Reflecting Back What He Says

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lightbulbBecause my husband, Jeffrey Levine, is a “Non-Violent communication” specialist, I get all kinds of great tips, Tools and interactions from and with him.

The other night – I could FEEL myself wanting to object to what he was saying, wanting it MY way, not “getting” his point of view, feeling “unheard” – all of it.

I said, “I don’t ‘get’ this. I don’t feel “got.”

He said, “Well, how about you reflect back to me what you thought I said…”

And I did.

And it wasn’t succinct, in a few words – I rambled a bit until I was sure I got out in words what I “understood” him to say about what he “wanted” and “didn’t want.”

He said, “That’s exactly it.”

And then he asked me: “And what was your issue with that…?”

And so I said, “It would feel good to hear what you thought I said…”

And he did. And he got it right, too. Perfect.

AND – I didn’t feel any better!

I STILL felt angry, combative, not comprehending the “conflict” in our two views…still all of that.

BUT!!! – And here’s the really, really important part: HE FELT HEARD!!

Not only did he feel heard, he felt so great – because I heard him and was able to say it back to him, in my own words – that he felt CONNECTED to me.

He felt SO connected to me, the energy he started putting out toward me was incredible. He was lit up, interested, turned on….it was though he suddenly (even though I was aware that I was still on the verge of shutting down and closing off) FELT emotionally close to me.

It was like MAGIC.

And I instantly started to realize that I was just feeling ornery. I was pissed. I wasn’t getting “my way.”

And I had to make a quick decision if I was going to hold onto being “right,” and continue to distance myself from him because of my feelings – or whether I was going to feel and feel and feel whatever I felt – and STILL choose CONNECTION over everything else!

I chose connection, and it was fantastic.

So – now, this is pretty advanced (I’m going to do a whole new teleclass for my Love Forever members on this) – and here’s the “Reflecting” Tool quick and simple:

This is NOT “active listening” as most therapists and teachers teach it. This is using Poetry and Feeling Messages to express what you HEARD.

It might go like this:

1. You feel misheard, misunderstood, uncared for, angry, ornery, ready for a “discussion” of why you don’t feel “got.”

2. Instead of starting that “discussion,” you say:

“Okay, I can feel myself wanting to disagree with you and get defensive, and I just want to make sure that I’ve heard you right. So, you said that…..”

3. While you talk, you’re leaning back as FAR as you can, being as simple and neutral as possible

4. You reflect back to him, in your OWN words, what you heard. (Here’s your ONLY chance to use the “you” word!) “So, you said that…..”

“You’d like…”

“It’s important to you to…”

“You don’t want to…”

“You’d like me to…”

Whatever you heard.

You’re going to REFLECT it back – and, here’s the key:

You can have absolutely NO judgment about it!

You can’t roll your eyes, or even THINK that he’s “wrong” while you’re Reflecting back.

It has to be your deep determination to:

1. Accept and Love how you feel – however that is, however that feels – AND…

2. Do your best to “get” him by simply reflecting back the “gist” – or the important message you heard – of what he said.

Even though it infuriated or frustrated you. Even though it made you feel sad.

Let me know how this works!

Love, Rori

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263 Comments

  1.  #1Cris on January 27, 2014 at 6:45 am

    Thank you Rori!! This is so useful for me… last week I started to be defensive about what my husband was talking about. It was about a colleague that I personally don’t like much but he tried to defend her. I did not know how to express feeling messages for communicating that I was not comfortable and that I know her better than he does…so I took the option of walking away and finish the conversation. It could be different with your advice!!



  2.  #2Femininewoman on January 27, 2014 at 8:27 am

    Yikes



  3.  #3Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 10:22 am

    So I’m pretty sure I pushed DrWho away and I feel resigned to let him walk away. I felt irritable and weird when I woke up Sunday, he felt slightly distant to me on Sunday morning for part 2 of our date, said he hadn’t slept well, I felt in the way and finally made an off the cuff remark about getting out of his way and got him to drive me home. I got out of the car so fast and thanked him for the distraction this wkd and haven’t heard from him since. He always texts after our dates, he always makes plans for our next date and this time nothing. I felt teary last night and today I feel tormented that I reverted to a prickly cactus and pushed him away, felt him withdraw and then punished him for withdrawing. I feel flattened.



  4.  #4Cupcake on January 27, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Kyla-

    Wait and see. He may just be doing the “rubber band” thing.

    Was that the first time you’d slept with him?

    Just lean back, breathe, and distract yourself. It’s only a movie.

    (You inspired me to write a story on the previous thread. So it’s sort of dedicated to you. And thank you for your suggestion to write it.)

    And re: DrWHO–. I felt surprised to hear you blame yourself. I don’t think I ever heard you do that before. So I feel curious about where that’s coming from.



  5.  #5Femininewoman on January 27, 2014 at 10:37 am

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/does-he-want-you-in-his-life/#comment-322561

    Two great comments from Rori on another thread

    267: Rori Raye says:
    NS – I would simply not accept dates with him anymore. If he asks why not – you just say “It would feel great to be together, to live in the same space. It doesn’t feel good to be “dating” you casually – I love you, and I want more. What do you think?” and then just keep dating other men FOR REAL!!!! Love, Rori

    265: Rori Raye says:
    Liz, You’re in a very confusing and delicate situation, and I want to encourage you to get coaching. Try my Certified Coaches (Directory over in the sidebar) for very affordable help with this – and because I mentor them, I can help out if needed. I can tell you one thing for absolute sure – the key to this for you is to get as much DISTANCE as you can from him – that means Circular Date – get an exotic and fun life, hang out with friends, go to class, do scary things like Toastmasters, acting class, pole dancing so YOU feel like a new person to YOU – and then learn, with one of my coaches, how to open your heart in a new and scary way – even while you’re absolutely preparing to LEAVE this marriage. At 32 – you’re very, very young. I personally would NEVER, EVER stay with a man two minutes who had another woman. Period. I’d stay so I had a home, while I worked to find a way to support myself, got a lawyer to make sure (and PLEASE DO THAT THIS MINUTE – so that the money is TRACKED!!!) I knew exactly what my financial options were – and started dating other men. That’s what I’d do, that’s what I would coach YOU to do. If he ever decided to chase after you – then you’d have options. Love, Rori



  6.  #6April Rose on January 27, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Rori, this is a timely post for me. I had the same experience yesterday with WM. The conversation went something like this:

    Him “It’s been good to process my thoughts on paper today”

    Okay, I’ll give a brief context: this man spends anything up to 14 hours a day on his laptop, writing policies and stuff for the venture we’re supposed to be running together. It can feel very disconnecting to me, despite often being busy doing my own thing.

    Me “Wow. It feels good to me not seeing you lost in the computer screen all day.”

    Him “I prefer pen and paper when I’m working out what to say. Often on the computer I lose my drift and waste time going back over things”.

    Me “Hmm. I feel happy to see you writing on paper. I feel bad when I perceive you lost in your computer for hours. I lose the feeling of us being a team. So, are you going to write on paper from now on?”

    Him “If you see me on the computer you can ask me if it’s something I could be doing on paper”.

    Me “Does that mean you will still be working long hours on the computer?”

    Him “I’ve just said to you what you can do when you see me being on the computer for ages.”

    Me “So, you’re just gonna carry on doing it even tho’ you know it makes me feel disconnected?”

    Him “I just told you what you can do when it happens”

    Me “But I don’t want to see it happening. Why are you insisting on it happening when you know it disturbs me? I would like to have my feelings cherished”.

    Him “I would like to have my feelings cherished too. Can’t you just do what I’m asking you?”

    Me “I don’t want to be in that position. I don’t want to play that role”

    Him “I’m not asking you to police me. Just to gently ask me”.

    Me “I don’t want to have to ask you. I would like you to take my feelings into account”.

    And so on, until…

    Me (still seething mad but speaking softly) “Yes, I hear you and what you are asking me to do”.

    I had to drop the battle, because he wasn’t going to drop it, and I didn’t want to be the ‘victor’ anyway.
    Dropping my will to win felt better than continuing to push my point.



  7.  #7prplpsn28 on January 27, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Hi everyone! Trying to keep up. Comments have been very interesting and informative.



  8.  #8Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 11:34 am

    my posts aren’t showing up… they go into moderation…

    humm anyone else?

    OXOXO



  9.  #9Ignis on January 27, 2014 at 11:35 am

    Oh it has been a while since I was posting here. But this post is so on time. I finally started seeing someone and after 4 months it got complicated because of his situation. And I did just that (more or less exactly like in this post), and what I got back was excuses and more excuses. So at the end it felt so bad for me I just said I do not know what more to say and I feel for just focusing on myself and if I really want this or not. I guess this is what I have to learn now, to let a man go when he is not able to step up. It feels like such a turn off, but it is so difficult to stay on the bridge, yet again. So much to learn, so much ahhh



  10.  #10Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 11:35 am

    @Millie last post…. wow.. and i’m actually reading your posts and sayin Hey I’m going through that same realization right now…

    OXOXO



  11.  #11Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 11:51 am

    Aww Cupcake I love your story, simply beautiful. I feel huge tears spilling down my cheeks reading it.. and I feel honoured for the dedication too X

    As for DrWho, he was a rubberband man that was inching himself closer to me and I shoved him way hard yesterday. I was hard, cold and spiky and I can’t for the life of me explain what happened because I watched myself do this and couldn’t stop no matter how much I tried. Now I can’t fix, I can’t explain, I can’t do anything at all because I’m a fcking girl thats supposed to be soft and lovely and doesn’t chase me and I know he’s gone and ain’t coming back. I saw the look on his face and I hate myself for putting it there. Intense fear and grief took over and I became someone I don’t recognize.



  12.  #12Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 11:57 am

    And I didn’t have full sex with him, but second time spending the night. I am reading back what I wrote and I don’t recognize me in them. I feel off-kilter. I don’t know what to do except cry.



  13.  #13Shannon on January 27, 2014 at 11:57 am

    This is awesome. I’ve been doing The Work a lot over the last few days.

    Last night, I was asked out by a rather attractive young guy, just out of the blue after getting stood up (best. thing. ever! :p).

    This post reminds me strongly both of the Work and of Listening Level 2, but adds a new dimension to that.

    I feel different right now than I did just a couple days ago, and one important thing is that it feels like I’m hearing people without my own “stuff” in the way of it… just like this post says.

    Last night, I got home and posted that I’d been asked out. Then I went in the bathroom and saw that I had a huge black skin from a black bean stuck in my teeth, lol! I freaked out, and I thought, “he was kind of trying to tell me, because he kept putting his scarf over his mouth,” etc. etc.

    Today I apologized to him after he emailed me this morning. Come to find out after a few exchanges, that he never noticed it at all! All his fiddling with his scarf was his own fear that his breath was bad, lol.

    It goes to show that we just never know what’s going on in another person’s mind… but every conversation can be altered into that chance for deeper connection.

    As Rori says in this post, I had to decide whether I wanted to stick to my own feelings and hold onto my own ‘rightness’ or if I wanted to mend what I said.

    I told him that I felt like I was overthinking it and being very, very silly. That it felt wonderful that he cared so much that I enjoy the date (that he was worried about his breath smelling bad).

    Strange conversation, but I also think it’s probably completely different from any he’s had with a woman before. I know it’s completely different for me. 😀



  14.  #14Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    @Kyla just a thought…. from my own experiences…

    “He is gone for good” maybe your in his head and heart… his biz? Can you know that is true?

    Just what I would work with – within my own process….

    OXOXOX



  15.  #15Indigo on January 27, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    Sigh.

    Big lesson for me in recent weeks/months, that when a man is moving you, when you are connecting, when the “free therapy” of learning to be in relationships, of being open to another human being like that … your old little issues get dislodged and come to pay a visit. For me, I get triggered in odd, slightly irritable ways… and it’s how I handle it in these times that makes all the difference. For instance, B has been doing SO much right – I mean, he pays for EVERYTHING, he always picks me up, always phones, is incredibly affectionate and attentive AND masculine, he’s patient and kind and adoring – it was INEVITABLE that at some point I would get triggered.

    That is how it seems to go for me when I connect with someone… inevitably they trigger one of “golden oldie” little triggers, much like what Dominique describes with the porn. Something which I *know* in my logical mind is nothing to worry about, yet it just gets to me and affects me all the same.

    What an interesting process this is 🙂



  16.  #16Iris on January 27, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    These comments are in response of the previous post.

    #22 from previous post

    Helena, thanks for sharing your interview. It definitely helped a lot!

    #34 from previous post

    Veronica, thank you also for sharing those great ideas on how to stay in the feminine.



  17.  #17Iris on January 27, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Wow! This is a challenging exercise. Sometimes I just feel so angry, it’s just a cry for help, which makes it difficult to listen to anybody else.



  18.  #18Liquid Light on January 27, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Kyla

    I’m sorry to hear what happened. You don’t know that he won’t be back, my guess is that he will. It may take a little while though.

    If I were you, I would try to think back to what triggered me. It must of been something that happened. (We ALL have triggers so don’t beat yourself up about it.) Anyway, I would try to figure out what happened and then be prepared so that the next time that the same thing happens, I react differently and more constructively. It’s all about retraining ourselves and our habitual reactions that don’t serve us.

    So its an opportunity for you to grow immensely. And again, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you blew it and he won’t be back. That’s simply a story you made up that isn’t based in reality. Just be prepared when he does show up that you are open and receptive with a tender heart. Just my 2 cents.

    Hang in there, girl, big hugs to you!

    (((((((((Kyla)))))))))



  19.  #19Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    Things were good and getting better every night and my hormones kicked in and I bolted like a frightened horse. Why? Because he was giving me everything I wanted when we were together.. the problem is we were almost never together, it could be 1 – 3 weeks between contact and he mentioned he’s travelling this week and I feel fear to fall for man that’s not going to be around!

    I hear you Lisa and yet I’m feeling more upset about my reaction and shut down than the idea that he’s gone to be honest.



  20.  #20Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light.. I really need those hugs X



  21.  #21Liquid Light on January 27, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Hmmm, yes, Kyla, maybe it was just a reaction to your knowing that this man could not give you what you want? Well, when he does show up again, perhaps its an opportunity to talk about it since it sounds like in every other way, its been great.

    Also something to consider, relationships and dynamics can change, and just because its this way now it doesn’t mean it will be same in the future. just a thought.



  22.  #22surferchica on January 27, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Rori, how is this different from active listening?

    I have lived a life where I non-defensively reflected back what my ex-husband was feeling/thinking, I “got” him and he often felt “gotten.” It did make him feel emotionally close to me and for years, I would allow for/choose closeness over being right. But over time, it felt as though it went one way. The ability to hear me, to see and feel for me, to reflect back to me how I was doing was not reciprocated (and I don’t mean in that same moment, either, but in a different moment, when I needed to be heard).

    How do you hang onto yourself when you are constantly choosing to hear him, to choose connection over being heard as well? I feel like the capacity for empathy and “getting” others makes them comfortable around me and men fall in love with me/with that. Somehow I get lost, though. My need to be heard is perceived as criticism (even when I use “I” statements, and use your tools from Love Scripts).

    I feel discouraged by reading about this way of being. It conflicts with “what do I want?” as expressed by Andrea in the previous blog post. Can you help me understand how both can be true—this “getting it” and staying true to self?

    Last thing you should know: I’ve been involved in this kind of growth process since my teens and am from So Cal. I’m in my 50s now. I go to therapy and spend a lot of time reflecting on personality, creating space, showing up, standing in the other person’s shoes, listening in non-judgmental ways, and more. Sometimes, though, it feels like a piece must be missing…



  23.  #23Cupcake on January 27, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    ((((Kyla))))



  24.  #24Dominique on January 27, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Kyla – 11 – As long as you can do so without expectations, you can reach out and apologize. It may or may not make a difference, yet this is for you, to help you feel better, to relieve your feelings of guilt, maybe shame, or whatever else you might be feeling which doesn’t feel good.

    xxoo



  25.  #25Dominique on January 27, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    surferchica – 22 – Is this truly a need to be heard, or is this a need to be right? I’m not saying this is the case; it something to consider.

    That said, you can still listen, hear someone, connect with them and keep your boundaries intact. If someone crosses a true boundary too many times for you to feel comfortable around them, then maybe this relationship/friendship needs to be reconsidered.

    xxoo



  26.  #26Liquid Light on January 27, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    I just got new shoes in the mail! Cute heels in different colors! I’m going to wear a pair tomorrow night on my date. He’s taking me to a really nice place for drinks, the kind of place you look good for! I’m not really that into him but I’m def impressed with the place he chose. Either way, it will be fun to dress the part and look good! I hope I don’t fall on my face…I’m not that used to wearing high heels!



  27.  #27Femininewoman on January 27, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    April Rose I have to admit that reading that conversation reminded me of Rori’s article Are You his Inquisitor

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/are-you-his-inquisitor-making-him-feel-safe-and-loved-is-all-about-you/



  28.  #28April Rose on January 27, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    The more I ponder, the less I feel happy about what Rori is sharing here. Ok, so her man felt connected, and she melted into that and that felt good. BUT, something about the exchange was bothering her, and making her feel angry. What was that?

    In my own exchange (I wrote above) I felt angry too. It looks a lot to me like a man who doesn’t adore a woman. He rarely does something ‘for me’ unless he wants it too.



  29.  #29Femininewoman on January 27, 2014 at 2:05 pm

    April I got the impression that you weren’t really listening or you were listening to formulate a response. I believe after the second round you could have just said okay. All that means is that you hear him. It is not an agreement that will do what he says.



  30.  #30April Rose on January 27, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    FW,

    I was partly in shock that he couldn’t hear my feelings. I was trying to drive them home, and feeling more and more desperate.

    I guess I need to feel more vulnerability around how this situation makes me feel, and express that.

    Honestly, would you want a man in the house who sits at the dining table with his nose in a laptop all day?



  31.  #31April Rose on January 27, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    Yeah, I know. Feeling messages are for exploring feelings in his presence. Not for trying to control the outcome.
    🙁



  32.  #32Dominique on January 27, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    April Rose – Yes, feeling messages are for you, not anyone else. They do tend to make others feel safer around you IF you have no expectation or agenda.

    As for wanting a man around who has his nose in a computer all day long, only you can answer this for you.

    You cannot control him, yet the more you take care of you, filling your life up just as you have been doing, the greater chance you have of him coming out from under to find you.

    xxoo



  33.  #33Liquid Light on January 27, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    There was someone here who tried Its Just Lunch. I’m thinking about trying their service. If the person that has tried them sees this, can you let me know how it went for you? I think that you didn’t have a good experience? Anyway, if anybody has tried Its Just Lunch, I would love to hear about your experience! Thanks!



  34.  #34surferchica on January 27, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    Dominique, I thought I made it clear that my question wasn’t about being right. I’m not even interested in that.

    What I’m talking about is being heard—much the way Rori described how she heard her husband. That seems important as a “goes both ways” experience for true intimacy. So yes, in a single instance (or many instances), it is important to let go and listen (absolutely) even while still feeling your own feelings, but giving the other person the experience that you are not defensive or judgmental, while reflecting back what he is saying. That’s a genuinely awesome intimacy-building experience.

    I’m asking a question about the energy exchange. Not safety. Not discomfort.

    While she let go of being right in this moment, is there a different time when she wouldn’t have? When she would have spoken her feelings (as she often urges in her tools)? What is the difference between the two instances?



  35.  #35surferchica on January 27, 2014 at 5:26 pm

    Clarification: Not her need to be right, but her need to be heard.



  36.  #36Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Thank you Dominique. I did apologize, thanks for your suggestion, I was afraid that was a no-no and I felt relieved to be able to say sorry, for that to be ok and I felt so much better.

    He sent a really warm response and it doesn’t matter. I’m ok now. He’s going to be away for more than 2 weeks and there will be no contact anyway.



  37.  #37Kyla on January 27, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    Bear continues to blow up my phone with texts, he’s the polar opposite/flip side to DrWho contact wise, sigh. Tonight we talked on the phone and we sort of have another date planned, he’s supposed to confirm tomorrow. I want to practice responding to being triggered and yet feel wary of him. He’s sending more red flags out, but then he responds so well to me that I am getting a lot of practice saying all sorts of feelings, don’t wants, scripts and speeches. He told me tonight he’s decided he is going to call instead of text from now on to avoid overwhelming me and I noticed that I felt better when he said that.

    Old CD resurfaced on POF as he does every now and then. I decided to respond, he asked for an explanation, I shared how I felt and that I don’t ask men out, he is now trying to convince me that he was/is super interested yet it was MY turn to ask him out (equality and all that!) and I feel super amused at how irritated he is that he shouldn’t have to chase me.. hasn’t stopped him for the last 8 weeks.. he can’t hear me, he’s trying to teach me modern dating etiquette according to his own sense of right and wrong and is still insisting that I ask him. Oh boy, giggle.



  38.  #38Amber on January 27, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Hi, Sirens! This post triggered me, here’s what I wrote!

    I feel sad and unheard and unvalidated when (T) doesn’t respond to my texts. Feeling unheard feels like my feelings are unimportant. Feeling unimportant triggers me HUGELY (childhood issues) I feel “not good enough” to be heard. How can I heal from this?

    Also, April Rose – 31 THANK YOU for this reminder

    “Yeah, I know. Feeling messages are for exploring feelings in his presence. Not for trying to control the outcome.
    :-(”

    Cheers!



  39.  #39Amber on January 27, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Hi, Sirens! This post triggered me, here’s what I wrote!

    I feel sad and unheard and unvalidated when (T) doesn’t respond to my texts. Feeling unheard feels like my feelings are unimportant. Feeling unimportant triggers me HUGELY (childhood issues) I feel “not good enough” to be heard. How can I heal from this?

    Also, April Rose – 31 THANK YOU for this reminder

    “Yeah, I know. Feeling messages are for exploring feelings in his presence. Not for trying to control the outcome.
    :-(”

    Cheers!



  40.  #40Zia on January 27, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Hi Sirens!

    Love this post Rori! I’ve not really been checking into this blog much lately, as I’ve moved to focus on other areas of my life. However this weekend I went out with a nice guy I know from work and we’ve always been friendly whenever we’ve seen each other. Then saw him another couple of times over the weekend and I didn’t have to do a thing, HE wanted to see ME! Was really nice spending time and just enjoying feeling comfortable and relaxed with a guy. And I can definitely feel the changes within myself compared to how I was a year ago! How time flies….



  41.  #41Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    {{{Kyla}}}

    re your response to me… be gentle with yourself. I get that your upset with your reaction. We all have done it… I have, even when I tried my best not to..

    I get what your feeling about seeing someone that often and it not being fulfilling. My last long term was that way.. eventually I had to realize that, I needed more….. and that was why things kept building up inside me, was because I wasn’t being honest with myself about what my needs are… and I didn’t feel he was really cherishing my feelings about my needs… just my experience..

    I totally get it… and I’m so glad you were able to apologize …… <3

    OXOXO



  42.  #42LoveAlways on January 27, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Wow. Yes. This feels advanced to me. I have to read this article over



  43.  #43Indigo on January 27, 2014 at 8:55 pm

    April Rose 30,

    “Honestly, would you want a man in the house who sits at the dining table with his nose in a laptop all day?”

    For me personally, no. I had this with D, and we weren’t even sleeping in the same bed either. I never would willingly choose this feeling again.

    I am drawn to the more intelligent/geeky/computer/introverted types, but there are plenty of these who are very caring and attentive as well.

    xx



  44.  #44Liquid Light on January 27, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    I’m wearing my new red heels tomorrow to work and then to a date afterwards! woohoo!



  45.  #45Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    I feel like an idiot sometimes.. and though I’m not desperate …… and not needy… it feels sad down to my pit of my heart……. that here I am surfing profiles on OK cupid… and it just feels degrading sometimes… that all that I am… which is a LOT to offer a good man… that I just can’t seem to attract one that is ready and able….. and isn’t going to walk away so easily… this is what it has come to…?

    Even “D” and who knows if he was being honest said I’m amazing and so wonderful… just perfect… well but he is not around and is willing to let me go and if I fall in love with someone else…he’ll be my friend… hummm I’m so gullible….

    I just feel low… and degraded…. I just don’t get it!!! I’m such a catch… and these men walk away…

    Well except “G” who is about disgusting me… I told him twice I’m only up for friendship… and he is not going to let it go.. even though he says… OK friends….. and that he wants to let things evolve naturally…. ok but I’m feeling like I’d vomit if I kissed him… he doesn’t like making appts, he doesn’t like planning ahead, he is ok with being married and living in 2 different houses… the man is so set in his ways…. he can’t even move in with a woman… he says HE Really Values his FREEDOM… !!! he made that clear.. so NO way…. besides YUK…. I mean I like having intellectual convo’s with him… that is it!!

    What is going on that I attract them just fine, but they give up so easily…. even when I’m being feminine and soft, and using my feeling messages, and listening and doing my tools as best as I can…

    I should have men lined up… not giving up on me…. I’m the prize… I have Lots to offer… what is wrong ….. ???

    Oh God I just want to give up!!! I just don’t want to do this… it isn’t fun…these guy are boring me to tears.. talking about their ex’s, their $ problems…. not putting any effort into the dates….. I’d rather hang out by myself or with my friends…

    I feel so stupid… spending time searching over profiles and getting these stupid e-mails that are from profiles that don’t even have a picture… and barely filled out…

    Oh funny I found a man that is 99% compatible on OK… he lives in England… lots of laughs.. just my luck right… in another country…

    This just stinks… big time…

    tears, and just feeling run out… on these men that are showing up… aren’t EVEN close and aren’t even doing enough to even go out again…

    “M” did 1000 times more than these guys…
    Dan$g a 25 year old was more alpha masculine then these men my age.. and he was very clear he wanted to dance with me….. and made a point to continue…. my luck 1/2 my age….

    I feel so degraded….

    I don’t want to do this anymore…. I deserve better than this!

    OXOXO



  46.  #46Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    @ Indigo I heard Pat Allen the other day and one woman called in and said she attracts the Geeky/Intellectual/ Asperger’s type..( I laughed cause so do I) and I agree so much! I want a man that is attentive can handle affection- intimacy-sleeping with me- and wants to spend time with me…

    Just for me I’m officially done with the Geeky/ Asperger’s type.. like Pat Allen said, tell them you’ll still go out with them, but your going to continue to look for Mr. Right..

    “M” was OCD and he had to have routine – we even had to do our sexual positions in the same order… though that never bothered me… b/c I loved him!!! ( still do) but hind site I’d rather have a man that can handle true intimacy and not avoid sleeping with me… to avoid closeness and deepening….. I’m in total agreement!!!

    OXXOX



  47.  #47Amber on January 27, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    ((Lisa))

    Cupcake- I wish I was having wine with you, too!
    One thing to keep in mind… wine makes me lean forward… 🙁 I should have an app in my phone that when I hit three glasses, it will no longer send text messages or allow me to make phone calls 😛



  48.  #48Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    Thanks Amber!!! <3 back to you!

    {{{cupcake}}}

    OXOXO



  49.  #49Lisa on January 27, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    @Zia nice to see you here again! That is great news! I’m happy for you!

    OXOXO



  50.  #50cupcake on January 27, 2014 at 11:29 pm

    #47
    Amber- I would confiscate your phone after the second glass of wine. Friends don’t let friends dial drunk.

    🙂

    Lisa- tell the 99% match guy in England that you feel intrigued…Let him solve the problem of distance! They have planes over there! 🙂



  51.  #51Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 12:01 am

    I remember there was a time when BM spent most of his days behind the computer. It was okay, I wasn’t thrilled but I wasn’t feeling completely neglected. It was more a knowing that there could be a more beautiful way of engaging with each other but we both weren’t there yet. We would still spend quality time together – eating and cooking together with no computer in sight. One day, I just decided that I felt happy and I chose to feel happy even though the situation was not one that would inspire happiness in me. And I enjoyed the feeling and he noticed immediately even from behind his screen. He asked me what was happening, what I was smiling about, etc. He was tuned into my energy even though he was busy with his stuff, and sometimes I’d join him when he was at the computer and it became something for that moment that we did together. I felt much more at ease knowing that he was tuned into my energy. After that it wasn’t too big a deal because I sensed that even though he was doing his thing he was available for me, ready if I needed to talk or connect with him. I felt at ease.



  52.  #52Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 12:03 am

    After a while I realized that he was doing all the fighting parts of the game so that I could do all the exploring parts of the game (which I loved!) and then I was like ‘you dear sweet man’ in my vibe.



  53.  #53Millie on January 28, 2014 at 12:06 am

    @Lisa 10–

    thank you!!! I’m glad we are going through things together 🙂
    I feel a lot more happy and smiley. It’s almost like I’ve given myself permission to be young and to enjoy what’s in front of me. I’ve been worrying so much, worrying about dating, worrying about me dating…that my head is in a tailspin and my inner child was digging her heels into the floor. It feels relieving, to give yourself persmission to just be and be ok and be ok with whatever happens. Like, it’s ok if a man doesn’t do what I think he should. He can do A,B, C and whatever he wants, it’s not a reflection my measure as a woman. I’m just gonna be here laughing and being silly and enjoying it all without putting so much weight on everything! I just want to be my age.
    I’m really looking forward to seeing what happens with this attitude shift.



  54.  #54Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 12:11 am

    And now I want to contact him and share with him what’s happening with me.



  55.  #55Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 12:26 am

    @Millie you know it does feel like my inner child is tired of all this dating stuff! She wants to get back to her life of being in awe of her surroundings… like the fact that 2 of my orchids are blooming… and usually that excites me… I get all giddy …… and being in awe of the sunsets… the clouds… babies, baby cows… all of it…

    Life with me ( and me) is that way! Most all the time!!!.. I’m the one that oooooohhhhh look, LOOK! and everyone is saying what? I’m the one that sees the amazingness in life…

    I feel all this dating stuff is kind of dampened my spirit…

    like you I can (and did 3 different men this week..) go out with no expectations and just being me… and didn’t care that the one guy ask me if I had my 2 dollars for the cover charge to get in, to which I said, I don’t!… and we stayed where we were and I was fine just BEING not having to have anything…..

    and last night being with a different man and him changing his mind about moving on to another venue… to talk more and he decided to go home and pack… that was fine with me… I was tired… and didn’t need to do anything other than what was happening…

    So my inner child and my body though are tired… of the stress of having to date (even the ones I’m not interested in) and circle date and remember the tools etc… we just want to enjoy life… and play and do our things…. that make us happy…

    until that time ( if it ever happens) that someone comes along worth our time to work him in….

    Most of these guys I’d rather be home reading a book and soaking in the tub or cuddled up with my child, or just being home with myself…

    OXOXO



  56.  #56akasha on January 28, 2014 at 1:05 am

    Well I don’t even know where to start. I think I need to share my story just so I can help others in the same situation or people that used to be like me lurked around here looking for a sign. Long story short, we have been together for more than 2 years. I am 6 years older than him which wouldn’t be such a big deal but where I live and with our customs, it is a big deal to some people. I’m 34 this month. (though I feel so much younger!) . The last time we got back together I found out his dad didn’t want me but he told his family he couldn’t be wihtout me. Afterwards his mother called me and told me that we could get through anything and not to worry about it. We met through a mutual friend at work. I don’t see him at work only about once a few months. Anyways, he has commitment issues, growing up issues, and intimacy issues. His only other relationship left him when he was in a very vulnerable place in his life and along I came and healed his intimacy issues. I loved him to bits and he opened up to me finally. I think he has this old World mindset that the man should not have feelings and should not have to explain anything to the woman and he should be the macho man etc. But with me he was so mushy at home and so in need of love. Cut to my story, he was my first real relationship , first person I loved so I really latched on  we broke up 6 or so times. Every time because he got scared and/or he didn’t put any effort into the relationship. We would stay away for maybe 2 weeks to 2 months and then he would start calling again nonstop. Then he would meet up and we would be together again. The first month would be perfect and then I would overfunction and he would stop doing anything and the he would be scared of commitment (even though I never ever said the M Word) all I did was tell him that all I wanted was to be in a relationship in which he actually put some effort into it! So the last breakup I initiated for the first time. I told him that I was tired of rowing the boat and that I am stopping. And our relationship ended. He kept in contact, I kept telling him that I was finished putting effort in and I wanted to move on in my life. Last Wednesday was the last time we talked. I told him I deserve more in an relationship, that since he couldnt lift a finger for us other than calling me then I was gone. He kept saying he loved me to bits, he couldnt stop thinking about me and missing me. But I said that wasn’t enough since he didn’t even want to reconcile. We haven’t talked since. He called this morning 3 times. I didn’t answer. He then wrote that sometimes he misses my voice so much but that he won’t call again. Classic behavior. We are back to square one. But I don’t want to keep reliving those Dynamics! I want to be loved and cherished. Not in words but in actions. So I didn’t answer. I figüre I should lean far far far way way back.

    I don’t know if I can keep the no contact up, I don’t know what to do. I want to get one of the programs but I don’t know which one will help me with this? Should I keep up with no contact, should I talk to him? I don’t want to be sucked into this again but I love him so much I don’t know how long I can keep silent if he calls or messages again.

    I hope I made some sense?? I can clarify some things if they are not clear. Oh and also, all during our breaks, he didn’t see anyone else, no dating no partying nothing. It’s not like he breaks up because he misses the single life. He is a very homey guy that loves being in the relationship but doesn’t want any responsibility. He has tons of stress at his job, I kept overfunctioning and being very needy and that probably made him drift away too. Also , his family is having money problems and he is the type that equates manliness with money.

    Thanks for reading! Hope everyone has a great day.



  57.  #57Mandy on January 28, 2014 at 1:30 am

    Oh boy this one’s a lot to remember, but if I write about it it might help.

    Just wanted to chime in with an update about my situation with my committed live-in relationship.

    He and I had a very healthy, good-feeling discussion yesterday, and I was very proud of him and impressed with the both of us. I told him I just feel like I kick the ever-living hell out of myself when I hear I’m doing something the wrong way, and when I feel monitored, and he told me he didn’t want me to feel that way; he grabs my hand as we are speaking a lot and this feels very like a bonding behavior, and very good…like he’s reaching out to me. I do feel a lot more relaxed today.

    I think I might try next time seeing if what I think he meant when he spoke and what he really meant when he spoke are the same thing.



  58.  #58LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 3:51 am

    Ahasha – Commitment Blueprint



  59.  #59LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 4:04 am

    Akasha sorry, my phone did the auto spell on your name. Commitment Blueprint may be a good program for you



  60.  #60akasha on January 28, 2014 at 4:05 am

    @ lovealways thank you 🙂 does it tell me there what to do when I am broken up and initiating no contact since he doesn’t put any effort into anything other than call?



  61.  #61LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 4:05 am

    ((((((Lisa)))))))



  62.  #62LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 4:09 am

    Akasha – yes, it goes into leaning back and why. Your emotional soup of feelings, healing that desperation (like wanting to call) and soooooo much more. I got the program when I was feeling like calling, texting, going over to him . . . Doing



  63.  #63LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 5:46 am

    I just feel like sharing this and putting it out there to the universe because it speaks to me. It put the logic into the feeling for me – as I drop my thoughts, the feeling from reading this piece still resonates in my body (it’s long):

    ONCE A LIAR/CHEATER ALWAYS A LIAR/CHEATER?

    Our response to this question comes from the level of pain that’s been inflicted by the person who lied or cheated. The reason we cut these people out of our lives is to avoid having that level of pain inflicted again, which makes sense.

    Determining that someone is beyond hope is not our call to make, but giving someone second chances without actual evidence of change is risky at best, foolish at worst. What you have to determine is the level of appropriate boundary based on the circumstances, not your reaction to it colored by previous pain.

    “Lying” and “Cheating” come in degrees and we have all done both to some degree. We have all said things to spare someone’s feelings and all broken agreements we’ve had with someone at some time, even if it was just with ourselves (how much we’d spend on a gift or what we’d allow ourselves before dinner).

    Our response to a behavior always needs to be in line with our own risk tolerance. A relationship is the most risky thing we can do, and 1/3 of people opt out of this risk altogether by remaining single. Relationships are inherently risky – we risk heartbreak, sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy and often financial exposure.

    So our question needs to be, “Can I handle the risks?” not “How do I guarantee that I won’t be hurt?” That’s not a risk we can eliminate, but there are ways to screen for behavior that is indicative of hurtful behavior before we’re fully exposed.

    Someone with nothing to hide hides nothing. They don’t have their phone screen hidden, their computer locked or keep secrets. They don’t have private conversations or disappear without explanation into the washroom, for late work nights or long trips without being in regular contact if they’re in a serious relationship.

    (Please note – it is not OK to look into people’s private communication to satisfy our curiosity or suspicions in cases other than criminal behavior. If you want proof that your partner is cheating then hire someone who does this within the boundaries of the law. If you’re right you’ll have the evidence and if you’re wrong you won’t have to live with the guilt of crossing their boundaries – or worse, get caught by them doing it and now be the violator of them.)

    Even the most intuitive of us can be taken in by someone highly skillful in manipulative behavior. What we’re in control of is our reaction when it happens, not preventing it from ever happening to us. The reason people cheat and lie is because they feel unlovable as their genuine self, so the greater tragedy is theirs, not yours.

    Not everyone can change. There are people who no amount of pressure or pain from life will break them free from the corner they feel painted into. Even if you’re an expert on human behavior, the most important thing to do is to set your boundaries not attempt to predict whether or not they’ll change.

    Personally, the pain I feel from this motivates me to ensure that I do an amazing job with my kids so even though they are strong-willed, I implement boundaries and consequences early enough that the pressure on their young self is greater than the benefit of the behavior.

    So what do you do with an adult who is stuck lying and cheating? You move on. Your job is not to save the world, but to live a life contributing your gifts to those who have the ability to receive them.

    You don’t give second chances – you let people go and if by some circumstance they show back up in your life as a radically different human being, one who has shifted their consciousness through the pressure the consequences of the behavior had, you may choose to engage with this entirely new version of them – or not.

    This refusal to believe in change without evidence is what changes people’s lives, second chances do not. Giving someone the opportunity to hurt you the same way a second time without absolute evidence that you can trust them is simply inviting them to lull you into trust before it happens again.

    Their change can never be based on your willingness to take them back, it has to be for them. Period. Full stop. They must accept that their previous actions have permanently destroyed certain opportunities in life and choose to move on with that being a lesson, not the carrot dangling as the prize once they do. The prize is the character of person they become, not the relationship they secure.

    This kind of change requires a radical shift in consciousness that changes everything about the nature of the person. Once they shift they may even decide that you’re not the best relationship for them to have and move on – it’s that big a difference.

    It’s not much worth wondering if they can change or not. Your question needs to be, “What level of boundary do I need to establish with this person? If I DO choose to have them remain in my life at all, what things do I need to see that would be absolute ongoing evidence that they have radically changed and aren’t able to hurt me like this?”

    Promises are worthless. Evidence is found only in behavior.

    The real focus of life is ourselves, not others. We’re the only one that we control and if we’re being hurt often, or feel we need to live a highly protective life to avoid being hurt then we need to look inside to see what we’re doing that leads us to attract these quality of relationships.

    We’re in charge of the interview process for the people we allow in our lives. We’re in charge of the standards we insist on for those permitted to be in a relationship with us and particularly those allowed into our homes, our hearts and our beds. If you’re getting hurt, stop ‘hiring’ until you’ve raised your standards and have a more thorough interview process.

    Bad relationships aren’t a sign that everyone around you is low quality or untrustworthy, it’s a sign that the way you bring people into your life needs work. And most profoundly, even if there isn’t an ideal partner who has stepped up in life to meet your standards, by not settling for less than the standard you’re living yourself the right man will step up and meet you there when he has no other choice.

    You’re weren’t born to be ordinary. Don’t settle. Raising your standards changes the world.

    Graham R White ~o What Evolved Women Want

    https://www.facebook.com/WhatEvolvedWomenWant



  64.  #64LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 5:47 am

    leaning back
    walking away
    putting myself first



  65.  #65LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 5:48 am

    A quick healthy trip into the pits
    feeling my feelings
    Yet I feel GOOD
    hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I’m in the pits and I feel all the pain and awful things, but I feel good
    the memories are bad, but there are good memories, and that is what the pit is, a mixture of thoughts pushing at my feelings. I feel a lot of things, but at the end of the feeling, I feel good



  66.  #66LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 5:52 am

    “Evidence is found only in behavior.”
    I lean back, but then I decide to walk away, and it feels good. And I have walked away forever. Not open to accept him as a CD anymore. This is the toxic person to completely walk away from. Hmmmmmm
    going to check out Toxic Men today to see the statement Rori made that I’m feeling here.



  67.  #67LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 5:54 am

    “Raising your standards changes the world.”

    This is a higher degree of difficulty – makes the CDing process easier because I put myself in a position to feel what I don’t like or want. I step away from drama and the men and women who live and perpetrate it. Avoiding Their Drama. I like how that statement feels . . .



  68.  #68akasha on January 28, 2014 at 5:58 am

    @Lovealways thanks for sharing that 🙂 I think that you are very strong for walking away from anyone/anything that is even remotely toxic for you.



  69.  #69Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 6:06 am

    @LoveAlways thanks for sharing that! I like Graham White….

    I agree though I have a different perspective here than others… if I feel they are hiding something, I don’t trust until I have proof otherwise… I lean back and pay attention…. and wait until I feel things are back on track….

    Too much on the line if I just trust a man ( even though my gut tells me something isn’t right) until I know otherwise…

    thanks!!!!

    OXOXO



  70.  #70LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 6:11 am

    “People unfold. What you ‘know’ at the start is an impression. They unfold and that means that there’s nothing wrong with revising your perception of someone or a situation.”

    https://www.facebook.com/baggagereclaim
    December 29, 2013

    I don’t want to “unfold” I want to express how I feel so that there is not guessing, no surprise. If a man is connected to me, or trying to connect, he will hear my feelings and his perception of me, of the real me, right then and there at the moment is REAL. What do you think about this? What do you feel about this?



  71.  #71Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 6:12 am

    @Cupcake #50 Hehehheee I could say that… I usually don’t initiate……I know they do have planes… and I’m not looking for a long distance ( that is way,way long distance) relationship….

    but it might be fun to see how he responds to a e-mail….

    OXOXO



  72.  #72Waterfall on January 28, 2014 at 6:14 am

    Hi Siren,

    Just catching up on the blog…

    (((((Lisa)))))

    Zia congrats !



  73.  #73LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 6:16 am

    Lisa
    I feel you. I feel that way too. I’m trying something new now in my life, a newer approach, something deeper –

    I’m trusting myself. And that does not mean not trusting a man, but in leaning back, I’m preserving my space (I guess that is a boundary?) to be safe. His entrance into that safe space, and his remaining in that space it of his own volition and will. But it’s my safe space. It’s in my own bubble, and I won’t offer it out to anyone and I will step away if I don’t like what I feel about them in my safe space. This is my new process of trust. I have to keep saying to myself that it is all about me because in my past I have always lost myself to to man/relationship. There has to be a way to be me, and open up and receive (my new concept of share) without losing myself. So in not losing myself, I am keeping my safe space – I am trusting me. What he does cannot impact that safe space of mine.



  74.  #74Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 6:38 am

    @LoveAlways Yes!!! <3<3

    OXOX



  75.  #75Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 7:47 am

    LoveAlways – 63 – thank you for posting the article by Graham White.

    I didn’t contact/lean forward with BM – I stayed with me. I decided that I wanted to save that space for someone who wants and enjoys keeping in contact with me. Or just keep that space as a reminder that I’m living and growing into my life. Weeks ago it seemed impossible to not contact and to feel positive about my life at the same time – I’m growing : )



  76.  #76LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 8:03 am

    Veronica

    That’s beautiful! You did not lose yourself in him or the relationship! I want to grow to experience and do that too!! Motivating!! Thank you <3



  77.  #77Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 8:53 am

    LoveAlways – I’m unable to to send to the email address you provided me. Do you have another one I can use?

    xxoo



  78.  #78Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:09 am

    surferchica – 34 – Yes I understand, yet sometimes the other person is unable or unwilling to hear, so one has to learn to be okay with a “no” showing up in this way.

    When faced with a situation as here when there is a sort of “no” showing up, then going inside to see what the resistance to the “no” is about is a good way to go. Most every situation, going inside, bringing things back to you is a good way to go.

    I don’t think there are any special situations where speaking your feelings is a better way to go. It could have been done here, if she chose to go this route, and the outcome might have been just as good.

    For example – I don’t feel heard/understood here, and this feels bad. OR I don’t feel hear/understood here, and I’m feeling unable to let this go. I don ‘t want to feel this way with you. Can you help me with this?

    It’s about experimenting, seeing what feels better to you in any given situation, learning to trust your intuition, feeling okay even if the outcome is not as good feeling as you would prefer.

    xxoo



  79.  #79Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Kyla – 36 – 🙂

    xxoo



  80.  #80Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:20 am

    Veronica – 51 – Awesome!!! I experienced something very similar.

    xxoo



  81.  #81Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Lisa – 55 – “She wants to get back to her life of being in awe of her surroundings… like the fact that 2 of my orchids are blooming… and usually that excites me… I get all giddy …… and being in awe of the sunsets… the clouds… babies, baby cows… all of it…”

    Maybe THIS is what you need right now. CD the world instead which can include engaging/flirting with men. You don’t have to date them if you don’t want to.

    What you wrote here is SO much more important and may very well be what’s missing from attracting what you want.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  82.  #82Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Akasha – 56 – Are you taking care of yourself in all of this, i.e filling your life up with things which make you feel good and people who make you smile. Is your focus on YOU more of the time?

    If you think you want to make this relationship work,
    how about looking within yourself, and in part this overfunctioning piece. Instead of going into overfunction, how about coming here to let it all out?

    How about being kind and gentle with yourself when you do fall into overfunctioning, and then redirect your course.

    This is all a process, a life long journey. When you focus is on you, when you learn to find your feelings and express them cleanly and in ways others can hear you, everything changes. You gain clarity on you and your situation as well.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  83.  #83Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Love Always – never mind, figured out the error. 🙂

    xxoo



  84.  #84LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Dominique – apologies for the typo. I just sent you another email 🙂



  85.  #85LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Akasha # 68

    Thank you, your comment made me feel happy and smiley! I’ve come a long way!

    I’m still learning how to put myself first and keep it that way, remain in that vibe.

    It feels good to keep me first.



  86.  #86Amber on January 28, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Good morning, Sirens!
    I feel happy and relaxed in my decision to lean way back when (T) rubber-bands away from me. I had a LONG conversation with a man I’ve been friends with for twelve years. He’s in an emotionally abusive marriage and i realized how thankful I am to have relatively easy choices. No kids, no shared finances. I am able to appreciate (at least intellectually, if not always emotionally) that (T) is providing me with EXACTLY what I need to heal myself. A big THANK YOU to the universe for always sending what I need. I feel blessed.



  87.  #87Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 10:21 am

    LoveAlways -76 – Thank you, I feel appreciated : ) BM and I broke up when we were still in love with each other so the post-breakup ‘what do we do since we both supposedly care about each other’ issue has been difficult – I don’t know what to call it, maybe failed friendship. So I can’t really lose myself in the relationship, but in him, yeah a very big temptation that I have to manage daily.

    It seems like you’ve changed lately, at least it seems sudden for me. It’s beautiful to witness.



  88.  #88Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 10:22 am

    @Dominique you have this way of just getting to my heart… I think your right… I attract men with that part of me… the awe inspired me and then somewhere along the way it fades due to either fear or lack of sleep, or sexual pressure from them or their issues etc…

    and it is missing in my life… I love that ME that dances in my living room floor… giggles uncontrollably at something I did…

    If I could just stay there when a man is in my life… when one isn’t – it is so much easier…..

    I’m afraid….. of something… it’s trying to surface… tears and tears are pouring down….

    it’s like I lose my spark …. b/c I take on their issues or their lack of zest for life and I allow it dampen me… wonder what it would look like if, I could be that me all the time without men changing it…? that would feel so freeing!!

    Awesome point! Dominique… after this big cry right now I feel unstuck! I feel peaceful and free again…

    Hummmm

    Thanks soooo much!!! Your right that’s what I need right now… get back to ME… and my orchids…my cats… my yard, my sewing… my life….

    OXOXOX



  89.  #89Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Dominique – 80 – If you don’t mind I would love to know, especially your insight on this experience. Did you write an article about it?



  90.  #90Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Lisa – 88 – You made my heart smile with this. 🙂

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  91.  #91LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Veronica

    You are very appreciated 🙂 And thank you for sharing your situation with your ex – this is the very same lesson I am just now embracing – and yes, that is the recent change – my understanding and embracing that I come first, put me first, me me me! I feel like a bratty 5 year old girl eating an ice cream and dancing around my parents singing . . . me me me! It is such a deep filling breath of cool air breathing life into me, blowing the cobwebs of confusion from my heart and mind. I embrace this vision because it makes me smile and remember WHO I AM and the greatness that was placed upon my path in life. The last piece of the puzzle for me has been affairs of the heart! That is why Rori and her programs have such a special place in my life. I am reaching for balance now, and I guess it shows, at least I feel it and it makes me happy to feel this way. Powerful yet sweet. 😀



  92.  #92Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 11:06 am

    Veronica – I have SO many articles around this. I don’t want to overwhelm here with them all, so I chose two. If you want the rest, let me know, and I will email them to you.

    http://sexandheart.com/changing-your-man/

    xxoo



  93.  #93Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 11:06 am


  94.  #94Dominique on January 28, 2014 at 11:08 am

    Bottom line Veronica, I have found that the more you let him be who he is, love him and accept him just as he is right now, and the more you take care of you, filling yourself up in ways which feel good, the more likely it is that he will want to be closer to you, share his deeper parts with you. And if nothing else, share his computer activities with you. 🙂

    xxoo



  95.  #95LoveAlways on January 28, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Opting out is the topic in Toxic Men I was referring to earlier. I found it again. It’s under “Your Stance” and “New Dream.” I feel so wonderful to rediscover this. I remembered it from the first time I watched the program. This feels so good.



  96.  #96Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    @Dominique You made me cry … it’s good that you have that effect on me… <3 Love to you!!

    I read on a friends facebook page last night when I couldn't sleep…. she is really big into TheWork and does it for a living… it said to pick up any book near you, go to page 45 and read the first sentence and that is your love life…

    I'm being vulnerable here: The book is "I Need Your Love" by Byron Katie

    pag 45 first sentence: When you say or do anything to please, get, keep, influence, or control anyone or anything, fear is the cause and pain is the result.

    so I sat with that…. and still sitting with it, but the thing I love about Rori's work is it just in alignment with my own work and process…with TheWork…and it is beautiful!

    so this week I'm going to be aware of – little things that might come up that I do to keep, influence or change something in my life… and see where that takes me…

    OXOXO



  97.  #97redbutterfly on January 28, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Lisa, I like the book idea! I am sitting here at work and picked up the book on my desk and it says “Depending on your configuration, you may be prompted by the SELECT TEMPLATES options dialog box.” I just had to giggle!! 🙂



  98.  #98Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    @Redbutterfly…. wow that is profound… I CAN find that one in my love life… yes big giggle…

    I’m tempted to select templates option often with men… LOL! Hummm special order him to the template of my liking…heheheeeee

    and yes depending on my configuration ( my default or my wise picker) heheheeeee

    Good one!!!

    OXOXOX



  99.  #99Kyla on January 28, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Lisa – “unable to come with anything better, I decided to lie through my teeth.” Ouch, not sure I like this game! Yet it’s true, I spent most of my last relationship lying to myself that I was happy when in reality I was feeling disillusioned and heartbroken.



  100.  #100Sophie on January 28, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    I had ‘your power comes through the use of your mind’ 🙂 – ohhh yes I could definitely be accused of having done some negative rather than positive creating right now – all bound up and driven by pmt-fuelled anger – everything’s been very speedy and busy I feel very achy like i’ve done several rounds in a boxing ring – not cool I’m going to pull my energy back deep inside and find a calm and peaceful place xx



  101.  #101Sophie on January 28, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    ha ha Kyla – I love that you pulled insight from that 🙂 xx



  102.  #102Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    Page 45, Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace-

    “- when he was in there, showering, going out naked and putting shoes on and trying to conventionally squash it, and the result was explosive.”

    From the previous page, it appears that it’s about a problem with enormous roaches in the bathroom.

    Hmmm…



  103.  #103Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    @Cupcake HUMMMM :-0 Giggle… not sure about that… what do you think?

    today was a not very productive day with work.. and some production with the house… and time with my child was good…. and I had to sleep today b/c I didn’t sleep last night.. was able to sleep at 3:30a…

    But emotionally I think it was productive…. i’ve had some MAJOR realizations the past few days…

    and I’m wondering about doing the work on “I need a man’s love”… to feel complete…to feel fulfilled.. etc…

    and I’m feeling I might go and read the BK book “I Need Your Love” book… Is that True” book

    I don’t want to settle and yet part of me wants to… and with “D” that urge came on strong… and I hear but, but, he was this and he was that, you’ve never had that before….and it’s been so long….and it felt so good…

    Yes, it did feel good and then it didn’t…quite make the cut when it came down to it… he isn’t available for a comittment… and he isn’t close by and I DO not want to go through another relationship where the man is distant either right in this city distant or long distant… and what do I get out of having men that are distant?

    I get distance… I get unavailability, I get to want, and pine and yearn… which all brings me to NOT having…that is what I get out of it…

    Maybe having is too Da&mn scary…or in my case ( life has shown me this time and time again) If I have it… and it is wonderful and I’m happy, it will be taken away from me…

    “D” was only a weekend and a month of daily talking… I don’t know how much of the real him I saw… so it makes NO sense to pine over only a fraction of something I think I have…

    and really all I’ve learned doing my inner work is that I have everything I need right now! I’m not lacking anything even a man…

    XOXOXO



  104.  #104Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    @Kyla

    Lisa – “unable to come with anything better, I decided to lie through my teeth.” Ouch, not sure I like this game! Yet it’s true, I spent most of my last relationship lying to myself that I was happy when in reality I was feeling disillusioned and heartbroken.

    Wow profound I can find that too… lie through my teeth to myself… yes! Totally!!!!

    OXOXOX



  105.  #105Andrea on January 28, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    Oh my gosh!! I found an old journal I’d been writing in about two years ago. I went 45 pages into it and:
    “I know I’m able to love these men, to promote the sanctity of their beautiful selves, but also, angrily I feel stifled, as though loving them is changing me. I feel burdened because being with any of them always meant I was safe from the explosion of my own ecstatic adventures. The adventures I want to be on, the ones in which they… none of them… can ever come.”

    Jeesh!!! A message from my past. In the next paragraph I write: Drop everything else. I want my own ecstatic adventure. It is time.



  106.  #106Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    The whole Men & Dating question seems backburner to me suddenly.

    I think about dating and I want to just throw my hands up in the air. I need a job. I need to know where I’ll be living in three months. I need a plan. I have been like a newspaper blowing down the street for months!!!

    Sometimes I feel like a bad fairy at my christening invoked the spell that my life would be a series of short stories, not a novel like everyone else’s life.

    (Uh-oh. May have to re-write that story, too.)



  107.  #107Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Lisa #103-

    About my page 45…I know, right? It certainly conjures up an image…. 🙂

    I remember reading a book about affirmations (“I Deserve Love” I think was the title) where this woman was daily affirming “Men call me all the time” and she had to stop affirming that because she kept getting wrong numbers and drunken hang up calls at odd hours.

    Lisa, I’m going out on a limb here…when I read your posts, the feeling I get is that for you the work is about self-esteem. I mean, it is for ALL of us, and I feel very aware that my perception of that in you comes from my awareness of it in myself. Sometimes when I read your posts, it makes me feel like you are Alice falling through the rabbit hole…falling and falling. (The posts I’m thinking of are the ones you’ve written when you were crying a lot.)

    Sometimes it feels like you fall because you don’t believe there’s anywhere safe for you to land. Does that make sense?

    All the advice is like, “Go get a manicure.” “Do something wonderful for yourself!” etc. And I believe that taking those actions are important. And yet…it doesn’t feel like those actions ever make a difference unless there’s an inner “click” about why we’re taking them.

    I’m thinking about all the really positive things Liquid Light’s been doing over the last couple weeks. It doesn’t feel like it’s because she’s going dancing and getting hot new clothes that she feels wonderful. It feels like it’s because she’s feeling wonderful that she’s going dancing and getting the hot new clothes, and then it all synthesizes and rolls together into a new Liquid Light.

    So I guess I’m just saying…it feels to me like the Self Love part would be the safe place for you to land. And maybe I’m way off here. I’m trying to articulate something ephemeral about your energy through the page.

    I want to picture you landing, slowly, safely, on a giant daisy. Taking a soft quiet nap there on a lovely summer day, and then waking up with a smile to say, “Ah. Yes. This feels wonderful.” I see you walking barefoot in sweet-smelling grass, dressed in the most beautiful chiffon gown, picking wild-flowers and making yourself a bouquet. See you as a graceful, grounded, happy Disney princess, enjoying yourself with woodland creatures.

    Not Alice, falling and ending up in a weird world. Aurora, in the forest, before the apple and the sleep and then waking up to True Loves First Kiss.

    (I know. My own Disney mythology overtakes this wish for you. In my language, it’s just the best Archtypal wish I can offer.)

    Cupcake



  108.  #108Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    @Andrea WOW! How profound… WOW…. that is amazing…

    I can certainly find that too!

    Thanks for sharing!

    OXOXO



  109.  #109Sophie on January 28, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    I want ecstatic adventures but I’d love a man who wanted them too…is that possible? I want to know peoples thoughts on how much is possible and how much will always be some sacrifice? either/or

    I love the Alice image Cupcake – it made me think of a picture I saw recently of Alice and Dorothy from Oz – all beautiful and innocent and sitting on a bench having a girly chat and dorothy has a speech bubble that says ‘wow i’ve seen some weird ‘expletivebleeep’ but they are still so lovely and beautiful and ‘whole’ somehow – I like that – the weird bleeeppp we see and experience doesn’t have to taint us xxx



  110.  #110April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Can’t help continuing to ponder on Rori’s posting.
    It appears to be a rare instance in which a woman puts a man’s feelings before her own.

    Or maybe I’m obsessed by the idea of a woman having to have her feelings ‘calmed’ and made happy again.



  111.  #111Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    @Cupcake Awww thanks so much for the wonderful advice and vision of me landing on a soft daisy… in a field of daisies…. safe!!!

    What I can say is that with The Work… I do… there is no fear of going into the deep dark areas… b/c out of that can only come some sort of light and inner peace… I don’t have any type of resistance at all for going as deep as I can into the darkest areas of me… the splinters are there… I find them, love them and then I feel the peace and contentment that goes with that work…

    I do the things such as Liquid Light talks about, though I don’t do manicure’s… I do things for myself yes! What I can afford… I save up and go to the Opera…that I love… or hot baths… with candles… I don;t post it though….but in reality that only works if, that inner peace goes along with it… your so right!!!

    I know that my posts seem dark to others, not to me… they just are my feelings in that moment. I suppose I don’t put as much weight on them as possibly everyone on the blog… b/c to me it is a fleeting thing… the pain comes, I cry it out, then it is gone, peace comes.. and it is a eb and flow thing…… I don’t need to be happy all the time… I just need to accept reality… and be in the moment….however it presents itself…

    I think if I lived in duality and believed in negative and positive I might see it as a negative thing my posts… when I’m crying… but to me there is no such thing… it is only “my feelings” in that moment, nothing negative about them…

    thoughts come, they stay sometimes, then they go… sometimes they cause me pain, and suffering and other times they cause me joy and laughter… I guess what I’m saying is… I just allow whatever I am in any moment to BE… what it is…and I don’t need to get out of it… b/c it Always has something important to tell me… just like every man I encounter has something for me… as Rori says… a gift…

    I hope I’m not rambling here…

    I do feel loved and heard and I so appreciate your vision of me… and I’ll continue to imagine myself lying on a daisy in a field of daisies safe and peaceful!!!

    and I have something now to ponder … “there is no safe place for me”… might be great for me to look at that.. Thanks!!!

    <3 <3 <3



  112.  #112April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    First line on page 45 of ‘Setting Up and Managing your own Coffee Bar’

    “The problem with this is you generally have worked very closely with your own pet suppliers, and when the time comes for pig-headed determination to be applied to a shop fitter or catering equipment supplier, you know the standards you are prepared to work with.”

    ? !!



  113.  #113April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    Andrea,

    Is that how you write in your journal?
    Wow. Such beautiful language and depth. Feels amazing to read.



  114.  #114April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:46 pm

    Cupcake,

    Your love life involves naked men and explosive results…
    Whoah girl !!



  115.  #115Sophie on January 28, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    There might be something in that April Rose? Knowing your own standards?…that’s been a bit thematic for you hasn’t it? xx



  116.  #116Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    Naked men and explosive results… I’m game for that…. Yes! Sounds fun, exciting…adventurous 🙂

    it is plural too… men not man… LOL!

    OXOXO



  117.  #117April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    Ohmygosh Cupcake,

    I just read your posting to Lisa and I remembered a recent revelation I had….

    Where did it come from? … it must have been a teleseminar… it will come back to me…

    Anyway, i finally learned the difference between self-esteem and self-love.

    Self-esteem is when you know you’re smart, or that you look good, or that you’re capable, or good at anything. It’s an ego thing.

    Self love is something else. It comes from the soul. There are no requirements. With self love I need do nothing. I love myself deeply just for being here, and for being uniquely me.

    When you feel good things about yourself, and there’s no ‘reason’ for it, it’s the beginning of unconditional self love; of falling in love with yourself.



  118.  #118April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    Yeah, Sophie,

    My standards are super-high.

    But I drop them to allow imperfect men to come close to me.

    Hmmmm.



  119.  #119April Rose on January 28, 2014 at 4:59 pm

    When I say imperfect, I mean not perfect for me.

    Yet I guess in some ways they must be right (I’m learning something and growing).
    I feel weary of that now! I want he who is right for me.



  120.  #120Zia on January 28, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Last night I did my weekly “me time” thing… this time around I know how important it is to not let that slide. And I found I really needed it! Even though I’m leaning back quite happily, having one more person or thing in my life to give my attention to makes a big difference, and I need to make sure I bring it back to me. Feels nice 🙂



  121.  #121Amber on January 28, 2014 at 5:51 pm

    Hi Sirens-

    It, Stephen King, p45
    Even if Stan had been privy to some of this information, he surely could not have believed they would give the job to a young, bespectacled Jew who also happened to be a damyankee-a Jew with an easy grin, a hipshot way of walking, a taste for bell-bottomed jeans on his days off, the last ghosts of his adolescent acne still on his face.

    I’m taking this one with a grain of salt, but geez, this is FUN.

    Love to you all!



  122.  #122Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    April Rose #112-

    That’s perfect! You know your standards for your pet suppliers!

    Love it!



  123.  #123Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    #117- April Rose

    Thank you for sharing that about self-esteem and self-love.

    It feels true.



  124.  #124Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    Kyla-

    How are you today? I have been thinking about you and wondering how the fallout is feeling re yesterday with DrWho.

    Sending you good thoughts.



  125.  #125Amber on January 28, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    Lisa-103

    Maybe having is too Da&mn scary…or in my case ( life has shown me this time and time again) If I have it… and it is wonderful and I’m happy, it will be taken away from me…

    Wow, how this resonates with me! This is my deepest, darkest fear. I feel like i have to sink into ACCEPTING it a hundred times a day. Thank you for sharing, Lisa!



  126.  #126Amber on January 28, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    Cupcake-106

    Of course our lives are a series of short stories. That doesn’t mean when we publish our life, it’s not a book!



  127.  #127Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    @Amber your welcome!
    and funny as I read it on your post… I got this feeling inside…well that is a crazy belief b/c even when I don’ t have it.. ( meaning men that aren’t making me the happy.. I want) I still don’t want to lose them…

    very ironic… like with “M”… as messed up as things seemed with him… if he hadn’t wanted to break up with me… give up… I’d of stayed… and I didn’t want to lose him…. and though I wasn’t the “One” for him….. I loved him ( still do) and therefore didn’t want it to be taken away..

    Oh gosh I think I just made a mess of what I’m trying to say…

    my point is I love who I’m with.. and though I wasn’t that happy… b/c my needs and feelings weren’t being cherished… I still didn’t want to lose it…

    So how silly is that belief… when love isn’t even holding on … love is hands open palms up.. freedom… holding on is something else… so you can’t lose something you never had…

    OH dear here I go again…spouting off… I’m way to open on this blog… I just pour myself out…

    OXOXOXO



  128.  #128Kyla on January 28, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Thanks Cupcake! I am trying my best to keep him out of my head. I feel all hormonal and attached and sad and icky when I do think about him for a moment, I don’t want to feel like that, so I stroke my arms and notice the pretty-whatever-happens-to-be-nearby to shift my focus quickly back to feel good stuffs. I feel curious about it all, this is brand new territory for me and I’m feeling excited to be out of my comfort zone and walking this edge too.. It feels brave and different and it seems I’ve uncovered new tender spots and triggers that were hidden before. I’m feeling better that maybe I didn’t actually regress, I went to a deeper level.. I’m choosing to receive this precious gift with love and appreciation.. for me, for him, for my feelings and for all the wonderful triggers that keep opening me up layer by layer. I feel sleepy and drifty dreamy now, night sirens xxx



  129.  #129Tereana on January 28, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    Liquid Light – I loved reading about your new heels! (#26) How was the date??

    So, sirens…

    I guess this a timely post. I checked back in, because I decided, no matter how I was feeling, and even if I felt like I needed a little time off, I still wanted to choose connection. I wanted to choose community.

    This feels different than what I seem to be doing in most of the rest of my life. I keep pushing people away. My mother, my aunt, my ex-bfs. New potential bfs. Just whoever gets too close to me, I push away. And the people who are at a safe distance, they are fine.

    But I still need and want connection. I value my alone time, and I really need this time to focus on myself and truly give myself and my life the attention it needs and deserves. But at the same time, I crave physical contact and closeness. I miss that…

    I was writing about S for myself. Journaling, kind of. I decided to just write out the story of what happened with us, as I experienced it. It wasn’t a letter, but I wrote it as if I were telling him the story, from my perspective. It felt pretty good to write it. But there was a piece missing.

    I think it’s what Rori is getting at with this post. “Mirroring” back to someone, repeating what they say without judgment is actually harder than it sounds. Maybe harder for some than for others. In the past, when I’ve not felt heard, I’ve requested that my mother repeat back to me what I’ve just said to her. Invariably, she will say something that she has interpreted me to have said (which wasn’t what I said). She will say, “You meant X.” Or she will say, “You want Y.” Those are NOT mirroring. In fact, if you are going to mirror someone, try as little as possible to NOT “put it into your own words.” Don’t filter AT ALL.

    Mirrors don’t actually give us judgment. We judge our reflections. But to be a mirror, you actually just need to reflect back what the other person said, with zero interpretation. THAT is when someone feels heard. And if you do it for them, chances are, they will find it easier to “hear” you – even if they don’t do it in that moment. Ok, theoretically.

    So anyway, what I meant by mirroring being the missing piece is that, with all of my wanting to “tell” S my story – with all of my wanting to feel seen and heard – I have not been at all reflecting back what he said to me. I have been passing by what he said, RESPONDING to what he said, but largely ignoring it. I don’t like what he said. But I do like the idea of mirroring.

    Sometimes we think we look great, but then we catch a reflection of ourselves and see that our hair is all out of place, and it gives us a chance to adjust.

    But if we are being a cloudy mirror, or being a flash bulb, instead of a mirror, then we are not giving a chance for the other person to see themselves.

    Hm, yes. I’m very glad that I’ve jumped back on the blog…it’s nice to be able to process here



  130.  #130Amber on January 28, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    Tereana -129
    “But if we are being a cloudy mirror, or being a flash bulb, instead of a mirror, then we are not giving a chance for the other person to see themselves.”

    OOhhh! I’m so glad you jumped back on, too!
    I needed exactly those words. Thank you!



  131.  #131Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    quiet night to myself… ummmmm I needed it…no man calling me asking me out…no sound really at all..

    Well except I finished listening to Helena’s interview… deep breathe!!!

    Hot bath next… and bed early…

    what came to me listening to the interview and then just sitting with myself… allowing anything and everything to surface… tears came as I looked at a photo a male friend of mine took of me under a waterfall BEING by myself! with the water coming down over … not getting wet.. I have my soft holy jeans one and was just peaceful… and then the tears came… I just want a man that I can do things with… and I don’t mean a friend man.. I mean a man – lover- partner man…have fun with… my whole love life consists of man after man after man of NO – do’s they tell me they will and then as soon as they get me – they tell me they won’t and it really has ended up me doing most everything alone… and it really is just wanting a true companion.. not just a person to fill a chair.. a sex partner.. to be a therapist of a sounding board… it’s me really having this deep desire to have someone to do things with… share things with , romantic and otherwise… someone that REALLY wants to be with me and know me…

    and what I’ve gotten is far from that…

    In Helena’s interview… I realized that I’m the woman seeking an interview… though I do not chase men.. and I can be feminine But I’m SEEKING a companion – partner – relationship… and maybe just in my seeking it… I’m pushing it away…

    “D” was the closest I’ve come.. he likes to really be active, he isn’t lazy… he finishes what he starts… and he was fun and adventurous and silly and spontaneous… and part of me didn’t want to let that GO… it is hard…to let it go when you;ve longed for it all your life…

    I read Graham White’s What evloved women want and Helena’s newsletter about the right one will do what it takes to be with you… I can’t fathom that.. I just can’t… I can’t !!! I just don’t think that that man exists… men think I’m amazing! They say I’m beautiful and sexy and fun and a bright light – they say my eyes are just so lite up and I’m so alive ( I’m repeating what they say, this isn’t about an ego thing) I know I’m a prize… I have a LOT to offer a good man… I can rock his world.. but even though these men say all these things (and true they could just be making it up and not mean it- but I believe they do) they let me go so easily…. like I’m a dime a dozen… and so I just can’t fathom a man ( that I’d want to be with- other than the ones that disgust me and are weird) a good man wouldn’t let me go! Would do what it takes to be with me… I know I’m unique and not disposable.. but apparently they do…..because they all say your amazing and then they let me go…

    So this must be my issue… it isn’t that I don’t love myself… I do.. and I could go on and on with proof of that… but I just don’t think that a good man ( that I would want to be with) is going to REALIZE it….and move mountains if need be to have me and keep me… that happens in fairy tales and Rori and others… I can’t imagine it happening to me… so I guess… I want to grab what is closest to it… and try and hang on to it..

    “M” told me he was that man! I believed him! I did… I really thought he was the man that would fly to mars to be with me… I was wrong…

    the air gets let out of the balloon very shortly after it inflates in my life….

    could it be that I don’t feel I deserve it… maybe.. ??? Maybe I just have never felt that lucky… and it feels like Luck to me… b/c it isn’t something I can make happen… like creating a dress from my mind… that I can make happen…..this is not in my hands… I don’t know for sure there is a “ONE” for me…. other than myself… that is the only “ONE” I know of…

    OXOXO



  132.  #132Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 7:53 pm

    oh dear I didn’t mean to type seeking an interview… I mean seeking a relationship…oopsy..



  133.  #133Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    #125 Amber- and Lisa-#103

    My fear, too, that wonderful things end.

    And maybe that’s the whole thing- The things we defend against are the things that happen. Because by defending against them, we’re expecting them, and if we’re expecting them, we’re inviting them.

    You get what you expect, and you expect what you invite.

    Doesn’t it feel bizarre when you survey the field of your friends and see all these people who are in relationships that just fall into place? These “civilians” who don’t soul-search and write on blogs?

    My cousin called me the other day, complaining because her fiance never does the chores she gives him. “The only time he did everything I asked him to do was once when I gave him a list. THEN he got everything done and it was a huge help. He LOVED the list! But that’s the ONLY time he’s ever done what I asked him to do!”

    “He did it when you made the list? And he loved having a list?”

    “Yes!” she said. “It’s maddening!”

    “Then…why don’t you just make him a list?” I asked.

    “I shouldn’t HAVE TO!” she said. “Why should I have to make him a list, to get what I want??”

    “Because…it WORKED. Because it actually GOT you what you want.”

    She got mad at me. Really mad at me.

    I don’t understand this. I said to her, “Look, I don’t like carrying car keys. I don’t carry a purse, and I don’t always have pockets, and it bugs me that I have to carry car keys with me wherever I go. But if I don’t, then when I get in my car, it doesn’t start. If I want to drive my car, I need to carry the keys. It’s a minor inconvenience that results in a huge convenience. So I do it.”

    Anyway. I see people who are in relationships without having had to effectively research and write a graduate school dissertation on the subject – which is what all of us are doing, practically- and I just don’t understand it. Everyone you see walking around out there is the product of two people being in a relationship. Relationships everywhere.

    And I feel puzzled because I am SOOOOOO good at friendship. I have such wonderful friends. And I just haven’t been able to get the boyfriend thing down.

    My ex from 25 years ago who is now like my brother says that I let them know they have me. Then there’s no challenge.

    And another guy friend says, “Someone will love that, in you. The right person will see that for the warm, beautiful gift it is.”

    And then I read what you guys wrote, Lisa and Amber, about your fear that the wonderful thing will just go away. Actually, I think the paradigm I’m fighting is “That kind of love is for other people.”

    Like in Blackadder, when Hugh Laurie as George IV says, “Socks are like sex- Plenty around, but I never have any.”

    I’m going to have to think about that.



  134.  #134Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Amber- #126

    Thank you for that. I appreciate it more than you know.



  135.  #135Amber on January 28, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    I have a date to go square dancing on Saturday night. I’m SO excited. Not about the guy (K) because frankly, he bores me, but he ALWAYS comes up with the greatest ACTIVITIES! I thought he’d disappeared last week when I told him I wanted the weekend to pamper myself but today he contacted me like I’d never blown him off and he’d never responded snarkily to my needs. The big lesson here is that I DIDN’T care if I never heard from him again, and here he is. There is a lesson here, about creating space for a man to step into. I am going to keep practicing giving myself WHAT I WANT, even if that’s a weekend alone, and allowing my men to be okay with that… or not. It is MUCH easier to practice when I’m not emotionally invested, but hey, I gotta start somewhere! Feeling jubilant!



  136.  #136Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    @Cupcake #133 WOW…. wonderful post as if I’m reading what I feel too…

    yes, people get dates they date and get married every day, and are happy and they aren’t studying for their PhD in relationship and I agree ( no offense here just my feelings) that we are writing our dissertation…

    I think maybe these men think they have me too, but they don’t… I mean even with “D” he didn’t even realize I had dates set up for the night after he left… and I’ve had lots of dates since then… so I’m confused as to how they think they have me… when I’m not chasing them, I don’t lean in except on occasion… I have other men trying to bump him out and dance with me when I was out with him, he sees other men looking at me… he knows I have men contact me almost daily online… so you could be right.. but I don’t want to be mean and say I have a date tomorrow night.. I just say, I’m going out… it almost feels like I have to be aloof on purpose to let them think they don’t have me.. when really they don’t…

    I didn’t answer the calls everytime he called and a few times I went to bed early and didn’t answer his calls at all.. and he would call and say, I’m sorry we didn’t get to talk, I miss talking to you. I hope we can talk soon, I’ll call you again tomorrow..

    and with “M” he was always having to watch for men coming on to me everytime we went out almost… so he knew…. that if he let me go, they’d be men after me right away and there was..

    I think maybe you’ve come on to something here… but I can’t figure out how – they think they have me… – when they don’t- hummm

    I know I have a high degree of difficulty… and I have good boundaries that aren’t hard boundaries… who knows….

    I’m so tired of trying to analyze my behavior around men….. and every date… uggg… it costs me dearly…. in sleep and time and mental focus…

    I think we have some of the same beliefs Cupcake.. <3

    OXOXOX



  137.  #137Lisa on January 28, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    @Cupcake I agree I create space…yes… and I’ve given myself weekends to myself and put off dates… some of which didn’t call back..but I didn’t really care… I needed time off … for my sanity and self care….

    and yes! it is easier to do it when I could care less if they call back or even go out… matter of fact… most of them I’d rather not go out again with them… but with “G” I’m making him wait 2wks in between… but then I’ve made it clear Friends… but I can tell he thinks something else will develop… even though I said, friendship is all I have for you…

    but my calendar is booking up a week in advance which is good… and most men are having to wait to go out with me… a week or more… and I know that is a put off.. but , I’m not cancelling plans to go out with them…

    maybe I’m just better off not being in a relationship… aside from my mind acting out when I’m hurting b/c I don’t have one… I’m totally happy and content with my life…and really would love more time for me… frankly.. to go do archery and do more designing and start painting etc… add that in and I have zero time for men…

    OXOXOX



  138.  #138Zia on January 28, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    One for all my sirens 🙂

    http://wildspicemag.com/yawp/youdeserve



  139.  #139Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    Lisa-

    Some thoughts.

    1.) I have a friend who once worked on a project with a blond musical celebrity who was recently on the Grammys. (Not sure if celebrity names send posts to moderation.)

    She said that there was something about said blond celebrity that just made people want to do things fo her. Not the celebrity status, but rather the quality that resulted IN the celerity status. The celebrity said, “I like your ring” and my friend had to fight the urge to whip the ring off her finger and give it to the celebrity. There was a quality of Self-ishness. Not “selfishness” but SELF-ishness that was irresistible and magnetic. She said it was as if, in the room with that celebrity, the very force of gravity shifted and everything was held into place by the celebrity. SHE was the center of the universe.

    My friend who told me this is not a star-struck person and knows many other celebrities. She is herself a minor celebrity. So…she was remarking upon it because it was such a peculiar feeling, and she wondered if that was the reason for this person’s resounding A-list stature which has endured an improbably long time in the fickle world of stardom.

    2.) My sister, who has an uncanny knack of wrapping men around her finger- UNLESS she is in love with them- says the trick is to always be thinking about another man. She says men can FEEL when you are thinking about another man and it drives them nuts and makes them want to “win.”

    Once when I had a phone call scheduled with Lord V., my sister suggested that I tape to my laptop, right next to the camera, the name of another man I find attractive. That way, when I talked to Lord V., I would have the other guy’s name there and it would remind me to not throw all my energy into the conversation with Lord V.

    Interestingly enough, whenever I forgot to think about the other guy, Lord V. literally leaned back in the phone call. (Skype– so I could see him.) As soon as I thought about the other guy, Lord V. immediately leaned forward.

    As the conversation went on and I observed this energy shift, I got real good at remembering to picture the other man in my head the whole time. It was a FANTASTIC conversation with Lord V. And weirdly enough, while I was talking to Lord V on the computer, my phone rang and it was the other man!

    3.) In “Why Men Love Bxxches”, she suggests that even when you’re sitting on a guy’s lap, to keep your energy 10 feet away.

    I think that what Rori is trying to teach us is that a Siren’s energy is self-contained anyway, not sloshing all over the place and spilling onto the guy’s shirtfront. I think it comes down to that. I think that’s what the “Bxxches” author is trying to tell us, there, too.

    4.) A guy friend once told me about breaking up with a girl. He said, “I want to break up.” And she said, “Yeah. It was getting kind of stale, anyway.” She spun on her heel and walked away.

    I knew the girl and I know that she was devastated. But he didn’t. (And I didn’t tell him!) What I took away from that was how much he respected her at the end, because she made it be about HERSELF and what she wanted, not needing his approval at all.

    5.) Once, a guy was coming over to my house to have a Taaaa-lk. My emotions felt really intense, and I knew I would overwhelm him with them, so I put a hair scrunchy on my wrist and made myself channel my emotional overflow into the hair scrunchy. As in the conversation with Lord V. mentioned above, I could see and sense a real difference in his response to me based on when I remembered to send overflow into the scrunchy.

    So maybe it has to do with that. With being grounded, looping the energy back around so it’s not like a direct electrical current between our hearts and theirs. Open, yes. Genuine, yes. Authentic, yes. Just not a power surge that short circuits the wiring.

    Maybe that’s why they get that we’re “all that” and wonderful, and yet it doesn’t feel comfortable to stick around. Because there’s energy surging all over the place. We blow open their heart chakras with too much.

    Okay. So that’s my homework for myself. To channel the energy back so it’s not a power surge coming at a guy.

    Lisa, what do you think about the above? Anybody else?



  140.  #140Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 9:25 pm

    #138
    Thanks, Zia! That was great.



  141.  #141Zia on January 28, 2014 at 9:26 pm

    Love what you’ve written there cupcake!



  142.  #142Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 9:26 pm

    Sophie- #109

    I like the Alice/Dorothy cartoon image!

    Tell us what’s going on in your life these days.

    Cupcake



  143.  #143Zia on January 28, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    I definitely feel a difference in my energy with this new guy. It feels contained within me, and I know what to do with it. I don’t feel like I’m emotionally “leaking” all over the place like I used to. I am not wondering what next or where… I am not wanting to know if it will go anywhere. I feel secure and I feel grounded and strong inside, and I am allowing myself to feel, and receive whatever it is he offers me and be gracious and thankful about it. Just from a couple of times spent together, I have already noticed where there were times that I might have jumped in, or made a comment, or said something that might have been emasculating, and instead I just went with option b) and that was to receive it and appreciate it. And it feels so much nicer. It’s so true about how much else just does not matter. All that matters is how we feel around that other person.



  144.  #144Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    Zia-

    Are you seeing other guys too?



  145.  #145Cupcake on January 28, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    Sirens-

    I just had an interesting image.

    Suppose we are like the giant balloons in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade. (Dibs on Bullwinkle!)

    Anyway- what I mean is- suppose we Sirens are giant, lofty amazing creatures.

    If a man were to try to walk us down 34th Street by himself– he would feel overwhelmed. We wouldn’t feel secure. It would be too much for him and not enough for us. He would let go, eventually, because it’s too much work to hold on to the cord all by himself. He couldn’t steer us. He couldn’t take all that on.

    Which is why Circular Dating works. It takes more than one man to harness our goddess-like selves. There are lots of men with cords, celebrating our amazingness. Maybe there’s one man in front, who’s the one who selects the parade route. And he can march along, showing us off, just feeling proud to be seen with us because there are other men helping keep us anchored.

    I’m not sure I described that as vividly as I saw it, but I hope you get what I’m saying.



  146.  #146Zia on January 28, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    Cupcake – nope. I actually stopped dating a while ago because I just didn’t have the time or energy for it. But at the moment I’m working part time, I’m a full time mum, have started my own business and am studying part time. So I barely have time to fit this guy in let alone any others – while my life isn’t full of men, it’s pretty full of all good things 🙂



  147.  #147Zia on January 28, 2014 at 9:53 pm

    Cupcake – I did a LOT of dating last year, practising all of Rori’s tools etc. 2013 was pretty much the year I chose to sort through all the issues that had me attracting the relationships I’d attracted. So while I’ve done the dating bit, I’ve not been in a relationship yet so anything beyond now with this guy is all new territory.



  148.  #148Veronica on January 28, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Iris – 16 – I only saw your post now. I’m glad that those ideas were useful to you in some way
    LoveAlways – 91 – I’m gushing when I read that you appreciate me.
    “It is such a deep filling breath of cool air breathing life into me, blowing the cobwebs of confusion from my heart and mind.”
    This is wow. Yes, there’s this poetic side of you showing up is what I’ve noticed.

    Dominique – 94 – I need this posted up somewhere in my room so that I’m reminded often. I struggle with this and I know even when I’m complaining to myself that so-and-so is not quite giving me what I need, that me is where I need to be at. I’m going to be reading your articles now, thank you so much for your voice and presence here.



  149.  #149akasha on January 29, 2014 at 12:01 am

    @Dominique thank you for your kind words. I am looking inside. I am trying to heal myself just for me, because if it doesn’t work out with S the problems I have internally will flare up with someone else too. So I have been making plans to start up oil painting classes again, and try to find an expat community here that will take my mind off S. The funny thing is, as my vibe gets better and happier I have all these guys coming out of the woodwork! This kind of makes me sad because I think I will have to move on, but if the Universe has a better match for me, I am all for meeting up with that person too.. From reading everything on this blog and seeing how much everyone is into their feelings and how everyone is trying so hard to make themselves better , I feel so excited with the prospect of being stronger emotionally and mentally.



  150.  #150akasha on January 29, 2014 at 12:06 am

    @Lisa when you wrote “it’s like I lose my spark …. b/c I take on their issues or their lack of zest for life and I allow it dampen me… wonder what it would look like if, I could be that me all the time without men changing it…? ” I couldn’t believe someone else felt like me! I feel like I am doing so well working on myself and being lighter freer happier, and then all the times I reconciled with S, his lack of energy and laziness and moping and negativity made me into a hermit too. And I think deep down I resent him for that even though it’s not his fault I lose my sparkle. I think we need to learn how to center ourselves and not lose ourselves in the energy of the man no matter if it’s positive or negative.



  151.  #151Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 1:03 am

    @Cupcake #139 I awoke out of sleep and cooked oatmeal for myself and it is 3:50a… so I decided to read my e-mails…

    I love your post…. very interesting… and my first reaction was wow maybe I’m focusing too much on being really present with the men I date…

    then I realized with “M” that I did focus on other men a lot…accidentally…and I even looked at other men when we went out…

    with “D” I would drift off now and then thinking of “M” and I even talked about other men I’d dated before…. so I wonder if that counts…

    and then part of me thinks wow if I have to do all this as long as I’m in a relationship think of other men and all, that’s alot to do… when what I want to do is be present in the now!!! more and more!!! that is why I do TheWork…

    I wonder though when I’m attentively listening to for instance “D” on the phone and empathizing with his situation and then moving on… if just the fact that I’m intently listening and empathizing is a put off… ???

    I’d rather be who I am which is someone that Is Present with whomever is in front of me… and giving them my undivided attention….. and not have to remember to think about another man, but then again, I have ADD and though at times very often after giving my undivided attention, my mind drifts off… on to something else…

    as for the celebrity thing… I can get that… I’ve had men say that when they are with me, they feel calm and peaceful and that I have a calming effect on them…and at times though and I haven’t figured this out yet, they know what I want and I don’t even have to ask… I’m so much an enigma… poooo I haven’t a clue… sometimes myself what is keeping me from having what other siren’s have…

    Thanks so much cupcake…lots to ponder on your post….. I’ll re-read it when it is more daylight and I’ve had more sleep….

    much love you!!!

    OXOXO



  152.  #152akasha on January 29, 2014 at 1:07 am

    Cupcake !!! oh wow. I can totally see how I am shortcircuiting my S’s energy and heart chakra and everything in between. I am naturally very in tune with other people feelings and have this tendancy to want to “fix” everything in my loved ones lives.. this translates to, oh you are sad here is my great big fat viscous energy and I am going to love you to bits and pieces (kind of like Elmira in Tiny Toons) but I end up suffucating them with my slimy smooshy energy. Not uplifting them but kind of getting them sticky and a mess. And of course they run away, I am mentally and energetically accosting them! Maybe they need to feel sad and depressive. I don’t have to fix anything or anyone other than myself and any other dependents I may have down the line (cat, baby etc). I think my problem is that I see S as a person that needs to be taken care of, when in reality I am just using that as an excuse to not take care of myself. … Wow, what an insight.. So instead of blasting S with my overzealous energy, I should wire it back to myself. And that in turn will be a magnet for anyone really searching for what I have to offer. Interesting..



  153.  #153Kath on January 29, 2014 at 4:19 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Its now been two weeks since we split up and then decided not to- things have sort of improved but I have been more distant because I don’t think he feels the same about me and I feel he has distanced from me still and is protecting his fragile ego (and I mean that in the nicest way). We agreed to go and see a mortgage Advisor and get some details of what we could get. Unfortunately I was proved right as I knew that he wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage and it would be just me, but of course I couldn’t tell him that because he thinks he knows. So now he is very disappointed and didn’t talk much last night and left the meeting thinking that he’d wasted the advisor’s time- whereas I thought it was a very positive meeting for me and confirmed that I have been doing all the right things to be in a position to get a mortgage. The thing is during the meeting the advisor asked him about pension and he said he had a military pension and that when he died I would get it. The Advisor queried that saying that he hadn’t heard that and that he was sure that I would only be entitled to any part of his pension if we were married. I know my so-called partner is now adamant that he doesn’t want to get married (to me or anyone else!) and this is a deal breaker for me. He thinks he is showing me his commitment to the relationship by buying a house with me. I totally disagree with that and have said that the biggest commitment he could make was to me as I would be to him. I am feeling myself pulling away from him and leaning back to the point where he is almost out of my vision altogether.

    When we got home last night and hardly spoke, I did try to keep things light but then checked Facebook and saw a few comments that he had made with his brother whom he went on holiday with ten years ago to Switzerland to celebrate his brother’s 40th. They’d been talking about the holiday and then he said “I can feel a road trip coming on for 2015 bro”. So I asked him whether that would be for his brother’s 50th, he paused, thought about it and then said “Yeah, I guess so”. I said he really should think before he speaks and that he perhaps should decide whether he wanted a female partner or a relationship because he couldn’t have his cake and eat it. We didn’t speak for the rest of the evening and I maybe said things in the wrong way but I am bored of feeling that I am just “fitting in” with what he wants to do. He made a comment that perhaps a year was enough notice for me to think about the holiday but my point is that we are supposed to be buying a house that he wants to renovate. He’d planted the seed about the holiday with his brother without even speaking to me and then assumes that I would want to go as well!- And its to a place that he took me to on our first holiday together only two years ago, so why would I want to go again with his brother in tow!!??- I feel really angry and disappointed but I am not displaying my anger- I am staying in control and then thinking carefully of the words to use when I see him later and if he wants to discuss it.



  154.  #154Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 4:39 am

    Hi Cupcake thanks for asking – I loved your story on the last post – infact i’ve spent lots of time writing my own story in my own head – it feels fun

    I am feeling confused and I am also feeling afraid

    The last week has been full of the end of the month tensions of juggling cash to cover all things – I have a lovely person moved in who so far hasn’t been here much so thank you universe. There was a time last week that felt very dark cos i was trying to run my businesses ive started up but my phone was broken so I was relying on B to lend me a charger – I can’t remember what we argued about but he withheld the charger and took the landline away cos its his – I felt very at his mercy and i felt infuriated and quite powerless – a friend lent me some money and so i now have a phone which is great

    After that. I was just full of anger really – i didnt feel like i could in anyway communicate with him – if I own responsibility to him for any of my part I feel that it gets used against me so the rage has just been bottled – add a hefty dose of pmt and I exploded yesterday when he gave me even less rent than the expected rent as he said he was really short cos his daughter is visiting

    I need to know where I stand with money I have it all strategically covered but only by the skin of my teeth – he said he thought I wouldve been more generous

    its hard to write this in the light of rori’s post! I didn’t take the comments from him well – Everyday I’m placing orders and writing articles and generally multi-tasking and i felt furious that he didnt see it as his responsibility to pay me right and on time

    I feel very afraid that it’s always going to be like this with me and men – I feel very afraid that i’m doing everything wrong – that there is something intrinsically wrong with me; that i’m the problem – I was feeding this feeling too as ive had some friends through the years who have decided not to be my friend anymore and that has felt hurtful to me because i’ve never really understood why…I have at least two who became resentful towards me when i couldn’t see that i’d done anything to cause the resentment – i’m sensitive – it gets me down

    then i was in a ball of confusion…i felt horrible about the rage – it felt really hating and I do not like to be in that energy – ever – then i was doing all my calculations to see if i could let him off some money but i was swinging between my desire to be kind and thinking if i give it to him then im just allowing him to not take responsibility – all the responsibility falls on my shoulders and i was furious that he seemed to have this attitude of i’ve got way more than him when actuallly im working for pennies and ive got a lot of debt and besides – my finances are not really any of his business I worked hard to have my house and if I want to rent it now for an income that’s my decision

    im feeling guilt now – im feeling like i lost sight of all that was good about B and it all got worse and worse xxx



  155.  #155Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 4:44 am

    I guess I kind of switch into ‘battle mode’ – time to stand down my soldiers…again 🙂



  156.  #156Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 4:47 am

    and the friends thing I have loads of close and lovely friends and recently ive been forming new friendships too so maybe i’m just changing and like men, women friends just wean themselves out but I still find it painful xxx



  157.  #157Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 5:15 am

    Lisa – 131 – Reading this along with all of your other posts over time, this came up for me. I may be totally off here, yet I want to put it out there for reflection.

    Are you maybe not allowing love in? Is there a layer or many layers still in your way? It would be fear creating this. And yes we all have fear, yet maybe yours is keeping what you want at arm’s length still. You’re so not alone in this by the way. Even as wonderful a relationship as I have and even after almost twelve years together, I still have fears in my way, not allowing as profound a love as I could have, so I continue to work my through my layers, and bit by bit, more and more becomes revealed, open, ready to receive.

    This may help some.

    http://sexandheart.com/showing-vulnerability/

    xxoo



  158.  #158Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 5:16 am


  159.  #159Zia on January 29, 2014 at 5:22 am

    Watching 27 Dresses tonight, haven’t watched it in years. And goodness me now I can absolutely SEE the difference between the two sisters and the way their behaving and the different kinds of energy.



  160.  #160Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 5:30 am

    Akasha – 152 – YES!!! Bringing things back to you is the way to go. It’s always about YOU in some way or another.

    xxoo



  161.  #161akasha on January 29, 2014 at 5:55 am

    I am feeling bad again like, oh ok I didn’t respond to his calls and text because I want him to actually put some physical effort into reconciling and not just calling me up whenever he feels the urge. I know I did good. I felt more powerful. I know I shouldn’t listen to the little voice inside me that keeps whispering “oh great you lost him now”. Because I want to break this cycle, I want more. I don’t want to just be willing to accept crumbs and have him string me along 🙁 I want to have more. I want a guy to work to keep his 2.5 year relationship and not just say ok you are right I didn’t care enough… I have to squash this little voice. I feel like an addict. So I have to lean way back even from my phone… Because I deserve more. I know it. But I feel like I ruined it. Sorry for ranting Sirens….



  162.  #162Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 6:06 am

    @Dominique

    You could be right… I’ve been told this by my ex ( my child’s father) that I have to keep men at arms length and that I will love them deeply but I won’t allow anyone to love me deeply… that is his perspective…

    I will do TheWork on it… I’m not worthy of Love… or I’m afraid of being loved… and see where it takes me… and yes, I’ll read your article! Thanks!

    I would suspect that if that is true that men would be able to sense that about me, and give up???

    Thanks so much for the observation!!!

    It just came to me that my mother is like that… iron clad…..hummm and maybe I’m convincing myself that I’m just being me… and in reality I’m just protecting me…

    OXOXO



  163.  #163Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 6:11 am

    “If she’s amazing, she won’t be easy. If she’s easy, she won’t be amazing. If she’s worth it, you won’t give up. If you give up, you’re not worthy. … The truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.”

    – Bob Marley



  164.  #164Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 6:16 am

    @Akasha I agree! totally not to allow anyone’s mood or situation – energy to change who we are… that’s a tough one as a very sensitive person and my astrological sign as well…… but is my journey to heal that…

    OXOXO



  165.  #165Zara on January 29, 2014 at 6:23 am

    “Te quiero” music and french text written by Stromae in 2010

    My translation
    ____________________________
    One day I saw her and I immediately knew
    That we were gonna have to play these absurd games
    Jewels, kisses and the whole shebang,
    Sweet words and low blow,
    Insults, punches, et cetera et cetera,
    No! Not mine, hers, yes!

    And next also our child will become hers;
    Well, it is the judge who will insist, I imagine.
    Imagine me with my TV under my arm
    And my dirty jeans and all that…

    I love her to death but for all my life.
    We will say “yes” to each other for life until death.
    And even changing our mind,
    Even knowing we are wrong,
    We will not change life.
    So, like everybody, I will suffer until death.

    Te quiero!

    I would like to be her shadow, but I hate her.

    Te quiero!

    Even at the end of the world, well, let her stay there!

    Te quiero!

    Yes, I loved her so much and I still love her.

    Te quiero!

    I won’t have the choice, until death.

    Te quiero!

    Until death.

    Te quiero!

    One day I will see “her” again.
    I will immediately know
    It’s on for another ride.
    One more kid, a new judge
    And then their smell of piss.
    It will just be once again repetitive.

    Imagine me in my old jeans
    But this time, homeless,
    The mood down to zero,
    On top of a bridge, a cliff or a building.
    I will look like a c**t when I jump into the void.

    I love her to death ( x11 )

    I love her to death but for life.
    We will say “yes” to each other for life until death.
    And even changing our mind,
    Even knowing we are wrong,
    We will not change life.
    So, like everybody, I will suffer until death.

    Te quiero!

    I would like to be her shadow, but I hate her.

    Te quiero!

    Even at the end of the world, well, let her stay there!

    Te quiero!

    Yes, I loved her so much and I still love her.

    Te quiero!

    I won’t have the choice, no, until death.

    The quiero!
    Te quiero!

    Until death.

    Te quiero!
    Te quiero!

    I love her to death ( x7)

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YLWQNw7lM

    xxx



  166.  #166Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 6:30 am

    I love that B Marley quote Lisa 🙂 and the Marilyn one – if you can’t handle the worst of me you don’t deserve the best of me – or some such thing…

    i feel better that I didn’t make myself short to help B with the money thing – maybe actually he does too – today he has said that seeing as we struggle communicating in words he’d like to communicate in actions and has found a film he’d like me to watch with him – okay i can be open to that xxx I feel the need for a down day anyway xxx



  167.  #167Cara on January 29, 2014 at 6:47 am

    Very good advice. I’ve always had issues communicating with significant others before – until now. This guy I’m seeing is so patient and understanding. It’s been almost one year with no arguments! It almost feels too good to be true 🙂



  168.  #168LoveAlways on January 29, 2014 at 6:48 am

    ((((((((((AKASHA)))))))) #161

    I have often been where you are. Hugs to you siren. I read your post, and I feel your focus could gently shift more to yourself. Maybe you could view each statement and see how you could turn that energy and focus onto yourself and getting your needs met. Kind of like “riffing.” Or you realize you only have control over yourself and then make a statement about what you can do or feel about the situation. Forgive me if I overstep any boundaries here, but I think this will help you see what I’m trying to suggest:

    “I am feeling bad again like, oh ok I didn’t respond to his calls and text because I want him to actually put some physical effort into reconciling and not just calling me up whenever he feels the urge.”

    How to you feel about this situation? What can you do about what it is you feel? (It’s good you did not call or respond, leaning back is good!! But you don’t want to do it to get a response or MAKE him do something)

    “I know I did good. I felt more powerful. I know I shouldn’t listen to the little voice inside me that keeps whispering “oh great you lost him now”. Because I want to break this cycle, I want more. I don’t want to just be willing to accept crumbs and have him string me along 🙁 I want to have more.”

    This is perfect!!!

    “I want a guy to work to keep his 2.5 year relationship and not just say ok you are right I didn’t care enough… I have to squash this little voice. I feel like an addict. So I have to lean way back even from my phone… Because I deserve more. I know it. But I feel like I ruined it. Sorry for ranting Sirens….”

    Is it really the 2.5 year relationship or is there something more you want? Seems this focuses on him . . . I’m asking what are your needs siren? What need is not being fulfilled in this situation that causes you step back? Is it showing affection, attention, commitment, STEPPING UP??? You see, rather than focus on what he is not doing, perhaps focus on what your needs are and then the baby steps on how you are going to get them met (remember the four rules though).

    I’ve been down this same road, so I hope this helps you avoid the long path of mistakes I made 🙂

    Much love to you siren

    LoveAlways



  169.  #169akasha on January 29, 2014 at 6:58 am

    LoveAlways I wish I could just hug you and smoosh you right now! YOu can never overstep any boundaries when all you want is to help me feel good 🙂 Thank you so much I will keep doing this and re-reading what you wrote so I can really truly “get” it.

    my needs are that I want to feel loved and cherished and committed to even when the going gets tough. I want to feel special.



  170.  #170Andrea on January 29, 2014 at 7:07 am

    I watched a Classic Turner Movie last night called, “Dear Heart”.
    A love story about a woman who is middle age, single, and very used to taking care of herself… and everyone else around her. She makes friends everywhere she goes and is helpful and cheerful and nice. She gives off an aura of “Everything is okay with the whole wide world.. just spit shine your shoes this way, and the best sandwich to order in this place is the roast beef one, and here is the only way to collar that tie, and here.. let me open that door for you.”
    She’s in New York for a Post Masters convention and all the married men flock to her. She finally breaks down and asks one of them, “Why is it that I’m completely ignored until a man is married to another woman, then for a day or two, I am everything he ever wanted. And he always goes back to his wife.”

    Finally a man comes along and is strong enough, or crazy enough, to tell her… “Now, ever since I met you, you’ve told me what to order, how to sit, who is who, what names to remember… And I’m telling you, you’ve just got to stop that. You’ve got to stop that. You’ve got to at least allow me the chance to open a door for you! If you can do it all for yourself, then why do you need me?”

    It was such an eye opening movie for me. It was made in 64 I believe, all in black and white. Glen Ford and Geraldine Page are the stars. But I had so many “aha” moments while watching that.

    She kept attracting married men because every once in a while these men wanted a small break from their roles of being the “bread winner”.. directors.. bosses… etc… They wanted someone to take care of them for a change. Or so they thought. But they always naturally went back to who they really were. Men. It wasn’t fun for them to always have someone doting on them and taking care of them and “making their lives better”.

    Anyway, something like that… towards the end of the movie you could see the heroine visibly relaxing, becoming more vulnerable, making mistakes, kind of tripping in cute little ways, not so able to communicate in the fluent and authoritative way she’d always done. You could see her showing her emotions more and even I just wanted to reach into the screen and pull her towards me and just love her. The “overly nice” character she played in the beginning was kind of overbearing and annoying.

    Anyway, it’s a very “Rori Raye” film I believe. So very poignant.



  171.  #171Andrea on January 29, 2014 at 7:21 am

    Akasha… I so know what you’re going through.

    When I was going through that with an ex, I started to just feel everything.

    “I feel so sad right now, I feel so bad, I feel like lint, I feel not worthy of effort. My gut hurts, my body is so sore. I’m sad.”

    I wouldn’t say that to him. I would just feel all of that. And I would cry. Then get even sadder because he was the one I used to go to when I needed to cry. So I’d just let myself sink deeper into that sadness and cry even harder.

    But, one of the reasons that I didn’t respond to him in the end there, when he’d send texts and messages and facebook prompts is this:

    Talking to him made me feel even worse because the more we talked the more I realized that… through NO fault of his own…. He just CAN’T give me what I want in a relationship right now. I always had to compromise my wants/needs in order to stay with him. And that compromise made ME FEEL like I WASN’T WORTH THE EFFORT TO ME!

    I finally realized that I felt like “not worth the effort” because I wasn’t making the effort to have a wonderful relationship with myself. He was only mirroring to me the way I was treating myself.

    So I went through a time when not talking to him made me sad, but talking to him made me sadder… so I chose the lesser of the two evils. Now, things are better. Now I’m feeling pretty good about myself and making efforts towards having this really kind of cool life…. and dating other men as they come along.
    The most important thing is that I don’t feel compromised anymore. I don’t feel sad anymore. I kind of feel victorious, and like I accomplished something, and I kind of feel like I’m stronger now, softer now, more ready for real love now…..



  172.  #172Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 7:23 am

    @Andrea

    I got hot and sweaty reading your post about the movie…

    I can find at least 4 men in my life that would have wanted a break from being Men…

    and “R” that drove down from NJ might have been one… but I didn’t fall for it, cuz I didn’t make the decisions…

    and “D” came down and said he wanted me to make all the plans… and I didn’t… cuz I’m working on being feminine…. and then he said “I wanted ( the last day) the whole day to be un-planned and no schedule… he never told me that .. but it was almost in a boyish way of needing to have something his way..

    I wonder if….. and since men tell me I’m kind… that there is something of this sort going on…though I do and say things sometimes that can be curt…and I don’t apologize.. or I make a remark in a matter of fact way, and I don’t apologize…

    Hummm my wheels are turning…

    what about when the man opens the car door for me, and I say thank you… I do that to show appreciation for him doing something that I love and feel good about… out of respect…

    I will ponder this some more…see if I can find it…

    OXOXO



  173.  #173Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 8:41 am

    that movie just keeps on bugging me… and bringing up stuff!!!

    Married men wanting a break from being men…hummm well… I’m ticked…

    I’ve done the work on “I’m to be used, abused and discarded” before and this whole movie things brings up that deep splinter…

    now i’m feeling all weird and shaky and wanting to be out of my body… I’m feeling hot and weird…. is that why men adore me and then walk away and tell me how amazing I am… just need a fix … I don’t make the decisions though… and I do receive… but there is something to this…..

    else I wouldn’t be having all these chemical reactions in my body…

    This is the part that is so hard for me.. b/c I can’t see outside of this… I can’t step outside of me to see me and what this means…

    something big is going on inside of me…

    I’m just a trophy… I’ve known that for a long while.. even “S” pretty much has said that… the only reason he liked taking me downtown and out on the town was b/c I was something he could show off…

    I’ve had men say that before… they want to show me off… is that all I am to men…

    OMG…something is happening… now… I feel soooo weird… and hot and bothered and dizzy…

    I’m to be used…and discarded… as a toy, a trophy… a break… and then let me go?

    just venting out on here… I don’t know yet… what this is…

    the emotions are coming up!!!! but there isn’t any words to describe what I’m feeling… almost like it is pre-verbal….

    I’m disposable… use me and then throw me away…

    Oh God I wish I had help on this one….

    it’s a biggy….

    OXOXOXO



  174.  #174Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 8:45 am

    I don’t understand!!! This is what I am to men…. sobbing, sobbing…. a pretty picture… a thing….. no emotional connection at all… no wonder I don’t feel worth the effort to these men… I”M NOT!!! worth the effort to them…

    OXOXOX



  175.  #175Cris on January 29, 2014 at 8:46 am

    (((Lisa)))) maybe if you stop using definitions for yourself everything would feel easier
    Maybe you can relax and see yourself from a holistic perspective
    xoxoxo



  176.  #176Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 8:56 am

    I really need to sign off right now… this is too big of an issue that needs to be looked at….. I do not wish to make it easier, I wish to inquire it and see what it has to say to me…. thanks so much <3 This is something really deep!!! that has most likely been pushed down for eons… now that it is up here, I wish to not push it down or make it better or turn it into positive… I wish to allow it's full life! Love it! it's been ignored way too long….Something inside of me has been longing for this day for a very very long time……

    much love !!!

    OXOXOX



  177.  #177Femininewoman on January 29, 2014 at 9:08 am

    I think it was Shannon who mentioned disposable before. It just seems to me like an odd way to think of oneself.



  178.  #178Femininewoman on January 29, 2014 at 9:14 am

    I got that Bob Marley quote from Bob Grant this morning also and thought it was very interesting.



  179.  #179Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 9:27 am

    The anger is here!!! Big Time!!! and what comes to my mind is what Rori said about treating women who had been violated…. and what really is inside them is anger!! Well it is here!!

    I’m so angry …. for being violated and used…. controlled and held down…and discarded…

    I’m so angry….. and finally it is here…

    been smashed down for most all of my life…

    breathe in the anger and allow it to be…

    love the anger….. hold me… let me get it out…

    OXOXO



  180.  #180Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 9:52 am

    akasha – 169 – Have you tried REALLY showing appreciation for the things he DOES do which feel good? Do you melt and tell him how wonderful it feels when he…………….or does……………….?

    If he’s the man for you, he will want to make you happy, yet when a woman focuses on the things which she doesn’t like or aren’t quite right, he might easily feel he can’t make her happy no matter what he does. He could give up.

    BUT when you he feels appreciated and loved for what he IS doing and giving, he will want to do and give more, maybe more of what you were looking for all along.

    xxoo



  181.  #181Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 10:34 am

    I found these which if this above is at all true might shed some light.

    http://sexandheart.com/changing-your-man/

    xxoo



  182.  #182Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 10:34 am


  183.  #183Andrea on January 29, 2014 at 10:35 am

    LIsa, I think I felt what you are feeling.
    After the movie, I cried and cried and cried. I couldn’t pin point or vocalize what a deep pit this movie opened up inside of me.

    I kept thinking.. “I’ve done it all wrong for so so long how can I turn it around now?”

    And I don’t have a Glen Ford to come and show me…. “Now Stop that Andrea! You’ve got to stop that!”

    It is something deep to me as well. I’ve been writhing with it all night and all morning this morning.



  184.  #184Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 10:56 am

    I wore my new red heels to work yesterday and then on a date afterwards. We were only supposed to have drinks but then we had dinner too. It was a great restaurant and the food was delicious. He’s a nice solid smart successful man. But there was no spark there for me and the conversation was awkward and boring. He just seemed so generic. Oh well, it was fun to dress up and wear my red shoes and go to a great restaurant!



  185.  #185Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 11:49 am

    So happy you had your red shoes to keep you entertained LL 🙂 – is he maybe a second-chancer? might be different next time around?…



  186.  #186Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    hahahaha, thanks Sophie, yeah they did keep me entertained…I LOVE them! I dunno, maybe re. the guy…

    I’ve got a golf date with someone on Friday. He’s a guy that I met a few weeks ago and was getting mixed messages from. but he seems to be stepping up and is making plans, calling me…little surprising since I wasn’t expecting that from him.

    Then there’s a few other men from online that seem interesting. Changing my photo really made a huge difference. Wish i had known that secret earlier!



  187.  #187Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Yes I was always playing around with my profile – different pictures and different words and seeing the different men I attracted – it felt fun and was an interesting experiment – lots of men would write to me again not realising that they’d written to me as a ‘previous profile’ 🙂 xx



  188.  #188Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    I’m using my body like a barometer. If I feel good around someone, my body feels happy. If I feel bad around someone, I feel it in my body – my mouth pulls down and my stomach/chest feels tight. I’m going with what my body tells me, it knows. Moving away from someone when my body doesn’t feel good, and towards someone when my body feels good. Trying this out. Using my body as a barometer. It feels right.



  189.  #189Turquoise on January 29, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Hmmmm….. I’m really interested in trying this. Mr. Conversation has told me many times that he doesn’t think most people “get” him. He says every once and awhile I do, but he can’t pinpoint what it is I say that makes him feel that way. I wonder if I’m simply reflecting back. I’m going to look for opportunities to try this…. with my kids too.

    Things have been really great with sweetheart. We spent most of the weekend together. I feel very comfortable with him, but not sure I’m satisfied. Trying to give this a chance and just continue feeling good in his presence.



  190.  #190Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    I feel really upset and really anxious – new person moved in this evening and this evening B decides that he wants to smoke weed in his room and the whole house stinks of it and I feel so upset and embarrassed – I did tell B that it stank and to open all the windows and that I didn’t want him to smoke it in the house at all – he told me ‘I was really starting to nag’ and I told him that I wanted him to respect my house and the rules in my house – – I hope he will smoke in the garden but I can’t stop the fact it’s happened and I feel agitated – I want to run away – it is just one thing after another (is that me being drama?)



  191.  #191Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 1:54 pm

    I’m crying now – it feels really distressing not being able to have control of my own home environment especially with regards to needing it for my income



  192.  #192Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    worrying bout the new person – doing his thinking for him -maybe he won’t care? I CARE



  193.  #193LoveAlways on January 29, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    ((((((((((Sophie))))))))))))))



  194.  #194LoveAlways on January 29, 2014 at 2:05 pm

    Akasha

    Thanks for the hug and smoosh!!! 🙂

    I feel all smiley!!!



  195.  #195cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    Sophie –

    I know this is not an evolved response, but I kind want to put a pie in B’s face.



  196.  #196Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    thanks Love Always – I just had to get my feeling upset out some way … xxx



  197.  #197Kyla on January 29, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    (((Sophie))) I feel enraged on your behalf!



  198.  #198Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Me too!

    ((((((((((Sophie))))))))))



  199.  #199Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Cupcake – evolved or not – what a beautiful image 20+ sirens queuing round the block all divine and lovely and leaning back with the most delectable home baked pies to squish in his face 🙂 – thank you lovelies for your support and for making me laugh xxx



  200.  #200Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    lovelies = kyla and LL for your support too



  201.  #201Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    …and everyone for being here…xxx



  202.  #202Sophie on January 29, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    i guess i could have done the reflecting back…”I hear that you feel nagged?” and then feeling messages…i did do feeling messages but i did my usual of forgetting to ask what he thinks..i just jumped in with what i wanted him to do…he has opened all the windows so i think its better but if im going to use this situation as serious practise for learning to be in my feminine which is powerful maybe i could have let him come up with his own suggestions…and guided it from there…hmmm pondering xxx



  203.  #203Kyla on January 29, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Sophie personally I wouldn’t be tip toeing around his feelings, its your feelings that matter and I think there has to be a huge amount of anger in there.. well there was for me when R was hanging around my house, unemployed, smoking weed, not helping and acting like a fully grown toddler.. I was filled with rage and when I took my power back and just told him how I really felt about him being in my home, he got the message and immediately went to stay with a friend. He figured out a solution straight away whereas before apparently he had no where else to go and I just had to wait. Then there was peace and space for me to breathe again. I feel guilty that I’m triggered about R every time you mention B so I feel hesitant to say anything so please ignore my projection.

    (((Sophie)))



  204.  #204Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Has anyone tried Its Just Lunch?

    If so, please let me know how it went! Thanks!



  205.  #205Mandy on January 29, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    God I feel weak.

    I just went onto his computer because he asked me to and saw all these downloaded pictures of a nude Natalie Portman.

    He never looks at my pictures I’ve had taken…it’s like he could care less.

    That and he’s been talking about seeing his ex and I’m uncomfy with the closeness recently.

    It’s like every time I end up making myself feel better, something else comes up that’s worse.

    I so do not feel goddess like today…he even told me to stop giving him so many kisses and it brought me to tears.

    I just want to go back to bed and cry myself to sleep…I’ve been working so hard at this and sometimes I feel like it’s to no avail…



  206.  #206cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    Sophie-

    It would be a store bought pie. Key lime, I think. Something really gooey.

    I’d press it into his face like in the Three Stoogies, complete with “Yuck-yuck-yuck!” noise the Stooges do, and then push him out the door and all the other Sirens would arrive and we’d drink sangria and dance around while we back up his stuff and leave it at the curb.

    Oh, and that is when the homemade pies come out. Those are for us! At your party!



  207.  #207cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    Liquid Light-

    I always hear about Just Lunch, but I have never heard of anyone I know doing it.

    What is your hesitation? It sounds like you feel curious about it. And there is no way to predict what guy right now is asking his friends if he should sign up for it !

    You have been on such a roll.

    Is it super expensive?



  208.  #208cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    205

    ((((Mandy))))



  209.  #209cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    Mandy, Are you smiling and flirting with other men?

    Can you at least drag yourself to the movies instead of going in your room to cry?

    Get out of the house, force yourself. Say, Going to the movies! Breezily as you fly out the door. Make him wonder.

    I promise you that getting out of the house will feel better than lying in a dark room wishing things were different.

    Anyone want to back me up on this assertion?



  210.  #210Dominique on January 29, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Sophie – 202 – This is your house, so these are your boundaries.

    Another way you can go with this is to agree with him.

    For example – Yes I am nagging you. This feels really important to me. I don’t want smoke of any kind in the house. What can we do here? How can we fix this?

    xxoo



  211.  #211Amber on January 29, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    Cupcake- 145
    I love this imagery! (Dibs on Garfield)
    I was just thinking that the three main men I’m CDing are the perfect combination. (F) is a friend. Great conversation, 30 years my senior, he loves teaching me about the finer things in life, like gourmet food and great wine. And he ALWAYS pays. (K) is a bit boring in the conversation department, but he plans the MOST FUN activities, ie. square-dancing on Saturday and NBA game two weeks ago. (T) is great conversation and EXCELLENT silences. He’s a homebody and my number one pick if I want to stay in and veg. He’s the only man I’m sleeping with right now and our chemistry is amazing. He would rather cook for me and rub than go out and DO something. I have noticed that I am a sightly different Siren with each of these men. Your imagery makes me wonder if there is ONE man who could handle ALL of me. What an exciting concept to explore!
    Cheers!



  212.  #212Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    Cupcake 207 yes, its expensive



  213.  #213Azure Blu on January 29, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Liquid Light 204
    Hello, I have been reading your wonderful comments for over a year and have gotten sooo much support and learning from all you amazingly human sirens!! Thank you! All of this has changed my life in ways I could NEVER have imagined. And of course thanks to Rori’s teachings and CD’s!!

    I will tell my story later but I know that Liquid Light has been asking about It’s Just Lunch. I tried it for a year and did have at least 2 dates a month they were all the uptight, engineer type which is not my type. I like fun, energetic and more sexy than any of them were. I never wanted more than 2 dates with any of them. I was VERY dissapointed in the service!!But it could be different in your area. I live in Michigan.

    I am 62 and have been using OurTime.com online dating site, Cding off and on for over a year and have met MANY lovely men!! I am now in an exclusive relationship and things are going well thanks to you lovely sirens, this blog and Rori!!



  214.  #214Lisa on January 29, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    @Mandy #205 I hear you loud and clear! I think I’d feel the same way! and I too feel like I work so hard at this to no avail……. <3 {[[hugs}}}

    I'm still angry, getting ready to do TheWork with someone… I've been waiting all day… I had good time with my girls today! and that felt so good..

    I'm happy for my anger! It has been so good to me today to bring up so much confidence and power within me… and it is helping push out what doesn't serve me well anymore..

    It also has given me clarity!!!

    How dare I even think of settling for less and any of these men so far in my life have been less… I deserve so much more!!!! And today I had the Epiphany of "I want a man in your life" is that true…? and I noticed I didn't…and that felt so good!!! I can't begin to explain… Everytime a man comes in to the picture my life seems to get more complicated and I get behind and I lose sleep and I have less focus and then I have to work on things with him… and so I noticed that I felt tired even thinking about it….. seriously I felt really tired just thinking about it.. even when "D" was calling me every night and it was nice.. but, I wasn't sleeping well… and that threw me off on all sorts of things in my life…

    I'm feeling good knowing that I've been searching frantically for something I don't need or even want right now… I'm good without a man in my life…

    peace settled into my body and I'm breathing deeper….. it's so good to know the truth…

    and from what I read from experts men need women far more than women need men.. and though I wonder how many women know that… funny isn't it… I didn't realize it.. we are so caught up in the "lack of men" and the supposed scarcity of men… that some of us ( me included) hadn't even checked in with ourselves to see if we really NEED a man… to be happy… the utter fact that we subconsciously think we need a man makes us chase.. the fact that we subconsciously feel there is scarcity of men creates urgency! makes us chase… or lean forward… Marketing people make full use of this concept, create a need and then give a subconscious scarcity of it.. and bingo value increase… .

    I'm feeling very free now… and the less I want a man the more he'll have to work to get me to make room for him… and he'll have to be amazing!

    Just sayin…. my processing today….

    OXOXOX



  215.  #215Mandy on January 29, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    Thanks Cupcake, it had crossed my mind. it would have to just be a walk I think, to the coffee shop, get some air and exercise. But seriously, what a brilliant idea. I feel great about it.

    I also learned that if I sit with my man and write down what I feel and what I want to say I can do it without getting anxious and clamming up and forgetting my Love Scripts. That’s a huge thing there I feel.

    I am just going to proclaim right here that I am SO good at kicking myself…and punishing myself. I can be my own worst critic.

    It’s definitely the next step…getting out of that. I sometimes just feel defeated when things keep popping up. Here’s the deal, I really need the Toxic Men program, but I’m waiting out the Love Scripts payments before I start the Toxic Men payments, so I’m trying to be patient, but definitely, definitely Toxic Men…definitely. I am attracted to guys who “slap me down”…and yes I do practically hire them to do it. It’s the same relationship I have with my military father. He’s the best father in the world but he sure has toxic tendencies, and so does J. He’s the best man I’ve ever had – Thanks to personal transformations made as a result of putting Modern Siren tools to work…thank goodness for that…

    Thanks for letting me let my squeaky voice speak…I really needed it…I really did. I feel better.



  216.  #216Mandy on January 29, 2014 at 6:51 pm

    Thanks Cupcake, it had crossed my mind. it would have to just be a walk I think, to the coffee shop, get some air and exercise. But seriously, what a brilliant idea. I feel great about it.

    I also learned that if I sit with my man and write down what I feel and what I want to say, I can do it without getting anxious and clamming up and forgetting my Love Scripts. That’s a huge thing there I feel.

    I am just going to proclaim right here that I am SO good at kicking myself…and punishing myself. I can be my own worst critic.

    It’s definitely the next step…getting out of that. I sometimes just feel defeated when things keep popping up. Here’s the deal, I really need the Toxic Men program, but I’m waiting out the Love Scripts payments before I start the Toxic Men payments, so I’m trying to be patient, but definitely, definitely Toxic Men…definitely. I am attracted to guys who “slap me down”…and yes I do practically hire them to do it. It’s the same relationship I have with my military father. He’s the best father in the world but he sure has toxic tendencies, and so does J. He’s the best man I’ve ever had – Thanks to personal transformations made as a result of putting Modern Siren tools to work…thank goodness for that…

    Thanks for letting me let my squeaky voice speak…I really needed it…I really did. I feel much better.



  217.  #217Mandy on January 29, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    Lisa thank you too,

    Wow you really do understand what I’m going through. I have anxiety problems and sometimes when I try to slow down and feel then speak, it’s like test anxiety…I forget then I clam up. I feel like maybe I might be on the low end of the learning curve because when anxiety starts it just shoots right through me through lightening and I just freeze and forget and stop functioning altogether. I might need to get some cognitive behavioral therapy again. I have had it before and it was successful.

    It’s good I figured out a way to speak my love scripts though. When I come onto the computer to write down my riffing, he feels ignored and lonely. Just like I feel when he looks at pictures of other women. So we connected there. I feel like aw…maybe he does still like me…lol…

    Thanks again ladies…much appreciated…



  218.  #218Kyla on January 29, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    My gran is on the mend, she is the bionic cat woman with 9 lives, I feel so happy for my mom and amazed at the turn around!!

    Bear is calling instead of texting and actually I’m feeling good and easy on the phone with him, there is kinship/friendship there, I’m even feeling excited about our date Saturday and that’s intriguing.

    Ex-colleague (going to call him Archer now) is taking me out Friday.. I’m feeling just peachy flirting with him, it feels soft and juicy.

    I was preparing with my boss for this big meeting we have tomorrow and he told me not to worry because he’s got my back and I sank into that moment and felt really supported. I noticed lately I’m feeling more supported in all areas of my life, with family, my kids and complete strangers. Especially work though, I used to feel harassed and belittled by the seniors in my office and that has shifted in the last 3 months to being helped, supported, mentored, cheered on and taken out for daily lunch! Amazing.

    DrWho called tonight before leaving for his trip, I felt warmth around my heart and smiley.. and so happy that I was able to swim with the hormonal feelings last night and flow into a better feeling place..

    Sleepy now, night xx



  219.  #219Liquid Light on January 29, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    Woohooo, Kyla!!! 🙂



  220.  #220Amber on January 29, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Sophie-
    I agree with Kyla in 203. I don’t think requiring respect for your space is un-feminine. In fact, I think the opposite. If respect for your space and how you feel IN that space is not a priority for him, I don’t think you should blame YOURSELF. If you want to use feeling messages, why not make them genuine?

    “I feel OUTRAGED that my house stinks of pot!”
    “I feel unimportant and ignored.”
    “I want our house to be a safe place for EVERYONE who lives here and I’m uncomfortable with pot being smoked inside.”

    Who decided feeling messages have to be all sunshine and light? Say what you REALLY feel, Siren! Be authentic.

    And feel free to tell me to kiss off if you feel I’m out of line 🙂

    Cheers!

    PS, let’s not waste good pie. maybe we could bash him with pillows?



  221.  #221cupcake on January 29, 2014 at 8:54 pm

    217 Kyla-

    Thank you for posting your update. I was wondering how you are feeling and I feel relieved to hear it’s all coming together better than you seemed to expect.

    Whew. 🙂



  222.  #222Indigo on January 29, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I haven’t been on the blog much – mostly I haven’t had time.

    B has been booking up a lot of my time – he’s very adoring. He calls me every night, and Skypes me during the day – he sends me songs and cute messages with kisses on the end, and tells me how beautiful I am. I think to myself, so this is what it feels like to be adored. And so I know I’m doing something right.

    He’s great. He’s masculine and interesting too. And I like being with him – there’s no way I could do all of this if I didn’t.

    But there’s no way I can give my heart to him – that’s something I can only admit to here. He’s doing literally EVERYTHING right, everything a man is supposed to do. And I’m being a full-on siren, I’m doing everything I’m supposed to do.

    And yet in my heart, I’m just waiting. Waiting, like a princess in a tower. Waiting for D to come back. Unable, and unwilling, to let go of that part of my heart that I committed to him a long time ago.

    I know it sounds crazy, and I can’t explain it. I haven’t contacted him, or seen him. And I am doing my BEST. And yet I feel like he’s always with me, like I’m just biding my time. And you guys are the only ones I can tell this to.



  223.  #223Amber on January 29, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    (((Indigo)))

    What you’re doing is working. Who decided that (B) needs the piece of your heart reserved for (D)?
    Why can’t (B) have his own piece, maybe a bigger one?
    And maybe check to make sure the BIGGEST piece of your heart belongs to YOU!

    Just my two cents…

    Cheers!



  224.  #224Millie on January 29, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    I feel free.
    I feel free of expectations.
    I feel open to being surprised. I am surprised.
    I feel that I’m able to allow pleasure into my life and not “get attached” to it, to let it run like a river through me.
    I feel relaxed with my open desire.
    I feel like I’m on the other side of a fence in an open field, leaving the gated world behind me.
    It feels liberating to sleep with someone, to enjoy them, and at the same to know, he is one of many.
    I’m not waiting for a man to choose me anymore.
    I’m opening myself up to have options to choose.
    I choose.
    It feels liberating to choose a man for tonight…and to perhaps choose another tomorrow.
    I feel I’ve entered a new arena where I don’t get hung up on the little things.
    This feels good. I want to continue this.



  225.  #225Millie on January 29, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    @Indigo 222–

    I feel inspired by you!
    but I’m wondering….out loud..if at some point love become a choice? We choose who we love? The pull of D still on your heart..is an authentic feeling, but at some point do we choose to “settle” (and I use that word as devil’s advocate) for a man who CAN give us the relationship in spite of the butterflies we still feel for someone else. I’m wondering if…those feelings are absent with this man because he is present? Can those feelings of yearning and longing exist only when a man is absent? I don’t know all the details, but what if what we identify as “love” is really yearning for what is not in front of us? What if love is a choice? I choose to give my heart to man that has earned it. I recognize that those feelings for another man only exist because he is not in front of me, because I can’t have him. I’m speculating…I may be off base here.



  226.  #226akasha on January 29, 2014 at 11:54 pm

    Andrea — you are right! He was mirroring what I felt about myself. Everytime we break up and I find myself again he is always drawn back to me, and then I feel myself fading away in the relationship always overfunctioning and trying to make him feel better when in fact I should be making ME feel better! What a relief to finally say that.. thank you for helping me see this.

    Dominique — you are also right. I hardly showed my appreciationg, I mean I smothered him in love and kisses and hugs but I never verbalized how much I appreciate him. I think he probably thinks he can never make me happy because all I did was complain about the “lack” of things in our relationship. So now, what do I do? Do I answer the next time he tries to make contact? and then take it from there? Or do I contact him myself ? Or do I just ignore him forever until he is physically in front of me? Oh and also, I cannot open your links 🙁 I don’t know if it’s the country I am in that blocks them? How else can I view them ?



  227.  #227Sophie on January 30, 2014 at 12:54 am

    Kyla and Amber _ I appreciate your input massively so no need to feel reticent xxx I have told him exactly what I feel about it and how it makes me feel I guess the masculine feeling energy is just because nothing feels flowy it’s one thing after another i’m having to ‘take on’ or ‘manage’ and I say things and he does what he pleases anyway and then it escalates x I went to sleep last night cos I felt so anxious but I will tell him later how I feel again and be very clear that I don’t want it smoked in the house at all x Kyla – you’re right I feel fuming angry a lot of the time – …I’m glad your Gran is doing good and you’ve got some good feeling things happening 🙂

    Yes Dominique – thank you I will try that – I do put my boundaries in- it may sound sometimes like i’m meek but I’m not he just doesnt listen to me and then i’m left a bit floundering and thats when I’m looking for different approaches to make it easier on myself…

    Yay Cupcake – the party feels fun and light and airy – just what I need 🙂 xxx

    (((Indigo))) – I like what Amber says xxx I guess we can’t force our feelings to change…everything happens in its own time perhaps xxx



  228.  #228Zia on January 30, 2014 at 2:23 am

    hi sirens!

    so i’d love some input if any of you have some 🙂 this guy who i hung out with a fair bit last weekend (first time together as anything more than friends) brought up a couple of times what my plans were for valentines day.

    i already had plans with a girlfriend and i’ll admit i didn’t really convey that well, kinda just said i had plans with some friends. i actually wanted to check with my friend to see if she wouldnt mind if this guy did ask me out, that i went out with him

    she said of course. now i was thinking i’d just wait and see if he brings it up again, but if not what would be a feminine non-leaning-forward way to say that i am now free valentines day just to give him the all clear in case he did want to take me out? i don’t want to ask him out or anything like that, just find a way to slip it into conversation that i’m now available.

    i have a few ideas kicking around on how to express this but interested to hear your response 🙂



  229.  #229Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 4:58 am

    You know, Mandy, I am also feeling like I’m at the bottom of the learning curve. I also freeze up, but I’ve just started focusing on admitting that, “I feel so scared right now that I forgot what I was going to say.”

    Fear is a valid emotion, you know. It’s okay to admit, “I feel so afraid and shut down right now.”

    Then he’ll want to know what you’re so afraid of, and it’s okay to just bawl and even admit, “I don’t know!” on a wail, lol. Because sometimes, we don’t know–or we know, and just don’t know how to articulate it.



  230.  #230Andrea on January 30, 2014 at 4:59 am

    Ooohhh Zia, that is one of my triggers big time. I feel so resentful. My ex used to do that all the time. He’d ask me: What are your plans for Friday.
    If I said I have tentative plans with someone else he would back off and I wouldn’t get to see him for the weekend.
    If I said, I have no plans, he would then take his time and treat me as though I was his second or third option, like… “Well, she’s sitting around at home waiting for me, I don’t have to do anything.”
    Ooohhh it really hurt. Big fights for us all the time. It made me feel like I was on unsolid ground.

    I’m anxious to hear what the sirens come up with for that one, cause it scares the heck out of me.

    One thing I was thinking I wish I had done back when he would ask that:
    He: What are your plans for Friday?
    Me: What are YOU offering???

    I was so hard on him all the time because I would say, “Sheesh, please BE A MAN!! If you want to ask me out, then ask me out for a certain night. I’ll let you know if I already have plans or not!”
    In one of our fights, I was so frustrated with him I told him that if I had wanted to date a woman I’d be a lesbian.

    : ( Ouch!! Well, I guess I’m telling you what NOT to do. Good luck.

    (You know, between all of us, we could probably write a best seller called, “HOW TO LOSE YOUR MAN!”)



  231.  #231Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 5:00 am

    Zia, maybe when he asks how are you, “Oh, I’m feeling a little disappointed right now.”

    “Why?”

    “My friend that I had plans with for Valentines’ day found something else to do. Strangely, I feel so happy for her, but also a little disappointed. What do you think?”

    Viola, opportunity for him to fix your feelings, and coincidentally ask for V-day with you. 😀



  232.  #232akasha on January 30, 2014 at 5:07 am

    I feel so frustrated that most of you Sirens are in another time zone so when I am here y’all are sleeping and vice versa.

    Sigh.

    Need to know what to do if he calls again keep up the silent treatment or actually answer and talk 🙂

    btw, I want to thank everyone that posts on here, I feel as if my energy and vibe has risen so much thanks to all of you 🙂 I feel special and loved.

    hugs to everyone that reads this!



  233.  #233Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 5:15 am

    Akasha, no silent treatment. No games. If he calls, you answer, and you’re direct and straight-forward with your feelings;

    “Hi. I feel glad that you called, but I feel confused, because I also feel very angry and rejected/ sad/ disappointed.”

    The silent treatment is a game. It’s a way we withdraw ourselves, our love and our affection, from the other person. It’s punishment! You’re not his parent, don’t punish him.

    Answer the phone. It takes courage to call. Then be with him in a real, authentically “you” way… by telling him how you feel, even if it’s, “I felt afraid to answer the phone. I didn’t want to be yelled at.” Don’t say, “I didn’t want YOU to yell at me,” just that you didn’t want to be yelled at-period.

    Remember, you want to lean back, but you want to do it with warmth and welcome… even if warmth and welcome means saying you feel happy to hear from him–but ultimately still feel angry, at the same time.

    You can’t use leaning back as punishment. Leaning back isn’t about putting him in his place, it’s about learning to live in your own space without forcing your way into his.

    It sounds like you’re trying to use leaning back in an aggressive way, and that’s just never going to work. It’s not leaning back, because you’re still in his business–how to control and manipulate him… that’s his space, his head, his behavior…

    So don’t silent treatment him. Just answer the phone and say the good… then follow it up with the stronger feelings. That’s the combination of being leaned back but welcoming. “Thank you for coming into my space. I want to welcome you here. But right now, my bad feelings are really strong, so you might find it a little uncomfortable in here.” That’s fair. But “GET OUT AND DON’T COME BACK UNTIL I WANT YOU HERE!” is what the silent treatment says… very different, you know?



  234.  #234akasha on January 30, 2014 at 5:29 am

    Shannon, we are broken up now 🙁 So I was doing no contact since the relationship ended because he just wasn’t putting any effort into it and I didn’t feel valued and loved. So I had told him I didn’t want to talk anymore because I wanted to move on since he didn’t want to step up. And after that he called again.. So I was trying to use no contact as a way of establishing my boundaries and trying to protect myself from the on again off again relationship we keep having. Thank you for your advice, next time he calls I will follow through and just say it is nice to hear your voice but I feel confused when you call me?

    Thank you!!



  235.  #235Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Well, it depends on what you want. Do you want him back? If you want him back, accept the call.

    If you don’t want him back, then accept the call and be much more blunt and direct, “I feel angry. I asked that you not call me. Please don’t do it again.”

    If you are still interested in him, then I’d say almost the same thing, but with a difference…

    “I feel angry. I asked you not to call me. I told you that I want to be in a committed relationship (married/ live together/ whatever). You have made it clear that isn’t what you want. I feel unwanted and that feels bad. I don’t want to feel bad.”

    Be very direct and authentic. You asked him not to call, because you said what you wanted and he said ‘no’. Now he can either backpedal on what he wanted, or he can agree to stop calling. YOU stick to your boundary in that way–you calling me makes me feel bad, since I feel unwanted when someone who rejected me calls me. That’s your boundary, if you want to get him back.

    Otherwise, you just block his number, period.



  236.  #236T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Akasha and Shannon,
    Great words….I am in a situation almost the same as Akasha. I started talking with this guy in 2012. He was going thru a divorce when we met and it was final in October of 2012. We was talking for a while. I was told he was seen with his ex in March and after I called her to find out the truth he got mad and didnt talk to me for about 2-3 months. I would see him out but he wouldnt say anything to me. I texted and tried talking to him but he refused to say anything to me. So he finally called and told me how much he missed me and I took him back and we started back. After the ex moved back home which is to another state we started doing very well. But all of a sudden she called and asked him who was he dealing with and she told him me and wouldnt you know it started back again. So a few days before xmas he told me he couldnt talk to me again, he wanted to be with her, but told me like a week prior that he wanted to marry me and have kids together. Im so confused at this point. He hasnt called me in almost a month. Im 34, he’s 29 and the ex wife is 45 or 46. Just to grown to be playing kiddie games!!!! what should I do?



  237.  #237Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 6:06 am

    T, get out there and date your pants off. Hardcore.

    Date so much that he hears about it through the grapevine… or you find someone better!

    Date as if your future depended on it. :p

    If you’re going to draw him back, realistically or energetically… then you’re going to have to let go of his energy. You’re hanging onto your dreams of a life with him, and in so doing, he’s having his cake and eating it, too… he has you and her both at the same time; whether you want to admit it or not.

    So date. Like crazy. Date men you like and men you don’t. Smile at every man you see that looks the least bit appealing. Smile at him in a flirty way, though, not just a, “Why hi, there. I’m sweet and nice so I smile at people!” way…. but in a “Wow, look at YOU, you’re NICE to look at!” way.

    If it feels odd or uncomfortable to do that, then just remember this… you’re practicing your art for the man you really do want. Maybe along the way you’ll find someone else, maybe not… but if you ever get another chance with him, you do want to be WELL practiced in the art of showing a man JUST with a smile that he’s HOT, right? Being able to speak volumes without words, right?

    So that’s my advice for you. Date like crazy–and if you already are, lose some of your CDs and replace them. Make space for new and keep the doors revolving until you get what you want–from this guy or another.

    But most importantly of all, sit down and write down what you want to FEEL in your relationship. What was it about this fellow that FELT so good… write those down as if they are happening now… “I feel so loved, I feel so connected, I feel so close. I feel adored, I feel treasured, I feel aroused.”

    That’s your relationship affirmation… so forget any “I have the man of my dreams” type affirmations and start using these “feeling” affirmations. Affirm the relationship you DO want by focusing on the feelings you DO want.

    Men are the “I am” affirmation people… we’re the “I FEEL” affirmation people. That’s what’s wrong with having been taught men’s spiritual philosophies for so long… we’re trying to think our spirituality, and our spiritual connections to other people (and to money, etc.) when OUR language is FEELING.

    So look at men you find interesting as if they were the tastiest, juiciest slice of watermelon on a hot day… yum. I want me a bite of THAT! And don’t do anything else except lean back… warmly and with welcome.

    Then if your guy’s meant for you (and unlike Rori, I do believe somewhat in preset possibilities)… he’ll be back one day and it’ll all seem so natural. Otherwise, you’ll find someone better, and that, too, will all feel so natural (notice I said FEEL natural :p).



  238.  #238T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 6:35 am

    Shannon,
    I love it!!!!!!!! I guess my thing is im not afraid to date but kinda scared. I love this guy so much and I want him back in my life but I refuse to run behind him. I sit around and hope that he calls or text but he havent done neither. I think she manipulates him so its like im nobody. What bothers me is he stop talking to me “cold turkey” because of her. I kept trying to get him to understand she divorced him and he still allows her to rule his life. And as far as seeing him I dont even hang out anymore because Im not ready to see him right now!



  239.  #239Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 6:48 am

    T, just do it. Go out and go to the gym. Smile at the good-looking men. Go to the library… smile. Take golfing lessons (as discussed on another thread here). Take up sky diving or skiing or anything that takes you outside of where you are right now.

    Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if she manipulates him or not. You can’t ever convince him of anything… he isn’t going to “understand” anything, no matter what you say. It’s his mind, and it’s made up. He owns and controls it… if he LETS HER manipulate him, then so be it–it’s still his choice.

    Here’s the thing. He’s busy with her. He has a life. He’s got things to do.

    You’re not busy. You have no life. You’re waiting around for him… you’re focused on him. You’re already his. You belong to him, he owns you.

    Rori has said that if you’re thinking about a guy, he has his Mark on you. It’s like an energetic urine marking that other men can “smell”. You’re marked as someone’s property–someone who isn’t even there!

    The old cliche, “The best way to get over someone is to get under someone else”. Now, I don’t think you need to necessarily get under someone else… but it does seem like you certainly need to get around someone else, at least–preferably a lot of someone elses.

    If you can’t go out where you live, go to a nearby city. Just don’t sit at home thinking about him. It would be better to imagine a relationship with a celebrity that is the perfect relationship, than it is to sit at home thinking about him and reaching for him and scrabbling after him emotionally or by calling/ texting. Those things just aren’t going to work at all.



  240.  #240T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 6:57 am

    Shannon,
    WHOA!!!! you just tell it like it is and I like that!!! If I can meet someone else that I can like that would be great! And like you stated to get over someone is to get under somebody else, thats what I thought he ws doing! AHA was I wrong. All I want is closure and for him to at least call and apologize for what he did. Im really in love with him, but he’s letting this older woman just take over his life!!!! I wanna know how can you say you love me, ask me daily to marry him, have kids but stop talking to me all of a sudden! She’s in California and he”s in Georgia. Thats crazy buy hey!



  241.  #241Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 7:13 am

    None of that matters, T. None of it matters AT ALL. You have closure, you just don’t want to accept it. He cut off all contact with you. He went back to her. You can’t get any more closed than that.

    Closure won’t help or satisfy you, anyway. He’s gone. It’s done. Closure isn’t going to help anyone in any way. What is “closure” anyhow? It’s finished. He has killed the hope of a relationship, as thoroughly as he can manage to do so. He slammed the door in your face and you’re beating on it, saying, “I want closure!” The door that just got slammed in your face doesn’t say enough? The “hope” that you have is all in your own imagination. He can’t kill that hope with “closure” because that hope doesn’t have anything at all to do with him.

    He could say and do all of that because at the time he meant it. That was then. This is now. Now he means the slammed door.

    He’s not going to apologize. Do you really want him to, anyway? For sure? For real? So he calls and apologizes, now you have hope, AND you can’t even be mad at him anymore to help yourself move on from him. Are you certain you want him to steal the powerful energy of your anger; energy you could use to propel yourself into spiting him by having a far better life than he was able to offer?

    And so what if he did apologize? It doesn’t change anything, it just steals your thunder. Not to mention, he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. He just “followed his heart”.

    Ultimately, I don’t want to be one of the women that tells you things that aren’t true. You’re never going to get closure. Closure wouldn’t help. He’s not going to apologize. Even if you two get back together, the chances are extremely high that he’ll never apologize. Men don’t like to be wrong or feel wrong, and they hate to acknowledge being or feeling wrong.

    If that time comes that you get back together, you’ll have to choose between your justified anger… or feeling loved and wanted.

    That’s going to take practice on men you’re not invested in… and that’s what circular dating is for. It’s easier to practice letting go of a dropped invitation or an annoying habit, than it is to let go of something huge like this which feels like a massive betrayal.

    We women tend to tell each other, “Yeah, you have a right to be angry, I’d be pissed!” But maybe the truth IS that you have a right to be angry… but maybe being angry isn’t the right thing to HOLD ONTO.

    My biggest mistake in my relationship with J was that I felt that my anger was justified and I held onto it. It was more important to me than feeling loved. I’d push him away because I deserved and didn’t get an apology. I would push him away because even if what he did felt nice, he hadn’t given me what I felt was my due… he hadn’t said he was sorry or even seen the error of his ways.

    But you know what? That’s a man thing. It’s a MAN THING, so if we want to feel loved by men, we need to go into their world where it’s okay to let go of our anger. Men have it out. They beat each other up, verbally or physically… and then it’s done.

    That’s what Rori teaches. We say our piece. “I feel angry”. We have it out right then and there, in the moment… woman-to-man style… and then we’re DONE.

    So this is your first practice. Feel your anger. Simmer in it. Drop to your knees and bawl or scream it out. Then let it die. Don’t nurse it and carry it and nurture it and feed it. Let it wither away.



  242.  #242T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Shannon,
    Awesome words of encouragement!!!! So did you and J rekindle or did you just let it go? And I guess I amd having a hard time accepting that he wants her and not me!! I fell in love and cant help how I feel. It takes time to get over someone and im not there yet. This just happened in December.



  243.  #243Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 7:39 am

    It totally takes time! And that’s part of what circular dating is for, too, by the way. It shortens that time… why hurt longer than necessary?

    No, we haven’t rekindled, that I can tell. There is progress, but he’s clinging to his fear. All of my efforts are met with a brick wall of, “I don’t want to feel my love for you, so I am sabotaging my own feelings”. He’s fighting everything I do, tooth, claw, and nail.

    He’s slowly coming around, but I’m just not sure that I’m in the same place with him anymore. Do I really want to be with someone who’s going to fight his love for me so hard? Am I really sure I want to be with someone who can leave me?

    I mean, personally, the fact that he could abandon me to begin with (and that IS how I feel), strikes me as a fundamental flaw. Do I love him? I’m not even sure of that anymore at this point.

    Sometimes I’m slacking off on even trying to be warm when he comes to me, because I just don’t feel that interested. He ignores me, has for a long time, and now is doing it intentionally…

    I’m starting to feel my withdrawal from him on a very real level. I’ve been dating, and this time I’ve actually had a guy walk up and ask me out… and I like him. He wants to spend time with me. He likes me… that’s more than I can say for J since 7 years now.

    I did get invited along on something that he’s taking our daughter to on Saturday. That’s a step the other direction from his usual. And I think that a lot of what he’s doing is testing to see if I love him unconditionally…

    And you know what? I’m not sure that I do anymore. Most of the men that have contacted me online have been highly unappealing… but I’m finding that those that approach me in real life seem to be at least people I’d consider as dates. :p

    Anyway, my point is that it feels different now, and a big part of that is dating. Even dating men that I’m not “yee-haw!” over is helping, because some of these men are treating me REALLY GREAT… better than he ever treated me!

    I loved him, and maybe I still do. But I’m realizing that maybe… maybe I settled.

    Maybe you did, too. But maybe it’s too soon to tell, because the emotions are all still too raw and deep and painful… but they’ll stay that way as long as you stay in them and don’t put yourself out there and start learning what other kinds of men exist.

    You may find one that treats you better than your guy did. You might just realize that this guy’s fundamental flaw is that he could leave you for another woman–any other woman.

    But that’s not going to happen while you’re still in an imaginary relationship with him right now, every day. You have to put yourself out there with other men. And as Rori says… be willing to be surprised.

    You can’t imagine a day where you’ll question whether you love him or not, and a few weeks ago, neither could I.

    It happened fast, though. Really fast. I’m still mourning and I go back and forth… but there are times where I question whether I want to be with him at all… and that’s better than just a few weeks ago. Those momentary feelings of relief and acceptance are a huge improvement. They ARE due to putting myself out there, though.

    Whether you end up realizing he’s not so great, or he feels you energetically disengage and comes running to find out where you went… it’s a win-win for YOU.



  244.  #244Andrea on January 30, 2014 at 7:41 am

    Shannon!!! You’re on fire!! I can’t wait to get back and read everything. I’ve got to get running, but everyone have a wonderful day.
    Just had an awesome talk with my Mom and realize once again what an incredible SIREN she is!!!
    A new blog post too from Rori?? I can’t wait to finish my day and get back home. hah!



  245.  #245Femininewoman on January 30, 2014 at 7:50 am

    T. Bradley has it ever occured to you that talk is cheap? Words can actually mean nothing to a man. You want an apology, okay here is one. Then he is on his merry because now he has gotten you off his back. He did what you required, went on his merry. And you are still stuck with the feeling. Maybe even feeling worse because you experienced him being even more non-chalant with an apology that meant nothing to him.

    I totally agree with Shannon



  246.  #246Dominique on January 30, 2014 at 7:58 am

    Akasha – 225 – Yes you answer the next time he calls, and you tell him how good it feels to hear his voice. Experiment over the next few weeks focusing on ONLY the thing which feel good, and express this to him. Try to ignore the rest – for now.

    And let him for the more part come to you with hugs and kisses. Men tend to not like to be smothered.

    As for your question about opening the articles, yes it likely is the country you’re in. I have a new webmaster who is more strict about this due to problems he’s experienced. If you write to me directly – dominique@sexandheart.com – giving me your address, I will ask him to allow you access which he has done for me before with someone else.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  247.  #247Lisa on January 30, 2014 at 8:24 am

    Last night I had TheWork set up to do and was doing yoga.. loving my new found self of Not Needing a man and Not wanting a man in the moment… and how free I felt after I heard my anger…

    Then “D” calls and we talk for over an hour and it was an unusual talk really… but he didn’t talk to me in a way that felt purging about his ex… and that felt good… He grew with me… our last talk was awkward and he said he didn’t want to talk about her but he did and I might have gotten my point across when I said I’m so happy you have your parents to talk to… this talk last night was better!!

    When he called and started to talk my heart started beating faster, I started to have feelings rise up… he mentioned our kisses and I know he has been thinking about me…. and I feel all stirred up again…inside…in a lot of ways…

    He is meeting other women, I’m happy about that…that is what he should be doing after a long marriage ending…

    he said you know I love that we always have lots to talk about…

    I feel strange though b/c he wants to send me pictures and he doesn’t have my e-mail address and I mentioned that… I said I’d send him my e-mail address… I know that isn’t leaning forward… but it feels like it is… I wonder if I just have gotten to the point where I just don’t want to lean in at all b/c that feels safe?

    I feel good about my work and how it all comes back to me… and how my anger is still working to help me be clear and I love that….

    It feels good to notice how peaceful it feels to NOT Want a relationship… and not search for one… and still one might find me…?

    @Mandy <3
    @Indigo I'm having the same issue… still have "M" in the back of my mind too… and in my heart… and I don't know what to do about it..

    OXOXO



  248.  #248T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 8:46 am

    Shannon,
    Girly I love it and feels like ive been knowing you forever!!!!!!!!! Im beginning to feel better by venting with you via the dang internet!!!!! And Andrea yes she is on FIRE!!!!!!!! I cant say Thank you enuf! Where are you located Shannon if you dont mind me asking?



  249.  #249Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 8:48 am

    T, I am in New Hampshire, USA.

    I’m so glad that you’re feeling better!



  250.  #250T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 9:03 am

    Shannon,
    Yes I am feeling better!!!!!!!! We must keep in touch!



  251.  #251Indigo on January 30, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Amber,

    Thank you, this piece of advice feels SO good: “check to make sure the BIGGEST piece of your heart belongs to YOU!” wonderful reminder, thank you! x

    Sophie,

    Thanks for the shout out! xxx



  252.  #252Indigo on January 30, 2014 at 9:29 am

    Also, today D contacted me for the first time in almost a month (not long after I wrote my above post). Synchronicity or something.

    It made my whole day feel weird.

    He just messaged to say hello and how are you.



  253.  #253Indigo on January 30, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Sophie,

    I’m very much with Kyla in #203 – I see you tiptoeing around B’s feelings and I would love to see you reclaim and harness just a little bit of your power. In my personal opinion, it’s a sexy, attractive thing to do – not unsireny at all.

    And I’m with Cupcake too – I want to put a pie in his face.

    Love to you xx



  254.  #254Shannon on January 30, 2014 at 10:13 am

    So J has gone right back into total shutdown mode. I told him that it felt nice to notice that in his contacts, he’d had me set as “home”. He gave me his trash phone, and when they put my contacts into it, his were still left on the phone. So no, I didn’t go snooping.

    His response was that he deleted his angry reply, and that we aren’t going to speak about it again…. this referencing, I am assuming, ‘the talk’ we were supposedly going to have about possibly getting back together.

    Now, I kept circular dating, because “we can talk” isn’t “we’re back together” in my mind.

    Should I not have done that?

    And is there a way to repair things if I shouldn’t have done that?

    I apologized that obviously I had just hurt him, and told him I didn’t want him to delete his real feelings… but of course, he hasn’t replied in any way.

    Now I’m just kind of angry and feeling disinterested. Feeling like HE is being a drama queen here. Did he expect me to drop everything and refuse to see anyone because he said he might be willing to maybe let me come crawling back?

    I am feeling pretty clueless here. What WOULD a siren do in this situation?

    I know that whether I get back with him or not, he’s practice… but frankly, it just feels pointless and kind of irritating right now.



  255.  #255T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    Akasha,
    Are you still chatting with us? Our situation seems so simialr even with the ages. You should get on the new blog!!!!!



  256.  #256Mandy on January 30, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    Shannon –

    Thank you for helping me feel not so alone! I truly do feel SO frustrated with myself sometimes but it takes me going into the bathroom dropping to my knees and just feeling stuff and riffing it out. I really need some riffing coaching. I always end up questioning whether I’m really feeling something or if my mind is playing a trick on me, then questioning if I really have any valid reason to love the feeling, so I think that prevents me from changing my brain from going to “kick myself” instead of “love myself”. Oh boy!

    Need help with that riffing!!!!



  257.  #257Amber on January 30, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    See you ladies on the next post!
    love to all!



  258.  #258Tereana on January 30, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    Amber – Yay!

    Cupcake – I *loved* your image of all of us as big Macy’s Day balloons, needing a bunch of guys to anchor us. It was so funny, it made me laugh : )

    You rock!

    See you on the newer post…



  259.  #259Syreena on January 31, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    I did this. This is what happened on several occasions with one man when I reflected back his words and I felt infuriated he then claimed and what it mean’t every single time he claimed he had used a wrong word to what he really mean’t. Thus changed the whole context and meaning of his sentences.
    So he was then claiming he mean’t something different to what he had originally said.
    Some things actually mean’t the complete opposite to what he really said just by changing one word in the sentence.
    One word for example was using the word all in a sentence instead of all which changed the whole meaning of the sentence. This makes communication feel very difficult with this one particular man as he claims he is not meaning what he originally said.

    I feel off about this as I don’t know if it’s the truth. Or if it’s deliberate to cause confusion when he later claims he mean’t to use a different word so he didn’t mean it and put doubt in my mind. Or if it is genuine as English was not a strong subject for him.

    Another man I did this with, it felt great even when we didn’t agree. The connection just felt great. For the first time EVER in my life I felt truly heard and got.

    I have not ever felt that before with anyone in my life.
    He gets me, It felt both good and scary at the same time as it did make me feel that if he wanted to he had more power than anyone to really hurt me or manipulate me as he knew what made me tick so well.



  260.  #260Syreena on January 31, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    all instead of any* Grrr too many typos, feeling tired.



  261.  #261Joan on February 16, 2014 at 6:01 am

    I just met a man on the website, named T, he is a virgo. he having a bad time now. He just want through
    sueing a college for discrimnation, they do not let him finish is goal in school. And he lost the case. He email me is has no career, or money now. And I am a piceses. he is a widower too. Can you please help me. Please!



  262.  #262Joan on February 16, 2014 at 6:02 am

    He is 51 years old, and I am 56 years old. We are the
    same religion too!



  263.  #263joan T on February 16, 2014 at 6:03 am

    I hope all of you have a nice day.