuating he was doing something wrong (he wasn’t, I was just being super guarded and on a deeper level asking him to take my wall down for me). He said he didn’t want to pry and wasn’t likely to ever pressure me to talk but that he would be happy to listen to anything I was ever willing to share because he wants to know me “on that deeper heart level.” His words. I have no idea what this all means, ultimately. It feels passive on his part in a way, but I also feel a little like he’s perhaps on the right track moreso than even I am! I share myself openly and without it being pulled out of me (OH I can see why he’d think that’s icky, it felt icky typing that!), connect to his heart with my girl powers, and he takes care of me and loves me. So my question is, what can I do differently next time? I’m still working on my fears of intimacy and I get tongue tied and want to shut down when painful things come up — sharing and being open is still so foreign and scary!

  402.  #402Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 1:10 am

    Daria – let me be clearer (with myself). What flashed through me on the date (internal speech addressed to him, NOT you!!!!!!!!) was not “You could be gay,” it was “You’re gay.” It wasn’t a judgement, just a recognition. And it’s a recognition that, whenever I’ve had it recently, is not usually wrong . . no way of proving it, but if I’m listening to my intuition, this would be more of a deal-breaker than his health, and his neediness.

  403.  #403Daria on October 5, 2010 at 1:28 am

    I’m feeling sad because, my godson’s birthday is coming up, its either coming up in like 3 days, or its at the end of the month, i get them mixed up,

    and ive been thinking about them a lot

    and i think the kids are trying to dial my number because im getting a large amount of short missed calls from them…

    and i still feel angry at my godsister,

    and i feel afraid to go over there

    i dont want to feel bad

    i feel sad and heavy

    i love my heavy sad feeling.

    i Miss my godkids

    i feel sad

    i love my feelings

    i want this healed, angels, fast in away that feels good…

    thank you

  404.  #404Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Will – it sounds like you’re doing really well with the tools, but what came up was a bit of a challenge. I wonder – if you’re not already clear about why it is hard – do some getting in touch with your feelings about sharing the difficult stuff. I’ve sometimes found it helps to actually picture the relevant feelings as if they had bodies and personalities, so I can talk to them more. Fear of how other people will react to hearing it? Fear of rejection if people saw this aspect of you? Feelings of shame? Whatever the content of what you wanted to share with him, your feelings both about the content, and about what might happen if you share, are valid and part of you, and maybe you could embrace all your feelings around this, and welcome them as part of you, which might make them less scary. Do you find it helpful to write about this kind of thing, and to try scripting your feeling messages?

    How might things go if you talked a bit in feeling messages to him about why it is hard for you to open up – not stuff about him but about your feelings and fears about how people might react to what you want to say. It might even be that you’re being triggered here in ways that are nothing to do with him, but more to do with past situations. If so, you could tell him, “I feel really triggered, wanting to talk about this, because it all makes me feel X and Y, which are really about Z which happened in the past. What do you think? Or, if you find it’s more about just wondering how he’ll react to current stuff,”I feel so afraid to talk about this stuff, but that’s my own fear talking not you. I want to tell you, I want you to SEE me, and I want to overcome my inhibitions about this. What do you think?”

    I’m so new to this, and what I really want to say is that feeling messages will get you there. There is always the risk that he won’t be able to cope – feeling messages about our authentic reality do reveal who the real men are, those with enough emotional muscle to “catch” and hold what we have to say, to reassure us, and to appreciate our emotional reality. Feeling messages also reveal who can’t do that. I have already seen this in action. The other Sirens will have lots of other ideas, and will be able to improve on my suggestions, but I feel for you that it feels very tricky to negotiate. But i feel that you will find the words and the way forward.

  405.  #405BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:30 am

    #370 Lorelie

    Well first of all so sorry first date wasn’t what you thought it would be. I have mostly found the online guys to be older/heavier/shorter.

    And yes Rori does say that you can tell the guy you are not interested thank God!!

    Lizzie has posted some wonderful replies on here which I have saved for future reference 🙂

  406.  #406BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:40 am

    #373 Brenda

    I feel sooo bad that you lost all your stuff, I don’t know the law in the USA but here in Australia they have to give you written notice when you are overdue on your payments and a time frame, they can’t just bloody dump your stuff. Hoping you get this resolved very quickly. xxx

  407.  #407BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:46 am

    #375 Rachel

    See this is where I have such a dichotomy trying to learn from the emails/blogs/lessons………

    In your situation are you supposed to be all warm and loving and open like an invitation because you know you were busy busy busy elsewhere with your dating CD life and he is just another date…..


    Are you supposed to TELL him how you really really feel, like I feel pissed off that I was waiting for a call and it never came or I feel annoyed that I was “stood up” ……..or whatever…….

    I don’t understand this part of the RR way at all I have to say….you are either one thing or the other……

  408.  #408BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:48 am

    Then again how can you get pissed off at a man who is in Afghanistan or Iraq defending our countries, it’s not like he is hotfooting it around town living it up and chasing skirts is it??

  409.  #409BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:58 am

    And Brenda this is ABSOLUTELY none of my business, and Rori I am sorry if you are reading this no disrespect intended but Brenda instead of ordering more DVD’s trying to get Ryan back into your life wouldn’t it be more worthwhile for you to use that monthly money to pay off your storage costs? Maybe the owner will let you pay it off until you are up to date, I know $35 a month isn’t a lot but it is when you don’t have it………maybe you could cut corners elsewhere and pay your storage costs off……..sorry for butting in and please don’t take offense. I am not financially in a very good position myself at the moment and am having to work 6 days a week to break even……I have only been able to afford one set of Rori’s DVD’s…..maybe in the future I will be able to buy more but that’s all I can afford for now…….

  410.  #410Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 3:54 am

    Hi Barb -thanks for the support. I feel strongly that he was just my starter-date! I’m already forgetting about him and going “Next!” And there are a few “nexts” coming into view. And I learned a lot about myself, and the sometimes fight between my intuition and my ingrained training in being so bl**dy polite and “nice”. Just have to stay with my horse. I’m quite happy about it really, and the more I reflect, the more I feel a little thank-you note (for the expensive lunch) but also “I’m not feeling a connection” stuff is the way to go. But I’m not rushing, either.

    And your question – again, I’ll be needing these very soon too, I feel sure! Brenda has some great suggestions up at #295. As far as I can understand, Sirens are open, warm, inviting (but not just “nice”) at the same time as speaking the truth of their feelings clearly and simply. I totally understand how it feels like a contradiction. But I’ve just realised, literally, just now writing to you, realised he speaking the truth of our feelings IS the authentic, warm, loving open invitation, even when it’s to say how you felt about the guy not doing what he said he would, or anything that seems “negative.” I like the examples that begin, “I feel awkward bringing this up, but . . ” In the Toxic Men programme, one of Rori’s guest speakers advises that we call a guy on his BS**t, and don’t just let it go.

  411.  #411BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 4:12 am

    Hi LoreleiI

    Yes this is just your first date of many LOL!! Well I had my first niceish guy last Saturday and another lined up for probably this weekend. I too am the “nice” type, but I know I need to overcome this or I will get stuck in this pattern for the rest of my life. I have no idea where I get this from, this all being soo bloody polite and nice, even when I don’t feel it, and I sooo get one thing from this whole programme that is when I am NOT feeling good or “nice” that I don’t have to stuff down my feelings, I need to state it authentically yet politely how I FEEL inside…….I have a long way to go and sometimes I feel like such a learner besides you more advanced Sirens……but babysteps right…..this is a whole new learning curve for me…….and others…..

  412.  #412Alonka on October 5, 2010 at 5:31 am


    I have Rori’s book and I think these tools are excellent, but there are other ways to communicate with men and they’re not contradictory to Rori’s theory. Also, there are always exceptions;)
    Explaining non- contradictory: when I say that you can deliver your bfriends stuff, you are getting rid of the problem if wondering what he is gonna do with it, seeing it sitting there every day, because it doesn’t help at all, does it and so you can start recovering faster. The message tells him the same thing: you made your choice, I’m on my part choosing to be happy with what I got at the moment, not being angry or crying in the corner and live my life. It’s when he tries to contact me again I’d tell him how I feel and whether I see us talking again or not;)

  413.  #413Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 6:06 am

    Barb – you get it from your English genes!!!

  414.  #414Lorelei on October 5, 2010 at 6:09 am

    I’m going to start posting news on the brand new thread about 5 steps to finding your soulmate . . I get confused when I post on more than one thread at once!

  415.  #415MAC on October 5, 2010 at 7:21 am

    I know that circular dating will help but its been 5 days since I got a call from somene I have been dating for 3 months…….so I am thinking to write it off and move on??? If he does call what do I say???
    I know what I WANT to say LOL but not sure how to say it…..

  416.  #416LonePlum on October 5, 2010 at 7:22 am

    Hello Pretty Brenda 🙂

    I have not bought any of RR tools yet, but I am reading with passion her free advice.
    I was thinking : if we divide a page in 2 columns and write in the left column what is the owner storage business and in the right column what is your own business, it might help you avoid this situation in the future.
    You will see why blaming the storage owner is stopping your horse. Take your power back. You have everything to win in owning the responsibility for your own actions.

    Thank you RoRi for this wonderful web site and thank you Brenda, Daria and all wonderful brave sirens who process out in the open. You are teaching me so much about myself, it is magical.

    RoRi Raye rocks! You all rock.

  417.  #417Allison on October 5, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Thank you Jaqueline! Some support would be great… My true feelings are this, that I feel I will tell him…
    “I feel so involved with you and that feels perfect, but I also feel like one of many, and that feels constricting and confusing. I want to feel comfortable openly and intimately baring my soul, but I feel a huge obstacle. I want to feel like I’m the only one. Of course, you have every right to date as many women as you like, but not if you want to be with me. What do you think we should do?”
    I just feel sick thinking of telling him this! I wish I could just text it to him, but that may feel too disconnected? I should at least call him, or text him to say I want to talk to him about something that is important? I’m just afraid that when I try to speak I will feel frozen!

  418.  #418Allison on October 5, 2010 at 7:35 am

    The last time I was on here was when Rori posted my letter back at the end of April, “The Amazing Man Who Cannot Love You Right” when he broke up with me, but he kept in contact with me nearly every day while he was dating another girl, then when he decided that wasn’t gonna work out, he came back and has been treating me a million times better than he ever did before. He used to treat me kinda more like a friend with benefits but we saw each other at least 3 times a week and he did call me every day. Now he is really stepping up and showing he cares a lot for me and my 3 year old daughter, except for this one thing that really bugs me!!

  419.  #419Renee on October 5, 2010 at 7:36 am

    Barb — my understanding of whether you let a guy know you’re disappointed he didn’t call has a lot to do with where you are in the relationship. When that happened to me in a relationship that was only a few weeks old, Rori encouraged me to just let it go because at that point, he was still feeling out the situation and likely hadn’t made up his mind yet what he wanted with me.

    If I remember correctly, Rori has said in the past that you may need to give a guy a couple of months of “casual” dating (on rare occasions, like if your schedules are too busy to get together often, that might be stretched out a few more months) before he starts thinking of the two of you as officially “dating” and that once your relationship is more established, you would be ok to mention being disappointed about his not calling, but more often than not, Rori seems to really prefer that we not give men a hard time about not calling as often as we want. She seems to prefer that we use their behavior to evaluate whether we like the way they treat us and whether we feel good around them (and when we’re apart from them).

    I’m not sure if I helped clarify this at all, but that was the take away I got when she used my question about the guy not calling as a blog post (it was my very first blog post from July). She said I was too wrapped up in him too soon (and she was right, particularly given how little heart-to-heart conversations we’d had, which was my fault because I didn’t know about feeling messages yet).

    Rachel — because you all are in a long-term relationship, I think it might be ok to say something like, “I hesitate to bring this up because I know we don’t get to talk that often, but you know last week when we didn’t get a chance to chat on Sunday? It felt weird to me because I didn’t get a note or anything letting me know. What do you think?”

    Does that sound like that might work for you?

  420.  #420Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 8:50 am


    I have issues with anything negative in my life: I have the unhealthy tendency to block it out. I am really struggling with debt. I blocked out that I was behind, because I felt overwhelmed and icky. It isn’t the first time. I would go insane if I kept my debt forefront in my mind. But I know blocking it out isn’t the best way to handle it either. I am trying to find a balance, and I am trying to find help. And, I am here because I am not perfect. I feel embarrassed.

  421.  #421Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 8:54 am


    RE: #413 – See #416. Also, one approach could be something like this:

    Man: Hi, how are you?
    MAC: I feel confused.
    Man: Why?
    MAC: I feel so happy to hear your voice, but I also feel a little bad that I haven’t heard from you so long. What do you think?

    I hope that helps.

  422.  #422Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Yes, the law is they have to have tried to send me a certified letter. She did not do that. I have grounds to take her to court about throwing away my belongings.

    I called the trash company and they said it’s already in the landfill and covered over.

  423.  #423Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 9:14 am


    RE: #395 – I don’t like it when I give my number to a man, saying I am going to bed. It seems insensitive that he called you anyway, and that has happened to me more than once. If it were me, I would just let it go but watch for his sensitivity level and self-centeredness level. Yuck.

  424.  #424Lucy on October 5, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Allison, the thing that stands out to me in your situation is this:

    “he kept in contact with me nearly every day while he was dating another girl”

    … and now he is on — possibly keeping in contact with some other girls nearly every day while he is dating YOU.

    So, he’s being consistent — doing the same thing with other girls that he was doing with you while he was dating someone else.

    I am in a situation right now where a man with a girlfriend keeps in touch with me fairly often — and I know I would not want to be HER in this situation. However, their relationship is somewhat “open” — I don’t know exactly what their parameters are — and she is bisexual — so I am assuming that she is okay with his connection with me. But *I* would not want that for myself.

  425.  #425Lola on October 5, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Jaqueline, Alonka, Honey
    Hope I didn’t miss anyone out because I am not firing on all my cylinders!

    I didn’t call or text him. I woke up really angry, he didn’t even say goodbye at the end of the phone conversation let alone since…

    His best friend’s wife called today and left a message and I felt my stomach sink and I thought she was calling to say how sorry she was etc, but she didn’t know, she was calling to invite me and him to her husband’s birthday party. I fill really sh1tty at the thought of them all enjoying themselves without me! and worse than I did before she’d called.

    Thank you for your thoughts and kind words.

    Brenda that a cool avatar! : )


  426.  #426Lucy on October 5, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Question for everyone who has an opinion:

    It is cold and rainy here today, so I am wondering if I should still wear a skirt to my date tonight like I was planning originally, or if it would be okay to feel warm and cozy in black pants and a feminine top.

    We are just meeting for drinks. (First meet with Doc.)


  427.  #427Denise on October 5, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Hi Lorelie- Here are some ideas for online dating. Before going on a date with a man, after a handful of emails, then I request he call me. Question these things in a call to judge whether it is worth your time meeting; many men I speak to I decide to save my time and gas for other options.

    1. Inquire as to their real age – many lie. Last week one lied to me to the tune of over ten years. They like to think of themselves as younger. Reality rules. If they lie about this, what else do they lie about?
    2. Inquire to the age of the pictures posted- are they current? Some post shots that are from 15 years ago.
    3. Did he ask much about you? If he doesn’t, chances are he won’t in person.
    4. Do you share any commonalities?
    5. What are dealbreakers for you? Does he exercise? Does he smoke? Have a major illness? Not talk to his parents?
    6. Trust yor instinct.

    Ladies- what is with all those loosers who mark you as a favorite and then never contact you?
    And why do so many men throw their numbers at us in the first or second email and expect us to call? They would not do that in the first paragraph of conversation if we meet out and about. I do hear than the women are very aggressive on these sites. I always give the “I’m old fashioned… speech.”

    L- get ready for your next opportunity! Good luck.

    Brenda, sorry for your horrible loss and experience. I would say take a legal recourse, if you are up to the battle.

    Allison, I would not text him. This conversation needs to be in person. Do you circular date others?

  428.  #428Lucy on October 5, 2010 at 10:23 am

    One reason men favorite us and don’t contact —

    They know we are not a good match, but they like to look at us. 🙂

    I have had a few men actually tell me that they did this with me (my smile and eyes cheer them up and make them feel good).

    And… I have done the same thing with men who feel good to look at but are definitely not right for me. 🙂

  429.  #429Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 10:28 am


    Thank you! I admit, the picture is ten years old. But I like it because my friend gave me a makeover and then she and her husband gave me a photo session at their home so I could have sexy internet dating photos!

  430.  #430Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 10:29 am

    P.S. But I really don’t look that much different now. I got carded Friday night at a bar! 🙂 Love it!

  431.  #431Brenda on October 5, 2010 at 10:31 am


    RE: #420 – Wear whatever you are comfortable in. I think black pants and a top are fine. One time a male counselor told me a man likes to see a woman in a dress. But it’s really fine one way or the other. You look beautiful even with jeans and sneakers! 🙂