The Bachelor – New Lessons in What a Man is Capable of

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Okay, it’s that time of year…the Bachelor is here.  And this time, he’s unusual. He’s odd.  He’s a Dudley-DoRight, stand up man who’s so uncomfortable in his own skin you can feel the coils of his being wound tight.  The kind of man he is requires a certain kind of women, and the producers of the show did him no favor.  Nearly all but 2 or three of the women are so completely and utterly wrong for him. Too sophisticated.  Too smart.  Game-players.  Bitches. Bad-girls. Mean-girls. Mentally unstable. And …all “boy.”  What he needs is a soft woman.  A “girl.” Looking at the show, it seems there are none.

And – here’s the interesting part…he’s attracted to bitches, bad-girls, mean girls, cold girls, tricky girls.  He APPRECIATES a nice girl, but he gets excited about “boy” women.

Until this week.

It feels to me now  like I’m watching a man discover himself. Slowly.

What he’s doing every week is shifting course.  He’s adapting.  He’s learning.  He’s now figured out that he is completely blind to deceit and manipulation.  And so, he’s learned to catch it.  He knows he’s not sophisticated at talking about things – he’s SO “earnest” and “serious” – he knows he’s confused, and he knows he’s not having fun the way he thought it would be fun.

This kind of man drives women away.  WE like bad boys.  And this is a good guy in capital letters.  It’s hard to imagine any of these women staying interested in him over the long haul.

And so, he’s starting to get that.  He’s starting to eliminate the tough women and focus in on the softer ones (whatever he can find, at least). He’s looking for kindness.  He’s looking for genuineness.  He’s going AGAINST his natural attractions, and not buying his instinctive assumptions.

He may have given up finding his “wife” in this venue, but he’s trying to at least pick the closest thing to it.

I’ve read all the spoilers, and if they’re true, I understand his choices…for now…the important thing is that a man can change!

A man can learn!

And….”drama” is no longer the turn on it was.  He’s starting to see drama rather than get turned on by it.  He’s starting to understand himself.

This totally masculine man is actually very feminine.  He’s actually so very emotional that he shuts himself down.  And so he’s learned to express himself – and he’s doing it in Feeling Messages!!! He’s saying he feels confused to a woman who’s being a crazy bitch playing games.  He feels genuinely bad when someone is sad.

He was absolutely terrified of the bungee jump moment (they’ve obviously figured out on the show that going through terrifying life/death experiences together is very, very bonding…)- but the girl with him, Vienna, was even MORE terrified, and he LEANED on HER!

She – forced to be either a girl and say how it didn’t feel good to have him lean on her since he’d TAKEN her to the bungee jump (sort of an “ewww”) OR go “boy” and “nurture” him – somehow “got” that this was a test of teamwork, and switched hats back and forth. She stayed sweet with him, pulled them both together, and then,  in front of our eyes, they sort of traded-off hats, balanced the boy-girl energy and just jumped off the bridge together.

It seemed, when this was going on, that she wasn’t even FEELING the “ewww” – which, if I were him, would cement me to her forever.  But – later on, she might.  And if she’d felt it, and tried to hide it, it would have shown up later in tension and body language and going into her head and into her “boy.”

The test was – from his point of view – Can we be a team, even if I’m showing my fear and acting in an “unmanly” way?

What I saw was a woman who was not the most attractive or compelling in the bunch sort of naturally, and under terrific stress, flip to “boy” and then get her “girl” back.

As they flew down, screaming, and hung in the air upside-down, he grabbed her and kissed her – and it was a great moment.  He’d just gone past one of his own blocks, been accepted for his feelings, even the “girl” ones, and there she was, hanging there with him – they’d operated somehow as a team.

It seemed as though she really did care for him. She seemed to be able to stay soft under stress. She got to him.

Perhaps we can learn from both of them – like Vienna, if we really like the man, and can stay soft under stress – even though we need to switch hats to our boy occasionally just because life is like that, we can connect powerfully with his heart.

AND – if we’re addicted to drama and bad and unavailable boys – we can change.  We can learn to look past those instinctive attractions and go deeper – to look for what we NEED, and open up to a man who wants to meet our needs.

Let’s see what happens this week (this is the most crassly cast year in my memory, so, if I’m going to watch it, I’m going to be looking for something to learn from, and, I can’t help it – I’m just powerfully hit by all the archetypes, the heroines and villains and victims and heroes).

Love, Rori

139 Comments

  1.  #1FEMENERGYLOVE on January 25, 2010 at 2:54 am

    good post rori!my question is how do you know when to switch from girl to boy energy?when is it appropriate?i met a really nice guy who had a girlfriend.upon learning this i leaned way back and started circular dating.my boundary was that i would not date him if He was still involved with someone else.this morning He wrote me an email saying he has broken up with her and its pretty hard as they were living together etc and are now figuring who moves out etc.basically i said i cant imagine how hard it is for both of them etc.i did not feel good offering any advice or any kind of baby talk as their break up has nothing to do with me.i do not want to be cold though either.have i gone about this the right way?



  2.  #2Simply Shannon on January 25, 2010 at 6:37 am

    I think what you said sounds perfect! Not cold at all. If he’s still with someone, he’s not available. He’s a boy… what advice or baby talk could you possibly give in this situation that wouldn’t say “hey, I don’t believe you are capable of doing this on your own”? No, I felt good reading what you said.



  3.  #3Simply Shannon on January 25, 2010 at 6:49 am

    I really needed to read this part:

    AND – if we’re addicted to drama and bad and unavailable boys – we can change. We can learn to look past those instinctive attractions and go deeper – to look for what we NEED, and open up to a man who wants to meet our needs.
    – – – – – – – –
    Mr. Fab Kisser told me yesterday that he’s falling in love with me. I’m still in this place where I don’t even know what “love” feels like anymore. Without the drama and the bad-boy stuff, it’s like “love” is a completely new animal. I’m even looking at how I “love” my children, my family, and my friends in a whole new way. I’m comparing what I feel with them and what I feel with Mr. Fab Kisser. And ironically it feels the same but it’s completely different than what I’ve felt with other boys that I thought I “loved”. It feels open and refreshing instead of scary and overwhelming. I keep expecting to feel overwhelmed and the lack of that feeling feels soooo weird. But…

    He meets my needs. He’s a fun man who wants to give me everything. I complimented a girl’s cross necklace the other night when he was with me and mentioned to HER that I was looking for one. Sunday, Mr. Fab Kisser says he’s been looking at cross necklaces but wants to know what I like. 🙂 Then I’m sitting in church and say “gosh I feel hungry”. He says “I didn’t bring in my wallet” which struck me so funny because I wasn’t even wanting him to buy me anything. I was just talking outloud because I felt hungry. He heard me and would have “fixed it” if he had his money. He holds my hand and puts his arms around me all the time. I’ll catch him looking at me with love and amazement in his eyes. It feels fabulous!

    So is that love? I don’t know. Do I describe this to him when we talk again? I feel nervous saying “I love you” because I want it to be real. How do you know love is real if you aren’t even sure what “love” is anymore? I feel confused.



  4.  #4Sherry on January 25, 2010 at 7:58 am

    SS

    I think this is where the analyzing things to death comes in. Am I in love with him or do I just love him? Do I love him as a friend or as a mate? It is this “in your head” thing where I get stuck. It sounds to me as if you are really getting deep in to your feelings. Good for you!

    Love means different things to different people. I really believe that. “How do you know love is real if you aren’t even sure what “love” is anymore?” You find what love means to you, how it feels to you. What you want from a relationship vs what you are getting, etc. You get past the fear of screwing up again and find the feelings underneath.



  5.  #5tinque on January 25, 2010 at 8:01 am

    You’ll know when you know Simply Shannon. Remember the give it some time bit? No need to be in such a hurry. Enjoy this, for obviously it feels good. There is only this moment now. Roll around in it. Savor it. You will know if it’s love when you know.
    xxoo



  6.  #6FEMENERGYLOVE on January 25, 2010 at 8:15 am

    hey ss,i also feel that you should go with how you feel.too much thinking.enjoy enjoy enjoy his attention.it will be different with a non bad boy.thank God for those.its realising i dont have to do anything that got me.



  7.  #7Simply Shannon on January 25, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Thank you ladies! I know, I know. 🙂 I feel afraid of hurting him. This is what I’m thinking at the root of all of this. I don’t know if I love him and I’m afraid. I don’t want to hurt someone I care about. Gosh. Tears in my eyes just writing those words.

    I’ve been praying for God to guide me in all things and these days I’m actually listening. I keep “hearing” that I’m going to meet my guy at church. So is Mr. Fab Kisser my guy since he’s going to church WITH me, or is it someone else I’ll meet AT church? I know that’s boy thinking but I’m really listening for God now. And the answer I keep getting is no, this is not the boy. I feel afraid to say that to him for fear that I’m wrong. And how weird would it be to say that to him?!? I dunno. There is a conversation I want to have with him about him being saved and his spiritual walk. Maybe this is a part of it. I want a man to be the spiritual leader in my family. I don’t want someone who is unevenly yoked with me. I’m finally getting this stuff and knowing what I want. Yet I still feel afraid to say these things outloud. Trial by fire here soon.



  8.  #8tinque on January 25, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Maybe there’s no need to say anything at this point. You are both still in the unfolding stage of your relationship. You won’t necessarily know now, and that’s perfectly acceptable. Things will reveal themselves as they will. Try to relax.
    xxoo



  9.  #9lm on January 25, 2010 at 9:04 am

    i feel like my own relationship is a lot like this. i feel good reading this.



  10.  #10Tina on January 25, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Awe, I thought it was cute, poor guy though showing signs of weakness if front of the manly man club lol. I for one would not go bungee jumping manly man or not. Vienna rocks lol ! She is a trooper for sure.



  11.  #11Tina on January 25, 2010 at 11:23 am

    I dont own a tv so Im catching it on youtube which takes forever to download grrrrrrrr.



  12.  #12Titrtle Girl on January 25, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Hi Ladies-

    Want feminine energy-check out the artist John William Waterhouse images on google. He paints maidens and on of my favorites is title Ulysses and the Sirens!

    http://robertarood.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/john_william_waterhouse_-_ulysses_and_the_sirens_1891.jpg

    I put it on my desktop for wallpaper! The sirens are half women and half bird! I love it!
    Love

    Turtle Girl :o)



  13.  #13Daria on January 25, 2010 at 11:47 am

    This feels so confusing Rori!!!

    What did you mean by this:

    “It seemed, when this was going on, that she wasn’t even FEELING the “ewww” – which, if I were him, would cement me to her forever”

    what would cement her to him? NOT feeling the eww?

    FEELING the eww?

    i feel shaky and confused and crinkled brow



  14.  #14Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Turtle Girl – I love all these paintings of Sirens – I saw and used everything I could find when I was doing research for my Modern Siren program…this image of “wings” is one of the 8 Aspects – Love, Rori



  15.  #15Tina on January 25, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    yeah, good question Daria, I wanna know too.



  16.  #16Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    FemEnergyLove – you handled this brilliantly. Go girl! Love, Rori



  17.  #17Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    SS – Love grows. It’s about intimacy. As you start to share yourself on a deeper and deeper level, as you allow yourself to be “raw” with a man instead of all polished and surface – you FEEL love. You FEEL romance. Love songs start to take on a new meaning to you. It becomes a TEAM thing. Don’t worry so much about labeling this right now. Just focus on how it feels – and if it feels GOOD!! If it feels good, just keep doing what feels good, and letting him do what feels good to you. The rest will unfold…Love, Rori



  18.  #18Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    SS – Fear is part of the journey. Just don’t let it pull you onto the “Fear Track.” All you need to do to keep that from happening is stay with what feels GOOD. NOT what feels SAFE – but what feels GOOD…



  19.  #19Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Daria – I’ve gone round about this — and it’s a much bigger concept, so thank you for pointing that out. Basically…we’re going to feel stuff – and when a man goes feminine, we’re going to feel “ewww” and/OR we’re going to feel “awwwhhhhh…” – and we’re going to kick in and either withdraw from him or move toward him, go boy and nurture him. Which is TOTALLY OKAY, as long as it’s a hat-switching, a balancing, a teamwork process – where you and a man support ALL of each other. You can only do this if a man has a very developed masculine side, too, and you can be in your feminine whenever you want. The fact that we can have any and all reactions – but GO with whatever is accepting and loving of a person – is going to cement them to us – the thing is – we don’t want to do this with a man who is not meeting our needs, who is not PRIMARILY in his masculine energy and facilitating us to be in our feminine energy. Otherwise, we’re overfunctioning. We’re doing everything we’re learning here NOT to do. We’re going to “mothering.” At this moment, in what we saw on film, under tremendous stress, Vienna seemed like a primarily feminine energy woman who jumped quick into masculine energy (she said “Okay, let’s go do this…”) and then flipped right back out. This way – he was able to go with his moment of “girl” and then regain her respect, regain his footing, and talk about the experience in a mental way and what it meant to him. He basically said he needed a team player who could “nurture” him sometimes – so he would know if she would be a good mother to his children.

    Because Vienna (as far as I can tell from here) seems to be a primarily feminine energy woman – she has MUCH MORE room to move. She’s clearly one of the very few feminine energy women on the show…but she’s got other issues, including being just “young” emotionally and experiencially. I think this man has most powerful attractions to masculine energy women – but figured out here that this was working against him, and is now zeroing in on the more feminine energy women (as much as he can tell).

    If we use Circular Dating to do the same thing – we’ll notice that we’re attracted to feminine energy men so that we can stay in our comfort zones of our own masculine energy. If he can turn this around for himself – so can we all! Love, Rori



  20.  #20Melanie on January 25, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Shannon, I know just what you mean about “hearing” etc. About a year ago, I “heard” that I would marry a particular guy that I have not yet dated (chatted a bit via email) b/c he just got full custody of his young kids and is not dating right now. At first I was happy and excited about that, but now I have become very interested in TN man, and I say to myself “maybe I was wrong about what I ‘heard,’ ” because I want TN man to be the one!! But then, when I get scared that maybe TN man isn’t as into me as I am him, I fall back on, “well, I’m gonna marry that other guy anyway.” But I feel sad when I think that, because I really adore TN man. Messed up, right?



  21.  #21Melanie on January 25, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Rori, the GOOD vs. SAFE thing: How does that apply when there is fear of abandonment (which I am just realizing I have)? I feel good when I am interacting with TN man, but I also feel scared that he will abandon me (which does not feel “safe.”) So am I on the “Fear Track” or not? If so, how do I get off it? Thanks.



  22.  #22Melanie on January 25, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Thanks TG! I set it as wallpaper too!



  23.  #23Katie on January 25, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    We don’t get that prog in UK, but it’s an interesting post – how ‘girl/boy’ interacts.

    I do feel comfortable in ‘boy’ mode myself, but really I am a very feminine person too!

    I spent the past 2 weeks being a caring nurturing (boy energy) companion/friend (or agony aunt) to a guy called Steve i know who had just split with his lady/fiance. He said such things as…’Can I come over’….’I’d love your company’….’ I’d love to go for a walk’…..’Would you like to go to a show’…’thanks for, this,that’ etc (all platonic). We spent time together, and I like him I was being SERIOUSLY TRIGGERED ( I mean he’s a guy I could fall for, truly). The great thing here for me was I practised Rori’s ‘tools’, listening, feeling messages etc knowing he was in no state for a real relationship with me, I felt his pain and wanted to help. And …oh yes… there’s chemistry okay between us for sure!!! He’s a sweet man and as I predicted they are now back together, him and his lady.

    I reckon I handled the situation well, I mean REALLY WELL! I gave him a big hug and said I was soooo pleased they’d found eachother again. BUT sometime after I had a huge desire to go call at my ex’s house ughh!! I drove up parked sat there and it didn’t feel good so I drove home pheww!

    Then yesterday I needed some techie support with my PC, so I phoned the ex and he said he’d help later in the week. But it didn’t feel good, the prospect of him calling at my place for THAT purpose at my asking. So today, with determination I fixed it myself – it took ages. Then I phoned him to say as much, and I said he had his Thursday evening back!!! Hah. I had a huge outburst of anger at that point after phone call and smashed a cup on the floor. It shattered – hey – good therapy.

    I felt a mess, I felt unhinged for a while, I mean I loved this guy, I am a great woman, I gave him loads of good energy and it all just went down the toilet last year. My son cried too when he found out we split). Oh god I still feel such grief! I feel such rage, I feel such loss! Why is it that it is possible to handle one situation well, to not even think about the ex much for several weeks. I Vowed to myself that I am through with all that crap over him and then plunge straight back into the abyss?

    It’s okay I’ll surface again, it’s just I thought that I’d accepted the split and moved on, it is nearly six months ago, but I am sitting here with tears rolling down my cheeks… again!



  24.  #24Katie on January 25, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    I said my Son cried too … just to explain the ex man is not his father. But we had a relationship for 2 years.



  25.  #25Liz on January 25, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I feel relieved to read this post!! Despite my frequent lurking/reading of this blog, I’ve never really sensed that RR endorsed a woman going into boy mode at all with a guy. So, this phrase felt welcoming to me because it’s how I’ve been yearning to function within the RR mantra but didn’t feel from my reading that it was encouraged or that it was okay:
    “…or move toward him, go boy and nurture him. Which is TOTALLY OKAY, as long as it’s a hat-switching, a balancing, a teamwork process – where you and a man support ALL of each other.”

    Hat/energy-switching if needed to support your man in the here and now is a-okay. What a relief!



  26.  #26Lisa on January 25, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    S. Shannon,

    You are a caring person, but the truth is, very few relationships will go the full distance. So when it becomes serious, we ride it out to its end. I find with myself, it is damaging to the spirit of the thing if I am analyzing the ultimate outcome, because — I cannot know it! If I am truly out of the control mode, the only thing I can do is ride the wave.

    It well may not end in marriage, and one or both may feel sad or regret when it ends. But I can’t see any other way. If we control (want answers) we may truncate something prematurely.

    I am learning that the right way is to be open, until irrefutable signs that things aren’t working. As long as you’re not forcing anything — like Rori says, if it feels good, and not just safe — then you are developing, which I believe is the correct way to live.

    Do you agree?



  27.  #27Lisa on January 25, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Katie,

    I commiserate! I can feel really good, then hear a song from the early days and just crumble. I am coming to understand this latent sadness.

    It is more a regret/anger that my trust was betrayed. I was deeply disappointed. So I am mad + sad. These discrete pockets of buried emotion just need to come out, I think. Sunlight is such an excellent disinfectant, and in my case, I’d been submerging things for a long time.

    So it’ll take a big bottle of Lysol and sunlight to chase it all away. But I’m on a mission 🙂



  28.  #28Turtle Girl on January 25, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I like this post. I do not watch tv at all, but I can figure out from the post what’s happening. I love the fact that the guy is figuring out his own shit right then and there and what has not worked for him in the past and is making a different choice, even though maybe he is confused and does not know the outcome. That takes balls to do that on screen. Wow.

    Things kinds of changes are so hard. I just today finally hard to email toxic man ex. I had jumped on my horse and rode away and had been ignoring his emails. But he just keep sending them. He thinks that I agreed to be friends even though I did not.

    Or he is slowing trying to worm his way back into my world so he can abuse me and use me some more. No thanks. I finally got the courage to send him a response.

    It said: “Please take me off your email list and stop emailing me. Thanks.”

    It wasn’t two minutes he emailed me back because he HAD TO HAVE THE LAST WORD- His response said: Done.

    That was it.

    But it really hurts to know that now it is really really finally over for good. Not friends. Not anything. I know I had to do it. He is toxic. He was not good for me. He always kept me off balance. I never knew what was up with him. He was disrespectful, no empathy at all, made fun of my feelings, would not communicate, withdrew, lied, the list is long. He was toxic. Period. But it still hurts like hell. I loved the parts of him that were not toxic. When he could be sweet and tender and hold me and call me every day and act as if he cared. But then the ugly would come out.

    But I had to cut him totally loose for my own good, because every gd time I would see his name pop up on my email I would feel like he was just digging around in the wound some more and I could not take it any longer. I did it to protect myself from his negative energy. It’s ironic. He always accused me of having negative energy. But he was very passive aggressive and projected his own shit on to me. Sigh….I am so tired I think I could sleep for a week. I was not sleeping because he kept emailing me and upsetting me. Now maybe finally I can get some sleep……



  29.  #29Lisa on January 25, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Turtle,

    My heart is with you. Funny how this sort must have the last word. Mine finished with some unfounded accusations toward me and my rebuttal, which laid out the actual facts in a couple of sentences, followed by, “I never cheated on you. The end.”

    And that was the end. Done. “The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is” (Winston Churchill).

    Let’s make a resolve to do some detox work this week, emotionally and physically, however you choose to do this. We will go on the path together, yes? 🙂

    There is a good life waiting to enter, if we will remove the barricades (as you have just done.)



  30.  #30Lisa on January 25, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Turtle,

    p.s. — the hardest thing can be imagining we are losing the good (and there was always some good.)

    The way I choose to counter this is to say, nothing is set in stone. For now, this is what I need. I choose to ingather good things, and if he can offer something good, when I am farther along and stronger, I will take it in good faith. If he is a large person in any way, there may come a time when his presence will fulfill some need.

    But, I will not hang my hat on it.



  31.  #31Katie on January 25, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Hi Lisa

    True about sunlight! And thank you for these words, I feel understood. ‘Discrete pockets of buried emotion’, yes very much so, the difference for me now is that I am not stuffing it all down nearly so much. I am learning so much too.



  32.  #32Katie on January 25, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Turtle Girl

    Hi. It is hard to say ‘that’s it’ for good, it really hurts! But hey, you’ve been strong and stood by yourself, rather than just go along with what he wanted. Perhaps that is what I must do too!



  33.  #33Turtle Girl on January 25, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Thank you Lisa-thank you so much for you kind words and support. I fell so hollowed out right now.

    And you are so right-the truth is what it is-the truth-no matter how he tried to twist it, shape it, convert it, dismiss it, manipulate it, twist it—the truth remains what it is. It stand alone on it’s on.

    And he always had to be right and have the last word-a sign of control issues and deep insecurity.

    And this is what I need right now. I need to be free of his emails and all contact so I can be crystal clear of what it is I need and want in a man. So that I change and grow and learn that I do not have to put up with this kind of bs from him or any man. That I deserve love and honesty and truth and compassion and integrity.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that down the line I may not want him back. That I will never tolerate that kind of behavior again from any man. But now I do not feel that. I am still hurting and I need time.
    I have been dating a lot for the last two months, as I said in a another post, but currently have nothing planned with men and no one on my dance card. I have been going out with girlfriends and dating myself recently.

    And you are right again, nothing is set in stone. Maybe a miracle will happen in his life during the time I am not seeing him. Maybe he will get clean, maybe he will pull his head out of his ass, maybe he will wake up and realize how much he effed up in losing me. But I won’t hang my hat on it….

    There is a good life waiting, and daylight is burning! This weekend I am going to do all that I can to sooth me and support me and be nice to me.
    I hope you do the same.
    Love and hugs
    Turtle Girl



  34.  #34Turtle Girl on January 25, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Katie-

    Even though it sucks and even though I am hurting – I know deep down it is the right thing to do for Turtle Girl. I am protecting her. I am loving her. I am shielding her from more hurt and further humiliation and reminders of the pain that he caused during her relationship. This is how I do it. I step back-

    I look at me as if I was another friend objectively looking at the situation. When I do that I am angry and incensed that he treated ‘her” the way he did.
    Turtle Girl deserves to be loved by a good man. So that is why I ended it once and for all and final. No more. Done. Stop contact.

    He wanted to stay friends because it makes him feel like the good guy. After all if I stay his friend, then he couldn’t have been that terrible to me, right? It is a sick way of assuaging his own guilt. He knows he was a bastard. He knows he was EU. He knows he was mean. But if he could pull off again, the relationship ON HIS TERMS



  35.  #35Turtle Girl on January 25, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Katie-

    Even though it sucks and even though I am hurting – I know deep down it is the right thing to do for Turtle Girl. I am protecting her. I am loving her. I am shielding her from more hurt and further humiliation and reminders of the pain that he caused during her relationship. This is how I do it. I step back-

    I look at me as if I was another friend objectively looking at the situation. When I do that I am angry and incensed that he treated ‘her” the way he did.
    Turtle Girl deserves to be loved by a good man. So that is why I ended it once and for all and final. No more. Done. Stop contact.

    He wanted to stay friends because it makes him feel like the good guy. After all if I stay his friend, then he couldn’t have been that terrible to me, right? It is a sick way of assuaging his own guilt. He knows he was a bastard. He knows he was EU. He knows he was mean. But if he could pull off again, the relationship ON HIS TERMS then he gets to feel better. But what about what I feel? Yeah, that’s just it. I don’t feel good being his friend.



  36.  #36Lisa on January 25, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Turtle says,

    “I deserve love and honesty and truth and compassion and integrity” — amen, sister. Nothing less. That is not a high bar for a man (or a human.)

    Far as he (any “he”) goes, “Old Time is still a-flying” as the cavalier poet Herrick said (we’ll forget that he was trying to get into a girl’s panties at the moment) 🙂 This is our time.

    “This weekend I am going to do all that I can to sooth me and support me and be nice to me” — Excellent! I will do the same (I do much better when I have promised someone I will do something.)

    Goodnight to an exceptional lady, Turtle 🙂



  37.  #37Daria on January 25, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    I am feeling sad and triggered. Because one of my toxic exes is psychically begging me for help.

    I see him in lil boy form begging me for help, holding out his arms and crying for his mom me not to leave him. I feel his energy craving comfort and healing.

    I want to give this to him and I don’t know how!

    I jsut did some EFT on it and feel slightly better, but I feel so sad.

    I DO NOT want to abandon him and leave this little boy unhealed.

    and I do not want to hurt myself or be drained or be with him out of wanting to heal this.

    I need help.

    Angels please hear me . I want help with this.

    Thank you.

    I feel angry and resentful at an EFT friend of mine. Who could help with this. But i feel angry thinking of contacting her, because I do not want to be used as business grower for her, because I feel angry, I feel angry that I would not get help from her just for needing it. I feel so judgemental and to me this looks cruel and shallow. And i don’t want to lower myself to beg help of someone in a way that doesn’t feel good, that feels like desperation and working with someone who’s energy feels not caring enough for me in this case.

    I ask for healing

    Thank you.

    Angels please help me heal this boy. Thank you.

    I want to hug him and say its ok its ok.

    Aww . I love you. I will help you. I will help you in a way that feels good for both of us. The Angels will help us. Thank you for coming to me. You are a good little boy for coming to me. Shhh. It’s going to be ok now, I promise. I will heal you. I will help you heal. I love you, and I love me too.

    Angels please help. Help quickly and heal this thoroughly thank you.



  38.  #38FEMERNGYLOVE on January 26, 2010 at 1:35 am

    I feel the fear creeping in,he initiates contact then backs away,several times these past too days.makes me almost overfunction! arrgghhh,i feel my boy hat coming on but i;m struggling to keep it off!anxiety…i’m not sinking into it,I’m fighting it,that’s the problem.i’m finding it hard to lean back now,ugh.sinking in to my feelings is what i should do.



  39.  #39FEMERNGYLOVE on January 26, 2010 at 1:42 am

    hmmmm,makes sense now with the switching,but only if he has a well developed masculine side as well.i get it



  40.  #40Linda on January 26, 2010 at 6:28 am

    Lisa..

    I totally agree. I am in a relationship right now that I am remaining open in. Not forcing anything, enjoying the day and what it brings and paying attention to what it doesnt.

    Yesterday, I was feeling neglected and a bit hungry from what was feeling like a diet of crumbs. There are things that are surfacing that I am accessing, deciding if they are deal breakers or not. Was not feeling positive really. My man called me after his job interview to tell me how it went. We were talking (I was at work) and I mentioned he could stop by my house and eat there if he wanted… he said that sounded like a good idea… next thing I knew he was walking in the door of my office with a big grin on his face!….He gave me a big hug and told he me loved me. Needless to say it made my day. The whole tone of things shifted by his simple act. He has NEVER done anything like that. I was floored by his gesture and sincerely touched. Just when I was feeling bored and unimportant… poof!

    I am sharing because, I am really working on not anaylizing and worring about final outcome with him. I can see and feel how what I am focused on changes my vibe. I have short and long term goals. My short term goal right now is to be relaxed, have fun, enjoy, not push, manipulate, worry, be anxious.

    I feel like I am developing right now just like he and our relationship is too.

    Linda

    I



  41.  #41Linda on January 26, 2010 at 6:44 am

    I watched the latest edition of the bachelor last night. I have never watched the show before ( I am not a fan of these types of shows)…

    I watched the different women. I watched him. I could see women being genuine and acting. I could see desperation, overfunctioning, insecurity. I could see confidence, strength. I felt tight and icky watching. (curious to me). I wondered what I would say and behave if it were me there. That made me feel like I wanted to hide in a closet, yet I secretly was testing myself, assessing it all.

    I will watch again even though the whole thing felt like such work and not entertainment at all !

    Linda



  42.  #42nash on January 26, 2010 at 8:02 am

    I need advice !! To make it short, I was going out with my ex boyfriend for two years and it was a pretty healthy relationship, but out of no where my boyfriend broke up with me. After a month of being broken up he called me crying that he wanted to get back with me.. so we got back together but a month into the relationship again he was normal one day but the other he was cold and distant. I approached him asking him what was the problem, that I was not feeling happy with the relationship because one day he was “hot” the other “cold.” So he basically told me he didn’t want to me with anyone. After a month or so he looked for me saying that he wanted to get back with me, so we started talking again and he disappeared after a couple of days we started talking, and basically it was like this for 6 months. That he would look for me tell me that he wanted to get bak with me, tell me all of this things but after a couple days into talking again he would start acting distant and cold. Recently in December I got tired of this cycle and the emotional unstableness I was in so I told him it was for both of us to keep on with our life’s because it seemed he was not 100% of wether not he wanted to be with me, all he said was: “I really do want to be with you but every time we start talking I don’t know.” He is basically not 100% sure. I love him to death, and I really wanted to work this out but I felt I was the only one trying. What can I do to get him back in a good way and make him stay. (I’m not the type that I will call him or any guy to beg them for love, but I do want to make this work) HELP



  43.  #43sia on January 26, 2010 at 8:34 am

    shannon,
    the cross situation reminded me of a guy I had 1 date with, we talked about a book I would like to read, few days later the book arrives to my work ordered from Amazon. It freaked me out.

    He was just being nice. I read a lot of advice to guys on how to become a pick up artist – they are similar to advice to women! One is – do not do too much for a woman, compliment sparingly etc., don’ t show how much you are invested, otherwise she will feel you do not have high value and subconsciously lose the respect AND the physical attraction for you. It is easy to think – THINK – I would like s guy who does everything for me, but I receive one book prematurely and all the thinking crumbles.

    It is not just men who want what is hard to get, it is us as well. Pick up advisers warn guys who are too nice to women, that they will endup in “friends” zone – so true! It happened to me I started off fancying someone, he acted like this and I liked him more, but became unattracted. That doesn’t mean the only possibility is going out with jerks – but – as someone else posted somewhere here – a man should act bit like James Bond – be playful and teasing, besides being nice.

    Your problem with the guy from church feels to me like you do not have strong attraction to him. Either he is sure of himself, and when you tell him you don’t know what you want, he will go with it and keep his options open – or – if he is how I used to be – he will hang about and hope and build an imaginary relationship with you, and yes, he will be hurt if you decide you don’t want him.

    This is a problem I have with circular dating. It might be I am avoiding guys who could be true because of old fear patterns – I am working on that one. I worry continuing with those guys I don’t feel too attracted to – as circular dating advises – lest I be like a guy which in pre-rori days I would get addicted to, despite him saying he isn’t looking for anything serious.

    I would say if you feel your guy is Hoping too strongly – think twice (or feel twice) before you continue seeing him. (and be ready, if he leaves, to want him suddenly – he heightened his value). Imagine it is now You in His position – pining for a guy who is not sure. If he is doing his version of Circular Dating, it is fine. If he is not, he will get hurt. We might say if we are straight with a guy, it is his choice and his responsibility not to hope too much. But then when we see he is hurting, we need to be ready to wash our hands! It is very difficult!!

    Anyone else here read PUA materials? What do you think?

    Anyone else “broke” a guy’s heart doing Circular Dating?



  44.  #44Lisa on January 26, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Linda,

    I’m glad you had that happy moment. These words are very important for me to keep in mind, too:

    “I can see and feel how what I am focused on changes my vibe.”

    Thank you for sharing.



  45.  #45JP on January 26, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Trying to subscribe to the interview series WITHOUT buying “Have the relationship you want” CD series…I already have it. How do I subscribe to JUST the interview series?



  46.  #46Kristine on January 26, 2010 at 9:04 am

    3 months ago I met the ultimate bachelor…he was sexy, sophisticated, successful, smart, single. He approached me, called me, we went out several times. He romanced me with flowers and cards. He emailed me every few days. I practiced all the tools and everything was working fine. Until one day, I told him I missed him…I was just expressing my feelings. His answer was that he didn’t want a relationship! Totally threw me for a loop! I had never even brought up the topic. I was just enjoying what he had to offer and receiving all his wonderful gifts. For some reason, when I mentioned my feelings, he panicked. After that, he never asked me out again. But he kept in touch, every few days, with emails, that I responded to. I finally got up the courage to tell him, via email, what I wanted for my life. I learned that it is not enough to just tell a man what you want, you have to actually follow through with it to send a consistent message. In other words, if he isn’t giving you what you want, LET HIM GO! Just walk away…without anger or explanation. That is the hardest part. I got tired of the emails from him. Last week, he emailed me with more questions and asking about me and telling me about his day, etc., and I simply replied…”I want to talk in person or at least by phone”. No anger. No explanations needed. No need to even discuss feelings. Just what I want, because I know what I need. I never answered his questions. I just let him be, to see what he would do. Sure enough, 4 days go by and I get another email from him, asking about my day, as if nothing had happened. Now that really made me feel angry and gross. I felt disrespected. I had asked for something very simple and he ignored me. He ignored my basic needs. Almost abusive isn’t it? So I am strong now. I am not responding. I don’t even feel I have to tell him how it hurts. It won’t change anything. There is nothing to respond to. His behaviour is not in-line with what I want.

    I have learned two things from this which I want to share with you all. First, if a man’s behaviour is not acceptable and it triggers you, makes you feel bad, doesn’t feel good and connected, then only YOU can change it. It’s not about him. It’s about YOU. I asked myself why do I keep putting up with this??? I simply don’t have to accept it by not responding to his emails. Why do I keep doing it? Out of fear of losing him and losing the good times we had. Once you realize you deserve to at least have your basic needs met, you are prepared to lose. You’ve got to lose to gain what you want.

    Which brings me to the second thing I learned. How to deal with loss. I have been reading a lot lately about grief and dying. Something a lot of people try to avoid. The point is, you cannot avoid it. Loss comes into everyones lives and the more we try to fight it, the longer it takes to get through it and heal. Don’t listen to people who say “you’ve got to be strong”. Don’t distract yourself from loss with other things (sometimes I did this by chasing another toxic man, just to get over the previous one). The only way to heal a loss, is to sink into it. Feel it deeply. Sit with it for days or weeks if need be. Don’t be afraid of being weak. It’s like being sick. Only its not a physical illness, its emotional. You have to rest. I also learned that this grieving process often brings up other buried losses that we have never grieved. So we feel more pain. There is no way around the pain. You have to GO THROUGH THE PAIN AND EXPERIENCE IT! It’s the only way to healing. Pamper yourself. Nurture yourself. Comfort yourself. Treat your wounded heart as you would an injured animal. Hold it and caress it and just sit with it and comfort it. Rori talks about this in her break-ups section and I found that very helpful.
    After a while, you will start to notice something. The body really is an amazing machine. It will heal itself. And it won’t take forever. It will begin to heal all the emotional trauma and losses that you have suffered, if you are willing to let them out into the sunlight to be healed.
    And then the miraculous thing happens…you start to feel good again. The sun really does shine after the rain. And you are now way stronger than you ever were before…and way more beautiful and attractive to men around you.

    I think men can sense when a woman is damaged and needs healing. The good guys run from that. They don’t want to be fixing YOU. They can never fix you or fill up your loss. Only you can do that. Once you are healed and whole, they come to you. They want to be around your inner beauty…they feel your light shining.

    Even though I am sad, I have not given up on my bachelor guy…I think he needs to find his own truth. For now I just keep going down my path and taking care of myself. I am not afraid to lose him anymore. I welcome all the attention I get from other men now. Nice men who really want to treat me well. Who want to talk to me in person…not just immature guys afraid of relationships who want to hide behind electronic communication because it feels safer for them.

    But it all starts with knowing what you want. Sticking to your path. Accepting and grieving your losses…and then learning to relax and go with the flow : )

    Have a great day Goddesses!

    Kristine



  47.  #47Trisha on January 26, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Dear Turtle Girl, you have put into words what i have been trying to process these last 5 days of yet another pulling away of my Mr.6 years. i must be going through some kind of withdrawal of this man’s control b/c i haven’t made any gestures what so ever to lean toward him. Rori has said it’s for one of 3 reasons..1..he’s angry at me and anger won’t LET him contact me 2. he’s guilty about something and can’t face me, 3. He’s moving on.
    Please feel free to read my story on the post “Rules to find and get the perfect man”. You will see what i had been going through. i was made to feel i was nothing but selfish and self centered. Now i’m understanding it was his projection of his guilt, anger and shame about himself. i must admit though, i still didn’t have a handle on the balancing of “boy – girl” energy. i have been taking care of myself since i’m 16 yrs old. He is a very giving man with a big heart yet all his gift giving and acts of service (i don’t mean sex) just didn’t make me feel loved! i need lots of affection, and quality time, THEN i FEEL loved. He would always withhold these b/c he wanted me to be nicer to him. Gosh, i hate these breakups YET it hurt to be IN the relationship too! Always feeling like it was never satisfying. He would hold my hand yet kiss me on the forehead. Give me a warm hug and pull away while i was still enjoying it. CRUMBS! CONTROL! And why? B/c HIS life was so out of control. i would often think, “that mask he wears HAS to be hurting his face…it’s so damn tight!!”
    Everytime i think i won’t do the crying thing about it anymore…yup…you guessed it…
    i suppose all this “loving myself” stuff makes me feel scared i just may end up with… ONLY myself.



  48.  #48Tina on January 26, 2010 at 10:40 am

    I love my belly *sigh. This feels weird that I love my belly. My boy is taking care of my girl , I did some cardio, I can to the realization that I didnt love my belly *sniff. I work out but dont love my belly, it’s like my belly isnt there. I got to love my belly. I love my belly, I love my belly, now my belly is hungry. tangerines yum. I have been feeling ‘stuck” again. I feel stuck. I feel stuck. Feeling stuck makes me feel crazy. My boy is taking care of my girl with three boiled eggs and tangerines 🙂

    I dont feel like I have room to take care of a mans “feminine”, I feel selfish. I am feeling selfish, a good selfish. I feel good that my boy is taking care of my girl. My boy is going to take care of my girl for the day, well at least for now. I’m going to consciously practice this all day. I only have room for me today.



  49.  #49Simply Shannon on January 26, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Subscribing again because apparently I did it wrong the first time. I feel frustrated. Grrr.



  50.  #50Tina on January 26, 2010 at 11:19 am

    I wonder if “Vienna” will start to feel resentful? probibly not because he manned up and hugged her and kissed her while hanging upside down like bats 🙂 hehe. Does “he” have a well developed masculine side?



  51.  #51gina on January 26, 2010 at 11:35 am

    uh oh. I just got done watching and was thinking about what a bunch of crazies they all are, but then I felt like I could relate to the chick who he thought was “teasing” him. Men have said I was a tease before. And I actually LOVE teasing. I’m not sure what that’s about. But I can see how, if I was there, I would feel like I was getting teased if I kissed and connected with him, and then he goes off and does the same thing the next day with the other girls. I would feel more powerful if I withheld some of “the goods” until he was good and sure about me. But I would want him to experience his desire for me, so I might want to tease him. I can see how i could be more like Vienna if I was in “open” mode. But if I was feeling defensive, I would probably be “a tease.” I like teasing WAAAAY more than receiving so far. And my favorite relationship so far was with a lover who I knew loved me, but we never acknowledged it, and the uncertainty and excitement of it was such a huge thrill. He was the only man who I’ve felt free to be physically connected to, because we were teasing each other emotionally. Then, he moved away and we connected emotionally over the phone, and we were a tease for each other physically. I always though this was the way I’ve been cause I hadn’t found the “right guy” to inspire me to be available. But I dunno. I see how this chick was behaving, and she had a similar belief (she was waiting for him to prove himself worthy), and I see how it was impossible for him to really give anything to her, and how he felt turned on, but repelled at the same time. I wondered how men, who were obviously turned on, turned away from me, and I think I get it a little better now.



  52.  #52Kristine on January 26, 2010 at 11:36 am

    So as I was typing my earlier comment, I got another (3rd) email from my bachelor guy. Again he asks how is my week going? Tells me how crazy busy his work is, what he is doing and how tired he is…kind of felt like he was testing me to see if I will come running to nurture him or give him advice. Then he signs off wishing me well, hoping I’m having a great day. It was interesting. Even though I have not responded to 3 of his emails so far…he keeps coming back. I am not telling him what to do or not do. I keep telling myself he is a man. He can figure it out for himself. I’m also not running to save him. Again, he is a man and can take care of himself. If he can’t take care of himself, he will never be able to take care of me and my children.

    I also noticed that I started to feel guilty. Really guilty for not responding. He’s being so nice. He’s not angry with me for not contacting him. He’s genuinely caring and interested in me. He’s not doing anything wrong….well, except for that one thing which is not so little…he doesn’t want to call me or see me in person and he doesn’t want a relationship. So why does he keep emailing me?
    I feel frustrated….ok, I felt it and now I realize its because I can’t control him. Yes you cannot control a man. You can tell him what you want for yourself, but you cannot tell him to do it or how to do it. He has to figure it out for himself. He is NOT a child. He does NOT need your help. In fact, I believe he is subconciously testing me to see if I am strong enough as a woman to be his mate. This goes back to biology. We cannot undo thousands of years of biological programming. Men will always be hunters and protectors. Women need to accept that about their men in order to have a good relationship. Men who are still children are looking for a “mommy” to take care of them. But a mature grown healthy man, does NOT want a mommy. He wants a female that he can serve and who will be the mommy for his offspring….not him. He wants to prove that he can do things himself. That he can do his work, bring in the bacon, support his family, deal with his own stress and physical weaknesses.
    The minute we try to help him out with what we think are his problems (unless he really asks us directly for our opinion) he loses total attraction for us.

    So I will sit on my hands, feel my guilty and frustrating feelings, and NOT email him back….again. He hasn’t offered me anything. He is still not giving me what I want. Underneath I know he wants me to be a challenge. He doesn’t want me to give in to a “friendship” on his terms. He wants me to stand my ground and stick to my boundaries. That way he can prove to me he is a real man, worthy of my love.

    Kristine



  53.  #53Daria on January 26, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I dont feel like I have room to take care of a mans “feminine”,

    Goddam it tina. you really rock. i love you man. Goddess.



  54.  #54Daria on January 26, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Gina tell me more. I really love being playfully teased and teasing men too. I used to take it to the extreme. I practice not doing it when I open, and I practice looking at my energy (am I really feeling insecure and trying to cover it?)

    My Dad teases me constantly as his form of affection. It makes me giggle and feel happy.

    But then sometimes I feel sad thinking that I don’t get out and out praise.



  55.  #55Daria on January 26, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Hi Kristine –

    I have been feeling grief too! I’ve been allowing myself to cry. Even if I was just about to eat, and something really sad from a book I read comes out, I let myself cry . It feels good. It does feel like healing. I feel blessed by my tears.

    Thank you.



  56.  #56Daria on January 26, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Thank you Kristine…

    I love this

    Men who are still children are looking for a “mommy” to take care of them. But a mature grown healthy man, does NOT want a mommy. He wants a female that he can serve and who will be the mommy for his offspring….not him

    I’m feeling guilty because my ex i feel is looking for a mommy. I feel so BAD and sad thinking about him. I know his mom and i feel judgemental towards her.

    I promised I would send him pictures and I have not. I haven’t received anything from him dating wise really. So i don’t really want to give by sending him pictures. Although he begged me for them, and I did say i would. I just felt icky to do it. BUt now I kind of feel like doing it. I did tell him I would. that is why.

    mmm… i feel sad. I feel sad for the really sad feeling I feel for him wanting his mom, and feeling abandoned by me not sending him pictures after i promised. awww

    i love myself and my guilt and confusion. Thank you.



  57.  #57Turtle Girl on January 26, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Kristine-

    You are so right girl!!!! DO NOT RESPOND. You already told him you wanted a phone convo, not an email. He is testing you. My ex toxic man did this and I caved, and he then lost respect. That is how it happens. They pur us through all sorts of “test runs” over and over and over again. To see if we will be strong, to see if we will stick with our ground, to see if they can control us or run things, even though they know that in truth they want us to run the emotional part.

    If you give in, then he’s “got you” and well, there it is. Changes the whole dynamic of the relationship. It did mine. I effed it all up. But in truth so did he.
    I sometimes feel that is really sucks because it seems like everything in the relationship is up to us women to solve. We had to be the ones to get it right. What about them? Should they not read everything they can about women and learn to meet us on our turf as well. I sometimes resent this. I have to be the one who “get it” while they can just sit back and respond to our “superior relationship knowledge”. Fuck-it just drives me crazy sometimes with all this stuff……



  58.  #58gina on January 26, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Hey Daria,
    My way of teasing isn’t so much playful banter, but if I’m super attracted to a man, I like to get him good and turned on, but not follow through. I feel really powerful. I guess what I’m REALLY feeling is vulnerable and scared, and rather than stay there, I try to dominate by withholding sex and affection. Like the bachelor was saying – dangling the carrot. I think this comes from some distorted interpretation of being “hard to get.”
    But I can definitely see a parallel to verbal teasing. I get “teased” all the time at work, by men who know that they can’t have me physically, so they withhold affection and respect. I guess it’s all about power dynamics. Though, it’s interesting to realize that the person being teased actually has the most power, so long as they can recognize the insecurity of the one doing the teasing. But, it sounds like you (and the bachelor) don’t long for power to abuse or as a defense, but for a win-win loving relationship with those doing the teasing. I wish men had been willing to communicate with me about playing games…I think I would feel safe about knocking it off if he wouldn’t tolerate a defensive posture, but wasn’t itching to leave me for it either. I think it’s unrealistic for me to have expected men to “work with me” on my defensiveness. But a family member is different. Do you think your dad wishes someone would call his bluff? Would it feel good for you to?



  59.  #59gina on January 26, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Oh and i always was a tease to my dad – he always wants lots of hugs, and I genuinely feel overwhelmed…but sometimes I would act like I didn’t want to give him love when I really did. Sometimes, after making a big show of how I didn’t want to come give him a hug, I’d turn my face away so he couldn’t see that I was crying cause I felt touched by his affection, and guilty about my unwillingness/inability to give in return. I really do wish I wasn’t allowed to get away with that (I think it was more my mom’s “fault” – but she’s a cold fish with the same struggle). I know that i’m a big girl and have to take responsibility for myself. But I’d sure love it if somebody just “didn’t let me.” It seems like that’s what that girl in the show was waiting for, too. But he let her go figure out how to do it on her own. I guess he sensed that she had an “issue” there, and it didn’t feel good for him, and he wasn’t willing to take on the job of fixing it. He’d be unhealthy if he did. Which, sheds some light on why my only real “relationship” was with a man who stalked me after I ended it. But that was a long time ago, and I know that I have grown, but this is definitely an area that needs focused attention in order to heal.



  60.  #60Daria on January 26, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    OMG!

    I was just reading Rori’s e-letter. And I got something!

    In today’s letter, you said, “But it’s not about
    what you can do to CHANGE him, it’s all about
    what you need to do to feel good about yourself
    and LOVE yourself enough to not CARE about
    changing him.”

    Helping him by actually HELPING him does the
    reverse of what we want.

    Our very GOODNESS backfires on us!

    So what are we supposed to do instead?

    Here’s the secret:

    Use all that goodness, understanding, support
    and niceness on YOURSELF!

    As soon as you start building yourself up by
    giving yourself the energy and love you’ve been
    giving to HIM, you feel strong enough inside to
    OPEN UP on the outside.

    OMG!!!

    YEs. I turned and loved myself. I loved the myself that feels hurt and pulled towards him to nurture him, that feels guilty for not caring for him!!! ohhhh… and it made a tiny shift… which was enough to see…

    I CAN TELLL HIM about this. Tell him I feel pulled this way – maybe even tell him how i see his spirit as a little boy wanting love from mommy or someone else – tell him I feel sooo pulled to give to him and I don’t want to, because I don’t feel that will give me the man I want, the relationship I want. – and that he has to love himself…. or maybe I won’t say that part, being his business, I don’t know —

    but I can share how I feel… and how I don’t want that.

    And I can give him back the power over this pulling hurt, by opening it up and shedding light on it.

    And I give myself compassion, for standing here feeling pulled, and hurting, and feeling confused.

    ohhh

    this is cool. this is very cool.

    this is very very cool.

    I would NOT be helping him by nurturing him. I would just be assuaging him and allowing him to attach to me in a way that would NOT make a relationship with me .

    He doesn’t want to NOT make a relationship with me, and connect in this way.

    that would not work for him either.

    ME being clear and loving myself will allow him to heal too, and see whats going on, and maybe even get what he wants, a real relationship with me… wow!



  61.  #61Daria on January 26, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    well my dad and I say stuff to each other like: “you suck” in a playful way. or like… your’e the biggest headed person on earth… or like your brain is so small it rattles…. stuff like that. they’re jokes…

    mmm

    one time i did say that i did not want to be made fun of all the time… i was really open and vulnerable saying it

    at first he started getting defensive, like wait, did u really think i meant it, but then i think he did kinda understand what i meant

    i mean it would feel good to also have a lot of… wow youre so wonderful and smart, as well.



  62.  #62Rori Raye on January 26, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Jp – Here’s the link to the catalog page When you get there, click on the “Monthly Interviews” link in the upper left corner, go to the bottom of the description, and the link will take you to get the interview series directly….(Fantastic one with the first couple I’ve ever talked to together coming up – so get it now) Love, Rori



  63.  #63Lisa on January 26, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Kristine,

    Thank you for an inspired post.

    You say:

    “I think men can sense when a woman is damaged and needs healing. The good guys run from that. They don’t want to be fixing YOU. They can never fix you or fill up your loss. Only you can do that. Once you are healed and whole, they come to you. They want to be around your inner beauty…they feel your light shining.”

    Very true! Conversely, bad/sick men will also identify our neediness, and exploit that. So in order to stay whole and sane, we must heal ourselves. The knight in shining armor does not fix us, he recognizes our “goddess” nature.

    Cinderella’s shoe already fits.



  64.  #64Rori Raye on January 26, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    sia – Yep – I know all about PUA, in fact, a young, totally inexperienced girl I know very well is dating a PUA coach – and she’s doing GREAT with him – because she’s so totally honest and straightforward. He can’t game her, and so she’s incredibly attractive to him. The thing is – PUA is based on the concept that we’re all screwed up!!! And it’s true! We’re all afraid of intimacy, so we push away love. Pushing away a man who’s “needy” and “desperate” is a whole different thing than pushing a good man away who is pursuing you. You are pushing a good man away. Now is the time to break this pattern, and start LOVING the idea that men will be all over you, all over themselves and each other trying to get to you. Valuing only men who don’t value you is old, bad for you, and will keep you stuck without love forever. Letting love in, encouraging a man who is pursuing you by RECEIVING what he gives with warmth will get you EVERYTHING. Responding to a man is very different from chasing after him. We’re learning to receive and respond. Love, Rori



  65.  #65Simply Shannon on January 26, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Lisa, No, I don’t agree. Few relationships go the distance? That feels limiting, like I’m setting this one relationship up to fail before it even gets started. I understand what you’re saying but I’m not really looking for a final answer or assuming we’re gonna get married. He’s actually the one talking about “if we get married”, and my little ol’ brain is saying “wait a second… I’m still figuring out how I feel”. 🙂



  66.  #66Simply Shannon on January 26, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Thank you Rori! I’m just really fascinated by the fact that I don’t know what “love” feels like. I thought I knew but I really don’t. It’s refreshing and scary all at the same time. This feels different from any relationship I’ve had with a man. And it feels good because I’m not flipping out either way. I’m learning and changing and opening my eyes to what’s real. That feels GREAT regardless of the outcome.

    What’s real? What’s made up in my head? What is love? When do I know that the voice in my head is truthful or just my fears pushing me to go back to what I know? This is fascinating stuff!

    We are having deep conversations. He’s getting to see that the wizard behind the curtain is just ME. 😀 I guess where I trip up is I feel worried to say the words “I don’t feel ready to call this love because I don’t know what I’m feeling or what love is anymore”. We’ll just see what happens in the moment. So far he hasn’t said the L word except that once after church on Sunday. I know it’s coming since I’ll be seeing him Wednesday.



  67.  #67Rori Raye on January 26, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    nash, Welcome, and – either there’s something wrong with him – red flags galore – or you’re some kind of expert at scaring men and pushing them away. Try my Tools – really learn everything you can about how to lean back, Feeling Messages, the 4 Rules, all of it – and the next time he shows up (he will) – if it doesn’t work – end it. In the meantime (and when he shows up, too) Circular Date. Love, Rori



  68.  #68Dan_Brodribb on January 26, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “I think men can sense when a woman is damaged and needs healing. The good guys run from that. They don’t want to be fixing YOU. They can never fix you or fill up your loss.”

    I don’t know how good a guy I am, but I myself have a tendency to be attracted to women in need of healing. And many times I DO want to help them heal or ‘fix them.’

    It usually works out about as well as you’d expect…me frustrated, exhausted, and resentful because I can’t give them what they won’t give themselves. And them frustrated, exhausted and resentful because I always seem to want something from them or can’t accept them as they are.

    I can’t complain too much. I’m responsible for the choices I make and I accept the consequences. And though theres’ been pain, there have been some glorious moments as well. I’m grateful for what those women have taught me about myself and a few of them seem to be better off for having known me as well.

    That said, I’m getting really tired. Maybe it’s time to approach things differently.



  69.  #69Lisa on January 26, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Dan,

    It’s so nice to have a male voice. You sound like a male version of a lot of us, in that you seek out people to “fix” 🙂 Never works, right?

    Sounds like you’ve learned some lessons along the way about yourself, which is what Rori advises us to do. Not the seeking to fix part, but to utilize every interaction to our betterment. So like us women, you become a better man when your agenda does not hinge on fixing us, but becoming a stronger human in your own right.

    Full confession: I find those men who seek to “fix” not to be emanating the male principle I want. I want a man strong within himself, who will love the competent me I bring to the table. I think I speak for many when I say, we want to share and be adored, but not intentionally “healed”. By approaching another human in that way you indict them as “not enough”. No one likes that.

    If I want to be fixed, I’ll go to a shrink.

    We’re all getting tired of what doesn’t work, which is why this is a splendid forum to find out what does.



  70.  #70Katie on January 26, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Trisha

    This sounds similar to my recent heartache and breakup situation. With a man who found it easier to be giving material things rather than really giving of himself and his quality time. Also controlling, very tight about time and work and yes the mask thing you mention figures too. I couldn’t entirely relax around him, couldn’t allow the weaker side of myself to show.

    I used to be driven by guilt but grew beyond it about 5 years ago – so his guilt and control issues had felt like a backwards step for me and I felt uncomfortable, all bottled up and eventually unhappy in it.

    Like you I am learning to just “be” and get into just “loving myself”. I would hate to just end up with ONLY myself that is scarey because it’s possible… I feel fear and sadness when I think about it. Loving myself is a big step for me because I always wanted to feel valued by love coming towards me. I find it hard to shine on my own, but I am learning to do this now. If the way I am shining appeals to a guy then it’s a sign he’s the right guy for me, if that makes sense.



  71.  #71Simply Shannon on January 26, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I’ve had that experience myself. A guy showed up on a first date with flowers and my instant reaction was “Eww. Weirdo.” It totally killed my attraction right from the start. Now with Mr. Fab Kisser, I feel incredibly flattered that he would even consider buying me a necklace. It does feel awkward at first to be on the receiving end. I still struggle with it. I hear myself saying things like “you don’t have to do that” (which translated means “I don’t think I’m really worth it”.) Clearly he disagrees! 😀

    The thing is I AM strongly attracted to this man. My physical attraction to him is off the charts, hence his name Mr. Fab Kisser (he is the best kisser EVER – and I’ve kissed a lot – lol). I really struggle with my physical desires for him. It would almost be easier to cave in and sleep with him but I know I would be hopelessly attached to him if we had sex. I cannot separate sex and love… which is why I don’t know what love really feels like.

    It just feels different this time. What I don’t want to do is push this guy away just because what I’m feeling now doesn’t feel like the chemistry/love I used to feel with other guys. Before I would be madly attracted to (in love with) a man who kept me off balance. Fear and jealousy felt like love to me.

    I totally get what you mean by “value” but even that is relative. My version of “value” has been jaded all these years. The more insecure I felt, the more I valued HIM because my insecurity told me I wasn’t enough and someone better would come along and snatch him up.

    It’s not that other women don’t want him. They do. (I see it everytime we’re together.) I still feel jealous and insecure at times but Mr. Fab Kisser doesn’t want me to feel that way. He reassures me at every turn. I just need to rewire my brain to recognize this as love. I’m finally getting this stuff.

    Thank you Rori!



  72.  #72Katie on January 26, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Trisha

    Also I know what you mean “…YET it hurt to be IN the relationship too!” Out or in it was hurtful to me to the point where I could no longer be authentic in it.



  73.  #73gina on January 26, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Lisa, I appreciate your full disclosure. I agree – when a man is trying to fix me, I sense that he doesn’t feel ready for someone whole and strong himself, and that in “fixing” me, he’s somehow building himself up. Then, i don’t trust him to fix me, because I believe that his strength is ultimately based on my weakness, and my growth would be “his.”



  74.  #74Katie on January 26, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Kristine

    Healing and grieving, breathing, being, learning, growing, grieving again. I have been in and out of this cycle for over 5 months now. And just when I think that I have aced it….yep… round I go again, but there’s a richness in it, and a letting go of baggage that I am better without.

    Shining, yes that is what men want, a woman who can shine all by herself.



  75.  #75Katie on January 26, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Hi Dan

    I have met men who want to fix and improve a woman, though it is usually a woman who sees a man as ‘potential’.

    I think that it is good to feel accepted on all levels by a man. To feel okay about the weaker bits of oneself. To be able to show an ‘under belly’ without defensiveness. Real love includes the acceptance of a partner’s weaknesses and flaws. But this close and intimate interaction is only able to happen if expressed consciously by one of the people involved.



  76.  #76sia on January 26, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    That is interesting, sounds very complex.

    In your first post you say you are afraid of hurting him – that is worrying about him.

    In this one you say you don’t want to push him away – that is worrying about yourself, that you will miss out due to not recognizing a good thing, right?.

    So if you are afraid to sleep with him and get attached – that mean you dont trust him that much, even though you feel good with him???
    Or are you afraid if you get attached, you will lose your Goddess statute and he will be less interested?

    I am now Circular Dating and the guys are not interesting for me that much and for 1 of them I am a Goddess. I am similar to you in that that I get attached after sex immediately…I definitely would’t jump into bed with my circular guy, but if I were attracted as you are, then yes! Cause love and sex is so close for us, then we are not using guys for sex. So the intention is honest and even if the relationship doesn’t evolve, both sides invested something (as the guy who said he loved you) and your guy won’t feel you got a free ride and just took advantage of him.

    I though Fab Kisser was ironic:)



  77.  #77sia on January 26, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    IPUAs look good to me in that that they are taught not to be needy. First they seemed sleazy to me, but many of them joined just to get a specific girl and were told what we are told by you – forget the girl, circular date (different terms), that will change your vibe, then try to get the girl back – by that time you will no longer be unhealthily focused on her, so maybe you will not want her anymore.

    This is exactly what happens to many of your succesful students.

    I had an idea PUA works on every woman. For example, they teach, a date is best planned in more places – pub, comedy club, restaurant – so that the woman feels more connected to the guy, like they went through more experiences together.
    That is common sense, that this works – even if someone is honest and straightforward, why not?

    Or, they teach to use opinion question to approach a woman, instead of usual where are you from, what do you do. What is wrong with that? How does honesty and straightforwardness resist this?

    I think there is no shame in being ‘gamed’ like this.

    I also think were I honest and straightforward, i would not lean back and just call them when I missed them! Which I am not doing anymore, thanks mainly to Turnaround.
    You say – don’t call because it is boy energy plus needy, PUA say, don’t call too much because it seems needy.

    How can I tell a good attentive man from a needy one?? Is it possible I pushed all the good men away because I saw them as needy? Then PUAs are righ, we ARE screwed, and they should keep doing what they are doing – not everyone is lucky enough to come across your work!

    Technical remark: I don’t find the new system of replies very good.

    I used to lurk at this site from time to time and read comments – now I can’t find the new ones because I scroll down, but some new ones are buried up up somewhere as replies. I will post this one both as a reply and between new comments – Is there any way how to keep the new comments at the bottom, and link them to previous posts in some different way?

    than you, sia



  78.  #78sia on January 26, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    PUAs look good to me in that that they are taught not to be needy. First they seemed sleazy to me, but many of them joined just to get a specific girl and were told what we are told by you – forget the girl, circular date (different terms and ehm, methods), that will change your vibe, then try to get the girl back – although by that time you will no longer be unhealthily focused on her, so maybe you will not want her anymore.

    This is exactly what happens to many of your succesful students!

    I had an idea PUA works on every woman. For example, they teach, a date is best planned in more places – pub, comedy club, restaurant – so that the woman feels more connected to the guy, like they went through more experiences together.
    That is common sense, that this works – even if someone is honest and straightforward, why not?

    Or, they teach to use opinion question to approach a woman, instead of usual where are you from, what do you do. What is wrong with that? How does honesty and straightforwardness resist this?

    I think there is no shame in being ‘gamed’ like this.

    I also think were I honest and straightforward, i would not lean back and just call them when I missed them! Which I am not doing anymore, thanks mainly to Turnaround.
    You say – don’t call because it is boy energy plus needy, PUA say, don’t call too much because it seems needy.

    How can I tell a good attentive man from a needy one?? Is it possible I pushed all the good men away because I saw them as needy? Then PUAs are righ, we ARE screwed, and they should keep doing what they are doing – not everyone is lucky enough to come across your work!

    Technical remark: I don’t find the new system of replies very good.

    I used to lurk at this site from time to time and read comments – now I can’t find the new ones because I scroll down, but some new ones are buried up up somewhere as replies. I will post this one both as a reply and between new comments – Is there any way how to keep the new comments at the bottom, and link them to previous posts in some different way?

    than you, sia



  79.  #79Lisa on January 26, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    S. Shannon,

    I don’t mean to imply this one won’t last. I just try and be realistic, b/c that sets my mind free. If I don’t invest so much in any one relationship “going the distance”, I can allow myself to lean back and see what develops.

    I don’t mean to put a mojo on anything 🙂 You’re doing the right thing by trying to access your feelings.



  80.  #80Lisa on January 26, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Gina says,

    “when a man is trying to fix me, I sense that he doesn’t feel ready for someone whole and strong himself, and that in “fixing” me, he’s somehow building himself up.”

    That’s exactly it! That is what I used to do with men, and I’m sure they felt the same way. I was trying to fix ME via HIM. Wow, what a lot of manipulation. I’m just going the direct route now. What a freer place to be, to just let him be. In truth, I don’t love someone fully if I’m trying to change them into something else.

    That was totally it: I wasn’t focusing my energy where it should be (with me), therefore sought to find/fix fault in him. Oh, and since that was my mission, I did manage to find the needy/deficient ones. The universe delivers on intention, for sure.

    I still don’t know how to liberate my energies for myself, so accustomed am I to running on only a very small portion of energy for me. This is my project. Any advice is welcome.



  81.  #81gina on January 26, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    I’m almost embarrassed to admit that I just watched another episode. okay..3 episodes. And I’m wondering about this whole “feminine energy” thing. Cause Vienna seems very aggressive to me. I guess I see girly, but also aggressive. and clingy too. That new yorker chick seemed pretty girly on her date. I felt curious about the women he said he didn’t feel the connection “deepening” with. Why didn’t it? Is it cause the girls aren’t into him enough? Was it chemistry? Was it a lack of feeling messages??



  82.  #82Daria on January 26, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    thats the final straw Gina! Im watching this tonite

    =)



  83.  #83Daria on January 26, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    what to do when i feel jealous:

    debbie, you can’t stop it. Here’s what you do. 1. Get a big sense of humor, so when this happens, you instinctively smile at your man, lean back, and feel sexy. 2. Get in touch with your jealousy and anger, and let it further enhance your vibe by not trying to sit on it. You don’t have to speak it. Women who come up to him and give him their numbers are not going to get anywhere with him – especially not as you’re standing there, your hand gently in the crook of his arm or in his back pocket while you’re leaning back, being totally serene and confident. Stay close to him so he can feel your energy, but lean back. Once you do this, you’ll see he’ll be even more turned on to you. It’s like the estrogen from the other women just gets transferred to you – it’s a good thing. Thank these women (not directly and verbally – but with your mind and body language) for increasing his love for you. Love, Rori

    I feel a lil confused about how getting in touch with my anger and jealousy would work.. I mean if i was getting in touch with them wouldnt i FEEL: them and then say i feel angry? or i feel jealous?



  84.  #84gina on January 26, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    the whole thing is giving me this sense of urgency about creating connection. Cause from here, it looks like women who seemed (to me) more decent than the ones he developed feelings for, went home because they didn’t speak to his heart. Is this real? Or is it just cause of the scenario? It seems pretty real, cause there have been times when I took it for granted that I could be “safe” and defensive on a date with a man I was attracted to, and was shocked when I didn’t hear from him anymore.



  85.  #85gina on January 26, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Yeah…I’m confused. when he was with Ms.Masculine (aka “Allie”) and she was telling him how much she liked him, and he was like “Really!?” and he got all giddy and then said “Okay, keep going…!” I thought that was very eww but the two of them seemed to be enjoying it. but she seems all about “winning” and looks super manly to me. And the women he sent home seemed to be the most feminine and leaned back…and they got rejected. But maybe they were a little unavailable? I’m curious to know if Rori is still impressed with his masculine progression after seeing episode 4 (the one after the bungee jump)…



  86.  #86gina on January 26, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    okay…whoa…wait. i was being too hard on myself by saying I could relate to that teasin’ chick. I just watched the episode where she teased him over fireworks, and i don’t do that. Just for the record.



  87.  #87gina on January 26, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    but now, i don’t know if I believe that he was ever attracted to her “drama” – it just seems like he thought she was someone with values, and it was just a matter of time before he saw her true game playing colors.



  88.  #88Linmayu on January 26, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    WOW it’s been a long time, and the blog looks great! It feels so sexy with all your lovely pictures. 😀

    I’ve been on a roller coaster and am still on it, but I discovered something about myself that I want to share with you all. I couldn’t see this for a long time, but I have found that I am SO toxically attracted to feminine energy men, and so toxically ADDICTED to the whole drama of longing for someone “unattainable” because it feels SAFE when they don’t love me back. The ONLY thing that keeps me truly safe and sane is knowing that I have the power to give myself LIMITLESS love so why the hell would I look for it from a man who isn’t even attempting to do the job?

    So, a poem for you all, to celebrate this occasion of self-discovery:

    the other man

    You were my opium, your gentle touch
    sending waves of adrenaline
    through all my veins,
    lighting my face with a smile,
    heating my body with fire.

    But a drug does not choose who will consume it.
    And I longed deep within to be chosen.
    And now a man within my heart has chosen me.

    True, he has neither skin nor bones nor any substance I can touch.
    True, he has no resonant voice to vibrate my cold heart back to life.
    But he speaks to me through the rising of the sun.
    He touches me through the invisible current of cosmic energy.
    He loves me through a vision that only I can see.

    I still love you, and nothing is your fault,
    but never again
    will I cherish your illicit pleasures
    deep within my heart and body
    as though loving an inert substance were the best I could hope for.



  89.  #89Daria on January 26, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Linmayu!!!

    yayyyy!!!!!



  90.  #90gina on January 26, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    wowsers Linmayu – that was so beautiful I got goosebumps!



  91.  #91Daria on January 26, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    hey… so i leaned back with the guy who came to see me last week.. that i felt kina icky with but i also liked.

    i totally thought he didnt like me, he didnt even call me.

    but now hes BACK totally pursuing me online. he wants to take me on an hot air balloon ride

    and i said i was free on friday, but now im not

    so hes assuming i have a date and was askkiing me about it
    i said i dont want to talkt about it

    i had to say that several times
    now he says

    man i wanna see you soon
    its like this date you have on friday has just got me ready to see you!



  92.  #92Daria on January 27, 2010 at 12:55 am

    i just saw the bungie scene
    !
    wow
    1
    she did get strong for him

    but it seemed kinda… alrgith

    liek the strong woman behind the man thing…

    cool

    i dont want to get confused with this idea



  93.  #93Felicity on January 27, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Firstly thanks..you don’t know me but I wanted to say thanks, I read your words and they have helped me.. so wanted to say thanks.. I have so much grief and yet can’t cry as I just don’t feel like it. I am getting there with the grief..one does not deserve it and the other well there is just too much loss but little by little I suppose and have made some big steps so feel very proud of my efforts and anyway just wanted to say thanks..



  94.  #94Linda on January 27, 2010 at 4:10 am

    Kristine. You are right on! I have been sharing this message about grief for years. Sinking into it and feeling it is the only way to heal. Grief knows no bounds. It comes to us all on many levels. Grief is not about death (which is mostly associated in our minds) but it is about loss. We all loose things that we desire or had. You fill in the blank.

    Avoiding grief at all costs seems to be ingrained in us. Avoiding pain in our lives, no matter what the subject is natural. Learning to embrace loss is an acquired skill. I have found that thinking about going thru something is often harder than actually doing it. Our imaginations are often worse than reality….. life throws all kinds of things at us. Experiencing difficulties TEACH us what we want and dont want.

    Being afraid to loose something or someone, especially when the whole thing is not meeting our needs seems crazy doesnt it. Yet we do it all the time. When in that mode I realized that I was the one that was loosing.

    What a healthy place you are in. I applaude you and am encouraged by your strength and words. Thanks for sharing.

    Linda



  95.  #95Linda on January 27, 2010 at 5:44 am

    Kristine… I have lived this scenerio. Actually the man that I am with right now did the very same thing to me that you are describing here.

    Last year (in Feb) I met S…online. We hit it off. There was chemistry, attraction, we shared the same faith and ideals….we dated but within a short time he said I was NOT the ONE for him. He could not give it “all” with me. He would be distant, break it off… but then contact me again, say he wanted a relationship and then distance himself again! I was greatly perplexed with the cycle of behavior. I had never encountered anything like this in my life.

    I learned what I wanted and didnt thru this. I used the tools that I learned here. Circular dated, I focused on myself etc. I leaned back, released the whole thing and moved on with my life. But…I will say, in the back of my heart I had this knowing that we would be together someday. NOTHING on the outside supported this feeling but it was still there.

    I would get periodic email or text, sometimes I responded, sometimes I didn’t. One day I had had enough. I asked him.. “why are you contacting me, you have made it very clear that I am not who you want”? He indicated that he felt we were friends and that there were things between us that were good and he did not want to end any kind of relationship that was good on any level. HMMMMM

    Friends?… I certainly did NOT feel that way. I responded with a email that was loaded with how I felt. I did not leave a thing unsaid. I covered the gammet and it felt cleansing. I had no fear or concern about him or how he felt, if I would gain or loose him or anything with him. I did not blame, point fingers, I simply shared, without anger or hope that I would create any room for anything between us. His response was cold and actually could have been hurtful if I cared, which I didn’t. 5 weeks passed and I got a text out of the blue. “What cha doin”?… I just shook my head, and chuckled. I did not respond. I was Christmas shopping and bout a week later, I decided to respond, just for the heck of it! That was mid December. He and I saw each other for the first time since August on Christmas Eve and have been together ever since.

    There is a huge shift in him, his energy toward me is rowing (not all the time).. but when he isnt rowing I dont pick up the oars I am content at this point to enjoy sitting still or the glide.

    I share this not to move you from your position. Follow your heart, do what feels good, protective and right for you. After the bad year I had with this guy, I would have never bet on anything like what is between us now happening but it is. I am being careful to remain focused properly and keep things real, not assume what another motive or thoughts or feelings are. That is presumptuous on my part and gets in the way of reality just like imaginary realtionships can too.

    Linda

    Linda



  96.  #96Linda on January 27, 2010 at 5:51 am

    Daria. I love your light bulb moment. Freeing isn’t it?

    You go girl.

    Linda



  97.  #97nash on January 27, 2010 at 6:09 am

    Thank you so much for the support Rori! Wether it’s him with his own personal issues, me, or us both I will learn all your tools and apply them. Love, Nash



  98.  #98DocK on January 27, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Linmayu – I was thinking about you yesterday!!



  99.  #99DocK on January 27, 2010 at 7:38 am

    Hi Dan

    I remember many of your comments and I have felt good reading what you have expressed in the past. That is why I am being “male” and analytical and saying that the words “fix” doesn’t resonate with what I have read. Maybe “taking care of” is more of what I would envision you trying to do – but, of course, I don’t really know you, so that could be me projecting.

    But, debating wordsmithing doesn’t change what you have expressed with decisions, pain and outcomes you have experienced.

    I have experienced some of what you have described with men. Because of some things I experienced in my life (the other day I was talking with friends describing this and it sounded like a lifetime channel movie LOL), I would attract guys that felt like I needed to be taken care of or healed or whatever but than they would finally catch on to the part where I had transformed my life on my own and didn’t need that. They seemed disappointed. Like you, however, I take responsibility for what I attract and more authentically presenting the combination of vulnerability and strength that I think is finally more balanced within me.



  100.  #100tinque on January 27, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Dan – there are also women who are already working to release stuff that doesn’t serve them anymore thus opening themselves even more, to themselves, to a man. It is possible to grow a relationship through this.
    If a man, usually one who is very sensitive, can support a woman in this way, quietly from the sidelines yet making himself available when she asks for it or needs it, something very beautiful can evolve.
    This kind of man will likely quietly grow and expand himself right along with her, not because he is inspired to but because it’s inevitable, IF there is love there which also will grow and expand.
    The thing is people such as these are not readily found, but it is possible.
    I am one of those women. K is one of those men.
    xxoo



  101.  #101tinque on January 27, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Linmayu – missed you. beautiful poem. thank you. 🙂
    xxoo



  102.  #102Tracy on January 27, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Linmayu………….Yay…so glad to hear from u again….
    Totally love your poem…..it spoke right through to my heart….I must admit that i feel the same way about myself…with regards to men….thanks for expressing it in a lovely poem…hugs!



  103.  #103Nancy on January 27, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I’m feeling a lot of confusion and pain. Gave speech 3 weeks ago. Man gets pissed and breaks off contact. I struggle, decide to focus on me. As a part of that I book a trip to Maui to see the whales. Flew here yesterday, still having heard nothing from him. I finally have a smile on my face. I think about posting something on facebook about my trip and wonder how he’ll react. The trip isn’t a strategy. It’s only about taking care of me and it has really helped me to shift my vibe. I decide to post that I’m at the airport and feeling excited. Once I arrived and saw my first whale I excitedly post about it.
    Within an hour he has removed from his friends list, along with my mom and a good girlfriend of mine he’s been grinds with. I know it sounds juvenile. Facebook is absolutely no substitute for contact/reltionship, but this feels like a very public announcement on his part that we are done. His FB page has always been about us. So, no call, no “I can’t make you happy or jeany to end it, just dead air and now this announcement. I feel incredibly frustated and very, very sad.



  104.  #104Nancy on January 27, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Ah the joys of typing on my iPhone keybaord. The good girlfriend is someone he has also been friends with, not grinds with and jeany end it is really I need to end it.



  105.  #105Nancy on January 27, 2010 at 10:27 am

    I also feel glad that I’m no longer waiting around for something that was apparently never going to happen.



  106.  #106DocK on January 27, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Nancy – I feel good about your trip – it sounds amazing and wonderful – and I feel happy you did this for yourself.

    As for the guy, his behavior makes me feel bad – it seems juvenile, yes, but we are all human and some guys/people don’t know how to handle stuff and just shut down, run away, behave in ways that feel “hostile” (not always as physical threat but just emotionally so).

    You gave the speech – that’s all you can do. It is something that comes from the heart and the guy either steps up or goes away but the key is, the speech wasn’t about him anyway – it is about you and clarity within yourself of what you want and will and will not except. You already know this – you can only control yourself – guys do what they do when they get the speech (been there myself) and if a guy steps up and he’s the one we want, cool, if he doesn’t, he is making that space for you/us/me to have what we want and are ready for.

    It doesn’t mean that we don’t feel shaky, hurt, confused, frustrated, angry, sad, pissed off or whatever – we do – but you are taking care of yourself to get what you are truly desiring in a relationship – and that, feels fantastic.



  107.  #107DocK on January 27, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Another Freudian slip – “accept” – not “except” but it’s funny because it is what we also do sometimes, make “exceptions” for behavior – well, I have.



  108.  #108sia on January 27, 2010 at 10:57 am

    This i don’t understand either. And it disn’t happen just once. I was someone’s friend, then lover, and when they decide to end it, they just disappear. Sometimes even lie, saying, yes I will come there/call/write, of course I will!! Then when I believe it and nothing happens I feel disrespected.
    Rori says just forget and move on. But I would like to understand how someone close turns into a rude stranger. And they were nice people before, caring and unselfish, one of them volunteered taking care of disabled children – no way I was that mistaken about him.
    Is it possible men don’t see this as too cruel?



  109.  #109Nancy on January 27, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Thanks, dock, your support feels so good. And sia I like your question. I’ll check in again later. Right now I’ve got some humpback whales and gorgeous beaches to attend to!



  110.  #110nash on January 27, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Rori hi! Its me again. Thank you for the quick tools.. they have helped me see a broader picture of the situation. Shortly I will buy the DVD’s 🙂
    I have a huge concern. Since you are already a bit familiar with my situation; His birthday is coming up (Feb. 23rd), what do you think would be correct for me to do or what should I do?? Thank you ,
    Nash <3



  111.  #111Flipper on January 27, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Beautiful. And so lovely to hear from you, though I don’t feel surprised. I was wondering about you, too, just this week !



  112.  #112Linmayu on January 27, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Wow, thank you all for the kind thoughts and compliments. 🙂 The poem came from a moment of revelation that I had during yoga class a few nights ago. It felt like someone just turned the lights on over my head. I knew I’d had unhappiness in relationships all my life, but never before had I seen so clearly how I constantly keep bringing it on myself.

    Somehow long ago I managed to convince myself that a man is the prize, and that I’m not worth anything unless a man says I am. And I get all hooked into completely imaginary relationships (as in where the guy LITERALLY doesn’t know I exist) and I use men’s attention like drugs to make myself feel good momentarily.

    My yoga instructors keep telling me the same thing Rori says, “you have to give love to yourself.” But I never “got” that, I never knew what it meant, until I actually saw and felt the presence of the “man” who lives inside of me and ALREADY loves me just because I exist!

    It is so clear now. Trying to win a man just isn’t where it’s at. Loving myself, loving other women, and becoming unattainable to almost all men–that is where I’m finding my happiness. Just 2 minutes ago I had a male friend pursuing me all over facebook, and it felt good (and scary), but I know he will never overtake me!

    I hope all women can come to this place of perfect peace in their relationships–whether you have a man or not–because this is where happiness is.



  113.  #113Linmayu on January 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Sia, I believe men view relationships very differently than we do. As women we have this internal desire for a loving relationship with a man, and I don’t think most men have that desire in such a strong form. They’ll take a relationship IF it makes them feel good, and many of the more toxic ones really do view us simply as a means to that end, as a commodity product. They don’t feel they owe us courtesy and respect any more than they would owe courtesy and respect to an old car they’re trading in.

    Again, I’m NOT talking about all men, but about the BAD ones that we too often come across.

    But most men–even the good ones!–can’t even fathom why this kind of treatment hurts us so much, because no woman has ever told them so in a way they can hear.

    I really believe that women, communicating what we feel, simply, from our stronger feminine side, can literally change the face of the earth. We are that powerful. I feel that powerful. But it’s going to be excruciatingly slow and require a critical mass of womankind to do it before the men really begin to wake up. I feel overwhelmed.



  114.  #114Daria on January 27, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    awww

    here i am with support for you

    i dont want to feel overwhelmed!

    i am a big ball of electric energy!!!



  115.  #115Linmayu on January 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    I feel amused! I want to play with Daria and her electric energy. <3



  116.  #116Rori Raye on January 27, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Nash – gifts are not my strong point (figures – since “Gifts” is my husband’s #1 “love language”) Any discussion out there? Love, Rori



  117.  #117tinque on January 28, 2010 at 7:31 am

    From what I’ve read from your story Nash, definitely NO gift. I couldn’t call what you have together a relationship. Unless you two are a couple and doing well, gifting a man feels inappropriate.
    xxoo



  118.  #118laughing goddess on January 28, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I feel scared to say this because I don’t want to be negative but…

    I do not feel inspired to post when I read the blog anymore because I feel confused by the new layout. I feel frustrated that I have to search for new posts.

    I am trying to be open minded but my honest feeling is that I don’t feel nearly as inspired to read the comments as I used to. I feel sad about that. 🙁



  119.  #119Daria on January 28, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Rori – I feel confused… if Gifts is his number one love language, how does it figure that its not your strong point?

    and how would a woman express her femininty to a man whos number one love language is gifts?



  120.  #120Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Oooo, Daria – good question. Whoever said my husband and I were well-suited? We’re not, in a lot of little ways. We’re not even suited in Match-Matrix (which I like very much) communication ways. Doesn’t matter. He’s nutty for me, always has been, is smart, willing to talk, committed…all the crucial stuff that makes Intimacy possible. So – I have to learn how to give gifts. Not my strong point. So I have to pay attention when he mentions something he wants. I have to think about giving him actual things when I appreciate him, on birthdays (big for him, and I couldn’t care less…), and give him verbal gifts, too. My love language is Acts of Service – and so he DOES things for me. We took the test together (that was a fun thing to do) – I talk about this a bit with my March interviewee, Alanna Levenson (terrific, by the way) – and so he stepped up and started DOING STUFF for me – instead of giving ME gifts, which is practically meaningless to me. If anything, I take it for granted now, so I have to stay connected that my love language is not his love language, and I have to learn. Everything goes both ways. I make sure it’s an appropriate occasion – I’m not showering him with ANYTHING (he very clearly does not like being showered with anything – but he likes my attention when he asks for it, and he does that squarely so I know). Left to my own devices, I’d just hand out gift cards all the time to anyone. It’s hard work for me to figure out actual gifts and take the time to make them good. They’ve been everything from private tennis lessons with the teacher who’s clinic he goes to, to stuff for his music array, to, when I’m stuck, gift cards for music – it’s hard to gift a man you live with. For me, anyway. Especially now, when no one wants to spend money frivolously or on something he doesn’t need or want. Perhaps you all have some ideas for us all to use that fit with the feminine principle but speak the love language —Oh…by the way…gifts is only one of 5 love languages, so make sure it’s his top one before you go there (I think it’s fairly rare for a man)…Love, Rori



  121.  #121Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Laughing goddess, thank you so much – anyone else feel this way – it’s a very quick fix to go back…? Rori



  122.  #122Tina on January 28, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Me too, I was getting used to it though hehe. “The reply to comments” section runs out of “Reply To This Comment”. I was going to reply to the love language post you made Rori but seems I cant do it. Lol at “who ever said we were well suited” comment. Now I have to go find out what my Love Language is, bbl.



  123.  #123Daria on January 28, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    i was gonna reply too

    i will later gotta run

    my love language is Words of Appreciation

    i fuckin love it

    my mom’s is Quality Time and I’ve been making dates with her and its going GREAT!



  124.  #124Tina on January 28, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Mine is Receiving Gifts- go figure. Tied at #2 is Physical touch and Quality time. Words of Affirmation and Acts of Service are tied at 4 -5. I like Acts of Service but while I watch and chat lol. Words of Affirmation is great, if were doing something together 🙂



  125.  #125Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I agree with LG. It feels awkward to read the blog stream. I can only keep up with posts by reading them as they come in through my email. And then I feel lost when I try to find that person’s comment because it could be anywhere. It feels good to be able to reply to an individual but the flow feels weird to me.



  126.  #126Simply Shannon on January 28, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    My primary love language is Physical Touch with my secondary being Words of Affirmation.



  127.  #127Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Okay – I’m going to flip the switch now and go back to the old way…let’s leave it at that for now…To those of you who are regular posters here…I’m here for you in every way with my work, as I am with every woman, and I want to make sure you’re inspired to keep the flow of these comments coming – they’re totally mesmerizing and you are amazing. Love, Rori



  128.  #128Lori on January 28, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    How do you figure out your language of love?



  129.  #129Rori Raye on January 28, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Just google love languages (it’s Gary Chapman, I think, and there’s a short quiz you can take…) Rori



  130.  #130DocK on January 29, 2010 at 7:23 am

    I feel so interested about the buying presents thing. I LOVE LOVE LOVE to buy presents! I wonder why? Maybe it is because of how difficult things were for us financially when I was growing up. I needed (not even wanted) so many things. When you are a little girl and only have a pair of flip flops in the summer and primarily walk around barefoot, or one pair of pants you wear over and over again, or get one present for Christmas and yet you are so delighted over it….

    I just know that I feel so much pleasure thinking of the person and what s/he might like and trying to find it. I have a friend that is very difficult to buy for in that she is quite well off (her husband got her a jaguar for her b’day one year) and yet I feel excited each time I’m shopping for her. She has remarked over and over – where do you find these things and how do you come up with them? The last present I got for her wasn’t even a thing – it was the Remembering Site

    http://www.therememberingsite.org/

    where you write your life story/bio. You can even choose to share pages with others. It isn’t even very expensive. She liked it so much she said she is getting it for her mother.

    So, for me, it isn’t about the amount of money, I just enjoy giving in that way. Maybe, not being a mommy like so many of you, I’m just not that good at giving in a service kind of way (although I know I help friends or causes at times but not my specialty). This woman I was speaking of, she helped me so much when I was in grad school and feeling destitute (she would give me clothes and shoes and stuff – paid me to house sit for her in her beautiful home – I wrote my dissertation staying there, clicking on the fireplace and spreading books and notes out on the floor) – it just felt so good when I started earning decent money to give back. She doesn’t expect it or need it – in a way it’s selfish – it makes ME feel good!



  131.  #131dorothea on January 31, 2010 at 11:03 am

    This talk of love languages has me feeling confused about something. One of my guys is always saying when he calls me that he likes spending time with me, he thinks I’m great, he wants to kiss me, he thinks I’m sexy…all sorts of words of affirmation.

    All I want to do is say thank you or giggle and bask in it or say “ohhh really” teasingly. I don’t really say anything back. I feel a little guilty though, like I should be reciprocating. I tend to shut down during moments like this, but it seems like his way of showing love is words. Does this mean I should be saying “oh I think you’re sexy too” and stuff like that. That is NOT my style. And furthermore, I feel attracted to him but I don’t feel the slightest bit compelled to tell him how “sexy” he is because I’m not sure if that’s what I even feel anyway.

    in other news, he says he is going to take me to mexico, which makes me feel very weird because, well, I don’t believe him. And if he doesn’t follow through I will be PISSED.



  132.  #132Daria on January 31, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Dorothea –

    I personally practice RECEIVING compliments and saying ohhh, and thank you… , that feels so good to hear, it feels good to hear that you think that, etc.

    I also practice complimenting men when I notice something nice about them, on my own, rather than as a Return (ie almost a conversation filler)



  133.  #133dorothea on January 31, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I feel scared a man will ask “do you think i’m sexy?” in response.

    for some reason i feel grossed out by this. is it just me?



  134.  #134Lisa on January 31, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Dorothea,

    Depends on the man, depends on me.

    If he’s a bloomin’ narcissist, well, yeah! If he’s just fishing, and maybe I’m a little reticent, and maybe he’s gone out of his way to be fetching, then it seems o.k. I’d give it with a nod and a wink!



  135.  #135dorothea on January 31, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Hehe i’ll nod and wink (this is when we talk on the phone) and it’ll be all silent and he’ll be like “hello why are you quiet now?” and i’ll say “just nodding and winking.”

    loooooooooooool



  136.  #136Turtle Girl on February 1, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Dorothea-
    Anytime a man asks me any kind of direct “Do you think I am…….fill in blank….. question-it makes me uncomfortable. It puts you on the spot, and what do you say really? It’s like a female version of “Do I look fat in these pants?” No way for the poor fella to get out alive…….

    My ex toxic narcissist man asked me after the first time we had sex—-“Well, baby how was it? Did you enjoy having sex with me?”

    *Ahem* uh, er, um, sure I ah love sex…..

    No, baby-did you enjoy it WITH ME?

    Uh, yeah, Sure I did……………

    Shit- I was trapped. The fact was he wasn’t all that mind blowing….it was adequate. Nothing more.
    Not the best ever. He only ever wanted it doggy style because he saw me as an object, never wanted to look into my eyes where intimacy lies….could not do it. It was very strange, cold feeling-detached-like all narcissists are.



  137.  #137Daria on February 1, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    HI Turtle Girl…

    here I am bringing this (brought it up somewhere else yesterday) up again…

    I feel a lot of love for you! And i feel concerned about all this talk about your narcissist man and what he couldnt do.

    I am guessing you feel really angry and horrified and upset.

    I would feel so good to hear you talk about your feelings.

    Hearing you talk about how your ex sux because he’s a narcissist and he couldn’t do this I feel disappointed because I see it as holding you back. Blaming and judging as Rori has said means we are also blaming and judging ourselves, and I don’t want that for you.

    And I don’t want that for me. I feel disconnected and judgemental reading that stuff. I also feel gross and horrified.

    I would love to see you get in touch with your RAGE rather than blame labeling and judging.



  138.  #138Lisa on February 1, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Turtle Girl,

    Yes, same-same here. Only once he said, “I love you,” to the back of my head. I asked if he could say it to my face, and he could not.

    So, we are emerging from being objectified — a very awful thing, esp. considering I never went through a Barbie phase when young men usually objectify their catches. So I am learning this unsavory behavior which I will now reject at a later age. It is rather jarring, yes?

    Real, secure people love to make eye contact. Bonding feels good and safe. As Rori has challenged us to consider, do we feel safe going deep and being committed?

    For myself, honestly, probably not. I was very guarded because I knew what I had — someone who reliably let me down. Who would trust such a one? All my energy spent tilting at windmills, because I was taught to fix and help people. Because so many people were off-kilter in my own family.

    Being with a man who wants it, and being able to receive that — that is one goal. So I am in the process of diving my intentions — “What is it I want”?! God, I hardly know. It has been enough for so long just to be in a relationship of no particular shape or size.

    Now I am confronting such a big idea: What is it I shall intend, and with whom?



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