Our Flaws Are Where The Love Is…

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save relationshipI just finished a powerful Skype session with a client where I basically “snuck up” on her and created tension between us – on purpose.

Why did I do that?

Sometimes, we’re so in our heads, and our defense systems are so vigilant, it’s hard for us to commit to what it takes to get what we want in love.

And by this, I mean, letting ourselves “all hang out,” without censure, judgment, containment fields, mental reasoning, theoretical explanations, blame or excuses.

Not the easiest of tasks for anyone – and for those of us who are most comfortable in our heads, placing blame, thinking things through, judging ourselves and trying, above all else, to be reasonable, mature, sophisticated, flawless and “put together,” it can be a tangle of baby-steps in a new direction mixed with yanks back to where we once were.

If you’re getting coached by me, or one of my new Rori Raye Relationship Coaches – you may WANT love and relationship, and you may GET how my system works and want to work with it – AND, yet, your insides, down to the cells of your body, are conditioned to believe the exact opposite.

What YOU may think of as “love” – your mind and body may think of as “danger.”

What YOU may think of as heart-filled emotion, romance, and sensationally attractive vulnerability – your mind and body may think of as unacceptable, childish, embarrassing, flawed and dangerous risks.

And your mind and body, trained over your whole life, will ALWAYS win.

With a client, and in my letters and programs, my Tools are designed to break this log-jam in the simplest, quickest ways possible.

By appealing to the mind and body in ways that don’t “get it all excited and activated,” that don’t “bait” it into “attack” mode, what we’re doing in the Rori Raye Method is to sort of “slide by” your defense system.

To enlist it, if we can, to get it to follow along quietly as a nice “middle ground,” and to SNEAK BY it if we must!

This requires tip-toes.

It requires an absolute knowledge that your conditioned training in life up to this point has led you in directions that have worked out brilliantly in some ways, and not up to what you wish in others.

And it requires the absolute knowledge that “talking” to your inner world, and trying to “reason” with it will not work any better than it has up to now.

The Tools work through EXPERIENCE.

Circular Dating is an experiential, experimental way to practice enlisting, leading quietly, or sneaking by your defense mechanism.

And coaching is a primo art in helping you to experience what that feels like.

If I warn you – you’ll see me coming.

Most of the time – this is what I do – let you know I’m coming! You watch my programs over and over, and you get so used to the Modern Siren experience, or following me in “falling in love” with your Nasty Voice and your inner “Stranger,” that it slowly shifts your entire defense structure and belief system.

All of a sudden, you realize you have a new “Normal.” You have a new perception of yourself, of men, of love, and how you want to BE in this world.

You practice Circular Dating until it becomes second nature, and you stop resisting what shows up at any given moment.

You learn by doing.

You actually learn how to Just BE by “doing” the Tools.

A nice way to engage ALL of you at once.

And – sometimes – your head is so strong, so leading you, that you can believe you’re moving forward, when, actually, your head is fooling you in very clever ways.

Sometimes it’s able to convince you that what you see is “new,” when, actually, it’s the same-old-same-old, wrapped in a new package.

Here’s what I wrote my client afterwards:

“…Hope you’re feeling good after our session and got a lot out of it. I can tell you now…

You likely got by the end that I was working to actually CREATE an intense experience, a real one, between us, and provoke and push you and stress you, so we could work in a real-world situation.

It sort of built for me as we went along, that if you’re going to pay me the big bucks, I’d better do some pretty spectacular stuff that no one else can do….and as I pushed you, I could see and hear what’s happening for you that made you want to work with me.

I also realize that working this way, without preparing you or warning you (then it wouldn’t have felt real to you…) can create a situation where you feel unsafe with me, so this is where I get to take big leaps and chance your never even coming back!

What I hope is that you see where you go under stress.

Here are the written instructions for the “Mirror Work” we began on our Skype screens:

As much as you can throughout the day – just a few seconds at a time – whenever you see yourself reflected in your phone, in a wall mirror, in your car mirror, in a bathroom mirror:

1. Keep your eyes on your eyes.

Do NOT let them wander anywhere else, ever.

2. When you see your eyes go off – up, sideways, down – bring them back to your eyes.

Know that when this happens, you’re looking for an “answer” from somewhere outside.

This answer can be from a memory you’re pulling out of your head, or a thought you’re working on in your head – AND…

…It’s not coming from the place you need it to come from: Inside Yourself.

To help you, imagine yourself looking for your answer deep inside you:

3. Take your attention, let it fall backward down your throat, into your stomach, into your belly, into the tissues of your body, and look for the answer there as a FEELING.

If a VERY SPECIFIC feeling doesn’t come easily to you, find a SENSATION.

4. SPEAK THAT Feeling or Sensation OUT LOUD to yourself.

Once you’re able to do this for long stretches with yourself in the mirror, you’ll find yourself automatically doing it with OTHER people!

Not only will you realize that keeping eye contact and Speaking What You Feel isn’t all that hard anymore, you’ll start to feel more relaxed. You’ll start to feel more confident.

This will build your confidence like nothing else.

Sometimes it takes intensity and stress to bring out the “Triggers.”

If you’re focused on being very “put together” and “flawless,” it’s my job to help you experience what shutting down, closing up and hiding from your deeper feelings actually feels like – and how to counter” that move being made by your defense system.

We are all such nice, lovely women, that it can be challenging to “get” how messy real life and emotions really are – and how beneficial that “messiness” is to romantic love.

AND, to get how “non-beneficial” being “put together” is.

We only have to look at romance novel heroines to see this – the more flawed they are, the better.

Yet, most of us can’t stand to see ourselves as “flawed.” And, this is what stands in our way.

Our Happy Ever After lies “beyond pleasant” and into what will WORK for us.

Sometimes, what we can’t see and don’t want to know about ourselves is scary.

And – that’s where both our blocks to love, and our KEYS to love LIVE.

If you’d like to be matched up with a Rori Raye trained coach who’ll give you a free session, and both tell you the truth as she sees it AND create an amazingly SAFE place for you to confront your fears and stuck places with her guidance and care – let Melanie@CoachRori.com know, and I’ll personally answer you back with my recommendations.

Love, Rori





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  1.  #1Lisa on December 2, 2013 at 7:38 am

    I loved this post Rori! Keep my eyes on my eyes… I’ve had other ways of looking deep inside me for answers but I’ve never tried this one.

    I totally agree!


  2.  #2Mercedes on December 2, 2013 at 8:09 am

    I took at leap of faith. I gave two weeks notice at my job!!!

    I’m going to focus 100% of my work energy on my new business. I’m terrified and excited. I have worked in my same industry (and love it for the most part) for more than 20 years. Wow! I can’t even believe I’m making this happen for me.


    Much Love,

  3.  #3Dominique on December 2, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Mercedes – I already wrote you, yet I wanted to take another opportunity to tell you YAY!!!


  4.  #4Femininewoman on December 2, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Congrats Mercedes.

  5.  #5CurvySiren10 on December 2, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Amazing Mercedes! I am envious 🙂 Congrats to you!

  6.  #6Iris on December 2, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Great post! This post helped make me feel a bit relaxed after a few weeks of feeling disconnected from my heart.

    So I’ve been practicing Circular Dating, and while in the past few months it has helped me self-heal and expand my perspective, I have been feeling very sad that I have been in my head recently, and less connected to my heart.

    Lately, I have encountered some triggers in my experience of CDing, and I notice that some of my old patterns of thinking are re-surfacing. Much more, I realize now how much I really feel scared to be loved.

    I have so many men all around me, and yet I don’t feel connected to any of them. Overall, I just feel confused, sad, lost, and resistant. And what bothers me the most is I feel this urgency to want these triggers to go away.

  7.  #7Indigo on December 2, 2013 at 10:41 am


    I know that feeling. For me, it was a message to slow down, to stop trying to find things to plaster over and avoid feeling the pain.

    To learn my heart’s own pace, not the speed I thought I “should” be going at.

    I finally told my heart, even if it takes years, I will give you the time you need.

  8.  #8Dominique on December 2, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Iris – You can’t get it wrong whatever “it” is. So you’ve been in your head lately more than you would prefer. Can you tell yourself that there is nothing to feel badly about? It is what it is, and maybe this is where you have needed to be right now?.And it won’t last anyway. One thing you can count on is change.

    And can you gently keep redirecting back into your heart if this is where you want to be?

    You don’t have to feel a connection to anyone right now or at any particular time. You can continue to remain open and curious no matter what happens. Look for nuggets of joy even if this man in front of you doesn’t do it for you. He does have a gift for you. Can you find it?

    How about loving on your confusion, sadness, resistance, and sense of feeling lost? These feeling are as much a part of you as the others. And they are beautiful and worthy of your love too. The more you allow them, the more space you create for them to move on through you, so a better feeling feeling might take its place.


  9.  #9Cris on December 2, 2013 at 11:41 am

    It seems all the advice for a happy life is based on that “not thinking too much” and mindfulness. Hard work indeed 🙂

  10.  #10Amazed on December 2, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Love this post…really where I am right now. I think I do try to pretend everything in my little world is fine because it’s less painful and flawed to feel that way….

  11.  #11Miss Bells on December 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    I am living with HS again, but it is very different. The time came when I was no longer will to spend nearly $1000 a month on a place I spent only two nights a month in, if that. And now that I am traveling for work, even less.I got a storage unit for the overflow of my stuff. We didn’t really talk about it, it just evolved.
    HS was interested in me making a contributions so we settled on $400 but only if I am at home. If I am traveling I don’t pay anything.
    Meanwhile, we have been talking about what is next. If the market goes up enough it makes sense for him to sell the house. I have suggested to him that we could do ANYTHING. And go anywhere.
    All the old tension is gone.
    As for CDing–for me it is not about doing something but rather about being open to the world and the people in it. When I am traveling I meet all kinds of people and try to remain present to all of the experiences. I usually take the train which is a very social way to travel. And I stay at hostels and couch-surf. So I am getting a very full experience.
    But when I am home I am home…

  12.  #12Iris on December 2, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Indigo and Dominique,

    Thank you for sharing. It feels wonderful to feel supported. I am new to commenting, but I feel like I am being welcomed. Thanks, Sirens!


    Appropriate that you say, “a happy life is based on that “not thinking too much” and mindfulness.” So very true! Back to what Dominique said about, “maybe this is where you have needed to be right now”–I think one reason is that I have stumbled upon an opportunity to practice “not doing anything”; and “just being.”

  13.  #13Mercedes on December 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Thank you so much ladies! I can’t believe how excited and amazed and (insert all other emotions) I feel right now! 🙂

    Much Love,

  14.  #14Joy on December 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    *Processing triggers / feelings*

    What a soup of emotions
    To meet my “perfect” man and have it all be a lie
    Wow blindsided
    Blindsided feels scary
    Like when Dad died — boom
    Abandonment, gone.
    But I had a lesson here with “perfect/life man”: stay openhearted.
    And I did, and it hurt so bad, but I bounced back fast. Hooray! New men, new men, lots of arrows.
    I didn’t lean forward, but I didn’t lean back.
    I met half-way, and that was leaning forward after all it seems.
    It can all turn around on a dime.
    Patience! Patience! It takes patience to lean back and let ’em either man up or smoke themselves out.
    Abandonment triggers / loneliness come up in the spaces, days, months, forevers between texts, phone calls, dates.
    Frustration that they’re not stepping up the way I want them to and on MY time table.
    Patience! Patience! It takes patience to lean back and let ’em either man up or smoke themselves out.

    I feel abandoned when men aren’t coming at me full court press. I feel even more abandoned when men disappear or fade away.
    I love my feelings of abandonment, they feel empty and not good enough and unworthy and ugly and awful and alone and shellshocked and frightened and hopeless.
    And that feels scary and bad, and I don’t want to feel scary and bad.
    I love the scary, bad feelings. I love my inner cavewoman, ready to lash out with a sharpened rock to protect my soft, soft heart.
    But my soft, soft heart has steel inside, so it will all be OK. I can stay openhearted and unprotected and nonjudging and compassionate!!! I love that about me!!

  15.  #15Zia on December 2, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    LOVE this post!

  16.  #16LoveAlways on December 2, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Rori, this exercise also triggers the “stranger” in me (from Toxic Men)!

  17.  #17angela on December 2, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    This feels more beautiful and simple. Thank you Rori. I feel peaceful. 🙂

  18.  #18Millie on December 2, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    I feel so tired right now….but I want to share.
    I spent the night with Mechanic last night. I didn’t intend to, but my subconscious wanted to and he invited me to stay. There is something about this man…I feel enamored with who he is…I LOVE talking with him, and flirting with him, being with him. We slept together, my curiosity was well satisfied, and I’m left with feeling now what? Now what do I do with my feelings? Not due to the sex, but due to the fact we aren’t dating and I WANT TO DATE HIM. It would feel so good if he wanted to date me too! But if he did, I’m sure he would have made that a point. I want my vibe to be superstrong but how can it be if I have these feelings for him? I still want to have a “no friends with benefits” speech, but I find myself wanting to do that to open up the floor now….to the possibility of dating. I think there is something inside me that is off…that is attracted to men who like me, are attracted to me, enjoy me, but don’t necessarily want to date me. I want to have a conversation with him, but since we are friends and will see each other in social settings, I don’t want to lessen my vibe or make it awkward. I’m glad I slept with him and of course I want to do it again….but once I can handle…numerous times over time without dating, I can’t. I don’t know….having these feelings really destroys any authenticity the vibe of “maybe” would have.

  19.  #19Tereana on December 2, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    A super new post!

    I love the mirror tool.

    And Mercedes, that sounds so exciting!! And scary. but in a good way. Congratulations 🙂


    Thank you for all the support, ladies!

    Tonight, I did something for myself. I applied for a (third) job. I don’t need it. It’s just for fun. But doing that felt like doing something productive for myself. Took my mind off “the guy.” And it made me feel less “desperate.”

    I like this idea of feeling messy and imperfect. It sounds interesting and true, that’s where the real opportunities for love and romance lie….

    ‘Night, sirens

  20.  #20Syreena on December 2, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    Something I want to share and feel concerned about re using men as free therapy/ therapists. And not going the a qualified professional therapist.

    If I were to go to a qualified professional acredited therapist/counsellor there would be a contract between us where the therapist was bound by a code of practice ethics making it a safe environment and relationship to open up in and would also be trained to not use what I had opened up about in my vulnerable moments to manipulate me. Also would be trained not to leave me in an open and vulnerable state before leaving the session which if they did could be dangerous.

    Random men/people on the other hand are not contractually bound by this code of ethics or trained therapists
    So by people opening up in these circumstances could leave themselves wide open to being abused and having what they have said used against them or to coerce and manipulate. Also leaving them vulnerable raw an open state, rather than having the training of how to help bring them back to a less open vulnerable place. As it’s knowing when and who it is ok to share and be vulnerable and open with and knowing when that is not in the persons best interest or safe to do so. And most likely the people who need the most help on this are the ones who will not know when and when not to do this. And will need a lot guidance with this.

  21.  #21Cris on December 3, 2013 at 12:53 am

    @Iris, thanks 🙂

  22.  #22Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 4:54 am

    Syreena #20 – that is a valid concern, but men are not “free therapists.” The experience is free therapy, in that, we get to do our own inner work, in their presence, and they don’t even know that they are helping us!

    If what you need is s therapist, then by all means, go and get one. The “therapy” we get from circular dating is of a different variety, but sometimes is comes with similar benefits. One of those is that it is free and sometimes we get dinner out of it ; )

    But we should not be dumping our issues in our men and expecting them to deliver qualified counseling. That’s not what “free therapy” means.

    Happy dating! 🙂

  23.  #23Lisa on December 3, 2013 at 4:56 am

    @Mercedes that is wonderful so happy to hear! Yay!

    @ Millie {{{hugs}}} <3

    "S" came over last night b/c some weird man called me and ask strange questions about things, got my number off the web… that felt good even though he was sick with a cold and wanted to be in bed he stayed but then went home to sleep.

    I have feelings for this man, and they are not falling in love kind of feelings… and I think that I've gotten clearer on why: ambiguous about setting dates.. he has gotten better this sunday he ask me for the rest of the week… but he also isn't putting any effort into planning them and that feels very off putting to me… like maybe he is saying one thing and doing another…. and he has blown off meeting my oldest daughter… he wanted to but then when she wanted to do it at another time he shut down.

    He tells me he loves me…. and yet, I'm not totally convinced yet, it is for the right reasons…but time will tell.

    I'm keeping my eyes open and also realizing that it is still very new…and too soon to know for sure..

    He told me last night that "I totally rock his world".

    And I'm so proud of me for not getting attached yet, as Rori says until there is a commitment etc… and I'm proud of me for not feeling obligated to say I love you back… and waiting on it to be real for me….


  24.  #24Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 4:58 am

    Hm, slow on the blog today.

    This morning I feel heavy and my muscles are sore from the intense yoga practice I had yesterday. Sore in a good way.

    I still haven’t written to the man. But the idea hasn’t left me. Which means, I think there could be a reason or something I need to communicate in order to feel “complete” and truly let it go. But I’m giving myself time to craft what I want to say and to say it well and succinctly.

    And this morning I feel too tired anyway.

    There is time

  25.  #25Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 5:00 am

    Lisa – that sounds awesome! Seems like you are doing great 🙂

  26.  #26Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 5:23 am

    Mercedes – Much strength to you in your new adventure!

  27.  #27Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 5:49 am

    Oh man, today is stretching me into all sorts of feelings. A mutual friend asked about BM and I felt icky – pain too, but I was open about it and didn’t stuff my feelings yet didn’t kiss and tell either, yay to some self-respect. He was shocked that BM wasn’t keeping in contact and I thought yes, that is what it is.

    My friend got me Rori’s book as a thank you present – I really struggled with some parts. Saying that I wanted marriage/deeply committed relationship was like I was being asked to put my hand in a blender. All I could think about was pain. I was in tears – I kept saying to myself ‘not if I’m the only one who wants it, that would be like a living death, I don’t want to go through that’. I do really like the idea of committing to relationship, that’s given me good direction.

    Another friend who knew me while I was with BM asked me how I was doing and I’m kind of avoiding answering her – I feel shaky.

  28.  #28Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 6:17 am

    Oh and I also love the description of being all wrapped with a ‘leaf’ when I should be busy with the forest – that is so me right now.

  29.  #29Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 6:48 am

    Hi tereana! Wow a third job that sounds busy! Sounds like me. I have two jobs and sometimes I think about quitting the part time one but it does keep me busy. I feel curious about my need to stay busy. I can slip into lonely sadness if I have too much idle time.

  30.  #30Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 7:04 am

    This morning I woke up with feelings of missing my ex and the fun of spending holiday events together…he was boring and I didn’t really *love* him but I miss the feeling of having a partner and someone there with me. He was soo devoted. We did a lot if fun things together but my heart was never really in it….
    I felt empty and inauthentic ….ended up staying with him due to my inability to be honest…
    But I miss Christmas shopping with someone and getting dressed cute for Christmas parties and visiting family together…
    I’ve gotten used to being alone but it’s still so sad sometimes I get really melancholy…
    Why haven’t I met someone new who is stepping up…maybe I haven’t been ready but I think I’m ready now.
    It feels like alot of work to deal with the fear.
    I want to feel light and breezy.
    I feel that way when I’m eating right.
    Really it makes a huge difference.
    I’m just unloading here in the blog ladies… Hope u don’t mind…

  31.  #31Syreena on December 3, 2013 at 7:04 am

    Feeling misunderstood about my free therapy post.


  32.  #32Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 7:16 am

    Thanks rori for the eyes in the mirror tool, can’t wait to use it…I’ve been so busy with work and I feel so thankful for the employment…
    I have some really good friends around me too…
    I see one if my friends struggling with her husband who is irresponsible. I feel turned off by irresponsible men.

    CutecityCD still gets to me a little. I wish I wish I wish…. I got blowtorched by him…so much attention and intensity in the start and then fizzle…
    I have to let things to when they fizzle but it’s not easy for me because I get invested too soon and get excited about someone before things are established.
    Thanks for letting me vent here on the blog.

    I’m going out today to create a new reality for myself yaaay!
    I’m going to a coffee shop to do done work do maybe I will meet someone new, you never know!

  33.  #33Cris on December 3, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Hi @Lisa!

    maybe this good man that is around you is not a good date planner… a lot of men aren’t…
    But as he loves you and helps you and make you feel great, the question is: does it matter? I don´t think so and I am learning now that, being open and grateful can substitute those needs. If I want a bunch of roses, I don´t expect my partner to buy them: I do it by my own. But if he smiles me a bit more everyday and takes my hand a bit warmer… that’s great now for me!

    “Expectation is the root of all heartache” …. I love that cuote by Shakespeare (as it is said)…


  34.  #34Femininewoman on December 3, 2013 at 7:48 am

    RE 22 “But we should not be dumping our issues in our men and expecting them to deliver qualified counseling. That’s not what “free therapy” means.”

    Is there a like button!!!:)

  35.  #35Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Sirens and rori how do you approach a man (when in a relationship) who is corresponding inappropriately with other women?
    How to address the issue??

  36.  #36Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 8:25 am

    I’m just curious because I want to be able to handle something like this without “drama”…

  37.  #37Femininewoman on December 3, 2013 at 8:34 am

    From Rori’s email:-

    “A. Regina – you aren’t going to like this. It’s tough love, so don’t read if you don’t want to hear it. You’re in a “friends with benefits” situation, and you’ve been there a long, long time.

    The “losing” of him (if you ever actually “had” him, and I don’t believe you did) happened a long time ago. He’s long gone.

    Some men don’t need more than what he has with you right now. There may not be another woman. There may be many other women. There may not be another woman for years. Makes no difference. He may never be into ANY woman. He may frequent prostitutes for all you know. Every time you sleep with him you are physically endangering yourself (I hope you’re using condoms).

    Here’s what I want you to do – and if you decided to read this, know that I’m here to help you to stay strong:
    1. Drop Him Out Of Your Life. Completely. NO CONTACT.

    This means – no gym unless you’re sure he’s not there. Best thing to do is take a month’s free trial at another gym, perhaps some interesting dance classes, something new, but if you can’t, then make sure you go when he’s NOT going to be there.

    Same with the fire department. Take a month off, or make SURE he’s not going to be there.

    Yes – he’ll complain. He’ll show up on your doorstep. He’ll call you. He’ll try to belittle you, he’ll call you crazy, he’ll get angry, he’ll try to make your life hell until you start sleeping with him again and being his friend.

    You’re going to have to be very, very strong and tell him this:

    “I feel so bad, so vulnerable, so lost and sad. I feel like I haven’t taken care of myself. I can’t handle seeing you. It feels too bad. I can’t be your friend, and I don’t want to be your friend until I no longer feel attached to you. So please don’t call me again, or come over.”

    And if he DOES call, or shows up at your home, I suggest strongly that you hang up the phone, slam the door before he says ANYTHING. If you need protection, call the police.

    Yes – I’m totally serious here. You are – and I’m going to start a series about this, because I use this harsh terminology with my clients all the time since it’s very helpful to see it from this perspective – you are a JUNKIE.

    He’s like the needle you can’t wait to stick in your arm. You’re giving him your body, your heart, your friendship. And for what? For the thrill he gives you when he’s with you.

    Same with heroin. It makes you high, and then it destroys your life. But you can’t let go of wanting the “fix.” He’s your “fix.”

    Regina – I want you to take a square look at what is really happening here – a “nice and friendly” version of the classic “booty call,” and then, I want you to….
    2. DATE!

    Every single man who even looks at you kindly, I want you to smile back at him. I want you to take every invitation you get to anywhere. I want you out of the house and in the company of some man.

    I want you to experience what it feels like to be with a man who is not like heroin. Yeah, maybe a boring man, maybe a quiet man, maybe a not-so-sexy man, maybe a man you can’t or won’t fall in love with.

    This man is not toxic in himself. He may be a very nice man. But he’s heroin for you. There is no “easing out of this.” Cold turkey is your only option here”

  38.  #38Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 9:18 am

    I get paid on Friday and I’m going to treat myself to a lovely mani/pedi!
    And tanning!
    I always feel better with that ..
    Taking care of me!

  39.  #39Lisa on December 3, 2013 at 9:18 am

    @Tereana Thanks! <3 That feels good to hear! 🙂

    @Cris I will work on that….and see how that feels… and yes, keep that in mind…

    @Syreena <3 I know! {{{hugs}}}

    today my feelings opened up… and tears came… I realize I have trust issues with men, not really big ones, but still, trust issues… and "S" I trust. Yet, I could work on trusting more… trusting my higher power ( whatever name someone uses) myself, and whatever man I'm with ( if he is trustworthy). Trusting life!

    Dr is doing panels on me for possible cancer. I'm a little concerned… but not freaking out… as I've done so much research on Cancer, that I feel very confident, if I have it, I'll beat it… and that feels good to have that layer.

    The time has come for me to totally throw down my armor and trust with everything I have… trust that life will unfold for me… and all that I had is in the past now… and I'm ready, willing and so able to have a new life, future of happiness and true love! just sayin!


  40.  #40Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 9:20 am

    He he and it occurred to me later on how I had been reading a conversation between poets about beauty and the example they used: a leaf. Ha ha the timing!! I remember thinking how I love foliage and wanted to make a garden of my own with the most beautiful foliaged trees and then watch what the light does with them. I do agree that the chesnut leaf is beautiful but as for love life metaphors, forests is what I’ll be looking for. For now I’m finding this hilarious.

  41.  #41Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 9:21 am


  42.  #42Syreena on December 3, 2013 at 9:39 am

    TY lisa.
    Hugs back.

    I feel fine about not being understood.
    I don’t want to bother explaining and trying to get people to understand feels too draining of my energy.

    Feels best to do something that feels good and energizes me.

    I feel happy and good now.

  43.  #43daria on December 3, 2013 at 10:17 am

    so excited! finally a way to work with the looking him in the eye part… yay i feel excited for this and i feel confident doing self work and mirror work

  44.  #44Liquid Light on December 3, 2013 at 10:23 am

    I’m definitely seeing how expressing vulnerability really draws men in fast. I’ve been on first dates and cried and not only have the men not been turned off (I used to think this would make them run) but they actually love it. I’m also seeing how it draws men in that I’m not interested in. Looking at using this as a tool selectively to draw the men in that I want to draw in. It almost feels like its like a science that can be applied to get the desired results. Not sure if that’s what Rori intended or not but its opening up a whole new way of relating to men in a much more powerful way.

  45.  #45Turquoise on December 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Well…. I’m actually CDing.. going on real dates with multiple men at the same time. I feel pretty good about it. My sister thinks it’s “bad”. she doesn’t understand how I can do that or why I’d want to. But she’s been in the wrong relationship for over 2 years, with a man she repeatedly says she doesn’t want…. and I can’t imagine that either. So, know it’s ok to disagree…. and will continue to CD as long as it feels good. I actually had two dates Friday. I had a dinner date with a new guy. He baked me cookies and took me to dinner. IT was nice. Then Mr. Conversation and I went to the movies and hung out. That felt nice too. Sweetheart really wants to see me, but I have a lot going on this week. May wait until the weekend.

  46.  #46Cupcake on December 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Hi, Sirens-

    I thought I posted last night on the last thread, and now I don’t see that post. Is there a lag time if you’re a new poster?

    I’ve just moved to a new city, and I’m just starting out here. It’s good timing because I had a recent disappointment with a long distance guy who did a lot of future talking and then balked when it came to the choice of if I move to HIS city, or the city where I am now. He suddenly didn’t want a relationship. At least not with me, because I see his profile is back online.

    Anyway, I’m starting out CDing here and last night I posted about the three dates I went on over the weekend. The only one that was fun at all– and it felt fun in a weird way- was the last one. We went for a walk by a lake, and the conversation was very hard going until I said, “Wow, this conversation feels very jumpy aroundy to me, and I feel like we’re both dribbling our own basketballs down the court, not really playing hoops with each other. What about you?”

    It had been such an awkward conversation before that that I figured I’d never see the guy again anyway, so I just blurted that out as an experiment.

    He got a little defensive at first, but then we actually started talking about how weird the conversation felt for us both, and it ended up changing the dynamic of the date entirely.

    Sadly, I still don’t think I want to see him again– and that’s why I am writing to you guys for input. He emailed me immediately after the date and wants to see me again asap. The thing is, he showed up with a 20oz plastic cup with a straw, which I assumed had iced tea or something in it. As we walked and talked, I realized that the plastic cup wasn’t tea or soda– it was red wine. A big ol’ Slurpee cup of it. And he also brought a bottle of wine in case we wanted to stop in a park and have some wine. And he also went into a convenience store and bought a 20 oz can of Fosters, which he drank.

    As I type this, I’m thinking, “Yeah…serious red flags here.” I had an alcoholic boyfriend once. I don’t want to repeat that. But can you guys just give a shout out about this, because I know I’m incredibly picky and I also am still comparing everyone to the guy who didn’t step up, who was really wonderful and everything I wanted on so many levels. (I mean, seriously, everything I wanted. And a grown up. And a moderate drinker. And genuinely concerned about my feelings, up to and after he told me he didn’t want a relationship after all. He had been a friend first, sort of. Long story. Another time.)

    Oh, and Mr. 20oz Slurpee cup of wine kissed me as I was leaving. I wanted to be kissed by somebody who wasn’t the guy who didn’t step up, so I let him. And it was a decent kiss (although what is it with guys who use their teeth? Does anybody like that?)- but now I’ve been sort of woozey and in bed fighting off a cold all day. You’d think the alcohol would have killed off any germs, but I guess not!

    So what do you think, Sirens? Definitely no second date because he’s probably a serious alcoholic? (The date was at 2 in the afternoon, FYI. If that makes any difference.)

    I appreciate your input and get a lot out of your letters.



  47.  #47Cris on December 3, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @Cupcake ( love your nickname), yes it seems that he drinks more than usual and very early for wine (2 pm) ..
    in my country (Spain) we never drink wine without eating… that sounds strange too

    good luck


  48.  #48Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Hi Cris,
    I love Spain!!!
    I’ve been there once, Aw I love it so much…was just thinking once I get some vacation time saved up, I want to go to Spain <3

  49.  #49Cris on December 3, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Oh @Emerson, nice!! you will be very welcome!!!

  50.  #50Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Thanks Cris!

    Aw sirens I feel prickly…
    but it’s ok I’m allowing myself to feel this way!
    I am going to go home and fix myself some nice tea and toast…yes that sounds good!
    I need to take care of me.
    I’m going to relax and watch tv.
    And plan my week.

  51.  #51Zia on December 3, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Hey ladies!

    A great post by one of my favourite men 🙂



  52.  #52Zia on December 3, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Cupcake 46 – Yes – to me that all feels a bit weird with the alcohol.. it’s one thing to go to a bar and order a few drinks, but to walk around with a slurpee cup and then get beer as well feels super weird! You COULD give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was nervous but….. I guess if you went on another date you’d get a better idea of it!

  53.  #53Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    Hi sirens
    I’m doing good with leaning back.
    I’m not initiating any texts to my so called CDs. Sometimes I lean forward when I feel lonely, but this week is a new start.
    No more. I even feel a bit distant from recycledCD like I don’t really care.
    I’m fed up.
    So just focusing on me.
    Customizing my self.

  54.  #54LM on December 3, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    One thing I can say about myself is that My Gut is Never Wrong. And I tend to ignore the poor girl, anyway, with often disastrous results. The Slurpee cup of alcohol obviously tripped your “gut” trigger and my advice would be to never ignore your gut. A man who drinks that casually in my presence on a first date most likely has worse habits/addictions that he would not reveal until further down the road. My gut would be screaming “RUN” “AWAY!” But it is easier to feel that way through a computer screen, rather than on an actual date. I wonder if the alcohol is what was making things awkward?

    Also, a technical question. How do I subscribe to the blog so that I get a notification when Rori has posted a new entry? I only get notified when people respond AFTER one of my posts. I wondered how to know that a new post is up for reading.

  55.  #55Lisa on December 3, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    @LM right on! My gut is never wrong either and though I’m a trusting person, every time I’ve ignored my gut to give a benefit of a doubt in spite of what my gut felt, my gut is always right..<3 ( and I'm saying this as I'm hearing Ok so what's up with you now, your not listening to it)

    and sometimes for me, trusting until I have proof, doesn't work for me….listening to me, works….


  56.  #56LM on December 3, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Here is a Great article!


    I have found that I trust people that I shouldn’t and I often DON’T trust mySELF. This is rooted in my traumatic childhood of abuse, belittling, and emotional neglect. I trained myself to ignore my little voice in order to survive a crazy, horrible situation. And hence, I’ve become a victim over and over… No more!

  57.  #57Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    I’m not sure if I want to even respond to men messaging me who list casual sex as something they’re looking for. Right now I’m just ignoring them since I wonder if I respond in any way that they’ll just carry on messaging me/think everything’s fine.

    Also, there’s an option to say if I’m a creative type – although I do want to meet more creative people, I am so wary of having to deal with feminine men. I very recently worked with some and it feels so arduous to even be around them. yuck.

  58.  #58Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    Mandy – I replied to you on the previous thread, but I’m posting here in case you miss it : )

    That is so cool you lost all that weight! And with the haircut, you must feel fabulous 🙂

    Of course, even if you feel great, sometimes change – even positive change – can be hard on a man, if he already loves you (even if he likes the new way you look.) Sometimes guys can be insecure if they think you might be looking to find a “better” guy than him. Don’t assume that’s how he feels. He may not even be able to articulate it. But it might be a good idea to check in with him and see if he does have any feelings about it, good or bad. At least you can let him know that the change is for you, not anyone else, and that it would feel good to have his support. Hopefully he already does support you. And… if his insecurities take over and he can’t handle the new, super-sexy and confident you, then that is actually his problem, not yours. You really can’t expect that he will “work on himself.” But it’s good that you are trying the couples therapy.

    You’re doing great!

  59.  #59Syreena on December 3, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Veronica, shows you where they are at emotionally immature and are ok to use womens bodies for sex.
    If you don’t want that it appears to be quite a biggy not to be a match on.

  60.  #60Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Emerson – Hi! Yeah, it does sound busy. But for some reason, I find that I thrive best when I have multiple jobs/projects. At least two or three. But not really more than that, as I get too spread out. It actually helps me keep focus on each one by “switching hats.”

    The one primary job I have right now is one that I can increase or decrease hours, as I like. But the drawbacks are that it is very sedentary, and requires a lot of concentration and brain power, so it’s draining. I can only do so much. The second job I have is online, and I need to build up my clientele before that gets to be lucrative. But of all jobs, that would be the one that will earn me the most money – and will be the most fun!

    If you guys want to check me out, I am a stylist online. For spam/bot reasons, I don’t want to post the link here right now. Maybe I will change my mind. But if anyone would like to see, you can message me at sirentiffany@gmail.com : )

    The third job is style-related as well. I am applying for a seasonal retail position in fashion. It could be perfect for me. It will get me on my feet, moving around, working with customers. I love working with people face-to-face. And I like this company. Maybe it could turn into something more long-term. Who knows? But it feels good at least to know that I have options. I don’t absolutely need this job. But it could help boost my inspiration with clients that I’m styling online, and keep me connected. So no matter what, I’ll be okay!

    Btw, Emerson, I loved our post about all the things you’ll do to take care of yourself when you get paid on Friday. I know it was for you, but it made me smile! 🙂

  61.  #61Syreena on December 3, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Cupcake. As others have said your gut is your intuition on this and where trust comes from.

  62.  #62Linda G on December 3, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    I have been experimenting wih the mirror exercise. I never realzed how infrequently I actually see myself and not just my clothes or make up.

  63.  #63Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Whooo, I feel so freeeee!!!

    I turned on the messy, got real vulnerable, I let it out, and I let it go, and YES, I contacted him. Yes, I did. Yes, yes yes. I did it and I don’t feel bad. I feel WONDERFUL. I feel relaxed. I can let it all go. I can breathe. Let it float into the void. The “not knowing” has a purpose now. It’s not a “I’m not saying what I want to, I’m just waiting for something to happen” feeling; and now it is a “I’ve said all that I needed to say and so now whatever happens next is fine with me” feeling, with confidence.

    Because I mean it.

    The last line in my email was this:

    “Whatever happens next is up to you. Call me. Don’t call me. It would feel great to hear from you. But no expectations or pressure for anything.”

    Doesn’t that feel great??

    It feels great to me. And that’s a test that I use. If it feels good in my body, then it’s probably okay. Besides, I was looking for a way to give him HIS power, while not giving him MY power. And it feels to me like this fits the bill.

    I’m wicked proud of myself. Because now I don’t feel that sensation of WANTING to lean forward. I’ve said what I needed to say. And now I can genuinely and authentically lean back, because it’s all about letting him make his own decisions. As I get to make mine.

    A total win!

    Just wanted to share. : ) xxoo!

  64.  #64Linda G on December 3, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    Also, today I had two guys pop up from my past out of the blue, both with him I almost got involved with, several years ago!

  65.  #65Tereana on December 3, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    Syreena – I understand. I didn’t mean to sound critical, or to imply that you yourself need a therapist (I meant “you” generally, as in anyone, if they need a therapist should get one).

    It’s just that, from reading your post in #20, I wasn’t sure if you correctly understood what “free therapy” is supposed to mean. I’m sure Rori explains it better in some of her posts and newsletters. And what I said is just how I understand it from her philosophy. So I just wanted to make that distinction between seeing men and dating as “free therapy” and seeing the man himself as a free, untrained, non-contractual “free therapist” – which is not what Rori teaches, and would in fact be very damaging and unproductive if we were to approach things that way. And in that regard, I think we are all in agreement.

    Does that make sense? Would Rori or Dominique like to weigh in?

  66.  #66Millie on December 3, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    This is retarded….
    I’m sitting here agonizing over whether I should sent a “no FWB” text or wait till I see him in person…or wait until he contacts me…..

    Part of me doesn’t want to wait! Curiosity killed the cat and that’s me…..I want to end this. I want to end my feelings around this. If I just send the text…then when I see him next maybe it will have passed…but if I wait until then, there is really no gaurantee this conversation could happen….or what if he acts weird to me! UGH

    Thank you Femininewoman for the no contact post…unfortunately I can’t do that with this man, but I feel I am not “deep” enough to where that drastic a measure needs to happen. If I stop this now, in its tracks…I could recover gracefully and we can be friends.

    I’m thinking of biting the bullet and just saying what I need to say….but I feel scared. Why! Why do I feel scared…I’ve actually ALREADY told this guy I don’t want that, but the messing around just happened and I didn’t stop it…I let it. I wanted it. But now…I dug myself in a hole and I need to get out.

  67.  #67Indigo on December 3, 2013 at 9:55 pm


    For a first date, that would feel terribly off to me.

    Call me old-fashioned, but I believe the first date the guy should be somewhat concerned with making a good impression, and drinking so much like that and in that off way doesn’t seem to create a good impression… It would be a turn-off for me.

    That said, if you are just looking to experiment, you could go out with him again with an open mind and see if the first impression is confirmed.

  68.  #68Indigo on December 3, 2013 at 9:57 pm


    Hope the doctor’s visit goes well.

  69.  #69Indigo on December 3, 2013 at 10:02 pm


    I’m a creative type too, and I’ve found that often being around non-creative, logical, “engineer”-type men can be very refreshing, for both of you.

    Invariably I find they get a kick and a thrill out of your more dreamy, creative, less conventional ideas and thoughts, and I find I enjoy the balance of someone who is more scientific, “rational”, if we can hear each other’s perspective without making each other wrong.

    I find I can be attracted to both creative types, and logical types, but I tend to get into relationships with logical types, because I like their practical side.

  70.  #70Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    Sirens I feel that there are so many things I can do to take care of me…
    I am going to write a list!

  71.  #71Emerson on December 3, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    60 thanks tereana I feel glad that you liked it :))

  72.  #72Indigo on December 3, 2013 at 10:08 pm


    I wouldn’t send the text if I were you.

    I would rather try and sit with all the many feelings and beliefs coming up and see where they come from (not easy I know), and then try my best to take my mind off him and go and do something nice for myself.


  73.  #73Indigo on December 3, 2013 at 10:15 pm


    I had my first date with the guy from Thursday night last night, I will call him “C”.

    It was lovely. He was so sweet and gentlemanly, coming to pick me up at my house, opening doors for me, giving me his undivided attention on a date that lasted 5 hours. He paid for everything unhesitatingly, and he kept the conversation light and interested in me, without any boundary-crossing or inappropriateness whatsoever.

    He came across as a “solid” guy – someone who would never do anything intentionally to hurt or upset you. Of course I don’t know, this was only the first date, but that’s the impression I got.

    It ended off with him escorting me back to my room and him kissing me and sweetly holding me for a while, nothing more.

    It was all very sweet and romantic.

  74.  #74Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    Lisa – I hope it’s all good news from the doctor.

    Syreena – 59 – I haven’t met most of the men who listed casual sex as a preference because I found it impossible to have even a light conversation with them. No focus, which is a complete turnoff for me. And I agree there have been impressions I got from them of being very immature. It’s like they’re high and just want their fix – ew! I feel supported by your comments – I don’t want to have these energies in my life.

    Tereana – cool, you’re a stylist! It’s so good to hear of a creative doing well. It’s inspiring.

    Indigo – My sister is an engineer and we get along so well.
    I’ve been around creative people for about 15 years now – more fine arts/drama/classical music people – although there can be really good camaraderie, it’s been so difficult for me to either have a relationship or maintain one. BM’s a poet, I’m in Fine Arts. There’s also so many myths to dodge as well that can be quite a crutch for creative people; one of them being “the creative couple” whose partnership results in explosions of creativity; another being that a feminine man is a more creative mode to be in – complete bull too.

    I do like the complementary flow that you speak of.

    I’m glad to hear that your date went well : ) Smiling happily here for you.

  75.  #75Veronica on December 3, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    Dominique – I’ve been doing the reaching out and it’s been quite good. It’s early days still but I can sense how I’m opening up to the mystery of possibilities while at the same time also sensing an “I’m doing my own thing” vibe growing in me. Thank you for your suggestions.

  76.  #76Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 1:45 am

    Millie that’s why you get clear within yourself about what sex means to you before going there. That’s why you discuss what sex means to you before going there with any man. Many men expect women to go psyc!ho after sex which is a reason why so many of them disappear also. We tend to interpret having sex as being in a serious relationship. To men, sex is just sex.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 1:55 am

    Cupcake I say don’t judge him. That’s who he is and he is showing you himself. The question is can you live with all this drinking on your dates and in your life. If not, trust yourself. I thought it was beautiful how you spoke up about the awkward conversation and using the basketball analogy. That read so much like “talking in his language”. I believe that would resonate with many men. That seemed to be great experimenting with free therapy, being in the moment and speaking poetically. Sounds like you did great. Trust yourself and continue speaking your truth.

  78.  #78Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 1:57 am

    Veronica I believe you can respond to practice speaking up about your value of yourself and beliefs about sex. I believe it will also help you to feel comfortable discussing sex with men.

  79.  #79Syreena on December 4, 2013 at 2:53 am

    Feel glad that you felt supported by my comments Veronica. I don’t believe all men think sex is just sex. Some yes but not all.
    I believe emotionally mature men only want to have sex in a way of mutually sharing their love with the woman they love and care about who wants to match that energy and wants to share her love through sex in the same way.

  80.  #80Dominique on December 4, 2013 at 5:33 am

    Veronica – 75 – 🙂


  81.  #81Cris on December 4, 2013 at 5:35 am

    good luck and all my best wishes!

  82.  #82Dominique on December 4, 2013 at 5:41 am

    Not all men think of sex as just sex. There are many who take it as seriously as many women will, who may want to have sex yet won’t unless there is some sort of connection, some sort of deep er emotion evoked.


  83.  #83Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Thanks Dominique. That’s what I meant to say.

  84.  #84Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 7:13 am

    To many men sex is just sex.

  85.  #85Veronica on December 4, 2013 at 7:46 am

    FW- 78 – Thank you – I’m excited to be all about me in this situation. I was going to do nothing but this will be very good practice. I’m going to explore for myself all that sex means to me at this moment and then speak my truth.

    Syreena – 79 – I find the emotionally mature men as you described them very attractive. I feel alive just imagining myself with a man like that. : )

  86.  #86redbutterfly on December 4, 2013 at 8:48 am

    Yaye, Indigo!! Glad to hear it went well for you!!

  87.  #87Miss Bells on December 4, 2013 at 10:17 am

    HS has such low testosterone that sex is just a dream. And we both have respiratory stuff that makes sleeping in two rooms a necessity until we can deal with whatever is causing this. He is going to go see the doctor and get hormone tests.And he comes over to “my” side (about 5 feet away) and snuggles in the morning.

    Things that used to cause trouble between us don’t anymore. He still picks a bit, but I just laugh and tell him to knock it off. I am still messier than he is, but I go out of my way to put things away.

    Lately we have been talking about where is the best place in the world to retire. I am looking at Taos because I can afford my own land there and I am very attracted to the place. But, if we joined forces we could go anywhere. It isn’t clear yet, but I know he is thinking about it and I am not afraid of the outcome either way.

    For those of you who have known me for a few years on this blog, I do not sound like the same woman who was posting a couple of years ago. HS did a lot of the behaviors men do that cause us pain. I rode it out, went and did my own thing, and now I am here.

    I believe that coming into my modest inheritance, not enough to make me rich, but enough to keep me from being poor, has made a huge difference. Money is a LOT more important than we think when in the throws of romantic drama.

  88.  #88Miss Bells on December 4, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Heart vs. Head.

    I am an intellectual. It is just who I am, and I enjoy it a lot. Intellectual work centers around the life of the mind and is one of the grand pursuits of the human species. But it it by definition “heady’.

    It is a practice to separate “work” from “play” and drop down into the heart and body.

    But sometimes I feel attacked by all of the new agey concepts that proclaim that using your brains is always bad. We have both a heart and a head. I love using both.

  89.  #89Dominique on December 4, 2013 at 11:30 am

    You DO sound different Miss Bells. Calmer, more open. YAY you!!!


  90.  #90Mandy on December 4, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Tereana, Thank you, and LM, thank you for sharing your story, it is a powerful one.

    I learned I may be dealing with a hypersensitive, introverted, feminine-energy man. I think he needs facilitation.

    I am willing to help him understand what it is I want; However I feel confused as to how exactly to word what I say to him; Rori said you have to spell it out to him if he has Hypersensitivity because he’s so into himself he can barely think of handling my stuff. I don’t want to spell it out to him and sound motherly.

    How does “I feel weird/bad/icky and I just want you to touch me/put your arms around me.” Sound?

  91.  #91Cris on December 4, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Miss Bells <3 <3

  92.  #92Dominique on December 4, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Mandy – When he does touch you, hold you the way you like or even close to it you say – Ooooh that feels SO good. I love this.

    And you melt into him. This is how to encourage more of this.

    If he’s just not doing it but used to, you can say – I love when you touch me like……………or hold me like……………I so miss this. It would feel so good to feel this again.

    If he has never – I love being touched…………held like this. It would feel so good to feel this.

    And maybe hug on or touch yourself for a bit in his presence.


  93.  #93Mandy on December 4, 2013 at 12:24 pm


    My plan is to do just that…play in front of him…let him touch me…I have been very straightforward about thanking him too whenever he does something i like and telling him he’s awesome.

    I understand you’re quite the siren, and I appreciate you weighing in. I read your post a long while ago about weight and how it affects things, and I lost a bunch of weight and he’s noticing and calling me sexy and suggesting I try bellydancing, so I feel like something’s there, still a spark..

    But he says that he doesn’t want to change who he is, he likes who he is, and I’m not sure I understand what he means by that, how would opening up again sexually make him afraid it will change who he is? Maybe he’s afraid to be on anti-depressants, I felt that way when I was put on meds for it.

  94.  #94Miss Bells on December 4, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Here is the strange thing about friends with benefits, at least as it has occurred for me.

    FWB is basically when you have a friendship with a man that sometimes includes sex. When you are married (or in a serious live-in relationship) for a long time, you have a very deep friendship that also includes sex. There may be a romantic element, beneath the domesticity of daily life, but without a strong friendship a marriage is headed for trouble. But–in a marriage there is also commitment.

    It seems to me that the weak link in FWB is the FRIENDSHIP. If you scratch the surface, and you don’t have to scratch hard, it usually isn’t there At all.
    FWB feels icky because it involves protestations of friendship that mask a request for no-strings-attached sex. And one party, almost always the woman, really wants more.

    If a woman agrees to FWB she is agreeing to an imaginary relationship even if she is having sex every night.

    When you have been married a long time, the sex feels casual. It is the commitment and the TRUE friendship that insures that it is not.

  95.  #95Dominique on December 4, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Mandy – 93 – People change all the time. To stay stagnant is like dying. If he’s truly the man for you, he will change through your healing heart. He may not be aware he is, but he will. You may not even notice until much time has gone by, and you’ll suddenly realize how different you are and he is and you are together.

    This may help you.



  96.  #96CurvySiren10 on December 4, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Excellent post about FWB Miss Bells.

  97.  #97CurvySiren10 on December 4, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Indigo~ yay!! What a lovely description of your date! you deserve this and oh-so-much-more! So excited to ‘stay tuned’ for more of this story…


  98.  #98Tereana on December 4, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    LM #56 – I totally understand the feeling and the emotional response about trust that you are talking about. I have felt the same way for as long as I can remember. Learning to trust myself feels like pulling teeth sometimes. But I’m finally getting myself to do it more and more, and we’ll see. Maybe it will get easier..

  99.  #99Mandy on December 4, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Dominique –

    Thanks again – it’s SO weird you sent me that link because JUST this morning he was talking about how I help him without doing much; he said I have a vibration or demeanor that relaxes him and takes away his anxiety…and when we sit together not talking, there’s something there that means the world to him. SO I think this may be happening! How exciting 🙂

  100.  #100Tereana on December 4, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Miss Bells:

    “Money is a LOT more important than we think…”

    Yes. I am sure that it is VERY important. And right now I am in the throes of just feeling hopeless about money, completely. I’ve been changing things, trying new things, and something, eventually, will work. But I KNOW in my heart that no relationship in my life can work properly without me being able to properly take care of myself. And that’s what I haven’t been doing. For whatever the reasons are: I haven’t valued myself. I haven’t appreciated the work I do, and let myself get paid well without guilt. I haven’t stopped up the holes that money flows out of unnecessarily in my life. I’ve closed my eyes and stuck my head in the sand, because it was too painful to look, “hoping” that the next thing I tried would fix the problem and make a difference. It hasn’t. Yet. I’m going to keep trying. It seems hopeless right now, and I am struggling, definitely. I have no support and no one to talk to. And obviously if I could hire a financial coach, I would. But the chances are, if I had the money to hire a financial coach, that would be an indication to me that I was on a good financial track and didn’t need one. Hm…

    So basically, I’m my own financial coach, trying to get rid of the old, bad, self-hating habits I’ve always had.

    In fact, come to think of it, I may say that I’ve learned to love myself, but I haven’t, really. I’ve just learned to be gentler with myself in my inner voice and gentler with my body. The one area where the old self-hate still shows up is money. It’s in my financial life. And that’s how I know I’m not healed yet.

    But I know it will feel so good when I am. Cyndi Lauper was right: money really does change everything. Lol. But what it really changes is my energy. When I have my own money, I can make my own choices and feel independent, it just changes everything about me. I glow. I feel happier. In an kinder to others. That’s not superficial at all. And yet I have been taught all my life that money was superficial and meaningless. I am so confused about money. A love-hate relationship. And yet there is this other element I don’t understand. *sigh*

    Anyway. I didn’t mean to write so much. I guess you just hit a nerve of something that was really present for me today and I needed to vent.

    And also I am in the belly of the beast. I am doing what I never thought I would do and staying at my mother’s house. She is still as narcissistic as ever and treats me like dirt – or worse. Trying to love myself in this environment feels like trapeze artistry. It takes a lot of muscle and skill and it always feels as if I am about to fall to my death… Pray for me….

  101.  #101April Rose on December 4, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Loving you loving yourself! Even in the lion’s den!!

  102.  #102Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Awwwww (((((((((((((Tereana)))))))))))))))

  103.  #103Miss Bells on December 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    100–There were many times in the past when I put an obsession with a man ahead of my own self-interest. An it really hurt in so many ways. And now that I am independently middle class I have a completely different vibe.
    But, being gentler and kinder to yourself is a pathway to self-love. I don’t know if it’s possible to go from “don’t give a sh!t” to “I love myself” all in in one step.
    As for the money, on my Frugal Goddess blog I tell people to plug the holes first. Then figure out what you really value. Raising income is the third thing, not the first. Tracking money is the only way, just like tracking food is necessary to losing weight.
    But NO BEATING YOURSELF UP–even if the financial books are a mess.

  104.  #104Tereana on December 4, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    I must be a very powerful person.

    I do not understand my own power.

    I scare myself sometimes.

    I must be scary, since sometimes people seem afraid of me.

    Other times, people love me for seemingly no reason, and open up to me with their stories.

    I do not understand.

    Who am I? What is my place is this world? What am I supposed to be doing here?

    Whatever made me think that I ever wanted to be here anyway?

    This is crazy. Life is confusing.

    I don’t know what I am doing or if I’m doing it right at all.

    I might be screwing things up or doing it all great, and either way it seems to make no difference.

    I feel cranky today.

    I need a really long nap….I feel tired

  105.  #105Tereana on December 4, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Thank you, ladies!! I feel touched

  106.  #106Mandy on December 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Nice night alone with myself…I’m going to use it to my advantage…and riff, and go through Love Scripts…and the workbook…and feel good…
    and take a bubble bath and watch some movies…
    This is the first time I’ve spent the night alone in my apartment without J (my guy).

    I feel happy because he called me sexy today – he hasn’t said that since we first met…Progress perhaps? 🙂

    Time to indulge! Thanks ladies SO much for your support…I will be here MUCH more often as I just finished my animation internship today and have lots of time…

  107.  #107Millie on December 4, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Femininewoman–I don’t know how to do that yet, I just know i wanted to sleep him and he didn’t want a relationship. I satisfied my curiosity and then ended it because I know I cannot go further. I’m not good at all of this…I don’t know why, but I’m not.

    I did text him, we talked and then I told him I had something on my mind, and asked if I could share. He said yes, and I told him that “I feel like we are going down the friends with benefits path, and as much as I like and enjoy messing around with you, I can’t do friends with benefits.” His reply was “ok.” And then he explained that right now he isn’t on the path of gf-marriage-kids….he likes dating and FWB. Then we talked about dating….and basically, he has a clear definition of what a date is and when he and I went to dinner was clearly NOT a date according to him, so I’m glad I clarified that and also made me realize I need to define what a date is to me and raise my standards.

    I didn’t “go psycho” on him…I just stated that I can’t continue and didn’t ask anything of him.

    I shouldn’t have slept with him, but I wanted to, and I did. And now….I’m moving on. I don’t know what’s going to happen next, how our friendship is going to change or what it will be, but I wasn’t strong enough to abide by my boundaries, and now I have to be..for self preservation.

  108.  #108Millie on December 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    I really got the feeling he could “take it or leave it” and that made me feel terrible….so regardless of the mistakes I’ve made. I stopped it, and I feel better knowing that.

  109.  #109Linda G on December 4, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    It’s so exciting to read about everybody’s progress, evolution, development.

    I have been having me nowhere dates so I took myself to a single’s holiday party. The first guy ho came up to me as soon as I got there, had to be my Dad’s age, he said he was in his late 60’s. my Dad is 87.

    I couldn’t connect with anybody! I didn’t know what to do with myself
    Two of my girlfriends came, which lways turns me into a coach for them, and nothing for me.
    I feel disappointed….

    I feel “off”

  110.  #110Linda G on December 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    I know I may be talking to myself, here, but I have discovered something. I never say yes until it’s too late, the offer passed, the feelings or attention dwindling. I am always looking for something better, afraid to settle, even in business, I turn down offers hoping to get a better one, when there is little on the horizon; back off from good men, hoping a better one will come along, thinking, “is that all there is”

    Fear of commitment/intimacy? Low self esteem? I am cheating myself.

    Gosh, I really had an awful time tonight….punishing myself…

  111.  #111Femininewoman on December 4, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Linda G maybe you could practice receiving?!

  112.  #112Indigo on December 4, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Thanks redbutterfly and CurvySiren 🙂 <3

    He held me so sweetly on Tuesday night, and then yesterday (Wednesday) I put on the shirt that I was wearing and it smelt like his deodorant/cologne. I loved that! Smell is so important to me.

    I truly have no expectations and am leaning back, just trying to feel through every moment. He messaged me yesterday to ask how I was and how my day was and I was just feeling through how I felt about it all.


  113.  #113Linda G on December 4, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    Thanks, FW.i find I can receive at first and then I always find an excuse to reject
    Feeling unworthy, maybe

  114.  #114Indigo on December 4, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    I love how when I start being kind and forgiving to myself, merciful, even bountifully affirming and loving, the whole perspective of my world shifts.

    Nothing looks the same. Suddenly I feel soft and aww and loving and gentle towards everyone, ESPECIALLY myself.

  115.  #115Linda G on December 4, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Indigo, I have experienced that feeling through meditation

    I feel it changing me

  116.  #116Linda G on December 4, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    My girlfriend just called me, who was at the event. Apparently the very obnoxious young guys at the event were there producing and filming for a show on True TV.
    I wondered why they stood out, and it was obvious they were miked. I thought they were security (or NSA, ha)
    Now I’m ticked off, I feel betrayed by the host, they monopolized all the girls’ time and ruined my mood

    At least now I know why it was so weird. I guess my radar was right all along

  117.  #117Cris on December 4, 2013 at 9:31 pm


  118.  #118Millie on December 4, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Thank you Cris,
    But I’ll be fine….

    I went into it full knowing what I was getting into and I when I reached a point I knew I could not handle and when the time was right for me I ended it. A goddess has sex for pleasure too and that’s exactly what that was…for pleasure. I have no problem with that! But..I like the guy and it does not seem to be reciprocated in the same way…so no more.

    I’d appreciate some support, I somehow feel a bit criticized. I may not be a whole Goddess yet, but I feel so much better and relaxed having set that boundary. Now I don’t much care what he does because I know what I’m not going to do and Im open to see how the friendship develops in light of it.

    I know what I need to do for myself. I need really define what a “date” is for me. I need to redefine my dating standards. I need to build more self confidence and not let the opinions or lack of affections from men affect that self confidence. I love who I am, but I see myself constantly wanting to win the approval of certain men, men who I see as higher than me. That is what this is about and that is what I need to work on.

  119.  #119Zia on December 4, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    I’ve been feeling flirty lately, loving it 🙂

  120.  #120Millie on December 4, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Since I’ve been talking about “Mechanic” so much…I want to share about another guy I’ve been seeing who is OH SO MUCH DIFFERENT!! I’m not sure if I’ve posted about this night yet….

    With this guy I told him I don’t want to date casually and he agreed! He had a birthday outing the other night and invited me, which made me feel good since he’d be going out to a bar and he wanted me there! I did go…and he said he was really glad because he wasn’t sure if I liked him, and he really likes me! All night he kept saying my name and listing all these amazing qualities about me…we kissed and he was leaving on a trip for two weeks and said he wished he wasn’t going now that he found someone he likes so much! We spent the night together, but I told him I wasn’t ready for sex yet (Completely different I know, I fail in the “treat them equally” department) We only kissed and cuddled. He took me to breakfast the next day and it was great! It was a completely different experience than Mechanic because he kept telling me what he liked about me…I didn’t have to wonder. I felt the waterfall coming towards me in a way that felt good. Right now he’s gone on a trip and told me I could text him while he’s gone. I said that I didn’t want to bother him while he’s on his trip and referred to an inside joke. He told me that in junior high a girl called his house and his grandma picked up and said “nice girls don’t call boys.” So I repeated that kind of flirty and he laughed and said he’d definitely be in touch. 🙂 We will see what happens…with this guy I feel less “addicted” and feel more able to “not care” about the results of what I say. We’ll see, but I wanted to share to give a counter prespective on me…that it’s not all about this other guy..even though he’s been the main focus of my writing.

  121.  #121Sophie on December 5, 2013 at 2:43 am

    (((Millie))) I support you and am not judging – you sound like you feel judged? are you being harsh with yourself? I often behave in ways or do things that I feel sad or mad about because I feel I let myself down but as the ladies say there’s no mistakes, just experiments, i’m learning more about myself and my ways of being and my triggers and sometimes it takes the same thing repeating again and again for a shift to occur. Now I’m not dating but being with CDB I can be very unsirenly – infact I can be a right cowbag and then I’m sad and mad for letting myself down but more and more i’m trying to drop the perfectionism and just try and remain forgiving with myself and curious…keep moving forward…keep moving closer to my edges…at least i’m in Siren School – I could just be banging around in my stuff completely blind 🙂

    And as Dominique says all men have a gift …they’ll definitely be a mechanic gift even if he’s just the wrapping of this particular message and it’s like pass the parcel with many different layers 🙂

    Indigo – I am LOVING the nice man updates 🙂 I feel so happy that you’re having that nice experience

    Lisa (((HUGS))) I hope all is well with the Dr

    Miss Bells – thank you for your posts – it feels good to hear how your relationship has shifted and how you have found a form that works for you – CDB and I often sleep in different rooms and it works for us and I am very messy and trying to be less messy 🙂 and money! Money is featuring quite a lot for us at the moment as neither of us have any!!! and I can see us snap at each other and resentment builds so easily because of the pressure of the pennies – I am very looking forward to a bit more ease and cash flow it will transform things for us I think

    Tereana – thank you for the honesty of your posts I could feel myself identify with so much of what you were saying I was thinking ‘yes! Yes! yes!’ a lot! my finances are low as they can go right now since I left a job that was really killing me in March – and I’m questioning how I can be open to more flowing in – I’m feeling okay I’m practising hard faith and I can see manifestations in small ways and that is strengthening my faith – I’m sooo happy regardless that I left that last job and I feel excited for what the future is going to bring me – I don’t like the possibility of going into debt to get me through buut I keep telling myself its only temporary and everything is working out –

    maybe they’ll be a gift in your current circumstances too? and mine! 🙂

    Mercedes – YAAAYYYY!!!! Fabulous!!! All the luck on your new venture xxx

  122.  #122LoveAlways on December 5, 2013 at 7:04 am

    I feel grouchy, and that feels funny to say

  123.  #123Mercedes on December 5, 2013 at 7:14 am

    Thank you so much ladies! I’m starting to get very, very nervous. Last night was the first night I couldn’t sleep due to butterflies in my tummy and an overactive brain. I have five actual days left at my day job and then I am done. I can fully focus on getting the business up and running (and goodness knows it needs someone to focus on it). There’s just so, so much work to do…and so much work I CAN’T do while I’m at another job.

    I’m nervous. I have a major headache. I think I need a drink! lol

    Much Love,

  124.  #124Femininewoman on December 5, 2013 at 7:52 am


    No need to worry about anyone’s opinion about you or what you do with your life. Regarding the two men I suggest look at the results you create in each situation and go with doing what works best. Try not to focus on the particular man regardless of how you feel about him but keep doing with both what actually works.

  125.  #125Lisa on December 5, 2013 at 9:08 am

    @Sophie Aww Thanks so much! <3 that feels to good! OX
    @ Millie {{{hugs}}}

    @ Indigo <3 🙂

    I let it come out yesterday while lovemaking that "I love you" and there were tears…. and I realize that I don't have to commit to this man for the rest of my life and not even now b/c he hasn't ask… for me to love him… and he has put his heart out there for me for weeks now saying I love you… and expected nothing in return… it just took me awhile to realize that I feel it too… but the question is still in my mind… and wow he is so present with me… and I had a trigger yesterday and he was so wonderful….. and said when we have sex it is lovemaking and it's beautiful! amazing! I wanted to cry….and I still don't know about him yet, if he is the one, if we are compatible in other ways…. but I do know I'm loving loving loving how he treats me…

    and even though I don't want to, I'm meeting and talking to other men…. and I still don't feel "attached" yet. I feel good about that…

    I can love him and still not be attached to the outcome or the "is he the one" ……

    He is an amazing man!

    I'm being redundant… oops


  126.  #126redbutterfly on December 5, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Miss Bells, I loved your post about FWB and I would have to totally agree with you even though this is the first time I had even thought of it that way!

    Linda G, it’s really good to hear that your radar was so spot on!! 🙂

  127.  #127redbutterfly on December 5, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Lisa, it makes me feel happy that you are feeling so great about this guy! For me it really boils down to…how well does he treat me? If I feel there is a layer of sparkly fairy dust on everything when I am with him, that’s the feeling I am looking for!

  128.  #128Femininewoman on December 5, 2013 at 9:20 am

    Lisa I feel so good reading your comments about this man.

  129.  #129Lisa on December 5, 2013 at 10:17 am

    @redbutterfly Thanks! <3 I'll keep my eye open for the sparly fairy dust….;-)

    @FeminineWoman thanks so much! That feels good to hear that from you! <3

    He calls me twice a day and once in the afternoon to ask how my day is going, how I slept. It's always brief – which is good since i'm busy with my child and all… then he calls again in the evening…

    I have to say it feels different than all my other relationships where I was "propelled" to love them more than they loved me… ( which I later learned was a way of keeping love from coming to me) and now it feels different that his feelings seem stronger than mine… and at times I question that… does that mean ……. ? But then I just keep remembering what Rori says and the book… ( women that love too much) and I relax…

    My new planet is doing well so far… and my legs aren't so shaky anymore…. I'm growing a custom to it….

    back to work….


  130.  #130Dominique on December 5, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Lisa – 125 – <3


  131.  #131Mandy on December 5, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    I hope the Sirens are having a gorgeous and peaceful day,

    I am working on doing things that feel scary or weird, like admitting feeling messages…jealousy, guilt, shame, feeling bad…to my guy. And thinking of trying new styles of clothing and perhaps a dance class.

    I have lots of things I could bring up that feel so scary, I feel like I could barely squeak them to him.

    But, I totally locked onto that, last night watching Love Scripts, while my man was out of town with his parents – the scary feeling one gets when they dig up the crap, and that’s how you know you’re doing well with digging up the crap.

    I realized I totally needed me time – siren time, and I can’t get into my feelings when he’s right in my bubble all the time – I stay in my head and agonize and puzzle “until my puzzler is sore.”

    I have lots of shit. Personal shit…Military brat, who’s dad’s a perfectionist, and who slapped me down a lot when I’d try to get his attention, so I do this with my man, and practically invite him to slap me down and get mad at him for it – poor guy. Also I carry a sense of never being good enough, and I beat myself up a lot.

    I recognized this last night and realized it needs to be nipped in the bud…and I could use a lot of coaching…I just don’t know how to get hooked up with a coach. Can someone help me?

    It hurts in many ways to agonize over relationship troubles, and I know I need to lean way back and have more time for myself doing things that make me happy or that I’m curious about – which is good because there are lots of things I’m interested in and can totally nerd-out on.

    I don’t feel ready for a pole dancing class yet, I’d like to get lighter first, but I have expressed interest in belly dancing, and there is a studio down the street..I feel like that is a totally siren-ish, goddess-like thing to do…so hypnotic and graceful and pretty, and I imagine it might give me a sense of peace. (and it will tone me up after all this weight loss!) My man even said to me yesterday he could see me doing it, and that I look sexy lately! I see that as super-duper progress…he hasn’t said that since we first met! 🙂

    But if anyone could help me with coaching I’d feel really super grateful. As I am on disability pay, I don’t have a lot of money but I have some I can spend. I am totally willing to help you help me so there’s a very good chance of success with it.

    And hey – Have a wonderful day, goddesses….


  132.  #132Femininewoman on December 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Manndy click on Dominique’s name.

  133.  #133Dominique on December 5, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Mandy – I would feel honored to help.

    Love to you.


  134.  #134Tereana on December 5, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Millie (120) – that sounds great! Why are you “failing” in the “treat them equally” department? Because you slept with one guy it means you need to sleep with all of them, “to be fair”? Uh-uh, sister, no way. In fact, that sounds like a “guy” idea that has somehow gotten into your head. You do NOT need to sleep with anyone, if you’re not ready.

    Besides, the important thing to look at here is his reaction. Did he complain and say how upset he was and make you feel guilty? Did he try and push for sex after you said no? According to you, he did neither. In fact, he kissed and cuddled you all night, then took you to breakfast. I say that’s a win! In fact, I say, put off sex for as long as you can! Yes, be unfair! Yes, treat then differently! A quality man, who listens to your needs and responds accordingly is a good thing. Don’t rush, and just feel it out, and when you are ready, it will probably be apparent.

    If it’s not apparent, or you’re not sure, then you are probably not ready.

    Sounds great. Enjoy this one. He sounds like a keeper, but time will tell! 🙂

  135.  #135Tereana on December 5, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Ok, I had a really bad day yesterday.

    Last night, I went to bed early, and that helped. But the other problems are still there. My mother’s energy is like a vortex. It is like this giant thing that just flattens my entire sense of self, and sucks all me energy into her existence, even though I don’t want it to.

    Like a black hole, it simply operates this way. You can’t stand next to a black hole and say, “gee, I would really not like you to suck me in today.” It’s a black hole. It’s going to suck no matter what.

    So that’s my mom. A black hole that sucks my energy and my joy and my life force away.

    I’m thinking of starting a Facebook forum/support group for women with narcissistic moms. It’s a really specific problem that most people don’t understand, unless they’ve had the experience themselves.

    I know other people on this blog fall into that category, but (I’m sorry) I forget which of you that is! If you want me to add you to the group, would you email me your Fb profile? Or email me and I’ll send you a link so you can request and invite. It will be a closes group, I think. It should be very private, and a safe place for people to open up.

    My email you can write to is sirentiffany@gmail.com

    Siren splashes!

  136.  #136Miss Bells on December 5, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    134–I wanted to say the same thing about the “treat them equally” thing.

    Treating them equally applies to the rotation when CDing–that you say yes to the one that asks and not “hold out” for your favorite. It has nothing to do with who you sleep with. If it did, CD-ing would be impossible unless you were celibate or liked sleeping with 3 or for men at a time.

    Not “saving” your time for a particular man makes sense. One of the main reasons for CD-ing is to avoid getting hung-up too fast, and to give them each an equal chance to woo you.

  137.  #137Mandy on December 5, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Sent you an email Dominique, I can’t wait to get started!

    Thanks ladies…I feel like the progress is starting….

    Rori invited me to a chat but I wasn’t able to get it, but I think this will help!

    But major thanks to Rori for that too 🙂 She noticed I needed some help!

  138.  #138Lisa on December 5, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    @Mandy It can be tricky… and I watch for those “feelings of guilt” that are from our programming as women….. like Rori says it can feel contra everything we’ve ever learned

    @Dominique Thanks! <3

    oh I almost forgot my post hehheee

    So, there is this man I met about a month ago "T" and I ran into him at a teahouse one night while I was meeting another man… and I haven't heard back from him… since… I'm really wanting to be friends with him… but what is the protocol about contacting men after meeting them etc…

    I'd love to have a male friend to go hiking with… and he loves to hike…

    Any suggestions?


  139.  #139Lisa on December 5, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    my fears came in tonight… shew! glad I’m aware of them… to be expected I guess…

    When things are good… here they come!

    I’m loving on me tonight…


  140.  #140Tereana on December 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Well, my ladies. It feels so good to be going to bed at a reasonable hour – not to early not too late. ahh…

    And…I still feel relaxed. I haven’t heard back from the man yet, if I ever hear back from him at all, and I just feel so relaxed about that. I feel super clear. For like about a millisecond, I nearly entertained the thought that…Oh wait, never mind, I forgot what that was. Something that might have made me think it was a bad idea.

    But then I was like, Hey, I said my piece. Everything that I said or wrote was entirely true about me. And what he does doesn’t matter to me at all. I am still attractive to him, the same as I am attractive to any man. All he really needs to consider is this: can he truly make me happy? If he never wants to have kids, then the answer is no. In the short, term, sure. I can feel plenty of momentary happiness. But I am never going to be happy in the long term if my partner doesn’t at least want to have kids (with me).

    Now, if I get into a relationship, and we plan to have kids, and then somehow it doesn’t work that that’s possible, that might be sad, but there will be other ways. I can adopt. I can do lots of things. But that is always going to be there. And honestly, with him being the kind of guy he is, and saying that he could see himself falling for me, I wouldn’t really want him to “fall” for me, only to have me go and choose to be with someone else.

    So I feel totally clear about that. He knows what he wants. And if it doesn’t align with my desires, that’s fine.

    And I am still so glad that I sent the message. Because now all the things on my mind that were bothering me are now not clouding my vision of my every day life.

    I have problems to solve and details to take care of. This is a difficult time for me, and I’m the one I really need to be focusing – not him. Not any guy. I am the one who needs the love and attention. And when I spend the time on myself, helping to turn everything around, then I’ll be able to move on and forward, and be in the kind of relationship I want. And when I do, I will really be there. The real me. All of me.

    And that will be so wonderful : )

  141.  #141Indigo on December 5, 2013 at 8:45 pm


    Dominique is a wonderful coach 🙂

  142.  #142Indigo on December 5, 2013 at 8:46 pm


    I am LOVING reading your posts about “S”.

    I feel this huge blooming sense of joy for you.


  143.  #143Cupcake on December 5, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Dear Sirens:

    I feel very proud of myself, and I want to tell you about it. I took a colossal dare today, and I was thinking about Rori and all of you when I did it, so I feel like I did it for all of us.

    Because I don’t really know anyone in the town that I just moved to, I’m really making an effort to find things to do so I don’t just sit around between meeting up with guys from OKCupid and looking for a job. (Oh, I got a nibble on a job today– someone responded to the resume I sent yesterday. I’ll keep you posted.)

    Here’s what the colossal dare was, though. A few days ago, I noticed that there was a story-telling event happening tonight. I’ve always wanted to go to one of those, so I ear-marked it as something to do.

    And then this morning, I emailed the contact person and asked, “How does someone participate in one of the events?” Just out of curiosity.

    The day passed and I was getting ready to go to the event– which was at 7 pm, when I got an email from that person. It was 6:15, and she said, “Hey, somebody just cancelled. Do you want to perform?”

    Now, Sirens, I thought– “Eeeepp!” I haven’t even been to a story telling event before. And it was happening an hour later. So I started an email back that said, “Gee, I don’t think I can at such short notice—”

    And then I thought, “Why the heck not?”

    I thought about the exercise Rori posted here, of looking in the mirror and really finding the feelings and talking from the place of raw vulnerability and emotions.

    So I wrote back and said, “Okay. I’ll do it.”

    And then I had about 45 minutes to plan out a seven minute spoken story, which I performed without rehearsing at all in front of 160 people, stone cold sober, and without tripping over my words.

    They laughed. They cried. They stood up and cheered. The crowd went wild with applause.

    Okay, maybe not all that. They did laugh– at points where I actually wanted them to. And they did applaud. And I felt really really glad that I’d done it.

    The theme of the night;s stories was Passion. And I talked about how Desire precedes passion, and that the spark that launches Desire into passion is the willingness to be open to the possibility of loss. Except I told it in a funny story about how a guy I know, when he was a little boy, wouldn’t tell his family what he wanted for his birthday because he knew they’d mess it up. So he asked for something else, because then he was in control of the disappointment. Instead of asking for a toy firetruck, he asked for a big box of bananas. Then he got the bananas and was disappointed but relieved that he hadn’t stuck his neck out and revealed his true desire.

    Anyway- it felt really good to look out into the audience and see them all listening, really listening, waiting for my next words.

    And truly, Sirens, I felt like I was taking this dare for all of us. Taking a risk, talking about my feelings, talking about the fear of asking for what I want and of trusting that I’ll get it.

    Then the best part was, because I’d stood there completely emotionally naked in front of a big group of strangers, afterwards people who liked my story came up to talk to me. It was like, they already had an inkling of who I am and they chose me, singled ME out to talk to. So it feels like a better chance that I’ll end up being real friends with these people because it’s not random bumping into people. These people felt something resonate in my store, and went out of their way to not just say, “Great story!” but “Let’s hang out. Here’s my card.”

    I made plans to hang out go see a performance artist tomorrow night with a cool girl who’s a writing teacher.

    And then a handsome man came up and sat with me for the last half of the show, talking to me when we had to dash for cover during a rain shower, and then sitting next to me again when the shower ended and we all went back outside.

    When it was over and we were chatting he said, “Hey, listen, to be clear– I’m married and I really wish my wife was here tonight because she would have loved your story too, and have enjoyed this conversation. Here’s my card, if there’s anything I can do to help you settle in to this new town, give me a call. And if you’d like to hang out with me and my wife on Tuesday, we’ll be at this other place, and it would be really nice if you wanted to join us and our friends.”

    (And let me just be clear here that it wasn’t a creepy kinky “come on” thing– He was just a really nice, open guy.)

    And to my surprise, because he was very handsome, probably the handsomest man I’ve seen since I got to this city, and really funny too- I felt absolutely NOTHING when he told me he was married. Not disappointment, not relief. If anything, I felt, “Cool! I’ll bet his wife is just as nice as he is! More friends!”

    So, all in all, I feel really glad I did it, and I am so glad that I have been active on this blog because I don’t think I would have taken the dare if Rori hadn’t posted this exercise, and I hadn’t felt I was speaking from the heart for all of us.

    Anyway, thanks for listening and being there, Siren sisters.


  144.  #144Linda G on December 5, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    I loved reading your post, Cupcake! You should be very proud, go you!

  145.  #145Emerson on December 5, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Sirens I’m struggling with self discipline. I’m PMSing so that’s prolly why!

  146.  #146Emerson on December 5, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Cupcake that’s awesome!

  147.  #147Femininewoman on December 6, 2013 at 2:42 am

    Woohoo Cupcake!!!

    Talk about feminine power. Girl you rock 🙂

  148.  #148Emerson on December 6, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Hi sirens!
    I feel good it’s a new day,,,I am happy even though I didn’t sleep well…
    I’m going to take good care of myself today!

  149.  #149Mandy on December 6, 2013 at 9:02 am

    I know I have this deal going on where I am very into the Modern Siren and use all the tools…and have been practicing a lot, and my feeling messages are automatic now…but I do have that thing inside myself like Rori says about being conditioned – I have it, totally. Just means i need to do hard work, and I’m no stranger to working hard on things…my will is made of iron…and I have been conditioned by my brothers and father to just go into defense mode and start yelling; my man will not tolerate yelling or me treating him like my brother. So there’s that…it hurts when it happens and I hate how it feels…

    SO here’s to not yelling anymore…and stating my feelings…I actually did this automatically with my dad when he criticized me and it got through to him…

    But let’s see how far I can go with being authentic and seeing the scary feeling as a good thing.

    PS – I have never seen such a lovely support group of women…it truly is beautiful.

  150.  #150Tereana on December 6, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    It’s great! I started up my Fb support group and it’s really taking off. Already some new members! 🙂 I feel super supported, and it feels good to offer that space to other women.

    I have one “friend” that I invited to the group, and she did not join. Which didn’t surprise me. But I’m really having doubts as to her friendship. We had a good time when we saw each other over the summer, but she’s at a completely different life stage than me. And I just get the feeling that she’s not all that invested. She reached out to me first, but then when I followed up to make other plans, she never got back to me. Now she only contacts me about her stuff. I’m starting to see her arrogance and self-centeredness in a new way now. I’m glad she has separation from her mother and that her life is set up the way she wants it to be. It’s awesome that she can be so cool and in control.

    But I do not feel cool. I do not feel in control. And right now I just need to be in a safe space where I can feel like that. I don’t want to put up an I-have-it-all-together front when it’s entirely untrue. And, moreover, I don’t want to invest (again) in a “friend” who will take advantage of my goodwill and willingness to connect and simply not return the favor. I have way too many of those these days. Maybe it is time to weed out my Facebook garden…

  151.  #151Millie on December 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Thank you Sophie, FeminineWoman, and Lisa!
    Sorry I’ve been so busy I haven’t had the time to write a real response.

    Tereana–Yes you are so right!! And yes, he does sound like a keeper, but time will tell. The idea of having a “boyfriend” as much as I don’t want to be “single” feels like trapping. I have a strong desire to keep dating!

    I feel good about saying no to FWB, especially because I heard Mechanic went out with another girl, through the grapevine. I felt a sick pang in my stomach, and while he did nothing wrong…I feel glad that I’m taking care of myself and stepping back, walking away, I am CHOOSING not to stick around. I like that. And I really don’t care what he thinks anymore. I feel a renewed love for myself. I played it out in my mind if he did want to date me and commit, what would happen? Then what?? Would I be happy with a man like him? of his age? I don’t think so…..I want someone that wants me with every fiber of their being and compliments me!

    Mechanic also seems like he wants to circular date! Which is great! I’m all for dating and not committing, but I didn’t tell him that. In fact, I listened mostly to what he had to share about his place in life. He didn’t ask me…he probably assumes I want a relationship, and I DO! But how I see the journey there is what makes me unique, but he doesn’t get to know that, not right now. I feel on a journey and I know I have so much potential to be the woman I want to be.

    I have so much power and it feels good. I feel a bit like someone said (maybe my inner voice..”You can’t be that woman) and my outer voice is saying….”Watch me!”

    But then again, my confidence and self love goes in ebbs and flows…I am realizing it is also based with who I surround myself with. When their is a guy I have the potential to be “addicted” to around, that triggers my insecurity. When I’m around men and women that compliment me and vocalize reassurance, I feel more confident! That seems easy and obvious, but I don’t think I realized it. How the company we keep affects our image of ourselves…..

    Happy today my loves! Ok, now going to read more posts!! 🙂

  152.  #152Millie on December 6, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Cupcake–you rock! go you!!

    Tereana–Can you elaborate on your mom? What does she do to “suck you in?” I’m curious. You’ve probably discussed her before…but I don’t remember.

  153.  #153Indigo on December 6, 2013 at 1:59 pm


    I know I’ve posted it before, but I really, really recommend Nina Brown for some good material on narcissistic people.

  154.  #154Tereana on December 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    So here is my great siren story for today:

    I got dressed this morning and had a really dustinct urge to wear bright pink lipstick. I don’t have any bright pink lipstick.

    So all day, at work, I was plotting my course to hit up the cvs after I finished. Well, when I did, I was browsing through the colors and suddenly I was magnetically gravitated toward this one color. I wasn’t sure if it was exactly what I wanted, but I picked it up.

    The name of the color?


    Not even kidding. It was a bright mauvey pink, and I was like, ” oh, heck yeah, I have to get this.”

    I then proceeded to head to a shop where I had put I’m am application for seasonal employment. I was just going to say hi, but when I got there, it turned out that they were going to have a group interview in the next 20 minutes. I grabbed a coffee and came back for the interview. When the woman started, I told her I had applied online, and she said that she had literally just emailed me. *awesome*

    I just felt like I was in the flow today. Nothing felt stressful.

    And I got my pink lipstick! 🙂

  155.  #155Tereana on December 6, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Indigo – thanks for the reminder! 🙂

    Millie – thank you for asking. I really don’t feel like elaborating at the moment, just because I right now feel that I am just in this relaxed and yummy space, and I don’t want to disturb that. But I really do appreciate your question, and I’m sure I’ll have a chance to address it at some point (yes, I have written on here before about her, but I don’t recall when or what exactly I said…)


  156.  #156Tereana on December 6, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    Cupcake, that is super, super awesome!

    You saw the door open and you walked through it. I love it.

    Go you!

  157.  #157Cupcake on December 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm


    That must have felt fantastic! Laura Day, author of Practical Intuition, always says, “Synchronicities happen when we’re on the right path.”

    Sounds like that’s you! And your pink lipstick! 🙂


  158.  #158Lisa on December 6, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    @ Indigo Thanks! <3 I feel so good to read your post…and feel your blossoming too! <3

    Ok today this afternoon, attachment is setting in…. and just a few minutes ago… I feel this huge urge to cry…

    I caught myself offering a suggest for tomorrow night's date… oops! I can't remember the script I read a couple of posts ago…. bummer… I'm excited to hear your creative idea for our date tomorrow night…??

    and I've also caught myself wanting to meet him half way….oops!

    so wonder what would happen if I just balled my eyes out and then just stopped! and see what he does….?

    I noticed today that I was feeling this urge for him "not to disappoint me"… and then I let it go b/c I said, do you want to see who he is? or do you just want him to no disappoint you? Then I was able to relax and realize that what I really want is " to find out who he is"…..

    I have 2 other men calling me, wanting to go out…and I'm struggling with this… I don't know why, I've dating many men at one time before…. and "S" hasn't stepped up yet… except to ask me if we are in a relationship… which I think I didn't handle so well b/c I replied " I don't know are we"? I realized I wasn't ready for that question at that moment and out of fear that is how I responded….

    I'm afraid he will disapoint me would be good to do the work on…. maybe my real fear is … I'm afraid he won't disapoint me… tears are coming, I feel that might be the truth…. tears…

    I can't get attached yet… I can't get attached yet…
    What is happening to me…. I had no concern at all about a "future" with him, I was happy being in the now… no expectations… uggg

    he'll be here in 2hrs…omg…


  159.  #159Emerson on December 6, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Tereana I like your lipstick story !!!!

  160.  #160Emerson on December 6, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Sirens Iove the holidays and even thigh I won’t see most of my family… I will see some of them so for that I’m thankful …

    I’m having a hard time really detaching from my phone and just being with me and liking me…
    I’m not in my “zone” but that can change …

  161.  #161Emerson on December 6, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    I’m feeling really needy!

    I feel ignored by cutecityCD and recycledCD!
    I do care but why!?!?
    Because it would be nice to have a man around who actually cares!!!
    Is there such a thing!?

    I realized some painful things I’ve been feeling for a long time which is why I invite marginal treatment into my life from men…
    I feel really deep down that nobody “really” loves me! It feels horrifying .. I’m scared to think that…
    It feels that nobody is really invested in me not even my family…
    I see other families and they help each other…mine is each man for himself …
    I feel sad and needy 🙁

  162.  #162Emerson on December 6, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    I literally told myself tonight well if that is true then Emerson you better love yourself alot!!
    I do bit I don’t treat myself well….right now it’s a daily battle..with eating the right foods…
    I’m not overweight but when I eat the wrong foods I feel terrible…
    And sometimes I do it anyway …

  163.  #163Linda G on December 6, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Emerson, I hear you.
    As women, especially, we are conditioned to evaluate our worth through the eyes and actions of others.
    Deep down we know it isn’t so, but it feels like a struggle sometimes.
    “I am loved, I am loving, I am lovable”

  164.  #164Indigo on December 6, 2013 at 11:43 pm


    I struggled with that too when I was a bit younger. But now I have healed from it. And primarily I did that by forgiving my family, and other people, for not meeting my expectations. I forgave them for being imperfect and not being what I wanted them to be, knowing that they were probably doing the best they could at the time, with the issues and hurts they had, and the limited skills they had at the time.

    I started to try and appreciate every small act of support and kindness when it came to me, rather than focus on the lack.


  165.  #165Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 12:05 am

    So, … 🙂

    I saw C on Thursday night. It was absolutely lovely. He messaged me and said he was at the pub where we first met, and would I like to come. It is 5 minutes down the road from me, so I said I’d be there a little later. It was completely lovely, he was attentive and affectionate, hugging and kissing me in front of all his friends, not leaving me for one moment, making sure I had drinks and paying for them all. He asked me to let him know when I’d got home safe, and then phoned me on my drive home, and also phoned me when it had been slightly too long and he hadn’t got a message from me yet.

    He also made a point of saying to me, “Don’t worry, we can have some time just the two of us as well. I was going to ask you out to the movies on Sunday night, and can I see you tomorrow night as well?” It truly made me go “awwww” inside.

    There was a message from him also the next morning saying how gorgeous he thought I was. So I was on cloud 9. This is a guy I truly feel comfortable with, and attracted to.

  166.  #166Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 12:18 am


    So, he asked me out for last night (Friday). He came and picked me up, asked me what I wanted to do, let me choose the movie, paid for everything.

    And yet it was a little weird. He felt a little withdrawn to me. I didn’t get a sulky vibe from him, he was perfectly accommodating, just seemed a little withdrawn. Of course my insecurities reared their ugly little heads, but I reminded myself to do what Dominique says and bring it back to me. Was there something going on with me? Was he acting as my mirror? And yes indeed, there were a few things going on inside me, feelings of being a bit withdrawn and tense myself. I was tired from the night before, tired from work, a little tense from some things that had been said to me during the day, and also starting with a case of the sniffles. Not my best self.

    So it was a real effort not to try and get into his head and wonder what he was thinking, but I just kept reminding myself not to, to keep my focus on me, and not to be in his business.

    When we got into the movie he took my hand and held it the entire movie, which made me relax more.

    He took my hand when we were walking, and attended to me attentively, opening my door for me, hugging me periodically, dropping me off at home and giving me hugs and (quite chaste) kisses goodbye, and saying he wants to see me on Sunday (I have plans for Saturday). But neither of us was on top of our game. By the time he dropped me off I had full blown sniffles because of the chilly evening, and had earlier made the comment about “tea in bed”.

    I also thought the weirdness could have been seeing each other two nights in a row, and not knowing each other all that well yet. What do you guys think?

    I’m inclined to think he was just trying to respect my need for some rest as I was feeling tired and unwell?

  167.  #167Veronica on December 7, 2013 at 1:48 am


  168.  #168Veronica on December 7, 2013 at 1:52 am

    Indigo – I feel happy reading how well he is treating you.

    I thought you had told him all the things that were making you feel withdrawn – for some reason I kept waiting to read that you told him that. I don’t know why though.

  169.  #169Veronica on December 7, 2013 at 2:17 am

    This morning I was all hot-rage: noisy (banging dishes) siren-in-training. It wasn’t sireny most of the time, but I didn’t attack anyone. Yes, wobbly. I could feel myself trying different outlets and a wiser me somewhere saying ‘you know there’s better ways’. ‘Attacking people won’t help. Listening to people who won’t support you as though that was what your life should be won’t help. Banging plates and cupboards might help, but don’t throw the glassware. Yes, making plans to move to the other side of the world might help, but it won’t be your desire driving that search and why would you want to limit your life by the actions of unreliable men?’ And later when I was by myself, I could notice how unsupported and powerless I felt. The rage was all focused on the pain of having unreliable men, men who were untrustworthy in my life and who I didn’t want in my life anymore. I could feel how much I wanted a man in my life who was reliable, who would stick around and not disappear when things became ‘difficult’. I cried at how hopeless it felt, and then there was this resolve also: ‘this is my life, I don’t live for disappearing men’. And just like that, I slipped into what I needed to do that day – usually I’m a mess for most of the day.

    Then, I got a message from a man from the dating site. To be honest, this is the type of guy that I usually feel unworthy of – I knew intellectually that it was silly to think that. I could feel my energy leaning forward – hoping that I could maintain his interest, feeling shaky that anything I said would turn him off. Afraid to say what I wanted, didn’t want; not sure how to be. And the whole dating experience is starting to make sense to me now in a deeper way.

  170.  #170Veronica on December 7, 2013 at 2:19 am

    I wanted to say yesterday:
    Cupcake and Tereana are just awesome. I loved how you changed telling stories and lipstick into such powerful moments. Thank you so much!!

  171.  #171Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 3:03 am

    Thank you Veronica 🙂

    I didn’t ever tell him… I thought several times, I should use a feeling message here, “I feel tired”, “I feel like I’m coming down with a cold”, but I never did. Felt shy somehow.

  172.  #172Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 3:09 am


    I can empathise with this: “I could feel my energy leaning forward – hoping that I could maintain his interest, feeling shaky that anything I said would turn him off. Afraid to say what I wanted, didn’t want; not sure how to be.”

  173.  #173Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 3:46 am

    I had a strange dream that I was in a date and the guy wanted to smoke pot. I was so turned off and left immediately in my dream. The guy in the dream wasn’t that interesting anyway.

  174.  #174Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 3:54 am

    Indigo and Linda G thank you.
    I thought I was healed from this too, but somehow the issue has come up again for me feeling unlovable.
    There’s this little voice nv that tells me “of course he’s not here with you, you know why you’re not worth it”
    It’s really horrible. I need to be stronger and not let the nv talk to me.
    I feel weak.
    At work I feel capable and appreciated but it’s not the same as feeling loved just for being “me”….
    Veronica I enjoyed reading your post. Your anger is something I can relate to. And it’s usually peeled away to reveal sadness for me.

  175.  #175Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Sirens I appreciate your stories they are inspiring.
    I feel thankful for the things I do have and for the title things….just feel lonely at the holidays ….

  176.  #176Linda on December 7, 2013 at 8:12 am

    I am going to try to post. My messages get sent to moderation mostly but will try again today. Its sooo frustrating… and I just gave up trying.

    Deep in the middle of the holiday season and I just want it to be over. I feel closed to it. I just see it as work and I dont want to invest any energy in it.

    I have been feeling so stressed. I have a new co-worker that is barely producing a quarter of what she should be and I can not rely on what she has done to be right. The word “bafoon” has crossed my mind alot lately.

    My car cost $1500 to repair this month and then another $450 for tires that were worn out and I could not stretch them any longer.

    I remember this time last year I was excited to be cd’ing… having fun. Now this year ugh! my life is NOTHING like that. The year I had with the CD I called FavoriteCD was quite a mixed bag. There were some really good parts and some really bad ones too. The relationship is so strained by so many issues right now that using the word relationship to describe it is does not even fit .

    I spend the thanksgiving week end with him. All 4 days. There were elements of it that were ok but all in all it was draining to me. It did not bring life to my bones. What DID bring life to me was night before Thanksgiving…I spent it with one of my grandsons, he spent the night. I did not know that it would be possible to fall more “in love” with him but it happened! What an Amazing 3 1/2 year old little boy he is !!
    What food for my soul he is!!

    TOday I am reflecting.

    The week with work was taxing..FavoriteCD made a comment earlier on Tuesday (passive aggressive style) about how I dont initiate communication, text, calls to him which totally ticked me off! It triggered me big time (my mom has done this to me for YEARS!) I let him know I was upset and how negatively that type of communication affects me, shared my feelings about it… His response ???? to my soft open vunerablity.. was to Blast me A text with a fury of all of HIS stress, HIS woes, HIS gallant efforts to communicate…to me and how I dont do “MY fair share and MY part… I could hardly believe what I read. I felt unheard…my feelings were disallowed, discredited and dismissed. HA! this coming from a man who brought up the issue.. I did not ask for MORE from HIM!

    He had an father daughter dance last night. I called him to wish him a great evening. His tone was business like.. cordial and matter of fact like. After that response and his tone I have decided that is all he is getting. I am not gonna be forced into shifting the energy here. I want to be the girl.. I stopped directing, leading, rowing, doing, teaching, suggesting, planning a long time ago. I stopped “expecting” a long time ago too. My ability be soft and receiving and the “girl” in the relationship will disappear if I do. After doing the work to get to this place.. I cant go back it feels OFF and bad. I guess I need to learn how to “OUT GIRL” but I have not had this come up for me. Not sure how it is done.

    Anyway, today, he has not called. He has gone “dark” again. Things feel off.. but I am not going to feed what feels like disfunction. I am going to seek life today.. seek what brings life to my bones!!!! I told him earlier this week that I wanted to attend church where my girls go (they are singing) and spend time with them…Sunday (girls day kind of stuff)….he said ok but his silence and going quiet tells the real story. He is not happy unless he has all my free time and I am not happy if he does.

    He interprets “me time” as him not being a priority and important to me. It feels like him being insecure to me though. sigh
    I hate the undertow in this relationship it is sucking the desire and life out of me.

    I have no choice but to replenish me and I will not disappear again. I matter too much.

  177.  #177Linda on December 7, 2013 at 8:23 am

    Indigo.. I appreciate you sharing the “inner story” as you explore things with C. It is a great example of keeping our focus on ourselves.. looking inside for our answers like Rori is talking about in this post.

    I really like the easy to follow instructions on how to be more fluid with what we are feeling inside and how to be more successful in sharing. I want to flow in this. I have a huge need and desire to be genuine, centered and authetic. I want to feel ok and content. It the next step in my personal journey and healing.

  178.  #178Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Thanks Linda 🙂

    It takes massive effort and constantly reminding myself not to let my energy go over to him, to “call” my energy back, and just keep breathing and trying to calm and soothe myself, but I do feel that it’s worth it.

    Sending you love and calming vibes.

  179.  #179Luzydel on December 7, 2013 at 8:59 am

    CuteCd hasn’t contact me… he told me he was going in a mission (air force soldier) and will be back in a week. So I wont passed Cynical judgments. Besides I just met him last Sunday.

    Got tons of emails from OKC it is good to stay out of a site for a while then come back. No other dates and I don’t know I do not want to get overwhelmed with Cd’s.

    I want t have time to date myself too, because when I am spending time with other people, I tend to miss myself a lot. Maybe meet two or three people a month is good for me. I want balance this time…

  180.  #180Cris on December 7, 2013 at 9:58 am

    ((Linda)) … sharing the same path

  181.  #181Millie on December 7, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Emerson–I had some strange dreams about dating last night too….they were actually very creepy! I’m wondering what is going on in my subconscious to create those experiences.

    The dreams involved me getting into a strange man’s car and almost going home with him…another man standing me up and me feeling like a fool at the place we were supposed to meet….me drunk driving to go see a man in a really bad part of town and getting pulled over. Then the police instead of arresting me, were going to make me fight in the street with their dogs! VERY strange to say the least….None of it felt good. I woke feeling like WHY is that stuff even in my mind??

  182.  #182Veronica on December 7, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Indigo – 171 – Oh I felt my heart soften and also felt tenderness when you said you felt shy. 172 – thank you (((Indigo)))

    Emerson – I’m feeling scared of the holidays; I hope that these holidays will be good and kind to you. I want to offer you comfort yet I don’t know how.

  183.  #183Dominique on December 7, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Indigo – 165,166 – I love this. You’re awesome. As for the residual weirdness, not worth expending your energy speculating. If I had to hazard a guess though, I would say he may have been reflecting your own stuff back to you, i.e picking up on your offness and not feeling wellness. If it continues, we can talk more about it. For now, let it go.


  184.  #184Cupcake on December 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm


    Are you still dating other men?

    It feels like this FavoriteCD takes up a lot of room in your emotional pie-part. But maybe that’s just because that’s what this posting is about. That’s why I am asking,

    Someone wise once pointed out to me that people are angry to the degree that they are inconvenienced. If he’s snarky about your “me” time, he feels like it takes away from your paying attention to him.

    And – I’m writing you this because when I think about how that must feel to you, it makes my stomach hurt. If he thinks you “owe” time to pay attention to him– is that because you’ve been leaning forward and rowing the boat?

    I only know what I’m reading in this post, so I feel very aware that I only have a snippet of the story. It just feels like you’re uncomfortable with what’s going on right now– different from last year– and I feel curious about how you got there.


  185.  #185Cupcake on December 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Dear Sirens-

    In case there was a lack of evidence that boys are weird…

    I was going through my backlog of 3000+ emails on the email address that I use for junk mail, and I came across an email notifying me that someone is now following me on Spotify.

    Who, you ask? The guy that didn’t step up.


    He signed up to follow me on Spotify AFTER he emailed me telling me he didn’t want a relationship with me. After I had unfriended him on Facebook. He signed up to follow me on Spotify, in fact, a few days after he said he didn’t want a relationship.

    So I clicked on his Spotify profile to see who else he follows, and it’s hardly anyone. Four bands, five of his best friends that he talks to a lot about music, this one really (REALLY) skinny girl who’s his Facebook friend, and me.

    The thing is, he knows I hardly ever listen to music. Really, hardly ever. I listen to books on tape. Music isn’t that big a thing for me.

    So I’ve been walking around thinking, “He’s following me on Spotify. Why? WHY?”

    And part of it feels good. Like, after he told me he wasn’t ready to step up, he still felt curious about me. Or wanted to be connected? Or maybe it was an accidental mouse-click?

    I know I shouldn’t give it a moment’s thought. But it’s just weird. It makes me go, “Huhhh?”

    And it makes me kinda want to deliberately play music that will mess with his head when Spotify informs him of what I’m playing. The Banana Splits, maybe? (Am I dating myself there? Anybody remember that Saturday morning TV show?) HR Puff-in-stuff? Just totally off the wall stuff. Followed by AC/DC, then BB King, then Andrea Boccelli. Then Bing Crosby. Throw in Devo, followed by Hip Hop, followed by Screaming Jay Hawkins.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Except I won’t. Because I don’t want to put any energy into it. I want to move on. If he wants to come after me, I would feel happy to look up and see him at my elbow. Otherwise– I’m moving on.

    Today I went to a Christmas tour of an old landmark house hosted by the local historical society, and tonight I’m going to a Beatles tribute band. Last night I went (with a girl I met at the storytelling event) to see an iconic performance artist. Tomorrow I have a coaching session with a Rori trained coach in the morning, and then a CD in the evening.

    I am trying to keep busy busy busy. When I think about the guy who didn’t step up, I say to myself, “That was the past. Maybe he’ll come back and be in the future. It is absolutely NOT the present though, and the present is where I am. So what can I do about the present, NOW? What can I do to make TODAY fun?”

    Last night, at the performance art show, the girl was with said, “You sure seem to do lots of stuff.” And then somebody walked by that I’d met a few days before and I said hi, and she said, “How do you know people here if you just got here?”

    I said, “I just talk to people.”

    She said, “That’s very brave of you.”

    I said, “I have no choice. I have to be brave. It’s that or sit home and cower.”

    And it feels good, being brave.

    Hey, you know what’s interesting? I’ve read this from other sirens on the board, too.

    I feel my energy shifting to be more Diva-like. And I keep getting text messages from men from my past. Not exes, just friends. Little “Hi!” Messages. And one who texted, “Send me a photo of you smiling. Love you!!!! XXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX!!”

    It makes me laugh when I get these random messages from these guys. It makes me know that my vibe really is shifting.

    Anyway. I just wanted to tell you about the guy who didn’t step up Spotify thing, because I’m hoping that by writing you about it, it will ease up the way my thoughts have been going back to that since I discovered he is following me yesterday.

    I do miss him. And I don’t want to go there. It’s not my job to fix that thing.

    Sending you all good thoughts for a fun Saturday night.


  186.  #186Mandy on December 7, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    This morning, J and I were going to a Nordic winter festival. I had been sleepy after waking up and accidentally set my coffee cup on his desk twice (it’s leather covered and it stains.) He started to yell at me the second time, and when I said not to yell, he told me I was making it all about myself (making drama). I basically started to cry like a kid, saying that I was forgetful, was having tons of trouble and I was really sorry, through anxious, tear-filled eyes. He saw this, and just melted, and dropped his defenses. He went ohhhhh and put his arms around me.

    Then later when we were at Home Depot, he mentioned the chemistry teacher who he thought was so hot in highschool, and I told him I didn’t feel like his number one when he says tha,t and he blew up at me, saying, “I never know when I can talk about anything around you. One day you’re asking me to the strip club, the next you tell me I can’t say someone is hot, like you can talk about how hot girls are whenever you want and I can’t!” I tried to listen through tears but it just ended up with me feeling like a sad little kid and moping like one, and again, he eventually gave in, hugged me, picked a flower and put it in my hair, and asked if I still like him half-jokingly, just like he does when he feels bad about hurting my feelings. He then pulled me into bed with him after we got home for a nap, and here I am, writing while he sleeps.

    I feel…..that even though I felt attacked as hell and I couldn’t believe what I was hearing when he blew up twice…he made up for it and realized what he was doing after I dropped my defenses and just cried, just a girl in front of a guy asking him to love her. Sometimes hearing his anger and blame in my head over and over again fuels my anger, but when I remember how he dropped his anger and defenses when I dropped mine, it feels better. I notice a choice there… choosing to be the first domino and dropping one’s defenses so he follow suit. May be tempting to sit there a fume…I don’t know why it’s tempting, but it is..but I feel better choosing the better feeling.

    You learn something new every day. I think I might be getting the hang of this again…except inside a relationship, as opposed to dating.

  187.  #187Andrea on December 7, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Triggered by the Spotify story.

    A man… THE man… I’m still trying to get over who’s shadow still lies in that scintillating tightness of my throat, or that flutter of my eye lids right in between waking or sleeping, the memory of his breath on my skin, or the wrinkles on the side of his deep blue eyes when he used to smile at me…

    creates instant snap back into the realm of “Wait, does he think about me? Is he wanting me again? Did he do that on purpose?”

    when I spot his little black bmw at a stop sign on a street corner that he knows I drive on daily, when I see him at an art festival that he knows I would probably go to, (yes, he’s with another woman, but he probably guessed that I would be there too) when he makes a comment on facebook to a mutual facebook friend… (he knows I’ll see the comment, he knows I’m probably going to be reading the friend’s post.. right?)

    And I get so wrapped up in wondering what is he doing on that street, at that festival, commenting on facebook… and I feel.. back in the tug of war in our relationship, back in a relationship with him, back into guessing what game he’s playing at…

    (Until one night, in a kind of drunken stupor I called him and asked him.. why was he doing all these things? And he said, HUH? he hadn’t even been aware of me, hadn’t seen my white jeep at the opposite corner, hadn’t thought about me going to the art festival, hadn’t even known that we were mutual friends with certain people on facebook.)

    Then I realized, Wow!! Like Cupcake said, Putting way too much energy into absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. Smoke and illusion….

    Then I realized, him doing anything is just him living his life and even though the memory of me is part of his life, the reality of me today is no longer something that he concerns himself with. Then I realized that it really is true.. men… well, at least THIS MAN… is not playing evasive games with me.

    And if he wanted me in his life, he would be making moves to have me in his life. He’s not subtle. He’s not mysterious. He’s not acting shy cause he’s been hurt in the past. He’s not playing games.

    Honestly, he’s just not into me anymore. Ouch. And it hurts.. still… sheesh… and it’s been months since we’ve broken up. And, more than that, I’m really really happy and at peace with my status right now.

    It’s just, yeah, those triggers still come up. And yeah, they are still a little bit painful. And yeah, I have to keep reminding myself that if he wanted me, he knows how to get me. He just doesn’t want me.
    And yeah, I have to keep remembering that that’s okay. That I’m okay. That I’m better than okay, i’m better than the woman I was when he and I were dating. I deserve better than what I settled for back then.

    It’s like, everyday, I need to remember that. And it gets easier, it really does.

  188.  #188Cupcake on December 7, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    Oh, Andrea-

    Yeah. I feel your pain. And the lightness that follows, when you realize the pain is just a feeling that you can switch off of.

    I have What’s App on my phone – if you don’t know it , it’s a chatting application- and that’s how the guy who didn’t step up and I used to check in with each other throughout the day.

    My boss also uses What’s App to communicate with me.

    Sometimes, if I have that application open, I click over to the guy who didn’t step up. I deleted our old conversations, but now there’s just this empty box where our chat history used to be. I thought I deleted him, and his name went away, with his photo, but his phone number still sits there, with no conversation under it.

    It does show, though, when the person was last on line. And it tells you if there ARE online, at that moment.

    So the other day, after chatting with my boss, I clicked over and there it was, under his phone number, ONLINE.

    And I sat there and stared at that word for at least a minute, imagining his phone, and his hands holding the phone, and his fingers typing onto his phone, and wondering who he was typing a message to.

    I realized that every single time I use What’s App to interact with my boss, part of me is thinking, “This is What’s App. This is how I used to communicate with the guy who didn’t step up.”

    And he, for his part, probably uses that application every single day to communicate to who knows how many people, and it probably never occurs to him that he’s not typing a message to me.

    I am quite certain he wouldn’t hold his phone and stare at the word ONLINE for a couple of minutes, imagining my fingers typing on my phone. I would put money on that.

    It’s awful, in a way, the way the connections get blurred. The way the shared world just melts away like the chalk painting in Mary Poppins.

    I suppose I could try to say something uplifting about that. I can’t really think of anything, though, and maybe that’s why I’m still a student of Rori’s on this board instead of a happily married diva with more important things to do.

    I used to have a boyfriend named John, who I absolutely adored. And at the same time, I had a friend named Beth, who was single. I’d spend my time with John, and come home and most nights there’d be a pink phone message from Beth, in my roommate’s handwriting, sitting on the stairs to my bedroom. If I spent a few nights at John’s, I’d come home and find several messages from Beth in my roommate’s handwriting sitting on the stairs to my bedroom.

    Every single one of those pink messages scared me. Because I could picture Beth at home, alone, looking for something to do, reaching out. And I didn’t want to be reminded of what that felt like.

    Eventually John and I broke up, and Beth met someone, and I became the person calling her from my lonely night, reaching into her world of being with someone else and having something to do. (She married him and has two children now.)

    John friended me on Facebook a couple years ago. I accepted his friend request. Then he unfriended me. (And if you knew the rest of the John story, you’d think that was so freaking funny.)

    Anyway– yeah. The car sighting is a trigger. I’ve felt that one. (Not with this guy, who lives across an ocean. Except actually, I know what kind of car he drives, and it really is a jolt when I see one like it, even though I know it’s not him.) The Facebook path crossings.

    We carry things until we put them down. That’s what I keep reminding myself.

    And sometimes, I have to put stuff down a hundred times a day.

    With ya, sistah.


  189.  #189Millie on December 7, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Andrea and Cupcake,
    beautiful, poetic sharing <3
    These stories remind of a concept Mechanic told me about, called "The reactive mind." In the reactive mind state we react to things based on past associations, the key word is react. In reality, those associations mean nothing, a car is just a car, a comment just a comment. The meaning we give it is based on our experiences that become a sort of baggage and cloud us from seeing what is truly in front of is in present day. We become consumed with a past feeling and past association vs. feeling present and in the moment, completely open and unattached to what is in front of us at that moment. I love this concept and it made me feel so inspired to disassociate myself from being "reactive." This is not the same thing as using judgement and choosing not to do something based on the past….I think it is a beautiful concept.

  190.  #190Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    I feel so happy to be home! I got alot done today and I feel very motivated for tomorrow…
    Lots of to do lists but I feel good because its a way I’m taking care of me!!

  191.  #191Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 10:50 pm


    Thank you so much 🙂

    I was inclined to just let the weirdness go and put it down to feeling off and unwell, and take it as a reminder from my body to take care of myself, but also as a reminder to let little things like this flow on through my life.

    It’s hard not to try and get in their heads, but it was a good reminder of that as well.

    Love and hugs x

  192.  #192Indigo on December 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm


    Re: your Spotify story.

    Yes, barely a week after D blew up at me in the most incomprehensible way, and said he was cutting all contact, he added me on Facebook.

    He also sent me an e-mail asking me how I was doing and if I’d had a nice week.

    I will never understand this kind of behavior (and of course, as the typical girl, I have expended thousands of hours of brainpower trying to), but there is only one thing that matters: he’s not stepping up. I am at the point where I am willing to let these little “signs” go, because they don’t mean anything. Or they do, but it’s like such a distant echo of what you really want and deserve, that it’s barely worth paying a moment’s attention to.

    I think what I realized, which was amazing, was how long I’d lived with someone who wasn’t properly stepping up, who wasn’t properly in it and couldn’t be, that I had started to attribute meaning to little things that were actually meaningless. Out of sadness and, I suppose, a desperation that he “make good” on the love I knew he felt for me.


    I love your descriptive of the reactive mind. Great concept.

  193.  #193Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    I feel so happy to be home! I got alot done today and I feel very motivated for tomorrow…
    Lots of to do lists but I feel good because its a way I’m taking care of me!!

    181 Millie those are very strange dreams!
    I think I know whyi had that weird dream anout the guy smoking pot…
    The day before I was at a coffee house buying a latte and the baristas were not calling out our names as the drinks were ready so I almost took someone else’s drink in the confusion and a woman kinda snapped at me lol… I just responded by saying “oh sorry I feel so confused!”
    A man I hadn’t noticed turned to me and said don’t feel bad I’m confused too…and smiled…
    I smiled back and we had a friendly exchange…he was handsome and when he turned to leave he had a marijuana leaf on the back of his jacket like on the shoulder part ,,,strange. So I automatically said to myself “wouldn’t date him”…as I am not a fan of pot smoking….
    Maybe that’s why I had the dream about the date smoking pot !!!

  194.  #194Emerson on December 7, 2013 at 11:31 pm

    I’ve been playing Christmas music in my car nonstop lol

  195.  #195Veronica on December 8, 2013 at 12:32 am

    Ha ha Emerson and Millie – now I’m having dreams about dating men and it turning quite strange/confusing.

  196.  #196Veronica on December 8, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Oh my word Indigo, this is so me:
    “I will never understand this kind of behavior (and of course, as the typical girl, I have expended thousands of hours of brainpower trying to), but there is only one thing that matters: he’s not stepping up. I am at the point where I am willing to let these little “signs” go, because they don’t mean anything. Or they do, but it’s like such a distant echo of what you really want and deserve, that it’s barely worth paying a moment’s attention to.

    I think what I realized, which was amazing, was how long I’d lived with someone who wasn’t properly stepping up, who wasn’t properly in it and couldn’t be, that I had started to attribute meaning to little things that were actually meaningless. Out of sadness and, I suppose, a desperation that he “make good” on the love I knew he felt for me.”

  197.  #197Millie on December 8, 2013 at 2:47 am

    I had a good night even though my throat hurts and I have a cough. This guy that is a friend of friends is very sweet…he offered to make me chicken soup! and he wanted to take me out after the bar tonight…and then eventually dinner he said.
    I had to say no as it was very late and I’m feeling like shit. I felt bad because he seems like a guy that does not have good luck with ladies, but he’s also 20yrs older than me….I just can’t anymore with men 10+ older. I just can’t go there. Mechanic is 14+ older and I cant go there either. Tonight, someone that knew him without knowing how I felt about him described him as a “poonhound.” That felt terrible to hear on all accounts. Are women that expendable to him? Or am I just not seeing the pleasure that can be reached from many? When I think of sleeping with many men, that does not feel good. Is that because I am woman grown up with the idea that that is wrong? Or is it because I truly don’t feel pleasure from casual sex? I do feel pleasure from sex, but continually with a man that does not care, does not feel good. Specialness has something to do with my attraction for a man. If I don’t feel special, then why do it? I can pleasure myself then…. right?

  198.  #198Millie on December 8, 2013 at 2:49 am

    I didn’t orgasm with Mechanic. I didn’t, in my opinion, “give” myself to him. yes, we slept together physically, but it was not more than that.

  199.  #199Sophie on December 8, 2013 at 3:19 am

    “I think what I realized, which was amazing, was how long I’d lived with someone who wasn’t properly stepping up, who wasn’t properly in it and couldn’t be, that I had started to attribute meaning to little things that were actually meaningless. Out of sadness and, I suppose, a desperation that he “make good” on the love I knew he felt for me.”

    This resonated with me too – I’m finding everything such ‘hard work’ and I know it shouldn’t be – I don’t want that for myself – we seem to create something that feels good and connected and easy to me and then B does something that feels divisive like I wake up and he’s slept in the other room and I feel all disorientated and upset again…I don’t want to be in a relationship like this…

  200.  #200Syreena on December 8, 2013 at 3:59 am

    So much stuff came up for me in the night.

  201.  #201Femininewoman on December 8, 2013 at 4:05 am

    I dunno Millie. I read that reactive mind concept as a justification for walking away from any kind of attachment or commitment. With that kind of thinking I can see how Mechanic can easily be the poonhound.

  202.  #202Syreena on December 8, 2013 at 4:45 am

    Mandy, do you think there is something in the statement that he thinks you feel ok about initiating and talking about women who are hot but you don’t feel ok if he talks about women who he thinks are hot?

    Would it be ok with you if he wanted to go to strip club without you?
    Would it be ok if he initiated and invited you to a strip club

    Or does it only feel ok for you to invite him?

  203.  #203Emerson on December 8, 2013 at 6:40 am

    I feel good about today. I have alot to do, but I know I can do it all!

  204.  #204Emerson on December 8, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Millie 197 I feel the same way I need the specialness to feel attracted ….
    I don’t like casual sex either.

  205.  #205Emerson on December 8, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Sirens I’m starting anew today and only being honest in my feeling messages ….I realize I’ve not always been sincere and it’s comin back to bite me. Like when a bew Cd is too flirtatious sexually too soon it feels like a turnoff and uncomfortable and I feel afraid to voice that… But I should be upfront about it….
    Why not I’m only hurting myself,,,.
    I still have an image of cutecityCD that he actually caress about me and yet his actions show that he is not present or available so why am I even wasting my time thinking about it!?!?

    The years go by so fast and life is too short to spend on that!

  206.  #206Linda G on December 8, 2013 at 7:49 am

    I am feeling introspective and a little lonely, too.
    Time does go by so fast, once spent, it’s gone.
    All these years looking or a partner, could it be I just don’t want one, or do I not feel worthy?

    With all the qualities and feelings I desire, I realize I need someone I can speak to on a higher level, emotionally and intellectually. Even just a close friend…I don’t have that connection any more, not since my kids were born and I moved from NYC to the suburbs, where I grew up.

  207.  #207Mandy on December 8, 2013 at 7:59 am


    I have to say, I enjoy it when he asks to go to the club if I am in the mood, or if I ask, I have some masculine energy and he has some feminine energy so I actually don’t mind it if I initiate, although I notice we both do better when we both assume the energy of our given genders. He definitely does better with everything when he throws some masculine into the mix. But generally if things are on my terms I’m good with it. Bisexuality can be very hard to open up about; Rori told me point blank before, it is not something I need to share with him if I don’t want to. I have this is mind and am just going with the flow for now but trying things that feel scary…
    Thanks for your question. 🙂

  208.  #208Millie on December 8, 2013 at 9:52 am


    That resonates with me too!
    We as women have a a tendency to read into the little things. My cousin is having this issue with a male friend who has been intensely flirting with her. She is into him and thought he was into her, until he showed up with another woman one day. She felt devastated and kept going over all the “signs” in her head and was convinced he liked her! I told her, as a cousin looking for her cousin, that if he isn’t asking you OUT on a date, then he ISN’T interested. Sometimes we have to make it black and white so we don’t go crazy adding up the little things. I’ve learned that lesson too…next time if I’m not sure I’m on a date, then it probably isn’t, but better to ask up front than later….

  209.  #209Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Veronica xx

  210.  #210Millie on December 8, 2013 at 9:59 am


    Haha…I can’t stand the term “poonhound.” I will forever be disgusted by that. I literally visualize a hound dog sniffing around the bar or wherever we are….Gross!

    Really? When I heard the concept of the reactive mind, I didn’t think of it in that way….of promoting non-committment. I heard it more about removing baggage and overcoming jaded-ness from past experiences, looking at the world with fresh eyes as if you’ve just seen this car, this comment, this person for the first time and have no opinion or judgement on it. Does that make sense? That is how I see it, how he sees it I’m sure is slightly different. I haven’t heard from him at all since our last conversation. My heels are decidedly strong and planted not to “chase” him. That feels good. I may have gotten sucked in by his charms for a bit, but the clouds have cleared and I feel planted in my reality. 🙂

  211.  #211Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Sophie 199,

    That sounds all too familiar.

    I don’t want to project onto your relationship, because I don’t really know what is going on with you and your man, but I was in that situation more times than I can count with D.

    When I was finally able to get out and break free of it, I realized this relationship opened me up and broke me open in a very painful way, but it was an opportunity to heal hurts and yucky stuff and beliefs. And that’s where I am at the moment. And it is a great gift that relationship gave me.


  212.  #212Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Millie 197,

    Dominique has written some great articles on the differences between men and women in this regard.

    I don’t know so much if these men do feel as shallowly as it might appear, but they certainly don’t seem to attach like we do. So it’s worth keeping in mind that playing with a man like this is going to be sticking your hand into the fire.

    Feel so pleased that you have come to the realization that sex is more special for you, and that you want more for yourself than this.

  213.  #213Sophie on December 8, 2013 at 10:42 am

    211 – it is a big magnifying glass to lots of my stuff – I get confused in the fog though of where’s my stuff and this would just be there anyway and where’s particulars to us/him that I will just never feel happy with…

    when I feel like the flow of connection has been severed I find it very hard to explain how I feel – to reach connection again – I withdraw into myself and just feel unhappy and then he can’t reach me however hard he tries to…very complicated stuff

    it will change again – hopefully i’ll feel more sparkly next week – feel completely drained of energy right now

  214.  #214Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Sophie 213,

    That’s how I felt. The reasons became clear over time.

  215.  #215Sophie on December 8, 2013 at 11:15 am

    love to you Indigo x and thank you x I’m sure they will 🙂 x I have been in many a miserable relationship and know the joys of hindsight! x as you say though the gifts are there in all the ways x this is how it is right now x I’m going to keep on loving myself through xx

  216.  #216Andrea on December 8, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Alright… hey…

    This mirror exercise is really affecting me. I’ve made a conscious effort to “talk” to myself at least once a day. The whole process. I really look deep into my own eyes and I’m really using this practice of being completely confident that the person I’m talking to (ME) really DOES have the answers.

    Therefor I’m sharing and opening up with (ME) a lot more than I’ve ever done before. It’s one thing to share with someone for connection, it’s different to go to someone with your questions because you absolutely know they have the answer.

    This morning I rose early and grabbed my hand held mirror from the bathroom and went back to bed. Stared deep into my eyes. Cried. Felt fear. Stopped asking, “What am I afraid of?” Just let myself feel fear with myself while gazing at myself. Cried with myself while gazing at myself crying. And it was okay. I mean, it was okay to feel fear and shame and unworthiness and anger and regret, to see it on me, to see what it looks like while I’m allowing myself to feel that.

    I felt like… “Why have I been hiding this?”

    Then felt a deep sense of realization… “I HAVE been hiding this.”

    I have been hiding this deep fear, deep deep dislike of myself, deep abandonment of self. And I stayed with it. I kept that mirror steady to my face and stared into my eyes. I didn’t ask, “Why?”

    I just said, “It is.”

    And it was okay. I still loved me too. I still wanted to be in that bed with me. Even though I was feeling all those feeling and looking like a train wreck in a rain storm, I wanted to stay with me. I wanted to BE ME.

    I feel resolved, or resolute. I’ve wanted a man to make me feel like this for a long time. Sure! I’ve wanted a man to make me feel sure, of his love, of my worthiness etc…

    But now I feel it without a man. I’m slightly confused as well. If I feel this way with out a man, does that mean that…

    I don’t get a man? If these feelings are resolved with out a man, does that mean that..

    I don’t need a man? If I don’t need a man to do all this for me, does that mean that..

    I can just let go of this hunt? This chase? This burden? This yearning? Does it mean I can just let go?

    Then, what will I do with all this… energy… I’ve been putting into trying to get a man in my life who will make me feel worthy?

  217.  #217Sophie on December 8, 2013 at 11:29 am

    210 – yay Millie – i feel happy too your feet are firmly planted 🙂 I remember ‘giving up’ chasing and it became so empowering watching the men who could and would step up because they wanted to and just being ‘blah’ about the ones who didn’t want to – I really remember really getting it like a penny dropping that I only wanted to sleep with men who were interested in a relationship with me – it felt very liberating – I can also remember how hard it felt when I wanted to sleep with someone but I kept to my resolve – that was what felt good to me – to have a higher expectation of what I wanted from men I guess and for me, it was because I wanted to practise having a higher expectation of myself and a reallll chance of getting what I wanted not just going round in circles

    I know it’s not like that for everyone and I have no judgement on when anyone wants to have sex or whatever but that’s how it felt when I completely turned things around (I used to get very caught up in men I’d slept with and upset if we weren’t on the same page which we rarely were so I was happy to discover a way that worked better for me)

    And it’s completely true we can tend to justify or see anything we want to see and often like with your cousin be completely confused by behaviours – I agree if a man isn’t asking you out etc he’s not invested in asking you out

  218.  #218Cupcake on December 8, 2013 at 12:26 pm


    Thank you for writing about what it feels like when the penny finally does drop and you find yourself letting go of chasing men.

    I feel that way a lot of the time– and then something happens and I WANT to revert to old patterns. It’s getting easier now to just watch myself want to revert to them and still not take action. The knee-jerk response to want to chase is still there, though, at least about 30% of the time. I just don’t let myself do it.

    So, what happened, then, for you? How did your life change? I feel really curious.

    And if any of you lurkers out there have input on that, I’d sure feel happy to read about it how it feels to get the other side of the shore in what sometimes feels like a very long swim.

  219.  #219Cupcake on December 8, 2013 at 12:39 pm


    I know of what you speak, discovering feelings and then not really knowing what to do with them, what their bearing is.

    Christian Carter said in recent post something about “When something bad or confusing happens, imagine that it will have the outcome that you desire.”

    I thought, “Wow, that’s a good idea. I started doing that. And then the Nasty Voice started accusing me of deluding myself, and when I ignored her, she told me that I was “cheating.”

    That got my attention, because I want to be someone who enacts fair play.

    So I still don’t know what to do with Christian Carter’s advice to visualize a positive outcome. Because of course I want to visualize the outcome that feels best to ME, and dictate exactly what that looks like and who’s in the picture. And then I get all turned around in my head because I know I’m SUPPOSED to just visualize a positive outcome and leave the detail kinda blank, so the Universe can fill them in as It sees fit.

    Am I the only one who has a hard time doing that?

    Going back to what Andrea wrote though– yes. One is supposed to fill the pie chart up with having a fabulous life, with being fabulous.

    That sounds so easy. Maybe it is.

    I recently realized that patience is something I’ve never really worked with much. I think it may have a lesson for me.

    In the meantime, it’s a Sunday afternoon and very cold and foggy where I am. I have a date later and am thinking of it with the non-enthusiasm, non-dread that I’d feel for, say, returning books to the library. It’s never bad to go to the library. But sometimes I don’t feel like checking anything out.

    Wonder what message this new CD will have for me.


  220.  #220Sophie on December 8, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Cupcake – 🙂 I found Rori! ha ha It is probably only on the sex/chasing that the penny dropped – I’m still not where I want to be with my relationships but after a long string of doing the wrong thing with regards to the men I was meeting I read Rori and it made sense! I could see that what I was doing (meeting men, sleeping with them, hoping it would work out) was getting me nowhere other than upset, sometimes addicted and confused..

    I did start to CD and although I’ve had my ups and downs with it my first experience was an eye-opening one – It did show me there were men out there and that if I practised what Rori teaches you can see the results immediately of what she says – I can remember men saying to me things like ‘wow! you’re a really feeling woman aren’t you?” and other things that made me laugh…then, when I didn’t sleep with a man who later became my boyfriend for sometime he told me that it had made him respect me more and it had raised ‘my degree of difficulty’ in his eyes – the first time I refused his advances though (on the first night!) it was scary I wondered if he was ever going to call me but I realised if he didn’t then I didn’t want him anyway and there would be others- I started to learn that the dating period is important to see how a man behaves and how you feel with him

    What I have learnt since then though is that I probably need to date for a whole while longer before getting involved with just one – maybe – or maybe I just need a whole lot more healing in the ‘being in a relationship stage’

    Its easy to say I dropped the ‘chasing’ and I suppose at that stage I did – it’s another thing not to over-function when it goes beyond ‘dating’

    but…..definitely a lot of things changed for me when I read Rori’s ebook maybe three years ago – still I have a long way to go 🙂 xxx

  221.  #221Veronica on December 8, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I found some writings that I did 8/9 years ago – it was just after the worst period in my life. There’s a beauty in how I was cultivating this belief in love, building my own dream of love. I was trusting the wisest part of me to dream up this love. (My wisest part said to me when I was 21/22: you don’t have to do anything to be loved, and I believed it. I don’t know what changed.) I thought ‘wow’ and also had so much empathy for my then self – stuck in situations that were unhealthy, being with people who couldn’t even see how beautifully I was choosing to imagine love. It had very little to do with relationships or what my dream man would be and was more about an active appreciation of my need for love.

    Earlier today I was reading about the qualities that help a long term relationship to grow and I had this warm knowing that I had them. I didn’t question the knowing, I just let it flow into me since I was having a terrible day.

  222.  #222Millie on December 8, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    @Sophie 210–

    “Giving up.” While in other aspects of life giving up is negative, giving up in this respect does feel liberating!!
    Not just giving up chasing (I admit I did initiate with mechanic one of the nights) but giving up trying, giving up feeling bad, giving up measuring myself, trying to be the woman he wants because I envision that woman as better than me. I give it all up. Liberating is a perfect word!

    Yes I tend to play with fire sometimes…… But this time I have no desire to continue. I had my taste of him, my curiosity satisfied, reality served on a silver platter. And this situation reminds me so much of my previous love addiction. How I felt towards that man felt similar to this. And I ignored a lot for that man. I can’t do it again. I have no desire to feel disconnected, to feel yearning for closeness and be denied it, or to be next to someone physically but so far from their heart. The man in front of me is toxic for me. I’ve never read Roris toxic men, but I can already tell he resembles my drug. If he wasnt, well the sex issue would feel different. It’s easier to sleep with a man that doesn’t trigger those addictive behaviors and insecure feelings. But that’s a whole different arena. Anyway, it’s been lovely sharing this all with you…. While I feel slightly defeated by this player, I know in the long run I have won because I have chosen to take care of me first.

  223.  #223Lisa on December 8, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    @Indigo Nice! From my persepective and experience… ( and not all men are the same) it has been my experience that 2 nights in a row can cause that sense of withdrawn and what I’ve found with my men, is that feelings were starting to arise in them…and the did become retrospective … and just when I thought I knew what was going on ( ie: they weren’t interested) then they come back with feelings for me… so I think staying out of their/his business is great advice to yourself…..

    I had that sense last night with “S” and then all of the sudden he ( while dancing with me) says you know Tuesday will be a month! I almost cried… he cooked dinner for me, took me out even when he couldn’t afford it… and dancing b/c he knew it would make me happy… and then spent the night with me and lovemaking for 3 hrs… and sleeping with him is easy… I roll over to see him sleeping so peacefully and he looks so handsome… and I slept well and ladies I cannot tell you the stress I’ve gone through with sleep with past men…. b/c of my trauma sleeping ( and I mean sleep not sex) was always me not sleeping…

    He calls me his Goddess… and still I don’t know for sure how I feel about “Us”… but emotions are bubbling up… he tells me he loves me often…very often and I just love, love, love that…

    and after lovemaking this morning ( yes we both have very healthy appetites) he was so quiet and I caught myself wanting to know what he was thinking.. and I let it go… he said, I love how we are so silent afterwards…. it means so much to me… to just BE with you…. so once again, I was trying to be in his head, and allowing my insecurities to surface…

    He left me this afternoon, and said he really wished he could stay with me all day and do things couples do.. and I felt so wonderful …. b/c with “M” he just had to leave me… and didn’t want to stay or me to stay…. and that felt cold…

    I feel so wanted by “S”…. so desired! So cherished… and man this man wants to please me! OMG! and he lives for it….


  224.  #224Dominique on December 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Andrea – 216 – This is simply beautiful. And it doesn’t have to mean anything at all aside from you felt this and now own it for yourself. And this can only enhance and add to a relationship.


  225.  #225Dominique on December 8, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Cupcake – 218 – The swim never ends. this is a life long process, BUT it does get SO much easier, the time to work things through shorter, and the time between the more difficult feeling spells fewer and farther between.


  226.  #226Dominique on December 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Lisa – 223 – So beautiful. Yay you!!!


  227.  #227Cris on December 8, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    @Lisa so beautiful!!! I tended to think that if men do things or efforts just b/c they know we like those things, it was a kind of obligation… but no!!!! it is a way of showing their love! xoxoxo

  228.  #228Syreena on December 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Thanks for Sharing Mandy.
    That makes sense to me how you would feel.

  229.  #229Cupcake on December 8, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Dear Sirens,

    I went on my CD tonight.

    I wonder why I keep getting men who are really quiet. When I went out with the guy that brought the 20 oz Slurpee cup of red wine on our afternoon walk, the only man I’ve met in this town on OKCupid who can carry on a conversation– I mentioned that it felt good to be on a date where there was conversation, and the guy started laughing. He said, “You keep going on dates with guys who don’t talk?”

    I said, “Yes. It feels weird. I feel that I am approachable and friendly. And somehow my dates lately have just been letting the crickets chirp in the background.”

    He thought this was very funny. He said, “You do know why, right?”

    I shook my head no, feeling perplexed.

    He said, “It’s because you are so very, very pretty.” He laughed merrily. “These poor guys are terrified they’ll say something stupid and mess it up.”

    I said, “That feels like a line.”

    And he kept laughing. “Nope. I’m not that clever. I just can’t believe you didn’t realize that’s what the problem is. They’re afraid to say anything and mess it up.”

    As far as theories go, I like that one, needless to say, because it feels the most flattering. (Too bad the reason he was glib is that he was probably drunk.)

    Tonight was OKCupid date 4 in this new town. I know there are other men here who can talk, because I’ve gone out on coffee dates with gay men, much younger men who are friends, and a Facebook friend of my sister’s, all of whom came pre-qualified and who were blessed with the gift of gab.

    OKCupid Date #4 and the third one where you could hear a pin drop for a lot of it.

    Rori had said it’s okay to help a shy guy out with, “I feel curious…tell me what you love about your work.” Questions like that.

    If it weren’t for questions like that, and the observation that marinara sauce smells good, there would have been no conversation whatsoever at this dinner tonight. There were long, LONG pockets of silence between my overtures.

    He asked me if I like to ride motorcycles. That would be an unremarkable question, I think, if it were not the only question that he asked me at all.

    I couldn’t figure it out. I felt genuinely open with him. I smiled. I was friendly. I felt settled into my body, and I leaned back as much as I could, except that when I did feed him a lifeline question, his responses were so soft that I had to lean forward to hear them.

    I think that, if this third painfully silent date was a lesson, I did okay with it. I remained warm and open, my heart un-zippered. I observed after a while, and with a heart-felt smile, that it felt weird to sit there not talking and yet I didn’t know what to do about it.

    He looked relieved and said, “Yes, it’s always like that for me.”

    And every question that I fed him got around to the subject of his ex-wife.

    Maybe that was the cat that had his tongue.

    He mentioned that he wouldn’t leave the house during the divorce until the judge ordered him to.

    After we finished eating and he’d paid the check, I said it felt like time to go, and thank you for dinner, and it didn’t feel like there was a match here.

    He walked me to my car and told me if I changed my mind, I had his number. I said, “Thanks again for dinner.”

    And then I drove home and called my sister from the car. And now I’m writing you.

    Why all the quiet men? What IS that? And of course – and I’m calling myself on this as I type it to you- it just throws into contrast the wonderful conversations I had with the guy that didn’t step up. We could hardly shut up enough to kiss, the talking was that interesting.

    And believe me, it did cross my mind that maybe he kept talking about his ex because I kept silently comparing him to mine.

    Yes, I did get that.

    Mirror images, right?

    Lunch tomorrow with Kyle. He’s just a friend, too old to be a boy toy and too young to a contender for a serious relationship. But the man can talk, with wit, with poise, with intelligence. Praise the Lord.

    And I apologize for blowing up the board with so many messages. I’m just– and perhaps reading this you will understand why– feeling starved for companionship.

    I wish you all lived in the same building as me, and I’d invite you over for eggnog.


  230.  #230Millie on December 8, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    Cupcake I love how you write. I felt like I was really reading a story. I’d love to come over for eggnog!

    I think slurpee man was correct in his advice that perhaps these men are afraid to say the “wrong thing. ” doesn’t help or change anything but keep it in mind. I find myself talking about my ex a lot to men, not because I still want him or anything, but I tell men that he was te closest thing I had to a relationship and is my only point of reference in relationship discussions. I am making a conscience effort not to bring him up though…. Frankly I’m sick of talking and thinking about him.

  231.  #231Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Lisa 223,

    Thanks. That is the sense I got. And truth be told I was feeling the exact same way. Noticing him feeling withdrawn forced me to acknowledge that I was feeling withdrawn. So I’m just going to take a step back and wait and see.

    I just love reading about how S cherishes you. It must be such a tonic for you and such a wonderful feeling, even if you don’t know how you feel about the whole thing yet.


  232.  #232Indigo on December 8, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Last night (Sunday), C messaged me – we were supposed to get together and he said he was really sorry, that he had to work. It gave me an opportunity to use a feeling message with him, and to also take a step back and “observe” this particular happening, and how I felt about it and what I wanted.

    And this was probably for the best, as I was still a little sick in bed, and memories of D came flooding over me.

    I went from feeling emotionless to feeling awash in a sea of strong and powerful emotions and memories. It felt beautiful and sad, and it was a good opportunity also to feel through this, and take stock of where I am.

  233.  #233Emerson on December 8, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    I had a productive and overall good day. I am not feeling 100% ready for tomorrow but I have faith 🙂

  234.  #234Lisa on December 9, 2013 at 8:19 am

    @Indigo #231 Oh yes, it is a tonic for me… something I’ve waited for my whole life! It brings tears to me…. and I’m sleeping better than I have in 23 years…

    #232 that’s awesome! I totally love how you described that feeling… wonderful! Just wonderful! <3

    and I still have memories and sadness about "M" come up… and reading your posts reminds me it is a process.

    "S" called last night as he always does and needed to come by and get things he forgot here, and when he arrived he could tell I'd been crying and he said to me would you like to talk? I I said maybe? He said, I have all the time in the world for you… OMG! what a man!!… he loves my emotions and he said "my job is to hold the space for your feminine emotions and be that steady force you need while you process" what a turn on!

    Though he is very masculine in that he listens and he doesn't take on any of my stuff… and he is firm in his responses with me in things that he feels about his part… and that I just love!!!

    I don't know what to do at times, b/c it just seems so perfect… and yet, I still don't know about how I feel about him other than I love him… and that's ok… I don't think it is time for me to know yet. Too soon! He is still on his best behavior at this point…

    I'm soaking it up for now!


  235.  #235Mandy on December 9, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Millie – 222 –

    Can you express how “giving up” feels to you? I am trying very much to do this!

    Giving up the negativity, giving up on chasing, trying, feeling bad, etc?

    How do you think it looks like for you?

    I remember when I did Modern Siren how I gave up but I can’t quite remember how it feels or looks….

    your insight would be much appreciated 🙂

  236.  #236Mandy on December 9, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Also, Sophie, would you be so kind to weigh in on the feeling of letting go, too? *smiles*

  237.  #237Millie on December 9, 2013 at 12:54 pm


    It’s hard to “give up.” I find myself still holding on to a little thread. A little thread of caring what he thinks.

    To me giving up feels like a weight off my shoulders. I no longer feel like because he rejected me I am less then. Giving up is not equating his choice with my value. It feels relaxed and calm.. Giving up can feel like I am on a ship slowly cutting through the ocean and he is on land far behind and this is peaceful. Giving up is letting go, surrendering, to yourself. To wrapping your arms around yourself, loving you in spite of someone else. Acknowledging that while he may want a girl that is A,B,C it’s OK that you are not that. Giving up on trying to be that, forgiving yourself for not being that. Relaxing into knowing that because you are not “the girl” for him, doesn’t mean you are not “the girl” for someone else, just as you are, insecurity and all. It’s difficult. My mind and my heart and my body fight each other on this, but giving up feels good. The knots in your stomach are released, your anxiety is gone, maybe you cry….breathe.
    holding on feels suffocating. today I don’t feel good, I’m sick and sad.

  238.  #238sophie on December 9, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    ‘giving up’ – wow! its huge 🙂 I think for me there’s a difference in how I feel when I’m giving up and how I feel when I’m letting go

    For me ‘giving up’ tends to be of unhealthy behaviours – which for me chasing and sex without knowing where I stood with a partner and all of that was … and all of that was kind of addictive – a real surging powerful motion toward doing something which would ultimately feel bad – when it comes to ‘giving up’ somehow something clicks in me and I go ‘nope I don’t want to do that anymore’ a reallll stubborn strong willed shift (I think too we can use that strong will to keep doing the things that are bad for us for some reason…it works both ways)

    Letting go is much more gentle…letting go is just relax and breathe and what will be will be…letting go for me is all the things that Millie says and it’s also sitting with any feelings of panic and fear and just letting them be and knowing that it will all be okay …. for me lots of self soothing…lots of self nurturing…lots of learning to love myself regardless of what’s going on around me…giving myself space away from whatever is tugging at me

    I do still struggle with it all…sometimes I can just let go and feel so peaceful in the knowing that everything will be okay – other times I have terrifying ‘power struggles’ with the man in my life and the last thing I feel capable of doing is letting go I want to control and hold tighter and tighter but…the minute I allow acceptance of what is just burst through the fear that’s where the soft spot is…that’s when I can breathe and know that no matter what everything is okay one man, ten men, no men, there is always this safe and quiet place


  239.  #239sophie on December 9, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Lisa and Indigo – I’m happy to read both of your updates – Lisa mmmmmm the yumminess and I like the curiosity in both of your posts

    I have taken myself away to stay at my parents house whilst they are away and i’m feeling very delicious – I was feeling all drained and worn down and it was feeling oppressive in my home with B and our issues and in the city – it feels very refreshing to be by myself in a different environment – i’m going to do a lot of work functional things and meditation and lovvvveeee the time to myself xxxx

  240.  #240Millie on December 9, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Mechanic doesn’t care about me. He doesn’t give a shit about me. At least this is what I feel.
    I feel angry and confused–why? Because the time we did spend together, he told me a lot about himself, stuff he doesn’t just share with anyone and we had a bond. Or at least I thought we did, a connection on a truthful level. I thought I could be honest with him and he’d be accepting of it. I thought we could still be friends, but now I feel like he’s avoiding me. No contact after our “no fwb” conversation. I want to be friends with him, so I asked him “hows it going?” I don’t see it as chasing, but perhaps it is because I want our friendship back. He gave me the barest of bare minimum “ok” and when I asked if he and I were ok, he laughed and said I had asked him how he was and he answered truthfully.

    I feel upset at myself because I know the reason I asked him that question was because 1. I want to talk to him and 2. I wanted to share how I was. But he didn’t ask me.

    My cousin says he doesn’t deserve my friendship and while I want to confirm that we are still friends, it is not a good idea right now. Clearly things are not the same between us now. I feel like he doesn’t want to talk to me at all…..which is terrible! I’m venting, but why can’t we be just good friends?

  241.  #241Mandy on December 9, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Millie and Sophie, thank you so very much for weighing in, and your guidance with the feeling, it means the world to me, and listening to you really helps a bunch! I feel my heart triggered and opened wide when I read/listen to both of you speak of the feeling of giving up. I intend to ask all the ladies here many more questions and interact as much as possible to learn and give my two cents as well, it’s a very supportive feeling for me! I really do feel that I flourish emotionally when I have a supportive group I can open up to like this. Thanks a whole bunch, you rock! 🙂

    To Millie – I feel you today! I have a headache and I am very much meditating on letting go…I feel very calm right now despite the headache because I’m exploring how it feels to let go…to forget about the agenda of being my man’s girlfriend and having that title and then expecting things because of the title; giving up the reigns. Your description makes a whole lot of sense to me!

    To Sophie – I feel your words a whole lot too…the gentleness – That is so right on, that’s the word I feel! It feels just like the feeling I feel from J when he touches me, how it just allows the tension to melt right off, the seriousness melting away, the weight off the shoulders, the softness, like water or air…going with the flow..being present and raw is what I feel from the gentleness, which comes with letting go. I wonder why it feels gentle instead of scary now? It felt scary to let go but now that I feel it, today…it feels like the most un-scary thing in the world and I am remembering my Siren training.

    I had a dream last night that a man gave me his horse and I took the reigns…it reminds me of the rowboat…it totally symbolizes me taking the reigns and going back to my old ways of making things happen.

    Today I’m just focusing on my inside; feeling things, even if it is numbness. I just felt a little sadness and remorse about how I’ve been doing it all wrong, but then I thought hey this is a LEARNING experience, there is room for error….and I felt better instantly…

    But focusing on the feeling…I feel more in the now when I think of just being in today rather than worrying about the next time he and I will sleep together, the next time I get a hug or a kiss, or when I get to take one from him, etc…

    It does feel a lot better. To just think of today and what I feel like right now. Weight off shoulders yes, stuff off mind yes, out of thinking and into feeling yes.

    Some progress here…and in just a day…it feels great and the feeling of positivity and optimism and hope follows. 🙂

  242.  #242Lisa on December 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    @Sophie Thanks so much! and so glad to hear your loving on you! Time to yourself!

    I fu&^d up…. with “S” big time and though he was wonderful with me last night and I felt better, he doesn’t… and he called today and sounded down and he admitted it caused issues with him… and I didn’t take it on, but I did say what I learned from last night was to process my feelings more before talking to him and just b/c he offers to listen doesn’t mean, that I should talk…. until I’m more processed and he said, I don’t expect you to bring it to me in a pretty package all neat…. and perfect… and I said Oh honey that feels so good to hear and thank you, and he said sometimes messy happens…and yes it does, but it affected him… and now I feel hurt!

    I know I’m not going to try and fix it for him, part of me wanted to…. make it better, but I just said… I hope you have some fun this evening…

    my heart is hurting to know that I didn’t process enough and now he is feeling hurt…and nervous…fearful!

    But the positive in this is, I keep hearing Rori say, you can’t say the wrong thing to the right man… and I’m realizing how much I care about him…. that is the positive! The positive is that I’m just now realizing I don’t want to screw this up, and that I care more about him, than I realize…

    and it hurts! I triggered him in a big way…..

    and hopefully lesson learned.


  243.  #243Cupcake on December 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm


    I had lunch today with Kyle, this nice guy who’s becoming my friend here in this new city. He’s too young for me to really date, although too old to be just completely inconsequential and therefore a possible boy toy. A really cool guy, though.

    I should fix him up with one of you! Who’s 30-ish? 🙂

    Anyway, Kyle, too, is navigating the labyrinth of online dating.

    During lunch he said, “Why do people – in particular, girls- try to only show you their perfect side? It feels so fake. The interest stuff, the stuff that’s real life– that’s in the imperfections. The places where people are confused– that’s what I’m curious about. Not the stuff where they have everything figured out. I mean, not that I want to date a girl who’s a walking mass of confusion. But it just feels weird to me when people only present the side of themselves that they think are all put together. The more put-together someone acts like they are, the more sure I am that there’s a dark pit of insecurity beneath all that fake perfection.”

    I’m sharing this with you because he was extemporizing this post of Rori’s. And it felt interesting to see the honest frustration in his face about trying to find someone willing to be authentic and vulnerable?

    When we left for lunch, I left my phone at home, kind of on purpose. During the meal, I realized that my thoughts kept drifting to it. I suppose that’s typical in the 21st century when you’re used to having a phone. I mean, the satellite didn’t know where I was for 2 whole hours!! Life on earth as we know it could have slammed on the brakes, there!)

    But the thing that surprised me was that I kept wondering if I was missing a call from the guy who didn’t step up. Didn’t care about missing friends, potential employers, telephone surveys. Didn’t miss Facebook. Found my way home without Googlemaps. My boss is sailing in the Seychelles, so I knew he didn’t need me.

    And even though it’s been 3 weeks since the guy who didn’t step up reached out to contact me, he was the one person who I felt a tug towards my phone for. I hadn’t realized how much I still am watching that pot.

    No wonder it hasn’t boiled.

    It’s so hard, isn’t it, to “get” that they really do just switch off. Like, I know– I KNOW– he unless he met someone in the last 3 weeks, there isn’t anyone else in his life that he talks to the way he talked to me. I know because he was gulping down conversations with me like a thirsty sponge in the desert. And he said that he felt so relieved to meet someone who “got” him. He’d been trying to find someone for a long time- and I’m not even talking about dating. Just, anyone. His friends don’t think about the things he thinks about.

    There were hours and hours of talking on Skype– more than Rori recommends, I know– because he lives in another country and we couldn’t see each other. And even after he was here for a week, there were hours and hours of talking. For a while.

    So now every day, around the time of day that he used to call me, I always feel an expectation of hearing from him. And when I don’t, I try to unsnag myself from that thought. I go do something else. I call someone else. When I hit send on this post, I will go for a walk.

    And I try to click off the video in my mind but I do picture him in his house, and I know his routines and — maybe he’s with another girl, I almost wish he were so I could give the silence a name, a reason- but I just think, “surely he misses talking to me, too?”

    Except in truth, he is probably picking up a motorcycle magazine and leafing through that. Or watching a nature documentary. Or trolling through a dating website, looking for someone who can converse like me, but with thinner thighs.

    Or whatever they do, on their side of the dynamic.

    Because if he were missing me, I would have heard from him. We all know that’s true. They are just not that complicated.

    Okay. Well. Off on that walk. And the phone will stay at home. That feels best.

    I love reading all of your stories, snippets of things you think about during the day. Thank you for being there.

    Oh, and I’m warning you– I’m entering the troubled waters of PMS soon. So please, if I’m maudlin, will someone just throw a “Hey, Cupcake, will ya get your period already!” email at me. I’ll try to keep a check on it, but — oy! What a curse, eh? Anybody find themselves crying a lot, PMS? \


  244.  #244Linda on December 9, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Lisa I am enjoying reading about “s” It is nice to see how it feels good to you. It is encouraging too.

    Maybe this man will qualify and win the prize
    and yes that prize is you!

  245.  #245Liquid Light on December 9, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Wow, Cupcake, what an amazing conversation you had with your date. It sounds like he was expressing RR’s philosophy exactly. That is so cool. I think most men feel that way (now that I’ve been reading RR) but how great to find a man who can articulate it so clearly. He sounds like he is very perceptive. Are you sure he is “too young” for you? He sounds great.

    Shortly after I moved over the summer, I went out on a date. I was a total basket case and ended up sobbing hard on our date about how unhappy I was about my life, how I was in a rut etc. It was amazing to me how my date responded. He loved it and put his arm around me and tried to comfort me. I was shocked as I expected that he would get really uncomfortable. And then he said how he liked it because I seemed like I was so together when we met at first. This was a little shocking to me too as I hadn’t thought that I seemed like I was that “together” when we first met but looking back I guess I was putting my best foot forward. I guess men are so used to women pretending that everything is OK/great/fine that when we aren’t and express it, its something really unexpected and a relief. That was my impression anyway by his reaction. And after reading your post, Cupcake, it reminded me of that since your guy was basically saying the same thing. Fascinating stuff! Thanks for posting about it!

  246.  #246Liquid Light on December 9, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    I’m really becoming interested in “signaling”. The type of communication that is often unspoken, through gestures, body language and facial expressions. Another type of signaling is through stories. I believe men do this all the time to test out potential mates and it can start from day 1. They kind of test the waters and send out “signals” to see how you will respond. They are looking for your authentic, unguarded reaction, that’s key.

    Looking back, I believe my ex was doing this a lot esp in the beginning to see if I would play along with the kind of role that he expected of a woman in life. It turns out, I wasn’t ultimately able to play that role, and eventually the relationship ended. Fast forward.

    Last night, I believe I experienced one of these signaling interactions. I was waiting for the airport shuttle and sitting outside. It was cold. I looked over and there was a man standing to my side not far away. He immediately made an expression like its cold with his teeth kind of gritting together. He did it twice looking right at me. I kind of recoiled a bit, it felt like a turnoff as I expect a man to be able to take the cold like a man and not complain about it. I looked away and he stepped back and never looked my way again. I believe he was a feminine energy man signaling for a masculine energy woman who “would keep him warm”. I think that’s why I was immediately turned off by it but didn’t really know why. On an instinctively level, I didn’t feel like he would be someone who could protect me. Anyway, I didn’t really see all of this until I processed it a bit today. So fascinating.

    Unfortunately I suck at subtle communication like this. I need someone to hit me over the head with it and tell me point blank. Its unfortunate because I think a lot of communication happens on this much more subtle level. I’m trying to get better at reading it and responding to it in the moment though.

  247.  #247Shannon on December 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Rori, I want to thank you. A few weeks ago, my 7 year old’s father told me, “I don’t love you anymore, and I will never love you again.” He wanted out, he was done. I was in the complete opposite place. I thought now that other terrible, debilitating issues in our family had begun to get better, he and I could focus on “us” again.

    I was devastated by this, and angry, too. I tried to put the good face on and pretend nothing was wrong… that’s what I’ve been taught to do. I took it like a man… stoic and accepting. I even figured he must WANT to be separate from me and said we’d do everything separately. He wanted to be separate, by god, I’d make sure we were separate.

    I got your turnaround tools maybe 7 days ago. I started using the pose, and ‘dancing’ with him. Moving away as he came forward, forward when he moved away. I also told him that I felt our daughter was being punished by him not eating with us. I know, I made that about him… but he reacted positively and began eating with us.

    Then last Friday (this is Monday) morning, I said I was very sad. He was hugging our daughter, and I spontaneously blurted that I wanted a hug. He immediately backed away, saying that K (our daughter) should give me a hug–if someone deserves a hug, and wants one, you should give it to them. Making it clear that he didn’t feel I deserved one.

    He left for work then… and he didn’t come back. I called once that evening to ask if he was coming home. I wanted to go to a dance… but he didn’t answer and didn’t return until this evening. I read more and got the e-book and read it like crazy… frequently crying and then being angry.

    I left him a brief email at work this morning, “I’d like to chat when you have time, please.” This evening, he came and asked what I wanted to talk about. I made sure I was in the pose while I asked our daughter to go in the other room. He sort of chased her away, himself. Then I said that I didn’t want to be in a relationship with my daughter’s father where he would just take off without consideration for my plans or anything else.

    (more in next post, probably will run out of room any sec)

  248.  #248Shannon on December 9, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    So he, clearly very angry, said, “My life is none of your business. You wanted to be separate. Separate everything.”

    Without thinking about it, I blurted, “I’m sorry. That’s not what I want. I feel so sad. I feel very angry. I feel really hurt.”

    He replied that I was entitled to those feelings. I told him that I didn’t want to spend Christmas with a man who, when I told him I was sad, saw it as a time to punish me and humiliate me. He said he didn’t want to punish me. I replied to him that it was how I felt when he said I didn’t deserve a hug.

    He looked sad then and said he didn’t know how to do that. He didn’t know how to hug me, and honor both of our feelings. I said I understood, and once more said that I was sorry. I started to cry then, “I feel very sad.”

    It was like he completely melted. He asked me if I wanted a hug and I said, “Yes.” And that man hugged me for a good six or seven minutes. Very gently and kindly.

    Later, he hugged me again when I cried again. He told me then that he was sorry we didn’t work out. I said I did a lot of things wrong–it came from my heart and I know it did, because reading your books really made me realize how much of the failure of our relationship really, truly, deeply WAS my fault.

    No matter what happens, if we get together again or don’t, it was a BEAUTIFUL, human moment. We were able to treat each other with kindness. Going forward, if that’s the only final outcome, it will be worth everything. To be able to be kind with my daughter’s father and show her a relationship of understanding, would be enough.

    So, yes… there can be a fast change. I don’t know where it will go in the end, but I could never have imagined, especially after the last few days, that he would hug and comfort me. It seemed literally impossible. Heck, it seemed impossible at the beginning of that conversation! And I got TWO hugs!

    Thank you, Rori. It would be wrong of me to experience such a profound moment as a direct result of your e-book and be silent about it. It was too real and too huge for me to let it pass by without a heartfelt thank-you.


  249.  #249Lisa on December 9, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    @Linda Thanks so much! That feels so good to hear! I do believe I’m the prize…

    @Liquid Light I know non verbal communication is so fascinating to me as well… Wish I could get a degree in it…and yes I agree men are very good at it… and they have the edge on us women… men seem to have this innate ability to signal and test us… must be their hunter gatherer thing….???

    “S” called tonight and I was open and vulnerable and said I had to really love myself tonight and realize that even when I fu*& things up, still give myself love.. he said want to tell me more about that…. and I said well I just realize that I wish I could have communicated better last night and how I realize how it can snowball …. and he said, I think I did well….

    Still he seemed distant… and I noticed it made me want to lean in… and be a bit clingy… and I noticed how that made him react… which was very good for me… to just notice it… and not do it…. and pull it back

    I also noticed tonight when I was cuddling with my child… I don’t NEED him… I’m totally happy and whole without any man…. and in that moment, I felt so free!


  250.  #250Linda on December 9, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Cupcake. I am responding to your post to me back on Saturday.

    I can confidently say I did no leaning forward in the relationship. No rowing the boat. In fact one of his issues has been I dont initiate things. call first, text first, invite him over etc etc. He said he does not feel important, or appreciated because I havent. One of the things that has killed the attraction to him for me is his level of expectation on me . Which seems like role reversal here and what I understand women do to men.. expect flowers or a card, note..and then when they dont get it they are upset, let down disappointed….hold it against them. This is what he has done in the relationship. He said.. “you dont call… so but when I did last week he did not answer.. or was barely answered a text. What a game of BS!

    I had a exhausting 2 hour conversation with him tonight. I told him I felt confused at why he would request I call and then not answer or return it later… I said it felt like it was some mind game.. he said… “no I just did not have anything to say… but how does it feel?… Aaaha!… it was on purpose… !!!! I called him on it and said. How does that help our issues… you asked me to call and then you wont answer? That feels like a big game and like you are trying to punishment to me.

    Bottom line is he said he does not feel appreciated or that I really want to be with him, spend time with him.. etc…. I said right now I dont because I dont feel safe or contentment with him. I asked him if he said “i love you” as an expression of what was in his heart period. or… was it said with a motive or expectation attached to it? He did not answer me . I just stopped it all and said… I have come to know that if I say give or express anything with a motivation of getting something in return than it is conditionally given and when it comes to love that set up for failure.

    anyway…I told him tonight that I feel like that the biggest roadblock in successful love relationships stems from unmet expectations, spoken or not. He did not agree nor could he understand what I was saying.

    He text me saying he did not want to talk anymore and had to think about some of the things I said and figure out if this was going to work or not. I agreed with him and said I was doing the same thing…. it was not long before he called and said… I just want you to know I love you.. I dont want you to think I dont. hmmm He always backs off his “uncompromisable issues” when I dont cave and stand firm. They seem to suddenly as important to him for some reason.

    In fact I said … you said you want a better relationship. said you wanted me to call.. then when I do.. you dont respond because you are mad and playing a BS game and punishing me… when what is really happening is you sabatoging yourself and what you want. How does that help anything???? He finally said…. you are right, I was wrong and tried to hurt you. I am sorry and I see that I should not have done it. hmmmmm okay well at least I was NOT crazy and did not imagine his mind game. He came clean and made himself accountable for his behavior.

    I am thinking aout the Cindy Lauper song.. “Girls just wanna have fun” yep that would feel really great… light hearted.. surprising unexpected fun!

    THe things we discussed are all jumbled in my brain right now. I have to process them through my heart.

  251.  #251Amber on December 9, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Hi Sirens! Usually I just lurk here but I’m having a conundrum. My recent ex, (pre Rori, I WISH i’d had her to fix me before he said he was afraid I wasn’t ‘the whole package’) text me on Saturday night after eight days of silence. “I’m sorry I haven’t responded sooner but I want to thank you for being so sweet and understanding. Thank you Amber.”
    Can someone savvier than me please decode this before I go insane?! Do I respond? (I haven’t yet) Do I ignore him? Help!!

  252.  #252Tereana on December 9, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Cupcake – thanks! And I actually have that book. I love it 🙂

    Emerson – thank you, too. And big hugs!!

    Indigo, I loved your date story – that sounds amazing!

    Ladies, I posted a while back about a support group I started on Facebook for women with narcissistic moms. I know there are a few others on here in that situation, but I can’t remember exactly who of you it was. Let me know if you are interested in joining! There are already several members 🙂

  253.  #253Tereana on December 9, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Amber – hm. I would say this: not responding is not necessarily “ignoring” him. His message sounds like it comes from his heart and does not demand a response. If it were me, and if I sent anything at all, it would probably be a simple “you’re welcome.” But I’m not even necessarily sure that would be helpful. Lol

    I bet if you sent him nothing at all, he would text you again anyway. Guys don’t always assume that we will text them back…

  254.  #254Tereana on December 9, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Linda, that sounds like a really interesting story. It’s making me think as well! How do you feel about this man?

  255.  #255Millie on December 9, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    Liquid Light–what kinds of signals do you speak of?

  256.  #256Amber on December 9, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Thank you Tereana! ‘T’ and I have were off and on for 13 months, but now we’re officially off. We are both dating other people and I’m trying really hard to work on myself. I was an awesome and independent woman before I got so wrapped up in our relationship that I drove him off. Just NOT responding to this text was very hard… I’ve NEVER don that before! Yay me. I think I will hold off responding until I feel like I can do so without an ‘agenda.’ If that takes six months, i will only be a better person when I do it 🙂 Cheers!

  257.  #257Cupcake on December 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm


    That’s so funny that you wrote about the Cyndi Lauper song, because I played it earlier today. I was compiling a list of songs that make me happy. It’s Raining Men was another one! 🙂

    Speaking of which– ARE you CDing? It sounds from your post like you’ve been exclusive with this guy. I’m not sure though.

    That mind game he admitted playing. must feel frustrating. And disappointing.

    I know sometimes in writing down a conversation, the actual wording changes. I feel curious though about what you said, because as we all know the wording makes a difference.

    When I study foreign languages, I learn so much from the leaps forward and the mistakes that my classmates make, and I am aiming to do the same thing here on this site. I know I am far from expert at any of these skills.

    It sounds like you guys had a serious, fairly intense conversation. And when I read what you wrote, you didn’t put down any feeling messages. “When I called and there was no answer, I felt frustrated and confused. I called because I’d been asked to call more and I wanted to meet those expectations. I don’t like the way it feels when someone’s playing a game with me.”

    Again, I feel very aware that I know only what you’re telling me, and the words can shift in being written down. And it sounds like whatever was said, it made the penny drop in terms of his realizing that game-playing doesn’t move things forward. So the result is what counts.

    It just feels like you’re confused about how to make him feel appreciated and whether he’s just asking for more attention or he really isn’t feeling appreciated.

    Does that describe it? Or am I missing something?


  258.  #258Cupcake on December 9, 2013 at 7:50 pm


    Wow, it feels like you have a fantastic attitude about the breakup.

    And I agree with Tereana– he didn’t ask you for a response, so I’d leave it alone and not respond. Especially after a breakup because you want to show him – and yourself- that you’re moving on.

    Good for you!


  259.  #259Cupcake on December 9, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Yes, please do tell us more about the signaling thing. It sounds fascinating.

    I wonder if men read our “vibes” so well because they are so skilled at non-verbal.


  260.  #260Tereana on December 9, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    I wasn’t going to post about this, but here goes…

    So, last week, after I sent the email to the man in California, I had let it go and felt very peaceful. And I didn’t see it, but he sent me a short email back on Friday, saying “thank you for the heart-felt message” and that he would call me that evening.

    Well, it was strange, because I went to a lecture on Saturday morning, and then yoga in the afternoon, and I didn’t check my email at all. But I was feeling quite peaceful. And I was feeling connected to him, like he was right there. I still had no expectations.

    But then, I got out of yoga, and I had a series of texts from him, saying he did not want to communicate anymore, because of a part of my message that seemed to put blame on him for something. I actually was surprised that he had read into that, since it wasn’t explicit. But I knew what he meant.

    I then wrote back to explain more clearly. I said that it was not his fault, and why – it was just the timing. I took responsibility for my own actions. And then I said, it’s ok. I respect his decision and I thanked him for his gifts. I said that I wanted him to leave with a good feeling, and so hopefully I did.

    Only last night did I see his email, stating his intention to call.

    And my conclusion is this: he is not calling me for his own reasons. Anything in my email could have been an excuse. I am not the only one who runs away from relationships. If he is having deep feelings for me, then that could make him look for any reading to run. But I don’t really know the reason. All I know is: it’s not worth arguing. He wants to talk to me – ok. He doesn’t – also ok. I have feelings for him. But I’m fine either way. Because there are other men out there. He can decide what he wants to do. I’m not even sure he’d be the right guy for me anyway. But he does have some special quality that no other man had had for me. A certain “je ne sais quoi,” let’s say. And for that reason, and for so many other reasons, I know that all I have to do to be honest, relax, and be myself…

    Yum 🙂

  261.  #261Tereana on December 9, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention – they totally hired me!!

    It was the lipstick 😉

  262.  #262Cupcake on December 9, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    Linda, I apologize. I re-read your post and see that you did use feeling messages throughout your conversation with him.

    What’s interesting to me is that I read them before, but I missed the “feeling” parts. Sorry


  263.  #263Liquid Light on December 9, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Re. signaling, one thing I remember re. my ex, and this was on our first date, he kissed me on the lips to greet me. I had only met him briefly once before and that was 3 months earlier so his kiss was really startling. He told me later that he did that to see what my reaction would be.

  264.  #264Lisa on December 9, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    @Tereana That’s wonderful!!! Go pink <3

    @Liquid Light oh yeah I've had many BF in the past and current one say the same thing… they tested me… but the interesting thing is … how they know how much to test without going too far… like "S" said he kissed me the first date and the way I kiss gave him lots of lots of info about me… and he said, he was hooked after that… the second kiss that night at the end of the date… he said was a test… to see if I'd kiss him back.. and he said it was all planned out perfectly… just enough but not too much…

    I remember so clearly after our first kiss, that he was so excited he threw his arms out and said very loudly "OH YEAH" with a big smile on his face…

    now the thing is to be very savvy about these things… I'm with you, I'd like to know more…


  265.  #265Veronica on December 9, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    I tried the mirror exercise yesterday. Wow. I noticed a lot of ‘not liking me or my situation’ and a little bit of concern under that. And I kept looking until it seemed like my face was changing and then quite a number of times really focusing my attention to my body and then getting the sensation there. That was difficult. I said out loud the sensations I was feeling. Being done, I sat down and suddenly I notice how me and my body are comforting me, it was a beautiful energy and so quiet. Wow. wow. wow.

    I am so thankful about discussions around not being all together. (Thank you Cupcake and Liquid Light).

    The past couple of days have been quite turbulent for me. Again, screaming, sobbing, throwing things (not glassware) and I also feel bad about myself being this way. I worry that I’ll become violent or that I’ll be punished for showing my rage. I don’t throw things at anyone or want to hurt anyone but I’m afraid of the ‘losing control’. I also felt hopeless, stuck, frustrated. I feel like a mess. I also feel safe enough to show that rage to family – with anyone else, I’m all zipped up.

  266.  #266Indigo on December 9, 2013 at 8:53 pm


    I haven’t caught up on the blog yet, but I just wanted to say to you…

    How does it serve you to tell yourself the story that he doesn’t care about you? It is not a good idea to try and get into his head, and you will probably never know the truth of how he feels, so why go there with a bad feeling story?

    As for friendship, something my mom said to me when I wanted to be friends with D, which was very, very hard for me, was “you have to accept his no.” You want to be friends, but for whatever reason, he does not. I know exactly why you want to be friends – I wanted that so badly for myself – but I believe accepting his no contact is very beneficial on another level.

    Love and hugs to you

  267.  #267Amber on December 9, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    @Cupcake (256) You’d think I was doing well with this breakup but… I’m not. I’m CDing and ‘faking it till I make it.’ I cried when I got that text because this relationship meant more to me than any previously, including a four year engagement (C) and a five year marriage(R). I went looking for an answer when everything went wrong and found Rori. Now I’m committed to healing myself, because the bottom line is that my fear is the basis for our breakup, and whether i get a second chance with (T) or am lucky enough to find something better (I literally CANNOT imagine anything better) I need to be a whole person able to receive love, and I am not yet that woman. I feel blessed to have found the support of all of you other Sirens. My short term goal is to stop being just a lurker and start being a participant. Cheers!

  268.  #268Liquid Light on December 9, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Yeah, Lisa, it really is so interesting. Another thing that he did, and this was right before the breakup, was to kiss and hug two other women right in front of me. I knew on some level that he was doing that to gauge my reaction and to see if I got jealous.

    I think they do this stuff to see our authentic reaction and to know how we really feel.

  269.  #269Emerson on December 9, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    Lots of transitions happening for me….

  270.  #270Millie on December 10, 2013 at 1:00 am

    @Indigo 264–

    Thank you, you are right it is not a good story to tell myself, only how I felt in the moment. Shortly after I wrote that, he did ask me how I was since I have been sick, so perhaps I jumped the gun in saying that. The no contact thing would apply for most guys, but this is situation is slightly unique in that I met him through a mutual friend and have become part of the group. The way I see it, we were friends and then slipped up. I don’t think it means we can’t be friends at all. I accept his no in regards to dating, just as he accepts my no to friends with benefits, but I don’t think either of us said no to being friends. I’m sure after some time we will fall into a norm. I wish I hadn’t slept with him, as much as I wanted to, I wish I had just left that night. Maybe then, I wouldn’t feel so weird.

  271.  #271Millie on December 10, 2013 at 1:08 am

    I’m having some social anxiety as well. So mechanic is part of a group of friends who I am now friends with, but my insecurity comes up for me a lot. These people are all older than me and I find myself wanting to belong but not necessarily feeling like I do 100%. One female friend in particular I am close to, I am not sure I can trust. I believe she secretly loves mechanic. I also doubt if she is someone that really cares about ME vs. other agendas. I feel unsure of her. I want to trust her! I want us to be close and to feel loved and accepted by my friends, but at the same time I feel like I miss the mark. Like mechanic found me intriguing when he met me, but that quickly evaporated once my true self was revealed, my quiet, unsure, intelrospective, self. Now I feel as though I cannot regain my outer layer, it has been leaked back, I’ve exposed myself, and while that should be a good thing I want to reach back for it… Be the confident woman I presented myself to be. I don’t know what people truly think, but it does concern me and I wonder if this group of people I’ve found myself in is really good for me?

  272.  #272Heart on December 10, 2013 at 5:12 am

    Millie – let it go..stop making excuses …you can’t be friends with this man right now…when you get some distance and some clarity you’ll realize what a waste of energy he was…
    This man has stated that he doesn’t want to date you and here you are worrying about whether his lady friend is trustworthy …Who Cares. Get as far away from this Imaginary relationship as you can.
    Best of Luck.

  273.  #273Linda on December 10, 2013 at 5:53 am

    Terena @ 252….

    You asked me how I really feel about this man? Thank you for asking.. it made me really dig in and search

    My answer… came to me as I am working.

    His behavior causes me to NOT respect him. THat is Core to me!

    wow… thank you!

  274.  #274Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 6:15 am

    Amber – 249 – Say thank you. There’s nothing really to decode. Men tend to be straightforward with their verbiage. And remember eight days to a man is not at all what eight days feels like to a woman. Eight days in boy time is like eight hours. To a woman it feels like eight months.


  275.  #275Magic Seahorse on December 10, 2013 at 6:53 am

    Sweet Siren Millie……………………………..

    WAKE UP!!!!!! And listen to your insides…………………….. shhhhhh ………………. What does your insides say to you about what you have written? Hurry get your mirror and “see” YOU. Loving you and caring for you, nuturing your own self. What about your little girl in there too??? What’s she FEELING in there??? Keep breathing sweet Millie………..and look at you. Big hugs and loving energy being sent.

  276.  #276Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Why say thank you and respond if he’s an ex? Unless she still wants him in her life Dominique?

    I don’t understand.

    Do you still want him in your life Amber?
    If so what role would you like him to be?

    It sounds like you need no contact if you are feeling heartbroken about the split. Hugs.

  277.  #277Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 7:29 am

    Why not respond? Unless Amber despises him which could be possible, why not acknowledge him? If she truly wants absolutely no further contact, then okay ignore the message. I prefer to err on the side of kindness.


  278.  #278Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:43 am

    I feel confused as in earlier threads it has been recommended to do no contact if a man has walked away from dating if we have feelings for him and he is trying to stay in contact and play the friend card.

  279.  #279Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:45 am

    And amber states she still has strong feelings for him so feels more than friendship.

  280.  #280Amber on December 10, 2013 at 7:58 am

    @Dominique & Syreena
    Secretly i want to fix my relationship with (T), but I’m not sure I’m ready to receive his love. Based on our past patterns i would interpret this contact as an invitation for conversation, as that has happened in the past. My main reason for not responding is that that i dont want to fall into old patterns. I want to be better at Feeling Messages and receiving love before i try again with someone so important. I really hurt him by building the wall and blocking his love. So I’m feeling confused and a little torn, and I don’t like feeling this way!

  281.  #281Rori Raye on December 10, 2013 at 8:05 am

    Shannon, wow – Thank you so much for sharing your story – and Brava to you for creating such an amazing shift…Love, Rori

  282.  #282Femininewoman on December 10, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Amber frankly I thought also that you could respond to him. He sent some energy towards you because he was thinking of you. The way I see it, if you could let go of any expectation and just respond not expecting anything back it might help you break your pattern. His words weren’t the kind offering you a relationship but they were words worthy of a “thank you”. Who knows if he is the one who initiated the breakup he might be second guessing himself. I dunno. However, in my book a thank you is just a way of showing that you are open to receive.

  283.  #283Indigo on December 10, 2013 at 8:17 am


    If you feel they may not be the right group of friends for you, I would listen to that feeling.

    He may not have specifically said no to being friends, but Mechanic’s behavior says it all.

    You do not need to second-guess yourself like this. You are worth more.


  284.  #284Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Wish you well in what ever you decide Amber.

  285.  #285Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 8:42 am

    Amber – 280 – I think this is beautiful, and a perfect thing to tell him (with some minor changes) if you get the opportunity.


  286.  #286Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Shannon – Amazing. YAY you!!!


  287.  #287Amber on December 10, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Thanks for all thr advice, Sirens. I have decided to respond as soon as i can do so without expectations. I think this will only take another day or two, but i want to be sure i really am saying ‘thank you’ and not ‘please please please love me again’

  288.  #288Liquid Light on December 10, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Millie, Feeling insecure and unsure of yourself isn’t a bad thing, its the pretending that you don’t feel that way that makes it hard to connect with others.

  289.  #289Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Thank you, Rori. On both ‘counts.

    Thank you, Dominique.

    Amber, maybe keep it simple and direct?

    Hi, T. I feel very happy to hear from you; it made me smile. I want to talk to you again, because I feel so good spending time with you. But it’s the holidays and I feel insecure, needy, and confused. I’m afraid I may not keep that under control very well. What do you think I should do?

    Lady, I feel that perhaps your best chance of working out your fear is to get it triggered. A lot. Even more, to speak it frankly and directly.

    Remember that our job is to be vulnerable. Tell him. Speak the words and let them connect you. Be brave… that means speaking the truth to him in a raw and untamed way that lets him be your hero.

    So follow Rori’s rules. Be honest. Make it about you and your own fears within yourself. Say how you feel so he knows.

    I love the Compass concept. You telling him how you feel is the arrow of his Compass. He wants his Compass (your emotions) to point to True North (your happiness). How can he change the direction of his compass, when it lies inert and silent, or if it lies?

    Be JUST brave enough to speak. JUST brave enough to be vulnerable about your TRUTH.

  290.  #290Lisa on December 10, 2013 at 11:26 am

    @Liquid Light wow that was very bold… and I wonder in a guy’s mind… if it dawns on him that some of these testing acts will end things?

    It has for me, I’ve walked away… I guess in their mind it’s a risk they are willing to take…

    “S” is pulling back… and I know why… he told me he is thinking of commitment… and I didn’t ask for one… so…. I’m feeling a strong need to lean back ( that comes naturally to me) but I don’t want to lean back too far…

    he called to say happy 1st anniversary… ( so sweet) I’ll call him back in awhile… but I just not sure how to deal with my need to lean back and then also not want to seem distant… uggg such a touchy thing this is…


  291.  #291Mandy on December 10, 2013 at 11:33 am

    The ladies here never cease to amaze me, each and every one…

    I feel especially impressed with Shannon and Linda right now…their situations call for some serious Siren speak, and oh my goodness did these ladies deliver!
    Linda, I feel for you in your situation, yet you figured him out and you even got him to apologize – amazing!

    Shannon…I feel for you the most…yet you are doing awesome, and keep doing it…you rock!

    And Liquid Light you are so smart and insightful…about how men test us…that is so right on…

    You ladies are all SO smart and insightful!


  292.  #292Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 11:36 am


    If I may be so bold and direct, I think you need to widen your focus. Remember what Rori always says about when we get obsessed with just one man, it’s time to Circular Date.

    Go out today. Go to the gas station. Lean back as you think about what kind of coffee to get–even if you already know. Show openness and approachability.

    Go to the pet store. Talk to a cute guy about a pet you don’t really want… you’re just testing the waters.

    Your confidence is down; and you are focusing on a single man so much that he’s obsessing you.

    Go find some men to flirt with for no reason than because you’re a woman and we love attention; even if we’ve had that love beaten out of us by life or family or mockery.

    Go dance with strangers. Even if the ONLY reason you’re there (like the ONLY reason I’m going to a dance on Friday) is to gain confidence for dealing with the man you DO want… go dance with men you might not necessarily want.

    Then they can feel good, and you can feel good. A successful and pleasant encounter builds confidence, even if it’s only so much as the handsome young fellow at the counter seeming to go from totally disinterested to smiling and so focused on you that he doesn’t seem to want you to walk away.

    In Rori’s word, go be the sexy siren by circular dating yourself. Take yourself out. Show yourself a good time. Invite male attention and preen for it like a sweet little pea hen who’s being courted by five big peacocks with their tails out while they dance for her.

    How can that NOT improve your confidence? 🙂

  293.  #293Mandy on December 10, 2013 at 11:43 am

    By the way – update –

    There has been a VERY positive shift within J. He has seen, since working with his father doing yard work (his dad’s a Realtor and J helped him clean one of his houses up), that even though his tummy problems are keeping him from getting a regular job, he can do odd jobs and gigs, they are not as big a commitment, and he has taken the responsibility of getting us to the bus station to get us discounted bus passes so we can take advantage of what the city has to offer us – AND we made $75 together doing graphic design for a friend of mine together! 🙂

    SO very happy for this. What a great guy he is! It’s amazing what happens with just a little push in the right direction 🙂

    My mom seems to have answers about this whole health insurance thing, so she’s going to take us to the DES office and help us get straightened out with it, so answers are coming!



  294.  #294Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Thank you so much, Mandy.

    I am using the principles of the ebook and I’ve bought “reconnecting.” I want to be married. I’m in that place in my life. This time around, I’m not going to settle for anything making my daughter a flower girl. It’s her dream–and it’s not just hers, it’s mine, too.

    I can’t think of anyone more ideal for me than her father. I would rather be with her father than anyone else for two reasons: He’s a good and decent man, and he’s her father.

    Yet if he’s only practice for the man who comes along and marries me, then I want to be ready for that man, so I am going to practice my ever-loving guts out! :p

    I want to be a wife. I knew it just before he dumped me… and I still know it. Now I feel the freedom to choose not to connect that possibility ONLY to him. To not hang my hat solely upon him.

    So I found a singles group in my area. I’m dressing up. I’ve changed my hair, I’ve changed my dress, I’ve changed the way I keep the house (I hate messes–but I allowed myself to quit housekeeping well out of resentment–no more!!).

    I love him very much. But I want to be married, for the rest of my life, to one man. I made SO many mistakes with him… because I didn’t know better.

    I’ll make more mistakes because I’m human, but I won’t make so many long-term, over-reaching mistakes.

    I am on board with Rori’s teachings in the book, wholly and completely. Because I know what I want, and I sensed IMMEDIATELY that Rori’s book was right for me. I have always been a bit of a follower and always noticed that “will to please” in men. What I was taught kept clashing with it… but this doesn’t.

    I’m all in. I’m getting married. To my ex or someone else… but I’m getting married. I want it and will have it.

    I’m going to fight for him first. I’m going to fight the warrior-woman way. I do love him, and I believe that if he thought I was His One once, that I can be again… if I can get him out of what his head THINKS (that he couldn’t possibly love me again) and into what his heart KNOWS (that I’m His One), that we’ll make it.

    If not? I’m getting married anyway. And I’m not going to wait. I’m searching right now, in case he decides that his head is right and sticks to that; which is his right to do.

    So yeah. I’m scared out my gourd. Petrified. I’m always terrified when I’m the center of attention, and I’ve believed myself unattractive for a long time now. But circular dating is already working. I’m 42, and I have had very young guys looking at me like I’m beautiful in the last few days! And it DOES feel nice–and scary, too!

    I’m doing it. Look ma, no hands! Wheee!

  295.  #295Cupcake on December 10, 2013 at 11:50 am


    If you see the ripple effect with other men coming towards you– men friends, men from the past “checking in” with a deeper interest in you–

    And men you don’t know, opening doors, engaging in a deeper, more connected way-

    If you see this happening with people in the outside world, and people in your phone and on Facebook–

    Do you think that it means that your energy must be shifting inside? I mean, it MUST mean that, right?

    And if it’s shifting– it’s shifting, right? It’s not just shifting part of the way, in some arenas? I mean the tide comes in on the whole beach. It doesn’t stay back on one corner of it because there’s still a beach towel and an umbrella sitting there, and somebody who won’t go home?

    I’m asking because I see that happening. I mean, I have never had so many men from my past texting me hellos and “check ins.” Never. (And not ex-boyfriends. Like, co-workers and friends. But guys.)

    I’m asking because I still feel so lost and confused about the guy who didn’t step up. trying to accept his pulling back as “just the way it is” and the Universe offering me a different path to an even better man.

    I have to “switch” the thoughts in my head all day long. It’s like a broken remote control that keeps jumping back to a channel I don’t want to watch.

    And I read your postings, and I feel like I’m the kid in the back of the class who isn’t quite following the algebraic trick happening on the board. Because I’m good at math, but I can’t work this particular problem out.

    So– I’m asking for your input here– if the stuff is happening with other men, then my energy must be shifting with ALL men, mustn’t it? Even the one who didn’t step up, even if I’m not seeing it yet?

    When I look in the mirror and ask myself this question, I get a yes. Yes it is shifting. And yet, I don’t know why I still have to change the channel all the time.

    I stand back and watch all of you with such respect and gratitude. That’s for being in this with me.


  296.  #296Cupcake on December 10, 2013 at 11:58 am


    I wanted to high-five you on the new job!

    I may have to go look for that lipstick you bought!

    Of course, it was the girl sporting the look that nailed the job. Well done you, and congratulations!


  297.  #297Cupcake on December 10, 2013 at 12:01 pm


    Your energy feels amazing through the screen. I feel inspired by it.

    Thank you, and you go girl! (And if you feel that attractive through a blog posting– OMG, no wonder all the handsome young men are checking you out!)


  298.  #298Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Cupcake, can I tell you some straight up?

    When I look at you, I see a beautiful young hen standing in the yard. All these amazing, fabulous peacocks are strutting around you. They’re dancing, and they’re shaking their tail feathers, and they’re showing their bling…

    And all YOU see is the tired old rooster in the back, with his head under his wing, sleeping his life away.

    Girl, date some of these peacocks. Take your eyes off the tired old rooster, and decide what your “prize” is. Is your prize HIM, or is your prize being loved?

    There are billions of women on this planet who would give their left tit (yep, I can be crass) to be surrounded by peacocks who are shaking their tail feathers at them!

    Don’t squander it. When you date men, you increase your self-worth. AND THEIRS. It is a gift to them, to see a beautiful, feminine Goddess receptive to their energy, even it’s only for a dance or a date. So go out there and focus on shaking YOUR tail feathers at some of those peacocks.

    Don’t put your eggs all in the basket of a guy who already trampled them, beautiful lady!

    I’ve got to go now. I wanted to thank you for your post before I left, though; it made me smile so big! I’ll be back later. Thank you!

  299.  #299Cupcake on December 10, 2013 at 12:55 pm


    Thank you for writing, and I like your image. I have to say I smiled at the idea of the men I’ve been meeting being strutting their plumage like proud peacocks. The men I’ve met here so far– and believe me, I know there are better ones out there, and this has just been a weird pick of the draw- – but the men I’ve met in the almost 3 weeks since I’ve heard from that one guy- these new men have been bedraggled, sorry-looking peacocks with tails that don’t fully unfold and bent feathers.

    I think you hit the nail on the head, although are hammering a different board…. 🙂

    It’s not that I’m so caught up in the sleepy old rooster. It’s that these other peacocks have been so unappealing. And then I come home and that involuntary tv turns on in my head, and I remember better men I’ve known, including this most recent one who, aside from not stepping up, was a lovely, lovely person. Very much a man, in the best sense of the word. Very much my ideal, in many ways, in the way he handled himself in the world, with me and everyone else.

    You are right: I just need to meet more men.

    I just need to meet better men to distract me. They are out there. I have met other men who possess the qualities that I liked in the guy who didn’t step up. So I know he’s not the only man on the planet who can make me happy.

    I just need to meet better men than the ones I have been meeting. I like what you said about it being a gift to the guy’s self esteem to get to go out with a goddess like me. And it’s good practice for me to sit there thinking of myself as the prize.

    Tonight I am going out with a few people and will probably meet new men. That will be nice, even if none of them turn out to be CD material. I have met 3 men in this city who are attractive and intelligent and manly. Sadly, they’ve all been inappropriate for various reasons. (Age, married, age.)

    You’re right though. The answer is still meeting more men.

    Thanks for writing.


  300.  #300Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Cupcake – 295 – you already know the answer to this question, and it’s yes. change yourself, and you change the world around you.


  301.  #301Amber on December 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Shannon (289)
    Thank you so much! I literally copy/pasted this and will send it when I can feel calm an peaceful about that decision. I have never waited for anything I wanted, and never taken ‘NO’ for an answer from anyone. I would argue, cajole, convince, nag and do whatever else it took to get my way. 90% of the time it worked. I’m breaking this negative pattern by forcing myself to wait and receive. When I feel like I can put that message to (T) out into the world and truly ACCEPT that there may be NO REPLY, I will send it. I will be open to a reply, but I will not NEED it. I feel I am becoming a stronger woman by the moment and I like how it feels!

  302.  #302Liquid Light on December 10, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Tereans, congrats on the job!

  303.  #303Mandy on December 10, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Cupcake – 243,

    It sounds like Kyle really is an intelligent man. I would totally keep talking to him and practicing with him, he sounds very good to be doing that with and it sounds like he makes some great points about his fellow men. I’d like to hear more of what he has to say. 😉

    He’s right. It’s SO easy to just say well I’m authentic and real…but to actually BE authentic and real…

    I watch “My Cat From Hell” a lot, and honestly the show’s host, the “Cat Whisperer”, Jackson, works with cats in ways that are a LOT like how Rori explains how to be with men. Such as when the cat feels crowded or smothered, he will back away or remove himself from the situation, or when the cat feels he has no territory of his own, he will act out, and Jackson finds ways of showing the cat that he is safe, and can have what he needs to be happy.

    Funny, the parallels and connections in life we can learn from!

    I’d even venture to say it might even be a good idea to practice leaning back with a dog or cat.

    I have always just run up on my cat and scooped him up and snuggled him within an inch of his life – and I hate to say it but I’ve been doing the same thing with men all my life. My boyfriend even explained to me that if I just let my arms down, stay calm, let my cat come to me, sniff me, then rub his head on my hand, and open my arms, he’ll come to me and it will be much better an experience.

    Animals give their answers with their body language and it is so natural and authentic.

    I think I will actually try it, with my cat, even though it does sound weird! 🙂

  304.  #304Liquid Light on December 10, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Awhh, that show My Cat From Hell sounds great, Mandy. I love cats and can’t have one where I live. What channel is that on???

  305.  #305Millie on December 10, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Thanks for the advice ladies.
    I think I’m definitely going to take a step back from this group of people I have found myself with.

    My confidence IS down, but I have been circular dating myself and going out and flirting! I’m a flirt 🙂 in fact I just got in trouble for flirting with another woman’s boyfriend. As much as I sound like I’m hyper focused on mechanic, there are other things in my life.

    As far as friends goes, I’m sure we will be friendly in public, but any deeper a friendship would be in his court at this point. I know you all think its not in my best interest to even associate with him and that while unspoken, he is saying no to friendship. I don’t beleive that, I just think it isn’t going to turn around over night. We”ll see…. I’m tired of thinking about it. At the end of the day I am worth a hell of a lot more than this bullshit.

  306.  #306Femininewoman on December 10, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Shannon wow!! I love 298

  307.  #307Femininewoman on December 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Cupcake I got the shock of my life today. The man who I was last engaged to resurfaced after how I don’t know how long. I didn’t even recognize his voice. I am shocked that he still has my number though he suggested that he has more than my number. It felt creepy but there you have it. We have a long history together with him rubberbanding back and forth. It was really shocking to my system to receive that call today. Then there is one who is relatively constant these days. Sometimes it seems he is trying to drive me batty. Everytime we speak he keep asking me “you missed me”. Or you “like me”. Sometimes I believe he is trying to wear me down. No matter how many times I tell him “no” he still keeps asking. You’d think the no would get him to stop wasting his energy.

  308.  #308Lisa on December 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    I have this subconscious thing I do when men won’t take NO for an answer and keep bugging me… I chase them back and they never come back… it works like a charm…b/c they are men that like the chase and the more you say no the more they try harder…

    Now I’m a basket of confusion… the plot thickens… I ran into a man that every time I see him I smile without even knowing how big my smile is… and he is the only man I’ve gone out with that made my heart beat faster… and so I smiled really big and did a cute little wave, I had my daugther’s head in my chest comforting her, so I couldn’t really go up and talk to him… and he smiled back really big… I let him go to commit to “M” b/c I felt he wasn’t really that serious about being in a serious relationship and “M” seemed to be… but I wasn’t really sure of it when I let him go…

    Now I’m a mess… but hey he just smiled and said hi… nothing else… so it’s just fantasy until something else happens… right?

    I’m feeling weird about “S” cuz I don’t know what’s going on with him…. but I’ve come so far, I know that I circle date so much that even if he decided he can’t commit… there are more wonderful fish out in the sea…


  309.  #309mary on December 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    hello Mercedes!


    love, Mary

  310.  #310LoveAlways on December 10, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Hi Sirens:

    I am determined to catch up with blog, even if I’m just Lurking for the next few weeks. I want to jump in and congratulate/hug/advise, but I’m still a bit triggery (is that a word, lol). Either way, realize I am here wishing you all hugs and good energy.



  311.  #311Cris on December 10, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    wow!!! I only can say all of you are so brilliant and poetic and active lately… I love you all, smart and beautiful ladies!!

  312.  #312Sirana on December 10, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    I walked in the door holding our son on my hip. He kissed our son on head and then walked over to daughter and kissed her. I felt so excluded.

  313.  #313Sirana on December 10, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    I walked in the door holding our son on my hip. He kissed our son on head and then walked over to daughter and kissed her hello. I felt so excluded.

  314.  #314Sirana on December 10, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    I walked in door with son on hip. He kissed son on head and then walked over to daughter and kissed her hello. I felt so excluded.

  315.  #315Amber on December 10, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Sirens,
    Just wanted to publicly congratulate myself. I was sitting at work and just suddenly felt very sad. No real trigger that I can pinpoint, just suddenly a wave of sadness… My usual response would be annoyance with myself, ‘i don’t have time for this, etc.’ Instead I RODE IT, I embraced it, i followed it all the way to the end and now I feel great. FEELING my feelings is so much better than denying them. Thanks, Rori!

  316.  #316Amber on December 10, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    just sending you love

  317.  #317Amber on December 10, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    I sent (T) the text exactly as Shannon (289) wrote it here. less than 5 minutes later I got this reply:
    “You are amazing in every way. I think you should be understanding and know you made a absolutely wonderful impact in my life. I will NEVER find another woman who made me feel as wonderful as you. With that you should do what you think you should.”
    Is THIS an invitation to continue the conversation? I feel so clueless and I don’t like feeling this way!
    I’m grateful to all of you, Sirens.

  318.  #318Lisa on December 10, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    @Shannon great advice I’ll do it…

    I was just going to post that I’m full of fear and saddness- tears tonight and he’ll be here soon… and what to do….

    Last time I saw him I show up at the door with tears…. so I didn’t want to do that this time,,, but Shannon is right be real! Be me! Be vulnerable


  319.  #319Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Amber, 317… This is how we get into our heads, not into our hearts.

    How did this message FEEL to you?

    When I asked my ex, “what do you think I should do?” about something, and he said, “you should do what you want,” I took that as…. I should do what I want.

    Men are always in “think” mode, but I would take “do what you think you should” is “do what you feel is right/ do what you want to do”.

    He was just very raw with you and vulnerable, himself. He told you that he cared and that he finds you wonderful.

    What does that mean to you? What does that feel like to you? He just pretty much said he loved you. So what does that feel like to you? He told you, point blank, on no uncertain terms, that he treasures and adores you.

    Where are YOU going to take that??

    I sense authenticity in him and from him. Do you?

  320.  #320Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Cupcake, dear one… maybe he’s just in that place right now. Sometimes the timing just isn’t right.

    So meet every man you can, peacock or pigeon. Every interaction with any man that boosts your sense of connecting to a man will help you to improve your self-esteem and hone your skill in being receptive.

    We do get caught up in one man… but the truth is that there are so many wonderful men out there.

    I just love men. They are awesome. Just spend some time appreciating men–even the pigeons. Pigeons have their place, even if they do poop a lot. They have some amazing qualities, and if you can find and appreciate the qualities of pigeons, when your mighty phoenix arrives, you’ll be prepared.

    If you aren’t appreciating the pigeons, then the phoenix will burn you and you’ll flee… you won’t have honed the vulnerability and the ability to appreciate yet.

    That would be a shame; though there are always more. Personally, I want to be all done and settle down… and never forget to lift other men’s self esteem by showing them that someone noticed and appreciated them. Even if they’re a pigeon.

  321.  #321Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Lisa, 318…

    Yes. Be who you are. He can’t comfort you if you lie about how you feel. He also will feel that you’re not being real. He’ll take that personally whether it is or not.

    That’s what I take from what Rori has said, and it feels completely right-on to me.

    It also feels terrifying. So many of my old messages creep in… what if he thinks I’m whiny and pathetic? Men don’t like emotional women… blah blah. Messages that don’t fit, and haven’t worked.

    I’ve always believed that, if I don’t like ham, I should say so instead of eating it. Because then I’ll be expected to eat it every time.

    If he shows up and you stuff your feelings, then you have to keep stuffing them. You’ll be expected to be happy when you aren’t–whether by him or only by you.

    Rori says that men can handle our emotions. They WANT to help us feel better.

    So I say let him.

  322.  #322Amber on December 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    I honestly felt… annoyed, at first. Then I re-read it and realized exactly what you just re-affirmed for me. He cares deeply for me. He wants me to do what will make me happy.
    I realized that my annoyance wasn’t annoyance, it is FEAR. Huge, in my face, fear. What he brings out in me is so big and important that I am AFRAID to let go and just feel it.
    One minute I feel like the sun just came out on a cloudy day. I feel smiley, I feel like dancing and spinning and jumping for joy.
    The next minute I feel like running away and hiding. I feel insecure that even my joy in his presence will send him running. Before Rori I would have stuffed all of these feelings, the joy and the fear. Now I’m trying to feel them and it’s really hard. It’s REALLY, REALLY hard.
    Thank you, Sirens

  323.  #323Liquid Light on December 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    I just talked to a man whom I haven’t met yet for an hour! He just kept going on and on. He seems to have some really good qualities but of course I’m focusing on the negative ones, like I’m prone to do. Please, ladies, do let me know how to keep an open heart, even when the man isn’t perfect and my first inclination is to write him off…I have to stop doing that. He seems like a good man – good job, devoted father, solid and grounded, good heart.

  324.  #324prplpsn28 on December 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Hey everyone! I have been away for quite some time. Need to catch up big time. Things are going good with H. I still struggle with my own insecurities but am getting better with choosing “TRUST” (Dominique).

  325.  #325Amber on December 10, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    I cant remember which in program, I think Love Scripts for Dating, Rori comments that especially when we first meet them, men are just struck dumb, and they feel the need to prattle on just to fill the silence and/or impress us. Maybe open your heart a little and realize that this man is so struck by YOU he can’t remember all of the games he’s SUPPOSED to be playing to win you over, and he’s just being as real as he can. Cheers!

  326.  #326Zia on December 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    So at the moment I still seem to be attracted to men who are unavailable, or uninteresting (and unwilling to pursue). Perhaps still some part of me is still unavailable……. geeze this “opening up’ work takes a while. On the plus side, its great that I can recognize this and don’t just start chasing them because they’re a guy I find physically attractive!

    I’m actually noticing now while I might be attracted to them on some level, the fact that they don’t offer much more than that starts to become a turn off.

  327.  #327Liquid Light on December 10, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    @Zia I know exactly what you mean, it does take a while to open up. I’m working on that too!

    @Amber Thanks! I love what you said, thank you!

  328.  #328Amber on December 10, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    (T) text me asking what I think I should do. He hasn’t been this into me for at least six months. All I can do right now is be still and try not to panic and run. This feeling stuff takes some willpower.
    Also I got a text and a call from the cute server(P) I met at the Improv on Saturday night. Feeling like I have options is definitely calming me down a little and taking some of the focus off (T)
    Cheers, Sirens!

  329.  #329Amber on December 10, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    LiquidLight(327) you’re so welcome ((hugs))

  330.  #330Shannon on December 10, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    It IS really hard, Amber. There’s no doubt about that.

    Standing there in my kitchen, talking to my ex… keeping my eyes on his with complete focus made my stomach quake and me shake and my palms had a cold sweat.

    Such vulnerability goes against everything we’ve been taught. “Don’t be such a girl” is used as an INSULT, for pete’s sake!

    It’s hard and it’s scary. But you want this! Remember? You want love. Real love, with a man who accepts you as you really are–even if what you really are right now is a bundle of confusion.

    You want him, you want joy. We all do. So if it’s what you need, say you’d like to talk to him about it tomorrow. Say your emotions are all over the place between joy and fear. One minute, I feel elated, the next minute, I feel terrified. I want to gather myself before I make a choice.

    It goes to show how, even when we get what we want, we can sabotage it so completely. This is EXACTLY what you hope for, and still you are afraid of it.

    I want a relationship of true joy and intimacy. Yet I also know that it took absolutely ALL of my courage to keep my eyes on his while I spoke to him of my raw, vulnerable feelings. It turned out beautifully… but oh my goodness… it was hard.

    We have to face our fears. We have to admit them and permit them.

  331.  #331Amber on December 10, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Thank you for being exactly what i need at exactly the right time. Kismet, I think!

  332.  #332Tereana on December 10, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Amber – this place will totally suck you in – in a good way! Lol

    Did you text back to him already? How long has it been since he last wrote to you? It sounded like the breakup was a while ago, and this was a random recent text. Is that right? If so, what about this (just a suggestion, of course): “thank you. It feels good to hear that from you.”

    As long as it’s true, obviously. If you only say what is true for you, then you can stay on the territory of what you actually know, rather than what you think or expect or want or need or suppose or assume or hope or don’t have yet. You know how you feel. You can’t go wrong 🙂

  333.  #333Tereana on December 10, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Linda – not sure what number post that was, but that felt powerful! Somehow, you saying how you didn’t feel you could trust this man had the strength of your conviction behind it. And you don’t even need a reason. No apologies.

    I’m glad the question helped! 🙂

  334.  #334Tereana on December 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Shannon 330 – that was beautiful! 🙂

    Cupcake – yes, you are right. They hired me, not my lipstick. I was joking, of course. But what it did for me was it let me express who I was feeling myself to be that day. And that’s totally part of the job. And I rocked it. So, in a way, it was partially true 🙂

  335.  #335Tereana on December 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Shannon 330 – that was beautiful! 🙂

    Cupcake – yes, you are right. They hired me, not my lipstick. I was joking, of course. But what it did for me was it let me express who I was feeling myself to be that day. And that’s totally part of the job. And I rocked it. So, in a way, it was partially true 🙂

  336.  #336Tereana on December 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Oops, double post!

    So, here is how I am feeling about Cali-man. Or I’ll call him lakeman. He gets a moniker now.

    I am operating on the basis of “the wrong man will get out of the way of the right man.” It’s like they KNOW, I swear. Lol He knows he’s not the right guy for me. I know it, too. So in a way, I feel GRATEFUL for him stepping out of the way. It makes things easier for me.

    Now, there were some good things there. I still feel something for him, and I decided if I was going to fall, even for the “wrong man,” I would just let myself fall, and see how that felt. Instead of scary, it felt like I landed on a bed of feather puffs. It was soft and fluffy and light.

    And I have expressed myself fully. If he doesn’t want to be with me now, then I know it can never be right.

    So I am letting it go, easily, gently, and accepting his “no,” as someone wrote recently. Not arguing for my own position. I am accepting his point of view and letting him do what her needs to do. And I feel better.

    I am holding the space gently between us (NOT him, or the idea of a relationship with him). But just “holding” it with curiosity. Looking there, and at other places in my life. Getting to where I need to be and doing what I need to do.

    I am very happy with my choices right now.

    Except for one thing. I was invited to a holiday party that I really didn’t want to go to, and I convinced myself to go anyway. I felt this “social obligation” and then I went. And I regretted it. Ugh. I’m just not ready for the parties and the mingling and the talking about myself yet. I just need to be reclusive and introspective and really be in my work and focus on myself and the people important to me one on one.

    I’m sad that my brother doesn’t talk to me. I really don’t know why he doesn’t. Maybe I should send a feeling message.

  337.  #337Amber on December 10, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Update after -328
    I text (T) “I feel like my emotions are all over the place. I feel joyful and fearful all in the same minute. I feel so mixed up I’m terrified.”
    Sirens, his response BLEW ME AWAY
    “You’re a girl, silly. Your emotions should be all over the place. They say that time heals all wounds. Give yourself that time to go through the emotions and I bet you will come out on top like you always do. I admire you and I always want to feel that way about you.”
    I am crying as I write this.

  338.  #338Millie on December 10, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    298 Shannon–

    I LOVE THIS!!!!! Haha….. I am the same way, surrounded by peacocks showing off their feathers and I pick who impresses me, but who impresses me does tend to be an old rooster in the back.. or a rooster that thinks he’s a peacock haha! I’m 27 and I keep falling for older men in their 40s…..

    Your post made me laugh though! I like your sassiness! I hate how I’ve been the past few days. I really want to work on my relationship to me….I think it needs some attention right now 🙂

    Thanks for your advice earlier too! Much appreciated

  339.  #339Emerson on December 10, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    I’m feeling sorry for myself. I feel like nobody cares if things are difficult for me. I feel very alone. When people try to help me I feel so uncomfy sometimes. .. Why is that? Should I be glad and isn’t that supposed to make me feel better?

  340.  #340Emerson on December 10, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    Lots of thing put in Perspective for me lately …

  341.  #341Veronica on December 11, 2013 at 1:57 am

    I did the mirror exercise again this morning. I could barely get past my throat – all blocked up. It was as though my little child was saying no, it hurts too much today. I really like this tool. I can look at myself but going into my body is difficult, I keep getting bouyed back to looking at my face. There’s nervousness when I shift my focus to my body. I did notice though that I was more present with myself afterwards for a while.

  342.  #342Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 2:51 am

    Amber, that’s amazing. That’s a good man right there. Before, I might have thought, “seriously? I’m a girl, I’m supposed to be emotionally strong!” But now I see that as the genuine, loving response that it really is. Total acceptance and embracing of the REALITY of how women are. Keeper right there. 😀

    Tereana, 336, Wow! You are bold and magnificent!

    This is a wonderful place and Rori’s teaching is truly inspired and amazing. I am so grateful to be in this place at this time. One thing about it that brings me great joy and comfort about it is what I get to pass on to my daughter! She can learn from age 7 instead of 42, to speak her truth with feeling!

  343.  #343Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 3:25 am

    I went to a parenting class last night; mostly just to get out of the house. It was in my price range for the moment (free) and they had free child care and hot chocolate.

    I challenged myself by using the principles on the only single guy in the room. He was much younger than me, and at first wouldn’t even meet anyone’s eyes at all.

    By the end of the evening, this very stand-offish young man was exchanging smiles with me and nodding at me in agreement. When it was done, he shook hands with the facilitator… and me.

    It reminds me of how us being authentic can open up another person and boost them, too. Not only us. I know perfectly well that nothing romantic will happen with this young fellow… that wasn’t the point, anyway.

    It just felt good to make a connection with another human being, especially a man.

    I also noticed that it brought out all kinds of STUFF for me. Like I felt judged by everyone else, and obviously I have NO idea what they were thinking! And I felt BAD not paying attention to others “equally”. I realized that I have strange notions of social obligation and of other people’s expectations of me.

    Anyway, just thought I’d share how strange it felt to flirt in a group. It’s the second time I’ve noticed that I feel like I’m supposed to give all the men around me, equal attention, regardless of what’s going on. Almost like I think they are ENTITLED to respect from me by virtue ONLY of being a man, or attention, or affection from me, etc.

    Strange and interesting.

    Thanks for reading my strange voyage, lol.

  344.  #344Syreena on December 11, 2013 at 4:57 am

    That felt interesting to read Shannon. Thanks for sharing.
    I believe that it is society and culture that has shaped a male sense on entitlement re respect.
    And that females are supposed to show respect to all men even if it means disrespecting ourselves or they are being disrespecting towards us by treating us in a way that feels disrespectful.

    To me I will only show and give a man respect if he treats me in a way that feels respectful to me.
    If he orders me about, talks down to me tries to bully or objectify me, dismisses my feelings or what I say then I don’t respect him. He isn’t worthy of my respect.

  345.  #345Syreena on December 11, 2013 at 4:59 am

    That’s what we have been taught when we were little to be respectful regardless of how we are being treated.

    Bugger that for a game of soldiers I don’t want to play that game any more.

  346.  #346Dominique on December 11, 2013 at 5:16 am

    Liquid Light – 323 – Have you tried simply feeling curious? Curiosity naturally opens the heart.


  347.  #347Dominique on December 11, 2013 at 5:18 am

    Purple – 324 – SO nice seeing you again. You sound so good. YAY you!!! Please know insecurities may linger for always. They DO get easier to deal with though so that they don’t take you over, overwhelm you.


  348.  #348Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 5:33 am

    Alright, so now I am coming to something else that just terrifies me. I need to establish a boundary.

    I wake our daughter up in the morning by basically tickling her awake. This morning he told her (nicely) that she needs to be quiet in the morning because someday there will be other people around like roommates or whatever.

    Here’s my discord, though… I want her to wake up feeling good, happy, and excited. I want to encourage a natural waking up through exuberance and play.

    I feel really afraid of saying this to him. When he said it and asked if I agreed, I was sort of noncommittal. I felt sort of cold-cocked by that and I shut down, not able to really respond except to say that I felt sad. I also felt afraid, but I didn’t identify it at the time (not as in didn’t say it, as in I didn’t recognize/ identify it within myself right then).

    I also sensed him withdrawing yesterday and into today. So I feel uncertain as to whether I should just speak my truth or lean back and let him take that space he seems to think he wants.

    I feel so confused. He did sweet things, but still felt withdrawn. Like he said the babysitter I got for Friday wasn’t necessary, and he scraped my car windows. Yet he still felt very drawn back in general.

    Being not in control feels scary and uncertain.

  349.  #349Syreena on December 11, 2013 at 6:25 am


    Who is he to you.
    Who is he to your daughter?
    Does he live with you?
    Are you married?

    Is he her Dad?
    Is he your boyfriend?
    How long have you known him?

    How old is your daughter?
    How is she noisy in the morning?
    Is this ok with you that she wants to and is noisy in the morning?
    Is it ok with you that he is saying this directly to your daughter, rather than discussing it with you first?

    What do you want her to do in the morning?

  350.  #350Syreena on December 11, 2013 at 6:35 am

    I just read your story Shannon.
    Am guessing you mean your Daughters Dad who you live with but are not married to?
    And he wants her to learn to be quiet in the mornings?

    What do you want?

  351.  #351Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 6:36 am

    @Shannon Thanks! I did just that and he is so good at communicating I said “I’m nervous” and then he gave me a card and candy.. 1 mo…

    then when he ask how I am, I said I’m feeling weird and he said would you like to say more about that…. I said I’m feeling fearful and vulnerable right now… he said do you know about what… I said yes, I’m afraid of my love not being reciprocated… and he said, I love you, you know! He listened … it was good then he told me he had been having fears too about work and his biz etc.

    So, later on after laughs and such and lots of kisses, he said my heart is in this with you and I don’t want to do this with anyone else but you…

    sooo sweet…

    so now I know he ( b/c he said it) we are a couple… what he is feeling…

    BUT here is the big clincher… I feel weird now… like what did I just do! ( did I just commit without really wanting to) ???

    Later he told me he gets in these funks and withdraws from too much fear… and that it might seem like he is pushing me away but he isn’t… and then he said he “NEEDS” me… and thanked me for being strong…

    I feel weird now… is his funk that he gets into causing his biz issues? Does he have depression issues? He said he doesn’t manage his money well…… I don’t know what that means… how bad it is?

    I feel super weird now… is he wanting me to always be the strong one… and take care of him when he is in his funks? How often does this occur?

    I want a man that communicates and is in touch with is emotions…. and all, but I’m not looking for lazy… and he said he is lazy… now I’m concerned… what that all means…men tell on themselves and I’m feeling there is big “info” in what he said…uggg


  352.  #352Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 6:41 am


    He is my ex-boyfriend of 10 years who asked me to marry him, but it just never quite seemed to happen (well, there are reasons, they are my fault). I would like to be married to him still. He ended things a day before my daughter’s b-day (Halloween).

    He is my daughter’s father.

    We live with him still. He said we could remain there because he thinks it’s best for K (our daughter).

    We are not married, but I was ready to take that step and was going to tell him, ironically, when he dumped me.

    Our daughter is 7.

    The subject of her being noisy in the morning is complex. I’ll tell you what I intend to tell him, because it’s the truth of how I feel.

    I get up in the morning really early. When it’s time for her to get up, I go in and I tickle her awake.

    While J and I were together, I would go and shush her all the time. I tried to make her be quiet so he wouldn’t get mad. I felt terrible. I want her, while she’s still a child, to get up with laughter and joy. I want her natural exuberance to prepare her for the rest of the day.

    When I would shush her and try to keep her quiet, it felt awful. It felt like I was killing her childhood and destroying that joie de vivre that she has. It felt ugly inside and it hurt to squash her down and silence her laughter and joy.

    I don’t really mind that he said it to her. He’s not the kind of man who will stick by what he says no matter what. If we talk and he changes his mind, he’ll tell her so. I suppose it might be better to say something to him about saying it to her before me, but I don’t feel good about doing so. That feels like treating him with distrust, but I do trust him, so it feels discordant to me.

    I want to tickle her and I want her to wake up in the morning with laughter and all the joy that is childhood. I want her to feel like her wonderful joyous personality is okay… even in the morning.

    And I’d rather get awakened by an exuberant child even when I’m exhausted, than have to spend every day of her childhood silencing her laughter.

  353.  #353Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Lisa, I think it’s a question of just kind of going with the flow for now. When the opportunity comes up, make some simple statements. I don’t believe that we can change men. That’s the truth of the matter.

    However, I do believe that we can influence them to become more of themselves.

    “I don’t like to worry about money. I want to be comfortable in my relationship, that the man in my life has the money matters well in hand.”

    Let him do with that what he will.

    “I like it when a man is motivated, especially when he’s motivated to take good care of me. I want a relationship where I can feel confident that my man is ready and able to tackle whatever needs to be done.”

    Maybe he’s lazy, or maybe it’s not laziness, maybe it’s a lack of the proper motivator; love.

    A few weeks ago, I realize now that J had become lazy. Interestingly enough, I said to him a couple days ago, in a light way, “I don’t like messes.” The guy has been cleaning up after himself ever since!

    Is he a slob? I thought he was… but now he’s cleaning up after himself. Was it just a lack of motivation? Maybe I had ceased to be his Compass. I hadn’t told him how I felt about messes!

    May I tell you a story? I know it’s something we should avoid with our men, but maybe amongst us women, it will help.

    Before I had my daughter, I was sort of drifting through life, just getting by. When I had my daughter, it changed everything. I wanted to be an author, I wanted to be awesome! Suddenly I was motivated…

    Maybe it isn’t that he’s lazy. Maybe both you and he PERCIEVE it that way… but maybe it’s because he doesn’t have a Compass yet that says, “This is the road to happiness” and points towards having a good, stable job, etc.

    You see what I’m saying? Not every quality is set in stone. Not every “slob” is really a slob, sometimes maybe he just isn’t motivated to prevent messes??

    Maybe he’s not terrible with money, maybe he just hasn’t felt motivated to deal with it head-on. But when his Goddess says she wants to feel completely taken care of and comfortable financially… who’s to say that it won’t motivate him sufficiently to change it?

  354.  #354Syreena on December 11, 2013 at 7:27 am

    Thank you for sharing Shannon.

    Do you think having an agreed time of what time you all think it is ok for noise would work/
    If you told him your truth and asked him how he thought it could be resolved, do you think he would be able to come up with an agreeable and amicable solution?
    What would be an agreeable and amicable solution for you?
    Or is it a dealbreaker for him or you and he wants quiet and you want your daughter to be allowed the opposite? So you and he are not able and don’t want to resolve?

    If he likes quiet and you and your daughter want to be noisy?

    Don’t know what times you all run on.

  355.  #355Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Shannon honestly it feels a bit annoying to me reading about you tickling your daughter to wake her up. It doesn’t feel natural to me to be honest. In any event it is not my choice to make. Bringing it up to him doesn’t seem like boundary setting to me. It more seems like a power struggle. Your warrior woman rearing her head because of love spurned. Tickle or not to tickle just seems like preferences/options/differences to me. I also wonder what your daughter would want. I know I wouldn’t want to be tickled awake every morning. It seems invasive to me.

    What I feel concerned about is “He said we could remain there because he thinks it’s best for K (our daughter).” What do you think?

    To me it seems like having your cake and eating it too. He gets to keep a psuedo family relationship though he does not want to be with you? What if another man sees you and are interested? What do you think is best for YOU? In a very short while your daughter will be grown and moving out of the house. In a very short while.

  356.  #356Cris on December 11, 2013 at 7:34 am

    Just thoughts…. what does make a man being perfect? (At least a “bit” perfect for our needs)…. Is that feeling which is called “being in love” and that nobody can explain?.
    So the question @Lisa maybe is: “Do I like/love this man”? sorry… I understand it’s only one month of relationship so time to discover what causes us uncomfort

  357.  #357Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 7:36 am

    I really doubt that it is about the noise. What is the core issue between the two of you? The noise is just a symptom, a hiccup that could easily be resolved if the elephant in the room between you two were addressed.

  358.  #358Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:04 am


    Your posts 244 & 245 make me feel really angry.

  359.  #359Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:07 am

    Femininewoman, thank you!

    You reminded me that there is more I need to say to him. I do want him to be able to get enough sleep, and I DO believe that we can find a solution together.

    K loves being tickled awake! She absolutely loves, loves, loves it. She’ll ASK for it, and she is sad if I don’t do it. It works very well for us and helps set a tone for the day with her. She wakes up laughing and happy and that feels good to both of us. I would not do it if she seemed to feel it was invasive, but she shows every single indication of absolutely loving it and feeling sad when it doesn’t happen.

    Yes, of course there’s more going on in our relationship than just this. Maybe it isn’t about the noise, I don’t really know except for what he said, you know?

    For me, it’s not about the noise, but rather about how I FEEL when I shush her all morning–which is BAD.

    If I am going to follow Rori’s teachings (which I am, because I believe in them), I will simply tell him how I feel (both that I want him to get plenty of sleep, and that shushing her feels bad)… and Trust that he has the innate intelligence to come up with a solution.

    And of all the questions I have in my relationship with this man, his ability to come up with brilliant solutions is definitely not one of my doubts!

  360.  #360Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Cupcake 243,

    I have found it helpful to just go with these feelings, these memories, even the times when I compare other guys to D, not to resist them.

    I say, just let reality sink in gently, at its own pace. I don’t like the idea of being harsh with the part of myself that wants to remember him, or love him; I don’t like the idea of rejecting that part of myself. So I kind of just allow the thoughts and feelings to flow, and flow through. The intensity and frequency tends to lessen over time, and everyone’s timeline is different.

    I don’t like the idea of fighting myself in any way.


  361.  #361Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:13 am

    Syreena, I do believe in his ability to find a solution. And I also know that I love him and value him enough that I will allow myself to be led by his decision.

    That’s part of trusting him and letting him be the man. This is definitely NOT a deal-breaker for me.

    It is, though, an opportunity to be honest with him, to connect with him, and to trust him. A chance to be vulnerable instead of just stomping on my fear and stomping on my sorrow at feeling like I am squashing my daughter’s childlike joy.

    I’m not being honest about it to get my way in whether or not there’s noise in the morning. I’m being honest because I love him and I want to be with him and even in little things like this, resentment can be created.

    I want to clear the air now, not just squish my own feelings and dishonor us both.

  362.  #362Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:15 am

    Lisa do you know a man or any human who is not lazy? About something?

    Have you asked yourself if what you are looking for is a “perfect” man? What is a perfect man anyway?

  363.  #363Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:19 am

    “Yes, of course there’s more going on in our relationship than just this”

    Do you have a relationship?

    Does he believe you have a relationship?

  364.  #364Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Indigo I am seeing 244 and 245 from other people.

  365.  #365Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Femininewoman, one more thing.

    I DO think it’s best for K and I to stay here for now. If things don’t work out in my attempts to turn our relationship around, and I meet someone else, then I’ll cross that bridge.

    For now, it IS healthiest for K to stay in her school and be near her friends. In the last year, she has had some horrible experiences. She was diagnosed with a chronic medical condition last year at this time. Stability is best for her for now.

    I also know I don’t have to make a decision on it right now. For now, it feels right to stay here for many reasons. I almost moved out at first, but it was because I was angry and I wanted to reject him the way that he rejected me. I wanted to punish him… but I don’t want to punish my daughter and I no longer want to punish him at all.

    I also want to be here because living with him still is the best hope of turning this around and restoring our family.

    Additionally, from a pure financially strategic viewpoint, it’s best right now.

    However, while I don’t take responsibility for EVERYTHING in our relationship, I do feel like my inability to truly be a WOMAN is at the heart of so many of our issues. He is a really good man. He tried so hard, but I didn’t know how to be a woman in a feminine energy way.

    If I can repair this, I’m going to. Not having to shush my daughter IS me setting a boundary–it’s saying that my feelings about silencing my child matter.

    Yet I appreciate your input very much because it reminds me that I ALSO very much want his need for sleep to be honored, too.

    I’m going to make the very terrifying decision of telling him what I want and how I feel and then accepting his solution–or at least trying it.

    I screwed up, and I screwed up badly. With a REALLY good, decent, loving, eager-to-please man. I want to keep him, and I’m going to do my best to soften and follow and be who I am naturally.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Shannon I feel happy that your daughter’s preferences and feelings are considered. Your comments though suggests some confusion around where you are with this man and what he sees as a future for both of you.

    Have you considered your option of moving out and moving on with your life?

  367.  #367Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:26 am


    Your story about the noise in the morning made me smile, because it made me think of my childhood, where my brother and I had to tiptoe around in the mornings so as not to wake the grown-ups, and the fear and tension that created in us. We even had to use plastic spoons with our cereal! This was my mom trying to keep the man she was with happy.

    It is so amazing how time changes things, and how the energy and boundaries shift, because now, all these years later, I have no fear about being myself, and whatever noise that entails, at whatever time of day. And it is harmoniously accepted by those same people who were so irked by it when I was a child, because of how they’ve changed, and because of how the whole dynamic has changed.

    I often think back on it in awe and marvel at how things have changed for the better.

    I don’t think anyone’s true nature, adult or child, can be suppressed forever. And I think the world is a little less bright and a little sadder every time someone dims their own light.


  368.  #368Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Oops Feminine Woman, typo, 344 & 345.

  369.  #369Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Thanks for explaining Shannon. I see you answered some questions before I asked. It does seem to me though that your focus on fixing the relationship is misplaced. I can’t “put my finger” on it but your writing is coming across to me as a woman who is not honoring herself.

  370.  #370Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:37 am

    femininewoman, it doesn’t feel right to me right now to give up and walk away. Where he feels things are is based on who I became. A woman filled with resentments and anger. Not every decision is final, even when we think it is.

    I heard him when he said he would never love me again. I understood it. I am circular dating, as I said above, because whether it’s with J or someone else, I want to be married.

    I don’t know how to successfully explain this, but I feel like he still loves the woman I was before I became controlling and ungrateful and resentful. And now that he’s getting to see the real, authentic me again, I feel like he’s dancing with her again. With fear and uncertainty, yes.

    As Rori has pointed out many times, though… men don’t want to leave.

    I believe, and I feel, that I was His One. And I feel that if I become THAT woman again… that loving, excited, straight-forward woman again… that I can be His One again.

    Perhaps I’m clinging. Yet I feel love for him and I feel hope for our family.

    I don’t have to give up on him right now. I don’t have to move out and move on just because his words were “I will never love you again”; said to the angry, bitter woman I was acting like when he said it.

    Now that I know better, I’m not her anymore. And I GET why he didn’t want her. She wasn’t very nice, even when she was trying to be nice.

    She’s not me. She’s who I was trying to be to fix and manage everything.

    Meh, I’m trying to express something that’s so confusing, lol. And I feel attacked and like I’m doing something bad or wrong by loving a truly good man just because he rejected me when I was behaving badly.

  371.  #371Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Shannon your thought about entitlement is yours. Not theirs. It might have been learnt but it also be unlearnt. Awareness is key. Obviously you are building your awareness by noticing your feelings and your thoughts. That said, I do believe that everyone should be respected. Respect means different things to different people but as mich as possible I believe respect is one of the building blocks of a solid foundation for any relationship.

  372.  #372Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Indigo, thank you. I also had the experience of being expected to be totally silent. I did not do so well with it (as it’s obviously coming up now in my experiences with my daughter and trying to silence her). It’s nice to hear that it’s quite possible to come out the other end and feel good about your natural exuberance.

    Thank you!

  373.  #373Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:46 am

    I am not attacking you Shannon. Just trying to express what I am experiencing over her reading your words. The thing I believe you might be missing is that men are champs at keeping the status quo. I believe you need to shake things up a bit. You being there doesn’t allow him to miss you in any way or to experience what it will be like not to have you in his life. He might just need that to crave the connection you share. Trying to be the “perfect one” for him will not make him love you any more. If he can love you when you get messy and things get messy between you then I believe you will have a keeper.

  374.  #374Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Femininewoman, 371

    I feel angry, unheard, and misrepresented. I stated that it was my feeling. I stated that I had strange ideas. I don’t want to talk with you about it anymore. This conversation is starting to feel really bad to me.

  375.  #375Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 8:49 am

    @Feminine Woman #371 Right on! So true and well said!

    @ Feminine Woman #362 that is a good question and one that I’ve thought through and even with my therapist. No, I don’t know a human being that is not lazy at some point… and I also know that if someone that is needing money badly stays home and chats with his friends all day and doesn’t do much, is quite another story.. Lazy is a spectrum… and I have to decide if his modus operandi is going to work… I don’t want to be in a relationship where I’m needed b/c I’m the responsible one, the proactive one… you know?

    These are the red flags I mentioned a couple of weeks ago and said my eyes were open… meaning there is enough there to keep going for awhile to see how it unfolds but enough awareness to know that these might be deal breakers …..

    Thanks for asking


  376.  #376Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:51 am

    I apologize Shannon. I am sorry.

  377.  #377Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Lisa I understand. It reminds of Christian Carter who talks about the roles that people play with each other. These roles naturally evolve and he encourages to look at the roles to see if we are okay with them. I believe that is what you are doing here. Looking at whether you want to be the strong one. The responsible one. The one who might need to rescue the other. When reading the conversation about finances what popped into my head was maybe discussing something about wanting the man to be the leader for taking care of the finances. Also having stability with finances create a feeling of safety because it is not something you want to be worried about.

  378.  #378Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 9:12 am

    more on that topic…. I do tend to attract men that are wanting to be the one taken care of, and also men that are less responsible… ( that’s an understatement) and so “M” my last one and long time ago “C” and longer time ago “R” was really the only men I’ve been in relationships with that were responsible… in that way…

    “S” is definitely responsible for his actions, his emotions, but I don’t know to what extent he mean’s “I’m not careful with my money”. I do know he is trying…. and that feels good.

    I don’t want perfect but on the other hand, I don’t want to be another man’s mama or motivation, or money manager.

    I’m patient, supportive and understanding, BUT to a limit…I’m not going to fix it for him…. and I’m not going into co-dependency and enabling again…. You know??


  379.  #379Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 9:17 am

    @Feminine Woman Yes! thanks! and I’m very clear I don’t want to be the strong one…that feels very masculine to me… I can be strong in my feminine power yes! That feels good… I can be this very powerful feminine woman that her man can come to when he needs that love and safety to talk about his feelings…

    and I can certainly use that script to talk to him about it…

    and I’m very clear I’m done with rescuing… spend years recovering from that issue… 🙂


  380.  #380Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 9:20 am

    “and I’m very clear I’m done with rescuing:”

    🙂 🙂 Love it. Your intention is coming through loud and clear.

  381.  #381Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 9:27 am

    #380 @FW <3 Thanks! 🙂

    @Shannon I know when reading about Rori's experience with her then BF and living with him, I believe she found a way for him to "miss her" and her living in the same space with him, by just totally focusing on herself… I don't know if that is of any value to you or not…. but thought I'd share… I'm sure you are doing what feels best for you… <3


  382.  #382Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 9:30 am

    I have also read Rori write about at least giving yourself the “mental” option of thinking about leaving can create the vibe. Just choosing to think about the possibility I guess and how it would feel to be in a different place in the type of relationship you want.

  383.  #383Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Thanks, Lisa.

    I am focusing hard on going out. I’m doing singles dances, and I went out last night, too. So I’m making sure to “get out” and to meet other men.

    Additionally, I am moving forward with a local organization that helps women in crisis, and making arrangements for if I do need (or want) to leave.

    Femininewoman, I am not trying to make you responsible for my feelings. I have a disorder that makes communication super hard for me. I get very frustrated, very easily, when I fail to say something clearly enough.

  384.  #384Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 10:17 am

    I had a really lovely evening with C last night.

    We watched a movie at his place, and he was a perfect gentleman. More than that, he was just.so.sweet.

    He was so cuddley and affectionate, he was holding me and stroking me and tickling me, and he just seemed so pleased that I was there, it was as if he was melting into me. I felt very “held” and “claimed”, if that makes sense.

    And he was trying to make plans about when we’re going to see each other again, and he said he’s been crazy busy at work this week.

    So I am happy to let him sort it out. I am going to be over here, feeling good and feeling feminine, and feeling all warm and enjoying myself. I have lots of other things planned, as this is my birthday weekend.

  385.  #385Liquid Light on December 11, 2013 at 10:21 am

    LIsa, to me that’s something to keep an eye on. Him saying he’s not careful with money could be a red flag. It could be a signal that he is putting out there to see how you will react. If you accept that part of him, not being careful with money, then that will be a tacit agreement that its OK with you, and he can continue to be irresponsible with money.

    If it were me, I would be very careful with how I handled this and not sweep it under the rug. I think it should be addressed…how you do that is another issue but you’ll figure it out. Its a delicate situation though IMHO. Good luck!

  386.  #386Kyla on December 11, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I feel turned off and concerned.

    All of the dates I have been on recently have turned from cool, masculine, easy going men that I enjoyed chatting to into clingy, insecure men begging for reassurance about where this is going after only one date! And all of those dates have felt super good and gone really well! It feels icky and confusing and I want to scream! After the date I respond in the same warm way, I answer texts at the same time I always did before we meet and yet if 10 minutes (literally, I’m not exaggerating) passes they are blowing up my phone with how they don’t understand why I’m ignoring them, they are feeling vulnerable, feel afraid I’ve lost interest etc etc. I feel so confused.. I seem to be attracting very clingy feminine energy men who are wrapped in their feelings of insecurity although they don’t appear that way until after that one awesome date. I don’t get it. Then when I express my confusion they seem even more desperate for reassurance of my feelings or say they are experiencing deja vu again, this always happens??!! I feel so turned off, I don’t want to date a girl. I want to be the girl!

    Eek what am I doing to bring this out in them or why am I attracting this?

  387.  #387Kyla on December 11, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Big warm hugs Shannon. That living situation sounds desperately painful. Dig deep down into your feelings and keep reaching for the deepest feeling you can touch. I was in a similar experience recently and its amazing how much your ego can protect you from even acknowledging your true feelings until you have the safe space to do so.

  388.  #388Dominique on December 11, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Shannon – 348 – It seems as though you are maybe wanting to help him with whatever is bothering him/on his mind, possibly fix it for him.

    Whatever is causing him to withdraw, he has to figure out on his own. You cannot do this for him. It will feel mothering and smothering.

    When and if he’s ready to share, he will.

    If it continues on for awhile, say a few days, you can say this to him – You seem far away. Is there anything you want to say to me/tell me?

    And accept his no if necessary. Or he may share.


  389.  #389Dominique on December 11, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Shannon – As a speech –

    I don’t want to shush our child in the mornings. I want her to wake up in the morning with laughter and all the joy that is childhood. It feels so good being awakened by an exuberant child even when I feel exhausted. I want her to know that her wonderful joyous personality is okay… even in the morning..

    What can we do here?


  390.  #390Kyla on December 11, 2013 at 11:14 am

    I am throughly enjoying how men are responding to me expressing myself in fun, flirty and completely honestly vulnerable ways. On the most part the calibre of men who contact seems to be shifting rapidly in the direction I want. Better men, better emails, better conversations, better responses to my sharing, better date offers. The clingy guys are mostly ones I started chatting with shortly after first joining POF so maybe they are just showing me how my vibe has been shifting in a direction that is no longer a match with theirs and they can sense that? Hmmm interesting. This dating thing is soo fun and soo confusing.

  391.  #391Liquid Light on December 11, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Kyla, it sounds like you are having a blast! 🙂

  392.  #392Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Wow, Amber, that is Awesome. What an amazing response

  393.  #393Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Cupcake – I super love your writing! I especially love what you wrote, that “the tide comes in on the whole beach.” That’s like my quote of the day. Maybe it’s just a phrase I’ve never heard of, but still, I love it. Much better than “when it rains, it pours.” So cliche. Lol

  394.  #394Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    I just checked and there is a new post! I never catch the new post first. Lol

    Anyway, lest you might think that I’m getting overly obsessed with the guy in California, let me just reassure you that I am CD-ing it up like usual. Even though I don’t feel “ready.” Even though I don’t want to date or be in a relationship right now. Even though I’m not exactly sure if I can handle being with a guy for the rest of my life!!

    I’m doing it anyway.

    I’m talking to cute guys in the train (I chatted up a cute young one today! He had a nice smile : ) I’m getting texts nearly every day from a guy I previously went out with – also in California (orchid man). There is another man out of state who says he wants to come visit me. And I’m letting him plan and follow through with the whole thing, if he wants to…

    I realize that it can make men happy when I talk to them. I am believing that I am good company and they like to spend time with me. I don’t doubt my attractiveness. I might doubt my ability to “hold on” to a relationship. So I might “hold on” extra tight, to the idea, or to the notion of the man, and as soon as I do that, I start to forget about the man himself, and stop treating him as a person and instead as a “thing” in my life, which is of course detrimental, but it’s what I know (going back to family experience). So sad.

    And I realized, too, that it’s mutual. If me being with someone makes them feel happy (not that I “do” it, but that they are simply happy because I am me), then the same would have to go from them to me. It’s easy enough to grasp at that. But all the more challenging to really ALLOW it. As in, allow it to happen without trying to control the outcome.

    That feels scary, unknown, and with so many undefined variables. It’s hard for me to really understand what that would really mean or be or feel like. But what scared me the most is that, as much of a challenge as it is to be vulnerable in a relationship with one person, taking that relationship to a public level means that you have to be vulnerable with EVERYONE. Not in the same way. Just that, by them knowing that you have this intimate relationship, it automatically clues them in to your vulnerable state. It feels scary to me.

    That’s why, I think, I am reluctant to “go public” with my intimate relationships. But that really is the next step. Once you find your footing in vulnerability one on one, you both decide to be vulnerable with EVERYONE by admitting your feelings publicly. This is why I think love is so powerful and brave. To keep is secret is not powerful or brave, to me. That’s easy. It’s safe. Only you two have to know. To tell the world all about you and to day that you have love and mean it – wow. Just wow. That’s amazing.

    I’m getting idealistic, here, and probably way ahead of myself. I am just mentally paving the way for myself, I think. Or at least breaking ground on construction ; )

    See you all over on the new thread! 🙂

  395.  #395Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Whew, okay. So the whole “I don’t want to shush my daughter” conversation went just amazing, lol.

    He said, “No, I just meant her tromping around and stomping up the stairs. Not you guys playing in the morning to wake her up.”

    And then a little later he said, “You don’t need to be scared to talk to me about things. Talking calmly I don’t mind.”

    I had cooked a turkey. I said, “I guess I’ll need to go look up how to carve a turkey. I never have before.” He got out a knife and showed me how to carve the turkey, standing very close while I watched him. I retreated a little bit from him and leaned away, trying to be like water flowing with his movements. I’m still so anxious and learning.

    He avoided looking at me much at dinnertime. Afterwards, he brought out daughter out to draw at the diningroom counter. I’m not sure if that was to avoid the office (where she and I now pretty much reside/ spend most of our time) or if it was to be near while I cleaned, but it was different from usual.

    Then he said something that reminded me of a couple weeks ago right after the breakup when he told me that I had a hole in my pants. I said, “Oh yeah, speaking of pants, I think I have a hole in these, too.”

    He said, “yeah, I know, I didn’t want to say. I wasn’t sure how you’d take it.” So I answered, “because I’d know you were checking my butt out?” He grinned and made kind of a “yeah, exactly” gesture and said, “I didn’t know you how’d feel about that.”

    It felt like flirting and I was grinning and blushing my head off. I couldn’t bring myself to say it, so I said that I figured my face was confessing my feelings about it. He asked which, the smile, the blush, or both? I said “both”.

    Then he went back to coloring with K, and I said I was feeling nervous, jittery, and excited and that I was going in the other room. He said, “What?” but I just couldn’t stay in the room. I was getting way too overwhelmed… so I ran away and now I can barely breathe, lol.

    Oh god help me, I’m a screwed up mess!

  396.  #396Cupcake on December 11, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Indigo 360

    Thanks for the shout out and understanding. It is very hard for me to stop seeing the lovable qualities in men when we break up, and it feels confusing for me. I struggle with diminishing the respect I feel, and attraction for– and of course attachment TO- people just because the circumstances change.

    I realized today that three of my guy friends, who are awesome, wonderful friends, are guys who at one point or another in my past, I would have posted messages on this board about. One was a CD who dumped me out of the blue. One was a boyfriend who kept cheating on me. And the other was an imaginary relationship that Rori practically reached through the phone to shake me about numerous times.

    All are fantastic, loving, supportive friends. The one who used to cheat on me– One time my dog ran away and was missing for several days. I was heartsick. He told his wife (also a friend of mine now) and she agreed with him that he should drive three hours to come and help me look for the dog.

    So my point is– I know there’s a period of years, in all these cases, before these boys I cried over became the men who are my friends.

    But I always feel myself struggling to withdraw feelings from men when the thing I valued in them wasn’t what they were doing for me, but rather what they were being like in the world.

    And maybe that’s what I should really pay attention to.

    I used to take workshops with Laura Day, the psychic. And once she gave an assignment to the group to spend the week “seeking to be of service to each other.” Then she turned and pointed at me and said, “Cupcake, this does NOT apply to you. Your homework is to STOP being of service, and instead BE SELFISH.”

    I’m learning. And I feel aware that I’m taking up a lot of space on the board. So I hope you understand, sisters, that it’s because I want to learn how to take up more space in my own life. As we all are aiming to do.


  397.  #397Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    @Liquid Light oh Yes! I know it is a red flag! I just didn’t expose it any earlier on the blog…and when he said it, I wish I’d had the wherewithal to say, I feel weird about what you just said, it put me off. But I didn’t … b/c he was saying to me, I’m fearful of being rejected b/c of this and I’m Fearful of coming up short with you…

    I haven’t paid for one thing so far… and I’m not going to…b/c I don’t want to set the tone with that to continue….. and it might just end things… I don’t know…

    I do know that with “M” he was blatantly outward about the fact that he notices that I don’t pay for things, or cook dinner for him etc.. Which I did, just not much.. and he had loads of money ( so he said) and again, I didn’t pay for the dates etc… and he complained, and I just let him… and he was the opposite stingy and at least “S” is giving even when he can’t do much…

    It’ makes me sad, and also makes me feel like leaning back more…

    Thanks for your post… <3


  398.  #398Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    and I’m so happy to hear about “C”… enjoy!!! <3


  399.  #399Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    Thanks Lisa, so much 🙂

    My birthday’s on Saturday, but I had a “mini” birthday with my family last night because they’re going away for the weekend. It made me feel really special. I have a fun weekend planned!

    As for “S”, I think this could be an excellent opportunity to witness his problem-solving skills in motion, give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he handles the money issue…


  400.  #400Shannon on December 13, 2013 at 3:17 am

    I’m sorry I haven’t read through everything lately. I hope everyone is well (and vulnerable, and our beautiful Siren selves!).

    Last night we had a really bad episode with our daughter. I am so afraid that I’ll make a mistake that kills her, and I was badly triggered by her not doing something for her condition that is mandatory and could end in disaster.

    I was in SO much pain and fear that afterward (and he was amazing with her!), when he asked me how I was, I just said, “I guess that’s relative”, because I was too far into my pain to even remember to speak my feelings. At that moment, I was hurting too much to even care if we got back together.

    He came over and held me so tight and close again, stroking my hair. When I finally calmed down a little, he said that we were “struggling over different things” because he has complete faith in my ability to care for our daughter… instead, he is feeling confused. He said he’s slow to comfort me when I am sad because it makes him feel confused… then added that it doesn’t make it any better when I do my hair and put on makeup! 😀 Or when I joke that he can check out my butt any time he wants (he told me that there was a hole in my jeans and there was– on the seam on my butt pocket, lol… he didn’t want to say anything because [we’re broken up]… I jokingly told him I like knowing he’s still checking out my butt and he can check it out any time he wants).

    After a few minutes, I said that my back was hurting a little, but it felt too good to be held to let go. He said he would hold me like that until I was ready to let go.

    I jokingly (and not so jokingly) said, “It’s going to be a long night for you, then, because this feels really good!” He jokingly said, “Well, I might want to sit down, then.”

    A while later my back really was hurting SO bad, so I said, “I would feel better if we sat down, too.” He told me he would go sit down wherever I wanted. We ended up cuddled up on the sofa, and he just held me and stroked my hair for… I don’t even know how long. It was a long time.

    I had JUST listened to the first two Reconnect CDs. So I didn’t say anything to his “I feel confused” because I only got so far as “don’t steer the boat” and “don’t talk”… so I just didn’t talk. :p

    It was AMAZING. And it truly did feel great, and hopeful, and he was SO very tender.

    Thank you again, Rori. I have hope for this thing. He’s a stubborn one, but this definitely seems to be moving the right direction, and that’s more than I thought POSSIBLE just a couple weeks ago!!

  401.  #401Cris on December 13, 2013 at 6:07 am

    @Shannon I think you are doing great. I feel I am in a very similar path to yours. My husband never said he doesn’t love me but I want to recover some affection. And I am reinventing myself and trying to change my masculine energy into femenine and swap it with him. And I use also the same tools (not talking too much, not deciding, being open and grateful) and I see progress. Not huge, but everyday a bit. One more hug, one more smile, one longer kiss… I don’t make any plan and am relaxed… so he plans to go to the theater, to have coffee in my favorite bar etc…by his own. I am happy and ready to be surprised.
    Thanks to Rori and Dominique.
    And I think you will get him back Shannon, you are doing fine 🙂

  402.  #402Dominique on December 13, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Shannon – This sounds wonderful. It seems as though you may have turned a corner with him. xxoo

  403.  #403Dominique on December 13, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Cris – 🙂 Small changes are actually huge. So yay you!!!

    Love to you.


  404.  #404Cris on December 13, 2013 at 8:53 am

    thank you Dominique!

  405.  #405Mandy on December 13, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Ah…I had to come back to the blog, I’m having lots of trouble and I feel like crying, I feel so helpless sometimes.

    I’m obsessing…looping…caring about what’s going on with him again…

    Trying to stay positive is hard when negative feelings keep bubbling up.

    Anger, jealousy, sadness, resentment….I also feel like a brat, because he’s so good to me otherwise.

    I wrote him a letter on November 8 because I was feeling the same thing I feel right now as I write, but I never gave it to him:

    It says:

    “When we see a movie together, and there’s a sex scene in it, I resent it because I feel neglected, since we haven’t had it in four months. Then I say something to you, then you feel weird, and close down more. The very fact I feel this way kills the intimacy, and the respectful treatment sort of goes out the door for both of us. The only thing holding things together at that point is our commitment to one another.

    I know you just want to be treated well. So do I. I feel angry and as though I’m over-functioning and it feels incredibly yucky… It’s NOT YOUR FAULT I feel this way, I repeat, not your fault…
    I just don’t know how much longer I can stand feeling this way. I feel like my resentment, negativity and anger is wrecking the intimacy and relationship which I cherish and want so much, and I want to be here with you.

    I love you. I don’t want to go anywhere and I’m feeling so incredibly angry and sad I can’t see a movie with sex in it with you and not feel upset about it the next day, pining for what I saw in the scene. I keep trying to be okay with it again and again but it doesn’t seem to work. I can’t hardly function properly with this on my mind and heart, and I feel so angry and sad I want to scream.”

    Very interesting, every word I wrote resonates with me today, I feel the same way a month later as I did when I wrote it. After seeing a movie like what I described with him.

    Dominique told me I should let go of this feeling, focus on what he’s doing right. I’m trying and trying to let go but then I find myself looping just like this.

    Can anyone help me get on the right track and forget about the sex I want with him so badly?
    I feel way out of touch today. He’s asleep, so I have an opportunity to do something for myself.

    Any suggestions? God I feel so incredibly angry and confused. I haven’t said a word to him since I’ve gotten the notion that talking about negative stuff and bad feelings isn’t the way to go, so what do I do with them? It feels contradictory; Rori said we need to be authentic and honest, how can I do that when I feel so bad, and still be positive, still tell him what feels good? It feels impossible..and I really just wish I could cry it out but the tears won’t come…this feels absolutely, positively horrible….

  406.  #406Mandy on December 13, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    PS –

    I’m feeling, in my chair (Rock) and I have to say It does feel good to feel…it does feel good to get in touch with my sadness deep inside, and own it…I feel like a real person with real problems and real concerns…as opposed to someone trying to get something from someone..I guess that’s good…but I feel less anger when I get down to it and more sadness…

    I feel authentic when I get in touch with my inner Little Girl. I remember I would do something when I was not feeling well, like ask my dad in a very sweet yet upset manner if I could go for a walk outside and it just MELTED his heart. That’s what happens to my man when I get in touch with her…he melts.

    He goes awwwwww and squeezes me, and oh how I love those squeezes.

    It might be a thing of I am used to having a man who shows his love by having lots of sex with me and J might not show it that way, so I have to recognize and remember how he DOES show it…

  407.  #407Liquid Light on December 13, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    This seems like the lack of sex in your relationship is a very important issue to you, Mandy, as it would be for probably 99% of women. So that’s perfectly normal IMHO. He’s knows its important to you, if you deny that and sweep it under carpet, its telling him that your needs aren’t important. It’s making his needs more important than yours and, well, we all know by now (having read RR) that just diminishes his desire for you. The question is why are staying in a sexless relationship when it is a very important part of the relationship to you? That’s the real question. And once he gets that you are willing to move on because your needs are just as important, I bet his sex drive will miraculously come back. Just my 2 cents. Perfectly OK to take these words with a grain of salt BTW 😉

  408.  #408Shannon on December 13, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    I don’t have much time right now. But I wanted to say ‘Thank you’ to Dominque, and I wanted to speak to Mandy.

    Mandy, Rori recommends that we write down our “The Talk” and memorize it (or even read it).

    I suggest that you don’t keep it bottled up. I don’t feel that the biggest breakthroughs come from happy giddy behavior when you’re feeling resentful. In fact, I think that resentment is growing like a balloon being blown up right now.

    I might write my speech thus, in your case:

    “When we watched [that movie] the other day, I felt very resentful during the sex scene. I feel neglected. I don’t want to have a relationship where I feel neglected because I am not having sex with the man I’m in a relationship with. I want to feel good, I want to feel wanted and adored. I want the bonding of sexual intimacy. I don’t want a relationship where every time there’s a sex scene on TV, I feel resentful. What do you think?”

    Remembering to make it about I FEEL and about the RELATIONSHIP. Make it about I WANT and I DON’T WANT, because I WANT and DON’T WANT are your boundaries! You do NOT want a sexless relationship. So say so.

    These issues are really tough. Hang in there!

    Anyway, there are more I want to reply to, but I am going out dancing tonight and will be home very late. Hopefully I will be able to reply to some tomorrow. 🙂

  409.  #409Mandy on December 13, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Thanks Shannon and Liquid Light

    I do want to say a nasty voice appears in my head when I’m triggered like with a sex scene in a movie, saying “you are SO not a goddess like she is, look at her, she’s getting sex and you’re not, you suck!”

    So…I’m going to put a rubber band on my wrist and snap it every time I notice the voice.

    I have been searching deeply with my feelings sitting and just feeling…and it’s deep. It feels just as bad as being cheated on to me. I yearn to connect with him that deeply, and I’m trying to see if I can feel out what else might make me feel deeply connected with him, special, not just a security blanket, to him, or a mom or sister or something. Maybe I’m looking to the wrong thing to connect with him in that way.

    more later…

  410.  #410Dominique on December 13, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Mandy – As we talked about, normally a heat-to-heart would be in order, yet this has been talked about and talked about already. Remember we discussed how making him wrong all the time will not serve you.

    I do agree though that continuing to stay in a sexless relationship is hot serving you either.

    When you’re ready, let me know.

    In the meantime, taking care of your upset insides as you are is wonderful. Keep it up.


  411.  #411Mandy on December 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm


    Going to let my squeeky awkard voice out here…lol…here I go…

    I do remember that negativity is not the way to go with him… So I feel good I chose not to go with that, but rather chose to try talking it out here on the blog, and it really did help me today 🙂 So there’s one of my options 🙂

    I really felt better after talking it out here, and even more so after I dug and got much deeper than I have gotten in a very long time inside myself, and felt it for a very long time, felt my true feelings deep down inside.

    I feel very content this evening, much different than earlier, because I did my Siren riffing very deeply. I do feel like I did take care of my upset insides and I’m glad for it. I feel so much better, noticed the twilight of the evening sky and the moon, and how beautiful a winterish night it is, and feel very rested and content.

    J and I are going to watch movies and have shrimp cocktail together now, maybe I can see about finding a good feeling and choosing it, he did come and sit by me earlier when I was content with him but silent, something he never does and I love when he does it, it was a pleasant and sweet little surprise 🙂 And I told him so 🙂

    Thanks again Dominique, Liquid Lightning, Shannon, and the rest of the lovely ladies…as always your comments mean a lot to me and I appreciate them very much.

    Love to the Sirens <3

  412.  #412Shannon on December 13, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    Well, I think I’m done. Stick a fork in me done.

    He went and spent the weekend with his mother. She pretty much told him to tell me to get a job or get lost. Of course, he was the one that told me to quit my job when our daughter got sick, now suddenly he’s get a job or go away at me.

    I listened. I finally said I didn’t want to say anything else because I was too angry.

    The problem is that I’m an unskilled person. He bought this house that I didn’t want, that we couldn’t afford, because his mother liked the resale value on it. Now our financial issues are all MY fault. No doubt I am very triggered… I am SO tired of everything being my fault–whether it is or not.

    I’m a writer. He doesn’t want me to give up “a” career… he just wants me to give up the career I actually want. I’ll never make enough money to satisfy him. I never could, I never will.

    I give up. I guess it’s time for me to just move out and get that job and take him to court for child support. I still won’t be married to him, but at least I’ll be good enough for someone… even if that’s only me.

  413.  #413Shannon on December 13, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    I feel like stomping up there and telling him that I’m fine with us being done. Because I don’t want to be with a guy who runs to mommy to gossip about what a deadbeat piece of shit I am.

    I feel incensed. 🙁

  414.  #414Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 3:32 am


    When I was with D we went through a patch where we didn’t have sex for about 3 weeks. And there were two things I did, which did get things back on track and we had regular sex after that.

    The first was I told him “I feel undesired.” That made his eyes go big and he was incredulous and a bit angry, but it did the trick.

    Another thing I did was that, when I was with him, instead of directing all my longing energy at him, I sunk it down into myself. Instead of touching him, I would touch myself, stroke myself, imagine myself as Cleopatra, really get into what a sexy goddess I was. It did actually draw him in.

    I can’t help thinking you need to get into a routine of having sex regularly, not let such long periods of time pass without having it. Some couples even schedule it.

    I feel for you. I could never cope in a sexless relationship.

  415.  #415Mandy on December 14, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Thank you Indigo.

    I do definitely need to try the imagery (I might imagine I was Marilyn Monroe, which makes me giggle when I think about it). I am very good at that…I do know that for a fact, I’ve literally been doing the imagery thing since I was a child, in a way. I will try it tonight and give you an update!


  416.  #416Femininewoman on December 16, 2013 at 7:30 am


    That just sucks!!!

  417.  #417gjenta on January 27, 2014 at 11:57 pm

    Hello my name is Argjenta. I;m international student in California and i met a guy throgh facebook. His name is Chris and i was very happy to met him i dont know why. we started talking through phone but we never skyped. we had been talking 4months on phone and all we talk is about us , how was our day and he wants me to go and visit him in Texas , this summer and i think i want to go and meet him . i am so curious to know how the person that i spend my hours in phone looks like. he says that when i will go to texas we wont have sex until we get married, and he also asked me for ring size??? im like wow this is going to be so serious.i like him a lot we talk on fb phone a lot and i think he’s mature works hard and he wants to help me with everything he can. i do like him a lot and i think i had found perfect guy even though he knows i am forgeign student here just got here but we are sooo far. i live in CA HE LIVES IN TEXAS. so i want to know what’s ur advice for this relationship going so far?? i want to know how i should act when i will go and meet him and what i should talk usually on phone with him?? thanks a lot .

  418.  #418Dominique on February 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    gjenta – Until you meet this man in person and spend some time with him, this is not a relationship. This is at the moment a lovely fantasy. And please don’t go to him. If he wants to proceed, let him come to you.


  419.  #419Deborah Tews on February 9, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Dear Rori,

    My name is ctygirl1307, and I am in a very, very bad situation & need help.

    I’ve been married for 13 1/2 years. About a year into our marriage, I overheard a conversation between my husband & my terminally ill father. My husband was asking my dad “what should I do if she gets out of control?” but what I heard is “she’s out of control”. I instantly felt like a kid again, who needed to be controlled by her mom…once again. My mom controlled my life, from what to wear to buying my love with materialistic things. I tried to talk to him about it, but I got upset & so did he. It really hurt me that he got upset back at me, as we had had a “magical” beginning-we connected, we had fun together, we started living together the 3rd day we knew each other, & we didn’t have to work at the relationship. It came naturally, & everything fell into place…until that day.
    I didn’t think he wanted me around, so I stayed away from him as much as possible. I hung out with a single girlfriend here & there, but ended up hanging out with my ex-fiance. We gave in to temptation 2 times, but we had contact on & off for about 9 1/2 years. I started counseling, & I started telling him about what I did & other details about the previous 9 1/2 years. I was hurting, had a son 17 months after our daughter was born, my dad passed away when my son was 2 months old and we’d moved closer to my parents a year before his passing. My dad’s death really pushed me over the edge even more. I chose to block out most of those years, & my husband is mad & angry that I can’t remember a lot of details, & thinks I’m lying to him about them. I have lied to him about certain things since 2010 ’cause he’s already angry, & I didn’t want to make him more angry.
    I’ve had a difficult time trying to reconnect & communicate with him because for about 2 1/2 years, I’ve felt like a puppy dog with its head between its tail every time I was around my husband. He kept telling me that he wanted me to get over my guilt & shame, and be the person I was when we first met-open, honest & free around him. I’ve really struggled with that “Nasty” voice saying “You’re not good enough”, “You don’t deserve him or to be loved by him”, “He wants you to cry to show him you’re sorry” when he really wanted me to be happy & laugh & joke with him & around him.
    He’s been abusing drugs on & off for most of our marriage, and got caught.
    He gave me 1 year, from 12-12-12, to 12-12-13, to become my old self. He also informed me on 12-12-12 that he’d filed for divorce but I asked him to give me more time to change. The day I was able to be my old self around him (12-06-13), he moved out. He moved in with a married male friend of his for two days, then moved in with a female friend he dated in high school. They are really close, & have gone back to the town we moved from, twice together.
    He’s made it clear that he doesn’t want ANYTHING to do with me, then he went to jail on 01-09-14. I wrote him a letter saying that I won’t send money for a phone acct, I won’t write him letters or send him money for his books IF HE DIDN’T want me to. He wrote me a letter a few days ago, & said that he knew I wouldn’t be there for him, just like I hadn’t been over the last 13 years. I feel used, I feel that he is blaming me for his choice of pushing me away, and feel like he’ll move back in to her place when he gets out.
    I realize now that I screwed up BAD, and I want to make amends & save the marriage. I started marriage counseling a couple weeks ago, and am contesting the divorce.
    I REALLY want him back, but he’s not sure if I have changed & is not ready to trust me yet.
    How or what can I do to save my marriage? I love him now more than I ever did before.

  420.  #420Rori Raye on February 9, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    Deborah – I don’t know what the counselor is telling you….and, in my world, it’s impossible to have any kind of relationship with a man who is “abusing drugs.” Or – abusing ANYTHING. Please get my ebook and then my Complete Collection and start with the ebook FIRST. Circular Date. We’ll help you with all of this here. Love, Rori