Open The Doors And Let Love In

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cropped-bluecloudheart.jpgThis is a whole new area I’m now investigating and working with myself – and want to share with you…

From the first moment you get the hang of this… It feels like magic.

Is feels like your life is a new – all of a sudden.

It feels like your brain stopped running you and all of a sudden you’re free!

I know saying you’ll “feel free” is a mouthful. It’s a lot to promise… And yet….

That’s where were going here. Freedom.

People in the healing profession have always been talking about feeling “free,” and since I began my own work journey as a writer and coach – I’ve always thought it was just a bunch of easy-to-say, general words.

It’s such an easy word – to say, “free.”

What does that really mean? To be free?

Most of us don’t feel free at all!

We have children, we have family, we have a life partner – or want to have a life partner. We have friends. We have obligations. We have responsibilities.

We have to go to work!

We have presentations to make, assignments and bills that are due, places to take our kids, places we need to be, the basics like food and shelter…

No, we are not locked in a prison. We are not run by someone else.

And yet, if we look at all the “have to’s” stacked up in our lives – it hardly feels like an environment that promotes freedom.

Yet, so many incredible people who have been incarcerated, or captured, or ill, or limited in motion, have told us over the centuries that freedom is within.

That you can feel free no matter what your circumstances are.

And again, that feels hard to visualize. It’s hard to imagine. It’s hard to emotionally get a glimmer of a sense of.

And it’s really easy to roll your eyes when somebody talks about it.

So let’s just take a baby step in this direction. I call this the Open The Door Tool:

It looks like this:

1. Catch yourself in a moment where you’re deep in thought, looking down at the floor, thinking about something, feeling a complaint rising up in your body, examining a grievance… And imagine that all around you is an open space of the unknown.

Imagine “Stuff” is there that you have no idea about.

2. Feelings may come up – and just be with them as you can feel them…

3. Now imagine that you’re just allowing doors everywhere to open ….let them open out…

4. Say to yourself “open the doors.”

It’s like the Paul McCartney song “….open the door and let him in… ” …only you’re not letting something specific in. Because you don’t know what’s out there!

You’re simply opening the door to nothing and everything … To total chaos and confusion… To the total unknown.

The moment I open the doors… I feel an instant sense of relief. It’s as though all my energy was going into guarding the doors.

All my fear was behind these closed doors!

I didn’t know what was out there, so it’s hard to be afraid of it! It’s the opening of the doors that I was feeling fear around.

So the moment I just throw open the doors, let them open and let everything that’s out there see me, feel me, confront me… All of a sudden it’s so much easier to not be in my head.

Try it.

Next time you feel pigeonholed, stuck somewhere, say to yourself, “open the doors” – and let them open.

See what it feels like to be completely in the unknown. See if it helps you drop your guard without “trying” or “effort.”

Let me know how this works for you, and we’ll keep talking about it…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Leela on March 27, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    Wow! This feels so amazing and powerful. As I do this tool I can indeed feel my energy shifting from being all in my head to feeling curious about what is it out there, what will transpire if I open the doors of the unknown, what new ideas will it bring, thoughts, feelings, beliefs etc.

    Thank you Rori for sharing this

  2.  #2Daria on March 27, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    ok i tried it 🙂 and then I read the post about what am I not feeling.

    and I was feeling sad

    and i thought what i was NOT feeling was joy… which was in my head way of figuring it out…

    and then as i read the post it said you’re afraid to feel what you’re not feeling…

    hence the stuckness

    and i got it

    what am i NOT feeling that I’m afraid to feel

    and it was ANGER

    I went to a deep kinda stuck depressive feeling that felt sad because I didn’t want to or was afraid to feel ANGER

    and this is a familiar pattern for me, i can remember it being triggered

    now i feel Joy and excitement!


    Rori and me wins the day for everybody! /yay11 circle of hand holding dancing people and frolicking sheep

  3.  #3Daria on March 27, 2016 at 7:19 pm

    oops Rori if you can can you remove my last name from the previous comment thanks 🙂

  4.  #4Tereana on March 27, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    Wow, Rori…once again with the timely posts. I so needed this concept and this practice right now, at this very moment. And to be very honest, I didn’t even believe in it, as you started describing it. But then, even as I read it, and visualized all the doors opening, and the free air (imaginary air – all the “stuff”) flowing through and around me, refreshing me…I could feel a difference.

    Thank you 🙂

  5.  #5Daria on March 27, 2016 at 7:47 pm

    im back in the rhythm of life… back in the rhythm of life 🙂

  6.  #6Angela on March 27, 2016 at 8:18 pm

    Opening the doors hmm..
    What am I afraid of right now?
    What is next in my life? ahh i want to hide from it.
    Why do i fear it won’t be good.
    Ugh trust yourself please !
    Open doors windows see what happens let go of fear for a tiny bit.
    Ah what does it feel to not be in my head all the time?
    It feels hmm my body is loose hmm fear excitement in my chest.
    He left, my live in boyfriend of 2 years left …
    Open the door darling, dont close off to love.
    But part of me feels like it.
    Closing the doors to everyone that is not him.
    I thought it would be easier to let him go and its not.
    Do i love him? idk
    I want him to be a certain way the way he is not and it bothered me for too long.
    Hmm he didnt do what i asked (which is not bad), but if you are, or we are willing to break up over that then it wasn’t meant to be…
    Its not fair i want to be loved and i want it to be easy!
    I want the man to love me.
    Hmm what is next?
    I yearn for the familiar.
    I yearn for him.
    Ah breakups hurt.
    But i have to keep my heart opened.
    Believe in my goodness and his too.
    We are just different too different.
    Do i want him back?
    Maybe if he comes back begging me on his knees, willing change, to do what will make me happy and give me peace of mind . I want to be a goddess. A goddess doesn’t wonder what went wrong a goddess tries all of roris tools and if the man isn’t for me i let him go!
    I deserve that!
    I won’t let this breakup lead me down depression! No
    I will feel sad but will choose to open my doors to wonderful possibilities to my own joy, to celebrating, even him from afar, to love, ah i love him yes, can i live with a lazy man again no!
    I am beautiful good kind i want what i want.
    I want devotion ok love and all the romance that is possible.
    I dont want no sex, no love, lies.
    Hmm i am in the middle of a breakup yet i will try to choose opening up…it will be ok life loves me, the universe wants me to be happy!
    Next time around i want a man committed to me all the way.
    Is that possible?
    Yes it is!
    Ah yes it is!
    I kind of want a man to do whatever i ask, as long as its reasonable is that too much to ask?

  7.  #7Mandy on March 27, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    Indigo – PS

    Thank you for your help, I appreciate it more than you know, and I must admit I’m still feeling really bad about getting cross with you a few blog posts ago. I am cognitively keeping aware of my sensitivity and defensiveness, when receiving advice here, so as not to have it happen again.
    Still sorry about that!

  8.  #8Indigo on March 27, 2016 at 11:54 pm


    I’m so glad I was able to help, and please know that the only reason I am is because I have BEEN there myself.

    That is the only reason I say what I say – because I know what it’s like to grapple with exactly these things you are grappling with.

    And as for being sorry about getting cross with me – it’s ok. Again, and I really hope you can see how I’m stressing this, I’ve BEEN there. I myself have gotten unreasonably cross with people who loved me and were saying the things I needed to hear, and so please know that there’s no judgment from me – I’ve been there, and I’ve done it, and I understand.

  9.  #9Tee on March 28, 2016 at 6:44 am

    “So the moment I just throw open the doors, let them open and let everything that’s out there see me, feel me, confront me… All of a sudden it’s so much easier to not be in my head.”

    This struck a chord. I spend so much time trying NOT to be seen. Double edged sword really :/

  10.  #10Mandy on March 28, 2016 at 7:47 am


    AH! I was JUST asking my mom about this!

    She used to be very timid and shy when she was young…NOW…for example, my twin brother and I have had learning disabilities and my mom is a special Ed teacher, and she knows the law about how if a school accepts federal money, they have to go by the rule of if anyone has a disability, the instructors have to give accommodations to the special needs student. Well, when some instructors wouldn’t give my brother and I accommodations, my mom got in their faces, literally, bit their fool heads off, and threatened legal action. Doesn’t sound so timid huh? Well…she wasn’t always like that, lol.

    I asked her what changed things. She said well, when people start messing with your kids and they are very vulnerable being prematurely born, etc, you stop being timid…

    It didn’t happen for her until then, when she had us at age 30…I am 34 and I haven’t had anything push me right past the sensitivity. It’s happening but I’m not being thrust into it…it’s slow.

    Sticking up for yourself is tricky, when you don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings…

    Feels really…tricky…confusing…frustrating…

    And I do appreciate your understanding…

    Can you pinpoint something that changed it for you, Indigo? Did you go through anything that made a change?

    Good thing is – I’ve somewhat mastered the idea that it’s none of my business what’s going on in a man’s head, so I can attempt to apply that tool to everyone, really. Like, not even consider what some may be thinking of me, not even assume they ARE thinking anything about me…maybe they are thinking about fluffy kittens, who knows?

    Well Indigo I feel a lot of good feeling radiating out from my chest and going into my arms after typing that to you because I feel heard by you and soothed. Thank you…

  11.  #11Mandy on March 28, 2016 at 7:52 am

    PS…I mentioned something on here once about Facebook pages.

    It’s hard not to go onto a page of a guy I’m attracted to and ogle his pictures, even though he likes it..

    Okay yes I said it out loud, even though it’s embarrassing, lol!!!!!

    GAH! Pesky sexual peak hormones! They throw me off all the time… Breathing techniques are in order….!

  12.  #12Tereana on March 28, 2016 at 10:50 am

    Ok that exercise is so good. But I still feel in a STUCK place. I feel a cramping around my heart. And my head. I didn’t DO this.

    All I expressed was a little anger.

    I said I was annoyed at something. I asked for a boundary.

    And then WHAM. Out of there. Not even a discussion. Not even a response or an acknowledgement of how I was hurt – how I felt. Just nothing. Bye. See you.

    This guy….why did I go there?

    Why did I open up to him?

    Why did I think I could trust?

    Because he was so NICE??? Too nice. But that was the problem – because he isn’t really nice. He out on “nice” on the outside. But now I have seen the inside. He is not nice. He is not respectful. He cannot see or hear or acknowledge my boundaries. He isn’t that different from my parents. He is just another kind of narcissist in a different form. He is a narcissist who LOOKS and acts like a “nice guy.” (There are a lot of those, actually, I believe.)

    I think he has shown his true colors. But again – why this? Why this way? Why now? WHY – when I finally let myself get vulnerable, get close? When I let him get close to me?

    I believe this is his “stuff” also. This is his ugly abandonment issue coming up and rearing its head. This is his father, leaving him and his mother. This is him, leaving me, so that it doesn’t have to hurt. This is him, expecting perfection where there isn’t any. Taking the blame for something that isn’t his fault. Acting out a scene, a scenario, that is past and gone. And I don’t know what else.

    Only that it feels WRONG. Only that my heart is suddenly turn apart, with no warning. This was not some stupid hookup. This was a person that I cared about, DEEPLY. Who I still care about, regardless. In spite of the imperfections. In spite of all the things that give me pause. I still saw him as someone who could be worthwhile to me. I saw him as someone who could really be my partner. Who wanted me for me, and not just my sex.

    But maybe it was just sex. Maybe that was all he wanted, all along.

    So I wonder: what is the point?

    If even the nicest man is, in bed, a heartless selfish jerk who is eventually going to leave you, WHAT IS THE FREAKING POINT? Why get close? Why open up? Why have hard conversations and work and fight for a relationship if it MEANS NOTHING??????????

    It doesn’t mean nothing. It doesn’t mean nothing. It doesn’t mean nothing.

    I am torn between wanting to stay quiet, to let him come to me, and half of me that wants to jump on a plane and fly to him right now. Except I can’t. Because I can’t buy a plane ticket. I just spent all my money on the trip I just took.

    I don’t know what I am asking for. I don’t know what I need here. I am just so blindsided. So ripped apart. So surprised, and so angry. I feel angry in the way you feel angry when you know someone who has committed suicude, or wants to. You feel mad, because you see them about to give up. I want to shout at him: don’t give up!! You’ve worked too hard for this. You’ve waited too long. You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Maybe even literally.

    There were some very serious things I wanted to talk abut with him. IMPORTANT things. Meaningful things. Now he is shutting down and shutting me out. And I KNOW that it is because of him and not me. Yet I can’t make him stop. I can’t get him to turn away from what he is doing. He’s suddenly made up his mind. And it doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense.

    I guess you can’t stop a guy from walking away from love if that’s what he wants to do.

    My heart is breaking. Help Me.

    I didn’t see this coming…

  13.  #13Indigo on March 28, 2016 at 11:02 am


    What happened exactly??

    And why are you even thinking of getting on a plane to a man who is running from you?

  14.  #14Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:47 am

    (((Angela))) #6
    Ahhh… brave Siren!
    Yes… relax (I know, easy for me to say)
    Slathering YOU with lots of warm, pink huggs and love!!
    I have found when I am in a space of chaos…
    literally wrapping my arms around myself does really help
    and going to a mirror and looking at myself
    and telling ME all the things I LOVE about ME!!

    You’ve got this goddess Warrior!
    To me I feel like you are ready for Something Wonderful
    and good for ***YOUR***

  15.  #15Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    on March 22 from last thread you told your friend:

    “And then I really opened up. I even surprised myself. That night, we were together,
    and I decided
    that I wanted to have sex with him.
    It seemed maybe a little premature,
    and yet, I was there and that was what I wanted.
    I told him that.

    And I told him it didn’t have to “mean anything.”

    Although on another level, I did want it to “mean something.”
    But now I have to live by what I said, that it doesn’t “mean anything.”

    So yesterday I flew back, and today I am home. When I left, I asked him, “What do we do now?”

    He said, “I don’t know. I have no plans.”

    I felt a little disappointed,
    like maybe I wanted him to have some plans.

    But in fact, I shrugged and smiled and said,
    “Well, neither to do I.”

    I know for me…. whenever I have NOT been Authentic and Vulnerable…
    It ALWAYS… pushes the man away…
    from what I can see…
    He might be feeling VERY manipulated and
    I know I would be…

  16.  #16Liquid Light on March 28, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    I had an awesome date yesterday. Date #3 with a new CD.

    We went wine tasting and then viewed art in the winery’s art collection. One of my favorite artist’s had work there. The wine tasting was incredible, each wine was fantastic. And then the art show was amazing. We did an audio tour and we both really enjoyed it.

    Finally, he surprised me by taking me out to dinner at a great Italian restaurant. We drank a bottle of the wine that he purchased at the winery. It was absolutely delicious.

    He really opened up to me about his family. And I shared a lot about mine. He is so easy to talk to. It was really touching. With my ex, we never really talked deeply about anything, we just always had fun. So this feels really nice and different to me. And a bit scary. He’s really a sweetheart!

    On the physical front, we kissed a little and it was nice. But he had bad breath. LOL. So that was a bit of a turn-off.

    Overall, though, the date was off the charts amazing. At the end of the date (all in all we spent the whole day together) he gave me a bottle of wine that he purchased from the winery. So sweet!!!

  17.  #17Liquid Light on March 28, 2016 at 1:19 pm

    A couple more things about my date, would like to get your thoughts…

    I hardly hear from him between dates. No phone calls and no texts (only to line up next date.) Its a bit weird. Not bad weird but a bit different. I don’t really mind taking it slowly but it is throwing me off a bit. In between dates, I make up all sorts of stuff about him (like he’s married, like he’s a player, like he’s – you name it). But then when I see him, it’s always a great time. So not sure what to make of the lack of contact in between dates? Any thoughts?

    The other thing that’s different is that he’s not all over me. LOL. I’m kinda used to that and have come to expect it unfortunately. I don’t really like that kind of behavior and feel like its not respectful. So not that its bad, its actually really nice, just, again, different. He does touch me, and holds my hand, and strokes my hair, and hugs me. He was starting to kiss me in public at the bar but I don’t really like that kind of PDA so I pulled back. He respected that. But he’s just not all over me in that way…you know I mean. Again, its not a bad thing, but its just different…

  18.  #18Tereana on March 28, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    Azure Blu – I think you are right. I should listen to myself. (You didn’t say it. I’m just taking it an extra step.) You made an interesting choice of words – “inauthentic.” “Manipulated.”

    You are right that I might have been slightly inauthentic. The truth is, I didn’t know it at the time. Or if I did, I ignored it and stuffed it down. Was I eager to please? What? Or was I just too far past the “point of no return” by then, to where I “had” to complete the act, no matter what the results. Yeah, I think it was the latter. It wasn’t that I didn’t make him stop. He would have let me. I didn’t make *myself* stop. It was just a functional thing, at that point. And it may have been a mistake.

    But here is what I don’t get: why can’t I have one – just ONE relationship where the sex does not herald the end of the relationship? ONE. And now this isn’t some random guy. This was a guy that I believed to be my friend. Now I don’t see him that way. I see him as a predator.

    If anyone feels manipulated here, it is me. If anyone feels lied to, or as if the other person was not authentic, it is definitely me. He said something about how he feels, and that wasn’t it. And guys don’t mince words. They don’t say what isn’t on their mind.

    It’s the fact that he represented himself as this honest and forthright guy who really cared a it me and was concerned for my feelings. And no. All he cared about was himself. The only person’s feelings that matter to him are his. He “got” what he wanted. And he liked it. But the thing he got that he liked was just sex. It wasn’t me. And now he’ll just throw me out with the trash. Four years. FOUR YEARS. And that’s what he does. I have no respect for that.

    For my part, I keep asking myself: why didn’t I just ask for what I want? Why didn’t I require that he have a relationship with me before we do that?

    When I talked to him next, that was what I was going to say – that sleeping with him was all well and good, but that if we were to do it again, then I would want there to be a relationship in place. I realized that I DID want it to mean something. I didn’t want it to mean nothing. And so much more. There was so much authenticity that I wanted to express. And I didn’t get the chance.

    No, I don’t think I was inauthentic. I think he showed himself to be like every other scumbag guy there is, no different. The act of him being a “friend” was a pretext for a long con of getting into my pants, just once, by plying me with teases of loneliness and appealing to all the things that are important to me. He pretended to be interested and caring. But in actual fact, he picked me as a victim. Someone he could manipulate into seducing, and then make me think it was all my idea, and blame me when the time came to drop my like a hot rock.

    Well, at this point, I might not answer the phone if he calls. I might give myself a week to recover, and then I’ll start dating again. I can’t blame myself for this. I won’t. I was there, I was present, I made my choices. I was honest about who I was – who I am. He wasn’t. In particular, he’s not been honest with himself. And that is not my problem. That is his problem. His loneliness is because of his own stuff, not his “crazy” exes. Of which I am not one. Thankfully.

    I’m going to go with “rejection is protection,” at this point.

    If he ever does get in touch with me again, and if he ever does ask me for a relationship, I am going to require that he work on his issues, and work on them HARD. They are not resolved. And I am going to require, if we ever sleep together again (that’s a big IF. That is, if I even let him TOUCH me again), that we be in a solid, committed relationship. That’s the only way it’s going to happen. I don’t want to mess around anymore.

    And maybe I didn’t do it this time. But I am one step closer – one relationship closer – to having what I need in order to say, unequivocally, “No I won’t sleep with you unless it means that we are getting married.”

    I like the way that thought feels.

    I think I’ve been afraid to really stick my neck out and ask for that. I am afraid it will be seen as too prudish, or that people won’t understand. Well, that’s too bad, I guess. If they don’t “understand,” then I won’t be sleeping with them, I guess. Lol

    It will be a fun experiment. I’ll have to try it and see what happens

  19.  #19Tereana on March 28, 2016 at 6:23 pm

    Indigo –

    The answer to your question (why get on a plane?) is that I know that if we were in the same space together, we would be having a different conversation. Or maybe we wouldn’t. But up until now, the conversations were different, because we were in the same physical space, at least for a time. And when things came up, we were able to talk through them and work through them. That doesn’t happen over text, because it is so easy for one person to just say, “Hey I’m not going to text you back.”

    It feels like he’s punishing me. For something I didn’t do.

    And the other answer to your question is: I’m not. I’m not getting on a plane, and I’m not going anywhere. What if I did? I think he would appreciate it? Oh sure, I imagine that he’d be sitting there with open arms. But he won’t. I could show up there and he might not be home. He might tell his neighbors that I’m stalking him. (Him – the one who told me with a lascivious grin that he had looked at every single one of my facebook photos. Which I guess was supposed to be a compliment, but it made me feel creeped out to the max.)

    Ugh. This guy is creepy creep-tastic, and the more I think about him, the more negative things I am thinking. The more I am realizing that my gut was yelling at me the whole time that something was wrong, and I wasn’t listening to it. I was too ready to be seduced by “Mr. Nice-guy.” Mr. I-help-everyone-and-I’m-everyone’s-friend. Mr. Look-at-my-crazy-dog-isn’t-he-cute?

    But I see what no one else sees, or at least they don’t call it out. He’s creepy because of how he covers up his predatory nature with seeming (but false) “niceness.” He’s creepy because of how obsessive and controlling he can be. He’s creepy because…he’s just creepy.

    The better question is why would I let myself get so involved with a creepster like that? The answer may be complicated on one hand, and simply on another. It’s complicated, because of my own past and my history – I am used to people who dissemble and treat badly and abuse boundaries and call it “love.” That feels normal to me. It even feels good….at first. And it’s simple because that’s how guys like him work. They thrive on appearing to be a nice, sweet beta male, when in fact, all they are interested in is conquering, controlling, and annihilating.

    He’s a dangerous man. Maybe he’s safe enough for “polite society.” But he is a dangerous man for me.

    So yeah. I’m going to go back to “rejection is protection,” and feel grateful for the giant favor he has just done me.

    Thank you and Amen.

  20.  #20Tereana on March 28, 2016 at 6:30 pm

    And thank you, Ladies – Sirens – for once again letting me vent. I really needed it.

    (And what is up with the formatting on this site? It keeps going wonky, back and forth between the normal layout and what looks like a back-end version… confusing)

  21.  #21Posie on March 28, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    Tee, how long did you know this guy? I’m not following the story at ALL from what you’re saying. You said he was a friend for four years or something? Or is this the one you had just started dating online?

    And what exactly did he do? Did I miss that part?

  22.  #22MissStix on March 28, 2016 at 7:41 pm

    I did the visualization…
    I can do this. I feel exposed…intrigued…curious…anxious…kind of mixed up and refreshed.
    Let love in.
    I feel some small resentment clinging to my ribs.
    Breathe into it.
    It’s so gorgeous out right now. Violet velvet horizon, clear blue sky, fresh springtime evening air. Inhaling all the beautiful energy.
    Looking forward to a new week. Feels like a fresh start.

  23.  #23MissStix on March 28, 2016 at 7:48 pm


  24.  #24Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 10:33 pm

    Liquid Light #17
    I can understand your confusion about not hearing much from your date inbetween.

    Did you meet this man online?
    You mentioned wondering if he is married…
    do you ask these questions before you go on the first date?
    I try to always ask if they are married (it usually says on their profile) but I still ask
    and how long has it been since their last relationship… Not like an inquisition but in a friendly way… actually alot of times the guys bring it up…

    After a few more dates (its only been 3 dates) I’ll bring up about
    “I feel happy hearing your voice.” or
    “I feel close talking on the phone”
    “I’m feeling so happy getting to know you…It would feel good talking more often… what do you think?”
    Those are some things I have said to CDs…
    It’s always fun to stretch my comfort zone…
    And practice being more vulnerable
    which is VERY hard for me…
    after all our CD’s are our free therapy and practice!!
    Go for it amazing Siren…Liquid Light!!

  25.  #25Indigo on March 28, 2016 at 10:33 pm


    What Posie said in #21. I’m not following the story/what happened at all.


    You said:
    “For my part, I keep asking myself: why didn’t I just ask for what I want? Why didn’t I require that he have a relationship with me before we do that?”

    I’m not suggesting you blame yourself, not at all, because blame is rarely helpful, and rarely accurate… but were you dating this man? Had he taken you out, expressed romantic interest in you, or was he just a friend you had known for a long time and you decided to try sleeping together?

    I can see you’ve learnt a lot from this experience, and I just thought it might be helpful to you to let you know about two more-or-less scientific facts about men and sex/dating with them:
    * The research conducted is overwhelmingly in favour of the relationship not lasting if you have sex too soon or prior to commitment.
    * Men can sleep with almost any woman they find attractive. But it takes them a good 3 or 4 months of seeing someone regularly to bond to them.

    I don’t mean to make you feel worse. But these two things I find very helpful and sober me up very quickly when I am getting to know a new man and feeling the temptation to invest or sleep with him too quickly.

  26.  #26Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:31 pm

    I feel sad that you are sounding so despondent…
    hugggs to you darling…

    In my opinion (and Rori always says) YOU didn’t do anything wrong.
    and neither did he…

    In post #32 from last post you mentioned that YOU made THE DECISION to sleep with this guy
    and He even asked what you wanted and you said
    “that I wanted to have sex with him.
    It seemed maybe a little premature,
    and yet,
    I was there and that was WHAT I WANTED.”

    “And I told him it didn’t have to “mean anything.”

    “Although on another level, I did want it to “mean something.”
    “But now I have to live by what I said, that it doesn’t “mean anything.”

    In my opinion (and Rori always says) YOU didn’t do anything wrong.
    You wanted this Tereana… you should NOT be Sad

    He didn’t do anything wrong…
    You did what you wanted to do…

    What a great opportunity to find clarity about what you are looking for in a relationship…

    Have you thought about what YOU REALLY want in YOUR LIFE?
    Do you WANT a committed, long term, loving relationship with a man?

    I believe this is such a wonderful opportunity for you
    to get REALLY clear with yourself about what YOU WANT…
    I know when I got completely clear with MYSELF about what I want
    in MY LOVE LIFE…
    and shared it with each man I met –
    and STOPPED pretending that sleeping with a man didn’t mean a lot to me…
    I started attracting men Who were looking for the same thing…
    and admired ME for standing by my standards!!
    and the ones who disappeared
    stopped wasting my time and energy!

    I have found (and I have been dating for a vERY long time) Men REALLY appreciate knowing
    what we stand for and
    where we stand as far as relationships go…

    When I started sharing with each date that…
    “I have sooo much love to share and I am looking for a long term, rest of my life relationship with a loving man.” “I know it takes time to learn about the other person and I’m willing to take the time to find out”
    And that “I don’t have sex unless I’m in a committed relationship…”
    Things REALLY changed!

    Of course it’s not Always exactly like that…
    and I’ve given in and regretted it
    Or just enjoyed the fun…
    BUT mainly it has worked really well!

  27.  #27Azure Blu on March 28, 2016 at 11:40 pm

    Indigo from last post
    Thank you for your insight, lovely Siren!

    I see what you are saying… and it has gotten easier to make sure I have some of what I want to eat on hand
    He does so LOVE to make sure I’m fed!! so sweet!

    I certainly DONT want to do anything to not seem VERY appreciative and receiving…

    I’ll make sure I mention what my food needs are softly and warmly…
    the WAY I present my needs is the KEY!!!

  28.  #28Millie on March 28, 2016 at 11:51 pm

    I really love this open door tool and will definitely be using it! I have felt so out of sorts this weekend, not grounded at all, a little lost. I had been doing really well holding my boundaries with M and felt really good about M until I had a lonely night, where the weakness overwhelmed me and I leaned forward, which led to more leaning forward….and invited anxiety into my body once more. I feel anger at myself for slipping, for falling of my path, for returning to old patterns of behavior that don’t serve me. I often find myself caught between two extremes, pushing the person away by cutting off contact and simultaneously wanting to be desperately close. I am inconsistent. I see that about myself. The only way I can cope with it now, is forgiving myself for breaking the promises I had with me, for falling off my path and quickly use the tools to get back on it. After all, he has shown he is not the man for me, and all of this is just practice. No life or death, I haven’t lost anything, we take two steps forward and one step back and it’s frustrating. I want to commit to my happiness and allowing true love to come into my life. If I really want that I have to STOP what I’m doing that is holding me back from allowing love in. I know I am strong enough to do this, I have proven that to myself already, but now I need to KEEP doing it. I already feel better acknowledging this.

    In talking about sleeping with men too soon or before they have courted you and there is discussion about the romance…I had another experience this wknd with my guy friend where boundaries were crossed. We did not have s*x, and I’m SO glad we didn’t, but it was a great reminder of the importance of boundaries on both parties. I think I have a habit of abandoning mine too quickly… and I’m noticing how bad I feel when I do. I’m suddenly seeing boundaries as a best friend, a safety net, something I can rely on that strengthens me. Alcohol can weaken boundaries and can sometimes give an unconscious permission to ignore them. I saw this clearly this weekend on my part, and that isn’t who I want to be anymore. Luckily he and I have a true friendship, so it was not damaged by a little boundary break. Instead, kind of like a rubber band, I feel like we bounced right back to the place our friendship had been before, like falling against the rubber bars of a wrestling arena and being pushed back to the center. Our relationship unharmed. He even told me afterwards that he valued our friendship so much and had so much fun with me without alcohol, that we didn’t really need it to have more fun, we just do naturally! I really appreciated that he said that and it made me feel more respect for him, that our friendship is really true. It was a good eye opening experience for me that shed light on things I did in the past and why I had felt icky about them. I had no boundaries. Boundaries are our friends, I see that now. I see how they keep us safe and keep us feeling good and can create more intimacy than crossing them does. I can apply this feeling to all of my relationship and overall choices. Without boundaries, there is a lack of integrity that made me feel like swimming without a paddle, hoping feelings and actions would be reciprocated instead of feeling strong that they would be when the time and person was right. If that makes sense… I also think it isn’t the end of the world when we don’t respect our own boundaries. A man can push back and remind us, help us get back on our feet…or he can be the type to take advantage, or he can feel turned off and want to leave…but my guy friend is really restoring some missing faith I had with men. There are some out there that won’t run away. Yes, he’s a friend and not a romantic partner, but I can still see the lesson here.

    And this makes me think of how I can restore my boundaries with M. Not for him, but for me…what are my boundaries? I have crossed in and out of them so much, I’m sure he is confused and doesn’t trust me. He tests me… to see where I’m at because I’m inconsistent. I can feel his push forward and pull away…which may or may not be directly related to my feeling strong with boundaries, or weak without them… but the ebb and flow of our contact patterns has become very apparent to me. I have to become stronger, I have to be the lighthouse, the rock, and while that may not change things with him and that’s completely ok with me, this isn’t a pattern I want in my life with any more men. I want to stop it here. Today. Right now. And if I waver again, as humans do, I will do what it takes to find them again, so I can feel safe. So I can trust myself, and so a man can trust me.

  29.  #29Azure Blu on March 29, 2016 at 2:03 am

    Millie #28
    WoW WOW WOW!!!
    I LOVE WHAt you have shared!!!

    I sooo agree… No harm done… we all go back and forth…
    Is this the ebb and flow in the “chaos” that Rori is talking about?

    and each time we learn a little bit more about our LOVELY, AMAZING and BEAUTIFUL selves!!!
    and as you so warmly and poetically wrote…
    LEaRN to TRUST ourselves even MORE!

    How lovely to read of the boxing arena analogy
    and that you pushed the boundaries…
    but you hit them and were bounced back into
    YOUR center… “Our relationship unharmed”

    I do so agree with this:
    “Boundaries are our friends, I see that now.
    I see how they keep us safe and
    keep us feeling good
    and can create more intimacy
    than crossing them does.”

    I hadn’t realized that before… Boundaries Create
    sooo nice…

    and then you wrote this so well:
    “I want to stop it here.
    Right now.
    And if I waver again,
    as humans do,
    I will do what it takes to find them again,
    so I can feel safe.
    So I can trust myself,
    and so a man can trust me.”

    Learning to trust ME… to stand up for ME…
    so I **DO** trust me…
    and as I trust myself more and more…
    so does EVERYONE…
    it enhances all my relationships.
    it has relieved the anxiety and fear
    that someone CAN take away something from me…
    I now am confident in the knowledge that
    NO ONE can TAKE anything away from ME

    Thanks to all the Rori tools and to all you Sirens
    who have helped on this journey
    and to **ME** for being brave enough to take the first step!!!

  30.  #30Azure Blu on March 29, 2016 at 2:11 am

    I just have to post what YOU wrote…
    I too want to commit to MY HApPiness and ALLOWING Love into my life!!!!

    “I want to commit to my happiness and
    allowing true love to come into my life. ”

    “If I really want that
    I have to STOP what I’m doing
    that is holding me back from allowing love in.
    (loving what it is that *IS* holding me back)
    I know I am strong enough to do this,
    I have proven that to myself already,
    but now I need to KEEP doing it.
    I already feel better acknowledging this.”

  31.  #31Indigo on March 29, 2016 at 5:32 am


    “Luckily he and I have a true friendship, so it was not damaged by a little boundary break. Instead, kind of like a rubber band, I feel like we bounced right back to the place our friendship had been before, like falling against the rubber bars of a wrestling arena and being pushed back to the center. Our relationship unharmed.”

    I am coming to see more and more that this is the advantage, nay the necessity, of creating a bond with a man first. Once you have created that bond between you, which takes time, you have so much more of a feeling of safety when little blips like this arise. They don’t derail your relationship or your feelings for one another.

    It explains the nervousness we feel when we are worried about doing something, anything, “wrong” with a new man. That bond doesn’t exist yet, and he can easily run without barely looking back. Up until then the relationship is, as my one guy friend put it, “paper thin”.

  32.  #32Mandy on March 29, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    DANG I feel good today! I could hardly wait to get here to share!!!!!

    I just put on some Mary . Blige and I was jamming and yesterday I told TallNDar\k I don’t want to have sex anymore because he’s got a FWB, lol, it felt all too good to stand up for myself, I actually didn’t feel guilty! I also told off that woman who was pressuring me to do what she wanted me to do…

    So after that I realized 11 lbs have slid off me because I’ve remained diligent in my quest to lose the rest of my sugar weight, lol…

    And I just had the best beauty sleep and I fe3el so pretty and lively like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon.

    And it has nothing to do with a man!

    I just feel pretty!

    Feels so nice…I hope some of the vibes are shared here!!!

    This is the feeling I wish for all Sirens…

    I know you can find it even if it’s really dark and lonely right now…gosh if I can you can, certainly!

    The trigger for me was Mary J playing, and sticking up for myself and just keeping on trying 🙂

    In a way this is how I’ve done what the article is stating, which is surrendering, and just choosing to let it happen and when you have truly done that I think it just falls into place. 🙂

    I’m going to see if giving myself more permission to have a different day than I’ve been having (droopy days) and see how it will work for me 🙂

    Indigo – What I shared before being sensitive…well…I remembered…can choose to pick up good vibrations too, instead of feeling closed in on. That’s pretty powerful. That song came on my computer and I just started jammin, lol. The whole theme of the song is no more drama, lol…it just clicked, I resonated with it big time.

    I’ll report back again soon! 🙂

  33.  #33Liquid Light on March 29, 2016 at 12:24 pm

    Thanks Azure 24! Wow, you ask if they are married? I would never think to do that. I just assume that they are telling the truth in their profiles. Not sure if this would set up a feeling of mistrust by asking them this? I think that’s how I may feel if I asked it?

    Yeah, the radio silence is strange to me. But then I feel like just let flow the way it is supposed to flow, that is, just the way it IS flowing….I dunno

    We haven’t talked about previous relationships. I’m leery about doing it because I don’t want to talk about my previous relationship. LOL.

  34.  #34Tereana on March 29, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    Liquid Light – on your earlier posts:

    That sounds like an awesome date!! However, I’m not sure about the lack of contact between dates. That could just be him on “guy time.” But I also understand that a man who is really interested in a woman as a person will naturally want to contact her frequently. So if he’s not, then either he feels it is too soon and doesn’t want to come off too strong, or he’s just not sure about you. Or your “imagination” could be correct, that he has another focus of some kind. It may be too early to tell.

    But it is good to pay attention to those “hunches.” Even if they are not right in the strictest sense, they are still giving us information that maybe not everything is as it should be.

    I can honestly say that I’ve been on some really fabulous dates with guys that turned out not to be good for me at all…

  35.  #35Tereana on March 29, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    Mandy – I love your post about how awesome you are feeling! I feel inspired! Thanks, Siren! Xoxo

  36.  #36Tereana on March 29, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    Poise (21) – just to clarify, I am Tereana. There is another siren on here, I believe, who posts with the screen name Tee (hi Siren!). She may have met someone online.

    But, to answer your question, the guy I had a thing with was a friend of mine I met about four years ago, through a mutual friend, whom he used to date (she is now married to another guy). I used to live in the area where he lives, but I moved across the country two years ago. He’s stayed in touch with me ever since. When I went back to visit a girl friend of mine, he offered to let me stay at his place. He did have an air bed…

  37.  #37Tereana on March 29, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    Millie – I ❤️ Your post in #28!

    I love that you wrote “I also don’t think it’s the end of the works when we don’t respect our own boundaries.”

    What a kind thought, and something I’d like to take on a bit more. I think part of my mentality is that I’m thinking it *is* the end of the world. That boundaries are so great and so good and so powerful as creating good things, that the opposite is true: that anytime I don’t stick with my own boundaries, the worst happens.

    It’s a simple, freeing thought, and especially good to me right now, because I was just kicking myself over that, specifically. Why did I do that? What pressured me? Did I pressure myself? Why didn’t I stop? Why didn’t I know that I wanted to stop?

    There I was, feeling like I was all “present” in the moment, when I was likely actually dissociating again. I hate that. It really ruins my experience.

    And I’m so happy to hear that your guy friend is supportive and patient and not leaving you, and restoring some confidence in men for you.

    By contrast, I’m having the opposite experience. My man is making me think that all men are terrible. That all guys are literally the same, and that any guy who appears to be “nice” is really just masking his unholy desires and his plan to leave you in the end, no matter what.

    I guess the right guy wouldn’t do that.

    Coaches always say, “you can’t say the wrong thing with the right guy.” (And you also can’t say the right thing with the wrong guy, incidentally.)

    Up until this past weekend, I felt sooooo comfortable with him. I felt like everything I said was magic, and he was just perfect, attentive to my needs, asking what I wanted, not pushing too far. He even offered to “let” me stop. But even that can be a tactic. (Seriously, I’ve heard.) if someone really wants something, they can say “you don’t have to.” And suddenly the other person feels like they don’t have to, so they relax, and suddenly….they *want* to.

    And this is clearly at least part of what happened to me, whether it was intentional on his part, but I really think it was. I was acting impervious to him, but he was clearly ampimg up his desires and communicating them.

    So I see him now as the kind of guy who might “test” to see how far you will go. If you resist him, then you are ok. But if you give in, release to your own desires, even, then he will like it for a moment, and then he will reject you out of hand. Which he did.

    Pre-sex, I could have said almost anything to him and it would have been fine. But post-sex, he was no longer the right man, and I was (am apparently) no longer someone he respects or is interested in respecting.

    And I have my own method of coping. I see through his actions, deeper than even he does, I think. And I mentally give him the choice: be like your father and walk away, or don’t. And if he wants to keep walking, then fine, let him walk. If that’s how he wants to be, then he’s not right for me anyway. This isn’t because of me. But if he walks, then he is helping me.

  38.  #38Millie on March 29, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    Azure, Indigo, and Tereana–

    I’m so glad my post resonated with you!! I love sharing my feelings, experiences, up and downs with this lovely community! 🙂

    Tereana– I love how you flipped the statement: “You can’t say the wrong thing to the right man” into “You can’t say the right thing to the wrong man.” That is such an interesting flip and for me feels like taking the “work” we often feel we need to do with a man away. We can be “right” by being true to ourselves and he may not see it, want it, or feel anything from it. I think I’m learning that is the beauty of relationships. The woman expressing and the man meeting her and it continues moving. As much as we hope every man would rise to meet our feelings and expressions, not every man will and that’s what makes the men that do special and right for us.

  39.  #39Millie on March 29, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    One thing my coach brought up to me that sounds so simple is that the quickest way to attract the love we want into our lives is to get happy. Be the highest version of ourselves. I was thinking that one new thought pattern I want to have is taking the simplest route to happiness. Embracing simplicity. When I feel bad, I want to ask myself what would make me feel happier right now? The smallest thing…If I’m at home and upset, maybe it is a simple thing of making a cup of tea that would take that negative feeling up just a baby step, and then once I did that then take another little step, oh maybe listening to my favorite song right now would feel good. And go up from there. I think sometimes I get too caught up in the distance of what would make me happy (a relationship) and feeling so far from it makes happiness unattainable at times. In reality it is baby steps as many coaches have said including Rori. I want to take the simplest route now. If I don’t like where I’m standing, move. I think making small decisions like this will help me and build more trust in myself to be able to get out of negative soup. When M or some other guy texts me and I start to feel thoughts flood my brain, I want to train myself to ask what is the simplest answer here? The shortest path from A to B. Letting go of all of the thoughts surrounding a situation that complicate it beyond necessary. I want to think as little as possible, take things day by day, moment by moment, navigating my happiness in each moment. That’s my goal. Simplicity.

  40.  #40MissStix on March 29, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    You can take the “get happy” concept and expand on that and “find meaning”. Find purpose and fulfillment. Happiness is amazing. Yet… I read something that said “happiness can not be persued, it must ensue.”
    And there is something very magnetic about a fulfilled person.

  41.  #41Tereana on March 29, 2016 at 9:54 pm


    As I am going through this experience, I am letting my thoughts and feelings change and shift as they will. Some moments I feel strong and powerful. Other times I feel weak and victimized.

    In the past, I might have interrupted my thoughts and sought to contact him, to “tell” him what I was thinking. Well, I sort of did that at first. I did a “brain dump” on him when he first shut down. Trying to convince him otherwise. Ha! Yeah, right.

    Now I see that that was pointless. But initially, I was so shocked, and it seemed so incongruous with everything else he has literally ever said to me, that I responded with trying to revive the conversation. No dice. [but I’m guessing he was in the mood to walk away anyway. Maybe he was just waiting for an excuse.]

    So now I have stopped writing. And I feel more peace. I hold off trying to communicate anything, because I know that what I think or feel moment to moment may change drastically. But anything I put in a text or email will exist, frozen in time. It will not be dynamic, and it could be very damaging. Or at least stilted.

    But letting this process happen allows me to really focus on ME. Even if the thoughts include him, I am really thinking about me – what was I thinking/feeling when xyz happened? How do I feel right now? What were my motivations? What does this mean for me now, and what can I do differently now or in the future?

    It’s a good place to be. I am learning a lot, and I am not expecting to hear from him, and not even sure if I want to. I move through judgment, to anger, to rage, and finally peace. I go through the process again, and learn more.

    There is a thing about sex. But I will share that another time. Right now I am too sleepy.

    Good night, Siren island…

  42.  #42Indigo on March 29, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    Millie 39,

    Yes! Small acts of taking care of yourself or moving from unhappiness to happiness.

    I remember during the worst of the traumatic times during my time with D, when I’d be sobbing in my office or feeling paralysed and unable to move or work and thinking I was going to die right there on that chair, I remember somehow having the small thought of going and making myself a perfect, milky cup of rooibos tea (if you have it in the USA I highly recommend it for its calming and soothing properties).

    Or I somehow managed to get up out of my chair and move my feet out of the door and out into the sunshine. Or it would be as simple as going, “no, I don’t need to think that.”

    Small simple acts of love and happiness can turn your whole day around, and by extension your whole life.

  43.  #43Indigo on March 30, 2016 at 3:34 am


    Re: your situation.

    Have you ever had someone that you did not feel deeply for, that you liked but were not overly attached to or invested in, come at you all emotional? Asking things from you, expecting things from you, trying to convince you that the experiences you’ve had together or your fledgling “relationship” means more to you than it actually does? Trying to convince you that it should mean as much to you as it does to them?

    I have, and it’s a yucky feeling. I am emotionally warm and expressive, and a loyal and relationship-oriented person, and even I will shut down when another person assumes a closeness with me that I do not feel. I’ve realised, hard as that is for me to come to grips with and wrap my head around, that that is what it is like for men. Once I feel safe and comfortable enough with a person, I will give the “go ahead” to a person through my actions and the things I say, and then they have permission to come into a much closer emotional space with me. I’ll give more, am willing to discuss more, am more present etc.

    But I have had friends, and guys I have dated, try to push their way into this space, which is actually quite sacred. It’s a very vulnerable place, and I have to be ready and willing. Someone gains access to this place by being patient and self-contained, and making me feel safe and connected, and quite frankly just with time as our bond grows. This is the only place where I am willing to negotiate on wants, needs, boundaries, theirs and mine, and co-create a relationship. When someone tries to push their way in, I refuse their requests, and pull back from them.

    Now of course, I have been the one doing this too at past times in my life, and this is also how I know that it doesn’t work. It is how human beings are.

    I’m not trying to blame you or in any way pass judgment on you by saying this, but it is similar to what I said to Mandy a few posts ago… It behooves us to hold back with men. To take responsibility for any leaning forward or boundary bending that we might do in the beginning, and not to attempt to try and have these emotional discussions with men until we have the safety to do so.

    I am only saying this to try and help you, and because I am still learning this too. You are SO much more empowered in relationships when you hold back for a

  44.  #44Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 5:51 am

    So the thing about sex….

    The way I understand it, normally when people have sex, they feel connected to the other person MORE after the fact, and maybe even like them more.

    However, when I have sex – and it doesn’t even have to be completely we. It can just be sexy “fooling around” or quasi-sex or almost sex, or sometimes just sleeping next to someone at night with no touching at all (like Rori says, just spending the night with someone is equivalent to sex, relationship-wise). Any and am of those things consistently lead me to like the person LESS. They cause me to feel disconnected, unsafe, insecure and more alone than I was before.

    Initially, I might feel good. But within a few hours, I begin to feel a deep hatred and disgust of the guy, no matter how I felt about him before, or how he feels about me or treats me. I will start to feel annoyed by him. I will start to criticize him and express displeasure. Pretty soon, there is no way he can make me happy.

    And then, soon after that, either I will leave him, or he will give up and leave me.

    It’s quite possible that this is a big part of what was active in my most recent experience.

    I really wanted it to be different. This time, just once, I wanted to be able to open up to sex with someone I trusted, who I believed cared about me and loved me.

    And I have this idea that, if I were married to someone, this wouldn’t happen. Or that if it did, they guy wouldn’t leave because we would be married. But actually, that’s probably not true. Probably all the same things would happen, only it would be worse because we would be stuck with each other, and then we might have to go through a divorce.

    So yeah. I’ve been trying to figure this out for years. I don’t know what’s wrong or why it happens. But it is consistent – every single time.

    (Except last year, the guy I went out with, it wasn’t so bad. Or maybe he could just put up with more. Or maybe he couldn’t and that’s why he left and didn’t come back. Didn’t ask for more with me. Oh heck, I don’t know…)

    Anyway, this is my problem. It’s independent of this one guy. And it makes me truly unsure whether he is truly a bad guy, or I am just hating on him for the simple reason that he even just wanted to have sex with me, never mind the actual sex.

    This is one for my therapist for sure. But I wanted to stare it here, too. In case anyone has had similar experiences or has any words of wisdom I haven’t thought of yet.

    Right now, I am just trying to hold onto myself through this…

  45.  #45BeLoved on March 30, 2016 at 6:42 am

    Tereana – I’m wondering if you are projecting a self-hatred and disgust on to the men? If it is really yourself that you like less and maybe something to work out about your unconscious feelings about sex?

  46.  #46Victoria on March 30, 2016 at 6:48 am

    From my experience, s. would only make me like the other person more in the context of a developing romantic relationship, when we are in love with each other. I have not done it with someone I was being just friends with, but I have heard from people who have, that in fact, more often than not, it complicates things and possibly ends the friendship. When it is art-for-art’s sake, mostly it does not influence my opinion about the other person, except that is the art was really talent-less, I would then get to really dislike the person and somewhat diskike myself for putting myself through that. Just my two cents.

  47.  #47Victoria on March 30, 2016 at 6:59 am

    Also, I would like to share a personal story here. Many years ago, I found myself in the middle of an undefined relationship, with someone very attractive, who was wrong for me for very clear reasons. Still, the chemistry was off the charts, and I decided to take a chance, despite my better judgement and had quasi-art with him. The first few hours after that, I was euphoric, I thought it was an amazing experience, which was so worth it, in itself, irrespective of all the circumstances around it. Then, when I did not hear from him in the next couple of weeks (and I bet he had even a better time than me!) I got to see the situation very differently, and ended up beating myself over it. I am telling you this because I think it is quite a normal experience.

  48.  #48Indigo on March 30, 2016 at 11:27 am

    Tereana 44,

    I think Beloved is onto something with the self-hatred. Anything we feel towards others is really a reflection of something going on inside ourselves, we just have to find out what it is.

    I am also not really surprised you feel this way. Having had so many negative experiences where the man has “ended up leaving” in your words you have reinforced this as a terrible and inevitable fact in your mind. When the truth is actually far kinder and more nuanced than that.

    First of all, most men are not destined to stay. All but one relationship is supposed to end eventually. So if the relationship is not right, one person will end up leaving. This does not need to be a terrible thing or “abandonment”. We are adults now and don’t need to think of it in these terms. Also, I know I keep saying this, but in order to change these experiences so that you reinforce positive emotional energy going forward, you need to build emotional safety with a man first. Up until then you are rolling the dice with your emotions.

  49.  #49Liquid Light on March 30, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    Tereana, Thanks for your feedback. That makes a lot of sense. I’m going to see how it goes and just notice if this is something to be concerned about or not. As you say, I think time will tell.

    We’ve got another date lined up for this weekend. 🙂 Another thing I like about him is that he comes up with awesome dates that he plans ahead of time.

    I’m still not feeling that intense level of physical attraction. But maybe that’s a good thing. It hasn’t really served me well in the past since none of those relationships worked out obviously. On the positive side, I really like who he is as a person, he’s really a nice good man. He’s got a lot of friends and is close to his family. I really like that he seems to have healthy relationships. After my last relationship, that’s really important to me. I thought my ex had a lot of healthy relationships in his life but in fact, a lot of people in his life didn’t really like him that much. They seemed to tolerate him at best. LOL.

    He’s also really easy to talk to, and we can connect really naturally. There’s an ease to our conversation that I really like.

  50.  #50Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    Indigo, I like that (42) 🙂

  51.  #51Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    Indigo – I like what you are saying in 43, too. But it seems like you are trying to tell me that I should have “held back.” Or “held out,” or some such. And I get that. But it’s only in the small picture that it looks like I rushed.

    If I can pull back the lens for you a bit, let’s remember that I’ve known this guy for four years, and according to him, he’s liked me all that time. He even took me to dinner around then, after which I felt “meh,” and like I wasn’t really attracted, and I didn’t go out with him again right away. We remained friends, and he was always “driving” the relationship. I almost never reached out to him. He always came to me.

    He did things for me like drive me places. Or in fact, when I moved, he even paid to have some boxes of my things shipped across country. I was going to pay him back, but eventually he said to forget about that.

    I’ve never assumed that I “owed” him anything. I always felt that if he wanted to give to me, he would, and I would feel grateful and express my gratitude, and that would be that.

    It was over a year and a half ago that we kissed for the first time. We were walking on the beach, and it was awkward and he was nervous. If I had to go by that kiss, I would have never done anything with him, because it was quite bad. Lol

    Long story short, he literally did everything you just described. He took his time. I stayed where I was, did my thing, and was dating other men. I didn’t even consider him as a prospect. It was only after years of him being present and supposedly attentive that I started coming around and having feelings of my own. I surprised myself by finding him attractive, where I didn’t at first, and he also doesn’t fit my usual “type.” And even then, I never pushed or moved quickly to make anything happen. But I gave him subtle signs, and I was always happy when he called.

    The weekend when I was there, he took me on a legit dinner date the first night. I didn’t sleep with him then. He cooked for me and gave me rides. I didn’t sleep with him then. I kissed him one night (or let him kiss me), and it was MUCH better than the first time (almost 2 years ago !). I didn’t sleep with him then.

    It was the next night. We kissed some more. We went a bit further. Then he basically handed me my way out. He said if we stopped there, he would be perfectly happy. Voila. But by then it was even too late for me. I was too far gone, as in, too turned on, too happy, too relaxed, too comfortable. I didn’t want to stop, or at least my body didn’t. So I made the conscious (I thought) choice to have dex with him. He happily and enthusiastically obliged. And in the morning he could not stop talking about how wonderful it was.

    In all of this, my impression was that he was way more emotionally invested in any relationship we had than I was. It seemed as if he cared a lot more than I did, and was more affected by it. He is a sensitive, emotional man by nature.

    And also on this trip (and in previous video chat conversations, of which we’ve had a lot – always at his instigation), he opened up about his family, about himself, about his feelings for me. I could never have even kissed him if he hadn’t. In fact, before he got honest with me, he tried to smuggle, but it didn’t feel right. I didn’t want him touching me. But that changed.

    Maybe it wasn’t a “tactic” on his part.

    Maybe both of us were just following our good feelings.

    But there really is this horrible, awful, poisonous reality for me, where I begin to hate my partners at the same time that I am becoming physically close to them. It is only evident after the fact, when I start emotionally biting their heads off. I criticize them. I push them away even as I am trying to hold onto them tightly. It is a toxic mix, and no relationship I have ever had has survived the point where sex entered in. I feel cursed. I feel like a black widow spider. I lure my mates in with promises of sex, and then promptly kill them right after (not literally, mind you. I am talking in metaphor here…just to be clear….)

    So that was really the switch. Can I honestly assume that if I waited another 10 years, 2 years, or 2 months, that it would have been any different? I highly doubt it. Because whatever it is that makes me act this way is still active. And I imagine that it’s trying to protect me. But all it really does is keep me alone.

    And that’s why I’m still here. Trying to figure this all out. Hoping for the day when this THING – whatever it is – will not destroy the relationships I care most about


  52.  #52Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    *snuggle not smuggle. Lol

    (And sex not dex…I’m sure you figured that out ; )

  53.  #53Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    Azure Blu – I really want to thank you for your kind and thoughtful post in #26. I really appreciate it.

    And for your #29 – yay!

  54.  #54Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    Indigo – just so you know, your first paragraph in #43 describes pretty accurately his approach to me. Not fast, though. It was a slow thing. Which is what eventually turned ME around from not feeling attracted to him initially.

    Now I am regretting my change of feeling, I regret letting him get so close to me – INSIDE me. Literally. I wish I never had.

    And I feel like I got run over by a truck

  55.  #55Tereana on March 30, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    Victoria – thank you so much for sharing your experience. I really appreciate it 🙂

    There is a theme I am noticing in some of the feedback to me. It seems as if most or many of you are assuming that I did not have “emotional safety” with this man. I am wondering, is this you ladies projecting your own past experience onto my current situation? Or is it the case that I actually did not have emotional safety with him?

    Because me, when I’m telling the story, I want to say that I did feel emotional safety – a great deal of it – and that is the ONLY reason I decided to sleep with him. The only one or the primary one.

    But it seems, in retrospect, that I did not. That the safety was false, or that it was never there to begin with. Which makes me wonder, do I even know what “emotional safety” feels like?

    I’m not sure that I do. I probably wouldn’t know it if it hit me in the face

  56.  #56Posie on March 30, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    Tereana – sorry to have confused you with Tee! Makes much more sense now. 🙂

    Millie- your posts feel really honest and I’m inspired by your latest reflections!

    I hit my own road bump today. Had been doing well letting go of my imaginary work companion peacefully. We have both been on vacation and hadn’t seen each other for about a month. A few emails. Nothing that stirred up that weight of longing that makes me hope for more. I liked that. Felt safe.

    Back at work this week.

    Today he asked me to come for a coffee break in his office. I went, too tempting an offer to resist! And we chatted and laughed and shared stories. So much in common. He confided in me on some things and I in him.

    I left with that floating free fall feeling. Smiling and giggling and daydreaming the the hallways. Trying to snap myself out of it and unable too.

    I don’t really know what to do. I know this isn’t going to go anywhere. We never talk about it, never risk crossing that line with each other. He is never unkind or deceitful. He is the opposite of those things.

    I can’t really bring it up at all. He isn’t and won’t. And he is my friend. And I respect and admire him professionally.

    But being close to him at all is hard. I feel all those dreadful butterflies and my heart swims in it, dreamy daydreams, and those feelings feel so uncomfortably out of my control. I want so badly to tell him. To break all that tension. Oh Eff. He already knows. I’ve given all the hints I can and certainly made myself vulnerable.

    So what is there to say? There’s nothing there to say or do.

    Can I just decide not to talk to him any more for a while, so I can get a grip of myself? I wouldn’t tell him that, of course. I’d just make soft distance somehow. That would probably look weird to him. I risk any friendship at all. Or professional relationship. What a pickle I’ve gotten myself in.

  57.  #57Azure Blu on March 30, 2016 at 7:42 pm

    this to me right now
    feels profound
    YOU said:
    “If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.”
    If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.

  58.  #58Azure Blu on March 30, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    Miss Stix
    “And there is something very magnetic about a fulfilled person.”
    and for me that comes from

  59.  #59Azure Blu on March 30, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    Liquid Light #49
    Ahhhh… I’m so enjoying your baby stepping
    through your CDing
    I love what you’re saying here…
    “Another thing I like about him is that he comes up with awesome dates that he plans ahead of time.”

    What we like about them
    what we’re receiving
    our hearts open
    it’s early in the relationship
    let it flow
    we find out who they are
    who we are with them
    how we feel with them
    little by little
    opening of a
    beautiful flower…
    All the time
    continue to fill our lives with other CDs
    and all the things that make us happy

  60.  #60BeLoved on March 30, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    f*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck
    i took over and set up the date and am catching myself in the act of trying to impress this guy instead of letting him impress me.
    I don’t know how to get back to center and feeling in my power now. It’s done.
    Yuck yuck yuck I feel so f*cking YUCK right now.

  61.  #61BeLoved on March 30, 2016 at 9:10 pm

    I did an EFT tap on “getting out of the way of miracles” and finished getting dressed. Chatted with a friend, and then he called, and said hey, I don’t want you driving all the way down here, where are you?
    I am still at home, literally about to walk out the door, and I BIT MY TONGUE and resisted the urge to argue that no I really wanted to go out, it was something I wanted to really do, and said honestly, I felt weird about going out. So he asked if I wanted him to come to me??
    Well, yes, yes I do thankyouverymuch.
    He’s on his way and I feel superbetter.

  62.  #62Millie on March 30, 2016 at 11:31 pm

    Posie– thank you!! I love my honest self and feel so much stronger when I am honest and true 🙂 What I would like to say to your situation is so what? So what if you’ve been vulnerable and made your affections known through flirting and accepting his invitations? So what? You are you and have been in your truest feminine energy or so it seems. Let him enjoy it!!! Keep being the vulnerable and flirty you and see who else shows up!! So what if this man is content with friendship and not moving things past the wonderfulness that they are today. No doubt he enjoys you!!! Let him and enjoy yourself too!!! That’s what I say!!!

    Azure– thank you so much!! I feel so much stronger today and totally agree that that statement holds so much power. We choose where we are! After all this chaos going on with M, today I had this gut feeling to be honest with him. I actually admitted to him that I felt jealous and that I could not visit him (we talked about it) while there was another woman in the picture. The thought of that made me feel SO icky and he said even if he had a girlfriend, that I would still be welcome to visit!!! ICK!!!!!! I felt my only way out of this was to be completely honest. Games have no power over honesty and there would be no way he could have me… no play to be made. A lot of people would say that I gave my power up admitting feelings like that…but I say I became more powerful and I feel so!!! To allow my honesty to guide me to a boundary I needed to feel and have…. I love my boundaries and feel glad inviting them in again! I love saying No to what I do not want!!! Who cares what he thinks… I am safe 🙂 And with the right man, the outcome of this conversation would have been completely different. 🙂

  63.  #63Victoria on March 31, 2016 at 12:14 am

    @ Tereana 55,
    Yes, you are right that it sounds like you were missing on the emotional safety front, and it is partly because when we tell stories here, they sound as if they are happening faster than in real life.
    I have been thinking what makes emotional safety in my case. If you have read EMK, he suggests to have a conversation with the man saying something like “I only have s. with a boyfriend/in a committed relationship”. To me, this sounds like a very strange conversation, like I am “asking” for his commitment, and I would be very uncomfortable to do that. At the same time, thinking about real relationships, in each of mine, s. happened only after “I love you”s were spoken, and not vice versa. As for hook ups, they ended being just that, and sometime tasted bad afterwards (except in the cases when I was very clear in my mind that it was just s.). But I can totally see that the guy was consciously or not driving you to belive your relationship was intensifying… and I would have probably acted impulsively, like you did.
    Still, I think it is not s. that triggers the negative emotions in you, but your expectation that it will help crystalize your relationship to a higher ground. I guess you need to do some more thinking/feeling as to what exactly is happening to you, or, like Rori says “why am I here”.

  64.  #64Tereana on March 31, 2016 at 5:16 am

    I want guys to be different. I want all guys to be different. Or I imagine one magical man, one mythical beast. One unicorn who can both want me in a sexual way and make me feel elevated through that – glorified and dignified so that I feel like a BETTER human being. More elated, more excited about life, more beautiful. More words than I can even think of.

    But that’s not what happens.

    All men are the same. Even the “good ones.” They want me to be naked and not wear clothes. They want to control me. They want to “do things” to me. They don’t ask me what I want. They don’t ask how I’m doing. They don’t care how I feel.

    At the end of the day – no matter how much time they have spent “wooing” me or making overtures, it all turns out to be a pretext for nothing except sex.

    I feel disgusted. Lied to. Manipulated. I HATE THEM.

    And yes, I know hate is a strong word. I am venting it here, because if I don’t, I might take it somewhere else. I Hate this man. I hate what he has done. I hate him for wanting me sexually. I hate him for having sex with me. I hate him even more for leaving in the end. He didn’t treat it like nothing. But he has treated ME like nothing. Like after that, I am only sex and nothing else.

    Yes, I know that in part, that is how sex works.

    And I HATE it. I hate it I hate I hate it.

    I hate sex. I hate men. I hate men for having sex, for wanting sex, and for treating me, and all women like dirt. Men are disgusting. Men are horrible. They are all the worst and there is no single good man alive. If he’s a good man, and he meets me, trust me – he’ll be an awful person the minute he even tries to have sex with me.

    I should just give up and be a nun or something

    I don’t know if I can deal with this

  65.  #65Tereana on March 31, 2016 at 5:29 am

    BeLoved: I felt super smiley reading your post 61 & 62 : D

    Well, not 61, exactly. I wanted to give you a hug. But then that made 62 that much smilier 🙂

  66.  #66Indigo on March 31, 2016 at 5:36 am

    Tereana 64,

    “I imagine one magical man, one mythical beast. One unicorn who can both want me in a sexual way and make me feel elevated through that – glorified and dignified so that I feel like a BETTER human being. More elated, more excited about life, more beautiful. More words than I can even think of.”

    I am with a man like that. He actually put the brakes on having sex with me on more than one occasion, whilst at the same time making me feel very desired, because he wanted us both to feel sure and emotionally ready. His exact words to me were that he wanted to wait “Because I want you to know that I’m not going anywhere.” I thought I was going to expire from bliss when he said that.

    It’s early days still. But he makes me feel like he’s interested in my heart more than anything else. There are men like this. Not a lot. This guy I am with now is incredibly unusual relative to most of the guys I’ve been with, which is why I appreciate him. But I think if your heart is pointing in that direction, if you are open to receiving him and to being treated this way, you will find him. There are numerous sirens here in the siren community who have found their prince 🙂

  67.  #67Tereana on March 31, 2016 at 5:54 am

    I am having two very conflicting impulses here, I am noticing. On the one hand, I want to be very quick to reject this man. Since he agreed to have sex with me, I now view him as a predator and a threat (yes, I don’t care that it was “my idea.” I still see him as the aggressor. Because it was really his idea. I was going along with his plans of what he wanted. Only thinking that they were my own ideas. They were not. He just got me so turned on that in that moment, I really didn’t have other ideas.)

    The thug about EMK, having that discussion – it’s not unlike what Rori suggests. But the thing is, if you are going to have that discussion, you need to have it when you are both upright, standing or sitting vertically, sober, and fully clothed.

    At the time when we had that discussion, we were already horizontal, making out, very turned on, and partially clothed. I was “sober,” and he doesn’t drink. But being turned on is what led me to say yes. Even though I was also clear that I didn’t want to “just hook up” with him.

    But in actual fact, that is what we did.

    I am pissed. I am sooooo angry. And I may be more angry at myself than him. But it doesn’t matter. I am angry. Which means I can’t really talk to him.

    So back to the conflict – I want to reject him, because of this anger. But maybe this feeling also blinds me to the reality.

    Maybe he *didn’t* really “walk away.” Maybe he didn’t shut down completely. Maybe, like he said, he was just stepping back and taking a break. Maybe it’s not really “over.” Maybe I am panicking because I am afraid that it is “over,” and if I reject him, in my mind or otherwise, I can ensure that it is over, thereby allaying my fears into reality.

    My therapist asked me a useful question: “How do you know that it’s over?” She asked.

    The truth is, I don’t. I *feel* that that is what he was trying to say. That doesn’t mean it’s actually what he said. My fears might have filled in the blanks.

    The other thing she’s says in the past that’s useful is “just because you feel it, doesn’t mean it’s true.” I often believe my fear-based feelings and the thoughts that go with them as “true.” But the reality might be something else.

    The open the doors tool might be useful here also.

    There could be a lot here I really don’t know.

    I guess I feel grateful that my only response was to try and further the relationship. Even if that wa misguided, it’s better than if I were to say to him now, “I don’t want a relationship.” Which is what I’m feeling like saying, but I think it might be the opposite of true.

    In not sure I can trust the anger. I’m not sure I should trust the hate.

    I am looking for the place I can trust

  68.  #68Victoria on March 31, 2016 at 6:16 am

    It is great that you are processing these emotions. This is the right place, and you are very welcome to speak up all your fears, anger, and pain.
    I think you correctly say that you were intoxicated when you made that choice, not from alchohol, but the endorphins have pretty much the same effect on us. It happens to all of us. Sweet, dear Tereana.
    I wonder whether men go through that much agony when they face rejection, and would I care enough to care next time a reject a man…

  69.  #69Azure Blu on March 31, 2016 at 6:27 am

    Millie #62
    Wow!!! Practicing being Vulnerable and authentic with M!!!

    I have found–Vulnerability is just like boundaries…
    It fosters emotional closeness to a man
    AND to myself!!
    It causes me to fall in love with **ME**
    even more…
    Because I am taking exquisite care of**ME**
    and I feel safety
    and I trust myself even more!!

  70.  #70Azure Blu on March 31, 2016 at 6:37 am

    (((Beloved))) #61 & 62
    I’m so impressed! to see an feel that you were in a masculine mode with this CD
    and then to STOP and lean back!!!

  71.  #71Indigo on March 31, 2016 at 6:40 am

    Victoria 69,

    I think they do go through the same agony when they are attached to the woman in question, in fact I think their pain might be more intense. But it takes longer for them to get attached – they don’t bond through sex in the same way we do, so they can have sex with a woman they do not love and walk away from her quite easily afterwards. Also they are renowned compartmentalisers – they can easily put it all in another box and get on with work and other parts of their lives. Whereas for us it’s all mingled together, which is why they “seem” to have an easier time getting over break-ups, but actually they just work differently from us. I don’t think their emotions are any less intense than ours.

  72.  #72Azure Blu on March 31, 2016 at 6:59 am

    I can certainly understand your utter confusion and disbelief at how this man reacted after all the wonderful talking and all the time he has been in contact with you and persuing YOU…

    Spirit reacted this same way after we had s*x
    and HE was the one that was running after me and pushed and pushed for s*x…
    We had agreed to exclusivity a week or so before and
    He completely disappeared for like 3-4 days after we had s*x…
    it was unnerving!!!
    I was so confused and wondering “WHAT the f**ck!!”
    what did *I* do?
    What did I say?
    Was it over?
    Looking back (that was a year ago)
    He wasn’t ready for exclusivity OR s*x.
    of course we broke up off and on after that…
    Until I got more clear with Myself and with Him about what *I* wanted.

    I’m not saying that’s whats going on with your guy

    But I certainly DO understand your being upset….

    I hope this doesnt’ seem too nosy but
    I’m wondering if you have had a traumatic experience with s*x when you were younger?
    or is it what most of us here feel, and through the Rori tools
    are seeking relief from
    ***extreme anxiety with emotional intimacy?***

    because of what you said in post #51
    “But there really is this horrible, awful, poisonous reality for me, where I begin to hate my partners at the same time that I am becoming physically close to them. It is only evident after the fact, when I start emotionally biting their heads off. I criticize them. I push them away even as I am trying to hold onto them tightly. It is a toxic mix, and no relationship I have ever had has survived the point where sex entered in.”

  73.  #73BeLoved on March 31, 2016 at 8:37 am

    Oh, Tereana and Azure ! It turned out to be a precious, sweet, delicious evening of yumliciousness 🙂

  74.  #74Posie on March 31, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Millie 62, I really appreciate your thoughts. I want so badly to be able to just enjoy what it is. At the same time it occupies more of my attention than I’m comfortable with for a relationship that just doesn’t seem possible due to our work relationship and age difference. I don’t seem to be able to turn off those attraction feelings though. Heart versus logic, right?

    Today was hard. It really is like they can sense you turning away and then come closer.

    He had a media release for a big piece of work he’s proud of. I watched in on him talking to the reporters with a bunch of colleagues. He saw me. I was melting.

    And then he phoned my desk when it was all done. He NEVER phones. He was charming and laughing and when I asked playfully why he was bothering me he told me it wasn’t for any reason, just that he noticed me at his press release. I hung up.

    Then, out of the blue, we bump into eachother on my way out. I say goodnight and keep walking and he keeps asking me questions while I have my back to him and am walking away trying to escape. Finally I turned around and went back to him and he asked me about all kinds of things going on in my life.

    He was sweet and sincere. Probably just being friendly.

    I was melting and trying not to show it.

    I feel stupid for not being able to keep my feelings under control. I hate that space where I want to stop daydreaming about him and I don’t want to all at the same time.

  75.  #75sophie on March 31, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    I completely bailed out of the blog for so long. I haven’t even checked in secretly. This is the first time I’ve looked in months and you’re all still here – being lovely. Funny it feels quite warm and gentle reading. I have felt completely and totally lost in my life. And I haven’t shared here. I haven’t been writing. I have, to a certain extent, become more and more isolated. And that’s why I bailed out. Because I feel ashamed that I don’t seem to ‘heal’ and I don’t feel in any kind of emotional place to be able to even consider meeting a man, and I don’t want to be debbie downer person, and I don’t know how I got so low, and feeling so unsparkly. And I kept (keep) trying to get some positive momentum going again and thus far it just aint happening.

    But to write on here at least feels tender. And tender feels better than panicky and paranoid. And maybe I can be a quiet and tentative voice. And maybe I’ll remember some of the good feeling stuff about me. And maybe I’ll find some inspiration.

    I’d love to feel some inspiration.

    I have felt consistently unhappy in whatever work that I do. This seems to be my main thing but must also be linked to feeling fear and finding it difficult to manage often harsh working environments. I have absolutely no idea what is the right work for me. I need a shift. I can’t keep going from work to work feeling the same old unhappy, fearful, freaked out stuff.

  76.  #76Millie on March 31, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    Azure– yes I like being vulnerable and honest much better than pretending “I’m ok” even if it is giving up power. He knows how I feel, he probably thinks he “has” me and I’m not a challenge… Today I feel kind of sad about it…I’m tired though, of this roller coaster and I’m seriously considering blocking his number because I don’t think any good is going to come out of this interaction. He isn’t going to turn around…. there’s too much damage. Part of me wants to know when and if he contacts me again, I don’t want to let go of being curious, but I just don’t feel like this is good for me. I like hearing from him but at the same time I don’t feel good, he is short, cold, and mainly sexual. I don’t want to be a woman that a man only wants for s*x. I feel hurt by that… This situation makes me feel so sad I think it’s best to not have him in my life at all. What do you ladies think?

  77.  #77BeLoved on March 31, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    sophie – the blog is for riffing ALL feelings, sparkly and otherwise. It takes as long as it takes, and if you’re not in a space to be dating there is nothing wrong with that! It’s so good to hear your tender voice here again!

  78.  #78BeLoved on March 31, 2016 at 6:32 pm

    aaaaaand now I get to practice more tools!!!
    LankyCD asked me to brunch on Friday, but I had to work. My job changed, and so it turns out I have the day off, and I let him know within a few hours of chatting about it, he was like…yay! We can do that! I asked what time and where and ….nothing. I got asked to come in to pick up a different job and said no because I tentatively had ‘brunch’ scheduled, but 7 hours later no response. He works a union job so I know for sure he’s had a break so idk but I am working through the feelings and asking, what can I be doing for me and MY life right now?

    I have made other plans and will tell him so when I hear from him again. I feel bummed. I feel sadness, to feel so much closeness and then feel it drop away.

    I feel resolved to focus on catching up on homework, packing, more hunting for a new place, some EFT or something since I’m not really up for exercise at the moment. Taking care of me. I choose to feel happy and satisfied, and love and bless and appreciate the delicious, yummy time I DID get to experience last night. I love, love, love LOVE myself.

  79.  #79Posie on March 31, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    Millie, I think telling him you were jealous was a brave and honest and sincere thing to do. It seemed like both of you were actually feeling that way and out of the two of you, you had the self awareness to just be open about it. You called the game. Sort like saying, “hey, I’m not playing this way anymore. This way sucks for me. I’d rather just be honest. What do you think.” Super strong and powerful decision on your part it seems. Then he told you what he thought.

    You seem to be coming to your own conclusions about him and whether or not he’s capable of giving you what you want. You’ve said a lot of really unbelievably together things in the last few days. So giving you advice doesn’t seem to make sense. The only thing I could offer is encouragement to trust your intuition. Listen to your voices carefully. And then move in the direction that, overall, feels (or will feel) best to you. Big hugs. This is quite a journey!

  80.  #80Tereana on March 31, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    I am still moving through so many emotional states and levels of knowing, acknowledging, and learning. I suppose I can’t say it was a total mistake. Maybe nothing is ever really a “mistake.” But I’m learning a lot, no matter what.

    Every morning I wake up and it’s a new feeling, a new thought, a new way of being, with and in myself.

    Today I talked to a friend of mine who “gets” lots of things. I expressed what I thought was regret at sleeping with this guy and feeling like I ruined a perfectly good friendship. “It takes two to ruin a relationship,” she said.

    And she’s RIGHT. I loved that

    I am so good at blaming myself. Especially when he’s trying to blame me, too. But even if it makes me feel bad that he did it, *I* am not the one who shut down and walked away at a crucial moment. That was his choice. That was what he did.

    And all of this is really just information to me. The sex, what it was, what it felt like. Things he said or didn’t say. The way I felt around him, or didn’t feel. And finally his actions and how they impact me. All of this I get to evaluate in my own silence, and wonder – is he worth it?

    I’m getting ready to open up my online dating account again. I’m ready to meet more guys now. I am ready to CD and see how I can use this new information. Just after I get through this show.

    Like Millie, and/or whoever else said, I feel like committing to MY happiness. Doing little and big things to make ME happy.

    That’s how I get through this…

  81.  #81Millie on March 31, 2016 at 10:12 pm

    Posie– What you wrote to me feels so wonderful.. I want to bathe in it. Thank you so much! Yes I want to work on trusting my intuition more and more! On your situation, I totally understand having to keep the boundaries at work and feeling like you enjoy melting so much but have to keep it in check because of the environment and also the fact you aren’t dating. It sounds like he is intrigued by you…and why wouldn’t he be!! You sound like you are oozing with feminine energy around him! It’s hard to let ourselves enjoy attraction without fear…of what may happen. Sounds like keep doing what you are doing! Hold the space, but being juicy, feminine, and mysterious!

    Tereana– I’ve read a lot that men withdraw after an intensely emotional experience. It is how they process. I don’t know what happened with your guy although I do remember the post you wrote right after it happened. One thing about my guy friend who I wrote about, who didn’t withdraw or “get weird” or runaway is that he is a lot younger than me and hasn’t really been hurt by women emotionally yet. My cousin and I were talking about this the other night, how men fully love when they are young and are often hurt by women who aren’t ready for them… they then learn how to protect themselves and learn to shut down. I don’t know if this is the case with your friend, but it makes so much sense to me. Just as we women have learned behaviors we do to protect ourselves, so do men and withdrawing is definitely one of them. To a degree it is natural for the masculine, but I can see with my friend how he isn’t jaded by women yet and this probably contributes to him having emotional muscle to continue interacting and expressing himself. Just a thought

  82.  #82Indigo on March 31, 2016 at 10:43 pm


    It feels so good to see you back here. I have really missed you.

    I think you and I might be around the same age, or you might be a little younger than me, but I just wanted to encourage you by saying that I found no fulfillment in any of the work that I did for the first 13 or 14 years of my working life. All of it made me unhappy. I thought there was something wrong with me.

    It wasn’t until I started studying that I came alive again in regards to work.

    Don’t lose heart, dear siren. Keep pointing your heart in the direction that you want to go and the feelings you want to feel and it will happen for you. <3

  83.  #83Emerson on March 31, 2016 at 10:50 pm

    hello sirens, I have been away from the blog, nice to “see” you all here and catch up with what has been going on with everyone.

    I am changing jobs again. I tried a new venture and it’s not my thing. I need to be honest with myself and move on. I already have another job offer, so I have to make a final decision tomorrow.

  84.  #84Indigo on April 1, 2016 at 2:10 am

    Beloved 78,

    An article from Dominique on your situation which might help you:

    It’s helped me a great deal.

  85.  #85Zara on April 1, 2016 at 2:50 am

    ***** Liquid Light
    Mar 28 – 1:19 pm
    A couple more things about my date, would like to get your thoughts…
    I hardly hear from him between dates. No phone calls and no texts (only to line up next date.) Its a bit weird. Not bad weird but a bit different. I don’t really mind taking it slowly but it is throwing me off a bit. In between dates, I make up all sorts of stuff about him (like he’s married, like he’s a player, like he’s – you name it). But then when I see him, it’s always a great time. So not sure what to make of the lack of contact in between dates? Any thoughts? *****

    On this recording, at minute 27 and 30 seconds, Dr Pat Allen answers this same question.
    She calls this behaviour “clit teasing”.


  86.  #86Indigo on April 1, 2016 at 2:55 am

    Millie 76,

    I agree with Posie that you have seemed so unbelievably together of late, and this is such wonderful, positive movement.

    When this happens, people who are not in alignment with us naturally fall away. This is a good thing.

    If it were me, I would take it day to day and do what I felt I could do and what felt right to me. If you want to block his number today, then do. Few things are irreversible. And I have done this, blocked or deleted someone from technology and unblocked them after a while. I believe this back and forth is the brain’s way of processing confusing feelings. Eventually you WILL find your equilibrium and the place where you feel strong.

  87.  #87Azure Blu on April 1, 2016 at 4:58 am

    Mille #76
    You Wrote:

    “EVEN IF ITS GIVING UP POWER. He knows how I feel, he probably thinks he “has” me and I’m not a challenge… Today I feel kind of sad about it…”

    Rori would tell you… Being honest and sharing YOUR real feelings….
    IS NOT giving up your power…
    It puts you in a position of POWER
    You are standing for YOU and YOUR heart
    and YOU discover what HE is STANDING for…

    Now you are discovering more about who M REALLY is
    Because you are sharing who YOU really are
    AND you are deciding *IF* he fits into YOUR
    That *IS* POWERFUL!!!

  88.  #88Azure Blu on April 1, 2016 at 5:26 am

    Indigo #84
    I love this link…
    such a great reminder…

    as Spirit and I get closer i can see me wanting to take the lead
    there are ways to gently ask for what I want
    But still allowing him to lead
    and/or work at completing tasks together….

  89.  #89Tereana on April 1, 2016 at 5:49 am

    Azure Blu – to answer your question in 72… ***I have no idea*** I wish I knew.

    Sometimes I think it’s one. Then I think maybe the other. Based on my reactions, I even wonder if something “happened” to me when I was little – maybe too small to remember. I can say that I don’t remember anything like that. But I do have many clear memories of childhood.

    However…I have read from victims of extreme sexual abuse in childhood, who also have dissociative experiences, that even though certain memories are compartmentalized out of awareness, that is coexistent with a very clear memory for the things they do remember.

    I have spoken to survivors of rape trauma that say my bodily sensations and physical and emotional responses to sex are much like theirs and other survivors. But like I said, I DONT REMEMBER ANYTHING. There is nothing for me to “resolve” or “overcome,” because I don’t know what “it” is.

    Even my therapists are unclear on the answer to your question. I’ve been asked many times. My answer is always “I don’t know.” Sometimes they suggest that it could be just based on my experience with my parents. But if so, why so extreme? Why so specific to sex? Why so protective, and why so angry? Nothing about this response seems to track back to them, whereas most of my triggers, I can instantly identify, “oh that’s where that came from, because they did xyz.” I don’t have that with the sexual stuff. Either because it is so deep and subconscious, or because it has nothing to do with them. Or maybe *they* abused me, and I have no idea and no way to find out, and the very thought of it frightens me and fills me with dread.

    I once had a dream that my mom was pimping me out to an older man that I didn’t like. I had another dream that my father was holding my down with his arm and I was scared. Both of these dreams were very vivid. I remember them like they actually happened – especially the one about my father.

    Anyway. You ask me an interesting question, and I don’t mind. I, too, would like an answer. But right now, I don’t have one.

    It makes me so sad, though. I just want to enjoy sex and not “freak out,” and not hate the guy afterward. Most guys, if I give them a warning ahead of time, will be sympathetic. But they are not sympathetic after the fact, once I am in full “freak-out-hate” mode and they become the recipient of all my venom. Even if they tolerate it for a while, they eventually give up. And at the same time that I hate it, I also can’t blame them when I see if from their side.

    Yet my reactions are one of pain and asking for help. My reactions are, to me, as someone who has deeply been hurt. I usually feel as if it is those guys who have hurt me, and I treat them accordingly. But they are all the ones who get hurt. I’m willing to guess that most of them were just trying to love me. And I still don’t know why I do this

  90.  #90BeLoved on April 1, 2016 at 8:44 am

    Indigo – thank you for the link! It is helpful to remember men don’t see things the way we do.

    He called me this morning and I feel satisfied with how the conversation went as far as the not-firming-up went.
    Other stuff was revealed, though, and my heart is feeling some of the pain of reality seeping in. I appreciate this, because the little stings do teach and inform in a way that pure logic and reason don’t.

  91.  #91Starla on April 1, 2016 at 9:41 am

    Tereana, I can’t remember but, was it you who had mentioned having a bpd diagnosis a long time ago? I need to keep a spreadsheet of all you ladies, haha.

  92.  #92Liquid Light on April 1, 2016 at 9:56 am

    Thanks Zara 85, that was really interesting!

  93.  #93Sophie on April 1, 2016 at 10:11 am

    Thank you Indigo and Beloved

    Yes we are similar in age I think Indigo…I would love to know the thing I’d like to do but I don’t so I will continue to focus on the feelings of it.

    Peaceful, uplifting…inspiring…something that feels a good fit for my talents and who I am…

    I feel slightly unfunked for reaching out for some support. Here, and professionally again…and there’s a job I will apply for…not sure about the job but it could at least be a more feel good environment to live in…

  94.  #94Tereana on April 1, 2016 at 10:13 am

    Emerson: congratulations!! 🙂

    Millie (81) – yes, I agree. That thought has occurred to me, too. And even though I was freaking out and trying to get him “not” to shut down and walk away, part of me was thinkin my that maybe he’s just doing a natural rubber-band man-cave thing. Maybe he just needs a LOT of space to process because there is a lot for him TO process.

    And for me, too, incidentally.

    Which is why I don’t feel like contacting him right now. If he is going to, then he will. But right now, I have to seriously consider if what I’ve seen of him is really right for me, or if I was just going along with a good-feeling thing in the moment that really isn’t best for me overall.

    My silence feels like a good place to be

  95.  #95BeLoved on April 1, 2016 at 10:24 am

    I’m feeling angry right now.
    LankyCD, teasingly said that I am not ready for HIM. I was just silent, because I didn’t want to argue, I did tell him that didn’t feel good to hear.
    And I’m like…F*CK you. Because, I’m single, available, I’VE DONE THE WORK FOR YEARS. LankyCD is the one who isn’t ready for me to love him down like nobody’s business.
    I feel charged up and feel like…haha I feel like I want to be Godzilla clearing out a whole city. Wipe all this mess off of the table in front of me and clear it out and shake it off. Ugh, keep your funky f*cking projections to yourself. GET THEM OFF OF ME!!

  96.  #96Tereana on April 1, 2016 at 10:47 am

    Starla – spreadsheet. LOL.

    Yes, that was me. But that doesn’t really change anything about what I said. I would say the BPD describes how my mind decided to cope with the constant stressors that my parents and family made around me, which I could not excaoe from at the time. I needed them, and the ways I adapted in order to be able to survive in that environment turn out to be not conducive to having great relationships with other healthy adults. Go figure. And even once you know, it does take a long time to unwind. But it can be done. That stuff is not baffling to me. It makes perfect sense.

    The offer stuff, the sexual stuff – it’s a total mystery. It feels entirely different, more powerful, more elemental, more visceral. And I have no idea where it comes from, and it feels devastating.

    I wish I knew 🙁

  97.  #97Tereana on April 1, 2016 at 10:53 am

    BeLoved – but didn’t you have a good date? What happened? Is he doing a rubber band thing now, too?…

  98.  #98Starla on April 1, 2016 at 10:55 am

    Tereana, the way you explain your feelings and reactions to various things in intimacy totally falls in line with bpd thought patterns, at least to me. I have a bpdmom and have been working through my own fleas and patterns for years. What kind of therapy are you in?

  99.  #99Azure Blu on April 1, 2016 at 11:18 am

    Teraena #89
    Ahhh… darling Siren.
    So interesting to read about not understanding
    why you react sooo vehemently to the men after s*x.
    That you and your therapists have questioned and prodded but to no avail…

    You are being so vulnerable and innocent heart
    with your sharing here on Siren Island.
    it is lovely…
    You are cherished here!!

  100.  #100BeLoved on April 1, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    Tereana – the BPD would explain the cycles of idealization/devaluation. I used to go through that, too, in huge rollercoaster swoops. Between BK’s ‘the work’, mindfulness practice, and Rori’s tools, it’s more like little bumps but I still cycle. I just don’t buy into it the way I used to. I’ve heard it gets better with age fwiw.

    And yes, we had a really good date. And, this is the ‘getting a divorce’ guy. In asking questions, I’m getting he isn’t as far along in the divorce process as I believed. He isn’t as available for real dates as he made out to be. At the same time, I know this man has the real feels for me and we talk about everything, even the hard stuff, with so much openness and ease so, idk. I do feel happy to have held my boundaries and kept to my other plans for the day, even though I will miss him, because otherwise would have felt out of balance and not right.

  101.  #101Azure Blu on April 1, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    Beloved #100
    WOW!!! sounds perfect… especially finding out
    early that he isn’t as far along in the divorce cycle…
    YOU can be MORE chilllll….
    and so glad you weren’t available…

    I’ve done that… made sure I had a plan B when I didn’t hear from him…
    missed the guy terribly
    BUT it made ME feel self love
    and NOT taking crumbs!!

  102.  #102Millie on April 1, 2016 at 6:16 pm

    I just listened to the talk by pat Allen posted by Zara and WOW!!! Just wow the clit teasing is so eye opening!!!! I see now how even though I thought I was in feminine energy I am really an alpha! M has been baiting me to chase him! And I followed!! When we met I was completely in feminine energy and then once he withdrew my masculine energy was triggered and by me saying “I want” is still sending chasey vibes. He IS testing me! Men do not want to marry women who chase. Well, masculine men don’t. So lean back is where I need to be and ask nothing of him. I have to value myself enough to know the right man will give freely once he sees I am a woman who he will need to cherish in order to “get.” To be in feminine isn’t to ask, it is to trust. Trust and value myself and hold my boundaries. It’s that simple!!! Yay!!! I feel like I get it!!!!

  103.  #103Millie on April 1, 2016 at 6:42 pm

    Zara– do you know where I can send questions to Dr. Pat Allen to receive a response on the air?

  104.  #104Angela on April 2, 2016 at 12:54 am

    I want to evaluate my relationship obsess over it.
    What went wrong . In my opinion we were different. I couldn’t accept him, because who he was was not who i wanted. i did love him somewhere in my heart.
    But those things triggered me too much.
    Ah breakup sucks, i cried so much today, the relationship is done…
    I cried so much it hurt so bad. I sat on the floor and my dogs surrounded me aw their love felt so good.
    I dont want to say mean things in the next relationship.
    I want to be loved and love someone and tell them how i feel.
    I want that person to hold me when I’m sad and not let me go like this guy did.He let me go so many times.
    ”I bring out the worst in him, i forced him to be in a relationship, i make him act out, i dont understand him”
    Hmm i do say mean things sometimes, and i feel Im ashamed i don’t want to b mean when i am hurt. 🙁
    I told my sister about the breakup she’s so much younger than me and said something so wise. “Why do you want to be with someone who doesnt love you? Why would you want that person back?!”
    Something clicked inside me when she said that, it made me feel good.
    Then i talked to my other best friend i told her the biggest part was that i knew relationships were not supposed to be this hard.
    I told her i felt lonely and i used him to fill that up.She was kind and gentle with me she told me to make peace with my loneliness to calm my mind.
    I do have an obsessive mind.
    I feel sad we had beautiful memories together, it hurts that he was able to let go of all of it and just leave and go party.
    My tears didn’t matter. I want my tears to matter for me to matter i want to be hold like a baby cuddled, i want to be treasured and all he did was leave. i feel angry. I feel like calling him things like “asshole you lied how do you stop loving someone in one day, why is it so hard to forgive my mean words, why can’t you change , why didnt you love me, and i hate you ?!” I wont do it though. I have blocked his number( and i know theres hope hell come back but i dont want to take him back) i want to be strong and never take him back. Why do i believe in the goodness in him and he doesnt believe in mine?! Why do i forgive him so easily ? Ugh
    Ah i feel sad i feel, i feel numb. I feel hurt with the things he said that i fucked his life up. 🙁
    How toxic we were to each other, it hurts to hear that i dont want to call myself toxic. hmm what if i see that everything in life is beautiful even this might be beautiful. Even anger is beautiful. What if this shit doesnt mean either of us are bad people . I like thinking that, makes me feel happy.. How did i get this happy. Riffing as rori calls it 🙂 I love it! He says he’s happier without me why the hell does that hurt? Hmm idk haha who cares. He’s beautiful and i loved him once. I love him i love him i love him. And no i dont want to beg i want to kill (yes strong word)that part of me that begs a man. i HATE IT! Why do i beg for love? Hmmm I have begged him before and he has come back. How sad. Why did he always come back? Now i am sad and angry he comes back!
    I want to be strong enough to let a man go!!! Any man!
    Ah i feel angry with myself!
    I beg him to come back because his opinion of me matters so when he comes back i can change his opinion of me then i fuck up and the cycle begins again. Hmm I’m punishing myself or is he?!
    Fuck it (are we allowed to say curse words sorry if not rori, I’m just riffing away)i forgive myself!
    Ok i made him crazy now what!
    Now nothing! stop expecting him to come back!
    Let the memories be there, let the love you have be there without acting on it, like chasing him stop trying to save him let him live.
    He sai he doesnt love you believe it love. He has said that before ugh.
    I hate this up and down.
    Ok space i think i need space.
    Universe please let me find true love soon!
    i want love real love ok ! Do you hear me universe? i want to be loved, I’m not desperate just want companionship awesome sex i want to love too , i want it all peace in my heart a friend who doesnt leave me in tears. i want love! so bad! so bad! to know what it is what it feels like! Ah i put up with his shit too long. he never listened to me. i want a listener well at least someone who wants to work things out. Universe i want happiness and love! And universe help me be happy with myself. i want joy. no more pain like this kind of pain. just true love 🙂

  105.  #105Indigo on April 2, 2016 at 3:42 am

    Millie 102,

    “To be in feminine isn’t to ask, it is to trust.”

    This is soooo true. It’s hard though, isn’t it, when you’ve been hurt and let down before.

    But what you’ve said is it exactly.

    I am finding with the guy I am with now, I don’t want to ask. I don’t want to push and I don’t want to prod, and I don’t want to control in any way. I just don’t want to. I just want to let him give freely to me whatever he wants to give. It feels so wonderful, for him as well.

    I can see how in the past, whenever I didn’t trust, I would try to guide and “coach” and request the man. I’m not saying I’m to blame here, not at all, but they didn’t like it and they did withdraw.

    It feels so good not to come from a needy place. To express my feelings and just wait and see what he comes up with. I don’t feel any urgency at all.

  106.  #106Tereana on April 2, 2016 at 6:07 am

    I miss him today. I miss him as a friend, though. It was too complicated to try doing more. I don’t blame myself. I think o did what any normal person would have done in the same situation. But what it did to me, I don’t like. And I didn’t lose a lover. I lost a friend. At least for now : (

  107.  #107Millie on April 2, 2016 at 9:07 am

    I feel confused now… Rori says the feminine expresses using words like I feel”, ” I want”, and “I don’t want.” However Pat Allen says using words like “I want” is masculine and no masculine man wants to be controlled. Asking comes across as needy. Ugh

    Will I ever get the hang of this?

  108.  #108nyx on April 2, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @ Tereana
    I do not think it has to do with anything specific. I think maybe you just feel they get too close, too fast. I am not sure how to solve this either, though I am totally convinced Circular dating is the most empowering tool I have ever came across: thank you so much, Rori! Maybe, if you keep circular dating, one man’s advances, no matter how close they get, in time, will not feel that threatening.
    Tereana- I have felt what you feel, and I know it is possible to get over it. Especially as you now have observed your reactions and started to question them. Good luck!

  109.  #109MissStix on April 2, 2016 at 6:25 pm

    I’m feeling a very strong urge to break up with my bf again.
    He didn’t do anything…
    I just woke up from a nap and there it was that familiar driving urge.
    The urge to just be free, not in a relationship.
    I love him yet I have no vision of a furture with him. It feels like a big black hole sucking all my positivity.
    I already broke up with him…
    It’s like it never even happened…
    I feel like mush.
    I want to pinpoint the exact day it cycled right back to where it was.
    I feel stuck here going nowhere, doing nothing.
    I mean…We go nowhere and do nothing. We just hang out at home.
    He makes all kinds of POSSIBLE plans yet we don’t actually go do them.
    And that’s just it.
    In the bigger picture he won’t let me make the plans yet he won’t do anything to make the plans himself.

    This spiraled into complaining.
    But maybe it’s helpful in this case.
    We don’t even fight anymore…would be great if I wasn’t dying for something interesting to happen.
    How many times do I bring these things up before something actually happens? And why hasn’t any of this pushed him away?
    I’m doing it too well? It just draws him closer and closer and i’m feeling suffocated.
    There it is…
    I feel like putting my hand up and saying BACK OFF.
    I don’t want to do that. I want to approach everything gently and with tact.
    I feel so….In the wrong place right now. The wrong place…wrong time…
    It’s freaking me out a little now.
    Time to stop I guess.

  110.  #110Tee on April 2, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    Things are pretty mellow around here.
    Landed another eye infection, wtf!!!
    Interviewed for a job last Tuesday, I guess if I make the cut they’ll let me know, they open up in May.
    My aunt told me that she knows a millionaire who needs some data entry help. One of her Internet friends that she’s met before and she’s cool with.

    I’m not entirely sure how I feel about this. I don’t wanna end up some chocolate bunny sex slave lol
    Of course my aunt said she’ll be with me in the beginning. I’m about to lose it because my phone isn’t ringing with offers & it’s disappointing despite my efforts to come off a bit more….employable.

    E & I are ok. Too much time in this apartment has us a little stir crazy.
    I’ve noticed that it’s easier for us to talk while he’s active. Some of our best conversations has been while he’s driving.

    I finally was accepted into the ADHD Spouse Support Group & it’s horrible lol maybe the contrast is there to help me appreciate the man that I have. Everyone is unhappy, going through a divorce, in therapy or on medication to help them deal with their husband. It’s so sad. It’s basically a pity party.

    E is a little unorthodox but he’s not as bad as some of the things I’ve read there….yikes! I know that I whine but E is at least capable.

    That’s about it for now 🙂

  111.  #111MissStix on April 2, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    I feel better now 🙂
    Venting was good.

  112.  #112Millie on April 2, 2016 at 10:17 pm

    An interesting thing happened. I was talking with my father about masculine and feminine energy. I have been wondering if my mother is masculine and that’s where I get it, the answer is yes. I asked my father if he enjoyed her being in the masculine role and he said NO!! That he is unhappy and so is she! But they are working on it and she is becoming more relaxed. I talked to him about what’s been happening with M for the first time. My father became pretty passionate and said that he will never forgive M for how he treated me and disappeared with no word. He said that was unacceptable. I said well maybe you value me more than I value Me because I forgave him. I also said that I would never marry a man that he and my mom did not approve of/like. In response my father said he would never accept M into our family. At that, I feel like I can finally let go. Stop giving him chances, stop blaming myself. Even IF he turned around, hearing my father say that just solidified everything. That he no longer needs to be in my life. No possibility here anymore. Having my fathers understanding mattered the most to me. I think I’m ready to let this go and really focus on moving forward with new men who could really bring something positive into my life.

  113.  #113Millie on April 2, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    I want to share that my parents’ opinion did not always matter to me. I went through many years being headstrong and rebelling against them. I did what *I* wanted and am a very independent, self-sustaining person as a result. Coming into adulthood, I have come to have a great friendship with my parents and truly value their opinions and reflections. They are wonderful people, who continually grow with each other. They know me very well and want the best for me. If I wanted to marry someone that they felt was really wrong for me and would not make me happy in the long run, I would definitely re-evaluate my decisions because there must be a good reason for them feeling that way. My father is a very ruminative person, who is mainly reserved…solution oriented, masculine, and full of heart kind of soul. I trust he and my mother’s guidance. I believe they will not steer me wrong. I think for myself, clearly, but when it comes to marriage and family, I do want my future husband to be loved by them and welcomed. I want to share him with my family, instead of his presence creating a divide. This matters to me and I feel strong and secure knowing it.

    It is also interesting that of the significant people in my life that I have shared my story of M with, not ONE has said to continue to be open to him. Not one…

    I feel so ready to allow the right man in now…to completely feel my desires, the qualities I seek in a man, to KNOW what that feels like and what it doesn’t…I can put this to bed and get excited!!!! Excited about new amazing men that will come to me!

  114.  #114Posie on April 3, 2016 at 5:49 am

    Millie, this might not be what you’re hoping to hear, but from everything you’ve wrote, M is an absolute douchebag. Like the definition of it. He is emotionally unavailable with narcissistic tendencies.

    I’m sorry. But if felt like I had to get that off my chest. He has always seemed that way. He just doesn’t seem to align at all with what you suggest you are looking for and are deserving of.

    He continues to do things that test your boundaries, even though you’ve been clear about them. He’s keeping you on a hook. He reminds me of an immature, self loathing, bar star who uses women to feel good about himself. That’s just where he’s at in his own journey.

    And you have been doing such a good job navigating that mess while giving yourself time to figure him and yourself out.

    But he’s a douche. Has been aince the beginning of the atory. Rori says trust… But only someone worth trusting. He’s just not there, probably has years before he would be.

    When it works, it FEELS good. MOST of the time. (Other than our own neurosis of course).

    That’s opiniony, I know.

  115.  #115Zara on April 3, 2016 at 6:02 am

    ***** 106: Millie says:

    I feel confused now… Rori says the feminine expresses using words like I feel”, ” I want”, and “I don’t want.” However Pat Allen says using words like “I want” is masculine and no masculine man wants to be controlled. Asking comes across as needy. Ugh

    Will I ever get the hang of this?

    Saturday, 2 April 2016 9:07am *****

    Women want things “in general”
    “I want to be a wife and a mother. I want to live in Miami.”
    She is not telling the man she wants him to make it happen for her. She is only putting out her big picture, not worrying about the hypothetical man who will want to be part of it. She is speaking of her own destiny in general, regardless of the man.

    Men want a thing “in particular”.
    “I want you”.
    When their eyes like what they see of you and when your big picture inspires them, they will propose a way to become the lucky man allowed to step into your big picture.

    The woman either says :”Yea, thank you” or “No, thank you” but she does not say:”Yes, but I WANT YOU TO DO this and that before I can feel good with the deal I am pretending to accept”. That would be the same as saying “I am a man competing with you and I want to win the control over you”.

    When what the man proposes does not feel good, be it. He does not feel inspired or he does not have what it takes, whatever, the “why” does not matter. It is what it is. The woman can use him to practice sharing her feelings and expressing her “don’t want” and to practice NOT teaching the man how to do things the way they look in her big picture. He is who he is, bless him, some other man will come along who will naturally feel good. So she keeps dating all the other men who ask her out.

    When you told D “I miss you.” or “I have feelings for you and it makes it painful to hear about another girl in your life. I feel protective of my broken heart and so I will leave the conversation. I wish you well.” , you told the truth, you shared your true feelings, you allowed him to see the real you, to “get” you. It makes you become “real” to him, beyond the cold head game he thinks you are playing with him. He gets that it’s about a human being, he leaves his head and his p*nis and he connects into his own heart.
    Same for you. You heard your own heart telling your real truth which lead you to vote for yourself. It empowers you. It gives you strength and dignity. And shine.

    See? You did not tell him what you want him to do. You did not say “Stop talking about her” “I don’t want you to speak about her”. That would be being a control freak. It would be teaching him who to become so to please you. It would be minding his business. And it would leave you feeling powerless.
    What you did is sharing your feelings and signaling respectfully that you were walking away. You did not require anything he should do. You required from yourself you should leave. You took responsibility for your feelings.
    It signals him (and Universe and yourself) what you “don’t want” in your life. Which leaves space for Universe (and men and yourself) to fill with what you DO want.
    What you expressed is that D has the right to talk all he wants about the other woman and in the mean time you are leaving because it feels painful. You minded your own business when you left. And you respected him when you signaled that you were leaving. You acted self centred. Self centred women tend to create a feel good life for themselves which incidentally attracts grown up men and even sometimes upgrades the man already in their life.

    D can feel inspired to not put you through this experience again because you gave him a map to avoid this bad feeling path. He now knows you “don’t want” that and he is free to give you any other thing that he might want to give and see if you accept it. Your “don’t want” does not make him feel controlled. He still has his choice to surprise you with anything else he might want to give you. As opposed to when you say what you want him to do and he feels controlled which causes resistance.
    Or D can keep on the same bad feeling road and text you again about the other woman. It is up to who he is. It’s his phone, his fingers, his life time, he will text what he wants. Be it. You are free to either keep texting back “I don’t want to read about another woman. It feels (painful). I am leaving the convo.” , or to ignore the bad feeling texts or even to block his number.

    Whichever way it goes, you experienced how to find your own truth in the middle of pain and how to tell the truth without blaming and how it feels to walk away in a respectful manner. You experienced dignity. You upgraded yourself and either D (and any coming man) upgrades through your heart or he will be left behind, among the casualties of your old self while you keep morphing for the best.


  116.  #116Indigo on April 3, 2016 at 6:22 am


    I totally agree with Posie. I have thought that since the very beginning of your story with M, when you first started writing about him (even during your heyday when you were saying how good it was). Something smelled so off to me, it reminded me of similar experiences I have had in the past that turned out the same way.

    That said, you have gained fantastic awareness and growth through this experience, and that is something to celebrate.

    There are much, much better men out there, men who are actually worthy of you. My wish for all women is that we strive to become the best version of ourselves as partners and stop tolerating these emotionally unavailable, ego-driven, arrogant tools. I know how judgey this sounds, but there is no need to berate or criticise them or make them suffer in any way… just to recognise there’s no fit here, no “alignment” like Posie said, and say goodbye.

  117.  #117Zara on April 3, 2016 at 9:13 am

    ***** 102 Millie
    To be in feminine isn’t to ask, it is to trust. Trust and value myself and hold my boundaries. *****

    Yes, trust MYSELF, trust MY boundaries, trust *I* will be all right no matter what happens.

    This way, I may encounter the worst PUA adept, and any type of label like narcissist, psychopath and so on, I keep myself grounded with my “don’t want” and I walk away with dignity from what feels bad.
    I don’t have to bother to label any man on the account they came on strong just to vanish with no warnings. It just is. Ebbs and flow of life. They come close, they leave. They don’t “take” anything from me other than what I felt good giving.

    I do only what *I* really want to do, guided by the pain from my boundaries when I am about to do something for the wrong reasons, like for example giving money to look independent and strong, or even to prove I am equal to men, like sleeping with them hoping to get them to stay, or sleeping with them because it is said that a free woman should want to sleep around, or because it is said that sex means nothing to others so I convince myself it means nothing to me, although all my cells are telling me sex is G*dly.

    When I trust my boundaries, I feel them painful when I am about to agree to something not in alignment with my cells. I have the choice to either respect my boundaries or to follow the men’s will against my instinct. If I chose to trust my instinct and to follow that feeling, I am most probably going to be good, no matter who I meet. (I am not speaking of criminal encounters like when a man breaks in a woman’s home).

    I can’t trust a stranger, not even after 6 months of dating. So until he has proven to be worthy of trust, I trust MYSELF. I trust I can respect my boundaries. It is not up to the world to respect my boundaries, it is up to me. People do their best to get what they want which seldom participates to my peace, so no matter who I am dating, I keep self centered on keeping my peace. Which means I keep aware of my boundaries warning lights => my feelings 😉

    For this I need to hear myself tell the truth about my feelings. It is like a finger pointed for ME to see where exactly my boundaries are just about to be trespassed by myself. Nobody trespasses my boundaries because my boundaries are inside me. My boundaries do not belong inside others. What belongs to others is what they do for their own reasons that have nothing to do with my peace.. I am the one who trespasses myself when I don’t walk away from bad deals.

    I trust MY boundaries even before I can intellectualise them. They will send bad feeling signals in case I am offered a bad deal. Hence the expression “something feels off, let’s get out of here!” 🙂

    Trust is about myself knowing what I want from life in general, how I want to feel in particular and have I negotiated enough with myself that I can be sure I will acknowledge the signals that say: “Bad deal, I am out! Next experience, please!”


  118.  #118Posie on April 3, 2016 at 10:07 am

    Zara, your last couple of posts on trust and on expressing want are really well articulated and clarifying! Thank you for putting the time into those explanations!

    Indigo, I am in complete agreement about not needing to berate or blame. It just is what it is.

    I remember being involved with someone who sounds similar to M. It was exhausting. And one day, after tonnes of back and forth and thinking, I asked myself to give up investing any thought or emotional energy in him. Just for that day, I said. My mind would turn its attention to him, I’d catch myself, and gently remind myself that I could just let it go for one day and not pay attention to it. It was VERY hard. It’s like I was worried that if I stopped thinking about it or daydreaming on it something bad would happen. Not sure what. But it took conscious effort to catch myself in thoughts of it and change direction. I caught myself about 100 times that day dwelling on him in some way or another, or on me and what it must all mean about me (which was really just more thinking about him but in disguise). And 100 times I invited myself to softly turn my attention to the present moment instead. Brushing my teeth, washing the dishes, going for a walk.

    When I was done that day, I realized just how much energy of mine was given away through that relationship and not returned. 100 times I caught myself.

    So I did the same exercise the next day. 100 more times. And at the end of day 2 I realized I had a painful and exhausting addiction to that relationship and making it work. I decided not to allow my mind to invest any longer.

    It was very hard.

    it took about 7 months to shed him completely from my skin. And a roller coaster of feelings thoughts and sensation. I’d just keep methodically and gently turning my attention to the present moment. He texted a couple times in there. I’d give a tiny and polite response, but nothing invested. No conversations. No goodbyes. No blaming.

    I saw him last week in passing. It’s been a little over a year. Said hi. And I didn’t feel a thing. No anger, no longing, no nothing. Just hi. And a peace that I’m just not even close to being in that space. There was zero draw there at all. Feels fan effing tastic to be rid of all that.

  119.  #119Millie on April 3, 2016 at 10:09 am

    Posie and Indigo–

    Haha! He totally IS a douchebag!! Do not worry, I feel completely open to hearing all of your true feelings and opinions!! I agree…he is narcissistic and using me to feel good…even though when I express how I feel *not good*, he apologizes. So, to some extent I am stopping him from using me in that way.

    The scary thing for me here…is why I am I not able to determine this after he did the first hurtful thing? I feel reluctant in my heart to ever deem someone an a**hole entirely. There is something inside me that believes in men, believes they are good, sees when they are lost, sees when they are angry, sees the mess and wants to uncover it… I don’t like giving up on people. I think it all comes back to how *I want* to be treated. It feels horrible when I’ve done something wrong and people have cut me out of their life without giving me a chance to explain or hearing me out. That is starting to sound “victimy” to me….hmmmm..
    It takes a long time for me to completely write someone off, because I understand the twists and turns of life, where we keep growing and our feelings change. It scares me a little bit that I will risk my own harm in order to give someone else the benefit of the doubt. I have to come up with a new boundary… that I will give a person one chance after they have done something to hurt me, not ten. Or something along those lines…

  120.  #120Indigo on April 3, 2016 at 10:32 am

    Millie 118,

    I understand how that feels, and there is no need to brand anyone an a**hole or give up on them, or anything dramatic like that.

    I agree I also don’t like giving up on people or cutting them loose when they make a misstep or two.

    This is not really about that. For me anyway, it’s about tuning into your intuition… if you really listen to it it will tell you when something is a bit off. And you don’t have to cut bait right then. For me the lesson has just been to keep my power. To take things slower, to not be so quick to give my heart away, to get into a relationship, to put pressure on things, to not be too quick to invest. Not to be too quick to give other people the power over my happiness or the power to cause me pain. I’ve noticed that naturally over time a caution has developed in me, and that’s a GOOD thing. You really don’t know someone until many months, years have passed. Until they have consistently shown you. So, don’t be too quick to judge (yourself or the man) but don’t be too quick to give your heart away either.

  121.  #121Millie on April 3, 2016 at 10:42 am

    The cool thing about talking to my father about it was that I told him I did blame myself for not being in feminine energy with M. My dad asked if I had been in masculine from the start. I said no, I was in feminine from day 1, he did all the pursuing! It wasn’t until he started pulling away that triggered me to jump into masculine mode. My father said- there you go! He pulled away first and wasn’t able to talk about it. You were doing everything right. He said next time M contacts me he wants to “put my masculine pants on” and put everything on him. He suggested to tell him I don’t trust him anymore and ask him what the h*ll he wants from me because I have already told him a million times what I want and don’t want and clearly he isn’t respecting that! Haha!!!! My father was so passionate as he was telling me this! I loved it!! I REALLY loved talking to him about masculine and feminine energy. We discussed the other people in our family and how the women are very masculine energy. We are bosses, managers, goal-getters, and sometimes don’t know how to transition out of that at home. My mother is a perfect example of this.

    I was driving he and I to an event (since I got a new car and he wanted to ride in it) and even though I knew my way around, he gave me directions to told me to turn right here, it is faster. Even though I knew my way around, I followed what he suggested. Didn’t even go into disagreement mode mentally. In contrast when I ride with him and my mother, she is in the passenger seat telling him how to drive. He brought that up in our discussion and how much it bothered him! I had totally seen that, but am not really in a position where I can tell my mom to sit back and let him row the boat. In the past, when I’ve given her advice, she takes it personally as she’s doing something wrong (sound familiar?) and then gets really defensive. I think I can learn a lot about ME by observing my mother and observing my parents relationship more. At first I thought my dad was Feminine energy, but after talking to him I see that he is masculine energy but has been a bit squashed by losing his job and in turn my mom’s masculine side coming out more to make up for it also contributing to that.

    He’s very solution oriented and very nurturing. He was also telling me some frustrations he is having with my younger brother. That he tries to help my brother by giving him suggestions and finding solutions but my brother never listens. Instead, my brother takes no action. He is constantly creating road blocks in his life rather than accepting people’s advice and help. Oh my! I have stayed out of this triangle because I have strong opinions about what my parents *should do* and it is not my place. Clearly my dad is treating my brother like a daughter and not a son. My brother does appear to be a feminine energy guy, especially in his dating life. He has been letting the woman lead and hangs back. It has not been working for him. A daughter would have a problem, express it to her dad, he then tries to help by finding a solution, she is grateful and happy and follows his advice! Easy-peasy. However, that does not seem like the best way for a man to handle his son. I am no expert in this at all, but it seems that a father should encourage his son to find *his own* solutions. There needs to be mutual respect. Right now my father is giving to my brother, giving him solutions, trying to *fix* things, and my brother, who now I’m thinking IS Masculine, is just not having it. He doesn’t feel respected by my father. (He has expressed that to me before) I don’t know what needs to happen here because I don’t know what the energy dynamics need to be between father/son, but I can totally see how my father is treating him as feminine energy and yet at the same time squashing his masculine by telling him what’s he IS and ISNT doing. Now, how to bring this up without me going into masculine energy???
    This is so cool! I love masculine and feminine energies!!!

  122.  #122Indigo on April 3, 2016 at 10:45 am

    On that note, I had an interesting experience happen to me recently, that showed me the power of my intuition.

    I went on a date recently with a man I met on Tinder (Tinder over here is used more like an online dating tool than a hookup app), and we had a very pleasant first date. I could see he was putting his “best foot forward”, and at the end of the date he kissed me. It was a little fast for me, but I went with it (by the way, for me it’s a caution sign if a man wants to move any aspect of the process too quickly). I left the date thinking he was nice, and seemed like a solid, good guy, but without feeling moved in any way emotionally. Had I delved into my feelings a little more I would have realised that deep down I sensed something a little calculating about him, as if his persona was carefully constructed to impress. Anyway, he had been very nice and I had no cause for alarm so I agreed to go out with him again 2 days later.

    However, the day before this second date, I had met the guy I am seeing now, and we were very captivated with each other. So after the second date with the first guy, during which I again got this uneasy feeling of some kind of coldness that I couldn’t quite explain. My heart felt closed up to him, and it would have been an effort to open it.

    Anyway, a week later this first guy contacted me again and I kindly told him that I had met someone else, that I thought he was lovely and wished him all the best. He unleashed a torrent of vitriol on me, telling me that I was dishonest, that I had “moved fast” in finding someone else and just being in general unnecessarily harsh and spiteful. All I could think was that now that he had nothing to lose, this guy’s true colours came out. It was eye opening. Men go to great effort to impress us in the beginning and win us, but the facade can’t last forever. At some point they will show you who they really are.

  123.  #123Indigo on April 3, 2016 at 11:05 am

    Millie 120,

    Wow, I feel full of feedback for you today Millie! Please tell me to shut up if it’s too much.

    In my experience, a woman cannot interfere in a father/son relationship. The energy balance is something they have to get right for themselves. And they would not respect your energy being in there in any way.

    In my experience, the father/son relationships that work the best are the ones where there is mutual respect. Mutual respect for what they can learn from and teach the other. And proper healthy boundaries, rather than seeking for the approval of or seeking to mould the other. I think you can tell a lot about a man from his relationship with his father, maybe everything.

  124.  #124Millie on April 3, 2016 at 11:22 am

    Indigo 119– Yes!!! I so see this and agree that I need to listen to my intuition more and that also means giving things TIME. I let M enter my heart too quickly without really knowing him and this is a great lesson!

    122–Yes, I have taken a back seat when it comes to how both of my parents have handled my brother and in turn my mother has taken a back seat and let my father rule it. I don’t want to interfere, but yesterday my father brought up “the feminization of men” in our society and I can find irony in his statement because he is raising a son to be feminine. It is clear as day to me. I do not want to step into a role that is *telling* any man what he is doing wrong or what he *should* do..I don’t want to be the masculine, however I feel excited sharing this idea of energies in our family. It would be an interesting discussion. I agree, not my place to give advice to either of my parents and that is why I have stood back and held the boundary of not giving my opinions on their parenting with him. I have also distanced myself from my brother because I do not want to go into advice giving mode with him either.

  125.  #125Millie on April 3, 2016 at 11:24 am

    Zara–thank you so much for these posts!! They are eye-opening and have helped my clarity! thank you!

  126.  #126Azure Blu on April 3, 2016 at 11:43 am

    nyx #107
    Llllooove this! ;;0_

  127.  #127Azure Blu on April 3, 2016 at 11:55 am

    Zara #114
    ohhh… this is so good…
    just what I needed to read today
    Thank you!

  128.  #128Azure Blu on April 3, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    Posie #117
    CONGRATULATIONS!! That must have felt so good to see him and feel YOUR power!!

    Thank you for sharing the journey you went through!

  129.  #129Zara on April 3, 2016 at 12:17 pm

    103 Millie

    1 323 203 0815 is the phone number to ask a question directly to Dr Pat Allen while she is on the air, during her radio show. You just keep calling untill they pick up your call, no need to send a message beforehand.

    Other than that, you will find all her details on this page

    Sometimes, during the radio show, Kelly seems to be reading questions from Dr Pat Allen’s face book. You might try to send a private email on face book before friday to ask if they do read private messages from this page


    (By the way, in post 114, I meant to write M, not D. Sorry about that. There was a time when “everybody” (not really, but very many) would write about a D on this blog and it seems to have kept with me 🙂 )

  130.  #130Liquid Light on April 3, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    Some random thoughts about my new CD, I’ll refer to him as K for now.

    We went out on another really fun date yesterday to a museum show which was spectacular. Then dinner at a great restaurant. We had a really intense talk, he is a great conversationalist. But it made me a bit uncomfortable. He really likes to go deep and I revealed things about myself that I rarely talk about. Just stuff I’ve been going through recently that is very private. All good stuff but I’ve been protective about sharing it with anyone since its my own personal journey which has been exciting and awesome for me. Its been a huge period of growth for me since I’ve been doing my art for the last 3 months, and its also been an amazing spiritual journey. I literally listen to Byron Katie sometimes all day long and do my art. It’s been absolutely an incredible journey. I’m growing so much from it.

    Anyway, I touched on this with him last night because he was so inquisitive. It felt really scary to me to expose myself like that especially because in my last relationship we hardly talked about anything meaningful LOL It was all about FUN.

    He’s great and he goes out of his way to please me. Its very sweet. At the same time, I feel like he’s not as masculine as I would like and am not feeling that sexual attraction as much as I would like. I typically go for hyper masculine men. At least I have in the last few years.

    I just talked to my Dad about him. My Dad was very enthusiastic and said no one is perfect and that if he’s 80% that’s fantastic. That I will never find 100%. My Dad knows me really well. I always fixate on the 20% that’s not what I like. It hasn’t worked for me because I’m single at 50 and no one is ever good enough for me. Except for my ex, but it turned out he was not a very good person. So something is obviously off with my man picker. LOL

    What my Dad said really made sense to me. It feels true. And I don’t want my head to have to convince my heart.

    Speaking of which, K seems to have a really good heart. He’s really a nice and thoughtful man, and just seems to want to make me happy 🙂

  131.  #131Tee on April 3, 2016 at 1:12 pm


  132.  #132Azure Blu on April 3, 2016 at 1:20 pm

    MissStix #108
    Mmmmm… interesting…

    “We don’t even fight anymore…
    would be great if I wasn’t dying for something interesting to happen.”
    “How many times do I bring these things up before something actually happens?”

    Does -lack of conflict- feel boring to you?
    Is *Your own life* filled with interests and people and YOU?

  133.  #133Azure Blu on April 3, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    Tee #109
    Congratulations on the job interview…
    you certainly are moving YOUR life

    I know for me, when i’m looking to hire someone…
    It has tipped the scales in their favor if they have emailed me and called after the job interview…
    I LOVE to see enthusiasm! :-))

    So the ADHD group doesn’t have tools or taking care of YOU systems that everyone is sharing?
    It does sound helpful to see what a GREAT
    guy E is- compared!!! :-))

  134.  #134Posie on April 3, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    Thanks Azure! It felt pretty good, didn’t even wonder for a second what he was thinking because it just doesn’t matter. And that was a very peaceful thing.

    I know where I’m at and where I’ve come from. No resentment, no regret, and not looking back that way. So many good things going on in my life. 🙂

  135.  #135Tee on April 3, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    Hey Azure Blue,

    I’ll definitely send a Thank You email soon. Yes, finally…some momentum! Sheesh! E is happy for me & has tried to alleviate some of my fears. He thinks I don’t believe in his parenting skills, that he couldn’t handle Isiah alone. He said that the hardest part, for him, will be the whine fest Isiah will have when he doesn’t see me. We’ll be fine & don’t keep calling!

    I think my fear will be in missing him.
    Just like with E, so much of my thoughts and heart is with my little guy that it might be rough!

    Or, maybe not! I’ll get more information tomorrow and since E doesn’t go back to work until sometime in May, that gives us time to adjust 🙂

    Do you believe that I have yet another eye infection smh lol I won’t let it stop me…I have things to do

    It took so long for them to add me to the group that I almost didn’t notice that I had been accepted so I just sat back & read the posts….oh man!

    I certainly don’t plan on chiming in with things that I dislike about E especially since he’s made a few changes. I haven’t seen noticed any posts about tools or self help systems but I’ll ask

    I was tempted to even post a link to this group smh sheesh

  136.  #136BeLoved on April 3, 2016 at 7:40 pm

    Zara – do you have Dr. Pat Allen’s WANT training by any chance? It seems interesting, I’m curious to hear more of what it’s about.

  137.  #137MissStix on April 3, 2016 at 10:50 pm


    I wouldn’t say lack of conflict feels boring to me. I did a lot of work with myself to feel safe within conflict. I’m generally more inclined to pacify conflict yet I believe engaging in healthy conflict can be good for a relationship.

    All my thoughts on this are a jumble. Seems like the feelings are coming from all over the place and I can’t reason them out. Which is fine…

    My life is full…I excel at work, I have yoga practice, my art, various small adventures I go on by myself.
    I lean heavily to the introverted side of the spectrum so a lot of people in my life feels more exhausting than anything. But I have my family and a few friends and random people I interact with going about my life.

    Maybe I need to start at the very beginning and work through my feelings around the relationship itself.
    It wasn’t always…this.
    In the simplest terms at first it was casual, then it was kind of volatile, then it was comfortable. It was never going anywhere. If I wanted marriage and babies I was “barking up the wrong tree” (his words). “That’s fine I don’t want to get married again.” My words.
    That kind of thing.

    I always imagined we would part one day. Then when I started to feel like I did want to get married again I allowed myself to believe he just MIGHT be kind of excited about the idea. Because he became a great partner and showed me daily how much he cared about me.
    So I said it…that I decided I did want to get married afterall. I always had in a sense, but I needed a break from the idea through the divorce I guess. I convinced myself I didn’t want it.

    He did not recieve it well. He said I was selfish. Spent a lot of time trying to convince me marriage is meaningless and unnecessary. I asked for space and he slept in the spare room one night but couldn’t do more than that and wooed me back. I caved. That was last year…

    Then I finally worked up the courage to give my no more girlfriend speech and here we are and nothing has really changed.
    I feel unheard…
    I never asked for more effort. I asked for a break…I literally said I want to break up.
    But I don’t know how to NOT melt when he comes onto me. I don’t want to put walls up around me. I don’t know how to get him to take me seriously without acting in ways that feel horrible so I continue to melt and let him in. I’m naturally leaned back because I have no forward energy to put into him.
    I do see how it’s drawing him in. Mixed signals.
    And I do have times where I convince myself to “choose love” and make efforts to feel good about being with him…

    I’m in a soup…

  138.  #138Indigo on April 4, 2016 at 3:33 am


    I identify so heavily with what you’ve written here, and I wonder if it has a lot to do with being very introverted.

    We crave love and connection with people, but at the same time we crave adventures of a more independent nature… We crave someone to make us feel alive and safe at the same time. Especially the more sensation-seeking among us introverts/highly sensitive people ( am definitely sensation seeking whilst also being very introverted and sensitive). Relationships as a result can feel confusing. When you share a deep and satisfying bond with someone, but it doesn’t meet all your needs.

    I’ve grappled with this for a very large portion of my adult life. Which is why to the outside world I seem to attract and go through relationships at quite a fast rate for someone who is looking to settle down. It’s hard to explain just exactly what I need, because it’s a combination of excitement and security, of intimacy and independence.

    I too have been married before and it didn’t work out, and I said for the first 4 or 5 years after my divorce that I didn’t want to get married again. I still am not in a hurry to get married, but I definitely do entertain the idea.

    All I can really say about all of this is that as time passes, your body and your soul naturally start to veer more towards the states of being that feel best to you, your true needs and wants become clearer and it becomes easier to decide when a situation is in alignment with that. When I’m in a situation that feels confusing… like for example a relationship like yours, I trust my higher self to bring about the right solution when the time is right. This sounds so new age and out there, but it always happens. I approach it with an attitude of trust that I don’t have to decide prematurely, but either that I will know what to do when the time is right, or that decision will be made for me.

  139.  #139Tereana -> LoveToMe on April 4, 2016 at 6:27 am

    Hi ladies 🙂

    I feel like choosing a new name here. I have been Tereana fit a while, and I love that name. But I realized just recently that my own initials can be used for an acronym of Love To Me. So I want that to be my new name. To remind myself of loving coming to me all the time.

  140.  #140LoveToMe on April 4, 2016 at 6:32 am

    Indigo – I like that part you just said about using your higher self to guide you in knowing what’s right and what fits you. I personally don’t like the decision to be “made for me.” (Any decision, really.) However…that being said, even though I don’t “like” it sometimes, my “higher self” can usually acknowledge that the decision is right. Even if it doesn’t “feel” good to my ego…

  141.  #141LoveToMe on April 4, 2016 at 6:34 am

    Oh, and btw, on the new name – it signifies ME giving love to me, as well as anyone else who chooses to join in ❤️

  142.  #142LoveToMe on April 4, 2016 at 6:58 am

    I don’t know if I will ever hear from my friend again. And if I do, I don’t even know what it is I want to hear. I’m not sure I want him to like me.

    Part of me thinks that I just “freaked out” and pushed him away. But what if I didn’t do that? What if I was actually just fine? What if I was having a perfectly good time, and HE freaked out, and pushed me away/ran away – much like I have done in the past? And maybe this bad feeling is me perceiving something about him that truly isn’t right for me? (much as part of me wishes he was – but do I?)

    And, Indigo again, that thing about not deciding prematurely…I have been wrestling with these conflicting ideas in my mind. Do I really not want him at all? Do I believe that he has a narcissistic, controlling streak (despite his “nice guy” persona), and is that why I am simultaneously attracted to and repelled by him? (Real talk: I don’t feel particularly “attracted” right now. I only really felt that when I was in the same physical space with him, and he was also moving toward me.)

    AND, at the same time….if I think of sending him a message, like, “Hey, this really isn’t going to work for me,” would I be “deciding prematurely,” as you say? Not only that, would I be manipulating him, to try and get him to do the opposite somehow? Like trying to use reverse psychology. Say “let’s not have a relationship,” so that he’ll want a relationship. Which never works. And it also means part of me DOES want a relationship. But I’m holding back out of spite or hurt, or whatever it is. It’s not genuine. So it wouldn’t “work” that way. It would only make things worse.

    Which is why – yes, Millie. CDing is the way to go. And lest all of you think I’ve been wholly focused on this one guy, just know that in my real life, I’ve been flirting up a storm – with men AND women. I’ve been busy, doing my life. Putting on a major performance with my dance students. As I go through these motions, thoughts of my friend come and go, they shift and change. My feelings morph and ebb and flow, and I let all that happen without reaching out. I can’t even sit down and type a letter to him that I won’t send. All I can do is compose them in my mind, but I’ll never write them down. I am collecting the things I might want to say in person, if I get the chance. But I can’t be sure I will have that opportunity. I just get to know the truth for myself.

    And knowing that my issue with sex is still “active,” I do feel some trepidation about actual dating. But never the less, I think I will try. I wanted to get through my show, and now that it’s done, I can start using my online profile again and just dabble in and see what’s there.

    There are guys EVERYWHERE. On the subway, just the other day, I made eye contact with this REALLY cute guy. He looked pretty young. And he was there nearly my whole trip. I felt like I had a wordless flirtation with him the entire time. I let him walk off without saying anything. But I decided that I liked the anonymity of not knowing. I liked recognizing the he was looking at me, standing near me, and that he could like me or think of me in a good way, and that he’ll never have to know anything different. He’ll never have to meet my triggers, or anger me when the sexual attraction gets too intense and overwhelming. He’ll never have to reject me or experience me rejecting him. Right now, we Vance suspended in a gel of infinite possibility that looks only beautiful. I want to preserve him that way, too.

    Maybe, if I see that guy again, I’ll smile and say hi. But meanwhile, there are lots of other people who will come up and talk to me. “It happens when you least expect it,” my coworker said. And she’s right. It’s hard not to “expect” it when you really want it. I guess the main thing that I can do is work on myself, work on my triggers, and try as much as I can to defuse all those nuclear war heads and emotional IEDs, so that eventually, with the right person, those triggers won’t even exist anymore. There will be nothing to set off. And the way he approaches me would defuse them by way of him loving me, even if I missed one that I didn’t see.

    What a lovely thought

  143.  #143Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 7:08 am

    Tee #134
    Wow… it’s so awesome to read how you and E are working together- team- to make lessen your anxiety around leaving Isaiha when you are at work…
    E’s way of showing more love to YOU!! yummie

    I feel happy, sunshiny hearing that you realize
    all the changes YOU have made… thus inspiring E!!
    Sooo magical….

    I can imagine there would be anxiety, heart strings pinning- over leaving Isaiha… I remember it was difficult to leave each child at daycare/school as they grew up!!!
    And you have lost a baby which must add to that…

    Yes… I agree about NOT talking about the things you are not happy with E about…

    I will ONLY talk about ALLL the good, wonderful, loving things that Spirit does…
    His manly, loving, kind melody that fills my heart
    and my body with HIS loving ways!!!

  144.  #144Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 7:16 am

    MissStix #136
    Should I stay or should I go?

    in the soup…
    Thank you for sharing the timeline of you and your man…
    I understand better now…
    And I see how *YOU* have a Wonderful life… Filled!

    Rori says we shouldn’t be changing our path on our journey in OUR HappyEverAfter…
    She also talks about Cding and then there is a 3rd way… to be with a man who isn’t wanting marriage…
    I can’t remember how that goes?
    Do any other Sirens’ know what the 3rd way is?

    I believe if we continue to cherish what WE want
    and listen our hearts…
    we are guided to EXACTLY what we want…

    Have you been visualizing what it looks like to
    be with a man who WANTS to be married?
    Visualizing what my Mr. Right looks like
    has helped ME stay strong and on *MY* path.

  145.  #145Kim on April 4, 2016 at 7:31 am

    Miss Stix…in my opinion it is extremely difficult to establish a new/different dynamic when living with a man. It has never worked for me.

    Having been in several long term (5 years) live-together relationships, I found it almost impossible to reverse the status quo of the live-in convenient girlfriend, speech or not. Men respond to actions more than words and it is SO impossible to stick to the words when there is love and lust and whatever else lol – at least I found that. When we say one thing and then do another, there is no reason for them to change.

    Typically, if men’s needs are satisfied by us giving ourselves and they don’t have to change to ‘keep us’, they will not. That includes the good guys.

    My fiance was also not the marrying kind, so I sympathize! It is what he said when I met him. Which is why I always kind of dated others right up until he moved in with me – I loved spending time with him but I knew that he might not change his mind on that. We even split up a couple of times.
    As it happened, he came around all of his own accord and wanting me to himself…he started to talk about marriage, and he never even remembered (!) saying that he wasn’t keen on marriage. Simply blocked it out!! It turned into ‘his idea’. I got a little nervous after he moved in and 8 months passed with no mention of marriage at all…I was ready to call it quits – no regrets – yet he had already been planning and scheming and bought a ring during that period (unbeknown to me).

    It doesn’t suit us to be so into a man if he doesn’t want the same things for the future, for lots of reasons and one being that life is short (and it really is), and that one can not have kids indefinitely, and finding a great guy also gets tougher not easier – and then we have to let a new relationship develop which takes time also. In essence, a partnership means compromise and a common outlook and if that isn’t there, well, it’s not a great relationship (for me anyway).

    I have been there, I am 40 and I will probably be childless by design, but if I had wanted to have a family, I would now be full of regrets to give those men so much of my exclusive time (years!!!!), who never really wanted the same thing as me. I have no regrets but have several girlfriends who do.

    I do agree with Indigo that things have a habit of working themselves out in good time…however, I am not in favor of wasting time with someone who doesn’t want to build a future with me and I think this is where the boredom also comes in. We get bored. I got bored and restless with my guy when I thought he didn’t want the same things as I did, needless to say that’s all gone now as we are really happily planning the future. It’s a very different kind of feeling than being on a ship on the ocean and not knowing where it is sailing to…possibly to nowhere.
    Knowing what I know now, I would get off that ship asap.

  146.  #146Kim on April 4, 2016 at 7:36 am

    143 Azure, YES!! I did think about the third way but honestly found it pretty much impossble to date other men with a live-in bf. Didn’t work.
    I think this is what it means, letting it go and stopping exclusivity and CDing?
    That worked pretty well when not living together…

  147.  #147Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 8:01 am

    Kim darling Kim!!!
    Ohhh… I feel excitement and admiration that you have finished YOUR book!!! BRAVA!!!
    It looks fantastic…
    I will order it!
    Really this sounds sooo fun… I think I will plan this after reading YOUR “how to”
    The photos are so fun and inviting…
    kinda like the book “Wild” only not as Excrutiating!!!
    Yours seems more doable for a woman of my age!! :-))

    Who knows though… start with one week and then go from there!!

  148.  #148Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 8:14 am

    Kim #144
    I agree!!

    It would be almost impossible to be dating others while living with someone…
    BUT – Now (because of the Rori tools)
    *MY* happiness is VERY important to me!!

    Sami Wunder has a woman on her facebook group who
    is doing that very thing…
    She is doing coaching with Sami and has done a lot of the “tool” work and was sick and tired of nothing changing with her live-in bf…
    She set herself up in another room and started dating others…
    She wasn’t expecting any changes
    but – WOW – just like MissStix – he changed drastically!!

    I love what you said – LIFE is short!!!

    You and MoM’s story is a lot like Spirit and mine…
    said he wanted an exclusive relationship…
    But i found out what that meant to him
    rubber banding– disappearing – canceling dates
    me breaking it off several times…

    the last time we came together… **I** started breaking dates (NOT making him a priority)…
    setting MY boundaries and sticking by them!!
    walking away when HE wanted s*x (because *I* was busy)…
    getting VERY bored with his sh*t
    saying NO to him wanting exclusivity (on HIS terms)

    He felt the difference – I was leaning back (because it was important to ME to have a bf who loved, cherished and adored me and treated me like his #1)
    in the mean time I was warm and loving on the outside when he came around…

    I know you can do this MissStix!! We are here for you!
    I know for me, Siren Island has been a Wonderful
    support system to keep me focused on *MY*
    HappyEverAfter –

  149.  #149Kim on April 4, 2016 at 8:40 am

    146 AZUUUUURREEEEE!! Thank you 🙂
    I am in the middle of a frustrating formatting day….it’s the print proof I have but the interior, due to odd and even pages working out different (stuff one never finds out until the printed copy arrives lol) is a nightmare.
    Writing it was a doddle compared to this….eeeek!!!!
    Thank you for your kind encouragement….I needed it today!! I will let you know when it finally is published but hopefully before the end of the month….
    It’s kind of nerve wracking putting yourself out there for judgment, as it were…and exciting at the same time!

  150.  #150Kim on April 4, 2016 at 8:43 am

    by the way, yes absolutely do-able….knowing what I know now about the walk, I would take a few more days and lower the mileage a little but otherwise, I can tell you that anyone with two working legs and a positive attitude can do it. 🙂 <3

  151.  #151Kim on April 4, 2016 at 8:49 am

    One more thing before I go back to formatting h*ll lol, Azure I am indeed impressed how you and Spirit turned out…he has really changed a lot – perhaps he was even a little unavailable when you first dated?
    Quite inspirational how you turned it all around by ‘loving you’.
    I know that some men really can change, and some unfortunately can’t. It seems tough to know who can and who can’t unless we are able to walk away from them and putting ourselves first?
    I do believe that our Mr Right doesn’t let us walk away from him. Whatever it takes. That has been my experience…and I am kind of surprised how my man changed, not just the attitude but even the way he looks now (short hair as opposed to long before, dressing more sharply etc) – none of this was by me saying anything or nagging, it just happened…he changed because he wanted to ‘be better’, ‘look better’ and when I ask for the motivation he will say he wants to become a better person generally but mostly for me <3
    So sweet…

  152.  #152Femininewoman on April 4, 2016 at 8:51 am

    Kim I find a lot of wisdom and inspiration in your words to Ms. Stix. What I would add is that a lot of men turn around at the point where the woman really decides to move on. As long as it is not a ploy to influence him but just a decision she makes for her own happiness.

  153.  #153MissStix on April 4, 2016 at 9:00 am


    Thank you for the wise words. They resonate with me.
    I do crave that special 1 person to approach life with. I am definitely sensation seeking. I don’t shy away from the opportunity to experience almost anything. I see life as an opportunity to experience, grow, learn and create on a level only possible in this exact body.
    I wouldn’t say i’m an “adrenaline junkie” but something akin to that. I feel most present and alive when I feel thrilled. Boredom or stagnancy is the last thing I want to feel.
    That’s not to say I don’t love stillness or quiet. Those thrill me in a different way. Calm energy is beautiful energy too.

    I dig the idea of trusting my higher self…
    I have been doing that more and more recently. I truly thought I had reached that point of doing what needed to be done at the right time when I gave him the speech. I was fully prepared to end the relationship or at the very least the exclusivity. And I did…I totally did!

    Now i’m thinking…Ok. I did do the right thing at the right time. It needed to happen. I just need to let go of whatever outcome came of it. I am here, where I am, where I should be after having done exactly what I should have.

  154.  #154MissStix on April 4, 2016 at 9:23 am

    I love all the ideas ladies, thank you 🙂

    He did come around…He told me he wants to be married now before he’s 40 which is in 2 years. It was textbook. I was ready to move on, he did the 180. Exactly how one might want it to happen.
    I guess my problem is…By then (now) something had changed and i’m no longer feeling it for him.
    I feel guilt and resentment when he is coming towards me. My speech was pure. So pure and without ulterior motive. I wanted to break up and see other people. I still want to see other people. I’m content to let HIM see other people. Yet there is still so much love there. Enough love that i’m kind of sticking around so I don’t cause him heartbreak.
    It’s a feeling i’ve never experienced with a romantic partner so I feel a bit lost.
    I imagine setting myself up in another room and dating other people…And it’s just so harsh! Could I do that to someone who already turned around? No. It’s not the right thing in this situation. It would have been so right if I did it a year ago but I didn’t.

    Maybe I just need to suggest an “open relationship” for a little while 😀 lol

  155.  #155MissStix on April 4, 2016 at 9:37 am

    He basically said he wants me to be happy and if it isn’t with him he will deal with that.
    I want to hold those words close because I know I need to, at the very least, stop trying to protect him.
    That’s a very good start.

  156.  #156Kim on April 4, 2016 at 9:39 am

    Hmmmm…so MissStix, anyone can say anything is going to happen in 2 years…he might mean it but when I got that kinda talk from my guy, a year ago, about how he sees himself married with me, to be honest, looking at the actions – what really convinced me was the ring and him asking me, none of those assurances.
    What would you do if he came with a ring tonight and asked you to marry him?
    It sounds like you would say no?

    That is something I would ask myself…what do I want? Why am I here? What can I do for myself?

  157.  #157Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 11:12 am

    Kim #155
    GREAT questions…
    Spirit has asked me to marry him again (3rd time)
    this time it feels real…
    BUT I’m NOT ready…
    I have noticed
    I feel over stimulated SOOO easily– with too much time together…
    and OUR interaction when $$ comes into the picture…
    He is pretty much VERY careful that HE in NOT giving too much… and he makes much more money than I do…
    He wants it to be VERY even or me giving MORE…
    I am watching to see how this plays out…
    I am seeing what MY story is –around what *I* deserve
    We have used MY car for the past 2 years to go on our dates (his is older and filled with his sales stuff – he says)
    and NOT once has he put gas in it…
    Sirens, any ideas on how to approach this?

    I keep thinking he will “feel inspired”
    but it hasn’t happened yet!

    I even let him use it when his was in the shop!

    I knew he is VERY frugal (to the point of stingy) and this was/is one of my concerns.
    Love to hear from others on this topic…

  158.  #158MissStix on April 4, 2016 at 11:18 am

    Kim, if he asked I would say no. He asked the same question “if I asked you to marry me right now would you say yes?” And I told him I would not. I think if I said I would say yes we would be engaged right now but I can’t know for sure because he didn’t specify. All I know is he was not keen on losing me and said he would do anything to see me happy again.

  159.  #159MissStix on April 4, 2016 at 11:23 am


    Interesting you say that because mine has no drivers license at all. To be fair he does not ask me to drive him anywhere. When he takes me on a date (rarely but it happens…he did take me out yesterday) we usually walk. We walked yesterday. He did everything from planning to paying etc but I do drive for things like mutual errands. Grocery shopping etc.
    I feel slightly bothered by his lack of DL but not enough that I focus on it. Although if he went out and got it that might be something that would turn me on lol 🙂

  160.  #160Kim on April 4, 2016 at 11:48 am

    Oh Azure….yikes…a stingy man would trigger me crazy. One of my long term relationships made three times as much as me and we split everything 50/50 which meant he still had plenty of money to play with and I had practically NONE. He practically never took me out..also this we split, the European way. This in itself was not a problem for me then, but when we split up, he had a girlfriend who had no real job and she lived in ‘our ex-home’ and did not pay a penny for anything (whereas before we had split everything, mortgage and bills etc.) …he practically gained a dependant..and they lived happily ever after, in fact I don’t think she ever worked lol.
    He does make really good money so whatever.
    I was furious when I first found out though, because I had set back my own career advancement and been doing all the housework, cooking etc so he could study and make yet more money. He is a millionaire now. lol.
    I swore then, that this would never happen to me again. I overfunctioned, was an unpaid housemaid etc.
    When I first met my fiance, he gave a lecture on how he thinks it is much better when couples split everything 50/50. I think it was on the same day he announced that marriage is not for him (date 2). lol. I kind of agreed with him…yet I thought ‘this guy is not for me, I will never be with a stingy man EVER again’.
    Well, my man is very frugal – I am also – but he is probably more so. However, when it comes to me, he pays for all our dates, he pays for our groceries also and lots of other things, while he benefits from the reduced rent he has living with me.
    He has made very generous gifts. He wouldn’t entertain me paying for anything – this might change when I have a better income, I don’t know. He is more frugal with himself than he is with me, and I must be honest that it has impressed me and is another thing why I feel good about marrying him. He spends his bonus from work on improving my condo, and although I want to keep the condo in my name and separate when we are married, and I have said I want to pay him back, he said he doesn’t care…it’s a lot of money we are talking about…
    I can not imagine being with a stingy man again as it really did build up a huge amount of resentment inside of me over the years.
    I have also no real advice to offer on how to stop it, because I honestly believe it is a case of character and also men doing what they can get away with and difficult if the boundaries are not set in the beginning – which is so hard to do.
    I don’t know…in the end you will have to talk about it I suppose but I hear you – it would feel so cringey. And forcing him to contribute by leaving an empty tank might not be possible and anyway, it is also no long term solution.

  161.  #161Indigo on April 4, 2016 at 11:56 am

    Love To Me 139,

    Love the new name, by the way 🙂

    When I said the decision would be made for me, I don’t mean literally someone else coming along and deciding, I mean circumstances would dictate what had to happen.

  162.  #162Indigo on April 4, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Yeah, I’m afraid since growing up with a dad who never spent any money on us and was extremely stingy, it’s not something I’ve ever been able to tolerate, or something I’ve ever even attracted in a man.

    I suppose it depends on what your own triggers are around this. To what extent it bothers you, and to what extent you feel accepting of it. Also, whether you think it could change by your bringing it up with him.

    You could always just try going very feminine here, ie. just not offering your car to be used and see what other alternatives he comes up with. This is what I would do. I would also absolutely speak up if I didn’t have the money available to go to a particular place and pay my share. I’d say something like “Gosh, I think that’s a little bit beyond my budget at the moment” or something, and let him take it from there.

  163.  #163Femininewoman on April 4, 2016 at 12:43 pm

    Kim whatever happened to that guy you were writing about when you first came on this board?

  164.  #164Kim on April 4, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    Oh FW he is still around…still single..he was still contacting me on and off but I stopped responding a while ago.

  165.  #165Femininewoman on April 4, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Mr P. Right?

    His life must really be boring.

  166.  #166Millie on April 4, 2016 at 1:31 pm

    Zara–thank you! I wanted to ask her some questions, but I feel really scared to do so. I would probably end up crying and I don’t want to do that on the radio! On the end of the show a girl called in who was 29, the same age as me. She did some masculine energy thing with her boyfriend and they were taking a break and he was coming back into contact. Pat Allen told her she was headed towards spinsterhood if she didn’t get her act together! I didn’t think what the girl did was really that terrible… And it made me feel really sick to my stomach to hear Pat telling this girl that she only has like three years left of “value” in regards to childbirth. It makes me feel like a mess…

    That feeling of panic is saying I should be online dating again. Even though I don’t like it. It feels like trying. I don’t know.

    Liquid light- your date with K sounded wonderful! Isn’t it wonderful to have fathers we can share our experiences with who can give sound advice. Pat Allen says something similar about how no one is really worth marrying and if they are 51% worthy that is good.

  167.  #167Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    Liquid Light… #129
    Ohhh… sounds sooo emotionally intimate to share your deep thoughts with K…

    I keep thinking I want to start sharing my Siren journey with Spirit in a way that he could understand…
    hasn’t happened yet… but I imagine there being such a lovely connection when I do this.

    and how nice to have a Dad who you can talk to!!
    You and Millie had some really intimate father-daughter moments.
    Thank you for sharing them here on Siren Island!

  168.  #168Beloved on April 4, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    I’m learning so much from y’all, I appreciate your sharing so much!

    When I talked to LankyCD last week, he told me we couldn’t meet in the evening because he was having friends over.
    I felt very pouty and went silent, he changed the subject but all weekend I sank into that ache in my heart.
    Over and over again, bringing my attention from him and back to my body and breath. I could feel something rising to the surface and it took until late last night to release. Memories of an old heartbreak, an old betrayal washed over me, along with waves of cleansing tears. This morning more emotional pain over all kinds of stuff came and went with more tears. I felt my heart open to a yawning, aching chasm of deep, deep need.
    All morning, I kept up the practice, mind off of him back on my body and breath, until I forgot about him.
    I got a text from him later and actually felt surprised because I had so totally forgotten about him!
    And you know what? I didn’t really feel much of anything. I realized, I don’t want to not br able to visit the house of someone I’m dating. That isn’t even friendship, if his other friends can visit but not me.
    I feel resolved and at peace for the moment.

  169.  #169Liquid Light on April 4, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    Thank you Millie and Azure! It feels so wonderful to read your kind words!

    Millie, thanks for reminding me about Pat Allen’s notion of a man being 51% worthy. Yes, I love that. So far, K is definitely 51% worthy. He’s just treating me great! I mentioned that there was a fun event happening on Thursday. The next thing I knew he cleared his schedule and bought tickets for the event! So sweet! He’s also helping me find a job. He knows someone at a company I’m very interested in and he went out his way to track down her email and contacted her on my behalf!

    Yes, it so nice to have a supportive father…Cheers to dads and all of their support and wonderful advice! They are such smart and wise beings!

  170.  #170Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    Ahhh… so beautiful how the focus on You
    opened the loving way to YOUR heart…
    and easily letting go of what isn’t working
    for you!
    and kept you leaning back!!
    love this.!

  171.  #171Azure Blu on April 4, 2016 at 3:00 pm

    Liquid Light #169
    K is really sounding masculine!
    and you are sounding VERY sireny!!
    appreciating, receiving…
    enthusiastic… so very feminine!

  172.  #172Kim on April 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    Yes FW!
    I can’t tell you how happy I am that this didn’t work out. Yes, he was exciting but I wouldn’t dream of exchanging a volatile and unavailable man with what I have now….that is one lesson I have now learnt that can never be unlearnt!
    In fact, I would a hundred times rather be alone than with someone like that…no idea why I punished myself with him, must have been a pretty bad time in my life. Ugh!

  173.  #173April Rose on April 4, 2016 at 3:46 pm


    I want to thank you for opening up my understanding.
    There are two things in particular that you have clarified for me in your postings to Millie.

    Firstly about controlling. It has been such a habit with me to say “don’t do this” or “don’t do that”, instead of allowing a man’s entitlement to do whatever he wants. And for me to simply respond by expressing my feelings and/or walking away if necessary.

    Secondly what you wrote about boundaries. This particularly speaks to me
    “When I trust my boundaries, I feel them painful when I am about to agree to something not in alignment with my cells. ”
    And this
    ” People do their best to get what they want which seldom participates to my peace, so no matter who I am dating, I keep self centered on keeping my peace.”

    I fall weak to this when a man comes on strong. I love to feel desired. And my body craves sexual intimacy. How to navigate this when I am unsure that the man is going to be my forever man (and like you say, how could I know within six months).
    My pattern has been to become intimate, and to become attached. While at the same time feeling that he is not ‘the one’.
    And that makes me feel angry towards HIM!

    So… ? Do I take a lover, with the knowledge that I find it difficult to extract myself.

    I don’t want to waste time with the wrong ones.

    I want to hold out on physical intimacy until my forever partner comes along. Yet I’m not sure this is practical.
    Still learning to navigate this one.

  174.  #174Liquid Light on April 4, 2016 at 3:51 pm

    Thanks Azure 170 🙂

  175.  #175April Rose on April 4, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I’m curious as to how you felt opening up your deeper personal stuff to the man you are dating. Did it feel good at all? How did he respond to you?

    I love meaningful conversations. I can’t do superficial! I love to feel that someone is interested in my depth. Otherwise I feel starved somehow. I want to be able to engage all parts of my character and personality in my forever partnership.

  176.  #176LoveToMe on April 4, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    Indigo – Wow. I only just read what you wrote in #66. How wonderful and beautiful. That makes me feel so soft and warm and safe and loved. Yes, my heart (and mind and body) are pointing in that direction. Or at least looking for the path in that direction. Wanting to face that direction. It’s heartening and comforting to know you’ve found it and that it exists.

    I think of another friend of mine, who I would call a “siren,” although she’s most likely never heard of Rori or the blog. She met her now-husband on OK Cupid, and he also did not want to sleep with her until they were committed and in a relationship.

    The interesting thing I notice about your story and hers is that in both cases, it’s the guys making that decision. Which is why it is so nice for us. And when they don’t (that is, all the other guys), then we have to make that decision, and we have to fight to hold our boundaries against their desires. It feels like so much WORK. And we are not supposed to do “work” in relationships – at least not like that. It’s tiring.

    I guess I just didn’t want to have to fight, or to hold my boundaries with this guy, too. I could have said that I wanted to wait until we were in a relationship, or something like that. But, to be very honest, that would have felt so much better coming from him, if he had said it. That really would have given me even more emotional safety than I thought I had. Which is why I guess I came out of the experience with the sense that he was selfish and acting selfishly. Because he was. And that much is clear to me. Can I forgive him for that? Sure. I guess I can.

    I still miss my friend. But as far as relationships, go – I am leaning more an more towards him not really being the one and not being right for me. And that feels accurate, as far as my heart is concerned.

    Thanks, Indigo! 🙂

    ~formerly Tereana

  177.  #177Millie on April 4, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    April rose 172-

    I think about this too– Dating without sex while you get to know someone, but at the same time being a highly sexually person. I have been thinking the same thing, taking a lover…someone who I don’t have feelings for and don’t see as husband material, but who is still good to me. While at the same time, circular dating men who could be the forever man and not sleeping with them until the time is truly right. I would like to try this… A coworker of mine who is happily married said that when she met her future husband she had a feeling about him and they dated for three months without s*x. She slept with other men during that time and he knew she did, but stuck around anyway. Even after they slept together she said she did not become exclusive until they got engaged. Wow! What a strong siren she is!

  178.  #178Indigo on April 4, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    Tereana 175,

    I agree completely with what you’ve said here.

    I also don’t want to do “work” in a relationship (or anywhere else that doesn’t feel in alignment with where my energy is taking me) or fight to hold my boundaries… I have been with guys like this… no thank you. Guys who would just steamroller me with their sexual energy – they were not trying to hurt me, they were just not thinking of me. I’m sorry to say I was with a guy like this towards the end of last year. He literally didn’t even give me a chance to speak because he was too busy being physically aggressive. He was not a bad guy, and I wondered and pined a bit after him when it ended. But honestly no, I would never be with someone again who was so oblivious, so absolutely unconscious of me and my needs.

    Can I forgive these guys? Of course I can, like you. I was a willing participant and I need to own that and take responsibility for it. I also get to take ownership of the learning I gained through it all. They exponentially increased my understanding of men, and of myself in relation to men. I went to a very sheltered private girls’ school growing up, and my two brothers were raised to be the nicest, kindest, gentlest guys you’ve ever met. So this whole world of men out there was new to me. I was very naive.

    It took me years and years to see that even guys who were “nice guys” – good guys who might genuinely like me, take me out to dinner, seem stable and solid overall, guys who would make great friends – were not necessarily the right guys for me to let into my heart.

    There’s absolutely no shame in the learning process. We do what we can with what we know at the time. And I also think you’ve got to resist the thinking that because it’s failed with a bunch of guys that there is no point to keep on trying, or that there are no guys out there who are right for you. For me I think it’s more like looking at a kaleidoscope through a lens, and with each experience you twist the lens a little to see more clearly. And you see what’s right for you and what isn’t. And once you “see” it, you can never go back to the old stuff.

    For example, I have learnt beyond any shadow of a doubt that loyalty is the most important quality to me in a man. A man who has my back and is loyal to my wellbeing. I could never again be with someone who made me feel badly about being myself. This is actually very hard to put into words. But I see so many of my past relationships through this lens now. They were fine guys, but they were selfish really on some fundamental level. And that just doesn’t work for me.

    I wish love and happiness for you, Love To Me (Tereana) <3

  179.  #179Zara on April 5, 2016 at 5:17 am

    ***** 172: April Rose says:
    I fall weak to this when a man comes on strong. I love to feel desired. And my body craves sexual intimacy. How to navigate this when I am unsure that the man is going to be my forever man (and like you say, how could I know within six months).
    My pattern has been to become intimate, and to become attached. While at the same time feeling that he is not ‘the one’.
    And that makes me feel angry towards HIM!
    So… ? Do I take a lover, with the knowledge that I find it difficult to extract myself.
    I don’t want to waste time with the wrong ones. *****

    It’s up to you to make that choice. 100% up to you. Like everything else on this blog. We can only clarify words and concepts, put light on behaviours, but we can not say which behaviour is best for you. We can say what a behaviour will most probably attract in your life, but we can not say if you should want it or not. The part about wanting is all yours.

    My understanding of sex and dating, up to where I am at now, is that you do have to make a choice if what you want is marriage/commitment. You can’t let lust drive you into bed before commitment and at the same time want to be in a committed relationship within the year.

    And this is exactly the same as what you wrote in post 172. You have noticed this in your own life experience. And you have noticed letting lust drive your behaviour has not worked for you to attract and keep “the one”. There is not much else I can add to your words. Now is the time to make a choice. Keep cutting out of the same pattern to find out the dress still does not fit, or dare drawing a new pattern and see how it fits. Life has to be experienced before we know what works and what does not. Words are good at putting lights on our path in life but we still have to live life in order to experience the enlightened path. There is no way out of it.

    This said, Universe might send your way a guy who wants to stick with you no matter what and you with him, and none of the above will matter. Magic does happen. Each week, or almost, the lottery is won by someone. Winning the lottery is therefore “possible”. But what I am saying is that in the mean time, in case I don’t win the lottery, I keep wise how I handle my money. In the dating world, it means I don’t spend around my energy, time and health hoping I will all get it back the day I magically meet “the one”. I keep self centred, I make a choice on how to invest my worth in such a way it comes back with interests more likely than if I was to wait for the lottery jack pot.


  180.  #180Indigo on April 5, 2016 at 6:32 am

    April Rose 172,

    Personally I feel the answer to your conundrum, and certainly what is working for me is, – if you feel a man is worth getting to know, someone potentially worthwhile whom you might want to pursue a relationship with, hold out a little longer. Take your time to actually get to know him without sex – getting to know I feel is the operative phrase here – talking, seeing who this man is, going on dates, doing fun activities. All whilst holding your cards closer to your chest.

    Sex is chemically proven to make us attached to men as women. And this makes not investing in them and not getting all tangled up in attachment much harder. So I say, don’t rush it with a man you really like. Even when you do have sex finally, don’t feel pressured to have sex every time you see each other. Don’t feel too pressured to go too fast. Get to know him while still keeping your own life going. That way you can let whatever it is grow organically and slowly. If he turns out not to be right for you, there doesn’t need to be that painful ripping.

    I also find that doing it this way my desire to control or “coach” him in any way reduces to almost nothing. When I am just getting to know him and observe him, that is all I’m doing. The need to coach or control him comes from fear that he will not live up to his end of the bargain once we have already invested our hopes and expectations in him. I’ve noticed this happens when I agree to exclusivity too quickly. It is so much more enjoyable when I just have a “we’ll see” attitude in my mind.

    On that note, I’d like to throw it out there to the sirens that you may want to think twice about telling your friends and family all about your new man, posting on Facebook etc. This is a form of investing too much too quickly, and it increases the emotional upheaval if things with the man don’t work out.

    Also, psychological research has shown that telling people about our goals makes it less likely that we will accomplish them. It widens the gap between our intention and our behaviour. Hence I believe, if your friends and family believe you are already in a committed relationship with him, it makes you believe it too on some level, and this widens the gap between your expectations and where you are actually are with him in reality. Of course it’s normal to be excited about a new man and to want to tell all your friends about him, but I believe this is something to keep in mind.

  181.  #181Azure Blu on April 5, 2016 at 6:44 am

    Indigo #161
    Thank you for these words of wisdom!
    I too was raised with a VERY stingy Mom-(I’m sure she thought of it as frugal)-
    who hardly gave anything to anyone (emotionally also) and then withdrew what little she did give when she got mad at you – which was MOST of the time!

    i’m sorry if I missrepresented Spirit
    He DOES take me out to nice restaurants often – every week
    as I have learned from the Rori tools
    I sit back and let him pay
    also he brought over a lovely bouquet of flowers on Sunday!! The first he’s brought me
    I excitedly received this lovely gift from him!!!

    He does bring food over to my house alllll the time.
    snacks and meals
    I don’t know…
    I guess I’m used to much MORE generosity
    Ticket buying to BIG events
    The man driving everywhere to make sure
    i dont’ go over my miles (I lease my car)

    He said that I needed new pillows (He was soooo right!!!)
    other bf would have gone out an bought 8 NEW pillows…
    I waited… nothing happened-
    I Wanted new pillows for a while
    and now I could afford to buy them
    so I bought them…
    He said I needed a humidifier…
    we never got one=
    I wasnt going to be masculine about that.
    He had said he would buy one…

    Lots of things other bf had been Sooo generous about
    that he just scims along
    It has been more noticable since we spend more time at my house…

    What Is *MY* part in this?
    Sometimes I need to just ask him !!!
    and then
    and do some Byron Katie _”The Work”

  182.  #182Azure Blu on April 5, 2016 at 7:02 am

    Kim #159
    Thank you darling for sharing with me your wonderful insights.

    I hope I haven’t missrepresented Spirit
    I shared in my reply to Indigo #180… that because of the Rori tools I no longer pay for dinners out (I had changed this before Spirit) and Spirit does like to take me out to dinner often and bring over food, wine etc. often also!!

    I do make us some dinners… I try and notice if the energy starts shifting when I’m DOING too much…

    Yeah… I have determined that I want to bring up the
    money talk soon..
    He has been talking (several times) about moving in.
    I have archived a lovely discussion we had
    here on Siren Island
    about how to approach the money talk
    and what would look good to each of us financially (a GREAT outline of several senarios of how it COULD look) when we move in together and marry….

    It would be so smart to talk about it NOW
    while we are both still comfortably in our own places.

  183.  #183Azure Blu on April 5, 2016 at 8:14 am

    After reading all that I wrote about what Spirit
    DOES do…
    As I have leaned back (the last 2 years)
    and let him lead
    and let him give… receiving and appreciating
    HIS generosity has grown…
    especially now that we ARE exclusive

    Maybe this is my nit picking to keep some distance as the emotional intimacy gets MORE intense

  184.  #184Tee on April 5, 2016 at 9:47 am

    #142 Thank you for remembering Azure Blue….yes, some things are very difficult for me regarding Isiah because I did lose a baby. Everything was fine when I got home & E couldn’t wait to hear all about it

    I think I’ve been in Girl Mode too long.
    I’m frustrated with this job…or at least something feels off & I can’t put my finger on it

  185.  #185Indigo on April 5, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Without wanting to get too advicey on you, having read all that you’ve written now about Spirit’s giving I would highly recommend that you let this go.

    It seems as though he gives you a lot, but it just isn’t quite as much as you’re used to. I really try to let this go when it comes to men, as long as they aren’t actually stingy. Giving comes from the heart and is very personal, so I always feel it’s best to let people give what they want to give. This is of course just my feeling.

  186.  #186Azure Blu on April 5, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    Indigo #184
    Not preachy AT All!!! :-))
    Thank you sooo much for taking the time to consider my question!!

    Yeah. I think you are so right!!!
    After re reading what I wrote about ALL that Spirit does Do…
    I can see it looks VERY generous and romantic!!
    I need to LET GO!!!

    He actually Didn’t have a job for a year or more
    and is just NOW making good money! (in the last 3 months!)

    I’m sure some of this is, like you said…
    I’m used to VERY generous men.

    AND some of this is probably triggers from my Mom!!
    When I’m pointing a finger at someone
    Three of them are pointing back to me!!

  187.  #187Kim on April 5, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    You’ve got this Azure!
    And yes, every man is different..,sometimes the little things actually mean more than anything else.
    Most of the time it isn’t even about money and I used to get triggered too – I have been with some very generous and also very stingy men – extremes.
    Sometimes men are big on acts of service too – I always appreciate it when a man offers a helping hand to fix things and that sort of thing. Maybe Spirit makes up in other ways. Like you said though, definitely a good idea to get it out into the open before moving together…

  188.  #188Dixie on April 5, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    Kim, Azure, and Indigo

    Your words today feel so inspiring to me! It was exactly what I needed to hear…

    Kim, I love what you said here: ” do believe that our Mr Right doesn’t let us walk away from him. Whatever it takes.” Two things – I am noticing this so clearly now. I pulled back after he mentioned Forever, just my own breathing space perhaps, and he has come closer in an amazingly tender way.

    And Indigo, from the last thread, thank you for the reminder to take things slow. It has been feeling funny at time lately – as if I want to pull way back to slow things down. Your suggestion to “leave space” was so good – D is setting the pace and I even share with him how good it felt that he was leading the relationship. I finally understand what it means to let him lead, and that we get to decide how and when we respond. Such a difference.

    Azure, I am so relieved that you said that you turned down Spirit’s initial proposal. Ever since D mentioned forever, so many NEW anxieties and fears have popped up, so many new feelings sort of got churned up. He’s being really loving and sweet and I’m trying to stay appreciative of all the ways he shows that he cares, and share those feelings with him. But I’ve noticed that there are so many things that I need to come to terms with – how much I LOVE my own space, how scared I am to lose this autonomy, and really, how worried I am that these loving feelings will evaporate.

    Breathe, breathe, breathe.

    Anyhow, being here always leaves me feeling so inspired, just because I get to see more opportunities for my own growth…

  189.  #189Dixie on April 5, 2016 at 6:16 pm

    We haven’t talked about money yet, and I wonder if its because I make significantly more right now? I don’t know. I don’t like to worry in my head and create scenarios that are based on my imaginings.

    On a side note – after a man mentioned Forever, has anyone still CDed? I think I know the answer, lol!

  190.  #190LoveToMe on April 5, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    Millie (38) – I also love the flipping around of that statement: “You can’t say the right thing to the wrong guy.” It takes a LOT of the pressure off. I can’t take the credit for it, though : ) I have to hand that one to EMK. And I’m not even sure if he made it up, but that’s where I read it first, maybe in one of his emails. I thought it was so spot on.

  191.  #191LoveToMe on April 5, 2016 at 7:43 pm

    Azure Blu –

    I also wanted to say that I re-read the first part of your post in #72. I appreciate hearing that so much. Sometimes it feels hard, these rocky places, where you feel alone and as if things aren’t “working out.” But then it’s like the open-the-door tool, where you just give in to the unknown. There are things that I think, and make up stories to fill in those blanks that I don’t know. And lately I’ve caught myself doing it, and realized that it’s because I feel so insecure with the not-knowing that I just NEED to know something, and telling myself the story gives me the ILLUSION that I know what’s going on on the other side of that blank wall. But it doesn’t mean my story is right. It’s just my brain that accepts it as “true.”

    This is a basic principal of art, and of magic, and of how brains fundamentally work. It’s not wrong or bad. It’s just that I am noticing that I do it. And noticing that I do it means that I can assess my functioning differently.

    And, back to your point, Azure – it’s comforting to know that it was this way for you with your guy. I’ve known a few friends now, too, who have had times with their partners where he had to go off and do his thing alone-times for a while. And then he came back, and now they are together, stronger than ever (I am thinking of two in particular).

    I forget sometimes that being in a REAL relationship (i.e. the kind I want) doesn’t mean that everything is smooth sailing all the time. It just means you have someone in the boat with you during a storm.

    And, on the CD front….there is this man at the dance studio where I teach. During the show this past weekend, he starting flirting with me, hard. He was chatting with me, chatting with my dancers. He saw me tonight, and talked to me again. He said he wanted to know when I was free so he could take me out. I wasn’t sure, so I told him to send me a message. Then he said, right to me, “I like you. I want to take care of you.” Just thinking of it feels so yummy. I do not know this guy. He does not know me. It was just such a clear, straightforward thought. I really appreciated it. It made me feel good 🙂

  192.  #192Dixie on April 5, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    Sirens: advice?

    The oldCD from 2011 asked if I am now married. (He knows that I am divorced).

    Please don’t laugh but I’m flummoxed. I don’t know how to say that I’m not married without feeling badly about NOT being married.


  193.  #193Millie on April 5, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    Azure– that is so amazing that Spirit has asked you to marry him three times!!! And being the amazing siren you are, have not lost sight of YOU and how you FEEL about it!!!

  194.  #194Millie on April 5, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    I decided to go online dating again. This time I am viewing it only as practice, without the pressure of wondering if “the one” is on there. He will find ME, but practicing will only bring me closer. I decided also to take a different approach so I do not get overwhelmed. My new boundaries are that I only respond to messages when I am home at the end of the workday and not after 10pm. When I review the messages, I will delete anyone that I don’t feel an initial interest in or who does not meet what I know feels good to me. For example, a man who has nothing written on his profile…or who I don’t feel attracted to by photo, or who lives too far away….you get the idea. Deleting these right away will keep my inbox limited to only men I am interested in who continue to message me. I think having a time frame where I answer messages is important, or else I am pulled from being in the present to feel compelled to reply…like while I’m working. At work, I’m working. I’m also paying more attention to my replies, using feeling messages, asking them a question, and keeping it short and sweet. Thinking of all of this as practice will really help me.

  195.  #195Millie on April 5, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    I think I’m always going to have some feelings for M. Everyone can tell me what a D-bag he is, my family can tell me he’s evil, that they would never accept him into our family, all my friends can tell me he is an a*hole, I myself can feel bad about our interactions, and STILL, there’s a little piece of him that remains alive in me. A little golden nugget, a small piece that I wonder how long it will take for it to completely dissipate…after one year of space. Sometimes I wonder if this is nature’s way, nature’s way of match-making. Telling me not to 100% give up on this person….but he gave up. He gave it all up. I don’t know, all I know is there’s a nugget of feelings there and I’m not “doing” anything about it. It’s just there.

  196.  #196Millie on April 5, 2016 at 9:18 pm

    Oh no, my comment is in moderation– I think I know why. Reposting without the E word.

    I think I’m always going to have some feelings for M. Everyone can tell me what a D-bag he is, my family can tell me he’s awful, that they would never accept him into our family, all my friends can tell me he is an a*hole, I myself can feel bad about our interactions, and STILL, there’s a little piece of him that remains alive in me. A little golden nugget, a small piece that I wonder how long it will take for it to completely dissipate…after one year of space. Sometimes I wonder if this is nature’s way, nature’s way of match-making. Telling me not to 100% give up on this person….but he gave up. He gave it all up. I don’t know, all I know is there’s a nugget of feelings there and I’m not “doing” anything about it. It’s just there.

  197.  #197Indigo on April 6, 2016 at 2:48 am


    Do you *want* to tell him about your marital status?

    If there is one thing I’ve learnt, it is that you do not need to give people information about your life that you do not want to give.

  198.  #198Indigo on April 6, 2016 at 2:57 am

    Millie 194,

    Re: that little golden nugget. It is the same with me. Once I’ve loved someone and they’re resided in my heart, it doesn’t ever go away. People can talk about giving something time and getting over someone till the cows come home. I don’t care. I know that I will care about that person, about their wellbeing, and will have a certain loyalty to them till the day I die. I will never feel no emotion towards them. I will always love them in a way. I am fine with that.

    I think what has happened to me instead is that I have let go of this illogical need to completely stop loving someone before I decide to move on. I just put my feelings in a beautiful little treasure box and bury them in my heart somewhere.

    And to my great surprise, I have loved again. A man comes along who is even more right for me, who adores me, and I find myself loving him even more than the previous man, so my feelings for the previous man don’t matter so much. The end result is that you have a heart full of love, and I think that’s quite a beautiful thing.

  199.  #199Victoria on April 6, 2016 at 5:03 am

    Millie, Indigo
    I know it is really hard to let go of a man we crave, no matter whether people say he is a douche.
    For me, I have always thought that it is my hurt ego that does not want to accept the fact that someone did not like me as much as I liked him (unbelievable, isn’t it?). With the men who have rejected me/left me, even if it was ages ago, I know my little hurt ego still hopes that someday the tables will turn. I wish it was easier to just let go and forget.

  200.  #200Beloved on April 6, 2016 at 6:34 am

    Indigo – I’ve been holding on to your words about better and better men coming along like a beacon in a storm. Azure Blu as well, thank you for seeing and reflecting that I eas coming home to my own heart, I held to that as well through a lot of panicky feelings l. 🙂

    I also held on to my “don’t want” the same way. In the fludh of all the emotions and chemistry, that clarity guided me. I don’t want to be anyone’s mistress. Pure and simple. I felt SO good with LankyCD and it felt so difficult to resist but now that I’m out of it, it feels very clear what a raw deal I was getting. Him getting his needs met, living with his wifr and who really knows ehat the real story is there, she’s got a man around the house doing husband stuff, and I’ve got a handful of lust and hurt feelings.
    It took all of my will to rent a new place in a completely different part of town yesterday. My emotional self did NOT want to move further away grom him, and in the light of day I feel so grateful to myself.

  201.  #201Femininewoman on April 6, 2016 at 7:01 am

    Dixie my daughter tells me she tells guys “I’m as single as a slice of Kraft American cheese”.

    My point is assume he means the best and find a way to make fun of it

  202.  #202Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 8:33 am

    Ahhh… most AMAZING Sirens!!!
    there is sooo much Wisdom, growth, love and
    Authentic vulnerability
    through this entire post!!!
    Thank you for warmly embracing me and each other on Siren Island!!!

    I was reading thru all that has been written on this thread
    and came across something Millie wrote that was such a great reminder for me today…
    i thought I’d share it again….

    >Millie wrote<
    One thing my coach brought up to me that sounds so simple…
    The quickest way to attract the love we want
    into our lives is to get happy.

    Be the highest version of ourselves.

    I was thinking that one new thought pattern I want to have
    is taking the simplest route to happiness.
    Embracing simplicity.
    When I feel bad,
    I want to ask myself what would make me feel happier right now?
    The smallest thing…
    If I’m at home and upset,
    maybe it is a simple thing of making a cup of tea
    that would take that negative feeling up
    just a baby step, then notice…
    and once I did that
    take another little step,
    oh maybe listening to my favorite song right now would feel good.
    And go up from there.
    I think sometimes I get too caught up in the distance of what would make me happy
    (a relationship)
    and feeling so far from it makes happiness unattainable at times.
    In reality it is baby steps
    as many coaches have said including Rori.
    I want to take the simplest route now.
    If I don’t like where I’m standing, move.

    I think making small decisions like this will help me and build more trust in myself to be able to get out of negative soup.
    The shortest path from A to B.
    Letting go of all of the thoughts surrounding a situation that complicate it beyond necessary.
    I want to think as little as possible,
    take things day by day,
    moment by moment,
    navigating my happiness in each moment.
    That’s my goal. Simplicity."

  203.  #203Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 8:37 am

    Bloved #198
    Ohhhh… changing your home…
    huggs to you lovely siren,

    and confetti, champaign all around for standing up
    for YOU!! and NOT getting caught with a man
    who Doesn;t deserve YOUR Bright, shinny beautiful heart!!!
    Building Trust with YOURSELF!!!

  204.  #204Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 8:42 am

    Millie #194
    Wow.. you should write a blog about the does and don’ts of Online dating…
    These are all the things I did the last time I was online…
    and I was Far less stressed and OVERwhelmed by the amount of contacts…
    I am LOVING YOUR approach…
    Practice, Practice… actually makes the dating MORE fun!!
    I would think… “ohhh… what will I learn about me, about men, this time?”
    of course, it was sometimes stressful… but I believe in the process!
    and it worked for ME!!

  205.  #205Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 8:45 am

    Dixie #187
    I have noticed me feeling these things also.
    you wrote:
    “But I’ve noticed that there are so many things that
    I need to come to terms with –
    how much I LOVE my own space,
    how scared I am to lose this autonomy,
    and really,
    how worried I am that these loving feelings will evaporate.

  206.  #206Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 8:56 am

    Millie #192
    Thank you for that lovely warm
    pat on the back!! :-))

    When the man (Spirit) I lusted after, pinned for, felt he was the ONLY man I could live the rest of my life with…
    Started coming toward me… persueing me, Wanting to be with ONLY me… (of course I had been leaning way back)
    MY fear of intimacy, my need for lots of space,
    questioning-how warm CAN i be?
    All this came flooding out, Now!

    BUT It feels sooo amazing to have him being soo
    masculine and WANTING to be with ME (almost MORE)
    than I can handle being with him…

    On Sunday morning – I got up first (had to work) and brought him coffee in bed… he pulled me close and said…
    ‘Can you believe how wonderful this is?!!!”
    “I’m NOT scared… are you?”
    HE is sooo romantic… Ahhhh…. siggggghhhhh

  207.  #207Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 9:02 am

    Kim #186
    Thanks darling…
    Yes, I see what you’re saying…
    I think for Spirit acts of Service ARE really important!!
    He always points out… did you see how clean the kitchen is? Did you see I took out the recycle and garbage? Wasnt’ the salad I made delicious?
    I do receive and verbalize my appreciation for these acts… But I want to put more importance on them as
    he really does feel they are acts of LOVE!!

  208.  #208Azure Blu on April 6, 2016 at 9:07 am

    Tee #183
    Does that mean you got the job?
    Congratulations… right? :-))
    I know it is VERY stressful in the beginning with
    all jobs…
    I know for me…it’s always easier to find a job you love more… While you have a job.
    So glad you are feeling all the support that E is trying to give to you!

  209.  #209Starla on April 6, 2016 at 11:46 am

    Hi ladies,
    It’s been a few weeks since I really posted much. I wanted to take a little break from seeking support and feedback outside of myself. I have so many tools at my disposal at this point that outside feedback isn’t actually a necessity! And yet I was so hooked on it that I felt like I would fail miserably without it. That’s when I knew it was time to try trusting myself for a while.

    It has been GREAT! Things are going really well with my boyfriend and we are both very happy in our relationship these days. I feel way more secure and less anxious than ever. I feel like I can be myself, which is something that escaped me almost constantly.

    My own self care needs some tending to. This is nothing new. My relationship is in order but I catch myself having unconfident dialog in my head. I feel unattractive a lot of the time. Something for me to work on.

  210.  #210Indigo on April 6, 2016 at 1:02 pm

    Starla, yay!

    I have been what I call “keeping my own counsel” for a while now.

    Things are going wonderfully with my man <3

    I recently have the mantra "I'll do what I need to do, and for the rest I will not stress. I will not waste unnecessary energy on worry."

  211.  #211Tee on April 6, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    #207 Glad to see you back Starla
    I totally know what you mean about being addicted to outside feedback ☺

  212.  #212Tee on April 6, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    #206 Yup, I have the job Azure Blue!
    Not sure how permanent it is though. This is a friend of my aunts who needs help at his mom with filing & data entry.
    I’ve done 2 days so far & it’s not too bad.

    I still have 2 other opportunities out there that I applied for so I guess I’m still open to other things.

    And yes, it does seem easier to find a job when you have one. This is part of why I took this “job”….thinking maybe it’ll open up that space for me

    I’d make some money of course, break the monotony, give E some space to miss me & to bond more with Isiah etc etc

    It works for now, something to do

  213.  #213sophie on April 6, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    without reading back through I’m catching up a little bit…

    Azure Blu – Spirit??!!! Who’d thought it?! I feel so happy for you – what happened?!

    On the subject of getting happy first (brought in by Millie I think) this is where I’m at. On the one hand, I don’t want to meet a man as I am so not happy. I want to be able to meet my own happy needs, and it could be likely, if I met a man now, I would just depend on him for happy and then neither of us would be happy. I want my vibe right up there and him to meet me there.

    On the other hand, sometimes it feels good to meet people who are inspirational and give you that boost to someplace better. I met a couple of men in Asia, who really triggered ‘inspiration’ in me – who encouraged ‘I want to be better’ feelings. Not in a put myself down way but in a sparked, excited, motivated way.

    And it feels very good to be desired – with that attention I feel more feminine. I feel more sexy.

    And, I know I can cultivate those feelings FIRST it’s not essential to seek that from the outside.

    I am trying to cultivate it all but I got myself a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place again. When I was writing here last, I was back in the UK and on a downer from the Asia high (loads of sun, new people, dancing,male attention – BUT fear around money…). In the UK I was doing a job that felt depressing, still feeling fear and lack around money and feeling down with the lack of sun. Life felt meaningless.

    Now, due to a ‘chance’ offer, I am living in Spain and teaching. I’ve been here a few months. Spain is a lot sunnier and it feels opportunistic to be in a bigger country and I have been exploring and there are so many wonderful places. BUT I am living in the tiniest town which doesn’t suit my nature. I feel very very isolated as I don’t have any friends (it’s very family orientated and small). There are very few social events that would interest me and I teach in a school where I feel completely psychically attacked by the relentlessly competitive nature of many of the classes!

    I feel longing for gentle. I feel longing for the essence of femininity. I feel lonely (and I NEVER feel lonely!)

    Anyway, I feel confident that I can make positive changes…it’s not long before the term is out and I can move somewhere coastal and have more chance of expanding my life again but maaannnn does it feel hard doing the day to day when it doesn’t feel very nice.

    I am living in affirmations and meditations and setting goals and then giving myself a hard time when I fail (i’m trying not to)…I really don’t want to keep going round in circles like this

    Most of the men I have liked over the last couple of years (post terrible B) have kind of floated away – I feel disappointed about that because it does feel disappointing…they are there in a background, rubber-bandy type of floaty way so not completely gone but not there either


  214.  #214sophie on April 6, 2016 at 3:22 pm

    i’m really up for peaceful, non dramatic energies…I keep ending up in jobs that are confrontational with lots of negative energies…this is my conundrum…this is my sad thing…

  215.  #215sophie on April 6, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    I would love to hear the summary of your man too Indigo if you felt happy to share? is he one from before or a newer one?

  216.  #216MissStix on April 6, 2016 at 4:43 pm


    You are so wise. I take your advice… 🙂 So glad to see you are too. You’re unstoppable if you believe in you. I mean you specifically, not even generally. YOU are actually so high value that literally the only thing that might hold you back is not knowing it.
    Love to your sexy self.

  217.  #217MissStix on April 6, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    I enjoyed reading the posts today. Nothing to add other than thank you for being you, all of you.

  218.  #218BeLoved on April 6, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    Thanks again Azure, Indigo, and also Posie because your post reminded me to keep bringing myself back to the present moment.

    Thank you Zara, for your timely posts about boundaries and self-centeredness!

    I feel as if I healed something deep, deep within myself.
    I remember saying and feeling that I had a ‘weakness’ for LankyCD, and now instead I feel a strength.

  219.  #219LoveToMe on April 6, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    Indigo – (160) I think I knew that you meant outside circumstances as well. Honestly, even that bothers me sometimes. Like if I know there is something I need to do, that I’ve decided on my own, but I don’t take action on it or speak up, and then the thing is “decided” for me by whatever – be it a person or another thing – it can feel like a lost opportunity. If that was what I felt strongly about, why didn’t I say or do something? Maybe I am being hard on myself. Maybe it is a control issue. All I can say is, sometimes it’s a relief. And sometimes it’s an annoyance. Lol

  220.  #220Millie on April 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    Azure– I feel so honored that you shared my words again!! Re-reading them invigorated me as well and it would be a good note to keep for me to re-read over and over. I had a little moment of “wow I wrote that!”

    One thing that has been on the back of mind, that I may as well share here and ask for feedback, even though I think I know the answer already… There is this event that I love going to every year that is in M’s hometown. The group of friends that goes to this event is one that I have distanced myself from a bit. The main reason was that I had other interests and naturally just wasn’t as involved with them, the second reason is that altercation that happened with Mechanic and his gf awhile back, where he basically did not want me in his life anymore. Because they are part of this social group, I haven’t been around. A few weeks ago, I wrote to him and apologized and asked if he could show the letter to his gf. I asked if we could all be friends again and start fresh. He never answered.
    So, what I WANT to happen is this: (and I know WANT is masculine so it negates everything, but let me vent)
    What I want to happen is M reaches out, tells me he is no longer seeing that other woman, that he can’t stop thinking of me and would really like to see me again. Mechanic reaches back out and accepts my apology, I meet with him and his gf and we put water under the bridge. I go to this event and have fun feeling welcomed and forgiven by everyone. I tell M I am there (but not staying with him) and if he’d like to meet I would be open and we go from there.

    In reality, none of that probably will happen. So, I do nothing. I live my life here, and focus what is in front of me and forget all about those people who have chosen not to have me around. This is the more likely situation.

    Sometimes I feel like a brat because it is hard for me to accept the cards the universe has doled out to me. Sure, these decisions by other people are a result of my own choices, so I guess the universe has nothing to do with it. Or these are people falling out of my path for a reason, to make way for something better…

  221.  #221Indigo on April 6, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    Sophie 213,

    I would feel happy to share, and I feel chuffed that you asked 🙂

    Since July last year I have dated 5 different men – BikeCD, B, Bush Boy, M and now… hm, I don’t have a name for him yet. Maybe I’ll just call him J for the moment. What is significant about it is that each one was better than the last. It was such a marked upward progression that I could not ignore it. B and I are still friends, Bush Boy has gone off to save the world one rhino at a time (I wish such blessings on him for that).

    I thought M was the most wonderful man I had ever dated, and maybe one of the most wonderful men I had ever met. When work on his side, my very demanding university studies on my side, and the distance between us got in the way of making it work I was devastated. I didn’t share much of it here, though I did tell the ladies what happened. I was very sad at the finality of it, at the way it ended, but mostly I found myself so caught up in this idea that there were no other men who were as “good” as him, and that I would have to wait forever for another wonderful, high quality man.

    Well, the man I am with now, and I’ve said this before, makes M look like an old dishrag. When I met J I forgot M so fast it would have made his head spin. Suddenly it became so clear to me that M might have been a great guy, but the man who was wonderful for me would not have let a 45 minute drive and work get in the way of being with me. The man who was right for me would not have shut down like I now see M did. It was like that twisting kaleidoscope that I talked about the other day – I would never again go back to a man who did not have time for me, or didn’t prioritise me, or didn’t willingly really want to be with me.

    I could write all day about the wonderful things J does and how he makes me feel. Maybe I’ll say a few of them here. I will say that I now know how it feels to be with a man who is empathic and highly sensitive and it’s a wonderful feeling. He understands me intuitively and is instinctively sensitive to my feelings. Like I said, I could write an essay, but he is a complete gentleman, values loyalty and faithfulness, is extremely affectionate and emotionally open, compliments me and makes me feel treasured all the time we’re together. And he’s very unusual, a very enlightened, free thinking soul. I can talk to him about anything. It really feels like a love of the souls between us. He’s not the type I would usually go for physically. But I really, really, really like who he IS, not the package he comes in (which is pretty nice too, but it is secondary).

    It’s early days and I’m naturally holding myself back a bit with him, but I can honestly tell you ladies that I find myself astounded at what the universe has dropped into my lap.

    I’ll tell you more as the story unfolds, because I’ve done my usual thing of writing an essay… 🙂

  222.  #222Indigo on April 7, 2016 at 2:24 am

    As an example, work is absolutely crazy hectic for both J and I at the moment. We still make time for each other. To communicate, and to see each other.

    Instead of shutting down on me, he asked me if we could run away together (jokingly of course but still I think it was only half jokingly, and it was nice) and told me how much my support meant to him. He made a plan to take me on a date night tomorrow night.

    I think with the wrong man, these situations can drive you apart, but with the right man, being supportive and holding the space brings you closer together.

  223.  #223Indigo on April 7, 2016 at 4:18 am

    Millie 218,

    Excuse me going all big sisterly on you, but knowing what I know now I would not give Mechanic and his girlfriend one more passing thought. I would forget anything to do with being friends with them, or asking for their “forgiveness” (what for??) and put your own water under your own bridge.

    Distance yourself from that group of friends too if they make you feel awkward about it all. You are no one’s punching bag.

    There are 7 billion people in the world, and lots of them would like to be your friend. Forget all about these people. If there is something genuinely to apologise for then do, and then give YOURSELF the closure that you need. Seek out people who LOVE having you around, not ones whose company you have to beg and grovel for.

  224.  #224Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 4:47 am

    Indigo #219-220
    Ohhh… how VERY lovely to hear about J!!!

    It is very helpful to see how CDing brings YOU closer each time to YOUR Mr. Right!!

    J does sound sooo available and generous (with time etc) and how lovely to have someone whom you feel you can share allllll aspects of your intelect!!
    Can’t wait to hear more as the journey unfolds!!

  225.  #225Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 5:02 am

    Millie #218
    Ahhh… warm huggs
    furl those doors open – Girl!!!

    I sooo agreee with Indigo…
    YOU are an amazing Siren… so courageous and warm…
    “dont’ throw your pearls before swine” I believe the bible says that!! :-))

    I too have had to let some friends go in the last few months and it is VERY heart breaking and I miss them…
    BUT, as Indigo says, we don’t have to beg for people to be our friends!!!!

    My best friend for 7 years all of a sudden got VERY nasty and obnoxious toward me and started ingnoring me…
    I apologized for what I thought was wrong…
    (she said she wasn’t upset about it)
    and it just felt awful after that…
    She did invite me to several things after
    BUT her vibe was sooo negative toward me the last time we saw each other…
    I just had to let her go…
    I’m still sad about it… wondering why…
    BUT i dont respond to any of her facebook posts
    (I haven’t unfriended her yet)
    and I WON”T be treated like that…

    As Indigo said… My own water under my own bridge
    No closure needed… I tried…

    Also I have another 2 couples who (the women are the ones who are VERY disrespectful to me)
    and I would meet them every friday at different bars and restaurants and we would have a GREAT time…
    until the past 6 months… and one woman called me a bimbo (really didn’t bother me cause I know I’m not) etc. and proceded to disrespect me ever after…
    Soooo no more Friday’s with this group!! :-((

    Let them go… This will give us room in our lives for BETTER friends to be with!!!
    Yay us, Millie!!!

  226.  #226sophie on April 7, 2016 at 5:11 am

    I feel so amazed and excited Indigo hearing your story – especially how quickly everything can just turn around. I hear this time and time again and it always amazes me. How very delicious for you – I feel so happy that you’ve found something so deep and pleasurable. And that your work/creative activities are giving you fulfillment also. How very wonderful. I so, love it, when things fall into place for us, and things flow forward, we all deserve it so much.

  227.  #227sophie on April 7, 2016 at 5:12 am

    thank you for sharing 🙂

  228.  #228Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 5:30 am

    sophie!!! welcome back!!!
    I have missed your warm, lovely melody here on Siren Island!!

    You are such an Adventuress!!! Spain!!
    Always good to be in the sun!! I know what you mean…
    I live in a state in the US, up north, with NOT much sun and we all suffer (some more than others)

    Sooo glad to hear you don’t have to stay in the small town too long…
    I’m curious about the overall personality of the Spanish people?

    Yes,,, you remember about the old days of Spirit and I… Wow… how things CAN change…
    He is sooo loving and totally dedicated to OUR journey together!!
    I’m TRYING to relax and enjoy his love and adoration!!! most times I’m pretty good at it!! :-))

  229.  #229sophie on April 7, 2016 at 5:38 am

    Ahhh Azure Thank you and how exciting and fabulous for you with Spirit tooooo!!! i feel so fascinated by the turnarounds and how time can change everything and our willingness also to just walk away and not settle for anything but the best….I feel so proud or everyone here and so happy when it works out for the best. I feel relaxed sighs or relief…it all just unfolds as it should…

    I really really enjoy the Spanish culture and the Spanish people. I’m in the South and I think there’s a difference between Spanish people in the South and the North. In the South they are unbelievably friendly and just relaxed and happy. In months I have not had a single person be anything but cheerful, chatty, friendly and helpful. I like it in this country a lot so that is a big YES! It’s just the town…but it feels okay today..the dialogue has begun with my employers and I’ll conclude that soon. I wsnt to move on. The beach is DEFINITELY calling me. And it’s MY life so I need to go for what I want…(anxiety around the letting people down, moving on, all of that)

  230.  #230Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 5:46 am

    ((((Starla )))) #207
    Sooo good to hear that you and bf are doing well!!
    Yes, self care ends up at the bottom of the list too often!

    On Sunday I got a MUCH needed 40 min. massage
    The right side of my body was in soooo much pain
    and I couldn’t figure out what to do…
    I knew it was too much time on the computer (my graphic design business is flurishing!!! yayayay)

    I had started working out more… more walks…
    soo now that it has been over a month (I can tell the difference in my strength)
    this massage just helped Sooo much (the masseuse is AMAZING)
    Now I need to make an appointment for this Sunday…
    LOVE TO US, STARLA!!! :-))

  231.  #231sophie on April 7, 2016 at 5:53 am

    They’re night owls in Spain too which suits me so well – I don’t have to wake up in the mornings now which is so good for me – there are lots of yay things 🙂

  232.  #232sophie on April 7, 2016 at 5:54 am

    i feel so excited for your business too AB so excited!!!

  233.  #233Kim on April 7, 2016 at 6:22 am

    Hm. Azure Blue and others…I noticed when it comes to friends and ‘friends’, there are those that like to be miserable and like to ‘commiserate’ when one is on a down or generally just are people tending to negativity. They seem in their element when things go wrong.
    Then, when things are going wonderful, they either try to spoil it, or get jealous, or angry (such as one or two of my friends and my guy’s sister). Increasingly, I totally see how this is a reflection of where THEY are in THEIR lives and with themselves. Calling you a bimbo…it’s just plain insultive and reeks of judgment and actually, jealousy.
    Before, I would get so triggered when people would make negative comments about me, my guy or whatever else that was important to me.

    I have noticed that, when things go well for me or as right now, I am planning a happy time (wedding etc.), they start to nitpick about everything. At first my man, then my wedding plans, and then the details of the wedding plans….bashing me over the head with ‘convention’ and ‘well this is what WE did’. I then get little digs (we decided not to do a ‘plus one’ unless people are in a relationship, we are having a tiny wedding with quite a few single people and it would mean half of our guests we would not even know). So I got digs here and there basically.

    The others, the positive people that I cherish in my life, are super supportive and happy for me and happy to go along with whatever – easy going and just generally positive.

    I don’t know, I have learnt to let the negative nancies go (or talk until they foam at the mouth lol), even though one or two were actually really good friends and I feel sorry for them, because it is clear as the light of day that they are not happy. Thing is, the ones I decide to keep in my life, I just let them talk now…and don’t pay much attention to what they say..and try not to take it personally or get offended or give advice…it is hard sometimes but at the end of the day, it is a reflection of their unhappiness and their problems, not ours.
    Keeping boundaries, smiling and movin on if it gets too much!

  234.  #234Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 6:47 am

    Ohhhh… as always… when reading your posts
    I feel like I am on a travel station…
    I learn sooo much from your sharing here!!!
    thank you

    Spain (southern) sounds soo delicious!!!
    and the night owl stuff would be perfect for me as well!!

    Thank you for the congrats on my business booming!
    I’m soooo busy I can’t get time to hire someone!!
    I almost finished putting up a help wanted in the local universities (there are about 7 in the general vacinity)

  235.  #235Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 6:56 am

    Kim #231
    Ohhh… Thanks for your sharing about “friends”

    also soooo interesting and I love hearing about Your Wedding plans…

    Totally makes since NOT to say +guest..
    Sounds like there will be enough single people there so no one will feel out of place! :-))

    When writing and thinking about my best friend I have had to let go of…
    i realize all the great memories we had
    and the sadness I Do feel…
    I think I want to soften my heart around this…
    feel and LOVE all MY feelings around this
    She was Very important in my life through quite
    a lot we both went through…
    and I am missing her…
    and I am VERY surprised it actually is over…
    for now…

  236.  #236BeLoved on April 7, 2016 at 7:58 am

    Ok – note to self – I need to remember that even Rori has said she misses opportunities all of the time to be communicate more in her feminine self, it’s not the end of the world if I have a power struggly moment and forget to say how I feel.
    AND, I can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy or the right thing to the wrong guy, ha.

  237.  #237Indigo on April 7, 2016 at 8:16 am

    Azure Blu 223,

    The same thing happened with me and my best friend a year or two ago. She became very distant, stopped replying to my text messages, then one day I saw I was deleted off Skype.

    I messaged her and asked her whether I had done something unintentionally to hurt or offend her that I could apologise for. And she replied that she now kept her Skype only for family (!) and that she was the one who should apologise for not keeping in touch.

    To this day I have no idea what it really was, but I have let it go. I can only think of it being two things. Firstly, she used to be an “unhappy single” who used to confide all her heartbreaks to me, and I did the same. But once we both became happier and found guys and she no longer needed a single friend to commiserate with, she had no time for me. She also gained another best friend who gave me the cold shoulder from the get go. So I guess it was one of those.

    It’s fine. I bless those now who leave my life. They’re not meant to be there.

  238.  #238Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 8:41 am

    Indigo #235
    Ohhh… so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend… thank you for sharing your journey about this.
    that sounds like what might have happened…
    Yes, she is now VERY happy with a man and they are living together and have worked out many of the things she was sooo very upset about…
    I was still CDing when she started acting distant and has no idea that I am with Spirit now…

    There is an ebb and flow in life and friendships..

    i’ve done the same… many times I really didn’t want to hurt the other person by telling them…
    “I just don’t like this—-about your personality and I don’t ever see that changing!”
    “it feels like a negative in my life right now”

    Also I did probably share too much about my Rori tools – she could have gotten really sick of hearing about them
    as she is VERY controlling and mothering and pushy in her man’s life (worse than most)
    and leaning back and LOVING herself made no since to her… She was going to MAKE him do everything that she wanted…

    Sooo I am working today on “blessing” her and comforting ME – My little girl is feeling sad and needs my hugs! :-))

  239.  #239April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 9:19 am

    LoveToMe and Indigo,

    I loved your conversation on this thread, about guys who hold back and do not ‘steamroller’ a woman with their sexual energy.

    Feels good to know that men are behaving this way.

  240.  #240April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 9:21 am

    Millie 176

    Thank you for sharing the story about your co-worker. I feel smiley and inspired reading about her.

  241.  #241April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 9:25 am


    Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful no-nonsense response, and for the reminder to make a choice about what I want.


  242.  #242MissStix on April 7, 2016 at 9:27 am

    I have had the best couple of days!! Dropped 900 bux to fix my car. BUT I’ve been taking public transit and i’m loving it. I’m learning I meet people. Random people…
    People watch me, smile at me, say hello to me and strike up initially intrusive yet inevitably interesting conversations with me. Lol
    One person actually tapped me on the shoulder and had me take my headphones out so they could talk to me. We chatted the whole ride.
    I rock some mixes my bf made in my headphones. Special one of a kind music I don’t have in my car. Music that reminds me how important music is to me and wonderfully and unexpectedly I feel all these amazing things about life and myself. He has great taste in music from accross the spectrum…So good. It’s all remixed so it’s upbeat and bumps yet it’s also thoughtful and flowing. My favourite kind of music.

    I purposely get off a couple stops early and walk. Get my blood pumping and breathe deeply and keep my head up and take everything in. I feel like the breeze. I feel so…vibrant!
    It’s lit up my world. 🙂
    It feels like exhaling.

    I started this post yesterday and continuing it now lol

    Today i’m feeling so right and good. I can feel how exactly right everything is. Just as it is. And I see how everything that’s happened over the past year has been a springboard into a level of confidence, OKness and self love i’ve never experienced before.
    You think there’s a limit and then woosh up you go even higher 😀

  243.  #243BeLoved on April 7, 2016 at 9:27 am

    April Rose 237 – I agree. I’ve been visualizing the guy who is all about “We can wait, I’m not going anywhere.”
    My niece is dating a man now who wants to save sex for later, he wants to prove to her that he really loves and cares about her for her. The actions back up the words, he shows her so much care and sweetness.

    I feel SO OPEN to receiving a man like this in my life!

  244.  #244April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 9:30 am

    Indigo 179

    Thank you for your words on the benefits of holding out and getting to know someone before having sex.

    You’ve also reminded me of the word ‘pressure’. It’s a great one for feeling messages.
    “I’m feeling pressured and I don’t want to feel pressured. It feels good getting to know you more slowly”.

  245.  #245MissStix on April 7, 2016 at 9:30 am

    Guy at work with a crush on me is orbiting me, flirting with me, watching me, telling me i’m his favourite person.
    BF is not letting up either. Love flows in. It’s a beautiful day. No complaints!

  246.  #246April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 9:40 am


    What you said to Millie about the golden nugget
    – that feeling of love for people we have known and had relationships with – well, that made a happy lightbulb switch on in my heart.

    Now I can just leave the feelings of love where they are. I have no need to act on them. Phew, feels very soothing.

  247.  #247Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 9:48 am

    MissStix #240
    Ohhhh… Yeah!!! So bright shiny – lovely breezy
    happy energy///
    Thank you for sharing!!

  248.  #248Starla on April 7, 2016 at 10:02 am

    Miss Stix,
    I never walked again after I got a car a few years ago. It’s a shame. You’re inspiring me to get back to it!

  249.  #249Femininewoman on April 7, 2016 at 10:10 am

    Miss Stix I celebrated my birthday yesterday and now reading your post about using public transport I feel like I am celebrating me all over again. That was really cool about how when we engage with life how different our experience can be.

    Shout out to Mercedes and Dominique. I know your birthdays are coming soon too.

  250.  #250Starla on April 7, 2016 at 10:13 am

    Happy birthday, FW! Thank you for your generosity with your perspective and feedback here!

  251.  #251Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 10:34 am

    Feminine Woman!!!
    Darling, wonderful Siren!!
    Happiest of Birthday years!!! OPEN THE DOORS!
    confetti…. Champaign all around – POP! POP!

  252.  #252Liquid Light on April 7, 2016 at 11:01 am

    Its interesting to hear the stories about friendships. I have a friend in my life like this. She constantly talks about herself and I always feel like I have to fight to get a word in. She seems to take very little interest in my art (most important thing in my life right now) and me in general. I’ve wanted to be friends with her because we work in the same industry and used to work at the same company. She is still there in fact. I’ve enjoyed having that connection and hearing about my previous workplace. But now I’m really questioning the benefit she brings to me as a friend and am finding I don’t want to spend time with her. I feel like I was giving her a chance but she’s blown it over and over again. Her tune hasn’t changed. Sometimes the best thing to do is just cut your losses when you realize someone is really not being much of a friend at all. 🙁

  253.  #253Liquid Light on April 7, 2016 at 11:02 am

    Happy Birthday FW!

  254.  #254Liquid Light on April 7, 2016 at 11:30 am

    April Rose 174,

    You asked about how it feels to open up about personal stuff with my new CD. It feels really uncomfortable on one level but also really nice. He’s so curious about me and my deeper thoughts and feelings. We haven’t known each other very long (less than a month) so part of me feels like its too early for these kind of conversations? I dunno. We had also been drinking (wine with dinner) and so I wasn’t totally sober when we were talking deep stuff. I don’t think that’s the best combination since it all gets a bit foggy. LOL

    I’m seeing him later today. We have another really fun date planned. We’ll see how it goes. Things are getting deep quickly with us, on a personal/emotional level, not physical. We haven’t had sex and I really don’t want to for a while. He wanted to come up to my place though when he dropped me off last time. I said No. But now I feel like physical intimacy is getting closer. Any thoughts on how to keep things in the slow lane ladies?

    Part of me in the back of mind, has a feeling of dread. The last guy who asked to come up to my place (very similar situation) and I said No to, I never heard from again. And I don’t think he was a bad guy at all. So that really surprised me. I think though if they don’t feel like there is any chemistry together, they aren’t interested in moving forward…

    Just feels like tricky waters to navigate for us right now. Feeling a bit nervous about it…

    The other thing that’s wigging me out a bit is that we have all these strange coincidences/serendipity happening with us. Like really wild stuff. Its freaking me out a bit. In fact, I was so weirded out by it, I got a migraine yesterday. I was talking to my Dad and he told me about something that related to our conversation about K. It was so out of left field, the unlikely coincidence of it, it really threw me for a loop. And when I got off the phone, I started feeling a migraine coming on! I always feel like when this kind of crazy serendipitous things happen, the universe is trying to send you a message by bashing you over the head with it. LOL

  255.  #255MissStix on April 7, 2016 at 11:31 am

    Happy birthday FW!!

  256.  #256MissStix on April 7, 2016 at 11:34 am

    On the topic of friendship…

    I read something along the lines of: If you seek friendship it may be hard to find but if you seek to be a friend you will find it in abundance.
    And that made so much sense to me.

  257.  #257MissStix on April 7, 2016 at 11:36 am

    Liquid light…

    As it relates to my previous post your friend is seeking friendship. A friend for herself. Yet she is not seeking to BE a friend and she may lose the friend over it.

  258.  #258Indigo on April 7, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    Happy birthday Feminine Woman! 🙂

  259.  #259Indigo on April 7, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    April Rose,

    I’m so happy you derived some comfort from my words.

    Like I said, you could have knocked me over with a feather when J said that we would wait because he wanted me to know he was not going anywhere.

    This is what it is like dating a sensitive man. I’ve never really experienced it before – for whatever reason, the men I’ve been attracted to before were these more, I guess, masculine, rougher, more selfish types… I don’t say this negatively, there are so many men like this. But for a sensitive person, I really think you may want to look for a sensitive partner.

    What I do find with J is that it’s incredibly easy between us. Yes thank you God, happythankyoumoreplease.

  260.  #260Kim on April 7, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Happy birthday feminine woman!
    Two celebrations are better than one!

    Coincidentally, on the topic of walking, I found it takes my mind off a whole lot of negative thoughts, especially a walk in nature/on the beach etc.
    I have used walking in lieu of anti-depressants….I was never heavily depressed but am prone to ‘blue’ episodes.
    I am so much into walking as healing that I wrote a book about it.
    During the research period, I came across loads of articles about how it benefits our brain (as well as our body).
    It works wonders for me, even if there is a certain element of having to force myself to walk sometimes…I always feel better afterwards.

  261.  #261Starla on April 7, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    I have been feeling this needy pull towards my boyfriend. I want him to do something fun with me! I want excitement! I almost brought it up to him, but then I realized I brought it up the last couple times and he always delivered on my request, but I would feel better to give that a rest. But! I know just what to do — focus on making myself happy.

  262.  #262Dominique on April 7, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    Femininewoman – Happy! Happy!! Day!!! Wishing you everything you wish for and then some.

    I no longer have your number (lost everything when I got my new phone last year), so couldn’t send you best wishes privately. Would you please text me, so I can have your back in my phone again. Thank you.

    And thank you for the birthday wishes as well. Not until next week though. 🙂

    Love to you. xxoo

  263.  #263Femininewoman on April 7, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    Thank you ladies

  264.  #264LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    216 BeLoved – “feel a strength”

    I like that

  265.  #265LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    Happy Bday, FW!!

  266.  #266Azure Blu on April 7, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    Liquid Light…
    Ahhh… i’m so happy to hear more about your continuing good times with K!

    For me having s*x too early does NOT work, even before Rori! It causes me to get too invested emotionally
    and I can’t stay in my lean back vibe easily…

    so I have had to come up with some scripts
    to show how interested and sexy I find this man… while staying true to my boundaries.

    This is usually while we are making out and quite close to each other…
    Me: “Ohhh CD… i feel so excited and happy getting to know you… you are a very s*xy man.
    For me, it feels good to wait and get to know each other better and have an agreed upon exclusivity before I have s*x.”

    I Have ALWAYS found when I shared my boundaries around s*x
    they have been intrigued and respectful…
    I like to wait at least 2 months- when I really like the guy… (I have dated men for 4-6 months and NEVER had s*x, I broke up with them so wasn’t really into them)
    If THEY like you they will wait!…

    they usually push for more…
    But I continue to share my feelings around s*x and
    they often pout but really deep down are glad I am waiting…

    I had to become clear with MYSELF about what my boundaries are and then I could easily share them…
    AND softly let them know I find them super s*xy but I want to get to know each other first.

  267.  #267Kath on April 7, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    Hi Ladies,
    So me and the guy with the sex addiction managed 2mths and then I became really aware that my concerns and doubts were taking physical manifestations and I was feeling very unwell. Mr M stayed with me one saturday night and on sunday we chilled infront of the TV for much of the day. I wasn’t feeling too well and really just wanted him to go but he sat there, watching TV, enjoying the food I’d bought and the warmth of my Living room. When he left I sighed with relief and had a lovely steaming hot bath and looked for my special oil to pamper my skin and feel lovely again. But it wasn’t to be found anywhere. I knew I hadn’t moved it but didn’t want to accuse Mr M- so just left it a day thinking I’d hear from him-but I didn’t. I leaned forward (WRONG!) and sent him a text saying I could meet him for lunch-but got no response and no apology either when I did hear from him. So when he asked how I was, I told him I’d felt so poorly that i’d had a lovely hot bath and had wanted to pamper my skin but couldn’t find my favourite oil. He replied that he’d last seen it on top of the bathroom cabinet on the saturday night. My brain went into overdrive- I thought How come it had disappeared then in 24hrs??- where was it??_ Had he taken it??_ why would he take it??- Unless………yep you have it, I put two and two together and that was the nail in the coffin for me. How could he be so blatant!?- Was I going mad??- Uggh!!- horrible feelings came up which I didn’t want to deal with but I knew I had to end it with him. He actually took the split very well I thought and said he wanted to stay friends- which I was happy to do. We met for coffee the next day and then he wanted to see me the following day and said he still wanted to see me every day and that he still loved me etc etc. I said that didn’t feel good to me and that I was happy to see him every so often but as I didn;t see my friends every day, I wouldn’t be seeing him every day. It was then that the mood changed and after we’d parted company he sent me some incredibly strange texts saying how angry he was that I;d accused him of stealing from me and how he couldn;t be friends and wouldn’t be texting or seeing me again. I replied I was very sorry he was so angry and I felt very sad it had come to that and I hoped that given time, perhaps we could see things differently. I also said that if I was wrong and I found the oil in the future then I would feel very stupid. Thing is I know I won’t find it and feel that I have caught him out even though I can’t believe he was that stupid to take it from me in the first place!- I was left feeling very upset and sad that I was being made to feel that I was the one in the wrong!!- Ugh!- enough.

  268.  #268LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    234 BeLoved – YES. I love what you said. And it reminds me how I felt “steamrolled” by my friend a couple of times on that weekend I stayed with him. When I happened, I felt so uncomfortable, and I let him know I was having trouble with the situation. But he didn’t seem to be able to wrap his head around having done anything to hurt me. I asked for his help, and he responded. And then he said “I would never do anything to hurt you intentionally.” Yes. But that doesn’t negate the possibility that you might hurt me *unintentionally*

    And then what do you do? Do you apologize and say you are sorry? Or do you continue to insist that you had a right to do whatever you did and it’s fine, and I’m fine, and I really shouldn’t be upset?

    The word “entitled” comes to mind. He acted as if he were entitled to do just about anything with me or around me, just because he felt like it, often without asking for my input. So I never had a chance to let him know how I felt about it. The fact is, he didn’t care. He was going to do it anyway. It never mattered what I thought of how I felt.

    That is my lingering impression, despite him telling me that he would never hurt me “intentionally.” Well, he hurt me, and I’m not even talking about sex. I am thinking of two other things that happened that caught me off-guard, which turned into larger conversations that had me practically defending myself and my very existence around him. That’s not a good way to be.

    My mantra of the day actually has been “you can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy.” I’ve just been saying that to myself, over and over.

    It’s good that I’ve been forced to go cold turkey with him. Really evaluating him and his actions has not brought him into a good light for me. In fact, I am feeling more and more that he is not right for me, despite our former friendship. And I don’t need to “make” it anything more.

    And if he insists that I “said the wrong thing” to him…well, I was just being myself. Authentic, honest, and clear about who I am. If that was wrong for him, then he is not right for me….

  269.  #269LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 3:26 pm


    That sounds super stressful, and it also sounds like you handled it beautifully.

    Many guys see “being friends” as a code for “maybe something more.” It takes the pressure off. So they use it that way, so they expect that we do, too. That, combined with the fact that you were downgrading the relationship and becoming less available, probably made him want you and want to see you even more. BUT, when he understood that you were really serious, that you really meant to end the romantic relationship, then it became a rejection for him, and it hit him really angry.

    You mentioned that he was a (former?) sex addict. Does he have issues with kleptomania also? What a weird thing to steal.

    Anyway, I think you followed your gut and your heart. And the door will be open now – or you will be one step (one guy) closer to the right kind of relationship for you : )

  270.  #270LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 3:29 pm

    MissStix – I think about that too 🙂

  271.  #271Kath on April 7, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    Thankyou for your lovely kind words- they hug me which I need right now. It felt really horrible to be bombarded with so many mixed messages from him- I just stayed calm and focused and leant back-
    Rori- it’s starting to feel more natural to be live my life this way- yay!!

  272.  #272LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    And to continue the thought that I think BeLoved mentioned, if my friend really is the “wrong guy,” or at least the wrong guy right now, then I am truly better off saying nothing to him and not reaching out, because there won’t be a “right” thing I can say. I want there to be. But there isn’t. He is not in that mind frame.

    I only mention this because two of my coworkers seem to be prodding me to contact him, or suggesting that its something I could do to move things along.

    Yet when they do, I feel like gently keeping my siren boundaries. I tell them I don’t see how that will really help in this situation. And that feels good. They bid and accept what I say. I think because *I* accept what I say.

    “Water under the bridge,” some of you have mentioned. All that happened with him is water under the bridge now. I cannot change its shape, color, or composition. I cannot change that it’s gone under.

    What I am able to do is “lean back,” observe, circular date as I feel like doing, and trust my boundaries NOW. N o w. The more I do, the better it feels.

    Because, tempting as it is in some moments, there is nothing I really want to say to him, so long as he is not keeping the conversation moving forward. And even that in itself is important information for me to consider. Do I want this? Is this interaction good? Do I like it? Do I like him??? Is he worthy of this – of me? I’m not sure. I had a moment of sureness, and now it’s gone. Another phrase that was mentioned – “pearls before swine.” It’s in the Bible, under Proverbs, which is really just a list of basic common-sense stuff. I actually really enjoy reading proverbs, and maybe make I’ll break it out again.

    To me, right now, he is behaving like “swine,” and anything I might say to him are beautiful pearls I have created. And I’m going to keep them to myself unless he decides to show up and act differently.

  273.  #273LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 4:11 pm

    Kath – I’m so glad you appreciated it :). Even with all the typos. Lol

    I meant to say it *made* him really angry. Or perhaps it hit him hard. Or both. I think you got the idea ; )

  274.  #274LoveToMe on April 7, 2016 at 4:13 pm

    Also…another thing…I am the real pearl : D

  275.  #275April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    I just witnessed truly, for the first time, how hungry men are for the presence of feminine energy. And how nourished they are by it.

    I spent a lovely first date at a theatre show. I felt so moved by the performance that my energy swirled around inside of me in deep places, and when the play finished it took me a while before I could speak.

    At last I said a few words about my feeling. He quickly found us a quiet and comfortable place to sit. I felt totally got by this man who sat reverently beside me as the unusual waves of feeling were happening inside me and I allowed them to radiate. I could feel that he was moved in my presence.

    I felt my heart expand with the special beauty of the moment, and with gratitude. And from then on all I did was experience myself being immersed in my feelings and sensations, and I began to find some words to express them. And I felt amazed at how easily it flowed, and at the thrill it was to experience and express myself in this man’s presence.

    I barely spoke one opinion, fact , or piece of information. He did that part, and my responses flowed like a mountain stream.

    Gosh, I loved it!
    I feel really happy just now.

  276.  #276April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    Oh, and yes..

    He said he didn’t want the evening to end! He said “I’m with the warmest person in the world”.

    I felt so melted hearing that.

  277.  #277April Rose on April 7, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    Happy happy Birthday dear Femininewoman.

    May you be sprinkled with love sparkles and champagne bubbles of gorgeousness, dear lady.

    Much love to you.

  278.  #278T-Girl on April 7, 2016 at 4:31 pm

    Happy Birthday FW!

  279.  #279Millie on April 7, 2016 at 7:58 pm

    Liquid Light 254–

    I feel so happy for you that you are discovering this new emotional intimacy with K! On the subject of postponing physical intimacy I have a few ideas/thought to share.

    I slept with M on our third date, and we were pretty physical (making out) on our first date. When he recently started asking me if I had slept with the new guy I was seeing I told him “It was only a couple dates.” He said- So? When did we sleep together? I said, the third… and he asked again if I had slept with the new guy already. When I slept with M, I wanted to.. and didn’t think much of it. Clearly though, he thinks if I slept with him that quickly that I will with other men too…in a way it de-valued me without me realizing it and probably felt more valuable since I slept with him sooner than with other men. Being selective always increases our value. In turn I also thought that he sleeps with people quickly. I’ve learned that men are wired to seek sex and also wired to respond to a challenge. Our challenge is holding our boundaries until he shows us he is worthy of our physical gifts. We commit to ourselves first. I agree with Azure, that expressing how good you are feeling with him and how s*xy he is while also expressing a boundary is a positive way to go! He won’t feel rejected, but if he is interested in more than s*x that desire to go slow won’t deter him. Perhaps in your past situations, they only felt rejection and not all the other positive feelings that you felt with them. Just food for thought.

  280.  #280Millie on April 7, 2016 at 8:45 pm

    So online dating round like 20…. has been going well I suppose. I see a difference in how I’m responding to men vs. in the past. I think before I did “expect” bad behavior and was just waiting for a man to disrespect me so I could have a reason not to continue talking to them. I find that of course, men are more receptive when you do not assume anything and come from a place of curiosity. This time, so far, I’ve had far less men contacting me for hooking-up!! It is surprising to me actually!! There’s a couple here and there, but the majority really seem genuinely interested and are going out of their way to show me that even through messages. One man asked to see me that same day we started talking. I said “it would feel good to get to know each other a bit first.” He then gave me his number and said he was open to talking on the phone if that would make me feel more comfortable. I took a shower and came back to about 4 messages from him… I commented that he had messaged me a lot and decided to give him my number since he had so masculinely offered to make me more comfortable. I had a feeling in my stomach that I shouldn’t though…. but felt like I had to reward him (mistake). Since then he has blown up my phone asking asking asking all these questions before I’ve even had a chance to answer!! He says when he sees a good thing he goes for it! I said I felt flattered at his speed…and I do, but I’m also so turned off by his sense of urgency. I am sitting here wondering if he is on drugs that make his mind race faster than mine?? He started asking for pics and just sent me a bunch of his, that were already on his profile. (he’s not THAT good looking) I feel totally out of his league. I responded by saying that I had plenty on my profile… and that I was going to bed. Boy I wish I hadn’t given him my number. Today he texted a couple times, and I’m debating telling him that his energy doesn’t feel aligned with mine, but he seems the type that won’t take no for an answer and perhaps that is why I feel “red flag” here. Lesson learned, follow my gut!!!! haha still learning that lesson!!!

    No word from M, my gut tells me he will contact me again…when his latest fling fizzes out. Apparently she slept with him on the first or second date, so knowing him, I can predict it will fizzle. We shall see though… I got an email from Bob Grant today on what makes a man commit.. and the answer is so simple!!! It kills me… what makes him commit is feeling like he will lose you if he doesn’t…. and if he wants you, he will do what it takes not to lose you. I’m doing the 8 weeks no contact that Dr. Pat recommends… I have a feeling he will be back before the 8 weeks are up.. but maybe my gut is being silly.. If anything I can feel good knowing I stated a boundary and have honored it. He has lost my presence…. I just have to keep working on my energy. Not being sad, not feeling like a failure… not connecting anything to him really…. such a process. and for me it seems like a really f-ing long one. Argh

  281.  #281Beloved on April 7, 2016 at 10:24 pm

    Millie – for future reference, you can get a Google Voice number for free that you can use to call, answer and text from your phone through the Hangouts app. You can block a number very easily with just a click. I’ve found this to be great for OLD, they don’t get my real number until I feel comfortable.

  282.  #282LoveToMe on April 8, 2016 at 12:40 am


    The other thing you can do (I have to remember this myself sometimes) is just stop replying to his messages. “Feeling messages” are great. But they imply that we want to have a conversation and draw him in. If we don’t want that, then it’s but effective at getting him to go away. Lol. But not responding usually is, eventually…

  283.  #283LoveToMe on April 8, 2016 at 1:08 am

    I like BeLoved’s suggestion also.


    I have thought that maybe I should just have not responded to my friend when he sent the first text that had a “negative” vibe to it.

    A lot of you have asked “what happened.” And I think I’m ready to say:

    Basically…well, first of all, I did lean forward a little. I’ll cop to that. I had told him about a cute dress that I bought on Friday. On Sunday, I was wearing the dress. So I sent him a picture. It was Easter, and my father has invited me to a lunch thing, so the pic had my father in it. He complimented me on the dress. Then I sent him another photo that didn’t have my dad in it (because that’s not super sexy. Lol) he said he didn’t care about that. But he also said not to “torture” him (I guess with too many photos.)

    I do have a weak spot, which is teasing guys. I like to get them excited when they are attracted to me. They seem to like it – up to a point.

    I like it when I am far away and they can’t “do anything” about it. They hate it for the same reason.

    Anyway. I had also bought this new bra, which I looked at, as I was getting changed, and I felt so sexy wearing it. And – maybe this was my “real” mistake – I texted him about the bra, too. No photo. I just mentioned that it made me feel sexy.

    But his comment back to me was weird. It wasn’t “oh, don’t tell me that,” or “I want to see it” – which would be normal guy responses, I would think. He said, “what, you’ve never worn [xyz kind of] bra before?” (Because it was a new type I had never tried.) It threw me off. I didn’t know why he was focusing on *that.* I didn’t feel it was relevant, and also that it really wasn’t any of his business, beating what I had already told him. Already, he had seemed kind of stand-offish. And this one comment made me feel separate from him, not close.

    And it bothered me, too, because at one point, while at his house, he had made a comment about his to wear a bra, what was the right way to do it, kind of thing. I felt that really intruded on my boundaries as a woman. Like ok, you can appreciate my bras. You can take them off, if you want. But please don’t tell me how I am supposed to wear them, or what kind of bras I am supposed to own.

    I responded that I didn’t really understand or appreciate his comments about my bras, and to please not make suggestions about what or how I am supposed to wear them, and if he wants to wear them himself, he can “get his own d*mn bras.” I was genuinely offended, but I was also trying to use humor to diffuse the situation.

    Up until that point, we had been having a really fun, connected conversation. Then it flipped, 180. He said that he could not handle my “triggers” (I wasn’t triggered, I was offended), that he didn’t want to have to “defend his boundaries against me” (I thought I was defending my boundaries), and that if he ever contacted me again, it would not be for a very long time.

    Then it looked like he had blocked my number, because the texts I sent in response never showed up as “sent” or “delivered.” I messaged him through a different outlet, and he basically said the same thing – that he needed to step back for his own sanity because I was so problematic.

    And I feel angry about this. That’s partly why I’m not contacting him now. Anything I say will probably be laced with some sort of anger. And yeah, maybe it’s better to focus on the positive. But if I feel offended by what he said, I want to let him know and nip it in the bud sort of thing. Well, the bud was nipped. He just took off running. Like instead of having an adult conversation about a real issue that mattered to me, he decided to invalidate my feelings and everything I said, shut down the conversation and walk away, making the entire thing my fault.

    And something about it feels phenomenally not right.

    I suspected later that maybe *he* was panicking – both in general and at the moment. His dad left his family when he was 6 years old. He clearly has abandonment issues. And right after I was there and connected with him, I had to leave. I know that he missed me and wanted me to stay. Maybe freaking out, shutting down, and making it my fault was the way he could cope with the separation. I would get that. But it’s speculation. Maybe I really did a bad thing by mentioning my cute bra. I now wish that I hadn’t. But I’m sure something would have come up eventually.

    I told him to go think about everything and then come back and talk to me. So while he’s doing that, I get to think also. I guess I could adopt the 8-week rule for this. It’s only been a week and a half, yet it feels like three weeks. It three months.

    I know that I have issues I still need to resolve, but I also feel like I am detecting a deep level of insecurity and immaturity in him. Which also might be areas in myself that I could stand to “up-level.”

    So that’s my story. And the part that kills me most is the loss of a friend. But like my therapist asked me – maybe I don’t know that it’s “over,” maybe I only think that I do

  284.  #284Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 1:15 am

    Millie 280,

    Re: the responses you get from men online. I totally agree. As your energy changes, so the men who contact you changes. In the last few years I have almost never been contacted by men looking to hook up. And the few who did ask very respectfully disappeared when I told them I was not interested.

    And yes, when it comes to online, please trust your gut. It’s all you’ve got to go on in the absence of real life contact. My gut has never been wrong when I’ve had a funny feeling about a man online. No need to “reward” them or apologise. Your first and only priority is to your own wellbeing. I learnt that the hard way after “indulging” several men who got way too invasive before I’d even met them.

    Finally, I can’t say I agree with Bob Grant that a man will only commit if he feels he will lose you forever. Sure a man might commit then, and if he does realise what he’s lost and you still want him, then great. But where’s your choice in all of this? What if you no longer want him? Do you really necessarily always want to be with a man who has to be kept on a trapdoor throughout your relationship? In my experience a man also commits if it’s what he WANTS. He’s at a point in his life where he feels ready and willing to make that kind of commitment, or maybe he’s the loving sort of man who loves being in a relationship. And he wants to be with THAT woman. I’ve known several men like that, and ultimately I would say the majority of the married couples I know married each other because they wanted to be together and share their lives.

    I’m very sorry but I have a big problem with this kind of advice, like you have to spend your entire relationship playing the coy ingenue, convincing him that he’s onto a good thing. Sounds like a good recipe for keeping a woman insecure. The men I’ve been with who loved me and valued me did so because of who I was. My responsibility is to me, to who I want to be, not to convincing some man to love me.

  285.  #285Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 1:50 am

    Love to Me 283,

    I tend to agree with your therapist that it’s not necessarily over, but if it were me, if he came back I would want to be totally different with him.

    The comment about the bra – if it were me, I would have completely let that go. Men have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say you are offended by something like that. A woman might know. A man would just think, this woman is drama. She makes me feel bad about saying something that I didn’t even say to offend her.

    I’ve learnt you really cannot talk to men like you talk to women or to your therapist. They are simple creatures. They are not trying to hurt or offend you. Dominique talks a lot about this.

    My interactions with men have improved exponentially when I just leave them be and let stuff go the majority of the time.

  286.  #286Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 2:52 am


    Do any of you know much about astrology or numerology, or can point me in the direction of someone who could give me a good reading?

    I’d just like to get an interpretation on something. My ex-husband (and first love’s) birthday was 28 November. D’s birthday was 28 October. J’s birthday is also 28 October. Incidentally, my birthday is 14 December (28 is double 14). This feels beautiful and significant somehow, but I have no idea what it means.

  287.  #287April Rose on April 8, 2016 at 3:49 am

    Hi Indigo,

    Those numbers have a lovely harmony to them.

    I believe you can give the meaning to them as you wish.

    With astrology and numerology the year of birth is a huge factor, and the time of birth another one.

    There is a lot you can learn for yourself, if you feel so inclined. My favourite program of Carol Allen’s is called Signs of Compatibility.

  288.  #288Victoria on April 8, 2016 at 4:46 am

    I also think the numbers have only the meaning that you wish to give them. I somewhat believe in zodiac signs (not to the point to expect validity of predictions, but they are quite fascinating)
    28 October is Sag (like you), not a good combination for a Sag. 28 October is Scorpio, not a good combination for a Sag either, in fact, from my personal experience, Scorpio’s are the worst possible match (is there a word non-match ?).
    I think we have had this conversation with you before, haven’t we, or am I having a deja vu?

  289.  #289Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 5:45 am

    Indigo I have been curious about numerology but never really went into any depth. However, I do believe you are right. There is something significant there. We take too many things for granted when the Universe is showing us things.

  290.  #290Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 6:22 am


    Reading your comment about the bra it seems to me that you opened the door and then when he took the bait the best way he knew how, in the moment, you kinda slammed the door in his face. To me the fact that you confirm you were offended indicates that you were triggered to react. If not then you would’ve been able to let it go and not hold any feelings towards the comments in your cells. In my opinion this is information about yourself that you could be possibly learning.

  291.  #291Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 6:27 am

    Thanks for the birthday wishes.

    T-Girl always so lovely to see you pop in. All is still well in your marriage?

  292.  #292Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 6:29 am

    Indigo #286…
    I think Victoria’s understanding of the complimentary/or not zodiac signs sounds spot on…

    I do take all of this with an understanding that everything is relative when it comes to humans…

    I had my zodiac sign done by a lovely young man when I was 24 – 1976… I am a Virgo…
    I never really thought I had any of the Virgo traits…

    But, as some have said… the time and place of birth is So important!! which I gave him

    I still have the hand written (before computers) assessment – It is Spot ON!!!

    I do so love the sycronicity of all your numbers!!
    it does sound sooo swirlly and exciting!!

  293.  #293Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 6:32 am

    Millie I wouldn’t judge that guy who seems desperate. He might be just too happy that he actually got a bite. Many of these guys are online all the time and get no result.

  294.  #294Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 6:50 am

    Yay… it’s friday… but i feel VERY off…
    My daughter had pulled back… not sure why…
    She is a Scorpio – red headed- and when she withdraws it is completely and then won’t say why…
    asking her why is part of a pattern I don’t wish to continue –
    I have textd and ask a few questions about my granddaughter but she has not responded…

    I know she is Sooo completely overwhelmed with 2 children a barn full of horses (she trains, rides, breeds and sells horses) and a husband…
    and she and I publish a horse magazine quarterly..
    It is due out this month…

    My friends have pulled back,,,, or I have stopped running after them…
    and Spirit also has pulled back a bit -this week…

    Of course my mind is swirling amidst all this…

    Spirit has stopped drinking – He was drinking WAY TOO MUCH… I was Very concerned- way beyond anything I want to be with!!
    so I am thrilled…
    I said nothing – he just decided to stop because he realized it was getting out of hand… to the point of leaving the bars almost every night VERY drunk…

    Sooo… of course he is learning to adjust to life without alcohol…

    I needed space… I’m glad he is taking space also…

    Me leaning back… being open and warm when he text and calls… I did call also…we are at that place in our relationship where I do try to reciprocate… I am the QUEEN of leaning back way too far….
    to where the man doesn’t feel my interest and love from me…

    I am struggling with emotional and physical intimacy with Spirit..
    those muscles are soo under worked…
    Here I am at the 3 months of exclusivity-
    this is where Spirit and I usually combust!!

    Any thoughts and Ideas on how I can build my emotional intimacy muscles? and NOT let the breakdown happen?
    Lovely wise Sirens – Help!!!

  295.  #295Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 6:53 am

    I should qualify Spirits taking space… we talk several times everyday and text…
    it’s been 3 days since we have seen each other…
    I’m sure my vibe has been “I need space”

  296.  #296Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 6:56 am

    Azure I believe you can choose to take your hand off your panic button. Read through your post and you will see where you seem to be pushing URGENT intensely.

    Even with your daughter. It could just be that she is busy and maybe you have a lot of free time right now that you could channel your creativity into something new or different?

  297.  #297Victoria on April 8, 2016 at 6:57 am

    I have no advice, except to say I am in a similar place. I can not tolerate so much closeness. I want to run away, Basically, I am bored. I want baloons, and music, and excitement, and adventure, and when I have those, I also want more, but I also get tired, and I want to shut down, and just sleep, sleep forever. I can’t be bothered to swim through the soup, I feel like I will just gently drop down to the bottom of the pot.

  298.  #298Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 7:34 am

    Ahhhh… yes Wise Siren,
    I read through my posts…

    I AM choosing to take my hand off the PANIC Button!

    Everything is just fine….
    actually… My life looks really good.
    How wonderful is it that my boyfriend decided
    to Stop Drinking – all on his own!!!
    That alone should make me feel warm, happy and excited for a long time!!

    He just text me this morning… “This is the longest we’ve been apart in a while :-)!”
    I called him and we talked… he was warm and sweet and had already planned our date for tonight…
    last night…
    Said he’d be over around 6:00 – we’re going out to dinner and then our favorite dance spot in town!

    Thnks so much FW for pointing to My Urgency!!

    And my daughter just text me also… “Sorry, i’ve been really busy… trying to sell a horse… people coming over at noon! cross your fingers!”

  299.  #299Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 7:36 am

    April Rose and Victoria,

    Thank you for your thoughts on the signs and numbers, and assigning the meaning to them that you choose.

    Yes I’ve heard that Scorpios are bad matches, but also, J is nothing like a typical Scorpio, and I am nothing like a typical Sagittarius. Also, I believe that your moon sign is just as important as your sun sign, as well as the time and place of birth, so…

    Azure Blu, thank you also for your thoughts.

    I am fascinated by the numbers… numbers have always played a role in my life, and I do feel them to be magical or at least loaded with meaning. It’s one of the reasons I love Mathematics.

  300.  #300Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 7:37 am

    Oh Victoria,

    No, to my knowledge we’ve never had this discussion before. Not that I can recall.

  301.  #301Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 7:38 am

    Azure Blu,

    I understand how you feel, and I completely agree with Feminine Woman. There is no urgency. Just let the people in your life be for a bit.

  302.  #302Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 7:43 am

    In the soup!!! Yes… trying to get used to the everyday..
    which I have pinned for,,, longed for… visualized!!!

    But My Panic was NEVER in the dream!!!
    Panic that *I* need space…
    Panic that He needs space
    He must have been stressed and very tired also…
    He sounded soo much better this morning…
    I do
    I do feel my emotional intimacy muscles getting a little stronger… I didn’t get mad last night and act like something was wrong (my old reaction)
    I AM growing!!! AHHHHH…
    THAT feels good!

    Do we build our emotional intimacy muscles… by continuing to realizing what part is OURS!!!
    and simply staying PUT… taking our finger OFF the Panic button… self soothing… and taking space warmly and softly with love… when we know we need it?

  303.  #303Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 8:26 am

    Indigo #310
    Ahhhh… lovely, wise Siren…
    That feels like “opening the doors”!!! :-))
    “Let the people in my life “Be” for a bit!!”

  304.  #304Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 8:27 am

    Indigo… ooops meant #301

  305.  #305T-Girl on April 8, 2016 at 8:31 am

    Thank you FW! Yes, my marriage is going very well. It will be 2 years in June, can you believe it?? Not only is he a wonderful husband, but he is a fantastic father as well. We just celebrated my daughter’s 18th birthday and he treats her like a princess.

    My husband is the most positive person I know. We have had a major string of bad luck lately, well, he has. First, he was laid off. (All is well, he found another job rather quick). Then, last week our home was burglarized (he lost the most), and the day after he was rear-ended on the freeway by someone with no insurance. But through all that he remains positive and loving. He is an amazing man.

  306.  #306T-Girl on April 8, 2016 at 8:32 am

    BTW, new post up.

  307.  #307LoveToMe on April 8, 2016 at 8:32 am

    Indigo and FW – you ladies are totally right. I don’t like it, but I know you are right, and partly that is what feels bad. And it’s also part of my “set point” of assuming that all men are out to hurt me. That goes back to the problem I was discussing before, about men and sex. That once I get intimate with a man, I start hating him, or looking for reasons to shoo him off. This was something I “started.” I didn’t have to mention it at all. And yet I did. Why? I’m not sure. And why such a strong reaction? Again, I don’t know. Part of it feels right. And I probably should just let it go. I wanted this man to be on the same page as me – as we seemed to be on the same page about so many things. I felt really connected to him. And, like I said, his comments back made me feel disconnected. And I think maybe that’s what I was reacting to, more than anything. That feeling of disconnection that even now, I can’t quite put a pin in it. But either it’s real and it’s there, or it is a fear masquerading as “reality.”

    This, again, is why I am staying quiet right now. I get to work on these things and find out more about myself and how I operate.

    Also, in a totally practical sense, we rushed into a lot of things. Maybe both of us weren’t ready, and it’s ok to back off and take a break.


    The bra thing, tho. It is not just a piece of clothing. It is a personal and intimate piece of clothing. And I have no patience or tolerance for men who tell me what I should and should not wear. I just don’t feel it is in their purview. I like them to appreciate what I wear – not give me input as to what should be on me. I feel gross about that. I want to choose what I put on my body, on my face.

    I once refused a date with a guy who insisted that I not wear eye makeup, because he wanted to see what I “really look like.” That’s great for him, and I love the sentiment. But I refuse to let a man tell me what to do when it comes to decorating myself. Because if I like to wear eye makeup, and if that makes me feel fun and like “myself” then that’s what I want to do. Not wearing eye makeup simply because he asked me to would be inauthentic to me, and that’s the opposite of what he wanted to see. Plus it feels like a control move. So I said no.

  308.  #308LoveToMe on April 8, 2016 at 9:26 am

    But I have to turn this back around for a second. You ladies are defending him in a “boys will be boys” kind of way – the kind of way that excuses a man for bad behavior because, well, he doesn’t know any better.

    How about boys will be respectful. How about real men care for a woman’s feelings and aren’t going to say things that are inappropriate about the choices she makes about what she puts in her body? Saying that I “opened the door” is like saying that a woman “asked for it” when she wore a sexy outfit and gets r*ped at a party. That’s not ok. I did not “ask” him to make comments about my choice of bras. And it only bothered me because it was a pattern – he had done it before.

    And because it signifies something larger. If he feels it’s his job to weigh in on such a small choice that is personal and has to do with my body, then what about the bigger stuff? What if I got pregnant? Would he use that as a weapon against me, too? Would that be another way to control me? Would he want to make decisions for me then, too?

    Maybe you think I am out of line and blowing things out of proportion. But I am talking about how I want to be treated in bed, and if I become pregnant, how I want that to be treated also. It is a sacred act. It demands reverence and respect, in my book. I didn’t feel that from him.

    So yeah.

    I don’t like what he said, and I don’t like his response to me either.

    I had higher expectations of this guy than other guys.

    I was again thinking today of some things I want (maybe) to say to him. But I feel blocked. I can’t even bring myself to start typing a letter. I think for all the reasons above.

    I am a feminist. It would probably be a lot easier for me if I weren’t. But these are principles that I hold dearly, and I still want to believe that there is a man who can hold me in the place where I am – not where he wants me to be. And that’s what I really want (and need).

  309.  #309LoveToMe on April 8, 2016 at 9:27 am

    *on* her body…haha.

    Or in, I suppose 😉

  310.  #310Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 9:43 am

    Love to Me,

    “The bra thing, tho. It is not just a piece of clothing. It is a personal and intimate piece of clothing. And I have no patience or tolerance for men who tell me what I should and should not wear. I just don’t feel it is in their purview. I like them to appreciate what I wear – not give me input as to what should be on me. I feel gross about that. I want to choose what I put on my body, on my face.”

    “I once refused a date with a guy who insisted that I not wear eye makeup, because he wanted to see what I “really look like.”

    “But I have to turn this back around for a second. You ladies are defending him in a “boys will be boys” kind of way – the kind of way that excuses a man for bad behavior because, well, he doesn’t know any better.”

    No. What I am saying is that the behaviour isn’t bad. It isn’t disrespectful either. You invited him to play and then smacked him on the nose for not playing by your rules. Men don’t see these nuances. I can almost guarantee you he was not trying to offend you. It is not about excusing anything. It is about the intention of the thing.

    And yes, I also reserve the right to wear exactly what I want to wear how I want to wear it regardless of a man’s preferences. But if he expresses an opinion or a preference, I take it as exactly that, an opinion or a preference, not an attack, and I turn it around in a play way.

    I recently had a man tell me he wanted me to show up in something tight, with red lipstick and my hair down.

    I told him he would have to take me exactly as I come, but that I would look good and my hair would be clean at least 😉 I was making a joke, and it was my way of asserting myself without giving him a smackdown. Laughter and playfulness is great for that. Men are very sensitive to criticism. It’s something to remember.

  311.  #311Indigo on April 8, 2016 at 9:51 am

    By the way, Love to Me,

    None of this is to make you feel bad.

    From everything you’ve said, he doesn’t sound like the man for you.

  312.  #312Femininewoman on April 8, 2016 at 9:58 am

    Yes Indigo. As Bob Grant says assume the best about people if we are going to assume anything. Why would a guy that you just completed you turn around and want to be disrespectful about a bra? I think guys pay more attention to being respectful that girls do.

  313.  #313Dominique on April 8, 2016 at 10:05 am

    Azure – 294 – These may help –


  314.  #314Dominique on April 8, 2016 at 10:06 am

  315.  #315Liquid Light on April 8, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    Update on my date last night.

    Had another amazing date with K. We went to an art opening which was really fun. He’s very outgoing and kept talking to random strangers. He makes instant friends. Its sweet but hadn’t seen that side of him that much before. Now I know him a bit better.

    I was intrigued about some stories he told me previously about his work. I inquired more about them because his success that he’s had in business is quite astonishing. It was fascinating to hear him talk about how he accomplishes these amazing projects that he conjures up out of thin air. He said he doesn’t do it, that it happens through him. He just the conduit. I’ve never heard anyone speak like that but I could tell it was the most natural process to him. So cool!

    We then went to one of the best restaurants in the area for dinner. The food and ambiance were incredible and so romantic. We had more wine (need to watch that because we both love wine a lot LOL) and talked again on a deeper level. We really connect so well. I love his mind and he said he loves mine too!

    I was also spot on about the physical stuff. He said that he really liked me but was concerned about our physical connection on our previous date. But then said when we made out in the car at the end of the date, he felt better about it. It was really cute. But also a bit uncomfortable. I’m still getting used to being so open about talking about everything. Its not what I’m used to. Probably just need to communicate with him that sometimes I don’t want to communicate LOL. And actually he’s very open and respectful about anything that I want/request.

    I’m feeling an amazing connection on an intellectual and emotional level, but still struggling with the physical aspect a bit so when he brought it up, it touched a nerve. I’m really hoping that this won’t prevent our connection from continuing to grow. Because I find everything else about our time together to be absolutely incredible! Help! Any thoughts?

  316.  #316Azure Blu on April 8, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    Ahhh… lovely Goddess!!
    Thank you… this was just EXACTLY what I needed…

    I feel so good reading from your intimacy and withdrawal post…
    This especially felt sooo warm – like a soft summer breeze…
    You wrote:
    “Remember though that as you and he become increasingly close
    and thus more intimate, you will also continue to be going more deeply into these triggers
    which may at any time still cause temporary withdrawal.
    When you learn to recognize your patterns as well as his,
    which will unfold naturally as your awareness grows and becomes more finely tuned,
    you will also find that though withdrawal will still feel bad,
    whether it’s yours or his,
    having this knowledge/awareness
    WILL take a very large edge off of those initial, go to awful, panicky feelings.
    AND you will likely rebalance far more readily and easily.

    And with each episode, you ARE healing another layer,
    and with each healing layer,
    you’re also bringing you both closer still and even more deeply into intimacy.”

    I feel that is what happened this time…
    Spirit and I had experienced an amazingly close 3 days together… such fun, such heart closeness such ecstacy!!

    so we both needed space… i was affraid it was only me…
    and neither one of us freaked out (out loud)
    and then Spirit lead the way this morning by
    talking about the space we took…
    I do love this man…

    thank you Dominique for so generously sharing sooo much helpful information!!
    Love and huggs!

  317.  #317Dominique on April 8, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    You are so very welcome Azure.

    Love to you.


  318.  #318Azure Blu on April 11, 2016 at 4:58 am

    April Rose.. #275
    This sounds sooo deep and feminine…
    it is soo good to hear about actual times of letting our feelings flow in front of a man…
    I need MORE practice…
    Sooo magical what you shared!
    Thank you