Put Your Love Badge On!

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locketI absolutely love this comment, and just wanted to make sure everyone saw it:

“…just sent my power speech via message after a couple of attempts to tee up a time to talk face to face failed.

Basically said how I felt, what I wanted in a relationship, that he’s entitled to take as long as he wants to figure his things out but that I’d be putting my online dating profile back up and meeting other people.

I only did this because when we last met things were open ended and I said I’d take my profile down because I thought we were going to work things out.

I honestly felt like throwing up after sending it to him though, which really showed me how difficult it still is for me to put me first. But I was very honest with everything, didn’t accuse him of anything, and felt good writing it but just felt so scared of actually DOING it.

I feel sometimes like I need a little marker or badge like Alcoholics Anonymous when I do something like this because it is such a huge achievement. Or for each day I go NOT texting/making contact. That’s how difficult I find it (but I’m getting there!!)

Now I’m slowly starting to feel relieved and free. I LOVE this new way of being in touch with my feelings, it’s such a completely different way to deal with things and it feels so good. I don’t have to be scared of my feelings anymore!!!

From Rori:

I’m putting my own badge on and shining it up every time I tell the truth, every time I go outside my comfort zone, every time I let go and feel what I feel, every time I look at the bigger picture instead of what I can only see with my eyes and hear with my ears, every time I go with love instead of with fear, every time I can feel my heart swell up, every time I let go instead of resist….

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 7:44 am

    I’ve got mine

  2.  #2LoveAlways on April 22, 2013 at 7:55 am

    I love it! Got my badge on too! Me first!

  3.  #3LoveAlways on April 22, 2013 at 7:57 am

    And the power speech DOES work. Either he leans forward or you know it is time to change up your cd rotation!

  4.  #4LoveAlways on April 22, 2013 at 7:59 am

    I love Rori’s response. I feel it like warm sunshine on my face

  5.  #5Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 8:08 am

    We should definitely cheer each other on for our successes, however small! It is extremely difficult to change old habits, and learn to do nothing except be open, lean back, express feeling messages and ask for what we want. But with the support of each other, the sirens on this network, we can do it!

    Let’s continue to share our experiences in applying Rori’s tools and how they are working for us…even the tiniest of baby steps deserve recognition and a big YAY!!!


  6.  #6Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 8:15 am

    “It is extremely difficult to change old habits”

    Wow!! What we focus on grows.

  7.  #7Mercedes on April 22, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Good morning ladies! Hope you had an amazing weekend! For my part…it was cold…really cold…much worse than I thought (as in snowing and raining and wind blowing…it was bad!!!). I wasn’t able to find a coat in the airport so I did end up using my blanket the entire time (wrapped around me like a long shawl). Nobody seemed to care. lol We still had a great time regardless of my inability to plan. 🙂

    The wedding was beautiful. The bride and groom looked so happy and in love. I truly wish them the very best life has to offer. I took lots of fun pictures for them and hope to edit this week so they can have them very soon. I know how much they are looking forward to it so this is something I absolutely cannot procrastinate over!

    I need to go back and catch up on the last thread. I was scanning though and saw the old posts between Terrance and I and some other people who don’t post here anymore. That was kind of cool to see!

    Hope all is well!

    Much Love,

  8.  #8Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Anna, You are doing great! Just being receptive to him is all you need to be. Shyness doesn’t push men away. Why not say “I feel shy” next time he speaks to you?

    Hana, I used to be in the same boat as you…remeniscing over an ex and the good times, event when a great guy was standing right in front of me! http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk helped alot. As did the book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. It explained how we lock onto a fantasy and why its so hard to let go. It is because the fantasy feels better than the fear of getting vulnerable in a real relationship, i.e. expressing our feelings. When you finally accept your mistakes (which are ok, we all learn from our past mistakes), and that the ex wasn’t “available” for a REAL relationship they way you want one, and that you have differences in what you want out of life and don’t share the same VALUES (i.e. to have and be in a loving, committed, caring, trusting, mutually fulfilling, HEALTHY relationship), you will start to detatch from him. I kept repeating to myself…he (the ex) was a fantasy. I made a mistake. We didn’t share the same values. We want different things out of life. Then, I noticed something changed in me. Its like my brain woke up from the addiction and realized I didn’t want HIM anymore. I realized I really wanted a GOOD man with the same VALUES as me.

    Julie & Purple, I feel for both of you. You are both compassionate, loving, wonderful women. However, I sense that you are neglecting yourselves. You are way too focused on caring for others and have forgotten how to care for yourselves. Take some time to nurture yourself…and look after your own life, your own job, interests, hobbies, girl friends and your family. And please don’t give up on speaking in feeling messages, to everyone you meet. Baby steps…But remember, the feeling messages will not change a toxic man into a great guy. He is who he is and you have to learn to accept that. Use the tools to move forward with new people and a brighter, happier new life will unfold. You’ll see.

    Tereana, Awesome girl! You’re on the right track! Keep using feeling messages, but don’t text him. Wait for him to call or see you in person. Then express how you feel. There is no need to respond to a text unless he expressly asks you to in trying to reach you…even then, he will call if he really wants to. You could be busy doing other things and you don’t need to appear like you are waiting by the phone for him to contact you.

    Linda G, competing in male sports is great! I do it too! But I’ve learned to soften my communications with men. Instead of being tough and hard, I’ve learned to communicate how I feel, e.g. how my body is feeling, how the weather or the event makes me feel, etc. It doesn’t make me any less of an athlete. And you don’t need to worry about the other women…they may get the men’s initial attention, but it won’t last. You are WAY more superior by being a GODDESS and attracting men using Rori’s tools. The GOOD men. Let the competitive b**ch chase after and snag the toxic ones… GOOD masculine men are attracted to feminine women (even in sports). They don’t want to be in a relationship with another man…that would just be a buddy. (They’ll have sex with those women though). Don’t feel threatened. Keep the long term picture of what you want – a healthy, mutually fulfilling, caring, trusting, relationship, in mind. Keep leaning back and using feeling messages, and see which REAL man comes forward!! Its fun!


  9.  #9prplpsn28 on April 22, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Bleh! Just not feeling it right now. I’m done for now. I feel I have been taking care of myself. I ALWAYS make plans for MYSELF with MY friends. And if H happens to be available and wants to join us he does. And I have always 99.9% of the time waited for him to initiate contact. And tho I am a rather shy person I really like contact with new people, talking and getting to know them. And I have “flirted” in recent moments. I just don’t know at this point.

  10.  #10prplpsn28 on April 22, 2013 at 9:49 am

    I’m just not understanding the “feeling messages” either.

  11.  #11Sunflower on April 22, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I am coping with loss of my father from just a month ago. He lived a long and a good life and so at some level it is comforting. but to loose a parent feels like an irreplaceable loss, I have been feeling sad and vulnerable- the feeling comes and goes as I ease back into moving with the flow of life

    But I find it difficult to share my feeling of loss with new men I am CDing. I tend to avoid talking about it.

    Sometimes because the feeling of sadness is just not there in that moment. But mostly I feel I avoid sharing sad thoughts with men I have recently met. I don’t seem to know how to share grief in early dating stages. Maybe deep down I fear it will come across as too overwhelming and push men away- particularly when they don’t know me.

  12.  #12smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:05 am

    I’m going to put mine on everytime I choose love instead of fear, 🙂

  13.  #13Emerson on April 22, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Yes what we focus on grows fw.

    Good point.

    I’ve been focusing on my beauty and I feel I look better every day. Sounds vain but it’s not its just me wanting to love me lol.

    I’m working on the inside too. I’m focusing on my diverse interests and also how easily I make friends and I’ve been making new friends as a result.

    I intend to find something good about the way I relate to men to focus in because its a scarier concept for me…let me shift thaf…i can do this its natural…. It’s ok I DO know how to relate to men…. Just been less and less able to relate to toxic men lol…

  14.  #14smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:08 am


  15.  #15smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:10 am


    From previous thread…

    This helps, thank you, yes it’s good to acknowledge that time should do it’s thing 🙂 I choose love instead of fear.

  16.  #16smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Loving my ‘go get it’ attitude to love and life right now!!! X

  17.  #17Sunflower on April 22, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Thankyou smile for that warm hug. I felt it..:)

  18.  #18Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 10:24 am

    (((((((((((SunFlower)))))))) I feel so grateful and thankful to see your name. It is a sad time I know but have to tell you, you just put some bright shiny sunshine in my day.

  19.  #19Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 10:28 am


    Sorry to hear about the loss of your father. You don’t have to express all your feelings to everyone you meet. There are some people we are closer to, and others we hardly know, and we don’t need to let everyone in. Take your time in CD’ing and just focus on the feelings in the moment (e.g. how your immediate surroundings make you feel). I’m sure you can find some good feeling emotions if you look for them, like looking at a pretty view or a nice colour, or something that soothes you. If you are grieving, you may need to take some time off from dating to grieve and feel those feelings on your own. You don’t want to dump them on some poor guy who isn’t a therapist…it is too much to handle on a first date. When you start to feel better, then get back into the circuit.


  20.  #20Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 10:30 am


    You mention you don’t understand feeling messages…I know its hard at first, but its not really a “thinking” thing. Its just listening to what your body tells you. Its an emotion. And sometimes, as happens after tragic loss, we go numb…and we just don’t feel anything. Its a protection mechanism. Our bodies allow us to feel only as much as we can handle at any one point in time. If the pain is really bad, we shut down. Or if we have ignored our own feelings for a long time, as I did during my long marriage to my ex, its very hard to get back into feeling and expressing them. Don’t feel discouraged. Its natural.

    The key is to slowly start to focus on how you feel again. After having been through a difficult divorce, I couldn’t feel a thing. I didn’t know either how to express a feeling. All I knew was I wanted to feel again. To feel alive.

    I started by looking at what was around me, the table, the chair, my clothes, and just touching them. How does it feel? Soft? Hard? Prickly? Comfy? After a few days of practicing just feeling what was external to me, I went deeper into my own feelings. I simply turned my awareness to my emotional state. At first I felt numb. Then something came up that made me feel angry. Then sad. Then I noticed a twinge in my tummy and I felt hungry. Soon a bird flew to my window, and I felt happy just looking at it…and so on. Before you can communicate in feeling messages, you have to learn to feel again. Practice feeling, not thinking. What are you feeling now?


  21.  #21Sunflower on April 22, 2013 at 10:31 am

    What a beautiful thing to say Femininewoman. You are lovely and you just made me smile big time.

  22.  #22smile on April 22, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Sirens… What does this mean?
    It’s from my horoscope but I don’t understand what it’s saying? Can anyone re word it for me.

    Select your new relationship future well. Or that conflict!

  23.  #23Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Don’t be afraid of your feelings. If you have trouble feeling, take some time to be on your own, in private where you feel safe, to FEEL. Feel the sadness and cry. Feel the pain and the hurt. Feel the fear. Feel the anger and rage and pound a pillow and scream. Let out as much as you feel comfortable letting out. Don’t stuff it in as you are only hurting yourself by bottling up all that energy. TRUST yourself that you are ok with feeling. Even the most difficult, uncomfortable feelings. You have to learn to just feel them. To sit with them. Even if it feels very unpleasant. You are safe.

    Then hug yourself and tell your little girl that everything will be alright. You have nothing to fear.

    Once the energy has been released, and those bad feelings acknowledged and felt, you will feel better. It may take more than one episode of feeling to do this, but eventually you will notice the difficult, uncomfortable feelings dissipate and you start to feel more relaxed and calm. That is a sign that your body is healing. Like any wound or illness, the pain (e.g. from inflammation) is the body’s way of repairing itself. It worked for me…try it. You can handle it.


  24.  #24Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 11:05 am

    I love this idea, I feel like I should carry it always

  25.  #25Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 11:09 am


    You’re doing great! Feeling good about yourself and your appearance is not vain. Its natural and its healthy. Its good self-care. If you feed yourself good healthy food, drink plenty of water, get some exercise and good sleep, you will naturally look more and more beautiful. Appreciate that. The universe made you beautiful. We are all born beautiful. Babies are beautiful!! We still are beautiful in our 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond! We shouldn’t hide our light under a bushel. And anyone who wants you to feel guilty or is jealous about focusing on your beauty, is toxic.

    The toxic men will disappear from your life too, once you stop doing stuff for them. The void will make way for good healthy providing men who care about you, who want you to feel good about yourself, to enter your world.

    Just keep on feeling your way through every interaction. And never stop loving yourself! You’re amazing!


  26.  #26Emerson on April 22, 2013 at 11:10 am

    I feel so scared sometimes of doing something “wrong” with a man in my old habits of over functioning … I really have to watch myself… I’m a “do-er” as someone told me once… And if a guy is not rowing or not problem solving I have a tendecy to jump in…
    I can shift this easily just by being aware.

  27.  #27Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 11:20 am

    @Kristine 23

    Thanks for your post. I’ve recently gone through a breakup and initially I think I was numb as you mention. What Imostly felt was relief since now I had time to pursue all of my other interests full-on. But then all of the feelings of loss and sadness started flooding over me, and they just aren’t going away. I’m feeling sad and miserable most of the time but still the feelings don’t seem to reside. I hate feeling this way. Do I just keep feeling these things or when/how do you move on? It seems like if you wallow in the feelings too much, it gets worse and then i end up feeling even more awful. Ughh. Any thoughts?

  28.  #28Elsie on April 22, 2013 at 11:30 am

    I read this and just felt STUNNED. I just want to repost it here on this thread – it is from Rori – and wow, its AMAZIG….

    What IS a perfect man, anyway?

    If you believe you’ve ever had one, or have one in your mind, take out a piece of paper and write down the “qualities” you think made him “perfect” or WILL make him “perfect.”

    Now take a look at your list. Maybe you’ve written down things like “attractive (or even handsome), financially secure, sensitive, likes animals, generous…”

    Well, my Rules are this (actually – it’s just one Rule to start): It doesn’t matter what you’ve written on the list, or how good he looks on paper, or even how good he looks in real life. His qualities DON’T MATTER.

    The only thing that matters is this entry on your list: “When I’m with him, and even when I’m NOT with him – I feel loved, cared for, happy and secure. “ That’s it.

    Who he is and How he is mean nothing. How you FEEL with a man is ALL that counts. And I don’t mean how you feel about HIM. I don’t mean how much YOU love HIM, or how excited you feel, or how much “chemistry” there is, or how much “fun” you have together, or how great sex is, or how much you have “in common.” None of that means ANYTHING. We’re often devastatingly attracted to men who are emotionally unavailable or not mature enough to truly be in a committed, real relationship, and then end up literally devastated.

    The only thing that means anything is how you feel about YOURSELF in his presence.

    So take out your piece of paper and turn it over. Now write a list of how you want to FEEL about YOURSELF in your “perfect” RELATIONSHIP! (Remember – this is about the Relationship, not about the man.) Let me know how it feels to look at relationship this way, and we’ll talk more and more about how all this works.

  29.  #29Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 11:32 am


    Awareness is the first step. Congratulations!! YAY for you! As an overachieving, professional, A-type personality, it took me a few years to get over DOING and learn to JUST BE with men…

    Here I’ve been working in a male dominated world for years and years, DOING and MAKING stuff happen, and now I have to switch hats when I leave the office and learn to be a GIRL again??? Wow, it was tough. But if I could do it, you can do it too.

    Its a practice. You have to force yourself to sit on your hands…literally, sometimes. And suddenly, MR RIGHT shows up…and it all works because HE is doing the DOING. Its a lot harder when you are meeting GIRLIE men who don’t DO anything and just wait for you to DO something (like text them or ask them out). You want to SHAKE them!! But when the REAL MASCULINE guy shows up, you’ll realize how easy it really is. He’s in pursuit and he sticks to you like a barnacle!! Kind of scary when it first happens but I feel giddy just thinking about it!

    You cannot DO anything wrong if you DON’T DO ANYTHING. All you “do” is “feel” your feelings in the moment and speak about them. And ask for what you want, or say NO to what you don’t want. That’s it. Very simple. But hard habit to break if you’ve been the doer all your life.

    It takes a leap of faith to TRUST yourself and Rori’s tools. But I can speak from experience that it works!! It doesn’t happen overnight. Be patient. Feel the fear and keep expressing how you feel. This board is really good for that!


  30.  #30Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Liquid Light,

    Grieving is good, but yes wallowing for a long period in them is not. However, if you are alternating between feeling good and happy and then sad, you are not wallowing. Its just the healing process bubbling up slowly. Let it take its course. You’ll notice the sad feelings only last so long. Then they dissipate. They may come back again. If you don’t suppress them and let them bubble, they will come back less and less and eventually disappear.

    However, if you are CONSTANTLY feeling sad and miserable, like for weeks on end, you may want to speak to a doctor or naturopath. Depression could sink in and there are remedies to get you back up on your feet…so you know what happy feels like again. Do you still know what happy feels like? Or are you totally numb or sad?

    I found drinking lots of water (8-10 glasses/day) and exercising really made a difference in my mood. As well as eating a balanced diet, with protein, veggies and fruit, without heavy carbs or alchohol (which is a depressant) and cutting out all sugar or sugar substitutes (like Aspertame in diet drinks which damages nerves). What you eat really does affect your emotions and physical health. Dehydration also makes you depressed and most people are mildly dehydrated.

    How long do these periods of sadness last? And are you eating right and exercising?


  31.  #31Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Emerson – I’m a “do-er” as someone told me once

    Emerson if I were you I would make a commitment to drop this I am and choose to do so. You no longer have to agree with the person who said this. Choose another “I am” for yourself so you can start moving away from this. If I were you I would never repeat it again.

  32.  #32Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 11:56 am


    Thanks for your response. The extreme sadness kicked in a few weeks ago. It was awful, I wasn’t sleeping and was just feeling really sad and morose all the time. That’s when I thought I needed to express myself to my ex since I hadn’t done that before and I think that’s part of the reason that he broke up with me. I’m not sure that was a kosher RR sanctioned thing to do but I just knew I needed to express what was in my heart. Also I was hoping that it would help me to move on and initially it did but then the sadness and feelings of loss kicked in again. The good news is that I’ve cried in front of a bunch of my friends and family…I’ve grown up with the thought that feeling bad is weakness so have always had a hard time expressing myself esp around family member. But I cried in front of my brother and this was a first! Anyway, its brought us closer as it has with other friends and family.

    I sent him an email a little over a week ago. I haven’t heard back from him. Part of me is hoping that he reaches out and we get back together, but then part of me is just trying to move on.

    I guess its out of my hands now. I’ve been trying to busy myself with a ton of acitvities and dates etc but sometimes that feels like spraying air freshener over a really bad smell 😉 I’m having a hard time with faking it until you make it but I’ve found that if I keep myself busy (and not necessarily with other people) then that helps. I feel better when I’m being productive

    I have started to take better care of myself. And am trying to exercise more, and eat better (though sometimes I have hardly any appetite.) I wonder if part of this process is my heart telling me how I truly feel. I was kinda taking him for granted when we were seeing each other and thought he would always “be there” for me. I think that’s the main reason he broke up with me 🙁

    Anyway, thanks for your input, Kristine. I really appreciate it!

  33.  #33Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 12:04 pm


    Yes, how you feel about yourself in his presence is important. But some people are still addicted (and hence feel “high”) around toxic men…so therein lies the confusion.

    What I did, before I met my now husband, was to make a list of CHARACTER traits and VALUES that I admire in a man. NOT superficial things like looks, money, car, house, job, hobbies, interests, sports, etc.

    You could have absolutely nothing in common, and still have an AMAZING relationship if he is of good CHARACTER and you share the same VALUES.

    So what is and AMAZING relationship like? Most of us don’t know what a GOOD relationship even is!! We’re so used to CRAPPY ones…we’ve never seen or been in a good relationship, never mind amazing.

    You will feel good about yourself in a GOOD relationship. So how do you define a GOOD relationship? Its a relationship of trust, caring, understanding, love, kindness, respect…and its MUTUAL (meaning, it has to come from him too, not just one way from you).

    So how do you recognize a GOOD guy who can DO a GOOD relationship? First and foremost, he has to be SINGLE and AVAILABLE!! Because a married or attached or unavailable (even geographically distant) guy who hits on you, has CHARACTER flaws.

    Second, he has to be GIVING and DOING. His character has to demonstrate (through his actions towards YOU, and others) that he is a GIVING, DOING person. Who helps. Who is selfless, not selfish. If he cannot take action to do stuff for you or others, or ask “what can I do for you” or “is there anything you need” , or if he asks you to DO stuff for him, he will never be caring, loving or respectful.

    What is important is that he treats you well. And he treats those around you well. Then he’s a KEEPER.

    Get to know the men you meet. This takes time. You have to observe their actions over time. Don’t jump into bed with someone you don’t know well, as that will DISTORT your vision of him.

    How does a GOOD man, who is respectful, caring, helpful, doing, loving, feel to you???

    It took me a while to get used to that…I was only used to toxic men. I was scared of a GOOD man. Thinking it was weird. A good man was different. He was nice. He wasn’t THRILLING (with ups and downs like a drug), he was NORMAL. Almost felt boring…

    Give nice guys a chance. Let them please you. Give them space to let them come forward to do stuff for you. You’ll be surprised! You may grow to love one like I did. And he’s cute too…and we discovered we had more in common than we originally thought. VALUES and CHARACTER and how I was being treated were key. That is the PERFECT man for me.


  34.  #34Elsie on April 22, 2013 at 12:16 pm


    For clarification, I did not write that. Rori Raye did.

    Next, I would probably take the position that if you are truly with a toxic man, you really dont feel good about yourself in his presence if you are being honest…..which would lead you back to what Rori says.

  35.  #35Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Wow you’ve really grown! Congratulations!!! To be able to cry in front of your family takes courage! And to appear vulnerable is NOT weakness, its a sign of STRENGTH! Bravo for you!!

    As for communicating with your ex, I can understand why you had to tell him how you feel or felt, and that can be healing. But if you expect a result, and then that result doesn’t materialize, it will hurt.

    As with all feeling messages, they have to be expressed (like you did in front of your family) without expectation of any result. Then you will feel better.

    Toxic men will NOT respond positively to your feeling messages. I tried expressing my feelings too, to my ex, after going through the pain of divorce, and it did NOTHING to him. No remorse. No “I’m sorry”. No “I understand”. Nothing. I felt embarrassed afterwards. He felt NO love towards me. It just made him angrier. Finally I realized it was pointless talking with him. Like banging my head against the wall. Everything was my fault in his mind and he was perfect and I was the bad wife, he had nothing to do with the breakdown in our marriage whatsoever…sigh…and my feelings didn’t matter. HE HATED hearing my feelings!! Throughout my whole marriage I was walking on eggshells unable to express my feelings! What made me think he would change??? I felt terrible! I had to find another way to express myself. Writing down my feelings in a letter (not mailing it) and then ripping it up helped. Also expressing my feelings to others, such as close friends and a therapist, helped too. Even just talking out loud to myself about how I was feeling, felt good.

    The thing with feeling messages and Rori’s tools, is that they don’t FIX a broken or toxic man…you have to realize this. Don’t expect a positive response from him. They only work if the man is healthy. They weed out, and push away, the bad toxic ones. But that is good for you. You don’t want them in your life anyway.

    Great for you to be focusing on your life and getting out there. Keep it up! Yes sometimes it feels like forcing yourself, but you have to…gently… Take time to grieve too, but allocate a limited amount of time for it. After crying for an hour, tell yourself, ok that’s enough for today. I’ll schedule another cry time for tomorrow. Then find something fun and positive to do. That will keep you from wallowing…wallowing sometimes can start to feel good if its an escape from your real life and your other problems (like at work pr around the house).

    Don’t neglect your other problems or things that need to get done, like the chores!!! Or your friends or family who need you.

    You’re doing great! Keep posting your feelings on the board and start looking for things or events that make you feel good too.


  36.  #36Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Wow, Kristine, very interesting post. Thanks for sharing your experience with your ex.

    My ex has been pretty heartless and cold *after* the breakup which has been really hard for me. He was my best friend and I didn’t have a lot of other friendships. (I’m new to this small town so hadn’t developed a solid social network before we met.) I think the combination of him shutting me out after the breakup and not having a support network to fall back on has been why I’ve been so sad. I’ve been really lonely. I do wonder if part of the reason he broke up with me was to teach me a lesson. And boy am I learning – the hard way. 🙁

    Anyway, while we were together, though, he liked my emotions and even really liked when I “broke down” and was an emotional wreck.

    Sometimes I do wonder if he was toxic (he was demanding and controlling) but then I wonder if that’s just my fear speaking. He treated me really well, like a queen, and was always cooking for me, taking me out, taking me on trips etc. I tend to focus on the negative, though, so I’ve always had the tendency to exaggerate the negative to the point that it takes over the positive. Working on that. Sigh.

    Anyway, thanks for your encouragement, Kristine! 🙂

  37.  #37Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 12:57 pm


    Yes, I totally agree. Problem is most people in toxic relationships aren’t being honest with themselves…or how they feel about themselves…sometimes they say they feel great, but it goes back to childhood where toxic relationships were all they know of. So its a familiar kind of pain that feels good to them.
    And its a way of escape from reality, by spending all their energy in a toxic relationship, trying to make it happen to right the wrongs of the past, and avoiding a real, healthy relationship that requires taking a risk and being vulnerable.


  38.  #38CurvySiren10 on April 22, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Kristine. I like the stuff you’re saying but this has me curious. “Who is selfless, not selfish. If he cannot take action to do stuff for you or others, or ask “what can I do for you” or “is there anything you need” , or if he asks you to DO stuff for him, he will never be caring, loving or respectful.”

    I think that men, just like us women, need to take care of themselves and their own needs and be HAPPY, creatures in order to be a good partner. I would never want or expect a man to be “selfless”, the same way I would not want to be that way myself. It’s one thing to enjoy “doing” things for me, but another to put his own needs aside. That would create resentment and unhappiness in my opinion.

  39.  #39Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    @ Rori that made me cry… love it…

    I’m putting my own badge on and shining it up every time I tell the truth, every time I go outside my comfort zone, every time I let go and feel what I feel, every time I look at the bigger picture instead of what I can only see with my eyes and hear with my ears, every time I go with love instead of with fear, every time I can feel my heart swell up, every time I let go instead of resist….

    OOXX Thanks!

  40.  #40Mercedes on April 22, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Lisa (from the other thread): “He also wants me to answer his e-mails faster, which I found odd… I don’t answer all of them, just some.. So I can give him space…and not chase. ?? Confused…”

    In my mind, I don’t think responding to emails he sent is chasing at all and if he’s sending the emails then he clearly doesn’t need any space and if he’s asking you to respond to the emails faster than he clearly doesn’t WANT that space. This is a man who is telling you what he likes and what he wants. That is, in my opinion, a really cool thing! If he’s communicating his wants/needs to you and if it feels good to do those things, then I wouldn’t even hesitate. It’s rare for members of the opposite sex to actually come out and tell each other what we need and want. If you’ve found that, I would recommend paying close attention to what he’s asking for and see if those things feel good to you. 🙂

    Much Love,

  41.  #41Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Wow, your ex sounds just like mine! He too was heartless and cold after our divorce. I had made him my best friend too, and felt very lonely. I lost touch with girlfriends (which was a BIG mistake).

    I realized what control and narcissim looked like. Yes, he helped pay the bills, did some of the cooking, took me on trips too, but now I realize he only did things for me that he would do for HIMSELF. He never really went out of his way for me.

    When I really needed him, like when I was sick, or needed something fixed, he wasn’t there. Also, if I tried to do something for myself (something that he wouldn’t do or didn’t like) he would get angry. He wasn’t supportive. He was also very critical and verbally abusive, constantly saying how my clothes (which I liked and picked) didn’t suit me…how he didn’t like my work, he didn’t like this or that about me, my preferences, etc. Yuck!

    Whenever I wanted something (and expressed what I want), his stock answer was “you don’t need that”… or “you don’t want that”. Period. No discussion. My wants, my needs, my feelings were dismissed as irrelevant, if they weren’t what HE wanted, or needed!

    When I say GOOD men DO stuff for you, I guess I should qualify that by saying they will ASK you WHAT they can do for you. They don’t just IMPOSE stuff on you. A guy who does stuff, gives you presents, wines and dines you, could be good. But you have to be careful and step back and look at whether or not he considered your preferences or likes or dislikes. If he never asks, he is NOT doing stuff for YOU. He’s just doing it for HIMSELF, for his own ego. Some men are really smooth…the players…they know how to do everything to make a woman feel like a queen, with limos, flowers, gifts, etc. Pretending to be a good man…but they are doing it with the expectation of getting something in return…and then they poof! Or show their true colours.

    Does that sound familiar?

    You have to pick a new man who listens to your feelings and your wants, and respects them. Doesn’t dismiss them as frivoulous or wrong. He may not be able to give you everything you want, but if it is something really important to you, like a relationship, he will if he is a good guy.


  42.  #42Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Btw, when I mentioned “the lesson”, I think that there is a HUGE lesson for me to learn here.

    The big insight for me has been that the dynamic between my ex and I has been a dynamic in many other of my relationships. And that is that I take people for granted and don’t really appreciate them.

    So, I’ve really been going out of my way to really start appreciating my family and friends and I’m already seeing the huge impact that it is having!!!

    So that has been a true blessing, and maybe THAT is the reason that this all has happened.

  43.  #43Kath on April 22, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    41. Kristine.

    I thought I had a good guy!- we met 2yrs ago, fell in love immediately and within weeks were talking about how we’d get married. He wasn’t yet divorced after 7yrs but I understood the break up had been very bad for him so I was patient. Then in June last year he stopped payine the mortgage on the marital home where he was still living (his wife paid nothing) and it ended up going to court and the house now has a repossession order on it. I couldn;t see him leave the 25yr marriage with nothing and so I agreed to move in with a view to keeping hold of it until it could be sold and he could get his share and finally move on. ten months later we have argued and I have been so stressed by the experience and I have got bored of hearing him talk about his wife and their marriage on an almost daily basis. I have supported, paid for the household billd whilst he has paid the mortgage but it has been incredibly tough and he has grown more distant and less affectionate. It got to a point over the weekend where I’d had enough and asked him if his feelings for me had changed- we had another huge fight and he said “if we were living at your house now I would have ended it”. I was so stunned that i replied “Let me save you the trouble, I’m ending it”. His attempts to control the situation have become too much to bear and I have grown more determined to stand up to him,which has usually meant a row. Tonight he said that it was obvious I had anger management issues!- my confidence is being knocked and I now feel that I am not worthy but I know it is he who is lacking. I do love him and I really thought we could be happy- but it seems that I was wrong. He said tonight that he thinks I’m too bitchy and doesn;t like the way I speak my mind about his friends if I don’t like them and then he can never feel at ease with them when I’m around, even though I have always been civil to them when I see them. He also said that he feels he can’t be himself with me and it was at that point that I said there was no point continuing with the relationship, it was over. I am living in his house and I now have to find somewhere else to live. I told him I feel cheated. He said it wasn’t meant to feel like that and that he would compensate financially!!!!- I told him not to bother, that’s not what I wanted. I feel so let down. I am gutted. How could I have seen something so different a year ago??!!!

  44.  #44Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Curvey Siren,

    Yes I agree, everyone has to take care of themselves too, and by being selfless in doing stuff for others, I don’t mean that the man stops caring for himself. That would be a problem too. He has to look after both himself and his family, to be a good husband.

    Caring for oneself isn’t being selfish. Caring for oneself is just that. Taking care of one’s self. Taking time for oneself. Doing stuff that makes one feel good. Both men and women need that. And yes, if you don’t focus on yourself first, you will feel resentment and lopsided. Its not healthy.

    Being selfish is taking from others and not caring about others. A narcissist is at the extreme end of selfishness. There are varying degrees.

    Look for a man who takes care of himself AND is selfless in his actions towards others. By selfless, I mean that he wants to please YOU, not just himself, through his actions. It makes him feel manly and useful to help another. And when we appreciate him for it, they feel loved. Men are not women. They feel valued by being able to DO stuff. Women feel depleted, and tend to do way too much. And women tend to think that by doing stuff we will be valued, which is wrong. We have to feel our worth by just BEING and feeling, open and receptive.

    A man who is not selfless will do stuff for you with the expectation of getting something in return, and without ever considering your feelings or preferences. That to me is being selfish.


  45.  #45Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    That is very interesting, Kristine. Kinda hard to distinguish a toxic man from a good man when he is being very giving and generous. I don’t know, yes, some of what you are saying does ring true but on the other hand, I think a lot of RR’s work is about letting a man give to you, and being receptive. I think I was struggling with this and maybe was more open to him because of it.

    For instance, when is “giving” really just controlling? It’s a fine line sometimes and I wonder how you can make the disctinction. And why would I not want to be treated like a queen? This seems confusing to me and contradictory!!! Maybe that’s why I’ve had such a hard time with all of this. I pushed away a man who was very giving and generous. Makes no sense.

  46.  #46Kath on April 22, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    It may be interesting to add that he has a history of short term relationships which he has always ended. He has told me that he only considers himself to have had three relationships in his life, his 25yr marriage, a past girlfriend of 3yrs (off and on) and then me (2yrs). All his relationships have been turbulent and ended by him- is this a pattern I see emerging!!!!!

  47.  #47Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Liquid Light,

    You raise a good point. Nothing wrong with being treated like a Queen!! Yes it is hard sometimes to distinguish a toxic man from a good man (except for the real obvious bad guys). As Rori points out, some men may seem toxic (especially when they have been pushed away), but underneath they are not.

    The way to find out is to STOP DOING stuff for them, reaching out to them, chasing them, etc. One has to simply sit there and be receptive and open and just observe their behaviour. Speak in feeling messages and ask for what you want or don’t want.

    A toxic man will be unresponsive and will continue to hurt you, not respect your feelings or wants. A good man will listen and come towards you and respect your feelings and wants.

    Key is not to DO anything. Not to initiate anything. Not to tell him what to do or how to do it. And just watch what he does….he may turn around and you may be surprised, or he may disappear. Either way, you have to accept that and cannot control the outcome.


  48.  #48Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    “The thing with feeling messages and Rori’s tools, is that they don’t FIX a broken or toxic man…you have to realize this. Don’t expect a positive response from him. They only work if the man is healthy. They weed out, and push away, the bad toxic ones. But that is good for you. You don’t want them in your life anyway.”

    I tried feeling messages with my ex boyfriend, he was very toxic, I learned. Everytime I spoke in feeling messages he not only turned away, he would ignore what I said completely, if on the phone he would just hang up.

  49.  #49Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    “For instance, when is “giving” really just controlling? It’s a fine line sometimes and I wonder how you can make the disctinction. And why would I not want to be treated like a queen? ”

    To me, giving is controlling when there are conditions attached

  50.  #50Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 2:20 pm


    The way to find out is to STOP DOING stuff for them, reaching out to them, chasing them, etc. One has to simply sit there and be receptive and open and just observe their behaviour. Speak in feeling messages and ask for what you want or don’t want.

    A toxic man will be unresponsive and will continue to hurt you, not respect your feelings or wants. A good man will listen and come towards you and respect your feelings and wants.

    Key is not to DO anything. Not to initiate anything. Not to tell him what to do or how to do it. And just watch what he does….he may turn around and you may be surprised, or he may disappear. Either way, you have to accept that and cannot control the outcome.

    YES, this is brilliant. I did shut him down when he reached out to me after the break up. I needed to communicate to him that I was reacting out of anger but that I still did have feelings for him. I’ve done that (communicated) so your advice here is right on! Thanks!!!!

  51.  #51Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 2:21 pm


    Yikes! That sounds like an awful situation.

    Did you tell him what you want?

    A couple of suggestions, first, for feeling messages, “cheated” is not a feeling. Its not an emotion. Its an accusation and of course that would anger him.

    How do you feel? What emotions do you feel? Focus on expressing just those to him, without blame or accusation. For example, I feel angry! I feel sad. I feel frustrated, I feel scared….anything but “hurt” (which Rori says is more of an accusation, “ouch” is a better word for when he hurts you). Then ask for what you want and say “what do you think?”. That’s it. Let him vent and steam and huff and puff. Just stick to your feelings and don’t fight. Being vulnerable takes courage.

    How is it you really feel?

    Second, stop doing stuff for him. Stop trying to help him. Stop telling him what to do. Stop complaining about anything to him. Can you stop paying his mortgage? Just stop doing anything. You don’t even have to move out…unless you want to. Just sit there.

    A man has to fix his own problems. Its not your job to be his financier, his mother or his therapist. He will fall out of love if you do that.

    To communciate with him effectively, you have to just say how you feel (e.g. happy, sad, angry, scared, all of which are EMOTIONS, not thoughts, things or events that happen.) Then ask for what you want. And add “what do you think?” Then just listen and repeat.

    So how do YOU feel? What do YOU want?



  52.  #52Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    To me, giving is controlling when there are conditions attached

    Yes, but what if the conditions are being accepted, appreciated and loved? That’s what we all want and that’s part of giving so not sure about that…again its a fine line sometimes.

  53.  #53Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Conditions like, he gives to you when he approves of your behavior, will take you for a lovely dinner if you agree to cancel another date;
    When a man uses his giving as a reward to modify your behavior. He wont go meet your family because you objected to his leaving you home to watch a game….

  54.  #54Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Telling a man you have feelings for HIM, is not part of Rori’s method. And its not a feeling message. Feeling messages are about YOU. Not HIM.

    Expressing that you feel ANGRY is good. But you don’t have to EXPLAIN your actions…eg. I reacted out of anger. That is a thinking message. An explanation. It doesn’t work.

    If he does contact you again, and if you want to speak to him and try this, just say “I felt angry.” Period. No explanation or discussion about how or why you felt angry or reacted. Simply a feeling message about YOUR emotions (past or present).

    Then say what YOU want or don’t want, without referring to him (or telling him what to do). Do you know what you want??? What is it you really truly want??? Say, I want a happy relationship…or I don’t want to feel this way. Or I want my freedom. Or I want to get back together….or whatever it is that you want…think about it.

    Then ask “what do you think?” That’s it. Stop. No more talking. Listen, listen and repeat.

    And if he doesn’t come back, just move on and don’t initiate any contact.


  55.  #55April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    I’m intrigued in this discussion about a man’s giving and his motives for doing so.

    I would say my fella is a good man with toxic traits. He tends to put himself first. He was an only child.

    He will do stuff for me, and he does come towards me when I do nothing. Often when he comes to me it’s with excitement about one of his own projects and he talks about himself a lot.
    He seems a bit clueless – for example, he talks about his own appearance quite a bit. I said “you know what? As a woman I’d feel more special if my appearance was being noticed and appreciated”.

    The man is no slouch. When he remembers to be vocal about me instead of himself, he has some touching and lovely compliments to share.
    I hate prompting him for them, though.

  56.  #56Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    We tend to explain away, excuse a man’s behavior, but these facts are irrelevant. The only thing that counts is if the amount of attention and energy he is giving to you is enough and it feels good.

  57.  #57Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    April Rose,

    Very interesting. Yes men LOVE to talk about themselves…and that’s not always bad. They DO need to be appreciated and recognized for their strengths and abilities. It makes them feel manly. It makes them feel needed and loved.

    My husband does that too. He comes to me all happy and excited wanting to show me something he just built. I say “wow that’s awesome!” It makes him feel good. And if he gives something to me that he just made, or gives a nice compliment, I always say “thank you”. Its respectful. Never forget to respect your man! Nothing wrong with saying he looks handsome when he makes the effort to look good for you. Look for ways he is trying to please you.

    Don’t prompt him for compliments. Some guys just aren’t very complimentary. It doesn’t make them bad men. If you start thanking him and appreciating him, you will see he might change and start calling you “sexy” or whatever term of endearment he thinks is special.

    Remember, men are not women. They don’t share all their feelings and know how to talk to women. They talk like guys, sometimes rough or crass. You simply have to be prepared to express yourself if something they say or do doesn’t feel good. “that doesn’t feel good”.

    But focus on what they do for you and the family and appreciate them for that! Even little things or every day chores like taking out the trash, or mowing the lawn. THANK HIM!!!


  58.  #58Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    We tend to explain away, excuse a man’s behavior, but these facts are irrelevant. The only thing that counts is if the amount of attention and energy he is giving to you is enough and it feels good.

    That’s funny because he was giving me too much time and attention!!!

  59.  #59Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    The problems I was having with my relationship are directly the opposite of what most women on this blog are having in their relationships. That’s why a lot of what I hear back here just doesn’t seem that relevant to what I was experiencing.

    But I do like what you said, Kristine. That does make sense. Btw, he always *liked it* when I expressed my emotions about him and our relationship, at least when we were dating.

  60.  #60April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    What feels bad is when a man helps e.g washes the dishes, and then expresses anger/resentment for having done so.

  61.  #61Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Were you scared of all the time and attention you were getting?

    It felt weird to me too at first… to get a man’s time and attention. But when you are used to chasing, it feels strange to receive. Realize that that is normal and that is how a GODDESS is supposed to be, attracting men with her siren song…


  62.  #62April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Liquid Light,

    My last relationship was with a man who gave me more time and attention than I wanted. He turned out to be unpleasantly possessive and jealous.

  63.  #63April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    I intend that one day I’ll have the balance right – I’ll be recieving and experiencing the amount of time and attention from a man that makes me FEEL just GREAT

  64.  #64Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    April Rose,

    Did you ask or tell him to wash the dishes or help with the dishes? That will make him angry.

    If you don’t want to do the dishes, the way to communicate it is simply say…”I’m tired (a feeling message). I don’t want to do the dishes. What do you think?”

    Never tell him what to do or blame him.

    Seems funny, but it works. Now he may not pick up the washing and the dishes may pile up in the sink, but you get to take care of you and how you feel.

    And if you never want to wash the dishes again…hmmm, see how long you can let them pile up? Maybe he will go out and buy you a dishwasher!


  65.  #65Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    April Rose

    Yeah, I can relate to that. He could be possessive and jealous…on the other hand, no one is perfect. And being wined and dined, and taken on trips, and doing fun stuff all the time wasn’t so bad!!! ARGH!!!

  66.  #66Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Time and attention are overrated and can be in the wrong form…like April Rose mentioned about jealousy and possessiveness.

    What you want is to observe men who DO stuff for you that make YOU feel good.

    When I was dating, there were guys who were CONSTANTLY texting or emailing, trying to get my attention and wasting LOTS of my time. No action. No real dates. No respect.

    That’s why it takes time to get to know a guy, see how he treats you. Is he caring? Is he jealous? There could be many character flaws that don’t reveal themselves until much later.

    Rori’s method of CD’ing also helps, because you will see so many different types of men, that the red flags of one will jump out at you.


  67.  #67Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    well no one is perfect and this is one of my big flaws: I am always looking for perfection and don’t cut people slack. So…not sure if I agree with that one…don’t we want our man to be a little possessive and jealous???? I kinda liked it!!!

  68.  #68Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Telling a man how you feel about him, how much you love him or the relationship, is NOT a feeling message. Its not how YOU feel. Its directed at him…an arrow at him. You’re flowing the water from your water wheel of love, all over him and just getting the drips back in return. Sure he’ll love that. Men will take all the attention you give them…and that will push them away. It’s chasing…

    A man should be telling YOU how HE feels about you and the relationship and then you can respond in kind. That’s being responsive. He has to say it first.

    See the difference?


  69.  #69Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Perhaps it’s more about finding a balance, an energy exchange, as Rori puts it, that you are comfortable with.
    Plus feeling deserving of the attention.
    If it feels yuck, new boundaries may be considered

  70.  #70Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    this conversation is starting to make me uncomfortable. I just think its unrealistic to look for perfection and quite honestly I think its a bit dangerous to give people advice that they should. That’s what this conversaiton is feeling like to me. And I think sometimes where I go wrong is not listening to my gut, and listening to strangers on the internet that don’t know me and don’t know my situation and are giving advice which may be totally off-base and based soley on their experience but is being presented as “universal” wisedom or something makes me a bit uneasy…

    Not saying I haven’t heard some very relevant and helpful stuff here, I have, but I guess I just need to filter out what seems useful.

  71.  #71Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Also, sometimes we might feel guilty, getting lots of attention if the feelings re not mutual

  72.  #72Linda G on April 22, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    I hope I don’t sound preachy, I am just wondering about this issue as all of you are. I dont feel qualified to advise, only to surmise

  73.  #73Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    another thought, I don’t know, trying to communicate with someone in such a restricted way according to “rules” is just something that feels strange to me. Whenever I communicated to my ex and it was authentic (and I think RR hits the nail on the head with this), he always responded to that really well. Even if it was messy, and angry, and accusatory, and blaming (though I did try to avoid that) he responded to authenticity…always.

  74.  #74Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Liquid Light,

    You are right, no one is perfect and men will always do things that irk us. We all make mistakes. We are all human and sometimes we inadvertantly hurt others’ feelings.

    And some people like different things, more attention, less attention, its all fine. The key is knowing what YOU want from a relationship and how to express it in a way that doesn’t push men away.

    If you want attention, ask for it. Just say how you feel, e.g. I feel lonely. I want more attention. If you don’t want attention, say it, e.g. I feel suffocated. I don’t want so much attention. What do you think?

    Its all in the communication. This method of communication will help you find a man that is perfect FOR YOU. That’s awesome that you realize he doesn’t have to be a perfect man!!


  75.  #75Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Sorry Liquid Light if I made you feel uncomfortable. I don’t want to tell you what to do or not do and you are right I don’t know all the facts of your situation.

    But I do know Rori’s tools for communicating with men work, at least they worked for me and others, and they are authentic. They speak from the heart and are simply meant to express how you feel. They may be different and not what we are used to. I never knew how to express my feelings. It took me a long time to learn how to do that. I’m only trying to help clarify how to apply her tools. As are others on this blog. That’s all.


  76.  #76Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    well I don’t think saying “I feel suffocated” would have gone over that well. That’s the way I was acting and that’s a big part of the reason why he broke up with me. However, now that I don’t have the relationship anymore, I really miss it. So yeah, I did feel like he was too demanding sometimes but hey, nothing is perfect. And sometimes you don’t appreciate what you have until its gone.

    So yeah of course we want a man to accomodate every whim and desire we have but I think its a bit unrealistic to expect that. Relationships are about give and take and that’s not something I’ve been that good at. Maybe this was the lesson for me out of this.

  77.  #77Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    @Kristine 54

    This confused me…. ” Telling a man you have feelings for HIM, is not part of Rori’s method. And its not a feeling message. ”

    Ok so when he ask me or tells me he loves me.. and I say it back… I love you very much… or I’ve said to him ” I adore you”…

    Can you explain this in the context that you mean it so I can understand how this is not part of Rori’s method… Thanks!

  78.  #78Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Sorry I’m feeling super sensitive right now. I really need to take care of myself and listen to my gut here. That’s where I’ve gone wrong in the past, by not listening to my gut. Even if I totally F up, that’s what I need to do. Besides that, I don’t have anything to lose, the relationship has ended, I feel like crap, so things couldn’t get any worse! Yay for me!

  79.  #79Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 3:52 pm


    Telling a man you have feelings for him when he hasn’t told you first, is leaning forward and masculine.

    Its perfectly fine if he initiates. He tells you he loves you and you say it back. That’s wonderful!!


  80.  #80Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Liquid Light,

    As Rori would say, don’t beat yourself up.

    Rori has some good advice in her blog directory about Breakup and Divorce. I spent a lot of time in that space reading, reading and reading. It helped.

    But the pain is there. I can feel it. Its ok….

    YAY for taking care of yourself, nurturing yourself, and expressing how you feel! Feeling like crap. Feeling sensitive. Missing him. Those are feelings that need to come out. That is a good step towards healing.

    Sending you hugs,


  81.  #81Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Giving someone advice, directly or “implied”, about whether or not someone is right for you or not is just not an appropriate thing to do on this blog.

  82.  #82Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Thanks, Kristine, yes, I’m really struggling with this.

  83.  #83Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    I love this conversation, its really rich….

    Punishment is the term I use when a man doesn’t follow through with a date/event b/c you did something. It’s called passive/aggressive… it is controlling and very toxic… the problem with it is that it is so covert. It’s really hard to KNOW if that is why the date didn’t go through or got cancelled. It took me years of feeling punished to figure out that it was intentional.. he wasn’t ever going to admit it. So, if anyone has ideas on how to know if that kind of covert behavior is going on, I’d love to know. It totally tend to attract men like that. And knowing what I know that means that I tend to punish me too! Else I wouldn’t attract men that covertly punish by withholding dates or events… So, do you just outright ask him when the event doesn’t happen why? or just go by your feeling. If you feel punished by it.. ?? Which for me may take some time… b/c I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

  84.  #84Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    @Kristine 79 Oh thanks! Ok good….

    but I have said it to him first now and then… not a lot.. I usually wait for him to say it to me…

    Is this ongoing? or is there a point when you ( maybe after marriage) you can balance it more?

    🙂 Thanks!

  85.  #85Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    People jumping to conclusions about my relationship when they don’t know much about it, or base it on their experience (which is what we all do), has really not served me well. I’m talking about family members and friends. So I’m really sensitive to this input right now.

    It’s so easy to sit back and think you’ve got someone else’s dynamic/relationship pegged. My relationship was very consuming and it was hard to get any perspective on it while I was in it. Now that i’m out of it and its been a few months, I’m seeing things differently, and feeling different emotions. But everyone jumped to their own conclusions initially and that really affected me. Not going to let that happen again because this isn’t about anyone else’s relationship or life. It’s about my life and my relationship.

  86.  #86April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    I hear you about the ‘punishment’. I’m judging that this is happening to me too.
    What’s challenging for me to get at, are the feelings underneath. ‘I’m being punished here’ is a thought. So what’s the feeling? Disappointment? Helplessness? I have sunk into helpless feelings recently, right in front of the man. It feels bad to me to lose control. It makes me feel unwanted when I perceive a promise has not been granted. It makes me feel small and powerless.

  87.  #87April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    I feel unsafe thinking that my behaviour can be rewarded or punished. It reminds me of trying to fit into what I think someone else wants me to be. Feels restrictive, unflowing, gloomy, and earthbound.

    I want to feel joyous and free to express my nature as it truly finds itself in each moment. That would feel like soaring through a summer sky with a light cooling breeze washing over my skin…

  88.  #88April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    I want to feel my heart dancing.

  89.  #89April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    A man has a right to change his mind.

    I’m getting into his head if I think he has changed his mind because of me.

    It’s another way to look at it.

    I’m going to always have a Plan B in place for myself, for when he doesn’t follow through. I will not perceive punishment. I’ll be too busy rewarding MYSELF!!!!

    Ha ha. Lisa, what do you think about this? I want to shift this pattern, and this looks like a possible tool.

  90.  #90sha-sha on April 22, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Love this thread 🙂

  91.  #91BeLoved on April 22, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    The discussion about not showing up for a date, as a form of punishment, and the idea to have a Plan B has me thinking of Byron Katie.
    She doesn’t think she’s been abandoned or punished, she says, “I’ve been spared!”
    Thank goodness I’m not out with a mean-spirited man tonight 🙂

  92.  #92April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I didn’t tell/ask him to do the dishes. He did them on his own initiative.
    He doesn’t do much ‘housework’. I’m guessing it’s a man thing in his family.
    I would feel so relaxed and cared for if he did more.
    I’m gonna look again at Love Scripts and the chapter on negotiating tasks, and find what to say to him about it.

  93.  #93Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    @AprilRose 89 Oh of course.. I always have a plan B. Yes, anyone can change their minds..

    That is the covert part. Watching, feeling and determining if it is in fact withholding. I was in a Passive/ Aggressive relationship for 10 years.. I’ve never been in a more toxic situation. It was horrible. Worse than being in a physically abusive one, which I have been.

    So, I do always have a plan B and if he doesn’t grant the event, I try and make it happen for myself.. I did that already with “M” ( not the earlier mentioned past guy) He didn’t follow through for the opera, I went to one I wanted to go to. He isn’t following through on a picnic trip, I go myself.. I treat me to what I want and he can follow through or not. That way I’m not dependent on him to get what I want. I can use my feelings voice and say I’m frustrated and see what he has to say.

    However, I still feel very strongly about intent, and if any man’s intent ( in a relationship with me..only I’m speaking for myself) is to punish or withhold, I don’t want that type man. Period! I’m very clear on that and it isn’t up for negotiations. Only b/c I won’t go through that type of relationship again.

    I do agree with the tool, it helps me!!!… and I’ll watch with curiosity to see how my relationship unfolds with “M” feels… pull back and just observe. I circle dated today and connected with lots of men and bought myself a dozen roses.. that felt really good!…

  94.  #94April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    That’s cool about Byron Katie. Like her, I want to remove the idea that I am punishable
    And, at the same time, I don’t want to believe the man is mean-spirited.

  95.  #95Dominique on April 22, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    I tried to post this several times last Friday to no avail. And I even asked some of the other women to try for me, also a no go. One last try.

    Arachne – I want to apologize for not being clear. It can be difficult in a forum like this, especially when my little brain gets stuck on one track, i.e sex outside of what was understood as a monogamous union.

    I have no problem at all with cyber sex. I think it can be a lot of fun and fulfilling in some ways as long as it’s between two consenting adults. I’ve had it with my man for example.

    Yet even if it’s between two people who have not met in person, as long as no one else is being hurt, I say have at it, enjoy, have fun.

    I think the world might very well have fewer problems if more people were having more good sex.

    The problem I have with this though is when this is when the other partner is not okay with it, where he or she feels s/he has been cheated on.

    Again I’m sorry for not having been more clear.


  96.  #96Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    @ BeLoved! So agree with you! I love Byron Katie and do TheWork often as i can…

    Yes, I’ve been spared and am never rejected.. only I can do that…

    I also love when she says: I can love him the way he is and that doesn’t mean I can stay.


  97.  #97April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    I am theorizing at the moment, and want to believe that I do not know a man’s intent. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m thinking that feels better for ME!

    When I get triggered, however, I perceive punishment coming at me BIG TIME.

    The big question for me here is – is it my own mind punishing me by drawing towards me behaviour that I see as punishing me?

    Aaaagh. Stop April Rose. You are messing with my mind!!!

  98.  #98Zia on April 22, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    There is one thing that I know, and that is whenever I’m on the right “path”, the universe throws things at me to let me know.

    I’ve been struggling the past couple of days with the desire to slip back into old habits and ways of dealing with things. First there was an email relating to some other personal growth work I’ve been doing. Then Rori’s email last night. And now this post. pew pew pew! The universe is throwing messages at me and so I’m sitting on my hands, waiting for these urges to go back to hold habits passes.

    The thing is, the old habits feel bad yet they are familiar, and the lure of “comfort zone” and “familiar” is so tempting. Follow my feelings…..

  99.  #99April Rose on April 22, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Sinking into my womanly body.
    Breathe, April Rose.
    Good feelings.
    Tired, sleepy feelings.
    No more thoughts.
    I love me.
    I feel like melting into a soft mattress and heavenly pillow.
    Hello dreams.
    Goodnight ladies.

  100.  #100Angela on April 22, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    @ Kristine 8-Thank you I am loving your support and positive energy. Ah I hope the response was for me, either way I am taking it. ” Shyness doesn’t push men away” -love that. I think I might just say “I feel shy around you”, Next time I see him, and of course if I still feel shy.

  101.  #101Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Personally, I’d be really pissed if someone changed their mind and stood me up.

  102.  #102Dominique on April 22, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Arachne if you’re around, I tried to post this many time last Friday with no success, wouldn’t go through. I was then away for a long weekend until this evening. I wish this had gotten to you sooner.

    Arachne – I want to apologize for not being clear. It can be difficult in a forum like this, especially when my little brain gets stuck on one track, i.e sex outside of what was understood as a monogamous union.

    I have no problem at all with cyber sex. I think it can be a lot of fun and fulfilling in some ways as long as it’s between two consenting adults. I’ve had it with my man for example.

    Yet even if it’s between two people who have not met in person, as long as no one else is being hurt, I say have at it, enjoy, have fun.

    I think the world might very well have fewer problems if more people were having more good sex.

    The problem I have with this though is when this is when the other partner is not okay with it, where he or she feels s/he has been cheated on.

    Again I’m sorry for not having been more clear.


  103.  #103Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    I think its so funny that people give advice based on their own experience but come across as if what they are saying is “the truth”.

    So if a woman has been treated like **** by men in the past, then her advice is going to be coming from he’s treating you like **** no matter what, even if there is lots more to it than what meets the eye. Men get hurt too and can act from that place, its not just women who get hurt and act out.

    So advice is mostly to be taken with a grain of salt.

  104.  #104Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Sorry I’m just feeling really angry right now.

    And my mother’s take on the situation was that the reason I was so upset was because I’m going through menopause (which I’m not). And that’s because *she* has no ability to express her emotions and so she filters everything through oh you must have some physical problem.

    That was a really hurtful thing to say I felt but then again I need to remind myself that its because of her limited way that she expresses herself (or can’t express herself rather) But it still feels really hurtful if I think about it. I just need to let it go though.

  105.  #105Zia on April 22, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Liquid Light: sending lots of love and wrapping you up in a big warm hug xoxo

  106.  #106Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Thank you, Zia! I really needed that!!!

  107.  #107Zia on April 22, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Liquid Light: I know x

    I think the thing to remember is that yes, advice and feedback is coloured by our own experiences, but everyone on here means well.

    We’ve all suffered in past relationships and none of us want to see another person suffer the way we have.

    Let the anger come up, experience it, it will keep coming up but hopefully a little less each time 🙂

  108.  #108Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    It’s not really dissipating that much 🙁

  109.  #109Elsie on April 22, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    Hi all, just catching up with everyone – whew, I feel like there is so much here!!! 🙂

    I have a bit of an issue that I am not sure how to handle, so I thought I would ask you ladies. Dominique and I have visited about how we are emotionally more sensitive people, and for me that means that I cant just jump in and say what I’m feeling because frankly, I dont know if what I’m feeling is real and I have to give it 24 hours or longer to process to see if it is…

    OK – so a couple of things. Advice, opinions are being solicited LOL….

    1. He knew we were going out on Sat. We had a GREAT time. We just hung out at a bookstore and then he took me to a very fancy dinner. But, he didnt have anything Planned, and I would have liked that. I am not upset because we had an awesome time, but I wish he would have planned something. Also, he knows I like flowers (trust me, this man knows) but I have only gotten flowers once. I know that in the whole scheme of things this isnt major, just wondering how or if I should handle it.

    2. Last night he was over in the early evening. We were talking about something that I am planning for us. I NEVER plan anything, but this is a special event happening in our city that I have talked about forever with him, and so now we are going to get to do it and I”m really excited. He said he really wants to go….

    Here is the deal. My ex-husband was never super excited about anything. Exhausting. He was eeyore about stuff, and just not ENTHUSIASTIC.

    So in this case, when GS is not super enthusiastic exciting gushing…..its a HUGE TRIGGER for me. I feel like I want him to act a certain way (expectations, I know) but it makes me feel almost rejected…..and at the very least, not reassured.

    Now, let me say that as you all know, I need WAY more reassurance than is healthy, and he gives less reassurance than I would like, so I am working on that because its MY DEAL, but there you have it.

    Its not a crisis…..its just somthing I’m trying to work through and thought I’d ask your advice on it….

  110.  #110Femininewoman on April 22, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    RE 77 Lisa part of it is about where you are coming from. If you say it to control the outcomr, as in him saying it back can bnackfire. He could respond with thank you, and that could build resentment inside you. He could also feel obligated to say it back and therefore feel controlled. Getting to a place where you can just say it from your heart because it just feels good to say it can just change things

  111.  #111seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I feel absolutely gifted reading tonight. Shiny badge for myself for happily cding my doc and nurses. Brilliant!!!! Everywhere love, yes!!! No fear and it felt marvelous…………. smiling and tired, sweet sleep sirens

  112.  #112seahorse on April 22, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    103 Liquid light – But it still feels really hurtful if I think about it. I just need to let it go though.

    I feel sad reading this part. Big hugs to the hurt Liquid Light.

  113.  #113Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    I feel bubbly today which feels more like anxious bubbly-ness covering up fear and anxiety. My lips feel tense. I love my tension. I find myself in fight or flight mode, tension in my fists and ankles. I love my fists I love my ankles. I love my fight or flight mode. I can trust me no matter what, I’m more than I give myself credit for.

  114.  #114Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Yep. I can trust me no matter what. Writing it makes me feel peaceful somehow.

  115.  #115Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    I was not good enough at my dancing classes today. I fel sad sad sad… crying rivers of tears..

  116.  #116Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Hehe 🙂

  117.  #117MovingMagic on April 22, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    AttentiveCd likes to make me feel like a goddess. He keeps telling me that after I told him I feel like one in his presence. Being where I’m at with myself feels pretty amazing. Like I’m emotionally covering myself in exotic jewels. Bedazzled from head to toe. I’m learning how to honor myself more & more & it feels so feminine…and deeply rooted.

  118.  #118Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    I feel thankful to MH fir driving me to classes though.that felt sweet.. like going from school with a boy who’s carrying your bad..

  119.  #119Vi on April 22, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Wheee 🙂

  120.  #120Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    @femininewoman 109 Oh ok then that’s good… since we have been saying it so long now… I do say it first but I don’t expect to hear it back… and sometimes he says it to me and I smile really big and take it in… and I don’t need to say it back to him, he feels me feeling it…

    I’ll keep that in mind thought just in case there is a time when I catch myself expecting something in return. Wow this work is awesome! It keeps me totally honest with myself and him and my intentions…


  121.  #121Zara on April 22, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    If You Want To Hear Him Say “I Love You” – Read This
    Monday, 18 July 2011 7:22am
    written by Rori Raye

    Here’s a letter from Rachel, who’s got that age-old dilemma of how to be happy with a good man – even if he doesn’t fill in all the blanks for you…

    “Dear Rori, I try to follow your invaluable advice… I have read your book twice now and I think it has helped although I have run into a real doozy with my new boyfriend.

    We were friends for a year, I didn’t even see him as relationship material until he started to do so many things for me with regard to helping around my house and with my career. We became business partners and then… soon after I finally said goodbye for the last time to my ex I suddenly noticed him.

    How sweet and thoughtful he was and how he seemed to be there for me. One thing lead to another and within a couple of months we were sleeping together.

    It quickly escalated to every night! I love that he calls me everyday, wants to see me every night, even if we don’t have sex. even if it is usually under the guise of business.

    The problem is that he has told me how he felt about me only once (and we’re going on 4 months now) when he had to travel out of town and missed me. He finally confessed that he’d liked me since we met and felt too intimidated to ask me out.

    It was very sweet, although over the phone, and we talked for a couple of hours and both confessed our feelings, it was great and what I had been waiting to hear.

    But then I went to visit him and it all returned back to the same never talking about anything.

    He never has taken me on a real date (we’re both very broke though), but not even for just a drink. We’ve gone out, but I am a social person and it’s always at my instigation and usually along with other friends.

    I am used to men who tell me how they feel or at least tell me the things they like about me. I feel as though we are still just good friends, but we sleep together.

    I trust him completely and don’t think he’s looking for anyone else so I feel like I’m being spoiled by wanting to hear it from him. I’m not the best communicator but I’ve tried to bring it up and he doesn’t seem to get it.

    I think he’s trying to show me by doing so many wonderful things for me so I hesitate to push it because in every other way he gives me exactly what I want which is time spent together. But he never makes it feel special. He said he’s not romantic but I’ve never experienced anyone who so honestly seems to feel that way.

    Am I being needy, wanting some validation? Or is validation normal to want in a relationship? He hasn’t had many girlfriends and is much younger than me, so I want to be patient and possibly show him. But I’m not sure if that’s just pushing and I should just accept him for how he is… I think I will eventually leave or cheat if it stays the same.

    Craving romance ….Rachel”

    My Answer:

    ***Briefly, Rachel, here’s what I’ll focus on – since none of your relationships (you mention your ex) have ever really worked out (is that right?) then why are you trying to push this one – which clearly IS working – into the dust bin?

    Some men just aren’t romantic, some men can’t say they love you (though it sounds like you had a very fulfilling phone conversation).

    This is not about “romance.”

    This is about the big ticket items:

    Do you want to be married to him?

    Do you want to live with him?

    When do you suppose that should start to come together?

    Do you see him moving in that direction?

    Are you spending so much time together that living together and marriage seem like a logical next step?

    Or are you “dating” – in which case you should also be “dating” many other men at the same time.

    The 3rd and 4th month of a relationship is very challenging – that’s when things turn real or they don’t.

    What YOU have to do is to start saying not what you WANT – but what you DON’T want – you don’t want to “date” him exclusively indefinitely without knowing where you’re headed or how he feels, and if he just isn’t lighting your fire – perhaps your fire is lit by men who do not treat you well (this guy’s ACTIONS are speaking louder than words – sounds like he’s “giving” to you.

    The next few weeks are for you to become more vulnerable, for you to see if you enjoy his company and want the relationship to move on to marriage, and see what he does.

    They are for you to keep your options open until he tells you to shut them down. He has to make these decisions, and pushing him is not only useless – it does not serve you.

    Take care of yourself, enjoy him on a moment by moment basis – and see if those moments grow into a lifetime.

    Stay in touch with your feelings and you’ll know what’s happening – pushing him to give to you in the way you want him to give to you will not work.

    Let him know whenever he does something you LIKE, and let him know whenever he does something you don’t like.

    Let him know how it feels – what about your relationship makes you feel “not special” – all that (but first – really examine your own feelings, motives – what you really want for the long run.

    I say brava to you to know that if things don’t work for you the way you like, you’re happy to leave and let another man make you happy. It also sounds like this guy deserves a shot.

    Love, Rori”

    And I just received this from Rachel:

    “Rori, Thank you so much for your awesome response… you seem to have hit the nail on the head. I do believe he is worth a shot. I will follow your advice with an emphasis on telling him what I LIKE… and DON’T like. We have made a little headway since I wrote you and actually, the approach I took is right in line with the advice you are giving me.

    Once I backed off at being angry about it and really tried to understand his motives and trust that he does want to be with me without having to hear it first, it seemed to fall into place a little more naturally.

    I had to patiently communicate my thoughts on relationships and my needs very clearly so that he didn’t immediately go into the old “this girl is pushing me to giving up my own sense of self for her” thing that he and a lot of men seem to fall into when put into this position.

    I told him that I liked the way he was and didn’t want him to change his ambitions and goals and sense of independence (which is what attracted me to him in the first place), but that I needed to communicate my needs in order to feel comfortable. I also told him that “I look at every relationship as though it is going to last forever…now so far none of them have, and guess what? It was okay” … and that got a laugh out of him and helped ease him into openly discussing the future.

    I got out of him (It wasn’t easy and took two phone conversations and a final talk in person) that he does want a relationship, doesn’t want me to see other men and is open to the idea that visions of the future are always subject to change and to keep an open mind.

    Which for now is enough for me. That may change in time, and I will follow your advice and keep at it…But I am a fan of letting things progress naturally, as he is. And pushing was as you said… “pushing it into the dust bin” and making me more miserable.

    Thank you for recognizing that he is giving to me… It helps to hear that you see that.

    Many of my friends can’t understand why I’m so crazy about him, but when you said that “my fire may be lit by men who don’t treat me so well” you were right on.

    I think I’m finally recognizing that and to have someone who is giving of their time and energy and someone so trustworthy as well, is just an amazing feeling. I do feel as though he is quite a hidden treasure that I really want to cherish.

    Thank you for being so in tune Rori. You are doing a great service for my often irrational state of mind when it comes to love. And no doubt for others as well.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you….

    The take-away here is that most stuff we think matters doesn’t matter at all.

    It doesn’t matter what other people think, it doesn’t matter what our family thinks, it doesn’t matte what your “brain” thinks – what matters is that you feel “met” emotionally, that your physical, emotional, psychological, romantic needs are being filled enough so that you feel a constant sense of well being and contentment and comfort when you’re around a man and when you aren’t.

    FEELING loved – and TRUSTING you are loved is where it’s at – and when you’re feeling that – you can speak to a man so directly and truthfully and emotionally authentic that he will change what he needs to in order to make you happy. Period.

    So …look for that. Look for your feelings, not for what a man is like on paper.

    Love, Rori

  122.  #122Zara on April 22, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Never Say I Love You First
    written by Rori Raye
    Sunday, 4 July 2010

    My husband’s away for a bit, with his family on the east coast, and I opted to stay home and create a lovely “retreat” for myself.

    This morning he called, it was a nice talk, I said I miss you and he said nothing back, just kept talking about something else, then I said I love you, and he said nothing back, just went ahead talking about stuff, finishing up the call, I said “…if you don’t tell me you love me I’m going to be mad….”

    He backtracked and of course said it….whewwweee….

    How weird are emotions?

    Lesson – never say I love you unless you’re positive you’re not expecting anything in return – which is NEVER going to happen…because it’s IMPOSSIBLE not to notice that a man doesn’t say it back….so even after all these years, I still have to be cool and lean back…

    I walk my talk, and I shared with him on the next call (he started calling even more often and saying I love you for sure…) how weird all that felt, and that I didn’t want him to feel obligated to say he loves me, but that it feels really bad when he doesn’t – so how is this landing for him?

    So he told me he didn’t feel any obligation – (guess what – men DON’T feel obligated!!! That’s a “woman” thing we’ve been taught and fed and made to feel guilty about…) and I realized at that moment that I was making something out of nothing.

    Exactly like I talk about here.

    I really, really wanted him to say I love you.

    It was so important to me, apparently, that I was waiting for it. I was noticing the absense of it. I cared whether he said it or not.

    I was feeling all kinds of things, with him not there with me.

    I had all kinds of expectations and conflicting feelings. I felt angry – even though I had no “cause” to be angry. I felt frustrated. I felt sad. I felt happy. I felt all kinds of things and was only aware of some of them.

    But it all comes down to ONE THING.

    I could easily have processed my feelings. There on the call with him, or after…I could have written here about it, or journalled, or cried, or danced and sang or drawn and painted or gone somewhere or channeled in so many ways.

    But, instead – I said I love you first.

    I tried to get him to say it by saying it first.

    This wasn’t walking my talk. This was an old thing coming up.

    I wasn’t truly sharing my feelings, expressing myself.

    It wasn’t love I was talking – it was – “I’ll say it and then YOU’LL say it!”

    I was trying to GET him to say it.

    I didn’t know it at the time.

    I thought I was just being loving.

    I thought I didn’t really have an agenda.

    I thought I didn’t really care if he said it or not after all these 20 plus years together.

    I knew he loves me, and so I thought I didn’t feel insecure or WANT anything from him. And so I said it.

    And guess what. I was wrong.

    I felt like every other woman on the planet who says I love you first. I felt BAD. I felt stupid.

    I felt those things because he didn’t respond quickly enough. He didn’t get the message. He didn’t pick up on the clue.

    And so – I started feeling MORE things.

    Now – imagine if we do this all day long. With our man, our children, our friends. What if there’s ALWAYs a hidden agenda?

    What if we’re not all as “together” as we seem to be or think we are?

    What if simple things like affection and attention and words are NOT so very simple?

    What if everything’s some kind of signal to our more primitive, old-habit brain?

    I re-discovered that, for me at least – that’s the truth.

    I didn’t just cancel out my entire programming and habits. I may have replaced them with much better skills and more awareness and knowledge and love of myself – but – those Nasty Voices and inner pressures are still THERE.

    They don’t go away.

    So – the trick here is to catch it when it happens.

    I caught it. I spoke what I caught.

    I wish I could have laughed, but I didn’t feel that – I felt silly, but not in a fun sort of way. Later I laughed, and now I’m telling you so I can feel the bitterweetness of how even the smallest thing can trigger us.

    So here’s the deal: Have faith that the Tools work. Maybe not instantly, at every moment, exactly the way you want them to – at your fingertips ready to go into action – but once you catch something, and get an awareness you didn’t have before – everything shifts.

    The old habits get fuzzier, and the new skills and powers and depth of real feeling come forward and fill your energy with more light and clarity.

    And this can happen especially when you make a “mistake.”

    Saying and doing something that ends up making you feel bad because it actually started as an old habit thought – still – that can open up a NEW door for you. Like this little thing did for me.

    No matter what – you still cannot say I love you first.

    Yes – You must open your heart first. Always. You must be like an open book with the pages that are you – flying free for everyone to see. The colorful ones and the black and white ones, and the empty ones, too.

    But the words. The words come from places we don’t always see.

    If I had said: ” I’m noticing that I’m sort of waiting for you to say I love you. This feels really weird after being with you so long…” – that would have been different. That would have been my book open.

    But, instead – I tried for a higher spiritual plane where it didn’t “matter” that I said it first. And I discovered that I said it as a “trick.”

    So – look for YOUR tricks – start to notice them when you want to do them.

    I’ll be working right alongside you, doing my Tools, waving my arms in the water and the air like the Siren I am, floating in the sweet, flosing waters of myself, and picturing you doing the same.

    Love, Rori

  123.  #123Zara on April 22, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    When to NOT Say I Love You
    Tuesday, 16 November 2010
    written by Rori Raye

    “Rori, Am I allowed to say “I Love You” to him, or does that put pressure on him?

    I’ve been struggling with this for almost a year now, especially after having sex. That is the time when
    I most want to say ILY. I did say it once, about 8 months ago, and he shyly responded “me too”.

    It just feels sooooo strange to not say it, especially after our intimiate time together. How can I respect his desire to take it slow and still get my needs met? I’m afraid to say it, because if he doesn’t say it back, it will hurt so much.
    Thanks, Nicole”

    Here’s my answer:

    The “problem” is not about saying I love you. A woman who feels like a Rock Star Free Spirit can say and do anything.

    The problem comes with wanting to hear I love you back.

    So – now we’re into Giving to Get.

    We’re saying ILY in hopes of jogging him to say it back.

    We’re hinting.

    It’s not a genuine, freely given, spontaneous ILY…it has strings attached.

    And that’s where the problem is.

    So – can you work within yourself to be able to say I love you freely? Without strings? Without pressure? Without the “vibe” of wanting to hear it back?

    Pretty hard, isn’t it. Challenging – to say the least. Just forming the words brings up fear – even after 20 years of marriage.

    Fear that he won’t say it back…he’ll say “I know,” or nod his head or say “Thank you” or “That feels good.”

    Fear that rejection of some kind and a slap in the face await you the moment you open your mouth and say those three words.

    If, in a moment of passion, you feel it, and you don’t give a flying fig if he says it back, then blurt it out! Blurting is a sensational thing to do at almost all times!

    And if you just can’t – if it feels wrong, if you sense that you want him to say it back, you just want to get that ILY ball rolling…

    …how about this?:

    “Hi, I have a problem, and I need your help. I want to tell you I love you. I want to say it, and I can feel myself holding back because I’m afraid I’ll push some buttons in you because – honestly, truly, being totally honest with you and myself – even more than wanting to say I love you, I want to hear YOU say i love you to me…and it’s just a scary thing to even think of saying. So…It doesn’t feel good to hint around or say I love you hoping you’ll say it back..so this is sort of un-romantic, but I just want to tell you I love you, and yes, I wish I could hear it back, but that’s not why I want to say it…so I’m going to say it and then walk away, so that I can feel good about not having any expectations…”

    Then you say…”I love you” and smile, and turn around and walk away!

    Pretty straightforward.

    You say exactly what you feel. No confusion, no hinting, and no standing around waiting for a reaction.

    After you blurt out “I love you” – you can even say,

    “Now I’m feeling confused, so I’m going to walk away, and it’s not because I don’t want to be here with you, I just don’t want to feel like I’m expecting some kind of answer, because I’m not. I just love you.”

    And then you smile and walk away.

    To see how this works on YOU…try it in your living room.

    Imagine your man standing in front of you, and try the Speech.

    See how you feel.

    You might laugh.

    When you actually deliver the speech, he might laugh, too…

    Let me know how this feels…

    Love, Rori

  124.  #124Kristine on April 22, 2013 at 7:56 pm


    Planning is leaning forward and a masculine activity. Even though he may seem excited now, it could push him away over time. Why not just state what you want and let him plan how to get it.

    CHOOSING whether to accept his invitation to dinner, his plan, or whatever, is feminine. Why not ask him next time he asks you out, what he has planned? Before you accept the date? I would ask for details of time and place, etc., before giving him an answer. That way you can decide if that feels good to you or not. And if you don’t know right away how you feel about his idea, just ask for some time to think about it. Once you know how you FEEL, tell him how his plan makes you feel…good or not, as well as what you want to do or don’t want to do. Then don’t forget to add “what do you think?”


  125.  #125Zia on April 22, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    I am feeling nervous! Entered a competition on the radio and was one of the three girls picked to go on a coffee date with the winning guy haha. It’s a blind date, and the guy will pick which date he liked best and that girl will win a prize.

    I am just looking forward to practising my Rori tools, having fun on a coffee date and hey, if I win, that’s just a bonus! 😉

  126.  #126Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    @Zia 124 that sounds fun! Have an awesome time!

  127.  #127Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    This is hard work… I’ve spent the better part of the day allowing my emotions to have their freedom… crying, fearing and then allowing the fear to turn into tears…circle dating…. This work isn’t for the faint at heart for sure. Leaning back for me isn’t the easiest thing… and allowing and not trying to explain …. I’m hardly getting any work done.. but I’m learning to take care of me… which I’ve needed to do for a long long time. Whooohoo! wonderful group of women…

  128.  #128Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    OMG Zia that sounds so exciting. So cool that you went for it on the radio competition! That takes guts, girl! Way to go! Fingers crossed that you win! 🙂

  129.  #129Liquid Light on April 22, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    But yeah, even if you dont’ win, its very cool that you are putting yourself out there, playing in the ring, and going for it!!! woohoooo!!!

  130.  #130Vi on April 22, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Moving Magic I feel mesmerized by your 116 post . I want to feel like a jewel! 🙂 thanks for sharing, I would like to ‘ borrow’ this visualization for myself… 🙂
    Shimmies! 🙂

  131.  #131Turquoise on April 22, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I broke up with Sweetheart tonight and feel completely fine about it. We haven’t slept together in months, and the lack of physical intimacy makes it much easier to think rationally. We talked tonight and he told me that they are not going to proceed with the divorce until his social security comes through so he won’t lose his health insurance. Which, I do understand…. Yet, he told he he won’t file because he can’t afford it… And looking at it from her perspective, he moved on, met someone else, wants to plan a future… But won’t pay the couple hundred bucks to make it legal… Was a turn off. he told me that he’s not interested in quitting smoking now and if that was a problem for me, then maybe we should stop now. I said maybe we should then, because its been almost 5 months, I’ve been patient, he said how much he wanted to quit and I have always said we couldn’t progress to living together, etc. unless he did. I told him it was more than just the smoking, it was how it fekt that he wouldnt sacrifice this or try for our relationship, what else eouldnt he be willing to do…. and he said he could turn it around and ask me tge same thing… i replied that i feel i bring a lot to the table and have a lot to offer. that im open to the possibility of all his health issues, financial situation, etc. and was willing to deal with that. he just said he didnt want an ultimatum and i said i understood and felt it best not to continue at this point. think he was surprised, he asked where we go from here and if we could still talk, hangout, etc. he wants to help me with some stuff he’d promised… I said we could try and be friends, but that it would be different than how much we talk now. He said he would leave it in my corner. I’m disappointed he’d rather smoke than build a life with me… But glad to have my boundary and stick to it. I’m sure it’s not easy to quit, but he actually said he doesn’t want to at this point in his life, so perfect opportunity to test my boundary and find a man who is a better match. I have felt this way for awhile now… Just kept hanging on, as he was making some changes. I haven’t missed him, haven’t felt the same in awhile. I know I’m still emotional about my mom, yet I’ve felt this urgency to stop wasting time and get on with my life. I don’t want to burn bridges, but am taking space. I feel good.

  132.  #132Zia on April 22, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Turquoise: bigggg hugs too you, and i feel so proud of you standing by your boundaries 🙂

    I’m back from my coffee date! As much as I tried to be relaxed and open, I found myself blabbering on a lot and full of nerves. Never mind, it was a fun experience 🙂

  133.  #133Lisa on April 22, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    @turquoise… I hear you and I’d do the same… big hugs.. sending love to you… be kind to yourself… Your amazing!

  134.  #134Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 3:53 am


    You sound wonderful. Your posts always sound so strong and calm.

  135.  #135Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 4:08 am

    Liquid Light,

    Regarding what you said about family, friends, and even strangers on the internet, giving advice and coming to conclusions about your relationship without knowing the complexities, I can relate.

    I think people do see things through the lens of their own experience, and often forget that when giving feedback to others. I think people also have an urge to solve, or protect you, or make your pain go away, and so they make what can sometimes come across as extreme recommendations or rush to judgment.

    I try to weigh literally all advice and input – no matter how important it seems, or how authoritative the source. I sit with it for a while if need be. Most importantly, I see how it makes me feel, and I note if something resonates deeply with me.

    For me personally, when it comes to my relationships, I know something has to resonate deeply with me, otherwise I can’t make it happen. I agree with you that your own gut is the most important guide you have.

    For example with myself, with D, the fact that he’s reacted with an extreme temper many times in the past sometimes I think makes it easy for people to jump to hasty conclusions about him. Now I agree, it still hurts and upsets me and so I don’t really see a relationship between us at this point as a possibility. But yet recently I was spending time with him, a whole day in fact, and right at the end of it, after we’d picked up dinner, he got huffy, I can’t even remember about what. And he stormed off to his room. And instead of losing it in tears, as I may have done in the past, I said “I feel very confused. Will you Skype me later to let me know that everything’s ok” and he said yes. And sure enough, much later, at about midnight, he sent me a Skype message to let me know that everything was ok.

    My hurt and upset that I might otherwise have felt evaporated, and I felt fine, good even.

  136.  #136Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 5:49 am

    lots of fear kept me up almost all night.. tried to be grateful for my fear. kept thinking about “M”. I know it isn’t good… don’t know what to do… I’m so exhausted… to the point of being totally on adrenaline and pushing myself to take care of my child. Not getting much done. Trying to lean and be open and vulnerable when I’m with him. He responds to it. Doing things I love like gardening and playing. Still I’m unsettled about things. Won’t see him until Wed night.. seems like a long time to be able to rest. Fear and crying, lots of it… Wish I didn’t have to be feminine and could just say ” I need to talk” be honest and open and myself. To put myself at ease and know where things are going so I can rest and sleep. Part of me wants so to give up… I’m so tired and tired of crying, I don’t know if I’m strong enough to do this. Is it me? Is it him or both? Just want to be rested and happy… I love my growth.. but too much for me now… Just need to cry… not time to sleep…

  137.  #137Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 7:00 am

    I was catching up on all the posts from last night and wish I would have been here.

    Mostly because I want to give Liquid Light a huge hug. What you’ve posted in 78…I’ve been there and I know how much I was hurting. Sending vibes of peace to your heart today.

    Kristine – 79 – Sometimes I think men need to hear the words “I love you” first as much as we do. I think the key is, as Dominique says, having no expectations when you say it. And as Feminine Woman says…saying it from your heart can change things. The first time it is ever said in a relationship should, in my opinion, come from the man (although I said it first to J…in the middle of a huge argument…so it CAN work out…I just don’t recommend my approach) but after that very first time, I think guys love hearing us spontaneously tell them we love them. At least J does. I know when I say it, I’m not expecting a response and am just saying what I feel and when I feel it because sometimes, when it comes directly from our hearts, a feeling message can absolutely be about him.

    Dominique – 95 – “I think the world might very well have fewer problems if more people were having more good sex.” – OMG….YES!!!!!

    Elsie – 109 – Re planning. J and I don’t make many plans (except travel plans but then have no plans once we get to a place – more than once we didn’t even have a hotel and decided to just “wing it”). Can you get past this man’s inability to plan ahead so much and instead, bask in the moments of pure happiness when on those occasions where he has no plans, you still get an amazing night? I think sometimes it is a lot more fut to just go on an adventure and have no plans and no expectations and just enjoy the minutes. I think it is quite possible your man is like this too. If you can get past the lack of planning, my guess is you will have a lot of surprisingly fantastic times ahead. 🙂

    I have to get to work…hopefully will have time to log on later today.

    Much Love,

  138.  #138Syreena on April 23, 2013 at 7:09 am

    239: seahorse.

    “Feeling messages for the doc………………. I feel worried about you touching my face. Please be patient. If i not I’m probably going to either run screaming from your office or I pop you on the nose……. No? hahahahahahahahhaha!!!!! laughing out loud at that one!!! Omg could you imagine??

    so nervous, but laughing helps”

    hahaha, the resonates with me as that is what I would say. lol. I tend not to have much of a filter i just say my thoughts out loud not caring what other people think until afterwards.

    I feel really wary about doctors as in the past I felt very pressured and disrespected by them. This all actually goes deeper though as that is also how I constantly felt with my parents and others.

    It feels truly horrible, awful, not to be respected and allowed choices over ones own like and body and to have other people force me to do what think is best. Do as your told attitude the doctor, dentist knows best.
    Actually in reality they don’t. Most don’t question anything and are just parroting what they have learned or been told.

  139.  #139Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 7:36 am

    @Zia – 121, 122, 123 – WOW. Thank you for posting those articles – they were what I needed to read right now for my situation. THANK YOU – and I”m glad you had fun on your blind date!!!!!

    @Kristine – I’m not sure if you know my whole situation. LOL. And yes, I did ask him what he had planned. And yes, it felt fine, so I accepted. And yes, I always ask him what he thinks. I’m big into the Queens Code and that is part of her philosophy as well. I’m not upset and we had a great time. That wasn’t really what I was asking hehe… but thank you. He has planned EVERYTHING for over a year now really. But this one thing was mine to plan, so I am and I had fun doing it – I just wanted him to be more excited about it and gushy, and LOL – almost girly haha – does that make sense? LOL.

    @Turquoise – WOW. Good for you and big hugs. You didnt ask for any advice or opinions, but I would just gently say that maybe you could consider doing no contact at this point. It will make it easier for you and give him the space he needs away from you to do the work he needs to do to see if he is ready to make the changes that he needs to make in order to build a life with you or not. Plus it gives you a huge break to make dating new guys easier, etc. But CONGRATS on your boundaries and sticking to them. I think taht you are right. He isnt willing to do very very small things like pay small amounts of money, stop smoking etc.

    I heard something once….that in order for a relationship to work, people have to go outside their comfort zones, in order to make other people happy and accomodate others needs. And that only works if BOTH people are doing it….

    @Mercedes – I have to say I GENUINELY look forward to reading all your posts. They always resonate with me!!!! Yes, you are right. I am much more of a “planner” than him. But then that makes me have negative voices that say….oh, if he cared about you then he would have planned something. Which of course is not ture, but it sort of feels that way, because that is what *I* would do….does that make sense? And yes, we just went to the bookstore, but had a FABULOUS time. 🙂 Seriously – we walked around for about 3 hours, doing who knows what and cracking up and kissing and hugging. LOL.

  140.  #140Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 7:49 am

    Wow Turquoise. I feel so proud of you. That felt like firmly putting a stake in the ground, standing up for yourself.

    In as much as I don’t resonate with the thinking that he is choosing smoking over because I know people who have been struggling with quitting for years, I feel such great respect for you and all you have done to get to a place where you are so sure about your non-negotiables and what you want in your life. Brava to you.

  141.  #141Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 7:49 am

    Wow Turquoise. I feel so proud of you. That felt like firmly putting a stake in the ground, standing up for yourself.

    In as much as I don’t resonate with the thinking that he is choosing smoking over the relationship, because I know people who have been struggling with quitting for years, I feel such great respect for you and all you have done to get to a place where you are so sure about your non-negotiables and what you want in your life. Brava to you.

  142.  #142Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Zia life is about learning, growing and evolving. Mistakes are a part of the process of life. So you know what, you noticed you were feeling nervous and blabbering too much? Yayy you for noticing. Awareness is where change begins. Next date you can prepare yourself by visualizing the most confident person you know, become that person and make your mantra “I radiate confidence”.

  143.  #143Zara on April 23, 2013 at 8:07 am

    OMG! It happened right this second!

  144.  #144Zara on April 23, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Marriage for all has just been voted in France,I am watching the french live public senate TV chanel.

  145.  #145Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 8:18 am

    Zara what does that mean?

  146.  #146Zara on April 23, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Elsie 139

    Zara posted these articles written by Rori. I feel delighted to read that they talk to you.
    And Zia is the poster who went on a blind date.

    Two different persons.


  147.  #147Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 8:23 am

    @Elsie I loved this “I heard something once….that in order for a relationship to work, people have to go outside their comfort zones, in order to make other people happy and accomodate others needs. And that only works if BOTH people are doing it….” Thanks!

    @Zara that is totally AWESOME!!! I love that.. go France!

  148.  #148Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 8:34 am


  149.  #149Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Thanks Mercedes!…I am feeling better today.

  150.  #150Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Elsie: That makes complete sense. We all have different ways we show love and many times if we aren’t being shown love the same way we show it then we get confused or hurt. The 5 Love Languages details this out so beautifully. Even though what you’re seeing/feeling/saying makes sense, I still encourage you to consciously make an attempt to allow him to love you in the way that he loves you rather than in the way that you love him. 🙂

    Much Love,

  151.  #151Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Well this was kind of profound. I like it. 🙂 It feels good to like something I wrote. lol

    ” allow him to love you in the way that he loves you rather than in the way that you love him. ”

    LL: YAY! I’m so happy you are better now!

    Much Love,

  152.  #152Zara on April 23, 2013 at 9:00 am


    Hello 🙂
    I have been thinking of your mother.

    “For all” means we are all equal within the law, therefore the gender of the candidates to marriage can not stop a city mayor from signing the usual legal marriage.

    The new born law says every city mayor in France has the legal right to marry homosexual couples if the said mayor feels in alignment with such legal act. If he does not, then he does not have to do it himself. Any of his deputy who feels in alignment with it can do it. ( I wonder about the reality of the freedom of choice for the deputies in some cities, but well…).

    Anyway, there are enough city mayors in France who are happy with this law, so starting right now, homosexuals can plan their weddings! The practical side of the law will be dealt with by the month of June which should be when the first weddings should be celebrated.

  153.  #153Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Thanks Zara.

    The new scan showed the spot at the same size as 3 months ago so they have decided to watch it for another 6 months.

  154.  #154Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 9:09 am


    Yeah and when I was young, my mom got me a “Sally Doll” (Sally’s not my real name but anyway she named it after me.) It had two sides, on one side was a happy face, and on the other side was a sad crying face. Whenever I was upset, she would switch it over to the crying face.

    She really had a problem with emotion and we have always done battle over this. It makes her so uncomfortable and still does to this day. Emotion = weakness in her mind. Finally realizing that its her problem, not mine. But what a sucky thing to do to manipulate your child like that. Plus I was the only female in a family of four kids and with a mother who couldn’t express emotions and wasn’t comfortable with my expressing them, it was tough to find a safe outlet for this. Luckily my father is more emotional.

    Really strange but I haven’t thought about that doll at all until now.

  155.  #155Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Elsie – 109 – My first thoughts are that you are slipping into expectations and not just in action from him, also if behavior.

    I would love for you too look for his excitement being shown in maybe a different way than you are accustomed, different than your reaction/response. It could be subtle, a gleam in his eye, a soft smile.

    The other stuff, eg. the flowers, though you may love this, look for HIS way of showing you appreciation and appreciate this even more. When he does bring flowers. gush, melt, tell him how much you love flowers. It will make those time feel all the more special to you when they come about as well.

    I used to love flowers too, still do, yet K is not much of a flower giver, so when he does bring them, it feel all that much more to me.


  156.  #156Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 9:23 am

    @Indigo 135

    I try to weigh literally all advice and input – no matter how important it seems, or how authoritative the source. I sit with it for a while if need be. Most importantly, I see how it makes me feel, and I note if something resonates deeply with me.

    For me personally, when it comes to my relationships, I know something has to resonate deeply with me, otherwise I can’t make it happen. I agree with you that your own gut is the most important guide you have.

    YES!!!! Me too! I need to trust my own heart and believe in myself. When I waiver and doubt myself based on someone else’s opinion is when I get into trouble. Believe! I love that from the Secret!

  157.  #157Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Elsie – And another thing about planning. It can be a form of control. I used to feel much like this. Having everything planned out made me feel safe and secure.

    K is just NOT a planner. Aside from early dates, much of what we did and do now is not planned. And I learned to LOVE this. Going with the flow, being open to what is and what could be keeps me in the moment. You can very well miss out on SO much otherwise. It can feel exciting.

    Sure you may find yourself worrying now and then, falling into anxiety when things aren’t neatly laid out, and usually this comes up when other things in your life feel out of control in some way.

    When you become aware of this arising, you can laugh at yourself or at least feel amused, and you can do your best to talk yourself down and be back in the moment, TRUSTING that all will be well, maybe even better that that.


  158.  #158Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 9:36 am

    LLiquid the story about the doll felt really sad to read as a small child’s mind could have taken it as saying something is wrong with you. I guess though that she was doing the best she knew how as your emotions, plus everyone else’s, at the time might have been weighing on her. I would encourage you, now that it has come back to you, to look for ways that the experience built your resilience, tenacity and strength.

  159.  #159Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 9:51 am

    @FW Exactly, the message in my mind was clear – there was something wrong with me because of my emotions and inability to “cope”. I’ve always felt that from my Mom, that I wasn’t good enough or something in her eyes. Now I realize that it was her issue and that emotions are positive (this blog has helped a lot with that!) I don’t take her as seriously now I guess.

  160.  #160seahorse on April 23, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Syreena- Good Morning!

    I am nodding my head. Yep, had that with other docs in the past. I didn’t use feeling messages before and now that I am feeling MY BEAUTIFUL feeelings,all of them, I speak and feel differently. It feels good to have patience with myself and wait to see what comes up. I notice so many times during the day that my body is tensing and then catch it……….breathe…….. FEEL IT,then love on it, look around and think to myself ‘what triggered that?’. Then move on with loving on my day.

    I laughed in the car on the way home. I was afraid of old stuff. New tools, new day:) and grammy’s voice in the back of my mind………… “you’re borrowing trouble there young lady”…….. hahahahahahaa! Thank you Grammy!!! What we think on, grows. Think the good thoughts:)

  161.  #161seahorse on April 23, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Liquid light- I love your name, when I read it I can close my eyes and see it. Awesome, thanks. My mom did the ‘Who do you think you are little miss high and mighty’. It’s not so bad as it used to be, I work on it. I feel it even now as I write. I see me taking my little girls hand, standing up with her and saying Yes, we matter, Proudly and with a saucy tilt to our chins………….. that feels soooo great!!! And I can feel anything I want to feel and it’s beautiful. I love my journey and am grateful that you’re here Liquid Light. I picture you with a Sally doll that has thousands of different faces and you getting to play with them all, and knowing that they are all beautiful and YOU! Tally ho!!!!!!!!!

  162.  #162Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 10:30 am

    I feel like throwing up… and jumping off a bridge… I just got upset with my child from lack of sleep…and I don’t think I can go on like this anymore… I love this work..but I don’t know how much more I can handle not being able to just talk, like I talk, be who I am.. honest, loving and open. Trying to follow the rules of being feminine. Too much pressure for someone that is already to the limit.. it’s enough being in a new relationship and all the fear and anxiety that goes with it, dealing with a passive/aggressive Asperger’s ex that is the father of my child, my own business and homeschooling, trying to be a good mom, plus schedules and dating… trying to keep the vibe up for “M” so he feels inspired and then having to question everything I do and say and try really hard to be feminine… I just want to go to him and say ” I need to talk please” and cry… and let it out.. be me.. I feel I’m having to wait for him to come see me and then speak the best I can in feelings which doesn’t always happen and until then I’m in a state of emotional mess and not sleeping. I just don’t know how to do it… I want to so bad, I love this work.. I love him, wish that was enough. I’m breaking in half…trying to do it all… it’s a lot to keep up with… I wish I could handle more… I feel like I could collapse and that might feel good. I’m so scared….

  163.  #163Linda G on April 23, 2013 at 10:31 am

    The comments on this block have me really triggred; the criticism and rejection of scenarios offered as support being received as condescension or ill given advice, feels like they are meant for me.

    I have been working with Rori’s programs on and off for awhile, and although I rarley post, my intent has been to relate and to be supportive as well as to connect.

    I don’t expect direct response, I just needed to get this off my chest because I feel kind of wounded and it’s tainting my whole day.

    Everyone feels fragile sometimes, you know…

  164.  #164Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 10:42 am


    I know when I have felt that way is when it feels particularly good to just give in, just let yourself be and feel and do and say whatever it is you are longing to.


  165.  #165Sweetie on April 23, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Hi Ladies!

    I have a strange question… my bf and I broke up a little over 6 weeks ago (we were dating for 8 years) and I have a package that was accidentially sent to his house(we use to live together and I thought I changed the shipping address to have it delivered to my new place, but it default to my billing address which I havent changed yet). I texted him yesterday to ask if he had it there and he texted me back that he was raking and woudl call me wehn he got in, but he never called. Which is fine that is his choice, but I just want him to leave the package in the mailbox so I can pick it up during lunch or after work and it seems like he is ignoring the question. I don’t want to text him again about it becasue I feel like I am being needy, but I want my package, What shoudl I do?

  166.  #166Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Sweetie the package is yours. You are not being needy, you want what you paid for.

  167.  #167seahorse on April 23, 2013 at 11:48 am

    If you’ve been putting up with confusing behavior from a man, and it doesn’t feel good, I know how you feel.

    I’ve posted in my own blog many of my most embarrassing, humiliating stories, and how
    I stopped allowing that kind of “man who feels good but makes me feel
    bad” into my life – and I want to help other women stop allowing that kind of
    bad-feeling man into your life, too.

    Here’s a letter from Sheri, who’s going through that right now:

    “Dear Rori, I met a great guy…we clicked. two weeks of wonderful.
    and then gone….he left to go back to his ex. then two weeks later back
    to tell me he was sorry…that he made a mistake…..then I had to leave
    the state. While gone he was attentive for the first week via
    phone…..then poof…..he was gone…..went back to ex. Then he found me
    having fun and he just had to talk with me. he pleaded and begged for
    me to talk with him. He even cried that he was lost without me….and
    again….he had made a terrible mistake.

    This time he had put HER name on his body in two places with
    tattoos…….I put up with that. Then just as the first two dress
    rehearsals went…..viola……he was gone again.

    He calls now and I don’t answer the phone. I want my heart to be
    done but there is something about this guy I like…..or maybe something
    about me I dislike as this is really torture and punishment.

    What the heck is my problem? Sheri”

    Here’s my beginning answer and help for the HUGE issue Sheri brings up:

    Sheri, you’ve given yourself your own answer – and I’m going to just point it out:

    You say, “…this is really torture and punishment.”

    And – that’s it.

    You are drawn to men who torture and punish you.

    You are drawn to “punishment.”

    You feel, somewhere deep inside, that you DESERVE to be punished.

    It comes from habit – from the atmosphere in which you were raised
    where your WANTS were dismissed, in fact – where you were perhaps PUNISHED
    just for WANTING.

    It could have been subtle. People calling you “little miss high and
    mighty,” or rolling their eyes, or showing you by example that wanting
    something only gets you punished.

    And then we internalize that, make it a part of ourselves, so that
    everytime we do something nice for ourselves we feel ashamed and
    guilty. Every time we feel PLEASURE, we feel bad, and yucky and ashamed
    and guilty.

    And so we go out and punish ourselves. We’re accident-prone, or we
    go out and hire some guy to hit us over the head with his lack of love.

    AND – it can come from the only way you knew to protect yourself.

    In order to keep yourself emotionally, and for many of us physically, safe in BIG ways, you may have had to punish yourself in “small” ways.

    When you live thinking that the “other shoe” is ALWAYS about to
    DROP, you start dropping shoes yourself, in order to take the edge off
    the constant anxiety and feeling of dread.

    And when there are no shoes dropping, we can feel really SCARED of
    what’s about to happen. And so we CREATE the punishment we’re used to,
    the punishment we can tolerate, the punishment we think of as “us.”

    This guy is fine just the way he is. He’s working through stuff,
    he’s confused, he wants you – then he wants her. And know this — he
    doesn’t experience EITHER of you – you or his ex – as real people, with
    their own needs and desires. He sees both of you only in terms of what
    HE GETS.

    So, whichever one of you gives him the most of what he wants – sex,
    love, encouragement, fun, no pressure…that’s where he’ll land.

    He’s not a good guy. At least not now. He’s actually “Toxic” right
    now. And for many reasons (my Toxic Men program will help you
    terrifically with all of this) – you are attracted to, and attract
    Toxic Men.

    For right now – see how you like him because he punishes you. He
    keeps you off balance. He torments and tortures you. And there’s a part
    of you that WANTS this.

    There’s a part of you that feels most comfortable like this.

    Well – you deserve better. You deserve great things. Great love. Great devotion.

    Focus yourself on this, and love the part of you that wants
    punishment so she can no longer “run” you while you’re unaware of her.

    Now you know her. Embrace her, and tell her you’re in charge.

    You can read more of my ideas at


    Love, Rori

  168.  #168Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 11:54 am

    @ LInda 163

    I’m sorry that you feel so triggered and upset. I think you are referring to what I wrote.

    I guess this whole topic is a huge trigger for me since I feel like I’ve been given bad advice about my situation from people in my life and it really tainted everything.

    It was really the insinuation that I was responding to but truth be told, I read into things way too much so I’m sure that is what I was doing. Sigh. So its really my stuff that I have been triggered by not what anyone here said.

    I’m really sorry if what I posted made you feel badly. I feel rotten about this. I hope you accept my apology.

  169.  #169Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 11:57 am

    @Mercedes – I still encourage you to consciously make an attempt to allow him to love you in the way that he loves you rather than in the way that you love him. 🙂 I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS.

    I was just in a meeting. And I was thinking about how my mother would get SO MAD when people wouldnt have the reaction she wanted (which is the reaction SHE would have had.) I really disliked that about her. Now, ironically, I find myself doing the same thing.

    I think I’m doing it because if he had the reaction I wanted, it would SEEM like he loved me. But the REALITY is that he DOES love me……so why I am so hung up about a reaction.

    For example, another issue came up today with him. Its a long story but the bottom line is I wanted him to act or seem more disappointed about something that isnt going to happen. I sure he is disappointed, because he even texted me on his own last night to tell me that it wasnt oging to happen, and I could tell the whole reason he wrote it was because he wished it was going to happen.

    I guess I just want him to be a girl. LOL. And have the dramatic sadness etc. of a girl. But he isnt. He is a boy. He isnt a hairy girl – he is a completely different species. LOL.

    @Dominique – you are TOTALLY RIGHT. Its all about my expectations. Ugh. Will I ever ever ever not have them? I know they are wrong logically, but wow are they powerful.

    Again, I just want him to act and do exactly what I want exactly how I want it exactly when I want it…..is that too much to ask? LOL.

  170.  #170Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 11:59 am

    @Dominique – Elsie – And another thing about planning. It can be a form of control. I used to feel much like this. Having everything planned out made me feel safe and secure.

    YES. 1000% YES. I had something come up in my life with someone I loved, and it made me so fearful of the future, etc. it was years ago…..so I started trying to CONTROL everything I could. It made me feel safe.

    This is EXACTLY right on.

  171.  #171Linda G on April 23, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    LL, thank you

  172.  #172Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    @Lisa –

    You have so much going on *hugs*. I would take a huge time out. You need someone to pick up your pieces and help you out – and if he isnt there for you – then lets not worry about him right now. Maybe you can just take time out for you and for your child. Let this guy just be for now. Take it off your plate, you have enough right now. Stop worrying so much about him and wht to say or what not to say, just be you…..but have a life outside of him, involed in you and your child……and then if he wants to be part of that he can be.

    Its not about making him comfortable. Its about you being genuine and honest with your feelings. Its not about magic words. Its about honestly sinking into your feelings and expressing them. If you feel overwhlemed, then you can tell him that!!!

  173.  #173Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    @ Indigo 164

    really? oh that makes me feel so much less pressure… sigh… Thanks so much!!!! <3

  174.  #174Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Linda G: 🙂

  175.  #175Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    @ Elsie 172

    You made me cry… thanks so much! <3

    I'll work on letting him be…and letting him go…by mentally not focusing on him… so true!

    I also love this that you said in another post:

    "so I started trying to CONTROL everything I could. It made me feel safe. "

    I so relate to that… and I'm working on not needing to know the outcome of everything so I could feel safe… Big Hugs!

  176.  #176Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    @Lisa – I didnt mean to make you cry!!!! 🙂 I just know one of my friends said something to me once that was similar….she said “When is someone going to help YOU pick up YOUR pieces?” You are a giver. Rori says, its hard for a giver to just stop, but you have to. If you want to find a guy who is a giver, then you have HAVE HAVE to be able to receive. Which means, you have to stop DOING. So, just take a huge breath. Right now. And now shift the focus to you and your daughter. This guy will stay or he will go. Either way you will be fine. FINE. You will be fine.

    That is the outcome. I am already telling it to you. You WILL be fine.

  177.  #177Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm


    It’s also possible to consider expressing these emotions even in front of him, even if its messy, and uncontrolled, emotional wreck etc. It is *your truth*.

    Just a thought.


  178.  #178Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Lisa: 🙁 I’m sorry you are hurting so much! I know for me, I sometimes just plain have to lean forward and say what I need to say (and many times that would be what I’m thinking and not always what I’m feeling) and it feels right and good. I think that’s a little outside of what Rori teaches with the exception of the fact that she also teaches us to do what feels right. I don’t personally see a problem with the words “I need to talk to you”…no problem with those at all.

    That said, I am all about communicating with J without drama. That doesn’t mean I can’t cry or communicate my anger but all the while he is hearing how I’m feeling, I am doing it in a way that makes him feel safe enough to stay with me in the conversation. Too much drama will make him want to retreat. The point of having those difficult conversations is to keep him in it with you (so you both can grow together with it). J does the same for me and I believe that is what has allowed us to grow into a relationship free from conflict and drama. We have adult conversations where we are free to support each other’s thoughts and feelings…that’s a good place to be and in my mind, it all starts with communicating thoughts and feelings in a drama free and supportive way.

    I wish this for you and I hope you, even as you practice the tools, remain authentic and always true to yourself. No matter how many tools you learn, if you use them to correct or change behaviors while still keeping the YOU that is YOU…I believe they will only serve to lift you up and support you while enhancing and growing the parts of you that your man loves.

    Big hug today!

    Linda G: Whew! I have been there. I’ve said things that have hurt others (although most of the time that has been unintentional) and I have heard things that felt like horrible advice directed at me (although again, I’m certain most of it was not meant to hurt). I don’t know what to say except I hope you can feel better about this. I believe in taking pieces of advice and applying only those that resonate with me (and I hope that is how advice I give is taken as well). For you as well….huge hugs today and always!!

    Much Love,

  179.  #179Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    One really important thing to remember is that you are you, and other people are not you. So everyone will see things in their unique way. Everyone will respond to things and situations in their unique way. Everyone will attack a problem in their unique way. And everyone will love in their unique way.

    It doesn’t it or them wrong. It just makes them different, and this is beautiful. Life would be terribly boring if we were all the same.

    I’ve mentioned this many times before, yet it bears repeating plus there are some newcomers here.

    Just because your man doesn’t express love the way YOU would, eg. he doesn’t say – I love you – or he doesn’t write you little notes or whatever it is YOU would do if you were in his shoes, this doesn’t mean he isn’t head over heels, infatuated with, crazy about, adoring, or cherishing of you.

    Remember how I’ve said to look for the ways HE shows his love whether it be checking your tires are good or the house is locked or your lawn mowed or you have your favorite coffee in the morning or he touches you leg just so or looks at you with that special only for you look or whatever it is.

    I want you to look for these things, love these things, come to appreciate these things maybe even more than the things you think you want from him.

    He may very well be showing to you and giving to you FAR more than you realized.

    This all ties in with expectations. Letting these go along with working to remain as open an curious about him an your entire world is key to a life of happiness, alone and/or with a man.

    And Elsie, it takes as long as it takes, and even then you may find an expectation or two creeping in now and then. Yet you can recognize them for what they are let them go far more quickly and easily with time.


  180.  #180Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    The words “I need to talk to you” hit different people’s ears differently and being aware of what the listener is hearing could help with making the conversation less intense by choosing words like “I feel something weighing heavily on my heart and it would make me happy if you could listen to me” or something to let him know that you need a heart to heart talk.

  181.  #181Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    @Femininewoman OMG! that sounds wonderful b/c it is so true… something is weighing heavy on my heart… and I would be happy if he would listen… Thanks!!! that feels right…

    and my question is… do I need to wait until tomorrow night? Or is it leaning to ask to come over to his house for the talk?

    Oh what a blessing this group is to me… much love <3

  182.  #182Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    @ Elsie… oh dear. you made me cry, that was a wonderful gift!!!… you opened me right up… I love that… it was perfect, what I needed to hear…I felt loved! I cry from joy too and from touching my heart… I’m a mush really <3 THANK YOU!

  183.  #183Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    @ liquid light thanks so much! <3 very true!

    Hugs back!

    I have to confess I was worried I get kicked off the forum for opening myself up and being vulnerable like I have… I can't express how my heart feels right now from the amazing support and love I feel from you all… I'm receiving and it feels good! Thank YOU! much love to you all… <3

  184.  #184Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    @Sweetie 165

    Wow, 6 weeks after an 8 year relationship. Have you expressed everything that you needed to about this breakup?

    Forgive me if I am stepping too far but you sound suspiciously unemotional for having gone through something like that so recently. I’m just speaking from experience here because I know I really suppressed my feelings initially and numbed myself after going through something similar.

    It’s very important to express all of your feelings fully when going through something as major as this. Maybe you have but just wanted to mention it.


  185.  #185Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    @seahorse 161

    Thanks, that’s so nice of you say that about my moniker! 🙂

    I love what you said about the doll too, that it has a whole bunch of faces/facets that I can embrace! Love that!!! 🙂

  186.  #186Shar Lean Way Back on April 23, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Kristine, I feel your passion for Rori’s tools and you seem to be able to work them well 🙂

  187.  #187Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Dominique: “And Elsie, it takes as long as it takes, and even then you may find an expectation or two creeping in now and then. Yet you can recognize them for what they are let them go far more quickly and easily with time.” – This is something that I’ve learned over time too…and it did take time. I think it’s all about listening to ourselves…our true selves. And as you’ve taught me, much of that listening comes from paying attention to our bodies including any shifts, pains or pressures.

    Much Love,

  188.  #188Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 2:34 pm


    “I feel something weighing heavily on my heart and it would make me happy if you could listen to me” or something to let him know that you need a heart to heart talk.

    I really like how that sounds!

  189.  #189Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    @Dominique – and Mercedes – both of you always to my rescue. 🙂

    I just want so badly for him to jump up and down with excitement. To me that FEELS like he is excited and happy. When I dont get that – it feels like he is not. Ugh. I hate that feeling.

    And today, not only did he not seem super disappointed about the event, but he didnt really “take the bait” when I sort of had a neat idea for a replacement idea. Ugh. And he didnt come up with anything else.

    Just Ugh. I know its expectations. But it FEELS so awesome when he acts enthusiastically. I guess when his emotions dont seem on his sleeve, then I dont know what they really are.

    I know he loves me. I just want more gushy outward signs of it – sometimes – if that makes sense?

    Also about expectations….he KNOWS I LOVE flowers. Why oh why wouldnt he get them for me when he knows that would provide me happiness? Thats what I dont understand…….help me understand that – if he knows something would provide me reassurance, security, a feeling of love….why wouldnt he do that if he loved me? #confused.

  190.  #190Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    I stopped cried and read more posts…felt loved, it made me feel … really feel deeply… connected to the women and myself… it felt good to have “him” way in the background.. relief.. I wrote my feeling messages down… then went for a walk… its beautiful today… and it hit me… in my quiet time of walking…. I want to run to him (when I’m in pain from not feeling and starting to feel is uncomfortable) so he can make the pain go away…… when I’m with him I feel I can bring things up in the moment and that feels good but I notice I don’t sometimes? That feels like sabatoge… when I’m not with him, I have to wait until our next date and that feels hard…to hold it all in longer. Omg… that sounds like an addiction.. and withdrawls… oh dear… is it true? I don’t like to feel bad… I want him to make it all better.. just by being with me.. ooops that sounds so co-dependent… Still contemplating it.. but anyone have ideas? experiences?

  191.  #191Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    @Lisa – you wrote… I want to run to him (when I’m in pain from not feeling and starting to feel is uncomfortable) so he can make the pain go away.

    You have the ability and capacity to make your own pain go away. You need to nurture and love yourself enough. He cant do this for you. He cant heal you. You need to heal yourself so you are healthy enough to be in a healthy relationship. He cant “fix” you. The wonderful thing about that is you dont have to wait for the next time to see him…..you can start right this second.

    And yes…..it does sound co-dependent to me to need someone else for fixing you. It also sounds like you are taking the focus off of fixing you and putting it on him….when you will see him…..what will you say…..none of that really matters, but it is distracting you from the hard work you need to do to feel WORTHY of being loved, which you are.

  192.  #192Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Elsie: “And today, not only did he not seem super disappointed about the event, but he didnt really “take the bait” when I sort of had a neat idea for a replacement idea.” – Maybe he can’t take the bait when you are being the boy. Maybe he doesn’t like it that much when you row the boat. Maybe he would rather you allow him to be the boy and doing the rowing in ways that make him comfortable instead of in ways you want him to do it.

    And with regard to flowers…J knows I like flowers too. He had experiences with his ex-wife where she was less than grateful (to the point of rude) about his choice in flowers. He doesn’t buy them anymore. He bought me one about a month or so ago (first time in the 8 years we’ve been together) and I almost fell off my chair! He hates the feeling of buying flowers. I love flowers so I buy them for myself whenever I want them.

    Now…my question to you: Do you love flowers and do flowers make you happy or do you love receiving flowers from a man and that’s what makes you happy? If flowers make you happy, then I would suggest you buy yourself some. If receiving flowers from a man makes you happy and you are with a man who doesn’t like to buy flowers (for whatever reason) then maybe you need to ask yourself if you can still be happy without it.

    Some guys don’t do the things or react in the ways we want them to. Can you live with that forever (if he never changes) or is it important enough to you that you want to change him? If it is important enough for you that you want to change him then you might consider finding a man who reacts in ways that you prefer. Changing someone is near impossible.

    Personally, I think you should go buy yourself some flowers and lean back allowing your man to be the man he is in anyway he feels comfortable. But that’s just me. 🙂

    Much Love,

  193.  #193Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    I think that excitement can be an indicator. Im not saying it is or it isn’t in this case but it *can* be. To me, I would be on the lookout for this, it *could* be a red flag or it could just be a personality thing.

    I know that I was tested by my ex to see what my reactions would be. I believe he tested me, if that’s the right word, to gauge my reactions because reactions are authentic.

  194.  #194Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Elsie: I love this advice you gave Lisa: “The wonderful thing about that is you dont have to wait for the next time to see him…..you can start right this second. And yes…..it does sound co-dependent to me to need someone else for fixing you. It also sounds like you are taking the focus off of fixing you and putting it on him…”

    Do you think you could apply that to buying flowers and making plans for yourself to do fun things (inviting him along for the ride of your life of course)? Taking the focus off of you and putting in on him (asking yourself why he doesn’t show emotion or feel disappointed enough or buy flowers) doesn’t serve you either. You could consider focusing on how YOU are feeling disappointed and how much YOU love flowers and you could take care of all that for yourself and not need him to fix it for you…


    Much Love,

  195.  #195Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    But yeah he could just be sensing that you have an expectation of him being excited and then reacting to that and acting not excited on purpose. It’s just human nature. No one likes to be controlled or manipulated.

  196.  #196Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    @Mercedes – Please live near me so we can go have a glass of wine. LOL.

    I agree with all that you said. I’m sure I was “being the boy” (by the way that is a phrase that my friends and I have had for YEARS and it cracks me up that you just said that.) and offered something different. Ugh. Its so hard not to control when you are a control freak like me!!!

    I love flowers from a man to answer your question. I guess its not something I would break up over. Its just that I truly dont understand. If a relationship is about giving what another person needs/wants, and he has the ability to provide that – then why wouldnt he? It just doesnt make sense to me.

    For example, if he said, what does it for me is red lingerie. Ok – I dont think I look good in that lets say. But ok – fine. I’ll go get some and put it on – and there you go. Your needs met. I dont get it – and I dont need it – but whatever, I’ll do it for you.

    Same thing with flowers. He doesnt have to understand why I need them, he just has to care enough that I do need them. I tried to explain this the other week to him, and he just looked at me quizzically and said, I dont get it. But he HAS GOTTEN it before, because he has gotten me flowers one time, so he knew that was the “right” thing to do…..ugh.

    I dont want to change him. I just want to INSPIRE him to do what it is that I like, just like I do the things that he likes. I dont want to change him per se….at all. I just need to figure out more clearly about my expectations and whether or not they are healthy or just insane. LOL.

  197.  #197Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    @Mercedes – way to go – using my words against me LOL……that cracks me up. And of course, you are totally right. 🙂 I do need to put the focus on me more than him. I do have a problem with how people react to things. I get that from my mom. She truly believes that if a person doesnt react a certain way that they dont appreciate/love/etc.

    @Liquid Light – You probably hit the nail on the head. He isnt stupid. He probably realized that is the reaction that I wanted, and he didnt give it because it felt controlling to him. Perfect analysis.

  198.  #198Liquid Light on April 23, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Maybe its the same thing with the flowers?

  199.  #199Lisa on April 23, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    @Elsie 190 oh yeah I know that is what I was saying.. I totally know it is co-dependent.. and an addiction.. to run from the sorrow..

    But I must say that I fix me all the time.. I work on me all the time and have continuously for 20 years…I love it. However that in itself can be
    an issue if I think ” I need to be fixed”. I don’t need to take the focus off me to avoid fixing me… I seem to need to take the pain away from how painful it is to really feel the deep pain of having not loved myself all those years.. it’s kind of a deep grief.. I think..

    But you are correct, in that when I’m feeling that much pain and having the need to have it vanish by way of anything, that is the time for me to sit with me… and not run… It’s hard for sure…

    However “M” knows I don’t want him to fix me.. and I’ve never ask him to… I do though want him to hold me when I cry and relieve some of the pain…. that I guess is a debatable issue.. on whether or not that is co-dependent..

  200.  #200Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Elsie: I would love to have a glass of wine with you! Did I ever ask where you live? I travel sometimes and meeting up isn’t always out of my reach. 🙂

    Maybe you could inspire him by buying yourself some flowers and talking about how much you love them. I don’t know. Some guys just aren’t flower giving kind of guys.

    “If a relationship is about giving what another person needs/wants” – I don’t think it is. I think it is about loving unconditionally…even if they don’t buy us stuff.

    “He doesnt have to understand why I need them, he just has to care enough that I do need them. ” – I don’t get it either. lol I think he does, absolutely DOES care enough. He just doesn’t buy flowers very often and if it is something you really need, I think he would want to see you buying them for yourself so he could really understand how much you need them in your life. For me, buying me things is just his way of doing what he wants to do and it doesn’t have anything to do with what I need. I believe that if I needed something, I would care for it. J believes that too.

    Your love bought them for you once. Does he know how often you need them? Have you mentioned that you need them once a week/month/year? Maybe, like me, he just truly doesn’t get it. I think if this is something you were to ask him for or, as you say, “I tried to explain this the other week to him”, it will become a chore that he has to do in order to prove his love to you and it won’t be coming from his heart. If the gift isn’t coming from his heart, is it really an example of him showing you he cares or is it more of an example of his willingness to do what you tell him to do? For me, it wouldn’t prove a thing.

    Now…that touch on my hand when I least expect it or the spontaneous profession of love or that deep sigh he breathes when we finally curl up in each other’s arms at night right before we go to sleep or the fact that he sits in the middle of the couch when we watch movies so he can be close to me and touch me? Those are the most amazing displays of love and caring that a man can give.

    Gifts are gifts and generally done out of some sort of obligation or what society tells a man to do (like birthdays, Christmas and Valentine’s Day or to make up with a woman or…because…she…asked…) but that other stuff? That stuff is something natural…a pull if you will…that a man does to show we make him happy and his love for us cannot be denied.

    Please…come over…let’s discuss this in person. lol

    Much Love,

  201.  #201Zia on April 23, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Today I feel like I literally have to sit on my hands to stop myself from sending any texts or reaching out. When I last heard from my ex he spoke about some stuff he needs to go through on an emotional level and he’d let me know if it works out.

    The state that he is in right now is no good to me but sometimes I just feel unable to let him go. I have reminded myself that it’s not HIM that I need to let go of, it’s being treated badly, neglect, all the “bad stuff” that I need to let go. If he is willing and able to set up in the future after he’s gone through the stuff he needs to go though, then great. If not, I have to continue to focus on finding and doing things that make me happy.

    Have to ride out this “withdrawl” for now.

  202.  #202Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Elsie – 188 – Pressure. When a man feels pressure, he will resist whether it’s consciously or not. Let go of the expectation or flowers thus releasing the pressure, and you have a far better chance of getting what you want, but since you won’t be carrying any expectation, it will be the loveliest feeling surprise.

    Some men just don’t get all excited like we do, many don’t. YET they love to see yours, and to see more of this, they will do what it takes to see this again.


  203.  #203Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Lisa – 189 – He can’t make anything feel better, only you can. It can feel great having him there. It can feel better in his presence than not, yet he cannot fix anything for you. He can only enhance.


  204.  #204Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Elsie – Have you seen this one?



  205.  #205Dominique on April 23, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Here’s another good one about this.



  206.  #206Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Zia: I know how hard this is…take care of you. It will help…really, it will…

    Much Love,

  207.  #207Lori on April 23, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Hello Rori,
    I have a question/inquiry about Commitment Bluepring program. It is from CD#2, section 10. You talk about opening up in Relationships. You say it doesn’t mean that we have to say “I love you, I care for you, etc.”. We don’t have to say anything. It has to do with “furniture and the weather”. What do you mean by that? Where can I get more information about this. It seems that I don’t hear you talking about this again anywhere in the Commitment Blue print CD program. Are you talking about practicing Feng Shui?!
    Thank you very much for your help,

  208.  #208Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    @Dominique and Mercedes.

    Seriously. How much do I owe you? Because you two are better than any therapy ever. LOL!!!!

    Perfect. Perfect responses as per usual. EXACTLY what I needed to hear. Of COURSE I am pressuring him without realizing it. I need to set down the oars, and really look at what he is doing and giving me. Which, frankly, is a lot. Its more than he has ever given anyone in his life. I know that I truly *inspire* this man.

    Dominique I have read those articles, but I just read them again!!! And exactly spot on. I can tell you this. The word “flowers” is never coming out of my mouth again. If he never gives them to me, Im ok. Because I remember how he looks when he says he loves me and tears up….I remember how I only have to ask him one time for a light bulb, or to help with something…..I remember each time he has said to me how lucky he is that he gets to be with me. All of that was GENUINE. It wasnt contrived. It was REAL. I didnt ask for any of it – and I guarantee it feels better than flowers EVER will.

    Thank you both for reminding me of that. Thank you – seriously – THANK you.

    And Mercedes……I am hesitant to put where I live on the blog…..do you have a blog where I could email/write you? I thought you had a blog? I travel for work sometimes too – how awesome would it be if we could seriously meet up?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  209.  #209Zia on April 23, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Thank you Mercedes. I wish I could express how grateful I am to have this community to be able to talk about all this with.

    I know if I didn’t have this place to share how I’m feeling, it would be expressed back at my ex in the form of neediness and anxiety desperation, and I know I would be feeling so much worse about myself as a result.

    Thank you ladies for being here and thank you Rori for providing this for us all!

  210.  #210Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    @Zia – I agree with you. Without this place, and Rori, and Dominique, and Christian Carter, and The Queens Code!!!! I would probably have had myself to blame for chasing away an awesome guy. I’m so glad I found this place and all of you!!!!

  211.  #211Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    Elsie: Click on my name…it will take you to my blog. I’ve deleted all the sort of “coaching” stuff and all my back story but if you click on “view my complete profile”, you will see a link to my email.

    Much Love,

  212.  #212Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Zia: It is wonderful to have a community to share with. You are a blessing here too…don’t ever forget that. I encourage you to check out Dominique’s blog as well. Her ebook is fantastic (walks you through her story and a lot of inner work) and she has a new video program that you might really enjoy. She is a personal friend of Rori’s and her work compliments what you find here very well…but with her own take and twist on things. It’s absolutely beautiful.

    Much Love,

  213.  #213Elsie on April 23, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    @Mercedes…..I just sent you an email! 🙂

  214.  #214Mercedes on April 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Got it Elsie and I just responded! LOVE hearing from you both on and off blog! 🙂

    Much Love,

  215.  #215Turquoise on April 23, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Thank you Sirens! Wow, I feel so relieved you feel I did the right thing. I was second guessing myself a bit. He’s texted me a lot today… Saying he does want to quit, just won’t happen tomorrow and that I should see it from his perspective. I did share that it feels like he’d rather smoke than build a life with me and he said that wasn’t true. The thing is though, he’s known all along how important thus is to me and only tried for 2 weeks. Today I felt a bit sad…. But still very resolved that FINALLY I actually really believe that I am the prize, I have do much to offer, and I won’t settle. It feels like finally really being ok with myself and being able to breathe. Whew, that took a long time…. But it finally feels authentic to say!

  216.  #216k2012 on April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Wow, 213 posts which started yesterday. The blog is busy. Wasn’t aware that a new thread started until now. I always suspect when a new thread has become. The minute I hardly year any emails coming in, I know there is a new thread out which I haven’t subscribed to yet. Good evening ladies how are u all? I haven’t gotten a chance to read the thread as yet so I have a lot of catching up to do. I am working right now, at home that is, so in between when my brain gets tired, I will read. Seahorse, thanks for your response in the last thread.

  217.  #217k2012 on April 23, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    *has begun-Correction. *hardly hear-correction. Listened to a replay on Online Dating on Orna and Matthew’s week long series. It was good. Very interesting. And Jonathan is having a session tomorrow which I am going to listen as well. Should be interesting. I learn so much from all these coaches, its amazing.

  218.  #218ALA on April 23, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Interesting awareness of my feelings today. Two men I am chatting with are being so nice to me. It feels very good. But I noticed that the one man that is giving me all these virtual gifts, I started feeling suspicious of. Telling myself stories like he’s a bad guy. For absolutely NO reason. Where is this fear coming from? Thought about how badly I was treated by D, and it’s the similar feeling. Tight and shakey, anxiety. But I realize that I allowed myself to be treated that way. And it is because I am not loving myself enough. I love my fear. I love you, ALA.

  219.  #219prplpsn28 on April 23, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Haven’t been posting much. Just kind of sitting back and reading all of the posts. They have been very interesting and helpful.

    After breaking the ice with H after our argument via texting the wknd before last I have been leaning back and letting him do any and all initiating of contact etc. And he has. He has contacted me every day since. And instead of waiting til the last minute to find out what time we can do our usual Tuesday night get-together (Mercedes and Dominique will understand this-my situation was the topic of discussion the other day) he has been working closer to home the last couple days so he contacted me yesterday and confirmed tonight with an actual time. He picked me up and we had an awesome time. He was very attentive and affectionate. Thinking that he has sensed a change in my vibe and has felt the energy move away from him? I’ve been trying really hard to work on myself. Any opinions on this would be helpful. Mercedes and Dominique? Anyone? Can’t remember exactly everyone who was following the discussion the other day.

  220.  #220Femininewoman on April 23, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    I remember prplpsn. Now you have touched on something tnat works. Now he has the opportunity to show you his capacity and willingness to do relationship. He has used the space to make his own shift.

  221.  #221Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    It was wonderful to me to realise, that that feeling of contentment I have when I am with a man is created in me. So I can access it even when I am not with him.

    Yay 🙂 I love this.

  222.  #222Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 10:48 pm


    Might I offer a comment on your situation? I know what you mean, re: the flowers.

    I also couldn’t understand why, if it was a simple thing that made me happy, why he wouldn’t just do it.

    Could I suggest that you love him because he is not like you? That that is the very reason you are with him, the very reason that you love him so much. Because he is his *own* person? And has the ability to surprise you?

  223.  #223Indigo on April 23, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Today I feel beautiful and content. I really do. And it’s all me. (well, mostly LOL)

  224.  #224Vi on April 24, 2013 at 12:20 am

    I found out that among all other feelings I also feel delighted that my ex contacted me. On one hand I feel proud of me and like I am a great catch and I feel like I am ‘seen’ . On the other hand I feel afraid to be ‘seen’ and guilty and ashamed of my joyful feelings. I feel ‘wrong’. I feel guilty. I feel ashamed. I love my shame. I love my guilt. I love those who taught me to feel ashamed of love arrows and being seen and being a Siren. I feel the ends of my lips are down. I love my lips. I love my fear and I love my sadness.

  225.  #225Vi on April 24, 2013 at 12:21 am

    I feel thankful for the trigger. It feels so good to know me better and better.

  226.  #226Vi on April 24, 2013 at 12:34 am

    I wanted to dedicate this thankfulness note to a man who out of the blue found me and suggested language trade and who appears to be a great teacher of English apart from being an interesting person and a part of a musical band and a marathon runner… And he opens me doors too 🙂 awww I feel so warm and good and cozy…

  227.  #227Vi on April 24, 2013 at 12:41 am

    And one more thankfulness note – I was on a bus today and the driver let a woman in without a fare and another girl asked her if she needed help or money.. awww I feel so blessed to live in such a community… I felt almost teary to observe this scene…

  228.  #228Melissa on April 24, 2013 at 1:24 am

    I just love this article! Wish there were more

  229.  #229Zia on April 24, 2013 at 3:55 am

    I can’t stop crying tonight 🙁
    Sick of all the “personal growth” and “life lessons” I seem to need to go through, and just want my happily ever after.

  230.  #230Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 5:42 am

    @Zia {{{Hugs!}}} <3 I totally know how that feels.. It can get overwhelming at times….your perfect just the way you are. You deserve the happily ever after 🙂

  231.  #231Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 5:56 am

    Elsie – 206 – You are awesome. 🙂 I SO love how you GET this, you really, really get it.


  232.  #232Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 6:44 am

    @Indigo – I am marinating in what you have said. Love him BECAUSE he is different than me. A yin/yang kind of thing. I do love him because he is different, so you are right – how can I expect him to be the same on this? Ok – that was a great point, and I’m so glad you took the time to write it to me…..

    @Dominique – LOL – I HAVE YOU FOOLED!!!! I feel like I dont “get” it at all. And if I do “get” it…..then there is a huge difference between getting it and living it. I feel like I have SO MUCH work to do. I start to lean back….I start to set down my oars, and then then the next thing you know, I”m rowing the boat again, and I’m wondering….when did I even pick these oars up? It feels so normal to me to have to DO everything, PLAN everything, FIX everything, that I do it without thinking. Its hard to do nothing. Its hard to just be….and receive. Especially for someone who HAD to do it for over a decade of a marriage with someone who had checked out. I care about my ex husband a lot. A lot. He is a good person – a great person. Just not a good husband. I still love him in a lot of ways, just more like a child or family than as a husband if that makes sense, since I had to DO everything. So because of that, its my “normal.” But I want a new normal…..so I have to LEARN how to do nothing. LOL.

    Wow – you wouldnt think doing nothing would be so hard. LOL.

  233.  #233Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 6:51 am

    @ Elsie I so totally know what you mean about knowing it and living it… and not knowing when you picked the oars up… I’m the same… my issue is to toggle between having to be masculine in almost every other part of my life and then remember as soon as he is around to turn it off…drop the doing… EEEE (us strong and capable women)

    I also have the same kind of love for my ex… good to know that there are other women that still have the love…. only it is as child or a friend with their ex. Not too many people understand that…

  234.  #234Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 6:54 am

    Is there a book on the masculine and feminine? I’d like to learn more about it… since I tend to be masculine much more than I’d like…

  235.  #235BeLoved on April 24, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Last night I dreamed that my apartment flooded while I was out, and the manager came in to clean up. I felt so relieved to realize, there wasn’t anything questionable he might find in there.
    I felt relief and sighed at the thought, “Nothing to hide.”

    I’m noticing a flip-flopping going in inside of me.
    Suddenly, I’m remembering all of the things I didn’t like about my relationship with T in the past.
    Remembering how difficult it felt.
    How he used to not dance with me the way I like to dance (important to me! I’m a dancer!)
    He still smokes pot and cigarettes and I don’t think that will ever ever ever change.
    Remember how often I overfunctioned and he sat around ‘waiting’ for me to make first moves, to row the boat.

    In my mind, I run off to the TX hill country to a ranch to ride horses with a man I had 2 brief emails with online.
    I feel vulnerable and embarrassed to put that in writing but I need to see what is going on in my mind here 🙂

    I went from feeling totally sure, totally in love, totally connected, totally ready to move asap – to feeling uncertain, apathetic even, and feeling a desire to stay in TX.

    I haven’t talked to T since Sunday, which felt a little tedious because we got wrapped up in talking about our relationship instead of just being in it.
    My mind is wanting to say…SEE! Same old T. He hasn’t really changed, isn’t going to step up.

    Then I think it through –
    -he had a deadline with Major Corporation he was pushing to have done yesterday
    -he took time out to call me Saturday and Sunday in the middle of a lot of coding, he meant to take only a few minutes but we ended up talking for substantially longer both times – so it would make sense that A) he had to make up lost time, and B) he wouldn’t want to risk making a quick call and getting caught up in a long conversation again

    and then there is C) – we had a lot of long, intense conversations last week, I’m happy for the break, too 🙂

    While I’m over here flip-flopping and oscillating, knowing him, his gears are turning and he is steady on course and working out a plan and being inspired and enjoying himself *giggle*.

    I feel panicky at the thought, I don’t want to lose myself again.
    I feel tearful, scared

    I feel regret that I said anything about wanting to be married, it was all going so smoothly then I did this and got myself all worked up emotionally.
    I wish I hadn’t.
    I wish I had kept my big mouth shut.
    I feel like I ruined the vibe.
    I feel sick.
    I’m not sure I want this man.
    I love love love who he is
    I love that he loves me
    I love the security of him

    I can’t help but think I felt panicked at the rush of male attention and the idea that I might fall in love in TX and find someone who made me want to stay and I went EEK! and ran straight to the person I feel most safe with.

    I wonder if I was projecting my desire to be with ME as a desire to be with him.

    I feel confuzzled.

    Then I think,
    It’s okay if it’s not what I want (but I don’t believe myself).

    How can I feel so sure one minute and want to run the opposite direction so fast in the next?
    I want that feeling, that knowing that I felt last week.

    I’m crying.

    I don’t understand myself sometimes.
    I feel like I have a horrible character.
    I might have enjoyed dating the TX guy and I feel like there’s no way I can go back now because hows that going to look that I said, hey I decided to get married and now I don’t know for sure but I want to date but I want to move to OR
    it will look like The Crazy.
    I want to be a woman who knows what I want and
    maybe I don’t think I can be loved if I don’t know exactly what I want and how to get it.

    Maybe I’m believing that nobody but T will really *get* me and love all the crazy like he does, I should just stick with him and
    oh, that feels like vomiting

    Little bratty self,
    I don’t wanna
    I don’t wanna
    I don’t wanna

    More objective self
    is pretty sure T doesn’t have any attachment to whatever I decide
    and his heart isn’t going to break if I change my mind again
    it’s only my own shame about flip-flopping that’s making me crazy

    what needs love here?

    I feel like I ought to be more grateful
    I ought to appreciate that someone does love me so much
    I shouldn’t be so picky
    I shouldn’t screw with his (my own) mind like this
    I’m never never never gonna be happy with him
    I should wait until we are together before I decide
    I already know
    I don’t know
    Can I love myself for exactly where I am right now?
    What am I scared of?
    I feel scared of ‘leaving him behind’.

    That I’m somehow abandoning him or doing something bad or wrong if I don’t stick to what I said earlier about wanting to be married.

    Well, what if I am doing that, and it’s still what I need to do for me?
    (groaning inside)
    I don’t wanna be that person.
    What do I want instead?


    I don’t know. I need to take a break and then write about it for a minute.

  236.  #236BeLoved on April 24, 2013 at 7:25 am

    You know, I’m wondering, if something about being attached to T
    REQUIRES me to be flip-floppy
    I’m not the only woman he’s had this pattern with

    The 2 women he was with in LTR’s before me moved on from him to the loves of their lives.

    There was something similar with the woman he dated after me, too, in that she was flip-floppy, he’s aware he has a tolerance for it – but she was also, when push came to shove, saying, “errr, no, this isn’t really what I want”.

    Is it possible, that I’ve just been attracted to men who provoke the oscillation in me and that there are men who can bring out the steadiness in me?

  237.  #237Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 7:46 am

    @Lisa – since you asked, I would say Love and Respect is a wonderful book about men/women dynamic. Its Christian so just FYI in case that is an issue for you.

    Also, the Queens Code is an ebook that I love. But Love and Respect really talks about how men and women were made, etc. and that they are truly different.

  238.  #238Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 7:52 am

    @ Elsie

    Thanks! I kind of do have an issue with the religious aspect… I was hoping to find something along the lines of what Rori was speaking of in her e-book. More along the lines of energy dynamics…

    Oh yes, I’m going to buy Queens code…

    I just want to know more about how I know when I’m in one or the other…

    Thanks so much!

  239.  #239Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Purple: What is happening sounds so wonderful! I love it!! Yes..I’m certain he has picked up on your vibe change and wants to care for your relationship because he feels safe there. 🙂 LOVE it! I would suggest you keep doing what your’re doing and add a gratitude journal (that helps a lot to constantly be aware of the little things that make you happy in a day…it will keep your vibe in that good place since your focus will always be on the positive things in life). Also, maybe make it a goal to do one thing each day to really care for yourself. Whether that be a long bubble bath, a manicure, private time for hot tea or meditation or even a simple walk in the morning…anything…taking care of ourselves and being comfortable within our own selves is an amazing way to “work” on ourselves internally yet not feel like we’re working.

    In my experience, a pretty consistent focus on the positive and a very consistent focus on what’s going on with US, inside our hearts, makes for an absolutely amazing life. 🙂

    Much Love,

  240.  #240Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Lisa – honestly I believe little girls are one of the best guides on how to be feminine. They have their daddies for the most part wrapped around their little fingers. I have been paying much attention to them since I started reading Rori’s work and I see how men melt around them.

    Also I find that the more I sink into my feelings, put my attention to the area around my heart and really feel I find my intuition guiding me more clearly so I become more aware of when I am in masculine. I say look inside yourself for your answers. Your inner guidance will direct you if you trust yourself.

  241.  #241Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 7:57 am

    @Lisa – The next time you are at the bookstore, you could maybe just glance through Love and Respect and see if its for you. It is very Christian. However, the bottom line of it is that we were made differently. Men crave respect, women crave love. It explains in different practical ways and words how to give that to each other. Of course, there is a religious element to it – in the sense that women give up control and rowing the boat – and they use different vernacular there – such as allowing the husband to be the head of the household – which is the SAME THING as not rowing. Women get all upset when you say submit to your husband, but they dont really understand that it is the same thing as not rowing…LOL. Anyway – there may be something in there that is useful for you – maybe not. 🙂 You might want to check it out for free at the bookstore when you get a chance, its a huge bestseller.

    The guy that I am with is an atheist, and I am very very religious. I asked him to read it and he did. He really really liked it – so if that means anything to you. 🙂 He was able to see the content for what it was and not absorb so much of the religious connotations if that makes sense. He said after he read it – “Yes that makes a lot of sense, it was a great book.” 🙂

  242.  #242Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Lisa: I haven’t read it, but there is a book on Amazon called “The Secret of The Masculine & Feminine Energies: A Guide to Healing Relationships” by Tanya Copprue. You can check out an excerpt there and see if it is along the lines of what you are looking for.

    Also, both Rori and Dominique (as coaches if you’re interested in working with them in a more private setting) are fabulous at teaching the feminine…even with very masculine women.

    Much Love,

  243.  #243Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 8:01 am

    @ Femininewoman

    Thanks! That is great! I can do that…

    and you know little girls are a great model you are correct… except… that sometimes they have tantrums to get what they want from their daddy.. at least mine does…

  244.  #244Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 8:04 am

    @ Elsie good point…. I’ll do that… I need time in a bookstore anyways… time for me..

    I’m almost atheist…(won’t go into my beliefs) so I get what your saying.. That is so cool that your partner is that much different in views.. that’s amazing!


  245.  #245Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 8:11 am

    @Mercedes Yes, I’ll check that book out..

    I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have private coaching with either one. I have no income as my business isn’t doing well. I depend solely on my ex’s support. So, maybe if I win the lottery… or a miracle happens. I’d jump on it.

    <3 Thanks!!!

    I'm hoping all this work I'm doing will enhance my ability to make money too.. who knows.. inner work tends work on the whole of you.

    I think Rori hit when she said the "you first" women put everyone else first… so I'm needing to feel I deserve it… before it happens…OOPs I just made me cry… I hit the nail on the head.. got it… WOW… more work to do…

  246.  #246Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 8:21 am

    I literally have 5 dates set up over the next 5 days…feeling positive and happy. So why does M text me today and I turn to tears. I know I’m just trying to distract myself with all these dates and I’m doing pretty well till I hear from him. It’s weird, I know I’ll usually see him Wednesday night as we go to the same place and I’m prepared for that but for him to text me is hard to deal with cause then I know he thought of me on his own, not cause I’m there in front of him. The text was just something silly and dumb, I haven’t responded cause I don’t know what to say. What I want to say is “bumping into each other and being friendly is one thing but unless things have changed please don’t text me” it just hurts you know?

  247.  #247Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 8:23 am

    @lisa – well, you say its “cool” that we are so different…..whew…..its very hard work. Its hard for me not to try to “change” him, or even want to change him. I do love him just how he is. I have to accept that he may never be Christian. He is the most ethical and wonderful person I know, and honest and true to a fault almost! We have talked about the fact that a dealbreaker for me is being married, and also that I go to church every week. He has agreed to do that when/if we ever get married. I told him that he doesnt have to believe, but he has to respect that I do believe and that is what I’m teaching my children. So – he has agreed so far. We’ll see what the future holds……

    The way I see it – G0D knew what He was doing when He made him that way, so who am I to try to change it? 🙂 LOL…..

  248.  #248Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 8:27 am

    @nme – good for you for getting dates!

    If thats what you feel like texting, then text that!

    Say “Unless our relationship changes, it feels unsettling to me to get text messages from you. I have told you what I needed from a relationship, so unless that has changed, please honor and respect my feelings and dont text me.”

  249.  #249Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 8:27 am

    I got a new phone (iPhone) and am so confused on following comments. I can’t seem to see where mine went and I think the flow is backwards ugh.

    But hey Mercedes if you ever travel to Philadelphia are I would live to grab a drink!!!!

  250.  #250Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Nme I believe that is perfectly okay to say to him.

  251.  #251MovingMagic on April 24, 2013 at 8:31 am

    I’m noticing myself being drawn to things outside of my comfort zone more & more.Last Sat & Monday I took two new dance classes, both totally different than what I’m naturally drawn to. I’ve jumped on public busses just to see where they’ll land me. I’m doing two dance performances with two totally different styles, both will involve me showing alot of my very white skin (hehe). I’m teachingyoga to a new population & feeling surprised by how much I enjoy it. I’m staying focused on me & finding that my expectations in the dating realm just naturally falls away. When I do get together with men I feel light, excited & EXCITING! The smile on my face is from my own inner happiness & contentment. Which is something no one else is, or should ever be responsible for…& that dear gals feels awesome to finally understand & embrace.

  252.  #252Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 8:38 am

    Elsie & FW….really? Thanks. I thought I was totally off and was gonna be told to just not text him. Now I have to consider if I can send that and deal with the fact that nothing has changed so the texts will just stop. I think I can handle that. You know when I’m in the relationship I do all I can to make it work when I feel it falling apart. Probably to much. But once it’s over I’m good with not reaching out. Even when I want to. He has been the one to text me the few times its happened since we broke up. I saw him Saturday night and he just kept telling me how good I looked and talking to me. He basically monopolized all my time while there. Felt good but sucked. Does that make sense? Oh well I’m gonna have fun going out for sushi tonight, lunch date tomorrow, coffee date later tomorrow and dinner date after that lol. Then lunch date on Sunday. Keeping busy…because besides all that I’ve got boot camp classes I’m taking and softball and baseball for my kids. Always going. Oh and work!

  253.  #253Rori Raye on April 24, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Lori – Hi! Great question, and I’m so sorry – sometimes I start things and then I answer them, but “diffusely throughout programs,” without specifically linking back to my original mention…this is about:

    1. “furniture” refers to my tools around “Touching Objects.” You can find that throughout the ebook, Modern Siren, and DB, too…it means, when you’re in your head – touch something. Get into it. Be with it….

    2. “weather” refers to Feeling Messages, and Poetry – which are everywhere in all my programs, so you should be able to find important Tools around that. (Make sure you have the ebook, too – it will lay a foundation for you for every program after it….) The idea is to start using Feeling Messages and Poetry with things that are not intensely emotional, and have nothing to do with the relationship or the man – that have to do with your experience of the world. The weather, for instance, is easy to talk about – “I feel so warm…” “I can feel spring…I feel the sun on my face, the rain feels like magic….etc…” Love, Rori

  254.  #254Lisa on April 24, 2013 at 8:48 am

    @Elsie 246

    I know what you mean. I was Christian raised that way. Things started shifting for me at 30. I was that way also. I totally respect that. I would think it would be hard work. To change him. Freedom for me is when I realize I can’t change them. I had that work also and still do at times. I stop myself now when I feel the need to change him. My current BF has some different views also, but ours is similar in some ways but vastly different in others.. So, we just talk about the parts that are similar and respect the others difference. As an Atheist I can say that I know I’m a very ethical, kind, giving, and compassionate person too. I know many Atheists that are also. It’s a great group of people to know as far as authentic and ethical, and kind goes… That part you both have in common. You are as well I can tell. <3

  255.  #255Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 8:53 am

    @Lisa – I think of times though in the future where it may cause problems. If one of us gets sick, or hurt, I will turn to prayer. I know that he will not. However, he has prayed with me before, and although sometimes pokes fun at me, its never serious. He respects me and my beliefs. I think that he wants to believe but that he just cant find the evidence for it – and when I start to give him books on it – that are scientific etc. he wont read them. I have to realize that I may never change him. But there is a part of me that truly thinks that maybe I was put in his life to be a witness to him. Not by strongarming him or forcing him, etc. But just by living my life the way I live my life, and through that he will see…..but if not then that is ok too. I just could forsee that if there was an emergency or an illness that we would handle it very differently.

  256.  #256Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Nme – I just remembered seeing this yesterday “you know, I like you a lot but I’m not too sure if we’d get along in the long run”.

    “You know, you’re an amazing guy but maybe we’re not suited for each other, I mean look at how different we are”.

    The coach suggested using these two have inspired men to go after women and said to use them early on during dating.

  257.  #257Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Elsie – I wouldn’t give him books. It smacks of trying to change someone. I would just believe that in his gut he recognizes that there is some higher power that he turns to when he needs to. I have been amazed at guys who have admitted that when they met their “one” and was going through their resistance they asked their “God” if this person was who is meant for them. Guys who I had thought had no such practice or belief because of what they had said in the past.

  258.  #258Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 8:59 am

    FW…I like that. But are you suggesting I use them with M now?

  259.  #259Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 9:03 am

    @Feminine Woman – I’m so sorry but I wasn’t asking for advice on it haha!!!! I already gave him one book and he LOVED that I did. I offered others and he said he wasnt ready for them now, and the conversation ended. This was about 6 months ago, so its sort of not really an issue for me…..I was just explaining what happened to Lisa. 🙂

  260.  #260Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Nme008 if that is how you feel. I believe I would use a mix of what you said earlier and the not suited part with him. Also you are now dating new guys, correct? I would keep them as something to use on these new guys, experimenting to see how it inspires or turn them off. Especially one who might be hot and heavy in the beginning.

  261.  #261BeLoved on April 24, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Feeling relief
    It’s going to be alright, no matter what
    We’ll work it out, we always have and always will one way or another.

    Our friendship has endured and deepened for over a decade, I feel smiles thinking of this.

    OR will be beautiful and I’ll be off on a new adventure and T and I are on the same page in that we are considering each other but there’s nothing really to be done until we are actually physically together.


    I feel so grateful, remembering bloom-ing and GlowStix riffing here, the getting closer brings up stuff and the Super Amazingness for me is that I’m not bolting, I’m not running, I’m not medicating, I’m staying with myself, not pushing aside the doubts, I’ve been honest with him about them and now it just comes down to taking things one moment at a time.

    My mental self-care plan for this afternoon is to write down everything I love, and everything I feel ick about and do Sedona Method release.
    Ahh…yes, just thinking about it makes my heart and sternum feel light and giggly, I can release on the memories and the images and the fears and all of that.
    Big sigh and smiles 🙂

  262.  #262Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Nme: I’ve been to Philadelphia I think 4 or 5 times for work. No plans to get there anytime soon (as a matter of fact, I’m not traveling much at all right now except with J on long weekends, etc) but if that picks up again and your area is on my list, I’ll be sure to let you know and we can maybe meet up. I would SO LOVE that!!

    and for what it’s worth, I would absolutely say that to M. If you don’t, then you are acting like his friend. If a man gets to have you as a friend then, in my experience, he will keep you that way…even if you want more. It’s a painful place to be. If it were me, I would ask him to delete your number. And I would delete his. (This coming from what I did with J to ensure we would never be just friends).

    Much Love,

  263.  #263Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 9:36 am


    ‘bumping into each other and being friendly is one thing but unless YOUR FEELINGS have changed please don’t text me” it just hurts you know?

    “I miss feeling close to you. This just doesn’t feel good. I just don’t have the time for a man friend right now. I would appreciate if you respect my feelings”

  264.  #264ALA on April 24, 2013 at 9:41 am

    “‘I’m feeling uncomfortable with texting. I want to communicate with each other in other ways so we can get to know one another. What do you think?”

    How’s that for a FM with GiftGuyCD?

    LOL, more bouquets of virtual flowers, teddy bears and hearts this am. Silly (((men))) they are just as awkward as us women in the beginning stages.

  265.  #265Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 9:43 am

    For me, beginning with “Unless our relationship changes,” feels like an ultimatum to me. I feel more comfortable with “because our relationship was/is so important to me”.

    “I have told you what I needed from a relationship”. I believe I would just say that I do not want a friendship or just that the texting feels weird, like friendzone and that is not what I want.

    “so unless that has changed”. Again I feel this statement as an ultimatum. Maybe it is the “unless”.

    “Dont text me.” Feels like giving an order or telling someone what to do. I would even go out on a limb and say feels masciline. I would rather use Rori’s what do you think? instead.

    I feel, I want, what do you think format.

  266.  #266Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Purple- 217 – It really doesn’t matter whether he feels a change or not. What matters is that you are doing the work, opening yourself up to life and love as well as enjoying what is. So enjoy what is. FEEL it.

    Stay away from the head stuff as much as you can, and simply FEEL. Love it, embrace it, and revel in it.


  267.  #267Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 9:46 am

    I would ask him to delete your number.

    Wow Mercedes. You are brave. I don’t think I have thought of saying that, though I have chosen to delete guys numbers. I must try that. Now I feel afraid that I will never hear from him again.

  268.  #268Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Zia – 228 – The life lessons and growth continue on for a lifetime. They never stop, and this is awesome and amazing. You get to learn and grow, blossom even bigger and better at every step.

    Can you try to shift your perspective around this?

    Sure I have my man, yet my struggles with self carry on. They may get easier; they may shift and change, yet there is always something to work on.

    And sometimes you will feel low for no particular reason at all. Can you love and embrace those times as well? They can be beautiful too if you allow it.


  269.  #269ALA on April 24, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Is my FM above ^ any good?… before I send it this time I thought I’d ask.

  270.  #270Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Elsie – 231 – I refer to the above comment I made to Zia. It applies as much to you.

    You understand, and you are integrating. This doesn’t mean it’s always there. You DO have the awareness, and this is key. With awareness, you can do anything.


  271.  #271prplpsn28 on April 24, 2013 at 9:53 am

    @ Mercedes 238….Yay! I’m feeling better. I am a cyclist and just had a hitch and new bike rack put on my car this morning. So now I can haul my bike (and my kids bikes) anywhere I want to ride. Riding always makes me feel good about myself. Hoping to get into it more this year then last. Am going to keep plucking away at Rori’s programs also. I can do this! YES I can! I feel great! Thanks to EVERYONE on here for your past, present and continual support. It really helps. 🙂

  272.  #272Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Elsie 231

    I’m glad 🙂 It’s just something that struck me while I was reading your posts. Exactly what you said about the yin / yang balance. Some of us search for partners who are exactly like us, and some of us search for partners to bring balance to our lives.

  273.  #273Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Lisa – 233 – I devote a great portion to this topic about the masculine and feminine energy dynamic, how it works and how they interact best, in my video program.


    I also have an article for three or four on this though the video deals with this in great depth and detail.


  274.  #274ALA on April 24, 2013 at 9:56 am

    “The life lessons and growth continue on for a lifetime. They never stop, and this is awesome and amazing. You get to learn and grow, blossom even bigger and better at every step.”

    I’m feeling appreciation for this awareness. Pre-Rori I would slap a label on it and believed that was it, that’s who I am. Now I’m changing that belief. Everything is flowing and changing.

  275.  #275prplpsn28 on April 24, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Thanks Dominique and FW 🙂

  276.  #276Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Yay you Nme008!

    I am also starting online dating again next week. I have already had a few guys write to me whom I’ve not yet responded to.

    It must feel flattering that M is texting you, even whilst it doesn’t feel entirely good…

  277.  #277Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 9:59 am

    ALA what about texting feels uncomfortable?

    Does it feel disconnected?

  278.  #278Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 10:01 am


  279.  #279Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 10:04 am

    prplpsn – feels so good to feel you happy. That post about the riding felt sunny and bright.

  280.  #280Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 10:06 am

    nme – K works in Philly, and we go in frequently together, the museums, concerts…


  281.  #281Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 10:06 am

    FW: At the time, I assumed I would never hear from J again and that’s what I wanted. In reality, first of all, he didn’t listen to me and he didn’t delete my number. Further, he knew where I worked, had my email address, knew where I lived, knew I was on facebook, knew where I shopped and where my gym was and on and on and on. If he wanted to see me (even if he actually DID delete my number), he could have.

    Saying “delete my number” is sending a message to a man but unless that number is the only way he possibly knows how to reach you, deleting a number in no way stops a man from ever contacting you again. It might make it a little harder, but if he’s not willing to put forth some effort, does it even matter?

    Much Love,

  282.  #282Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 10:07 am

    My ex-husband briefly visited me at work two weeks ago, and yesterday he told me that he battled to resist kissing me.

    He has sent me various lovely compliments over the last few days. I resisted thinking what it meant, but really just enjoyed receiving and how it made me feel, for that’s all it was: masculine energy coming towards me.

  283.  #283Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 10:08 am

    ALA I would look for another way to say it aside from uncomfortable. For me stilettos with pointy toes feel uncomfortable.

    At least I prefer something like “it would feel so good to hear your voice” or “I feel so curious to know what your voice sound like”. Then when I get a call I kinda do a happy dance while complementing the deep/soothing or whatever masculine voice.

  284.  #284Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 10:09 am

    ALA – 263 – How about this – “‘I’m feeling uncomfortable with texting. It would feel so much better hearing your voice. What do you think?”


  285.  #285ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:13 am

    I want to know him better, who he is. Character and values will come with time to really know who he is.

    Guess I want to know if he’s a safe person.

    He gives me compliments, says I’m beautiful, the virtual gifts. That I’m super triggered by. I dont understand it. Could be my feminine energy awakening?

    But he doesn’t say anything about himself, unless I ask. That feels masculine to ask all the time.

  286.  #286ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Good point about stilettos!

    How about, ” I feel kinda weird about texting and not hearing your voice.”

  287.  #287ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:25 am

    “I’m feeling kinda weird about texting. I want to hear your voice. What do you think?”

  288.  #288Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 10:32 am

    How about: “How long do you suppose all this texting is going to go on before you ask me out on a date at XYZ Coffee Shop on Friday at 4:20pm Central Standard Time?”

    Much Love,

  289.  #289Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Now that I am reading ALA it seems that it is also focussed on his texting. I see also that Dominique wrote the same but I am here asking myself if I feel weird or uncomfortable texting why wouldn’t I just tell him I don’t like texting and would prefer talking. Then say it would feel good to hear his voice.

  290.  #290Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Mercedes I would definitely use that sassy style with a man who I could take or leave. Or someone who has drawn out texting over weeks. I love it. Now that I read it, it feels like I have lost touch with that side of myself.

  291.  #291Violette on April 24, 2013 at 10:42 am

    I very much relate to the post. I feel very triggered by holding my boundaries, and I only find that out “on the field,” by actually dating.

    I was so nervous to ask AJ to call instead of text, but he did. I was nervous to ask him to pick me up instead of meet at the restaurant, he did. I was nervous to wait and not call him to give him my address like he’s asked, and he called to get my address. I was nervous he’d ask me to pay, but prepared not to, he didn’t ask that.

    And I’m surprised I felt so afraid, because these are no-brainer non-negotiables for me, and because I don’t know AJ or like him so much from when we met…I’m just practicing and being open.

    That being said, and although he was very nice and interesting, and I did have fun, I didn’t order what I wanted, I ordered what he got because it was the least expensive, and I didn’t like it, and I regret it. I will always order what I want in the future.

    Also, he never said I looked nice, didn’t pull out my chair, or open my car doors, and at the end of the night he invited me to come see his band play this week, or if I couldn’t make it that he’d “holler at me when something good was going on…”. Neither of these options are what I want. I just want to go on another proper date…

    And there is a limit to how much I can ask someone to adjust their behavior for me. Although he seems “trainable,” he doesn’t seem to have any basic clue about how to date in the way that feels satisfying to me, and form past experience I feel that I might as well end it here, if I was wise. And yet, that feels so scary to me, like, am I a bitch or what? All these dark voices come into my head like, why don’t I accept men as they are, like why am I so demanding…that why I’m still single…

    And yet I have NEVER been sorry for laying a boundary and saying no to bad behavior. My regrets tend to stem from the opposite, from not saying no to stuff I don’t want.

    I just wanted to voice that. It’s tough finding the strength to be true to myself, and to accept that my values are ok, that it’s ok to have standards and not accept anything less…

    I am growing a lot here…

  292.  #292ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:44 am

    I like sassy too!

    hmmm, am I brave enough to say that? possibly without specifying the time and place.

    I’m open to more ideas too!

    this seems like a common stumbling point for many sirens.

  293.  #293Mercedes on April 24, 2013 at 10:51 am

    LOL! FW…I think I’m losing patience with all the leaning back and this probably isn’t the place to say all of that but…well…it’s happening to me. 🙂

    I see the leaning back and I get it and I even use that particular tool. I get going into our feelings and listening to them and understanding them and opening our hearts and being feminine.

    And then sometimes I think: “But why wouldn’t I just say what I want to say or ask what I want to ask? Why would I have to think about this and practice it and revise it and go over it again? Why wouldn’t I just set the date?”

    I’m not talking about being sassy all the time or losing my femininity or anything like that but when a man is too slow to ask out or call or whatever, I see no reason why we shouldn’t. I mean, most of us want a man who will take the lead and do it quickly. If we’re communicating with a man who won’t, then chances are good he’s not what we want anyway. So…ask him out and get started on the practice session sooner. What difference does it make?

    And that’s me in my “tired of leaning back, everybody, in unison, lean forward!”

    Much Love,

  294.  #294ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:53 am

    How long is this texting going to go on before you want to meet me?

  295.  #295ALA on April 24, 2013 at 10:55 am

    That’s actually what I WANT to say!

  296.  #296Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 10:55 am

    There is nothing at all with leaning forward as an experiment and also if you can do so with NO attachment to the outcome, i.e. no expectations. It can be fun to play around with this and to notice when you feel your energy shift when it becomes too much leaning forward and to also note his response in kind.


  297.  #297ALA on April 24, 2013 at 11:07 am

    “I dont like endless, back and forth texting. How long is this going to go on before you ask me out?”

  298.  #298ALA on April 24, 2013 at 11:11 am

    just experimenting how all these feel.

    Noticing I would miss all the attention and presents if I pushed him away. Not him… because I dont *know* him.

  299.  #299Elsie on April 24, 2013 at 11:17 am

    If the guy seems funny I would text…

    “…..the archeologists found them centuries later…..and there they remained. Texting each other from afar until the end of their days….cell phones dusty and crumbling in their hands……and to think what might have happened had they actually gone on a date…..”

  300.  #300ALA on April 24, 2013 at 11:24 am

    I like that, Elsie … witty and clever! not really *me* unfortunately.

    Final draft…?

    “I feel flattered by all your compliments and gifts. Thank you!

    I feel a concern…

    I dont like endless, back and forth texting.How long is this texting going to go on before you want to meet me?

  301.  #301Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 11:41 am


    I don’t know if your texting guys from online dating site or what so i could be off here. That’s where I’m meeting men right now and at the end of my profile I wrote “I am not looking for a pen pal so lets not text/message/talk forever. The point is to meet right!” And then after a few messages on the site they usually ask for my number and I always say “I’m fine with giving it to you but just be sure you’ve read my entire profile and we are on the same page before you use it :)” works for me so far.

  302.  #302Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Dominique I would be sooo excited if you were ever in my area and we could meet! Would be an honor!!

  303.  #303Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Indigo. Good luck!!! Lol. It’s definitely an experience.

    As for M’s texts? Yeah it’s definitely a mix if feelings. I feel happy he actually thinks of me but sad that we are not together. I also feel hope when I get them and that just hurts to much. That’s why I’d rather no contact unless we bump into each other.

  304.  #304Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 11:45 am


    Good luck!!! Lol. It’s definitely an experience.

    As for M’s texts? Yeah it’s definitely a mix if feelings. I feel happy he actually thinks of me but sad that we are not together. I also feel hope when I get them and that just hurts to much. That’s why I’d rather no contact unless we bump into each other.

  305.  #305Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Mercedes & FW

    Thanks for all your thoughts. Definitely food for thought. I’ve still not responded lol.

  306.  #306Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Dominique …. Do you have any thoughts on M texting me and what to say? I’d love to hear them. Still undecided weather or not to respond at all.

    Just a little insight (not that what was said matters but…) last Wednesday my tide left me. Completely bailed, lol. I was shocked. So M and another friend gave me a ride home. So today he text me and said “I won’t be at xxx tonight so try not to get left behind, lol”

  307.  #307ALA on April 24, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Nme – Yes, I am online also. That was helpful. I’m going to put something like that on my profile too. Thanks!

  308.  #308Nme008 on April 24, 2013 at 12:39 pm


    Yay I’m glad to finally be helpful to someone instead of the other way around for once lol.

  309.  #309Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    “I won’t be at xxx tonight so try not to get left behind, lol”

    Seems like his protector instinct still on high alert. It is cute :). I would just send appreciation. That would be for ME to practice being my best self in preparation for appreciating and respecting my Mr. Right when he arrives.

  310.  #310Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    ALA about the online profile, I saw another siren say that in one of the Love Foreever Classes Rori encouraged her to take out all negatives. I believe it included “I don’t wants”. The advice was to discuss it in the moment it came up. As obviously I am not looking for a penpal is working with some men as in Nme’s case I would say pay attention to how much hits your profile gets and as time go along tweak it, just in case. Alternatively you could say what you are looking for as in meeting and getting to know new people.

  311.  #311Barb on April 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    I have been listening to “Finding Mr. Right,” “Modern Sirens” and “Have the Relationship you Want” over and over and over again…. I’m just struggling with so much:

    I am a 53-year old widow, still grieving the loss of a beautiful 30 year marriage. Searching for new employment and trying to become accustomed to living alone. But I am so very lonely and I know what a great marriage can be. I want that again, and in the interim, I want companionship and, yes, physical fulfillment (sex!!).

    I have two regulars, one I am crazy about, another who is a much better prospect, in theory, but dull as dishwater.

    #1 has s got lots of issues. He’s such a nice, sweet generous guy, he knows all my grief issues and is so understanding – lots and lots of phone calls – and he got me over the fear of being sexual with a new person (keep in mind: 32 years with the same man and I was practically a born-again virgin – lol) and I really have strong feelings for him. But he’s a messed up hurt divorcee, seven years as a bachelor, full of bad habits, insecurities and commitment issues – but my heart wants HIM. – Go figure

    #2 is a successful professional, widower and pursues me in a calm and gentlemanly way. I keep seeing him because, well, because he’s a good catch, no pressure and we have the widow thing in common.

    I have dated a couple of potential #3’s but I never seem to get past the first date. I just have a hard time juggling more than these two and when I meet them; I just have zero interest and let it go after the first date. (Side note here: we always seem to have great phone chemistry, but the reality always pales once we meet).

    OK, sorry for the long intro, but I am so VERY confused…

    -I only have sex with #1 and I have let him know that I am dating others – he seems OK with that (sad, but true) and I just can’t seem to move him with “feeling” statements.
    Should I stop having sex with him and put him on the same level as #2?
    (My fear is I will lose him if I do that, and I really am afraid that if I lose him I will be so hurt and lonely, not to mention the fact that I LOVE the sex.)

    -What do I do with #2? I feel like he follows the RR program so much better because I don’t pay much attention to him – so of course I am more appealing to him! But he never makes me laugh, he’s a terrible conversationalist and there’s just no spark at all.

    -How do I get to at least three – I really hate the online thing – it’s exhausting and I obviously need to see a guy face-to-face to know if there is a connection (by the way, if I don’t like him on the phone, I won’t even plan a meeting).

    So, what’s a widow to do? I know that first and foremost, I need to be strong and healthy on my own, I need to be happy and fulfilled in my single status, and I’m working on that, but I DO want a good, strong relationship because I just hate being alone and even though I have tons of family and friends in supportive roles who I can and do spend time with, – no amount of social engagements and grandkid time substitutes for the male-female connection I crave.

    I feel like I need a private session – but no budget for that!
    I’m a mess girls, where do I go from here??

  312.  #312Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    nme – sounds a bit like guilt texting to me. you could ignore them, and he will likely stop. and if you run into him you can tell him that continuing contact feels too painful for you right now and maybe always.

    or you can go ahead and text the above right now. whichever feels better to you.


  313.  #313April Rose on April 24, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    How do you let a guy know you want to open your options because he isn’t providing you with the relationship you want?

  314.  #314Femininewoman on April 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Guilt Dominique? Really? I didn’t get that at all. As a matter of fact my first reaction was “Don’t flatter yourself”. It also came across a bit like him fluffing his feathers (boosting his ego and condescending) but I chose to look for the positive.

    Guilt? Wow. I guess I have a belief that they don’t feel guilty when they move on.

  315.  #315Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    It feels hard to find my blind spot with a particular man :/

  316.  #316Orna Walters on April 24, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Re: post #217 – Thank you for saying you’re enjoying our online event.

    It’s actually 5+ weeks long with over 30 experts in everything you can think of: sex, relationships, dating – and its all free and available from your computer or telephone anywhere in the world.

    We have an exclusive interview with Rori – which is available as a bonus in our Platinum Plus offer of the entire series audios, transcripts and bonuses.

    We spend months putting this event together so that those who need access to experts can get it for FREE, and if you want to invest a little bit, you can get that too as most of our expert faculty are making crazy special deals on programs that cost much more.

    If you need help in any area of Creating Love On Purpose I hope you’ll join us http://www.LoveOnPurposeRevolution.com

    Love and Abundance,

  317.  #317BeLoved on April 24, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    I just learned that I’m going to be a grandmother – not sure of the details, I’ll talk to my son further tonight.

    Does anyone here live in different states from their grandchildren?
    I feel really sad at the thought moving out of state and not being around for my grandchild, and a dream of being the midwife at my grandbaby’s birth is most likely about to die.

    My heart wants to go in so many directions right now.
    I feel some sadness, and I also feel peace.
    I knew this would happen eventually,
    and the more I think about it, the more I feel into it, the lighter my heart feels, I think it’s okay.
    It doesn’t mean I’m abandoning my son or my grandchild. At best, I’ll be creating community and a life where they can come live if they ever need or want to leave TX.

    it’s going to be fine.

  318.  #318Zia on April 24, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    267: Dominique yes you are right. and i DO know this. i am a lot more accepting of my ups and downs and emotional growth and “character building” since discovering Rori’s programs. why? because i’ve learned that it is OKAY to feel the good AND the bad! And to love myself no matter what.

    I always seem to be the one in my close circle of friends and family who is highly emotional, and constantly going through some kind of emotional turmoil or change. I think this relates to what we discussed a little while back about some of us being a lot more highly emotional than others. It also stems from me not settling for “average” in any area of my life. I know it’s for the best, because I am constantly feeling and growing on an emotional and mental level.. but some days (like yesterday) i just feel weary, lonely, and so, so sad.

    I have a close circle of friends and they’re all married or in a relationship. I have been not only the only single person, but the only single person with a child for so long…. my sister has the life i thought i always wanted, married to the guy she’s been with since 17 yrs old and two kids and busy discussing which house they’re going to buy next… my mother means well but always is of the attitude of “well don’t worry, you’ll meet a man who will look after you and marry you and you’ll be ok” any time i try and express what i’m going through, and i KNOW that’s a big life theme that’s been ingrained in me.

    I feel so different to a lot of people around me and sometimes that makes me feel overwhelmingly lonely. So again, I’m so glad to have this place to express my true feelings without judgement, or someone trying to offer advice or help on how to “stop feeling bad”.

    Wow that post brought out a lot more than I expected it to.

  319.  #319Zia on April 24, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    267: Dominique yes you are right. and i DO know this. i am a lot more accepting of my ups and downs and emotional growth and “character building” since discovering Rori’s programs. why? because i’ve learned that it is OKAY to feel the good AND the bad! And to love myself no matter what.

    I always seem to be the one in my close circle of friends and family who is highly emotional, and constantly going through some kind of emotional turmoil or change. I think this relates to what we discussed a little while back about some of us being a lot more highly emotional than others. It also stems from me not settling for “average” in any area of my life. I know it’s for the best, because I am constantly feeling and growing on an emotional and mental level.. but some days (like yesterday) i just feel weary, lonely, and so, so sad.

    I have a close circle of friends and they’re all married or in a relationship. I have been not only the only single person, but the only single person with a child for so long…. my sister has the life i thought i always wanted, married to the guy she’s been with since 17 yrs old and two kids and busy discussing which house they’re going to buy next… my mother means well but always is of the attitude of “well don’t worry, you’ll meet a man who will look after you and marry you and you’ll be ok” any time i try and express what i’m going through, and i KNOW that’s a big life theme that’s been ingrained in me.

    I feel so different to a lot of people around me and sometimes that makes me feel overwhelmingly lonely. So again, I’m so glad to have this place to express my true feelings without judgement, or someone trying to offer advice or help on how to “stop feeling bad”.

    Wow that post brought out a lot more than I expected it to.

  320.  #320Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    FW – 311 – My view on this is why would he be making contact at all then? He hasn’t moved on, not completely.


  321.  #321Rori Raye on April 24, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Barb – you are NOT a mess!!!! You are FANTASTIC!!!! You’re talking about chaos that’s normal, natural, required and – hey – if you look at this from another angle – can you see how you’re ROCKIN THIS!!! Who CARES what’s up with #1! And right now, while you’re still grieving – it’s just way too soon to look for a new life-partner. How about you just have some FUN!!!!! Having a lover you like is supremely amazing for you right now – and you can learn so MUCH from this experience – including how to not get hung up on what happens next, but to just revel in what’s going on NOW!!

    First idea – stop talking ‘grief’ with #1. Start talking Poetry – and find more and more things to feel exuberant about to share. This is “practice” time! Don’t dump ANY man you enjoy at all. You’re not looking for a new husband just yet – you can’t be if you’re still grieving and working through it. No one is going to save you from loneliness…you’re going to have to go through process…there’s no other way …we’ll all help you, and all I can say is BRAVA!!!! Keep doing what you’re doing! Love, Rori

  322.  #322Dominique on April 24, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Zia – 315 – That was so beautiful to read. And here is something which may help you. Throughout much of my life I felt different, different from everyone I knew, seeking, experimenting, yet not finding my niche, YET I got to experience so much more than most, riches most “normal” people do not.

    And yes this has and continues to include loneliness. Not in my relationship with K but in my life outside the relationship, yet I love my life, and I feel SO thankful to be different, unique. If nothing else, my life is NOT boring.

    Try viewing all of this as you being unique, different than the norm, and thus uniquely special. You have been gifted with treasures others haven’t. This could feel really, really wonderful.


  323.  #323Rori Raye on April 24, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Violette – please get the ebook – your view of “Boundaries” is not what Boundaries are. And your having all these non-negotiables is way too much. You are – yes, a people pleaser. Please embrace that and have a sense of humor about it! I imagine you as LOVELY! Just keep doing what you’re doing, and if it were me – I’d follow his instructions and invitation and go see his band! Bring a girlfriend! He wants you to KNOW him! You’re not going to his house, you’re going to watch him play. There’s no way he can pick you up for that this time. What do you have to lose? Love, Rori

  324.  #324Sirenity on April 24, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Syreena 118

    “It feels truly horrible, awful, not to be respected and allowed choices over ones own like and body and to have other people force me to do what think is best. Do as your told attitude the doctor, dentist knows best.
    Actually in reality they don’t. Most don’t question anything and are just parroting what they have learned or been told.”

    I am sorry that you feel that way .

    I feel most unfairly judged. I feel hurt and obliterated by your generalisation. I love respect and admire the very vast majority of my colleagues and their selfless, exhausting and often thankless task of helping others. I also respect their dedication and spirit of inquiry , their tertiary education extending to a minimum of twelve years in this country. I dont want to read doctor bashing comments unless you walk in my shoes .

    No health professional can force you to do anything against your wishes so I suggest you charge them with assault if they did.


  325.  #325Zia on April 24, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    322: Dominique thank you 🙂 I’d say 90% of the time it DOES feel wonderful and special… but that other 10% of the time it feels the complete opposite.

    That said, I honestly wouldn’t have it any other way.

  326.  #326Kristine on April 24, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Purple, YAY for you!!! The leaning back really works! Thanks for sharing your experience. Keep it up! He’s stepping up and being a real man.

    Elsie, yes doing nothing is HARD!!! I totally agree. What helped me was to focus doing other things, that were unrelated to men. The distraction helps a lot.

    Nme, as for the texting question, you have 2 options: 1. Do nothing — which is hard, but I think the best choice as he will have to call you if he really wants to connect (and the more you write on this blog, the easier it is to do nothing and see what he does), or
    2. Text him back, but that has to be done with the right soft words. Telling him what to do or not do, is not right in my view. As Dominique and others suggested, sending a feeling message…about how texting feels to you, and asking what you want or don’t want, and ending with “what do you think”? is the way to go.

    Men are so used to texting and we are too, so we feel compelled to respond. Texting is also easy…its impersonal, and not as scary as using the phone and talking to a live person.

    When I first met my husband he started off sending me texts (and emails) too, but I really wanted to talk in person or over the phone…to hear his sexy deep voice… so I simply said “texting doesn’t feel good to me. I prefer to talk on the phone. what do you think?” Then of course he texts back a few times, still trying to get my attention, thinking I wasn’t serious, till he figured it out. And eventually, he called. And I was very happy! So I said “it feels GREAT to hear from you!”. And the rest is history.

    Getting out of the habit of texting is good for him. It gets him out of his comfort zone and men fall in love when they do scary things…

    Once we were in a relationship, I did text back more often, but still, even today, if I’m busy doing other stuff during the day, I don’t notice his texts or emails, or just ignore them for a while, and he calls me after he hasn’t heard from me. It’s a beautiful feeling…


  327.  #327Kristine on April 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm


    While I agree with everything Rori said, I also know that the sex with #1 may be making you feel less for #2 (hence he’s boring to you). As a result of our evolution and biology, women get attached when they have sex. Its very hard to be a rock star free sprit and not get attached. Something just happens with the endorphins and bonding chemicals are released in our brain after we have sex.

    Don’t get me wrong, sex is great for you. Its healthy and it can help you get through the grieving process. Its a natural anti-depressant.

    But if you feel concerned that you may not be giving #2 a chance, or that your judgment may be clouded, I would date without sex for a while.

    After my divorce, which was like a death to me too, I went through a wonderful fun learning period of dating and having lots of sex with thrilling men…but I wasn’t ready for a relationship. And the guys I met weren’t exactly relationship material either. It was fun, but at the same time, emotionally painful when they poofed or didn’t treat me as well as I would have liked.

    When I finally realized I was ready (took a few years) I decided to end these “flings” and made a promise to myself not to have sex until I met a great guy that wanted a real healthy relationship with me.

    Dating without sex opened my eyes and let me judge the men I met differently. The nice, boring ones were the keepers and the bad boys got nothing from me.

    Believe me, you can fall in love with and have AMAZING sex with a really nice guy as long as you aren’t having sex with anyone else. Now if after several dates you still don’t feel any spark, it may be time to drop him from your CD rotation and add a new one to the mix.

    Don’t give up on online dating. All you have to do is smile and wait for them to contact you and ask you out. Set time limits for calls and dates, so its not too draining. Relax and enjoy being single! Now that I’m married again, I look back and realize dating really wasn’t so bad. It was fun! Enjoy it!


  328.  #328Kristine on April 24, 2013 at 7:54 pm


    I’m so happy you feel comfortable on this blog and expressing your feelings without judgment can be very therapeudic and healing.

    If it helps, I just want you to know that no one has perfect families or friends who are accepting and nonjudgmental. Its just the way the world is… and everyone is on their own journey through life, with their own life experiences and fears that form their views. Just be careful that when you are emotional, its not in the form of attacking or blaming others. Its ok to express your feelings, but realize that some people just may not be able to handle them..for their own reasons.

    In my own family, there are many people I don’t express my feelings to because they simply are not able to be compassionate and they get angry. There are others who I just am not so close to or simply don’t get along with…its hard sometimes. And can be lonely. It feels uncomfortable sometimes being in the same room with them or even speaking with them. Some have so much negative energy, are so critical, pessimistic, etc., its depressing.

    It helps when I focus on how I feel and express those feelings to myself or through other means, like writing. Sometimes I have to simply avoid people who make me feel really bad. Set some boundaries.

    Surround yourself with people who make you feel loved, cared for, respected, supported, happy. We cannot choose the family we are born into, but we can choose how much time we spend with them and what we share with them. We can also choose who we want to be friends with.

    Take care of yourself first, nourish yourself, and you may find dealing with difficult people comes easier, and the emotional ups and downs may not be so severe.

    Hope that helps.


  329.  #329Kristine on April 24, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Zia, one more suggestion, maybe find a local women’s group with other single moms. Or just other single women. I too was a single divorced mother for many years and made lots of single girlfriends (most of whom didn’t have kids, but that’s ok). When you find friends who are happy with their lives as single women, you won’t feel so alone. Get a babysitter and go for a girls’ night out once a month and you’ll feel better for sure. Not everyone has to be married or in a relationship. Singles are happy people too!


  330.  #330Turquoise on April 24, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Mr. Conversation and I have been talking a little for about a month now, he was supportive with my mom being sick, our girls are friends and have been seeing each other a lot more. It’s been stricty platonic and nothing like we used to be…. and I felt pretty good about it. Like I’ve shared, our kids are friends, we live in a small town, will see each other and no reason we can’t be civil…. even friendly… well, when I picked up my daughter the other day, it felt like he was checking me out, brought up stuff about when we dated…. I kept the conversation light and left, no hugs or anything… well, tonight he s
    tarted texting me and being really flirty and put it out there that he wants to hook up. I was a little flirty back… but there isn’t that same draw there was before. He is still very hot, I’m attracted to him, and the sex would be fun, I haven’t slept with Sweetheart since January…. but I kind of feel like we should just be friends and not mess it up.

  331.  #331Indigo on April 24, 2013 at 9:15 pm


    I just wanted to echo what Dominique has said. I have felt alone for large portions of my life, even when there are other people around. The people I have connected most to in this world, report a similar feeling.

    Being special means, well, just that… Marching to the beat of your own drum.

    But I feel and experience things I know others don’t, it’s such a beautiful and rich way to live. And you can even learn to love and revel in the aloneness, and treasure those connections you do make all the more.

  332.  #332Tereana on April 25, 2013 at 12:17 am

    In a rare moment, I don’t have anything to say…


  333.  #333Femininewoman on April 25, 2013 at 2:11 am

    Turquoise I feel concern because reading your comments I remember reading something from Rori about bouncing back and forth between two men. I also remember CCarter talking about the serial monogamist. Please please please take care of yourself. Your girls are watching and learning life lessons.

  334.  #334Turquoise on April 25, 2013 at 3:50 am

    I know FW, and the fact that my girls are watching and learning… Is with me every day. Part of the problem is they love being with him and his kids. They want me to invite them over, for us all to be together. They would like for me to be with him.

    I’m not ready to be with someone else right now, beyond maybe a casual date… I feel sad about sweetheart. I did really care about him.

    I’m not rushing into anything. I have talked to a few guys online…. One is older than my norm, wants to take me out to dinner. Tom also popped back up…. But I’m not sure i want to keep seeing him.

  335.  #335Vi on April 25, 2013 at 4:02 am

    I feel nostalgia and notice I am waiting to hear from my ex again… like waiting for a treat.. awww… (((Vi))) hehe..
    I feel guilty that I feel nostalgic. There is that subtle feeling in my chest that feels like there is beating up going on. I love me. I love my nostalgic feelings. I love my nostalgic feelings.
    Anchor tool.. I would love to feel myself more grounded.. and keep my energy to myself instead of distributing it among different men…
    ..maybe I could try and turn those my feelings and thoughts into EFT.. just out of curiosity
    Hehe.. and underneath those nostalgic feelings there is a part of me that knows exactly who is the true treat here.. I intend to focus more on this part of me.. I love that part of me!

  336.  #336Jennie on April 25, 2013 at 4:19 am

    Vi, EFT can be so helpful … I bet you could do that with those thoughts and feelings.

    We all need this badge and as Rori says, not only to own it but to take it out and shine it whenever we’ve taken a step in the right direction 🙂

  337.  #337Femininewoman on April 25, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Tom seems to be steady and ALWAYS there.

  338.  #338Turquoise on April 25, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Tom pops in once every few months…. I don’t hear from him on a regular basis. We are friends on Facebook, yet he hasn’t said one word to me about my mom dying. He’s a nice guy to go out to dinner with, but it doesn’t seem to amount to more than that, or some physical attention. Kind of feels like it doesn’t matter either way. I could keep him as a CD or not… but I don’t have that much free time for dates, feels like it might be better spent meeting someone new.

  339.  #339Zia on April 25, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    I’ve actually made it a whole week without any contact from my ex. Which is the longest in the 2 months since he moved out.

    It’s been so hard, to sit on my hands and do nothing. I keep wanting to reach out, and there’s that part of me that wants to just ask “is it definitely over? would he ever want to get back together?” but thank goodness for this forum. Because I now KNOW (even though I already knew) that if he was willing and capable of a relationship with me, he’d contact me. He’d ask how I am. He’d lean forward in some way. And the fact that he isn’t means I need to stay on my bridge, and just keep moving forward.

    I’m wearing my love badge today because even though it feels difficult, and strange, I am putting ME first.

    I also had all my hair chopped off yesterday (from below shoulder length back up to my chin!) and it feels so good :))

  340.  #340Femininewoman on April 26, 2013 at 10:37 am

    I know what you mean Turquoise

  341.  #341Senior Lady Vibe on April 27, 2013 at 9:42 am

    @293: Mercedes:

    Hmmm, just living normal works for me. 😀

    If something isn’t feeling normal and good for me then it’s probably not something for the real me. So no need to do it and I know it’s time to find what’s best for me.


  342.  #342Senior Lady Vibe on April 27, 2013 at 9:49 am

    @338: Turquoise says:
    “Tom pops in once every few months…. I don’t hear from him on a regular basis. We are friends on Facebook, yet he hasn’t said one word to me about my mom dying…”

    Hi Turquoise, I’m sad to read of your loss. My mother died more than 20 years ago but her words still pop into my head every now and then. Some things I’d long ago forgotten often give me a new tool or way to think about, understand or appreciate things. I hope the same for you too.


  343.  #343Senior Lady Vibe on April 27, 2013 at 10:05 am


    I was just inspired by watching a “Project Runway” video and when I checked Vogue Patterns online I found a $3.88 five-day sale which lasts through tomorrow, Sunday April 28th.

    $3.88 is a big discount especially for the $20.00 designer patterns. Claire Shaeffer’s Chanel “little black jacket” from her couture series is also $3.88!



  344.  #344Monica on May 5, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Rory I need a badge of some way how can I? I feel so lost I had been in a relationship for 3 years we finally got married just 3 months ago. My housband can be so charming and funny and next thing you know something litle makes him act on it before a used to stay quiet make amends be nice It only created distance it was like a patern he constantly throw this years even before we got married very often wen we have and argument he saids we maybe should get a break I freez and our arguments are so minimal stupid like yesterday I work 60 hours so I was finally enjoying my Saturday by myself watching tv I was so happy and he text me hey is a nice day will you like to go out! I reply with I do not feel like running errands why do not we got to watch a movie or do something fun he instantly go defensive saying when are you going to do it why are you putting off ? I got mad I said I work to hard this week wich I did I just want to do something different, he said taking care of my wife makes me feel good I replied with you wife need to rest which he said well if you do not care for your Virginia showing up ! I replied with you just do not get it I got so mad he call and I was cring more the angry I try so hard this week I was so exhausted yet now I was fitting I even cover for him in Monday because he was sick I forgive his bad temper last night and make him dinner and the day that I finally got to feel peace was ruin now I feel I gave so much yet I some how was consider a lazy wife and I was not in peace so we he call I just said I do not want to argue why do not you get it I am exhausted he just got more upset and stared to scream and I hang up on him he broke his phone wen he came home he said maybe we should just take a break and step back I do not care he turn the blame he said he was tired of me he feeling responsible about the house he has to pick my mess than and that he just did not know anymore and went on with the old speech put my 1000 flaws on the table I feel my body sinking as if every flaw is a knife cutting me out I want to say something but he is to angry I am so scared he might live yet my body can not handle I puke as the words and the pain is so much to Handel as if a part of me wants to scream and defend it self. he did not leave I did not leave he said he needs a commitment he even waned to have sex I said no I am so lost he had alcoholism and he used to use pot 4 months ago he waned to stop and he has been nicer and things seem to go very well now I can feel this fear of not been in a secure place with some one that is so unstable yet he loves me but he can not handle confrontation and is hurting me is always a low punch I tell my self well if just had gone with him and buy the pants but I know that is not the problem I am confuse talking dose not work with him I am mad I want to fixe it yet I know the issue is not going to go away just by cleaning the house and the old part of my self is so angry at me for tolerating such bad behavior deep inside will just love to say you want a break bye the door is wide open. yet the other one can not believe this should be the end it keeps the good memories. Is like I married a bipolar man and I am just in the storm waiting for the nice guy I love to come back.

  345.  #345Kentucky Called on May 23, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Okay folks…here is the update. I was/am in a Long Distance relationship with Mr. Kentucky. I did fly out and meet him briefly but that was a bit of a disappointment as we didn’t spend much time together when I did meet him…I think I spoke more about this in another thread. Anyway, he was hot and heavy texting and calling and then got more and more lazy and infrequent. i addressed it about three times with no real improvement so I pulled back after listening & reading Rori’s material. I leaned back and he leaned forward within a week asking, “do you have a boyfriend?” (unfortunately, I hadn’t reviewed the “Flirting with the World” … “Targeting Mr. Right yet, so I answered that I was just “chilling until he got to California for his visit. next month…I didn’t have a lot of time for a boyfriend…” okay… Big Mistake. but I hadn’t listened to her awesome series “Targeting Mr Right” flirting with the world yet….! Now I know better! Girls, we are ALWAYS busy with lots of fun things on our plates!”

    Anyway, with my “I’m just waiting for you answer” He realized, I guess, “hey, I don’t have to work hard…she’s just waiting for me…” and then he didn’t call for two weeks! and actually I broke down and texted him, “do YOU have a girlfriend?” He laughed and said no..but still no more calls and texts. IT was SO HARD to not call or talk as we had been talking almost every day in the beginning but I did what Rori said, totally no texts, no calls&started dating! ONE week I had 5 dates in the same week! It was so much fun! Then, when I went to South Carolina, I got on POF and lined up 2 dates out there while on business! I was on a mission: Date 100 men this year…coffee dates, fun dates, movie dates whatever and keep leaning back! Then, just like Rori said in her tapes….an OLD BOYFRIEND showed up out of nowhere and literally knocked on my door! (She said the old ones resurface out of nowhere and bam! there he was!) He wanted to go out and although I’m over him, I still said yes. I kept my FB page up as my original LD man & I are both FB friends but I stopped posting on his page completely and stopped looking at it for the most part…but I posted all my fun adventures and travel. He could see for himself that I was traveling and having a great time without him. (I didn’t post any guy pics…just posted all the fun things I was doing) Well, when I posted I was in the South, he called. I was kind of shocked to get it because I was so used to not hearing from him….we talked almost for a half hour. He had earlier promised to meet me in CA this month (May) but I had seen on his FB page he had been in the hospital…okay, every once in awhile I do check his page…just not every day anymore…at any rate, he told me he is leaving his job and had a “heart” scare and was in the hospital so he told me he hadn’t called me all this time because, “so much was going on work wise and health-wise but not relationship wise.” He said he was going to meet me in person (His original promise) or have a long talk with me via phone so he would be calling/getting back to me again. We had a nice conversation and tried to keep it all “feeling messages” although I DID tell him, “I feel so disconnected when I don’t hear from you” after I unzippered my heart…

    but, back to the leaning back. So we talked and I didn’t think much of it, kept going on with my life and then a week or two later, I posted I was at a TV Station for filming in the audience and he was all over my page with comments about this particular show. He is NEVER commenting on my page. Hardly ever. So I was pretty surprised to see two comments from him on my page on different posts.

    Not that this is huge but even when we were texting almost every day he hardly ever commented on my page…so I consider this (and the phone call) “forward movement”. While it remains to be seen if and when we will ever meet face to face again….just wanted to post that by leaning back he DID call and is now on my FB page weighing in. All those days of leaning back were SO difficult not to reach out to him. I have a GREAT DATE today with another guy but I’m encouraged that the leaning back works! even in LD relationships (and my guy scored fairly high on the toxic scale…but STILL did move forward…) It was risky because I realized he may be more toxic than normal and may not be ABLE to reach forward at all. Still, I HAD to finally drop the ball of the relationship and lean back. THAT was so hard! Every day I had to work not to call or reach out but now I’m happy to see it really works! They DO come back around if you can lean back. Thanks Rori.

  346.  #346lu on May 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Please put me on your blog RORI

    and if you do any couples workshops let me know!