Sinking And Fixing – How Can They Work Together?

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I am in migraine hell.

Migraine means different things to different people and for me it’s a major test of my warring factions — the parts of me that know I need to sink into and not resist whatever’s going on, and the part that wants to fix it.

So let’s talk about “fixing.”

Is there a big difference between fixing a headache, a bad back, chronic illness, a bad attitude, and fixing a relationship?

Well here’s the thing — tweaking, or tinkering, I take care of with my tools. Yes – using tools is a “doing” thing.

The tools are essentially things for your boy to do to keep your boy energy busy and working, so that your girl can relax, do nothing, and just feel. Can sink into feeling. Now these seem like such opposing impulses.

They seem like such opposing forces.

But they’re not. At least not to me.

There is a big difference for me between “fixing” something that has to do with me, with my system, and trying to fix something that involves someone else.

But here’s where they slop over: Let’s say I want to fix my relationship at work or in my love life. And my thought is that the major problem here is communication. We seem to always be misunderstanding each other, we seem to always be attacking each other, we seem to always feel defensive around each other and nearly every conversation we have.

No one feels safe, no one feels honored, and feels appreciated, no one feels accepted, no one feels… safe and loved.

First – I start with forgiveness for everything I’ve ever done and doing or want to do no matter how much I don’t like it.

Then I go to forgiveness for everyone else for everything they’ve ever done no matter how much I don’t like it.

Then I go to compassion for myself for keeping all kinds of punishment on myself and judging everything I’ve ever done or thought or wanted to do.

And now I go to compassion for everyone else for everything they’ve ever done to themselves, all the punishment they’ve piled on themselves, all the punishment they’ve piled on anyone else – no matter how much I don’t like it.

Then I go to accepting everything about myself. Everything I’ve ever done, everything I’m doing, everything I’m thinking and everything I’ve ever wanted to do my whole life no matter how much I don’t like it.

And then I go to accepting everyone else for everything they’ve ever done or are doing or want to do are about to do, think or feel – no matter how much I don’t like it.

I make a decision to love everything no matter how much I don’t like it.

I make a decision to hand off all my doing to my boy energy, and then make a decision to allow my girl energy to feel, express and experience everything that shows up — fully — even if I don’t like it.

And I make this decision every single waking moment of my life

So Now The Tweaking And The Fixing Belongs To My Boy.

So what do you do?

We’ll first of all your boy has to be firmly trained to go with forgiveness, compassion, acceptance, and love — and stay completely away from judgment about anything that’s going on with your girl.

You can see where I’m going here.

Your boy has to think about and treat your girl the way a real man out in the real world has to treat you.

So you are setting the model for what it’s supposed to look like out there. You create a relationship between your boy and girl inside you and then you know exactly what it’s supposed to feel like when you experience it in a relationship out there.

Sounds like fun so far? Almost sounds easy!

And actually — it is easy. It really, really is.

When you find yourself in a relationship where your girl is feeling bad – and by bad I mean itchy, defensive, tense, caught up in drama, feeling unheard and unloved — you’re in the wrong place.

And this is where you need your boy.

To get you out of there.

To stop texting, to stop the calling, to stop the playing at being “friends,” stop your brain from even taking up space thinking about him.

You need your boy to change the focus. To change HIS focus.

Your boy he needs to change his focus from the man out there to the man inside you.

Your boy needs to change his focus from giving a rat’s ass about what that man out there is doing, and instead — your inner boy needs to take care of you.

He needs to get you out of there. He needs to take good care of you.

What Does This Look Like?

Okay so this could look like a massage, manicure, circular dating, doing things you love, volunteering, writing, singing, dancing, there’s really no end to what your girl can express when your boy gets behind you.

And — and this brings us back to the theme of this post — is your boy needs to tweak. He needs to tinker. He needs to fix.

For me my boy needs to find for me what the trigger is to my migraine. Is it my hormones from some herbs I’m taking? Is it my neck muscles from sitting at my computer writing all day?

And in my boy needs to get into action — scheduling a massage or treatment from a chiropractor. Working on my neck round the clock. Switching around my herbs. Eating in a way that helps me eliminate the cause. My boy goes into detective mode. My boy goes into investigator mode. My boy is my Indiana Jones.

My boy is a fearless leader about discovering how to help my girl have a softer life.

And at the same time, as frustrating as it feels, my girl has to sink into what is.

More in Part 2…

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Ayo Fashola on May 26, 2011 at 7:06 am

    OMG! I’m in migraine hell too. I’ve had them since i was 11 and i get them every month during my cycle. I tried taking magnesium for a month and it worked. I just have an issue of taking it every day because i have to take calcium separately as well. I feel sad and my head hurts and i feel immobilized but i’m working anyway. Thanks Rori for being you!

  2.  #2Ayo Fashola on May 26, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Hi Rori, i forgive me as i didn’t introduce myself to your community. I’ve been reading your blog, newsletters, and fb post for quite a while and i love your approach. I just bought the ebook and i’m looking forward to reading it in depth once i can get over this migraine :-(. I was just reflecting on your recent post and it hit me that my boy energy is afraid that it won’t take care of my girl energy. My boy energy wants to so much give that responsibility over to someone else. I feel i may project this sometimes, this fear of being scared that my boy energy can’t and won’t deliever. Do you feel i may subconsciously project this onto the men i meet? If i feel my boy energy can’t and won’t take care of me, can i really trust anyone else to do it?

  3.  #3Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 8:30 am

    What a profound concept. The way I understand it is turning the focus on myself I engage myself as if in a relationship with someone else where one part of me is taking care of the other part. Wow. I am amazed because now I have to look at the things I perceive as “daddy” jobs or things men do to see if I am needy in those areas.

  4.  #4Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Wow! I feel the need to let this sink in for a bit.

    I want to connect with my inner boy energy.

    Migraines…I used to get them and haven’t for a while. For me, the answer was cutting out coffee and getting super hydrated.

    I hope you feel better soon Rori!

  5.  #5Turtle Girl on May 26, 2011 at 9:31 am

    For some, feverfew can work great for migraines.


  6.  #6Boomer on May 26, 2011 at 10:00 am

    I’m so thrilled to learn that I don’t need to shelve my masculine tendencies–that’s been the hardest part for me of accepting Rori’s approach.

    I can allow my inner boy to serve and protect my inner girl. And for those among us who tend to feel “selfish” when we focus on ourselves and not others, this perspective allows us to say, “Oh, I’m not being self-indulgent. It’s that BOY who’s putting all the focus on me!”


    And I love the part about a healthy inner boy/girl dynamic being a microcosm of the ideal interaction with men in the real world. If you do the inner work right, then you’ll know immediately when interactions with men don’t feel right.


  7.  #7Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Boomer I just love love love the way you express yourself.

  8.  #8Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 10:11 am

    LG, I wrote to you on the other thread

  9.  #9Boomer on May 26, 2011 at 10:19 am

    OK, I feel so psyched today! I have dedicated 2011 as the “Year of Me.”

    I came into a little extra money in March, and although I saved a lot of it and put a chunk away for my daughter’s first year of college, I committed to using a significant portion to developing myself and finally doing things I have talked about doing for years–but for which I did not feel I had the time or money. Now that my kids are getting older too, I have a little more free time and feel a lot less guilt about focusing on myself. Here are some of the tangible decisions and successes I want to share with you:

    – I joined Weight Watchers at work. I lost another 1.4 pounds this week. It’s not a huge loss altogether (about 3 pounds in a month), but I believe that in being slow weight loss, it will be lasting weight loss.

    – I have hired a personal trainer that my bodybuilding friend Richie recommended. I committed to three visits a week to start. He is expensive, but well worth it. He gets results I am told. My older daughter is living with my younger kids and me this summer, and she is going to babysit for us three days a week. I will use those early mornings before work to train with my trainer. My goal is to be a machine by my 44th birthday at the end of summer.

    – My Italian Rosetta Stone courses just arrived. My daughter and I will start learning together this summer. My goal is to be conversant and capable of going to Italy in the next two years and be able to communicate reasonably.

    – I bought the KitchenAid stand mixer I have been coveting for 15 years, but for which I could never find the money or agree to purchase as a special gift to myself. I have not made anything with it, but it feels good just knowing it’s there and that I finally fulfilled a minor dream for myself.

    – I bought some lovely clothes–not a lot, as I am still losing weight–but I got some sexy dresses and some hot shoes to celebrate dropping almost three sizes in the last year. I need some pants now!

    I have not really allowed myself to focus on ME since about 1999. I feel sort of sad that it took an influx of cash to make me feel like I could be a bit self-indulgent, but money is an important aspect of modern life, I have to acknowledge. I probably should have made a down payment on a new car with some of this cash (my Mommy Van does not have many years left in it), but these are all things/experiences I have wanted for myself for a long time.

    I am happy for me ๐Ÿ™‚ and I attribute Rori’s work and this site for some of the positive self-love I am feeling these days.

  10.  #10Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Elizabeth I read it and I am wondering if “no strings attached” could have been meant as it relates to him? I am wondering if it was his way of trying to help you feel safe with him in letting you know that you don’t have to worry he will be putting any pressure on you for anything? Or sex?

  11.  #11Boomer on May 26, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Thank you, FW. That feels so awesome to hear from you. You have my utmost respect and admiration on here ๐Ÿ™‚

  12.  #12Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Great article, great concept!

    “Your boy has to think about and treat your girl the way a real man out in the real world has to treat you.

    So you are setting the model for what itโ€™s supposed to look like out there. You create a relationship between your boy and girl inside you and then you know exactly what itโ€™s supposed to feel like when you experience it in a relationship out there.”

    and Boomer, so well-said,

    “And I love the part about a healthy inner boy/girl dynamic being a microcosm of the ideal interaction with men in the real world. If you do the inner work right, then youโ€™ll know immediately when interactions with men donโ€™t feel right.”

    These are, I believe the most valuable things I take from this post.



  13.  #13Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:30 am

    RE 9 Imagine that and I have always thought you treated yourself so royally from what you have written in the past. I kept saying to myself now there is a model for me to spend some money on myself. I have recently made the decision to move my daughter to a private school closer to home that will save me $6,000 per year beginning this September. Academics are comparable just that the location makes the huge difference in expenses. I am also focussing of cleaning and fixing up my home and keeping it that way as I tend to be messy. I keep telling myself you deserve this. I am also slowly changing my look as in the way I dress which I feel is connected to the way I feel. I tend to wear brighter colors now and pastels and heels where at times I would be dowdy. I have to employ my inner boy more consciously to do some stuff for me. I had a MrHouidini who disappeared come back two days ago. I had deleted his number but pretty much know it. I heard the phone ringing but was down the hall but when I checked it and saw that was him I said wow. He seems to be the type who thinks everyone is below his status. He left a voicemail to call him back which I did about 3 hours later. He did not pick up but I happily left a voicemail. Have heard nothing from him and in the past I would be so happy I would have called him again but today my boy is engageed to keep honoring me and telling me he should be chasing me to the point of me feeling bored to even think of thinking about him.

  14.  #14Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 10:33 am

    10. FW
    I had considered that, but my gut makes me feel he’s after sex. He also said some other things that made me feel controlled, like I will always be your friend, no matter what! I always want you in my life. No matter what! and then…. unless you do this this and this. WTF? get outta my face. White man speak with forked tongue. well anyway, since I can definitely jump to conclusions sometimes, just to be sure, I will ask him,
    “Before I would consider your coming here to visit me, I would feel much more comfortable if you could tell me more about what “no strings attached” as it relates to this visit means for you.”
    How does that sound to you FW?


  15.  #15Mel on May 26, 2011 at 10:35 am

    I found out that my husband’s been keeping some secrets from me. On a number of recent occasions, he’s told me he’s working late, but then was actually out for drinks or dinner with a girl from his work (just the two of them). These times it wasn’t just not telling me about it… but actually being dishonest.

    Now, I realize that he might be lying about it because he knows that I would be very uncomfortable with this, wants to do it anyways, and this is his way to exercise his freedom.

    However, to me this seems more like an emotional affair. I think that if a married man feels the need to be going out consistently with another girl, flirts with her all the time, and lies about it to his wife, that this is not ok.

    On one of the occasions, it was soon after we had a big fight. He didn’t even bother to call me until 7:30, said he had lost track of time doing some work, but was really out with her. It’s funny, because I remember saying “Oh, I thought maybe you went out for drinks after work or something.” and he said “No, just working.”

    I have no proof that it’s more than emotional at this point, but I’m not in a good place right now. If I say anything, I feel like it’s just going to push them closer together. Any disagreement we have is an excuse to “seek refuge” in his easy-going stress-free new friend. If there IS anything more to their relationship, he’d never admit it anyway.

    I feel so stuck. I guess I have to make some decisions for me. How much of this quasi-dating can I accept? Is this the kind of marriage I want? I’m not sure it is.

    I’m in love with the man I married, but lately, it feels like that man is long-gone. I don’t know if he’s coming back. How long can I hold out hoping for his return? I feel like I’m about to crack.

  16.  #16Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Elizabeth it feels like reaching back into the past to correct a mistake, especially if you have to bring it up but have to admit I love LG’s recommendation “I feel uncomfortable too when people assume that a date means we are attached. I feel better keeping my options open until I meet a man who really gives me the tinglesโ€ on the other thread.

  17.  #17Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 10:40 am

    I feel like I have no patience to flesh out good communication especially with those who seem very resistant and don’t listen well.

    I want to slam doors shut.

    I am OK with feeling like I have no patience
    and slamming doors shut.

    I choose to take deep breaths and drink more water today



  18.  #18Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Mel I am sorry to hear that. However you still have to take your focus off him and his behavior. He is obviously not getting something in the marriage that he thinks he needs. Also it seems to be human nature to go after the thing we are told we cannot have. There is an article where a woman wrote to Rori about leaving the marriage to take care of herself and it was after she moved out that her husband seemed to get interested and then ended up regularly having sex because she established from her behavior that there was no need for him in her life. I will try to find it for you.

  19.  #20Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 10:49 am

  20.  #21Mel on May 26, 2011 at 11:02 am


  21.  #22Zena on May 26, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Hello! There was a โ€œthreesomeโ€ request from my man of over 9 years (been together since teenagers). Heโ€™s my first and only sexual experience, first love, and long term relationship! He said it would be a fantasy to have the woman he loves plus another woman pleasing him and hopefully me too. This brought up feelings of jealousy, inadequacy, and then sadness. I replied with he is free to find two other participants when ever he wants. Iโ€™m fairly certain a threesome would not bring us closer as a couple and someone could get hurt. I feel like I donโ€™t want to share my man, or compete with any other woman. I understand that men can have physical attraction and โ€œjust sexโ€. That totally threw me off. What is the best way to deal with this? Thank you for your time and help!

  22.  #23Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    RE 22 “I replied with he is free to find two other participants when ever he wants.” I hope you were committed to walking away if he accepts this. I have experiences of two guys who were told something similar by their wives. When the opportunity arose and the guy was in some disagreement with the woman he did it. In each instance he was surprised that she was hurt and offended thinking that he had her permission to go do it and them come back to her. In both cases the marriage split, one was my own cousin.

    I feel really triggered by this comment “the woman he loves plus another woman pleasing him”. Is it your idea that you should be pleasing a man for the rest of his life? This might be the tactic agreement wrapped in here if you agree to do this.

  23.  #24Daria on May 26, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Amazing article ! Amazing! I feel moved I feel inflated I feel like a hot air ballon is inside me

  24.  #25Daria on May 26, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Elizabeth – instead of asking him, it might be fun and helpful to practice sharing from a feeling state

    I’m feeling concerned about something, and I feel awkward to bring it up, but it’d feel so good to clear this up…. I’m feeling uneasy around the no strings attached comment… I don’t want to have sex/feel pressured for sex and I’m feeling kinda on edge and just jumping off lots of suspicious no-feel-good thoughts about how this will play out. What do u think?

    Or Sonething similar that expresses how you’re feeling a sounds like: scared

  25.  #26Daria on May 26, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Mel – hugs!

    The more you hold on… To the anger and fear… For fear it will push him away… The more it cools and dies on your part.

    I remember Rori has written about this. You want to outgirl her, by being honest vulnerable non blaming self focused, and you want to share feelings and facilitate his anger.

    You can search for those articles and also I would write to Rori.

  26.  #27JennS on May 26, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Taking care of oneself.. the boy/girl dynamic.. interesting post..
    I have been CD..a bit now.. flirting.. felt super strong yesterday and today.. I feel so sad.. How do we CD while still having someone so heavy on our mind? How do we let go of those intimate feelings for someone else when CDating? when no one yet has triggered a yummy sensation?
    I feel defeated today and in a gray area. It does not feel good..
    I wake up everyday hoping that the feeling of loss will dissappear and hoping that I will feel not as hurt.

  27.  #28Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    JennS the feeling of loss is healing, feel them. Just focus your mind on yourself instead of on him to help yourself heal. Look for things that fill you up and make you happy and try to focus on those.

  28.  #29Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    LD: I saw this and thought of you. Please lemme know if it resonates. ๐Ÿ™‚

    She got the man and now wants a fulfilling job

  29.  #30JennS on May 26, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Thank you.. yes, I just did one ofthose conversations with myself out ofthe toolkit book and felt my feeling and started to cry and now feel a bit better.. heading off to work and gonna flirt up a storm! ๐Ÿ™‚ It’s like waves.. they come and go.. and man, when they come.. it can wipe you out. ;(

  30.  #31Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    RE 30 Yes but there is light at the other end of the tunnel. Each relationship, even it’s ending teaches us something.

  31.  #32tinque on May 26, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    I feel really, really concerned Mel….


  32.  #33kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    What should I do? I still havenโ€™t heard from Adam since I left him a vm.

    His fb updates sound very depressed (and some health problems have arose where he may have to be hospitalized) and all his friends are commenting, supporting him. And I suspect itโ€™s also the one year mark since his best friendโ€™s death.

  33.  #34kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    If I reach out, am I overfunctioning?

    If I reach out, will it look like I read his page?

    If I donโ€™t reach out, will I look uncaring and game playing?

    If I do reach out, will I make him feel worse because maybe Iโ€™m part of his stress adding to his health issue?

  34.  #35kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    His ex gf of 3 years left him (totally no contact. just left him) last year while he flew out to his best friend’s funeral to be with his family.

  35.  #36Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    I don’t want to be told how I feel, what I’m thinking or be told what I mean when I say something. I don’t want to be attacked when there are misunderstandings.

    I want to feel heard. I want to feel safe to express my truth.

    I’m feeling drained.. I’m feeling sad, angry and fearful.

    While talking to my female friend/colleague on the phone today she misunderstood my genuine comments as sarcastic and passive aggressive. She then started to attack me. I breathed and gave her my focus. I let hurtful comments pass. I waited my turn. When I spoke I used soft voice and tone and feeling messages. She continued to attack until she was shouting and abusive. I felt myself shaking and could feel tears falling down my cheeks. I told her I felt misunderstood and confused and needed to hang up. I hung up, fell to the floor and cried. I love this friend. We are so close and have always worked together brilliantly and supported each other through everything.

    R came home and asked what was wrong, I shared with him, he held me and I cried some more. After a while the shock subsided and I felt sad when I remembered her being so angry. I felt scared of being misunderstood and attacked again and uncertain how to move on from here. R told me I was stressed and we had both obviously misunderstood each other, told me what the colleague must have been stressed too and everything would be fine once we both calmed down. I felt unheard and shared that. He continued to give me hugs and help me out around the house for the rest of the afternoon before going to work.

    I feel tightness in my shoulders like clamps squeezing on them. When I breath into them and soften them just a little I feel alone. I feel a heaviness in my stomach that feels like I’m sinking.

    I want to cry some more.

  36.  #37tinque on May 26, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Kyla – Men will do this, try to make you feel better when all we want is an ear, a shoulder to cry on, and a hug. He’s being a boy, wanting to fix it for you.

    As for your friend, something triggered her big time. Know that this is HER stuff and really has nothing to do with you.


  37.  #38Meemee on May 26, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Warm Hugs
    Hope you will feel better very soon

  38.  #39Meemee on May 26, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    I am sleepless
    Not able to sleep for the last one week
    Bad dreams when I get some sleep
    Lots of work to do
    Feeling pressrized and tensed
    Cant sleep at all

  39.  #40Queenbee on May 26, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    Lillybelle โ€“ first, I apologize to you for commenting on your integrity and authenticity in any way. I read your posts and thank you. You are absolutely right and I see it clearly now. It is a far stretch for me to comment so heavily on someone I really do not know. Iโ€™m sorry for hurting you. I sincerely apologize and you can count on me to respect your boundary.

    Thank you for your compassion. That feels much better.

    Daria โ€“ thank you for stepping in. I have been feeling unsafe lately and I can see why anything less than compassion for everything and anything, big and small, was bound to trigger me.

    Iโ€™ve been feeling unsafe with my big dream job interview coming up next week. Iโ€™ve been jumping through hoops about it and that doesnโ€™t feel safe at all. Then I feel unsafe emotionally because I feel powerless to be in a relationshipโ€ฆ. then I feel stuck and worry about my future and being alone and everything that could go wrong if this didnโ€™t work out.

    Iโ€™m not going to point to Lilybelleโ€™s post anymore โ€“ because it is just a mirror. No matter how many times I read it, I still see the same thing, while other Sirens seem to get it completely. So, ok, I get the mirror.

    Iโ€™m noticing my need for space, which for me feels like compassion, understanding and acceptance all around. Also, physical space, like a vast meadow where I can expand my arms to the side and breathe! And open my heart and hear no noise โ€“ just the wind.

    Iโ€™ve reached a point where I feel so triggered by what I perceive as non-acceptance of others. Probably something to do with the transition Iโ€™m about to make and fears about it.

    The contrast of inequality, haves/ have-nots, judgments that set people up in dichotomous situations โ€“ and that make society at war โ€“

    When I transition into my new life, I donโ€™t want to forget what it was when I had nothing โ€“ and not treat those who have nothing as less than โ€“ for not โ€˜getting it rightโ€™ like I have โ€“ or in my time, not theirs.

    Thatโ€™s what I felt on the blog yesterday. It was my perception โ€“ a mirror of whatโ€™s going on with me. I donโ€™t want to create/ believe that there is not enough space for everyone on this planet.

    I noticed it today. A poor child escorting a blind older man and they were begging in the street in a posh area. At first, I thought, why are they doing this? In THIS area and then feeling triggered, like โ€“ this is not going to get them anywhere! Whoโ€™s bad idea was this?

    I realized, Iโ€™m doing exactly what Iโ€™m feeling triggered about โ€“ Iโ€™m not giving them space.

    They have as much right to be here as me. It may not look right, serve them, make sense all IMO โ€“ but to them, it makes perfect sense and they need to do it โ€“ THEY HAVE A RIGHT!

    Thatโ€™s the space Iโ€™m talking about. I want to give everybody that. As Rori talks about in her latest post โ€“ LOVE EVERYTHING EVEN IF I DONโ€™T LIKE IT!

    Iโ€™m not suggesting any of this is relevant to Lilybelle โ€“ itโ€™s my mirror.

    Elizabeth โ€“ Thank you for clarifying this below! Iโ€™m happy to respond to Rosa and others who felt uncomfortable. Yes, Elizabeth, what you wrote is correct. I couldnโ€™t have said it better.

    Queenbee wrote:
    โ€œJust because they are FINE other people need to shut up about whatever it is they need to process.โ€

    Rosa responds:
    I wonder if this was meant about sirens processing here on the blog?

    Elizabeth chimes in:
    I am sure that Queenbee will answer for herself, but the way I took it was that she was expressing her feeling of being somewhat dismissed/unaccepted/chastised for needing to publicly process things here that other sirens on here may have no need to process. Not the other way around. She herself was feeling as if being told to shut up.

    Yes, I felt made to โ€˜shut upโ€™ the same way I wanted to make the poor people in the street โ€˜shut upโ€™.

    Thank you again Elizabeth. I feel heard and supported.

    DE โ€“ thank you for sharing more on CDing. Itโ€™s very helpful and much appreciated.

    Lillybelle โ€“ I appreciate all that you are. Thank you for pointing out this boundary to me. Once again, I sincerely apologize for my error.


  40.  #41Leo on May 26, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    Hi Sirens!

    I just need to write this…

    Earlier I was reading some texts for university and looking at the pictures of my man hanging above my bed. Realizing that he went to bed without a text or call.
    And then my wall fell down…. all of it….big time. I just sit here crying. I was remembering all those times 3 years ago. I was looking at many pictures and when there were those of him i really loved, i cried even harder. I couldnt bare looking at them. I think this is telling me big time..that i am not so happy right now. And I am not. I miss being desired and wanted and cherrished.
    Then I went to look at our emails from 3 years ago…right at the beginning (when we were still living 300miles apart).
    He said soo many things… and his attitude…so much different. It was all about me…him cherrishing me… him writing he wanna give me everything in this world… that he doesnt deserve me… that he loves being respected by me and that I am the most incredible woman he has ever met.
    Reading that hurt….but told me something too.
    1) I miss this incredibly.
    2) When did all this change? change…to me feeling I dont deserve him… i have to work to get a call from him… he used to not want anything more that CALL me or even just spend five minutes in the IM with me. He asked if he MAY call later… When did all this change….
    3) I have been (unconsciously) using feelings messages big time. Almost all of the emails are mainly filled with feeling-messages.

    I will keep on reading those emails….and hope it will help me/us.
    I see now that I sabotaged my relationship big time. That he was all I wanted, even more. And that I was everything he could wish for. But now…I dont have this impression anymore.

    I hope I am strong enough to change…
    For I see in those emails why and particularly what he liked so much about me.

    I just have to be me and not think about what he is gonna think…
    I was the most irresistible woman to him ever…
    Want to be that again.

    Hope I can achieve it.
    Open for suggestions and help…

    Thanks for reading. Felt relieving to type it.


  41.  #42Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Hi Tinque
    Thank you. Yes, you are so right.
    Usually when R (or any other man for that matter!) is giving to me by trying to instantly ‘fix’ everything it amuses me and makes me smile even if it was of no real help ๐Ÿ™‚ My feelings of being misunderstood by my friend blocked me from feeling amused by it today.
    I really appreciated the hugs and physical help and let that show. That kind of support feels really good to me ๐Ÿ™‚
    Aw I have sorted things out with my friend now and I feel better. I don’t know where all those tears have come from but they wanted to be let out so I let them flow. I feel sleepy now.

  42.  #43Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Thanks Meemee

    Warm hugs to you too ๐Ÿ™‚

  43.  #44kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:38 pm


    Now I’m crying. The past 2 days I’ve been going crazy trying to track down ppl for Friday (tmrw) for interviews. These girls are flakes, right down to they say yes, but upon responding ‘cool! whats your address?’ they don’t respond. I can only call/text someone so many f$cking times before I look like a stalker.

    My bff texted ‘any updates?’

    Me: Last night, i repeatedly texted ___, ____, and ____.

    Bff: Do it again today. Or did you sleep all day and get nothing done?

    Me: (feeling triggered but trying to keep as calm as TINQUE in a snowstorm) I’ve called, texted, etc today.

    An hour later. Me: Woot! Finally nailed down interviewee confirmed at 1pm tmrw.

    Bff: I’m having a crappy day at work, I’d appreciate it if you actually kept on top of things.

    I don’t even respond to that text. It felt condescending and I don’t want to anger him further.

    Did I handle this right? Is this a case of let it go cuz it’s their stuff/my stuff?

  44.  #45kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I’m crying. I hatemyself.

  45.  #46kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    now one of the interviewees called me saying i’m acting too obsessive about contacting her.

  46.  #47Leo on May 26, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    I’m sorry Kaitlyn…..

    I just stopped a minute ago.
    If I want something, I can handle everything and I will!

    No going to bed…no more crying.

    Hope you get better Kaitlyn!


  47.  #48kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:57 pm


  48.  #49kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    i hope one day when he’s driving my car recklessly because he’s angry at me, we crash and i’m the one who dies.

  49.  #50kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    riff: because i’m too (fill in the blank) to do it myself

  50.  #51Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Kaitlyn: you asked “did I do it right?” and I would say from my perspective, yes you did, but ultimately only you can know based on how you feel.

    It sounds like you feel self- loathing/hatred.

    Is that because you are taking on his anger, judgement, whatever? Is there any way you can not do that? I promise when you stop taking it on, he will change his tune.

    As for the interviewee who said you are being obsessive, I wonder if you could just be authentic with her and say something like “I don’t want to bother you, I just want to get my job done. My partner is waiting for me to line things up. We feel really stoked to interview you. Is there a time that works for you? Do you have any suggestions for how we can make this process smoother?”

    I dunno, I was just brainstorming. It could definitely be refined more.

  51.  #52Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 3:06 pm


    I don’t usually comment because I don’t feel comfortable giving advice but from my own perspective, when I get comments like your bff sent to you (like my friend did today) I let the comments pass right over my head without response. Its their just their thoughts, their opinions. They are throwing their negative feelings out and I just happen to be in that direction. Sometimes the comments stick and I silently thank the person for bringing my attention to it so I can work on it.

    I hope your interviewees come through for you.

  52.  #53kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    When I ignore stuff to let it roll off my shoulders cuz he’s just having a bad day and i happen to be in that direction, he accuses me of being passive aggressive or sticking my head in the sand. i can’t win either way. either way, i’m accused of being lazy or lacking attn to detail.

  53.  #54Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Sometimes I get really self-destructive thoughts like I wish I would die. Sometimes when I am really hurting that seems like the easiest way to stop the pain.

    I can completely relate to those thoughts/feelings.

    I want an easy formula to stop those thoughts.

    The best thing I have found so far is to put my boy energy to good use thinking of something fun or stress-relieving to do. Anything to get my mind off of what is troubling me if only for a short period of time. Then I find that once I take some mental space from whatever was bothering me, I am in a more resourseful state of mind.

    I can see solutions easier. Things starts to line up.

  54.  #55tinque on May 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    kaitlyn – If I may, this guy has some for want of another word, issues. I understand it’s difficult ignoring him when he’s being such a butthead which from where I sit looks like abuse.

    I love this and laughed out loud. It’s adorable but maybe something to keep close when you’re feeling overwhelmed like this. “trying to keep as calm as TINQUE in a snowstorm”

    The self-loathing is not serving you. Do what you an to turn some of this around. Laughing Goddesses suggestion for the interviewee is brilliant.


  55.  #56kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    My bff just said ‘f$ck you and your feelings. at the end of the day, it’s results that speak. i dont see why i have to be nice when you screw up.’

  56.  #57kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    TINQUE and LG,

    Thanks. Oddly, before you two advised, I did communicate that back to her.

  57.  #58Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:20 pm


    ” iโ€™m accused of being lazy or lacking attn to detail.”

    Do you believe that about yourself. Is it possible that he is just mirroring these beliefs back to you?

  58.  #59kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm


    He is referring to the times I left stuff somewhere or didn’t use a piece of equip right.

  59.  #60Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    I wish I knew a better answer too. All I could do today was hang up and do nothing but get on with work and focus on processing my feelings.

    Your bff reminds me of when I worked with my dad. He felt comfortable enough to constantly berate me in an almost identical way yet never spoke to anyone else that way. It was frustrating, humiliating and painful. All I did back then was try to let it pass, walk away for breathing space whenever possible and get on with my work. He did get better with time. It took me a lot of time and patience though not to give up.

  60.  #61kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Just txtd him back:

    ‘regarding the charger left at (insert random girl’s name here), i’ve been calling her for 3 days and she hasnt gotten back to me. since we need it tmrw, what do you think of me buying you another one tmrw morning before we shoot?’

    him: ‘what do i think? i think you’re lazy and irresponsible. i guess i’ll let you kow by 4pm’

    me: thanks. xo


  61.  #62kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm


    My dad did that, too. I let it pass by walking away for breathing space. Walked away into many different men’s cars. Wiped the j1zz off my face and came home for dinner at 5pm.

  62.  #63Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Kaitlyn: Well, what I’m getting at is it’s possible that he wouldn’t get to you so much of you also didn’t think those things about yourself.

    For instance, if I said “You have green hair!”, you’d probably be like “ya dude, whatever.” because you know it isn’t true.

    Same with this guy, if you felt confident about yourself then you might feel confident setting healthy boundaries, trusting the decisions you make for yourself, etc.

  63.  #64Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Not to excuse his behavior in any way. Its not cool at all.

    But it sounds like you want to find a way to work with him.

  64.  #65kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    yes, i want to find a way to work with him. hence why i’m babbling here on blog.

  65.  #66tinque on May 26, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    kaitlyn – It’s okay to add an a**hole or something stronger post text, in your head or even aloud, but then let it go. Keep remembering this man has problems which have nothing to do with you or what you left behind where. You are none of the things he accuses you of. I hope you know this somewhere inside.

    It’s his responsibility too you know.


  66.  #67Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    He reminds me a lot of a boss I used to have too. He would push and push until people stood up for themselves. I suspect he thought he was helping people in some sort of convuluted way.

  67.  #68kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Tinque, thanks. i told him we both scoured the room to make sure we got everything and that it’s no one’s fault because sometimes accidents happen.

    him: no excuses. at the end of the day it’s results that matter.

  68.  #69Kyla on May 26, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    wow his response felt really bed to read.

    i have said in the past to a comment like that ‘ i don’t want to be spoken to that way’, the second time i’d said ‘please don’t talk to me that way’ and the third time i’d just disengage. then i would stay disengaged and get completely focused with work in silence. there was always a point where he needed to speak to me so would act as if nothing had happened.

    i wonder if anyone has suggestions for ways of consistently holding your boundaries and still being able to work effectively with this guy.

  69.  #70Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Good point Tinque. You were both there. Didn’t you say you looked around together to make sure you had everything? Why is it your responsibility now?

    The message that I’m getting out of this is about setting boundaries with my own nv’s. Next time I start calling myself lazy (which I do often) I’m going to observe it and flip it.

    I’m not lazy. I am doing my best. I’m allowed to be imperfect. I am perfect in my imperfection. It’s okay to make mistakes. I’m doing great. I’ve overcome a lot in my life and I keep moving forward. I’m going to see this about myself even if oone else seems to. I believe in me. Etc etc etc

  70.  #71kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:48 pm


    Because my role in this is to be the assistant. Thats what an assistant is responsible for. Though we’re partners, I’m like the assistant because he’s the one doing most of the technical work. My technical end is very minimal, so most of my work is scheluing, scouting, running the mics and 2nd cam, and making sure stuff isnt left behind.

  71.  #72Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Geez I almost feel bad for this guy because he seems to be wound really tight. He’s not always like this is he? If he was, I’d say run!

    I’m figuring he must have another side to him of he is your bff.

  72.  #73kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    LG, he used to get like this sometimes. just sometimes. the past year, it’s been a lot. the past year i feel like i’m walking on eggshells. but when we do have good times, they’re epic.

  73.  #74Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Is there any way to connect with his friendly side?

  74.  #75kaitlyn on May 26, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    yeah, we like going out to eat and working out, etc.

  75.  #76Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    It reminds me of what Dr. Paul says about how if we have holes in our boundaries that’s where people can get through to hurt us. And really the only way to stop it is to heal those holes ourselves.

    That can take many different forms I suppose.

    Maybe saying

    “Look I know I’ve made mistakes in the past and maybe I was more focused on my own pain than being present with work yet I’m trying. I’m trying to stop beat myself up all the time. I’m trying to do better and your criticism is really bringing getting to me. What can we do so that we both feel good and move forward and enjoy working together?”

  76.  #77Daria on May 26, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Masc voice: Feeling messages and the way Rori teaches them as a concept is an invention of Rori’s, according to Rori.

    I feel resentful and closed off and jealous and pouty.

    Breathing into that.

    I feel protective of ‘unseen readers’ and compelled to share my information – that I read Rori writing about how feeling messages in the way she uses them is something she created independently –

  77.  #78Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    What if you were tough with him and said “look buddy, back the F off. I’m trying to stop beating myself up and this isn’t helping?”

  78.  #79Daria on May 26, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    It reminds me of my dad too. Energy shifts have been powerful for me.

    And will be

    Not going for defense reaction .


    What am I feeling.

    Speak that. Thats for ME to break my pattern, not for him to behave different.


  79.  #80Daria on May 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I would say:

    ‘This feels bad and I don’t want to deal with this.’

    Expect shifts to happen not in the moment, but later.

    ‘oh, I feel so sad and small… And I can’t take this. I want to hear you when you’re angry but I feel awful and shut down and can’t right now. I gotta take care of myself and take some space for me.’

  80.  #81Daria on May 26, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Bff: Do it again today. Or did you sleep all day and get nothing done?

    Me doing the feeling and Authenticity. You do Not have to answer directly.

    : ohhh…, pause… Wow… I feel all tightened up. Silence

    He either feels the energy and meets you there – and it is not a HEAD thing so don’t think a man can’t. This communication is on a heart level and can bring out a diff

    Or he says something that feels bad again like ‘wtf I didn’t ask that’

    Then I repeat, checking for how you feel (don’t worry if it sounds totally out of ordinary to say stuff like that when asked a direct q)

    If it feels unbearable, I say so and leave convo.

    Cannot lose with this Daria. you can do it.

  81.  #82Daria on May 26, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Leo – wow I feel moved by this post and touched in a special way. It read like a masterful short story

    I am rooting for you.

  82.  #83Senior Lady Vibe on May 26, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I’m thankful for being alive and well today but not happy about today learning the following…

    “The upshot of this verdict is that drunk women are unrapeable in New York City.”

    Yes, I am bothered by this horrendous attack on a defenseless woman by two strong and armed men sworn to serve and protect.

    Their heinous acts were perpetrated under cover of their authority. This event illustrates one reason
    I cringe when I find people joyfully clinging to biased thoughts about people.

    The ideas, the words… they lead to harmful actions.


  83.  #84Tmizz on May 26, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    I don’t know whether it is spring fever, or it’s “apple season” (a la Carol Allen), but dang – men coming out of the woodwork. Out of the woodwork, I tell you.

    And I like it! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  84.  #85Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 4:43 pm


    OH! How I’ve been missing you!


  85.  #86Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 4:47 pm



    Thank you for writing that. I really feel good to think that we can count on one another.

    I do support you, whole heartedly and open heartedly.

    If you were here, in person, I would hug you hard.


  86.  #87Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    kaitlyn I believe sometimes we have to say “stop, I don’t want to be spoken to like that”.

    Also I remember you saying he uses your car. So girl you are more than his assistant.

  87.  #88Femininewoman on May 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    kaitlyn I would never ask him the question “what do you think of me” or anything similar where he gets a chance to tell me how he feels about me. That question might have unconsciously invited that because I believe that was where the question ended for him, he doesn’t seem to have the rest of your question. Only how you feel about yourself is important. Additionally if he doesn’t feel good about himself I can’t imagine that he could say something good about you. His nv’s to himself must be really awful.

  88.  #89Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Had a very interesting interaction a man that I have known for many years at work. Keep in mind, that we are very close friends.

    He was complimenting me on my attire (whole picture looks such as “WOW, you look amazing today and that top looks great on you” and it continued on for a bit)and today, it felt a bit more “over the top” than normal. So I said, “I am feeling uncomfortable and do not want to feel like I am an object.”

    He immediately responded with.. “I’m sorry that my comments have you feeling like an object. What can I do to be sure that you feel appreciated instead?

    I responded with I don’t know, what do you think? (at that point, I didn’t know and also wanted to see if he could fix it. I was totally in practicing/testing mode here.)

    He responded “I can be sure to show you how much you are appreciated and valued by toning down the comments. I want you to feel safe at all times with me. I don’t ever want you to feel unappreciated for who you are and the value you add here.

    Me: That feels much better. Thank you.

    I really thought this was good stuff today.


  89.  #90Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Kaitlyns cute dresses and Boomers additions to her wardrobe have me thinking…

    I love the look of the maxi dresses but don’t really think a barely 5.4 girl can pull them off.

    Fashionistas? What do you think?

  90.  #91DE on May 26, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Rori, I feel tearful right now…This post comes from your heart…it is full of inspiration…acceptance, validation, and how to tools…thank you, thank you…

    I really love you Rori ๐Ÿ™‚

    Sending you warm, yet strong energy to clear u migraine!!!

  91.  #92Daria on May 26, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Lillybelle – im 5’4 and I feel fabulous in maxi dresses!

    especially with heels!

  92.  #93Daria on May 26, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Senior Lady Vibe is back!!! wow!!!

    feeling excited!

  93.  #94DE on May 26, 2011 at 5:54 pm


    Wow…I feel soooo happy to hear u voice again and that u are well ๐Ÿ™‚

    A big warm hug ๐Ÿ™‚

  94.  #95DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:00 pm


    I am also 5’4…and I feel very sensual and sireny in MAXY Dresses…with or without hills ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Warm hugs,

  95.  #96DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:04 pm


    I felt inspired by the fluid/sensual fashion style of dresses at the Gothic clubs a few years back…

    warm hugs,

  96.  #97Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    That’s all I need, Daria and DE. I’m going shopping this weekend!!! I love dresses and own far too few of them these days.

    When I was looking at them online, I thought they looked very feminine and imagined I would feel delicious wearing them.

    I also was peeking at J Crew and found my idea of the perfect dress for me. It is quite dressy, even formal but oh, so perfect. Long, chiffon, strapless, beautiful flowing dress in a multitude of colors. Fell in love.

    When I get married again, I will wear that dress. ๐Ÿ™‚


  97.  #98DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:10 pm


    Yes, yes, yes…I recently bought one from Nordstrom….:) sometime they have awesome bargains…got an amazing one for $45…and some skinny white jeans for about the same price (originally $180)…

    what i love about Nordstrom, u can always return anything (okay, it has to look new)…even if u wore it once and figure it out it’s not really u,…never asked one single question ๐Ÿ™‚

    Have fun ๐Ÿ™‚

    Awesome customer service!!!!

  98.  #99Laughing Goddess on May 26, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    (((SLV))) missed you!

  99.  #100Daria on May 26, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    DE – from what I know from when a friend worked there – if its still the same – it DOES NOT have to look new

    her mom returned 10 year old jeans that were worn

    and worn shoes beat up with scuffs can be returned

    they are to ask no questions like you said.

    that was the policy she told me when she worked there…

  100.  #101Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    I told a story to my customer service folks about Nordstrom’s. They are infamous for providing exceptional customer service as you Sirens are aware.

    The story is that a guest returned a single tire to them for refund. The CS person happily refunded the guest their money and sent them on their way.

    Nordstroms doesn’t sell tires.

    It doesn’t get better than that.

  101.  #102Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    One more about the Maxi’s..

    Did either of you have to have them altered in length?

  102.  #103DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm


    Yes, u are right actually…i just noticed i felt a bit afraid to say it…just in case is no longer their policy…i know my stuff look like new even after several wears…

    My ex mother in law (Swedish) she was a part of the new concept of Nordstrom created in Seattle back in the 70s…she was also a model for them ๐Ÿ™‚ Many Swedish women I met are just…Gorgeous!!! My ex mother in law is over 70…and she looks like in her 50s…lol…even my son expressed that to me recently ๐Ÿ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  103.  #104DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:29 pm


    No, if u use at least 2 inch heels…i love high wedge hills ๐Ÿ™‚ they give me great stability and support ๐Ÿ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  104.  #105DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    and she never had one darn thing done to her face or body ๐Ÿ™‚ Amazing ๐Ÿ™‚

  105.  #106Lilybelle on May 26, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Thank you, DE. ๐Ÿ™‚


  106.  #107DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Today, I read a few comments that triggered me…I sensed a sarcastic tone…passive aggressive statements… logical thoughts used to explain “feelings”…and…just as I was seeking within me an answer to my own repulsive reaction…I received this confirmation from the Universe…and I really mean it…:(

    “Spiritual life is about surrender, not understanding. Whenever that part of you that wants to figure it out, or know whym, or know what for kicks in, kick it out…” ~ Swami Chetanananda

  107.  #108DE on May 26, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    and I really bursed into tears…:( The Universe does hear our surrender…Manifestation does exist…

    Logic explanation of our inner world…might give us an understanding, validation…but it would never, never…heal us…and I Believe!!!!

  108.  #109Dove on May 26, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Leo: your post resonated with me.. I met a wonderful guy who cherished me an treated me like a goddess for 2 years. He lives 90 mins away but that was never a problem. It once took him 5 hours to get to see me in icy roads and never complained. But then in the third year all that changed..he gradually made less and less effort.
    Rory made me see that I was in an imaginary relationship. I felt so unloved, but I stayed there longer than I should because I was living on memories. So i ended it- and he did not protest. Maybe one day he will wake up and miss me. Until that happens-and it may never-I am much better to be out and open to new relationships even though it can be a very lonely place and those great memories play on your mind. He will not respect you for accepting less than you deserve. If he really loves you, he will work to win you back. And if he doesn’t love you.. Well you know the answer to that!

  109.  #110Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    from previous thread 595 Loneplum

    Thank you very much, that is very good advice,
    nice cool, no assumptions about anything, just staying on my bridge, keeping off his.
    One thing, I have already met this man before. We had an affair two years ago. He is from my past, a childhood sweetheart. I do believe we would rip each other;s head off if we tried to become a couple ๐Ÿ˜‰


  110.  #111Elizabeth on May 26, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    25 Daria

    Thank you, Daria
    I’m kinda leaning towards not bringing up the no strings attached comment again. On the other hand, since I’m not seeing him as a potential partner,
    it might be a good opportunity to practice communicating my uncomfortable feelings around this. He was pretty aggressive last time, and I want to avoid confrontation.


  111.  #112Turquoise3 on May 26, 2011 at 9:22 pm


    Take some cash out of the bank. Be prepared for what may happen now, and take care of YOU. I understand your fear of pushing them closer together, but by not taking swift action of some sort, they most likely will get closer.

    Most men don’t wnat to get divorced. If you show him you are serious about this not being ok, and that something must change, it may wake him up. I wouldn’t leave your home, unless you are prepared to not go back, but I’d get my financial records in order at least. He could empty your accounts and there would be nothing you could do to get that money back without legal action, and that could be a long, drawn out experience. Start saving up some cash at least. When my ex said he wasn’t sure about our marriage, I went to see a lawyer, and he knew it. He hated it… was extremely nervous. At that point, a lot of what he said was to scare me, not because he really wanted to end our marriage. When I stood up for myself, he noticed. Be strong, you can’t control him or his choices, but you can focus on you and what you need to feel safe.

    You have every right to be hurt and angry over this. Be authentic and honest with yourself.

  112.  #113Turquoise3 on May 26, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    I had another date with Mike2 (breakfast guy who is laid off and living with his parents), It was better tonight. He’s very attentive, calls and texts often and I like that. He says nice things like how much he’s looking forward to seeing me again and good morning sweetie! I’m open and receptive and practicing. He starts school next month and is looking for a job outside his field. That feels good, like he wants to make his life better, and is taking the actions needed to move forward.

    Our date: He picked me up and we stopped at the famous bakery in my town to get some dessert, then went and had dinner and then he came over and we watched tv for about an hour and a half. It was nice. We cuddled on the couch. He’s very affectionate, but not in a creepy way. He put his arm around me, kissed my hair and hugged me. I let him kiss me and it was very very nice. Not pushy or overwhelming, just sweet and soft. I enjoyed it. It’s nice having someone to snuggle with, who I do think is attractive and would like to get to know better. Taking it slow.

    Friend MIke and I are talking a lot, it’s so nice to get his perspective on things, and to share mine as well. I’m looking forward to seeing how this friendship might grow, another experiment.

    The girls are with their dad, and he and I did well co-parenting today. he called me about something that happened while they were with his family, we discussed it, both talked to the girls and agreed upon consequences and a mild punishment. I’m happy with the growth in this area for us. It’s a relief.

    I’ll be working tomorrow, but looking forward to the long weekend. Heading to bed now. ๐Ÿ™‚ I don’t have any big plans for the weekend, but know it will fill up with fun things.

    Sleep well everyone!

  113.  #114Leo on May 26, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Daria, thanks! I hope I will master this story and turn it, myself around!

    @109 Dove

    Hi Dove,
    i am sorry to read how your relationship ended. And hope you will find someone soon!
    The thing is… I am sure he truely loves me. He does too show me that in different ways now than he used. But its still there.
    And I know now how much I have changed and what has changed. I mean…I did not give him a chance at all to cherrish me, or work hard to get me. I always leaned forward soooo much. I now this now. And I want to work on those feeling messages again more and more. Although I still have trouble with the “bad” ones… I obviously dont pick the right choice of words for his reactions usually are defensive and not helping at all.
    But I need to be more insistent.
    Its hard for me to transfer those English feeling messages into German. There are things that cant be expressed so nicely… which makes it incredibly hard.
    We’ll see….
    No I am looking forward to our weekend together. Right now….I feel a big change in my inner self… and i believe a big vibe change too. I know what I want. I have had it. And I can get it back. I will get it back!
    A friend (male) actually gave me great advice…about being more insisting on what I want and dont want. Not give in to easily. I will follow it for i believe it will help.

    Have a nice day/night everyone!


  114.  #115Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 1:36 am


    re: post 89
    I love the way you communicated to your friend at work. His answer was awesome too. I felt a big smile spread across my face while reading that post ๐Ÿ™‚ Really inspiring.

  115.  #116Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 1:49 am


    Your date sounded really good.

    I feel motivated when I read your posts about how you communicate and work with you ex husband. I want to be able to communicate and co-parent with my ex husband too. I feel afraid of getting sucked back into our old patterns. I am doing a lot of internal work on this. Babysteps..

  116.  #117Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 2:51 am

    I feel sleepy this morning.

    I stayed up late talking and cuddling with R when he got home last night. My vibe was feeling so low even after sorting things out with my friend and I felt drained. I love when I’m leaning back and staying in my body how R seems to go into full giving mode. We spent 3 hours talking, he shared really intimate feeling and thoughts with me, we talked about the future, we laughed and he spent a good hour just telling me all the things he loves about me and all the ways I make him feel good. When he took me up to bed I was floating on cloud nine and I felt safe and loved.

    He said I inspire him to love me. He doesn’t feel that I expect or demand anything from him. I respond so warmly to him no matter what he does or how I feel that it fills him with love for me and makes him want to step up and be there for me and fill me with love and happiness.

    He also said he feels accepted by me for exactly who he is and that I’ve completely changed him, by doing nothing but loving him and appreciating who he is now. He wants to change, he wants to grow and he can do that with me because he knows I don’t expect him to. I make him a better version of himself.

    I feel safe to be in full girl energy and I make him feel all man ๐Ÿ™‚

    I feel melty and gooey

  117.  #118kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 3:29 am


    The maxi dress. You asked about them if you’re 5’4″.

    You know who rocks a maxi dress at 5’4″…Kourtney Kardashian. I feel embarrassed to be complimenting a KarTRASHian in ANY way, but google pics to see examples.

  118.  #119kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 3:41 am

    I can’t sleep.

    I’m trying to think positive but I can’t.

    My bff and I interview 2 girls tmrw and all I can think is, “Woo hoo! I get to be degraded and undermined…yay!!!”

  119.  #120Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Hi Kaitlyn,

    I was looking through the archives and there’s a post under attraction ‘no matter what he says – you’re great’ that might be worth looking at. Its about how to deal with/respond to negative comments. Hope you get some sleep and the interviews go well for you.

  120.  #121Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 3:49 am


    I checked her out and I figure if she can rock a maxi dress, I surely can too!

    It was a bit difficult to find some shots of her since she is all over everything with her 2 Million dollar engagement ring. *choke*

    Holy Hell, one would need an assistant to help carry that thing around!


  121.  #122Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 3:52 am

    Hey Kyla,

    That convo I had with the guy at work was one of my best attempts at FM’s and I didn’t even have to say much. No explaining, no nothing..just that simple FM and he totally got it and really stepped up.

    I have to admit, I felt like a big bell went off in my head and I thought, Man, I am really getting the hang of this.

    Smiled all the way home and felt like a Rock Star. Still do. ๐Ÿ™‚


  122.  #123Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 3:54 am


    Meant to say..Hard to find pics of her with Kim all over everything with that rock. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  123.  #124kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 4:12 am


    Thanks, but it’s not gonna help. Do you even know how enraged he’d get? Already tmrw he’s gonna be in a foul mood because we have to make an early trip to the camera store to replace what was left behind at an interviewee’s house last week who is not responding to my texts/calls.

    Today when he got off work, he seemed in a great mood and talked about what a great time he’s having playing guitar. We had some light, fun convo about music. Then I texted him 30 mins later to inform him that another interviewee officially confirmed.

    His response: “awesome! great job, babe. and btw please don’t sleep all day tmrw; we have a big day.”

    Undermining much? WHEN have I ever slept all day on a work day? WHEN have I ever been late? Never.

    Do I live unproductively and sleep in late on my personal days off in my alone time? Absolutely.

    But never around work. Not the docu. Not photo assisting him in the past. Nothing.

    Not sure if I did this right, but I texted back:

    “I’ve had my alarm set for 8am tmrw for the past few hours.”

  124.  #125kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 4:14 am

    Oh, and Adam has been emailing me back as I’ve been only leaning back but shining with appreciation and warmth. Funny how I can’t even enjoy that now BECAUSE I HAVE A FREAKIN ULCER ANXIETY WALKING ON EGGSHELLS SITUATION with my bff.

  125.  #126kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 4:17 am

    I don’t even know what to ask these girls tmrw. And they’re my friends kinda. I

  126.  #127kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 4:20 am

    It doesn’t matter if I love me because at the end of the day, if we have a sh1tty interview or technical problems, IT’S MY A$$ ON THE LINE.

  127.  #128kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 4:24 am

    I’d never kill myself, but if life struck me dead, fine by me.

  128.  #129Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 4:29 am

    I’m glad you were able to laugh with him earlier and I like when he said ‘awesome! great job, babe’.

    I don’t know how I’d respond to the sleeping in comment. If I knew I don’t sleep in on a work day I guess I would dismiss it as not relevant or applicable to me and more that its his worries that he’s talking about..

    So happy to hear Adam is emailing you back too.

  129.  #130Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 5:27 am


    Hoping your move went well and you are settling in to your new digs.


  130.  #131Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 5:38 am

    kaitlyn what is it that he does that you can’t use your own boy energy to do for yourself? Why do you need to walk on eggshells?

  131.  #132kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 5:42 am

    131 I don’t understand the question. sorry.

  132.  #133Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 5:49 am

    You talk earlier about him getting enraged and kicky you ass as if you totally need him to do what he does for this project. In Rori’s article about she says to use your boy energy and I am wondering how that energy could possibly be used on the project so you can show him somehow that you really don’t need him.

  133.  #134Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 5:50 am

    Kyla that post about how your guy opened up to you about how he feels with you was wonderful to read. Congratulations. I hope it only keep getting better from here.

  134.  #135Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 6:25 am

    488: (from previous article)

    Islandgirl, you rock. That worked like a charm!

    Thank you!!


  135.  #136Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 6:38 am

    Just watched “Love Actually” for the umpteenth time .

    I feel so warm and excited by possibility when I watch that movie.

    I was interested to notice many of the Sirens in that film , most in fact , leaned forward and kissed their man first! The men universally looked stunned , then joined in. The take home message was that guys are slow to “get it’ and the gals need to give them a start -up then its onwards-ho to the happy ever after!

    Its only a movie , but I was interested in how typical is this of modern ideas on dating ? I felt very comfortable with the amount of forward leaniness exhibited ..I wonder if I would be so comfortable doing it?

    In real life it seems to me that leaning forward gets guys thinking sex is on the menu. And maybe that FWB is on offer.

    I feel anxious about this . I used to be “hot” and sexy, now i am feeling confused and pale and uninteresting. I have conflict and fear about leaning back but I have become too scared to lean forward.

    I always loved sex and flirting , now I am detoxing from G-Man (its 6 months since I “smelled” him as Dr Pat Allen says ) and I have lost confidence with men. Its not even about the surgical scars , although they are BIG , its about knowing what to do with men.

    I am hoping this conflicted feeling is a sign of progress.I hope that next will come a time of knowing what to do and feeling good about it. I have 2 CD’s seeing me as friends , one has discussed a weekend awy soon.The other is very keen on dates but is not divorced yet and has avoided physically coming on to me. Maybe its their physical reserve thats undermining my confidence.

    I dont know.
    I feel confused. I feel old. I feel dried up and scared.
    I feel like I want to kiss THEM like on Love Actually take a chance on love…uuughh.

  136.  #137kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 6:48 am


    He does most of the technical work involving his cam and all attachments to that cam as well as the computer stuff afterwards like downloading. This is his field and too complicated for me to learn on my own without years of experience.

    And though this docu subject/people are my world (sex ind), the project was his idea.

  137.  #138Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 6:50 am


    This is interesting, Rosa. I haven’t seen the movie but will check it out this weekend. I wrote it down so I wont’ forget!

    I am having a struggle with one of my CD’s who WANTS me to lean forward, initiate phone calls and texts. He tells me he feels flattered when that happens and in the next sentance, tells me he feels stalked by one woman who contacts him.

    I am remaining firm in my lean back status with him and may need to let him off the horse because his behavior feels controlling and I do not want that. You know, “I texted you, why didn’t you text me back” kind of thing. It feels icky at times.

    But sometimes, I feel like reverting to my old self, kissing a man first included, but then I really have to pinch myself and notice how I feel and stop.

    But I really, REALLY want to lean forward sometimes…..


  138.  #139kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 6:52 am

    My point isnt to prove I dont need him. It’s to prove I DO pay attention, I DO care, I DO want to make this film, I DO want to pull my weight and more so.

  139.  #140Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 6:52 am


    I like what you write.
    You are thoughtful.

    I feel interested in your “phone based” relationship (I guess that means imaginary until it becomes real)

    I felt so triggered by the “no strings attached” . Whose attaching them? Whose strings are they? Who is avoiding them?

    Did he mean , no sex was expected? Or did he mean no holds barred and NO RESPONSIBILITY.

    I had G man tell me that one, quote..

    ” I love you -no strings attached”

    . I am so triggered by that phrase. I feel flaming anger that a man takes my love , my attention and care and offers warmth but no guarantees of commitment.I feel so sad to lose the friendship , the care, the attention, the dinners he cooked, the company , the time together ..all of which was ” NO STRINGS ATTACHED”

    I would love to hear what transpires Elizabeth.

  140.  #141kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 6:58 am


    maybe he means he’d like you to lean fwd sometimes. not all the time. most men feel like we’re unyielding when things feel one-sided. they want to feel liked, too, and not just from us recipricating.

  141.  #142Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 6:59 am


    You sound very together.
    It sounds like you have a great perspective.

    This guy hasnt got a snowballs hope in hell of tempting you into a power give away .

    I agree it feels grating when they start b*tching about who should be texting ! He doesnt sound as mature as you deserve.

    I like that you are prepeared to let him go..

  142.  #143Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Lilybelle I have one who does that too. The thing is that you want what you are doing to register in his unconscious mind because it is there that the femininity registers as well as the stalking. CCarter says that sometimes men don’t know what they want until they have it. I guess it is the same thing with the stalking, he knows he does not want it when he has it. Carter also talks about women and contradictions where we want a man who is strong and then when he is and leads we don’t want that. I also just read something about guys egos. Maybe it is a ego boost for them to get the initiating but then after the first moment of boost or flattery it wears off. For me the thing is doing what feels best for me. I would not suggest letting him off, maybe if you lean back far enough yourself he will fall off on his own? I would reframe the thought around the text, maybe he is so attracted in his gut that he can’t help but be demanding because he wants more without even realizing it. Remember though you don’t want to over stuff as he might choke or start throwing up. Also he is only one of how many???

  143.  #144Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:03 am

    RE 139 Kaitlyn that felt like too many DOs though it is a professional relationship. Maybe that isn how you are coming across to him so he is treating you like one of the boys? Remember they are tough and can hang in there even through sheeeeeeet and that’s how they talk to each other

  144.  #145Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:05 am

    When I think of “strings attached” I think of puppetry, sorry.

  145.  #146Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:05 am

    I was just thinking that the guys who WANT us to lean forward have a self esteem issue and it feels like they are an empty vessel , weak even, and trying to get us to fill THEM up with attention, and jostle around their feet with other women vying for their love..urk..

    I am sure we look and feel the same when we are NEEDY , so leaning BACK counteracts this for women.

    When we are needy we grab at passing men.

    When they are needy they manipulate us for attention.

  146.  #147Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:07 am

    Hi FW ,

    Yes, pupettry.


    I will never be manipulated by my strings again.

  147.  #148Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Puppetry even ๐Ÿ™‚

  148.  #149kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:08 am

    144 yep he always reminds me i can’t handle this because i’m either lazy, slow, or whatever. i guess thats how men talk to each other and if i want to do this docu i have to quit feeling bad and belittled. thats why i just keep quiet when he’s talking down to me. but then i get accused of being passive aggressive. but if i explain myself (in a calm rational way even if he’s yelling or punching walls), it enrages him further like, ‘no. you’re lying. if you were paying attention, you wouldnt keep making mistakes. every time i teach you something, you make mistakes.’

  149.  #150kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:10 am

    And I still haven’t slept. work aka the degredation-fest starts in 2 hours.

  150.  #151Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:13 am

    RE 146 Thanks for that perspective Rosa. I can confirm that my gut has told me that the one I deal with who is like that is weak though he constantly say he is tough like a Ford truck. I also sense that he is very afraid of getting hurt again and beats up on himself as being a loser. I believe leaning back helps him to unmask himself and heal. I remember once he came back after almost 6 months like he was desperate to reconnnect, he sounded out of breath on the phone and when we met he stepped up big time. I noticed those things but because he rubberbanded away again I figured I was a bit closed off myself so I am focussing on opening my heart, being warm and inviting to everyone rather than wondering why about him. Think he is a great man though when he really opens up but I am not volunteering to be his therapist.

  151.  #152Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:15 am

    141 Kaitlyn.
    maybe he means heโ€™d like you to lean fwd sometimes. not all the time. most men feel like weโ€™re unyielding when things feel one-sided. they want to feel liked, too, and not just from us recipricating.

    I am sure you are right.
    I am struggling with knowing how to balance that.
    Do you have any practical hints or suggestions?

    It used to be so easy till I gave away my heart one too many times ..that was through leaning forward.

    Now I am so conflicted I feel FROZEN perpendicularly – cant lean ANYWHERE ! I dont know how , when or how often to come on to a guy or even to flirt any more . This feels very sad to me, I used to be a great flirt and I just feel FROZEN.

  152.  #153Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:16 am

    RE 149 Maybe you shouldn’t keep quiet. It seems you need to figure out another way because what you have been doing doesn’t work. How about verbally agreeing with him? Or maybe say something like yes you are right you are always right? Or that’s why you are the master whatever……?

  153.  #154kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Rosa, I don’t know. I’m new at this.

  154.  #155kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:19 am

    153 FW

    Yeah, like smart aleck back talk solves communication problems.

  155.  #156Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:21 am

    For me flirting just means looking at him and smiling.

  156.  #157Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:24 am

    I am thinking too much tonight.

    i am thinking that men sometimes need to “rest” and lean back a little and have the reassurance of our care. That rowing non stop is hard work!

    FW , When he rubberbanded it may not have been only your receptiveness (though no doubt your instincts are right..) but also his step-upiness . I imagine a world where a man hasd to learn to be fully in his man energy just as we have to learn to be in our feminine.

    But , we get to be in man energy at work and when looking after ourselves. Dont they get to be “yin” sometimes and just receive our care or our opinions or nurture us with home cooking or just indulge an emotional “feminine ” moment ?

    It feels unbalanced and upside down if it happens too much though !

  157.  #158Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 7:24 am


    And this is what this feels like to me, Rosa. A “powerplay” type of thing. I don’t like it.

    He has already emailed me this morning asking me why I didn’t text back last night (it was very late when he texted) and asking to “start over”.

    There is something about me that he likes, he has indicated so but hasn’t pinpointed it just yet and he is persistant. Maybe it is my leaned-backness, but not for me to even think about. I’ll just keep noticing how I feel.

    I am prepared to let him go but I think I will practice a bit more with him and see what happens. He feels very alpha-ish/controlling to me and I do not wish to be involved with a man who has a need to control me. Ish.

    We shall see.



  158.  #159kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:27 am

    158 why not just call or text him ‘hey there. just got your message. i went to bed early last night. how’s it going?’

  159.  #160Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:27 am

    RE 155 Not sure if that is your idea of what to say to him or if that was meant for me. However, it might not solve but it sure would get his attention and probably respect that you can stand up for yourself and stand up to him.

    My point here is to look for stuff or doing/saying something different that might be feisty but remain in your feminine energy to throw him off balance in his feelings.

  160.  #161kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:27 am

    160 FW Tried that. Only makes him angrier.

  161.  #162Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:28 am

    RE 159 Or Grrrrrrrr impatient tigerrr

  162.  #163Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:28 am

    What did you say? What was the energy behind the words?

  163.  #164Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 7:30 am

    149: Kaitlyn~

    I hope you can get your arms wrapped around this before you go today. I hope that you will get your voice and tell him that the way he speaks to you is not acceptable and if he can’t speak to you kindly, then not to speak to you at all.

    I really, really hope that you can see that you are worth being spoken to in kind words and in kind tone. No matter who it is. Your BFF maybe going through things of his own, but he sure isn’t showing any respect towards you.

    It is really, really difficult to “teach” the people in our lives to treat us differently when we’ve allowed mis-treatment all of our lives. When I started setting NEW boundaries with my sister, she bucked them big time. Lots of hurtful comments, lots of boundary crossing and I continued to stay firm. She still tries to cross them but I firmly plant my feet in place and she is getting it.

    It HAS to be about you and how you feel. It just HAS to be.

    Hugging you from here and wishing you strength for the day.


  164.  #165Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:30 am


    I am not “qualified” to talk about your work situation.
    I will suggest however that you try this technique.

    Put your energy where you want it to go,
    De-energise the parts that need to wither.

    I would “shine a light” on the good interactions, talk more , smile about them , add ideas etc..ENERGISE..those discussions.

    When he says a negative comment I would de-energise by ignoring, by deflecting and distracting and I would even have some Pattern Interrupts ready. Ie ” Can you smell coffee?” or” What was that?”

  165.  #166kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:31 am

    163 I’ve used:

    “I agree. I want that result, too. Will you help me understand it better?”

  166.  #167Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 7:31 am


    I’m wondering if it would feel better to thank him for his help and advice or maybe thank him for his patience when he is getting angry? Rather then focus on the abusive delivery and stay silent most of the time try to look for any constructive criticism and then thank him for pointing that out and for being patient while you are learning. Something like I feel frustrated when I make a mistake, thank you for showing me again and for your patience?

  167.  #168kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:33 am


    Pattern interruptions…he calls me out when I do them. That’s how I learned that term.

    Good ideas on interviewing the people, though.

  168.  #169Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 7:33 am


    I’m not quite in the right place for that yet. I will reply to his email when I have my feet firmly planted in place.

    The thing is, his email this morning was filled with accusatory tone. I don’t do well with that either. It puts me off and in effect, throws up a wall so until I feel comfortable and on even ground again, I won’t reply.

  169.  #170Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:33 am

    I am wondering if “I respect your expertise and you as a professional and while we are working together I would appreciate if you would respect my feelings by not speaking to me that way” could work.

  170.  #171Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:34 am

    RE 169 How about I feel turned off.

  171.  #172Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 7:38 am

    I suspect there is resentment behind his words and he might be feeling that he is giving more than he wants to. So I kind of like Kyla’s suggestion but Kaitlyn has tried silence. He might feel like that is being a doormat and wants her to stop him from abusing her.

  172.  #173Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:41 am

    The fact he “calls you out” on the pattern interrupt is exactly the point..its interrupted!!!
    At theta point I would say , “Did you hear it?”

    When he blows again , I would do it again” Could be that be right?” or ” was trhat a plane” or whatever.

    THREE TIMES on average until extinction.

    You decide if you want him in your life or not . You decide when to leave . You are playing with him. \

    You explained you have money in a house , money from Paris. you have OPTIONS .

    Dont degrade yourself by accepting his behaviour.

  173.  #174Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:42 am

    FW , use what he is offering to learn.
    Learn your boundaries with this man.
    Then practice stating them.

  174.  #175kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:44 am

    I dont have options. Paris money is half gone from paying off debts. My house money is my retirement fund. And what am I going to put on a resume? 10 years of stripping and shooting naked girls? If this film goes somewhere, we may be asked to do another. This is my only ticket out.

  175.  #176Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 7:49 am

    It may feel closed up Kaitlyn, but you HAVE a retirement fund, you have skills and talents , you have options.

    We all have options.

    I thought cancer was closing my options.

    It has in fact opened them up.

    I just had to stop long enough to see it.

  176.  #177kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:52 am

    I didnt say it was a big fund where I could retire in 10 years. It takes a sh1tload to live these days. Sorry for the depressing stuff.

  177.  #178kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 7:56 am

    I mean depressing the cost of living these days. And it will get higher in the future.

  178.  #179Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 7:59 am

    goodmorning…just trying to catch up with all the posts ๐Ÿ™‚

  179.  #180Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 8:02 am

    Kaitlyn ..I am 11 years older than you and 2 kids to support through college , I have hardly worked for months..the “depressing stuff” is all around if I choose to focus on it. But actually I am choosing to work part time at what i love. I have not sorted it all out by any means.

    I suppose its a decision to “go with the flow” and live with the aim of BEING someone i LIKE to be around. i am kinda stuck with me !

    Retirement funds are irrelevant when you have cancer. They are certainly not worth being abused or disrespected or snivelled over. They are not worth losing your precious heart over. They are not worth one second of pain or despair.

    Thats what i learned.

  180.  #181Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 8:06 am


    Hey Jilly! YAY!!


  181.  #182Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 8:11 am

    RE 180 Rosa is right life has a way of working out. I was planning to move my daughter to a school that will cost me $2,000 in September. For years I have been asking the current school for a better grant. This morning they called saying they are upping the grant offer from $6,500 to $9,000 because they don’t want her to leave. They already have the request from the other school for the transcript. It seems when we take life into our hands things happen, people come to aide us, the Universe responds in some way.

    Kaitlyn you must have left him with the thought that is your only ticket out why he feels so empowered. If you start looking for options you might be surprised what your mind could create.

  182.  #183Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:13 am

    looks like a lot of boundary work is going on…good stuff but it doesn’t feel good to read..I feel protective and want to jump in and “save” and “help”…but it’s not my place…and there is great help already ๐Ÿ™‚ so I will stay in my “girl” and be with these feelings…

    I’ve been learning and noticing when it’s better for me to just sit with all my soupy feelings ๐Ÿ™‚ with hotpilot things are going really really well…so well that I start second guessing…I feel like I would/could be perfectly happy with or without him…and that worries me a little. I find myself wanting a little drama or something or wanting to push him away…I want the passion that I had with pipeliner or the feeling of “I can’t live without you” from M (the guy who brought me here)

    but I don’t really, it’s just a thought pattern…

    what I have now is really healthy and feels good with no anxiety..just thought I’d share…that even though I’m in a really good place I still have a little tendency to want what isn’t “good” for me lol but at least I can “see” it

  183.  #184Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Hey there Lilybelle! ๐Ÿ™‚ I’m here rooting for you!! I like that you are taking your time to get your feet on the ground and doing what’s best for you…that feels really good to read!!

    Hey FW…I was reading earlier and I too have noticed a difference in your posts…they feel so much softer and warmer ๐Ÿ™‚

    Rosa…I love your wisdom and perspective on life

    Kaitlyn ๐Ÿ™‚ I’m here rooting for you too!

  184.  #185Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 8:22 am

    RE 183 I learnt from the Interview this month that the brain centers for pleasure and pain are right next to each other so sometimes we crave the pain and get hooked on it. I know what you are saying here Jilly. I myself remember becoming disconcerted when they was no drama with the guy getting angry and would do things to push his button so I could see and feel that. Now I understand.

  185.  #186Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 8:25 am


    I know you are, Jilly. I feel so happy to see you today!!!

    Are you sure you are totally good with HotPilot?


  186.  #187Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:25 am

    FW…yep lol! I see myself wanting to push some buttons for sure..and it feels soooo relieving to know that it’s just a pattern for me and to know what’s healthy and what’s not

  187.  #188Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Lil…well…we will see…this is the healthiest relationship I’ve ever had…but I have recently been thinking that this isn’t “it” for me but I have a hard time managing a relationship and my job…I’m just noticing things and trying not to go into the drama of it..still practicing all of Rori’s tools…hotpilot and I are still new and I want to go on some trips together and see how that goes…

    the biggest thing is that he is such a “goody two shoes” in the bedroom!!!! It’s been an eye opener cause I’m used to SEDUCERS and I miss that soooo much….other than that…the kissing and making out and talking is ALL there for me

    what does that sound like?

  188.  #189Laughing Goddess on May 27, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Hi Jilly! Great to see you!

  189.  #190Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 8:39 am

    RE 184 Thanks Jilly I have accepted that learning is a slow process so I am being gentle with myself

  190.  #191Laughing Goddess on May 27, 2011 at 8:42 am

    I have a big project I’m working on this weekend so I won’t be around much. I miss you all already!


  191.  #192Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:43 am

    OH YA…I remember thinking yesterday that I wanted to talk about this on the blog..

    So how do I tell hotpilot that I want more when I feel like he is doing the best he can????????

    I feel kind of stuck …expressing that things aren’t great in the bedroom will come off as I’m not happy…and honestly I’m not happy with the sex…it feels like highschool and I’m the experienced one…he doesn’t last long at all even though he tries and he apologizes EVERYTIME and I feel tired of saying its “OK” so I’ve stopped but I feel like it will eventually come between us cause it’s already starting to for me

    there! that’s what’s really bothering me…but then I feel like I can let it go…that eventually it has to get better right???

  192.  #193Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:47 am

    LG…soooo good to see you too! I want to work from home and do my own thing like you do ๐Ÿ™‚

    Actually…I would love to hear how you started doing your own thing and what it is exactly ๐Ÿ™‚

  193.  #194Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 8:49 am

    FW…yay congrats! cause it’s really coming through in your feels beautiful ๐Ÿ™‚

  194.  #195tinque on May 27, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Jilly – Is there anything he does you DO like? Really, really melt into that and TELL him how good it feels when he does………or says……….This encourages him to do more of that.

    When you’re snuggling in bed, tell him you have some fantasies and would he like to hear them. Tell him you feel so turned on when you imagine him doing………to you. And ………………would feel so amazing. And so on. What does he think?

    Ask him if he has any fantasies he wants to share.


  195.  #196Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 8:56 am


    I knew there was something. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I can tell you that my exh was a “short-shooter”, the world famous 2 minute man. I mean no disrespect towards him at all but it is a wonder we got pregnant with #1 Guy at all.

    I have to say that it didn’t get better and I ended up feeling like “why bother” and gave up on sex with him altogether.

    Tinque will have the goods on this subject for ya, Jilly. Just know that I feel you on this.

  196.  #197Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 8:57 am


    Hugs, LG.


  197.  #198Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Jilly/Tinque I am wondering if not sharing the feeling around it is what is keeping Jilly stuck?

  198.  #199Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Loneplum I just realized I am missing you today. Reading your words are usually so comforting and informative.

  199.  #200Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I have been going out with my bf since the past two years and we have committed to each other but with no marriage.

    We had a fight recently where he upset me, as he was not nice to me in bed. He knows that and is going through guilt. For the first time I had the courage to stand up for myself for being wronged. I want to take advantage of this opportunity to turn the relationship around. I feel the need for it and ready for it. How do i tell him in a nice way that i do not want not want a man who isn’t sensitive to me and who doesn’t keep keeps my happiness in mind.
    How i say it so that he he feels insecure and not take me for granted. I want the opportunity to circular date so that he doesn’t take me for granted.

    Thanks for your help!
    Graceful Love

  200.  #201tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Lilybelly – Were you involved with my ex? Talk about a preemie (premature ejaculator). Ick. Talk about totally losing interest in sex altogether, just like you.


  201.  #202Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 9:08 am

    k…I’m kind of riffing here…

    this is what I feel/think is happening…
    I know hotpilot is very attracted to me and is always initiating physical touch and sex..

    I’m used to men making it all about me in the bedroom

    with hotpilot as soon as we get naked it feels like he is so worried about his performance that he kind of checks out so he doesn’t get too turned on too fast or that he doesn’t feel confident about what to do..then I feel turned off and would rather just make out and stop there

    I love it when I feel that my man can’t get enough

    wow…lots of stuff here

    pipeliner texted and said he was looking for jobs in my city…

    I feel like it’s an either or type of thing…great amazing sex or a healthy relationship…

    not that it couldn’t be healthy if pipeliner actually lived in my city…

    hotpilot has the freedom that I do though

    that feels silly to think that I can’t have both; great sex and a great relationship with the SAME man

    the more I write the less I feel for hotpilot ๐Ÿ™

    I was helping teach the chainsaw certification yesterday and there were lots of men there and I CD’d for sure ๐Ÿ™‚ and I love the attention from the men…I feel like there are always options

  202.  #203T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Jilly brings up a good point about sex and it got me thinking. I’m not very experienced because that part of my life in my 20 year marriage was a snooze fest. Does anyone have a good book or resource to recommend for great sex? I have to admit that Poker Player is very good in that area – nothing is ever the same and it is very adventurous (yay me for second chances!). He has definitely taken the lead but I would like to learn some new “tricks” myself.

  203.  #204Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:09 am

    RE 200 I might be wrong but I blieve the way it is written here I would take it that you do not want me in the context of what has transpired.

    First let me suggest that you write what you want to clarify for people reading here.

  204.  #205T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Jilly – this may sound wierd but Poker Player wears socks when we make love. He says he does it for me because apparently it was proven that warm feet helps men to last longer. I think it is true because I have seen the difference with/without socks ๐Ÿ˜‰

  205.  #206T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Also Jilly, my suggestions would be to compare not only the sex but the other qualities between Hot Pilot and your other relationships. Maybe write it out on paper? He sounds like a great guy, one that has really stepped forward and is very into you. I think the sex thing can be worked out together. Perhaps bring you even closer as you guys work it out.

  206.  #207tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:15 am

    T-Girl – The best advice is to explore yourself and see what feels good to you. Tricks are just that, tricks. If you go as the mood inspires you, go with what feels good to you whether you’re loving on him or he you, than you are being genuine, and a woman enjoying herself is the biggest turn on for any guy.


  207.  #208Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Jilly this is a free email from someone who works with Rori and TInque on the other website. Thought you might want to review her stuff before



    I have a quick question for you….is this book
    mainly for a man. I am having problems myself. I
    have never had an orgasm during sex and it is
    frustrating me. Do you have any suggestions, or can
    you point me in a direction where i can get help.
    Is it possible the position of my clit is
    making it harder????

    Any help would be appreciated!!!!

    – L.

    >>>MY REPLY:

    There are many reasons that women can’t have
    orgasms during sex. It’s a very complicated

    The detail I wish I had here is whether you
    are able to have orgasms during oral, manual,
    or masturbation…

    I’m going to assume that you CAN, and that this
    is just an issue of not being able to climax during
    intercourse, otherwise the “position” issue wouldn’t
    be an issue, right?

    I should also point out that the average
    position of a woman’s clitoris makes it very
    difficult to stimulate during intercourse,
    and it is very common for women who are more
    comfortable orgasming through clitoral stimulation
    to have challenges with coming during penetration.

    In other words: You’re not weird.

    So I’m going to assume, for lack of details,
    that this is what you are experiencing.

    There is a sexual position that most couples
    find effective for working around this issue.

    It’s called CAT, which stands for “Coital
    Alignment Technique” and it works like this–

    Have your partner begin on top as in a regular
    “missionary position”, and then, while he is inside
    of you, have him scoot up higher on your body about
    6 inches.

    This will cause the direction of his thrust to
    angle downward if you’re doing it right… but more
    important to the point that we’re interested in, the
    top of his penis will now contact your clitoris.

    From here you should wrap your legs around his
    legs and cross your ankles, and then work your crossed ankles downwards towards his feet.

    Once you are in this position, he can control the
    “in/out” motion with his hips, but YOU control the
    pressure on your clitoris by moving your hips to create a rocking motion that squeezes the body of the clit between him and your pubic bone.

    When you first get into the position you might
    find it a bit awkward, but just mess around with the
    motions for a minute or so until you get that rocking
    thing going… then have him add in his motion to
    sync up with your rhythm.

    Now, not all men have a great sense of rhythm, so
    let him take a minute to get it right…

    When you get these movements synchronized
    just right, you will get all of the clitoral stimulation
    you need and if all goes well, it will send you
    right into orbit!

    If you’re confused at all about the CAT
    position, there is diagram at that
    may be helpful.

    Of course, this is just scratching the surface of
    what is available for you sexually. For an even more
    involving and intimate experience during intercourse
    you can learn how to begin experiencing deep vaginal
    orgasms as well.

    There are simple, step-by-step instructions as
    well as mental, physical, and emotional exercises
    to unlock your sexual potential in Revolutionary
    Sex: For Her.

    And of course, many more tips coming here in the

    For Passion,


  208.  #209Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Thanks Lilybelle and Tinque and FW…well…

    Tinque…I haven’t quite gone that far but I will…I do melt and express what I really really like…I feel a little hesitant because I feel like we are always talking about our sex…so I want to give it a little break and not put the pressure out there..cause he’s already feeling it…I do want to know what his fantasies are though…and I feel myself losing interest because of it..I’ve never had this with a boyfriend that I could see long term with

    yes Lilybelle…you knew something was up huh? ๐Ÿ™‚ I love sex and intimacy too much to settle ๐Ÿ™

  209.  #210tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:23 am

    And my own book is filled with sex tips and ideas.


  210.  #211Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:24 am

    RE 209 Jilly that triggered some memories. One of the guys who was here maybe Rusty, mentioned about guys feeling pressure around performance and pleasing the woman to be point of feeling some level obligation and not being able to perform. I also saw something on television where the man was saying hopefully our relationship is not just about body parts. I am also wondering if this part settles in the future when there are hormonal changes which relationship would survive?

  211.  #212Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 9:28 am

    FW, 13:

    “…but today my boy is engaged to keep honoring me and telling me he should be chasing me to the point of me feeling bored to even think of thinking about him.”

    Go, FW!!!!

    That is such a great approach, and one I am learning to do too. I have found that when I tap on my obsession and direct the energy to thinking about ME instead and how profoundly and deeply I love and respect myself, I have been able to let go of a fixation on any one man.

    FW, I love that you are focusing on pretty colors and feminine touches. It DOES make a difference in how you feel about yourself.

    As for the house, ya know, I do have a housekeeper come once per week, a luxury that has become a necessity with the kids and my travel and my own tendency to be messy. I had a VERY hard time allowing myself this luxury: it felt so “bourgeois!” to me and like I thought I was hot sh%t (like I was some elitist rich woman hiring the local poor woman to do my dirty work). I got over this uncomfortable feeling when she thanked me for not letting her go at the height of the recession like the rest of her clients had. I see the pride she takes in her work, and I admire her for having her own business because that’s what it is: her business and livelihood. I have had my own businesses before, and I can recall clients choosing to save money by eliminating my services from their budgets–and I wanted to say, “Hey, people, this is my LIFE here! I’m not just that extra latte you can eliminate or the internet bill you can reduce!” So I really felt for my housekeeper, had a new appreciation for the legitimacy of her business, and refused to cut back in this area for my sake and hers.

    So, I KNOW cash is sometimes tight, but maybe you can allow yourself housekeeping services once a month or every two weeks–or even just occasionally when guests are coming or you need the sanity restored.

    I know I keep things cleaner now in between the weekly cleanings because I don’t want make needless work my wonderful housekeeper (nor do I want her thinking we’re piggies!).

  212.  #213Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 9:31 am


    I had that problem with an ex and it did get better. Every time I felt that he was ‘not there’ I would stop and smile and ask him to kiss me or touch me for a little while to help ME relax (could be said in feeling messages, I didn’t have that tool then). Then I’d really focus on what we we doing and let myself smile or moan or move with the sensations, like Tinque said to melt. It took a while but he said once he realised he COULD please me then his performance anxiety disappeared on its own.

    R shared with me last night that he had always been a premature ejaculater in the past. We never have that problem and he thinks its because i’m so obviously turned on and responsive to him that he can follow my responses to please me and is never left wondering if I’m doing the grocery list in my head waiting for him to hurry up and finish lol!

  213.  #214Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 9:32 am

    FW..thanks for the article! i would love to be able to put this into action! I need a minute or two ๐Ÿ˜‰ sorry bad joke ๐Ÿ™‚

    and Tinque..I’ll get your book too

    T-girl…socks huh? ๐Ÿ™‚ this may just help…his feel are ALWAYS cold!! lol

    I’ve never had a problem in the bedroom…I’ve always felt so lucky…and I feel confident that I’m an amazing partner…just sayin’ ๐Ÿ˜‰

    this is exactly it…I know sex isn’t everything…and hotpilot is an amazing guy…so it would be crazy to write it off right now and I want to choose the relationship

    isn’t there a saying that when you are having great sex it’s not a big deal but when you aren’t it’s a really big deal?

    somethin like that…

  214.  #215Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:33 am

    RE 212 Thanks Boomer I have actually been thinking about it but have not gotten past the resistance of allowing myself the luxury. I should at least start exploring to see how I feel if I decide to move forward.

  215.  #216tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:34 am

    A great relationship includes great sex (if both want this of course) and great sex remains great. Things may change around it, but it can still be great.


  216.  #217tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:37 am

    I’m sorry, NO socks in the bed!!! Actually this is a running joke between us. Men look SO silly naked but the socks.


  217.  #218Kyla on May 27, 2011 at 9:39 am

    I’d second tinque’s book. I’m working on it at the moment. There’s a lot in it so I’m taking my sweet time and not rushing anything ๐Ÿ™‚

  218.  #219T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 9:39 am

    I agree with Boomer about the housekeeper. That is a luxury I afford myself. She only comes for 4 hours twice a month, but what a lifesaver she is. I just consider her the same category as a utility bill which in my mind helps me to justify her.

  219.  #220T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Tinque – I agree about the socks lol. But I don’t say anything because I thought it was sweet he was thinking of me that way. Sometimes I will pull his socks off.

    Thanks for the link to your book.! Sounds awesome!

  220.  #221tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Housekeeper, one of THE best investments. I HATE cleaning with more than I can say. Tidying up regularly is fine, cleaning the toilet daily and especially before she comes LOL is fine, and I don’t mind doing dishes and the laundry, but the rest NO WAY. I have her come once a month. It’s perfect since it’s only the two of us. I can find $50 a month easily.


  221.  #222Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 9:42 am



    Ick, indeed.

  222.  #223Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 9:42 am

    one more thing…

    k so I do all the melting and moaning and really “being there in the moment” and enjoying all the foreplay so he KNOWS he is pleasing me and turning me on…

    I feel a little vulnerable sharing this but…here goes..

    so I love it when he uses his hands and puts his fingers in me and that gets me soo much closer to an orgasm so that during sex I can have one…and I’ve shared this with him that I love it and it’s one of my favorite things…but he seems to not want to or not for very long

    THIS is what I don’t understand and it makes me feel nervous and closed off but I don’t want him to do it if he doesn’t want to…kind of ruins the whole thing for me…I’ve never been with a man who DOESNT love to do that…and I’m very clean and I’ve always had soo many compliments so I feel very confident about myself in that way…so it makes me feel like there is something wrong with him

  223.  #224Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Cutting and pasting some of what I just got from CCarter. The first sentence here jumped at me and suggests to me that is all I “need” to “do”.

    2) Men expect that if a woman likes them, then the woman should feel good when she’s around him. I know it might sound simple, or even stupid, but if a woman is constantly stressed or worried or unhappy when she’s around a man, not only does he feel like he can’t make her happy, but he’ll want to spend LESS and LESS time around her.

    Here are two ways to communicate with a man that will make him not only FEEL GOOD, but make him want to communicate with you and be around you more:

    1) Figure out how to make it so that men can see and recognize what it is that you are looking for with them, without frustrating or confusing them even more.

    2) Find out why it is that YOU are so chronically unsatisfied. Men want to be around women who make them FEEL GOOD. Telling him that he is constantly doing things WRONG just creates more ANXIETY.

    Men expect women to be a kind of “emotional leader” in relationships. Women often bring a deeper and richer emotional aspect to a man’s life than he has anywhere else.

    Remember, HE’S THE MAN. He’s the one who wants to feel good by winning a woman over and making her feel great.

    And when a man sees that you feel great, then he’ll feel great, too… and EVERYTHING ELSE will almost magically get easier.

  224.  #225Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 9:47 am

    RE 214 I have heard something similar from Katherine Scott

  225.  #226Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 9:50 am


    Girl, you are not alone on that like.


  226.  #227tinque on May 27, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Ask him Jilly. Tell him, “I so love when you…..yet it seems as though you don’t really like it. Is there something you want to tell me?”


  227.  #228Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Thanks Femininewoman,

    Few days ago i was visiting my boyfriend for a day in his city. We had sex and he was a bit harsh, quite harsh even though i told him to stop. He thought i didn’t mean it and thought i was enjoying it. I was in a rage. I said I wanted to leave immediately to go back home and I did.

    I told him that i felt upset when I got back home. He said not to make him feel bad and that he will keep it in mind next time.

    My question is, how do i get him to not take me for granted. What do i say and do at this point so that he is works to get me. We have been together the last two years and meet once a week. He has pretty much never worked to get me. It’s been easy for him.

    I feel I need to tell him to move on with his life but not in a way that will push him away forever. Just so that he feels insecure and is cautious about treating me well and knowing that he can’t take me for granted.

    What words, actions do i say, use.

    I hope you understand what i mean.

    Need help.
    with gratitude
    Graceful Love

  228.  #229Elizabeth on May 27, 2011 at 9:57 am

    140. Rosa

    Hello Rosa, thank you. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Thoughtful….yes, I like to have a good understanding and sense of what I am doing and why, so that I am not just following a recipe hit or miss. I am sorry if that triggers anyone. I am getting a better understanding of the purpose and theory of feeling messages from nonviolent comm program. It is largely about observation without evaluation and stating one’s needs and how they are being met and not being met. When I have a solid basis, I can apply the tools in a more effective way, not having to think about it too much. Maybe you know what I mean.

    I will say more about the other situation, soon, don’t have time now.



  229.  #230Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 9:57 am

    ya Lilybelle… I feel sure that if he seemed to want to do everything that I love in bed and go the extra mile getting me to orgasm because he feels like he wants to then I would feel better about things

    and I’ve asked him if his other girlfriends would orgasm and he said that it’s just harder for girls to orgasm than in my head (WOW)…I don’t think he’s ever made the effort (other than trying to last longer) to make a girl orgasm…this is a red flag for me…but maybe a woman’s never taken the time to help him and make him feel comfortable doing it…I get the impression “our” sex is the best he’s ever had

    ugggg….I feel so turned off right now…

    if I practice the LOA about this…I better start imagining myself with an amazing lover and relationship ๐Ÿ™‚ I was doing that before this morning LOL

  230.  #231Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Tinque #227…k I am going to ask him…

  231.  #232lm on May 27, 2011 at 10:03 am

    this post is FABULOUS. i’ve been working on embracing both the masculine and the feminine and finding a balance…this post is exactly what i needed to read today…

  232.  #233Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Hey Elizabeth! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Welcome Graceful Love ๐Ÿ™‚

  233.  #234Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 10:06 am

    RE 228 That sound like game playing to me though. I have used that same line in the past but when I was in a place where I was comfortable moving on myself because I felt the relationship was not fulfilling my needs. He kept coming closer afer that and stepping up big time after he had gotten over the initial shock.

  234.  #235Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Graceful Love I might be wrong but I sense he uses blame to project his issues. I would try to notice this if I were you and try to find out where I am blaming myself.

  235.  #236Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Thanks Jilly ๐Ÿ™‚

    How do i break up with him in a good way, Femininewoman?

  236.  #237Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Graceful Love… sounds like it would feel better to put the focus back on you and figure out if “he” is what “you” want…if you start getting interested in your life with/without him then you don’t have to worry about trying to get him to do or feel anything cause it’s all about you ๐Ÿ™‚

  237.  #238Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:16 am

    I know you asked FW…but I would like to chime in…I’m sure she’ll come up with something amazing ๐Ÿ™‚

    but maybe don’t worry about “breaking up” just get interested in you and see what happens..start practicing the tools from here…with being open warm vulnerable and authentic…

    I’m still working on these too ๐Ÿ™‚ the vulnerable part…really gets me lol but I love feeling it when I let myself

  238.  #239Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 10:18 am

    RE 236 I would do what Jilly suggested in 237 first. Get busy with your life, take a class, maybe dancing or do something with some girlfriends that will give you some time away from him. When you are not always available there will be less opportunity to be taken for granted. Plus you will be busy living your life happily.

  239.  #240Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:19 am

    I just want to say Thanks! for talking things out with me this morning…I absolutely love that I have this safe place to open up…I love all of you ๐Ÿ™‚ xoxoxo

  240.  #241Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 10:23 am

    I understand. Thanks Femininewoman and Jilly ๐Ÿ™‚

  241.  #242Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Jilly, 183:

    “I feel like I would/could be perfectly happy with or without him.”

    Girl, I think that’s a GOOD thing.

    To me, that says that you’re whole in and of yourself and are liking yourself enough that you are willing to let him enhance what you already have going for you…not that you need him to “complete you.”

    I am working too on accepting the generous and attentive affections of BoyScout (aka IndyMan) despite the fact that he does not make my loins throb just to think about him.

    Do you know who DID make my loins throb???

    – Mr. Ohio (fizzle, disappointment…poof!)

    – Mr. Wonderful (drama, agony…poof!)

    – DangerousDavis (blaming, control…poof!)

    -My second husband (dysfunction, abuse…crash and burn!)

    So….yeah…I will take “I feel like I would/could be perfectly happy with or without him” as a MAJOR improvement any day!

    I am choosing to see it this way:

    BoyScout (compliments, affection, fun outings, safety, understanding…more awesome dates…wow!).

    Neither HotPilot nor BoyScout may end up being THE ONE for us, but we can certainly allow ourselves to enjoy wallowing in the healthier generosity and affection and step-up attention while it lasts. Give it and him time.

    I’m still CDing others. Are you? No one says you have to commit to HotPilot, so I hope you are not. Keep practicing with him. Keep enjoying him. Keep noticing how it feels to be treated wonderfully by a good man, even if you’re not throbbing everywhere for him or even if you “could take him or leave him” sometimes.

    Hope this did not come across as lecture-y! it’s just my writing style when I get excited about something! (Also, I think I am working on convincing myself about BoyScout too!)


  242.  #243Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Boomer…I love it..thank you! ๐Ÿ™‚

    I’m right there with you…the with or without him feels really good…just makes me wonder a little…and I laughed at the list of loin throbbers…I have a list too ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I feel good…and you sound really good too ๐Ÿ™‚ When you first wrote about the BoyScout I totally thought of Hotpilot lol…but I am in agreement..BoyScout (compliments, affection, fun outings, safety, understandingโ€ฆmore awesome datesโ€ฆwow!). This is what I DO have and I reallllly like it!

  243.  #244Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Oh, Jilly, I had not read all your other comments yet when I got on my “enjoy the nice man” soapbox.

    Girrrrrrrrlllll….if the sex is frustrating, I hear ya…I’m not sure how long I could last with an otherwise good man either!

    OK, I DO know how long I could last–14 months–which is exactly how long my last relationship lasted. The sex was always “meh.” He was, like you said, such a “goody two-shoes!” He was sweet and kind and a good friend, but there was no passion and no desire on his part to make me see stars.

    So…yeah…it can be frustrating. At 14 months, I FINALLY brought it up, and the reality was that he was not sexually motivated in general (felt he had low testosterone and has some unresolved Catholic guilt around sex), but furthermore, he just didn’t feel excited about ME. That was hard to hear…yuck…because i KNOW I am the sexual BOMB for most men, but I really wish I had asked, oh…11 months sooner (!) as soon as I realized that we had a major sexual disconnect going on.

    So…hmmm…how to bring this up with HotPilot???

    Wow. I obviously was too afraid to bring it up with my guy way back then, so I may not be the one to shed light on this issue.

    I’l see what the other Sirens have said up the thread and pipe in again if I feel good/agreement about what they say!

    Hugggggs to you though–sexual satisfaction is critical to me, as I think it would be to most sirens.

  244.  #245turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Jilly, I would tell him that you need more in the bedroom. That him not lasting long is not the issue. There are plenty of other things he could do to please you. Watch some porn together, get him a c ring…. push his head back down there if you have to, but you deserve to feel satisfied too. If I wasn’t having orgasms too…. I’d be very disappointed. AND that, won’t help you be happily married if it comes to that. He should want to please you!

  245.  #246Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Turquoise, I love you and your direct and awesomely helpful advice! You just always say exactly what I wish I had said! I can be such a wuss about confrontation of any kind, and you just totally say what needs to be said.

    I love your advice to Jilly and also to Mel earlier about doing some real and practical things about her situation with her husband.

    Brava, girl, brava!!!

  246.  #247texasfemme on May 27, 2011 at 10:59 am

    I have a question… I am always reading about the cirucular dating… however… there are other situations that I have not read anything about…
    I have been dating a man for over 6 months while I was really interested in another man… the other one is very slow with getting back to me however I feel he is interested… the one that I have been spending time with wanted me to move deeper into our relationship and wanted me to relocate… which I said I wasnt ready for… later he started cooling towards me so I asked him if there was someone else and if so we needed to let each other go… he has indicated that he doesnt feel the relationship is going anywhere and that and that was why he was cooling… I told him that I thought we should let each other go… now we are not speaking and I am missing him… however I can feel that the only way he will see me is if I make a large gesture to let him know how much I love him… and there is someone else that is in the background… so this circular dating thing is not as easy as it sounds…I have had many men that I dont want to stay long term with want me to commit… and so I have to leave them… then I am left alone… or with a group of men that I dont care about. uh ;-( what now!??

  247.  #248Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Another question, so if he calls me i should speak to him in feeling words? or should i show him that i am busy, of course considering that i am really getting busy?

  248.  #249Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Graceful Love:

    Using FMs and having a busy life are not mutually exclusive here.

    Yes, if he calls, if he initiates contact of any sort, reply and engage in feeling messages. Being “busy” is never a ploy…if you are busy, then you are busy, but you can communicate this to him in FMs as well:

    “Wow, it feels good to hear from you! I really want to talk to you soon, but I have fifty-seven things to do today. I free up it seems on Sunday. It would feel awesome to connect then. What do you think?”

    This way, you are a) telling the truth (not playing a game), b) making it all about you and your life (not about him and what happened between you last time you saw him), and c) giving him an opportunity to weigh in/express his thoughts/communicate that Sunday will work for him to talk next.

    So, Graceful, what do you think of this??

  249.  #250turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 11:11 am

    THanks Boomer! I know, I can be so outspoken, lol. It’s not always a good thing. BUT, when I can see myself in someone elses situation, I can’t help but put my 2 cents in also.

    Sex with Tom was good…. very good at times, but seemed like a lot of work to keep him aroused. He was good in a lot of other ways, so I was willing to work with that, and I know he wanted to please me… just was more effort required.

    I had eh sex with Dan (my year and a half). He tried, but for being such a large man… wasn’t well endowed at all, and size does matter to me. The thing was though, since the sex wasn’t knocking my socks off… other things I didn’t love about him seemed to surface more.

    But, my loin throbbers weren’t great to me either….

    My exhusband, wow…. we had such great chemistry. We still do, which is why it’s hard to really move on. He’s even commented to me many times over the years that our sex life wasn’t the problem at all… how great it was, etc. Makes me feel good to know that the new girlfriend who is 8 years younger than me… isn’t blowing him away ๐Ÿ™‚

    Darren- ugh, DREAMBOAT- but depressed, not over his ex…. sweetheart though and sex was yummy!

    Huh…. realizing my knocking my socks off list is pretty dang short these last few years. Other guys were fine, nothing memorable. I always orgasm though, always… on top mostly, but also on the bottom. Maybe not the first round if they don’t last long, but I don’t give a lot of down time. lol.

    Damn, now I need some sex.

  250.  #251Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Turquoise. I love you just the way you are: direct, clear, compassionate, and horny ๐Ÿ™‚ Do not apologize for any of it!

    I may have the opportunity this weekend to take BoyScout for a sexual spin. I want to…but I also don’t.

    I feel strangely conflicted about it. And I feel afraid to explore why. Do I not really like him that much? Am I afraid of moving too fast with him and making him not value me (this is the fourth extended date–he lives far enough away that each date, really spans an entire day and includes at least two, sometimes three, separate “events”)? Am I afraid of even putting the effort into it because he does live far away and there’s no real point to this for me other than to learn better to accept the affections of a step-up guy? Am I feeling afraid that he likes me more than I like him, and I don’t want to lead him on?



    …and to quote Prairie Girl just because I miss her and because she’s so cute:

    “Giggle. Burp.”

    What do you think Turquoise, FW, Jilly, and my other lovely Siren-Sisters? Should I go for it (I think he’s very much wanting to)?

  251.  #252Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 11:34 am

    RE 251 Boomer I don’t care what he wants in this department I wonder what you want and what you feel. Reason being when I have in the past done it when he wanted, I ended up feeling crappy, sometimes like someone used me to go to the bathroom.

  252.  #253Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Thanks Boomer, FW, Jilly & The Universe. So much support here. Very much appreciated.

  253.  #254turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Boomer I say go for it… but I am very horny right now so take that with a grain of salt ๐Ÿ™‚

    Seriously, do what feels right. If the sex is great, you may feel further inspired to give the relationship more of a chance.

    You sound different about this one. I think it’s great you are trying something new, despite the distance. I moved 4000 miles to be with my husband. When it’s right, distance won’t keep you apart.

    I love you and your infectious attitude and big heart as well! You give great advice and I love hearing about your escapades. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Mike2 is turning out better than I expected, and if I hadn’t given it a second date, I wouldn’t have realized that. He’s not perfect, I’m not triggered with forever feelings or atwitter with love… but there are a lot of things I like:

    He keeps in touch throughout the day. Always texts me first thing in the morning.

    He’s very honest about him, who he is, what he’s looking for… where he’s headed.

    He has a plan, to make himself more marketable, and is looking for a job, plus signed up to go back to school.

    He understands what my situation is with the girls as a single mom… his mom raised him. He loves his mom.

    Kissing was very nice, despite the facial hair ๐Ÿ™‚ He’s just the right amount of affectionate. Last night we were snuggling on the couch watching tv, and he kept pulling me tighter against him and kissing my hair, breathing me in. I don’t know if anyone has done that before.

    He tells me he can’t wait to see me again. He asks me out, makes the plans, says he just wants me to be comfortable.

    Anyone remember my dream man post? I said I wanted tall, dark hair, green eyes, strong, etc. Mike is 6’3, brown hair, green eyes…. yikes!!!!

    What I don’t like/worries me:

    I am not in a financial position to save/help a man. His first wife was 12 years older than him, he lived with his last girlfriend and her two girls. I wish his finances were more stable right now.

    At first I thought he was negative/complaining a lot… but I realized last night he gives a lot of detail when he talks. Will repeat pretty much a word for word conversation about past breakups, problems, etc. I don’t need that much info.

    So, going to keep CD’ing, keep my dating profiles up, may take and post some new pictures this weekend… will keep flirting with the cop I like when I run into him. I’ll even ask his name next time ๐Ÿ™‚

    Will CD my friends this weekend too. In fact, I need to make plans for tonight! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Thank you sirens. I love having this safe place to come and process my feelings!!!! ๐Ÿ™‚ Hugs!

    I know it’s always good in the beginning, so not getting ahead of myself at all here… but

  254.  #255Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 11:36 am

    RE 247 Do this ” make a large gesture to let him know how much I love him” and I sense you will be put in the “take me for granted” category eventually.

  255.  #256turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 11:40 am

    cont. 254

    but I’m glad to have met someone I do feel a connection with. It’s a relief to me that it’s happening again so soon after Tom. I ended it with him because I wanted more than he was giving. It feels good to be open to new men coming into my life who are giving more already. ๐Ÿ™‚

  256.  #257Jilly on May 27, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Camile thanks! Ya sex is super important to me….and I’ve never had to work at it or keep a man hard..til now..WTH! Probably didn’t help that Hotpilot had Pipeliner to live up too (the best SEX of my entire life) I love your outspokenness too! and Boomer I love you just the way you are too! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Ya Boomer I’m probably not the one to ask..but I say go for it! ๐Ÿ˜‰ Life’s too short not too lol and you seem like you are in such a rock star place ๐Ÿ™‚

  257.  #258Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 11:42 am

    So FW, are you saying you should not make a large gesture ever to your man? Just curious to know..

  258.  #259Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 11:53 am

    RE 258 To my husband yeah.

  259.  #260Femininewoman on May 27, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Or to someone who has given me a lifelong commitment. Not everyone wants marriage.

  260.  #261Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 11:59 am

    As I get advice from you all, I feel very happy. Feel soo happy that I’m connected to my Higher Self. Such an amazing feeling knowing that there is this great power / God/ Infinite / Higher Love within us. That we are supported and cradled by the Universe.

    Suffering and pain lead to meditation, to realization and exploring and understanding this Higher Self.

    We are soo amazingly powerful. I hope you all can find and experience the power that I’m talking about too.

    Hugs xx

  261.  #262turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Thanks Jilly!!! ๐Ÿ™‚ None of us should settle. I was just talking to friendmike yesterday about how nice it would be if we could take parts of different people and put them into one person! ๐Ÿ™‚

  262.  #263Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Graceful Love – our operating position here in Sirenland is that “grand gestures” are for MEN to make and for US to appreciate. When we start making these gewtures–FW is correct–we increase the chances that we are not perceived as a a woman of value worth striving for. Don’t make it easy on him to take you for granted.

    To make this real for you, to me, no grand gestures means:

    – No cooking for a man until he has treated me to MANY nice dinners out and many events (and I was once a chef!). I have yet to cook for a man since finding Rori’s approach. I used to cook on date three at leasta s a way to “hook” a man. No more! They put me in the “mom zone” when I did that, and never took me out to dinner again. I realize this now.

    – No traveling to him unless it’s for a major,
    exciting, or seriously fun event I don’t want to miss out on (a trip he planned, a chance to meet his family and I want to, a cool festival in his town etc.) And even the–he pays for EVERYTHING once I get there. Some sirens here even get their gas paid for.

    – No extravagant or expensive gifts for any reason other than Christmas or his birthday and only if we have discussed what the gift-giving vibe is.

    Heck, girl, I won’t even do the “little gestures” that can make him devalue me:

    – No calling him first–ever! Unless it’s to tell him his house is on fire or something.

    – No initiating text messages. No “Just thinking of you” even when I am.

    -No dates accepted by text messages. I state that it feels better to confirm the details “in human” and that I’d feel better talking before we meet.

    Those are some new realizations I’ve come to since being here/ other sirens may have other/different/more or less stringent approaches.

    But we all seem to agree: MEN make the gestures; Sirens accept and acknowledge them graciously with open, warm, hearts.

  263.  #264Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Wow. I am the typo queen today.


    I just get so darn excited and type too fast!!!!

  264.  #265Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Ha, it deleted my affirmation:

    “I love, and value, and forgive my fat fingers again today!”

  265.  #266turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Graceful Love, I’m newer here… a few months, and I was always such a giver, and over functioner… and it is hard to change.

    I like to help, care for, plan, etc. BUT, I have stopped doing that for men. If I want to do those things, I do them for me, my kids, my family and friends.

    I will accept a text date if we’ve been talking on the phone as well. Sometimes texting is just easier for me with kids and work, so that doesn’t bother me. I do however, give them my number and let them call me. I have called Mike2 first a few times, but just quick on my lunch break and he always texts me first thing in the morning, checks in… it’s nice.

    I’ve learned from my friendmike, that men get tired of all these dating games as well. He told me he LOVES to hear from a girl first online because it happens so rarely. He also said he appreciates when a date offers to pay for something small like coffee or to get the tip, or even go dutch. He doesn’t have a lot of money, and to him the date is about spending time together. I have no idea how these relationships work out for him though. He’s 36 and single. He’s cute… but definitely the smart, nice and funny guy.

    I try to do things the Rori way as much as possible because it sure hasn’t been working my way. I try too hard, and it backfires.

    I’m curious to see how this will go when I meet someone I really like, or it starts to get serious. Good luck to you!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  266.  #267Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    This is on being “a high-degree-of-difficulty woman.” When is it a problem?? At what point is it dangerous and attracting the wrong kind of men? Can it get men addicted and controlling?

    OK, so, I mention my best friend occasionally. She is a force of nature. She is the ultimate high-degree-of-difficulty woman.

    She is:

    -Stunningly exotic (at 40 years old, she looks 28 at most), especially for this part of the country
    -Seemingly confident to the point of arrogance
    -Built like brick sh*thouse (5’8″, 36 DD’s, 24″ waist)
    -Smart as a whip and articulate as can be
    -Very well-dressed and sexy/feminine
    -Funny as hell

    She has men eating out of her hand everywhere she goes. We walk into a place, and within five minutes, five men have approached her just to tell her she’s beautiful or to buy her a drink. (I have had to learn to be confident and own my awesomeness and not be put off by this dynamic. Not all women could be her friend.)

    She creates an aura of high-degree-of-difficulty easily:

    – Men give her expensive gifts and treat her to expensive dinners and dates
    -They have wanted to move hundreds of miles to be her man–they ask for exclusivity quickly. (Some will travel several times per week from great distances just to have lunch with her.)
    -She NEVER drives to a man. And if she does, they pay for her gas and her babysitter.
    -They give her their credit card numbers so she can buy pretty things to please them with.
    -They pay her bills.
    -THEY get addicted sexually to HER, not the other way around

    BUT, and here’s where I am stuck and wondering, these men also get OBSESSED with her and they attempt to CONTROL her, and it often leads to ABUSE.

    She gets them so addicted, so hooked, so unwilling to be without her or to share her, that it manifests as some scary scenes. Does she create this? Or is she picking the types of men who will be obsessive because she needs that level of feedback to feel something?

    And really, all the seemingly amazing things about her aside, her confidence is pretty low. She does not think she is smart/worthy/capable at all, and she is! Or could be…if she stopped getting men to do everything for her.

    At what point is being “A Siren” dangerous and not about self-worth? What is going on here with her, her self image, with the men who become obsessed with her to the point of abuse/control?

    How can I help her?

    How can I reconcile in my own mind what is “reasonable” Siren behavior and what leads to potential for control?

    My liaison with AlphaMale was kind of like this–he loved that I was feminine and let him lead, but it manifested as a lack of respect for me as a person and a desire to control me and to assert himself physically. And it was scary.

    It makes me afraid to really allow myself to embrace my Sirenhood. Where is the safe line? If I’m doing it “right,” will I simply not attract these types of men?? What can my friend do to be less of a victim while still reveling in her power as a Siren?

    I appreciate any insight.

  267.  #268Daria on May 27, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Boomer – my quick thought:


    And authenticity

  268.  #269Boomer on May 27, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Daria. Wow. It seems so simple when you say it like that!


    So true.

  269.  #270turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Boomer… I really appreciate what you wrote. I don’t know that I’ll ever get that kind of male attention, I am not 5’8 and built like a brick shit house… but I can see that I’ve had some of that behavior from men in my past and wonder where the issue lies. Thanks for being honest and forthcoming about your concerns. I’d love to hear what others think of this too.

  270.  #271Daria on May 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Ex : when a man becomes ‘controlling’ speak in the moment and drop him out early

    She does seem to be attracting these types of men due to boundary holes

    She seems to screen well for guys who won’t do for her – so has strong boundaries there, but not for ones who treat her well emotionally

    Haven’t heard much about opening heart either … So there is unawareness and lack of connection of not sharing authentic feelings in the moment

  271.  #272turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Oh geez…. so Mike2 just invited me to his parents house tonight to hottub. lol. I said sounded tempting, but not quite ready to meet the parents yet. lol…. oh geez. He said he understood, but they are easy going. Oh my… this is new!

  272.  #273Daria on May 27, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Ooh! I feel afraid to share this but I felt excited because when Jilly started dating Hotpilot that is exactly what I thought the issue was when he was taking his time w initiating sex. – happened to me too w a man who was my lover and I actually didn’t get attached –

    And I didn’t think it was a good idea to get exclusive so soon

    So now I feel excited like Yes!! I was right and maybe jolly will circular date

    I also feel ashamed to feel this way. I’m questioning myself like:

    Umm I’m ferling happy to hear that something isn’t working out for someone – just because it makes me think I was right?

    Do I sabotage people?

    What’s wrong with me? I’m evil.


    Im writing about this because i know being authentic will heal me.

    I love me.

    It sounds like I’m hella cold and uncaring.

  273.  #274T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    I’m sure I have mentined this before, but I am halfway through the book “The List”. I highly recommend this book! It has really opened my eyes to the crumbs I was accepting before and how lucky I feel to have found a Llist Man now! I truly feel there is a list man out there for everyone but sometimes we don’t want to see it or make excuses for the man we are with now. I was so guilty of that but really feel lucky/happy/excited now.

  274.  #275T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Turq – well, at least you know how strongly he feels about you. That is huge meeting the parents! Of course, maybe they won’t be home since he invited you over to hot tub? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  275.  #276kaitlyn on May 27, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Tmrw marks the death of A’s best friend’s suicide. A and I have been somewhat emailing. Maybe 2 emails each since last week. Just one line of superficial fluff like how are you doing/i’m doing great. baby steps. dipping toe in water, etc.

    yesterday i saw stuff on his fb saying he’s in poor heath and might be hospitalzed. i took a while to respond because adam is kinda a pity party guy and i didnt want to play into it. yet i wanted to look caring. i leaned fwd a bit and emailed:

    “i saw some things on your page that felt concerning. if you’d like to talk, i’m here for you.”

    he replied ‘thank you. i’ll see what the doctors say in a few days. hope youre doing well.’

    my reply, and notice i dont chase him like asking whats wrong:

    “i’ve always admired the way you handle adversity. i’m doing great. see you soon.”

  276.  #277Brenda on May 27, 2011 at 1:55 pm


    I absolutely love this article!!!!! It is one of your best yet, and you keep outdoing yourself!

    It is so insightful, profound, and yet you make deep pschological truths so practical to work out. Thank you, a million times over!

    Love, Brenda

  277.  #278Brenda on May 27, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Hello everyone!

    I’ve been MIA because of heavy duty moving the last three days! I am completely moved out; I am free! I am taking it easy today, sitting out on the porch with my friends of 20 yrs with whom I’m staying for awhile! I gave away nearly half of my things to Goodwill; and, even tho it felt sad to lose my grip on things I’ve been holding onto for years, it feels so freeing, like taking off a heavy backpack at the end of a long hike.

    I am sore, achey, and stiff from head to toe. Thank God, I had a lot of help from friends. I feel so happy! I am starting a new life. Baby steps.

  278.  #279Daria on May 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    I have my OWN thoughts that say: ‘you are doing nothing. You are worthless’

    I Think I picked them up from my parents when I started shifting from ‘hero’ / ‘mascot’ role to ‘rebel’ role.

    But I don’t think it matters.

    The point is… I’m already feeling bad about myself, and when mom comes in with a ‘critical’ face, it’s hooking right into that and I feel

    Rageful and get defensive

    I want to convince myself I am worthy and what I’m doing is meaningful every moment.

    I feel sad!

    It feels overwhelming.

    I can Do this.

    Vision it.

    Do I approve what I’m doing?

    No I should be , cleaning up and then creating stuff to bring money income to my desperately security starved family.

    But I don’t want to!!!



    I feel stuck now.

    I want to feel ok to sit in bed and educate myself w Rori Raye.

    And I Think, I do feel ok, but then how come I feel my tummy jumping and I feel on edge too?


    I feel frustrated lost and overwhelmed.

    I feel ragey about this!

  279.  #280Island Girl on May 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Kaitlyn- I think the emails with A sound good. You sound warm and authentic and definitely not chasing. Yay!

  280.  #281Daria on May 27, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    I feel pist!! That people aren’t giving me what I need!

    I want answers I want guidance I want support.

    I want safety dammit.

    Raarrrgh. Gruhhhah

  281.  #282Daria on May 27, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    I went to a play w my mom last night and I notice I am Not! Feeling lonely today.

    Craving fun, yes, but lonely not really. Am enjoying thinking about spending a date by myself.


    So maybe quality time w mom Does fill me up.

  282.  #283Venus on May 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Oh the elusive freedom !
    Free to feel
    Free to be me
    Free to KNOW Im worthy
    Free to love
    Free to be responsible for my own choices
    Free to allow mistakes
    Free to open my heart
    Free to accept love
    Its been said that nothing in life is free but, in my opinion the very best things are!
    Freedom rocks!

  283.  #284Venus on May 27, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Daria, maybe spending time with you fills your mom up too!

  284.  #285FlowerChild77 on May 27, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Daria…I know it must be difficult to be around your parents since you have different belief systems, and any amount of negative energy can suck the life right out of us.

    I’m wondering if you’re looking for/waiting for something that may never happen—validation and/or acceptance (in the way you wish to be accepted) from/by your parents…?

    I’m thinking how you might have to get ok about you—regardless of whether they agree, or like it, or approve, or encourage you or even want to talk about it. I apologize if I’m way wrong.

    ‘You mention changing’ from hero to mascot to rebel. Can you tell me about this? Are you referring to the roles we all take on as children growing up in our families of origin? I’m curious—do you feel this is something that changes as we grow up, get older—–or something we consciously go about changing about ourselves. This interests me, as I had a dual role in my family–I was the ‘invisible child’ AND the scapegoat and I wonder how deeply this is ingrained in me and affected my choices and relationships.

    Also, I didn’t think you were selfish or sabotaging or mean or uncaring, at all, in your post #273 I was surprised that you even felt that, as I took it more as a ‘heads-up’ since you recognized the behavior from a guy and just shared how that played out in
    your experience.

    kaitlyn/#276 I LOVE how you answered him!! I’m sure (whether out of concern or just leaning way too forward) I would have asked what was wrong without even thinking about it. I’m smiling to myself just thinking about what a perfect FM that is! I will be thinking of you tomorrow and sending good thoughts into the Universe—hoping all goes well and that you are treated with respect and kindness by bff.

    Brenda…SO happy to hear that you are in your new home and are surrounded by people who care about you. By clearing out your clutter/belongings you’ve opened up space for good things to come into your life. I’m working on that also…I envy that you’ve finished! ๐Ÿ˜‰ Keep us posted!

  285.  #286Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Oh my god!

    I heard my moms feet and I NOTICED my thoughts go to oh no I’m not doing anything

    And then changed them to… What if what I’m doing is absolutely wonderful and loving for my family – just a light effortless switch

    And when she opened the door


    MY energy was so different. I just lot up and said ; MoM! Hi!

    And beamed a huge smile of joy.

    And them she received that and asked what I was doing but I was not feeling defensive

    And then I wanted a huh so o ran after her to give her one and said Thank you I had been feeling lonely and now I don’t and I think it was because we went together to the play.

    And she said thank you too because she liked it.

    Abd I felt bonded ๐Ÿ™‚ in the moment.

    Wow wow wow wow wow!

    Thank you Daria so much!!!

  286.  #287Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Flower child – wow I feel sad to think of ‘never happen’

    And I feel a bit defensive around that.

    My aim is to accept myself and as I do so I will feel more accepted. That has definitely been working here.

    I want to feel encouraged loved, supported and admired by my family. That’s the relationship I want family wise.

    I can create this!

    Mascot hero , rebel/scapegoat

    Are the roles in dysfunctional family I learned about them in DUI class.

    For me being the only child I played multiple roles.

    I think the roles can rotate in different dynamics, abd self awareness can also heal a relationship and family so that it’s no longer toxic – and stuck with predetermined roles – but expansive and growing…

    Wow expansive and growing in a family!! That feels really good and is new to me as a concept, go mee!

    Thanks for asking Flower Goddess…

    Thank you for the feedback on my post about jillys situation, those nvs were definitely triggered and familiar, so it feels good to know I’m healing it, and your reassurance is part of that

  287.  #288FlowerChild77 on May 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Oh Daria….that brings a tear to my eye. I’m so happy for you!

    I love how you recognized the old thought creeping in as you heard your mom’s footsteps and quickly used the stop sign tool and replaced the thought with inner peace and gratitude at seeing your mom!

    I’m working on ‘knee-jerk’ reactions like that and noticing patterns I want to break. Thank you for sharing this with us! <3

  288.  #289Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Venus – :). I was hoping it does, which is why I do it… But I didn’t realize it would fill ME up.

    I had my mom do a love language quiz yesterday and she got big time: physical touch

    And second were: gifts and words of affirmation.

    Wow I so did not realize this but now see it!

    Mine is : words of affirmation

    And second : quality time

    So I bet the play registered w me as quality time! Yeah!

  289.  #290Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    Flower goddess – what was amazing is that, the small shift of thought to Accepting what I was doing (I didn’t even use stop sign, just a gentle new thought)

    That was ALL I did

    The different reaction: me saying a warm and happy hello and smiling… jUST HAPPENED

    I did not know that would happen!

    It’s acing what a different space just from a tiny shift to accepting Myself.

  290.  #291Venus on May 27, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I believe we are all the same. We ALL have our own stuff .No matter who or where you are . We are all in essence as one . We all crave validation in one way or another. Opening your heart and allowing yourself to feel good is always a good thing . It gives off good energy which in turn you received .

  291.  #292FlowerChild77 on May 27, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    OK…so Rori’s last article and today’s give me plenty to think about and work on…actually spelled it right out. I have no excuse to not start right now! ๐Ÿ™‚

    I’m having some trouble with sadness and a lack of physical energy, and I attribute this to the loss I’ve experienced and the fact that I’m still grieving. I’m trying to be gentle with myself, but at the same time I’m getting mad at myself for not making progress.

    I’ve been moved out for almost a year now and gotten nowhere. I was barely done unpacking and getting the yard shaped up (it had been neglected for over a decade) when people in my life started getting sick and dying. Sunday will be 2 weeks since the last funeral and it was someone very close in heart.

    So I guess the first thing for me to remember is that I have all the time in the world (#1 from last blog) and (from today’s blog) I need to give my boy energy some jobs to do—things that need to be done–something I can accomplish and feel good about. Hopefully, the harder my boy energy is working, the less my girl energy will dwell on having left the relationship and missing him and wishing he would call and wondering if I made a mistake and-(gack/yuck, you get it…)

    So tonight—(it’s taken me all day to work up to this—I’m seriously energy deficient)—my boy energy is going to clean up the kitchen/wash dishes (and after that I always ‘do my nails’/cuticles, etc. –it’s so much easier when your hands have been soaking and soft.) One job+taking care of me

    And I also have several baskets of clothes that need to be folded, hung up, or put away. So I’m going to get started. Another job+less clutter

    That will be good. Dishes/clean up kitchen/get rid of baskets and fold towels and keeping up with the blog, here, sounds like a “busy” night for me—when all I really feel like is taking a nap :-p

    P.S. I’m not a lazy person, by nature. I’m trying to balance the sadness and loss with patience and “tools”—-[to self: I am not in a hurry. I am not missing anything by going through this and all is exactly as it should be for right now. My life will unfold as I become ready to step into it.]

    Baby steps…

  292.  #293Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm



    My mom asked me if we should get chocolates for my friend’s bridal shower and i said yes, Sees, those are really good

    she said i have a surprise for you

    so in a few minutes she comes up with a BOX OF SEES CANDY!!!

    nuts and chews my favorite!!



    /I FEEEL so wonderful ii feel lik eSCARED!!!


  293.  #294Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 3:45 pm


    Daria, that is SO exciting to read!



  294.  #295Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    There’s this guy that has been trying to message me on myspace for a few YEARS now

    but i felt scared. So here he is today, his third message to me this week:

    A says:

    What drew me to ur profile was ur beauty and also what u wrote that’s why I wanted to hit u up

    So I decided to practice being truly authentic and I feel so good and proud of myself!

    Here it is:

    Hi… Thank you for the compliments ๐Ÿ™‚
    I feel honored

    You know, I’ve noticed you hitting me up before, and I felt scared to communicate w you because I saw stiff like big guns on your page and felt kinda scared a little. I guess clean cut guys with guns scare me way more than gangsters, that I feel comfortable with.

    I don’t feel safe to date a guy into the military or law enforcement … Is that whatsup with you?
    What do you think?

  295.  #296Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Lillybelle I love you! Thank you so much for the consistent support and love you’ve given me here!


  296.  #297Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm


    why does NICK CANNON want to be my friend?

    I feel moved and teary and all flattered

    he is MARRIED!! haha

    i am imagining he thought i was awesome – or his support team… either way, he’s adding me

    and I want to keep thinking thoughts that feel good

  297.  #298Daria on May 27, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    I want to make myself feel good.

    My boy wants to shower me and then take me out to the park to smoke a blunt

    and then maybe to the library

    he’s concerned that i might start to feel bored and lonely

    and he wants to make sure i have eaten lots of protein…

    especially after the chocolate sugar


    im sure he’ll figure it out!

    he’s awesome!!!

    well he’s taking me to the shower now!


  298.  #299Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 4:00 pm


    Awwww Daria, pretty girl, you are making my eyes leak, in a good way.

    I feel moved.

    Ginormous hugs to you!


  299.  #300Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    I’m listening to a recording of the “Soulmate Dating Teleseminar”. Half way though and I hear a lot of advertising for the “kit”. Nothing I can really sink my teeth into just yet..


  300.  #301Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    “You will always love everyone you have ever loved in some way and NONE of it was ever wasted. It is the attachment you must get rid of.”


    Don’t be surprised if the person you are releasing the attachment to, shows back up. They can feel it energetically. Don’t let them back if they can’t or don’t show you that they have changed or are willing to do the work.

    Hmmm…maybe that is why hideandgoseekguy kept coming back around…for five years. I kept letting him back, even though his words didn’t match his actions.

    Got it.

  301.  #302FlowerChild77 on May 27, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Daria, I did not mean to upset you with my comment. I guess it was just a thought I had remembering posts where you are upset and working through feelings about the dynamic you have with your parents. I apologize.

    Thank you for sharing about the roles. I am also an only child from a severely dysfunctional alcoholic family. I understand what you mean about having more than one role. I think by being the only child we ended up ‘absorbing’ more than if we had siblings who each had their own role, so to speak.

    I went to Al-Anon for many, many years and also went to ACOA meetings (Adult Children of Alcoholics.) I no longer need to dwell on that so much–but there was a time when I needed it to save my own sanity (and my life–my ex-husband was physically abusive–learning the facts helped me get away.)

    I see a lot of people that hang onto all this ‘stuff’ forever—long past its usefulness, which only serves as something to blame instead of understanding what happened and why—and learning how to do it differently. I am hopeful that I helped break the chain for my own children.

    I like it that even though you’d probably rather be doing something else when it’s time for DUI class—you’re looking for the lesson and finding little ‘nuggets’ to take away with you.

    We seem to have some things in common (although I think you are quite a bit younger than I–I’m 51) and I sense that I can learn many things from you ๐Ÿ™‚

  302.  #303Turquoise3 on May 27, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    T-Girl…. this is just throwing me because we’ve only had two dates! We have emailed a few times over the last 6 months or so. (emailed for a week or two, and then just stopped). His parents will be there, plus they are having friends visit from out of town. I don’t know… but not ready for that yet. lol. Besides, I had plans with my girlfriends tonight, and I don’t blow them off for a guy.

    He did say some things I really liked today. Several times he’s mentioned that he wants me to be comfortable. He offered to come and cut my grass, cut my hedges, bring his pressure washer for my porch… said how adorable my girls are, and commented that he loved my long hair in old pictures. I liked my long hair too… and was wondering if I should grow it out again or not.

    I haven’t offered to do anything for him, I’m not asking to see him or for anything. I haven’t cooked, just some soft kisses, no sex… I’ve just been open and receptive, asked him about himself and what he wants, offered some compassion and understanding with what he’s going through with looking for a job, starting back to college, and dealing with his illness. This is new… having a guy who wants to step up and help me. I’m kind of shocked.

  303.  #304Lilybelle on May 27, 2011 at 5:00 pm


    This is getting fun to watch. New guy, stepping up and showing you what you deserve. How cool is that?

    How does that go? This or something better?

    Have fun with your gf’s tonight!

  304.  #305Mel on May 27, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Doing some digging, I found he also has been visiting Plenty of Fish.

    I confronted him on this and he says that it’s just a fantasy. He has never actually met up with anyone.

    I feel sick. I want to believe him, but I don’t see why he would visit a site like this if it wasn’t to meet someone real.

  305.  #306FlowerChild77 on May 27, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    I can’t imagine how you must feel right now, Mel. I’m not enough of a Siren to give you any advice. I can only say that my thoughts are with you and I’m sorry you’re going through this. (((Hugs)))

  306.  #307Island Girl on May 27, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Mel – I’m sorry that I don’t have any words of wisdom for you. All I can offer right now is a big ((((HUG)))).
    Well, one thing – try not to let the panic set in — I’m just starting the Modern Siren CD’s and really liked Rori’s tool about seeing the Air around you. I used it this week when I was starting to get really upset and it really helped.

  307.  #308Mel on May 27, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Too late. Panic’s already set-in.

  308.  #309RiverGirl on May 27, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Hi everyone, just skimming here, seeing how y’all are doin’

    Daria, I just had a thought (knock it on the head if you don’t agree with it) ๐Ÿ™‚

    You have been doing so much work, growing and getting to know your feminine side, using the tools, getting to your inner most feelings, exploring triggers and turning nv around. You are so good at helping other sirens work through the feelings and issues that come up for them.

    And yet, I sense a lot of sadness within you sometimes. How would you feel about forgetting about all this self work sometimes and taking a break from all the learning and practising. A lot of it will be second nature to you now and will come out naturally as you interact with the world.

    What would it be like to get totally out of your head for a while. Give you nuturing boy side a chance to express itself. Do you have friends or relatives with young kids? How would it be to maybe babysit sometimes and just play with the kids. It feels so good giving time and attention to others and we get so much in return. Also using up some of our “need to nuture” energy can lessen our need to do it within our relationships with men.

    A lot of what I have written above, applies to me, and I suspect it applies to a lot of women who don’t have children. Would love to hear what you thought about that and also any others who have ideas about this aspect of the boy/girl dynamic within us.

  309.  #310T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Oh Mel, I am so sorry to hear this. It kind of reminds me of what I went through with my ex-husband. I don’t know what your future holds for you, but take care of yourself. Ask yourself questions. Is this what you want for you? Can you work through it? Will it get better? Those are questions that I asked myself and for awhile fear and insecurities kept me there (needlessly).

  310.  #311T-Girl on May 27, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    And sorry if this is harsh but I don’t buy the fantasy part. There are plenty of other sites he could visit for that – not Plenty of Fish where the opportunity to meet someone is very real.

  311.  #312Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Mel , its time to talk to this man in a non confrontational way .
    Its time to ask the questions you dont want to to hear the answers to..

    How are you feeling about our marriage?
    Are you experimenting online ?
    Are there other untruths you have told me about where you are and with whom?

    etc etc etc

    Its very scary but time for some facts so you can begin to make choices .

    Any man who has a profile on a dating website may not be cheating in the flesh , but he is putting his energy outside the relationship.

    If you dont want this you must clealy , calmly let him know your boundary.

    And you must be prepared to walk if your boundary is not violated .

  312.  #313Rosa on May 27, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    oops , Violated and not respected…sorry Mel

  313.  #314Queenbee on May 27, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Thank you Lilybelle.

    Hugs back to you ๐Ÿ™‚


  314.  #315Sammie on May 27, 2011 at 10:39 pm


    So sorry to hear what is happening. I would encourage you (as Daria did) to contact Rori personally.

    Before, it seemed hard to know if your husband was just stressed with work.



  315.  #316Graceful Love on May 27, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Thanks #263 Boomer and Torquoise #266 ๐Ÿ™‚ It’s all getting clearer to me..

    I love the feeling of being of high value. I have always thought of myself mediocre few months ago because i thought I would be more acceptable if i was that way. I have always been taught to be humble by my parents and accepting towards everything.

    I love the new way of living! I have been working on myself since the last 6 months and it has been an amazing journey.

  316.  #317Queenbee on May 27, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    RE: 247 – Texasfemme – there was a Siren on the last thread that posted a reply to her situation from Rori where the man wanted to commit and she wasn’t ready and was CDing.

    That would leave the man free to CD.

    Rori asked her to really consider why she doesn’t want the man… like, why doesn’t she want to be loved?

    I have a similar experience as you. What I’ve noticed is that I don’t feel ‘ready’ for relationship coz of stuff going on with me.

    It doesn’t justify not being in relationship and still saying I want one.

    I think the authentic thing is to be able to open up to a man about what I’m feeling and whatever it is I feel is hindering me from being in a relationship.

    Usually it’s what’s going on in my life. So considering when I authentically would be ready. Asking him what he thinks – obviously a tailored conversation – not a speech – just an opening up.

    The strange thing I notice is that there is no guarantee that whatever we want sorted in our own lives will be sorted in the exact way we want to free us up to now be ready for a relationship. We can only do the best we can.

    That’s why blocking the men and ending up alone is not always the best choice. We can’t predict the future.

    It’s not an easy balance. One has to do what feels good to you, keep your boundaries strong so that you can trust yourself.

    I decided to do the best I can to create space for a man to be in my life and allow myself to open up to him. I don’t know if any of it can ever be perfect, but I’m sure willing to create the space in my life to where I feel comfortable.

    It’s all about what one feels and what would cause one to feel ready.


  317.  #318Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 1:35 am

    Hi Sirens,

    How does this sound below? I want to practice with this man.

    Dear J,

    How are you? I hope all is well.

    I feel deeply weird not hearing back from you to confirm or cancel, re. meeting this week as you had requested. I feel that my time is important and would like to follow through when I agree to meet someone. In the case that is not possible, a word to cancel feels better as I can then free my time up for other activities. I don’t want to sound harsh, but this feels bad to me like being taken advantage of and I don’t like it. I don’t want to have this experience again.

    Thank you.



  318.  #319Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 3:27 am

    Queenbee I no longer say I want a relationship, I say I am ready or I am willing. I’ve listened to conversations with God that suggest I “want” will tell the Universe just that and it will produce you constantly “wanting”.

  319.  #320Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 3:36 am

    RE 318 I would assume this is not a committed situation, maybe it is in his mind. If so I would assume he is entitled to do what he wants with his time etc.

    I wouldn’t even bother until he contacts me. In the past I would give him a few days for him to show me his integrity or the depth of his fear. If he didn’t I would contact him, he might be afraid of your wrath by then. Depending on what he says, because life happens, I would respond with what I don’t want. I have had a situation where he went to rest before we agreed to meet up he said he did not wake up until 1 am the next morning. I literally laughed because he said he was so afraid of how I would react and the way he said it came across as authentic and true, I really felt that. He could not believe when I said “sheeet happens”. He said “you are once, twice, three times a lady”. He is used to drama and have used the word pscyho to describe one of his exes. I don’t judge him plus I had a plan B myself. He has never done that again and he might have been lying but it is up to him to qualify himself.

    This guy could be testing your boundary and I would suggest staying firm on “he’s off the planet” until he contacts you. Then I would recommend sharing how I feel. Not wanting to have this experience again is only a wish. It might happen again with another man, then what. I would want to be clear on what I want to do in such situations. It might be a little thing to him.

  320.  #321Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 3:46 am

    Queenbee I wonder if integrity and respect are important to you? If so I would share that and the fact that my time is important to me. This sounds like a you directed statement to me “a word to cancel feels better as I can then free my time up for other activities”, also “like being taken advantage of” and “I donโ€™t want to have this experience again”. Kinda sorta tells me you did this to me and don’t do it again.

  321.  #322Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 3:54 am

    Mel sorry to hear that it seems you would best serve yourself to clarify what you want for yourself and ask yourself the tough questions as Rosa suggested. Be clear what sacrifice you are willing to make and at what cost you want to keep this relationship. I would not want to be in a situation where I have to be snooping around that takes too much of my energy away from me and my heart could not take that. I would defintely avoid getting verbally aggressive. I have sensed you want your marriage to survive, reevaluate that and if the relationship is working. I would sink into my feelings even if it means mourning around him. Please be willing to take a hard look at it and do what you believe you need to do to take care of yourself. I believe both of you have to be willing to revisit the relationship to see if that is what you both want and if need be recommit to it.

  322.  #323Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 4:33 am

    Hi FW – thanks for that. Ok, makes sense.

    Next time, if a man hasn’t confirmed and doesn’t keep in touch in the week leading up, I’ll assume it’s okay to accept a date from another man. Then if he calls last minute, I can say ‘oh, gosh, it would have been nice, but when I didn’t hear from you, I assumed it was okay to make other plans – sorry”. Then if he asks I can say ‘yes, I feel okay meeting up another time” – then see what happens.

    How does that sound?

    FW – what do you mean by this?

    “RE 318 I would assume this is not a committed situation, maybe it is in his mind. If so I would assume he is entitled to do what he wants with his time etc.”

    I don’t understand – please clarify?





  323.  #324Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 4:39 am

    321 – yes, exactly FW. Integrity and respect are important to me. And that is exactly the point.

    If I was to send that email, I would feel fine with it. I’m really just letting him know what doesn’t work and I would appreciate not being treated that way.

    I’m not used to being treated this way – so it’s a new one for me.

    I guess, I’m feeling kinda pissed off. I’d actually feel better if I sent it. Get something off my chest.

    If he calls me again and wants to go out, I can decide if I want to do it or not. If he doesn’t oh well, I’ve said my piece and he can take or leave it, but that is how I feel and I want to be treated a certain way. And when I’m not, I feel better just expressing it.

    What do you think?


  324.  #325Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 4:43 am

    FW – RE: 321 – ok, I get it. Maybe I just need to forget it. It’s not that important anyway. I’ll go with the “off the planet”. I really don’t want to spend time working on an FM and email to send to him.

    It’s just whatever… I’ll wait till he contacts me again and then go with the flow.

    My heart aches for HAman – one day I’ll figure this thing out ๐Ÿ™


  325.  #326Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:50 am

    RE 324 Sounds like seeking closure to me. What do you think about practicing silence? Is it him you want to treat you that way? What I have learnt is that men understand distance/space. We connect using words. If this would a woman I am convinced it would work. As it is a man I would assume he would expect this from you and might convince him that he was right about why and question himself about why he would want to be with an angry woman. Have you ever heard the saying Silence is louder than words.

    “, I assumed it was okay to make other plans โ€“ sorryโ€.

    I would say I made other plans but I will be free on >>>>>>>>>. This comment seems like you are seeking his approval to me. Don’t know if you need to do that but for me it is my life.

    I would also suggest you seek Loneplum’s perspective directly. I like how she breaks things down and it seems she has a lot of experience to me.

  326.  #327Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:52 am

    RE 325 Queenbee my heart aches to deeply surrender in a relationship. I am not sure it is aching any longer for any particular man since I came here to Rori’s way. I have also seen several women here aching for a particular man and he consistently drifted away from them. Seems like when they/I let go is when he comes toward me. It seems the way the energy works is that when you step back they are pulled forward. I have seen it in my own life.

  327.  #328Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:54 am

    Do you have a verbally agreeed upon mutual commitment with him?

  328.  #329Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:56 am

    It might also help if you decide how much lead time you need. Let him know you would like 24/48 hour confirmation otherwise you will assume that it is off. Think boundary setting here.

  329.  #330Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Queenbee others might tell you to share your feelings. For me I am now in a place where I prefer to practice speaking up about my boundaries and stepping back when he comes forward to see how much he is willing to step up. I want to be with a man who wants to be with me. I want him to make his own choices.

  330.  #331Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 5:24 am

    Ok FW. All very interesting. I like what you say. When men ask me out, I give them a week ahead. Perhaps they are not prepared for that as it seems they want me to agree the next day or 3 days away. I don’t want to do that.

    I like that, I can say when I’m free next.

    It’s not that I can’t ‘get over’ HAman. I read what you posted from CCarter above. I wonder if HAman is waiting for me to contact him when I feel ready. I think with everything that went on, he may have felt confused with all my negative feelings etc.

    In the past he has given me time when I’m in a weird feeling place – don’t know if this is another one of those times?

    AARGH!! Or is it me just wanting to lean forward?

    His birthday is next Friday. Would it be okay to send him a birthday wish, or is that too leaning forward?


  331.  #332Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:28 am

    It seems you are conflicted about how to respond so you might serve yourself best to sit back and get clear for yourself how you really feel. I have read from a coach that guys don’t really expect us to contact them about their birthdays especially if they don’t do that for us so I have chosen more than once to let it go. I have also learnt from Rori that when we initiate anything it is based in a need on our part so when I feel like that I ask myself why am I here, what are my intentions and what it is I need? Coming from a place of need seems to always push them away.

  332.  #333Venus on May 28, 2011 at 5:34 am

    Queenbee, That email may initially make you feel better but by sending it you are leaning forward. Lean back . go with the flow and spend your precious time and energy on something worthy of you.

  333.  #334Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 5:34 am

    “I wonder if HAman is waiting for me to contact him when I feel ready.” If you had a date with him yesterday I woud doubt this. I have also learnt that “a man who keeps you wondering is wondering about you”. I would assume he knows I am ready, it comes across in our energy and body language. If he was confused with your negative feelings rest assured that if they still exist they will push him away. I would work on those if I were you rather than stepping forward towards him. If he has given you time in the past suggest he might know how to be with a woman and that he would do that in the future. He will feel your energy when you are in a good place and I am convinced he will come forward on his own which is when I would be the invitation. I think of magnetizing rather than pulling.

  334.  #335Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 5:41 am

    RE: 328 – No, just a CD. It’s not worth saying anything – off the planet works better. As you say, men understand distance.

    I notice I give men a week away dates – perhaps, they get that my interest isn’t all that up ๐Ÿ™‚

    I need 2 or 3 days advance notice if I’m really into the man.

    Perhaps, it’s just me…

    I do long to deeply surrender in a relationship. I just feel that HAman was giving me that relationship and I didn’t see it. I was off in my own head – now I wonder if he is giving me time, or if he’s just lost interest.

    The problem is that I feel torn. i wake up and after that five second bliss of not knowing who I am or where I am, I come to and in the next second – HAman ๐Ÿ™

    It would feel good to get out of this, but nothing seems to be working.

    I don’t know what to think.

    What to do?


  335.  #336Venus on May 28, 2011 at 5:45 am

    ” A man that keeps you wondering is wondering about you ” In my opinion thats a load of crap ! If a man is truly interested he shows up and nothing will keep him away. A man that keeps you wondering is keeping you in his back pocket, just in case.

  336.  #337Venus on May 28, 2011 at 6:02 am

    Wondering is thinking. Feeling comes from the heart.

  337.  #338Queenbee on May 28, 2011 at 6:03 am

    FW – sometimes, I just don’t get it. HAman was obsessed with my birthday. He said he was “sad and disappointed that I didn’t let him talk to me” – He was calling me while on his Europe trip – and I just couldn’t. I was in such a bad feeling place about Easter Vac, I couldn’t and I didn’t want to be cold on the phone, so I conveniently didn’t pick up.

    Venus – thanks for posting to me.

    I guess I feel like, we were close and if I ignore his birthday, it’s like really saying I don’t care, or I forgot or I’m just clueless.

    I get very confused about this leaning back thing.

    The times I’ve leaned forward when he’s given me time, he was always happy to hear from me and would say so. Then he would lean forward ask me out etc.

    I deleted him from my skype and he could take it that I’m not interested.

    Only when I leaned forward with the text when he came back from Europe, I interpreted his ‘thank you have a lovely day” as a cold. Then got into it with him.

    Perhaps he is giving me time to figure out what I want, coz honestly, I know I haven’t been ready.

    I’ve been thinking lately, that I could be ready soon.

    It would hurt me more not to send a birthday wish to someone I care about deeply.

    I don’t care for an outcome. He deserves a birthday wish from me –

    Even if I leaned forward to do that – so what? I would not fall off the planet. Nothing would happen to me. All would be well and life would go on.

    If a birthday wish is going to push him away further, then I’m really feeling no flexibility with the leaning back/ leaning forward.

    What do you think?


  338.  #339Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 6:44 am

    Meeting up with BoyScout today for a movie, Mexican food, and a street festival. He asked if he is invited to stay the night so he could plan (he is driving from more than two hours away). I said yes, but with no promise for intimacy. We agree that the focus of the day is to be together and keep learning about and feeling good with each other.

    Because I am new to this step-up behavior, I admit that I might be looking for chinks in his armor….I feel a slight tug of disbelief, maybe even distrust, that this guy could be “for real.” Like Turquoise, I’m just not used to a man being this giving and kind.

    He did say one thing that felt bad to me, and I find I am dwelling on it. We were chatting online during the work day last week, and I was thanking him for the wonderful extended date from the weekend before. We had gone to the local aquarium, and then to a beautiful dinner with wine and lovely food close to my heart (Northern Italian), and then to see my favorite local cover band with some of my friends. Just as I was feeling so good about a man providing such a wonderful experience for me, he paused and then said that it was very expensive and that he hopes that’s not the expectation every time we see each other….he can’t afford that!

    OK, so, the logical, responsible boy-me can identify with that fear…a little. (However, boy-me is very generous, and once money is spent on people I care about, I don’t give it a moment’s thought.) The beautiful, Siren-y, receiving girl-me felt terrible. Like I had intentionally used him and stretched his resources or something…like I am only worth that kind of expenditure occasionally and that perhaps I used him. He makes quite a lot of money, actually, which should be neither here nor there, but I am aware that he has resources, so this feels even worse to me.

    I wish he had kept that to himself…and then just changed the nature of our dates himself to less pricey but still fun events without making a pronouncement about it. The truth is, I could enjoy much simpler destinations and dates easily, but I was impressed and pleased by his seeming generosity.

    I feel a bit shameful–like I focused too much on the extravagance of the date HE PLANNED–but I also feel angry that he had to say something like that.

    What do you ladies think? Should I tell him how I feel about this? I fear this is the one thing between us. It’s making me hesitant now to really open up to him intimately…I don’t want to be with a man who watches pennies or who is going to be bringing up money. I want a man who gladly provides generous experiences for me.

    AM I making a mountain out of a molehill?

  339.  #340Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 6:46 am

    Boomer? Did you say anything in response to him when he mentioned it?

  340.  #341Venus on May 28, 2011 at 6:48 am

    Think of you leaning back as your girl energy. I visualise myself sitting on the beach , drink in hand while cabbana boys serve me. I dont do a thing. The boy energy in you feels the need to do something. Like Rory says go for a manicure or do something for yourself and let the boy energy play out that way. We think we need to do something , anything to keep thier thoughts on us but it works at cross purposes. Leaning forward is chasing , leaning back alllows your heart to open and with that the possibilities are endless!

  341.  #342Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:04 am

    OK, I suppose this is a negative morning for me. I am going to process it here so I can release it before I see BoyScout and start my day out in the world.

    I had a second date another CD, QuirkyCutie, last night. Emphasis on the QUIRKY. We went to a comedy club and then across the hall in the same entertainment complex to see that same band I mention above (he wanted to see them too, as he’d heard about them).

    He felt sick, evidently, from some medication he takes and wanted to leave after 20 minutes. I felt disappointment, but tried to be understanding. I felt really turned off by him though–I understand sick, but he was really kind of obnoxious about it: I mean, why take a medication that makes you sick ON A DATE??? And there was no “I’m sorry to end this early.” And in the car on the way back, he made weird gagging noises, and then I noted a funny story about my time in his home town (Detroit), and he did not find it funny. I said, “I feel a bit uncomfortable right now. Do you…you don’t get my sense of humor, do you?” He said, “No, no, I guess I really don’t.” At least he was honest. There were other odd pauses in our interactions too that were pink flags to me. But strangely, three times, he grabbed me and kissed me and touched my breasts once. Weird.

    It’s like HE needs to be the smart, funny one and felt any expression of my own personalty that was anything other than sweet/positive/sweetie-pie/treacly/girlie made him uncomfortable.

    I invited him into my house to have a glass of water and a rest…I was concerned about him driving another 40 minutes home feeling ill. He asked me to make him a piece of toast???? So I did, but I am feeling the whole time like “Wow, I do not want to be taking care of a man like this. I wanted HIM to make MY evening nice tonight.” I felt a lot of resentment.

    So…weird night. We had an odd little hug at the door. About 45 minutes later, after I had forgotten about him and basically written him off, he texted me to say “I got home safely and am feeling better.”

    I found I honestly did not care how he was or if he was safe! I wanted to see some “I’m sorry the evening ended oddly” or for him to make it about ME a little bit.

    I recognize a bit of a little boy here who needs to make it all about him and who needs to be the smart one and who needs to be taken care of. Whew! I feel like I dodged a bullet. I don’t think I’ll hear from him again, but it was an interesting learning experience. I feel grateful that I saw it this soon and can decide that he is not for me.

    OK, thanks for letting me vent today, Sirens. I feel much better, like I released the frustration and confusion and can go forth being a fabulous Siren myself today!

  342.  #343Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 7:06 am

    Boomer 339…in my experience sometimes men just say “stuff” and it’s like…really? was that necessary?!! and I try not to get hung up on it especially if his actions are still showing what I want to see

    I don’t think he meant anything by it…but I would feel the same way you do…like “hey don’t do it if you don’t want to” and I don’t want a man doing something and then feeling bad about it later…but that’s his own deal

    I might say something to that effect in the right moment…just for practice ๐Ÿ˜‰

  343.  #344Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:10 am


    Well, a the time, I was taken aback by BoyScout’s reference to the expense, but I said I appreciated the effort and expense and that I don’t expect extravagance every time–that being together is the point. Then I changed the subject.

    I suppose the more authentic thing to say would have been “I feel taken aback by that.” But that felt rude.

    I dunno…now what? Has the opportunity to express my discomfort passed? Do I just get over it and focus on the positive feeling she inspires in me?

  344.  #345Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:13 am

    “Feelings HE…” Not “feeling she.”


    Jilly, I like that..”Really? Did you HAVE to say that?”

    He has commented that I am so secure compared to other women and that he really likes that about me. Maybe saying something playfully while delivering my message will be respected by him.

  345.  #346jackie on May 28, 2011 at 7:16 am

    If it is over -after five months it fizzled out – and there was hope at one time, a real connection, and I know I didn’t show enough vulnerability and he felt I was too quiet, is there any mileage in sending this? no harm if it is really over, but is it sabotage if he might have bounced back? I haven’t sent it, and won’t unless I haven’t heard from him for about six weeks I thought – would just like advice on whether it is pointless rowing….

    I hope this doesn’t make you uncomfortable – that’s the very last thing I would want to do. I would like to feel you have only nice memories of me, (well except the 999 bit!). I would hate to know I had done anything to make you feel bad, or think less of me. I hope it doesn’t seem too sad or mad, I think it is a wee bit brave!

    I am sorry that it didn’t work for you – it seemed lovely and special for a while (to me anyway) – but it started to get a bit vague – the big gaps and lack of contact made me feel really uncertain and I know I was a bit quiet when I was with you the last couple of times. It seemed to be cooling for you for a while, less nice wee texts telling me I was wonderful, dropping off radar for ages, but just when I would be giving up – you would get back in touch. I was always on the backfoot – I kept thinking you were coming to tell me it was over, so I was nervous initially, and then I would just try to enjoy the night when I realised you weren’t – but I was a bit confused about what was going on all the time! That was a bit of a pattern, so I tried to convince myself recently that everything was ok. I wanted to talk to you about it, but it felt like I would be complaining or pushing you and I really didnโ€™t want to do that. I was struggling with reconciling my own insecurity and your relaxed approach, which was my problem not yours. I liked you immediately – you know that of course ๏Š – and I was happy to wait to see if I grew on you a bit more. So I tried to squash down asking for too much or being too vulnerable. Completely stupid – as it didn’t give you a chance to see who I really was. I realise now that I should have just said how I felt, it would have been more honest. I wasn’t trying to pretend to be something I wasn’t though, I was trying to ignore my insecurity as it is only a part of me, and it shouldn’t run my life…

    And also – a big part of me really appreciated and respected your approach – you were trying to get to know me properly, to be sure we were suited. I am used to men trying to railroad me, deciding they want to be with me when they don’t really know me, so it felt a bit strange but very nice that you weren’t like that. You don’t want to be in a relationship with just anyone, you want the right person, thatโ€™s mature, thoughtful, wise, and uncommon. It was new to me though, and I found it hard to let my guard down too much. I did try, I brought you into my home, my bed, asked you to meet my friends and family, tried to encourage you to spend a bit more time with me so I could feel a bit more relaxed around you. We have both been through the mill break up wise, so we are both a bit wary I suppose. I took a lot of time to try and heal myself before I thought about trying to be in a relationship, it isnโ€™t fair to see people if you arenโ€™t ready. I have only been on a handful of dates in nearly 3 years, I am very careful โ€“ I donโ€™t want to waste anyones time, or hurt anyone, or be played. I only saw one other person for more than a few weeks โ€“ but he wasnโ€™t right for me, too brash, didnโ€™t tip, not nice enough manners ๏Š. Though I did feel a lot more sure of him โ€“ he did my garden one day as a surprise while I was at work, always trying to do things for me – sort of tried to push his way into my life I suppose, make himself indispensible โ€“ but when I crashed my car it meant I phoned him right away, I knew he would be right there. I never felt I could do that with you, I didnโ€™t know from one week to the next that we were still on!

    You kept me very seperate from your life too – never having me over – not meeting any of my or your friends, so I was always a bit unsure that we were even in a relationship. I was fine about going slow, you have two children to consider, but I was always a bit concerned it was more than that. Maybe you didn’t think I would fit into your life, or you thought your friends wouldn’t like me, or maybe you really only wanted something very casual with me from the word go. I couldnโ€™t get a feel of what you were hoping for โ€“ I should have asked, and I didnโ€™t, I was hoping it would just progress naturally. It feels to me that if we had done a bit more together โ€“ spent time in other peoples company โ€“ gone more places – you would have got a better idea of what I am like, what makes me angry, what makes me sad, when I am shy, when I am confident. It may have been the same outcome, but I would have felt at least we had both given it our best shot.

    This is all academic I suppose as it doesnโ€™t matter why if it it is over for you, but I wanted you to know I did try, you are the only person I have been with in years that I have felt any connection to – real fondness, affection, and attraction – and it felt great. Maybe some of it was a kinship thing, I felt you understood my values and reserves and morals, and that helped me to feel safe and to trust you, but it was so much more than that. I loved so many things about you.

    I want to be with someone who feels the same of course, so this isn’t a begging letter, it is a sorry if I messed it up letter, and more, it really is a thank you letter. Being with you made me feel really happy, it was a pleasure to be in your company, to be in your arms, and you did me so much good. You showed me how I should expect to be treated, and I hope I find someone like you โ€“ though you are a bit of a one off! I really cared about you, and I will miss you. I hope you know I am not going to be a pest though, I wonโ€™t contact you again, I promise. It just felt right to let you know that I am sad that it didnโ€™t work out, but that I understand, and I donโ€™t regret any of it โ€“ I am glad I met you.
    Take care, I hope you find someone you can love, and loves you back, you really deserve it –

    J xxx

  346.  #347Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 7:17 am

    MAN! Remember my CD I was talking about yesterday who was I felt was controlling me and I was feeling uncomfortable about?

    I dropped a fm and “don’t want” response to his “oh, so now you aren’t talking to me” email.

    I just got a long one back where he says:

    “I am so sorry if you maybe took things wrong as I can be a bit impatient. The fact that you wrote me back and expressed yourself and your dislikes is BIG
    of you rather then just ignore the whole thing. I love the fact that you took the time to explain how you felt, thats HUGE.

    Very interesting stuff. I love seeing the results.

  347.  #348Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 7:18 am

    So…after I was on here yesterday morning..

    my dad came into town for the weekend and we decided to take my little niece horse back riding and I invited Hotpilot…so it was my dad, Hotpilot, my brother and his daughter and it felt so fun and comfortable!!

    Then we went to my mom’s where my sister in law was and Hotpilot met her and her two girls and my step dad!!

    Then we all met up for dinner (except my mom and step dad) so Hotpilot had a BIG day with my family and it felt so good and easy and comfortable

    Then we came back to my house and he said he was staying the night..I like when he takes charge (he normally does) and we did have sex and he did what I really like without me even saying anything…

    then we had a good talk afterwards and I don’t have time to go into details (I have an appt to get my lashes touched up yay!!) but I was feeling disconnected and not close while we were talking and I expressed this and he pulled me close and asked how he could fix it and was giving me sweet soft kisses and he seemed to open up more after that…I love that

    But I’ll be back to fill in the details…but I am feeling really good about things today..way better than yesterday

  348.  #349Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 7:21 am

    Lilybelle….uggg….ick! when a man says…”so you aren’t talking to me now?” that’s the worst! ๐Ÿ™‚

    K ladies..have to go back later ๐Ÿ™‚

  349.  #350Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Is it wrong for me to want to have a man provide the same experience for me that I would provide myself?

    For example, if I treat myself to a meal at a nice restaurant, if I want the $34.00 veal, I order it. I see no virtue in getting the $19.00 pasta dish just because it’s more economical when I really want the veal. I will order the $9.00 glass of wine when I know it is a superior wine to the $6.00 glass, and I will enjoy the veal and wine with abandon.

    Do I have to be conscious of HIS money in a way I will not worry about my own?

    I mean, I make a good living, but I do have four kids who suck up most of my money. On the rare occasions I can treat myself, I get what I want and I thoroughly enjoy it.

    I spend a A LOT of money also to be beautiful and presentable and available for the men I date: nails, good hair, pretty clothing, babysitters. I mean, I do it for myself too, but if I were not actively dating, I might not spend so much of my own money to be available and enjoyable for them.

    I did not think I had money issues…but maybe I do???

    Maybe one of my must-haves for a man I date is that he be financially sound and not “cheap” or a penny pincher. Anyone else feel this way? Am I totally off base here? Am I not seeing what’s important?

  350.  #351Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 7:25 am

    Boomer…I have a few good lines of things that men have said..I’ll try and remember them lol

    but I think there will be a good time for you to bring it up still..if you want to…hotpilot said something about wondering if I was materialistic and that felt bad to me and I mentioned something later about it and felt better…he clarified himself and then said…”I’m really glad you don’t get hung up on stuff and get mad” and pipeliner said the same thing when later I would ask for clarification in an open warm vulnerable authentic way ๐Ÿ™‚

  351.  #352Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 7:27 am

    344: Nope, I don’t think you need to say anything else, especially because you made yourself clear with your response.

    You are a Siren-y Siren and you will know if you need to say anything about it again. Because, if he is frugal, tight-fisted or whatever, it’s going to show up right away.

    But really? Did he have to go and say that??!!!

    Do I make sense?

  352.  #353Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:28 am


    LOL. THAT is some feedback you can sink your teeth into.

    What are you gonna do with him???

  353.  #354Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 7:39 am


    I know, right?!? I think I might be moving up in the Siren ranks? What do you think?

    I am not sure what I am going to do with him. I believe I will continue to let him lead, he is wanting me to lean forward, initiate calls etc and I won’t. I feel like yelling…DAMN IT! YOU are the man! lol
    I’ll just keep practicing on him and if he actually steps up and his actions follow his words, I’ll see him.

    This morning, I feel like I have a big ole block of fear around dating and am not sure where that is stemming from. And maybe it’s because there are so many wanting to “take” me out and the men getting better, more in line with what I am looking for but none of them seem to be stepping up by way of actually calling and asking me out. So maybe, it’s just that I feel frustrated.

    I may need to reframe my request to the Universe. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  354.  #355Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 7:40 am

    It seems that they have a way of knocking themselves off my horse without me having to do anything.

  355.  #356Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:40 am

    RE 350 Boomer I see that as you looking at your beliefs about money which is healthy.

  356.  #357Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Jackie. Hmmm. My initial response reading your proposed letter was “Accck!!! Oh no! I hope you have not sent that!” I feel it’s a lot of explaining.

    I bet it was cathartic for you to write however, and in that it has value. If it were me, I might keep it…for a time. And when the six weeks are up, re-evaluate how you feel about him and the situation. Re-read it then. I will also bet that you will be surprised at some of your word choice and your own need.

    I would say not to send it. Spend the next six weeks focusing on YOU. Then see how you feel about it.

  357.  #358Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:46 am

    RE 336 Venus I understand that saying just the way you understand it. A man who keeps you wondering whether he will show up for you, whether he is interested in you, whether you are good enough for him is a man who is wondering if you are good enough for him or if he really wants you. I also understand it as keeping you in his back pocket.

  358.  #359Ella on May 28, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Hmmm, I’m feeling yummy!

    I have been feeling good and yummy for a few days.

    Feels tingly and warm in my vagina a lot.

    And yesterday pub guy has come forward again and stepped up some and bought me some drinks and cuddled me and told me how much he likes me.


    And I am still CD-ing.

    Seeing another guy who I am not really feeliing it for but he is trying hard with me so I am still gonna CD him.

    And I still really want to have sex with someone (well Pub guy is the one I would most like to have sex with) but it is just feels so difficult for me right now… I mean if I do the guy will need to wear protection, and condoms are just so akward and awful feeling.

    But I will not take a risk of STIs, plus I am not on the pill! Don’t want to risk pregnancy either.

    And then there’s the oxytoxicin issue, not sure if I am strong enough to cope with feeling bonded to someone and not getting all fuzzed up and needy…

    I don’t relish feeling like that.

    But I don’t want to wait until I am married, or nearly married, to have sex again.

    I miss having sex.

    Esp good sex. I don’t think I’ve had good sex for years!!

    Pub guy and I were talking last night. And I decided to be flexible with my boundary and stay with him (no sex obviously) because it felt right and he has been stepping up more and more.

    He has a LONG way to go though.

    He was talking about how he is ‘falling’ for me. He was questioning me about other guys, and said he feels jealous when he hears of me out with another guy.

    Kept saying he really, really likes me, and was cuddly, affectionate and attentive a lot during the night when we were out.

    But he still has this secret girlfriend. He says he is breaking it off with her and its taking time.

    I am not asking him to do this. I am not asking him for anything at all.

    I feel bad for her.

    I don’t know her. I have seen him every weekend for about 6 months and I have never seen her. Apparently she does exist.

    I do feel bad for her and yet this is not my situation… its theirs.

    Still I feel very unsure about whether I could ever feel a future with him.

    So just staying in the present.

    Still not sure what it is with him… cus there is a lot of chemistry and I know that all the coaches agree too much chemistry tends not to be a good thing.

    And there are things about him and what he does that make me feel wary and rejected/upset sometimes.

    And yet there are other things that just make me feel good and melty. Such as when he stands up for me to a group of guys who were talking about me when I was not there. And he told them to shut up and that he likes me!

    Awwww ๐Ÿ™‚

    I dunno.

    I don’t need to do anything, except keep being a Siren and enjoying his, and other males’ attention!

    Oh and when we were cuddling things had shifted and instead of trying to get me to touch and caress him suddenly he is all about touching and caressing me.

    But there are other times when he doesn’t step up at all! In fact he can sometimes be very distant. And that would not feel good, if I were not CDing that is!

    So anyway I am feeling very loved right now and it feels good. And I have other attention coming my way too right now and I am falling in love with myself more and more.

    I am getting less shy of being around men when I am not looking ‘perfect’ these days to the point where I could be without make up and still feel pretty, or all hot and sweaty from the gym and still feel attractive. Mostly anyway, except when I get an attack of the NVs!

    This is a big step for me.

    Sometimes when I am cuddling up with a guy I will suddenly feel ‘ugly’ its weird. Nothing he has done, just all of a sudden I will think ‘my feet and legs are so ugly, or some such thing.

    I find it esp hard to love my skin bc I am very pale and have lots of moles and some freckles which I find it difficult to feel good about. And I have quite a few thread viens on my legs… and I see other girls bodies and they look so perfect and smooth skinned, and I feel insecure.

    Working on this!

    And when I get these thoughts when I am laying there, and that leads to ugly, not good enough feeling, then I feel panicky and I can visualize myself oozing out this icky vibe of ugliness that is immediately gonna repel the guy.

    I have tried silently riffing but has not really worked as yet. Also trying to throw out NVs.

    Suddenly vagina goes tight and I am in my head instead of body and feelings. Can’t drop thoughts like a lead ball.

    So there is some healing to do here.

    Its about loving myself completely.

    If I could only truly believe that it is entirely about vibe and not about superficial beauty at all that would feel like and amazing truth for me.

    And I am not quite there yet.

    But generally do love myself.

    Fake tan does help..

    Speaking of which….

    Hope all Sirens are good. I am off to apply some fake an whilst dancing around to my favourite songs!

    Love ya all.


  359.  #360T-Girl on May 28, 2011 at 7:49 am

    @ Boomer, that is kind of odd that he would mention that but you have to be careful, especially if it wasn’t a face-to-face conversation of how to take it. It is hard to tell if someone is joking or being sarcastic in an online conversation. But it still feels bad that he would mention something like that. Hopefully it is an isolated incident.

    I am having an issue in kind of the opposite direction. Poker Player is so generous with me – takes me to the nicest places and pays for everything. I’m sure at some point I should offer to pay? It feels weird not to…what is the sireny thing to do with paying the tab when you are in a relationship?

  360.  #361Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:50 am

    RE 357 Jackie I agree. I would keep it to look at my other relationships with men to see if there is a familiar pattern throughout with other men treating me this way in the past and my feeling the same way. I would also look at my parents pattern in their relationships and how they related to me to see if there is something there that I need to heal so that I do not attract that again.

  361.  #362T-Girl on May 28, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Venus @ 336 – so true!! If a man is into you, he is going to contact you. Not make you wonder. I’m loving your words of wisdom.

  362.  #363Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:53 am

    FW, thank you. I can always totally count on you to frame things simply and with clarity for me ๐Ÿ™‚ I feel such appreciation for you!

    I DO feel healthy. It’s easy to be more laissez-faire about money now that I have some. I want to keep my focus on abundance and needs being met and on meeting generous men and being generous myself with those I love. I have struggled financially for…well….my entire adult life off and on. I do not like it. I like this sense of abundance, but there is a nervous part of me that feels it could be fleeting…that feels a small measure of guilt and disbelief for finally being able to breathe financially, buy my kids things they want, be able to do nice things for people and give to charities, and send my daughter to college. Do I feel I do not deserve it? Just like I feel disbelief at having a good man be generous with me? Do I spoil good things with negative beliefs? I feel so afraid of spoiling what is good in my life by manifesting negativity with deep-held fears and beliefs! I prefer to keep these excellent improvements in my life!

    I feel so much appreciation for you women here. Thank you.

    I’m going to go all Daria here:

    Thank you, Boomer, for making a nice life for me and my kids.

    Thank you Boomer for working at a job you find tedious because you want to take care of me and my kids.

    Thank you, Boomer, for getting into shape and eating better so I have a healthier body and more energy.

    Thank you, Boomer, for treating me with generosity and fun experiences and beautiful food and luscious occasional glasses of wine lately.

    Thank you, Boomer, for trying hard to focus on the positive but for acknowledging and being kind to me about my occasional fears.

    Thank you, Boomer, for choosing better men to spend time with me. Thank you for no longer choosing mere “chemistry” as the chief filter for these men.

    Thank you, Boomer, for being good to me and being patient and accepting of me just the way I am.

  363.  #364T-Girl on May 28, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Jilly, so glad your day got better! I truly believe that discussing those hard issues in non-blamey, feeling messages truly builds intimacy and can only make things that much better. So good for you for opening up!

  364.  #365T-Girl on May 28, 2011 at 7:56 am

    Hope everything has a great holiday weekend! I will be taking my daughter and her friends to the movies later, and Poker Player has planned a lovely day trip for us which includes my daughter tomorrow. I am so excited for the weekend!

  365.  #366Venus on May 28, 2011 at 7:57 am

    T Girl , ahh thanks . It takes wisdom to recognise it !

  366.  #367Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Boomer this “Itโ€™s like HE needs to be the smart, funny one and felt any expression of my own personalty that was anything other than sweet/positive/sweetie-pie/treacly/girlie made him uncomfortable” suggests to me it is not a match, especially the part about the personality. I might be wrong but that is what I felt in my gut and I have experienced you as a very self-aware evolved individual whose gut seems to be almost always be right.

  367.  #368Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Jilly, did you tell HotPilot that you wanted him to do the sexual things that please you? I think you said you did…maybe it just took him the next try to process it and feel the courage to do it. I am always surprised when men are not really sexually confident because the stereotype is that it’s all they think about. But I have encountered more than a few who are absolutely clueless about how to please a woman, even when you tell them. It sounds like you were patient and communicative with him, which worked!

    PS: I looooove fingers too…and some men have found that odd.

  368.  #369Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:03 am

    RE 363 That felt great to read. Have you tried tappinig on your beliefs?

    Do you believe money is hard to come by?
    Do you believe money does not grow on trees?
    Do you believe you have enough to pay all your bills?
    Do you believe you have to work hard to get money?

  369.  #370Boomer on May 28, 2011 at 8:03 am

    FW, yeah, so NOT a match.

    It was another case of a man assuming I am certain things/certain ways/have certain traits he desires and not seeing the whole me.

    He focused on the real aspects of my personality that ARE sweet and girly (and my boobs, evidently), but he refused to see the quirky, irreverent, quick-witted, sharp me at all. And when that side of me came out…even just subtly…he was kind of appalled! LOL. It was weird. Most men at least appreciate that side of me, even if they don’t want to get into a relationship with “my type.” He was just…appalled is all I can say!

    Yikes. Gotta go get pretty for BoyScout!

    Love you all. Have a great weekend!

  370.  #371Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:10 am

    RE 348 Jilly I felt really warm reading that. I am happy that it turned out good for you, at least last night. I felt really weirded out by Daria’s comment as if she knew something was wrong with him because he would not initiate and did not know how to respond, just that it felt weird reading that. I hope for your relationship, he keeps doing this and learning what it takes to please you and wanting to do it.

  371.  #372Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:11 am

    RE 370 He might be operating out his fantasy for his ideal woman and that jolted him into the reality that you are a real human. Maybe why he got physically sick without even consciously realizing it.

  372.  #373Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:16 am

    RE 350 Boomer says “Is it wrong for me to want to have a man provide the same experience for me that I would provide myself?”

    What I am content with is a man wanting to do this because it makes him feel good about himself. It feels great to me to have that, it makes me feel loved and cherished, I revel in that kind of experience but I am not sure that I “want” or maybe even need it to make me happy. I would hate to give off that vibe as it might come across to him as a gold digger if he has those issues or like I want someone to rescue me. I just want him to feel my openness to receive that if he is willing to give it.

  373.  #374Venus on May 28, 2011 at 8:22 am

    re 369, re 363 Money ,love and all else we strive for is there when we KNOW we are worthy of it. Thinking it doesnt have the same energy. Your beliefs and thoughts are drawn back to you in the very moment you think and believe them. Always know you are worthy simply because you exist ! Always know that you, yourself are enough and enjoy the journey !

  374.  #375Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:25 am

    I have come to realize that it sucks the fun out of things for me when there is a sense of obligation. I have felt the sense of obligation around paying on a date to kind of even the score or the date debt so now I chose to do other things that I love, like sitting on the beach just soaking up the sun or listening to the crash of the waves on the rocks. I find very soothing.

  375.  #376Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Lilybelle your vibe tells how much you value yourself, what your intentions are and what you are looking for in your life. At least that is what I believe. The vibe speaks more volumes than the actual words.

  376.  #377tinque on May 28, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Boomer – “โ€œcheapโ€ or a penny pincher” The thing with this is that it’s not just about the money. This quality will translate into other areas, like giving love…


  377.  #378Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:23 am


    Are you saying my vibe is good or I need to work some more on it?

    I feel confused, FW. But, I know you, you’ll help me out here.


  378.  #379Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Oh I feel it is very good. That is what they are picking up on and I believe they knock themselves off the horse because they feel they are below your status. I say that because I feel one of mine stopped calling about 2 weeks ago because of that.

  379.  #380Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Boomer, why tell yourself a story that he is “cheap” or “not generous”? I had a convo with some guys about these issues recently – they were very open and honest about what it’s like to be a dating man these days, in this economy, etc. It’s hard! They Want to lavish women with gifts and dinners and trips… but they have kids in college and alimony and child support and debt and struggling businesses. They Want to be impressive to a woman, and they feel bad when they can’t be. He may have felt nervous that

  380.  #381Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 10:42 am

    that he was setting you up for a future disappointment by his present extravagance, and his fear slipped out in words.

  381.  #382Lilybelle on May 28, 2011 at 10:42 am


    Thank YOU! It feels so DAMN good seeing the “fruits of my labor”.

    I feel like a million bucks.

  382.  #383Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 10:47 am

    And there are a lot of women who Would be disappointed if the extravagance didn’t continue. One of these men says he doesn’t date as much as he would like to bc he doesn’t have a lot of extra money… he is the sole provider for three children (one in college)… has a good steady job but salary has not increased as much as inflation… and everything just costs so much. The money issue around dating is Very tough for a lot of very good and generous men.

  383.  #384Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 10:51 am

    I would have felt bad too, to hear a date say that out loud. Woulda felt guilty, uncomfortable, disappointed, annoyed… but those would be My triggers to work through, indicative of My issues. Sure it Feels like it’s about him, but is it? See how quick we can be to attribute our own interpretations on what he said? – “cheap” “not generous” What’s that about?

  384.  #385Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 10:58 am

    I think he just wants to be able to keep making you happy and he felt a little worried that he might not be able to do that if it takes a ton of money. “Can I make her happy?” – his fear. Not because of anything you did or said, but bc it’s just His fear, his issue, maybe based on past experiences or other things.

  385.  #386Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Hi SLV!!! So glad to see you here! <3

  386.  #387Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 11:37 am

    FW..thank you so much on post 371..I feel so loved reading that…Yes…yesterday going into the date I could feel my resistance towards Hotpilot and I was looking and questioning it to see if perhaps it is a way that I push away love (a concept that I’ve only considered since Rori) and I just told myself it’s time to relax and be in the moment and see what happens

    and I felt better and better and more relaxed and then it felt awesome…here we were doing things with my family and he fit right in..and I let him know how happy I felt about it

    and I feel free…I am in a place where I can express myself with him (good AND bad) and I’m not afraid of pushing him away…never had that before

    I gave him the option of going to a family (cousin) wedding reception or not and either way it would be ok…and after he went home this morning he texted and said he would love to come with me….YAY!!!!!!!!!!

  387.  #388Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Boomer…thanks for that little insight…I felt surprised because to me he is so goodlooking and I LOVE his body that I just expected him to be more experienced…oh well…lol…I do feel better after having talked last night…

    T-Girl I agree…it does build intimacy and trust and a safe place…wow ๐Ÿ™‚

    Tinque…I asked him if he liked it or not and if there was something he wanted to tell me…and he said that he does like it he just is never sure how long to do it for and he wants to switch it up and not always do the same thing and he doesn’t want to take away from the experience of having sex ….lol…and he’s saying it so honestly and vulnerably it makes me melt…I made sure to express that it can ONLY enhance the sex ๐Ÿ™‚

  388.  #389Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 11:50 am

    RE 387 Absolutely lovely. Isn’t it amazing though how we go around so much of our lives unconscious or at least not consciously making a decision about how we are being and what we want to create.

  389.  #390Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 11:52 am

    RE 388 I feel blown away by that note to Tinque. I feel so happy for you aaahhh

  390.  #391tinque on May 28, 2011 at 11:54 am

    yay, Jilly, yay!!!


  391.  #392Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 11:55 am

    I got a free Communication Weekend offer from eHarmony. Don’t know if I am interested yet but just wanted to share it just in case it is something special they are doing for the weekend and someone else is interested.

  392.  #393tinque on May 28, 2011 at 11:56 am

    I want to clarify about the money issue. there is a big difference in being cheap or miserly and watching the money because there is less at this time.

    And you will know the difference; you will feel the difference in other ways.


  393.  #394Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Daria…273… It seems only natural that you could hope for it not to work out with Hotpilot because I’m not following the “rules”….for some reason it really triggers you

    this feels triggering to me…feels like religion…

    I’m not doing it “right” so how can it work out?

    that’s the reason I left my religion…I feel happier believing that there is more than ONE way to happiness

    and I feel sure that there are people within that religion who hope that it doesn’t “work” for me and if something “bad” happens it’s because I’m not following the “PLAN”..

    yuck…that feels so icky and controlling to me…
    makes me feel tight and vomiting and I can’t get away fast enough

  394.  #395Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Jilly – it feels uncomfortable reading your post, i feel kinda assumed about

    ive noticed people talking to me and perceiving me as being about “following the rules” and i feel

    invisible and ungot

    i feel like i am not really being seen here and im small and unheard and no one is really paying attention to me but rather assinging me this “role” that they see in me

    i feel really upset about that ๐Ÿ™

    i dont want to read about what anyone thinks about me if it’s not something that feels good to me

    i had a hunch that there was an “issue” hotpilot man had about sex when you were posting about him not pushing for sex in the early part of dating – i had a similar situation come up with a man

    it felt exciting when my perception seemed to fill out, i feel like i noticed something that may be important for me – and maybe others, if not for you, then forgive me for using your situation to work out my stuff

  395.  #396Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    mirror q:

    does it seem only natural to YOU that YOU would hope it doesn’t work out with hotpilot because you’re not following ‘rules’?

    i feel unsure if this is what’s going on on my part

    i do feel super hesitation – based on what i’ve read so far – on my part to support you in being exclusive with hotpilot

    that doesnt mean that later, as things change, and as i read in your posts that you are firmly in the relationship you want, i wouldnt support it “working out”

  396.  #397Jilly on May 28, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Daria…it felt uncomfortable for me to read your post about me too…

    and..”i dont want to read about what anyone thinks about me if itโ€™s not something that feels good to me”

    I feel the same way about this

    I feel happy that you responded to my post right away..I don’t want to have any bad feelings toward you…and I just checked and I honestly don’t…I do feel judged by you that I’m not doing it the “right” way

    It would feel good to have your support… ๐Ÿ™‚

  397.  #398Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    FW – i feel bad to hear you felt weirded out by my comment and i felt like im having some a kind of label pasted over my real me like a piece of ductape –

    “when i read this part as if she knew something was wrong with him because he would not initiate”

    i did have a flash that something might be wrong based on a situation in the past i had with a guy who did not initiate when i said “i want to have sex with you,” he seemed insecure about sex in other ways when we did have it

    that’s what got triggered for me reading about jilly’s situation

    and im really feeling fed up with getting labeled.

    it feels scary to share how i feel, when i feel judgemental of that part of me – like in this case i felt bad about myself even Having that reaction –

    i am revealing parts of me i feel ashamed about

    and it would feel really good to have some support that its ok for me to show the ugly parts of me

    i feel distant and defensive and i dont want to be labeled as the “bad guy” like i have bad intentions. that doesnt feel good

  398.  #399Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    flower child – BIG HUGS! i feel so cared about in your post and i feel moved! aww thank you so much!

    and its ok, really it helps me to process sometimes, i knew your intent was good

    thank you for caring about me and for sharing about you

    i feel excited to relate that you are an only child too

    i love the praise for me that i am learning stuff at DUI class and that you could learn from me that makes me feel SO smart and GOOD about myself thank you!!!

    I feel so much compassion and love from you FlowerChild Goddess ๐Ÿ™‚

  399.  #400Turquoise3 on May 28, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Hey Boomer, I just recently had this conversation with a guy friend, and it sounds like men feel used a lot with online dating. He explained that many women just seem to want a dinner out, the date ends with a peck, and that is it. I have often read that men want respect more than anything. And while they want to plan these big dates, it is expensive. I had a first date once who took me to a hockey game and then out to an expensive wine bar. It was easily a $250 date. If he did that once a week… that is a grand for 4 dates! He was new to dating and told me also how expensive things are.

    I hate the correlation between dating and prostitution, but it seems like guys are glad to spend the money if they know they will get laid. That essentially they are paying for sex. My conversation with my guy friend really made me feel that way because he kept relating spending all this money on dates, and then not receiving intimacy in return.

    In my opinion, big and expensive dates are great in a relationship, but within the first few, it can cause concern for both parties. While we are impressed and enjoying the generosity, they often feel it’s expected and give because they think they should. I’d rather a boyfriend take me to a concert or a game than someone I barely know. I try to keep the first few dates simple. Dinner, a drink, etc.

    And I agree, we spend a lot of money to look good, on our families, for childcare, gas, etc. but I don’t want to feel like having them pay for everything, that I owe something in return. I don’t know that I agree I deserve an extravagant date or gifts, just because I’m the woman. That is something I have to work through myself. Something I have thought about a lot. It was really great because Tom always paid, he expected to, wouldn’t let me pay when I offered…. but he made decent money and didn’t ever bring it up or complain about it. But, there were times he didn’t ask to see me, and I think it was because he couldn’t afford it. I would have been happy getting a pizza or cooking at my house and watching a movie with him, than not seeing him at all… but I think he felt I expected these bigger dates because that was how he’d treated me.

    I don’t know… biggest concern to me is that they sometimes equate paying for dates with receiving sex. I don’t like that.

  400.  #401Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Queenbee – I would tweak to make it shorter, and drop explaining except for quick context, and add more feeling in there instead

    Dear J,

    I feel deeply weird not hearing back from you to confirm or cancel, re. meeting this week. I donโ€™t want to sound harsh, but this feels bad to me. I feel unimportant and like my time is not important and I donโ€™t like it. I donโ€™t want to have this experience again.


    YOU are doing GREAT!!!

    can you add more feeling? how did it feel bad maybe?

    i started feeling anxious when it got close to that time and i felt embarassed to call you, and i wound up feeling really humiliated not to hear from you at all when i was feeling so excited to see you ๐Ÿ™

    I dont want to feel this way with you! I’m feeling unimportant and i don’t like it…

    what do you think?

  401.  #402Daria on May 28, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    oh Turquise, i feel worried to come off pushy here, and i really feel compelled to say

    i am so rooting for you to put your toe (and i know you already have more than a toe, im sorry) EFF it… put BOTH feet into

    feeling you absolutely Deserve gifts, romance, extravagant dates, white horses and carriages, men falling at your feet to worhsip you, the good men who WANT to give to you and will even reassure you when you tell them you are feeling insecure and obligated – just because you are a woman, because you DO!

    we all DO!!

    love Daria

  402.  #403Daria on May 28, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    ella – your white skin with moles and the blue lines… sound SO LOVELY to me when you describe it!

    I want to caress you and I am a woman!!

    Guys must want to eat you up!

  403.  #404Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    The guys I talked to do Not expect sex in return for expensive dates. They want to treat a woman as generously as they are able just bc they are gentlemen who enjoy and respect their dates. Sex is not even in the money equation for them. The only thing that matters is that they are not spending more than they can afford in order to pursue and make her happy – and it matters that she seems Grateful rather than Entitled – which is a huge teaching of Rori’s (gratitude).

  404.  #405Elizabeth on May 28, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Jilly, sent this to you over on the newest thread

    hello Jilly!!

    I saw your shout-out to me. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Itโ€™s so great to hear from you, and to hear you are happy with how things are going with your guy!

    It sounds like you are very ready to move into
    a new form of right livelihood for yourself!

    What is the one thing that you would love to spend a majority of your time doing, without even getting paid for it? wellโ€ฆ.aside from *that* ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Determining this passion is a good start, and then you can use LOA to get it going!


  405.  #406Daria on May 28, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Rivergirl – i feel intrigued by your suggestions to me, and yet i feel a bit wary…

    i get a sense that this advice is meant to ‘change’ me…. in a way im not sure i want to be changed…

    is this about the sadness you sense in me?

    sometimes i can feel sad very deeply, and sometimes i feel awful and helpless, and

    i want to improve my life and make it more comfortable and


    ๐Ÿ™ i feel a bit unseen with that, and i thank you for caring about me and taking the time to think about me and give me acknowledgement for the work i do for myself

    and the truth is, i do this because it feels so GOOD, because i’m taking care of me and i also enjoy it, i feel fascinated and absorbed by transforming myself

    i dont want to take a break

    and i do use my boy energy to nurture myself, as best i can

    and playing with kids would feel fun, if that’s what i felt like doing, but not because i want to change something about the way i am working…

    is there something that is triggering you in the way i’m working here?

    i’m not sure why you are suggesting this to me…

  406.  #407jackie on May 28, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Thank you for that advice ladies, I sort of knew the advice would be not to send it ๐Ÿ™‚
    But I would like to ask for a bit of clarification on . Feminine womans advice…’see if there is a familiar pattern throughout with other men treating me this way in the past and my feeling the same way. I would also look at my parents pattern in their relationships and how they related to me to see if there is something there that I need to heal so that I do not attract that again’

    This man has handled me very differently from previous men – who tried to force me into accepting them because they wanted me – at the time it felt passionate and romantic, but i know now a man doesnt love you if he doesnt know you… this man has good reason to be cautious and take it slow, his last partner was jealous of his 9 year old daughter and resented her, which affected his child. he wants to be very careful he is with someone who will be a good thing in her life too. I respect that. I have never been in a relationship with a man who takes things so slowly and cautiously, he didnt kiss me on the mouth for 6 weeks – but showed affection by bringing me little gifts, books, being attentive and always paying. I think he has been very badly hurt in the past and I instinctively tried to let him set pace – but it stopped and started a lot… and recently he implied I was a bit quiet for him; but it was because I have never felt on safe ground. My parents split when I was 13, my dad remarried and had 3 kids all still together and very happy, I love my dad, but see him rarely. I did miss him desperately growing up, and it is one of the things I respect about this man, he recognises how important he is in his daughters life. I do feel he has made it hard to get close to him, but I also think I shut down a bit after one of his disappearing acts!

  407.  #408Elizabeth on May 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    393: tinque says:

    “I want to clarify about the money issue. there is a big difference in being cheap or miserly and watching the money because there is less at this time.

    And you will know the difference; you will feel the difference in other ways.”


    Very true, in my experience.
    I am fine with not being wined and dined
    and being entertained by having money
    spent on me, when the guy is trying to be
    responsible with money,
    and I don’t feel that it is a reflection on my
    own value.

    One time, the last bf took me out to a nice sit down dinner.
    We had a great time and I showed my appreciation
    in a good way. I didn’t act like I didn’t
    deserve it or anything doormatty, nor did I act
    entitled to it.

    And then he had to go and ruin it all by
    saying ‘wow that was a lot of money to spend,
    that’s not going to happen again anytime soon’

    That didn’t sit well with me at all, even if he didn’t mean it to be insulting.

    The feeling behind it, and many, many instances confirmed that the guy is in fact cheap and miserly
    in many other ways.

    I feel so great that I have completely let this man go!
    and still benefit from all the good stuff that came out of it and everything I learned!

    Creating the distance to really see things for what they are works wonders!


  408.  #409Turquoise3 on May 28, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Daria, Thanks and it does feel great to receive expensive dates and presents, but I am looking for more than a man who wants to impress me. I want a man who does those things because they love me.

    My ex husband spoiled me like crazy, flowers, thousands of dollars worth of jewelry, huge engagement ring, high end cameras, trips, and my first car was a BMW Z3 convertible. We were young, but he always always made me feel special with his gifts. He liked expensive things, and loved giving them to me. What he didn’t give me was much time. I still have the jewelry, but not the husband. I wish he’d have been more giving of himself too.

    Maybe in California you meet a lot of weathy men, but in my city, most guys my age are paying alimony, child support, school tuition, activity fees, and work middle class jobs. I don’t want to rule out good men who can’t afford expensive dates all the time. I wouldn’t want a man to rule me out because I now drive a minivan, and rent my house. There are a lot of ways to make someone feel special, and sometimes the small things are even better. I’m looking for the whole picture in someone, not their wallet size. If I limited myself to men who could spend a lot of money on me, I’d have had about 5 dates in the last 5 years! lol.

    Do you only date men who you think can give you nice things?

  409.  #410Elizabeth on May 28, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    404: Lucy says:

    “… matters that she seems Grateful rather than Entitled โ€“ which is a huge teaching of Roriโ€™s (gratitude).”

    Yes, very much so. Grateful but not entitled.
    Pleasantly surprised and delighted but not expecting.

    Included in being grateful means NOT saying something such as, “Oh you shouldn’t have!” .

    Sirens never have difficulty or feel awkward taking a compliment or receiving anything from a man.

    A simple heartfelt “Thank you” suffices.

    When I am complimented on my looks or my work, I don’t start saying, “yeah, but….”.


  410.  #411Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    I Love expressing gratitude, delight, pleasure, joy to a man when he gives to me – no matter how small or large his offering. And they love to hear that they have made me happy. ๐Ÿ™‚

  411.  #412Turquoise3 on May 28, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Lucy, glad you are talking to more gentlemanly type guys. Guys my age seem to think about sex all the time. Which, is normal…. but I have heard from more than one guy that they were frustrated that they spent all this money on a date and then didn’t get anything out of it. I’ve also heard from guys who said they felt like all the girl wanted was a free dinner. I didn’t go out with these guys on a second date either, based on their personality and things they said…. but maybe they aren’t realizing it and just feel used.

  412.  #413Daria on May 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Turquoise – Daria, Thanks and it does feel great to receive expensive dates and presents, but I am looking for more than a man who wants to impress me. I want a man who does those things because they love me.

    Absolutely, this is what I want for you too!

    I’m sorry if that didn’t come across clearly in my last post.

    I want to encourage you to know that you deserve love, dates, chivalrous treatment, and men who Want to do those things just because you are a woman.

    We all do. And… This is a good thing!

    It doesn’t mean men are less than! Theyre just different.

    They’re healthy self thrives on feeling… Masculine.

    And they get to feel that way when they’re giving to us, and being received and appreciated.

  413.  #414Femininewoman on May 28, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    RE 407 Jackie it seems to me that you are attracting someone to play out the same type of relationship you had with your dad. You are attracted to him maybe to replace him for the little girl inside you who missed her dad. Read what you wrote again. It seems you are making excuses for him. This “and recently he implied I was a bit quiet for him” I have information from a coach who suggests that guys do this when they want to stall about moving the relationship to another level. This is a guy excuse. However, he might be a mirror reflecting back yourself to you so you can see the areas of your life that needs healing or issues you could possibly address. Him giving you gifts makes me want to assume that it would be something that would be important to him to feel loved. It seems you might value physical touch and quality time more and might end up feeling unloved in the long run if he keeps disappearing and creating emotional distance between you two. Reading about your parents I sense that you might be afraid of abandonment and intimacy especially because you say “I have never felt on safe ground”. I would explore these things for myself and be willing to express that. Shutting down most likely would be part of your defense stress mechanism because you are still hurting from missing your father so desparately. I heard recently that neurons in the brain for pain and pleasure are right next to each other so your unconscious mind might be seeking to create the same scenario from childhood that you had around your daddy issues. These are just my impressions based on things I have learnt since I came here and started to read about relationships. I have spent a lot of time getting to know myself intimately and things about my family of origin. I have paid attention to relationships of people around me and I have to say it is well worth it. I don’t know how far you are on your journey but I believe you would be misguided if you believe that it is a quick fix. It is a process that is worthwhile. I believe that it is in the crucible of a relationship that we come face to face with ourselves. I also believe that things from our past that we have long buried comes up in relationships so I believe in becoming intimate with oneself. Give yourself as much love as possible so your issues can come up for you before someone else starts telling you about them and triggering your fright/flight response. If you haven’t yet I would encourage encourage you to spend as much time as possible reading past articles it helped me a lot when I first got here.

  414.  #415RiverGirl on May 28, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    @ 406

    Daria, yes, my post was about the sadness I sense in you sometimes but was not at all about trying to โ€˜change youโ€™ or the way you work here. The fact that I am noticing the sadness IS probably a mirror for me though I wouldnโ€™t necessarily say it was triggering me. (In my mind triggering is about uncomfortable feelings and I wasnโ€™t feeling anything uncomfortable.)

    I had just read your post 270 and 281 when I wrote and I recognised a little of myself from a few years ago. It seemed like you were crying out for help and that you felt unheard. Only you can know if that is accurate but that is how it seemed to me. It brought out my boy energy, my need to nuture.

    My suggestions were just things that worked
    for me when I was in that place and I just wanted to share them as perhaps something which might be helpful for you sometimes. You are doing so well and your willingness to be totally open and vulnerable on here makes the โ€œmothering typesโ€ (yeah, OK , me ๐Ÿ™‚ ) want to reach out and help you do that.

  415.  #416Lucy on May 28, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Camile, these guys think about sex a lot too – and want it. They just don’t feel entitled to it based on buying a woman a nice dinner, etc. ๐Ÿ™‚ They completely want to wait til the time feels right for both partners. I feel very blessed to be attracting some men with tremendous character right now, who are also sensuous and masculine. Yay!

  416.  #417Venus on May 28, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Femininewoman , living an authentic life does not include blame or judgement. We are solely responsible for our own lives, good or bad. Daddy issues are just that, they are daddys issues and not to be confused or imparted on another being. Its very important to check our own feelings before we give out advice. It may help you in the future to use feeling messages to support your fellow sirens and leave the coaching to the coaches.

  417.  #418jackie on May 29, 2011 at 1:33 am

    FW – to be fair to you, It felt to me that you do have a bit of a point. My dad was loving but absent, and my sons father was absent but not loving, I have pragmatic and emotional views on bad parents. I have had 3 marriages(!) and one other long term relationship, and they have been all different types of men. As I became a single parent when my son was 2 I wanted to be with men who I thought would be a good male role model to my son – (to my first husband at 18) – My last husband was an excellent father to his own son, but was an angry controlling partner. He was an extremely charming man who swept me off my feet – ‘fell in love’ with me very quickly, and I moved my then teenage son and I 100s of miles to be with him. He did love me in his own way, still does, but has lots of issues with alcohol, gambling, anger. But where FW has a point, this new man is the father of a daughter. It feels she could be right about this, to meet a man who is commited to being a strong loving permanent feature in her life – i was going to have a high opinion of him right off. And the fact he hasn’t tried to sweep me off my feet and has steadily and quietly tried to work out what makes me tick was very disconcerting but refreshing. I had a sense that it was nearly over the last couple of weeks, just another cooling off, and I was resigned to it, on here looking to help myself heal. Then a few days ago I had a swollen calf, took myself to the emergency docs, who was arranging a letter for me to take to A&E (ED) – I collapsed, unconcious, very unwell – suspected clot in my lung. 999 ambulance and all. The girl in reception used my recent call list to find people to inform, and called my man. He could hear them working on me in the background, and got a terrible fright. He had his wee girl, so couldnt come, but kept in touch by txt and came to see me next night, and then closed his business for a few hours and drove the forty mile round trip to collect me when I got home- it would have cost me ten quid in a taxi – I know any decent human being would do that, but a man intent on ending a relationship might realise it was not the best thing to do… Maybe I am clutching at straws. His gifts aren’t bought gifts or expensive, they are things he knows I would like because he has paid attention to me, books off his own shelf, articles out of newspapers, a wee miniature of Malt whisky, just sweet and attentive. I love the gentle tenderness of it, and when we did get past his lovely shyness and he stayed over, it was perfect, and I have plenty to compare. I do feel he is possibly not sure I am ready as I have found it very hard to open up. FW you are right, physical touch and sex is very important to me – and he is not tactile – he rarely touches me before we go to bed, but he is very tender and affectionate in bed, I woke the last time he stayed and he was still holding my hand. A few months ago I gently asked if he could be a bit more in touch as it made me feel unsure and I told him I really liked him, but was glad there was no pressure – I had had a glass of wine and I let a couple of tears out as I felt it excruciating to put him on the spot – and he said ‘theres a wee sensitive side I havent seen before’ – I am extremely passionate and sensitive person and I was shocked I wsn’t expressing that – but I have still struggled to open up as he has continued to periodically put distance between us.I see him on average every 10 days, I find it hard to build intimacy with that gap. I think he could be very good for me though – teach me to take my time, but he has good reason to be sure he is taking on someone who is emotionally ready – maybe he has it right, and he senses my fragility…. but Venus – thank you for trying to balance that, and for reminding us to use feeling messages. I love this palace – it feels safe and nurturing and agenda free xx

  418.  #419jackie on May 29, 2011 at 2:13 am

    Oh and rather than buy him gifts back – he is vegetarian, (i am not_ I have cooked a few times and have made him some lovely meals, when we go out he pays for the meal, drinks, I pay for the cinema – he always brings wine to mine, I always have his favourite beers in, so I have tried to follow his lead, but I have got two left feet I think! I will be so sad if I have sabotaged this by not being authentic- trying not to lead, trying to hold back and lean back, means I have been overthinking, and it has come out all wrong – like I am uncomfortable around him. I really feel I have little option now other than to try to express some of that. Maybe acknowledge that I have been trying to respect his pace and not react in a negative way to his gaps but it has meant I have got a bit uncertain and shy around him, unsure that his heart is in it. It might clear the air – is that not a better option than letting him fade out of my life? I would worry it is leaning forward – but it is also being authentic, and showing vulnerability, stating some boundaries?

  419.  #420jackie on May 29, 2011 at 2:15 am

    Thank you so much for listening to me and trying to guide me – it feels so good to have somewher to bring this.

  420.  #421Venus on May 29, 2011 at 6:08 am

    Jackie, Its all a matter of knowing you are worthy of having the love and respect you desire. I came here about three years ago a complete mess! If not for Rori and Daria Id be in the same place. Miserable and alone. I came here to fix myself for a man. I thought there was something wrong with me. It wasnt long before I realised that I had to fix me for me! I had to turn things around and start feeling . I learned to love myself, my feelings and above all my mistakes. I learned not to judge those who triggered me and to be greatful for the experience. I learned to manage my open heart and to not be afraid. I learned i have a voice and i am heard. Above all I know now that i am OK. I am enough . I am going to the next level. The calm and peace of knowing who you are and leaving limiting beliefs behind has brought very much into my life. When that shift is made the tension is gone. There is no need to fix or fight. It just is .

  421.  #422Femininewoman on May 29, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Jackie thank you for sharing your story. My belief is that in looking at our history we have power to change our lives. That helps us to acknowledge what we have created and why we might have created it so we can heal and create something else, maybe even better. We also get to understand ourselves so we can identify how we are feeling and forgive ourselves where necessary. In so doing we give ourselves the peace we so crave. I hope you continue reading here and find information to help you with your situation.

  422.  #423jackie on May 29, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Venus – that is key for me- i don’t feel worthy of his attention I don’t think, I have made some huge mistakes that resulted in some serious unhappiness for my son, and he is still resentful, and I feel excruciating guilt. I don’t feel worthy somewhere inside, and when i meet a man who seems to have self respect and boundaries, and isnt wowed by my pretty face and brightness – i don’t think I deserve him. I feel I was destined to get hurt this time, because I think he is more ‘together’ than I am. I think I have always taken men who seemed to feel lucky to have me – but they ended up resenting me and trying to bring me down. Now I am trying to reach for something better, I am struggling with my guilt and self worth. I am the most successful of my family, there are lots of alcohol and drugs issues around me – of which I have none – and I feel I cant ask a good decent man to be part of that – though I have tried my best in life. Do any other sirens relate to that? I love my family, and I understand their issues. But people who have lived a more controlled and less chaotic life might run a mile…

  423.  #424Daria on May 30, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Venus – wow thank you for acknowledging me that way. I feel moved I feel like crying

  424.  #425Brenda on May 30, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Happy Me-More-ial Day!

  425.  #426kaitlyn on May 31, 2011 at 12:58 am


    “he paused and then said that it was very expensive and that he hopes thatโ€™s not the expectation every time we see each otherโ€ฆ.he canโ€™t afford that!”

    A bf of mine long ago said that. My response: “babe, i had an amazing evening. but look, i could eat peanut butter sandwiches in the gutter with you and still feel like the luckiest girl alive.” That seemed to make him feel happy.

  426.  #427Rail on June 13, 2011 at 5:57 am

    So we made plans for last Wednesday. he was going to drive out to me. When i asked him on Wednesday what we were doing, he seemed to have forgotten we had plans but said i could come over and we could make it a movie night because he didnt get his check and had been working long hours.

    I said, “that doesnt feel very exciting to me. I haven’t seen you in a while and I was looking forward to doing something fun. What do you think?” he said “how about Friday?” I said that doesn’t work for me, I’m leaving town. Then he apologized and said his accountant didn’t get him the check and he was mad at him but he was sorry and hoped I wasn’t mad at him. I said “really, I’m not mad. I would feel better seeing you when your affairs are in order and you’re happy”. He said he was happy and I could still come over. I said no thanks.

    So I’m out of town and I get a “hi sweetheart” text that i didnt respond to. I called him back the next evening and he didnt respond. The next day he texts me again saying hello. I text “hey what happened to you last night? Im sure you saw i called” then i said “i like it when you play hard to get, keeps me wondering”. He wrote back “It does lol you’re so funny .. u would. Like that. Lol crazy..I need to do you … this no sex thing is driving me.insane ..LOL fyi:-). ๐Ÿ™‚ ”

    Mind you, we haven’t seen each other since the first time we had sex and he got weird and said that he had a wall up and had been hurt. So I left his house and didn’t speak to him for about 3 weeks. He apologized during that time but I never responded. I finally spoke to him and told him I understand he was scared and asked him what he wants. He said he wanted to date and have a girlfriend and then get married. I said I could date him again, but not the flaky guy he had become. He said he needed to think about it because he just took on a new business venture that was taking his time and he wanted to make sure he could do this. I said ok. That was a month ago.

    So here we are and still occasional texts, rare phone calls. After that sex text, I told him that I would be lying if I said I didn’t think about that first night alot, but it makes me feel sad. He said he feels sad too. I said why? He said because of how he acted. So we got to “texting” and I used the feeling statements.

    He said he hates being scared an that he thinks of himself coming home to me. I told him “I know you’re scared, I’m scared too so I get it. I’m just starting to feel unimportant to you and like you don’t value or consider my feelings and that doesn’t feel good”. He said “Trust me I do.. and I picture us together all the time ..crazy ๐Ÿ™‚ lol” so I said

    So basically after some back and forth, I said I just felt yucky and duped after the last time, what do you think? He said “I need to be ready again to be with you..I can feel something again for u..don’t really know wat it means but its there lol”

    He says he needs cuddle time/sex and not just having fun. That’s important to him. I said we need to compromise because I don’t have the best memory of our last cuddle time. Back/forth…ended ok but now I haven’t heard from him in two days. I’m not reaching out. But what to do? Is he lying to have sex?

  427.  #428Rail on June 13, 2011 at 5:59 am

    So we made plans for last Wednesday. he was going to drive out to me. When i asked him on Wednesday what we were doing, he seemed to have forgotten we had plans but said i could come over and we could make it a movie night because he didnt get his check and had been working long hours.

    I said, “that doesnt feel very exciting to me. I haven’t seen you in a while and I was looking forward to doing something fun. What do you think?” he said “how about Friday?” I said that doesn’t work for me, I’m leaving town. Then he apologized and said his accountant didn’t get him the check and he was mad at him but he was sorry and hoped I wasn’t mad at him. I said “really, I’m not mad. I would feel better seeing you when your affairs are in order and you’re happy”. He said he was happy and I could still come over. I said no thanks.

    So I’m out of town and I get a “hi sweetheart” text that i didnt respond to. I called him back the next evening and he didnt respond. The next day he texts me again saying hello. I text “hey what happened to you last night? Im sure you saw i called” then i said “i like it when you play hard to get, keeps me wondering”. He wrote back “It does lol you’re so funny .. u would. Like that. Lol crazy..I need to do you … this no sex thing is driving me.insane ..LOL fyi:-). ๐Ÿ™‚ ”

    Mind you, we haven’t seen each other since the first time we had sex and he got weird and said that he had a wall up and had been hurt. So I left his house and didn’t speak to him for about 3 weeks. He apologized during that time but I never responded. I finally spoke to him and told him I understand he was scared and asked him what he wants. He said he wanted to date and have a girlfriend and then get married. I said I could date him again, but not the flaky guy he had become. He said he needed to think about it because he just took on a new business venture that was taking his time and he wanted to make sure he could do this. I said ok. That was a month ago.

    So here we are and still occasional texts, rare phone calls. After that sex text, I told him that I would be lying if I said I didn’t think about that first night alot, but it makes me feel sad. He said he feels sad too. I said why? He said because of how he acted. So we got to “texting” and I used the feeling statements.

    He said he hates being scared an that he thinks of himself coming home to me. I told him “I know you’re scared, I’m scared too so I get it. I’m just starting to feel unimportant to you and like you don’t value or consider my feelings and that doesn’t feel good”. He said “Trust me I do.. and I picture us together all the time ..crazy ๐Ÿ™‚ lol” so I said

    So basically after some back and forth, I said I just felt yucky and duped after the last time, what do you think? He said “I need to be ready again to be with you..I can feel something again for u..don’t really know wat it means but its there lol”

    He says he needs cuddle time/sex and not just having fun. That’s important to him. I said we need to compromise because I don’t have the best memory of our last cuddle time. Back/forth…ended ok but now I haven’t heard from him in two days. I’m not reaching out. But what to do? Is he lying to have sex?