Put Your Love Life Back Together – Love Forever Teleclass On Wednesday, February 11th – In Time For Valentine’s Day!

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0608263003-copyJoin me on the newest Love Forever LIVE teleclass on February 11th at 11am PST, 2pm EST (just in time for Valentine’s Day!) – and get your unique, personal questions answered by me, live by phone or webcast.

(PLUS – Coach Valarie O’Ryan will answer your questions about Valentine’s gift-giving, always a real dilemma for me…) –

Go here to find out how to get on the class–>>


Here’s a letter from Helene, who’s been devastated by her husband’s behavior:

The Question:

“Dear Rori, My husband of twelve years wants to end our marriage.

We bought two acres together and built our dream house on it. It took two and half years of labor, and basically living our lives apart except for weekends. We agreed to live this way because it was necessary for him to stay at his present place of employment in order to help finance the project, while I stayed on the land with our animals and supervised the construction.

Exactly one week to the day after the house was finally finished, he announced to me that he wanted to end our marriage, and then later admitted that he is involved with another woman.

My heart is broken, my dreams are crushed, and I now find myself alone in an area that is somewhat risky for a woman, as it is a bit isolated. My mother just passed away, and I have no friends or family here.

My husband continues to come up on the weekends in order to work on unfinished projects. We still make love, and have actually begun to have conversations about our past problems.

Note From Rori: Helene is enduring an extreme situation – where she’s agreed to what’s basically a “separation.”

Any kind of separation is always going to do damage to a relationship no matter HOW you manage it.

This is how most celebrity marriages break – with so much travel and working on location – and why great celebrity marriages stick (Angie and Brad always go and “hang” at each other’s work and humanitarian sites with their kids if it’s more than a short stay, Linda and Paul McCartney were reportedly never apart more than 11 days…).

Separation and long distance don’t give you the “touch” that relationships need.

And Touch is what makes the difference between friendship and a juicy romantic relationship – and without romance and some lustful touch – a marriage won’t survive a long bout of “friendship.”

Add to that other issues – communication shut-down, emotional superficiality and dryness – so many things that are repairable when you’re with each other 24/7, but that add up when you’re apart.

This feels so important, I’ll be beginning my next Love Forever teleclass with my Tool called: “Warmth and Distance” – which is the basis of “The Modern Siren Combo.

The Modern Siren Combo is how you get a juicy relationship started out of even little or NO chemistry whatsoever (on your part!) – and keep it growing more and more intimately until you have…Love Forever.

“Separation” isn’t just physical. The moment we create too much separation (the “Distance” part of The Modern Siren Combo takes care of all the “separation” you need) – the relationship can begin to unravel before your eyes.

Go here to find out more about my Love Forever Teleclass Membership program and how to get on the teleclass call with me personally on February 11th at 11am PST, 2pm EST!  PLUS, get all 26+ hours of recordings in the Love Forever program so far, along with every new Love Forever teleclass I do without ever paying another dime…)–>>


More from Helene, even more heartbreaking:

“He says that this other relationship is serious. I don’t know what to do.
I still love him so much, and he says that he loves me but that be wants to follow another path now.

Can you make any suggestions as to what I should do?

Feeling hopeless, Helene”

My Answer:

There’s a French movie I love – “Happily Ever After” about a woman in a similar situation – she decides (perhaps being French has something with her character being able to do this) to hold onto her husband and beat out the mistress, but instead of confronting the mistress or her husband directly, or by trying to win him over in some way – she turns away from him, rents the family a house in the country, and proceeds to create a beautiful life for herself and their child, and, of course, the husband comes along.

He’s totally re-captivated by this woman who is his wife, who is interesting, is fulfilling herself, is doing what makes her happy and not depending on him for fun and fulfillment, and so he drops his mistress and …happily ever after.

Not every woman wants to do this…most of the time the pain and anger you feel is so huge you can’t even imagine staying with him.  But after many, many years of marriage, you may decide the marriage is worth something, and you want to fight for it.

Sometimes you have no options left in the relationship (another movie – “Under The Tuscan Sun”), and yet it sounds like Helene still may have a choice, here.

Helene – Allowing the marriage to be about weekends only for 2 and 1/2 years damaged the marriage. We don’t know yet if the damage is irreversible, though he says it is.

If you want to fight – this is what you have to do: You have to instantly – NOW – turn into a goddess, free spirit, rock star.  I mean this totally.

You must meet men – you have to start flirting, and start having coffee, lunch and dinner with other men.  If you can find a place where there are any men near your new home – do that – if you have to go to the nearest city – do that.

To learn how this fictional French woman can help YOU bring a man closer WITHOUT ANY EFFORT on your part at all! (It just takes “skill” and “practice…”) – Join me in Love Forever on February 11th.

I look forward to answering your personal questions and addressing your unique, personal love situation on February 11th,  in the newest Love Forever LIVE teleclass–>>


If there is no social life and no men where your house is, then you have a clear choice – your house or your love life.  Get out of the house and move to the city.  Now.

You have to turn yourself back into the woman you were when he first fell in love with you – for these last 2 years you’ve been pretty much the caretaker of the country house – there, predictable – and your communication suffered greatly.

The keyword here is FUN.  You have to start having fun in your life right now, and he has to see it and feel it.  You have to out-fun this other woman.

You know him more than she does – you have to win him away by creating excitement and newness – and you can’t do it by trying.  You have to do it for real by changing your own outlook on this whole thing.

Otherwise, just give up, let him go, don’t sleep with him, get a lawyer, sell the house and move on.  I’ll help you with that – but don’t let yourself stay in some middle place, hoping things will change.

You have to take your life in your hands, now, and make decisions for your own happiness – with or without him. Amazingly enough, this is the one best way to rescue the marriage!

You are locked in a battle for your life.  He’s just incidental right now – YOU are the star and the heroine of this movie! Build yourself a great story!

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Gemini Goddess on February 9, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    I love the attitude of French women in so many ways. From what I’ve read and encountered, they are so invested in cultivating their “secret garden”/inner lives, and keeping it private, thus creating high value and mystique and staying centered.

  2.  #2Gemini Goddess on February 9, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    Putting on some French music now. Feeling French… and mysterious…

  3.  #3Silver-Tongued Siren on February 9, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    One of my children’s fathers has been acting strangely lately. A few weeks ago I invited him to come camping with me at a friends place, and he agreed- except that he “might have the opportunity to work that weekend” and would have to go if he got it. (Yes, he is quite often vague). He has been rubber-banding anyway, so this isn’t all that unusual. I half suspected he was full of it anyway and it was just an excuse. (I think he suspects that I am less likely to put up with bs lately, as he was quite more agreeable when we went out a couple months ago and I did not try to hold onto him when he said he was “so sleepy”, I told him to go home, I’d call someone else. He made sure I knew he wanted to stay there with me – and he did.

    Anyway, he assured me he wanted to go on this camping trip, (the day of – AFTER I ASKED because he hadn’t confirmed), but couldn’t. And he was in too bad of a mood and “couldn’t relax” because he didn’t have any money until the following friday.

    A week prior he had come in looking very aggravated and moody and dark. He said he had a “hard day” at work, he had to send two kids to the principle and that he would never work at THAT school again. (Substituting).

    This was 2-3 weeks ago. Whenever I have asked him, a few times, how work was today, or what school he has to go to today, he always has an answer. Only once was I don’t know – the rest of the time he has been specific with names of schools and provided vague details, but still slight details, of his day. The last two times he was here he told me he had to work early in the morning, etc. This morning I asked which school he had to go to, and he told me.

    BUT, I haven’t received a child support payment (as tiny as it is), for 4 weeks (they split into 2 payments a month). I didn’t want to accuse him, or question him, so I called the child support office. I asked them why no payments, and if he is still working.

    They can’t see whom he works for, but told me that he filed a change of employer on the 27th of January, and a next payment could take another 4-6 weeks to come through. (he has only been working above the table again for a couple of months now, after some “medical issues).

    So… it sounds like he quit? … (or got fired?), but didn’t tell me? So he quit his job and found another a week later or so? (timeline coincides with his mood improving and he blamed it on “having something to do with diet”).

    I don’t want to question him, but I feel weird that he would be dishonest/withhold information from me, (altho he may not have realized that change of employers= 4-8 wks wait on payment either). I also don’t see how he can still be doing the same work if he changed employers, but his schedule still appears consistent with school and he still tells me vague details that appear as tho he is working the same job.

    I just want to feel honest and open.

    During the time he felt bad, I leaned forward a little as he truly felt so awful he wanted to go “bury himself in a corner”.. He’d been more responsive to me recently, and he did manage to let himself be cheered up a bit with flirting and playfulness.

    Since then, he’s been spending more time with me as well (instead of just arriving and leaving) – he hangs out for an hour or two, snuggles, holds me, hugs me, is affectionate, and has been physical with me twice in the last week.

    He knows that I’d like more wholeness in my family and part of that involves him living with us, making a home and being partners, if he is interested in that. (but hasn’t responded about it in any way).

    (Yes, despite my partner/husband MILW. He has a personality disorder and has fallen off the boat into the deep end for several months now. So sharing a home with other dad is partly needing help acquiring space for both living and work, as well as maintaining my family’s togetherness and support in all directions possible.)

    Anyway.. tiny update. I have had others in the rotation as well – just to go out and have fun.

    Back to my question, Should I ask him about this work (honesty & openness) issue, and if so, HOW?
    I know not to ask “innocent questions” – if he wants to tell me he’ll tell me – but I feel like he hid it from me. That makes me feel less safe. I know he doesn’t tell me everything anyway, and I trust myself to handle whatever comes my way (but it isn’t fair when it’s hidden). I want to feel honesty and trust between us. Why would he hide that? Maybe he was embarrassed. Maybe he didn’t realize it would affect my payments since he got another job right away.

    Maybe it really isn’t important.

    I think it might be better if I said nothing at all… however it is actually affecting me, since I was counting on that small bit of support this month.

    I did read your post, Dominique —-http://sexandheart.com/how-much-can-you-expect-from-your-man-when-hes-hurting/

    and thought that was very good advice. I am bothered by the lack of open honesty, but at this point it may be better to leave it alone and just feel good, unless anyone else thinks differently?

  4.  #4Silver-Tongued Siren on February 9, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Gemini Goddess : I agree.. 😀 Does anyone have examples of other women like this?

  5.  #5Silver-Tongued Siren on February 9, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Oh, ps, I hope no one thought I wasn’t being sensitive in the first paragraph – he actually said he should go to bed.. and while I didn’t do the best job of being in feeling messages, I think I made my point, because he scrambled to correct it, which was very different from past behavior. So was my behavior different, where I’ve been very lax, hanging on, patient, etc. That time I just didn’t care.

    But please everyone do tell me whether you think I should ask about the openness/job issue.

  6.  #6Gemini Goddess on February 9, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    Other example would be….us! 🙂

  7.  #7Andrea on February 9, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    RRguy… back on the radar. Texting me with flattering texts that he missed me and is thinking about me.

    I feel a sadness and a kind of non sarcastic, non angry boredom. I just had so much hope. Man, I love that chemistry. I really like looking at him and being around him and talking to him and laughing with him and DARN. I just feel the loss of that hope.

    I feel sad because it’s the same old pattern with him. When he’s not in my town he goes weeks with out contacting me. Then when he’s here, all alone in the hotel, bored and carless… well then he’s texting me, telling me how he’s thinking about me, how great I am, how he yearns to be near me, to be with me, to hear my voice just saying his name, he’s never met anybody like me…

    Ahhh… all the stuff. This time, even though I was warm and inviting and enthusiastic that he was thinking about me and texting me, when he invited me for lunch…

    His text: I’d really like to see you. If you have time, I may be here until 1:00. Would you like to meet for lunch?

    My text: It would be wonderful to see you but I really need a few days advance notice for dates now days. I have lots to accomplish today.

    He’s so understanding and he texts me things like how he’s impressed with all I’m doing and he’s so inspired by me and he just yearns to hold me close…

    All texts. All only while he’s in my town.

    Then he also lied to me. Just a silly lie, but he texted me a picture of himself in the stands at a football game and he said, “This is just for you baby. I took it only yesterday.”
    But it’s the same picture I saw on his facebook profile about three weeks ago.

    Darn it! I feel the seams coming apart.

    I thought about creating some feeling messages like: I would feel so happy if you were able to call me tonight when I get off of work. (knowing he would be home, back in his city)

    But then… I realized…. I don’t really even want to talk to him. I just feel sad. I don’t want to be lied to. I don’t want to be yo-yoed about. I don’t really even want to see him.

    I feel sad to abandon (and yes I have to admit) I had all these hopes for a real relationship with this one. I feel sad because I chemically connected with him and thrived on the dopamine high, before I knew how he would treat me.

    I feel silly too because a part of me still hopes… isn’t that strange… a part of me looks at that picture and remembers his kisses and all the words and I just want HIM to be the one. Darn it.

  8.  #8lovetodance on February 9, 2015 at 6:32 pm


    i feel your confidence, wisdom and siren-ness is growing in leaps and bounds….

    not taking the crumbs and seeing where they lead to…and waiting for the whole pie….

    i also feel if you take just a slice of pie with someone its for you own satisfaction and not about a fantasy with an un-available man…

    keep rocking it andrea! you are an inspiration….

  9.  #9Dominique on February 9, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    Silver Tongued Siren – I understand your dilemma here so well, and there really isn’t a easy answer here. If you were together as a couple, married or not, I might suggest saying something. Yet you’re not. Asking for openness and honest doesn’t guarantee it no matter what he says.

    I understand also understand that knowing he’s hidden this from you can create some uneasy feelings in you, yet there’s a reason why he hasn’t shared with you. Can you maybe try trusting him in this.


  10.  #10Labbit on February 9, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    Andrea, I’m so sorry to hear that RRGuy isn’t keeping contact when he’s not in your town. Yet I also feel so excited for you because what I’m reading in your comment is so powerful, so full of love for yourself and being the Prize and not settling for less and not beating yourself up either!! I share your frustration that this isn’t the outcome you want at the moment…and at the same time I’m SO EXCITED by what I’m reading from you!!!!

    I love that you are NOT concerning yourself with what he does or doesn’t do. The early days of any relationship are often a negotiation of how much respect a man has to give us…I see you are doing so well here, and who knows? He may just step up yet. And even if he doesn’t, I have to imagine a much better man is getting ever-closer to you, drawn magnetically to your Siren pull.

  11.  #11Labbit on February 9, 2015 at 8:47 pm

    Also Andrea I know that this is the point where — at least for me — sometimes that disappointment would come flooding forward, those old woe is me I guess I’m not good enough for any man feelings. If those do come forward for you, remember that they are just OLD PROGRAMMING. Not accurate to your life here and now. You are making space for better and better men to show up and THEY WILL. Or the men in your life will step up. You deserve everything you want in a man and you will have it. Have no fear or doubt of this.

  12.  #12Mandy on February 9, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    French culture is fascinating – I’m not certain about what it is that they actually do to remain mysterious, or the culture of it, I’d love to read about it, do you know of a book? I know of one that talks about eating patterns and just being able to say this doesn’t taste good and not eat it, because it’s just not up to par, not because we feel guilty to waste food…which feels pretty Sireny…

    Anyway, thinking of it, what I get a picture of is a Courtesan…who has many suitors and who gets to choose her suitors from many men who try to court her well enough to win her affection…That sounds so awesomely rad, lol….

  13.  #13lovetodance on February 9, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    10 and 11 labbitt

    wonderful and wise words to andrea….

    and soothing to me….

  14.  #14Silver-Tongued Siren on February 9, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    13 Mandy, I’d like to read about French culture more, too.

    9 Dominique–
    Thank you for your thoughts, I completely agree with you. I sense that it would cause a feeling of misalignment and disharmony for little or no resolution and no good reason.

    It wouldn’t make a payment happen. It wouldn’t make him feel good (about me, about withholding information from me, about quitting/being fired) but would probably make him feel emasculated, wrong, inadequate, as he probably already feels.

    Things are moving forward, more than they were before. I feel better leaving it alone and trusting him, also.

    <3 I always feel your advice is along the lines of what I sense and feel as well.. Thank you Dominique!

  15.  #15mary on February 9, 2015 at 11:26 pm

    Oh Helene, my heart goes out to you! I feel so sorry for what you’re going through. That just sounds like the worst thing ever! And I’m also very sad that you lost your mother recently, while all this was going on.


    And all that work on the house. I know how that goes! It’s too bad you can’t enjoy it with your husband right NOW.

    I’ll tell you what. I was married for twelve years too, and my husband left me for another woman. I read an ebook about how to get the ex back, and it basically was just getting a new life and having fun and doing things I loved to do, and getting with friends, etc. Well, we had moved to a new country and I knew no one there. So it was a difficult thing to follow the instructions in the book, but I made myself do it. I figured that it was a Win/ Win for me. Either I got my husband back or I got a new life, and either way, I was winning. So I joined anything and everything I could (it’s easier now, with Meetup Groups;) I did a divorce recovery group, I went to night classes, I joined a church, I went to several bible studies, each meeting on different evenings, and I MADE IT MY BUSINESS to find something to do with someone from each of those places on the weekends, so I wouldn’t be alone. And because I was pretty far north, it got dark very early in the evening, so I made two plans for each evening. And that worked really well.

    I put my profile on Plenty of Fish and said I wanted to be “friends only.” When I went on dates I explained to guys that I was still married and that I just wanted to be friends, and you know what? They didn’t disappear. They actually relaxed and seemed to enjoy my company even more, inviting me to do so many fun things!

    I got pretty popular, and I kind of started feeling sorry for my husband because he’d settled for someone else so soon. You know? He totally skipped the dating step, and that was starting to be wildly fun for me! Oh my goodness! I felt like a teenager again! It was hard getting into it, but a huge payoff once I did.

    I also had more energy because I was having fun, and I dropped a few pounds and was looking quite hot. I bought a few new blouses and started wearing some brighter, pinker lipstick.

    Then one day my husband came over to have me sign some papers, and he said, “Hey, come over and sit next to me” and asked me if I’d put off the divorce. I thought it was a scheme of his at first, to try to get more money or something, but then I realized that he was serious and I was at Win/ Win! I had my new, unbelievably busy and happy life, and he was mesmerized again.

    He was still living with the other woman though. So I said that we were on each others’ “NO” lists. And for him to be on my “MAYBE” list, I had to be on his “YES” list, and he would have to finish the relationship with the other woman, and be single for a while for me to consider going back with him. He said that was too many hoops for him to jump through, so that was that.

    Then later he told me that he went up to his room, looked himself in the mirror, and said, “Who do you think you are, anyway?”

    And I felt respect for myself. And just kept going out on dates and having fun. Eventually I got divorced, and then engaged… (and that’s another story!)

    It seems like Rori’s suggesting that you do the same thing. And all I can say is that it worked for me. And I didn’t know ANYONE. I was totally alone.

    All you have to do is start having fun. You don’t even have to forget about your ex. Think about him all you want, but get BUSY doing things you love to do, and seeing people you love to see. Make new friends if you have to, like I did! That’s fun, too.

    Who knows? It all might work for you, too! You could win one way, or you could win another way… or you might even win both ways at the same time…

    You won’t know unless you try…



  16.  #16Labbit on February 10, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Mary I feel tingly reading your story…thank you so much for sharing it!!! I just, wow, everything about it is so awesome, and encouraging! This is a great reminder to me that even with a happy relationship the more I take care of me and do things that make me feel good the more mesmerized he will be — and I want him to be mesmerized by me for the rest of our lives.

    Feeling very inspired by this.

  17.  #17Mistea1 on February 10, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Mary 15,

    I feel so encouraged by your post. Thanks for telling about what you did to get busy with your own life. I can do more in this area.

  18.  #18Mistea1 on February 10, 2015 at 8:00 am

    Andrea 7,

    Thanks for your update on RR guy, very helpful.

  19.  #19Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 8:33 am

    Andrea…. STANDING OVATION!!!
    No crumbs… AND
    you are ACTUALLY bored by his
    (how should i say this???)
    imaginariness (ahhh… ahhh that isn’t a word!!!)

    As Labbit says so eloquently in #10-11
    I feel sad too that He is NOTwhat you had hoped for… (maybe later)

    BUT you are loving YOU and treating YOU like
    the Prize you are!!

  20.  #20Kim on February 10, 2015 at 8:54 am

    Azure, love, from the other thread.
    I am sure some may not agree with me but I think throwing Spirit out was a very sireny thing to do….remembering your boundaries and it not being a good time/circumstance to be talking.
    I get it.
    In fact, when I was intensely triggered one time with MoM at my house, us bring intimate and him then seeing this actress he liked on TV and didn’t stop to tell me just how attracted he was to her…it felt horrible, it was late, he was supposed to stay over and I felt triggered and just, well, wasn’t in the mood to talk, feeling messages or defensively..just not in the mood. So I said ‘ you know, I am feeling off and have changed my mind on you staying here tonight, can you please leave?”
    He was shocked, totally shocked…he said ‘ we had an argument about me telling you I am attracted to an actress and you behave like this?’
    I said: yes, this is my place amd my sanctuary and I would like a good nights sleep, sorry to offend you.
    At the time, it didn’t feel sireny….but also, I just felt disrespected and off and as the door clicked, I felt much happier lol.
    He still co es out with inapproprite comments sometimes, and I just sigh or say nothing, and he will quickly diffuse the situation by being really sweet. I dare say, he learnt where my limits are, amd spirit learnt about yours.
    Nothing wrong.

  21.  #21Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 9:12 am

    What a great story about you and MoM

    I certainly wasn’t as Sireny as you… Darling…
    I snapped…
    Loudly said how disrespectfull he was being towards the president of the United States…
    And to ME!!
    I would NEVER say those things in front of him about any Republican leader… LEAVE… GET OUT!!

    Right away I knew my out burst (even though I felt he was being disrespectful of my beliefs)
    was MORE about Me
    letting him into MY sanctuary (good point Kim)
    AND letting HIM into my sacred circle of friends…
    ME DIsregarding
    MY boundaries…

    I like what you are saying… we CAN, and often DO, change our minds…
    And that is OK… Stop, share our feelings
    and stand strong for changing our minds!
    Love this…. Thank you…
    So many NEW things to learn…
    My journey, today, Feels
    FINE, MINE, and wonderful~~

  22.  #22Indigo on February 10, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Kim & Azure Blu,

    I agree with you, Kim, that throwing a man out of our sanctuary when the situation starts to feel bad is a very Sireny thing to do. I remember Leigha Lake saying that if a man was ogling another woman in front of her and she told him in feeling messages how it made her feel, and he dismissed that, that she would simply get up and walk out. Actions speak louder than words. Azure Blu, I think this applies to your situation about your political beliefs as well.

    I have put this into practice a few times in recent times with D, and I have found it is far more effective than any discussion you could hope to have. If a situation feels disrespectful, I simply get up and leave. Interestingly enough, he has got the message very quickly and now jumps to make sure I am comfortable around things where I have drawn a boundary. We briefly had the “attractive actresses” issue when we were watching TV for a short while, but now he would NEVER dream of implying that he was attracted to another woman in front of me.

    We all have our boundaries, Azure, and you realized what yours were from the way your insides were making you feel. You stood up for that, and that is WONDERFUL.

  23.  #23Mistea1 on February 10, 2015 at 9:52 am

    Azure Blu 21,

    I’m doing some vicarious experiencing through you I guess. 🙂
    You said you told him to leave after disrespecting the president and your beliefs.

    Then you said you realized it was more about you. I’m curious and wonder what might have happened if you had gone right to the points about your sanctuary, friends and boundary issues with feeling statements. I realize there was the heat of the moment but thinking back over it if you could have changed to the latter what do you think you would have felt and what would be the effect on him?

    Thanks, and I know I have issues in this area myself.

  24.  #24Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Indigo #22…
    Ahhh… thank you for your Warm support…
    I do remember several posts from you… lately…
    Where you have stood your ground with D…
    and YOU feel so much more impowered… and HE Knows
    YOU are the Prize!! :-))

  25.  #25Femininewoman on February 10, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Andrea there are so many reminders and lessons for me wrapped in your comment.

    Actions speak louder than words so watch the man’s actions. They will always use the right words for us because they know they work. He seems to know that as a woman you thrive on these words. Yet his actions show when he is not in front of you, you don’t exist. A lesson I can take from his book.

    ” I feel sad because I chemically connected with him and thrived on the dopamine high, before I knew how he would treat me.” These words are jumping at me off the page. Rori’s words, it is all about how I feel when I am with him and not with him. So I have to lean back and see how he treats me.

    “a part of me looks at that picture and remembers his kisses and all the words and I just want HIM to be the one”. I remember Rori saying something about how it all gets skewed when we are into him. All the attraction, the romance, the sensuality, all that energy I have to direct to me.

  26.  #26Femininewoman on February 10, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Kim I see it as driving a stake in the ground for your happiness and you will not hang around anything or anyone that’s not making you happy. You need to feel respected to feel happy. I guarantee he understands that because he does not want to feel disrespected by you either.

  27.  #27Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Great questions…
    It will be helpful to riff a Re-do
    to THIS senario…

    If i hadn’t had that last glass of wine…
    I wouldn’t have Asked HIM
    if he would like to come over…
    Or mention how I feel disconnected by NOT having been to HIS house…
    I would have wanted to go home sooner and said
    good night at my door….
    He would have wanted to come in… I would have said
    “Ohhhh…. Darling Spirit, sexy man… I feel so happy and turned on that you want to spend more time… get sexy with me
    But I feel most turned on when the man creates space where true love can flourish.”
    Kiss… good night…

    It would feel good for me to hear How this redo sound to you?

  28.  #28Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 10:24 am

    mmmm… but I could have gotten MORE specific
    Maybe… and said this when he was IN my home…
    “I feel I have disregarded my boundaries
    by letting you get closer to my sacred circle
    of friends
    letting you into my home which is
    MY warm, safe sanctuary…
    I don’t want to be rude but
    it would feel good if we end the evening now.”

  29.  #29Gemini Goddess on February 10, 2015 at 11:11 am

    Azure Blu-

    I tend to go with much less explaining. I’d say something like “Time to go”, or “You’re outta here” When asked why, “Because I feel like it.” or “Because I am NOT enjoying this conversation, and I’d like you to go.” He knows why.

  30.  #30Kim on February 10, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Azure Blu, I do feel a bit giggly reading your post about not disrespecting the president of the US and you…and throwing him out. I could see myself do something identical if I was being wound up by something a man does or says…lol.
    And yes, it is about us…yet, sometimes it is ‘ok’ to stomp foot. At least it is authentic. Rather than sitting in a corner and bottling it all up and being a yes-girl.
    My view.
    And indigo, totally agree. I can see how men can be clueless around this issue…telling women that they find another womAn attractive, or hot, and then being surprised that we don’t feel all lovey dovey about them…
    I remember distinctly MrP being very triggering with this…he once sat us down in a cafe at night so he wouldn’t face me to talk, but faced my side, just so he could look at all the attractive girls walk past….he even said so. I just sat there heartbroken, saying nothing because I was just happy to be in his company. OMG. This will never happen to me again.
    I believe we have to respect ourselves first, before a man respects us. And I will never disrespect myself to that extent again…and FW made a good point about respecting the man. I can’t respect a man, who has his tongue hanging out when an attractive girl walks past and stops mid conversation…lol.
    Anyhow, if this should become a problem again in my relationship, and I don’t believe so because my guy wouldn’t ogle up other women when with me, so far, I will be sure to express it. And if he negates my feelings around this, or says it is my problem and I am insecure, well, then that would necessitate me removing myself from the situation…quite right.
    With regards to the political views, it always surprises me that people usually preach tolerance, but when you happen to have a different opinion, their tolerance is gone, and I have often found men very insistent on being ‘right’ with their political and spiritual views and wantig to ‘turn’ me…I am learning to agreeing to disagree with some of those issues with MoM also…even though we are mostly on the same page. I no longer feel the need to change my opinions to please a man but I also don’t want him to feel disrespected or made wrong for his views. It is not always easy…

  31.  #31Kim on February 10, 2015 at 11:23 am

    26 FW I couldn’t agree more.
    My guy has some body issues….he is a little overweight. I wouldn’t dream of telling him how incredibly attracted I felt to some chiseled, lean, amazing actor. I am not for fuelling people’s insecurities or weak points and as such I kinda hope that, should this situation arise again that caused me to throw him out once, many moons ago, he would now understand that respect goes both ways…
    He made a little comment on the weekend but was very quick to deflate the situation…I said nothing…so I feel confident that lessons have been learnt on both sides lol

  32.  #32Mistea1 on February 10, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Azure Blu 27,28,

    Well, 27 was the one that got the spontaneous chuckle out of me. I liked it because it leaves him knowing what he’s missed! Plus you get a kiss, very cool.

    28 seemed more dry and curt. I wouldn’t use the term, “i dont’ want to be rude.” though.

    I liked what GG said too. To the point and he doesn’t deserve any curtesy either.

  33.  #33Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    Lovely Sirens…
    Ahhh,,, thank you for ALLL your lovely feedback!!
    Sooo wonderful.

    I agree with the comments about men
    checking out other women or commenting on other women’s beauty when they are with me..
    For me, I don’t let that happen.

    Spirit IS VERY careful NOT to look at or mention any women when we have been together and tells me
    I am the MOST gorgeous, beautiful woman in the world!! Ahhh…love that!!!

    It is a matter of respect as I wouldn’t make comments about good looking men to them…
    Yep… I would use feeling messages
    and say something if that happens.

  34.  #34Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Kim #30
    “And yes, it is about us…yet, sometimes it is ‘ok’ to
    stomp foot. :-))
    At least it is authentic.”

    I was just realizing how FAR I have come since I first started reading RR…
    I used to stuff my feelings, sulk, ignore…
    I hugged myself and Gave myself LOTS of praise
    for coming sooooo far…
    I now share my feelings, easily!

  35.  #35Gemini Goddess on February 10, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    RE: Discussing attractive women

    For some reason this does not bother me at all…as in I will check out other women WITH him, and we have a running joke that if Christina Aguilera calls him, he’s allowed to go sleep with her. So far, no call. In reverse D agrees that if John Stewart calls me, I can sleep with him (I like a man with a well-hung wit),though D was also careful to specify it must be that SPECIFIC John Stewart. (So cute) Again, no call.

    What causes me to just crumble is anyone he may have feelings for, like his ex. I do not dislike her personally in the least, but if he is anything but COMPLETELY dismissive about the relationship, I am triggered beyond recovery. I have gotten much better about not “accidentally on purpose” bringing it up to test his reaction. (how totally embarrassing) Of course all this energetic leaning forward, looking for some kind of reassurance on my part makes him defensive = bad cycle.

    I have NO doubts about his feelings for me, nor his complete fidelity. Still this is what swims in my head.

    Thoughts anyone?

  36.  #36Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Some randome archived thoughts:

    Like Rori says, if it feels good, keep doing it.
    If it doesn’t feel good, stop doing it.
    That single sentence helps me make moment to moment decisions with men so much easier!
    It feels good to root toxic people from your life.
    It feels good to honor your heart and show love to yourself
    by doing what you know you really want
    and feel comfortable with.
    It feels good to state your truth
    whether or not a man likes it.

    Rori says:
    “It doesn’t matter how much we give to a man
    or make it easy for him —
    he won’t fall in love.
    He can’t fall in love with a woman
    just because she’s fun,
    smart and sexy.
    He falls in love with who we are
    and our ability to anchor in love
    and ourselves.
    To stick to our boundaries,
    to say no to what we don’t want
    and to be able to walk away
    if we’re not being loved,
    cherished and adored.”

    “When you learn how to anchor yourself
    in self – love,
    you’ll see your masculine man moving towards you.
    There’s a magnetic pull on a man
    that makes him want to get as close as possible
    when a woman loves herself more than any man.
    If you don’t learn how to anchor yourself
    in self–love
    and learn how to love yourself more than any man,
    you’ll find yourself feeling anxious,
    constantly chasing a man
    and losing yourself completely.”

  37.  #37Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    GG #35
    Mmmm.. if my man talks about his ex in anyway that sounds loving….

    Rori had a post on this…
    a woman’s bf started spending time helping his ex cause she moved into town…
    Rori said… tell him how it feels good to hear how caring and thoughtful he is being to help her out…
    “It would feel good to invite her over and meet her sometime.”
    Can anyone remember that post?

  38.  #38Labbit on February 10, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Gemini Goddess, I am the same way. If TenderCD notices and appreciates the beauty of another female it doesn’t bother me in the least…I think of it as him building up his virility to use with me later. 🙂 Every once in awhile at the gym he might comment on a female classmate or I might comment on a male classmate. We know who each other’s celebrity crushes are.

    I can think of one ex who would stare longingly at other women, and yes that felt bad to me…I can see how it depends on a number of factors. When TenderCD does it I don’t feel threatened or bothered. My feeling on it is that if he’s going to leave me for another woman then she can have him. I wouldn’t want him anymore.

    As for exes, TenderCD speaks well of all of his exes except for his ex-fiance. They went through a pretty rough and dramatic breakup so I empathize…though I prefer he not talk about her because he speaks negatively of her, and I don’t tolerate that. One of his exes emails him once or twice a year to say hi and that seems fine to me, I have exes who reach out every now and then too. He’s so open about it…there is no reason for me to feel nervous. If he were HIDING something that would concern me though even then I’d default to trust first.

  39.  #39Femininewoman on February 10, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    GG I am the same way but I find it depends on the mood I am in and the person I am with. If I am in a place where I am insecure about my body or with someone who is insecure about theirs I don’t think it is the time to do that. How I see things that make it different is if the person makes a point in complementing me first then share that. You know the Gottman 5 positive to 1 criticism thing. I find for me it reduces the sting and so it is easier to minimize the trigger internally.

  40.  #40Femininewoman on February 10, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    RE 37 I do Azure Blue. Just that I think it might be an email not a blog post.

  41.  #41Zara on February 10, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s blog : If He’s In An Emotional Relationship With Another Woman — Do This

    Have you ever felt so helpless over a “friendship” your man has with a woman that you can’t control your jealousy? Where the urge to STOP him is so strong it’s all you can think about?

    Christine is in this situation, and she left a question for me as a comment — I thought it was so universal and powerful a question I wanted to put it in a post so everyone could read it and my answer:

    “Dear Rori,

    I can’t begin to tell you how much I hate myself right now! I am jealous and insecure over my fiance’s friend from work. She is going through a nasty divorce and just lost her dad to cancer recently. My fiance is trying to be her friend (as he says) because he’s been through what she is going through, he had a nasty divorce and lost his grandpa to cancer last year.

    He says that he still loves me and wants myself and his co-worker to be friends eventually. But how do I get past this jealousy that I feel since they have a connection that I don’t have? This feeling caused me to accuse him of cheating on me (something he has never done) because family and friends have told me that because he is trying to be friends with her and is pulling away from me is trying to tell me that he wants to end it by cheating.

    Please help me I don’t want to lose him! He is the only man that has ever loved me for me, I don’t want to throw away 3 years of a normally great relationship up to now. Christine.”

    ***Here’s my answer:

    Whoa, Christine – okay–get OFF the train you’re on.

    Just step off the jealousy train. Step OFF.

    Now get on another train. This train is LOVE FOR CHRISTINE!! I want you to hug yourself and love yourself SO hard you feel safe in your own arms.

    Now– this is an emotional thing he has with this woman. If you try to step into it — you will LOSE.

    Instead – you must build your self-confidence – double it – triple it…and get REALLY BUSY. This means activities, classes, FUN THINGS! I want you SMILING ALL THE time.

    AND – I want you VULNERABLE. You’re going to have to out-girl this other woman, and you can’t do it by creating some drama for yourself. You’re going to have to do it with Feeling Messages – and they’re going to have to be happy, positive, passionate ones.

    Come up with some ideas…post them here – everyone – please help with ideas (and I’ll write a new post around this) to be vulnerable in a happy way instead of a negative way. Complaining here will do you in. You cannot see her as a competitor. You’re going to have to BEAT this jealousy thing and prevail over your man’s heart in a different way — and that way is marked “GIRL”!!

    I also want you to flirt your ass off out there when he’s not with you – this is Circular Dating within a relationship. We’ll all help, and the Targeting Mr. Right category here will give you some basics…Love, Rori

    ***Now that I’ve had time to digest the question and my answer — I KNOW it’s easy for me and you to tell Christine to shift gears lightening fast.

    Many, many men have female friends they don’t want to lose — friends YOU will have to become friends with or at least tolerate HIM being friends with. This means lunches, dinners…all kinds of things he might not want to give up.

    Most men would get that this isn’t going to work when they’re in a romantic, serious relationship. Most men get that women are jealous and will not tolerate another woman around their man.

    And yet, there are plenty of men who don’t know this, don’t care to know this, and if they did know it (when you tell them) — they will accuse you of being insecure, jealous, and having low self-esteem.

    And some men just don’t want to be told what to do.

    Here’s my take — we’re all different, and some of us can handle a bunch of other women in our man’s life, and most of us can’t. Or at least — don’t WANT to.

    And, you know — that’s enough to say NO to a man. Some things are dealbreakers.

    If it’s one for you (as it was for me when I got serious with my husband) — you have to catch it early, you have to share with him that this won’t work for you and is a dealbreaker, and then simply not invest yourself in this man.

    Marriage is supposed to be great. It’s supposed to be best friends and passion — and it’s supposed to be a team.

    Asking a man to give up his friends is not a good thing. A man will just sort of naturally dial back on the friendships with other women. And know this — if he was interested in her, she would be more than a friend.

    An old girlfriend is not a threat to you except in these two ways —

    >>She’s a “backup” for you, emotionally. When things go wrong in your relationship, instead of working on things with you, he can go to her. And…

    >>She takes up emotional room.

    And none of that feels good.

    A “new” woman friend is something that can happen through work and sports and hobbies — and would be totally unacceptable. At least for me.

    If this woman “needs” him – she’s “outgirling” Christine and allowing him to use his masculine energy with her and feel very manly about it. Because her situation seems more legitimate for needing him, she is vulnerable rather than demanding. Cancer and loss beats jealousy and insecurity.

    Christine’s jealousy — the way she’s expressing it, is working against her.

    And she’s in an impossible situation. The more she worries about his connection with this woman, the more she feeds it.

    If she would focus her energy on herself, instead, and ramp up the attraction between her and her man instead of obsessing, thinking about him all the time and essentially dialing DOWN the attraction — he would likely move further away from this other woman and closer to Christine.

  42.  #42Zara on February 10, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s blog: He’s Staying Over At His Ex-Girlfriend’s House – What To Do…

    Here’s a piece of a comment from Roxanne
    “Rori, I have been in a relationship for over 2 yrs now. He loves me, treats me like a queen. Made commitments to me but continues to sleep over at his x girlfriends saying she is just a x and is doing secretary work only. They split over 4 yrs ago he lives out of town…So when here he stays with me 8-15 nites a month and then he also sleeps at her place when not with me. I feel like musical beds…He says he does not sleep with her or have sex but I question this. He does tell me he loves me not something he tells others…

    (Note from Rori – at this point, accepted a simple date with another man, and her man got angry…)

    “I made a comment that he was free to do as he wanted – he was a free bird and so was I. If he wanted musical beds then so be it. But I would not clip his wings and I too am free…He left here angry an stomped out…Was this wrong or the dating thing since he had committed to me and we had discussed our relationship prior and I did explain to him I was confused and I needed him to help me understand his need to still sleep over there…when I am just less then a few blocks away… Did I make a mistake to try to date?

    Here’s my answer:

    Roxanne, the first thing I want to tweak seriously here is the order of things:

    If you’ve “agreed” to “Exclusivity,” if you’re already IN the “Girlfriend Trap” – you have to TALK first, then date.

    If you HAVEN’T officially made a commitment to exclusivity – you can date first, and THEN talk.

    You’ve allowed your frustration and anger (justified, yes) to run you, here.

    What you have is a man who is not ready to “commit” – if commitment means to you living in the same house, perhaps even married.

    Therefore – it’s an absolute TRAP for you to commit to ANY kind of exclusivity other than sexual – if that’s what you want (many women don’t require that – but that’s not me, and I don’t know too many women who could thrive in a non-exclusive sexual relationship – but I do know several, each quite amazing and unusual, yet I know it wouldn’t work for me).

    You must Circular Date until you have the exact commitment you DO want. And clearly, you don’t have the commitment you want.

    Now – under your current “contract” – he’s got you as a steady girlfriend – whenever he wants you, and he can hang out with his “friend” whenever he wants to.

    There’s not a man on the planet who doesn’t know what “commitment” means – it means living with YOU, not in two or three separate places – and he’s not at that stage yet.

    The thing is – you can’t DATE other men out of spite. You can’t do it to get back at him, or to ASSERT your “freedom.” You do it for you. So that YOU feel sane, like you’re not waiting around. So you feel strong enough to be VERY SOFT when he DOES show up. In other words, so you’re not ANGRY with him for living his life the way he wants to live his life right now.

    If you’re angry and resentful – it’s not because of what HE’S doing – it’s because you feel you’re compromising yourself, you feel stuck, you feel like you’re committing too much of your heart and time and energy to him and not getting it in return. It’s very important to “match” a man at the very most. the moment you start doing and feeling MORE – you’re going to feel angry and resentful.

    So – this is something you’re in control of. Where you focus, and how you treat yourself. If you treat yourself wonderfully, you can feel open and loving with him, and that’s what you want.

    HOWEVER – you DID make the exclusivity commitment – so if you’re going to break it – and you already have, and you MUST – this is how you do it (and then I’ll tell you what to do now…):

    1. You Date Yourself. Get dressed up and go out where there are men and –

    2. Flirt. Smile, hold eye contact, practice leaning back and Receiving.

    So – you can STILL do those NOW. And I want you to go out and do that. It’s not about HIM – it’s to make YOU feel better, stronger, more attractive. And then –

    3. You TALK to your man. Share that you’re feeling unsettled, and you know things are off and that you’ve upset him by dating, and that you feel upset and angry about where the relationship is at, and is he open to talking about it now. (And if not now, make an appointment.)

    Share that you’re “looking for the whole enchilada – that it would feel great to live with him all the time, and that until he’s ready to move out of his ex-girlfriend’s house, you’d like to keep all your options open.”

    He’ll say – “But I’m not DOING anything with her – she’s just a friend – and it’s my office” -he’ll go on and on making no sense at all to you, but perfect sense to him.

    You say: “I hear you. I hear that you love me and want to be with me, and that this living arrangement is very convenient for you, and I understand. And what I want is a relationship where we live together, go to bed together every night, wake up together every morning, and spend our free time with each other. I don’t want another woman in the picture. I understand that this isn’t where you’re at right now, and you’re entitled to have things the way you want. And yet, it doesn’t feel good to me to be exclusive with you under these circumstances. I would NEVER sleep with or have sex with anyone but you, and I’m trusting that you aren’t, as you say you aren’t sleeping with (ex-girlfriend’s name here) or anyone else – and yet, I need to keep my options open for coffee dates and lunch dates, even dinner dates – so that if there’s a man out there who’d like what I want, he can find me. It just doesn’t feel good to WAIT for you in this way.”

    And that’s a “Speech” – you do it one sentence at a time, and listen to him in-between your sentences – REALLY listen, at Level 2 (Listening at Level 2 is in my ebook) when he speaks.

    After you get this straight, you may feel sad if he doesn’t step up right away (give him time) – but you won’t feel angry.

    Your anger isn’t because of what he’s doing, it’s because of what YOU’RE tolerating and the effort YOU are putting out.

    Please let me know if you’re in this same situation as Roxanne, I’ll reply to your comments as well.

    Roxanne – try this, let me know how it works – even if all you do is just CONSIDER doing this and practice putting together a Speech.

  43.  #43Gemini Goddess on February 10, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    (((Azure Blu, Labbit, Femininewoman, and Zara)))-

    Thank you SO much. I feel so heard, and so loved. It feels wonderful and I thank you all!

    Thank you so much for the insight.

  44.  #44Gemini Goddess on February 10, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Massive unprocessed riff… because I really want to get past this. It’s not acceptable to me anymore, so step 1:

    When I think D still has feelings for his ex I feel tight in my throat and like I want to run away from him. I don’t want him to touch me.
    I feel un-cherished and un-special
    I feel like they have a bond we will never have
    I am afraid they have a bond I will never have
    I am afraid men like my sparkly packaging and not my insides
    I’m afraid that since she much less sparkly and has so many issues it is evidence he must have very deep feelings for her
    I’m afraid that since I am more sparkly, he focuses on that and not have the deep feelings for me
    I am afraid that no one will have deeply bonded feeling for me, though they are happy to “show me off”
    Wondering why men are with me makes me feel sick and sad
    I don’t want to wonder why someone is with me
    I am afraid I am lacking whatever causes men to have deep bonded feeling with my essential being
    I am afraid I am not lovable on the deepest level
    I am afraid I’ll never be able to truly lean back if that’s what makes men bond with us on the deepest level
    I’m afraid that this very hideous insecurity is what prevents me from leaning back and so becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
    I don’t want any of these feelings
    I’m afraid she was truly leaned back and that’s why he loved her
    I’m SO embarrassed that I’m so insecure
    I’m embarrassed about why I’m insecure
    I DO NOT like these ugly secret dark parts
    I do not like being embarrassed by them
    Everyone has dark parts
    It’s okay that I’m insecure
    My insecurity means I care and feel deeply
    My insecurity is my vulnerability
    Vulnerability is beautiful
    I’m having a hard time believing that
    Men are always attracted to how confident and attractive I am
    Maybe men will BOND with my vulnerability
    I want to love my insecurity
    My insecurity feels so humiliating
    My throat feels tight and I want to run away from everything and everyone again
    I want to find some way to step up out of this even a little bit
    I desire to overcome this on my deepest level
    I desire it, therefor it shall be so…there’s a step
    I love myself for having the depth to be concerned about this
    My concern is my beautiful vulnerability
    My deep desire to be deeply lovable is my beautiful vulnerability
    I love my desire to be lovable
    I love my desire so much
    I want to know a man is with me because he is uniquely bonded to ME
    Having other things going for me does not preclude ME from being deeply lovable
    I love ALL the things about me including my insecurity and desire to be deeply lovable
    A man worthy of me will see past the sparkle, and deeply bond with my essential being
    I love that I’m willing to go here and try to sort this out instead of continuing to walk around numb and un-bonded to anyone
    I love myself so much for being vulnerable and for doing all this work
    I will continue to fill myself up with love
    I am very lovable
    As I fill myself with more and more love, I will be more and more sure that a man is with me because he loves ME. It will feel familiar and comfortable to me like a big warm cozy blanket. I will come to expect it, and will have not doubt.

  45.  #45Gemini Goddess on February 10, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    It occurs to me that I’m giving men very little credit. I’m assuming them all to be emotional bimbos. Maybe I could raise my expectations there.

  46.  #46Mistea1 on February 10, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    GG 45,

    I wrote to Lotus a few posts back about reading Kosher Lust by Rabbi Boteach.

    In the book he kind of takes the men to task for not taking their share of the responsibility.

    He says women want to be desired and he tells the men exactly how to do this. Maybe reading this will give an idea of what to expect of men in this area.

  47.  #47Tereana on February 10, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Hallo, ladies! Happy almost-Valentine’s Day 🙂

    Sorry I’m not too involved in the blog when I post. I actually do read a fair number of your comments, but then I just like to use the space to process a lot of my own experience…

    Anyway, there has been kind of a result of my whirlwind week of dating three men. Man1 seemed to be coming on in a strong, masculine way that said “boyfriend” to me. Man2 was the one I was having a really fun time with. And Man3 was the awkward hug guy, no sparks.

    Well, man3 I was possibly the most excited to meet. But he fell off the radar right away. He didn’t ask for a second date, and I wasn’t disappointed. I wasn’t feeling it.

    Man1, like I said, seemed like the best “candidate” – there was only one problem: I didn’t really like him. And I didn’t like kissing him.

    And here is something I am proud of – I actually called him to tell him I didn’t want to date him anymore. And it was wonderfully drama-free! I felt good about following my gut. And now I have strong confirmation I made the right choice, except I feel sick to my stomach. I found a message from him that I hadn’t seen yet, in which he offered to introduce me to a woman friend of his who is “friend with benefit.” Eeeeewwww! Yucky yuck yuck. I feel so grossed out. I don’t know why he sent that to me or why he thought I’d be interested. I feel grossed out thinking he has a “friend with benefit.” He was coming onto me as if he were a monogamist. Eeeeewwww. Anyway. That’s done with.

    And man2…well, when I wrote my last post, I realized that he was actually the best of the bunch. I hadn’t realized until then. But he really has been stellar. He walks me home after dates, even in the snow. He bought me flowers last week. And the other day, after walking me home, I decided to let him – well, actually I insisted he stay army house because there was a big snow storm happening. We ended up having a whole snow day in which we cuddled and made out, but did not have sex (at my request).

    And…oddly…I did not totally hate him after spending that much time with him!! In fact, when he left, I could have spent even more time with him. That’s literally never happened to me, with anyone. I need to “take breaks.” I need alone time. But I like him more and more. And I’m able to talk about what concerns me, and he responds in ways that are healthy for me, and where I feel supported.

    Let me not oversell it. He’s still new. I’m still trying to figure out “what” it is, but not pushing for a definition – letting him lead the way. But out of the 3, he definitely came out on top…we’ll see what’s next!

  48.  #48Beloved on February 10, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    It feels so…interesting and different to not feel invisible.
    TG actively seeks me out to hang talk to and hang out with him when I’m home, which feels new and different and surprising.
    I felt a couple of squirmy moments tonight…he started talking about his ex and how she’s moving and had invited him over Thursday night and he’s having a girl over Saturday night and he’s kind of a slut (I am NOT one to slut-shame anyone of any gender, so I didn’t feel icky about that). I did kind of redirect my attention to other stuff…I wouldn’t say it felt uncomfortable to hear about it per se, but I did wonder if maybe this wasn’t a good idea.
    He has nothing but good things to say about her, just said they got really close, started to get serious, he was exclusive with her and then after a long weekend of closeness with her and her family, she started pushing him away and insisted on NC, then kind of flip-flopped when he respected that and didn’t contact her. He didn’t call her any names, and he said she was a lot of fun and he knew he wasn’t going to drive 2 hours to see her in her new town, and she wouldn’t do that for him.
    I don’t know. On the one hand, he owns the house, is my landlord and housemate.
    On the other hand, I do feel…not exactly attraction, but…something. Like, I don’t ever feel PULLED or ATTRACTED to him, I like some things about him and some other things I feel uncomfortable with.
    I feel scared of getting sucked into “counseling” and “therapy” territory.

    I feel happy and grateful that this is the worst of my man and relationship problems, lol 🙂

    I have a new CD and I got to practice being open about having celiac disease with him. Nobody is acting all weird like I felt scared they would. CoffeeCD said, “Oh, I have a friend with celiac and I have been perfecting new dishes to cook for him and his wife.”

  49.  #49Beloved on February 10, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    I seem to remember an article or someone posting about the guy talking about exes, about how we listen because we feel curious and still maybe not in our best interests. And does this apply when it’s my housemate?

  50.  #50Indigo on February 10, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I agree with Gemini Goddess. I have realized that very little needs to be said. Once you have explained your feelings on something once, maybe twice, you do not need to do so again. I have observed that men are usually perfectly well aware what they are doing, at least on some level. For my part, I feel that we owe them the respect of seeing them as fully grown adults being responsible for and making their own choices. So, drawing a boundary usually gets you to see whether they are willing change something to make you happy. Leaning back does this as well I find – when you lean back and give them the space to make their own choices, the man is forced to reevaluate what he is willing to do to have you in his life.

    Anyway, my point was that I agree with GG. I think it’s great that not too much discussion is necessary 🙂

  51.  #51Beloved on February 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    ” I have realized that very little needs to be said. Once you have explained your feelings on something once, maybe twice, you do not need to do so again. I have observed that men are usually perfectly well aware what they are doing, at least on some level.”

    Yes, this.
    I told a POF guy that I don’t like texting and that’s not what I was looking for, before I gave him my number.
    So what does he do?
    Texts me.
    He even texted, “I know you don’t like texting, but this is the way it has to be while I’m at work.”
    Then more texts. About nothing. How’s your day, hope school is going good kind of stuff.

    What the wha now? I haven’t even met this guy.
    I feel baffled and amused and giggly thinking about it.
    There’s a phrase that comes to mind, “I can show you better than I can tell you.”
    Needless to say, I won’t be answering his texts.
    He knows he is welcome to call.
    I feel so giggly about it, it’s just making me laugh and laugh. It’s too funny.
    It feels so good to feel so free.

  52.  #52Indigo on February 10, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    When D and I first got together, he spoke about an ex of his, he mentioned her a few times, there was quite a bit of energy around it and it made me feel sooo jealous – just exactly like you, that they had a bond which I could never compete with, and that because she had left him, she was immortalised in his mind. Yes, these were some of the thoughts I had! I laugh when I think back on it now. Because, as I healed from these beliefs, so I noticed that the energy around this girl evaporated completely on his part. He never mentions her now, I can’t even remember the last time he did, and if he does happen to, it is only in passing and with no energy attached to it. Over a period of time, I made myself confront the truth of this particular scenario, and that made me realise that it was simply my nasty voices which were telling me these things to make me feel bad, to make me feel not good enough. It was old programming and there was no truth to it, and I came to see this over time, and poof! The issue was gone altogether. My suggestion for you, from my experience, is that you, little by little, unravel these thoughts, feelings and beliefs, and hold them up to the truth. My guess is that you will find that its hold on you becomes less and less until one day it is just not there any more. I sometimes think ex-girlfriends are the ghosts of the past that we project a lot of our own stuff onto – our own feelings of unworthiness. But you CAN say goodbye to them, you can move past this to a better place.

  53.  #53Azure Blu on February 10, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    Indigo #50…
    Thank you …. oxox

  54.  #54Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 12:16 am

    On the topic of ex-girlfriends, attractive actresses etc., I find myself in a situation with F. where some things I live very much and others I don’t.
    He is extremely complimentary to me, says I am the prettiest woman on earth, whenever we are discussing an actress he says “oh but you are so much prettier than her” which I find to be very sweet of him. Also, I do not think what he says is just a compliment. What I mean by this is that I personally find HIM to be so hot, just so hot, I find him hotter than any men I have met in real life or on the screen, I would choose HIM always as the more attractive man. So, if this is how I feel about him, I am pretty sure that what he says to me is true to him.
    At the same time, when we go out, because he is so good looking and a charmer, women are always pushing themselves onto him, and he loves it. He loves the attention, basks in the light…
    You know if I could lock him up and not let any other woman see him, I would do that. I know how stupid it sounds.
    Last time I got jealous like that, we were at a french restaurant, a couple of months ago, and the waitress was this young and pretty French woman. She spoke our native language and F., complimented her on speaking it so well. He did not say she had a charming French accent, but I thought the thought myself, and got so jealous. Just from him noticing her, and smiling at her, and her being nice to him (which I know is her job but still). I want him to have eyes for me only. Oh well. I love myself anyhow even with the jealosy streak. What can you do.

  55.  #55Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 12:18 am


    Your story about texting man made me laugh as well.

    I find this kind of texting so draining. Especially when you have said that you don’t enjoy texting. For the life of me I cannot understand what these endless texts saying “how was your day?” from men you hardly know are about. For me, it shows that in their low-effort way they are trying to build attraction, but it just turns me right off.

    I find it so funny that he said “I know you don’t like texting but this is the way it has to be”. WHY? Why does it have to be this way??? :p

  56.  #56Millie on February 11, 2015 at 12:58 am

    Andrea 7–

    A lie, no matter how little, sets me into a spin of anxiety and discomfort…partly because I try to trust someone who I don’t actually trust. I don’t know how comfortable you feel confronting him about the photo…but I’ve found that saying something, calling it out, makes me feel more truthful. I know that sometimes, knowing is enough…but I like to show my value on truth, and how fragile it can be…I see one little lie as a step to a big lie. Recently I suspected a man to be deceiving me and I addressed it in an approachable way…and he responded completely confused and it turns out what I suspected was completely wrong!! To my relief…. But I feel like, addressing builds congruency. When a persons actions and words don’t line up, oh its the worst feeling in the world to me…I feel so icky and their inauthenticity causes me to withdraw.

    I know RR guy lights your fire…but after I heard his little lie, my idea of who he was completely changed. I know see him as a convenient liar and to me…it all falls into place. I see him telling you what you want to hear….and ick.

    I don’t know if that is accurate or not…but you are such a smart, amazing woman that regardless of what he’s doing, I’m sure you will utilize every moment and blossom further like a beautiful vine reaching to the sky, blooming with every new encounter.

  57.  #57Millie on February 11, 2015 at 1:05 am

    Feminine woman 25– I really love how you phrased this.

    Rori’s response to Mary made me feel so inspired and ready to conquer my world. while my love life is fantastic! (for once) my job is leaving me MISERABLE. I have to own my life and cultivate my beautiful garden of a career. To tell you all the truth, I don’t even know if I want to continue in this career….I wish I could abandon it all and become a horsewoman, have a house where I grow my own food, cook from scratch, rescue dogs, ride horses…. but I know I truly love design. I know I love what I do….just not where I’m doing it anymore. Sigh….

  58.  #58Millie on February 11, 2015 at 1:10 am

    Beloved 51– too funny!!! I wonder how long he’ll text himself until he gets the message!

  59.  #59Millie on February 11, 2015 at 1:16 am

    Waterfall guy brought up marriage. He brought it up. I asked him jokingly–oh are we skipping the gf/bf stage and going straight into husband/wife. (I haven’t done a no-girlfriend speech. Partly because I’m not oppose to it right now as long as its a stepping stone to marriage…which I did tell him that) He asked what I would say to that….To be quite honest I am shocked. Everything I learned about being a Siren, embodying myself is coming true. He seems like he’s made a decision about me and he knows what he wants. He’s a step or two or three ahead of me for sure… I told him if he was serious…we could talk about it…as he’s out of town right now. I’d rather talk face to face about marriage. And that gives me time to think about what I want and how to say it. Anyway, I just thought it was amazing that all of this just came to me…without any effort. Rori was right…is right.

  60.  #60Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 1:45 am

    I am so happy for you!
    And yes, Rori’s stuff works. It works so well, it is scary.
    So what are you going to do next?

  61.  #61Femininewoman on February 11, 2015 at 2:40 am

    Millie!!!! 🙂 Really nice!

  62.  #62Sophie on February 11, 2015 at 4:43 am

    Millie it feels so good to hear this. I feel all smiley for you 🙂

  63.  #63Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 4:56 am

    Zara, thank you for reposting those articles from Rori! I feel contemplative after reading each of them…they give me a lot to think about. I think the message is clear though in both cases that the way out of most dramas is concentrating on loving ourselves, filling up our lives with things that have nothing to do with our men, and learning how to really be the girl in touch with ourselves and then share that with him through feeling messages.

    48 Beloved — I have male friends that I have harmlessly flirty relationships with, in some cases there’s mutual attraction but for various reasons it will never turn into a relationship, and these men are so great for helping me uncover and heal triggers! Since the stakes are much lower with them it’s easier to, as Indigo said in her recent comment, confront the truth of the triggers which is often some old gremlin inside of me trying to make me feel like less. I’m so thankful to have these guys in my life. No matter what happens with your housemate he is a gift for you right now — you are the Prize and he’s been put in your life to help build your Siren skills even more!

    On the texting front I quickly grew tired of extending text sessions too. Modern technology makes it SO easy to disrupt the natural courting process — men and women can get to know each other without ever meeting face-to-face, and the more you know the more you can find fault with each other even when these faults would be easy to swat away had you discovered them in person.

    For this reason, I rarely answer texts that aren’t about setting up dates. Even with TenderCD to this day. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt if he opens asking how my day is going, but if it keeps sliding down from there into boring daily stuff then I simply give him a choice of whether he wants to invest in me or not. When I was CD’ing many men if a man would ask if I text or keep sending me superficial messages I’d try something light-hearted first, like:
    – “I enjoy texting about as much as you probably enjoy all-night phone conversations.”
    – “Texting is about as much fun for me as filling out my time-card at the end of a pay period.”

    Etc. And then I’d give him the choice, of either investing in me or not.

    -“If you’re too busy to meet in person this week I understand. Would you prefer to plan a date for next week?”
    – “You know, I like to relax in the evenings and texting feels like work to me. I feel much more alive talking to someone in person.

    Or, last option, I’d wait a few days and then respond with:
    “Hey! How’s your day? I’ve been so busy lately myself.”

    Most of these men fell off which is a blessing because they’re not the kind of men who’d do relationship well anyway. But some of them, the most masculine of the men by far, liked the challenge and rose to it magnificently.

  64.  #64Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 5:19 am

    @ Azure Blu,
    I was fascinated by your story about asking Spirit to leave.
    The part I most strongly relate to is having one more glass of wine which is the fatal one. I love red wine, it is so difficult to me to restrain myself to 1-2 glasses… after the second glass, the third one seems like a good idea, all of a sudden.
    And for me, this is the end of being able to lean back, and not ask questions and not make demands. And the thing is, I do not feel drunk or anything from three glasses of wine (what is the definition of drunk anyway?), I feel absolutely fine, and it seems to me I am making very good decisions (really!) which then lead to catastrophic results.

  65.  #65Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 5:47 am


    Just today I had to tell a guy, CH, that daily texting felt like far too much for me. I was feeling overwhelmed, and resenting it, if truth be told.

    He wanted to book me for Valentine’s Day, and I just don’t want to. I don’t quite have the words, does anyone feel like helping me come up with a script? The honest truth of it is that days like Valentine’s Day come loaded with meaning for me, and if I’m not spending it with someone I’m truly in love with, I’d rather spend it by myself. I initially told him a grand date on Valentine’s Day felt like too much too soon, and asked if we could do something more lowkey like a breakfast, but now I don’t want to do even that.

    I know this is my trigger – of wanting to spare someone’s feelings and be people pleasing – I am feeling a bit frazzled from a hectic week at work and lots going on in my life, and the most loving thing I could do for myself on Valentine’s Day would be to give myself some rest and alone time, or alternatively spend it with someone I’m very comfy with, like D. I feel overwhelmed at the thought of spending it with a near stranger. I don’t want to.

    Do I just come out with it? Just straight up – “I am feeling frazzled from a hectic week at work and it would feel better to me to spend Valentine’s Day resting?”

  66.  #66Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 6:03 am

    Indigo yes I’d come straight out with it. I understand worrying about pleasing him and I do think in this case some TLC is called for. I’d probably say something like “I am having so much fun getting to know you and I would feel very pressured having a date on Valentine’s Day while we are getting to know each other. I don’t want to feel pressured..what do you think?”

    Something like that.

  67.  #67Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:07 am

    Indigo #50
    YES, YES and YES…
    I too find endless text sooo draining…
    My last BF -BK – would NOT text
    so when Spirit text I liked it but struggled with keeping up…
    I got used to it a little with Spirit
    it’s his Fav way to keep in touch alll day…
    He didn’t ask how I was…
    he loved to text photos of his family…
    videos of the birds outside his window which he feeds…
    shopping at Kroger’s, getting cold medicine…
    funny things like that…
    But the last month he’d been calling a lot MORE…
    which I liked…
    the new CD- FA – is also a texter with
    How are you? too much way too soon…
    I haven’t been responding much…
    I’m letting this one fall off my radar…
    no spark

  68.  #68Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Millie #56
    You brought up a good point…
    Everyone hates to be lied to…
    BUT unless we address the incident, as you mention,
    how will we know if we are correct about it being a lie…
    I thought I caught Spirit in a couple of lies…
    BUT I never addressed them and asked him…
    I will keep that in mind for the next time a CD sounds dishonest.
    Thank you

  69.  #69Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Do you think there is a chance that D will want to do something with you on Valentines? How has it been in the past years?
    If I were in your shoes (yes, I know, we are very different), I would take up CH’s invitation. The guy is doing great from what you have told here, and his biggest sin is that he texts too much…If I was absolutely sure that I do not want to go out with him, I would come up with a white lie – that I am needed for a family situation and simply can not go out with him on that day, but would happy to see him any of the next days. I know this is against the sireny rules of always speaking your truth and being authentic… I just still have a lot to learn. I hope someone comes with a better idea for you… I feel so lame.

  70.  #70Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Labbit, thank you

  71.  #71Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:18 am

    Victoria #64…
    yes,,, You do understand…
    I’m going out with my Girlz tonight…
    Great time to practice the 1-2 glasses for MY happiness!

  72.  #72Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 6:20 am

    I had a fantastic date with F. yesterday, and, as I know for sure now, after some great time together, he needs to go back to his cave. In the early stages of the relationship, this was driving me up the wall. Now I know, after intimacy I need more intimacy, and he simply needs rest/time away. So, I have adapted. I am prepared, and I am watching him. And, I have decided, that this time I will just leeean back some more. He called me today, but did not ask to see me, and I know tonight he has a night shift. I was sweet and loving but also quite busy, so I excused myself and bid him good buy. I know he will be expecting me to call him tonight at his work (this is basically a tradition between us) and I have decided I will not do it. I have a few things I will be doing lined up, and I will just not call him. He needs the time to miss me to fall deeper in love with me, isn’t it so?

  73.  #73Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:25 am

    This is my humble thoughts…
    Given your leaning back with D…
    Valentine’s seems like just the day NOT to be available for him….
    If he hasn’t booked you by now…
    I’m sure it will feel GREAT to be with him…
    BUT i’m thinking, Labbit would strongly suggest
    to be VERY busy on that day…( I do too)
    Bask in the adoration of someone
    WHO wants to be with you…
    Has stepped up and made A DATE…
    Easy for me to say…
    I think I’ll take my own advice on this one!

  74.  #74Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:28 am

    Victoria #72…
    Yes, lovely Siren… this sounds very self loving!

  75.  #75Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 6:31 am


    He has been doing great, he has not put a foot wrong in fact. He is sweet and gentlemanly and I like him.

    How I feel is so impossible to explain unless you are very introverted and sensitive like me, and in this case it is a simple case of overwhelm, with an easy cure – rest. My phone has been ringing about things to do with the flat, lawyers and estate agents, I’ve been run off my feet by my boss at work this week, I’ve had decisions to make… and I’ve fit in some social calls on top of that. I’m just tired, that’s all. The emotional overwhelm of being with a guy I’m not yet in love with on Valentine’s Day, when most guys can read me like a book, is just too much. I need to dial it back, for my own wellbeing.

    As for whether D will do anything… it’s impossible to say. Last night he organized the most romantic night for us and I just had the MOST wonderful time, I wanted to completely melt into him, he was being lovely. But I’ve decided to take Dominique’s advice and not expect anything – to be happy even if nothing at all happens on that day. I have resolved to treat myself to something anyway.

  76.  #76Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 6:33 am

    I’ve just got off the phone with CH, he was very understanding and said he will give me a call next week.

    Azure Blu, I agree this is a good time to not be available to D. But I DO want to be available to myself, slathering myself with loving TLC and rest 🙂

  77.  #77Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 6:39 am

    Victoria 69,

    🙂 You know, one of the resolutions I made for myself this year was that I would always speak my truth with a man, even if it felt hard. And I was just honest with CH. I said I don’t want you to think that I don’t like you, because I do. I am just feeling very tired and frazzled and I need some down time, and it feels like too fast.

    This is the honest simple truth of the matter. When things feel a bit much for me, like they do at the moment, I usually choose to curl back in on myself, and ease into it. Last night with D there were some more beautiful, subtle breakthroughs to do with me leaning back and receiving from him, and it all just has me feeling a bit overstimulated I guess 🙂

  78.  #78Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Oh darling Indigo…
    I feel you so well.
    When I am in love with someone, and the man is treating me nicely and I have a great time with him, there is no force in the universe that can make me spend Valentine’s with another man…
    And I am not introverted or sensitive … I think I have a pretty thick skin actually…
    For me, I know we will do something together, we always do for Valentine’s so I am not thinking about it. I had a different issue about it – that I always gave him gifts (small ones) for Valentines whereas he gave me nothing (but of course paid for us at a reastaurant). The first year I gave him a book and some chocolates, last year I had bought him a bigger present but deciced last minute not to give it to him (I gave it to him a month or so later) and he just gave me a rose… I love gifts, both giving and receiving, but I am now done with the overfunctioning (hopefully forever). So, I will not be getting him anything this year. And I can tell you, my hands are really itchy, I see so many things that would be a lovely gift for him. But, no more. I will go and buy something for myself, and will spend an outrageous amount of money for it, so that I could really be penny-less for him. Yes.

  79.  #79Andrea on February 11, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Oh my goodness: My Italian… oh my goodness.

    Yesterday I was having a run of those frustrating texts from a man who has been wanting to meet me. He texts me, he facebook friends me, he texts me some more. Yesterday he asked me via text: So when are we going to get together?

    UGH!!! I texted back: I feel confused by this question and honestly don’t know how to respond.

    Him: You want to meet?
    Me: Sure
    Him: Coffee or Dinner??

    All texting ick ick ick ick ick….. I texted back: I feel extremely bored and low value when a man tries to communicate with about important things via text.

    Then I stopped responding to anything he texted. He never called me. Just kept texting.

    Also: RRguy has been texting me the most romantic, sweet things. And I realized that he is texting me from his home this time. He texted me good morning, and texted me about him getting his boys ready for school, and how he misses me so much.

    I just felt so happy that he was staying in touch when he was at home that I gushed all over the place to him about how I love to hear about his boys and his life at home and etc….

    Then he stopped responding. Ugh ugh ugh….
    And I felt like… dammit… I always say too much with him. He smiles at me and I think it’s LOVE!!! Ugh. It left me feeling so needy and pushy and way too revealing. I felt ill.

    Then My Italian texted me. Out of the blue. He texted me: Hey, how you doing? You know who this is?
    And I was just so frustrated from all the texting. I responded kind of curtly. Like.. I haven’t heard from you in a week and now you’re gonna text me?

    He then texted me a question about his bill at our hotel. I was livid. I texted: OMG!! Did you just text me hotel business on my personal phone? I sent him the number to the hotel and said: call during business hours.

    Then I stopped responding to his texts all together.

    This morning what does My Italian do? He calls me. He called me because he didn’t understand if I was mad at him and why. Oh my… I wasn’t really mad at HIM. I was just frustrated with everything.
    I did my best to explain my frustrations and he said, “That attitude that I detected, I did not like that. Now I got to see a part of the real you. I didn’t like it.”

    I said, very smiling and sweet, “Well, you have every right to feel how you feel about me. This IS how I get sometimes. Edgy and irritated. And sometimes I don’t handle those feelings very well.”

    Then he really tried to lay into me about how I mistreated him. I said, “Tony, I don’t know. You’ll have to give me some time to process all of this that you’re saying. I’m gonna take this and chew on it for a little while.”

    Then he started laughing.. “What? You can’t just apologize?”

    Then I was laughing too. “I’m not feeling sorry for anything right now. Actually right now I feel very giddy and all smiles cause I get to hear your voice. You made my day calling me like this.”

    And he said, “Well, I’ll make your afternoon as well, cause now I know that if I want to talk to you about business stuff I have to call you during your business hours. So I’ll be calling you later on at the hotel.”

    Then we were both laughing and I feel good about that exchange.

    Then RRguy texted me this morning. Good morning.

    I texted him: I feel so wonderful when I hear from you that I feel nervous that I say too much, reveal too much. I feel so frustrated with all the texting.

    He texted back: Oh my beautiful sweet lady, never fear for the things you say to me. They are all the sweetest most wonderful things that anyone has ever said to me. I didn’t text you back because I was on a long twelve hour train shift and I have to shut down my phone when I’m on the train.. Oh baby, I miss you so much. I hope your day is as beautiful as you are. xxxoooxox

    Oh man… this guy has me charmed. So charmed.

  80.  #80Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Victoria 78,

    You’ve got it in a nutshell! Yes yes yes to every word!

  81.  #81Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Hm, Andrea, just hmm….

    All these guys have me longing for someone for you who is just with you – there in body, able to be with you.

  82.  #82Andrea on February 11, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Oh Millie, I hear you about the lie.

    I feel strange about RR guy because there’s a part of me that feels he’s lying to me about everything. Like, being a father of two boys and being away all the time on the railroad. I know how hard it is to be a single parent, but how can he be out of town so much and still maintain?

    And, he’s so handsome and charming. He’s very out going. How can he NOT have girls lined up in his hometown.

    And … there’s just so much that I don’t know about him. That I feel this thing with telling me a picture was taken one day, when really it was taken three weeks before… I don’t know, it seems very small compared to everything else.

    And I certainly don’t know him well enough to even know how to broach that subject.

    With him I just feel my own mistakes so heavily. Like mainly, getting involved with him physically and chemically so quickly.

    I’m pulling out, slowly. I was flailing for a little while there but I’m starting to feel more solid about YES, I am very much attracted to him, so I can keep him in my pool, but there are also why too many things that make me feel unsafe and insecure, so I no longer feel that urge to be available to him especially on a physical level.

    I’m starting to allow other men in again…. kind of exciting, fun men. And I’m starting to hone in on being able to admit that I really do want intimacy, and really am ready for a Right Here, Right Now, man in my life. One who calls me and wants to be here in my presence.

    Even though, the thought of that gives me the willies and makes me feel claustrophobic. I’m starting to trust myself that I can work through those clutching feelings with one man, and get through to the other side of intimacy.

    Everything is just practice. Not sure I’ll ever bring up that thing about the picture with RRguy. I’m just not sure I’m that interested in knowing why he felt the need to switch the dates on it. There’s just too much speculating that I am choosing to just avoid. Especially right now when all we have is essentially a texting flirtation. That’s really all we have.

  83.  #83Dominique on February 11, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Indigo – 65 – I think you can be totally honest here, vulnerable, and tell him all of this.

    – Valentine’s Day feels loaded with meaning for me, and if I’m not spending it with someone I’m truly in love with, I’d rather spend it by myself. The most loving thing I can do for myself would be to give myself some rest and alone time. –


  84.  #84Dominique on February 11, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Victoria – 78 – As much as we might love to buy gifts for people, for our man, gifts don’t carry the same meaning for most men as they do for us. They mostly couldn’t care less about gifts. Allow him to do FOR YOU. Remember masculine energy is more about doing, giving, nurturing, and feminine energy is more about being, allowing, receiving. Seeing you happy, smiling is plenty of gift for a good man.


  85.  #85Victoria on February 11, 2015 at 7:44 am

    I read what RR guy has written to you… he must have gone to the same school with F., a school where they teach that women love to hear the following things ” you are beautiful” and “nobody has ever treated me so well”.
    You know F. is this dramatically good looking guy, and he almost made me believe that before me he has been dating only ugly women all of who were really mean to him :-).
    He never texted me though. With him, at the beginning, it was endless phone calls, without making arrangements to see me, and we are in the same city! But I was very patient, and we grew from having real contact once a month (except for the long phone calls which I both loved and hated) to seeing each other 3-4 days a week, we are now past the 3 year mark. I am calculating that with this speed, in only three more years I will be seeing him every day. Hey, no urgency here, hehehe.

  86.  #86Andrea on February 11, 2015 at 7:49 am

    Yes Indigo. I feel like that’s what i want now. I feel like I’m ready for that now.

    I’m starting to feel that all these men.. far away men… are distracting me.. from ME especially, but also from actualizing a real present man.

    It’s like I’m pushing men away still. I feel my energy going out to all these men in the periphery and none left for someone who might be much closer than I think.

    I feel the need to simply let go, untangle, from all these ties, these cords that are dragging my energy elsewhere.

    I was actually just this morning riffing out a feeling message for my boy energy: something like,

    I feel I want to pull back into myself, rest a while on my plush, soft body pillow, in my pink inner santuary. I feel I want to stay close to ME now. I’ve been feeling too much work, just even looking out there.. just even being aware of OUT THERE. I feel ready, even though I feel my stomach churning, and I feel my heart beating faster, and I feel like I’m doing something wrong…
    But I feel ready to simply feel.. enough of those far away connections. Boy Energy… come home!!!! Come back!!!! Get HERE, where I am. Focus on my fun things, my life things… my writing, my poetry, my speaking, my goals, dreams, loving me, my family, my daughters.

    I feel ready to let go. And i feel it’s okay to say, “No, you live too far away. I’m not interested in a connection with you right now, just based on that reason. That’s a good enough reason for me not to give you any of my focus or energy.”

  87.  #87Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Indigo I so get those overwhelmed feelings, I have been feeling those a lot recently too. In fact on Monday TenderCD called me and asked me out on a date that evening. Now if I were feeling great this would have been such a fun surprise! We already had plans set up for Wednesday and after accidentally running into him and his friends on Sunday I was feeling off-balance.

    So I said no. I told him the truth in feeling messages — I was feeling grumpy and off-balance and I just needed a day or two to take really good care of myself. He said he understood though he did sound a bit, I don’t know, wounded? Concerned? I’m not sure which. And I’m not worried about which either.

    Yesterday I did take really good care of myself. I had the day off from work (I don’t work a steady M-F 9-5 though I do work 40 hours a week) so I took a nice long shower, made myself up extra pretty, and ran around the city treating myself to a mix of errands and things I wanted to do. Then in the afternoon I had a surge of good feelings and felt like my Prize Catch self in a big way and sure enough TenderCD was all over me again in a wonderful way, texting me funny things and sending me flowers. The flowers were especially great because he had stopped getting me flowers…and I do love them so.

    I think with Valentine’s Day coming up this weekend I’m feeling pressure inside. I am so NOT ready to get engaged to TenderCD and yet I keep having these fantasies about what it would be like if he proposed, keep imagining different scenarios of how it could unfold. And then when I get back to reality all of a sudden I feel upset because I feel like I’m behind my goals in a way. If I’m not careful I end up feeling angry and taking it out on him which I don’t want to do.

    Right now I’m focused on treating myself really well, making sure I am NOT sitting around the apartment thinking and daydreaming all day (which is so tempting, LOL) and just noticing if I feel myself starting to jump ahead of TenderCD on the relationship timeline. Soothing myself as it were.

  88.  #88Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 8:14 am

    59 Millie — I have two friends who after 6 weeks of dating knew they were each other’s ones, and eloped at 8 weeks. We all thought they were crazy. Ten years later they are still going strong and seem to fall more in love everyday!

    If he is leading the way and it feels true inside of you then there’s no reason not to follow your heart. So long as all of your concerns are addressed and you feel safe and secure in making such a permanent commitment. For me, I’d want some more time to make sure that he’s not just being a romantic dreamer, the kind of man who has lots of grand plans and ideas but sees very few of them through to fruition. If he’s a direct, bold guy who clearly knows what he wants, well that’s aces to me!

  89.  #89Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Thank you Dominique 83 🙂

    That is what I went with in the end and it turned out very nicely.

  90.  #90Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 8:43 am

    (((Indigo #77)))
    I sooo understand… LOTS of Greatness going on in your life…
    AND a wonderful time with D!!!

    Self care sounds warm and soothing! :-))

  91.  #91Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Dominique #84…
    Ahhh.. warm Siren… such a wonderful reminder…
    Since RR I’ve gotten so much better at NOT giving to my men
    And simply be ME… and receive all they have to give…

  92.  #92Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 8:57 am

    ((((Andrea #83)))
    Ahhh… beautiful, sweet Siren…
    Listening to your Siren Song
    about letting go of long distance men…
    is ringing true for me as well.

    On POF… I have been being MUCH more
    aware of the distance between their home and mine…
    and when it is an hour or more… and in the opposite direction of the rest of my family (they are an hour away from me)…
    I decline and wish them the best…
    Too much can be hidden given that distance…
    too much pinning to see each other…
    It all seems too difficult…
    I MUCH prefer being close geographically!

  93.  #93Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Dominique 84,

    I agree with Azure Blu… I am very grateful for what you said to me about giving gifts to men, and how silly it is to tie ourselves up in knots or spend lots of effort getting gifts for them, when gifts are not really important to them anyway. D tried to tell me this, but I didn’t want to listen.

    It was just brought home to me last night, that a man’s real pleasure is in giving to a woman. While D was rushing around, making me the most delicious cocktail, making sure I had everything, that I was comfortable, offering help with things and loving every minute, it was very clear that he feels the most manly and the best about himself when he gives and I lean back.

  94.  #94Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Indigo #93
    THAT sounds Amazing… mmmm… so yummy!

  95.  #95Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Labbit #878…
    I struggle with jumping Way ahead of my BFs…
    My head and heart start Getting on this time table
    that is like a train with NO conductor

    It starts almost immediately when I start
    counting… first date, second date… and on and on
    then first month, second month…
    I’m like the Count on Sesamea street!!!
    Then I get all grumpy and lean forward and
    want to MAKE things happen in MY time table…
    I’m thinking if I can like a man who is moving forward at the same time table as me…
    Maybe this would not be such and issue
    and *I* could put on the brakes!! :-))

  96.  #96Liquid Light on February 11, 2015 at 10:05 am


    I’m concerned about your new guy. I may be way off base, and I hope I am, but your latest news about him wanting to get married coupled so quickly and that you mentioned that he wants to spend all his free time with you makes me wonder if these are red flags.

    Here are some questions to ask yourself about your relationship:

    Does he encourage you to spend time with your friends and family?
    Have you met his family, has he met yours?
    Does he encourage and support you in your career?
    Does he encourage you to spend time with your friends and have other interests besides him?
    Does he try to control you or dominate your behavior in any way?

    These are just some questions that come to mind to find out if he has a controlling and potentially abusive nature. I’m asking because I got involved with someone like this and ignored the red flags. I ended up getting my heart broken and having my life turned upside down. It was awful. He had kind of isolated me from my friends and outside life so I didn’t have a lot to fall back on. Thank goodness my family was there for me.

    I hope that I am wrong about him but just wanted to mention these things just in case. I wish someone had tipped me off early on about this guy. But he was such a master manipulator and con man, I probably wouldn’t have listened anyway. He was a classic narcissist and after the relationship ended and I did some research online, I realized how I had been played. Narcissist are all about their own needs and desires, and they will do anything to make sure their needs get met. They are very needy people and are terrified to be alone so they do whatever it takes to find a woman to prey upon, seduce and reel into their weird web of control and manipulation. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing and will seduce with their charm, winning personality, good looks, success, and sense of humor. But inside is a void, they are incapable of love or empathy.

    I encourage you to do some research and find out if he is falling into the pattern of someone who is controlling and manipulative or if he is genuine and is truly head over heels for you. I hope its the latter but you deserve to find out for yourself and get the knowledge you need to know who you are dealing with especially because this is such a new relationship.

    I’m not trying to throw water on your parade, and I really want the best for you. I know you are a great lady and you deserve a wonderful man who loves you and adores you.

  97.  #97Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 10:08 am

    95 Azure Blu — Even having a man on the same timetable might not help, if only because it could end up feeling like ‘too fast’ for you. It’s very funny how it all works!

    I think it has a lot more to do with wanting things the way we want them when we want them. 🙂 I don’t know what your life is like but in my life whenever I’ve wanted something I’ve been trained to go out and get it. I’ve always made things happen for myself from my schooling to my career to where I live, etc.

    But in relationship as the feminine-energy partner I shouldn’t have to do ANY of that. I don’t have to go out and get anything, I have to relax and let it all come to me. It really is like learning a whole new language while at the same time undoing lots of old habits that no longer serve me.

    When I feel the need to do something I keep reminding myself of what my end goal is: a wonderful relationship with a man who cherishes me. I like to pretend like it’s already here (and in truth it IS already here) and then ask myself what would I be doing then? And then I go do those things for myself. I want my behavior, my outer, to match my inner. And my inner feels very worthy of masculine love.

    A man falls in love because you’re his type and he’s not sure if you are as interested in him as he is in you! — I can’t remember where I read this but it feels true to me.

  98.  #98Mandy on February 11, 2015 at 10:33 am

    So…UGH….help if possible….

    I told J about a friend of mine who’s husband she hasn’t had sex with for 9 years, and she is going to New York to sell her art. I told him I’m getting inspiration from her, told him she’s kind of a mentor to give me ideas of how I can put myself out there artistically, and possibly make plans to move.

    J commented, “I’m sorry, but if someone’s been just okay with no sex for 9 years, and will put up with it that long, the person doesn’t strike me as the type who could do something so bold as move to New York.”

    I didn’t quote him verbatim, but do you Sirens see the oddness here? He thinks that if a woman stays complacent in a sexless relationship, she probably won’t ever do anything great.

    I don’t get it, because our relationship is sexless, so I wonder how can he not see he’s basically talking about our relationship? If it were him talking about us, He would say to me “you are complacent in our relationship, and I doubt you’ll ever make anything of your life, because you just put up with it.”


    He was basically saying my friend should ditch him. SO I wonder if he was someone else if he’d tell me to break up with him.

    Of course I can’t ever breach the subject without him cringing…


  99.  #99Beloved on February 11, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Mandy – he’s talking about how he feels about himself, not you. Best to stick to FM’s. I feel so angry hearing that. I feel churning stomach…I feel I feel I feel, I don’t want, I want, what do you think?

  100.  #100Beloved on February 11, 2015 at 10:52 am


    When you find yourself in a relationship where your girl is feeling bad – and by bad I mean itchy, defensive, tense, caught up in drama, feeling unheard and unloved — you’re in the wrong place.

    And this is where you need your boy.

    To get you out of there.

    To stop texting, to stop the calling, to stop the playing at being “friends,” stop your brain from even taking up space thinking about him.

    You need your boy to change the focus. To change HIS focus.

    Your boy he needs to change his focus from the man out there to the man inside you.

    Your boy needs to change his focus from giving a rat’s ass about what that man out there is doing, and instead — your inner boy needs to take care of you.

    He needs to get you out of there. He needs to take good care of you.

  101.  #101Mandy on February 11, 2015 at 10:55 am

    Talking about himself? Could you kindly elaborate, sweet Siren Beloved?

    I feel so comforted having you respond so quickly….

    HUGS for you Beloved….

    Fortunately I am very good with FM’s! Even if he gets upset…but if he does I just go do something to air myself out, like workout!

    Feeling message – I feel like you were talking about us when you were talking about Lori being ridiculous for staying in a sexless relationship. Essentially I am playing the same role she’s playing…sticking around even though there’s no intimacy. I am sad I had sex 5 times last year. I don’t want to live like that. I’ve said it time and time again, and I keep having to say it and stand up for myself…I don’t want a sexless relationship. You need to respect that and help me out, because I’m literally starved and desperate for affection. You are my boyfriend, your job is to keep me satisfied with affection. It’s therapy time. Go get some or I’m afraid I’ll have to rethink my life and our situation.

    That speech was probably all wrong! But at least I came up with something that can be tweaked….

    I love you Sirens…you help me so much…I love you so much…Hugs for everyone….support for you from me too…THANK YOU for hearing me and lending some understanding…you don’ know how much it means to me!!!!!

  102.  #102Mandy on February 11, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Inner boy is taking me to the gym to feel good, relaxing in the hottub…going to the Gem Show here in Tucson, the biggest Gem Show in the world…I have distractions…just not alotta money!

  103.  #103Femininewoman on February 11, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Mandy I believe if you pay attention to Rori you would see that at times she says that men will say anything but we should not pay attention to what they say but to what they do. J clearly knows, is my humble, opinion that the story is close to yours. He knows. Why would he say the same thing about you to you? You might just listen and his world would turn upside down. Also he I guess is assuming you are doing what you want to do.

  104.  #104Beloved on February 11, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    Mandy, I’d invite you to go deeper with your FMs and descibe your physical sensations, how you feel in your body with no story attaxhed.
    Class is starting, I will say more later, sorry to be abrupt.

  105.  #105Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Labbit #97
    Yes… I, like you, have taken MY life, raised myself,
    and put myself through college…
    managed my carreer, raised my 2 children
    run my household…
    Never any help (well, not until the last few years) from my family…
    Sooooo… it is like learning a NEW language…
    But it is A VERY wonderful language
    that is helping me live a MUCH more fulfilled and Happy life!! :-))

  106.  #106Femininewoman on February 11, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Labbit I totally agree with you about Millie’s situation.

  107.  #107Gemini Goddess on February 11, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Indigo 52

    Wow. wow. Just WOW. You absolutely nailed it. This is totally how I feel, and was frankly unable to fully grasp, much less define. It was like a giant, murky, yuck cloud. I so appreciate how you’re able to identify and articulate your feelings…and the encouragement and hope, too! Hopefully with some time and distance (and perspective) I’ll be able to do the same. I feel like I’m just floating weightlessly in a pool reading your response. I feel okay about my feelings, and like I’m not just destined to suffer forever. I feel understood. Huge relief. Thanks for your post, from the bottom of my heart.

  108.  #108Gemini Goddess on February 11, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Mistea1 46

    Thanks so much for the recommendation. I will definitely read the book.

    I sent D the two articles. Appropriately enough, D is Jewish, and when I sent the articles my note to him was “I’m starting to dig this Jewish thing more and more!”

  109.  #109Gemini Goddess on February 11, 2015 at 1:45 pm

    Mandy 12

    I read that book, too. French Women Don’t Get Fat, right? Loved it. I never had a weight problem until after two kids and basically hanging it up in a not-happy marriage. It took a year but I lost 30lbs and kept it off. That was three years ago. I eat and exercise almost just like she describes and am in my best, sexiest shape ever. Eating for pleasure rocks! I like pleasure. 🙂

    There are so many of those Franco-file books, and they cover diet and men and personal style, intellect, inner world cultivation. Love it all. SO Rori Raye! In a “Breakfasts with Morrie” way, I like to “create my own culture”, so I’m building those things into me.

  110.  #110Gemini Goddess on February 11, 2015 at 1:49 pm


    One more thing, my favorite guilty pleasure movie is “Dangerous Beauty” about the famous Venetian courtesan Veronica Franco. Smart…picky…worshipped by many…ahhh…..

  111.  #111Liquid Light on February 11, 2015 at 2:31 pm

    Wow, I’m feeling the siren vibe and it feels great. The guy I had a first date with last weekend, I’ll call him Finn, just called and wants to get together again after he gets back from his trip this weekend. He’s booked me for Tuesday. He said he could pick me up, he’s the one with a really nice car. 🙂

    Another guy was telling me about a B&B on the coast and says he wants to take me there. It looks gorgeous. Twist my arm 🙂 I’m not really ready to go there with him (we’ve only had one date) but its nice that he asked and that he seems so excited.

    Big siren smiles today! I’ve really been feeling the feminine siren energy recently and I can tell that the men can feel it too! 🙂

  112.  #112Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Update from me.

    I’m going to see that movie GG, sounds good

    How much longer is this going to go on? It’s been 44 days since contact. I’m busy, I’ve changed churches, I’ve been out to events.
    A friend and I drove by the church on the way home, his car was out front and I had a bit of a time after I got home.

    I read in the Rabbi’s book the section he had on the brokenness of these types of successful men whether performers or other public figures. I’m realistically coming to terms with the finality of this. He describes the situation with chilling accuracy. It answers every question I might have about this. Such as even if he did accept me it would be annihilating of me as it was before. Yet there is no denying there is a soul connection.

    So then in the midst of driving around town doing my errands a stupid, sappy love song drifts across the radio and I lost it and had to pull over. I feel like there is me and then there is this other me right alongside and she just doesn’t get it!! How much longer is this going to take?
    I’m doing minor CDing perhaps I could do more.

    At this rate I don’t even want a relationship. It’s too hard. I didn’t ask for this in the first place even though I’ll admit I have learned a lot about myself and that’s good.

    I wish this were over with. I want my happy, sassy self back! Thanks for any comments.

  113.  #113Gemini Goddess on February 11, 2015 at 3:19 pm


    Will comment more thoroughly later. For what it’s worth I think you’re VERY sassy. 🙂

  114.  #114April Rose on February 11, 2015 at 3:52 pm


    Rori says we get to make our own rules.
    So, how about making one for yourself? A very practical guideline that says “I only date men who live within an X mile radius of my house”.

    That way you wouldn’t falter, because it’s so clear cut.

  115.  #115April Rose on February 11, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    Yay, Liquid Light,

    I’m feeling inspired by you.
    I see that dating and having different men’s interest can give a boost to our self-esteem.
    Rori in her teleclass today said how important it was to have men around you who desire you.

  116.  #116Liquid Light on February 11, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Thanks April Rose!

    Something has shifted inside me. I’ve really let go of my past relationship and something shifted. When I let it go, my heart opened up and I just get that I am a desirable woman. I expect that men will want to date me and want to be with me, and guess what, that’s exactly what’s happening. You really do manifest on the outside what is on the inside. It really is that simple. And to do that, you have to clear out the garbage and the muck from the past. I know it sounds strange, but Now that I’m REALLY over my ex, I don’t wonder if someone will be attracted to me, I just know that they will. I know that it sounds arrogant but that really is how I feel. And to top it off, if they aren’t attracted to me, then I feel like “wow what a clueless guy”. Hahahaha!!!

  117.  #117lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    ohhhh misteal….

    maybe i am being too superficial…

    but….it seems if some hot cd happened to cross your path you might be over ‘it’ very fast…..

    and believe me i know your conondrum….

    for me there is a certain chemical addiction to rejection and yearning…i don’t know if this is your situation…but for myself i am having to work very hard…VERY HARD on not being attracted desiring from unavailable men….
    even with all the connections and the whys and the wherefores….if they aren’t there wanting to cherish me and make something happen with me….then i have to have to have to let go….

    i am so glad you posted this and that i am responding because this dynamic is happening for me with a CD….he was so interested me….soooo sweet, warm affectionate….playfull….
    then broke a date
    little texts here and there
    left a phone message about planning an outing…but nothing specific annnnnnnddddd i see him online all the time….

    now i am yearning more than ever from a call from him….
    and really the CALL is from my little girl inside shouting
    make me special….make me special….love me…..

    its so challenging….i know…this gigantic work….re framing, taking the focus off of them….off of their approval, response, attraction to us…..

    and putting the focus way back on myself….and letting go

    this valentines day i am cherishing myself and loving the yearning the un-requited feelings that come up from not getting what i want when i want it…i just gonna love love love myself till i’m dizzy….

  118.  #118Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    lovetodance 117,

    Yes, you are right a hot CD would do it.

    Unfortunately, MusicTd was the hottest CD in this neighborhood. In my age group they are few and far between!

    At least I know better than to want him to contact me. I fervently hope he does not.

    I just want my inner girl to find something or someone else to do. 🙂

  119.  #119lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 5:10 pm


    i hear you misteal!

  120.  #120Andrea on February 11, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    Oh Liquid Light #116 Hooray!! This makes me feel so empowered and inspired to read.

    And yes April Rose, such a great idea. Just make my own rule and that’s it.

    It’s funny but I’m being pursued by four different men.. pursued… in that they have asked me for my phone number, then texted and asked if they could facebook friend me and all four are showing up with flattering comments on my facebook page. But NONE of them have asked me out…

    Until today. Finally one of the guys asked me out for next Tuesday. (text message)
    I said yes.
    The next text message I got from him was: Well, I just wanted to see if you would tentatively be able to make that a plan if it works out for me. I have a dentist appointment which may or may not wear me out.

    What the?? Is it just this region? I just feel like.. what pansies!! Why all the kid glove stuff? What is going on here? It’s so frustrating!

    One of the railroad guys that comes through our hotel was talking to me about being “our age” and being single. I asked him about this texting phenomena and told him how I felt like men are wimps and why don’t they just ask me out????

    He said, Andrea, it’s not that easy.
    He told me that I was really quite a catch. “You are gorgeous, sexy, laid back, funny, fun. You’re a breath of fresh air. You make men feel at ease.”
    But he said, you also make a guy feel like he’d never be able to be with you. You make a guy look at himself and honestly… we’re nervous and we’re scared.

    Wha???? I guess I always though of myself as “easy”. This guy told me, “A quality guy sees you and he things “quality woman” and he starts making himself prepared and getting himself ready and he starts working on himself before he even makes a move on you.”

    REally???? I did not know that! So these four guys who’ve asked for my phone number and are face book friends with me are perhaps, in their own ways, for themselves, “stepping up” in order for themselves to feel like they have a shot with me.


    Well, that’s how the wind is blowing right now. I may or may not have a date on Tuesday. Hah! In the meanwhile I am maintaining my ultimate self care program and have lost two more pounds. I am fitting into my cute sexy clothes again and I’m feeling quite fine.

    RRguy has been texting me all afternoon and finally I just asked him: I feel the urge to connect with you but all this texting is too much for me. Will you please call me tonight? I’ll be relaxed and in my bed and ready to talk at 11:30 pm.

    Right away he texted back: Absolutely I will call my sweet sweet baby tonight. Kisses to you. Can’t wait.

    And I know that he’ll be calling from his home. I feel perplexed, like… what’s the sudden urgency on his part to connect with me now. I’m feeling like it is because the last time he was in town here I told him I was too busy to see him.

  121.  #121Dominique on February 11, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    Liquid Light – 116 – SO awesome. Yes!!! Not arrogant at all. It’s how this all works.


  122.  #122Dominique on February 11, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    lovetodance – So beautiful. I’m loving very much these tremendous shifts I’ve been seeing in you and everybody here lately. Warms my heart profoundly.


  123.  #123lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    ohhhh thank you dominique…

    i feel it too…

    maybe we are all just so a part of this paradigm shift that has us all evolving more quickly and shedding the old structures that are not, have not , will not work anymore…

    not to say there aren’t 12 steps forward and maybe 20 back sometimes…just the disclaimer….LOL

  124.  #124Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    I am sorry you are feeling sad about Music man

    I have found…
    if I ask my little girl to come sit
    beside me…
    and tell me about the yearning feeling
    tell me about the missing feeling…
    “and I will listen” and hold you tight,
    I am sorry you feel sad:” I tell her
    I tell her to “put your head on my shoulder and we will talk about this”

  125.  #125lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 6:44 pm


    so wonderful

    that idea has helped me from you and my coach kristi kay…

    thank you beautiful healing sirens….

  126.  #126Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Azure Blu 124,

    Thanks, I forgot about that. I will do my EFT with my little girl and talk to her gently and tell her I am keeping her safe.

    There is still something about the music I am missing. I don’t know what it is, unless it could be about actually having a loving relationship with some sort of music person especially not a famous one. Just someone who understands. Hmm. I still have to continue on with me actually practicing.

  127.  #127Azure Blu on February 11, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    YOu know… I have been thinking about
    this thing you talk about
    When you talk about your guy
    from online dating…
    That he is looking at other women online
    even though he has been so warm and
    close to you…

    I do this also…
    I also stay online even though I have met
    someone I feel much attraction to
    If I have only gone on a few dates
    or even after a month or two
    unless we have had the exclusive talk…
    ’cause we are all online looking for that
    I wouldn;t take it personally at alll…
    How many dates have you been on, LTD?

    I would be very careful not to look
    at whether he is online or not… (on POF it’s kinda hard to avoid noticing)
    I do get taken aback if i see a guy
    I’m dating… and he is showing up online…
    BUT we are all trying to find our match…

    You are a beautiful, lovely, warm and charming Siren… Let him look!! :-}

  128.  #128Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Andrea — LOL, I’m laughing with you here because if you read your words from ANY other person I am sure you would tell them to relax and revel in all the attention. So I will say it on your behalf instead. 🙂

    As far as what the other railroad man said in terms of men working themselves up to be with a quality woman, I do think that’s true but I also think it weeds out a lot of low-quality men quickly. And that’s what you want. You WANT to be selective. It doesn’t mean that you aren’t alluring, approachable, dateable or anything like that. It just means that the bottom 50% of men isn’t even going to attempt anything with you — and personally that feels pretty good to me. You might feel ‘easy’ in terms of how much effort you used to give in relationships…but that’s the past so who cares? These days you are holding all the chips.

    I think RRGuy is smitten with you. I really, really do. I think it’s a little hard for him to navigate things at the moment so he’s experimenting and I think you are doing lovely every step of the way. You have not tried to move things forward, you’ve given him time and space to figure things out on his own, and you’re letting him lead. While yes I see and feel your frustration at times (and feel for you too!) I think things are moving rather naturally with him.

    I don’t know about you but I used to fall into this trap where I believed that if a relationship was meant to be it moved really quickly. Like 2 months to exclusivity, 6 months to engaged, married within 1.5 years. Now I understand that although that can happen most relationships progress that quickly ONLY AFTER a very long getting to know you period beforehand. Keep doing what you’re doing and let him get to know every bit of your Sireny self. 🙂

  129.  #129Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Misteal I can only imagine the sea of emotions you must feel, it is never easy to move on from a man we feel very attached to.

    I would say continue to treat yourself well, cry if you need to, but maybe set aside a certain amount of time per day to wallow. And each week, make that time 5 minutes shorter. Make a commitment to yourself that you’ll keep moving forward into the open arms of other men.

    When you are open to them, men will appear out of nowhere to you. Don’t let MusicTD become an excuse, a reason not to go out and attract the love you deserve.

    You are doing great. I feel healing in you that will only continue to grow. 🙂

  130.  #130Labbit on February 11, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Sirens I could use your help with a weird situation I find myself in right now.

    TenderCD and I often go to our gyms together. Recently, one of my exes has started coming to the gym TenderCD and I visit most. Quitting there isn’t an option — we know the owner very well and I sometimes teach classes at this gym. I don’t know why my ex started coming but he seems to be in all the same classes as me and TenderCD. This ex sits in the back, never speaks to me, but tends to follow me around a bit. Like after class when we’re cleaning the machines he’ll get in line after me for a cleaning wipe. Or when we use shared equipment he’s either next to me or behind me.

    It’s so distracting energy-wise that the owner who teaches some of the classes brought it up to me after a class. If he can feel it I knew TenderCD could too! We chatted about it and TenderCD knows the situation, but tonight my ex was once again in class and TenderCD was rightfully irked by it. So now the owner is really hard on my ex during class to try to dissuade him from coming, LOL. But it hasn’t worked yet.

    If you were in my shoes, would you talk to this ex? I feel like that’s what he wants…to have contact with me, for me to chase after him. I don’t want to do that, I don’t feel it would be very Sireny, but I’m feeling kind of stuck at the moment.

  131.  #131Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    Labbit 130,
    Sounds to me that he’s wanting a reaction from you. Maybe he’s in between CDs. 🙂

    Maybe he needs to build up the testosterone and this little imagined competition with TenderCD is just the ticket.

    Whatever the reason, treating him just like any acquaintance, speak a word or two if it’s natural is best. Ignoring someone you know can be really inflammatory.

    Hardest of all is to keep your energy neutral and not any different than you would the general population of guys there. TenderCD should keep his energy neutral to because we all know guys like to compete and his getting irked can stir up competitive feelings. neutral and boring, ho hummmm.

    Even the owner should not pay him any special attention so as not to give him the excuse to increase his testosterone.

    Let me know what you decide to do and how it worked. I’m sure you’ll get lots of suggestions.

  132.  #132Andrea on February 11, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Labbit Oh thank you for what you said to me. All of it. Wow it feels so validating and I hope what you say is right about RRguy. Man, I’m really smitten with him and yes, I did have this kind of idea that it needed to be clipping along at the pace I thought it should be going at.
    I’m thinking the he is actually working at trying to figure out how we can be together. I’m realizing that the more I make it easy for him by me jumping ahead and trying to work it out for us, the more I’m just pushing him away.

    Anyway: your situation… eeewwww…. Ick I feel so ick angry red annoyed when a man acts so passive aggressive like that.

    God, I would say to Tender CD: I feel so annoyed when that man is in my energy. I feel like quitting the class or leaving the gym. I don’t know what I should do here.

    And see what solutions Tender can come up with. I bet he’d love to jump to your rescue with this one.

  133.  #133Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 8:24 pm


    I like Andreas’ suggestion too. Work on it together as a team. It’s a good way of finding out what your man is made of and how you work as a team by solving a problem together.

    Great suggestion Andrea!!

  134.  #134Mistea1 on February 11, 2015 at 8:47 pm


    Thank you for your suggestions. You are right. MusicTd certainly appeared out of nowhere. I was just enjoying the pretty music!! I was quite surprised. So I can wait and be curious for my next surprise as well!!

    The feelings seem to hit about once a week now and for shorter periods of time but they catch me by surprise as I figure each time that it’s the last time.

    For some reason this feels worse than leaving my marriage of many years.

  135.  #135lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 9:04 pm

    maybe misteal because you are feeling more of everything now…

    allowing more of you, your passions, the all of you…

    not numb but very alive….this brings all emotions…even the very sticky hard to shake ones….

    but i feel you are doing a good job, a really really good job siren!

    also i loved your suggestion to labbit of 131…how not to inflame the situation but nuetralize it by normalizing it…

  136.  #136Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    You are so welcome 🙂 And I feel so glad my post brought some help to you. I remember so clearly being in that situation, and have now completely moved past it.

    I remember saying to D once, when he said I should just chill and that she meant nothing to him, “I don’t want to think about a time when you belonged to someone else” and he just smiled and pulled me into his arms and never mentioned her again.

  137.  #137Emerson on February 11, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    130 Labbit
    I like what Andrea and Mistea1 had to offer regarding your situation!
    I understand it is distracting, but as I was reading your story I couldn’t help but chuckle a little…picturing your ex following you around like the siren you are….aww I have compassion for men…he can’t help himself, he’s probably driving himself crazy seeing you there working out with the new CD!
    ((Labbit’s ex))

  138.  #138Emerson on February 11, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Sirens ….I have mentioned a friend I have that is soo angry after a bad breakup from TWO years ago…I know it takes time, but she is not processing it well at all, and it feels like it’s bleeding into the people around her, the toxicity…it’s just breeding and growing…and I’m finding myself wanting to distance from her…

    In fact I feel that way now, she can be very abrasive/bossy in her conversation, she says “she calls it like she sees it, just being honest…” but it’s often harsh and uncalled for…and badly timed when perhaps another person (namely me) is feeling a little fragile or sensitive at that moment…there is a time and a place for bluntness….

    In a way I am struggling with this and in a way i am not and I feel grateful….she refused to accept any self-help suggestion (Rori, other authors, etc) for how to work through this and so I can’t force her….

    I also realize everything is a mirror and perhaps I have the tendency to resist advice as well…not sure what message is here for me, but it’s making me realize how important it is to be compassionate and gentle when we communicate with people.

  139.  #139Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 9:40 pm


    This is just me, but I would honestly not waste my time with dentist-appointment guy’s date. I know of course you are perfectly entitled to go with whatever feels good to you, but this is exactly the sort of iffy, beat-about-the-bush behavior that I’d like to send the message to the Universe “no thanks”.

    And I think what the railroad guy said about men trying to work on themselves to be worthy of you is all very well, but I would not take it too much to heart. A masculine man who is worthy of your time is not afraid of asking you out and being with you. And if he is, do you really want a man who is so racked with self-doubt that he dithers indirectly, leaving you to wonder?

    Since RRGuy’s attentions feel good, keep going with that… and with anything that makes you feel good and cherished… leave the rest 🙂

  140.  #140lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 10:28 pm


    i can imagine how you feel grateful….i imagine that you are grateful because that is not how you choose to communicate….we all have bossy and harsh in us and we all make decisions when and how and if we want to give energy to those energies….

    just my opinion….and furthermore [i am grinning] its so interesting that this topic came up….
    just talking to my new cd [yes the one of the ones i had a meltdown over] and we were discussing how people can either hurt or heal in the way they talk to each other…[and of course how we talk to ourselves]

    i had just heard the author of the book ‘How To Take The War Out Of Our Words’ being interviewed on npr…
    her name is ellen something….

    anyhow this all seems very syncronistic….

  141.  #141lovetodance on February 11, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    thank you azure for your input….

    this round of online dating is bringing up ALOT for me…in some ways i feel more sophisticated about it and otherwise absolutely triggered and fractured by what presents itself inside me…

    to heal of course…

    i am changing tho….i see it…i feel it….

    and shyly enough i will say that i haven’t had a date with this one particular cd [we just made a date tonite]…that has been part of the problem….i was feeling so frustrated by the course of this event….my timing….was not his…..and it triggered so much insecurity and distrust in ME….

    this is such incredible, painful and powerful practice….just the right thing for me now….oye vay!

    Thank you for your wisdom and encouraging words beautiful azure….

  142.  #142Millie on February 11, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    Liquid light 96—
    Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and experience. No, you haven’t rained on my parade at all. Personally how I feel about the idea of marriage and getting engaged is that I’m not ready yet. I’m not in a place where I see myself being that, however I do want to be in an exclusive relationship leading to that and I would not rush into anything I didbt feel wholeheartedly about. I do think he is in a state of infatuation and I want to see if over the next few months if his feelings change or remain the same.

    I see the man you are describing as controlling and that does not seem to be the man in front of me. Yes, he supports me in everything I do. He has met my family and has spent time with my parents who really like him for me. Hi parents live in a differnet state, but he has told then about me and wants to take me to meet them. He’s out of town right now and yesterday I was having a rough day at work… So today he surprised me by sending a bouquet of flowers. When my car was in the shop, he offered to pick me up from work. I usually work very late and told him I’d be finished at 8, which if course didn’t happen and I felt bad for making him wait, but he said it’s ok.. And to do what I needed to do and he’d be there when I needed. I felt so relaxed after he said that… His behavior doesn’t strike me as controlling at all. When I said that he wanted to spend all his free time with me, it came from a place of him wanting to bring himself to me, not asking me to remove myself from what I’m doing to be with him. I don’t feel him hindering me from my passions at all. His temperament seems slightly more passive in the sense that he isn’t trying to change me at all, he likes me as I am and just wants to be with me because he feels good with me.

    I almost feel like there is a double edged sword here… If a man is t stepping up he’s not right for me, but when a man is stepping up and being present in the pursuit role.. That’s no good either?

    He doesn’t have a history of being controlling that I’ve seen or heard about.

    I look to my parents relationship a lot because it is the primary successful relationship I have to use as an example. My dad proposed to my mom after one month of dating because he was in that place where he was ready for the one and he saw her as that. They are still happily married to this day. I’m not saying that I want thst for myself, but I am saying it can exist and it is possible.

  143.  #143Millie on February 11, 2015 at 11:15 pm

    Labbit 59– I completely agree! And I do want some time to get to know him better. He may feel 100% about me, but truth is I don’t feel 100 yet… But I’m willing to find out!!

  144.  #144Millie on February 11, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    Beloved 100–

    Yes! One thing I’ve realized is that when I feel bad, anxious, torn inside… it is because the man that is the center of those feelings is not the right man, it is not the right situation for me to be in. It’s so simple, but I see it so clearly now…all my past situations where I blamed myself, my lack of siren-ness…It wasn’t that at all. It’s where I put myself.

  145.  #145Indigo on February 11, 2015 at 11:24 pm


    What I can tell you is that these men who are capable of stepping up in every way, of wanting to do everything for us, and wanting to give us everything, ABSOLUTELY do exist. And it’s not in a controlling, possessive way either. They just want to make us happy, and they are right there – able to do commitment and relationship and give it all they’ve got. And there’s nothing controlling or possessive about it either. I’ve met several of these men in recent times.

    I could see very clearly that these men were simply willing, able and ready, and it was simply my choice whether I wanted to go there with them. Take others’ advice/suggestions/observations with a pinch of salt because you must remember that it contains a fair bit of projection of their own stuff and experiences. Trust YOUR heart and your instincts, and do what is right for YOU. Other people are naturally cautionary, usually with good intentions – but I am usually very cautious about who I open up to about my relationships and hold my cards close to my chest. Because I find if I say too much to others, before long I am dragged down into a whirlpool of analysing and defending, and I just don’t need that. If it feels good to you, GO with it.

  146.  #146Scorpio on February 12, 2015 at 2:32 am

    Hi Rori

    My boyfriend called for a break-up in September 2014.

    He has since been telling me that he wants the relationship back but only wanting to reconnect back slowly in baby steps.

    I feel this is really no good and I have expressed this to him.
    However, all he does is to still connect on messages or calls, attempting the reconnection and he finds this is a good method.

    I am feeling very confused and insecure with such connection.

    Please help me.

    Help needed!

  147.  #147Labbit on February 12, 2015 at 6:04 am

    Mistea1, Andrea, Emerson, thank you. 🙂

    Andrea you totally nailed it. I said pretty much what you suggested to TenderCD this morning and he’s all over it, and clearly pleased to be in charge of this one. And I’m pleased too so I don’t have to worry about it anymore.

    Emerson LOL yes I guess it is pretty funny to think of my ex following me around! It’s so weird because he dumped me, it’s not like he had a reason to be pining after me all this time. But if he was, hey, sometimes it takes losing the best thing you ever had to realize it was the best thing you ever had.

  148.  #148Labbit on February 12, 2015 at 6:10 am

    138 Emerson — I’m not sure I believe everyone in our life is a mirror. I can see how a man in a romantic relationship would be one, but friends I see as more complements for different aspects of our personalities.

    It’s clear your friend is in a lot of pain and has put on her cactus armor as protection. I feel for her, although my defensive mechanisms are different I went through about a year period of falling into a deep, dark black hole. I can tell you that having my friends stand by me meant so much, still means so much to me to this day.

    With that said my friends did kind of take turns stepping in to support me, then backing off when it became too draining on them emotionally. I feel it’s perfectly fine for you to do the same — be in her company as much as you can stand, but don’t push yourself beyond what you can handle.

    Sometimes setting the example will lead the way out of the darkness. Maybe you can keep redirecting her to lighter-hearted, more joyful topics to discuss when you are together? If not just the gift of your listening without judgement is more than enough. She’ll find her way out in her own time — or she won’t — and unfortunately there isn’t much you can do to help her with this. She needs to want it herself first.

  149.  #149Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 6:51 am

    I am getting into over-analysis… so I need to riff.
    First of all, I did not call him last night at his night shift to tell him I love him and wish him good night. This is the first time ever I did not do it.
    I have to say, it was extremely difficult for me to not do it. I really wanted to, but wanted to see if I can contol myself. Yes, I can, but I did not sleep well, I woke up at around 5 am, could not sleep, and then feel asleep having a nasty dream involving my ex-boyfriend from my early 20s, who dumped me after 5 years of dating and after having discussed marriage etc… this is something which I have probably have not healed over yet, so yes, it is coming up…
    And no, I did not call him, and just waited around today for him to call me which he did, but when he called he said he is very tired, going home, and has no plans to see me today. Ok, to be honest, I actually asked what his plans were, and he said, to go home and sleep. I was 99% sure he would want to see me today because we did not see each other yesterday, but no. So, I could feel, a part of me started wondering is he punishing me for not calling him last night, for breaking a pattern, by breaking the pattern on his side? And the other part of me just went pouty and said to him “very well then”. He could tell I was very upset, he always hears that, and then, he called 10 minutes later and asked to take me to lunch before he goes home to sleep. And, I felt very bad, and apologized for being curt with him… As a matter of fact I have been having an extremely stressful day at work. So he came, and we have lunch, and talked, and I was telling him about my work worries, and he said how everything will be all right at the end, and I told him, actually, I no longer want everything to turn ok, I want to not have to work, I just want to stay home and look after you. And he said, in that case, I suppose I will have to be making more money so that you would not need to work. And I said, yeah, it kind of goes like this. And he said, you know, I have never ever cared about making a lot of money before, but now I should probably think about it. The whole converation was sort of like a joke… but may be it wasn’t. I need to remind myself not to try to forcefeed the little bird.

  150.  #150Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 7:02 am

    That did not work out very much like a riff…
    So one more try.
    I feel…
    I had a beer which I should not have had but what the hell too late now
    I shound not drink during the day, better not at all.
    He is so damn good looking.
    Just looking at him, so tired, half asleep after a night shift + another 6-7 hours at work, my heart breaks looking at him, he is so handsome even when he is dead-tired.
    He works terrible hours overtime.
    I am desperately in love with him, and just don’t see how it can work between us.
    I love him, and I know he is not right for me…
    It has been more than 3 years, and it is not moving one way or another.
    I am so scared.
    I want to see what is going on in his head.
    I am so grateful that I don’t know what is going on in his head.
    Leaning back sucks.

  151.  #151Indigo on February 12, 2015 at 7:15 am


    What you described about not sleeping very well, waking up at 5 am, not being relaxed and having a bad dream when you leaned back… this is exactly what it was like for me in the beginning when I was leaning back. I remember one of the coaches saying that contacting a man (could have been Rori) is a distraction from feeling our feelings… well, when we don’t do that – contact a man, lean forward – we kind of give those feelings permission to come to the surface. It feels very hard, but it’s a good thing, it’s kind of just being alone with yourself and saying, I’m strong enough to handle whatever I feel.

    I really feel for you, and I really feel leaning back is the way to go here… it’s the only way to see him for who he really is. When you say your relationship is not moving one way or the other, I know how frustrating that must be after 3 years… I know I’ve asked you this before, but have you got clear within yourself what you want, both now and in the next few months/years?

  152.  #152Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 7:22 am

    I am not clear, and this is probably partly the reason/ or the consequrnce of?/ him not being clear.
    What I know for sure, is that I would prefer it to be easy, and it is not. I want to know when I will see him next, where we will go, what we will do, and I want him to come on time. He is getting better (baby steps) but still is far from the level of confort that I need. I will not tell him what I want, partly because I am not sure, and partly because I do not want to give out the test results before the test. I do not want to be married to someone who is not sure he wants to be married to me. Does this make sense? I do not want to live with someone who is not willing/able to pay the bills of living where I currently live/would like to live. I want him to be able to give, out of his free will, everything that I need. And at this stage, he still can not.

  153.  #153Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 7:34 am

    I try not to blame him. But you know what he has been doing to me in those three years? He sweet-talkes me. He is very good with words (or I have a vivid imagination?) and he plants these seeds of dreams in my head, and then when I start dreaming really big, he pulls away, and, until recently, that would automatically get me to lean forward… Ï need to absolutely break this pattern, when he leans back/pulls away, I need to lean back even more energetically. And I am so afraid, so afraid, that when I do, he will not come back… Logically I know he will, emotionally, I just have fear.

  154.  #154Femininewoman on February 12, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Victoria have you ever tried tapping on the fear?

  155.  #155Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 8:11 am

    That is a very good idea, thank you, I will do that.

  156.  #156Beloved on February 12, 2015 at 8:13 am

    Mandy – I feel FeminineWoman’s approach may be a little better than what I was feeling yesterday.
    I feel like I got a little caught up in wanting to “help” and don’t feel so great about explaining or figuring out what J meant, and when I re-read your post, I feel like nodding my head, you got this, you got this 🙂

  157.  #157Mistea1 on February 12, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Lovetodance 135,
    So true about feeling more feelings. I had a brief experience with him and music last July or so that allowed all the emotions both easy and difficult to come flooding out. I used some of the difficult ones to work on some deep issues I have with EFT and the help of my therapist friend. Right now it seems to be oh, I don’t know a deep sense of loss maybe? Grief, for sure, because this can’t be fixed. Grief has it’s own time i suppose.

  158.  #158Mistea1 on February 12, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Indigo 150,
    It was helpful for me to read about “feelings permitted to come to the surface and I’m strong enough to handle them.”

    Yes, I am strong, in pain but strong!

  159.  #159Mistea1 on February 12, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Victoria 152,
    I hear you about the push/pull issue. For me it was too much chaos and it seemed like he didn’t have much contol over it or indeed wanted to conrol it. Oh well. ….

  160.  #160Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Thank you… I know what you mean, and I in my case, I also don’t know whether he has control or not, and which would be worse – that he as control or that he does not. What I know for sure is that this small episode of me trying to control the situation (by leaning further back) has basically distabilized me emontionally throuout the night and for the whole day today. Just like one of the sirens said, when I am not reaching out to him, I have the time to feel the feelings and they are … well, scary.

  161.  #161Indigo on February 12, 2015 at 8:58 am


    I hear you about the fear that when you lean even further back, that he will not come back. I feel this fear when I lean back, I think most of us do. I think this is precisely the feeling that comes up, which is scary, which we need to love and integrate, so we can have better flow in our lives.

  162.  #162prplpsn28 on February 12, 2015 at 9:14 am


  163.  #163Emerson on February 12, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Thank you for helping me and Rori too….I’ve realized that I know how to be *happy*….and you have helped me to be able to do that…accepting, sinking into feelings, riffing, feeling messages…all these have brought me to the point of being able to be authentic, and happy.
    I also realize how many people don’t know “how” to be happy…anger and revenge can taste so sweet and be addicting….but I’ve let go of those (I do feel angry from time to time which is ok because I just let myself feel it but I don’t hang onto it)….

    All of this because I decided to be open and receptive of how to improve myself and how I see the world….
    Thank you sirens

  164.  #164April Rose on February 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm


    I could not help picking up on this:

    “I will not tell him what I want, partly because I am not sure, and partly because I do not want to give out the test results before the test. ”

    Men are not mind-readers. I’m sure that when we help them out, by letting them know in feeling messages what would feel good to us, they are thrilled. They stop worrying about getting it wrong, because they have our guidance on what will make us happy.

    I get the sense that it would be amazing practice for you to start vocalising what would feel good..,
    “You know honey, it would feel so wonderful to know what your plans are for us on Tuesday. Then I could feel excited choosing what to wear and feel all sparkly looking forward to the place you are taking us to” (for example)
    How do you feel about saying something like that?

  165.  #165Tee on February 12, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    Not sure where to start here Dear Sirens.
    Ever since I’ve been leaning back, Mr. Man has been just a real doll.

    Yes I’ve been triggered, wanted to cry, yell, etc but I kept it together as best I could. I sat back and watched him drink and drink. I’ve watched him stay out later and later.

    Fuming on the inside. I wondered if he cared at all, do I even want/need him, etc.

    Slowly, he started to emerge, to step forward with gifts. I haven’t gotten gifts in ages.
    Then he’d give me money &/or we’d talk about it. Again, something he was always hesitant on. He’d go out, I wouldn’t call or question. He made some weird drunken comment about me not wanting to marry him.

    I bypass it. Then yesterday, he texts me to let me know what he’s up to. I hadn’t heard from him in hours. I was pissed but I had stuff to do so my mind was busy.

    He told me he planned on going window shopping for Valentine’s Day. Another first. I was so hyped up to know what was up. Instead I stood still. Didn’t ask.

    He comes home and says a few vague things. He was taste testing at some far out of the way mall. Everything is set. Then he said he wanted to know my size in everything.

    I give him incomplete half answers. I think I know what he’s up to but I try to maintain control. I asked him for $100 but I got no answer as he left to hang with a friend.

    I’m pissed but I leave it alone, I don’t NEED it so it’s cool either way. This morning, he hands me his card, gives me his PIN and tells me to take out $200 for myself. Another bunch of firsts.

    The wheels are really turning now. I take a shower, I get out and we talk. He said that he doesn’t feel wanted, I don’t give him anything to come home to, all of my attention is towards the baby which isn’t a bad thing but it’s an issue. He said that I don’t say that I miss him, etc.

    We actually did an impromptu erotic photo shoot which was beyond embarrassing to me but he was definitely aroused and enjoyed it. He told me I was sexy, I told him I didn’t see that and I needed to go to the gym.

    He gave me this ‘are you serious’ look.
    He talked again about our prom. Apparently, he wants me to look like that again lol
    I did look awesome but I was uncomfortable.
    I had on minimal make up, hair done, red dress, white gloves, etc.

    I was the center of attention and I hated it. I felt like a show dog, a fluffy pomeranian!
    I’m guessing that to him this was the ultimate in femininity, or maybe he liked showing me off.

    So he says that in order to be with him I have to be a star lol

    I don’t think he meant literally but I think he meant in terms of confidence and not being afraid to look good too.

    Of course, I had my own questions about him being out and such but I think he feels misplaced or replaced by the baby.

    He said he really does love me.

    Today felt like a dream come true, everything felt so easy and fluid

    Yet I’m afraid to believe
    Afraid that in a few weeks, he’ll regress

    I feel numb like something devastating just happened and I can’t quite believe it or allow it in

    I feel guilty for feeling doubtful

  166.  #166Violette on February 12, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    Well I feel like posting again. I really got turned off a few months ago when I got a couple of comments from my last post, in which I was venting, that were critical of my “bad attitude.” I do still feel angry about that. I don’t want to share my vulnerabilities here and find out I’m not safe.

    That being said I want to try again. I can’t talk to my therapist, I’ve moved away and she’s too elderly to speak on the phone. The girlfriend I used to go to for relationship advice has changed her approach and I don’t find it as helpful, and I don’t really have a friend to talk about my relationship with. And I found myself sort of complaining and venting more than I wanted with a new girlfriend the other day.

    I need a place to sort out my feelings, to express, to vent, yes, to explore, to articulate what I’m feeling, to seek solutions. Right now it’s all internal and that is actually ok in a way, because it becomes less about controlling it, and I digest things in a different way.

    But the loving thing for me does feel like posting on the blog again. I feel sad that it’s so anonymous, part of the beauty of it is that, because personalities come into it less, but I still do want more intimate friendships in my life.

    And I do want to post here. Please be nice, I am not a perfect siren!

  167.  #167Violette on February 12, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    I want to say that I feel inspired by the post about the lady who circular dated when her husband left, and turned her vibe on it’s head, and he wanted her back.

    Inspired not because I want to get anyone back, or even because I want to attract anyone in particular…but because it felt like life, like a woman awakening to her own power, through the drudgery and discipline of going out and meeting NEW PEOPLE, ugh, yuck. And then guess what, some of them become less new, and then look at me (I’m making it about me now), I have a fabulous life, and if I want I don’t have to tell anyone I created it, I can go around acting like I was born that way, busy with fun activities, friends who share my interests, never a dull weekend!

    The way the woman described herself, I’d love to be her friend! She sounds fun, not like a victim, strong, soft, girly, and a grown up. I’d like to radiate that to others. I want to get more serious about fun in my life!

    Seriously, the idea of going out and having fun already tires me…but one step at a time, I am going to do it. I even feel a little excited 🙂

  168.  #168Beloved on February 12, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Violette, it would feel good to me to clear this up. When you are saying that there were sirens who were critical of your “bad attitude”, are you referring to me?

  169.  #169lovetodance on February 12, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    violette…..i am glad you have decided to post again..

  170.  #170Zara on February 12, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Mandy 101 said “Feeling message – I feel like you were talking about us when you were talking about Lori being ridiculous for staying in a sexless relationship. Essentially I am playing the same role she’s playing…sticking around even though there’s no intimacy. I am sad I had sex 5 times last year. I don’t want to live like that. I’ve said it time and time again, and I keep having to say it and stand up for myself…I don’t want a sexless relationship. You need to respect that and help me out, because I’m literally starved and desperate for affection. You are my boyfriend, your job is to keep me satisfied with affection. It’s therapy time. Go get some or I’m afraid I’ll have to rethink my life and our situation.
    That speech was probably all wrong! But at least I came up with something that can be tweaked….”

    “Feeling message – I feel like you were talking about us”
    (This is not a feeling, it is an interpretation of what I heard.)

    “I am sad I had sex 5 times last year”
    If it’s only about “I” , then “I” can have sex with somebody else. It’s up to me to solve “my” problem. If problem it is. He is entitled to have a sexless life if he so wishes and I am free to not be on the same page and to look for my match.

    “5 times last year”
    Last year is the past. I’d feel better grounded working on the present.

    “I don’t want to live like that…. I don’t want a sexless relationship.”
    And yet I live like that…. I am having a sexless relationship. May be it suits me in some way and IS what I want.

    “I’ve said it time and time again, and I keep having to say it and stand up for myself…”
    When I talk the talk I tend to not feel heard. May I walk the talk and positive energy switches my life on.

    “You need to respect that and help me out, because I’m literally starved and desperate for affection”
    I need to respect that and help myself out because I’m litterally starved and desperate for affection

    “You are my boyfriend, your job is to keep me satisfied with affection. It’s therapy time. Go get some or I’m afraid I’ll have to rethink my life and our situation.”
    I am my best friend, my job is to keep me satisfied with affection. It’s therapy time. I’ll go get some and I’ll have to rethink my life and my situation.


  171.  #171Posie on February 12, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    I’ve never posted before (maybe I’m not doing it right from my iPhone) but have been reading along and find it so valuable to reflect on and learn from you beautiful and brave women here. I feel thankful for everyone’s sharing.

    I just had to jump in because Zara, I am so impressed with your honesty and self awareness in those messages you just constructed out of Mandy’s draft FM. It’s such a strong shift in perspective! I feel inspired to make my own feeling messages and then reconsider them in that kind of self-determined and lovingly truthful light. Thanks for your honesty there, really quite touching.

  172.  #172Gemini Goddess on February 12, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Victoria 151

    I found the post about giving away the test questions. It was on the “Asking the innocent Question” thread a couple months ago (I pasted below). I was responding to one of your posts, and saying that I am intense and high energy and require great sex. What I meant in that case was that in the beginning of a relationship I would need to know if a guy could “satisfy” all of these requirements naturally, and that if I told him in advance, I wouldn’t get to see what he was really about. It seems in your current situation (3 years in) that all the cards are pretty much out in the open, and telling him what you want at this point would be a good idea. See if he’s willing to adjust his style a bit. Just a thought.

    The post below. Hope this helps:

    113: Gemini Goddess

    Victoria 110

    “I want to have active and passionate love, a relationship in which we constantly give each other more love, more adoration, more excitement”

    Thank you for saying this. It really helps me identify what I, too want from a relationship. I have always beat myself up for this, but it is just so. I am such an intense girl (43 year old woman, actually), and I will just plain need someone to keep up with me, and keep me interested. To this end, I’ve decided NOT to tell my current “candidate” this, NOT to give the test answer in advance, and see if he just IS.

  173.  #173Victoria on February 12, 2015 at 10:42 pm

    Gemini Goddess,
    Thanks a lot, yes, it was in a different context. But I loved the metaphore and I have extended it to mean more for me. I do not want to tell him what I want in detail. He knows what I wanr from life, he is well informed about me. He should be able to know what makes me happy by now. I do not want to repeat myself or nag or criticize. I have seen that works best, ten times better than anything else, is leaning back. But I still struggle with holding the space when the space appears.
    May be he is not the One. I try to be neural about it and not hate him if he isnt,because probably this is all he can do. Also, I am not sure there is One. And I love some parts of him … In any case it has been very helpful to vent here, and thank you so much for giving me attention!

  174.  #174Indigo on February 12, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    Victoria 171,

    I remember Leigha Lake talking about giving a timeline in a situation like this. I think that would be a good thing to do. You could make the timeline as long as you want (2 years even if you want), but at least then you will have put a limit on how long you will give yourself to get to know what you need to know, to make a decision about him.

  175.  #175Indigo on February 12, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    Mandy 101,

    I like a lot of observations Zara has made about your speech.

    The trouble with your speech as it stands is that it is almost entirely about telling him what he must do, making demands. I imagine a little girl stomping her foot in frustration – I’m sorry, but I do. It’s Rori 101 – how well do you think a man will respond to being told what to do? Particularly to being told he has to go to therapy?

    You are making it all about what he must do to make you happy, and that is a position of powerlessness. What will you do if he turns around and essentially says “no” (either directly or passively), as I’m sure he will. Because men tend to dig in their heels and resist when you approach it this way. You are making him responsible for your happiness and that is your responsibility. The POWERFUL thing, and what is guaranteed to get you results, and get you what you want, is to leave him out of it entirely. To tell him that he is entitled to make his own choices and to do whatever he wants, but this is what YOU are going to do. Stand on your own side. I am NOT saying you must leave him, so please don’t get triggered in that way. I am saying you must make choices about your own life that do not depend on him acting a particular way. A toxic relationship is defined, by Rori, as one in which no one ever grows or changes. Everyone is allowed to complain about the way things are, very righteously, but no change is allowed. Well, I think you should decide that something IS going to change. You can’t complain about there being no sex or affection but still you are exactly where you were a year ago. You can’t ask him to change, YOU have to change.

  176.  #176Victoria on February 13, 2015 at 12:02 am

    Yes, not a bad idea. I have in fact made decisions “against” him a number of times. I just have not been able to withstand no contact long enough. He has never wanted to break up, each time he begged me not to do it.
    I will probably give myself six months or so. Roris stuff works, I feel better than I have in all the three years. So I think it is worth a chance, under the new paradigm. How are yout timelines?

  177.  #177Indigo on February 13, 2015 at 12:20 am


    This might sound shocking to you, but my timeline is 6 years or so.

    I do not want children, and I have been married, and so I am in no rush at all to get married or settle down before I am absolutely ready. I have lots to concentrate on before then – from my house, to my job, to growing a career from home that I can be passionate about. There is no real urgency for me, but I am 33 and I think by the time I reach the end of my 30’s I will want to know one way or the other.

  178.  #178Millie on February 13, 2015 at 12:22 am

    Indigo 145— you are so right 🙂 thank you for your words of support. I feel honored in my decison making. I agree we have to be selective of who we share our intimate lives with… As once the door is opened for opinions, it could potentially rock my vibe that seems to be working for me right now. Thank you, I needed to hear what you wrote.

  179.  #179Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 12:28 am

    Lovely Siren… I can see your wings… like a young eagle flying… when she takes those first flights out of the nest.. very powerful stuff you have been sharing with us on Siren Island for the past months!!

    Victoria, id like to share a story about me using a timeline. You may or may not find it helpful… :-))

    I used a timeline to help me untangle myself from a 2 year relationship – Mine was toxic,
    but I couldn’t seem to let go,
    I loved everything about him..
    But he loved his cabins up north and would be gone for at least 2 weeks of every month (he stopped taking me)
    of course there were other things…
    We broke up off and on and i CD and so did he…
    Finally I was SICK, depressed and NOT sleeping- from being apart from him (1.5 months)
    I contacted him… he wanted to get back together…
    I decided to be exclusive with him for 3 months (I didnt’ tell him about the timeline) – use all the Rori tools I had been practicing…
    and I would either see VERY clearly what I didn’t want in a forever relationship OR he would step up…
    Sooo… we started going out… things seemed really good… but the red flags started going up…
    by the 3rd month I was able to see VERY clearly (because other CDs did not distract me from the truth)
    All he was giving me were CRUMBS…
    I used feeling messages to talk about a few things…
    he broke up with me…
    I was able to let go this time and
    REALLY start CDing others… and NOT call him!!
    8 weeks later he DID call me
    and I was able to say… NEVER Contact ME again because I Knew I deserved to be loved and charished!

  180.  #180Indigo on February 13, 2015 at 1:20 am

    By the way, Mandy, I don’t want you to think that I am judging you, because the only way I can say that is because I realised by Rori’s definition, that I was in a toxic relationship. I got to complain and say that I wish that he was different, but I was unwilling to change. It was only when I stopped leaning forward and “requiring” him to do this or that, and leaned back and just accepted the situation for exactly what it was, and then decided how *I* was going to change and look after myself, that was when I started to see positive change and regain a sense of self-worth and powerfulness.

  181.  #181Victoria on February 13, 2015 at 2:21 am

    Thank you so much for your story. Yes, it is very helpful, sharing stories always is, this is how we connect and exchange ideas and energy.
    On the one hand, I like deadlines, these are very important for example at work. And there have been times when I set myself deadlines in relationship stuff, and they were mainly useful. And I find them particularly useful when you need a particular result, like pass an exam, or close a deal, or buy the house etc. When it comes to my romantic relationship however, I am not so interested in the end result, because I think there is no “end” result. I want to have day-to-day joy, fun, and may be growth (but I am more interested in fun than in growth right now). Also, and I am not sure I will be able to explain this well, but somehow I belive there is no right choice or whong choice. That is, I do not think I will be wrong either way – by staying with him or by letting him/myself go. I will be fine either way. I have endless belief in my capabilities to go on and start again, as many times as necessary. I might be a bit sad (or very sad and very depressed) and somewhat bored for a while, but this is as far as this can go. My heart can not be really broken at this stage in my life. May be this is what is blocking me … I do not feel vulnerable.

  182.  #182Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 5:48 am

    veronica #179
    thank you for those wise words…
    AND from all that you have shared
    Yours is not a toxic relationship…

    Can you share more about why
    you think your heart is NOT vulnerable?

  183.  #183Victoria on February 13, 2015 at 6:12 am

    I am not sure whether it is the right word… I just don’t think I am. I mean, I feel pain, and hurt, and everything, but I know very well how to get over these… I know I will be fine, I do not worry about my heart.

  184.  #184Victoria on February 13, 2015 at 6:16 am

    If I can use a medical analogy, I think my hearaches are like minor flue or the cold, annoying but they will solve themselves with a few days of rest and plenty of liquids. I feel immune to major disease, probably falsely so.

  185.  #185Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Veronica #182
    Sounds VERY sireny to me…

    I noticed with letting go of Spirit…
    Now, with the Rori tools and
    ME LOVING ME soo much…
    YES… I am NOT feeling the sting as much…
    Is that what you are talking about…
    Our Self LOVE – We love ourselves MORE
    than Any Man!!! Yay!!

    I had SUCH hope for our relationship…
    He has sooo much of what I want…
    We had become exhausting..

    BUT, because I had started CDing again…
    I saw how easy hanging out could be felt…

    AT the VERY first I was ANGRY, i felt like a fool to have fallen for crumbs… but then realized… getting to know someone takes time… I gave us time… i’m glad I did…
    IT’s been a week…
    I’ve let go of another 2 CDs
    one had the same kind of Political fervor (opposite of mine)
    one after 6 dates… was just boring..

    I have a new date on Sat… Valentines Day
    What a nice surprise…
    I had planned on spending time with me… or maybe visiting my mom…
    This new CD and I – SN- had a lovely, warm conversation on the phone
    and he asked to see me on Sat… and
    Said… how great would it be
    If we DID hit it off to say… We had our first date on
    Valentines day… I love a man with that kind of confidence!! Yummy!

  186.  #186Lovergirl on February 13, 2015 at 7:05 am

    I am feeling annoyed- my laptop has been in the shop for over a week and they got the wrong part so I have to wait longer. It is a pain to type on my phone so haven’t been posting.

    Im going through a million emotions. My pregnancy has been verified, but there is still some fear because I bled for several days. Getting an ultrasound but not for almost 2 weeks.

    Im feeling anxious. Im anxious about my relationship with this guy and feel like trying to hurry up and push it forward, even though I know that’s not the way to go. I feel hopeless about circular dating (how do you even do that when pregnant?) I feel even more scared of abandonment.

    It doesnt help that he has been all over the map emotionally. Hes gone from telling me he really likes me and thinks we can work out a long term relationship, to yelling at me and telling me to get an abortion he doesnt want this with me, then back again to acting like he does and saying maybe subconsciously he really wanted it and thats why he got me pregnant twice. Im so confused and afraid.

    For awhile he seemed angry and resentful. Then he told me that he doesnt show it but that my positivity has been really encouraging and that I have a lot of positive qualities his ex girlfriends never had. He said maybe thats why things didnt work out with them, that his last girlfriend was too much like him and together they got stuck in negative loops.

    First he was acting like all we ever had was a casual sexual relationship, and I said thats not how it felt to me. He said you know, you are right, it really wasnt and I know I dont show how much I like you.

    He will say stuff like that but then the next day he seems like he just wants me as a business partner. Its just constant change and the fear of the unknown is stressing me out.

    On the positive side, he has started calling me every night again to talk. He has been texting out of the blue just to say hi. We had sex once and it was very emotional and I stayed the night with him.

    Im nervous about Valentines Day. Its so easy to see that as marker of how he feels about me and what he actually wants, but it may not actually mean anything at all. I know he wants me to come over and do work with him this weekend. If it turns into JUST that, its going to be very hard to hide my disappointment and hurt. :/

  187.  #187Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Ahhh brave Siren…
    Sooo much to go thru… sending you MUCH love…

    Rori says to share those feelings about VDay with him… He wants to know your heart…
    You want to genuine and authentic…this is when the Magic happens… :–}
    Maybe say to him
    “I am feeling anxious”
    Him; “Why”
    you: “I feel embarrased to bring this up…
    but Valentines day is coming up… what do you think?”

    Other Sirens might have better FM..

  188.  #188Mistea1 on February 13, 2015 at 7:21 am

    I want to talk about the timeline.
    After I talked with him briefly 3-4 times I realized I was really taken with the music and he began to attract me. I also knew on that level he was not acceptable but I was curious to find out what would happen. I gave myself a timeline of 6 months.

    In the meantime I found I could use this experience to work on some deep issues I had which worked out really well. I heard some deeply satisfying music and clarified some of my music issues. It was fun to exercise my flirting technique and other Rori tools, including the leanback, feeling messages. etc.

    However, I got very attached which was painful but at the 5 month point I began to finalize the end in my mind. It helped that he went on his concert tour which I knew about several months ago.

    The actual leaving for the tour helped me realize the father abandonment issue was largely solved. Taking time on the organ while he was gone helped me with the father territorial about music issue.

    The end of January and the 6 months came and I did not attend any of the 4 recitals he put together after he came back where he usually does one a month. I’ve found other venues and more importantly I have decided that I can generate emotional content from music that I play too.

    Reading Rabbi Boteach’s book Kosher Lust was the most valuable because he discussed three of the exact issues I was confronted with and helped me to understand. Here, finally was someone who understood and could explain what I was confronted with, it wasn’t just in my imagination. I have read widely on certain topics here and he is the first person who got it.

    I think a timeline can be valuable if only to demonstrate to myself that indeed I am strong enough to stand up for myself. It helped me clarify boundaries and where I draw the line to take care of myself.

    So while this was a sexless encounter it was very sensual and I’m happy with that and looking forward to a sensual and sexual encounter the next time.

  189.  #189April Rose on February 13, 2015 at 7:37 am

    Hi Victoria,

    I sent you a comment/question.
    Post number 163
    Did you see it?

    Love, April

  190.  #190Labbit on February 13, 2015 at 7:45 am


    I so relate to what you’re saying. Like you, even in my closest relationships I have a certain toughness to me both inside and out. My family has a military background and I think this might be part of it, though perhaps it’s just our genetics. It’s very easy for me to put vulnerable emotions ‘in a box’ the way a man would, where I can put it aside and not think about it, rise over extremely difficult circumstances quickly — in fact I seem to thrive in tough situations, they feel more natural to me in an odd way.

    It’s hard for me to drop the mask because sometimes I don’t even realize I’m wearing it. As I become more and more in touch with my feelings I’m at a point now where I can usually catch myself. I can notice that when I’m putting on that mental toughness, not opening, not revealing myself but in fact hiding myself, when I would be so much better served by allowing myself to feel what I’m feeling, letting it show in my face instead of trying to hide it and practice expressing it outwardly. Making my insides and my outside match up.

    In previous relationships I’ve had an awfully hard time with expressing my needs and desires without making things his fault. I usually just stuffed it down until it became a tornado that exploded out of me as an attack. I haven’t owned my own feelings, needs, wants. Even with Tender I sometimes crash and burn with this. It causes me to stuff things down sometimes, because in the moment I can’t figure out what to say, how to say what I need in a way where I OWN IT.

    I’ve been practicing scripting a lot over the past couple of weeks in my spare time. I’ll write a little note for myself after a moment where I wanted to say something and couldn’t find the right words for it, and then I’ll script it out so next time I at least have one or two rounds of feeling messages ready to go. Feeling messages are becoming more natural to me and as they do they go from being this stilted, hard to say jumble of words to an authentic expression of me that allows TenderCD to connect with my heart. I can feel it everytime it happens — that connection. And it’s so wonderful, it’s worth all the mess-ups and times I say it wrong and times he gets confused and I feel like nothing is happening but in truth we’re falling a little more in love each day.

  191.  #191Labbit on February 13, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Lovergirl you may find some solace and support (as well as some good questions worth posing to yourself) in this post from Rori:

  192.  #192Labbit on February 13, 2015 at 7:59 am

    I have part of that article saved in my ‘really good Rori quotes’ file, I love this so much — it can be applied to ANYTHING happening in relationship:

    “A model for this (I know it’s fantasy and a movie, but I find these things helpful) is the movie “Knocked Up.” In it, the male character makes a HUGE change in who he is, how he sees himself, how he thinks of his life, and what he DOES because of what he WANTS.

    And the female character is, though willing to be with him and develop a relationship with him, would rather be a single mother than marry unhappily.

    It’s her attitude of self-reliance and self-love that inspires him to change. She does NOTHING to ask him to change – she only says what she DOESN’T want, and that’s enough.

    And there you have it.

    I’m not sure what I’d do. You must try on all these options in your imagination and see which feels most right for you. I can guarantee you, though, that trying to TURN THIS into what you want in an emotional sense will NOT WORK. You have to inspire him to come to WANTING this, emotionally, on his own.”

  193.  #193Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Labbit #190-1
    Beautiful… so helpful for lovegirl
    AND all of us trying to do relationship
    Thank you

  194.  #194Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Labbit oops 189-190 i meant!

  195.  #195Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Labbit I love what you shared here
    for Victoria…
    YES… the inside Not matching my outside face…
    I had such a difficult time
    saying feeling messages
    at the time the issue came up…
    Still do… and paste and copy alllll kinds of wonderful ideas from all the beautiful Siren songs here.

    BUT perservered,,, kept practicing
    and like you.
    The FM have come sooo much easier now…
    More and MORE
    I actually think in FM!!! yay…
    AND the connection that happens when I do have my heart open and keep with ME…
    It IS Magical

  196.  #196Lovergirl on February 13, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Thank you Azure Blue! I feel supported and appreciate your kindness. Im not sure if I want to say anything about Valentines Day because it feels kind of like I wou ld be pressuring him or asking the “innocent question”. Im trying to let go of hopes and expectations and just let him decide to row the boat… or not.

  197.  #197Lovergirl on February 13, 2015 at 8:47 am

    Labbit! Thank you so much for linking that post! Sooo relevant right now and helpful! I think I am going to look for that movie on netflix tonight.

    I especially like the third option because really he doesnt have to decide to be with me NOW. If the baby is 6 months old, is it really going to make a difference? He has already promised to be an involved father and I have no doubts he will follow through with that part. I can tell it is very important to him.

    I have seen an unusual amount of people I knew back in high school, end up marrying the father/mother of their child down the road, like 10-15 years later, so it does happen, even like that sometimes.

    Anyway, I hope it doesnt take that long- but I do want to let go of some of the pressure, on both of us. I dont want him to feel resentful towards my older children. He hasn’t met them yet and I have a feeling when he does, they may win him over. I have good kids and even my difficult teenager is hard not to like as a person.

    Anyway, I have strong feelings for him but I dont want to make rash decisions myself either. If I ever get married again, I want it to last a lifetime. So we have to be sure that we can both handle it.

  198.  #198April Rose on February 13, 2015 at 8:54 am

    Help sirens!

    I have been so disrespectful to men lately.

    The latest one was in a business situation. I thought he was being slow to contact me. So I sent an e-mail saying if there was no longer any interest I would take my business elsewhere. Two days later he phoned, and apologised. But I was so fed up. My vibe was annoyed and I didn’t hide it. But I didn’t use feeling messages.

    I suppose my ‘progress’ was to notice that I wasn’t in feminine energy AT ALL.

    Interesting that Rori’s new path in life is running ‘Business Siren’ programs. On the teleclass the other day she was outlining how to be in feminine energy while working with male associates.

    I just see how little patience I have for men who I judge as ‘falling short’.

    It’s not good for me to practice treating them poorly.

    I want to treat all men with equal respect. And then choose which ones to engage with further. Not blow them away with my disdain!!!

  199.  #199Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 9:25 am

    April Rose…
    Good reminder for me…

    at event at xmas
    I spoke with a male collegue…
    hadn’t seen him in awhile… so good to see him
    powerful, kind good looking guy (married)
    He invited me to start attending his Sandler Sales training again on Mon. mornings (I had paid many thousands to learn and for lifetime membership)
    For some reason I said
    “Ohhh… thank you Joe, Always the salesman”
    He had been so nice to extend the invitation…
    and reminder that it is always available for refreshers etc…
    To this day I can’t figure out why I felt I had to turn on him like that??
    He had this deer in headlights look after I said it??

  200.  #200Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Lovegirl #194.
    good point… you are sounding VERY sireny this morning… AMAZING

  201.  #201Rori Raye on February 13, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Scorpio – All this would be solved with Circular Dating – learn how here and DO it!!! Then – he’s just part of your “pack of men…” Love, Rori

  202.  #202Azure Blu on February 13, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Posie #171
    How lovely of you to post…
    Always good to hear from a new Siren…

    Welcome and please continue commenting
    The more Siren Songs we hear
    The happier we are.

  203.  #203Liquid Light on February 13, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Millie 142, It sounds like my fears were unfounded and that I was way off base. I’m so glad to read what your wrote about your man. Yay! What I went through with my ex was pretty awful and I don’t want any other woman to have to go through something like that. But it doesn’t sound like a similar dynamic with your new guy at all. So happy for you!!!

  204.  #204lovetodance on February 13, 2015 at 1:18 pm


    i feel so nourished reading your post

    it is what i go thru alot

    and to have you articulate it so well ….

    thank you

  205.  #205lovetodance on February 13, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    195 azure blu

    yes like when one is studying a foreign language ….one knows that one is integrating when a dream arrives hearing ourselves using that language…

    that is what your post reminds me of….the first step to be feeling, thinking, imagining, rehearsing, trying on….in feeling messages….

    this is so powerful for me…it is there and then elusive…to art of making it my own….to sound and feel like me to me….this is one of the challenges….

    because of that toughness [for me it can also be sassy] that i have identified with and is so a part of my personality and can be wonderful but when it is part of my defense system….it is not serving me…

    teasing out the real vulnerable feelings….particularly when i feel afraid…is a delicate dance….an artform…i am so afraid i will speak too much of my insecurities when speaking in feeling messages and being in my vulnerability….

    ahhhh practice, understanding, loving myself….all these components so necessary…..

  206.  #206lovetodance on February 13, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    just an update on my cding life…

    going on a first date with cd 1….went thro a rough patch that became very healing for me….my assuming, waiting, hyper-vigilent for signs of rejection….beginning to own all that more…bring it closer in…hold it and love it and soothe my nervous system

    [azure thank you for the tough love awhile back…made me look more closer at what i was doing…how it was soooo old] great to express raw emotions…and so important to get ahold of them for growth too….

    looking forward to having this date

    cd2..he calls then doesn’t i sent a music youtube..might have been way leaning forward…and thats okay with me right now…i don’t get he has alot of space in himself to cherish and pursue me…

    and awhile back i talked about the gardener cd that i had such rejection insecure feelings about…i have just avoided him…its been about 6 months…

    today i walked where he gardens…thinking this wasn’t even his day to be there…and i kinda missed seeing him…and oh my goodness there he was…
    he was all over me…and i was leaned back and confident and warm….he told me it was his last day there!….[wow i was amazed that i would show up on that day!]
    he kept saying things to me about things i had said to him months ago…wanted to make sure he had my number…etc etc….

    i don’t know if i will see him again…but the most important thing was how i felt…calm, and excited and warm…and carefree really…
    plus he gave me a Delicious! hug
    ahhhhh spring….

  207.  #207Gemini Goddess on February 13, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Labbit 190
    “I’ve been practicing scripting a lot over the past couple of weeks in my spare time. I’ll write a little note for myself after a moment where I wanted to say something and couldn’t find the right words for it, and then I’ll script it out so next time I at least have one or two rounds of feeling messages ready to go”

    I really like this practical approach. I too, have a military background, and thought the culture was the reason for emotional “stuffing”. Whatever the reason, so glad to be here, now.

    Speaking of scripting…I’ve found a couple things useful when I feel he’s being critical (maybe in my own mind), or saying something vaguely non-appreciative feeling. I say (with a coy smile and raised eyebrow) “Shop around”, or “Go find another one”. It’s perfect. Makes my point in a totally light-hearted way, and he usually can’t help but come kiss me.

    Would love to hear anything you’ve found useful.

  208.  #208Gemini Goddess on February 13, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    I guess those aren’t really feeling messages, though they do seem to get the desired result.

  209.  #209Gemini Goddess on February 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    Interesting. Feeling messages feel so serious to me, and I usually use humor. I need to think about that.

  210.  #210Labbit on February 13, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    193 Azure Blu — Yes! After posting the link I remember when I first found that post, it was back in October or whenever TenderCD and I’s relationship seemed to be falling apart…when he dumped me for an evening and I was left that night wondering how it had all gone so wrong…and something just clicked for me after reading that post where Rori made it so clear that I needed to INSPIRE TenderCD into on his own wanting to commit rather than trying to force him to want commitment with me. It was a total game-changer for me that inspired me to feel brave enough to stand up for myself in a way where he knew I wanted to be with him, that I cared for him and liked him, but wasn’t going to compromise my own life goals or wait for him off my bridge.

    I feel re-inspired reading the post. 🙂 A great reminder that no one likes to be forced into anything, man or woman.

    197 Lovergirl — I’m so glad it was helpful for you! I started writing a reply to you but it fell far short of Rori’s well-rounded, inspiring post. Knocked Up is one of my favorite movies oddly enough…I think it’s very well-done and treats all the characters with respect which is impressive given it’s a comedy.

    198 April Rose — If you notice a behavior, it’s over. You will notice it more quickly each time you start to ‘go there’ and in a short time it won’t even occur to you to act that way. But if you judge yourself for it and resist it, the behavior will stick to you like glue. So I say brava for realizing you do this, and cheers to not needing to do it anymore!!! 🙂

    204 lovetodance — I’m glad it resonated with you. 🙂

    206 Gemini Goddess — LOL I love your bon mots! You definitely have an attractively sassy way of responding to little respect tests from your man and I admire it. One thing I’ve noticed with feeling messages is that as my relationship with TenderCD builds in time, I don’t need to say ‘I feel’ all the time anymore. I just say what I feel, and the I feel part is assumed. Rori wrote a post with a letter about this…I’ll see if I can find it. Personally I tend to use feeling messages either when I’m really happy or angry. For me it doesn’t feel natural to use it all the time. I can remember TenderCD saying a few times ‘You sure feel a lot of things’ LOL.

    Back on the toss-away line, yeah I take a similar approach. TenderCD will sometimes tease me and then press his luck a bit. His latest is ‘joking’ about wanting to be polygamous after we’re married…just to see what my reaction is. He’s so NOT serious, this is not the way either of us would ever live. I know he wants me to blow my top, get jealous and tell him no way no how. So instead I just cock an eyebrow at him and say something like ‘I understand you want to explore all your options even if they’re horrible. I look forward to your future insane letters. Good luck because I sure as hell won’t be coming with you into that part of your life.’ He usually laughs and says something funny and then it’s over.

    Or one night when I was staying at his place he got home from work after me and he walks in, doesn’t say hello or ask me how my day was, he instead says ‘Why isn’t dinner on the table yet?’ in a sarcastic tone. And I shrugged and said something like ‘Looks like the chef has the evening off.’ Something that negotiates that I’m not agreeing to be responsible for making dinner every night. Again, he laughs. As long as the line is delivered with good humor, a wry smile (crooked in my case) and no loaded energy, he responds well. Likewise, I don’t mind the teasing because it’s a fun way to negotiate our relationship! Much more fun that having ‘serious conversations’ all the time.

    Sometimes we’ll go back and forth like this for an entire evening and I used to worry about it after, like oh god there were no feeling messages all night, I was up in my head and there no heart to heart moments?!! But I think it still works to bring us closer because it’s light and fun and we both go to sleep in extremely good moods, usually after some especially passionate lovemaking.

  211.  #211Lovergirl on February 13, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Im feeling taken care of :). My guy emailed me this morning to let me know he had left his phone at home just in case I had tried to message him. Since I rarely message him first that would be unlikely but I like that he was thinking about me. Then he texted later to say he had his phone and again just to say hi. Then he texts again and asked me if I “needed anything”. I told him I didnt need much except maybe some prenatal vitamins and he said okay, he would order them for me off Amazon (a small bottle of the ones I like is $35). I thought that was a sweet gesture and its definitely a step up from him shouting at me to get an abortion! Anyway, I know hes a good guy underneath it and Im feeling encouraged. I made sure to be very appreciative.

  212.  #212Emerson on February 13, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    Lovetodance and Labbit thank you for your comments to me! I feel heard and I appreciate your words…

    Lovetodance, I feel curious about that book about taking the war out of words…I will look for it.

    Labbit, Thank you for your comments about my friend who yes, is very much "cactus-ey"….
    I feel a little sensitive myself at the moment due to some work pressures and family issues….
    so I'm not sure I have a lot of endurance to deflect her prickliness…
    I feel like I need a break from her, and I feel so bad saying that because I feel like that sounds shallow…
    I don't have the energy to listen to her putting herself down and talking badly about herself and her body image. I find it immature and exhausting.

  213.  #213Silver-Tongued Siren on February 13, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    He is still rubber banding. He clearly still has feelings for me. Yet he seems conflicted.
    He has been connective.. far more connective, and we have also had sexual interactions as well.

    A year ago, We had redeveloped our connection over a few months, and I asked about moving in together, which he (appeared to) entertain but never answered. Two wks later he said he couldn’t work, had a medical issue, had to move an hour away to his family until it got better. (Five months later this was necessary and he left).

    We were also having sex, for a couple of months leading up to his leaving. I got pregnant, but had a very early miscarriage, the week of his moving (due to being sick and taking medications).

    A few weeks later, after acting funny, ignoring my texts frequently, he told me he was seeing someone else. (someone that I believe he had seen previously for some time). I tried to discuss with him, but he said he wanted things to move forward with that person and couldn’t if he didn’t clear things up with me.

    I let it go.
    But, here we are a year later, and I miss him, and he misses me, and we still have it for each other. Here we are, having sex, spending time together, being open to each other again.

    Yet he decides to spend CHRISTMAS, AND VALENTINE’S DAY with this other woman! He refused my desire to spend Christmas together, and instead took our child and spent the night with her! He didn’t ask to do anything for Valentine’s day and I told him it would feel nice to have our family together out camping at a friend’s place. (On short notice, as it was short notice to me), but he said he couldn’t. Yet it’s clear he CHOSE to spend Valentine’s Day with the another woman, not me.

    Clearly they are still spending time together, and I felt like I was doing a great job of being open and free, “rockstar” as rori puts it. I’ve got all kinds of men on my plate…

    Yet I’m having a hard time with this. I am actually feeling open to us seriously having a home and relationship and doing this thing together. Which he’s “wanted” to in the past but neither of us open heartedly pursued it because we were both scared, I think.

    One part of me wants to just give up on him entirely. Shut down, be cold, or at least, be cut and dry, no lingering when he picks up our child, no requests for snuggles or kisses, no nothing. No making things easy on him by allowing him to come late to pick up our child because he works those hours. No being extra flexible. Just civil, … I don’t feel my heart wanting to flirt. I just want to shut down.

    The other part of me wonders if I stay open, warm, smiling, flirty, if he’ll come around. But I feel like that gives him the idea I’m just waiting around. No matter how much I may see others. What do I have to do for this man to see that he needs to step up and claim it or he’s going to lose it? I have no shortage of men wanting to give me things, take me places, spend time with me, call me. Yet that doesn’t seem to be helping, in fact he may be fully oblivious to it.

    I’m not sure it’s helping, tho it is a good distraction at times, and fills me up a little, it really feels like more of a burden to pay attention to these men. It doesn’t satisfy me, I am not interested in them. There was one I actually fell for a bit, but I am already feeling dampened.

    I just want my family together, really, and that’s not going to change.

    Since he already had plans for Valentine’s day, I said ok, maybe next time. later i asked if he wanted to keep our child an extra night (valentine’s night, hehe) since he missed a day last wk. before he answered, I said “nevermind, his friends will be there (camping)”

    “I wish you were going to be there too, it would be nice to have our family together on a special day. We will miss you Xo”

    “I have been feeling closer with you. The last few months have been feeling better and better. I am feeling happy about it. If anything changes, lmk.”

    …. but what I really want to say is how much I’ve wanted to be together for years, and how much I want to be serious about having our family together. (he does know I want to have a home together).

    It is my own assumption but it just feels like he’s willing to drag it out as long as he can. It seems like he did the same to the other woman until she somehow inspired him and put the pressure on him to stop seeing me.

    I keep feeling like we’re definitely progressing, but here we are, another holiday that he made plans with someone else, and that doesn’t feel ok.

    To shut down and stop being as warm, inviting, flirty as I have been seems like it would do more damage, but … to continue being so open, warm, inviting, flirty, while he spends valentine’s day with someone else and not me, seems like being a doormat.

    And I’m just not sure what to say, other than my above quoted response.

  214.  #214Silver-Tongued Siren on February 13, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    I also feel conflicted about not giving him a card or any caring sentiment for valentine’s day.

    I feel like not giving him anything for valentine’s day makes the person who DOES seem that much more important, as he has a special fondness for handmade things and written letters.

    So it’s been hard not making him a card or anything, even though I know he’s not going to make me anything.

    I also feel I should point out here that he has in the past few years made many comments about how he feels unimportant to me in so many ways, (like the baby and I don’t need him, as I already had a family established previously, like he doesn’t get to do all he wants with our child, he has resentment against our childs other father (who was there for everything and provided everything), like I don’t care how he feels (despite always being clear in my actions that I DO care, that no one gets hurt and everyone feels loved). Basically I believe he in past years felt that if he didn’t get his way entirely then I just didn’t care. No compromises for that Aries.

    He has seemed previously entirely oblivious to all the ways in which I’ve made every effort to make him feel loved and important. I sense he is beginning to see it.

    It’s been a long two years of effort but I sense that he is beginning to feel cared about. It has taken me making extra efforts like letting him spend more time with our child than court ordered.. or.. being more agreeable, open and happy in general (although I was already agreeable to everything except when it was traumatic and unhealthy for our child).

    I think that the length of time I’ve gone on periodically re-stating what I’d like, in the last year, is beginning to show him that I mean it… however he’s still been entangled with this other woman.

    How can I inspire him more? I already have my own life completely separate from him, have plenty of men knocking on my door, … but he doesn’t ask me to do anything because he’s busy with this other girl. Yet he has been coming around, slowly spending more and more time with me – when he picks up our child.
    So that may be something to curb, but I don’t want to shut our RENEWED connection down, since he is willing to spend time with me that way.

    I do wish I could give him some heartfelt words for valentine’s day. Or that he imagined I was doing something more than camping with friends for Valentine’s day, (I actually do have a date there, since he is not going). I wish he felt the urgency to step it up or he will lose me. Apparently I have not done something enough.

  215.  #215Silver-Tongued Siren on February 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    209 Labbit!: I completely agree with you about humor, though I find it hard to come up with things sometimes, I will be practicing this more! I need to listen to more comedians, I guess. It’s easier when I’m in a really high and sassy mood! 😀

    So I’ll have to do more of the things that put me in that light mood! Like tonight I have been very tired so it is hard for me to feel as positive as usual. Lots of rest will be first on the list!

    I really like what you said in response to his polygamy comment- “even though they’re horrible” – “I look forward to your future insane letters” – lol. That was PERFECT and funny. Sounds like something I’d say but I think you did far better than I would have. Going to keep in mind being funny more often. I don’t like getting stuck in serious conversations either.

  216.  #216Azure Blu on February 14, 2015 at 12:24 am

    lovetodance #205
    your warm soft melody is lovely to read…
    I do like this…
    “teasing out the real vulnerable feelings….particularly when i feel afraid…is a delicate dance….an artform…”

  217.  #217Azure Blu on February 14, 2015 at 12:31 am

    {{{Silver tongue…}}}
    warm huggs for you..
    you are being so brave and sharing your vulnerability here with us…

    My thoughts are…
    it would be important to embrace the Rori tools
    and STOP focusing on your man…
    and turning all that love and attention on YOU…
    What ARE YOUR feelings…
    looking closely at why
    you are feeling abandoned…
    loving your feeling
    of being abandoned… sitting that feeling next to you and hugging and listening to you talk about being abandoned…
    As Rori teaches…
    CHERISHING YOU… lovely Siren…
    Is the KEY…

  218.  #218Indigo on February 14, 2015 at 1:15 am

    lovetodance 205,

    “teasing out the real vulnerable feelings….particularly when i feel afraid…is a delicate dance….an artform…i am so afraid i will speak too much of my insecurities when speaking in feeling messages and being in my vulnerability….”

    This is a real fear of mine as well. I am so sensitive, and in so many ways sooo tender-hearted that I often feel like an alien in this world. The feeling for me when I am hurt or sad or disappointed or heartbroken is akin to a flower whose petals are crushed and wilting. It is SUCH a vulnerable and terrifying feeling, that I don’t feel I can share it with another person. It lays bare something in me which is so gentle and vulnerable and sensitive that I am too afraid to share it with another person because I am afraid of what they will do.

  219.  #219Kim on February 14, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Uh oh. Having all kinds of conflicting feelings.
    Was really enjoyig having my apartment to myself this morning, and wondered how it would be when he moves in..with his big and loud TV on all hours.
    I felt kinda dreading it.
    The man has turned around so much, we had a romantic and action filled weekend last week…all organized and booked by him. He doesn’t like Valentine’s Day and I am kinda neutral on it…but he already booked us a dinner at a romantic place a few weeks ago and never said anything, so sweet.
    Yet I am feeling weird.
    I don’t know why?
    Maybe because I don’t really have the commitment I want (I do want to get married and although we spoke about it a few times, he never brings it up, or moves us towards it).
    Maybe I don’t feel trusting…sometimes I don’t hear from him for long periods…hours…and I still have a sickly feeli about his attachment to the ex, who has now stalked his fb (they are not friends on fb -yet) and proceeded to stalk me, on fb and on linkedin and presumably other social media. I am out there. They have been apart 7 years….but she seems very curious…why?
    We always spend all bank holidays together. Monday I cancelled a work appointment, because he told me we would have a lomg weekend as he has Monday off. Turns out he booked his car in and has to cycle back home…and cycle back to get it later in the day.
    So he says: well, we can meet in the evening…although he has the whole day free. The car repair shop, and therefor his cycle route…is right next to his ex’s house.
    I feel suspicious.
    Maybe for no reason.
    I feel annoyed that I can’t ask him or bring it up because we have already had so many discussions about this attachment (he fixes stuff for her and used to walk in and out of her apartment to pet sit, and once dropped me for a romantic weekend because he helped her with something).
    If I bring it up his walls will go up..and I will get emotional: drama.
    I am sure it is nothing and it is just my mind fabricating stuff, but….undoubtedly something feels off here.
    Maybe my fear of intimacy and commitment.
    It also feels like a little pull back from him.
    He didn’t ask me for a date last night which he always does. And got home late.
    Ok. So.
    My plan is to:
    Just spend Monday pleasing myself….I still have gift cards. I will go shopping and will not be available for a date or chamge my plans. I trust he is not spending any of his day with his ex, and I am goimg to completely focus away from that and onto me.
    I am not bringing up marriage.
    I have a time-line in my head. In August we will have dated for 2 years with a couple of breaks due to above issues lol.
    That is enough for me.
    If nothing happens by then, he is welcome to rent the Condo from me and I am returning to Europe. That would be in my best interests, professionally, financially, and also emotionally.
    I do not feel like leading horses to water. I explained and expressed many times the dealbreakers (seeing ex 1on1 and helping her). I expressed many times my wish for happily ever after with a man…and we have discussed things already.
    I am going to see what he shows me.
    2 years feels like a loooooong time.
    Ok, I feel much better now…thank you 🙂

  220.  #220Kim on February 14, 2015 at 6:05 am

    My new mantra: I deserve it all.
    If a man after considerable time, doesn’t want to give me all, then, well, then he doesn’t dessrve All OF ME.

  221.  #221Kim on February 14, 2015 at 6:13 am

    I realize also, some of my friends have seen us together many times….and they will excitedly say ‘oooh maybe he proposes Christmas, he looks so in love with you’…’oooh maybe New Years’…..and lately my best friend here said ‘OMg wait, he is going to propose on valentines’
    Thing is, I know he wouldn’t and won’t.
    Which feels ok, but a little sad too, you know, we would all like a man who can’t WAIT to make us his, right?
    I don’t feel excited like my friends, because I know him.
    So I know he wouldn’t.

    I feel myself being happy that he is moving in with me and helping me with bills and makes a lot of sacrifices for this. But so do I. Financially it is of benefit for us both, especially him. So, that is not really the big commitment for me, it is a practicality and a little commitment lol.
    Before, I was thinking it is a huge commitment but now I feel i deserve it all.
    I have become quite the madam. I blame Rori 🙂

  222.  #222Femininewoman on February 14, 2015 at 6:51 am

    Kim I hear you. The one thing I got from your last is a suggestion of an investment. Almost like looking for a return on an investment.

    Can I suggest that this is just one level of commitment? Look over the time you have been together and see if you have moved from one commitment to the other. Then see if you can imagine if there is any other commitment that you can both negotiate and grow into. Marriage really is only one. When you get there then what?

  223.  #223Mistea1 on February 14, 2015 at 7:29 am

    Kim 219,
    You are doing so well. Congratulations!
    Sounds like you have explained yourself very well and several times at that.

    I like FW’s comment too about commitment levels. Looking at the actions now may be where it’s at too. It’s interesting to see what they come up with.

    Hugs to you.

  224.  #224Kim on February 14, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Very well FW, good points!
    I guess I justbdon’t feel like ‘investing’ more time than 2 years into a relationship that is not headed anywhere…and right now it is kind of headed somewhere even though it wasn’t an easy ride.
    I have been CDing a lot. And it has shown me men that were more active and unafraid to offer more commitment sooner, but they were not a good match for other reasons.
    Now, it’s time to see where the chips are falling.
    I have a good man.
    However, he seems to be dragging his heels with issues that mean a lot to me, and staying silent a lot about things that need to be talked about.
    We are all different.
    Though, there are things us women like and like to hear, I guess…and so far I do not quite feel safe that I am his ‘one’, and for me I would like to feel safe knowing a man wants to spend the rest of his life with me. And then I get to choose.
    Right now, it is more like he doesn’t seem to know….still has other attachments that don’t feel good to me etc.
    So, we will see what happens.
    Honestly, I do love him, but I love myself so much more and I am just not prepared to wait out a man anymore. For me, if he doesn’t know after 2 years, or still needs to cater to another, past woman and her whims, I will be finishing this, moving away, and concentrate my boy energy on my professional and financial well-being.
    Part of me feels excited about that.
    So, I am really not worried…there are pros and cons for both scenarios. 🙂

  225.  #225Kim on February 14, 2015 at 8:29 am

    And thank you too Mistea 🙂

  226.  #226Labbit on February 14, 2015 at 8:29 am

    218 Kim — OK this might sound a little weird but bear with me. I have several close male friends in my life and about 6 of them are married. Of those 6 at least 2 or 3 of them either made contact with an ex or went to hang out with an ex who was already chasing them (and I do mean just hang out, nothing physical happened in either scenario, talking only) right before they proposed to their then-gfs-now-wives. The other 3 might have as well and just never mentioned it to me. Or they might not have done it at all.

    My take on this is that men do it to:
    1 – reassure themselves that they are desirable to more than woman before diving into a commitment
    2 – do one last gut check to make sure they don’t have feelings for anyone else
    3 – need that one last ego boost before they fully commit to one person forever

    The men doing this know it’s ‘wrong’ in a way and they don’t want to alarm their gfs so they’d usually take great pains to conceal it. But again, it’s not about cheating. It’s more about reassuring themselves before they buy the ring, before they mentally move fully into that marriage-minded place.

    I am not saying MoM is doing this. But even if he were I wouldn’t be surprised or concerned. It has nothing to do with his feelings for you or commitment to you and I doubt he’d do anything to jeopardize that.

    You simply keep on being your Siren self. There’s no need to concern yourself with what he might be doing (but probably isn’t). If he starts to feel your suspicions that will create distance, or there might already be a little bit of distance. Don’t do anything. Let there be that little bit of space and he will snap back to you in amazing ways. Like you say in your comment, keep pleasing yourself and being happy and doing what makes you feel good. It will make you all the more alluring while he might be getting a dose of reminder of why he broke up with the ex in the first place. 😉

    You got this.

  227.  #227Mandy on February 14, 2015 at 8:30 am

    So, big clue –

    I was in the moment, just asking J curious questions in the middle of the night, when he is most vulnerable. I honestly genuinely felt his floodgates burst open – he explained to me he’s “out to lunch” because he can’t stop thinking of how much he hates it here in this city, and how depressed he is living here and how much he wants to get out of here with me.

    He explained, he feels completely defeated, because before he met me, he was in Seattle, loving it there, but had a bout of serious depression and an attempt at his own life, and his parents demanded he come out here from Seattle and threatened to disown him if he did not, then pretty much left him here in the city, so he feels hurt and betrayed by them, and says he doesn’t know what in the hell he’d be doing if it weren’t for me.

    It’s sweet to acknowledge me, but it is scary to hear. His mom told his dad she’d divorce him if he didn’t take his anti-depressants, and I don’t blame her, because marriage is a negotiation, a decision, but being someone’s child isn’t something you choose – so if a mother just gives up her son she’s essentially copping out. You can’t divorce your kid, that’s just wrong, I don’t care how you try to cut the cake. (This is why I don’t know if I like his mom or family very much, because they think they can just threaten him all the time to keep him around, on an emotional leash – I have to admit, I have a little worry about being with a man who is under his family’s emotional control, but it’s not something I can’t handle, it just might be an issue to talk out.)

    I cried a little bit when I told him I hope he doesn’t feel like I’m slowing the process, because he said that logically it would be easier if it were just him, let’s just be honest – but he wants me with him anyway. The reason why I cried was because it felt worrisome to me. It felt like he was about to say he was going to leave me here in the dust, but then he made sure I knew that isn’t his plan at all. This sounds weird, but I feel like this is the first time a man has made an effort to make sure I wasn’t going to be in emotional agony worrying about him leaving me.

    I felt it was the most honest he’d been in a long time. He’d said something about it this past summer. I remember very clearly. The message was very clear, he said he wants, which is to move to someplace better, and because of it, right now he’s totally out to lunch because all he can think of is how much he hates it where he lives currently, here, in this city.

    Can’t fix this for him, but I can take a hint, lol. He needs to go into his man-cave…or I need to take even more space!

    I know all I can do is pretty much be me. If a guy is totally out to lunch there’s really nothing I can do, except kind of gently let him be, enjoy myself and not waste any time lamenting… Am I right?

    Okay, enough for now…I am going to go get a professional massage now…out to lunch Sirens…not to say I won’t think and feel on this but I intend to have an awesome massage and let go of some tension with a little help…

  228.  #228Kim on February 14, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Labbit! Whoa! I love that post!!
    Even though I don’t think MoM is doing what your friends’ guys did, pretty sure in fact, I love what you wrote!
    So true!
    Although, I do believe that if he sneaked around behind my back with concealing seeing a girl one on one, that would be kind of a dealbreaker for me really.
    He asked me to stop CDing so that we could deepen our commitment. i hesitated…and then relented, because I coukd see his point also…
    But I am totally intolerant of me stopping CDing men (no longer having (one-on-one) dates with guys for dinner etc, if he thinks it is ok to do just that with his ex. I also told him that for me it is the same.
    If he was to be also dishonest about it, I can assure you we’d be pretty much over because I severely dislike dishonesty and we both already discussed that lies and cover ups are unacceptable for us in a relationship.
    I have always been totally transparent with him.
    Even when I was CDing, nkt rubbing it in his face, but if he asked me a question I never lied.

  229.  #229Andrea on February 14, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Siren Song: Valentine Weekend for the Single Girl

    Riffs and In the moment impressions…

    Driving five railroad men out to their field this morning:
    “You know I feel such a queezy feeling in my stomach everytime I hear the “F” word.”

    All five men… “Oh my goodness, sorry sorry.. so sorry.. yes, we forget what it’s like to be around a lady.”

    Last night at the Karoake bar all the married men around our table asking me: “Why are still single? You are so beautiful, sexy, vivacious… etc…”
    Me: “honestly.. I don’t know.”
    Not one single man approached me.

    Text messages from the one I though I wanted. Two days ago I was physically sick. He texted after not calling me the night before even though he’d said he would.
    He texted: Good early afternoon beautiful lady. How are you today?
    And I texted: I am feeling so sick. My back hurts so bad I am nauseous.
    Then he texted me almost every hour telling me how he hates it that I feel bad, that he’s not with to take care of me, that it hurts him to know I’m in pain and I need him and he’s not with me. Checking up on me (through text) through out the whole day and evening.

    And it felt good to have someone text those things to me, but it meant so little. I realized that texting does keep two people partially connected but it does not lead to an intimate bond for me.
    I feel that RRguy is my texting pal. And if he wants to be a texting pal, when he texts me, If I’m fine with having a texting pal, I will respond. I have so far.

    But I don’t go on dates with a texting pal. I don’t have sex with a texting pal. I don’t have texting pals over to my home. A texting pal doesn’t leap from text messages to my heart, to my body, to my energy, to my time from texting.

    So I’m not mad or hurt or longing for more from that HIM. I’m realizing that texting pal is okay with me as long as it’s okay with me. And when it’s not then I’ll just stop responding.

    And I’ve been reading everyone’s comments about letting him pace things. So I lean back and let all these texting pals take things at their own pace and either some of them will drop off or some of them will step up and go from texting to the next step which for me would be calling.

    Maybe it’s my whole vibe which is saying “take things really really slow with my tender and vulnerable heart. I need to see you coming for me a long long way off in order to ready myself for the intense intimacy that will envelope us once you finally get here.”

    I’m not angry anymore or anxious or yearning or urgent. I feel resolute and solid in my own indentity and my moment by moment life is very exciting.

    I think I’m becoming a magnet just because of my relaxed vibe. People, not just men, but people are drawn to me and they are happy smiling people.

    The more time I spend with my daughters the more laughter we share, the more in common we have. Last night I took them out for dinner and we all three laughed that we all three are single for Valentine’s. My youngest is happy that she finally got a date for Military Ball and I felt strange that I hadn’t realized how silently stressed she had been about that. And yet, things seem to work out. We purchased the dress a while ago with the confident intent that she would have a date. And I told her not to force it.

    I feel love today. Quiet, peaceful, solitude type love.

  230.  #230Indigo on February 14, 2015 at 9:40 am

    So, it is nearly the end of Valentine’s Day in my part of the world, and I’ve had a day for which I feel very grateful. I don’t want to go into the details quite yet because I want to hold them very close to me for now, for fear that I will break the magic, but I came home to find a big beautiful delivery of peach, pink and white roses for me… and I learned something very valuable about love and about myself, and I dearly want to expand on it and hold it close to my heart. I want to keep going on this journey and trying my best, however hard it may feel at times, and I feel so thankful my heart could burst.

    I just want to encourage the Sirens here today. However things may look, believe that you are born under a special star, and that things WILL work out for the best, because they will.

  231.  #231April Rose on February 14, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Yay for Valentine’s Day for the single girl!!

    My inner boy has bought me a heart-shaped box of chocolates and is taking me to the movies to see the steamy Fifty Shades of Grey!

    I feel so excited!

  232.  #232April Rose on February 14, 2015 at 9:46 am

    I wish each one of you a beautiful beautiful day.

    And I want to share this treasure from Rori’s teleclass –
    (my interpretation of her words)

    Feelings of pain, heartbreak, nausea, panic; in fact all the sensations from any kind of trigger – they arise because that is where the healing happens. You feel them. And then when you’re done some, you shake yourself like a dog shaking off water.

    I LOVE THIS. Already my fear of being triggered (which is large enough for me to have made me a semi-hermit) is halved. I’m even WANTING to be triggered, so that I can feel all that awkward painful stuff. So that I can SHAKE IT OUT!!!!

    Yeah…yay…doing a ‘Happy and single on Valentine’s Day’ dance!!!!

  233.  #233Kim on February 14, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Love that Indigo! You deserve all that and a lot more ❤️

    I have been unsireny sireny…lol..well, my history is that I always hold everrythin in and then explode, so for me it is a biiiiig step to actually let things out in a controlled and non-explosive way.

    I texted with MoM this morning and in one of the texts, I told him that his ex had been checking me out on various social media profiles, and that it feels weird to me

    He didn’t even answer the text, he just sent me a link to a website saying that it is impossible to tell whether someone looked at your fb profile.
    I was a little shocked. Because he immediately assumed that I have made this up, rather than assuming that I was speaking the truth and that his ex could/would do anything like that.

    That did not feel good. So I got defensive and said that I saw her viewing me under an anonymous profile in linkedin (with only her job title, so it is clear it was her)…and I said that ot does not matter to me what she does, but I noted it and felt weird about it, but that it does matter to me that he straight away jumped to the conclusion that I had been fantasizing. And protecting her basically.

    I don’t know how I feel about that. Not good anyway.
    Since this is a really silly issue, I will just let it go.

    Does not feel like we are a team. That much I note.

  234.  #234Kim on February 14, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Back to concentrating on all the good stuff in my life! 🙂
    A great guy, a Valentine’s meal booked, wonderful weather, had an amazing run….now I get to spend the afternoon pampering myself.

  235.  #235Kim on February 14, 2015 at 10:58 am

    And so I just got delivered a big bouquet and chocolates from my admirer in Boston…happy happy

  236.  #236Liquid Light on February 14, 2015 at 11:04 am

    I’m going to get my pedicure and manicure today. And then I’m going to a BBQ that my friend is having for v day. She’s really fun and has tons of friends, both male and female so I think it will be really fun. I got a new cute pink top that I’m looking forward to wearing. And I finally figured out how to style my new haircut so I think I’m going to look pretty hot! LOL. I’m actually more excited about going to the party than going on a date today! There’s always so much pressure on v day and unless its with someone that I’m really excited about and have been dating for a while then its just kinda awkward. I did get two very sweet texts from guys who are out of town that I’ve been on one date with. I have a date with one of them on Tuesday. He really does seem like a good guy.

    Happy Valentine’s Day, ladies!

  237.  #237Liquid Light on February 14, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Indigo, Kim, awhh so sweet, flowers delivered to you on Valentine’s Day!!! How awesome! 🙂

  238.  #238Azure Blu on February 14, 2015 at 11:11 am

    So wonderful to hear more about your Siren journey!

    If it were me… I would be having extreme intimacy issues right about now… thinking about sharing space with a wonderful man – EVEN though it is EXACTLY what I WANT… ??!!

    Give yourself sooo much LOVE and YOU do deserve
    All the love from MoM he seems to be sending your way.. You and I share the same thrill of CDing
    It is always makes me feel so DA*N vulnerable to just be with one man…
    Hang in there Girl… Notice all the triggering that is coming up so you can
    HEAL this For YOU@!!
    Happy valentines day!!
    I am jealouse… 0 flowers from any cd’s?!!s

  239.  #239Azure Blu on February 14, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Happy Valentines Day to alllll you wonderful Sirens…
    You make me feel loved, charished and heard…
    Thank you from the top of my heart!!

  240.  #240Kim on February 14, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Hello Azure!
    Ugh. I am thinking of cancelling tonights dinner. I did not hear from him other than the link he sent me basically telling me I made it all up.
    I feel a little furious that a man who wants to move in with me, and professes to love me, accuses me of making stuff up.
    I don’t really want that.
    Maybe I will suggest to him to cancel…IDK.
    It would be a waste of money at this point lol.

  241.  #241Indigo on February 14, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Thank you Kim & Liquid Light xx

    Azure Blu – this that you said gave me pause “If it were me… I would be having extreme intimacy issues right about now… thinking about sharing space with a wonderful man – EVEN though it is EXACTLY what I WANT… ??!!”

    One thing my mom said to me today – we were discussing my childhood which was like a warzone for large parts of it – shouting and verbal abuse and even some physical abuse. And how in a way that I wasn’t even aware of, I came to associate love with feeling bad. How I came, on some level, to feel that fighting was normal.

    I am of course trying to undo this old programming with everything that is in me – I was just an innocent little girl and it wasn’t my fault. But yes, of course there is a feeling of “deer in the headlights” and flat-out fear when I think of having what I SAY I WANT – a peaceful, happy, content relationship with no fighting and a man who loves and cherishes me. It’s funny isn’t it? Those of us who have had that traumatic past, and we get used to the bad feeling and the struggle… and we must gently and persistently keep working to something better for ourselves. Keep ALLOWING love in. I realized I am not so good at allowing a man to love me. I sometimes push it away or it makes me uncomfortable, EVEN when it’s a man I love! Oh I feel such compassion for myself. I will persevere gently with myself, keep healing, keep breaking through to new awareness, keep being aware of my triggers and not responding to them in the old ways. I will keep doing it and it will get better and better.

  242.  #242IamHis on February 14, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    @233 Kim – Kim, you inspire me, but this doesn’t seem like you at all! Who cares about his ex-girlfriend or if she’s checking you out! Let her do it (if she even is) & don’t drag him into it! The accusation that he is protecting her (whether you verbalized it or not) seems so ridiculous to me. Hope that doesn’t trigger you, but I just think you are so above caring about an ex girlfriend of his that may or may not be Web stalking you! Forget about her and shine your own fabulous light! 🙂

  243.  #243Sophie on February 14, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    I had the joy of avoiding the valentines’ trigger – it’s not really a big thing here so I felt no emotion tug one way or another. I spent a really fun evening watching Swedish drag queens massively enjoy themselves singing karaoke. The last month of so has been a really strange period of time. I have had an influx of feelings – a rollercoaster and a very confused feeling around my identity – who I am? What am I doing? What am I wanting? What am I feeling?

    Sirenwise has also been confusing. I would probably say that I am in the completely wrong environment for me, yet, the fact that I am here means on some level it must be the right environment. I may not make the sense of it until it is past. I can say I have honoured my authenticity under very difficult circumstances. I have ended up in this kind of full-one hedonistic party place – and I am not a full on hedonistic party person. It has felt painfully uncomfortable at times but I’ve honoured my authenticity. I don’t drink – I have refused to be anything but myself and feel included sometimes at other times ignored. I can not fulfil the agenda of drinking myself into oblivion, or into people’s beds. This makes me uninteresting to many of the people around me, yet I refuse to be anything but true to myself. I have felt humiliated, excluded, overlooked and frustrated. My agenda was for more healing (maybe this is occurring) and to find more balance.I have actually felt like i’m back in secondary school and suffered a lot of feelings of self-consciousness and at times loneliness.Yet, I keep being me. Money has been a disaster and I have felt stressed and panicked and relied on the support of others a lot which makes me feel infantile. I haven’t put much of a siren self out there, other than the absolute resolution to be myself and hence ween out any potentials that way. I have felt disappointed that there have been no communications from any of the men I’ve been involved with, or have met along the way but some of this is good news (even though I don’t like it 🙂 and some of it is probably understandable. I don’t know how open I am. I’m open in my energies of love and compassion and non-judgmentalism and just being easy going with everyone’s vibe but I think the fact I don’t want to drink and sleep with everyone has caused some confusion. I am like alien woman, strange woman.Though not without allure none the less. There is a man who is a huge flirt and alludes to sexual encounters with women who who he has had history with though I feel odd around him. Or rather, I confuse him I think. He says I play my cards close to my chest but I don’t think I do. I’m open to the right questions. There have been odd moments when he has been around me and a woman who I know he has history with and he’s said things like I’d be open to a relationship with the right woman and looked at me. I feel uncomfortable for the other woman. I feel grateful I’m not her. And, things like ‘I should marry you’ to me. But it feels weird, like he has a projection about me that isn’t real. Still, I feel respect (I think) from these men – not just him – that I’m ‘unusual for here’ self contained. That perhaps is high value, or a high value feeling, I don’t know. I’m in no rush to meet the wrong man, or to sleep with anyone – I feel way too self protective. And I think I self-protect more in self-destructive ways such as not really caring that much about my appearance when there’s gorgeous women everywhere. And not looking after my health which would help me feel much more sexy. It may be nice if I felt more open and fun and tantilizing but I really don’t want to feel those things without the foundation of some stability in my life and my self. Sensuality I can do – sensuality in the beautiful sunshine, and flowy dresses but even that is more for me, than to catch the eye of anyone….unless he is truly exceptional and truly exceptional would be someone who was interested in knowing ME and not just getting me into bed.

    Happy valentines day every one – self-love rules xxx

  244.  #244Liquid Light on February 14, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Kim, I’m with Iamhis on this one. I would just try to let it flow like water off your back. The reason why the ex is stalking you on FB is probably because she feels threatened by you. You she can sense your boyfriend’s feelings for you and the shift in the dynamics.

    The fact that she is doing this shows who has the power in the relationship now, that’s YOU! Just enjoy it, look yourself in the mirror, give yourself a little wink, put on that hot outfit, and go out and have yourself a wonderful valentine’s night with your sweetie! 🙂

  245.  #245Sophie on February 14, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    Indigo – I have that – such a difficult dynamic to break – in the four months I’ve been away the only real intense pull I’ve had towards a man was a grumpy, moody one who showed me attention sometimes, yet when he hugged me it felt like being ‘home’. Craziness.I also find love very painful – even joyful love like when i get on so well with my parents my heart swells – and I don’t like the swelling – it hurts. I don’t know what it’s about, not feeling good enough for the love, or feeling the fear of loss.I don’t know how to love and not feel pain…so I avoid it in all sorts of ways I think xxx

  246.  #246Mistea1 on February 14, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Sophie 243,
    I liked the last two lines of your post, ‘interested in knowing me and sensuality.”

    Yes, it’s worth waiting for and loving ourselves for.

  247.  #247Mistea1 on February 14, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    All Sirens,
    Here’s a Valentines Gift for all of you.

    Close your eyes, hold out your hand palm up. Sense the warmth of my hand above yours and feel the feather touch of something dropping into your palm.

    Open your eyes and see the red, tiny, foil heart glistening in the light.

    From my heart to yours, Happy Valentines Day!

    I actually did this during my first job after I got my divorce. I bought a bunch of those little sticky hearts and went around where I worked saying it to all I could find. I was so surprised by the reaction of both men and women. Some actually got tears in their eyes. One guy said his wife had died about 9 months prior. I saw those hearts on their nametags for the entire 2 years I worked at that place. Amazing what a dollars worth of hearts will do.

    Interesting the guy I was dating would not hold out his hand! Well, he was kicked to the curb!

  248.  #248Kim on February 14, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    244,Liquid light, I have decided to do just that!
    Got over my cranky from earlier. Lol.
    Great reminder, thank you!

  249.  #249Kim on February 14, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    242 IamHis, I totally agree with you..in fact, the issue wasn’t her stalking…it was him not believing me, his current gf…for the best of 1 1/2 years..that’s what got my goat.
    And seriously, I saw all this already a week ago and again today and thought a million times about even mentioning it….usually I wouldn’t have. So I experimented and it backfired, or not, because it does feel kinda important to me how he reacted. And a little annoying.

  250.  #250Kim on February 14, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    ‘To find out how he reacted’
    I would have reacted with curiosity, and humor. He reacted defensively and basically saying it is impossible and insinuating I was making it up.
    This doesn’t feel inspiring, that is all.
    It’s about trust. I don’t feel trusted, basically.
    But yeah, ridiculous issue. I would have laughed it off had it not produced a text from him saying it can’t be. Lol.
    I will soon know where this is headed…

  251.  #251Femininewoman on February 14, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Kim I feel so unsettled reading your last comments. I wish you would just choose trust and let the chips fall where they may. Trust yourself. Rori does talk about exclusivity creating problems for us, maybe that is what it is. Just lean back into yourself siren and stay open to being surprised. Right now your words suggest you are too focused on MoM and what he is doing.

  252.  #252Femininewoman on February 14, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    See trust came up in your comments while I was writing, Choose trust. Choose trust. He will show you if he can be trusted.

  253.  #253Mistea1 on February 14, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Awww, I got an email Valentine from my email Lawguy, sweet.

  254.  #254Liquid Light on February 14, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Kim 248 I’m so glad! Have a great time!

  255.  #255Liquid Light on February 14, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    Thank you, Mistea, I got the heart and felt it! 🙂

    Happy Valentine’s Day to you too, sweetie!

  256.  #256RileyTheOwl on February 14, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Ups and downs, valentines day, warm sunlight streaming in the window…
    I live in one of the only places of Canada where the cherry blossoms on trees bloom in early February 🙂
    Today has been the nicest day yet this year, the first spring-feeling day.
    Today feels like a sigh. Like all the bad has been breathed out,
    One huge exhale of the universe, the cherry trees, of me.
    All the bad stuff has been breathed out, and now the blossoms and the sunlight are warming up everything they touch,
    My insides feel all warm and melty.
    The garden in the back yard is crying of joy with all this sunlight, the whole house is soaking up the light coming in the Windows,
    It’s light feels so positive and rich and full 🙂

    My last two weeks have been an absolute whirlwind turmoil both inside me as my emotions as well as externally and the things happening around me.

    My parents are getting divorced.

    I felt this huge grief. This black hole growing inside of me, gaping, sucking up other people’s emotions and feeling my mother’s depression, feeding off of it.

    I’ve spent the last week grieving, but the last few days I’ve felt less grief. I trust they (my parents) are on their paths to healing, and I must not let myself get sucked into their problems.

  257.  #257April Rose on February 14, 2015 at 4:30 pm


    Reading your post I felt myself there in your Spring garden. It feels lush and full of promise and joy.

    As for the grief and other emotions and triggers, Rori says we should feel them and then shake ourselves. Like a wet dog shaking off water. This is a way to heal. I’d love to know what experiences you might have, experimenting with this.

  258.  #258Lovergirl on February 14, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Im feeling a mix of emotions. I woke up to a gush of blood this morning that eventually turned into a miscarriage. I passed something that looked like it may have been twins. Ive cried some but I mostly feel numb.

    I called to tell my guy and he invited me over. He said he wanted to support me. He took me out to lunch and we went back to his place to watch tv and talk.

    Meanwhile I was still bleeding a lot and making runs to the restroom. I got blood all over the rug in front of his toilet and twas embarrassed but asked if he wanted me to throw it in the washing machine. He ended up doing the wash himself and letting me lay down.

    Later he made me a plate of crackers and cheese and sausages, grapes and nuts and brought me an apple beer. He talked about taking me to the mall sometime and buying me some things. Hes never offered anything like that before but I could tell he was sincere.

    He gave me hugs though I had to tell him I wanted comfort a couple of times before he would cuddle with me. I broke down crying before I left and asked him if he had a date tonight. He said no way in hell was he taking some random woman out tonight, of all nights (lol).

    So while I didnt get anything romantic from him, I do feel cared about. He told me he hadn’t said anything but that hed found a house near me he was seriously considering buying and that he had really started to come around about the baby. He sounded disappointed about the miscarriage, which is a long way off from telling me to get an abortion.

  259.  #259Tee on February 14, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    So sorry Lovergirl 🙁

  260.  #260Sophie on February 15, 2015 at 4:08 am

    ((((lovergirl)))) (((riley)))

  261.  #261Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Indigo #241!!
    YES… that is what I needed to hear…
    Sinking into what I NEED to learn from this trigger from Spirit…
    Beating my Self up over NOT being able to let
    a loving and AVAILABLE man into MY HEART…
    BUT I want to do what you are talking about…

    “and we must
    gently and persistently keep working
    to something better for ourselves.
    Keep ALLOWING love in.”

    It took 63 years to get to this place… it will take
    time to GENTLY move ME into position to
    ALLOW someone to LOVE ME..
    NOT the ones who make ME feel
    Which is what my ADDICTION CRAVES…

  262.  #262Lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 9:49 am

    Ohhhhh azure blu I feel so touched by your words and your path. Really sheds light on mine. So much love to you.

  263.  #263Lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Thank you all sirens for the beautiful love messages for valentines. Such a heavenly community of loveliness. I had a wonderful valentines. Cding with life!

  264.  #264Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 9:53 am

    soo great to hear from you Girl!!

  265.  #265Liquid Light on February 15, 2015 at 9:57 am

    I had the craziest night last night. I went to my friend’s v day BBQ and it was really low-key. Not too many people showed up even though she an amazing spread of food. Then after a few hours, a man shows up who is just incredibly attractive. The tall dark and handsome type who is a mixture of German and Spanish.

    He recently broke up with his girlfriend and he was kinda going on and on about her. But he brought the Five Love Languages as a way to understand their relationship. He seemed very thoughtful about it and real into it.

    Then we were in the kitchen and he came over and wanted to give me a hug. It felt so good, the hug started as an embrace but then kinda evolved a little. Then the hug evolved to a kiss and the long and the short of it is that we ended up making out on the couch for over an hour!

    It was so crazy and I’m feeling a bit embarrassed about it. But it was fun and I’ve been feeling like I liked to find someone sexy to help me break my spell (haven’t had sex in over 2 years). And then he shows up. He wanted me to come back home with him which I didn’t. And wanted to see me today but I have plans. I think it would be just about sex. There’s part of me that would love that and part of me that’s not sure. He called me this AM and left a message – he’s got the sweetest sounding voice. It kinda just melts me.

  266.  #266April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 9:59 am


    Have you had a blood test recently to test for anaemia?

    I have a couple of friends who miscarried due to being anaemic.

    Love to you, and to your soup of powerful emotions at this time.

  267.  #267Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 9:59 am

    loveto… huggsss…
    thank you…

    I ran into Spirit at the bar where many folks my age in town go to dance to a live band on Fri. nights… went with friends who’s brother was playing in the band…
    there Spirit was… dancing with other women… me too, dancing with other men… by myself…
    I asked him to dance… It was a mutual break up…
    I want to be able to be friends…
    I was VERY triggered seeing him…
    He text “thank yo for the dance… wonderful & heart aching… good to wee you.”
    I text: “Yes… wonderful and heart aching”

    So I have been feeling missing, and yearning…
    started re reading Toxic Men…
    Rori asks… what do you get from him:
    All I could figure out was
    “He makes me feel invisible”
    and “Love takes Hard work”
    Now I can do the work
    to let MORE LOVE in…
    Being invisible is NOT love that i want.
    Thank you Universe for this!!!
    I can continue to Gently let my heart open
    to MORE love.

  268.  #268April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 10:02 am

    Liquid Light,


    Rori said on the tele class that every woman needs a lover. We need to feel desired, and we need to have our body touched by a man.
    She said take a lover. And if you know he is not your forever guy, keep circular dating as well!

  269.  #269Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Lay down and take VERY good care of yourself…

    When I have had miscarriages…
    My doctors have sent me to the hospital
    to have a succtioning out to make sure everything
    is gone…
    Have you been to your DR?

  270.  #270Lovergirl on February 15, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Thank you to everyone who offered their condolences. April Rose, I have not been tested for anemia but that is a possibility. I often am very close to being anemic during pregnancy and I was craving iron rich foods. I also may have low progesterone because my cycles have been short and I have had issues with pms and heavy bleeding. I bought some over the counter progesterone cream at the health food store, but it was probably too late for it to help this time around. Ive had 3 miscarriages and one live birth since I turned 30. :/ (Im 38).

    Azure Blue- thank you and no I haven’t been to the doctor. I didnt go with my other miscarriages either and seemed to be ok. Im pretty sure everything is coming out because I have lost a lot of blood and clots. I do have an ultrasound scheduled in about a week and a half and may still go just to make sure everything is cleared out.

  271.  #271Mistea1 on February 15, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Azure Blu 267,
    Thanks for your post. I hope I never run into him anywhere. It would be like getting shot.

  272.  #272April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 10:52 am


    It does sound to me like your iron levels are very low.
    And they will be even lower after heavy bleeding.


  273.  #273lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 11:51 am

    ..sending much support…and chiming in with others about taking as much time as you can to rest and i know you have a full plate…so glad you will be getting an ultrasound next week….advice mode continues….eat alot of greens!


    …i so feel you….brave gracious siren for keeping cordial warm….the best way to go…you are just getting more and more ready….so fabulous you have named so many of the dynamics that keep us from getting what we REALLLY need….keep on your beautiful stead azure…i know you will….

    ..yes break that spell….enjoy yourself darling….i get a vicarious thrill from you sireny self….being able to whats what is so powerful i feel!

  274.  #274lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 11:53 am


    just so happy to hear you on the island again….welcome back…i need some time to read more closely how and where you are…

    just wanted to say hello and send hugs!

  275.  #275lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 11:54 am


    what i meant was being able to know whats what and proceed from that…ohhhh ssooo powerful…..

  276.  #276Posie on February 15, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Hello everyone, reading all your posts has given me courage to open myself to your thoughts. I’ve been in a 4 month hot and cold whirlwind (largely digital) with BCF from my workplace. It started out intensely passionate and exciting through emails and texts and passing glances. He chased me so hard and confidently and there was lots to like about him. Ohh I was crazy about him! Crazy crazy butterflies couldn’t stop thinking about him. He seemed to be too, he said he was. And then I noticed that we didn’t seem to be any closer to a real date. We shared a few secret kisses (unbelievable ones), but he wasn’t asking for any real time together. He would promise it over and over but not actually ask. He was coming off of a divorce, moving, and going through transition at work and I used those things as excuses for a while but it started to feel painful and I felt those yucky feelings of worry and self doubt. Things weren’t moving forward and it felt bad more often than good. So I leaned in a little and just got real straight up with what I was looking for. It didn’t help, and after a few weeks more of waiting for what I needed I ended it (with mixed feelings), telling him specifically that I felt like a fish on a hook and I just didn’t like feeling that way and my preference was to be with someone as motivated to spend time with me as me with them or at least someone who could get really honest with me about why they weren’t able to, rather than promising and then pulling back.

    That was two months ago. Since then he continued to try and gently chip away at me, emails and texts. A short but friendly phone call. I was careful not to over respond/invest in this digital relationship, I leaned back hard but not coldly, I actually even told him that, and let him know that as long as we didn’t have time together, I would follow him cautiously and from a much safer distance. 2 weeks ago he texted and asked me not to think about it but just tell him really fast what I wanted for Valentine’s Day. I told him a kiss… An ewwy gooey romantic girl kiss that made me melt in his arms. He said okay! I tried not to read anything into it. On Tuesday he sent a text saying he was thinking about me and reminded me that Valentine’s Day was coming, he sent that with a big smile. Well, the week went on and nothing. Nothing on Valentine’s. Not even a text. I wouldn’t have expected anything if he hadn’t mentioned it twice. Fish on a hook again. Oh Sirens, Hard to reconcile the multiple truths coming up for me that Rori talks about. I sent him this email this morning, it’s about as honest as I’ve got:

    “I’m just a girl, maybe with some pleasantly jagged edges, but softness is still my base nature… I waited for your hinted-at sweet romantic Valentine’s kiss. I did.

    I tried not to think about your hands on my cheeks pulling me closer to your face. I tried so hard not to get too excited or even hope for it at all! And then you actually reminded me of Valentine’s Day and oh BCF! Your kisses make me feel so melty and the more I tried not to spend the day breathing in the thought of the taste of your lips or an invitation or just a note or a small text or or or… well, I’m just a girl. I couldn’t help myself.

    Feels kinda dreamy now and sad in my heart all at the same time.

    Sweet BCF, if you ever actually do feel like a coffee, a visit, a real cuddle… send me a message. I’m right here and I would love that.

    Until then, it feels better to turn myself away from your footsteps all together, safely distant as I may already be. Would you be willing to gift me lots of space so I can do that this time? Does that make sense?

  277.  #277lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 1:04 pm


    i feel you have done a splendid job…a very sireny job….you took it as far as you could/can….

    you have been clear with him….with yourself

    and yourself of course is the most powerfull

    now comes even the harder part…dis-engaging from a man who apparently is un-availble …..
    it is so addictive….UNAVAILABILITY…its like heroin or cocaine or sugar….alittle goes along way and all it takes is a few doses…

    well thats my 2 cents posie….thank you so much for posting and being honest with your sharing….

    i feel like you will be affording yourself all the wisdom on the blog and sharing yours….we all help each other
    many blessings….

  278.  #278Mistea1 on February 15, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Posie 276,

    Oh my, what a great post. I congratulate you on your handling of this situation. It is similar to my own as far as the glances and secret meetings and the addiction, so massive.

    I didn’t even do the part of being available as I realized the toxicity of it all. The guy has been single for many years and knows what to do if he wants to. I completely withdrew and after 48 days it is still hard especially since I don’t listen to him play live music any more, so painful.

    Thanks for posting this as I learn something each time.

  279.  #279lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 1:42 pm


    i know….i feel you….

    and this too shall pass….i have so been there….and days when it creeps up again…but ohhh so much better now….

  280.  #280Posie on February 15, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Thanks for your comments LovetoDance and Mistea. It feels good to hear thoughts and feelings other than my own on this 🙂 He IS addictive! It hasn’t felt too difficult in the past to avoid reaching out to him, I generally always leave it to him to make contact and go about my life in the meantime. I don’t really know yet what I’ll do if he responds or comes my way again. He is a SWEET talker and he knows my soft spots. I feel really strongly about ignoring if it didn’t include an offer of some real face to face time. And if it did, well, I guess I’ll see what’s intuition tells me at that time. Sigh. Too bad! Lots of chemistry…. Imaginary connection. Hugs for my own heart today! 🙂

  281.  #281April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    I have a date!

    On Thursday.

    With a man.

    Go April!!!

    I feel delighted.

  282.  #282April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 2:06 pm


    I am going speed dating tomorrow.

    With a younger age group than the last time.

    No old men in cardigans this time!

  283.  #283April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Masculine men I realise can be very involved with practicalities and thoughts and opinions.

    This is so new to me.

    I have known so many ‘poets’, as Cherry Norris calls them – men who are creative and fun and mostly penniless.

  284.  #284April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    With masculine men, it is so easy to get drawn into discussions about projects and activities and practicalities.

    I can listen and listen as he talks about those things.

    When it is my turn to talk or I am asked a question, I really need to feel into myself and express the feminine.
    This is unfamiliar territory and I am a little of unsure of it.

  285.  #285Labbit on February 15, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    April Rose — TenderCD is very masculine in his conversation. He’ll talk a lot about projects at work or how his career has progressed and then share his stresses in terms of where he sees himself compared to coworkers or bosses or competitors.

    I have learned to concentrate on relaxing my mind, listening to him, dropping anything I might want to say while I’m listening, and then when an opening comes I’ll express support in a way that conveys ‘you know what you’re doing’ or ‘you’ve come so far’ or ‘you have what it takes.’ If he asks me for advice I will instead ask questions back to lead him to his own answers…if he wants my opinion I’ll give it as concisely as I can. Sometimes with feeling messages and sometimes not. Mostly I find he just wants someone to listen…it’s not necessary for me to try to fix anything or advise him. Once he’s said his peace I find he can feel me deeply in my body, and he drops down into his heart as well. Lots of times he’ll just kind of sigh happily, let it go with relief, take my hand and smile. It’s not necessary to try to pull him there — he’ll find his way naturally if you concentrate on making sure you’re there, not hanging out in your mind but instead relaxing into your body and feminine essence.

    Then for everyday stuff he will sometimes rattle off a list of everything he wants to get done. Even today when we woke up he was like “We’ll walk the dog, grab breakfast, then go grocery shopping, come back home and watch a movie or something and then make dinner.” In those cases I’ll usually affectionately tease a bit — “Which slot has fun in it? I want to make sure I’m there for that…” with a wink, that kind of thing.

  286.  #286Labbit on February 15, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    Lovergirl I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I second the recommendations to go see a doctor ASAP, a friend of mine who had a miscarriage ended up getting an infection from leftover detritus in her uterus…take the best care of yourself possible.

  287.  #287Labbit on February 15, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Had a lovely Valentine’s Day yesterday with TenderCD. I feel so warm and comfy and snuggly and tingly all over! Tender is so wonderful, he’d already sent me flowers earlier this week but when I got to his place yesterday he had a single rose for me and a bone with a pink bow attached for my dog. (For his two best girls, he said. My dog is a girl too!) Originally we’d planned to go out for a nice dinner but we realized that making dinner together would be much more romantic for us at this time. So we did that — went to a few local shops yesterday to pick up ingredients and then spent a nice evening prepping and cooking as a team. Watched Secretary and then cuddled for the night. Tomorrow we go over to our new place to meet with two architects. We’ll choose one of them and then work can begin on renovations!

    I feel so yummy right now.

  288.  #288Mistea1 on February 15, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Labbit 287,

    Gosh, I;m enjoying reading about your progress with Tender. Tee hee, I guess you could leave off the CD part of his designation now!

    You deserve all the yumminess you have. Wonderful.

  289.  #289April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    Thank you dear Labbit,

    That is soooo helpful.

    I love what you said about being in your body and feminine essence.

    That, I am sure, is going to feel a whole lot easier once we are together in person. On the phone call he did most of the talking and looking back, it seemed like he was keen to talk about all the things we talked about.

    It was just so strange for me to listen to a masculine man! Because he was ‘in his head’ I almost judged myself for not being able to take him ‘out of his head’. Do you know what I mean?

    What are the signs that your man has come towards you in his heart, and not so much in his head?

    I’m looking forward to discovering what that feels like.

  290.  #290April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 3:12 pm


    I just read that you watched Secretary with your man.

    How did it feel watching it with him? Did you get turned on at all? I find the last scene such a turn on, where he has her tied to a tree and is making love to her.

    I feel shy and strange and thrilled to imagine watching that with my lover. (Of course, I would prefer it to be actually happening with us!!)

  291.  #291April Rose on February 15, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Staying open.

    Being in my body.

    Allowing love and masculine energy and good things to come towards me…

  292.  #292Violette on February 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    A was amazing for V day. He surprised me with tickets to a Broadway show I’d mentioned I wanted to see, ages ago (assuming he wasn’t paying attention)! He also showed up with 2 dozen black roses, which smell heavenly, and took me to a nice dinner before, this was Fri. And we had a lazy morning the next day, he made made me breakfast. He had a box of Girardelli chocolates waiting for me and 2 V day cards 🙂 THEN he took me to Sephora for some beauty products for a gift. And he helped me buy some last ingredients for dinner I was making him that night. He bought wine and a delicious local made Bourbon and I cooked and we spent the evening in my apt making out while I cooked. It’s the first time I’ve cooked for a man in years, the first time I’ve wanted to, and it felt so nourishing to me to do it. I also made him a box of homemade soaps as a gift. I can’t even tell you how much fun that was.

    Look at me, I made a whole big post with out complaining about him once. That feels good to do.

    He really had me feeling like a princess this Valentines Day. What a treat.

  293.  #293Violette on February 15, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    I also want to say thank you to Beloved and Lovetodance for commenting on my last post about posting on the blog again, I appreciate the enouragement 🙂

  294.  #294Sophie on February 15, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    Thank Azure Blu and lovetodance – I have been reading along and cheering you on and getting a lot from your posts sometimes I’ve even replied then changed my mind! I don’t know, maybe I’ve been feeling introverted….and tired!…and then feeling like I haven’t got much to say and the other sirens are so good at saying and now with the timezones I have no idea when anyone is online! 🙂 xxx Have still been sending you all my love and support energetically. smiling, cheering, nodding my head … 🙂 xxx

  295.  #295lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    ohhhh sophie….adorable siren….

    i feel that way to many times….like i don’t have much to say and the other sirens are so good at saying….etc…

    and i want you to know i always appreciate your loving, wise and siren voice here…

    i imagine a weariness reading your last posts….it sounds to me like you have been in very trying situations and environments and i hear how you have been working hard to maintain integrity in all that you encountered..

    you are a strong siren and i wish for you rest, and rest assuredness of your beauty…i certainly see and feel it….

    big love to you sophie!
    travel cheerfully [which sounds like you do your best to] and safely….

  296.  #296Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    Viollet, Indigo & Labbit…
    Your Valentines dayz sound AMAZING…
    Being treated like the princesses you ARE…
    Sooo… inspirational
    I am looking forward to being treated with
    such Tender loving Care!!

    Thank you all for sharing…

  297.  #297lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    i am really observing my tendency to get anxious when not responded to….or not responded to when in the timing i think i should be responded to…

    noticing my tendency to want to make things happen…and i get kinda pushy….eckkk…or at least not very soft or willing to be led….years of learning to be stong and independent and have a voice…and not be bowled over….yet still inside feeling scared and insecure….

    just slowing down…observing my automatic reactions, thoughts…around my knee jerk fear of oh oh….this could be rejection, this could be abandonment , this could be shocking…or whatever….seeing my anxiety, strategies, how i get bored and find ways to make a problem….

    it almost feels like addiction to feelings of rejection…i know how weird that is….i know i have learned about how we repeat our trauma over and over in attempt to heal it…i just am experiencing and understanding that now so much stronger, clearer about the process…and going…oh my gosh….this has been going on with ME FOR so long….

    and seeing feeling alternate routes out of this self inflicted hell[o] [just in case that word makes for comment moderation]

  298.  #298lovetodance on February 15, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    291 april rose

    yeah yeah yeah….so simple so clear so lovely…
    i too want to adopt this….

    thank you

  299.  #299Femininewoman on February 15, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    Oh wow Posie. Beautiful poetry. The way he behaved that should have been one you wrote but not send. I don’t think he is worthy. Beautifully poetic for the one worthy of your heart.

  300.  #300Azure Blu on February 15, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    LTD #297
    Mmmmm… lovely Siren…
    this feels so powerful
    you are noticing and sharing with us
    Your feelings… so vulnerable and Authentic…
    I can see how Rori’s recommendations to CD
    leads us to our feelings, triggers..
    So then
    We can love and cherish AND
    Heal them…

    Today I have been sitting with
    a vERY loud and large feeling
    her name is Invisible
    She has told me
    She LOVES being invisible…
    I am am talking to her…
    getting angry with her…
    showing her warm and kind
    This may take awhile…
    I have thanked her for trying to
    keep ME SAFE…

  301.  #301Indigo on February 15, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    lovetodance 297,

    This: “ust slowing down…observing my automatic reactions, thoughts…around my knee jerk fear of oh oh….this could be rejection, this could be abandonment , this could be shocking…or whatever….seeing my anxiety, strategies, how i get bored and find ways to make a problem….

    it almost feels like addiction to feelings of rejection…i know how weird that is….i know i have learned about how we repeat our trauma over and over in attempt to heal it..”

    Yes. Me too. Realising that I find it hard to let love in. Grasping that there is a world beyond rejection and abandonment and pain – at times I can only dimly glimpse it, at other times I feel immersed in its glory and contentment. It is so hard not to hate this part of me that is scared of being rejected and left, this part of me that is afraid of being unimportant to someone, so it pipes up with this little girl voice and demands to be heard and paid attention to. It is hard to not hate this part of myself because I know it is a pattern I need to break. It is a pattern I so badly want to break. I know it is not real. I know I am greatly loved. And I know that the possibility of a relationship which is calm and relaxed, which is peaceful with no conflict, is real – and it is what I want. I don’t want to keep doing this to myself. Where I second-guess the love that is around me, because at one time I lived in a world that was full of pain and in some ways that pain is still inside me.

  302.  #302Indigo on February 15, 2015 at 10:38 pm

    I want to treat my beloved and my relationship tenderly, I don’t want to second-guess him or it. I don’t want to cause trouble or problems, I don’t want to be afraid, or always on the lookout for signs that I am being abandoned. This is SO scary for me – the idea of healing that part of me inside! I have always kind of glossed over it and put my mind “somewhere else” in order to survive. But now I WANT to heal it. I want to move forward into a world of love and peace and great joy, and I don’t mind admitting it, that feels SO scary.

  303.  #303Victoria on February 15, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Darling Sirens,
    My Valentine’s did not go like I thought it will. I thought he will call and organize something, like he always has done. I have been biting my tongue the whole of last week, did not mention anything, did not ask him what we will do. On Friday afternoon he called, and, instead of making plans for the Saturday, he told me his mother was sick (he was mentioning that the previous days too) and so he and his brother will be travelling to see her and would not come back before Sunday, and on Sunday he had to do a 12 hour day shift at work. I was very disappointed, but said, oh well, hope your mom gets better soon, and that was that.
    I was upset, but also tried not too make too much of it, I just hoped that somehow he will make it better for me, will give me a call, will come back sooner, or that, one way or another, our Valentines would not be totally lost. But then I also thought, no, he did not mention anything the whole week, he made zero plans for us, and that means something, it means no plans for us, and I do not want to sit around and wait for him. A bunch of friends were going on a skiiing trip, so I joined them for the weekend. On Valentines he did not call me at all. I left my phone at home while I was skiing, but no, there were no missed calls from him. Then, in the evening, I saw he had sent me an email, saying “Happy Lovers day” etc and writing how much he loves me blah blah blah. It all sounded so fake to me so fake. I took several hours to respond. I wanted to not respond at all, but at the end I wrote him back “There is no such a holiday as Lovers Day, and if there was, it would not be today, but only on one of those magical days when you and I spend time together.”
    I had a great time with my friends skiing and then having a nice dinner party in the evening. At the same time, my soul was crying inside me, that he did not do anything for us. I somehow thought with the intensification of our contacts and closeness that our relationship is growing, strenghtenin, and I was flying a little bit because of it. This episode, in which he chose to ignore the holiday and make no plans with me for that day, sends me back to earth. We talked on Sunday, mostly trivial stuff, none of us brought up Valentines day… He asked me to see me today and I said yes… So, nothing changed, one way or another. I was probably hoping for some sort of catalisys, because of Valentine’s day… And, it did not work like that, quite on the contrary. But life goes on, either way.

  304.  #304Tee on February 15, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    Well Dear Sirens, I feel weird
    Everything I ever said wanted is happening.
    “Finally” got the ring yet I’m not as happy as I thought I would be.

    I don’t think it’s an issue of Mr. Man, sure he’s a wild card but I’m pretty sure if he straightened up and flew right (instead of all over the place)….I’d still feel weird.

    The ring is gorgeous and he was more than happy to get it for me. Yes I did sorta ask. Actually, he kept fishing for answers as to if I’d be open to a ring? Got tired of that game so I flat out asked where was my ring. This was after he kept trying to buy me a new phone, an ipad, etc

    I felt dumb for putting it out there but he was acting way too clueless. His response was, I would have gotten a ring ages ago had I said something. I tried to be practical, told him he could even go to Walmart.

    He was horrified. ….Walmart?!
    I said nevermind, just surprise me.

    Not exactly romantic but I feel like we’re both being retrained.

    Anyways back to feeling weird.

    Everything that I thought would make me happy, just isn’t anymore. I feel like he’s happier about it than I am. He’s so proud of himself and couldn’t wait to show off.

    I’m stuck wondering when will happiness show up.

    Still trying to work through this

  305.  #305Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 2:11 am


    I was having a conversation with my mom on Saturday – because I experienced something similar to you – and I have no idea if it applies to your situation, so take it if it feels relevant, and leave it if it does not, but the change in perspective helped me.

    My mom’s opinion is that many men hate Valentine’s Day – the pressure, the expectations, the false sentimentality. If you have a loving relationship every day, why should this one day make a difference to how we feel? She herself hates Valentine’s Day, does not even remember it. She grew up with a mom (my grandmother) who used to make a mountain out of special occasions, and went overboard with them, and my mom developed a bit of a horror of all of that – the way it was done felt manipulative and like buying her love. Now, *I* don’t see special occasions like that, but it made me realise that not everyone sees them the same. Some people love them, for some people they are nice but not a huge deal, and some people dislike them and hate to make a fuss. They prefer to show their love in other ways. Now, I could see that D clearly falls into the latter category. When I think of all the little everyday things he does for me, it adds up to something immense – but it tends to fall into the category of “making my life easier” – so in some ways it is easier for me to overlook. I realised I don’t want to take him for granted for the sake of something like Valentine’s Day. But that was a result of me taking a long hard look at the man I have in front of me – who he REALLY is, not who I want him to be.

    Do you think you could accept your man exactly as he is? Do you want this man, this relationship? Because I think there is a certain point that a man lets his guard down and shows us who he really is. I think sometimes it looks like less effort to us, but I think often it is just him expressing his love in the way that FEELS best to him.

  306.  #306Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 2:16 am

    That is to say – yes, I understand you feeling disappointed on Valentine’s Day, boy do I, but look at what he did do – a beautiful email wishing you, and declaring his love for you, a phone call on Sunday, wanting to see you on Monday. Him wanting to take care of his mother shows he is a good man… I know it was not quite the romance you were hoping for, but this is all really rather huge.

  307.  #307Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 2:32 am

    Indigo #306
    Mmmm… I agree with what you are saying here…
    His Mom is sick… it is stressful to deal with that…
    Yes Victoria’s man is stepping up and showing MUCH love and thoughtfulness…
    Sometimes we need to strap on those ::Rose Colored Glasses::
    Open our hearts to what the Man IS
    letting go of expectations///
    a Rori rule I do believe…
    I’m speaking to ME hear too…

    I think many times I start picking on my man
    when emotional intimacy is Feeling
    OVERWHELming to me

  308.  #308Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 2:36 am

    Congratulations on your engagement…
    How romantic… on valentines day!

    I am feeling a bit confused as to why
    you aren’t happy about this wonderful occasion?

    Interesting that you are observing your feelings
    the ring is NOT making you as happy as you thought…
    It is good that you are looking closely at your feelings.
    and asking why…

  309.  #309Victoria on February 16, 2015 at 3:25 am

    Indigo and Azure,
    thank you both so much for the empathy. I know that reframing works, and as a matter of fact I am no longer very disappointed, and this community, and Rori’s teaching have helped me a lot. But I need to vent a bit.
    I simply can not believe he could not pick up the phone on Saturday and talk to me for 5 minutes. That is something I will never understand… At one point of time I started wondering – could it be that he is with another woman on this day, and the story with the sick mother is just a lie? Yes, I did have a really bad bout of NVs.
    I have no final answer to the question about can I accept this man exactly as he is. There are days I can, and there are days when I can’t.
    Indigo, I hope you can understand me on this one. I think I deserve it all. I think I deserve a man who would be so crazy about me, that he would want to give me a surpise trip to Paris on Valentine’s, or arrange for us to have champagne in an out-door hot tub on Valentine’s, or do something else dramatic and memorable. I could do these things for him, except that I would not because that would be terrible overfunctioning, but I would, if I was a man, or if I knew it would not emasculate him. This is the meaning of holidays, doing something SPECIAL, doing something MORE. Saying that if he expresses love on a regular basis should be enough is like saying to an employee that he does not deserve vacation because he has not been overworked.
    I want a man who would want to do special things for me occasionally… on a day of his choice, not necessarily Valentines… I want romance, I am not ready to settle for ordinarity forever, just not yet. I am a bit apprehensive for our date today… lets see.

  310.  #310Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 3:37 am


    I do 100% and completely understand what you are saying. And OF COURSE you should not settle for ordinariness forever.

    It is funny you mention the trip to Paris, because Dominique recently came on here to tell us that she had decided to let go of expectations around special occasions like Valentine’s, Christmas etc. and her husband surprised her with a 2 week trip to Paris.

    I am not saying you should accept it or you should not… just that some men are different from others. I was married to a man, and I have known many men, who were HUGE romantics, who loved the big gestures on Valentine’s Day, and I was not happy with them. So it made me question and think.

  311.  #311Femininewoman on February 16, 2015 at 3:53 am

    Victoria I personally know many men who hate the commercialization of Valentines Day and hence hate the day. I also feel your angst around not at least getting a call and imagine that my own mind would go in places where yours went. I encourage you though to work on your anger then find a soft place inside you to come from and express to him how you felt. Make it about you and let him know that days like that feel important to you. Maybe even include that it felt like a monkey was in your head chattering away about the things he might be doing on that day instead of being with you. Let him know you found a way to enjoy yourself and will obviously need to find a way to work out your emotions about what did not happen so moving forward you can really let go of expectations but right now you just want to let him know what is weighing heavily on your heart,

    Was it you who said you are pregnant with his baby? That alone is enough reason to believe that he knows you love him and that your feelings would be hurt a bit.

  312.  #312Victoria on February 16, 2015 at 3:55 am

    Yes, I have read Dominique’s site, and she has a lovely take on expectations, and letting go of them etc.
    And it is not even about Paris, or any other place, or any other particular event, of the “ring” whichever way we choose to define it. It is about romance, and feeling cherished, and I do not feel cherished when my man would not call me to hear my voice on Valentine’s, I feel perplexed and somewhat starved.
    I am wondering should I bring it up at all that I was hoping for some sort of celebration beyond the lame email. Probably not. And yes, I am pretty sure he thinks of himself as a hero for taking care of his mom and I should give applause and express concern for her (which I do not have).
    Mind you, I have been giving myself what I wanted – fun, skiing, a good time for Valentine’s. But this does not change the fact that I am missing something from him.

  313.  #313Victoria on February 16, 2015 at 4:05 am

    Thanks a lot, you kind of answered my question of should I tell him… I need to be very careful about choosing my words if I do though.
    I am not pregnant with his baby, you are thinking about someone else, now that would be quite a reason for a man to know that I love him :-).
    You know, I am hoping that some day I could be really surpised by him, or by another wonderful man…
    I want to receive something wonderful and romantic, without having to ask for it, or to hint, or to negotiate to get it.
    I can relate to what Tee was writing about above – once you have to say you want the ring, it is no longer the way it is meant to be according to our romantic dreams.

  314.  #314Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 4:43 am

    I too will chime in and say…
    You… We… deserve it all…
    I was just going thru my Evan Katz emails
    and he too believes that we deserve it all!!
    and If we Aren’t getting what we want…
    we need to move on (

    Like FW— I think it would be important NOT to stuff your feelings, Victoria.
    and Yes, with FM, let him know what you were hoping for… or what the days means to you… or….

    a couple of months ago…
    I remember thinking Spirit had invited me to his house one evening… and I was SOOOO
    disappointed when I realized
    that wasn’t what he meant…
    We were sitting in the car after the bar closed and I was able to say that I felt so excited because i thought he invited me over…
    and I felt dissapointed.
    He apologized but “no, he hadn’t invited me.”

  315.  #315Mistea1 on February 16, 2015 at 5:16 am

    I tend to agree with Indigo’s Mom’s viewpoint.
    In my opinion why should we all jump on some train that was started to make a lot of money for card and flower venders. It is complete commercialism.

    Plus there is the long lines and expense for the dinners and trips. There is the pressure on both male and female; will he give her the ring, will she accept the ring, blah, blah,blah.

    Having said that I was pleased to actually get an e-card Valentine, so I have two minds myself having been brought up in the culture to expect this.

    Rori mentioned that men don’t play games. maybe some of this is a reaction to the fact they are expected to play the game at this time.

    What happened to accepting the man as he is not as you demand (boy energy).

    What about accepting romance and feeling cherished by his way, in his time and knowing him well enough to know what his way is. Just saying.

  316.  #316Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 5:48 am

    Thank you lovetodance I feel welcomed, cherished and understood. I too, enjoy reading your contributions. I don’t even want to read back what I wrote (ha ha) but I acknowledge it probably did sound weary. Today I feel much happier – a ten degree drop in temperature and I managed to work a full day and was really productive. I feel happy about that 🙂 I wanted to find some balance when I came here – when things have felt like a continuation of struggles that don’t seem to end I feel disappointed and even distraught (!) – simultaneously I recognize all that’s beautiful and new and expansion about my experience and feel lucky and grateful. It feels okay to feel a bit introverted around men – I practice openness anyway (or at least watch when I shut down)-

    Problem with self-love being higher than romantic love is sometimes I would like a hug 🙂

    Azure Blu – I see so much progress in you – it feels wonderful to see you so rooting for yourself. I love your conversation with invisible. It resonated with what I’d been feeling – invisible, but I’ve kind of wanted to be invisible/blend into the background/observant invisible. There have been several nights where I have gone to sleep loving myself for all the things I feel bad about – and it’s helped me sleep, even laugh at myself and that was your influence Azure Blu 🙂 It has helped me so thank you xxx

  317.  #317Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Mistea1 315,

    I like what you’ve said here.

    You see the thing is, last year on Valentine’s Day I had a guy who made a massive effort – huge bunch of flowers, the biggest box of chocolates I have ever seen, a special outdoor movie screening and dinner, and I have had this kind of thing before – all the things which should have felt so special, and it didn’t. Because I didn’t love him. It made me realize that I would rather be doing something totally ordinary with someone I deeply loved, than being spoilt by someone I didn’t want. So was it really about Valentine’s Day, and all the fluffy things that come with it, at all? Now, I know the two are not mutually exclusive – that is, you can also have all the romantic Valentine’s things AND with someone you really love – but if I HAD to choose – and let’s face it, many times in life we have to choose, we don’t always get all that we want all at one time – I would choose, the person that I loved, the man, hands down. I would choose a good man whom I loved every time. Of course no one wants to live their life without specialness and I don’t either – but when I look at it, specialness is there in abundance. Not in the specific gestures on the specific day, but in many other things. And I cannot deny that I LOVE these subtle displays of love and loyalty. I think it’s normal to want it “all” but I think sometimes you don’t always have that option because of who you fall in love with – you have to choose, is this relationship important enough to you, do you want this man. Or do you want someone else who might give you “all” but who you may not love as much?

  318.  #318Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 6:55 am

    * who might not give you

  319.  #319Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 7:30 am

    Sophie #316
    Ohhh… thank you… It makes my heart sing…
    to hear of my influence for humor!!! ;–>

    Also sooooo good to hear you see progress in me.YES…
    cheering me on…
    Yes… invisible… we tussled and hugged
    tussled and hugged, most of the night…

    I thought I was ok with breaking with Spirit…
    BUT seeing him on Fri… dancing with all the other ladies and leaving without me…
    was too much…
    I’ve decided I need to avoid going to that place on Fri. until my heart is more in the clear…
    Ahhh no sleep for the yearning and missing…
    I know I have stood up for ME and said NO more…
    but he had come soo far forward…
    and yet it still was off balance.
    Thank you Sirens for your support.

  320.  #320Tee on February 16, 2015 at 7:33 am

    #308 Azure Blue, thank you!
    I’m still too much in my head with this.
    I imagined that once I had everything I wanted, then I’d be over the moon happy.

    Like fireworks, unicorns and glitter happy.
    That I’d finally feel complete and whole within myself, adored. I don’t know. Maybe like how I imagine a Pop star would feel when they first walk out on stage.

    Yet I still feel like I’m an outsider looking in.
    Mr. Man is just getting better and better. He knows I love Dunkin Donuts coffee so he went out in like 15 degree weather to get me 2 french vanilla coffees this morning !

    He’s been so awesome lately and better still, he’s enjoying it. All I had to do was lean back.

    However, in my leaning back. I feel fidgety.
    Maybe I’m afraid he’ll regress?
    I know that happiness is an inside job but I’m bad at this job.

    It’s not clicking for me lol I can’t seem to stay in my heart with this. Man this isn’t easy at all!

  321.  #321Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Azure Blu – I feel so much respect for you whatever the next phase with Spirit may be. It feels so painful and disappointing and rage against the injustice (for me) when I get so near yet it’s still not right. And painful letting go of something which gives us pleasure (in the moment) and which causes missing and yearning for the hope of the ideal and to stand by our desire to love and honour ourselves. Yet we deserve the ideal and to know that (or even act as if we know that until we really do know that) is so brave and so much better than always settling, or struggling, or feeling frustrated. I’m sure it MUST open doors too – create space for the right man to come in. I am waiting with anticipation for that for you and how delicious the experience will be…

    Yes, it became humourous. I was like ‘yay I’ve had to ask my mum for money for about the hundreth time, yay I’m a five year old in a 36 year old’s body, yay I’m surrounded by partying drinkers when all I wanted was some work life balance, yay i’m in the most beautiful surroundings feeling totally miserable, yay I’ve not slept properly for days, yay I’m really resenting the author of Eat Pray Love for her neat and tidy transformational experience, yay I spilt candle wax all over someone else’s mattress and I have no iron to get it out, yay the hairdryer blue up in an attempt to use it instead of an iron, yay they froze my paypal account, yay they blocked my debit card for 24 hours, yay the microphone on my computer broke so I couldn’t skype anyone, yay I bashed my head in an undignified clambering out of a Tuk Tuk yay yay yay yay yay I love me – I was laughing at my falling flat on my faceness and how far away from my set agnda my current experience had become- I am laughing now. It has been a wonderful (if challenging) experience none the less

  322.  #322Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 7:54 am

    Mistea, Indigo, Victoria et al

    I have had many different valentine experiences too and I wonder how much the context has to do with how we feel. At least for me, context probably has a lot.

    I had a boyfriend who showered me with roses, perfume and chocolates and it was the sweetest thing anyone had ever done for me. I felt delicious. The next couple of years he gave me nice cards, maybe little gestures I can’t remember, but I didn’t feel upset, I felt appreciation because I knew that he loved me.

    When I have been upset is when I’ve been looking for validation or assurance and I havent ‘in my eyes’ got it. Two boyfriends ago things were rocky anyway, and I felt absolutely enraged that he hadn’t bought me a card. I felt so enraged I missed what he had bought me which were really thought out and personal gifts (grabbed from the supermarket yes but with meaning I’d missed). I feel really bad that I didn’t see it at the time, but I also think I would have seen it had there not been existing tension and insecurity (between us and on my part).

  323.  #323Lovetodance on February 16, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Indigo 301/302
    Yes yes yes

    This is deep and powerful work and healing

    Thank you for your insights and vulnerability

    I imagine all of this is part of the human condition and that possibly some cultures that are more intact tribally have less of these traumas……

    I see it as a personal issue that can be healed tremendously and also something we mortals are dealing with. Separation from the source I imagine

    So that was from my head I feel it’s true and there still is the hurt/fear to love love love within so that when its powerful inner experience hammers down on me I can greet it with compassion and tenderness and slot more optimism

  324.  #324Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 8:09 am

    Sophie!!! OOOOHHH… you nailed
    and you have me crying… it is sooo true..
    Thank you… again… Lovely Siren…

    All this support and YOU are in the middle of many crises!
    AND you found humor… wow you are Rockin it!!
    I love this!!…
    “I’m really resenting the author of Eat Pray Love for her neat and tidy transformational experience,”
    Ahhh yes, the hollywood version of LIFE!!

    Wow… so much going on in your life… you are Still
    soooo very young… I continue to relly on my parents off and on for support.. being single is financially a challenge sometimes!
    It is SUCH an Excellent time to do this Adventure…
    I am living vicariously through you…
    Please don’t stop sharing this amazing journey…

  325.  #325Lovetodance on February 16, 2015 at 8:15 am

    I have my first cd date today (since working commitedly with rori’s tools )
    I had lots of rejection anger yearning dreams last nite

    My psyche is triggered

    And I feel strangely calm at the same time.

    I know this is a sweet man. I don’t know if the chemistry will be there in person for both of us

    I just want to be open authentic soft and sassy (just can’t seem to help that part)

    And not wrapped up in fear…. Fear of hurting someone or myself being hurt

    I want to be a soft strong savvy sexy siren who can take of my feelings and and know that he can take care of his

  326.  #326Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Ahhhhh thank you Azure Blu – perhaps it could have helped me to share some more of my experiences. It is hardcore being surrounded by so many identities all the time and trying to stay the line of mine. I have been frenzied with the NV’s – especially around things like having to ask for money – I’ve been feeling like a big old failure and a nothing ever goes right for me-er – it feels nice to know it’s not just me (though I wouldn’t wish it on anyone). And, isn’t it hard when our only references are in books where everything seems so simple (and hence I feel inadequate and like I must be missing some vital clue! Or in other people who seem to have it all together, or at least seem to be having way more ease and flow and fun than me ha ha so that I feel like a strange alien – there’s a Bob Dylan line I absolutely love that says “doesn’t anyone here now where I’m at?!” I’ve felt like that a lot the last few weeks. I’m sorry I made you cry! 🙂 I feel so happy you could connect with what I said 🙂

    Lovetodance – ohhhh I hope your date is a wonderful experience for you. After cd’ing for a while I learnt to take some of the pressure out of it and keep it in the moment and curious. I didn’t need to question too much at first – just see how I felt with him – or not even that, just went with the intention of having fun (and being treated like a prize). I love observing men with all the Rori knowledge ‘cos she’s so spot on with their behaviours. I am still in the baby stages of tweaking mine. Their are men here at the beach who offer me things and my default position was always to say no. Now, whether I want it or not (to borrow a beach mat, to have a drink, to be shown where the book shop is, to have my computer fixed) I always say yes ‘cos I love the way that by accepting their gifts they open up (and sometimes go all proud and puffy chested). I went off tangent there 🙂 I hope he spoils you and I hope you enjoy it xxx

  327.  #327Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 8:40 am

    LTD – and I hope I didn’t detract there from your very valid and vulnerable sharing of feelings xxx

  328.  #328Sophie on February 16, 2015 at 8:42 am

    326 the line is ‘know where I’m at’ not now – grrrr typos

  329.  #329Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 8:43 am

    LTD!!! Yay!!!
    Ohhh… yes… lovely, warm, sexy & sassy, beautiful Siren,
    Have sooo much fun today
    with your CD!

  330.  #330Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 8:48 am

    I sooo agree with Sophie’s take on cding…

    VERY important to remember…
    this is just ONE date in a series of MANY…
    As Rori recommends… they are our practice,
    our FREE therapy…
    Sophie says:”After cd’ing for a while I learnt to take some of the pressure out of it and keep it in the moment and curious. ”
    What color are his eyes.
    What color is his shirt
    Does he smile much…
    Do I feel at ease
    Does he help me relax
    AND have fun… I do know how stressful
    the first dates are…
    Indigo had a wonderful list of things to do before the date…
    Does anyone remember?

  331.  #331Beloved on February 16, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Ohhh, sirens…
    An OKC guy had made plans with me for Sunday. Didn’t firm up by Friday, so I made other plans.
    This morning, he sent me a message, “Good morning, how are you this morning?”
    My mouth dropped open. What? What the wha?
    A lot of responses swirled through my mind.
    First was to not bother to respond.
    Then a lot of clever, biting responses mixed in with feeling messages.
    I sat with all of those feelings and told the truth – I feel perplexed and baffled.
    He asked why, and I told him, because I don’t understand why someone would make plans with me, not follow through, and then message me after without an apology or acknowledgment. It feels like crazymaking. I don’t want to feel this way.

    I decided not to ask him what he thought or how to fix it, because…over the weekend I had decided to no longer pursue poly relationships and he is poly. After 14 years of a poly mindset, I feel done for now.
    What feels so..uncomfortable and has me posting, is feeling so “soft” and powerless. I wanted to say, “You have got to be kidding!” “You must be out of your mind!” “You must be crazy!”.
    I so wanted to feel like getting my power through giving him a kiss off message.
    Deep down, I feel like I did want an explanation that would make me feel better, but he didn’t respond.
    So I feel left with feelings of ick.
    Feelings of powerlessness.
    Feelings of soft…mushy soft scary mushy soft.
    Totally vulnerable, yes, like I extended myself and feel all exposed and am just hanging there,
    feeling rejected.
    Feeling….something in my gut and heart that was stagnant getting stirred up.
    I feel the need to breathe into the clenching, hold it, be gentle with it
    and like magic, I feel light spreading up through my heart, my left eye feels a little teary,
    I feel pressure sensation in my heart.
    I feel a smile spread, a few giggles escape.
    More heaviness and pressure on my heart.
    Breathing…breathing…holding so gentle…
    yawning…and smiling..something is releasing.
    More yawning.
    What is the message from this guy?
    Move on. Be happy. 😀

  332.  #332Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Violette – 292 – This feels so beautiful to read. I feel in awe of your blossoming since I first “met” you. So very lovely.

    Love to you.


  333.  #333Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:20 am

    lovetodance- 297 – I can SO feel you in this, the feelings of anxiety around possible rejection, abandonment. Your feelings are common to many women I’ve worked with, myself included, those of the more sensitive leanings. Yet you recognize this in yourself, and with this awareness, you can heal this in you. It may not go away entirely, yet you will be able to maneuver through the feelings more easily, more readily which you are already. 🙂

    Love to you.


  334.  #334Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Indigo – 301 – Can you try to love and embrace this part of you which wants to hate the part of you which feels addicted to rejection and abandonment – or rather fears it, feels terrified of this possibility? I have found that these feelings tend to linger, reappear when feeling most shaky, yet they want to be loved to, as much as you. They don’t want to be pushed away anymore than you, for they are a part of you. So they too are beautiful in their sometimes over zealous, over bearing ways.

    Much love to you. 🙂


  335.  #335Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Victoria – 303 – I don’t know if this will help, yet maybe it will. Your story reminds me so much of one of mine around Valentine’s Day in our early days together.



  336.  #336Labbit on February 16, 2015 at 9:44 am

    331 Beloved — I have been in your shoes so many times! Last fall when I was super CD’ing — seeing one or sometimes two guys a day, three or more times a week — while Tender was figuring out what he wanted with me and I was so not waiting for him, this would happen to me A LOT where men would ask me out on a certain day and then either disappear without firming up plans.

    I get the feelings of ick…I used to feel them too. And it’s totally cool to have them. I just want to point out that often for me those feelings felt like a personal rejection. ‘Why didn’t he want to see ME?’ ‘Why did he reject ME?’ ‘What did I do wrong?’ Etc. But as it happened more and more I realized that some men are just super flaky with online dating these days. As I was making my way up the quality chain of men there were more than a few men who ‘just forgot’ they’d set up dates with me.

    I realized it was about them, not me. Had nothing to do with me at all. So in a short amount of time it became like water off a duck’s back and I started thanking those men (to myself) for saving me the time of discovering they were flakes later on down the road. Thanks to them for showing me who they were so early on instead of months into an imaginary relationship. I saw it as progress!

    This is simply one stop for you on the path to forever after. Nothing more, nothing less. Do what you need to so that you feel comforted and know that you are just as much a Siren today as you were last Thursday. 🙂

  337.  #337Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Tee – 304 – Maybe it can be as simple as choosing happiness.



  338.  #338Posie on February 16, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Thank you femininewoman for your compliment on my prose, gave me a big smile this morning! I suppose I just wanted to draw my own line in the sand by sending it to him and be honest with myself at the same time (tricky!) It felt like hiding either the sad or the desire from either of us would just not be me. And I just know that had I not written he would have sent something gushingly gorgeous in a few days and I might not have felt the same strength as I did yesterday or do today. I don’t want to feel that way again with him, i.e. Hooked. I am so drawn to him AND there’s nothing there for me right now. Big message learned from here.

    It is so incredibly powerful and supportive to read through all your stories and perspectives. I am very grateful you are all here and sharing. It has made a huge difference to me. I feel much more self aware because of it. And much more… Capable. Thank you

  339.  #339Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Here’s another relevant article which may help too.



  340.  #340Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:46 am

  341.  #341Labbit on February 16, 2015 at 9:49 am

    289 April Rose — Hmm, the signs that a masculine man has come towards you in his heart? Great question. I guess for me it feels like this little bundle of energy that I can feel rushing towards me, flooding me with good steamy and yet peaceful feelings. A sense of calm and harmony. A still quiet in my mind, a little bit of feeling like time is standing still.

    290 — Yes it was a very romantic experience watching Secretary with TenderCD! I will leave it at that. 🙂

  342.  #342Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Victoria – 309 – What I have also found is that the more you can let all of this go, the more you are able to love and accept him exactly as he is even if nothing every changed, the more likely it will be that he will start to do these things for you which you dream of. And it will feel all the more special because you weren’t looking for them anymore, because they will be a total and utterly wonderful surprise.


  343.  #343Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 9:58 am

    And maybe there is something fundamental missing for this relationship Victoria. If you’re continuing to work on you, heal you, and still you feel a lack, a missing of something, then it’s possible he’s not the man for you.

    Yet it’s also possible that he’s doing the very best he can with whatever meager tools he possesses.

    Have you tried encouraging the things he does do which you love? For example when he does call and make you feel special if only a little, can you say to him – It feels so good hearing your voice. I feel so special/adored/loved/taken care of. – Or something like this. You can try doing this with anything and everything he does which you DO love.

    Things may not shift right away, yet they may. If he’s the man for you, he wants to make you feel good, happy, He may just not really know how. And one of the best ways is to encourage what feels good and let go of what feels bad unless it’s something totally awful.


  344.  #344Gemini Goddess on February 16, 2015 at 10:09 am

    Well, I suffered from a severe case of “expectation-itis” on Valentines Day, about which I’m not proud.

    With all D does for me on a regular bases, I was really dying to see what he would pull out for our first Valentine’s Day. I knew he wasn’t into a standard dinner, so my curiosity and anticipation were rampant.

    The answer is…a card. He did mail it in advance (to make it extra special). It said he was so glad I’m his valentine, and had a count down to a really nice trip he planned for us last month coming up in May (No doubting his intention to be with me, and it is a helluva nice vacation), but I cannot (and could not) pretend I wasn’t super let down. I almost feel ashamed about it now, but that’s how I felt…a LOT.

    I did not feel like “feeling messaging” him so basically blamed my lack of conversation on exhaustion from our bike ride. We decided to get shrimp and fancy desserts from the gourmet grocery store and watch a movie which is a very nice way to spend the evening, but I was bummed he didn’t have this planned either.

    Glad to have read Dominique’s articles about expectation, and for the posts about Indigo’s Christmas gift situation. I put myself to bed early to just avoid having to deal with it. Not my most sireny, but maybe not bad given my crummy feelings, as way better than it would have been 6 months ago.

    Next day, breakfast in bed, stunning bike ride to the city with ferry ride back, and Thai messages to two. I’ll certainly survive.

  345.  #345Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Dominique 334,

    As I read your post, I called forth that little girl part of me and tried to show her some love. It’s hard, because she has a tendency to ruin the moment when I’m doing so well with being sireny! But, it is a wounded part of myself, and hence must be brought to the surface and loved. I will try to comfort and reassure her.

    Thank you – and again, thank you for your reminder in # 342 about letting go of these things and loving and accepting him just as he is. I appreciate this message xx

  346.  #346Mistea1 on February 16, 2015 at 11:14 am

    Dominique 339 et.al.,

    I read your Descent into Darkness with much interest. I am doing all of that with the exception of the last part.

    It’s been 49 days now without seeing him. He has had 4 major recitals in that time where he usually has one.
    I think he is doing that because some are expecting him to retire quietly into the shadows and he won’t allow it.

    I miss hearing the beauty of his music and I won’t go there because of the other emotions expressed as well as a number of other things.

    As i read your account I realized that this visual of us surrounded by the beauty you described will be very healing to me. Thank you for that post.

  347.  #347IamHis on February 16, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    I feel scared and curious to write about this.

    Last weekend, I felt fear around Foreign Guy again. It felt like an old, familiar feeling, but also a very uncommon one.

    I enjoyed listening to him last weekend. Oh, I enjoyed it. He is beautiful and fascinating to me. He is strong, tender, affectionate, but also nervous and cautious.

    I love all his layers. There’s something so young and playful about him, but also serious, intense, & somewhat guarded.

    I was aching for his touch last weekend. His touches make me feel so safe, cherished, & precious.

    I let myself feel it all. The fear, the suspicion, the anger. I leaned back and let myself feel every uncomfortable feeling.

    He ended up chasing me into the back of our mutual friend’s car. We were crammed in there. He put his head on my shoulder, and my hand just kind of patted his head. He took advantage of the zero space between us and was just touching me in the sweetest ways. He makes me feel like such a precious thing, it seriously makes me cry. He pulled out his phone and put his arm around me and told me to put my number in, which I gladly did.

    I don’t know what took him so long!

    As he was getting out of the car he kissed the top of my head about three times and I just melted.

    A week went by and I didn’t hear anything from him.

    When I saw him over the weekend, he said I seemed tired ( I was that day.)

    He didn’t pay much attention to me, probably because I was so out of it, but I was sitting there craving his touch again.

    Later that night, we were alone in the car with just us two and one of my guy friends who is bilingual. & Foreign Guy had a lot to say again and I listened again. It was all in his own language, and our friend helped to translate. I only understood about 45% on my own.

    He asked so much about my family and my beliefs and talked about his own.

    Foreign Guy always kisses me goodbye in his cultural platonic way.

    When we were saying goodbye this time I leaned forward? and I was the one who kissed him, for once. It felt extremely tender to me, I wasn’t thinking at all, I just leaned towards him and my lips barely touched his checked…I just wanted to feel him and smell him and be close to him.

    I like him and that feels scary. I worry that I’m reading too much into things. When I’m talking to anyone else, male or female, he watches me. It feels intense. I don’t know why.

    I don’t know what to do or think.

    I feel nervous and curious and…I honestly just want more of him. I want to get to know him better and more.

    I don’t even know why I wrote all this. I guess I feel a little confused and unsure…

  348.  #348IamHis on February 16, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Questions like how much of this is cultural? Why does he watch me, touch me the way he does, talk about how beautiful I am?

    Why was he so slow about getting my number and why doesn’t he use it now that he has it?

    Is he just flirtatious? What does he want from me?

    He does treat me differently than other girls, but the language barrier is extremely frustrating.

    Other guys are around, but I like him.

    What’s going on with me? I feel good in my life right now. Things are settling. I feel safe and confident and then there’s him…

    Don’t focus on him!

    But I like that he’s in the background.

    It makes me feel both safe and scared…

  349.  #349Tee on February 16, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    #339/#340, Dominique. …thank you!
    You make it all seem so effortless 🙂

  350.  #350Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    Mistea- 346 – Thank you so much for this. It was a difficult piece to write, yet I felt it was important to get it out.

    Love to you.


  351.  #351Dominique on February 16, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Tee – 349 – Ah yes, well, not necessarily so effortless. I think it feels challenging to most everyone. 🙂

    Oh yes, and you are so welcome.

    Love to you.


  352.  #352RileyTheOwl on February 16, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Hi ladies 🙂
    So C’s birthday is this week,
    and throughout our history I’ve been bad with the whole “giving” thing when it comes to gifts.
    Like when I first started Rori Raye, I kind of misunderstood what lean back meant, and I never got him anything at all 😛 kinda silly looking back on it, oh well 🙂 I understand now that I WANT to show my affection and give BACK to him,
    I want to get him something small yet meaningful.
    Tomorrow night his family has invited me to come out for his birthday dinner with them, and I feel happy to be so welcomed by his family and glad that we’ll be doing that.

    I asked his sister about what she thinks he’d like, she said he loves music and listed some of the albums that he likes.
    So I’ll probably buy him one of thsoe albums. I’ll make a card…

    but I feel uncertain, I want to get a very sireny and affectionate gift, yet I have no idea what I should do… how do I show him I love him without leaning forward?
    Can you sirens please help me understand this? Thank you:)

  353.  #353Lovergirl on February 16, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    Im feeling annoyed that my laptop is still in the shop! Its been almost 2 weeks and I am frustrated because there are posts I would like to comment on but I lose them on my phone and cant see the numbers on here. :p

    Im also feeling upset and a little hurt that I haven’t heard from my guy today. Everything seemed to be going well and he called me last night to check on me. During that conversation he mentioned that he was taking the day off today. I assumed he would probably want to hang out, since he was telling me beforehand.

    Well, nope. Its almost 8 pm and I havent heard a peep from him all day. 🙁 I feel confused that he would tell me hey, I am taking the day off tomorrow, then not call.

    Now I feel worried. Did he choose to spend the day with another woman? Are things not going as well as I thought? He seemed to be wanting to get closer to me and now he disappears? Im feeling anxious and scared. Maybe hes just doing that rubber band thing again? Is this some kind of game? Did he change his mind about me? Im feeling frustrated with men and their confusing behavior.

  354.  #354IamHis on February 16, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    Feedback would feel good, though I am not sure what I am looking for.

    I feel so tender and anxious about Foreign Guy.

  355.  #355Veronica on February 16, 2015 at 10:16 pm


    I’m so sorry that you had a miscarriage. I felt slipping into dread when I read about your bleeding – the same happened to me. I hope that you are okay and feel relieved that you felt cared for when that happened.
    Regarding the possibility of anemia, did your doctor prescribed iron and folic acid supplements?

  356.  #356Azure Blu on February 16, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    To me… it feels like you do have the right approach..
    Something small and thoughtful…
    handmade card sounds delightful!! With loving poem
    you write on the inside…

    special cup cakes you bake at home?

  357.  #357Veronica on February 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Last Sunday I had a miscarriage. I find it so difficult to tell people because I had been on a rollercoaster: pregnant one moment, possibly miscarrying the next, then okay and a safe pregnancy to landing up in a clinic with painful cramps and major bleeding/clots in the space of a week. I feel exhausted at the thought of letting my family and friends know what has happened (again). I can’t quite access fully my emotions about the miscarriage. I’ve spent a week at Funny’s place recovering and dealing with my fears. I share with Funny what I can regarding my fears and feelings – he’s been very supportive, encouraging and tender. He’s also shared his experience of this and his emotions. I remember initially feeling uneasy about being honest with my thoughts since they had quite a bit of ambiguity to them – he completely opened up – i felt connected to him because of that. Strangely, our relationship seems to have matured so much that when I think of how we were before all of this, it seems different. We’re moving in together in two weeks – I feel nervous but also so excited and happy that we’ll be together. Despite what had happened, I just take pleasure in being with each other.

    I still miss having breakfast, lunch and dinner with little one.

  358.  #358RileyTheOwl on February 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Azure blu, yes yes yes:)

    I was just looking on pinterest for card making ideas and found quite a few which I’m combining beautifully… So I’m feeling more confident about my card-quality and expressing thoughtfulness 🙂
    I too considered baking… Honestly, I’m not an amazing baker, AND he’s rather picky… But I could ask my mother or little sister to help me, and some brownies or cookies should be safe enough for his pickiness heheh :p

    Thank you for responding Azure, I appreciate it <3 also I feel glad that you think I'm on the right approach 🙂

  359.  #359Indigo on February 16, 2015 at 11:06 pm



    Lovergirl 353,

    Remember that your hormones are likely all over the show at the moment, and that you’ve suffered a loss and most probably having feelings of sadness and grief that are making you feel especially vulnerable at this time. You seem as if your need for reassurance is particularly high – as it is for many of us who feel feelings of anxiety and insecurity because of traumas we suffered in our past. But it is really important to start to develop coping mechanisms to soothe yourself and look after yourself, and not to put that responsibility solely on another person – as it seems you are doing with your man. This is something I had to do. When I’d experienced something which was distressing or upsetting (which happened easily because I am a very sensitive person) I had an insatiable need for comfort and reassurance from other people, particularly from my man. It made me ask all the same questions as you are asking – is he questioning everything? doesn’t he love me? is he playing a game? is he with someone else? And on and on and on. Please try to see that these are your feelings of unworthiness and your fear of abandonment and rejection coming up… they have nothing to do with what’s happening in the present moment. That is why learning to heal these feelings and soothe yourself is so important. If we don’t learn that, we can experience a lot of anxiety. Your man did contact you last night, it has not even been a full day, and that is not very long to a man at all. Try and go and do something nice for yourself, have a bubble bath, watch a feel-good movie, make yourself a yummy meal… whatever. Take your focus off him. This will bring him round quicker than anything else AND make you feel better.

    I send you love.

  360.  #360Victoria on February 17, 2015 at 1:05 am

    Thank you very much for reaching out to me and for the wonderful articles you directed me to.
    I read them, and they resonate with me, and I am very grateful, and much more peaceful today.
    The date yesterday did not go well. It would have been quite fine except that at a certain point I told him I was hoping that he would call me on Valentine’s day and he said it just did not occur to him. It did not cross his mind to do it.
    This basically forced me to shut down and end the date early as I just felt like I choked. I went home and cried, I do not want to pour my negative emotions on him, because I am not ready to let him go, and it seems stupic to be considering break up over such a minor issue. But it is just a confirmation that he is functioning on a different wave lenght. Or I am. Either way, I think I need a bit of time to just process this, so I will just curl up and have a nap, figuratively speaking.

  361.  #361Femininewoman on February 17, 2015 at 1:12 am


    Others might disagree with me but that just sounds cold and clueless, especially after you spoke about your feelings. I do believe some guys have a lower capacity around these things than others.

  362.  #362Victoria on February 17, 2015 at 1:21 am

    Yes, this is how it sounded to me to. He is not toxic, he is clueless. And cold occasionally. He is not on my wavelenght, and there is nothing for me to do with that, except for note the fact.

  363.  #363Lotus on February 17, 2015 at 5:07 am

    Oh ladies so much I need to catch up on your experiences. Been keeping away for some reason. Now at work with a cuppa to get warm.

    New CD guy is yummy experience, and so much has happened .. even s-e-x… flowers.. massage… home-cooked dinners… everything I have been wishing for from a lover and I feel adored and special, especially as I have chosen him to be my lover!

    ChallengingCD has dropped off since I told him ‘I feel bored of this’… the texting numbed my mind.

    It’s amazing how non-faves can quickly become the new fave… and I got totally surprised. New CD was full of platonic vibes as he was waiting for me to drop my barriers… and now he is my lover in steps.

    Walking through the door to leave my H feels oh-so-great… felt so happy walking, listening to music, face full of sunshine and feeling freeeeeee!!

    I am not responsible for anyone but myself! I am not his saviour, I am my own!!!

  364.  #364Lotus on February 17, 2015 at 5:11 am

    I’m learning to love the mistakes I have made with previous guys…

    and feel how that practicing is enabling me to relax more now…

    feeling more settled.. opening to surprises…

    feeling more lotus petals unfurl..

  365.  #365Sophie on February 17, 2015 at 5:42 am

    ((((Veronica))) I can’t imagine the turmoil that you have been experiencing and now the loss. I feel so pleased that you have Funny by your side and that you have plans to move in together. I send you lots of love waves.

    Lovergirl the same goes for you – I like what Indigo has written

    Lovetodance – how did it go????

  366.  #366Labbit on February 17, 2015 at 6:07 am

    357 Veronica — I feel so saddened to hear of your miscarriage. I’m so sorry for your loss. It feels so reassuring to hear that you and Funny are moving forward with your plans to move in together, and he seems to have demonstrated himself as quite the stand-up man. Sending lots of hugs and good thoughts your way.

    358 Riley — I love the music album idea that you had. Is there something he likes to do that you could get for him? For instance does he have a favorite coffee shop that you could get him a gift card for? If he likes a museum, you could pay for the admission for both of you for an afternoon date…that kind of thing. It would be OK to lean forward and plan the date in this instance. 🙂

    360 Victoria — Urgh. I agree with what Indigo and Dominique have said about releasing expectations and yet I’d totally be angry in your shoes too…to not even realize Valentine’s Day is something meaningful would have me steaming. I’m feeling kinda angry on your behalf just thinking about it! It seems like he does so many other things to express his love for you though. I’d probably spend a day or two loving on those angry parts and then seeing how you feel. Best not to take any action while you feel emotional.

  367.  #367Kim on February 17, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Aw Veronica. 🙁
    I am sorry.

  368.  #368Kim on February 17, 2015 at 6:49 am

    A late update on my Valentine’s Day weekend.
    I have been trying to feel my gumpy feelings and see why I am so grumpy and have been feeling disappointed last weekend.
    The weekend wasn’t bad at all! First I got a big bunch of roses from the Boston guy, plus chocolates and really sweet card. And a printed vase picture of us kayaking in the Keys. That felt very good, that he would go through all that effort, even though we are not even dating! He is still fighting and will be back down here next months.
    MoM then came with a big bunch of roses and a card and chocolates too, saw the other roses and grumbled briefly…lol.
    I just said that I can’t stop men from sending me flowers.
    We had a short discussion about the fact that he initially doubted me when I told him his ex had been checking me ou, but that went quite well.
    Had a lovely meal at a wonderful restaurant..very intimate and romantic…nice conversation…nothing deep, nothing about us, nothing soppy. Lol.
    Then he tells me he has been to the restaurant once before, a few years ago, with his gf (this ex), because you ‘wouldn’t go to such a place by yourself, too romantic/intimate’.
    At the time I was as calm as cucumber but, over the last two days I have felt anger rising. The one evening we wanted to do something special, I get reminded of that, and that I am not the first girl he takes to this unique restaurant on a Valentine’s date.
    The next day we went on a kayaking adventure which was nice but I had a terrible headache all day long.
    The whole weekend felt off. It was a three day weekend, we saw one night and one day…I had canclled my Monday work arrangements, after he said he had the day off and we would have a longe weekend (yay!), and then he informed me that he had booked his car in for a service and wanted to do some stuff around his apartment…Took me home monday mornign and I heard nothing all day.
    I feel disappointed, and I do not know even why because of course he did nothing wrong. I don’t feel we are really connected right now. I am having nightmares about him moving in, with his massive TV and his annoying TV shows and his phone jingling all night, with texts from his work buddies – he was texting them while we were in bed Sunday night…at midnight. I felt irritated. Like, he sees these people 40 hours a week, and has to text them at midnight on Sundays also?
    Do I want this in my Condo, in my sanctuary?
    Constant beeping, constant TV?
    I feel very irritable right now and very unfair, as he is a great guy.
    I remember years ago, when MrP whom I was so in love with, exhibited so much horrible and irritating behavior and someone said to me: can you accept this man as he is?
    And I think I said: Yes, I coukd make allowances for all this behavior, if I knew we were committed fo each other and he was ‘all in’…I would be prepared to work on this if I felt safe.
    Is this the same?
    Maybe I am not in love enough,
    Maybe I feel that we are not committed enough.
    Maybe I feel that I have waited too long already to see him say anything concrete regarding our future, anything other than ‘when I buy a house’.
    I am missing the “we”.
    This is the point. I don’t feel like waiting for the “we”.
    I don’t feel like compromising when I have not heard a concrete “we” or proposal. Or an indication that any of this is to come.
    I decided over this weekend, that I am going to let him move in here (he hasn’t handed in his notice either btw), give it a little time, and then if nothing changes, I am going to let him rent my place at a great price (so he still has an advantage in moving), and get back to europe..and focus on my financial and professional well being.
    This feels important to me. I am ok with that.
    We spoke about all this before. He just nodded and never really spoke up about anything.
    At the end of the day, i do want a man who makes decisions, and I am not waiting around hoping something will change.
    He is a great man but I would be doing myself a disservice, if I did that.
    Just venting! 🙂

  369.  #369Lovergirl on February 17, 2015 at 7:26 am

    (((Veronica))) It is extra difficult when you have told others about your pregnancy. I am glad your man is there for you, that is such a comforting feeling. One of the things that signalled the beginning of the end of my marriage, was my ex not being there for me emotionally while I was grieving over a miscarriage, my fathers death and my mother’s attempted suicide. I feel like him sticking by you is the sign of a good man.


    Thank you so much for your heartfelt advice. It resonates with me and I feel you are correct. I am emotional and my tendency is to put very high expectations on him right now that I probably shouldn’t. He has been good to me and done nothing technically wrong.

    I feel like I am disassociating from the miscarriage, not feeling anything, which I know is a coping mechanism I learned during my traumatic, abusive childhood. The feelings come out in other ways though, even when I think I am stuffing them down. I have to be careful not to transfer them to the man in my life.

  370.  #370Lovergirl on February 17, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Kim- I am curious, have you mentioned to him that the television and texting habits annoy you? Perhaps this is something that could be expressed in a feeling message. Maybe something like “I am looking forward to having you move into my place but am also afraid that I will be annoyed by the television. I am a person that enjoys moments of quiet and solitude. What do you think we should do about that part?” Perhaps just knowing it bothers you will inspire him to turn it down. There is also the possibility, that living alone, he is using it to keep himself company and keep from beimg afraid. Men dont like to admit that sort of thing but my guy said something that hinted in that direction awhile back.

    My kids were gone for the weekend and I said it felt creepy coming back to a big,empty, dark house. He was like, I know, it helps to turn on the tv.

  371.  #371Violette on February 17, 2015 at 7:53 am

    Azure Blue thank you for being happy that I had a fun V Day. I know it can be an annoying day for a lot of people and I appreciate it.

    Dominique thank you for seeing my post as growth. It’s really nice to hear that. I myself don’t see my relationship that way at all, I feel guilty most of the time that I’m with a guy who has nothing but nice things to say about me to others and I find myself mostly complaining. I feel ashamed of being with someone who wants and adores me so much, and I feel that we’re basically incompatible. It would be so nice if he were the one, because I could relax in his loving and safe arms and fall in love forever. I could settle in. I could be really in relationship. I feel dishonest but I don’t have it in me to leave at the moment. It just feels so wonderful to be this loved.

  372.  #372Kim on February 17, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Good points lovergirl!

  373.  #373Indigo on February 17, 2015 at 8:34 am

    Lovergirl 369,

    I can tell by the way you write that you had an abusive, traumatic childhood. I also have a tendency to dissociate from traumatic experiences, not so much to numb out but I become intensely practical and independent. I do chores or errands, or immerse myself in a story, like a movie or book. This is not a bad thing as it’s a coping mechanism, but I do strive to be more aware of it, as the way to heal is by feeling the feelings… not acting out of them, but feeling them, sitting with them and letting them move through you. It was a great revelation to me to hear that waiting anxiously to hear from my man was a way for me to avoid feeling the uncomfortable feelings. It gets easier though if you can allow them through.

  374.  #374Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 8:38 am

    {{{{Veronica}}} #357
    Ohhh… noooo..
    I’m not even sure of the words to say that would
    give you
    love and support at this difficult time…

    I am so sorry for your loss…
    I am sending warm arms for huggss… darling Siren.

    I feel happy to hear that you and Funny will be living together!! Excellent… and all the support and intimacy you are both experiencing at this time…
    Warm, sunshiny, soft summer breezes to you both.

  375.  #375Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Kim… yes… i think Lovegirl
    at some wonderful suggestions…

    I’m glad you had a nice time with Mom
    on Valentines day!!

    Huggs you are doing AMAZING!!!

    this is just me observing…
    but from where I sit it looks like your capacity for emotional intimacy is being stretched….
    Try and feel what is going on for YOU…
    most times i have found…
    when i am pointing fingers at the other person…
    three of them are pointing back at me…
    WHAT is it I need to do… I NEED to feel…
    I need to paint myself with LOTS of love…

    I can only imagine How I would be triggered…
    letting a man get sooo close (as in living together)
    I know i’d be trying to push him away
    and not even know i was doing it..

    You are brave!!

    Think about alllll the things you DO love
    about Mom…
    verbally give him appreciation for those things… unzip YOUR heart…
    Rori and Dominique both tell us that it is US
    who need to lead the way for Relationship.
    Huggs you are doing AMAZING!!!

  376.  #376Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 9:11 am

    darling Siren…
    of course you would be feeling numb…

    When I can’t stand the emotional intimacy..
    I get very angry at the other person…
    my coach Natalina says
    My anger is trying to protect ME
    from what has hurt me in the past…
    But we don’t have to let those NV
    be in control ANYMORE…
    She told me to acknowledge the
    anger… love and hold her near…
    Ask her to talk to you and
    you will love and take care of her…
    BUT YOU are in charge now…

    Just my thoughts… you are doing AMAZING!!

  377.  #377Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 9:31 am

    ((((LoverGirl)))) ((((Veronica))))

    Wish you all the love and strength.

  378.  #378Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 9:36 am


    So sorry. Admittedly, I’m not the most patient and understanding about unmet expectations, but I would for sure be crushed by that without apology.

  379.  #379Labbit on February 17, 2015 at 9:46 am

    376 Azure Blu — Awww, I love what you’ve said here! Very wise words from Natalina channeled through you. I’ll take this to heart as well.

    The anger feels SO WEIRD to me…it seems to pop up out of nowhere with a vengeance. Sometimes I even think, why am I angry right now? Thank you for helping me put a finger on it. Even though your comment was for Kim, very helpful for me too!

  380.  #380Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 9:58 am

    Azure Blu

    Love what you wrote about anger. Thank you. I so understand this yucky feeling feeling.

  381.  #381Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 10:00 am

    Lovergirl 370

    Great scripting. Not my situation, but very helpful. Thanks.

  382.  #382Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Labbit & GG…
    sooo glad that my words were helpful…

    YES, Natalina has helped me SOOOO much
    in just a few sessions…

    helped me with my boy energy… getting on track with making money… I had become like a Rock that
    couldn’t move…
    it was so BIZARRE!!!
    It was as if I was trying to
    destroy myself????
    She broke me FREEE!!! from that…
    Ahhhh… Siggghhhh!!!
    I have more work than I have in 4 years!!!
    AND I’m keeping up with my deadlines!! :-))

  383.  #383Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 10:15 am

    How was your date?

  384.  #384Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 10:17 am


    No pressure to share if you don’t feel like it, but know that I am thinking about you and your date. 🙂

  385.  #385Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 10:18 am

    Ha! Azure beat me to it!

  386.  #386Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 10:41 am


  387.  #387Andrea on February 17, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Very shocking and triggering post ahead. I’m sorry. But please don’t read if you are sensitive to violence.

    Insanely tumultous upheaval over the weekend and I will not recover from it. I’ve destroyed all my contacts I have with men. (I think I did it on purpose.)

    Down the street from our hotel there was a murder on Valentine’s night. A boyfriend killed his girlfriend.

    We had police and undercover agents coming in and asking questions. And then Sunday morning during our breakfast rush hour there was a major bust and an arrest of three people. Officers came swarming into the lobby flashing badges, yelling at people, handcuffing people.

    When it settled and the officers cordoned off a part of the lobby for their use and to detain one of the men they’d handcuffed, I walked around to our guests, apologizing, assuring, trying to make amends, commenting on different things, trying to restore a sense of normalcy.

    When it was all over and my manager arrived, I clocked out early… before noon. And I went to the nearest bar that was open on a Sunday, and I drank. I drank all day. I even won a hundred dollars in pull tabs and then I used that money to drink some more.

    Then, for what ever reason, I went to my car and called every single man in my contacts and I guess I basically told them all… well… I don’t really remember what I told anyone, I just remember how I was feeling.

    I was sitting in that car feeling so unsafe. I was feeling so untrusting of this universe and this world and I was feeling like no one better come near me.

    On Monday I got a few texts from these men saying basically, “Do Not Ever Contact Me Again. (You crazy B****)”

    Yeah, so I basically cut all ties from all men. CD’s, friends, lovers, past and present, RRguy and all other flirtations included.

    And very scarily, I can’t even remember what I said to any of them. But, for some reason, I don’t feel very apologetic.

    RRguy sent me a text on Monday that said, “Ummm, I only wanted to have some fun with you. I never meant for this to be a serious connection. You seem to be a very needy person and that is not condusive to my life style. Honestly, I’m just not that into you. I’m sorry. Please don’t ever try to correspond with me again.”

    And all I could think was…. “crud, I wonder what I said to him.”

    Today I’ve taken the day off of work and school and I’m just sitting at home with my curtains drawn and my doors locked and drinking lots and lots of WATER!! And not trying to recover or make repairs or excuses.

    I also made an appointment to see a psycho-therapist.

    I kind of feel ….. I don’t know…. breathing space. I feel like I had a huge HUGE temper tantrum over the weekend and I needed everyone to just back off.
    (The strange thing is, that no one was really up in my grill. It’s not like I had undo pressure from anyone. I was the one who was keeping the connections going. So I’m not sure why I felt so oppressed. But now, I feel kind of free.)

    I feel very alone. But I also feel very… start over. Without any of the energy ??? or any of the pressure ??? to be a certain way???
    I don’t know. I wish I could figure out why when I was drunk and feeling extremely vulnerable and unsafe I unleashed a whole bunch of anger on potential romantic partners.

    I feel very…. I don’t know …. like I betrayed myself somehow over the weekend OR, like I had been betraying myself all along and now I’m done with it. I feel kind of like “firestarter”… like…. ENOUGH!! I just raged a huge fire and now everyone is burned up in my wake, and now I can be calm and move on.

    The only problem is, I don’t know why i feel like that. Anyway, Valentine weekend was a horrible horrible weekend. And I don’t want to work at that hotel anymore.

  388.  #388lovetodance on February 17, 2015 at 11:36 am

    darling sirens…
    thank you so much for keeping track of me and wanting to know….that feels so warm and tender…..


    i enjoyed myself. i enjoyed him.i got some feeling messages in that were authentic. i felt engaged, open, vunerable….i felt in my body [and to borrow a phrase i think from andrea….sweet tinglings in my ‘lady parts’…hope not TMI]

    thats the good news

    the conflictual part is ……do i want to get closer to this man?

    he draws me….he is gentle, loving, honest, vulnerable, and even gorgeous when you look at him face on….

    but the years have taken their toll….has survived his own demons….has been [very] around…has survived some serious health issues….without going so much into his story….i just see how we relate with such authenticity….and

    all my ambivalence comes up….

    my dear friend has told me you can just get to know each other without the pressure of naming it….you don’t have to know ….just enjoy yourself….feel safe with your own timing….

    and i say

    meet and cd others …..

    so i will see how this unfolds….my work here and the support here and the learning here has anchored and grounded me in such a deep and complimentary way to all that i have learned in my life….has shone a light in the darkest corners that now am ready to tangle with in a different way… at this great stage in my life new tools to use …they were here before but somehow now i can use them REALLY…

    he also made it easy for me to stay in love with myself…he was so kind and real and gentle…

    anyhow we will see….
    my love to all of you….and thank you again for asking…MWAH!

  389.  #389Gemini Goddess on February 17, 2015 at 11:37 am


  390.  #390lovetodance on February 17, 2015 at 11:52 am

    [[[[[[[ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh andrea andrea andrea andrea]]]]]]]]]]]]]

    darling sweet girl woman siren sweetheart…..

    i feel speechless and soooooooooo sad ….

    i just want to hold and hug you

    honey…..i am so glad you made an appointment for therapy….you deserve, warrant and need all the help and love you can get now…

    this sounds so much to me like a post traumatic response…
    sometimes being able to name a reaction is the first step to begin the healing….

    sweetheart….we are here for you….keep posting darling as you walk through this…

    can you take baths, saunas, get a massage?….this is the time to treat yourself like the beautiful woman you are…we all have our demons and voices and energies that rage and calm and destroy and clear and soothe….we are human….hold yourself, be your best best best friend now….and always….

    a phrase kristi kay passed on to me…


    i have used this and works for me…
    towards me and and everyone else in my conscious and un-conscious….

    i am sending you blessings and light right now…

  391.  #391IamHis on February 17, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    ((((((Andrea))))))) – I’m so sorry you experienced all that! While I can’t speak from personal experience, I feel relieved that you are seeing a psychotherapist. While what happened at the hotel would feel scary and triggering, your reaction feels very intense, & I think a psychotherapist could help you understand why and heal that scared angry woman inside.

    I wish I could give you a big real life hug and offer you a family and support system, but since I can’t, know you have my thoughts and prayers and a “listening” ear here on the blog if you need it.

    In the meantime, I hope you will do everything you can to take good care of yourself and to make you feel safe again.


  392.  #392Labbit on February 17, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    387 — Andrea, oh my goodness. I can only imagine the triggers that must have rushed to the surface hearing about that kind of heinous crime, so close to where you were, and then seeing the police come into one of your ‘safe’ zones.

    Love that part of you so hard right now. The part that is in pain, that is scared, that is angry. The part that feels unsafe whenever anyone gets too close, that doesn’t want to trust anyone else.

    When we feel our safety has been violated somehow we can do all kinds of things. All my wishes for you to feel safe again very, very soon.

  393.  #393Mistea1 on February 17, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Andrea 387,

    What a terrible thing for you to experience. I feel for all you are feeling. The shock and stress you felt must have been most unbearable. Imagine Siren island gathered around you and all giving a reassuring group hug !!!!!

    If you can be treated quickly for this incident the better it will be. If you want to, right now you can tap your fingers on the outside edge of your hands below the little finger. Do both sides, breathe slowly while doing so. It is calming and will relax you and take the edge off until you can see someone.

    Let us know how it goes.

  394.  #394Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    words fail me… warm, calming thoughts to you…

  395.  #395Azure Blu on February 17, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    Ahhhh… so glad to hear about your date…
    thank you for sharing!

  396.  #396Labbit on February 17, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    Yes lovetodance I agree with Azure Blu I feel so happy that you shared how your date went!

  397.  #397Lotus on February 17, 2015 at 3:38 pm



  398.  #398Lotus on February 17, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    I can only say right now how my psychotherapist has been helping me deal with my triggers and self-sabotaging actions…. helping to navigate my journey as I stretch, break a little, grow and evolve. It’s been a wonderful sanctuary to combine with RR’s ways.

    Be kind to yourself, sounds like you’re doing the best thing to be gentle with yourself.

  399.  #399Kim on February 17, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Andrea, whoa…I feel shocked and worried for you and yet..it triggered me insanely what RR guy said…what a dick, sorry, there I said it.
    Witnessing something like that can derail anyone, truly anyone, for a few hours or a few days.
    Much love to you!

  400.  #400Kim on February 17, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Azure Blu, thank you for your words. They made me think.
    Yes, maybe my fear of intimacy, maybe.
    Or maybe just tapping into what I want, and feel i deserve, and holding out for that,
    Maybe a mixture of all?
    I am almost 40 years old. I have been through many relationships, some 5/3 years long, some shorter.
    I have only felt one time that a man was 100% into me. And there was, surprisingly, no feat of intimacy or fear of anything..of course it wasn’t perfect, but I felt loved and wanted and like I was the most precious thing on this earth.
    It ended because we were so very young and our first/second jobs took us to opposite directions, and I naively thought all relationships will be like this lol. I ended it.
    MoM is close to what I had then, but he does not make me feel like I am his one.
    He makes me feel like I am someone…he could live with, he could be a companion to. Which is lovely. What is missing is the enthusiasm, the wish to make me his, the longing to have me all to himself and to pave a way for our future.
    And this is what at this stage of my life feels so important to me.
    He likes things as they are. Since I stopped dating others, things got better, he relaxed, and now he relaxed into knowing that I am his already. Why take things forward?
    For me this feels sad.
    He accused me today of creating drama, just because I told him I do not feel a connection, a team, a ‘we’ about what we are doing.
    This is not drama, it is how I felt.
    I felt from the get go, 1 1/2 years ago, that he was dating another woman…call it intuition..turns out he was/is, even if only passively.
    I feel like a replacement, not his ‘one’.
    I will not tie myself to a man when I feel it is not ‘it’..and he doesn’t want the best for me and us.
    He is a great guy, he is not doing anything wrong but maybe it is just not enough for me?
    I do not know.

  401.  #401Lotus on February 17, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    For Valentines, I had a date with new fave CD, who I don’t have a name for yet. It just happened to fall on the Saturday. On Valentines morning I dreamt of a blonde siren boarding a plane in a floaty pink dress, and her terrorist lover jumped out with a parachute, not to escape but to somehow save her. She was oblivious that he had gone as she breezed ahead…

    So all day I kept thinking of my floaty pink dress mixed with adventure and mystery.. and was worried I’d be making too much effort, scared what I’d be inviting.. as I don’t often wear colourful stuff. Then right before the date, after trying on different outfits, I knew I just had to go with my gut and inner siren, and wear the pink.

    I felt extra girly with my bare legs as my date had never seen me in anything but jeans/leggings. I even curled my hair and took some pink fizz over, thinking I’m celebrating with my heart, for myself, and just feeling special that this lovely man spent the previous evening cleaning, and all day preparing and cooking dinner for me. I had been really looking forward to the date all week, as we’ve waxed lyrical about food and cocktails, so I knew he was a good cook and cocktail-maestro.

    I felt surprise after surprise as he unveiled different dishes accompanied by drinks, and surprised me with some fresh market flowers. He really helped me to melt, and later jested that I’m a ‘butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-my-mouth’ kind of girl!

    During dinner, as I was getting a bit more drunk, I started talking about Millionaire Matchmaker – that Patti advise