Strong, Independent, Smart, and Attracted to a Feminine Energy Man

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Here’s a letter from Deb – the circumstances may be different from yours – but I think push-and-pull and Deb’s emotional responses are pretty much what we all feel when we want something, but it’s not showing up the way we want it to show up:

“Hi Rori,
I have read your emails and yet I find myself in a situation that perplexes me. You see I have always set my boundaries, and always made the man pursue me, and don’t have problems attracting men until…

On New Year’s I went to a club and I met the promotional manager. Right I way I liked him; he was attractive, reserved, sweet, and seemed genuine – qualities I like. At the end of the night, he gave me his card and asked me to call him – twice. He seemed shy; not aggressive. I liked that, but I had my boundaries, and decided not to call him.

A month later I showed up there again, and he spent the entire night with me; he asked if I wanted kids, looked at me when I wasn’t, walked me to my car arm in arm – all the signs that you just feel when someone likes you and he was a gentleman too.
When he texted me a week later to come to the club again that sat night for his birthday, I smoothly replied and told him that I would try to make it, and I showed up later. BUT, to my surprise, he behaved the exact opposite of the week before – he literally ignored me; it was as if I didn’t exist.

At one point he told me he liked me and wanted to make out with me (he was drunk); I told him that I don’t do that in public, but that was the only time during the night that I saw him. At the end of the night when I was leaving, he finally approaches me. I was upset. He asked what was wrong and I said that last week he was a gentleman but that tonight he was a boy and I left. He did text me later and said, thanks for making this boy happy on his birthday. I never replied.

Two weeks passed, and my hormones were dominating. I texted him on the Saturday night that I was out (he works every Saturday) and I said it would be nice to see him after he finishes work (2am). He then asked me to call him later that night (2am) so we could meet when he was done work. I didn’t call him and just went home instead. But he called and said he wanted to come by and so he did and so we slept together. I noticed that he wouldn’t take initiative in that dept.I found it odd cuz I am used to a man being aggressive and into me in that dept.

The next morning he told me to call me and I said that he should, BUT 4 days later he didn’t call so I did. I wanted to meet him for coffee to tell him how I felt about him and find out what he was looking for so that I could know whether I should just move on. we met for coffee only when I showed up there were 2 other people there. Now he is 33 and his buddy’s younger sister and BF were there. When he left for the bathroom, she happened to tell me that he has such a good heart, but is sensitive, shy, holds things in, and that she has never seen him with a girl bcz she thinks that he was hurt in past. (He had mentioned that he hadn’t been in a relationship in about 8 years bcz his love left him for his bff cuz he had more money.)

During the course of the night, I felt like he liked me – the way his leg would brush mine, the way he would look at me. he offered to walk me 15 mins to the subway at end of night and seemed to wait for me to kiss him, but I did the cheek thing. 5 days later, I didn’t hear from him, so I called him, but he didn’t answer; I left him a text saying that I tried to call him and asked if I caught him at the wrong time – guess what – no reply, and it has been 2 days.
Ok, so why this long winded story. Well, I always have good intuition and I so felt that he was interested/attracted to me; just that feeling in your gut when you just know….but I guess I was wrong. Why was my intuition wrong? How do you know when it is right? That is what I want to know. I always have men pursuing me, checking me out, and this one guy shows no interest in an independent, intelligent woman who lives on her own and his her own career. Was he intimidated by me? or is it as simple as black or white – if he likes you he will pursue you… needed some insight… deb

Deb, here’s my answer:

It doesn’t matter.

It doesn’t matter – the “why” of what he does.

He just wasn’t doing much.

If you want a man who doesn’t do much…you found him.

You can chase him down and take his clothes off and have sex with him and call him and visit him like he’s a doll. He won’t resist you. He just doesn’t do much.

Your intuition led you to…what? It led you to a man who may feel a lot, but does nothing.

This is a feminine energy man. Nothing necessarily “bad” about him. Just…no rowing happening.

We women spend so much energy imagining a man can turn so drastically from a non-actor to an actor, from a non-rower to a rower without our having a meaningful, honest, heart-to-heart conversation with him.

What you describe here is all game playing…what you say and do (showing up late to the birthday party…asking if you called at the wrong time…when you KNOW you wanted to say a whole bunch of other things).

I’m SO thrilled you are starting to ask questions, and hope you’ll follow along with the Feeling Messages and authentic, speak-from-your-heart communication we’re working with here…it will change your love life and stop all your wondering…

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Tallgirl10 on July 9, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Well, this sounds like my text man to me.

    But, I don’t agree with Rori that if you have a conversation then he will do the rowing. You might have an honest conversation, which is always a good thing and learning to be authentic is always good.

    However, men show you what they want to do with their behavior. Talking about it does not change the behavior. So even if you have that authetic conversation, it is best to assume someone won’t change.

  2.  #2Tallgirl10 on July 9, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Yeah, the more I reread this the more I think that having a “heart to heart” is not what makes a man row. He will row if he wants to and is able.

    Men don’t do anything because of a conversation.

  3.  #3Tallgirl10 on July 9, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    But, with that said – we can control our behavior and not play games and be more authentic. I am working on that for sure!

  4.  #4Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I don’t think Rori meant that a convo will change him — just that it would clarify to US what he really is capable of so we can know what we’re dealing with — and give him an opportunity to step up IF he is able.

    I found this post so interesting and amusing! Almost delightful in a weird twisted way. Lol.

    This part SO feels like TN man! —

    “If you want a man who doesn’t do much…you found him. You can chase him down and take his clothes off and have sex with him and call him and visit him like he’s a doll. He won’t resist you. He just doesn’t do much.”

    I don’t feel anger at TN man when I read that — I feel happy and amused and affectionate — he’s a dear little boy in a grown man’s body — and I feel certain that what Rori said here is true: he would not reject or resist my love and affection.

    I do love him. But my best guess at this point is that he would not make a good partner for me. (Duh, right?!) (Btw, on vacation, my sis, who is an expert on asperger’s, told me that TN man’s behavior is ALL classic adult asperger’s behavior, period. Good to know, but like Rori says here, the reason doesn’t matter if you can’t accept the behavior. However, it helps my self esteem to understand that he didn’t reject me personally, and it was not a matter of him not wanting me.)

    Anyway, the other interesting thing about this post is that it also describes my ex-h. My issue there, though, is that my ex-h did NOT start out like that before we were married!!!! I guess he was/is a fem energy man who had “game” — and used it to get what he thought he wanted.

  5.  #5Lucy on July 9, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Hmmm. I always did love playing with dolls though….

    (“You can chase him down and take his clothes off and have sex with him and call him and visit him like he’s a doll. He won’t resist you. He just doesn’t do much.”)

    Maybe TN man can be my doll. Haha.

  6.  #6Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Of course I can’t help but think about Ryan when I read this entry because he had so much feminine energy. At first, Ryan came over saying he just wanted a friendship, and that he was looking for his soul mate. He just wanted to cuddle and talk, and I believed him at a friend level, since he was 15 yrs younger than me and said he preferred a younger woman than himself.

    So I had zero expectations, and I purely related to him like a big sister, suggesting places he could go to meet a woman, and talking openly about my dating history and what I’m looking for. Because he is a schizophrenic, his behavior was weird, and it also added up to him just wanting to be friends with an older sister type, because he stated he was lonely and his need was so great, describing how most women told him they felt freaked out by his odd behavior (inappropriate giggling and gesturing, and odd noises and eye movements).

    He called every few nights to come over at first, and after about two weeks, he called every night. I felt surprised, because I didn’t expect him to enjoy my company that much, being that I was older and overweight. I just kept expecting him to NOT call, and I didn’t even think of calling him. I was naturally leaned back.

    Then it gradually became clear he was seeing me as a possible soul mate, and my attraction grew as I saw him sometimes at his best (no weird behaviors) and sometimes at his most vulnerable, where I saw great beauty and tenderness.

    After our beautiful day at the shore, with 12 hours of almost nonstop conversation, and him saying, “It is such a miracle when two souls find each other in this huge world!”, I began to feel deep attraction.

    With that came the overfunctioning, needy behaviors Rori describes. I began to call him in anxiety, and more and more took the lead. He allowed me to, but at times he seemed resentful.

    I never quite put my whole analysis together, but I think if I had remained leaning back, as I was in the beginning, it would have gone much differently.

    I welcome any feedback or insights.

  7.  #7Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Oh, the other thing I meant to say is with few exceptions, he was also very leaned back when we cuddled in bed. He rarely initiated touching me. Most often, he would roll onto his belly and it was like a nonverbal invitation for me to either stroke his long hair or rub his back. He would say he was in deep psychological pain with the schizophrenia, so I went with it.

    He gave frequent and consistent mixed messages about going forward and back and also about leaning forward or back in our relationship. My best conclusion is that he was trying to establish mind control over me.

    I read about that, and it’s accomplished by creating traumatic experiences for the victim, that cause much pain and fear, and then repeatedly imposing that trauma on the victim. After a while, they can be controlled by pain and fear. That’s the only logical conclusion I could come up with for why anyone would lead a woman on to be totally in love and expecting a ring with liberal hints and then to say it was just a friendship.

    If I had submitted to his ongoing psychological and emotional abuse, he probably would have been very happy to lead me around by the nose while I thought everything was normal.

    But I stood against it and called him on it and when I said “mind control”, the look in his eyes was intense, as if he was shocked that he had been found out.

    Please excuse me if this stuff is deep for a relationship blog, but I hope you can see this is some deep pain and confusion and vulnerability I have been processing this past year. I don’t mean to freak anyone out or for you to think I’m nuts.

    I’m not nuts. He is, but there’s hope, and I pray every day for his freedom from this horrible condition.

  8.  #8tallgirl10 on July 9, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    Look at your two posts. One says if you had just leaned back it would have been different, and the other explains that he abused you.

    Which is it? Brutal truth time. You have a lot of work to do to heal from this.

    I know you want him healed, but most of the medical community does not think this is curable.

    But more importantly, what do you think would happen if it were curable? He would come back to you? Men almost never come back to the woman who was blindly there for them. They find someone new.

    My guess is even when you were “leaning back” you were actually overfunctioning. Does that trigger you are resonate? Not in that you asked him out, but that you were one of the only people who would be there for someone who has so many issues. So while you think you were leaning back, in fact, just being there was overfunctioning with someone who had severe issues. Healthy people do not do this.

    I am not saying that as a society, we should shun people who have these issues, but really think about if the level of support you gave him was over the top.

    Only you know the truth. And I know you are on your journey.

  9.  #9Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 3:50 pm


    I just have a different view of people who are down and out for whatever reason. In the beginning, no, I don’t consider myself to have overfunctioned. I consider myself to have reached out to someone who was in need. That is part of who I am, and that will never change.

    Down the line, after I had feelings for him and it became romantic, I overfunctioned by far. If I hadn’t, he still would have abused me. I am not saying it would have changed his abuse. I am just saying that the boy-girl dynamics would have gone differently without a doubt.

    Thanks for your feedback! I guess it is just too complex to really convey in black and white. I lived it, and probably no one but Ryan, me, and other schizophrenics who are now free (and yes, it IS curable!), could possibly understand in full.

  10.  #10Laughing goddess on July 9, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    I do believe that conversations can change a man’s behavior. From what I have experienced, men are influenced to act in a feminine or masculine way by our behavior. If we are taking on the masculine role by pursuing, leaning forward, directing, then a man will naturally shift to the feminine role. I see it as a natural law of physics…a balancing of the polarities. Of course some men are naturally more masculine energy than others but we all shift back and forth between masculine and feminine all the time. If we as women can occupy the feminine energy space of the relationship then the men have no choice to hold the masculine…unless of the are very feminine in which case we have to “outgirl” them.

    I do believe that a man will change in response to what we say, how we say it, and our behaviors. I’ve seem the phenomenon myself.

  11.  #11Laughing goddess on July 9, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I don’t feel confident that just one heart to heart convo will change a man’s behavior if the rest if the time we are playing games and holding the masculine energy role. I don’t get the sense that Rori was saying it would.

  12.  #12Apple Jacks on July 9, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    *Grumpy Smurf Hat* “I hate feminine energy men.”

    *Apple Jacks Hat back on* Feminine energy men…are NOT for me. 🙂

  13.  #13Rosalie on July 9, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Unfortunately, what I have experienced is that no feeling message changes anything in the relationship – I mean MY previous relationships. If the man is not interested in the woman, he is not interested in the feeling messages as well.

    This ignorant man is really doing nothing. I have tried so many feeling messages, I wish they had worked with that particular man… But these just made him angrier. He is so toxic. At the beginning he was also like this cute-innocent-but-doing-nothing-” Barbie doll- man” as in the one in the post. Situation was just geting worse as time was passing by.

    I was seriously ill for many times and he never even bothered/ cared, but trapped me into situations where he knew that I will be humiliated, beaten down and I will get sick&exhausted again. He was so ignorant, indifferent to me. And I was building my life on his indifference. Now, I don’t have job, money, I’m forced into bad circumstances and he is living in the comfy flat where he promised me to move in together. He is looking for the true love all day, online. The government supports him with great sums. So he is happy, lucky, lives well.

    Life sucks….

  14.  #14Jennifer on July 9, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    OOOOOO………..this sounds like B. I feel triggered.
    If I called him…went to him, took his clothes off, he wouldn’t resist me…but take any initiative? Fuggidaboutit.
    on a different note……….I’m a baaaaaadddd goddess again…
    I bought a designer dress and shrug for my money friend’s engagement party. $330 for real.
    The dress is a floaty, A line Empire waist mulitcoloured deal…with vertical panel skirt in colours of teal and peacock and fushia…it looks like an expressionist painting. The shrug is jersey knit black with rosettes around the neck and down around the back. Black Stilettos and clutch and I OWN this shit!! YEAH BABY!!!
    I was nervous about the price tag. For real. But then I was like “I’ll feel worse if I show up to this fancy shin dig lookin low brow. THAT would suck.”
    Any way….
    I paid off a credit card today with the extra work I’ve been getting so…I get a treat!

  15.  #15Daria on July 9, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    im really on another level with the freedom of not worrying about calling not calling men, etc, and guiding myself on my feelings

    i feel sad and longing a lot of times around GetRite man, who I am treating as friends.

    I have decided to bravely, REALLY treat him as friends, even tho we like each other…

    and so I have started flirting with his friends, who are really attractive.

    last nite i had a long convo with one of his friends,

    and today another one gave me some money for gas… and GetRite got mad, started calling me names on the phone and on text… i feel sad and disappointed

    i feel guilty talking to his friends and excited to meet them also

  16.  #16Brenda on July 9, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Hi Daria,

    Did you give him the no boyfriend speech?

  17.  #17joan on July 9, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    I feel happy to read this article. I feel curious to learn more of Rori’s/others’ insights on this particular aspect of relationships/marriage.

    Sometime in the past couple of weeks, another poster mentioned that Rori had written about how there can be workable relationships/marriages where the woman is more masculine energy and the man is more feminine energy. Since reading that remark, I went on a major expedition looking for the blog post to which that comment might have referred – think Indiana Joan – Reader of the Blog “Ark”ives,

    Although I found a few blogs on switching between our boy/girl hats and one on marriages where the woman makes more money than the man, they still didn’t seem to contain the info I expected based on that other comment. Imagine my surprise when I got the email notice regarding this blog post!

    Meanwhile, I am still wondering whether the referenced writing had been an eletter rather than a blog post and that it had been issued before I started receiving any of Rori’s emails. Can anyone help me on that – was there also an earlier eletter on this subject? (I wish I could remember who made that original comment that sparked my search, but my mind is saturated right now with all* that I have been reading.)


    *Of course, I couldn’t read just the blog posts! I also read the comments, and that’s a time-intensive endeavor, since there was always the possibility that it had been something that Rori had written in a comment. Plus, there are too many gems to be mined from the Sirens’ comments to risk not reading them. 🙂

  18.  #18Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Brenda – I think I have I don’t know that he’s heard me tho, either way , he was rubbing it in my face yesterday

    him: you just want me to treat you as my girl {and i’m not}

    me: shuttup I don’t care about you boy – [oops i was drunk (not very vulnerable here rite) but it came out cool and then the friend was attracted ]

    i must admit i started the lil argument

    he calls it “trickin” when guys spend money on me, and get me tacos… but then he gets mad when his friend rides with me to get gas — i feel weird and punishing… like that’s what you get for not giving me gas yourself, other men will

    but my guess is he misses that point


    i feel icky about this, i don’t like feeling this way, i don’t like feeling ignored or treated less than a lady, and i don’t want to have to ask for it

    he recently confessed to him that all his girlfriends complained to him that hes didnt pay them enuf attention – thot it was just me

    hearing that felt kinda good and kinda bad.. i feel scared and a lil sad

  19.  #19Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    and Happy. I feel excited nervous and happy!

  20.  #20Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    joan – sorry to disappoint, but i think Rori mostly writes about how to switch energy to the woman being more feminine…

    most of us women, my guess, no matter how firy and independent, wnat a Strong man, and to be told we’re beautiful (desirable etc, what not)

    so even if we start masculine what we really want is to be feminine, we start feeling frustrated when the relationshpi progresses and he doesnt fully take the masculine role – even when we are VERY masculine

    I see this with some of my masculine energy gf’s as well… when they start being into a guy, they start wanting him to be the masculine

  21.  #21joan on July 9, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Thanks for your reply, Daria. I do understand what you are saying, and I don’t disagree.

    Nevertheless, I still want to read more examples of how a man might behave/express through feminine energy. For me, it’s a matter of gathering information that could help me identify similar situations in real life. If I can learn something that helps me to not take someone else’s behavior so personally, then that would be beneficial to me.

  22.  #22Daria on July 9, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Joan – oh i see, you want examples of feminine energy in a man.

    mmm.. maybe I could videotape my time lately with Getrite man :p

    hmm… they’re all over the place, mostly stuff like,

    call me, how come you dont call me, where are you gonna take me, come kidnap me (yes i got this from a man before)

    not calling making plans, ohhh

    i remember a good one…

    Question to ask yourself: do I feel like i’m being given to (energy wise) right now? or do i feel like he wants to get somethign from me (feminine energy in man interaction)?

  23.  #23joan on July 10, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Thanks, Daria. I’ll take some time to mull over that last question you posed in relation to what I’m seeking to learn. Right now, though, it’s after 3am here, and my brain is getting a little muddy.

  24.  #24Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 2:03 am

    Joan, I not 100% sure about this but I seem to remember her mentioning this at the beginning of her e-book. She says that we need to decide if we want to be the feminine energy or the masculine. She does say it is possible for a woman to hold the masculine space as long as this is what she chooses. It’s totally possible as long as she’s okay with being with a feminine man and the experiences that come with that.

    As I said, I think this is in the beginning of the ebook but I have a feeling I might be also thinking of the beginning of Bob Grants ebook as well.

    Hope this helps.

  25.  #25tallgirl10 on July 10, 2010 at 6:36 am

    My point was not that men don’t change over conversations. It is that you should not waste them on men who don’t care.

    If two people are in an interaction and it is clear that both are investing, then by all means, have a heart to heart. But, if the man is lukewarm, unwilling or unable. That is the way it is. Period.

    Then using conversations and feeling messages is actually a form or overfunctioning and control. Again, look at inner bonding.

    Heart to hearts should be to share info, not tell. I know there are times when I am having a convo with anyone where really what I want is to control.

    In the post, this man is not rowing, he is barely in the boat. If a man is not in the boat, no convo will help, and the woman looks weak and desperate.

    When a man does not call after sex, it is because he does not want to. Period. It is not a time to chase, or have a “heart to heart”.

    I don’t think we should use these boards as a way to explain away crap behavior, and Rori would say to let that river dry up. Or dam the darn thing up if you want to. I did, and I am better off.

  26.  #26joan on July 10, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Thanks, LG, for the additional info. I don’t have the ebook (yet) due to financial issues and more pressing priorities such as mortgage, utilities, food, etc.

    Essentially, I’m just trying to learn more about how feminine energy would express itself in a man’s actions/behavior (or lack therof). It’s not something I ever really thought much about previously.

    Before I started reading here, if you had asked me to describe feminine energy in a man, I would have responded by describing the stereotypical “sensitive” guy – y’know, the artistic type who writes poetry or music, that sort of thing. But, in Rori terms, it doesn’t necessarily seem to be about those kinds of things. So, now, I’m trying to learn a new definition of the concept, and since I’m generally a visual learner, I’m interested in finding examples of what it would “look like”.

  27.  #27tallgirl10 on July 10, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Ladies! I wanted you to know this is my last post for a while. I go through phases when I need to focus on myself and spend no time thinking about men, unless they are literally in front of me.

    When I spend time on these boards, I see lots of wonderful women, and I praise all of you for doing all the work you want and need to do.

    For me only, spending time on these boards is a way to numb myself and take up time that is better spent find out what I love to do and being active. Getting reconnected to me.

    I have no idea if I will find someone, but like I said, for me only, spending all this mental energy on men and how to deal with them takes me to a negative place.

    That said, I value you all, and I am so happy and lucky to have a place to think through life.

    I wish you all well, and good luck! Keep on the tools!

  28.  #28Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 7:14 am


    We will miss you! Thank you for all you have contributed! Keep your head up!

  29.  #29Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Indiana Joan,

    This was classic: “– think Indiana Joan – Reader of the Blog “Ark”ives”!!!!!

    Love it! Here’s a scenario of when I was trying to shift to more feminine energy with Ryan. I had started out way overfunctioning with him. I started listening to Rori’s CDs last April. Last June, I was taking a day trip to New York City with Ryan, and I had myself primed on Rori’s tools. She said be silent, let the man make the decisions and the first moves, and that sort of thing.

    We had about 3 hours free between two meetings we were attending at a hotel. I used to have little awareness of boy-girl dynamics due to a void in my past with human interactions. As we left the meeting, Ryan looked at me, saying, “What do you want to do?”

    I hadn’t eaten since breakfast and it was 4 pm, so I simply stated my feelings, “I feel hungry.” I stood looking at him (in the past I would have been leading the way to a restaurant).

    He stood looking at me, “So where do you want to go?”

    I said, “I don’t know. I feel really hungry though.” I stood looking at him, waiting for him to make a decision. I understood his probable momentary confusion, since I was shifting my behavior. Finally he led the way to a restaurant.

    When we were finished at the restaurant, he started again, “What do you want to do?”

    I stood looking at him, “I don’t know, what do you want to do?”

    He said, “I’m tired.” (We had gotten up really early)

    I said, “Would you like to find a sofa somewhere and sleep?”

    He said, “No.” He stood looking at me.

    I stood looking at him.

    He said, “What do you want to do?”

    I said, “Whatever you would like to do. It would feel good to see some of the sights while we’re here.” He looked like he expected me to start walking, which I would have done in the past, but I continued to stand looking at him.

    He said, “Well, I guess we should see if the hotel has a local map.” I followed him to the desk, and when the clerk offered him a street map, she offered me one too. It was totally against my usual self to smile and say, “No thanks!” That felt like a Siren victory for me! (Upon reflection, I realized in the past I felt insecure with my family’s leading, and I wanted to be in control of any situation).

    Ryan cracked a big smile that he saw I was clearly letting him lead! He walked out and down the street, and I let him do the leading with the map! Even when he got lost a couple times, I just stood quietly while HE studied the map (in the past I would have asked for it and offered my opinion of which way we should go). It felt really good to make the shift to being more feminine! Baby steps, right, Rori? 🙂

  30.  #30Jennifer on July 10, 2010 at 7:29 am

    more triggers. Hello triggers. Welcome. C’mon in…let’s have a little chat about how you are going to stop bothering me.
    I got an email from said I have email. I’m excited cause I updated my pics there with the two new ones.
    But, since they don’t get my money…the won’t let me check my mail.
    And I creeped B on facebook…he looks like shit. I guess life is tough if you have to actually clean up after yourself and cook for yourself and have no personal cheering section.
    And I creeped another old BF…he has two kids. And married a curvy woman…I left him cause he was convinced that overwieght people are lazy..and said so in front of several of them that are friends of mine…so bye bye..I guess it’s odd how things turn out.
    I want to clear this trigger of “there is no one out there for me.” But right now it just feels like work to do so and I’ve just finished 5 night shifts so I feel really lazy.
    Since I did the “more responsible thing” and paid off a credit card..I feel more comfortable spending $600 to see the core belief lady.
    So I’ll look into that.

  31.  #31Sherry on July 10, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Joan, to me a man who is in feminine energy is not so much about seeing as it is feeling. I know I feel confused and unsure when I receive this kind of energy.

    Some examples I’ve encountered are a man will give me his number and expect me to call him. When I don’t he will ask why and I will tell him I don’t call men and then he will say something about how he doesn’t want to call at the wrong time, or any number of excuses to try to get me to be the one to initiate things. He will email me after a couple of days and say something like why haven’t I heard from you. I will tell him because he hasn’t emailed me! Or, my favorite lol, is when he is always saying we should get together sometime but never really asks me out! I respond, yes we should, but it never happens because I won’t take the initive.

    It could be as simple as you having to be the one to make decisions.. where to go, where to eat, when to call, when to kiss, etc. Basically any time you feel like saying “I wish you would just grow a pair!” a man is being in his feminine energy 🙂

  32.  #32joan on July 10, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Tallgirl – you wrote:

    Then using conversations and feeling messages is actually a form [of] overfunctioning and control.

    Thank you. There have been times when I’ve wondered about this as well – that using Feeling Messages could be an attempt at manipulation or could even border on “emotional abuse” with a man who is extremely triggered by them.

    When I first started writing here, I stated that I wanted to learn tools other than Feeling Messages – things that I could use to work on myself. It’s not that hubby is lukewarm, unwilling or unable, but there is some kind of intense triggering that occurs when hubby hears the words, “I feel”.

    If I had written that my man had an intense trigger around the words “chocolate pudding”, then nobody would have insisted that I keep verbally pelting him with phrases that said, “chocolate pudding this, chocolate pudding that, chocolate pudding yada yada yada … “. Clearly, to do so would be considered intentional verbal/emotional abuse.

    Yet, when I wrote that my experience with using the particular words “I feel” have that very trigger effect on hubby, I was still “encouraged” to use Feeling Messages with him. So, in effect, I’m supposed to just keep “pelting” him until he succumbs. Why? Because he’s a man and he can take it? To me, male/female is irrelevant and abuse is abuse whether the trigger phrase is “chocolate pudding” or “I feel”.

    In this instance, I can only live by the Golden Rule. I would want to be respected enough to not be intentionally triggered, especially by someone who loves me. So, in all good conscience, I cannot go about “verbally waterboarding” him with Feeling Messages. The end does not justify the means.

  33.  #33Simply Shannon on July 10, 2010 at 8:44 am

    Joan: The problem with that logic is the assumption that just because the waters look calm on the surface that all is well underneath. I’d rather have visible rage than hidden fury. I’d rather have visible triggers than quiet misery.

  34.  #34Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Hi Indiana Joan,

    When I first heard that your husband is repelled by feeling statements, that told me that the inner, soft core of him has been largely shut down. “I feel” triggers him…to what? To bad memories? To go to a place he was taught is not allowed? I feel amused by your comparison to chocolate pudding, and it makes me hungry, too! I see what you’re saying, and if it’s that big of a trigger, I can see your reasoning in backing off from it. Do you think he needs inner healing? What would help him safely open his inner core?

    I see feeling messages as a most tactful way to communicate on relational issues that are often very delicate. I have grappled all my life with HOW to say things, because I was raised with extreme yelling and criticism. I can swear with the best of the drunken sailors! I can scream louder than you!

    But I have been learning feeling messages as a means of TACTFULLY, LOVINGLY communicating what I have a RIGHT to communicate, my inner self. My inner self was stomped on and locked up so deep inside I didn’t even know who I was or what I thought or felt when I emerged into adulthood. I had no right to state my thoughts and feelings growing up.

    When I was 25, I was talking to a counselor about how to interact with my first boyfriend (yes, at that late age). He said, “Just be yourself!”

    I said, “I don’t know who I am.” I would look in the mirror and when I looked into my eyes, I saw cloudiness there. I tried to study myself in order to figure out who I was. I knew I wasn’t my appearance. I knew I wasn’t my deeply-bottled, repressed anger. It has taken me two decades to figure out who I am, and that I have a right to express who I am.

    Now I am 46, and I LOVE feeling messages. Not only do I get to be myself, and know how I feel and what I think inside, but I get to express it.

    Beyond that, I believe a large purpose of feeling messages is to gently, kindly set my personal boundaries. I don’t call that manipulation. I call that taking care of myself.

    For example, I’ve been emailing and talking on the phone with a cop, a new CD man. I have given him at least 5 feeling messages that I don’t want to go straight to a sexual level, but I want to get to know a man on all levels first. He has ignored my feeling messages, and last night he asked me if I like dirty movies. So finally last night on the phone I said I feel disrespected. He said, “Relax! Why do you feel disrespected??”

    I said, “I have very politely set my boundaries, and I feel unheard. When I feel disrespected, I feel guarded.”

    He said, “Well you don’t need to feel guarded with me.” Shortly thereafter, he got off the phone.

    I may have made him uncomfortable with my feeling messages, and I did. But I was protecting myself from a man who was apparently looking for booty call. I make no apology for that.

  35.  #35Jennifer on July 10, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Curiouser and Curiouser…Judo instructor just friended me on facebook.

  36.  #36Jilly on July 10, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Joan…I feel uncomfortable and yucky to hear that you are applying the “golden rule”…that doesn’t sound like “golden rule” to me at all. Sharing and expressing how or what YOU “feel” is not about him.

    I wish I had some good suggestions though…

    Rori says that we have the answers we are looking for…hypothetically….if you KNEW the answer what would it be??

    I agree with SS about the calm waters on top and not necessarily at the bottom.

  37.  #37Jilly on July 10, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Ladies….I am stuck home today with Poison Ivy!!! Can you believe it!!

    Very interesting Jennifer…..

    Brenda….you’re comments sound very healthy 😉

  38.  #38Jilly on July 10, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Brenda…I meant to say…your comments “feel” very healthy to me 😉

  39.  #39Jilly on July 10, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Joan..I want to give an example…and I want you to know I am on your side…but it’s kind of like your chocolate pudding example…

    What if you found this amazing yummy very healthy drink that nourishes your body…and you knew that your body needed it and loved it and you realized that you were FEELING better and better just from drinking it…BUT…everytime YOU drank it…IT triggered your husband

    so you stop drinking it because of the “golden rule”??

    If you are getting healthier…then EVERYONE benefits!

  40.  #40Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I feel sad reading that goddesses think heart to heart conversations and feeling messages don’t work. For me, the difference is in the intention behind the actions of using them. If we express ourselves in this way simply to open our hearts and share a deep part of ourselves then it is not a form of control but if we do it with the intention of changing the other person then it is.

    For me, feeling messages are a way of taking responsibility for ourselves and not blaming. It’s not really about using the words “I feel”. It’s about focusing on our own reactions versus what the person did. From my experience, it’s about the energy behind the words vs. the actual words used. It’s about strengthening our connection with ourselves vs changing a person. The ironic thing is often people do change the way they treat us but that’s not our main intention…our main intention is to get out of our heads and into our hearts and our feelings. We do this for ourselves, not to change someone else.

    Anyways, I feel unsure if I am articulating this in a way that makes sense. The main thing I’m wanting to express is that I feel solid in the belief that it’s the intention behind the words that makes the difference and not just the words.

  41.  #41Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 10:01 am

    I guess all I can really rely on is my own experience and my intuition and I will say that having heart to hearts and using feeling messages has transformed my relationships.

    And I feel so good and thankful for that. And I feel sad when I read people here saying “this won’t work!” because it has worked for me. I feel sad when I read women coming for help but not being open to the approach Rori recommends. I feel sad when it seems like people are focusing on one aspect of the work and picking it apart rather than looking at the big picture.

    Yes, I agree one conversation is not going to change a man who is not into us and it’s useless to try and do that. But that isn’t what Rori recommends at all. She says to NOT fixate on one man, to focus on ourselves, etc etc. So if we are doing that, then we wouldn’t be in the place of feeling the need to control. We would be so in to our own lives and focused on our own feelings, it wouldn’t even be an issue.

    If a woman here was feeling stuck and not trusting the tools and not seeing them work for her and asked me for help, I would say try to understand this tool you are convinced won’t work within the big picture of what Rori is teaching and then it may make more sense.

  42.  #42Jilly on July 10, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Yes Laughing Goddess 🙂 You said what I was trying to say lol I like metaphors 😉

  43.  #43Rori Raye on July 10, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Laughing Goddess, thank you for this wonderful comment – so helpful and insightful and compact…Love, Rori

  44.  #44Rori Raye on July 10, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Laughing Goddess – just found this one….What the words do is help you change the intention – and vice-versa. We are so blind sometimes to the way to talk to people – how we use defending language, and in subtle ways try to undermine them and make them wrong and make them feel bad so we can up our own standing. This is totally natural to most of us. By focusing on the words, you can become more aware – and that’s the point – and then by focusing on the intention to be all about LOVE, and trusting that you are loved – by you, most of all – the words take on this new, lovely energy and vibe. It works from the outside in and the inside out…so that we can use the whole range of our natural gifts for insight and awareness and power and courage… Love, Rori

  45.  #45Rori Raye on July 10, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Brenda, so beautiful – thank you so much for this comment…Love, Rori

  46.  #46joan on July 10, 2010 at 10:29 am

    I guess the problem is that many of the examples just don’t matter to me. I truly don’t care who decides where we eat as long as we eat.

    However, I’ll use Brenda’s earlier examples:

    — If I hadn’t eaten all day and it was 4pm, then low blood sugar and the need for FOOD NOW would preclude me being able to withstand rounds of, “Where do you want to eat?” “I don’t know, where do you want to eat?” Physical hunger would have compelled me to simply find someplace to eat. He could lead, follow, or just get the h*ll out of the way at that point. Low blood sugar has its own agenda.

    — Regarding getting lost, I would have to take the map at some point. When he reaches a certain level of frustration, he becomes essentially non-functional. He would have just as likely ripped the map up in frustration as continue to try to figure out where we were. (After all, it was the map’s fault we were lost!) Whatever immediate visceral release he might have gotten from tearing up the map would not have helped us find our way.

    I’ve read some other recent posts that indicate that I’m not the only one who is having “issues” around Feeling Messages. I wish I knew what it is that is triggered in him by the words, “I feel”. If I had to guess, I’d imagine layers upon layers of frustration – like one giant rotten onion. But, I’m neither qualified to diagnose him, nor do I have the professional training/experience to deal with what might be unleashed if I persist on following the Feeling Messages path. I have often seen his “visible rage”, and it is disconcerting.

    I wish I knew what it is that is triggering me right now. I feel resistant.

  47.  #47sofie on July 10, 2010 at 10:34 am

    A man will expend the least amount of effort required to maintain the status quo.

    This is not the same thing as becoming lazy over time in a relationship, taking or being taken for “granite” (sorry; couldn’t resist this little malapropism!).

    This is about our Level of Difficulty which Rori so often expounds upon. The LCD of LOD is boundary setting. If it’s not done early in, well …. you know how it goes.

    There have to be boundaries — with work, play, children, in-laws, friends, neighbors and, most especially, lovers. It’s not the setting of these which is so difficult …. it’s having to defend them into perpetuity which bores and tires me.

    Lines are lines over which we do not cross (mostly) and shouldn’t have to be justified, rationalised and rewon into tedious redundum.

    If they love us, they should automatically respect our boundaries, right? Well, let’s have another look in that mirror. Breaches are not always conscious; they are sometimes a single-minded beeline to each getting what we want or need. This is true in all the natural world.

    I have seen serious and seriously humourous posts around The Island referencing dog training regarding men. It makes me wince, yet at the same time smile at the wisdom of it. Set boundaries, reinforce only the good behaviour, increase the level of difficulty for petting, playtime and treats.

    Voila! Boymen 101 for dummies. (That would be me.)

  48.  #48Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Hi Rori:

    I feel good reading your clarification that the words do make a difference in the sense that they help us to see the subtle communications we are expressing and help us understand our intentions. That makes sense to me.

  49.  #49Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Thanks Jilly! I felt appreciative reading your metaphor!!!

  50.  #50gina on July 10, 2010 at 10:44 am

    I feel a little guilty today. I love my guilt. Yesterday, D treated me to an amazing day. During an 8 course meal prepared specially for us by his chef friend, we talked about weed – I haven’t smoked in several days because I was aware that I was smoking way too often for a few weeks. weed is sort of a weakness for me. I could sit in my window sill, getting high and really be pretty friggin happy for hours. I also really really love to have sex when I’m high. He noticed that when I stopped smoking a few days ago, we haven’t had sex since. And I said something about how sex is just “meh” to me unless I’m high. So not nice of me to say. He was talking to me about spending forever together while treating me to an amazing and very expensive meal, and I told him basically that I’m indifferent about sex. And it isn’t even true. I’m not sure how much weed has to do with the recent decline in my interest in sex. We did have plenty of sex when I wasn’t high. Although, when I have weed in my possession, then it’s like my lifestyle feels fun and carefree, and I’m more likely to want to have sex, even when I’m not actually high. But there are other things about sex that I don’t like….I don’t like how my hair gets all knotted up when we do it, I don’t like the messiness of it, and I feel turned off by his belly. Plus, I just didn’t happen to feel very hot for the past few days – hotness comes and goes, so it may not even be worth trying to figure out. But by saying what I did, I feel like I was resisting something – maybe the pressure to have sex with him last night after the great day he gave me? At the end of the night, he had left something in his car, and while he went to get it, I rushed to get in bed to go to sleep before sex could become inevitable. More guilt. I love my guilt. He definitely noticed cause I heard him saying “you gotta be kidding me…” when he saw me in bed. I giggled mischievously and fell asleep. This morning we had sex, and then I brought up the conversation. I said that I feel very bad for saying what I did and that it isn’t true – that I do enjoy sex with him. He said that he did feel a little offended, he didn’t know how to take it. I apologized and he assured me that we’re okay now. guilty guilty guilty and sad that I made him feel bad. sigh. tears burning. I love my guilt and sadness.
    One reason I didn’t feel like having sex last nigh is that we had SUCH a gluttonous day. We ate and drank from about 2pm to 2am. And on the way home, he wanted to stop for fast food!! I felt stuffed, unsexy and turned off. I feel good that he and I are going on a diet together. He wants to lose 25 pounds by October, which is when he’s moving in with me, and when we are supposed to go on Vacation. My goal is to be able to fit into 2 dresses that I discovered yesterday my boobs won’t fit into. My libido is kicking in just thinking about hotter, fitter versions of ourselves doing it in a few months.

  51.  #51Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Joan: When I read that you feel resistant, I felt very respectful of you for acknowledging that.

    Also when I read your above post about your husband’s anger, I had the thought that maybe some of Rori’s other tools would help in those situations too. The “walk away” came to mind, and “falling to the floor”, and “painting yourself in love”.

    If I was in your situation, I would focus on practicing feeling messages here and in my journal until I got really good at them and they felt natural. I would be sure that I am truly being non-blaming and taking responsibility for my own triggers. I would also focus on using other tools and understanding the big picture of Rori’s work.

    I heard you say that you can’t afford Rori’s products right now. I feel wishful that I could help with that. I highly recommend the ebook and it is only $20 I believe.

  52.  #52Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Gina: Ive noticed that my level of desire comes and goes with my cycle. When I am ovulating, I feel super horny. When I am bleeding, not so much. And it varies at other times. My LI has noticed that we go through cycles of sex. We’ll be hot and heavy for a few days and then take a few days off. At first he felt weird about that but he was just saying yesterday that he appreciates it now because even when we are in a low cycle, he knows that in a few days it will change. He said that he has grown to appreciate the slow times because it gives our sexual energy a chance to build.

    If I were you, I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself. This sounds like a great topic to connect over. I feel trusting that he would understand if you explained that you didn’t feel turned on because you felt so full. I feel trusting that as long as you reassured him that you do feel attracted to HIM and not just because of the weed, he would understand your ever-changing libido.

    I feel really excited that this might be a great opportunity to bring you even closer.

  53.  #53Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I went to an authentic relating class and I felt intrigued by their structure for expressing feeling messages and I wanted to share it here.

    The basic structure is…

    Right now I’m noticing…
    And I feel…
    Because I am imagining…

    An example

    “I am noticing that you didn’t call me when you said you would and I feel bad about that. I imagining it’s because you aren’t really in to me.”

    And I would add “what do you think?”

    I especially love the “and I’m imagining part” because by saying that I’m acknowledging that I am guessing what the behavior means and then giving the other person a chance to respond and let me know if what I am imagining is actually true for them.

    I feel excited to incorporate this into my toolbox.

  54.  #54Orna Walters on July 10, 2010 at 11:33 am

    The authentic conversation is an INVITATION for the man to either meet us at that level, or not. What we discover from this is if he’s ABLE to meet us at that high level.

    If he can, great. If not, move on.

    When both parties communicate authentically MAGIC HAPPENS. We don’t even have to “agree” – simply by both being authentic we have created true intimacy – and that is the thing our soul truly desires.

  55.  #55joan on July 10, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Thanks, LG. I do “walk away” a lot. I learned a long time ago not to “reward” the bad behavior. Long before I had ever heard of the term, “overfunctioning”, I had stopped asking “What’s wrong?” every time he flew into one of his tirades. If I’m not in the same room as he, then I don’t go to him when I hear him. If I am nearby, I go somewhere else. I just get tired of some of the collateral damage of things because of his impatience or frustration (à la the above-referenced example of the map).

    Sadly, it’s true, I can’t even afford $20 right now. I’m unemployed and so is hubby – maybe it is this intense amount of time in the same space that is “pushing” me here. There isn’t money to go and do things in between job searching. Oddly enough, even though sex is free, we don’t “do” that either, and that’s another MAJOR source of my angst. The patterns have always been there, but they’re being magnified now.

    While I am not ready/willing to risk Feeling Messages with hubby at this time, I’m not averse to Feeling Messages as a whole. In fact, I have made a point to practice them in sessions with my therapist – a man with training in how to handle them!

    When I said “I feel resistant”, it was coming from somewhere else – something about this whole process, in general. It feels like something I’ll have to explore separately.

  56.  #56gina on July 10, 2010 at 11:56 am

    LG, thanks for your input – I feel reassured. I just went to lunch with him, and everything feels really good. I really like your new tool! Thanks for sharing!!

  57.  #57Wonder Woman on July 10, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I had to double check this because Rori could have been writing about me and Limbo man. Although we haven’t had sex everything else resonated so much with me which is made funnier because earlier today I had the most authentic and honest conversation I think I have ever had with him.

    It was everything I wanted to say in the “closure” email that the sirens here convinced me not to send and dealt with all the things that were annoying me but that I hadn’t expressed.

    So I got a little excited about that and then I come on here and this brings me right back down to earth …..yes I found a man as long as I am happy to row….which really I am not……but still I feel really good about the conversation we had.

    I basically communicated that I would prefer to talk than IM, the issue of meeting directly and we even went on to talk about the issue that scares me the most which is that he would still have to get tested before we had sex and I was pretty impressed with his honesty about that (he said it’s not that he doesn’t want to but he is busy with work but things should be better soon) although I only mentioned it once ages ago……and I don’t feel any pressure to have sex with him at all when I am with him despite the fact we have engaged in sexual conversations.

    So I’m not convincing myself this will change him but I feel like I had some amazing practice with the tools. 🙂

  58.  #58Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    I feel really appreciative of the way you expressed your post. It feels good to me to focus on being more authentic and express myself in the highest way I am able and give a man a chance to meet me at that level and if he can’t be okay with letting him go. No matter what happens, I will know that I did my best and trust that I will attract a man that can meet me at that level.

    Joan: I feel curious how Oma’s post felt to you. I’m wondering if leaving your husband is an option?

    Also, I have been wanting to trim down my library. I have lots and lots of relationship and inspirational hard copy books. It would feel good to pass them on to someone who would appreciate them. Lemme know if you are interested.

  59.  #59Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Meant to say I really felt appreciative of Oma’s post.

  60.  #60Laughing goddess on July 10, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    I feel unsatisfied with what I said earlier that it’s not about the words but about the intention because I do value the importance of the words and I do believe they matter. I feel better saying that it not JUST about the words, it’s also the energy or intention behind them. Thanks for pointing that out Rori.

    Wow I feel amazed and intrigued by language and how powerful words are. Learning to express myself in a clear, responsible way feels almost like learning another language. I feel conditioned to respond or speak in a certain way. I feel exhilarated learning a new skill.

  61.  #61dorothea on July 10, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    gosh, i had the goddessiest day today, wearing a beautiful purple dress and getting compliments left and right, and attention and men asking for my number.

  62.  #62Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Indiana Joan,

    Let me respond to your responses…

    Joan: “– If I hadn’t eaten all day and it was 4pm, then low blood sugar and the need for FOOD NOW would preclude me being able to withstand rounds of, “Where do you want to eat?” “I don’t know, where do you want to eat?” Physical hunger would have compelled me to simply find someplace to eat. He could lead, follow, or just get the h*ll out of the way at that point. Low blood sugar has its own agenda.”

    That particular day was pivotal in my relational vibe with Ryan. I was in the process of shifting myself from masculine to feminine energy. Naturally, it created a vacuum. He was USED to me taking the lead. To me, relationships are more important than anything else on earth: things, schedules, money, even hunger! I was giving him a moment to catch on to being sensitive to me while still taking the lead.

    Joan: “– Regarding getting lost, I would have to take the map at some point. When he reaches a certain level of frustration, he becomes essentially non-functional. He would have just as likely ripped the map up in frustration as continue to try to figure out where we were. (After all, it was the map’s fault we were lost!) Whatever immediate visceral release he might have gotten from tearing up the map would not have helped us find our way.”

    Now my impression is confirmed: your husband has undealt with anger to the point of rage inside. He tries to bottle it up, but it explodes in immature ways like ripping up maps. Are you enabling him to maintain his unhealthy emotional state by taking the lead when he becomes so rageful that he can’t function?

    That would be a moment when you could put the health of the relationship and each other ahead of finding your way. In the long term, isn’t your relationship more important?

    You could just remain peacefully leaned back and silent. Let him rant and rave all he wants, rip the map, stomp and drool, whatever he wants! Just let him work it out. If it were me, I might say, “You seem angry,” in a soft voice.

    He’ll likely turn his anger on you, “YES, I AM ANGRY!” and so on…just let him vent, as long as he doesn’t become abusive. If you won’t have your head removed, you might softly ask, “Why do you feel so angry?”

    He’s waaaay overreacting. And that’s because he is not well emotionally. And that is why he is repelled by feeling messages. He can’t handle going there, to those scary, murky, unseen inner places that are festering inside him.

    Like you said, “If I had to guess, I’d imagine layers upon layers of frustration – like one giant rotten onion.”

    I have also seen visible rage, many times, on a daily basis, growing up. Visible rage can be very controlling, and I used to let it control me. My self-talk was, “I’ll do anything you want! Just don’t yell at me!” But after an entire childhood of being brow beaten, I concluded nothing I could do or not do would stop the steady diet of anger blasts.

    So I started getting creative with how I dealt with it. I don’t necessarily recommend what I did, and it is not what I learned from Rori, but here are ways I have dealt with anger:

    “Oooh, someone’s overreacting!”
    “Wow, someone’s got an anger issue!”
    “I’m not willing to be controlled by your anger.”

    I think Rori would recommend to just walk out, so you aren’t being emotionally abused. I have become so accustomed to dealing with anger that I can look an angry person in the face and not let it intimidate me. I have even been known to laugh at them, as a means of letting them know I’m not scared, and that gets them really angry. But these days, I am finding the walkout tool to be so much more effective and productive!

    Joan: “I wish I knew what it is that is triggering me right now. I feel resistant.”

    Do you fear his anger?

  63.  #63Brenda on July 10, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Here’s an update on the men in my life…

    Cop copped out. Must be he wants booty call. His loss.

    I had a meltdown last night after saying my closure speech to Ryan. Long story short, he texted me, “I can’t help you right now. My situation is severe. I need to be left alone to deal with this.”

    So I let him know I am praying for him and encouraged him to seek help from the man I know who defeated schizophrenia. I feel peace as far as our relationship because his statement tells me he is away from me because of schizophrenia, not because of another woman, and not because of me.

    I have had a major breakthrough in my relationship with Kenny, my exhusband! I gave him feeling messages a couple weeks ago, and he mailed it back with nasty comments written on it. I used the walk out tool by telling him I was not going to contact him for a while, etc.

    He is still in love with me, and he took it far harder than I intended for him to or expected him to. He thought I was ending the relationship. So he really became sad, and last week I made up with him, because he apologized and really did all he could to make things right.

    We are sharing at a deeper level than every before, and I am feeling like my deep truth is being actually heard and responded to for the first time! I feel really excited about the fresh start in this 10 year relationship! And I have Rori to thank!

  64.  #64wilderessence on July 10, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Just saying hello to all you beautiful creatures!
    Right now I’m just noticing how exciting this site is and I’m feeling so felt here! Aaahhhhh! Thank you all!

  65.  #65joan on July 10, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks, LG & Brenda for your responses.

    Leaving is not an option; it’s not even a desire. I don’t want to paint him as some total brute. I don’t like being around angry people, but I’m not afraid of his anger. In the early years, I used to “fight fire with fire”, but that didn’t help either. “Walking/staying away” has seemed to be the better option.

    My concerns regarding using the Feeling Messages with hubby have led to these discussions of hubby’s anger. However, my original purpose for checking out Rori’s info was not to figure out how to deal with hubby’s anger.

    I wanted to find tools to bring the sex back into our marriage – and I do mean SEX, not affection. Hubby has no problem with kissing, hugging, hand-holding, etc., but he just has little/no sex drive. That’s why I have been more curious about the feminine energetic expressions in men – i.e., whether withdrawing from sex is one of them.

    On my side, I have trouble remaining open to affection when sex is not happening. That’s why I was focusing on the Soft Shoulders or Dance Position tools to try to develop the physical openness first so that it could then transmute into emotional openness. (Sort of like “chasing the pain” physically with EFT to get to the emotional root.)

    Anyway, my resistance is a result of being unable to feel even a glimmer of hope that any of these tools will improve the sexual situation. If I could ever get past this state of “perpetual perimenopause”, then maybe my sex drive would just dry up, too, and it would no longer be an issue. 🙁

    = = = = =

    LG, I feel grateful for your offer regarding books from your library. I have amassed a pretty good collection over the years as well. I feel curious as to which titles you are planning to “trim”.

  66.  #66Ankita on July 10, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    I wanna ask you all a question. Please give me your opinions.
    What do you think is a great place for first date? I mean where should we go for a first date?
    He has asked me to tell him what we should do? I feel bad taking the lead decision to where we should go. I want him to suggest something other than movie, but don’t know what to say to him about it. But Vishal is sitting there still, all set to outgirl me, in making plans. If any movie, i want a good one, not the one like he thought earlier.
    I don’t know what to say to him. please give me your suggestions…

  67.  #67Ankita on July 10, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    I just read this post, as I was out the past 2 days…

    Aaahhh…I feel turned off by such men…. Feminine men, total turn-off for me……

    And had I been Deb, perhaps I would have backed off completely, no matter how much i did like him….

  68.  #68Brenda on July 11, 2010 at 12:33 am


    Without knowing you and your husband, most of what we say on here is a shot in the dark. But let me try a shot in the dark….

    Is it possible that if your husband is not in touch with his emotional core that he is also not in touch with his sexual identity? It sounds to me like the issue is him, not you. Is he open to counseling? With you? Without you? Have you discussed with him how much you miss sex?

  69.  #69Polli on July 11, 2010 at 3:12 am

    Tall Girl
    I don’t know if you will see this….but I will miss you so much. I have actually taken notes on very good things that you have said….that have helped me so much…for instance….”crumbs are not diamonds”. I hope you will be successful being away for awhile. You are right about the numbing aspect, but for me right now, I need that and also the help I find here because I am hurt and I have to get to the point that I will not fall into this place again….where there is so much pain. thanks for all the things you have written, wishing you the best—you are awesome!!!!

  70.  #70Renee on July 11, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Hi Everyone,

    This is my first post on this site. I just ordered Committment Blueprint and am feeling very excited while I wait for its arrival.

    I do have a question, though, that I’d love to get your input on…

    There’s this guy I’ve been seeing for a little while long distance. We met on eHarmony and emailed, txted and then talked on the phone for a total of about 2.5 months before we met in person. At that point, we had been txting everyday for several weeks and talking on the phone 3-4 times a week.

    Anyway, we live about 6 hours apart and for the first meeting, he drove to my city to meet me. We initially had just planned on having a Friday night date (he stayed at a nearby hotel), but we enjoyed each other’s company so much that we also went out to breakfast Saturday and then went out again Saturday night (I had to work some Saturday afternoon, so he had to entertain himself for a few hours, which he seemed ok with).

    During that weekend, he was so considerate and generous, that it really impressed me. He arrived Friday with a book by an author we both like, showed up Saturday for lunch with flowers and picked me up for dinner with a little trinket he had purchased at a tourist attraction he visited while I was working Saturday afternoon. I felt very comfortable with him and by Saturday night, we were holding hands a lot and sharing casual kisses like people who’ve been dating a while.

    So, the next episode of the story goes like this — before he left my city during his first visit, he asked if maybe we could get together again in his city. I said I thought we could work something out and when the subject of July 4th weekend came up, I mentioned that that might be a good weekend for that visit we talked about. (I know — I should have waited for him to suggest). Mistake number 2 was that I booked the ticket myself using my airline miles instead of letting him handle it (he made some motions towards handling it, but I didn’t feel like he was being decisive enough about making it a definite plan, although there were some extenuating circumstances for both of us that prevented us from making the plans firm in advance. So the end result was that I booked my ticket on Friday for a Sat-Mon visit (staying at his house).

    He showed up at the airport with a can of my favorite soft drink and a monkey he’d won for me that morning while out to breakfast with some buddies (playing one of those games you see in the lobby of some restaurants). Things still felt good.

    The weekend was full of tons of his friends (he has a boat dock at his house and he owns a boat with a couple of friends, so his house tends to be the gathering place for his group of friends when they go out on the boat). He had warned me that the July 4th weekend was a big boating weekend and would and that we would be surrounded by his friends, but we had had a quiet weekend at my house 2 weeks prior, so I didn’t mind spending a lot of the time with his pals…he was affectionate and solicitous throughout the trip, and I ended up sleeping with him the first night of the stay (despite my initial intention to hold off for at least another night or two).

    By the way, mistake number 3 was that I took his car to Starbucks Sun morning and he was extremely low on gas, so I filled up the car…he had mentioned that the car was low on gas and that there was some cash in the console if I needed to put in some, but I took it upon myself to fill up the tank anyway.

    I think he felt kind of guilty that I had filled up his gas tank and I’m not sure, but that might have been his motivation for buying me a Coach purse when we went shopping at an outlet mall near his house on Monday. It was sweet, but I would have appreciated it more if I didn’t suspect he was “paying me back” for filling his gas tank.

    So, to make a long story longer, lol, my trip got extended a day because of a screw up with the return ticket and I think we were both reeeaaally ready for me to head back home by the time I left Tues — work was beckoning each of us and we were both exhausted.

    Fast forward to this week — got txts from him Tues evening to see if I got in ok and got a couple of txts Wed, during which I shared that a situation I had been dreading was likely coming to a head on Thurs (it was a situation we had discussed in earlier conversations).

    So…not a word from him Thurs or Fri, despite the fact that he knew I was likely being faced with a pretty difficult and stressful situation (long story, but the gist is that my best friend abused my trust and I ended up having to call the police on her for taking some of my property…an action which obviously severed the relationship and has been very stressful).

    He finally touched base with me Saturday morning with a text indicating that he had gone to bed early Fri (which I guess was his way of letting me know he didn’t do anything that night) and asking me about work and the situation with my (now former) friend.

    I was so hurt that he decided to choose that time — the time I was obviously going to be facing something stressful — to pull a disappearing act. My feelings of rejection, of course, were compounded by the fact that we had become sexually inimate the weekend before, so I was feeling vulnerable about that.

    We haven’t discussed our future at all (it seems a little early to have that discussion?) though we did talk early on about the fact that we were both looking for someone special as opposed to just looking for someone to date.

    So my question is this — I know I’m not supposed to ask a guy why he hasn’t called, but his not calling (with all the extenuating circumstances) hurt my feelings and made me feel ignored. I didn’t answer his text from Saturday because I wasn’t sure whether to communicate my feelings to him or follow the rule about not questioning him about not calling.

    Could you please give me some guidance? I was kind of curious as to whether he’d follow up his text from yesterday with another text or call today, despite the fact that I didn’t reply, but I realize this is partially game playing and I’m trying to be more authenticate in my actions. On the other hand, I feel as though I’ve leaned forward a bit too much and since I can tell from his past actions that this guy definitely has it in him to row the boat (if he so chooses), I’m also kind of feeling like not answering is a way of leaning back to see if he’ll step forward again. What do you think?



  71.  #71Nikita on July 11, 2010 at 10:25 am


    Hi 🙂

  72.  #72Sherry on July 11, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Joan – Re #64 Everyone’s situation os dofferent. I don’t know all the details of yours, but this particular comment triggered something in me.

    I have been a single mom for the past 14 yrs. My children were very young when I divorced. Being both father and mother is a difficult thing to do sometimes. I’ve had my share of traumatic life experiences and without realizing I stuffed them down. Had to be the man so to speak, to make sure my kids were and felt safe, provided for, etc.

    After over 10 years of this, I had a ton of unresolved feelings stewing around in me. They were overwhelming to me. I lost interest in a lot of things, one of them being sex. It was easy to cuddle and kiss, that didn’t require me reaching down into the stew and actually feeling a lot. Just the every day feeling that brimmed on the surface was good enough for that. If I tried to actually feel I felt like I was going to explode. It was too much – too intense for me. So, in these situations, I turned on my anger and let off some of the steram that was building. it was just enough to allow the feelings to simmer back down and me put a lid back on them. Being angry was just a cover up for the things I actually felt. And it was easier to just get mad then it was to go in to the scary place of real feelings.

    Sex was just one of the casualties of this. I’m not sure if it applies to your situation or not. If you think it might I found a great article in the archives that would be a good place for you to start. Here’s the link –

  73.  #73Rori Raye on July 11, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Renee, Welcome, and with your great level of awareness, things will happen fast for you, I know — now – not answering a txt or call where he CLEARLY asks you to call him back is game playing – a no-no. However, your holding back until you get clear on how to answer makes perfect sense…This is why scripting in advance is helpful…At this point in the relationship – feeling “hurt” about his not calling is totally inappropriate – sorry. You can share with him sometime that you’re fairly “high-maintenance” and require a level of contact that might be a deal-breaker for you and a relationship with him, if he’s not that kind of person…IF that IS a deal-breaker. Oops – this is turning into a post – jumping off – look for it in a couple of weeks – Renee – I’ll email my response to you…Love, Rori

  74.  #74Renee on July 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Well, update on long distance guy…he sent me a Facebook friend request and a message on FB telling me that his phone fell in the lake and it was only working an hour or two here or there. So he says he’s at the office and gives me his number to call him since his phone is home sitting on the dock drying in the sun.

    I want to buy his story, but the fact remains that he could have communicated with me through the dating service we’re both on…understand, too, that this is someone who’s been txting or calling everyday (often multiple times a day) for a month now, so this was definitely different behavior for him.

    I realize if I had more men in the hopper, this would be less of an issue to me, but I always have a problem having sex outside of a committed relationship and I’m trying to keep CD until I’m engaged at some point, so this is definitely a struggle for me. I’m keeping my online dating accounts active and actively replying to people who seem someone intriguing, but no one has really floated my boat lately except long distance guy.

    Anyway, thanks, Rori, for the personal note. Once I get finished with some work, I may just call him back after all…

  75.  #75gina on July 11, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Hi Nikita 🙂
    I feel curious about what’s going on with you…Last I knew there was a man proposing to you but you weren’t that into him…

  76.  #76Jennifer on July 11, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I feel annoyed. I feel a little hopeless right now. I got an email on POF from a dude who seems soooooo angry with women.
    Ugh. I’m tired of this.
    Yes, maybe they are a mirror for me, but I feel bored by it. I feel like “ya know what? I’ve been treated badly too…but it’s not all over my damned profile…gawd.”
    Now he want’s to know how I feel …I think I’ll wait to respond, cause that might be my response.

  77.  #77Jennifer on July 11, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    I should start a professional profile writing service with all the tips I’ve gottne from the sirens here…then my clients wouldn’t put up profiles with this crap in it. The smilie face at the end is not helping.

    I always see things like, she was looking for a ‘relationship’ and she really wanted to get to know the person before she jumped into something. If that’s the case, why don’t you give that person an equal/fair chance. You can’t get to know someone in a matter of 2 weeks, having only gone out twice. Then say there not looking to just “hookup” with anyone, yet you find out they goto the bar to do just that. Then have the nerve to call you up because their car broke down and they need a ride. You go of course because you feel bad for them but then feel so used afterwards because that’s all she wanted you for, and that’s the only time they ever call you, is when they need you for something, being totally selfish. Making someone an option only, no thanks 🙂

    OOOO…….I feel bitter. I feel annoyed. I feel triggered. I know it’s cause B used to hate on women all the time in front of me (“did you know some women will stop taking the pill but tell a guy they’re still taking it to trap them with a pregnancy?” Fuckin seriously. )

  78.  #78Jennifer on July 11, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    I got moderated.
    Geeze. I used the F word.
    I should start a professional profile writing service with all the tips I’ve gottne from the sirens here…then my clients wouldn’t put up profiles with this crap in it. The smilie face at the end is not helping.

    I always see things like, she was looking for a ‘relationship’ and she really wanted to get to know the person before she jumped into something. If that’s the case, why don’t you give that person an equal/fair chance. You can’t get to know someone in a matter of 2 weeks, having only gone out twice. Then say there not looking to just “hookup” with anyone, yet you find out they goto the bar to do just that. Then have the nerve to call you up because their car broke down and they need a ride. You go of course because you feel bad for them but then feel so used afterwards because that’s all she wanted you for, and that’s the only time they ever call you, is when they need you for something, being totally selfish. Making someone an option only, no thanks

    OOOO…….I feel bitter. I feel annoyed. I feel triggered. I know it’s cause B used to hate on women all the time in front of me (“did you know some women will stop taking the pill but tell a guy they’re still taking it to trap them with a pregnancy?” Fing seriously. )

  79.  #79Jennifer on July 11, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Judo instructor friended my sister in fb too…less interesting.

  80.  #80AmberS on July 11, 2010 at 7:00 pm


    Thank you for being so brave and sharing your story here on the board. I have been reading for quite a while, but this is my first comment. I feel sad that you and your hubby are dealing with being unemployed at the same time.
    I am divorced, but when I was married my husband went through a long spell of unemployment. We had major issues, but I remember him completely losing his sex drive. I felt really hurt & rejected. Later I was in counseling and I was told that men often lose their sex drive as a reaction to losing their role as financial provider. My hubby was angry, mean, verbally abusive and impotent. The smallest thing would send him off into a rage. He became very upset by not being able to control things, because he was no longer in control of his own life. I really did the wrong things and made the problem worse (because I didn’t know any of this then) by assuming control while he melted down. He felt emasculated even more and I lost respect for him. If I had known how to lean back and be REAL and true to myself instead of trying to do what I thought he needed we might have had a chance. Instead I took on the masculine role.
    I do not want to make excuses for your hubby. I feel total admiration for you, that you are working on yourself, and towards getting your needs met. I love how you are also keeping the big picture in mind while you do it. You see that he has triggers and you are feeling your way through this work to find the way to heal yourself, but not at his expense, or at a cost to your safety.
    You can’t rebuild a burning house until you put out the fire.
    I feel really hopeful that you will find tools and support here that help you, and that you will see yourself as the sexy, alluring, feminine siren that he can not resist. It is your divine right.

  81.  #81Brenda on July 11, 2010 at 10:33 pm


    Welcome! I feel curious to know what Rori is going to respond when she responds fully.

    Here is my feedback on your situation. It feels like a full steam ahead boat ride, and it’s entirely possible that his phone fell in the lake. It would be best to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact is he contacted you. And he missed just a day or two. That isn’t a punishable offense!

    Seriously, I have some objectivity to see that, at least at my level of understanding, all is going well. But I remember last year, when I was in an exclusive relationship with Ryan, and we spent almost every evening together for 9 months. If he missed a night or two, for whatever reason, it felt like a month and I felt so rejected! So I freaked out too.

    When that passion juice is flowing thru your veins and you think about him 24-7, it’s hard to imagine he would want to do anything BUT contact you every hour or two! It could be he is regrouping internally after seeing how fast things are progressing…sometimes a man is vulnerable after he touches on intimacy, and you most definitely have. So he withdraws for a little.

    Probably a good thing to do would be to make a “Like List”…100 things you LIKE to do. Then when you feel like you can’t stand it, you occupy yourself with something you enjoy. And it would be wise to circular date. Commitment Blueprint is top notch, and I’m sure it will help you along! I listened to it about 3 times! And I am most definitely still in process. I don’t mean to be speaking as an authority here. I like to process the situations of other goddesses on here as a safe means of trying my wings. Best wishes with your relationship!

  82.  #82Renee on July 12, 2010 at 4:30 am


    Thanks for your comments and your insight.

    Yah — 2 days with no contact seemed like a really long time when I was used to hearing from him every day, but I guess in the grand scheme of things, it’s not that big of a deal. If I hadn’t slept with him, I suspect it wouldn’t have bothered me as much, but then again, I might have blamed the lack of sex for his apparent backing off, lol!

    A guy friend of mine asked me an interesting question after I returned from my wknd, though, and I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts…he asked me how I enjoyed being this guy’s “show and tell” in front of all his boating friends that wknd because we were very affectionate with each other the whole wknd, even though we spent most of it with his friends. I thought it was a positive thing that he wanted me to meet his friends, but it never occurred to me that I might just be his “flavor of the week” and he just wanted to show off an attractive woman to his friends. What do you think?

    I finally responded to his FB msg, but instead of telling him all about the work issues and the situation with my former best friend (which he asked about), so here was my msg:

    “I’ve missed talking with you too (that’s how he had opened his message to me). I’m sorry to hear your phone went for a dip in the lake without a raft or a bathing suit…does your droid know it’s not a good idea to go skinny-dipping in such a public lake?:-)

    I have too much to tell you to put in an email…ttys.”

    I think the tone was positive, open and loving, despite the anxiety I was feeling.

    He said in his msg that if his phone didn’t start working today that he’d have to get a new one, so he should have a working phone tonight in any event, so I think it’s reasonable to expect a call tonight, don’t you?

  83.  #83Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Hi Renee,

    I like your message to him! I like your “too much to tell you in a message” which very comfortably gives him the message, “Yo, dude, call me!”

    If a new man invited me to be around all his friends, I’d feel totally honored! It’s only one step removed from introducing you to his family! One thing that always made me feel bad about Ryan is he never brought me around his family and what few friends he had. He kept our relationship between me and him. We went to the community center together where we met, and that felt good, but that was it. I think it means he likes you if he wants to be seen with you by his friends. I would feel deeply complimented! You go girly!

  84.  #84Nikita on July 12, 2010 at 10:05 am


    I was pretty into him after he proposed but nothing came of it thus far. I’ve given up on trying to figure it out. I learned from the experience. I feel mildly disappointed that we aren’t engaged but I feel confident it’s not the end of the world 😉

  85.  #85dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 10:14 am

    renee that was a great response, i like it. you’re good, girl.

  86.  #86Siena on July 12, 2010 at 10:33 am

    ai ai ai. Things are going really well with #1CD. We continue to date and have fun, and communication and intimacy is through the roof fantastic.

    As I get to know him better, I see that there are some issues there that I wouldn’t have guessed would be there. But I feel good believing that I/we can handle them. And we’ve talked about them, as well as talked about talking about them.

    But I can’t shake a feeling of this is all going to blow up in my face. He hasn’t done anything to indicate that it is going to blow up. In fact, he continuously surprises me with how much he behaves like he WANTS to be here.

    I have this underlying feeling of walking on eggshells, though, and I don’t like it. Especially since I don’t believe it has anything to do with him/us. It’s really all me.

    What do I do to get over this? I could see it ruining things for us if I can’t relax and just allow myself to be happy! I mean, I’m happy when I think about him, but then I’m genuinely surprised each time he calls me… I keep expecting him never to call me again. (and of course he does, and continues to pursue me.)

    And I need to get rid of those self-limiting beliefs because I don’t want them to come true.


  87.  #87Lucy on July 12, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Siena, I’m rooting for you girl! Is it basically a feeling of fear? I would sink into the fear, allow myself to feel it completely without resistance or judgment, and see if it transforms or unearths specific areas for healing. (((HUGS)))


  88.  #88moli on July 12, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Hiya I have a question about circular dating. I’ve been following the CD advice on here and am currently dating 3 (sometimes more guys) and have suddenly found myself with 3 guys who seem really keen on me. Treating me well. Want to take me out for dinner. Call when they say they’ll call. Non of them want to hurt me. Two in particular I have some pretty close and intimate conversations with. really open. Prety amazing actually! I’ve been feeling great and maybe flirting a bit too.

    But…and here’s the icky bit… now they all seem dead keen I want to run and hide! I feel overwhelmed. I feel like they’re all coming at me at the same time. They all want to kiss and hold hands and I feel weird about it. I don’t want to kiss one on tuesday and another on wednesday. It feels too close. Too much pressure. I still feel like I need time to decide how I feel about them.

    How do I play for time? I certainly don’t want to sleep with any of them… till I feel sure that i want to.
    Non of them knows that I’m dating any other men, but i think they suspect I am as I’m always so flippin busy.

    Help?? Anyone??

  89.  #89Siena on July 12, 2010 at 10:53 am

    thanks Lucy! Yes, it’s fear. How would I sink into it? Do I set a specific amount of time for feeling it? Like 30 minutes?

    I feel afraid of giving fear any voice at all because I don’t want it to come true….

  90.  #90Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Hi Siena!

    Lucy reminded you of a good tool and I’ll also remind you of the cage visualization. First picture your cage, with you in it, with all your limiting beliefs: “He won’t call. If it’s too good to be true, it probably is. What if I say the wrong thing? Etc, etc.”

    Now picture the cage door opening, and you are like a little bird that hops to the entrance, then boldly on top of the cage. You see the blue sky of freedom all around you, and your limiting beliefs of the cage beneath you. Which will it be?

    You mustn’t leave your cage! That’s your only safe place, cuz that’s all you’ve ever known! But look again out into the wild blue yonder! Wow, all that freedom, and life, and endless gliding on the wind is open to me now!

    Now jump! Spread your wings (no! not your legs, you pervert! 🙂 ) and fly! Feel the rush of air and feel the strength of your wings as they buoy you up, up into the open blue sky!

    You are free, beautiful bird!

  91.  #91dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 11:00 am

    siena, my love! i was feeling the same way with my most prominent CD also…i was just scary honest with him about it. i used feeling messages.

    they are men. they can handle the ugly truth.

  92.  #92Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Hi Moli!

    The best example I’ve ever seen of holding a healthy boundary was in Ryan, who I dated most of last year. He is the first man I’ve ever been with who didn’t try to grope me, and it’s the first time I was the one who had to put the brakes on!

    I’ve shared a lot of negative about him on here, but please trust me that the positive also abounded in some areas!

    He would get so close and then, when I expected him to move to “the next level”, he would softly run the back of his hand over my cheek and say something like this, “I want to, but I want to be sure I’m with the right woman.” or “This is getting too romantic. I just want to be friends for now. ” Little by little, it became clear that he was dead serious about checking out a woman on all levels deeply over an extended period of time before he made a commitment.


    That part of him was a role model to me! He told me many times romance is as important to him as his relationship with God. He didn’t care about a lot of things he considered trite, such as what kind of car he drove. But he poured a lot of energy into finding a good romance.

    Disclaimer: In case anyone feels weird about that, after all the things he did to hurt me, I will remind you that the definition of schizophrenia is split personality. It was the negative side of him that broke my heart. This was the positive side of him, and I believe strongly it is the REAL him.

  93.  #93Siena on July 12, 2010 at 11:11 am

    “Spread your wings (no! not your legs, you pervert! 🙂 ) and fly!”

    LOL I seriously laughed out loud with that one… thanks for the laugh. I’ll do the cage tool!

    Dorothea, I feel good talking to him about it. I’ve been disgustingly honest with him about the things that I’m feeling (when appropriate, I don’t barrage him) and he’s fielded everything like a pro.

    So I can talk to him and stuff, but would that make ME feel better? I mean, I’m pretty certain this is about MY issues, and nothing having to do with him.

    Wow, this is a first for me! Maybe for the first time in a while, I’m thinking about how communicating my feelings would serve ME only, and not him or us! Woah… what’s this!? I’m surprising myself!

  94.  #94dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 11:14 am

    oh brenda, you’re gonna wanna slap me but I dedicated a lot of my senior psycholinguistic studies to schizophrenia, and although the greek etymology implies the meaning of “split mind,” this is a false definition (as is split personality) and really schizophrenia is marked by disorganized thought and speech, as well as hallucinations and paranoia.

    just another case of the ol’ misleading etymology. hehe.

    what is the name of that site you were telling ryan about with the dude who says he cured his schizophrenia?

  95.  #95dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 11:18 am

    SIena, i have faith in you and your quest to total goddesshood, and i also feel like sometimes this sort of thing just takes time…you’ll feel cool eventually as long as you keep the channels open for your feelings.

  96.  #96Siena on July 12, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Moli, I know how you’re feeling, because I’ve jumped back and forth from that feeling a few times in the past several months.

    For me, what I realized was that I started to become overwhelmed when I was THINKING about everything that went on. I was overthinking everything.

    When I instead went with what I was feeling in the moment, things stopped being overwhelming to me. That was how I could kiss one guy on Tuesday and another on Wednesday… only by staying completely present in the moment.

    …and that meant that if I had a date that I didn’t feel good going on, I would call the guy up and cancel, telling him that I don’t feel good and would like to reschedule.

    … okay, I just taught myself a lesson. I’m overthinking #1CD. I need to relax into the present moment, which is a time when I’m (supposed to be) working, earning money, and in my masculine energy.

    He’s not here right now, no feelings necessary. No need to feel worried about something that’s not true. The only true thing right now is that I’m working in my office and need to crank out some work.

  97.  #97Siena on July 12, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Thanks Dorothea! I need to have faith in myself also! I can do this! 🙂

  98.  #98Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:23 am


    LOL! I’m glad you liked that! 🙂 I know one of the feeling messages Rori suggested in her programs is, “I feel so insecure right now, and it would make all my insecurities go away if you ______. What do you think?” Something like that.


    I knew I was giving a simplified definition, but that is because schizophrenia is so complex, and I am assuming most Sirens aren’t interested in going in depth with it. But as usual, you are full of surprises, you wild Siren, you! 🙂

    We can talk schizophrenia all day. It is a topic I’ve grown quite interested in. And, if that is freaking anyone out, you are welcome to email me to discuss it at! My view is that the textbooks pretty much tell you the observable actions and behaviors of schizophrenia.

    Did you ever think of something funny in your mind and laugh out loud? Everyone else around you saw just a tan elevator wall with elevator music, but you were thinking or feeling something inside, recalling something funny a Siren said on here, or what-have-you. Does that mean you hallucinated that you laughed for no apparent reason? No. It means you were reliving a conversation in your mind or thinking about a funny joke you heard or whatever.

    So just cuz a psychiatrist doesn’t see what the schizophrenic is responding to doesn’t mean the schizophrenic didn’t really hear or see something.

    I would like to discuss this with you further in more depth, but I hesitate to on this blog, since it is dedicated to discussing primarily romantic relationships. The website is I read the autobiography of the website’s owner, James Stacey, who is an elderly man living in England.

  99.  #99Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:27 am


    LOL! I’m glad you liked that! I know one of the feeling messages Rori suggested in her programs is, “I feel so insecure right now, and it would make all my insecurities go away if you ______. What do you think?” Something like that.


    I knew I was giving a simplified definition, but that is because schizophrenia is so complex, and I am assuming most Sirens aren’t interested in going in depth with it. But as usual, you are full of surprises, you wild Siren, you!

    We can talk schizophrenia all day. It is a topic I’ve grown quite interested in. And, if that is freaking anyone out, you are welcome to email me to discuss it at! My view is that the textbooks pretty much tell you the observable actions and behaviors of schizophrenia.

    Did you ever think of something funny in your mind and laugh out loud? Everyone else around you saw just a tan elevator wall with elevator music, but you were thinking or feeling something inside, recalling something funny a Siren said on here, or what-have-you. Does that mean you hall*cinated that you laughed for no apparent reason? No. It means you were reliving a conversation in your mind or thinking about a funny joke you heard or whatever.

    So just cuz a psychiatrist doesn’t see what the schizophrenic is responding to doesn’t mean the schizophrenic didn’t really hear or see something.

    I would like to discuss this with you further in more depth, but I hesitate to on this blog, since it is dedicated to discussing primarily romantic relationships. The website is I read the autobiography of the website’s owner, James Stacey, who is an elderly man living in England.

  100.  #100Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:28 am


    LOL! I’m glad you liked that! I know one of the feeling messages Rori suggested in her programs is, “I feel so insecure right now, and it would make all my insecurities go away if you ______. What do you think?” Something like that.


    I knew I was giving a simplified definition, but that is because schizophrenia is so complex, and I am assuming most Sirens aren’t interested in going in depth with it. But as usual, you are full of surprises, you wild Siren, you!

    We can talk schizophrenia all day. It is a topic I’ve grown quite interested in. And, if that is freaking anyone out, you are welcome to email me to discuss it at mistywindfall at! My view is that the textbooks pretty much tell you the observable actions and behaviors of schizophrenia.

    Did you ever think of something funny in your mind and laugh out loud? Everyone else around you saw just a tan elevator wall with elevator music, but you were thinking or feeling something inside, recalling something funny a Siren said on here, or what-have-you. Does that mean you hallucinated that you laughed for no apparent reason? No. It means you were reliving a conversation in your mind or thinking about a funny joke you heard or whatever.

    So just cuz a psychiatrist doesn’t see what the schizophrenic is responding to doesn’t mean the schizophrenic didn’t really hear or see something.

    I would like to discuss this with you further in more depth, but I hesitate to on this blog, since it is dedicated to discussing primarily romantic relationships. The website is schizophrenia defeated. I read the autobiography of the website’s owner, James Stacey, who is an elderly man living in England.

  101.  #101Siena on July 12, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Brenda, the thing is, I only feel insecure when he’s not here. When I’m with him, I feel totally secure and wanted.

    I can practice here though…and then if it comes up when I’m with him, I can speak to him about it.

    “I’m feeling insecure. I feel afraid that this will all blow up in my face, and like it’s too good to be true. I want to feel secure, but don’t know how. What do you think?”

  102.  #102Nikita on July 12, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Dear Joan,

    This is a no cost to you resource. The site is;

    … case you’d feel more comfortable with options and background. I loved Rori’s book and I’d recommend it to every woman. Pat Allen writes about feminine energy and masculine in her book getting to “I do”. I’d imagine most libraries would carry that.

    I also feel very comfortable with radical honesty- e.g.; I feel horny, I feel randy, I feel aroused, I feel sexually frustrated, I feel feisty…..I feel wet 😉

    Or in your case….” I’m horny, I’m turned on, I’m aroused”…

    Best wishes,

  103.  #103Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:47 am


    That feeling statement is good. And what I recalled from Rori’s program is just an example. I think I brought it up to show that sometimes it’s okay to tell your man how you feel, even if it IS just your own internal triggers or baggage. The main thing is letting him know you are handling it, and just letting him into your soft heart. I love how Rori teaches us that even our negative feelings can be a means of connecting intimately!

  104.  #104dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 11:49 am

    schizophrenics are deeply misunderstood….there is a saying i read once – “in the moment someone else understands what the patient is getting at, the patient ceases to be schizophrenic.”

    i studied schizophrenic language…to me schizophrenia is more than one disorder all lumped into an umbrella term. But the language aspect of schizophrenic behavior suggests a psychological inability to control association and activation in the brain. So a schizophrenic is constantly triggered (something many of us can relate to), and a conversation about a hoover vacuum cleaner could turn into a monologue about politics

  105.  #105dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 11:51 am

    my “negative” feeling messages have never pushed a man away.

  106.  #106Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:52 am


    Here’s another thought. Once I was desperately unemployed. I needed a job yesterday. I was going to an interview for a job that paid $40 an hour. I wanted it so bad I could taste it. I knew my nervousness and insecurity tended to stumble me at job interviews, so, even tho I wasn’t a disciple of Rori yet, I envisioned walking into the company for the first day on my job!

    I totally primed myself, and when I walked in for my interview, I was smiling big and holding my head high because I was imagining it was my first $40/hr job! Does it surprise you that I got the job?? 🙂

    So you could imagine that you are already married to CD#1, or that you already have a ring on your finger. And everytime those insecure thoughts try to crowd it, just imagine how life will be as Mrs. CD#1! 🙂

  107.  #107Nikita on July 12, 2010 at 11:53 am


  108.  #108Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 11:57 am


    I find what you said fascinating. I don’t feel comfortable discussing it any deeper with you on this blog, altho it would feel really good to discuss it more deeply.

    That’s the beauty of feeling messages! You’re right, they DON’T push a man away…they draw him closer! In the past, I pushed men away, because I didn’t know how to communicate effectively. Feeling messages have changed my life, along with all the rest of Rori’s tools!

    I’ve been using them with every relationship, and I have just come out of two weeks of leaning back when a girlfriend forgot a dinner date we had Friday before last. I felt really hurt and rejected, because she’s one of my most important friends. I even called her that night, and it went to voicemail.

    I was tempted to call her this past weekend, but I just leaned back. I am very happy that today she emailed me, asking when we’re going to get together!

  109.  #109Siena on July 12, 2010 at 11:58 am

    wow, my heart is racing Bren! Last week, I started planning my wedding. Not to #1CD, because I’m trying to stay away from the ‘who’, but in order to garner the excitement for a life I want to have so that I stay on my bridge.

    And everything I’ve been reading and hearing is telling me to stick where I feel happy and where it’s fun. Well, dating #1CD is happy and fun, so I just have to trust that I’m in a good spot.

    …and I DO imagine a ring on my finger. I feel the weight of it and everything.

    I’m serious about getting to my happily ever after! I just don’t want to force the “who” and the “when”.


  110.  #110Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Awesome, Siena!

    Did you ever hear the song, “Dear Friend”, by Charlie Peacock?! You would love it! It is one of the theme songs of my life!

  111.  #111Lucy on July 12, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    “The main thing is letting him know you are handling it..”

    Yes, that’s what I was going to say, Brenda. It is great to communicate our feelings of fear and insecurity to him BUT it has to be from a place of inner strength where we are not making him responsible for our feelings — as Rori has said, he needs to see that we are in touch with our feelings AND CAN HANDLE THEM — and that makes HIM feel safe with his own feelings and opening up to US. He can’t fix what is OURS to fix either.

    So, Siena, I would want to face my fear bravely. If we avoid feeling it because we are afraid of it … well, it’s still there, lurking underneath, unconsciously sabotaging us anyway! So, better to feel it CONSCIOUSLY and let the energy of it flow (instead of keeping it trapped in our unconscious mind and our body) . . . once the energy of the feeling starts flowing, it can flow OUT of us.

    For me, it helps to focus on steady breathing while I feel a scary feeling — I notice that sometimes I start holding my breath in conjunction with resisting feeling the feeling (I stop breathing and start thinking, rather than feeling) — but as long as I am breathing, I am truly feeling it. It’s hard! I keep wanting to resist feeling, go into my head. I have to be determined to let it keep flowing. I observe the thoughts and “stories” that come up while i am feeling — just observe and notice them, without judging or getting involved with them — let them pass through as if they are little stories a little girl inside you is making up to try to explain the feelings that she doesn’t understand — they are a little girl’s stories — And sometimes a particular story will trigger an intense reaction inside you, might make you start to sob — and then you can comfort the little girl (you!!) who believes that story, and tell her it’s not true, and that everything will be just fine — and hold her close with your love — But the key is to keep FEELING while the stories pass through…. the fear may change to become grief or anger or longing or shame etc. …. keep feeling whatever comes up until you feel a sense of release and peace.

    This is what works for me. Others may disagree. It is completely different from “wallowing” — though I may not have explained it clearly enough for that to be evident.

    Whatever tools you use, Siena, I believe in you! You will be victorious! Your heart is in the right place. <3

  112.  #112Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 12:08 pm


    How do you feel about the website?

    Ya know what’s interesting? I actually believe I understand Ryan! Does that mean he’s no longer schizophrenic? 🙂

  113.  #113Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Dorothea…or does it mean that I have gone insane!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! (**laughing insanely!**)

    Disclaimer: Don’t mind me…insanity keeps me sane! LOL!

  114.  #114Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 12:13 pm


    You described processing negative emotions very clearly, as clearly as Rori herself! 🙂

  115.  #115Lucy on July 12, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Thanks, Brenda!

    And no need to feel jealous about R (from other thread) — he doesn’t share our faith, which is one of the reasons he’s not good LTR material. He was raised Catholic in Argentina, but became disillusioned with the Christian faith altogether. Interestingly, though, he told me he feels scared of death and wanted to know if I believed in an afterlife.

  116.  #116Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 12:43 pm


    Hmmm, thanks for sharing! It’s wonderful that you enjoyed yourself so much anyway!

  117.  #117Siena on July 12, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Lucy, thank you so much for that! I like the idea that it’s not “wallowing”. I don’t want to wallow… but if I can process the feelings, well… that’s great!

    Thank you so much!

  118.  #118tinque on July 12, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Siena – Another way of dealing with fear or any other bad feeling feeling I found for me is to sink into whatever it is that feels bad as you are preparing for sleep.
    Get comfortable in your initial falling asleep sleeping position, and sink into the feeling as if it’s a soft cloud or mattress. Really sink into it, so deeply as if you have almost have no physical form. You become one with the softness. Really feel the feeling. Do your best not to attach any thoughts to any of this. You will soon fall asleep.
    The reason I like this method is that you are at your most open and vulnerable as you are falling asleep thus more easily reprogrammable. It’s easier to process and transform the feelings.
    I find by morning the bad feeling stuff is gone, and I feel relieved and renewed.

  119.  #119Siena on July 12, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Thanks Tinque! I’m pretty sure I’ve never sunk into a feeling before – except maybe when dancing or doing yoga… I’ll try it out. Thank you so much!

  120.  #120dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Brenda (and any other sirens), are you on facebook? I would feel delighted to be friends on there. Then we can discuss non-siren island stuff.

  121.  #121Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 2:46 pm


    I recently deleted my facebook account cuz I was concerned about safety. But I was thinking of restarting one. Now I know I will. Just for you! 🙂 And we can talk about marriage in Tijuana, too! LOL!

  122.  #122Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 2:55 pm


    I really like your suggestion! I’ve done that for years, without any instruction. I just had so much deep stuff to process that I grappled for every and any way to get it the hell out of my system! I love my bedtime moments of deep inner meditation! I reason things thru and get them out of the emotional gray muck and into clarity. Sure enough, they are usually resolved and gone by morning!

    “Weeping endures for a night, but joy comes in the morning!”

  123.  #123Orna Walters on July 12, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I’d love to connect with all of you Goddesses on Facebook.


  124.  #124Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:05 pm


    I just reactivated my account…Brenda Thompson.

  125.  #125tinque on July 12, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Dominique Christine, that’s me on FB and in my non blog life.

  126.  #126dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    brenda, its like u have one of the most common names ever and i’m too terrified to put my real name on this site (i work in politics and am often googled)…anything more identifiable i can find you with?

  127.  #127Orna Walters on July 12, 2010 at 3:12 pm


    If you are concerned about privacy on FB there are settings that allow you to customize who sees what.

    If there is someone in particular you don’t want to find you, search them, scroll down on their page to Report/Block this person. Even if they search for you, that person will not find you.

    If you need any specific help ask me, I am happy to help you!

    Big Hug,

  128.  #128Jennifer on July 12, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Orna, I added you.
    And you Tinque
    And you Brenda, I’m trying to add but haven’t seen one that lookslike you yet.

  129.  #129Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:31 pm


    If you do a search for my name, I think I am the first one to show up. And you know what I look like from my pic, right? In my profile, I am wearing a brown sleeveless shirt.

  130.  #130Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I admit I haven’t used facebook much. What more can I give you for you to find me? I don’t want to use my real last name. I gave my married name. I don’t know how to make it easy to find me.

  131.  #131dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    yay i found u!

  132.  #132Orna Walters on July 12, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    One of the limitations of FB is that there is a limit on friends. I have more requests that I have space. (What my husband would call a “Quality Problem.”) 😉

    Please connect with me at my Page which has no limit!

    Looking forward to chatting with you all there!

    Jennifer – STUNNING photo! OMG!! Please connect at my page.

  133.  #133Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Okay, you guys, I hope I don’t regret this…

  134.  #134Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:40 pm


    I realized there are about 500 Brenda Thompsons. So now I am under my real name. Oh Lord, please protect me!

    Yes, Orna, I saw your post about protecting myself. I will have to work with some of that. Thank you!

  135.  #135Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    There’s only one page of Brenda Caleys! 🙂 I had no idea! I’ll have to contact them and see if we’re related!

  136.  #136dorothea on July 12, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    brenda i had found u…i am not dorothea on facebook but you’ll know it’s me by the goddessy mustache lololol

  137.  #137Orna Walters on July 12, 2010 at 3:46 pm


    From the HOME page top right click on ACCOUNT – menu opens, select PRIVACY SETTINGS. Choose CUSTOM and you pick what you desire!

    EASY! 😉

    Big Hug,

  138.  #138Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Cool, thanks!

  139.  #139Lizzie on July 12, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Ugh, I am not feeling the glow of happiness, I am feeling the angst of frustration. A new guy from POF – the last one to contact me right before I closed my account – had suggested we get together either last evening or tonight. That was on Thursday before I went out of town for a few days to do a project. Late last night – like 10:00 or so, he called and was all chatty. I said that I was rather tired and eating so didn’t wish to be chatting for much longer. I did ask if he was planning on meeting me tonight (yes, I leaned-in, but I wanted to get off the phone), and he said yes and to call him. So now I know I am in trouble because last week when we spoke, I had said that I would be happy if he organized something and left a message for me while I was out of town. But he didn’t organize anything and now I was stuck with having to call. So even though I was irritated with myself for getting into this predicament, I called at 4:00 and he was not there. So I left a message, saying that I called, the time, and that I was in the office. He called back at 6:15 but I was busy with something else so didn’t answer. Now what do I do? I have decided I don’t want to see him. I am all irritated – I am feeling frustrated that he didn’t organize something and kept asking me to call him – I don’t want to call him and I really don’t want to organize something, I don’t want to do the guy job here. And now I am pissed that I am in this situation. I can’t even come up with a feeling message that doesn’t sound like I think he is an idiot –

    I am feeling frustrated …. as I was hoping you would call earlier so that we could have had Thai food together… and now I am so busy with work I would rather work tonight anyway, but I didn’t have time to make a plan that would help me get work done and meet you as well, so what do you think? And that is what would come out spontaneously… pretty awful….I don’t know if I am going to get the hang of this… everything I write down sounds hurtful – I don’t want to be hurtful. And now I have decided I don’t want to meet him anyway. He seems to like chatting endlessly about nothing and I find that irritating. I want him to call, ask me to go out for Thai, arrange it a few days in advance so that I can organize my work around it, and then hang up the damn phone. Ugh, I hate dating….

  140.  #140Lizzie on July 12, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    And I have bad allergies, am too tired, feel like crap, and have so much tension in my neck it is like a board and I could probably saw it off and be happy….

  141.  #141Lizzie on July 12, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Seems I forgot to pay for one of my daughter’s summer camps – the big one – 3 weeks of swim camp. I called because I didn’t have a pick-up schedule and was wondering what time and location. Now I am angry with myself because I thought I had done all this to get the big discount back in January – I am so frustrated with myself I could cry…seems like I am stuffing feelings…I don’t know how to let them out…I was really happy yesterday…so what happened? Moved into feeling inadequate and undeserving really really quickly here…

  142.  #142Lizzie on July 12, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Urika! I know what it is….I feel overwhelmed. I am living in chaos and my brain has turned to chaos and all the feels are chaos. Adding the frustration of making a phone call is like adding to the chaos and adding to feeling more overwhelmed.

  143.  #143Lizzie on July 12, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    where did everyone go? dinner?

  144.  #144Brenda on July 12, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Hi Lizzie,

    Sorry you are having a ruff day. I was watching “Duplex” while playing with my toy. 🙂

  145.  #145Alicia on July 12, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Mars/ Venus – Starting Over.. CH 9
    John Gray

    (I found this informative… not sure where to best post it…. This is all very true.. good to be aware of. (Also, saying this in a “tongue and cheek wink way”.. .. good for the women who are into to the cougar thing AND get attached Mrs. Robinson.. Here’s to you, take this into consideration) if you don’t then go Rock star. This applies to us all.. especially after a break up – Alicia)

    ** pg. 194 **Another way some women push love out of their lives is to expect passion right away in the relationship. If the don’t feel the earth shake, then they are not interested in a relationship. The are only interested in pursuing a relationship if they feel the spark of passion.

    When a women does not allow herself to feel her loss, she diminishes her ability to feel. She hungers to feel, but mistakenly believes the “right” man will
    open her up. She does not realize that the feeling she is missing is *suppressed. within her. To the extent a man to ignite her romantic passions.

    When a woman is not dealing her with her suppressed feelings, going out with a nice guy who is interested in her is not appealing. She needs to feel alive. There must be some dramatic tension for her to in touch with her feelings. When there is danger, she is aroused. The danger could be physical, but it is emotional. She experiences the possibility of losing his love.

    – Some women need to be in “relationship danger” before they can feel fully alive–

    esides from being a symptom of suppressed feelings, this excessive hunger for romance and passion is also encouraged on movies and t.v. If a woman favorite actress experiences immediate passion.. why can’t she?

    Women who depend on a man to awaken their passion for living will continue to be disappointed. Maybe women in the movies get turned on right away but, in the real world, it takes time and loving communication. In real life, the women who find lasting love are not immediately arroused. The passion they eventually feel takes time to develop.

    This is NOT the same for a MAN… A man may feel the sexual passion right away. Men are wired diferently. They first feel their sexual attraction, and GRADUALLY it develops into affection then INTEREST…

    When a woman experiences sexual attraction right away, it is a clear sign that she is “IMAGINING” in her mind that she already knows the man. When a woman feels sexual attraction tight away, it is clearly a warning signal.

    — When starting over, if a woman meets a man who ignites her passion, she should run the other way—-

    When a woman is attracted to finding passion, she lives in a world of disappointment. The only men that make her feel that passion, are in some way dangerous. Like the mountain climber, race car drivers need for speed. She is automatically attracted to men who can hurt her in some way..


    P.s.. this really help me see why CD’ing is SOOO important.. and the triggers too! 😉

  146.  #146Alicia on July 12, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Higher Awareness (perfect timing in my inbox)

    Heal dualities

    “Beware of the fury of the patient man.”

    — John Dryden

    Our minds perceive and give relative value – positive and negative – to the different sides of a duality. We usually shun the negative. ****

    It’s important to know that you cannot eliminate the negative by focusing exclusively on the positive. Energetically, both opposites must remain in balance. Increase one and its opposite will also increase. Try to be only positive and the negative within you will raise its ugly head.

    We work with dualities by remembering that each is part of the whole. We must acknowledge and accept all aspects of life, because they all exist within us. And so, if we seek to be honest, we do so by acknowledging our potential to be dishonest. We can also bring in love and compassion when we catch ourselves acting out the negative.

    Power arises out of integrating the positive and negatives within us. From the tension that exists between the two, we develop awareness and become more conscious and compassionate.

    “Any fool can run towards the light. It takes a master with courage to turn and face the darkness and shine his own light there.”

    — Leslie Fieger – author of the Delfin Knowledge System

  147.  #147Ankita on July 13, 2010 at 12:21 am


    Re# 101

    I really liked what you said to Siena….

    You know what i sometimes feel scared of..! I sometimes feel scared, that am not chasing Vishal like other girls do, (Touch wood, i hope I don’t ever do this, to anyone), and feel scared as to he might not go there…

    Sometimes I feel like, what if I chased him, then again i think, what’s the need to do so, he knows i like him…!!

    I don’t chase anyone or even him, but when I see girls chasing him, I feel afraid might not I lose him.. in that chase…!!

    Girls keep scrapping him on orkut, fb, etc. and also keep asking for his phone number, etc.

    I know chase hardly feels good to a man, but he likes it when I initiate things “sometimes”, and that makes me go mad…!!

    I don’t want girls to chase him… I feel yuck….

  148.  #148Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 8:35 am


    Thank you! You are doing a fantastic job with Vishal! Keep on the path of leaning back, lighting his way to your heart, and you will be where you want to!

  149.  #149Dan_Brodribb on July 13, 2010 at 11:29 am

    My sweetie sometimes teases me by calling me “the girl” in our relationship, so I read this article with interest.

    My only comment is this: On behalf of Men Who Save Romantic Texts From Their Partners and Talk About Their Feelings everywhere, please do not mistake ‘guys with feminine energy’ with ‘guys who are lame.’ We hate that.

    Thank you. That is all.

  150.  #150Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 11:41 am


    I told my exhusband, “You’re my wife and you know it!”

    He laughed and agreed! But he’s very masculine and I love it when men can handle joking around like that!

    Like me tricking Bill into saying, “I da ho!”

    Men who wear pink shirts and can cry are the most masculine men I know! I love that when a man is strong and soft!

  151.  #151Simply Shannon on July 13, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Every time I read this line I laugh…

    You can chase him down and take his clothes off and have sex with him and call him and visit him like he’s a doll. He won’t resist you. He just doesn’t do much.

    I laugh because I’ve had a “doll” before. And that’s just funny. Sad in a way too. I was trying to get my doll to turn into a man. “Pinocchio becomes a real boy”. Oh what a fantasy. A was a doll. Oh how I wish he had been a man. Sigh.

    Dan: I would feel weird calling my man “the girl”. I don’t want to feel disrespectful. I wouldn’t like it anymore than I would like to be called “the boy” just because I want to drive the car or pay for our meal, etc. I would feel flattered that my guy saves texts I’ve sent him. What do you think?

  152.  #152Simply Shannon on July 13, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Alicia: Expecting the Earth to shake…

    When a woman experiences sexual attraction right away, it is a clear sign that she is “IMAGINING” in her mind that she already knows the man. When a woman feels sexual attraction tight away, it is clearly a warning signal.

    Shivers. This feels true for me. The boredom I feel with a normal, “nice” guy is hard to get past.

    Circular date, circular date, circular date.

    Three men. Not one, not two, but three (rolling the Rs). Hehe!

  153.  #153Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I like twisted humor. I don’t consider it disrespect because I mean no disrespect. It’s just funny.

    I actually have more respect for men than the average woman. I just learned this sick style of humor from Kenny and after ten years, it kinda rubs off! LOL! I know, I know, you weren’t talking to me.

    I like that line about a man you can treat like a doll, too. That’s largely how Ryan was. I didn’t know what to do with it. I know now, but it took me too long for Rori’s principles to sink in. Maybe I will get another chance.

    Or maybe Bill will fill my world.

  154.  #154Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    I want to have sex with lots of men I see because I have a high libido. Oh, that’s right, I have now officially posted my last name!

    Dan, did you receive our wedding invitation?

  155.  #155Lucy on July 13, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Yeah, that warning about sexual attraction doesn’t really hold true for me.

    Christian Carter sent an email recently that shed a different light on that “nice guy boredom” — but I can’t find it. It really rang true for me and helped me feel better about the way I am and made me feel that I am HEALTHIER than I had thought!

  156.  #156Alicia on July 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Hi Shannon… and Lucy

    I have been with several guys based on looks and a roll in the hay.. only to find out later we had no a lot in common.. (because I assumed or “imagined” they would be different) or there was a style about their personality that was not as fulfilling to me and I was just turned off later.

    It’s not so much a warning but…. it specifically from a book for women who are Starting Over.. after a break up, divorce or death.. so most of us know a rebound fling isn’t lasting… and his point is to date around not sleep around and connect to receiving..

    A lot like what Rori says about CD’ing…

    You can’t deny if a guy is hot or not.. but, the point she has made is most girls start leaning forward.. so between Rori and John Gray it all just confirmed what imaginary, leaning forward, dating and CD’ing receiving all have their special place.


  157.  #157Alicia on July 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Thanks Brenda 🙂

  158.  #158Dan_Brodribb on July 13, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    “Dan: I would feel weird calling my man “the girl”. I don’t want to feel disrespectful. I wouldn’t like it anymore than I would like to be called “the boy” just because I want to drive the car or pay for our meal, etc. I would feel flattered that my guy saves texts I’ve sent him. What do you think?”

    I think it says wonderful things about you that showing respect is important to you. And it CAN be a touchy subject for guys to have their masculinity questioned (or for women to have their femininity challenged).

    For me, it depends a lot on who’s calling me “the girl.” I trust my girlfriend and her feelings towards me, so I take it as good-natured teasing.

    Even if someone teases me and I find myself taking it personally, sometimes that’s good for me because it lets me know where my sensitive spots are. I sometimes need lessons in not taking things personally, so I’m grateful when they’re offered to me free of charge ;).

    I’m comfortable with who I and I like my life and the way I conduct it. If other people want to call it this or that, that’s their own business. I just call it “being me.”

  159.  #159Laughing goddess on July 13, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Lucy: it would feel good to hear CC’s perspective on boredom with nice guys. I’m feeling challenged by this issue right now.

  160.  #160Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Dan, did you get the pink shirt and matching polka-dotted tie I sent you as a wedding gift with our wedding invitation? I was just afraid you’d forget. Our special date is coming up. You will be able to attend, won’t you? I would feel sad to to marry you without you being there. What do you think?

  161.  #161Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Here’s Brenda’s perspective on dating boring nice guys. I have always liked wild, exciting men. When I was slender in the 90’s, a boring, nice man came into my life, Dennis. My Mom was so excited that for once a “decent” man was going to date her daughter!

    On our first date, we played boring tennis.
    On our second date, we went to a boring movie.
    On our third date, we went to a boring carnival. Everytime I tried to crack a joke, he didn’t even smile, much less make an attempt at humor.
    On our fourth date, I accompanied him to his friend’s wedding, who was an acquaintance to me from childhood. During the reception, he pretty much ignored me. I made a few attempts to start a conversation, and he just grunted like a caveman. Then when the meal was done, he got up and started networking for his business, completely ignoring me.

    I think that was the day I started to overeat again. I remember buying two twinkie-type cakes on the way home. I promised myself I’d never date him again. Thank God he didn’t call.

    It was a while before I wanted to date a nice man again. Now where I’m at is I want a nice man who has an exciting life and a rich, deep, complex personality. But I want to be treated like I am near the center of his life (I want God at the very center of his life.)

    Oh, and Dan? I am breaking up with you. I overfunctioned, and you didn’t step up! LOL!

  162.  #162Apple Jacks on July 13, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Dan!

    Nice to hear a guy’s point of view for once. It feels refreshing! I also want to be clear here, a feminine energy guy really does not mean, a non-sensitive, non feeling guy. Any human being, men or women, who have no feeling are just brutes. And God help anyone who ends up with that. I happen to LOVE men who are senstive. The feminine energy just means men or women, who don’t really do anything as Rori says. They are accustomed to recieving, but not accustomed to giving, whatever that giving might be. There’s the difference. I’ve seen wonderful, sensitive and feeling men who are very nurturing and giving. That’s very sexy.

    Personally I LOVE it when a guy feels and I find guys who save romantic text messages and talk about their feelings the exact opposite of lame. In fact, the very ACT of them talking about deep feelings indicates to me, that this is masculine energy. That a guy feels and is DOING something about it, even if it’s just talking. An action, if you will. It’s not like the guy in the post who just probably feels but says or does nothing and it’s like….Huh???

    What I love about this whole concept is I CAN have my sensitive artist type guy I like so much and enjoy his feminine, nurturing traits, because I know THAT is the energy I want. What I love about this concept is that it’s not about liking or turning men into the John Wayne persona. It that’s what it was I would have run for the hills, as I don’t like that. In fact, I DESPISE that in all CAPS. I much prefer the sensitive, gentle men who loves and accepts his deep, wonderful, feelings because they ARE wonderful. The romantice, the empathetic, the caring, the nurturing…the REAL men. And it sounds like that’s EXACTLY what you are Dan and I’d be very happy if I met more guys like you. With that said, nice meeting ya!

  163.  #163Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Apple Jacks,

    I totally agree with everything you said, and you explained feelings in a man well.

    Kenny is totally masculine, and he’s totally old school, and he believes in protecting and providing for a woman. My favorite, most intimate moments with him were when he looked me in the eye and gushed on and on about his deep feelings for me, and how much I mean to him, and he had tears in his eyes.

    He regularly says I love you on the phone, and he ends every paragraph he writes with, “I love you!” or some variation of that, like adding one of the tens of nicknames he has for me!

    That’s masculine feeling without being feminine energy.

    But I like feminine energy, too, to an extent. Ryan had a lot of feminine energy but it made him easier to relate to. He just needs to find the right balance, and he will. He is working hard on himself, and I love him.

    I only have room in my heart for one…


  164.  #164Lucy on July 13, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Hey LG. I found the CC email. Here’s the part where he talks about that:


    Have you ever seen what it looks like when a
    man is shamelessly seeking the approval of a

    As he’s just getting to know her and he sees
    that she hasn’t completely made up her mind to
    want to be with him, what does he do?

    He buys her gifts.

    He calls her all the time.

    He offers to do favors and errands for her.

    All these are attempts to prove to her that
    he’s good enough to be with her or to get her
    attention. This is also known as the “really nice
    guy” approach.

    Women just never seem to quite “feel it” for
    the super nice guy. Not because of the gifts and
    flowers and favors, anyway.

    A guy can already be attractive AND do nice
    things. Agreed?… But doing nice things doesn’t
    MAKE a man more attractive.

    Instead of feeling attracted to a guy you
    weren’t too “into” at first, you start losing
    respect for him when he goes overboard and tries
    too hard with the calls, favors and gifts.

    You lose respect because you know you can
    CONTROL him.

    This isn’t conscious, either. It’s just how you
    feel, and feelings are pretty powerful forces.


    Ick. CC is right. And it feels GOOD to know that not feeling attracted to “nice guys” is actually HEALTHY. Who wants a man you can control??? I want a man who has a strong, healthy, self-respecting sense of who he is and can stay differentiated within a relationship. I want a man I can respect. And, as CC says, being “too nice” (at least when it comes from a wimpy place like he describes here) is a respect-killer and therefore an attraction-killer. (For me anyway.)

    I feel really really good learning this. It fits with everything else I have been learning about myself and men over the past few months.

    I like winker hottie a LOT. He is not too nice. He is a bit of a mystery. Self-confident. I cannot control him. I like that.

    He is the one who emailed me that he had been after me for so long, then when I emailed back — Nothing. Well, it’s a long story, but we’re communicating now and it’s ramping up — and he is fun and funny and genuine — and not blubbering all over me trying to get me to like him.

    Last night he called me “feisty” and he said, “I like that.” Good! And he is one who is feisty right back. I like that too. 🙂 I want a guy who can handle me!!!

  165.  #165Brenda on July 13, 2010 at 3:57 pm


    That’s awesome about how it’s going with winker man! And thanks for posting that from CC.

    I really like to watch the dynamics of the love interest in the movie, “Maid in Manhattan”. A senator accidentally thinks a maid is a rich hotel guest, and he pursues her.

    Altho she battles with her insecurities, the telling moment is when she advises another woman, “Make him WORK for it!”

    She doesn’t go belly up just because she’s a maid. And of course in the end, she is together with the senator!

  166.  #166joan on July 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Brenda & Sherry,
    Thanks for your replies. I haven’t been around because my back has really been bothering me. Sitting at the computer for any length of time makes things worse since this area is not ergonomic by any means. I tried to respond last night, but my DSL lost the connection when I hit the “submit” button, and naturally, I hadn’t copied the text before I submitted it. 🙁 Anyway, the “short answers” follow:

    Brenda –
    Yes, we’ve talked about the sexual situation many times over the past 17 years. His response is that it’s him and not me, but that doesn’t make me feel any less rejected.

    Marriage counseling as well as individual counseling for him was on the table a while ago, but then I lost my job and our insurance. The only reason I am still able to receive individual therapy right now is because my therapist offered to keep seeing me at an extremely reduced rate – less than what my co-pay had been when I had insurance! Apparently, he thinks that I REALLY NEED HELP! 😀

    Sherry –
    Thanks for sharing your personal insights regarding the anger/sex connection and also for the link to the blog article. I had previously read that article as well as many others regarding anger since I, too, believe that anger/frustration is a critical consideration. Unfortunately, from what I read, the articles still focus primarily on using Feeling Messages, and that just doesn’t feel like an option to me right now. I don’t feel equipped to handle what might erupt, especially without having a professional therapist for him to consult.

    Thanks, again. Hopefully, I’ll be able to hang around longer in the near future.

  167.  #167Brenda on July 14, 2010 at 7:16 am


    Hi, I’ve been wondering where you are. Sorry to hear you are having back pain. What is you try modified feeling messages:

    “I am so mad right now!”
    “I’m happy we’re spending some time together.”
    “I’m sad when I see stuff like that on the news.”

    How do you feel about that?

  168.  #168Laughing goddess on July 14, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Thanks for posting the article Lucy!

  169.  #169Lucy on July 14, 2010 at 10:57 am

    from Evan Marc Katz’s eletter:


    To be clear: my WIFE sets the tone with her generosity and emotional understanding. And I do everything in my power to give back in return.

    That’s what makes us work.

    So, if you’re reading this and thinking that you’re just like my wife – never complaining, never criticizing, always giving – and you’re STILL taken advantage of by the men you date, that just means that you need to CUT OFF THOSE MEN quicker.

    It’s not HIS fault he’s taking advantage of you. It’s YOUR fault for choosing him and staying with him, the same as it’s Paul’s fault for perpetually choosing selfish women over givers.

    It’s undeniable: the way to bring the best out of your boyfriend is to be a giver.



  170.  #170Siena on July 14, 2010 at 11:07 am

    ya Lucy, I read that this morning too. It’s subtle, but look at what he says is “giving” for the girl:

    “Yes, she’s Paul’s girlfriend, but she doesn’t make him feel sexy, doesn’t make him feel needed, and doesn’t make him feel safe. ”

    It’s those things – not gifts, phone calls, backrubs – that he’s talking about her giving.

    I had to reread it at first because I don’t want to be a giver. Maybe a give back-er, but not a giver.

  171.  #171Jennifer on July 14, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    So, Told my sister last night that I was thinking of taking a “man fast”. I seem to be spending a lot of time thinking about / focusing on men. And really, not getting that many dates for all my trouble. Maybe I just need a break to focus on “my” stuff.
    She says she doesn’t know what the issue is…our cousin is regular looking and has it going on with men.
    So, I don’t know what is the problem…but I feel like there’s too much focus on THEM.
    I want to pay attention to ME.

  172.  #172moli on July 14, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Hiya Jennifer

    I can recommend the ‘man fast’. I did exactly that. Focussed on myself. decided to take the summer off and just do what makes me happy. Guess what? 3 lovely genuine men asked me out in the same week! And I guess because I’m still focussing on me and my life I’m not giving them the too into them vibe.

    I have a great time when i see them, and they’re falling over themselves to take me out to dinner etc and have me all to themselves etc.

    Only problem now is that the more I do my thing the more keen they get. (Which scares me a bit – trigger – ok scares me a lot!!)

    Anyway either way, you get yourself happy and do what feels good 🙂


  173.  #173Rori Raye on July 14, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Hi Jennifer, Can’t wait to read all your comments…when you get really in tune with your anger and where it’s being triggered – you are going to rock!! (I think you do already) Love, Rori

  174.  #174Rori Raye on July 14, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    AmberS – Welcome, and thank you for the wonderful insight. Love, Rori

  175.  #175joan on July 14, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Nikita, your post #102 was not there when I was reading the other night. I was just scrolling through again tonight when I saw it. I’m guessing that posting the links caused your post to go to moderation? Thank you for that information, and I will check them out.

    Brenda, thanks for the additional suggestions in your post #167. One thing I’ve learned from using EFT is to be very conscious of the words I use with myself. I have no problem using “I am” when the feelings or thoughts are positive ones because I’d like them to stick around and eventually become part of my beliefs. However, when the feelings or thoughts are negative, I do prefer to use “I feel” or “I think” so that they have every opportunity to either morph or just pass through. I’d rather they didn’t get entrenched since I’ve already got a bumper crop of NVs and I don’t want to fertilize them!

    As for the word “mad”, I haven’t used that since I was a teenager. I remember someone expounding on “mad” as having connotations of either being insane or having a childish tantrum and that using the word “mad” would not generate the same respect/response as using “angry”.

    I do appreciate your persistence in helping me to find a way to baby step myself to using the Feeling Messages with hubby. I’d like to get there, but I don’t want to rush/force anything. I feel more tortoise than hare – however long it takes me, I’d like to win this race!

  176.  #176Nikita on July 14, 2010 at 8:14 pm


    You are correct, I spent some time in moderation.

  177.  #177Nikita on July 14, 2010 at 8:15 pm


    ” The ox is slow but the earth is patient ” 😉

  178.  #178NANCEEN on July 15, 2010 at 11:44 pm


    “Hi Rori,
    I have read your emails and yet I find myself in a situation that perplexes me. You see I have always set my boundaries, and always made the man pursue me, and don’t have problems attracting men until…

    On New Year’s I went to a club and I met the promotional manager. Right I way I liked him; he was attractive, reserved, sweet, and seemed genuine – qualities I like. At the end of the night, he gave me his card and asked me to call him – twice. He seemed shy; not aggressive. I liked that, but I had my boundaries, and decided not to call him.

    A month later I showed up there again, THIS IS A MILD RED FLAG. HE IS SUPPOSEDLY INTERESTED AND YET DOES NOT CALL FOR A MONTH? and he spent the entire night with me; he asked if I wanted kids, looked at me when I wasn’t, walked me to my car arm in arm – all the signs that you just feel when someone likes you and he was a gentleman too. UH MOST GUYS WONT RIP YOUR CLOTHES OFF THE FIRST TIME THEY GET NEAR YOU. When he texted me a week later to come to the club again that sat night for his birthday, I smoothly replied and told him that I would try to make it, and I showed up later.HE DID NOT ASK YOU FOR A DATE, HE MANIPULATED YOU TO COME OUT, LEAN TOWARD HIM. BUT, to my surprise, he behaved the exact opposite of the week before – he literally ignored me; it was as if I didn’t exist.MAJOR RED FLAG, FORGET IT, DO NOT GO BACK TO HIS GO SPOT,THERE IS NO $200.

    At one point he told me he liked me and wanted to make out with me (he was drunk);HUGE FLAG, HE IS DRUNK, SHOWING REAL MOTIVE AND NOT CARING ENOUGH WATCH BOOZE INTAKE I told him that I don’t do that in public, but that was the only time during the night that I saw him. UH SOME DATE At the end of the night when I was leaving, he finally approaches me. I was upset.WHY? BECAUSE YOU ARE DISAPOINTED YOU ARE PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO HIM BUT HE TURNED OUT TO BE MENTALLY UNATTRACTIVE He asked what was wrong and I said that last week he was a gentleman but that tonight he was a boy and I left. He did text me later and said, thanks for making this boy happy on his birthday. I never replied.WISH YOU HAD LEFT IT AT THAT AND GONE ON.

    Two weeks passed, and my hormones were dominating. GETTING FOOLED BY CHEMISTRY, I KNOW ITS TOUGH I texted him on the Saturday night that I was out (he works every Saturday) and I said it would be nice to see him after he finishes work GOING DOWNHIL HERE, YOU ARE CHASING HIM EVEN AFTER HE WAS RUDE AND DRUNK (2am). He then asked me to call him later that night (2am) so we could meet when he was done work. I didn’t call him and just went home instead. But he called and said he wanted to come by and so he did and so we slept together. BOOTY CALL, NO DATE, NO FLOWERS, NO DINNER YOU DESERVE MUCH BETTER, AGAIN YOU ARE ENJOYING THE PHYSICAL ATTRACTION BUT THAT IS ALL THERE IS I noticed that he wouldn’t take initiative in that dept.I found it odd cuz I am used to a man being aggressive and into me in that dept.YES AND YOU SHOULD ONLY BE WITH MEN THAT ARE INTO YOU AND DONT STAND THERE LIKE A GIRL EXPECTING YOU TO CHASE THEM.

    The next morning he told me to call me and I said that he should, BUT 4 days later he didn’t call so I did. AGAIN HE MANIPULATED YOU, YOU ARE STILL PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO HIM HOPING AN EMOTIONAL CONNNECTION HAPPENS, YES THAT IS NORMAL IT IS WONDERFUL BUT IT IS OBVIOUS IT WILL NOT, BY NOW YOU SHOULD REALIZE YOU LET YOUR BOUNDARIES BE BLOW TO BITS BY A PHYSICAL ATTRACTION, I AM CURIOUS DO YOU HAVE A BOUNDARY CALLED “I CAN RECOGNIZE AND RESIST A STRONG PHYSICAL ATTRACTION WHEN I SEE THE MAN IS NOT INTO ME. HONEY I KNOW ITS TOUGH!!! I LOVE CANDY TOO!!! I wanted to meet him for coffee to tell him how I felt about him YOU FEEL A STRONG PHYSICAL ATTRACTION AND A DEEP LONGING FOR IT TO BE EMOTIONAL AND THE FACT YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD AND ASK TELLS ME RIGHT THERE HE DOES NOT HAVE IT FOR YOU and find out what he was looking for SEX so that I could know whether I should just move on. we met for coffee only when I showed up there were 2 other people there. Now he is 33 and his buddy’s younger sister and BF were there. When he left for the bathroom, she happened to tell me that he has such a good heart, OF COURSE HE HAS ALWAYS TREATED HIS BUDDY’S SISTER WITH RESPECT AND COURTESY but is sensitive, shy, holds things in, and that she has never seen him with a girl MOST LIKELY BECAUSE HE SOUNDS EXTREMELY LAZY AND ENFEMINATE bcz she thinks that he was hurt in past WHEN THE GIRL IS RIGHT, HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT PAST HURTS, HE PURSUES HER. (He had mentioned that he hadn’t been in a relationship in about 8 years bcz his love left him for his bff cuz he had more money.HOW MUCH MORE MONEY, LIKE DONALD TRUMP MONEY? HE IS IN HIS PRIME IN HIS TWENTIES AND COULD NOT EVENTUALLY MOVE ON? SOUNDS LIKE HE IS STILL MAD AND WANTS TO MAKE ALL WOMEN IN HIS LIFE PAY FOR IT BY MAKING THEM CHASE HIM TO PROVE HE IS OKAY, WHICH HE AINT)

    During the course of the night, I felt like he liked me – the way his leg would brush mine, the way he would look at me. he offered to walk me 15 mins to the subway UH FRIENDS DO THAT AND WHEN A GUY WANTS TO GET IN YOUR PANTS HE WILL LOOK AT YOU AND TOUCH YOU at end of night and seemed to wait for me to kiss him AGAIN HERE HE IS BEING A GIRL WANTING YOU TO PURSUE HIM, UGH, ARENT YOU SICK OF THIS? BUT IT IS HARD WHEN THE PHYSICAL ATTRACTION IS OVERWHELMING, I HAVE BEEN THERE, but I did the cheek thing. 5 days later, I didn’t hear from him, so I called him, AGAIN YOU ARE CHASING, HOPING AGAINST HOPE THAT THIS AWESOME PHYSICAL ATTRACTION COULD BE COUPLED WITH FALLING IN LOVE, YES IT WOULD BE FABULOUS BUT IT IS NOT WITH HIM, YOU HAVE TO MOVE ON AND LET IT FADE AND HAVE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE but he didn’t answer; I left him a text saying that I tried to call him and asked if I caught him at the wrong time – guess what – no reply, and it has been 2 days.

  179.  #179Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:40 am

    What if your boundaries is expecting communication back when you send a text? And he is bad about respectfully sending a return text? And it is not his way of being rude it is just a boundary of his own?

  180.  #180Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:43 am

    I keep coming back to this!! Things are amazing when we are together and he has called me everyday but won’t answer a text (unless it is sexual…wince) and I feel I require to hear from him during the day. He didn’t like it when I didn’t text him one day yet he does it to me all the time!

  181.  #181Siena on July 16, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Melissa, I feel confused. Are you texting him in response to a text he sends you, or just initiating a text? Is this your husband? Or a guy you’re dating?

    Unless you feel 100% comfortable that your text will be warmly received by him (which it sound like it may not be), then I would say don’t initiate texts.

    If this is just a guy you’re dating, then it might be a good idea to CD so that you’re need for communication every day is met… if he can’t do it, some other guy(s) can.

    If this is your husband, you might try a feeling message,

    “I feel disconnected”
    him – what’s up?
    “I don’t want to go all day without talking to a man I love. What do you think?”

    How would that feel?

  182.  #182Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Siena, bless you for responding. I feel lost. This is a guy that I have been dating for 6 months minus 3 weeks where he dumped me for the very same reason. I approached it wrong at that time by making it an ultimatim. I have learned since that that is not the way to get things that you want or need. Quite the opposite. So I have some fears of saying anything about it again but then again, if it does scare him off again then I would know for sure that he is not worth my time. I do CD in a way and have lots of friends that I spend time with. This guy says he likes communication and says he doesn’t want me to feel insecure. I don’t feel insecure but it does bother me that he doesn’t want to have more contact. The other day he was feeling disconnected (while I was practicing leaning back) and called me and wanted to know if anything was wrong. He said that when he doesnt’ hear from me he doesn’t know if I am thinking about him. I told him that I felt the same way when I didn’t hear from him. About an hour later I text him and said “I like to feel connected. I felt better after we talked. You did too?” and he text me back “I really did”. So what’s the freaking problem here??? =)

  183.  #183Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    BUT I would feel good with sending him that text. I just needed the words. I have problems with that sometimes. Thank you so much.

  184.  #184Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    I did text him this morning telling him to stay cool today. He owns his own construction business and is working on a little lady’s house. No response though.

  185.  #185Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    “So what’s the freaking problem here??? =)”

    hmmm, methinks you both want to be pursued. Have you read the posts about “outgirling” a guy? Rori’s definition (found here might help too. 🙂

  186.  #186Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    “methinks you both want to be pursued.”

    I’m wondering if that may be the case with Winker Hottie.

    What do you think?

  187.  #187Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Why do I feel like Sigmund Freud today?

    Lucy, Winker Hottie might just be playin’. He might have a woman and do the Internet thing on the side. Plenty of men turn to Internet dating to boost their ego. Or it might be he’s focused on work, or he’s gay or… truth is, it doesn’t matter. If he’s not asking you out, he’s useless.

    I’ve got a couple of those in my back pocket (remember Frenchie!?… and there’s another one, an Italian who complains about once a month that we haven’t met… because HE HASN’T ASKED ME OUT!).

    Whatevs. Next!

  188.  #188Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm


    One way Rori worded it in one of her CD seminars:

    “I feel insecure sometimes when I go a whole day without hearing from you. It would make all my insecurities go away if I could just feel assured that everything is okay. What do you think?”

    I really liked what Siena told me once, “Give him the gift of missing you!” Siena really has a handle on leaning back. Rori talks about just going silent as a far more powerful and lasting means of bringing a man closer to you. Even tho I’ve used feeling messages about insecurity and such, I know she’s right when she says it all tends to make a man feel overwhelmed, and he tends to back off even more (unless he’s a keeper like Dorothea’s man! :-).

    So I think in the long term, outgirling him, like Siena said, is your best bet. That would look like not texting or calling him at all for a day…a few days…a few weeks…whatever it takes.

    Be busy developing your P.O.P. (Purpose On the Planet) and doing things YOU like for YOUR life…staying on your bridge. Then when he calls or texts, you have shifted your energy organically from stressing over why he hasn’t called to feeling full from within! And he texts, “What’s going on? Why haven’t I heard from you?” You have made room for him in the relationship, and now he is coming your direction, rather than you trying to convince him while he resists you coming towards him.

    “Oh, I’m just feeling happy painting here! And I have paint all over myself, and I’m not wearing any clothes!”


    “Oh, I’m just sitting out behind the house in my nightgown in the rain! I feel so sensual with this rain hitting my bare skin, and it would feel so good if I were in your arms right now!”

    These are just two examples of possible feeling messages if you helped your energy to shift. Now imagine being the man. See how much more inviting that would be than, “I feel bad you haven’t called!”

    If he’s at work, he’s probably sweating his butt off and just too busy to manage the phone right now!

  189.  #189Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:21 pm


    Why do you feel like Sigmund?

    I am feeling more and more like I GET IT!! I am parroting Rori’s stuff here cuz it helps me reinforce it in my in-process, missing-Ryan, can-barely-stand-to-not-call-him heart! Rori, is it all right with you if I write here what I’ve learned in your CD’s?

    You women are so wonderful! You are far more self-aware than the average woman, and I feel so supported, too!

  190.  #190Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    geez Brenda, if I have the handle on leaning back, you have the handle on the SEXIEST feeling messages in the world! Will you write a few more here so I can remember some and steal them when the time is right? I LOVE the ones you wrote here! tell me more! (hehehe)

  191.  #191Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:35 pm


    LOL! Thanks! I got the one about painting from Rori! It’s on her CD about Mia, if I remember correctly.

    Let’s see…

    I feel passion juice flowing thru my veins while I’m laying here all kinds of naked playing with my toy! It would feel so good to be getting a long, deep massage from you right now…in my Yoni!

    Ok, ok, now I’m overdoing it, as usual, right? 🙂

    I feel so relaxed right now floating around the pool in the moonlight, and I’m skinny-dipping! It would feel so good to splash you right now! What do you think?

    I feel so mesmerized by my arousal right now while I’m in the middle of writing the second chapter to my romance novel! It would feel so good if we could create chapter three together! What do you think?

    I feel so connected with my body right now while I’m taking a midnight, moonlight stroll…naked! It would feel so good if you were walking with your arm around me right now! What do you think?

    I feel so connected with you after just waking up from a most beautiful dream about us! I would feel even more connected if I could wake up in your arms! What do you think?

    I feel so relaxed just laying on the sofa thinking about our time together last night! I just want to hold on to that delicious, connected feeling forever! What do you think?

    I love it that my energy is starting to shift!

  192.  #192Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Siena, yeah it was just a thought that popped into my head when I read what you wrote here. No biggie. I haven’t been analyzing him. I keep my thoughts away from him for the most part. Outta sight, outta mind. He’s a cutie, though. 🙂

  193.  #193Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    LOL about the first one… I was like, “wow, she would say that!?” hehe

    I love the waking up from a dream one…

    I feel afraid that if I talk like that to him, our connection will turn into a solely sexual one. What are the odds of that happening I wonder?

  194.  #194Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Brenda you are stronger than I – I freaking caved to my compulsion and sent Family Guy the following – (I had had a message from him last week that intimated we would get together at the end of this week yet he didn’t follow-up with a specific time place etc.) so this is what I sent him an hour ago and I haven’t had a message back:

    I had a feeling we were going to see each other the end of this week and I was looking forward to it as it is so great being with you. So, I am feeling a little odd and like I’ve fallen off the list – I don’t like to misunderstand. What are your thoughts?

    Interestingly I feel good about the note because whatever he does with it will tell me where I stand with him. If I don’t hear anything back, then clearly I am off his list; if he has a list of excuses, then he has a list of excuses and I am on the B list and then I can decide if I want to be on a B list; if he says lets get together tomorrow – then I am on the B list and I can decide – because I wasn’t important enough to drop a quickie note during the week. All in all, I have learned a lot even though I fully know I leaned over freaking flat. I need to get better at this….

  195.  #195Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Brenda even I would lean right into you…you are amazing!

  196.  #196Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Lizzie, I like your feeling message to him!

    One of Rori’s tools is to experiment, and see how it feels… so that’s what you did! You go girl!

  197.  #197Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Well, since he popped into my head, I decided to listen again to his new song that he sent me. Wanna hear it anyone?

  198.  #198Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 12:56 pm


    I like your feeling message to him, too, and I think it was well-placed. You weren’t sending your 100th text of the day…hehehe! As this errant Siren has been known to do in the past! LOL!

    Thanks for the kudos! I love to flirt! I went from being a total wall flower in my 20s to really out there and promiscuous for a while. So I know that part of me, and it’s almost like I becum a different woman!

    But I am really fascinated with finding this in-between place you all have been coaching me on, to lean back in convo rather than trying to be funny, smart, or clever. I like that. I did it yesterday.

    I was talking to Bill about our document project, standing next to him while he sat at his desk. I sensed his male enjoyment of my boobies right up close and personal near his face! I didn’t flaunt it. I just stood at a normal distance. But I felt good about being a woman, and that sense told me he was feeling good about being a man at that moment! I didn’t flirt a bit. I just talked about the project. I felt happy that I wore my turquiose underwire bra tho, lift those sisters up high like they’re floating on water! Hehehe!

  199.  #199Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    OK I just got a really nice informative message back from him and I would like to write a nice positive I understand message back – help!

    how does this sound – Brenda I need you …. NEED you…

    Thanks for your note – my feeling of dropping off the list has gone poof! I really do understand your life circumstances more than you may ever know. The little connection I have with you feels really nice and I ‘d like to hold on to that. I’d like to know if it is ok for us to keep in touch with the occasional note over the next little while, just helps me feel the life of the little connection.

    I donno – help!

  200.  #200Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Wow Lucy! I’m in love with him!! Geez, what an incredibly beautiful, sensual song! I would definitely need to put that song away and never listen to it if he was on my CD list. I would seriously not be able to keep my hands off of him or keep myself from chasing him. It’s magnetic!

  201.  #201Siena on July 16, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Lizzie, can you post his message?

  202.  #202Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Here it is Siena, & Brenda – he has special needs kids so when he is with kids he can’t do anything else and I know he is short staffed at work and has family obligations – so I know he is juggling big time.

    Well, your first guess was a pretty good one. Have been swamped at work and swamped at home. Just got off a 10 day stint with the kids which was fun but didn’t help the work situation. Probably why I’m the only one still here on a Friday afternoon!. The tiny little windows that have been left open have been filled with friends and family. Wish it were different but right now it’s not. Would love to see you again……head out on the links and see if my game has improved any. Right now, though, I can’t commit to anything. Hope you understand.

  203.  #203Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Yes, Siena! That’s exactly how I feel! It feels great that you empathize with my situation! When he first sent it, I actually felt afraid to listen to it the first time, because I just KNEW it was gonna be like that! It was actually even MORE magnetic than I expected.

    But I learned my lesson with TN man: don’t fall in love until/unless the guy does.

    Winker hottie is testing that to the max!!!

  204.  #204Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    hmmm, Lizzie, I’m glad you posted his note!

    So here’s my take… a Siren isn’t nice or understanding.

    Your response to him would put you squarely in friendszone and appears as if you are chasing.

    What is it that you are TRULY feeling about his message? If a man I cared about wrote that, here’s what I would feel (and then I would decide whether he was worth me saying this to him)

    Oh, that feels bad. No, I don’t feel understanding, but I respect your decision to stay away.

    … and THEN I would go get a huge frozen yogurt (yum!) or something that makes me feel wonderful.

  205.  #205Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:10 pm


    I feel honored that you asked ME! Thanks! I really am just parroting Rori’s concepts. Siena is far more qualified for good feeling messages, along with other Sirens, like Daria and Shannon especially. And it’s not helping that I’ve shifted to a goofy mood! Let me give it a shot…

    I feel so happy to hear from you! I feel totally compassionate about your heavy-duty responsibilites in your life. I want you to know I will be fine, and I’ll surround myself with precious memories of special moments we have spent. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family!

  206.  #206Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    yeah Lucy, he’s not playing fair!

    Come to think about it, his song is the equivalent of a type of feeling message like what Brenda posted on this thread earlier. Sooooo not fair, but look what it did – not only to you, but to me who doesn’t know the guy from Adam’s housecat!!

    Okay, mind made up. Next time #1CD contacts me, I’m gonna have a Brenda-ish feeling message ready.

    muwhahahaha (evil laugh)

  207.  #207Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Lucy, I love the song, too! His voice is so melifluous, and the words are so romantic!


    I feel disappointed that you are not more compassionate towards Lizzie’s man. I have cared for special needs children, and it is totally draining! I know I tend to overfunction, but my tendency would be to jump in there with him and help! Then we could spend time together while cleaning up chewed-crayon vomit and smeared feces from the inside of shoes. How do you feel about that?

  208.  #208Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm


    Thank you! I feel so good that you like my feeling messages. I feel insecure, tho, and kinda bad, that you might not like my last one, to you. I value feeling accepted, and I don’t want to feel rejected by you. So I hesitated to say it.

  209.  #209Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I’m sweltering here in my office in a wife beater and cut offs. It’s hot and humid… hmmmm… crafting feeling message… (and I feel embarrassed hehehe!)

  210.  #210Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:19 pm


    What on earth is a wife beater?? No AC?

    Sink into the feelings of embarrassment. I enjoy just feeling in touch with my sexuality. With the right person, you should be able to talk about sex like mashed potatoes and gravy.

    From all I know of you, I have a feeling you really need some form of a rite of passage to enter more deeply and acceptingly into your sexuality.

    I think I went too far in the past, but I am grateful to Kenny for one thing, and that is coaching me thru the rites of passage of feeling comfortable with my sexuality and nakedness.

  211.  #211Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    No Brenda, I don’t reject you! I am also compassionate for Lizzie’s guy’s situation. But also, he’s making excuses. Even if they’re good ones. And he didn’t ask her to help. He told her that golf was more important than seeing her and that he couldn’t commit (ie I’ll let you know when/if I want to see you again).

    If he had said all of what he said (without the last 4 sentences) and ended with, “I’d love to talk to you about this over dinner, when are you free”, then I’d feel differently.

    I feel bad writing it like this because I don’t want to hurt Lizzie… but that’s how I read his message.

  212.  #212Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Haha, yeah, definitely not playing fair! The great thing, though, is that he provides competition to keep TN man from stealing center stage in my thoughts/heart/body/soul.

  213.  #213Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:20 pm


    Another thing I just remembered from CC and RR relationship CDs is that a man’s first line of commitment goes with HIS P.O.P., which is most typically his work and livelihood. This man has been wrapped up with both work AND an unusual level of care for his children.

  214.  #214Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    “From all I know of you, I have a feeling you really need some form of a rite of passage to enter more deeply and acceptingly into your sexuality.”

    Ummm, yep! You got it! You def have me pegged!

    A wife beater is a white tank top worn on a sweltering hot day because it’s too hot to wear anything else.

  215.  #215Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    …and no silly Bren. We Southern Californians who live near the beach don’t have AC! That’s unheard of! (hehe)

  216.  #216Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Wasn’t he saying he would love to play golf with Lizzie, but doesn’t have time right now?

  217.  #217Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    OH Brenda you are hillarious! I can work with that. And to Siena point – frozen yogurt and all – I am feeling relieved, assured, compassionate and at peace. Him saying he wants to play golf is good becuse it is a long set of hours together, tells me that he also enjoyed playing with me – we play about the same level so he dednt see it as a competition (bou energy) and that it is not all about sex – this is an all good note. When we met, we made it clear that we each were not looking for a serious relationship because our families and work are at very demanding stages. We agreed that it was all about how we feel together. I am OK with this and will also continue to CD – I have signed up for a thing that is like speed dating but is a dinner format with 3 men 3 women.

  218.  #218Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I meant to add that therefore we need to be his fan club when HIS P.O.P. is temporarily dominating his life.

    At least for me, I always played best when I was defense. I did it in soccor, volleyball, etc. I was a lifeguard, and I was right there when I needed to buoy up a person who was drowning. He’s drowning right now.

    I could so picture myself as a pastor’s wife! I’d play defense and hand out notes, greet people while my husband was busy greeting other people, organize visual aids for his sermon, whatever he needed. Oh, that would be my dream life!

  219.  #219Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    oh Lucy, you’re right. I thought he said, “I would love to see you again but right now I have to play golf”.

    What he actually wrote is much nicer, and with Lizzie’s explanation of how they agreed they weren’t looking for anything serious, it makes more sense.

    Hello trigger! See how my own experiences made me read that a different way!?

  220.  #220Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    To me, reasons and excuses are two different things. I raised a special needs child, and it’s definitely a reason.

  221.  #221Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Silly Siena,

    If you’re sweltering in your wife beater, then get an air conditioner!

    I see your point about Lizzie’s man. However, now that I read her clarification that they set boundaries in the relationship about busy family lives, then I think he’s all right.

    Here is a variation on my suggested feeling message:

    “Family Guy, it would feel so good to assist you in your productivity at both work and home. I want to sit under your desk and keep you energized, then go home with you and hold your Lingam from behind while you care for your kids. Then we could have a happy ending to our day! What do you think?”

  222.  #222Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Yeah, Siena, that would have felt really bad if he said he can’t see her cuz he’s gonna go play golf.

  223.  #223Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    yep, I retract my earlier message. I thought he had chosen to play golf INSTEAD of see Lizzie. My bad 🙁 It was the golf thing that got me…

  224.  #224Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    So we’re all on the same page, except I want to be sure you all know I am totally joking about that last feeling message!

    I want to go to the beach! I don’t want to be at work!

  225.  #225Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:31 pm


    It’s cool. Or, should I say, I’M cool. You’re sitting there sweltering because you don’t want to be silly and invest in an air conditioner! (**evil grin!**)

  226.  #226Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Brenda, it’s gonna take more than an air conditioner to cool YOU down, girl!!!!

  227.  #227Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Get it? Productivity? As in REproductivity? Oh, I’m so funny!

  228.  #228Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:32 pm


    Did you ever see Moulin Rouge?

  229.  #229Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    they don’t SELL AC around here! I guess I could go inland and find one there… but that would mean getting in the car and onto the sweltering hot LA freeway… not worth it. But I do think I’ll go for some fro yo!

  230.  #230Siena on July 16, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Brenda, yes re Moulin Rouge…

    BTW, what sort of rite of passage do you think I need? I can’t even imagine what that would be? (I’m being totally serious here)

  231.  #231Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Okay, a NEW 25 year old just asked me out for this weekend in his first email to me.

    This is ridiculous.

  232.  #232Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Lizzie: I agree with Siena. When I read “The tiny little windows that have been left open have been filled with friends and family”, my mind said – Ouch – I guess I’m not included on your friend list.

    No. I would not respond back to him with a “nice” message. My message back (if I sent anything at all) would be…

    Hmmm… I don’t feel understanding but I respect your decision to stay away (at first I wrote “fill your tiny windows with friends and family” but that sounded like drama).

    I wouldn’t even ask “what do you think?” because I don’t care. If he’s written me off, he’s useless to me.

  233.  #233Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:37 pm


    They keep cuming at ya cuz you haven’t gotten the message yet!!!

    Which is…


    Just kidding! No, for real, that’s TOO young, I agree! But fun for feeling message practice, no?

  234.  #234Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    On our 4th date we talked about how the summer was going to play out and I felt at the time, that most likely I wouldn’t see him til September! Too funny. Yes his POP is significant for this summer. Interestingly he has the kids 50% of the time – I find this amazing given his work schedule and that one child needs 100% constant care and has him awake all night – she has to be aspirated and turned over – and he has a demanding job. So I think his family and friends show up and “mother”. I really don’t want to be in that place. He is a sweetie of a guy, he really takes care of me when we are out together, we play golf well together, and he is a mind-blowing lover – so I am not really ready to pack it in on him – I want the vibe to continue to be positive. AND I am going to continue to CD. I also have an extremely demanding life. One that scares the daylights out of men and has them running rapidly in a different direction. I rarely get past date #2! It is awful!! And when I ask I get things like:
    – well if it were just you and your son, that would work but your daughter….
    – your daughter is a competitive swimmer – that is really demanding! do you realize what you are sacrificing for her???!!!
    – you are self-employed – you work all the time!!!
    So, this guy hasn’t run away, he is just like me and when our circles intersect, it is fabulous. I want to keep that.

  235.  #235Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:40 pm


    That registered, too, with me. I think I recall Lizzie saying he lives about 2 hours away…is that accurate? That was the reason I excused him, because the point I took was they were TINY windows, as in, just an hour or two here and there. A two hour drive would entail 6-8 hrs minimum.

    How do you feel about that, Shannon? Lizzie, what is the driving distance?

  236.  #236Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Haha! Ya’ll are way ahead of me. I start reading and writing and in between ya’ll have written five million posts. Oh well. My rose colored glasses did not like the tiny little windows comment. And I’ve got toddler twin boys who take a ton of time and energy. (It’s not special needs but needs are needs.) He’s got to be kidding that he doesn’t WANT time to get away and relax with someone. I call B.S. 🙂 Even in those brutal newborn stages, I MADE time to relax and get away.

  237.  #237Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Lizzie: I totally hear ya and if that’s what you want, then by all means, I would not rock the boat. I wouldn’t be rowing but I wouldn’t rock the boat.

    Brenda: The distance just feels like an excuse. Doesn’t matter to me if that’s what he’s dealing with. I feel lonely and disconnected and I want to spend time having fun. If he’s not here in front of me or at a minimum showing me he would love to be here but truly can’t (as in he’s in the hospital recovering from a shark attack), then it don’t matta one iota. 🙂

    And ya’ll need to cool it with all this sex talk. I am frustrated! And of course, would you believe I’m going out with Mr. Fab Kisser again? LOL! He’s staying in the fight. Hehe!

  238.  #238Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:46 pm


    Rites of Passage…

    I am not saying you have to, or even should, do it here…but are you comfortable to talk with a girlfriend out loud or in writing using words like, “pussy; breasts; titties; tits; cunt; cock; dick; ass; or at least euphemisms like nani, yoni, lingam, weiner?” And you don’t even need to answer my questions here. I am giving you things to think about, and I don’t know how you will respond. You are welcome to respond to me in private if and only if you want to.

    How do you feel when you hear a dirty joke if it is told to you by a man to whom you feel open and attracted?

    How did you feel in the bedroom scene of Moulin Rouge when Nicole rolled on the bed saying, “Naughty! Naughty!”

    What I am getting at is to know, first of all, if you feel comfortable to TALK about sex.

    I want to be sensitive to you and not answer that lightly, because it has everything to do with your identity. You sound fascinated but a little bit scared of sex. If you want me to take this to email, just say the word.

  239.  #239Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Oh girls!! Thank you! Brenda girl, you helped me loads on your post back. You girls are being VERY naughty today! =) Wish I could join in but feel a little groggy from a nap. Siena, you could be right about him wanting to be chased also. Either one of you could be right. I guess that is my confusion. I am going to go back and read what you both wrote and process it and think about it and then decide. I feel I am getting close and closer to some peace with this inside myself and that, I see now, it what I was truely looking for. I can’t express my thanks enough!! I wish I could hug you both!!!

  240.  #240Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Ok sirens – you have me laughing so hard – being under his desk Brenda!!! too funny! I have some ideas, I will put something together and won’t lean over and tell him to meet me for dinner – OK?

  241.  #241Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Forgot! Brenda!! Your sexy messages are smoking hot!! I feel like stealing a couple! What do you think???

  242.  #242Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Melissa, you are welcome!
    Lizzie, you are funny! Please let us know what you decide on!

    All, will you please give me a little feedback here? I have been emailing a man from Match who lives in Massachusetts, about a 5-6 hour drive. So I have cut him some major slack on meeting in person.

    I emailed him a bunch of photos, and I wrote a novel about who I am and what I am about. He has been emailing me about 2 weeks, and sending me “Good morning” emails every day. I am not all that interested at this point, but I am open to meeting him.

    I just got this message:

    Hello Brenda
    Thanks for the mail and i want you to know that i really like your emails and just know that your answers we great and lovely and can i please ask more questions?
    Did the questions help you to know more about me

    Please!! Will the interrogation ever end? That’s what I feel like saying. But do you think it’s time to employ the feeling messages about yo dude, it’s time we met? Ride or get off the horse!

  243.  #243Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 1:56 pm


    That’s what they’re there for! Steal away! 🙂 I have stolen a bunch of them from here, and I really appreciate the mix of everyone’s feedback and ideas! Enjoy!

    The most important thing, tho, is to stay on YOUR bridge! Be doing YOUR thing, so that when he calls, you really ARE doing something Sireny to tell him about!

  244.  #244Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Brenda, I have to say this in respose to your statement about him probably being at work sweating his butt off that, yes he probably is. BUT, it only takes 30 seconds or so to send a quick I’m thinking about you type message. I don’t feel that is asking too much. Maybe he feels secure enough not to have to do that. I DON’T KNOW!! UGH!!!

  245.  #245Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    ride baby ride, or get off the freeking horse you are too heavy to lug around and I am on the move baby….

  246.  #246Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Love that, Lizzie!!!!!

  247.  #247Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Aw, this is cute — email from a pof guy — “What does a frog say to catch the attention of a princess?”

  248.  #248Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:04 pm


    I proved that what Rori says is true. Yes, we WANT our man to be so into us that he spends 60 seconds texting us or whatever. But what DRAWS his energy isn’t our demanding it. It’s leaning back that draws it. If you overwhelm him, like I did Ryan, he will back only further away. Let him love you and care for you from his heart, not out of obligation.

    Matter of fact, I found that when Ryan and I DIDN’T text, our times together were richer. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    If he perceives you as demanding, or even convincing, he will resist more and more. He wants it to be his idea that he is contacting you. I am parroting Rori. These concepts I myself still struggle with.

  249.  #249Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Question, where is blogs on here I can read about outgirling?

  250.  #250Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Thank you again, Brenda. I guess I really do just need to “chill” in that area. I haven’t been overfunctioning in this area this time. If I don’t feel 100% fine with it then I just do nothing. But then I start thinking what if he is expecting to hear from me. It’s a vicious cycle in my head that I would like to stop. What do you think? Your answers are slowing the cycle. So appreciated!!!

  251.  #251Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I just noticed that I am feeling better about leaning back. Even if it does take days for him to contact me! I am more understanding about what you were saying, Brenda about the sexy feeling messges. Positive energy attracts positive energy.

  252.  #252Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:17 pm


    If he hasn’t contacted you, don’t contact him. If he is expecting you to, then use this:

    I dont feel comfortable initiating phone calls with men. I feel great when the man takes charge of all the calling.

    Siena gave the link for outgirling above on this thread.

  253.  #253Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Brenda, I feel good talking about sex for sure. Especially during it! I don’t think I have any hangups behind closed doors (or at least I haven’t found any yet).

    But where I DO feel embarrassed is sending a text or email in the middle of the day in response to a “how’s it going” type of message from him.

    I would like to get over that, because I’m pretty sure ANY man would like the type of messages you put on here and I kinda DO want to be seen as a sex object (there, I said it).

    It’s funny, but the closer I get to someone, the fewer risks I take with that kind of stuff. hmmm… want to fix that…

  254.  #254Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Lucy!! He just so opened it up for you!! What a sweet thing for him to say and so true!!

  255.  #255Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm


    Overall, what I learned thru Ryan, who is very high in feminine energy, is that


  256.  #256Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Brenda, how about as a message to the email guy,

    “I’m feeling bored with all the getting-to-know you emails, and I feel worried that I’ll lose interest if we don’t meet… what do you think?”

    “I’m feeling bored with all the getting-to-know you emails, and I feel worried that I’ll lose interest if we don’t meet. I don’t want an email-only relationship. What do you think?”

  257.  #257Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Brenda, you said so little yet so much. That made everything click with me. Come hang out with me!!! Hahaha!! Keep the sexy messages coming! I clicked the link but it said it was not there.

  258.  #258Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Lucy, 25 year old=boy toy!! =)

  259.  #259Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:26 pm


    Thank you! I copied them for future use. I was feeling impatient so I went ahead and sent this one, which I stole from here previously:

    It feels nice to hear from you; I prefer we talk in human, what do you think?

    Melissa, you’re welcome! It feels good to be able to help someone on here to say thank you to all the people who have helped me on here! Pay it forward! 🙂

  260.  #260Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Alrightie here is what I sent –

    I feel lots of compassion for you and the current demands for your time and energy – I had actually felt it would be a miracle if the stars lined up for any date-time for us over the summer when we talked about our respective kid-plans and then you had all these work projects come through at the same time – been there. Have cancelled time-off. Dragged kids with me to out of country meetings – never do that again…It is a lot of juggling. Actually I feel tremendous appreciation for how you make a difference as a dad – it says a lot about you as a whole person. I also know how important the time is with your family and friends; it is nice to know they mean a lot to you and they will be there for you and help you when you need them – in my life the same has made such a difference to me as a solo mom. Right now I feel no need for any kind of commitment to anything from you; I am happy and assured that I have not fallen out of your life.

  261.  #261Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:28 pm


    It would feel so good to hang out with you, but I want a boy toy, not a girl toy! What do you think?

    LOL! Just kidding!

  262.  #262Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:30 pm


    Very nice! Well done! I still like the one about Mount Killamanjaro better, tho! 🙂

    Siena, if he doesn’t get it with the mild one I sent him, I will use one of yours! Grrr! I want to be a wife! I don’t want to date!

  263.  #263Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Brenda: I feel weird about that message. Mostly because I don’t get why guys ask if it’s okay to do something. Like Mr. Fab Kisser asks me if it’s okay to call. I’d rather he call me and find out. If I’m busy I won’t answer. It sounds like the “nice” thing to do but it feels weak. Damn I’m a bitch. LOL!

    I’d probably say to him based on your feelings…

    I feel interested in getting to know you. It would feel good to answer your questions in person. Sometimes email feels so impersonal. What do you think?

  264.  #264Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I friended a few of you on FB. I couldn’t tell who everyone was. So if you see me, friend me. I’ve got a stache too. 😉

    Dorothea: Did you say you had a stache in your pic? I didn’t see you. And that’s just funny we both have one!

  265.  #265Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    You know what? I’m done with dating too.

    And the truth is, I DO have some hangups about sex. And I don’t blame me for having them, because I always believed (cause I was taught) that sex belongs only within a marriage.

    And in the meantime that you’re supposed to distract yourself from sexy anything until such time as you are married.

    …so… tick tock… I spent a lot of time following that way of thinking…and…tick tock… time passed… no marriage… tick tock…

    So of course I’ve got hangups!

    And the truth ALSO is, I DO want to get rid of those hangups in a relationship where I’m going to be loved and cherished forever. So ya, done with dating.

  266.  #266Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm


    You familiar with Allana Pratt? She’s an associate of Rori. I first heard her as a guest speaker on one of Rori’s CDs. I had an introductory one-on-one with her yesterday, and she said the walls we have put up inside for survival, to protect us, can be transformed into veils of wisdom…hmmm, I forget what else…let me consult with my notes from our wonderful conversation! She was very deep!

    Maybe it’s time to start to experiment with #1 CD. Like you know how you told me to stop trying to be smart, clever, and funny? And that helped more than anything, cuz you’re right…maybe it’s time for you to start being sexy…and funny with it. Make it a game. Be looking at him across the table and roll your tongue around inside your cheek when no one else is looking. Or run your hands sensually up and down your entire torso sloooowwwly, either while you are dancing or just to flirt outrageously with him and tease the cum out of him!

    Probably evening and night would be the best time for the sexy feeling messages, like while you are both relaxed and thinking more along bedroom themes. Just be doing your thing…whatever way you express your femininity and sexiness…while you are alone, and then share it with him when he calls.

    In one CD, a seminar participant asked Rori, “Well, what if I’m not laying on the sofa relaxing when he calls? Then what?”

    Rori said, “That’s what voicemail is for! Call him back at your convenience, when you ARE laying down and relaxed.” 🙂

    Or, for the purposes of this conversation, call him back when you ARE laying flat on your back playing with your dildo! Or when you ARE skinny-dipping, etc.

    Remember? In Commitment Blueprint, Rori said we light his way to our heart with our feeling messages, and he leads us down OUR bridge.

    How do you feel about all that?

  267.  #267Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    oh… #1CD just emailed me, told me he missed me… should I respond with a Brenda feeling message!?

  268.  #268Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:41 pm


    Allana said to approach the broken, hurting places inside us with compassion, not condemnation, and that is how they are healed. And it goes hand-in-hand with everything Rori says!

  269.  #269Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Siena, Go for it! But durnit, don’t mention wearing a wife beater! Describe your pastel pink outfit with the see-through blouse fluttering in the breeze over your low-cut matching tank top! He he!

  270.  #270Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    okay, wow, opportunity knocks! We were writing at the same time, Bren. I’ll wait until I”m feeling sexy to write him back.

    Weheww! Experiment time! I feel good being a little adventurous and pushing my own boundaries!!

  271.  #271Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:44 pm


    Thanks! Yes, I feel weird about it too, and it doesn’t feel very masculine to ask if he can ask me more questions. But I’m glad he did, cuz no, it ain’t all right! Ride, Sal, ride!

    Thanks for your feeling message! I copied that one, also, for possible future use!

  272.  #272Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    I vote for the Brenda feeling message too!!! LOL

  273.  #273Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Oh, and women “dew”…we don’t “sweat”! LOL!

  274.  #274Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:45 pm


    You’re sweet! Nice to see your pic!

  275.  #275Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    LOL re #273 Bren! That is EXACTLY what my mother would say! EXACTLY! Or else she would say, “men sweat. women perspire.” Okay mom, whatever!

    Wife beaters are super sexy! But they’re sexiest when he’s LOOKING at you and you have no bra on. Saying I have one on without describing how my breasts look in them is not that sexy I guess… hehe

  276.  #276Lizzie on July 16, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I have a thing for sexy undies – bought a leopard bra and thong yesterday….I am thinking about a red leather bustier….

  277.  #277Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Shannon, I knew who you were immediately… I wrote on your wall 🙂

  278.  #278Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    I feel irritated that he doesn’t contact me during the day and sometimes not at all. I feel good with leaning back and less is more.
    Still looking for more info on outgirling.

  279.  #279Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I like it in the movie, “Miss Congeniality” when Miss Rhode Island shares guiltily that she stole red panties from the department store because her mother wouldn’t let her buy “s*tan’s panties”! 🙂

  280.  #280Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Siena: It feels so hot in here. if I’m going to sweat, I would feel happier to have a partner. 😉

    Start innocent. If your thoughts are sexual, the words will come across that way no matter what you say. You could write about the tulips in the front yard and come across as a diva if you mind is thinking SEX.

    Hehe. Dear goodness I need to get my mind out of the gutter. Mr. Fab Kisser here in 45 minutes. Ahhhh!

  281.  #281Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Is it wrong to use a feeling message that’s not true? I REALLY like your dream one Brenda… but I can’t lie about it. Maybe I should change it to DAYDREAM… that’s easy 🙂

    And Brenda, I’ve reread your Allana Pratt post 3 times or so… thanks for that! Digesting…

  282.  #282Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Melissa: If you click on the “directory” link on the right hand side, you can search for the word “outgirl”. I know there’s one titled that out there somewhere. Hope that helps!

    Off to shower for my date. And drink a glass of wine. Calm yourself Shannon. Calm down kitten. Grrrrr! LOL!

  283.  #283Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    He calls me a little naive, and says it’s sexy. I don’t think of myself as naive, but I guess I am (if even the Sirens here can see that I am!)

    I like to think of myself as a tough girl who’s been there/done that. Guess not hehe.

  284.  #284Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I like that Shannon!

    “I’m feeling hot. Can’t decide if it’s the weather or because I’ve been daydreaming about last weekend…”

    eh? sounds lame…

  285.  #285Siena on July 16, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    …and contrived…

  286.  #286Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm


    I will write more of my notes from Allana. I keep feeling astounded that I am being helpful here. I guess I really AM growing! I’m glad I can help!

    I think it’s wrong to use a feeling message that isn’t true. I think the man may sense the vibe isn’t sincere. I had a friend I was texting a few nights ago. She casually mentioned she was sitting in the rain in her nightgown, which was totally natural for her…I love sensual stuff like that too, and I’m a total water fanatic!

    Then while we were texting, her man started to text! She told him, and he did the thin fabric clinging to her aroused nipples visualization without her saying anything beyond her activity!

    But I do my best to stay organic and natural, like Rori says over and over. I really DO those things to nurture my sexuality, because I’ve been alone most of my life. I really HAVE gone for a midnight stroll in a full moon naked! It was one of the most self-actualized moments of my life, when I really got in touch with my identity! Then when you put it in a feeling message, it’s coming from some place real!

    I have intentionally stayed in bed and even been asleep when I knew Kenny was going to call because I wanted to be leaned back in my body and in my voice! He dropped our argument from our last convo and just focused on loving on me, purring back at me purring at him!

    I’m saying DO those sexy moments! Lay there watching a sexy movie with a dildo between your legs! Then take the call!

  287.  #287Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “He calls me a little naive, and says it’s sexy.”

    TN man said that about me, too. I’m not that naive, but I guess it’s all relative.

  288.  #288Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:03 pm


    I like your feeling message in 284! Yesss!

  289.  #289Simply Shannon on July 16, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Siena: Maybe rather than write a feeling message to him, just try writing a fantasy. Try writing what you see in your mind. You have those thoughts in your mind. It’s just a matter of putting the words in your mouth. Same thing as finding your feelings.

  290.  #290Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:06 pm


    I see you as a bit naive. I see you as vulnerable and fascinated in regards to sex. And that is a big turn-on for men. I hope you don’t let that touch of naivete be a negative…I think it’s beautiful.

    It is why I wanted to be gentle with you. I was so naive when I was with Arnold, my first man, that I didn’t even know how to express to him my interest in sexuality! He had a 9 year friendship with me and left feeling like I was a prude! He never even kissed me. I longed for him to kiss me and touch me and talk about sex. I just didn’t know how to express it.

  291.  #291Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    When I talk to a guy on the phone — which is rare, because I HATE the phone — I always go outside to my hiding place under the pine tree and rose of sharon (I have to crawl over a rock to get there), and I lie down on the bed of pine needles, surrounded by fallen rose of sharon petals, looking up at the sky between the swaying branches. Very peaceful, sensual, and PRIVATE. 🙂

  292.  #292Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:09 pm


    I like Shannon’s idea of writing it in a fantasy. You know the lovemaking scene I wrote out in the oral sex thread that got pulled? I originally wrote the first part of that with Ryan in mind, when we were still seeing each other. I read it to him the night after I wrote it, while we were at a nearly-empty diner. We ended out feeling each other under the table, and then we took it home and he touched my Yoni, etc. He really, really liked what I wrote, and he strongly encouraged me to write romance novels!

    Write the fantasy and then read it to your man!

  293.  #293Siena on July 16, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    ACK! I just sent the feeling message! Heart beating and LOL! I’m such a prude! LOL!

    Shannon, I love what you wrote in 289. I hate to feel bored, and this is one area that I’ve (hardly ever) explored, and so it feels good to know that I have an entire world to explore! Yay!

  294.  #294Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    “And the truth ALSO is, I DO want to get rid of those hangups in a relationship where I’m going to be loved and cherished forever. So ya, done with dating.”

    I SO agree with this. I’m not liking the idea of sex outside that kind of relationship any more. Yeah, I have my moments when I want it anyway… but in my heart of hearts, I want the whole thing.

  295.  #295Siena on July 16, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    oh wow, Brenda! That’s like… advanced! LOL (I”m cracking myself up). Baby steps for me… I couldn’t write out my fantasies at this point and read them to him… but I can work toward that!!

  296.  #296Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:14 pm


    You sent this one?

    “I’m feeling hot. Can’t decide if it’s the weather or because I’ve been daydreaming about last weekend…”

  297.  #297Siena on July 16, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    so he responded to my message right away, but just with a 🙂

    Yikes! that’s bad!


    he’s speechless.

    Yes, that’s what I’m going to believe is true. My feeling message removed all blood from his brain and directed it elsewhere, rendering him speechless….

  298.  #298Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:16 pm


    Ok, baby steps. When you eat your fro yo in front of him, make it a whole sexual ceremony! Make love to that fro yo with your tongue! 🙂

  299.  #299Siena on July 16, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    yes that one Bren…

  300.  #300Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    That’s good! Go Siena! I like how you described it rendering him speechless!

  301.  #301Siena on July 16, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Lucy, I love the description of you going out under the pine trees and near the roses! No wonder you attract men like Winker Hottie!

  302.  #302Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Thanks, Shannon! I will try that. DIVA SHANNON!! Have a great time on your date!

  303.  #303Daria on July 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    ok speaking of being open about sex…

    do you ladies think saying

    “I’m feeling horny and I want some of your head” is leaning forward?

    ack i feel gripped inside, I think it sounds like what an asshole jerk guy would write to a girl…


    im not an asshole jerk guy. and im not trying to “fluff it up” word wise either. (I think “head” sounds rather crass)

    I want a direct feeling message of what I’m feeling, so how about if i was feeling hot right then and was actually fantasizing about that

    Is saying something like that the same as initiating ??

    no ?


    what do i think?

    i think no with a touch of yes

    I feel confused and unsure on this topic

    I often feel shy and redfaced talking about sex, so I also speak very directly about it to open up my comfort level

  304.  #304Brenda on July 16, 2010 at 3:44 pm


    How about this:

    “I feel so aroused right now! It would feel so good to play a little! What do you think?”


    “I feel frisky! Wanna play with my kitty?”

  305.  #305Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Thanks, Siena!

    So I’m doing housework this evening, and guess what song is playing in my head??? Yep, “Taste of Honey” by Winker Hottie. I’m in trouble!!!!!!

  306.  #306Daria on July 16, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Brenda – I actually want to keep the wording. I don’t want to change the wording, I’m just wondering really if telling a guy that I feel craving of sex and I am desiring his sex right now is lean forward

  307.  #307Daria on July 16, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    While on the phone and he’s not actually present, I’m just feeling extremely “ON” and telling him how I’m feeling

  308.  #308Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Daria, I think it would technically be leaning forward (I read somewhere recently Rori saying something about telling him what you want is leaning forward) — but if you do it with a rockstar vibe — like, you’re not invested in his response at ALL — then it would not be a leaning forward vibe.

  309.  #309Daria on July 16, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Lucy – thanks. thats helpful to me, yeah i did it, I felt rejected, cuz he said he doesnt like to talk about oral sex on the phone, i don’t like that, I felt dissed, i told him I feel kinda mad, then i told him i’d talk to him later, yeah i got off the phone, i don’t want to have a man whos not totally into oral sex and i don’t want to feel uncomfortable sex talking

    i feel glad we actually talked about this me and him that is

  310.  #310Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Which guy was it, Daria?

  311.  #311Daria on July 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Not sure that I felt rejected or judgemental or both, I felt glad that he said about himself, and bad that that is not what I want in a man hmmm

  312.  #312Daria on July 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    It was Dman

  313.  #313Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    I understand that, Daria. I would feel the same way.

  314.  #314Erika Awakening on July 16, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    What Rori wrote about this guy really resonated with me …

    As I read the description of him, I feel so … turned off …

    You know the best-selling books on the planet? Beating the Bible, apparently … Harlequin-style romance novels.

    Why? Cuz most of us women want THAT man … the one who sweeps us off our feet.

    I stopped dating completely because I was meeting one “doesn’t stir any passion in me” man after another, and I ended up coaching them on dates because otherwise I’d be bored out of my mind … well, I don’t coach for free, so I simply stopped dating.

    Everyone said I was crazy. But I know better. Anyone you are meant to meet, you will meet. Even if you hide out in your apartment and do nothing. If God wants you to meet him, he’ll show up on the doorstep.

    So I did nothing, and then I felt an intuition to accept an invitation to guest coach at a bootcamp in Vegas …

    And a truly masculine man FOUND ME. I didn’t do anything. He has done everything.

    It feels wooooonderful 🙂


  315.  #315Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Uh-oh. I just listened to his song again…..

    Don’t fall, Lucy!!!!!!!!!!!

  316.  #316Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    So I leaned in and called my man. He didn’t answer and I didn’t leave a message. He called me back. He had been super busy with his business today and was going through some disappointment on someone he was relying on on another big job. Then I was feeling frustrated with myself. I am feeling upset because he doesn’t contact me during the day and then when I talk to him he has perfectly good reasons not to contact me during the day. Still feeling that it is unreasonable for him not to send a quick text during the day. We talked for a while and then he was getting off to unload his truck of work equipment. He said he would call me back. I will not initiate contact if he does and especially if he doesn’t. I am the AMAZING MEL. I can do this.

  317.  #317Lucy on July 16, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Hi Erika! I feel happy for you! Yep, I agree that it’s all in God’s hands. 🙂

  318.  #318Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Ok, so now he sends me a text saying “sorry baby. had a little nap and going to bed. sweet dreams” I will not answer as a boundary. I understand his being tired and at least I got a text but I will not answer. I will not answer? UGGGGHHHH!!!

  319.  #319Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    I will not answer.

  320.  #320Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Melissa, yuck, that feels icky! I’m so sorry!

    (So addicted to this blog today!)

    The reason why he did that is that you are leaning forward. If you lean wayyy back. I mean, like, no calls or texts (unless you’re responding to him) at ALL for a month, you won’t get that type of response from him again I bet.

    When he does contact you, you open your heart and speak in feeling messages.

    Leaning forward won’t get you the results you want.

    It just brings on bad behavior (like that) from men.

    They aren’t being bad, they’re just not feeling the attraction that compels them to come to us… using Rori’s tools is the way to stir up that attraction.

  321.  #321Erika Awakening on July 16, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Thanks, Lucy — I think what you said to Daria about rock star vibe is right.

    I told my guy “I don’t want a long distance relationship. I want a real relationship. The kind where you sleep in the same bed every night.”

    And he got a plane ticket to see me at my earliest opening.

    I’m gonna write a blog series about it.

    I feel very relaxed, turning this over to God 🙂

  322.  #322Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Siena! Ok, you helped open up my feelings! Thank you. I needed reinforcemet. Not good I know but it helps so much when I am so bad at identifing my feelings that I can get on here and have them voiced and then I can absorb that and learn. I DO feel yucky that he sent me a blow off text just because he is tired! That is not effort in my eyes!

  323.  #323Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    I don’t know a lot of Rori’s tool except for the leaning back tool, which I am using viciously right now! I can lean back. It’s so very difficult at times but I CAN do this.

  324.  #324Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    I like the what you told your guy Erika. I may use it to express myself also.

  325.  #325Erika Awakening on July 16, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    He said, “So now it’s real 🙂 see you in 2 weeks.”


  326.  #326Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Melissa, so now’s the time to learn to identify ALL those feelings (here on this blog) so that when he next contacts you, you will be able to authentically respond to him with what you’re feeling at the moment.

    I also hear that you’re feeling angry and exasperated, am I close to being right?

  327.  #327Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    AWESOME!!! Wooo hooooo! Great job!!

  328.  #328Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    yay Erika, so happy to see you back on the blog today! GREAT news about your guy!

    Can I ask how you turned it over to God? I used to do that all the time, and haven’t in a while… I’d feel interested to know if you’d like to share…

  329.  #329Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Yep Melissa, you TOTALLY can do this! The other major tool is to use feeling messages… and then there are probably dozens of others that are talked about on this blog to help get you to a happy, carefree, juicy, feminine feeling place…

  330.  #330Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Not angry. Exasperated, yes. Like I don’t matter to him, yes. Disappointed, disallusioned, unsatisfied, bored.

    Siena, you and Brenda have been my saviors today. Now I need to work on what to say when I do talk to him again.

  331.  #331Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Feeling messages I am still working on. I had to go to a website and print the rainbow of feelings for different situations as a reference. Weak, huh?

  332.  #332Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Awesome Melissa! Now can you find in your body where those feelings are?

    I do that when I’m here on the blog so that the next time those feelings come up for me, I can identify them in my body and it helps me recognize them.

    For instance, when I feel afraid or nervous, I feel a tightness in my throat. And I know that because I’ve hung out here and felt it.

    Then when I’m talking to my guy, and I start to feel a tightness in my throat, I can pretty easily identify it as nervousness or fear and say “I feel afraid” in the moment.

    …and of course he wants to protect me at that point.

    Or he’s curious (and fascinated maybe) and that opens up a convo about what’s going on with me.

    hehe I LOVE it!

  333.  #333Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    I am loving thinking about the happy, carefree, juicy, feminine feeling place. I wanna be there.

  334.  #334Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    No, not weak! Smart!!

  335.  #335Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    I am trying desperately to get to that place in my body where those feelings are. It’s like an echo but I can’t quite tell where they are coming from. Like I have to climb a wall to get to them. I WANT THIS SO BAD!!

  336.  #336Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    That’s what many of Rori’s tools are… getting to that feeling place and feeling it in your body. It’s there in you, you’ve just learned to cover it up because you thought you needed to do that to protect yourself – when the opposite is actually true.

  337.  #337Siena on July 16, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    …and not just you… me too!

  338.  #338dorothea on July 16, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    shannon, i changed my pic from the one with the stache (for the longest time) to one from last weekend but i am going to change it back so we can find each other

  339.  #339Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    And I get right now in this moment that it is not about what he is doing. It is about me getting to that place where I can identify my feelings. Ah ha!!! That’s amazingly, beautifully awesome in itself!!

  340.  #340Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Siena, I am soooo sending you cyber hugs right now!!! =) I am feeling light and free? right now. Your words are running over me like healing waters. So thankful. I LOVE this feeling. Embracing it!!!

  341.  #341Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    And now I am remembering one of the reasons we got back together…he couldn’t stand the thought of me spending time with another man. Hmmmmmm…..that thought feels empowering. Am I wrong in feeling that way? It is an interesting thought. I feel interested that I feel intrigued with him feeling that way. Time to absorb.

  342.  #342Siena on July 16, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Yay Melissa! That’s wonderful!! Feelings are NEVER wrong! You go Siren!

  343.  #343Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Whew!! This is great but a little bit of work for me!! Is it okay to actually tell him when he contacts me again that I felt brushed off by his text?

  344.  #344Melissa on July 16, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Feelings are never wrong….
    I’m a SIREN!!!! I am smiling big time!

  345.  #345Erika Awakening on July 16, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Hey Siena,

    Mmmmm … well … I used to feel so anxious when it felt like “nothing is happening.” Now, more and more, I embrace the emptiness. Unless I feel absolutely drawn to do something, I don’t do anything. For quite a while before this, I was in my “cocoon,” resting. Meditating.

    After all the tapping I’ve done, the past and the future matter less and less. There’s more and more empty space, and that’s PRESENCE.

    I don’t fill the empty space. I don’t go on dates anymore just to have something to do. I’m okay with staying home on Friday night and resting. I don’t go on eHarmony or Match. I trust.

    And then when a guy like this shows up, it all feels like an effortless, wonderful, intoxicating dance. The night I spent with him I could have laid in his arms forever, not thinking of the past or the future, except that I knew I had to catch a flight in the morning.

    Trusting that if he’s the one, there’s nothing I can do to mess it up (so it’s okay to be very clear about what I want and don’t want), and if he’s not the one, there’s nothing I can do to change it.

    Trusting in a larger plan that means I don’t have to control things. Trusting in a larger plan that allows me to ignore other people’s warnings and advice and trust intuition instead…. do things that seem “irrational” or “foolish” to other people, knowing that I’m doing the right thing.

    That resonate?

    Sleepy … 🙂

  346.  #346dorothea on July 16, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Melissa re: #341

    not wrong at all. spot on.

    rori tells us to say to men, in our heads, “i am the air you need to breathe”

  347.  #347Jane on July 17, 2010 at 12:30 am

    How about this experience that I had….

    So I’ve been practicing being magnetic, right? Because I’m so tierd of feminine energy men and realized that these guys are just willing to take whatever they can get.

    So this guy in one of my classes was taking the masculine role by talking to me, wanting to do something, setting a date, picking me up– doing all those things considered leaning forward and masculine. But on the first “date” he tells me in conversation that he doesnt have a job, was addicted to drugs for 15 years, cant get jobs because of his record… ( he has a record for stealing to support his habit), lives with his parent, etc. So at this point I was feeling like he bascially offering me he “privilage” of what… taking care of him in a way. He was basically saying that money is a problem for him… and then trying to cuddle with me on the couch. Even though he was being very assertive to be with me and see me…. I identify him as a feminine energy man who doesnt WANT to row the boat and also …..when I brought up my feelings with feeling messages– he was visibly very uncomfortable with me expressing my feelings and would say things like “well, life is hard and challenging” or something like that and didnt show the intrest or ability to be reassuring or supportive emotionally.

    If I hadnt been learning about the real difference in masculine and feminine people and the “rowing the row boat” thing— I could have been fooled!


  348.  #348Melissa on July 17, 2010 at 5:22 am

    Siena, got it. Thank you!
    Erika, I like what you have to say also. It helps me to think about embracing the silence.
    Jane, that feels so icky!!! How did it all end up?

  349.  #349Melissa on July 17, 2010 at 5:25 am

    I know he will come up with some excuse or some small comment. I will not tell him that it is ok. I don’t really know WHAT I will say but I will not say it is ok.

  350.  #350Melissa on July 17, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Ok, so I am leaning back, leaning back, leaning back and it is 11:20 here and I still have not heard from him. I have my speech ready and I am out of this house.

  351.  #351Erika Awakening on July 17, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Yeah, and then in silence, I practice relaxation, acceptance of the moment, and positive interpretations of everything … including a man’s silence.

    After he bought that plane ticket and made it real, we both needed to breathe. Silence is okay. The ego tries to fill silence because of its anxiety about nothingness, but … Silence is where God is, and all creativity, inspiration, and miracles come out of silence 🙂

  352.  #352Melissa on July 17, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Erika, oh yeah. I am embracing what you say here. Embracing the silence.

  353.  #353Siena on July 17, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Oh Erika, I love what you wrote here!

    One of my favorite quotes is, “Make time for the quiet moments because God whispers and the world is loud.”

    Yesterday, I was imagining that growing intimacy is like stretching a muscle. You stretch to the outer limit, hold it for a few moments, and then back off and let the muscle rest. If you go too far too fast, the muscle can tear and it can take months to heal. But next time you stretch again, you can go at least as far as you went last time, and maybe even a little further. But some days, you’re totally inflexible. That’s okay too, because the flexibility is still there, it just needs to be rediscovered.

  354.  #354Erika Awakening on July 17, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Siena, yeah, nice metaphor …

    I feel it’s a continuous erasing of fear, and each big step forward is going to bring a lot of new fears to the surface, which are then cleared (for me, by tapping and presence), thus expanding the comfort zone bit by bit …

    The ego sabotages this process by insisting on “doing” and trying to move things forward “logically” and with great anxiety …

    whereas what works feels more like allowing … and requires lots of comfort with silence and nothingness …

  355.  #355Renee on July 17, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Ok, sirens…this is totally off topic but I feel I want to share with someone and you all seem so kind and supportive…

    A little over a week ago, my (now former) best friend screwed me over big time and left me holding the bag on something that I’m now going to have to take her to court for. I feel so betrayed and angry, but the main thing I feel right now is fear — fear of having to face her in court because even though I’m in the right, she’s such a good con woman that I’m afraid she’ll talk her way out of the charges. Fear that she’ll level all kinds of false allegations against me in open court and fear that I’m going to end up looking like an idiot.

    This fear I feel deep in my stomach as a knot that I’m having trouble getting rid of. I’ve set up an appointment to go meet with a counselor next week, but I’m also concerned that the counselor will just want to dredge up all the old crap from childhood instead of helping me deal with issues from today (any of you who have been to therapy know how that can be).

    So this knot in the pit of my stomach is preventing me from feeling all sireny and at peace with the men I’m interacting with, and I’m afraid my underlying fear is going to come across in my communications with them…

    So do I just blow everyone off until I can manage to get this fear out (I’ve tried sinking into it, meditating and distracting myself with this blog, but it still lingers). One of the premises of Rori’s approach is that you need to be happy with your life as it is before you can be happy with someone else, and I’m not feeling all content and happy with my life right now…I no longer have a best friend and the only other person I’d consider a ‘close’ friend lives 3 hours away and I hardly ever see her, so my personal life outside of my dating life is fairly lacking right now. But if I give up all the dating, I’ll REALLY feel like a loser since I only have a couple of other nearby friends that I get together with on occasion, but I wouldn’t call them close…what do you think?

  356.  #356Renee on July 17, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Btw — just got my copy of Committment Blueprint and am watching DVD number 4 today — so far, I’m really enjoying it and can see where I definitely haven’t been much of an ‘invitation’ to most of the men I’ve dated…processing how I can use feeling messages more to be more open.

  357.  #357Melissa on July 17, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    I have my speech ready and I just called him and asked him to call me when he has a couple minutes. My heart is freaking RACING!! I feel scared. I am breathless. I can do this.

  358.  #358Jane on July 17, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    It did feel so icky!!!! And really after I realized that this guy was alot like the guys I’ve been in relationship with and my father… I did grieve about it. Like how did I attract that??? I didnt lean forward at all with this guy and he is a “taker” after all– BUT I found out really HOW MUCH HE WAS WILLING TO GIVE AND OR COULD GIVE and was able to see what and feel what was going on and KNOW what was happening. SO that part was awesome!!! To just not lean forward and to stay in my power and KEEP THE FOCUS ON ME.

    I feel the guy was perplexed by the whole thing… like okay —here’s your cue girl….do this now. And ya know I didnt. But the way it ended up was that he made some moves on me on couch and I then– told him that I was feeling uncomfortable with that. Then he basically got angry and left. I had told him before we ever did anything that I wasnt dating–because I’m in a healing process and was open to “getting to know each other and be friends.” So he was disrearding my boundaries and what I said I could offer anyway. He acted all hurt and when I see him now I can tell that he trys to make me feel guilty and is bascially a jerk.

    Thats what happened.

  359.  #359Simply Shannon on July 17, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Erika: Very happy to see you on the blog again!

    I’m really listening to God and doing as he’s directing me. (Well… sort of hedging my bets with Mr. Fab Kisser… been told “no he’s not the one” but still continuing to see him.)

    I’m actually surrendering this idea of soul mate. I feel unsure that God puts one special person on the planet for us and then divinely puts the two of us together. I think he gives all of us purpose (as Brenda would say “our purpose on the planet – P.O.P). And when those two purposes align to make a powerful team, that is when magic happen.

    This feels more open to me. That every man I meet could be “the one” if our paths /purposes align. Rather than believing I’m waiting for “the one” to show up to magically fit me.

  360.  #360sofie on July 17, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Feeling strong enough to surrender is good, but many have misperceptions about soulmates. Each of us are blessed with many soulmates in our earthly sojourns — whether best friends, siblings, a parent or a special teacher.

    Most think of a lover and life partner when they think of a soulmate, and this is the ideal, but even here most of us have more than one during our lifetimes, each meeting different needs and usually serving a specific purpose towards our growth at that time ….

    It all depends upon where we are on our path to Becoming at any given point on our respective timelines.

    There is no reason to be anxious about this, or to give up entirely, believing we will never intersect with The One, or that we have to “settle”. We have all had Him — The One — for that time and place and, God willing, we shall again.

    The world is uneasy. People are restless, anxious, searching for answers, comfort & connection. It seems so much easier to bail on a problematic relationship than to dig in and identify the source of the breach, to reconnect. Many of us feel it’s easier to cut the tethers and move on, start fresh with a clean green slate and new box of chalk. I, too, believed this when I left a 22 year marriage in Houston eleven years ago.

    It is possible to adapt, to grow and change together, each respecting the other’s growth and direction, supporting and encouraging. Thanks to Rori’s communication tools, we see possibilities.

    We are all resistant to change; this is human nature, but we need not fear change. We need to embrace it, like a lover.

  361.  #361Brenda on July 18, 2010 at 9:55 am


    You might be interested in this book by Derek Prince, “God Is a Matchmaker!” He met both of his wives supernaturally! It was pretty amazing. He was with the first one for 30 years, until she passed away, and then he found his second one. You can also find it on his website, Derek Prince dot com.

  362.  #362Brenda on July 18, 2010 at 9:57 am

    On the other hand, I really like what Siena told me. She said it isn’t about one man or a soul mate. It’s about finding a man who will step up and treat you like a princess. That isn’t an exact quote, but that’s the gist of what she said.