She Got The Ring

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Here’s a great letter from Tinque:

“Dear Rori,

I was just reading your latest post about “seeing”, and it make me think about imagining aspects of the life desired, how they do manifest if they are believed.

They seem to take a long while to do so, but they do. They really do.

I was thinking about when I was with J (my ex) and how unhappy I was, knowing this was not the guy for me, yet over time having been beaten down over and over, not allowed to leave or not having the strength to do so, I resigned myself to the situation, yet the entire time I imagined love, a love for me, a man for me, a sweet, affectionate, caring man.

Not two weeks out of the house, not even divorced yet, K comes. It’s not been easy but not because of him or the relationship. It was me and all my stuff that was forced to come out which as you know was something I deeply desired.

K had to trigger me as deeply as he has done in order to do that, yet despite the pain which you know all about, we still had a great relationship which continues to become greater still, as I let go and release which allows for expansion, mine and his, and ours.

So the next piece of this is this…

I have fantasized about a ring since the beginning. I actually dreamed of one in specifics maybe a year or two ago.

Recently I told K about it, for I had asked him awhile ago if I could have a pretty ring anyway, marriage or not, and he had said yes. He asked about my dream, so I told him.

He said he liked my dream, that we should do it, but it would have to be a really nice ring. I didn’t really believe he would go through with it, yet I did.

Before Christmas he told me that he was wanting to get a ring but it wouldn’t be ready for Christmas, whenever the next holiday or celebration that occurs, whenever it’s ready. Well now it’s happening.

We have an appointment with a jeweler next weekend to look at some stones. I’ll leave the final choosing and setting design to him, so at least some will be a surprise. It’s being called my “hussy slut ho ring,” but who knows, maybe he will propose.

Since that’s not been a strong part of my dreams and fantasies, maybe it won’t. Whichever. You’re the first one I’m telling that I’m getting a ring. My dream was of a diamond center with two heart shaped rubies on either side, so this is what it will be. I may have mentioned this dream to you before now that I think about it. I’m so excited!

Love and hugs,
Tinque”

And this letter came soon after:

“Rori, We went to chose stones for the ring on Saturday. A little to my surprise, he opted for bigger. The diamond is gorgeous, color and clarity exquisite, 1 1/2 carat, with two beautiful heart shaped rubies, .60 carat each, again nice color and clarity, on either side. The jeweler will design a band and setting, subtle engraving on the sides of the setting and band but what exactly I don’t know, so there will be some element of surprise. I can’t wait. It’s for birthday – anniversary in  April.

PPS –  Had another breakthrough with my stuff, stuff triggered by always the same as you know. I just went straight to him asking for his help, telling him I’ve been feeling in fear lately, and I don’t want to feel that way. I’m tired of it, especially since it’s unnecessary. We had a talk about fear and about porn. We looked at it together which we haven’t done in a long time. It was all really good.
Love, Tinque”

Okay – this is really great. I’ve always said it’s about the ring – it’s just too bred into us, into the fabric of the society for us to ignore. It happens in our dreams.

And Tinque’s story is about her decision to be okay with this relationship even without marriage, and by making sure the relationship is somewhere she WANTS TO BE – no matter what the officialness of it. Tinque is unusual. She wasn’t sure about marriage because there were so many things to work out about her own feelings.

And now that she’s so much clearer, she was able to speak about the ring in a way that not only could he HEAR – but that inspired him to do something for her that would make her HAPPY.

Go Tinque.

Love, Rori

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53 Comments

  1.  #1Ann on March 11, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Tinque, congrats on the ring and your growth. I love reading how the tools are working for the wonderful ladies here.

    Ag tried to tell you on another post thanks for all your help. My yahoo mail won’t click on the links so I’ll have to google for the blog then post.



  2.  #2Daria on March 11, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    I feel so mad. This world is so fuckin hard. And it’s not fair. One day youre looking at a picture of this man that’s so handsome I was debating in my head whether I would date him considering he’s friends with my ex’s brother. And they’re smiling so hard I think wow God what a dangerous life they live and how hard they are smiling. And then the next day someone writes that their friend’s gone. And then I look and other people have RIP up. Oh. And its him. And I don’t know the boy but I sure looked at his pictures. He was so handsome.

    I feel sad thinking of my own friends that passed away. What’s with this hidden war going on. What really is happening. What is life really about. I feel shocked. A dead boy who’s got pictures holding up other dead boys’ pictures. All these dead people.

    It feels incredible that I would actually think to look for love. That I can have love when there’s a war going on and a man can be gone anytime. I can be gone anytime. I don’t get it. And sometimes it gets me. And I can understand it but I don’t understand it. What’s the best way to live when your man could go kapoof from under you at any second. I feel so scared. I Want to get my life happy. I WANT to have so much money that I can pass it out and have all my friends have a way out of danger. I WANT to believe I won’t be too late. I want to save the world. I WANT to love me and I feel so I don’t even know because I am crying. I don’t know what I feel… I feel stinging on my cheeks and sobbing. I feel so CONFUSED. GOD. I FEEL SO CONFUSED. FUCK.



  3.  #3Linmayu on March 11, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Tinque’s story is just amazing. I love how fearlessly she sticks to her own dreams of an affectionate, caring, loving man and a ring, how fearlessly she allows all her “stuff” to come up.

    It makes me feel like I’m doing the right thing by sticking to, in my mind, the kind of man and relationship that I want.

    Daria, I feel sorry for the loss of this man. It is sad, regardless of whether you knew him. I send a flower hug, and a story that may or may not make anyone feel better considering who it’s about.

    I became engaged to my now ex just a few days after 9/11/2001. I remember feeling so uncertain–like, what if he gets drafted? What if *I* get drafted? Who knows if we’re going to be in World War 3 in a few months? I talked to him and said I didn’t want to stay in the relationship much longer unless it was going somewhere, and he proposed. And I felt like maybe I was doing a Very Bad Thing, like how dare I be celebrating love when so many others had lost their lives? But I also felt like if I DIDN’T celebrate love, then the terrorists would have won.

    There may be nothing at this moment, but for those months in 2001-2002, there was definitely love.



  4.  #4Rori Raye on March 11, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    Also, Daria, and all of you – I’m so proud to know women who are so kind and sensitive – as you are. I bawl my eyes out at injustice – especially toward animals and children – it makes me furious and I feel ineffectual.

    Then I get up and figure out something I can do to change the world – even if it’s making a donation somewhere of time and money. Read Thich Nhat Hanh – about walking peacefully in this challenging world and staying engaged with it.

    Just remember – to help anyone feel better, you can’t be sicker than they are. If you’re going to pull anyone out of being poor – you can’t be poorer than they are. You have to allow yourself to become steady, peaceful and successful in order to help anyone else – and in the process, you have to let YOURSELF be helped so that you can get stronger. Desire is good. Love, Rori



  5.  #5alias girl on March 11, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    life is so short. and i don’t know how to do/be more than i am doing/being. i feel so bad drawing boundaries with people I LOVE SO MUCH and want them near me and i just can’t if they treat me bad. and sometimes life feels like a battlefield of constantly drawing boundaries to protect myself from sick people. and i don’t know how to help people more than i am. and i feel ineffectual just like rori said. and all ii can do is be the best me possible and know that that is helping everyone i come into contact with

    daria i feel so so sorry for your loss. you seem such a sensitive soul. i feel sorry that boy was taken too soon. i feel grief. i feel a desire to send you comfort and wisdom and peace. maybe you can talk to him, some say it is possible to talk to people after they are gone.

    i feel confused.

    i feel honored that women share so deeply and openly of themselves here.

    i feel sick to my stomach. i feel a little release.

    i feel congratulatory for tinique. i feel good to read her story and her faith in herself and her dreams.

    i feel so confused about relationships. i just want to be loving. but it seems loving doesn’t always look like a big rainbow. sometimes it scratches at people like the truth. hi. here is my love. here is my truth. sometimes that’s all i got. and they just walk away scratching and i think- was i loving just then? or was i laaame?



  6.  #6tinque on March 12, 2009 at 10:26 am

    “It feels incredible that I would actually think to look for love.” Daria, oh Daria. That’s what life is all about, love. It’s so much a part of us, stronger than even the power of the fear of death. Life is strange. Sometimes I wonder if it’s all an illusion, a dream because it is so tenuous. It’s as if it shouldn’t be at all. I can only speak for myself, but I feel that fear to varying degrees hovering around me all the time. And fear, any fear always comes back to the fear of death.This is why we push love away. The thought of allowing love in, finally, and then to have it yanked away at any time is an awful, awful thought and feeling. Which is why we strive to live in each and every moment fully. Remember Rori’s recent post about approaching each moment as if you’ve never experienced it before?
    “You have to allow…Desire is good.”
    Oh yes, and yes again. Allow all of it, the good, the icky, for it’s all good, makes us stronger and closer to peace and love, but we have to ALLOW. It hurts to hurt, yet how would you know bliss if you haven’t felt the deepest of abysses.
    And it all starts with DESIRE.
    Linmayu (love your name) and AG, the more you grow within yourself, the more others grow right along with you whether you are aware of it or not. It just happens. If the others in your life can’t grow, you will find they just fade away our of your life, naturally, organically.
    Thank you for wanting to share my story Rori, yet I want to add that as wonderful as this relationship is, I still struggle within myself, my fears, my insecurities, confusion, and also awe. It may slowly fade mostly away, and it may not. It’s certainly not as oppressive as it once was. So AG love isn’t always calm or warm and fuzzy, yet at core you can still feel it flowing gently deep inside. Have you read any of David Deida’s books? He talks only about this. My favorite is Dear Lover, but I also like Blue Truth. It’s written in less flowery language for those who prefer that.
    Love and hugs to all,
    tinque



  7.  #7Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 10:39 am

    “It’s being called my “hussy slut ho ring,” but who knows, maybe he will propose.”

    Gee…maybe he will…who knows….

    WHAT????? OMG!!!!! THIS IS NOT OKAY!!!!!!!!!!

    Rori’s posts are so emotionally challenging sometimes that I figured sooner or later one of them would bring me out of hiding…THIS IS IT!

    I absolutely cannot believe what I’m hearing here. I feel so sad that women are being told to settle this way! Not just sad…I feel ANGRY…actually ANGRIER than I have EVER felt reading something Rori has written!! I realize Rori that you do not see this the way I do, but I’m going to let out some emotion here because this feels HORRIBLE!!

    Tinque has a ring…a ring that she ASKED for and a ring that is something she’ll always look at and have to hear the words “hussy slut ho”! How can that be okay? That is absolutely the most horrible thing I can imagine. Part of her wishes it was an engagement ring (she mentions marriage three times in her letter. Nothing in me believes she doesn’t care one way or the other about marriage…she just can’t admit how much she wants it…not to herself, not to her boyfriend and not to you…and so she secretly hides her desire by saying more than once that “it might happen” “whatever”)…and if it does ever become an engagement ring (which I doubt it will because her man has been told all she wants is a ring and it doesn’t matter if anything else goes along with that) she’ll have to know it started out by labeling her a hussy…a slut…a ho and somehow she’ll have to transition that into a loving commited marriage ring??!! And…the women reading this post…we’re supposed to celebrate that???

    Am I missing something here? This is not a man who stepped up and did something loving and wonderful for the woman he loves. This is a man who wasn’t doing that, so she ASKED him if “I could have a pretty ring anyway, marriage or not” (no strings attached, just give me a ring so I can fantasize about being engaged without really getting engaged)…I’m sure at that point, he’s thinking he has it all. He doesn’t even have to come up with something romantic on his own. All he has to do is spend some money on a ring (he would have spent money on something else anyway for the birthday/anniversary…Christmas – when the ring wasn’t “ready” but funny, they just started picking out stones on Saturday??…hmmm…was the ring STARTED at Christmas???)…and it will passify her forever! He’ll never have to do anything further. Then, he can use the ring to call this woman the most degrading names I have ever heard of…and…to top it off…he can read a blog where women and even a relationship coach will celebrate it and tell her what a wonderful thing she’s done!!!!

    Here comes the masculine me….I’d put that ring on my RIGHT hand…certainly NOT the left one…knock his teeth out with the damn thing right before I sold it on ebay…then…I’d go find a man who was doing nice things…understanding my fears in ways that didn’t include asking me to watch porn with him (which I do with my man once in a while but NOT because I have fears and insecurities but because we BOTH find it sexy and erotic)…buying me jewlery…proposing…all because he wanted to…not because I was asking for it and not because I was willing to take it any way I could get it (including by letting him insult the very thing that is so precious…my being a woman).

    If you see something I don’t, please enlighten me because right now, I feel angry…no…better word: FURIOUS that we’re all being told this is something to celebrate!!!!! and I feel sad for any woman who believes after reading this that you have to take that “buy out”…and that is what this is…he’s buying her out…he’s buying her self-esteem and pride with a ring that means hussy slut ho (words that are a complete insult to ALL women)!! and I feel a desperate desire to tell Tinque that there is soooo much better out there…that she doesn’t have to take that kind of abuse for a ring…that there are loving, wonderful, supportive, sexy men out there who would fall all over themselves to propose to her with a ring that only meant the words: “love, honesty, respect, commitment, faithfulness, adoration, blessing”…and she wouldn’t even have to ask for it!



  8.  #8tinque on March 12, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Oh Mercedes. It’s not at all how you are thinking. I am proud to be his “hussy slut ho”. It’s a game between us, something fun and yet deep with meaning for us both. We have an amazing sex life together. I love being completely open and vulnerable with him, shedding all inhibitions. Again I say I’m proud to be his “cute girl” his “sexy girl” and yes his “hussy slut”. If you saw us together there would be no doubt in your mind how deeply this man loves and adores me, respects me, is deeply committed to me. You would have to be blind to miss it, yet you could still feel it.
    I’ve been married twice before for the same wrong reasons both times. He’s been married once before when for his own wrong reasons. We don’t want children, and we both have fear and maybe it’s an unwarranted fear, but it’s there nonetheless, that marriage will mess up this beautiful thing we have. How can a piece of paper tell us we love each other more? Marriage is a lovely thing, and it does have some spiritual, sacred meaning for me, but it’s also an artificial construct. The only real reason for us to do the marriage thing is for practical reasons, power of attorney in medical situations and the financial ones. There are many deliriously happy couples who chose not to legalize their union, eg. Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell.
    Yes you’re right, there is a piece of me that wants to legalize it, yet there is a bigger piece of me that is afraid of it. The piece of paper has become increasingly unimportant to me. Even if we do decide to do it someday, there will be no hoopla. I won’t want anyone there, just the two of us and a witness. If our friends wish to throw us a party, fine, but it’s not necessary.
    As an aside I didn’t really ask (as in demand) for the ring. A man would balk at demands. I told him a couple of times I would like to have one. Going through with it was all his idea, not mine.
    Love and hugs,
    tinque



  9.  #9Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 11:20 am

    I understand not wanting to be married…I’m there…I don’t want it at all. Which means…if my boyfried proposed…I would say “no” and he knows that. I want to spend the rest of my life with him but not in marriage. I want to be his partner for life…I want to be in his arms for life…I want it all…and I believe we can have that without marriage. You seem to be so unsure of what YOU want. With you, it seems you would do whatever HE wants. If he doesn’t propose you’re okay with that but if he did, you would say “yes”? That doesn’t make sense to me.

    But then again…I can’t imagine being proud to be someone’s hussy slut ho. Not at all proud of that. I can’t find it funny when other people use degrading words like that to define a woman (or anyone for that matter). If you bought something meaningful for him, would it be a funny joke if you called it his “bastard asshole jerkoff” thing?? So many women in this world have self-esteem issues because of words used against them and I can’t find the humor in it. Not at all. How can it be meaningful to you knowing what it means to call a woman that? It’s like finding affection in someone using degrading words to describe your race or religion.

    If it works for you, it works for you but posting something that celebrates it and doesn’t let women know it’s inappropriate is wrong and offensive. As women, we shouldn’t be okay with having our sex degraded. It sends a message to all the women reading this blog that they should be able to laugh off words like that when in reality, those words should hurt (for all women…not just ourselves) and we should be strong enough to tell men that those words are not okay…not funny…not to be tolerated.



  10.  #10tinque on March 12, 2009 at 11:42 am

    I feel badly about all of this. I’m struggling to find the words to maybe help you understand from where I’m coming.
    Marriage – I’m ambivalent is the best word I can find to describe how I feel about it. If he asked, I wouldn’t say no, but it’s perfectly okay if he doesn’t. We are already partners for life, in each others arms for life. We’ve been together for seven years, living together for most of that time.
    This man so takes care of me in all ways. He’s helped me with my less than successful business. He’s supported me in all my endeavors. He dug up the entire backyard for me, and it’s big, that I could have my herb garden to make my face and body potions.
    He asks for no money from me. In fact he has refused to take any. He makes good money, not rich, but fine. He’s careful with it but never stingy. He treats me very well, wines and dines me, takes me to the symphony and the ballet and the opera. all of which I love. He always buys me thoughtful, great gifts for birthdays and Chrismas.
    He’s patiently seen me through my inner work which left me in a dark place for a long while. He’s celebrated my psyche and spirit awakening as well as my sexual one. I could go on and on. He’s shows me he loves me each and every day with actions, affection, care, consideration, and lots of hugs and kisses.
    As for the words that offend you. I understand why they do, for they can and are used in very nasty ways. For me, us, it’s not like that. I suppose it’s tongue in cheek. He’s my “hussy slut ho” too by the way. It goes both ways. The words are being used as a celebration of our sexuality. I’m his sexy goddess woman could be and is used interchangeably, and he’s very clear on this. It may not feel this way to you, but for me, us it’s the same.
    Does this help?
    I just want you to know that this is not a bad thing at all.
    hugs, tinque



  11.  #11Micki on March 12, 2009 at 11:45 am

    I am new here and am enjoying Rori’s emails very much.

    I am in a very unhappy 17-year marriage right now and I don’t know what to do. My husband distanced himself from me years ago and pushed me away by putting his career and our kids and everything else before me…he also constantly berated me and put me down…so much emotional abuse that I put up with…I tried and tried over the years to save the marriage by being a “good wife” and doing what I thought he wanted, but I tired out about a year ago. We had a huge blow-up around Christmas time and I told him I don’t love him anymore. I was ready to separate and work on a divorce. However, his response shocked me. I thought for sure he would be pleased and ready to leave (I honestly didn’t even think he LIKED me anymore), but he wants to work things out. He asked me what he had been doing to push me away. He has been a completely different person since our fight. He is trying so hard now to do EVERYTHING right to save our marriage, but I am not. I don’t feel love or passion for him anymore, and I don’t even have the energy to put forth an effort. I am tired. In fact, sometimes when I see him trying so hard, it repulses me. It’s like he’s chasing after me and I just want to get away. I keep thinking, if only he had done this years ago, when I still cared.

    I also had a 4-month long “emotional” affair with someone he works with – a very handsome, younger man. We met at a work-related party and kept in touch through email, met each other for coffee or drinks a few times. That relationship ended recently (husband doesn’t know about it), but it made me feel sexy and desirable and exciting…something I haven’t felt in a long time. Makes me wonder what else is out there besides the boring, loveless marriage that I am stuck in.

    It seems the right thing to do would be to work on this marriage. But I don’t even feel attracted to my husband anymore. I don’t know if I can ever get it back. He has his claws in me now and won’t let me go…and it is driving me crazy. We do have young children involved so it seems irresponsible to leave when he wants to try. Is it possible to fall back in love again? I just don’t know.



  12.  #12DocK on March 12, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Mercedes – this triggered me as well because of the “slut ho” thing but I can also relate to Tinque so I am feeling confused.

    Those types of labels (slut, ho, tramp, etc.) make me feel angry and belittled because, and I’ve said this before, I always felt these were used by men (and some women) to judge women for expressing the sexual appetite that men get to enjoy. I feel anxiety when a woman uses the term for another woman (when it is NOT said jokingly) because it is a way to “dismiss” the woman. If this is OK with Tinque, however, and a private joke between you and your man – I guess OK.

    I am with Tinque in that I am ambivalent about marriage. I am not immune to the fairy tale – the dress, the ring, the day, etc but realize a relationship that feels like it has a real commitment is the most important thing. I do not want to have children either so I’m not so concerned about a piece of paper but believe there has to be a way for both people to feel secure (emotionally AND financially) and feel at least a little protected. So, I guess I am with you Mercedes that you can have it all without a certificate, but also with Tinque that there is that part of you that feels OK without it but also thinks you’d be OK with it – it is just so much a part of the dream – the wedding, proposal – all of it.

    I enjoy the exchange between the 2 of you and all that I read daily from the comments. I don’t always remark because I feel that I am a sponge absorbing the wisdom of beautiful goddesses and learning and growing and feel like I have “beginners mind” sorting through it all.



  13.  #13Rori Raye on March 12, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Whoa – I LOVE this emotion and fire!! Mercedes – I hear all your fire aimed at me, and thank you for aiming it at me and not at Tinque – though because she’s a post here and a blogger herself and not a commenter – she’s fair game, I appreciate you holding to my rule about no judging or masculine energy opinions around other comments – I want this to be a totally, absolutely safe place, and I’ll delete any comments that I feel make other commenters feel unsafe. Remember – you’re the girls here, I’m the boy.

    Okay – I can really see how, if you’re not following Tinque, you’d see this on the surface differently than I see it.

    I’m not posting and supporting some kind of FINAL RESULT here – I’m celebrating PROCESS.

    And Tinque’s process has been totally amazing – beyond and beyond.

    AND – the “hussy slut” stuff is Tinque’s! This is stuff (and you don’t know the half of it) out of her own imagination that she’s used to grow HERSELF. She’s a major experimenter – major into the 6 E’s – and some of it works and some of it doesn’t – but it’s taken her out of a little box of depression and anxiety and absolute inability to feel anything other than fear and express anything other than “niceness.” into one of the most amazing women I know in her fearlessness and dedication to herself.

    Tinque is a woman, like many, many of us, who could have been on track for a nervous breakdown because of all the tension of stuffing stuff down. And she didn’t break.

    Her journey is of leaping and bounding through the sludge of her feelings, getting stronger by the minute.

    Mercedes – you’re an amazing woman, and I can hear the strength of you – your ability to draw boundaries and express yourself. I’m thrilled to hear your righteous anger and flat-out distaste – and again would like to encourage you to aim your anger at me rather than at anyone else here.

    The whole point of this blog is to trigger ourselves – and this one did a great job! Getting angry at someone else’s lack of power is all about us. This is about your Stranger, and my Stranger, and about having strong opinions about what’s right and wrong – and I really want to encourage you to speak from your feelings – not about someone else – but how this kind of stuff affects YOU.

    I like “hussy slut ho…” it would feel good to me in context of my marriage. It feels like playing. It feels fun.

    And it triggers you differently.

    I know that you’re not upset with Tinque – but that you’re upset with me for celebrating this step of hers – it doesn’t seem in context with all my talk about “power.”

    Tinque is on a different and unusual and fairly amazing journey. She’s a highly sensitive, intuitive person – who is extraordinarily in tune with her body sensations and the energy going through it. Her ability to experience feelings and energy – and she’s been experimenting with this through many avenues, and getting the most traction out of practicing opening her heart during sex – is quite extraordinary. Her life right now is about exploring and experimenting – not about results. It’s just a different place.

    Also – her ability to communicate with her man is incredibly deep – and considering where she started, it’s a practically unheard of leap of faith and a model of regaining power, slowly, bit by bit. She’s almost unrecognizable from the person she was 2 years ago.

    She’s a testament to the principle that “You gotta work with where you ARE – not where you want to be or where people tell you you should be.” You can only baby-step from where you are – embracing yourself and loving yourself every step of the way.

    And my celebrating this is that so many of us feel SO STUCK – Tinque’s getting the ring, in this situation, is HUGE. A huge step. And how Tinque is handling everything around it is huge. It’s something that he would have resisted a while ago – and now he’s all over it, wanting to do this for her. This is huge.

    No matter what – it’s still got to be one step at a time. This one was big.

    I want you to know that you can have huge, big steps – even if they don’t look all that big to anyone else. We’re all different. We all have different things to learn. I can guarantee you that what Tinque is able to do inside herself, the pleasure she’s able to feel, is something you’d want for yourself.

    Mercedes – I hope to keep this going – see if you can imagine something going on here that’s outside of your “opinion” about what being a slut, even a whore, inside a safe relationship might be like, and what even allowing that idea triggers inside you.

    We are made up of many parts, many voices. Let them all ring out and have their say. Let them contribute to you. You get to stay in charge and make the decisions about what feels good – but you have to embrace it ALL in order to be wise.

    One woman’s ring is another woman’s trap. One woman’s journey is another woman’s abyss. One woman’s great life is another woman’s hell. Fulfillment takes many shapes. The key is to find your happiness.

    Love, Rori



  14.  #14Katja on March 12, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Hi ladies 🙂

    I just wanted to say that I feel happy for you,tinque. I visit your blog occasionally and I understand what you mean with this hussy slut ho stuff 🙂

    To me it’s also not a bad thing and I would be proud of myself if I were in your shoes. I am still struggling with sexuality, with fear of intimacy and my self-esteem in general. But I am on the right path and I am learning more each day and feel better each day except for the sexuality part…which makes me feel sad. I don’t feel sexy right now and I don’t know how to get it back. Any advice for me?

    Love to all of you,
    Katja



  15.  #15Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    I believe that he loves you…those things he does for you…well…that’s great and I feel a lot of happiness for you. The words themselves are offensive and I cannot apologize for that and will not change my position on it. They are very hurtful words.

    It doesn’t matter to me whether you want to get married or not or even how you feel about it. If you both know how you feel and you’re ready and willing to let him control if you ever become a married woman…that’s okay with me. It’s different for me and that’s okay too. I know we don’t all have the same relationships and I know we SHOULDN’T all have the same relationships. I have something wonderful and I want it for everyone…but realistically…I know what I have and what I want is not the same as what everyone else has or what they want.

    My problem and what triggers me more than anything is something like that being posted without an explanation of why using degrading words to describe a woman is not okay.

    My problem is that this blog is for women who want to learn how to bring a man closer and who want to learn tools to connect with the man of their dreams and who struggle with those things….and then…along comes a post that celebrates the very thing that keeps many down.

    You’ve done a wonderful job of explaining how fantastic and loving your relationship is (i hope everyone reads your responses to me because it better explains what you have than the post itself did). But a post titled “She Got the Ring” and then goes on to quote your words of possibly hoping for a proposal (or not) and of you asking for the ring with no strings attached (I didn’t use the word “demanding” and didn’t mean it that way…just that asking for it – in my mind – isn’t the same as a man doing it because he loves us) and then asks us to celebrate degrading words with no explanation of why it happened and why we shouldn’t allow it…well…it feels so wrong. It triggered me in a way that caused a lot of sadness and anger.

    I’m sure you have the right relationship for you. Of that, I have no doubt and I hope it always continues that way for you. As far as the words go…I hope that your situation is unique and that women all over this world are in a place where they are not allowing any man to call them those things…ever. I know it’s probably as hard for you to see my point of view as it is for me to see yours, but if it really is with love and affection that he calls you those names, I really struggle with the decision to tell other women. It sends the message that degrading name calling is funny and sexy and that it means the same thing as “goddess” and “sexy girl”. For most women (I hope) it doen’t mean those things. And I hope that most of us would not allow it.



  16.  #16tinque on March 12, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    thank you Rori. so beautifully said. I also want to second in a big way—–
    “We are made up of many parts, many voices. Let them all ring out and have their say. Let them contribute to you. You get to stay in charge and make the decisions about what feels good – but you have to embrace it ALL in order to be wise.”
    Love to all,
    tinque



  17.  #17DocK on March 12, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Rori – thank you for your “take” on this. I feel calmed by your response.

    I know that the “slut ho” thing does trigger me when it is used against a person. I have been called so many names so often.

    Once upon a time I wrote a little essay titled, “Why I am Glad I am (STILL) called a Blonde Bimbo” joking that if after all these years, obtaining a doctorate, earning a respectable living and the things I have accomplished, I am still given this label – maybe I am doing something right. You have to feel the humor of it all. HA.



  18.  #18Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Rori: I did direct it at you because…like I said in my last post, I believe (after hearing Tinque’s responses to me…not after reading the post) she has a wonderful relationship that she can be proud of. The post didn’t explain that though…it used degrading (and I won’t change that description) words to celebrate something. I simply couldn’t get my hands around that. I felt that everyone reading here deserved an explanation.

    A lot of us have come so far in our journeys and I hated so much to see the message being sent. It triggered my anger enough to go back on my original thoughts about ever posting here again. I always read your posts and I love most of them. I’ve been angered before, but never in this way.

    I guess the way I see it is this. A man calls a woman degrading names. The two of them are okay with it. A woman sitting across the table from them is struggling with how to find a man and bring him closer. She sees this loving relationship (like yours and Tinque’s) and hears those words. So…that’s the message for her. Let a man degrade you and all women and he’ll love you. That’s the message that was sent without any explanation of what the heck was going on. It works the same way for me as it does when I see a celebrity do something horrible. They are role models whether they want to be or not. Your posts are role models for us whether you want them to be or not. So…when something bad happens to the celebrity….someone needs to explain (usually their PR person via a leak the press)…and with your posts…someone needed to explain why, in this situation, it’s okay but in the course of a normal relationship…it’s not okay. It makes me so sad that words like that are sexy and fun. It’s not my “opinion” of what those words mean….even the dictionary gives a negative (toward women) definition of the words.



  19.  #19Katja on March 12, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Everyone has her own opinion about this slutty ho stuff. But I see this like Rori said…playful,fun,teasing. I used to be triggered by that,too,when my man said he wants me to be his girl,his woman,his future wife and his slut in bed. But now I realized that this was nothing bad. It meant for him he wants me to be a woman who enjoys sex and who loves sex and is fun,too.



  20.  #20Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    oh…and when I used the phrase “normal relationship”…umm…that’s not exactly what I meant. LOL. What I meant was that for most women in most relationships, name calling isn’t okay. I didn’t mean you and Tinque don’t have normal relationships. oops. 🙂 bad choice of words.



  21.  #21tinque on March 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Just a thought Mercedes. Have you considered asking your yourself why this triggers you so much, these words in particular? It seems deeply personal. When something has such an impact on me, it usually means it’s arousing me and bringing to the surface something I need to look at.
    Since this is something that touches you in this way, I can see why you would react as you did. I of course know my own story as does Rori. You are mostly in the dark about it, so you were getting a piece out of context. I’m so glad this all came out as it did.
    That said I agree that women are often presented in a poor light, as second class citizens, as sex objects, and that doesn’t feel good a all, but any man worth anything does not buy into that and would be as offended as you would be or nearly so since it’s not as personal for him as for you or any other woman.
    I have never had any negative experience with those words, so for me they don’t not carry a charge, and I can use them as a celebration of my sexuality. I also understand that is not necessarily the case for other women. Men too by the way have labels that carry just as a negative a connotation, gigolo, player, playboy, etc., yet these words can also be used and are used in ways that don’t seem awful. I personally hate these words.



  22.  #22DocK on March 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Wow – SO MUCH feeling around this. Good thing, no? Also, Tinque can you feel that we were feeling so protective of you as well?

    Recently, dressed up for my guy in the most feminine, girly little outfit. Told him that he would crack up when he first saw it (he did – but wow did we have fun). Some women think this is degrading but he dresses up for me too. To each his/her own. Maybe just a little projecting and lots of thinking in the midst of all this feeling. Learning, learning, learning. I feel so happy when I’m learning. Thank you.



  23.  #23alias girl on March 12, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    i feel curious. and also slighlty amused. ah then guilty for feeling amused. and then amused for feeling guilty. i feel intriguied. i feel delighted that mercedes is back with a storm.i feel fear and judgmental accusations. i feel compassion.

    i feel empathy for both sides of the equation. or rather all sides since there are actually more than two.( which makes the word equation perhaps not the best choices of words? ah the intrusion of not being able to backspace )

    it’s like rappers taking back the word nigger. niggaz. nigga. yo homie.

    slut ho hussy floozie bitch

    loaded words for sure.

    it’s like some women have taken back the word bitch and call each other that.

    we can take words that have been loaded up with energy by society and recreate them if we want.

    i personally would not want my forever ring attached to the name whore. IN THE CONTEXT OF SOCIETY’s MEANING OF THAT WORD.

    but two people come together and they make a world of their own and sometimes a language of their own. and for tinque it sounds like it is a matter of well being that that is the chosen pet name for the ring. i celebrate the swetness of the intimacy that two people have created. i feel happy for tinque because SHE IS HAPPY.

    who can judge from the outside what is good or bad between two people? i feel certain i would not want your ideal relationship mercedes. or tinques’s. or ann’s. or maria’s or cassandra’s or flipper’s or ginals or dock’s or linda’s or linmayu’s or daria’s or even rori’s. and i am equally certain that none of you would want would i would find ideal.

    i feel very pleased you are back mercedes. 🙂



  24.  #24Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    “Mercedes – I hope to keep this going – see if you can imagine something going on here that’s outside of your “opinion” about what being a slut, even a whore, inside a safe relationship might be like, and what even allowing that idea triggers inside you.”

    When I do this, it triggers the same things as being called a bitch or a cunt. My boyfriend and I tease each other all the time…never with names that send a negative message. I’m not talking about sarcasm here…I use it and so does he. We tease each other, we play, we love, we laugh. Everyone tells us we’re “different” and we “have something special”. We have strangers come up to us and tell us how happy we seem together. Just last week someone told us that “the world didn’t seem right” when they see us apart. It’s so cool. My point is, people pay attention to other people’s relationships and I want more than anything to inspire women. I do it at work (on a professional level…not a personal level)…in counseling young sex abuse survivors (or those who are still victims but will eventually become survivors)…in working with teenage girls on the problems and pressures teens face today. Women need to be strong. Words like that aren’t funny to me. They don’t send the right message. Do you know how many young girls I talk to that allow their boyfriends to talk to them in that manner? And here…I get to see you…who seems so strong and sure and confident…tell others that in the context of your marriage, those words are playful and sexy. That’s hard. Too many don’t see it that way.

    I’m so grateful I responded to this post though. I think it helps clear up where you were coming from and I hope that when you write something that, as you said, seems to go against everything you’re teaching us, that you will take the time to give us a little background so that we don’t lose site of what’s important. It didn’t take me long to jump to the conclusion that you were celebrating this horrible thing (as it appeared to me…not as it was later explained) and I couldn’t help but feel dejected that so many women were going to continue to learn from you while you celebrated something like that. I was mistaken in what you meant (and what Tinque meant) but still stand firm in that words that demoralize women aren’t funny and should be used VERY carefully (if you feel you must use them). You never know who’s watching, listening and learning from that example.



  25.  #25tinque on March 12, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    DocK – Yes absolutely I feel your protectiveness, and I feel so grateful and happy to know you all and follow your stories too.
    I feel taking care of yourself includes taking care with your appearance. He will love you regardless, but he will also appreciate the effort. It’s an indication of caring, about him and you.
    AliasGirl – Strangely but somehow the word whore feels icky. It’s lost its funness, its playfulness, any appeal when used in this way, its original meaning, a selling of one’s body and thus one’s self.
    You hit the nail on the head. We have created our own world unique unto itself, and in our world we have our own language, many words no one else is party to. Pet name is perfect. I love you for this.
    The ring is a token, a symbol, a sealing of the deal if you will, yet it doesn’t change anything really, maybe in subtle ways. The same with that piece of paper. In my heart, the ring feels more meaningful, more deeply representative of his feelings for me. For me to say I can even feel that in my heart is huge. That I can feel his feelings let alone my own is even huger. Rori barely touched the surface by saying I couldn’t feel anything much side from fear and anxiety. I was mostly numb too if that makes any sense.
    This discussion is amazing. Thank you all.



  26.  #26Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Alias girl: “back with a storm” eh? I LIKE that!! LOL 🙂

    Tinque: It triggers me because women have come so far and we need to hang onto that. Women should be cherished and celebrated, not degraded. I’ve never personally been called any of those things, but I know what they mean. Women at one time were not even allowed to vote. Very strong women fought, marched, protested, were spit on and threatened their children were tormented, etc so that we all can go to the polls and be a part of government in America. Now, that isn’t personal to me, but…it’s so incredibly important to how all women can live today…it’s incredibly important to me. So…if anyone were to say (jokingly) that this country sucks because women are out there voting and shouldn’t even be allowed to….well…that would trigger me…a LOT! (ummm…worse than what I’m doing here I might say…lol). You see, I’m all about teaching young women to be strong and confident and courageous. It triggers me because those words are the EXACT opposite of what I teach. It screams the words “worthless”, “prostitute”, “whore” and I can’t sit back and let that roll off me…it doesn’t work that way with me. An explanation was deserved and I think we have it. I’ll still have my own opinion and I’ll still knock my guys teeth out if he EVER calls me that (lol) but an explanation from Rori was what I was after and what I felt the readers here deserved. And….I’m still angry and still hate that it’s okay…but…that part is…YES…my opinion.



  27.  #27tinque on March 12, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Mercedes – Most definitely. Women have fought hard and well for what we have, and we have come far. We were once possessions with no rights, yet in some ways I still feel as a second class citizen. It would and has triggered me greatly when I’ve heard those exact words you cited.
    If these words we’re discussing were said with derogatory intent, it would trigger me too, yet somehow when used in the way we do, my man and I, it just doesn’t have any semblance of that. It’s playful and fun. It’s spoken with love and admiration.
    I respect how you feel about them though, and I promise I will never call you that even with love 🙂



  28.  #28Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Does the intent really matter when you know the meaning? That’s hard for me and it makes me feel very sad. I totally understand he isn’t being mean when he says it, but…it IS mean…regardless of the intent. If he had no idea what the words meant, that would be different and once explained he could change his behavior, but…it hurts me to see that set as an example. I don’t know how else to explain it…it’s sad that in this day and age, we can become so used to being treated badly that we are able to take words and forget the true meaning and laugh and even come to cherish it.

    And I will never call you them either…lol



  29.  #29tinque on March 12, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Hi Katja,
    For some reason you showed up in my e-mail but not here, not yet maybe.
    I have lots of advice about your sexuality. Patience first and foremost followed closely by gentleness.
    One of the best ways to find your sexuality and come to love it and the lovely container in which it is found, your body, is through self-exploration, masturbation. Spend some time regularly, often with yourself. Touch yourself all over, with your fingers, with feathers, with whatever feels good to you. Take long luxuriant baths. Play. Play with yourself. Find the touches, the pressures that feel the best to you. LINGER. TEASE. The longer you play without orgasming, the huger the orgasm will ultimately be. The more you do this the more sensitive you will become, the more you will be able to feel. I avoid toys because I found immediately that the sensations were just too much to the point of painful, and I have also read over and over again that toys desensitize you, your tissues, so you are ultimately defeating the purpose.
    Saida Desilets has a great book on unlocking your sensual self, Emergence of the Sensual Woman. I love the jade egg too which she talks about at length and sells. You can just wear it and/or do exercises with it. I can tell you more if you wish.
    Margot Anand’s Sexual Ecstasy is another good one.
    Awakening sleeping female tissues is a process. We store everything in our vaginas, all the hurts, the traumas all of which numb even deaden this area, not allowing us to feel and experience all that we can feel. It takes letting go our stuff.The more emotional stuff you can release, the more this area will awaken too.
    Keep with it. Be patient and loving.
    I have gone from having nice yet in retrospect shallow rather ho hum orgasms to having blow my head off ones, usually multiple. I can feel them coming from different areas in my vagina, from the clitoris, the g-spot, all the way to the cervix, up and through my body, and they all feel different. When it comes from all areas at once, oh my….
    And I can feel there’s yet more to experience.
    I also want to add that there is no greater turn on for a man than to see his woman in sexual ecstasy and if he’s the cause, well no more need be said.
    love and hugs,
    tinque



  30.  #30Linmayu on March 12, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I like to joke around with dirty words. My rule is that if it feels funny then it’s OK (and will get equal retaliation), but if it feels in any way demeaning, I won’t allow it. A man gets to use demeaning language with me exactly once. A second time, and he’s gone.

    For some reason, “slut” and even “cunt” don’t really bother me–IF said as a joke only. I have a book titled Cunt on my shelf. Many of the guys I talk to say that all men are sluts. “Bitch” and “whore,” on the other hand…good luck keeping your testicles if you call me that.



  31.  #31tinque on March 12, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    I don’t know Mercedes. Words mean only what you attach to them. A whore is a prostitute which means a woman who accepts money for sex, a profession some may feel is legitimate and not degrading to them at all and only an aspect of who they are, not the whole person, and in and of itself benign.
    The ‘n” word is used freely in the black community, no bad feelings there, yet outside that community it becomes a “bad” word, yet it’s still the same word.
    A blonde to some conjures up a bimbo image and to others a beautiful woman.
    A hussy slut to some can be a promiscuous woman with no self-respect, and I might agree if she sleeps with anything that has a dangly between his legs, but to others it’s a woman who celebrates her sexuality in the loving embrace of her beloved.
    It’s semantics. It’s personal. It’s individual.
    I still respect your feelings and embrace you.
    hugs,
    tinque



  32.  #32tinque on March 12, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Since Katja’s comment didn’t come through for whatever reason, I’m cutting and pasting it for you all.

    Author: Katja
    Comment:
    Hi ladies 🙂

    I just wanted to say that I feel happy for you,tinque. I visit your blog occasionally and I understand what you mean with this hussy slut ho stuff 🙂

    To me it’s also not a bad thing and I would be proud of myself if I were in your shoes. I am still struggling with sexuality, with fear of intimacy and my self-esteem in general. But I am on the right path and I am learning more each day and feel better each day except for the sexuality part…which makes me feel sad. I don’t feel sexy right now and I don’t know how to get it back. Any advice for me?

    Love to all of you,
    Katja



  33.  #33Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    I see many of our young people today using derogatory words to describe themselvs and others. It is taken as a joke and it is widely accepted. When I’m long gone and the younger generation is counseling young girls who haven’t even been born yet as I type this, it probably won’t even come up because it will be so common. That saddens me. It feels like a step back.

    For my part, I will always demand true respect from anyone I associate with and true admiration from the man I love. No joke. He wants to call me a pet name…it had better set a good example to any woman listening. I want everyone who see us to see kindness and love and happiness and fun and joy and I’ll never let him demoralize all women to accomplish that. Just as I would never sit back while he jokingly referred to another woman as a whore…I won’t sit back while he does it to me. I’m not at all saying that’s what’s happening in the relationships between Tinque and Rori, but that’s how it would feel to me if my man did it or if I saw it happening to somone else.

    Clearly I’m the most triggered by this here but…it feels so wrong no matter how much it is justified and I pray that any young woman who isn’t far enough along in her journey to understand the difference will read not just the post here but also ALL of the responses and will be able to see that difference and apply it to her life.



  34.  #34Daria on March 12, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Dear Miki!

    Wow. Your experience, although it feels awful, is a testament that Rori’s tools work. OF COURSE when you “gave up” (which according to Rori you should have been doing all the time) he came back and wants you. when you were ready to leave he “stepped up” because you were putting in no effort (according to Rori women should never be putting in effort, that is the man’s part. Any effort would push him away).

    Of course when you had an emotional affair (which sounds like Circular Dating and is what Rori recommends to actually SAVE a marriage) you felt better… and I bet your husband felt it too without knowing.

    It is very much up to you what you want to do, but it sounds like you are in a low place and I feel sad about that. Please get and read Rori’s book.

    Also you can do the Power and Self Esteem posts (on the bar to the right of this blog) and start with the older ones that have you do lists. You want to RAISE your self esteem so that you can feel good, and be able to express your feelings in the moment. That will help you no matter what you decide to do in this relationship.

    Love,
    Daria



  35.  #35Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Tinque: you say “I don’t know Mercedes. Words mean only what you attach to them.”

    Oh how I wish that were true. If it were, there would be so few hurt feelings and demoralizing and fear and pain in this world…yet…how would we know what people meant? Would it matter? If we all just attached what we wanted to other people’s words, would it matter what they “meant”….no….because we’d have our own meaning. Unfortunately, some words are bad and they do tear apart others from the inside and those scars can last forever. And within the black community, the use of the n-word is different. Just as it is different when a man calls a woman a “hussy” vs when a woman calls another woman the same thing. When a white man calls a black man a “n”…it’s demoralzing to all blacks. Period. I don’t care how much he’s joking. When a man calls a woman a “hussy”…it’s demoralizing…

    We can talk for the rest of my life and I’ll always feel this way.



  36.  #36Katja on March 12, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Wow tinque…thank you for your comment!!! I appreciate that so much! Feels great to actually get some advice in this field. I will try what you suggested and I will let you know if it works for me. When I read what you wrote about orgasms I felt like crying.

    I had no sex for one year with my man,I was pregnant and have an almost six-month-old daughter now. And still no sex. I mean no real sex. We are kissing and touching etc. occasionally,but no real sex. I feel really sad about this. I feel bad about my body and about myself. But I am willing to work on myself and build up my self-esteem and I will absolutely try what you wrote. Masturbation was never in the picture for me. I felt embarrassed about it.

    Thank you again for your response!

    Love and hugs!!!



  37.  #37tinque on March 12, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I was just in the shower and was trying to think of the worst word for me, one that I just hate and cringe when I hear it. That word is cunt.
    You know what? That word dates back to the Middle Ages if not before. Cunny which was shortened to cunt meant nothing more than pussy would today or feefee in my language.
    If you can read middle english or you can find a translation, Chaucer is full of that word.
    Interesting how the implication of that word changed for most of us.



  38.  #38tinque on March 12, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    one more thing. Mercedes, I just want you to know that I totally understand how you feel. Words do hurt, yet they are only words. Most people speak from their own little world, a projection of what’s going on within themselves. If you can remember this next time someone says something that feels bad, maybe it will not feel so awful.



  39.  #39Daria on March 12, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    I feel triggered and defensive. It feels angering and exciting to read this. I felt confused about the “hussy, slut, ho” name calling, and re-read the the post several times to really feel the feeling behind it. It seems that ANYTHING taken without the feeling it envokes can be used out of context. That’s why I don’t feel worried about someone else picking up bad ideas about relationships by watching others. Because if they were feeling the “feeling” in the message then the true message would be heard. If they were simply watching what is being done without paying attention to the feelings, then they would be missing the point.

    I realized after re-reading that this expression felt good to Tinque. It didn’t really feel super good to me, yet I can think of other wo

    I feel glad that the meaning of words is FLUID. That we can use them to mean what we WANT them to mean. I love that. Hence was loving our earlier body part discussion where we were practicing saying names for our body parts.

    It seems sad to miss the feeling behind the words. The feelings are much more important. If a word doesn’t feel good to a woman, it feels very important that she can communicate that. But if a word feels comfortable then it feels angering to hear that using this word is just “wrong.”

    yes it feels scary sometimes to reclaim these words and infuse them with good feelings. Might it bring along the previous connotations? Might we might fall into a trap. Since we are loving all parts of ourselves, even the Disgusting feeling ones, I feels like will be ok, liek the triggers will be triggered and loved and embraced and transformed, and thus the words.



  40.  #40Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Tinque: It doesn’t feel awful to me for me. I’m strong enough to handle it if anyone ever referred to me that way. It wouldn’t happen twice that’s for sure! It feels awful for the message it sends to women who aren’t quite strong enough to defend themselves. Those women out there who are being hurt (consistently) by words…even though they are just words…these women are being torn apart by them. It’s the lack of knowlege of your situation when Rori put up the post that about put me over the edge (and it would again if I had it to do over). It’s sad to me. It angers me. It triggers me. Keeping in mind that they’re “just words” isn’t going to help when we all know that there are many women writing here and reading here and being here for the purpose of learning to be strong, independent, sexy, powerful, wonderful goddesses and yet they hear (without any explanation) that if their men call them hos or hussys or sluts…well…that’s cute…it’s funny…no worries.

    Someone needed to speak up for the verbally abused women in this world and I figured it might as well be me…



  41.  #41Daria on March 12, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    I feel angry and pushed back. I feel my face is tense. I feel tense and numb. I feel glad to notice this feeling because it is a pattern for me of how I feel when I feel attacked. I LOVE my feelings and my pattern of defense. And that feels like smiling and saying MMMHHH.

    HAHAHA… I feel mischievous now.

    And hungry…



  42.  #42alias girl on March 12, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    miki. i almost would have missed your post if it hadn’t been for daria. sometimes new user comments get posted later because they await approval and yet they’l show up at the top of a page lost in the middle of a discussion because they get posted by the time they were written.sadly sometimes new people get overlooked because of this. i feel grateful this did not happen.

    yes, i feel people can fall back in love. rori’s ebook is a Great place to start and is a really good foundation for all of rori’s tools. it is not too expensive and i believe you can download it right away.

    just starting to use i feel and i don’t want statements will cause a good shift for you. rori always suggests we follow our feelings in situations. you can just moment to moment follow how you feel about trying to make your marriage work good again. certainlyyou would learn alot about yourself by giving it a go. as rori says Free Therapy!

    if you start using the rori tools. the mantra. the lean back. etc. clarity will come about what is BEST FOR YOU. 🙂



  43.  #43Daria on March 12, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    I find myself not writing much because I feel triggered and feel NUMB.

    Again I FEEL SO GLAD TO BE FEELING THIS HERE (although I just took 2 phonecalls and my feelings have loosened up a little bit).

    This is SO my anger, defensive, feeling attacked response.

    It’s like I can let people say stuff to me or around me that makes me feel upset and triggered and scared and angry (even sometimes mean stuff like upsetting names) and I don’t feel like I can respond well. My face feels frozen.

    My response is frozen “cool” body posture, usually with real numbness in my arms and maybe legs, talking to myself in a very calculating way in my head. The only response I think I have is to Physically attack which I fortunately feel very cautious about doing (I almost never do it). However if I DON’t SPEAK OUT or DON’T PHYSICALLY ATTACK I feel AWFUL about myself and it takes me weeks or longer to let go of replaying the incident and feeling angry at myself. I feel like a coward, which goes against what I expect from myself.

    Help? I want to denumb and respond appropriately, not only with stone coldness or violence.



  44.  #44alias girl on March 12, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    if someone is TRIGGERED it is about the person being triggered.

    censorship is a form of bondage and lack of freedom.

    i Hope that my ideal man refers to me as a whore in the bedroom sometimes.

    if someone i don’t know calls me a whore. and i am not a whore. ??? ok. that person is just mean and weird. or if i am a whore and someone calls me a whore. maybe i don’t mind it and say yes, that’s what i am. i was intending to be a whore for awhile to play out what that feels like. or if i am a whore and someone calls me a whore and i feel shame then the shame is already within me. the other person’s mean name callingjust Triggered it.

    being triggered is the person being triggered issues. deal with one’s own issues and draw boundaries. ie. please don’t call me that.

    BUT PLEASE I FEEL STRONGLY THAT I DO NOT WANT SOMEONE ELSE CENSORING WHAT IS AND ISN’t PROPER.

    HAH. i feel triggered. 🙂



  45.  #45Mercedes on March 12, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Miki – I too missed your post…but that’s probably because I can be rather long winded…umm…maybe you noticed. lol

    My heart goes out to you because my situation was almost exactly like yours. A 17 year long loveless marriage with children involved (I almost fell off my chair when I read that…it was my life) and by the time he wanted me back…I was done…emotionally disconnected. That’s hard…really hard. I can’t tell you what to do. I don’t even have advice…but I can feel for you and with you.

    I do believe people can fall in love again…your husband did…mine did…so…it can happen. It didn’t happen for me, but if your marriage can be saved, I will pray it happens for you.

    Much love,
    Mercedes



  46.  #46Ann on March 12, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    I hope my computer will let me post my comment I”m still trying to learn how to post from my phone

    As I read this blog I see so much more on preception(my period isn’t working for some reason) What
    feels good to one of us might feel degrading to another For me slut and ho are two words I don’t
    won’t to be called even playfully BUT I feel a celebration from Rori’s post and Tinque’s letter

    I personally have no problem being called a bitch in a playful way, even in a that’s what you are way
    if that’s where I am at the moment Because MY perception of the word bitch is:A female who is
    simply standing up for herself and usually when it pisses someone off they want to say bitch If they
    can’t take me standing up for me that’s their problem not mine

    I felt good reading the post, I didn’t feel degraded in the least even with the use of the words
    hussy, slut and ho They weren’t being directed at me and I read a playful tone in them so it didn’t
    trigger any anger that your man would call you that I read it as you could be just as free as you wanted in bed

    Thank you for sharing part of your journey I wrote this on notepad now I hope I can get my computer
    to stay connected long enough I can send it

    I’ve enjoyed reading what I’ve read so far Thanks Rori for giving us your take in the comments too



  47.  #47Samat on March 13, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Sometimes people don’t attach the negative meanings to negative words when they haven’t had a negative experience related to those words. Experiences that trigger and hurt. Still negative words shouldn’t be used and it doesn’t matter if it’s for fun, teasing, playful or whatever. There should be some boundaries? Also allowing these in any context makes it ok for others to use these labels. I feel triggered.



  48.  #48Micki on March 14, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Thank you so much to those who responded to my comment! I have really enjoyed this blog and reading the comments so much. I hope to stick around and get to “know” some of you here. It is nice to have a place to go and talk about relationships…I haven’t had anyone to talk to about my situation. It’s comforting to know that others have been through similar circumstances and made it through… (thanks Mercedes for sharing yours!) Another thing is I see a lot of conversation going on here without a lot of judgment…that is great.

    I guess I don’t really even know what I want. I would love to feel “in love” and passionate about my husband again but I feel so numb toward him.

    Also, this emotional affair I mentioned…it was fun and empowering while it lasted, but it’s over now and I have felt down because I really, truly miss this man I was seeing…although I think he’s a different person than who I thought he was in the beginning. He noticed how unattentive my husband was toward me and I think he used that to target me…he just started giving me everything that my husband wasn’t…acted interested in me, we had great conversations and laughed together, he constantly complimented me, telling me how sexy and beautiful I was and that he couldn’t help being attracted to me…I became putty in his hands. Although we kept things light and fun, and I never ONCE talked about wanting to leave my husband, he just suddenly disappeared from my life without even saying good-bye. Thank God I was strong enough not to sleep with him… In one way having the emotional affair did make me wonder what else is out there…but in retrospect, I also think this guy was just “playing” me and it has made me realize how vulnerable and naive I would probably be out there in the real dating world. If I find myself single again, I have a lot to learn. Obviously, I have a lot to learn as a married woman too. 🙂

    I want to read Rori’s book so I am hoping I can purchase it sometime…right now I’ve had some other expenses so I can’t really afford it, but hopefully it will be soon. I am very interested in knowing more about “circular dating” and how that works within the context of a marriage.



  49.  #49Tracy on March 15, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Hey Micky,
    thanks for sharing your experience…it feels inspiring to learn so much from everyone about marriage the challenges and how it really is..it feels so encouraging for the rest of us and i feel by being honest about our real experiences we are able to find better answers to our queries whatever they maybe..
    in one of the previous posts there was the same question about circular dating in marriage..i’l try and paraphrase…circular dating also about taking care about you.getting a new hair cut,doing something new you’d enjoy…taking care of yourself..loving yourself more..
    it can also be smiling at your colleagues at work,or a guy just walks passes by you..keeping eye contact…listening at level 2..simply just receiving love from the world…it felt scary for me at first but with time i started enjoying it…



  50.  #50Cassandra on March 23, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    I too feel deeply triggered by this post…I feel afraid to say that…I feel frustrated that those words are even used jokingly and I feel that they most definitely bring things up in me that need attention paid to them in a big way…I feel sort of uncomfortable posting but don’t know why…I feel angry that any woman would be called those names and be ok with it but I also feel that everyone deserves to have their own ‘thing’ that is funny… safe and ok for them within the context of their own relationship that others cannot or would not understand…….just because it would totally not work for me does not make me feel that it may not work for someone else…..I feel trepidation saying anything about this or even posting about this for some reason…..I feel angered and triggered by this post and it does not feel good to feel that way but I want to dig deeper to find out why I am so triggered by this even though I am not involved….I want to know more….I feel that it is really critical for me to figure out exactly why…what..how…etc and how to work thru that. Dealing with the things that I am dealing with in the relationship or non-relationship that I am in makes me feel angry that anyone is called those kind of names at all….ever and I don’t mean that as a judgement at all…that is simply how I feel…I feel that those kinds of things are degrading to women no matter what the context but that is how I feel for ME and whatever someone else chooses to do and whatever works for them has nothing to do with me…I wish everyone well and for everyone to be able to freely do…say….feel…experience all of the things that feel good to them as long as no one gets hurt….I wish that kind of freedom for everyone….I want to feel free like that and I hope that one day I will….not to use those kinds of words though because they do NOT make me feel anything good not matter what the context but again…that is for me and to each his/ her own….for me I want nothing to do with those kinds of words as they make me feel horrible….degraded and belittled….as less than and I don’t want to feel that way….ever.
    I feel uncomfortable and I feel reservation. Being told that abuse is the woman’s fault no matter what…. that we should not talk so much or ‘make a man reach his boiling point’ thereby ‘making him do things’ triggers me the exact same way that this post does and it makes me feel that in some way FOR ME those kind of words to me would be abusive….I need to go riff on that.

    Tinque…I am so very happy for you..that you are so happy and so fulfilled and ever evolving and that you are no where near where you were when you began this part of your journey. I feel that I am where I imagine that you were when you began and I feel excited that one day hopefully sooner rather than later…that I can be where you are now….feeling so free. Awesome…simply awesome. Congratulations on your journey and I wish you nothing but all good things in life and in love. You are an inspiration.

    ….going to riff in my journal…..
    love to all….
    Cassandra



  51.  #51tinque on March 24, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Hi Cassandra,
    Thank you for your kind, supportive words to me. I’m sorry you were triggered, but ultimately it’s a good thing. I wrote something about words and their fluid meanings. Maybe this will help.
    http://tinque.blogspot.com/2009/03/words.html
    hugs,
    tinque



  52.  #52Cassandra on March 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    HI Tinque…..thanks for your note and the link! I can’t wait to check it out. I am not the least bit sorry that I was triggered. I agree with you that when we are triggered it just means that there is something to that that needs some sort of attention or needs to be addressed, worked out and dealth with or perhaps even loved. I think it was a good thing. Thanks again for your note.
    love….
    Cassandra



  53.  #53Uschi on October 29, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Daria,
    smile for the sunny days that are, don’t cry for what has passed, cause it will always be with you.

    A lose translation of a German Poem.