Stop Chasing Him!

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questionmanA letter from Ellen that answers a lot of questions:

“Hi Rori

I’d like your help.
I am seeing 3 guys now. one a bit more, he is also the one I like most and who makes the most efforts. thankfully 😉

I am still not really getting past my feelings for the guy at work though.

he has been a bit more in touch. we had a night out with work girls only. but he joined around 2am.. it was weird. he got in touch with me to join. and then he ended up speaking office politics to one woman almost the rest of the night. it annoyed me because we had fun as a group and he came and took one away and brought office talk along. he’s not interested in her so its not about that. but I don’t get why he gets in touch with me to then spend an evening with someone else and especially bring such a stupid topic to a fun evening! he was overly sharing things about his teammates, too. and I got worried he might share things I had told him.

I also felt weird about how he would quiet his voice a few times when I came back from the loo. like he was whispering to her and didn’t want me to hear. it’s fine, I don’t want to know his office stuff. but it was rude and it just showed me how far we’ve come from once having a really strong connection! so I decided to send him an email, particularly to make sure he keeps my stuff to himself and also let him know how I felt about the whispering.

you’re going to tell me that was a mistake, I know…

In the end it was a chain of emails followed by a chain of texts. I’d like you to read the email conversation below (first one is at the bottom). what do I do about him wanting to be ‘friends’. I am not even sure I believe him. but I feel like I’ve lost the plot again 🙁

At one point I asked him if he has ruled out that we ever have something going between each other and he didn’t want to answer. he wondered why it matters and that one never knows. I said I’ll just assume that the answer is yes, then. and he said ‘good’. was that the answer?

He asked me to grab dinner that evening but I had plans. and the Friday after, he also asked me out again. I had plans again. I don’t get this sudden change to ‘friendship mode’ asking me to join him or if he can join me and my friends. it’s fine, but its weird that he had to announce it and that its so sudden…Ellen”

My Answer:

Ellen – Here’s my advice straight:

Completely cut off all interest in this man.

Don’t go near him, don’t write him, don’t THINK about him!, don’t respond to him, don’t talk to him at parties, don’t go near him and listen to his conversations at meetings and parties – NOTHING!!!!!

Just be civil – do NOT shut down, just smile and be civil. He is USELESS to you!!!!

Your body and mind need to completely detox from him!!!!

NO – you should NOT be friends!!!!

Do not go anywhere or do ANYTHING with him. Nothing!

Do what you’re doing with these other men.

This is how you’ll get what you want.

This man at work is a total distraction. He’s like “poison” to your system.

Your instinct to CHASE just kicks in around him. Please, please don’t go back there. Just do not give him ANY energy.

Love, Rori

From Ellen:

Am I chasing him?

My Answer:

Yes, you are chasing him.

You don’t need to. There are so many great men who’re interested in you because you ROCK!!! Love, Rori

From Ellen:

Rori, this is good advice but a bit tricky to execute. he writes me every day. I don’t know how to respond. When he sends me a chat, I just don’t reply? Or press the ignore button? Or do you mean just be nice and answer his questions nicely? Today he asked me why I’m not talking to him. I am not really getting this right.

My Answer:

You’re not talking to him because: he’s stringing you along, because he’s playing with your heart, because he hasn’t the slightest idea – he’s utterly clueless -what it feels like on your end of this.

He thinks it feels okay to be friends, because it feels okay to HIM. He doesn’t get what you’re feeling.

Be nice – say…

“I like you very much, I would like to be your friend, and I don’t feel able to do that in my heart because I have romantic feelings for you and want more than friendship. It hurts every time I’m near you. I want to have a good working relationship. I can’t answer your emails anymore, unless they’re about work.

I guess it’s a girl thing, and I can understand why it’s hard for a man to understand. You’re great, and I wish you were mine, and that’s not in the cards, and so, I’m so sorry, and friendship is out of the question right now. Co-workers is all I can handle.”

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Luzydel on May 27, 2013 at 6:41 am

    Wow Some many ways I can Chase a man..even FB stalking…yikes! I feel bad because I am torturing myself…and the truth is that I amy not be that into him and wasn’t anyway…but I am stuck, I want to move forward!

  2.  #2sophie on May 27, 2013 at 6:56 am

    I love that Rori has given this speech example at the end – thanks Rori! – I may need to use it very soon!

    I did a version of a don’t want to be FWB speech on Friday but have already not really shifted my boundaries and so am beginning to stray into dangerous (for me:) waters – we got to the ‘ok, no sex’ understanding but for me to be friends at all (if I can be) I may have to completely change things round. After the ‘no sex’ convo I already got a ‘loving’ text on sat and the an offer to come round today (which i havent declined!). We shall see.

    Ladies….i get really stuck on the CDing with feeling guilt. I feel like I’m stringing them all along, or lying, or being dishonest or disloyal somehow or I worry that I’ll hurt someone’s feelings…this is do I change my vibe around this?

    I can handle it when I’m dating them all from round about the same point and when it feels like ‘just dates’ but the second it feels slightly more serious or one has been around for much longer I feel panicked – anyone got any thoughts on this????

  3.  #3Tulip on May 27, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Great this could help. I seem to have been put in the FWB department and something along these lines is what I’ll say.

    Sophie I also have the guilt thing with cd ing. I worry that FWB guy will be gutted if I opt for another guy who seems to be more of a step up guy…but maybe I’d be too busy having my needs met ..who knows:)

    I’m a bad multi tasker!

  4.  #4smile on May 27, 2013 at 7:40 am

    Sirens I’m looking for some information so I can stop my mind wandering from one thing to the next and just be in the present moment just to feel when I’m with amb. Any advice …?

  5.  #5Tereana on May 27, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Smile – there is so much advice out there. Where to start? It’s a lot easier said than done.

    Try breathing – as in, focusing on the breath, and breathing deeply, all the way into the belly. Then focus on one thing in the room, maybe him, and just look at it. Notice all the colors and details without thinking about what it might “be” or “mean.” It just is. For me, this gets my attention directly in the present moment and out of my head. I haven’t tried it with a man in the room yet, but now you are inspiring me to try! Thanks! 🙂

  6.  #6smile on May 27, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Thanks tereana, I’ve noticed a lot of chatter in my head recently and it’s quite distracting 🙂

    I’m going to try giving your advice a go! Thanks 🙂

  7.  #7Tereana on May 27, 2013 at 8:08 am


    I wanted to say that I liked your long post from the last thread (number 253, I think), and the whole discussion around “value” and “s*x.” And it sort of makes me giggle to myself, because I feel totally on the other side of it. To me, I KNOW that when I go into sex too soon, it means basically the death of the relationship. And I, for one, have no idea if the men devalue me at that point or not. They might. They might think I’m “a sl*t.” But more importantly, I tend to devalue them in my mind and I lose interest. So, for that reason – and because it feels more comfortable to me – I prefer to wait. IF I have any sensation like I might want to have an actual relationship with the person. (otherwise, who cares, I’ll just go for it ; )

    But I feel kind of jealous/envious of women like you. I wish that I could be so free and non-caring when it comes to my sexuality. I wish that it didn’t matter to me whether it happened sooner or later, and that I didn’t give a crap what the guys think. Because I do.

    And I don’t know that it’s a total myth that it doesn’t matter to them. What I think doesn’t matter is the literal timeline. It’s not really about that. It’s about the fact that men like something that they feel they have had to “work” for. They want to have earned the right and the privilege of sleeping with you, whether it’s on the first date, the third date, or the 30th. And not all men have the same timeline either.

    My friend has a GREAT relationship with her boyfriend, and he courted her for months before they slept together, and that was only because he wanted to be sure that she was his girlfriend first. And that was all HIS decision. She would have slept with him sooner. But she went with his timeline, and I think this is a great example of letting a man “row the boat.” As it were. (And now they live together, and from what I hear, the sex is/was great.)

    What I think devalues a woman in a man’s eyes is, again, not the literal time or date that she decides to do it. It’s whether or not she does it too soon FOR HER. Men will often push for sex, because they have that biological drive to do it. But they don’t want you to do it because THEY want you to do it. They want you to do it because you want to. They want it to be about them, and who they are – not just getting your rocks off (kind of like us). And that’s why I feel slightly jealous of women like you – you don’t worry about STD’s or whether you will like the guy afterward or not. If you feel it in the moment and you want to do it, that’s great. Otherwise, don’t.

    I don’t feel so bad about the guy talking about sex and pushing for it. I realize that if he didn’t want to sleep with me, it would probably feel worse. Because I like being wanted. But I haven’t had the feeling yet, in the moment, that I really wanted it to happen. And I didn’t want to be making that choice to do it, just because it’s available. That is usually when, in the end, I devalue the whole relationship, because I knew that I made a choice that wasn’t entirely about what I wanted – which means it wasn’t really about what he wanted either. Because he wants us to be really into it.

    Does that all make sense?

  8.  #8Luzydel on May 27, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Sophie you do not owe these men anything; they’re not committed to you! Just go out and have fun with each of them; I am understanding more why Rory says to threat them all equal; it helps you keep focus on you happiness and you’ll feel less guilty. The only man who deserves exclusivity is the man who has committed to you, the rest are just bystanders.

    Something I am learning from men is that they put themselves first, they do not feel guilty; they have fun flirt etc. until they feel a woman is worthy of his ‘exclusivity treat’ they just do what they want and focus on their happiness. The only people we as women should put first (and only when necessary) is our children; besides that no men deserves our guilty feelings, our devoted attention. Just go out and have fun; start baby steps and do nice things for you, date yourself and treat yourself like you deserve it! Then when men shower you with attention, you feel like you are worth it.

    A committed relationship has to be a man’s idea or it wont work.

  9.  #9BeLoved on May 27, 2013 at 8:36 am

    Ohhhhhh this is SUCH good advice!!!!
    I never ever told a man my feelings were too strong to be friends until I met C, who is a co-worker. And he tried 7 ways from Sunday to try to get around that, and I let him because I was in fantasyland believing that meant he wanted “something” with me.

    Asking him whether he’s decided there may or may not be anything gives HIM the power, and leaves us feeling weak and insecure.

    It’s so so so so good to finally GET that the feelings don’t mean anything, they are an instinct to chase being triggered and don’t mean there is some great passionate love hiding under all of that.
    My mind kept showing me an image of C in a room full of smoke and mirrors playing peek-a-boo, and I got it, but it took a while to be stronger than the feelings, that it does kick in a primal trigger, this moving target…what is it? Is it prey? Is it danger? Is it food? What is it? and our minds go crazy until we finally see it for what it is, smoke and mirrors distraction.

    It took a LONG time to work through those feelings but I feel so strong now…it’s enhanced my power to concentrate – I can totally tune out heckling when I’m playing dominoes, and I attribute this to practicing with C. He used to butter me up before games and get me feeling all lovey and fuzzy and now I can keep my heart open and still play like a shark and ignore distractions. It’s a good life skill to have, to learn to sort out what’s important to focus on.

    I’m wondering if maybe these guys that pop up and are like, hey here’s my number, let’s get together..are distractions from the easy easy men who don’t do that.

  10.  #10sophie on May 27, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Tulip – I identify that’s exactly where I’m at with my FWB man – I change between telling myself he’s not asked to be exclusive and doesn’t see himself as exclusive to still worrying about his feelings. It feels annoying as I know rationally he has no claims to me and I know that he knows that too but I still feel the uncomfortable, uncool feelings.

    luzydell – thanks for replying 🙂 i’m totally with you in alllll of it and I understand it in my head but struggle with it in my feelings…its coming up for me probably as this fwb cd was the only cd for a while whilst i was at a really low ebb and i’m finding it really hard to change my vibe around it… I am being open to other men as in in general and accepting dates and who knows if there was a click with someone new it might shift it all around but there is still guilt like even having different men’s messages etc….mmmmm the situation with him is a work in progress and I am a work in progress – I guess as you say I just need to keep taking babysteps…

    i totally get that the relationship has to be their idea too 🙂

  11.  #11Indigo on May 27, 2013 at 9:19 am


    I had that very same guilt tonight. R phoned me at more or less the same time as D skyped me, and I was totally exhausted from my day, and if I am honest I wanted to talk to D more. R could tell I didn’t really want to talk and offered to phone me back tomorrow.

    I expressed a lot of appreciation for his call and said how much it meant to me. But I didn’t really want to talk, and I felt tremendous guilt about that.

  12.  #12Emerson on May 27, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Lately a few of the the men I meet invite me to their house. I’m trying to think back to men I dated when I was younger and was that the case and usually no, not until we were dating a few times and got to know each other. Then he might invite me to cook me dinner…
    Now I’ve had 2 or three men that I met online inviting me to their house straight away. It’s such a turn off. I’ve realized I have a block against men I meet online…. Like I don’t respect them. I don’t know why.
    I’m also feeling so sad because I always had this vision that i would marry and have a family and for me I’m getting older I’m scared it will be too late. Feeling so sad about that. I’ve also been struggling financially for the past year and the stress level is off the charts. I’m treated differently because I don’t have kids. Even by my sisters they don’t invite me on trips etc. I’m feeling very low.

  13.  #13Andrea on May 27, 2013 at 9:44 am

    I’m really understanding something when it comes to the “feeling guilty” about circular dating.

    What I’m learning first of all is that men.. at least none of the men I’m dating… THINK like me. I was feeling guilty because I thought, I wouldn’t want him to circular date. I don’t want him to be seeing any other women. So therefore.. I shouldn’t see any other men.

    The problem is that he DOESN’T feel guilty about flirting with other women, seeing other women, contacting other women, connecting with other women. He JUST LIVES IN THE MOMENT!!!

    It is the moments of ease and passion and fun and connection that keep adding up, those moments that make him want to begin to only connect with me. When he has a choice, not out of guilt, but out of sheer longing for those moments that he associates with only me…. he chooses me.

    The strange thing is, with out circular dating, I can’t give him those moments that he craves. If I’m only invested in him, then soon, all of my hopes, and dreams, and energy, and angst is all focused on him… the “moments” cease… his interest wanes….

    Last night my One Year Relationship guy started in on this long winded diatribe about how he doesn’t like it that I’m “on the market”. That I’m dating other men and that if someone asks him, “Is Andrea still your girlfriend?” He doesn’t know what to answer.

    I was listening to him, then I started really doing the listening at level 2. I started to hear…. less that he was feeling bad about me dating other men, and more that he was feeling inadequate about the idea that I believe he can take care of me fully.

    I didn’t address what he was “saying” at all. Instead I told him, “I really feel like I want to share this with you, when you brought me over to the Cenex and you filled my tank with gas, I felt so taken care of by you. I felt like you really heard my needs and you did what you could to help me. I feel so good right now, so relieved, not having to worry about gas, but so solid and full because I know I can count on you.”

    That was all he needed to hear. He beamed. He pulled me close to him. He stroked my hair, whispered, “You know you can always count on me.”

    And we finished a really great date.
    I haven’t wrapped my mind around WHY it works…. circular dating I mean… I just know that it does. Some how he is more attentive to me, more attracted to me, and leaning way into me…. and it ramps up when I’m not always available to him.

  14.  #14Veronica on May 27, 2013 at 9:56 am

    From the previous thread:
    I’m so enjoying what the sirens are sharing here – thank you.
    Seahorse – 113 – Aw thank you – I admire the tenderness of your response and I love your smiles and giggles. (BM – ha ha yes!)
    I like those little flowers – tiny, purple and all hanging around together. I feel sweetness inside from what you wrote.

    I love this:
    “I was always there, ALL OF ME, always….i am thinking now that I had to slow down and let ME catch up.”
    I feel like a kid and you just told me this magic secret. I’m happy for you, more like a happy delight, a soft rush of ‘yes!’
    Hugs to you

  15.  #15Dominique on May 27, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Smile – Your mind will wander. Everyone’s does. So you keep pulling your mind back, focusing on what your man is saying/doing, what you are saying and doing. Gently keep bringing yourself back. Try to sink into the moment. What ARE you feeling? Can you sink even more deeply? As Tereana suggested, focusing on your breathing can also help as long as this isn’t all you are focusing on and thus taking you away from the moment.


  16.  #16Veronica on May 27, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Andrea – I love how you’re communicating with One Year Relationship guy.

  17.  #17Luzydel on May 27, 2013 at 10:19 am

    I want a man who inspires respect. Not all men are able to do that. Some of them are like carton characters who need a woman to micromanage them. I want a man who knows what he wants and goes for it. Because I will know the day he chooses me, it was because he wanted me and not because I had to give him instructions to do it.

  18.  #18Veronica on May 27, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I can’t work up the courage to cd men yet. I feel very insecure around guys, shaky almost. I notice it, I feel sad and wonder when I will be able to be a little more confident. But I do notice that I’m opening up more, so there’s progress from not speaking and noticing how I feel around men to feeling scared but being a little open. Today I bought something for myself that I’ve been wanting to get for so long. It felt like I was getting love, it means so much to me. I’ve been giddy for most of the afternoon slowly going through the manual. Anyway I was able to tell the salesman how nervous/excited I was and he reassured me. Yay I used an FM even though I didn’t feel confident about myself.

    On the weekend I was listening to a series of lectures. The first ones were presented by women and I was pretty much in my head. Then a male presenter came up and I could feel my body reacting to his masculinity. At first I was worried, wondering if that would interfere with my understanding of the merit of what he was presenting. That didn’t happen thankfully. But thinking back it would have been nice to have been listening to his lecture and enjoying secretly my body’s reaction to him. I love that my body reacted and how it reacted, because I wasn’t having any sexual desire for him, just loving how something of him was calling up something in me. I didn’t have any interest in having anything happen with him. I like that I felt that too.

  19.  #19sophie on May 27, 2013 at 10:45 am


    “It is the moments of ease and passion and fun and connection that keep adding up, those moments that make him want to begin to only connect with me. When he has a choice, not out of guilt, but out of sheer longing for those moments that he associates with only me…. he chooses me.”

    absolutely love this – reducing it to moments and the moments building up.

    also the acknowledgement to ‘i wouldn’t want him to do it to me so i don’t want to do it to him’ yet they don’t think like that anyway…

    I have a lot of fear around being attached to a man and then ‘not chosen’ and someone else is. It’s huge; my biggest trigger; I have that fear at the moment; its not out of control because I’ve been doing everything I can to keep myself and my life feeling good but it’s there and it feels disempowering.

  20.  #20sophie on May 27, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Veronica – I love that your gift to yourself felt like getting love 🙂 🙂 you were!!!!

  21.  #21sophie on May 27, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Emerson (((Hugs))) I wouldn’t like that on the dating sites either – an immediate no no from me – is it worth trying a different site or changing your profile somehow see if it attracts something different?

    The desire for a family is a difficult one and one that is in my mind from time to time. I don’t know how old you are but I still have a bit of time for some hope. Rori’s stuff really helps with that; even Rori’s own story.

  22.  #22sophie on May 27, 2013 at 11:42 am


  23.  #23prplpsn28 on May 27, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Must say I’m feeling really good. Ended up having a great wknd with H. Since he ended up not going to Tennessee we got to spend alot of time together. All his initiating. And thanks to Dominique! You’ve been such a great help. It’s a work in progress for me but am concentrating on all the GOOD and TRUSTING.

  24.  #24Indigo on May 27, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Thank you for the hugs sweet sophie 🙂

  25.  #25Dominique on May 27, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Veronica – 18 – How about CDing the world instead and yourself. Noticing and acknowledging the people you see while out and about as you carry on your day. Making eye contact, smiling, striking up brief or not so brief conversations. And this can be anyone. Doesn’t have to be a man.

    CD yourself, CD your friends.


  26.  #26Powderpuff on May 27, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    Men are like crack…eventhough I’ve never taked drugs I understand how it must feel to be addicted. Here comes my crack again. I saw him standing across the street. I had no way to avert him. He smiled. I was cordial. I walked past and said hello smiling back. But the pull was like crack. So tempting to strike up a conversation. I had once wanted him soooo bad. And I still feel the ache whenever I see him. His memory haunts me…its crack I tell you. But at least I can be proud that I haven’t given in to my addiction. I’ve got to remain strong… Don’t let the drug get you. You can’t avoid the drug. He’s out there and always will be. I have to deal with it. Its painfully hard.

  27.  #27Powderpuff on May 27, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Why can’t I just ignore him! Why do I smile and say hello? I’m so angry with myself for not being able to control myself. Its like a reflex action. I just can’t stop saying “hello” or “hi there” first when I see him. Urgh! I feel so weak. I feel sad because I cannot stop thinking about it and my reaction. I tell myself I’m not going to say anything, but he smiles and I can’t not say hello!! I feel terrible. He can walk past smiling without saying a word…but I can’t. I’m so angry. I want to tell him to Stop smiling at me! Please just ignore me!

    Maybe I should pretend to be preoccupied. Doing something else like texting. Pretending. Not to see him…but I can’t ignore him. He’s just there and my weakness for him is written all over my face.
    I cannot have him. I don’t want him. Its just driving me crazy because he’s this drug that I just can’t seem to detox from.

  28.  #28Jessie1000 on May 27, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    I never say no when d.k. texts me for a date…I think thats chasing in some ways…being too I need more confidence to say no and know that he will call or ask again…Im always sure that being nice is a way to push him away lol but I find it so hard cause I want to hang with him and he knows it…it goes straight to his head lol
    why are things so difficult?

  29.  #29Rori Raye on May 27, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Powerpuff – so, what exactly is wrong with smiling and saying hello to someone? Absolutely nothing, in my book. Try smiling and saying nothing – that might feel better. If he says hello, you can say hello back. And Please stop pummeling yourself for things that you’ve thought, done, said…. you sound quite lovely to me, and working to be aware and exert control over your old patterns – BRAVA to YOU! Love, Rori

  30.  #30Millie on May 27, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Tereana, 7

    Thank you.
    You have said SO much here! I have so much to respond to–

    I would first like to say that I DO worry about STD’s. I have actually had two STD’s, both curable, and I don’t intend to get more. I make a point of having that conversation with a man about his sexual lifestyle before I sleep with him.

    To be honest with you…I want to reform a lot of my methods around dating. I feel that things have not been working for me in the past. Whether sex was “too soon” or whatever, I weigh the physical connection and compatibility a lot. If I feel uncomfortable with them in the bedroom, I will stop seeing them and I’d rather do than sooner than later. But you know…has that been working for me? I feel like I need to focus more on the experience and using feeling messages to navigate that uncomfortableness rather than resorting to my Libra-ness to decisively cut-out a man because I don’t see it working. That I think also ties back to our discussion about intuition. Of course I want the liberty to not see a guy because I don’t want to anymore, but I’m questioning my methods of determining that. I do need to CD, hopefully this summer will open new doors!

  31.  #31Millie on May 27, 2013 at 7:14 pm


    Also- I’ve never really had a GREAT, solid relationship. So my perspectives are based from never having experienced that. I agree a higher difficulty woman is desired more by men, but if she wants, she can have sex quickly and still be considered higher difficulty. It is her emotional muscle, inner strength, and confidence that creates this. Does that make sense? I think that is the point I wanted to arrive at in the previous thread.

  32.  #32Hana on May 27, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    OH MY GOODNESS !! I just had the biggest shock. I was re reading Rori’s ebook, and I was in Chapter 2, of Visualizing what you want. Imagine what a perfect day in a perfect relationship looks like. I had done this exercise once before when I read her book originally. And I was about to re do it again, as I was about to write it, suddenly it dawned on me, What I had written the first time many months ago had actually happened to me last week. WOW, that’s all I can say, is WOW, the power we have to create our own dreams into reality is undeniably true.

    AMAZING, thank you Rori, you are such a gift.

  33.  #33Millie on May 27, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Ladies I have a question:

    Does Rori customize her email newsletters?
    They always have my name in it, but I received one today that seemed specifically tailored to me and what I’ve been writing. Whether it was a fluke or not- the timing is very perfect! I can answer the title- “How Badly Do You Want Him Back?..” Rori, I never really “had” him to begin with…so my answer is: Not THAT bad. 🙂

  34.  #34Emerson on May 27, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    21 thank you Sophie!!

  35.  #35Daria on May 27, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    wow strikes home!

    i know how to do it now!… yay! that speech really works and i used it before and can use it again

    thank you thank you

    this will help me open up again

  36.  #36Daria on May 27, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    today i got my blood… i felt surprised… im healing powerfully

  37.  #37Kath on May 28, 2013 at 12:54 am

    Luzydel, I just wanted to thank you for a comment you gave me on the last post- you flicked a swtich in me and I have been completely different since!- I am leaning back (at last Rori!, I’m doing it!)-I have been light and loving and he is pleasantly surprised- even called me “my Queen! again last night which I’d not heard in ages!- I ‘ve read the Queens Code and am learning from that too and have sussed my man. I know what he needs from me and I know what he needs in order to feel good, strong and able to function at his best-we did meet for a reason and its to learn what a truly loving committed relationship is- I am a strong woman-he is a strong man- but I have to be way more feminine than I have been with him and we will be fine- thank you Ladies for helping me and guiding me to learn so much-I am blessed that I found you all.

  38.  #38sophie on May 28, 2013 at 12:58 am

    Another really sad feeling conversation with fwb cd. I feel all messy. I want neat tidy feelings and neat tidy conversations. The conversations feel like trying to keep jelly on a plate my emotions go wooooo one way then wooooo the next way. I want to be in my power and the second I feel like I’ve lost him I lose my power and feel afraid.

    Only when he’s there in front of me. When he’s not I can organise my thinking.

    Everything I say I feel or want or need he feels it as pressure or an ultimatum. He wants fwb or fwithout b but which still pretty much looks like fwb (physical conntact, romantic texts etc).

    I don’t want a part time lover. I don’t want to be hooked into a waiting for something that might never happen game.

    I have tried to CD him but I still don’t feel good. I feel too vulnerable. I worry that my vibe with other men isn’t quite right cos really I have all these confused feelings about FWB. I feel cross that there seems to be no middle ground. He sees i as we either do his way or my way and when i explain how i feel about his way and how i don’t feel i can do it he sees it as me giving him an ultimatum.

    i have got hooked into trying too hard and as such it is all on his terms. he says he needs emotional space and to feel free for feelings to develop. he says he doesnt know if he is deliberately shutting himself down. he says he knows that anytime he gets close to me he withdraws. he says he may realise if he loses me he’s made the worst mistake of his life.

    I say (not necessarily to him) why do i want this situation thats such a struggle anyway? I say how come HE gets to choose? (:))I say I feel tired. I say I feel upset cos when I share my feelings he feels like he’s failed to make me happy then I feel like I’ve done something wrong 🙁 I say I want to rest and focus on my work, let him work out his own confusions 🙁

    I say i’m going to keep loving me more and more. good to get some of that out. sadness and arrrrgggghhhhh. tired tired tired.

  39.  #39sophie on May 28, 2013 at 2:05 am

    yay daria! yay hana! yay kath!

  40.  #40Sassy on May 28, 2013 at 2:23 am

    Spamming spamming spamming…having the urge to text and I absolutely can not!!!
    Soooo tempting.
    Why did he do this? Why did I allow it to happen again. I feel helpless, sad, mad.

  41.  #41Millie on May 28, 2013 at 3:00 am


    I really like your jello analogy 🙂 I can relate to sometimes feeling your power/feeling messages fly out the window when the person is in front of you. It sounds like you need to get to a place within yourself, where you aren’t afraid to lose him.

    In a way, saying what you want and don’t want is kind of an ultimatum without the “or else” part. You say “I dont want a part time lover.” If he says “All i want IS a part time lover.” Then the “or else” part becomes the consequence of just going your separate ways. In your case it sounds like he wants you to want what he wants and you want him to want what you want, so the pressure begins to build, yet no one is walking away.

    I think when two people don’t want the same kind of relationship, yet they are trying to be together, they just aren’t on the same page. He’s talking about withdrawing, needing emotional space, shutting down, how he needs time…Listen to him, listen to your feelings, but listen to him too. You are offering all these great feeling messages as if you are in a relationship, but he’s already said he doesn’t want that. He either has to step up and deal with your feelings and “change” what he wants or walk away. So, to me, yeah, I can see how he is seeing this as some sort of ultimatum or choice, especially because you are choosing to remain in the picture.

    I hope I didn’t overanalyze too much…I tend to do that.

    so tired–goodnight sirens!

  42.  #42Veronica on May 28, 2013 at 3:28 am

    Sophie – 20 – : )

    Dominique – 25 – Thank you for the suggestion. I think I’ve been too passive on the CD myself/ the world front. I’m afraid of being active – I’ll have to explore that more. Do you perhaps know where I can get more examples of CD myself/ the world to stimulate my boy into a planning frenzy? Oh yes, if possible I would really like your input on this question: how do I CD without comparing my experience to BM’s or anyone else’s? I’m so stuck in that.

  43.  #43April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 5:11 am


    I fel intrigued that you play dominoes! In my mind I have a picture of old men in a quiet corner of an English pub.

    Is it the same kind of dominoes? The black pieces of wood with white dots on them?

  44.  #44April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 5:13 am


    Hang in there!
    What happened. More importantly, how are you feeling?

  45.  #45BeLoved on May 28, 2013 at 5:57 am


    April Rose – I’m grinning…lol…
    Yes, those little pieces with the dots (my set is white, the one I play with most is blue with white dots, they come in all colors).
    I live in Texas, grew up in the backwoods and come from hardy redneck stock, there’s nothing quiet about our games 🙂
    Imagine – a juicy, bubbly trash-talking white woman surrounded by 2 or 3 big black men, slamming dominoes, shouting and a lot of drama. The table shakes, the dominoes fly- my nickname is Ev!l Incarnate.
    It’s my favorite outlet to be totally uncivilized and sharpen and hone and let loose my predatory instincts. Sort of the opposite of what you’re thinking *giggling*.

  46.  #46Veronica on May 28, 2013 at 6:02 am

    I think that the situation the article describes is what is happening with BM and me. After telling me he wanted to still be in contact he either deflects contact or doesn’t do any contact at all. None of this makes sense to me. I feel so bad and so cast off – I want to just cut off any link to him. I feel so starved of interaction. It’s as if any interaction with him would have to be initiated by me. Sirens please help. What’s stopping me from just unfriending him is that I have this hope that maybe things will get better.

  47.  #47April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 6:07 am

    Wow, Beloved,

    I feel excited hearing that! It feels juicy and sharp and fun. I wanna play!!
    Is it a game of skill or chance?

  48.  #48Veronica on May 28, 2013 at 6:20 am

    I’ve done the no-contact thing. I’ve given him space. I’m always speaking in FMs to him. I’ve done the leaning back. I don’t initiate contact when I’m hoping for a response from him. I’ve done the ‘I can’t do friendship because I have romantic feelings for you’. I feel like cutting my losses. I honestly don’t know what to do anymore. I’m hoping for something from a black hole.

  49.  #49Sassy on May 28, 2013 at 6:40 am

    April Rose,

    Thank you,

    It’s just the same ole same ole. Bad boy player meets clueless, insecure, low self esteem good girl.
    They flirt, she chases him, has s/x with him too soon, he hides out in his man cave, she freaks, he uses her over and over, she chases when he gets quiet, he ignores her for a bit.
    They spend some real quality time finally for awhile. She goes on vacation, he calls her and tells her he has feelings, loves her, blah blah and when she comes home it’s…
    Tadaaaaa lather rinse repeat!
    This is between 2009 and jan 2012. Didn’t see him for over a year, he did try but it was strictly for sex, so I kept declining his offers…
    Two weeks ago, I gave in, went to him, had a brief encounter
    and guess what??? He’s back to ignoring me.
    So I’ve changed my game, I’m not initiating. Eventually he will text me again. My plan, hope is to be strong enough to keep ignoring or at the very least, to tell him to just leave me alone.

  50.  #50BeLoved on May 28, 2013 at 6:46 am

    April Rose

    It’s a little of both – the chance part comes with the luck of the draw, each player draws 7 or 9 dominoes to begin. The skill comes from making the best of what you get, learning to read what others have by what they play or don’t play, being able to count quick, and predicting what others will or won’t play…so for example, I play with D, he’s more difficult to set up because he doesn’t underestimate me so I have to play a certain way with him that confuses him and be more unpredictable and play in a way that doesn’t make sense.

    If I play C, he’s easier to set up because greed will get him nearly every time, most people I play with are that way – they won’t turn down 10 points if they can get it, without realizing that I ‘let’ them score because I’ve got a strategy to turn it around in my favor.

  51.  #51Dominique on May 28, 2013 at 7:10 am

    sophie – 38 – How much of what you feel GOOD about are you expressing? How much are you appreciating what he does for you or says to you which feels GOOD?

    This shift in your perspective could very well shift the whole thing with him. It will certainly give you more clarity.


  52.  #52April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 7:11 am


    Seems like Rori’s posting is relevant to your situation.

    I finally got it today, reading this
    “… he’s stringing you along, because he’s playing with your heart, because he hasn’t the slightest idea – he’s utterly clueless -what it feels like on your end of this…”

    “He is USELESS to you!!!!

    Your body and mind need to completely detox from him!!!!

    NO – you should NOT be friends!!!!

    Do not go anywhere or do ANYTHING with him. Nothing!

    Do what you’re doing with these other men.

    This is how you’ll get what you want.”

    Sassy, do you know what the relationship you want would feel like?
    Have you got Targeting Mr Right?

  53.  #53Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Millie – think synchronicity. The Universe conspires to give you what you need.

  54.  #54Dominique on May 28, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Veronica – 42 – Just STOP. When you find yourself going there, just stop, and gently direct your thoughts elsewhere, over and over and over again if you have to.

    And remember CDing yourself isn’t a ploy to get him to do anything. It’s for YOU, to help YOU feel better, more filled up and thus shift your energy. Shift it to a more inviting, better feeling energy.


  55.  #55Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 7:14 am

    RE 43 – April Rose old men? Even my 14 year old plays it and loves it. It can be a very mentally challenging gymnastic game.

  56.  #56Sassy on May 28, 2013 at 7:21 am

    April Rose,

    Yes this post is very relevant.

    I believe I have alot more healing to do before I can concentrate on the kind of relationship that I would feel good in.

    No, don’t have any programs except the Ebook
    and this heart saving blog.

  57.  #57Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Sassy – your experience sounds like my own story. I could write the same exact thing. I stopped the sex though I do feel he is the One. He always seems to mention that there is chemistry.

  58.  #58Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 8:23 am

    I believe I have alot more healing to do before I can concentrate on the kind of relationship that I would feel good in.

    I challenge this type of belief in my own conscious/unconsciousness. I am worthy of a relationship without being perfect.

  59.  #59Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Use these magic words from our “Magic Relationship Words” course…

    “Can you help me to understand?”

    Doing this in a non-confrontational way builds bridges instead of building resentments and misunderstandings–and clears up any fuzzy communication that’s gotten in the way of creating more love.

    Our best to you,

    Susie and Otto Collins

  60.  #60sophie on May 28, 2013 at 8:37 am

    51 Dominique – thank you for commenting – I’m sharing all the good things LOADS and LOADS of appreciation seriously 🙂 and I have seen and felt the affect of that with him keep coming forward but I am just tangling myself in knots as I know he means it when he says what his feelings are at the moment and I do not want to be attached to him when he is not to me.

    I have previous with this…long periods of time seeing men who don’t offer me what I need. I have been trying to CD both myself and others and i’ve definitely made progress. It feels frustrating to repeat the same stuff time and time again.

  61.  #61sophie on May 28, 2013 at 8:49 am

    thank you millie – no not over-analyzing – you stressed for me the stuck feeling very well – we’re not on the same page yet are/were trying to make it work.

    i need to think too about what you said about not being in a relationship but speaking like I am – yes very confusing. Sometimes I can feel my vibe is in a good place other times and I feel ok sometimes I go into ‘analyse’ and ‘fix’ mode and then its not. Particularly if i’m tired which I am a lot.

    i don’t think I am that afraid of losing him. I think I’m feeling a bit hooked in. I can shift that I know I can :)…

  62.  #62Millie on May 28, 2013 at 8:59 am

    @Sassy 49

    “lather rinse repeat.”
    I know….

    Sometimes I imagine I am a siren on the shores of Crete, perched on a rock, my mermaid tail curled behind me, my chest sunkissed, my breasts peak out from beneath my hair, wavy in its natural state, flowing…I feel so beautiful as I sing and smile out into the ocean. The view is breathtaking. Some ships are lured by the siren call…others pass by and become a small shape on the horizon. When I imagine this, the sun on my face, how beautiful I feel in my body…I feel serene, confident, and happy-watching the ships come and go in the sea that is my realm.

    Be strong–You can give yourself the gift of letting him go.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 9:29 am

    “That’s right – I like to learn from men.

    My good friend, Carol Allen, (Vedic astrologer and relationship coach), agrees. Her favorite thing is learning about men from men, too. But not just any men. Carol likes finding out what men want from men who’ve made it their life’s mission to understand other men.

    So she sat down with eight of the world’s leading male relationship experts and interviewed them at length about what men are thinking, and what attracts them and wows them in a woman (and what makes them want to commit!), for a program called, “What Men Want.”

    What she learned from these amazing men (all of whom are authors, and many of whom have worked with thousands – even hundreds of thousands – of men!) forever changed her understanding of and appreciation for men.

    You see, when you know how to give a man what he wants, you’ll get what you want.

    And a soulmate relationship ensues.Here is just a small sampling of the golden nuggets that come from these incredible men:
    •The men said they were THRILLED when a woman made the first move, and that many men DO NOT love the chase as they’ve been hurt or rejected a lot.
    •If you make men feel great about themselves, and that you truly care about them, they’ll WANT to commit. Being needy or clingy, bossy or pushy are the top reasons men withdraw.
    •Thousands of men surveyed said what they want MOST from us in bed is an emotional connection.
    •All of the experts insist that men want to fall in love as much as women do.
    •Despite what you’ve heard, the men swear we SHOULDN’T be dating multiple guys if we really like one as many men find this a turn off, and become intimidated even if they’re strong and confident.

    Carol is one of my favorite relationship experts, and the men she’s gathered are among my favorite men! (Seriously, these guys are all great and they really know their stuff – Evan Marc Katz, Christian Carter, David Wygant, Jonathon Aslay, Alex Allman, Larry Michel, Adam Gilad, Dr. Ali Binazir… there’s even a bonus interview with Mat Boggs.)”

    Got this from Arielle Ford

  64.  #64Dominique on May 28, 2013 at 9:42 am

    sophie – 60 – Good, awesome. Now when the same thing keeps showing up for you, then there is something you still need to learn and heal from.

    Here are two articles relating to this.


  65.  #65Dominique on May 28, 2013 at 9:42 am

  66.  #66April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 9:54 am


    I feel confused about your comment 57
    ” I stopped the sex though I do feel he is the One. He always seems to mention that there is chemistry.”

    What’s this about? Is it a man you’ve been dating? What do you mean he is the One?
    Can a man be the One if he is not offering you the relationship you want?

  67.  #67April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 9:58 am


    Part of healing involves allowing yourself to imagine/experience/feel what you truly want deep in your heart.

    Can you imagine yourself feeling good about you? Feeling loved? Feeling sweet happy sensations in your heart?

  68.  #68R.N.AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 10:07 am

    The number one thing to mastering the artof love is be yourself, love it, own it, and treasure it. This way when you offer someone your heart they will feel like the best thing since sliced bread 🙂

  69.  #69R.N.AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 10:13 am

    I remember when I perceived someone as liking, loving me, I was the lucky one. Well what i have learned I am loving me and owning my heart and how I feel. That means anyone that experiences me..the real me, they cannot help but adore me. I am just waiting to see if one day that I am adored by another that they make sure they make it known that once they had me they would neverlet me go!

  70.  #70R.N.AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 10:26 am

    I used to care so much what others thought about me especially men. Well in the pastcouple of years I found this little girl hiding inside of me scared to death and rescued her. I told her how amazing she was and how anyone would be as so lucky to have me. I told her that her beauty was endless in life and that she could stop crying, pretending, playing games to protect herself from boredom. Atthe end of the day you only have yourself to thank for occurences. Good and Bad you cannot control other but you sure do have strength and control of your actions, that was the key. I had it inside me the whole time but needed a lil direction and it is ok to do that. I am happy being me of course we all have flaws that we may not like but we are individuals. I love that I can walk into a room and people talk and scare and maybe even say a comment not nice or disrespectful. I turn my head and smile and continue whole heartedly living my happy life. I took my spare keys from everyone and knew thiswas gonna start an awesome stress free life. I dont freak like before. I am layed back and let thed world move and just move with it at my own pace. The focus is for me…family and kids..anyone else that wants in take a number and the last man served will be the first to win the prize!

  71.  #71Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Today’s Daily Inspiration

    No road is too long for him who advances slowly and does not hurry, and no attainment is beyond his reach who equips himself with patience to achieve it.

    — Jean de La Bruyere

  72.  #72R.N.AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 10:41 am

    @71 that is s true.!

  73.  #73Turquoise on May 28, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Hi Sirens. C (my ex husband) and I are taking the girls on vacation together to Disney in July for a week. We have been getting along pretty well and it’s about the girls, so hopefully will all go smoothly and we have a good time. He was just here for the weekend, I only saw him a little bit, and it’s amazing to see the difference in him on the day he arrives to the day he leaves. He looks so stressed when he leaves. I know his job is very stressful and he misses the girls. I feel bad seeing him look so tense and serious. So different than when we were young. I wonder how different I look and act, than my young self did?

  74.  #74Turquoise on May 28, 2013 at 11:03 am

    A lot of my friends ask why we aren’t back together. The answer really is, because he doesn’t want to be. All the great stuff he does, it’s not for that reason. Which is ok. It shows you can be a good person and kind and giving, without an expectation. He’s not perfect, neither am I, and we struggled being married, but we do pretty well now, and I’m really happy about that. I’m glad our girls get to spend time with both of us, especially a fun vacation. Building good memories is important to me. 🙂

  75.  #75sophie on May 28, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Dominique – thank you so much for the articles – beautifully written and a beautiful reminder.

    The reminder for me was to stop fearing any pain that that something may bring and trust in the process of learning and as you so poignantly remind growing more deeply into loving Goddessy ways.

    I get fearful that the lesson I’m not learning is to walk immediately away; that somehow I am failing this lesson and that by staying I am just awaiting my punishment if I am left for another (when I get into feeling like this I want to do and fix things it doesnt feel good). On the other side this man is also teaching me a lot more about myself. I have looked at this pattern in relation to deep childhood issues (it took my father until I was thirty to SEE what a wonderful daughter he had and begin to demonstrate love to me). It doesnt surprise me that I play a waiting game with men but as I can see it I can begin to do the inner work around KNOWING I am wonderful and lovable and worthy and a ‘prize 🙂 without anyone else’s validation.

    I have practiced a lot over the last 6 months keeping my sense of self and self worth in place regardless of whatever this man has been doing and that has been positive. I’ve practised being able to give someone else their emotional space without freaking out and this has been valuable. I’ve learnt the art of appreciating this man for what he does do and not judging him or criticising him on what he doesn’t do. There have been lots of GREAT positives. All of this is ok. It’s when I take my focus away from the positives and start being fearful about things that may never happen that I lose my way. One day at a time feels good right now.

    Thank you again Dominique really lovely; a gentle reminder to stay on the courageous path; to be brave even if you get another hard knock cos really everything, regardless of its form, everything will be ok.

  76.  #76prplpsn28 on May 28, 2013 at 11:32 am

    This whole facebook thing with H just drives me totally insane! I’ve been told by several to not worry about it but I do. And I have no idea how to handle/deal with it. Have brought it up with H in the past but hasn’t really resolved anything.

  77.  #77Dominique on May 28, 2013 at 11:33 am

    sophie – yes, yes, yes!!! 🙂


  78.  #78Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 11:42 am

    prplpsn – Again I ask why is it that you are FB stalking him? Can’t you see that it is only hurting you and the relationship?

  79.  #79prplpsn28 on May 28, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    I’m not fb stalking him. Whenever I go on to check my stuff and do my thing his name pops up. Whatever. I’m done with the whole fb crap.

  80.  #80sophie on May 28, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    @77 🙂

  81.  #81Millie on May 28, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    @ FW 71–Beautiful 🙂 and synchronicity…the universe is good!

    @Sophie 75–I love what you wrote. How he is a part of your process…I’m happy to hear that despite your frustrations, you feel your growth!

  82.  #82Andrea on May 28, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Re: Femininewoman # 63

    “Here is just a small sampling of the golden nuggets that come from these incredible men:
    •The men said they were THRILLED when a woman made the first move, and that many men DO NOT love the chase as they’ve been hurt or rejected a lot.
    •If you make men feel great about themselves, and that you truly care about them, they’ll WANT to commit. Being needy or clingy, bossy or pushy are the top reasons men withdraw.
    •Thousands of men surveyed said what they want MOST from us in bed is an emotional connection.
    •All of the experts insist that men want to fall in love as much as women do.
    •Despite what you’ve heard, the men swear we SHOULDN’T be dating multiple guys if we really like one as many men find this a turn off, and become intimidated even if they’re strong and confident.”

    I feel such a personal response to this information. I have to say that in my own journey I found all much of this to be true.
    The part about “men are THRILLED when women make the first move” I found to be very true. I was always Thrilling men and pleasing men and I was very adept at finding out what THEY liked. Men liked it when I made the first move because then they got to slow down, lean way back, check out other options, while I did all the work. Why wouldn’t they be thrilled.
    The problem was I was NOT HAPPY making the first move.

    So much more to say about every one of those different statements but I wanted to say something about my own path. I first found C. Carter, and the EM Katz, and then read alot of David W. All last year I was poring over material and watching videos about What MEN Want.

    And still I was missing something. My relationships still sucked even though I thought I was doing the exercizes. I thought I was understanding the practices. Here’s a strange thing that happened once I stumbled upon Rori’s work: I started concentrating on What Does ANDREA Want.

    Maybe, in all of the other materials that I was reading, there were messages about finding and loving myself first…. but I just wasn’t hearing them until for some reason… Rori’s blogs and e-book changed my focus.

    Some of the men relationship experts talk about how men don’t think circular dating is a good idea. I don’t circular date because MEN think it’s a good idea. I don’t circular date in order to get or keep a man. I circular date because it gives me the boost and the confidence I need to feel like a siren. And for some reason… the same men who told me that they didn’t want me to circular date… are know commenting on how intriguing, exciting, and sexy I am. They knew me before…. but now, they say.. I have an edge. They WANT to spend time with me. They COVET my availability. I just got asked today if I would set aside some time for a Saturday date of golfing.

    When I was studying the works of C Carter and the other men relationship experts…. my focus was on MEN. How could I get a MAN and KEEP a MAN.

    Now… my focus is on me. How can I be ecstatic with myself and MY LIFE whether I have a man or not. And.. counter intuitively…. that has made all the difference. Now I’m feeling overwhelmed kind of with all of the dates I’m getting, and with how my one relationship that I’ve mainly been focusing is getting better and better.

    I’m not putting down the work of male relationship experts. I’m just saying that for some reason… I wasn’t getting the answers I needed… I needed to stop thinking about what men want, and start focusing on what I want. Why that makes me more attractive to the opposite sex is still an enigma… .but it does!!

  83.  #83Turquoise on May 28, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Andrea, I wish there was a like button! Very well said! 🙂

  84.  #84Hana on May 28, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Hi beautiful Sirens! Hi Rori, I am so incredibly confused. I let Amir back into my life, but I feel like things got too fast. He has dissapeared since Sunday night, no contact since. I haven’t felt very good the last few times we were together. I feel like I may need to let him go altogether finally. I feel too much for him and he can’t offer me what I want. How do I go about this? Do I just stop talking to him cold turkey?

    I’m very heartbroken! But I need to face the reality. 🙁

  85.  #85Hana on May 28, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Veronica, I am feeling your pain, I really don’t know what to do.

  86.  #86Hana on May 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Just heard Listen to your heart …by heart on the radio, just both nearly paralyzed me then gave me another bit of strength to really just follow with what my heart wants and deserves. I deserve more, and I’m going to have to let him know… We have sexual exclusivity afterall

  87.  #87April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 2:35 pm


    I LOVE this:

    ” I don’t circular date because MEN think it’s a good idea. I don’t circular date in order to get or keep a man. I circular date because it gives me the boost and the confidence I need to feel like a siren.”

  88.  #88April Rose on May 28, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I wanted to draw your attention to post number 82, written by Andrea.
    Thought it would make a great posting, as it’s a tribute to how your work helps women who have tried the advice of the male coaches and found something missing.

  89.  #89Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Hana lean back. See what he does. Assume he is dealing with his issues. See what he says when he comes back. He might very well be debating with himself aboit moving the relationship forward.

  90.  #90Femininewoman on May 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Andrea – awesome awareness

  91.  #91Rori Raye on May 28, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    April Rose – Thank you for steering me to this, and Andrea – I’m going to post #82 for the world to see – if that’s not okay with you, or you want me to change your name, please let me know. Just write Love, Rori

  92.  #92BeLoved on May 28, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    I’m noticing something verrrry interesting in myself…

    I’m doing a psychological profile on POF, and noticed I was answering the questions in a skewed way. One question was about wanting a partner with money, and I thought of T, and how he doesn’t have much, and it certainly isn’t invested in his future, and was leaning towards answering the questions as if T were my ideal partner and comparing what I want to him.

    Then I remembered, right before I first started dating T, I filled out an OLD profile, then immediately after I met him I changed my whole entire profile and what I was looking for to match HIM…
    f*cked up weirdness.

    11 years ago, when I owned my own business, I felt like I deserved a man with plenty of money, and I’ve downgraded my life ridiculously since then trying to make T okay for me or something.

    I’ve practiced brining my mind and my heart back from focusing on him several times of the past few days…and have been wondering if I can get those pieces of me back again, and find somewhere inside of me what I really want, whether I believe I deserve it or not.


  93.  #93Ignis on May 28, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    What I feel is most difficult in stopping to chase him is the part when the guilt feeling kicks in. Like it feels I am not a good person because I stopped caring, though I am extremely caring person. Guess it is still left overs from the two years long toxic situation. I managed to stay strong and stay away for 20 days and then everything exploded. How do you find a balance between stopping and still feeling good enough about it to actually stick to it? 🙂

  94.  #94Hana on May 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Feminine, ok, I will lean back and watch, observe, it is hard! I will focus on me and find some new dates… From your experience, what should I look for as a positive come “back” on his part? What would a negative come “back” look like?

    I’m going dancing tonight, I rewarded myself for not txting or contacting him by buying new hot pink salsa sandals, and I will go dancing tonight. If he shows up I hope I find my way… Thank you !! Xo

  95.  #95Hana on May 28, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Ignis, I hear you, I used to feel that way. Now, I’m just filled with anxiety lol. BUT, Men like coming to you, they want to give to you, by receiving you are showing your feminity caring…

  96.  #96Luzydel on May 28, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    @37 Kath

    YW! It is not easy; but sometimes you have to leave the man row the boat and if you don’t like where is heading you can simply just leave.

  97.  #97Daria on May 28, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    i feel frustrated… i don’t have electrical sensitivity anymore but i still don’t like to have my phone on on my body or when im in the car or be around someone with their phone on in a car or even on them really…

    and i feel kinda uncomfortable wioth this and dating…

    i feel sad and uncomfortable asking men to turn their phones off when we’re together (even tho so far most have, except for getright, who i’ve avoided or left quickly when he didnt)

    and i feel all sad and like it will be hard to date now, especially cuz teh last month or two i havent much, due to way high electrical sensitivity where i wasnt checking my phone or online at all


  98.  #98Daria on May 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    i wanna chase him right now

  99.  #99Daria on May 28, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    or at least one of my guy friends…

    im actually getting stuff doen around the house… but i don’t feel as satisfied and fulfilled as when i first started getting stuff done around the house…

  100.  #100Luzydel on May 28, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    Yuck! was writing back and forth with a POF guy and he suddenly got too personal asking things that felt uncomfortable, he didn’t stop even when I said it made me feel uncomfortable, so I had to block him… yuck! I felt pressured I can see how some men may feel if we push too hard for something they are not ready to give.

  101.  #101R.N AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    its so true if u want some exciitement and people to practice on I should hit the club. just casual. O dont mind going and people watching alone scary at first but then awesome…where to go?? closest is closest is crossroads. 5 minutes away is a good thing but it very hit and miss. jd’s i like. 🙂 Just more going on and i may just date myself practicing all the tool from rori snd u all. Thanks for support, what to wear!!!!!!!Do i dress up lil show my class or my 7ss…lol

  102.  #102R.N.AmazingMe on May 28, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    moderation screwed up my own

  103.  #103Ignis on May 28, 2013 at 6:15 pm


    I am totally aware of that. And I love that about men. I generally think men are awesome. Just that I find it difficult to stick to my boundaries and still feel like I am being myself with that one. I feel so many things at once I am even driving myself crazy, so I think he is very brave to bear with me so long anyway 🙂

    This one, he just triggers me like nobody else ever has done about things noone did before ..guess this is what toxic to the power of 1000 is 🙂

  104.  #104Syreena on May 28, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    I love that Andrea.

  105.  #105Andrea on May 28, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Rori, yes, you may definitely use anything I post here. It pales in comparison to how I really feel. I’m so astonished at how my life and attitude has changed toward myself and relationships.

    Have to admit though that I just re-read post # 82 and feel a little self conscious about all the typos. phfff…. : )

  106.  #106Olivia on May 28, 2013 at 6:50 pm


    “I was listening to him, then I started really doing the listening at level 2. I started to hear…. less that he was feeling bad about me dating other men, and more that he was feeling inadequate about the idea that I believe he can take care of me fully.”

    Thanks for this reminder about how true listening is so amazing!

  107.  #107Olivia on May 28, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    OMG I love post #82 as well.

    My bf occasionally still complains in a exasperated “you crazy women” sweet way about how I like to be called, and he just doesn’t get it, and it would just be easier if I called HIM more…

    This is a great reminder to stick to my guns…I say “oh it feels so good when you come get me and I like being gotten.” And then he kisses me and forgets about it for a good while until he brings it up again. I suppose if he locks me down it won’t be so much of an issue anymore and he’ll stop bringing it up. 🙂

    He keeps coming for me even though I know he thinks I am stubborn and doesn’t get it…

    It’s my secret. 🙂

  108.  #108Daria on May 28, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    well i needn’t have worried about dates cuz i just got booked to meet a new man tomorrow! 🙂

    and tonite Dman wanted to maybe hang out (and he’s driving here to see me, he has a car now and he is actually broken up with his daughter’s mother – but we’re chillin as friends)


    this electrical hypersensitivity thing really feels bad /viby to me though, i am hoping that thing i wanna buy will work but i feel afraid it wont

    even now my hands feel uncomfortable typing

  109.  #109Daria on May 28, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    it keeps me from feeling happy speaking on the phone to men… 🙁

  110.  #110Liz on May 28, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Uggg.. having a bit of a panic attack.. so I hope someone is there who can help. Ive been posting for a while now.. and my guy.. well things are NOT good. We have barely spoken in about a month. It started when he blew me off (not returning my calls ) 3x in a row, for plans that we had that he initiated. I tried to talk to him, when finally I said.. listen, this isn’t good.. there is something wrong.. and I don’t know what to do about it, I just know that I need to focus on myself so that I can be strong enough to deal with whatever this is.. he called me 1.5 days later.. and I didn’t respond for 10 days. I couldn’t talk to him, I was so frustrated and angry.. and I told him that.. and that I needed to center myself… When I did call, we talked briefly and he tried to skip over everything like it didn’t happen. but then he said, he realized why I had done it… but that it would only get me further from what I wanted.. so, he was fine at first then got angry, complaining, not just about me and how I didn’t understand, but also about others in his life.. ( I mentioned that he was going through a lot in the last 6 months..) so I listened, then he had to go… he said he would call me that night when he was home, and he didn’t. The next morning he called and said he was sorry for not calling, that he had gotten home late… I said – no problem, don’t worry about it, we talked about a few more non serious things, then hung up as I had an appointment. That was 5 days ago and nothing. Im a little panicked.. we have been having serious problems for months now… and I have finally spoken up for myself in the last 2 months… Ive started filling my time with my own things since he constantly says how busy he is.. although it seems he has time for his friends and not me.. don’t know what to do.. but writing this out is helpful.. Dominique has been following my story.. this is a bit of an SOS… ; ((

  111.  #111Daria on May 28, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    im feeling SO much better… the intensity with the images of Securityman coming up in my mind is so much lighter…

    so much lighter!!!

    dating so helps me heal my broken hearts!



    /i love you daria11111


    so yes, i feel all smily now thinking of SecurityMan…

    i am so not trippin!!!

    omgosh exciting!!

    i feel like im able to receive from him if he does show up, instead of pine and blame!

  112.  #112Daria on May 28, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    why am i so cool!!!!

    🙂 🙂

    Thank you Daria for washing my hair!

  113.  #113Daria on May 28, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    “Truth Is Overrated

    In a materialistic society, we form the habit of taking objective “truth” too seriously. One of the gifts of parenthood is that children give us an excuse to relax about objective truths and revive our natural appreciation of felt (subjective) truths.

    When a five-year-old boy says, “I’m going to eat this WHOLE watermelon right now!” he’s telling his truth for that moment. If his mother says, “Don’t be silly! That melon is twenty times the size of your stomach!” the richness of his heartfelt truth is lost to both of them.

    Today, notice how you respond to your child’s “childish” statements. Put aside what you “know” and let yourself feel your child’s truth.

    Enjoy the feeling of connection made possible by your willingness to share your child’s perspective… Now that’s power!

    * Share this groove: (Web/Facebook/Twitter)

  114.  #114Daria on May 28, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    i feel a lil piny reading that because i thought of Securityman and how some of his truths are “he loves me”

    “he wants to go with me to florida”

    “he might have to have me all to himself”

    and now i feel a bit angry/ nauseaus that he also “wants to keep both of you” euffff

    i feel way happy im ina much better feeling place right now and ‘moving on’ by having dates

    i am wondering if not having dates set up was what kept me in the piny place so intensely this time

  115.  #115Daria on May 28, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    now i wana call Dman to see r we still kickin it …

    and I DONT want to cuz i wanna get myself used to leaning all the way back again (after i got all out of it going to see Securityman lately and some guy friends before him)

  116.  #116Daria on May 28, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    i feel guilty surrounding Liz’s-plea-for-help post

  117.  #117Daria on May 28, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    if Dman stands me up tonite (looks likely) they were plans ‘if he’s not doing anything” lol

    then i might feel piny until my new man date tomorrow

    i feel excited and numb to be prepared for this piny feelings

  118.  #118Andrea on May 28, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Hi Liz… I was reading some of the back posts and I came across this one that seemed to be pertinent to your situation:

    Not sure if the link will work but if you type it into your address bar you should get there. I hope it helps.

  119.  #119Veronica on May 28, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Hana – 85- Thank you, your acknowledgement is comforting. I hope all goes well with you soon.

    Dominique – 54 – Thank you. I’ve been using the ‘STOP’ since yesterday and after a while it does work. I just have to keep at it. CD for me, for my happiness – thank you, I needed this as I’m so stuck I couldn’t think in those terms quite so easily.

    Andrea – 82 – Oh yes, I’m so glad you wrote that because I was feeling conflicted about the list of what men wanted. Way way way before I got to know of Rori’s work, I had noticed that I couldn’t really respect a man if he didn’t make the first move, it was almost as though he were showing me that he couldn’t take responsibility for his feelings/affections. It felt like unequal labour – I have to bring myself and then also make sure I prompt him into the relationship – no way! And the guys who were interested in me really detested that I wasn’t approaching them, falling for them, swooning because you know, they looked at me. At the time I was sad because even though I wanted things to develop somehow there was this incredible resistance in my body to not make the first move. Now I’m like: Veronica you rock, even when you had no support and you were all alone in that, you rocked it like a Queen!

  120.  #120Veronica on May 28, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Liz – hugs to you. I don’t have much experience nor wisdom – I do want to comfort you though. Even though I don’t respond to a lot of posts, for the above reasons, I do read them and I do hear you.

  121.  #121Vi on May 29, 2013 at 1:05 am

    I feel peaceful listening to the sounds of rain behind the window..

  122.  #122Millie on May 29, 2013 at 3:18 am

    @Vi 119- <3

    @Liz–Hi, I am not familiar with your story, but was wondering did something happen between you to cause him to not answer your calls regarding the plans he made? Did something happen prior to him making those plans that may have threw off the dynamic? I'm curious as to what you would say your serious problems were/are prior to this incident?

  123.  #123Indigo on May 29, 2013 at 3:29 am

    I’m in a very funny position where D is treating me like sh*t (ok, I am very triggered right now, so forgive me for how any of this comes out) and R is treating me like a goddess.

    D’s treatment has brought all my fears rushing to the surface. Have felt utterly exhausted and drained over the last few days, took the day off work today because I have been pushing and pushing myself, and on Monday and Tuesday I was like a walking zombie. (love to me, the biggest hugest loves)

    And then I was with R last night and he spoilt me and treated me gently and with so much affection, and hugged away all my bad feelings. He was so affectionate and understanding and warm I felt as if I was sinking into a huge, warm cloud.

    *Sigh* I want to heal. I want to get there. I hope I am able to have a good rest today.

  124.  #124Liz on May 29, 2013 at 3:49 am

    Hi Millie – well what has been going on is that for several months he has been busy with work projects for his company. And we have had several talks about spending time together. All initiated by me. I tried to let him know what I needed, and he would make promises then not follow through. This has been for quite a while now. The only thing that happened is that I didn’t call for him back for 10 days and I had prior to that told him that I was going to have to start taking better care of myself with regard to him and that if something like that happened and I felt I was going to be very upset, that it would be better for me to step back, deal with my feelings and then get back to him. So, its been on and off with him canceling plans, not showing up, promises, then nothing. He has been giving on and off with these work projects being the excuse.

  125.  #125Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 4:51 am

    Liz – 109 – I’m so sorry sweetheart. There really isn’t much you can do aside from taking care of you. This has been a pattern with him, seems to be always an excuse.

    You might consider a heart-to-heart. If nothing else it will help you gain clarity for yourself.


  126.  #126Indigo on May 29, 2013 at 4:56 am

    Andrea 82

    I agree with you completely. Whilst the work of these male coaches is all very well, I don’t think they are aware of how much their work encourages you to put the focus on the man – on what he feels, thinks, likes, what makes him tick – and not on yourself.

    Not saying those things don’t matter, but what good is it if you feel like a low self-esteem shell of a person? Some of us have no trouble attracting men, and even keeping them, yet are not happy. That is where Rori and Dominique’s stuff really excels and helps hugely.

  127.  #127Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 5:47 am

    Indigo – regarding D, maybe asking yourself the tough question “why am I there” and really sinking into your heart might help.

    Liz my opinion is that maybe whatever has been happening between you two has caused him, maybe even unconsciously, move you down on the list of his priorities. I believe your best choice right now would be not to panic but to get things in your life that you are passionate about. Maybe something you have wanted to do but have kept putting it off.

  128.  #128Indigo on May 29, 2013 at 6:33 am

    FW 125, of course you and everyone else have been asking me that question.

    I cannot explain it in terms that really make sense, even to me, except to say that I feel I have been on a healing journey and he has been a part of it.

    It really is time for me to turn towards what feels better though now.

  129.  #129Veronica on May 29, 2013 at 6:39 am

    Indigo – Is there any way to carry on healing without D in the picture? I’m asking for my own healing too.

  130.  #130Hana on May 29, 2013 at 6:39 am

    You’re welcome Veronica. It feels so comforting to be blogging here, I feel supported and understood.

    Feminine, I feel like giving you a gift for all your thoughtfullness, you listen and read to everyone with such a real effort, it is impressive. You’re lovely.

    I am looking good, I’m feeling equally as good this morning. I danced all night, no A in sight, and I don’t know why. It’s still been since Sunday Night that I heard from him. I don’t know what’s going on, and last night I took your advice and leaned back, it felt fantastic and liberating, and the men around me felt the energy shift in me, it’s awesome! I got home late at night, it was pouring rain and as I went out of the car, I got wet, my shoes felt cold and heavy and I just broke down and cried helplessly, I get more strength out of working on myself when men pull back in my life, but I feel really defeated and I surrender. I don’t feel like waiting around, and I won’t. I want to be kinder to me, to be around men who have so much to give me and want to. I am going to love myself more, give myself more, pour love into my children, and circular date men who feel good.

    I don’t need to feel committed to A, we are only exclusive sexually and know each other for a long time yes, but after the long seperation, I don’t really owe him anything. I owe myself to be around people who want to be around me, and want to know on a regular basis how I’m feeling.

    I had a date for today from POF guy, he sounds ok, but I just didn’t feel like meeting him because I’m so busy with my sons 5th birthday party, and finding a new job. Is it ok that I put him off till next week? I need to breathe a little and be in my own space.

    XO ladies, you are all so lovely, and such an inspiration.

  131.  #131Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 6:44 am

    Hana I am not sure I would mention the party to him as it might send the message that you have no room in your life for dating. I would just share that I feel overwhelmed right now and appreciate him for planning the date but let him know what date you will be available instead.

  132.  #132Hana on May 29, 2013 at 6:54 am

    🙂 Thanks FW, we made a date for Monday afternoon, lol it’s funny I actually told him that those same words “overwhelmed right now”, which is true.

    I need space. I need to also fill my mind with things other than sad rock long songs, which is hard because when A came back to me, he made me 2 records, one with some amazing salsa songs, and one mix of beautiful romantic rock songs to express how he felt about our relationships. He is very romantic, and I am very confused. OYE ! But, still no word. Need to move along my bridge…move forward even if he ins’t.

  133.  #133Indigo on May 29, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Veronica 127

    Yes, absolutely. My healing will HAVE to happen aside from him, he triggers me and I trigger him and I don’t think there is any hope for a love relationship of this kind, unless we both heal, which is not a given.

  134.  #134Veronica on May 29, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Thank you Indigo – I feel like I’m pretty close to cutting ties. I feel like there’s no hope but not quite exactly for the same reason as you.

    Hm, I’m wondering if it’s possible to step away from the triggers, as in they just don’t help with healing anymore and instead just keep a person stuck. Is that possible?

  135.  #135Veronica on May 29, 2013 at 7:33 am

    Especially if we’re in a situation that isn’t moving forward.

  136.  #136Daria on May 29, 2013 at 8:44 am

    hi Daria 🙂 i love you!

  137.  #137Veronica on May 29, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Hm but they wouldn’t be triggers then – oh gosh I’m conflating people with triggers. Ok so trying again: maybe I could step away from the person and just deal with the triggers directly. Now I feel like I’ve just been walking around in circles.

    Okay but I’m sure there are moments when I could be triggered and then just realise it for what it is and realise that it is unnecessary for me to get into this. Maybe I should use an example before it all gets too abstract. Years ago this one man was getting very interested in me and too quickly. While considering whether I would be in a relationship with him I asked him a few questions and found out that he had two wives! I completely disengaged from him and he left saying ‘don’t think you did anything wrong’. I thought to myself ‘umm, clearly’. I didn’t even consider that over the next month as I was detoxing from him – I chose not to. It was unnecessary.

  138.  #138Daria on May 29, 2013 at 9:22 am

    okay so now he wants me to come see him and im feeling thrilled and going out there lol

    but im still gonna make my date at 8!

  139.  #139Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 10:30 am


    Ok – so to catch everyone up in cliff notes. Had a bit of an emotional time with something, but he and I ended up totally fine. Two weeks without seeing him alone, and he stepped up and came and saw me as soon as I expressed my needs/wants. It was all fine. He was very sensitive and caring when we were together. And he comes over and still talks to me every day.

    But, I feel a bit of a pulling away from him in the sense that he used to just RUN and try to do everything for me, and now its not as much of the enthusiasm? I dont know.

    Anyway – we are to have a date on Sat. It will be the first time alone without kids where we can literally spend all weekend together in about a year. No kidding a year. LOL.

    So – I’m so excited about it.

    And I talked to him today about something, and I said – hey do you know of what you want to do on Sat. yet? And he said “No, I havent really thought about it to be honest.”

    What!?! I’ve been thinking about it for two months!

    Ok – so – I said – well, I have an idea of something, and we could go to this one restaurant and then drinking after, and he said like 5 times, I dont want to drink and drive. I’m like, YAH I dont want you to either, and I dont want to – we can get a cab if it comes to that? Weird. And so finally I said – yah I get it – you dont want to drink and drive – I dont think anyone is asking you to do that.

    So I said – well, is there something else you would want to do – or go for dinner, etc?

    He just was like, no I hadnt really even thought about it.


    Now, here is my fault my problem: I rowed the boat. I should have SHUT UP and not said anything about Sat. night. I should have let him handle it and figure out where to go. This is my fault for trying to row the boat – and I led – and look at what i get. Disappointed. I hate it. But why cant I just be giddy and excited? I should have been that but then not tried to “plan” anything.

    So, I see my mistake. I see that rowing and “do-ing” gets me disappointed because it makes me upset that he hasnt planned anything or anything.

    We ended up talking about other stuff and laughing and I”m sure he has moved on.

    But I”m really upset. I feel like he doesnt care because he hasnt even thought about our date.

    I feel like now I dont know what to do?

    Not say anything? Not mention anything and just allow him to take the lead?

    Shoudl I come up with a script and say “I felt weird after talking to you about Sat. and it would feel good if you planned something instead for us.” Etc.

    But the thing is that he and I have talked about going out and having some drinks for forever. FOREVER. And all of a sudden now it seems like he doesnt want to do that.

    I’m disappointed, angry, frustrated, hurt ….

    I’m just riffing here on everything I feel. I feel like I’m not important enough for him to think about. For him to be excited about.

    Even though he did come over first thing in the morning and talked to me for an hour.

    Help. I’m sort of melting down over here because I had built Sat. up for months and now it already feels like I ruined the “vibe” of it.

    Help me get the good vibe back.

  140.  #140Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Elsie – First of all NO MORE shoulding. It was what it was. Maybe not the best choices, and so what, oh well. Learn and move on, okay?

    Now let this go. You already know he’s not dwelling on it. Likely he’s long ago forgotten about any discomfort there might have been if there even was any on his end.

    This is ALL you making stuff up, projecting, and yes still a bit of an expectation, wanting him to think and feel as you do.

    How about thinking that just BEING with you is pleasure enough for him. Can this be enough for you? There doesn’t have to be anything special planned. He just wants to enjoy YOU. Can you simply enjoy him? Whatever you end up doing is really not so important. Being together is.


  141.  #141Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Dominique – it reminds me of how Rori talks about us coming across as getting the event/place seems more important than the human being himself. I also just read from T Dub “One of a guy’s core desire is for him to be able to drop his guard and know that you still approve, like and love him. His desire for you to love the Real HIM is one of four of his triggers to full devotion and enthisiastic commitment.”

    Just amazing how we miss the opportunities when these things come up because we are so focussed on trying hard to build attraction/love to make the relationship work rather than focussing on getting to know the real him.

    I am going to consider this focus on getting the date just right as chasing him so I can drop my agenda.

  142.  #142Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Dominique – you are awesome as per usual.

    Ok – you are totally right. He has moved on. I’m sure it was forgotten moments after it was over – its who he is for sure.

    I do think you are right that just being with me is enough. I do think he really thinks that.

    But here is my problem. I WANT him to be excited and plan something for us. Is that wrong? Is that expecting too much?

    At this point, when Sat. at 5pm happens…..and I tell him its all clear and we can hang out – what then? Do I say where are we going … etc.

    When he had planned for us to see this movie once I loved that he planned everything and told him so.

    Can I say a script like:

    I was thinking about our conversation the other day, and it feels really good when you plan things for us, so I would love for you to decide where we are going and what we are doing tonight?

    Or maybe this script:

    Hey, I was thinking and it really felt like I was “being the boy” (thats a phrase he and I use….) by planning our night Sat. night. After I said it, I immediately felt like I was rowing this boat (he knows that phrase too….), so I would love it and it would feel SO GOOD if you would figure out what you would like us to do on Sat. night and I”m game for anything.

  143.  #143Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Elsie -141- How do you know he’s not excited? Just because he doesn’t demonstrate it the way you might, this doesn’t mean he’s not feeling it.

    K is like this as are so many other men seemingly. They tend first of all the live more in the moment than most women, and secondly, they just seems to process differently.

    You can say things like – I can’t wait to see you. It would feel so good to……I would love to…….what do you think? I don’t want to be the boy. I love being surprised…….

    Give him a chance. And if he’s not planned anything, can you simply enjoy him? Remember that it doesn’t matter what you do.

    Another suggestion if he doesn’t have anything planned for whatever reason, didn’t have the time or lacked creativity this week and you have something in mind, ask him if you could make a suggestion. You would love to……………You heard about……………..what does he think?


  144.  #144Hana on May 29, 2013 at 11:38 am

    I feel really sad 🙁 I don’t know if he’s gone forever…and I don’t like that I care so much !

  145.  #145Hana on May 29, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Rori, did I do a mistake to let him back into my life? Is there anything I should be aware of when he does return? I feel really sad and heartbroken, I should not have been so easy to be back with him should I?

  146.  #146Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 11:43 am

    GS definitely lives in the moment. It bothers me because it truly makes me wonder whether or not he has any future plans for us. Sigh.

    The problem I have is that I’ve ALREADY sort of ruined this right? I’ve already offered a suggestion, and then there was the whole “he doesnt want to drink and drive” thing which again, I wasnt asking him to, but whatever, weird. anyway – the point is that I feel that the VIBE is off now.

    So, yes, if he hasnt planned anything, which clearly he hasnt and wont, then I could enjoy him, but I really wanted really REALLY wanted to go out drinking. I havent done it in forever and I never get to and I just wanted to let loose with him. Ugh.

    So in a way, it DOES matter because I would really like to do that. And I feel like I got knocked back for just suggesting something that frankly, I thought we had already talked about etc.

    I dont really like the fact that I truly thought it was a done deal weeks ago that we were going to go and throw back some beers, etc. I was so excited, and I thought he knew that. Ugh. We had talked about it a while ago. I dont like the tone I got from him. I felt like a little girl who had done something wrong. Ugh. I hate it.

    So since I’ve already said all of that, I dont know really what to say to him. Does that make sense?

  147.  #147Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Elsie: In my opinion, no script needed. No nothing. Let him lead. If you don’t really like the way he’s leading, maybe someone else would be a better fit for you. As you said, this is the way he is…you continue to try to change him. I think you’re putting a lot of pressure on him and maybe emasculating him a little when you row the boat. I wish you could just let him be who he is. If who he is isn’t what you want then you will eventually find out. You’ll find out in a really cool way if you let him be that person and show you the REAL him. You’ll find out in a really frustrating way if you keep trying to change him (or change him back to the way he was when you first started seeing each other).

    Please just let this all evolve and see what happens. Allow him to be his own person and decide if that person is someone you can love forever. It’ll be really, really hard to change him into someone you can love forever.

    Is it critical for you that you are with a man who plans your dates or are you just as happy with a man who goes with what he feels in the moment? It’s okay either way, but some men don’t plan and don’t think about dates in advance. You have to decide if you’re okay with that. I’d hate to see him pretend to change just to make you happy. I’d love to see him with the freedom to show you who he is. I believe in my heart that relationships last a lot longer when we don’t try to change ourselves or each other…

    Much Love,

  148.  #148Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 11:46 am

    So how about looking at things as I strive to – Healing is NOT hard but an opportunity to grow and find more of your true self in there, where you can find and feel even MORE BEAUTY, MORE LOVE.

    And within this shift of consciousness, you will also be able to see how MANY rewards there really are for you on this path you have chosen. And that they show up ALL THE TIME, every day. You need only open your heart’s eye and look.

  149.  #149Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Hana – Again there are no “shoulds”. It is what it is, and you did what you did because it felt like the right choice at the time.

    There are no mistakes, only learning and growing experiences if you choose to look at this in this way.

    His actions and not his words are what you want to pay attention to. If you choose to let him go, the pain you might feel will dissipate if you allow it.


  150.  #150Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 11:49 am

    @Mercedes – Of course you are right.

    You really are very very right.

    Can you tell me what I should do about Sat. ?

    When the time actually comes around – and he says the words, ok, where do you want to go or where do you want to meet (he will say that) then what do I say in that moment?

  151.  #151Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 11:50 am

    “I dont like the tone I got from him. I felt like a little girl who had done something wrong”

    Elsie I would take this as him reacting to my trying to be convincer. He was being the resistor. People unconsciously play roles with each other and I believe here he wants to be leader and he reacted to you taking that role.

    This to me, is a huge lesson about the relationship dance/the energy exchange.

  152.  #152Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Elsie: No need to say anything to him. Take yourself out and have a few beers. Have some fun. Enjoy life. Meet new people. Have adult conversation with complete strangers. Laugh. Smile. Shine.

    And tell him all about your amazing time out. Let him see you smile and laugh while you remember. Let him see that YOU know what you want and that YOU know how to make it happen.

    Do this as often as you get the urge to go out and have a good time.

    And be open to what HE wants to do when he’s leading. When he’s NOT leading, lead your own life. And let him know just how much you enjoy your own life.

    At this point, he’s GOT to be feeling almost completely responsible for your happiness. And probably pretty obligated to do the things YOU want to do. And most likely feeling a bit overwhelmed by it.

    My heart goes out to you Elsie. I know how much I wanted my ex-husband (husband at the time) to be like me and to like the things I liked and to want to (without my suggestions) do the things I wanted to do. It never did work that way…

    Much Love,

  153.  #153Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Elsie: You laugh and say “I was leaving that completely up to you! You tell me and I’ll be there!”

    Much Love,

  154.  #154Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Elsie – 145 – I understand, and it is possible that he got squirrely because you did pick up the oars. You really don’t know that he won’t plan something, so instead of anticipating this, just be open to whatever unfolds.

    The more joy and in the momentness you can express to him, the more likely will it be in the future that he will be better at planning.


  155.  #155Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 11:56 am

    And if he insists that you decide then you have it made. You already decided: “I want to go to xyz restaurant, throw back a few beers and have a good time. I have the number to a cab programmed in my phone so no need to look it up. We’ll be set!”

    Much Love,

  156.  #156Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 11:56 am

    “where do you want to meet” would be a great question to have him come to where you are drinking and having fun on your own, is my humble opinion. Or if he asks about the time to meet, let him know you will be at xyz enjoying life.

  157.  #157Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Mercedes – I bet you are 100% right. I bet he totally feels responsible for my happiness. Its probably weighing on him. I didnt really see it until that post of yours.

    I am going to do exactly what you said. I’m not going to mention it until he says ok – what do you want to do…….and then that is what I’ll say. 🙂

    Dominique – you are right. I’m just sure of it. He probably got squirrely (love that word) because I picked up the oars.

    Here is me. Setting. Down. The. Oars.

    Whew. They are heavy. Now that the oars are down, my hands are free to get a beer. 🙂

    Thanks as always Dominique and Mercedes. You are both always there for me (how do you know when I’m on the computer? LOL!!!!!)

  158.  #158Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Basically, if you want love, you’ve got to practice love daily.

    Practice LOVE daily? How? I’m going to share with you something from the daily exercises we suggest in our LoveLaunch Program Workbook, which is to ask yourself,

    “How am I expressing love right now?”

    Can you be loving when you get cut off on the freeway in rush hour traffic after a tense day at the office?

    Can you be loving when your best friend isn’t “acting right”- in other words, the way you think he or she should act?

    Can you “be the change” by expressing love to yourself and others the way you want your soulmate to express love?

    Can you be kind and forgiving to yourself when you make mistakes and allow those mistakes to help you grow and evolve?

    These are some important questions to ask yourself on your soulmate journey and are crucial to say yes to as much as possible. Remember that the universe will only treat you as well as you treat yourself and others, so give the universe clear and consistent signals that you KNOW that you are worth it by taking on loving and caring habits now.

  159.  #159Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    FW: 155 – ABSOLUTELY!!! That is EXACTLY how I see the best scenario play out. Elsie enjoying life and GS getting an invite to join her anytime. 🙂

    Much Love,

  160.  #160Hana on May 29, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Dominique, what do you mean the pain will dissipate if I allow it if I let him go?

    Is 3 days of no contact even something to worry about?

    I have so much going on in my life, why do I compulsively think of him? I can’t help it, I try to replace it with so many things. I try the tools, I keep studying the programs, maybe it’s just a matter of time I need to work it out… But really I don’t like how I feel. That is why I worry about having him in my life, I don’t know if I should anymore. It needs to feel good, and it doesn’t right now. I don’t feel ready to do it though, I feel like I need to see what happens until I make the decision, this is what I did before I let him go last time because he wasn’t taking any action to be with me the way I wanted it.


  161.  #161Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Hana – When you hang onto things, they hang onto you. When you open your heart, and allow, this gives the pain space to move on through you.

    I just posted this old meditation I came up with a long time ago elsewhere. It may help you here.


  162.  #162Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Elsie – 156 – It’s not so much that he feels responsible for you happiness as that he feels unhappy if you do. I don’t want you to get caught up in a place where he thinks he can’t win with you no matter what he does, that he just can’t seem to make you happy.

    It takes some time to get to the place where a man just gives up though.

    I love Miss M’s suggestion – You tell me when and where, and I’ll be there.


  163.  #163Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    I love you girls. 🙂

    Ok – I’m letting this go. I already feel better. I just need to be reminded of these things. It doesnt come naturally to me. I grew up with a very dictatorial mother who just even yesterday yelled at me because I had a different opinion than hers. Unfortunately, I do have parts of her in me, and i see that. I see that when things dont go the way I’ve planned, or my way, that its somehow wrong, and stresses me out.

    I have expectations out the yin yang on everything and everyone and all it does is cause pain.

    I feel so much better when I get to the place where I let it go. Its just that it doesnt come naturally to me.

    I am going to let this go.

    On Sat. when we talk, I’ll just say when and where and I’ll be there. 🙂

    Also, on a separate note, you may all remember that he was a bit uncomfortable meeting my friend. He never said he wouldnt go get those things for me and bring them over, but he was obviously uncomfortable.

    I wonder if I should raise the subject and ask if he would still like to help me, or just drop it, and then if he asks about it at some point, I can just say, in a happy voice, well, you seemed uncomfortable, and I didnt want you to feel that way, so I got it myself.

    Thoughts? Do I give him a chance to help me…..or just handle this myself?

  164.  #164Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Elsie: Let it all go. He knows you asked for help. Let him decide if he’s coming over to do it or not. I’d personally never bring it up again.

    On a side note, when are you taking yourself out for that beer? Do you have the number to a cab programmed into your phone just in case you have too much fun?

    (in other words, I don’t want you to take just part of my advice. Take it all. It’s just for you. The whole thing is: Let it go and take yourself out for a good time. SOON!!!)

    Much Love,

  165.  #165Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Why do need or want his help, Elsie? Is there an underlying agenda here?


  166.  #166Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    ” Do I give him a chance to help me…..or just handle this myself?” – You already gave him a chance to help. He knows when and where. If he can’t, won’t, doesn’t, then you take care of it…or call a friend to help. Doesn’t really matter. All that matters is you have already asked for this one. Asking again is kin to nagging…

    Advice #3: Whenever you find yourself asking “should I just let this go or should I ask him to help me again”, answer with the words “let it go Elsie…let it go”.

    Much Love,

  167.  #167Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Mercedes – You crack me up. Ok Ok Ok. I will go out for a beer. Its hard because I have children you know. 🙂 I will find a time to take myself out and have fun I promise promise promise you. 🙂

    Now, to clarify, I did ask for his help. He appeared uncomfortable about meeting my friend, so the conversation sort of tapered off, but he never said he woulnt help me.

    The issue to be clear is to get some stuff from a wholesale store he belongs to and I dont. It would save me money if he got it for me there. Yes, I can get it myself, but it will cost a lot more if he doesnt help me.

    So there isnt an “agenda” per se, excpet that I really could use his help because it would save me money. He did offer, and was excited to help, until he found out that my friend was going to be there, and then he seemed to get uncomfortable.

    I thought I could just say in a happy pleasant way, “Hey, I would still love your help with getting xyz, but I noticed you seemed to be uncomfortable with coming over if my friend was going to be there, so I’m just wondering if I should go ahead and just get it myself?” And not act put out if he says no….

    To be clear, he never said he wouldnt help. He said he WOULD help, but then seemed uncomfortable when he knew my friend would be there.

  168.  #168IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    “And your mind will start to clear. Things won’t get to you so easily. You won’t feel so awful so much of the time anymore, maybe hardly ever. You will feel more at peace more of the time. You will find it SO much easier to connect with people, men, and more deeply. You will feel love more and more of the time.”

    Love this, Dominique. 🙂

  169.  #169Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Elsie: So he said he’s going to pick the stuff up and drop it off at your house and then he seemed uncomfortable? Is this stuff time sensitive? Meaning if the day that your friend is there comes and goes and he doesn’t do it, could you at that point go take care of it yourself?

    I really, really wouldn’t bring this up at all if it were me. Especially not making note to him that you think he felt uncomfortable. That’s totally in his head and if he actually was uncomfortable, you’ll bring those feelings rushing right back in at full speed.

    Men love women who make them feel comfortable, not so much the women who bring uncomfortable feelings rushing back at full speed so they can ask for help…

    If it is time sensitive and you have to have the stuff on that day and no later, then I’d probably say “Hey…were you still going to pick stuff up for me or should I care for it myself? Just want to make sure I’m prepared.”

    Much Love,

  170.  #170Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Mercedes I believe it also takes away his fun of doing it because it makes him feel good to do something he is internally motivated to do. Doing something you want to do and doing something somebody else wants you to do has such a differnt feel.

  171.  #171Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Elsie – 166 – “Hey, I would still love your help with getting xyz.”

    That’s all you need.


  172.  #172Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Elsie: A thought just occurred to me. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I mean no offense. It just struck me as another perspective or something to think about or whatever…but not something I mean in a mean way:

    Do you need this stuff on the exact day your friend is at your house and is it so helpful to you that you can’t imagine spending the money to get it yourself (or becoming a member of this wholesale store so you don’t have to ask him again)…or is this another way for you to row the boat (manipulate the situation) and set things up (lead like crazy) by planning in advance a way for him to help you when it feels uncomfortable for him but when YOU feel it is a good way to move your relationship forward and mold him into the man you want?

    What I have discovered in my life (through my former marriage for the most part): Trying to teach a man to lead by being the example of the perfect leader does not work.

    Much Love,

  173.  #173Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Well, it is time sensitive because its food.

    I sort of want to just handle it myself, and if he ever brings it up I can just say – well, you seemed so uncomfortable, and I didnt want you to feel that way and I didnt want to nag, so I just handled it myself, but thank you!!!

    What do you think of that?

  174.  #174Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    FW: 169 – EXACTLY! And in the end, it rarely feels good to us either. From what I’ve observed, women love it when men do things for us from their hearts. Women are turned off by it when they have to constantly ask their man for help. Yet, many women train their men that it is not necessary to do anything from their hearts because we will ask and ask and ask for it if we want it. We kill their motivation and in the same breath complain about why they aren’t motivated like they used to be.

    That was a lot of projecting on my part. We (I, you, they, women) don’t do it all the time. I just happen to see it a lot.

    Much Love,

  175.  #175Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Mercedes – 171 – I can totally get it myself, it will just cost more – and he and I work together often to help each other out when we can in terms of helping with money, etc. if we can. I really didnt feel that I was rowing the boat AT ALL in asking him to help and he was originally thrilled to help me. Its just when I said my friend would be at the house he seemed to get uncomfortable. I STILL dont know why he is uncomfortable to meet my friend, but whatever. That sort of stings.

    I do not feel I’m doing that – I’m just honestly trying to save some money. Its not the end of the world if I have to spend more and get it myself. I honestly and not rowing hte boat.

    I just wish that he would offer and I guess I wish that he wanted to meet my friend. But I dont want to push him if he feels uncomfortable….

  176.  #176Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Elsie: You need the food on that day and can’t wait one more day to see if he does it or not? If it were me and I spent money on someone else’s food (because they asked me) and then when I showed up, I found out they didn’t want to pay for it because they went out and bought it already, I would be so irritated (and then especially if they said they “thought I felt xyz” would just add insult to injury).

    My advice is still the same. If it can wait one more day, let him be and see what he does. If it can’t, then ask in advance but don’t tell him you think he feels uncomfortable.

    Much Love,

  177.  #177Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    LOL. Mercedes, no I wouldnt do that. I would wait and not buy it until I knew he wasnt going to…..LOL. I would never do that. Make him buy food and then not pay him. haha….seriously. I would never do that.

    Ok – I’m waiting. 🙂

  178.  #178Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    well, you seemed so uncomfortable, and I didnt want you to feel that way and I didnt want to nag, so I just handled it myself, but thank you!!!


    well, I noticed (mention the body language, and I assumed you felt(>>>>>>>>>>) way and I didnt want to nag (I would not reinforce the word nag in his mind by mentioning it), so I just handled it myself, but thank you!!!

    I would rather say I did not want to be overbearing.

  179.  #179IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    In a way, I’ve kind of stopped trying, and stopped caring about men.

    It feels AMAZING.

    I feel like a rockstar.

    I’m not pining over any stupid idiot.

    I needed help with a lot of things recently, and I’ve just asked men.

    I didn’t feel that great with this one guy, but he had a truck, and I needed a truck, and we have mutual friends.

    He brought friends to help.

    His one friend was talking about a girl who needed help on the phone, and I felt myself go into pure masculine energy.

    and I didn’t care.

    Action was more important to me than sitting back and feeling.

    The girl was in trouble, and I didn’t like the way he was handling it.

    so I made suggestions, I felt angry, I spoke my mind.

    and it felt DANG GOOD.

    I asked another guy for a ride I needed, and he gave it to me.

    Paid for my lunch. Asked me about my life, showed curiousity.

    and that felt good.

    Not interested in him in the slightest, but it still felt good.

    Then, he brought me to a public place, and his extremely hot friend that I only know casually came down and sat on the other side of me and started talking to me.

    I had zero expectations and thoroughly enjoyed our interaction.

    Then another guy sat down next to me, when the guy who I asked the ride of was out of his seat for a second.

    He put his arm around my chair, and that felt nice.

    I just enjoy attention from males.

    but I seriously feel hung up on NO ONE, and that feels the BEST.

    I hope I never get hung up on a guy ever again.

    I hope men get hung up on ME!!!

  180.  #180Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    I like using the word overbearing. Thanks FW!!!!

  181.  #181IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Talking to a married girlfriend of mine, I want to learn from her.

    Many guys who talked to me, talked to her as well, but they went further with her, asking for her info, etc.

    I definitely have “blocks” and “walls” and “fears” that I throw up to protect myself from men a lot of times.

    I don’t know how to tear them down, unless he already makes me feel safe and/or apathedic.

    Not many men make me feel safe and/or apathedic….

    I love feeling safe.
    I love feeling apathedic.

    I don’t like feeling fear, suspicion, panic, etc…

  182.  #182IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I don’t know how I’m doing. If I’m growing, learning, or changing.

    I’m not sure…

  183.  #183Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Elsie: Then there is nothing at all to stress about. As I said before, no need to ever bring it up again. He knows you need help. He knows he said yes. He knows the date and the time. Just lean back and see what he does. This will, if nothing else, give you some good information about him.

    And I’m totally with FW. Telling him you know how he felt, using the word nag and saying “I just did it myself thank you very much” would sting if I were on the receiving end.

    If you wait, then you never have to talk about it. If the time comes and goes and he doesn’t pick up the stuff for you then I’m sure he’ll never ask so you’ll never have to explain why you did it yourself. You’ll know why you did it yourself. You’ll know that it wasn’t because of how he felt…you’ll know that it was because he didn’t do it. In any case, you won’t be asking him to help twice for the same thing.

    Much Love,

  184.  #184IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    at the very least I’m learning.
    but the application of knowledge is where the $ is…

  185.  #185Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Iamhis: I see you growing all the time. I would work on this part if it were me: “I don’t know how to tear them down, unless he already makes me feel safe and/or apathedic.”

    He can’t “make you feel” anything. That’s all internal work. Dominique is amazing at the internal work…teaching how to look and heal within ourselves so that our men will meet us in that place. If you haven’t already, I would encourage you to check out her site.

    Beyond that, meditation and visualization has helped me so, so much when I need to heal on the inside. I highly recommend a regular practice of at least twice a day building up to 30 min or more each session.

    Much Love,

  186.  #186Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Elsie: In addition to Rori’s work (probably Modern Siren specifically), I would also recommend Dominique’s program to you. It is sooooo full of tips for helping you reach that healing place where you will no longer rely no him (or any man) to do what you need or to do what you want in order for you to feel fulfilled. She’s been through a lot of this stuff herself and has done a great job of learning to let go of those expectations herself but then also putting it into a program that helps all of US do it too. I really, really like the video program a lot and seriously highly recommend it!

    Much Love,

  187.  #187Ignis on May 29, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    I can find myself in so many comment here it feels crazy 🙂

    But I just realized something. I actually feel myself really lucky, because as much as I did not wanted to see this before, my Mr. showed me exactly what I should do to inspire him. Guess now I got it. And now I do not even want to inspire him, I just want to inspire myself 🙂

    What is wonderful about all the tools Rori has for us, is that even when you are not ready or too afraid to really go for it and lean back, then sooner or later they just wear on you anyway. Since I found the tools I did everything by the book, except for letting go of the thought I could let go of him. ..and I found all kinds of excuses not to think that though. But as the time goes by and you do all the other things right, then it suddenly clicks. And I know I will probably struggle more with this soon, but it will be easier and easier with time.

    How do you girls deal with living like 5 min away from each other though? I do not want to move, and I only ran into him once, but I do not know if it is not too tempting to go back to old habits when I know he is so close?

  188.  #188Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Ignis: “How do you girls deal with living like 5 min away from each other though?” – This happened to me when J and I broke up. I avoided all the places I knew he would be. I really, really avoided them. Changed grocery stores, gyms, local hangouts and everything. It wasn’t exactly convenient for me, but it was easier than running into him unexpectedly.

    Much Love,

  189.  #189Femininewoman on May 29, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    well, you seemed so uncomfortable, and I didnt want you to feel that way and I didnt want to nag, so I just handled it myself, but thank you!!!

    This feels so inauthentic and blamey I feel slapped and cringey inside all at the same time. I want to explore it Elsie, if you don’t mind.

    you seemed so uncomfortable – this feels like an accusatory thought. I am wondering if “I felt your energy pull away as if you were shutting down internally” could work.

    I didnt want you to feel that way – sounds like a mother talking to a small child she can control. As if he is not an adult who can handle himself.

    I didnt want to nag, so I just handled it myself – I am an independent woman who thinks of herself as a nag so I want to show you that I don’t need you.

    but thank you!!! – immediately after that statement translates in my mind as someone who is angry but pretending to be cheery.

    All this happened unconsciously inside me in the split second I read the statement.

  190.  #190Ignis on May 29, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    @Mercedes 🙂

    Thank you dear 🙂 And now I feel even more lucky, because this is countryside we are talking about, and since we are 5 min away from each other, we do not need to go by each other houses to get anywhere and we used different stores from before 🙂

    We do have many, many, many friends in common though, and we are going to the same concerts. And I would feel angry if I had to drop them, because that is what I do, I go to concerts haha But guess I can snick in there after concert start and snick out before it ends? or is that chasing?

    Hugs 😀

  191.  #191IamHis on May 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Thanks, Mercedes. That felt very encouraging!

    He can’t “make you feel” anything.

    So very true.

    I want to feel safe all the time.

    I will feel triggered again, but I want to feel safe feeling my feelings, and I want to feel safe communicating my feelings if appropriate.

    phew, so much work!

  192.  #192Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Thank you everyone.

    OK – Mercedes. I’m seriously not sure if he will even remember. I asked a long time ago.

    FW – wow, I never even thought of it like that – but I could totally see how it would come across like that.

    Whew. Why is this so hard?

  193.  #193Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Ignis: Oh…I never actually had existing plans or anything where J and I would have to be together. Anything I did would have been chasing so I stayed away, away, away. There is plenty to do in this city without having to be in the same place ever. BUT…if I were in your situation, I would absolutely NOT have given up on the concerts or the friends. It’s okay to have all the fun you would have had if you were still together. How he deals with that stuff is his problem.

    For you, I would suggest doing what you feel good doing. No sneaking in or out. Maybe no alcohol or other substances so it is easier to keep your wits about you but other than that, this is your life. Enjoy it. And enjoy it publicly without any sneaking. 🙂

    Much Love,

  194.  #194Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Elsie: Ok…then wait one day past the date he was going to pick up your stuff and then go out and get it yourself if he doesn’t do it. Nothing to stress about. Really. Just see if he does it and then if not, go get it and never bring it up again (but maybe in the future don’t ask for help so far in advance that he might have time to forget…).

    If he does bring it to you, big, huge kisses and hugs and “thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! You are a lifesaver!!!”

    (not anything along the lines of “I feel so happy you remembered. I felt sure you would forget since it was so long ago.” Or “I feel so happy you did this! You seemed so uncomfortable I wasn’t sure you weren’t going to do it at all”. Nothing like anything like that or any other speech you might be contemplating. Just “thank you thank you thank you thank you…”

    Much Love,

  195.  #195Elsie on May 29, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Mercedes – Ok. I’m totally taking your advice. 🙂 You continue to rock. 🙂

  196.  #196Ignis on May 29, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    @Mercedes sweetheart,

    oh it is called sneaking not snicking haha speaking 3 languages each day is so confusing for the brain 🙂

    Last time we met at the concert, I did not give a damn he was there, I said hi and went about my business, and he at once started to ask our friends about me. Which I said to them politely I do not want to know about. It is much much easier for me when he is actually around to lean back that when he is not, so I blew it off afterwards with sms 🙂 But what is done is done, and now I just feel like moving on.

    Guess then it is all right to stop stressing I will run into him, just do not think about it at all 🙂 that will be something new 🙂

  197.  #197Mercedes on May 29, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Elsie: You rock too! Thanks for letting me give advice all day. I’m totally in boy mode these days (with general contractors and sign companies and landlords and lawyers) and I guess I just needed one more go around before I go home to J, spend 10 minutes talking about business and then taking off my boy hat and putting on my high heels and red lipstick! 🙂

    Ignis: This totally made me smile!!! “Guess then it is all right to stop stressing I will run into him, just do not think about it at all that will be something new ”

    LOVE it!

    Something new. Just don’t think about it at all.

    (It will change your entire life!) 🙂

    Much Love,

  198.  #198BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 2:45 pm


    “Whew. Why is this so hard?”

    Good question.

  199.  #199Ignis on May 29, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    I do not think the problem is this is hard, because it is not, I mean how hard it is to do nothing? 😉 The thing is it feels terrifying to let go of things, and it at least in my case went against everything I though was right. I think the real question is if one wants to lean back or not, but like really go for it. Because everything felt hard for me as long as I chose to make excuses for myself, now that I really decided to let go and said it out loud to myself it feels way easier 🙂 I even laugh at myself now of what I was thinking yesterday haha

    @BeLoved good luck and courage 🙂

  200.  #200Hana on May 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    I had a dream 2 nights ago, I was driving in a storm, suddenly heading towards something very dangerous, and also running away from something dangerous, which is strange. Then, I feel a huge figure running towards the car and I see it also behind and infront of me, it’s A, he is trying to help me, to stop the car somehow, to protect me. I just remember very sharply that I pushed the breaks really strong and then I woke up.

    I felt really strange afterwards, like I don’t understand what this means? I do a little.

    Too much dreaming if I’m really honest with myself, lol

    I feel terrible right now, looking at the website dominique, let’s see if this can help me, I am exhausted of feeling so sad.

  201.  #201Tereana on May 29, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Ah, crap. I think I’m doing it again.

    yesterday, for no reason other than that I was “feeling anxious about stuff,” I wrote the new guy a long message, which I considered to be a “power message,” but now I’m not so sure about that. It was all, I’m not sure about this, it feels like too much for me (and that, for sure, is true, but it’s not static). And then it was kind of like, “I want to hold out for what I really want.” Which I’m starting to think is kind of bull. I’m what? Am I really? Or am I just not being honest about what I want?

    I put it in the context of my Dream(s) – my dream of how I want to feel with someone. Which I described in detail in his presence last week. Maybe he thought it was nonsense. But it was all about how I want to feel like a Queen, and loved and awesome, etc. And hey, I do want to feel like that.

    So far, he doesn’t make me feel like that. BUT, I could be blocking those feelings, if he is.

    One thing I’ve noticed – he really listens to what I tell him about myself. Sometimes I don’t think he is listening, or that he cares. But then – like, for example, when I suggested that we meet earlier this week, after work, he said, “won’t you be tired?” And I was like, no way! But then I was like, yeah, actually, I will. And later on, I was indeed very tired. There’s no way I could have met with him. *sigh* And this feels like, me, just working hard to please someone and knock myself out when it’s not even necessary.

    Did he ask me to meet with him on Monday? No way! That was all coming from me? Why? Because I’m PMS-ing, I guess. That’s the best explanation I have. I get a little – ahem – randy when I have PMS, and I thought it might be fun to make out. And I get more “forward” when I have PMS as well.

    But then, after that, and after we agreed that it was not a good idea, I started having second thoughts about the whole relationship. I figured, if my gut was telling me that one meeting was a bad idea, and it was right, maybe I can trust that the whole thing is a bad idea.

    And maybe I can.

    But the thing is, I don’t know. I could just be running away. There is a distinct possibility that what I’m feeling is also him basically offering me, in a clear and simple way, something that I want, and I’m saying no. I’m running from it.

    Or, maybe it’s just not what I want. And I can say no.

    I can be a no. And that’s okay.

    To quote a newsletter I read recently about saying yes and know, this woman was talking about checking in to see if she was a “h*ll yes!” about something before saying yes. I don’t think, honestly, that I am a “h*ll yes!” about this guy. I think I’m more of a “hm, that’s interesting, I think that’s almost what I want, but not quite – next!”

    So maybe what I wrote was accurate. I really DO want to hold out for what I want. Right? I mean, right? Isn’t that the point? To that, I think I say – H*LL yes

    Thanks for helping me process ; )

  202.  #202Tereana on May 29, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Jarring/interesting thought for the day – If I spent as much time writing my book as I do for this blog, I would have the book written, several times over, I thin. Hm…

    Okay, I’m going to ponder that

  203.  #203Luzydel on May 29, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    So I got a ton of emails form pof again; it is like a roller coaster sometimes I get nothing and then I get bombarded; another chance to do CD the right way without being exclusive without a proper commitment.

  204.  #204Tereana on May 29, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    I just caught a typo in post #200 I wrote “yes and know” – meaning “yes and no.”

    But now I kind of like my typo. I think I might go with that. Because a NO can be kNOwing that something (or someone) isn’t right for me. It doesn’t have to be fear, and I don’t have to be afraid of rejection or disapproval, if I’m really trusting myself.

    And maybe that’s really what this “fear” feeling is, bubbling up inside. If I have truly expressed myself and my truth, and if what it means is that there is some form of “no” (or “kNOw” in that), maybe he is going to “judge” me. And I’m afraid of being rejected on a deep level. And this feels like not being able to say “no” to anything in my family. I cannot say “no” to my parents. They are too big, too powerful. If I say no, they stop loving me, they reject me. As long as I say yes, they like me, they pay attention to me and everything is okay. As long as I am “good.”

    And as I’m typing this, sensations are coming up. It’s a familiar warm, flat sensation, like a vertical wall, just behind my face and through my neck. The palate of my mouth is lifting. My stomach feels a bit like sandpaper and tingly. There is a sweetness at the corners of my jaw. And my abdomen feels red.

    I know that I have felt this before. Lots of times. It brings up many images from my past

    so I know it’s a trigger feeling.

    Anyway, gotta go. I have a client appointment.

    But it’s good to be able to write this stuff out!

    The feelings have definitely passed more quickly now…

    cheers, ladies!

  205.  #205BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 4:34 pm



    I was quoting Elsie.

    And it feels good reading your post – I almost imagine I’m sitting on a balcony overlooking the city of Paris, strolling musicians below playing classical accordion music, drinking wine and talking about life with a wise friend making lively, sweeping gestures with her wineglass and a gleam in her eye 😉

  206.  #206BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Constellation work is one of my passions, I feel so inspired by John L. Payne.
    I did this exercise yesterday and I felt strong feelings come up. I felt surprised at who I didn’t feel an unhealthy attachment to, and who I did.

    If I Have the Courage

    >>>So let us now work with a healing sentence that frequently emerges from the soul. Take a moment to get comfortable and most importantly to get comfortable with the silence that may ensue. Sit with both or either of these sentences and imagine saying them:

    ‘Dear Mother, please bless me if I have the courage to be happier than you’

    ‘Dear Father, please smile upon me kindly if I have the courage to be happier than you’

    As you sit in the silence and perhaps even with the not knowing of why you would say such a thing, be a witness to what emerges from the silence. It could be sadness, grief, relief, anger, cynicism, hostility, a need to punish etc. Whatever is present, simply allow it to be. Was it easy to say? Was it difficult?

    You may also want to alter the sentence slightly and address it to someone else, such as: a sibling who is sick, disabled, addicted, a friend who died young, a former partner/spouse who is struggling or any loved one in the present or in the past who has suffered.

    This exercise can be very potent in helping you to feel with whom you have ties of unhealthy loyalties that are stopping you from living your life more fully.<<<

  207.  #207Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Ignis, Beloved, and others – It doesn’t have to be hard. Just what I published today.


  208.  #208seahorse on May 29, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    83 Andrea!!!!!!!! Bingo!!!! Thats what I told a friend when she showed me and told me about the men coaches……………………. except I said……… Why in the world do I want to do what a man likes???? I want to do what I want. To feel better, to be better, to feel like my sweet self again. She didn’t get it………

    Thank you for posting that sweet siren!

  209.  #209BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 5:34 pm


    Dominique, thanks for the article!!

    Between C and T, I like to believe I’ve gotten my vaccination for The Hard.

    Too. Much. Work.

    Even with online dating now, if it’s even a little bit hard in the first couple of exchanges, I just drop it. I’m not going to put in a lick of effort to keep the conversation going.

    I’m a devotee of Red Tara, the B*ddh!st equivalent of Aphrodite, all acts of love and pleasure are her rituals…slowly but surely I’m making my way to erotic, eco-sexual community in OR and stepping into my purpose and power as a shamanic priestess, a steward of the earth, keeper of the bees

    and yes yes, just today I’ve been noticing how good it feels to run my tongue along the ridges of the bottom of my front teeth, thank you for the reminder to notice even more, how delicious and soft and inviting my fuzzy blue blanket feels against my bare skin when I lie on it for my breathwork and hmmm what else, oh, stretching, yes I was stretching my back earlier and omg the feel of my shoulder muscles, of my scapula sliding over the muscles was heaven, I didn’t want to stop stretching it felt soooo good I almost felt like I had some kind of secret party going on in my office, like it was almost wrong to do something that felt soooo good at work, in the privacy of my office and I giggled and meowed a tiny mew and purred and loved having me all to myself right then.

    Yes, thank you 🙂


  210.  #210Dominique on May 29, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    Beloved – Oh yes…:)


  211.  #211seahorse on May 29, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    How come men and women can’t………………… just be?? Why all the stuff going on??? I feel puzzled writing that and I don’t have the right words for the feeling………. breathing low…………………… it would feel loving to listen and speak with loving words for both……..

  212.  #212seahorse on May 29, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Keeper of the bees………………….. that sounds lovely! Thanks Beloved

  213.  #213BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 6:26 pm


    Seahorse that just came out, I was surprised…!
    I’ve got a thang for mycelium, I want to work on mycorestoration, and have had some fantasies of doing therapeutic work with horses and dolphins (separately, not with each other….although, that could be a fun daydream)
    so maybe I just discovered something about myself…Hmm….
    I asked for a sign to know my soul’s purpose and yesterday morning, the bathroom floor at work was covered in big fat dead bees.
    I mean, weird….bees all over the floor and dead in the light fixture and in the shower stall.
    That’s never happened there before, it’s not a usual event, a dead host of bees in the bathroom.
    It’s downright strange.

    I’m feeling more and more free of old grooves with T.
    Funny how one little action (or inaction) can ripple through my realit. Deciding not to try to be what he wants, deciding to let what I want matter and not try to make it matter because it’s what he says he needs.
    I called him over an hour ago and he said he would call me back in 15, he hasn’t called back yet and that is the First Time Ever I can EVER remember him either not calling when he said he would or not sending a quick text to explain. I don’t sense an emergency so
    strangeness abounding
    That’s how I like it 🙂

    I like this shift though.
    He committed to making sure I have a place to camp when I visit
    I resisted the urge to ask for committed cuddle time, realized I may not want that when I get there, I don’t want or need to commit myself to spending the night with him or cuddle time with him or anything, I can go and be free and sleep in anyone’s tent if I want, I didn’t even commit to staying in his and he didn’t ask and
    it’s not going to be weird between us if I don’t (at least not for him, I may have some codie guilt feelings come up).

    so. much. freedom.
    Loving it.

  214.  #214BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    *not try to make it NOT matter

    (typing sideways in bed, lol)

  215.  #215Liquid Light on May 29, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    I’m getting a number of men who are inviting me to stay over with them at their homes. Men that I hardly know, and one online guy that I haven’t even met yet!

    What is up with that? Its making me leery, is it a red flag?

    Ironically, this is happening at a time when I don’t want sexual energy coming at me and I want to wait longer for it. What’s the message here? Why is this happening now? How do I handle it? I’ve been basically ignoring the invitations but it does rub me the wrong way a little. But these guy actually seem like nice people so I’m a bit perplexed.


  216.  #216Daria on May 29, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    so i went there and i had sex with him! i wanted to do it for me because i dont want to keep going without sex…

    i feel desperate for a regular sex lover that i feel comofrtable with!

    and… then i tried to talk about hte relationship and i didnt feel good but i didnt feel awful

    and he told me not to stress about it

    i did ask him are we gonna be exclusive or does he think i should look for other men to be my lover…

    and eh didnt exactly know what i meant by exclusive apparently

    then he asked like do i mean be his gf – he considers that i was his gf before 3 years ago when we were dating – and it seemed like an option but i was like no i dont think i can handle gf right now i want to be married blah blah


    at least i didnt say anything mean!

    also we ran into a man who knew me who was mentionnig another man i was dating and i can see he feels not so good hearing that


    i felt so sad after sex because i didnt really get close and touched and kissed a lot, i just wanted to practice actual intercourse and

    i did

    and i feel pretty good now although i feel worried about a hormone crash after 12 hours


    i feel scared confused and insecure as FUCHK and i feel good and cared about and ‘strong’ too which actually i don’t like feeling cuz undr strong hides heartbroken/cry bad bad right?

    i feel comfy good now tho!

    i had to stop myself from beating msyelf up in the shower, im like put the hammer down

    this is TOUGH!

    but im determined to get myself a great sex life!


    he says he doesnt feel lilke i like him that much , and i know its cuz i feel insecure to really open my body and heart feelings in this dynamic, and i feel scared ill lose him if i pull back all the way to requiring a man to come to me

    and i still want to get to feeling comfortable with that

    he says he likes it when i hit him up too , but i said it makes me feel special when he does

    my NV says he couldnt wait to get away from the draining sad woman and i can’t really not believe that because i do think that but i CAN believe that it will melt away

    i have a date in 30 min !

    o ish!

    hehehehehe weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    i feel excited now

    but i dont hink ima want to have sex with this guy off the bat, i feel desperate for a man ik want to have sex with to show up so i can transfer my obsession (focus?)to him part way…

    otherwise i worry ima go into pinaholic mode again

  217.  #217Daria on May 29, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    basically right now i THINK i feel humiliated… and actually i just feel embarassed/vulnerable (ashamed) scared terrified insecure

    saying – and now having said! – i want to get married, i want that with a man , and i want that man to be YOU!

    im like gawwwhk omg DONT SAY THAT! but thats closing down isnt it?

    i could get like Rori’s example and just be honest omfg

    im not actually humiliated saying this! im just feeling terribly insecure cuz i think that i ‘shouldn’ have to’ cuz he should be the one asking me!

    but maybe me getting comfortable saying this ish is gonna get me there?


    i mean it was honest… sigh

    step by step


  218.  #218Daria on May 29, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    another worry i have is that now that i went in for this *quickie

    without arousing my body fully, ive set a pattern to where even this man who was previously a lover who aroused me and pleased me is not gonna do that for me anymore


    this is too triggering

    i keep hearing tht i just want to give up


  219.  #219Andrea on May 29, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Him: “I would have loved to have seen you tonight. Thanks for thinking of me at least.”

    Me: huh???

    He had told me he was going for a long bike ride through the two nature parks that I live next to. He had asked, “So, would you have supper for me if I stopped by?” I had said, “Definitely come say hi.”

    He never came. At 8 I texted him. I made you a hamburger and some potato wedges…

    That was his response to me. “Would have loved to have seen you. Thanks for thinking of me.”

    Hahahahah…. Well, did Andrea recieve a message loud and clear???? : )

    Love it!! I felt (feel? now that I’m rehashing it) blown off. A little irritated because his statement is so ridiculous. But also I feel honored. YES! Honored that I hear the truth behind that text. Honored because I got the answer I was looking for…. sure I made an extra hamburger and extra food, no skin of my back… and was anticipating very happily seeing him and hugging him and smiling into his face…

    But, not this time. Not this one. Not this night. And so I had time to do my nails, read some nature essays, clean my kitchen, take in the fresh spring rain, help my daughter find an outfit for her concert tomorrow.

    Now sitting down to read the blog, I feel replenished and relieved that I heard this man and am not fretting over him. The text exchange was enough for me, where as, in months past, I would have been in a whirlwind of anxiety: What does this mean? Does he still love me? Where are we going?

    Now I heard, “You are an important part of my life, just not that important to me TONIGHT. I had other things to think about, tend to, etc.. And seeing you was not my priority.”

    I can live with that. Especially since that gives me the freedom to think, feel, and communicate the exact same thing. It feels good to allow him his space, because it means I can allow myself the same lattitude.

    It also allows me to get my little siren feeling cap on and say to myself… “Now why in the world was seeing me NOT a priority for him?? And if I want that to be different, what changes can I make with in myself to turn that around?” heheheehhheh… and now the FUN begins!!!!! : ) Discovery!! I love it!!!

  220.  #220BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 9:32 pm


    Andrea, I feel a little sick reading this post. Feels like a little tiny hand massaging my gut.
    A man alluding to coming by, then not, then sending a mindeffing text like, “I would have loved to have seen you” as if mysterious forces beyond his control somehow stopped him, would kill my interest, not trigger it.
    I feel ick reading this.
    His message doesn’t even make sense.
    I would want better for myself and better for you.
    You say it’s no skin off your back but something in your mind has been triggered and now you’re looking to change yourself to try to get him to actually show up.
    Is this the guy who started sending you pics without words, then turned and flipped on you after the future-talk session? If so he is most definitely playing mind games.

    Please proceed with caution.
    Notice the article above, where Rori talks about how some men can trigger our instincts to pursue – trying to figure out how to get him to make you a priority is pursuing.
    Nothing wrong with it, I’ve just found it’s a whole lot of “interesting” without much satisfaction, joy, love, or real care and intimacy.

  221.  #221BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    And wow.
    Just woke up from a series of amazing and intense dreams.
    In one of them, I was running and running down a long, dim hall, grey brick and shadows on all sides. I am being chased by an enormous black man.
    As I’m running, I become semi-lucid. Lucid enough to know what I need to do –
    with as much force as I was running away, I turn in the opposite direction and run toward my chaser,
    I felt like I had the power and momentum of a freight train.
    No fear.
    I ran and ran into him at full force,
    he was only an illusion and I felt a rush of vibration and feelings as I ran through his image,
    I sank into it, soaked it all up,
    Yes yes!
    Reclaiming my power!

    In another dream, quite vivid, I was lying on a couch – there was more to it that I won’t share but I’ll share this – there were dozens of little tiny hands, connections, from the couch to my body, holding me there, wanting to keep me from getting up.

    As I noticed them one by one, I said, I forgive you in the name of (different names would come up), and they would dissolve.
    A few did not let go, and those I grabbed and snapped off of my body as I rose up and left the place I had been feeling mired and stuck.

    I felt as if I had been freed from a dark, murky place I had been for a long time.
    I was in a kitchen discussing this with Rori (lol), and we were both remarking how incredibly deep this was and weren’t sure we wanted to go any deeper (the stuff I won’t mention), we just didn’t know if we could. (Awake, I’m sure I can…in time).

  222.  #222BeLoved on May 29, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    And wow.
    Just woke up from a series of amazing and intense dreams.
    In one of them, I was running and running down a long, dim hall, grey brick and shadows on all sides. I am being chased by an enormous black man.
    As I’m running, I become semi-lucid. Lucid enough to know what I need to do –
    with as much force as I was running away, I turn in the opposite direction and run toward my chaser,
    I felt like I had the power and momentum of a freight train.
    No fear.
    I ran and ran into him at full force,
    he was only an illusion and I felt a rush of vibration and feelings as I ran through his image,
    I sank into it, soaked it all up,
    Yes yes!
    Reclaiming my power!

    In another dream, quite vivid, I was lying on a couch – there was more to it that I won’t share but I’ll share this – there were dozens of little tiny hands, connections, from the couch to my body, holding me there, wanting to keep me from getting up.

    As I noticed them one by one, I said, I forgive you in the name of (different names would come up), and they would dissolve.
    A few did not let go, and those I grabbed and snapped off of my body as I rose up and left the place I had been feeling mired and stuck.

    I felt as if I had been freed from a dark, murky place I had been for a long time.
    Not feeling quite totally free, yet unstuck from that one place that had accumulated quite a bit of darkness for a while. Freer than before.

  223.  #223Andrea on May 29, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Beloved.. I do see what you’re saying.
    But what I was saying was: I GOT the message loud and clear!!! The message was: Andrea YOU are NOT my priority tonight.

    I feel happy… not because that happened to me… but because I’m hearing and recieving the message… instead of tripping over myself to try and figure HIM out. I’m saying… Oh okay.. gotcha!!

    And I’m definitely NOT trying to change myself in order to get him. I’m looking for the message from the Universe in this whole exchange. My question is not “How can I be different so this one man will make me his priority?”

    My question is: “What happened here? Do I like it? It is NEVER about him. The answer is with in me? What is the message and how can I look with in to discover the answer?”

    This exchange is NOT about the man. It’s about me. It really is “no skin off my back” that a man didn’t show up. The trigger is not whether he showed up or not, or gave me the texts that I wanted… the trigger is:
    Do I like this????
    How can I look with in me to see what happened here? And how can I create something that I DO like.

    What happened could be Ick. But I’m turning it into Siren School!! : )

  224.  #224Andrea on May 29, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    And ps.. Beloved… holy socks… such vivid dreams!! I’ve been having vivid dreams lately too.

    Some say it was a really powerful moon this month. I thought, for me, it was because I’m new to this really allowing myself to explore my feelings on a Right Now basis. And I think my psyche is trying to catch up.. in my dreams.

  225.  #225sophie on May 30, 2013 at 1:04 am

    I had a conversation with a man yesterday in the pool which felt good. He is a very youthful Jamaican man in his 60’s. He appreciates women a lot 🙂 He was giving me lots of compliments which was nice but the best compliment (and I get this from time to time) was that “i’m different”. I love it when they say that because I know I’ve got the siren thing going on they just can’t put their finger on it 🙂 I’ve started to call it the S factor ha ha. That’s because I’ve got the S factor 🙂

    Tereana – this is not to diminish your powerful processing at all I was just reminiscing whilst reading your post about how I recently had a conversation with my friend whilst in a PMS phase. We were talking about how during that time we are absolutely incapable of making a decision. We actually made a rule to ourselves; don’t try to make a decision whilst your pre-period. I was contemplating going on a holiday and I was literally like yes/no yes/no every five seconds. She couldn’t decide which route to take to work and kept changing her mind half way through. It can definitely be a powerful force in our brains 🙂

    Andrea – I get what you’re saying and thank you for sharing. I felt upset the other day as a man I was due to see changed the time to several hours later. I felt upset temporarily and expressed some simple fm to which he said relax!. the old me would’ve be furious at such a flippant me as I wouldve read all sorts of things into it: he doesn’t care about me; he doesn’t want to spend time with me; other things are more important to him. This time I realised it wasn’t any of those things it was simply he was enjoying doing other things and he would be there a few hours later; he still wanted to spend time with me. So I didn’t react with a drama. I took his advice and relaxed; had a nice sleep and felt just fine when I saw him later. It feels good to learn these things.

  226.  #226Zara on May 30, 2013 at 1:23 am

    ****So, would you have supper for me if I stopped by?*****
    The guy is not telling me he is coming tonight. He is not making a date with me. He is simply asking what would be my hypothetical reaction to a hypothetical action of his.

    Yet I reacted as his totally available and dedicated wife without him having to become a husband or to even act as a husband.


  227.  #227Millie on May 30, 2013 at 2:29 am


    You are truly a goddess, so self-aware, able to “see” with such perspective….but this recent post about him asking hypothetically “would supper be ready?” makes me sick. I appreciate that you are not delving into his mind and that you are seeing this situation for what it is….and how you feel about it. I wish I could do that….
    But when I read this, my gut reaction was that he feels he is losing power in the relationship and this was a meager attempt to gain it back. I am probably being judgmental here, but I feel like he was being a little manipulative. I’m not saying you did anything wrong in this situation. I am amazed at your use of the tools always! But I would feel so differently if a man said that to me! In my perspective, his comments were reminiscent to a “beck and call,” He wanted to know you were at his beck, then once he was satisfied, didn’t come calling. It felt very subservient to me also because I feel that cooking “supper” is a very traditional, antiquated female role that I’m not happy being put into. That is my opinion. Those are my triggers, clearly not yours. Maybe I’m completely wrong because I don’t know him, nor am I in a relationship with him. I greatly admire your inner strength, wisdom, and clarity, I’m glad you are at peace with all of this. Maybe it’s the mood I’m in right now, but his comments were like a match to gasoline for me.

  228.  #228Millie on May 30, 2013 at 2:41 am

    Sophie i love the “S” factor!!!

  229.  #229Millie on May 30, 2013 at 3:14 am

    @Liquid Light–

    Are most of these invitations coming from men you meet online? If so, I would reread your online profile and revise it if there is any sexual suggestiveness that is misrepresenting what you want. If you are meeting these guys out and about, maybe you are sending out a certain vibe. It’s not necessarily bad, it’s great to feel sexually attractive. I’ve heard feedback from men that I don’t know that well saying how sexual I look and I look like I enjoy sex…and they invite me to do suggestive things. If I’m not into it, I communicate that. Have you tried using a feeling/power message when approached by men in that way? Maybe like– Oh wow I am so glad that you feel comfortable inviting me to your home. You seem like such a nice guy, I’d love to spend time with you there once I got to know you more. Right now, I feel like we are strangers and I don’t go to stranger’s houses. I would feel more at ease if we went out and experienced something together, (like…bowling or whatever you want.) Does that help?

  230.  #230Millie on May 30, 2013 at 3:18 am


    I’m sorry about writing “this makes me sick.” I think it was just a gut reaction phrase. It was not a true feeling message and I didn’t mean to put down your guy at all. I wrote as if he had said that to me, which is completely different from responding to how you handled the situation, which was with grace and strength. 🙂

  231.  #231BeLoved on May 30, 2013 at 3:37 am


    I was responding to this, ““Now why in the world was seeing me NOT a priority for him?? And if I want that to be different, what changes can I make with in myself to turn that around?”

    I understood it as you were wondering what changes you could make in yourself in order to become a priority to him.
    How could you become more of what he wants so he will make you a priority…

    These texts remind me of classic PUA moves, designed to trigger our trauma responses,
    this guy hasn’t done anything but send a few texts and has you making food for him, and wondering about him, with nearly zero effort on his part.

    The earlier texts of the photos, especially, remind me of very specific techniques I’ve read on ‘get your ex back’, that have nothing to do with “clean up your behaviors and be a better partner” and everything to do with “trigger emotional responses that get her hooked on thinking about you again.”

    From personal experience, though, knowing about the rabbit hole certainly didn’t keep me from falling down it 🙂 So I won’t belabor the point.

    As for dreams…
    I went on to have more vivid dreams, which felt like a relief after a few nights of not remembering my dreams. It feels like a loss to me, as if I’ve missed something, when I don’t remember them.

    This dream featured an ex and his 2 current girlfriends, and a boxes of prizes for me that were successively more and more valuable.
    I didn’t open them in the dream, so I may play around with it and go back into the dream later today and discover what they are 🙂 I’ve had a couple of dreams like this before, which tells me there are gifts yet to be discovered from that relationship.

    I owned my own business with him, making obscene amounts of money, doing something I loved, felt passionate about, and actually changed the world for the better….I’ve been broke and sleeping on a couch for a few years, so the dreams together suggest to me that at deeper levels I may be ready to create something like that again.

  232.  #232ruth on May 30, 2013 at 3:52 am

    What is PUA please?

  233.  #233Luzydel on May 30, 2013 at 4:01 am

    Wow; woke up yearning for sex! and the past month I have been wanting it more than ever…

  234.  #234BeLoved on May 30, 2013 at 4:50 am

    PUA = pick up artists

  235.  #235ruth on May 30, 2013 at 5:02 am

    Ah thank you Beloved

  236.  #236Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 5:16 am

    aahhhh…. Beloved…

    I think what you were responding to… that last phrase of mine was just a matter of me not being clear in my writing. I certainly am NOT trying to change ME in order to become a priority to HIM.

    I am trying to look with in ME in order to create a better situation for myself. That could mean many things… but I do need to explore it all.

    AND what you’ve said here about everything is part of the exploration. I had never heard of PUA! And I had never heard of what you were saying about the texts with the pictures….
    How this person is only trying to trigger emotional responses in me in order to GET ME BACK..

    Ah HA!!! AND it’s WORKING!! You’re so right. Little effort on his part, once again. And making food for him.


    And then, it’s no big deal when he blows me off.
    OUCH! Now I’m feeling the burn. Last night I didn’t really care one way or the other whether he had done this or not. I just felt like.. if he can blow me off like this… I must not be that important to him.. which means I can go on with my life as regularly scheduled.

  237.  #237ruth on May 30, 2013 at 5:23 am

    I am feeling quite triggered by Beloved’s posts, because I have been a victim of such emotional manipulation myself in the past
    Perhaps victim is not a good word to use

  238.  #238Ignis on May 30, 2013 at 5:41 am

    it is actually quite funny how much we females can read into words.

    I remember when my Mr. told me I am not good for him now, and the only thing I could think of is I am not good enough haha

    @Andrea, did you really make dinner for him? Because as I see it, and maybe I have it all wrong, if he asks “if” then he actually is not coming, he is just wondering, and for me that would be a good occasion to tease the hell out of it, without actually making dinner. 🙂 And I mean if he wonders about it, then it is good, so enjoy it and make even more special dinner just for yourself? Hugs!

  239.  #239Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 5:43 am

    I know Ruth…
    “The earlier texts of the photos, especially, remind me of very specific techniques I’ve read on ‘get your ex back’, that have nothing to do with “clean up your behaviors and be a better partner” and everything to do with “trigger emotional responses that get her hooked on thinking about you again.” – Beloved

    I’m not feeling victimized. But I do feel manipulated.

    I feel the need to explore this whole thing. Last night it all felt very benign. Now, I feel like something confusing and just under the surface is weighing on my chest.

    Once more I do want to honor my growth. My thoughts just months before would have been something like, “Why is HE doing this to ME?” Or.. “I deserve to be treated better than this and if HE doesn’t treat me better I’m .. leaving, punishing, with holding… ” etc

    Now I’m just noticing (and blogging) Hah!! : )

    First I’m noticing… Do I like this??

    Then I’m noticing… ME.
    How do I really feel?

    I actually feel very pressed in upon by him. Like, I either need to completely cut him off, or I’m in a state of needing his complete aproval. It IS like the rabbit hole that Beloved mentioned.

    I get too close I fall all the way in. I’m making him hamburgers if he mentions he MIGHT stop by.

    This is not a HIM problem. And there is a ME solution.

    What I’m noticing too is that I’m not completely honest with him. He makes comments that sting and I pretend I didn’t hear them so as not to have to deal with them. And a lot of the time I’d rather he not call or be around me so much.

    I feel like I really enjoy the dates we go on, but then one date turns into phone calls, and expectations, and then we are back together again. I’m noticing that I don’t want to be in a relationship with him. But that I do like to go on dates with him, and sometimes I feel an overwhelming surge of love when I am contemplating him.

    Does any of that make sense??? hahahahah… Well another thing I realize is that this is not the end of the world for me. I have papers due today, a concert that my daughter is in tonight, and a final exam tomorrow and then out with my best girlfriend for happy hour on Friday…

    And, yesterday I recieved an email from an ex lover in the city where my parents live. He was asking if I’d consider coming “home” for my birthday next month. He emailed, “I will put you up in a great hotel room with a pool for you and your daughters and then I would love to take you out to dinner anywhere you want to go. I just really miss you!”
    That felt extremely good.

  240.  #240Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 5:54 am

    Andrea – I get what Zara said but I did not notice it in such depth originally. Just that I thought why did you bother to make him dinner.

    I get what Ignis says also but if I were you I would go back to my original story. I would go back to not caring one way or other. For all you know, in the moment, it felt good to you to make the extra. He behaved like a snack and what you made was equivalent to the snack behavior.

    What we focus on grows. Our perspective on things can channel our behavior. From where I sit this is great processing on your part to get to know you. Also reinforcing Rori’s teaching – choose your words.
    He obviously chose his words carefully. Next time these words show up from him see where your mind directs you; is it making assumptions or is it leading you to use your mouth to pre-prepared script. Then you will notice how resistant you will be or not be to using your mouth to speak your truth. Then you can pay attention to your tone.

    I can almost guarantee this scenario will come back up so you can play with your creative juices to craft a script. What an opportunity?

    If this is a man you love, only he has the power to bring these things out of or in you. To me a commitment to being one’s best self and to a team will direct the mind to look for the best in the situation, the opportunity to bring out the best in me and the opportunity to play with the other person. Assuming that they had ulterior motives or anything but the best of intention might trigger the automatic negative emotional override. What could that create?

  241.  #241Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 6:00 am

    “Andrea YOU are NOT my priority tonight”

    I wonder what is wrong with this? Couldn’t he have decided that “tonight” his workout is his priority? It is only one night.

    How about interpreting it “Andrea I prefer to work out tonight” rather than making it about you? Is this taking what he said personally? Just because you decided to overfunction? Because you so wanted to see him?

  242.  #242Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 6:11 am

    Beloved/Andrea – thinking of being “in the moment” I am wondering if the first text when he refers to the food he was close by the house so his mind wandered to Andrea and how he feels when he is around her. Then he continued biking and his focus shifted. I imagine at the end of his workout he might have been tired and sweaty, focussed on getting a shower and just decompressing. Maybe even had forgotten about the previous texts. I don’t experience men as focussed on their phones as we are. I imagine that the 8pm text might have come when he had already started relaxing and look forward to rolling into his bed.

    The text might be similar to PUA lines but I would assume at that point those tactics were the furthest from this guy’s mind. Also I believe PUA lines came about from every day guys in field cdating and experiencing the things women respond to. They basically use what works for them. I don’t see it is emotional manipulation. I wonder if I really trust myself to stand up for myself who could manipulate me?

  243.  #243ruth on May 30, 2013 at 6:14 am

    regarding rabbit holes

    Chapter 1

    I walk down the street

    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I fall in…
    I am lost, I am helpless
    It isn’t my fault
    It takes forever to find a way out

    Chapter 2

    I walk down the same street
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I pretend not to see it
    I fall in again
    I can’t believe I am in the same place
    But isn’t my fault
    It still takes a long time to get out.

    Chapter 3

    I walk down the same street
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I see it is there
    I fall in.. it’s a habit…, but my eyes
    are open
    I know where I am
    It is my fault
    I get out immediately

    Chapter 4

    I walk down the same street
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I walk around it

    Chapter 5
    I walk down a different street

    – Portia Nelson

  244.  #244Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 6:23 am

    What’s wrong with having a relationship with a man who you want to cook for, if it makes you happy and he enjoys that? The lesson here for is do I do this to control a situation? Do I give to get?

  245.  #245Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 6:26 am

    Feminie Woman….
    Thank you and YES! While I really am excited to explore all the options.. this last one you stated feels like the best fit for me.

    He called me just now as I was finishing up my last post. I said, “I feel really confused about what happened last night and especially that last text you sent me.”

    And he said.. almost word for word what you said FeminineWoman. That he was close to my house, not really into his work out yet, but then he got going and got jazzed about making the 18 mile hit as he’s not been on his bike in a while, then got home sweaty and wanting to rest and shower. And that he thought about me all night long and his last text to me was just… he would have really loved to have seen me..
    And he said,, “Babe, I just really love you. That’s all.”

    So simple for him. hahahahha

    I am grateful for this exploration though because it triggered in me that I’m not being fully honest with him. It made me realize that I’m not expressing my true self to him and that a lot of the time I really need space and time to process everything that is between us. He wants to text, send pictures, call me, to make sure that I am always aware of him.

    But I need some space. On Monday, he asked me out for Saturday. I really would have loved to have been able to just look forward to Saturday and not have all this confusion and mind stuff in the in between.

    I feel like a relationship is being forced upon me… it’s not HIM… it’s because I get into OVERFUNCTION mode at the drop of a feather with him. Like Beloved said… it’s subtle CHASE mode. And the confusing thing is, I would be fine with out all the phone calls and texts and communication and the “maybe I’ll stop by.” I really like that we have a golfing date set for Saturday.

    How do I communicate… that is enough for me right now? How do I communicate that I love him and I feel so great about the date on Saturday, but all this in between stuff is really getting me down.

    I think, FW, you nailed it in your last sentence.. If I really could trust myself to stand up for myself, then who could ever manipulate me. Once again, the problem is not him. I’m just realizing that I’m not taking a stand for what I REALLY WANT.

    I’m feeling like right now I want to take my energy off of him and this situation/ quazi relationship… I don’t mean break up with him, or communicate anything to him… I mean just let him BE. And get my energy back over here where I need it to be right now.

  246.  #246Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 6:30 am


  247.  #247ruth on May 30, 2013 at 6:38 am

    Im still stuck on three Andrea

  248.  #248Syreena on May 30, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Andrea. I Agree with Beloved. Post 230

    These things in your response stood out for me.

    “He had told me he was going for a long bike ride through the two nature parks that I live next to. He had asked, “So, would you have supper for me if I stopped by?” I had said, “Definitely come say hi.”

    “He never came. At 8 I texted him. I made you a hamburger and some potato wedges…”

    This is chasing. This makes you look eager to see him and cook his dinner. Why what is so special about him?

  249.  #249Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 6:53 am

    @ Sophie, Millie and others…
    Shoot! I didn’t see any of these responses until just now.

    Thank you so much for your feedback. And so very much to discover and explore in all of it.

    Like I said before… Now the REAL FUN is just beginning.

    Through out all of this, isn’t it just so fun to be falling in love with the adventure? I feel so plump and primed and full of life when I’m down in the trenches with these experiences. I’m feeling muddy and wet and refreshed all roled into one.

  250.  #250BeLoved on May 30, 2013 at 6:58 am


    What feels best for me is not to communicate with words to someone what doesn’t work for me, I practice not doing and not participating in what doesn’t work for me. It’s the most effective communication because I’ve learned that the one who needs to really hear it is ME.

  251.  #251BeLoved on May 30, 2013 at 7:00 am

    “I’m feeling like right now I want to take my energy off of him and this situation/ quazi relationship… I don’t mean break up with him, or communicate anything to him… I mean just let him BE. And get my energy back over here where I need it to be right now.”


  252.  #252Syreena on May 30, 2013 at 7:02 am

    What is your story with this man Andrea? Is he your ex?

  253.  #253Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Hi Syreena. We met over a year ago and started dating. I made all the classic mistakes, “instant relationship”, I did all the work in the relationship, I chased, I grappled for his aproval, we went back and forth.. meaning.. he expected exclusivity from me right away, even though we never had talks of marriage or anything like that, but then I found out that over the year we were dating, he had many online flirtations and phone calls from past and present women.

    He is wealthy, twenty years older than me, a house by the lake, property in my neighborhood, etc…
    He was divorced years ago and has been a bachelor ever since with one other long term relationship before I came along.

    I am a single mom, a student, quite poor.. : ) And really extremely flattered by his constant attention.

    I started reading Rori’s blog and purchased her e-book about three months ago.. So I’m kind of new to this. But I mean.. I really got down to business.

    When I found out about all of his flirations with other women, he was out of town at the time and I was watching his house.. (and snooping like crazy) It was at the same time that I read one of Rori’s blogs about what it looks like to be an ADDICT. I realized I was way past the point of “remedy the relationship”.
    So I left. I returned every gift. I broke off all contact. I was done. No explanation, no I’m sorry, no goodbye. I just stopped. And for weeks I just worked on myself.

    Then he started calling me again, wanting me back. So where we are right now is that I am using the tools that I’m learning here to really make a better life for myself. I’m learning what I want in a relationship and I’m just noticing.. I’m just seeing if he is the one to give me that, or not.

    I’m circular dating. I’m openning up to many other possibilities. But I’m still very emotionally tied to him. And I’m still learning so very much from being entangled with him.

  254.  #254Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 7:22 am

    Beloved… Yes!! I see!! I really resonate with this:

    Don’t participate with what doesn’t work for me!

    This is going to be big for me.

  255.  #255Mercedes on May 30, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Him: “So, would you have supper for me if I stopped by?”

    Me (if this were me): “I don’t generally prepare extra food for those “IF a man stops by” moments, but if that man and I had plans in advance, I do make a mean burger.” 🙂

    Of course that’s all hindsight. I’ve never actually had a man ask me if I would prepare supper for him (except my ex-husband but that was more along the lines of how we divided up the work). I’d probably say something more along the lines of: “Ummm…excuse me…what???”

    Much Love,

  256.  #256MovingMagic on May 30, 2013 at 8:19 am

    I’m supposed to get together with AttentiveCd tomorrow & a big part of me doesn’t want to. A: this weekend is loaded with rehearsals, classes, & a video shoot. I want to take care of *me*. B: I’m not feeling any real energy coming from him. I’ll take responsibility for that…I’m learning how to be the prize & it feels like a layered journey. I tend to hold my word, I want to let go of the guilt/fears I feel over putting myself first.

  257.  #257Goodheart on May 30, 2013 at 8:33 am

    Andrea, what’s really been working for me is just remembering to make things playful.

    “Oooh, I don’t know. I feel pretty ravenous looking at all this food. I could very well eat it all! You might have to devour my loveliness instead :-)”

    No expectations – just flirtiness & fun. 🙂

  258.  #258Syreena on May 30, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Thanks Andrea, makes more sense now.

    All learning and a journey inwards of discovery.

    How are you not giving that attention that you felt flattered by to yourself?

  259.  #259Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 8:41 am

    Andrea it just goes to show it is best to ask than to make up stories. Our stories tend to be around the negative.

    “How do I communicate that I love him and I feel so great about the date on Saturday, but all this in between stuff is really getting me down”.

    I would tell him I appreciate the attention he is giving now. I feel a bit smothered and just want to take things slow. I appreciate what he has done setting up the date for Saturday, doing something I absolutely love.

    For some reason I am thinking some of this is him trying hard and making some clumsy attempts at being a good guy.

  260.  #260Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 8:43 am

    haha Goodheart 🙂

    Love it. Thanks for reminding me that seduction and sex is mostly mental. Also flirting is the best

  261.  #261Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 9:21 am

    oooohhhh…. all this is such good stuff…

    feeling very fluffy right now, like I’m cuddled up in a warm blanket of all this great feedback. I just want to cozy up into it and rest my lively little mind. I keep trying to THINK it all, and what I’m really wanting to do is just BE with it all.

    Thank you to all of you for responding and for offering such wisdom.

  262.  #262Goodheart on May 30, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Last night my fiance & I were sitting outside in our backyard enjoying the gorgeous weather. He was tinkering with something & I could feel frustration in his vibe.

    He suddenly starting ranting about how he’s not good at the thing he was tinkering with, he sucks at everything. He was spiraling. (we’ve had some stresses lately with the world in general & he was feeling it).

    At first I tried to convince him that he was, of course, good at lots of stuff. And I started listing them all .

    It wasn’t working. I felt frustrated. I felt unfeminine. So I just leaned back in my chair & felt my heart. Why was I trying to convince? I was coming at it from my head. That’s not where my power is. Where was my power?

    And then I stood up & held out my hand. He took it.

    We walked into the house.

    And into the bedroom…

    And he felt like a confident man again. And I felt like a woman.

  263.  #263Liquid Light on May 30, 2013 at 10:26 am

    @Goodheart 255 Love that! So fun!

    @Millie 288 My profile is not suggestive at all, and most of these men I’m meeting out in the real world. It’s strange because it seems to be a pattern that keeps repeating itself recently. Just really odd.

    Yeah, I like what you suggested. I’ve been a bit thrown off when it came up so didn’t really respond directly to the invitations. Now I will be prepared, thanks!

    I’m really not trying to give off a sexual vibe. In fact, I’d like to not give it off since I don’t really want to attract that kind of energy. But I guess its just part of the male/female dynamic? I’d really like, though, to get involved with a man and get to know him without the sexual stuff at least for a while. Any suggestions?

  264.  #264Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 10:45 am

    GoodHeart I am remembering Rori’s words:-

    If a man is out of sorts, not in his happy, loving vibe, do NOT try to cheer him up. Meet him where he is. If he is bummed out you say “oh crap, that sounds a bummer. I get it. I totally get how you’re feeling”.

    Meet him there and stay quiet. Do’t ask him for anything. Don’t ask him to change anything.

    Whatever is going on its not yours to fix

    The fastest way to shut somebody down is to try to fix the unpleasantness. Flow with the good times and the bad.

    Don’t try to fix every unpleasantness and make it into a good time.

  265.  #265seahorse on May 30, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Omg………….. triggered……………

    Andrea- Most excellent writing that out, thank you. Feels really great to read you.

    I feel confused then I feel reaaly glowing about the explaining all the sirens are doing. THANK YOU!!!!

    I was in a situ like this with the man I was seeing for awhile. It felt weird when he would say stuff like that too. Hypothetical situation questions………………… we would be sitting talking and he would ask something like that…………. I felt always confused about the questions……. At first i would make up something silly but he would persist……… I actually made distance from him. I moved my body away from him. Even got up and changed to sit on a chair across from him. I had said I feel very confused and I don’t understand why you ask those questions of me……………. and then I waited no leaning or speaking any further. I had felt hurt by the process. He would change the subject or come over and kiss me and pull me up to hug. Kissing fried my brain and it got dropped……………….. I love that this being discussed. Thank you sirens

  266.  #266seahorse on May 30, 2013 at 10:58 am

    you know… he said to me he was selfish and controlling. I took him at his word……………. I feel like that relationship is like a wet wash cloth……….. wring out all the lessons from it.That feels better.

    I have a question please. What does a Alpha man look like………… feel like……….. ??????

  267.  #267Goodheart on May 30, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Yes, exactly, FW. Thank you for the reminder.

    I want to remember that always.

    Stop fixing & nurturing.

    He does that to me & I actually feel annoyed by it. Even if I just say, “gosh, it feels so humid today” and he says, “BUT at least you’re not in snow” or whatever and I feel annoyed because it’s like I’m not allowed to feel that way. I just want to be acknowledged and allowed to feel sticky 🙂

  268.  #268seahorse on May 30, 2013 at 11:19 am

    When a man says something that stops me, literally i just stop and have no idea what to do but feel, I don’t speak my feelings always, but DANG!!! It shows right there on my face!!! Dismay, happy………… whatever the feeling, it’s right there………. Am I to get control on it? Sometimes it is a blank expression…………. And then I say I don’t understand……………………… I feel full of doubt, self confidence is low today.

  269.  #269Femininewoman on May 30, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Rori Raye says:

    Ladybug, Welcome – and if you want this man, then you need to hear him. He thinks your going to the ladies room and “expecting” him and his kids to wait for you is a “princess” thing – and that you do that a lot. Do you? Is there room for adjustment here? Do you need to have certain things in place to feel appreciated? If you put that “vibe” out there – he’s going to assume this is who you are. Either you’re going to have to be WAY more easy-going and adaptable – or find yourself another man. I don’t think taking exclusivity off the table at this point is the answer. Communication is. Do you have the ebook? From what you’ve written – I wonder if HE isn’t feeling appreciated….Love, Rori

  270.  #270Millie on May 30, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    @LiquidLight 262-

    Yeah I understand where you are coming from. I’m not sure where the pattern stems from, whether it is in your vibe, or something inside the men. I’m glad you found my suggestion helpful. Since you are really focused on getting to know someone without the sexual part, maybe mention that you’d like to start out as friends and see what unfolds? or maybe outright say- I’d like to take things slow.- I feel curious about you and would love to get to know you without any pressure. –Sex feels good to me when I have developed a connection with someone.– (Just a few suggestions you can tweak) If they seem to not get the message the first time maybe step it up a notch to–This feels uncomfortable–I feel uncomfortable receiving sexual advances from men I just met. Hopefully this helps you next time you are in that “deer in the headlights” moment! This has also helped me to think of what I would want to say when faced with that encounter. So, thank you!

  271.  #271Andrea on May 30, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Goodheart!!! Love that!! “He felt like a confident man again. And I felt like a woman!” !!!! Yeah!!! : )

    Love what FW commented as well. This is going to be a great helpful tool for me as well. It feels pertinent when dealing with my children as well. Just meet them where they are and allow them to be there.

    A quick update: after all the confusion about the text last night, when my man called me this morning I said, “I feel confused about what happened last night and mainly about that last text.”

    He explained it to me and then said, “I just really love you babe. That’s all.”

    In my mind I was past it after that. But he popped up at my apartment during his lunch break and was so breath takingly handsome. It was raining out and he knows that I walk the few blocks to my University so he came to drive me to my classes today.

    I loved it that he didn’t want to talk or rehash or explain… he just wanted to see me. I jumped in his arms. We kissed in the hallway, in his car, outside my school building.. oh man..
    Then he said, “What can I bring YOU for dinner tonight?”
    I already had beans in the crockpot for my little family, so I told him to bring a salad and some dinner rolls and something to drink.

    And he did! And we all ate, then he went off to a meeting and I went to my daughter’s concert. No stress, no complicated conversations, no friction.

    He asked, “What are you doing tomorrow night?”

    I told him wholeheartedly and excitedly that I was going to Happy Hour with my girlfriends but was really feeling special and anticipating going golphing with him on Saturday. He beamed and we kissed and he told me he couldn’t wait til Saturday then.

    So nice. So wonderful.

  272.  #272Millie on May 30, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    So perfect Andrea! Yay!!!

  273.  #273Femininewoman on May 31, 2013 at 8:15 am

    Andrea you see. So heartwarming 🙂

  274.  #274Liquid Light on May 31, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    @millie 269

    Yeah, that does help, thanks again! I still feel really uncomfortable with the whole situation so part of me just wants to avoid dealing with it all. However, I may have by-passed it. I have a date with one of these men on Sunday, and I won’t be staying at his place so hopefully it won’t come up again. I don’t know him well but he seems like he very nice, polite, and smart! Oh yeah, and cute too! 🙂

    Also, I am checking out a really awesome apartment in the city where I want to live. Its adorable, lots of sunlight, plenty of room, and its in a perfect location. I can walk to downtown (yes, walk, I can’t believe it) and to a great health food store, restaurants, music joints! Also, I can afford it. I’m going to be one of the first people to see it I think so hopefully they like me!

    I am so excited!!! All the pain and misery since the breakup is behind me and I am moving on to bigger and better things including men! wooohhoooo!!!! SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  275.  #275Indigo on May 31, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    seahorse 265

    For me, an Alpha man is about confidence and self-assurance. The kind of man who doesn’t ask permission to do what he wants to do and doesn’t doubt himself. If he finds people to “come along for the ride” in his life, all well and good, but he is not going to change himself to please others.

    To me, this is the essence of an Alpha man. Being loved by such a man is particularly alluring because you know that when he loves and wants to please you, he is choosing to do so and has not felt pressured into it in any way.

    These are also the types of men who run from something that resembles pressure, control or manipulation, because their autonomy is so important to their identity.

    Alpha men are also usually said to place a greater importance on their career or *purpose* in life.

    This is how I see an Alpha man.


  276.  #276Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Holy crud. This is still so raw. I feel like I’m been run over by a steam roller. I feel so crushed right now.

    I thought things were going well with my man. He invited on a date for golf this morning. We had spoken on Thursday night. Everything was awesome.

    Friday evening I was driving downtown on my way to the library and there he was, turning his car down the same street. He honked, pulled his car over. We talked. He knew I was going out with my girlfriends Friday night. He told me to come over to his house after I was done hanging out with my girlfriends.

    I told him that I felt it was best if I just went home and that I would see him bright and early Saturday morning. We hugged, kissed and said goodbye.

    He called me at three oclock this morning. He tried to interogate me about what did I do, where did I go, who drove, who paid, where was I right now, when did I get home… ???

    He started naming off the list of things that he has bought for me this past week… (I mean… creepy.. salad, bread, twenty dollars in gas that he put in my tank the last time we went on a date cause I had to drive.) He started yelling at me because he said he keeps expecting some reciprocation in this relationship and he is not getting any. He called me a drunk and a lush.

    I hung up on him. I felt like I got sabotaged almost. I was stung and so confused.

    Then this morning at the time that we were supposed to meet to go golfing he sent me a picture of his golf clubs and texted me: I really DID want to go golfing with you, but the fact that YOU didn’t show up makes me realize that you don’t want to go.


    I texted him back that I feel very confused and very hurt. Then he texted me all this stuff about how he gets sick to his stomache thinking that I am out and about “bar hopping” as he put it. And a whole bunch of other things attacking my character, my behaviors, my choices..

    I said, “I feel really confused. This feels like you are telling me all the reasons that you no longer want to date me. Is that what is happening here?”

    He texted back, “I don’t want to date you. I don’t want to see you every once in a while. I want to be your one and only man. But you want to be “on the market”. How do you think that makes me feel?”

    I said, “I feel really perplexed and really confused and hurt. It feels like this whole golfing trip was a ploy to try and modify my behaviour to fit your aproval. It feels like small rewards are being dangled in front of me, but I only get them if I behave in the manner that you aprove of. Is that what’s happening here?”

    He said, “You need to choose. Either ME or the Bars!”

    ?????? huh???

    So needless to say. I am home and did not go golfing. I am extremely confused but I also feel like I was… I don’t know… tricked some how… or.. this is so gross. I feel so mind f***ed right now.

    I called him and left a voice message saying, I feel so scared right now and vulnerable. I feel like I need protection for my mind and my heart right now. I feel like I am so done with this and with you. Don’t contact me ever again!

    Holy Crud!! What in the world??? I want off this roller coaster ride.

  277.  #277Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Andrea I imagined he went home and was scared out of his mind. He likely could not sleep and wanted to make sure that he did not lose you someone else. He is insecure and don’t want to come across as weak so he used anger. Many guys cover most of their feelings with anger. They are territorial and want to keep you away from other guys. He would only get angry if he is emotionally invested, is my humble opinion. This I believe was a great opportunity to negotiate for what you really want.

    He might be angry yes, but I believe he needs to know that you can handle his feelings. In other words tell him you totally get how he feels, that you want to hear him but you can’t hear him if you feel attacked. Also ask if he would be willing to talk to you in a different tone of voice, maybe a little softer.

    Not showing up this morning is like you running away. Rori addressed something to that effect in her comments yesterday. Showing up and expressing how you felt might have been good to experiment with. He might have already moved on from being angry. My take is that he really wanted to spend the day with you today and felt scared of losing that. He acted out on his fear. This might be his pattern when he faces fear, the question is if you can or cannot handle it.

  278.  #278Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 10:34 am

    He said, “You need to choose. Either ME or the Bars!”

    Andrea he has obviously chosen you as the ONE for him. He is asking you to do the same. If this is what you want and it feels good to you then, in my humble opinion, this was a make or break moment to tell him the terms of your exclusivity. It could even be tested with a one month commitment to see how he behaves. Tell him what you want and let him decide if he can step up to the plate. He is showing you that you have the power to influence him.

    Do you really want to be on the market? Or do you want to be in a relationship with a man who is giving you what you want?

    This I believe is a scriptable scenario unless you don’t truly believe that you can have what you want.

  279.  #279Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Don’t contact me ever again!

    Is this what you really wanted to say?

  280.  #280Ignis on June 1, 2013 at 11:36 am

    This is interesting! I struggled before to opt out and I found small excuses all the time, but on Friday I decided – enough is enough and i opted out for good, not even a thought (almost hihi)! Surely enough if you let go things start to just pop out of the blue. I never had to go in front of his house before but suddenly today the train to town did not go for some reason and I had to get a buss instead, and the only way I could make it is to go right in front of his house, but as I decided not even one though on that. So I go there and there he is going out to his veranda just as I walk by. And that was the first time I saw him and felt I have control of myself. I did not look at him, just smiled and continued to go and talk on the phone. And it does not feel scary to opt out anymore, and I finally do not feel guilty about it 🙂 warm hugs to all of you here for inspiration to stay strong on the inside 🙂

  281.  #281Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Ignis.. what do you mean by opt out?? Did you just break up with a guy?

    I am having so much trouble today just trying to flesh out all of my feelings. Right now I am feeling such rage and confusion. What is really heavy for me right now is that we spoke this morning and I asked him to please explain to me what in the world just happened. It feels like I’m in a tailspin.

    It seemed like we were communicating and least functionally but then he started saying again, “You need to choose.. either me or the bars.”

    And I started to feel myself start to justify…
    1. I hardly ever go out to the bars…
    Then I realized, that’s not true. I go out at least once or twice a week because I sing Karoake and there are lots of live music venues in our town as well. And one place I really enjoy has a great Happy Hour. I do out to bars, AND I really really enjoy myself there.

    2. I don’t flirt with other men in bars….
    That’s not true. I’m a consumate flirt. My girlfriends choose to go out with me all the time because they say that men always buy us drinks when I am along. And that is true. Last night, we were out of money and done with happy hour at about 7:00 pm and a man that I know offered to take my three friends and I over to another place that I had never been before. He drove all three of us, he bought all of our drinks, and he brought us all back home safe and sound. I had a really good time.

    3. I don’t make bad choices when I’m out…
    That’s not true. In the past I have made some really hum dinger decisions that I regret to this day. I’ve sometimes been irresponsible with my drinking, and sometimes I’ve let it get out of hand.

    All this to say, I don’t like feeling the urge to have to justify any part of my life to a man who claims to love me. But I need to look at where I am not being honest. And once again I’m forced to look at what I really want.

    I really like going out sometimes. Just as much as I like going to school, spending time with my daughters, working on my career, spending time on this blog, working out, spending time in nature, and spending time with my girlfriends… and I really like spending time with Greg. (one year relationship guy)

    But I don’t like feeling pressured into making a choice to cut any of those options out of my life.

  282.  #282Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Andrea have you considered what choosing relationship means for you?

  283.  #283Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    FW… thank you for helping me flesh this stuff out… I’m not in rational thinking mode right now.. and maybe that’s a good thing.

    “Andrea he has obviously chosen you as the ONE for him. He is asking you to do the same.”

    Something feels really OFF about this. It’s like he has chosen me as the one for him, but only if I’m a good little girl who will obey her benefactor. I feel so much pressure from him to report to him what I’m doing, who I’m doing it with, where I’m going. He even noted the time that I spent at the library because he said he drove out of town and quickly came back and my truck was no longer in the library parking lot. (It’s not just this situation.. this happens frequently.. where he asks me.. how come I saw your truck outside that coffee shop.. or how come your truck wasn’t in your parking lot at noon today when you told me you were home…) I don’t know, it feels very much like he is my father and I’m a teen age girl who needs to be reprimanded.
    I feel like there are these unspoken rules with him and if I don’t obey them, then I don’t get the meagar rewards that he sometimes dishes out to me…
    While I feel energized by his smile and it feels great when we have good times together… I also feel very weighted down and paranoid a lot of the time that I’m making mistakes.

    “If this is what you want and it feels good to you then, in my humble opinion, this was a make or break moment to tell him the terms of your exclusivity.”

    So.. I guess, I’m not really sure that this relationship is what I want. But I have to admit that I really feel like I’m not in a negotiating position… it feels like he holds all of the cards and that I don’t have any terms. He can dangle a golf trip in front me, and as soon as I “misbehave”.. he with holds his offer of a date. He says he wants to be my one and only… but he is happy with the way things are.. meaning.. he likes it that he and I don’t live together, that we are not married, that we aren’t even facebook friends.. but he wants me to be available to him.. and only him.. when ever he wants. And he wants me to come over to his house when he wants me to, and have dinner at my house for him on the off chance that he might bike by… It all feels like once again I’m in a position of having no power.

    “Do you really want to be on the market? Or do you want to be in a relationship with a man who is giving you what you want?”

    I think that what I’m feeling right now is that yes, in actuality.. even though I’m scared of being alone… I think I really do want to be on the market. I feel like there are so many wonderful things about this man, but I feel stifled and belittled and many times.. confused and like I need to impress him and chase him and work hard to keep him… and and and… I’m so exhausted by this relationship.. I feel powerless here in this place. I feel powerless.

    I feel powerless.
    I feel weak.
    I feel weighted down by this constant back and forth. I feel like I have to negotiate for love in this relationship. I feel like I have to perform for love. I feel like a dancing monkey who only gets a bite of a banana if I behave. And the chain that is wrapped around my neck is getting too heavy to carry anymore.

    “This I believe is a scriptable scenario unless you don’t truly believe that you can have what you want.”

    I think… honestly… after writing all this out… I think that I truly want my freedom. I want ease in a relationship. And I’ve never felt that with Greg. I want someone who loves me as I am. I don’t feel that love. I don’t know what that love would even feel like…

    I am feeling now that I never had that kind of love from any one… I’ve always felt that I needed to perform, behave, be a good little girl… or else I wasn’t going to get… love. ( DO I TREAT MYSELF THIS WAY??????)

    Ugh! I feel like I want to go back to bed.

  284.  #284Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    “He can dangle a golf trip in front me, and as soon as I “misbehave”.. he with holds his offer of a date.”

    Andrea our beliefs shapes our behaviors. Did he say the golfing date was off?

  285.  #285Ignis on June 1, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I’m on the mobile so it’s hard to keep up with the comments.

    I don’t feel so confident as FW to get to the point as much but I discovered one thing. My Mr likes to jump over all emotional problems. And before I would attack him because it was impossible to fix them, and he would ignore me. What I learned is I never told him how I feel and what I want and don’t want, I felt to scared to show him that, and then we would just fight and ignore and I would over function. I felt like only he could choose what will happen and I had no say. But once you really show him (I wrote him a letter) and he doesn’t step up then you opt out. No breaking up, no clouse, no bad feelings, I just stopped thinking about it.

    Andrea maybe it will work if you just breathe and figure out what you really want and do not want before you think more about what he said? Hugs to you!

  286.  #286Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Yes… he said when he called me at three in the morning…. “I kept thinking about all the things that happen in bars, people getting drunk and guys hitting on girls, and all the noise and atrocious behavior, and if you are the type of woman who wants to put herself in that position, then I don’t want anything to do with you anymore. I don’t even want to be seen with you.”

    And many other things… so I hung up on him. Then he texted me: If you show up tomorrow morning at nine then I’ll know you want to go with me. But you have to choose either me or the bars.

    So I didn’t show up.

    I guess…. choice made.

    Now he is texting me things like… “Don’t ever contact any of my friends, male or female. I am having to work on trying to repair some of my friendships that have been damaged because of my involvement with you. I am letting the cat out of the bag, they and anyone that I come in contact with will know the REAL Andrea. You may fool a few drunk people now and then, drunk people are easy to fool. Wake up in the morning and take a long hard look at your sorry ass!”

    I am soooooooo confused by this. Again, I’m feeling like I need to justify something… only I don’t know what I did wrong!!! All I can think is that the “friends” who’s relationships he needs to repair must be other women that he stopped seeing because he was with me??? I don’t know what he is talking about. I’m very confused and I feel like I’m being manipulated again. Wow! Holy crud. Wow!!

    Is this really because I chose to go out with my girl friends last night and chose not to come over to his house afterward and give him sex??? Or.. does he really want to not have anything more to do with me and he’s just using this incident as a doorway out? Or… did he really NOT want to take me golfing and he’s looking for something that I did wrong to excuse his backing out???
    Or…. Did I REALLY do something Wrong????

    Am I wrong?????

  287.  #287Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    jeesh… and by the way, I am not returning his texts to me… I honestly do not know what to say.

  288.  #288Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Andrea – RUN! “sorry ass” = emotional issues that YOU CANNOT DEAL OR HELP WITH!

    the best way is to give this guy way space to heal

    this man is in an abusive mindstate, and no man doing that will shift by you being there

    MOVE AWAY WITH NO CONTACT! you dodged a bullet

  289.  #289Liquid Light on June 1, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Ditto on that, Daria!

  290.  #290Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:08 pm





    I would say:

    “This feels really scary and bad. I don’t want to receive any more contact from you. I feel sad to end it and would feel happy if you were to look into treatment for verbal and emotional abuse. Good luck babe”

    and then ignore anything else. forever. at least a year

  291.  #291Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Andrea – ultimatums, name calling

    Sounds like a man who feels has lost control. Powerless.
    Bad behavior.

    What are your boundaries for yourself?

  292.  #292Femininewoman on June 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Such a dramatic difference from 270 above.

  293.  #293Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    when men are into the abuse state they will look for something that they can put down about you – usually somethign that YOU might also not like about yourself – to point out to you as something that makes you a ‘sorry ass’

    in this case it was your going out and drinking, but because you Don’t actually have low self esteem or feel bad about this for yourself, you are LUCKILY able to see the incongruency,

    the “offness”

    this is Abuse

    it can happen wiht ANYTHING, i’ve had men try to attack me for everything from bieng unemployed, to wearing short clothes, to going out to bars, to living at home with my family

    unfortunately if the woman buys into it… tries to explain etc, her self esteem DOES go down and she will get tied into the abuse


    im not kidding you, this ISN”T just regular, i want to be your man and i feel frustrated…


    it sux and im sorry, im sure he’s a great guy but this is NOT SAFE to continue with this guy

    i hope you take good care of yourself

  294.  #294Liquid Light on June 1, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Yes he does sound controlling and manipulative. My ex was like that and it sucked. A total mind-f**k and I hated it. Of course, all the wining and dining and trips made it hard to see everything clearly. But trust your gut, if you feel rotten and like there is something “off”, then there probably is!!! Just my 2 cents.

  295.  #295Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    i feel sad and scared

  296.  #296Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    thats what happened with that crazy Florida guy i went to visit

    i’ve had men i’ve dated Getright, and even Security man

    freak out and call me names,

    (Getright was drunk, Securityman was mad cuz he had just found out i was open to dating other men when he had thought we were exclusive)

    but it was Not like this (uh i feel so confused and scared that i won’t be clear what’s wrong with this)

    like pressure and icky put down of character for stuff i Don’t feel bad about myself but other people think i should or


    ugh wow i feel icky in my tummy and scared worried

    I would NOT tolerate this…

    oh now i rememeber i was dating a guy who suddenly “turned on me” like this and it felt whoa scary, then he tried to go back to normal/nice but i never did let him see me again

    this does not feel safe

  297.  #297Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    i feel all freaked out and scared

  298.  #298Liquid Light on June 1, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Yes, being safe is the most important thing. I started to not feel safe with my ex…I couldn’t “explain” it, it was just a feeling but it wouldn’t go away. But my gut instinct was to put my safety as my #1 priority…so make sure that you are safe, Andrea, whatever that takes.

  299.  #299Daria on June 1, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Dear Daria… i feel like controlling someone and i feel scared they won’t do what i want them to do

    and I wonder whats under that


  300.  #300Andrea on June 1, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Thanks you guys. This is such a strange thing to say… but I was feeling like… “Is this abusive??” Because it isn’t physical violence, and more often than not this man is soooo sweet and caring and nice and yes, wining and dining me.

    But, I am different now too. you know?? Before, maybe we would argue about something but I would always come under… ?? If he said, choose me or the bars… I would have made it clear to him that I chose him. and I would be miserable.

    It could be smoothed over before because I was not so focused on me.

    I am also thinking of something Beloved said to me the other day… “how are you participating in what you don’t want?”

  301.  #301Liquid Light on June 1, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    It is so important to trust yourself, not your head but your heart. We women can have such a hard time doing this, esp if we hear contradictory “advice” from others. But the most important thing to do is trust yourself, it doesn’t matter if no one else agrees with you, only you know what is happening in your heart and body. Your body feels it, your mind will argue with you, and rationalize with you, but your heart/body knows. Trust yourself.

  302.  #302Zara on June 1, 2013 at 4:39 pm


    Friends With Benefits Stinks
    Written by Rori Raye Sunday, 5 April 2009

    Here’s a comment from Regina – it’s so powerful, I felt so passionate about my answer because it’s so at the core of all women’s problems in love that I’m reprinting it whole and then letting fly:

    “Rori, Please HELP. I am so lost and feel so alone. I have been dating Robert for 4 years and you could say we have lived together all this time. We both have our own place, but from the beginning he always wanted me with him. SO I came to his place every day after work and stayed there on weekends. I had a key to his place and he has one to mine. I would get off before him and he wanted me to come on over and make myself at home and wait for him.

    He always made sure he was home right after work and we would eat dinner and then he would help with the dishes and then we would sit together and watch tv or a movie. Then we would get up and shower together washing each others backs and making love afterward and then falling asleep in each others arms.

    It was the best 4 years of my life and on weekends when he had his kids we spent all the time together like a family. Then a month-and-a-half ago out of the blue he started telling me he was going to go out with some guys from work and then he would come home to me very drunk.

    I would try to guilt him into not going. Which just made him mad at me. I know that was wrong. I finally just stopped since it didn’t help and then the parties stopped 4 weeks ago and then I woke up one morning a month ago for work and then he kissed me good bye like always and told me he loved me and would see me tonight for dinner.

    Then like clock work he called me around lunch time and while we were talking he just told me he wanted to break up and that he needed space. But he loved me and wanted to keep me in his life as his friend, because he sees me as his best friend.

    I was crushed and tried to make him change his mind. It didn’t work. Then a few days later he came by to fix some things he knew needed fixing and we talk and he asks if I was willing to be friends and to be exclusive sexually.

    I was desperate not to lose him, so I agreed. And I would see him every other night and he would come by, spend some time watching TV with me, holding me on the couch and kissing me and we would make love and he would stay for an hour or more and then kiss me good bye and go home.

    I know he went home because I would drive by and check a little later and also in the morning to make sure there wasn’t anyone else there.

    I haven’t found another car there and he is always home. Then the other night I saw him at a going-away party for a friend of ours and we ended up coming back to my place and making love and him sleeping over. I became curious and wondered if there was another woman and looked at his cell phone text messages and calls. ( only friends) He woke up and caught me and was so mad and left.

    I haven’t seen him for 3 days. And then I see him at the gym (we work out together once a week) and he showed up because he knew I needed help with the free weights. He played around with me some and gave me a few hugs, but he didn’t try to kiss me like he use to.

    Please Rori help me win him back. I know I shouldn’t have invaded his privacy but I was so desperate to know he wasn’t with another woman. I am so scared I lost him for good. Which is hard because I see him at the fire department we both volunteer at twice a week.

    I know he loves me because of what we have been through, but my insecurities keep messing things up, because I have been cheated on by an ex-husband and ex-fiance in my past. I desperately want to find a way for him to return and spend a life with him and his children.


    Regina – you aren’t going to like this. It’s tough love, so don’t read if you don’t want to hear it.

    You’re in a friends with benefits situation, and you’ve been there a long, long time.

    The “losing” of him (if you ever actually “had” him, and I don’t believe you did) happened a long time ago.

    He’s long gone.

    Some men don’t need more than what he has with you right now. There may not be another woman. There may be many other women. There may not be another woman for years. Makes no difference. He may never be into ANY woman. He may frequent prostitutes for all you know. Every time you sleep with him you are physically endangering yourself (I hope you’re using condoms).

    Here’s the Truth: He’s not into you. This is what the movie “He’s Just Not That Into You” is about – and I suggest you see it (perhaps rent it and watch it over and over and over again until you get it the way the characters finally do).

    Here’s what I want you to do, and if you decided to read this – I know all the women on this site will help you to stay strong:

    1. Drop him out of your life. Completely. NO CONTACT.

    This means – no gym unless you’re sure he’s not there – best thing to do is take a month’s free trial at another gym, perhaps some interesting dance classes, something new, but if you can’t, then make sure you go when he’s NOT going to be there.

    Same with the fire department. Take a month off, or make SURE he’s not going to be there.

    Yes – he will complain.

    He will show up on your doorstep. He will call you. He will try to belittle you, he will call you crazy, he will get angry, he will try to make your life a hell until you start sleeping with him again and being his friend.

    You’re going to have to be very, very strong and tell him this:

    “I feel so bad, so vulnerable, so lost and sad. I feel like I haven’t taken care of myself. I can’t handle seeing you. It feels too bad. I can’t be your friend, and I don’t want to be your friend until I no longer feel attached to you. So please don’t call me again, or come over.”

    And if he DOES call, or shows up at your home – I suggest strongly that you hang up the phone, slam the door before he says ANYTHING. If you need protection, call the police.

    Yes – I’m totally serious here.

    You are – (and I’m going to start a series about this, because I use this harsh terminology with my clients all the time – it’s very helpful to see it from this perspective) – you are a JUNKIE.

    He is like the needle you can’t wait to stick in your arm.

    You’re giving him your body, your heart, your friendship. And for what? For the thrill he gives you when he’s with you.

    Same with heroin.

    It makes you high, and then it destroys your life. But you can’t let go of wanting the “fix.” He is your “fix.”

    Regina – I want you to take a square look at what is really happening here – a “nice and friendly” version of the classic “booty call,” and then, I want you to….


    Every single man who even looks at you kindly, I want you to smile back at him. I want you to take every invitation you get to anywhere. I want you out of the house and in the company of some man.

    I want you to experience what it feels like to be with a man who is not like heroin. Yeah, maybe a boring man, maybe a quiet man, maybe a not-so-sexy man, maybe a man you can’t or won’t fall in love with.

    This man is not toxic in himself. He may be a very nice man. But he’s heroin for you. There is no “easing out of this.” Cold turkey is your only option here.

    Please get started Circular Dating this minute, get a support system in place (blog here night and day if it helps you – we’re here 24/7, and living all over the world on this site), get at least my ebook so you get the basics of what you need to do here.

    Now – if he ever should show up and want more than friends with benefits – you can still be easily fooled. So you have to get yourself in a place where you are dating so many men, you can handle him being one of them, should you so choose. In my experience – when you get to that point you will no longer be interested in him.

    So – this is your plan, should you choose to accept it.

    If not – and this is your choice, and a choice I don’t recommend – you can use as many of my Tools as you can get and practice with this man. But the first Tool is always around “Boundaries” – and right now, your body and heart must be “off limits” to him.

    Regina – if you decide to get on your own side, instead of working against yourself and your life – I KNOW you can do it. I KNOW you can have what you want.

    Your task is to rebuild your self-esteem in the company of men who WANT to be with you, who want to make you happy, who want to give you what YOU want. It’s very difficult to lift yourself up in the company of a man who always makes you feel bad.

    What’s going on for you here is something we’ve ALL been through. And now it’s ENOUGH. Enough is enough. Save yourself.

    We’re all here to support you.

    Love, Rori

  303.  #303Zara on June 1, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    More About Friends With Benefits and Strong Surrender
    Written by Rori Raye. Saturday, 18 April 2009

    Oh, wow – my Friends with Benefits post got some strong reactions…let’s go further..

    __Here’s the comment from Priscilla:

    “I’m a little lost on the strong reaction from Rori. I totally understand the “booty call” thing. But what exactly did the guy do except withdraw and maybe become insensitive to her feelings? It sounds to me like he got scared and gave the typical response most men give when they aren’t ready for a serious relationship. He may be toxic and can’t DO a relationship.

    I know none of his reactions were great and I am certainly not defending him! No way! Why couldn’t she just lean back and circular date? Practice the tools. Maybe Regina was Overfunctioning because she didn’t mention her own hobbies and interest. They pretty much did everything together. She also said they each have their own place. She could have went back to her place, stop being so available and set some basic boundaries for herself and him. Does anyone get what I’m saying here? Maybe some pieces are missing for me, too. Priscilla”

    __And here’s a comment from Mark:

    “Male lurker here. Typically agree with Rori and find her advice intriguing, but in this instance, I don’t really get it either. The guy spent every day with her FOR FOUR YEARS. And for now, it appears he’s not seeing anyone else. That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a “booty call” to me (and trust me, I’ve had many).

    Why not ask him why he’s pulling away? Maybe he has a lot of stuff going on in his life. Maybe he’s going through some emotional issues. Or maybe he’s just not happy with the relationship but is too nervous to bring it up (we men tend to bottle up our feelings you know).

    If he doesn’t want to be exclusive and Regina’s uncomfortable with that, that’s fine, but at least give him the benefit of the doubt. You’re operating on very limited information here.

    I see this “My partner doesn’t give me what I want, so forget ‘em” attitude a lot in men and women, and I don’t really get it. Running away without actually communicating seems very weak and selfish to me. Mark”

    __Here’s my take, and the reason for the intensity:

    This first series of posts is not about making the man wrong, or about moving on, or about anything cool or reasonable or even understanding anything or learning the lesson.

    This is about saying NO.

    Even when you don’t have full information.

    This is not about throwing things away, or belittling someone or yourself, or talking, or communicating, or arguing, or trying to understand, or giving someone the benefit of the doubt, or even getting into your feelings and expressing them.

    Those are all well and good – those are crucial, but they cannot happen until you can say NO.

    You cannot say yes to ANYTHING until you can say no to something.

    Until you can say NO to what you don’t want, you can’t say Yes to what you do want.

    In fact, until you can say NO to what you don’t want, you can’t even KNOW what it is you DO want.

    And a person who needs to check a phone or a computer is a person who cannot yet say NO.

    This is Regina.

    Once you’ve passed this point…you’re into “junkie territory.”

    Once you’ve passed this point there IS no rhyme or reason – at this point you’re being LED by INTENSITY.

    Regina FEELS the intensity.

    And I want to meet her where she is.

    I don’t want to calm her down, or be reasonable. I want to meet her at that point of desperation that feels like the edge of a knife – where whatever you do sends you off the edge and into free fall.

    I want her to know that harnessing that intensity will help her dissolve the intensity – and then we’ll get a meaningful baby-step.

    Priscilla, your idea is EXCELLENT – once you have a way to keep moving forward and using Circular Dating – but in my experience, most women, especially after 4 years, feel a hormonal and emotional attachment to a man that makes it so much more difficult – if not impossible – to move forward.

    I created an entire program around Circular Dating – Targeting Mr. Right – so I could walk you through and motivate you and support you to use this Powerful Tool. It’s the most challenging Tool to get yourself to do, because it’s also the most powerful – so I want to “prep” Regina and get her into a more powerful-FEELING place right away here.

    Once a woman’s behavior goes to checking on a man’s phone, we’re into “junkie time.” that’s when I get tough. That’s when I know communication isn’t happening, self-esteem is practically non-existent – and – that’s when I know for sure who has the POWER in the relationship: HIM.

    Number one step is getting at least a glimmer of a sense of your power back. Getting yourself back. Regina outlines herself as a woman who really doesn’t feel any personal power, and has no sense of her value, or even who she is, what she wants. Her whole life revolves around this man.

    This is the time for boldness. This is the time for getting the concept into your mind, body, heart and spirit that you are about RESCUING your LIFE. This is the time to climb up on the horse.

    Regina’s whole world has collapsed, and all she has to hang onto is whatever this man is offering. If she hangs on, she cannot shift her vibe enough to rescue herself. Her only hope with this man is to rescue herself – and if she even considers the idea of hope with this man, it will diminish her resolve to rescue herself.

    This is high stakes. This is a turning point. I’ve seen this many, many times.

    Now – about the nuts and bolts of the conversation, the baby-steps…

    I read my post over and over, and I couldn’t find anything in the speech I wrote for Regina, or my assessment, that made him “wrong” for wanting what he wants. I’m totally willing to be wrong – but I still like the speech. It says the truth about where Regina is, and sets boundaries without attack, and leaves room for her to express dismay, anger, regret, whatever she feels at that moment.

    I think it’s very interesting that some of your wonderful insights and thoughts in both of these comments are sort of “cool” – they talk about what a cool girl would do. They are intellectually correct, if seen from a distance.

    But Regina is not a cool girl. She is in a crisis. She’s a woman who went to a man’s home every day for 4 years and waited for him because that’s what he wanted her to do. She’s a woman who checked his phone looking for other women, and then let him get ANGRY and felt fear and guilt about it.

    Being reasonable is not a place to start. Considering your best interests is not a possible place to start when you’ve never really considered your best interests.

    I’ve felt, through these years I’ve been writing about this – how easy it is to give advice, how easy it is to say things that should be helpful.

    And yet, at every moment of my life, I can feel my own resistance to even my OWN best advice, and so I know there’s more to it than just knowing what the “right” or “best’ thing to do is.

    There must be some kind of IMMEDIATE, INSTANT PAYOFF for each baby-step in order for you to want to keep doing the Tools and baby-stepping – and so that’s why I have so many different ways of going about things.

    For Regina – there’s a treasure trove of what she might consider “ugly” feelings to be discovered: anger, rage, terror, revenge. She’s going to have to get in touch with her anger, and use it to propel herself forward – and every time she sees this man, it’s going to feed her “junkie habit.”

    We have to help Regina get a hold of herself so she CAN move forward and stand toe-to-toe with this man in a way that will make HER feel better.

    I know we want to understand the man’s side (I agree with you that there’s no need to judge this guy – he’s just doing what feels the best to him) and want to know what happened and if there’s any hope here. And i truly appreciate, Mark, you’re offering us here that side of it – would you please continue – it’s so helpful, and if I’m ever wrong, I so want to hear about it

    But, since we don’t identify with him (Mark does, that’s so great and helpful) – it’s much harder to look at why Regina has been here for 4 years, and finds herself in this place right now.

    I love being provocative, and I’m always thrilled when I read something that makes my fingers move at double speed across the keyboard.

    I was passionately moved, and still am, as you can tell, by Regina’s situation, and I’ve been in her situation, and know so many women who have, and I know that in order to do the “Surrender” part of Strong Surrender – in order to allow yourself to be vulnerable and speak how you feel, you have to have the “Strong” going on at the same time. The baby-steps are for both.

    Circular Dating is the Tool that works for everything – as Priscilla said – and though I might normally have given Regina baby steps…I just feel that in her situation, the biggest bang for her buck, the fastest way for Regina to get the “Strong” she needs so that when her man shows up – which he WILL – she can “Surrender” – is to say NO to the deal he’s offering.

    He’s not suggesting they “date.” He’s suggesting an “agreement.” An “arrangement.” And there is no room for her to ask him “Why” he wants what he wants. She has to say NO.

    In the speech I suggested – there is nothing nasty or angry or in any way making him wrong. She simply says NO to his deal. She doesn’t try to negotiate a different deal.

    And if any of you have ever been in this kind of situation after 4 years – you know that stepping back is much easier if you’re not sleeping with a man. So she has to say no to that. Her hormones are much stronger than anything else going on right now…she does not have an option to continue to sleep with this man.
    Regina is suffering with a problem you men have also when you’re crazy for a woman, but which is pretty STANDARD for us women – which is to sugar-coat, to see only what we want to see, and to lose ourselves in a man and relationship.

    The number one thing Regina has to do, in order to get the love and relationship she wants – and in order to BE ABLE to TALK to this man (which is something you know I’m totally about doing first and foremost) – is to get herself back.

    You are seeing this from a man’s general viewpoint – of “it’s all okay.” Men do not generally see the “problems” we women see. You men generally (and argue with me here if you like – though I’m guessing you’re a WAY above averagely sensitive man) think that things in a relationship are fine, when we don’t think they are. You tend not to understand why we’re unhappy, even if we tell you in the ways we’ve been taught to tell you.

    Did you notice that Regina always goes to HIS place? What would YOU think about a woman who stuck with you for 4 years, without talk of marriage, and always came to your place?

    Surely this man can see the distress Regina is in – and yet – and this is KEY – what he wants from Regina – what he STATED he wants – is to be “friends” with her – and YET – sew her up into a sexually exclusive deal.

    Now – you tell me – is this something a man who cares about a woman, after 4 years – says? No. this is all about HIM.

    He has basically had a great home life with Regina for 4 years, and now wants that home life to continue, but with less contact and less commitment.

    Yes – he is withdrawing. And YES, the only way Regina can bring him close again is by NOT DOING what she’s been doing for 4 years. She needs to reverse this completely. If she’s been driving him away by giving and pursuing, then she needs to stop that. If he’s having personal difficulties, but doesn’t feel comfortable talking about it with Regina – her asking him isn’t going to help.

    The ONLY thing that will jolt him into even a WILLINGNESS to have a “conversation” with Regina is if her VIBE is different. If after 4 years they do not have the communication for him to do anything but withdraw – Regina needs a new way of communicating.

    Strong Surrender requires holding onto your inner strength so you don’t go chasing a man to fulfill you.

    In my experience – the only way to begin a conversation a man does not want to have is to feel that you can walk away at any time – and to be able to say – I am FEARLESS about having this conversation, because if we can’t talk to each other, then I’m gone.

    And for Regina – that is very, very difficult. Can you see from her letter that she has basically done everything “he wanted”? That he says what he wants and she does it?

    This is a psychological issue for Regina, and it’s a case of getting your “diva” on so that you CAN ask him what’s going on, and use my Modern Siren Tools to turn things around.

    A man who goes out and gets drunk instead of talking, and a woman who “goes along” are not good candidates for the “heart to heart” conversation that needs to happen here. Heart-to-heart talking is a skill, and you need backbone in order to do it.

    Regina needs to tend to her backbone before she can talk – otherwise it will come out the way it always has. He needs to be shaken up with – “I have needs that don’t fit in with your description of the relationship you say you want with me – which is ‘friends with benefits’ – and I don’t exactly know how to talk to you about it. It would feel great to talk about how this happened and how you’re feeling, and when you want to do that, I’d love to talk with you about it, but until then, I don’t feel comfortable with the arrangement you’re suggesting.”

    The prevailing wisdom in the “get him back” community of experts is that – if a man does or says something about needing “space’ – the first thing you do is AGREE WITH HIM. “Oh – I’m so glad you said that, you’re right, it’s the right thing to do, this isn’t working the way it should, you’re so right, and I’ll be fine.” And then you smile, and go out and date every man or woman who shows up in your life.

    And yes – this works great. Only – it’s a lie.

    No one feels that way when someone you love withdraws and goes away. No one.

    Yes – it pulls them back. Yes, it works for a minute. Yes, it even makes them jealous. Sometimes.

    But then, you have to keep it up. You have to always stay at arms distance. You can never stop lying.

    And I am completely opposed to this.

    The whole core of my work is about telling the truth – and the truth is that Regina is heartbroken, mystified, thrown for a loop, totally confused, and has deeper feelings that are hard to even connect with – rage and terror. How can things be brilliant for 4 years and then suddenly dissolve?

    Mark – you know the answer to this.

    Something happened. Regina’s man was going along, content, and something happened. Something shook him up, and he no longer felt “content.” He no longer felt “in love” – if indeed he ever did – and suddenly, contentment wasn’t enough.

    Well – there’s a big, big difference between “contentment” and what you need to commit to a woman forever.

    He is trying to EXTEND his “contentment” at Regina’s expense.

    REGINA HAS TO ASK HIM WHAT HAPPENED. YES. But the basis for that conversation is not there. and the reason it’s not there is because Regina is still at his “beck and call” – emotionally.

    This is not “cutting bait.” A man is not a fish. Fish do not yearn to jump in the boat and be eaten.

    But a man yearns to throw himself into the heart of a woman who can appreciate and love him – and above all – love HERSELF.

    This is the step I want to help Regina recover – her love for herself. In that process, her man may rekindle his feelings for her – if, as I said before – they were ever more than “friends with benefits” – and I doubt that they were.

    There’s so much here – let’s keep the discussion going. I don’t have to be right. REALLY. Actually there IS no right. I try to see what’s really there, to the best of my ability, without rose-colored glasses – and to suggest you take the STRONGEST steps that will get you where you want to go the FASTEST.

    Love, Rori

  304.  #304LoveAlways on June 1, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    I feel lonely, but not a sad type of feelings. This is an open lonely feeling, not closed in and small. I feel big, not tiny.

    This is day nine of no contact and I’m feeling a little shaky here and there, but I’m steady at the same time.

    I am going to listen to all of Rori’s programs that I have for a siren refresher.

    I lost myself in love, and I want to feel how not to do that again and still love. So much going on in my heart and feelings. Need to evolve some more.

  305.  #305LoveAlways on June 1, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    I fee like I’m starting all over again, like day one when I first discovered rori’s ebook ~sigh~

  306.  #306Indigo on June 2, 2013 at 12:56 am

    Wow, Daria’s post 292 was so wise.

    Andrea, I have been through this before with a man who was loving and giving me his whole heart one day, and then being verbally abusive and offering put-downs the next.

    They feel so terrified and out of control. I believe men behave that way because they are desperately trying to shut down the strong feelings which are coming up for them which they have no idea how to handle. They feel too strongly for you to be rational.

    I really hope you find a way to handle this for yourself, because if this behaviour becomes a pattern it is very painful.

  307.  #307Daria on June 2, 2013 at 1:06 am

    honestly i dont know Why they do it exactly (tho i do it to them myself in my head)

    but i know that if they DO do it, out loud, its TOO MUCH DRAMA to be available for Healthy relationship (its actually abuse, but ima woman to whom even physical abuse seems ordinary – i dont even judge men who do that)

    but basically i know this, if they start the put downs, especially doing something like talking about friends and ‘your sorry ass” and actually trying to get me to feel bad about myself – some how that triggers me more than if they called me a bi8tch even

    that’s … ‘psycho’ and its scary and it’s kinda ‘girly drama’ to me . big turn off

    somehow that ‘your sorry ass’ phrase totally really gets me… along with the big story about other people i dono … thats just too much for me, too much like abuse abuse pscyho make stuff up to beat you abuse

    i feel glad it triggers me cuz i can be outta there

    it’s possible that i just get triggered more by stuff like ‘your sorry ass’ or ‘youre worthless’ kinda stuff

    than i do by bit9ch slu9t ho0e stupid and all the other ‘regular’ kinda stuff

    the youre worthless thing seems like clear delusional abuse that will escalate ish, while the other stuff could just be in the moment anger and attacks that could get stopped

    bascially i wouldnt trust someone if they said some WEIRD shit about other peopel seeing the ‘real me’ and all that

    thast jsut WEIRD

    and WEIRD aint good

    i know how to handle regular abusiveness, but WEIRD abusiveness feels like a turn off (lol!)

  308.  #308Daria on June 2, 2013 at 1:07 am


  309.  #309Daria on June 2, 2013 at 1:10 am

    ive encountered that WEIRD put down flipside ish with men i just met! or not even met yet off the site!

    thats how im so knwoing about it being weird, these peopel are weird! whether it happens 1 year into knowing him (like the guy i thought was one of the nicer that i dated till then) or a week (like Florida guy who was also texting my parents!) or right away, that ish is WEIRD and not trustworthy

    its not your average fu9ck u bit9ch im mad

    its psycho made up scenarios and attempting to sabotage your self esteem on some weird trip of being emotionally abusive

    that ish does NOT just resolve, to me thats like way too involved of a put down

  310.  #310Daria on June 2, 2013 at 1:12 am

    i feel glad to explore this

    i feel curious what the diff is for me between Getright’s “fu9ck u bit9ch im drunk” kinda ish, which doesn’t really faze me other than hanging up

    and what i see as this weird shit that i feel like running away from turned off instantly, its just so… immature and WEIRD liek im gonna tell your Friends? liek made up scenarios ? i mean thats some serious stuff to deal with it seems like that person Needs therapy

  311.  #311Daria on June 2, 2013 at 1:13 am

    eh im feeling confused in my head

    i get it in my feelings tho

    maybe cuz when i was in a physically abusive relationship he Was making up weird scenarios and that scared me out of that kinda stuff

    plus i seen it with toher people

    that seems like the kinda stuff that goes who who beat your ass worse and worse and maybe like torture you or something

    its like a phat ass keep away

  312.  #312Indigo on June 2, 2013 at 2:12 am

    Daria, I get what you’re saying.

    For me, “in the moment” anger is not intimidating at all. I have had a lifetime’s worth of experiencing dealing with people who express their frustration explosively and I feel almost completely calm in the face of it, like the eye of the storm. I just wait for it to pass, I leave the room, or I don’t, but it doesn’t affect me whatsoever.

    Someone attempting to find subtle, made-up ways to put you off balance, make you feel badly about yourself and avoid communicating is a completely different matter altogether. To me, that’s not just expressing how you feel in the moment, that’s a far deeper issue which is a symptom of serious hurt and needs serious healing.

  313.  #313Andrea on June 2, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Wow Zara.. That post about Friend’s With Benefits is the very first post I ever read of Rori’s. When she talks about that desperate place of being a Junkie I was right there. I was snooping all over my man’s place at the very time I read that post.

    I could not believe how real it was for me. That’s the post that set me on this journey, and why I purchased the to start out with. Isn’t it amazing that I am back in the reality of that post and this time in a different way.

    Thank you for that. And Daria thank you so much for your confirmation and validation. I feel, at least, that I have true authentic support from you because I have shared on this blog what I don’t even share with my best girlfriends or my sisters. Many of the women I am friends with do not like the man I’ve been involved with. They always saw something off about the way I reacted to him.

    Yesterday I went to a grad party with my gf and I had a really good time. But Greg was texting me every hour at least with vitriol, hatred, accusations, and name calling. I did not respond.

    Then he called me late last night and we talked and he said something extremely deplorable not about me but about my daughters. And even when he said it, I could tell that he knew he had gone way over the line. I still couldn’t wrap my mind around why he was trying so hard to hurt me. Or punish me. ???

    Anyway, this morning now he has texted me apologies, how sorry he is, how much he misses me, how much he loves me, how fearful he was on Friday night because I went out with my girlfriends and not with him, how lonely he was and how he only wanted to be with me and nothing else made him happy, and how he felt like I was just shoving it in his face that I was out having a social life while he was at home alone. He asked me to go golfing with him today. He said, “You tell me when you have a real need, and I’m telling you right now; this is a real need for me. I need to see you face to face and at least be allowed to make amends.”

    I feel nothing… actually. I feel dried up inside. I’m not sad or mad or hurt or anything. I can’t feel anything right now except that I am not going golfing or anywhere with him. I asked him to text me later and if he bikes by my apartment I will come out to the front lobby and we can talk face to face. But I don’t have any feelings about it. I don’t have anything to say to him. I feel empty.

  314.  #314BeLoved on June 2, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Andrea I feel sick in my belly reading this.
    This isn’t what I want for you or for ANY woman.

    I feel apalled that you would give this man the time of day, I would consider this behavior abusive and I don’t want to be abused and I don’t want you to be abused either.

    I feel alarmed, I feel that you are in danger and don’t seem to notice for reasons I don’t understand.
    I’m going to break a rule here and make a suggestion that you have someone you trust be with you to witness this conversation if you insist on having it, because I do believe you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

  315.  #315Rori Raye on June 2, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Andrea – I’m with BeLoved here – This man is abusive and dangerous and toxic. No decent, healthy, reasonable, okay man says vitriolic, hateful things to any woman. Period. Please eliminate him from your life as quickly as you can.

  316.  #316BeLoved on June 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    I feel angry angry angry ANGRY.
    I tried to warn, I said, this guy is mindf*cking you, and others say…Oh …it’s nothing, he’s just being a guy and I’m saying…I KNOW this pattern
    it’s like saying, I HEAR a rattlesnake, I know it when I hear it I’m telling you I grew up surrounded by rattlesnakes, I know one when I hear one stay away from it! and others telling me oh, shush, it’s just the wind and I’m saying, don’t step in that rattlesnake nest and someone else says, oh, rattlesnakes aren’t bad, don’t make up stories about rattlesnakes
    unless it’s a GOOD story about a rattlesnake
    then someone’s thinking, well, I’ll just pet the rattlesnake and it will be my friend
    my heart feels raw
    I feel tears and sobbing
    and there’s nothing I can do but say, look out for the rattlesnake and stay away from it myself
    and in my mind I I muster a tsunami of love and compassion and take us all into the light,
    “here we are”
    turn away
    focus on me
    get back to packing.
    It’s not in my control.

    Feeling grief.
    T said, yes, give up that dream you had of anything we might have had that we talked about co-creating together.
    I give it up
    Grief and liberation.
    I give it up. A hundred times a day I give it up. Over and over again, as many times as it takes.
    Focus on me.
    I know on the other side of the pain is pleasure and freedom
    I love my process
    turn away from the pain
    break the habit
    back to me
    to the now
    to packing and cleaning out my apartment
    I’m here I’m here I’m here.

  317.  #317Andrea on June 2, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I feel more intensity, emotion, and life from this blog than I do… did… this afternoon when I saw him.

    I don’t feel physically unsafe in any way, shape, or form. I’m not questioning whether I’m unsafe. I know with out a doubt that I am physically safe. This man does not, has never, ever been physical. He is also extremely sensitive to what the people in this University town think of him.

    That being said, when he texted that he was biking over, I asked him to meet in the courtyard of our building where the Public Safety Office is. Our security is operates 24/7 in this building. So, I waved at the two guards and sat outside their window. When Greg biked up he didn’t act like that bothered him at all. He didn’t even notice. He just sat down next to me and talked.

    He told me that he has been struggling with alcohol. That he has been 80 days sober and was going to meetings about alcohol. He’d been having an extremely hard time because when I go out with my friends I drink. He said that he wasn’t expecting me to quit drinking, it was just really hard for him to fight off the temptation of having his usual two or three drinks after work or before bed, when I was drinking and talking about it.

    On Friday night, when I out with my friends, he “fell off the wagon”. He drank. He got drunk. And then he was mad at himself and called me at three in the morning and took it out on me. And when I responded the way I did and then chose not to go golfing with him on Saturday, he was hurt and scared.

    I just listened. I felt extremely relieved to finally understand what in the world had happened because I had been so confused up to that point. I felt happy that I was being told the truth. That feels really really good. Like the clouds were rolled away. I felt happy knowing that this whole episode was not really about me, but about him.

    Then I felt very resolved to not be in a relationship with him. I felt very solid and very powerful to look at him and say nothing at all except, “Thank you for telling me the truth.”

    I had a moment… a small moment… of clarity and feeling very sure about myself and about my strength and about what I want for myself and especially my daughters.

    (Then…. he kept talking about his feelings, how he feels about me, how he doesn’t know how to make our relationship work but he wants to try so badly, how I am the one he thinks about when he wakes up, when he goes to bed, all day long at work. How I am the woman for him and he wants to be in life in any capacity. How he wanted to do something special for my birthday which is coming up soon… etc…
    And I felt in my heart that there was nothing there for him. There was no love left for him, I felt empty of love, and empty of longing for him, and empty of wanting him. And then I felt sad.
    And it was so hard to sit in those feelings while he kept talking and looking at me and needing me to still want to be with him. It was so hard to just BE in those feelings. I felt like I was going to burst. I felt so strange… taking care of myself, putting myself first, being strong by myself. It felt so so strange. I felt it feeling strange. I felt myself panic. I felt myself feeling out of my comfort zone. I felt scared…. So I folded. I did what I always do. I reached out, touched him, hugged him. I didn’t need to do anything else. He relaxed into my body. He stopped talking. He hugged me, kissed me. Asked me if he could please take me out for my birthday, could he please call me at least. I said yes. He got all happy and child like and excited and started talking about what he was planning for my birthday. And something with in felt like I had failed myself somehow. He is happy. I am blaze’. I did tell him that it was too much pressure for me to have him calling me everyday and that if he was asking me out for my birthday, then let’s just plan on getting together then and not being in contact on a day to day basis. He said he understood that and did not want to put any pressure on me. Then he went home.)

  318.  #318Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Andrea – I feel so happy! I was going to say… it sounded as if this was a drunk tirade, and thats the only way it wouldn’t be as “weird”

    but since he was harping on you for that, i figured that wasn’t what was going on… i feel glad it was! this makes me feel relieved …


    and as far as the physical abuse i mentione about, it wasn’t that i was worried that would happen now (actually i wouldve expected an apologetic, very nice man now) but over time if the relation continued and this verbal abuse behavior continued

  319.  #319Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    also Andrea – i wouldn’t shut down towards him.

    that No-love/dead feeling (i had it recently)

    you can still open up.

    you can feel dead and even rageful and still let him touch you and give to you and let him in (very powerful moment in Love Scripts for Relationship where Rori works with a woman mad at her husband)

    its ok to feel nothing towards him, it doesn’t MEAN anything (tho i know i thought it did big time when i was feeling it just a copule days ago)

    you’re working through BIG BIG STUFF!

    keep loving you girl ! I feel so glad you’re sharing here

  320.  #320Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    whoa i just read the second post about him saying bad stuff about your daughters…

    i mean … drunk or not you don’t want to deal with this…

    big breath! this feels TOUGH! 🙁


  321.  #321Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Indigo – I feel totally got. I want to not feel afraid in the face of that momentary anger… wow i feel amazed that you dont’. I made a big healing step with that today actually with my coach

  322.  #322Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Beloved I see you girl! We on

  323.  #323Daria on June 2, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Rori – i feel so guilty for copping out on emailing you a short version of this!

    I love my guilt and shame

    thank you for showing up and speaking anyway!

  324.  #324Andrea on June 2, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    I do hear what you’re saying Daria.. and everyone. I am listening. And I’m processing it all myself and really trying to do what’s best for my girls and I.

    I talked to my daughters about the stress they have been watching me go through. They said they would rather this man not be in our lives.

    I am feeling as though I really need to back way off. I did call him and I told him that I feel like I really don’t want to go out for my birthday with him. I told him I really want to be done. I didn’t say it in anger, or pain, or anything. I just feel like something went too far for me this weekend. (just some things he said made me feel so uncomfortable, so twisted up, so out of the ordinary realm of anything that a grown man should ever say… that I can’t even repeat it and I want to get it out of my head.)

    I feel like this can’t be repaired. I’m sad for him and sad for me. I feel scared, anxious, and very tired.

  325.  #325Daria on June 2, 2013 at 9:58 pm


    totally sux! but you’ll be happier soon ! (and he’ll have the healthy boundary from you – thats what LOVE and TRUE HEALING SUPPORT looks like – the space to pursue his own healing)

  326.  #326Andrea on June 2, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    I don’t mean… scared.. like that my physical being is in harms way. I just mean.. I feel scared about my future. I feel scared because I’ve been involved with this man, back and forth, for a year and a few months and every decision I’ve made has been with him in the back of my mind. The things I thought were going to happen in my future once we “got our relationship on track.”
    I’m feeling scared because I am really realizing fully that I was not thinking clearly. I was not seeing things clearly. That fantasy life of him being my man and taking care of me and of me getting to live in his big house on the lake… all of that is not going to come true. Because what I called “going back and forth” was actually.. .quite possibly.. emotional abuse.
    And this verbal attack on me this weekend in phone calls, texts, and etc… has happened before, not this intensely, not this shockingly, but it has happened and now I realize that it must be when he gets drunk. I just wasn’t wanting to notice.
    And yes, it looks like he realizes the problem he has with alcohol, and it looks like he really is trying to improve and work on himself and really does not want to lose me. But right now… I can’t be in this. Not with daughters, not always wondering… “Is he drinking? Am I going to get another tirade of verbal abuse?”
    I’m scared because it’s hard for me to believe that I went this far with this man. That this has been okay with me up to now.
    Anyway… sleep time. I need to pray… I really miss my connection with the Divine tonight.

  327.  #327Andrea on June 2, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Oh Daria.. thank you for that. Yes! That feels so much better to me.

    I’m giving him the space to pursue his own healing. Yes!!! Thank you. I feel so much peace because of that.

  328.  #328Indigo on June 3, 2013 at 4:05 am


    I just feel the need to tell you that what you said to Andrea here was so INCREDIBLY healing for me, and just exactly what I needed to hear.

    The most loving thing I can do right now is cut bait.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you Daria. You said it in a way I could hear.

    Will write more about this later.

  329.  #329Mint on June 6, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Hi Rori
    Recently I purchased your videos and I have learned a lot. Very inspiring and I have more confidence. I watch everyday.
    My relationship is improving.
    I need your advice. I have been dating a man for over two years. We are talking about having a baby and living together. He met my parents and I met his parents. We work at the same place ( we don’t talk at work at all) but see each other three times a week. I go out with few other men often. He does not know. I really like this man a lot and he expresses he wants to be with me for rest of his life. But I haven’t got any ring yet. We are talking about living together at his place perhaps. I am not sure if I need to suggest him to marry me…. I do not want to pressure him and I expressed my feeling last night…. I also told him I can not keep dating if he is not sure. I can not invite him to my friend’s place or party if we are not going to be together. Please advise me what I need to do?
    Love, Mint

  330.  #330Rori Raye on June 6, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Mint – WElcome! I have a lot of thoughts about what you’ve written – let’s see what the community says, and I’ll jump in with a full post. Love, Rori

  331.  #331Erika Awakening on June 7, 2013 at 5:06 pm


    If you’re still looking for suggestions, some practices I find really helpful are:

    1. breathing, as was already suggested

    2. yin yoga

    3. bodywork like deep tissue massage

    4. not overscheduling, spending a good solid amount of time in solitude

    And wowzers it feels good just being here and reading the blog and the comments. I feel a warm “letting go” … met so many guys lately where it just wasn’t the right fit and it was so easy to let it go … enjoyed the meeting and the flirting and that was it. No need to judge them – the purpose of our meeting was already fulfilled.

    Lately my challenge is not getting on any more hamster wheels, including in business.

  332.  #332Femininewoman on June 14, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Hi Mint. You are talking about living together and having a baby but have not talked about what you want? At least that is what it seems like to me.

    I encourage you to fearlessly experiment with speaking your truth. Put words to your feelings. Two years is a long enough time for him to know what he wants.

    Rori’s no-girlfriend speech might be able to change the destiny of your love life “I’m not looking to be a live in girlfriend or roomate. I’m looking to be a wife, to be married and have a family. I really enjoy being with you, and don’t want to put pressure on our relationship. What do you think”?

    I encourage you to write scripts about what you really want.

  333.  #333Mint on June 15, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Thank you for your messages, ladies!
    I was sort of depressed for years. But, since I found Rori and you ladies here I have been moving forward with positive experiences. I have gained more confidence. It is incredible to see myself so happy with men and women I go out with, come close to me and work with.
    Rori’s no girlfriend speech, dance positions and Erika’s meditation – breathing….. have changed my attitude towards my life and relationships to men.
    I was very anxious to know when he would propose me and give me a ring for last several weeks because my birth day is coming up and I did not want to spend another year wondering when I will meet Mr. Right. Then, I booked some weekend gateway, went for coffee, dinner, museum with other men. I have noticed that I could enjoy my life
    with not only my current boy friend but anybody without having physical intimacy. I appreciate my life more.
    Three days ago my current boy friend who dated me for two years suddenly became anxious around me.
    He seemed nervous when I told him I will go home
    after dinner and asked him to drop me off at my place. Every Friday I went out with him for dinner and we spent a night together. I stopped.
    I also did not contact him because I was busy with other dates and spending time to re-decorate my room – to make it more feminine and relaxed for myself to feel comfortable.
    Rori’s advice really works!!
    He asked me to meet my parents and we had him over at my parent’s home. He told them that we are not just dating and want to spend a rest of life together. I was very shocked. Then, I let him in my room and he asked me “Can I get you a ring?”
    I could not believe what he said. I followed Rori’s advice and stay relaxed and just smiled at him.
    I said I would like it. He said he already arranged a ring at a shop and made sure my size…. this happened last night…
    What amazes me is that I have gained more confidence and found a joy with or without this men.
    I do love him very much but I am not depending on my happiness based on how much attention he gives me. I value myself the most. I want to thank you to all ladies here and Rori. Rori seems like a beautiful mermaid and special messenger from heaven. You are incredible, intelligent and I respect what you do for all women who suffer and have lost directions. Love, Mint

  334.  #334Erika on June 15, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Hi Mint,

    Wow – congratulations! I feel so happy for you 🙂 And you sound so happy 🙂

  335.  #335Mint on June 15, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Thank you, Erika
    Yes, I am feeling more positive and happier.
    I tried POP exercise and found purposes and what makes me keep going. It it not just about men
    but it is to find what I really love in my life. Rori’s
    coaching has helped me to focus on myself first.

  336.  #336Jonnie on June 29, 2013 at 7:46 am

    Need a little encouragement…..spoke from my feelings about how I felt when M asked me to do something last minute, regularly. He responded very well, humbly, said that was not his intention, and that he appreciated me sharing my thoughts. Now, I haven’t heard from him for about 5 days…..he had been texting me good morning several times a week, and starting to call more often. He travels a lot, and has is visiting family in Florida thru the next several days. I am proud that I haven’t texted, or contacted him these past 5 days, but I have to say it feels like he is slipping away and that our connection may be weakening. Comments?

  337.  #337Mint on June 29, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Hi Jonnie, I’ve experienced with a men I used to date and I feel how you feel. I am proud you haven’t texted or contacted. I went out with a man and really liked him and shared my honest feeling with him. Then, he did not contacted me. It is better not to contact till he initiates first? that was what I did. It worked!!!!!
    my self-esteem went up. I booked manicure & pedicure. I went online to look for sexy hair style –
    I always wanted to get more feminine hair cut and change my image. I picked pastel color clothes.
    I spent time working on myself. I heard very beautiful music. Then, I went out with another guy for coffee. I went my favorite shopping mall and just did window shopping. Seeing various things and hearing and touching brand new leather high heel shoes and bags made me feel so great somehow. After 13 days, this guy who didn’t contact me called me to see him. I was already confident to be selective…..means that I did not have to feel needy when he called. I made him wait two days to see him and when he saw me, he got nervous that I may have someone else because I feel great about myself and look great. He begged me to go out for dinner and spend time at his place on weekend. Then, another guy has asked me out.
    I feel I am stronger inside and when I feel secure about myself – men come to me…. it is interesting.
    I got a ring from a man on my birth day (last week)
    We haven’t talked about wedding date or where we live yet. So, I still keep the same attitude. I want my life to be richer inside and feel happy and I do not want to chase men anymore. In stead I continue on spending time on myself and be ready to have a great time with a right man till I marry.
    Hope this message helps you feel little better….
    sending you positive and happy thoughts, with Love
    from Mint

  338.  #338Mint on July 7, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    I need your advice. I have never lived with any men
    and married for over 40 years. I am single.
    Recently, a man I was dating for two years asked me to be with him. He gave me a ring. He had married for over 15 years. He divorced. It was not easy for me to deal with his past and he has made it clear he will be with me. Tonight I did feeling speech to him. What we will do after I received a ring from you? I feel I want to move into your place as you suggested me before.
    He said: I do not know what else I need to do beside giving you a ring and told your parents we will be together… I felt he is just acting clueless? he married before. Don’t we need to plan for wedding? don’t we need to plan moving my stuffs to his place? I do not want to be pushy to him and I did not want to suggest anything tonight. I just said
    I would feel very happy if we can plan those things.
    We can not just keep dating like this. I am trapped just because he gave me a ring. He sounded kind mad. Maybe he still wants to enjoy his freedom?
    I don’t see him everyday. I see him couple times a week till he confirm those important things.
    Did I ask him bad questions? Should I have waited him to tell me first. Should I stop seeing him?
    I work with him everyday actually. We do not talk
    at work. We keep a good distance in office.
    Please advise.

  339.  #339Vi on July 8, 2013 at 12:08 am

    I feel my sadness dissolving…. just noticing….

  340.  #340Vi on July 8, 2013 at 12:22 am

    Hi Mint, I feel curious to know your own view of your ideal relationship timeline and what would feel good to you to do next..

  341.  #341Mint on July 8, 2013 at 12:25 am

    Thank you for sharing your message here
    I am feeling little frustrated. I am also feeling everyday that I never married before and kind concerning about my future. I do not want to live
    alone all my life.

  342.  #342Vi on July 8, 2013 at 12:28 am

    I feel drawn to yin yoga name… feels like gentle music to my ear.. maybe there is something for me in it.. I feel like exploring it..

  343.  #343Mint on July 8, 2013 at 12:33 am

    I actually never lived alone in my life.
    I lived with my sister, roommates. I never lived with a man and married. I have worked so hard and noticed that I want to take care of my personal life more than
    anything else.
    next step is that this man hopefully initiates to have me live in his place. He got this place (one studio space condo) because I really liked the area. He picked the place for me. He said. But I wanted to give him and myself time to be ready because he married over 15 yrs and divorced couple years ago.
    Too soon to move in for me… I thought.
    I want him to make a plan for wedding and talk about living together. He always contacts me and tried to see me as much as possible. I haven’t given him as much as he wants because I don’t want him
    just see me whenever he wants to at his convenience. What you suggest?

  344.  #344Mint on July 8, 2013 at 12:35 am

    I want a baby and start a family when I am still physically capable.

  345.  #345Vi on July 8, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Hey Mint! I view you as an artist who’s standing in front of a clean sheet and has got all the power and tools to paint there anything she wants and feels like painting.. Would it feel good to move in to see how you feel living together, while securing yourself with a wedding date and letting him know you would like to have kids?

    ..As for me, I feel okay communicating my requirements first/ inviting a man to meet my requirements , i.e. unless I don’t feel fixed on the outcome (or ‘expectations’ in Dominique’s terms I guess) and there is room for ‘no’ as an answer in my heart.. it may be different for you though 🙂

  346.  #346Mint on July 8, 2013 at 1:15 am

    Hi Vi, it would feel good to move in and live together.
    I also feel little afraid it it is ok to tell him and move in. What if it does not work out? What if he never marry me?

  347.  #347mayflower on July 10, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Hi Rori,

    so here’s the situation.. talked to this guy… was circular dating n still am… excellent advice must say… except.. we talked for 8hrs …and then…he said nice things.. like im falling for you.. i love you.. wanna make love to you blah blah.. all over the PHONE!!! crazy yes.. but we really hit it off… cos we talked about our lives.. we r both gng thru a divorce.. and seemed like.. we really were falling ..except..i lost control over my impulses..and kept calling him… insanely so.. yes.. cos i was worried..maybe cos he has a drink.. maybe cos he sounded low.. or maybe cos i just wanted him near me… anyways…. so i blew it…. period. Im trying to move on… yet a week later i find myself.. calling him and expressing how i feel about him.. and saying i will wait!!! shit!! did i really do that? yes i did. crap.. im in sucha mess… meanwhile… the other CD guys are calling… texting… and giving me more attention than ever.. but i cant help subconsciously thinking of smthing i cannot have… dont know where to go from here… but i feel like i really connect with this guy and we should give it a shot.. but problem is ..hes said.. if he feels like hes into me he will call me… not vice versa. Help!!!!

  348.  #348Rori Raye on July 10, 2013 at 10:52 am

    mayflower -Welcome – and the only thing for you to work on is yourself. You say here that you basically have no self-discipline, no impulse-control, do not have control over yourself in any way. You are behaving as a addicted “junkie” would behave by lunging for this man. Also, you have been habituated by your past to want what you can’t have and disregard what loves you. This is what CDing is for – to give you real-life experiences with real men to work through your “stuff” – to learn to appreciate and open up to ONLY men who want you, and to hang back and lean back at ALL times, and NEVER try to “make something happen” that isn’t already happening. We’ll help you. Please start with the ebook and work through ALL the basic Tools 24/7 – then move on to the other programs. Love, Rori