So Many Choices For Love

Untitled design (14)

A comment by Ella here (#351) profoundly affected me, and I wanted to jump off from it.

Every moment there’s a new choice to be made. To eat that or not eat that. To go to the movie or stay home and read. Go to bed or watch television. Buy This or That. Tell the truth or put up a “front.”

Go or stay.

Talk to that man or run away.

Be present or think about something.

And with all these choices, all these decisions to be made in the moment and showing up every single second we’re alive…no wonder it begins to feel overwhelming.

We blame ourselves for everything that doesn’t work out perfectly in the moment, and for things that don’t work out the way we want even over the short term (gaining back weight from the food choices we make over a month).

We hold ourselves responsible, yet we don’t really want to make these “good” choices every moment. So what is the solution?

We try to control everything else.

For most of us – the way out of overwhelm is to try to control things.

Things that are NOT the things we KNOW we CAN control!

We feel afraid to control what we eat, where we go, what we say, what we do – and so we try to control what HE does and says, and we try to control the OUTCOMES of things.

Because – for me, anyway – the worst of it all is feeling responsible for the outcome.Β  And if HE did it – it’s not our “fault.”

And yet – no matter what happens – we STILL make it our fault!

We put ourselves into this horrible bind.

Here’s how I suggest baby-stepping yourself out of all of this.

Nothing is your fault. Nothing.

And yet, everything that is within your ability to control is yours to control. Yours to maintain. Yours to choose.

What you don’t get to choose or control is how it turns out.

Yes, you can eat right and exercise….and you may tip the scale and get into a size smaller clothes.

But that doesn’t mean other parts of your life will automatically change the way you WANT them to change!

What it does guarantee is that things will change.

Only – those changes just bring more choices – more moments where you get to “own” what you do – even what you THINK.

So – the only way out of this web – where one choice leads to more new choices and more possibility of overwhelm and self-blame is to make a very firm dividing line between OWNING your CHOICES – and BLAME.

Most of us have, at our core, a well of “shame” that colors everything in our lives.Β  That makes us blame ourselves for outcomes in a way that paralyzes us when we simply try to make a choice.

For example – if we don’t eat a puff pastry because we want to lose weight and be healthy and feel better – then we automatically think ahead to the outcome and how things will be different. When we do that, we experience all the habitual emotions around wanting anything GOOD for ourselves – shame.

Our inner “mean girls” start to kick up and attack us and tell us nasty things about what we can and can’t have, and pretty soon we’re at war with ourselves.Β  Over a piece of grain and sugar. Over the phone call or text we made. Over the way we got tense and shut down when a man talked to us.

Inside ourselves there are SO many “opinions.” (Which is why I so much want us to have NO opinions here…and instead share emotions and be the voices that tell each other about hope, and owning choices and CROWD OUT the voices of blame and shame with the voice of love, acceptance, compassion, forgiveness, sharing and faith in ourselves.

Safety is worth creating. Not just safety for OTHERS (what we’re working to do here) – but safety for OURSELVES in our own heads and and hearts!

Safety with our many, many voices – even the ones that shout at us and scream at us and put us down.

As soon as we can embrace, love, honor and take care of all the voices our heads and bodies produce – we will find ourselves embraced.

So – don’t get mad at your shame or blame.

Just tell it thank you and that YOU are in charge of YOU and will be making “this” choice now that feels better in this moment.

And – here’s what’s important – You tell that part or voice that will be making this choice now that feels better ((and when you start to experience that choosing the bit of chicken actually feels better than choosing the puff pastry, and that choosing to tell the truth feels better than “acting” any way at all, and that choosing to blame no one, not even him, for an outcome (or for the way you feel) feels better than finding someone to blame – everything will shift for you)), and that the part or voice that’s yelling at you for attention will always get your LOVE (and will always get heard), but thatΒ  it doesn’t get to run things.

Try this, and see if it all gets easier!

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Chris on May 9, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Thank you for this article. You wrote it at exactly the right time. I needed this. πŸ™‚

  2.  #2Lilybelle on May 9, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Excellent, Rori.

  3.  #3Leo on May 9, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Thanks, Rori!

    It feels so great right now to read this.
    I feel a lot of hope right now!
    I will definitely work on this!


  4.  #4Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Creating safety with our own voices in our heads and hearts. I like that concept. I like to feel safe. I like to create safety for others around me. By doing this I hope to inspire others to do the same.

  5.  #5Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 9:08 am

    This “choosing to blame no one, not even him, for an outcome (or for the way you feel) feels better than finding someone to blame” feels like taking responsibility for what I create in my life. I love the feeling of serenity and harmony. I love to look at the pictures of children and their faces in real life because they makes me feel alive. I like to feel love coming towards me in the form of smiles from other people. Yesterday I felt love from a man at church who keeps trying to emotinally connect with me. Today I felt love from my neighbor and she checked in with me to see how was my mother’s day. I love the feeling of connection that comes with interacting with other human beings. I like the feeling of safety to comes to me when I consciously acknowledge that I can create harmonious relationships and I am in control of my reality.

  6.  #6Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Looks like it was Ella’s 352 that ends with feeling sorry for myself. So many times I go there especially with weight and choosing to eat rubbish rather than healthy things. I have realized that now I am conscious to notice my thinking and how it makes me feel. Sometimes I wish I could get it all right but then would that make life boring because I would not have the challenge any more? Feeling my way around life, what feels good and what I should be doing sometimes get confusing and leaves me feeling like a dog chasing it’s tail. I feel happy though for the option of choosing.

  7.  #7Christine on May 9, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Dear Rori, or anyone who can help. I recently read your e-book twice. I am doing the exercises. My problem is not mentioned in your book. I was in an 18 yr relationship that he ended on Valentines day over the phone. According to your book I did push him into another womans arms. He never cheated but met her last summer and began dating after we broke up. I went 10 weeks without talking to him, finally got the nerve to text him. I went to his house 6 days ago at which time he told me about her. We have been texting ever since. He is only comforting me and tells me there is no chance for us. They have been together for about 2 months. I feel he is commiting to her more evryday. I have shared ALL of my feelings about this and he wont reply while he is with her at night but will talk to me in the morning. He says he still cares for me and doesnt want me hurting and says he will continue to talk to me when he feels like it… He has been very kind for the most part. I know this is my fault. Is there any program available that can help me or have I lost him forever??? Please Please help?????

  8.  #8Christine on May 9, 2011 at 9:44 am

    so sorry wrong place will try to move it

  9.  #9Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Christine I feel regardless of the program, anything in it will take you through a process that will take time for you focus on yourself and prioritize yourself. This experience could have you feeling low self-esteem and needy which would be the vibe that has to change. Is it possible to focus on shifting your feelings so your vibe can change? How about reading past articles on the right below on Power and Self-Esteem? In the meantime Rori asked in the article above that we focus on processing our feelings so could I invite you to write what you feel when you are talking to him, what you felt when he told you about the other person and what you are feeling about yourself generally?

  10.  #10Christine on May 9, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Thank you so much. I nearly fell to the floor with shock!!! As I was leaving his house my whole body was numb I could barely walk. I had to sit in my car in his driveway till I felt strong enough to leave. I did tell him that I was terrified to leave at which point he came over and held me in his arms till I pulled away… Are these the right way to express this?

  11.  #11Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 10:04 am

    RE 10 Were you feeling weak with tightness in your stomach area? Did you feel like running or falling to the floor?

    Christine from what I have read from Rori I would have melted rather than pulling away. The right response would be to pull away but that communicates emotional withdrawal that he could possibly experience as rejection. It is past now but can you see how you could have melted in his arms and just cried so he could really feel your pain? I would say focussing on the past will not help except to see how to help yourself in the future. You will build another relationship either with this man or with another. However it is the relationship that is important not necesssarily this particular man, is what I have learnt from being here.

  12.  #12Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Christine here is the link to the previous article. It might help you

  13.  #13Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 10:19 am

    RE 10 I also sense that the shock and numbness might be an indication that you were stuffing down your feelings rather than feeling them. Was there some fear in there?

  14.  #14Christine on May 9, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Thank you very much. I will read it. You are so right about that. I should have allowed it but I got so scared I panicked. I wanted to drop to the floor in anguish… yes I think I was trying to keep my feelings… I wish I would have had Rori’s book before this happened…

  15.  #15Soul Sista on May 9, 2011 at 10:22 am

    hi ladies ~ i’ve been away for a while and actually creating that “safe space” inside of myself is what I have been doing…then out of the blue, got a call from a man i’m involved with and he told me he wanted to marry me…

    of course he does πŸ™‚ they all do…lol πŸ™‚

    are the usual suspects here…SLV, Tinque, Daria..Mercedes…i see Fem Woman still around πŸ™‚

  16.  #16Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 10:23 am

    i am not feeling at all open to the text messages my main guy is sending to me. they are nice but i’m not responding. first it was “have a wonderful day!” now it’s like “i’m thinking of your wonderful smile and hope you’re wearing it today”

    i would really like him to leave me alone right now, but i don’t want to be a prickly pear, and i don’t want to start some more drama by asking him to leave me alone.

    hopefully he will just back off when i don’t answer this one, instead of launching into attacks and drama because he’s not hearing from me.


  17.  #17Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 10:31 am

    it’s just..if i don’t answer, i am scared there will be a backlash.

  18.  #18Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Yeah still here been missing you and good to connect again.

  19.  #19Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 10:35 am

    if there is a backlash and no compassion because i don’t answer while i’m at work, and i don’t engage him in drama, then he is not the one for me.

    putting my phone away. he’s the only one who texts me anyway.

    and his texts never asked me for anything.

    i am a little scared he is going to text me some MORE though.


  20.  #20Soul Sista on May 9, 2011 at 10:36 am

    dorothea ~ for what it’s worth i was thinking about a similar situation i am faced with and the whole him getting angry thing…and what i realized is what i wanted is to know i had the power to influence him ~ and i do. if i’m afraid he’s going to lash out at me then that means i am not confident in my ability to take care of my feelings.

    so, right now, i am re-reading “The Women Men Adore.” i wasn’t ready for it the 1st time I read it but this is exactly what it’s about.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 10:40 am

    RE 20 So you too read Bob Grant’s work. Glad to see I have company.

  22.  #22Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 10:48 am

    ok. cannot just hide. or mayb ei can, and that’s my prerogative. but if i were to say something

    “it would feel good to get a lot fewer calls, texts, and emails right now. honestly i feel fearful of what awaits me when i see i have a new text or call or email, and i want a break from that feeling”

  23.  #23Soul Sista on May 9, 2011 at 10:51 am

    fem: yes…after spending the last 5 months traveling with my mom all my childhood resentments surfaced. i was able to clear them all in 1 session with a facilitator…best $$ i ever spent.

    after i was clear, and i already knew this but couldn’t out into practice, i don’t want a rock star attitude…and i am one!

    the feminine power i feel now is delicious…and after realizing that i wanted to be soft & feminine i knew i was ready for a relationship and just reading Bob’s book again is confirming everything i really always felt under all the anger.

  24.  #24Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 10:54 am

    This was a great post, and again, really timely for me, too.

    Speaking of choice, I just read an another article recently about how men basically have the “upper hand” in today’s sexual “market.” (That doesn’t mean the sex industry, just the market of men and women for dating and marriage.)

    Essentially, the scales are tipped in men’s favor, generally, because there are just SO many amazing women out there! (That’s us, of course:) The problem is, this gives them kind of the “pick of the litter.” Holding out for sex doesn’t always work, because the man can go and easily get sex somewhere else. So women often compromise, giving sex for less (i.e. less commitment) than they would, say, 20 or 50 years ago. And what this means in practice is that we, as women, are then forced to “compete” for the men, and we all know what this does for our self-esteem.

    Thinking about this makes me so feel angry and annoyed. Even if I KNOW that I have a higher value than what many men are offering me, it almost feels like I “have” to go along with it at times. If I want “The man” so much, then he dictates all the terms. And I hate that. And I wonder if I actually run away from situations in which *I* would be calling all the shots. Hm…

    But it made me think, too, about why we do Rori’s tools and CD-ing and all of that. She talks about “raising our value” and that’s exactly what it’s about. Maybe “sex” doesn’t have a high “market value” anymore, but WE do, because *we* as individuals are a unique and precious commodity.

    I only wish I could get this through my head and into my heart.

    I still find myself drawn in sometimes and enthralled by a man who wants me sexually, yet isn’t offering me anything substantial in return. And I know it. It’s like feed my own low self-esteem this way.

    Because the minute you let a man dictate the terms of the agreement, he will low-ball you (the cheapskate!), and the minute you accept those terms, he devalues you automatically in his mind. Then you feel “devalued” – only you are the one who did the devaluing in the first place! Argh.

    Rori’s phrase the “well of ‘shame'” really resonates with me. I feel I have that, and trying to convince myself that I have some kind of “value” feels like exactly that – like I am trying to “convince” myself against all odds. And that’s when I become the one who is trying to “convince” a guy that I’m okay for him, and “better” than he thinks.

    This is exactly what I want to turn around and get going in the other direction, because it feels so wrong this way. I hate that men assume that I am going to be a slut and do whatever they want because I “want them” so bad. It feels ick. It feels nasty. It feels cheap, and I do know that I’m better than that. I just wonder when I am going to stop negotiating with losers.

  25.  #25Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 10:58 am

    it would feel good to get a lot fewer calls, texts, and emails for a while. i am having a hard time appreciating your sweet words because i am still feeling fearful about what awaits me when i see i have a new missed call or a voicemail or a text or an email…

  26.  #26Christine on May 9, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Femininewoman You have been so kind… I texted him about how I felt when he held me… that it was magical and wonderful and that I panicked. He texted saying I appreciate that but you have to stop. I asked him to tell me if he was in Love with her, and if he was that I would never contact him again. He replied saying he doesnt know yet but that I have to leave him alone right now so I said ok…. He is still keeping my heart on a string… I will try to focus on being happy. I just don’t know how to let go or even if he really wants me to… He messages me behind her back only in reply to me of course… On thursday he drove past my work the moment I got off work He did not have to take that route and I called him and he said he knew what time I was getting off and was keeping an eye out for me… I am sooooooo confused…..

  27.  #27Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 11:02 am

    i feel trapped. lik eeverything i say or do will cause pain in my life with this man.

    i may just break things off for good.

  28.  #28Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Dorothea – it sounds like you are still feeling upset (and so triggerific that you are perceiving wooing texts as threats)

    Is it possible to not answer and acknowlege that you still feel upset? (to yourself)

    Then if there is an actual attack on you, you can hang up, walk away, or drop the man from the rotation

  29.  #29Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Thank you Daria

    This is indeed triggeriffic! I can acknowledge that I feel upset to myself.

    The scary overanalyzing part is fear of how he’ll react if i don’t do this or that.

  30.  #30The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 11:13 am

    #22 May I suggest a text, based on what you want to say?
    ‘I feel I need a timeout for x days [men need exact data, or they’ll use the number that fits their interests best. A couple days = 2 days] because I feel overwhelmed by confliciting emotions now [hope this description is good, if not chose another one]. If u want to text or call, pls do that on weekday [insert day of the week, today +x days). C u! Dorothea

    That’s 157 chars, a single SMS. It should make him recognize that you need a timeout, make him think about if he is responsible for your conflicted emotions (which is good, imho), but without him feeling blamed or singled out (he can’t know to how many folks you send this text, after all). Also, he shouldn’t feel panic, since the clear date you set for this communication break should reassure him that this is only temporarily. What do you think?

  31.  #31Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 11:15 am

    I have learned that when a man is going into his cave, not being very responsive or trying to contact you himself, that you should not call him up and ask him what the hell his problem is or attack him, or even send little innocent ‘thinking of you’ texts (because they’re not innocent, and our vibe will tell on us!).

    I have done this before and now that I’m on the receiving end of it, it feels AWFUL. yucky.

  32.  #32tinque on May 9, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Christine – Femininwoman already gave you a lot to think about and read about. I just want to add that this isn’t ultimately about whether he comes back you or not. It’s about you healing you, learning to love yourself so much, filling yourself with love, filling your life with people and activities that get your juices flowing, get you feeling excited an filled up.

    It’s about opening your body and your heart to make room love to flow, into you and through you.

    He will come back, of he won’t, but you will have made the space for him or an even better man to step up and
    WANT to be with YOU, to love and adore you as much as you do yourself.


  33.  #33Christine on May 9, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Yes I understand. Thank you so much for your help… πŸ™‚ xo

  34.  #34Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Laughing Goddess, I can’t write on the longer threads anymore via my phone but am reading comments as they come thru email. I want to thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts today on another thread about the conflict that feels scary and sad like parents fighting – that is Exactly how it feels to me as well. Also, everything else you expressed – the torn feelings, wanting to comfort but not wanting to take sides, etc etc – you said so beautifully what I was unable to put into words. (((LG))) <3

  35.  #35Laughing Goddess on May 9, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Thanks Lucy. <3

    Hugs to you too.

  36.  #36Liz on May 9, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Hello, I just read this message, but I do blame myself for him leaving me. We had a friends with benefits relationship for over a year. with me overfunctioning. pick him up he does not own a car. He lost his job 8 months ago, he asked me to lend him money for his rent, which I paid for 6 mnts, and his cell for 2mths, and his groceries, and everytime we went out I paid. He got a job 2mths ago. Then he got sick neumonia 2 weeks ago, I took care of him and paid his medical bill. Last Tuesday he told me he was going to give me a break because a took care of him I told him I didn’t want a break that maybe he was the one who need one but not me. He got upset and told me, that he didn’t want me to pay for anything anymore that y was feeling really low no selfsteem, he wanted to pay for everything as a man, and it was better if we don see each other anymore. He has not contact me for 6 days when he used to do it every single day twice a day. What should I do I really want to be with him. But I don’t want to be the one calling him. Do you think he will comeback to me. I am lisening to reconnecto your relations and have the relationship you want. But If I shouln’t done what I did, will he be with me?

  37.  #37Laughing Goddess on May 9, 2011 at 11:31 am

    DE: I also wanted to thank you for your support and kind words about my intention to start writing. I felt so loved and supported and touched reading your words. Thank you!

  38.  #38Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I can choose not let his wooing texts mean anything bad.

    but a big part of my programmed fear response (in all fairness, he has programmed this in me with his behavior patterns) is telling me that giving him the benefit of the doubt for having the best intentions and the common sense to know someone needs space, will make me into a fool, and i’ll soon be hurting again.

    this is not what i want though. i want to always assume people have the best intentions and do know better….

  39.  #39Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 11:43 am

    i should really watch rori raye’s toxic men or something

  40.  #40Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Liz he probably will, but for cryin’ out loud honey, let him get strong. I can tell you feel panicky and scared. Take a deep breathe. All is not lost. In his own way he is telling you there is a chance, you just have to back off. A lot.

    Forget about the past, it was not all bad anyway. Whatever you do today will determine whether or not you get your dreams tomorrow. If you want him in your future do in your present what will bring him to you. What does that look like? Much of it will be easy, because it will simply be the opposite of what you have been doing. Not calling. Visualize in your head, him calling you. Calming yourself down. Visulize what you look like at peace, smiling and feeling loved by a special man. Look at your left ring finger. Close your eyes and see a ring sparkling on it that that special man bought. Go to a jewelry catalog and cut out the ring you want, and paste it in a secret spot you can look at. Believing he can take care of himself by saying out loud “I believe **** can take care of himself.” Your own voice will convince you more than this blog,

    Now Liz, listen to me, men are weaker than us, they take longer to recover from everything, job loss, money loss, everything. You were there to help him out but he cant get strong and come back and love you, if you keep being the man. It was fine in a crisis but he is telling you he wants to be the man. Let him get strong, be man in the world and then he will come back in your world and get you. Your job is to start only taking care of you. Period. And doing it real well. Pampering yourself. Getting yourself peaceful. Getting yourself well and calm and over this so as to be ready for if he comes back. You are also to say out loud to yourself a zillion times a day. ” I am worth a man coming to get me, I do not have to do anything except be calm and happy” This may take quite awhile. dont worry about the length of time. Might even be a year. Everytime you want to call just tell yourself, it will only make it worse and make him be away longer. Everytime you dont call, it heals things just a bit better. This is new and different but dont give up. All is not lost.

  41.  #41Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    “For us women, attraction can happen in some other ways that make us different from men.

    It could happen after knowing a man for awhile and discovering qualities about him that attract us deeply.

    It could be – and this is the BEST case scenario – that after getting to know him, we begin to trust him, we begin to let him see ALL of us, even the parts of us we’re not so crazy about.

    We let down our guard and show him who we really are and how we really feel.

    And, then every moment we do this, every moment we allow ourselves to be more vulnerable and open with him, if he continues to love us, treat us well, listen to us, support us and initiate more and more contact and more and more commitment – then we become ever more intensely attracted to him.

    It’s as though our attraction to him is based more on our attraction to and love for OURSELVES more than anything in particular about HIM.

    This puts the lie to the whole thing about “having things in common,” and other kinds of personality matching.

    In my Rori Raye philosophy – the thing you and a man should BOTH have most in common is a deep, abiding, total love for YOU!”

  42.  #42Liz on May 9, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Thank you so much Nanceen, for your words, I will do everything in my part to stay strong an take care of myself, and hope for the best.

  43.  #43Liz on May 9, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    He did tell me he is not seeing any other women and he is not thinking on doing it. He said will not feel good to go out with some else when he is telling me that we can see each other because he has not money now.

  44.  #44Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    You are welcome Liz. I tend to get very basic and blunt. My words may sound simple but when you are right in the middle of a wreck you need quick, fast and simple first aid to stop the bleeding and get you healing. That is what I am good at. Others on this blog will see other stuff and help you get better as you progress. I am just the first aid station. You will meet some fabulous women!!!!!!!!!

    Once in awhile there will be someone responding to your post that hurts. They either dont get it or dont mean it. Silently bless them, ignore it and read all the good stuff. You were led here for a reason and its all for good. If you fall down and mess up, just come on back, you will get back up quicker and higher. Hugs sweetie!!

  45.  #45Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    i feel excited! i think there’s mullein growing out in the yard where i’ve been dumping my tea seeds!


  46.  #46Laughing Goddess on May 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Daria: re 41

    I love reading that from Rori! And this has proven so true for me.

    The more LI continues to accept me and love me, I find myself feeling more and more attracted to him.

    In some ways he’s not as flashy or charismatic as the kind of guy I normally feel attracted to. Yet he is sooo loving and solid and really values having a solid, strong relationship. He is so stubborn, which drives me crazy sometimes, yet his stubbornness has been the glue that has kept us together through the tougher times.

    He doesn’t give up on people. He doesn’t give up on me.

    This feels incredible and new and strange for me.

    I’ve always been the one trying to hold the relationship together.

    Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for posting that and I also want to celebrate how true Rori’s words have been in regard to my own experience.


  47.  #47Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    YAY LG!

    I like how it ‘means’ for me, that I can create a relationship with ANY kind of man, as long as he’s stepping up and i’m opening up!

    That feels like im super powerful!

  48.  #48Liz on May 9, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Thank you again Nanceen, I printed what you wrote and I will read it all the time. I do like very much bout the ring on my left finger and “I am worth a man coming to get me, I do not have to do enything …. I thank you from the heart

  49.  #49Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    omgosh! Rebecca Marino – an EFT coach and spiritual coach that works with divine feminine divorced 2 years ago!


    This was after i became familiar with her work

    her and mama gena’s divorces show to me that being a powerful self focused woman, does NOT guarantee a lasting loving relationship

    using Rori’s tools to create connection, and let the man be the masculine role in relationship will!

    I feel so glad to have Rori

    and to have ME!

  50.  #50Laughing Goddess on May 9, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Daria: re 45

    That is so cool Daria Earth Goddess

    btw, have you scheduled the teleclass yet?

  51.  #51Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    shes changing her name from Marino to

    Rebecca A Messenger


    i feel so much love for her

    she is so cute!!

    at first her voice used to REALLY trigger me, because i had judgements about people “who sounded like that”

    but after i felt touched by some of her work, now i feel love and safety and fun with her

  52.  #52Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    LG – not yet, I want to do Thursday.

    However Thursday is also my Godsisters Bday

    and i want to go visit her.

    although ive been feeling afraid to

    I kinda want to do Thursday and Friday

    I will let it come to me

    I am not pushing

    I feel scared about what “other people will think” about me not pushing, and im gonna not push anyway


  53.  #53Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    41. There is a man with whom I am experiencing this type of thing (altho we have not met in person yet, but our interaction is not via a dating site). BUT, here is what concerns me: In moments where I feel bored with him or notice he has a hobby or interest that annoys me or does something that is in any way a turn-off for me – I feel Zero attraction. In a relationship there will always be “turn off moments” but if there is an underlying physical attraction or chemistry, there is still something there –

  54.  #54Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    so it doesn’t go down to Zero.

  55.  #55The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    #53 “In a relationship there will always be β€œturn off moments” but if there is an underlying physical attraction or chemistry, there is still something there”

    Um, Lucy, as you say, you haven’t met yet. So, where shall the physical or chemical attraction come from? Maybe it’s time to meet the guy, to get clarity about this?

  56.  #56Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    That is, I can feel sexually attracted to a man I don’t find physically attractive – if and when he is making me laugh, smile, feel adored and special, etc. But the moment there is a lapse in those good feelings (thru no fault of his), the sexual attraction goes out the window. This concerns me bc in a ltr/marriage of course there will be lapses in good feelings, even if it’s just everyday stressors or working out a small problem.

  57.  #57Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    But with a man I feel physically attracted to, that physical and sexual component is still there, even during the lapses of other (emotional) good feelings. And that’s when I start to compare this guy with WH. WH makes me feel good just looking at him. He is aesthetically pleasing. That counteracts lapses in the emotional feel-good dept.

  58.  #58Daria on May 9, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Lucy – i think the attraction comes from me opening up authentically

    i think, deeper than my perception, I feel turned off… bored/or judgemental of his hobbies etc, BECAUSE I am AFRAID and shutting down the sharing and the opening of my heartt

    if I were to say: “oh i feel bored”

    or even “wow i feel a bit judgemental” (this one may take some context tweaking)

    and open up full expression of my feelings…

    then attraction will still occur.

    But the shutdown of my heart … the NOT sharing of this aspect of my experience… cuts off my connection and openness at that point. I’ve had great results with maintaing the attraction to him when i’ve shared (though it has been scary and a tweaking process and all babysteps, when i get a lil brave)

  59.  #59The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    #57 Lucy, I’m curious: How does WH look like?

  60.  #60Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Not sure if I’m getting my point across, typing bits via phone like this. Not sure what this all means and what to do about it.

  61.  #61The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    #61 Oh, I understand your point, Lucy: With guys you find physically attractive, you feel a bond all the time, with others, not, no matter how hard they try to be there for you. That’s quite clear.

    I’m just wondering: What do you find physically aTtractive? Muscles? Size? Handsome face?

  62.  #62Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    p.s. I am not at all trying to argue or disagree with rori’s words daria posted. Just working through what I am experiencing.

  63.  #63Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Lurker, I will gladly meet him when he is ready. The physical attraction or lack thereof comes from pictures – something that never fails to accurately predict irl physical attraction for me. I am extremely visually oriented.

  64.  #64Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    now the guy is “liking” my most recent facebook update

    i feel rattled. i want to be left alone. i know he is only doing positive things, but i feel exhausted and afraid. please leave me alone for a while.

  65.  #65SummerBaby on May 9, 2011 at 1:12 pm


    the more you notice what he is doing, the more there will be for you to notice. It’s like when you by a new car… you never saw that shade of blue in a car before or that make/model, and suddenly that’s all you see on the road.

    Try to shift your focus on something else. You are directing your subconscious to notice every little thing he’s doing. Take a deep breath and do something else. turn off the phone… stay off FB and go do something nice for you – whatever it is you would do if he were giving you the space you want. Create your own sense of aloneness use your wonderful imagination and take a mental vacation.



  66.  #66Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Lurker, he looks like a smash-up of Keith Urban and Billy Ray Cyrus. More rugged and less “pretty” than Keith… and he has been told by others that he resembles Billy Ray (but I think he’s better-looking than BR). One major thing that pleases me aesthetically is longish (and clean and healthy!) hair. Not a requirement, but a definite turn-on.

  67.  #67Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    should i really have to stay off of facebook because when HE interacts with my page, i feel smothered?

    (i should stay off facebook, but only cuz i should be working:P)

    (except i don’t have jack to do today hehe)

  68.  #68Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Haha! Remembering I got a bit triggered when Rusty kept saying “Jodie Foster (but prettier)”! I kept thinking Wth, Jodie Foster is plenty pretty! And now I am doing the same thing. Hehe. Egg on my face.

  69.  #69The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    #66 Uh huh. Thx.

  70.  #70Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Daria, 58. Interesting that you should say that bc just this morning I had a revelation about myself that made me lol and i was planning to share it here later. I was thinking about how I often get attached too quickly to some men – including this man who i feel attraction concerns with (!) – and was asking myself “how can i get less attached yet not shut down?” That’s when I laughed bc it suddenly hit me that I can’t shut down around a man even if I try! I just stay open nd vulnerable no matter what – and

  71.  #71Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    -and that’s the thing about me that my therapist was saying keeps bringing TN man back.

  72.  #72SummerBaby on May 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    You know Lucy, the long hair doesn’t do it for me at all. In fact a crew cut or a near buzz gets me every time. Apparently this is something I’ve grown into because I can remember thinking bald was unattractive. Maybe it’s my tactile nature. Convenient because many men my age don’t have much hair left. πŸ˜‰

    Dorothea I shouldn’t be here either. I’ve taken way too many breaks today, but I’m trying to favor a very sore arm. I didn’t mean you should avoid FB just because he’s there… but you have no control over what he does – only how you react.


  73.  #73Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    So… what I realized about That issue is that I don’t have to be concerned that “not attaching” will pendulum-swing me to “shutting down” – bc shutting down is so far away from what I do.

  74.  #74Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    i feel overwhelmed and don’t know what to do. that is coming out of my desire to control when fear of the unknown is present.

    i am scared he will lash out at me if i don’t respond or don’t respond warmly. or he will keep contacting me without my responding until it feels like harassment. And either way, he will be ruining his chances of us ever having anything together again.

    so i am trying to prevent that from happening.

    and it feels EXHAUSTING.

    i give it up.

  75.  #75Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    I just got off the phone with my mom, and I feel so bad. Whenever she “helps” me, she has to do it on *her* terms. She never asks my opinion or acknowledges my feelings – or the fact that I might have some – in a given situation. Then she turns around and uses the fact that I need/want something and she is helping me as a weapon, to justify her total disregard for my status as a human being and not an object.

    No wonder I have no problem being objectified by men. No wonder I have problems with low self esteem and selling myself as short as possible to the lowest, and likely first, bidder.

    I feel so sad. If all of this is a lie – that I am broken, wrong, untrustworthy, and unworthy, period – then why is my own mother the one who is feeding it? I feel broken, hurt, crumpled up, disregarded, ignored, rejected and disrespected.

    And I was angry. I told my mother that no matter what, nothing excused her not asking me how I felt about the decision she was making about my life without my input. My body is shaking right now. I can’t believe this is coming from my own mother. This right after mother’s day, when we are supposed to appreciate our mothers. But I do NOT appreciate the way she treats me. I do NOT appreciate being treated like an object and not a person. I want to be respected, loved, cherished for being who I am, and I want my feelings to be acknowledged.

    I feel hurt πŸ™

  76.  #76SummerBaby on May 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    (((TMizz))) hugs!


  77.  #77Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Summerbaby, yes my daughter has the same longish-hair affinity that I do and we often marvel together at how most women seem to prefer very short hair. πŸ™‚ I am very tactile too though – have to touch Everything that appears to have an interesting texture – and I Love touching nice hair. πŸ™‚

  78.  #78tinque on May 9, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Tmizz – I feel sad you’re hurting, yet there is something to think about here, keep close to your heart. You mother doesn’t have the tools you’ve learned here. She is doing the best she can with the little she was given, and maybe it was nothing.

    Maybe she’s in pain from her past; maybe it’s perpetual pain. Can you see that she’s trying to exert control because she feels she has none in her own life? Can you feel compassion for her pain?


  79.  #79Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Dorothea, can you just tell him, “Thanks for the emails/texts. Right now I really need to be left alone for awhile. Nothing personal, it’s just me.”

  80.  #80Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Daria, thank you for your input. <3

  81.  #81Daria on May 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    i feel upset reading Lucy’s words about not being shut down


    i guess i feel guilt that i Do feel shut down,

    for me feeling bored is a ‘flag’ that im feeling shut down

    i feel surprised sometimes when i’ve heard some coaches say, you can’t feel A and B at the same time

    ex. you can’t be breathing fully in your abdomen and feel scared at the same time

    you can’t feel appreciation and feel (i forgot… was this on Rose Cole’s? anger??) at the same time

    also I can see that I can’t feel

    CURIOSITY and feel bored at the same time

    that is if i feel bored, I can move into curiosity… and the boredom dissolves

    they are polar states

    i can’t be in masculine and feminine at the same time, though i can moment to moment flow between one and another, even in a split second

    I can remember to use the tool to “move into curiosity” when i feel bored


    i know for me if i am able to share the bored feeling, or the disconnected feeling, it’s like, im back connected, back feeling attracted again

    and i think its important in that way to not judge feelings

    because if im judging my feeling of disconnect and not sharing it to – not hurt the guy (and therefore having him possibly leave or attack me) –

    this makes me feel unsafe on a deep level – that i can’t share my truth for fear of… – and then my attraction to him shuts down

    by not sharing im creating more disconnect… yet if i were to notice and share it, im creating connect and allowing the attraction i was feeling not to shut down

  82.  #82Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    lucy, thanks.
    he’d probably turn around and send me a long email about how i don’t love him and he is not goign to pursue me anymore.


  83.  #83Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    he’s started using MY dang feeling messages

    “this feels bad,” etc.

    yeah, not getting what you want DOES feel bad some times. i’m not abusing you though. jeeeeeeezus!

  84.  #84Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    i turned him into a rori raye nightmare

  85.  #85Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Tinque – Thank you:) It feels so good to hear your support.

    I think you are right. This is a unique and special moment, and there is something to work with here.

    Right now I am trying to be compassionate to myself and acknowledge my pain, which is so often something I don’t do (or maybe I do it more than I think). But I think I’ve always repressed my pain around this BECAUSE I saw that she was in pain, that she “needed” my strength, and she “needed” me to go along with whatever she was doing.

    I guess right now it hurts, because it feels different. I am acknowledging my feelings, at least to myself. I am responding in the moment and affirming that I AM HERE.

    She cannot make me invisible just by ignoring me, whether that was/is her intention or not.

    But it also makes me realize that maybe there are some wishes and desires on my part that I need to pay attention to in order to realize myself in a way that she can’t “help” me with. I’ve played into the system (her system) by willingly handing over my power to her so often and for too long – because I was sympathetic to her lack and to her ignorance – and right now I just don’t feel like doing that anymore.

    Thanks πŸ™‚


  86.  #86Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Summerbaby – thank you for hugs!!!

  87.  #87Daria on May 9, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    do i have a toxic (imaginary) relationship with “lucy?”

    not necessarily the real lucy, but the way i perceive her

    what i perceive is me giving to her over and over, and her always saying, no thanks, i don’t like that, no

    no thank you,

    and then one time, she’s like, oih i like that thanks!

    then back to no no i dont want that i dont need that

    oh no id rather not have help. this doesnt help

    and i feel all pouty and disconnected in this

    i wonder what this mirrors for me?

    is it my relationship with my mom that i’m ascribing to “lucy?”

    and it feels frustrating that it seems im addicted to engaging with her or giving to her when it feels bad so many times?


    is it possible for me to stop ‘offering’ her anything?

    even stories of my experience

    hoping to “help” her? even if she seemingly asks for help? even if she seems sad about what she’s experiencing?

    can i just focus on me, on the triggered feelings… the “inflamed” feelings i have…

    and how my experience contrasts what she is experiencing, and not concern myself with what she thinks or chooses or feels?



    “imaginary lucy” : oh i start feeling bored with men and in the moment feel not attracted to them… the ones i don’t feel ‘physical’ attraction to

    me: thoughts: “oh i feel excited to hear about what she’s experiencing! i remember experiencing something similar!

    i remember a moment when i had an AHA moment that by not sharing that i was feeling bored.. ie judgemental.. ie turned off…

    i was actually shutting down and holding back, and not sharing my FULL truth the way Rori says

    then when i remembered and started to take babysteps in braving the fear of what would happen and Sharing

    — and what WOULD happen? well i think likely the man would feel HURT or angry… and… i had a previous AHA moment that that means to me that he may attack me or leave me — and that feels bad and i dont want that —

    when i shared, i rmembered i continued for that moment to feel attracted… and there was a feeling of relief…

    and i want to reexperience that because, i forgot about it for awhile

    and often times i havent told men i feel bored, or disconnected, or judgemental

    and this feels exciting!”

    and this is all for me and has nothing to do with giving to lucy, just triggered by reading her words

    ok this feels good

    well what feels bad is i feel like im doing a shut out on lucy

    and i feel guilty

    and i also don’t want to experience that icky feeling i experience offering help and feeling dismayed and not received


    feeling scared… to share this

    feel afraid this is like a “guilt trip” to lucy

    like, oh you didnt like my help, well fine then, i feel butthurt, and will never help you again!!!

    and i do feel like that!

    and i feel like that over and over again!

    surely there is something important for me to heal in this!!

  88.  #88Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    i LOVE relating blog triggers to real life triggers.

  89.  #89Daria on May 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Dorothea – Rosa’s stop sign tool works REALLY well for me to break the loops when thoughts of stuff i don’t feel good thinking about come up

    sometimes it’s saved my day when i was stuck in obsession

    what i do is the Stop Sign tool and then immediately a really good feeling FLIP

    i’m healing and feeling great – is a basic FLIP that works for me

    sharing this because your experience reminded me of Saturday morning when i felt upset with my dad, who was there with me on the trip, and feeling AWFUL, and obsessing about it with heavy ass feelings for HOURS, and then remembered the tool and in 5 min turned it around!

    so thank you for providing the trigger to remind me of that!

    and if you’d wind up using that tool, i would feel excited to hear about you feeling better!

  90.  #90tinque on May 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    “Right now I am trying to be compassionate to myself and acknowledge my pain,”

    This is beautiful Tmizz. And know too that she can’t make you feel anything, invisible or otherwise. She ignores you, go do something great for yourself. How about going to the nearest mirror and loving on yourself. Unless you’re a vampire, your gorgeous face will be looking right back at you. Can you make her smile? Laugh?


  91.  #91Daria on May 9, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    so excited! just reviewed a quick clip of the last part of Toxic Men, where Rori is working on stage with a woman

    and i felt so moved!

    and excited and recommitted to doing this feeling message and walk away to heal my relationships!

  92.  #92Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Thank you – yes! Right now I am listening to a “feminine power” recording, and your note gave me both a smile and a laugh! πŸ™‚

  93.  #93Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Dorothea #84 – lol!

  94.  #94Queenbee on May 9, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Hi Sirens (Tinque, FW, Daria …) please comment –

    So HotAmazing man arrived this morning. I sent him a text when he got off the plane –

    ME: Welcome home! I feel so happy that you are back xx

    HIM: Thank you. Have a lovely day.

    ME: I missed you since Tuesday. Feeling a little scared right now…. Have a lovely day too.

    HIM: Why scared?

    ME: I’m not sure what to say. Maybe it’s just me… I’m not used to expressing my feelings to a man when I don’t know how or what he feels about me. Anyway, I’m not a fan of texting so I will go now. Once again, welcome home!

    So these texts were over a period of four hours. And that’s it.

    I feel so many things right now… good and bad…

    The main thing is that I wanted to be open and authentic.

    That’s as much as I can do now. What do you think?

    Not sure of my last text though. Do you think it’s blamey?

    I answered straightforwardly since he asked. Should I have said it differently or something different?

    Anyway, so now I’m kinda just hanging out with my feelings…

    Married men are still attracted to me… Ugh! I want to heal this, thank you!

    Other than that, I have CDs lined up for the week… including men.

    I see that I’m in an imaginary relationship w/ HotAmazing man. If it was real perhaps I would have seen/ spoken to him today?

    And all the previous stuff that has happened…

    I feel bad coz things were moving along and I feel like I messed things up by not opening up easily and now things seem to be moving backwards….

    I haven’t seen him in three weeks… he hasn’t asked to see me yet…

    With all the stuff that happened, I guess, I own my process… and I can be okay with this.

    A man who loves me and is emotionally available is not going to disappear forever because of my process….:)

    And if he does, well, that’s not the right man for me and someone BETTER will come along.

    So that’s kind of where I am right now.

    And I love #41.

    HotAmazing man is the step up kind… and I can see how my mistakes could have dulled the relationship…

    And I feel bad…

    But I don’t want to blame myself…

    This is my process… and I want to own it… and feel worthy of it and feel okay…

    It’s been a rough day of low self-esteem.

    Sometimes, I think my low self-esteem feelings, aside from the well of ‘shame’ feelings, has to do with me trying to fit into people’s mould – seeing things as black and white…

    I’m exploring more of the gray areas of my life… and it brings up more of what a uniquely unique person I am…

    I feel better when I notice this…

    And then I can see my ‘value’ go up by fuller self-acceptance of myself and my process…

    Rori asks us to imagine ourselves as very expensive…

    I have such a hard time with this when I try to focus on what’s black and white and I don’t fit…

    Or even just imagining it is so difficult…

    I wish there was some kind of litmus test that could tell me how much I ‘truly’ value myself… then I’d ‘know’…

    Sometimes, I have no clue whether I’m valuing myself or not… like in my text… just not sure….

    I want to heal my inner ‘well of shame’, which I know I have big time… and grow from this…

    Would love to hear your take on my texts and anything else you want to add?

    What I wanted was to be open and authentic – what do you think?


  95.  #95Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    So he called me in the middle of my work day a few minutes ago. i answered it because i thought “jeez, i am working and busy, i have GOT to tell him to give me more space than this.”

    the conversation was very well received. i felt completely supported and he didn’t instill any fear in me at all. he said only good things, and not extreme things that one says when backed into a corner, but healthy things.

    things that made me feel like a real person in his eyes. i haven’t felt that way in a looong time. perhaps ever with him.

    i did cry pretty hard tho. and then i cleaned up and came back to my desk.

  96.  #96Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Also, I am compassionate to myself because my mother is a hoarder. Not a major one, but a hoarder nonetheless. And it is a problem of many children of hoarders that they don’t feel “loved” by their parents because their parents are really only concerned with “things.” The hoarders end up treating their children and other people in their lives as “things” because that is how they know to relate. It is sad. I do feel compassion for her. I do know that she must feel very, very lonely. And she must need things to replace some void within herself. But I cannot help her with that, or fill her void. And I can’t just “thing” myself, as she does, because that is not the way I operate. I need to find a new, fun, alive, way of being that isn’t attached to anything else. It just is.

    I guess that’s why I’m here πŸ™‚

    Thank you!!

  97.  #97The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    #95 Congratulations, Dorothea! See, it wasn’t as bad as you imagined, it went quite well. And you can relax now, without fear. That’s good.

  98.  #98Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Thanks, Lurker. No it wasn’t as bad as i imagined, but to be fair to my imagination, it was a likely scenario.

    i feel so impressed that he got off the toxic rollercoaster of unhealthiness today. even if it’s just one day, and even if it doesn’t mean we end up together, i feel impressed by him and for him.

    we all deserve much healthier things, me and him, yes?:)

  99.  #99Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    QB #94

    I love your post! I feel validated, in a way, because that’s mostly how I’ve been feeling today, too. Funny how these things can go around sometimes. I was feeling all of that, and thinking about my “value” and then this thing came up with my mother…but it started off with me thinking how I relate to guys.


    Anyway, he said “Why scared?”

    It sounds like he was giving you an opportunity to open and up and say exactly why you were scared. He was curious. But your answer to him (if you will pardon my honesty) sounds to me like a lot of hemming and hawing. Men like direct answers, and that’s what feeling messages are about, right? Your answer consists of a lot of “I don’t know” and “I’m not sure” and “I’m not a fan” – “Ok, bye!” To me, it sounds like you 1.) avoided the question, and 2.) cut yourself off! I know, because I do this, too. I avoid questions all the time. Especially about feelings.

    I know you were being authentic, and expressing your uncertainty, but you don’t have to leave it at that. You opened the door to telling him about your feelings. You can be certain about your feelings. So what about coming up with a really clear fM? Like, “I’m scared you don’t want to see me.”

    What is it you’re feeling?

    What are you scared of?

    I don’t always like texts, either, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use it to your advantage:)

  100.  #100Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Today I feel very tired.

    I feel pissy at flaky men… I feel pissy at myself for keep choosing flaky men… well mostly, babystepping away.

    I have had lots of guys contacting me recently, booking dates and then either cancelling last minute or just not calling!

    Grrrr, rah pants!

    Mr thingy from the pub not been in touch since his brief appearance on my FB status on Sat night.

    I am feeling overwhelmed with guys from the pub who know each other, like me, put the moves on me and then don’t step up.

    I feel gripey.

    I have a lot of NVs about what those guys might be saying about me… and that makes me feel small and closed off.

    I feel annoyed that they don’t step up.

    Feel like throwing toys out pram. And throwing rocks at them.

    And yet they are ok… just doing what they are doing.

    The real question is what am I doing here?

    So I wonder when I am going to value myself enough to start picking the men who can and do step up.

    I know they are there, and more than just one of them. It is about me truly realising I am good enough to be treated well, and also at a level where I can handle the real intimacy they will bring me.

    And that is where I am at, practicing that.

    I am doing ok.

    Well, I am no longer accepting crumbs, which feels much better, and puts me at a bit of a stalemate when I will no longer lean forward AND I am still picking men who don’t know how to row.

    Babystepping away from that by appreciating what they do give and saying no to what I don’t want, then holding my boundaries.

    I keep bashing my head against the brick wall of choosing the same kind of men from the same place and expecting a different outcome!


    Toxic stuff again. Like it is not really of value if I don’ have to struggle for it or if it is given freely and easily.

    But this belief is changing now, and I am learning how to receive so much better.

    The other thing is I feel really attracted to those super masc men in the pub, you know the ones who just want to drink beer and watch football and porn…

    And usually are not too concerned about giving to a woman.

    So I know I need a masc man, but it is a different sort that will be good for me. The ones who are masc and want to take care of a woman AND do MORE than just sitting in the pub drinking beer.

    But all men are good for practice.

    I think I might take a break from the pub for a while. Have a change of scene for a while.

    So yeah today feeling tired and pissy at men really.

    Pissy at abandoning self that is feeling vulnerable and needs tlc, instead of the same experience with people from pub.


    Well that is my little rant over for now.

  101.  #101The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    #100 Oh my goddess, Ella! You really deserve better than that. Changing the hunting ground sounds like a good idea. Search the presence of men who are a bit more classy! See if that makes a difference.

    And if all else fails, I’ll travel to the UK!

  102.  #102Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Well I did what I wanted to do.

    I stood up for myself and spoke my truth and expressed my feelings to my housemate guy.

    When I met him yesteday he immediately began telling about the women he dated at the w/e and how they have both contacted him to make a second date.

    For a few minutes I stood there with a kinda fixed smile (grimace) on my face, wanting to say how I felt and feeling afraid, and then I thought F it, I am going to do it regardless of the outcome cus I need to speak my truth.

    I felt vulnerable and afraid.

    I looked him in the eyes and told him that I do not feel comfortable with him telling me about his dates with other women. I thought I would be but over the weekend I realised I am not.

    He went quiet and looked kind of shocked and then he said sorry.

    Then he asked if we could talk about it more when we got home. I said yes.

    When we talked later he asked me how I felt and for me to be honest.

    And I told him I feel confused.

    And then he told me some stuff. He told me he likes me a lot… and that everything I am feeling he is feeling too.

    We spoke about how weird the situation we find ourselves in is. About me feeling bad bc he is my best friend’s ex. About feeling attracted to each other.

    About feeling jealous when the other when went on a date or spoke about another man/woman.

    About feeling anxious due to already living together by default.

    About how comfortable we are communicating (well actually it was him wh said that, I feel hella uncomfortable a lot of the time).

    He gave me the impression that he likes me and the other dates were kinda just dates. I don’t know could be reading it wrong and it felt like he was telling me he has strong feelings for me.

    He said there is definitely something there.

    We talked about how things might be handled if something did happen.

    And then he asked if he could take me out on a date, within the next couple of weeks. No pressure just get some dinner and a film.

    I said yes (after hesitation, still feels so weird).

    And then we ate dinner.

    I felt all talked out. I wanted to be held but didn’t know how to express that w/o leaning forward so I just said I felt tired of talking.

    He walked me to bottom of the stairs (I live at the top of the stairs! lol).

    Then he held me.

    He has big strong arms πŸ™‚

    He asked me if I would like to stay in his bed with him and just cuddle, but I felt overwhelmed and said it was too early for that.

    So we went to bed.

    In the morning he had left me a nice note by the kettle, thanking me for dinner, with some ‘x’s.

    I feel amazed about the whole thing and really proud of myself and also still really vulnerable and afraid of being hurt.


  103.  #103Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm


    wow you rock!

  104.  #104Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Btw – I mean we went to bed separately in our own separate beds.

  105.  #105Mel on May 9, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    This sounds a lot like Femininewoman’s advice to me earlier today! People can choose to do some mean sh*ty things. That’s not in my power. I can only choose how I respond in such situations. And even then, I have to let go of any control over the outcome. Because that’s not under my control either. This takes confidence though. To know that it doesn’t matter what happens, I choose to do what feels best to me. I feel scared just thinking about it…

  106.  #106Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Thanks Dorothea!!


  107.  #107Mel on May 9, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Ella you DO rock!!

  108.  #108Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Oh and also I am stil feeling lil insecure with it all.

    I mean before I expressed my boundary he had already told me about the 2nd dates he has planned next weekend with the 2 women from last weekend.

    And also about being invited to another single woman’s house for dinner.

    I so wish I hadn’t heard that and so glad that I expressed my feelings and boundary around this. Once I had said it he did not talk about them again.

    But now I already have pictures in my head of him on these dates with these women and I feel insecure.

    And all the voices come.

    Like they are all thinner than me, and probably prettier than me.


    How can I compete?

    And yet I don’t want to compete.

    And I wish I could tell him not to go, and I don’t feel I can. These dates are already booked and planned.

    And it feels ICKY!

    Sulky face.

    And yet, they are not me!

    No, they are not me. And with a bit of luck they are not Sirens from Siren island either and don’t have the support of hundreds of other Sirens.

    And I think if I can keep the focus on me (easier said than) that will raise my vibe.

    And raised vibe plus being vulnerable makes me attractive.

    Very hard for me to let go of this situation.

    I want to TELL him what to do.

    And I won’t.

    And he apologised to me for bringing these dates to our home and for making me uncomfortable.

    But I don’t think he will cancel his dates because he places a lot of value on keeping his word and doing what he says he is going to do.

    And I feel super afraid that he will go on the dates next weekend, and get a vibe with one of the women that beats the vibe he has with me.

    And that thought feels scary and awful.

    And also part of me feels like it is better if he and I don’t get straight into something… I won’t anyway, he still has to win me if he wants me,

    And that involves making it better for me to be with him than without.

    And despite this I STILL DON’T WANT HIM TO DATE!!!!!


  109.  #109Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Dorothea re 95

    You rock too!


  110.  #110luzydel on May 9, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    I don’t know If I am being “vain” or this is really happening. Saturday I was at a store and a guy was looking at me, I looked and smiled and he almost trip. Then today at lucnk I decided to rest and listen to music in my car and this man ( a ‘bit older than me) kept looking and smiling at me, I said hello and keept reading.

    I feel men are noticing me more and therefore I also notice them more, but then something tells me that perhaps this is all in my head – that they don’t really notice me at all.

  111.  #111Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:49 pm


    They notice you!


  112.  #112Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:49 pm


    Yay travel to the UK to see me.

    That feels good!


  113.  #113Ella on May 9, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Ow, and guess what else he told me (Mr Housemate guy… hmmm, I need a better name for him!).

    He told me from the moment he met me he knew I was different. And that I am a very well presented young lady. And that actually he was quite blown away by me.

    And that I have more than he even realised I have.

    And he liked the fact that I told him I was not comfortable with him talking about other women.

    Not really sure what it all means.

    Just words for now.

    But it sure feels good.

    Except the dating (his) which feels bloomin awful and I just want to oops up side his head!

  114.  #114Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    luzydel, that’s cuz you’re hot hot hot

  115.  #115Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    BRAVA Ella!! Wow. I feel so happy that you were so brave And that it went so well!

  116.  #116The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    #102 Now THAT sounds better Ella! Well done.

    But what’s that in #108: “Like they are all thinner than me, and probably prettier than me.”
    You have a PRETTY face, Ella! Damn, I’m sad you changed your avatar. And “thinner”? Maybe. But it’s not the waist size but the curves that leave the strongest impression! And the female vibes. Using Rori’s tools, I’m sure you can make the “competition” look boring, Ella!

  117.  #117Ella on May 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm


    Thanks, that feels good to read. And I feel my confidence lifts a little bit because I have and can do those things!


  118.  #118Daria on May 9, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    wow i feel …

    a lil skay and a li calm too

    i just did some major EFT work including some matrix reimprinting

    feeling excited to see it play out in my life

  119.  #119Lilybelle on May 9, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    63: Oh Luce,

    Me too…big time. I can tell in the first ten seconds if I am physcially attracted to a person..without even reading his profile, if I am online. In person, even less than that.

    I am trying and working to be more open. It’s hard.


  120.  #120Ella on May 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    And now I need to really sink into being a Siren.

    Completely and utterly.

    I feel inspired by Mercedes story. Even though that was a different situation, the way she pulled away from her man and just totally focused on herself and CD-ing.

    Well I am not saying for me to close off. However I need distance and total Siren vibe until/unless he claims me.

    And super CD-ing

    Until he chooses me by stepping up and this would look like not dating anyone else.

    What do you all think?

    Not sure how to not think about this. But maybe I will just give it some time. Give myself some super loving and attention and then see what happens in a few days.

    Keep expressing…

  121.  #121Daria on May 9, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Queenbee – i feel so much compassion for you reading about your texting experience

    i think i would feel a lot of self doubt too… and i think that’s cuz this is a lean forward situation – it feels so much better, i feel so much more secure to let the man initiate contact

    for example, it woudl feel so good if he came back and wrote ME

    “I’m back! missed you!”

    then i could respond… “oh that feels so good to hear, i feel glad you’re back, i missed you as well!”

    then i likely wouldn’t have felt so scared also, because i wouldn’t be putting myself “out there” in a reach forward way

    i feel glad you are noticing your feelings so well in this situation, and now you will be able to experiment with how “giving” to him by leaning foward to welcome him,

    feels vs. allowing him to come to you and give to you

  122.  #122The Lurker on May 9, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    #117 Yay, “can do”. That’s the right spirit! You are pretty, Ella, and such a nice person – lots of men want you, not only your housemate. If he screws up, others will queue up, including a fan from the other side of the channel. You’re on the right way, don’t look back!

    Goodnight now, Sirens. C u!

  123.  #123Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Daria, I feel sad that our interactions so often feel bad to you. I felt a tightness in my stomach reading about this. I also felt slightly peeved and exasperated. I often feel afraid anticipating your reactions to my comments (egg-shell feeling). I don’t know what to do to change this. I don’t want to be fake and pretend that your experience is the same as mine or that your advice applies to me when it doesn’t. I feel good being real and truthful. Do you have a suggestion for

  124.  #124Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    a way you would like me to respond to you in such situations? What would feel better to you?

  125.  #125FlowerChild77 on May 9, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Hello…I’m kind of ‘new’ here. I signed up last fall, sometime, and posted a few times and then my mother became very ill. I’ve spent the last 6 months taking care of her (I’m the only child.) She died recently (and her sister, a very close aunt, died on Thanksgiving day.) So, most of my attention has been on family things and feeling (and trying to love) my sadness. I try to read the blog as much as I can. I can’t remember my sign up information so I’m just signing up again with a different user name.

    Ella (#108)…I can imagine how you feel in this situation. And I want to (((hug))) you. I don’t see how you can go wrong. You’ve been feeling your feelings; trusting your boundaries; choosing your words…and you’ve been surprised!!

    I can feel how badly you want him NOT to go on those dates with other women. I wouldn’t like how that feels, either. But look at it this way–if he’s the “right man”—none of those other women will even phase him! Their vibe won’t appeal to him more than yours does and he will still be drawn back to YOU. πŸ™‚

    I would still CD and accept dates with other guys, though. So far, it’s only words. And I’m thinking that you might still be feeling some anxiety about your friend (his ex) and her feelings around this.

    If it were me, I would sit down and talk to her about it…get that part taken care of before things go any further. (And if he doesn’t want her to know about it, I’d see that as a red flag.)

    I haven’t had time to think much about relationships or men…but I use Rori’s “tools” every day. They can be used in a much larger sense in all real life situations—and WOW what a difference it makes!

    I appreciate everyone here and love reading and learning from all of you. I’ve always been a “stuffer”—very afraid of my own feelings. After they’d build up to where I couldn’t contain them anymore I would ‘explode’ all over the place–with little bits of toxic drama in between—the result of trying so hard NOT to accept or let on what I was really feeling.

    By learning about feeling messages, I’ve been able to nearly eliminate all drama from my life—even with people who I’d always felt were ‘causing’ most of the drama. A feeling message (or sometimes a question) and the walkaway. Perfection. No more getting sucked into other peoples’ drama and no more being controlled by my own! Sweet!

    I know this will go into moderation, so I’ll keep reading and learning and being amazed!


  126.  #126Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Truthfully, I don’t understand the trigger bc I don’t feel upset at all when ppl don’t resonate with my advice or my experience – so I have a hard time getting why it bothers you so much. But I feel bad that I am part of this trigger for you.

  127.  #127Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Hi Flowerchild! You sound great! <3 Lucy

  128.  #128Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Honestly, I actually made a conscious effort to try to share my “shutting down” revelation in a non-triggering way… and I feel disappointed that I failed. πŸ™

  129.  #129Ella on May 9, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Wow just catching up on the thread from yesterday.

    What a lot of arguing and triggering.

    Have not got to the end yet and I hope people got lots of healing from the muddy pond style process.

    I do feel drained sometimes when I see what looks to me like lots of ‘logic’ and arguements used. Because that is not what the blog is about for me.

    And I would never want to feel the pressure to ignore my feelings for the sake of keeping the peace. So opposite of what I am trying to do here.

    I love that this blog is a place of feelings and authenticity.

    And I am glad that the dynamics have moved on today and it feels good seeing how things morph and change, just like in real life!

  130.  #130Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Thank you Dorothea for drinking water
    Thank you for letting me cry. It made me feel much much better when i was done.
    Thank you for completing tasks at work thoroughly and with a smile
    Thank you for not letting it get to me personally that my boss criticized me.
    Thank you for saving money and taking the bus
    Thank you for having lunch with my friend. That felt fun and like a nice relief from “regular life.”
    Thank you for being brave and telling that man I was feeling upset and afraid.
    Thank you for keeping an open heart to his response and allowing him to do his part to contribute to my happiness
    Thank you for chanting mantra
    Thank you for putting me first lately
    Thank you for washing more of my clothes last night.
    Thank you for being open to doing more productive things.

  131.  #131Daria on May 9, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Lucy – that feels bad…

    well, i felt safe and connected reading that you feel sad

    and then suddenly WHAM

    I feel SUPER angry reading that you feel “peeved and exhasperated” (riff about this in the next post below that may be very triggering and you don’t have to read)

    i don’t feel safe or trusting…

    my suggestion to myself was that i will stop offering you help when it doesn’t feel safe for me to do so.. I usually get a icky feeling before posting something that i don’t think will be well received

    (feels a bit confusing because… sometimes i think my FEELINGS in other situations won’t be well received, but i guess i owe it to ME to express my feelings, while i don’t owe it to me to “give” help)

    then you can continue to do your work without my interfering

  132.  #132Daria on May 9, 2011 at 5:16 pm


    i don’t believe you actually – my inner guess is that you feel really angry about something but are toning it down

    (this is my perception, whats actually going on for me on my side over here. it may not be what’s going on for you. you may be expressing your total truth and for some reason i don’t feel safe or trusting to read it, it doesn’t feel good.

    maybe it’s me who feels scared of someone feeling angry at me …

    i feel put down i guess that someone says they feel exhasperated with me, it triggers memories of me not doing things “right” and being put down while trying to please that person… and their feeling “exhasperated” with my “incompetence”

    ok this is startinng to shift for me

    maybe you feel exhasperated

    ok yeah i bet you do

    and i feel embarassed and outraged reading that because it transports me to that scenario

    ‘peeved and exhasperated’

    ok i reread. i would feel safe if you said angry

    i get the impression you fake down your anger.

    thats what comes up for me reading that. at that point *I* feel really really angry and outraged.

    i feel curious what that’s about

    maybe im picking up your vibes? or maybe im being put in that scenario

    i just don’t trust you or the “slightly” “peeved” or “exhasperated” words

    i have an image of a lady talking to children and not really allowing herself to express anything but “nice” and “polite”

    and i feel very angry

    yeah i feel attacked actually by those words

    it’s like TOTAL DISCONNECT…



    FAKENESS. DO NOT TRUST!! DO NOT TRUST!! comes up for me

    DO NOT TRUST THIS LADY! she will do whatever she thinks is “nice” and polite and ignore your feelings, just tell you “there” “there” and not really paying attention to you, not really even aware of her own feelings…

    this lady is a doormat and that is DANGEROUS because underneath that stuff is untouched stuff that will come out without her even being aware or aknowledging it and harm you…

    this may be why im feeling so OUTRAGED right now -of why Rori says men will actually get angry at a woman in a situation where she is feeling angry and instead she stuffs and acts like she’s not

    you know, this really reminds me of how sometimes my relationship with my mom has been

    when she’s “acting nice” but seems tense and upset instead.

    it feels like NOT SAFE!

    watch out this lady will suddenly attack you with sarcasm

    or else i “blow” and yell at her

    ugh this feels awful!

    but awesome to notice


  133.  #133FlowerChild77 on May 9, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    How do we change the pink flower to another avatar?

  134.  #134Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    lol daria, i am loving the disclaimers at the beginning AND end.

    i feel soooo uncomfortable reading your riffs sometimes, because there are a lot of flat out “you do this and that and this is really what’s happening for you,” and i have to tell myself over and over that it’s a riff, you’re processing and accepting that your usual thought pattern might actually lead to somewhere else, where said thought becomes no longer true.

    i am almost always successful in reminding myself this, but i feel indignant and shocked and outraged on behalf of people who have a much harder time reading the words.

    when i dont personally feel ruffled, if i dont feel indignant for others who do and i can understand why, then i am a bad person.

    when i feel indignant it is because there is unjustice. if i don’t stand up against it, i might as well tell its victims that they are crazy and wrong and should be ashamed of themselves for thinking and feeling how they do. and i can’t do that because i can see the injustice with my own eyes even though i relate to it entirely differently myself.

    welcome to my belief fest

  135.  #135Daria on May 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Dorothea – hehe thanks!

    yeah this riff is one of the shifting ones. like i really shifted half way, and started shifting even more towards the end and saw stuff happenign with my mother

    i also think the stuff about “giving” although my intuition is saying NO, this won’t be well received, is also a mirror of what happens with my mother, when she ‘gives’ to me when i’m feleing closed yet

    it feels like she’s stepping all over my ENERGETIC FUCHKIN NO!

    and ‘giving’ to me anyway

    here it’s ME stepping over someone else’s (or my own?) energetic Fuchkin NO and giving anyway

    even though the information is good, and relevant

    like Daria your bill is due today


    it’s MY BILL!!!

    ok love me and dressing to ride out to DUI class

  136.  #136Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    if i let people just fend for themselves when i can see where i could help, i am a bad person

    ah ha. that is a d*mn lie (just realizing right now)

    it’s that i don’t think people CAN fend for themselves, so i HAVE to help them.

    there’s more…

    i don’t think people can fend for themselves, and if i don’t help them, they’re more likely to fail


    if i don’t help them, they’re more likely to fail, and seeing others fail makes me feel angry and turned off.


    i feel myself pulling towards something about seeing the failure as my own and self-worth, but i’m out of steam for now.

  137.  #137Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    I notice a lot of people in the world who don’t usually offer advice or help or defense or suggestions unless specifically asked. and then it turned out they had a great answer and all someone had to do is make it clear they wanted it.

    that would make me feel so uncomfortable to do. have someone tell me all about a problem they’re having and not offer a suggestion? EEP.

    but i guess there’s a difference between venting about a problem and seeking help for a problem. it is probably safe a lot of the time to ASSUME that one’s venting equates the desire for a solution, period, regardless of who offers it and all that.

    all problems require solutions.

    solutions need to be implemented urgently or else life will suck.

    belief fest

  138.  #138Ella on May 9, 2011 at 5:51 pm


    Go to and upload a pic. It will then follow you around the internet on anything you post.

    I think Rori has a post on it. Maybe in her misc category…

    PS thanks for the encouragement!


  139.  #139DE on May 9, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Laughing Goddess #37:

    U are very welcome πŸ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  140.  #140Queenbee on May 9, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    RE: 121 – Daria, thanks for that! LOL! πŸ™‚ I’m so funny…

    Anyway, I guess I felt guilty or chose to lean forward coz when he came back from vacay and contacted me I ignored him right through my birthday –

    And then he was upset that I wouldn’t speak to him on my bday.

    I guess I felt worried that he may not contact me again.

    Yeah, I’m noticing how my life is filled with worry….

    I’m also noticing how I don’t allow myself to sit with my feelings until they disappear on their own. πŸ™‚

    LOL! No wonder his message was so cold – “thank you. Have a lovely day”. – LOL! So funny πŸ™‚

    Anyway, I guess it’s whatever.

    I feel better knowing this now….

    Thanks Daria!


  141.  #141Ella on May 9, 2011 at 6:06 pm


    I feel worried about writing this and yet I was hoping you might comment on some of my posts.

    I feel worried/anxious cus that feels like an expectation on my part.

    And the situation triggers me bc I am kind of used to hearing your voice on things I post, and I look forward to recieving it. And it taps into that insecurity I have that of someone doesn’t respond as I expect them to or want them to then it must be because I have done something bad/wrong.

    It reminds me of when I text a friend and they don’t text back soon and I get all kinds of NVs telling me it is cus I have done something or cus they don’t like me.

    And I feel worried of appearing needy.

    Ow, triggerific for me…

    Well I love my neediness.

    I feel worried of being percieved as ‘selfish’ bc of asking for attention. Or controlling. And I don’t want that.

    And I love my worry of other people’s percieved (probably sometimes made up) disapproval of me.

    But I love and accept myself.

    And I know the places I am judging myself, and the places I am judging others, and therefore the places I am expecting to be judged.

    Ow thank you for letting this stuff come up for me.

    All cus one of the Siren’s who I respect did not behave in a way I expected she would.

    Thanks for giving me the chance to validate myself.

    And allowing myself to feel needy.

    I love my neediness, and my insecurity.

    It tells me I am human and I care.

    And I love my percieved ‘F’ ups in my life… who knows what they really are.

    And there is still something here for me to learn.
    About what behaviour would feel more comfortable to me in the future, in similar scenarios.

    Gone off at a tangent now to what this post started as and still helping me process my current ‘stuff’.

    So thank you.


  142.  #142DE on May 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Ella #141:

    Wow…such as sweet and vulnerable post to Daria…i feel tearful cause I feel the same way sometimes…i love the way u expressed yourself…thank you for sharing u beautiful self πŸ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  143.  #143Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    “that feels bad” doesn’t seem like an authentic FM to me. What is “that”? FM’s are about what the Person is feeling. So, “I feel bad” seems more authentic to me, less other-directed, less blamey, and thus more powerful for self-expression and success in relationship. To me it is a subtle yet significant difference. <3

  144.  #144Ella on May 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    @ Beyonce/Jayzee song lyrics:

    ‘You need to stop playing round with all the clowns and the wanksters…’

    This just keeps popping back into my head at the moment when I think of my own situation in relation to some of the men from the pub and guys I choose to date!

    Then I feel kinda naughty and giggly and judgemental.

    And I love it!

  145.  #145DE on May 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Lucy #143:

    LOL…Think of dodge ball…u are dodging a ball saying “that feels bad” instead “i feel bad”…lol

    Okay, okay…that’s again my sense of humor…:)

    Warm hugs,

  146.  #146Ella on May 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Sirens I am feeling very tired right now. So going to get some shut eye.

    Relaxing Siren rest in my lovely comfortable bed, in my lovely new room that I feel so comfortable and happy in.

    Night Siren Island.


  147.  #147Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    i would be interested in what you think about this exchange on real housewives. one woman is using feeling messages and the other woman gets really upset. i’m sooo curious. please watch and tell me what you think!

  148.  #148Ella on May 9, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    DE re 142,

    Awww, thanks!

    Feels good to be accepted.


  149.  #149Queenbee on May 9, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Wow! Ella, I’m loving your vibe!!


  150.  #150Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Lol Daria. Not laughing at your pain, but at your judgments. Lol. It totally must be projection bc “doormat” is as far from an accurate description of me as you can get, so it really strikes me as funny. Same with “playing nice.” I often Wish I had the ability to be “nice” and “fake” – but I literally do not, and am well-known as the most genuine and honest person in the room. Noticing now that I am “defending.” I feel sad to be perceived as the total opposite of who I am. I feel unseen and unknown. I feel

  151.  #151Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    angry that these judgments are being published on a blog. I feel angry bc I think I am being lied about. I feel pissed to have my Feelings unbelieved! I feel sorry for someone who doesn’t seem to get that one can feel things genuinely yet Not be Run by those feelings! I feel concerned about what I just wrote being a judgment and I am sorry for it.

  152.  #152Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    I feel hella pissed when Daria publishes her judgments of me. I don’t care if she hides them in “riffs” – I still don’t like it. I don’t want to be judged. I hate being judged. I wish Daria would stop judging me. I hope she heals this trigger soon or at least learns to riff without judging.

  153.  #153Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Hi Lucy, welcome to this blog and the hissing and spitting contests that go on here. I used to feel all upset but no more. Underneath all that is just girls that feel hurt and afraid.

  154.  #154Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Okay, I am now taking Rori’s “no contact” advice and asking you, Daria, to not write about me anymore, in any way. I hope you will respect my boundary. I would like to be able to write on the blog without being side-tracked by your reactions to my life. Thank you.

  155.  #155Lily T. on May 9, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    #144 Ella:

    “β€˜You need to stop playing round with all the clowns and the wanksters…’”

    Exactly so girlfriend. πŸ™‚

  156.  #156Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    145 DE, I’m not getting what you mean… would like to though, so do you mind explaining? Thx <3

  157.  #157DE on May 9, 2011 at 7:00 pm


    Ups, I feel very sorry…I thought u were joking too…I just realized u were not πŸ™

    I feel sad now…my apology…

    Warm hugs,

  158.  #158Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    I had a really weird experience. I have been gone a while from this blog because I felt I had some serious personal problems, which I got a lot of great advice and I needed to run off and deal with. I also kept staying up very late and talking on this blog but I was very sleep deprived and I think I said some really weird stupid stuff. I was really embarrassed. Anyway, life is better now, I stopped the crazy sleep hours, began to clean up my home and actually do my artwork.

    Anyway I gave a really good feeling speech to my bf, one that seemed just perfect for me and he is behaving like it never happened. When I repeated it, he kept trying to side step it and change the subject. I got no where. I refused to come visit him and a while later he calls me like nothing happened and saying I missed all this fun stuff by not visiting. Excuse me, pal I am talking about my life. In the past I would of felt devastated and in massive tears on this blog but I kept thinking of Rori using the phrase “horse crap” like he knows full well what I am talking about and is playing stupid. I dont feel bad. I feel like he is silly. I could not believe I went off and had a nice day by myself and got lots of spring cleaning done. I loved the feeling I got by sticking up for myself and not going to visit . He could not believe it. “But it is your birthday, I want to take you here and there and dinner and this and that.” I was going to buy you this and that. But now I won’t.” Huh? Tomorrow is my birthday and now you are telling me you were going to buy this and that and just yesterday I told you not to come and get me? I did my best to be firm . then he acted miffed . He does not seem to get it. For some reason it did not upset me. Because I think he does get it. He gets it real well and he thought he could bamboozle me again and keep stringing me along with “I love yous and presents” but avoiding talking about a future. This after several years of being with him. Now he cant. Rori said when you see their real motives your interest starts to fade. I think she is right. Any commentos?
    Here was the speech:

    I wanted to be with you on my birthday, see the broadway show, laugh, have fun, just like we always do. But when talk of a future and marriage come up you walk away or are extremely vague. The pain of this makes me feel me feel insecure and frustrated, it has been distracting me for awhile about where to go in life, because whatever I did decide would impact the relationship, it even indirectly affected my ability to finish artwork. You are entitled to take all the time you need to decide about committing to a lifelong relationship with me but right now it appears, your life plans, do not include me. So I have decided to take care of myself and now have plans for myself. I have cleaned my home and studio beautifully and am now comfortable finishing my artwork. Its flourishing. I was depressed and upset at the situation but now I am at peace now. If you change your mind by all means contact me to see if I am still available. But in the mean time if nothing has changed, I am requesting you do not contact me. These are my boundaries and terms and I will not budge.

  159.  #159Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Nanceen – I like it. Nice boundaries. πŸ™‚

  160.  #160Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Nanceen 153. Thank you for the reminder about what’s underneath. I forget that sometimes. <3

  161.  #161Lily T. on May 9, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Nanceen I really liked that. And I like your vibe. πŸ™‚

  162.  #162gina on May 9, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Nanceen, good for you, and i feel inspired to see if I know D’s “motives” – umm I sense that he does love me but he’s angry at me because he felt rejected and hurt and he feels unwilling to treat me as well as he did because he thinks I treated him unfairly. He worries that I don’t love him enough because he’s not worthy. He feels determined to be “great” and sometimes longs for a future with me, but isn’t sure how we’d get there because he’s unwilling to treat me well right now. And yet he wants me around because he likes the comfort of an intimate (if imaginary) relationship with a woman. He also has a hard time letting me go because he thought we were “meant to be,” and still wonders about it. He dislikes how negative I am towards him, but he craves my emotions and vibe in general. He knows he isn’t willing to step up right now, he’s getting a kick out of feeling power in his new position, he feels women and men of all kinds having new respect and admiration for him. He’s feeling tons of fear that goes along with “greatness” and prestige. He feels ashamed of all the drinking he’s doing. he feels unwilling to stop. He doesn’t want to hear from me about it. He doesn’t want me to know about it. There’s something else or two he doesn’t want me to know, but I don’ know what – some sort of secret that makes him act WEIRD sometimes. He resents me for the guilt he feels for eating and drinking too much. He wants to have a nice harmonious family life – but it’s becoming more of a fantasy than a possibility. He doesn’t like that I have negative feelings about him. Any negative feelings from me, shake his confidence about whether I’m the one. He’s not contacting me right now because he doesn’t want to hear my negative feelings about how he’s treated me bad. He knows he’s treated me bad, and he’s glad that I see the difference between him treating me like “gold” and not – he hopes I’m sorry for not sticking with him. Even though he knows it’d be a disaster if I was there. He does hate to hear me upset, and yet he’s not willing to “give in” to me. He has put his allegiance towards his company and his pals and is unwilling to give me much more than his dick if he was here, otherwise he’ll spare a thought, text or phone call.. he doesn’t even know why, he denies any anger to himself even. He wants to use me for feelings of connectedness and validity, and he’s annoyed that I won’t cooperate – and yet he likes that about me. He hates to hear that I’m upset, and part of him wants to take care of me, and the other part of him feels scared of all my feelings and emotions. And he feels safer immersing himself in his work and in his drinking than in actually having to deal with my feelings. and since I keep expressing my feelings instead of providing for his needs, he feels angry because he’s very needy right now, and so he is done with me for now.

  163.  #163gina on May 9, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Yay, I do feel a lighter indifference and clarity.

  164.  #164Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    So, okay, here’s my story. I have now been back on OK Cupid for a while, and I had a couple of interesting “dates” over the weekend. Okay, one big heck of a date, on Saturday. One Skype “date” (which was more of a flirtation), and one phone call.

    The date was FABulous. Guy took me to tea and dim sum at a fancy place in the city. Then he managed to get me to join him on his scooter to ride to Golden Gate park to find the Bison – because I told him that I’d always wanted to do that since I moved here (he had some other plans and he changed them for me:). he said what was cool about me was that I looked people in the eye when I was talking to them. We got along, I think, on an intellectual, and perhaps even a spiritual level, even though he is currently “seeking,” but we have similar backgrounds. He’s an awesome, energetic guy – and he works in the mental health field as a counselor. So all around a good guy. EXCEPT – he lives two hours away (he drove all that way just to see me!!), and – here’s the kicker: There was no ‘spark’ for me. Boo πŸ™ At one point, I saw the way he was looking at me, and I thought he was thinking of kissing me. But I didn’t go for it. When we left at the end of the date, we just gave each other a big hug. I waited a day, and then wrote him a letter telling him how much I enjoyed it, but that I didn’t think it was going to work for me. I hope I wasn’t too hard on him.:( I really feel bad. It’s among the better dates that I’ve had this year. Why couldn’t it be that I had massive sparks flying?!?

    The guy I was on Skype with is clearly not offering anything meaningful. I get a sexual thrill, because he’s very hot. But I’m even getting turned off by that, because that seems to be the ONLY thing he is offering. And that makes me feel kind of icky.

    The other guy is an academic, and seems to be in a little bubble about that. He also has a very “slow” pace. We’ve been messaging/chatting for a while, and he hadn’t even mentioned the possibility of meeting. Finally, last night, I had to ask him if that was something he was interested in. I get the feeling he is sort of tentative or shy, and I’m not trying to rush things. But I don’t want to waste my time either. We did have a nice phone call, though. He does a lot of “small talk.” And I don’t do “small talk” very well.

    Meanwhile…Ooh, bad me. My thoughts keep wandering back to this other guy. My Diwali, who came out of the blue, and then disappeared, just as suddenly and myseriously. But – for comparison – whereas this Skype guy (who is comparable in a lot of ways, in terms of attractiveness and “success” level) is offering me basically nothing, Diwali really wanted to give me a lot. He was always talking about ways he would please me. How he would give to me. Things he would do for me, to make me happy. It felt so good, and yet, I think I just couldn’t accept it. In fact, I wonder, how do I accept something like that? When it is a hypothetical, I feel, okay, that is nice. It is a nice thought. But it might never happen. I feel doubt. Maybe the doubt is what kills it. I feel sad. I feel sad for pushing away a man who was both sexy and attractive to me AND was attracted to me and wanted to give to me.

    I have not been contacting him because that would feel like “leaning forward” to me. But it was strange, one day last week, when I found myself thinking about how much he had been attracted to me, and then I saw that he had been on my visitor’s list on OKC. So I wondered about that. I hadn’t heard from him. But there he was, looking. I wonder what I would do if he contacted me? But I am doing nothing. I am going to go out and dance and have fun – for ME. Because I am special. Because I like me. And because I deserve to be happy!

    Thanks for listening πŸ™‚

  165.  #165Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    But you dont feel like crap do you Gina? I hope not.

    It seems like when we really hit the nail on the head about what we really truly feel and even if they dont respond, you feel lighter.

    I keep waiting to feel crushed and devastated but I dont. I feel like my feelings were things that are worthy of being fufilled. And just because he does not want to means they are less. Like if you see someone shoplift a diamond necklace, you have no problem knowing it is flat out wrong. You dont feel confused about the issue.

    I dont feel like I respect him a lot. But not in an angry way. I am seeing him in kind of a different light. Almost like he is stupid. I enjoy feeling safe and secure. Hey thats a first. I used to always equate love with fear!!. Hmm all that bible reading and Rori must be sinking in. Its like I dont even care if he does not want to step up to the plate, if he doesnt I dont feel kind of bored!! And this after roughly five years!! wow!!

  166.  #166Turquoise3 on May 9, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Earlier today I was reminded that I’m supposed to be making room in my life for my “sweetie” so I cleaned off the passenger seat in my car, and talked out loud to myself, saying…. “Geez, need to make some room so sweetie has a place to sit.” Then I rethought that, and decided I’d be sitting there, and he’d be driving. I don’t like to drive men, I want them to drive me. πŸ™‚

    That’s my contribution to the blog today, feeling pretty worn out from yesterday. I did read all the comments here. Hope everyone sleeps well tonight.

  167.  #167Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    I hope Rori reads this when she gets back!! After all my tearful hysterical letters and blogging. It all comes down to “he is a dope to try and bamboozle me and I am okay” LOL

  168.  #168Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 8:01 pm


    You sampled some goodies and dont have to decide if you like them. Now its time for little girl to go out and play and dance till she is tired and come home and sleep well.

  169.  #169Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Nanceen, yay i love power speeches.

    i think it needs some trimming down. i don’t think you need to speech him to tell him you cleaned your work space and all that. you do that for you and your own vibe, not to prove anything to HIM or make him think something or hope he’ll react a certain way

    i am confused about the birthday thing…did you tell him not to bother about your birthday at some point? when was that?

  170.  #170Queenbee on May 9, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    I feel angry leaning forward

    I love my leaning forwardness

    I feel angry ‘messing up’ the tools

    I love my messiness

    I feel angry not caring about leaning forward

    Why should I care?

    After all it’s just leaning forward and a gal’s gotta do what a gal’s gotta do when she feels like it

    I hate blame

    I hate feeling like I need to be upset for leaning forward

    The world didn’t come to an end

    I don’t want to be afraid anymore of if he’ll call or if he won’t

    I just want to be me

    Happy, messy me!

    I feel overwhelmed… by all the tools and inner work

    I feel overwhelmed ‘not getting it right’

    Yet, I think I got it perfectly right

    Because I chose powerfully and I did what I wanted

    Whether it felt feminine or masculine

    I did what I wanted in the moment and that feels good

    It may not be the tools

    He may not call/ come back to me

    Part of me feels like I won’t quit till I finally push him out of my life

    I feel scared knowing this

    I feel scared not knowing what I want

    I feel angry resisting him so much

    I feel angry at being obsessed about all of this

    I felt better when I had nothing to worry about ‘like a man’

    I feel good being in my passion

    I feel afraid of going away into my passion for the next few months and not seeing him

    If there is still a him to see

    I feel better with gray areas

    I don’t want to shut down –

    I don’t want to close off

    I’m afraid he’s not the ‘right’ man

    What does it matter – it’s all practice

    I feel angry at ‘practice’

    I don’t want to practice anymore

    I either want it or I don’t

    I don’t have time for practice

    I don’t want to give my time to practice

    I’m going to bed – tired and sleepy… not getting anywhere with this….

    Feeling unworthy issues alert! ICK!

    I love myself… all of myself.

    I love my unworthiness!!

  171.  #171Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Nanceen – Thanks! teehee! πŸ™‚

    The dancing actually isn’t until next week, but I’m looking forward to it now, and I *know* it is going to be a good time with my awesome friends – and lots of other ‘goodies’ to dance with! πŸ˜‰

  172.  #172Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    I <3 dancing. Maybe tonight I will dance to myself. And/or take a nice bath to love me up:)

  173.  #173Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    feeling anxious, nanceen, that you might not be much an invitation to him or overfunctioning by not letting him lead. leaning forward and overfunctioning, especially in cases like this one, can account for 90% of all problems (another siren once stated this, can’t remember which one)

    if he really is a dope who is bamboozling u, i’m not sure why you want to give him an ultimatum… just stop answering the phone.

    but if you secretly want things to work, there is some work involved.


    i don’t feel like much of a mentor these days..feeling unworthy from my own personal rollercoaster. and i could completely be projecting.

    but if it resonates with u i hope this helps!

  174.  #174Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm


    Actually I that was the untrimmed version, the original I was too lazy to go and open my email again. I one he got in an email and the one I read on the phone was smaller.

    I told him about three days ago. Tomorrow is my birthday. It was my birthday present to myself. I

  175.  #175gina on May 9, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I feel a little concerned for Daria.
    I support Lucy in setting boundaries.
    I do believe that Daria was tapping into some murky territory and getting clarity. Don’t know if it had anything to do with Lucy, but I do feel grateful for Daria for her honesty. I’m not sure how I’d feel if those riffs were about me. But a part of me senses that I would be curious about the truth of what she’s feeling. I think I’d be curious if there was something dishonest or stuck on my end. And maybe i’d be grateful to her for going there with me. Or maybe I’d feel violated and imposed upon and misunderstood and unwilling to participate. I guess I feel some sort of in sync-ness with Daria, so I feel willing to hear from her. I can totally see, if I felt a little out of sync, that it would be brutal to read stuff about myself that I didnt’ agree with. And since Lucy doesn’t always see eye to eye with Daria, I can sense how infuriating it’d be to feel “not allowed” to think, feel or be different.
    Why do I feel concerned? Why did I feel so defensive yesterday? I guess because I believe I sorta think/operate similarly to Daria. I get trigerred and react largely to things. And I’m never quite sure if I’m projecting or reacting. Yet, I often find that I was reacting to something real. And I feel validated, but then also concerned that I manifested the problem – like a self fulfilling prophesy. And I have alienated people, and felt a little sad and lonely about it. But self righteous and proud, too. I have experienced an improvement lately – by avoiding discord in general…ooh that feels like an aha moment. I can have all the negative feelings, but I can AVOID DISCHORD. can’t I? I think I can!!! yay, I’m going to be more conscious of avoiding dischord. Somehow that word is feeling good for me…even though I’m almost certain I am misspelling it.
    Daria – I feel compassion for you!

  176.  #176gina on May 9, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Okay, I felt all fine and good about D, UNTIL i started to consider that maybe I’m not hearing from him because of another woman. And that feels sad and bad. But then I guess I can remind myself that it really doesn’t matter and that it’s none of my business and that it doesn’t help me to think about it. urgh having to force my brain away from topic… tough…to …do…okay! gonna clean and do stuff. boo hoo! I want another guy to like!!

  177.  #177gina on May 9, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Nanceen, I totally get the “he’s just a Dope!” what was I worried about?? sentiment…Dorothea, you sure you don’t feel that way about your guy? sorry if i’m coming off judgemental, but I feel frustrated FOR you…the exhausting communication feels familiar. I hope for better!!! I actually hope D isn’t the “one” cause that would be a drag…

  178.  #178Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 8:25 pm


    Actually I that was the untrimmed version, the original I was too lazy to go and open my email again. I one he got in an email and the one I read on the phone was smaller.

    I dont feel any anxiety. That is what feels puzzling. I dont ever call or email. Its very rare I do. I learned that about two years ago with Rori and it was tough but gradually he started to call like clockwork.

    I told him about three days ago, no more visiting. Tomorrow is my birthday. It was my birthday present to myself. I JUST COULD NOT TOLERATE ONE MORE SECOND OF FEELING INSECURE IN HIS PRESENCE or being in a relationship where I did not know where it was going. I cant explain how good it feels to have resisted going to visit once again hoping I get what I need. I feel like a fly that will not land on a hot stove. I was sick of listening to my sister, and friend who think it is fine, fine, oh just be nicer, keep going, giving. I dont care if Rori would say it was fine (I know she wouldn’t) I FELT SHITTY. when I stay away I feel better. When I visit and leave I feel like shit. I found out I dont need to name it, analyze it or blame it. I staying away where I feel safe and happy.

  179.  #179Tmizz on May 9, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    For anyone else who’s been feeling “low value” today, I just watched this EFT video and tapped along.

    I actually teared up while doing it. It felt good.

    I might practice doing this one every day…

  180.  #180Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Lucy I like your voice here too. I sense it as mostly graceful. Sorry you were in pain today. I felt it escalating as I read your comments. Just want to remind you that you do have choices which includes not interacting ifit does not feel good to you. I would suggest looking for your peaceful place regardless of what happens on the outside. Because of Rori’s words in the article I was hoping this thread would be mostly around love and harmony. Could I encourage you not to get sucked into the drama. The interview with Russel last month spoke about that I would review it if I were you. I keep review them until the next one arrives. Wishing you a peaceful night.

  181.  #181Dorothea on May 9, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Gina – yeah for sure.
    Nanceen – i see. i am so glad u r taking peace in your life. i am so glad u r taking care of yourself!

  182.  #182gina on May 9, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    a little epiphany: maybe the “resistance” people are expressing about riffing on here is that to do it without regard for how people are going to receive it is to deny the reality that this is a public forum, and complete raw honesty may be cathartic but detrimental to relationships here. And I guess then it’s just where you’re values lie. Hmm…maybe there’s a different tool to use when it comes to conflict here (other than riffing) riffing seems ideal as something to do AWAY from the conflict, for an individual’s purpose of sorting out. And HERE may be a great place to sort out feelings about what happens OUT THERE. But riffing about people here inevitably seems to cause conflict, and I think riffing is about effectively handling our own stuff so we can effective RESOLVE conflict. Cause I just can’t imagine that after putting all that effort into trying to help, that Daria’s goal was to harm her relationship with Lucy. Daria, what do you think? Or how are you feeling about it?

  183.  #183Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    RE 152 and 182 gina I did not read all the posts but I can tell you that since I have been experiencing Lucy here I have sensed change and growth. For me it shows maturity around and that the tools are working. That gives me encouragement to continue working here. I believe that relationships require respect and though our words might trigger someone here at times I wish the experience would be more soothing. I can’t see the purpose of dramatic spewing.

  184.  #184Femininewoman on May 9, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    I wonder what happened to “truth without compassion is not truth”.

  185.  #185Daria on May 9, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Thanks Gina –

    I feel pretty good and powerful and I also feel a but sad under that…

    I feel good about myself in that there’s not much more I can do to avoid my process triggering others than enclose it w warnings and also talk about how this is what’s going on For Me. And it may not be what’s going on for anyone else.

    This riff I think was about a situation with my mother.

    I also feel a lil concerned with myself cuz I’m like damn if this is my truth and people are soooo indignant about what really goes on for me then maybe I’m really effed up! But I also know that’s not true.

    I don’t like being asked to do something to enforce someone Elses boundary, in fact I feel angry being asked things like that.

    It’s like, enforce your own damn boundary! Don’t tell me what to do or ask me to do stuff for you! I’m not obligated to stop speaking to or anyone!

    Right now though, I feel excited cuz that is just what I had decided to do anyway when I said I would quit offering my ‘help’. And it feels amusing in a judgmental way to be asked to do something I just said earlier I was gona do.

    Like hey I’m not gona comment on your stuff!

    Oh yeah! Well don’t comment on my stuff!

    I also feel annoyed that I’m getting attacked and blamed for stuff I clearly indicated that does not need to be read by people triggered.

    And so what if these images come up for me? I have a fuchkin right to my images and to express them. Other people don’t have to take it personally because, it was just a trigger from them and it spun out from there.


    I’m tAlking a lot.

    How do I feel?

    I guess I feel numb.

    And I feel angry.

    And I feel scared.

    And I feel happy!

    Am excited to see what happens for me by not offering ‘help’ where it doesnt feel good to..,

    Ok I feel confused because a Lot of times I feel scared to offer help.

    I feel curious what Rori can say to help me more with all the ‘lightning rod’ stuff from the past few days.

    I feel all proud and powerful thinking of myself out there alone braving the storm and exploring uncharted stuff…

    And I also feel alone and self doubtful..,

    Not that I don’t have support because I do and I feel supported… But sometimes I feel

    ‘ahead’ of others – this is a pattern for me and I feel alone.

    Super embarrased and afraid to admit this.

    Like I feel ‘better than’ and I feel alone.

    And I imagine if I were at same level as everyone else *mental concepts not reality as everyone is unique* I would feel part of a group and connected and happy singing.

    And that doesn’t really happen I don’t think, I still feel alone and push to get out ‘ahead’

    It’s like super if/ or dualistic thinking.

    Doesn’t really even feel good.

    What if I felt really good about myself special And included.

    That would feel much better even tho I don’t know what that would look like… Yes I do I can imagine even if I’m afraid it’s unrealistic (probably way more realistic than dualistic thinking)

    Love to me!

    Thanks for the love!

  186.  #186Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Dor been with him roughly five years. I did lots of Rori stuff, got lots of good progress and results (he says I love you, gifts me, met friends, wine, dine, flowers, some closeness) but now I dont even want an inkling of insecurity. I was willing to put up with some fear before but now I dont want to.

    He calls and I get the impression he thinks he is kind of being smooth. LOL. I told him what I wanted and what I was ready for. And he acts like he did not hear. And then he calls up and acts like it is business as usual. I used to cave in, in the past. I have been through this a few times before. This is the first time I refused to go. I actually have been thinking aboutit for about a month. His birthday was a month ago. I went, we had a wonderful time. It didnt seem right to do it then. But a month later it is my birthday. The insecurities are still there. He is ignoring what I have said. Nothing has changed. I knew I could go, have a great time, be given money, gifts, attention but no security or future. There is a look, a vibe I know needs to be there. It isnt.

    He is trying to persuade me to keep on going. In the past I would of. I lived on hope. Now I want reality. Reality feels good. Hope feels icky. Rori wants us to feel so good about ourselves we dont have a problem walking away. I dont know if that is what is going on but I know now, it is feels better to be away from him than sitting next to him feeling insecure. I dont want to fix it. I dont want to do anything. I feel scared and insecure trying to make it feel secure. I feel like I kept stepping of of my boat and falling and almost dying in the water. I am staying in my safe boat and he can get in and row if he wants. If not I am perfectly content in my safe, dry, snug and secure seaworthy boat. I used to feel miserable and angry and anxious sitting alone in my boat. Now I dont. It feels safe and strong. I cant believe there is NO anxiety. You would think ate a bottle of prozac. It feels whole. He can join my wholeness. Not me leaving mine. I like mine.

    turq: when you get out of your car, always think “gee I need to put the seat back for my sweetie for when he drives the car”. Make sure you have a double bed at least. buy a large turkey roasting pan. you will be making more food when he is there. Buy two christmast stockings. Put your name on one. Leave the other blank. They will be used someday!

  187.  #187Daria on May 9, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Gina I actually believe that ruffing on a public forum encourages more people to do so honestly.

    Honesty is raw and as Rori teaches it is easy and ugly sonetimes.

    Here we practice being honest and Showing that honesty not hiding it.

    I actually did not have the guts to tell my truth even little emotions until Rori encouraged it.

    I feel surprised Lucy even read the riff since it was labeled w warnings, and even more surprised her and and others seem to think it had something to do with her. It doesnt and it Says so.

    I actually think my relationship w Lucy will be healed by this shifting and is starting to already. I am setting some boundaries for myself to not interact in a way that feels bad to me.

    I feel good about myself and not in a me over her way either, just really clear that this was about me, i feel empowered and it empowers others and it’s what we’re here for, authenticity and growth.

    I remember people were judging me awhile back, for like post after post, I did the walk away from reading posts for the very first time and was actually feeling like super great while people were judging my lifestyle choices back and forth with each other. It doesn’t seem possible that I would feel good but I was and to me this was not even a judgemental post. It says nothing about Lucy and only about images that got triggered for me reading her words right then.

    The images weren’t even of her, it was an elderly heavy set lady taking care if children which is very different than the mental image I have of Lucy herself.

    I feel angry that people are like ‘no shut it down’ too real… I imagine their nvs do that to them, I’ve seem healing happen that way, people attack others when the other person does something their own nvs would criticize them for.

    But if the other person cones from a healed empowered place, then they feel liberated too after that.

    It’s happened with my mom (how dare you walk away!! At first. Don’t you think it’s bad to just focus on feelings? Abd then shift to her doing those things as well when I stayed on my path)

    Also hypothetically like, look at her! Her skirt is do short! OMG!

    But then next week I remember it and feel a oil freer to wear a short skirt too.

    Love to me again, and everyone else.

  188.  #188Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    I never did get the riffing thing. I just come here to unload, get advice and see if I can help anyone.

    Fem woman: β€œtruth without compassion is not truth”. right, nothing worse than getting “slammed” with the truth. You can hear the truth but you need gentleness to accept it.

  189.  #189Nanceen on May 9, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Daria no one should of been judging you back and forth in a public forum. If they wanted to talk about you, they should of done it privately. I think that is meant to post stuff about other people. Then it stays permanently out there.

  190.  #190Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Daria I did not ask you to enforce my boundary – I asked you to Respect it. There is a difference, and learning to respect people’s boundaries is very important for people who want to have healthy marriages. This “no contact” request is one of Rori’s recommendations and it is her blog where she wants people to be safe from attack. You say what else can you do to not trigger ppl with your riffs – simple: keep judgment out, as Rori has requested. That will also increase the value of the riff for yourself.

  191.  #191Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Why would someone want to stalk and/or gossip anyway? I don’t get that.

  192.  #192Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    That one part in 185 reminds me of in “Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen” when the girls saw the cast list. Girl A: You got x part. Girl B: (lying, upset) Good, cuz that’s the part I wanted. Girl A: (smiling, got the lead) Good, cuz that’s the part you got.

  193.  #193Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Now. I feel sad that my important feelings and thoughts about attraction that I was working through – and my revelation about attachment/shutting down – got hit with a sudden tsunami and whooshed into oblivion. Wtf? Really? Where’s the love? It’s like those times when the kids were little and we’d be learning something or playing a game, and suddenly a 2 yr old would have a full-out temper tantrum… and it would spoil the learning or fun of the other kids and the parents as well. Disappointing. πŸ™

  194.  #194Daria on May 9, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Im feeling really good!

    ok i feel bad a bit and anxious cuz i spot attacks here and there on me in Lucy’s posts, but im mostly feeling ok

    actually hmm i feel kinda distant and cold toward Lucy and numb

    what i want to write about is my own stuff and im gonna keep on not really reading stuff about me that seems like it’s gonna have judgements and attacks

    it would feel nice to be acknowledged that my riff is not about Lucy and i don’t see that happening from all people and that’s ok,

    i feel powerful enough right now to continue loving on me and doing my own stuff while people sling mud at me and judge me

    i kinda feel cool about it too πŸ™‚ like powerful

    I AM A ROCK!


    so i decided to embrace the elderly fat schoolady that came up in my riff with the “there, there, kids” voice

    she’s a part of me that i felt uncomfortable with, because i found her stifling and stuffy

    I did the Stranger exercise with her, and gave her a rose, and i felt so good to do so!

    she looked really pleased like this was not a common experience for her

    then i gave her a hug, and suddenly i felt embraced VERY powerfully by a very motherly, protective figure. she was so powerful and open and loving!

    it felt wonderful!

    it felt like she could take care of me and a whole household!

    she could bake and watch the kids and arrange stuff and laugh in her apron with a big spoon of batter in her hands!

    that felt great!!

    and she said she will help me be more whole

    her name was Elaina.

    I feel so glad to have her on my side πŸ™‚

  195.  #195Daria on May 9, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    I want to embrace the “doormat” lady as well, but i feel a bit sad to do so… she really reminds me of my mom and i feel triggered

    i feel guilty for the times i “blew up” at my mom πŸ™

  196.  #196Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Daria, I feel curious – where do you see attacks and judgments in my posts about you? As far as I can tell, you attacked and I took the hit.

  197.  #197Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    I just realized I would feel happy and excited if Daria would feel open to receiving some coaching from me someday. I would like to help her.

  198.  #198Daria on May 9, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    ok i read a lil bit more – not all – and i am not feeling so judged really

    i was feeling tightened up and stuff

    im feeling a bit better

  199.  #199Daria on May 9, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Lucy – im sorry you felt attacked

    in all fairness, i guessed that you would feel triggered by what came up for me and take it personally and that’s why i put warnings for you not to read unless you were prepared to not take stuff personally (i didn’t write the stuff after unless, maybe that would’ve helped)

    the fat lady with the there there and the doormat lady were images of MINE that came up as i was processing why i felt so angry reading the words “slightly peeved and exhasperated”

    it’s something to do with my own internal workings and i think with the relationship with my mom

    it really didn’t have anything to do with you

    im sorry for your pain

    yes i feel angry at you

    and i feel sad too

    i dont want to fight with you and i dont want you to feel bad

    and yet i dont want to not process my personal stuff either in order to avoid triggering you

    you might have read that for all i know and said… oh wow daria is really triggered by her stuff, what weird images she’s having!

    i don’t know when or how it will trigger you, but when i guess that it will, i put up the warning to try to protect you

    that was the purpose of it

    feeling a lil sad about this “split” with you πŸ™

    i don’t want to fight with you! I want to feel good and get along with you!

    I feel compassion for you and I care about you and I’m especially moved by what i see as such a challenging life situation you have with your daughter’s illness and stuff. I don’t want to cause you pain.

    I care about you, even though when i feel angry i go to shut down and coldness. i’m sorry about that

    i judge msyelf sometimes for how NUMB and cold i get at those times, and i want to love myself too, so i can thaw out and feel good and connected, and not attack

    and im feeling proud of myself for NOT attacking anyone lately, other than the men the other day, and all my babysteps

    love to you


  200.  #200Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    Daria, thank you. I forgive you. I reread your riff and I do see several places that are clearly judgments of me personally. I understand your process and believe it can be more effective for you and more compassionate to others if it is devoid of judging. The other thing is that I felt blindsided by your intense reaction to me having a different experience than you on the “shuttng down” issue – I tried to be as gentle as possible, but you get sooo upset when your advice isn’t rec’d the way you want it to b

  201.  #201Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    be. I don’t know why it upsets you so much but it would be awesome if that was healed. I would love to be able to receive advice that resonates and respectfully decline tht which doesn’t, without being afraid of you getting so triggered. What do you think?

  202.  #202Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    Lucy – i feel uncomfortable to read that you forgive me

    I don’t want to apologize here, I stand by what I wrote

    and at the same time, i feel sorry that you felt pain from my actions

    Scared this will push you away again, but i don’t want to let myself down by going along with the impression that i think i did something wrong… in order to keep the peace

    i feel good that you feel better now and i want to feel good with you too, and i want the feel goodness to continue on all sides

    i feel sorry my riff caused you pain

    i felt condescended to hearing “exhasperated” and looked at that and got the images that i got and made some connections with some real life stuff for me

    hmm… maybe you meant, i forgive you for causing me pain,

    and not what i “read” which is,

    i forgive you for doing something “wrong” and apologizing for it now

    i feel afraid

  203.  #203Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    I plan on resolving the issue about not feeling received by STOP and NOTICE before offering advice. And then NOT offering it where my intuition says it’s not going to feel good to me and it’s not going to be received. I was ignoring my intuition…

    kind of how it would be ignoring intuition to try to talk to a man in the middle of a heated basketball game, when it doesn’t seem like he will be paying attention

  204.  #204Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    i can always say, oh i feel surprised to hear about so and so’s issue, i remember having a similar issue and then having such and such aha moments,

    if it’s something that moves Me to talk about for myself

    instead of “giving” with expectation of it being received by the other person



    i feel sad hearing so and so Siren is having that problem

    i remember having a problem that i think was similar to that, here’s what happened for me

    i wonder what’s going to happen for so and so Siren?

  205.  #205RiverGirl on May 9, 2011 at 11:11 pm


    I feel sad and a bit helpless when I notice your riffing triggering hurt feelings in other sirens who understandably then also speak out about what they are then feeling. I admire your ability to fully voice what it is you are feeling in the moment and to dig down to find what is causing those feelings to come up and I don’t like to see you feeling hurt for expressing your feelings.
    I know that you are sorry when others feel hurt by your private work to deal with your own issues and I wonder whether your riffing could be just as effective for you if you wrote it in the moment, but didn’t post straight away. In other words, pause before speaking your words publicly. That would give you time to sit with your feelings and choose your words. Perhaps you could then post your riff (it is often very helpful to others to read about your process) but leave out names of the sirens who triggered you.
    I don’t know if any of what I have written is helpful to you but I hope so. xo

  206.  #206Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    i reread my own riff and there was a judgement i found

    “you fake down your anger”

    that could be “i feel unsafe and mistrustful about whats really going on with you, how angry you feel – when i read “slightly peeved and exhasperated” – i feel disconnected reading that and i feel confused – and afraid and angry”

    now i feel stuck

    i want to apologize for that judgement, but then when i think about apologizing what comes up for me is

    yeah but i said… this is what comes up for me and may not be your reality. i SAID that. and i put warnings.

    someone should apologize to Me about reading my personal riff that was warned to not read if you don’t want to read triggering stuff…

    and then getting triggered about it

    and then judging me about it

    wah wah! not fair!

    not fair too that people say judgements about ME and they don’t apologize

    i don’t want to run around trying to please someone and bending over backwards to apologize, after ALL THE FUCHKIN UNACKNOWLEGED care i took









    EFFORT that I could use for my riffing

    to keep saying hey look, this is not about you, this is what comes up for me

    thats not something i write for my benefit, im writing it to protect people that i am guessing may be triggered

    and do they care?

    i dont feel acknowledged for it

    i feel mad about that


    ok the truth is im writing it to protect MYSELF too from judgements of others

    because they may be triggered and then start judging me as a “bad girl”

    or what not


    ok what if someone wrote:


    I get the impression Daria is a lying piece of crap

    that’s what comes up for me

    it reminds me of my mom


    how would i feel?

    i would feel scared, taken aback

    i would feel bad



    ok i feel better about apologizing now

    I apologize for using that judgement in my riff, instead of really going straight for the feelings.

    I’m sorry about judging, that doesn’t help create connection or safety, and that’s important

    going for the feelings will help more.

    Yeah i feel kinda bad about myself now, that I used judgements.

    Thank you for bearing with me here.

    ok i feel ashamed


    I’m sorry for using judgements instead of feeling messages.

    That must have felt crappy to read.


    Sorry everyone.

    Sorry Lucy.

    I still feel kind of weirdly disconnected from you.

    that feels bad


  207.  #207Lucy on May 9, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    in 199 I read “I’m sorry about that” … and it felt good to hear, and good to say I forgive you.

  208.  #208Daria on May 9, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Ella – i feel glad you’re finding healing from your post!

    I did make a comment to your situation on the last thread,

    and honestly i feel a bit stumped as to what to say or what I would do…

    I DO feel great that you stated boundaries about what you don’t want to hear about, and that you felt good with his response!

    here’s the not so feel good part:

    I feel concerned that dating this man will destroy your relationship with your friend. Do you think that’s true?

    You said she was one of your best friends, is it worth it to you to hide this from her and possibly/probably harm the friendship by dating a man she was dating for a long time and may still have feelings for?

    Perhaps it is, maybe she really would OK it now that she’s moved on and has another man,

    or maybe she would feel bad, and still… experimenting with this man is more important than honoring her feelings in that friendship – I have some friends i’m not close to, I don’t respect them and wouldn’t Not date a man, especially a man I like, because of their feelings for him –

    and in that case, cool! Although, i wouldn’t feel good and safe to date a man that was dating other women and i could see that going on… but it seems that he may change that…

  209.  #209Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Thank you Lucy.

    Sorry also for the judgements in my post. I DO apologize for that.

    I was off the mark with the judgements, where going into the feelings would have felt better for everyone and ultimately for me… in fact it may have felt better for me in the first place, since i would have gotten to the important stuff quickly

    i feel really glad i was able to reword that as I did when i looked at it again. i didn’t really know how to phrase that, what i was really feeling in that moment… and i learned from that… i was feeling a disconnect… im sure this will help me a lot in real life

  210.  #210Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:06 am

    203. I like that plan. That is what I do. Sometimes I even type something out – often in these cases I am struggling for the right words – and then realize it is my deeper awareness telling me “no, better not to share this right no.” So I don’t. Other times my intuition tells me that my motives are impure – to purposely “dig” someone, or to show off in an unhealthy way, etc. so I don’t post until I am ready to post with love for myself and others.

  211.  #211Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:12 am

    206 Obviously it is not my reality, but that doesn’t make it not a judgment. A judgment is a judgment no matter where it is hiding.

  212.  #212Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Aw, Daria, I feel good reading the rest of what you wrote. I feel like now you understand how I felt. I feel heard and seen. Thank you.

  213.  #213Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:30 am

    Aww Lucy that feels so good!! HUGS!!!

  214.  #214Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:32 am

    I’m feeling amused imagining Lurker and others unfamiliar with blog-conflict-resolution scratching their heads like “huh? what just happened?”


  215.  #215Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:36 am

    (((Daria))) I’m glad you feel better. I feel better too. Thank you for sticking with it til resolution. (We found a cheat code for “no closure” hehe.) Love you. <3

  216.  #216Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Rivergirl – thank you for sharing how you felt

    what i’m going to do is babystep to more feeling messages and non-judgements…

    also, i can as a “pause” write my original if i don’t want to pause in it, and then rewrite it in feeling messages all the way through

  217.  #217Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:38 am

    Lucy – this is not closure, its OPENING! theres more (lovely) stuff to this story in the future…

    tralalala πŸ™‚

    Love you too!

  218.  #218Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:38 am

    Yes, I think we can feel proud of ourselves. I just hope ppl don’t get triggered reading it tomorrow!

  219.  #219Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:40 am

    okay feeling scared of upsetting you by negating your closure statement…

    i don’t “use” closure, even in my personal workings…

    or do i?

    i once really wanted to see the first man i fell in love with, after our breakup i missed him terribly…

    then i saw him like 6 months later and we had amazing orgasmic sex that felt sooo awesome!

    and after that i didn’t feel attached to him anymore

    that felt REALLY surpring and weird yet good

  220.  #220Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:44 am

    not me! i would feel amused if they get triggered…

    maybe i feel mad and revengeful at ‘them’ for judging me

    in your face judgers!!

    i feel vindicated and validated and safe

    i am now judging myself for seeing it as a me vs. them thing


    i feel tired a lil bit

    i DO have love for everyone

    and i have LOTS of love for myself

  221.  #221Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:46 am

    i feel good about everyone feeling good.

    i feel mad at certain people. i feel like, scared and closed off to them.

    i feel sleepy

  222.  #222Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:49 am

    I just saw you as playing with the different connotations of the word closure – so in one sense it is Not close – ure but open – ing. I get that. But in another sense (the one I meant) closure is the same thing as resolution … closure of the “conflict.” Unless you were wanting to do Hop on Pop – “Fight fight they fight all night…” πŸ˜€

  223.  #223Daria on May 10, 2011 at 12:56 am


    i feel like a bit of heart tightening thinking of ‘closure’

    i like not believing in closure it feels good to me… like freeeee

    for me this was just a flow that keeps flowing, and part of the flow was us feeling triggered and upset… and now we will feel good… and it will all flow on

    i don’t even see death as closure…

    like a big spiral

  224.  #224Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 12:58 am

    Well I gotta get some sleep. I appreciate you Daria – this turned out good. πŸ™‚ I feel kinda excited. Sweet dreams. <3

  225.  #225The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 1:04 am

    #214 “I’m feeling amused imagining Lurker and others unfamiliar with blog-conflict-resolution scratching their heads like β€œhuh? what just happened?””

    Well, hehe, no, I don’t Daria . My hair is becoming a bit thin lately, so, no scratching. Need to preserve some hair for girls like Lucy. But, hey, thx for thinking of me!
    I see how the back and forth led to more understanding. At one point, I felt like weighing in, offering some advice, but now I’m glad I didn’t. Would probably have backfired (would have been too logically/analytically, bringing an unhelpful tone into the discussion), and I see you Sirens don’t need any help with that at all. The female style of discussing problems is quite different to the male approach, imho, but it works as well or even better. Impressive. Wow, everybody!

  226.  #226Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:12 am

    Yay Lurker πŸ™‚

    that feels really awesome to read! I feel super happy! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  227.  #227Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 1:13 am

    okay well the basic meaning of closure is end n I am hoping this is the end of this current uncomfortable segment of process which is part of a larger never-ending process that yes keeps flowing but doesn’t always stay stuck on yucky parts so there is a sense in which the yucky part ends at least for a time unless you just want to keep disagreeing about closure all night and I will wake up in the morning to see that you were right n there will never be even a momentary endto conflict forever and ever amen<3

  228.  #228Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:18 am

    ThankS Lucy ! Goodnite! πŸ™‚

  229.  #229Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:18 am

    I feel excited too… Like Giddy.

  230.  #230Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 1:18 am

    Thanks Lurker. πŸ™‚ How bout photo-shopping your hair onto that frog so I can see what ya got. hehe.

  231.  #231gina on May 10, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Hooray Daria and Lucy!!!!

  232.  #232Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:24 am

    Lol yes I disagree on ending it however I don’t want to recreate conflict and feel totally cool about you using the concept of closure if it feels good to you and you want to use it

    I feel like No desire to convince you otherwise

    I actually notice that I feel ‘different’ with you now, like not so attached in a controlly way

    I don’t want to convince you of the benefits of no closure as a concept

    Would you like to hear about them? Lol πŸ™‚

    To me it’s like removing an unnecessary filter on a pipe that sometimes gets clogged

    Seriously though, I dont feel the compulsion for you to use this .

    I feel like am energy shift has happened

    I feel a bit scared of it changing back it feels really good and relaxed this way

  233.  #233Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 1:25 am

    Goodnight princess and frog. Don’t get too much hanky panky going on with just the two of you all alone on the island!!! xo

  234.  #234RiverGirl on May 10, 2011 at 1:27 am

    Daria and Lucy, I love how you both stayed with it till you both felt better. πŸ™‚ I am making mental notes on how to do that it my own life.

  235.  #235The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 1:29 am

    #226 “that feels really awesome to read!”
    Thank you, Daria! To be honest, it was a bit difficult to write that. Not easy for a guy ( a Mr. Fix-It ) to see you get stuff done in your specific female way and to admit that you girls don’t necessarily need us. Makes me feel a bit useless.

    #230 A frog with gray hair? Well…I dunno…I’ll better colorize it. Will go to the drugstore later and ask for BRC-brown!

  236.  #236Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 1:35 am

    yeah I took the filter outta the bathtub drain bc i’d rather the hair just wash down the drain instead of having to pick it out of the filter ewww. So no closure in my bathtub. But I’m pretty sure my eyes are gonna closure so i can sleep, and there will be closure to d’s college years when she graduates satirday but there will be No Closure on Blog Conflict by Decree of Daria and alright Lucy will add her John Hancock so as to make the peace, so from now on it must be All Conflict All the Time. zzzzzzzzzzzz

  237.  #237Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:38 am

    Rivergirl – sometimes the ‘closure’ doesn’t happen … But going to feelings and authenticity makes shifts and eventually stuff starts feeling better, healing happens even if it’s not immediately visible like this one

    That’s what I noticed from past blog conflicts and usually real life reflects blog work (another thing I noticed which is what Rori says will happen too)

  238.  #238The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 1:38 am

    #236 Sleeptexting, Luce?
    Have sweet dreams in peaceful Sirenland!

  239.  #239Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:39 am

    Lol dammit how can I conflict with that! However your eyes will open tomorrow leaving no closure yet again!

  240.  #240Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 1:40 am

    Lurker – gotta love that BRC brown! And don’t worry – we women need you guys for other, more fun, stuff. πŸ˜‰ Goodnight everyone I am keeling over…zzzzz

  241.  #241Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:41 am

    Aww Lurker ((hugs))

    I feel good that you did that for us. I felt really approved of and seen. πŸ™‚

  242.  #242Daria on May 10, 2011 at 1:42 am

    Hooray Gina! I feel so awesome! Like I just had sex! Or finished a marathon! Or shifted some mega energy blocks!

  243.  #243RiverGirl on May 10, 2011 at 1:45 am

    Sirens/sailors, I would love some input on a subject that is bound to bring up lots of triggering and judgement.

    I’m part of a panel on a radio forum in the morning and one of the topics is child beauty pageants. It has not been prominent in Australia but there are moves by tv interests to really get it going here.

    I have never been involved in that sort of thing either as a participant or a bystander, and my immediate reaction is one of horror. To me it seems to encourage little girls to act like grown sexual women well before the should and to try to fit an artificial image of femininity. I worry that there will be harmful psychological effects on these children that could lead to unhealthy relationships for them as adults.

    I would love to hear some thoughts about the whole pagent phenomenon and whether people see some positives for the girls.

  244.  #244Daria on May 10, 2011 at 2:03 am

    Rivergirl – I’ve never been involved or know anything about it other than from media. I’ve heard plenty of negatives discussed there, so theoretically (since I don’t know what it would really feel like) here’s

    Some positives:

    . It’s like acting, and acting feels really fun!

    Lil girls may enjoy being center of attention

    Mother daughter bonding

    Overall womanly bonding

    Lil girls might love to dress up anyway

    Flirtiness and femininity is not shameful or bad

  245.  #245Ella on May 10, 2011 at 2:04 am

    I feel good today.


  246.  #246Ella on May 10, 2011 at 2:12 am


    Thanks for your reply.

    I feel heard.

    Yes it could potentialy harm my friendship with her. Although she left him, and she is adamant that she no longer has feelings for him, and she is with someone else.

    Despite all this I sometimes think the dynamics of a friendship can be very delicate and because she is one of my best friends I don’t want to risk damaging it.

    On the other hand I have an idea that this guy is quite important to me too, but I don’t know in what way yet.

    I think I wouldn’t mention anything to her unless he and I were going to do more than dating, ie if he one day offered me some kind of commitment.

    Ow, it feels scare writing that. I feel super scared of even thinking that for an instant cus then I imagine how it would feel if nothing happens and I watch him get together with someone else. Ick!

    Anyway, reigning in those crazy whirlwind thoughts of mine, and firmly back in the present, I think I will accept an out of town date with him and just see how it goes.

    Surely feels no need to mention to her for one date…

    And maybe then my feelings and boundaries will tell me more.

    Also time will help a lot here I think,

  247.  #247Daria on May 10, 2011 at 2:17 am

    Dude! I did some matrix reimprinting EFT today and it really worked. It was about my sister and I really feel a shift a solid shift, like it’s not going back to the awful way it felt to think about her.

    Matrix reimprinting (well my version of it after reading a describing paragraph) is when you go back to a traumatic memory and then go in there and actually tapping on the echo you, the you in there in your imagination, while actually tapping on yourself here. You give them new tools to use in the situation and thank them for storing the memory to protect you. Then once cleared you take them to a beach or a meadow or somewhere Safe and good feeling and build that in there.

    It shifts your filters when you think of the memory it will now be discharged and even feel good as the beach miry will come up as well.

    I feel so proud of Muself for doing this for one if my memories!

    I also did some slower rhythm tapping and belief changing the way Erika does it, I looked at her videos and tapped at her speed, makes less anxiety come up for me.

  248.  #248Ella on May 10, 2011 at 2:22 am

    Guy from the pub just texted (not the usual guy another one). He was supposed to take me for a date last night and did not make contact. I leant back and didn’t make contact either.

    This morning he sends text and doesn’t mention missed date.

    I tell him I feel confused as thought we were supposed to meet up yesterday. I always feel like a school mistress when I have to deal with this kinda stuff and worried beine labelled a neurotic woman.

    Interesting what other people’s behaviour brings up for me.

    Anyway he apologised and said he forgot what we had arranged.

    Not sure… is possible, we were rather tipsy.

    I said no worries and I felt a lil disappointed cus I am looking forward to seeing him.

    He said sorry again and he would sort something for another time.

    I said ok.

    He didn’t suggest a time though.

    I feel a little weird. Like I am trying to get an outcome from this.

    Hmmm, I kinda am but not sure how not to be thinking that if you know what I mean.

    Plus I needed to stick to my boundaries, ie: I am not going to quietly take the crumbs when a guy stands me up. So I am going to bring it up, in as non blamey way as possible.

    That feels good.

    Ok, what can I now do to let go of ‘seeking outcome’ feeling/vibe.

    Ok I know:

    Well I feel pleased to hear from him. To recieve his arrow of a text. That feels nice.

    And I feel pleased to state my boundaries.

    Having a date with him or someone else would feel good, I’d like that, and yet I am feeling great and happy just dating myself too!

    Woohoo, I am a happy Siren.

    Big Love.


  249.  #249Daria on May 10, 2011 at 2:36 am

    Ella – how would you feel if she were dating mr barman, or another of your exes? Wondering…

    Feeling confused. I remember Rori said to me that for her it would not be ok for her a friend to start dating or get physical with a man I liked. That she would talk to friend would she stop, and if not end the friendship.

    For me, I would feel really betrayed if a close friend of mine was dating my ex.

    Or at least weirdly icky.

    It seems you’re strongly attracted to this guy and that means … Nothing!

    Meanwhile, this is one of your close friends… You are about to harm that relationship by compromising intimacy and keeping secrets.

    This is a big red flag for me.

  250.  #250Ella on May 10, 2011 at 2:57 am

    Hmmm Daria,

    Feeling confused too.

    She just wrote a FB post saying why is it than when you least expect it your best friends stab you in the back.

    I don’t think it was directed at me but it sure triggered my guilt feelings.

    Oh Icky icky, I don’t know what to do.

    Should I just not date him?

    Should I talk to her about how I am feeling? That would be the hardest thing ever.

    I guess it all comes back to the scarcity belief that there are not enough good, step up guys out there for me.

    I don’t want to hurt my friendship.


  251.  #251Ella on May 10, 2011 at 2:59 am

    Shall I say to him ‘I can’t go on a date with you, I feel too weird and guilty when I think of Mrs ex’?

  252.  #252Ella on May 10, 2011 at 3:03 am

    I just told him that (the above) and also that I feel sad.

  253.  #253Ella on May 10, 2011 at 3:22 am

    He suggested that I might feel better if I talk to her about how I am feeling.

    Sirens, any thoughts?

    Should I tell her everything?

    I feel horrid!

    πŸ™ xoxoxo

  254.  #254Ella on May 10, 2011 at 3:32 am

    Ah Dog panicking… and spamming the blog. And really should be working!

    Need soothing tools.


    And breath. And get dressed. And go to mum’s to work.

    And trust that the answer will come if I stay in a place of love.

  255.  #255Ella on May 10, 2011 at 3:47 am

    K, so what if I just tell her everything and then tell her that I value our friendship and will not date him if it will cause an iota of weirdness or ickiness?

    Might be an option…

    Maybe I should just decide not to date him anyway regardless of what she says.

    Or maybe I should take it back to the tools and express and speak the truth, tell her how I feel, including feeling like a big wh8re… and then go from there.

    No expectation of outcome.

    Ow, I feel heavy inside right now.

  256.  #256Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:43 am

    Ella 248 – guy forgetting your date …. alcohol. maybe new rule.. no accepting plans when one or both of you is drunk. he’ll have to take your number and call u the next day when he’s sober and ‘daytime’ him like a gentleman πŸ˜›
    what do u think?

  257.  #257Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:55 am

    Ella, i think you should talk to your girl. and you should tell him you’ve been feeling all churned up inside because of what’s been happening and that u feel so wrong not telling her what’s happening to u right now with your feelings.

    you don’t have to tell her outright that you won’t talk to him. that’s good to have up your sleeve but it would probably be a good idea to let yourself be vulnerable in her presence and see what happens with that, before you bust out the defenses.

    as an aside, in high school and middle school, my girl friends sometimes would have a little boyfriend, but they weren’t terribly into him. something that happened a lot with them is that we would all hang out together and me and their guy would click really well. and my friends weren’t terribly into them so they would stop “dating”(we were teenagers so dating is a loose term). but then these guys would basically say, that’s okay, i have a big crush on your friend dorothea who is cool and different and special.

    And these guys would pursue me like crazy.

    some of my friends were cool with it at first, since they dumped the guy. but eventually they would disclose that they’re not okay with it after all. and i would stop seeing the guys in the name of my friendships. i’d break the guys heart and lose something nice for myself. but my friendships were THAT important.

    where i am going with this is that i am not friends with ANY of those girls now. in fact, a lot of those girls turned out not to be worth dumping a great guy.

    anyway, i think you should talk to your friend. and then you owe it to her and him BOTH to take it slow with this guy.

  258.  #258Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 5:59 am

    I am curious. I was just listening to the latest Interview on EFT tapping and although Rori and Susan were talking about anger. I felt sad, profound sadness. So now I am wondering what others felt while listening to the session. I was so sad I started to cry. It felt like I was starved of love my entire life, my childhood and it got me started wondering how I can give love to my children when I am not filled up with it. I got to thinking how for the most part of my life I lost out on loving myself. I forgive myself because I know I was doing the best I knew how. But now I am wondering how can I truly fill myself up to the point of giving to my children that I could maybe undo some of the damage I have already done.


  259.  #259Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 6:12 am

    Ohhh Fem I want to give you a big hug and take you to the nail spa with me.

  260.  #260Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 6:14 am

    Hi! I find that I don’t want to stay away,
    but I’m going to be careful with my time
    New job will take some getting used to juggling stuff, but it’ll be fun:-)

    this is for RIVERGIRL about the beauty pageants

    you absolutely have to watch

    “Little Miss Sunshine”

  261.  #261SummerBaby on May 10, 2011 at 6:16 am

    Oh (((Femininewoman))) hugs!

    You ARE love. it’s at our very essence. Just relax into it. I know exactly what you mean. I think the acceptance and validation we missed out on as children left us compensating in other ways. But all we really need to do is accept ourselves.

    I’m working on it too.

    Big hugs, FW


  262.  #262Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:18 am

    Thanks Dorothea. It feels like it opened up a floodgate of emotions. Can’t get away from the tearyeyed since listening. I am seeing how it caused me to be eating to feel good and sabotaging myself. I see how it has had me procrastinating because I fear not being able to succeed.

  263.  #263Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:20 am

    I tap against my wrist and I feel it in the pit of my stomach. I am so afraid of feeling myself right now my head feels like it is going to bust right open.

  264.  #264Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Maybe if I could find anger or rage it could close this gate for me and take me back to my comfort zone.

  265.  #265Lily T. on May 10, 2011 at 6:22 am


    I understand your feelings surrounding dating your best friend’s ex are confusing – But I wonder whether sharing a home with someone where there is a mutual attraction is a potential bigger problem. If you choose to date him, or choose not to date him the attraction would still be there. If you don’t date him, the potential for jealousy and angst is there when he goes about dating others – in your face, so to speak. And if you do date him, because you live together, you are likely putting the relationship at a different level than “just dating”.

    How difficult would it be for you to find a different living situation? Have you considered that as an option? That it might be better to sort through what you and this man want to do if you lived apart?

    What do you think?

  266.  #266Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:27 am

    Summerbaby thank you for your kindness and the reminder.

  267.  #267Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 6:28 am

    204 Daria

    OK, I really like what happened here between Daria and Lucy and even feel a wall go down with the resistance to using Rori’s tools brouhaha because of what Daria shares here (below).

    love to all

    “…..instead of β€œgiving” with expectation of it being received by the other person



    i feel sad hearing so and so Siren is having that problem

    i remember having a problem that i think was similar to that, here’s what happened for me

    i wonder what’s going to happen for so and so Siren?”

  268.  #268Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 6:37 am

    235: The Lurker says:

    #226 β€œthat feels really awesome to read!”
    Thank you, Daria! To be honest, it was a bit difficult to write that. Not easy for a guy ( a Mr. Fix-It ) to see you get stuff done in your specific female way and to admit that you girls don’t necessarily need us. Makes me feel a bit useless.

    Lurks, it feel good to hear you say that, because I have had the feeling lately that you were trying to compete with some of us women on here. I admit, I don’t want to have to dumb myself down or not get involved in an intelligent discussion or back and forth with a man (which I enjoy) so as not to come off as competing with him. But it’s something for me to work on, so as not to place myself in the “friend” position or stay too much in a masculine or equal energy right away.


  269.  #269gina on May 10, 2011 at 7:26 am

    It dawned on me last night that he started seeing some other girl soon after we broke up. And he probably is seeing someone now. And he blames me for it, but now that he’s in Boston, he looked back at how things went down, and he felt ashamed and sorry and he saw that he forced me in a corner and he hoped that maybe we could start fresh. And yet he remembers the times I went cold towards him and still feels like I must not have liked him enough and he feels resentment towards me for not loving him as much as he loved me. He felt guilty for betraying me, and that’s why he acted all weird…And it sorta started while we were still together – when I told him I wasn’t feeling the sex with him. I prolly coulda said it better, but he wasn’ inclined to really hear me and “work” on what was bothering me. Instead I fueled his insecurity and he got his needs met elsewhere and felt like crap about himself and mad at me. And that explains why I wasn’t invited to his Birthday or his going away party and why I heard from him much more when he was out of town. and the whole time he felt sorry for himself. Disgusting…and weird, because my mom predicted that he’s the type of guy that would do this. Cause he DID it. And I don’t even feel very angry. Sorta sad. and disgusted. and weirded out and icked out. but gratified. like I finally sorta get it.

  270.  #270flygirl on May 10, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Hi Rori,

    I have been reading you off and on for several years. You are beyond inspiring and helpful. I am very grateful for your advice.

    I have come a long way; from a huge over functioner with imaginary relationships to being in a committed relationship with a wonderful man.

    I never realized the amount of work required to keep the relationship strong. It is not something that you can leave alone and let go. Instead it takes thoughtful time and energy to grow.

    I am thrilled to have grown this far!!!! (thx to you!!!)

    Anyway, my boyfriend is divorced and has a young daughter. I have several questions about this dynamic, but last night one issue regarding his ex wife arose.

    He wanted to send me an email of him when he was chubby because “he thought it was funny.”

    I opened the picture on the phone with him and made light of it.

    It immediately bothered me when I saw the photo. He had shown it to me before and it bothered me then also.

    It was taken when he was married (he has his wedding ring on) and looks to be on his honeymoon (or other vacation) with his ex wife. Although she is not pictured, it makes my stomach turn.

    I thought about it last night and I was initially angry. I sunk into my feelings further and discovered that anger masked hurt and sadness. I am also confused why he would send this to me… Dosen’t he remember when I saw the piture last time and how I told him it was making me uncomfortable to see old pictures of times when he was married…..:(

    I have decided to speak to him about the matter. I am not going to blow up like I normally would do, because I know that will only hurt me.

    I am going to tell him (a rori raye speech):

    ***I thought about the photo you sent me last night and it makes me feel bad. Was that taken on your honeymoon with your ex wife?

    I feel sad and hurt by the email.

    I feel forced into your past and I am not interested in going there.***

    What do you think? Any recommendations?


    On another note I have been struggling with this other issue for a while.

    I feel so nervous around men I really like /love that I have trouble eating because I feel sick around food.

    I think it is a nervous thing and has something to do with control, but how can I make it better?

    My instincts tell me that the problem lies in that I feel like I have to be perfect and confident and in control or else I will lose my guy, my love.

    I must have fear about looking weak or needing help. I am sooooooo tired of this and I want to grow past it.

    Any insights on this? Any help would be great!

    Thanks soooo much!!!


  271.  #271Brenda on May 10, 2011 at 7:48 am


    What an insightful, fantastic article! Thank you! You really “get” life!

  272.  #272Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Hi Flygirl:

    I can offer some tweaks on your feeling message. To me, it sounds a bit blaming the way you wrote it.

    “***I thought about the photo you sent me last night and it makes me feel bad. Was that taken on your honeymoon with your ex wife?*****

    I’d start out with something positive.

    “I love that you are sharing pictures from your past with me yet I feel sad when I see pictures of you when you were married. I feel insecure and jealous. I feel weird saying that because I know it was in the past, yet I still feel that way.”

    *****I feel sad and hurt by the email.*****

    Rori advises never to tell a man he “hurt” you. She says this word almost always triggers defensiveness. It has a connotation of blame to it.

    *****I feel forced into your past and I am not interested in going there.***

    This sounds blaming to me too. I seriously doubt hhe is trying to force you to do anything. It sounds like he genuinely wanted to share with you.

    I hope that helps! This is a subject that I’ve spent a lot of time working on. πŸ™‚

    I feel confused as to why seeing pictures from his past upsets you so. Do you feel insecure? Are you worried he is still interested in his wife?

  273.  #273Brenda on May 10, 2011 at 7:55 am


    RE: #45 – You said, “i feel excited! i think there’s mullein growing out in the yard where i’ve been dumping my tea seeds!”

    Cool! I am so glad you told me about mullein! It helped tremendously in my final stages of kicking the bronchitis out of my system!

    Then my Mom got a cold about two weeks ago, which can be life threatening, since she has severe lung problems and is on oxygen (she was exposed to secondary smoke the first 18 years of her life). I felt so good about giving her mullein and slippery elm bark to take, in addition to an expectorant. She is doing fine.

  274.  #274Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 8:00 am

    #250, RE: 249 – Ella, I feel like keeping my mouth shut on this one and seeing how you will handle this. I think you are strong and courageous and your Siren vibe right now is amazing. So I feel and believe that you will make the right choice.

    On my part, I’d say a couple things. First, I understand the anxiety that you are feeling with the situation and around making a decision.

    I’ve noticed myself in this and knee jerk reactions are not good. So I try and stay calm and NOT DO ANYTHING.

    Again, I’m also noticing for you (as well as what I’ve been through) – re. seeing things in a really ‘black and white’ situation. This feels really bad and ups the anxiety and needing/ wanting to do something.

    When I’m in this situation, I see the gray areas and that gives me more peace and freedom to organically process stuff.

    Some of the gray areas may be that they broke up – she left? Now you are living with him – by default…

    Sometimes, I wonder why life seems so ‘unfair’ – like if this was not good for us, what is the point of it showing up…. Like we don’t have enough trouble already – now here’s one more thing to go off balance about πŸ™

    It’s really annoying… ugh! All those annoying bits of life… but there IS something to process – something to learn.

    I’d say be gentle with yourself first. I notice not a lot of gentleness. A lot of freaking out and trying to ‘figure’ out what to do… what’s right/ what’s wrong – black and white and very little gentleness…

    I’d love myself MORE and be gentle with myself in a situation like this.

    Now, for the more difficult parts –

    I’ve had this exact situation before, in fact a couple times…

    I’ve smoked and then ended up intimate with a guy and then made something of it.

    At the time, it seemed really authentic and I kept going..

    In retrospect, it was imaginary…

    I’m not saying that your situation is imaginary/ inauthentic….

    In fact, I’ve smoked and felt ‘sober’ enough and been intimate – then made something of it…

    The strangest thing is that it was almost inevitable to end up intimate with this man the night of the smoke –

    Smoking is wonderful … and it’s interesting to notice how much we sometimes underestimate how much it does shift the context….

    What do you think?

    Now, re. as Daria says in 249. Personally, if I’m totally over a man I don’t have a problem with my friends dating the guy.

    I can think of the guy I wanted to marry in Jan. And if my friend dated him, I’d be like ugh! Go for it! I’d feel compassion for my friend knowing that the guy was not good for me and what his flaws were.

    But I guess that is just me. All the guys who it has ended with have been really bad for me anyway, so I’m like if my friend wants the misery … or if it works for her/them (coz I still value the man as a human being) then that’s fine with me.

    But that’s just me so far.

    I have dated my friend’s exes a few times – Bad idea, no matter the context.

    One friend of mine (my best friend) was secure enough and our friendship survived. But it was still a bad idea – I can see how much she was loving me through all of it… and why did I even do that? To her? To me?

    One thing is that we could not talk about the relationship. We only did when it was over and she helped me to process my feelings around it and we laughed about all of it πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    But she has a heart of gold and I love her dearly for it.

    The guys themselves sucked. But more than that, in fact, one of my biggest regrets is losing another friend I had because I dated her ex.

    Even though she was dating all HIS friends, she did not want me to date her ex. I found that inauthentic… I guess I judged her…

    Now, I’ve made a boundary for myself that I’d value my friends more than I value their exes.

    Your situation IS very sticky…

    I would talk to my friend to gauge her thoughts/ feelings – but not come out directly with it.

    Speaking to her this way may be good for your process – is where I’m coming from with this. Not to control or get the outcome you want.

    What do you think?

    I wouldn’t tell her that you made out with him. I’d just express that I was having weird feelings and didn’t know why and what she thought of him … and whether it is anything you need to consider… and how would she feel about it herself.

    What do you think?

    If she absolutely hates the idea. I would forget about the man and consider moving out.

    Or, I’d go for it, and surely be the one to lose – sorry, but I really feel that this is inevitable in this option.

    The gray area, would be just to process my feelings around all what is happening and be open to the right man coming along – another man.

    Or, if she moves to a different country/ town for good – then I guess he’s free and she’ll never know/ care πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ lol!

    Sending you lots of love Ella and you will find a way!



  275.  #275DE on May 10, 2011 at 8:01 am


    Wow…how softer and warmer your posts seem…although tearful, I also felt joy for your own self discovery…I know it is painful…I did/and even now do the same thing….i feel afraid “to go there”…because i sense the emotions building up in me…

    i cried a lot too when i began the process…but my son felt me…and he would want to hug me, give me a massage…till I ask him, what’s going on…he said…”i don’t know”, “i feel like u need it”…

    I realized I don’t do well being perceived as “weak”, “or I need help”…:( and yet, all that is my own perception…now, i work on shifting these thoughts into “vulnerable”, “open”…etc…

    Warm hugs,

  276.  #276Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 8:03 am

    Flygirl: Something similar happened with my LI when I first met him.

    Before I met him, he traveled to all sorts of exotic places with his ex-girlfriend. Well, when we met, he showed me all those pictures and she was in a lot of them. I felt confused and insecure. For one thing, she was gorgeous! And I felt confused because I didn’t know if he was still into her.

    We joke about it now. He realizes that it was a bit insensitive of him but he says he was so excited to share his passion with me that he didn’t realize it would bother me.

    He knew it was over with her and he was interested in me. He didn’t even realize I would feel bad about it.

    What I am trying to say, is although I understand that you feel uncomfortable, I wouldn’t make a huge deal about this one thing.

    Ya know, you have to choose your battles.

    How do you feel about what I am saying?

  277.  #277flygirl on May 10, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Thanks Laughing Goddess!!!!!!!

    I am very (overly) sensitive when it comes to love and men and I greatly appreciate a different perspective.

    I honesltly don’t think I am jealous of the ex wife. However the more stories I hear about them in the past make me feel weird…like my stomach gets nervous…

    She apparently had several affairs and in my mind if he goes back to her then he wants that kind of a woman and I am the complete opposite and cannot give him that, so I feel I would accept it.

    I do not want to know about his past relationships. I do not want to see pictures or hear stories. Last night he was talking about his daughter’s birth and how he had a picture of how her legs were stuck up and I became very annoyed and disinterested.

    I love him with all my heart, but I do not want to know or talk about past realtionships with him or any man I am dating for that matter.

    Am I wrong?



  278.  #278tinque on May 10, 2011 at 8:10 am

    I want to say I am feeling such joy and am in awe of the beautiful processing which went on last night. Brava!!!


  279.  #279tinque on May 10, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Femininewoman – But that’s exactly what you’re doing. The more you work to heal, the more you release your old stuff, the blocks, the walls, the places you hold and hold on due to fear, the more space there is for flow, and that flow is love.

    Feel this flow. Feel your love. If YOU feel it, so will your children.


  280.  #280flygirl on May 10, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Thanks again Laughing Goddess!

    I know I am overly sensitive when it comes to love.

    I understand you have to pick your battles.

    It legimately bothers me, but I am considering trying to let it go…


    I don’t know what to do….

    Thanks so much though:)


  281.  #281Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 8:19 am

    I feel better. I feel okay. I feel something shift.

    I didn’t get online and immediately check if he was on and what time he was last on. I just went about my biz and then saw him log off – … so he was on!!! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    I felt so good… babysteps.

    Then I’m done beating myself up for the leaning forward….

    There is so much more to life and love than freaking out about this tiny bit – and who knows what he is thinking.

    I choose to believe that he is in his process and will contact me –

    I feel scared that he may not – I want to heal this, thank you!

    I can only continue to take care of myself do my beautification –

    It would feel good to be all soft and yummy when he shows up.

    – “Its the relationship not the man”.

    I am okay just the way I am.

    I am the yummy pie! – Sometimes I forget πŸ™‚

    I love my yummy pie-ness πŸ™‚

    I feel open to all things bright and beautiful – love and life –

    I’m here loving myself MORE!

    Thank you to all Sirens and Sailors!

    Thank you life for bringing me this to work with!

    Thank you love for loving me!

    Thank you wisdom for giving yourself to me!

    Thank you to me for being me!


  282.  #282Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Flygirl re: 277

    I don’t think you are wrong for not wanting to hear about women in his past. You have every right to have whatever you want.

    And I totally get where you are coming from.

    At the same time, it is an opportunity to do some self-discovery.

    Maybe just an “I feel sad when I hear about past women in your life” would suffice.

    That was Rori’s recommendation for me…keep my FM’s short and sweet.

    Or maybe riff here about why you feel bad about this. By doing that you can release a lot of the emotional charge.

    Other than this issue, do you feel happy with your relationship with him?

  283.  #283Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Thanks DE.
    Thanks Tinque

  284.  #284flygirl on May 10, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Thanks for all the help.

    I am going to take your advice and just tell him I feel sad.

    I wonder if I am jealous deep down?…

    I am very happy with him. He is very loving, attentive, and my bestfriend.

    No one is perfect though and I do get annoyed when it comes to his daughter. For instance she made a mess with paint and painted her feet. He thinks it is funny and cleans up after her all the time. I do not like this and also do not think it is funny.

    He can be quite intense also and this adds some pressure that I am not sure how to deal with…

    Anyway I think these are small obstacles that we can get over (i hope)…do you agree with your relationship experience?

    are you still with the guy that showed you pictures? are things good, but you still have concerns? what do you do about your concerns? voice them or let them go? I find sometimes it is hard to decide what to do…ugg



  285.  #285DE on May 10, 2011 at 8:48 am


    Hmm…it seems like he really enjoys his little girl being a little girl…

    Many of us, women, forget to be “little girls” …I see this as an opportunity to let my hair down too…and darn it…paint my toenails with paint too…like his daughter…and have him clean us both …:)

    I totally understand though the feeling of being frustrated…it’s good to express it πŸ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  286.  #286DE on May 10, 2011 at 8:49 am


  287.  #287Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 8:51 am

    24: Tmizz

    “When am I going to stop negotiating with losers?”


    Girl, I hear ya. Story of my last four years of dating.

    In retrospect, I’m shocked at what I had been willing to put up with. Wowwww. My recent dating exploits since finding Rori are not much better in terms of results (still no potentially good relationship), but I do realize that I have avoided some of the losers by finally recognizing that I have boundaries and enforcing them. I do not cook for men anymore (hard when you are a foodie and former chef) unless and until there are many dinner dates he has planned and provided and it seems he’ll stick around awhile, no sex within first several dates unless *I* want to for my own reasons, no texting/calling/reaching out of any kind. I am learning from my mishaps instead of making the same ones over and over and wondering what my problem is.

    I still struggle with the melting and the FMs and the siren-y stuff, but the boundary setting has been my big lesson so far. I’ve been able to thwart, put off, or otherwise discourage most of the losers with my new knowledge. It’s very clear that the men who do not want something sincere will give up quickly and go elsewhere when faced with my resolve to be the girl but not be managed.

    I am also giving the “nice men” a try, even if they bore me a little.

    Tmizz…they can’t ALL be losers, can they?

  288.  #288flygirl on May 10, 2011 at 8:55 am

    It is fun to be a girl at heart!!!!

    Thanks for that perspective.

    I am just worring about the future (which I shouldn’t bc who knows if it will come) and thinking if we ever share a house it might/will drive me crazy if she does not pick up after herself.



  289.  #289Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 8:57 am


    ***Anyway I think these are small obstacles that we can get over (i hope)…do you agree with your relationship experience?***


    ***are you still with the guy that showed you pictures? are things good, but you still have concerns?***

    Yes, we are still together. Things are very good between us. Issues come up of course and we always work through them.

    I don’t have any concerns about his ex. I was unsure for a bit but not anymore.

    They are still friends and stay in contact. I actually really appreciate this about him. She was an important part of his life for a long time and I love that he still cares about her as a person and treats her well. For me, it is an indication of how much he respects and cares for people. There are no weird vibes. I have zero suspicion that anything “inappropriate” is happening.

    For instance, he had an airline voucher and he couldn’t use it before it expired. The voucher was only limited to flying from a certain airport which is far away from us so it was pretty much useless to him. His ex’s mom lives in that town though. So he gave the voucher to her.

    I love that! I felt awed by his generosity and thoughtfulness.

    ***what do you do about your concerns? voice them or let them go? I find sometimes it is hard to decide what to do…ugg***

    I would voice them occassionally and he would reassure me. One time he told me…

    “She is an amazing person and I really wanted for things to work out with her but you are the first WOMAN I have ever really been with. And I realize how important that it so me. I have zero desire to ever go back to her”

    Stuff like that.

    I believe that he reacted this way though because I didn’t blast him or make a huge deal about it.

    I feel sad
    I feel insecure
    I feel worried
    I don’t want to get hurt

    stuff like that…

    So because he didn’t feel defensive, he could see understand where I was coming from and he had a lot of compassion.

  290.  #290Tmizz on May 10, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Boomer – Thanks πŸ™‚

    No, they are not all losers. Definitely not!

    I’m sad that the one main non-loser-y guy that I went out with last week was of the kind that just did not turn me on, physically. But he wrote back to say that I sent him the nicest “not interested” letter he’s ever received, and that he’s still interested in me, if I change my mind. πŸ™‚

    Meanwhile, I am having an insight. Sometimes I *know* a guy is not right for me, and I get into the conversation anyway. Why? I’m not sure. All I know is, this other guy I was hung up on? So not right for me! If he was right for me, he would be RIGHT HERE, and he’s not. He’d be making me happy, and he’s not. If he’s not doing it, it’s not my problem. See? So easy.

    And these other guys – if they disappear on me, then it’s not my problem either, because *I* wasn’t that into them anyway. I’m waiting for the whole package – smart, sexy, fun, totally interested in me for who I am, and willing to be there for me, too.

    I can have that, because I deserve it. And I will get it.

    Rejection is protection.

    Thank you, Universe πŸ™‚

  291.  #291Tmizz on May 10, 2011 at 9:11 am

    QueenBee – I love it! You sound so positive.

    “who knows what he is thinking.”

    Exactly πŸ™‚

  292.  #292Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 9:19 am

    So now he is giving me the space I wanted
    And I feel ready to reach out.
    Well I am starting to feel ready.

    In the interest of staying off of rollercoasters maybe I will actually let him give me a few days space.

    But then I am scared…if I don’t ‘break’ the space first, he will, and he might do it to soon and I might judge him as pushy and disrespectful, which will push me away from him further.

    I am tired of men making mistakes that push me away.

  293.  #293Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Tmizz…hmmm. I find myself wondering why you were so quick to dismiss BisonMan. Was he just completely unattractive to you? In a “I just can’t fathom letting that thing touch me!” kind of way?

    I keep going back in my own mind to Rori’s recent post about allowing in the men who will LOVE US versus only the men WE CAN LOVE. I took it as meaning we should consider and then choose **potential for being loved by a GOOD man** over the exciting (but often fleeting) **chemistry.**

    Could you have given him another date? Just to see what might develop?

    her’s my similar situation: I had a wonderful time with a nice man two weekends ago. He too lives two hours away and came to see me specifically. We’ll call him IndyMan. He planned a long day-time date involving great food and an open-air market and a museum. PERFECT! (Not just the usual dinner and boring conversation). He is not “my type,” and even has some physical things about him that are usually turn-offs for me (not the greatest teeth, a skin condition called rosacea, and a very gentle–although not feminine–personal nature). BUT he was a perfect gentleman, he was gracious, he listened to me, he laughed with me, he brought me a book he thought I would like, and at the end he kissed me sweetly (he was nervous and that was so cute compared to the gropers and the aggressive men I sometimes meet)…and he followed up in ways that were not overwhelming to me (nice texts, an occasional call, but not too much, which a lot of men who seem to like me do–and which turns me off, much like it does Dorothea). Anyway, I am seeing him again this Saturday, and he is coming here again to ME and has planned another nice day involving the zoo and dinner at a place I had mentioned wanting to try. And he’s reading a book I mentioned to him as well so we can talk about it.

    Now, there are two other men I am much more physically attracted to who have not asked me out for this weekend, although there was talk about my being free to see them. So I am NOT going out with them. No matter when they ask or no matter if I am free. I very much want some time to myself to read and relax and even sleep in this weekend, so the one long date with IndyMan is all I plan to make time for. Both of these other men will complain that I am never available. I will joke sweetly that my dance card fills up fast–and they may or may not call again. And I am fine with that.

    I am going to give IndyGuy another good date to see if we have the makings of something substantial. I for one know that chemistry develops for me–so I am willing to give him a chance.

    I’ve had plenty of hot chemistry with poofers hoping for a connection. I want to try real connection and hope that perhaps eventually there might be chemistry.

    Maybe you could try the same with BisonMan? Just wondering…

  294.  #294Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Daria – I’m interested in EFT and I notice you do it a lot.

    How can I find out more? Is there a website/ you tube that I can go to to get started?

    Any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Many thanks!


  295.  #295Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 9:57 am

    nevermind, he is freaking texting me.

  296.  #296Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:11 am

    i told him it wasn’t cool to be bugging me like this.

    he is just ruining everything. why can’t he just respect me? he asked me to let him know of i wanted him to stop texting/calling altogether and i said i would let him know.

    you’d THINK he would wait to hear from me before sending me sh*t. then i told him i meant it when i asked for space, and he said “oh i was waiting for you to let me know how much.”

    yeah, so genius, the thing you do to show respect and boundaries is wait for the person to let you know.

    but now you’ve pushed me, and i feel like getting away ahhhhh run run run run run
    don’t call me, don’t text me, don’t do antyhing. just f*ck off.

  297.  #297Tmizz on May 10, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Queenbee – I posted a pretty good YouTube video earlier. And I think there is a website called with a lot of info on EFT.

  298.  #298turquoise3 on May 10, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Hi everyone, we’ve talked about The 5 Love Languages before, and today a link came up in an email that I get. I thought I’d share πŸ™‚

  299.  #299Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:27 am

    bad attitude:

    just when i am freaking starting to miss him and think awwww he really respected me this time, and just when i stop myself from reaching out to him because i realize if i ask for space, i should actually take a full day before running back so i don’t send weird messages….boom, he pulls the rug out.

    now i don’t even want to talk to him ever again. i feel totally defeated. everything feels futile.

    he did apologize and say he would back off. but you know what? it doesn’t feel good having to say “no back off” all the freaking time. liek serious, it hasn’t been 24 hours yet, can you please back off?

    i probably won’t talk to him for like a week.

    i’m so tired of this being like this.

  300.  #300Rusty on May 10, 2011 at 10:27 am

    @#56 & 57: Lucy says:

    That is, I can feel sexually attracted to a man I don’t find physically attractive – if and when he is making me laugh, smile, feel adored and special, etc. But the moment there is a lapse in those good feelings (thru no fault of his), the sexual attraction goes out the window. This concerns me bc in a ltr/marriage of course there will be lapses in good feelings, even if it’s just everyday stressors or working out a small problem.

    But with a man I feel physically attracted to, that physical and sexual component is still there, even during the lapses of other (emotional) good feelings. And that’s when I start to compare this guy with WH. WH makes me feel good just looking at him. He is aesthetically pleasing. That counteracts lapses in the emotional feel-good dept.


    Men get raked over the coals for being this way. Bottom line is that we are all hard wired to seek out the most “healthy” mate and what we perceive as beauty usually relates directly to “more healthy.” That and things that point to better genes.

    For instance, thin is preferred over heavy in most cases. Good teeth are preferred. Why? It’s not like it really does anything for you. A person with not so perfect teeth can chew their food just as good as somebody with perfect pearly whites. It’s a sign of health and good genes.

    Having a symmetrical face and body are considered good traits. A study was done by a university that took pictures of people, then used photoshop to create a duplicate of only one side of the face and then flipped it and used it as the opposite side also. In other words it made the face perfectly equal on both sides. This was put side by side with the original and people were asked to vote on which face was more attractive. In every case, the photoshopped face was chosen.

    This is why I say that people should just do what they can to make the most of what they have. Including working out. A better you will open more doors for you.

    OK, now here’s the problem with what you are saying. I am going to have to use those numbers everyone hates but like it or not, you do have a number. πŸ˜‰

    Anyway, suppose that you find yourself dating mostly 7’s, and fewer dates with 6’s and 8’s, and very rarely dated a couple of 9’s and 5’s. What this says, if you are open to it is that you are a 7. Now, while you may be the most attracted to an 8 or 9 and feel like you are settling if you don’t get an 8 or 9, you have to realize that the same is true for them. They may feel the same way you do. In fact, it is very likely that they do. This has been proven in a few university studies. They touched on them in something called “The Science of Sex Appeal.

    The exercise that they did in this video shows in a microcosm how this works.

    Typically we learn this in puberty but I think we sometimes have to relearn “our place” when exiting a very LTR.

    My point in all of this is that you said that being very attracted to a guy has a benefit that your attraction to him helps get you through the rough spots in the relationship. I 100% believe that, but if you are in a relationship with someone that is better looking than most of the men you date, it is very likely that you are not better looking than most of the women he has dated. Therefore, just like you said you could be in a relationship and happy with a guy you are not sexually attracted to, it is not only likely, but probably that this is the situation in reverse when you choose a man that is one of the more attractive men you have dated.

  301.  #301Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:32 am

    he said “it wasn’t clear that i shouldn’t be texting you”

    really? was it my saying i need space from your texting while sobbing that wasn’t clear?
    was it my not seeing you for weeks now?

    jeez. i feel so angry, i am so glad i can’t vent here instead of bottle it up and hurt myself or take it out on him.

  302.  #302Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:32 am

    *glad i can vent here

  303.  #303Daria on May 10, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Brenda – that is awesome! Mullein is so great! I feel blessed to discover it.

    Happy to hear you and your mom are feeling healthy.

  304.  #304Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:36 am

    what drives me the craziest about all this is that i was thinking about him and missing him, but just wanted to take more than 12 hours to know that what i was feeling is legit. but then he’s all up in my face again, disrespecting the space i asked for because he found a semantic loophole that made him feel permitted to do so.


    don’t try to push it at your earliest possible convenience, just cuz you’re insecure about it.

    ugh, so selfish and rude.

    i want to get away get away get away get away.

    would rather be alone forever.

  305.  #305Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 10:39 am

    i want to unfriend him on facebook so i don’t have to see the stupid sh*t he is putting on his wall. he KNOWS i am going to see it.

    uggghhhh i want space.

    i feel violated.

  306.  #306Daria on May 10, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Dorothea – hmm to me it ses you have a boundary hole here.

    As in, youre letting your boundary of ‘space’ be his responsibility… When it’s really yours. That’s hot to ne confusing for a man. Men are not good at Not pursuing. They are usually expected to persist even when women say no and walk away!

    It seems you’re creating your own problem here. If you don’t want to talk or text, you can enforce your own boundary by not answering calls and nit reading or answering texts. If you can let the texts go without reading , you may feel stronger and realize they don’t rattle you so much.

    I was mad at 19man and said goodbye, them didn’t read his multiple texts… After an hour I forgot about them. Didn’t read them till after the weekend.

    It seems like you’re trying to control Him by making sure he doesn’t text you, when you can instead honor your boundary on your side, and let him do his natural man thing of trying to pursue you.

    Hope this post doesn’t come off insensitive.

    Think you’ll feel better fast to notice you are string enough to take care of own space nerds without putting it in his hands.

    After all he may think, if I Dint text her, shell think I don’t care. Lose lose.

    This way, you don’t answer or read, yet also are pursued. Space and reassurance… Win win.

  307.  #307Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 11:09 am

    RE 294 Queenbee someone mentioned some time ago. Also Rori’s interview this month had some. Did you get that yet?

  308.  #308Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 11:14 am

  309.  #309The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 11:23 am

    #296 “he asked me to let him know of i wanted him to stop texting/calling altogether and i said i would let him know.
    you’d THINK he would wait to hear from me before sending me sh*t. then i told him i meant it when i asked for space, and he said β€œoh i was waiting for you to let me know how much.””

    Dorothea, sry to read it didn’t really work out yet. That’s what I feared would happen, so I came up with the idea to SPECIFICALLY tell him to stay away for x days remember? I saw the probability that else he would interprete your timeout in a way that would feel right for him (the shortest possible timespan), but not for you.

    I understand that you see this as insensitivity by the guy. And you’re right, it is. But no amount of blaming will change this, most men simply aren’t as sensitive as you women. A message that is clear for another woman may confuse a guy and result in him interpreting it differently. You have to use FMs and other tools to make a guy aware of your boundaries and wishes.

    So, try to make your point heard now with a FM, telling him clearly how much of a timeout you need. It sure is a good idea, all this back and forth only triggers you negatively now, understandably so. And after sending him the FM, don’t contact him. He would only see this as a cancelling of the communication break and go on as before. Remember what Rori said about leaning forward.

    I totally see that your guy must feel to you like a pain in the a** now, but on the other hand, he really seems to be into you very much. Consequential usage of Rori’s tools may guide him towards taking up his properly male role, within the boundaries you set. Imho it’s worth a try. Your mileage may var, of course.

  310.  #3102Change2Independence on May 10, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Sharing; My relationship with a man of 2 1/2yrs.,he ended because he accepted a dangerous government international security job with his long time employer. He said it was the hardest decision he’s ever had to make as to leaving family ..etc. We agreed to stay friends,that I want. He has a quality character that I don’t often meet. We both are in our 50’s. So, in reading Rori’s writings,though haven’t yet ordered the program, but have Chris Christian’s CDs. I do see I did many of the typical behaviors that made him feel like he couldn’t please me. As others,I’m going through a struggle with low-level job and generally not happy with myself. That’s the culprit. Now I’m working moment-by-moment towards making myself happy and staying busy with improving myself learning new skills.
    So Ladies,:) with my better self, when he does call or and return I may get a commitment from him or possibly have met a better man. Wish me luck! As I wish all Ladies here my best! ~Going with the Change, Living in Faith~

  311.  #311Rusty on May 10, 2011 at 11:28 am


    I read some of your posts and wanted to offer an opinion.

    #1, you mentioned that your friend didn’t really care about this guy, and if I remember right, you said she had even cheated on him.

    #2, if I remember right, she left him.

    #3, if I remember right, she invited you to live there.

    #4, if I remember right, this guy is just an all around great guy…not perfect…but nobody is, but he is a great guy.

    I am wondering if your friend was hoping that you two would hit it off so she wouldn’t feel guilty leaving him. Maybe she also thinks he’s a great guy even though she does not want him anymore and this made her feel guilty. but if she can pair him up with somebody, it makes her feel less guilty…maybe even makes her feel good about the situation.

    So this is what I would do. I would simply ask her if it would make her angry to see him with somebody else. Keep in m ind that she may feel the need to say it would bother her a bit. She may feel the need to say this for fear of making him appear to not be worth having. So she might say it would bother her a little bit, even while she may hope that you pair up with him.

    Unless she makes out that seeing him with somebody else would send her into psycho attack mode, ask her how she would feel if you entered into a relationship with him.

    Unless she begs you not to, then see it as a green light.

    At the same time, keep in mind this…love is a selfish matter on some levels. If she wanted him, she already had him. but she chose not to have him, thus what right does she have saying he is off limits? The only reason she might do that is to selfishly keep him in the fall-back position, for times she is lonely and doesn’t have anyone at the moment. That’s selfish and she has no right to keep him to herself if she does not want him as her main man.

    If you two get on great, that is all that matters. I have to friends that married two girls. What’s funny is that guy A actually started dating Girl B while Guy B initially dated Girl A. They had been hanging out as couples for a good while then went camping. On this camping trip, everyone realized that they preferred to be with the other person’s mate. So they agreed to switch and that’s where they are at to this day…many years later.

    One of the main ways we meet and get to know potential mates is through friends. Often as a result of that person dating one of your friends. You get to know what they are like, and as a result, may become very attracted to them.

    So where your discussion starts is that you discuss your friend’s feelings for this guy. What you are looking for is an opening to discuss the fact that she does not want him. If she cares about him and likes him as a person, that’s fine and a good thing. This is where you impress upon her that nothing could be better than her seeing him and somebody else that she cares about, getting together.

    Personally, I don’t think she would have a problem with you to getting together.

  312.  #312The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 11:48 am

    #268 “I have had the feeling lately that you were trying to compete with some of us women on here. I admit, I don’t want to have to dumb myself down or not get involved in an intelligent discussion or back and forth with a man (which I enjoy) so as not to come off as competing with him. But it’s something for me to work on, so as not to place myself in the β€œfriend” position or stay too much in a masculine or equal energy right away.”

    Liz, I thought about what you wrote, and inho it’s not a competitive thing. It’s rather the wish to be needed and also a quite stereotypical desire to fix things. I often stumble across problems here where I think the logical side of a problem hasn’t really been covered by the replies. But I also have come to the insight recently that for you girls the female energy approach, focussing on the emotions, often seems to work better (like in the Daria/Lucy discussion). And that too much masculine energy in the threats collides with that, as some Sirens, for instance Turquoise, have expressed.

    So, obviously, it’s once again the case that ‘less is more’. Some masculine energy is good, too much of it will bring negative results. As we just see in Dorothea’s story, where her guy hasn’t understood yet that he’s overdoing it and reducing his chances with her by doing so. Well, like you girls, we men sometimes need advice and the right tools to improve ourselves. But many of us, like this humble Sailor, are willing to work on problems. So,pls don’t expect us to be perfect, but give us a chance to show our true potential, Sirens!
    P.S.: Glad that you’re not totally gone, Liz! Pls give us some feedback every now and then about your adventures at the new job and with new guys, will you?

  313.  #313Liz on May 10, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Thank you so much for your words and advise The Lurker, I will keep in contact.

  314.  #314gina on May 10, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    possible speech – feedback strongly desired!

    It feels nice hearing from you, but I just don’t feel willing to be involved with you unless the behavior that often turned me “cold” is addressed. I felt turned off by needy controling behavior, and when i spoke of it, I perceived that you took my feelings as a personal affront and rejection. Instead of addressing my feelings by changing behavior, the behavior was more persistent and I felt betrayed when I saw you get your needs met elsewhere (alcohol, other women, or whatever). What I perceived is deep need that I don’t feel capbable of fulfilling as a woman, and that felt like pressure and objectification and posessiveness. I feel so sad that alcohol is used to do the job, and it interferes with my ability to connect with you. And I feel just awful about that. And I’m sorry I didn’t communicate better about it. I feel uncomfortable with words like “alcoholic” but the drinking was a major problem for me, but I didn’t know how to address it. And maybe I denied the issue because I liked enjoying moderate amounts of alcohol with you by the pool, etc. I worried that by considering alcohol a problem, it’d take the fun out of our relationship. But the times when I had to take care of you and forgive bad behavior because of too much drinking felt horrible and scary. I didn’t like the way that drinking and eating too much went hand in hand, and I saw and felt the results in my own body. I do love you and I would love for us to be “it” and I feel so bad that my feelings frequently went from hot to cold and that it hurt you and turned you away from me. But I know that it’s because of an issue that isn’t mine or your “fault”, but it is something that I have to leave you to address on your own. I support you in whatever way you want me to, but I won’t tolerate or enable. I love you and I would love to be able to connect and be with you. What do you think?

  315.  #315Liz on May 10, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Lucker, do you think I should contact him or just wait, he has not comunicated with me for 8 days, when he told me he will call me.

  316.  #316The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    313 “Liz”? That’s you, ‘Elizabeth xxxooo’ (as I memorize you in order not to confuse you with the new “Elizabeth”)?

    If it’s you, one more point: I never felt as if you were trying to compete with me. I also don’t feel as if Lucy is trying to compete with me, and she has been correcting me sometimes here recently. I don’t have a problem with that. So, really, don’t be afraid to discuss things with me. I always enjoyed ‘talking’ to you!

    Ok, if I would feel like a girl doesn’t want to have a friendly discussion about the issues, but rather wants to prove she’s more intelligent than me, I would step up to the challenge. Actually, the gender of a contender doesn’t matter at all in such a case, I would always try to ‘win’. Still, I don’t really like stupid p***ing contests about who has has the longer, uh, no, the higher IQ. Feels somewhat immature to me.

    However, imho this blog is a very unlikely place for such nonsense, that’s more typical of the political blogs. As we see here time and again, it’s most often not analytical intelligence which solves problems, but the emotional one, based on sensitivity for our feelings and those of others. And so. any competition about the smartest answers would totally miss the point here. It’s not the most sophisticated reply that counts, but the one that effectively helps the person in need! The discussions here are about assisting each other and learning more about people, both genders, and relationships. Let’s focus on that!

  317.  #317Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    RE 315 Liz if he said he will call I am thinking he might believe you are not trusting him if you call.

  318.  #318Liz on May 10, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Thank you Femininewoman for your advise, I’ll keep lisening to Rori’s cd’s to get strong

  319.  #319Liz on May 10, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    The Lucker, no I am only Liz, I did get confused too when I saw Elizabeth which is my name, but no we are two different persons, I registered as Liz and Elizabeth is somebody else

  320.  #320Rusty on May 10, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    316: The Lurker

    It’s not the most sophisticated reply that counts, but the one that effectively helps the person in need! The discussions here are about assisting each other and learning more about people, both genders, and relationships. Let’s focus on that!


    True, but often people don’t want to be helped, especially when they are made to face unsavory facts. For instance, everyone likes to feel they have a right to nit pick their prospective mates and toss aside prospective mates based on things such as the other person having more physical chemistry, but they do not like to think that the other person is likely doing the same thing.

    As a young man, me and some of my friends would talk about this very thing. How many young women were very sensitive to being rejected, especially over looks, but yet they were often doing the very same thing. One friend put it like this, “The fat girl thinks it’s unfair that the guy with the wash board abs rejects her only because she is fat, and overlooks all of her good qualities because of the package it comes wrapped up in. And yet, how many fat guys is she rejecting as she pines for the guy with the wash board abs?”

    This is one reason I was refreshed to learn that Rori teaches women to not make “chemistry” a high priority.

    I think what she means by that is basically what I was talking about above. We all tend to get a date or a short relationship here and there with somebody who is a bit better looking than our average dates. If we latch onto that and think that this indicates our “worth” we are likely chasing after something that won’t make us happy and thus allowing the right person to pass by…since we think we can do better.

    But people often don’t want to hear that.

  321.  #321Liz on May 10, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Hi Lucker, no is not me the one competing with you, on the contrary, I am very interesting in your imputs/advises, since you are a frog (men) I do want to pick your brain and know all you have to say about my situation. That is what I asked you if you think I should contact him when he told me he will, also let me tell you his phone # is disconnected, maybe he has no money to pay for it. He just got a job to months ago, He is the one who told me he does not want me to keep paying for anything, He feels low and wants to be the man and it was better to stop seeing each other, because he wants to organize his life and think. He also mentioned he is not seeing any other women and he’ll not do it, He feels it is not wright that he is telling me not to go out because he has no money and go out with another women.
    I did get a very good advise from Femininewomam
    I thank you all.

  322.  #322Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Not sure if anyone recommended this introductory tapping/EFT video yet, but I just found it extremely helpful and quick to get oriented to what tapping is and how to do it:

    I did it at work, and basically brushed off a feeling of sadness/frustration over BigBandLeader saying he’ll call me over the last six weeks and he never does. And I also attempted to address my boredom with my work.

    I feel better about the sadness/frustration. The jury is out on the boredom…

  323.  #323Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    298: turquoise3

    Every time I do a Love Language quiz, I come out rather indeterminate. Though usually it’s swayed slightly more towards words of affirmation or physical touch.

    I have never had a man give me gifts in any significant way or be much of a partner around the house, so I find I don’t even know how to respond to those sorts of options: “I love when my husband gives me nice gifts.” I just…I don’t even know what that feels like (both husbands and my one significant boyfriend since my divorce leaned toward cheap and lazy, frankly. Yikes,what does that say about ME and then I pick???). So I often have no response to the gift and “acts of service” questions.

    I wonder if I would even know what to do with a man who bought me gifts often. It might feel weird. Or like he was trying too hard. Eww…that feels yucky. I WANT to want and receive gifts graciously. Ewww…

    I have to go tap or something…

  324.  #324Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    TMizz, FW – thanks! I will check out those website.

    Yes, FW, I got it. And I got started… thanks!


  325.  #325Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    I’ve been having this judgement about HotAmazing man that he’s selfish… and then stuffing the judgement and resisting it.

    It’s terrible and I feel sad coz he has never done anything to show me that he is selfish. In fact quite the opposite…

    And I can see how I’ve been Sherlock Holms-ing for evidence.

    I know it has something to do with my ex-bf who was loaded and icky!

    I have a belief that if he doesn’t waste his money on me/ us/ himself then he must be selfish.

    If he didn’t and just loved me normally and abundantly I would freak out – ick!

    So now I’m noticing how this keeps me/ him/ us small and I can’t/ don’t allow myself to be open.

    Feelings the feelings of letting go… release….

    Feeling my love centre and my throat opening up… and allowing feelings to flow through…

    I want to heal this, thank you!


  326.  #326Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    I’m releasing the judgement that my ex wasted HIS money.

    It just was what it was.

    Just cuz I felt icky with HIM has nothing to do with how much he spent.

    I want to heal this, thank you!


  327.  #327Turquoise3 on May 10, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Boomer, love ya! πŸ™‚

    My ex did buy me a lot of nice gifts, but I didn’t often get quality time. I feel like my love language changes, and is often based on what I’m not getting. It would be really nice to get a mix of all those things, not just one or two.

    I dated a guy who I spent a lot of time with, but he didn’t always say how he felt, so I was missing the words of affirmation.

    Tom told me he could be all those things, but he was definitely physical touch, which I loved… but the lack of words was extremely stressful to me.

    Definitely good to be aware of the different love languages, but I think it’s best to try to give a little in all those ways, rather than just what we think their main one is. πŸ™‚

  328.  #328Turquoise3 on May 10, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Flygirl… I’d like to chime in a bit, from the other perspective.

    I am a divorced mom, and maybe can give you his perspective/ the other side of it. My past is a huge part of my life, and while my marriage didn’t work out, I did live and experience many wonderful things while married. I’m proud of that part of my life, and wouldn’t want to feel like I couldn’t share myself with someone new, because I was in a relationship with another man. It’s made me who I am, and to love me, includes all of who I am, not just who/where I am now. It would feel worrisome to me to be with a man who didn’t want to hear about my past or that huge chunk of time in my life because he wasn’t there with me. I’d think the man had jealousy issues… and that would be aturn off.

    As far as the daughter, you said a younger daughter… under 6? It’s always great to start teaching good habits at a young age, and maybe you could point it out in a non-telling-you way to do it.

    I love to see how much you love ________ and want to take care of her needs. That feels really caring to me. I remember when my dad did this ________________ and it taught me _______________. If it’s ok with you, I’d like to try and teach _______ something I think is important, like picking up after herself. Maybe we could come up with a game or a reward that would be a fun way for her to learn it now. I’d feel really happy sharing this with you.

    For example: I have a friend who does this marble reward system with her girls. Everytime they do something without being asked, like putting clothes in the hamper or hanging up their coats, they get a marble. When they earn 10 they get a prize. When they fill the jar, they get to go do something fun like a day at the mall, zoo, bowling or (whatever she might like to do, insert here). She could pick what she wants the reward to be, and it would be a fun way to try and teach her some good habits.

    I actually do the marble thing with my girls… and it has changed over time. First it was to get them to pick up, then to get ready for school and out the door on time without me having to say 50 times to brush their teeth… and now it’s to be kind to each other and we are filling the jar with marbles to go to an amusement park. It’s only been a few days, but they are so much nicer to each other already, I LOVE IT!

    If you can connect with the child, he’ll appreciate that. If you can’t, it probably won’t work. My ex has a finace, who in the beginning was really great to my girls, over time she got jealous of his time and attention focused on them, the girls began to resent her, feel uncomfortable with her, and the whole relationship/marriage is now on hold. It’s not the only issue they have, but I know he wants someone who will support and understand his relationship with his children, not resent it.

    Just some suggestions….. hope it helps! πŸ™‚

  329.  #329Mel on May 10, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Are “sorry’s” over-rated? Why do some people have such difficulty saying this word? Can actions mean sorry? I don’t want to have expectations around this, and yet it bothers me. Maybe it doesn’t matter. Hmmm… processing.

  330.  #330Mel on May 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm


    “I feel like my love language changes, and is often based on what I’m not getting.”

    I totally agree. It’s the law of scarcity. When we feel deprived of something, that thing is what we want most.

  331.  #331Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    I appreciate your advice lurker and daria about the space issue with my guy…but i already freaked out and got into tears with him on the phone

    i probably just pushed him away

    i did end up apologizing for blaming him for MY stuff, that it was my fears making me upset, not him saying “good morning beautiful”

    i feel like the world’s biggest f*ck up:(

    i went home from work because i felt so weak and sad after talking to him. i faked sick for the first time in years.

  332.  #332Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    i apologized to his voicemail because of course he wouldn’t dare answer after i made a huge deal about giving me space

    and then i texted him later i am sorry.

    i am such a loser:( i am so tired of crying:(

  333.  #333Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    i feel so upset and i’m sobbing. i feel hateful towards myself and super alone. and hateful towards him because my instinct right now is to reach out to him and tell him that i am upset and could use a hug

    but every time i’ve asked him for support it’s been an awful experience. he either flat out says no, says yes in a big way and then tells me no like an hour later before he ever comes thru, or tells me yes but doesn’t deliver when he shows up.

    why am i sobbing over a man who refuses to even be a friend to me?



  334.  #334Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    he just texted now that a few hours has passed from me texting i’m sorry:
    “i think i know how you feel now. I got your text that said sorry, but i’m scared of what will happen if i don’t respond, or if i do.”

    lol welcome to my hell. tickets are apparently buy one get one free today.

  335.  #335Queenbee on May 10, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    I feel scared

    i feel alone

    I feel judgmental of myself

    I feel like a failure – I’m noticing my judgement of myself and how this keeps me from experiencing/ expressing love and living in abundance, which is my Divine right.

    I love my judgmental-ness

    I want to heal this, thank you!


  336.  #336Ella on May 10, 2011 at 4:11 pm



    What can you do right now to look after yourself?


  337.  #337Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    i dunno i’m just sitting here paralyzed thinking about what i should say or do right now with him so he doesn’t abandon me forever.

    ok i can feel this issue coming up right this moment to be processed, sayin hello, i am your fear of abandonment.

    im not sure what to do with it though.

  338.  #338Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Dorothea: Are you into eft?

  339.  #339Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    lg, sure why not? i’ve only done it a couple of times.

  340.  #340The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    #337 Dorothea, his last message was β€œi think i know how you feel now. I got your text that said sorry, but i’m scared of what will happen if i don’t respond, or if i do.”? Well, that shows he has feelings, too, and is afraid to lose you. So, don’t panic, he won’t leave you now. But still, his response isn’t that great, since he should lead and not simply mirror your emotions.

    That’s even more reason to use Rori’s tools to make him find his way into the male side of the relationship. Did you answer his text yet? How about a FM like “I feel afraid and confused. I don’t feel like talking much now, but I don’t want to push you away. What do you suggest we should do now?”
    How about this? Giving him a hint he should lead, which should trigger his masculine side. Whatever he suggests, he will feel bound by it, because it was is own idea. And if you don’t like what he comes up with, you can react with another FM. What do you think, Dorothea?

  341.  #341Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    i started pushing love out from my heart onto him and myself, and that made me feel a lot better and feels really soothing when i do it. it feels right and peaceful when i do that. it’s like i can’t worry or even care to worry about texting him back or what will happen when i say this or he says that or blah blah blah AND send love out at the same time.

    i am going to now try pushing love out from my heart onto someone i am planning a wedding shower with who is driving me nuts and myself.

    love baths work nicely in this world:)

  342.  #342Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    i have not answered, lurker.

    i feel really appreciative and lucky that people are here responding to my situation. thank you

  343.  #343Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Dorothea: I love Lurker’s advice for when you do decide to respond.

    I also love love baths. It is hard to focus on anything else when doing that. I breathe love in on the inhale and then send it out on the exhale. I like to remember to give some to myself too ya know. πŸ™‚

  344.  #344The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    #343 Welsome, Dorothea.
    Would be good if someone gave HIM some advice , too. He seems to be at least as confused as you are.

  345.  #345Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Ella – as a jr transfer at a new college, I noticed a v pretty frosh girl flirting with this “avg” frosh guy every time he played pool. I was curious what she saw in him so I started hanging around. Then she and I became bff’s and she told me how much she liked him, then the Three of us became bff’s, then he told me he liked Me! I didn’t want to hurt her and I did kinda like him, so I told her the whole truth and that I would handle it however she wanted me to. She was amazing – said she loves us both and w

  346.  #346Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    lurker, you said it just how i would so i’ll probably send him exactly that. thanks for the feminine stamp of approval too, LG

  347.  #347Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    wants us to be happy. So he and I became bf/gf and we all three stayed v close friends. Three months later she was hit by a car and died and it broke my heart into a million pieces. πŸ™ She was an absolute angel and the best friend I ever had. <3

  348.  #348Maria on May 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I have been trying to email rori @ the email address she gives on her eletters. However, It keeps comming back (failed delivery status). Where should I email her?

  349.  #349The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    #345 Hehe, Lucy, your comment confused me for a second or two. Are you aware that “frosh”, written “frosch”, is the German word for frog? Lol.

    But I’m sad about the tragic end of your story. I lost some good friends in my life, too, I know how that feels. It often helps me to remember my late buddies when I have a problem, and to imagine how they would have reacted on this. It’s a bit like they live on as virtual persons. As long as we think and feel, our friends are not gone, either.

  350.  #350Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Thank you Queenbee, I’ve realized how the experiences I read here trigger me to write, and what a huge gift that is. I wrote this with you in mind – and, your milage may vary! xo

    I’ve got to admit it – I had no idea how to get a man to give me anything for most of my 20’s. My first ever boyfriend when I was 15 was amazing! As a socially deprived child I got to have a complete childhood do-over. He took me to the circus, took me to the Disney like amusement park and spent $200 – a long long time ago that was a fortune; the experience of having anything at all I wanted, the feeling of overflowing abundance was intoxicating! He regularly showed up with armloads of flowers, that he jumped fences and took. Once, he got a gun pulled on him and sweet talked the man into letting him have the flowers. I was enchanted! And it all just….happened. I had very little attention on him, I was becoming my own person. And while he did these things, my life was sweet. Over time, though, he quit.

    And then came Mr. Tightfist – he brought a $30,000 cigarette raceboat (back in the same decade) – and gave me $60 for Christmas to buy sweaters. He drove a new Trans Am, I drove a Pinto that needed a tire badly. I never even realized how I slid into it was enough just to get to ride in the raceboat, or how we looked in the raceboat. We were striking. Me blonde haired and blue eyed, him black haired and black eyed. I was in love and lust and a tangled web of infatuation and longing to be with every man I met as well. Thus went my 20’s. And anyway, this was the decade that birthed sex, drugs, rock and roll and women’s equality into existence. It was all good.

    Until I inherited a falling down house and a mother’s last wish that I own my own home. That changed things. Probably the biggest goal I’d ever had was to make that happen. Far bigger than learning a foreign language and living in a foreign country on my own. And now – I was 40.

    I cleaned myself up, I kept my job and I got a second job. Suddenly, I was raking in the cash. Men were once again just falling all over themselves to “give” to me. It was the renaissance of my 20’s and this time I had a mission. I dated a whole lotta cute guys for about 2 years, and I then I needed a roof. Cute and handy wasn’t going to get me anywhere, except married. And that – explicitly – wasn’t what my mother had in mind.

    Everyone always wants to know how I got cash. Flowers are easy, the “good” gifts – jewelry, lingerie, furniture, clothes – a little harder to come by. And honestly? I never asked for a penny. I don’t ask men for money. Never have, wouldn’t do it.

    I do however let them see my need. As in I have a need to put a roof on my house, I have a need to re-build the back wall. And that, coupled with a generous man, was enough. I got the money. Enough to re-build the house, to buy a new house and to learn to let myself love the gifts he gave.

    And I’ve never felt badly. Actually, I felt happy. It made him so happy to give to me, it was a beautiful thing. He’d be so proud of himself when he put a new glass screen door on my house, when he paid yard guys to spread my dirt, or plant grass.

    And I realized a valuable lesson, probably known for eons by the smart women. The best thing to do is let a man do what he will (they will anyway, it’s impossible to stop them). If you’re man is giving you jewelry, or making your car payment just trust that it’s because he wants to. The worst thing you can do is question it or disallow it. It’s like saying I don’t want your love.

    And if your man is Mr. Tightfist – well, you’ve got a choice to make.

    There’s more to this story of how I came to realize I wanted a generous man, of how I even began to be able to ask for what I needed. I couldn’t do that with other men and it was a problem. I remember an ex yelling tell me what you want, tell me what you need. And I just couldn’t. I’d been raised to know with a high degree of certainty that if I were to say what I wanted or needed, it was guaranteed I would not get it.

    I had to learn how to un mute myself. I had to learn how to receive. I had to learn how to show my gratefulness and joy. And most of all – I had to learn that a man does what a man wants to do. And when he no longer wants to do it, he stops doing it.

    And when he does, I’ve got a choice to make.

  351.  #351Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    ok sent the text. i feel anxious. i havent quite mastered responding to things i don’t like, so if his suggestion doesn’t feel good, i really haven’t figured out how to communicate that effectively or appropriately.

    but omg how exciting that i get to try to figure it out tonight!

  352.  #352Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    “I’d been raised to know with a high degree of certainty that if I were to say what I wanted or needed, it was guaranteed I would not get it.”

    me too. and i still believe this and see this in my own life.

  353.  #353The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    #351 Make the next step when and if its necessary, Dorothea. Don’t worry about this now. The Sirens and Sailors have your back. Everything will be alright. Relax now, focus on yourself to refresh your energies, like Daria would do.

  354.  #354Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    feeling so juiced at the positive, optimistic possibilities for healing and happiness and health!!

  355.  #355Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    going for a walk (without this mobile communication portal thingy)

  356.  #356Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    and thanks for the rock solid advice and support

  357.  #357Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    I really enjoyed reading your post Jaqueline. Thanks for sharing that.

    I’m still working on the asking means I won’t get it thing too. Baby steps…or maybe quantum leaps, who knows πŸ™‚

  358.  #358Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    300 Rusty. Fascinating essay. lol. No worries, though – WH is physically attracted to me and I to him … so maybe we are the same “number”…? To me, the best scenario is when both are physically attracted. Just curious, those Sirens who have seen WH on fb… what number would you give him? The thing is, I see him as a 10 but I don’t think most other women would – I think there is a lot of personal preference that goes into who finds whom attractive.

  359.  #359Mel on May 10, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Went to a really relaxing and calming yoga class yesterday. The stretching was great for my tight muscles and at the end we did a meditation which really helped calm my mind. Finally she told us to take hold of all the “stuff” that’s been weighing on us, put it between our hands and press it into dust. Then she said to blow it into the wind and let it go. “For some of you,” she said “you might need to use a few breaths to release it all, but don’t judge yourself for that.” What a freeing exercise! πŸ™‚

  360.  #360Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    he says
    “my suggestions you will see as slightly self serving, as i think it’s best i see you and give you a big hug, and let you feel safe around me, maybe that will ease some of this. But as far as you wanting space but not wanting to push me away, is very hard to grasp how this works. I’m done pushing you away any further, which is why i’m really trying to give you the space you’re asking for.”

    what do u guys and gals think?

  361.  #361Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    i feel really grateful that we’re back in constructive communication mode.

  362.  #362Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    not that i want to communicate with him any more than i already am…as i still havent quite taken my space. which is on me, sigh, not him.

  363.  #363Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    i don’t think that is a self-serving suggestion on his part at all. i feel confused. i think that is a great solution to many things.

  364.  #364Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Lurker, I love reading about how you are learning some beautiful truths here by observing us. πŸ™‚

  365.  #365Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    woah i feel overloaded with thinking about this and am going to take a time out. be back later on!

  366.  #366Lily T. on May 10, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    #350 Jacqueline,

    I found that post very interesting to read. Some of it resonates with my own life/past. Thank you for sharing.

  367.  #367Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    I think I would give TN man a 9.5 and “the other guy” an 8.

  368.  #368Mel on May 10, 2011 at 6:04 pm


    “I’d been raised to know with a high degree of certainty that if I were to say what I wanted or needed, it was guaranteed I would not get it.

    I had to learn how to un mute myself. I had to learn how to receive. I had to learn how to show my gratefulness and joy. And most of all – I had to learn that a man does what a man wants to do. And when he no longer wants to do it, he stops doing it.

    And when he does, I’ve got a choice to make.”


    Wow! Those words really resonated with me. I’m really feeling the “if you ask, you shall NOT receive” thing right now. I’m wondering though, if deep down it’s because somehow I don’t think I deserve it?

    If I really thought I deserved it, I wouldn’t need to ask would I?

  369.  #369SummerBaby on May 10, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Dorothea, it sounds like he’s really trying to honor your wishes and is actually asking you what would feel best to you.

    He WANTS to hug you, but doesn’t want to push you away. So you could say, come over and hug me for 30 minutes, then give me 48 hours of no contact (no phone calls, texts, emails or FB messages – nothing) so I can process what’s happening with me.

    or whatever it is that would feel good to you.

    Help him help you!


  370.  #370The Lurker on May 10, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    #360 Well, do you feel like seeing him in the next days? In this case, you could set a date with him, and tell him to reduce the texting and calling until then. He should get that, since he wouldn’t want to endanger the date.

    If you don’t feel like meeting him in the next time, I would simply ignore that suggestions. Instead, a FM saying you feel overwhelmed by too much attention recently may be the right idea, followed by stating a boundary that puts a cap on the texts and calls. Like, say, you don’t feel good when your work is interupted, or whatever works for you.

    Hmm, any ideas by the other Sirens?

  371.  #371Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:25 pm

  372.  #372Lucy on May 10, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Tinque, I feel happy that you feel good about what went on here last night. <3

  373.  #373Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 6:29 pm


    Hi Lurks! I like your response a lot!

    I like how you share your perspective and advice with the sirens, knowing how you and other kinds of men think, feel and act in certain situations.

    I really don’t know why I said that to you,
    because now I really can’t think of where you
    were competitive. I dunno, it’s just my stuff.
    and i must have been looking for someone here to
    be the fall guy…congratulations!! πŸ˜‰

    But back to what you said–i had an aha moment
    from reading that.

    This forum is really not the place to practice
    logical reasoning type writing. It’s for practicing
    expressing genuine feelings in order to get
    better and better at communicating exactly what is going on for us.

    It’s kind of like learning a language by immersion. You go to the class and you may only speak French at all times, and then, voila! one day you are fluent!

    I’d like to get away from commenting “about” what is going on, but rather express in the simplest terms, what is happening for me around what I perceive. Or else say nothing at all, which is OK too.

    I know this works better in RL relationship, too.

    Yes, i may not be able to participate here as much (waaaaaah!!) but will whenever I can.

    Thank you for the hug, that felt warm and tingly!


  374.  #374Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Maria send it

  375.  #375Femininewoman on May 10, 2011 at 6:31 pm

  376.  #376Lilybelle on May 10, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    369: SB~

    I really like this as an feels peaceful and loving.

    Dorothea? What do you think?

  377.  #377Daria on May 10, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    19 1i1o man texted me ‘thanks for accepting me as i an. Much appreciated ‘

    Yay. I didnt even answer his last text w was im leavng tomorrow at 6

    Now he say he’s hot good news he’s. Still in town. And. Won’t. Leave. Till he sees me


  378.  #378Kristine on May 10, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    After going through what many of you are going through now…the hurt, the sadness, the longing and hoping, the uncertainty of whether or not to respond to texts and emails, etc., I made a choice. I chose for myself that I WANT TO BE IN A HEALTHY LOVING RELATIONSHIP. I realized that the man I was interested in at the time wasn’t cut out for that. I had to give him up. I also realized that the only way to get what I want, was to put myself out there and start from scratch. Start completely new. From the beginning. Baby steps.

    So, I joined a few dating sites. Put up a couple of nice happy pics. Said I was just interested in being friends and getting to know people. That’s it. And it worked! Men began contacting me. After screening them on the phone, I went out on a date. Each time with only one very simple goal in mind. JUST GET TO KNOW HIM. As Rori said, be curious. Just think about making new friends.

    Funny, the moment I thought that, my vibe shifted and the guys were flocking to me and I had to do NOTHING.

    I also decided that I would not text or email anyone. Only answer the phone. If a guy didn’t want to talk to me, guess what…he wasn’t interested in what I wanted…a REAL HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP. I never thought about him again.

    Many tried to email and text and all i did was give them my number if I felt interested in them. The rest was up to them. I was open to them. Open to talking and meeting. But they had to initiate everything.

    And it worked! I met my now fiance, who is a wonderful man. At first, I wasn’t sure I liked him. He was cute, but not gorgeous. He was very different from me. There were things about him I thought were odd. But I didn’t run away. I just kept examining HOW WELL HE WAS TREATING ME. That was all that mattered. He treated me kindly. He called when he said he would call. He still calls me EVERY DAY. I rarely call him, except to return his call. He showed up every time. He never got angry. He never criticized me for anything. He DOES STUFF FOR ME. He doesn’t have a lot of money, but a man who loves you will show it throught his actions.

    Occasionally he would do something that irked me. I would simply state how I felt. He listened. He found another way. He came to me when I felt bad. I learned to trust him. I also learned to trust myself that I could be happy and HAVE A HEALTHY AND HAPPY RELATIONSHIP.

    After our first date, I let him kiss me. He leaned forward. I didn’t know if I wanted to kiss him. But I figured “you have to kiss a few frogs to find your prince”. So I did. It felt good. And I told him that.

    By the third date, I realized he really was a great guy. I had grown phyiscally attracted to him. He wanted sex (actually we both did). While he was pushing for it I just straight out told him I did not want just sex, I wanted a relationship. I was prepared to leave. But then he surprised me. Funny, on the dating site he said he was just looking for friendship (not relationship) and now he was asking me for a relationship and to take down my dating profile…to be exlusive with him. I asked if he was seeing anyone else. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable being exclusive if he wasn’t. He said no. He took his profile down the next day.

    He proposed to me two months later. I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I am so in love with him. He is a true man. And he is in love with me. A feeling woman. We’ve been together for 6 months now. Its been amazing! I don’t want to rush into marriage, so I told him I want to spend at least one year getting to know him better. In the meantime we are (more like he is) planning the wedding for next year.

    So that is where I’m at. I just wanted you ladies to all believe in yourselves too and do what Rori teaches, because it truly works. It starts with you. You have to make the choice. You have to let the bad ones go and move on with your own life.

    Love is supposed to be EASY. Just stop doing and worrying. Get out there and be friendly and free. When its your time, love will find you. Don’t run and hide when it does, because its scary at first. I know. I had to sit with my scary feelings many times when things started to go really well with my guy. I am still scared about the future…but I will let it unfold as it is meant to be. And I have a wonderful man who truly wants to be with me, cherishes and adores me, because I stood up for what I wanted.


  379.  #379Laughing Goddess on May 10, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Awww Kristine! My heart feels melty reading your story.


  380.  #380Sammie on May 10, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Wow! What a great story, Kristine!
    Kind of makes me wonder…does one
    say I’m looking for my forever guy?
    Or, say I’m just looking to meet people?

  381.  #381Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Can I ask for some thoughts going into a date I just accepted?

    I know I said I was not going to accept any more offers for this weekend beside IndyGuy, but BigBandLeader actually finally called tonight after six weeks. We had three dates a couple of months ago, and on date three we got a little freaky (you know what I mean). The he didn’t exactly “poof,” but he didn’t really step up either. There were “Happy Easter” texts and occasional emails saying he was ill again (chronic bronchitis and colds and stuff it seems) and assertions that he wanted to see me again and would call soon. I only responded to texts and emails, and never initiated contact/leaned forward at all.

    So he called tonight (I considered not answering as I was heading to bed), and he asked if I was free this weekend. I said I had a couple opportunities to see him. He asked to see me Friday evening after my wine class (so excited about THAT!).

    What I need some input on: how do I approach Friday night? I feel like I hardly know this man now as it’s been so long. The fact that we were intimate seems…surreal?? Like I hardly remember it, but yet I know it happened. I don’t want to go there with him again. The semi-poofery really confused and bugged me. Made me feel bad, like I was “Plan B” all along. I’ve seen him live on the dating site where I met him, and so I know he’s still looking, so I just feel like maybe he thinks I’ll be an easy score again. And I know it’s not my job to get in his head…I know.

    Am I being unfair to him? How do I just have no expectations and try to enjoy myself? Do I state what I want (a relationship) and don’t want (just sex and/or six weeks between dates)? or do I just go with the flow, be curious, be open, and respond to whatever he puts out there?

    I tapped/EFT’d about the disappointment I felt over this guy today. Funny thing is, I got over him several weeks ago after little contact. Is that why he’s back?


    Appreciate any insight.

  382.  #382Dorothea on May 10, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    i’m exhausted and never answered. i’m going to sleep. zzzzzzzzzz

  383.  #383T-Girl on May 10, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Kristine – I love your story! Thank you for posting it.

  384.  #384Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Thank you who commented! I know this kind of double blind I can’t ask for what I want, but they won’t know if I don’t ask communication thing is huge in relationships. It took me a long time to even figure out that it existed, like a fish doesn’t know water….

    And, Mel, I’m not even entirely certain it has to do with what we think we deserved? For me it was an ingrained fear of asking, part of a lifetime of incidents where if I asked for a slushie I’d be told I was GOING TO GET you one and now you’ve ruined it!!! And it’s common for people who don’t want to meet our needs to do that – turn it back around on us.

    It’s hard, therefore, for me to even let myself show neediness. That’s more the key for me, to be vulnerable, to be open to trusting someone will care enough to make it better – that’s huge!

    And I know enough real life situations where you can need and ask and beg and it’s still not going to get you what you want. The men will do what they will do thing is huge in that arena, and all we get to do is “vote” with our presence.

    Hope things are going well for you at the JOB! and you are happy and also making a back up plan. I’m a huge advocate of a back up plan for life. Smile…

    I want to change the way I appear here, too so will be doing more personal posting and less individual commenting; it just feels better for me. Keeps it real for me without feeling defensive or needing to defend. It’s just my truth and my experience and I so appreciate being able to relate to everyone else’s experiences and conclusions too!

    About the if you’re a 7 you’ll know cuz you’ll date 7’s. I think the numerical categorization thing is biased in much different ways than just looks or hair. It’s all about what we have to bring to the table as a woman, or in a relationship. We’ve all seen or have heard about that woman who just makes the most of what she has – like Sarah Jessica Parker – so not symetrical and soft featured with big eyes…yet seen as beautiful by so many.

    I think if you look around you to measure who you are it would result in a mistaken categorization. I’d look within me to see who I wanted to be and then surround myself with self love and loving people to become that.

    Best to all –


  385.  #385Boomer on May 10, 2011 at 9:00 pm


    “I think if you look around you to measure who you are it would result in a mistaken categorization. I’d look within me to see who I wanted to be and then surround myself with self love and loving people to become that. ”

    I love that!

    It’s kind of like dressing for the job you want to have.

    How are you doing, J???

  386.  #386kaitlyn on May 10, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    What part of myself should I display to a guy who’s depressed, has low self-esteem, and angst? The side of me like that? Or the confident, upbeat side? Which will attract him more?

  387.  #387Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Hi, Boomer – I’m good. Have been a whirlwind of activity in gardening and on computer – IE9 was apprehensive but I did it and it’s great and actually faster, and I can pin the blog at the bottom – I was having a compatibility refresh issue with IE8. Interesting job interview tomorrow and boyfriend is being easy to live with. Yeah!

    Are you still in pain, have they disolved, do you have to get another ultrasound….I hope it’s all better!

    About the guy – I feel hesitant – how do you feel? To me, they’re usually after a repeat performance…but you are in control of that scenario. Maybe say to him, gosh it’s been so long, I barely feel like I know you. How about a nice dinner/cup of coffee to catch up and we’ll see where it goes?

    And good luck with it. Friday night will be fun with or without him, sounds like!


  388.  #388Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Kaitlyn – ummmm…wow, good to see you again! Do you want a guy like that? I think it’d be a better “hook” to be like him if you do, but wish you could just show him yourself.

    Good luck!

  389.  #389kaitlyn on May 10, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    I like him. That is all. Basically, I’m describing adam whom i suspect is back in town.

  390.  #390Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 9:34 pm


    Hi Kaitlyn,

    I feel resistance to that type of approach,
    like it’s too much strategic planning and overfunctioning,

    I’d try to respond from a
    feel your feelings, trust your boundaries, choose your words, be surprised place.

    Are you talking about Adam ? πŸ˜‰


  391.  #391DE on May 10, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Kristine #377:

    Thank you so much for the sharing your story…Just beautiful πŸ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  392.  #392Elizabeth on May 10, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Hi Jacq!
    Enjoyed reading your posts this evening!
    Glad to hear you are well!



  393.  #393kaitlyn on May 10, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    387 I’m truly both sides. Usually a black cloud type chick, however. I was born in a sh1tty mood.

  394.  #394Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Hiya Elizabethoooxxx…. thank you and glad you’re hear and lol! I was wondering if we were talking about Adam too.

    Hugs Kaitlyn.

    Nite everyone….

  395.  #395DE on May 10, 2011 at 9:51 pm


    I think u are doing great!!! I felt very inspired by the way you expressed yourself in your riffs…u seem more and more focused on You and not him…also u seem aware of making judgments of him…and you are working on healing them and making a shift…

    That’s just awesome πŸ™‚

    Warm hugs,

  396.  #396Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    glad you’re here to hear me? ooops face w/ a smile

  397.  #397Nanceen on May 10, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Kaitlyn, you asked “What part of myself should I display to a guy who’s depressed, has low self-esteem, and angst? The side of me like that? Or the confident, upbeat side? Which will attract him more?”

    Personally, from what I have read of your post, I have seen these glimmers: , the side of you that is confident and upbeat is your “who (you are)”. the real you. The side of you that is low, depressed, etc, is just a “do (what you have done)”. not real. I have read a lot of your posts, I get on here a lot but dont comment, especially lately, I just read.

  398.  #398Nanceen on May 10, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Is Tinque on tonite? I wanted to ask her a question. I finally got the guts to say and send an honest to god feeling message to bf. It must of been a real one because he wrote back a whole page!!! He NEVER did that and he did it the very next day.

    I am not upset at all, in fact I feel this very workable and some amazing communication has been opened up. But I am nervous. I want to respond correctly. I wanted to show her some of it and get her input.

  399.  #399Nanceen on May 10, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Jaqueline: “And I realized a valuable lesson, probably known for eons by the smart women. The best thing to do is let a man do what he will (they will anyway, it’s impossible to stop them). If you’re man is giving you jewelry, or making your car payment just trust that it’s because he wants to. The worst thing you can do is question it or disallow it. It’s like saying I don’t want your love.” I like the whole story, it is similar to my stuff in the past. I too have had a few rebirths. You know kind of like Liz Taylor ditching a husband, ballooning up and then getting it all together again.

  400.  #400Nanceen on May 10, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    Hello hello hello hello

    is anybody here here here here…..

  401.  #401Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Nanceen! I hear you…haha…something drew me back. Clicking on Tinque’s name will take you to her blog – but you’ll probably have to wait until the a.m. to talk to her – on CA time. She’s been checking in in the mornings on what happened at night…and I guess everyone’s been awake all night for a week and they’ve gone zzzzzzzzzzs???

    Hugs and for me too it’s lights out.


  402.  #402Jacqueline on May 10, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Love the re-invention story – Kirstie Ally is another one! yeah

  403.  #403Daria on May 11, 2011 at 1:10 am

    Nanceen happy birthday for earlier!

  404.  #404RiverGirl on May 11, 2011 at 1:36 am

    Thanks Daria for your input re the beauty pageants and Elizabeth thank you for reminding me about “Little Miss Sunshine”. I saw it a few years ago, so sweet and funny too!

  405.  #405Daria on May 11, 2011 at 1:48 am

    Oh also I saw getright today. It felt awesome!

    I was feeling in a great vibe!

    And since ive dropped the ball on wanting a relationship w him

    I’m looking at him w love, the way I do w my brother

    I’m not judging him or feeling anxious over him.., and he seems attracted to me and treating me well

    He even shared his beer w me which is uncommon for him lol!

    And then we went to eat next door which is a church.., u feel So excited to find that they have free food EVERYDAY.!!

    This means never being hungry again!! ESP cuz around the corner is at Vincent de paul and they have free lunches.

    Like life is good, this is the best place on Earth!

    And I’m gona get a free bus pass too

    Woo hoo for my feeling awesome. I super stood up for getright too because earlier I was w some people and they were like He punched this girl (the one he was dating)

    And I’m like yeah but she seems like she participates and even starts stuff like that (started drama w me, and one time banging on his windows when I was there)

    I said he Neber hit me and thats my friend, I love him.

    Plus at his age, I was pinching people too, that’s how I fell in love w my ex. What a wild warrior girl I was, I used to fight for fun.

    Anyway, I feel glad I don’t hang out sriund Grtright when he’s drunk, and will be extra careful, cuz I don’t want to get punched and I didn’t know he was in the habit of physically fighting w her like that.

    So that was a whoa to hear.

    I felt so good earlier at friends house everyone was praising and admiring me and my style and body and just loving me.

    And my girl whis a lesbian was like Daria loves herself. And I felt so happy she could see it!

    It’s like my vibe made the whole party feel good and lovely! Super goddess vibe!

    Super excited about my teleseminar on Goddeses and tools it’s gina be Sarurday 1 pm pacific.

    Email me to sign up so I can send u the info to look at before, cuz I’m making a lil packet to view before the seminar.

  406.  #406Daria on May 11, 2011 at 1:50 am

    Kaitlyn – in my experience no matter how depressed themselves, guys still like feminine soft attractive women the most. Maybe it evenakes them More selective on that cuz it takes good boundaries and a lot of non judgement to be around guys like that. Thinking of getright man. When I’m confident he seems more attracted.

  407.  #407Daria on May 11, 2011 at 1:55 am

    I feel so excited to read what looks like juicy posts from today .. Tomorrow! Woo hoo feel good transformative food for reading

  408.  #408Daria on May 11, 2011 at 2:03 am

    The healing we did on blog really carried through in my vibe. And I think the matrix reimprinting EFT I did.

    I had one instance of feeling bad, when the lady next to me criticized me, and even then I saw it as an Opportunity to practice residing my brain circuits and change the pattern of addiction to pain by going over it again and again.

    It felt really challenging, but I took lots of Babysteps.

    In the future this will be totally healed and I’ll be like, immune to criticism making me feel humiliated and traumatized!

    Holy cow!

    This will be awesome.

  409.  #409Mel on May 11, 2011 at 5:08 am


    ” I’d be told I was GOING TO GET you one and now you’ve ruined it!!! And it’s common for people who don’t want to meet our needs to do that – turn it back around on us.”

    This is interesting. For even bringing up the topic of sex, I can guarantee that I will be “punished” with at least another week (usually more) without sex. Your take on the matter of WANTING to meet needs makes sense. If someone doesn’t WANT to do something, they will look for any excuse not to do it. And if they can blame you for it, even better.

    My point is that if I felt that I deserved to be treated better, I wouldn’t stand for this treatment. By tolerating it, I am saying it’s okay to treat me this way. I like how you said that I can vote “with my presence.” This feels good. I don’t necessarily mean walking out on the relationship completely, but deciding not to remain in the room if I am being called names or disrespected is one example of how I could vote with my presence.

    Earlier this week, my husband told me he would be home for dinner, but then didn’t even bother to call me to tell me he would be late. By 6:45 (and dinner getting cold), I decided that if that’s how it’s going to be, I’m going to eat by myself, leave his dinner on the counter to get cold and go to a yoga class. I did not even want to be around when he got home. When I got home later, I felt more relaxed, my anger was gone and I felt better for taking care of myself. No one else is going take care of me if I don’t do it!

    I’m going to vote with my presence more and more. I deserve it!

  410.  #410SummerBaby on May 11, 2011 at 5:25 am

    Mel, you deserve to treat yourself with love and respect so you can teach him how to treat you!



  411.  #411AmazingMe on May 11, 2011 at 5:45 am

    Sometimes we think our lives should be a certain way, we should act a certain way, not let people control us…this backfires and we end up being vulnerable to others. It is when we act how we feel is right and not care what others think that we are happy. No control of the outcome is good when you remain calm and happy with your decisions, OUTCOMES are life. Your outcomes=your life=your in control of you. I think this daily and it has helped me in many ways. I do not try to control as much as I used to. I am still a work in progress, but what a difference and stress reliever when you change to this way of thinking. πŸ™‚

  412.  #412Ella on May 11, 2011 at 6:02 am

    Mel re 359,

    Great, what a lovely post! So nice to see you doing things for yourself and our yoga class sounds Divine!

    Big hugs to you Siren!


  413.  #413Ella on May 11, 2011 at 6:05 am


    I feel happiest and most serene when I am doing what feels right. Usually I only get into anxiety and start wondering what others will think if really I am doing something that deep down I am not ok with, ie on some level I am uncomfortable or am not doing what is truly in alignment with my feelings.

    Hmm, that is useful learning for me.



  414.  #414Ella on May 11, 2011 at 6:10 am


    I wanted to say a thank you for flagging up your feelings about my relationship with my friend. It triggered me into expolring my feelings around this and then I realised I wanted to talk to her.

    And I am glad I did.

    I feel happy to know I have been honest with her and everything is in the open. It feels so much better and our friendship is ok. Stronger in fact I think.

    Plus I feel more self esteem and better in myself.

    And it has taken away that ‘exciting, undercover’ feel to whatever it is between he and I.

    Now, whatever it is, it is real and open. And I can date him if I want to.

    And I am definitely not going to push anything. I am just leaning back, being a lovely lil Siren.



  415.  #415SummerBaby on May 11, 2011 at 6:14 am


    I’m glad you spoke with your friend. I feel happy for you with knowing your friendship is in a good space.


  416.  #416DE on May 11, 2011 at 6:15 am

    Mel #408:

    Yes, yes, yes…awesome…Focus on you…your voice is much stronger…I love it!!!!

    Btw…my ex was the same in regards to sex and “punishments”…arghh…

    Warm hugs,

  417.  #417LD on May 11, 2011 at 6:18 am


    So glad you have adopted the “vote with your presence” idea. I have been doing that for a long time and it really helps me to take care of myself. Eleanor Roosevelt once wrote “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” I love this quote because it shows me that how I am treated in MY choice. I can’t change or control anyone else, but I can change or control how I respond to other people.

    I once left a date in a bar and took a cab home after he drove 3 hours to have a date with me. He got drunk and obnoxious and for no reason called me a b*tch. I asked the bartender to call me a cab and he looked at me and said “you won’t leave me here. I drove 3 hours to see you. You’re too polite to leave someone who went out of their way to see you and spent money on a hotel and everything.” I replied “I don’t care if you live next door to me or drove all the way across the country. I don’t deserve to be insulted like that and won’t let ANYONE treat me that way.” I left and he spent the next 3 months trying to make it up to me.

    I also “vote with my presence when it comes to my parents. They have a tendency to put people down and it feels really uncomfortable to go visit them and then be insulted. One day my stepfather called me an “idiot” in front of my kids simply because he disagreed with a decision I made. (which turned out to be the right one anyway) I left and we didn’t go visit for several weeks. My mom called one day and asked why we hadn’t been to visit lately and I told her that it felt bad to be put down-especially in front of my kids-and that I didn’t want to put myself in a situation where I would end up feeling bad. My stepdad ended up calling and apologizing and we started visiting again. Every once in awhile he woud slip up and say something demeaning and we would get up and leave. After awhile it happened less and less. It still happens, but I express my discomfort immediately instead of pretending it’s OK and he realizes it faster and changes the subject.

  418.  #418T-Girl on May 11, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Testing Gravatar

  419.  #419tinque on May 11, 2011 at 7:01 am

    Boomer – Someone may have already responded, but I feel compelled to add my thoughts/feelings. This doesn’t feel good to me, not at all.

    I think your instincts are right on with him. If you enjoy his company, see him again. If his energy and presence feels off, weird, anything that doesn’t feel good, then don’t.

    Explanations are necessarily necessary. If you refuse his invitation and asks why then tell him your bit about wanting a relationship, not a casual whatever this is.


  420.  #420Dorothea on May 11, 2011 at 7:06 am

    T girl, CUTE gravatar!

  421.  #421tinque on May 11, 2011 at 7:09 am

    nanceen – though it’s not last night anymore, if you see this, ask away. if it’s too private for putting here, you are welcome to contact me directly.


  422.  #422T-Girl on May 11, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Thanks Dorothea! I used to love Penelope Pitstop, and she is so feminine! πŸ™‚

  423.  #423Turtle Girl on May 11, 2011 at 8:25 am


    In case anyone here ever doubts what Rori says for a second or doubts yourself when relating to men as far as telling them your true feelings-I just got this in an email from my guy, who was responding to an email I sent to him about some things that were bothering me and look what he writes—

    “You were “feeling it” when you wrote to me and I wasn’t around to talk about it in person, so you poured it out in an email. That’s cool actually, it’s more than cool that you so freely share your feelings. Way more than cool. Good thing for us, for our future of being together through thick and thin.”

    Whoa!!!!! Does that not say it all? Does it not say that men are super attracted to you when you share your feelings and want to hang around you forever?

    I am forever grateful for this RR learning experience here. Wow.

  424.  #424Daria on May 11, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Tinque and others – what do you think is the way to handle a situation in which a man you love says he feels embarrassed with you (because of the way you dress, or because of your ‘status’ ) ?

    In a way it feels bad and I feel sad, and also I’m guessing that is his genuine feeling and feel compassion for him, but also resentment and anger.

  425.  #425Daria on May 11, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Wow LD that is amazing with your stepfather.

    Brava to u girl.

    I am crying right now because that is what I want for myself and I feel sad that so far I have been freezing up and havent done the walk away properly and I feel dissapointed in myself and discouraged that it may take a long and painful time for me to get there.

  426.  #426Daria on May 11, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Ella – I feel so glad and inspired! Yay!

  427.  #427Daria on May 11, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Mel – that is great. Good for you.

  428.  #428Daria on May 11, 2011 at 9:16 am

    I feel angry

    I feel tight in my shoulder

    I feel scared

    I feel sad

    I feel tummy turning

    I feel small and unloved

    I feel helpless

    I feel hot

    Aha thought! ‘I must not be good enough if they dont love me. Feeling embarrased by me means they don’t love me.’

    This is not true baby Nv. Awww I love you so much. I want to give you a hug and make sure you know you are ok. In fact, you are awesome!!! That person is dealing with some of their own nvs and getting run by them and that’s why their behavior and words are like that toward you. And I don’t want you to feel bad so I want you to know it’s safe for you to express how you feel, and walk away.

    I love you and I’m here with you.

  429.  #429Mel on May 11, 2011 at 9:26 am

    I found out that my work offers free confidential counselling with our benefits plan. Since I still haven’t even received my first paycheque, yay for free!

    They have the option to do e-counselling, which is really cool. I just received an email back from the psychologist and she had some great advice.

    If my hubby ever feels like it, they offer free couples counselling (through internet) as well.

    One thing she said to me was “Anxiety and panic are often the result of fears that get stuck in a pattern that becomes like a rut in the road. Your brain may continue to respond to minor stressors in over reactive ways as if you were in danger.”

    So when I over-react to his actions or to uncomfortable situations (like this past weekend), it is because I am fearful. I’m fearful ultimately that the rejection, withdrawl, lack of interest, and anger means that I am losing him, that our marriage will fail, and that I will be left alone. So every time these things happen, I panic. NOT because I am a “f*ucking, stupid, retarded b*tch” but because I am afraid.

    I feel understood. I’m happy to have someone to help me with some anxiety strategies.

  430.  #430Daria on May 11, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I put myself in lots of situations where I feel embarrased of being there with a person… But when I do I shut down and pretend I don’t. I feel excited because this may be important!

    Yeah I thought out of loyalty and common sense I can stick it out.


    I also feel embarrased on my own a lot. Like I get social anxiety when I’m in an unfamiliar group setting.

    Should I not be ‘tolerating’ the feeling of embarrassment when I’m say, going with my oh friend to the soup kitchen? I don’t think it’s that. Cuz even though I feel uncomfortable I also feel love for myself and him and excitement.

    But I don’t have to tolerate embarrassment if a man is being rude to me in public for example.


    Or if say I’m at a fancy restaurant my man decides to take off his shirt. Now I would usually feel embarrased but I may just tolerate it in order to respect him. Maybe Rori would say for me to say: I feel embarrased.

    This is confusing.

    I think the confusion comes from taking care of a man’s feelings.

    Like if a man calls me up and uses an FM that doesn’t feel good to hear, like ‘I feel turned off’. Then I would think like ok buddy, I hear you feel that way and… I don’t want to hear that . That feels bad .

    It’s not what I want to hear from a man. He’s calling to woo Me. That’s not what is gonna work.

    But also, Rori says to hear him out when he’s angry.

    As long as he’s not attacking.

    I feel a bit confused.

    You know I’m feeling kinda angry hearing that you feel embarrased by me. You have a right to your feelings, but that feels bad and I don’t want to hear that’

    ‘but adding “be a man”‘ is not necessary

  431.  #431tinque on May 11, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Daria – That feels awful. I can feel compassion for someone who has a lot of growing still to do, but I feel far more sadness for you and a desire to take you away from a situation like this.

    My first thought was to ask this person why he/she continues to hang around then. You love yourself and how you dress.

    The status part make me feel anger. We are all the same. We all bleed the same. Status is an illusion. I wouldn’t even touch that one if it came up, doesn’t require a response. I would completely ignore it.

    Really all you can say is that hearing that feels bad. And leave.


  432.  #432turquoise3 on May 11, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Nanceen said “turq: when you get out of your car, always think β€œgee I need to put the seat back for my sweetie for when he drives the car”. Make sure you have a double bed at least. buy a large turkey roasting pan. you will be making more food when he is there. Buy two christmast stockings. Put your name on one. Leave the other blank. They will be used someday!”

    Thanks Nanceen! πŸ™‚ I don’t put the seat back in the car, but that is a good one. I do have a huge, amazingly comfortable king size bed…. it’s left over from the marriage, but I adore sleeping in it, so I’m not getting rid of it. Plenty of room for a new sweetie in there. I was married for over 8 years, with him over 10, so I have the big roaster, tons of decorations, all that stuff…. πŸ™‚ Thing is, my girls and I have TOO much stuff. I need to get rid of things, empty part of the closet, empty all the clutter from the office, so my sweetie will have room for some of his things, if he stays. My neighbor kept parking in front of my house, only leaving me one space. I asked them to park in front of their own house, because I need a space for guests. πŸ™‚ I’ve been thinking so much lately that someone WON’T step up and be a serious part of my life, that I haven’t really been thinking about making room…. time to change that πŸ™‚

    Thanks for writing to me!

  433.  #433Daria on May 11, 2011 at 9:42 am

    I feel anxious that if I don’t lean forward and initiate a conversation about this now. (. The conversation being ‘It feelt bad hearing that you feel embarrased with me and overhearing if this morning. That feels bad and I don’t want to hear it anymore. – then running like a madwoman out of there)

    Then I won’t feel brave enough to speak up in the moment if/when that or something similar happens again.

    If the answer is ‘you Should feel bad, you are shameful, blah blah’. Then I can say. This feels awful. I dint want to hear this. And leave.

    Just like Rori teaches that lady in the last part of Toxic Men.

    I feel excited to do this.

    It doesn’t mean I won’t be able to do it in the moment. I will be able to! Babysteps.

    I’m still wondering, if you hear… Some people talking about you and it doesn’t feel good… Do you go up to them and say… ‘that feels bad. I don’t want to hear people talking about me in a way that feels bad’

    Or do you just walk away? Somehow I think just walking away would feel worse than saying something…

    But to say something you’d be initiating? I feel a bit confused here.

    Also walking away is better than continuing to hear it.

    But I don’t want to get out of comfy bed to walk away!!! Waaah.

    Then my body will feel bad.

    Do you get out the car and walk in the rain and cold?

  434.  #434turquoise3 on May 11, 2011 at 9:46 am

    J- I wanted to write last night about how much I enjoyed reading your post, (about your past relationships, and men giving to you). I can relate to part of it. My ex-husband was very generous, even in college I got expensive jewelry, flowers, clothes, and I lived with him for 3 months before starting my teaching job, he paid all the bills. Even now, he still does nice things financially for me, like buying me the dryer.

    One thing I’ve noticed though… I can’t really ask him for what I want, but if I express the need (like you said) he’ll do it. It always has to be in his timeline, I think he feels he’s making the decision, not me asking and him responding, but his choice, and then it’s done. He always comes through for me.

    I dated one guy long term, money was tight for him, but we split everything pretty much 50/50. I did a favor for him, he did one for me… I didn’t like it. This was pre-Rori, and all I can say, I’m really glad I didn’t marry him! We talked about it, but he was used to being with women who pretty much supported him, and that was what he was looking for. That felt lousy!

    In today’s economy, it’s often hard to not have two incomes, and I plan to continue to work even if I remarry, because there are things I want to do, places I want to go, and if my income can help us get there, I’m happy to give. I would never want to be the sole providor though. I don’t make a ton, but it feels so good to earn a paycheck after being a stay home mom for so long. I love that when I want to buy something, I think about how many hours I have to work to pay for it, and make my decision based on that. I”m a lot better with money now, that I’m on a budget, and earning it. I feel more grown up and responsible. πŸ™‚

    Now… maybe if I express the need to the universe that I really need a new car, one will show up! πŸ™‚ The payments aren’t in the budget right now, but once I get my credit card paid off, would be very managable. πŸ™‚

  435.  #435Daria on May 11, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Tinque – there’s a lot of people who judge on ‘status’

    Some examples that come to mind ‘spelling’. ‘men w fish’.

    ‘prostitute attire at a presidential ball’. Etc etc


    ‘vulgar language’


    And thank you for saying that. I feel a bit reaffirmed.

    I feel a pull to go and start a convo about this, but I also would like to just be with my feelings of excitement until next time in the moment.

    But what if I freeze and don’t do anything!!! I feel so frustrated with myself!!! I am Not feeling compassion for my freezing self. I’m like ack Daria you let me down again you stupid freezing mess! I associate my freezing with cowardice. I so want to heal this!!! Angels please!

    I love my freezing in humiliating circumstances. I love how I play out extreme scenarios like that I wouldn’t protect my kids well because of freezingness. I love me.

  436.  #436turquoise3 on May 11, 2011 at 9:51 am

    I feel really good sirens. I haven’t dieted in a long time, but am really motivated right now. I’m on sparkpeople, counting my calories, drinking my water, taking vitamins, and starting to exercise. It’s only been a few days, but I feel so good and strong and motivated. I’d like to lose at least 25 pounds, hopefully 40. I’m short, 5 pounds is a big deal on me… and I want to be healthier, feel better about myself, and feel comfortable and sexy in anything I’m wearing. Being on this blog makes me feel like I’m actually getting somewhere, I’m putting what I’m learning into use, I feel I’m growing, I’m sharing info. with anyone who will listen… and I’m learning my boundaries. I really wanted to interject into the conversation with Daria and Lucy. I really had to restrain myself. I like to make peace, try to solve everyone’s problems… and it really doesn’t get me anywhere. They worked it out, I observed the process, and loved it! πŸ™‚

    Last night I bought a pair of shapeups. Anyone have them? Like them, hate them???

  437.  #437Mel on May 11, 2011 at 9:51 am

    That sucks Daria! Him feeling embarassed to be around you is all his “stuff” that the is choosing to dump onto you.

    If it matters so much to him what your “status” is, or how you are dressed, it means that he’s not confident enough in himself.

    Ouch. I’m sorry he doesn’t see how great you are!

  438.  #438tinque on May 11, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Yes Daria, this sounds great.


  439.  #439Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:04 am

    I feel excited for me to Not feel triggered when someone experiences something differently than me. I feel less self doubtful. Less nvs like oh maybe I’m doing this ‘wrong’

    Like when turquoise says:

    ” I love that when I want to buy something, I think about how many hours I have to work to pay for it, and make my decision based on that… I feel grown up and responsible”

    And for me, that’s exactly opposite of what I want. I feel awful and limited when I want to buy something and I find myself thinking of how many hours I have to work to pay for it.

    It feels like being constrained and like I’m limiting my chances of ever changing how much money I would make or how much I receive.

    I actually feel sad and angry to think I live in a world that works that way. (as opposed to freedom and abundance and having all my desires provided for by nature and spirit)

    And yet I ‘get’ the feeling of responsibility of adding all the numbers up neatly. It’s like winning at monopoly, and it feels good and competent and responsible.

    I wonder what this means for me? Maybe Id enjoy both.

    Living in a world that provides for my needs and desires magically – which is pretty much how I live now…

    And playing a fun numbers game where I feel successful and competent and responsible (without feeling trapped or dependent on the game for my happiness)


    I am actually really good at numbers games like dominoes and I might have fun doing commodity trading.

  440.  #440tinque on May 11, 2011 at 10:05 am

    So what if you freeze. There will likely be a next time.

    I find that walking away is a good thing, BUT if whatever happens continues to eat at you, then it needs to come out, so yes initiating a conversation is called for.

    And it isn’t that you’re leaning forward. You are asking for a heart-to-heart. You are taking care of you. The conversation isn’t about resolving anything unless you consider releasing a hurt as resolution.

    What the other person does or does not say isn’t important. Voicing your truth is.


  441.  #441Femininewoman on May 11, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Love it Mel

  442.  #442Prairie Girl on May 11, 2011 at 10:07 am

    I’ve been “off planet” for a while but I’ve been thinking of you all!

    Someone shared this song with me and I thought it might make some of you feel good….

    “I got here as fast as I could” by Josh Turner…
    Angels on your bodies..

  443.  #443Femininewoman on May 11, 2011 at 10:09 am

    RE 442 Good to see you again PG.

  444.  #444Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Turquoise sorry if I’m triggering you. I do feel a touch of judgement coming from my side, and I want to tell you that that is My stuff and has nothing to do with you. I am doing much better with mot judging myself and therefore others, and theres more practice for me still.

    You are great.

    I feel a bit distant and afraid of my ‘image’ of you. And I think that’s important. I think my perception of you is a reflection of a part of you that I often ignore and push to the side and judge, because I feel afraid of her.

    I feel afraid I will feel stifled or embarrased and not accepted to be seen as ‘responsible and normal’. When I’m so attached to my ‘rebel dramatic in your face shocking’ identity.

    This is important for me to discover. I’m feeling fascinated.

    And I feel afraid I’m triggering you even worse now and want again to reiterate that this is My stuff.., my archetypes and projections about myself and not to do w u.

    Thank you for being here and setting off this self exploration for me.

    And bearing w me while I say potentially stuff that may be taken personally by you when really it’s all about me.

    Please don’t read if it makes you feel bad.

    Babystepping here

  445.  #445Tmizz on May 11, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Hi Boomer – I started typing this out yesterday, but then got called away to do some other things.

    Mainly, I think, with BisonMan (I love the name!), I am trusting my instincts. And I think, for me, the positive and respectful response I got from him reflects the positive way in which I respected MYSELF by acknowledging, without dragging things out, that I just didn’t think it was going to work for me. I think some guys – especially good guys – value and appreciate when woman tells them up front that it’s not going to work out. It saves you both a lot of time and trouble.

    I appreciate that we should work on welcoming men into our lives that will love us. But to me, this can’t be the only reason. In the past, I have done just this – accepted a man simply because I could see that he would love me. But it wasn’t enough for me, because the feeling wasn’t mutual. In the end, I just feel bad and depleted by that, and I end up overcompensating for the fact that I just don’t have any real feelings for him.

    Plus, on top of that, being able to say to someone, “Hey, I think you are a great guy, thanks for all you did for me, but it’s just not going to work out for me” gives me a HUGE sense of power. And I’m not talking about fake power – like the power over someone to “control” them or manipulate how they feel – the real kind. The kind that is your personal power. The power that you have to make your own decisions. I make this. This is my power to choose. I respect my feeling, my intuition, and I feel rewarded by that. Having “a guy” isn’t a reward. Being and feeling awesome with myself is. And that’s when I think the truly amazing guys show up. πŸ™‚

  446.  #446Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Whoa actual impt typo! *. I think my perception of you is a reflection of a part of ME that I push away. Not a part of You.

  447.  #447Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:18 am

    I feel afraid that ‘no one will like me’ if I’m square and prim and proper.

    This reminds me of when I was the teachers pet when I was younger and I got made fun of, and felt like I had no friends.

  448.  #448Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Tinque – thank you.

    What I feel concerned with is creating a pattern where I after the fact start heart to hearts about how I feel bad.

    It seems like that wouldn’t create a desire for people to engage in them ‘what complaint does she have now :eyeroll:

    Maybe that’s an Nv. Maybe they’d love after the fact talks about my ‘negative’ feelings and don’t wants.


    I mean, one of the things we practice is Not chasing after the man with our anxieties.

    Like if he’s not calling to call him up and say. ‘I feel bad’

    What do u think?

  449.  #449Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Thanks Mel! I’m feeling really excited by this and I super relate to your situation bec I’m practicing similarly (w my dad).

    All your Babysteps inspire me.

    So excited for when speaking up and walking away feels natural and easy.

  450.  #450Dorothea on May 11, 2011 at 10:29 am

    hello:) i still havent responded to his last text. i really do need space and texting him doesnt feel like much space. but i did ask him his suggestion, and he told me, although it was pretty confusing to me, and i suppose i SHOULD respond?

    i feel confused

  451.  #451tinque on May 11, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Daria- Does it matter if this becomes a pattern? Do patterns persist throughout your life? And if it does, there will be someone, many someones who will love this about you.

    You can’t control how someone will react or feel in any situation, so how about being true to your heart in that moment? Whether it’s after the fact or right then and there.


  452.  #452Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Tmizz – have you looked at circular dating as therapy?

    That’s the premise that when accepting the company of a man (even one that you know you don’t want to marry) is a great gift for you and him to practice relating and communicating skills so that you both grow and have the skills to then take to the relationships you Will have.

    I do this and it feels great! it took a lot of Babysteps to feel worthy and convince myself that I am a gift to a man, even if I don’t ultimately marry him or even choose to move past a certain point of intimacy w him. That was a great ‘achievement’ in itself, to start seeing how my presence Now, not just promise of future, or closeness, is a great gift for a man.

    Then I started attracting men who said stuff like… I don’t care if you never have sex w me and just decide to be like my sister. I just love spending time w u! And meanwhile I get to practice my tools and get better at them, while healing this man too.

  453.  #453Boomer on May 11, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Tmizz. I get it πŸ™‚ I think my question to you was perhaps more self-exploratory than necessarily about you. I certainly was not trying to tell you to see him again. I think I was wondering out loud about my own plan to see IndyGuy again. Two months ago, I would have said the same thing to him you said to BisonMan: you’re awful sweet, but not for me, so thanks and good luck!

    Right now, I guess it feels right to give him another chance based on Rori’s recent suggestion to attempt to focus on something other than chemistry. Perhaps it’s my babystep for now.

    I’m so glad you found peace about the way you handled BisonMan. Maybe I’ll feel the same after this weekend with IndyGuy.

  454.  #454Lilybelle on May 11, 2011 at 10:41 am

    413: Ella,

    I am happy that you talked to your friend before things went to far with your guy. This was a very triggering subject for me and I feel happy it was resolved without any hurt feelings.


  455.  #455Daria on May 11, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Tinque – ack I’m triggers thinking about how I’ve done it ‘wrong’ in the past.

    And reinforced a pattern.

    And yeah they persist forever.

    Except that I can change them. W scary work.

    I hate being scared.

    Probably cuz I love being scared.

    I’m lost in a trigger land.

    Thank you for the reassurances that someone would love that. But wtf.

    I don’t love that this person says that kinda stuff.

    So why would someone love stuff about me that doesn’t feel good.