Questions Answered From Targeting Mr. Right

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“Rori, I just finished the targeting Mr. Right series. And in the series you said you’d go over how to talk about STDs and herpes, and you also mentioned you’d talk about why not to give a man a blow job. I couldn’t find the answers to those questions in Targeting Mr. Right – is there another place I can find them?”

My Answer:

I don’t know exactly where I answered these questions – in Targeting Mr. Right or my other programs, so I’ll just answer it here, and then include it in the written material available with Targeting Mr. Right! So here’s some great information on BOTH topics.

First – the Herpes/STD issue:

These are two great answers I found online. I especially like this one from a man – Evan Marc Katz:

And this one is great – from a Medical Specialist at the National Herpes Hotline (the article covers a lot of things that need to be talked about with a man – so I’ve copied and pasted the relevant herpes section below –

Here’s the part about herpes:

How to break the news to a date
When to tell: Since herpes could affect the health of your partner, it’s crucial that you tell him before you’ve had any genital-to-genital or oral-genital contact (even with condoms, since there’s still a slight chance of transmission), says Brennan Ames-Phares, a health communication specialist at the National Herpes Hotline. But that said, many herpes sufferers opt to tell dates right away.

Ames-Phares advises against the first-date confessional: “There’s no need for him to know unless there’s a risk of exposure,” she says. Waiting allows you to build more of a connection, so you won’t be rejected right away.

What to say:  Instead of just blurting out “I have herpes,” Ames-Phares recommends saying, “I really like you and would like to take this further, but before we do so I’d like to talk about our sexual histories.” Ask your date if he or she has ever been tested for AIDS or STDs, and if not, encourage him or her to do so. (Case in point: 90 percent of people with herpes are unaware they have it.)

This approach shows that you’re serious about your health — and your date’s — which will soften the blow when you say, “As for me, ten years ago I was diagnosed with herpes.”

Your date may be a little scared when he hears this, but explaining how you felt when you found out you had it and how you’ve dealt with it since will help him better relate to what you’re going through and see how well you’re managing your health.

How to deal if your date freaks: Allay your date’s fears by keeping these comforting facts on hand: Herpes is highly treatable. “Herpes today is much more manageable than having it 20 years ago,” says Ames-Phares. Thanks to new medications, outbreaks can occur infrequently and less severely.

More good news: Recent studies have shown low transmission rates among couples in which one partner has herpes—less than 2 percent if condoms are used at least half of the time. Encourage your date to call the National Herpes Hotline at 919-361-8488 for more information.

About the blow job:

Moving toward sex has to be a process.

Even if it’s a fast-moving, first night, eyes-locked, passionate, intense sexual experience – it’s got to be a process. Sucking a man’s penis is part of that process – and I recommend it always, just as his pleasing you with oral sex would be part of that process.

But giving a man a blow job while you stay untouched is something else entirely.

It’s equatable with “servicing” – and though it’s an AMAZING thing to do when you’re in a relationship with someone, and for those occasions when you’re perhaps not “so in the mood for sex” yourself – giving blow jobs “instead” of entering into the full process of sex is going to absolutely be leaning forward, working to please him, and become one of those things that make you unattractive as a life partner for the long haul.

Am I saying that you shouldn’t have oral sex – first he takes care of you, then you take care of him – as a step in the sexual process before intercourse?

Perhaps in some circumstances (no birth control available, you have vaginal pain that needs addressing) that would be fine…but it’s an odd first step.

It’s more erotic than it is emotionally connecting – so it should be, for me, a VARIATION in the process of becoming sexually attuned to one another.

Sometimes it’s more convenient. Sometimes it’s more efficient physically and time-wise. Sometimes it’s way more erotic than intercourse – you can often get in more exotic positions – and so it can be a great part of the sexual exploration you go on together.

Sometimes it’s just “easier.”

As a first step – for me, it sets a “tone” that is hard to overcome.

Men are so used to porn these days – to disconnected sex with images and body parts that do not include a whole, real woman.

Your goal is to be that whole, real woman, and to have a relationship with a man who SEES you and EXPERIENCES you as whole and real. Who WANTS to connect with all of you – not just your parts.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on February 3, 2014 at 6:28 am


  2.  #2Mad-mind Siren on February 3, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Rori, I have a question. I’m reading your blog, and e-book, watching Mondern Siren, and it’s so amazing, it’s really very transforming! But there is one problem why I can’t get out the most of it- I have my ex on my mind for the most of the time, it’s to that point where I consider searching for professional help? Or maybe there will be some specific tools you could advice me to practice more?…
    It’s not that I have nothing to do or that I don’t think about anything else. I’m pretty busy, I work 5days a week, I go out with girls, I flirt with men (but can’t feel attracted towards any), but thoughts and images of my ex are ALWAYS overtaking my mind. 24/7. I would be ok if that was only occasional but it’s lot more than that. Ideally and my goal is that I only remember him when he contacts me. Now whatever I do he is on my mind, even when I practice the tools and it really pressures me. Makes me feel that everything I do is for him, which I don’t want to feel, that feels icky to me and makes me feel lot less attractive. I’m not sure how long has it been for, but it’s been a while, maybe a lot longer than I’m aware of..and I tried to stop it. Oh I tried…maybe I just don’t really know how? Please help

  3.  #3Rori Raye on February 3, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Mad-mind – Yes! Try out one of my certified coaches – they’ll give you some techniques to help you. Also – Modern Siren has much to help you…keep watching!! Love, Rori

  4.  #4Femininewoman on February 3, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Interesting – giving blow jobs “instead” of entering into the full process of sex is going to absolutely be leaning forward, working to please him, and become one of those things that make you unattractive as a life partner for the long haul.

  5.  #5Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 9:18 am

    I’m feeling fearful today ….

    and while I’m trying to work emotions come up… and gosh it’s hard to work and deal with my emotions at the same time…

    I have a fear of getting std’s and though I have every man get tested… and ask them, I have no way of knowing if they are withholding or not… I usually wait a month.. before having sex…so I’m as careful as I know how to be…so this subject always induces fear in me…

    Last Valentines I had an actually Valentine…first time in eons… and with “M”… though I was trying to be POsitive and be grateful…

    It wasn’t that fun.. really – my favorite restaurant and he made comment about the restaurant will give you a rose… so I didn’t get you any… and then he talked about himself the entire dinner… about how hard it was to become a stock broker… and then to his house and he just handed me a box of chocolates that I couldn’t eat.. b/c they didn’t fit my diet restrictions for gluten and dairy free… and though I felt happy to have that… it was pretty much me excepting crumbs…. and I could feel it… he wanted to do as little as possible… though I sucked it up and said, well it’s better than what I’ve had which is nothing…

    So my point is there is a fine line there.. that is a gray area…. to be happy to have what you have and have gratitude… and focus on what HE does do… and then also honoring what your gut says about his real intent….

    and I felt weird the way he did it… really weird… but I was grateful b/c it was the best I’d ever had in my life…

    and I wonder about that… accepting what they do, do…. and also listening to that inner knowing …

    “M’ was a master of doing as little as possible… and he had an issue with giving much b/c he said he had 2 other girlfriends which he gave too much to and they left him… so I was the lucky woman that got to reap the benefits of those last 2 girlfriends… and so he was damaged and didn’t want to give to me…

    He was trying to buy their love… it didn’t work…

    all this is coming up… now that V- day is here… and 2 of my girlfriends just found new guys… so I’m here… no – man… no valentine…

    however, I’d rather be alone than to have a workaholic, ocd, sex addict, avoidant or someone wanting me to be the bread winner… etc.. all the things I’ve attracted so far…

    going to extremes to be with me feels good but only if they are men that I’d want to be in a relationship with…


  6.  #6Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Question re: sex and CDing

    If there has been no discussion about exclusivity or seeing other people and I am having sex with one CD.. am I free to have sex with someone else without discussing this with either of them? In other words, if they don’t ask or bring up exclusivity then I am safe to assume we are all free agents?

  7.  #7Indigo on February 3, 2014 at 11:21 am

    I agree with Rori here… a blowjob can be an intimate, connecting experience but it so depends on how it’s done. I also believe that the motivation or intention behind doing it is very important…

    If it’s just a part of a complete, juicy, emotionally connecting experience for both of you I believe it would be fine… if it’s something done purely to please him, I agree with Rori, it sets a “tone” that I believe would make me pretty uncomfortable.

  8.  #8Indigo on February 3, 2014 at 11:26 am


    As far as I know, yes. However, I believe sometimes certain cultural factors come into it where a certain exclusivity might be “assumed” if you are sleeping together (it is like that here in South Africa). I personally think it is worth gauging the man’s perception of the situation and what he understands by it, even if it means leaning forward a tiny bit – maybe by using feeling messages.

  9.  #9Andrea on February 3, 2014 at 11:59 am

    Oh Lisa, what you said about “M” and the two women he dated before you…
    That reminds of a conversation I had with a man in a coffee shop recently.
    We were chit chatting, started having a really great conversation about dating in our middle ages. We talked about what we’d both found out about gender roles and dating through out our years of experience.

    I was thinking he might have been gaining more and more of an interest in me specifically and then I knew I was right when he said, “Yeah, the women I usually found myself avoiding are those women who think that the man is supposed to pay for everything and bring gifts and “buy” their affection. You can tell those types. Not like you. You seem like the kind of woman who is natural and friendly and who would like and respect a guy just for who he is not what he buys for her.”

    Hmmmm… I smiled very sweetly and I said, “Well, let me clear that up for you.”

    He was surprised and then he laughed. I was part way joking but part way serious.
    He said, “I mean, what’s wrong with going dutch on a date? What’s wrong with the woman buying the man a gift sometimes? What’s wrong with the woman picking the man up and doing the driving, with the gas prices are, it seems fair…?” And etc etc..

    I was still smiling and I was so so sweet. I said to him, “Very honestly, there is nothing at all wrong with a man like that. Nothing at all. You can expect dutch, and not buy gifts, and ask the woman to drive, and maybe pick wild flowers out of a field on the side of the road. All of that. You get to choose how you are in this world. You get to be that kind of man, and you just don’t get to date a woman like me. That’s all. I think you’re a wonderful person. I just would not want to date you.”

    Then we had a very excited and heated and passionate discussion… getting to the heart of it all. And we laughed and had a wonderful time. And in the end he still asked me for my phone number. I said, “No.”
    But I reflect back on that a lot lately. It was so true. I had no problem at all with him as a person, as a human being, as a man. He was just not a man that I want to date. And he has every right in the world to be the kind of man that I don’t want to date. : )

    It’s very free-ing to know that I have the also have the right to be the type of woman that perhaps some men would not want to date. Cause I’m finding out that there are other men, who I AM the type of woman for. : )

  10.  #10Cris on February 3, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    wondering what is considered as “initiating” or “giving” during sex. When both in the couple are giving and receiving, all at the same time, that concept is lost or vanished. And it must be that way

  11.  #11Dominique on February 3, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Cris – Basically it’s mostly about you and your pleasure and orgasm because it’s easy for a man. He’s easily aroused, and he easily comes to orgasm as long as he’s healthy of course.

    It’s tends to be more difficult for most women. Well not so much difficult maybe as more complicated, more factors tend to be involved.

    Plus just as in other areas, a man’s greatest pleasure or in this case turn on, is to see his woman feeling good, experiencing pleasure, orgasming, and if he’s been the creator or at least the helper in all of this, so much the better. This is what enhances his own pleasure.

    There is naturally a flow in this as in relationship as well.

    Does this help?


  12.  #12Cris on February 3, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    yes 🙂 that’s why I think the give-receive concept is different while having sex

  13.  #13Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    @Andrea YOU GO GIRL! That was amazing! I’d love to know what you said to “clear it up” for him!!!

    and yes, I’m all with you…. I just don’t want to date a man like that…

    and in my opinion they are boys… ( sorry if this triggers anyone) but it’s “what’s in it for me” mentality and “M” actually said that to me on about the 5 or 6th date.. and if I’d known better, I’d had that same talk you did… what I did say was “oh! your a tit for tat kind of guy…? I don’t do that… ”

    In my opinion besides the whole masculine and feminine thing… is women have so much more expenses than men… make up- hair products, clothing ( much more than a man) our hair cuts cost more, our hair products cost more… and so to me, it just balances things out….

    I had a guy recently ask me if I had the 2bucks it took to get into the club for dancing… I said, sorry I just don’t… and he eluded to dutch dates etc… so, I don’t do that… and I agree with Dr. Pat if every woman, mother, sister said NO to the men in their lives the world would change over night!!!

    Rori said something to that once in a newsletter…

    I think the work we are doing to pull ourselves out of the oppressive state we’ve been in… is going to make a huge difference… the more women that wake up to this the better and faster men will decide to grow up as Graham White says…

    That’s awesome!!!!!

    I love this topic of conversation and would just love to talk more about it with other women…

    I feel excited just hearing that from you!!!!


  14.  #14Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    I’d like to get your take on this, sirens. I had plans to get together with someone tonight (first time meeting) from an online dating site. He had suggested tonight at 7 but didn’t know where to meet since he’s not familiar with the town we were to meet at. So I suggested a place. That was last week. I hadn’t heard back from him until this afternoon and he confirmed the meeting time and place with apologies for not getting back to me earlier! Felt like a big turn off to me and not very respectful. I’m just supposed to sit around waiting for him to confirm or not? Anyway, I’m leaning toward not going. Just feeling angry about it and about all the lame men that I keep meeting lately (who want go dutch, don’t make any $, sit around on their lazy asses etc.)
    etc.) Anyway, what are your thoughts, ladies? Is he being as lame as I think he is?

  15.  #15cupcake on February 3, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    I have been in this very situation and didn’t go.

    Later I regretted it because it felt like a missed opportunity to practice on a man with low stakes.

    I’m going to guess if you don’t see him tonight that you never will. In my experience, that is how the dynamic plays out.

  16.  #16Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    good point, cupcake, v good point! His profile says he’s separated. Deal breaker? I’ve never dated anyone who is separated before. I met a woman last week who said she had been seeing someone who was separated but never would have done it if she had known (he didn’t tell her at first).

  17.  #17Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    OMG, I just bit the bullet! OMG!!!!!

  18.  #18T.Bradley on February 3, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    If nobody else understand how you feel trust me I do!!!!!!

  19.  #19jira on February 3, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    Rori, Ive dated a man off and on for 9 months, and didnt sleep with him even tho he was passionate about me. We saw each other again and started dating again last month and the first night we got together we had an electric makeout session which ended in his car, and I kissed him all over and gave him a BJ. We didnt proceed to have sex as I called the night off. He had been thru some devastating time in the last 2 months and it was my way of loving him up. When he makes out with me its never that disconnected sex way, he seems to kiss me with his heart. It seemed ok? He loved it? We are getting together soon, so gosh I am learning so much on her, about leaning back….but this feels like I failed with the bj, im gong to choos to just move forward.

  20.  #20Shannon on February 3, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    Andrea, that was SO awesome to read! I adore how you let him be who he is and just made your own boundaries clear and simple! Just loved it! I don’t know why, but I feel so light and airy after reading that!

    I also feel so, so grateful that you posted it, thank you!

  21.  #21Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @LiquidLight I know me too!!! Right! Sometimes i feel as though they apologize just to get back in…. and if it were me, I’d ask myself if I really felt like going, and if not say, I’m sorry I didn’t hear back from you and I have other plans… well in a more feeling type message…

    I just am to the point where I’m not going to take up the slack…for them….

    a friend of mine and I were having a convo this weekend on how MANY men just don’t even try when it comes to courting a woman…or have a CLUE, they put very little effort into it…

    and Rori said once… to drop the clueless and the confused… I pretty much do!

    and if you feel like you might want to go, I’d go – whatever you feel is right to you… I sometimes go just to practice…

    and if it were me, I’d use my feeling messages to somehow let him know… I need more notice or confirmation…


  22.  #22Tereana on February 3, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    LL, you bit the bullet how? Are you going or not going?

    I agree that if you don’t go out with him tonight, you may not see him again. But also if you go out with him, you also may not see him again. My take on it was going to be to trust your gut. If you are not feeling totally 100% happy about going, then don’t. You are not “obligated.” You can always, say, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t know if you could make it, so I made other plans. Can we meet another time?”

    I bet you he would take another time, AND confirm in advance. But if you go, and you don’t feel great about it, he will pick up that vibe, and you may end up feeling resentful.

    But if you did decide to go on the date, heck, why not? Time to practice, and just have fun.

    There is more than one right answer! ; )

  23.  #23Tereana on February 3, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    I am glad that Rori took on this topic. There are many other common STDs to talk about that have different properties. But, it’s also helpful to remember that they are common, they can be dealt with, and occur more frequently than people think, to actual, real people – not just imaginary people who are somehow “not as good.” It is a human thing. But of course always very tricky, because everyone is concerned for their own health. I thought this was a great way to address it.


    I had a cool analogy going on in my head earlier this evening. It had to do with car accidents. Which is a weird analogy for relationships. But I remember when I took driver’s ed in high school, and they showed us this scare video. The people in it were in horrific accidents, and they described them in detail, and then they said, “It happened to me. It could…happen to you.” It was super cheesy.

    But then I was thinking about it the other way. We don’t think we’ll get into a car accident. We don’t want to, obviously. But we also likewise think that we won’t get into a relationship. Although we want to. And we watch people getting into relationships all the time, and it looks like they just got a “lucky accident.” And we think, why them, and not me? Well, why, indeed? Why don’t we just say to ourselves, “If it happened to them, it could happen to me.” This is actually what I have been practicing over the last few days, even before I thought of driver’s ed. Lol.

    But the thing is, with a relationship, it’s like a controlled (semi-controlled) accident that you have to *intentionally* get into. Because you can’t get into a “lucky accident” by driving in your safe little lane and avoiding all the other cars. You actually have to get in someone’s way and let yourself get hit.

    And, following that analogy, it made sense to think that, if we try to cause an “accident” with a male “driver,” he’s going to naturally avoid a collision. But the thing is, he wants the “happy accident” as much as we do. Only HE wants to be the one to veer out of his lane and crash into us, by choice. And this is where it gets all back to the Siren thing. Because we are the sirens. We are on the road, too. But he is the one who is crashing his boat, crashing his car, to get to us.

    Doesn’t that work out so nicely?? I thought it was nice. All from a cheesy driver’s ed video…lol

  24.  #24prplpsn28 on February 3, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    Hi everyone. Signing in 🙂

  25.  #25Tereana on February 3, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    And one other little musing I was having about circular dating. Just based on my own vibes and what I was noticing along with what I was doing. And it seems to me that simply having more men to think about doesn’t always “solve” the problem for us. That is, if we are trying not to be fixated on one guy, it doesn’t necessarily fix it if there are just multiple guys to fixate on. At least not for me. It’s like replacing one brand of crack with just multiple flavors. It’s still crack. Lol

    But where it’s really effective is if all the guys (or even jsut one) are fixated on YOU, and you are paying attention to your own life.

    It’s so obvious and i’ve known this forever, but I couldn’t quite get it to happen in my life. And then I just noticed this past weekend, that I was taking time to really just focus on myself and what I want to do. And some men were contacting me out of the blue.

    And that’s the way it’s supposed to work, I know.

    So that’s good.

    And then afterward, I thought positively about the interaction, but I am still keeping my focus squarely on MY life and what I am doing. I’m not ready to shift my trajectory for someone else.

    If a guy wants to “crash into me” (yes, like Dave Matthews Band, i think that’s who it was), he is going to have to get in my lane ; )

    haha : )

  26.  #26Amber on February 3, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    So I ended up going out on Saturday night and let me tell you, Sirens… Square dancing is FUN!!! I might just keep doing it, if I can find a partner. (K) would love to be my partner, but if I accept that from him I’ll have to make in very clear that square dancing is ALL we’re going to be doing. I’ve said it before and nothing changed on Saturday night. He bores me. As a person, he just bores me. He’s a Great listener. You know what? SO AM I. This makes for a lot of silences and not much conversation. I don’t mind silences, in general, but he seems very uncomfortable that I won’t chatter. It’s not in me to fill the quiet with meaningless noise. i can’t help comparing him to my other two main CD’s. (T) and I have wonderful silences. No tension, no NEED to fill it. I remember this distinctly from when we started dating 18 months ago. Quiet and peaceful lack of conversation. (F) carries the conversation. If it lags, I simply as a question and we’re off and running. That is so refreshing. So, I dunno. If I hear from (K) again (which I’m not at all sure of) I may have to initiate a friendship speech. I cringed at the end of the night when he kissed me. Not a good feeling. However, the “gold” in this date was that I GOT TO SQUARE DANCE AND IT WAS FUN! Thanks, Cupcake for giving me the nudge to go.

  27.  #27Amber on February 3, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    Tereana 22&24
    Great analogies, thank you!

  28.  #28Andrea on February 3, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Yay! Okay… my date from Saturday night just called me. So, now he is officially on my CD roster.
    He said he’d been waiting for a day or two because he thought that’s what he was supposed to do. Sheesh…

    I just gushed and said, “Oh Thank you so much. You know, I feel really wonderful right now hearing from you!”

    And he said, “Why am I always smiling when I talk to you?”

    Well we had a little chit chat about what fun our weekend was then he told me that he works out of town for two weeks at a time and is back in town for 6 days, then back out for two weeks.

    I think, for now, that is so perfect. I get to slowly ease into this new attitude with this new fella, and I have all the freedom and space I want to invite more CD’s into my sphere.

    I’m very happy.

    He is leaving town tomorrow and he wanted to stay on the phone and chat. HE said, “So what’s new with you?”

    And I said, “Ohhh, honestly, I am right in the middle of a brand new writing project I’m working on. I feel so good to have heard from you, but I better get back to work.”

    So he promised that he would call me while he was out of town and that as soon as he got back he wanted to make a plan to take me out dancing again. I’m very happy with this. Very happy. Yay!!

  29.  #29Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 6:23 pm

    I didn’t go. Just so disgusted with this kind of behavior. Who do these men think they are? The guy isn’t even divorced yet, and he tells me that he’s seeing someone but If I still want to meet him, we can. Then he doesn’t get back to me until the day of to confirm??? What a creep! Where’s the respect? Where’s the common human decency and politeness? Its just unbelievable to me that these men act like this and they actually expect that we will accept this type of crappy behavior??? Sheesh. Its pathetic. Then the golf guy didn’t show up at happy hour on Friday after all and no call, no text, no nothing about why not. Haven’t heard a peep from him. Its absolutely pathetic. Another guy I met at happy hour, doesn’t work very much, thinks men and women should go dutch, and somehow because I want to be treated like a lady and don’t want that crap, I’m “traditional” and my ex is traditional because he treated me when we went out and wined and dined me. But this guy is “cool” and not traditional like its somehow better. Its just an excuse to be lazy and passive and not be a man. WHAT BS!!! All these pathetic men are pushing me closer and closer to doing the matchmaking service. Sometimes I really feel like I’m getting physically sick, like I want to vomit, from these creepy guys and their appalling behavior. Barf! Sorry, I guess I needed to vent a bit…

  30.  #30Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    That’s great, Andrea! You are giving me hope! You go girl! So happy for you!!!

  31.  #31Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    (((LL))) if guy texts me day of to confirm I respond all warm and happy to say I have other plans and another day would feel great. They step up, they suddenly take notice and you can feel the difference in how they look at you. To paraphrase Cupcake I feel like my stock has gone up 🙂

    If you were to look at the guys you’re feeling angry about as messengers, what are the triggers and/or boundaries that they are giving you the opportunity to heal?

  32.  #32Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Andrea yay for you!

    And I just love the way you honor your boundaries and can discuss them and stay open and feel good about your choices without making the man wrong. Really inspiring!

  33.  #33Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    (((Cupcake))) I feel so sorry to hear of your food poisoning episode. Glad to hear you are feeling better xx

  34.  #34Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    @LiquidLight I hear you!! I’m there too! So glad you vented… it feels good doesn’t it? <3

    Well they think ( this is my opinion based on my experience) they are so special and that there are so many women out there they don't have to… especially a separated man ( he is like a kid in toys-r-us) … and the online thing is a candy store.. Men have told me this in person to my face.. ( not directed at me) but that there are so many women on and OK cupid…that they feel like they have the pick of the lot… and they are full of themselves…

    and I'm happy to bring them down a notch… sounds like you did too…

    The problem is there are so many women that think that men are scarce that they fall for this stuff and are eager to go out with them even if the call last minute….

    GOOD for you! and for me if a man stands me up.. deal breaker.. unless he had an accident and was in the hospital.. and couldn't tell me…

    Maybe your anger is like mine when it comes out it sets me free and makes me feel more powerful and strong… like I'm breaking chains around me that have kept me bound up by my old beliefs… and I'm breaking those chains… YEAH!

    I love it when women get that vibe… as you did! It feels so empowering! to be fed up!

    I love feeling my feelings to the fullest and really being with them!!! authentic! Raw! Real! Down to my toes…

    Go Girl!!!


  35.  #35Femininewoman on February 3, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    All of this talk reminds me of the metrosexual male.

  36.  #36Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    I’m feeling so bored with Bear. I went on the date Saturday night and found myself yawning and feeling exasperated while he talked and talked and then ANSWERED FOR ME and talked and talked. When I spoke, feeling messages of course, he cut me off and he is in full convincer mode that I’m wrong for feeling xyz, that I’ve got him all wrong, that I don’t appreciate his humour, that he can’t find his footing and pace with me. He’s also not matching what he says and I feel dumbstruck.. example he says he’s not religious in any way shape or form but then mentions God often and tells me he prays to God on his knees every morning and night..

    I’m mostly frustrated that the whole exclusivity, not initiating and not wanting to plan dates is still an issue for him and he was again tonight trying to get me to see his point of view. I said I hear you and I understand where you are coming from and I don’t want that it doesn’t feel good to me and we are obviously not a match (as I’ve said before) and then I got all the above again. Yawn. Tonight he calls and I realise after 10 minutes I had tuned him out, had no idea what he was talking about and then he finishes and there is silence and he says you’re not talking and starts telling me he can’t wait for our next date and its up to me to tell him when I’m free and what I want to do. I said I don’t want to do that and I have to put my kids to bed now, night! Not sure there is anything I want to practice with him anymore except maybe walking away, but I don’t need practice in that!

    Archer was amazing fun on Friday and there was so much comfort and quiet intimate moments between us and yet there are too many things going on in his life that I’m not willing to live with. I have always felt loved, supported, safe and high priority with him and it felt wonderful to explore the romantic aspect of our relationship yet the situation with his ex wife and kids has worsened over the years rather than improved and would drive me insane if we were together. I feel sad that the men who can make me feel the most loved and cherished to date are unsuitable partners for me in other ways.. This time I want my forever man though so I will not settle for some of the package when I know I want it all.

  37.  #37Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Lol I just realised that most of the things I find myself repeating to Bear are things I wanted to practice and felt uncomfortable expressing and here I am saying them so often each time he comes up with a new angle that I’m feeling bored and totally firm on what I want! Ok so the practice was worth it after all!

  38.  #38Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    @kyla that is well said… and that is what I’ve tried to convey recently… even though I’m working the tools etc.. the men that come though are doing extremely well with certain things.. just aren’t cutting it… I’m like you, I can’t get involved with situations that I know will drive me crazy or cause me to go backwards in my process… Exactly what I’ve been trying to say!!! Thanks so much for putting it so well!

    I just did Thework on I need a man… wow! this time ( and I’ve done this piece before) it went so much deeper like deep into the blackhole that this story has been going on in the minds of women for centuries! old! It’s like we are thought this story since birth from our mothers ( without them even saying it) and they from their mothers and on and on…

    I was breathing sooo deep with who would I be without this story… deep deep breathes….

    I couldn’t think of one reason other than kissing that I needed a man for… funny!

    and then the lady facilitating me said, I have a man and I still have that belief… and yes! the thought doesn’t go away just b/c we have one…

    Wow so enlightening to realize how I navigate my life b/c of that thought… amazing!

    What an incredibly powerful and enlightening day this has been for me…

    Love my process! just love it!!! The good the bad and the ugly… I love it all! b/c it always, always brings me back to bliss…


  39.  #39Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    @FeminineWomen LOL! I get that – the metrosexual male… 🙂


  40.  #40Amber on February 3, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Am I the only one who automatically says “no” if there is no profile picture on Match or similar sites? How lazy are you if you won’t take a selfie and upload it?
    I feel annoyed!

  41.  #41Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Amber No! I won’t talk to a stranger using a nickname through the weird and wonderful interwebs of online dating if he won’t post a photo. Nope, not interested in the reason, just no! **Shudders**

  42.  #42Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Kyla, These men just seem like a bunch of losers. I give them as little time as possible when they approach me, etc., or I let myself be entertained by them momentarily but don’t take them seriously at all. I just keep encountering these men over and over again. Just a bunch of goofballs. So so many goofballs, its mind-blowing. So I’m trying to be more picky about the events that I go to, places I go but they seem to be everywhere. I didn’t tell you all about the goofball that I met at the dance, one of many, the one who kept telling me how great I looked etc. Well, he went on and on and starts launching into a story about x and y chromosomes and how he’s very manly because he’s got two sons while his brother only has daughters (poor guy). And how if he and I were to have sex, how the x and y chromosomes would work etc. etc. I had just met the guy. Appalling. I think he thought he was being cute. And, yeah, he kept cutting me off too. They think they are god’s gift and I just walked away from him never wanting to interact with him again. Its amazing to me how clueless these men are!!! wow! I need to step it up and meet some nice, polite, respectful men. They have gotta be out there.

  43.  #43Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    @Amber NO! I won’t even reply… and I just told a guy who is trying to convenience me to go out with him even though every single photo has him with dark sunglasses on… NO!… I said in my feeling messages, that inside photos work well…


    LOL! it is kind of funny! that he is saying to me… I’d hope that there is more to me than my photos… ummmm yes, but you like my photos b/c you said they show I take care of myself and I’m fit… come on!!! double standard…

    sorry I just needed to vent…


  44.  #44Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    Thanks Lisa 34! I’m glad I’m not alone! 🙂

  45.  #45Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    Yes! my point they do think they are God’s gift… and yes it is appalling and I don’t give them much of my time and energy and even the ones that do go out of their way like “D” and “S” still like Kyla said.. I want the whole package…

    I think for me it is telling the universe NO! this isn’t even worth my time and energy I’d rather be home with a book and hot bath! Really!

    Send me men that are really worth my time and energy!!!

    The have to be out there – where are they?


  46.  #46Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Well I don’t know LL but for me I notice the more I get into CDing and practicing on everyone without judging them, but paying big attention on how I feel around them, the more the guys behavior patterns around me shift.

    Anywho after my revelation with Bear above I got a long ranty text from him including telling me its not him, its me! I felt relieved that I could let him go and said best wishes and now he’s blowing up my phone with calls and texts and voice messages demanding I answer so he can explain. Hmm no thank you, I’m feeling mighty bored of the drama and convincing and we’re done here.

  47.  #47Lisa on February 3, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    I feel so psyched that energized by tonight’s posts and my work and empowerment

    Wow ladies… I love this blog and I love this process…

    and just think how amazing the next generation of women will be! … Whoo hoo!!!

    I got carried away… blush!

  48.  #48Femininewoman on February 3, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    RE 46 – I like that Kyla. I wonder how women run down men in their minds, calling guys losers, I wonder how they expect to attract men with that going on on the inside of them,

    What’s wrong with a man who thinks he is God’s gift? That is a man with a big ego that a wise woman knows she can stroke to get her way with him. When you understand male psychology you look for ways to stay ahead of the game.

  49.  #49Millie on February 3, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    I’m replying to your comment to me on the previous thread, I’ll post this there also…

    I don’t remember saying that I feel it’s not ok to post about men that aren’t pursuing you. If you could let me know which post I alluded to that in, that would be helpful as I’m not sure what you are referring to. I would NEVER say that it’s not ok to write about ANY man. Write away!!! That is what we are all here for….to talk, and exchange our thoughts and feelings. I post all the time about men that aren’t pursuing me. I’m not sure what I said that led you to think I I wasn’t ok with that. Please share…..

  50.  #50Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    I’m looking back on my diary and Bear literally showed up when I was working on speeches and scripts around exclusivity, initiating and planning dates and that’s what nearly every interaction has been about since our 2nd date. And when similar moments have come up with DrWho, Golfer and Newbie I have been able to respond with such ease because I got through all the difficult practice with Bear. And tonight he’s given me an ultimatum and I thanked him and walked. I feel twilight zoney. I wonder what’s coming next.. I feel awed.

  51.  #51Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    FW 🙂

  52.  #52Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    I’m getting the message from men over and over that I “own them” and that I scare them, I have power over them, intimidate them, take up instant residence in their heads and could make them do anything. I feel confused if this is a good thing or bad thing.. I mean CDing wise it sounds like I’m doing something right but at the same time I feel uneasy, I feel anxious and squirmy when I hear it.

    I don’t want to feel scary and controlling to a man.. or want to attract a man who’s attracted to dominating women?? Am I afraid of feeling powerful?? Am I attracted to men who own me?? Everyone but DrWho has said it, go figure.

  53.  #53Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    I guess the issue for me is I don’t want their behavior to change, I’m just not into these guys so I don’t really care what they do. Not interested. But that’s just me. Clearly I have a lot less patience than a lot of other women on this blog do, and a lot of other women in general. Oh well, that’s just who I am and the way I choose to be. I have to trust my gut, and if I feel awful around someone that’s a good enough sign to me that I shouldn’t be around them. I’m not going to use my head to convince myself otherwise and sthat omehow there’s a prince under the green, gooey, gross exterior. Maybe that works for others here, but not for me.

  54.  #54Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    I wonder how women run down men in their minds, calling guys losers, I wonder how they expect to attract men with that going on on the inside of them,

    Wow, FW, who’s being judgmental now!!???

    I do a very good job of attracting men I’ll have you know, I’m just very, very picky and I want a high quality man.

  55.  #55Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Why are you running other women down, FW? I find that to be really discouraging. We are doing our best so I don’t think its productive to put each other down..


  56.  #56Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    LL its not so much getting the man to change but its shifting your vibe around whatever man is in front of you that makes the difference for me.. new and better men start to show up.. you shift some more and even better men show up.. that’s my take on it.

    Picky is awesome! I am very picky! lol

  57.  #57Kyla on February 3, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    Awww sweetie (((LiquidLight))) I feel sad seeing your sad little face!!!

  58.  #58Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Yeah, I feel like I’m being criticized here because I have high standards for myself. That’s all. I’m not going to bring myself down to cater to a disrespectful and poorly behaved man’s level and btw, it really feels like some here are pushing for taking crumbs/bad behavior from men??!!! Why? Kinda ironic since this whole blog was created to teach women how not take crumbs/bad behavior from men. Oh the irony!!!

  59.  #59Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    Yes, Kyla, my whole vibe changes when I’m around a man that is worthy.

  60.  #60Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 9:22 pm

    Thanks Kyla 57!

  61.  #61Cupcake on February 3, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    When I read a woman on here say something disparaging about men in general, I assume she’s just blowing off steam.

    Re: men with no photos on websites- I just assume they’re married. Either way, they’re saying “I won’t show you who I really am.”

    Doesn’t it just crack you up that hat = bald? ALWAYS?
    Like you’re not going to figure that out on the date?

  62.  #62Cupcake on February 3, 2014 at 9:49 pm


    I felt glad to hear about your square dancing, and honored if I contributed to your having a fun time!

  63.  #63Cupcake on February 3, 2014 at 9:51 pm


    Maybe you should start calling “Bear” “OverBearing”?

    Or “Bore”?

    Thanks for the hug re the food poisoning. It was not fun.

  64.  #64Cupcake on February 3, 2014 at 10:04 pm


    I’m already triggered by Valentine’s Day.

    Ironically, last year, I spent Valentine’s writing Lord Voldemort (who was at that time just a friend, a comrade in the trenches of online dating) a long letter about how much I hate Valentine’s day. I almost wish we’d skipped over the whole failed romance part. I mean, I’m glad he came here and I met him. But I miss the guy I used to write to. And the other one, the other comrade in the trenches who stopped writing back and then I found out he had DIED.

    Anyway, today I got really triggered, not about Valentine’s —

    I had to fill out a job application because I’m doing a temp job a couple days this week.

    I got to the Person To Contact In Case Of Emergency line.

    I always used to put my mom. She’s 89 now and there’s no way she could function as the point person in case of emergency. I sat there looking at the line and I was like– OMG. I don’t belong to anyone.

    Finally I put my sister because even if she doesn’t like me, I figured blood is thicker than water.

    The thing is, she lives out of the country half the year.

    I moved on to the next question and it was Alternate Person To Contact In Case Of Emergency.

    I put a cousin who’s number was in my phone.

    Let’s just hope there’s no emergency.

    Later, my exboyfriend from 25 years ago who is now like my brother called. I suppose I should give him a name. Okay, let’s call him the Millionaire, because he is.

    Anyway, he called because he’s given me a project to work on and we were discussing that. I told him about the job application and he said that in the future I can just use him as my Person To Contact In Case Of Emergency.

    So that made me feel better. A little.

    Anyway, I wanted to tell you guys about it because it’s like if I can tear these triggering things out of my heart/head, and pin them to this page, and you guys all see them and breathe on them with your loving, open hearts- then it feels like it takes the Scary out of them. Like my Pompeii-panic attack last night.

    Thanks for being there.

  65.  #65Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    Re: men with no photos on websites- I just assume they’re married. Either way, they’re saying “I won’t show you who I really am.”

    So interesting, I never thought of that but it totally makes sense! Wow, thanks for posting that Cupcake!

    People show you who they are (or aren’t) right from square one!

  66.  #66Liquid Light on February 3, 2014 at 10:30 pm

    yes, I have been blowing off steam, just have been feeling really frustrated about the men that I’ve been meeting. On the other hand, as Kyla says, there’s a message there and I don’t want to sweep it under the rug. And I don’t want to invalidate my feelings, my feelings are communicating to me loud and clear, I just keep ignoring them and beating my head against the wall and keep expecting different results. I need to up my ante and I’m about to do that. And that feels GOOD!

  67.  #67Indigo on February 3, 2014 at 11:09 pm

    Andrea 9,

    I had this conversation with B on Saturday night when he was taking me out for a beautiful dinner at a lovely restaurant – and he is the kind of guy who believes in chivalry, and he *loves* paying and treating a woman.

    And his brother is totally different. Even though he has loads of money, his brother will refuse to pay for a woman, believing that it makes the woman seem “entitled”. And his brother is single, and has been for most of his life. And as B and I were talking, we were discussing how this “not paying” is actually an excuse to keep women at a distance. Sure enough, his brother finds small and irrelevant reasons not to pursue things with a woman.

    And I was saying to B (which he actually does understand) that a woman requiring a man to pay has nothing to do with being entitled… It has everything to do with a man’s effort. Without effort and investment, we have no way of gauging a man’s true interest in us. Talk is cheap, and deep down we know that it is what a man “does” for us that counts.

  68.  #68Indigo on February 3, 2014 at 11:55 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Ouch. I cringed as I read the names you are calling these guys.

    Could it be a relfection of something going on inside of you? What is the message for you here?

    Is it necessary to be harsh and judge, or could you simply walk away?

    I don’t mean to trigger you and be hard on you, and perhaps it is my own belief, but I believe a Siren is most attractive when she is gracious and kind…


  69.  #69Femininewoman on February 4, 2014 at 2:40 am

    Hi Cupcake. I feel triggered at the “belong” to someone suggestion all the time. Even if my mother suggests I belong to her I feel triggered. I like being with someone and I also like the idea of flying free like a bird, like a free spirit when I want to. In my mind belong feels too restrictive. At least that’s my story. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to shine a light on that.

  70.  #70Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 3:59 am

    So this is why I think I don’t want to even try to get my ex back… because everything I’ve ever seen shows that…

    A man who has left you, is a man who will leave you.

    Once they leave, and get away with it; or cheat, and get away with it… they’ll do it whenever they want from that point on.

    What happens if I get laid off? He’ll leave. What happens if K becomes ill, is in an accident, gets paralyzed, or whatever and needs me there to care for her? He’ll leave. What happens if he decides he’s not getting his way again? He’ll leave.

    A man who has left is a man who will leave. A man who has cheated is a man who will cheat.

    I can never feel safe, secure, or confident with this man again. Ever. I cannot ever trust a man who has abandoned me.

  71.  #71Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 4:05 am

    Cupcake, I completely understand about the “person to contact in an emergency”. I use to just have to write, “911” because I was a state ward, and there literally was and still is, no one.

    Now I feel obligated to put down my ex, because he’s my daughter’s father. But it’s worse in its own way… yay, I get to put down the person who’ll dance in the street if I’m dead. Goody?

    Having no one feels awful. A place to belong would be a beautiful thing, and I think that people who have it almost never really appreciate it.

  72.  #72Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 5:15 am

    FW, 69 (oh dear, it sounds like a crass invitation :p )

    I think there’s a big difference between ‘belong to’, and ‘belong with’.

    I had a very violent ex-husband who saw me as his property and he told me that “MY WIFE” would not do this, that, or the other. And he stated very clearly and succinctly, “I don’t abuse you, because I’ve never hit you.” (He choked me, slammed me against walls, etc. etc… but he’s right, he never HIT me… *rolls eyes*)

    So there is a vast gulf between being property, and a sense of belonging with someone; be they family, friends, or otherwise.

    A person who hasn’t experienced or hasn’t been around a lot of women who have experienced “ownership” deviance in men might not understand why the distinction between ‘belong with’ and ‘belong to’ is not subtle in any way, shape, or form.

  73.  #73akasha on February 4, 2014 at 5:18 am

    I am going to chime back in tonight hopefully but I just wanted to say to Waterfall, when you wrote:

    “For me staying in feminine energy is incredibly hard. I want to control everything and to give my opinion on everything.

    I find it very hard to be truly playful and feminine.

    Does that make sense?”

    I sooo understand what you are saying. I never knew this about myself but I am a big fat control freak. At least we know what our problem is? I found out that I feel more playful and feminine when I wear red lipstick. So now, I intentionally wear it whenever I feel the masculine energy surge inside of me. Perhaps you need to find the little things that make you feel fluffy and feminine and just do those more often?

  74.  #74T.Bradley on February 4, 2014 at 5:35 am

    Your post about being abandoned is so true. I most of the days look at it like “if he left w/o us having any problems he will do it again. At my age now I do need to feel secure in my relationship. The only explanation he ever had was I just cant get past the PAST!!!! Dont always tell me I need to let the past go but you(he”) still living in the past. I just dont want him to think its gonna be ok for him to come back after he fininsh throwing his tantrum.

  75.  #75BeLoved on February 4, 2014 at 6:48 am

    This morning I felt a soft patter of sadness fleeting across my heart.

    A previously unconscious desire that my mother would someday see me as a woman, an adult, would be empowering surfaced and I felt acceptance of the possibility this will never be.
    I feel infantilized and that’s an interesting trigger to dive into.
    I feel sadness.
    I feel nauseous, invaded, violated..
    feels like dissonance
    feels like force, like a dark whole around my heart and creepy fingers trying to sneak, force their way in and steal something from my insides, from my vulnerable places.
    I had my curly hair blown out straight yesterday and my mom kept going on and on about how “cute” I was and how I looked 12 years old (I’m 43) and I felt like vomiting.
    I felt rejecting, combative, angry.
    Something says I am rejecting my mothers’ love and something else says, it doesn’t feel like love it feels like twisting, shaping, bending, wanting me to be “other…
    is this about self-image?
    What is going on with this?
    It touches a rage and feelings of hate.
    I need to sit with this and sink into these feelings.

    I spent a couple of days traveling with my mother this week and I felt astounded at how much she reminded me of my ex. I marveled – haha, all those “daddy” issues with my ex were really “mommy” issues. Rich.
    I feel nauseous again.

    Gonna go tap on this.

  76.  #76cupcake on February 4, 2014 at 6:56 am

    #49 FW

    Interesting… It sounds like you hear “belong” in an ownership sense, and that never even occurred to me.

    To me its about having a natural and rightful place. Like cleaning your house, a certain book belongs on a certain shelf, with a set of other books in the same series.

    It’s interesting to see how words mean different things to people.

    I don’t even perceive that my dog “belongs” to me in an ownership sense. Just that he belongs to me, ormaybe belongs with me is a better way to phrase it, because I love him and want him to be taken care of, and we are a team. (He is not here with me now because my mom got really attached to him, and I really miss him.)

  77.  #77Femininewoman on February 4, 2014 at 7:15 am

    Beloved I feel so resonant with your words. Good to read you, been a long while.

  78.  #78Femininewoman on February 4, 2014 at 7:16 am

    Yeah cupcake. I guess I really don’t want to be owned.

  79.  #79Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 7:34 am

    I’m listening to some beautiful Opera right now. Fantastic male voices giving me warm shivers.

    Paul Potts is the modern Pavarotti, if I can be so bold. A deeply, genuinely male voice just singing… singing… beautiful to just bask in.

    I don’t understand the Italian, and I kind of like that. It leaves me free to just hear the music and to hear a man singing to me without my head repeating the lyrics in an outgoing fashion.

    This is my way of loving myself this morning after I had a nice pleasant bath to love myself!

  80.  #80Nermo on February 4, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Wow Rori– this is quiet a challenge for me. I can’t sex before marriage (this has been the custom in my country) and this is quiet understandable among guys and girls here in my country-having sex without marriage is an exception, and oral sex has been more or less the way to experience physical intimacy.

    I really enjoy oral sex, and i also feel that blow job can be a very intimate experience, if performed in the right circumstances. How could I differentiate between servicing and mutual pleasure, given that me and my date cannot have sex?
    I would love to hear from other Sirens their views and experiences.

  81.  #81Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Nessun Dorma in English (a beautiful song that Paul Potts sings):

    Nobody shall sleep!…
    Nobody shall sleep!
    Even you, o Princess,
    in your cold room,
    watch the stars,
    that tremble with love and with hope.
    But my secret is hidden within me,
    my name no one shall know…
    On your mouth I will tell it when the light shines.
    And my kiss will dissolve the silence that makes you mine!…
    (No one will know his name and we must, alas, die.)
    Vanish, o night!
    Set, stars! Set, stars!
    At dawn, I will win! I will win! I will win!

  82.  #82Indigo on February 4, 2014 at 7:46 am

    Nermo 80,

    I’m sure the difference is in how you feel about it.

    Is your energy flowing away from you, ie. are you giving to him? Or are you receiving pleasure as much or more than you are giving it?

    For me, the key is being in touch with how I feel, whether I feel “filled up” or depleted.

  83.  #83Dominique on February 4, 2014 at 7:51 am

    Nermo – If you’re having a lovely, mutual exchange, and YOU feel good in the receiving area as well as the giving area, then all is well. It comes down to you, bringing things back to you (one of the big lessons encourage learning )which doesn’t always mean in a lesson to learn kind of way. It can also mean in how YOU feel, and when you feel good and are not expecting anything or carrying an agenda, then you are in a good place with this.


  84.  #84BeLoved on February 4, 2014 at 8:07 am

    FW – 77
    thank you, I feel warm and soft at feeling acknowledged 🙂

    What’s coming up when I feel into it, is feelings of dependency.
    Ick ick.
    As if..her happiness is dependent on my appearance.
    I feel hate for the thought of pleasing her with my appearance.
    This is an old battle 🙂
    When I was young, she would put me on liquid diets and try to bribe me with new school clothes if I would lose “2 rolls of fat” before school started.
    My adult mind “knows” it was about her – she felt incredibly ugly and to this day she says yuck when she looks in the mirror.
    Still, this feels like an internal battle.
    I’ve been doing EFT for weight loss every day for a few days now, releasing old stuff.
    This is sort of where I have felt stuck in the past.

    I feel like, if I lose weight (and I have in the past, been very fit and lean and the same feelings came up), if I look the way she wants me to look and is happy,
    then SHE WINS.
    And I lose.
    I feel sick at the thought of gaining her approval by looking the way she wants me to look (although, I want to look good, too!).

    So, first thing is to acknowledge the struggle.
    I feel struggle.
    This is also a pattern that has come up for me often, recently – first reflected in feelings for an ex then moving on to being triggered by my mom.
    Does her happiness take away from me?
    It’s as if, I can’t stand for both of us to be happy.
    I feel it’s as if someone has to win, and someone has to lose.

    I don’t feel there’s anything to be done about it right this moment – I have a daily Metta (lovingkindness) practice to develop other feelings and this pattern is feeling like an old friend.
    Oh, hi! Feelings of ick around dependency and power and struggle! You again! (laughing).
    Pull up a chair, have some tea! (this makes my heart feel soft and tears come to my eyes).

  85.  #85BeLoved on February 4, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Haha oh wow, that really did the trick, I’m laughing and crying and feeling relief and smiley…
    okay gonna sign off and sink into the acceptinglaughterjoyful feelings 🙂

  86.  #86Hana on February 4, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Andrea- I am so impressed by the interaction you had with going dutch guy, you know what you want and who you are and you deserve it.

    I have an update from Hairy guy, remember the man who I was crushing on who was going through a divorce? I was scared to get close to him, fearing I would be the rebound. No worries, he doesn’t seem to be attracted to me he has taken the bff approach. We are quite close and we hang out a lot with our kids, and sometimes on our own. I’m dating other men, and I do find him very irresistably attractive, but I feel super comfortable with him and don’t find myself getting jealous when he speaks about other women, I suppose because he doesn’t seem to be going anywhere serious, and the woman that he was seeing is obviosly not aware of the siren ways yet hehe. Anyway, here’s the thoughts and concerns I have over this relationship. We are like “when harry met sally” or rather when Amir met Hana, and Hana didn’t want anything serious with him, they became bffs, and also fwb (friends with benefits) then Amir got fed up from hearing about Hana’s men, and finally left. Then Hana realized she was completly in love with Amir, but it was way, way too late. However, I am only comparing this to the current relationship(friendship) I have with Hairy guy let’s call him the Lion because I am afraid of what I may be expecting, now it doesn’t seem to be terrible being such close friends with him, and his baby daughter and I are totally in love with each other(she’s ADORABLE), but I don’t want to presume that he will one day when the stress of the divorce let’s realize that he is and always was madly in love with me haha! Anyway, not to sound so dramatic, I am in no way saying I am hoping against all hopes, because I have more sense than that, but I see him as husband material and he and I spend such real time together with our family’s and it always feels amazingly comfortable, that there is a chance for him to be the Hana in the Hana and Amir saga? Dare I say it, see me as iressistably desirable?

    Sigh, don’t know…just some thoughts?

  87.  #87Hana on February 4, 2014 at 10:46 am

    Oooh, I forgot to mention, that I am seeing one guy, and since I’ve been dating him the Lion has been asking me a lot about him and also finding funny nicknames for him. He asks about how we’ve progressed and such…. I guess that’s what friends do, but I’m hoping that he’s feeling a bit competitive!

  88.  #88Iris on February 4, 2014 at 10:56 am

    I am so glad Rori posted this. Ever since I started leaning back in my relationships, and reading this blog, I was curious on how much to give sexually.

    Every time I had ever given a blow job, the man ALWAYS asked if he can pleasure me simultaneously as I was pleasuring him. I guess they must sense the shift of energy, and they want to partcipate and give, and when I’m giving a blow job in a servicing kind of position, they can feel that.

  89.  #89Hana on February 4, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    I wrote a long comment and it didn’t get published.

    Andrea you rock! I loved reading about going Dutch guy! I kept thinking ewww!
    But I’m so impressed by how you spoke with him.

  90.  #90Hana on February 4, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    News on hairy guy, lets call him the lion!

    He has taken to me and I have taken to him! But he has taken the off approach. I don’t think he is attracted to me. We get along like Harry met Sally, and Spenser loads of time together With our kids, it feels natural and comfortable.

  91.  #91Hana on February 4, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Not off I mean bff! Haha

  92.  #92Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    @Indigo I understand what your saying it all comes back to ourselves – I get that…

    I also feel venting is good and healthy! and I thought it was to be done with women and on this blog… ??
    because I feel in my experience-the duality of it is when we decide it is good or bad.. siren-y or not siren-y. to vent and have harsh judgements… I don’t believe being siren-y is always being gracious…and soft and gentle….I feel in my experience Men get tired of always having us to be treated as, soft and gentle…they like a woman that has different facets to her and nothing wrong with a woman that is feisty now and then, they love it!! -a women that is real and has judgements just like everyone else… otherwise they feel that she is too perfect ( men tell me this)… This is why Alpha men cheat b/c they get tired of always being the strong one, always making the decisions and always having her be soft and gentle…… this is my experience. I’ve heard men tell me all this!

    I don’t know! just my 2 cents….

    Men tell me how wonderful it is that I have a soft side and very feminine side – a playful – feisty side too… and I do guy stuff… as long as I go back to being all melty and feminine too — they love it!!!!

    I’m strong and independent but I can also step aside and let him lead and be soft and melty too!

    For me and this is just me and who I am… being soft and gracious and melty all the time – feels like I’m boxing myself up into a mold that feels like a prison… I’m not willing to do that…

    I guess maybe I have mis interpreted the tools then b/c all this time I thought it wasn’t about being soft all the time, it was to be ourselves! completely and also know when to allow him to lead and be soft and melt in bed… I never though the RR system was about being soft and gracious all the time… if that is the case, I can’t do that…


  93.  #93Femininewoman on February 4, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Hi Hana great to read you again.

  94.  #94Amber on February 4, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Is anyone else connecting to Helena’s teleclass? I’m so excited!

  95.  #95April Rose on February 4, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    Oh Sirens,

    I feel blank. Like I haven’t ever done one day of siren school!

    I’ve been away from WM for 5 days, working, and will go back tomorrow.
    Thing is I felt so weird on the phone tonight when he was asking me when I’m coming back. I couldn’t explain the bubble of weirdness in my stomach.

    I know he loves me. He even said he misses me.

    I somehow feel dread. There are elements of our dynamic that are not what I want. I’d even say they’d be dealbreakers if I was just dating. I’d say ‘next’!

    I keep desperately thinking that I surely have some kind of leverage, because there is distance between us, and because I am going back, and because he likes having me around, and so therefore I can negotiate from this relative position of power. (Although that brings up shades of ultimatum.)

    Of course I can say “I feel reluctant to come back to what feels like a lukewarm romance” No, that’s not right.

    oh dear, I can’t think of a single feeling message script.
    I don’t even recognise the feeling.

    Guess I’ve just gotta sink into it, instead of looking for that quick fix.

  96.  #96April Rose on February 4, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Wow, I’ve just seen how I use feeling messages as a way to try and get what I want.

    Okay, I’ll be prepared to negotiate, instead of demand.

    And for the moment there’s nothing to do but feel. Aaaaaaghhhh, oooooooogggggghhhh, mmmmm.
    No, April, that’s just making a lot of noise and pretending. Get in the bathtub and drop those thoughts into your pelvis, and feel, girl.

  97.  #97Femininewoman on February 4, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    Lisa I am reading your comment and keep being taken back to a particular couple I have known for years. Her husband is the typical alpha leader of the pack. He will even bark orders when he is in his leader mode. She is the softest sweetest gentlest ladylike lady you can imagine. I have seen her get angry as in really angry and while she is sassy she remained soft and sweet telling him off even with him begging her to forgive him. This is just one of many examples of couples and situations I have experienced with alpha men and very feminine women. I guess the dynamics might be a bit different when these guys get married but any guy who told me what you are saying they told I would tell them it sounds like horsecrap to me. That is the reason they cheat? Really? Sounds to me like someone making up an excuse to soothe their guilty conscience. I would them a man with any kind of honor and respect for himself knows that his relationship with his woman is his pride and joy so he would never cheat on her. He prides himself in being her man and taking care of her not cheat on her and then turn around and gloat about it. These guys need to be taken off their alpha pedestal and told quite sweetly that you save the space between your ears for the old fashioned type of chivalrous men who hold themselves up to certain standards.

  98.  #98April Rose on February 4, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Just got this from James Bauer

    “”Is there hope for my relationship?”

    That’s probably the most common question I get on my blog.

    The question usually come after a few comments about what’s right with the relationship and a few about what’s wrong.

    Usually they’re about what the man is doing wrong… the things he does to hurt her, whether on purpose or due to bad habits or insensitivity.

    I typically don’t have much information to go on in these scenarios, so you might think I’d be hesitant to provide a response.

    But there’s really only one thing I need to know to say (in my humble opinion) if the relationship is worth repairing.

    It’s the same thing I need to know when I have tons of
    information in an individual consultation with a private client who has told me all about her relationship.

    I start by telling her I’d prefer to provide her with the
    support and insight she needs to make the decision herself.

    However, if she presses me for my personal opinion, there’s one single factor that trumps everything else.

    What is that one factor?

    His intentions.

    If his intention is to love her to the best of his ability, I
    encourage her to stay…even if he sometimes does thoughtless things…

    or struggles to stay employed…

    or fails to be romantic on Valentine’s Day…

    or clams up when she is trying to learn about his inner world.


    Because a man with the true intention to love you to the best of his ability is a man who can learn to overcome these shortcomings.

    His life, his world, his habits, and his way of treating you can be changed if you have that one motivating factor working in favor of the relationship’s future.”

  99.  #99Zia on February 4, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    hello everyone!
    so yesterday this guy i’ve started seeing (lets call him M) actually mentioned to me that he was thinking of not renewing his online dating subscription and asked me what i thought.
    wow. i actually said i dont mind either way and it’s entirely up to him (because i honestly don’t, it’s still early days and i have no problems with him still seeing whats out there)
    but – it felt so nice to be considered, and for him to ask me what i thought on the matter. this guy is so very different to all my ex’s!

  100.  #100cupcake on February 4, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Hi, Amber – I plan to call in for Helena’s thing tonight.
    See you there! Sort of….

  101.  #101Kyla on February 4, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Me too, Amber and Cupcake 🙂

  102.  #102Amber on February 4, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    Hi Sirens!
    So yesterday I leaned forward a teensie bit and text (T) re: what happened on Friday night that caused me to blow up the blog. I leaned forward A LOT that night, (darned wine) and he got a bit snippy with me. He later apologized but I didn’t hear anything more. I text him yesterday, “I feel sad, I feel punished.” I honestly didn’t expect a response. He’s a “rubber-band man” and usually takes him days to ‘bounce back.’ But he text me right away saying, “I’m sorry if I have anything to do with that feeling.” I replied, “I feel like I caused an annoyance and now something is broken in our relationship.” He invited me over to talk.
    He told me flat out that he wants to be the only man in my life. I told him that would feel great. In order for me to make him the only man in his life I would have to be the only woman in his life.
    Has anyone else given the exclusivity speech and had a man reply, “Well, that’s not going to happen.”
    I am so proud of myself! I set up a boundary and I stuck to it. I’ve never been able to do that with (T) before! I simply replied, “okay.” and left it at that. I think it’s the first time EVER in our relationship that I didn’t give in to the urge to convince and/or explain. So nothing will change for now. We will continue as things are, which for now, is fine with me. It’s absolutely imperative for my emotional well-being that HE makes this decision.
    I left his house with a HUGE grin on my face because I followed all 4 rules perfectly. 1) I trusted my boundaries, 2) I followed my feelings, 3) I stopped before I tried to convince, warn ask the innocent question, etc. 4) I accepted his no without trying to change his mind!
    YAY ME!

  103.  #103Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    @FeminineWoman #95 first you missed my point. And though I know that written text lack voice tone and body language.. it can be misconstrued.. I didn’t hear that part from men that I heard from an expert in relationships…and to be fair that doesn’t excuse it – no one said it did and doesn’t mean all alpha men are cheaters…

    and the point is a woman feminine doesn’t always have to be soft… feminine is a broad term very vague at most.. and relative to anyone’s definition… I can be and I AM feminine really feminine!!! and I also can be feisty and fun and playful and do guy things.. I rappelled off of a 350 ft cliff, I rock climb, I ride motorcycles. and I can dress up and I’m the most feminine woman … and that is who I really am! I’m all of it!

    and it’s your opinion that is is horse crap… that is your judgement… doesn’t mean it is a fact…

    Now anyone else can feel that being feminine is always soft and gracious and remember that even Lady Diana had her feisty parts and her fly fishing parts… shooting guns.. just like I do… and I bet anyone wouldn’t call her un-feminine…

    I think we are putting women in a box here and that feels so judg-y and harsh and generalized and icky!

    I can concur on the fact that men get tired of always being in charge and control… ( cheating out of the picture) and this is why sometimes it is good to give you man a treat and do the deciding and planning.. etc.. but this is a whole another conversation…

    Doesn’t mean that the primary in the relationship of masculine isn’t the man and the primary in the relationship of feminine isn’t the woman… it just means that we all need variety! that is a human need….

    That was my point….. and it was taken way out of context…

    Had nothing to do with standards….

  104.  #104Shannon on February 4, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Rori says, in Modern Siren, that if you’re really a rock star, and you’re very Sireny, you can do whatever you want. And that if you’re especially Sireny in a certain area (like, for example, jumping out of airplanes), you can do anything.

    Because it’s about thinking of yourself as the Prize and managing to stay in receptive mode when you do these “anythings”.

    So Lisa, I salute you, you sound like a Rock Star to me! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  105.  #105Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    @Shannon #102 Thanks that feels good to hear! I feel heard and understood! <3 <3

    I really like the well rounded me… I like be boyish sometimes and ultra feminine in other ways… 🙂

  106.  #106Dominique on February 4, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Lisa – 90 – Yes you’re right in this, to be yourself, the REAL you, not the one covered over with walls and curtains hiding fears and traumas which can come out in all kinds of not good for you ways.

    So yes feistiness and even anger are all good. You do want to stay away from blaming and making wrong though. As long as it’s about you and how YOU feel and not him and what he is or isn’t doing. ALL of your emotions are to be embraced.


  107.  #107Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    @Dominique #104 <3 <3 🙂 Thanks!

    Absolutely stay away from blaming and making wrong as with anyone really if a person is being responsible with their own inner work… even with children.. really …in my opinion…


  108.  #108Tereana on February 4, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    Millie: Bit of a delayed response. On the last thread, you wondered which entry I was referring to when I responded about sharing our feelings regarding men who aren’t (actively) pursuing us.

    This is the post from two threads back:

    116: Millie says:

    What you ladies think about this…..about sharing how you feel about a man when he isn’t pursuing you? I’ve been thinking about this…and I think saying you have feelings for a man or telling a man you LIKE a man more than a friend when he isn’t pursuing you is kind of like taking yourself out of the game…It’s like having a celebrity crush sort of…..You can lust and like and want a celebrity but they haven’t done anything to win your affection. I’m thinking that telling a friend you LIKE them is along the same lines….He hasn’t DONE anything to win your feelings, so wouldn’t it be like putting the cart before the horse to feel that? If we are talking about level of difficulty…shouldn’t your feelings grow in relation to what a man does for you and how he makes you feel in the process? If he’s not doing anything, then sharing your feelings would be leaning forward? Right? I’m just processing….I’m considering telling someone I like them as more than a friend. Although if I want to be pursued, then would that be taking the chase out? Not there really is a chase happening, but I’m just wondering.

  109.  #109Tereana on February 4, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    And actually, Millie, now that I post that, I realize there were a couple of things that I missed. I got really caught up in the idea of having feelings for someone not pursuing you.

    You were wondering if you should share having feelings for someone as more than a friend. I can say that I’ve done that a bunch! Okay, I can count them all on one hand. But it feels like a “bunch” to me. Basically, I figure, if I have feelings, then no one else can say it but me.

    On the other side of that is, Is it effective? I’m not so sure that it is. People usually *appreciate* that I have feelings for them. They might feel honored, or something. But I can’t think of one time that I’ve confessed to someone that I had feelings for them and that they reciprocated at the same time.

    My take is that if you feel a need to say it, it might not be the right time, for you or for him. Doesn’t mean you can’t have the feelings. And it doesn’t mean you can’t say it, either. I just feel like that works great for romantic movie scripts, but it doesn’t necessarily fly in real life…that’s all : )

    What did you decide about it?

  110.  #110Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    @April Rose…. I really like that by James Bauer
    and I totally agree! I would love, love, love to find a man that was that way… and I’m just not right now… if he loves me to the end of the earth and his intent is to always do his best in the relationship ( aside from him grossing me out and I just can’t kiss him-there has to be some sort of attraction or at least no repulsion) I would be there!!! turned on! and loving it…


  111.  #111Tereana on February 4, 2014 at 6:38 pm

    It is like they always say (I always say), when it rains it pours! Sort of like a gentle snowstorm, at the moment (there can be a gentle snowstorm? I decide there can)

    All these fluffy man-flakes (in a good way) are swirling about me.

    And I am just standing here, watching them. catching them on my tongue…well, sort of. Not literally atm.

    I am feeling more calm and centered about myself. I am judging less. I am feeling more creative. I am noticing what I’m doing and how i feel.

    And today, I had the most wonderful thought. I thought about this guy from Cali who contacted me over the weekend. I know he’s always felt something for me. And I feel light. It just occurred to me (thinking about him, but it could be anyone), I am who I am, right now. “Who I am” is not going to change, dependent on someone else loving me. In fact, love me or not love me, I am the same person. It wasn’t like a defiant thought at all, it was just logical, like of course. The air is the same. The ground is the same. The people all around are the same. He could decide tomorrow, “I want her to be my girlfriend.” He could decide to be my boyfriend. He could DECIDE that. And I would still be the same person.

    It was a mind-blowing thought, in a very calm way. I think it’s possible I’ve always assumed that love would somehow “transform” me into this magical person that I am not yet, and that is my only shot at “true life” or something. yet that is a fairy-tale version of love. The true life is the one I am living right now. the one which includes love, in all its different forms. The one in which I AM love, and all that is around me is love, too. It is not a thing that really comes and goes. It is always present and there for the noticing.

    I know, very Zen. But honestly, I’m not trying to be all like a mediation about this. It wasn’t like I reached an enlightened state. But now I think I know that is about, just a little bit. I got a little bit closer to just, “Hey, I’m here.” Instead of feeling like there is a need to fight for something. LIke my little piece of ground might be taken away.

    I felt less power struggle. And this: I felt, almost like a peeling apart of two sticky things, that I mentally separated love from attention. I realized, quite clearly, how I had merged the two, and how I’ve really been starved for attention and craving attention, believing it to be love. And then once I separated those two, I felt very relaxed. And I realized it didn’t matter if I had attention or not. I already was “in” love. It was all around.

    And then I saw the nifty guy on the train who is my occasional riding buddy. I’m not sure, but I think we are nearly the same age. He has a “real-life” job, and he’s very smart, but not pompous about it at all. He told me the story of how he got his dog, and it was just so wonderful. I don’t even know where to start. Then I got home, and I got a message from another guy I’ve met recently.

    I will say this, these two particular guys – I did make the move to talk to them first. But with the train guy, I asked for help – my bag really was caught on my coat and I couldn’t reach it. And the other guy, well, it was a shot in the dark, but he was really receptive to talking to me, and he gave me a cookie : )

    So anyway. I am just feeling pleasant, because I am still mainly concentrating on my own life. I’m wondering how much I want to change, what steps I want to take, what I REALLY want to do. It’s “go time,” and also, take a step back and reevaluate *everything* time. And see what I can change. I am learning from my experience, and most importantly, not judging (myself, which means also not other people).

    It’s a new feeling, and I must say, I like it…I think I’ll keep it.

  112.  #112Lisa on February 4, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    @Tereana 🙂 makes me smile! Happy for you! <3

    listening to Helana's phone call..

    I'm finding my blocks…

    I get all open and vulnerable men start coming at me – lots of them and it gets overwhelming and tiring ( lost sleep etc) and I shut down…

    she talked about it in the call… I also have fear of having to hurt me or turn them down…

    I know the cure it to be 100% open and vulnerable to all men and accept their love…that just feels impossible to me right now…I'm working on it…

    If too many men start coming at me… it feels stressful… I want it and I like it but there is the and the overwhelm…factor… don't know the cure there…

    funny how "J" texted me today and said I thought about you today… Its been awhile since i've heard from him….

    I love how Helena said if you just can't kiss him- let him go… yes, I have had to do that… if the kiss just repulses me… I won't make myself do it… "G" is that way… I just can't imagine it…yuk..


  113.  #113Kit on February 4, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    Great call with Helena Hart today. I thought she would be good because she’s a student of Rori Raye. But she was more than good. She was great.

    Worthy student of Rori Raye. I wonder if Rori calls her ‘Grasshopper’ 🙂

  114.  #114LoveAlways on February 4, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    Helena’s teleclass was great!

  115.  #115Domenica Gran on February 4, 2014 at 7:53 pm

    I like this site very much so much superb info.

  116.  #116Amber on February 4, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    I loved Helena’s teleclass!
    Shout out to Shannon for being brave enough to go deeper into her issue at the end. That was awesome, and it was so cool to put a voice to your name!

    Cheers to us, Sirens!

  117.  #117Liquid Light on February 4, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Yeah, I hear you, Lisa. I don’t really like the feeling I get from some people here that its not OK to express yourself in certain ways here. Like there are rules about how you should and shouldn’t express yourself here. That to me is ridiculous and if what I’ve written offends others here (astonishing to me) then don’t read it. Btw, I make it a point to be supportive and encouraging here when a siren is being particularily seriny, brave, is getting great results, or is just doing something that I find to be inspiring/fun. I think that we all need positive reinforcement, not negative, I try to do that here.

    PS: for what its worth, I try to be respectful and polite even with men that I think qualify as “losers”. And a loser to me is someone who doesn’t treat others in a polite and respectful way especially me.
    PPS: I thought we were trying to be authentic here, that means the good, the bad and the ugly otherwise we are just being good, little, sweet automaton girls that men walk all over, treat poorly, don’t value, and… we are back to square one.

  118.  #118Helena Hart on February 4, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Thanks to everyone who showed up to the teleclass! It felt great to connect with all of you, you’re all so amazing!!

    Love, Helena

  119.  #119Liquid Light on February 4, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Indigo 68 I don’t care about being attractive to these rude, poor behaving men, that’s my point. I WANT to repel them. I”m not rude to them btw, and I do just as you say, walk away. You seemed to have jumped to a conclusion that I’m rude to them, maybe I don’t have much patience to deal with them but I’m not rude to them. Just fyi.

  120.  #120Amber on February 4, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Thanks so much, Helena! I can’t wait for the details on next weeks class!

  121.  #121Rori Raye on February 4, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    Kit – Thank you – I call Helena Hart “Superstar”! Love, Rori

  122.  #122Syreena on February 4, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Liquid light and Lisa, I wanted to share I remember reading recently that carrying on engaging with people who it didn’t feel good to engage with and was causing us stress was playing a part in creating an unhealthy attachment and relationship with them and unless it was to resolve the conflict it was creating a harmful attachment. One which you may not really want to form and be part of.
    So the best thing to do if one had come to the conclusion that no attachment or relationship was wanted as it didn’t serve us and was bad for us on many levels was to not respond and seize all communication. Sometimes conflicts help us grow and can get resolved and other times this is not the case and conflict just escalates and escalates with no resolution. And sometimes the conflict and lesson is there to teach us that loving and taking care of ourselves would be to disengage.

  123.  #123Millie on February 4, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    Tereana–did you see my response to you?

    Aww I wish I could have been in on the teleclass!!! I didn’t think I was a fearful person, but I guess I am afraid of intimacy…ewl I don’t like how it feels to say that…I don’t want to be afraid of anything!

    Some interesting events happened this week…and always I look back to see where I could have connected using a feeling message…I wonder if I’m so disconnected in the moment that feeling messages don’t occur to me???

    For example, I saw my ex-boyfriend. And let me tell you….it was a sad state. In case I’d been curious to know what I was missing…ladies…I’m certainly not missing anything. I wanted to leave right away, but I didn’t. Truthfully, I care about him and I didn’t want to hurt his feelings….he was in the worst state I’ve ever seen him in. I was curious to see him and talk to him, but in his presence I felt like….wow, he seems really lonely, broken, and kind of desperate. Desperate to feel good maybe? Sitting in front of him I quickly realized I want nothing from this man anymore. I’m no longer in love, nor do I feel love for this man. I care about him yes, but I feel bored and I want to leave. I’d been wanting to talk to him, to share my life, but once I was faced with the opportunity I didn’t care what he had to say about my life. His opinion of me doesn’t matter anymore. That feels new. I feel smarter than him, I feel further along in my life now…I am no longer looking up to him, I am looking down. I feel bad for him, but I did walk out the door as I heard him say under his breath..don’t go. I felt happy to leave, happy to wake up in my own bed, happy I did that for myself. I don’t want to see him broken. Anyways….that was interesting.

  124.  #124Syreena on February 4, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    Also Liquid Light, one of seven signs that someone was wanting to keep you engaged and was an indicator of wanting to control you in some way was to make a slight insult so you would engage to try and refute it.

  125.  #125Indigo on February 4, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    Hi Lisa,

    Yes I take your point totally and agree with you, and I think you sound great!

    I didn’t mention anything in my post about always being soft… being kind is something very different!

    Gracious is not soft either…

    Love xx

  126.  #126Indigo on February 4, 2014 at 11:45 pm

    Liquid Light,

    My point went to the names you were using… nothing more. I didn’t jump to any conclusions about how you are with these men, and I understand totally that you don’t want to attract them!

    If I am unkind to others in my thoughts, it makes me want to shine a light on what that message is for me…

    My point really had nothing to do with inauthenticity or boxing people in… quite the contrary… it was just a reminder, for myself as much as for anyone, to be open and curious and kind about others, and their message for us, and this has nothing to do with accepting poor treatment.

    Dominique has a wonderful article about venting, perhaps she would be kind enough to post it.

    Love xx

  127.  #127Femininewoman on February 5, 2014 at 4:25 am

    Yeah Lisa all I really grabbed on to is the alpha male and cheating connection. I guess I am sick of listening to some of these guys brag about women that they did even while married. Recently one of those resurfaced after how many months. I just softly stated nope my ears aren’t open to receive that garbage anymore.

  128.  #128Femininewoman on February 5, 2014 at 4:29 am

    I miss Daria. I feel so happy that she inspired me to pay attention to when I am running down people even in my mind because people feel it in your vibe when you think of them as jerks or losers. Even if they are, I don’t want the energy of those words floating around in my internal space. Let someone else tell them.

  129.  #129Syreena on February 5, 2014 at 5:00 am

    Lisa, well done sticking to your NO. That is the biggest indicator and red flag that someone is trying to control you there is if someone doesn’t accept your NO and tries to get you to change your mind. Huge red flag that you need to get away from them but if you can’t, the advice by top expert on violent behavior in America in keeping yourself safe is to forget about being polite and insist I said NO. And to never ever give in and change your mind once you have said no on something.

  130.  #130Shannon on February 5, 2014 at 5:01 am

    I really got so much out of Helena’s call.

    It felt so good to hear her say that, if you can’t kiss them by the third date, it’s fine to send them on their way. Also when she said that if you feel actively turned off by someone on a gut level, that it’s okay to say ‘no, thanks’. I have kind of felt like I just have to accept and “yes” every man that comes into my space and have felt guilty not accepting every overture… so it feels like great relief to feel supported in my decisions to not date some men.

    Also I feel I need to explore whether I was hiding some expectations behind “being nice”, and it feels good to have a sense of direction. It does feel very rude to me to ignore him, but then again, it doesn’t seem to feel rude to HIM to ignore ME.

    I feel ready to let that go now. I feel ready to just begin living my life as it is, without worrying about whether I’m being rude to him… he certainly doesn’t worry about whether he’s being rude to me. :p

    All of the answers felt very helpful to me.

    Thank you so much, Helena. It really was wonderful!

  131.  #131Femininewoman on February 5, 2014 at 5:09 am

    Hi Amber. I am over here jumping up and clapping my hands for you. Yayy you for sticking with your boundary.

  132.  #132LoveAlways on February 5, 2014 at 5:17 am

    Good morning Sirens.

    It was so good to here Helena discuss the different tools last night! These tools help and they work. I spent months trying to get my friends to read up on Rori Raye and check out the blog and program . . . It felt weird that I was brushed off. Yet I understand better . . . A family member is into wrapping now, a way to trim your midsection. She lives and breathes it! All of her social media and time is spent towards this new venture in her life. I’m glad she has a passion, a cause! While its not for me, I’m proud of her. She hangs out with others in that venture and goes to their rallies. It dawned on me during Helena’s teleclass that I’m the same way about Feminine energy and getting my needs met in and out of a relationship. This is one of my passions, it has changed my life, I spend time self improving, learning and sharing with like-minded women! I participate in teleclasses and on the blog and I listen to the programs and read eBooks regularly! It feels good to be involved with siren island, Rori’s trained and guest coaches. This works for me and I embrace that now. I don’t need to convince every woman to get on board. I respect their own passions and admire their dedications, but I’m just happy with this passion of mine and I feel happy to be so saturated in it. I am proud of me for changing my life!

  133.  #133Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 5:46 am

    I loved Helena Hart’s teleclass last night 🙂

  134.  #134Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 6:03 am

    Something in me is healing or opening this past wk. I feel spontaneously moved throughout the day. I feel weighted, a sensation of sinking into the floor. A tear or a few tears spill out of my eyes and my heart feels warm, tender and I feel exposed. I feel my soft hand over my heart offering love and protection. I feel slowed down and anchored in the moment. I feel gentle movement throughout my body as I notice I’m breathing fully and deeply. I feel love, the wave of love that washes over you when you hold your baby for the first time, I feel overwhelming pure blissful LOVE. And then I notice what I was doing and carry on. I feel so happy and thankful, like being wrapped in a blanket of pink joy.

  135.  #135Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 6:27 am

    Tweaked my profile again – basically the same profile but changed more of the sentences to feeling messages. I’m feeling like I received an A+ on an essay lol

    – *HIGH FIVE* For the laudable use of witty optimism and seamless syntactical readability. 🙂

    – What I found most intriguing about your profile though, is your, for lack of adequate words, level of awareness; Both intra and interpersonally. As well as your capricious approach to the fun (and ironically most important) parts of life. You’re a truly rare breed, especially in these virtual waters.

    – I just want to start by saying that you have the greatest profile. I couldn’t help myself… I quite enjoyed reading it! I
    would love the opportunity to get to know you and find out more!

    I feel seen and heard! I also feel giddy that much younger guys are hitting on me lately, I feel uninterested romantically and yet flattered and sparkly in me.

  136.  #136Femininewoman on February 5, 2014 at 6:38 am

    Woohoo Kyla 🙂

  137.  #137Femininewoman on February 5, 2014 at 6:49 am

    Brenda I wonder how you are doing? I hope you are sasfe.

  138.  #138Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Thanks FW!

    Re 125 – I hear you. I also feel its an unproductive use of my focus.. for my energy, thoughts and feelings to be put outside of me into blame or judgement of someone/thing out there when I could be sinking into my feelings, thinking about my passions and using my energy to fill me up, keeping my focus on me and following my good feeling feelings instead.

  139.  #139Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 7:42 am

    Oooh I feel anxious. I feel bad to hear people feeling triggered and judged and unsafe to share here. I don’t want to trigger someone yet I don’t want to feel unsafe or guilty for sharing my experience at the risk of triggering someone. Phew.. I feel all untied again and that feels better.

  140.  #140T.Bradley on February 5, 2014 at 8:32 am

    If im reading your post correctly I felt the same way. I felt as if I was being judged but the tables was about to be turned if I had received another negative feedback. We are suppose to be able to share how we feel/felt. We all have feelings and they are all different!

  141.  #141Helena Hart on February 5, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Shannon – 127 – You’re welcome, I’m so glad it was helpful!

    Thanks again to everyone who participated in the teleclass!!

    Love, Helena

  142.  #142Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 10:06 am

    Yes, Syreena, that’s a good point and exactly what I do, I don’t engage with these losers anymore. I’m going to keep using that term (and not be bullied out of it here) because that’s how I feel about them. Its kinda funny to me that so many of us here seem to make such great strides to coddle and protect men who are acting offensively and poorly. I just don’t get it. They don’t need our protection, they deserve to know that they are acting like baffoons and the more we giggle and go along with it and “sweetly smile”, the more that they will think its perfectly fine to behave like that and continue to do it.

    Anyway, all I’m saying is that I totally agree with Syreena, the best way to handle it when men act like idiots is to just ignore them. The guy who made that stupid remark to me about x and y chromosomes and what would happen if we had sex together, seemed shocked that I didn’t go along with his little antics and that I pretty abruptly left the conversation soon after that and left him standing there. He kept trying to get my attention throughout the night and seemed hurt that I wouldn’t engage with him again. I think he got it though so hopefully he’ll think twice before engaging with another woman in such an offensive away again.

  143.  #143Iris on February 5, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Hello Sirens,

    It’s a little late of me posting, but I’m feeling a lot of crazy intense stuff. I’m wondering if the Targeting Mr. Right program might help me with all of these intense emotions.

    Here’s my situation, so after being a pro at practicing the tools, leaning back, opening my heart, etc. I have been circular dating so successfully that I have guys fighting for my attention from every direction. I have never experienced this before, and I really want to be single for awhile before i even think of my Happily Ever After.

    My main CD guy has been putting a lot of pressure on me to be his girlfriend, and not seeing anyone else. I feel conflicted, guilty, and overwhelmed by all of this. And he’s not the only guy who wants me to be all his. All of these guys’ energies coming at me, wanting to love me, is just so overwhelming that sometimes I want to close off my heart.

    Some other women would scoff at my situation, saying, “Stop complaining that you have so many guys after you.” It makes you feel guilty for not wanting to commit, because all of these guys who are after me are stand-up, true blue kinds of guys.

    I wish I didn’t have to feel overwhelmed by all of this.

  144.  #144Andrea on February 5, 2014 at 10:15 am

    Amber # 100!!! I’m right there with Feminine Woman jumping up and down. I feel victorious, living vicariously through you!!

    I’ll tell you what, even as I was reading your post and heard his response: You have to be exclusive, but HE doesn’t want to be… huh?? I found myself wanting to argue, convince, tell him why he’s crazy, figure him out, be angry AT him… etc…

    But then I read your response and my whole being felt peace. All of that other stuff… well that’s his business. It’s not for you to figure him out or convince of anything. You handled it so so well.

    I’m inspired. Totally inspired. Hooray!!! I love to hear those kinds of Triumphs!!! : )

  145.  #145Dominique on February 5, 2014 at 10:22 am

    Indigo – Liquid Light – Is this the one you mean?

    If so, I hope it helps.


  146.  #146Andrea on February 5, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Iris? Are you getting too involved in what the men want?
    Is there some reason you feel that you aren’t allowed to have what you want Right Now??

    “Oh, I feel like I just want to be alone right now. I’ll talk to you in a few days.”

    What’s wrong with that? Do you feel like you have to come up with some answer right now?

    To me, and of course, I can only project my own feelings… (not saying this is you)
    But it feels like “I need to have control. I don’t want to lose any of these men, they are wonderful men, so I’m going to continue to be available to them when they want me to be.”

    When I just let go of all of it…… The phone rings, I see who’s calling… I ask myself how do I feel RIGHT NOW!! Do I want to answer the phone? No??? I don’t answer the phone. Let it go to voice mail. Do I want to engage right now??? No??? I don’t engage.

    Just because men are showing up who are wonderful great men, still doesn’t mean that YOU and your feelings and desires take a back seat. You still need to be vigilant about what you are feeling and about what you want.
    There’s nothing at all wrong with wanting some alone time. Nothing at all. Those guys will still be there next week. And the ones who aren’t…. well, they won’t be…. shrug it off… on to the next.

  147.  #147Dominique on February 5, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Femininewoman – Have you seen this one?


  148.  #148Andrea on February 5, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Also want to add… Remember that (for me at least) the goal is NOT to “get a man”
    But the goal is to be ecstatic and happy and express joy and wonder and have a wonderful full loving life. My goal is to be happy in the moment.
    Sometimes that includes a man. Sometimes that’s just Me feeling feelings.
    A goddess is A goddess… in her alone times, and her couple times, and her married times, and everytime…

  149.  #149Iris on February 5, 2014 at 10:31 am

    143 Thanks, Andrea, yes, I think you’re probably right. I’m scared, because I don’t feel in control of the situation. Two of the guys I’m CDing with are close friends whom I known for your years, so I feel scared of rocking the apple cart, and upsetting them.

    Just sharing my feelings with everyone here helps a lot!

  150.  #150Iris on February 5, 2014 at 10:32 am

    @ Andrea, for me, it’s actually the contrary. I don’t want to “get a man”. Sometimes I feel like it’s too much, and I want them to go away!!

    I think today I’m gonna focus on me, and do something sensual to make myself feel better!

  151.  #151Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 10:34 am

    hahahaha!!! I just read a guy’s profile who describes HIMSELF as a goofball. OMG!!! Too funny!!!

  152.  #152Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 10:40 am

    Iris, well, you must be doing something right, very right, congrats! Now you have a choice of how you want to react/be with these men. You just need to figure out what you want…but be careful that you don’t react out of fear and close off to these men. They may not react well to that and you may regret it later. Just try to figure out what you want and try not to react out of fear so that you push them away and then regret it later. Just my 2 cents. But try to enjoy the attention and be happy that you have learned how to be a siren!!! Wow! 🙂

  153.  #153Magic Seahorse on February 5, 2014 at 10:48 am

    144 Dominique

    I feel so happy and relaxed, such easing of tension in my whole body with what you wrote. I believe that to be the most beautiful thing you ever wrote. It sums up everything so completely. Just so…………………. perfect:) Thank you sweet lady siren! Thank you for your words.

    xoxoxoxoxoxooxxo Magic Seahorse

  154.  #154Magic Seahorse on February 5, 2014 at 10:52 am

    In reading the sirens comments on men the meet around and go on dates with, I was thinking about Howard Wolowitz from big bang therory………………… heheheheheheheehheheh……………..

    I love how Bernadette and Howard interact with each other. Bernie uses feeling messages with him! Isn’t she just the sweetest thing?! And then she uses the VOICE! Like his moms voice! I love that show;)

  155.  #155Lisa on February 5, 2014 at 11:14 am

    @LiquidLight… Please don’t be pushed out of here.. I had so much to say in response to your post.. but I’ve just had so much going on with myself… and I too feel that way… I also am so proud of you for speaking up in your earlier post… and I too have felt the double standard about not taking crumbs but then when I post about myself…. like I should be taking crumbs..I also feel sometimes that no matter what or how I choose my words carefully… there is going to be a jab… but that is reality…such is life…

    As for coddling yes, I agree and I also know that is part of the issue in society with men in general and Graham White who is a man writes about it.. it just re-enforces the issues with men… they need to man-up-grow themselves up and the more us women coddle/feel sorry for them the less they will… (according to him and Dr. Pat Allen. Giving them space and letting them do it on their own – without making them wrong – is what I thought this program was about..I guess I’ve always seen the 3 of them as saying the same thing… ????

    I’ll post more.. but I just wanted you to know… that it was very empowering for you to vent on here and be yourself whatever words you use! Be Raw and authentic! You Go Girl!!! You rock! Don’t settle!

    I’m glad you brought it up and wrote it so well!

    <3 <3


  156.  #156Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 11:32 am

    Thanks Lisa I so appreciate what you wrote!

    Sometimes I get the feeling with women that they don’t want you to dream big about going for it all. They want you to stay down at the level where they are, just kinda settling for an ordinary guy in a ho-hum relationship. I’m going for the gold and I’m sorry if that offends others here but so be it. How about cheering another siren on and being inspired rather than pulling her down?

    I’m tired of low quality men and I’m tired of women not wanting the best for others. If I want a man who is successful, that means, yes, he makes good money, what’s it to you? Why do you many women here seem to be threatened by that? Probably because she is too frightened/feels she is unworthy to go for that herself.

    We don’t have to bring others down to feel better about ourselves. I really try to catch myself when I do this because I hate it when others treat me like this, both men and women. I have no patience for that anymore.

    So, yeah, Lisa, thanks for the encouraging words and thanks for your enthusiasm. I really do appreciate it! 🙂

  157.  #157Kyla on February 5, 2014 at 11:54 am

    Liquid Light, I feel so confused by 2 statements you made re woman here on the blog.

    “They want you to stay down at the level where they are, just kinda settling for an ordinary guy in a ho-hum relationship.”

    “If I want a man who is successful, that means, yes, he makes good money, what’s it to you? Why do you many women here seem to be threatened by that?”

    I haven’t experienced that here at all… quite the opposite. I feel all the sirens cheering each other on to reach higher and want better for ourselves and to not settle for less than. It feels sad to hear your experience of all the love and support and processing is so negative.

    (((Liquid Light)))

  158.  #158Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    Not you, Kyla, but I get that vibe from others here and other women in my life. And, yeah, it sucks.

  159.  #159Iris on February 5, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    #149 Thanks, Liquid Light. I needed some gentle words of advice.

    I will go home today, curl up on my bed, watch a DVD I really like, and feel warm inside before going to bed. I know that I can only make the best decisions when I don’t feel overwhelmed by things.

  160.  #160Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    You are welcome, Iris! Keep us posted! Your story and results you are getting with these men are SO INSPIRING!!!

  161.  #161Tereana on February 5, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    April Rose (96) Thank you for sharing!

  162.  #162Liquid Light on February 5, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    I’ve been wearing heels more. I like wearing heels, they make me feel more feminine and sexy. I like having to take tinier steps, walking more delicately, and that my pelvis is kinda thrust forward. It makes me feel sexy like a cat. I wore a red shirt and beige heels with a beige jacket to the happy hour last Friday. I like wearing red too. I realized that I hardly ever wear red but I like it. I wore red earrings. I felt hot and sexy.

  163.  #163Stacy on February 5, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    Good afternoon Rori

    I have just finished reading your book ‘Make him fall for you’, I would like to improve my current situation and I am not sure quite where to start. I am seeing man interstate, there is great chemistry. However we first started something 18months ago and continuously throughout, I end it due to a lack of effort or not feeling respected. So we have been in recent contact again for 6weeks. I made arrangements for flights and he paid for them, the one night visit felt like me entertaining him, cooking then cleaning up, intimacy it is more me giving and him happily receiving. I like his company but want so much more from him. I rarely receive calls or texts, I trust he is exclusive as we’ve agreed on that. But he has expressed if it does become more serious he wants it private not on fb which makes me feel unappreciated. He will visit again shortly and I am unsure where to start to improve my situation so I feel the love and commitment I desire.

  164.  #164Rori Raye on February 5, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Stacy – do you follow a religion, or belong to a culture where exclusivity is required, and these kinds of long distance experiences are a matter of course? I work with many women in those situations, and it’s very difficult to know what to do. You almost need, for this to work, a very deep knowledge of the man through family, work, his history. And you can likely find that out. If the culture or religion is not an issue here, then you are simply lacking experience and knowledge about men and relationships. This is not ANY kind of relationship – not even a friendship. Please re-examine what you want, get the ebook to understand about how this should be working…it is not EVER okay for a woman to invest in ANY way in a man who is not devoted, present, sending his energy to her no matter what. If you are not being chased, and actively LOVED – he shouldn’t get anywhere near you, or get even a moment of your precious time. That’s my world. Love, Rori

  165.  #165Millie on February 5, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    107 Tereana–

    Just saw your post.
    I think where I miscommunicated in that post to you ladies is that I taking about whether I should share my feelings with a man who isn’t pursuing me….not whether anyone should share here….seems like you understand what I meant now, though.

    I decided to forget it….A week has passed and i’m over it. He’s really not that great and I’m done chasing after men that don’t want me. I have no desire or energy for that. Yeah I’m attracted to him, but not necessarily for the right reasons….so leaving it at that.

  166.  #166Millie on February 5, 2014 at 11:21 pm

    145 Andrea I love this…
    being a goddess is about living in the moment 🙂

  167.  #167Dominique on February 8, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    Magic Seahorse – Thank you for this. I feel filled up.

    Love to you.


  168.  #168Lana on April 20, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    What if I’m 2+ dates into a situation and I’ve recognized I’ve already made several mistakes as per love scripts per dating, e.g. long phone conversations, sexting…he is responding to this in a big way…he texts me several times a day and throughout the day.

    Do I just go forward and now start implementing the for example 5 min talks…will he now think that I’m snubbing him?