The 3 Biggest Mistakes Women Make When Trying to Attract a Man

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Hi – I’m just so jammed with preparing for my Love Scripts program this weekend…I got help! This is a great guest post by Patty Contenta – who you may have heard on my interview this month (my Interviews With Relationship Experts series):

The 3 Biggest Mistakes Women Make When Trying to Attract a Man by Patty Contenta

Through my research and personal experience, I’ve found 3 mistakes are responsible for women not being approached by men. The scary part is that this could be happening to You without knowing it.

Mistake #1: Standing With Your Legs Apart

A man likes to feel masculine, like he has mental and physical strength…regardless of his size.  The dominance that he tries to portray can be seen by the way he stands with his legs apart and chest lifted. His goal is to take up space to demonstrate power.

So, when a woman stands with her legs apart, she’s taking a dominant role. She’s taking the lead and a very masculine man will avoid you because you’re confronting his stature without saying a word.

I too have been in this same scenario where my need to be noticed for the smart, strong woman I am was coming out loud and clear for every man to see… yet no one approached me.

A man is naturally attracted to a playful woman that oozes sensuality…something he is clueless about. He wants to sense an air of invitation so that if he takes a chance to approach you…you won’t reject him on the spot.

Mistake #2: Arms and Elbows Out

Many women make the mistake to speak with their hands or stand with their elbows out. Now this may seem trivial but remember a man wants to feel welcomed if he decides to approach you. And when your arms are flailing…a man WILL keep his distance.

Being of Italian decent, speaking with my hands is a natural habit. In fact, it’s difficult for me to express myself without using my hands so I needed to make a conscious decision to slow down my speech so that my arms don’t take over. When my energy is high, my arms become active, when my energy is calm, my arms are relaxed.

Let me make this even clearer for you. One day I was dancing a rumba in front of my coach. I was giving it my all, when he suddenly stopped the music and asked me, “Patty, do you love yourself?” That statement caught me off guard. I responded with, “Well, yes…but why do you ask?” At this point he moved in closer to me and in a gentle voice said, “A woman that loves herself touches her body, caresses her skin. Her arms should NOT be flailing around to draw attention to herself. The less you do, the more attractive it is.” From that moment on my dancing style changed.

I got it! I understood how to create a sensual look on the dance floor and then apply it off the dance floor. It was magical!

Mistake #3: Leaning Forward

Many women make the mistake of making the first move, leaning in to get his attention. Picture a woman having a conversation with a man, her body leaning forward so all he sees is her forehead coming at him.  It’s not a pretty sight…it’s actually intimidating. It can literally feel like an interrogation instead of a dialogue.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a man move towards you and have him wanting to tell you things that are on his mind without you trying to pull it out?

It’s possible only if you lean back and relax into your chair. You see, when you keep your energy open by physically leaning back, he feels safe to speak. He relaxes into his own body, releases his tension and then can have a conversation from a calmer state. When anyone is feeling at ease, energy flows and our thoughts are more pure.

Wouldn’t it be nice to captivate a man with your wits, charm and feminine energy and never worry about feeling stuck with the one man that comes your way for fear that no one else will approach you?

Being aware of the signals your body language is sending is a key factor to being approachable. You can not not communicate…so why not transmit words like  “invitation, open, feminine”. These words are much more attractive to man than focus, drive and fearless.

The information in Patty’s website, and her “Sexy In Seconds” program is unusual, fresh, helpful, and confidence-building. I like “Tools” – meaning – something you can “DO” with your “boy” energy while you’re leaning back, listening, and being receptive in your “girl” energy – and Patty’s work is filled with Tools.  Her work is all about what we’re doing here – learning to “choose” a man instead of just take – as Patty says, “…the only one that’s available…”  You can find Patty here at www.SensualitySecrets.com.

Love, Rori

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1 Comments

  1.  #1Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Yea, I like being up here!

    SLV



  2.  #2Turtle Girl on November 4, 2010 at 11:28 am

    SLV-

    I was gonna steal your top of the world a few minutes ago but decided not to. lol…..xxoo



  3.  #3Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Me too – first time I’ve been anywhere near the top of a new thread. SLV, you win the prize again!!!



  4.  #4Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 11:31 am

    I feel really warm about Patti’s advice here. . I wave my hands around far too much . .

    Will practise these little tips on my date at the weekend – I’m especially curious about the idea of touching my body rather than waving my arms around.



  5.  #5Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 11:32 am

    @2 TG
    @3 Lorelei

    Awww, that’s so sweet of you…so I could have my little fun. 😀

    SLV



  6.  #6jacqueline on November 4, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Hello! Rori – I was hoping you were crazy busy and I see you are – and it sounds exciting! Hoping you have an amazingly successful weekend.

    And hello, everyone here! Lucy, thank you for acknowledging me getting what you were saying – that thread is impossible to type on! Smile….

    I was a part of a group of volunteers that went to visit people on the actual DAY of the holiday – Thanksgiving, Christmas – The Holiday Project, from the same people as The Hunger Project – and that’s what they said. Didn’t matter if you had a box wrapped up or NOT. YOU were the gift.

    This feels good – and even in the sense of continuing the Katarina convo. If we feel good with sex, and we freely give it, it’s our gift to give. And maybe it turns out really well, or maybe we feel burned and we decided “nope, not gonna do that again.” Then we make a rule for ourselves.

    If we have respect, everything else we do is a subset of that respect. And, hopefully we start with the same respect we give to anyone we would want to call friend. Male or female.

    There are differences, but there’s a lot of sameness in us all – to be acknowledged, to make a difference, to offer comfort, to offer solace, to experience fun and joy and connection. After these things are acknowledged, yeah, we chemically bond – and perhaps we bond differently.

    But men are wonderful beings! I highly value them…smile…and hey, my new boss is going to be a man, which is very cool. I can use some feeling messages maybe? More opportunity for interaction, observation and understanding.

    And….I like this post, and the author! But #2? I refuse to play small – even physically. If they can take up space so can I. And for me it’s worked fine – like if I’m at a bar, I’m leaning with my back to it and my arms out to my sides usually (don’t think I ever stand with my legs apart period?)…but open arms – very cool to initiating conversations. Or sitting with one arm across the chair next to me – yeah, it’s kind of guyish – but it’s also very open – men will just plop themselves right into that chair.

    And, yes! to not having to be the one 1/2 way across the table to hear them – but then to make it easier on them, I usually sit to their right, and totally physically lean back once I’m sure they can hear me.

    I figured that one out about 2 years ago – great advice.

    Happy day, everyone!

    and @ Meemee – I’ve been catching up with you, so sorry you’re having such a bad time of everything! Total breakdown usually leads to total breakthroughs, tho?? I’m hoping….

    and Renee – so proud of you for staying on your horse and sharing your jouney with us. xo to you!

    Jacqueline



  7.  #7jacqueline on November 4, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Lorelei – another date? What’s this #3 at least?! Good for you, that’s exciting. Touch your hair if you can’t think of anything else to do with your hands – guys like that…smile….and it’s safer than rubbing your cleavage. HAR HAR….

    I have read to gently touch their hand or arm to indicate interest; I find I do that with men and women pretty naturally.

    Anyway, good luck and happy smiles – wonderful forward movement, huh?

    J



  8.  #8Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 11:41 am

    I don’t agree that men are clueless about sensuality!!! No way! At least not the ones I am attracted to… I love a sensual man.



  9.  #9Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Speaking of “attraction” this morning I’ve been scouting over at POF. I saw this about POF “Serious Membership.” POF says:

    Upgrade to a Serious Membership!
    A serious membership is an optional paid membership available on POF. To be eligible to become a serious member, you must pass a psychology test measuring your integrity, sincerity and ability to form a relationship. The test is available HERE.

    What are the benefits of a Serious Membership?
    POF: As a Serious Member, you get a medallion on your profile that indicates your status to other users…

    Q: I took the test and it says I am unable to maintain a relationship.
    POF: Unfortunately the test cannot be retaken. The results will not be displayed on your profile for others to see…

    I see some problems here…First, I’m giggling about having a medallion to proclaim my seriousness. I’m serious! Unless the giggling signifies that I am not.

    Also what if I fail the test??? More giggling…it can’t be retaken! Does this mean I am marked for life? 😳

    Still surfing through the stuff on the POF site.

    What do you think?

    SLV
    “Sexy lady” voice



  10.  #10Renie on November 4, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Reposting this because I fear it will be lost in the shuffle of the other thread.

    Honey…to answer you. I’m not sure if I am in love with Stan. This is because I’ve gone through months of therapy, self-help, reading books, etc. and have come to the realization that I’ve never been in a healthy, mature, adult love relationship. My 2 marriages were both very codependent in nature. I myself am a recovering codependent. But I am finally to the point where I don’t “need” a man like I always have. I’m totally content with a man being the icing on the cake. And Stan is the first man I’ve dated on a regular basis since doing all this work on myself. I’m trying to pay attention to how I FEEL with him. And so far, I feel really good around him. I haven’t chased him whatsoever and he goes to great lengths to see me. He is thoughtful, romantic, and the physical chemistry between us is great! And one thing that really “did it” for me was last week I found out I got a job I really wanted and had some stiff competition for. He congratulated me, told me how proud he was of me repeatedly, and made me feel like the Queen of the Universe for landing this job! I’ve never, ever had a man (other than family) tell me he was proud of me. Needless to say, I’ve been with the wrong men! But the bottom line is….I’ve never been in a healthy romantic relationship. I’ve confused need, lust, passion, etc. for love in the past. I care a great deal about Stan and love being with him and always feel so good in his presence. I feel comfortable, and best of all….HE makes me feel good about myself. I’ve never experienced this before because I’ve spent my life chasing emotionally unavailable men until now. So this is all very new to me and I’m not sure if this is love because I’ve never felt the real thing.

    Here’s my original post…please help!

    Sirens, I need help!!! Help with a “power speech”, I guess. I’ve been seeing “Stan” for a couple of months now. We don’t live in the same town, so we only see each other on weekends and sometimes 1 night during the week. But he calls/txts me every day and we are in the area now where we have an implied date every weekend. About a month ago, he told me he thought he was falling in love with me. I didn’t say anything right away and he said “how do you feel about that?” I told him I thought it was a great thing, and I thought I could feel the same for him, and I wanted to continue to take things slow, etc. Since then, he hasn’t changed…still comes to me, still does all the ‘right’ things. But since that 1 time, he has never again mentioned that he loves me or thinks he’s falling for me. When we are together, I use my feeling statements…tell him I feel comfortable with him, how good I feel when we are together, how wonderful it feels to have his arms wrapped around me. And he responds wonderfully But now I’m feeling weird. I wonder if I made him feel slightly rejected with my response to his “I’m falling in love with you” comment since he’s never brought it up again. I don’t want this to become a comfortable “friend with benefits” type relationship. I feel like things are stalled. They were moving forward and progressing and ever since the love statement, it feels like we’ve been in a holding pattern. We are spending the entire weekend together starting tomorrow evening, and I’m thrilled! It’s been a few weeks since we’ve been able to do that. I need help with how to say to him what I’m feeling. Do I simply say what I said above…that I feel weird, stalled, etc. and don’t want a FWB? He has made it clear to me that’s he is exclusive with me. But I know exclusive doesn’t equal commitment. Help me out here, ladies! Thanks.



  11.  #11Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 11:58 am

    That’s really interesting, SLV!!! I wonder if you can take the test without paying. I bet I would test as “unable to maintain a relationship,” just because of my “I do what I want” attitude and sense of freedom.



  12.  #12Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Renie, it sure sounds like the real thing to me!!



  13.  #13Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I deleted all but four men from my Favorites on pof. And three of them I only kept bc I didn’t want them to feel bad.

    It feels good to have such a tiny favorites page.



  14.  #14Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @11 Lucy:

    I was wondering if anyone here had a POF “serious membership” and/or had taken the test. Details?

    SLV



  15.  #15Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Hehe, I just typed math dot com into my browser instead of match dot com. Freudian slip?



  16.  #16Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Total noob here; I don’t know what a “favorites” page does. I saw there were IM and what seems like regular e-mails and also games could be played….apparently not “relationship games” 😆 real games you could play with other users. Did you ever do any of those? Worth the time? Fun?

    SLV



  17.  #17Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Hi Jacqueline –

    yes this is # 3 live date – new man, CatMan via online site, due to cat in profile pic. Lebanese restaurant, Saturday evening.

    (Story of #2 on the thread about ‘Is he off-limits because he has a girlfriend?’ – This one was a geeky scientist, still single at 57, a very, very nervous, anxious guy, who wanted lots of reassurance, who after one date strongly hinted, no, suggested that MY failure to lean forward and tell him he could call me made his anxiety worse . . my feeling messages to no avail . . and I was really triggered by his subtle wish to correct and change my Siren’y behaviour, I was triggered big time. I do not want ongoing contact with a man who tries to change my behaviour to suit him . . and there was not enough interest for me to want to go on with feeling messages).

    Next! Who knows what it will actually be like live with CatMan? But I feel surprisingly relaxed and feminine in the lead-up, because he stepped up all the way. He wanted to meet to see what live contact is like – he is a “chemistry person” and finds emails “one-dimensional.” And this is with witty, fun and regular emails. I also find email just gets boring without a meet up, because it misses out on so many dimensions of the real person. So, at least I know he can spell!!

    And he’s suggested a nice place to meet, interesting food, is prepared to travel the 40 or 50 miles he’s going to have to in order to get here, no stuff about meeting halfway. He’s emailed and phoned to confirm . . and is phoning again, tomorrow, just to check I’m still OK about the arrangements.

    So this feels nice. I spent a bit of time worrying in my head about not, what if he’s another strange man, but what if he isn’t? What it it’s too soon for me – only 5 months since end of marriage, since feeling heavy about that . though not regretful. Feeling quite lonely and weepy some of the time.

    But CatMan seems pleasant, and kind of normal, so far, and prepared to be the man!! So I will lean back and let him. And I will touch my hair . .



  18.  #18Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Just looked on Patty’s website. I wish I know WHICH finger she is hinting is the best one to use to stroke one’s arm or neck with. Apparently one finger is better than the others for this.

    Guesses, anyone?!



  19.  #19Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    SLV #9 – I’m laughing and agog and very curious about POF’s test result saying someone is unable to maintain a relationship!! Maybe that’s how they screen out the psychos?? And keep them away from the Serious Membership Members??

    Frankly, they should display this result as a warning to others 🙂 “Goods not as stated – do not be misled.”

    However, I feel absolutely confident that you would get through to the Serious Members VIP lounge.

    I haven’t tried POF but maybe it would be worth a go at becoming a POF VIP?



  20.  #20Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    SLV, I never saw where you could play games on pof. I guess I missed that somehow. That site is kinda chaotic, but I feel at home there. 🙂 The favorites page is where you put men who you think are interesting, whether or not they have contacted you. Sometimes I put men on there just cuz I like their faces. hehe. But now I’ve cleared it out — four men left, three of whom I am not at all interested in, not even their faces, but I feel bad to remove them.



  21.  #21Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Lorelei, I just did a self-test on your question — apparently I use my middle finger. hehe. It happens naturally. Don’t know if it’s what she recommends though… would be interesting to find out…



  22.  #22Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Hehe. Lorelei, I googled “stroke neck with finger” and here’s what I got:

    http://schooloftantra.net/articles/genitalchakra/G-spot_massage3_stroke_Her_Sacred_Sector.htm



  23.  #23jacqueline on November 4, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Lorelei – well since there are plenty of fish…grin…yep, you can throw back the one’s not suited. Funny how “shy” guys can be so controlling, huh? I hate the “subtle” pressure – I’d rather someone just say – umm, could you just call me and encourage me? LOL…then I could say yes or no. Simple.

    Cat man does sounds good and the pacing also sound good, and I love a man that can spell…smile… – and you’re gonna have to do some wading and throwing back, so I hope you can find it exciting and baby stepping learning! I’m happy for you!

    I’d imagine it’s your first finger -or pointing finger? The effect would be weird with the middle one and the little one would make your hand look all turned funny!

    everyone, have a great day,

    J



  24.  #24Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Lucy – !!!! – *laughing*- perhaps not on the first date, hmmm?



  25.  #25Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    @19 Lorelei

    Thanks for your encouragement. I’m getting to know myself and will be “dating me” for several months. I’m gathering data for next year and to make myself comfortable with dating concepts.

    After some fun discussion last night on the blog I might be taking along an “imagined” — make that “visualized”–guy. Who knows where this could lead?

    Your date plans seem good news! Go and have fun. If you met online and he is traveling more than 40 miles, what distance did you set on your search parameters? Last night I was playing around with 25 miles and there were a lot of men! Of course, I don’t know what they might be like in real life… 😀

    SLV



  26.  #26jacqueline on November 4, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Lorelei – okay! research completed!

    Upper Body Self-Touch

    Gently touch your face. Start by tracing the jaw line left to right with your index finger to frame your face. Then with an upward stroke, switch to the middle finger and caress behind the ear. Continue with a downward stroke across the neck, over your clavicle, drawing your hand away before touching the upper breast. The last finger to leave is… You guessed it, the middle one.

    Wow, the woman is good!!! heee….and Lucy already has the moves – I love the idea of visually slowing down the music (ahem…it’s what stripper’s do) The site is very cool.

    Jacqueline



  27.  #27Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    @22: Lucy says:
    “Hehe. Lorelei, I googled “stroke neck with finger” and here’s what I got:
    http://schooloftantra.net/articles/genitalchakra/G-spot_massage3_stroke_Her_Sacred_Sector.htm

    Ooo, a new learning spot! I’ve been spending time with Dodson and Ross online. Righteous ladies! Do you watch their Friday videos? They have a YouTube channel. Their “How big is a big penis” vid is cool… 😀

    BTW, I naturally stroke my neck and collarbone when I’m talking to a guy, use my right pointer finger and/or whole hand .. .Gee, I hope this doesn’t signify something BAD… 😯

    SLV



  28.  #28Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    “….and Lucy already has the moves”

    Woohoo!

    Thanks for doing the research, Jacqueline. 😀



  29.  #29Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Does she say anything about touching your lips? I alternate btwn pointer and middle when touching my lips…



  30.  #30Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Ohhh….hmmm…. Remember I told you fb college guy guessed right on my status update guessing game? (He beat out two of my girlfriends!!) Well, I announced that he was the winner.. and now he wrote on the thread, “What do I win???”

    I don’t know how to respond to that….



  31.  #31Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Lucy, hello duh. “I am the prize.” Hahahaha!



  32.  #32Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Now that’s funny. Serendipity or whatever the heck you wanna call it. LOL!



  33.  #33Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    LOL! That IS funny!! Wow, I didn’t see it!



  34.  #34Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I DID think of responses along those lines, but didn’t make the connection to our convo on here….



  35.  #35Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    30: Lucy says:
    “. and now he wrote on the thread, “What do I win???”
    I don’t know how to respond to that…”

    “What do you want?” maybe…

    Or if that seems too provocative…

    “This fabulous balloon” or “medallion”
    or “award”…. (show an image) … something like that…

    You could find or make a graphic…

    SLV



  36.  #36Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    @31: Simply Shannon says:

    “Lucy, hello duh. ‘I am the prize.’ Hahahaha!”

    Teehee, yeah! 😳

    SLV



  37.  #37Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    I’m still laughing. I really needed that! 🙂

    Or how about “I wonder what my prize might be for asking such a great question?”



  38.  #38Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    But actually… this is exactly what I was getting at in that convo….

    When I thought of possible flirtatious/salacious responses, my second thought was, Do I WANT to encourage that with him??? Sure, I’m all that, but is HE what *I* want??

    kwim??

    It is interesting, though, that I even had a contest to begin with… Lol…after that discussion on here! Wow, must’ve had some unconscious shenanigans going on inside here!!

    I never anticipated anyone actually guessing right, let alone HIM.

    So… I had a contest, he won, he wants a prize, I’m the prize…..

    and yet I feel outmaneuvered by my own unconscious…

    because *I* want a prize, and I don’t think it’s HIM!

    What do you think, oh wise Shannon of the fb realm???



  39.  #39Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I really am amazed and smiley about how I was tricked into this by myself. It is funny!!



  40.  #40Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Do not THINK Lucy girl. Feel. This feels fun, right? So what if you believe he’s not the one. Maybe your “picker” is broke, oh thee of the middle finger tribe. LOL!



  41.  #41Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    SLV – #25 great idea to pause before launching in.

    I like the idea of CD-ing as a life-style, though, more than something I save just for nice men, and I’m practicing with little boys, actually all children – old men, shop assistants of both genders – everyone really, so that with men it’s not so new and different.

    On travel parameters for online dating . . . at the moment, on a paid site, I have all areas (in the UK) selected. Somewhere (maybe on the site itself) I read that it’s worth casting the net wide, geographically, partly because some people relocate, or are looking for new jobs and planning to relocate, or travel a lot with work etc. . . . and have read a few success stories where people have met up over a distance. But I don’t actually want a LD relationship, so would probably not take email contacts further, unless there were exceptional circumstances for keeping going.

    I find that most of my approaches are from men within the 40-60 mile range. And so far, they’ve been happy to drive to my town. I have one email conversation going on with someone far too far away for a relationship – but he’s phoning tomorrow night for a first phone call.

    However, if I have to set parameters, I would choose somewhere between 40 and 60 miles – about an hour to an hour-and-a-half away by car.

    I also set the age parameters a bit wider than I probably want . . about 8 years either side of my age, on the grounds that an extra year or two really wouldn’t matter with Mr Right in every other way. But I don’t want someone who feels like a different generation.

    But I’m a very new baby Siren, and might change my mind once I’ve experimented a bit.

    Don’t leave it too long before you launch in though – it’s the live practice that gets the RR tools really meaning something. Especially how men trigger us, and have messages for us . . .



  42.  #42Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Jacqueline @ #26 – thanks for research – time to experiment!



  43.  #43Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    SLV, I took the pof test

    “Congratulations… the results of that questionnaire indicate that you have a good chance of forming and maintaining a long term relationship. Unlike many who did not pass this test you now have the ability to become a “Serious Member”!”

    It was interesting.

    I was honest on it, but it looked really easy to pass dishonestly.



  44.  #44Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Lol, Shannon. Okay, feel, don’t think. Yes it feels fun, but it also feels scary. It feels scary to continue flirting with someone who might end up falling for me when I don’t fall for him (I feel bad when that happens).

    But, maybe I WILL fall for him, right?

    Even though right now I think I won’t, and don’t really want to….



  45.  #45BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    #30 Lucy

    Spooky music playing in background!! How bizarre after all the talk on here of winners and prizes/gifts just the past 24 hours !!

    It’s like the Universe is listening……………



  46.  #46Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Lucy, Hello duh again. I wonder what would happen if Lucy fell for this man. P.S. One of my favorite movies of all time is “If Lucy Fell”. Serendipity again!



  47.  #47Daria on November 4, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Lorelei – I have her book and it’s the muddle finger… Use it to pain self with love



  48.  #48BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    SLV/Lucy

    I don’t see what you get on your profile on POF after paying up to become serious, other than a medallion on your profile!! WTH!!

    And SLV I haven’t see any games but there are MASSIVE forums on there, in the USA they even have forums by state as well as the general forums. There used to be tabs at the top when you sign in but they have disappeared but if you type into your web browser you will find them, they are very active, but don’t post in another countries forum or you will get your knuckles rapped like I did for posting in the UK forum 🙁

    There are some real (googly eyed icon) eye openers in the Love stuff forum!!



  49.  #49Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Never heard of that movie!!! Should I watch it??



  50.  #50Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    How about this in response to “What do I win???”

    “You get to go on to the next round. :)”



  51.  #51BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    #24 Lorelei, ha ha!!!

    Did you end up giving geeky guy a feeling message or did you just let him fade away?

    Looking forward to hearing update on catman and the food too 😀



  52.  #52Daria on November 4, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Paint



  53.  #53BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    middle 🙂



  54.  #54Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    If Lucy Fell is a hilarious, off the wall movie. I love it. Sarah Jessica Parker is in it. Really funny!

    I would feel happy to see a feeling message in the reply. Maybe “I feel smiley. The prize is knowing more about me. And you just made it to the next round.”

    What do you think Lucy?



  55.  #55Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    @48: BarbinOz says:

    …there are MASSIVE forums on there, in the USA they even have forums by state as well as the general forums.”

    Barb, this sounds interestinggggg……

    I didn’t see ANY indication of forums. I’ve only been using the search function, as Daria said I might, as an unregistered user.

    There are some real (googly eyed icon) eye openers in the Love stuff forum!!

    How googly eyed icon? : shock : = 😯 : roll : = 🙄 and : oops : = 😳

    Any stories to tell? What’s in those forums? Now, I’m curious. Too bad you can’t post in UK forums that would be cool since you are relocating there.

    SLV



  56.  #56Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    @52: Daria says:

    “Paint”…

    Hi Daria,

    I’m glad you cleared that up…I was wondering but kinda too polite to ask much about the “pain.” … 😆

    SLV



  57.  #57Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Well… I don’t like that prize.

    And I don’t feel smiley. I feel … mischievous. hehe. BUT this is a public forum, so I don’t want to get too carried away….

    What do you think Shannon? (or anyone else who has an opinion)



  58.  #58Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    I did use a feeling message when I wrote that he won… “I feel impressed.”

    So do I have to use another one, Mother Shannon?



  59.  #59Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I meant fb is a public forum….



  60.  #60Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Middle finger at the ready . . painting on love xxx



  61.  #61BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    #55 SLV

    Sometimes I change my location and post 😀



  62.  #62BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    #55 SLV

    Just people coming from a VERY different viewpoint to my own, then I just sit there and get hooked on a thread and WOW so many viewpoints and talking about lifestyles I have no knowledge of.

    Now Ms SLV you have been warned, it will be another blog addiction coming up for you if you so choose to go there…… 😀



  63.  #63Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I feel tired… and run down…

    Tension in my forehead.

    I feel fed up. It is windy and I feel blown about and windswept… in more ways than 1.

    Today my friend invited me to her b.day bash… except my ex is going, yes the one who I thought was going to marry me, and he is bringing his new g.friend.

    I don’t want to go. I don’t want to see them together. It makes me feel icky just to think of it. It still hurts, after 6 months. And he got with her almost immediately.

    Guess this means I am not healed yet. That feels heavy.

    Selfish me doesn’t want him to be happy!! But that is not really true, I just thought he was going to be happy with me!

    It would feel so weird to see him with another. And think of her in my place, in the flat he and I chose together. It is not MY place anymore… here is. Somewhere new.

    I know I am being a baby. I feel tension/heady and thinky!

    I have been working so hard recently.

    owww…. just had a cry and told my mum how I feel and now I feel much better. She was trying to help by telling me why I shouldn’t feel bad but I calmly explained that these days I need to FEEL my feelings and acknowledge them so that I can respect my feelings rather than stuff them down, and then heal them.

    She became quite sweet and said ‘if you need to cry then cry, if it helps!’

    So I did cry a bit, and slumped down. And then suddenly I felt better. And I sat up and said something and we both laughed and I felt much lighter. Like the tension was gone!

    Oww, this is a much better way to be.

    I became aware I was feeling tired and vulnerable today and realised I needed to take care of myself and stop working for a bit.

    I am going to be gentle on myself in the next few days. Take extra gentle care. And I am going to have a weekend just for me!

    Just doing some stuff at home, like painting my room and some of the other stuff on my lists.

    Love to Sirens. xx



  64.  #64Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    @61: BarbinOz

    I’d like to read some of the POF forum too even if I don’t post. I’m not ready for a profile; I would feel pressure if I got responses even if they weren’t “real” responses.

    Also some POF user guy wrote that POF didnt allow profile descriptions changes so that he made a mistake & appeared 20 years older… I didn’t quite get that one… 😆

    Could I make profile and then “hide” it and still go to POF forums or not? So much to know…but I’m learning… 😀

    SLV



  65.  #65Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Barb (#51)

    HI – how are you doing ? What happened with the mysterious benefactor’s offer of money to get you back to Blighty? I know how you feel – how could you take the money, how could you know it came without strings etc? But, the other Sirens were talking about receiving from the universe through whatever conduit. They reminded me that years ago, in very different circumstances, I let myself receive some large gifts of money, and gifts in kind . .

    Geeky guy – interesting – there’s a little synopsis in #17 on this new thread. And a massive series of posts and one almighty rant on the thread on the ‘off-limits because he has a girlfriend’ thread. I used feeling messages which came back at me badly – with him strongly suggesting that I should lean forward not back, and give him more encouragement, and that I wasn’t doing this enough blah blah. There were a few back and forth messages, but in the end I told him I didn’t want to keep in contact.

    After I’d done that, I got a massive blast of anger – the rant on the other thread – at how he (and my husband) tried to control, change and correct my behaviour to fit in with their perceptions of what is “right” and to soothe their anxieties. It was really nasty anger . . . judgemental, mean . . but when I get angry it short circuits the anger if I try to be nice at the same time.

    The best thing was that the anger seemed to pop out a boundary, that I really need and want – that I do not have to, that I will not tolerate attempts to change my well-intentioned, good, Siren-y behaviour. I will not tolerate attempts to change how I dress, how I speak, who my friends are etc. Geeky guy reminded me of how, early in dating my husband, I happily went along with some subtle and not-so-subtle attempts to change things like how I dressed (he wanted me to dress down, rather than femininely in a skirt etc).

    No wonder it was a big trigger. But it is also a big red flag of a man who wants me to squeeze into his mold. Never again. And I really mean that. I still feel the anger when I write it.



  66.  #66BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    #64 SLV

    Yes my profile is hidden and I just went for a quick nosy 🙂 I am not sure if I can post though, but I think maybe I heard somebody say you can?? Don’t forget you can have an active profile with no photos, probably won’t get too much interest though.

    OK ladies I am off to work, running out the door as this blog is ssooooooo addictive I am late!!!



  67.  #67BarbinOz on November 4, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    But Lorelei did you use any of this anger as in feeling messages to him, or has he just fizzled out…………

    GOTTA GO!!! Aaarrrghhhhh



  68.  #68Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    @62: BarbinOz says:
    #55 SLV
    “..>talking about lifestyles I have no knowledge of…”

    What… kind of… lifestyles…? Will I be safe there… 😯

    “Now Ms SLV you have been warned, it will be another blog addiction coming up for you if you so choose to go there…… “

    That’s OK…bring it…!

    SLV



  69.  #69Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Did a good practice thing the other day.

    My car needed oil and other stuff so I went to Halfords and took myself in with the manual and looked for someone to help me.

    I was not dressed up but I decided that I was going to be strong inside and ‘practice’.

    At first I could not find anyone to help me then I saw some staff behind a counter. There were 3 of them, 2 men and a woman. So I approached with a good aura and smile and asked who would help me?

    The older guy of the 2 caught my eye so I held his eye contact and he jumped to say he would help me in just a minute.

    I waited patiently and then when he was done what he was doing he came to help me.

    I remained open and we started chatting and it turns out he lives in the same place as me. Well he started chatting about his life and I leant back and lsitened.

    I was not attracted to him but I remained open and curious and to cut a long story short he ended up finding all the oil and other car fluids I needed AND came and put them in my car for me. AND he seemed to really enjoy doing this service for me.

    AND he said that they normally charge for this BUT I could have it for free AND he asked whether he could take me for dinner.

    He made it very clear he would pay for everything (awwww).

    Well he gave me his number (I know not the usual way but I was letting him lead and by then I wanted to leave and he needed to get back to work) so I took his number and said I would consider it, which I am.

    I am not attracted but I am curious. I think I have lost his number anyway but it was a very sweet and touching experience and just shows me what can happen when I remain open to people and in a DIVA like state.

    I loved that experience.



  70.  #70Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Oh my gosh, just had another email from CatMan saying “I am really looking forward to meeting you on Saturday your sense of humour is great and I am very intrigued.”

    Has he been reading Rori? She talks a lot about using the intrigued word in online dating?

    It feels really nice to feel his interest . . but will have to wait and see. It’s true that emails, and even the phone, don’t really prepare you for face-to-face. There’s this weird gap . . .



  71.  #71Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Hmmm. I am editing my writing, and I came to this part describing my marriage many years ago. Does this look like masculine and feminine energy switched around? What do you think?

    ……………………….

    I was struggling with depression. I was having nightmares: snakes, aliens, betrayal, evil creatures, floods. I never felt good enough; I felt flawed. I was working on being more accepting of [husband], and the ways he was different from me. I was so goal-oriented, analytical, visionary, and passionate, and he really didn’t have any plans or dreams. I asked him one night what he felt was his deepest need. “Peace,” he answered.
    I asked him, “Peace at home, inner peace, or peace in society?”
    “All three.”
    ………………

    Thoughts?



  72.  #72Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    “It’s true that emails, and even the phone, don’t really prepare you for face-to-face. There’s this weird gap” (Lorelei)

    Am I the only one who doesn’t experience it that way? Anyone else?



  73.  #73Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Lorelei, seems to me a LOT of guys use the word “intrigued” online — I have the feeling it is recommended in online dating articles etc. — it seems overused to me, so I experience it as a turn-off, unoriginal.



  74.  #74Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Ella – @ 69 -I like this – and it is lovely to hear how CD-ing works well in all situations, not just date ones.



  75.  #75Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Ella, that’s great about processing your emotions! 🙂



  76.  #76Honey on November 4, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Lucy #8 –

    Oo La La…I love a sensual man, too. Just want to love him in the context of a committed relationship. Mmmm…all the more yummy!



  77.  #77tinque on November 4, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    what do you mean by a sensual man?
    xxoo



  78.  #78Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Lucy re 73

    I think so too. I have got that impression…. One guy kinda came across in a knowing way when I used it like ‘ah, you used that word… you must have read the ‘tips”

    What can we use instead?



  79.  #79Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Does anyone else think that the hands making a heart pic at the top of this post also look a little like a diagram of the female womb?

    Lol… or is it just my funny ol’ head?



  80.  #80Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Like the inside woman bits as viewed from the front but no legs…. he he



  81.  #81Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Ella, I just check in with my feelings and use words that accurately reflect them.



  82.  #82Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Tinque– a man exquisitely attuned to the pleasures of the senses — taste, touch, smells, sounds, sights — not only sexually, but in all of life.

    Like fb college guy guessing right about my favorite smell on my walk the other night. 🙂



  83.  #83Honey on November 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Renie –

    So he is a “healthy” relationship for you, and that’s going to feel very different from a codependent one.

    Can you tell him how you DO feel and share your fears.

    “I felt happy, excited, (fill in the blank) when you said you were falling for me.

    You are the most caring man I’ve ever met. I care for you deeply. I miss you when I’m away from you and feel great when we’re together. Lately I’ve been feeling that there is a tension between us. I’m afraid of losing you (or whatever you fear) if I cannot say that I’m in love with you at this time. It would feel really great to me if we could let things continue to develop at a leisurely pace.

    Just tossing some ideas out there.

    Anybody else?

    What do you think?”



  84.  #84Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Lucy,

    Yes and Rori had reccommended the use of the word ‘intrigued’ as part of a standard message you could use to reply to guys with to save energy when CD-ing.

    I had been using it however sometimes it felt cheesy to me as part of it was always to compliment the guy on his appearance and something in his profile and to me that sometimes felt unauthentic and also like I was doing the work/leaning forward.

    However I see the sense in having a standard message to save energy.

    What do you all think?



  85.  #85tinque on November 4, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    thank you Lucy…
    xxoo



  86.  #86Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Barb- yes, partly – in my last emails to him I said, in various different bits that I felt annoyed, uncomfortable, blamed, turned off and drained. Not all at once, and not all in the same sentence.

    At the end of the ‘date’ I had said “Call me” after he mentioned being in touch. There was also an email where I said I was open to seeing him again.

    He then did a lot of stressing about whether I would want to see him again (I had said I did) and finally he said, “The problem I had was . . . me having to ask . . . whether I could ring you again . . . was not a particularly good sign . . . it would have made a world of difference if you’d said I could contact you again without me asking.”

    His anxiety was so great, this barely makes sense, given that I had said “Call me” and been as encouraging as a Siren can be.

    I did best I could with this, wanting to be clear and firm, and ending with “not feeling the kind of connection I would need to meet up again or stay in contact.” (You don’t say!!)

    About half an hour after I sent this last one, I got hit by this explosion of fury, about him and the men who have pressurised me into altering myself to suit them. And angry with myself for going along with it. . . Because of course, it is how it fits with me that I have chosen to be with controlling men (See Toxic Men).

    So he didn’t get blasted in the emails but yes, I did use feeling messages.

    I have learnt again (also with my husband) that if, when I use feeling messages, they are subtly turned around and used to blame or attack me for being what I am, that I should run away fast . . men who start trying to change us in early on, aren’t going to stop later.

    I don’t want to work through having feeling messages turned against me. I want someone who loves the feeling stuff. And who accepts me as I am.



  87.  #87Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Honey – meant to reply to you on the other thread however typing was getting nigh on impossible!

    I think I just caught the tail end of the conversation that ended up talking about men calling us bitches etc…. I realise there was much I missed.

    I just expressed my feeling to that 1 post I saw out of context… just expressing more than anything.

    No I feel fine with it all. No need to explain. New thread, new topics! 🙂 xx



  88.  #88Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Ella – to me, a standard reply feels inauthentic. I just go with however I feel in the moment. That way it’s not leaning forward or doing any work… it’s just expressing in the moment. Sometimes it’s just

    “Thank you. :)”

    or

    “:)”

    or

    “I feel smiley.”

    or

    “That feels good to read.”

    I keep it very simple and sincere and let him do all the work.



  89.  #89Lorelei on November 4, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Lucy #72 – I’m open to being persuaded otherwise about the phone vibe versus the live vibe. I feel I’m quite sensitive to how a phone conversation goes . .but have been surprised that face-to-face more is revealed.

    But perhaps I wrote that a bit glibly – my deep intuition hasn’t been so very wrong actually.



  90.  #90Ella on November 4, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Hmmm, I don’t think I want a sensual man… I want a masculine neaderthol (he he)… well a masculine man anyway.

    I want to be the sensual one…

    the sensual men I have encountered have become too feminine energy later on and that has been awful for me.

    So I feel put off from this type of man for now. Although I remain open. I prefer really masculine guys right now… even with their ‘flaws’!

    Just my preference right now…

    Hmmm a really strong, sexy, manly man. Who is sexual and rough and ready but caring too.

    Yup that sounds yummy! Good. Feels good right now.



  91.  #91Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I usually don’t even look at his profile during the first couple messages. I just respond authentically to whatever he wrote, and sometimes to his little picture that shows with the message.

    e.g., “Thank you! I love your hair. :)”



  92.  #92Ella on November 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Lucy re 88

    That is helpful to me and I am going to try that now.

    However I wonder why Rori recommends that standard speech?

    Any ideas Sirens?



  93.  #93Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Oh, Ella! I want a very manly, masculine, strong, sexy, SENSUAL man! Oh my! I feel weird reading what you wrote! Sensual doesn’t mean feminine at all!!



  94.  #94Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Lucy –

    “What do I win?”

    Oooooo…I LOVE banter! Respond with a question?

    “What do you WANT?”

    I’m the Queen of Banter! Guys love it. It entices without actually physically DOING anything.



  95.  #95Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    I love the Patti Contenta stuff.

    I tried it on my Sunday CD…even the dance stuff. It made him crazy. And so did the eye contact.

    Oo La La!



  96.  #96Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Lucy –

    If you ask him what he wants, he will think of all kinds of sexual stuff. Even though he knows he’s not going to get it, it will tease his mind and he will enjoy it.

    Yea Banter!



  97.  #97Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Honey, I love banter, too. If a guy can’t banter, NEXT!!



  98.  #98Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Banter is like my biggest turn-on.



  99.  #99Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Ella #69 –

    So cool! He was magnetically drawn to you!

    And you saved money! hehe



  100.  #100Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    “If you ask him what he wants, he will think of all kinds of sexual stuff. Even though he knows he’s not going to get it, it will tease his mind and he will enjoy it.”

    Honey, who says he’s not going to get it??? 😀

    We have already done a lot of that in our private messages, so I am sure he is already thinking of sexual stuff with his question, and wondering how I will respond….

    That’s why I liked my idea of “You get to move to the next round.” It conveys the idea that he is that much closer to getting me but that he has to work for it a little more….

    and makes him curious about what “the next round” entails…

    Asking “what do you want?” feels too blatant to me… not enough teasing and subtlety…



  101.  #101Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Not to mention the fact that this is on my fb WALL where everyone, including my kids, my siblings, my ex-in laws, WH, and TN man can see….



  102.  #102Ella on November 4, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Lucy re 93 –

    Yes could well be true, however that is what it feels to me at the moment when I hear that word in relation to a man…

    My tigger…



  103.  #103Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    ok



  104.  #104PassionatelyPisces on November 4, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    I’m only up to # 85, but I want to respond before I get too far down and into the rest of the posts…

    #69 Ella–Your experience today reminded me of the free phone call from Cherry Norris (a few threads ago) about men flirting and eye contact, etc. She said if he stays focused on YOU (not your career, business conversation, etc.) and he gives you his card or his number—that we’re supposed to write our number on the the back of it and return it to him with a smile—indicating he should call you.

    I thought that was a great idea–keeping with leaning back and letting them do all the initiating 🙂

    Also I was thinking about ‘intrigue’ and checked out my tattered and torn Roget’s Thesaurus and found these words to play with for your online communications: appealing; charming, captivating; keen; fascinating; enticing; absorbing; entertaining; alluring; beguiling; enchanting; engaging; tantalizing; and tempting! Hmmmm…. 😉

    Ok–back to the blog so I don’t get behind.

    Peace…



  105.  #105Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Lucy –

    Banter is one of my turn-ons, too. I love humor but especially banter.

    Dancing guy can’t banter and he’s not sensual. I like him SO MUCH as a person and he’s great to me. But I like the sexual tension of banter. And when a guy kisses me, I want to melt….mmmmmm…



  106.  #106Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    PP –

    Love your thesaurus work for “intrigue” – so much less trite. I don’t like trite.

    And writing your phone number on the back of his card is genius.



  107.  #107Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Hehe. My impromptu research is taking me to some interesting places today. How’s this

    http://www.alpha-impact.com/SensualMan

    Sensual Man Produces More Masculine Energy Than Any Other Pheromone Product On The Market

    That’s what I’m talking about. hehe.



  108.  #108Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Lucy –

    Oh my, I would NOT put that on a fb wall. I was thinking email. Yes, to blatant if you’ve already been there.



  109.  #109Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    I meant “too” blatant. My computer is having trouble spelling today. lol



  110.  #110Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    THIS WEBSITE IS MORE ADDICTIVE THAN MAN CRACK!

    I HAVE to get some work done!



  111.  #111Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Honey,

    “But I like the sexual tension of banter. And when a guy kisses me, I want to melt….mmmmmm…”

    Oh yes. That’s why I got hooked on WH. Before we met, the banter was off the charts!!! Not always sexual, either — just TONS of fun — creative, inventive, funny, clever stuff…. yum yum yum

    And then ending the long and SENSUAL date with a long melty kiss!!!

    How could I NOT fall for him???



  112.  #112Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    OMG! I LOOOOOOVE the smell of men’s cologne. Perfume does nothing for me, but men’s cologne? Oh yes…such a turn on.

    OK, I need to set up a CD…and he MUST wear cologne.



  113.  #113Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Lucy –

    I hear ya. That’s how it was with Hunky Man…I was hooked before we met. And the chemistry was off the chart the moment we met.



  114.  #114Daria on November 4, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    hey…

    am at the library

    mmph

    dad was going on about my bills and me having to call people because they’re offering me low settlements

    and then i was like…well i had decided im going to file for bankruptcy

    and he’s like… NO. He doesn’t want to be EMBARASSED by me filing bankruptcy in his house…

    and i was like… well this would actually help because I wouldn’t need your help to pay money to pay this off… so he says id rather pay this than be embarassed

    if you want to file bankruptcy it wont be in my house

    I said : id ont want to accept the kind of help that doesnt feel good

    he says well haven i endured enough havent i been embarassed enough

    [I feel so clear that this is SO not about me. I’ve lived my life my own way and some of my experiences are not necessarily what would be something some people would think are cool… but i DO.

    i love and respect me]

    so i said well i feel bad this doesnt feel like hlep that you are embarased about MY filing for bankruptcy

    hes like well get out of here then

    get out of my life

    and i said.. ok … i will as best as i can (got kinda triggered and lost feeling here and this came out)

    soemthing else he said

    i said
    well i dont want to be helped this way…

    hes like well how do you want to be helped then

    i was running away and he ran after me

    i fumbled with the door knob. luckily nothign happened in the few seconds i was fumbling

    got out the front door and he didnt follow me

    the door slammed shut behind me

    **
    so i went and stood barefeet in the grass and meditated a bit

    then i walked to the library

    it feels SOO nice out the air is warm

    i am weraing a sexy cotton dress and rubber flip flops… no bra… and i feel a bit embarssed although i actually prefer no bra and often times in the past ive purposely gone without it but right now i feel self conscious

    also i feel worried becasue

    they wouldnt tell me my library number at the library, i only got a temporary pass which is 30 min

    BUT

    i will survive hehe

    I like books also

    and its open till 9

    but maybe ill go home before then

    hmmph

    well i feel scared and tense in my left jaw and my left side felt tigh

    i love my feelings

    i feel anger too

    mm

    im liking that i got out quickly instad of trancing out too long to listen to his feeling messages and put downs

    i may not be like him and he may not even like me but i am a woman who loves and respects MYSELF and i don’t want to be treated abusively .

    . period.

    and you know what, i rather like me, AND my life and i feel proud, even of my outlaw adventures,’

    and if it were a movie and abook i would laugh and feel happy and delighted

    so what

    if someone else’s voices and beliefs are blinding them to me and turning them to judge me badly

    i am me

    i will love and respect and take care of myself

    i am able to do this



  115.  #115Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Clever banter still builds sexual tension even if it’s not sexual banter. Cuz cleverness is such a turn on.



  116.  #116Daria on November 4, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Tinque – Im here to talk about T-tapp!



  117.  #117Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Daria –

    Do tell. I wanna know what it is.



  118.  #118Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    @94: Honey says:
    Lucy –

    “What do you WANT?”

    Teehee… That was my first choice question.

    … Great minds must think alike. 😆

    SLV



  119.  #119Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    SLV –

    I like you. You are so cool! I always look forward to reading your posts!



  120.  #120Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    “Cuz cleverness is such a turn on.”

    Absolutely!!!



  121.  #121Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Lucy, Hehe… Mother Shannon? Your post just went into whiny voice for me. But Mooommmm I diiiidddd use a feeling message. Do I really have to use another one? LOL!

    YES. Now go clean your room and no more back talk. 🙂

    I’d go with what feels right. I liked what you wrote above. Just plugging the Rori Rules like any good Rori-bot would.



  122.  #122Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Hugs and cheers for Daria!!!



  123.  #123Daria on November 4, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Honey – well it’s a type of exercise that is very rehabilitative and healthy it’s called T-tapp… it’s at t-tapp.com

    their forums are great filled with natural health info and people sharing their experience with different diets and supplements etc, very about natural health

    also they ahve “try before you buy” exercises so it can be checked out free



  124.  #124Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Daria –

    Does it do anything different than anything else?



  125.  #125Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Haha Shannon. Good Rori-bot.

    Yes, you picked up the intended tone in that post! Who says writing doesn’t accurately convey tone, bah!

    And what’s up with people telling me to clean my room?? You’re the second person this week! Sheesh!

    😀



  126.  #126Simply Shannon on November 4, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Daria, Oh my goodness. That feels awful. He’d feel embarrassed because you file for bankruptcy? I mean as a parent, I can kind of see that, but you’re an adult. It’s your business. Maybe that’s just the only way he knows how to communicate his “help”? Maybe he assumes he has to talk to you that way to make you listen? Trying to think of a better story here. I hope you can go back home. I feel proud of you outlaw.



  127.  #127Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    OMG! I need to clean my room. The Goddess Temple is a total mess. I DESERVE a clean room and it has been cluttered since I bought my place a year ago.

    I want to go to sleep and wake up in a zen environment.



  128.  #128Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Okay, I wrote the thing about moving on to the next round. I’ll keep ya posted girls.

    It feels weird that both he and his ex-wife write stuff on my fb wall. I wonder if she’ll be mad at me if she finds out we are flirting.



  129.  #129Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Daria –

    Does the T-Tapp brushing really DO anything?



  130.  #130Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    @119: Honey says:

    “SLV –
    I like you. You are so cool! I always look forward to reading your posts!”

    Thanks. You’re so kind.

    I’ve been checking out POF. BarbinOz remarked on the forums and her amazement at the “different lifestyles” and now I am SO curious. You mentioned online before but not the forum topics there. What’s the vibe?

    SLV



  131.  #131Honey on November 4, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    SLV –

    What do you mean, “What’s the vibe”?



  132.  #132Lucy on November 4, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Daria, my parents wouldn’t let me live with them when I got pregnant (age 22) because of embarassment and keeping up their image in the community. I had been living with the baby’s father in FL but left when he started physically abusing me bc I decided not to abort. I thought my parents would welcome me home, but they said I could only stay if I had an abortion. So I found a “maternity home” to live in, had my baby and placed her for adoption. I would have kept her if someone (such as my parents) had helped me find a way.

    It sucks when parents don’t help us the way we need them to, respecting our choices.



  133.  #133Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    @131: Honey says:

    “SLV –
    What do you mean, “What’s the vibe”?</i?

    What's the ambience, character, tone, flavor and personality? Generally speaking, what goes on in the forums?

    SLV



  134.  #134Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    lalalala is my vibe



  135.  #135Renie on November 4, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Honey,

    Thank you for the response. Yes, this is all very new and different for me so I’m not sure what I feel, as in…is it love or not! And that’s not a cop out, it’s the truth. How do you know you’re feeling something that you’ve never felt? I know I feel differently about him than any of the other men I’ve CD’d since learning the RR way.

    Hopefully some thoughts/feelings will come to me when I see him in person tomorrow. I can’t talk about things like this over the phone. Certain things are better face to face.

    Any other comments welcome!



  136.  #136Daria on November 4, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Honey – yes it not only does a whole lot mire than you’d expect ( ESP done twice a day). But it feels sooo good after.., like after orgasm hehe



  137.  #137Daria on November 4, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Honey – yes it does almost everything different than everything else lol.

    It heals not only muscles but hormonal and lymphatic issues.

    It realigns posture

    It has to be done only for 15 min now and then for results

    It feels really good

    The forums on the webpage are full if resources where people describe their experiences and ask questions

    The nutrition forums are packed with info

    There’s also ” try before you buy exercises”

    It reminds me of rehabilitation, calisthenics, bellydance, yoga, tai chi

    Plus it will help models to spot reduce target areas in like 5 minutes

    It’s like a roti for the body

    Check out and try try before you buy exercises

    The secret is in holding the basic posture throughout



  138.  #138Daria on November 4, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    I’m back home, I found a good LSAT study book at the library… Would feel nice to listen to music and take a shower (hot cold, after skinbrushing) now



  139.  #139Katarina Phang on November 4, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Jacq, continuing our discussion, here’s a book on how oxytocin bonds men and women through sex:



  140.  #141Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Re: John Travolta, Olivia Newton-John on old thread

    @BarbinOz says:

    “Oh yes I like your words much better STEP is so much better than NEED”

    Something got lost in translation…

    As soon as I saw you had put up the lyrics, the tune bounced into my head and wouldn’t leave, except I kept hearing: ==>

    You better step up ’cause I need a man… (instead of “shape up)

    Only because “step Up” was resonating a little more than “shape up.” Of course, these guys need to “shape up” to “step up.” 😆

    “You better step up ’cause I need a man
    And my heart is set on you
    You better shape up, you better understand
    To my heart I must be true
    Nothing left, nothing left for me to do…”

    SLV



  141.  #142Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    @140: Katarina Phang says:
    “The Chemistry of Connection: How the Oxytocin Response Can Help You Find Trust, Intimacy, and Love”

    Wellllll, what can I say?…. It can be a good thing and it can also be a “poisoning” that can put you in a real bad “hurt.”

    SLV



  142.  #143Denise on November 4, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    SLV, All I can say to that POF test is WTH! I never paid for the upgrade status- it makes no sense, unless you feel the need to post more SLV pics! Are you doing it?



  143.  #144Denise on November 4, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Renie,

    Me too! I hear you, that is similiar to what happened with me and my Perfect Man.

    One late night, he said he was not expecting to be falling in love with me. It was about a month and half into the relationship, in the middle of a very emotional convo, where he was sharing his past, that he was still mourning the loss of his ex, which he had shared with me some weeks earlier, but not in detail.

    How do you feel about love with him?



  144.  #145jacqueline on November 4, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Katarina – very interesting – and the reviews say we can change our brain chemistry without chemicals. Yeah!

    I love to find the newest stuff out there on the old old subject of relationships – because I really think a lot of what we’re now finding is revolutionary simply because it’s being observed (like quantum physics changes the outcome IF there’s an observer) and things that we never even took into play ARE in play….

    and we are free to discover it and use the knowledge.

    Here’s part of an interesting comment on the book:

    I was so fortunate to be able to read it just as I was getting into a new romantic relationship. It explained to me so much of what was going on with us, both in the first wonderful flush of attraction and lust, and now when we’ve “hit the wall” and are trying to deal with the disappointment of realizing it’s not all as perfect and rosy as we’d thought. Thanks to this book, I think I know how to do this stage in a more healing and less blaming way than I did in past relationships, and I am hopeful that this time love will last. The author not only gives insight into the biochemistry of connection, she suggests specific ways to heal from old wounds that keep us from getting the love we want. I hear so many people talking about their troubled love life, or lack of a love life, and I always want to say to them, “Buy this book! It explains just what’s puzzling or frustrating you about your relationships…” Amazon review of book Kat linked to –

    I want to heal from any and all old wounds!

    And sometimes reading the art of seduction….ummmm….wow, if I had to do the finger run down my face thing? I’d think the guy was needing resusication or something. Like with the are they going to be good, sensual lovers ( and sensual in a way that they LOVE women – the softness of our skin the smell of our hair….) –

    All or most guys want to have sex with us – so I don’t really get the need for seduction techniques… but I wanted to find that one who CHERISHED having sex with ME. And that was really good at it.

    And I never gave much thought to doing it in a manner that made them fall in love with me, I always just noticed if I was falling for them – and if I was, it was reciprocated. That’s the lean back in a nutshell….of course if you’re falling and they aren’t?! Back away quickly.

    I think men size us up way more quickly than we would ever consider doing – and if they see in us what matches their list of desires, the chase is on. I also think sometimes we fail to see where we have the power and the moment of us having that power can pass quickly away, as the man is being what we want while judging us. And if his judgement is in any way, lacking – he’s gone.

    So, if he’s sticking around? Yeah, he might be falling – but I don’t think he’ll ever fall completely without a sexual experience. And that’s from the many many men I’ve talked to about it.

    Our whole notion of holding out to maintain our power? Might be more accurately turned on it’s head – and committment without certainty of physical compatability? It’s like optioning for divorce – when you don’t need to.

    Interesting….and g’nite, all!

    J



  145.  #146Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    @143: Denise says:
    “SLV, All I can say to that POF test is WTH! I never paid for the upgrade status- it makes no sense, unless you feel the need to post more SLV pics! Are you doing it?”

    No, I’m exploring the POF site and figuring out what’s there and how it works. I don’t have any pics! How do you like POF?

    SLV



  146.  #147Denise on November 4, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    I’m catching up here…

    (((Daria))), I have been there with a tough love Dad. I feel your emotions. I remember one stomp out way long ago…funny, I can see the images in my mind, tracing your steps to the door, out into the yard. So familiar! Maybe he is just angry at himself, plus he wants to protect you, like any Papa Bear. Your responsibility will lead you in the best direction.
    You have to listen to yourself, take your own steps, make your decisions. At your age, your dad should not be embarassed by your decision- and anyway, who will know unless he tells others? Please point that out to him. Glad you got back to the house ok! Keep happy thoughts.

    (((Lucy))), your story made me sad for you; that must have been such a difficult decision for you at that age. I can’t stand when I hear parents don’t know how to accept us, and love us unconditionally. Truly, that is their role! I guess we/they are mere humans. I hope you found the forgiveness in your heart for them. And I hope they found the courage to heal from that mistake, and somehow made it up to you.



  147.  #148Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    @145: jacqueline

    I appreciated your commentary. It spiked my interest in the book.

    Thanks.

    SLV



  148.  #149Denise on November 4, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    You have to get pics if you want to post a profile!
    Can you get a friend with a camera to help you out?
    Plan a day of creative fun.

    First: Treat yourself to a free makeover at the cosmetics counter, at the local department store.
    Second: add a few bright tops and a few great accessories, for changes, and different looks;
    Third: Change lipsticks every few shots and pose in front of different places;
    Fourth: Keep shooting lots & lots of pictures.
    Voila = instant photographic portfolio.



  149.  #150Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    @149: Denise says:
    “You have to get pics if you want to post a profile!
    Can you get a friend with a camera to help you out?
    Plan a day of creative fun.”

    Sounds like fun.

    SLV



  150.  #151Ankita on November 4, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Oh man man man….

    I messed it all up again…. Damn… I should be titled, “The Mistake’s Messy”….. 🙁

    As I posted on this blog some weeks ago, that the guy I was dating then (Mr. V) had all of a sudden stopped all contacts with me due to our fight and his misunderstanding regarding a certain petty issue… It’s been one month since we did split and I dropped off the face off the earth for him. I just tried to ask him twice what’s wrong and when he didn’t reply, wham, I moved on to other guys….

    But as I got close to others, that was the moment I realized that he was the one I wanted to be with, perhaps… I am dating 3 guys now, but none of them do excite me, the more I kiss them, the more I think about him… The more they hold my hand and hug me, I recall him… I never imagined that someday I’d feel this hard for him. Even while splitting up, I thought I’ll move on easily, but now it seems tough than tougher…

    In other words, I feel it was good on a part that we did grew separate, coz it was just then that I realized that I loved him, and that other guys didn’t matter that much… (When I was with him, I used to flirt to guys everywhere)

    He had blocked me off on facebook and ignored me on orkut. He knows I don’t use orkut much whereas am addicted to FB. 2 weeks ago by mistake I sent him a req. on orkut and it went, showing that he had removed me from his orkut ignore list, and he also kept the display pic which had compelled me some years ago to send him req. and befriend him. But at the same time, hasn’t removed me from FB block list. This action of him made me feel like he has perhaps realized that I wasn’t worthy of what he did but isn’t willing to accept his fault, as usual. (I felt so coz keeping someone in ignore list doesn’t costs a penny or extra space)

    P.S.. I find it really weird that he hasn’t yet removed my comments on his pics and other posts from his FB & orkut profile. They have remained as intact as they were when we were together. (As far as I know, if someone is that hell bent on moving on, they’ll remove every tiny proof of the other person… So that they don’t recall him/her… )

    Right now we are having a festival here, “Diwali”, yesterday I got a little emotional for him, and mom and all other persons did insist me to wish him diwali and give him the signal that am still approachable. I didn’t fall for it initially, saying that he can still contact me if he wants, but after whole 16 hours of being persuaded by everyone that atleast he needs a sign and then may be back if he’s really into me, I finally gave in, and somehow gathered courage to text him “Happy Diwali. Only after we went our separate ways, did I realize what you meant to me. I just wanted to say, I’m sorry..!”

    WHAM BHAM………..
    I FEEL I HAVE MESSED UP……….



  151.  #152Daria on November 4, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks Shannon, Lucy Denise and all

    Im at home feeling good right now… my mom seemed worried when i came in, im in a great mood…
    she seems pist at my dad

    my dad is now in a good mood loving the cat, its cool

    hmph

    i am GROWING!

    i heal the world starting with me



  152.  #153Daria on November 4, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    I walked back from the library, leaning back… I suddenly realized i had been leaning forward…
    so instead i stood up straight

    this made my titties ride much better and i felt as if i were wearing a bra

    it also kinda tensed diff places in my back which all eventually released

    Boy it was an exercise!! but i felt awesome!!

    Im really able to drop energy in my pelvis now, and feel that as my center of gravity !

    yum!!

    i walked thru the park past the basketball court wheer guys were playing

    they were looking at me

    i got scared hehe and i even oput my head down at one po9int

    i did manage like a 2 sec smile with one, maybe it was almost 3

    but i felt so good in my body cuz by that time i had really got into my posture —
    and i kept it

    it feels DIUFFERENT

    and very amazing



  153.  #154Honey on November 4, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Daria –

    I was checking out the T-Tapp. Does the brushing really work? I figure you don’t have any sagging cuz you’re young, but I do and would love to tighten things up a bit. Don’t know if I would be consistent with it, though.

    Also, did you get as quick a result with the exercise as the people who post on the website? Seems like no one could lose inches that fast unless they were very overweight to start.



  154.  #155Daria on November 4, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Honey – yes, the brushing REALLY works. it really works better too with the alfalfa supplements

    you Do however have to do the brushing twice a day for results to show up… in about 3 weeks you should have noticed some significant results

    with T-tapp the exercise
    I got incredibly quick results with it. as in, after the first day of exercise results…



  155.  #156Daria on November 4, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    I stand with T-tapp the way I do with Rori stuff… I am way way for it…

    it just ROCKS its wow!



  156.  #157Daria on November 4, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    This particular exercise, called T-tapp Twist,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3iFxJ62DWM

    actually SHRINKS my ribcage (after one exercise… can tell the next day)

    I haven’t heard of any other exercises that do this…

    you know when you see models and their ribs look a lil too big, theyre poking out? this SHRINKS and tightesns the ribs

    makes the boobs look better, and waist smaller for me

    I mean… this stuff is just off the hook amazing

    Teresa Tapp (the T-tapp lady) recommends to only do T-tapp twist after doing the starter move Primary Back Stretch (because of lymph and spine stuff)

    but I would say try it without just to notice what happens

    AGAIN – the secret is holding T-tapp stance! – feet pointed forward, bent knees, curl core under so back is flat, turn out legs from hips, raise ribs, roll shoulders back and down – similar to a bellydance stance or a tai chi stance

    while doing the moving and twisting



  157.  #158Daria on November 4, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Honey – check out the FORUMS do a search for skin brushing…

    many women there are multiple kiddie moms, some with 9 kids i remember – the brushing works!!



  158.  #159jstbreathe on November 5, 2010 at 4:58 am

    As an Italian girl…..I so wave my hands when I talk all the time! This is a great thing to be aware of….now if I can only change it…



  159.  #160Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:46 am

    Great commentary, Jacq and I concur.

    Yes the experience of falling in love, for men especially, isn’t complete until sex. If that’s what women want then they should relax more about sex.

    I just loved it when SG and I were making love our first weekend getaway he would be whispering in my ears, “I’ve fallen for you” or “I’m in love with you.”

    Expecting commitment without knowing if you’re sexually compatible is like putting the carriage before the horse. Why don’t you just go ahead and investigate if you’re compatible in the most fundamental way and then let things develop naturally from there. Relax, enjoy and see how he falls for you so deeply because you’re so confident, happy and radiant.

    Using sex as a tool for commitment won’t work in the long run because even marriage can be dissolved. (Guess Erika’s realizing it now 🙂 ).



  160.  #161Honey on November 5, 2010 at 6:14 am

    Daria –

    Thanks for the T-Tapp info. I’m so bad about making time for exercise but I might give this a shot. I’m a member of Curves but the hours are so limited I often cannot get in there. Maybe I can experiment with the one exercise first and see how it goes. The videos aren’t horribly expensive, which is nice.

    Did a search on alfalfa…did not find any controlled studies on it. Might be worth a try, though. Hmmm…

    Thanks for sharing. I will definitely check out your link.



  161.  #162Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 6:22 am

    @160: Katarina Phang says:

    “…Using sex as a tool for commitment won’t work in the long run because even marriage can be dissolved. (Guess Erika’s realizing it now )….”

    What’s the story here? I sense this is a snarky side comment. Who is Erika? Is she someone you don’t like?

    SLV



  162.  #163Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:12 am

    Ankita, you can and will find other guys you equally love.

    I did and now my husband wants more of me. I’ve been too busy juggling another fledgling relationship I put him on the back burner.

    No man is indispensable. Life is abundant. Just to realize is empowering.



  163.  #164life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 7:14 am

    I remember when I half-jokingly told a man acquaintance last year that I was “a good girl”, and what I meant by that, which I explained to him, was that I am monogamous, have never slept around, am faithful, etc. I know me, and I know what I need to feel before I want to get sexually intimate, so it isn’t that common of an occurrence for me. I’m fine with that. I don’t feel that I am missing out on anything, and don’t want to use it to make a man fall in love with me. I don’t need a commitment before I have sex though, because I agree that it’s better to find out if you are compatible in this area, just like any other area. anyway, i digress. The man said this in response: “That (your being a good girl) is good for us, but bad for you.”
    He didn’t want to give away anything else, but I assume he meant, if you don’t sleep with a man within a reasonable amount of time (which seems to be getting shorter and shorter) there’s always someone a stone’s throw away who will be more than willing to. I dunno. Still, from experience and making mistakes before in sleeping with someone too soon, being very selective and getting to know the whole person is my story…and i’m sticking to it.
    XXOO



  164.  #165life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 7:19 am

    The other thing about just having sex for sex sake, sensual pleasure and leave it at that, is that there is SO much going on involving the sexual joinings beyond the oxytocin connection, that the average person is not even aware of. Nine times out of ten, even with the best intentions or considering oneself a rockstar free spirit, one of the partners is inevitably going to have expectations and get hurt big time from casual sex.



  165.  #166life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 7:29 am

    ….and i just don’t want or need the karma or drama anymore.

    Relationship for me is now about karma yoga, growing, learning and advancing souls, not about creating new addictions and attachments, sex having the potential for being one of them.
    (even though I do love good sex and plan on having some in a non-casual union, whenever that happens)
    🙂



  166.  #167Honey on November 5, 2010 at 7:37 am

    Siren, please help me with a feelings statement. I want to be prepared.

    My company is putting on a conference and my boss from my old company will be there and I will most likely have to speak with her.

    I am going to use some judgmental language because I am short on time. Basically, she is a neurotic, narcissistic, self-agrandizing, insulting, bitch. She thinks she taught me everything she knows and I know she will say something condescending to me. She will act like she taught me everything I know and act like my kids’ progress is a result of what SHE did.

    Can someone give me a feelings statement for when she pulls this? I don’t want to let her suck me in. I just want to be prepared with a statement, say it, then walk away.

    Help!



  167.  #168Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Real life story about men not being in contact for ages for a really good reason — yes, in the hospital for weeks, in ICU!!!

    (One of my CDs from awhile back, the one I had slept with a few times)

    I guess it really does happen.



  168.  #169life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 7:45 am

    In a way, I think the relationship with long distance EUM guy is challenging me to open up my heart to myself first, and I am grateful for that. This is another reason I like the no closure mindset.

    It is truly not about making the other person wrong or blaming the other person. That guy is truly so confused and has been hit upside the head with multiple stressful events in the past two years,doesn’t know what is going on with himself, I should probably be so thankful that he is holding off.

    But his high maintenance demands that I always be “on” during his daily phone calls, which is not going to be happening anymore, are not serving me and are draining me. That’s it.

    I so much felt like Ankita that I will never find another I feel the same way about, and was only thinking about him when I am CDing, and CDing was even making that worse. What a trap, what a prison.

    But I am here to tell you that it WILL get better. As you open your heart up more to yourself and what is good for YOU, you realize, like Turtle Girl said in the last thread and I don’t want anyone to miss THIS:

    The fact is–the cold hard brutal fact is–THIS IS MY LIFE. What am I waiting on? For him? No. He did not step up. I can not and will not worship at the altar of HIM. I will worship at the altar of my own wonderful life. Even when I am sad, even when I am angry. Even when I feel so lonely I want to vampire scream as Daria says. (Thanks, Daria!) I will worship my own power and my own feelings and my own beautiful slice of femaleness that is uniquely ME. I have to work through my feelings whatever they are. If I do not do this I will not heal. Period. I cannot bring a healthy goddess into my next relationship if I do not heal…..”

    RIGHT ON!!

    xxoo



  169.  #170Honey on November 5, 2010 at 7:46 am

    How bout,

    “Oh wow, I’m feeling pressured to agree to something that’s not true.”

    or “Oh wow, I’m feeling bullied.”

    or “How interesting that you see it that way…”

    or maybe just, “F off, B!” Ok, maybe not so much on the last one.



  170.  #171Mai on November 5, 2010 at 7:49 am

    Katarina Phang

    i want to know more of your story, you said ‘…now my husband wants more of me, I’ve been too busy juggling another fledgling relationship I put him on the back burner.”

    do you apply CD (circular dating) when your husband is not stepping up or have you guys separated?

    i want to know as i am married, and i am very intrigued by how CD applies in marriages.



  171.  #172Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:51 am

    I agree, LITS. Some of the attachment that comes through sex is more along the lines of chemical addiction than deepening love… and, unfortunately, is mistaken by love sometimes by both parties, until one day they wake up and realize it’s not.

    Tragic case in point in our town a few years back — a young man was forbidden by his gf’s parents to see her anymore bc they were having sex and the parents could see it was hurting her (not just the sex but the whole relationship) — so he got a gun and killed her parents. Experts agreed that it was because he had become addicted to the sex — it certainly was not love for her, killing her parents.



  172.  #173life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 7:57 am

    167. Honey, if I may ask you, what would be the intention of your feeling message? What do you mean by getting sucked in? You could always say something like, “yes, if it weren’t for the guidance, help and inspiration of so many people and forces seen and unseen, known and unknown, near and far, the progress that has been made with my kids may never have happened”.
    What do you think?



  173.  #174Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Katarina, your belief around sex feels very limiting to me (“Men won’t fall deeply in love with me until we have sex”) as opposed to a more freeing belief (“Men will fall deeply in love with me regardless of when we have sex.”)

    Having your belief will make it so.

    I would rather not have such a limiting belief — that way I can follow my feelings and do what I want, without thinking “oh, it won’t work.”

    It feels much better to be free.

    As far as I can tell (since you referenced her), Erika did not adopt a limiting belief such as yours (“Men won’t fall deeply until we have sex” — she actually got RID of a limiting belief (“I’m not allowed to have sex.”)



  174.  #175Honey on November 5, 2010 at 8:01 am

    KITST –

    Thank you for responding.

    It’s not just about my kids…I work in the autism field myself. Yes, she helped me get started, but I put in waaaaay to much into her company of my own time and energy and she screwed my over like she does to everyone now. And then takes credit for anything they do or contribute.

    I am awesome at my job, but she was only a small part of that. I have my own magic.

    My own children are doing great, but she had nothing to do with it.



  175.  #176life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 8:02 am

    172. Wow, Lucy, great example of what i’m talking about.

    btw, i wanted to say i loved reading about how you were CDing that 60-70 year old man, and it made me think and reconsider the relationship that I have with an old retired man and his dogs that i meet every so often in the park, and consider it CDing as well.

    🙂



  176.  #177life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 8:05 am

    I know how you feel, Honey, I really do.

    The woman sounds like she has a superiority complex and you know what those come from. From feeling inferior.

    Be thankful that you are aware as you are, so that you can steer clear of getting involved with her on any level that might be damaging personally or professionally.



  177.  #178life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 8:08 am

    170. Honey

    F**k off b*tch! Haha…love it!!



  178.  #179Honey on November 5, 2010 at 8:08 am

    LITS –

    I AM thankful. Part of what I learned from her was to have boundaries and not be manipulated by others. I felt really damaged when I left the company. But later felt ok because it happened to a bunch of other great people, so I didn’t personalize it anymore.

    She is massive male energy. I’m gonna try staying in my female energy. It will be an interesting experiment.

    Thanks for your support. Gotta go. Wish me luck!



  179.  #180tinque on November 5, 2010 at 8:12 am

    Daria – I feel badly I missed you yesterday.
    First of all I’m glad you got back home okay. It was a good thing what you did, to take a walk, get away, clear your head.
    I wish you well sorting this out with your dad.

    Now about T-Tapp. I read everything on her site, and it all sounds fascinating, yet I feel skeptical because I’ve been disappointed SO many times by false claims. I do want to remain open, especially since you talk about her a lot and endorse her work wholeheartedly.
    The thing is I don’t need or want to get smaller. I have very strong muscles everywhere from my ballet and weight training which I recently added back in.
    My questions are: Do you believe doing her w/o would still have benefits for me? If you believe they would, would you suggest her book or her first DVD, the basic w/o?
    Now my biggest question. You have said that her claim about tightening the skin with brushing and alfalfa holds true. Even for an aging skin? One that is losing its collagen and elastin fibers, the connective tissues?
    From what I know about alfalfa, aside from being nutrient dense, full of wonderful minerals, it’s cleansing, so I can see how it would clean out the lymph system (as a warning to any with sensitive bellies, it can act as a laxative too) but how would alfalfa work on tightening the skin?
    How does any of this work in tightening the skin?
    What is your suggested regimen? How much? How often? Brushing and alfalfa supplementation.
    Exercises too if you think I could benefit from these.
    Thank you so much.
    xxoo



  180.  #181Tessa123 on November 5, 2010 at 8:15 am

    To Passionate Pisces – 1263 in last post (and to all you girls out there)

    it’s vital to your emotional health and in finding a guy that will commit to you, to read the e-book on the baggagereclaim.co.uk. it’s not very expensive and you can download it. there is so much nfo there and theres a long list of the behaviours of these emotionally unavailable men that will resonate with your experience.

    These guys come on very strong in pursuing you at the beginning, they seem like they have real relationship potential but they don’t. i could go on but believe me girls, it will be well worth your while reading this book.

    now i know what signs to look for with these deadbeat men and more importantly the right questions to ask him at the start of the relationship.

    After reading this book, i have so much more insight and i know i’ll never have to go through this experience again.

    girls, your eyes will be popping out of your head when you read this book and you will get so many ahah moments !

    To Renee- i cannot thank you enough for your guidance, you’ve been great and surprise surprise the guy rang my phone on wednesday, i was out didn’t answer it then text, pretending he never got my text regarding no contact. and then about 4 long texts in a row on Thursday morning. i wont go into the whole saga of thursday because he is not getting any more air time!!
    Best wishes to you all!



  181.  #182tinque on November 5, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Mai –
    Katarina as far as I can tell is actually dating around, having sex with men other than her husband.
    I’m assuming, and forgive me if I’m wrong, that this is not what you’re looking for.
    CDing when married or in a serious, committed relationship means you keep yourself open to life, men included. You keep your heart and your eyes open as much of the time as you can. You smile at the men you see in the market, standing in line at the coffee shop, etc. You practice the 5 second eye to eye look. You talk to them, flirt even.
    If you feel open to having coffee with anyone who might ask, go for it.
    It’s really about being in wide eyed wonder at the beauty of the work around you, especially but not exclusively the fascinating people around you.
    xxoo



  182.  #183Chental on November 5, 2010 at 8:24 am

    What does it mean when someone tells you that you are unnaproachable??? I have been told this before, and am confused at what energy I am sending out

    Please help! 🙂



  183.  #184Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:34 am

    @167: Honey says:

    “My company is putting on a conference and my boss from my old company will be there and I will most likely have to speak with her.”

    Can someone give me a feelings statement for when she pulls this?”

    What do you mean by “pulls this?” When she is talking TO you or ABOUT you?

    If talking alone to you: “I feel uncomfortable hearing you say ‘________ __________’
    If talking about you, if possible add your “reminders” of the facts.

    If the woman is just a boorish jerk, don’t dwell on it; you won’t change her no matter what you say. Avoid her as much as possible and if she asks why, then tell her.

    SLV



  184.  #185Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:43 am

    @176: life_is_too_short_to… says:

    <i<"…it made me think and reconsider the relationship that I have with an old retired man and his dogs that i meet every so often in the park, and consider it CDing as well…"

    How old is he? If you tire of him, send him over to me… 😆

    SLV



  185.  #186BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Hope it is not raining too bad tomorrow as we won’t be able to go to the open day (no umbrellas allowed – security risk!!!)

    Friends and I have had great fun tonight on Facebook playing around with John Travolta youtubes, I think this one is my favourite 😀

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1e5h9YSe_k&feature=share



  186.  #187BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:32 am

    #130 SLV

    I think my curiousness was aroused when I got into reading a whole thread about cross dressing….

    Then on POF a pic kept popping up of a man in my age group who was sitting there in a black negligee and red lipstick so then I went and looked at his profile (as you do :D) then he looked at mine………and it was………so far out of my experience and my vibe…..

    It’s all an edjumucation right?



  187.  #188BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:33 am

    #79 Ella

    Yep I think it is your funny ol’ head LOL!!



  188.  #189BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:38 am

    #141 SLV

    Yes I saw AFTER I had posted that the original word wasn’t NEED it was SHAPE……..mmmmm…..maybe that was my subconcious thought………….NEED

    I do so much like the word STEP more than need or shape…..



  189.  #190BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:47 am

    #132 Lucy

    ((( HUGS))) That must have been so very hard for you. Sometimes our parents let us down dreadfully. I remember in my own physically abusive marriage turning for help to my parents when I was pregnant and newly married and very young and their attitude was you have made your bed now lie in it.



  190.  #191BarbinOz on November 5, 2010 at 9:54 am

    #151 Ankita

    Happy Diwali to you too.

    Maybe you need to get on here more and share, read the RR book, do the RR baby steps, it’s all about learning and moving forward………getting on your horse and putting the man on the back of it, not fixating on “him” the demi God we put on a pedestal and not fixating on “him” with our laser vision…….



  191.  #192Simply Shannon on November 5, 2010 at 10:21 am

    “Men will fall deeply in love with me regardless of when we have sex.”

    Yes Lucy. I wholeheartedly believe this is true.

    My own personal experience… had sex with my ex almost immediately. Yes he fell in love with me (and me him) but it didn’t last but a couple of years. Having sex didn’t really change anything in the long term love department.

    In my experience, once sex gets introduce, it’s like it’s the main thing discussed and the main activity. Sex doesn’t sustain a relationship. It only enhances it.

    I’m back to the icing on a cake thing.
    Sex is the icing.
    Love/relationship/commitment is the cake.
    Icing without cake is just yummy icing.



  192.  #193jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:35 am

    #172 – Lucy, that’s kind of an extreme negative example (and sociopaths that kill you parents are NOT ABLE to feel anything, and have no empathy and nor moral compass, so I think it’s also a bogus defence or example); but then you say Erika got rid of the negative beliefs she had keeping her from sex – and one of the guys you slept with showed back up.

    I feel frustrated -even when you say having or not having sex is – so they will fall for ME. What is it you want? What you can’t have? Because when you went out with WH – you weren’t that into him, nor TN, but once they were unavailable…they were dream lovers. Or was it more than one date and I’m thinking of the wrong stories – still the point stands. I have no idea other than sensitive and musician what you want and you’re on break from CDng, yes?

    Lately, you sound very take the opposite side for the opposite side’s sake on here to me, what do you think?

    Curiously,
    J



  193.  #194Rachel on November 5, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Banter … ah yes, banter. I had the most wonderful, fun, frisky banter all weekend with Soccer Dad. He seemed to love it and was leading all the way. And now I haven’t heard anything all week. =-(

    I really wish I knew why … but I’m refraininnnnnnnning from initiating.



  194.  #195Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    @186: BarbinOz says:
    “#130 SLV…so far out of my experience and my vibe…..It’s all an edjumucation right?…

    I think it all depends upon degree…didn’t you ever do some things in fun with a lover with whom you felt entirely adored, safe and secure? I saw some questions on OKCupid and I had a sneaking suspicion I could be titled “kinkier” and I am just a l’il ole grandmother…who’s celibate. 😆

    Why does OkCupid do that? Would you contact a guy that came up in others to look at group and it said “kinkier?” I wouldn’t. Seems kind of perverted?

    SLV



  195.  #196jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    This new eletter from Dr. Paul, which ironically is about bullying being about a hole in your boundary….has the perfect way to say what I’ve been saying about marriage and relationships – Normally people just assume the person who does that (often women do it too and the man feels hurt as you do, and doesn’t say anything), is “not into me” or even is a “bad person.” It could be a kind of bullying behavior if it feels truly mean-spirited as opposed to just difficult to discuss on his part. Sometimes it feels like we’re LOCKING THE MAN UP – and we’ve got such mad skills that no man is even going to realize that relationships are Voluntary – yes, even with or without sex?

    And what I think Rori says is more of be happy yourself, in the moment, in general – be curious, be feeling, be open. And we add all the lock or unlock to it? For ex. – the scripts – it’s to communicate deeply and allow a man to feel safe, yes? But that’s ALL it is – a communication tool. Or, have I missed something about it or misinterpreted something?

    So….Dr. Paul:

    So the second thing we all – both men and women – need to remind ourselves of, is that all relationships – before, during, and after commitment and marriage – are VOLUNTARY.

    We come to them only – and rightfully so – when we suspect the relationship will make our lives better, easier, more fun, happier, more secure, pleasant, comforting, enriching, and just BETTER than being single.

    Both the woman and the man too, must reach this conclusion about the relationship – we don’t OWE them to each other, ever. We do owe kids we’ve had together of course – that’s not negotiable. But the man and woman decide, yes, this person makes my life better and easier.

    Otherwise why would we – men or women – bother entering them?

    So men and women sometimes don’t get this message to each other accurately for fear that we’ll offend, or not say what the other person wants to hear or will make them happy. (after all, we do love the person)… then it doesn’t get discussed.

    Is it possible for a man to be on the rebound, or just want companionship, or just want sex? Sure. But chances are you can also pick up on those bad types intuitively, and chances are you didn’t go on more than one date with them.

    But for the rest, it’s possible he’s covertly asking you for more assurance (in man language) that his financial future is safe with you, won’t be overwhelmed, overlooked or taken for granted. Today, far more women are graduating college than men, and in singles without kids, women now make 8% more income than men in similar jobs – which many married men, divorced men, and single fathers are taking notice of and wondering about the financial prospect of marriage in general over.

    Both men and women want to know all the duties and responsibilities of commitment and marriage will be mutually partnered on, that you’ll both have voices about it, but also duties and responsibilities – which in this day and age are sometimes including equal financial and earning responsibility (or some equivalent trade-off in emotional support and assistance at the job performance of the primary wage-earner – which is often the woman.)

    It’s also possible that he’s telegraphing his current assessment of a less-than secure overall value to him of the relationship, and for both men and women money does come into the picture because money does make life easier, not harder. In other words, he may be genuinely worried about the prospect, not “better than you” in attitude, just worried. And while he won’t tend to express that worry outright, may nonetheless need some assurance and evidence from you about how things will work.

    You are right to note that being treated or taken care of financially makes one feel good, feminizes, and you’d also see in the Complete Feminine Empowerment Program and the Seventh Sense Program (on courtship behavior), that men feel great when they treat, provide and support. Yet his question might be even more about HIS ability to do so than your level of need, desire or expectation.

    With that, all you can do is decide whether he is too unconfident about it, or whether you can communicate more safety and security about your expectations. Your own personal judgment call.

    In the end, you might decide that you want something different, not something lukewarm or lacking passion. Or that the man is very set financially and doesn’t worry about it at all because he has such reserves built up.

    Or a man who hasn’t been through a divorce or suffered stigma or financial losses because of it.

    Yet, if you wanted the closest estimate of the real reasons he acts this way or that, you might open discussion of what would change about you in cohabitation, or in marriage as far as financial ability and responsibility, that both invites and addresses his concerns… or mutually reaches a joint, honest decision that you want different things out of a relationship to reach happiness more than can be had in the single life.

    Communication is always good, and it’s good to first assess whether there are uncommunicated concerns rather than assuming a lack of love, lack of passion, or “not being that into you.”



  196.  #197Rori Raye on November 5, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Chental, Welcome – and the ebook will help you with this tremendously – it will totally explain. Love, Rori



  197.  #198jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:47 am

    oops some of my cut and paste got in that first paragraph, funny but it still reads like a sentence. So, okay, I’ll run with that…

    @ HONEY –

    I love this quote from Scott McKay:

    It is my informed and therefore strong opion.

    How about a play on that –

    I have done considerable research and development since we’ve worked together and reached these conclusions personally. Thank you for your comments.

    I feel excited that I was able to take the groundwork we laid in working together and build on it to reach these new conclusions and theories, thanks again for getting the ball rolling.

    I don’t want my work to be considered the same as the work we did together, but I appreciate that it may seem appropriate to you to say that. But I’d feel better if you really considered my additions on their own merit.

    Smile….

    What do you think? And I hope it goes really well….and please share the end of the story with us!

    Best,
    Jacquleine



  198.  #199jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:50 am

    @ Mai – Katarina is seperated and dating possibly with the intent to divorce, as far as I know – but she’ll be around – she has a website, too – just click on her name. I really like her “freshness” in her way of looking at and expressing her truths!

    Hugs,
    J



  199.  #200jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:55 am

    SLV – I think on vanilla dating sites kinkier means something like you might do it in a car, or use a silk scarf….not anything really kinky. LOL….I’d guess they even ask that so that if you don’t want anything but straight missionary sex with the lights off you don’t get a guy who wants to spank your butt. Which is actually good. “Vanilla” is a term for general population – say something the majority of folks might do and feel a little forbidden thrill from…vs. kinky as in watch out if you google it!

    Hope everyone has a fab day today!!

    Happy Friday,
    J



  200.  #201Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 11:10 am

    @200: jacqueline says
    “…’ Vanilla’ is a term for general population – say something the majority of folks might do and feel a little forbidden thrill from…vs. kinky as in watch out if you google it! …”

    Yes, I understand how you are using the word but also appreciate your describing. : D I’m rather “vanilla-ish” about a lot of things but I’ll check out a whole bunch of stuff i’d never do just so I know for sure… 😆

    I went on YouTube and watch some vids. I remember long ago going to the cinema at the mall to see the original “Saturday Night Fever” movie. I went with my sisters and we barely got in before it was sold out.. We had big boxes of popcorn and big cups of soda… hahaha…so fun!

    SLV



  201.  #202jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 11:28 am

    SLV – I love an open mind – check out Fantasti.cc – it’s free, there are forums and I once had over 50 “fans” from pictures of only my feet! It’s not stuff I’d ever do for real but it totally opened up my mind and eyes to the fact that there are people who define normal in any way they want to and seek out others who do the same. For me, it was a fun and enlightening experience! But oh, yeah, it’s got some real strange kink on there…heeee….

    @ all – I need advice/thoughts – I have a good job offer with a good management company, apartments – but the property is definitely poor and in poor shape and the owners don’t want to make it better they just want to fill it up.

    My boyfriend is just throwing down making me miserable about it – says I’ll be unhappy, etc. Which is very likely true – but it’s a good job, $ and benefits – so who really cares if I’m happy? You know, as long as I’m not going to get shot.

    I think he’s really just scared to death to let me out of the house or something; but his genuine reaction to the property was bad. So, do I do something goal oriented because I can, or do I cave to his fit throwing and my own desire for comfort?

    Ideally, I’d like to work parttime, or at a nicer property – umm, but hey, isn’t it supposed to be hard to even get a job right now?

    Feels like heavy heavy sighing….

    thanks,
    J



  202.  #203Daria on November 5, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Tinque – about t-tapp

    Get smler! What? No way I don’t want to get smaller!!!

    You Will get smaller doing a bootcamp ( t-tapp term) basically doin it 4 to 14 days in a row then 3 weeks every other day.

    But it’s actually designed to be done not that often, like once ever 2 or 3 days is good.

    It will immediately boost your health, flexibility, posture.

    It’s an invaluable tool.

    And yes my guess is skin brushing will work for aging skin – have you gone to the forums and done a search on skin brushing? Most women on there are not young. Some are in their 70s. Alfalfa Really helps aging skin with skin brushing because it will increase collagen.

    Do not use other alfalfa because you will likely gain weight. Teresa picks her alfalfa in a special way to avoid this ( how I’m not sure, I suspect something about when it’s picked)

    The FORUMS are what to read on the site

    Dissapointment? Mmm I feel blessed with t-tapp the way I do with rori… Aha moments all the time, it just keeps getting deeper!

    Bodybuilders can use it off season to lean out bulky muscles, that is one thing, it leans out muscles.

    It works from the inside out too, using little muscles in the body and steengthening them.

    I love t tapp. It is magic… It’s a huge amazing practice.

    One can get results from doing just one 5 minute move 7 days. I’m talkin Big results. Health results.

    For example, I did primary back stretch four times in a row when I first tried t tapp – on the fourth day later I suddenly got a tingly feeling head to ankle, my inner tension melthrd and I felt I was made of jelly. Sitting in the car I felt none of the aches I commonly felt, which I didn’t even know could be absent.

    I am a dancer too. T tapp builds strength. It’s an amazing ally to dance or to martial arts.

    This t tapp thing is off the hook. Check the forums with the search button.



  203.  #204tinque on November 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Thank you Daria for all of this. So would you recommend a DVD series (which one) or the book or doesn’t it make a difference?
    From what I understand about the alfalfa is that as long as it’s organic, pesticide free, and has been processed so as to maintain nutrient integrity, other alfalfas other than hers will be as good.
    I ordered the brush and accompanying DVD yesterday and will go check out alfalfas tomorrow at the health food store.
    I still feel confused as to why her exercises are so awesome. It’s not that I don’t believe you. I do. I have many injuries that get in my way and wish to heal them further than I’ve been able to so far. Maybe she can help.
    Thank you again.
    Love and hugs.



  204.  #205Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Tinque – skin brushing twice a day alfalfa 6 a day eventually and quickly moving to 12 a day. You will gauge yourself.

    Exercises the basic workout itself is awesome.

    Fit and fabulous the book has a DVD on which the tummy exercise is included – that’s also awesome. It’s also in yry before you buy – called OIP half frogs – but only in a written article.

    Ladybugs pop (the move not the workout) is an amazing one for menopausal woman … And me! Lol … It balances hormones too.

    T-tapp twis I linked above is awesome too and shrinks ribcage



  205.  #206Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Tinque – no on the alfalfa other than hers. It will still have the skin effects… But regular alfAlfa promoted weight gain in a noticeable way.



  206.  #207Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    I have to vent now. A little riff…

    I don’t think I can be a feminine person…

    I got midnight e-mail from guy #4 that he’s stuck on software..

    Guy # 4 has been working on the software for three days and can’t get it to work…

    No one has seen him

    Using my siren feelings,,,I know KNOW he is losing face…stuck inside that man cave, hacking his little heart out…

    I figured that as he has more or less disappeared without a word

    There is time structure as I was waiting on thumbs up or down before I install software too.

    If I do anyway and install and it & it’s fine…I think it will be…

    Oh, well i don’t even want to think about it…

    Hehehe, I’m just a “taker” now… Let the guys duke it out!!!

    He must be still inside the man cave. The pressure must be intense as guy #2 has kicked his ass over a code challenge.

    So…instead of a software thumbs up OK from him

    few minutes ago he has written me second long e-mail but totally unrelated

    Here’s the kicker….

    It’s a resource solution I offered him about six months ago and he turned it down…. he said…

    He checked it…he said

    Not a good solution, no value in it…he said

    Well, it was just fine for me. Couple of months ago, he was perplexed, i offered again, try this…I said

    Oh, no good…he said…

    Now, (since he can’t get the new software running..)he has e-mailed me with glowing recommendation…he said

    of…. you got it. THE SAME THING I gave him which he pooh-poohed and said no, no, no doesn’t work.

    Now…he offers it to me with a full list of instructions! Telling me how to use it!!!

    The same info I gave him months ago! Only more basic and beginner-ish especially for me…

    And how wonderful it is…he said

    And how happy he is using it…he said

    It’s lots better than what he’d used before…he said

    and now he’s so hopeful to use it for a new project…he said.

    WTF!!! I wrote back a feelings message and the feeling weren’t very nice either

    I am so pissed. This is not the first time. This happens all the time. Don’t men have memories!!!?

    Do I have to hide in a cave too or just stay home and bake cookies all day. Well, I can bake some fab cookies too.

    I can do it all !!!

    Am I supposed to say, Oh, thank you kind sir for that amazing thing you discovered all by yourself. I will take it, use it, treasure it for ever and ever… she said

    Oh, my, aren’t you the clever one? … she said

    [I will never!! give you anything again]

    But you may continue to bring me baskets of gifts!!!

    I am wanting to slap him but he probably hasn’t eaten much in three days and would probably fall over…
    And he’s in his fifties and his heart is not that good.

    And he is only a friend platonic CD not a lover.

    I am practicing on him. All men seem to be like this,

    Can i find one who is not? Do I just forget it?

    Try to be a fake lesbian??? I bet they are just as bad…

    I am not even mad now…I am sad ths time. Sad is worse. i’d rather be angry.

    I wrote an e-mail but don’t really want to send it. It is a blaster…

    SLV



  207.  #208Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Yes… Its rehabilitative… I can say some of why her exercises are awesome, but it’s all blah blah blah

    I think because she designed them with an intuitive connection to the energy flow in the body.

    It’s like structural alignement plus tai chi, plus yoga, plus more stuff not really in that.

    But it’s one of those things that when you try it, you feel it. You get your own aha moments. It’s like the rori program.

    The secret again is to get in the basic stance-form and hold that throughout the exercise. Even doing the form alone, you can feel the way the muscles engage.



  208.  #209Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Slv – feeling angry and sad is not unfeminine?

    Ohh this feels terrible.. This is almost identical to the code I sent you twice! ( perhaps insert both codes for comparison)

    I feel really weird and well.. The truth is… Insulted to be sent this similar code back to me.

    I’m feing rather unacknowledged… What do u think?



  209.  #210tinque on November 5, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    nice…
    I’ll start with the book. 🙂
    xxoo



  210.  #211Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Life – wow actually when I read that, ” being a good girl is good for u’s, but bad for you”

    I read it as… It’s good for men, because they don’t have to compete as much, but bad for you, cuz you’re not fully in your power



  211.  #212Daria on November 5, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Tinque – book is good. Try out the OIP half frog exercises right away for 7 days they’re on the DVD. Those can be Dane as stand alones.



  212.  #213Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @202: jacqueline says:
    “SLV – I love an open mind – check out Fantasti.cc – it’s free, there are forums and I once had over 50 “fans” from pictures of only my feet!”

    Oh, i’m really not kinky at all. And I never did “get” the thing about feet. 😆 However, I think it’s something biological…maybe.

    “…so who really cares if I’m happy?…”

    You?! Isn’t that why you are spending your time at work? Unless you are considering this as a temporary desperation survival job. As described, it seems for you it isn’t a “good enough” survival job…which is an OK job which allows you to live OK outside of it.

    “..isn’t it supposed to be hard to even get a job right now?…

    Could be but you only need ONE. So maybe you could locate one you like better?

    SLV



  213.  #214Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    SLV, I used to have a female friend like that (was also my pastor) — I would suggest things to her and she would pooh-pooh my ideas… and then weeks or months later she’d come out with the same “revolutionary idea” herself — that I had told her about before!! It drove me crazy!!! And she always thought she was superior to me… We are no longer friends, and I’m glad.



  214.  #215Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    @209: Daria says:

    “… Insulted to be sent this similar code back to me.I’m feing rather unacknowledged… What do u think? …>i?”

    Thanks, Daria

    I think this is the tone I’m looking for. The resource is not code, it’s a network. But same deal. It was good information which he discounted and dismissed but NOW is using it and giving it back to me all excited and cheeful. Men are like children sorry to say.

    And explaining it in simplistic terms as if i wouldn’t understand how to use it. Ugh.

    The annoying part is he’s not trying to do anything bad. Makes it worse! And I’m getting fed up with men doing this sh*t. Handing me something with a big grin like they are doing me a favor because they have found something useful…totally forgetting that i knew about it first and tried it out already and they dismissed it without giving it a second thought. Hurts my feelings.

    I think I’ll add that too “hurts my feelings..” 😀
    Thanks, for the words. Maybe I will go eat first. I forgot to eat lunch; I’ll feel better with something in my tummy.

    He’s a good tech and has been a help; I don’t want to lose that; he can’t help it because he’s a man… 😆

    I”m going to enjoy a meal and let “my boy” figure out how to handle it to make things work for me.

    SLV



  215.  #216Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Being upset is not a good thing. It upsets stuff. That’s why I don’t like it.



  216.  #217Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Um… I feel confused and misunderstood….

    “but then you say Erika got rid of the negative beliefs she had keeping her from sex – and one of the guys you slept with showed back up.”

    Sure… what’s your point there?



  217.  #218Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “I feel frustrated -even when you say having or not having sex is – so they will fall for ME.”

    No, that’s actually the OPPOSITE of what I am saying. Katarina is saying that men won’t fall for you until you have sex with them. I am saying they will fall for me whether or not I have sex with them — the sex is not what “gets” them.

    So, sex is a non-issue in that respect. I don’t use sex to try to get a guy to fall for me, and I don’t withhold sex to try to get a guy to fall for me.

    I don’t do ANYTHING to try to get a guy to fall for me. I just be ME, do what I want, do what feels good to me… and if they fall for me, great! If they don’t, oh well! It has nothing to do with sex.



  218.  #219Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    “Because when you went out with WH – you weren’t that into him, nor TN, but once they were unavailable…they were dream lovers.”

    Completely and almost laughably untrue!!!

    I was totally and completely into both of them almost immediately — and they were also totally into me at that time. So, no, your assessment is completely off.

    I feel perplexed about that.



  219.  #220Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    “Lately, you sound very take the opposite side for the opposite side’s sake on here to me, what do you think?”

    I think No.

    I have agreed with many things on here lately, and there are a few I have disagreed with. I don’t always feel the need to express my disagreement. However, when significant things are expressed in an authoritative voice, I do feel it is important to tell other women (especially younger and/or less experienced women) who may be listening, that there are other opinions, beliefs, and research that support other viewpoints.



  220.  #221Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    “Because when you went out with WH – you weren’t that into him, nor TN”

    How I wish that were true! lol



  221.  #222Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Thanks for the Dr. Paul article, Jacqueline. He says what I was trying to say the other day about not wanting to just BE a prize, but HAVE a prize:

    “We come to them only – and rightfully so – when we suspect the relationship will make our lives better, easier, more fun, happier, more secure, pleasant, comforting, enriching, and just BETTER than being single.”

    Yes!! That’s what I want — a relationship with a man that makes my life better, easier, more fun, happier, more secure, pleasant, comforting, and enriching — better than being single…

    It has nothing to do with low self-esteem! It’s about wanting all those things that Dr. Paul talks about, and believing that I deserve to not settle for less.

    My son used to say, “Girls are too much work, too much trouble.” UNTIL he met the right girl for him! At that point, I said to him, with a twinkle in my eye, “What happened to ‘girls are too much work’?”

    And he said, “She’s not. She makes life easier, not harder. And better, not worse.”

    And she feels the same way about him. 🙂

    They plan to get married when they graduate college.

    They are gifts to each other.



  222.  #223Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    #174, no Lucy, you’re wrong. My statement is in the context of the “myth” that having sex early will make men disappear that I heard it purported time and again. That women have to hold off sex to show her values.

    It’s simply not true based on my and some other people’s experience.

    My view is you have sex because you WANT it, because it benefits you, not because you think what this might or might not work for you in attracting men (though in my case my sexuality is a strong factor).

    I have held off sex too because I didn’t feel like it.

    That’s the bottom line.

    Re. men fall in love with sex, well my last 3 relationships just started with sex and they turned out to be LTRs. I’m just giving you guys a contrast that sex can work to your advantage if the man is into you (so again, find guys who are into you and then relax).

    Sure you hear anecdotal evidence of guys fall in love and marry you for holding off sex (if he shares your values), there are always exceptions to the rule. But I live in a society in which men I’m attracted to are those who have options and don’t just view relationship from the female POV.

    Do whatever works for you, your values, your personality, your view of sex will attract the kind of guys who share those. So far, though 100% of my serious relationships start with early sex. That alone shows that sex is never one dimensional.



  223.  #224Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    And Lucy, sure I can have guys whom I’m not attracted to fall in love with me without sex. Those I’m attracted to, I have NO reason whatsoever not to have sex with….so it’s a moot point because I CHOOSE to have sex with guys I have chemistry with. What’s the purpose of being complicated if you love and enjoy sex (just so you can tell them how “good” a girl you are)?

    Tinque, I’m separated. Please don’t spread rumor that I’m f*cking around while being married. 🙂 I’m pretty much single right now, until I say yes to an offer of commitment to the guys I’m dating (there are only two I deeply love).

    I’m married on paper only. I spend more time and talk more with my Seattle husband than my legal husband.



  224.  #225tinque on November 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Sorry Katarina 🙂
    xxoo



  225.  #226Daria on November 5, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Katarina – wow i feel shocked to read that…

    I can see how not using the separated word might feel confusing reading her statement… and how I might feel triggered as the person written about

    and i feel triggered and angry by the assumption that Tinque is spreading rumours

    i don’t like that being ascribed to her. i feel angry reading that about her



  226.  #227Daria on November 5, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    ok now im extra confused…

    i feel confused whether Tinque Was actually attacking Katarina, or if she’s sorry for triggering her by omitting that word accidentaly

    blah



  227.  #228Daria on November 5, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    and i feel SOOO ANNOYED when people say something they seem to be angry about and then say

    *smile*

    im like ACCK!??? wtf is going on – it feels so weird reading/receiving that… i feel completely mistrustful and diconnected at that point

    trigger!!! i probably do this too, when i say “that’s funny”… or get that amused and numb feeling when i feel attacked

    hmmm



  228.  #229Daria on November 5, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    what am i feeling??? anger… mistrust… fear… powerlessness… fury…

    i feel like im being lied to ugh… i feel triggered

    hecka anger

    I feel so angry right now I hear strong ass voices

    this happens with a couple or more people on the blog for me

    happens with a lot of people

    hmmm

    i want to recognize it

    ugh

    ugh

    it feels disturbing

    my mom sometimes “ask innocent questions” that are attacks

    i feel so angry and stunned when these happen

    i feel absolutely furious

    i want words for this

    i want to express my feelings

    wow this feels really weird… i dont like being talked to like this

    UGGGGGGGGGH



  229.  #230tinque on November 5, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    In my case I feel sorry for having omitted the word, for on going back to read what I wrote it may have sounded like something other than intended.
    I can’t speak for anyone else.
    I think though that Katarina was joking when she wrote that.
    xxoo



  230.  #231Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Lucy:

    “I don’t do ANYTHING to try to get a guy to fall for me. I just be ME, do what I want, do what feels good to me… and if they fall for me, great! If they don’t, oh well! It has nothing to do with sex.”

    Thanks for mischaracterizing what I’ve been saying, that’s very uncalled for. 🙁 What’s wrong with you???

    I actually say what you say if you’ve been following my train of thoughts, that you should do WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE.

    However, most women in dating scenes have this GUILT about having sex (when should I have sex?) to the point that they believe that when to have sex will determine whether or not the guys will disappear.

    I, IN FACT, say that fact has nothing to do with sex. They disappear because they’re not into you. If they’re into you they’ll be willing to wait (for a while -don’t get complacent and think guys will wait for you forever like he has no other options, I’m just being realistic here) and they won’t disappear after sex no matter when (even FIRST date!!).

    If they’re not, no amount of sex will help you in that department. So which part that I’ve been saying isn’t in agreement with what you’re saying, Lucy????

    Yes, I did say sex can work to your advantage in making the fall-in-love process faster IF THE GUY IS INTO YOU -and you’re into him- (Isn’t it what you guys want…commitment? How can there be commitment without the process of falling-in-love, do pray tell? Now Lucy is saying it ain’t matter, it seems like she’s talking with both sides of her mouth. I find her full of it).

    What’s wrong with saying the truth without being extrapolated to the extreme the way Lucy did as if I was saying “f*ck around even if you don’t feel like it!”?

    I feel violated and extremely annoyed.



  231.  #232Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Daria, it’s all good with Tinque. She’s cool.



  232.  #233Daria on November 5, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I feel furious right now… i love my fury… and that feels like

    taking a deep breath

    i love my deep breath and that feels like

    hmph hmph

    i love my hmph hmph sound and that feels like

    tightening and shaking and relaxing

    i love my tightenuing and shaking and relaxing

    and that feels like

    chest tightening

    i love my chest tightening

    and that feels like

    mouth tightening

    i love my mouth tigthening

    and that feels like

    yawning and stretching big

    i love my yawning and stretching big

    and taht feels like

    smiling

    i love my smile

    and that feels like

    more ywaning

    i love my yawning

    and that feels like

    shakiness sobs in my chest and out my mouth

    i love my shakiness sobs and that feels like

    more yawning

    i love my yawning

    and that feels

    heehehehehehehe

    i love my hehehehehehe

    and that feels like

    moree hehehe and smiling big

    i love my hiehee and smiling big

    and that feels like

    yawning

    i love my yawning

    and that feels like

    kinda blank calmness
    i love my blank calmness

    and that feels like

    hmp hmph himph

    i lov emy hmph hmph hmph

    and that feels like

    yawning

    i love my yawning

    and that feels like

    more lil sobbing

    i love my lil sobbing and that feels like

    lil tightness in my chest and blank calmness

    i love my lil tightness inmy chest and my blank calmness

    and that feels like

    big yawn

    i love my big yawn

    and that feels like

    lots of hmmph heehehehmm

    i love my hpmph hehehe hmpp

    and that feels like smiling big and giggling

    i love my smiling big and giggling

    andt aht feels like

    Thirsty!

    gonna grab water

    and yawning



  233.  #234Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Thanks Katarina and Tinque – heads up tho when i say stuff im processing my own triggers so I might be feeling triggered off yall stuff when both of you are good or not even intending certain things



  234.  #235Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    omg Katarina was joking! haha see I got triggered there for example and i heard what i heard and pow… off on my own trigger

    so much better to not judge this is so my trigger its always about me !



  235.  #236Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    It feels really weird to read stuff like “what’s wrong with you???”

    i don’t want to read that kinda stuff here on Rori non-judgement practice blog

    (though i often hear the voices in my head saying it)



  236.  #237Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Eww, it feels super-weird to read, “no Lucy, you’re wrong.”

    Eww eww eww



  237.  #238Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    it seems like shes talking with both sides of her mouth… and i find her full of it

    also feels bad to read… i feel cold and disconnected instantly and WALLS UP ready to defend against attack

    feelig angry

    i dont want that on the blog rrrr

    note to self – great job for erasing similar statements earlier lol



  238.  #239Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    “But I live in a society in which men I’m attracted to are those who have options and don’t just view relationship from the female POV.”

    Me too! Absolutely!



  239.  #240Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    “Thanks for mischaracterizing what I’ve been saying, that’s very uncalled for. 🙁 What’s wrong with you???”

    EWWWW. I feel upset and angry and rapid heartbeat reading these words about me!!!

    That feels AWFUL to read and I am SURE it is not what Rori wants happening on here (“What’s wrong with you???”)

    Apparently Katarina is triggered. I feel glad about that. I feel hopeful you will find some healing from this, Katarina.

    I feel triggered by what feels like an attack on me. I also feel glad about that because I can use it to heal something.



  240.  #241Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    I also feel curious and surprised that my words triggered Katarina. Wow. Why did they trigger her, I wonder….



  241.  #242Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Yeah, because you are wrong, Lucy. You instilled your own prejudice in what I’m saying so I need to point it out.

    Any other way to say it? Like maybe “you’re not right?”

    Will it make you feel better?



  242.  #243Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    “I find her full of it”

    🙁

    🙁

    🙁



  243.  #244Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    I appreciate your comments, Daria. I feel supported (even though I realize you are processing for YOU).



  244.  #245Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I feel angry to see attacks on blog members…

    this is how I would reword “you are wrong”

    wow, I feel misunderstood and pissed off…



  245.  #246Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Katarina, you obviously perceive me (Judge me) as “wrong.” That does not mean I AM wrong.

    I don’t want to feel judged or shamed.

    Thank you for this opportunity to check in on NV’s that want to judge or shame me. How ya doing there, NV’s? Here’s a cookie. It’s alright. You’re fine. I’m here for you. No worries. I love you. Deep breath. There there. *pat on head* Okay now? Good. 🙂

    Whewwwww.



  246.  #247Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Lucy, stop playing this “trigger” game. The fact is you mischaracterized what I’m saying to the extreme. It seems like you almost did it on purpose (just playing devil’s advocate maybe?)

    I’m like a broken record to you, I have to repeat myself over and over and none of my point gets through.

    I refuse to get sucked in RR blog’s drama. Not my style. Y’all know till now I have always been above the fray. You managed to make me feel so violated so I had to speak out. Congrats.



  247.  #248Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    “I feel angry to see attacks on blog members…”

    Me too.



  248.  #249Ella on November 5, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Oww the blog feels weird/angry to read tonight!

    “If they’re into you they’ll be willing to wait (for a while -don’t get complacent and think guys will wait for you forever like he has no other options, I’m just being realistic here) and they won’t disappear after sex no matter when (even FIRST date!!).”

    It feels scary/weird to read about how a guy won’t wait for ever because he has other options so we should not be complacent.

    I thought it was about us… and every situation was unique. Therefore it is best to be on our timescale.

    This is the truth for me. Keeping the focus on us (women) is the focus for me.

    Also it feels weird to read that guys will not disappear after sex even on 1st date…
    I know it is judging etc however I have sooo many guy friends who would do exactly that, EVEN if they were really into the woman.
    I know in an ideal world it would not be so, however I have seen this happen so it is something I am wary of personally.

    I will always follow my feelings, however for me if I really like a guy and I want something more with him waiting a while for sex would always be the best option and feel most comfortable.



  249.  #250Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Katarina, I have no idea why you feel “violated.” I feel so surprised and shocked by that!

    I was only expressing my personal beliefs, experiences, and observations.

    I am sorry you feel so bad.

    I am not responsible for your feelings, but I am sorry that you feel this extreme emotion.



  250.  #251Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Also, I don’t want to be told what to do (“Lucy, stop playing this “trigger” game.”)

    Telling people what to do is not in keeping with Rori’s guidelines for HER blog.

    Not to mention, it’s not very feminine.



  251.  #252Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Talking about male POV in dating, just got this (ladies, beware!) from David DeAngelo:

    Oucchhh…. just when we think we can get our ways with men, sure enough, there is a male dating guru who told men to not be sucked in the “female game.”

    Why Paying For Dinner Is A BAD Thing

    It’s a FACT: right now, most single women are
    feeling frustrated and unsatisfied with the men
    they’re meeting. That in mind, I have to ask you…
    WHY AREN’T YOU TAKING ADVANTAGE
    OF THIS SITUATION?
    If you’re still “sitting on the bench,” there can
    only be 2 possible reasons for it:
    #1) You have so many women chasing you that
    you don’t even need to try.
    Or…
    #2) You’re dealing with obstacles like anxiety, fear,
    or lack of self-esteem that
    destroy your chances of success before you even
    get started.
    If #2 sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you can
    CHANGE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW…
    and it’s easier than you think.
    Learn why here:

    http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/DeepInnerGame/

    ***DATING QUESTION FROM A READER***

    I have a question concerning dating and when/when
    not to pay for stuff. At what point (if any)
    should I pay for both of us when dating? I don’t
    want to get the woman into the mindset of
    “courtship.” What should a man pay for when he’s
    dating?

    “DOUBLE YOUR DATING” has changed me for the
    better. I look forward to getting your advance
    dating series.

    Sincerely,

    M.

    >>>MY COMMENTS:

    This is a common dilemma that most men face…

    “To pay or not to pay, that is the question.”

    Here are some of the problems that “paying”
    creates:

    1. It sets you up as the one who is “pursuing” the
    woman, which symbolically gives away your power to
    her.

    2. It can be expensive.

    3. It usually causes women to play even “harder to
    get”.

    4. It triggers all kinds of “courtship” behaviors.
    Like her making you prove yourself, waiting to
    have sex, etc.

    5. The places you’ll be going to “pay” are often
    not the best places to actually get to know
    another human being. Movies, fancy dinners, etc.,
    aren’t natural environments and they don’t lead to
    people “being themselves”.

    So, what’s the alternative?

    Well, the FIRST thing you should do is CHANGE
    THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT “DATING”… and “paying”.

    Most guys just naturally assume that if they’re
    “taking a girl out” that they need to take her to
    a show or movie, a nice dinner, etc.

    And by the way, this is actually part of a much
    BIGGER issue… that most guys feel OBLIGATED to
    give things to women, buy them things… and
    basically PAY for their attention and affection.
    If you’ve got a “bad” case of this, then I
    recommend that you get your hands on a copy of my
    “Deep Inner Game” program. It will help you change
    all of that BAD programming, and build a self
    image and a powerful self confidence that will
    make women feel more NATURALLY attracted to you.
    Details are here:

    http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/DeepInnerGame/

    Of course, these are basically the WORST places
    to go with a woman in the beginning because, as I
    mentioned above, they aren’t very “natural” places
    to be.

    Instead of asking a woman “out to dinner”, try
    this…

    When you’re talking on the phone about getting
    together say, “Let’s meet for a cup of tea. This
    way, if YOU turn out to be a complete freak, I can
    run away easily.”

    This will get a laugh, and it will get her
    thinking to herself, “Wow, this guy is qualifying
    ME.”

    Also, suggest a place that’s close to your
    house, in case you want to invite her over
    afterward.

    When you meet for tea, actually drink tea (or
    iced tea). Because coffee makes your breath nasty
    and tea is perceived as a more “classy” drink.
    It’s also cheaper than a latte or a mocha.

    After you have tea for 30 or 60 minutes, decide
    how YOU like HER. If you want to continue say
    either:

    “Hey, let’s keep talking. I want to shop for a
    bit, come along.”

    …or…

    “Hey, let’s keep talking. Where are you parked?
    You can follow me…” (to your place, of course).

    In either case, just assume that she will go
    along with whatever you’re doing, and she almost
    always will if you’re doing a good job of being
    Cocky & Funny and keeping her attention.

    If you do go out “shopping”, go to a funky
    alternative neighborhood that has tattoo shops,
    record stores, ethnic food restaurants, etc. Every
    city has an area like this, so go there.

    These places are SO GREAT because they have fun
    and interesting conversation BUILT RIGHT IN.

    If things are going well, and you’re enjoying
    the time with her, you can then have her follow
    you over to your place. Again, just tell her that
    you’re enjoying the conversation, and that you’d
    like to continue… and for her to follow you.

    Total expense (if you pay for her tea and
    yours):

    A few bucks.

    How much better is this than taking her out to
    an expensive meal and trying to have a normal
    conversation across a table while being forced to
    look right at each other all night?

    You do the math.

    If you actually do a little creative thinking,
    you can figure out ALL KINDS of great things to do
    that cost little or no money at all when you go
    out with women.

    Extra bonus:

    When you don’t do “normal” dating things, women
    will tend to play “hard to get” less. They’ll
    expect less in the way of gifts and money spent on
    them and they’ll actually HAVE MORE FUN.

    Really.

    You mentioned above that you’re going to be
    getting my Advanced Dating Techniques CD Program.
    Good choice!

    It contains a workbook and about 18 HOURS of
    digitally recorded and edited audio and/or video
    that’s JAM PACKED WITH HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of
    great techniques for approaching, dating, and
    getting physical with women.

    The guest interviews alone are priceless.

    Of course, it comes with my “try it before you
    buy it” no-risk guarantee.

    If you’re not THRILLED with it, just send it
    back to me and you won’t be charged at all.

    In fact, I’ll send it to you and even pay the
    shipping, just to let you TRY it out. I’m serious.

    I know it’s going to help you meet women. Go
    to:

    http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/AdvancedSeries/

    …for the details.

    And if you’re reading this right now, and you
    haven’t yet downloaded my online eBook “Double
    Your Dating”, you really need to get a copy. It’s
    the foundation for everything I teach in these
    newsletters, and it will make EVERYTHING about
    women and dating make more sense.

    It’s at…

    http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/eBook/

    I’ll talk to you again soon.

    Your Friend,

    David D.



  252.  #253Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Okay, sorry, I shouldn’t have said that about it not being feminine.



  253.  #254Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    I feel angry hearing that working with triggers is a “game” when it is so much a part of Rori’s work for healing and wholeness.



  254.  #255Ella on November 5, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I thought the point of Rori’s teachings are that none of us is ‘wrong’, just different opinions?

    Also we cannot make each other feel anything. We take responsibility for our own feelings and if someone else’s opinion tirggers us we accept it for that, rather than that they are trying to annoy us….

    ??



  255.  #256Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Talking about male POV in dating, just got this (ladies, beware!) from David DeAngelo:

    Oucchhh…. just when we think we can get our ways with men, sure enough, there is a male dating guru who told men to not be sucked in the “female game.”

    Why Paying For Dinner Is A BAD Thing

    It’s a FACT: right now, most single women are
    feeling frustrated and unsatisfied with the men
    they’re meeting. That in mind, I have to ask you…
    WHY AREN’T YOU TAKING ADVANTAGE
    OF THIS SITUATION?
    If you’re still “sitting on the bench,” there can
    only be 2 possible reasons for it:
    #1) You have so many women chasing you that
    you don’t even need to try.
    Or…
    #2) You’re dealing with obstacles like anxiety, fear,
    or lack of self-esteem that
    destroy your chances of success before you even
    get started.
    If #2 sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you can
    CHANGE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW…
    and it’s easier than you think.
    Learn why here:

    http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/DeepInnerGame/

    ***DATING QUESTION FROM A READER***

    I have a question concerning dating and when/when
    not to pay for stuff. At what point (if any)
    should I pay for both of us when dating? I don’t
    want to get the woman into the mindset of
    “courtship.” What should a man pay for when he’s
    dating?

    “DOUBLE YOUR DATING” has changed me for the
    better. I look forward to getting your advance
    dating series.

    Sincerely,

    M.

    >>>MY COMMENTS:

    This is a common dilemma that most men face…

    “To pay or not to pay, that is the question.”

    Here are some of the problems that “paying”
    creates:

    1. It sets you up as the one who is “pursuing” the
    woman, which symbolically gives away your power to
    her.

    2. It can be expensive.

    3. It usually causes women to play even “harder to
    get”.

    4. It triggers all kinds of “courtship” behaviors.
    Like her making you prove yourself, waiting to
    have sex, etc.

    5. The places you’ll be going to “pay” are often
    not the best places to actually get to know
    another human being. Movies, fancy dinners, etc.,
    aren’t natural environments and they don’t lead to
    people “being themselves”.

    So, what’s the alternative?

    Well, the FIRST thing you should do is CHANGE
    THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT “DATING”… and “paying”.

    Most guys just naturally assume that if they’re
    “taking a girl out” that they need to take her to
    a show or movie, a nice dinner, etc.

    And by the way, this is actually part of a much
    BIGGER issue… that most guys feel OBLIGATED to
    give things to women, buy them things… and
    basically PAY for their attention and affection.
    If you’ve got a “bad” case of this, then I
    recommend that you get your hands on a copy of my
    “Deep Inner Game” program. It will help you change
    all of that BAD programming, and build a self
    image and a powerful self confidence that will
    make women feel more NATURALLY attracted to you.
    Details are here:

    (deleted)

    Of course, these are basically the WORST places
    to go with a woman in the beginning because, as I
    mentioned above, they aren’t very “natural” places
    to be.

    Instead of asking a woman “out to dinner”, try
    this…

    When you’re talking on the phone about getting
    together say, “Let’s meet for a cup of tea. This
    way, if YOU turn out to be a complete freak, I can
    run away easily.”

    This will get a laugh, and it will get her
    thinking to herself, “Wow, this guy is qualifying
    ME.”

    Also, suggest a place that’s close to your
    house, in case you want to invite her over
    afterward.

    When you meet for tea, actually drink tea (or
    iced tea). Because coffee makes your breath nasty
    and tea is perceived as a more “classy” drink.
    It’s also cheaper than a latte or a mocha.

    After you have tea for 30 or 60 minutes, decide
    how YOU like HER. If you want to continue say
    either:

    “Hey, let’s keep talking. I want to shop for a
    bit, come along.”

    …or…

    “Hey, let’s keep talking. Where are you parked?
    You can follow me…” (to your place, of course).

    In either case, just assume that she will go
    along with whatever you’re doing, and she almost
    always will if you’re doing a good job of being
    Cocky & Funny and keeping her attention.

    If you do go out “shopping”, go to a funky
    alternative neighborhood that has tattoo shops,
    record stores, ethnic food restaurants, etc. Every
    city has an area like this, so go there.

    These places are SO GREAT because they have fun
    and interesting conversation BUILT RIGHT IN.

    If things are going well, and you’re enjoying
    the time with her, you can then have her follow
    you over to your place. Again, just tell her that
    you’re enjoying the conversation, and that you’d
    like to continue… and for her to follow you.

    Total expense (if you pay for her tea and
    yours):

    A few bucks.

    How much better is this than taking her out to
    an expensive meal and trying to have a normal
    conversation across a table while being forced to
    look right at each other all night?

    You do the math.

    If you actually do a little creative thinking,
    you can figure out ALL KINDS of great things to do
    that cost little or no money at all when you go
    out with women.

    Extra bonus:

    When you don’t do “normal” dating things, women
    will tend to play “hard to get” less. They’ll
    expect less in the way of gifts and money spent on
    them and they’ll actually HAVE MORE FUN.

    Really.

    (the rest is advertisement, deleted)



  256.  #257Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Hi! I hear Katarina saying she takes a stand on that it is not bad or wrong to have sex with someone whenever you feel like it. And that having sex with men actually can give you a kind of power in the situation. I agree – I have had 3 5+ year relationships that started as nothing more than a one night stand for me – and developed. I’ve never found it to be a negative, and indeed have found it to be a positive, especially because I was doing what I wanted with really no attachment to anything from the man.

    And, I hear her saying that knowing the mind of a man – or thinking like one – can be very effective in influencing how you behave in a relationship. It can, for example, keep you secure and not obsessive over does my butt look big when you realize he’s just amazed at naked skin, or when you want to talk about what are you thinking and he’s thinking….of football, or not at all (per Cosmo, esp. after sex!)….so there’s a value to that as well.

    And she’s an expert at it – which I agree. Katarina is very good at owning her own rules, power and voice.

    But, Lucy, I still don’t know what you are saying – you took each of my sentences and refuted it, but never actually expressed an opinion or your truth (which is consistent with my experience of our talking…)and that might be triggering?

    The example of sex addiction as a defense for murder seemed to me to be almost a taunting trigger for an arguement against sex. And it felt disingeneous to me, surely one would expect that to elicit a reaction?

    And I’ve obviously got the history of WH and TN wrong, my apologies – but the point is they did not fall and you’re sad – so where are we or you in the process of using the tools to make sure the next one you want to fall does indeed fall?

    Because you say they all fall easily and without sex, and it’s jut that you don’t want them.

    So, how will you find one you want and what will you do differently from participating here with Rori’s tools?

    And, are you advocating sex, not advocating sex, saying men fall in love and marry and sex means nothing – or that you can get them to fall in love and marry you and then you can have sex with them which you know will be great because you’ve got really good gut feelings?

    And for me – there really seems to be no “young” ones on here to be easily influenced. But if there were, I do not know what you are advising or advocating in any way.

    So, that’s my take on why it’s triggering and if you want me to have a clear understanding, that’s great.

    If not, I’m good.

    J



  257.  #258Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Hi Ella. Sorry for my part in the weirdness/anger here tonight. 🙁 It doesn’t feel good to me, either.

    “It feels scary/weird to read about how a guy won’t wait for ever because he has other options so we should not be complacent.”

    Ella, most good men I know (who have options) respect the girl they fall in love with and will stick around and wait for her to be ready (even if it’s til marriage). They love HER — they don’t WANT some other girl even if that other girl will have sex with them this minute.

    Men are really very beautiful and loving.

    Occassionally I meet a decent guy who would dump a girl for wanting to wait — but all that means is that they weren’t a good match to begin with (IMO).



  258.  #259Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Lucy, I can say that you are wrong about my thoughts because I know my thoughts. That’s what the “wrong” means in the context.

    Why can’t I say it as it is?

    If I say “you think men are evil,” won’t you say I’m wrong?

    And of course I would be because you never said that. Hence, your mischaracterization of what I say is wrong. And it’s not being judgmental. It’s just fact. And I gave you a reason why it is.

    Not everything has to be said in feeling messages. You need to talk in both factual (masculine) and subjective/feeling (feminine) ways. I chose to get my point across in that particular case in a factual way. I’m sorry if that offends others but then again that’s not my responsibility how others are feeling…just like you say.



  259.  #260Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    and SLV…thanks for the job encouragement – I went back by there today and well – it’s soooo bad that I’m sure I can only improve it. haha….which actually feels good. Means I can count on a “win,” and get those benefits and a management position back on my resume.

    and once I’ve voiced a clear opinion, my boyfriend seems to be more agreeing of it – I feel that sometimes, if I’m not 100% clear and or certain – if I leave wiggle room….people decide to give me their opinions. That’s odd and interesting, huh?

    Probably one of the reasons I’ve always got an opinion.

    Thanks!

    Jacqueline



  260.  #261Ella on November 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Owww, that stuff from the male dating coach feels bad to read.

    And so unnatural.

    What a shame that a battle of the sexes has to be set up in this way.

    It makes me feel shaky.

    BUT – the Rori tools have helped me feel better, more authentic and closer to men than I have before. So I will stick with them.

    I will also choose to be the feminine, lean back one, and to me this feels more natural. Isn’t it how it has always been?



  261.  #262Ella on November 5, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Lucy,

    No need to apologise.

    I think this is where most of the learning takes place. Through these discussions and differences.

    But I also felt angry/sad as it felt as though you were being attacked.



  262.  #263Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Jacq, I love your “masculine” eloquence (if one really believes that matter-of-fact eloquence is a masculine trait, I don’t). I’d like to highlight a few points:

    “The example of sex addiction as a defense for murder seemed to me to be almost a taunting trigger for an arguement against sex. And it felt disingeneous to me, surely one would expect that to elicit a reaction?”

    Yup, spot on! Precisely what I’m saying. I feel my words being taken out of context too and twisted to the extreme that I don’t intend to say.

    There are always exceptions to the rule, Lucy seems to be more than happy to harp on them to make them appear commonplace.



  263.  #264Daria on November 5, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    stop playing this “trigger” game. – this feels bad… it’s a judgement of someone and an attack accusing them of playing games

    ::I’m not feeling heard and I’m feeling angry… I don’t want feelings like “triggered” ascribed to me::

    “The fact is you mischaracterized what I’m saying to the extreme.” –

    the person seems (guess) feel misunderstood and they are stating it as a fact of someone did

    you HURT me… vs… i feel bad

    ::I felt really misunderstood and I don’t want my words to be misinterpreted… reading that felt bad and I feel angry about it::

    “It seems like you almost did it on purpose” — assumption/judgement about other’s intentions…

    ::i feel mistrustful… I felt attacked ::

    “(just playing devil’s advocate maybe?)”

    genuine curiosity — this felt great to read

    “I’m like a broken record to you, I have to repeat myself over and over and none of my point gets through.”

    ::I feel frustrated.. I feel like I’m a broken record and I feel consistently unheard

    “I refuse to get sucked in RR blog’s drama.”

    I have a few expletives running through my mind and I sent love to them. I feel SOOO TRIGGGERED AND INFURIATED WITH THIS JUDGEMENT

    I DO NOT!!! WANT THIS BLOG CHARACTERIZED AS DRAMA’

    I FEEL ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS LIKE RAGING FUC*KIN FURIOUS

    maybe.. ::I feel unsafe on this blog

    Not my style. Y’all know till now I have always been above the fray.
    — judgement, put down I’m better than you statement

    ::I’m feeling furious and I don’t want to argue

    “You managed to make me feel so violated so I had to speak out.”

    Blaming other for feelings… blame statement

    “I felt violated and I didn’t want to be silent about feeling that way”

    Congrats. – sarcasm, attack -blame ascribing intentions to the other , judgement

    “I’m really feeling angry”

    ****
    FEELING MESSAGE POSSIBLE REWRITE

    I’m not feeling heard and I’m feeling angry… I don’t want feelings like “triggered” ascribed to me

    I felt really misunderstood and I don’t want my words to be misinterpreted… reading the interpretation of my words felt bad and I feel angry about it

    I feel mistrustful… and I felt attacked

    I feel curious if you were just playing devil’s advocate maybe?… I feel unsure

    This feels so frustrating!… I feel like a broken record, like I repeat myself over and over and none of my point gets through. I’m feeling totally unheard.

    I feel unsafe on this blog. I’m feeling furious and I don’t want to argue. And I felt violated and I didn’t want to be silent about feeling that way.

    I’m really feeling angry



  264.  #265Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Ella – hi! ummmm…that male dating coach is a very close friend of Rori’s …grin…and wow! I sure hope guys never read it! But sigh – they do – I’m good with the it’s a few bucks, but the repeated you can get her to your place? Ewwwww 4 sure!

    Now IF I were to feel that “game” was being played on me – sex would be a looooong loooong time happening, or actually, it just wouldn’t be happening!

    Horrah for male courtship behaviors!! May they continue to endure, and may we continue to appreciate them!

    By for now yall….

    Jacqueline



  265.  #266Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Oh my. Jacqueline.

    “But, Lucy, I still don’t know what you are saying – you took each of my sentences and refuted it, but never actually expressed an opinion or your truth”

    I feel frustrated and amazed that you are unable to see that my opinions and truths are presented here there and everywhere on this blog. I feel baffled by this.

    It feels weird and alarming hearing that I gave an “example of sex addiction as a defense for murder”!!

    “an arguement against sex” ????????

    I am VERY pro-sex!!!!

    It feels really weird being so grossly misunderstood.



  266.  #267Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I feel triggered about the David Deangelo and even Christian Carter, and even Evan Katz, and even Baggage Reclaim stuff…

    Before Rori’s stuff, I studied David Deangelo’s stuff, I even have his programs — and I tried to use them on men! hehe.. I figured I wasn’t a typical girl anyway, I thought “I know how to think like a man” and “men and women are pretty much the same to me” so this should work

    it didn’t work

    then I tried some of Christian Carter’s stuff, but I was already a REALLY COOL girl and already thought I knew how guys think…

    and I jsut felt weird… I didn’t understand how to be feminine… or fully believed that that’s what men wanted (soft)

    this is because I always attracted LOTS of male friends by being hard, and acting just like them, so I had way more male friends than my other female friends… I always got respect from these men so it felt confusing to me

    then I heard Rori in one of Chrstian Carter’s interviews… first i felt skeptical… and then something she said really caught me, It was about being soft and feminine and men getting into our HEARTS… I never really heard this concept and it was to me WAYY different than anything else

    So i get curious about stuff that’s way different, like sushi, I want to check out what is THIS about… I started getting her e-letters, and they started raising my self esteem and lift me out of depression right away

    yum!



  267.  #268Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I also had Dr. Paul’s letters about the Warrior, King, Magician, Lover archetypes… and i felt limited by them.. and sad.. grrr

    I also got from him that a good thing to ask men is

    “what is your mission in life as a man?” early in dating, and then say you support him when he tells you

    only RECENTLY i just got – from doing Rori tools of opening and curiosity –

    that that question I should ask and actually FEEL CURIOUS lol… about what his mission is,,, not just to ask it to pull him in

    /LOL!! supa amusing to me

    and… I feel so excited because with Rori’s tools I now feel like it DOESNT MATTER, what archetype, I ATTRACT ALL MEN all kinds of men… and can have relationships with all kinds of different men

    what a relief

    there are NO limits… no war of sexes

    just magic, me and Goddess power



  268.  #269Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    @ Daria – re Katarina and #262 – are you saying you read someone killing someone’s parents and feel no emotional reaction or trigger? That’s just as “icky” as anything else – and I hear, “no, you’re wrong,” as “no, you’re wrong. I meant this…..” and somehow that is being made wrong when it’s not wrong.

    It’s obvious Katarina’s feeling misunderstood, etc. and I get why.

    I don’t get why it has to be reworded, reviewed, judged and a kinder gentler way recommended to her?

    Anway, thanks Kat – to me you’ve been really clear and you go girl. I like your POV here.

    And everyone else, have a great nite!

    J



  269.  #270Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Daria, your rewrites are VERY helpful to read.

    This one jumped out at me:

    “Blaming other for feelings… blame statement”

    I think that’s why I feel so triggered here — in my family, I was the “scapegoat” and I went along with that role all my life — accepting blame for eveything. I have healed a lot of it, but apparently not all of it. This is a good opportunity to heal it some more. To not accept blame…. To feel angry, but not internalize the blame.

    Thanks!



  270.  #271Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Daria re 263 –

    wow, that is amazing! 🙂



  271.  #272Renee on November 5, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    I feel angry reading, “What’s wrong with you?” on this blog!!! That feels like an attack to me!! It makes me want to get mean and defend another siren who was expressing her own, valid viewpoint!!!

    Is there not enough room o this blog for women to have various views on how/when to incorporate sex into a relationship? Is there always “one” right answer surrounding this issue?

    Ella — I agree with you 100%. I know of guys who are actually pretty decent men and who do seem capable of having fully loving relationships with women who, fairly or not, will judge a woman for having sex on the first date. Some men don’t, and that’s great, but many men do and it would be naive to assume that doesn’t happen in light of all the evidence I’ve seen (often times from the outside looking in) that it does.

    This is also a valid point of view and does not negate someone else’s views or experiences.



  272.  #273Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    What stands out to me in the David DeAngelo article is that the man clearly states:

    I DO NOT WANT TO GET THE WOMAN IN THE MINDSET OF COURTSHIP.

    This man is not seeking to court this woman(s). That’s ok! He’s a human, he’s entitled to NOT want to court a woman.

    And he can still get an answer to HIS concern…

    so he is now going to be answered to learn how to NOT get a woman in the mindset of courtship.

    ***

    This man, when he meets a Goddess woman, will either CHANGE his intention and decide to court her, or simply fall away, because he is not available to court a woman at this point.

    Not a biggie!



  273.  #274Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Daria, thanks for the tips on rewriting what I said in feeling messages. I’ll use them on my lover(s) when the needs arise. 🙂

    You’re the master of feeling messages. Brava!



  274.  #275Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Jacqueline, to answer your question of where I am in my process… I have talked about it and processed it a lot on the last two threads. I don’t want to explain it or reiterate or summarize it right now.



  275.  #276Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    As far as the rest of your questions, I believe I have answered them already on these recent threads, and apparently you did not understand what I wrote. I am truly sorry for that. Like I said once before, sometimes it seems you and I speak two different languages. I do the best I can to be as clear as I can with my words. I am sorry it’s not clear for you.



  276.  #277Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Daria re 266…

    Yes – me too! I also got the Christian Carter stuff too… and some other dating coaches stuff, and it kinda helped a bit, on a surface level, but it alway felt inauthentic.

    When I first found Rori Raye stuff it seemed kinda wierd and ‘out there’ but when I tried it, it made me feel so much better and more real. And men are softer towards me and I feel more loved.

    Then I hear the experiences of others on here also doing RR stuff and that just cements my experiences of it.

    I still use some of the stuff from other dating coaches too. However the Rori stuff for me is like the ‘deeper’ level I needed.

    I hope this stays true for me.



  277.  #278Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I feel really happy with this day. I finished the book, The Happiness Project”, and I am feeling super inspired.

    Then I went out and did some errands and connected with some sweet people…just random people, but I the energy felt so sweet between us. I just feel very content and happy.



  278.  #279Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Oh! I think I see what’s happening! #262, Katarina… When I was talking about the murder, that had nothing to do with YOU!! nor your ideas!!!

    I wasn’t twisting anything you said, because I wasn’t talking about YOU or your words at all!!!



  279.  #280Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    David: “Let’s meet for a cup of tea. This
    way, if YOU turn out to be a complete freak, I can
    run away easily.

    Daria: LOL! I feel amused… and a little weird hearing that… lol…It would feel nice to meet you

    David : (Also, suggest a place that’s close to your
    house, in case you want to invite her over
    afterward.)

    “Let’s meet here (by my house…)”

    Daria: ohh… actually … I don’t like to be the one to come to a man… what do you think?

    David: (I have no clue what he might say I;ll make it up)

    “oh come on, don’t be a brat”

    Daria: ohh… that feels a bit weird… I’m not interested in coming to a man

    David: “why not?”

    Daria: I feel more feminine when the man comes to see me.

    David: thats so out of date… this is 2011

    Daria: ohh… hmm… im starting to feel bad… and I’m not interested in coming to a man. I don’t want to do that… It would feel cool to see you, but I don’t drive to men… what do you think?

    David: alright, where do you want to meet?

    Daria: mmm, anywhere nearby would feel cool

    David: but I don’t know your area, it woudl be so much easier to come to my area

    Daria: mm… Im not interested in driving to men… It would feel cool to see you but Id feel better to stay near me…

    David: ok so what do you want to do then

    Daria: I don’t know… I feel curious what you can come up with.. whatever you think of will feel great I’m sure

    David: how can I come up with something if i don’t know your area?

    Daria: I don’t know… anything would feel cool… there are some parks and restaurants arond here … it would feel nice to just meet you real quick

    David: ok give me the address

    —– I have had this CONVO SO MANY TIMES LOL —



  280.  #281Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Katarina – wow ! I feel so surprised and glad that you enjoyed them…

    I was actually feeling terrified of being attacked… I felt kinda guilty that it might be triggering to you for me to rewrite your post in feeling messages

    and i feel so relieved! thanks for hearing me YAYY



  281.  #282Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    (((KATARINA)))

    love the lover(SSSS)



  282.  #283Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    I feel very open to other’s viewpoints and decisions around when to have sex.

    For me, what resonates most strongly is…

    You can’t do the wrong thing with the right person.

    With LI, I had sex pretty early on. I didn’t intend to, I was just open hearted and it was our natural progression. I felt a little scared he would think badly of me but he didn’t.

    The ironic thing is, I hadn’t had sex for two years before that.

    I was following my heart and being in the moment. I wasn’t trying to win him. In fact, I’m extremely hard to get in the sack but he just had the right moves. 🙂

    yum!



  283.  #284Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    DeAngelo’s article doesn’t bother me because the kind of men I like are the ones who would read that and say, “Huh? I don’t feel obligated to buy her dinner and presents and all that stuff — I WANT to do all that stuff! because I love women and I want to find a woman who will LET me spoil her like this because I love it!” 🙂



  284.  #285Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Laughing Goddess, I agree completely. 🙂



  285.  #286Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Daria, I rarely take anything from anyone personally, hence I avoid most of the drama. I genuinely enjoy your rewrite because I might need them one of these days with these 2 husbands I have…at least. 🙂

    I’m okay with Lucy now too. I just need to make my point across and not being misinterpreted.



  286.  #287Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Wow, Daria! Great observation!

    “so he is now going to be answered to learn how to NOT get a woman in the mindset of courtship.

    “This man, when he meets a Goddess woman, will either CHANGE his intention and decide to court her, or simply fall away, because he is not available to court a woman at this point.

    “Not a biggie!”

    Yes, of course!! 😀 Thanks!



  287.  #288Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    No Lucy #279, it’s not that. What you said below is what I say is “wrong”:

    “Katarina, your belief around sex feels very limiting to me (“Men won’t fall deeply in love with me until we have sex”) as opposed to a more freeing belief (“Men will fall deeply in love with me regardless of when we have sex.”)

    Having your belief will make it so.

    I would rather not have such a limiting belief — that way I can follow my feelings and do what I want, without thinking “oh, it won’t work.”?
    It feels much better to be free.

    As far as I can tell (since you referenced her), Erika did not adopt a limiting belief such as yours (“Men won’t fall deeply until we have sex” — she actually got RID of a limiting belief (“I’m not allowed to have sex.”)”

    I don’t have that limiting belief, hence you’re wrong. I just believe that no matter when I have sex, if he’s into me and he’s the right guy for me he will stick around. (SG did and we’re crazy for each other).

    I apologize if I overreacted in my previous posts. I just was feeling so mischaracterized of saying I never intended to say.



  288.  #289Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    When we meet up, we have tea, lunch, smoke, talk in the park what not

    David: “Hey, let’s keep talking. Where are you parked? You can follow me…”

    Daria: mm… i feel bit weird… i don’t want to actually follow you anywhere.. but i feel open to spending more time with you…

    David: oh, well do you feel comfortable to go in my car?

    Daria: mmm sure… i feel good with you

    David: (drives us to funky neighborhood where we laugh and look at tatoo shops)

    Daria: when thirsty… I feel thirsty… what do you think?

    David: (will get Daria something to drink)

    at end of trip

    Daria: well i feel ready to go home now

    David: ok, ill take you back

    Daria: it felt so fun with you!

    David: yes it was great we should do it again soon… next time you come to me

    Daria: ohh… haha… I don’t come to men… but it felt great to meet you and it would feel lovely to see you again

    David: ok call me then when you want to get togethere

    Daria: ohh… hehe… I don’t call men either. I feel better when the man is in charge of calling and making date plans and stuff… It would feel lovely to hear from you

    David: wow you are a handful huh. OK I will call you

    Daria: ok bye!

    David: bye beautiful

    Total expense (if David pays for her tea and
    his + her water):

    A few bucks.



  289.  #290Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Daria – “I have had this CONVO SO MANY TIMES LOL”

    So the guy goes back to his dating coach, David DeAngelo, and says, “WTF, I tried your ideas on this girl, and all of a sudden I’m finding myself courting her!!! What happened???”

    And David says, “Ohhhhhh, you musta gotten one of Rori’s girls….”

    🙂



  290.  #291Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Daria re 279 –

    Me too! In fact I had it just yesterday. Except maybe not quite as eloquently. But I still got the point across and stayed with feeling messages.

    I wimped out when it came to saying ‘I do not feel comfortable driving to a man’ and instead said ‘I do not feel comfortable driving over to you in the dark’.

    I had already said I did not want to drive to him.

    Also had similar convo with another guy the other day… and kept outgirling him when he was aking me ‘what should we do then?’

    It felt good.



  291.  #292Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    “I’m okay with Lucy now too”

    Oh good! I’m glad to hear that, Katarina!! 🙂



  292.  #293Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Lucy @ 289…

    Lol, love it! 🙂



  293.  #294Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Guys will NOT disappear after sex on the first date – they might… have some warngling with their own beliefs about what it means to them (like if they make judgements)

    but they will get over it quick if they are INTO the woman… and if she’s INTO herself

    Guys just don’t disappear… men are loyal that way

    they COME BACK!!!

    even if he disappears (because of his issues, judgements) , he will usually COME BACK

    might be after a certain amount of time, but he will come back there

    this only happens when men meet a woman they like and respect

    they can tell her vibe in 5 minutes, they can tell whether this is a Goddess they are dealing with or a girl with low self esteem that they don’t want to really get involved with

    and sometimes they want to get involved with a girl with low self esteem too, because it feeds their hooks and triggers

    so yeah…. Sex means nothing

    self love is everything



  294.  #295Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    #283, LG, right on!

    This is also to respond to Renee:

    “Ella — I agree with you 100%. I know of guys who are actually pretty decent men and who do seem capable of having fully loving relationships with women who, fairly or not, will judge a woman for having sex on the first date. Some men don’t, and that’s great, but many men do and it would be naive to assume that doesn’t happen in light of all the evidence I’ve seen (often times from the outside looking in) that it does.”

    Question is if you can’t be your authentic self without being judged, why do you want to be with these men? And mind you you’re having sex on first date with them too, right? So they are as guilty as you are, right? But you allow them to judge you as less worthy of a woman while he’s free to do the judging unscathed?

    Why are you condoning double standard? How can these men be the right guys in the first place?

    Thought an important part of being a siren was being your authentic self? Now you’re saying we have to heed what men think of our sexuality too?

    Decide, which do you choose? You can’t be both.



  295.  #296Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Lucy – but see, he still only spent a couple of bucks so he will be happy

    or if he’s not into her he will just stop calling… (or say some things she won’t feel good about and she’ll no longer be interested in answering his texts or calls as much)



  296.  #297Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    “I don’t have that limiting belief, hence you’re wrong.”

    Oh. Well, I’m pretty sure I read it on the other thread, written by you. I won’t hold you to it, though.

    Thank you for apologizing.



  297.  #298Daria on November 5, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Men Judge, Women Judge

    but it has nothing to do with HEART Attraction !!

    well except that it can block it lol

    but the attraction will simply slip under his judgement filters

    he’ll just think, wow, Im so feeling this girl!

    even tho in 99% of times with a diff woman he woud think JUDGE



  298.  #299Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    There’s an important cocktail party waiting for me and i don’t want to go.
    Why?
    1. I am about to get my period and I want to sit at home and be still

    2. My ex will be there and he is an asshole. Yes, that is mean and judging, but he choked and hit me and I stand by that assertion

    3. Because my ex will be there, I feel like I need to look good, because I feel afraid that if I don’t, he won’t feel like I didn’t deserve his physical abuse.

    He was really shallow and abusive. It’s been 2+ years but I still feel trapped in some things.

    I feel frowny.



  299.  #300Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Mmmmm, I’m wondering about the sex thing. I’m wondering why some men leave after that. I wonder if it has something to do with what kind of energy the woman has while having sex. I feel curious and pondering.



  300.  #301Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Reasons I need to go
    I am becoming increasingly important and people want to see me.

    I feel like a party favor

    I think I always wanted this. Just not tonight. My uterus feels heavy and so do I. I just want to take care of me.



  301.  #302Renee on November 5, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Katarina — I can be whatever I want to be and your beliefs/experiences don’t change mine. You don’t get to tell me what I can/can’t be.



  302.  #303Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I feel sad reading some of the posts here? Why does it make me sad? It feels bad to read. I feel weird seeing people accuse others of things that I see them doing. Why does that feel bad? I don’t want to focus on that. Can I not get triggered? Can I choose to let it go for me? Can I choose to let it go and not let it disrupt my evening? I feel bad letting myself get riled up over the way others choose to communicate. I don’t want to let this distract me from my lovely day.

    I choose to ignore it and trust that everyone is getting what they need out of the interaction. I choose bliss because I want to treat myself to that.



  303.  #304Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Daria #289 and Lucy #290, LMAO….

    Daria #294…so eloquent. I particularly loved this:

    “Guys will NOT disappear after sex on the first date – they might… have some warngling with their own beliefs about what it means to them (like if they make judgements)

    but they will get over it quick if they are INTO the woman… and if she’s INTO herself”

    Yesss…!!! That’s the key, and that’s been my experience: she’s in love with herself. She doesn’t radiate that neediness and bad feeling -that comes across as whiney- for being a “bad girl” after sex that makes her SOOOOO attractive to guys.

    “so yeah…. Sex means nothing

    self love is everything”

    Girl…you speak my language, love it!

    Get your self-esteem in order and have sex when you know you will enjoy it with the guy(s) who deserve it, the rest will take care of itself.

    Guys won’t leave you just because you’re horny. Hell no!! That’s what they want. How do you think guys who love sex so much can do without sexual girls?



  304.  #305Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Dorothea,

    What do you FEEL when you think about going to the party?

    And what do you FEEL when you think about not going?

    Just curious.

    I have a similar situation in Dec (although hopefully w/o the period) with a party where my ex will be at with his new woman.

    As there was abuse in your case the most important thing is to feel safe!



  305.  #306Ella on November 5, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    I agree with ths stuff about feeling GOOD and no guilt when you do choose to have sex, whenever that may be!

    Yes yes, feels good to me!



  306.  #307Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Renee, I’m not telling you anything. I’m asking you a question and questioning the consistency of your statement (being authentic vs. worrying about what men think).

    We’re brainstorming here, anyone can do whatever the hell they like, obviously.



  307.  #308Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Daria: re:297

    I agree on that.

    Me going into thinking mode…

    I think a guy may judge a woman for having sex early if he’s not really into her to beginning with. Also if she makes herself too available in other ways. If she doesn’t give him a challenge.

    But if he’s into her, and doesn’t make herself too available in other ways…if he still has to work for her, I think he will consider himself blessed that she was willing to have sex with him even though she has a high degree of difficulty.

    Caveat…this is me pondering based on my experience. Not meant to be a statement of THE truth. 🙂



  308.  #309Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    That’s what I was thinking, too, LG — it happens that way when he wasn’t really into her and just wanted to get laid. That’s why it’s important for us to have sex when WE want to.



  309.  #310Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    The person planning the party noticed both me and my ex were on the list, so he said to me that he would tell the ex not to come. He said just tell him how he should handle it, and he would do it.

    and i said…don’t worry about it, I can handle it, etc.

    silly overfunctioning me. i just didn’t want to be a diva for vague reasons (no one knows my ex was abusive).

    what if i thought of some tools

    what if i went and enjoyed this thing i always wanted – being at a party where i’m one of the attractions and reasons for it happening?

    what if my ex tries to make conversation with me? ok ok see THAT is my biggest and truest fear. not that he won’t feel any remorse or will feel justified in abusing me, but that he WILL, and will want me back so bad. this is actually pretty likely. this is my fear.

    i feel unworthy of rejecting him. i feel awkward going from being with someone for 2 years and then not even wanting to talk to them. i feel guilty. i think about all the ways i deserve to be abused.



  310.  #311Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Or… here’s a thought… if we have NV’s judging us around our own sexuality, we may attract that same judgment from men as a mirror — with the universe’s intention of us learning and healing from it. What do you think?



  311.  #312Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    I never had a man leave me after sex, but I did have a man judge me (even tho he stayed hehe) when he asked if I would do a “swap” with another couple and I told him I would think about it…. He judged me for being possibly OPEN to the idea after HE was the one who wanted it!!

    But, see, it made sense, because my own NV’s had been judging me for even having sex with him in the first place… and living with him… because at that time in my life, I carried a lot of shame around sex (NO MORE!! YAY!!)…. so it made sense that he found a way to judge and shame me… cuz I was doing it inside myself…. Mirror… That was his job.

    (Yay for TN man for helping me heal all that guilt and shame!!)



  312.  #313Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    LG:

    “I think a guy may judge a woman for having sex early if he’s not really into her to beginning with. Also if she makes herself too available in other ways. If she doesn’t give him a challenge.

    But if he’s into her, and doesn’t make herself too available in other ways…if he still has to work for her, I think he will consider himself blessed that she was willing to have sex with him even though she has a high degree of difficulty.”

    Great point and I agree.

    Being “cheap” isn’t about when to have sex but whether or not you have your own life. If you’re so into yourself, so in the moment in your sensual exploration (so uninhibited) and is fulfilled with other aspects of your life, you need not worry guys will dump you just because he gets in your pants.



  313.  #314Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Oh, Dorothea, sweetie, you don’t deserve to be abused!! (((HUG)))



  314.  #315Renee on November 5, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Lucy — You have been various gracious tonight on the blog…I admire that.

    Dorothea — I have no words of wisdom to impart other than I empathize with how you’re feeling and surely you know in your heart that you didn’t deserve abuse, don’t you? Do whatever you need to do to take the best care of you…whatever he thinks be dam*ed!



  315.  #316Renee on November 5, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    That should have been “very” gracious…AD withdrawels are still fogging my brain.



  316.  #317Ella on November 5, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Dorothea,

    I am hearing that you have feelings of being unworthy and therefore that you deserve abuse? Maybe a NV?

    However you do not deserve abuse in reality. No woman does!



  317.  #318Ella on November 5, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Night night.



  318.  #319Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    @214: Lucy says:
    “SLV, and then weeks or months later she’d come out with the same “revolutionary idea” herself — that I had told her about before!! It drove me crazy!!…”

    Crazy!!! Is right. And the sorry thing is I told him TWICE. The first time when he was “thinking” about his project and the second time when he was working on it, coding everything by hand…because he is a “geek snob.” And now he is so excited about his new tools… and couldn’t wait to share the excitement with me…failing to notice me going all rigid… and quiet. 😆

    SLV



  319.  #320Ella on November 5, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Sorry re 316

    Meant to say as well maybe these feelings are coming up to be healed?



  320.  #321Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    LG 302,
    I feel triggered as hell when things get that way here. I felt soooo awful through and through and indignant until recently. I acknowledge my bad feelings but I don’t say anything about it anymore. Usually the drama surrounds some topic i haven’t even participated in or invested in, so it doesn’t make sense to jump in and call out someone for how they’re acting. But that is getting away from the point:

    I don’t want to “defend” but instead support. So instead of saying “OMG Erika why would you talk down to someone about their depression when no one ever asked you? Don’t you know that makes you horrible!” or even acknowledging that I have some problem or feel anger with what someone here said, I would address the recipient of the triggering “meanness” and say “I just want you to know I don’t think you’re XYZ.” “I don’t think you’re purposely not snapping out of your depression and I don’t think you want to stay depressed,” said to the person needing “defense” feels so much better to me than hitting up the attacker with “what you said sucks.” Of course, we might say “that feels bad,” to the ‘attacker’ but we all know it is just feeling speak for ‘i think what you said sucks.’

    Then that’s the end of the story for me as far as addressing it here goes. Mos def I am going to feel angry and triggered a million potential ways, but I can process my triggers here from behind my computer screen. I don’t have to put them here for all to see.



  321.  #322Renee on November 5, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Exellent point, Dorothea.



  322.  #323Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Thank you, Renee, that means a lot to me. <3



  323.  #324Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Haha Lucy and Katarina! Seems like we all agree…

    It’s best for the woman to have sex when she feels good about it.

    Yay! Weeee! I love that all I have to do is follow my heart.



  324.  #325Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    LG,

    “Yay! Weeee! I love that all I have to do is follow my heart.”

    Is there any other way, dear?

    It just kills me when a woman believes guys can do whatever they like with their d*ck without being questioned, while women can’t with our own bodies. For the most part, IMO, our own insecurities and the perceived social dictate complicate things that should be so simple.



  325.  #326Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Dorothea: Ya, for me right now it feels quicker and easier to process my triggers on my own and not really verbalized them to the person who is triggering me. That’s not meant as a judgement towards anyone who may be doing that here. Just saying what feels best for me right now.

    If someone chooses not to hear the wisdom I am trying to share, I figure it’s their loss…or maybe it just doesn’t ring true for them. Which is okay. And if someone is communicating in a way that’s “offensive” (for lack of a better word), I don’t have to try and change them, but I can take note and make the decision not to do that myself.

    If someone is blatantly disregarding Rori’s request for using feeling messages and not attacking, I feel better about just going directly to Rori and asking her to handle things.

    We’re all doing our best and we’re all learning and I love that I get to choose what I want to focus on. That feels good.

    I like your idea of supporting the person you think is being picked on. I can see how in the way you described it comes from a genuine desire to support vs a taking of sides.



  326.  #327Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Katarina: Yes, I hear you.

    For me, I feel best when I am being in the moment and following my feelings.

    For me that means being open to sex when I feel safe and turned on…at whatever stage in the relationship that might be.

    But it also feels good to me to accept that other woman may have a different path.

    I think I get where you are coming from and why you are sharing your experiences…because you want to let women know that they don’t have to choose not to have sex due to low self-esteem or social dictates or because they think that’s how they will get a commitment from a man.

    For me tho, it feels important to accept that a woman may choose to wait to have sex for her own reasons…that it may be her way of following her heart. That not everyone who says they are going to wait is doing it out of insecurity, social moors, or an agenda. Know what I mean?



  327.  #328Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    LG, I feel curious about this:

    “If someone is blatantly disregarding Rori’s request for using feeling messages and not attacking, I feel better about just going directly to Rori and asking her to handle things.”

    That idea had flickered across my mind earlier tonight, just for a moment, but then I thought it would be better to work through it without involving Rori if it could be done without spiraling out of control. What do you think?



  328.  #329Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Lucy #297,

    ““I don’t have that limiting belief, hence you’re wrong.”

    Oh. Well, I’m pretty sure I read it on the other thread, written by you. I won’t hold you to it, though.”

    I’m sure I might have sounded like that since I’m a believer in the power of sex in bonding both men and women.

    The difference being romance and friendship is sex. When a guy is feeling romantic toward you, sex will likely seal the deal and hasten the process if that’s what a woman wants -at least it’s true in a society that is open to pre-marital sex, the same can’t perhaps be said as true in countries like Saudi Arabia of Afghanistan, for example. Until you guys have sex, it pretty much feels like friendship with love interest. He won’t be so sure if she’s really that into him (remember, he has feelings and emotional needs too).

    Yeah guys can fall in love without sex (in my younger days, my bfs fell in love without sex) whatever distance that falling-in-love takes. But I don’t think they will feel like they have the whole you until they are allowed to be intimate with you (isn’t it why he’s special in the first place?) -unless of course you live in Saudi Arabia. 🙂



  329.  #330Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    Lucy:

    “Or… here’s a thought… if we have NV’s judging us around our own sexuality, we may attract that same judgment from men as a mirror — with the universe’s intention of us learning and healing from it. What do you think?”

    yes! Yes yes yes yesyes yes yes!



  330.  #331Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    @264: Jacqueline says:
    “…that male dating coach is a very close friend of Rori’s …grin…and wow! I sure hope guys never read it!…

    Oh, Jacqueline…they do. My male alter-ego does too. I/he subscribes. I must admit after reading a few I was turned off but when I “research” I’m thorough and I’ve read far worse in the last month or so.

    BTW, SLV is the “real” me; everything I write here is 100% totally “me” but I do have a “boy” version e-mail account that I use sometimes.

    Hahaha. i forgot and opened by OKCupid with the “boy” account even though it was for me. 😆

    SLV



  331.  #332Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    LG,

    “For me tho, it feels important to accept that a woman may choose to wait to have sex for her own reasons…that it may be her way of following her heart. That not everyone who says they are going to wait is doing it out of insecurity, social moors, or an agenda. Know what I mean?”

    Yes, I have always said wait if you feel it’s best to wait.

    I’m not advocating women to spread their legs to whomever wants them to.

    I’m advocating to have sex without guilt because there is no need for it. This is for women who deep down love and enjoy sex but are so concerned/conflicted about how that might end up in the mens’ heads.

    If you truly are confident -out of self-love- that you don’t want to have sex now, then nobody can or should stop you from doing it.

    I hope this is the last post on the subject that I have to say this (since I have said it countless of times).



  332.  #333Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Lucy: #327

    That feels good to me if you feel up to it. You seem to be managing just fine and it’s great practice for communicating in the “real world”.

    I admire the way you are handling yourself.

    I honestly don’t even understand what the disagreement is about. I feel neutral about it and can see both points. But I did feel triggered by some judgements I read. I just don’t feel up to trying to get people to change the way they communicate. I just want to learn from their example and try not to do that myself anymore…although I know I have many times before. And also see through the judgements and remember the person making them still deserves understanding and love.



  333.  #334Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Okay, I was very curious about this, so I went back and checked.

    Yesterday, Katarina, you wrote, “The caveat is men rarely feel in love until they have sex with you.”

    That is the statement that led me to write:

    “your belief around sex feels very limiting to me (“Men won’t fall deeply in love with me until we have sex”)”

    So I do genuinely feel confused about what transpired here tonight.



  334.  #335Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Katarina: haha! I noticed I started to feel guilty that you had to explain that again but then I realized you didn’t HAVE to, you chose to, silly!

    I get what you are trying to say about a woman not feeling guilt around having sex. It feels good to hear reminders of that.



  335.  #336Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    I feel sad, because I hadn’t at all tried to start a conflict. I had thought I was responding to Katarina’s intended words, and simply expressing a different belief.



  336.  #337Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Thank you, LG, I appreciate hearing that.

    Yes, I thought, too, that it was great practice for the real world! I want to be ready for my man!!! 🙂



  337.  #338Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Yeah, “truly” fall in love, Lucy…that’s what I mean.

    And the key word is rare. Again, there is no really romantic relationship until sex…at least it’s true in our society and at our age (maybe in our teen years, we fall in love routinely without sex like once a week 🙂 ).

    Before sex: a strong interest/attraction to a woman…he’s into her.

    After sex: a man is in love, ’cause he has oxytocyn to help him bond with her in the most fundamental way. It is powerful alright.

    Sure there are still exceptions of guys waiting till marriage to have sex. More important to ask is not whether or not it can happen but why.

    Why are you so against sex before marriage? What’s holding you back? Couldn’t those things be a problem later in your marriage -a sign to deeper emotional problems? Those are issues one has to deal with.



  338.  #339Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Dorothea: so some part of you believes you deserve to be abused? Are you scared of talking to him because you don’t trust yourself to keep strong boundaries around him? I’m not trying to third degree you here, just wanting to explore more deeply if you’re into it.

    What exactly are you afraid of?

    For me, sometimes when I really look at what I’m afraid of, it kind of melts away the fear because I can then see that I don’t really have to be afraid of that.

    Is LI going to be there with you?



  339.  #340Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    But Lucy #336, we don’t have a different belief for the most part.



  340.  #341Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Lucy: I feel sad that you are feeling bad. I don’t see this as a conflict, more of an exploration and discussion and something that we can all learn from.



  341.  #342Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Okay, Katarina, this was exactly what I was talking about at the beginning of all this. 🙂

    I fundamentally disagree with everything here:
    ………….

    Yeah, “truly” fall in love, Lucy…that’s what I mean.

    And the key word is rare. Again, there is no really romantic relationship until sex…at least it’s true in our society and at our age (maybe in our teen years, we fall in love routinely without sex like once a week ).

    Before sex: a strong interest/attraction to a woman…he’s into her.

    After sex: a man is in love, ’cause he has oxytocyn to help him bond with her in the most fundamental way. It is powerful alright.

    ………………..

    I simply disagree with that perspective, and that’s all I was saying earlier. If you believe that, it’s fine!!! I don’t want to try to change your belief. I was simply saying that I don’t agree with that belief, and that it feels limiting to ME.



  342.  #343Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    LG, it felt like a conflict to me when I was hearing things expressed to me in a way that felt awful to hear. I am all for exploration and discussion… but it feels like “conflict” when… well, you know… I think.



  343.  #344Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Ok then, if you say so…

    I guess it goes to the definition of “falling in love.” There is no way to objectify it. And how often/rare, can anyone give out statistics on it?

    This is hardly empirical…so it’s a waste of energy to debate it.

    Bottom line is, again, sex can only help when you’re both into each other and wanting it and one shouldn’t hold off sex just because of unfounded fear of being dumped/judged negatively. We can at least agree on that, can we?



  344.  #345Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    LG, LI is not coming and if he were I would ask him to stay home because I don’t want to witness any fights tonight lol.

    Oddly enough, I saw him included on the email and I responded to all on it that I was going to be there, and he hasn’t mentioned it. So I am going alone yay. Sincere yay



  345.  #346Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    “Why are you so against sex before marriage? What’s holding you back? Couldn’t those things be a problem later in your marriage -a sign to deeper emotional problems? Those are issues one has to deal with.”

    Hmm. I feel unheard. I have never said anywhere on here that I am against sex before marriage. Nothing is holding me back, which I have also said on here.

    I feel confused and unheard, because I have written SO much on here about being all for sex, having sex, loving sex, etc.

    Help!



  346.  #347Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Lucy: I get that. I would imagine that it doesn’t feel good to hear those things, especially when you are trying to not to communicate in that way yourself.

    It certainly didn’t feel good for me to read.

    But ultimately it boils down to having faith in ourselves. Those voices can only really trigger us they are mirroring some doubts we have within ourselves.

    Not to minimize your feelings. I know it’s easy for me to say when I’m not the one on the receiving end of the attacking words.

    But ya, it’s good practice for not taking things personally. 🙂



  347.  #348Daria on November 5, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Ladies guess what! while i was writing my story my mom came in and wanted to speak to me…

    I’ve been practicing having a boundary of not immediately dropping everything when she wants something

    and i did really well this time!

    I told her…

    “Im feeling tense, because im in the middle of something and… I want to hear you… I’m not sure if it’s a quick something or a little longer … if it’s longer i will be able to fully listen in like 5 minutes”

    so she starts looking at my screen… which feels triggering and scary to me… but i just felt my feelings and allowed it, because I don’t want to be hiding my true self from people

    and shes like well what are you doing?

    i said “mm im writing a story”

    and she’s like… so is it THAT important>

    and I said

    “yes, this is very important to me”

    shes like well i just want to talk to you

    i said “oh… it feels so hard to concentrate right now, I can speak to you in 5 minutes”

    she says… so why can’t you stop it?

    “mm it feels important because im in teh process of writing it and i need to keep my concentrattion”

    I actually DID NOT feel angry, much less intense

    and she left

    and then 10 min later i went down and we talked!

    the talk was really intense (about how they’re embarassed that people will say, Look at them, they have money and they won’t help their daughter, she’s filing for bankruptcy)

    and i spoke clearly about myself – i still felt angry and scared, but spoke CLEARLY

    i said I feel uncomfortable with receiving help this way because I don’t feel helped… it seems like this is more about you, rather than actually HELPING me,

    so she actually talked about stuff and did come to the conclusion that tehy would feel guilty to not help me

    and im like… im ok with bankruptcy, because i have no money

    and i dont want to allow myself to be mistreated by anyone in my life no matter what situation

    i will consider help from you guys, if its offered sincerely to help me, though i feel comfortable with taking care of this myself…

    i dont feel comfortable with help that comes with conditions…

    and i don’t want to tolerate being threatened, or bullied, or have my stuff taken over

    i made it pretty clear to her that i am ok with moving to a shelter if necessary (I feel so excited I am feeling comfortable with this thank you thank you angels – i used to feel terrified before this summer)

    she’s like well then why haven’t you, you must prefer living here even the way you think ure being treated bad

    i said, yes I do prefer it, i prefer leaving the house for a few hours when i feel upset, to living in a shelter, but not by much

    she said well everything would change, this is happening because of your history and because we don’t like your lifestyle

    i said:

    well i don’t know Why it is exactly… but nonetheless i still don’t want to accept being treated badly by anyone

    and she says, what about you treating us badly

    i said i dont’ feel like i treat you badly, i don’t intend to, i am very careful about this and i am truly doing the best i can

    and she’s like well maybe we’re not trying to treat you badly either

    i said… well i can’t say about you, but yes, we are probably all doing the best we can

    shes like, well if you jsut change your lifestyle, get a job, and stop going out at night, we won’t feel like we’re treated badly

    i said … i don’t want to not go out at night, and i don’t want to work at something that doesn’t completely fulfill me at this time, perhaps in the future i might feel like this is best for me, but at this point i dont

    shes like well we don’t like this lifestyle

    isaid
    well it is of course your right to not like my lifestyle… and i don’t want to change my lifestyle because someone else doesn’t like it, it is my life… and you have the right to feel whatever you feel about it of course

    she said well dont you think that being financially secure is something you want?

    i said : well let me think about it… here she interrupted me and i rasied my voice and said i didnt want to be interrupted…

    anyways i said that, well, i feel its important for me to have food and a place to live that’s not cold and where i can bathe, and take care of my children when I have some…

    but other than that, im not sure financial stuff is important to me at this time

    and she says well rather than living in a shelter, wouldnt it be better to get a job

    i said no, to me a this point that would not be better… im not interested in haveing a job that doesnt feel 100% good to me … perhaps in the future it might be something i will feel i want to do , but at this time no

    and wow… this is my truth!!

    go me!!

    i refuse to feel bad about who i am

    i also said at one point that i feel open to being helped… but i must baseline feel respected to accept that as actual help…

    and she said well its because of your history

    i said well i don’t feel helped unless the hlep feels good to me… i dont want to be accept my life or who i am being put down

    yayy!!

    and we actually even talked money facts, like that if the banks settle at 20% and my dad wants to really help me … then i’d be ok with that, but more i might feel too cumbersome to me to think about psychologically, and it would feel better to me to handle it myself to bankruptcy… and that to me that Is taking care of myself

    I feel delighted!! it felt scary and angryfying but so much LESS than other times… wow i kinda feel really good about myself… and i even felt heard (like on the leaving the house thing… she shared that she sometimes tries to remember to leaves the room when my dad is doing that (I wonder if she got that from me… i don’t remember her doing that much before I started practicing tools and doing it myself))

    yaya yayayaa

    so cute!!

    and i noticed better interactions between my parents overall…

    more clear speaking and noticing their own feelings…

    I am having a huge influence

    I am so awesome

    everything is GREAT AND LOVELY!!!



  348.  #349Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    I had a feeling you would misunderstand the word “you” and voila…

    I didn’t explain that “you” here isn’t you, Lucy…but generic you because I thought I waited till the subject came up.

    So here it goes…it’s not you personally, but you in general.



  349.  #350Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    I am feeling tired and heavy from pms and i do not wish to go. nothing bad will happen and no one will be mad if i don’t go. i think i might choose to stay home. i don’t want anyone here to think i am chickening out because i don’t feel like i am. i feel like i shouldn’t be going out, period.



  350.  #351janjune on November 5, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    i wondered if there was a goddess or goddesses out there who would help me with a facebook question…(i know virtually nothing about it as you are about to see…) 🙂

    i don’t have a fb page. but a little over a year ago three friends wanted me to sign up so i could see their photos.
    i did.

    then, just about a year ago, the man i was dating and i had our final conversation where we decided not to see each other again.

    after about a month of not hearing from him and huirting so badly over it , i deleted all of our emails, contacts, ims, photos, anything and everything i could find that had anything to do with him, got deleted.
    i was ready to move on… just didn’t know how to do it, but was determined to find a way if there was one possible…
    that’s when i found rori and siren island and the Tools and all of you goddesses/sirens… (*big kiss* and *warm hug*)

    his photo showed up in the “add as a friend” area of my login page.
    i got tired of looking at it, so somehow i figured out how to delete it as well as for the past year

    in the upper right hand corner of my login page.

    how did that happen?

    did he do that?

    I don’t have my own fb page or whatever,
    i only have a login page (sorry i don’t know the names)



  351.  #352Daria on November 5, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Lucy – I got the impression that Katarina was directing those “why are you waiting?” questions to the hypothetical man not wanting to have it, not to you



  352.  #353Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Dorothea: cool! So you’re going?

    I feel excited about this! It could be a huge breakthru!

    My bet is youre going to see him and laugh when you realize he has no power over you anymore. I guessing he will appear to be kinda wimping and weak.

    Kinda like going back to a place that you remember being so huge when you were a kid. Then you go back as an adult and it’s not nearly as impressive. Have you ever had that experience?

    Anyway, wishing you the best. Do let us know how it goes.



  353.  #354janjune on November 5, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    whoa— sorry about that last post, i was trying to ttim it down to not be so darned wordy and accidentally clicked submit”

    will get back to finishing my story now…



  354.  #355Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Feels good to be heard, LG. Thanks.

    “Those voices can only really trigger us they are mirroring some doubts we have within ourselves.”

    Yes, it triggered a bit of shame and blame inside me — the NV that wants to say, “There you go again, pissing people off; you just always have to start trouble, don’t you?”

    The reason I was able to stay relatively calm in my responses is that those NV’s are on their last legs (yay!) — and in my heart, I knew I hadn’t done anything wrong or bad.



  355.  #356Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Janjune – it can happen if the computer suggests him to you based on common friends, (i think that would be upper right)

    to me this would feel like a great time to imagine him in the photo saying… wow Janjune you are doing so well, you don’t ever have to date me again, or feel badly as you felt, but I am going to tell you you are an amazing Goddess, you even have the power to make me say whatever feels good to you in your mind, and I say you WILL have the relationship you want and I’ve been blessed by the touch of you in my life to start healing my own self and become a much better person than what i was , but enough about me, I want you to know that I have seen into the heart of the universe that you will have everything you want, and you deserve to be worshipped like a Goddess with lavish gifts and romance, and men bow to you Beautiful Blessing Goddess



  356.  #357Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    And to add to #344, I heard it many times from guys how they fall in love after (great) sexual relationship.

    I have never heard at my age (and where I am) men fall in love and stick with a woman who refuses to have sex and then marry her (I’m sure it still happens every now and then).

    So I tend to think that your scenario is an exception rather than rules (it perhaps happens more decades ago when pre-marital sex isn’t so widely accepted as it is today).



  357.  #358Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Janjune: when you say “how did that happen?” do you mean how did his picture show up with the add as a friend button?

    If so, that was facebook suggesting him because you have friends in common.

    If he did it, you would get an email that says so and so wants to be your friend.

    But most likely it’s facebook suggesting it because you have friends in common. He wouldn’t know it’s showing up on your page but most likely they are suggesting you to him too.

    Also, you do have a page. I’m pretty sure if you are signed up, you have a page automatically created for you. You cab find it if you click where it says “profile”.

    I’m pretty sure about all this but not 100%. Hope that helps.



  358.  #359Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Daria, she’s asking the MAN why he doesn’t want to have sex? Now I’m really confused! Lol… but laughing 🙂



  359.  #360Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Lucy – yes, reading her post, i understood that Katarina was wondering why the man would want to wait till marriage, and asking questions to him about that…



  360.  #361Luzy on November 5, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I read the post here almost every day, sometimes they can be uplifting and others well not so much. I just wonder why the obsession with being with someone? What if the relationship you want can only be achieved with yourself and no one else? What if no matter how much you pretend to be a siren men will never understand you? What if you are just meant to be alone?

    I wonder and Why isn’t there someone teaching us to embrace solitude? What is wrong with not having someone to love you but yourself?

    Here is one of my favorite videos enjoy…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7X7sZzSXYs



  361.  #362Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I would see it as a red flag as well if the man didn’t want to have sex till marriage.

    Rori does say that men will not be able to be in a sexless relationship for a long time



  362.  #363Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Daria, AWESOME convo with your mom!!! I feel excited about it!! Thanks so much for sharing it. <3



  363.  #364Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    LG – actually i decided to go with what I’ve been feeling since this morning. I need to stay in and rest and take care of myself.

    eep i feel so scared i am going to be judged. am i judging myself? ummm no actually i’m not. hmm. well now that i’m noticing myself not judging me, i don’t feel scared of being judged by everyone here.



  364.  #365Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Luzy – Rori does teach us to embrace ourselves, yet be open to the world. It is about teh relationship we want being first with ourselves… loving ourselves first…

    but not necessarily in solitude, but in solitude AND open to the world, AND open to a marriage/household/relationship with a man

    and it’s not about ‘pretending’ to be a siren… It’s about INTENDING to be a siren (and at first it may feel weird and like it’s not fully integrated in our way of being yet)



  365.  #366Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Well, Daria it was more why SHE didn’t want to have sex till marriage ’cause she is the one who refused, right? But now you prompted me to think why does he agree to that too?

    Good question.

    Indeed, why? Most men won’t do that. Why would these men? It could be because she’s that special, but it could also be very alarming…like he doesn’t like sex or has no options. : o



  366.  #367Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Katarina: I think Lucy is trying to say that when you say “men fall in love thru sex” (I’m paraphrasing) that it’s just a belief.

    A belief that could be changed…like in the way Erika helps people change their beliefs.

    Not to say it should be changed. If it works for you, then great. But just that it’s a belief, not a cold hard unwavering fact.

    And even though we can quote proof and evidence, ultimately we are all just acting based on our beliefs.

    What do you think about that?



  367.  #368Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    @345: Lucy says:
    “I feel confused and unheard, because I have written SO much on here about being all for sex, having sex, loving sex, etc.
    Help!”

    I’m keeping an open mind and open to learning. Learning about ‘love and bonding hormone’ is very interesting and from my experience there seems to be something to it.

    What can I say I’m not “in the sex game” but I’ve met men who were not interested in neither romance nor friendship and yet they there were willing, very willing, to have sex with women with high self-esteem, low self-esteem, no self-esteem.

    I’ve even seen very recently that popular “get more women” coaches have endorsed such goals and offered ways for men to express fake interest in women in order to get the sex.

    Perhaps these men fall truly in love or perhaps they do not fall truly in love. Perhaps they disappear from the women regardless of self-esteem level of the woman. I believe there are many variables. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

    SLV



  368.  #369Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Luzy – the video is actually a GREAT example of Dating Ourselves! A Rori tool! only addition… be open to the people and world around… make eye contact and smile to them… they are part of being alone

    we’re never alone

    the floorboards breathe

    metals are alive

    rocks live for ages

    we are mountains and volcanos to the ants



  369.  #370Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Dorothea: I’m not judging you. I feel relief that you are following your heart. 🙂



  370.  #371janjune on November 5, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    so anyway, then a little later when i’d go in to check these friends photos, etc., i’d see him up there in the “add a friend” area.

    i got tired of looking at him.
    and figured out how to delete him…i think.
    i think i did….. because he was gone…

    then i got busy here on siren island and with my life and other things and the friends knew i wasn’t checking fb so they quit writing stuff on the wall or whatever it’s called…

    …things are settling down in my life a little bit now so decided i’d check out fb again; got a new password, got in there and the third thing i saw was his little face sitting up in the right corner again.

    did he do that?
    i really think i deleted him but not exactly sure.

    another question,
    can he take that picture down?

    can I?

    i’m not sure i want to look at him 🙂

    although i’m not mad at him anymore.



  371.  #372Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    i texted the cocktail party ppl and said
    hey!! I am not feeling too great and want to stay in tonight. Any way we can all get dinner or brunch this weekend? I would love it!

    The answer: “Absolutely!”

    sweet. i feel so good and relaxed and sleepy now



  372.  #373Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I could be wrong but I don’t think Lucy is saying she wants to wait until marriage. I think she is saying she doesn’t have the same belief that men can only truly fall in love thru sex.

    Is that what you are saying Lucy?



  373.  #374Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    I as a dating coach for men DO support men in seeking sex!!!

    yes! sex ! not relationship!

    why? because, it’s an important part of their development as a MAN!

    it is CRUCIAL for men to know how to turn women on..

    men who don’t know how to do this will not be able to have a relationship or court a woman

    so yes MEN, SEX!

    trick’em if you have to, but soon you’ll realize you don’t have to trick anyone…

    but PLEASE… make an intention that you’ll learn to Turn a Woman On, and have SEX!!!

    GOOD SEX TOO!!!

    yay men!! yay men who know to turn the Goddess on

    yay men who know how to please the Goddess in that way she wants to be pleased primordially

    Goddess did not impose sex restricitions on herself… unless she was hurt and healing…

    Goddess wants to be pleased by men, SEXUALLY

    it’s MAN’s gift to woman… a beautiful Woship!!

    you must learn to lead this dance MAN

    just like we lead the way into the heart

    he must learn to affect Goddess, to turn her on, comfort her arouse her, make her feel safe

    we will not be attacked here in this spot… it is safe… Man is protecting me… Man is Worshipping me!!



  374.  #375janjune on November 5, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    daria,
    your #355 is making my eyes sting with tears and with happiness swelling inside my heart and with love too.
    this is the man i was in love with when i was 24 years old!
    i have to go cry. ill be back



  375.  #376Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Janjune, you can ‘delete’ the suggestion from where you see it. If you hover your mouse in the upper right hand vicinity of the suggestion, an x will appear. click it and he’ll disappear. if it’s not in the upper right, it’s SOMEWHERE on or near it if you move your mouse around over it without clicking before u see the x.



  376.  #377Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Yes, LG, exactly. Thank you!



  377.  #378Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Sexy Lady:

    You make a good point that sometimes men have sex and leave simply because they aren’t available or interested in a relationship at the time…regardless of how high or low the woman’s self esteem is at the time.

    For me, that’s were following my intuition or my heart helps. I feel hopeful that my intuition who pick up on that ahead of time.



  378.  #379Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    LG,

    “I could be wrong but I don’t think Lucy is saying she wants to wait until marriage.”

    Never said otherwise. Please refer to #349.



  379.  #380Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Yay Dorothea!



  380.  #381life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    SLV”Perhaps these men fall truly in love or perhaps they do not fall truly in love. Perhaps they disappear from the women regardless of self-esteem level of the woman. I believe there are many variables. I have no reason to believe otherwise.”

    Yes! I am in the There Are Many Variables Club too.

    SLV, we could always share the retired guy with the dogs 😉 and by the way, he invited me over to his house and he has a son, too! My intuition trusts this man, and I would go and visit with my dog in a heartbeat, in fact, I may go there next week!



  381.  #382Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Lucy:

    “The reason I was able to stay relatively calm in my responses is that those NV’s are on their last legs (yay!) — and in my heart, I knew I hadn’t done anything wrong or bad.”

    NICE!



  382.  #383Daria on November 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Yay Janjune!



  383.  #384Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    SLV, I didn’t mean to say self-esteem will always make guys stick around. Self-esteem will make you feel neutral about it though like it’s no biggie. Whatever happens, it’s for the best. You are now one step closer of finding the right guy by weeding out those who are not interested in you.

    Yeah, I have always said that guys disappear for many reasons (variables), when to have sex is not one of them if they’re into you.



  384.  #385Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    “Rori does say that men will not be able to be in a sexless relationship for a long time”

    Another thing we haven’t touched on in this discussion is what we mean by “sex.” A relationship can be sexy and sensuous and physically rewarding and fulfilling without intercourse for awhile (not forever of course). I would not call that a “sexless relationship.”

    And in the many many instances I know of where men and women have FALLEN IN LOVE with each other prior to sex… sometimes they DO end up having intercourse before marriage, sometimes they wait til marriage, but in either case — most of the time, they don’t put marriage off for very long. They are in love, they want each other forever, they make a commitment, and plan for marriage as soon as practical.

    One of many reasons some couples wait til marriage is because of the possibility of pregnancy — they want to establish a home before potentially bringing a child into the mix.

    So they simply make plans to marry sooner rather than later.



  385.  #386Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    LITS, this feels so good to read: “My intuition trusts this man.” It made me smile. I LOVE when our intuition trusts a man. That’s how I felt about driving over an hour to the beach with WH before I had even met him! I felt surprised at how trusting I felt with a “stranger.” And it felt very very good. 🙂



  386.  #387Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    @360: Luzy says:

    “…I wonder and Why isn’t there someone teaching us to embrace solitude? What is wrong with not having someone to love you but yourself?
    Here is one of my favorite videos enjoy…

    How To Be Alone
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7X7sZzSXYs

    Thanks.

    SLV



  387.  #388Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Katarina: #378

    OK. I guess I feel confused. I feel unsure then of why you got triggered earlier.

    I feel weird. I don’t want to butt in. I felt hopeful that i could help clear things up. But I’m feeling more confused than ever now.



  388.  #389Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    LG, I thought you cleared it up nicely in a nutshell:

    “I think she is saying she doesn’t have the same belief that men can only truly fall in love thru sex.”

    I feel tired. Lol.



  389.  #390Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Moving on… I don’t know what to do about D’s email telling me that he had been in ICU for weeks and wanted me to know he didn’t forget about me etc. etc….

    I had been kinda glad that he had faded away (I had thought he did)…

    but now he’s back…

    and I don’t know what to do.

    I like him but don’t feel romantic toward him and don’t want to have sex with him

    although wanting sex could change if I go to his house and happen to be feeling horny that night….



  390.  #391Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    LG, because I don’t think I have that “limiting belief” as she said. That implies that I’m using sex to make men fall in love with me (that’s the very thing I’m against in the first place: using sex to trap men into commitment, sex with agenda and expectations). I believe that sex is a powerful bond for couples, I don’t have sex because I fear he won’t fall in love with me. I have sex because I want to and I’m attracted to him.

    The fall-in-love thing is a by product, not something I consciously hold in my mind to make him fall in love with me.

    See the difference?

    And I’m still a strong believer that most men view sex as a very important part of the equation, otherwise we wouldn’t have been talking about this now, would we? Why deny it?

    And Daria in her Goddes-like understanding of men’s psyche said it very succintly in #374.

    I like it that she doesn’t apologize for the fact that men are sex-hungry. And we should view it in a positive light as she does: because we’re desirable. We shouldn’t make sex such a dirty word.

    I won’t want it otherwise. If a guy doesn’t want to have sex with me, he’s out….no question asked. 🙂



  391.  #392Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    @380 LITS

    “…@SLV, we could always share the retired guy with the dogs and by the way, he invited me over to his house and he has a son, too! My intuition trusts this man, and I would go and visit with my dog in a heartbeat, in fact, I may go there next week!…”

    A son??? An “available” son? This could be interesting. But OTOH, why do you have to go to him? to his house? Why couldn’t they both take you to coffee? Is there something special going on at his house?

    SLV



  392.  #393Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    I got lalalala



  393.  #394Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Oh, I am sooo blushing right now!! I got a msg from fb college guy, and when I wrote him back, my msg was pretty provocative *still blushing*… I feel all giddy and nervous about what he’ll do next! lol



  394.  #395Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    I don’t see anyone making sex a dirty word. Yes, men love sex. And so do women!



  395.  #396Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    @373: Daria says:

    Ohhhh, Daria.

    “…so yes MEN, SEX!
    trick’em if you have to, but soon you’ll realize you don’t have to trick anyone…”

    This sounds kind of funny, so I’m hoping that you aren’t serious. Teaching our sons to trick young women so they can practice their sex techniques is so icky feeling to me. I totally agree with you that it’s not necessary.

    Even thinking about someone doing that seems very unfair to me, not cool at all. It seems like a weakling kind of man would do that. I’ve read about young guys tricking some Downs Syndrome girls to have sex with all of them. How pitiful.

    I would not champion such a “man” I’d want to kick his ass!

    SLV



  396.  #397Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    And LG, further, Lucy said this too (exactly the implication that I outlined above):

    “I don’t do ANYTHING to try to get a guy to fall for me. I just be ME, do what I want, do what feels good to me… and if they fall for me, great! If they don’t, oh well! It has nothing to do with sex.”

    Which was a complete mischaracterization of who I am.

    I don’t want to drag this around, but since you ask….



  397.  #398Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Katarina: I really have the same views about sex as you do.

    The only thing I feel in disagreement about is this

    “That implies that I’m using sex to make men fall in love with me (that’s the very thing I’m against in the first place: using sex to trap men into commitment, sex with agenda and expectations).”

    I didn’t get the impression that Lucy was implying anything about you or your intentions, just saying that she has a different belief.

    I can see how by saying a belief is “limiting”, it might come across as a judgement but I don’t get the sense that she was implying anything about you.



  398.  #399Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Katarina, all those things you say were *implied* in my statement, were NOT implied in it at all! I did not add nor did I intend for anyone else to add all those extra ideas to what was said.

    NOW I get why you were upset.

    You saw meaning that was not there in my words.

    You extrapolated something from my words that was not intended nor implied.

    Do you see that I didn’t say what you thought I did?



  399.  #400Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Well, the fact that so many women (not just here) are so hung up on sex like they’re sacrificing a sacred part about themselves by having sex feels like it (sex is dirty) to me.



  400.  #401Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    The quote from me in #396 had nothing to do with you, Katarina, as I have already said.



  401.  #402life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    385. Lucy. Yes, it’s all about following your intuition and feeling comfortable in your feelings, no matter what they are, or whatever anyone thinks or says about them. That’s self-esteem.

    LD EUM man is not a clear mirror for me. He is a smoking mirror. He reflects beliefs about women and sex that I no longer have, but tries to pretend that he doesn’t to get me to have sex with him. That is what pisses me off. It bothers me how society continues to reflect this, and project it on us as women, and dammit, I’m not going to take full responsibility for it.

    Anyway, how do I know this about him if I am not supposed to be getting into his mind? Because I observe his behavior, listen to the disconnect in his words from one sentence to the next, and from my intuition.

    I could have good, freaky sex with him for the fun of it, but I just don’t know if its worth it. I want the sex to be part of feeling gratified with him on deeper levels, and that’s what I’m after. it has to be a package deal, and again, i will trust my intuition and my feelings on it, every time. This one has been a
    great testing ground for me, though, I will say that!
    And for that I am grateful.

    The double standard thing doesn’t sit well with me at all!! I feel discriminated against! Phooey!:-)



  402.  #403Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Katarina: I saw your second post. Darn cross posting 🙂

    I’m taking what Lucy said as sharing how it works for her rather than judging you.

    Thanks for exploring this with me.



  403.  #404janjune on November 5, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    i just feel a little confused by the depth of my feeling when seeing his picture again.

    i don’t want to be triggered like this.

    i don’t want to be putting my feelings that i haven’t worked out within myself onto other people anymore… that’s what i feel like i’m doing being this triggered to hot tears like this…

    it’s not his fault that i feel this way.

    all he is doing is making an offer of friendship between two people who were very, very close at one time in their lives.

    so why do i have these tears still streaming down my face?

    there is a tug in my heart to not be hard, to be soft and accept his offer of friendship

    as i honestly feel it can do no harm at this point.

    we’ve already tried the dating thing again and it didn’t work out but we didn’t have a big scene or anything. i know it was my trigger to help me find healing of old wounds.

    this is just about me working through old stuff … working it on out

    ….well work it on out now baby, work it on out you know you look so good look so good… 🙂



  404.  #405life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    391 SLV
    There’s a big yard and we would let the dogs play.
    I’m not interested in this guy romantically, so I might suggest meeting at the dog park or something. Still, i do feel comfortable with him. I’ll bring my mace along! 🙂



  405.  #406Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Katarina: I feel you, I really do.

    Sometimes it’s hard not to take things personally, especially when someone is saying they disagree with us.

    I’ve done that so many times.



  406.  #407life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    402 LG, yes, i would rather see all this discussion as an exploration rather than women defending their positions or trying to make each other right or wrong.\
    but…
    Patriarchy is a very real thing, and it affects us all, and I just don’t think there are any easy answers. Most of what we have shared here today are but two sides of the same coin.



  407.  #408Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    And I can understand how hearing that our belief is limiting, one might get triggered.

    But I also can see how Lucy intended it.

    Any belief that tells us that a man has to have a certain thing to fall in love with us could be limiting.

    Like, what if for some reason we couldn’t have sex, maybe a medical condition. If we believed that men need sex to fall in love, that could limit us. We would be looking forward to a life without romantic love from a man. That would be limiting right?



  408.  #409Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    @383: Katarina Phang says:
    “SLV, I didn’t mean to say self-esteem will always make guys stick around. Self-esteem will make you feel neutral about it though like it’s no biggie.

    I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that self-esteem automatically makes one think that sex is neutral and like it’s not biggie. I believe there are variables there too. I believe some women with high self-esteem feel that sex is indeed a biggie.

    “…Whatever happens, it’s for the best. You are now one step closer of finding the right guy by weeding out those who are not interested in you…”

    In the long run, yes, it’s better not to waste time on men who aren’t right for us. However, sex isn’t the only method of choice for the weeding out process.

    “Yeah, I have always said that guys disappear for many reasons (variables), when to have sex is not one of them if they’re into you.

    Agreed! The “if they’re into you” being the important factor here. Sometimes “into you” comes and goes. Some men believe themselves “into you” before the one night stand and believe themselves “not into you” after the one night stand.

    It’s best, I believe, if you want sex, have it but know that it might not mean the same to the guy as it does to his partner. If one is cool with that, go for it.

    SLV



  409.  #410Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    janjune, i feel confused. is facebook suggesting friends to you or did he actually ask u to be his facebook friend by sending a request?



  410.  #411Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    LITS:

    “Most of what we have shared here today are but two sides of the same coin.”

    I agree. I guess that’s why I feel inspired to get clear on what’s happening…because I see a lot of similarity in what is being said. And I feel sad seeing “conflict” happening over what is basically a misunderstanding.



  411.  #412Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    I’m done discussing whether or not men fall in love completely through sex. Lucy says “many” men do, and we don’t know how many is “many,” and what is their percentage compared to those who don’t? Is it a statistically representative sample?

    What’s more readily observable to me is MOST men view sex as a very important factor in deciding whether or not he wants to be with a woman long term, thus why it’s a problem for many women in the first place.

    I’m not interested in discussing exceptions. It’s going nowhere.

    I said “Men RARELY fall deeply in love without sex,” didn’t say “men NEVER fall in love without sex.”

    Considering I haven’t seen/heard a guy who sticks with a woman who refuses to have sex and in fact later marry her, I stick to my assertion that it is an exception regardless that someone else says there are “many” guys like that.



  412.  #413Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    “But I also can see how Lucy intended it.”

    Yes, what I had said was that that belief feels limiting to me. To ME.

    I feel freer and more unlimited if I believe a man can fall for me independent of when we have sex.

    I believe in love at first sight!

    I believe in falling in love doing dishes together at camp, like my parents did.

    I believe in a man falling in love at a woman’s hospital bedside, never having slept with her, like C.S. Lewis did.

    I believe in falling in love!!!

    Before sex, after sex, during sex!!!

    It feels great to believe this!

    It feels unlimited.

    “Men CAN’T fall in love before they have sex.”

    To ME, that belief feels very small and limiting…

    and also out of synch with everything I have seen, experienced, and read.

    Are my beliefs not valid for me to hold?



  413.  #414Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    SLV: ‘Some men believe themselves “into you” before the one night stand and believe themselves “not into you” after the one night stand.’

    So true. hehe. 🙂



  414.  #415Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    @390: Katarina Phang says:

    “…If a guy doesn’t want to have sex with me, he’s out….no question asked. …”

    I’ll go along with that… 😀

    SLV



  415.  #416Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Tuning back in….where is Lucy saying she disagrees with Kat? I keep hearing her now agreeing and championing sex. And I keep hearing Katarina repeating her same position about wanting us to break through the sex as a shameful act that bad girls do that causes men to judge us, use us and run!

    And, again – Lucy if you are indeed saying men (as an intellectual exercise and to offer comfort to young women) will fall madly deeply in love with you without sex (even tho sex is great)….ummmm, okay.

    How does that relate to a convo about sex as bonding, with brain chemicals and a source of power for a woman?

    That’s where this short circuits for me – we’re talking about sex, bonding and women’s power and then we insert but you can have love without sex….

    ummm, okey dokey, but then we jump back to but sex is very good and I’ve got no opinion on if or when I do it?

    And I don’t hear anyone taking anything personally – I hear a message, a disagreement that is not clearly defined except as a disagreement of perhaps an opinion of a limiting belief?

    And I had an upbeat feeling that it was ending with open communication but then….yep….it just kept getting picked back up.

    Wonder why?



  416.  #417Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    SLV,

    “In the long run, yes, it’s better not to waste time on men who aren’t right for us. However, sex isn’t the only method of choice for the weeding out process.”

    Never said it did either.

    I’m curious why when it comes to sex people tend to take my assertion to the extreme and out of context, like it’s “the only way” even when I didn’t say that?

    I weeded out so many guys before sex too! Obviously you have to!



  417.  #418life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    410. Personally, I think Lucy accurately called Katarina out on a limiting belief and Katerina has been trying to justify that statement ever since with her stance on sex and morality and having a corner on the market of how guys think. IMHO.



  418.  #419Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    @403 janjune

    If you aren’t ready to be platonic “friends” get rid f the damn picture! If you are crying, I have the idea that you are not ready. I don’t know all the Rori laws but i suspect there is no law that you have to EVER be ready to have a friendship or even SEE this man again.

    Do whatever you have to do to feel good if it doesn’t hurt anyone else…even if it does sometimes…

    Dump that pic!

    SLV



  419.  #420Daria on November 5, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Luzy – here’s a course I did the first lesson on at the Wise Woman University

    it’s about Artemis, embracing the power in our Solitude

    http://www.wisewomanuniversity.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=703



  420.  #421Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Jacq, you have a way of clarity out of a circular “non-issue” discussion I even perhaps got myself muddled in:

    You pointed out:

    “How does that relate to a convo about sex as bonding, with brain chemicals and a source of power for a woman?”

    Indeed. That was the topic was all about that got dragged around to some other irrelevant issues.

    Sure (some) men fall in love even without sex, whatever, but how does that deny the importance of sex as a bonding vehicle in relationship?



  421.  #422Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Janjune, for me it helps to go THROUGH the feelings… feel them fully… feel them deeply every time you see the picture… that way you are not blocking them and stuffing them down, and they can actually move through you and out….. More painful at first, but then it eventually leaves your body… like the darkness before dawn…

    Just an idea. Your mileage may vary, as SLV says. 🙂



  422.  #423life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    415 Jacq
    “….wanting us to break through the sex as a shameful act that bad girls do that causes men to judge us, use us and run!”

    But Jacqueline, there ARE lots of men out there who consider women to be there for their use, to control and do with us what they want, on their terms, and they do buy into the whole double standard thing.

    They do the whole romantic thing, they start courting you, they bond with you through sex, they play house with you, but then when you “drop the bomb” in whatever way that is, they say, “well hey, it was understood from the beginning that there were to be no expectations.”

    And I am supposed to practice standing in my power with these guys? Pass!!



  423.  #424Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    I think that love without sex can indeed be love – but it’s so sadly lacking in contrast between male and female – that it’s not a love I’d wish on anyone!

    I think everyone can agree that sex is not love – but it’s much more difficult to agree that love is not sex between a man and a woman.

    Especially for a man.

    So, I can see how this could be challenged as a limiting belief. But I don’t see how it IS a limiting belief – simply a reality based statement of truth for someone that is not limited by it.

    And I don’t see how it can be challenged as a valid men see it one way, women see it another and we could all use a little clarity for ourselves….

    so we take this whole conversation and personalize it and use it to grow, challenge our self, or simply support our existing beliefs.

    However, a belief isn’t necessarily limiting because it’s a belief. A true belief can be a source of power for me because it’s what I believe – and it therefore expands my influence and informs my interactions and allows me to have what I want my way.

    Heee….and that circles right around to the lovely idea that brought me here! I wanted to have the relationship “I” wanted. Took that title very literally!

    Once again, goodnite ladies!



  424.  #425Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    @404: life_is_too_short_to… says:

    “Still, i do feel comfortable with him. I’ll bring my mace along! …”

    LOL LOL 😆

    SLV



  425.  #426Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    “Sure (some) men fall in love even without sex”

    Yay!! Wow!!! Yippee!!!

    I did not expect Katarina to change her belief. That was not my intent. I just wanted to share my own belief as an alternative to hers.

    But wow. It feels good to read this!

    Thanks, Katarina.



  426.  #427Daria on November 5, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    SLV – hmm… i feel weird to hear that this triggers you

    but yes i do encourage my guy friends to have sex with girls even if they are “tricking” them

    to me it’s a fun part of immature courtship development

    I can see how this might definitely feel triggering,

    this is how I operate right now at this point… having grown up as a tomboy and with lots of guy friends who had lots of sex and lots of ‘tricking’

    I guess I look at it as a form of them getting experience and getting experience breaking through belief obstacles and ready for the real thing, when the maturity kicks in

    I guess Im a Daria DeAngelo in that way

    I think i have GREAT advice about how to get in a woman’s pants… lol



  427.  #428janjune on November 5, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Hi Lg,
    thanks for the info…

    he and i don’t have friends in common.

    so yes, maybe he did send another request at some point that i accepted and don’t remember… Must be.

    this is probably happening now to remove the last vestiges of this issue.
    i feel fairly clear now.
    not perfectly… still feel some residue around it but getting clearer 🙂



  428.  #429Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Jacqueline, I was never advocating love without sex. 🙂



  429.  #430Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Lifeistooshort: maybe you want to present other ways that MOST men think re. sex other than what commonly accepted -and thus discussed?

    Why is such a simple fact be a source of resistance?



  430.  #431Honey on November 5, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    SLV
    #373 #395

    Daria’s comment…

    “…so yes MEN, SEX!
    trick’em if you have to, but soon you’ll realize you don’t have to trick anyone…”

    I feel sad and defensive reading this. I don’t want anyone to trick me. When I make love with someone, I share the most intimate part of myself, body, mind, heart and soul. This is how it works for me. To have someone trick me, or to feel one way the night before, then change their mind the next day would feel terrible to me. I feel bonded to that man and want to be with him only.

    I don’t think men or women should try to trick one another. No. Tricking is deception, and deception feel bad to me



  431.  #432Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Hi, Life! yeah, it’s been awhile but I remember those guys – and just like the David DeAngelo dater – RUN!! lol….

    but for me – sex was not like that. IF I chose to have a one nighter – it almost always evolved. I don’t know if you read where I had 4 or 5 year relationships that to me were going to be simply one night stands?

    In my 20’s I got some of those notches on the bedposts and it sucked….but not so bad that it like damaged me. I have one or two crappy memories – but it never took away my power. And I have to say I got far far more love and growth and good from men once I was in my 30’s – and my very last one nighter? Was a LOT like my very last perfect carnival ride. Some of the best sex ever….and no asking for phone numbers or nothing….just there when I was down and happy with me,and making me very happy – and gone. Very cool and very giving, actually.

    Once, I went home with Jerry Jeff Walker’s bass player- it’s a great story. But in the a.m. he’s leaving – and he lives in a whole nother town…so I’m just like bye…and he HAS to ask for my freaking phone number, making it both more and less than it was. I’d of been happier if he had not done that!



  432.  #433Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    and then, when I got to my 40’s? I got a whole LOT pickier!!! heee…..several guys would said they wanted to follow me home from the bar to make sure I got home safe (and I had my 100 pound German Shepherd at my house and my gun in my car and they were guys I’d been seeing around for months…..) and I’d say, okay, but I’m not sleeping with you! and they’d come in the front door and I’d say thanks bye and they’d be all like stuttering….

    WTH? did they not listen to what I said???!!!

    that was good, and I was totally in my own power and desires about it – it was a very good time for me



  433.  #434Daria on November 5, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    i feel a lil weird and uncomfortable reading about the Down’s Syndrome girls getting tricked too…

    well this feels bad because it’s bringing in belief that it’s not cool to ‘trick’ someone that is so vulnerable

    also it might be a belief that it’s not ok, (kinda gross – oh i feel guilty about this) to have sex with a Down system person

    I mean, what would I think if it was a bunch of girls having sex witha Down Syndrome boy… that feels much less disturbing to me… it actually seems like it would be GREAT for him

    so I see again, it’s the belief that a woman won’t enjoy sex as much as a man … that its “Bad” for her…

    I imagine this belief got imposed upon women by men wanting to control their sexuality way back when patriarchy took over – and now men And women carry it… thinking that women’s free sexuality is to be feared… hehe

    I mean, what if it’s the Down System girl is somehow “tricking” them into having sex with her?

    this all feels disturbing… so I would like to heal this and receive the gem in this, thank you!



  434.  #435Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Lucy, if you read my posts carefully I NEVER said “men NEVER fall in love without sex.”

    However, I think that is an exception. Scroll up to see everything I said.

    Nothing changed. I still believe sex is a powerful vehicle for bonding for couples that women have to wise up about and use it to their advantage instead of treating it like an enemy.



  435.  #436Honey on November 5, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Daria –

    ” I think i have GREAT advice about how to get in a woman’s pants… lol”

    Oh, Daria, this makes me so sad. It’s ok for a man to want “experience”, but not at someone else’s expense. If he wants experience, there are women with whom he could get involved honestly. Why not leave girls like me, who give all when they make love, alone?



  436.  #437life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    429 Katerina. I really can’t do that because I don’t subscribe to any MOST men theories. I take all these coaches advice with a grain of salt. The only advice I trust is Trust Yourself, Love Yourself, Put Yourself First. I just don’t want to belong to the club with the men with double standards. Please, anything but that! That sucks and triggers me.
    I am happy for you for your experience that you are in love and feel two men to be in love with you too, I just don’t want you to extrapolate your experience into “this is how it works” 🙂



  437.  #438Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    “Men RARELY fall deeply in love without sex”

    So, ALMOST never. 🙂

    I disagree.

    And that’s okay!



  438.  #439Daria on November 5, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Honey – I agree that I don’t want to be tricked either.

    Nonetheless I do think that men should try to get women to have sex with them as much as they can.

    I have been “on the men’s side” for a very long time, and I’m more little bit partial to ‘them’ on this issue.

    The same way I would advocate a woman to always please HERSELF first and do what’s best For her.

    I would advocate the same for a man, including having as much sex as he can.

    I know this triggers a lot of women… I just see it as a good thing…

    a good thing because everyone, even the woman, learns from it, about sex, and dating, and relationship, and how they do and don’t go together

    this is how I grew up it was a “game” of “getting the other sprung” on both sexes sides.

    This is only at an immature level, and prepared us for maturity, once we found our own way out of the “games”



  439.  #440Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Life, there is no basis for any theory/method -even not RR’s tools- if we don’t work on generalization basis. RR bases her tools on what MOST men are like. And she’s damn right to do that, otherwise there is nothing to work on.

    Just sayin….



  440.  #441Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    “I still believe sex is a powerful vehicle for bonding for couples that women have to wise up about and use it to their advantage instead of treating it like an enemy.” (Katarina)

    I also believe sex is a powerful vehicle for bonding for couples! Yes!! Always believed that.

    But I don’t agree that women have to “use it to their advantage.”

    What advantage??

    I don’t believe women have to “use” sex at all.

    Just ENJOY it with their man!!



  441.  #442Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    so, one of my coolest stories….I’m at a riverside marina that’s also a bar. Legs up on a chair out on the deck, arms draped over chairs on either side of me. Very cute guy pulls up a chair and wants to take me to dinner….and I say, naaah, let’s just get steaks and I’ll cook for ya, cuz I need groceries and you can carry in the 50 lbs of dog food. Yeah, I’m totally chillin and a little buzzed on wine….

    So we go buy groceries, I make this home cooked dinner thing, he carries in the dog food – and you know? I don’t even remember if we had sex that night or another one….we dated for about 4 or 5 months tho.

    It was just so easy, fun, authentic, not scary, cool….

    and safe for me – that marina/bar was my “hangout” and the bouncer was my best friend and knew ALL the guys – so I could be so relaxed there and know he’d never let me get in trouble.

    He was my “bodyguard” for dancing too….came up to the club almost every night I worked. Another reason the dance thing went so well for me….a 6’4″ 300 lb. guy who’s your best friend and you can do cartwheels over….yep, that was good times!

    And then I’ve had men order $200 bottle of wine, and not wanted to even kiss em….and all I could think was crap! I wish I had that money for groceries.

    So….maybe it’s manifesting, maybe it’s vibe, maybe it’s attitude???

    That’s kind of what we’re all here to share, yes?



  442.  #443Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    @Katarina

    take my assertion to the extreme

    Don’t get mad with me. Get curious all you want but your curiosity doesn’t mean that what I said is “extreme.”

    I’m done. I’ve had lots of sex and all kinds of variables. I’m a hippie child of the 60s and 70s. Sex is not something that you invented, me either.

    I don’t have time to spend on a girlfight about someone else’s sex beliefs. 😆

    I wish you well. I wish everyone well. We may all find our happiness in many and different ways.

    SLV



  443.  #444janjune on November 5, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    thank you dorothea,
    that’s just what i was looking for!
    how to delete!
    but then when it triggered me, i knew i wasn’t done processing through so have just left it there… but haven’t gone back into fb yet.

    the confusion issue… yes, me too…
    thanks for the help with that
    i didn’t know what, if anything, fb uses to determine when to suggest that people be added as friends…

    so must have been an old email that i accepted…
    thought i’d deleted everything that has to do with him… must have accepted again at some time though b/c we don’t have any friends in common.



  444.  #445Mai on November 5, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Daria ! Come live with me and you can teach me t-tapp and I’ll teach u Arabic ! Lol

    I resonated with your post regarding the chat with your mum. God wish I could give myself the time to process my feelings of rage with my parents when they criticise me. I lose it very quickly with my mum so I don’t initially start my conversations with my mum with feeling messages.. But as soon as I remember to communicate this way I really try.. But it feels so hard to convey my feelings to my parents.

    I so get the ‘not feeling fulfilled’ about working in particular professions .. I quit my lawyer job 4 months ago because I felt exactly the same.I spent 4 years doing the course and spent shit loads of money on the bitch but I can honestly say No regrets …even though I have no money now !!

    I can feel your passion for t-tapp daria and I bet you made most of the sirens here consider practicing it! So maybe you could be a t-tapp representative in your area.. It’s on the website so check it it if that resonates with you.



  445.  #446Daria on November 5, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Honey – they won’t leave you alone because they have to learn how to love, and Give sexual turn on and pleasure to women, even women who may be belief-blocked from enjoying sex for sex

    and the woman would never learn boundaries or saying NO, or findind what you do and don’t want

    that’s like a man saying, why do these women want to date multiple men… why can’t the one who wants to marry me show up?

    because a man needs to learn to court and WIN make a woman feel good to have a relationship

    and a woman needs to learn what does and doesn’t feel good to her… what she wants.. and how to say NO to what she doesn’t want



  446.  #447Daria on November 5, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Mai – hehe!! well it might feel fun to come live with you!

    I could def teach you T-tapp, and ti would feel fun to teach Arabic… but I haven’t done it at this point consistently enough to train to be a trainer… it woudl be cool though!

    I only do a bit of t-tapp here and tehre because, really, it works like that… with T-tapp less is more…

    I feel excited to hear about quitting the lawyer job!!

    yay for not working, yay for LIVING



  447.  #448Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Lucy – I’m happy you like SEX!!! I never really got that about you – but the advantage thing? Isn’t that why we speak in feeling messages? Isn’t that what the body seduction article here is? Isn’t that why we have “tools” – to have an advantage? Even if that advantage is only in knowing what we want and what makes us feel good?

    I’ve always wondered that – if not for that then for what?

    Thanks!

    J



  448.  #449Honey on November 5, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Like Katarina said, sex IS a bonding thing. I would not want to bond with someone then find out they deceived me.

    I know there are guys out there like that. Only once in my life have I ever felt used like that with a guy I slept with. If I could erase it I would.

    I teach my boys to be honest with girls, and treat them with respect. When my son was 18 and sleeping with his girlfriend, it didn’t bother me because I knew he cared about her and that she’d slept with a lot of guys, and that sex wasn’t as meaningful for her as it might be for some girls. I just took him too the warehouse store and bought him a giant box of condoms. (Thank goodness for that cuz a year after they broke up, she was pregnant by some guy she couldn’t care less about).

    Then my son had this other girlfriend. And I told him he needed to be careful with her because she is innocent and trusting, and he could really hurt her. And that if he treated her bad, I would kick his ass (figuratively speaking, of course). They never did have sex, although they probably messed around a lot. And he fell in love with her. He didn’t know he was in love at the time because he never felt it before. He figured it out after she broke up with him…he has mourned her for a long time.



  449.  #450Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    @Daria

    I mean, what would I think if it was a bunch of girls having sex witha Down Syndrome boy… that feels much less disturbing to me… it actually seems like it would be GREAT for him..”

    No, I don’t believe that would be good either. I know of a stories about the girls being preyed upon; I’ve never heard of girls doing it but they certainly could in a teasing kind of way. That would feel bad to me too…

    SLV



  450.  #451life_is_too_short_to... on November 5, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    431 Jacq
    I want to hear the Jerry Jeff Walker story! when you have time…
    Yeah, i’m not against one night stands or any scenario, whatever anyone wants to do is fine, i just have certain standards for myself.

    I’m even thinking that if I was REALLY in my full goddess power, I could have sex with a man in the double standard club, because what he thinks is none of my business, if I am attracted enough physically and chemically, BUT…

    the big question is, as Goddess, what would I be opening myself up to receive?? Do I want or need that karma?



  451.  #452Katarina Phang on November 5, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    Well Lucy, let’s put it this way, a man will likely fall DEEPER in love with a woman after sex thanks to oxytocyn.

    Still bottom line is sex is good for their relationship. It deepens it.

    As for the rest in #441, I think it’s silly polemics…I refuse to be circular discussing non-issues while we actually agree with each other when it comes to sex and what to do about it. Again, it feels like you’re just playing a devil’s advocate here. 🙂



  452.  #453Laughing Goddess on November 5, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    So my man just came home and Gave me a male perspective. Here’s what he said.

    He said he could definitely fall in love with someone before having sex with them.

    He also pointed out that lots of people fall for people that they aren’t even dating, let alone having sex with.

    But we said he wouldn’t be excited to date someone for two years without having sex

    and especially if they were just holding out due to societal pressure.

    I also asked about having sex early on and how that affects attraction…

    He said, if he gets the vibe from a woman that she just wants to hook up, then he looks at it that way too…as just a one night stand.

    But if he gets the sense that she is being in the moment and following the natural feelings that are flowing between them, then it wouldn’t affect the way he perceived her.

    So that’s one male perspective 🙂



  453.  #454Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    “Lucy – I’m happy you like SEX!!! I never really got that about you” (Jacqueline)

    Oh my GOSH, Jacqueline! I feel royally PISSED!!!

    I feel like I must be wearing a coat that makes me nearly invisible to you, only you.

    I feel angry to be asked so many questions and yet not really paid attention to when I am saying stuff. I feel very angry to hear these words. I think most women on here who have paid attention to what I have said all these months KNOW I like sex!!!!!! WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF?????????????????

    Can you tell I’m PISSED??????



  454.  #455Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    Just sayin, Jacqueline. I don’t need to “Use” sex at all. I just enjoy it, and so does he. It’s just how sex is for me and my men.



  455.  #456Daria on November 5, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Daria – I don’t feel very judgemental about men’s desires for sex…

    I’ve been friends with men and have seen them having orgies, ‘trick’ girls, and have lots of other sexual experiences on a first hand i am there seeing it with my eyes basis

    for years

    I feel glad because I am now free and dismantled of a lot of judging beliefs that women and MEN hold about men and sex

    I love them, I KNOW they are good, I feel good with them

    ***

    Men are different than women.

    They like having sex, they think its freakin GREATALICIOUS!!

    I mean, they LOVE WOMEN SO MUCH, they are ready to have sex with almost all of us!!

    ALL OF US!!!

    would I, or most other women, be down to have sex with every man??

    not much, at this point in time, maybe 8000 bc, at virgin Goddess temples, maybe sex whore goddesses, but not right now, not most

    I don’t really believe in “tricking” someone anyway…

    the woman is involved in having the sex too

    it may be a lesson that feels painful, if she holds the belief that sex means more than sex

    it may be a lesson that feels painful, if she believes a man is into her, who is not

    but those are lessons nonetheless… and life is in the learning… and in Intending More happiness… and riding the horse



  456.  #457Honey on November 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Lucy #453 –

    I TOTALLY knew you are into sex! I have appreciated our past exchanges regarding sex and dating.



  457.  #458Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    No, not playing devil’s advocate, Katarina. I think some of the women here get what I’m saying. It’s okay if you don’t.



  458.  #459Jacqueline on November 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Daria – my sister has a Downe’s daughter who’s like 45 now? My niece….who believes her stuffed penguin is real. And believe me – she has NO idea what sex even is or that it exists. She did tell my sister once that she was sad she got a bracelet from her “boyfriend” (also Downs)….and not a ring.

    She gets some concepts but not others- anyway my sister would KILL anyone who touched her. And I mean kill as in shoot them and go to jail and still be happy! And I suppose most Down’s children have parents like that so I don’t think it’s a very likely scenario.

    Anyone can be taken advantage of or tricked – one guy begged me and begged me when I was about 19…I mean I thought he would DIE if I didn’t – then he went and bragged about “bal***” me. That was humiliating! I’ve had a handful of those kinds….

    So I agree guys should totally learn good sex – all I ever learned was from guys. Grin….I had no idea girls could even masturbate til some boy told me and said don’t use a coke bottle it’ll bust – mutual sexual exploration and maturation feels good, and all the guys who took care of me and watched out for me convinced me of the basic goodness of guys – like the one who took me down and got me birth control pills when I was 15 and he was 22 – he didn’t have to do that, but he knew my parents weren’t doing anything for me (I never had a single sex talk, got a book about menstruation!)….so for the handful that humiliated me, there were a couple of dozen really “GOOD” guys – good men, good human beings, good caring and caring of my happiness guys.

    I’ve been lucky and I’ve been blessed – and I’ve always been glad I didn’t get “the talk,” which I’m sure would have just made me freak out and feel shamed….

    and this lucky girl’s gonna go have sweet dreams….

    Jacqueline



  459.  #460Daria on November 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    SLV –

    I got it now for me… it feels bad to “trick” a vulnerable person like someone with a mental disability…regardless of whether it’s about sex



  460.  #461Lucy on November 5, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Lol, Honey! Thanks! 🙂



  461.  #462Dorothea on November 5, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    I’ve had 2 sexual partners and the first was after falling in love with each other and the second was an i could care less hookup on my part. both resulted in long term dating. i agree that it’s about the vibe and not so much the timing. though i personally would feel crazy and out of control if i slept with someone after 2 or 3 dates. i don’t like to share that much of myself too quickly. i feel better brokering information about what makes me tick in installments over time and not all right away.



  462.  #463janjune on November 5, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    ((hugs)) SLV,
    i can feel the love in what you said.

    i want to go back in there and work through this trigger.

    when im ready

    i feel so thankful to have the opportunity.
    meaning: to work fully through.

    maybe we will be friends someday, i would like that…
    we go back a long way.

    i moved on, but in my heart there has always been unfinished business between us. we got the chance to work through that a year or so ago. i know he wanted to remain friends.
    i didn’t… so i didn’t.
    this was pre-Rori.

    remaining friends doesn’t sound like an entirely bad idea if i got this trigger cleared…



  463.  #464Mai on