Some Basic Dating Tips…

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intimacyIf you’re dating, practice being absolutely authentic from the moment you first speak.

This means listening, not trying to control your anxiety by talking so much, actually tolerating anxiety until you get used to the feeling of connecting with someone, and speaking in feeling terms.

Talk about how you feel about things – the food, the restaurant, the weather, your job, your dog – rather than stating the facts – or your opinions about them.

Instead of saying this is a nice restaurant – say how it makes you feel to be there – how the lighting affects you, how that waiters affect you, how the food tastes.

It will let you see very quickly what kind of man is sitting in front of you.

Don’t become exclusively involved with anyone (aside from sexually – and even then, it’s up to you…) until you’re very comfortable that you have these important things:

His emotional, time and energy investment in you – meaning you see him several times a week, talk to him every day, and know (from him) that the road to a future together is laid out.

That way, you Circular Date to the last second.

If you’re down “the road” with someone, and are having a rough go of it – yet feel as though you’ve invested time, love and energy and want to see it thru – do the most important thing: Stay with your feelings.

The most important feeling to locate is to see how you feel about yourself when you’re in the presence of this other person…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 11:14 am

    Yum. I feel happy and my body is doing a shimmy reading this article.

  2.  #2April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 11:31 am


    I would like to request some clarification please.

    When you say “The most important feeling to locate is to see how you feel about yourself when you’re in the presence of this other person…”

    Is that the same as how you feel *in* yourself in the man’s presence?

    If I ask myself how I feel *about* myself I find myself detaching and going into thoughts.

  3.  #3April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 11:38 am

    If I feel excited in myself (in a man’s presence), then I suspect chemistry is operating. My energy feels like it is moving away from me. And, my mind feels busy and loud.

    If I feel calm in myself and centred in his company, I feel more at ease and present, and my energy is gathered and contained in my siren body. My mind feels quiet or even silent. That is the best feeling of all.

  4.  #4April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 11:41 am

    Gosh, how punctuation (or lack of) can change the meaning of a phrase.

    “If I feel calm in myself and centred, in his company,….”

    is what I meant!!

  5.  #5Labbit on July 11, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    This is all great stuff. It’s so funny, I am very rarely anxious on a first date. I’m relaxed, myself, a goddess through and through. Once I realize I like the guy…well, that’s where my work is these days. 🙂

    I was feeling down earlier this week. My energy was collapsing in on me and I felt scared, anxious, unsure. It was hard to sink in and fully feel those feelings — I wanted them to go away! By being with them they have passed and now I’m feeling much happier again.

    It’s so hard to go against the grain of my nature! Circular Dating has been great for this. I see the ways I control or chase without meaning to. Now that I can recognize being triggered (and that’s all in me versus caused by a man as I thought previously) I see more choices in how I behave. This week when I was feeling anxious I was so tempted to fall into my old habits of calling an ex, or pining after a lost love, or trying to push a CD relationship forward. Just being was very hard for me!

    I feel so much calmer now. Trying it out proved that I can do it! Today I’ve gotten texts and calls from CDs looking to make weekend plans and next week plans — it’s great! Leaning back and being warm does work…who would’ve thought?! That gives me more confidence moving forward.

  6.  #6iris on July 11, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    #2 & #3 @ April Rose,
    Great differentiation. Sometimes I feel confused by chemistry and intimacy.

    Sometimes I feel uncomfortable and very much in my head when I’m around my boyfriend. I am slowly realizing that the anxiety is from my own fear of intimacy.

  7.  #7Labbit on July 11, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    One more quick experience to share: I have one CD who triggers me a lot with his texts. He’ll drop off in the middle of conversations and his last message will seem very vague or like he’s upset. In the past when this has happened I’ve chased after him, asking him what he means or if something’s wrong or what the eff is going on!??

    This week I just let it be. On Weds his last message…so weird. I felt like he was mad at me. I felt my heart pound, my chest seize, my head tighten. I lived with the anxiety all afternoon and then didn’t hear from him that night. At that point I realized the anxiety was getting me nowhere so I tried to look at the bigger picture. How he sometimes said these funny things without intending to upset me. How it was my choice to decide this message was “bad” or assign meaning to it. I chose trust. I chose to be calm. I chose love. I chose to love myself. It was not easy and the Nasty Voices were right there in every moment. On Thursday he sent me the rest of his message and it was incredibly sweet! I was happy I hadn’t chased and that I’d chosen trust. I got such a sweet surprise in return.

  8.  #8Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    Labbitt #6&7
    I feel sparkly, warm, dancing breezes reading your posts….
    This is all very exciting for me to read…

    even thought my pattern was to NOT trust…
    “I chose trust. I chose to be calm. I chose love. I chose to love myself.”
    Powerful Siren!!!

  9.  #9Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Love, Love this….
    “I see MORE choices in how I behave!!!”

  10.  #10Helena Hart on July 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    April Rose – 3 – I love this: “If I feel calm in myself and centred in his company, I feel more at ease and present, and my energy is gathered and contained in my siren body. My mind feels quiet or even silent. That is the best feeling of all.” That’s so beautiful!!

    Labbit – 7 – This is great! Your post reminded me that the perception and meaning we assign to things can so often be “off” – and it’s often a reflection of how we’re feeling about ourselves in that moment. I like that you decided to “choose love” and choose to love yourself here.

    Love, Helena

  11.  #11Kim on July 11, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Azure Blu, from previous post.lovely at the beach! Saw one of my neighbours who is so cute but very shy. We are both shy, so we always just wave and smile…lol.
    Nothing from wild child.
    If I do hear something now, 4pm (let’s talk in the morning), I doubt I would even feel like answering…
    All a bit odd, but ok.
    No questions.

  12.  #12April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    Azur Blu and Kim,

    When a man doesn’t call or turn up when he said he would, this is a GREAT time to practice making it all about your feelings.

    I would prepare a script (gosh, I can’t think where I saw one for this exact scenario recently – I think it may have been on one of Cherry Norris’s videos)

    Let me see if I can find it.
    The essence was all about conveying your vulnerability, in a way that is real for you, without letting him off the hook and without making him wrong.

    It is too easy to shrug it off and say “I don’t care”. Only first be sure that is the authentic truth.

  13.  #13April Rose on July 11, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    I just noticed he said “lets talk in the morning”, not “I’ll call you in the morning”.

    My sense is that he knows he has not behaved very well.
    He may be expecting some kind of telling off, or may be avoiding hearing your disappointment in him.

  14.  #14Violette on July 11, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    S is there for me. Totally available, all open and ready for intimacy. And I more and more hate the way he touches me. It feels icky, like he doesn’t know what he’s doing, it’s hard, repetitive, no finesse. And I keep letting it go further in case it gets easier, to get through the fear around it.

    I feel so afraid of being clumsily made love to. Of having sex with a man who has pleasure when I don’t have pleasure. Of it being good for him but not for me, and worst of all, of feeling like I have to lie about it, tell him it’s good.

    He called today about tomorrow night’s plans( he always plans things in advance), and told me he couldn’t wait to see me, and I had to lie, and say me too. When the truth is I’m dreading it.

    I can’t break up with him. I feel too attached to him to break up with him.

    I feel cursed, that every good man who comes into my life and wants me totally, and treats me wonderfully, will gross me out sexually. It happened last year, the year before…

    Before that it never used to happen. Every man I was ever with was amazing in bed. What’s happened to me?

    I feel so sad and trapped.

  15.  #15Kim on July 11, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    April Rose you are so right.
    Except I don’t actually care anymore (much). The one thing he had going for him was his keeping in constant contact and being attentive. And being keen to see me all the time. Now that’s gone, and I have not at all changed anything, been warm and happy when he came forward.
    So I have no real desire to even answer him, if he did contact me now. He hasn’t. It’s Friday night. I planned out my whole weekend without him.
    Unsure as to what the conversation would be about.
    Honestly, I feel kind of done here already.
    Yes, he does know because he apologised for being ‘distant’ yesterday. Now he’s gone.
    Not my place to speculate, perhaps he lost attraction, whatever. Feels bad and has been only early days.
    I feel quite good letting this go completely….unless he runs in my door.

  16.  #16Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    April Rose #12…
    I sooo agree… What a wonderful time to practice my feeling messages!!!

    And I DID…
    Sweetly and softly shared that I feel disconnected and confused when he mentioned he would call and i didn’t hear from him…
    What did he think?
    This conversation happened a few times with KS…
    He would say “Well, the phone works both ways”
    Then I said “I apologize… Maybe I didn’t understand the rhythm of how he liked to stay connected…”
    Immediately he switched and apologized and said he would make sure he called when he said he would…
    Every thing was really good for 3 months… then he started pulling away, not calling when he said he would… I used feeling messages… and then he disappeared for 5 weeks… He tried to come back but I could see the writing on the wall…
    Me: ” I feel heartbroken and I cried when we didn’t talk or see each other for 5 weeks.”
    I want a warm, connected relationship…”
    I don’t want to date you anymore.

  17.  #17Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    Violette #14…
    Mmmmm… very much how I have felt the last few CDs I’ve gotten close to…

    It seems like if I don’t feel that rushing, pounding, hot chemistry I can’t seem to get to the sexual part???

    I’m not sure what is going on either??
    Sirens,,, any ideas, helpful hints?

  18.  #18Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Lovely Sirens,
    I’d be interested in hearing what feeling messages others have used after not hearing from a CD when they said they would call?

  19.  #19Kim on July 11, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    Ah, you see Azure Blu, this is the gripe I have with feeling messages. I found sometimes they work ‘too well’, and actually keep the wrong men around for too long. MrP responded beautifully to them, but it didn’t mean he could do relationship.
    Now, I prefer not to educate men, but to date someone who already has the want and need to be connected with his lady and to move things forward.
    They exist. Then I am happy to express myself in feeling messages. Too often I used to say them with a view to a result, and I don’t want to do that anymore.
    I got to the point where it hardly matters whether a man comes or goes and what he does or doesn’t do…if I don’t feel he is invested and consistent, I lose interest almost instantly.
    It feels cold hearted, but I have given multiple chances to men I felt ‘into’, and it never worked out. I guess it is a learning curve.

  20.  #20Kim on July 11, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    I would say: nice to hear from you. I feel a little disappointed that we did not speak earlier.

    Not the most skillful lol.

    In my case right now, I don’t even know if I want to say anything at all.

  21.  #21Violette on July 11, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Azure Blue thanks for your comment.

  22.  #22Violette on July 11, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    I don’t truly believe I’m unattracted to him because I’m afraid of intimacy, I believe it’s because he’s not that smooth of a lover. I could be wrong but I believe it’s technical. The hard part for me is to…stay authentic in that without being hurtful to him.

    I feel like these situations have come into my life these last few years because…on some level I believed my one chance at having both intimacy and attraction was gone, with an ex, and on some unconscious level I’ve been attracting men who validate that self-judgment.

    Of course I don’t really believe it, who knows where that voice in my head came from? And I don’t believe S is the last stop for me. But I do feel that he is teaching me something, about relating, about connection, and that I’ve invited him into my life because it’s something I need to learn.

    So my challenge here is to, enjoy him. To let him in. To sit with my discomfort. To communicate with him. God I hate communicating with him about how to please me, but…that’s what this relationship calls for. I am learning about myself, and I am growing. It’s not forever, and I can be thankful for having him in my life for now. Because he’s really here. And I’ll take it, for now.

  23.  #23Violette on July 11, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    He wants to be closer to me, and I can’t even articulate how annoying I find it. The ways he tries to get closer…because it makes me feel like he can’t just be with me, like he wants more, like I’m not enough. But it’s more than that, it pushes some kind of an old button, about not wanting to explain myself, about having a right to my secrets, about being accepted as is, about feeling I have to prove myself to get someone’s love, and that isn’t about this relationship, it’s just about me.

  24.  #24Violette on July 11, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    I can already feel the ways this is making me grow, whew.

  25.  #25Violette on July 11, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Also I do have a lot of secrets right now, because I’m not in a place I want to be, in my career, in my money, in my friendships and lifestyle. I have a great deal of fear around it, and it’s private. I don’t want to show that to anyone. I want to quietly go about the work of getting those parts of my life in order, and…it’s none of his business, and I feel a pressure to explain it all to him. He’s in such a different line of work, he could never understand so many of this about me. Men I’ve been with who are in my line of work, they didn’t need me to explain it, they get that it’s not a clear set plan, that I figure it out as I go along. And it does feel difficult that I feel I have so much to explain about myself to S. I don’t want to. I want him to just get it! To figure it out on his own. Very annoying.

  26.  #26Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Yes… I know what you mean about FM keeping the wrong men around for too long…
    I had wanted to simply let him disappear and ignore him if he came back…

    However FeminineWoman suggested I might practice sharing my feelings about what happened…
    She was soooo right!!

    I am really good at keeping my feelings all SMUGLY bottled up…

    this is something I want/need to break to be able to move forward in being able to do emotional intimacy with a man…

    Sooo in spite of feeling extreme high anxiety after
    him going back and forth with making a time to talk…
    I hung in there
    and shared my appreciation for all the goodness I had found in our relationship
    listened in complete SURPRISE (remember 5 weeks had gone by, saying he was busy with golf and helping his Dad!!!)
    as he shared how MUCH he liked me and what we had together etc, etc… and wanting to continue to date (and him wanting to change some of his behavior)
    But after a couple of days of me thinking about how self centered he is,
    how $$ was sooo important to him,
    how poorly he treated friends and family…
    I knew, after all was said and done, this man had way too much work to do on himself.

    BUT I am still soooo happy I broke through a big barrier I tend to erect
    and was able to be authentic and brave and vulnerable,
    NOT looking for any specific outcome…
    during a high intensity situation
    AND be surprised…
    AND listen to him, with my heart unzipped
    (just writing about it I am feeling VERY proud of ME)

  27.  #27Kim on July 11, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    Aw Azure Blu, I do understand and it really is something to be proud of!! 🙂

  28.  #28Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Kim #20…
    Sooo as FemininWoman encouraged me
    for MY sake…

    I would encourage you to use That authentic, feeling message…
    I would encourage you to do a “sandwich”
    share what you do like about him…
    Express your “I feel disappointed I didn’t hear from you”
    and then
    “What do you think?”

  29.  #29Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Mmmmm…. thank you sooo much!!

  30.  #30Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    Violette #25,,,
    I can’t believe how much alike our situations are…

    Same thing with me and my last cd… MN…
    I kept trying to share with him more of what I was feeling and what I wanted… but it did annoy me that he couldn’t seem naive about moving the relationship forward romantically and i KNOW he tried…

    He was nice, kind, available BUT I would feel sooo annoyed and I couldn’t get to why…
    except mine had such a draining personality…
    I need more lighthearted funny..

  31.  #31Kim on July 11, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Well, he has poofed right now. Maybe if I feel less disappointed. Who knows what happened, maybe there was still another woman in the game. Remember he untagged himself from the photo a friend posted of the two of us and always hid his phone. That alone felt weird to me.
    His loss, and I really feel that way.
    I agree. I have nothing to lose to tell him the authentic truth.
    However, I have already decided that I am not available as I was to him. No intimacy unless there is consistency and commitment and decent dates, no just ‘calling’ with friends.
    No hanging out or dropping in from the grocery store.
    No me cooking and pre-preparing food and him changing plans last minute. Nope.

    Honestly, and truthfully, with all my heart I believe a man who pulls back like this is not for me anyway.
    I get insecure. I need a stable guy.
    So. It’s all academic.

    But yeah, it’s true. I can practice if he comes back.

  32.  #32Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    but i’m sure it was a button a trigger…
    Maybe I can figure it out without him being around?

    Not sure…
    In my situation… My finances are too unstable to enjoy anything right now… :-/
    so it feels good NOT to date…

  33.  #33Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Kim #31
    Yeah… I see your point… too soon in the dating cycle to act like this!!!

  34.  #34Azure Blu on July 11, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    I meant “for him to act like this”

  35.  #35Kim on July 11, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    Yes AzureBlu, right. It feels weird, especially as he has always been in contact, all the time. And suddenly crickets. Makes no sense. I am sure there is more to it. I don’t care, all I care about is that he was coming on strong and then poofed. And that would make it near impossible to trust him in the future anyway.
    We’ll speak in the morning is what it says. Not three days later. To me, it feels good when words and actions match up.

  36.  #36Kim on July 11, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Almost been a month, 14th June since I met him. He never let a day go by without contact. Not even half a day.

  37.  #37Dominique on July 11, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    Labbit – 7 – SO awesome. xxoo

  38.  #38Dominique on July 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm

    Azure Blu – 17 – Maybe this will help.


  39.  #39Kim on July 11, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    What is making me more sad than anything else is that I have come to accept the poof or the slow fade as a totally normal thing to be expected. Before I moved here, I had never experienced it. And now it’s just a shoulder shrug and an ‘oh well’. That is sad. Not the poofing itself but the blase attitude I have, like there is no worth in being told anything, because that poofing is always a strong possibility.
    Oh well. Shoulder shrug.
    I feel callous and cold, like stone.

  40.  #40Kim on July 11, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    I guess I mourn my innocence. My lightheartedness. My playful, positive side, my knowing that all will turn out well.
    Instead I feel always abandoned, dropped and discarded by men. It has almost become a self fulfilling prophecy. And I feel tired of dating and getting to know new people. I guess Zi feel despondent and hopeless. I am ok alone, and it’s not a bad existence. Everytime I stick my head out of my shell, and stay open, I get whacked. 6 years of dating. Kinda tired. I had three long term relationships that actually worked ok. What changed. I did not. Internet came, facebook came, friends with benefits came. That’s what changed.

  41.  #41Kim on July 11, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    He just called and left a voice message that he had a long week and is running to the grocery store now and wanted to call rather than text.
    I am watching a movie..
    I feel upset and pissed at how today went, so it’s best I don’t call or text back.

  42.  #42Kim on July 11, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    More bizarrly. I now had a text telling me he has been furniture shopping (either with the neighbour lady or his friends, not sure), and is thinking about what to do for the football on Sunday.
    So to summarize, the only time I had slare this weekend was tonight, and he made no plans.
    Now he wants to make plans for Sunday when I told him I am watching the game with someone else?
    I don’t even think it is possible to have a decent answer for this amount of bullshit. Not even a feeling message. Nobody is *that* clueless.

  43.  #43Liquid Light on July 11, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    I have a lunch date next week with someone that I went on a few dates with a few months ago. I think our last date was in April! He’s been staying in touch off and on through text, and he sends me stuff about his golfing achievements. Like I won this thing last weekend. And he sent me a photo of him on a boat with his shirt off in bathing suit looking cute. But that was it until he asked me out for lunch. Its kinda funny, not sure what to make of it. The last date we had was a bit of a disaster – we ended up at a sports bar and some drunken college student crashed into our table sending our drinks/food everywhere, then we ended up in a really rowdy neighborhood and had a few drinks. He cursed like a sailor which I hated. And it was like being out in a giant frat party the whole night, drunken loud 20 somethings everywhere. By the end of the date, I was so disgusted and annoyed, I couldn’t wait to get out of there. So I guess I figured that was that. He’s a good man though with a good heart, very smart with a great job, but I’m not sure if he’s just too much of a partier for me. I really don’t know if I can handle him. Thoughts, ladies?

  44.  #44Kim on July 11, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    Liquid Light, I would give it another shot and see how that date goes. If it is a disaster then: next! 😉

  45.  #45Kim on July 11, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    So I just answered that I had made plans for the weekend and felt a little disappointed at the lack of communication.

    I didn’t get a response because I know he is miffed.

    Truly though, he lives two miles away from me. If he wanted to make a date, or whatever, it isn’t that hard. He chose to spemd the night with friends and never even contacting me until almost 10pm. So, why would he be miffed at me planning my weekend?

    College kid stuff. Blah

  46.  #46Veronica on July 11, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    I had a moment when I realised I was feeling panic/nervous that FunnyCD might poof – I felt the energy shift a bit. Then I leaned back, felt it all, the panic and the ‘oh no there are other people in the picture’ and all those not good enough feelings came up – but I was just feeling them and going through them, not really getting to feeling dismayed about those feelings – more like oh I notice this feeling, and here are these feelings. I’m so proud of myself for actively stepping back and feeling into what was going on with me, not reacting, just feeling. That alone improved my mood. Then the conversation with FunnyCD continued at its own pace. I’m slowly sharing fm’s with him as I feel safe. I feel afraid when sharing fm’s that a man will overwhelm me with affection and attention and I’m not ready to receive. I can’t really hide my reactions and so it will be pretty noticeable which has me feeling exposed. One time a CD said he noticed I winced when he said he could give me a hug : (

    I do like how FunnyCD catches what I say and returns – I think what I like is that he’s his own man, not trying to like the same things I like – if it makes any sense, I don’t respond well when a man is trying to make me like him by liking what I like. FunnyCD catches and returns with something of himself – that seems like more of a conversation exploring each other, not ticking boxes. I feel like I can have the space to sink into me. Room to breathe.
    (I do think it’s quite beautiful that men attach what I like to themselves, it’s the way it’s done that seems to elicit different responses from me.)

    So far this has been quite intriguing.

    Oh and now there are significantly older men visiting my profile – ha ha I do have to be specific with my desires – I like slightly older than me men.

  47.  #47Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 12:21 am

    Spohie #316 – from last post…
    I feel a calm in you when you shared that you were feeling more open…
    This new cd sounds lovely… AND gorgeous…
    Eye candy is ALWAYS good!!

  48.  #48sequoia on July 12, 2014 at 4:37 am

    I had sex with my CD and it felt great. Afterwards he asked if I do see anyone else and I told him that there is someone I see sometimes but he lives abroad. When I asked him he said he doesn’t have sex with anyone but sees his ex-girlfriend to cuddle sometimes!!

    My alarm went off big time and I couldn’t hide that I felt triggert as it seemed so similar to how my ex spoke about his ex. I went into a little triggered rant about my ex and said maybe we shouldn’t see each other again until he has released his ex completely.

    But than after thinking about it I said that he can do what he wants really as I am dating other men as well.
    It felt strange to talk about it and I wish i could have been more composed and spoken more in feeling messages and not shared to many details out of anxiety.
    I told him that I learned from my past connection, which was an illusionary relationship and that I won’t allow myself to enter into any of this again and therefor will keep dating until a true love relationship manifests into my life. He didn’t feel to bothered about it and maybe it was a bit premature that I expressed this.
    So when I left I had a strange feeling , and his good-bye kiss and how we said good-bye was very casuel. He texted me that it was amazing before I came home which felt good , but he didn’t text me this morning and
    I reached out to him (was a mistake)
    and he texted me back and also wished me a good weekend , which I interpreted in a negative way.(him not texting or calling me for the weekend – which might just be my interpretation and not true at all?)
    It would have felt so good if he would have called esp. after what we shared yesterday.

    The ex thing triggers me a lot and I know if it continues with him I need to be very strong and keep dating other men.

    I also feel guilty being on a dating site and I feel paranoid and think that he could see me there – crazy.

    I feel in a mess of feelings at the moment, afraid that I will fall for him as it felt so good with him and that he just wants to see me when ever it suits him, afraid that I will mess things up if I keep dating and maybe at some point feel tempted to have sex with another man and than would need to tell him and he might not be able to handle that at all.
    I don’t want to feel to attached to him and I want to channel my obsessive tendencies into something else and feel my anxiety.

    I definitely don’t want to lean forward again and text him…It’s so difficult sometimes. A voice comes up into my head and gives me this urge to sent a little text and I get all excited and sent it and then I feel not good about sending it at all.

  49.  #49Kim on July 12, 2014 at 4:55 am

    Update: he wrote me this big long thing about how he got so busy with work that he can only make last minute plans, that he doesn’t want to get too close because of my situation (I might have to leave by end of summer), and bla bla bla.
    A lot of volume, all it says is:
    Not that much into you

    I feel kind of deceived because of all the talk of meeting the parents, telling his friends we could all move together bla bla and now this? After sex?

    So he is not feeling it for me, well he didn’t beed to write a book, I knew that already by now.


  50.  #50Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 6:04 am

    sequoia #48…
    Wow… this feels sooo good to read…
    That you shared your feelings with this guy
    right away, as you were feeling them…
    how brave, authentic and vulnerable…
    You, setting YOUR boundaries…
    I have found when I do this
    I begin to trust MYSELF more
    and MY self LOVE grows and grows!!!

    I believe…
    What you will discover is IF he can let go of his ex…
    Which is exactly what you NEVER want to get involved with again…

    That might be why he has pulled away… He may not want to let go of his ex…

    You mentioned you thought it might be too soon to share that you are looking for a man who can do forever relationship…
    For me…
    I mention this BEFORE sex and before we get too close emotionally (as I become VERY vulnerable when I have sex) and ask them what they are wanting…

    Sharing my dreams with my CDs weeds out the guys who are only wanting sex or casual dating…
    It works out soooo well for me….

  51.  #51Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 6:19 am

    this is for me
    and I know everyone has what works for them…

    I share with a man
    that I need to be exclusive BEFORE we have sex… these boundaries, I have learned,
    protect my warm, soft, gentle loving heart.

    that mess of feelings and high anxiety
    comes up after I have set boundaries
    because I’m not used to ME taking up
    for ME!! (but getting better and better as I practice)

    I feel you are doing great dating others
    AND leaning back!
    Yay Sequoia

  52.  #52Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Mmmmm… I am very surprised at his reaction…
    He was sooo enthusiastic…

    Did you ever share what you are looking for and ask him what he was looking for in a relationship?

  53.  #53Kim on July 12, 2014 at 6:33 am

    52 Azure Blu, yeah, I am very surprised.
    Actually, I try to keep calm but inside I do feel betrayed. He was saying that he was looking for a partner for the rest of his life.
    I never make a secret that I am looking for a partner and not a hook-up, but perhaps I should have said that again. Who knows. He knew already that I was not interested in casual dating/friends with benefits, which he said attracted him to me…and this is what he told his friends even.
    It feels like I was punished for having sex with him, kind of odd.
    I sensed he wasn’t ‘finished’ yet, he is still on his work mission and everything else, but what he wrote to me were just excuses, really, and ‘not knowing whether he wanted to get close to me out of self protection’, well before we had sex he never seemed to worry about any of that. He said he had ‘plenty of time’ as he didn’t have a day job. now 360 degree turn. His friends also told me to watch he always blows his work stuff out of proportion…lol.
    I will try to copy paste what he wrote to me so you can see why I feel betrayed.
    It is hard to actually not feel somewhat deceived, but I guess people change their minds.
    It is allowed to change one’s mind.
    I do think there was a lot of gushing and it really made me feel he was all in, but I guess he felt after sex things either go towards relationship or not, and decided he didn’t want that. With me.
    Fair enough.

  54.  #54Kim on July 12, 2014 at 6:36 am

    Sequoia, holy moly.
    Don’t pay attention to what I will say..LOL.
    I would have ran, knowing that I was in a situation where a guy I was dating (but exclusively) was still so attached to his ex, he dropped a romantic weekend away with me, and dropped me basically, to feed her cats…no joke.
    I would tread very carefully…those pesky ex attachments…I wouldn’t even sleep with him if he was still in bed with his ex.
    But I admire how you composed yourself…what a shocker.

  55.  #55Kim on July 12, 2014 at 6:40 am

    This is what he wrote:

    Yeah I figured you would think there was a lack in communication, but truthfully I think I can take on the world and put so much on my plate. Before I met you, all I ever did was work, crazy stuff. About 2 years ago my business partner in Nica & I started talking about the new canal project & have re-sparked the originally idea of doing 3rd party consulting on the environmental side of the project. Pretty interesting to me, but I could bore you to tears.

    It truly is nothing personally, I just think I’m a bit of a workaholic and I could see how this could get a bit confusing.

    None the less, I enjoy spending time with you, getting to know you and do like you. I’m not trying to rearrange things and the ways you like things. I know you are more of a planner than I am, not to say your time isn’t important. I sometimes have to squeeze things in last minute because I can always find self made work in front of my computer.

    I’m at that age where something great needs to take place, I’ve done some amazing things but, it’s time to buy that boat, a house, and really get to where i want to be.. lol 😉

    (Good ole American dream, part 2) 🙂

    I totally get that you like to be outdoors and active, I prefer that over work any day, love the things you like to do, and would love to do some of the things we’ve talked about. It would be a lot of fun!!!

    I am a little worried for you and the things you have shared with me about your situation. I am also a little worried that if I were to get more into this emotionally and then you leave in a few months, that wouldn’t really be cool. Or on the contrary, how can you stay? I hope to be a good person to share things with and spend time with. But I must say I’m a little hesitant on how close I want to get (kinda self-protection). I could see it being very very easy!! One night of cuddling screams ahhh and emotions running wild. I really really enjoy it a lot. I can’t say everything hasn’t been great when we’re together.

    I just worry about the what if’s.

    I hope I haven’t confused you, left you wondering.. And felt I needed to express some of this…

    I can see how lack of communication could leave you just wondering … But don’t forget you can always text me anytime too ;p

  56.  #56Kim on July 12, 2014 at 6:44 am

    Well, I replied that I am looking for a partner, not last minute hook-ups and that I honour his quest for work and new projects and like that in a man.

    However, I am holding out for someone who wants to build something with me, see me in his free time, and who is on the same page as me.

    I also said that I had fun and am very fond of him and feel sad but that this wouldn’t work for me, the whole ‘not being sure’ theme.

    Well, I worded it a bit more Rori style, but in short this is what it is, basically saying he would not be my man if he is pulling back and laying out external factors as a reason.

    Basically, after being all over me and gushing and wanting me to meet the parents etc., he did a 360 degree turn and now says ‘not that much into you’. And honestly, I don’t care about the reasons and excuses, I am not dating someone who is not 100% into me. And I definitely don’t get intimate with them.

  57.  #57Kim on July 12, 2014 at 6:49 am

    Plus, the other feeling I get is that he realized it would take ‘effort’ to date me. Make and plan dates, make an investment of money (even though I am happy with games evenings and me cooking), most of all commit to some type of schedule of seeing me regularly.
    He is probably more interested in doing stuff when he feels like it, or when his friends call, last minute (boy), and frankly, he is very attractive, and plenty of girls run after him, who are less ‘demanding’ and have lower standards with regards to dating and sex etc. So he probably just decided that it would be easier to carry on like that.
    It’s fine and again, his reasons don’t matter…I just need to get over the fact that a guy can gush and be all over you and even mention the ‘m’ word so early on (well, just talking about it), and then just:

    It seems tough to keep trusting people might actually mean what they say, but yeah, I’ll get over it 😉

  58.  #58Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:04 am

    Kim hi. I’ve got to say it is great that he is so open and shared so much. My hunch is that he is a bit scared. Which is normal. If the tables were turned you would be too. My suspicion is also that my tend to be/think of being brutally honest. In that you might have shared too much details about your life. That might have scared him. He seems to want to go all the way but with someone that he can be sure of will be there with him.

    The scenario I am seeing from what you share is that you basically tell him that what you both share can only be temporary because you might have to leave anyway. So he can only be a for now boyfriend. Then you go ahead and get attached.

    I believe it might be a bit confusing for him.

    Is there a way he could possibly help you to stay? Maybe sharing that could let him see how truly vulnerable you really are. And how scared you are of the uncertainty in your life. Yet at the same time letting him know it would totally his choice if he wants to help.

    You have to realize that many women are looking for help. Not love. The men out there are aware of that and don’t want to be used either. They are as afraid as we are.

  59.  #59Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:11 am

    Regarding the planning and timing thing, I realize it is important to you. And I have to say life happens. Being set in our ways sometimes get in the way of spontanaiety and fun.

    In any event earlier you were sharing how much he seems to be in you while you were uninvested and feeling tentative about him. Do you think he might have sensed that?

    Even though now you seemed to have changed your story because he didn’t plan for this weekend. He knows what the effort to date is and I believe he is a real man who doesn’t feel intimidated by the effort.

    He has doubts. He is sharing them now. Better earlier than later. He is working through his doubts before he jumps in head way. That is what smart men do. They work through their doubts before fully committing.

  60.  #60Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:12 am

    Kim I can’t see yet where he poofed.

  61.  #61Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:16 am

    Thank you Femininewoman, yes all that had crossed my mind. Although, I also made the experience that when a man is all in, none of this seems to matter.
    So I feel kinda bored with this.
    I honestly feel convinced these are excuses. I would make thise same excuses (about nkt getting attached, or having too much work), when I had second thoughts about a guy.
    I am not going to squeeze blood out of stone here.
    To me, the conversation is lver necause I shared how I felt and I shared that I am looking for something else.
    I was really unimpressed by the rapid pull back after sex, and the botching of a date and zero plan making.
    Like he was gone already and this is the epilogue.
    I don’t have anything else to say unless he runs in my door.
    As I practically dumped him (I want something different), I doubt it.
    Yeah, I get the scared thing, but he is a man and if he wants me, he makes a plan.
    Bottom line.
    He is attractive and charming and women love him. Most women are easier than me, especially younger ones. I understand why he pulled out and I let him go.

  62.  #62Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:20 am

    Kim – see me in his free time

    This statement would speak volumes to me. I would take it to mean that when I am busy with work you will be understanding. I would take it to mean that you realize that I don’t have too much free time. And that you are okay with seeing me when I choose.

  63.  #63Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:22 am

    Femininewoman, he yet has to make a one on one date in advance. Never happened. Either with friends, change of plans last minute, and he also stood me up one and once invited friends over when I had prepared food for the two of us. Without asking me.
    Honestly, that isn’t quite hiw dating works for me…and that doesn’t mean I am not spontaneous. I just want to feel respected and courted and he hasn’t shown much (any) effort. Just a lot of talk.

  64.  #64Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Work only got a big deal once he pulled back. Before the pull back, he was hard to get rid of.
    That also tells me a lot.

  65.  #65Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:25 am

    Kim many men pull back. They regroup. Then come again. They are human. We all sometimes need some space to really think and understand our own selves and what we want. You know what you want. You shared that with him. After sex maybe he just needs time to reconcile both your wants and needs in a way that he knows he can handle it. Men’s timelines and ours are different.

    It is your choice and decision to make. I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. All I am saying is look at things from the other side. Flip the coin. Look at the way you have decided to look at things and maybe see if you can see it another way.

    Have this story ever played out in your life before? What are you doing to contribute to it?

    Just some questions to ponder as you build your awareness about yourself.

  66.  #66Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:28 am

    “I just want to feel respected and courted”

    I always feel so curious when I see/hear these types of statements.

    What makes you feel respected? Have you shared that? How do you share that?

  67.  #67Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:28 am

    So many times us women try to reason, give space, hope for the best. Then itbtirns out he was dating someone else.
    Just sayin’
    Too much deliberation over a guy and why he gets scared never got me anywhere.
    Give me the guy who wants me enough not to get scared and we have a winner.
    Maybe he felt I was not as invested, but that is even mkre of a reason for a man to court me and win me over if he wants me. It was early days.

  68.  #68Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:30 am

    Well, I felt disrespected when he invited all his friends over without asking me, to my condo, when I had made food for us both.
    I shared with him that it felt bad to me and that I would prefer to be asked first.
    I mean, wouldn’t anyone?
    It borders on being rude, to me.

  69.  #69Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:31 am

    Recently someone looked at me and said “you are rude and you are disrespectful” in the rudest and most disrespectful manner. Other people saw it. She has been holding onto a story for more than 3 years now that I am not even clear what happened.

    It reinforced for me that people experience respect differently and that I constantly need to check in with myself.

  70.  #70Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:33 am

    Give me the guy who wants me enough not to get scared and we have a winner.

    mmmmm We are all human we get scared.

    All I am saying is don’t deliberate if you don’t want to. Just look at the whole picture.

  71.  #71Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:34 am

    Nope, never had anyone gushing and then pull back after sex, for days and botch dates.
    Never happened.
    It doesn’t feel inspiring either, rather immature and emotionally unavailable.
    I know I read about the pull back after sex a lot. In my experience, all the mature giod guys I ended up in long term relationships never did that, quite to the contrary.
    I am not needy, but a total communication breakdown and making no plans to see each other kind of catapults him out. He is not even a CD right now?
    He knew I was traditional and not for casual sex. He decided he didn’t want more.
    No big deal.
    Lesson learnt.

  72.  #72Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Feeling bad and feeling disrespected for me are two different things.

    I recently had a date say something to me that felt disrespectful. I pulled away, pullled into my shell because it scared the he!ll out of me. When we finally spoke his take was that he only says certain things and share certain things with people he considers close and his friends. I dunno. Maybe he was assuming that you both are close enough so he can truly be himself and be with his friends with you?

    People’s stories and experiences of the same things can be so different.

  73.  #73Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:37 am

    I do agree in principle with you FW. Just, if you had the guys who did not get scared, and then had the guys who do get scared…then the picture of tying to look at the other person’s view changes.
    I got a bs vibe from his mail.
    That’s because I spent some time with him and know him a little bit.
    So I take my intuition and vibe very seriously.
    Fact: doesn’t want to see me.
    Why is not important. Not to me.

  74.  #74Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Also, I got the feelin he was more hesitant/afraid of one on one dates because of the intimacy they bring. He might be an EUM.
    Familiarity is fine, just not after three or four dates, for me.

  75.  #75Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:43 am

    It was early days.

    Kim I apologize if this triggers you.

    Then again if you do believe “It was early days” why would you have sex with him? I ask because I believe you value yourself and have standards. Also in my mind a man is essentially a stranger when I consider ” It was early days.” So I ask myself if I would consider having sex with a stranger?

  76.  #76Kim on July 12, 2014 at 7:50 am

    Well, we had spent some time together and he was with me for a whole weekend before, lying next to me and nothing happened lol.
    Honestly, yes, I should have waited and I wanted to…we have known only for about a month, and it kind of happened after a long night.
    I take it as a lesson.
    Also, if he came back, I would not be intimate unless there had been consistency and I knew where it was headed.
    I don’t regret it because it was kind of natural, but now I believe it was too early (for me).
    And I kind of feel punished for it.
    I don’t get attached with sex, luckily, I just feel I gave something of myself that I should have kept until I and some kind of feeling of safety or commitment or exclusivity.
    What’s done can’t be undone.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on July 12, 2014 at 7:54 am

    Kim it seems to me the lesson is getting to know oneself. What does sex mean to me? How do I share this before having sex? Does spending a long night together translates into having sex with no discussion before about what it means to me?

    “Knowing the questions to ask is the game of celestial intuition.”

  78.  #78Veronica on July 12, 2014 at 8:03 am

    Feeling old pain quite sharply now. And I notice how I want the CDs to distract me. And that feels icky too like getting stuck in imaginary land. It’s just old pain not even connected to anyone now, and I feel it till I can’t even focus on what’s in front of me, can’t even take care of me. Then the knowledge that I probably won’t be there again because of Rori’s tools, then some kindness for myself and then the old pain’s gone, and it doesn’t matter what a man does or doesn’t do. But now I also realise that I approve of myself when I feel these feelings and say to myself ‘I feel scared that FunnyCD or someone like him will poof’ and leave it at that. Yes I feel scared.

    And a slightly older man messages me – this is getting funny.

    How about presence of mind to finish my work, a fantastic job opportunity and personal growth – I might as well take my chances : P

  79.  #79Kim on July 12, 2014 at 8:06 am

    He contacted me and said he thinks I misunderstood something…wants to talk.
    Meh. Maybe later.

  80.  #80nyx on July 12, 2014 at 8:06 am


    Of course it was rude of him to invite his friends to your place. I’d still say: he hasn’t repeated it since you shared your view.

    Two things strike me in his text “I am trying to rearrange” and “a house”. Do not cut him off because of disappointment. Smile at a few new men, (or every man 😉 ) while you see if these are excuses or plans. I still see a good guy in this. Now- tables turned- would you want to get attached to, and change your lifestyle for a guy who would be gone in August? He has a right to be scared, if he wants to invest more. Just saying these can be all excuses- or real plans. Don’t cut till you’re sure which. CD.

    And you’re perfectly correct in the things about not making excuses for men, it gets us nowhere. What if you didn’t excuse but didn’t cut either? You did state/share your needs to him. I think you handled this beautifully 🙂

    You having other plans this weekend is inadvertent but perfect timing… I do think FW is correct- he might be regrouping. Great- you’re focusing on other things with other people, he has space to.

    People always show what they are with time.

    (Oh, and just tell me off if you think I’m offering unwanted advice. My family functions that way- anyone presenting a problem WILL be offered 4 different takes on it, and noone will take offense if their solution isn’t applied. That doesn’t mean I’m unaware that others might feel it is presumptuous.)

    Again- I think you handle this- stating your needs and boundaries- beautifully.

  81.  #81Veronica on July 12, 2014 at 8:12 am

    And then my dad jumps to help me when I’m moving stuff – my dad is awesome, this is how I’ve known him. Feeling teary realising how precious my dad is.

  82.  #82Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 8:24 am

    FW #75
    I agree…

    This is only for me… NOT necessarly for everyone…

    When I was in my 20s I HAPPILY participated in one night stands and sex without knowing each other for very long… I’m glad I did.. I do NOT regret any of it..

    What I discovered, way back then, was that
    For Me, sharing my intimate, lovely, warm self with men I don’t know very well did not honor my sexuality, my heart or my soul… and my energy would be unbalanced, I would feel off… I didn’t like it!!

    Sooo since then I am very loving to me and honor MY need for emotional intimacy (because I know and love ME) before having sex!!

    I have to say… the media makes casual sex seem sooo romantic and easy!!! In the course of half hour people who barely know each other are enthusiastically having wild, hot, yummy perfectly chorographed sex!!

    but for the past 30 years
    I have listened and honored MY feelings about sexual intimacy!! Me loving ME!!

    Also the men I have dated and had relationships with all respected me for my boundaries…
    and for most men, because I lovingly and carefully approach sexual intimacy, they feel cherished and respected also.

  83.  #83Labbit on July 12, 2014 at 8:30 am

    Kim — please forgive me if I’m overstepping here, but when I read your comments I feel a blast of energy come towards me. It’s a rush of ‘I don’t feel good, please help me, I must punish myself’. From my point of view, I see you being so hard on yourself right now…I wish for you to see all the beauty and love you have inside and pour that on yourself. I would be equally frustrated in your shoes. But I don’t see why you need to beat yourself up about having sex with a man you were into, or spending time with him, or listening to your heart in deciding to move on.

    Is there any way you can take a few steps back and instead look at this as an experience, see what you can learn and what felt good and what didn’t feel good? Those are the things you can carry forward into your next CD. Don’t take the hurt, or the self-flagellation with you. You don’t need either of those things. Right now is a good time to give yourself extra doses of love. Closing our hearts is a defense mechanism. I put walls up too. And taking them down is a brick-by-brick process of immersing myself in love. If you can let your heart stay open you will heal yourself. You deserve that. Sending you love.

    Azure Blu 26 – Wow, you have summed up so many of my feelings of sharing my feelings! I feel funny sharing my feelings sometimes, very raw and naked and exposed. When you finally do it just feels so good!! I’m glad you have that experience to fall back on whenever it seems tough, and I’m glad you shared it here. I felt warm reading it.

    Liquid Light 43 — A lunch date sounds wonderful, away from the temptations a night at a bar might bring out in him. 🙂 I hope he is on his best behavior and treats you like the goddess you are. I hope too that you feel wonderful, siren-y and relaxed in his presence.

    sequoia 48 — Although the conversation was hard for you, it’s wonderful how you were able to open up and share how you felt in that moment! It sounds like a wonderful evening. That could be a high for the whole weekend…

    Last night I had a lovely date with a CD that’s been around for a few months. Low-key dinner, ice cream cones and a walk around the neighborhood. This is a CD I admit that I think about a lot, more than I should. We connect well and I always feel good around him, though I wish he’d lean forward more.

    During our date I got a first-hand experience in the role I play in him leaning back versus coming forward as I desire him to! Over the last week or two I’ve worked on relaxing my obsession, allowing me to focus on me instead of on him or any other CD. I even forgot about him for a few days…first time ever. Sure enough on the date, he remarked that he couldn’t stop thinking about me the other day. I asked which day that was and it was one of the days I’d forgotten about him! The day after he couldn’t stop thinking about me he’d been extra chatty and open which I loved! Now I see what Rori talks about, how if I lean back and stay warm it gives HIM the space to come forward as both he and I want.

    I feel silly but now of course after a lovely date I can’t stop thinking about him again. So I breathe, ease into relaxation, and allow myself to let thoughts of him go. I hope that in time I’ll be able to lean back more quickly, to create the space for him to come forward even more, since he’s really good at it when the space is there!!

  84.  #84Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 8:35 am

    You are such a SIREN!!! Yay you

    I LOVE what he wrote you!!!
    and I agree with NYX…
    you, gently holding your boundaries; of being busy this weekend gave you both time to see what Is working…
    and what you/he are concerned about…

    I believe the main thing HE is concerned about is HIS feelings for YOU…
    AND YOU being GONE so soon… as I read what he wrote…
    it if VERY clear he likes you !!!
    and that his #1 worry is… he’ll be MORE attached and you’ll be gone…
    If I were him… I wouldn’t get involved with someone who is leaving in August… PERIOD!!!

    AND he is talking about cleaning up his act…
    trying to make more money and becoming MORE responsible… Just what you had been concerned about with him…

  85.  #85Veronica on July 12, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Wow I’m learning so much from the sirens here, thank you for sharing.

  86.  #86Linda on July 12, 2014 at 10:07 am

    Spending a lazy Saturday morning sitting on my porch. my puppy is playing tug-of-war with herself. It just started to sprinkle outside and the rain smells fresh and the sound of it hitting the leaves on the tree are soothing to me.

    I feel division in me. It does not have me all stirred up but I want to wait on this and see what will surface totally. Parts of me feel fractured and unsettled. I spent some time this morning looking at women’s pictures and headlines on POF that were my age in my area. Honestly I would not contact 95% of them if I were a man.Lots of their words and attitudes that were conveyed felt like bee stings. My profile is positive and upbeat but I decided to delete my profile for now. It feels off to me right now. I don’t feel like I have any energy to invest in dating right now and I had not even the slightest interest in anyone that contacted me for now.

    There are pockets of me that still wish that things would have gone differently with P. I have accepted that they didn’t and know that my decision was the right one for me and one that had to be made. The work till I get it done or a core vein in me. I still have not made peace with all of it yet but it will. My feelings for him can be left on the shelf where I put them.

    This post serves as a reminder to me that my ability to communicate my feelings needs major attention. I am not able to flow in them. I feel them am cognitive of them but I just go mute. I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings about this. I want to be more genuine and authentic but not be a “wear my heart on my sleve” kind. There is a balance here yes?

  87.  #87Kim on July 12, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Guess what ladies. Seems he has a gf.
    Or a secret.
    He said there is mkre I should knkw, and although not married and no kids it needs to be talked about.
    I kinda knew there was mkre to this. He could have told me, we spent a lot of time together. Eeeeeek 🙁

  88.  #88Kim on July 12, 2014 at 10:22 am

    84 Azure Blu, I AGREE!
    I thought the same about clearing up his act etc.

  89.  #89Kim on July 12, 2014 at 10:32 am

    Well, who knkws. He said he would write me a mail.
    Some kind of big secret he kept from me basically.

  90.  #90sheryl hansen on July 12, 2014 at 10:47 am

    I am in a very unique relationship where I feel I have to walk on eggshells when I speak because he has such a sensitive ego. So sometimes it is difficult for me to express my feeling as well as being in them.
    Also, I have a quandary about a discussion we had recently. I even tried to ask another male friend and can’t seem to get a straight answer and maybe it’s because they don’t know themselves. My friend was trying to tell me that men need to feel needed. Which I understand, as I want to feel needed as well, but I am getting that it is in quite a different realm for men. So my experience is that the men in my life have been drawn to my strength and independence, (which in my mind means I really don’t need them because I am independent and doing well on my own), but then when I try to need them I fall into the needy category and they loose interest. I think that is one of the reasons why my husband left me, is because I was trying to let him take the male role and I became needy and lost my independence.
    How does one stay strong and independent and at the same time act like they need a man?

  91.  #91Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 11:26 am

    Ohhh…. Noooo…
    hiding a girlfriend feels soooo deceitful!!
    Especially when he pulled you in sooo close
    especially when you shared you like to be exclusive when haveing sex!!! 🙁

    This is just me…
    a deal breaker…Period… NO MORE

  92.  #92Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Ohhhh… wait…
    I must have missunderstood…

    YOU don’t know
    what the secret is yet…

    Ohhh… that’s different…
    heart still unzipped and soft
    BUT (strong and sturdy on the inside!!)

  93.  #93Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 11:37 am

    Interesting that you looked at the women on POF… :->

    When i feel like dating again I was going to try that site…
    My girlfriend told me recently… a friend of hers got engaged to a guy she met on POF…
    I have been sceptical BUT…
    I’m pretty good at online dating filtering…

    I too am sitting for awhile with me and although at times it feels uncomfortable NOT to have a date (steadily dating for 2 years)…
    I am honoring me… waiting to absorb all that life has for me … and studying what has happened in the last 2 years…

  94.  #94Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 11:38 am

    thank you….

  95.  #95Azure Blu on July 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Veronica #78
    when i read what you are sharing
    I think it is very much about you warmly listening to YOU…
    NOT making it about anyone else or a man…

    I want to do that tooo… cause I have a tendency to ignore those fearful feelings while with certain men and not sitting with them HONORING them!!
    Me ignoring, NOT recognizing, NOT taking time to listen to ME…
    Is like my little girl was treated while she was growing up…
    I want to listen to YOU AZURE, softly and warmly sit down and taking time to carefully
    and gently
    Listen,,, my darling one…

  96.  #96Kim on July 12, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Yes, don’t know what the secret is but the untagging and hiding the phone…kinda points to another woman. Never took me to his apartment. No dates this weekend. I have a theory….

  97.  #97Kim on July 12, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Ok he wrote that long paragraph how he still lives with his ex but it is not romantic yada yada and he can’t afford to move. They have been like this for over a year.
    And, I suppose that is why he turned the phone upside down and untagged me on fb.
    It is not romantic but it is not unromantic either.
    So I told him this:
    He should have told me before getting intimate.
    I felt blindsided.
    I said I knew he was still attached because of the phone and fb stuff and wished he had told me before things got serious.
    I also said he can contact me when he sorted his affairs and moved out, other than that I am not interested anymore.
    He has since been trying to send me all sorts of bs, like he doesn’t like to be tagged because of his business etc.
    All bs.
    She has no idea, she is not dating anyone else, and never wanted to move out so they are still in a relationship

  98.  #98sequoia on July 12, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Thank you Azure Blue, Kim and Labbit.

    I haven’t heard from him, but he thinks I am kind of on a date today and he is on a birthday party and he is going abroad for a few days tomorrow for business.
    I can tell that he felt triggered when I mentioned that I am dating other man..he was joking about it and pointed out to me that I feel upset that he still cuddles with his ex but I date other men?
    well its tricky…
    I get your point that its better to share this before that one is looking for a serious commited connection, and
    I expressed it more subtly when he asked me why I came back ( I was abroad for 10 years) and I told him the main reason was to attract my soulmate into my life.

    I feel challenged so.
    I realised that I can not expect from him to drop his ex until he wants to,
    and I realised that if I keep dating other men,
    which I might also kiss and become intimate with I can not expect from him to not see any other women.
    It feels tricky, messy…i am not used to that, it brings up anxiety.
    It’s very early days with us and I feel physically very attracted to him and some part of me just wanted to go with the passion of it – and I don’t regret it as it was amazing,
    but we did not have much time to get to know each other.
    He said there is time to think about things now, as he is going to be away until tuesday.

    I also told him that I am not always so spontaneous to meet him (like him calling me on the day to meet and than I agree to meet, because I felt a strong desire to see him) and that if he wants to see me he has to plan a little in advance as I make plans for my nights of as I am working 4 nights a week, and that I have already made plans ( a date) for next friday, etc.

    I have the feeling he is thinking about things now. he told me that if he wanted to be with his ex he would be with her, but things just don’t feel right with her. Well…

    So i guess the best thing is to go through my anxiety not controlling things with overfunctioning. The sex was great but I myself do not know if he would be a good long term partner for me.
    The only way I’ll find out is if I feel my anxiety and relax into not-overfunctioning and date other man…
    if he really wants to be with me he will do sthg. also I have the impression he is not used to working much for a women, he seems a bit layed back….

  99.  #99sequoia on July 12, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    I haven’t contacted long distant -CD for a while now – and I feel happy about it. I made a few pushy mistakes with him so and he might not get in touch again for some time. He is not that much on my mind any more since I have met G-Cd, which feels good.

    I am also going to go on a date with E-CD next friday who arranged this date with me already last wednesday – wow I can’t remember any man asking me out in such advance. It feels very good so, and builds anticipation!
    He is very different to any other man I met before, however I met him at work, he is one of the members of the gym I am working in and one of my ‘clients’. Its ok to meet him so as I am working as self employed there but still it feels a bit strange and things, if they do, have to develop slowly because of this, wich is kind of good 🙂

  100.  #100prplpsn28 on July 12, 2014 at 4:14 pm


  101.  #101nyx on July 12, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    @ Kim

    I’m so sorry for you. You are handling this very well. As opposed to him.

    Of course he might leave her for you, but… a few years down the road when he starts being inattentive, will you ask yourself if he is dating a new woman, telling her he “isn’t romantic” with you, you two “just live together because he can’t afford to move out”? >.<

  102.  #102Mandy on July 12, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    Short update…

    Stood myg ground, said I won’t pay for any more stuff, that it’s on J.

    This may let him feel more masculine and in charge of his stuff.

    Big step ladies. It was scary but I did it…

    I feel great but also uneasy…like letting a child go…oddly enough…UGH. GROSS.

  103.  #103Kim on July 12, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    Nyx..whoa, that was exactly how I felt.
    Also, he kelt harping on about the passion and how lovely it felt to be together, and I am thinking ‘yeah, for sure he said the same to her at some point’.
    I lost all respect.
    He kept contacting me but also, after Instated my boundaries about not dating a man who lives with his ex (who doesn’t seem to be his ex), he was calling me uptight and all sorts. He was making me wrong for not accepting this situation as normal.
    Now, I had many live in relationships, when it’s over it is over and one moves out. This is a rental, he could have found a roommate. One time I had a similar situation but we *owned* the house together. Even then it lasted only 6 months, and we both brought other partners home. Awkward but showing we had moved on.
    I told him I would consider seeing him if I got to see his place and could confirm with the girl that the story is true, or she called me and confirmed.
    He blew up when I mentioned this.
    Tells me all I need to know.
    Not so much ex.

  104.  #104Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 7:01 am

    Mandy #101
    Darling Siren!!! Big step!! whoot, whoot!!

    Boundaries (and gently holding them) is the quickest way to building trust with ourselves…
    which is the ONLY way for us to be able to trust others.

  105.  #105Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 7:14 am

    (((Ohhhh…. Kim!!!))))
    gentle, sweet siren!!!
    You are doing sooo welll…

    In my mind…
    THis was BRILLIANT!!!
    “…I would consider seeing him if I got to see his place and could confirm with the girl that the story is true, or she called me and confirmed.”
    It is UNBLIEVABLE that he is trying to blame you and MAKE YOU WRONG…
    I’m in complete agreement…

  106.  #106Labbit on July 13, 2014 at 7:51 am

    I’m feeling excited today! Going on a date with a CD, I shall call him TenderCD. We’d previously dated for a couple of months pre-RR but fizzled out, we just could not communicate and I ended things. A few months into using Rori’s tools he came back on his own (!!!) asking for another shot.

    I have always thought of him on his best days as handsome, tender and warm. But in our last dating go-round he also seemed uncommunicative, withdrawn, overly cautious and secretive. Previously when we dated we got exclusive and intimate too quickly and it led me into a downward spiral of insecurity. Now that I am learning so much about myself and how to love myself, I see TenderCD in a completely different light. He is my mirror in so many ways. I see how we both argue the same way, which is to withdraw and shut down. I see how we both romance the same way, which is to touch and say sexy intimate things to each other. When he starts feeling secretive to me, I check with myself to see where I am hiding something from me, whether it’s a feeling I don’t want to experience or a thought I don’t want to face or whatever. Usually that ends up being the case and then we both open right back up. Not always. Sometimes it is something in him, and when I ask he might tell me or he might not. He might not even know that something is going on with him! It feels easier to trust now.

    This time around I can see all the ways he shows me his interest that before seemed not enough or unsatisfactory. It’s not perfect by any means — there are still times when I feel overwhelmed by emotions and I can’t tell whether they are real and in the relationship or lies inside me coming from my Nasty Voice. In those moments I feel sad, confused, and fearful. Those moments are less and less. I see that I am the clueless woman to his clueless man, and I like it! We are learning so much through each other and healing together. I feel a warmth and openness when I am with him and when I am not with him that I haven’t felt in a long, long time. I don’t feel attached to any outcome with him. I am on my bridge, I know what I want, and if it turns out he can’t give it to me I know I’ll be OK. I am enjoying every moment with him for now.

    With Circular Dating I am also not latched onto him the way I was previously. I feel more whole, like I can rely on myself, and slowly like I can trust myself, rather than having to look to him (or anyone) for those assurances. Maybe that’s the biggest difference of all.

  107.  #107Kim on July 13, 2014 at 7:52 am

    Aw thanks Azure Blu.
    I feel less than brilliant lol.
    In the cold light of day, I know he is not the devil but just a weak man. I know it is unlikely they are really still together (spoke to his friend), but at the same time he doesn’t want to upset the status quo, which is why he doesn’t want her to find out presumably.
    I guess they live like some old married couples, nothig much going on but sharing space.
    Though to me that means he is not free.
    I couldn’t deal with that situation anyway, let alone the lie.
    I know telling his parents about me and all that is true, because apparently they know also.
    I would only consider talking to him if it was all out in the open, or he had moved out. I foresee neither of these things happening. Although he did say he was working so much to be able to afford moving out…well if it hasn’t happened in a year, it ain’t gonna happen now.
    I don’t work with ‘potential’. I work with what and who is in front of me.
    And he’s not.
    Truly, I knkw he likes me a lot. I also know a lot of it for him is chamistry and passion and physical, which is what he hasn’t been getting in his quasi relationship.
    I am not going to be his go to person for sex while he eats dinner every night with his ex. No way.
    He said he told me because he wants to move things forward with ius, but what if he moved out and I left.
    He is making his move out delendent on what I do?
    That just means he wants to stay in the situation. He is happy with it. And it’s almost like ‘well if you make me move, you better guarantee me that you are worth it and you stay’.
    I don’t give a rats arse. He is welcome to stay with her, for as long as he wants, if it isn’t his decision I wouldn’t want him anyway.
    Not the devil, but a weak and lazy immature man boy.

  108.  #108Kim on July 13, 2014 at 7:56 am

    Oops, my comment just went into moderation..eek.
    Meaning to say thanks azure blu!
    He is not a bad guy, just weak. I don’t think they are in a full on relationship but things are not finished.
    He even said ‘what happened if I moved out and then you left’. So he doesn’t want to move out, and makes it dependent on me.
    I don’t care what he does, frankly, as long as he does it of his own accord.
    I am not going to engage in further conversation until he moved (won’t happen), or takes me around there and puts it all out in the open (won’t happen, he doesn’t want to upset the status quo. This tells me a lot).
    I think he was caught up in chemistry amd passion as that is what is lacking in his life, they live like an old married couple next to each other.
    However, I want a full on relationship in my life, not the ‘go to’ person for n and sex while the wife is waiting with dinner at home.

  109.  #109Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 8:00 am

    Dominique #38
    Thank you !!! :~>
    I love your writings… they have alll helped MUCH!!!

  110.  #110Kim on July 13, 2014 at 8:13 am

    I also know what he said about telling is mother etc is true, apparently people do know that they are not together in a full way. Still.

  111.  #111Linda on July 13, 2014 at 8:18 am

    I feel inspired reading your post Labbit.

    It feels soft and calm. There is also a hint of strength in there too. It seems a pretty adequate description of a living breathing relationship. One where is the possibility of growth and acceptance and change.

    I hope that he comes with the same attitudes. If perhaps inspiration will overtake him from you.

  112.  #112Linda on July 13, 2014 at 8:34 am

    I have been really swimming around in my emotional soup bowl again. This is my truth about feeling messages. My difficulty with them is rooted in self protectiveness.

    Feeling messages feel dangerous to me. They feel exposing. They bring unpleasant rejection and or ridicule that could be totally avoided in their absence.

    I feel all the time… I know what I am feeling. I am a reasonable person. I have to be a safe place for me.

  113.  #113Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 8:50 am

    ((((Linda #110))))
    Not sure if this pertains?

    Rori says:
    “Emotions fuel you,
    they heal you,
    and your emotions move OTHERS.

    Meaning – the quality of your emotion, and the way in which you express your emotions is directly how you get more love in your life.

    The trick for us is to get so “aware” of our emotions – the patterns of them, what triggers them, how they morph and change and shift, and how it feels to not so much “manage” them as “feel” them.

    And as that awareness grows – so does your faith in yourself.
    In other words – your self-esteem and self-respect can grow powerfully as you become aware of,
    accept, love and express your emotions
    on deeper and deeper levels.

    When you speak the word “feel” and use it as a channel to express what you feel –
    you’re working on “all burners.”

1. Becoming aware of what you feel

    2. Putting words to what you feel

    3. Expressing what you feel in a way that involves no one but you –
    and so is totally, 100% safety-making,
    world and man-trusting,
    self, world and man honoring…
    and profoundly moving in the classical,
    artistic sense.

    The faster you practice it in this structured way, the faster you learn how to do it brilliantly,
    and the faster you’re able to connect heart-to-heart with any man you choose.”

  114.  #114Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Mmmm… I feel calm reading about the power of
    YOU focusing on YOU
    AND leaning back…
    How YOUR vibrations changed things almost immediatley!!
    Sooo POWERFUL, lovely Siren!

  115.  #115Daria on July 13, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    tolerating anxiety….

    aaah i feel panicked anxious

  116.  #116Daria on July 13, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    wow Azure Blu thank you so much for that Rori quote… never seen it before and feels so re-encouraging

  117.  #117Daria on July 13, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Violette – reading your posts feeling captivated!

    am also in the practice of working out being sexually pleased by men

    last few years… it feels so frustrating to deal with talking about not feeling good being touched this way, and what does feel good, and…


  118.  #118Millie on July 13, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    Feeling pretty low today.
    J said he was going to call to make plans with me this weekend….he didn’t. I wasn’t waiting on him though, I went about my days and accepted invites from friends. I just don’t like being left hanging like that. What can I do, or shift, so men don’t treat me like that? I’m thinking if he reaches out again, I’m going to give a power speech, or at least some power sentences. How I’m feeling is this…I want a man who follows through with what he says. I trust a man like that. When actions and words don’t line up, I don’t trust that person. That’s one point, the second point is that if I’m going to continue seeing someone, I want to feel like we are moving forward and growing in connection. I don’t feel like that with J at all. I don’t want to continue spending time with someone who doesn’t want what I want relationship wise. By his vibe and words, I’m not getting the feeling he wants a relationship, he wants to play. Which is fine, but I’m bored of this. I haven’t really given a power speech in a while, or stated what I wanted with this guy, but it feels like a good idea if he comes back around. What do you ladies think?

    I don’t know why I’m still hung up on Mechanic. Even though we are friends, I find myself not wanting to be this woman that I am. I don’t feel like a lady. I feel jealous when I see pictures of him with other women. I feel less than. I remember Andrea’s words of “why am I using this man to beat myself up?” and that was such a wise and true statement. I feel myself wanting to withdraw from him completely and disappear, encase myself in a cocoon hidden from his view until out comes a butterfly. But I should think of myself as a butterfly right now. Part of me is disappointed in a few instances of how he’s treated me. That is also enough for me to step away. He told me he doesn’t want to get married again, that he can’t find a woman that would understand his life, that he can’t find anyone to date locally, that he tends to date women out of state or even country. From where I’m standing that reveals fear of intimacy and a desire for unavailability, no real commitment. It’s very clear to me. Another reason to withdraw from him.
    I really don’t know why I care so much…

    Overall, I’m disappointed. I feel like I just don’t have time for this anymore. These two me have bored me and presented some potentially exhausting situations if I choose to stick around, which I’m not.

    Thanks for listening xo

  119.  #119Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    I feel YOUR self LOVE when I read what you have shared

    I am pasting and copying your feeling messages for J.
    They are AWESOME!!!

    Soooo… simple AND Profound!!! SOOOO Powerful…

    And then of course,
    when we share our feelings with FM…
    Rori says:
    “Expressing what you feel in a way that involves no one but you –
    and so IS TOTALLY,
    100% safety-making,
    world and man-trusting,
    world and man honoring…
    “The faster you practice it, the faster you learn how to do it brilliantly,
    and the faster you’re able to connect heart-to-heart with any man you choose.”!!!!

  120.  #120Linda on July 13, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Azure. Experiencing myself as a safe place while exposing my feelings is something I can not relate to.

    The idea of using feeling messages will inviting more love into your life is curious to me though.

  121.  #121Linda on July 13, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    I don’t like anger. Anger has its place but it is the emotion that seems to get expressed the most! Anger triggers shut down and pull away mode for me.

    What fuels all this anger in people I wonder?

  122.  #122April Rose on July 13, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    Millie, Azur Blu,

    “How I’m feeling is this…I want a man who follows through with what he says. I trust a man like that. When actions and words don’t line up, I don’t trust that person.”

    This, whilst a good and clear statement about what you want, isn’t about feelings.

    It is good to ‘hold’ our standards and desires within us. And share feeling messages! Feeling messages about how you felt in the situation, NOT your judgement of it.

    Truest vulnerability would say something like “I missed your presence last weekend. It feels so warm and fun spending time with you, and it would feel great to have more of that.”

  123.  #123Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    Linda #119
    Good question…

    I know in my life…
    I used to have much RAGE… overwhelming anger…
    worked on understanding where it came from
    Worked on not expressing it in inappropriate and hurtful (me and others) ways…

    I discovered much of it came from my Mother…
    she was extremely angry…
    BUT it was VERY difficult to see as she covered it up by being EXTREMELY SWEET to people outside of her family… (ohhh… your mother is sooo sweet and nice)
    and expressing it by withdrawing love for, days, weeks, years to me and my sisters (and her husbands)
    Some of MY anger came from me being raised by an angry mom…
    realizing that some of my anger I had inherited. things I WASN”T even angry about?????
    that was sooo crazy when I figured THAT out!!

    There was MY anger & rage from feelings NOT felt, feelings NOT loved, NOT accepted

    And NOW because of Rori’s tools
    (finding my Stranger- through Toxic men) I am able to
    NOT be controlled by my anger!!!
    To LOVE and gently make her my friend
    and share her power with me
    Ahhhh… how sunshiny, bright, warm soft light hearted ME!!!

  124.  #124April Rose on July 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm


    I have heard it said by coaches and counsellors that anger is a smokescreen for grief. For instance, men access their anger more easily than the underlying sorrow which it masks.

    Each person carries so much grief. Grief is the emotion which arises from many kinds of loss – loss of a loved one, losing a job, loss of health, moving home, loss of safety, loss of innocence, to name but a few.

  125.  #125Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    April Rose,
    Ohhhh… Yes…
    That sounds VERY vulnerable and authentic.
    So that is the difference between judgement and FM?

  126.  #126Indigo on July 13, 2014 at 2:56 pm


    Labbit said this is how she feels when she reads your post “It’s a rush of ‘I don’t feel good, please help me, I must punish myself’. From my point of view, I see you being so hard on yourself right now.”

    I feel the same way.

    I see you being very hard on yourself. You said “Instead I feel always abandoned, dropped and discarded by men”. You also said “I feel callous and cold, like stone”. Have you examined your own emotional unavailability?

    Honestly speaking, Kim, this wildchild man seems casual and emotionally unavailable to me. I wouldn’t waste any more time thinking about him or mourning him.

    I really feel you have to own the reality of your own beauty and wonderfulness. That is the TRUTH, not what you believe about yourself. These men are showing up to give you a chance to heal something in yourself. Thank them for the message, then release them. Please don’t take them as a reflection of what you deserve or what you should resign yourself to. I believe you may have closed up your heart believing that no one can possibly fully love you, and it just isn’t true.

    Let wildchild man go with the wind, and turn your face to a new day, a day where you see the best in YOU.

  127.  #127Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    Linda #118
    I struggled with this also…
    But the more I learn to give MYSELF LOVE…

    Which for me has involved
    sinking into my pelvic to discover what a feeling REALLY is…
    naming THAT feeling
    gently holding, hugging,
    sitting that feeling next to me
    AND LOVING that feeling
    OR LOVING that I HATE that feeling… :-/

    all of this has made ME STRONG on the inside…
    So then I have been able to share my feeling messages with MY children (this has changed our relationships SOOO much)
    and of course with all of my relationships in my life…

    I keep working on it baby steppin’!!!

  128.  #128Indigo on July 13, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    I have just returned from a weekend in the mountains with my family, and it was so unbelievably wonderful. A full weekend without internet or phones. We stayed in a magnificent Victorian home, each with our own bedroom, massive beds and soft pillows and duvets, each room had French doors which looked out over the beautiful gardens. It had a wraparound verandah where you could bask in the warm winter sun, views all the way through the valley to the mountain range, and you could feel the tranquility right down to your bones. The weekend passed in a blissful haze of yummy breakfasts, mountain walks, tea, reading books, sherry by the fireplace and early nights in bed where you slept like a queen on her wedding night.

    I loved it. It reminded me of who I am and what I love. It made me feel filled with joy and gratitude.

  129.  #129Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    ohhhh…. I LOVE that…

    Yes, Kim,
    Please don’t close yourself off to YOU!!!
    YOU deserve YOUR wonderful LOVE and ATTENTION!!!
    Maybe take some time and do that FOR YOU on the inside…
    I know it changed MY life!!

  130.  #130April Rose on July 13, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Azur Blu,

    What comes up for me when I feel emotional (which is always!! I live in a multi-flavoured soup!) and want to express it, is a mixture of feelings, reactions, beliefs, and judgements.

    What I’m learning to do is to navigate to the feelings, so I can express them.

    My previous patterns have been judgmental, and on examination it looks as if my reaction *is* based on feeling, but not on vulnerably expressing that feeling.

    For example; he doesn’t call when he said he would. My reaction – a nagging anxiety, followed by impatience followed by indignance, then anger. My words and tone – severe, “Why didn’t you phone? Do you think I’m just going to sit and wait for you, because I will not. I’m not bothered anyway, I had important stuff to do”.

    New direction – hunt for the real emotions hiding behind the reactions. It’s funny, because now I look at it, the reactions are so quick it is as if they have jumped several stages ahead of the emotion.

    In my reaction (above), it is as if I am saying “This has really got my gremlins going. It brought up old abandonment fears and I’m trying to cover them up.”

    What would be true, authentic and vulnerable would be “I felt anxious when I didn’t hear from you. I felt triggered by my gremlins into making up stories. I don’t want to do that. I guess I was just covering up admitting how good I feel in your company and how at ease and soft my heart feels when I feel connected to you. I miss that.”

  131.  #131Azure Blu on July 13, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    (((April Rose)))
    ahhhh…. so warm and vulnerable…
    ““I felt anxious when I didn’t hear from you. I felt triggered by my gremlins into making up stories. I don’t want to do that. I guess I was just covering up admitting how good I feel in your company and how at ease and soft my heart feels when I feel connected to you. I miss that.”

    I have copied and pasted into my
    “Ideas for feeling messages” folder
    thank you!!!

  132.  #132April Rose on July 13, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    (((Azur Blu)))

    I surprised myself by what I wrote there, in that spontaneous bit of processing. Thank you for asking the question. It brought clarity, which feels like a long, soothing intake of clean air.

  133.  #133Linda on July 13, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    People use the word “disappointed” a lot too. They use it in place of admitting they are angry. But is it still anger only dressed up. It sounds more reasonable, rational and mature.

    I remember asking P one time if he was done being angry with me? (after 3 days of no communication). He said I was not angry… I was “Disappointed” ! hmmm Ohh so its not the same? But it feels the same because…being given the silent treatment withdrawing/withholding love happened with both. Passive agressive/ emotional bullying/ manipulative.
    My childhood was filled with that kind of stuff too. It feels realllllly awful to me. I broke out of its hold years ago. Honestly, I have no tolerance for it in my life now.

    My personal journey?… I was raised by an emotionally distant, wounded and angry mother and I can totally see how she got that way.

    When my girls were small and I found myself feeling rage and one time I yelled at them so loud that I scared them and frankly myself. The fearful looks on their faces cut thru me to bottom of my soul. I was undone. I curled up that night in a ball… so afraid I was going to ruin my girls. I prayed for help!

    I read “A contentious woman will raise a contentious daughter”. NOPE. It stopped. My decision was a spiritual one. My help came .

    I can honestly say I don’t feel angry/rage very often.

  134.  #134Linda on July 13, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Indigo.. how refreshing! I would love to do something like that. There is a real sense of wellness that comes from being rightly related to your family and yourself!

  135.  #135RileyTheOwl on July 13, 2014 at 5:25 pm

    Kyla, I’m in Toronto today! I’m meeting up with an old friend and exploring Kensington market, I absolutely love the atmosphere and energy here. This is such a beautiful place

  136.  #136Kim on July 13, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Indigo sounds like a nice weekend!

    I feel a lot better. Went to watch the football with MrP and he was all kver me which is so unlike him, kissing and hugging me. Eh I just let him, it felt nice but I have no real romantic feelings for him after 4 years of knowing him and the fact that he can’t do relationship. I just appreciated the date ( he brought lunch and at the sportsbar was supplying me with
    I even felt happy to tell him all about my love life lol and then he told me about what is going on with him, which triggered me a little but hardly. He also said that he wanted a relationship with me when we first met but I went crazy (he referred to one little incident when he was late to pick me up and I went with a gf in the car) – a typical MrP reason to give up on a relationship. Lol. He is so funny..but it was also cute that he even said that.

    Wild child was texting me all day, pictures from where he lives, stuff about the world cup etc.
    I never replied. Chiefly because my resolve is to only talk if he opens everythin up and takes me to his place to met the ‘ex’. So far no word of that. So I don’t correspond with him.
    I didn’t even feel tempted. I feel very neutral about him now.

    Not a bad day! 🙂

  137.  #137Lexie on July 13, 2014 at 9:11 pm

    I have a question for Rori.
    Ok it feels embarrassing but here goes. I feel like my husband would rather masturbate than make love to me. If we are in a situation where he can’t masturbate he has to have me almost daily but the times when we are home and he wakes up with an erection or even in the middle of the day if he gets one, he suddenly has to go to the bathroom or take a shower and he doesn’t initiate after until the next time he hasn’t had the chance to be alone.

    This of course isn’t our only issue. There have been numerous problems while we were dating and since we’ve been married. He used to watch porn a lot at home on his phone until I saw it on there one day. He may still but hide it better, I don’t know.

    He was telling me how much I was his soulmate and saying he has never been so so happy with me all the while he was texting his ex saying that he’d always be there for her. She sent me all of the very descriptive messages about how he was devastated that she was getting married and how he wanted to just at least hug her once more. How he wanted to make love to her and how nobody could get to him like she does.

    I feel so betrayed still and like I don’t know how to let all this go especially with all the sexual things that make me feel inadequate with him.

    When I found all this out about his ex he begged me back for months. He said all of the soulmate stuff again and told me he would do anything to make it up to me for the rest of my life. So I came back.

    Now he’s doing the whole bathroom masturbation thing and complained last night about me being so prude about porn. I’m very exploratory in the bedroom and enjoy myself. I don’t initiate and all that leaning back stuff like I’m supposed to but I HATE HATE HATE any kind of porn and I’ve made that clear.

    I feel stuck now. I’ve moved 700 miles away with my husband and I have no job. I feel sad a lot of the time about everything that has happened and I feel myself wanting to run from him but horribly heartbroken at the thought of being without him. He tries to make me feel loved and assures me I’m all he wants but he did that while he was betraying me before.

    I feel so sad and so helpless. This is my third marriage and I’m trying my best not to run away this time but I can feel that old familiar feeling of me shutting him out and wondering why on earth I shouldn’t.

    Please Rori how do I heal this inside me? I feel so lonely and afraid.

  138.  #138Millie on July 13, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    April Rose,
    Thank you for pointing out that my feeling message was more of a judgement than a feeling message. That is really helpful. I’m always trying to remove any accusatory comment from words and make them about me while keeping an openness about other people and how they live. I guess I don’t really know how I feel. Of course, I wanted him to call. I wanted to see him. But it doesn’t feel good when the other person seems to not want that. Actions speak louder than words. I guess I have a hard time being vulnerable and expressing that I wanted to see him, when clearly that is not being reciprocated.

  139.  #139sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 1:01 am

    I still haven’t heard from G-CD and I feel sad about it now. And I know it would be the worst thing to do but I feel tempted to reach out to him and text him that it would feel so good to hear from him, but I know that this is a very bad idea and that I wouldn’t feel good.
    I don’t understand it. We had an amazing night and he texted me: it was amazing my love…, and since then nothing…

    And even if he texts me soon, I do feel disappointed that he left me hanging. Guys know that it doesn’t feel good not to hear from them, right?

    ….So I guess he doesn’t care. I might not ever hear from him again. OR he might contact me casually at some point in the future. I am sure I couldn’t hide my feelings of disappointment, maybe I would respond very cold out of protection and push him away.
    I don’t know him that well and don’t know if it would be good to tell him that I felt disappointed not hearing from him for some time or if I should keep these feelings to myself and express that it feels good to hear from him, if he texts some time this week.

  140.  #140Lexie on July 14, 2014 at 4:53 am

    My question went up in the comments in a weird place. I hope it doesn’t get overlooked

  141.  #141Linda on July 14, 2014 at 5:19 am

    Lexie.. hello. I am sorry for the situation you are dealing with in your marriage. It would feel quite unsettling for me.

    I know that Rori always reads the blog.

    There is a wonderful relationship coach that reads and comments here. Dominique. If you scroll through and find one of her comments you can click on her name and it will link you to her website. She has some very insiteful posts on you, your man and porn. She has several articles out there that have been very helpful. Check there too.

    From what you write it sounds like there are issues beyond the imparement of the intimacy with your husband. I feel you are saying that you do not occupy the place of importance and significance in his life. It would feel equally bad to me.

  142.  #142Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Thank you Kim, Linda and Azure Blu 🙂

  143.  #143Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Way to go Mandy 🙂

  144.  #144Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 5:52 am


    wildchild’s situation would have felt very icky to me. It seems like a comfort zone where they have, for want of a better word, an “open” relationship because moving out would be uncomfortable. I cannot even imagine wading through the murky waters of that situation with what I’ve been through. I feel impressed by your strength and your boundaries, and I hope you will open your heart slowly and gently to the next man.

  145.  #145Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 6:03 am


    I (now) have kind of a love affair with the emotion anger. I too grew up with a very, very angry mother and her fits of rage terrified and saddened me. I have significantly healed from this and so has she, and I have seen, through other relationships, what a profound emotion anger is.

    I truly see it as the “last frontier” when we are trying to protect our hearts. I see anger as a protective emotion. I’m not saying anger is pleasant, and it’s not easy to be in the presence of one who is very angry, but if you are able to be in its presence I believe you can learn very valuable, profound things about that person and what they are afraid of. It seems to require a combination of strength and vulnerability, the willingness to be open and vulnerable but also to have boundaries and command respect.

    Being sensitive I am still shaken (sometimes badly) by the anger of others, but I’m not afraid of it or intimidated by it any more. I have had the opportunity in my life to see very beautiful hearts behind the anger.

    I’m not saying it’s right, but for men anger is often the most easily accessible emotion, and is often masking something else. Sometimes I believe women can interpret men’s feelings when anger is expressed – that is where our skill lies, one which they usually do not have.

  146.  #146Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 6:06 am


    As Linda says, I would strongly recommend you seek advice from Dominique and her website. She specializes in these problems you are experiencing, and is a wonderful coach.

  147.  #147Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 6:24 am

    Lexie #135
    (((hugs)))) to you lovely Siren…
    You have been sooo brave and vulnerable sharing with us on Siren Island…

    “I feel so sad and so helpless.”
    This is not a good place to be…

    I’m not sure if this is what might help but
    this is what Rori says
    in one of her articles:
    “Step 1: Understand that the dynamic between you – the “Energy Exchange” –
    is completely reversed, and that it’s up to you
    to change it to the way it needs to be,
    so that HE and his energy are always coming towards YOU.

    Step 2:  Stop What Isn’t Working. 
    Step back. Turn around.
    Stop Overfunctioning.
    Strip away all your giving, “picking up the slack,”
    and Leaning Forward.
    Stop talking. Stop Discussing.
    Stop Negotiating.
    Just stop whatever you’ve been doing
    that isn’t working.

    Step 3: Be an Invitation. Open up your heart.
    Speak in Feeling Messages.

    Step 4: Process your Emotions –
    they’re going to show up inside you
    the moment you start doing step 2 and 3 –
    this is the emotional healing part!…

    Step 5: Fall in love with Yourself.
    Date Yourself. Get focused on YOU –
    even if it feels “selfish” to you.

    Step 6: Circular Date or Date Yourself.
    Take all my Tools out into the field,
    practice on every man you see and meet and
    talk to.
    This is your most powerful leveraging point
    for doing all the other steps – it will beef you up inside.

    Step 7: This is about SHIFTING YOUR OWN VIBE,
    NOT about getting him to do something.
    Thank him when he does something you like. Appreciate him no matter what.
    Loving him and allowing him to treat you poorly
    are two very different things.
    Accept him no matter what – even when he behaves badly – but DO NOT ACCEPT OR TOLERATE
    Here’s the extra thoughts: If he behaves in a way you don’t like – not calling, not being affectionate, so many other possibilities – the entire relationship dynamic has to be healed.
    You can’t heal all that by trying to get
    more affection this ONE time.
    If he’s being cold to you in bed…
    you will not get anywhere complaining.
    So – what does not tolerating 
    in this scenario look like?
    ***You could get up and go read in the living room. You could get dressed and go out, even in the middle of the night. You could just start crying right there and let him deal with it or not (he’ll likely say to be quiet, he needs to sleep if he’s a sub-par man). You could shake him and wake him and THROW HIM out of bed, saying you can’t sleep, it feels too cold, and if it’s not going to be warm and affectionate and honest (I mean, what’s up with all the coldness, anyway? you could always ask…) you’d rather sleep alone.
    You’ve got lots of options. Laying there in bed, putting your hand over his back and trying to sleep and get through it is likely your worst option – because it’s the useless one you’ve been using.
    So – if you’re already invested in a relationship and in a man, I want you to (while you’re gearing up to really Circular Date, which will give you so much new, helpful energy:
    1. Write a list of things you’re tolerating
    and accepting that don’t feel good.
    2. Now – next to, or under each item in your list – write down how you’ve been handling the item
    when it shows up, and write some NEW ways
    to handle it!
    Ways that would shake everything up.
    Be outrageous. Even if you don’t want to do
    the idea you come up with,
    if you’re scared to do it, or you don’t think it’s appropriate, or it makes you feel guilty or sad (just so you know – if you’re feeling these things when you consider doing something new around your man’s bad behavior – you might be on the brink of a fabulous breakthrough in actually seeing clearly what’s been holding you back in love…),
    write it down.
    3. Imagine/visualize what it would feel like to do those things you come up with – even the outrageous ones.
    Let yourself really feel the bravery
    and weirdness and fear that come up
    when you imagine stepping out of your “comfort zone” and responding differently in a same-old-same-old situation.
    I’d love to see your lists – so post them here if you can…and then let’s support each other to try some of these new things and report back on what happened.
    Nothing teaches an old dog new tricks like a new “whisperer” attitude from our partner.
    When we change – everything changes. Yes, we’re that powerful. You respond differently, and he’ll behave differently.
    Yes, if you’ve been clinging to a man
    who is always partway out the door, and it’s the only thing that’s keeping him with you,
    then not tolerating his bad behavior
    might release him completely out the door.
    This is always the risk you run.
    And I ask you – do you want to spend your life
    holding onto a man by the skin of your teeth?
    Or do you want a man who wants you, too
    So you can relax?”

  148.  #148Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 6:28 am

    others Sirens have mentioned Dominque’s wonderful blogs about porn…
    here’s a link to one and her web site…

  149.  #149Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 6:34 am

    sequoia #137
    Don’t forget to keep moving forward on YOUR bridge…
    Loving YOU… Feeling YOUR feelings…

    April Rose #128 you might want to read it…
    had great feeling messages earlier about just this senario…
    “I felt anxious when I didn’t hear from you. I felt triggered by my gremlins into making up stories. I don’t want to do that. I guess I was just covering up admitting how good I feel in your company and how at ease and soft my heart feels when I feel connected to you. I miss that.”

  150.  #150Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 6:37 am

    When you have had sex… such a close, warm intimate thing to share…
    In MY mind
    It can’t be too soon to practice using Feeling Messages…
    It’s for YOUR our own sake we use them…
    To take up for US
    To learn to TRUST US…
    To build our self worth!!!
    Do this FOR YOU!!!!

  151.  #151Dominique on July 14, 2014 at 9:02 am

    Linda – 131 – I think it’s possible to feel disappointment as a clean and pure feeling all by itself and not feel anger. I don’t think one necessarily means the other. I can just as easily see sadness mixed with disappointment as well.

    Just something to ponder.


  152.  #152Dominique on July 14, 2014 at 9:13 am

    Lexie – 135 – And thank you Linda 139 who expressed it very well here.

    First of all please try to know and own for yourself that your husband’s behavior has nothing to do with you, NOTHING.

    I too invite you to read anything about your man and porn as well as anything to do with relationships, both of which you will find in the archives. I’m linking the one for porn for quicker access.

    That said, I think this all goes far more deeply than porn and your man and porn or his ex for that matter.

    I would suggest bringing this all back to you, and by this I DON’T mean blaming yourself, for as I said, his behavior is NOT your fault.

    Yet he is here as an opportunity to heal some deeper, more primal issues of which you may even be unaware.

    I would love to help you in any way I can. First suggestion would be to find a job, anything where you can feel more independence and also have more options available to you.

    Love to you.


  153.  #153Dominique on July 14, 2014 at 9:22 am

    Something else I want to mention about anger. I read recently, and I believe it was here, that under anger is grief. I don’t necessarily agree with this. Under anger is inevitably fear. There are two primary emotions down to which all other emotions arise from – LOVE and FEAR. This article doesn’t really address what we’re talking about here, yet it does in a way.


  154.  #154Femininewoman on July 14, 2014 at 9:23 am

    For some reason I suspect Lexie’s situation was way deeper than just about porn

  155.  #155Miss Bells on July 14, 2014 at 9:40 am

    My birthday is on Thursday and HS bought tickets to a show and we are going out to eat first! Very different from a couple of years ago. He wanted to go to a place we both have enjoyed, but I have come to realize that I have a serious problem with many foods. It may be Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, I am slowly getting a diagnosis. But, what it means is that many many foods make me sick. This is not an allergy issue. But if I eat the wrong thing the results are debilitating.

    We almost got into it over my illness. He was coming off like “why can’t you just be normal??” I told him how I feel about having a serious disease, how cooking has been my great pleasure since I was 7 years old and now it is just a painful chore, how I am now afraid to eat anything. This changed his whole attitude. He has always been sympathetic when my face and hands swelled to double size. Now he knows this is serious.

  156.  #156Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 9:43 am

    Ahhh, lovely siren,,, this has been true for me…

    Yes… Fear is what I have found underneath MY anger
    Finding this has been my healing
    while I continue to work out my extreme anger… which I have grappled with for a lifetime…
    Thanks to You and Rori’s tools
    I am slowly loving MY fear
    Loving MY anger…
    It is a wonderful, soft, warm healing

  157.  #157Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 9:48 am

    I feel that is what I want to do today…
    Because I hate my anger…
    She has been soo cruel
    She has been sooo distructive to my life
    kept LOVE away
    soooo overwhelming
    and controlling
    I am very sad and I am crying…
    seeing all the ways I have let her
    sabatoge my life.

  158.  #158Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Dominique 151,

    “Under anger is inevitably fear.”

    I agree with this very strongly.


  159.  #159Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Miss Bells,

    You won’t believe it, but I was just wondering today how you were and here you are commenting.

    D is not well at all at the moment. He went for tests at the hospital on Friday and he’s got a couple of not-nice things going on in his system.

    So I just wanted to offer some hugs just in general about illness (((hugs)))

  160.  #160Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Azure Blu 155

    “Because I hate my anger…
    She has been soo cruel
    She has been sooo distructive to my life”

    Are you sure? Anger is an emotion which tries sometimes in its misguided way to protect us. The surge of energy that accompanies it is sometimes a bit scary, but if you look deeper, can you find the protective element?

  161.  #161Labbit on July 14, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Today I feel AHHH! I don’t know what the exact word is to describe how I’m feeling. I’m trying something new with a CD. For awhile I was rowing the boat with him (oops) and then I got angry with him (oops again) and neither of those worked. It succeeded in getting him interested again but of course I couldn’t tell if he really liked me. He had been calling or texting me everyday for about a month but recently the pace has been slowing down. I am backing off and dropping the ball. Trying to give him the space to figure out what he really wants, while I live my life and take care of myself the best way I know how. This feels so hard and also so fun! I’ll call him SalesCD, he is a very upbeat, active guy with a great smile that might just be giving me crumbs. I can’t tell yet.

    I like not having the anger or resentment of picking up the oars and rowing, or the heaviness of holding the ball. I do wish something would happen though!! I feel excited for whatever surprise may come from this…I also feel on-edge. It feels so weird backing off and doing nothing. I like it…and I also don’t like it. I hope I’m making sense.

  162.  #162sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Thank you Azur Blu

    I had the most painful period pain episode today. I do not take painkillers as I want to heal if from the source, feeling the feelings that created this pain, but I feel sooo challenged by it. Feeling so overpowered, afraid that I can not handle the pain. It scares me how my body reacts, the intense sweating, then feeling cold, continues throwing up etc.
    Today while I had intense abdominal pain my hands started to tingly and at some point I couldn’t move my fingers anymore, it felt very scary and I felt so helpless. Once I surrendered into the pain telling myself that I can feel all this again and again and with breathing the pain shifted…

    Its one of my biggest challenges – this period pain. I have never been raped and I can’t remember being sexually abused but this pain seems also to be related to sexual shame.

    I noticed that the few times when I allowed myself to experience uncommitted sex my period pain was much more intense and the most intense today after the experience with the CD on friday.

    I guess my body is telling me that my actions are not in harmony with my highest good here and after that
    experience today I do feel less excited about my interaction with G-CD.

  163.  #163Kim on July 14, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Oh hes, anger. Under anger are a lot of things, also for me disappointment, sadness. First anger and then the feelings,mthe true feelings.
    So wildchild keeps contacting me, but just more bla.
    I knew he would find a reason not to resolve the situation, very predictable he said she is a ‘crazy Brazilian’…and I guess that means she must be placated and must not find out that he was dating.
    LOL. As if that would convince me that all is well.
    Sounds to me like a lazy married man who doesn’t want to get divorced because he likes his house. Lmao.
    No thank you.

  164.  #164Dominique on July 14, 2014 at 11:16 am

    sequoia – 160 Though I feel sorry you’re experiencing so much pain, I feel thrilled you uncovered something so important about yourself. You now have something tangible to work with.

    It’s also possible you have some hormonal imbalances. Have you explored some natural remedies to help rebalance?

    If you’re under 40, evening primrose oil in capsule form is amazing for this.

    If over forty, black cohosh is wonderful.

    Dong quai is another to try though this needs to be taken with ginseng.

    Also motherwort is a wonderful and very gentle, subtle balancer including moods and can be taken at anytime, whenever it’s needed, several times a day for weeks, even months on end, with no side effects. It’s good for all ages, and can also be taken in conjunction with any of the above.


  165.  #165Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Sequoia #160…
    When I was in my late 20s I developed extreme abdominal pain with my periods…

    I went from Dr. to Dr. trying to find out what was wrong…
    Finally a resident mentioned that it could be endometriosis (this was way before much was even known about it)
    I had a laperoscopi and had a tumor like thing the size of a grapefruit from menstrual bleeding outside of the place it’s supposed to be…

    Have you consulted with a Dr. about this?

    They did a radical removal of my left ovaries and falopian tube and only a third of my ovaries on the right side remains!!!
    It was radical ’cause usually they would have given me a hysterectomy but because I had not had any children they tried this…
    I am SOOO blessed… I got pregnant 4 times and have 2 children!!!

  166.  #166Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 11:26 am

    PS… Pain with my period went away and
    I haven’t even experienced ANY of the menapausal symptoms all my friends talk about!!! I’m 62

  167.  #167Azure Blu on July 14, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Thank you lovely siren,
    I’m going to take a look at this…

  168.  #168Sophie on July 14, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Hello blog, Hello Sirens,

    So many great conversations going on I don’t know where I want to jump in…

    My sleep is all messed up so I’m feeling vulnerable. Vulnerable often feels like I want to curl up in someone’s lap. A momentary safe space. That has been loss for me; the discovery as I aged that no-one but me could care for me; there was no real safe space anymore. I guess, sometimes I look to men to provide that for me…but no-one can, can they? Only fleetingly at least.

    I don’t function well with imbalance. I have been working non-stop which is great because I need the money, and great because I enjoy the work, and great to get new clients but I have felt overwhelmed and I feel agitated about the quality of work I produce when I feel tired and rushed. I am awaiting feedback. I feel anxious.

    I felt resentful at B all weekend as my ‘to do’ list mounts and he does nothing to help but I knew it was pointless and fruitless so I kept trying to distract from the feelings. I didn’t engage with him. I am still just keeping myself to myself. I do not want an argument about anything and I do not feel compassionately towards him now. My focus is on me.

    The conversation about anger feels interesting. I feel fascinated by anger. I can be a very angry person and I have poor self-regulation – both symptoms of trauma. I know underlying my rage is usually grief, shame and yes, Dominique, ultimately fear. Anger, however, is different. Anger is a viable emotion is it not? Anger can often be a catalyst for transformation – if anger is always stifled then nothing gets changed? I have found the world to be slightly divided into those who do anger and those who don’t. I always wondered if I lived in a different culture whether anger would be more accepted – anger is also passion. Uncontrollable rage, attacks on another person, being consumed by anger, taking anger out on others, using anger to bully or control, none of that is acceptable to me and I work very hard to change any aspects of those parts of myself. However, as Indigo says to April Rose, it hasn’t always been my enemy. Anger has spurred me to perform great acts of bravery often in the service of others. And I have had jobs in social care where it was necessary to know that anger in others is just anger and honour it as such.

    All of that said, I do not want to date an angry man. I can understand anger and I can contain it but I don’t want to. And, forevermore, I choose not to. And Linda, I did know where you were coming from. The disappointment thing. If someone is being disappointed ‘in me’. that is a shaming technique and I will not take it on board. That is their stuff – an attempt at control. However, if for example a friend feels disappointed as I couldn’t keep an engagement, that’s an emotion and not meant to harm. This is where I see the difference I think.

    Your weekend sounds lovely Indigo

    Millie – I feel so happy to hear the awareness you have constantly developing around these men and what it is you really want and your bottom lines. Your growth is an inspiration I salute you.

    Kim – look at you though? Weren’t your instincts spot on – red flagged…:)

    Azure Blu – what a wonderful story about your children 🙂 and thank you for your comment re. the last blog I agree I believe I am shifting towards having better men show up in my life. I am just not interested in the old dramas.

    Sequoia – I have heard Abdominal-sacral Massage can be healing too

  169.  #169Sophie on July 14, 2014 at 2:05 pm

    I feel so tired my writing is weary. I forgot all the positive stuff!

    1: My best friend declared me the Godmother of her beautiful four year old son who I love with all my heart. I feel honoured and cherished and may our relationship continue to be special and fun.

    2: Okay so B does no stepping up whatsoever but I surrounded by people offering to help me get my house together and to help me with the situation with him.

    3: When I really really really really needed the money more work came flooding in

    4: I am building a portfolio of clients I am proud of

    5. I am tired today, but in general I feel more confident with my business negotiations and the quality of my work

    6. I have options and my dreams really are on the horizon!

    7. Portuguese man has become my facebook penpal 🙂 That feels nice for now.

    8. I wanted to see my friend of old, it’s on my vision board, but had no money to travel. Now, another friend is paying for me to go as she needs a favour done in that city.

    I do feel blessed. I really do. I know that I am blessed.

  170.  #170Linda on July 14, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Anger is quite certainly a very legitimate feeling. Under it more than what I considered. Fear yes I fully see that, but fear of what I wonder.

    Disappointment is a clean emotion and clearly there are lots of causes for it. I have felt disappointment intensely and had no anger associated it with it.

    The lines of definition of the two things got really blurry and fuzzy for me when I was seeing P. He would use the word disappointed and it was followed with the same type of behavior as when he would say he was angry. I was routinely dealing with something that he was upset or disappointed with me about. Anger or disappointment, I don’t know.. either way it served to create this bad energy that destroyed my desire to be in the relationship and my attraction to his wonderful qualities went with it.

    I grew thru experiencing this. I am not the same and a work in progress.

  171.  #171Dominique on July 14, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Sophie – Absolutely anger is a viable emotion. ALL emotions are viable, to be acknowledged, sunk into which allows them space to move on through you, to not remain stuck within you.

    To whittle an emotion down to one of the two, love or fear does not mean to stifle or ignore. Your feelings have many layers, just as you do.

    To feel your anger while knowing that underneath it lies a fear of some kind can provide comfort and also a direction for you. Instead of lashing out without understanding the why underneath which can cause harm and most importantly to you, you can direct the anger towards something maybe more productive for you.

    Anger can also be expressed calmly, and this isn’t stifling it. It’s giving it a way to be heard.

    And yes anger can be a catalyst to spur you on to do things, change things you might not have otherwise.

    Loving your thankfulness list. 🙂


  172.  #172Sophie on July 14, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    Yes, Linda. I feel sad that that was your experience. To me it feels controlling – but maybe because it reminds me of an angry parent ‘I am so disappointed in you’ I am so angry with you’. Really those are attacks against personhood rather than behaviours and really there’s no justification in anger or disappointments in behaviours unless it is reasonable. Being angry and disappointed in someone’s behaviour just because it doesn’t meet your expectation isn’t really reasonable. It is so the other person’s stuff but how sad when it becomes projected as though it’s your or mine or whoever’s stuff. Hopefully, one day he will be able to do some healing so that his anger isn’t so destructive.

  173.  #173sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    thank you Dominique and Azur Blu.
    I have this pain since my period first started,
    and I used to take pain killers for years.
    Have been to the doctors to check and things are ok.
    I truly believe this is based on emotional issues, esp.
    stuff my mother has dumped on me and stuff I have picked up from her and than my own.
    Have tried sooo many things already but its still there.
    I believe that if I can get in touch with the core emotional wounds that create this pain in my body it can be gone forever.
    I have to stop taking painkillers so and be open to feel the uncomfortable feelings that come up with it, feels scary.

    I was wondering how can I explore my sexual shame issues, I am not really that aware of them.
    Sexual Shame is a difficult emotion for me to grasp.
    Do you sirens know of any good books on it or anything else related to sexual shame?

  174.  #174sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    and thank you Sophie.
    Yes sacred abdominal massage might help and steer up some emotional stuff to feel around it. thank you will look out for it.

  175.  #175Linda on July 14, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    Sophie. Oh my! You got it. I really feel heard .Shaming, scolded, controlled… YES! I did feel exactly those things.

    You know…I just want to say to you ladies that I feel sooo grateful for your support. I will read a comment or thought from one/several of you and Bam! Gray fuzzy swirly ping-pong thoughts and emotions in me get transformed instantly into defined directive wellness.

    I am still repeating the phrase FW gave me… “honor the woman who made the decision , looking out for herself” It is like a plumbline for me now.

    I am blessed.

  176.  #176Sophie on July 14, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    169 – anger as being a viable emotion was more about a curiosity I have had within society – I wonder, however, whether it’s actually any display of raw emotion that seems to be shunned and not just anger

    Recognizing the fear beneath the anger (and grief – was it you that said grief) has been a huge part of my journey. I used to simmer with rage constantly I was so defended by anger. It took about five years of therapy (twice weekly) before I could cry and hence begin to touch that grief. And now I cry and cry and cry all the time at the littlest thing. It feels much nicer than the anger. The anger really isn’t there so much anymore – when I feel threatened that’s when I react the most.

    But yes, i am reaching for that place of power where I can express my anger so that it can be heard. I touch upon it sometimes.

  177.  #177sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Azur Blu
    thank you for sharing. I am happy for you that you still got blessed with your children.

  178.  #178Linda on July 14, 2014 at 2:56 pm


    Oh my! You got it. I really feel heard .Shaming, scolded, controlled… YES! I did feel exactly those things.

    You know…My heart feels bursting and full…I just want to say to you ladies that I feel so grateful for your support. I will read a comment or thought from one/several of you then boom! Gray fuzzy swirly ping-pong thoughts and emotions in me get transformed instantly into defined understandable clarity and then a sense of wellness comes.

    I am still repeating the phrase FW gave me… “honor the woman who made the decision , looking out for herself” This is a plumb line for me now.

    I am thankful and feel blessed

  179.  #179Linda on July 14, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    hmmm. My comments are going to moderation now. I will take a break and eat some dinner.

  180.  #180sequoia on July 14, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    G-CD texted that he would like to visit me when he is back. I went to his the first time after dinner and I feel a bit uneasy with him coming to my place as we could easily end up in bed. I’d rather go on a walk with him at a beautiful place in nature.
    I have hinted before, that it would feel better, but he didn’t respond.
    However if I suggest it again I would be in my masculin energy.

    It would feel good if you could pick me up and we could drive into nature for a walk? What do you think?

  181.  #181Sophie on July 14, 2014 at 3:04 pm

    It would feel great to see you. I’d love to go somewhere beautiful for a walk! What do you think?

  182.  #182nyx on July 14, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    @ Kim

    You’re a lovely person and you’re handling all this beautifully 🙂 You are proving yourself wise.

    I’m so happy you got a break from it with someone who showed care for you- hope you felt appreciated and valuable and caressed.

    Now time to go out and smile to quality men 😉 You seem like such a radiant person.

  183.  #183Waterfall on July 14, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    It lovely getting back on the blog again. Nice to see Kim, who if I’m right in thinking used to be Tam? How are you?

    Well, I feel like I am going through an incredible stress at the moment. I finally ‘finished’ with the man in my life. (For those who don’t know I’ve been in an exclusive relationship for just over a year)

    He is a lovely man in soooo many ways, and in my heart I do love him. But he drives me crazy. He is sooo hot headed, defensive and hard to reason with. A true stuborn bull.

    I’ve told him that I can’t take anymore and that I still do care for him but I can only offer friendship.

    He is devasted.

    He is devasted to the point where he is emailing and texting me constantly. If I hadn’t told him not to he would be on my doorstep.

    He is in complete panic meltdown and it is torture to watch.

    Dispite everything I DO love him. I would love it to work between us. I feel there just needs to be a shift.

    I actually feel so confused.

    Its so hard for me because I know he would do anything for me, I miss him chronically. I know if I asked for something he would get it for me.

    I am still physically attracted to him. I still feel hope.

    But I think its more that I feel guilty…

    He keeps asking me how he can make me happy, what he needs to do to change, etc, etc… It scares me. I feel scared to leave him – he seems so distressed.

    Believe me men don’t normally affect me this way.. I normally have REALLY strong barriers… What is wrong with me this time??

    I don’t want him in my life but I can’t seem to say ‘no’ to him. Maybe I am scared of his reaction – I think I am…

    He is constantly trying to emotionally manipulate me.

    In truth I would love it if he met another woman and left me on my own…

    I feel so panicked and stressed…

  184.  #184Waterfall on July 14, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    It lovely getting back on the blog again. Nice to see Kim, who if I’m right in thinking used to be Tam? How are you?

    Well, I feel like I am going through an incredible stress at the moment. I finally ‘finished’ with the man in my life. (For those who don’t know I’ve been in an exclusive relationship for just over a year)

    He is a lovely man in soooo many ways, and in my heart I do love him. But he drives me crazy. He is sooo hot headed, defensive and hard to reason with. A true stuborn bull.

    I’ve told him that I can’t take anymore and that I still do care for him but I can only offer friendship.

    He is devasted.

    He is devasted to the point where he is emailing and texting me constantly. If I hadn’t told him not to he would be on my doorstep.

    He is in complete panic meltdown and it is torture to watch.

    Dispite everything I DO love him. I would love it to work between us. I feel there just needs to be a shift.

    I actually feel so confused.

    Its so hard for me because I know he would do anything for me, I miss him chronically. I know if I asked for something he would get it for me.

    I am still physically attracted to him. I still feel hope.

    But I think its more that I feel guilty…

    He keeps asking me how he can make me happy, what he needs to do to change, etc, etc… It scares me. I feel scared to leave him – he seems so distressed.

    Believe me men don’t normally affect me this way.. I normally have REALLY strong barriers… What is wrong with me this time??

    I don’t want him in my life but I can’t seem to say ‘no’ to him. Maybe I am scared of his reaction – I think I am…

    He is constantly trying to emotionally manipulate me.

    In truth I would love it if he met another woman and left me on my own…

    I feel so panicked and stressed…

  185.  #185nyx on July 14, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    @ Lexie

    A job. Nothing is more important for now. You will feel less “helpless” and get more financial freedom, you will see yourself in a new role, you will meet and interact with new people and you will give your man a chance to miss you.
    It will change your mood and vibe radically.

    Thanks for being brave and sharing with us.

  186.  #186Kim on July 14, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    Awww Nyx, thank you so much! I feel all glowy reading this 🙂

    Wild child is still contacting me, but the more I hear the more pukey i feel. Turns out he had a financial advantage for staying there, and she helped him out when he had stuff happening. Then, when he made good money, instead of pitching in a bit more, he shared everything half/half. So she rescued him, let him use her car and had no benefit….the girl paid to date him basically.

    I think I want to send her a Rori book. I feel so sad for her.
    I am thinking, of course now he doesn’t want to take me there and upset her, totally get it. I would ‘t want to upset my saviour either.

    I am so happy I agreed to learn more as it has totally turned me off the guy now.
    He would have to change his MO by 360 degrees to even have another date with me.
    He is really pissed and keeps saying I am uptight and probably damaged from other guys previously. Lmao. Uh humm, well he knew he was onto a good thing and that he messed up 🙂
    Anyhow..onwards and upwards!

  187.  #187sheryl on July 14, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    left a comment on July 11 or 12, but can’t find it now. Is it still in moderation?

  188.  #188Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 11:35 pm


    It always boggles my mind when guys react to you setting a simple boundary with comments like you are too uptight or damaged. I suppose it’s because they feel some kind of a negative spotlight on themselves, and they are trying to assert their position, but it’s interesting.

    Interesting about the ex. Gosh, no thanks 🙂

  189.  #189Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 11:41 pm


    Interesting comment about anger. In my life, one of the lessons which has come up over and over again is reconciling myself with other people’s anger. It’s shown up less and less the more I can see that their anger is not about me.

    I agree that society is uncomfortable with expressions of raw emotion. I think society is uncomfortable with authentic emotion generally. Which is why I think it’s so important to find ways to engage with your own emotion and keep at it, because so many others have become numb in some ways.

  190.  #190Indigo on July 14, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    I feel bored and uninspired by J. He called on Thursday to chat and mentioned setting something up for this coming weekend. And then today he chatted with me a bit on Facebook chat. And just as I was telling him about how we climbed to the highest peak of the mountains over the weekend, he logged off. Meh. It just feels as if I couldn’t be bothered.

    What do you sirens think? It just feels like it’s going to be more of the same with this guy, uninspiring. I feel a bit like I’m past that.

  191.  #191Sophie on July 15, 2014 at 12:00 am

    Yes Indigo 🙂 that’s what I was thinking as I was going to sleep…getting comfortable with expressing authentic emotion is powerful xx

  192.  #192Femininewoman on July 15, 2014 at 2:49 am

    Indigo he might have become bored with what you were talking about. Maybe that story was better saved for your girlfriends? What do you think?

  193.  #193Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 3:00 am

    Feminine Woman,

    He just messaged me to say that his boss walked in right then which is why he logged off, and asked if he could call tonight.

    Bored with my story of feeling accomplished because I climbed to the highest peak? Are you serious? He asked about my weekend. Is it my job to provide witty stories he finds interesting? What on earth else would I talk about if not the things I’ve experienced which excite me?

  194.  #194April Rose on July 15, 2014 at 3:50 am

    Hey Indigo,

    I just had a thought. Maybe saving your best most precious stories for in-person, would give you an inner feeling of excitement and higher value.

    As in “I feel great about an adventure I had, and can’t wait to share it with you over a coffee or a walk…”

  195.  #195sequoia on July 15, 2014 at 4:18 am

    thank you Sophie #177. I will text him that 🙂

    #180 Kim
    what you are writing about this man sounds so similar to a guy I had an imaginary relationship with.
    When he met me he moved out of her place, she had rescued him too and even so he had an income he never paid rent!, she bought him his clothes, cooked for him,…
    He kept in touch with her, to ‘help’ her and ‘be there’ for her as she went through a tough time with the break-up and as he ‘still loved her as a human’, but wasn’t sexually attracted to her at all.

    Apparently he had told her that he met me, but it turned out later that he haden’t, only much later.
    After some time they started meeting for sport-activities again – I couden’t believe it and started dating again at that point, but it was very challenging for me.

    The ex was a constant source of argument in our connection, she was more important to him than I was to him and when she had met another man he realised that he still loved her after all and wanted to be with her again!!! This was the end, but it should’t have even started. If I would have sent him off, telling him to come back when he sorted out this thing with his ex and if I would have kept dating, I am pretty sure I would have never experienced all this unnecessary heartache.

    I couldn’t support him and would never have supported him in the way she did and he realised that. He chose comfort and I don’t know if they are back together, but very possible they are.

  196.  #196sequoia on July 15, 2014 at 4:24 am

    I have remembered some activities that might bring up sexual shame issues:
    -Pole-dance classes (Rori metnioned them before)
    -Hula hoop dance, not so much as Pole -dance so

    any other ideas?

  197.  #197Linda on July 15, 2014 at 4:31 am

    My comments from yesterday are still in moderation.
    Dont know if this one will post.

    ANGER/RAGE… well I do feel it

    I encountered a driver on the road this morning on my way to work that was going under 5 under the speed limit. When I came up behind them and followed in behind I noticed they reduced their speed 5 more. I decided to pass when it was clear (rural 2 lane road). When I did attempted they sped up to block me so I couldn’t !!! So… It WAS on purpose as I suspected. OK !! so I followed right in behind yes (tailgated) them then and layed on the horn for a long time. That driver whomever they were at 5:40 AM in the morning felt intitled to own/control the road. GAMES!

    Yes it triggered me big time. It enraged me! Yes I know it is relatively a insignificant thing, but it feels huge to me this morning !! I know this is bigger than this car thing. It triggers so much anger I have toward P. He felt intitled too. He drove that way but this is not about his driving. It is about how he treated me… A Relationship with someone does NOT give you the right to control them. . Memories of stuff that happened between us are just popping up all over the place this morning. The further away from it I get the more I see how much subtle manipulation there was and the more angry I feel. WHO does he think he is anyway? Oh I feel indignent and PO’d…..

    Just because we were trying to be in a relationship did not mean you get to dictate to me or manipulate me with your passivie aggressive dissapproval ….. Just because you are in front of me on the road … does not mean you own it or give you the right to drive like that …. !!!

    Wow feeling this rage..I’ work. Its a good thing I am working alone today.

  198.  #198Kim on July 15, 2014 at 5:02 am

    Wow Sequoia..what a story!! Eek, that must have felt terrible!!
    Oh the things we do for love.
    This could have been very well the scenario being outplayed here, had I given him a chance now. Hence I will not.
    He told me the reason why that relationship never took off was that she was still married….so another red flag, he chose an unavailable woman, and I guess the perks were worth it.
    Seriously, knkwing what I know now, I would be inviting way too much drama into my life because they are clearly still attached, else he wouldn’t have needed to keep a secret and to still keep me a secret from her.
    Big red, purple flags.
    All that just because he is a bit cute?
    He is still trying to find his feet with work and life at nearly 40, and the last thing i need is a man that needs sponsoring as well as everything else…

  199.  #199Kim on July 15, 2014 at 5:08 am

    Indigo, this is so true. I have only evdr heard men accuse me of something when they messed up (cheating or lying or whatever else), when they were actually the ones with the problems/damage.
    Trying to deflect their bullshit by saying they didn’t do anything wrong, and I am the one who is in the wrong.
    We were texting yesterday, and he twisted the whole story telling me I should be grateful that he told me the truth.,,as he wanted me to trust him.
    Si funny. Grateful? Truth? He edited his whole life story, and told me he came here alone, etc and the only reason he told me was because I was asking about his living situation, we were moving towards relationship, and he knew hecouldn’t keep it a secret any longer – his friends told me they asked him to tell me….saying that I desere to know and that I will be angry when I find out after months.
    He twisted it all to make himself look good, saying he could have kept it a secret from me for longer.
    Piece of work.
    I even told him right in the beginning, that I was in a couple of relationships where the ex attachments messed it all up and it is the one thing i am allergic against…and he listened to all that thinking ‘oh, must keep my big secret, else I will never get her into bed’
    I was not born

  200.  #200Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:11 am

    I hope D will be ok and get well soon!

  201.  #201Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 5:15 am

    :/ Kim

    I feel proud of your instincts though.

  202.  #202Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 5:16 am

    Thank you Azure Blu sweet lady xxx

    I have been through this with him many times now, health scares, and I always just try and hold the sacred healing space for him.

  203.  #203Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:18 am

    Wow… on top of EVERYTHING… She is married???
    It’s sooo interesting to see the drama in others lives…
    It makes my life feel soooo peaceful, warm and lovely!!! :->

    Beautiful YOU!!! Holding your boundaries and riding your horse into YOUR BRIGHT future…
    hugs and kisses!!!

  204.  #204Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:23 am

    Yay… Feel THAT anger!!!
    I love how you saw where your ANGER was coming from!
    I’m sure you know this and Dominique said… that’s where the healing can begin

  205.  #205Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:27 am

    Also practicing a strip tease dance… there are some good ones on Youtube…

    Very interesting about, shame and MY sexuality…
    I didn’t think I have it BUT
    my mother was/is extremely negative about sexuality when I was growing up…
    It must have some effects on me…

    Thank you lovely siren,
    for bringing this up… I’m going to explore this more in me and see what comes up…

  206.  #206Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:30 am

    Mmmmm… my last post to sequoia went into moderation… wonder why sooo many posts are going there? I’ll try again…

    Also practicing a strip tease dance… there are some good ones on Youtube…

    Very interesting about, shame and MY sexuality…
    I didn’t think I have it BUT
    my mother was/is extremely negative about se??uality when I was growing up…
    It must have some effects on me…

    Thank you lovely siren,
    for bringing this up… I’m going to explore this more in me and see what comes up

  207.  #207Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 5:30 am

    Thank you April Rose for your sweet suggestion.

    The honest truth of the matter is that I would rather be alone than have to watch myself before telling a story about something like that for fear of “boring” him or whatever the case may be. I’m sorry but if he asks about my weekend that is what he is going to get, and anything that says I have to walk on eggshells about something like that can move swiftly along.

    Sometimes I come close to not wanting to share my stories here on the blog because some of the assumptions and feedback here hurts me. (I’m not talking about you here April Rose) Something for me to think about perhaps.

    Love to you April Rose, thank you for your sweet post.

  208.  #208Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 5:30 am

    Mmmm… my last 2 posts ended up in moderation…

  209.  #209CurvySiren10 on July 15, 2014 at 5:38 am

    Indigo~~186 and 198.

    Amen! I totally agree with you. No eggshells and OMG…being concerned about “boring” a man who is allegedly interested in your life with such a beautiful, inspiring account of your weekend away??? …Geez!! No thanks! I love hearing that you “get” this and hold yourself in high esteem, understanding how NOT boring your adventures are. 🙂

  210.  #210Femininewoman on July 15, 2014 at 5:46 am

    Indigo – Sometimes I come close to not wanting to share my stories here on the blog because some of the assumptions and feedback here hurts me.

    Indigo it was not an assumption on my part. It was just a thought that crossed my mind and I decided to share it. Sorry if I offended you. I am just the type who like to look at all angles and sometimes my mind naturally make up stories. For me I like to be abe to sense or be clued in to people’s feelings, especially boredom because that is my clue to move it right along.

    As I said it was just a thought and happily J clarified what was going on with him.

  211.  #211Femininewoman on July 15, 2014 at 5:52 am

    Linda I love that story. I really feel you in it. It reminded me how easy it is for us to project our feelings from one scenario to another when we stuff them down. They always find a way to pop right back up. Our rage can be such a teacher.

  212.  #212April Rose on July 15, 2014 at 5:58 am


    I wasn’t refering to any suggestion of boring a man when I had my idea.

    I wrote it in response to my perception of you and I writing out or texting about our precious lives.

    I just felt it would give us added juice, to say to a man who asked in writing what we had been up to, to reply “Wouldn’t you like to know? And you will, as soon as we see each other” (Written with a light and happy vibe, and an inner wink!)

    Please tell me you can see what I mean! I didn’t want this sweet post (as you put it) to get mixed up in any triggers.

  213.  #213Femininewoman on July 15, 2014 at 6:02 am

    Kim for me I would agree with him. I would tell him that yes I am grateful he shared the story with me because he confirmed what my intuition was telling me. That something felt off and he helped me dodge a bullet and some drama that I don’t want in my life. So yeah thank you for your honesty and I love me and my life the way it was before you arrived. He give you reason to believe in yourself and trust yourself.

    He literally showed you that you can trust yourself before you can trust anyone else.

  214.  #214Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 6:31 am

    Thank you CurvySiren, as always you make me feel got 🙂 x

  215.  #215Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 6:33 am

    Feminine Woman,

    Thank you for clearing that up. I had thought you meant that my story about the mountain was boring, and I found that hurtful. But I see what you are saying now.

  216.  #216Indigo on July 15, 2014 at 6:35 am

    April Rose,

    I do see what you are saying, I really really do. And I really really do prefer telling stories and talking about things in person, as you suggest, because it has so much more nuance and depth and authenticity.

    Honestly the story about the mountain just tumbled out, like an enthusiastic little girl who wanted to share it with someone.

    But thank you, I always appreciate your sweet gentle vibe here!


  217.  #217Femininewoman on July 15, 2014 at 6:44 am

    Indigo thanks for the lesson that my words are powerful and that I can also pause before sharing to make my words even more powerful.

    Re 207 It reminds me about telling passion stories. I love April Rose’s suggestion.

  218.  #218Kim on July 15, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Hey, that’s a great spin on it FW. I like that 🙂

  219.  #219Kim on July 15, 2014 at 7:27 am

    Azure Blu, yeah, right?
    It’s so ironic because when we met I made two things clear. One was that I am nkt into complications and drama personalities, and the other that I am not going to date a guy who is still attached overly to an ex.
    Of course he agreed with everything LMAO.
    It’s actually really hilarious now.
    He must have thought ‘ooops’….super funny.
    I feel amused now.

  220.  #220Kim on July 15, 2014 at 7:28 am

    I also think that is one of the reasons why he didn’t say anything….eh, who cares.

  221.  #221Mel on July 15, 2014 at 9:14 am


    (From last thread Re: “crashing at his place”)

    I would feel yucky and uneasy at that suggestion as well.

    This situation brought up so many visuals for me… I thought I might share how I may have chose to respond:

    Ooooh, “crashing” feels so unsafe. Like an airplane with a broken wing or a failing engine. I feel anxious and turned-off at the thought. “Landing” softly would feel so much better. Like a butterfly fluttering onto a fingertip and being protectively cupped by the hand. I feel free to flutter off and return again should my admirer provide the trust and security I require.


  222.  #222Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 10:50 am

    FW #206…
    I like this… for Kim

  223.  #223April Rose on July 15, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    Hi Mel! 🙂

  224.  #224Daria on July 15, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    feeling so healthily strong today

    i feel so greatful for my healing!!

  225.  #225Daria on July 15, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    thanks Daria for answering some POF messages!

  226.  #226Daria on July 15, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    yay and again!

  227.  #227Labbit on July 15, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    I feel numb today. Soupy. Foggy. Timid.

    Had an impromptu date with TenderCD — we ran into each other getting off the train and he invited me out for a drink. After our drinks it was pouring! Neither of us had umbrellas and he lives nearby so we went to his apartment so I could wait out the rain.

    We ended up talking about the last time we dated and what exactly caused us to get disconnected. It was a beautiful conversation filled with feeling messages from both of us. I can’t remember exactly what was said and I don’t think it really matters beyond the openness and connection I felt between us. We kissed for awhile and then he walked me to the train.

    On the way to the train I noticed him getting sadder and sadder. Challenging moments for me! I went into the RR dance position as best I could while we were walking — I loved myself, I loved him, I accepted him just as he was even though it was really, really hard and I just wanted to fix it! When we got to station he said something “I don’t want to lead you on, I want to take things slow this time around. I don’t want to make the same mistakes.” He pulled away a bit physically as he said this and I made the mistake of leaning forward, I couldn’t help myself. When my train came he kissed me on the cheek.

    I felt confused! I got into my brain…his words are confusing to me. He doesn’t want to lead me on…? That sounded strange. Friendly rather than romantic. He doesn’t want to make the same mistakes, he wants to take it slow…that sounds like respect and attraction. He texted me asking to text when I got home, so I did. Then he called and apologized for being sad at the end — I told him that I felt touched by how honest he was in showing me his sadness, and thanked him for letting see that. Today he’s been chatty non-stop. Still pursuing me, so I guess it was just a weird choice of words when he said he didn’t want to lead me on?

    I can’t figure this out. I shouldn’t be trying to figure this out!!! I am trying to drop into my body, to slather myself in yummy compassion and love me. It’s not easy today. I feel nervous. I don’t like feeling fear. I want to feel love.

  228.  #228Millie on July 15, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    Mel! I really love your response! It is so full of feeling and visualness. I realize I am terrible at feelings messages and communication!

  229.  #229Labbit on July 15, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    I feel sad. I am crying. I don’t want to be his friend. I want to be his romance. I feel worried that I’m not enough.

  230.  #230Millie on July 15, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Ladies, something terrible had happened. Unrequited love has struck again! I was chatting with Mechanic last night and realized I love him. He’s the one I want to share my day with, everyday, he’s the one I want to share everything that happens in my life with. I know this is not good. This intense longing I feel. I thought I was past him, and allowed him back into my life after a month or so of not talking. He must sense how I feel, but has continued to be a friend. There’s really no advice to be given here. I just know I must really try to put space Btwn him, even though it’s hard. I must think of what I want big picture rather instant gratification (talking to him.)
    Old habits die hard, but I must fight them even harder.

  231.  #231April Rose on July 15, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Millie re 136

    ” But it doesn’t feel good when the other person seems to not want that. Actions speak louder than words. I guess I have a hard time being vulnerable and expressing that I wanted to see him, when clearly that is not being reciprocated.”

    I totally feel you on this one.

    I pondered it overnight and came up witht the thought that we should assume that ALL men want to see us ALL the time! Ha! If they do not make plans to do so, we should simply imagine that the poor, adorable things have been knocked unconscious with amnesia.

    What does that mean for us? We don’t get in any man’s business. We simply adopt plan B, then C then plan D etc. towards our own happiness.

  232.  #232April Rose on July 15, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Oh Millie, I just read 221


  233.  #233Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Ahhhh… such lovely feeling messages…
    so soft when speaking of a butterfly being safely cupped for protection…
    I want to keep practicing and reading what others share about their feeling messages
    so I can get better… they are such powerful connection and intimacy builders

  234.  #234Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    I could be wrong… but it sounds to me like he REALLY wants a romantic relationship with you to work this time…
    That’s why he says “I don’t want to make the same mistakes” Let’s take it slow…”
    In my mind…
    you are sooo right… Not yours to figure out…
    How do YOU feel in his pesence…
    that’s what RR says you need to know…

  235.  #235Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    Also practicing a str???p t%#se dance… there are some good ones on Youtube…

    Very interesting about, shame and MY se??uality…
    I didn’t think I have it BUT
    my mother was/is extremely negative about se??uality when I was growing up…
    It must have some effects on me…

    Thank you lovely siren,
    for bringing this up… I’m going to explore this more in me and see what comes up

  236.  #236Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Mmmmm… I have tried to give a response to sequoias
    comment about shame and se??uality and keeps going to moderation…
    I’ll give it a rest… ;-/

  237.  #237Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    (((Millie))) 223

  238.  #238Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Yay Daria,
    Staying on your horse and riding forward!!!

  239.  #239Millie on July 15, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Labbit, I totally agree with Azure!!

    April Rose-haha! Perhaps he was stricken with amnesia, as nice a thought as that would be, it feels unrealistic to me. While I have no clue what his reality is, mine is, he’s not in front of me. So regardless of how I feel about it, it’s reality. I agree with you about plan b, c, d towards our own happiness.

  240.  #240Mel on July 15, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Hi April Rose! 🙂

  241.  #241Azure Blu on July 15, 2014 at 1:57 pm

    Yes…. slathering myself with loving compassion and enjoying my beautiful, siren self!!

  242.  #242nyx on July 15, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    @April Rose

    I like the part of plan B, C, D…
    also: the FM in your post 187- I will use this. It is efficient and delightful. If I was a guy I would set up a date ASAP 😉 especially, Indigo, if the enthusiasm was about “climbing to the highest peak”. Fascinating and exciting topic for both men and women 🙂

  243.  #243Linda on July 15, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    FW @ 206 I love your little script there about Kim’s situation.

    I am going to copy and paste that one!

    I love my intuition. As I have grown and worked on “my” stuff.. it has become even more keen.

  244.  #244Linda on July 15, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    @ 166 Sophie…

    Oh my! You got it. I really feel heard and understood. shaming, scolded, controlled… YES! I did feel exactly those things.

  245.  #245Linda on July 15, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    On the back side of my little encounter I had this morning and all the anger and rage it triggered . I have decided It feels a bit like a cleansing cry does.

    My thoughts and feelings are much clearer. My anger was healing to me today.

  246.  #246Labbit on July 15, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    Thanks Azure Blu and Millie. I feel anxious, I haven’t felt this way in a while! It feels strange. Home from work, about to take a nice bath to relax…I appreciate your feedback very much. I will trust my heart which says good things are coming. 🙂 Now if I could just get my head on the same page!

  247.  #247Millie on July 15, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    It feels so frustrating……to crave connection…love…and intimacy…and be unable to give it to yourself.

    I feel like I’m so out of touch with what I really want. And when I say that I mean, how do I want to feel? Sure, I want committment, marriage, kids, a man who adores me….but how does that feel? How do I feel? All I feel is closed….rejected…unable. I feel very unable. Unable to communicate truth, unable to feel inside what I really want, unable to create that magic with someone else. I feel handicapped.

    Mechanic told me a female friend of his is staying with him for the next three weeks. I wasn’t sure how to respond, as he and I are not dating, so I replied very simply, have fun and thank you for telling me. His response was “I didn’t think I needed to tell anyone. She’s my friend.” I felt immediately that I had crossed some line, even though all I really meant was exactly what I said. There was no sarcasm there. To me, he seemed defensive. I let him know that…and he said he was just stating the facts. The conversation ended on a light-hearted note. But I can’t help feeling this under-current of tension. He felt the need to express that, He told me of his own accord, and I didn’t ask anything further of their relationship. It’s none of my business. Part of me wanted to make sure everything was “ok” between him and I, but what does “ok” even mean? I felt that anything additional I’d say would be a form of controlling what he thinks or getting him to validate something, that we are “ok.” What is ok? I don’t feel ok right now. Would him saying that make me feel better, no. I’m sure whatever he “thinks” isn’t far from the truth anyway.

    Anyway, I feel like I’m being dishonest with myself. I have to grab my own shoulders and shake them….”What do you really want?!” “Are you alive?” “What do you feel?!” “What do you feel besides longing with tinges of pain?” “What would feel good to you?!”

    The scary part is….I’m so scared to answer those questions. Maybe I’m scared because I don’t even know the real answer! I don’t even know. As Shannon P commented to me months ago, I’m so scared to be vulnerable. I’m hiding under this guise of sexuality. And I wonder why I feel like a sexual object….

    I don’t want to do this anymore. This….whatever I’m doing, or not doing. It doesn’t feel right, it feels icky.

    I need to get on the same page with myself. All my parts are on different pages. I’m inconsistent. One minute I’m telling him I want friends with benefits, (because in the moment I want that), the next I’m telling him I can’t do it, the next I’m telling him I want to date him, then we don’t talk, then we get close again, and I disrupt the balance because I get attached, and my feelings and emotions just want to be out in the open, but I’ve put myself in this situation where I question them. I’m so inconsistent, that I don’t even trust how I feel. What a mess……

    I need to just STOP. Stop it all…take ten huge steps back and figure out what I’m doing, because this is not working.

  248.  #248Kim on July 15, 2014 at 8:19 pm

    Hm. Feeling calm tonight but also torn.
    Wild child is not letting up at all. He has now asked me to meet him for lunch either this week or next…that alone has let me to think it has something to do with his situation that it’s lunch midweek and not dinner or the weekends..and this is where I realize that I made the right decision, because I would question this kind of stuff all the time. Is he with her?

    I stayed form and said the onky way we would meet was at his place. He said he wants fo keep the peace. He also said upon my questions, that neither of them had been dating anyone but that they talked about it.

    I still do not think he is on the level with me as there was so much other secrecy. I know he is very keen on me because I have told him a few times to get lost and cut contact off dead,
    But he doesn’t let up.

    I was asking myself what the benefit would be if we did met and can’t think of one other than practice. The downside would be getting attached again and wasting time with a man.who would never be a match on so many other levels.
    For example, he now says I am uptight and rigid when it comes to plans, referring tonthe night when I had prepared a dinner for 2 and he just ignored it and invited his friends. Well, in my book that was rude and zero etiquette, men I dated before would never even have dreamed of that, and I let it happen and instead kf apologizing he said I am inflexible and that he didn’t like salmon anyway,…whoa. I had asked him before but that is beside the point..I have been brought up to appreciate when other people cook me a meal, not knock it and make alternative plans.

    So honestly, he is not on my wavelength, I am no longer at highschool at nearly 40. We had two botched dates that his friends gatecrashed or messed up with bad timing and one where I was stood up, again because friends came first.
    I don’t see that improvi enough for me to feel good, a man tends to imoress a girl on the first few dates.

    So after all the deliberation I told him I had not changed my mind and as long as I did not see with my own eyes the place he lives in and his situation, there woudn’t be any dates. He just said ‘ok’.

    I don’t want to practice with him, I think.

  249.  #249Lexie on July 15, 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Hello Sirens :).
    Thank you so much for all your loving responses. This does go deeper than porn I know. I feel very inadequate and afraid. Like I haven’t been good enough from the beginning for my husband. I do feel likes he feels I was his back up plan. I feel ashamed that even feeling this way I chose to stay. I chose to wait around on the little crumbs I could get if I stuck around. This is my third marriage and I feel so embarrassed that this one may fail too. I have an Incredibly hard time with my self esteem even while I’m trying to practice all the tools I feel resistance from my extremely strong nasty voice constantly. I am coming to the realization that maybe I can’t seem to function in a relationship and be happy. My first marriage was at 17 I was pregnant and was abused in every way possible by him. He cheated on me countless times and he also had an alcohol problem. My husband now begs me not to leave and says he will go to counseling and try everything he can to show me that he is a changed man but I pick up on every little action and every word that he says to the contrary. I’m applying for jobs this week and I know that will help some. I’m sooooo thankful I found this blog and Rori’s material I just wish I knew how to put it in to play better.

    I get extremely angry with him and I blow up and immediately the first thing I say is I’m going home. That’s so how I feel in the heat of the moment though. I do at that time want nothing more than to be back home with my family and away from all this worry and feeling of inadequacy. I don’t know that the damage can be undone here but I’m going to try my best and focus on myself and my daughter.

    Thank you all so much from the bottom of my heart for answering me. I feel a bit of peace in my storm filled body right now. (((( hugs)))) to you all

  250.  #250Rori Raye on July 15, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Sheryl – Welcome – and you’re in the right place to learn how to do this! Love, Rori

  251.  #251Millie on July 16, 2014 at 12:10 am

    Wow…I was really in a mood when I got home and wrote that previous post… Very intense…. I feel better now, not so hard on myself. I took a relaxing shower and my body feels warm and tingly. I spent some time with myself, folding clothes, watching my favorite show, doing some dishes. Simple things, but they make me feel grounded and connected to my place, my home. When I nurture and care for my living space, and what’s around me, I feel better about me too. 🙂 goodnight sirens, I know I’ve been a dramatic poster today! Time for some rest.

  252.  #252Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 12:31 am


    Try to breathe. Maybe find some activities or make a list of things that will calm you and help you to take your mind off him for pockets of time?

  253.  #253Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 12:51 am


    This is purely my own take on Mechanic, not based on any scientific or expert knowledge, lol 😉 but my opinion is that when a guy says things like that, for example letting you know about the female friend coming to stay when he didn’t have to, and then getting a bit defensive, it’s because he has feelings for you that go beyond casual, he does care… but for reasons of emotional unavailability on his part, or fear or doubts or whatever, he’s not willing to move it to the next level.

    I know I’ve been confused by this kind of behavior from guys before… a guy will for example comment that a girl is pretty, and then say “but not as pretty as you”. Where you can feel yourself falling for a guy because you know there’s a connection there, but you can sense he has walls up.

    I guess what I’m saying is, my opinion is that if you feel something is there, it probably is, but for reasons of his own, his own stuff, he’s probably not really able to do relationship and commitment.

    Please be easy on yourself. Please keep your opinion of yourself high 🙂

  254.  #254Femininewoman on July 16, 2014 at 2:39 am

    Hi Waterfall. Do you live with him?

  255.  #255Femininewoman on July 16, 2014 at 2:41 am

    Sheryl I can’t seem to find your first comment

  256.  #256Azure Blu on July 16, 2014 at 4:37 am

    sheryl #90
    Welcome siren,
    Have you read Rori’s ebook? It would be a great place to start
    understanding and learning how to be
    Strong on the inside…
    and soft on the outside…
    I believe also a man likes to feel brave, needed, protector and respected…
    But no one likes a needy person…
    that would be leaning forward and pushing men away…
    Also reading and participating here on Siren Island…

  257.  #257Azure Blu on July 16, 2014 at 4:40 am

    Millie #247
    Wow!! very powerful insights into your lovely, warm, heart and you
    that you’ve shared here…
    very profound and vulnerable…

  258.  #258Azure Blu on July 16, 2014 at 4:46 am

    My goodness!!!
    Yesterday was packed full of men and work projects coming my way!!!
    I feel excited and bright thinking about the sweet things 2 past cds said to me…

    they are both wanting to at least try and see what might happen…
    Want to try and work on past mistakes, better communication (on my part also)…
    Mmmm… It would feel good to cuddle up and just sleep close to a warm, strong man…
    Oooops… not yet…first things first, sirens!!! ;->

  259.  #259Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 4:59 am


    In my experience, many if not most men love strong and independent women. These are very attractive qualities and there is no need to lose them… in fact, it makes being a siren so much easier if you have your own life and interests, job and friends etc.

    If you want to make him feel needed, maybe you can start in small ways by allowing him to be your hero? I like to start with things the man is good at or has an interest in… For example with D, he is absolutely brilliant with computers. So I mention to him when I am struggling with something or have a problem with technology, and he loves to swoop in to the rescue.

    I’m concerned you say you need to walk on eggshells? Perhaps you could try expressing yourself in the ways Rori suggests more and more out of your comfort zone, and see how he reacts, and build up your confidence that way?

  260.  #260Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 5:01 am

    nyx and CurvySiren,

    Thank you, I found climbing the highest peak of the mountain to be very beautiful and inspiring! It’s been a very long time since I’ve done something like that and it gave me renewed energy.

  261.  #261Kim on July 16, 2014 at 5:52 am

    Azure Blu! Wow! 2 yummy CD’s lol.
    Both recognizing past mistakes and wanting to ‘work’ on things…that would gt me excited too 🙂
    Can’t wait to hear where that goes!

  262.  #262Femininewoman on July 16, 2014 at 7:07 am

    RE 90 Sheryl I am not convinced that I need to “act” like a need a man. “Acting” anything in romantic relationships just seem inauthentic to me these days so I intend to just be me.

    Reading your comment I feel like just asking who are you? What do you want in a relationship? Why would you get into a romantic relationship anyway?

  263.  #263Waterfalls on July 16, 2014 at 7:42 am

    I started crying when I read this post. I’m so emotional these days. It’s been 2 weeks since I bought the complete collection and I’ve listened to almost all the programs. I’m in an exclusive “relationship” with my ex from 4 years ago, and my best friend for the last 3 years. We decided to try dating again a couple of months ago and it haven’t been working out well. I’ve been pushing alot! The last two weeks however, I’ve only texted him one time (to cancel a date). We haven’t spend much time together since I stopped pushing (once a week). Next week we’re going to Rome for a short vacation, and I’m dreading it since I’ve been so emotional lately.

    Just before I started listening to Rori’s tips I had a major breakdown in front of him and cried my eyes out telling him how tired I was of always trying. He just held me and let me cry, and he told me how beautiful I was when I cried. He’s been calling me or texting me every day since. But I used to see him 2-3 times a week before this happened and I’ve really been missing him and cried alot over him. He confuses me big time. He often lets me know how he doubts himself and his emotions towards me, sometimes indirectly like after we had dinner at his parents last week he told me I’ll MAYBE get to meet them again. Other times he tells me (when we’ve had a fight and he thinks he’s loosing me) how he can’t live without me and that he’s addicted to me. Still, his not sure if he loves me enough. I feel really lost here and I’m not sure what to say to him. Should I share all my emotions with him or is it too much? I’m so scared to have a breakdown every time I see him. How much crying can a man handle? I’m feeling despair and I’m wondering if it’s all lost…

  264.  #264Valarie O'Ryan on July 16, 2014 at 7:46 am

    Sheryl, you’re definitely not alone with feeling confused by “making him feel needed vs being needy.” I had it all backwards when I was dating!

    This might help:!The-Difference-Between-Making-Him-Feel-Needed-And-Being-Needy/csw/C662A859-7139-45A9-B9B2-D3C72605592C

    Love, ~Valarie

  265.  #265Labbit on July 16, 2014 at 7:48 am

    Hi Sheryl, to you what does showing that you need a man look like? It would be helpful to know how that looks for you so we can better help.

    I went through a time of not wanting to be with anyone, just wanting to be alone and independent and do my own thing. Which also of course attracted many men to me since I was giving off a whatever vibe to them. The issue was that although I was leaning back in Rori’s parlance, I was also being cold and unwelcoming to men. It wasn’t until I learned how to lean back and yet also be an invitation that I started developing relationships instead of just short dating bursts.

    When a man thinks of us as needy, usually it has to do with us looking to them for validation of some kind, us NOT loving ourselves enough somehow. Does this sound familiar to you at all?

  266.  #266Labbit on July 16, 2014 at 7:54 am

    Indigo 252 — thank you! You are right on, relaxation and calming myself down has helped a lot. Last night I took a long bath with some scented candles in vanilla and lavender and then used my favorite body lotion after. Watched the All-Star Game and took some time for me. A couple of CDs texted me and one called but I decided to forget about them all for an evening and focus on loving me.

    This morning for the first time in days I woke up calm and relaxed, instead of a sudden rush of fear grabbing me. I choose trust. I take care of myself, I love myself. I realized this fear might just be a sign of me jumping into the next stage — and that’s really cool! So I’m embracing it and allowing it to be, not resisting it but not giving it my full attention either. Hopefully it is a sign of wonderful things to come!

    Today I feel harmonious. I woke up with a smile and feeling yummy. Like love is radiating out of me once again. I feel more comfortable in my own skin. I am enough! In fact, I’m a Siren. As I was leaving my gym class this morning there were four men waiting for the next class and THEY ALL turned to watch me leave. That was great! I was already feeling so good and that was the cherry on top. I like this feeling…I feel sensuous and soft and tasty.

  267.  #267Labbit on July 16, 2014 at 7:57 am

    Millie 251 — I am glad to hear you are already feeling better! Without taking you backwards I just want to say that when I feel down right now I’m finding Rori’s exercise of finding which body part is holding tension and having a dialogue with it very helpful. Last night I had a conversation with my shoulders, and my lower back, and also with my left hand. I feel so silly sharing this and yet it really does work! As I spoke to each part I felt it relax, and then I relaxed, and I felt giggly! Much better than just an hour or two before. 🙂

  268.  #268Labbit on July 16, 2014 at 8:00 am

    Linda 245 – I agree, crying sometimes really is the best release. It feels good to let all that tension out.

    Daria you are awesome! I love reading your loving messages to you, and admire the way you are always in touch with your feelings and so willing to share here. I feel inspired by you!

  269.  #269Kim on July 16, 2014 at 8:14 am

    So a very timely reminder.
    Guess what. I had an old date contact me, from 5 years ago. We dated briefly, until (drumroll) he told me he still loved with the ex. For practical reasons such as cheaper accommodation in a town centre. He also had a house in the country. Which is where we met, so I didn’t have an idea for a little while until he told me. I told him dating was suspended indefinitely until he moved out.
    By pure chance he contacted me today, and guess what? 5 years later, he still lives with the ex. The ‘ex’ who presumably doesn’t knkw that she is the ex. The same bs phone and facebook secrecy and the same lame excuse that he ‘didn’t want to upset things’ 5 years ago.

    Whoa. What a timely reminder. I did the right thing 5 years ago and I am doing the right thing now. Thank you Universe.

  270.  #270Kim on July 16, 2014 at 8:15 am

    ‘Lived with the ex’ freudian slip lol

  271.  #271Kim on July 16, 2014 at 9:08 am

    I feel really pissed now. Someone insinuated in another internet based discussion on fb, that it is probably me attracting these men with my expectations being negative. And being so negative generally about men.
    It wound me up because I actually gave this guy a chance even though he was out of my comfort zone already and no, I did not expect to get stood up or him still living with the gf, and no, I did not ‘attract’ him by being negative.
    Why should I blame myself?

    I actually dates some very nice men in the past and had long term relationships with sweet guys, so this all of a sudden changing six years ago, I more put it down to demographics and many guys my age being in marriages with young children. To be told it’s because of my negativity feels really bad, and it then being made a joke of ‘lol’ etc feels even worse, especially when that person is in a long term happy relationship. As if to say ‘look, I can do it and I can attract a good man, I am obviously a lot better and more positive than you’.
    If only it were that easy.
    And then I was told that I probably create all that drama myself.
    I just hope for that person, that they never have any drama happening in their own personal life and get told by someone much younger and much less experienced in life generally, that they create it all themselves and it’s all based on attracting stuff.
    Anyway, rant over.
    To put it into perspective, that person also sent me a private message because she was pissed with my opinion of people smoking pot when on-call, so probably just a case of sour grapes.
    Still feels bad. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I don’t need to hear it when I don’t want to.

  272.  #272Kim on July 16, 2014 at 9:24 am

    That same thinking ‘maybe it is me?’ Kept me stuck dating guys that didn’t suit me, trying to fix stuff with feeling messages and excusing things that ordinarily might have been dealbreakers and looking on the positive side.

    I give guys a chance, but if they bring drama into my life, with unfinished business or substance abuse or whatever else, I am not going to say it is my fault for attracting them. No way Jose. The sheer variety of people Inattracted in the last few years makes that theory redundant.
    If that was all a reflection on me, I wouldn’t slather self love on me but rather say ‘oh so something must be wrong with me’ and that never got anyone anywhere.
    I have amd am still working on my issues, but I don’t believe getting randomly chatted up by a man who knows nothing about me, is in any way, shape or form a reflection on me or my character. That’s kinda mumbo jumbo to me.

  273.  #273Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Labbit 265,

    That’s so beautiful! I felt so happy reading your post. You are just amazing!

    I remember that rush of fear grabbing me when I woke up. I used to have it even when I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom – my heart would pound, my mind would race and I would literally search for the most negative thought about what was happening in my life. I realized the other day that that has completely stopped happening. I don’t have nightmares any more, and I wake up feeling peaceful and rested almost every morning.

  274.  #274Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 10:07 am


    I don’t think any part of these experiences should be about self-blame in any way, shape or form. Your love for yourself is too precious to let it give way to any thought of that kind.

    I don’t think of anything in terms of blame any more. We do what we are able to do because of where we are on our journey at the time, and so does the other person. So I don’t see it as about blame.

    I do believe that when the same experiences keep happening to us that it holds a message for *us* though… and this message is never about our inadequacy. Have you given any thought to what the message might be for you with men who are still involved with their exes?


  275.  #275Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 10:11 am

    It’s not the same as your situation, but I kept having experiences showing up for me with guys who had good female friends – there was nothing going on between them, but it made me feel so squirmy and heart-poundingly uncomfortable I wanted to vomit. It kept showing up for me so I was forced to feel through my awful feelings, and eventually after quite a long time, they did dissipate, and the situations all disappeared from my life.

  276.  #276Violette on July 16, 2014 at 10:38 am

    S texted me that he misses me and can’t wait to see me. It annoyed me…because I don’t miss him. That sounds mean, but now I have to text him back that I feel the same way.

    It’s just so close for comfort.

    I do enjoy having him in my life because he’s teaching me so much what it feels like to be valued and cared for. The other night he basically said he wanted to have a kid with me. No man has ever said that to me before! It felt really really good. And he was telling me about an event for next year, and started to say that it would be good for me to know about, then he changed and said we’ll go together. It felt amazing too!

    He always pays, sometimes he’s cheap and that’s really triggering. But he’s never asked me to pay. Or led me to think he will.

    So many of his reactions to things I say are triggering though. Like I told him about a small triumph with my dog and he said that was good for me because I need that to be happening because he was worried about the ways I was having to handle things up to then.

    Pissed me off! I love my dog and I’m handling things fine thank you very much and don’t be worried for me!!!

    I just tried to stay up, of course I ended up correcting him as much as I could, but I really tried not to let it ruin my mood. Ugh, he just doesn’t understand me, like at all,on any level. And I do not want to explain myself, but he keeps asking me to, saying I’m mysterious. I wouldn’t be if I felt he’s understand where I’m coming from. It feels really hard.

    But I don’t want to lose him.

    He’s the first man to show up for me in a long time, and really want to stay. I want to enjoy it for a while longer.

    Thank you Daria and Azure Blue for your comments, it feels really nice to be hear on this.

  277.  #277Dominique on July 16, 2014 at 11:21 am

    Violette – 275 – “now I have to text him back that I feel the same way.” –

    My question to you is why? Even if you did feel the same, you still are in no way obligated to respond in kind.

    And since you don’t feel this way about him, how about just enjoying, receiving these words from him.

    Many women would feel weird or upset if words like this were not returned to them when given, yet most men don’t feel this way. They tend to give because they want to with no expectation of something back.


  278.  #278Violette on July 16, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Dominique if I don’t return a text or call he will think something is wrong and it will create drama, this is why I feel I have to respond. I don’t want to have to explain myself to him and reassure him.

    Otherwise I would stop dating him.

    It may sound inauthentic, but that’s what I’ve signed up for to some degree if I’m still with him.

    I’m with him because I don’t feel ready to go. I don’t want to tell him I don’t like him as much as he likes me, that his physical touch is not good and not getting better, that he doesn’t understand me and it really annoys me. That would be authentic, but I don’t really see the point in going there.

  279.  #279Millie on July 16, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    253 Indigo-

    Thank you for your comment, it felt really good to read that and confirmed what I was feeling/thinking inside. But, as you said, unavailable is a key word there, and I’m wondering if he’s a mirror to my own emotional unavailability. Food for thought… I’ve never felt such a strong desire to step back, for myself, and spend time with myself, figuring out my own next steps and choices. It’s good timing for this.

    257- Azure,

    Awwww thank you so much for such encouraging and warm words. I feel so safe expressing myself here.
    Thank you for listening, your comment is like a warm bear hug. 🙂

  280.  #280Sophie on July 16, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Millie Millie Millie I think you are so amazing – I hear the voice of a strong, self aware woman who is navigating a difficult world – ha ha that is probably the biggest self-projection ever but I identify with a lot of your experiences. And, I agree with Indigo – we can feel the energy that comes from these men and it can feel very confusing to us (especially when they do things like outright deny it) but in all of my experiences (and there have been many) I have always been right that there was feeling there and as Indigo says that these men just weren’t available. Once I’d managed to extricate my feelings from the situation I have always been relieved with hindsight as I have been able to see clearly their unavailability (both with regards to me and with other women). Often, these men have been a bizarre form of connection without the threat of actual intimacy – however much I’ve craved it – sometimes I’ve felt too vulnerable. But it is punishment to always be craving something unattainable – strange how it can feel so addictive.

    Violette – are you able to just thank him for his words – without adding anything placating (but untrue) in response?

    I have had a rubbishy day. I am feeling beat up with the exhaustion of it and thinking, what am I doing to myself Sirens?! I have two clients who require work submissions this week. I also work part time somewhere else. Today was a clear day to work on client number one’s (I also submitted work for him that i did all weekend). Mid-flow, B wanted another exchange – he wants my flexibility with regards to moving out. Yesterday, also. I felt so harassed by him yesterday I left my freelance work at other work hence meaning I didn’t have it today and potentially implicating myself at other work. I broke with the pressure from B – ended up literally wailing on the floor. I am, needless to say, behind schedule.

    However, client one has not paid me for weekend’s submission, nor been in touch to discuss it nor answered my emails about confirming deadlines – why am I busting a gut? I am doing that thing again aren’t I when I am giving more than I am receiving in return?

    So, I have decided to stop giving that client so much power over me when he hasn’t replied to my emails. Finally, I asked other work to pay me to cover bills, they said they would, they didn’t – leaving me today without any money. What IS this????!!!! All work and no pay!

    So, where do I need to shift? I allow fear to dictate the commitments I make – over-stretching myself rather than attempting to negotiate terms to suit me. Do I need to practice Rori’s freefall tool in every area of my life? I need to be being AUTHENTIC ladies don’t I? Even in business? Even when it’s scary? I find business difficult to navigate.

  281.  #281Violette on July 16, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    I’m feeling disappointed I haven’t heard from SJ. I really liked him. He was fun, and I was sure he was really into me. 2 dates and radio silence. It’s been a week and a half.

    I want to call him. But I called him before the last date, since I was back in town. It’s his turn.

    For whatever reason it’s just feeling really really hard today, not hearing from him, not continuing and developing and getting to know him.


  282.  #282Sophie on July 16, 2014 at 1:57 pm

    Hi Marikaberg – I read your post and halfway trough and on I was thinking CD, CD, CD and then you said at the end that you would CD 🙂

    My intuitive feeling was to slow down with this man if your feelings are so unsteady and yes, add more men into the mix so, as other Sirens are so good at demonstrating, we get to experience how we feel with lots of different men and their different energies. And, we get to know what may be oxytocin – the highs from those hot moments 🙂

  283.  #283sequoia on July 16, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    Thank you Azur Blu,
    what a great idea, to learn strip tease from videos on youtube. I feel very inspired 🙂

    I feel sad G-CD texted he wants to visit me and feel me but doesn’t seem to feel inspired to call me or take me out. He just said sorry don’t have time after I texted him that it would feel good to go on a walk on friday when he asked when I have time for him to come and visit me.
    Mhhh he replied he can’t call me as he is busy.
    I deleted his phone nr as I don’t want to reach out to him again.
    I had the feeling he was not just interested in sex but also in me…well at the moment it doesn’t seem like it.
    I feel sad.

    Saw my date for friday today at the gym-
    and also is daughter – which was a bit of a shock,
    I didn’t know that he had a teenage daughter!
    He doesn’t feel like he is the one for me, but I am still going to practice with him,
    it feels a bit strange so.

  284.  #284sequoia on July 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    and great to hear Azur Blu that 2 of your CDs have come back. Wow!
    Would love to hear what happened with them before, eg. what boundaries you did set with them.

  285.  #285Dominique on July 16, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    Marikaberg – 278 – Maybe this will help.


  286.  #286Kim on July 16, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Indigo, yes, but I don’t know what the message is. One I met 5?years ago, dated a million people in between, one was MoM and now this one.
    Honestly, Inthink it’s just an annoying coincidence.
    Does everything have to be a message or law of attraction?
    I had a massive leak today which destroyed my condo.
    Should I think this is law of attraction, or a message, as well? Know what I mean?
    People getvraoed, abused and killed every day. There is no message in that either. Things happen. We meet 200 men, maybe 50 are abusers, toxic, horrible. Maybe luck of the draw we get a couple of dates with a milder version of this.
    Frankly, no, I don’t think there is a message.
    I think this just ‘is’, like so many things. Cancer, sickness, luck, bad luck.
    It just is.

  287.  #287Kim on July 16, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    What is key is how we react to it and whether we accept it in our life or whether we move on and do what feels good

  288.  #288Dominique on July 16, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Violette – 279 – How about a smiley face then. Or better – how about a simple – thank you –
    or maybe this feels so good to read.


  289.  #289Millie on July 16, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Sophie–I’m so glad you feel a kinship with me and see your younger self in me. I feel elated reading that you see me as a strong, self-aware women, especially because in my post I was feeling weak and confused.
    I think the tension I may have been sensing was perhaps his response to thinking I was being sarcastic and jabbing him. Perhaps because he is used to women doing that. I was being nothing of the sort, but I think his response for him, was saying he has nothing to hide, but may also be saying, since there is nothing going on between us, I didn’t think I needed to tell you. Perhaps it is all of the above, but it doesn’t matter anymore. As much as I care for him, so much of it feels “not enough.” I’m really excited to step back and take a break from men and really give my love life a direction.

  290.  #290Millie on July 16, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    Labbit 267
    I love this idea!!!! I see it connecting emotion and physicality together, heart and body, what is your body trying to say, what is your heart trying to say? Such a great tool! I will definitely try it thank you!

  291.  #291Millie on July 16, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    Sophie- Im sorry to read you had a rubbishy day! I may be terrible with men, but I’m pretty good at communicating in business….Let me take a stab at this.
    First, you need to remember that your clients are coming to you for your expertise, they have a need, and you are filling it. You are a busy lady, filled with other clients demanding your expertise. If your clients want your time, you need to be clear on how they can get it. Tell Client A, you need a clear deadline confirmed BEFORE you even start working on the project, or if that is a gray area, then a review point. If that person isn’t responding to your emails, call them. If they aren’t available and you’ve sent numerous emails with the !! sign, then follow the deadline that works for you until you hear from them. As far as payment goes, I think you need a contract that your client needs to sign up front agreeing to when and how much they are liable for. Is it the entire amount at then end?? Is it a down payment for half up front?? Starting a project and then asking them to pay you midway, randomly, doesn’t come across as professional and they might not take you seriously. Lay down the law, up front, and expect them to follow it. If they don’t, they don’t get your expertise when they want it. Don’t let your clients run the show, consider it a privelege to work with you.

  292.  #292Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 11:54 pm


    I don’t want to get all boy/advicey on you, but perhaps consider putting together a client agreement document and send it to them before you do any work and ask them if they agree to your terms?

  293.  #293Indigo on July 16, 2014 at 11:55 pm


    As you say, not everything has to have a message. I just find it a helpful point to consider, but if you feel there’s no message, whatever works for you.

  294.  #294Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 12:01 am


    Gosh, you read that hugs mean nothing to men? For me I think this would be a case of “don’t believe everything you read”.

    For me, I think it so much depends on the context of the hug. You can get a quick, friendly hug such as the kind you might give to friends and family, and there is little to no feeling of connection there, and I wouldn’t say these mean very much.

    But for me there is a world of difference when a man gives you a close, warm, full-body hug of his own initiative where you can feel the connectedness and the comfort and affection, where you can feel he just wants to be close to you. For me, this means a lot and is one of the most wonderful things in the world.

  295.  #295Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 12:15 am


    I wanted to share with you some fantastic news – as you know I resigned my draining corporate job at the end of May, and have been trying to get my business up and running in the meantime. Well, the business still has a way to go (I underestimated what needed to be done and how much time it would take) so in the meantime I had to get a job to make ends meet, yet it was so important for me not to go back to the kind of soul-destroying job with long commutes that I had before.

    Anyway, I have applied for and been offered (it was quite a rigorous interviewing process) a job with a non-profit organization – lovely quiet offices, my own office, good salary, great leave allocation, lovely hours (I finish at 4), and… 5-10 minutes drive from home! Best of all, the work I’ll be doing will be going towards making a positive difference in other people’s lives. And takes the pressure off me to get my business going at my own pace. Happy 🙂

  296.  #296sequoia on July 17, 2014 at 12:20 am

    Azur Blu my comment with thanks to you reg the great idea on st**p t**se courses went into moderation too.
    Thank you for your effort to post it again and again dear siren <3

  297.  #297sequoia on July 17, 2014 at 12:44 am

    Labbit it felt good to read your post on your tender Cd. It shows that you can trust life as synchronisity brought you into a spontaneous date with him – beautiful!
    It all sound positive to me and great that you are leaning back and noticing when you are leaning forward.

    I have been leaning forward with G-Cd. I feel I have been a little bit to demanding, wich is not loving, by subtle pushing him with feeling messages into calling me. Mmmh

    And I am releasing him now. Its hard so as I still have been thinking about him a lot. I want to get bussy, my period pain episode and all the feelings that came up have thrown me slightly off my life and I need to get back on my horse tending to my business and doing more of the things I like doing.

    I want to trust that if he felt there was a special connection between us, he will step up and get in touch again.
    I would have loved to explore it as I felt truly touched by him and had the feeling there is a very strong attraction on many levels for us to explore. But if he isn’t up for it there is nothing I can do, except to focus away from him and be open to him when he comes towards me.

    There are 2 more CD from the online dating site I am potentially seeing soon and it would be great if they would become regular ones.
    I know that G-Cd got triggered by me mentioning that I date as he asked me in a text how my date was!
    Maybe he is a little angry at the moment and is withdrawing because of that?
    I might not find out but I would love to.

  298.  #298Sophie on July 17, 2014 at 12:47 am

    Congratulations Indigo!!!! That feel so good to hear that you stepped away from the work environments you didn’t enjoy and now one’s that feel good to you are falling into place – I don’t mind advicey at all – thank you – I need it

    indigo and Millie – I want to come back and read your comments again. Millie absolutely I need to strengthen my mindset on the fact that I am being paid for my skills and abilities…thank you for bringing it up again…I have worked on this a tiny bit…using Rori’s tools actually of ‘being the prize’ and I started to charge more (though energetically I waver and worry on that too). Terms are agreed in advance – and this client was a bit blurry so I went back and clarified but…I have reached another milestone where I need clarification and now I haven’t heard from him and definitely if he hasn’t paid me after the weekend then I’ll have to go back and ask him again. It’s a globally managed forum with different ways of working and I feel confused by some of them – I perhaps haven’t safeguarded my self enough this time but I guess it’s a signal that I need to make sure I understand the systems I am using and have them properly in place next time before I start. I felt worn and panicky yesterday. I will try and pace myself better today. Thank you ladies.

    I’m not that much older really Millie ha ha and I could still very well identify with you right now 🙂 just wait until B is out of the way and I am dating for real once again…I admire how brave you are at staying open as you feel your way through

  299.  #299Sophie on July 17, 2014 at 1:17 am

    Congratulations Indigo!!! I feel very pleased that the move you made left the space for a new work environment to fall into place – hopefully one that feels more congruent to you.And hooray to learning new things and meeting new people and making a difference – whilst still being able to build up your own work

    Thank you Millie and Indigo – Indigo I don’t mind the advice at all – I need it – contracts of a sort are in place – and I do agree terms before I begin – however, this client is using a way of working that I’ve not used before and so I’m not sure if I have safeguarded myself or not. So, I have gone back for more clarification and now there is the pause…Anyway, I’m going to do what I can, but not get myself all panicky and worn out like yesterday and if it ends up being a learning curve, it ends up being a learning curve. I feel grateful Millie for your reminder of re-setting my mindset (and my energy). That I have talent and time and that if he (or anyone) wants that then I have the right to my terms and right payment. I have done some work on this. I used Rori tool’s actually – the ‘I am a prize’ but I need to work on this a lot – after ‘I am the prize’ I began to charge more – successfully – but I still have worry and wavering in my energy – This client got ‘blurry’ although I did attempt to clarify things – I will pull back my energies for now anyway and contact him again if I haven’t heard by the weekend.

    I’m not that much older than you really Millie ha ha and I could identify with you right now! Just wait until I am dating for real again! I admire the bravery you have to keep going and keep trying and keep exploring and growing and just that knowing and determination that you want the best for yourself even when there are so many obstacles along the way – you keep riding the horse 🙂

  300.  #300Kim on July 17, 2014 at 6:03 am

    wow Indigo, congrats, that sounds amazing, and well deserved no doubt. You give me hope!!

  301.  #301Kim on July 17, 2014 at 6:08 am

    Indigo, regarding ‘messages’, I think it depends if this is something caused by oneself of just by fate/life.
    If I keep getting stuck on abusive men, then that for example would be the message to change something.
    If a child gets cancer, or is abused, or has a crazy mother, or you have a freak accident, I don’t believe there is a message other than: life is unfair sometimes. And we all deal with that and just need to get over the bumps.
    Other people have other opinions, and I respect that.

  302.  #302Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 6:33 am

    Viollette #279
    I feel sooo much yummy energy reading your posts!!!

    Even though you seem annoyed… You seem full of Viollete!!! Full of YOU!!! :->

    It’s interesting what you are saying about feeling you must reciprecate when S says nice things…
    I used to think this also…

    For me
    After Rori…
    I have learned It is part of careful Listening…
    and ME basking in the admiration the men are showering me with…
    Part of ME being a Goddess and
    letting them fill my LOVE FOUNTAIN with their
    “watering cans”

    I have gotten comfortable in saying/gushing…
    “Ohhh… thank you… that feels sooo good to hear”
    or “I feel soo warm and happy hearing you say that”
    I believe men feel appreciated this way…

    For me… it is part of getting comfortable in
    simply accepting sweetness coming to me
    from men (which has been sooo good for ME)

  303.  #303Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 6:39 am

    Labbitt #267
    Wow… such a great tool!! I have pasted and copied into my tools folder
    Tried it this morning… almost immediatly I felt a wave of warm, contentment!!
    Mmmmm…. it was my neck and shoulders i softly talked to…
    they work sooo hard every second, minute… to hold ME up… i thank you neck and shoulders for supporting me.
    loving me always…

  304.  #304Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Sophie… I agree with Millie about the half up front…
    I am a contractor/sole proprietor and I require half up front to begin the job…
    No one has ever questioned this…
    also when I don’t hear from a client for 1 or 2 weeks.. I send them my final invoice… all in a very kind, thoughtful vibe… no animosity… just business…
    That usually gets their attention

  305.  #305Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 6:52 am

    You are sounding soo sireny!!!
    Hang in there…
    regreting the 15 years…
    My thoughts would be to try and
    LOVE your regretting…
    Love that you hate your regrets…
    Gently, softly take those regrets and LOVE her…
    set her next to you and hug her
    see what she says when you do that…
    I have found
    Regretts made me very angry…
    until I started loving her and NOT rejecting
    those feelings…
    see what you think…

  306.  #306Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 6:59 am

    Thank you Sophie and Kim, I just love you sweet sirens 🙂 x

    Kim, if you are very unhappy in your work situation, please don’t stick it out. Life is too short to be unhappy at work x

  307.  #307Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 7:06 am

    Kim 301,

    Yes. I had a turbulent and in many ways quite violent childhood, and I don’t believe this was any reflection on me… many people have difficult childhoods and I was just one of them.

    At the time I certainly didn’t see it this way but with time I did come to see my struggles as a blessing, a gift. I am a deeper, more sensitive, more compassionate, loving, more intense version of myself and for me this was their purpose.

    I will only ever talk about my own experience and would never, never presume that others should feel the same. I would not even begin to presume anything about some of the horrors of this world, compared to which my troubles seem very small. Just that it’s been a useful way for me to see my life.

    I respect your opinion 🙂

  308.  #308Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 7:10 am

    WOW congrats on the new job…
    Sounds perfect!! I have worked for nonprofits for years…
    I love the vibe, the mission of helping others and the people who work there…

  309.  #309Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 7:24 am

    About Hugs….
    for me, hugs are sooo important…
    I believe for men (being more non verbal communicators),
    often they share their overwhelming love, safety making and feelings with others they love and care about through hugs…

    I have, in my memory, some of THE most PROFOUND hugs I have gotten from men that loved me… (specific instances)
    I can remember why they hugged me so profoundly (what feelings they were trying to share) and how loved and cared for I felt…

    I can remember when I left home at 18 and meeting kids from other cultural backgrounds (and their families) and allll the wonderful hugging that went on…
    In my Scottish/ German background NO hugging or kissing went on between family or friends…
    It was like a lovely, warm, light went on when I visited my friends and their families and received hugs and kisses
    Ahhh the sweetness of a warm hug

  310.  #310Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 7:34 am

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you! I worked in an NPO for three years and it was an ideal environment for me.

    I agree with you about hugs. I love them. For those who don’t put their love into words, a hug can convey a lot.

  311.  #311Azure Blu on July 17, 2014 at 8:01 am

    Sooo… i took my own advise..

    I took my regret… gently hugged her
    lifted her on the the couch next to me…
    and put my warm arms around her…
    I asked her how she felt…
    She’s having a tempter tantrum…
    kicking her legs, making an ugly face, yelling and screaming…
    I didn’t realize how neglected and upset she is..
    I will need to work on this today (a lifetime I imagine)

  312.  #312Labbit on July 17, 2014 at 8:28 am

    Indigo congratulations on your new job!!! That sounds amazing, and also on your business!!

    Azure Blu 310 – Could not agree with you more! When a man who loves me (whether it be friendship or romantic love) wraps me up in a hug, I feel safe and secure and so very loved. Much in the way a family member’s hug feels like caring and comfort.

  313.  #313Dominique on July 17, 2014 at 8:46 am

    marikaber – 289 – I disagree that hugs are meaningless to men. Men do not tend to do anything they don’t want to. So if you’re feeling loved, if you’re feeling connection through the amazing hugs you share with your husband, then this IS what you’re receiving.

    It’s the actions which say it all, the words not necessarily.


  314.  #314Dominique on July 17, 2014 at 8:50 am

    Indigo – 296 – SO great, Love this.


  315.  #315Dominique on July 17, 2014 at 8:56 am

    MarikaBerg – 306 – I’m sorry the article made you cry, yet I feel so delighted that it touched you in this way.

    And so what if you slipped an FB stalked. Can you forgive yourself? Can you be kind, gentle, and patient with yourself, as you are learning new ways?

    Love to you.


  316.  #316Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Thank you Labbit 🙂 thank you Dominique 🙂


  317.  #317Indigo on July 17, 2014 at 9:47 am


    Facebook stalking is something we all do from time to time. Don’t beat yourself up about it. It was something I used to do a lot, like deliberately triggering myself. But the urge has got less and less with time, and I rarely if ever do it any more now.

    Anyhow, be gentle with yourself 🙂

  318.  #318Millie on July 17, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    I got a newsletter from Christian Carter today about the exact situation I’m in. I feel so thankful that I received this newsletter at such a perfect time!! It is about friends with benefits and having feelings for that man and what to do about it. I already started step one on my own and am so glad I am in sync with his recommendations. The first step is figuring out what you want and sticking to it! As much as I think I know, my actions aren’t reflecting it, so taking some alone time to realign myself.

    I’m glad this is happening now, with someone who as much as I care, probably isn’t right for me. My plan is to lean back, spend quality time with myself, align my wants and actions… When and if he contacts me, I’ll speak with true honesty in a positive way. Right now, I’m sorry I’ve been inconsistent, and dishonest with him and myself. I like him, more than a friend. And I can’t continue being physical, if he doesn’t feel the same way. As much as I enjoy it, I want more than drinks and sex.

    Maybe after time alone I’ll feel differently, my words will come from a different place.

  319.  #319Anne on July 19, 2014 at 7:37 am

    Dear Rori,

    I’ve been following your advice since April this year. I read the print version of your book “Have the Relationship that You Want” and I also followed your hint at Christian Carter’s. I have a deep feeling that the news and advice you spread really saved my life. I am in my late fourties and I went through all the pain you are describing so well since my early twenties until I ended up in friendship relationship in which I just shut myself away from any love. It seems that I didn’t want to be loved anymore. But then, very unexpectedly, I met a man my age during a business trip abroad who was into me from the first day on. It was in March this year. We were very professional at our work, but in our leisure time he asked me out (together with other people) and he really overwhelmed me with his charms. He power flirted in a way I could never have imagined before. I found it very tough but always respectful and I was able to react playfully, with dignity and cool. We liked each other a lot from the very beginning. In between it also happend very naturally and without any reflection that I touched him by stroking his shoulder and his head. In retrospective, and after having read so much about it, I realize that all my behaviour, my feelings about myself and my body language had been exactly what you recommend. I could tick almost any of the relevant sentences in your writings. The heavy end came the last evening. Some of the other persons who were with us decided to leave very suddenly and that way the evening out ended for all of us. I had an impression that one of them wanted to put an end to his flirting and my taking it all …
    Well, we parted as we had met and left for our home countries the next day without really saying good bye. That was almost traumatizing. It hadn’t been clear whether we would meet on another business occasion. Now it is clear that we will not. However, we stayed in contact by email and on facebook and I must say that this is where my difficulties started. Had I not had your advice and Christian Carter’s advice (I read you both over and over again) I would have destroyed it all as I have always done in my life so far. We did not have any other chance than emailing and facebooking because there was no ground for dating with us living in two different countries. When you have seen someone for no more than a few days in a row and never were alone with him except for dry hard professional work than you cannot just casually agree on getting on a plane to meet for lunch or dinner in London or Paris without getting into this whole business of where to sleep and so on. It was me who invited him to connect by email and on facebook and it worked as I could never have imagined. I tried very hard to practice being open and to invite without controlling and chasing. There are long phases when we do nothing but playing games on facebook and send each other game requests. It’s like playing chess together for hours without talking. In between we exchange a few statements or conversations. A very personal question like “wouldn’t this be great? [I won’t tell you what. It was a very abtract version of saying how great it would be to there for each other in a lasting loving relationship…]” might be answered with a whole ton of game request. There were phases when nothing happened. The amazing thing aobut me was that I hardly ever panicked. My conviction that he would get back to me grew. Recently however, I had the impression that he would pull away and that I would not hear from him for weeks but before that happened I had a great surprise. H tried to call me by video call. I couldn’t answer for some technical reason but we chatted again and he tried really hard to flirt again. I know now that it is my task to answer in a playful way all by leading it into a direction where we can materialize and dignify the things that are behind. I am aware that this is only the beginning. But I am so happy and I will never regret any of the investment I have made until now regardless of what will happen.
    Thank you so much, Rori!

  320.  #320Hanna on July 21, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    Hi ladies, I would love your opinion, and Rori could you please weigh in..? If you meet a man online, and there is a strong connection, but it’s a long-distance thing, and you discuss this together and decide to go see him, should he cover your plane ticket? If so, should he offer? What if he doesn’t bring it up? How do YOU bring it up and ask him to, with dignity and class, and without awkwardness, guilt, shame, etc.??? Money is a sensitive topic..

  321.  #321Rori Raye on July 22, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Hanna – the question is – why are YOU flying to HIM? Wouldn’t it be simpler if he came to YOU?

    If it’s about kids (being a full-time father), or health – then I would suggest splitting the ticket. Love, Rori

  322.  #322Indigo on July 23, 2014 at 10:52 am


    If you paid for the ticket, would you not feel resentment? If you had to ask him to pay for it, would that not feel awkward and masculine energy for you?

    I truly do feel men should be taking care of these details in the beginning. Either he should be flying to you or he should be buying your ticket, and if neither of those things are happening of his initiative, I would simply wait and hold off on meeting.