Relationship Therapy – A Road Trip To Phoenix And Sedona Arizona

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Sedona. Magical Gateway. Vortex of Energy. Red Rock. Majestic rock. And a road trip.

I’m preparing for a road trip with my husband through England, and so a road trip with him to Phoenix to see my best friend Virginia Feingold Clark and then to Sedona for some special time together seems like a good idea.

He’s going anyway for business, and so I hop aboard.

8 hours in the car.

My husband is Sir Galahad. Stops for gas, and so I can pee, I can eat. He stops when I look like I need to.

He wants me here with him, and he wants me happy.

And, like everybody, it’s hard to disengage from home. To not worry about my aging parents, my little dog in the loving, cage-less boarding place, all the balls I normally keep in the air now floating around freely or resting on the ground.

Leaving my comfort zone of what I can control. Going to sleep in unfamiliar beds. Going to be a house-guest in someone else’s home and leaving my own cocoon behind.

And – mostly – being with my husband 24/7 (we’re around each other a lot, both working from home much of the time) – in a place where I don’t have my stuff around me and he’s driving the car.

Here’s a Tool I made up for the car ride:

1. He’s driving.

Here – it means he’s literally driving the car.

It could also mean he’s calling, he’s asking you out, he’s driving the event, the relationship, his own life, his own body…

2. I’m NOT driving.

Here – it means I’m literally a passenger, I’m sitting, I have no control, no power to shape how we’re going down the road.

3. I’m sitting.

Here – it means my job is to sit.

4. My only job is to sit.

Here – it means my job is not to entertain, to talk, to…anything.

I define “sitting” here in the same way I would define “standing”:

Here – “sitting”  requires actually sitting down in the passenger seat – but it could apply to “standing” also, because both sitting and standing include:

*Being open-hearted.

*Being present.

*Being available.

*Feeling.

*Being with myself, being in the space, being in the bigger space outside the car…

*Being aware of my body and awake with my awareness…or

*Being asleep, literally.

5. So, This Is Easy.

I don’t have to do anything.

Nothing.

Now – for 8 hours, until we reach Virginia’s front door (and then for the next 5 days) – my job isn’t my work.

My job is to “be” – and the space of this “being” is called “on vacation,” and I wonder why can’t “on vacation” be a space we can live in much more of the time than we think we can?

In other words – is “sitting” and “standing” so different “on vacation” than it is at home?

Is “stress” a home-based phenomenon? Or is “stress” a way of being that I take with me everywhere?

And, if I take this “stress” place with me everywhere, can I then take my “not stress” place with me everywhere, too?

My husband has this wonderful way of expressing masculine energy in an uncompromising, direct, 24/7, all occasion sort of way.

He barks when I go into my masculine energy, when I stop “sitting” and start “managing” (even if I’m saying practically nothing) – so he’s like my very own “geiger counter.”

He’s like a little tick-tick-tick telling me to stop working, stop thinking, sit or stand back down – because – literally or not – he’s driving!

And so, we’re back to Step 1.

This will be a series of short Tools and ideas I picked up on the road….please let me know your own road-trip experiences and how they’ve helped you or hurt you…

Next post – how to use the space and your “Carnival of Feelings” to switch from “doing” to “sitting” in a way that actually feels MORE powerful instead of less.

***Oh – I realize that on a road trip you might be sharing the driving – and so that’s another post – how to manage your energy and still open up your girl when you’re actually being the boy and “driving the car” – literally the car, or perhaps in a business environment.

Love, Rori

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350 Comments

  1.  #1Brenda on May 28, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Beautiful article! Have a wonderful trip!

    I used to live in Phoenix…say hi to South Mountain for me.



  2.  #2Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:35 am

    Thanks for the article Rori. Enjoy your trip.



  3.  #3Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Vortex of energy. I love how that sound falls on my psyche.



  4.  #4luzydel on May 28, 2011 at 8:49 am

    So I am gradually back to CDing….ugh why am I doing this again? Friday date did not happen, guy set up the date, place and time’ I asked him to please confirm before we meet, he did not – the day before I sent him a txt asking him… “hey are we still up for Friday?” he did not reply, Friday came and he did not call or contact to confirm, so I left it alone and did some other things I needed to do. He has not called or apologizes; I am not going to bother with this one.

    Today another guy called me, he gave me his number, but I told him “I would feel better if he calls first” so he did and ugh! I don’t want to be judgmental, but I felt repulsed by him. I don’t like his personality, the way he talks and I feel bad about it, but I cannot be a man pleaser anymore, I don’t feel like taking it to the next step (meaning a date), I doesn’t feel genuine or authentic and I will not lie to myself on this one, so I have to find a polite way to let him go.
    I know CD is to practice and eventually find the right guy for me, but I cannot help feeling so disappointed, I guess I have to slow down on my expectations. I miss the idea made of a man named “D” or was it “P”? It doesn’t matter reality is right in front of me right now and I don’t like it so much.



  5.  #5Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Luzydel have you tried other sites?



  6.  #6luzydel on May 28, 2011 at 9:14 am

    A@ FW

    I have the usual sites, POF and OKC; I am saving now and do not want to spend extra money to go on dates. this is just something to shake up things a little, I was taking a break now I am back to it.
    This time I have more realistic views of what I don’t want.



  7.  #7Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Okay. I was going to suggest you might wish to try eHarmony seems a lot of people have good experiences there. Personally I prefer organic dates so now I accept every invitation I get. Last night I was on one where I enjoyed dancing and meeting some new guys. On those I can carry whichever of the kids want to go. Last night my daughter came and get a lesson from a guy of how men treat women, though he was suggesting that he was spoiling her. I told her right in front of him that is how real men behave and how she deserves to be treated.



  8.  #8DE on May 28, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Rori, wow…this post came at the right time 🙂

    Gosh,I feel a bit tearful cause I’ve been the “driver” in all possible ways for over eight years…and I have only 2 instances of road trips were I was a passenger since…

    So, tomorrow, a friend of mine (a guy) invited me on a road trip…details are not conclusive since pending on the NW weather…

    I’ve known him for 3 years, dated briefly…and part it away…stayed good friends…

    I always felt good in his company…peaceful, accepted…I think he is the only man I’ve known to “present” the idea of authenticity and truth to me…and I recall feeling scared by the amount of it…I was the “rubberband” because of it…lol I could not handle the truth…or my own truth really…

    So, now, I feel excited to experience being the passenger…being me…noticing myself…practicing openness…getting to now me in these instances…:)

    I feel smiley…hmm…oh, interesting, I also notice a bit of anxiety…of the unknown maybe?!

    Warm hugs,



  9.  #9LonePlum on May 28, 2011 at 10:20 am


  10.  #10Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Rori, Have an exceptional vacation and road trip.
    It sounds like so much fun and I love the Driving Tools. I like the idea, so much, of just being….here…

    I’ll use that on my next Harley ride. 🙂



  11.  #11Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Hey Lilybelle did you try melting on his back while you were on the bike? I wonder what that would feel like for him?



  12.  #12Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Sirens,
    I jsut returned from and excellent adventure of CDing ME!

    I went shopping, patiently shopping, allowing myself to spend as much time as I wanted ohhhing and awwiing over whatever struck me.

    I spent a wonderful time in Pier One. I don’t even know how much time and it doesn’t matter but the main thing I got out of this was that I really FELT my experience. There were soooooooooo many pretty thngs to spruce up my new apartment and I fell in love with the prettiest chair I have ever seen. I was grinning ear to ear the entire time, CDing other women in the store, talking with everyone…It was so fun!!!

    I pictured my new apartment (moving end of June) with all these new chair covers, wall hangings, throw pillows and I kept getting more and more excited. It is important to me that my home be comfortable and tastefully appointed. I find that I can do this relatively inexpensively by just adding things rather then starting all over.

    Oh! And they had the prettiest wine glasses. I can buy one of each one that I like…that will be so much fun!!!

    I left with a new decorative pillow for my bed, in the colors of my current comforter and a new wall hanging. I am so excited and can’t wait to go back.

    I feel great.

    I feel so excited that I don’t have to do it all at once, that I can buy a little bit at a time.

    If I could do things all over again, I would have been an interior decorator. I have a great eye for this and quite a talent I am told. I love it.

    I am so excited, I am rambling. hee hee..

    What a GREAT CD!! I never experienced shopping like that before…

    🙂

    ~Lilybelly.



  13.  #13Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:38 am

    11: That is a great question, FW.

    I have melted on the back of a former bf while riding. What happens when I do that is they lean back into you and then take a hand off the bike, reach back and wrap it around your calf.

    It feels fabulous.

    ~Lilybelly.



  14.  #14DE on May 28, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Lilybelle:

    Awesome…:) I am about to go on my CDs with myself 😉

    Massage, shopping, and later dancing some more 🙂

    Warm hugs,



  15.  #15T-Girl on May 28, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Rori, welcome to my part of the world! Have a great vacation!



  16.  #16Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:45 am

    DE~

    Have so much fun! I did look and try on a couple of Maxi’s but just haven’t found the right ones yet. I do see now, after trying them on, that I can totally rock them too!

    I did buy a new dress that I can use for work or play. Cute, cute, cute!!!

    Tight hugs! Let me know how it goes!

    ~Lil



  17.  #17Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:46 am

    15:
    T-Girl~ I was in Tucson for business early April and found the landscape of the desert beautiful.

    I had never been.



  18.  #18Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 10:46 am

    12 and 13 That feels absolutely awesome. Going shopping later, will definitely try feeling the experience and see if I can get excited. I tend to hate shopping especially for clothes for myself. I keep flip flopping about how I feel about my body. I am seeing the results of the workouts but not yet in my ideal size 10/12.



  19.  #19DE on May 28, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Lilybelle:

    Here is a store I felt in love with…:) Look at their dresses 🙂 I feel curious which one(s) inspire u 🙂

    Free People …indeed 🙂

    http://www.freepeople.com/clothes-dresses-and-rompers/roaring-era-dress/

    Warm hugs….



  20.  #20FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Lillybelle…what a fun day that sounds like! Have you thought about getting two wine glasses when you buy them? One for you and one for your happily-ever-after? (I’m thinking of the ‘acting-as-if’ you already have your “the one”)

    Just a thought I had reading your post… 🙂



  21.  #21Elizabeth on May 28, 2011 at 11:17 am

    hello Jilly!!

    I saw your shout-out to me. 🙂

    It’s so great to hear from you, and to hear you are happy with how things are going with your guy!

    It sounds like you are very ready to move into
    a new form of right livelihood for yourself!

    What is the one thing that you would love to spend a majority of your time doing, without even getting paid for it? well….aside from *that* 😉
    Determining this passion is a good start, and then you can use LOA to get it going!

    xoxo



  22.  #22FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 11:23 am

    FW…I can relate. I can wear size 10 jeans/pants—but I always have to get an XL or 12-14 size shirts because my shoulders are so big. I can get a large shirt ON, but when I move my arms it feels like the shoulders will rip right open. (It’s nothing I can ‘lose’ with a diet, either–just how I’m built.) I’m only 5′ tall, but I have big feet (size 8 or 81/2) and these big shoulders. Ugh…makes it hard to find clothes sometimes. (And the XL sizes are always at least $5.00 more!)

    Just yakking a bit…thinking about dresses and skirts for this summer too—as my legs are no longer fit to wear shorts (I’m very pale and have lots of veins, etc.–not a good look.) And dresses are so comfortable and make me feel pretty 🙂



  23.  #23Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 11:26 am

    DE~

    Now THIS is the kind of place I’ve been looking for.

    Here are just a few so far, that feel like me:

    Crinkle Maxi Dress (LOVE this!!)
    Miles of Henley Dress
    Moonbeam Maxi Skirt with this belt:
    Marmara Wrap Belt

    🙂



  24.  #24Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Someone might resonate with some of what is said here.

    http://datingwithdignity.com/2011/05/the-dating-den-should-you-ask-him-out/



  25.  #25Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 11:28 am

    20: Flower:

    I was going to buy four/six of them…all different, but maybe I will just buy two and state that intention when I purchase them…

    Good thinking…



  26.  #26FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Oh, DE….

    I love, love, love these dresses and accessories–but way out of my budget. Thank you for sharing, though. I now have a better idea of what I want to ‘attract.’ 😉



  27.  #27Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Flowerchild77 What I have learnt from experience though is that guys seem to prefer us in dresses. It seems it look sexy to them. I started buying some last year.



  28.  #28flower on May 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

    so yes as usual esp around this time of the month (ovulation) i just get so many men stare at me or come to me and.. as many women hating me (haha the 2nd part feels good) and i stay open as possible but so what if my focus is on me with that guy who doesnt want me or acts weird at times or i dunno how to call him , but he presses the trigger in me ..sigh..saturday night..ok ill go party , just wish it wasnt so cold so i wonder if i should drive or do the 10min cold walk or just wear black jeans (but maybe not as wardrobe is full of unworn clothes) though mood going down , or should i let him offer me a lift a in the old good times, after – if he is around there and he might not be

    and for me its annoying being good looking, ll these guys , yeah options but so what when my heart and mind made choice



  29.  #29Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 11:53 am

    25:

    My apologies. Flowerchild..this was to you. 😉

    ~Lil



  30.  #30Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    omg im in such a wonderful space

    i am able to contact men and say, hey, im feeling kinda tired, im feeling lonely , can you help me?

    and then, even though they were all busy so far,

    their answers are so warm!

    and i can HEAR them

    like i ACTUALLY HEARD GETRIGHT man

    say

    “my bad = i am sorry”

    i am busy i am leaving the house and then im going to work!

    he did NOT have to say “my bad” it just felt so great

    and then i was like “okay :)”

    its feeling great

    and i had a wonderful time wiht my og partner and his woman last night

    and i had conflicts with her before but last night it felt so warm and open

    AND THEN I STOOD UP TO THIS MAN WHO WAS TALKING TO SEXUALL”Y TO ME

    AND I HAD TO REPEAT MYSELF

    AND SAY I FELT ANGRY

    AND THEN *THE MAN!!!!* SAID … GOOD FOR YOU

    SPEAK HOW YOU FEEL THEN GIRL, OR ELSE PEOPLE WILL RUN OVER YOU

    OMG!

    incredible



  31.  #31Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    and i was able to hear my dad answer MY QUESTION

    of “is that ok?” (which i said out of habit)

    and he said its not ok, he felt upset that i am not calling earlier, and sounded worried about me

    i heard it AS LOVE AND CARING

    and as a MAN BEING HONEST ABOUT WHATS GOING ON WITH HIM!

    omg!

    and he didnt attack me

    and that was it

    and i feel great!

    i feel so honoring of my father seeing it this way, as him being honest

    and me facilitating his anger

    and hearing him

    i just feel so good

    and i feel a lil scared aobut seeing him when i get home, and i feel really curious what it would feel like to say , i heard you earlier on the phone and im sorry i did not call earlier like we agreed on. thank you for caring about me and i dont want you to worry



  32.  #32Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    i feel afraid to bring this up, because i feel a bit defensive around it, and it would feel really good to just say that i feel sorry that i did not call. i know you might feel worried when you dont hear from me, and i dont want you to feel worried even if you don’t, because it feels easier for me to just not call sometimes when i feel sleepy and fall asleep. thank you for caring about me, and im sorry for not calling at an earlier time like we agreed upon



  33.  #33Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    sometimes it feels fun not to call, because i feel more free to not have to check in, i start feeling really reigned in and then without even meaning to i start to slack off on the time of calling.

    and i know you worry and i dont want you to

    and i agreed to call and i appreciate you caring about me.

    i think i can do a better job of making sure you know im safe and im sorry for not doing that at an earlier time



  34.  #34FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    FW…perhaps they love us in dresses because we feel so much more like a Siren when we wear them. It ‘ups’ our vibe big time! 😉



  35.  #35Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    I sometimes don’t know how to take this. Steve is taking care of his bro. who has only up to 5 mo.s to live. Steve has just been put on a liver transplant list and is struggling with his own health issues. Since Steve has to be with Rick now pretty much 24/7 I don’t see a lot of him. I went to their house a few times, even cleaned some and brought them dinner, but Steve doesn’t ask me over a lot. I am starting to feel a little pushed aside. It’s a holiday week-end and he has a pretty bad cough, Steve. So once again he didn’t invite me over. SO I guess I’ll go and visit with my sister…..I just don’t know if I should say something or not. Any suggestions anyone?



  36.  #36FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Jeannette,

    This reminds me of the relationship I left last year. He is a man of very few words and would have never ended things—ever. He’s very non-confrontational (and also gets a streak of passive/aggressive every now and then).

    I’m the one who had to leave…because it wasn’t enough for me. I wasn’t getting what I needed. But things were fine for him–it was enough for HIM. He still doesn’t understand.

    And one of the things that bothered me the most was not having anyone to “do things” with or spend holidays with. I know how you feel.

    I understand that they’re both very ill and maybe Steve just can’t do relationship right now. Maybe his illness (in addition to his brother’s) makes him unavailable. Have you thought about CDing and still being there for him? I certainly wouldn’t withdraw my friendship or concern from their situation, but you have every right to do what’s best for YOU…and you don’t sound happy 🙁



  37.  #37Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    FlowerChild77, thanks for your response. Your ex sounds like my man. And when I ask for more attention I think he thinks I come across as needy. I’m not all that needy, I am just human. How could I open up a conversation with him about this? Should I say something like, “Do you think you just arn’t in a place to be in a relationship right now? I am going out to dinner with my sister and I will be back on here later.



  38.  #38Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    I also don’t think he gets it because he has Rick living with him and probably just isn’t as lonely as I am.



  39.  #39FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Oh…I didn’t address your last question. I wouldn’t say anything to him. I’d just go about my life. Does he call you, contact you, do the initiating? When we stop that kind of stuff (calling, arranging, making plans, asking to see them, stopping over) we can see how much effort the guy is making (if any) to be with us.

    You can still be there for him and care about him without cutting yourself off from finding the kind of love you really long for and need. <3 (((Hugs)))



  40.  #40Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Jeanette, I have to believe that he is feeling deep sadness and loss with his brothers pending death, not to mention his own health issues. I wouldn’t expect anything from him at this time and would focus completely on taking care of me and being there for him when he needs it. And, I also wouldn’t take it personally.

    I can’t imagine how he must feel.

    Bless all of your hearts… <3



  41.  #41Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Jeannette you were on my mind today. I want to let you know that I have known of coaches who says some men need a crisis to bond. Thinking of that and your situation I am thinking that maybe after Steve passes he might look at you again through different eyes. He might have a new insight on how fragrile and short life is. That might bring him closer to you. But for right now I believe it is best for you if you acknowledge all you have is this moment and choose to live the best life despite all the relationship issues. He is still a man and might need to know that you could live life even if he is not there with you.



  42.  #42FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Oooohh…my responses sound coldhearted and mean now that I’ve read FW’s and Lillybelle’s…

    I’m sorry….<3



  43.  #43Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    FlowerChild77 It just sounded matter of fact to me, I can’t speak for Jeannette but it didn’t strike me as coldhearted. Plus we have the benefit from prior posts of Jeannette’s history with the situation. I also want to see her take care of herself and live life full out.



  44.  #44Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    I agree with FW, Flowerchild..

    ~Lil.



  45.  #45Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Lilybelle want to let you know that you and DE inspired me today to treat myself to some shoes. I have been wanting to purchase a pair of high heeled wedges in gold but kept putting it off. I went to shop for graduation for my daughter and saw a pair that is comfortable and I absolutely love. I tried them on and they were perfect so said I am not going to leave them because when I really need them I might not be able to find them. Feel proud of treating myself. Also tried on some smaller dress sizes but prefer to wait till I am really comfortable in them. Thanks for the inspiration.



  46.  #46Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Have to add, thinking of LG’s inspiration, I feel excited about how I feel about my life and the possibilities I have come to realize that I can create. I am feeling excited about life.



  47.  #47Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Can you imagine I can be my awesome self. OOOiiiiii muah to me.



  48.  #48Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Well thank you everyone for your thoughts. This morning Steve sent me an email and said, “I notice you don’t email me as much as before.” I sent him one back just saying I’ve been under the weather too, which I have. I just think he overplays the emails too much. It’s nice to get sweet little emails from ea other daily, which he likes, but sometimes I think it’s just as nice getting a phone message at work and saying something like, “I’m thinking of you babe.” Maybe I get a little analytical sometimes…..what woman doesn’t!! But sometime I think he uses the emails so he doesn’t have to call as much or come by sometimes. It’s like a wall he puts up or something…..I mean why email anyway, he lives 30 minutes down the road. BUt he has been doing this for the last year. He says sometimes you can say stuff in a email you can’t say in person. Well he really doesn’t say anything all that personal in most his emails.



  49.  #49Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Oh just to remind you, Steve and I are supposed to be engaged to be married….so I can’t just start CDing without his permission.



  50.  #50RiverGirl on May 28, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Daria, I just replied to your post 406 on the previous thread.



  51.  #51Venus on May 28, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Jeannette often the men we meet are messengers. The trick is to find out what the message is . It seems to me that you should be focused more on what you really want instead of trying to make a situation what you need . Its actually very simple but not easy. We get all tangled up with thinking and blaming .when your heart is open you are authentic . your perception and energy shifs and you draw positive energy .It comes with KNOWING you are worthy, not just thinking it. It may be time to put Steve on your horse, lean back and enjoy the ride. I personally dont want a man that doesnt want me. Thats where the worthy part comes in. I find it intriguing when we think we want what we cant have. I find it awesome when we realise we can have everything we want .



  52.  #52Turquoise3 on May 28, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Jeanette… it sounds like things have pretty much stayed the same with your relationship with Steve. I guess you need to accept that this is how he is, and what it will be for now, or consider making a change. Maybe telling him how you are feeling would open his eyes and make him think about how he feels about you and your future. He sounds very private, is his behavior vastly different now than when you got engaged?



  53.  #53Turquoise3 on May 28, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    My allergies have been acting up all day. It’s 9:15 on a Saturday night, and I’m thinking of just taking a bath and going to bed. The girls had a double header this morning so I got to spend some time with them and my ex, and we went to lunch together afterwards. He’ll be leaving in a few days, going to be so hard for the girls. I wish life was easier… should be at least when you are a child.

    Mike2 came to meet me and some friends last night, and then came over for awhile. We talked a lot and kissed a lot. It’s nice, but I’m trying to take things slow. I’ve seen him 3 times this week, and he told me to know what my plan was for tonight, that he might be able to slip away and come see me. (they have guests visiting) I don’t want to see him everyday, it’s too much too soon. He invited me again, to come over to his parent’s house tonight. I told him I really appreciated the offer, but thought it was too soon to be meeting the parents.

    We discussed his career plans today and he’s thinking he’ll be in school 3 years, and asked me to be patient with him. I really wanted to say, we’ll see how things go… but I didn’t say anything about us, just made a comment about it being good he has a plan. I am not about to commit to a guy who has a 3 year plan before he thinks he’ll be working professionally. This one is going to be a lot of practice for me!



  54.  #54Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Venus and Turquise3, I know I need to put my wants first. Even though Steve and I are engaged, I think he is essentially unavailable because of everything going on. And really that is how I need to start seeing it. So perhaps I need to just start finding other things to do. A man just finds time to call all the time if he is really into you…..he doesn’t. You’d think he’d call more than ever because he has to be with his brother….but he doesn’t, just the same as before. I can’t understand why he was calling it to my attention earlier in the day that I haven’t been emailing as much as I used to…..look at what he’s doing. He doesn’t even hardly ever say he loves me anymore when he gets off the phone….now there is something to gripe about, right? Sometimes I think it’s just easier to walk away without any words…..just let it happen.



  55.  #55Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    RE 48 Jeannete that sounds like what he has to offer for now and it also sounds to me like he looks forward to getting your emails. It might be the one thing that brightens his day and the one thing you might be able to use for him toget your message. If you are important in his life he will miss this part of it if it goes missing for a while and might just come looking for you. What I have learnt is that men respond to space more than they do to words. I would stop the words both orally and written.



  56.  #56Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Jeannette there are guys who just don’t like the phone. They tend to use it as a tool for business.



  57.  #57Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Well Steve said he’d call me back later tonight and it’s later and he has not called. I told him I might be going to see my sister who is in town at my mothers and if he don’t get me here he can call my cell. Well I got back and he hasn’t even called here! Should I let him know that I am not happy about that… or should I just let it go? Wouldn’t you think that was disrespectful of him? He isn’t feeling his best and said he was going out to get cough medicine. I think the thing that bothers me most is that when he’s hanging up these days when he DOES CALL….he doesn’t say he loves me. He used to most of the time. Should I be upset that he didn’t call? Should I ask him why he doesn’t say he loves me most of the time?



  58.  #58Laughing Goddess on May 28, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Hi! I can’t stay for long cuz I’m in the middle of a big project.

    Jeanette: Have you read Rori’s ebook?

    For me, there are no easy answers that I can give in regard to your situation with Steve.

    From my perspective it seems that a paradigm shift is needed in this situation and the first step is to take your focus off him.

    You know the saying…it’s something like…the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over.

    I don’t see things changing with Steve until you take some baby steps towards shifting your own vibe which will eventually lead to an overall paradigm shift for you, your vibe, and being true to your vision of the relationship you want.

    I see that you are taking baby steps of leaning back.

    Have you tried any of the other tools here? Perhaps sinking into your feelings, riffing, practicing scripting, etc would help you to feel better and find the answers you are looking for.



  59.  #59Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Rori’s Words

    Keep your eye on the prize: Stop giving all your energy to managing your man and everything in your daily lives, and start using it to love yourself first.



  60.  #60Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    Love these Rori words

    Touching love feels like oh, I did that, and I feel love for that person, that thing, or myself, and I feel sad for the pain I caused them, or me, and I`m still a good person, and I still absolutely, completely, deeply and profoundly love and accept myself. Touching love is all of a sudden stopping the resistance of that knot in your belly, and just feeling what you feel.

    It`s stopping smiling, blaming, counting, imagining, justifying, excusing, making up stuff, wishing, hoping, and everything else and just feeling the weight of not feeling good. For maybe a good solid moment. And then, getting back on the horse, and riding it out of the sand and onto the road. The moment you turn to the horse and say, I`ve made a mistake and I can still ride like the wind, time starts again, the weather starts again, and the message signs all around start blinking.



  61.  #61pippa on May 28, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Hi all,

    So I have been a bit quiet as of late and I am hoping that I can get some feedback.

    So, we went from dating to ‘I don’t want to commit to anyone now’ (and I do know he has done this with other women) to friends with benefits to just friends. Now he want me to come up with a plan to move out relationship forward (presumably our friendship) because he feel I am an incredible person to know (I can get things done for him that he can’t) we have a lot in common, etc. etc. He has not treated me terribly well — apparently sleeping with me made him cheap. So I thought about things – and then came back to him and said that I don’t think this is healthy. He was not happy with me at all. He was angry and said – well I guess you have not had enough time to think about things. When we got off the phone he texted me saying that he hoped I would get a good idea soon and Good luck. Oh and then he asked me about his damaged phone.

    Apparently I have now hurt him – at least that is what he is saying. Plus he is concerned about all of the things that we had on the go – computer stuff, his taxes etc. He is unhappy that I have not come back to him with a mission statement or plan on how we repair things and move them forward. I told him I would think about things.

    Anyone have any idea on how I fix this? Or if I can fix it? Do I just walk away completely?



  62.  #62Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    58: (((LG)))

    How’s your project going?



  63.  #63Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    OKay, Laughing Goddess, I want a man that is wanting to be available for me and is interested in finding ways to do that in spite of his situation. We work together to just make it work….because we want it to. So here goes my vibe…..I am going to look ea day at what it is I want and set my sites for it. I will move out of my depression because I will be looking for ways to be happy ea day. I will say something like this to Steve, “I understand you’re not feeling well and you’re wanting to be there for Rick. I will look for things to do to fill up my days in healthy happy ways. How is that for starters?



  64.  #64Venus on May 28, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Jeannette, DO NOTHING ! I know how frusterated you must feel but you just have to do nothing. Your male energy should be looking after you and not Steve. There is no need to explain a thing .You dont need his approval of your choices. Bacause they are yours you must know they are right. A confident siren is a happy siren.



  65.  #65FlowerChild77 on May 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Yes! The teachings of Abraham (work of Esther and Jerry Hicks) call this Segment Intending and it’s wonderful. I find I get so much accomplished and can keep my vibe in a good place when I use this ‘tool’.

    I find that making the “segments” short and specific works best for me. The most amazing things have happened when I do this 🙂 (And, yes, it works to get my mind off of ‘him’ and feeling bad about the situation.)

    I’ll let the other Sirens comment on your feeling message to Steve because I’m so new at this. I just feel like I can relate to how you feel after spending 12 years with a man who ‘relates’ in this way…and I do believe with all my heart that he does, indeed, love me—but with limited capacity and not the way I need to be loved. I don’t think it’s about Steve not ‘loving’ you…which may or may not help you to feel better about it.

    I will remember you (and Steve and his brother/family) in my prayers. Keep us posted about how you feel and how things are going. <3



  66.  #66RiverGirl on May 28, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    Venus,

    Are you a coach? I would be interested if you were willing to share some of your story here.



  67.  #67Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Venus and Flower Child77, Thank you guys, are you saying Venus it is okay, even being engaged to Steve, to go out with another man and not tell Steve?



  68.  #68Needing a Simpler Life on May 28, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Hello everyone,
    I stumbled onto this blog and thought maybe I could get some feedback on my own relationship chaos.
    I’ve never posted anything online before, mostly out of fear of my husband or his employees mysteriously finding out but I’ve decided to try to just keep it simple, even though it’s not.
    I enjoyed reading your comments, many of you give off some good energy. 🙂
    I myself, am a writer (even though my grammar is the worst) 🙂 and I’m used to giving advice but just don’t know how to apply it to myself.
    I have been married for 28 years. I have 2 wonderful adopted children that mean the world to me. (16 & 29)
    I love watching them as they build their own lives and though they can certainly be difficult at times, the joy they also bring is much greater BUT…
    I am also an average mom who does get ticked off occasionally & while raising them I certainly had my moments when the thought of wrapping duct tape around their heads to close off their smart mouths
    Overall though, I consider them a gift from God thats on “loan
    to me” till God says otherwise.be difficult at times) bring me much happinessreally know where to start but I guess first off….any ideas on how to recover your self confidence?



  69.  #69Venus on May 28, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Rivergirl, my story is not me anymore . It made me who I am today and Im very greatful for that. My story is essentially the same as everyone. I believe that we are put here with purpose , to live our authentic life and make a difference in others lives. This is where my journey has taken me.



  70.  #70Venus on May 28, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Jeannette, this really has nothing to do with steve. Its not about a man , its all about you. Leave a man out of the equation for a while. See what its like to just be you. Get to know yourself again. Fill your life and time with what you want to do. It will open all kinds of doors for you.



  71.  #71RiverGirl on May 28, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Jeanette,

    Can you find a way to tell Steve how you are feeling? Express your fears to him? I don’t want to put words in your mouth and others are much better at doing feeling messages than me, but perhaps, if it feels authentic, something like I’ve written below might let him know what you are feeling.

    “I’m confused. I love you and miss you and feel scared that we are drifting apart. I don’t want to take you away from your brother when he needs you the most. I want you to stay with him and care for him and I want to find a way for us to feel close too. I don’t know what to do.”

    You may decide not to do anything now. Like others have said it is important to know what your vision for YOUR relationship is. It may or may not be with this particular man. Take care of you.
    xoxo



  72.  #72Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Steve is on the transplant list for a liver now after talking with his doctor the other day. She said, “Who is going to take care of you while you’re recovering from the transplant?” He said, “My fiance is, her and I have talked about it.” So then she went ahead and put him on the list. I guess what bothers me is this….Who is taking care of Jeannette through all of this? He is over there with his brother and you’d think he would call me more when he can’t come over now as much to see me and ask me to go over there more. Stuff like that. But instead he just there. I know he doesn’t feel good though. I feel selfish for my feelings but my feelings are real! I want someone to hold me and tell me everything is going to be alright. I don’t want to feel this loneliness and emptiness. Is he too sick and ladden down with problems to not get this or what? I feel he should want to take me out to dinner when he can get away and tell me he loves me and misses me. Doesn’t he get that? Why is his love so limited anyway? I’m the one who is going to be there for him during his hard recovery. Why wouldn’t he just want to reserve something for me for being there for him?



  73.  #73Jeannette on May 28, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    I took a risk in saying what I just did because it can sound very selfish and some on this site have told me that. People have said that Steve is a very sick man and if you can’t be more understanding then that then perhaps you should just leave him alone. Really a part of me gets that too.



  74.  #74RiverGirl on May 28, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    @69

    Thank you Venus. Yes, we are mostly all wanting much the same out of life – love, purpose and fulfilment. It just reveals itself in different ways and at different times for each of us.



  75.  #75Venus on May 28, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Needing a simpler life, I believe confidence is the ability to allow yourself to know you are worthy. Know you are heard and loved. Confidence demands a good energy. That energy when given out will come back to you as good energy amping your confidence. I find feeling greatful leads to accomplishment which in turn builds confidence. Its really already in you you just have to allow your self to feel it. I hope this helps.



  76.  #76Daria on May 28, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Jeanette – I really feel for you reading the last post. You deserve great treatment… And I feel so touched and overwhelmed for you in thus situation, I would like to recommend circular daring, and I feel afraid to … Rock the boat of this relationship…

    It ses very much you giving and definitely Not what a Jeanette affirming and adoring relationship is about… Can you start to imagine that God is the one in charge, not you? Can that perhaps help you detach a little bit from the obligation you feel to take care of Steve while neglecting your needs for love?

    Is it possible to imagine that he’s taken care of by a higher power? And that you are free to go on opening to love, perhaps with other men, while being a reflection of that power abd a support to Steve when he asks for your help?

    Big hugs.



  77.  #77Daria on May 28, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Needing a simpler life – finding my feelings and speaking my Truth in the moment, – in feeling messages, without blame – built up my self esteem.

    Everytime you express your authentic truth, your self esteem raises.



  78.  #78Daria on May 28, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Pippa – you are approaching this trying to be reasonable and mature…

    And what actually comes through is your ANGER.

    Read everything you can, get the e-book it has the basics.

    Get in touch with your anger, find ways to express it in new ways, no blame, feeling messages and don’t wants.

    But get in touch with your raw anger first .

    Riff it out here… Just write all as it cones to you, paying attention to your body sensations and the accompanying flashes of insight in a stream-of-consciousness way.

    Keep yelling yourself you love yourself, you love your feelings

    You are deep into overfunctioning, so from the book you will learn about that. And Stop.

    Everything can turn around for you



  79.  #79Laughing Goddess on May 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Jeanette: re 63

    All of that sounds so beautiful to me.

    Also, not only do I think it would be okay for you to cd, I think it would be a kind thing to do for Steve because then it would take pressure off of him. I feel confident that he loves you and he is just doing the best he can right now and it’s understandable that you don’t feel satisfied with it.

    How do you feel about cd-ing while engaged? Would it feel better to break off the engagement first?



  80.  #80Rori Raye on May 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Needing – Welcome and everything here is about self-confidence. It begins with taking magnificent cared of yourself – inside and outside – and loving every last little bit of you no matter what you might think about that bit. You don’t say how you “lost” your self-confidence that you want to recover …and I know you’ll get tremendous help here. Love, Rori



  81.  #81Laughing Goddess on May 28, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Lillybelle: Hi! The project is going great and keeping me very busy. I feel excited to wrap it up and move on to something new.

    I really enjoyed reading about your shopping trip!

    Hugs!



  82.  #82Rori Raye on May 28, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    pippa – do you still have feelings for this oaf? Are you happy being his “friend” and helping him with his stuff for free? Either dump him and end all contact, or tell him the truth, that you have strong feelings for him, and “friends” isn’t working for you, and so you need some space. And if he wants more than friendship – a real relationship – then he’ll have to lead that train because you’re not feeling good chasing after him. See what he does…Love, Rori



  83.  #83Daria on May 28, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Rivergirl – sadness is just a feeling. Rage is a feeling.

    Sinking into them can lead to … Expanding … As I embrace them – this from the marvelous Rori Raye

    What you read was me riffing

    I can get really raw in there and I say the things that I dare to say that scare me most, or practice giving voice to parts of me I might have hidden

    I feel surprised and curious it moved you to offer me compassion and help…

    I feel both loved and a bit uncomfortable

    I feel a bit at a loss to know what to say…

    and I appreciate your caring for me, thank you



  84.  #84Daria on May 28, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Yay Rori is here – Jesus! –

    Rori do you have some words for Jeanette while she’s on board here? I feel so overwhelmed and confused putting myself in her shoes…



  85.  #85Rori Raye on May 28, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Jeannette – I’m not sure that a man in his situation (close to death, filled with fear and resistance to it) is capable of giving you anything. If it were me – I’d search the net for support groups for spouses with sick husbands and see what you’re in for. Do you still want to marry him if this is all he can do until he recovers? Caretaking someone is huge…and yet, we all saw American Idol with the fellow whose fiance had a brain injury and he’s been taking care of her for years. Some people are cut out for that. I’m not sure I am – are you? I think Gene Wilder wrote a lot about life with Gilda Radner when she was dying of cancer (and thank goodness – you’re both blessed that he’s on the transplant list) – where every argument ended with him saying – you WIN – you win because you have cancer! And I think that’s what’s going on. He isn’t buying that he’s supposed to be responsible for taking care of your needs while he’s sick. And if I were you – I’d be mightily conflicted and dealing with guilt and on top of it – everything HE’S stuffing down – YOU FEEL! This is complex – go study up and let us know what you find. Love, Rori



  86.  #86Rori Raye on May 28, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Jeannette – I also wonder if you’re trying to be the “strong one” here – when actually, you’re entitled to be an emotional creature – you’re a woman with feelings! The more you can communicate them without making him wrong – the better. Love, Rori



  87.  #87Rori Raye on May 28, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Daria – yes – I’ve written to Jeannette a few times, here…I’m so in love with you all…and Daria – you sound magnificent, I so love to hear your voice here. Love, Rori



  88.  #88Venus on May 28, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Nothing that Jeannette said suggested she would be open to cding (men) at this time I can feel the anger in her posts. Anger and fear. We should be inviting her to feel her feelings so that when she gets back out there its with confidence not need. Just a thought



  89.  #89Daria on May 29, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Thank you Daria for practicing mindfulness body gentleness.

    Thank you for taking me out for fun last night

    Thank you for making sure I felt comfortable.

    Thank you for speaking up for me.

    Thank you for telling my vulnerable truth.

    Thank you for breathing into my tight parts and releasing them.

    Thank you for biking and walking with me.

    Thank you for listening deeply.

    Thank you for taking me up the library.

    Thank you for taking notes of my feelings and insights.

    Thank you for feeding me yummy food.

    Thank you for giving me hydrangea and astragalus tincture.

    Thank you for brushing my teeth.

    Thank you for brushing my hair.

    Thank you for bathing me.

    Thank you for feeding me.

    Thank you for dressing me in warm clothes.

    Thank you for getting me to a good place to nap.

    Thank you for taking me to the park.

    Thank you for asking for help .

    Thank you for writing here.

    Thank you for dressing me in attractive clothing.

    Thank you for redirecting my thoughts.

    Thank you for verbally embracing me consistently.

    I fell in love w u Daria, I felt my heart overflowing and I felt safe And my heart swelling w pride to walk w u down the
    street.

    I admire you. You are my hero.

    I appreciate you.



  90.  #90Daria on May 29, 2011 at 12:30 am

    Thank you for shaving my legs, exfoliating my feet.

    Thank you for putting my razor in alcohol.

    Thank you for reorganizing my bathroom stuff and taking away the things I no longer need.

    Thank you for waxing my mustache.

    Thank you for doing EFT.

    Thank you for keeping my focus on compassion and openess.

    Thank you for smoking with me and setting healing intent.

    Thank you for really ‘going there’ with the possibilities of feeling good.

    Thank you for choosing comfortable shoes.

    Thank you for stretching my body.

    Thank you for putting me in bed



  91.  #91Daria on May 29, 2011 at 12:55 am

    Thank you for doing energy exercises for me.

    Thank you for doing ttapp exercises . I feel delighted!



  92.  #92Daria on May 29, 2011 at 12:57 am

    Thank you for reading me the damn auto correct site



  93.  #93RiverGirl on May 29, 2011 at 1:09 am

    Daria, I’m a feeling a little surprised by your comments @83. I also feel a little patronised being told what feelings are and what riffing is – they are not new to me. Please don’t be offended by that, I’m just saying what I felt, and I realise that you are responding from your own confusion about what I was getting at.

    I don’t want to make a big deal out of what started out as just a suggestion, stemming from something I remembered from my own experiences. I’m sorry that you felt uncomfortable. I feel strange being questioned about why I would care about someone else – that has never happened to me before. It has been interesting for me to ponder on that though, so thank you.



  94.  #94Needing a Simpler Life on May 29, 2011 at 2:44 am

    Hello everyone,
    I stumbled onto this blog and thought maybe I could get some feedback on my own relationship chaos.
    I’ve never posted anything online before. I was raised that one should not discuss any difficulties (The main reason I’ve found it almost impossible to ask for physical help if I had nothing to offer in exchange) but here I am seeking ya’lls knowledge, thoughts and ideas and just so you know, all I have to offer in return is my own knowledge, thoughts, experiences and ideas. So, feel free to ask me anything on
    ya’lls minds. I’m out spoken (just in case you can’t tell)

    I’m no expert but I have lived serveral years of experienes in this one life. Argh! 🙂
    Some people might see my hard times as unfortunate but once again, all of my experiences, even the painful ones, made me who I am and I really do like who I am.
    I’m unique, outgoing, quick learner, will think in the box but I’m also going to think outside of it, if I can I will try to help anyone who is trying to help themselves. I’m very caring but I dont take no crap off people, I don’t like micro-managing people, I don’t like negative gossip but love good news! I can show anyone respect for what they have accomplished and their knowledge if i’m in the employee role, human resources or running my own business and
    given the appropriate setting, I’ll definately want to hear their
    story and “pick their brain” but on a personal note they will
    also have to have integrity and care about others if they
    want my respect. (i sound like I’m applying for a job or some
    online dating service lol). Just hang with with me here. I’m
    trying to aint a picture. I’m very grateful for all I have been given, my husband made a very good living for his family. His career required long hours & stressful situations at times. I am also grateful to the people who believed in me enough
    to give me a chance at many thingsMoLars not kid ourselves, money is important. It can provide all our basic needs of food, water & shelter and it can certainly make some of life’s duties a little easier to endure by providing comforts. Yes, it’s needed to live but I believe its the people
    that walk with you in this life & lifestyle that really makes
    making money fun.
    I can be content in a deer stand in November or catching
    speckled trout & redfish in May. I’m street smart, book smart,
    I’m country as heck (prefer worn out jeans & tshirts and a beer over wine) but I can be refined when the occasion or work requires it.
    I have given a lot because I chose to and I still have a lot to offer to the right person and the right company (looking for a new career) BUT for now and the last 4 years I feel like I HAVE BEEN FROZEN and I cannot continue this way!
    I have to FIGURE OUT WHY I’M STUCK.
    philosophy is like reading any book. Its only someone’s perspective in print. out there has ideas, as long as they are legal, don’t require me to lie (I suck at it) lol, don’t require me to steal, and don’t hurt others, I’ll try it! If it works, great! If not, I’ll just toss it and go onto the next one! 🙂 long as they areI’m desperately hoping that a few of you are “out of the
    box” thinkers. So, i’ve decided to try to just keep it simple, even though it’s not.
    I enjoyed reading your comments, many of you give offgood energy. 🙂 So, ladies, if you don’t mind, could youshare your thoughts & ideas because honestly,(ms.creative,afraid of nothing) has run out of ideas.I grew up with my mother telling me, “You are one of themost caring children she had ever seen but also one of the The result-a
    a fearless, caring, hard working, street educated, book educated and grateful young woman.
    I felt good about myself. I was authentic. I never met a stranger. I had friends from all spectrums, from hugh financial successes to homeless. I always tried to accept people for exactly who they were at that time in their life.
    I could almost always see past the outside material things, I believe that each person is born with the same special “light” inside them that connects all people but as we each walk our lifes journey we each pick up different things, good stuff, bad stuff, junk, materialistic objects etc. These things are the
    visable differences but inside of me I felt I was on the right
    path. My husband used to say, that I could
    calm a rattle snake to the point that he would willingly give me his rattler but if that didn’t work he said my caring outgoing personality would charm the rattler right off. lolprefer to say, my difficult childhood, years of reading, journaling, 6 years of counseling, over 100 hours of university hours, a EMT certification, a legal secretary certification, a respiratory therapy tech certification, 9 years
    of high school, 5 years of raising 3 step children, 29 years
    of marriage and 25 years of raising my own children, having
    12-23 of my sons teenage friends coming in and out, eating
    sleeping, almost every weekend for the last 2 years and a
    husband who let me ask him tons of questions over the
    years about many things that he reassured me were, common in most all males (helping make me a better understanding mom).

    determined and creative your going to make a difference have always been a stay at home mom. I with my husbandscareer. After the first 11 moves we were approached (by my son himself) and asked if we him. 🙂 long story there but we did. He was 10 at the time of adoption..
    I also began looking for ways to cut our personal costs so I started spending many hours at night reading everything I
    could find on “do-it-yourself” home remodeling.
    Next I found a contractor who would let me barter my time in exchange for his knowledge and I spent a few weeks helping him during my sons school hours. I did whatever he needed help with and in exchange I got to learn more about fixinwalls, crown molding, flooring and the basics of some electrical.
    for more I then began

    what would turn out to be 6 home remodels during all our moving. I their value so at the time of sale we made a decent profit. During, the moving and house remodeling I also attended school, full time, six different universities (GPA 4.0)
    transferring the credits I could in pursuit of medical school. until I was diagnosised with extreme fatigue and difficulty focusing and my vision prescription fluctuated and now periods of depression writer (even though my grammar is ) 🙂 and I’m used to giving advice but just don’t knowhow to apply it to myself. I have been married for 28 years. I have 2 wonderful that mean the world to me. (16 & 29) I love
    watching them as they build their own lives they can certainly be difficult at times, the joy bring is much greater BUT…I am also an average mom who has and still does get occasionally & i had my share of times when raising them I certainly wondered if wrapping duct tape around their heads
    to close off their smart mouths should be added on all voting ballots for consideration as an approved parenting technique! lol 🙂
    Seriously though, I consider them a gift that I was given to teach and to learn from. They have and still do bring much laughter into my life…and these past few years my children & of course their MANY friends are about my only source of
    laughter.brought I have NEVER met anyone that I didn’t learn something from…including children.
    Sorry, know where to start but I guess first off….any ideas on how to recover your self confidence?



  95.  #95RiverGirl on May 29, 2011 at 3:25 am

    Needing a simpler life – Hello 🙂 you sound like a really gutsy and resiliant lady and one who has given a lot of her life to taking care of others. There are some awesome people on this blog and lots of support for you where ever you are at.

    You mention that you have periods of depression. Have you spoken to your doctor about that? It can be so debilitating and medication works if it is appropriate for your situation. I urge you to talk to your doctor and mental health professionals if you haven’t done so. Rori has some awesome tools and ideas about life and relationships, and you will get a lot from them I am sure. It will be so much easier to make the changes you want to make in your life if you can also address any underlying medical condition.

    A good starting point would be Rori’s ebook and you will get a lot of good information by reading through the blog archives.



  96.  #96Needing a Simpler Life on May 29, 2011 at 4:35 am

    Ok, I obviously hit send before I was ready! lol

    Main point….
    4 years ago we made our last move.
    I knew something was wrong but didn’t know what exactly.
    The first year here, I was still doing ok, not great. I knew I was slowly losing my drive for everything but I still managed to squeak out a year of painting, wallpapering, took out a wall etc. But then I began to get physically sick.
    I literally slept for a year and a half. Saw to many doctors to
    count and they either found nothing or each had a different
    diagnosis. occasionally I had tolerable days but still couldnt
    focus on anything.
    Now during this year and a half my husband never believed I was sick.
    This was extremely painful since I had been Mach 1 supermom & superwife for 23 years and now a young woman who couldn’t even stay awake and he doubted that
    something was seriously wrong and that if I wanted I had
    control over this. He became angry that I kept getting pneumonia and every other thing I came in contact with.
    The first 8 months I tried all holistic, but after watching my husband work 10 hours a day, come home & cook, then check on our son, then to bed.
    He was angry anytime our sin had school activities and had to cut back his fishing, hunting and golf in which he had always said rejuvenated him. I knew that hunting rejuvenated and he enjoyed all his other hobbies but the time gone had been reduced to 3 or 4 weeks a year and maybe a weekend every month or two.
    After 8 months of desperation, I walked into a “internists-specialist” office for Lupus & said, if you can give me back my life, I’ll take
    anything!
    Six months later , I woke one morning with a very clear head for some reason. I noticed 17 different bottles of medication beside my bed and I was still sleeping.
    I told my husband how much I loved him and he said he loved me & wanted me well too.
    I ask him to take vacation and take our boys snow skiing.
    I saw my regular GP, discussed what I wanted to do and flew
    my sister (we are fire & water) in
    I had been in my bed so long that I had I had isolated myself from everyone and therefore since this was a new move, had not really had a chance to make any new friends (of course we moved so often I had no real close bonds anyway)
    So, I brought my sister here and I started tapering off every
    single drug (different antibiotics, allergy pills, nausea meds,
    Headache meds, etc.) NEVER DO THIS WITHOUT FIRST CONSULTING YOUR PHYSICIAN
    After 3 months my body had settled down and I now only take 3 medications and have many more good days.
    Yes, I made the doctor rounds and they kept giving me
    different diagnosis’s. After 3 years of researching and paying attention to my body, I have concluded that maybe I should consider the diagnosis systemic Lupus and secondary depression.
    So, now for the last 2 years I’ve been getting stronger everyday. 🙂 I’m not super woman anymore (I quit ironing everything my husband owns) and get still get tired when out in the heat for very long but with a covered top on the boat I can go fishing again, keep my house relatively clean and am active in my children’s lives again. Simply put, I can finally be relied upon again. I get tired about 6ish most days but manage to cook dinner a couple of nights a week and try to cook a lot on weekends to freeze so all he has to do is warm it up but as I’ve gotten better, he’s becoming more distant & angry. He forgot & doesn’t care that I was and still am an intelligent woman. He consults with me on none of his major purchases and refuses to discuss our finances anymore. I am finally realizing 5 years of being told how worthless you are now, his days without speaking to me, his staying gone almost every weekend, no calls on his way home to see if we
    need anything, no calls when he’s gone and the list goes
    on… combined all this with alcohol has me so beat down
    mentally and emotionally that I have no idea now how to get back up much less how I
    accomplished so much for 23 years.
    I have no drive. I’m fearful of every move I make because I can’t take the outburst any longer.
    I’ve also come to realize that these outburst are consistently causing me stress and I am starting to become exhausted more & more. Even when I’m doing the things he said he needs to be happy, his outburst still come.
    So, you may be thinking it’s time for a divorce…
    I dont have the energy to dissect & track 7 years of finances on my own. He cut off all my access to any money.
    I can barely keep any food down which isn’t helping my immune system. I have no family left to go to. I need a friend and my confidence back! Suggestions please…
    Help!
    PS. Sorry I wrote a darn book here.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m far from perfect. In case you didn’t notice, I can sometimes talk to much.
    I have to always have a plan of action in my head
    I make him crazy always reading about human nature, body language and 67-69 camero’s that I will buy to restore one day
    I’m not big on cooking. I cry when my feeling get hurt terribly.
    I become frightened and needy at times now and I can’t stand it.
    I don’t try to converse with him much in the last couple months because he ask me not to but if something is wrong or we have a disagreement, I don’t mind giving him a few days to think it over but after that he won’t talk about it at all. I want to
    discuss it, fix it if possible or compromise then toss it out.
    I would like to go on a date, maybe to a movie once a month.
    I’m sure I have other faults too but my brain has run out of steam.
    I’m going to take a nap ladies.
    Any and all advice would be appreciated. 🙂
    Thank you and again I’m sorry I accidentally sent the book before editing it into a more concise form.
    Have a good day…if it’s not, tomorrow will always be a new day! 🙂



  97.  #97Ella on May 29, 2011 at 5:44 am

    Hmmm,

    Something really stuck in my head about the other night…

    I overheard pub guy talking to one of his friends about me… in fact I just heard a snippet of the conversation.

    He said ‘… she just stands in front of me and doesn’t say anything!’

    It was not said in a complementary way.

    Everyone knows we have something going on and I thin his mate may have been asking how it was going with me…

    So yesterday when I thought about this I felt very sad and low energy, and almost tearful.

    Because I see all the others girls, who are not using RR tools, and they are being entertaining, chatting to the guy, leaning forward.

    And it is so easy for him, and other men to be distracted by these women when I am there leaning back and being a girl.

    It just made me feel sad because I am just being, and it felt like that is not good enough!

    Trigger I guess.

    And then it occured to me…

    This is not really about me so much as it says more about him. Ie: he is out of his comfort zone when a girl leans back, and he is used to letting women row the boat.

    If he does not know how to step up this could be very difficult and it is more his issue than mine.

    By contrast, I was at a wedding reception last night and there was a guy there who really liked me, and there was no such issue because he was totally comfortable leading and stepping up, and it felt good.

    No guessing. He told me what we were doing when. All I had to do was be a girl and get looked after. And that is getting to feel good to me these days.

    Where as that ‘on edge’ excitement of a man who I am not sure about is becoming less appealing.

    Yay.



  98.  #98Needing a Simpler Life on May 29, 2011 at 5:56 am

    River Girl
    Thank you for your kind response.

    Yes, I am currently on medication for the depression (my body has finally agreed to this current combination), vitamin D and E and colic acid daily and
    I also have a counselor that I see a couple times a month.
    She’s about 5 ft tall, went back to school after a nursing degree at 55 and is now 67 years young. She thinks out of the box often and won’t take any crap (excuses) from me if I don’t follow through with something she suggests. lol 🙂
    I’ve tried hypnosis, and a dozen other treatments. and am looking into music therapy & yoga but if I have zero confidence, fear grips me before actually doing what needs to be at least tried. That’s where the friend might come in handy to jump start me.
    Perhaps, I should run an ad in the local paper, “Two friends needed from noon to 5 pm Monday thru Friday to jumpstart motivation and help re- build confidence in a woman who confused compromise with brainwashing for 6 years
    Prefer one has been married at least 10 times (perhaps I can learn from your screw ups) and one who has been married at least 45 years to the same man (perhaps I can learn from your patience) both will be an attempt for me to better understand the male species.
    Must also be a positive, energetic creative thinker (these will be needed to force me through my fear and from my house for daily yoga and tai’chi classes.)
    Must posess the skills to stay awake and at least appear to be listening on days I’m rambling out loud (this is merely a desperate attempt to jog loose a frozen brain.)
    Organization and Cooking skills a plus.” 🙂

    Yes, sometimes this disease seems so so hopeless and my marriage chaos so overwhelming that I use humor just to
    remain sane. 🙂
    Thanks again.
    I’ll try harder to be “CONCISE” and not try posting on a night
    When my mind and body are exhausted but I can’t sleep! 😉
    Ttfn

    I am also considering a few “new age” approaches.



  99.  #99Ella on May 29, 2011 at 5:58 am

    Yay!

    Guy from wedding reception just text me!

    He is yummy.

    Or should I say he makes me feel yummy about myself when I am with him!

    Ummmm.

    🙂



  100.  #100Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 5:59 am

    Wow, thanks Rori and everyone for your responses. First of all Rori, how would I communicate my feelings to Steve without making him wrong as you suggested in your post? Yes Venus, I feel anger, fear and even disappointment because I thought Steve would at least call me more while being away and taking care of his brother. Yet he wants emails from me….Rori I will look into a support group to help me out here, yes I am a care giver and may always be one….it’s all I’ve ever done. Steve is a care giver too and we have that common thread between us. It would be great in older years because physically we would be there for ea other…..that is if he is still around. But, the problem is he has little money…And that means I would be working a lot more years. I am 57 and a very busy massage therapist which if you can imagine is exhausting at times….



  101.  #101Ella on May 29, 2011 at 6:03 am

    Last night I ended up crying in front of wedding reception guy.

    I was feeling sad about so many guys approaching me in a sexual way, with no follow through.

    I cried and then he held me and I cried on him.

    I felt so vulnerable.

    And then I melted on him.

    And that felt like Yum!



  102.  #102Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 6:10 am

    Some members if my family say, “Take care of yourself Jeannette!” and I know I need to.
    Laughing Goddess….thanks for your words… Maybe I should ask Steve what he would do in my place. I don’t have alot of female friends to run with and I get pretty lonely at times. I work hard and want something to look forward to. Maybe I should take up a new hobby, but I want it to be F-U-N!!!!! I need that to balance my life!! I am what others call a deep person and I love to write (have been a member of the Mich. Poet’s Society). Maybe I shoulder write poems about how I am feeling!! I also want to enjoy the out of doors during the summer. My friend helps take care of horses without homes. It’s a small farm north of here where they take care of horses that people had to give up because of the expense. I LOVE horses!! Maybe I can help out!!
    Daria, I LOVE SO MUCH how you asked, “Can you start to imagine that God is the one in charge, not you?” I am scared Daria, I am scared that it’s not going to come together for me and Steve, I don’t want to feel this fear…I need to give it up to God. There is NOTHING I can really control in this life and it’s the ego that tells me I can..I need to meditate on that one. I am not ready to accept any love from another man….I want to wait and see what God wants me to do here. I love Steve and just want to try and make this work. But, perhaps try and be accepting of the fact that God may have something else in mind. I don’t want to feel anger but I do when I think of that. I don’t want to be strong, I just want to feel my womanly emotions and be accepted for them. It’s hard to find people who care and will listen in this world today. Thank you so much my beloved siren friends for being there and for the level of compassion you are able to share…..you are true sirens indeed…..God bless all of you my dear sisters and dear friends…..



  103.  #103Ella on May 29, 2011 at 6:12 am

    Point of interest.

    I have noticed that housemate dude is literally never on his own…

    Now I am choosing not to make a judgement about this…

    However it is making me feel pleased that I have opted out of his rotation of women who are with him…

    There is a different woman here every staying over every night… and sometimes one will leave and within half an hour the next one is here.

    I feel pleased that I have chosen that I want something more for me than to be one of many women who spend time with this man.

    For me it wouldn’t be fulfilling any of my needs!



  104.  #104Ella on May 29, 2011 at 6:24 am

    Re 97,

    Funny how guys don’t really know what they want. Ie a lot of guys seem to think they want a woman to lean forward, row the boat and make all the effort.

    However I do not believe that this really feels fulfilling to them!

    Safe and easy maybe…

    Mr Pubguy is magnetically attracted to me and I don’t chase him.

    And he tries to argue with me and get me to do some rowing, but I just drop the oars!

    And yet he is drawn to me, and he is intrigued by me.

    He said I do his head in and he doesn’t ‘get’ me (this said in a good way).

    Yes Mr Man bc you are dealing with a Siren now and you don’t know how to handle me!

    But that is ok… you can learn, if you want to.

    And I get to practice standing my ground, expressing and being a girl even when it feels uncomfortable and it would be easy to overfunction!

    And I still feel a bit angry and icky when I hear him complaining about me being a girl! And complaining about me CD-ing.

    You just keep complaining Mr bc u do know what to do if you want to take me off the market. All men do really, even if they protest that they don’t and try to make us do the work esp quoting equal rights and using logical arguments…

    And thats ok, they are men.

    But how are you going to argue with my feelings Mr?

    You can’t because they just are!

    Lol… I feel good, playful and alluring being a girl.

    I feel mysterious and powerful.

    I love my mystery and my power.

    I love my vulnerability being a girl.

    I love being taken care of by men. And taking care of me.

    Yay @ me. xoxox



  105.  #105Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 6:29 am

    Sirens, I just got this email from Steve…. “Jeannette,.. glad to see you are getting some time with your family…I have had a rough night. I took wal-flu last night and it helped a little. We got back from Bob Evans, I started coughing again. I am going to rest some more..If I feel I can come out, I’ll call later…..LUV….SJ” Okay, that was his email for the day. He’s been sick with a bad cough and swollen stomach and he was supposed to meet me at my bro.’s house for a barbecue today. My whole family is up. I would be disappointed if he doesn’t show up but there’s not a whole lot I can do. JUST GIVE IT TO GOD……..That is all I can do.



  106.  #106Venus on May 29, 2011 at 6:40 am

    Yay for Jeannette !!!!!!!!!!! Everytime you “give it to God ” its going to be easier. God loves you and so do we!



  107.  #107Ella on May 29, 2011 at 6:42 am

    Jeanette,

    Hugs.

    This situation must feel so tough. Ok so he is sick and as Rori says you can still have feelings despite this, and express them.

    Such as if you feel disappointed or angry.

    You can say this w/o blaming him. You can express anger if it comes up… better that than to stuff.

    I know bc my Step dad was terminally ill and we stood by watching him get sicker and when I was a child I always had to be quiet and good because of it.

    It was a very oppressive atmosphere to grow up in looking back and set some of the destrutcive patterns I later have/had with men. Man pleasing, me second learned behaviours.
    Which have taken a lot of undoing.

    And I learnt this from my mum too. Because no one wants to feel like the ‘bad’ person by complaining when someone is sick. It is always the sick person who comes first and whose feelings get taken care of first.

    I love my mum and I think she did an amazing job of bringing me up, and yet I really beleive things could have been a whole lot easier for us if she had known some Rori tools and been able to express, and take care of her, and my, feelings in that difficult situation we were in.

    Big hugs to you Jeanette.

    xoxoxo



  108.  #108Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Venus thanks SO much for your support girl!!

    Ella, that must have been rough growing up with your step dad’s situation. My mom could never give me a lot either because I had a jealous step dad…Also, my own dad died in a car accident when I was 3. SO I know that has a lot to do with my personality and my wanting to be loved. If Steve doesn’t show up today, I will be hurt, sad and probably angry. This means a lot to me, that is my family being all here. Maybe Steve doesn’t understand that. I don’t want to stuff my feelings and feel guilty all the time. What can I say to him if he doesn’t show up? I know it’s not good to make someone feel guilty when they are sick. And how can I change my feelings so I am not so disappointed and angry? Steve could go out to eat with his brother this morning but can’t come by and see my family who isn’t in town much…Any thoughts any one?



  109.  #109Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Yeah, it’s going to be a rough one if he doesn’t show up……



  110.  #110Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 7:00 am

    92: LOVE this website, Daria. I laugh so hard that I literally have tears rolling down my cheeks.

    Love you,

    ~Lilybelle.



  111.  #111Ella on May 29, 2011 at 7:05 am

    Jeanette,

    No need to try to change your feelings as such… I think Rori says that if we can feel them and sink into them often they will morph and change anway.

    If it were me I would express how I feel to him. It would feel scary to do so and for me I have made a decision now to always honour my feelings no matter how scary it is.

    This is best for me and everyone around me.

    In your situation I might say something like

    ‘I know you are sick and I feel uncomfortable to say however I am feeling anxious about the thought that you may not come to the BBQ later.

    I know you cannot help this situation we are in and sometimes I find it so hard, I feel frustrated.

    It is important to me to have the people I love around me and this BBQ means a lot. It would feel so good to have you there and I feel afraid of feeling disappointed and angry if you are too sick to come.

    I want to feel ok with this whilst respecting your need to take care of yourself.

    What do you think?’

    And then see what he comes up with.

    It may be nothing but at least you have expressed.

    Sometimes I find that I feel better just by expressing and saying it, no matter the outcome that I initially thought was important.

    And I am also thinking it might even be an empowering thing for him as you are asking for his input to find a solution to this problem.

    I imagine sick people must feel a little powerless sometimes. Maybe it could even be a good thing if he can have some power in finding a solution to take care of your feelings as well.

    He gets to be the man.

    I don’t know that is just what I believe I might do in your situation.

    I feel worried about coming across as giving advice…

    What do you think Jeanette?

    xoxoxo



  112.  #112Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 7:26 am

    96: Needing~

    I can relate to the medical nightmare you have been through. It really feels like a nightmare as you are going through it. Knowing something isn’t right and Doctor after doctor. In the last year and a half, I have been poked and prodded, scanned, biopsied and the final straw was the bone marrow biopsy.

    “They” feel I have MS but I REFUSE to submit to that and have weened off all drugs and practice ignorance is bliss.

    I feel scared sharing this.

    I went through a period where I could barely function and am convinced it was the drugs and also, my fear of the worst case scenario, I had given up, in a sense. But once I got off the drugs and gave myself a SERIOUS kick in the behind, I started to feel like me again…not the complete me I was but the me that I am now. I can live with the symptoms I have, I am not in pain it’s just mildly irritating and the fatigue, I “try” to take care to sleep at least eight hours a night and not over do it.

    Ugh, I don’t know what the point of me telling you this is, perhaps so that you know you are not alone and that you CAN get yourself back. It takes dedication and work but it is OH, so worth it.

    ~Lilybelle.



  113.  #113Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 7:27 am

    Ella, I really appreciate your words but I think I am going to just do nothing here and let the God just see me through it somehow. God has a plan and that really is the only one that will work for me….I want to get over feeling anxious about outcomes all the time. I want to get to a place of peace here. I know that sounds passive to some, it just never seemed to work when I made someone feel they had to do this or that to make me happy. I’ll just wait and see how things play out and try not to feel any negative emotions..



  114.  #114Venus on May 29, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Jeannette, feeling messages are the only way to express how you are really feeling without coming off as blamey. They are your feelings, a very important part of you that you shouldnt deny or stuff. When we go to fix it mode or let our masculine energy take over we tend to stuff our feelings and we arent being our authentic self. You can still nurture by leaning back and quietly listening. Going with the flow or giving it to god doesnt mean you are giving up. It only means that you are open to let him do the rowing and you can now enjoy the ride and not be afraid of where its going. I have learnt to enjoy the journey and not worry about the destination.



  115.  #115Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 8:10 am

    I just want to be held and loved and appreciated. I just want my man to look into my eyes and say, “I am here for you.” I want to feel an enormous amount of love from a man….That he is with me and I am with him. To feel that we are each others priority. I am doing my best not be jealous of Steve’s relationship with Rick. They are very close, yet Steve knows Ricks faults and vice versa. Heard about it from both of them. I will work on taking care of myself in the meantime sirens. I want to feel in control, I want to feel balanced, happy, loved, and just looking forward to each new day!



  116.  #116Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Lilybelle…I loved hearing about your shopping trip! It sounded so magical and like I was there 🙂 and melting into the guy’s back while riding the motorcycle…YUM! 🙂

    Elizabeth…so good to see you! 🙂 thank you…and yes I am ready and open for a new direction…I love talking with women…can I get paid for that??? 😉

    I love this post



  117.  #117Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 8:16 am

    116:

    Jilly~ I’m still high from the shopping trip. I just talked to my Bonus Mom and told her when she and Dad are here in a couple weeks, we are going back. She got all excited just listening to me!

    Come with!!!

    <3 you!

    ~Lil.



  118.  #118Daria on May 29, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Rivergirl – here’s the truth. When I read your comment, I was feeling defensive and insecure and unaccepted on the the blog already. I had read two comments about me that I felt misunderstood in.

    Then I read yours and I attributed that your suggestion was meant to change the way I express myself so as to not trigger other people.

    I also felt a bit lost on reading that you noticed sadness, because, I thought I felt comfortable with my sadness.

    I felt a little resentful being told what to do.

    I did feel your compassion and I hope that came across. Thank you for caring about me, and your suggestions to just play with the children felt intriguing.

    I’m feeling a bit on edge here, a little bit scared. I don’t want to have this between us.



  119.  #119Daria on May 29, 2011 at 8:24 am

    The truth is I also felt resentful to be told I’m working so much and I should do something different.

    I felt kinda misunderstood with that, because, I love the ‘work’ I do on Muself and being encouraged to stop doing it, felt bad, kinda like – being made wrong.

    I grow and transform and feel great doing this, i do it for pleasure…

    I kinda felt ‘ungot’ about that



  120.  #120Daria on May 29, 2011 at 8:25 am

    As I keep paying attention to this I’m now getting that what you may have meant is simply that playing with children is a tool to feeling good… And that’s it.

    Which is true and helpful. Thank you.



  121.  #121Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 8:43 am

    FW 45, 46 and 47 felt really good to read…they felt soft and loving and vulnerable 🙂 feels like really loving yourself
    ….and that feels like shimmery soft sparkles … yay 🙂



  122.  #122Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Lil…I would love to come!!! <3 you too! 🙂



  123.  #123Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Camile…hope you had a good night and a bath and going to bed is one of my favorite things to do 🙂 sending you lots of hugs for the next week or so…

    I just saw one of my cousins last night and her husband is going to Afghanistan for a YEAR and they haven’t been married that long…I can’t even imagine that 🙁



  124.  #124Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 9:01 am

    45::

    OM GOSH!! I totally missed this, FW. Thanks, Jilly for pointing this out.. *blush*

    I feel so excited that you bought yourself shoes that you have been desiring!!! I wish I could have been there but I feel so happy to have inspired you.

    It feels so good, doesn’t it?? You go with your rock star self!!

    🙂

    ~Lilybelle.



  125.  #125Laughing Goddess on May 29, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Hi Jilly!

    To answer your question from earlier about how I started working from home….

    I just kind of fell into it. I set the intention and the universe worked the rest out.

    Basically, I do contract graphic design work mostly for a friend of mine. He’s got a thriving business and he funnels parts of projects out to me.

    It’s not necessarily my ideal job in the sense that I would like to do more creative projects, this stuff is kind of technical and eventually I would like to get more of my own clients…or maybe even do something altogether different but this is perfect for now.

    I can see you doing anything you want to do once you set your intentions and are really clear on what you want. And as you know, the universe has infinite ways of lining things up.

    This is exciting! What about being a personal trainer? Would you be into something like that?



  126.  #126Laughing Goddess on May 29, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Jeanette: I feel so melty and yummy and warm reading 102. I feel so excited hearing you talk about the fun things you are going to do for yourself!

    I really feel for you in this situation. You so deserve to he loved and held and to spend time with your man.

    I feel excited to hear how this story unfolds. I feel a sense of anticipation and excitement. I have a feeling things are going to feel better soon.

    Lots of hugs to you!



  127.  #127Laughing Goddess on May 29, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Lillybelle: wow! It feels so cool to read about how you took charge of your health. I had a somewhat similar situation of being diagnosed with an illness and turning it around on my own too. Yum! We are more powerful than we even realize!



  128.  #128Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Laughing Goddess…funny you should say that 🙂 I actually am a personal trainer as well as firefighter…and I have a client coming over at 1 PM today

    I guess I’m wanting more…but I am thanking the universe for this extra income doing what I love…this client that’s coming over today was a client about 3 years ago and last month I got a call “out of the blue” she asked me if I could train her again…I felt really flattered and excited…I don’t advertise…just word of mouth

    I would like to do something with “energy diets or meal plans” maybe online somehow..using nutrition to boost life force energy…usually when people try and lose weight and go on diets they have low energy and it causes them to fail



  129.  #129Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Have the say after reading today the blog feels really light and airy. Really feel like a great family barbecue day.

    Jeannette I am not sure what to say to you today. However, I would encourage you to take your mind off everything else when you are with your family. Just be there with them in the moment.



  130.  #130Rori Raye on May 29, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Jeannette and ALL of us – I’m writing so much, I’m going to make it a quick post…Love, Rori



  131.  #131Jilly on May 29, 2011 at 9:41 am

    LG…thank you for sharing what you do…I love hearing what other women are doing

    I have “ask and it is given” and I have “the vortex” “the law of attraction” and I just went and bought “money, and the law of attraction” and “getting into the vortex” all by Abraham..Jerry and Esther Hicks…

    I go back and forth with all this..but I’m really seeing some correlations and that feels exciting

    Over the last 10 years I have bought books of Byron Katie and Eckhart Tolle and the Kaines and Wayne Dyer and of course Louise Hay and “excuse me, your life is waiting” and so many others

    Rori’s stuff has seemed to bring a lot of it together for me…

    I am drawn into these things…I would love to bring it together with health, diet and fitness somehow…

    just putting it out there universe

    thank you for arranging it 🙂



  132.  #132Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 9:43 am

    RE 130 Rori It is very gallant of you taking into consideration you are on the road trip. Hope you are taking time to enjoy with your friend. I enjoy her writing too.



  133.  #133Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 9:58 am

    127:

    I have a fabulous GP who totally supports my decision to not seek additional diagnosis. I told her just Monday, that I prefer “ignorance is bliss” and she hugged me tight and let me know that I was doing great and looked fantastic! 🙂

    I refuse to listen to well-meaning friends and family about further medication and have learned to ask for help when I need it, without feeling guilty.

    I feel fully supported at work; my boss is wonderful. I gave up some accounts but it really was something that I needed to do anyway…Letting go in that respect was freeing and allowed someone else an opportunity to learn and grow in his career as well. Mentoring has been so much fun!



  134.  #134Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Lilybelle I believe that if I can trust someone else with my health I can trust myself. Congrats to you for believing in yourself.



  135.  #135sunflower on May 29, 2011 at 10:15 am

    i feel myself babystepping into feeling messages…

    i feel my tiny steps..they feel unsure, and i feel selfconcious, and my sentences feel repetitive.

    I feel scaird to speak in feeling messages, and i want to cover some of my feelings with nice words.

    I feel obsessed with finding words that feel soft and sound beautiful, and then i feel lost.

    i feel caught up feeling words more than feeling me. I feel superficial.



  136.  #136luzydel on May 29, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Today I understood men a bit more…

    This guy that is calling me is a total turn off, he said things that are inappropiate, he does not ask anything about me, he talks and talks but doesn’t listen, he seem to be atracted to drama.

    I wanted to tell him I am not interested in pursuing this further, but I felt bad about it, he doesn’t get the hint that I am not attracted or interested, he is just feeling attracted to me that it seems that is what matters. I wonder how many times I’ve done that – how many times I have liked a man so much that I forgotten that he has feeling and opinions also, and that he may not like me as much. This is why men disappear, and as rude and mean as it sounds, it can be also scary to tell someone that I just don’t “feel it”.

    I will say it, regardless of how that makes me feel, I have to live with the truth and even if he is a frog, he still deserve the truth.

    I am also writing to other men, we will see what stories I can write on here. It doesn’t matter if I meet my guy or not, or if they end up dissapointing me; because I will be fine. I learned that while dating myself…:)



  137.  #137tori on May 29, 2011 at 11:06 am

    rori,

    i ordered your book today and i really need some advice. i would have posted this somewhere else…but i didn’t know where. i’ve been holding this in for a few weeks, trying to figure out how to solve this on my own. you’re right…i feel like i’m at the end of my rope and the disaster can’t be undone. please help me!
    after working through some of your exercises this morning, i know this: he’s worth it, i love him, and i am definately ready for the commitment. those are not surprises to me. i’ve only hung in there this long because i knew that already. I just need to know what to do.

    my boyfriend has four kids and he was deeply hurt by his ex-wife who had an affair on him. their divorce has been final for four years. our chemistry was immediate and our relationship was a whirlwind. but i love his kids and him. about a month ago, he started to withdraw from me. it began with him taking sex away. then, gradually he started seeing me less. eventually, i did, apparently what your book says i shouldn’t, and talked to him about it. he told me that he was having some financial difficulties and some “stuff” going on and he just needed some space to adjust, but that it had nothing to do with me. and that he just needed a couple days a week to be alone. i told him i understood that and left it at that. but then, that “space” turned into us not seeing each other at all; he stopped asking me to go to church, inviting me to see his family, his kids, come over, and now, the text messages have begun to dwindle as well. last sunday, i invited myself over again–against the wishes of your book–to discuss the changes–and this time he told me that he has realized that i am the first person he has seen himself with in the future since his ex-wife and that has scared him. he also told me that he still has unresolved feelings for her and that he has to settle those feelings for her before he can give me what he should in the relationship and that all of this is on top of the financial problems he is having. they have foreclosed on his house. he explained to me that he did not want to end the relationship but he just needs time and space. i think that his ex wife has gotten in his head and started playing games with him because she doesn’t want him to be with anyone else (although she’s married and has a baby with the other man). Because this all started happening so suddenly and so weirdly…
    rori, i have not seen this man, whom i am sure i am in love with, in two weeks. on june 15th, we are supposed to take a vacation together with his family and children. and on july 2nd, he and i have a cruise scheduled together for his birthday ( a cruise i planned–also against your book’s wishes). i must sound so stupid right now!
    i think what i am having a hard time with is understanding how to handle the situation, and believing that if he didn’t want to be with me…he would end this. if that is the case, why hasn’t he? what is he doing? what is he thinking? i need to understand so i know what to do? i’m going crazy here. i want to do the right thing because i want to be with him. please help me!!!!!!!



  138.  #138FlowerChild77 on May 29, 2011 at 11:41 am

    tori…I’m kind of new here so I don’t have any advice or suggestions for you, really. But I wanted to welcome you and say that I know the other Sirens will be able to help you sort this out.

    I can relate to the ‘over-functioning’ as I did a lot of this in my last relationship. I guess I thought I was just acting out my enthusiasm. I was afraid to stop rowing the boat.

    What I’m learning from Rori is changing how I look at my whole life–not just my love life/relationships.



  139.  #139Ella on May 29, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Feeling a little bit insecure today.

    I didn’t do so well at moderating my drinking this weekend as I did last…

    I feel quite bad about Fri night bc some stuff happened earlier in the evening that felt a bit icky.

    Pub guy was there and we had been talking and he was quite drunk. He started talking to this oher girl who I know and they looked really flirty together. Then she led him out the pub by the hand…

    I felt horrible seeing that so I sat there feeling my ickyness and sadness. And then a really good looking guy who I don’ know came and started chatting with me. He was lovely.

    He asked me to come outside with him whilst he had a cigarette and I did. After a while he moved in for a kiss and I felt akward and pulled away, mainly bc I am trying to establish a boundary of no kissing unless a guy has actually taken me on a date, and also bc I didn’t know where my pubguy was and felt uncomfortale if he had seen me.

    After a while the guy tried to kiss me again and this is where things feel icky bc I thought I didn’t kiss him, buut my friends told me I did snog him!

    And I just don’t remember at all!

    So I must have been more drunk than I thought.

    🙁

    This feels disturbing to me.

    And later when pub guy and I talked I asked him about that girl and he said she is like a sister to him.

    Don’t know if that is true or not.

    But pub guy didn’t talk to me for a week cus he heard that I might have feelings for housemate.

    So now I feel super insecure about what he will do when he hears about me kissing the other guy.

    Even though I am single, and I am not bound to pub guy… and he still has a girlfriend, BUT I still feel nasty about allowing the other guy to kiss me.

    Trying to be Rockstar about it but tbh I feel really trashy.

    My own behaviour when I drink makes me feel cheap and worthless. I feel judgemental of myself and paranoid about being judged by others.

    I know change is a process but sometimes it feels like I am getting nowhere! I feel frustrated and impatient with myself.

    And annoyed and disgusted with myself.

    And worried about that maybe I have f8cked things up with pub guy..

    But then I ask myself is there actually anything real to f8ck up anyway?

    And if he had been stepping up and treating me well, and focusing on me then I would not have been distracted by the other guy.

    Hmmm, I don’t know, just really like him and feeling anxious and insecure over the whole thing.

    Which come to think of it is not how we are supposed to feel with a man at all!

    Maybe I need to realise that atm pub guy is not great for me. I would say difficult bordering on toxic.

    But I feel so drawn to him and the idea that we could have something…



  140.  #140Ella on May 29, 2011 at 11:45 am

    It just feels so hard as recently he has been more step up than ever before… and so loving too, and it has felt exciting and like a dream being realised…

    But in truth it is still not enough.. and there are still too many icky/bad feeling times with him.

    Think I need to review Toxic men.

    I feel paranoid and insecure for kissing the other guy and like if it doesn’t work with pub guy now it could be my fault!



  141.  #141Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 11:52 am

    RE 137 Tori you don’t sound stupid. You sound like someone who desperately wants her relationship to work out, plus it seems you have some financial investment that you don’t want to go down the drain. It seems though that you reaching out to him does not bring him any closer. Is that correct?



  142.  #142Ella on May 29, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Also feel sad/disgusted and annoyed with myself for not keeping to my no kissing w/o a date boundary…

    I think maybe it would be good for me to be a bit gentler with myself and rather than beating myself up perhaps work on a script for when I am in that situation with a guy again, so that I can easily express my boundary!

    That might feel more productive.

    And also to get back on track with moderating my drinking.

    Feel sad 🙁

    Trying so hard and still getting it all wrong!



  143.  #143Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 11:56 am

    RE Hugs Ella. Not all wrong, at least you are noticing your behavior and your feelings. Remember it is babystep by babystep. Take care of yourself.



  144.  #144Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    142:

    Ella, You are such a smart Siren. Exactly! Be gentle with yourself, and remember that every day is a new day to take another babystep.

    It is, after all, babystep by babystep until we finally get to where we desire to be. There is no wrong way to grow, there just is growing.

    I applaude you.

    ~Lilybelle.



  145.  #145Ella on May 29, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Thanks FW & Lilybelle.

    And I have a feeling that kissing other guys in itself is not an issue at all… I mean pub guy has not stepped up and offered me anything to take me off the market…

    Its more the circumstances in which the kissing happened that feel bad to me.

    And I do still struggle with this aspect of CD-ing.

    But I had a really good night Sat night, so that kinda makes up for it. It was a whole new setting with new people and new men 😉



  146.  #146FlowerChild77 on May 29, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    (((((Ella))))) If anyone knows about this, I do. We cannot depend on people whose lives revolve around alcohol. (I’m NOT talking about having some wine with dinner or the occasional cocktail.)

    As far as wondering what mr. pubguy thinks of you—you’re looking for your own reflection in a cracked mirror. And you’re right in your assumption that there really isn’t anything to mess up. I suspect that he has his own agenda and is only thinking of ‘what’s in it for him.’

    I’m concerned about the blackout–‘not remembering’ what you did while drinking. I may get some flack for this, but I feel protective of you. I have children your age and it breaks my heart to see you heading down this road. I think your comments not so long ago about not drinking tell you that deep inside you know it’s a problem <3

    YAY for you about your housemate!! 🙂 Yay for knowing that you absolutely don't want to be "one of many" and noticing that he can't stand to be alone with his own thoughts. He sounds like he needs constant attention–and wouldn't that be exhausting for whoever he ends up with?

    I care about you…



  147.  #147Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    RE 145 Is it telling you something about yourself? Maybe what might not be working for you? Or is it your fear because of the state that you were in? I know what the practice here is but I would look at it in light of the context.



  148.  #148Ella on May 29, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Flowerchild,

    Thanks for your concern.

    Yes it is a problem (my drinking) and I am just in the process of figuring out how to address it and what can work for me to heal this part of my life.

    I feel very concerned about the black out too, and the worst thing is that I didn’t even think I had drunk that much!! Yes I feel very worried when I think about this.

    I remember being there and him trying to kiss me a number of times and me kinda pulling away and saying ‘not here’ but I don’t remember actually kissing him…

    But my good friend tells me that I did!



  149.  #149Ella on May 29, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    FW re 147,

    I am not sure IU understand what you mean?

    xoxox



  150.  #150Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    ELLA I was referring to the kissing of the new guy. Is it that you might not be comfortable kissing someone you just met or was it something about him that left you feeling uncertain? Or is it because you felt you might have drunk too much you might be fearing how it could have turned out with someone else? Just some thoughts to help get you thinking…



  151.  #151Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    RE 148 Ella what I feel good about here is that you had someone with you who you consider a friend. Maybe you could engage her to help you look out for yourself? Would you mind her telling you that you might have had too much in the future?



  152.  #152Ella on May 29, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Feminine woman…

    All of the above really.

    And also that Mr Pubguy might see me… But mainly about kissing someone I just met and what impression that gives more than anything.

    And that it probably wouldn’t happen if I hadn’t been drinking.

    xoxoxox



  153.  #153Ella on May 29, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    FW re 151,

    Maybe… however I really want to get to a stage where I am responsible for myself and moderate my drinking enough that I can honour my boundaries and behave in a way I feel good about.

    xoxox



  154.  #154Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    RE 153 Okay but in the meantime I believe it is okay to ask for help just in case. It might create another dynamic in your brain. Being in the environment alone IMHO could cause you to talk yourself out of your boundaries. I just talked myself out of one and ate two not one two chocolate bars. They were close at hand.

    RE 152 I feel a bit of concern about “what impression that gives”. I might be reading it wrong but I see in it a suggestion of wanting some kind of external approval or validation?



  155.  #155Pippa on May 29, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Daria @ 78 – I did not realize my anger was coming through. Do you mean here? Or to him? He certainly knows he has said things that I found were not respectful / but I mentioned those in a feeling message and not in an accusatory way. He actually apologized and said he was too harsh and did it to protect himself. However he continues to do it. He still feels that I am not talking to him and telling him what I want.

    And here is the things – if I know he doesn’t want a ‘relationship’ then why should I admit to wanting one? Why not just say ok – thanks for letting me know – good luck. I really don’t know what the point of opening that up to him is – other than maybe humiliating me?

    Rori – thank you. The fact that you called him an oaf is pretty telling. Of course you are all hearing it from my side – but his actions are still what they are.



  156.  #156Ella on May 29, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    FW re 154,

    Yes my self esteem is still all tied in with outside approval. I’d love to say it isn’t and I’m just not there yet.

    Sometimes less than others but yes I do want the approval of my peers, although I feel happier, and things flow more easily when I do not care about what others think…

    I’ll keep babystepping.

    xoxox



  157.  #157Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    RE 156 Okay Ella understood. I guess as long as you are aware that is what is most important because then you can address it.



  158.  #158Ella on May 29, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Pippa re 155,

    Its about being open and authentic with all men, that is why you speak your truth (ie: you want a relationship, if that is what you want).

    This is how we draw men in towards us, by opening our hearts.

    If you have a read around the old posts on this blog you will learn a lot.

    xoxox



  159.  #159Ella on May 29, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    FW – I’m not really too sure how to separate my feelings of self esteem completely from how others treat me, and esp men.

    Except to keep building up my own self esteem which I am doing. And it goes in peaks and troughs.

    The slip ups that feel bad like Friday pull it back down, as do break ups and toxic men so it is all tied in.

    I am realising just how much damage to my self esteem and faith in a relationships the break up with my ex acually did, but there is no point in going over the past!

    And the good thing is it brought me here!

    xoxoxo



  160.  #160tori on May 29, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Flowerchild, thank you for your encouragement. i need help so much.

    Feminewoman, i may not sound stupid, but sometimes i feel so stupid. you are correct though. i do want this to work very badly. and i feel like there is more distance everyday; except for text messages. though they have dwindled, he never fails to text me. i hear from him every single day. it’s like he is keeping me i his life somewhere and it’s so harsh because i miss him so much.



  161.  #161pippa on May 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Ella – nice to hear from you. I hear what you are saying – I am just not sure that that will help the situation. I remember Rori saying the following (when I first found you awesome women) – the person I had been seeing suddenly decided to stop seeing me after about 6 weeks. I seem to remember her telling me that I should just have said – ok – thanks for letting me know – and walking away.

    Or are you saying something different because he is seemingly asking me what I want?

    He wants me to be there to help him with everything. He is impressed by what I can do – what I can get done for him. He once said to me that he feels that he could mention anything he wants to do or know and not only could I get in done in three phone calls – there are people I can call who know how to call other people who are happy to hear from me.

    I think Rori is right — oaf.



  162.  #162pippa on May 29, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    The other thing that I realize is that I never ever felt relaxed around him. I never felt it was ok to be me. So it turns out that I never really was. Which is too bad – because it means he never knew the real me. It makes me want to try and have a friendship with him so he can see the real person I am – but I don’t think I can handle watching him hit on other women in front of me. I hope that does not make me selfish.



  163.  #163Ella on May 29, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Hi Pippa,

    If walking away feels like the best option then that sounds good.

    I was just talking more in general about how we are learning to interact with men.

    Btw Rori recommends not being friends if you have romantic feelings.

    Do you have Rori’s e-book or any of her programmes? Have you read around the old post on this blog yet?

    You will find a lot of useful info here.

    And also being selfish is good… well for me anyway taking care of me is good for myself, the people around me and my relationships.

    xoxoxo



  164.  #164Ella on May 29, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Hmmm, realising I am feeling a little clingy and needy tonight. Has a lot to do with being tired.

    Once I have a good night’s sleep my vibe will shift again tomorrow.

    Meeting this guy at the weddoing reception last night and us hanging out, it was he weirdest thing because he kinda challenged me about something and I stood my ground in my Siren way and then it was just like a good vibe.

    And as we were talking I still made a couple of mistakes. For example we were joking and he was saying how my boss loves him and then I was saying how my boss loves me bc I earn her lots of money, and then I said the silliest thing… it just kinda slipped out and I said ‘would you love me?’ and I kinda meant if he were my boss and I was making him lots of money, but it just sounds so weird!

    Like I want something from him or I am really needy.

    He said ‘no not yet’ whilst cuddling me. So I guess its ok… but I just really didn’t mean to say that and of course I know you can’t love someone from meeting them once…

    But ICK!!!

    Arghh, why do I do these things?

    Silly billy.

    Well he has been iin touch since so I guess its ok and maybe I am blowing it up cus I am tired.

    I do feel a lil annoyed at myself about it though.

    Also before I left he asked to see me again and I said ok when was he thinking of and he said tonight. And usually men have to book me but I happened to be free so I said ok.

    And then I regretted it cus I thought I am making it all too easy. Arghhhhh again!

    Still these are small things which can be corrected with a big dose of the correct vibe and behaviours.

    I hope that there was enough good/feminine vibe all night before to make up for my silly faux pas…

    I seem to get quite down on myself when I am feeling tired. And then for some reason I don’t want to go to sleep, even though I know that will fix the problem.

    Oh scr8w it I love me and my insecurities and my inappropriate comments and everything! And you know what maybe it was kinda cute!

    Anyway F8ck it. I can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy. Just wish I felt more faith in that! I feel nervous about scr8wing things up a lot…

    NVs I expect!

    So much good practice still to do and I am loving it.

    So much still to improve.

    Love you Ella. xoxox



  165.  #165pippa on May 29, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Does anyone ever get tired of trying? Or is it just me? I feel like even though I am doing things differently I keep ending up in the same place.

    Not being friends with people we have feelings for? So then how do we turn things around?



  166.  #166Ella on May 29, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Hmm, but you know what, he has to impress me!! So F8ck it!

    Focus on me Ella, its all good.

    xoxoxo



  167.  #167pippa on May 29, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Ella is awesome btw — 🙂



  168.  #168Ella on May 29, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Pippa yes I see Sirens frequently get tired and frustrated at times when they don’t see the progress they would like, including me often!

    But it passes and vibe shifts.

    Rori actually encourages us to try less! And save our energy for us.

    A lot is explained in her writing.

    xoxoxo



  169.  #169Ella on May 29, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Pippa re 167 Awww, thanks 🙂



  170.  #170pippa on May 29, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    I have been reading a lot – and feel like I understand it. But something isn’t connecting. I could just be tired and not feeling my best because my heart has been hurt.

    I will keep trying. Someone is out there who will love me for me. Faults and all. I am crying my eyes out as I write this. And as I am writing this my phone is ringing and it’s him.



  171.  #171Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    No, Pippa…I don’t ever get tired of trying. I guess I don’t look at it that way; I look at it as learning and growth and as I grow, I notice that I started making better choices, have set firm boundaries (this is way new for me), and become more and more sure of myself each day.

    No, not tired, I view it as exciting and it shows up in my vibe. That is not to say that we don’t have off days. The NV’s can sneak it and tell me complete untruths, but it is getting easier to send them packing and back to the corner where they belong.

    I truly believe this is a process, a daily mind set. It’s growth and liberating as well. And it starts proving itself with the interactions that I have with men, hell, with all people really.

    It has to be about how you feel about anything at any given time and finally affirming for yourself that you deserve way more than accepting crumbs and then doing the work to get there.

    Stick close here. There is so much here to help.

    ~Lilybelle.



  172.  #172Lilybelle on May 29, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    170:

    Allow those tears to flow, Pippa. They are healing and cleansing. And, in my opinion, the first place to start. They’ll be back and you welcome them and allow them and know that each time you have a good cry, you ae healing.

    Warm Hugs,

    ~Lilybelle.



  173.  #173Tulip on May 29, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    (((((Pippa))))
    My ex uesed to reproach me by saying I hadn’t made things happen. By that I think I he meant I hadn’t sorted it that he could live in my house, which would have been cheaper and all his plans would have been possible then…
    It took me a long time to learn that he really couldn’t give me what I wanted anyway. He blamed me for all th things wrong in the relationship and in his life.
    He ended it eventually but I let him walk away this time whereas in the past I would have clung on.

    I’m not well now and I feel sure that it’s due the anxiety, walkng on eggshells, trying to please him, feeling uncomfortable and not good enough. I have pain in my left ovary to remind me that I am the prize – not him or anyother man, now I have to hope it’s not serious as I have children and I want to see them grow up and feel so much anger and resentment that I had my priorities so wrong.

    I feel teary and sad reading your story and Kaitlin’s too because i recognise the the scenario and the pain that these hoop jumping relationships mean,

    Stay here Pippa and you will find a way through.



  174.  #174pippa on May 29, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    I started to write about what happened in his past – and then erased it. It does not matter what happened in his past – my past my present my future matters. Nothing more nothing less. He is calling because he needs my help not because he misses me or our friendship or wants a deeper connection with me. He does not leave messages. I assume he knows that I will have seen he has called – which will be enough for me to call him back. I am not going to do that. He does not deserve me or my generosity or huge heart.

    As much as I can say these things – it still hurts.



  175.  #175pippa on May 29, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Ok maybe that is the wrong way to look at it.

    I deserve to be happy
    I deserve to be loved and appreciated for the warm kind generous sexy person that I am.
    I will give that back in kind to the person who shows me they are genuine.



  176.  #176Boomer on May 29, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Quiet night in–kids are all away. I am eating pizza and watching romantic comedies.

    The BoyScout date was nice. No sparks or fireworks or huge emotional revelations. Just nice. We had a nice economical date –movie with movie passes he had for free, Mexican food (I ate light), and then dinner at my place (he paid for the food and did most of the cooking). He also did some boy things for me–helped me assemble the new grill and a table for my deck and hung a shelf. That was helpful and I expressed my sincere appreciation. As I said…it was nice.He was not as effusive with his compliments and attention this time, but I am OK with that too. The next step is his. I am happily just being me.

    Another man has asked me to meet him tonight for the first time–this was Friday he asked via text message–I normally would say no on such short notice (and you all know I don’t feel good about text requests), but I was like, “Sure, sounds fun. But I’d feel better about the plan if we’d talk about it.” He said, “I thought we were talking.” Sigh. So I said, “In person, silly ;)” And he texted that he’d call.

    And….he did not.

    It feels really good to not feel hurt or bummed. It feels really good to be able to sigh gently and kind of laugh at this situation…and not be at all upset about it.

    It feels good to have a night to myself. I’m going to watch another movie, and then maybe crack open my Rosetta Stone Italian course for a preview. And then get a really sound night’s sleep.

    Good night, Sirens 🙂



  177.  #177Jeannette on May 29, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Just an update sirens…..Steve stopped by at the family barbecue. I called him and said it would be nice to see him. Then this big tornado warning shot into the area after an hour or two and he ran out the door to go back and be with his brother…..but, he did show up….that’s all I have for now.



  178.  #178gina on May 29, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Just had a strange meal with the family…
    my mom said that a family friend has been diagnosed with a form of autism. I mentioned that I keep hearing of a link between vaccines and autism. my brother snapped “that’s the stupidest thing you could ever say. never say that again.” and I stood up for myself by clarifying that I don’t have a definite opinion but I do feel concerned and I feel skeptical of “experts”, and I don’t appreciate him just poo pooing on what I say. He continued to poo poo, and I said “can you speak to me with a little more respect?” and eventually I said “you know, just a little feedback: If you have access to information that the rest of us may not know, because you are in the scientific community, you can share that in a way that people can hear, rather than be a jerk about it.” Tears were burning behind my eyes and then they started coming out and I didn’t want to cry at this family dinner, and I felt humiliated and bad. And for some reason, I started to feel so lonely and sad, and I associated those feelings with D – a pining away for him. but I guess not him, maybe, just a longing to feel loved and respected. I feel trigerred around my family. I love my family. I love my brother, and i forgive him. But ugh that didn’t feel good. and then I went to the bathroom and tried to get some of the crying out, but it was like a floodgate had been open, and the stream has just been consistent ever since.
    What is this all about? I guess it doesn’t matter. I just feel sad and lonely, and anxious and desperate, and sorry. I feel love for myself. I got beautiful today and took myself to church and went shopping for healthy food. And I’ve done other nice things for myself lately. I wish I didn’t long for romance and sex so much… I MISS D! I MISS HIM AND I FEEL SO SAD AND DESPERATE ABOUT IT. I never did respond to his last pathetic text 2 weeks ago. And I know I don’t want to speak with him until he approaches me in a way that feels good. I’ve become aware of how I didn’t treat him nicely at the end of our relationship. And I see how he was trigerred by his move, and extra trigerred by me. And I believe he is totally out of sync with himself and that he loves me and wants to be with me and that it’s fear that holds him back. and it’s pain – he’s never been confident about my love cause he looks to me to constantly shower him with love and affection. And I ended up pushing him away because I hated the burden of that. But I know that, at heart, we love eachother. And he’s gone, so who cares. but this just feels like torture. Why does this silence feel so painful? I feel desperate and and like just crying like a baby. I am crying like a baby. I don’t even know why. I just feel completely upset and sad and sobbing. Many times during the day, I felt in the “vortex” – i made eye contact with men. I’ve been circular dating by salsa dancing and flirting and all that, but no actual dates lately. Okay, so I’m acting like it’s such a mystery that I feel stuck, but I guess I haven’t taken initiative to make dates happen. But I would like to pat myself on the back for all the ways I’ve been dating myself…and I’m pleased that I’ve been more present and authentic. Less overfunctiony. Was tonight a step back? what could I have done with my rude brother that would have felt better for me? His girlfriend looked pained in general – like he’s been letting her down. maybe their energy somehow zapped me in a way…



  179.  #179Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Jeannette good for you.



  180.  #180Rosa on May 29, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Ella 104

    “Funny how guys don’t really know what they want. Ie a lot of guys seem to think they want a woman to lean forward, row the boat and make all the effort. ”

    And funny how we dont know either and sometimes we want a touchy, feelly , emotionally sensitive , understanding guy ..sort of like US ..and then find no one is rowing and he’s kind of too GIRLY and then YIK..
    Funny how that works!

    And Ella I was so glad you leaned back and away from house mate man last week . How revolting would it feel to be one of his huge stable ??



  181.  #181Rosa on May 29, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Gina I am sorry you feel so sad.
    I wonder if it might help you to read baggage reclaim site where unavailabilty is the theme .

    Apparently we all do similar re unavailable men, ie want desperately to be “the one” who heals and delivers him of his “fear” . And apparently we all “know” he really “loves ” us deep down and that there are really “good” reasons why he just doesnt come to us…

    And how apparently its all predictable and actually we all do it the same. (I sure did have these identical beliefs that you express about my man)

    The shocking and unpleasant truth is that IF he wanted us he WOULD claim us. That felt so hard for me to accept . But once I did and I gave up on the belief that the “love” I just “knew” he felt for me would ‘win out” and just accepted that he was a man who didnt want me and further more would have made me UNHAPPY in the end , well then I started to heal.

    That website helped me immensely to let go of my beliefs that were just damaging me. I soon stopped crying over him after literally years of tears.



  182.  #182grace on May 30, 2011 at 12:30 am

    can i ask something?…if i can subscribe ur website then,there is a payment happened?…..



  183.  #183Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:47 am

    OMG – so excited!

    CD practice:

    I am talking to this guy who is going to be free to see me in a week, and he says he cant wait

    its been feeling boring to talk to him, when he starts talking about, uhm, “i used all my money,” or “i feel bored” etc.

    and i decided to take a chance like Rori says and practice with this guy im not invested in and say stuff like “i feel bored”

    and i DO feel attracted to this guy

    SO I SAID:

    “i feel bored” so then he didnt get it was cuz of what he was saying, which is ok, cuz it doesn’t matter

    but later he asked me to tell me what i think about him

    i said “i feel turned on talking to you sometimes.” “and sometimes i feel bored and irritated”

    so he’s like bored and irritated, no one’s ever said they feel that way talking to me. why?

    and i say, “i don’t know”

    he says, “im gonna have to work harder then to make sure you don’t feel that way. what can i do?”

    so i say “well, i feel high maintenance, i like a lot of attention on me.”

    he says ok i see, you are high maintenance huh. i will try to give you more attention

    and then later he said something about how he’s running out of money so i say “i don’t want to hear that” he’s like “no im not saying that to try to insinuate that you should give me money…”

    “i say, i know, it feels irritating though, i don’t want to hear that, or how someone is feeling bored”

    he says, “but that’s the truth”

    i say “yeah, i dont want to hear that though”

    he says ok.

    so after that, the converastion got BETTER!!!

    and i felt safer and closer to him!

    OMG!

    so later he tells me im sweet and he loves talking to me. wow!!!



  184.  #184Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:49 am

    he said i was sweet after i told him

    “well i havent been feeling bored or irritated, its felt good talking to you” i said this to appreciate the effort he was making

    and he said he got a big smile on his face

    and i felt self conscious and told him i feel like i dont believe him!

    and he says its true!

    wow

    im feeling awed that i told the truth and it brought us closer!



  185.  #185Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:50 am

    grace – no, you only pay if you are purchasing something, and you’d have to enter your credit card information to do that

    this blog is free to comment on, and Rori’s e-letters are wonderful and they are also free



  186.  #186Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:58 am

    Gina – oh i feel SO EXCITED to hear about your crying!

    this is GREAT GREAT GREAT babes!!!

    this means your heartbreak is healing!! that’s just what happened to me when i finally allowed myself to cry and i healed from heartbreak with guywho

    this is wonderful!!

    as far as your brother, i’m feeling glad that you stood up for yourself! yeah!!

    and there are different words to use, so that the experience can feel better and you can invite connection

    feeling messages and dont wants

    here’s my attempt:

    “this feels really bad. i feel super passionate about this topic and appreciate your talking about it with me, i would feel good to learn from you what you know… and right now i feel defensive and upset… i’m feeling sad! I don’t want to argue with you, it would feel so much better to feel good and close again… i love you! what do you think?



  187.  #187Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:03 am

    re baggage reclaim beliefs

    i dont feel good thinking he doesn’t want me

    i feel better thinking all men want me, but there is something (like timing, their maturity, their emotional capacity, a better man for me in the destiny-plan) that is keeping him from me

    doesn’t matter what it is, he’s not showing up

    and the best way for me TO heal him, AND I BELIEVE I CAN! – is by doing what feels good to me, and saying NO to him

    saying NO to him and my strong boundaries ARE what heals him!!

    the not having me available without offering me worship ARE what heals him!

    yay this feels really good to me



  188.  #188Rosa on May 30, 2011 at 2:08 am

    Personally I dont choose to believe it is my duty to heal
    anyone . A mans feelings and incapabilities are his and I feel excellent and powerful when I let him fix himself 🙂 I feel delighted and a real inner lightening when I am freed from doing ANYTHING about his feelings .

    My chariot awaits , CD collecting me for Italian dinner.



  189.  #189flower on May 30, 2011 at 3:46 am

    just got copy of the Rori’s toxic man.
    I acknowledged that I have a lot of flipping going on , kinda like that last woman, and noticed that i even have this flipping in one moment i can be all ‘im best’ and ‘im not enough’ in the same second , yes this down to childhood , heart wants to be loved and hurt at the same time and guy who would do that is in a way the comfort zone to me of feeling as it should feel , but its tiring , exciting yes , thats why normal guys r boring

    how do u fix this flipping ?



  190.  #190Rosa on May 30, 2011 at 4:42 am

    Home after yummy dinner (after work catch up , no lingering ) . He mentioned to me that he had told a friend (who I knew slightly many years ago ) that he was “seeing someone” .

    So it seems this man sees himself as ” seeing” me , whatever that means ! He has already booked up two dates ahead . There is no discussion of intent or exclusivity or any other such. One of my other cd’s is overseas for work for a few weeks . I have one to meet next week and another phoning and one or two more in the woodwork.

    I feel quite exhausted keeping up with work , my sons , my mother and my cd’s and still tired after last surgery with 3 more medical appointments and another short hospitalisation this week .

    None the less I feel good about me. And the sad feelings and waking crying at night seems to have gone for now.



  191.  #191Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 5:42 am

    Rosa your posts feels exciting to read. It is great to see a fellow sister taking such good care of herself even in spite of physical challenges.



  192.  #192Rosa on May 30, 2011 at 6:04 am

    Thank you FW !

    I feel happy with my dating progress lately but I am also feeling sad about the instant menopause and feeling concerned too that i have “lost” the sexy me.

    I feel scared that when one of them makes a move on me I will be too inhibited to get more physical . i feel amazed that i am even thinking that way! I was always a very very sexy easily ignited and multiple fireworks kind of girl.

    Since the shock and pain over G-man and then the way he came onto me straight after the surgery ,cancer etc for his own gratification ,then disappeared , and then the hormonal mayhem , sweats , sleeplessness , pain and more surgery I feel like I have lost touch with my sexual self. I dont know how to be sexually relaxed anymore . I dont know how to find the old me any more. I dont know how to FLIRT any more . My mind just shuts me down.

    It feels very frightening to me as I fear turning a good man right OFF with my damaged body or my lost sexiness.

    I fear misjudging a man again and being used again by a selfish bad man. I fear that I will lose my opportunities for love due to this. I am certain I am projecting all these fears onto the men instead of flirting and enjoying them sexually. They seem to be universally not coming on to me.

    I hoped the dating would “fix” me.
    Its not working so far.



  193.  #193Mel on May 30, 2011 at 6:08 am

    I don’t know what’s going to happen. I can do nothing more. I think I’ve realized that there’s just NOTHING I can change. If he wants to look at porn, he’ll do it. If he wants to fantasize about dating local women, or wants to ACTUALLY date local women, he’ll do it. If he wants to socialize one-on-one with (girl) friends, then he’ll do that too.

    At this point, he has decided to consider marriage counseling. This is a must for me. If he can’t commit to doing that, than he can’t commit to me. I’m leaving it up to him to schedule the appointment.

    What I’m wrestling with right now is figuring out what I can and cannot compromise on.

    Porn, for example. Maybe I could be okay with it under certain circumstances. But any “live chat” with women, or using it as a way to escape problems and avoid intimacy… that just feels bad to me. I don’t think I could continue to live this way.

    Dating sites… This I don’t think I could compromise on AT ALL! This seems just too real to me. A married man that is fantasizing about dating and NSA sex is likely on the path to doing just that. If it WERE really about fantasy, why does his profile have our city as his current location? Why would he not say he was living in a fake place? It’s too easy to take these fantasies into real life. This, for sure, I can’t accept in marriage.

    As for (girl) friends… I could maybe compromise as long as he was completely honest whenever he did so. If there was always full disclosure and I didn’t feel like he was withholding information. I could work on my jealousy and deal with this.

    If he does decide to go to counseling, I need to find a way to express these boundaries. I’m feeling like these things are deal breakers. While I’ve realized I can’t stop him from doing anything he wants to do, I can choose whether or not this is the type of marriage I’m comfortable with.



  194.  #194Mel on May 30, 2011 at 6:12 am

    Hugs Rosa! You may find a sense of freedom in your new self. You are strong. You seem to be doing great!



  195.  #195Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:15 am

    “And then there is my personal favorite verse-”Wear your hair just for him, do the things he likes to do, la la la OMG!!!! Wear you hair for yourself! Do the things YOU like to do! To thine own self be true lest you can not be false to any man! I love that bit of wisdom.”

    Just read this from a previous post and thought I’d post it here. I see it as one of those beliefs imprinted on our subconscious that needs to be unraveled.



  196.  #196Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:18 am

    RE 193 Mel that really sounds like you taking your power back. Do you know what he might want to get out of the counselling? Or was it a requirement in order to keep the marriage together?



  197.  #197Mel on May 30, 2011 at 6:23 am

    I love my mom!

    I finally broke my silence and had a heart-to heart with her yesterday. I really needed some support!

    I told her that _____ is not a bad person, and I really want to work things out, but that I might need to come back home if things don’t change.

    She said she has her fingers crossed for me, but that I am always welcome to stay with her if I need to. She said I have a lot going for me and that she knows that I can bounce back.

    I hope it doesn’t come to this, but I feel a certain peace in knowing that I am loved and cared about.



  198.  #198Jeannette on May 30, 2011 at 6:29 am

    Good morning sirens. I am trying to connect with a cancer support chat room for friends and family. SO far no one is responding. I emailed Steve to see if he and his brother would like to go for a summer drive today in the country. I’ll see if they’re up to it. I felt sadness yesterday because I don’t think Steve was planning to come to my brother’s house. Why? Because when I talked him into it he said he had to wash some clothes first. So he came for about an hour and a half then this big storm blew in and he said he had to get back to his brother. I need to understand this. I am just feeling like all his attention is turning to his brother and he doesn’t have any to spare for me. I know Steve doesn’t feel great either. I just don’t know what to say sometimes because I don’t know where his head is..Maybe he doesn’t even know.



  199.  #199Mel on May 30, 2011 at 6:29 am

    FW:

    It was a requirement. I just don’t see how anything will get any better without professional help.

    He says he’ll be willing to go once to see if he thinks it will “work for him.” I don’t think he knows what to expect, or what goes on during counseling and wants to test it out. I hope he’ll commit to more than that, but that’s his choice.

    He also said he might want to go talk to someone on his own… which is also a good thing. Maybe he will be able to figure out what he really wants and talk about this “midlife crisis” he’s having with someone who can help.



  200.  #200Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:32 am

    Rosa 192 reminds me of the halt concept. I remember your past comments about GMan and I do believe you have not forgotten. It is the fear that might be holding you back. I am wondering if you have tried tapping at susanquinn.net to help. I find it profoundly healing.



  201.  #201Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 6:35 am

    197:

    Mel~ I feel happy to hear that you have the support you need from your Mom. Can’t put a price on that.

    ~Lilybelle.



  202.  #202Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:36 am

    RE 199 Mel I believe it would be great if he chooses to rather that him going as obligation because it is a requirement from you. Just my thoughts/opinion. For me that would be commitment on his part as in the going alone, just that I wonder how you would know he went. Can I caution you from building up expectations around the counselling? That way I b elieve you will not put out any vibe that he might feel and possibly complain about as feeling pressured.



  203.  #203Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:40 am

    RE 197 “She said I have a lot going for me and that she knows that I can bounce back.” I love this and would encourage you to look for this in your life. I would only caution you to avoid beating up on him with her because guys experience this as disrespectful if you discuss problems related to them with family while not addressing it with them who is intimately involved with the problem.

    I feel happy that she is providing the support and love you will need at this time so that you know you are not alone though. That can be so comforting.



  204.  #204Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 6:44 am

    Mel~ I would also encourage you to be very clear on your boundaries here.

    I wish I had done that with an earlier relationship; would have saved me a ton of heartache and pain.



  205.  #205Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Jeannette I have to admit I felt a certain amount of disconcerting feelings around him advising his health care providers that you are the one who would take care of him after the transplant. I am wondering if there is anyone else who could do that? I am also wondering if that is the only purpose in his mind he see you as fulfilling in his life? Sorry if this sounds unsettling but that was what happened for me when I read your comments.



  206.  #206Mel on May 30, 2011 at 6:51 am

    I told her that i didn’t want her to judge him because he’s not a bad person. She said she hopes things will work out for us and will welcome him as her son-in-law if that’s what he chooses to be.

    He’s had no problem trashing me to his friends. To the point where I’m not sure we could ever really do anything as a couple with them again. Believe me, I understand how trashing your spouse to other people is not the best of ideas if you honestly want to work things out.

    I don’t want to force him to go to counseling. I’m leaving it up to him. I just don’t know if our marriage has a chance without it. I don’t want it to be an ultimatum, but those are the facts. I don’t want to sit around for months and months, being miserable with things just staying status quo. It’s affecting my health and it’s not good for me.

    I don’t really have any expectations around the counseling. Just to see if we this marriage is worth saving, I guess. That’s why I’ve been really thinking about my boundaries and what I can compromise on.



  207.  #207Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:52 am

    Lilybelle/Mel I wish I was clear on all my boundaries but I have come to accept that sometimes it is only as we face situations that we understand ourselves more and become clear on our boundaries. So I try to be gentle with myself. I am also willing to apologize if I might have misguided them about my boundary or was not clear initially. Having said that Mel, I would not go back and forth from the marital home to the family home. I have decided that watching a friend bounce back and forth and her husband continually disrespecting her. I encouraged her to make up her mind about what she wanted to do and stick to it. It seems her husband felt he could have gotten her back when he was ready. When she finally made up her mind to move, stay moved and move forward with her life he came back to claim her. I was shocked when he stopped by my house declaring she is his woman and he is not going to allow any other man to take her “I am going back to get my woman”. They are now still happily married and had a third child after the reconciliation. Seems one really has to be firm with the boundaries but it is not always easy to stand firm.



  208.  #208Jeannette on May 30, 2011 at 6:56 am

    Thank you Femininewoman, I also wonder the same thing…..I think I will have a discussion with him later today….I need to clear the air…I need to put my feeling messages together. “Steve, I feel sadness because of feeling pushed aside at this time. I know Rick needs care but I feel that I am not being recognized at the moment for also needing care. Is this too much for you Steve? I want to know I am loved and not just seen as a possible caregiver for you in the future…”



  209.  #209Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Mel family gossip is really draining for me and I have chosen to detach myself from it. That I can say for sure. Anyone who brings it to me now I immediately tell them I don’t want to hear it. That is my boundary. Him trashing you to his friends is just painting himself in a bad light in their eyes, is my humble opinion. Some must be wondering what he must be saying about them to others. I also would not allow that to change my behavior and I would tell him that if I faced such a situation. I respect their choice of what they choose to discuss with outsiders but it feels disrespectful to me for others to do that to me but I will not be their trash can if they want to do that to someone else, especially family. I am not saying not to share with your mother as a matter of fact I would encourage you to. I just for myself prefer to graceful excuse myself when it comes to gossiping because it reeks of low class, for me. I am sorry to hear he treated you that way but I would also feel happy to know that you look for ways to train him how to treat you with respect. I do believe maturity breeds maturity, whatever I express in the world will be reflected back to me.



  210.  #210Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:00 am

    207:

    I am learning and adopting new boundaries weekly it seems. Of course, I didn’t hardly have any before so it would make sense that I am still finding what I will/won’t accept.

    ~Lilybelle.



  211.  #211Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:07 am

    Jeannette I sense some you blaming in the message though it is not implicit just implied.

    I would choose to say “Steve, I love how I feel when I am with you and I miss our closeness and the times we used to just have fun being together. I feel sadness because I want to feel loved in a romantic way. I know Rick needs care but I want to feel like a priority in your life. What do you think? Is there anything we can do to bring back the initimacy and the closeness I feel afraid that we are drifting apart” or something like that making it more about me, how I feel and what I want. I would also experiment with pausing after each sentence to see if he says something in between because it might be too long for him to fully absorb everything at once.



  212.  #212Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:08 am

    RE 210 Me too Lilybelle which I what I feel is part of the magic of circular dating. I am doing it with everyone.



  213.  #213Boomer on May 30, 2011 at 7:15 am

    Lillybelle 210:

    “I am learning and adopting new boundaries weekly it seems. Of course, I didn’t hardly have any before so it would make sense that I am still finding what I will/won’t accept.”

    Oh, I know, Lillybelle. I did not even realize until recently just how low to non-existent my boundaries were in the past. With men. With friends. With co-workers. With family (especially with family). I’m sometimes embarrassed at how much I did not say “No,” and how much I said “Yes” by just staying silent in the interest of not “making waves” or hurting other people…or because of abject fear of rejection for stating my needs/preferences/requirements.

    It feels SOOO wonderful to be the boss of me now 🙂



  214.  #214Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Jeannette I may even choose to leave Rick out of the message as he might experience it as you blaming Rick. If anything maybe say something about respecting his choice to take care of his brother. Or I guess if you feel jealous of all the attention Rick is getting, it might be advisable to share that in the name of being authentic and honoring your feelings.



  215.  #215Mel on May 30, 2011 at 7:18 am

    I don’t think I would classify my conversation with my mother as gossip. I agree, there’s a difference. I tried to show respect for him by saying that he’s not a bad person, but that we’re having difficulties. I think the difference between gossip and sharing is our willingness to accept responsibility for our part in the problem.

    The thing with just venting (to outsiders) is that they are not given the whole story. They take sides.



  216.  #216Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:20 am

    213:

    Are you another one of my Sister’s from another Mother, Boomer? 🙂

    “Especially with family, for fear of making waves or hurting other people”.

    And, not realizing the WHOLE time that I was hurting ME!



  217.  #217Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:22 am

    RE 215 Yes Mel. No I was not suggesting that conversation was gossip. Sorry for the confusion. I was just trying to raise your awareness but you seem to be. Sometimes when we are unaware we say things that can possibly be taken the wrong way. You are in a delicate place but I am convinced you can turn it around, one way or another.



  218.  #218Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:22 am

    215:

    I wouldn’t classify talking to your mom as gossip either, Mel.

    I do know how it feels for your spouse to talk about you to others and have them (family, friends) choose sides without having the whole story.

    Ouch. To this day, I won’t dignify those stories with an explanation.



  219.  #219Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:25 am

    RE 217 I meant yes there is a difference. And yes taking responsibility for our side is key for me.



  220.  #220Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:29 am

    RE 218 I believe that might be what is called “projecting”. They don’t want to take responsibility so they tell stories and blame while others listening unconsciously take sides. I refuse to go there any more with my family even if I have to physically remove myself. If they want to choose to talk about me behind my back so be it.



  221.  #221tori on May 30, 2011 at 7:31 am

    okay sirens,

    all day and night thinking yesterday. my mind is filled with so much thought i feel like i might explode at any minute. i’m so overwhelmed i can’t get it all sorted out. i feel like i have options. here are my options:
    1) i follow rori’s four rules and do nothing for, say, a couple months; giving him the space and time he says he needs to “sort through his head and issues.” in this option, i will only respond to his texts when he sends them and pray that he does, indeed, intend to go on vacation with me like he says. because in rori’s rules i’m not allowed to mention it.

    2) i “surrender speak” again and process my feelings and have a heart to heart with him about what i want from this relationship. i tell him i feel sad that he never wants to see me. i don’t want to always wonder whether or not i’m with a man who even likes me or not. i feel lonely in this relationship. but he will tell me what he has already told me, which is that he just can’t give me what i need and that will bring us right back to this place.

    3) i just break up with him, which is totally, 100% against rori’s rules because my only reason for doing so would be for control. somewhere in my mind i have concluded the sick thought that if i leave, it will “straighten him out” and make him realize he needs to step up before it’s too late. i’ve heard that so many times and i’ve actually seen that work with men so many times. when we, women, stand up for ourselves and take a stand and actually walk out of their lives, for some reason, they are able to make a decision. and i really am wondering if i make a stand, let him know that i won’t stay in limbo, that he might actually lose me, that that is a possibility, if he will act and come to his senses. it might trigger in his brain somewhere.
    but i’m scared of that option, because what if i really do have a man here who does just need some time and space to sort through some things, who then resents me for not standing by him? what if this is his way of coming closer to me and i’m just overprocessing everything and it really isn’t about me at all and i go and do the stupid thing? HELP!!!!!!!



  222.  #222Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Boomer I am curious if you did your Rosetta Stone. I am guessing you went straight to sleep.



  223.  #223Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Okay, I am having so much fun with a new CD online right now. He is tripping all over himself to take me to breakfast, to coffee, to the store, whatever I want.

    Anyway, he indicated the doesn’t like when a woman “makes a guy guess” about what she wants.

    I told him that “when a woman does this, she is setting him up to fail when all he really wants is to make her happy and help her out in anyway he can.”

    Him: Now your talking, I like the way you think, maybe I will make it my job to make you happy. How did you get so smart?



  224.  #224Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Lilybelle I was born smart



  225.  #225Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:38 am

    RE 223 Isn’t it enlightening to see how much intensity they have in the initial stage and now make you really think about how much power you really have



  226.  #226Senior Lady Vibe on May 30, 2011 at 7:40 am

    @216: Lilybelle says:

    “Are you another one of my Sister’s from another Mother, Boomer? ”

    I think we all are: “brother from another mother“ and “sister from another mister.”
    🙂

    I’m enjoying the holiday weekend and glad I had a little picnic yesterday while the weather was BEEYOOOTiFul. I woke up early this morning to thunder and rain.

    “Sweetie” and I are “still together” as Jacqueline puts it. Yea! “We” are going out for coffee now that the sun is out. But maybe we’ll stay in later this afternoon and watch movies if it starts to rain again.

    BTW, I now have 27 soulmate rings…and still acquiring. LOL 😆

    Happy Memorial Day to all as I remember that life is short and I’m responsible for my own happiness.

    xoxo
    SLV



  227.  #227Boomer on May 30, 2011 at 7:41 am

    FW, I read the “Quick Start” pamphlet, and that’s about it. And then yes…I fell asleep!

    How’d you know???



  228.  #228Boomer on May 30, 2011 at 7:42 am

    SLV…missed you 🙂



  229.  #229Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:43 am

    225:

    I pay way more attention to these early exchanges now. Way more than I ever have in the past. They really divluge quite a bit about themselves.

    It is enlightening.

    🙂



  230.  #230Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:46 am

    RE 227 Your vibe gave you away in that post.

    RE 229 Yayy for enlightenment. Since I have been here Boomer’s post has been the one that I learn a lot about particularly in the initial stages.



  231.  #231Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 7:47 am

    226

    SLV~ I got absolutely giddy with excitement when I read about your 27 soulmate rings. Laughed out loud in excitement!! Have you hung them on ribbons? Tell me what you have done with them. I’m getting closer to the move to my new apartment and am looking for ideas. 🙂

    I have wondered how you and Sweetie were doing. Coffee this morning sounds fabulous! Of course, you are still together.

    ~Lilybelle.



  232.  #232Boomer on May 30, 2011 at 7:54 am

    230…FW, I don’t follow…you learn from me and my posts?



  233.  #233Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 7:58 am

    RE 232 Talk about my run on sentences.

    Yes I learn a lot from your post. How aware and enlightened you are in the intial stages of connecting online and in first dates. It seems you are very aware and your intuition seems laser sharp.



  234.  #234Boomer on May 30, 2011 at 7:59 am

    FW, and yet…I ignore my intuition still.

    Ay yi yi. I am still learning.

    But thanks 🙂



  235.  #235Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 8:23 am

    RE 221 tori I was looking for another post to direct you to it where Rori posted some comments from Turtle Girl as an article in the past. In it she says to believe what he tells you. When you say “he has already told me, which is that he just can’t give me what i need” it triggered that in my head. I don’t think it is about whether he does or doesn’t like you. How would you react to your girlfriend he she told you her boyfriend told her that? Is he doing what he is doing now because he wants to be a good guy and not hurt you outright? Does he want you to take no for an answer, see the light and go take care of yourself? Ask yourself the question, why am I here? These are tough questions but are they worth pondering?



  236.  #237Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 8:48 am

    SLV…sooo good to see ya 🙂

    Mel…(((hugs))) I feel amazed how open and vulnerable and authentic you keep sounding throughout all of this…any man who gets you is super super lucky!! I feel happy too that you have your mom’s support…and all of ours too!



  237.  #238Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 8:51 am

    tori here it is:
    “When a man tells you that he has nothing to offer you- believe him. He doesn’t!! When a man wants you to do all the emotional work while he sits back and takes- you will just end up feeling resentful and drained and angry and crappy. It will be all wrong and nothing will fix it. He is not going to change. A leopard does not change his spots! He is a leopard and was all along!

    When a man tells you “I am not gonna chase you” believe him. He is not going to!! That means he does not care enough to make the effort to win you. PERIOD.”
    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/love-life-turnaround-leaving-the-toxic-dump-behind/#respond



  238.  #239flower on May 30, 2011 at 8:51 am

    i saw him in town, he drove by me making sure i notice him and smiling so i made myself available for him to come to me after shopping i said feels good to c him, we chatted , i felt some discomfort (or whatever it was? )from his side like he didnt know what to do

    i feel bit nervous around him …

    then after he gave me lift home i txted him

    i sent ‘thank u’ a while after i got home

    and he said :for what ???nt done nything

    me: for being kind, u gave me lift

    him:haha i am kind to everone…its what homans r meant to be

    me: i just felt like saying

    him:ok

    me:now feeling weird tho as if questioned

    him:then enjoy yr weird feeling..all in yr own head

    me:it doesnt feel gd to be attacked

    him:whatever..dont bore me…nobody attacked u ..go and ceate ur own drama..dont invite me to yr daydreaming..bye

    me:i feel yr anger thank u(this was sent same time as his line)

    him:haha anger haha stp dreaming drama..no reason for anger in my life…

    me: its ok u have every right in the world to talk to me like this but it doesnt feel good

    him:as i said create yr own drama, dont invit me to yr drama party..offlod yr thoughts somewhere else.stop writting

    me: u dont understand its feeling not thought just expressed
    him:ok enjoy yr drama feeling of nothing..find a man and move on

    me:yes id feel better cooking dinner now than have this conversation

    him: yes agreed go

    me:i feel awful and upset
    bye

    him:good for u ..enjoy that drama feeling..
    me:feelings r to be experienced hether nice or not

    him:yes agreed, so enjoy that party without me..self inflicted drama in yr game alone..ciao



  239.  #240flower on May 30, 2011 at 8:53 am

    so this looks like 2 people having 2 different conversations…….



  240.  #241tori on May 30, 2011 at 8:54 am

    femininewoman,
    i have wondered if i should believe what he tells me and that comment alone helps me a lot. he tells me he wants me to stay in his life, that he doesn’t want the relationship to end and that he just needs some time and space to resolve his feelings for his exwife because he doesn’t want to hurt me in the long run. he says that he sees the silver lining for us at the end of the tunnel but he has to make sure that if she were to come back in his life later on, he wouldn’t take her back. he has not expressed to me that he wants our relationship to end though. i have given him multiple opportunities and each time he has clearly said that if he didn’t want to be with me, he would end it. i guess maybe i have been having a hard time “believing what he said” because so many times men have lied to me, cheated on me, or carried on a relationship with me when they didn’t want to. my hopes for us is that he is telling the truth and that there is a silver lining and that all of this waiting and space and time is for a purpose. is there a good reason for waiting for a man if that is what he tells you and you believe what he tells you?



  241.  #242Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 8:57 am

    hmmm….well…

    this past weekend with hotpilot felt really good…especially the part with hanging out with my family….but yesterday I could feel myself disengaging…

    this is what I do ….it’s a pattern…but…

    Hotpilot just isn’t doing it for me 🙁 I am not feeling more connected…I don’t feel love…it seems toooooo soon to feel this comfortable and nonchalant about things

    I feel a little bad cause I’m starting to think of other men…I feel ok that I’m able to express how I feel but I don’t want to hurt him 🙁

    What do I say…”um…Hotpilot…I’m just not feeling more connected…something’s missing and I don’t know why or what it is exactly”….
    “if you were a better lover and made me feel bad I would like you a lot more” 😉 just kidding..kinda

    I actually feel good thinking about dating other men again…that seems to be an indication of something..



  242.  #243Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:00 am

    RE 239 I see it as him telling you he is stuck at your word attacked. He didn’t seem to be able to move away from there. I also feels like the conversation went on too long with him trying to lead you somewhere and you unable to follow.



  243.  #244Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:02 am

    RE 242 Is it your fear of intimacy? Maybe wanting to create waves because it feels too comfortable? I’v had that pattern of creating something bad after a really feel good time.



  244.  #245T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Mel, I didn’t see if you mentioned it or not, but are you going to do counseling with or without him? I would suggest going no matter what even if he chooses not to go.



  245.  #246Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Flower…that conversation feels really bad…@239



  246.  #247flower on May 30, 2011 at 9:05 am

    femininewoman yeah i see your point …thanx, yes it felt too long , everytime i moved away to pans , said bye there was another msg and his msg the same , nothing evolving …… ill see him tonite at party …whats yr advice?



  247.  #248Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Tori that is the reason Rori recommends CDating, so you don’t wait. It seems most of us drive ourselves insane by waiting because we tend to want more. This suggests that you need to cut the cords from past relationships so your fear does not cause you to judge him through the lens of those past relationships “because so many times men have lied to me, cheated on me, or carried on a relationship with me when they didn’t want to.” I am also wondering if you have looked at your part/responsibility in this type of drama?



  248.  #249T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Jilly, I agree with FW. Could this be a pattern of yours that needs to be broken? I could be way off, but is it possible that you are trying to find the one thing that bothers you to give you an excuse for an out?

    Not being a good lover is something that I believe can be fixed. He seems to be a willing particpant, so that is something you can work on together to improve which will also increase your intimacy together.



  249.  #250Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:10 am

    RE 247 flower do you have any of Rori’s materials if not I would recommend reading as much as possible here on the blog. It sounds like you should be leaning wayyyyyyyyyy back and allow him to come towards you. I would load up on the Power and Self Esteem category before I go to that party. I would only respond to him if he approaches me. It seems he has you in his “drama” category in his mind and I am not sure if it is worth your while to work to get out of there. He would only be practice to notice myself, change my words and my vibe right now.



  250.  #251Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 9:11 am

    FW…I don’t think it’s my fear of intimacy but it probably is..it has to be..cause this is what I do…I’ve been trying to just “be” present and in the moment…I really really want this to work out cause he’s everything I’ve been wanting as far as a “healthy, stable, responsible, caring, good natured, generous, goodlooking man goes”…doesn’t he sound dreamy?? lol

    I feel pouty…why??? what’s my message here?? this is how 90 percent of my relationships have ended…with me saying….Um…no…this is kinda boring now…and I think of life outside the relationship and it looks soooooooo good



  251.  #252DE on May 30, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Mel:

    I feel so sad hearing about the latest developments…I hope u continue to share here, on the blog…I am here for u …
    ********************

    U said “He’s had no problem trashing me to his friends.”

    ********************
    Most cheaters (there are some who are quiet and do actually the opposite) complain about their spouse a lot…To me, this is how they get to justify their cheating actions…Being liked and of course, not judged, by their friends is very important…should any of them run into him/her in public…at least, they were given heads up, u know?!!!

    This statement reminded me of a quite a few stories…:(

    The latest, is an ex-gf of mine…She did the exact same thing…while they were separated about about two years (he initially cheated on her)…i was all supportive of discovering herself, flirting, dating etc…
    But when they got back together, she continued to keep her lover and of course, a lot of extra dudes…She perfected the idea of CD and having fun…but there was a cost to it…she lost her sense of identity…with all the games she was playing…she appears fun and nice…but deep inside she was a stone…

    I shared with her about Rori…she became soooo defensive about me insinuating she is cold…fake, and that continuing to complain about her husband being boring, unaffectionate, etc…is what validates her to continue her affairs and extra curriculum activities…

    My friendship with her ended…and although, i miss the real her, I don’t miss the drama and pretenses that come along with the facade…

    Warm hugs,



  252.  #253T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I don’t know if this is one of my patterns or not, but I definitely has some NV’s screaming at me when I am with Poker Player. We had a great time yesterday on a day trip which included my daughter and her friend. He was so sweet and so good with the kids and planned everything. We were togther all day and I was the happiest I have been in a long time. But then my NV’s pop in and start asking me “what does he see in me”, “sooner or later he will get bored with you and find someone better”, “you arent’ good enough for him” etc.

    I try to stop them, I think I am successful at it, but sometimes he will look at me and say “I wish I knew what you are thinking right now”.



  253.  #254flower on May 30, 2011 at 9:13 am

    yes i have roris programs , been reading blog for a while now , im working on myself and leaning back , yes but i see the toxicity from him and from me , im always doing the flipping like sme second i can be im best’ and ‘im worst’ kind of thing



  254.  #255Mel on May 30, 2011 at 9:15 am

    T-Girl,

    Yes, I’m going to go to counseling regardless. For me.

    It appears that he’s booked some sessions on his own. No word on couples therapy yet though. Although maybe it would be good to be clear on what we both want before we go to counseling together anyways….



  255.  #256flower on May 30, 2011 at 9:16 am

    well at the party tonight im gonna dance with a guy whos actualy friend of him ..well dunno if its good or bad , im not that attracted to him physically but still we danced saturday and today we said we are gonna dance tonight together too , it will be cool , just i know he fancies me (some other his friends do too! )



  256.  #257Mel on May 30, 2011 at 9:30 am

    FW:

    Thanks for the article! That’s it exactly. I feel like I’ve wasted 10 years of my life. That I’ve given up SO much. At the time I was happy to do so, but now I feel used. I feel like I was a good, supportive wife for 9 years. I supported him through a lot of changes, school and moving around a lot. But I feel like the second I went through a difficult time myself, he just abandoned me. Whatever happened to “for better or for worse?”

    Now that he’s working and can (almost) support himself, he’s questioning the relationship and fantasizing about a different life.

    I like how Rori said that it’s pointless to run after the man who rides away with your heart tucked under his arm. A heart that he doesn’t even want.

    It’s just hard to let go though. I hope that he will not just give up on a 10 year marriage without even trying to save it. But this is not my decision.



  257.  #258Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:30 am

    RE 251 Jilly the thing that came to me while reading that was why not just stop wanting and just surrender? It also seems like you are processing your doubts which CCarter seem to suggests is good to do before totally committing. I am also thinking it might be good to review what Rori says about boring. I remember hearing something about it on this months Interview with Susan Quinn.



  258.  #259Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Nasty NV’s!!!



  259.  #260Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:35 am

    RE 257 Mel reading that what occured to me was maybe that was the type of”relationship” both of you signed up for at the time? Maybe it’s usefulness is now worn out and you both need a new one now? Does this make sense to you? It is just my thoughts so please feel free to ignore. It seems both of you are in a different place and have grown somewhat from what you have written in the past. I have read I believe somewhere here that the relationship makes the marriage. Is it time now to define another relationship, maybe a romantic one now that you are clear about what you want? These are questions that I believe I would be asking myself if in your shoes.



  260.  #261Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 9:41 am

    T-Girl…(((hugs))) you are awesome…tell those NV’s to go to the corner right now!

    and yes…I agree that we become more intimate that way too…but it just feels like so much work..cause it’s almost everytime…even this morning…we got hot and heavy and then it’s like 10 seconds 🙁 and then he apologizes and I start feeling annoyed and resentful!!! and I don’t like feeling that way 🙁 and he says…”you’re just too good” and it feels good to hear but makes me feel sad at the same time



  261.  #262Mel on May 30, 2011 at 9:47 am

    But you see, I didn’t sacrifice and commit to this man for all of these years only to be tossed aside when my usefulness wore off. I thought we had dreams together, goals and aspirations. For most of the marriage, he wanted these things too. Now it seems like everything was just pointless.



  262.  #263Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:48 am

    RE 261 Jilly I have a guy in my life who apologizes all the time to the point I was tempted to tell him to stop. I read somewhere maybe Inner Bonding where it was suggested that sometimes the apologize causes us to kind of feel like the judge and jury. I have seen here though some suggestion about guys apologizing, maybe connected with them wanting us to be happy. I am wondering if it was the apology that triggered it for you. I have felt that maybe I was giving off some vibe that maybe caused him to not be comfortable being himself why he was apologizing so profusely?



  263.  #264Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:50 am

    No Mel. I meant maybe the relationship was designed around those needs at that time? Those needs no longer exist anymore. So now a new relationship might need to be formed around some conscious decisions about what you want? I am processing here for myself too because sometimes we take things for granted. Is it possible that this is a point of evolution for your relationship with him?



  264.  #265Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:52 am

    RE 262 I am thinking of it in terms of the usefulness of “that” relationship? What do you think Mel?



  265.  #266Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 9:53 am

    thanks FW…I’m working on the “surrenduring” part 🙂 and in the bedroom I’ve just come to realize that it is what it is…but I feel myself kind of floating away further and further everytime…I’m not sure what that’s all about

    I feel frustrated…and I also feel scared to surrender…feels like giving up…feels like settling…feels like this is the best it’ll ever get…
    and that feels suffocating
    feels like dying
    I’m crying now
    I don’t want to feel like I’ve given up on life
    I don’t want to feel like I’m dying while I’m still alive



  266.  #267T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Mel, please don’t look at your marriage as pointless. This marriage is/was your path in life. That path is still leading you somewhere. As long as you take care of yourself, which it sounds like you are, happiness is waiting for you at the end of the path. It is hard to see that now, but it is there. Trust me, it is there.



  267.  #268Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 9:57 am

    FW…I felt really supportive at first….but now I don’t…and I at this point I don’t know what to do…I want to stay authentic



  268.  #269Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Jilly I got goosepimples reading 266. I have seen in real life a friend who just knows how to surrender and cries at the drop of the hat. My belief is surrender is the most goddessy thing to do. I heard the Interview 2 months ago where the guy says his wife surrendered immediately, the way he had imagined a Goddess would. Surrender helps me to truly melt.



  269.  #270T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Jilly, those are some extreme statements. I can literally feel those emotions from you now, especially when you said you don’t want to feel like you are dying while you are still alive. I don’t remember, have you spoken to Hot Pilot about this issue? Perhaps you are having these strong emotions because you haven’t discussed it and it is hanging over your relationship like a big, black cloud?



  270.  #271Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 10:00 am

    266:

    (((Jilly)))

    ~Lil



  271.  #272T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 10:01 am

    When I have my NV’s I need to remind myself that Poker Player calls me a goddess and tells me I am very feminine. He is the first man who has ever said that to me. Rori’s programs are working….



  272.  #273Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 10:02 am

    I am tearyeyed because of that Jilly and I sincerely feel you are blocking yourself from your own happily ever after. Look at what you said before 90% of your relationships end this way. I am here wondering if your inner drama queen could help you here? Or engaging your creative energy to go get some excitement in your life without Hotpilot? This sounds like a hot juicy man that is being described as boring.



  273.  #274Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 10:04 am

    272:

    T-Girl~

    That feels great to read. Makes me smile-y!



  274.  #275Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 10:05 am

    RE 270 T-Girl for me it feels like rigor mortis setting on the sense of control over one’s life and hanging on to the last threads of control. Like she is afraid of allowing him in to lead the dance.



  275.  #276tori on May 30, 2011 at 10:06 am

    i am not familiar with CDating. i am trying so hard to only look at this single relationship–mine and his–and the issues and things surrounding it and try to figure out what i should do. i do know, however, that my part in the drama is my characteristic tendency to overanalyze and worry about things. i have an acute anxiety disorder, a history of depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, and am probably still recovering from a nervous breakdown i had four years ago. He is not aware of any of it…i suffer from it silently and have kept it from him for fear he would think i’m crazy. But when it comes to worrying about things…it definately plays a role and right now, i am missing him a lot and this is certainly weighing heavily on my mind. my only goal is to do whatever is essential to work this out in the long run with him because he has stated that is his goal too. i just want to remain sane in the process.
    Geez…i must sound so completely confused and stupid!! and nuts!!!



  276.  #277Mel on May 30, 2011 at 10:07 am

    ” Is it possible that this is a point of evolution for your relationship with him?”

    I hope so. I’m not opposed to change and redefining things. Coming to an understanding of what we both want and need to make us happy. This is what I hope counseling can do for us. IF he decides to go.

    Sometimes things have to hit rock-bottom before real change can happen, so maybe there is hope.

    I guess I just want to be clear with myself that there are certain things that I’m not willing to budge on. That I would feel violate the marriage commitment.

    Dating sites, as I mentioned earlier is absolutely one of them. If he feels he NEEDS this in his life, than I’m not the girl for him. (And I suspect he may have a difficult time finding LT relationship with a girl that WOULD be okay with this… but maybe not).

    A really good friend and her husband recently went through some tough times and managed to turn things around with some professional help. I think their relationship is so much stronger now because of the challenges that they faced and worked through together.



  277.  #278Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 10:10 am

    RE 277 Mel you sound strong and conscious. I really salute you. I am sure he will feel your strength. Dating sites is definitely a no no for me. This might be a boundary that could help to heal him.



  278.  #279Laughing Goddess on May 30, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Mel:

    Hi!

    Something jumped out to me.

    It sound like while he was in school you were in more of a masculine role. Working to provide financial support, etc.

    And now that he’s working, the roles can shift into one where you are more feminie energy and he is masculine.

    I wonder if that could be part of why he’s looking at dating sites or hanging out with that female friend. Maybe he wants to express his masculinity but feels unable to with you based on long standing patterns in your relationship.

    I wonder if you could outgirl him, really sink into your feminine energy.

    I dunno if this is what’s going on with you two but I thought I’d put it out there to see if it resonates.

    Xoxo



  279.  #280T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 10:29 am

    274 Lilybelle – yes, thank you :). Makes me smiley too. I need to remember those to combat those NV’s. I just thought of another thing he said to me: “when I close my eyes I can see your face”. If that statement can’t get rid of NV’s than I don’t know what can.



  280.  #281Mel on May 30, 2011 at 10:31 am

    LG,

    Interesting… good hypothesis there.

    The funny thing is that I have really needed him this past year. I’ve been out of work, lonely, frustrated. But he didn’t seem to want to “step-up” and be the strong man for me…

    Although, maybe what I was looking for was more emotional support, which he had given so freely before, but was now unwilling/unable to give.

    Interesting, indeed!



  281.  #282Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I like what LG said. Mel that first part of your response sounded really girly, to me. The second part might indicate the switching of roles and something that you were used to doing in the past? I would put it up against the previous comment in 257 to see if I could get some clarity Mel. I am also wondering if engaging him with that line of thinking would yield anything? Maybe together you can decide who wants to be the masculine energy partner and the feminine? I think Rori’s book suggests actually choosing.



  282.  #283Lilybelle on May 30, 2011 at 10:46 am

    280:

    T-Girl!!! That sentiment got rid of MY NV’s! LOL!!!

    That is yummy stuff right there!!!



  283.  #284Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 10:54 am

    FW and T-Girl… 🙁 I do push love away…so I can feel free and sometimes that freedom feels like loneliness too…I would rather feel free and alone than feel stuck knowing that more is possible but I can’t fly so nothing else is possible…and that looks like a relationship that is meh…

    I’m crying and it feels good…
    I have cried about 6 times in front of Hotpilot…more than any other man and at the drop of a hat (we were talking about my dad the other night and I couldn’t stop the tears)…since being here on the blog and seeing other women cry it feels soooo beautiful to me..so I’m not afraid to do it…I do feel bad if I feel frustrated in front of him because I don’t want him to see that part…crying is ok but I don’t feel ok about showing frustration or disappointment because that’s really hard to take for anyone

    well…I want to express these feelings with him somehow…to share that I’m starting to disengage and this is what I always do and I don’t want to because I think he is amazing…what can we do about this? what does he think?



  284.  #285Daria on May 30, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Ooh! I notice I felt scared reading Rosas post 188.

    I think it’s because I am feeling lost on how she feels, it feels like I’m engaged in a disagreement w her, and I’m projecting feelings onto her

    My post 187 was that way too, I just started w my beliefs instead of my feelings … And it feels disconnected and jarring , and blunt in a scary feeling way

    Sigh out

    It feels Masculine! It feels Hard!

    I feel so excited to notice this, I get how acknowledging my feelings first feels so much softer! Wow…

    This is big for me yay.

    Yay yAy yay yay fuchkin yay!

    OMG!

    I won’t have to feel that cold disconnect anymore!

    This is awesome.



  285.  #286Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 10:59 am

    thanks Lilybelle for the hugs 🙂

    T-Girl…I love that he calls you a goddess!



  286.  #287T-Girl on May 30, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Jilly, I think it is great that these feelings are coming to awareness. It is the first step. Perhaps in your other relationships you weren’t aware enough to think them through and ended the relationship? Maybe you are breaking your pattern afterall.

    How did you feel about him when you were away for those 3 weeks. Did you miss him? Where you anxious to see him again?

    I will be thinking about you today. I must get my butt in gear and off the computer 🙂



  287.  #288Elizabeth on May 30, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Jilly

    “I want to express these feelings with him somehow…to share that I’m starting to disengage and this is what I always do and I don’t want to because I think he is amazing…what can we do about this? what does he think?”

    Hi Jilly, 🙂
    This stands out to me, because
    one thing I don’t like that I do is provide them commentary about me and my so-called patterns. That’s TMI. Too much too soon. Like giving away the ending at the beginning. Like telling them what to think about it. Like how you say above,
    you want to share that you “are starting to disengage” (that’s very good) and then “this is what I always do” (not a good thing to say, imo)

    I dunno, I wouldn’t focus too, too much on what is your “pattern”. Just as much, focus on how you feel with him and away from him. You know, he just may not be “The One”, that’s all. OTOH, it could be that the sex issue is what is making you doubt. That’s definitely workable. But, if you are not feeling it for other reasons, do you really want a project? I know we sometimes put too much emphasis on all the time we already invested, but I don’t think it’s good to give that much consideration.

    Ask yourself, “What am I doing here?” (with this man, in this relationship)

    xoxo



  288.  #289gina on May 30, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Daria and Rosa,
    thanks very much for the feedback.

    I don’t feel responsible for healing him, though I believe that if I am true to my own boundaries, it is possible for him to be inspired and enabled to heal and grow.

    It feels like a dose of hard reality to focus on the fact that he obviously doesn’t want to step up for me. It doesn’t feel good.

    And it wouldn’t feel good to “wait” for him, because of my imaginings of what’s in his heart.

    But it’s feeling good to have clarity that there were 2 issues for me in the relationship:

    1. the drinking/lifestyle that just wasn’t working for me and was interfering with my ability to connect,

    2. the way he NEEDED my attention and focus and tried to force me to give it.

    I needed those 2 issues to be addressed before I could feel safe enough to move to Boston to be with him. And I wish I had communicated better, and I am sorry that I acted out my feelings in destructive ways. And I’m sorry I shut down and became cold. But I’m glad to now see that those 2 issues were what was bothering me. I do wonder if things could be different if I had communicated better. I feel a little sad and regretful about it. But I feel compassion for myself, because I wanted to know how to do better, but I just didn’t. And I’m glad I have some clarity now.

    And Daria, you’re right, I do feel a lot of healing after crying last night. I feel pleasantly surprised. Cause I was feeling so desperate, I thought of calling him. I wasn’t sure if I was being strong by not calling, or if I was keeping myself from doing what I wanted. but right now I feel glad that I didn’t “give in” to the temptation to reach out for him. I feel good to hold my ground and only respond to him when/if he offers something of value to me.

    I feel good to no longer be mad and self righteous, thinking “NO! I’M NOT PUTTING UP WITH THIS, BUDDY! HOW DARE YOU?!!”

    Now, I feel like saying “YES! I love you so much and I love loving you, it just doesn’t feel good to love you “On Demand”, and it doesnt’ feel good to participate in an unhealthy lifestyle with you. But if those things were addressed and if we could get back to being on the same team, then I would move to Boston, I would do whatever – I miss all that was good about our relationship.”

    And, it feels good to not worry about ‘why’ he isn’t ontacting me, but rather to rest assured that I do not want him until he comes to me willing to address what wasn’t working.



  289.  #290Daria on May 30, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Hmm I feel afraid of bringing up uncomfortable feelings in Rosa by commenting on this … And I want to be open and brave and share

    I want to practice keeping this in an about me way

    I felt tightened up and scared when I read the post about the G-man coming onto her for his gratification

    I see it as him coming onto her because she’s an irresistible goddess, her taking a chance on sex and exploring what breaking her boundary would feel like – I remember her setting a no sex w him boundary – abd then changing her mind…

    I felt scared then. I felt thrilled for her too… It reminded me of my times w men when feeling intimate felt so good, like guywho

    And times when I felt awful when I broke my boundaries w men – ugh –

    And how it’s an experiment and all ok…

    And I felt intrigued and so curious what would happen –

    And I feel good imagining that this man was so attracted to her and wanted to love her in the way he could, through sex and presence,

    Even though he can’t offer a relationship, or even consistency

    It feels peaceful. It feels love

    And I feel afraid to share all this stuff…

    I feel tightened up and pained, cuz thinking ‘he took advantage of her’. Feels worse than thinking

    ‘she’s irresistible, of course he wants to give her sex and love, of course he wants her, any man would’

    And I would feel angry, and betrayed and sad and lonely and desperate and numb and confused in that situation

    And I feel bad to blame him, because I would feel like I’m losing my power some, my power to believe I am loved, and I am safe

    Yeah I wouldnt feel SAFE holding that thought of ‘he took advantage of me’

    And that’s what comes across for me, a feeling scared, not feeling safe now

    And I feel concerned, and sad

    And compassionate

    And I feel good to think that it all will work out anyway, and will shift to the focus of the feelings and all will heal and be love

    There is all the time in the world…



  290.  #291Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Elizabeth…I love it..thank you…

    honestly I think it’s more than the sex…and I love that you said I don’t need to tell him about my patterns…might make him want to “fix” me

    I don’t feel like I’ve invested too much time…and NO I don’t want a project 🙂

    I don’t know if I would have gotten to this point so soon if I had continued to CD…so I don’t regret that at all…I feel like I’ve done it the best way for me…

    but if I had an answer right now…I would say…it’s been a great experience but I don’t feel we are a match..I’m going to express myself though cause this still about loving and choosing me and my happily everafter and this man is here to facilitate that…however it ends up



  291.  #292Elizabeth on May 30, 2011 at 11:27 am

    284 Jilly

    “I do push love away…so I can feel free”

    I tell myself that sometimes, but it is not true for me anymore. What is more true for me, is what you say next:

    ” and sometimes that freedom feels like loneliness too…I would rather feel free and alone than feel stuck knowing that more is possible but I can’t fly so nothing else is possible…and that looks like a relationship that is meh…”

    The way I interpret this is that you are saying that you want to feel just as free when in relationship with a man that you do when you are alone. What is it that stands in the way of you feeling that with hotpilot? What is that “more” that you think is possible? and can you see that as a possibility with hotpilot, the way he is, just as he is, right now? I think if we are really honest with ourselves, we know the answer to that.

    xoxo



  292.  #293Daria on May 30, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Reading 188 I feel afraid that I still feel a pull of duty to heal men…

    And I remind Myself that I no longer need to be run by that…

    I KNOW I heal men, because that’s what I am, a goddess and men heal in my presence…

    And not in my presence too, if my boundary is keeping them out of my space

    My honoring me heals all, effortlessly

    I dont have to Do anything other than love me and focus on me

    I trust that healing is happening for all the world and men in my life, by my doing what feels good to me

    And I feel afraid to share…



  293.  #294Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 11:29 am

    T-Girl…I hope you have a wonderful day…and thank you for your support..I think it’s good for these feelings to be coming up too 🙂

    There’s a new post and Rori just said that ALL of our feelings are valuable…that just feels relieving to read



  294.  #295Daria on May 30, 2011 at 11:30 am

    But it feels so important to voice myself



  295.  #296Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Daria…293…I love this post



  296.  #297LonePlum on May 30, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Rosa 192

    My sweet Rosa, you are doing so good, you are such an inspiration.

    May be the old Rosa keeps controlling a little bit?
    If she could let go, she would not worry. She would enjoy the moment and let the future be what it is: the future, so who knows?

    Let them do what they are doing, Rosa, no man would keep dating you if he was not attracted.
    You are judging women’s body, you fear that a woman with a scar is not worth love and can’t make a man’s penis look up. That is YOUR fear.

    Surrender

    Let them court you, don’t think in advance what they will feel for you

    They know what they feel NOW.
    They know they date YOU for the pleasure of your company.
    That’s something you can be sure of, because you are leaning back, they get nothing else but the pleasure of your company.

    They are hooked by the vibes.
    They might stop dating you for the same reasons they stopped dating before the cancer. The vibrations would not be syntonized.
    Or they might keep dating you.
    It is not about the cancer or the menopause.

    Before the cancer you did not have such quality dates as you are having now.
    If I am not mistaken about the type of men you accepted before the cancer, it tends to prove the vibes is what syntonizes us with good men, not a scarless body.
    The french “Amazons” tend to prove it is not the body with 2 breasts either that keeps or attracts love.

    Before the cancer you flirted with sexual innuendos, happily leaning forward. Yet it did not bring into your life a good man. You don’t lean forward anymore and look at the good men, following up and not demanding anything from you. This tends to prove flirting is not what syntonizes us with good men.

    You are afraid you won’t find your special one, but it is not related to scars and flirting.

    Surrender.

    When you feel it is the right time, the right circumstances and the right man, and the man leads you to sex, let him lead.
    Surrender, it feels delicious.
    Don’t get into his mind, judging yourself ugly or not good enough.
    Surrender to his own judgment. He is aroused because he wants you.
    As simple as.
    It is none of your business to judge that he has a real bad taste and if you were the man, you would not be aroused by your body or something. That’s not real, because you are not the man and you don’t know what he sees and what he feels and senses and smells and hears that pushes him to want to penetrate you.

    *He might surprise you and kiss you all over during hours and fall in love with your body right there.
    The only way to find out is to surrender and to let HIM be the one who works at taming you before he makes a move.

    *He might also not fall in love with your body.
    Which is a possibility that has always existed, before the cancer and the menopause. It has existed and keeps existing for all of us. Nothing new here.

    And it HAS happened that your body was young and perfect and the man who penetrated you did not love you and it was before the cancer and the menopause.

    And it IS happening for real NOW that better men are dating you, men who know you have had surgery. They know what it means, they have seen documentaries. They know and it does not change their mind. They are working slowly at taming you because they want a relationship, not instant sex.

    Surrender.

    One of them will tame you.
    It takes only one.

    You have more probabilities to be loved NOW than before the cancer and the menopause.
    Not because of cancer or menopause, it is irrelevant, but because now you lean back, you feel your femininity, you learn to surrender, and this syntonizes you with your type of good men you want, the type of men who can love you with the exact body you live in NOW and who will keep loving you while the body you live in keeps morphing along the years…

    xxx



  297.  #298Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Loneplum…so good to see you 🙂

    Elizabeth…you hit the nail on the head…I want to feel freer in a relationship…like ALL things are possible..that life is better with him than without him



  298.  #299Elizabeth on May 30, 2011 at 11:41 am

    291 Jilly

    ” I don’t know if I would have gotten to this point so soon if I had continued to CD…so I don’t regret that at all…I feel like I’ve done it the best way for me…”

    That’s good, Jilly. I’m glad you don’t regret it.

    🙂
    xoxo



  299.  #300Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 11:47 am

    RE 297 Ooohh Loneplum I almost get orgasm just reading your writing. It feels so soothing and so exotic. I feel so safe with your presence. Thank you even though that was written to Rosa. Wish I had you here in real life, I would take you to all my dates.



  300.  #301Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Jilly/Elizabeth I wonder if space could do that? I wonder if Jilly has “lost herself in the relationship”?



  301.  #302Jilly on May 30, 2011 at 11:57 am

    FW…perhaps there is some truth to that…we actually don’t see each other that much (this weekend is the most time we’ve spent together)..he does 3 overnights a week.. so if I’m losing myself already then…yikes…but kinda feels like I do need more space.. we will probably do our own thing today/tonight and Ill see how I feel in a few days of time away…

    ok…I’m off to get ready for the day 🙂

    I feel better..clearer…life is going to work out..I don’t feel so heavy

    I do have a drama queen in me for sure! 🙂
    and I love her!



  302.  #303Mel on May 30, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    So hard to motivate myself to do anything today. I feel like I have lead boots on and I’m trying to cross a river. Everything feels like an enormous effort. My body and brain are SO exhausted.



  303.  #304flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    so i managed to combine outfit , dunno why so hard today ..guess its the cold and rain , not summer anymore

    it will feel weird know, and im sure ill look him at him with big question mark or something , grr last time i wasnt jelous if he danced with others and had good time , today it feels like opposite



  304.  #305flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    so i managed to combine outfit , dunno why so hard today ..guess its the cold and rain , not summer anymore

    it will feel weird know, and im sure ill look him at him with big question mark or something , grr last time i wast jealous if he danced with others and had good time , today it feels like opposite



  305.  #306Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Flower –

    I think your disconnect happened early.

    First, by you initiating contact with the thank you text…

    I assume you told him thank you when you got out the car… That is enough.

    This initiating on your part seemed to set off unconscious stuff about wanting stuff.. Ie got you feeling ‘invested’

    If there was no investment, it would be ok.

    Then the Big disconnect happened here:

    him:haha i am kind to everone…its what homans r meant to be

    me: i just felt like saying

    Here you went out of your ferlings and responded defensively. (because you were already invested, his answer wasn’t enough for you to get back on your thank you, and you felt bad – this all unconscious)

    Instead, go to your body and notice how you’re feeling:

    You can say:

    “ohh, that feels kinda bad… I feel unspecial”

    Or

    “wow… I notice I’m feeling defensive”

    Once the disconnect happened you experienced lots of nit feeling good stiff because he didn’t seem to be giving to you, but all this was because of expectations because of your initiating

    Hope this helps clarify sone stuff… Sorry if it triggers uncomfortable feelings…



  306.  #307Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Jilly – thanks… I feel smily that you like it 🙂



  307.  #308flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    thanx Daria

    im glad u said

    how do i get out and change something in this relation



  308.  #309Femininewoman on May 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    RE 303 That’s understandable Mel. I would suggest taking a long relaxing bath with scents, candles, wine etc and try taking your mind off everything. Would be good if you had some relaxing music too.



  309.  #310Elizabeth on May 30, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    301: Femininewoman says:

    “Jilly/Elizabeth I wonder if space could do that? I wonder if Jilly has “lost herself in the relationship”?”

    Hi FW 🙂
    Losing oneself in the relationship can happen so, so easily, even after commitment/marriage.

    Perhaps sometimes space is appropriate, and it’s equally good to practice not being lost in the relationship without space.

    Jilly would be the one to determine which is the one that would be best for her circumstances right now.
    🙂

    xoxo



  310.  #311Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Flower – let me know if this is too boy and blunt for you and I’ll stop trying to tech abd talk to you in boy voice.

    Here’s what I would responded if I got the responses you did

    then after he gave me lift home i txted him

    i sent ‘thank u’ a while after i got home

    and he said :for what ???nt done nything

    me: for being kind, u gave me lift

    him:haha i am kind to everone…its what homans r meant to be

    me: i just felt like saying
    ME: Oh :(. I feel unspecial now

    him:ok

    me:now feeling weird tho as if questioned
    ME: ( nothing). Or… Wow… I’m feeling a little disconnect

    him:then enjoy yr weird feeling..all in yr own head

    me:it doesnt feel gd to be attacked
    ME: ouch :(. That felt bad… I’m feeling defensive

    him:whatever..dont bore me…nobody attacked u ..go and ceate ur own drama..dont invite me to yr daydreaming..bye

    me:i feel yr anger thank u(this was sent same time as his
    line)

    him:haha anger haha stp dreaming drama..no reason for anger in my life…

    me: its ok u have every right in the world to talk to me like this but it doesnt feel good
    ME : ohh.. This convo doesn’t feel good:(. I don’t want to fight you… I’m feeling sad

    him:as i said create yr own drama, dont invit me to yr drama party..offlod yr thoughts somewhere else.stop writting

    me: u dont understand its feeling not thought just expressed
    ME: (nothing – as he’s telling me stop writing). Or Ouch

    him:ok enjoy yr drama feeling of nothing..find a man and move on

    me:yes id feel better cooking dinner now than have this conversation
    ME : ouch this feels bad 🙁

    him: yes agreed go

    me:i feel awful and upset
    Bye
    ME: (nOthing)

    him:good for u ..enjoy that drama feeling..

    me:feelings r to be experienced hether nice or not
    ME : I’m feeling misunderstood and defensive… I want to feel good communicating again, what do you think we can do to make it easier?

    Really glad to see you are practicing the feeling messages. It will get easier, hope this helps

    I am feeling unsure, let me know if my boy voice stiff is not helpful



  311.  #312Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Flower – how to change:

    First of all give yourself big hugs for practicing! And for coming here.

    Hugs from me too!

    This is what practicing is like, we all do it and make mistakes too.

    I think a Big thing is to lean back, don’t text him first.

    Another thing is assume he’s always coming from a loving place and any icky feeling words are the results of triggers, not him not loving you. Imagine you two ate on the same team, the team of loving you.

    Then, notice how you feel after each and every time he speaks or communicates with you:

    Do a big ‘Wow!”. ” I feel….”

    And check you body, shoulders – releas them, tummy release it, pelvis vagina thighs area release it…

    Notice how you are feeling, notice what sadness, anger, fear feel like so you can share that

    You can also share the direct body stuff like… I feel tight in my tummy reading that

    ….
    Each of those 3 things will make a huge difference!



  312.  #313flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    thanx daria

    yeah never used feelign msgs with guys , its hard when i like this guy, with guys i dont its easy

    so what do i do when he comes says hi ..well i know ill lean back as usual and let him come to me and say it



  313.  #314Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Flower – do you want to practice? I’ll be a man texting you, and you text back and we’ll tweak

    Darius: hi flower, it was nice seeing you earlier today



  314.  #315flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    omg lol i dont think hes gonna say that !



  315.  #316Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Hehe I figured that, but other men might…

    What do u think he’s gonna say?



  316.  #317flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    yeah friend of his that i saw today before seeing him might say the line u said 😉

    he might jut come and say hi how are u or osmething, since its party he wont go into deep stuff , but might give me a look that would mean its about the convo we had earlier
    or he might be spot on this thing and will go mind game and say ‘how u feel?’



  317.  #318Daria on May 30, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Ok, let’s just start with this then:

    Man: hi flower, how are you?



  318.  #319flower on May 30, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    hello, good

    (or i ve said to him ‘it feels good to c u ‘ even today so dont wanna sound the same..)



  319.  #320Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Ok… Now let’s tweak.

    You just had this awful feeling exchange with him. How do you really feel?

    Wrote it here and then we’ll put it in words to say him



  320.  #321flower on May 30, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    well…the thing is when he comes over i feel good
    but about that convo and everything..i dunno…clinch in stomach kind of thing



  321.  #322Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Ok good… So we want to share the truth as best and clearly as we can

    So how about

    Wow, um, I feel… Kinda mixed up. It feels awesome to see you again, and …I’m feeling kinda afraid after our text thing



  322.  #323Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Does that sound kinda like what you feel? Afraid? Or is it more angry or sad



  323.  #324flower on May 30, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    wow..i wish i could express like u do daria

    i dont think i feel angry , afraid that he will make me feel bad more and id like him to make me feel good



  324.  #325Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Flower – you will get this, in your own words, it just takes practice!

    Ok so how would you express that whole truth to him

    I’ll start again

    Him: hi flower, how are you?



  325.  #326Daria on May 30, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I want to share that when I feel intense about a man, I make mistakes all the time too! And I say ‘imfine’ and avoid saying how I feel, until I catch myself and get brave to express the truth

    It gets easier though!



  326.  #327flower on May 30, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    i mean this u wrote is perfect, just i would start with the pleasing him part like ‘ it feels awsome to c u again but i feel mixed up’

    so yr way is better



  327.  #328Daria on May 30, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Flower, ok… That’s not pleasing him

    It’s appreciating,

    no focus on pleasing him please

    Ok so what you wrote is wonderful! Can you feel the authenticity in that? Let’s keep going

    Him: hi flower, how are you?

    You: it feels awsome to c u again but i feel mixed up

    Him: oh! What do u feel mixed up about?



  328.  #329flower on May 30, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Ok so I say bout our txt chat then he. Asks why I say because I felt misunderstood and disconnected



  329.  #330LonePlum on May 30, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Flower

    Are you the flower who wrote the posts 13 and 14 on this previous thread?
    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/communication/how-to-talk-to-a-man/#comments

    If so, I posted to you there.
    Here I am pasting my comment to you from last week.

    251: LonePlum says:

    13: flower

    I am not sure I understand your post.
    I’ll tell you what I read in it and you’ll tell me if it works for you.

    There is this man you went out with last year, you wish to be his girl friend.

    You asked him if he had any kid, he said he used to want kids in the past, but now he does not want any and he does not have any.

    You told him you want a relationship.
    He said he is not interested he only wants to stay friend.

    You broke up.

    As a friend, he kept contacting you along the months, but it is difficult for you because when you hear from him you forget he only wants the friendship.
    Your emotions make it look like “he comes back”.

    But it finally feels like friends again, so you tell him feeling messages, and he still says he is not interested, he wants to keep it as friends.
    When you tell him you want a relationship, you call that a break up.

    Last time you told him you want a relationship was last week and since then you have leant back totally.

    2 days ago, you saw him in the street. With him you saw another man and a baby.
    You did not ask who the father of the child was.
    You assume it is his, but you don’t know for sure
    Assuming it is his child got you angry.

    He acted friendly to you, he made the child wave at you.
    In fact, he did not hide the child at all when he saw you, he used the child to happily attract your attention.
    He made her wave at you until you saw them.
    You did not feel happy like he might have expected. You told him you felt angry.

    The child was mixed race and the other man was black, and your friend told you he has no kid, yet you assumed the child is your friend’s child and he is a liar.

    He was happily waving at you to attract your attention and you told him you feel angry.
    He laughed in an uncomfy way.
    It is possible he did not get why you are angry, he must have been searching in his memory what he did to you last time he met you. Or he might have been busy in his mind wondering if you are angry because he does not want to be your boy friend.

    You did not ask who the father of the child is, instead you asked where the mother was.

    He told you she was home. Which says nothing about who the father is or who the mother is.
    It only says this child has a mother who is home.
    His answer might be an honest innocent answer to the word “where”
    “Where is she?” “home”

    Or

    He might have understood you were fishing for info…

    It is possible he was upset or amused by your reaction and he played with the words “she is home” knowing it is not what you really want to know.

    It might have been his way to tell you “Ask honestly if she is mine, if that’s what you want to know”

    You came back home very upset and you wrote the post here.

    Your post 14 asks what to do next time you see him.

    Well on his side the man is only a friend and on your side he is a man you have feelings for.
    If it hurts too much, the best is to not speak to him again. Cut him out of your life and date at least 3 other men.
    Not for the child issue, but because he has proven in a year time he is not interested in romance and it is hurting you.

    If you do speak to him again, then I would ask him honestly who the child’s father is.
    I would get that doubt out of the road:

    you_ “That was a gorgeous child you were with, the other day. Who’s the father?”
    him_ “The man I was with. Why?”
    you_ “ She looks like you. I saw you happy waving with her, I came to think she could be yours. I felt upset. I am glad I asked you today. ”

    or

    him_ ”I am her father. Why?”
    you _ “She looks like you. I feel upset because you told me you had no kids. I don’t like untruth about parenthood. I don’t see the point. It feels ridiculous.”

    xxx
    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 8:30am

    xxx



  330.  #331Daria on May 30, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Flower – we want to keep responding with authenticity amd feelings to create intimacy

    ’bout our text chat’ is too business, there’s no ferlings or connection there

    So try checking how you feel, you want to get away from answering any question directly – like a man – and instead get flowery and feelingy

    Ex:

    Him: oh. What do you feel mixed up about?

    You: oh, wow.. I feel scared to talk about it…

    ( And I feel glad for a chance to clear the air… I feel bad about the text chat we had … I felt really disconnected after and I’m sorry for my part in that)

    Or … How do you feel being asked what do you feel mixed up about?



  331.  #332Daria on May 30, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Oh wow… I feel good being asked that.. And I feel so scared to talk about it…



  332.  #333Daria on May 30, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    So now you check your body, release your shoulders, tummy, and vagina, breathe into them..,

    tell me in your own words what you actually feel

    Him: oh. What do you feel mixed up about?



  333.  #334Brenda on May 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Subscribing…



  334.  #335Rosa on May 31, 2011 at 3:48 am

    Lone Plum
    “They are working slowly at taming you because they want a relationship, not instant sex.

    Surrender.

    One of them will tame you.
    It takes only one.”

    I just love this thought ..I am re-running it 🙂
    I love to imagine them trying to tame me .

    Thank you for your logical reworking of my thoughts and assumptions LP.

    I am feeling less miserable tonight after a long yoga class. I am just happy to get back there and start loosening up mind and body.

    You are right LP, they wouldnt be dating me unless they wanted to be there with me. Its a wonderful feeling to know its my heart and mind thats attractive and to know that sex is not all I have to offer. That feels very validating .



  335.  #336flower on May 31, 2011 at 4:01 am

    re:251

    to clarify he said it was his kid on the day



  336.  #337flower on May 31, 2011 at 4:12 am

    daria, so he did greet me in the party but then after it didnt even say bye



  337.  #338Femininewoman on May 31, 2011 at 8:49 am

    flower did you read 330 from LP?



  338.  #339flower on May 31, 2011 at 8:55 am

    yeah



  339.  #340Femininewoman on May 31, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Flower we have to be careful to not create fantasy relationships in our minds. Relationships involve two people who verbally work out their team work with each other. At least that is what I believe.



  340.  #341Daria on May 31, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Flower – ok , when he greeted you did you check your body and use a feeling message?



  341.  #342flower on May 31, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    he didnt come over at any point to say a word and then he didnt say bye after party either , had a company of some really short guy his friend to walk me home ..which was at least kind of this guy

    this morning he deleted me form fb friends and i sent him msg and he didnt reply so there , he acts strange , even stranger than me

    this relation became sick , this is not how its meant to be and i dunno if i can ever turn it around , and its a pitty but what can i do …maybe we need to grow over time to each other or i dunno

    ad party was rubbish..so many awful drunk guys trying it on …one of them even wanted to argue that i worked with him a day ago (geez he wouldn’t understand that i even don’t work where he does?!)
    at least some not drunk guy wanted to dance with me ..he was black so pitty i wouldnt be able to date himb ut as black guys have good movements it was cool in a way ..sigh…

    yes i got annoyed in the party ..quite unusual …
    not my fault i aint ugly and paparazzi guys wont leave me alone , and i don’t even wear dresses that dont hide anything, i dress nice ….
    even my ex showed up there and he seemed like fancying me still..though this is werid as he shwoed up after 2 yrs , he won me instantly and then left shortly after…i managed to move on after this guy…no more aquarius men (unless im desperate for the good sex they offer at some point in my life)

    today some idiot even asked me for sex in the middle of town just like that , bright daylight , he came over and asked if i wanted to ahve some fun with him now and if i lived alone …what the f is this??

    why do i attract only ones i don’t want to attract, jsut upsetting



  342.  #343Donut on June 1, 2011 at 3:21 am

    Hi all, New here but have been reading the post and blogs since 2 weeks. I am first amazed how you guys are so wonderful and sincere in sharing your most intimate details… i am overwhelmed with so much of sincerity… It makes me feels like a coward regarding my own feelings 🙁 . I wanted some support if i may ask…. my story is not any different to most.. loved J for 8 years. Spent 7 years driving up 200miles to build a relationship and vice versa. Been asked to marry him. As any relationship… we had our ups and downs but i must say i know he loves me very much… if i ‘lean back and dont row’ he knows instantly something is up… he will start rowing, leaning forward.. things were good as to speak until he decided to move to a diff country all together for a year this Feb 2011. Long distance is killing me.. asked him several times… emails once a day isnt enough to keep a relationship going…. he paid for my ticket to come see him.. he was over the moon to see me.. his parents came to visit us and it went really well… the only thing is i knew something was up deep down.. i couldnt put my finger on it… during the holiday : 3 weeks.. he never initiated any love making… everyday he will give me big hugs.. i approached the topic… anger, fights and all emotions poured out from both parties and no results. Since i am back… went back to again 1 email… if i ring…’ ok i need to go i have to work tomow’… Satd when we are both off i make it a point to ring or log on skype… usually he is not around… when i ask… he will mail to say’ spending time with parents’ I mailed couple of days ago saying.. ‘i am finding this hard’… we need to spend some quality time together.. he didnt respond. So i went ahead and said thats it… broke off after 8 years and finding this very hard to cope with… but i am not going to do anything … i did everything to keep the relationship going.. i feel i am the one keeping it alive cos i love him so much… but when i ask for him to spend time with me.. suddenly the time zone, work parents, his happiness is coming into the big picture. So, i have decided to find the siren within me, look after myself and dont do anything… any comments will be very encouraging
    Donut xxx



  343.  #344Senior Lady Vibe on June 1, 2011 at 5:58 am

    @148: Lilybelle says:
    “He’s ten years older than I. Perhaps I feel concerned that he will be all ‘old’ acting and feeling.”

    You won’t know until you meet with him a time or two. He might not be suited to you or maybe it will be like Hadassah and her guy. He’s a bit older; I encouraged her to give him a chance…now they are getting married… 🙂

    … or you can always say “next” (perhaps just in your head) if it doesn’t work out. Men usually like younger women, so maybe he will be good practice or even become a friend if things don’t go forward in the romance area.

    How old are you? I know, cheeky of me to ask… 😆 but I read your post and wondered who would be in your “peer party.” So tell me please so I can do one for you.

    Re: my soulmate rings… My ring count is still rising; I bought another one last night: 28 — would have been 29 but I gave a little faux aquamarine birthstone to my granddaughter) 😆

    I’d thought about tying the rings onto yarn or a cord as a window hanging but now that I’m collected them I enjoy looking at them this way. They are lined up in a decorated tin with the clear bubble tops showing. It looks like a mini modern art installalation. 😉

    xoxo
    SLV



  344.  #345Senior Lady Vibe on June 1, 2011 at 6:00 am

    @Jilly and @Boomer

    I missed you too! I’m reading some posts… I don’t know if I’m on right thread or if you’ll see this.

    xoxo
    SLV



  345.  #346DE on June 1, 2011 at 6:34 am

    Donut #343:

    Welcome to the blog 🙂

    Most of us get the conversations going on the new post…here is the link
    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/communication/the-foundation-of-how-to-express-yourself-to-a-man-as-an-emotional-creature/#comments

    I suggest to post u comment once more on the new thread as well.

    I admit I felt nuts in my tummy reading u post…:( Are you from the US?

    I too dated someone named J that moved out of the country for one year in February…probably coincidence…

    U are in the right place to get support to make the right decision for yourself…

    warm hugs,



  346.  #347Lilybelle on June 1, 2011 at 6:58 am

    344:

    SLV~ I am 47 so please, have me a peer party! 🙂

    Would you also set a date for me? For something wonderful on the calendar?

    I am seeing OlderDude on Thursday night. His sense of humor is fabulous, he enjoys my “vibe”, and like you said, I can always say “next” if necessary.

    Thank you for the encouragement, I am so happy to see you. Your soulmate ring “art” sounds beautiful and is a wonderful idea.

    Hugs~

    Lilybelle.



  347.  #348flower on June 5, 2011 at 2:13 am

    so this guy still says hello, smiles , but wont come even have a chat or dance or say bye , its annoying me and id love to jsut grab him and shake him

    so Daria no even practicing the feeling messages with him soon then unless im supposed to go to him and tell him but i wanna be the only woman that doesn’t jump on him and he has millions who jump on him all the time

    meanwhile his friend seems to be falling for me and i feel scared and icky , i don’t want to hurt this guy , jeez , always my problem, can ‘play’ it so well if im not interested in guy physically (without actually playing u know) it jsut happens but not with the one i like…why the liking him stops my inner feelings and behaving like with others

    i hate this



  348.  #349flower on June 10, 2011 at 5:22 am

    daria so i used the feeling messages now and he at least tlaks that he doesnt consdier em friend and got to the point when eh says ive good heart and good person but offer to the wrong person and hes telling me to move on ….. , but it feels good to have used feelings and at least hav enormal conversation with him eventually

    though i dunno what to reply to this



  349.  #350flower on June 10, 2011 at 5:25 am

    so thats what i wrote to him