Love and Sex – Hoping For Re-Commitment #2

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How does sex work in a relationship? How can you get the most pleasure, the most enjoyment, the most learning, the deepest intimacy, the most help for the forwad moving of your relationship – out of the experience of sex?

The way to go here is to USE sex to practice INTIMACY.

That means you have to feel safe.

You have to feel safe and open, so HE’LL feel safe and open.

You have to feel expressive and you have to surrender to yourself in his presence.


You can’t do this unless you feel safe.

The “hard” thing her is – even if you actually ARE safe with him (he’s actually a good, sensitive, caring, masculine energy man) – you may not feel safe withYOU (because there’s so much of you you don’t know, don’t acknowledge, don’t love) – and so no matter how great he is, you won’t feel safe enough to really open up in his presence.

The way out of this is practice.

Practice with whoever you’re with, wherever you are.

And this is the only reasonable rationale for having sex in an uncommited relationship where you’re not in love, exclusive, or any of the other things we hold important for sex to feel “safe.”

If you can find a situation with a “safe” man (to the best of your knowledge) – and you can USE your experience of sex in that situation to practice opening yourself up – that’s great (I’ve had that a couple of times in my life, and it was stupendous …)!

AND – it’s very, very rare.

Because when you practice openingu p with a man you don’t “love” – all of a sudden you start to love him. It’s because intimacy makes love.

Because love isn’t about HIM – it’s about YOU – and so if you are finally, blissfully able to express yourself without holding back and feel safe and loved in the presence of a man (this is why we fall in love with our therapists) – you will feel LOVE for him!!!

If you’re just going through the motions of physical sex – there’s no gain for you here. There’s nothing to learn. It becomes about hoping HE will feel something through the sex – and, yes, he will – if that’s the kind of man he is – AND if YOU are opening up to him and he CARES about you – but he just can’t do this intimacy thing by HIMSELF!!!

And if you are opening up and sharing yourself with a man who does not care – who is not capable of holding the space for you to be intimate with him, who is NOT SAFE – THIS is where we women get into trouble.

The reason we do this thing – this opening up with a man who is NOT SAFE, who does NOT CARE…is that — to us, he IS safe!!

Meaning – he CANNOT do intimacy.

A man who cannot do intimacy – when we pick this up subconsciously (if we are sufficiently afraid of intimacy and of being who we are and loving all the dark parts of ourselves along with the light parts) – we feel safe.

We feel safe from scary intimacy.

And so we let go and surrender to the WRONG SITUATION.

The one that actually PROMISES – distance!!

Two people who require a certain amount of emotional distance from each other in order to feel safe from all the inner feelings they wish to not experience will do nearly anything to maintain that distance.

When one opens up, the other closes down.

This is why baby-steps are CRUCIAL.

You go first.

Love, Rori

Continuing in next post…#3

Posted in


  1.  #1Tina on May 31, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    oh my i have to re read.

  2.  #2Tina on May 31, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    I have a dumb question, what does it mean to open up to do intimacy? will do nearly anything to maintain distance, distance in communication? distance in my head? I like distance, distance feels like space to me, my space. What is the differance between my space and distance. ok now im confused.

  3.  #3mary on May 31, 2010 at 1:48 pm


    i’m reading this and just wondering things.

    where is that idea of sex = sex, if i should open myself to a guy i don’t love, and then start to love him?

    loving him because i’m having sex with him is what i don’t want.

    i already have that problem without having sex! my heart is going crazy here! add sex and i’m sunk.

    i wonder if i have issues with intimacy? i’ve had a few guys now who refused to be close. and what would those baby steps be?

  4.  #4Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Mary, I always love the men I have sex with, but I don’t “fall in love” with them, and don’t end up needing a relationship with them.

  5.  #5Daria on May 31, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    EFT with –

    “All of my [xxx] they flow out
    out of my body, out of my house,
    out of my life, so wonderful,
    all of my [xxx] I now let you go!”

    and teach it to become

    “All of my [fear]
    I now let you go,
    soften and flow,
    soften and flow!”

    and track the feelings in the body and out of it while tapping on each point

  6.  #6Tina on May 31, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Who to trust, when to trust. I’ve learned very well not to trust ANYONE. Anyone except myself, I work on a “need to know” basis, even then, blah! gotta go read some more. Fear of intimacy blah! who needs it, it sucks!.

  7.  #7Daria on May 31, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Tina –

    all of my fear of intimacy

    i now let you go

    soften and flow

    soften and flow!


  8.  #8Katie on May 31, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Hey Ladies – I’d really love to have some help with this feeling message I am trying to write to my ex. He’s turned a corner I think or thought then he’s withdrawn again. So here goes:

    “I feel a need/want to be understood. Why?
    Because I like to be clear and to not be clear does not feel good to me.

    There was a moment in your kitchen about 3 weeks ago – a hug freely given, warm and spontaneous, defences came down and then a kiss, which felt close and warm, I think it felt the same for you, though I can’t assume. It just seemed to happen.

    I still feel affection, I still feel attraction. I feel confused.
    What do you think?”

    Then – I send it as a text message? Or do I go say it in person. Or do I just walk away and see if he gets in touch – I don’t know what to do – help!!

  9.  #9Jeannette on May 31, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Katie, does it feel like over functioning? Go way into yourself and ask should I go to him here or should he come to me?

  10.  #10Tina on May 31, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Thank you Daria, I will practice this today 🙂

  11.  #11Karen on May 31, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    hi Rori, thanks for your blog entries for my question. I have to reread them and have them sink in and will respond to you later.

  12.  #12Sweetpea on May 31, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Wow! There’s a lot to absorb there. I’m feeling enlightened. What you say here makes a lot of sense to me about some of the choices I have made. I’ve felt afraid of my emotions for a very long time and to understand that that is the reason I’ve attracted men who take me on “emotional roller coaster rides” makes me feel ashamed. But thankful that I have now found the resources to stop doing this to myself!

    Thank you so much Rori! This really resonates with me. Even the part about practicing opening up. Although I feel afraid to try this until I get a little further on my journey of self-discovery, self-love and open, soft strength.

  13.  #13Sweetpea on May 31, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    So does this mean that men CAN become emotionally attached by having sex? We just can’t count on it, right. Because it takes them much, much longer?

  14.  #14Sweetpea on May 31, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    i already have that problem without having sex! my heart is going crazy here! add sex and i’m sunk.

    Mary – my take on it is that the baby steps are the things that Rori teaches – leaning back, etc. I feel that once we have gotten some of these lessons under our belt and gotten good at them, that would be the time to practice opening up to intimacy through sex.

    I, personally, would have to have done all of the other steps with a man before I would feel safe to enough open up to him during sex.

    I actually did try opening up during sex to the guy I was seeing when I first found Rori’s book. The sensual meditation… I tried it on my own a few times, then tried just opening up when I was intimate with him. It really was AMAZING! The only problem is that it scared me so bad that I ended the relationship because I was feeling overwhelmed and like I was going to go out of control and ruin everything like I’ve done in the past. Of course, I KNOW I have intimacy issues – that’s the reason I’m here. So it may be different for you.

  15.  #15aprilshowers on May 31, 2010 at 6:30 pm


    I love writing power speeches. I hope this helps. I’d tweak it like this:

    “I feel confused. I feel unclear.

    When we hugged and kissed a few weeks ago in your kitchen, I felt so close. I felt connected.

    I still feel attracted to you.

    I don’t want __________(fill in the blank – it wasn’t clear to me from your post what you wanted/didn’t want)

    What do you think?”

    I’d just stick to Rori’s format: “I feel…I don’t want…What do you think?” Her framework feels great to me.

    Lastly, every single time I have leaned forward in any way with a man, he (lover, stranger, friend, father, etc) has been distant and dismissive and I’ve felt icky and needy.

    Every time I lean back, miracles LITERALLY happen. I’d wait for the ex to come my way. I wouldn’t text, call or send a messenger pigeon to beckon him to me.

    Don’t worry….he’ll come.

  16.  #16tallgirl10 on May 31, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    I feel freaked out about leaning back.

    Still upset about not hearing from text guy. I am proud that I am no longer responding in anger…..

  17.  #17Lizzie on May 31, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    This is very interesting and so timely – can we discuss what is “surrender to yourself”?

    it is” in my head” because of a comment from a very close man-friend who asked if I believed it possible for me to “surrender to myself and to be open to the love of a man”

    Since I found myself married to a gay man for 17 years – and struggled that entire time with the total lack of male energy, total lack of intimacy and many years without sex, I consider myself like a total beginner – at 50!!.

    I have just begun to date terrific guy and am very sensitive to not wanting to push him away. I have been looking after myself, playing golf, circle dating, and he leans into me. It is so lovely! On our third date, we somehow talked about feeling wonderful and that was what we were desiring to experience in a relationship. I hadn’t heard from him for a few days but yesterday evening he sent a sweet little note to which I responded that I was rushing off to pick up my daughter from a swim meet as she thought she had broken a toe. Later in the evening, I had another note from him asking the prognosis on the foot. I was just blown away – I was feeling a rush of caring from him and sent back a note that ended with “I feel your tender care – so touching for me. Thank you”. Right away I got another message asking that I keep in touch and let him know how she is doing.

    I was overwhelmed with the feeling of care from him – tears welled up and my heart was way up in my chest – these are such unfamiliar feelings for me.

    so, what does opening up really feel like? I want to open up to receive him.

  18.  #18Simply Shannon on May 31, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    I feel so triggered by talk of sex. So much of my life was about having sex FOR the guy and not taking care of myself, NOT feeling emotionally safe. Yes, it felt good in the moment (some times) but it was completely about DISTANCING myself from intimacy. No way did I want any of those guys to really know the real me.

    I feel so frustrated by women (and this used to be me) having sex like it means nothing or that they couldn’t help themselves. “I saw him again and I couldn’t help myself… we had sex”. Gosh. I just wants to scream. I want to say “he’s already gone” when a girl talks about that. A man does not respect me or love me just because he is having sex with me.

    Can we start a movement that says the babystep is to NOT have sex? To wait UNTIL the girl (me) feels safe. I don’t want to experiment again with casual sex. I’m feeling wary here but I don’t think Rori means to experiment with casual sex to heal my fear of intimacy.

    I didn’t understand how much my body responded and became addicted to a man when I was having sex with him. Once I’m having sex, I’m not paying attention to the relationship. All of a sudden, it becomes about the sex. And then months down the line, when the hotness wears off, I’m thinking “whoa… who are you?”

    I feel really frustrated by this tossing of pearls before swine. Actually, I feel frustrated because I don’t know how to communicate this is a viable way to young women. I’m feeling called to do this, like this may be my life’s purpose, and I don’t know how to do it.

    Just the thought of casual sex makes me want to scream!!! GRRRR. I feel angry and frustrated!!!

  19.  #19Sweetpea on May 31, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Tallgirl – I’ve been practicing leaning back for just a couple of months now. I don’t feel as freaked out as I used to. I can TOTALLY identify with being proud of yourself for not reacting in anger. I think we need to acknowledge ourselves for any progress we make. It is definitely something to be proud of. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been trying to lean back for long before I found these tools and would ultimately end up reacting in anger and totally push the guy away. It feels so good to me to have made any progress in this area at all. Do you feel like you are less freaked out now than when you started leaning back?

    I was always afraid that if I didn’t keep reminding him that I was “here” he would forget about me. I feel sad about that. It feels good to write it here though – to acknowledge that it was fear that was driving me. It feels better to let them come to me now. Although I can’t say I’m as good about it as I would like to be.

  20.  #20Sweetpea on May 31, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Lizzie – I’m new here, but wanted to say: I feel happy for you! I feel ecstatic for you!

  21.  #21aprilshowers on May 31, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    “I was always afraid that if I didn’t keep reminding him that I was “here” he would forget about me.” – Sweetpea

    OMG! I feel so gotten! I feel so understood. You just summed up my whole dating life before I found Rori’s tools.

    That’s why I called and called and asked guys out and rubbed their backs and cooked for them and drove and wrote them poems and letters. I was so insignificant and so forgetable that if I didn’t constantly remind them I was there, they would literally forget I existed.

    I was a virgin for a long time, until I was 26. So, I feel triggered with this sex talk too. I feel like I overdid other actions (ie. calling, driving, etc.) since I wasn’t going to give them any.

    Now, 10 years later, I realize that abstinence was my way completely shutting down intimacy. I didn’t let them in physically. I didn’t let them in physically. Instead, I ran around begging them not to forget me. It feels totally crazy now!

    The craziest part is, nearly every guy came back some time later telling me how absolutely unforgetable I was.

  22.  #22aprilshowers on May 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I feel free having shared this with you, Ladies. I feel relieved. Whew! I feel like a burden was lifted.

    I felt so sad always expecting to be forgotten. How sad! I feel so much more at peace.

  23.  #23Lizzie on May 31, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    sweetpea and aprilshowers – thank you so much! I had no idea – being married to a gay guy who was in the closet for all his life until he flipped out at 45… but that is about him, not me….you hit the nail on the head! I felt completely invisible, forgotten, unimportant, unconnected, of no value… oh my god…I am quivering like I am holding back tears… and now I have this wonderful man who just showed me some care and I am so overwhelmed…I am feeling like I am taking a burden off my shoulders. Is this what it feels like to be set free???

  24.  #24Lizzie on May 31, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    married to a gay guy –
    I felt – forgotten
    un wanted
    un loved
    un happy
    no joy
    like a stone
    a hard snow bank at minus 25
    like a stone sinking into an black abys of nothingness
    a dark cold lake
    northern Canada in November
    so alone
    soooo alone
    soooooooo misunderstood
    un feeling
    sick to my stomach
    without voice
    unable to love anyone else
    sad, oh so terribly sad, I felt nothingness
    lacking of humaness
    a think living in my head

    and now I am free!

  25.  #25Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Shannon, I feel very appreciative of what you wrote.

    I always have the same experience you described here: “Once I’m having sex, I’m not paying attention to the relationship. All of a sudden, it becomes about the sex. And then months down the line, when the hotness wears off, I’m thinking “whoa… who are you?””

    For me, the sex is always very intimate, and I do open myself to the guy, and I am emotionally vulnerable and free with him and feel safe . . .

    but, because the relationship then becomes all about the sexual intimacy, all the other aspects of intimacy get neglected and the relationship becomes unsatisfying for me. . .

    While at the same time, HE falls in love with ME because I’m being so intimate and vulnerable during sex!

    And then he is shocked and heartbroken to find out that I don’t feel the same way about him.

    I have never had that experience women talk about where a guy dumps you after you sleep with him.

  26.  #26Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    “I don’t think Rori means to experiment with casual sex to heal my fear of intimacy.”

    I don’t think she means that, either. I think she’s saying that if you’re gonna have sex, have it with a man you feel emotionally safe with so that you can practice truly opening yourself up to a man in an intimate way . . . not “casual sex” but “intimate sex.”

    I’m with you though, I’m leaning strongly toward NOT having sex until I’m with the man I’m marrying.

  27.  #27Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    “Actually, I feel frustrated because I don’t know how to communicate this is a viable way to young women. I’m feeling called to do this, like this may be my life’s purpose, and I don’t know how to do it.”

    I feel good hearing where your heart is on this.

    There are so many different opinions and perspectives on this topic, and I feel good about yours. 🙂

  28.  #28Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    The men must be feeling refreshed from the long weekend — my inbox is loaded with emails from interesting new men from match!

  29.  #29Lucy on May 31, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Okay, I’m feeling some major EWWW feelings with this guy’s profile:

    “I would be lying if I said that kids don’t matter. It is better if you don’t have kids (or if they’re grown and gone). I will never love them as you do. Would a dishonest statement here be better? Any man who tells you different is full of it.”

    “I’m a sweetheart, but I have a raunchy mouth. (Mostly for fun).”

    “Don’t try to be clever in your profile and say that you seek a man who is “financially secure.”

    “Financially secure” is a code phrase that means you want someone to support you, rather than love you. Just come out and say it instead! You may find someone who is willing to make that deal with you, but don’t ever get old or heavy or you’ll be traded in. That’s how financial transactions work, Dear.”


  30.  #30Lizzie on May 31, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Lucy, sadly, this guy is right. He is really honest. And I wouldn’t be on his list – 2 young kids and I don’t like a raunchy mouth -LOL!!
    It is the ones who have no shirts on and big bellies – OMG! I want to post the following on my profile (although I am on hide right now)… if you kindly gentleman, would stand up, take your shirt off, and look straight down. What do you see? If you see flesh that is not your very special manly bits – I don’t wish to play with you because most likely you can’t see yourself play either and that is just no fun!

    HA HA! now then lets see if the guys actually get-it!

  31.  #31Brenda on May 31, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    I met one of the Sirens tonight!!! Yay! Lucy and I met and talked several hours, and it was wonderful!

    She showed me a picture of TN Man and whew!!! He is one of the most handsome, drop-dead gorgeous men I’ve ever looked at!! I recently saw Matt Damon on the front of a magazine as the world’s sexiest man alive. Noway! He is like average next to TN Man! TN Man has character, maturity, and absolutely sexy handsome looks! No wonder Lucy is so attracted to him!

    I would love to meet all of you! I felt jealous when I realized a few of you live in Dallas, TX! Recently Siena and I were emailing and we thot how cool it would be if Rori had a seminar geared for us on Siren Island! We could all attend and meet! Wouldn’t that be awesome?! How do you feel about that, Rori?

  32.  #32Brenda on May 31, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Alicia, RE: #100 on the last string…Yes, I’m in PA. I am pretty sure the Delilah Show is nationwide. I love listening to Delilah! No one ever responded bout my idea for us to all write in to Delilah to feature Rori and/or to listen to her CDs herself in order to direct perplexed listeners to Rori instead of to “He Just Ain’t that into You”. Let’s promote Rori! She’s awesome!

  33.  #33Brenda on May 31, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Ankita, I read that gushy message that one guy wrote you who barely knew you. It feels fake to me. A friend of mine got piles of emails comparable to that, and some were repeats of each other. He turned out to be a scammer from Africa who started to beg her for money for his dying daughter!

  34.  #34Rori Raye on May 31, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Brenda – It would be incredibly cool to meet you all…I’ll think about it…though I haven’t budged from home in a very long time….Love, Rori

  35.  #35Rori Raye on May 31, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    april showers…thank you…this is so profound…I’m saving it to share somewhere else…I think it’s incredibly helpful…Love, Rori

  36.  #36Rori Raye on May 31, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    lizzie – you sound wonderful – and opening up is exactly what you’re doing. The Feeling Messages are doing it FOR you…just keep using them…the process of feeling what you feel and saying what you feel is and will continue to open you majestically. Love, Rori

  37.  #37Rori Raye on May 31, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    Daria – Just lovely….Rori

  38.  #38Katie on June 1, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Thanks Jeanette and Aprilshowers….Firstly yes, you are right.

    I feel uncomfortable with overfunctioning and that’s what I feel if I think about contacting him.

    So I am leaving it/him alone just now and ‘forgetting’ about the hugs and kisses incident. I don’t know how he feels, but glad it happenned, even though he’s acting dissmissive and ‘not sure’ with me since.

    Aprilshowers – I love the simple way you’ve tweaked the words around in my feeling message, thanks. I will maybe wait a few more days and see if I am going to contact him – if it feels right to do so.

  39.  #39tallgirl10 on June 1, 2010 at 6:11 am

    I feel upset, anxious and afraid.

    I use this as a place to be a journal.

    Text man texted me while I was on vacation. He did not realize I was going away, and I was so proud that I did not get upset or angry that he did not ask my out before I left. I even got a chance to use some good feeling messages. Then it turned into smack talking about the Yankees and a bet. I followed up on my victory (as my guy friend I had to), and we went back and forth, and then I did not respond to his last text.

    I was on vacation, and he knew that. I had hoped for a welcome home or a when are you coming home etc.

    Last contact was on Thursday.

    Why do I feel like I was supposed to respond to him text? Even if I was on vacation and we had been in a lot of contact before that?

    Please help me do nothing.

  40.  #40tallgirl10 on June 1, 2010 at 6:21 am


    Right now I am feeling very upset, but know if I contacted him, I would feel worse.

    I just wish I did not feel like I should remind him I am home, as if he can’t ask or he knows.

    This all feels very icky for me. But generally, I have never really leaned forward other than having unrealistic expectations at the beginning. I want an automatic relationship, and clearly, that does not work.

    It is major progress for me not to turn off to him when he does not do what I want him to do. So I guess that is really good progress.

    I did more work on my feeling messages. Over the last week of our contact, I used three very plainly stated. One was about how he makes me feel, and the other two about my vacation. Then we moved into smack talk.

    This was the last stream, but there had been about 5 each initiated by him before. He asked about my vacation and how I was doing. Now I feel like I was leaning forward following up, but I did that on the advise from my guy friend who said the victor must always follow up. I purposely did not tell him he owed me a drink.

    Me – what a shame about your crushing defeat. I am sure it will sting less over that cold beverage, and it is never too late to cone on over here to the dark side

    Him – It’s unbelievable how we can’t beat your guys! They interviewed giuliani last night and he’s like I don’t know why we always win, the twins are good and there are crappy teams that give us a lot of trouble

    Him – also, you will never see me doing the YMCA at the baseball game so I just can’t be a yankees fan. That’s just lame.

    Me – The twins have way more heart and way less ego for sure, but I would pay big money to see you in that big gay Indian costume ;-). Ok, off to nurse my vacation induced mid-week hangover.

    Him – Only if you wear leather chaps and jacket – no shirt – will I dress up as an Indian. Tough week, have a bloody mary for me.

    Then nothing! What did I do wrong?

  41.  #41Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 7:49 am

    Rori, Maybe most of us could meet right in Los Angeles, CA if you had a seminar just for us on the blog! It would be a long trip for some of us, yes, but who wouldn’t want a vacation in California?! I’ve dreamed of it all my life!

  42.  #42Rachel on June 1, 2010 at 9:57 am


    It doesn’t sound like you did anything wrong. This happens to me a lot too. We’ll be bantering back and forth, having great fun, and then as soon as I stop… it stops. I hate that!

    I haven’t found a good solution except to get back on my horse and remember that if a man isn’t in front of me, he’s invisible. And he always eventually comes back around.

    Remember that the emotional energy you put into this does create a vibe that he can feel so try to turn your energy toward yourself and doing some fun things.

    Hugs… I know how it feels to want to be remembered and sought out! I always struggle with wanting to “remind” him that I’m here. ugh!

    Let’s be strong and lean back together!

  43.  #43Siena on June 1, 2010 at 10:16 am

    I’m with Brenda! Spa day retreat with Rori! (haha, do you like how I threw ‘spa’ in there?)

    I need a tool for dealing with the guilt I feel about dating 3 when I really am “feeling” 1. I feel dishonest going out tonight with a new CD while my main CD is out of town. It feels like sneaking around, which of course I know it’s not.

    And I understand how it’s the best thing for all involved.

    But how do I work through those guilty feelings?

  44.  #44Siena on June 1, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Tallgirl, you’re doing great! You did nothing wrong, except you are focusing on it! Can you make a date tonight or tomorrow night with another guy? Just someone to make you feel good for a little bit so that it gives you emotional strength to work through your stuff with text man?

    “I want an automatic relationship, and clearly, that does not work.”

    That’s SOOOO me too! Which is another reason CD works so brilliantly – because it’s a full month or 6 weeks of dating someone before I even realize that I AM dating them!

    Hang in there and keep doing what you’re doing! You’re being triggered, which is healing old stuff. And you’re sticking it out, allowing yourself to be triggered, which means that you WILL work it out! Brava to you!

  45.  #45Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Hi Siena! I like the “spa” you sneaked in there! Yeah!

    Have you told your other men you are getting to know several men? I figure once I tell a man I am going to date until I have a ring on my finger, then he knows the rules. I am looking for marriage. I won’t stop short of that. May the best man win!

    I am on and today, both free sites. I got an email and a smooch, so I am feeling like maybe there are more than two men in the world who aren’t married. I am finding I really don’t miss Bill that much while he’s on vacation, and I think that’s cuz I am conditioning myself to not get my hopes up again after last year with Ryan, when I invested every part of my being in him. In a way it’s good, cuz I’m not like a raw, exposed nerve. But nor do I want to become insensitive.

    I always thot the romance novels were especially romantic when they involved either a man or a woman injured in the Old West with no town, doctor, or another person for miles, and a man and woman faced survival together while he or she recuperated. They got to know each other at a real level and there were no distractions. Today’s society has too many distractions. I just want to be alone in nature with a man.

  46.  #46Siena on June 1, 2010 at 10:36 am


    “TN Man has character, maturity, and absolutely sexy handsome looks! No wonder Lucy is so attracted to him! ”

    This is a trigger for me. (wow, they come in the most random places!)

    All of that stuff doesn’t matter ONE iota! What matters is how he treats his woman. Does he make her feel cherished, sought after, beautiful, set apart, sexy, like she’s the ONLY woman in the world?

    If not, he may as well be an ugly ogre living underneath a bridge.

    Mentally (and emotionally) shifting from “I want him because he’s gorgeous and successful” to “I want him because he makes me feel really great” has been a big challenge for me! I’m still working on it.

    Thank you for bringing that up so it can be healed.

  47.  #47Siena on June 1, 2010 at 10:39 am

    “Have you told your other men you are getting to know several men? ”

    No, because he hasn’t asked. (although I know it’s coming)

    Even when he does, and even if I give him the “no girlfriend speech”, I will still feel guilty about it.

    I’d like those guilty feelings healed, because I’ve done nothing wrong…

  48.  #48dorothea on June 1, 2010 at 10:41 am

    tallgirl you didn’t do anything wrong. how long has it been?

  49.  #49Simply Shannon on June 1, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Haha! Siena: I had the same reaction to the description of TN Man. He could be a super model but if I feel like crap around him, it doesn’t matter. Ick.

  50.  #50Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:26 am

    I agree about a man being handsome and it doesn’t matter. I was merely commenting the FACT that he’s extremely handsome. And there are some things about being handsome that set a man apart. To me, handsome means intelligent-looking, well-kept, and not nerdy. I’ve been a nerd magnet my whole life, cuz I’m too nice. So I prefer not to date an unintelligent nerd. I didn’t say anything about what kind of man he is, cuz I don’t know. Nothin wrong with making an observation. I’d be attracted to him too. I am MORE interested in a man with a beautiful heart. But there’s nothing wrong with admiring the beauty of God’s creation! Hehehe!

  51.  #51Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I know there’s a right moment for telling a man our relationship style when it comes to circular dating. My view is that since it is not the norm, the typical man expects that if we are “seeing” each other, we are in a relationship, and therefore exclusive. I know we don’t HAVE to tell him up front. But I decided for myself, I will share that at the earliest comfortable juncture, because I don’t want to hurt a man.

  52.  #52Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:30 am

    BTW, I meant TN Man has character in his face. That is something I have observed on the faces of mature people who have typically weathered tuff times. That was NOT a comment on his values, ethics, or morals.

  53.  #53Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:31 am

    I feel defensive for making an innocent comment about how I felt when I saw TN Man’s photo! He’s a handsome hunk!!!!

  54.  #54Tallgirl10 on June 1, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I have not heard from him since thursday, but in all fairness, he knows I was on vacation. And my guess is he assumed I got back sometime yesterday, but he never asked.

    Now I feel like I should have responded to his last text, but I had initiated the stream, but only because my guy friend said I had to.

    Who knew all the smack talkin rules???? hehe?

  55.  #55Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I like these tools and I need these tools. But sometimes I feel squealched like there’s no space for spontaneity or individuality on here in how I express myself.

    That is a trigger for me, because I grew up in Christian circles. I am very much in love with Jesus, and I want to keep Him in the center of my life. But one thing I don’t like about Christian circles is I only feel accepted when I talk Christianese. I feel like I can’t be a person in church.

    It was one thing that drove me into the arms of men in prison. There was acceptance there. With Kenny, I found a space where I could express myself any way I wanted to and still be accepted.

    Does every sentence that I write here HAVE to be Rori-ese? May I please speak Brenda-ese now and then? I am a unique individual, and I am also in process, as in inherently flawed.

  56.  #56Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I like these tools and I need these tools. But sometimes I feel squealched like there’s no space for spontaneity or individuality on here in how I express myself.

    That is a trigger for me, because I grew up in Christian circles. I am very much in love with God, and I want to keep Him in the center of my life. But one thing I don’t like about Christian circles is I only feel accepted when I talk Christianese. I feel like I can’t be a person in church.

    It was one thing that drove me into the arms of men in prison. There was acceptance there. With Kenny, I found a space where I could express myself any way I wanted to and still be accepted.

    Does every sentence that I write here HAVE to be Rori-ese? May I please speak Brenda-ese now and then? I am a unique individual, and I am also in process, as in inherently flawed.

  57.  #57Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Siena and Shannon, I agree completely:

    “He could be a super model but if I feel like crap around him, it doesn’t matter.”

    “What matters is how he treats his woman. Does he make her feel cherished, sought after, beautiful, set apart, sexy, like she’s the ONLY woman in the world?”

    The situation with TN man, however, was that I felt AMAZING through our connection, and he DID make me feel “cherished, sought after, beautiful, set apart, sexy, like she’s the ONLY woman in the world” — It is true that he was not making the 10 hour trip to see me, but since he was talking about it, I thought it was coming, and in the meantime he made me feel awesome.

    At the same time, I was dating a few local guys who ALSO made me feel “cherished, sought after, beautiful, set apart, sexy, like she’s the ONLY woman in the world” — but I did not feel GOOD around them because I did not feel any attraction to THEM. I kept dating them, being open to attraction building, but there were just things about them that to me were unattractive (e.g., neediness or military personality or incredibly irritating sense of humor or lack of spiritual depth, etc.)

    One of them was even incredibly successful and wealthy, and in demand by a lot of women, but he just wasn’t right for me.

    ‘shifting from “I want him because he’s gorgeous and successful” to “I want him because he makes me feel really great” has been a big challenge for me!’

    TN man, at that point, was actually not even “successful” — and it remains to be seen whether he will succeed in his challenging new job.

    “Success” in a man has never been important to me, and looks have always been secondary at most.

    I wanted him because he made me feel really great AND had so many qualities that *I* could respect, admire, appreciate and enjoy. I don’t enjoy a man who adores me if I don’t feel the same way about him.

    TN man’s incredible sex appeal was just icing on the cake, and a definite physical draw — but he had all the other stuff too. THAT’S why this is so hard for me right now.

  58.  #58Siena on June 1, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Brenda, I say this gently – but re #53 – I didn’t point that out as an attack on you at all… I just pointed it out. I see that you got defensive – there’s a trigger for you in there too!

  59.  #59Siena on June 1, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    …and to clarify (I’m sometimes pretty vague, and am working on being more clear in my communication.) I wasn’t even really talking about TN man at all. He was the one who was brought up, and it reminded me of my own issues. But really I was talking about all men.

  60.  #60Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    I felt good reading this article:

    I feel glad that I am making great progress in learning to take responsibilty for myself and my feelings.

  61.  #61Daria on June 1, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I’m feeling GREAT!

    I went out last night…

    Dman kept calling me and telling me he’s having a bbq.

    and then i met up with 2 girls from here and i thought… ok we could go out to the bbq… so i called him and we went.

    we were hanging out with him and his brothers (he has a lot)

    when dman came out to the car they started pulling on his hair and telling him that he’s handsome and stuff

    i just laid back in the car and chilled…

    he wasnt really flirting with them or anything, he came and gave me a hug through the half open window lol he couldnt fit

    then later he got IN the car and even grabbed my kneee hehe

    i said i feel nervous, it feels good to see you

    i felt good that they thought he was handsome haha

    i felt paid attention to by him all nite and it was fun… he shared a chair with me and bumped me and stuff hehe

    then at the end he disappeared and i felt a lil weird

    i figured he must be on the phone, it was time to leave so i asked someone to get him, he came out lookin a lil upset … he said he was on the phone arguing with his babymama

    i said i feel jealous

    he gave me like a quick hug bye he was still upset

    i didn’t feel good about that

    i feel a lil disappointed because i was just thinking wow i feel so great around him and then at the end i felt bad and like second place- i dont want that

    but haha one of his brothers had become my friend on myspace and i forgot… and he aas like wait your my myspace i friend

    i said oh… oh yeah haha

    yeah and i felt amused by that

    now his brother is talking to me on myspace haha

    im telling him how i feel about dman that i feel good but sometimes i feel second best i dont like that

    withut much detail

    he said he wanted to talk to me but that dman said i was his girl

    i said i feel flattered


    i do

    this feels fun

  62.  #62Rori Raye on June 1, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Brenda – this landed in “moderation” – sorry…and what exactly is “Rori-ese” – and how does it differ from “Brenda-ese.” Because – here’s the thing…Roriese is supposed to BE Brendaese. In other words – the Tools are just a “tool” for you to speak as YOU – and not from your influences, your intellectual voice – the stuff you’ve always done so automatically and easily – which is NOT you – but your thoughts, which are coming from the same place that has gotten you nowhere up to now.

    We’re just about exploring and expanding here…Brendaese is what we WANT!!! So – let me know where it is you feel squelched, and I’ll try to make sense of it. The only thing here is the issues around “advice.” There are a lot of life coaches on here, and they’ve figured out a way to give advice without being overbearing (or they’ve been given a swift boot by you all…). But to choose to be a coach on here and express yourself as a professional coach who’s giving advice and “teaching” would is not going to get you what you came here for, which is a safe place to open up. As Erika discovered – it is simply not possible to be both a girl and a professional in the same space at the same time. It’s a matter of switching hats. You can’t do it in the same space. Professional therapists and coaches cannot open up publicly the way you can here…it’s a different voice – and yes, it requires professional decisions to be made and thoughtful wording. And the learning is just not as free.

    Part of being here is getting triggered – on purpose – by other women’s stories and feelings. And when you give advice, you sort of create a different experience (I take this on because that’s what I do…I give advice. I share my stories and my inner workings, but I can’t be as free and experimental publicly with my “processing” as I wish to hold the space for YOU to do. It’s my job, my vocation, to hold the space for you to process in…and I can do this only as well as I’m willing to hold the space for my OWN processing, too.)

    So – perhaps Brendaese has nothing to do with giving advice or stating opinions, but, for you, it’s about something completely different that I’ve missed – so let me know what Brendaese is for you…and we’ll work with it…Love, Rori

  63.  #63Rori Raye on June 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Lucy – isn’t that a great article by Margaret? I snatched it up to post here next month…Love, Rori

  64.  #64Rori Raye on June 1, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Brenda – Oh – NOW I caught the thread!! Hey – I love that you express joy at seeing a handsome male face!! Me too!! This is a great moment, Sienna and Brenda – we’re talking about outsides and insides, and superficial and deep, and what attraction really is, and how we respond to what we find appealing, and what matters – and our brains, our hearts, our bodies… Of COURSE it’s triggering! Perhaps I’ll jump off on this…what we’re seeing now in movies and TV is the idea of a beautiful woman falling in love with an “unbeautiful’ man because of his great heart and how he makes her FEEL – and I’d love to continue this “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” thing… Also – I think Barbra Streisand has said a lot, and put a lot of this in our minds with her “Hey Gorgeous” thing – and how she’s worked that into her films and her real life, too. If you are a famous woman who thinks of herself as “unbeautiful,” as Barbra has, how does those two things in concert effect your life? She did not marry James Brolin (a Mr. Gorgeous) because of her power. It was, and is, a heart connection. How did that happen for her, and what does his being “gorgeous” have to do with it? Remember “The Way We Were”? Is this a good topic for us? Love, Rori

  65.  #65Daria on June 1, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    AACK – i feel triggered because last nite Dman looked handsome, and i didn’t tell him so, MY FRIENDS DID!

    And I felt a lil insecure not joining in and complimenting him…

    I feel afraid that I’m reaching out and “taking over the complimenting” by complimenting a man first ACK-

    I feel worried about holding back –

    I do compliment men sometimes, but i I feel afraid to just start in right away

    like he comes up and i say hi… omg you look so handsome

    i remember i did this once wiht Transformer man and he seemed befuddled and caught off guard and then he was like NO YOU look beautiful, i didnt even get a chance to tell you you look beautiful first.

    i was like whoa


  66.  #66Siena on June 1, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Rori, yes, I’d definitely be interested in that topic! I feel (or used to feel… it’s something I’m growing out of) smothered by the amount of expectations of the type of man I should be with. I’d love to have clarity about whether ONLY following my heart (regardless of who he is, what he does, how he looks etc etc) is a good idea.

  67.  #67Linda on June 1, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Emotional connection is the key that opens intimacy for me.

    I understand the concept that is being talked about here but I feel very very skeptical of its results.

    I am leaning back in my life right now.

    Waiting and watching for the one who will invest in me for more than a week! LOL.


  68.  #68Simply Shannon on June 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Like Siena, my comments on the handsome TN Man post were a generalization, not specific to TN Man.

    But specifically to Lucy, if TN Man was a toad, would you feel the same? I mean, if he was 5’0″, pot bellied, balding man, would you feel the same? I feel bad admitting this but I know that wouldn’t be the case for me. Call me shallow but that’s the truth. I don’t feel so vain that I must have a perfect 10 but looks do play a part for me. For example, height matters to me. That’s one of the things I wrestled with Mr. Fab Kisser. He was only a bit taller than me and I noticed it! I prefer men who are much taller than me. I made shoe choices that I wouldn’t normally in an effort to be shorter than him. It mattered to me. I feel amused just writing this out!

    Maybe I’m not as evolved as some but I can’t look past how attractive a man is to ME. 🙂

    And truthfully I’m upping my requirement in this department. Not because I want a superficial man but because I’ve believed for so long that I couldn’t attract and keep a hottie. I see now that is ridiculous and is cutting men out of my life just because I feel not worthy of a man who is “that hot”. 🙂

    This feels good.

  69.  #69Siena on June 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Ms Daria,

    If he’s a good looking dude (which is how he sounds), and he has women telling him often how good he looks (which is how it sounds) then he probably doesn’t even notice those types of compliments… or if he does, it’s only in passing.

    I would bet that he’s looking for a woman who makes him think he’s all types of other things OTHER than handsome (because he’s probably figured out that he is handsome, and is insecure about other things).

    He told you that you were his woman. You got this one in the bag… no worries!

  70.  #70Simply Shannon on June 1, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Ack – I feel triggered by my judgmental description of a “toad”…

    Forgive me that judgment Sirens! Ackkkkk!

  71.  #71Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Rori, I feel glad that you wrote #63. It is unusual for me to become very interested in a man with extraordinary looks. I wonder if, in the past, I felt that I simply didn’t stand a chance with a man like that so I didn’t even bother. What do you think?

    When I look at his pictures, my whole body melts and tingles. Just one glance!

  72.  #72Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I’m sure my body would not respond that way if they were just pics of some random man I didn’t have any sort of connection with btw. It’s the combo of his physical appearance and the emotional/spiritual connection.

  73.  #73Siena on June 1, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    You know what!? I’m super duper uber triggered by the whole “looks” convo!

    What is it in me that makes me feel this way?

    hmmm, I feel sad because I know people judge me by my looks, and have “used” me as arm candy. It’s a horrible feeling.

    I have a very handsome brother who has had women throw themselves at him because of his looks – all the while ignoring who he really is and playing games with him because of their own insecurity (he’s no angel either).

    Good looks have nothing to do with how the person is on the inside, and can actually distract from that! God and genes gave good looks, it has nothing to do with the person or his/her soul.

    I feel silly telling you all this.

  74.  #74Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Oh Shannon! Yes! I feel so HAPPY that you wrote that! It’s similar to what I am just now thinking about!

    “And truthfully I’m upping my requirement in this department. Not because I want a superficial man but because I’ve believed for so long that I couldn’t attract and keep a hottie. I see now that is ridiculous and is cutting men out of my life just because I feel not worthy of a man who is “that hot”.”

    When TN man was very interested in me, before he found interloper girl, I kept thinking “I can’t believe I might actually GET a man who is this hot!! This would be amazing!”

    Now, however, those nv’s are saying, “Hello? Why would you think for a MINUTE that you could keep a guy that hot? Of course he picked someone else. He was too good to be true for someone like YOU.”

    It’s like, I WANT to believe that I could have a guy like that, but this recent experience is pushing me back to thoughts of “settling” — maybe for a 5’0 bald man. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Please no!

  75.  #75Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Daria, I agree with Siena about the compliments thing. So true that he’s probably insecure about other things and wants to be appreciated for the OTHER parts of who he is, not just his looks, cuz he already knows he is accepted in that area… and he wants all the HIDDEN parts of him to be accepted and loved.

  76.  #76Simply Shannon on June 1, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Daria: That might be like a millionaire getting the “wow you have so much money” compliment. He’s thinking “oh ok. thanks for noticing, but did you know I cured cancer?” 🙂 I feel good that you were different and not falling all over yourself to compliment him. Receive, receive, receive. <– that means YOU.

  77.  #77Siena on June 1, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    I know why I feel triggered. It’s because I’ve felt used and discarded because of this issue, and I’ve never really been able to talk to anyone about it.

    I am good looking. And I know it and I can’t say it because people judge me about it. I say that like I say, “I am 5’10”,” it’s just something about me that I don’t have any control over. But if I bring it up as a sore point for me, people judge me and don’t listen.

    Because I’m attractive, I’ve had lots of men want to date me. And lots of men have dumped me once they’ve gotten to know me (or once they realized that I probably have more issues than many other women).

    And that feels really terrible.

    Because the truth is, I’m beautiful on the inside too. Even more beautiful on the inside than I am on the outside.

    But I had walls up from a very early age because everyone wanted a piece of me, and I was too young to know how to deal with it – so I put up walls.

    Being here has helped me to break down the walls and show the beauty on the inside.

    Beauty and good looks are smokescreens. It’s the heart that matters.

  78.  #78Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Siena, I think it’s a different thing to be interested in someone BECAUSE of their looks, rather than being interested in them as a person and also feeling turned on by the way they look.

    It’s also more than actual physical characteristics for me — there are many many awesomely handsome men who don’t get me going even on a physical level because they don’t give off the right vibe for me to feel that.

    For me, also, it’s not about wanting to show him off to other people so that I look good cuz I’m with a hottie — it’s about ME being turned on by him and feeling great physically and — like Rori said, emotionally and mentally because of the aesthetics of the experience — “joy” was the word she used.

  79.  #79Simply Shannon on June 1, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    So I wanted to write off topic and tell ya’ll the latest development in my life. I’m on a Man-Fast.

    Yep. No men for 30 days.

    I’ve taken all of my dating profiles down.

    Hidden boys on Facebook (so I can’t see their statuses).

    I’m not going to be dating for ONE month. (Note: I’ve still allowed room for circular dating in the basic sense of just flirting with the men around me but no actual dates.)

    I have to say that I feel nervous. It feels weird. My brain is already pushing back and saying “what am I going to do for a month?”

    And that’s exactly why I’m doing it. I’m finally realizing that so much of my life has been caught up in going out, dating men, staying busy with stuff… that I don’t actually have anything fulfilling in my life. No real hobbies other than shopping and going out. I feel embarrassed like I should have some amazing life (and I do) but it’s not like I’m out curing cancer or helping others. My life feels like a light beer. Tastes great but less filling. Haha!

    My plan is to get more involved serving at my church. There are a couple of ideas I have for big things we could do. I’m going to volunteer orientation tonight for large charity in my city. I’m also going to fix up my house and put it on the market next month. I’m finally getting a life!

    I feel excited for the things happening now. I can’t wait to see God move in my life.

    Along those lines, I may be posting less here. I don’t know. I don’t want to go cold turkey. 🙂 And this site is more about getting my head straight. It just happens to be in the context of relationship advice.

    Anyhoo… I’ve been toying with it ever since Rori made a comment about someone using all this energy that they could have used to create a cure for cancer. That really struck a cord with me, like ouch that one hurt. So now I’m doing something about it.

    We’ll see. Watch a tone of men fall out of the sky and into my life.

    Me: I’m sorry but I’m on a Man-Fast. Can we go out sometime in July?


  80.  #80Siena on June 1, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    SS, that’s awesome, the ULTIMATE lean back and trust experiment! I can’t wait to hear how it goes!

  81.  #81Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Siena, I feel glad that you are able to share your feelings and experiences about this here. My very good friend (the one who wrote that “EWWWWWWW” email to me about TN man’s invite) has the same exact thing to deal with as you do. She is incredibly physically attractive, and men’s heads turn automatically everywhere she goes — I have witnessed it first hand, too! One time we were on the boardwalk together, and men kept stopping and chatting her up WITHOUT ONE GLANCE AT ME OR EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING MY PRESENCE. I felt literally invisible. At the same time, I know, because she has talked to me about it, that although she feels good getting that attention, she knows that it is not about who she is but simply about how she looks — and she has had BAD feeling experiences around that, similar to yours. She, like you :), is very beautiful on the inside (yes!!! an AMAZING FRIEND!!) but lots of times men don’t even care about finding that out. They simply don’t care who she is — they just know she’s hot and that’s all they think they need to know.

    She got divorced a few years ago, then dated over 70 men, and last summer married a man she met on He adores her, and just happens to be very physically attractive as well — she said that now when they walk on the boardwalk together, the WOMEN are gawking at HIM, and it’s really an adjustment for her! (her first husband was not very good-looking…and not good to her, either. 🙁 )

  82.  #82Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Yes, I really like this topic. I feel extremely interested to discuss looks, and Rori, I feel honored that you wrote me twice, and I really appreciate your input.

    First I felt a little shocked last night as I caught up on reading the posts and felt bad for Lucy, because it seemed she was attacked over the interloper girl and TN Man apparently treating her second class.

    I felt attacked at first for simply stating how handsome TN Man is. I wondered if the barrage of attacks from last night were being redirected to me because I mentioned TN Ma.

    Now I don’t. I feel understood and in good company now. I appreciate how all of you clarified your words and we are now in a full-fledged discussion about it.

    Rori, I especially like how you said this becomes Brenda-ese because it is ME expressing myself. And, yes, my issue was feeling attacked. More and more, I feel a need to filter, double filter, and triple filter every word I say for fear I will feel attacked or misunderstood. When at first I thot I was being attacked for simply stating a man is handsome, I felt irritated.

    When it comes to me sometimes giving advice or whatever, what I am really doing is to reiterate your tools as a means of reinforcing them to myself. I am well aware that at this stage, I am talking the talk but often not walking the walk when I am actually in conversation with a man. I WAY overfunction, and I am the first to admit I am the queen of overfunctioning. That is likely also why I tend to be quick to give my opinions here, too. In high school, I stepped in to verbally defend a classmate the teacher was reprimanding. The teacher said, “What are you, the house den mother??” Overfunctioning, I believe, is the result of feeling out of control of your own life. It is an attempt to manage things so it gets back in order.

    Anyway, back to looks. I like this topic a lot, and, yes, Rori, I would like a string about looks. Thank you all!

  83.  #83carla on June 1, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Quick question… off topic from this recent post.

    I live in a small town. I have been here ALL of my life. I am feeling very frustrated with the dating scene here. I’m feeling uncertain about how to circular date when there seems to be no available men. Any suggestions from gals in similiar siuations?

    Thank you so much!

    Carla 🙂

  84.  #84Daria on June 1, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    wow thanks ladies – i feel happy reading your answers hehe.

    I still feel insecure about complimenting men though…

    not in this case in general

    i feel insecure like – i hold myself back in the moment and then… well theres always another moment this is true

    i would like to feel more relaxed around this

    thank you

  85.  #85Siena on June 1, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Lucy, thank you for that! I feel good knowing that others feel the same way I do.

    Like I said, it’s nothing that I’ve ever been able to talk about, so it feels good to express it here and deal with it.

    Love and hugs, Siena

  86.  #86Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Here’s my latest possible response to TN man’s invite: “Thanks for the invite. It would feel great physically to do a 3some, but it would feel really icky for me emotionally because of her being your girlfriend.”

    Any thoughts?

  87.  #87Daria on June 1, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Carla – I would start considering moving to a bigger town, or if there is a one nearby, going out there to date myself.

    I would also DEFINITELY sign up for dating online

  88.  #88Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Lucy is that how you REALLY feel? What I mean is, are those your “nice” feelings or is it something more like,

    “I feel awful to learn that you have a girlfriend, when I believed that you and I might have something special. When I consider having a 3some with you and your new girlfriend, I feel so bad! What do you think?”

  89.  #89carla on June 1, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Thanks for the advice Daria.

    Moving is not an option.. 🙁 I have a 10 year old daughter, and all she knows and loves is here. I also have a business. This is home for the next 8-10 years.

    I’m doing the on-line thing, but 90% of my messages are from out of towners, and long distance dating feels awful to me.


    Thanks so much for your response!! 🙂

  90.  #90Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Oh, Carla, I feel so bad for you — I am in the same type of situation, and it is not going well for me. I hope we can find a solution!

  91.  #91Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    I’ve had an unusual experience when it cums to looks. In the past, I was far more backward emotionally and socially than I am now, AND I was overweight. So if you saw me greet a man I was attracted to when I was a teen or in my twenties, you would have seen a shy plump woman looking down at the ground with her hair covering her face, unable to make eye contact and barely unable to speak beyond “hi”. I was so nervous I would tremble, trip with clumsiness, and my mind would go paralyzed with fear. I was ignored by men.

    When I was 22, I started to lose weight, and I lost 90 lbs by age 25. Suddenly I looked like a model, and men were gazing at me left and right, as Siena described, I got all sorts of attention from men. I had a perfect figure and a pretty face.

    But inside, I was still the nervous, trembling, clumsy woman with the self-esteem of a slug, who had been yelled at and criticized nonstop all her life.

    It was quite dramatic to be treated differently because of my looks. One past counselor practically tried to convince me that I overate in order to hide behind the fat. I said, “No, because when I was slender, I realllllly enjoyed flaunting it!!” I became quite promiscuous, and it was so exciting for the first time to be the one getting the whistles and extended eye contact!

    Sadly, after 6 years of being my right weight, I gradually regained the weight and then some as I coped with emotional pain by overeating. My top weight was 316, and I’m around 300 lbs now.

    For many years I thot that if a man could see beyond my fat and my emotional/social barriers, to see the real me inside, he would be a keeper. I seek unconditional acceptance.

    A major reason I was so in love with Ryan is that he did just that! When we started dating, he was a stringy 29 year old kid. Even tho he was skinny, he looked beyond my fat to my heart. That takes incredible maturity, insight, and acceptance. That is the kind of man I want to marry.

    In a way, I feel like the frog. I become beautiful when I am loved. I believe a woman who is well-loved will be slender and sexy well into her older years. All I’ve ever wanted is love and acceptance. And, don’t we all?

    I don’t like it, and I’m trying to lose weight again. But it’s a slow process. I lost 35 lbs last year when I was in love with Ryan. Then after he hurt me, I put 35 lbs back on, again, coping with emotional pain.

  92.  #92Laughing goddess on June 1, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Hello sirens! I’m really enjoying the convos here today. I feeling so preoccupied with my own situation though and I don’t feel able to contribute.

    I’m still feeling confused about my situation with LI vs mystery man.

    I feel so happy that LI is in my life and ready to give me what I want. I feel so loved and life feels fun with him yet I still find myself pining over mystery man. I met MM right before things started getting serious with LI. I just feel so curious about him. I would like to have a chance to see how it would feel to be romantic with him yet I don’t want to be distracted by an imaginary relationship. Even though he flirts with me at times, I feel bummed because it seems unlikely that he would ask me out because from the outside I’m sure he thinks I am with LI even though I am circular dating. MM is in the same friend group as me and LI and I can’t imagine that he would show interest in me out of respect for LI.

    I feel so confused because I don’t know if the attraction I feel for MM is based on a real energy I am feeling or i am attracted to him because I feel more comfortable with pining vs true love. I’m wondering if it has something to do with fear of intimacy as Rori discusses in the above post.

    I wish I could spend some romantic time with MM so I could satisfy my curiosity about him but it seems so unlikely given that he is one of LI’s aquaintences. I also feel scared of losing LI as he treats me so well and I really can so a future with him.

    Ladies please help! Is this a case of curiosity killed the cat. Am I trying to avoid intimacy with LI by being attracted to an unavailable man. He doesn’t feel unavailable in the sense that he doesn’t want commitment. In fact, he has told me he is looking for the love of his life. I don’t even know if he is attracted to me. I get the feeling he may be and he compliments me physically and has said some pretty flirtatious things, but has never made any moves which as I said, may be out of respect for LI as he knows him and interacts with him on a somewhat regular basis.

    Rori, ladies, please help me get some clarity on this.

    I know if I jsu surrendered to LI we would end up being together for a long time. He has told me that he is so in love with me and ready to make a life together. He hasn’t proposed yet but that’s not what I am looking for anyway. He has suggested exactly what I want which is living together and the possibility of having kids. I know I could be happy with him but I don’t want to feel that lingering question of what it would be like with MM.

  93.  #93Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    “I know I could be happy with him but I don’t want to feel that lingering question of what it would be like with MM…”

    LG, I feel so in-tune with you here! This is where the “love as a decision” comes in for me. I have that same exact thing in my life. The “what-if’s”.

    Perhaps a next step for you is to play it out? What if you marry LI while MM is still in your heart? Would you be able to be happy? What if you leaned forward to explore things with MM?

    What if you attracted MM at the same time you attracted LI so that you could make a firm commitment to LI – even while you had other options?

    Perhaps this is the lesson you’ve created for yourself?

  94.  #94Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks for your response, Siena. Those are my real feelings, though of course not ALL of my feelings.

    Your words are definitely also true: “I feel awful to learn that you have a girlfriend, when I believed that you and I might have something special.”

    However, I did already tell him (when he first told me about her) that I feel jealous.

    If I would say what you wrote there, I would feel like I am making him responsible for my feelings — like, that it would sound to him that I am expecting him to do something about it to make me feel better. But there is nothing for him to do in this situation — he can date who he wants — and it is up to ME to choose what I want to do about it— either be his friend or not be in his life.

    Maybe I would feel better saying, “I feel awful to learn that you have a girlfriend, when I believed that you and I might have something special. I am working through it though.”

    I don’t want to feel needy or to convey neediness or clinginess to him. He has gotten a ton of that with previous relationships.

    I feel scared that you, Siena (and others) will feel exasperated with what I wrote here. I feel scared that I make people feel frustrated with me. I feel good when people try to help me. I feel bad when I upset people or frustrate them. I feel like crying.

  95.  #95Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    LG, what’s the rush? If LI loves you, then you won’t lose him while you continue to CD. Then you can date MM. Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction brought him back. The more slowly a relationship develops (with LI) the more longlasting it is likely to be. How do you feel about that?

  96.  #96Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Brenda, I feel good hearing your story. I also gained a lot of weight at one point. I went from being 110 lbs (at 5’10”) to 200 lbs. Now I’m back down a healthy, happy weight.

    When I realized that I put on weight as a shield and that I was only making myself unhappy, I was able to lose it.

    It’s a lifelong process for many women (myself included), to feel good in our own bodies. It cuts both ways – skinny or heavy – it’s all the same issue.

    Thank you for sharing!

  97.  #97Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Lucy, how about something like this…”When you first told me you think you found a new lady, I felt like crying. I feel intrigued that you invited me for a possible threesome, and at the same time I feel treated second class. What do you think?”

  98.  #98Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Lucy, I don’t feel exasperated, but there’s something about your post that feels like it could be a breakthrough…

    You wrote that you didn’t want him to fix your feelings (or something like that).

    But isn’t that what we want our romantic partners to do? We WANT them to fix the situation so that we feel good. So not to fix our feelings but to fix how things are working so that we feel better.

    Telling him that you’re taking care of yourself is in effect telling him that you are his buddy. You don’t need him – just like a buddy doesn’t.

    But if you communicate to him your feelings and then give him the opportunity to fix the situation… that’s romance, intimacy, closeness etc.

    Otherwise, you’re putting yourself squarely in friendzone. And I KNOW you’re his friend, but your feelings run much deeper too.

  99.  #99Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I like Brenda’s post #96 too!

  100.  #100Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Thanks, Brenda. “I feel treated second class” feels blaming to me though.

  101.  #101Laughing goddess on June 1, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    I guess the answer is the same as it is for all of us…to focus on myself and not pine over a man who isn’t stepping up.

    I just can’t help bit wonder if the reason MM isn’t stepping up is because as far as he knows I’m with LI.

    Ladies, I really need help with this!

  102.  #102Laughing goddess on June 1, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Thank you for the responses Siena and Brenda!

    I’m going to take some time to absorb what both of you said.

    Thank you so much!

  103.  #103Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:36 pm


    “But isn’t that what we want our romantic partners to do? We WANT them to fix the situation so that we feel good. So not to fix our feelings but to fix how things are working so that we feel better.”

    Right! Exactly. But, in this situation, he is NOT my “romantic partner” — he is apparently someone else’s romantic partner.

    “But if you communicate to him your feelings and then give him the opportunity to fix the situation… that’s romance, intimacy, closeness etc.”

    Since he’s not my romantic partner, it’s not his job to fix it — and the only way he could fix it would be to either give me consoling platitudes (which would actually make me feel worse) or to dump the girl and pick me!

    So, giving him an opportunity to fix it would be like me saying, “Um, I want you to dump her and pick me so I can feel better. What do you think?”

    Since he’s not my partner — and is someone else’s — it’s MY job to take care of my feelings. Isn’t it???

    What do you think?

    I am very open to hearing more thoughts about this!

  104.  #104Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    “I just can’t help bit wonder if the reason MM isn’t stepping up is because as far as he knows I’m with LI. ”

    Meh… even if this is true (although it is an assumption and you could be totally wrong)…. do you want to be with a man who doesn’t want to fight for you?

    Plenty of women have men willing to fight for them, you deserve that too Laughing Goddess!

  105.  #105Kate on June 1, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Hi Everyone:

    I need advice very badly! And quick, because my ex has resurfaced in a big way. Actually he never went away but I’ve just opened myself up to him again.

    We lived together for 2.5 years and had communication issues, he had trouble with the everyday, he was depressed, resentment grew on both sides, and he was not wanting to have sex frequently enough for me. I felt alone most of the time, even though he was right next to me.

    We broke up about 9 months ago, and I moved out of his house about 4 months ago. When I moved out he got on antidepressants. I resisted letting him back into my life and tried to cut him off because he hurt me. I’ve been dating a bit and putting myself out there and he knows this. My life is great in many ways and he is well aware that I’m busy, active, etc.

    He has been offering to help me with my new house and he contacted me alot so I finally relented about a month ago. The sex is amazing again (like in the beginning), I stay the night at his place or him at mine, we go to breakfast or he cooks and then he wants to hang out the rest of the day and is willing to help me with yard/house chores. This is how we have spent the last 4 weekends.

    I feel confused because it feels like much more than a booty call. It feels like it did when we first fell in love. I can almost see it in his eyes, he seems so genuinely happy and open. But he hasn’t said anything. We had a brief discussion about things when an awkward moment came up (his friend started talking about a girl he wanted my ex to meet, not realizing I was there and that he was on speaker phone). He didn’t really say anything that clued me into his feelings one way or another. But things have been so great.

    Part of me wants to end it to protect myself. He burned me once, right? I don’t want to fall back in love with him if he is just passing time. But on the otherhand, it feels so right and genuine that part of me thinks I should let it go on for a while, giving the intimacy we’ve been sharing a chance and see where it goes. But I’m trying not to be stupid here. This is a man who didn’t do relationship very well.

    I don’t know what to do! He can be so sweet and I don’t get why he would be doing all this stuff for me, washing my car, mowing the lawn, etc. if he’s not into me? I can’t believe he would do this all just for sex. How can I tell if it’s ok to let him close again?


  106.  #106Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    “Telling him that you’re taking care of yourself is in effect telling him that you are his buddy. You don’t need him – just like a buddy doesn’t.”

    But I’m not SUPPOSED to need him, right? Isn’t that what neediness is? Especially since he’s not “mine”???

    Truthfully, though, I WANT to need him! I WANT to be able to say all those things you wrote and have him “fix it”!!!!

    But, he’s not my guy, so it seems not appropriate, and, like I said, impossible for him to fix anyway.

  107.  #107Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    But you WANT him to be your romantic partner! So you DO want him to fix the situation.

    If he were married or otherwise committed to the other woman, I would say you were right, and that you should just play the “buddy card”.

    But he hasn’t told you that he is married or committed to the other woman… so I say show him your real heart, and – using feeling messages – show him what you really want!

    It’s ALWAYS your job to take care of your own feelings, yes. But it’s also your job to give him the opportunity to create an environment where you can feel good.

    I say take a risk. What’s the worst that can happen?

  108.  #108Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    “But, he’s not my guy, so it seems not appropriate, and, like I said, impossible for him to fix anyway.”

    None of my CDs are “my guy” either. None of us on here are communicating with men in this way who are “our guys” (well, except a few… Tinque, some married women).

    Unless he’s REALLY another woman’s man… he’s good to practice on!

  109.  #109Laughing goddess on June 1, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I have a long history of pining, going for unavailable men, and being in imaginary relationships. That is my comfort zone. I definitely feel scared of intimacy. LI is the first man I’ve been attracted to who loves me as much as I love him (if not more) in a very long time. Thank you to Rori and all of you who have helped to me get to the place where I could have that kind of love.

    Honestly, I feel curious if part of my attraction to MM is that I feel like he is better than me. LI feels like more of an equal. I feel curious if the reason I want MM is because I am not accepting a part of myself (and in turn, not accepting LI). Ibfeel concerned that doesn’t make sense.

    I’m off to a meeting where I will see MM. I feel nervous and excited!

  110.  #110Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Siena, I feel grateful that you haven’t given up on me yet! 🙂

    I would say he IS committed to the other girl if he has made her his “girlfriend” – right? Isn’t that what “girlfriend” means? Not dating others?

    “show him what you really want!” — I’m pretty sure he already knows what I really want, cuz I have opened my heart to him in feeling messages all along . . . but he has chosen her apparently. Or am I missing something here?

    “I say take a risk. What’s the worst that can happen?” — The worst would be that 1) he sees me as needy and clingy and then all hope is gone for him to choose me if things don’t work out with her, and 2) I lose him as a friend cuz he doesn’t want a friend who can’t handle him having a girlfriend.

  111.  #111Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Kate, are you still CDing? Do you have “commitment blueprint”? Rori talks about (almost) exactly your situation in there…

  112.  #112Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Lucy, I got that phrase about feeling treated second class from a Rori program…Toxic Men, if I remember correctly.

    How about simply, “I feel sad” and then go from there, one feeling message at a time, and feel him out as you go. It really is a delicate situation.

    Siena, I honestly don’t believe I am hiding behind fat. I believe I eat because it gives me the (self-sabotaging) illusion that I am feeling filled, touched, warm, soft…

  113.  #113Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    LG, is there a way you can casually let MM know that you are CDing (and thus available)?

  114.  #114Laughing goddess on June 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Wow, I feel so appreciative and blown away by the support I’m seeing here today…not just for me but other goddess as well. I feel touched and amazed.

  115.  #115Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Lucy – no! Girlfriend to a guy means he gets exclusive sexual rights to her until he decides he doesn’t want to anymore. That’s not commitment.

    If 1) then you don’t want him because he doesn’t understand who you really are and can’t give you what you need.

    If 2) then you don’t want him because that’s not a real friend. A real friend will allow you to be 100% yourself.

  116.  #116Kate on June 1, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Siena: I had gotten Targeting Mr. Right a few months ago because I was trying to get over him, not get him back. It’s really hard to find extra money right now, but it sounds like I should get the other program you mention. I am trying to CD. I am dating, not really regulars in rotation, but new guys, flirting with my male friends, and practicing, etc.

  117.  #117Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    “Girlfriend to a guy means he gets exclusive sexual rights to her until he decides he doesn’t want to anymore. That’s not commitment.”

    Really?! I feel so surprised! But maybe that’s not what it means to everyone. That’s not what it meant with my bf’s in college (with some we weren’t even having sex) I feel intrigued by your definition of girlfriend, Siena, and I feel curious about what “gf” means to TN man!

  118.  #118Siena on June 1, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Kate, I have both the programs, and my opinion is that “Commitment Blueprint” is by far the better one. I’ve listened to it probably a dozen times, and it WAYYY opened up my eyes and helped me to completely understand how men think about dating. And it gives really practical advice for everything leading up to “ring on the finger”. If you can afford it, it is very much worth the price (and more!)

  119.  #119Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    I thought “girlfriend” meant he was falling in love with her.

    Isn’t that what it means???

  120.  #120Siena on June 1, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Lucy, I paraphrased, but that’s Rori’s definition of gf – not mine.

    She calls it the girlfriend trap. And that’s what she means when she says “imaginary relationship” – the woman believing that something different is happening that what the man believes.

    I feel weird putting words into Rori’s mouth, so let me edit all of that by saying, “From what I understand…”

    It’s all in Commitment Blueprint! (haha, Rori, that’s 3 plugs in 5 minutes for that program.)

  121.  #121Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    “If 1) then you don’t want him because he doesn’t understand who you really are and can’t give you what you need.

    “If 2) then you don’t want him because that’s not a real friend. A real friend will allow you to be 100% yourself.”

    OH! That is SO TRUE!!!!!! Thank you so much for pointing that out!!!!

    1) He told me that he ended most of his past relationships b/c the girl got “too clingy; that is unattractive.” BUT…. that Inner Bonding article I posted the link for above (that Rori said she’s gonna use next month) — haha, it says that if you keep attracting “needy” people it’s b/c there is a hidden neediness inside YOU… which means that HE must be needy but doesn’t realize it consciously!!

    2) The friend thing — I have had some bad experiences with friends, and I have abandonment issues around friendship, which is why I don’t want to lose him a a friend. And, really, that’s why I have been grateful that he still is in touch with me even while having a gf — cuz I didn’t want to feel abandoned again by a friend. But you are right, a true friend will accept me no matter what, and maybe this is a chance to see if he is truly a true blue friend.

  122.  #122carla on June 1, 2010 at 3:08 pm


    It feels comforting knowing there is other woman out there who understand the frustrations of small town dating! I feel so thankful for Rori and all of her wisdom. I just wish I had more opportunities to practice.

    Wishing you the best as well Lucy!!

    Carla 🙂

  123.  #123Siena on June 1, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    okay ladies, over and out. I feel tired. I felt really triggered by the whole “looks” convo, and so it made me want to hang out here and work through it.

    And I did. And now I feel tired and need a nap.

    Love to you all!

  124.  #124Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Have a nice nap, Siena. Thanks so much for your help! <3

  125.  #125Apple Jacks on June 1, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Wow, going through all this….Siena I wished you lived close by me so that when I start really getting into the CD process I could have someone to run to. I feel like I can really relate to you and the way you explain things makes it so easy for me to understand, and I feel a beautiful safety when I read your posts explaining all the tools.

    Of course there’s always this blog and all you wonderful sirens to help me. Right now, I feel really back and forth between my energies, I guess I’m trying to get the hang of switching hats at this point. I am exhuasted by my boy energy to say the least.

  126.  #126Katie on June 1, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Hi Kate
    It is a special time when a relationship with a man comes back round but there’s likely to still be issues from first time around and how it all ended that time. It’s tricky because you maybe don’t want to focus on the past and spoil a chance of reconnecting in the present.

    Trust is an area that maybe you can talk about together.

    One thing I have realised since I split up is that I didn’t trust myself or my boundaries and I was waiting for him to define all that for me. Doesn’t work, can’t work and I’ve learnt so so much since then (10 months ago) so much about men generally and so much about myself.

    If I get back with my ex I know that I will be able to be more real with him and we could have a much better realationship than before.

    Good luck… stay true to yourself.

  127.  #127Katie on June 1, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Wow Siena… I loved what you wrote:

    “You’re being triggered, which is healing old stuff. And you’re sticking it out, allowing yourself to be triggered, which means that you WILL work it out!”

    Thanks for this – being triggered is healing old stuff, when we stay with it in a concious way.

  128.  #128Rachel on June 1, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Really missing my guy today… sigh.

    I wish I could tell him, but that would be leaning forward, I guess.

    So I’m telling you
    so I won’t
    contact him.

  129.  #129aprilshowers on June 1, 2010 at 4:51 pm


    Please, please, PLEASE do a thread on “switching hats”. You touched on it in your response to Brenda (#61).

    My recent ex-lover is my business partner. I’m too broke to break up the business, so there I remain. Actually, in that regard we’re a great fit. But, unfortunately, the feelings remain too…

    I do “feeling messages” all day long. I lean back. When in doubt, I lean back further. He responds soooo well whenever I do. I follows me around, calls constantly, tries to please me, asks me to lunch etc. etc.

    However, sometimes I have to put my “boy” hat on to get some work done! Lol. Please tell us more. I’ve got 5 of your programs, I still can’t get enough. I always learn something new. Thanks, Rori!

  130.  #130Daria on June 1, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    April Showers – There is at least one switching hat post… i don’t know where, but it’s somewhere in the blog’s past

  131.  #131Rachel on June 1, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    I feel really excited and intrigued by your one month experiment. I hope that you will stay here on the blog and let us know how it’s going. I think we can all learn from it … at least the spirit of it.

    I have often thought of what I could have accomplished over the past two years if I had used my energy for good instead of fretting, pining, worrying, grieving, etc.

    I’m doing better and each day, I find more strength to work on my own beautiful, fabulous life. But I think it would be great to hear and learn from your journey too.


  132.  #132Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Hi. You know the last part of Rori’s mantra where she says, “Be surprised!”? I was just surprised! Ryan just called me! I feel happy!

    I took a nap and turned the volume of my phone off. When I woke up, there was a voicemail from Ryan, the first call from him since probably January! And the first contact in over a month, because he was texting up until April.

    I called him back about an hour after he called and got voicemail. So I left a message simply saying I feel happy to hear from him and that I was taking a nap. It means a lot to me! I’m happy deep down inside where it counts!

  133.  #133Siena on June 1, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    AJ, wow, thanks for #124, it feels really good to read that!

    I feel so grateful… I was supposed to go on a first date tonight, but have really been dreading it. Just because I feel tired of the whole first date experience. It’s not easy to do it over and over again (as you all know).

    So I was walking my pup before getting ready, and I remembered that I should call the massage place (yes, I’m a member – it’s my gift to myself to take care of me) because I didn’t know when my next massage was, but I knew it was coming up.

    My massage is tonight at 7! Oh happy day!

    I canceled my date!

    Yay! Thank you God for taking care of me! I’d much rather get a massage than do anything else tonight.

    It’s minor, but it’s a reminder from God that He’s got my back. Wehewww!

  134.  #134Lucy on June 1, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Siena, what a great, encouraging little story! Thanks for sharing that!

    Brenda, I feel happy that Ryan called! Just remember to stay leaned back now!!!

  135.  #135Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Thanks, Lucy! Yes, I’m going to stay leaned back and take it really seriously! I have a second chance (actually 1000th!) chance with Ryan and I’m going to take it slow and just lean back and feel in my girl energy! I can only wonder where I’d be without Rori! It was really bad before I started being a Siren!

    Siena, I’m happy for you to enjoy a massage tonight instead of a stressful, draining first date! Hehehe! Oh, we try to make it a fun adventure, but sometimes at best it’s just tuff.

  136.  #136Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Lucy, I am praying for you in your heartache. I know the pain of unrequited love. I also know things can turn around. Be surprised! I hope and pray for the best, and I hope you find comfort for your hurting heart.

  137.  #137gina on June 1, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    I was reading all the comments up to 80ish, and as I was reading I felt an overwhelming desire to address that this “hot” guy is a player and that this girl can’t trust him anymore than Lucy could. I know that’s a big judgment…but it’s 99% true, and so, for me, I think it would be easier to acknowledge that he’s a good looking guy who isn’t finished showing off, and is a potential threat to my heart. I feel especially nervous and vulnerable when dealing with super sexy men – less safe, in general.

  138.  #138Daria on June 1, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    I feel excited ! to share… ok…

    I LOVE first dates!

    They feel so feminine to me!

    I love thinking ahead of time idea of meeting a new person, who is there for the purpose of meeting ME!! I feel so happy and special!

  139.  #139mary on June 1, 2010 at 11:08 pm


    I feel like that too!

  140.  #140Daria on June 1, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Yay I feel happy I got a missed call from Dman (or is it his brother lol)

    I was just thinkin how … well he probably dont like me that much or else he would call me everyday… dont thinkhe gonna call me today since he seen me yesterday

    but guess what he did call haha

    he still need to leave a message

    i feel good seeing his number on the missed calls

  141.  #141Daria on June 1, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    my godsister called too, also no message – looking at her number make me feel afraid… images of yelling at each other and me feeling afraid…

  142.  #142Tina on June 2, 2010 at 12:20 am

    I read somewhere that it was easy to be spiritually intimate with god, the trees, nature in general. More complicated when human intimacy is concerned. Yes that is true, well it at least makes sense to me. I spent the evening not answering phone calls and reading fashion magazines 🙂 when I was younger, in my teens and still today sometimes, I look in the mirror and copy the poses lol, I would love to do that, it’s a fantasy I suppose huh? I’m going to make a plan and do something , just for fun.

  143.  #143Daria on June 2, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Ooh Tina copy the poses wat a great idea!

  144.  #144Tina on June 2, 2010 at 12:58 am

    I asked truckman if what he was asking was for me to trust him? he said well yes, he laughed and asked if I did trust him, like he was suprised, that I may not trust him at all. I’m kinda wishy washy on my trust baby steps, the more invested I become the more hurt I may experience. He said when he left he was afraid that I thought he was leaving FOREVER. hm interesting, I said I’m glad you brought that up, because I felt relieved that you left, he said he ended up going to mcdonalds and haveing a bigmac instead of the dinner I cooked. I asked him if he felt abandoned, it came up in our convo at some point, he said yes, but he didnt want to talk about it, or at least I would have to be sensitive to his abandonment issues. He wanted to re assure me that when he leaves he isnt leaving forever, that I said that I wanted my space so thats why he left. He also said that he got the message that I didnt want to see him anymore. I did feel something when he said that, I felt um, fear yeah fear. It was brief but no doubt it was fear i was feeling. Fear of what? fear that I have to make a decision, fear that I would have to say no, I dont want to see you again please go away. fear of abandonment? We did also talk about my need for safety trumps my need for love. I go back to safety, I want to feel safe, do I not trust myself again, hell I was doing just fine blah! its so easy when I am alone putting it into practice is so much different. Do I not trust or even like/love my dark parts? acceptance ah yeah. I love my dark parts 🙂 I love my feelings of having this safety issue. I love my feelings of fighting, struggling. I love my feelings of not wanting to let go. let go of what? surrender yeah. fighting to not surrender. do warrior goddess women surrender? never surrender , fight to the death ahaha. I want to love me, do I not? fck it! blah.

  145.  #145Tina on June 2, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Daria, I found pics of a model her name is daria 🙂 yeah Im going to do that, just for fun. My son wants to be a photographer when he grows up, he’;s 17. He does seem to find life in his photos. He is able to find the spirit in things. So young, my baby sniff*.

  146.  #146mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:02 am

    “So young, my baby sniff*.”

    that’s so cute!

  147.  #147mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:06 am

    Totally anti-siren:

    I called Island Man this morning.

    Told him I received his calls last week and was sorry I didn’t call back. I’m new to dating this time around and felt very hesitant to call, so I just didn’t. I told him I didn’t want him to think that I wasn’t interested in him.

    He thanked me for calling. We didn’t talk long as he was walking out the door.

    He called me back tonight and we talked for a while.

    We’re both going to the mainland on Saturday, so we made plans to ride on the ferry together.


  148.  #148mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:09 am

    I’m beginning to ask: “what if one of these guys ever stumbled onto this site and found me here?” and “how would i feel if they were on a blog talking about me?”

    answer: well, i’d probably feel okay about that. maybe i’d be flattered.

    but maybe i shouldn’t be talking about them on a public forum. not because i’d get caught, but out of respect for them.

    ? ? !!!! ?

  149.  #149mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:15 am

    I think that as much as possible, I want to just start treating dates like I would want to be treated as a human being.

    I’m starting to get to the 2nd and 3rd dates, and guys are beginning to get pretty serious. Pretty fast. (I didn’t know that would happen!)

    I’m not sure that I’m rockstar diva enough to not care about their feelings, and to keep the focus on me.

    I’m not sure I want to do that.

    Maybe I won’t circular date after all.

    Maybe only one man at a time is the right idea for me. I’m not sure.

    I’m thinking it through right now.

  150.  #150Tina on June 2, 2010 at 1:19 am

    Mary, he’s the last baby to leave the coocoo nest 🙂 My daughter is in the city, working at a sandwich shop and going to interviews at salons. My oldest son makes pizza and drinks beer lol , his father raised him blah anyway, my youngest is still home for a few more years. I want to send him to camp, I;m looking at photography camps. He found my old pentax camera , he wants to use it, i;ll let him but I have to buy film for it. I thought he would go digital but no.

    I dont think its anti siren to re turn a call, if he left you an instruction to call him back. I wouldnt worry so much about his feelings about why you didnt call sooner.

  151.  #151mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:42 am


    i’m a photographer.

    and getting the instant feedback from a great digital camera has – over the years – given me the ability to see light and patterns and reflections in a way that i’d never seen them before. after taking thousands of pictures and looking at them within seconds after taking them, i can almost see a picture before i take it. i take a lot less photos now with better results.

    “last baby to leave the cuckoo’s nest!” never heard that before! that’s funny too.

  152.  #152mary on June 2, 2010 at 1:45 am

    there’s an amazing photography camp in my neck of the woods! it’s called “Image Explorations,” and it’s really first class.

    i go every year, but i can’t this year because my daughter’s having a baby at the same time.

    look for it on google! it’s at the Shawnigan Lake School on Vancouver Island.

    it’s for professional photographers but he could probably go. and he’d learn a heck of a lot. i always do!

  153.  #153Tina on June 2, 2010 at 3:45 am

    I just came back from a 6am walk wow, I feel pumped. I had a dog with me, she is a stray so I bought her some beef jerky at the corner store 🙂 and got myself a juice, I;m drinking coffee now haha

  154.  #154Tina on June 2, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Thanks Mary, I’ll do that. I want to send him somwhere for a week 🙂 before he starts work. He is 17 and starting to “drift” I think he’s hanging out with the old lady that smokes pot

  155.  #155tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 3:55 am

    Wow, I am feeling sick and anxious again.

    So text man texted me last night. Here was the exchange – I would use your thoughts!

    Him 7:45 – So how was the rest of vaca? Did you also have Thursday, Friday, Sat and Sunday hangovers?

    Me 8:35 – Hey there! Thankfully hangovers were kept to a minimum, but calories sadly were not. What holiday debauchery did I miss?

    Him 9:09 – No debauchery other than the twins beating up on the yankees on thurs night, a lot of grilling out, and time outside. I realized I am deeply in need of a sabbatical

    Me 10:00 – So, the Yankees aren’t totally greedy after all ;-). Given how rested I feel, I am a full on supporter of sabbaticals, with or without debauchery

    Then he got serious about life

    him 10:43 – Sometimes I just wish I could ignore all clocks and do things on my own schedule. Or maybe I’ll quit my job and move to africa for a year

    Me 11:06 – You should do whatever makes you happy. It may not always feel like it, but the world and time are for you to enjoy! I have a feeling you would have a great time exploring. Sweet dreams.

    Was I ok? Was I too serious? I was trying to be encouraging of him sharing with me, and that he should do whatever makes him happy.

    Also, I just remembered today is his birthday and I forgot to wish him a happy birthday. Should I reach out and do that?


  156.  #156tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 3:58 am

    I feel like I should have been lighter. But what he told me was serious even if caged as a joke.

    And I feel aweful about forgetting his birthday, but we have only been out a few times.

    Did I kill it?

  157.  #157Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:26 am

    Tallgirl, here’s my two cents, Im not sure if his comment about running off to africa feels feminine to you? does it? Does your comment feel advicy? I would have texted back “oh” haha but thats me. Truckman decided that I needed a blackberry but I dont have service in my area lol. Anyway he’s dropping it off this week sometime, I could go climb a tree and see if I get service hehe 🙂

  158.  #158Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Tallgirl, Ive never said to a man ‘sweet dreams” it’s not something I would say. I would say something like “have sweet dreams of me ok ” i dunno…

  159.  #159Tina on June 2, 2010 at 5:00 am

    I feel like i have to come up with an excuse about why I didnt answer my phone when he called? do I need an excuse? This feels yucky to me, I feel yucky to have to come up with an excuse for not answering my phone. He says “call me when you get in” yeah well I didnt. I left an offline message after my walk this morning.

  160.  #160tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 5:38 am


    I do say sweet dreams, it was a to indicate I was going to bed.

    Even if his energy was feminine – what was I supposed to do? You can’t just stop responding every time a man says something that is not a question.

    I tried to stay away from giving advise. In that I did the same thing at one point, in fact, I left for the Peace Corps. I was trying to tell him to follow his dreams and that was ok. Not to turn in back into what I have done and what I would do.

    That is why I added the feeling message about him having a great time exploring.

    I feel triggered and attached by you. I know that was not your intention. But that is how I feel.

    I am already anxious about this, and I felt like he was actually opening up to me by sharing this with me. I was simply trying to be responsive and receptive and tell him his feelings were ok, and not turn it back to me and what i would do. That is giving advise.

  161.  #161tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 5:41 am

    He just texted back!

    I’m also considering living off the land in the backwoods or becoming a buddhist monk, we’ll see what happens

  162.  #162Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:06 am

    Tallgirl, since you asked for feedback, I will give it. I think you did great! And, since the lines of communication are open, I think it would be very nice to wish him a happy birthday!

  163.  #163Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 6:07 am

    Tallgirl: If I’m the guy, maybe I’m feeling tired of the “light” banter. I know I’ve felt that way before with dudes who just wanted to joke all the time. Like zzzzz (boring) after a while.

    I feel all kinds of tightened up reading your posts. My anxiety level feels incredibly high when I get absorbed in analyzing every single thing. It feels awful when my brain won’t shut off. It feels much better to STOP and do something fun that has nothing to do with a boy. I’ve been where you are. I’m sure if I searched my previous posts, I would see these exact same types of questions.

    Looking back, I can see that I was standing in my own way of going deeper and/or progressing to dates. *I* controlled the the pace of the discussion instead of letting the man lead.

    Why? –> Because I felt scared as hell that he was going to ask me something or want my opinion and I would have to actually share myself with him.

    Does any of that resonate?

  164.  #164Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 6:10 am

    Tina: I love reading the convos between you and truckman. They feel real and very sireny. You’re in that “next” stage. It feels good to watch and learn.

  165.  #165Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Tallgirl, I agree with Shannon that you seem to overanalyze your every word. And, also, I agree that it is not WRONG. I tend to do the same thing. Sometimes the first thing that pops in your Sireny little heart is the right thing to say! Not always, of course! I myself LIKE to get in a serious discussion with a man. It is intimacy. Him telling you he is feeling a serious need for a sabbatical is a deep admission. He is letting you in. I might respond, “What’s going on?” or ask what stresses and pressures are leading him to feel burned out.

  166.  #166Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 7:05 am


    I feel your pain! I’ve felt similar feelings of worry when I find myself analyzing every word of a conversation with a man.

    I feel a little frustrated right now because I want to share my perspective with you but I also feel hesitant to because Im scared to trigger or offend you.

    I feel worried that offering any constructive criticism will cause you more stress.

    I feel confused because it seems like you are asking for help but I feel uncertain if my help will be openly received.

    I feel safer asking what you want. What do you want from us sirens? Do you just want someone to listen? Or do you want opinions about what to do next? Do you want positive encouragement? I’m willing to offer any of those but I’m just unsure of what you want. When I see you posting your word for word texts, I assume that you want specific feedback on the texts.

    I feel really happy that he opened up to you. This reminds me of what Rori said (I think it’s her that said this) about how it’s the emotional connection that bonds a man to us….not the physical, spiritual, or mental connection. This feels exciting to see him opening up in that way.

    If it were me in that situation, next time he does that I would keep the conversation going and just listen with responses like …

    -Oooo, I feel ya.

    -I feel excited to hear about what makes you tick. Tell me

    -it feels good to know that this comes up for other people too.

    Etc. Etc.

  167.  #167Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 7:13 am

    Wow! I feel triggered!

    I feel fraudulent offering feedback to others when I am not totally together and perfect myself. This doesn’t feel good. I feel worried that I will be judged. This feels bad.

    I do feel great about communicating in feeling messages. They feel good. They feel safe.

    It feels easier to see where others can improve. I feel confused and blocked seeing myself. This feels normal to me. I wonder if others struggle with this as well.

    I feel inspired to go back and reread and relisten to all of Rori’s work. I feel so thankful for all I have learned and where it has gotten me but I also feel the desire to expand more and do even better

  168.  #168Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 7:18 am

    From SS’s post to TG:

    “Looking back, I can see that I was standing in my own way of going deeper and/or progressing to dates. *I* controlled the the pace of the discussion instead of letting the man lead.”

    This feels like really powerful feedback to me TG! I feel curious if it resonates with you.

  169.  #169Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Hi Laughing goddess, I got a kick out of you feeling triggered by your own post! LOL! I SO relate! I think I tend to do the same…it feels so easy to give others feedback and advice yet so difficult to face my own messy life!!

    Check out what Rori said to me in #61 that is related. I think she wrote that before she realized I was feeling squelched just because I stated that a man was handsome! I feel like such a piece of work when I see myself in action! LOL! I love the parts of myself that are still in process!

  170.  #170Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 8:06 am


    He is the one who is pacing. I simply respond, but at times he does not say anything that merits a response, more like a conversation by text.

    Since he did open up to me, and the he made a joke about it, I did not push for more, I simply acknowleged what he said.

    Him – I’m also considering living off the land in the backwoods or becoming a buddhist monk, we’ll see what happens

    How I read this – that he is not super comfortable having a serious conversation with me, but he wanted me to know that he heard what I said, that is why he responded at all. I do not want to probe, as he is a super private person. With that said, I am trying not to let my fear rule me.

    The controlling me would not respond at all because he is not asking me questions or asking me out. The not controlling me is happy that he shared and hope he asks me out sooner or later.

    So I responded with –
    Me – I hear bugs and bark make a tasty sandwich.

    And he just responded with:
    him – I assume you know that from experience.

    I think I will respond with:
    Yuck, no! I feel excited to learn survival skills from you.

    I know the analyzing every word is unhelpful. But I am new to feeling messages.

    While I am triggered, I do want everyones feedback. I simply cannot understand what this man is doing or is after.

  171.  #171Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 8:25 am

    TG: I feel triggered. I feel frustrated because I want more openness. I want to hear more feeling messages here. I feel turned off by what I perceive as masculine energy. I feel scared to say that. I feel scared to hurt someone’s feelings or get in a big debate. I feel frustrated because I see how much feedback you are getting and I wish I would get that kind of help.

  172.  #172Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Tallgirl, If it were me, I’d say something like, “I really enjoy your texts, and I’d feel so happy having these discussions in person!”

    I agree with a lot of the Sirens on here that there is too much phone calling, texting, emailing, and Facebooking these days. It takes away from live, in person relationships. Some of the women on here won’t even text. They’ll respond to a man in text one time, and end by saying, “Sorry, I don’t text”. Then if he wants to communicate with you, he has to step up to the plate and meet with you!

    I wish I hadn’t let Ryan get away with so much texting. He finally called me last night after a long time, and I’m going to not ever let it get back to texting again. So much communication is missed when we are not with someone face-to-face.

  173.  #173Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Ugh! I just feel frustrated all around. I feel annoyed with myself and exhausted with pining over mystery man. I don’t want to spend my energy on this. I want to focus on me, on my life. I have so many cool things that I want to do for myself. I don’t want to think about him. I just want to build myself up and be a radiant, open goddess who is in love with my life. I want my mental energy back. I want to focus on me. Pining is starting to feel awful and boring. I feel excited that maybe I am reaching a new comfort zone. I feel excited that maybe my pining days are over.

    Yay! That feels good.

    It feels really great that I don’t pine much over LI. It feels good to not worry if he likes me or not. I feel safe and confident with him.

    Last night I had a moment of worry about him but it was mild and passed quickly. He is out of town for a week working and he texted me saying “good night mi amor”. Instead of texting back, I called him because I had a funny story I wanted to tell him. He didn’t answer and I started to feel paranoid. I started to worry. So instead, I calmed myself down and focused on other things. He responded a while later with a sweet text acknowledging the story I left on his message.

    Wow! I feel at peace with him. I love that I don’t worry too much with him. I love knowing that he loves and accepts me the way I am. I’m starting to feel more comfortable with an easy-going relationship vs pining and yearning.

    It feels great to relax in to this!

    I feel reminded of something Abraham Hicks says about how when we meet our mate, it’s supposed to feel easy. It feels smooth and obvious not like worrying and fretting. I feel more and more able to relax into this.

    Thank you thank you thank you!

    It feels so great to have all that worry energy freed up to focus on curing cancer (thanks SS) or follow my bliss or just have fun or whatever.

    Thank you universe for this lesson and this new found energy!

  174.  #174Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Thanks Brenda! It feels good to be reminded of the humor in it all! 🙂

  175.  #175Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 8:49 am

    Thanks everyone.

    I am really practicing with the feeling messages, which is way more than I have ever done before. That is why I like the:

    Nope, I feel excited to learn survival skills from you.

    As to the text debate, I am feeling very frustrated because I really don’t want to go back and forth via text over and over. He knows how to call, and he knows how to email.

    I want everyones feedback about what to do, I am open even if I am resisting.

  176.  #176Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Actually, what I think I am going to do is:

    Yuck, no! I feel excited to learn survival skills from you. Give me a call when you have some time.

    I know this is masculine energy, but this is my second time around with him, and that worked well last time.

  177.  #177Siena on June 2, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Brenda, I feel so good for you that Ryan called! I hope you continue to hang out here a lot as things unfold with him.

  178.  #178Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Tallgirl, why not turn the last part into a feeling message like, “It would feel so good to talk about it rather than text!”

    Laughing goddess, You’re welcome! I’m happy for you that you are feeling more at ease with LI. Have you decided yet if you are going to move towards CDing MM?

  179.  #179Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Hey TG. Thanks for not taking my triggered feelings personally. It’s my own stuff and I can acknowledge that.

    What about if you said…

    It feels so good to connect with you but honestly I’m feel annoyed with texting right now. It would feel so much better to talk on the phone or in person. What do you think?

  180.  #180Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Tallgirl: I feel frustrated. I say one thing and you say basically “no that’s not true”. I feel unheard. I trust you to get this at your own pace.

    If I’m feeling annoyed with texting, I say “I feel tired of texting (or I feel disconnected). What do you think?” If he keeps texting/emailing, then I stop responding. I trust the guy to figure it out. He has my number. He knows where to find me. If I keep responding, I’m basically telling the guy that I don’t mean what I say. My actions speak louder than my words.

  181.  #181Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:00 am

    LG, I swear you and I struggle with the same things. Pining equated love for so long for me, and now that I don’t “have” to do it anymore, it feels weird.

    It’s kinda like you (I) look at LI, who is doing everything right, and kind of shrug and say, “Is this all there is?”

    But that’s good. That’s what love is supposed to be. Not drama and blowups and distance and breakup/makeup blah blah blah…

    It’s a new level of love. It’s the real thing! But you still have a choice. You can choose LI or you can choose to wait for something better/else.

    It’s all about choosing yourself in the end anyway… the guy (as long as he’s a good, decent man who loves you) doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.

    ^^ anyway, that’s what I’m learning on this portion of my journey.

  182.  #182Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 9:06 am

    LG: I feel weird about this whole MM and LI situation. So much of it rings true for me and my Mr. Fab Kisser situation. I kept thinking (at the time) how much I enjoyed his company but “what if” someone else is out there. On the one hand, I could second guess myself to death but on the other hand, I felt suspicious that all was not kosher if I was wondering “what if”. It’s a vicious cycle. I understand you’re frustration. It feels difficult to know which way to go. For me personally, I’d be more likely now to test the waters with MM before locking myself away with LI.

    Here’s the thing… once I’m exclusive (married in my case), it’s important to be honest about the feelings we have for other people. This is why cheating happens. We get some lukewarm feelings for the dude at the coffee shop. We never tell anyone and then all of a sudden, we’re doing things we shouldn’t. Instead, it might feel better (like a relief) to say “you know, I’m feeling some attraction to MM. I don’t want to lose you but I feel weird that the attraction is there.”

    Ok, so I feel scared saying that. Like I can’t imagine actually saying that to someone I loved. But seriously, that is how cheating happens. We can’t admit the attractions we’re feeling. And yet, if we could, then maybe our guys could help us figure out what it is we’re missing IN the relationship that is causing us to look OUTSIDE of the relationship.

    Mmmm… interesting thoughts Shannon. 🙂

  183.  #183Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:07 am

    “I know this is masculine energy, but this is my second time around with him, and that worked well last time.”

    Tallgirl, exactly. We teach people how to treat us (as you totally know).

    He doesn’t have to do anything as long as you do it.

    I know you’re just responding to his texts, but your energy is screaming, “ASK ME OUT DAMMIT!”

    There’s no way he can’t see or feel that. But he’s choosing to ignore it and instead, he’s responding to you with what basically amounts to feelings messages.

    He’s lamenting about how tired he is and how he wants to escape.

    He’s behaving feminine-energy for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) that’s how he is and he will never change. 2) that’s how he’s learned to relate to you.

    These tools (feeling messages, leaning back) work because they get us out of our head and into our bodies.

    When I use a feeling message, I literally have to sit back in my chair first, connect with my body and then figure out what I’m feeling.

    Pause. Lean back. Feel. Express with total honesty.

    Do you have Modern Siren? That program is so great for learning how to connect tangibly with our bodies and feelings.

    And ladies, I swear, Rori doesn’t pay me to plug her programs (haha). I just am a true believer. 😉

  184.  #184Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Siena, thank you! I know I’ve shared a lot of sordid stuff on here about Ryan, but he has so many rich qualities as well. I know he is in process just as we all are. He works really hard to be the best person he can be, and he is always in transition. He has schizophrenia, and it is a huge handicap for him in developing a healthy relationship. I am willing to work with him in his shortcomings if he is willing to work with me in mine.

    I deeply appreciate everyone’s support on here.

    Getting back to our conversation yesterday about looks, what I was trying to say with having been slender and looked at and overweight and ignored is that all the while, I WAS THE SAME PERSON INSIDE!!! People would talk to me at both phases and give the pat answers. They thought because I was slender and attractive I would have no problem becoming a wife.

    No one seemed to comprehend that I was still broken inside and totally lacked relational skills. Now I am overweight and, even tho I’m still a piece of work, I have far better relational skills now than ever. Plus I’ve come a long way inside to heal all the damaged places from childhood. Now I just need to lose the weight again to go along with it, and I’ll be where I want to be!

    As for looks on men, it is not my #1 priority. The man I admired most in the past was probably 400 lbs and balding. If he had been single, I would have accepted him that way. But I feel confident in saying it is all right for looks to be somewhat of a factor. It IS, afterall, a (future) physical relationship, along with spiritual, intellectual, and emotional. I don’t feel good to be with a man who is shorter than me. And, I’ve tried it, but I never got past it. I used to be an underdog rescuer, and I still tend to be. But I learned the hard way I can love everyone in the world, but that doesn’t mean I have to marry everyone. I can choose my partner, and it’s not only okay, but healthy, for me to choose a match who is where I want him to be spiritually, intellectually, emotionally, and physically.

    How do you feel about that anyone?

  185.  #185Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Ha ha Brenda! I feel amused that our suggestions for what TG could say to texter sounded so similar. I didn’t see what you wrote until after I wrote mine but they were almost exactly the same.

    I too feel so happy that Ryan called. I feel so so happy for you!

    As for CD-ing MM, I was trying to think of a way I could communicate to him that I am available but honestly it felt exhausting. I feel more inclined to focus on taking care of myself right now. Everything I thought of just felt like leaning forward. Like Siena said, let him fight for me.

  186.  #186Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Oh Shannon, you’re TOTALLY right! I wish I still had my post it note that quoted something Rori said about cheating.

    She said something like, “we’re cheating him! We’re cheating him out of what? Our true selves. Our true feelings and full sense of honor for ourselves and our full self esteem.”

    so what you said about admitting to outside attractions sounds right (and feels totally scary). It’s like preempting the physical cheating by expressing exactly how we feel.

    And you know what? We all have attraction to other people. It’s almost like not admitting it is lying when everyone knows it’s true.

    I’m not saying that a couple should make that a central part of their relationship, “today I felt attracted to x, y and z”. But if there’s a REAL attraction, then yes – expressing it is probably a good idea.

    I dunno. I wonder what Tinque would say here? She’s the expertess in this stuff.

  187.  #187Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Siena, you are really insightful about TGs man relating with feminine energy. I didn’t see that at all. Yet as soon as you said it, it struck a chord with me in relation to Ryan. I WANTED him to operate in masculine energy from the door. Yet he was leaning waaaaay back and letting me do all the intiating. I kept trying to lean back, but my skills there weren’t well enough developed to use. I had been operating too long in my boy energy as a single woman surviving (ie, earning income, moving entire households, driving myself everywhere). He kept taking the girl role and I didn’t have Rori’s tools ingrained enough to draw on them at a moment’s notice.

    This time around, I’m determined to lean back as far as it takes, even if I have to hang upside down to lean back! LOL! What that would look like, seriously, is to stay silent for a year if that’s what it would take. But he called me last night, so it looks like my leaning back is drawing him back into the relationship bubble! Yay!!!!!! I feel so happy about that!

    Here’s another comment about looks…in college, when I was slender, there was an outrageously handsome man, Monty. I loved his name, and it matched his looks! He was 6’6″, and that really appealed to me too! I was friends with his gorgeous 5’10” sister, and I was her friend before I ever even met Monty, so I felt good that I genuinely liked Heather, and I wasn’t just relating to her to get to him.

    He was in a class with me, and at first I was very excited. Then I saw how he was used to being the spoiled, handsome rich boy and he just let everyone else do the work while he took it easy. I didn’t respect him for that.

    Then one time Heather initiated the three of us going out to eat. He was very snobby to me, and I lost all attraction to him. That was one of many lessons I had in the past that looks aren’t everything. I started to ignore him as much as he ignored me, and that’s the way I truly wanted it.

  188.  #188Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I was just reminded of a moment this weekend with #1CD that made me feel really secure.

    We were walking together, and walked past 2 gorgeous women. I mean, drop-dead gorgeous. I noticed them (of course!) and he did too.

    But what he did made me feel really secure. He looked at them, and then just averted his eyes, and moved forward with me.

    He didn’t try to pretend that he didn’t see them, and he didn’t gawk.

    His reaction to me was the absolute best thing he could have done. I remember thinking, “now, this is the kind of man I can trust.” Of COURSE there are going to be beautiful women everywhere (I’m in a beach town in So CA, they’re EVERYWHERE). It’s what he does with them (or not, haha) that’s important.

    I love good men!

  189.  #189Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Bren, it’s so great that you recognize that with Ryan! I don’t know him, but it may be that he’s a fem energy guy, and unable to operate in masculine energy.

    Yes, he’s moved into your relationship bubble, but he may not be able to deal with it if you are also there.

    I don’t want to discourage you, but I want you to remain fully charged with your own self esteem.

    I guess what I’m saying is that – no matter what he does, it’s about him. Not about you. You will always be a beautiful goddess!

  190.  #190Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Siena and SS:

    thanks so much for your feedback. It feels good to know that other sirens have gone through something similar. I feel relieved to know that I’m not alone in this.

    Siena you said…”it’s all about choosing yourself in the end anyway… the guy (as long as he’s a good, decent man who loves you) doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.”

    I feel in agreement with this…in theory. When it comes to applying it in my life, I tend to lean more towards the what if’s. But in reality I do agree that it’s not really about the particular man. Thanks for reminding me of this.

    Honestly SS, if MM was stepping up, I would date him in a second. But right now he is not. I don’t know if that is out of respect for LI or if he just isn’t interested. But either way, the uncertainty is making me feel crappy, and pining, and crappy. So i realized it feels better right now to just let it go. If the opportunity comes up to communicate to him that I feel a curiosity and attraction, I will but in the meantime I need to focus on me. I think that I may have gotten lax in my Rori skills here. I thought that because I was dating another man, I wouldn’t get stupid and obsessed with him but it looks like I did anyway. Oh well, I love that I did that and now I feel ready to get back on my horse.

    I feel so curious to know more about what’s going on with you. I wasn’t around here much for most of your time with fab kisser and I feel out of the loop with what happened. I feel curious about what you are feeling now. I feel excited to witness your daring fast. It feels likely to me that it will actually attract more men to you. That feels fun!

  191.  #191Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:26 am

    About cheating, here’s how Kenny and I handled it…we openly share our feelings about other people. He’s practically my dating coach! What makes the difference? He’s secure in himself, and he’s taught me to be secure in myself in that area.

    Did you ever hear “Affirmation”, by Savage Garden? It says, “I believe that trust is more important than monogamy”.

    Kenny and I agreed early on in our relationship that we would be completely open and honest with each other, even in this area. It has really paid off, and it is WHY we are still friends after 10 years long distance!

    Just to give you an idea, we’ll be sitting in the visiting room at the prison, and he’ll say, “Whew, she’s got some tits on her!”

    I’ll just kind of chuckle and say, “Yeah, she sure does!” I feel utterly secure in his love! It truly doesn’t phase me in the least. I KNOW in my heart that even if he were free, he wouldn’t want to be with any other woman but me. My issue is just that I love him but I am not in love with him.

    At other times, he’ll say, “Oooh, that dude has the hots for you!” He is the one who helped me realize when men are looking at me with attraction! I had been oblivious to it previously! And then he just laughs about it. One of the big things I learned from Kenny is that you can have all different levels of relationships with men. It really isn’t all one way or another, and Rori agrees with that in her “third way”, of circular dating!

  192.  #192Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Siena: I love men like that! It feels so good and respectful!

  193.  #193Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:32 am

    I love Savage Garden. Their “truly madly deeply” song is a “manifestor” song for me. What I mean is that I use that song to make me FEEL great about attracting love into my life.

    It’s worked twice before. The first time was with The Man. Unfortunately, he didn’t have staying power.

    The second time… well, we’re still working it out.

  194.  #194Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Siena, thanks for your encouragement and feedback about Ry Guy. This boy vs girl energy has become a major issue in our relationship! He seriously confused me and admittedly gave me mixed messages at every turn!

    He would ask me about my feelings for him up front, except he’d do it in a hidden way, by leading me into a place of pain. He’d lead me on, habitually, then when I responded to his love with my love, he’d tell me it’s just a friendship. It was all operating out of distrust, and when he was talking about not spending time with me, I’d cry, and my feelings would come out all over the place of how much I love him. Keep in mind, I had VERY LITTLE experience before this in real relationships. Many of my firsts were with Ryan.

    It’s hard to describe the nature of our relationships in a few words. Let me try to summarize here…he would let me or hurt me into taking the emotional lead, and then he would fall back, rarely stating his true emotions. At the times he did, he was beautiful. I remember once he knelt in the middle of the bed while I was approaching the bed and said, “I love you!” His emotions were so deep, they showed all over his face, eyes, and in his voice!

    After he would encourage me to lead in every way, he would punish me or withdraw for leading. If I leaned back, to allow him to lead, he’d lean back further. It became clear over time that he resented me leading, and yet he still prompted me to lead. So this is a central thing that led to us getting out of sync with each other.

    He has more girl energy than the average man, yes. But I believe, at least at that time, that he was attempting to establish mind control over me. He wanted me to follow him thru his passive-aggression. Really weird to describe, because it’s very deep psychologically and out of the norm.

    At this stage, I’ve totally called him on it, and I know enuff now how to protect myself if he says or does anything outside a normal, healthy romance. I will simply step out if he becomes hurtful again.

    I will give him another chance to prove his love because I am seriously in love with him!

  195.  #195Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Hmmm, the cheating and expressing attractions topic…

    I feel a little stuck because I did have the “no girlfriend” talk with LI. I told him that I really like him and I want to continue spending time with him but that I do feel attractions for other men and I want to let my heart move at it’s own pace. This discussion went on for about a week with him resisting. He asked me how I would feel if the situation were reversed. He said he thought if he told me that, I would pull away. He wanted acknowledgement that he was willing to stick around even though I told him I still wanted to date other people. We agreed that we would both be open to others and that we would do it in a way that was respectful of each other. No flirting with others when we are out together…stuff like that. We agreed that we would be sexually exclusive and if we were feeling like wanting to be sexual with someone else, we would let the other person know and reevaluate our situation then.

    I don’t feel comfortable telling him that I am specifically attracted to MM as they interact quite a bit.

    Blah blah, I feel worried I am giving unneeded details and I will turn people off from helping me. I love my insecure feelings!

    Thanks sirens

  196.  #196Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Siena, that’s cool about Truly, Madly, Deeply! I love that whole album! “I think I loved you before I knew you” is especially meaningful to me, because Ryan is 15 yrs younger and I believe I dreamed him into life! 🙂 Happy tears!

    Also about looking at other women, I told Ryan he was welcome to look at the nude art he enjoys, and I agree with him that it does a man’s soul good. He seemed surprised and happy that I told him I didn’t have issues with him admiring other women. I said, “They ARE beautiful! They’re creations of God! I enjoy looking at a handsome man, too!” it’s about trust and respect, isn’t it?

  197.  #197Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:44 am


    I feel really terrible reading that last post.

    I consider to myself,

    How could I be totally genuine, authentic, open and vulnerable with someone who may flip into that behavior at any given moment? How could I trust him?

    Oh, I feel heartsick.

    And I’m not judging you at all. We love who we love. But we choose who we stay with.

  198.  #198Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:46 am

    LG – you’re cute!

    You had the open discussion… I don’t think you have to go further. Maybe if you were married to LI, it would be appropriate. (Still waiting for Tinque to weigh in.)

    But you’ve already put the no girlfriend on the table…

    What if you leaned forward with MM and asked him to coffee?

  199.  #199Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Siena, it was beyond unhealthy. It was sick. I realize that. I will NOT stay with him if it remains, and that is one reason he has been staying away from me, to protect me while he gets help. When he first started staying away from me last November, he said, “I want you to avoid me until I get free of the entities”…except he used the D word. 🙂 He himself loves women and has a soft heart. Schizophrenia means split personality. The other part of himself is the ugly part. If it remains, I won’t remain. I will only stay with him if he is free. He is working on it. He accepts me with my physical and emotional barriers, and I accept him with his spiritual barriers…while he is working on it, and I am working on mine.

    Messed up, I know, but the point is I DO know, and I am not going around with blinders.

  200.  #200Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:51 am

    okay I feel better Brenda. haha, I was seriously heartsick!

  201.  #201Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Siena, is it appropriate at times to lean forward and ask a man to coffee? I am still trying to understand the difference between being a rock star diva and leaning forward in an unhealthy way. Hmmm.

    Laughing goddess, like Siena told me when I first started on here, spam away! Writing it out is how we discover ourselves and heal and grow and learn!!

  202.  #202Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 9:57 am

    I have spent many months being seriously heartsick! I am at this place of awareness combined with acceptance only after hours and hours of deep thought, prayer, feeling, counseling, and being on Siren Island.

    I will set my boundaries as issues arise. And he knows it. I don’t know if he is going anywhere with our friendship now or not. I am just preparing myself. It is significant that he called, and he didn’t text. He’s been texting only for months.

  203.  #203Siena on June 2, 2010 at 9:57 am

    So last night I looked up 5 year man on Facebook. He was my FB friend for a while before I came to Siren Island, but I unfriended him because – even after 2 years apart – it still made me sick to see all the women on his Wall.

    So I was looking at his pics. He’s seriously a hottie. I mean, a really great looking man! But he treated me badly.

    He invited other women on our date (that was my last straw, I left after that). He would openly flirt with the waitress, he would gawk walking down the street, we were on vacation in another state and he called another woman… it goes on and on.

    The thing is – it was all totally my fault! He kept telling me he wasn’t committed to me, and I just didn’t hear it. I thought it meant that I should try harder (OMG, haha! That’s so dumb!)

    Anyway, I understand how it feels to have blinders on because of looks or chemistry. It’s a terrible feeling. Never again!

  204.  #204Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Siena: I feel thankful for your mentioning of manifesting. Deep down, I feel certain that none of this is really about the details of what’s going on in my life. Instead, I feel bad because I’m not feeling connected to god or my higher self or my happiness. It feels like the more I try to sort through the details the more stuck I get. I wonder if it would feel better to just forget all that and focus on making myself feel good. Reestablishing my connection…my trust and knowing that everything will be okay.

    Brenda: Rori says that when we really step in to our feminine energy, we often lose attraction for the man that we were so wanting to have back in our lives. I keep getting that feeling whe I read about Ryan. I felt the same way about This man I have been pining over for two years. I wanted him so badly. I loved him so much but once I got out there and cd-ed and felt what it was like to be treated as a goddess, my attraction for him disappeared. I still appreciate him as a friend but his feminine energy feels so unattractive to me now. I seriously feel shocked that I was attracted to him for so long. Now I feel bored and grossed out and honestly kind of sorry for him.

    I dunno if this will happen for you, but it really is possible that you will lose your attraction for him as you realize what you really deserve.

  205.  #205Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Brenda, re asking to coffee.

    It would just be an experiment. For me, sometimes I lean so far back that I start to create something exciting that doesn’t exist (I have a vivid imagination), and thinking that I “can’t” do something only makes me want to do it more.

    So when I suggest leaning forward and asking someone to coffee or calling, it’s really just to break a bubble of imagination or to remind myself that I have options.

    Leaning forward doesn’t work (in my experience), but sometimes it takes a physical reminder to remember that and break the bubble.

  206.  #206Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 10:02 am

    LG: if MM was stepping up, I would date him in a second. But right now he is not.

    That statement sort of jumped out at me. He’s just like any other guy in the universe right now. And guessing why he’s not stepping up is futile.

    If I’m curious about another man, then it might feel good to consider what I feel lacking from my current situation. What is it that just doesn’t feel perfect?

    At the same time, I’d want to take a break from thinking about this too much. I’m lazy that way. 🙂 There’s no need to rush into a decision. When something is telling me to consider other options, then I need to hold off locking myself in or taking that next step.

    As to your Mr. Fab Kisser questions, we aren’t talking anymore. Towards the end, everything felt really weird. He wouldn’t contact me by phone or make a date to talk, so I stopped responding to his emails. He was criticizing something near and dear to my heart (my church/pastor). Saying things like “I know this will make you mad but… ” and then telling me anyway. Grrr. I felt distracted by his tactics. It’s really hard to explain.

    Honestly I don’t care if I talk to him anymore. I know God was telling me to stop seeing him, so I feel relieved that it’s over. In the end, we were not evenly yoked faith-wise. And I need a man who I can respect and who can lead me. With him, I felt like I was helping him, which put him squarely in the friend box.

    Oddly enough, I was pulling into my driveway last night and a can of Fresca was sitting in the road in front of my mailbox. That’s his fav drink. I felt a little creeped out and wondered if he came by. Did he leave it intentionally? And if it wasn’t him, then how random that a can of Fresca was sitting there. WEIRD!

  207.  #207Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:03 am

    “Instead, I feel bad because I’m not feeling connected to god or my higher self or my happiness.”

    Yes LG! That’s what I was trying to say earlier about “it’s not about the man.” You said it much better and more clearly.

  208.  #208Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:09 am

    hmmmm why am I still triggered by 5 year man? It’s been almost 3 years since I’ve seen him!

    I forgive you B. Completely, totally. No attachments, no bonds – all gone, all done. I forgive you 100%.

    And I forgive myself for allowing myself to be treated that way.

    I’m clearing the space for real love and intimacy in my life. The real thing. Real.

    Thank you!

  209.  #209Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 10:11 am

    LG, I appreciate your feedback. I am weighing him very carefully with my heart. The thing is, it’s not cut and dry about the feminine energy in him. He admittedly has more feminine energy than the average man. Yet I find him MORE controlling and willful than almost anyone I ever met! It’s just that he controls with passive aggression! So it’s not readily detectable!

    I even discussed it with his mother early on in our relationship, saying, “Wow, he has serious control issues!” At first she didn’t see it, then about three weeks later, she came back to me and said, “You know, you were right. I really thought about it and he DOES have control issues! I am his own mother and I can’t believe I never saw that before!”

    When I went with him to New York City last June, I was in the thick of Modern Siren and Commitment Blueprint. I was determined to practice leaning back. After we got out of a meeting, we stood in the lobby of a hotel and he asked, “What do you want to do now?”

    I said, “I feel reallllly hungry!” It was 4 pm and all I’d eaten that day was strawberries. I waited for him to make a move. He didn’t. He waited for me to make a move, as I had in the past. I didn’t. I stood there looking at him. Finally I said, “Where do you want to go?”

    He said, “I don’t know, I guess we should find a restaurant.” He still stood there, expecting me to take the lead.

    I said, “Yeah, that sounds good. Okay.” He looked at me expectantly some more! It was really kind of funny! I just overnight did my best to lean back! LOL!

    Finally after about 5 minutes of back and forth standing there, he led the way to a restaurant. Then afterwards, we decided to see the sights…we were near Ground Zero. He got a local map at the hotel desk, and I turned one down when they offered it to me. I let him lead, even when I could tell he had lost his way. I could tell he was drinking it up!

    Then on the way home, I was driving (he had driven on the way up, and it was his car). I started nodding off. He asked, “Are you tired?” I said, “Yeah, but I’m all right.” A minute later he said, “I want you to pull off at that rest stop!” I said, “Ooh, I like the way you are taking charge, there!”

  210.  #210Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 10:16 am


    I can feel my energy, but he can’t since we have not been in the same place for a long time.

    Ok – so here it goes, this is really scary! This is what i sent:

    “Yuck, no! I am excited to learn survival skills from you. Urgh, work is getting insane, but it would feel great if you give me a call when you have some time so we can catch up in person. Ps – have a great birthday.”

    I feel comfortable with it, and it ends the text convo, and I got to wish him a happy b-day.

    But to Sienna’s point. It is weird, he kept coming to me with some very masculine energy, and I kept rewarding him with appreciating, receptivity, and responsiveness. I am not sure what happened to make him move to this feminine energy (but it is closer to what he displayed last time we dated briefly), I was surprised with the stepup ness when he did that.

    Maybe it is just him, or him and me.

  211.  #211Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 10:18 am

    thanks for supporting me in spamming. It does feel really good to talk it out even though I sometimes feel insecure about doing it.

    Siena: I was going to ask him out for coffee but then I started to feel exhausted trying to figure out how to say it and I realized that I really needed to get in the vortex first. I feel totally okay with being a rockstar and leaning forward as long as I FEEL like a rockstar. I don’t feel that way right now. Right now I feel needy and insecure. When I feel better I may do it. Luckily our lives are pretty intertwined. We collaborate on this creative project together and see each other at least once a week if not more. That makes me feel patient because I know he won’t just fade out of my life any time soon.

    I totally resonate with your description of five year man. I was in a similar relationship myself with a man who was constantly looking, pursuing other women. He told me he wasn’t committed and I kept trying harder and harder. I feel so grateful to be out of that loop! I first found Rori when I was with him. Started out with Toxic Men. I feel so glad that I will never put myself in a situation like that again!


  212.  #212Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Siena, I really like what you said about leaning forward, your vivid imagination, and experimenting. I think a lot the same way you do! My imagination gets me in trouble too often! Like fantasizing I am in bed with a man and then seeing him the next day and trying to act casual! LOL!

    That’s sad about 5 year man dissing you like that. What a jerk! Glad you could forgive and let him go.

    Shannon, sorry Mr. Fab Kisser didn’t step up to the plate spiritually. That really is freaky about the can of Fresca. It sounds like it was him.

  213.  #213Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Thank you to everyone for your help! In the past, I would never tell him it makes me feel good that he did x,y or z. I would simply dictate.

    I like this better, and my guess is he will too!

  214.  #214Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Tallgirl, I like what you decided on writing him! Good job!

  215.  #215Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Siena: your being triggered by 5 year feels exactly like what you said. It feels like it’s coming up so you can clear out any old energy regarding him to make room for new love in your life. It feels like a cleansing. Congratulations! Your energy feels so bright and clean and clear, I feel certain you are on the path to having the relationship you want!

  216.  #216Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:32 am

    I’m feeling needy today too.

    #1CD just called (I need to think of a better name for him!) He’s out of state at a funeral.

    It’s still new with him, but I miss him! He didn’t want to chat on the phone, which is okay. He’s not a phone guy, I understand. I’m not really a phone person either. But it feels icky.

    And I feel weird missing someone I just met and have only been out with a few times.

    But we had such a great day on Saturday – spent the whole day together. When he kissed me goodnight, I felt a lurch in my heart of “don’t go!”.

    Uh oh.

    I need to go out with someone else.

    Frenchie keeps trying, maybe I’ll say yes to him. (yep, we still haven’t met)

  217.  #217Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:35 am

    okay, just texted Frenchie that I’ll go out with him.

  218.  #218Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 10:38 am

    go siena!

  219.  #219Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Siena, I don’t think it’s unusual to miss someone you just recently met. You feel connected with him, and that’s healthy! I also think it’s healthy that right away you think about CDing to level yourself out! Go, Siena!!

  220.  #220Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 10:39 am

    TG, it’s funny we both wrote “Go, Siena!” LOL!

  221.  #221Siena on June 2, 2010 at 10:40 am

    okay I feel better. CD#1 just sent me a couple of pics. He’s a visual guy, it’s completely obvious in what he writes to me and how he speaks, and in the fact that he keeps emailing me pictures.

    (I even received an email from him telling me the 5 things he liked about me… haha it was cute, I’ve never had a bulleted list of things that someone likes about me!)

    I’m an auditory person. I like to hear good things.

    sigh. I felt bad that he didn’t want to talk on the phone, but now I feel better that he sent me pics.

  222.  #222Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Yes SS, it feels futile to guess why he’s not stepping up. I feel exhausted by it. I feel thankful to have reached this point of exhaustion. I feel ready to let it go.

    I do wonder what it is that doesn’t feel perfect in my situation with LI. But I also feel lazy 🙂 it feels better to not lock myself in as you said and just not worry about it.

    With that said, I do have some thoughts about what it may be. For me, MM represents the man I would be with if I was living up to who I want to be. Honestly, I would have to step it up a bit in order to feel confident being in a relationship with him. It would feel necessary to take better care of myself, keep my home more in order, be more confident. I think that I would have to be more put together to be with him… That i would finally have to do all the things I’ve been wanting to do for myself anyway.

    With LI, I feel a little too content and lazy. He seems to just love me unconditionally. He doesn’t mind that I don’t always look my best or sometimes my house is a wreck.

    I feel more motivated when I have a challenge. I’m feeling curious if this is kinda sick or unhealthy thinking on my part. Using a man to motivate myself to make the changes that I want in my life.

    You said that you feel relieved that FK is not in your life anymore. That feels pretty awesome to me. I feel so good about following feelings of relief. They feel like indicators that I am on the right track.

    Super weird about the fanta!!!!

  223.  #223Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Siena: way to use the CD-ing to your advantage when you see needy feelings coming up! I feel inspired.

    Also, I feel super annoyed with talking on the phone even when it’s with someone I really like. I feel hopeful that you won’t take it personally. Of course, it feels good to honor your feelings and needs, so if phone talk is important to you, that’s important to acknowledge. But wow, it sounds like he is leaning forward and doing some really sweet things. That feel great! I feel so happy for you.

  224.  #224Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 11:03 am

    I’m still catching up on reading posts today, but wanted to write this. I think maybe Siena and Brenda are right about this being a good opportunity for me to open up my feelings more with him, but it is very scary.

    I was hoping his weekend in the hamptons with her would bomb, but he texted that they had a good time and he also said, “I like her a lot. Very fun.”

    I texted back: “I feel happy for you — I know how great it feels to have that. But I also feel jealous and sad that I didn’t get to be with you.”

    His reply: “Who says you won’t get to be with me? :)”

    Of course that created several different feelings for me . . . I would love to hear any of your thoughts on this . .. I have a couple different things I am considering saying….

  225.  #225Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 11:06 am

    p.s. Good news — I had my six-month oncology check-up this morning, and am still cancer free! Yay! 🙂

  226.  #226Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Brenda: I felt good reading about your leaning back on the NY trip. I also felt confused when you said yes he is more feminine energy than most men but he is also more controlling. I feel confused if you are equating controlling with masculine. Honestly, controlling and passive-aggressivness feels like feminine energy to me…like the negative expression of feminine energy. I hope that makes sense.

    Anyway, I feel worried that it will seem like I’m trying to talk Ryan down. I’m not, I just feel so hopeful that you will find what you are looking for and will be treated like a goddess and I felt reminded my my situation where I lost all attraction for feminine energy guy when I had the experience of being treated well and led by a sensitive yet masculine energy man.

  227.  #227Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:10 am

    ohhh haha Lucy! He’s a playa!

    I laughed when I read his response. Time to don your Rockstar outfit! He’s totally full of his own stuff!

    “Okay playa! Who says I’d want to get with you AFTER you’ve had your fun? I gotta run, have fun!”

    You’ve told him how you feel, and now I would TOTALLY back up and date someone else. He totally took your feelings and made it about him. That feels icky. CD Lucy!

  228.  #228Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Lucy, it feels great to hear your results are cancer free! That’s wonderful news, something to celebrate!

  229.  #229Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 11:21 am

    The last month or so I’ve been feeling like I don’t want to CD and I really haven’t. Like Mary, I’ve been thinking maybe I’m just a one man kind of woman as even in my CDing there is always one guy I’m more interested in than the rest and I start to feel like I only want to concentrate on him. (I think that word “concentrate” is very telling…) All the other guys kind of fade into the background and I don’t get online and respond to emails, I just kind of drop off the face of the online dating planet.

    Lately though (the last couple of weeks), there hasn’t been anyone that stands out over any of the rest in my heart and mind. In fact, there hasn’t been anyone who seems like he even qualifies as a possible forever man. I’m finding that this is a very good thing. Some of them are great conversationalists, so I’ve been chatting with them anyway. It feels liberating. But I feel a little cautious – a little afraid. Why do I feel like I’m leading guys on when I talk to them and date them when I know in my heart that they are “practice men”?

    Something I need to work on. I have a date tonight and another one Friday. I feel excited. I feel happy. I feel like I am finally really making progress and it feels so good! I think that I am finally catching on to this CDing and I am beginning to see how Rori says it gets easier and the quality of men gets better. I feel so excited! I feel like my heart is soaring! I feel scared that this is all going to crash down on me. I feel scared. I feel scared that I am going to get hung up on someone and I don’t want that. I want to experience this powerful circular dating. I want to feel this feminine power of feeling magnetic and adored. My confidence is growing.

    I feel like I am finally getting the hang of leaning back. I’m leaning back from the last guy I was getting hung up on – I’ll call him LVMan. He’s the one who was supposed to be moving here from Vegas, but now it’s up in the air. He’s been withdrawing for a couple of weeks now and I kept leaning forward. I was starting to feel that old panic come on me, so I sent him a feeling message telling him a bunch of feeling stuff. And a bunch of other stuff. Like “this is a big change from when you didn’t want to stop talking to me. And “I don’t want to expend anymore energy on someone who doesn’t seem very interested in talking to me anymore.”

    Was that masculine energy? It feels a little like masculine energy now. But it also felt open and genuine and honest which are the areas I am really working on. – I haven’t heard much from him since then. I find myself wondering if I was shutting down. Which was my old habit. I don’t feel shut down though. I feel very open. I feel open to whatever happens. Whether he chooses to step up or not, I feel open to either scenario. I’m leaning back. I’m feeling more comfortable with it everyday. He is less and less in my thoughts. I don’t feel like I am obsessing about him. That used to be the hardest thing. I would cut back my contact and wait for them to get ahold of me, but then I would obsess about it. It feels so good to be making progress. I hope he follows up, but I’m not betting the farm on it. If he doesn’t it won’t break my heart. It won’t trigger frustration and anger like it did in the past. I feel like a beautiful flowering tree in the spring that is opening up to the longer sunshiney days, extending my branches, flowering beautifully, being more open to everyone; not just men. I feel like I am growing so beatifully. It feels AWESOME!

  230.  #230Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Congratulations Lucy!!!! That is awesome news!

  231.  #231Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Congrats on the clean bill of health Lucy!

    Gosh! I don’t know what to think about that text. I mean, as Rori said, CD-ing comes naturally to men so maybe he’s being the rockstar that we all wish to be. But at the same time…I dunno.

    What feelings came up for you when you read his text?

  232.  #232Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Lucy: Yeah on being cancer free!!!! Woohoo!! I like Siena’s response. Mine would likely have been “sloppy seconds? I don’t think so.”

    So here’s some weirdness. I go to my mailbox and inside are two cards from Mr. Fab Kisser. I can tell they were mailed so I know he wasn’t here after the Fresca incident. FREAKY!

    The 1st letter felt great to read. He was talking about all the fun stuff we’ve done and how he loves me so. The 2nd letter sucked. It was all about the same ol’ crap and how he’s telling me what I should do and how he’s talked to some of his friends (one of whom goes to my church) and how THEY reacted… which basically made me wrong. Well duh Sherlock, they heard one side of the story from YOU. And guess what Mr. Fab Kisser, you’ve got the guts to talk to them but NOT to me.

    I feel hella defensive and MAD.

    I can’t even fathom what to say. I want to shut the door on this and not think of it anymore. At the same time, is there a message here? What the hell?

    Dang I feel furious.

    Vampire scream…

  233.  #233Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Wait Shannon, TWO letters? Like he wrote and mailed one and then wrote and mailed the other? I feel confused… can you elaborate?

  234.  #234Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 11:29 am


    I am totally understanding exactly what you are saying. In today’s modern world, men most likely are challenged with feminine energy, just as we are challenged with having masculine energy.

    I don’t think it is so easy to just say, I am going to be feminine and for men to say, I am going to me masculine.

    I am experiencing this with text man. He wants to step up, and at time he has, and then he has issues. I don’t think this is because I have masculine energy when I am out on a date with him, but I think he can sense that I am much further along in life.

    I am more experienced and more accomplished. While when I am with him, I enjoy his masculine engergy, I think on some level he is both attracted and repelled by who I fundementally am.

    I think if I see him, I should express my feelings about the dicotomy.

    And the feelings are:
    I feel confused trying to read what is going on with us.

    I feel excited to get to know him

    I feel frustrated that there seems to be a barrier/disconnect which I have no idea how to describe or explain

    What do you think?

  235.  #235Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 11:32 am

    S Shannon,

    Can you tell which letter he wrote first. I feel interested that he is doing something similar to what I would do in the past… something feminine (or in his case masculine – being what feels like overbearing to me) and then something completely opposite. Just a random thought.

    Which one did he send first? Did he send them both on the same day?

  236.  #236Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Sweetpea I totally hear you about CD. All those feelings you expressed (beautifully btw) is how I feel about it too.

    I just keep remembering that Rori calls CDing a FT job. Which kindof sucks, because I have another FT job, so I feel pretty overwhelmed a lot.

  237.  #237Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I came across and interesting thing on a dating site newsletter this weekend. A blog where men are getting much the same kind of advice as we get from Rori. It felt interesting to read, but felt kind of icky at the same time. I found myself thinking… Wow. I don’t know how things would work out if I ran into a guy who takes this advice. But… he seems to be encouraging them to use masculine energy, so perhaps this is a good thing?

  238.  #238Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:34 am

    TG, I LOVE your feeling message. You go girl! What’s holding you back from texting him that next time he texts you – no matter what he says?

  239.  #239Ankita on June 2, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Hello everyone

    I received a notice for a tele seminar of 1 hr in my inbox last night…
    If any of you are interested, you can register here…

  240.  #240Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Siena – Thank you! It feels good to hear.

    CDing does feel like a FT job. It feels like I am getting into my groove now though, instead of being in the training stage where it saps all your energy trying to figure out all of the nuances of the office and the new boss, and the communication, etc. I feel hopeful that it will continue to feel more natural and easier.

    What do you think? Has that been your experience?

  241.  #241Ankita on June 2, 2010 at 11:38 am


    Can you please elaborate… I feel confused, but at the same time feel li’l curious…

  242.  #242Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Sweetpea, I go in stages. Sometimes it feels easy and natural, sometimes it’s like pulling teeth. Feels impossible.

    But, in a weird way, I don’t really want it to get easier. I want it to lead me to my guy. I don’t want to CD forever (not in this way anyway), so I want it to be so uncomfortable that I am constantly being triggered and forced to work through my stuff so that Mr. Right shows up faster.

    If I get too comfortable, I feel afraid that I will be dating like this for a long time, which is something I totally don’t want.

  243.  #243Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 11:42 am


    Well, fear is holding me back from having the actual conversation. And so is the fact that I am much more advanced in maturity and communication. I don’t want to overwhelm him.

    I also think that is a good conversation to have in person so I can see him and his body language.

    I know I will feel like I am scaring him off, but in reality, I would already be scaring him off by not being honest about my feelings.

    I am already taking baby steps to add about how I feel in the texts, that is a really big step.

  244.  #244Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 11:43 am


    wow! It felt awesome reading your post and hearing that you are in such a great place. I felt a resonance when you described your situation with LV man. I had a similar situation with my current LI. We met and quickly hit it off. We spent a few weeks together and then he left for a few months to go on a trip he had planned out of the country. I wrote some feeling messages like you did and he didn’t really respond back much. I had pretty much written him off. I felt the same as you described…kinda sad things didn’t work out with him but not too sad and excited about future prospects of CD-ing but not excited about anyone in particular. I jsut felt good about myself and where I was at.

    Well when LI returned from his trip, he was super in to me. I told him I had given up on us and his lack of putting energy towards me while he was gone didn’t feel good. He said that at the time he was just figuring some things out and he didn’t want to lead me on when he wasn’t sure what he was going to be doing with his life. But as he took that time to figure his life out, he realized that he wanted to pursue me and he did that. He really stepped up.

    It feels like you are in a great place and only good things can happen from here!

  245.  #245Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 11:46 am

    1st letter said “Part I” on the back. 2nd letter said “Part II” on the back.

    I feel amused right now. Drama!

    He’s writing all this crap and yet unable to CALL me or speak to me. Seriously. BE A MAN.

    Ick. I feel sorry for him. If I say anything, it won’t be because I’m inspired to be with him, it will be to HELP him. And helping for me puts him squarely in the friend corner. Which is what I do NOT want.

    Dear God, I don’t want to deal with this non-sense. Can I get a well adjusted, grown-up man please?

  246.  #246Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:47 am

    TG it sounds like you’re doing great. And I agree with the “not overwhelming him” portion.

    Every once in a while, a Siren will post on this blog an email or recount of a convo she had with a guy where there were like, 150 feeling messages. And she’s surprised that he pulled away!

    It’s a good instinct to go slowly with him with feeling messages, and to pause in between each one to get his feedback.

  247.  #247Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Lucy, there was a song in college by Erasure called “Drama” that had a lyric that goes,

    “Just one psychological drama after another…”

    It popped into my head when I read your last post. You don’t need drama. You need a man!

  248.  #248Siena on June 2, 2010 at 11:52 am

    oh oops – that was for Shannon, not Lucy.

  249.  #249Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 11:55 am

    WTF SS? I feel curious to hear more. What is the message. It feeels like it is a powerful one due to how much it is triggering you. I’m curious too. Which one did he write first?

    Maybe the feeling message would be…

    I feel confused. It felt good to hear your perspective of the sweet times we had but then I felt hella mad when the topic of church came up. I want to make my own decisions about what is right for my spirituality and I want them to be respected.

  250.  #250Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Thanks, girls!

    Siena, it felt interesting to me that you thought he “took your feelings and made it about him.” I actually saw it just the opposite — that he was trying to reassure ME that maybe I could still have what I wanted (which, unfortunately, I was ambiguous about in my statement “sad that I didn’t get to be with you,” which he took as meaning sexually apparently, which is only part of what I meant.)

    The truth is — I have wanted to have sex with him from the moment we started connecting, relationship or not. That may seem weird, but it’s true — my sexual attraction to him is intense. However, after a couple months when he started writing to me in ways that were more tender and special, and more frequent, I began to feel something deeper and began to WANT MORE than just sex and friendship with him.

    We have both been upfront about wanting to have sex with each other. So when I wrote “I feel sad that I didn’t get to be with you” — he took that as meaning having sex and was telling me that it could still happen — I could still get that from him.

    How did I feel about what he wrote? First, I felt relieved that he responded to my feeling message at all — I had felt afraid that since he has a girlfriend he wouldn’t want any “drama” from me and would just ignore it.

    So first, relieved. Then amused (I laughed out loud.) Then excited. Then hopeful. Then confused. Then heart-achey (when I started going into my THOUGHTS.) Then curious.

    Here are my possible responses, and I feel open to hearing any thoughts from you all:

    1. I MEANT I feel sad that I didn’t get to be with you as your special girl – NOT as the outsider in a 3some! 😛


    2. I don’t want to be with a man who has a girlfriend.

    To those of you who said he’s a player — I thought a player was someone who was dishonest and deceitful and basically “cheated” on girls and tried to hide his behavior . . . not a guy who is upfront and open about what basically amounts to, as LG said, circular dating….????

  251.  #251Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    SS: or maybe

    “ya, we had some sweet times and that felt good. But the good feelings don’t outwiegh the bad ones that I get around our disagreements over the church. This just doesn’t feel good anymore.”

    and maybe the message for you is that you want someone that you resonate with spiritually.

  252.  #252Rori Raye on June 2, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Siena, you’ve GOT THIS!..Triggering yourself on purpose gets you to where you want to be faster! ….whoops, writing like a storm, going to jump off…love Rori

  253.  #253Rori Raye on June 2, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Sweetpea – yes – the “Inner Game” is the newest thing on “Pickup Artist” sites – all about masculine energy and my favorite phrase around masculine energy: “personal authority” – I think this all came from David Deida, who was WAY ahead of his time…Love, Rori

  254.  #254Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Oh Lucy, I like #1

  255.  #255Siena on June 2, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    …now I’m totally playing Erasure on my iTunes – so 1992! “No emotional ties, you don’t remember my name.”

    Lucy, CD applies to us women, not to men. It’s just a tool to use while we are dating someone who is making up his mind about whether he wants to step up to the plate with us for reals. It’s a tool to keep us centered in our femininity and sireness so that we don’t lean forward.

    In the beginning, it makes sense that he dates other women while you are just getting to know each other, but if he continues to date other women while you (or I) am on the sidelines – that’s a playa.

    He’s not allowed to CD… we have to!

    (That’s after the initial, getting to know you stage.)

  256.  #256Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    What does that even MEAN, “Who says you won’t get to be with me”????

    Um, to be honest, there is a little “hope springs eternal” voice inside me that says, “It means interloper girl is just a fling and you’re the one I really want and you’re gonna get to be with me in the end, so don’t worry sweet baby.”

    Lol. I feel like a hopeless, pathetic teenage dreamer!!!

  257.  #257Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    TG: I feel confused. Why are you sweating this guy when you don’t even feel like he is able to meet your level of communication and evolution? I feel confused!!!

  258.  #258Rori Raye on June 2, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Tallgirl10 – Think about Barbra Streisand – and some other major celebrities who are blissfully married to less stellar men. What is she doing that makes it work? It’s about realizing that though you are CEO amazing in your life – you’re still a girl with HIM. That HE’S the one who fulfills your womanly needs. He’s the president of your relationship…you’re not even the “co-president” – you’re the “vice-president.” And if you don’t like the way he’s running things…that’s where negotiation comes in, all my Tools. If you can’t respect a man – for REAL – then you shout “Next!” Love, Rori

  259.  #259Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Siena – u feel confused about the topic of men cd-ing. Thanks for explaining. I seem to remember Rori wrote about this. Need to refresh. I still am feeling resistant to accepting that they can’t cd and we can. This is a big one for me to wrap my head around. If you have more to say about it, I’d love to hear.

  260.  #260Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 12:14 pm


    I love that song!!!!!

    The taking the feeling messages slowly is also an issue for me as I learn to use them.

    I really do enjoy this man’s company and I am learning tons of lessons from him.

    The first being that this is not about me.

    SS – Men are who men are. They are not great communicators in general, so be careful to attribute that want onto someone who is not equipted to do that.

  261.  #261Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Siena – I meant to say I feel confused…not you. You seems to get it 🙂

  262.  #262Siena on June 2, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    LG, it’s a total double standard but it feels wonderful and feminine!

    Rori, thank you! My heart sings when I hear positive feedback from you!

  263.  #263Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Would you feel ok telling him both 1 & 2?

  264.  #264Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    I feel self-conscious of all my typos. I’m laying in the sun typing of my phone learning to love my “imperfections”

  265.  #265Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Yeah, see, I agree with that whole allowing yourself to be triggered on purpose thing — that’s what I have been doing since last fall in all areas of my life and it really does accelerate things….

    Which is part of what I have been feeling with TN man — that the triggering is GOOD — it forces me to deal with feelings that come up in a crazy situation. I also had a weird thought that maybe I could purposely trigger my “left out” wound by going for the 3some — in order to feel it to heal it. But maybe that’s taking it a little too far!!!

  266.  #266Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    LG – I too, have a hard time wrapping my mind around my being able to CD, but them not being able to. It feels wonderful, but it doesn’t feel like a realistic expectation to me.

    It feels scary. I don’t know why. But I am going to have to sit down and ask myself if it’s because the guys I dated in the past did date other women – while I didn’t date other men. And after reading Rori’s last two postings re: sex w/ your ex & practicing intimately opening up, I am thinking I attracted guys like that because I wasn’t really ready for a relationship. How is it she put it? …I’ll have to go read it again. So maybe it’s not that it’s unrealistic, but that it was only unrealistic for the men I was dating and sabotaging my love with.

  267.  #267Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Sweetpea, thanks, not sure how I feel about saying both of them…..

  268.  #268Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Wow, Brenda, I feel great reading this!

    “I wish I hadn’t let Ryan get away with so much texting. He finally called me last night after a long time, and I’m going to not ever let it get back to texting again.”

    You go girl!!!

  269.  #269Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    TG: I respectfully disagree that men are not great communicators as I have met some pretty amazing ones.

    I feel curious if you feel like you can respect this man enough to surrender to him. If not, I’d say get out now. Or at least start really leaning back – and I mean energetically not giving him so much of your mental energy. He may surprise you but if not at least you won’t be wasting so much mental energy worrying about him.

  270.  #270Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Thank you Rori. His name was David, but I don’t think it was Deia (sp?). Maybe. It felt amusing to read and see that men have just as many questions as we do. It felt good to see their softer side and encouraging to hear that they are all looking for love and acceptance just like you say. It was on an online dating newsletter though… that was the part that scared me a little.

    Whoever was giving the advice really had some pretty good ideas. It was the comments some of the men were making that made me feel nervous. One guy said that his friend who is very successful in dating says he “always has 5 projects going (meaning women he’s dating).” Thus, my feeling of RED FLAG! But David came back laughing and said, in essence, “you can try that if you want to just date, but if you’re looking for a relationship I wouldn’t recommend it”.

  271.  #271Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    LG – I mean what I said, he is immature and not a good communicator. Very few men I have met are good at either. It is our job to help them with that, not as in leaning forward, but expressing ourselves for them to respond to. We are more advanced in feelings, and a lot of these issues come up because we want them to express feelings too, but that is considered feminine energy.

    Rori – I like and respect this man, it is he who is put off by who I am, not I. I am a million times softer than I used to be. I used to be very negative, and intellectually lord over men. I believed a man should love me from the first moment we started interacting and that anything less was a problem.

    I know now I have to validate myself, no one else can. However, I want to give this man a chance to step up. I do not fully understand why at times he steps up and other times he steps down. This does not have anything to do with me, I show up, I am responsive, I am receptive, and I am appreciative. That is my job, along with smelling good. Maybe he is unable to, or maybe he is unable to with me.

    I do not want to go into the spiral of self blame because he has been back more than once which means maybe his level of attraction is not enough……

    Thoughts – anyone?

  272.  #272Siena on June 2, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    haha I love this!

    “am responsive, I am receptive, and I am appreciative. That is my job, along with smelling good.”

  273.  #273Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I feel worried reading this:

    “Abraham Hicks says about how when we meet our mate, it’s supposed to feel easy. It feels smooth and obvious not like worrying and fretting.”

    Why do I feel worried? because that’s how it was with my ex-h before we were married — easy as pie, never a worry about how he felt, he was solidly pursuing me, obviously wanted me and only me, he led the way, initiated all the “talks,” bought the ring without me even knowing it was happening . . . I just reclined in the boat while he lavished attention on me….

    Yet it turned out to be disastrous . . .

    This feels scary.

    Maybe that experience — where everything went the way it’s “supposed” to go — is why TN man’s behavior doesn’t scare me away — it is the opposite of my ex-h’s behavior…..

  274.  #274Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Lucy: I get what you’re saying about challenging yourself and healing old wounds by experimenting with the 3some but honestly it doesn’t feel like the right option to me. Of course, only you know what’s best for you but it seems like you don’t just want sex with him, you want a connection and if you did the 3some you would end up feeling lousy about it.

  275.  #275Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Siena & TG – Thank you for pointing out that a man can feel “overwhelmed” by too many feeling messages. I have been trying to put my finger on my hesitation to use them a lot. A couple of feeling statements feels like enough to me.

    RE: my telling LVMan “this is a big change from when you didn’t want to stop talking to me. And “I don’t want to expend anymore energy on someone who doesn’t seem very interested in talking to me anymore.” Can either of you, or anyone else give me some ideas about how to say that better next time. I still feel like there was masculine energy there. I want to feel like all feminine energy when I am stating my boundaries.

  276.  #276Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    And can anyone help me identify why when I feel the most confident I feel like I express more masculine energy? Is that a hang up, or are there more feminine ways to express confidence?

  277.  #277Siena on June 2, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Lucy, perhaps the situation with your ex was right, but the guy was wrong. He did everything right, but that doesn’t make him the right guy. Or maybe he was the right guy, but there were things in your relationship that you two couldn’t work through?

  278.  #278Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    You Sirens said CDing is a full time job….CORRECTION…Keeping up with all you are saying here on Siren Island is a full time job! LOL!!!! I love it! You ladies are so wise and intelligent! Rori and Sirens, you have rocked my world!!

  279.  #279Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    TG – I love reading your postings. I too felt that men should love me from the first time they met me. I still feel like they do love me from the first time they meet me. I am just learning to keep the love going.

    Ok, well maybe it’s not love, but a very strong attraction to my body and my mind.

    I forgot for awhile how much I love men and their way of living. So uncomplicated. I feel most thankful for finding Rori because she has helped me to remember that. Well… that was off the point. But I’m still thankful.

  280.  #280Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    I agree with you Brenda! Is it great having someplace where we can express our feelings freely and feel loved and supported while doing it?

    Thank you all!!

  281.  #281Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    I meant to say “isn’t it great?” I guess it’s almost the same as is it?….

  282.  #282Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Okay! I just got MM’s message…why he is in my life! I feel very excited to get this!

    I feel unworthy of being with him. I feel like I am not good enough. And that feels horrible. I don’t feel that way based on anything he has done or said. It’s just my own stories and issues. And I feel good realizing that he is here show me that I want to love myself, to see that I am good enough. Wow wow wow!

    This feels good

  283.  #283Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Yes, LG, I am definitely leaning strongly toward NOT doing the 3some.

    Siena, my ex-h wanted me for his wife for his own “evil purposes” (one of which was so that ppl wouldn’t erroneously think he was gay since he was 32 and not married) — and he knew exactly what to do to snag a wife. He was determined to get me, so he pulled out all stops — which now, of course, makes me suspicious of men who do that. 🙁

  284.  #284Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    LG, “I feel unworthy of being with him. I feel like I am not good enough” — that was a major feeling for me with TN man, too.

  285.  #285Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Sweetpea, as to how to express your feeling message…I am a novice at this, but here are a few ideas:

    I feel sad. I feel neglected.

    I feel a lil bad and the truth is I feel a lil turned off by feeling ignored.


    Here is a quote I saved from a previous string:

    “I have needs that don’t fit in with your description of the relationship you say you want with me – which is a threesome – and I don’t exactly know how to talk to you about it. It would feel great to talk about how this happened and how you’re feeling, and when you want to do that, I’d love to talk with you about it, but until then, I don’t feel comfortable with the arrangement you’re suggesting.”

    Lucy, I also really liked Siena’s suggestion about the playa. He’s just having fun with you, and he wants to have fun back. What I suggested above might be a little too heavy for where he is at. He is feeling his testosterone, feeling on top of the world playing females against each other. There are loose definitions of what a playa is. Right now, he’s just in fun mode.

  286.  #286Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Lucy, I feel so sad. I feel sad that you are suspicious of what men do. Do you think that your ex-h was not so much into you as he just wanted to get married? That’s what it sounds like you are saying.

  287.  #287Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Sweetpea: from my understanding, you could tweak your feeling messages by omitting “you”. That would make them feel more feminine.

    For example:

    this doesn’t feel nearly as good as when we were talking all the time


    I feel better focusing on someone who is expressing interest in me

    this puts the focus on you not him.

  288.  #288Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 12:58 pm


    I agree, when I am most confident, I have a almost masculine energy too. Cocky, if you will.

    As to how to express what you said – “this is a big change from when you didn’t want to stop talking to me.” And “I don’t want to expend anymore energy on someone who doesn’t seem very interested in talking to me anymore.” These both seem pretty agressive and accusatory and seem to come from hurt. I know the feeling and have been there before.

    How about –
    “I feel unsure of what is going on between us. I don’t want to be in a relationship where both are not investing in getting to know each other. To me, a good relationship looks like XYZ. What do you think? What does a good relationship look like to you”

    Then listen. He may not say what you want to hear. Then you could say.

    I feel so appreciative that you shared that with me. I feel like I want to think about this so that I can make sure we always have constructive conversations.

    How would that feel to say?

  289.  #289Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Brenda – I like this. “I feel a lil bad and the truth is I feel a lil turned off by feeling ignored.” I like that a lot! Thank you!

    Much more succinctly put. I did tell him that I feel like I am sitting here staring at a closed door. I kind of like that imagery. I wonder if it would have been better to just tell him I feel neglected? We were only talking though. I never even met him. (He was supposed to be here yesterday. I feel sad).

    I don’t like this feeling, but I feel like I have no right to feel neglected by him under these circumstances.

  290.  #290Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    You could even say –

    I feel hurt because there is less communication than there was before. this makes me feel fearful, and then I sometimes act on it.

  291.  #291Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Sweetpea, yes, he wanted to get married to have all the benefits of being married, but he also planned to keep his options open secretly (unbeknownst to me) — when this all surfaced after 15 years of marriage, he told me that I was the perfect girl for the job… I was 8 years younger than him and he thought I was hot, yet he knew I had good morals and wouldn’t mess around on him, yet I had a “past” so he wouldn’t feel guilty for screwing me over! He actually said, “I knew you were a good woman, but not so good that I would feel bad hurting you.”

  292.  #292Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Actually maying using the phrase “focusing on someone” isn’t that feminine.

    How bout…

    I feel better responding to someone who is expressing interest in me?

  293.  #293Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I feel deeply afraid that I am loosing text guy, but something tells me he never was mine.

    Also, I am just so happy I am feeling the sadness and pain, instead of anger, which is a masking feeling.

  294.  #294Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    LG – thank you for pointing out omitting “you.” That is exactly why it feels bad. It does feel accusatory. Thanks for the suggestions. I will practice that. I am going to print what you said and re-write a feeling message omitting “you”. (That I won’t send to him. Just to practice).

    Thank you!

  295.  #295Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Lucy, That’s horrible about your ex-husband. I feel sad about how he INTENDED to hurt and use you from the door. A friend of mine married a man who she found out later he used as a tax write-off.

    It’s sad and sick how people miss what’s most valuable in life: close relationships.

  296.  #296Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Lucy, re #282.

    Is that such a bad thing? I mean, I want to get married for lots of reasons, not all of which are about love and romance.

    In the olden days (still today I know some people) men rush women to the altar because they want to sleep with them.

    We all have ulterior motives to get married.

  297.  #297Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Oh – TG you are the one who said it sounds accusatory. I like your message better too. I really like: “I feel hurt because there is less communication than there was before. this makes me feel fearful, and then I sometimes act on it.” That nails it exactly. If I ever do hear back from him, I think I will tell him that.

    Or that “it feels good to be communicating again and that i felt fearful when there was less communication and when I feel fearful, sometimes I act on it.” What do you think of that?

  298.  #298Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    … I mean, don’t we? Maybe I should ask instead of assume…

    Don’t we all have ulterior motives to want to get married?

  299.  #299Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    LG – I like this, too: “I feel better responding to someone who is expressing interest in me?” That’s really good.

    Thank you all so much for sharing your hard-earned knowledge with me!

    The message I sent him was my second feeling message EVER! So… I feel I have a ways to go. I will practice, practice, practice until I feel more comfortable with it.

  300.  #300Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Him -“Who says you won’t get to be with me? 🙂 ”

    Me – “un-uh! you had your chance and you blew it! :P”

    Am I kidding about that possibile response or serious???

  301.  #301Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Lucy: Ouch!

    As for the Abraham Hicks thing and how it relates to your ex…

    Well what they are saying is we attract situations that we are a vibrational match to. And when we feel worry or unworthiness we aren’t a match to what we want so until we can get to a place were we believe we deserve what we want we won’t get it.

    How this relates to your ex? Maybe he was tour vibrational match at the time. Maybe you didn’t have high esteem for yourself so you attracted someone who didn’t. Maybe that was the perfect message for you because it helped you to realize that you deserved better and at that point you were no longer a vibrational match and you left him.

    I’m just brainstorming here. How does that feel to you?

  302.  #302Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    TG – From what you have written, I don’t feel like you are losing text guy. You would probably be able to feel where things are with him since you’re the one communicating with him, but in your post, 154, where he says: Him 7:45 – “So how was the rest of vaca? Did you also have Thursday, Friday, Sat and Sunday hangovers?” I felt like he was letting you know that he was acutely aware that you had not responded to his last text in that length of time.
    What do you think?

  303.  #303Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Siena, I would like to hope not. I want intimacy, love, companionship, and those are my priorities.

    My previous pastor gently corrected me when I said, “I want a husband so bad!” He said, “How about I want to be a wife”? I like that better, cuz it’s more selfless. And, I do want to be a wife. I was always good at playing defense in soccer. I like to back up a man and do all I can for him to be his best self, while I am becoming my best self, and we are becoming our best self as a couple.

  304.  #304Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I’m afraid that my last comment to Lucy felt insensitive. But I really was asking the question because it’s true for me that part of the reason I want to get married is to stop people from wondering why I’m not married. I don’t think they think I’m gay – but other things? yes.

  305.  #305Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Siena — “We all have ulterior motives to get married.” I guess that’s true, and not a problem, unless the motives are EVIL, which, in his case, they were, imo.

  306.  #306Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    TG…methinks you’re paranoid! I think you should text him this next time he texts you, “Now that you found a real woman, you don’t know what to do with her!” Have fun with it! Be a rockstar diva!

  307.  #307Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm


    Sorry you felt I was overly harsh about being accusatory. Whenever there is a you in the sentence, it can feel that way.

    I like “I feel hurt because there is less communication than there was before. this makes me feel fearful, and then I sometimes act on it.”

    The other one is almost a threat that if he slows contact you will react and behave badly. His expectation is that you can manage your feelings. Not threaten him.

    All good learnings.

  308.  #308Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    oh I see Lucy. Yes – evil is bad. 😉

  309.  #309Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Lucy – WOW! I bet that felt horrible to hear. Now I feel even more sad!

    I, too, feel like, just from what you’ve said here, that having a threesome would feel very, very bad afterward. I understand though, how it would feel refreshing to have a man be SO honest with you that you know there is no possible way that he is trying to hide anything from you.

    You are learning something from him. Do you have any ideas what it is?

  310.  #310Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Siena, to hell with what other people think! I’ve been single (or at least alone, even when I was married to Kenny for 3 years) all my life. When they make comments bout my singleness, I just smile and say, “I’m in love with God!” or I just smile if they are someone I don’t want to be close with. If it’s a close friend, I will share how much I want romance. But who cares what people think? They will talk about you no matter what! They will judge and criticize no matter what! Even if you are perfect! So let it go! You are a beautiful, successful, fun woman. Be Siena! Whatever man gets you is blessed and fortunate! That’s all you need to know!

    And that goes for the rest of us sirens, too!!

  311.  #311Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    LG, “How this relates to your ex? Maybe he was tour vibrational match at the time. Maybe you didn’t have high esteem for yourself so you attracted someone who didn’t. Maybe that was the perfect message for you because it helped you to realize that you deserved better and at that point you were no longer a vibrational match and you left him.”

    You hit it perfectly! 🙂

  312.  #312Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 1:19 pm


    I tend to agree to you that he was accutely aware. That is why I gave him the signal to call and told him how that would feel for me.

    Since he seems to be able to step up, but his communication skills are low, I like to do this so he has almost (maybe literally) an invitation to come on in.

    Honestly, I don’t think he knows how to segway from chit chat into an invitation. Every time he has actually asked me out, it has been by call or email. The texting in between is just filler.

  313.  #313Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    TG – No, no no! I did not in any way feel like you were overly harsh. I completely agree with you. Looking at it from his perspective, I can see how it would feel accusatory.

  314.  #314Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Cool Sweetpea! I’m glad it helped.

    I would also be careful about using words like neglected or ignored. You can use them but it’s a little sketchy because technically they aren’t feelings. Feelings are only sad, mad, glad, or afraid and any variations of those like elated, terrified, furious.

    So you could say

    I feel bummed because it seems like I am being ignored.

    But even that sounds a little accusatory.

    Does that make sense?

  315.  #315Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    TG – I like Brenda’s idea. Give him a real challenge. I think Christian Carter says, “I don’t think you know what to do with a real woman now that you’ve found her,” but he really steps it up by suggesting, “I guess I’ll just go hand out with the girls who don’t have all these hang ups.”

    Really, really cocky! Brenda tones it down a little. Maybe that would feel better.

  316.  #316Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    LG, “until we can get to a place were we believe we deserve what we want we won’t get it”

    A couple months ago, I thought I had reached that place — I finally thought I deserved what I want —

    but now that this has happened with TN man, my thoughts are saying that I didn’t deserve him cuz I’m not cute enough or fun enough, which is why he is with her.

    Although, the things he wrote about her — “I like her a lot. Very fun” — he also told me about ME, over and over again (before she came along) —

    but the nv’s are saying, “Yeah, he said you were very fun, but if he meets you in person he won’t think that. SHE is the fun one, not you!”

    I don’t know how to shut up those voices. They feel true, so shouldn’t I listen to them?

  317.  #317Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    TG: I don’t understand why you think you are losing him. He seems so interested to me in his texts.

    I know I need to follow my own advice but stop giving him so much importance and look for the message. The message is what’s important.

  318.  #318Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    LG – Oh! I feel frustrated! It is all so complicated! What would I ever do without sirens to help me?!

    Yes… accusatory isn’t good. Accusatory feels bad. I don’t feel comfortable using neglected or ignored. Although, I do feel ignored – “blown off” used to be my favorite phrase for it. That feels VERY accusatory. Maybe that’s why I’m not comfortable with neglected or ignored.

    I feel worried that you’re blowing me off!!!! How bout I just say that?

    Well, that’s closer to how I feel. How do you say that and not be accusatory. Is that a “Why haven’t you called” that Rori says to not comment on?

  319.  #319Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Yes, sweetpea, “refreshing” is exactly how it feels to me. . . I actually had that same word in my head about it.

    (“I understand though, how it would feel refreshing to have a man be SO honest with you that you know there is no possible way that he is trying to hide anything from you.”)

  320.  #320Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Lucy – Do you really think you are not fun? Really? From the way you talked in an earlier post, your daughter told you you’re “weird”. Which to me translates from “kidspeak” to “you are whacky & fun!

  321.  #321Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Sweetpea: what I’m trying to say is you can use poetic license with words like neglected or ignored. Just in the same way sirens here make up feeling words like

    I feel cotton candy-ish
    I feel like I’m looking at a closed door (like you said)

    there’s room for poetic license…the guidelines can be stretched as long as it’s with understanding of the fundamentals. 🙂

  322.  #322Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    In my experience it feels better to find someone who is refreshingly honest, but more sensitive to your feelings. Uh oh. Does sensitive translate to “dishonest” in your mind? It does to me sometimes. I think, “Just say it. When you mince words it makes me feel like you are not being completely honest!”

    Maybe you just need to find someone else who is refreshingly honest when he tells you things like, “Guys who use your emotions against you are a waste of your time!”

  323.  #323Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    LG – OK!! Lightbulb! I guess I did tell him I was feeling neglected when I told him about the closed door. THAT I feel good about. That visual conveys many emotions to me. I could have put together a string of words that would not have so accurately conveyed how I was feeling.

    I got it now!

    Thank you! So… a little creative license, non-accusatory – don’t use “you”.

    PERFECT! Feeling much better now.

  324.  #324tinque on June 2, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Siena – “admitting to outside attractions sounds right (and feels totally scary). It’s like preempting the physical cheating by expressing exactly how we feel. And you know what? We all have attraction to other people. It’s almost like not admitting it is lying when everyone knows it’s true.”

    In my experience it just doesn’t work this way when two people are deeply connected in love and passion. Yes we notice attractive people, BUT we are not attracted.
    Yes there may a little buzz of arousal, BUT there is no desire for that person.
    So there is nothing to say, admit or confess to.
    Does this help Siena?
    (I apologize for being absent lately, had to put our puppy down only eight months after my older kitty. They were both very old, but it doesn’t really make it any easier. There’s one kitty left, also very old, twenty, and still healthy though slow moving.)

  325.  #325Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Sweetpea, I thought I was fun, and TN man always told me how fun I was, and my best past relationship was fun fun fun . . . but because I know how much he likes fun, and he said that SHE is very fun . . . I find myself thinking, “What is she doing that is fun? How can SHE be fun? I’M the fun one. He said *I* was fun!But maybe not….maybe I’m not nearly as fun as she is! That must be why he chose her over me! She was MORE fun than me! What is she doing? I need to figure out how to be more fun than HER! *pout* I thought he LOVED my brand of fun!! But apparently not as much as hers! I wanna trade! . . . I can’t compete with her. Obviously the “BEST” girl won.”

  326.  #326Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Tinque, that feels great! It feels wonderful to know that I can have that type of bond if I choose. Because I don’t want my guy attracted to someone else. I guess I thought it was inevitable. To hear it’s not feels wonderful!

    I feel so sad about your dog and kitty. I was just thinking yesterday how sad I would feel to lose my little dog, even though he drives me crazy sometimes. It’s never easy to lose a friend – even the furry kind.

    Love and hugs!

  327.  #327Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm


    no! You absolutely should not listen to them!!!

  328.  #328Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Tinque, I feel really GOOD reading this:

    “In my experience it just doesn’t work this way when two people are deeply connected in love and passion. Yes we notice attractive people, BUT we are not attracted.Yes there may a little buzz of arousal, BUT there is no desire for that person.So there is nothing to say, admit or confess to.”

    It would feel great to have that kind of connection.

  329.  #329Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    The nasty voices that is.

  330.  #330Siena on June 2, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    okay – the subject of death brings up a good lesson for me and a question. Rori talks about not being drawn into a man’s down feelings when he’s feeling down.

    My #1CD lost a close friend recently (he passed away). I’ve asked him how he feels about it, and have talked to him about it and offered my sympathy… but otherwise I’ve been basically myself – playful & cheery.

    I don’t want to be insensitive, but I can’t think of what else I can “do” in this situation.

    Is any leaning forward appropriate in cases like these? Or does he probably just need me to be as I already am? We’re new to dating (1 month only) if that matters.

  331.  #331tinque on June 2, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Siena – Men usually prefer to let these things percolate in their own brains. If they want to talk, they will. If the brooding persists, you can say to him, “you seem preoccupied. Is there anything you want to tell me?” If he says no, leave it alone.
    And yes continue to be you. It’s probably helping him feel better. Men don’t want us to brood right along with them. That would feel bad to all involved.
    Thank you for your sentiments too.

  332.  #332Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Anyone have any last thoughts on how I should respond to that text?

    Thanks so much for all your help everyone! <3

    Going to the grocery store now…..

  333.  #333Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Tinque: I feel sad you had to put doggy and kitty down. I know how hard that can be.

    What you said about not feeling desire when you are in love. That’s why I feel confused. I really live LI but I feel desirous of MM. This confuses me. But to be fair LI and I aren’t in a committed relationship, we haven’t been together for that long and we are still exploring each other. And I became attracted to MM when I thought LI was out of the picture. Then he came back and expressed interest but I had already opened my heart to MM. It would feel great to hear your perspective on this

  334.  #334Tina on June 2, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I like the respecting him if not then NEXT, for me fear does not equal respect, my safety issue probibly comes from, if I dont like how the captain is running the ship then I need to negotiate something, this is where the tools come in handy 🙂

  335.  #335Tina on June 2, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I wonder if I had done this with my “husband” NEXT if I would have bothered marrying?

  336.  #336Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Siena: my guess is that he probably really appreciates your lightheartedness at this time. But if you wanted to say something like…

    I feel open and supportive if you want to talk about your friends death and if you don’t that’s cool too.

    And just drop it after that.

    How does that feel?

  337.  #337Siena on June 2, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    LG that feels good! He’s talked to me about it, but if I find him brooding, I’ll say something like that.

    Honestly, I keep forgetting that his friend died because we’re having so much fun together. But I guess that’s a good thing. Maybe if we were closer I would need to be more sensitive, but for now having fun feels good.

  338.  #338tinque on June 2, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Laughing Goddess – thank you…
    Really you’ve answered your own question. You are not in a committed relationship with LI, nor have you been together for that long. The deep, passionate bond I speak of rarely if ever happens without having been together for a while, years even, that place you can only get to with time.
    This kind of love goes way beyond lust though lust definitely still factors in. It’s when you know each other so well, there are no more surprises, yet each moment together is a surprise, a happy one.
    It is often said that over time love becomes predictable, boring maybe, but I have to say my heart flutters more now when K walks in the door at night than it ever did in the beginning, and the joy and delight on his face when he sees me tells me he feels the same.

  339.  #339Tina on June 2, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I said yes, to marriage when I should have said NEXT. I thought he has potential , I’ll cut him some slack, when I should have said NEXT, my degree of difficulty just went up a few notches 🙂 I’ll have to talk to truckman again, just to straighten some shit out, I’ll use feelings messages 🙂 Fear of what? Tina fck! oh he cant do it anymore, he gets to decide? the trap, the trap yeah, it’s a trap! he gets to decide when and if he can handle it, my feelings I mean. exclusive dating, yeah I went there with him hehe. Fear and respect hm. do I fear using feelings messages with him? do I fear? what do I fear? ill talk to him about it, the cost is to high for me, after all he wants to marry me right? I have standards 🙂 I can rockstar my way through this, siren whatever, I’m just going to go there with him. Free therapy , here we go!

  340.  #340Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Lucy: I still like #1

    as for the not listening to the nasty voices…well, I just don’t feel that they are speaking truth. Nothing that tears us down like that can be true. Or maybe there is some truth to their words but there perspective is not balanced.

    My nasty voices tell me that I need to work out. Maybe ther is some truth there. It would feel good to work out but they are not acknowledging that I still look and feel pretty great and I’ll work out when I’m ready and all is well.

    Maybe that’s the problem…the nasty voices aren’t giving a balanced perspective.

  341.  #341Tina on June 2, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Tinque thats awesome! maybe thats what truckman means when he says, a good marriage is not dreading coming home 🙂

  342.  #342Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Sweetpea: I feel good about your feeling messages andgot seems to feel easier and easier with practice. You’re doing great. Don’t worry about it.

    Hmmm how can I say don’t worry about it in a feminine voice?

  343.  #343Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Lucy – I just thought of something… I think Siena might be on to something. He may be a playa.

    He is being honest with you, but it also feels like he WANTS you to compete for him. That is pursuing. That is masculine energy. Maybe he needs to quit acting like a girl and step it up if he wants to be with you.

    Maybe he likes interloper girl because she will play his silly little games. Maybe he can make her jealous and make her compete. Maybe he’s talking to you and telling her all of this shit to see if she will perform like a circus clown for him.,,

  344.  #344Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    And maybe she is performing like a circus clown for him and that’s why she’s “very fun”. More like a circus monkey… Who doesn’t like a performing monkey? They are clowns.

    Don’t let him turn you into his puppet!

  345.  #345Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Awww Tinque! That feels so beautiful to read! Thanks for sharing.

  346.  #346Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    LG- That’s so funny. I just read your post after I submitted the one to Lucy telling her to not let him “make her into his puppet” and thinking, “Was that masculine energy?”

  347.  #347Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    LG – I was thinking maybe it would feel good to let LVMan know that I feel like I was a little accusatory and that I don’t feel that he is to blame. That I seem to be having a hard time expressing myself accurately of late.

    What do you think of that?

    I feel bad. I don’t want to seem accusatory. I don’t feel accusatory. I actually feel worried that I haven’t been able to express myself well to him for awhile and that that is part of the reason we are not talking as much.

  348.  #348Rachel on June 2, 2010 at 2:36 pm


    I don’t know if you’re still accepting feedback. I think the last text you sent was great! The earlier ones… the sense I had was that you were trying too hard to be witty? Or maybe that’s just your personality.

    If it flows naturally, then yes, banter! But not every answer has to be clever and if you are forcing it, he will sense that. Maybe the reason you feel so unsure about these exchanges is because you aren’t feeling free to just be you.

    Sometimes during texting, I imagine how I would respond if it were someone I didn’t “care about” romantically – like my brother or a girlfriend. Most of the time, I would immediately know what to say to them and it would flow right from my heart with no effort.

    him 10:43 – Sometimes I just wish I could ignore all clocks and do things on my own schedule. Or maybe I’ll quit my job and move to africa for a year

    Me 11:06 – You should do whatever makes you happy. It may not always feel like it, but the world and time are for you to enjoy! I have a feeling you would have a great time exploring. Sweet dreams.

    I feel curious about why you ended things here. What you said was beautiful, but the “sweet dreams” just kinda shut it down. He sounded like he might have been opening up a deeper conversation where you could have connected at a heart level.

    I understand wanting to end the conversation if it’s dwindling… but in this case, I think I would have waited to see his response before bidding him goodnight.

    Or maybe you really needed to sleep! In which case I would have said something like… “I need to get to bed, but I feel good hearing your thoughts. I feel like you have a lot going on inside and I’d love to hear more tomorrow.”

    Just some thoughts! But overall, I think you’re doing great. I hope that you can relax and trust yourself and the process.


  349.  #349Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Sweetpea: it sure couldn’t hurt especially if you remain open about the outcome. It would feel better to me if I did it with the attitude of hey, this is my truth right now, I’m expressing it and I’m practicing usuing feeling messages and it doesn’t matter if it “works” or not i.e. brings him back.

  350.  #350Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Lucy, are you referring to the: “Who says you don’t get to be with me” text?

  351.  #351Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Sweetpea: I didn’t mean to say it would feel better in the sense of better than the way you are approaching it because it feels like you are approaching it with this attitude.

  352.  #352Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    LG – Right. That is where I’m at right now. My truth is what’s important to me right now. More importantly, expressing my truth. I’ve been afraid to be honest with men about what I really want and how I feel for so long. It feels horrible. I want my truth back more than anything. I want to be honest and if they can deal with it cool, if not then they are “practice guys”.

  353.  #353Tina on June 2, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    my degree of difficulty just went up a few notches funny. I have to stay with the program here lol. I dont want to feel afraid, he says, afraid of what? I say afraid that I will feel punished for speaking my feelings, my bad ones 🙂

  354.  #354Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    LG – I understood that you were telling me it is a lot easier to do this if you’re not attached to the outcome… Thanks! 😉

  355.  #355Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Rachel: re: 347

    wow! What you said and how you said it feels so good to me. Will you be my spokesperson cuz you said exactly what I am was thinking!

  356.  #356Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Sweetpea! I am feeling blown away by the eloquence of the sirens today! I love eveything you said in #351!

  357.  #357Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    “Lucy, are you referring to the: “Who says you don’t get to be with me” text?”

    Yes, sweetpea. (I love your name, btw, I always picture a flower faerie!)

  358.  #358Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Laughing Goddess – thank you. I’m feeling great about being honest with my feelings. I feel safe expressing them here and that is helping me to express them elsewhere.

    Love it, love it, love it! Feel like Snoopy doing the “happy dance”!

    Here is what I am thinking of saying, “I just realized that my last message to you seemed a little accusatory. That was not my intent at all. I don’t blame you for our conversations slowing down. I feel like I’ve not been expressing myself accurately and I’m worried about it. I’m feeling like a lot of important things I’ve said the last couple of weeks have not been taken in the spirit I intended them, which means I’m not expressing them correctly. Things that I’ve meant to be compliments have not come out right, and ugh! I feel horrible!

    Please don’t feel like I’m blaming you for anything because I’m not. I’m just worried that I’m a shitty communicator… ”

    That feels completely genuine to me.

  359.  #359Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Wow! I just had a revelation about how I could have responded in a feminine manner to a friend of mine yesterday.

    He was giving me the update about him and his ex and I didn’t feel good about the way I responded.

    Here’s what happened…

    He said: it was a messy day today. I met with C and we both acknowledged that we still feel live for each other even though she’s engaged.

    Me: that’s exciting!

    Him: not really because there’s nothing I can do about it

    me: well would you rather she not be available at all or this?

    Him: I don’t know

    and the conversation ended

    what I realized I could have said is

    so it feels good to know she still loves you but also frustrating because you don’t feel free to act on your love?

    That feels like such a good response. Completely free of my own judgements or opinions and just a reflecting that he is being heard. I’m not saying if I didn’t have strong feelings about it, that I wouldn’t share them but this situation didn’t really involve me so I felt neutral about it.

    This feels good to me as a way to engage in the conversation without always having to struggle to find a feeling statement. Maybe it’s okay to just reflect back that I an listening.

  360.  #360Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm


    Thank you. My dad used to call me (still does sometimes) “Sweetpea”. It evokes fond memories for me which is why I chose it here. I feel happy when I think of a “flower faerie”.

    Who says he GETS to be with you? I can tell from your messages here that you are a kind, caring person with a lot of integrity. He would be lucky to be with you! At all!! But especially sexually.

    Silly boy!

  361.  #361Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    LG – I like the idea of a reflecting statement. I feel like that would be acknowledging what he is asking for – which is someone to listen.

  362.  #362Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I’m so confused about this masculine energy thing…

    Lucy – that message to you felt masculine energy, but it is how I feel. I feel like he would be lucky to have you in his life in any way. I feel pain in my heart for you because I think he is stringing you along. That pain makes me feel strongly to express my opinion.

    Is that more feminine energy?

  363.  #363Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    That last post to Lucy does not feel strong enough to honestly express my emotions. Ugh!

  364.  #364Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Oh, Sweetpea, that’s so interesting what you wrote about the monkeys! My eyes are big and wide, because….

    He and I have a running “game” about US being like monkeys — he and I!!!

    It started the first week we connected . . . and crops up pretty frequently still . . . a few days ago we talked about going to the zoo in his new city to see the monkeys . . . a few months ago I dreamt (and he loved it) that he and I were chasing each other through the branches of my willow tree like monkeys . . . sometimes I even call him “monkey” — which he likes, and then he calls himself that to me . . . so Weird!

    What do you think???

    Apparently she’s a better monkey than I am!

  365.  #365Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 3:13 pm


    Firstly, thanks for the vote of confidence on the last one. I thought for sure that everyone here would tell me that telling him to call would be leaning forward.

    I actually was going to bed, but I see your point about if I was actually ending the conversation so I could be less vulnerable to sharing the feeling messages.

    Now I am actually beating myself up for being less real. I used to be so hard, and so I focused on being fun, and not I am seeing that I am not being vulnerable by being that way.

    I feel sick just thinking about it.

    I think you have a really interesting point that I need to consider. I do not think I am trying to hard, but I am finding that he actually responds to better when I have less banter. I wonder if it comes off as aloof.

    Very interesting, he really seems to respond by opening when I am less flip. And text messaging allows me to be more calculating than a real conversation.

    Here are the times I have used feeling messages –
    a. I always feel so good when you drive, I bet you’d be great for a wheelchair adventure

    b. when I was on vaction – telling him I was feeling relaxed etc.

    c. last night when I texted him about I felt he would have a great adventure

    d. Today when I told him it would feel great for him to call me.

    This is all very scary for me and it is triggering some regret and self blame. I can’t believe that when I feel I am so authentic, that maybe I am not actually that authentic. I was so caught up in being fun, that I actually did the opposit.


  366.  #366Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    LOL Lucy!! That is so funny!

  367.  #367Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    It feels good to me to think of her as a better monkey. I don’t know why that would feel good to me. Because it feels outrageous!!

    Laughter is good for the soul.

  368.  #368Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Tallgirl – First of all – I hope you saw my earlier post about not feeling that you were harsh!

    I feel confused about why you think it is leaning forward to tell him it would feel great for him to call you. That feels authentic. Unless you really don’t want to call you. Do you want to keep texting.

    Lots of times I don’t want to talk on the phone. I’ve decided that is my personal preference and unless I feel like talking on the phone, I’m not going to feel worried that I’m not talking on the phone.

    That felt like a jumble. Do you understand what I’m trying to say?

  369.  #369Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Sweetpea, thank you so much for your kind words about me! It feels really good to read what you wrote.

    Honestly, you know, I wouldn’t really want to be her right now — because of the way he is communicating with ME! — I wouldn’t want to be with a man as his girlfriend when he is talking to another girl about their potential to have sex together!

  370.  #370Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 3:26 pm


    Your note to LV man sounds great to me! It feels sweet, authentic, and non-accusatory.

    There are a few other technical things about feeling messages that could make it a little bit tighter but I hestitate to even bring them up because overall the note feels so good to me.

    But in the spirit of full disclosure, I would just say that technically it’s not a feeling message if “I feel” is followed by “like” or “that”. It’s a very common form of expression and I find myself doing it a lot.

    “I feel like I’ve not been expressing myself accurately and I’m worried about it.”

    I feel worried that I’ve not been expressing myself accurately.

    So technically you THINK that you have not been expressing yourself accurately and you feel worried by that thought.

    Whatever though, it’s super subtle and it’s really common for us to use the phrasing “I feel like”. I feel confident that he will fully get you point if you send it exactly as you wrote it.

    Sometimes it’s helpful for me though to be super strict about how I phrase feeling messages just to make sure that I don’t sneak any weird judgements in.

  371.  #371Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I wouldn’t want to be her right now, either. As honest as he is, it wouldn’t surprise me if he is either:
    a) not letting her know he is communicating with you, or
    b) using his communication with you to manipulate her.

    One of my ex-boyfriends used to try to manipulate me like that. So either, it is skepticism and baggage on my part making me think that, or it is that I’ve been there and recognize the signs when I see them.

    I still care about him, but I am sooooo glad to be out of that situation.

  372.  #372Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    And Lucy, just for the record, he and I were great friends before we started dating. So don’t think that he is roping her in by acting like this. If we hadn’t been friends, it would just be “good riddance”. Now, it is “good riddance but I miss the friendship”.

  373.  #373Tina on June 2, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Lucy, you have to “out girl” her 🙂

  374.  #374Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm


    I feel the desire to shake you until all those nasty voices come out! I feel so bummed when I hear you being hard on yourself. Your situation feels pretty great to me. You are learning and growing and getting better and better. Nobody ever said you have to be perfect. It’s all a process! I so want to see you being easy on yourself. You are doing great! Everything is okay. Really!

    I feel a lot of interest in his communications. And even if he did give up, someone even better would come along.

    But really that feels insignificant. What feels more important is allowing yourself room to be a work in progress. I feel trusting that we all will be until we die. I’m sure Rori is still learning things and improving.

    Just be yourself with this guy. I feel trusting that if you lighten up on yourself and forgive yourself for making “mistakes” it will certain an aura of naturalness, and fun, and safety which will be irresistable.

  375.  #375Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    I thought that telling him to do anything was leaning forward.

    Honestly, I love the banter on texting to a point, but to have it as the key means of communication is not good.

    I am literally feeling sick about my admission of being aloof by trying to be fun.

    I almost feel like telling him that I am working on being vulnerable, and that I would love his help. Maybe something like:

    “On my vacation I had some time to really think and of the things I realized I need to work on is my vulnerabilty. As you know, I am a very extroverted person, and at times that manifests itself as having too much banter. I am feeling so glad about getting to know you better, and I have no idea where we might be heading, but I wanted to share that with you because I would like to move past banter, but it can be hard for me. What do you think?

    I am thinking if we go out, I can ask him more about his sabbatical in an authentic way, and then I can tell him about my learning.


  376.  #376Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Siena, maybe your 5 year man is the same guy as TN man! — he lived in CA for awhile! Wouldn’t that be weird!

    Speaking of which — I know this is a total no-no — but did it ever occur to any of you that IF we wanted to, we could have each other check up on/test our dates? Like, by emailing them, etc. and see how they behave with another interested woman???

  377.  #377Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    “He kept telling me he wasn’t committed to me, and I just didn’t hear it. I thought it meant that I should try harder (OMG, haha! That’s so dumb!)”

    I laughed out loud — I would have thought too that it meant I should try harder!!! Yeah, like I’m thinking now, I need to be a better monkey…..

  378.  #378Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    I just had this surreal vision that you are all reflections of me and the advice I’m giving out is just as applicable to me as it is to all of you 🙂

  379.  #379Tallgirl10 on June 2, 2010 at 3:47 pm


    Thank you for your kind words. I am literally sitting here tearing up. I can’t believe that I covered one one of being hard with another.

    I have no idea if this is the man for me, and generally, I have my head on straight, but look how I am saying he is the bad communicator.

    When it is really me. I feel so upset right now. I can’t even let people in.

  380.  #380Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Brenda, your descriptions of Ryan’s passivity and passive-aggressive control sound very much like my ex-h. 🙁

  381.  #381Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Woohoo! She’s going out with Frenchie!! Yay!

  382.  #382Siena on June 2, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Lucy re #375- at one time, when I was with 5 year man and he wasn’t stepping up to the plate, I would have totally wanted another woman to test him. And I always thought that when other women talked about their bf’s that they were talking about 5 year man. I literally thought every cute girl I met had a chance with him. It was a weird obsession that I had. I would meet cute women and say to myself, “shit! I hope 5 year man doesn’t meet her!”

    Nowadays – I can honestly say, no, I don’t want other women to test the man I’m with. If he wants to go away, then I’ll let him go.

    I believed back then that having 5 year man love me was the key to my happiness. I was obsessed.

    Now I know better. Thank God!

  383.  #383Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    TG: why feel upset about this revelation? It’s awesome!!!!

    Now that you know this about yourself, you will never be able to go back. Things can only get better from here. It so good!

    If you had a child and it was learning to walk you wouldn’t chastise it for occassionally stumbling. You would understand that it’s part of the learning process. What if you gave yourself the same leeway?

    I like what you said to Sweetpea about how you might communicate what’s going on for him. I would maybe simplify it a bit. It still feels a little too thought out. Maybe something as simple as

    it feels so good to chat with you but honestly I’m feel annoyed with the limitations of texting. It were feel so mcu better to talk in person.

    How does that feel?

  384.  #384Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Or even more simplified

    i’m feeling annoyed with the limitations of texting. It would feel so good to talk with you in person.

  385.  #385Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Tina, you’re saying I have to outgirl the girl? 🙂 Lol.

  386.  #386Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Shoot, he himself is saying he wants to simplify and go live in the woods. I feel confident he will understand.

  387.  #387Siena on June 2, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    …and my obsession with other women dating him was well-founded.

    I just remembered this one too… I was in Dallas (I live in Southern CA) at a bachelorette party that I was throwing for a friend of mine. A girl at the party who lived in Ohio and I started talking…. and I found out that 5 year man and she had been set up on a date the week before! I mean – COME ON!

    He had spent the night with me the night before and dropped me off at the airport.

    But a week before that, he had been in Ohio and had gone out with this random girl that I met at a random party in another state!

    I’m laughing as I write this. WHAT WAS I THINKING!?

  388.  #388Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    He said “you are sweet and precious” I said I feel like a soft warm fuzzy teddy bear now awe, I do though . I bet he wants to have sex with this soft warm fuzzy teddy bear even more 🙂

  389.  #389Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I feel warm and fuzzy 🙂 hey what happened to warm and fuzzy guy?

  390.  #390Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Ya! Out girl her!

    Hmmm, I feel curious how being bi affects her feminine energy? I mean, it may not have any significance. Maybe she’s super feminine energy and goes out with masculine energy men. I feel interested in this topic because ironically enough MM has been casually dating a bi woman as well. In some ways she seems in touch with her feminine energy. She is lighthearted and fun but I can also see how her masculine energy creates some distance in their relationship. I guess it’s probably different for ever woman, bi or not, and probably not really productive to put much energy into thinking about her

  391.  #391Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Lucy yes, and maybe him too 🙂 practice.

  392.  #392Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Meant to say she goes out with masculine energy women!

  393.  #393Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Omg Siena! That is nuts. I can hardly believe it!

    And I also feel so understanding. Ha ha! In fact I’m wondering if maybe it’s the same man that I was dating too!

    Haha! I doubt it but they sound very similar.

    Wow! I am so thankful to not be in that situation anymore!!!

  394.  #394Laughing goddess on June 2, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I felt the same way, totally threatened by any semi-attractive young woman because I knew he would hit on her.

    Yuck, ugh, horrible, icky feeling!

  395.  #395Siena on June 2, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    LG – haha it wasn’t the same guy, but it sounds like it’s a type. It feels good to know that others have the same experience.

    I honestly think that I’ve dated each type there is to date. I wonder if there’s a million dollar book deal in there for me, because there HAS to be a reason somewhere!

    LOL – I feel so glad I’m out of that situation too. Never again!

  396.  #396Rachel on June 2, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Laughing Goddess and TallGirl,

    I like #383 except maybe I’d change the word “annoyed” to “frustrated.” Annoyed might convey that you’re irritated with him!

    TG, please give yourself a big hug and celebrate how hard you’re working on getting this! You’re learning more every day and it’s ok!!!

    One thing I just thought of… I used to use feeling messages to try to “tell” my guy something or “lead” him toward something. And Rori reminded me that the feeling messages are meant to be a RESPONSE to what he’s saying or doing or to open up your heart and SHARE something about you.

    So when he asked about your vacation… something like “it felt so good to get away” or “it feels good to hear from you after being away” or “I felt excited to be back home and hear from you”

    And the feelings don’t always have to be about him. I’d tell him that the sand felt good between my toes. Or the soup felt so warm and soothing. Or my bed felt snuggly.

    But when he says or does something that feels good, reflect that back so he’ll know he’s on the right track.

    I think it’s really powerful for you to realize that you could be using the fun banter as a self-protection too. There’s nothing wrong with spontaneous fun texts – I love them! But it’s good to be aware if you’re possibly keeping things at a “safe” level. Like you said, at some point the conversation has to go deeper in order for him to see your beautiful, womanly heart and for you to see his manly one!

    Maybe tonight if he mentions a sabbatical, you could just reflect back “wow.. it would feel so good to have that much time away to ponder and explore” and see what he shares back.

    I’m pulling for you. I admire your courage to keep working on your skills. Please cut yourself a break! The man is still here so you’re not scaring him away. And you’re just going to get better and better!!!


  397.  #397Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    That’s it Rachel! I like the sand between my toes, under my feet, the grains of sand feel massaging my toes, feels like heaven! I can actually feel it now hehe, right through my body to to the top of my head, exhilerating! alive! turned on hey cool.

  398.  #398Tina on June 2, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    The smell of salt water fills me up with love 🙂

  399.  #399Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Whoa, I just surprised myself! Without even thinking, I wrote, “Feels good to hear from you” just now when 25 fb messaged me! Freaky! I have NEVER said that to him before! TN man, yes — all the time; 25, never!

  400.  #400Tina on June 2, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    I feel good to hear that you used a spontanous feeling message Lucy 🙂 I *think hehe I’ll feeling message my way through the night. I feel excited to try out my new karaoke song 🙂

  401.  #401Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    This little story keeps coming up in my mind lately, so I’m going to write it here:

    Early on, TN man and I talked a bit about past relationships. He said one of his best relationships (which was the last one before he took up with me)was one where he ended up never even getting to kiss the girl — because she had moved to Alaska.

    Apparently they had met in person where he lived while he was dating someone else, so neither of them acted on their attraction to each other. After she moved to AK, he broke up with the other girl, and he got in touch with AK girl — and they confessed to each other that they had strong “in love” feelings for each other.

    They carried on a long-distance relationship for awhile — all virtual. I asked him what happened to end it. He said, “She couldn’t wait for me. She took up with someone in Alaska.”

    He said it really hurt, and it was the only time he has felt “in love” and the only time the girl has been the one to end things instead of him. He said he lost the girl and then shortly after that, lost his dog, and that it was an intense time for him.

    At the time he told me this, I remember thinking, What does he mean “she couldn’t wait for me”? He was IN LOVE with her — why didn’t he just fly up there and be with her???

    I remembered this story a few days ago, and I was like, anywayyy! what was THAT about?! And does it shed any light on what he has done with me?

  402.  #402Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    A couple nights ago, I dreamt that I went to a zumba class with interloper girl. Weird.

  403.  #403Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Lucy, who knows. AK girl could have met someone real fast and before TN man knew it. My cousin lived up there and he said there are far more men than women. So if a new woman showed up in AK, I guarantee you she got ALOT OF ATTENTION FAST! All sorts of variables coulda played in and he may not even know them all. Then you are into figgering the man out, which we all agree is waste of our precious feminine energy! We need that energy to progress on our own bridge! 🙂

  404.  #404Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I love zumba!!

  405.  #405Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I also had a dream about Ankita in bed with some guy. Even weirder!

  406.  #406Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Lucy, you want me to somehow contact TN man with my slender pic and see how he responds? You wanna go on a mission walking into the bar where Ryan is a regular and see what happens?

  407.  #407Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Brenda, that’s interesting about the ratio in Alaska! Just today at my oncology appt I was talking to my doc about my hot flashes/sweating getting worse with this weather, and I joked, “Maybe I should move to Alaska!”

    Maybe I should!!!

  408.  #408Brenda on June 2, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    LOL! You would all find a man in a heartbeat in AK! My cousin put a profile in an Alaska magazine that went to women all over the world. He eventually chose a woman in NY, and now that’s where he lives! But they lived in AK the first few years of their marriage.

  409.  #409Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Ya’ll are posting up a storm. I can’t keep up. I’m still stuck in my own business/drama, and I want an opinion.

    If I’ve already told Mr. Fab Kisser that I feel bad communicating by text/email, do I respond to these letters? Or do I just let it go? I can’t decide if I’m avoiding or if I’m really just uninterested in saying anything else. I used to be so bad about having to have the last word so I’m feeling a little hesitant to respond. At this point, I don’t care to debate any of this with him anymore. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve already said Next.

    My likely response would be something like:

    I got your letters. When I saw them in my mailbox, I felt surprised and happy. Reading Part I of your letter, I felt good. It felt nice to remember our adventures. Then when I read Part II, I felt bad and deflated. With each new thing mentioned, I felt myself distancing further and further. I don’t want to debate anything. I feel good about my beliefs and doing what feels right to me.

    I feel humiliated that you spoke to others about me and worse that we haven’t had a conversation except by emails and letters. I would have loved to hear about your path. I feel sad that you’ve spoken to others about your faith but never to me. Ugh. I feel tired of second guessing and discussing this electronically.

    This just continues to feel bad, and I don’t want to feel unhappy anymore. Right now it feels good to focus on me and not worry about relationships.

    or something like that. Ugh. It just feels like a lot of words. I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I feel like there are things left unsaid but I don’t want to discuss this over email. (And a part of me wants to “stick it” to him regarding contacting me this way, like I’ve TOLD you I feel bad emailing.)

    He sends me PAGES of words to digest and then expects some kind of big response. This is his defensive measure too. Ugh. I don’t know.

    and I’m not sure I care.

    What do you think?

  410.  #410Daria on June 2, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Sharon –

    I wouldn’t say anything… or …

    I feel weird and angry – but when would the chance to say that come up?

    Ugh i feel turned off thinking about it.

    I’m going through a similar something.

    This man who came to see me once,

    texted me a lot – though i told him i dont like it –

    then i told him i dont like phone calls without messages.

    So i got a message from him to cal lhim back… orrr…. omgosh im just now remembering

    the message actually said

    “i know you don’t like calls without voicemails, but i odnt like to not get calls back, so call me back when you get this”

    now i had been feeling very down and thinking of him makes me think of my godsister cuzt htats how i met him

    so i didnt wind up calling him back

    then 2 days later i get a text

    “its not right to treat me like this , if you didnt want to keep talking to me you could just let me know, not ignore me”

    i felt good the next day and decided to answer

    ‘it’s not like that, ive been feeling down”

    to which he writes

    “you could have still called me back”


    “whats wrong”

    well i felt icky after that, and i was meditating during the “whats wrong”

    and then like 5 min later


    im like whoa!

    whoa i feel really mad reading this now

    i have NOT answered

    this morning he texts “goodmorning”

    he told me before that he wants me to text him back when he texts that


    i just feel like escaping

    I dont want him in my energy field!

    I don’t know if to NOT ANSWER

    or say… i feel weird and don’t want to talk anymore


    i feel angry

    right now im going with not answering




    I just vampire screamed hehe

  411.  #411gina on June 2, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    I think a tool I can start using is the “be sweet” tool. I just made that up based on what my mom says to my cat, Clyde, when he suddenly turns into a jerk. He stifles his mean impulse and behaves himself. Sometimes he lose control, though, and lashes out. Otherwise he melts into a puddle of purrs.

  412.  #412Daria on June 2, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    the only reason i even care… is because i feel afraid that he will get a grudge against me and i might wind up seeing him again and i feel afraid to be attacked then

    i feel icky face thinking of that, i feel judgemenatl of myself



    i love my fear


    i feel afraid… NOT feeling good





    i love my feelings

  413.  #413mary on June 2, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    hi simply shannon,

    wow about mr. fab kisser.

    i feel sad that he’s trying so hard!

    maybe he’s better on paper. maybe he doesn’t want to get with you and cry. or see that you’ve moved on and feel more rejected.

    who knows about him?

    and you…

    do you feel relieved that it’s over? and you say that when you see all those papers in the mailbox, it weighs you down… i feel sad, picturing you with all that weight on your shoulders.

    what would be your perfect scenario?

    would you want him to call you up, very happy, and say hey! i just had the most amazing revelation today! and tell you some deep things about himself and be at peace with the fact that you’re not together?

    instead of rehashing old conversations and revisiting past grievances?

    here’s an idea:

    don’t go into it very much. tell him how you feel about the relationship ending. and possibly tell him your perfect scenario? in an “i’ll look forward to the day when…” kind of way. maybe he can catch your vision of peace and rest.

    maybe there aren’t any questions that need to be answered at this time…

    i don’t know, i’m just thinking with you…

  414.  #414mary on June 2, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    if a guy texts me, i text him back.

    if a guy emails me, i email him back.

    if a guy writes me a letter and mails it, i might do the same.

    if a guy calls me and wants me to call him, i do.

    i prefer face to face, but most guys do, too. the other modes of communication are gifts for when you can’t be face to face!

    why not use them?

    the more creative a guy is with his communication, the more responsive i am… because who knows? what might be next? a message in the sky… or a few words made of stones on the beach?



    hooray for all kinds of hellos!

  415.  #415mary on June 2, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    and that wasn’t meant for you, shannon, in your situation.

    i was just on a muse.

    amusin’ myself!

    % # ! ! ? ! $ @

  416.  #416Lucy on June 2, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Shannon, did he ask for a response? If not, given the way you feel, I would just not respond. Even if he did ask for a response . . . well, he’s not talking to you in person, and it feels almost like an imposition to “make” you write him a letter.

    Maybe if you don’t do anything about the letters, he will call, and then you can talk.

    I don’t know. This part of your post stood out for me, though: “I can’t decide if I’m avoiding or if I’m really just uninterested in saying anything else.” For me, determining which of those two things is really going on would be the key to deciding what to do. <3

  417.  #417Simply Shannon on June 2, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Mary, I think that’s a great perspective. I don’t know how I feel about using it with Mr. Fab Kisser but I appreciate the idea of it a lot.

    Here’s the skinny on what’s up with me.

    I don’t feel like he’s trying all that hard. He’s writing pages and pages of nothingness. It’s all head work. It’s all stuff that he’s listing out as things I need to be “aware of”. And none of it feels helpful. It feels passive aggressive and deliberately hurtful. Does he have any clue how bad I feel hearing these things? I know he does because he says in the letter “I know this will make you mad”… and then he proceeds to write the stuff anyway. How is that caring for my feelings? It isn’t.

    At the same time, I’m really trying to love him like Jesus would. I no longer feel “in love” feelings for him. I love him because he’s a good man, but he just isn’t the one for me as things stand today. I don’t feel good interacting with a man who can’t stop himself from saying things he knows will piss me off. It would feel so much better to have good feelings between us for at least a little bit before DISCUSSING some of this stuff he’s found. I would have felt open to discussing it. I don’t feel open to being hammered with accusations or made to feel bad because I enjoy my church and I feel strongly about my beliefs. Some of the crap is low blow stuff even when he knows my history (lots of past sexual partners as well as having sex with him after being saved).

    He actually mentioned how two girls he spoke with were shocked that I went on another date with someone. (This date was after the no-girlfriend speech so no covert dates on my part.) One mentioned that she couldn’t believe I was a Christian and saying these things to him about his faith and yet I was going out with someone else. At first I was mad. Mostly humiliated and betrayed because he talked about me behind my back but then I felt amused because I was thinking “those girls just don’t know Rori.”

    This is just drama, and I don’t want it in my life.

    1. I don’t want to feel swayed by others. Asking for opinions / advice is one thing, but I don’t want to change my beliefs/boundaries at the whim of another person.
    2. I can say no. I can stop talking to a man.
    3. I don’t have to have the last word.
    4. Dating should feel fun. And when it doesn’t, it’s my job to step back.
    5. I don’t want a man who doesn’t have faith. I don’t want to guess if he has faith. It should be apparent to me.

    Gosh, what to say, what to say. I really don’t know. I feel dumbfounded. I feel tired.

  418.  #418mary on June 2, 2010 at 9:51 pm



    yes, i DO believe in circular dating, because that’s how i got where i am today!

    with some good choices.


  419.  #419Sweetpea on June 2, 2010 at 10:39 pm


    I just had a totally random thought about the two letters you got… the first one actually said “Part I” on it? So he was already planning on writing “Part II”? What gives?! I could understand writing the second letter and then realizing that it was maybe a little harsh and sending a more positive one. But he wrote the nice one first and already knew he was going to send the second one, which seems like it did more to tear you down and try to control you than anything else. I feel confused.
    I agree with Lucy. One thing that has been helpful for me in not being self-recriminating is waiting until I feel sure about what I want to say, or how I feel comfortable handling a situation before I do anything.
    This letter thing feels very, very odd. I feel suspicious of his motives.

  420.  #420Brenda on June 3, 2010 at 4:32 am

    Shannon, I guess I’ll throw in my two cents…

    What is your goal? To end the relationship, right? Altho I think your possible words to him are good, if you truly WANT it to end, you could either do nothing or just acknowledge that you received the letters. I mean like maybe a quick text or email, “I received your letters.” Then if he REALLY wanted to have your response, he would have no choice but to call you. If you have already expressed you don’t enjoy electronic communication, there’s no reason YOU should feel obligated to dishonor YOUR VALID PREFERENCES just because HE does!

    How do you feel about that?

  421.  #421Brenda on June 3, 2010 at 4:33 am

    Overall on this ongoing discussion we keep bringing up of electronic communication, I think it’s totally valid to say something like, “I prefer to discuss this in person.” At least for myself, sometimes I need to be bolder.

  422.  #422Simply Shannon on June 3, 2010 at 5:56 am

    My response last night is awaiting moderation. Boo. Think I made to many faith statements.

    Right now I don’t feel interested in responding.

    Who knows. I feel tired. One of my boys has an ear infection which means I was up with him last night. Zzzz.

    I feel excited about tonight though. I’m going to be volunteering at a teen pregnancy center. No clue what we’ll be doing but it will feel good to serve some young moms. Yeah!

  423.  #423Brenda on June 3, 2010 at 6:10 am

    Shannon, that’s cool about the pregnancy center!

    I found words like “Jesus” will get it sent to moderation.

  424.  #424Brenda on June 3, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Shannon, that’s cool about the pregnancy center!

    I found words like “J” , as in the son of God, will get it sent to moderation.

  425.  #425mary on June 5, 2010 at 2:22 am


    Simply Shannon, here I am reading 416 for the first time, and now I understand that it must not have been there when I posted my comment 417.

    Shannon, to me it sounds like you’re a bit more mature and deep than Mr. Fab Kisser. And I just keep thinking how very blessed he was to have you to date! I’m sure he must have learned a lot from you…

  426.  #426mary on June 5, 2010 at 2:23 am

    I just lost my man with the home in the woods! He doesn’t want to date me unless I can start making “decisions”: (to date him only!)

    Tomorrow morning is my date with Island Man.

    Prayers, anyone? I would really appreciate them… !!

  427.  #427Jeannette on June 5, 2010 at 4:14 am

    Mary there are far too many men who want you to themselves….you know what to do…..unless he wants to put that ring on your hand. Tell him what you want. God bless!

  428.  #428Siena on June 5, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Mary, I’d love to hear how that convo went down… I have a feeling I’ll be having the no girlfriend convo very soon, and it’s freaking me out! I feel scared of it!

  429.  #429aprilshowers on June 5, 2010 at 11:22 am

    “If you like it then you shouldv’e put a ring on it…oh,oh,oh.” Beyonce

    Lol. Mary, sing that to man in the woods! Maybe that can be our theme song for exes and feminine energy men.

    Love and sex? I feel so triggered by this post. How can I have sex if I can’t get a man to follow-through on a date. Got stood up AGAIN yesterday. Ugh!

  430.  #430Marissa, on June 5, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Simply Shannon,
    I had posted a thank you response for your comment but wasn’t sure if you’d read it.

    I would like to thank you for what you said. I was a really having a bad anxiety that day. I am feeling a bit better today and I am hoping I would not be thinking too much of him in the coming days.

    Thanks again and I hope you a great weekend.

  431.  #431Rachel71 on June 7, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    I am a little confused as to how this blog works, LOL.
    Anyway I sent the following e-mail directly to Rori, I would like others to read it and feel free to respond and offer advice.
    I’m in a real bind here and hoping you can give me some insight.
    I have been involved with a man for almost 11 years now and I lived with him from 2006 until 2009. Our downfall was three things Financial problems (Mine), his 30 something son’s drug abuse and my boyfriend enabling him and finally my boyfriend fighting cancer last year and ending up emotionally and verbally abusing me. Plus, I was his employee! Crazy I know.
    Anyway, over the last 2 months we have been reconnecting again, with him being very loving towards me, like back when we met.

    I just don’t want to fall back into the same rut of wondering am I here because he wants me here or because of the things I do for him. Which is how I started to feel towards the end of our relationship.
    I know this e-mail cannot give you a complete understanding of my situation and unfortunately because I’ve been mostly out of work for the last 3 years I have no way of purchasing your on-line book or CD’s. But I have been listening to and trying to use the free advice that you offer.
    I guess my question is where do I go from here? I don’t want to come across as defensive but I don’t want to be taken advantage of either, I want to have what you describe as him rowing our relationship boat rather than me always being the one, How do I explain this to him without coming across as defensive or unappreciative of what he has given? And lastly I want him to feel safe enough to finally make that commitment of marriage.

    Any input you can give would be greatly appreciated.

  432.  #432Rori Raye on June 8, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Rachel, Welcome…and if and when you can – just get the ebook…so much bang for your buck there…it has enough of the basic Tools to help you. Then hit the library. See if you can find “Trusting you Are Loved” by Lew Epstein – it will give you the spiritual overview (very Course in Miracles in some places, which I love) of why and how we push love away, while you’re REALLY WORKING the Tools of the Feeling Messages and Overfunctioning and 4 Rules and Sensual Meditation chapters of Have The Relationship You Want…(go to “Rori’s Programs” in the sidebar – or – here, I can do this…a link to the catalog page->)

  433.  #433Rachel71 on June 9, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    We had a fight last night, first one in a very long time, since I moved out in December 09.
    It ended up with me in tears and sitting alone and eating dinner at his kitchen table, while he sat and ate on the couch. Then he abruptly “Dismissed” me shortly after dinner without even an apology for making me feel bad because I made a mistake ( i misunderstood that he could wait for important pics to be developed for his business rather than pay a higher price to have them within an hour). I had rectified the “problem” by not taking the more expensive prints and getting the money and film back and left them with him to take care of it, since he felt I didn’t understand what he wanted. When I tried to discuss it again before he went to bed and as I was leaving he got impatient with me once again and said he did not want to discuss it he already had a headache and headed up to bed, I then left saying “I was only trying to help”. Now I’m not excusing this behavior but I have noticed over the last few days him not looking well and being burnt out over getting things done. He owns/ runs a convenience store single handily. Anyway, Now what? I did express my anger that I felt he was acting like a jerk about my just trying to get the pics developed fast, because that’s what I thought he wanted and he did try to drop the issue and said to sit down and relax and eat dinner. That’s when I sat alone by choice.
    Long story short, I left feeling awful and that things were not resolved, not sure I handled it the right way. So, what do I do now? My friend said to give it a few days and then contact him and see how he is then, reacts to me. Any advice ladies on how I may have handled this differently and how to go from here? Up until these past few days things have been better then ever… especially after all the awfulness of this past year as I described in my previous post.
    Hope this makes sense as I am over tired and emotionally drained.

  434.  #434Rachel71 on June 10, 2010 at 12:06 am

    forgot to mention that this happened Wed. night, and just on Monday night we got along wonderfully and was very loving during sex, as he has been lately. Anyway, I did mention that I really enjoy being with him and later on mentioned that I don’t mind helping him on occasion as long as I’m here because he wants me to be and not because of the things that I do for him. He seemed fine with that on Monday and said he understood. I’ve also last week used “feeling speak” by saying how happy I am that we have been really getting along again.

  435.  #435Rachel71 on June 17, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Wish someone would respond to my posts.

  436.  #436Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Hi Rachel!

    Sorry your posts got kinda lost in the dust…I’ve found when each new thread comes out, most people post primarily on that one. So that’s why…you might want to repost these on that most recent one about “Help From the Good Wife”.

    I feel sad for you with how he hurt you after you were getting along so well. Try feeling messages when things aren’t going well too.

    “I feel awful” as you hold your hand over your heart. If he is in the middle of yelling at you or whatever, rather than fight back verbally or just take the abuse, you could say something like, “I don’t like this at all!” or whatever words fit your style, and simply WALK OUT. Eating alone was a move in that direction, but better yet, to protect your delicate heart while also sending him the message more clearly than a hundred nasty names, walk out.

    After a week or two of this, he will get the message that if he emotionally abuses you, you will not stay. In her “Toxic Men” program, Rori talks about a woman who got her bad marriage with an alcoholic turned around in three weeks.

    I know you have strong feelings of love for him, but try to separate yourself long enough to confirm if you really want to marry a man who doesn’t care about your feelings more than that.

    After all, you were only trying to help HIM. I’m not saying just leave him. I’m saying stay away each time he hurts you. And, no, I wouldn’t contact him in a few days.

    A big part of Rori’s program is to work the powerful feminine energy we have. Let HIM contact YOU. HE abused YOU. So much easier said than done, I know. I am sharing these things with you to reinforce them to myself. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship last year, and I did all the wrong things. Leaning back means only responding when he initiates, unless you feel totally secure in his love.

    We can chat some more, and the other women will be happy to share with you, too, as soon as you get on their radar.

    Sorry you felt neglected here. None of us meant to do that.

  437.  #437Rachel71 on June 17, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Thanks for responding. guess I’m just feeling sorry for myself. one, because I would so much LOVE to be able to buy Rori’s commitment Blue Print, and a couple other of her programs. but because I have no income coming in that’s just not possible at this time. Also, just have been through so much over the last few years with financial and my own emotional problems, (which I have been in therapy for since Dec.09). plus last year going through his cancer and this year my father’s open heart surgery which led to 73 days of hospitalization and rehab. We came very close to losing him.
    So, here I am 39 years old, living with my parents for the first time in like 10 years, no car (got repo’d) last summer, no job and no money.
    T.M.I. LOL.
    Plus lately I think I’m just emotionally exhausted from going through so much in such a short time.

    The only saving grace is that my great-great aunt left me an inheritance that I should be receiving in December. Currently I’m getting food assistance and medical from the State.

    Just hoping it all works out in the end, Like we all do, right?

    Everything has been good between him and I this past week and we communicated well in solving our last “argument”. We had dinner together last night, his treat. (Usually is)

    Just feel like I’m in a do or die situation with my entire life right now. It’s like I’m either going to make it or break it.

    Thanks for listening.
    And yes I hope I get to know more of you on this blog.

  438.  #438Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:15 pm


    I feel sad that you are going thru such a Job-like experience (from the Bible). I have been in comparable situations too many years of my life. It’s tuff. You could read Rori’s initial letters at the beginning of each thread and there is always good information that the women give within them, too, and it’s all free. Have you signed up for Rori’s daily e-letter? She is really wise! I thot that was sweet she recommended a book to you since you couldn’t afford her programs.

    I feel your pain, and I have been thru a whole pile of ruff stuff like that in the past. I’m still digging my way out. Glad you made up.

    Stick close…this blog is a great encouragement! And a nice place to feel close to people in the lonely spells!

  439.  #439Daria on June 17, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Brenda – I felt so encouraged reading your posts to Rachel! you are awesome at encouraging

    I too hope that you can get the book Rachel, i think it is 20$. It is the foundation and you don’t realy “need” the programs but can work directly from the book. it’s the foundation of everything… in fact you’d miss out on the basics jumping straight in the programs

  440.  #440Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Brenda, I feel so happy that you posted to Rachel! And I want to second what Daria is saying.

    I heard once that the most powerful words you can ever say to someone are “me too”. And it’s so true. When someone can relate to where I’ve been, it’s an instant connection and helps me feel relaxed.

    I actually started typing something to Rachel but deleted it because it didn’t feel sincere to me. And then I felt uncomfortable and guilty. Eeek.

    It’s funny though because I KNEW someone would come along who could say “me too” to Rachel. I just didn’t know it would be Brenda. Thank you Brenda!

    Yeah! I love this! I feel all kinds of opened up about this. I don’t have to respond to everyone… just when I feel the pull to do so. No more guilt. Someone else will come along and “me too” them. Sweet!

  441.  #441Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Shannon and Daria,

    Thank you so much! And you’re welcome! I really like it here.

  442.  #442Rachel71 on June 17, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Simply Shannon,
    Anything you wrote would have been fine. But I understand what your saying.
    It’s nice meeting all of you!