The Case Against Buying Christmas Presents

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Here’s a guest post written by Leo Babauta. I’ve always wanted to post something from him (you can find his stuff at – and this seemed SO controversial I thought it would be really provocative.

Okay – I’ve thought about this every year – but the problem is always OTHER PEOPLE: what they think, how they’ll react…and I thought it was a good place for us to talk about doing what you want to do – and how to manage this when other people have EXPECTATIONS around us. This is huge when we’re talking about our parents – and then gets huger when we’re talking about a man we just met or one we’ve been living with for years.

Gifts and gift-giving are loaded with emotional triggers:

I love Christmas. I love the snow-themed everything, even when I was living on tropical Guam, and Santa and elves and reindeer and snowmen and candy canes. Yes, I even love the non-stop playing of Christmas music for two months.

Most of all, I love getting together with my family — eating Christmas cookies, singing Christmas carols together, gossiping and laughing at each other. It’s tremendous fun.

I don’t love Christmas shopping, or the overconsumption, frenzied malls, consumer debt, environmental waste, wasted time wrapping, and over-accumulation of needless stuff that goes with it.

Bah humbug! I love Christmas, but the shopping has got to go. Here’s why. Warning: This will be a rant of near-epic proportions.

1. The focus is on buying, not on sharing. I love the idea of giving to people you love, but that idea has been twisted. Now people go out in a mad rush to shop, like ravenous vampires feasting on new blood. We shop for a month, rip apart the packaging one morning, and then forget about it the next day. Is this about giving, or buying?

2. Giving is great, but buying is not the solution. Again, I’m in love with giving … but do we need to buy to give? We seem to think that buying is the solution to any problem, but that has lead to a society that is deeply in debt and piled high with needless stuff. We can find other ways to give: bake cookies, wash someone’s car, babysit so they can go on a date night, create a photo album, be there when they need help moving.

3. The waste, oh the waste. Let’s start with packaging: the packaging for every toy is double the volume of the toy itself. >From cardboard to plastic to metal twist-ties, it’s ridiculous. Then every item we buy must be brought home in bags. We often put everything in boxes. Then we buy wrapping paper and wrap it all up. All of this gets thrown away on Christmas day. Finally, there’s the gift itself — people get so much stuff they can’t possibly treasure everything. So it goes into the closet to be forgotten.

4. The sorrowful debt. Most people spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on gifts and wrapping. Not to mention all the money spent on gas, driving to different shopping places, and the money spent on fattening food at mall food courts. This goes on credit cards (and around our waistlines), and we then must pay for this — with high interest — during the year. Even if you don’t get into debt, you’re spending money earned from long hours of hard work — is this really how you want to spend your life, paying for needless stuff so corporations can get rich?

5. The horrendous, insipid, seizure-inducing advertising. I can’t stand advertising, and it only gets worse on Christmas. The ads pound on you relentlessly until you give in — and it works. That’s been proven — those ads are getting you to buy more, to want more, to lay down the credit card. I don’t watch TV, read newspapers or magazines, or allow ads in my browser so that I don’t have to be subjected to this.

6. The fuel. If you drive all over the place to shop, you’re using lots of fuel. Even if you just order online, think of the fuel it takes to deliver these products (overnight!) to your home. And the fuel used to create the products, to get the raw materials to the factories, to cut down the raw materials, to ship the finished product to the stores or warehouses from around the world (most likely from China), not to mention all the fuel used to create and ship the packaging. It’s a few million metric craploads of fuel, wasted for giving some presents that will be forgotten.

7. There are still hungry people in the world. In the frenzy that is Christmas shopping, we spend ridiculous amounts of money that is pure waste. In other countries, people are struggling just to eat, or get medicine, or find shelter, or get clean drinking water. We spend so much in a show of consumerist greed, when that money could go to feed a few dozen families. If you have money to waste, consider donating it to an organization that is helping these types of families. I know this sounds preachy, but really, this kind of reminder is necessary in times like these.

8. The neverending clutter. What happens to all the gifts? They go on our shelves, in our closets, on the floor. We already have so much clutter — do we need more? We already have problems figuring out what to do with everything we own. Why do we want to clutter our homes even more? Why do we want to force clutter on our loved ones, oblige them to find a spot in their already cluttered homes for this gift we’ve given them, so they won’t offend us when we come to visit? Is this obligation really a gift?


Q: But what about the kids?
A: Kids love getting presents (I have six kids — I should know!). I sure did when I was a kid. Are we to rob them of this? It’s a difficult question, but another side of the equation to consider is what we are teaching the kids. They don’t just participate in the opening of presents — they see all the shopping too. They are being taught to shop, and to value material goods over anything else. Imagine their lives when they’re grown — a life of shopping and debt and waste, because that’s what’s important, right? So for the joy of opening a few presents for a couple hours on Christmas day, we’re imparting on them consumerist values that will last them a lifetime.

I think, instead, this can be a great opportunity to have an open discussion with kids about buying and spending and debt. Did you receive this kind of education when you were a kid? Would you have been better off if you had? This is also a great opportunity to teach kids about giving to others, about volunteering and helping the less fortunate, about finding other ways to spend time with loved ones that don’t require shopping. My kids do want presents — but I don’t want them to think that’s what Christmas is all about. We’ve been having this discussion and we will continue to this month.

Q: But what about family?
A: Family, believe it or not, will survive without a few presents from us. They can continue to shop and give presents, but you can simply tell them that you don’t want to participate this year. Send them a link to this article to explain why.

This is also a great opportunity (you see how I love turning problems into opportunities?) to create new traditions with your family — go caroling, string popcorn for the tree, make Christmas cookies, bake pies, play football outside, create Christmas scrapbooks, volunteer.

Q: But I love giving presents!
A: Sure, who doesn’t? And you might also love shopping. Shopping, for many people, is a pleasure like no other. This can be a problem, in my mind: you might be using shopping to give you temporary happiness, to fill a hole in your life, to make you happy when you’re depressed or stressed or lonely. I’m not saying you are, but many people do, and it’s good to take a look at these things. Richer happiness can be found in simpler things that don’t involve spending: being with loved ones, creating, reading, getting outside and doing something active.

Even if you aren’t addicted to shopping, you might just love giving presents. And that’s OK — but you might consider giving more meaningful presents that don’t require lots of shopping. Creating a photo album or scrapbook for someone takes time and thought, while laying down a credit card at Macy’s doesn’t.

Q: How do you convince a spouse who equates lavish gifts with love & appreciation?
A: This definitely isn’t easy. It’s an important discussion to have, however. You’ll need to do it without accusations, without resentment, without making the other person feel he’s under attack. Bring it up as an ongoing discussion about things you’re thinking about — maybe even point to this post as a starting point.

This is such an important discussion because so many couples get badly into debt for this reason — one partner has different values about material goods, shopping, debt, gifts, and so on, and the other partner hates to fight about it so doesn’t talk about it. Financial issues are also a big reason couples split up. So finding a healthy way to talk about values, about financial goals, about how you want to live your lives, is so crucial. Do it gently, with compassion, as a way to live together as a team rather than two people struggling against each other.

A good way to get started is to write a blog post or a letter to your spouse about your feelings — again, without being attacking. You might explain why you’re not into giving presents, that you still love your spouse but want to show it in non-consumerist ways, that there are other traditions the two of you could start together to share your love.

Alternatives to buying

There are so many good ideas, but a few:

  • § Do other things with family, such as caroling, baking, watching It’s a Wonderful Life, playing football outside.
  • § Volunteer as a family at a homeless shelter.
  • § Ask people to donate to your favorite charity in lieu of gifts.
  • § Make meaningful gifts.
  • § Do a gift swap where you put a valued possession (that you already own) into the swap.
  • § Bake gifts.
  • § Have an experience instead of giving material goods: do something fun together, go to the beach or a lake.
  • § Find hope. Christmas has so much potential to be about so much more than buying — it can be a season of hope, renewal, loved ones, inspiration, contemplation. Talk to your family about this — how can we find ways to be hopeful, thankful, cooperative? How can we be more present instead of worried about getting presents?
  • § Get stuff at Goodwill. It’s recycled, and the money helps a good cause.

Let me know if you’ve ever done, or are planning to do something controversial or “different” for Christmas this year….

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on December 10, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Thanks for this post. I really needed it. My love choice is quality time and touch so giving and receiving gifts does not hold so much value for me. As such I have problems dealing with friends who disappear during this time because they feel obligated when they receive gifts.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on December 10, 2010 at 8:36 am

    I particularly like the suggesting about how to deal with it with the kids. I have struggled with that over the years because my daughter loves to spend. I will definitely use this suggestion.

  3.  #3Femininewoman on December 10, 2010 at 8:38 am


    Thanks for the suggestion about discussing it with a partner. I don’t think it will be easy for me but it is a start.

  4.  #4tinque on December 10, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Years ago I got off of the Christmas gift giving, card writing treadmill, and it feels really good. Yes I felt guilty for awhile but not for long.

    I only exchange gifts with K.

    As for cards, my mother is the only one who gets one because she expects it, and to disappoint her at her age…it makes her happy in a strange way, so…

    And my credit card remains happy at zero or mostly so, and that makes good and feel safer.

    And yet I too love Christmas. I love the lights on people’s houses and the displays in shop windows, the music (even Nutcracker, despite all the shows) and the baked goods, stollen and lebkuchen and marzipan and buche de noel (though it’s been awhile since I’ve had this one) and being with family when it’s possible, even my mother.


  5.  #5Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Well ladies-I was gonna post this in the other thread but it was just so long so here we go-update on the tale of CD man who I slapped, he left my house, I leaned back and after one month he emailed me. I never responded to the email and that was ten days ago.

    Well, lo and behold I was thinking about him last night yet again, and up pops another email.

    Here is what he said:

    “I was hit a lot as a young person- reason didn’t seem to play a part-
    I wake every day- and you dominate my mind- its so compicated…emotion, feelings, honesty.
    TG-You are amazing…I wish I would have listened to you that night…
    ……I love you- and it doesn’t matter how you feel about me..I have no hard feelings.”

    Wow……Now I REALLY don’t know what to say.

    I get the sense he is trying to apologize (however there is no I’m sorry I was an ass in there)

    He regrets blowing up like that, because now he realizes he really effed up and I might what I said that if he treated me bad I would be gone.

    He is trying to tell me that because he was abused a a child is why he acts like an angry man and spews his vomit on me. So ok- this probably is it-but I can’t be his therapist and my fear is he will blow again—in fact I am sure of it. He would blow again.
    Oh ladies please let this be a huge lesson for anyone with angry issues. He turned me off with this so much it ended our relationship. Now can we wonder why some of us have turned men off by stuffing our feelings and then blowing up in a rage? Hmmmm. There it is right there.

    And I also think that after almost six weeks of no contact from me yes, the poor boy is still in love with me. AND he is trying to assuage his own bad feelings of guilt over ho he acted by saying to me “no hard feelings”, in the hopes I will say that back to him.

    The question is-wtf do I do? How do I respond? If at all.

    Ok. Here’s my first draft.

    CD- I feel bad that you were hit as a child. That feels horrible to me-abuse is never justified no matter what the reason is. I slapped you but I had a hard time staying calm. I was triggered and it reminded me of when I was a child and my parents yelled and slung accusations at each other, and it felt awful and I felt cornered like a dog with no way out of the violence and chaos.

    I wish you would have listened to me that night too. I still feel somewhat angry over that because I felt unheard, disrespected and abused by your ugly words.

    As far as how I feel about you, as a result of more than one incidence of this kind of thing happening between us, I do not trust you and I do not feel safe. I would be walking on eggshells always afraid this would happen again. I do not want to have a relationship with a man where I feel afraid of his verbal abuse. I want a relationship that embodies love, care, trust and respect. I did not feel loved that night. I did not feel heard. I did not feel cared for, trusted or respected. As a result, I can not have feelings of love for you in return.

    You say you love me and yet your behavior belies that statement. Maybe you do love me as best you can but it isn’t healthy what went on between us. I have learned a lot from my relationship with you. Be blessed and be well.<<<<<<<<<

    I welcome any do overs or editing from the sirens who are further down the communication feeling road that I am. I truly want to heal. I truly want to change. I truly want to have love, care, trust and respect with a good man.

    I feel so bad for him and yet I know I have to care for me first. This is not easy.

  6.  #6Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 9:42 am

    On topic-

    I got off the xmas frenzy years ago. I told all my friends that I had everything I ever needed. My daughter and I may buy something really inexpensive, but that’s about it.

    One year I backed a huge pan of cornbread stuffing and took it down to one of the missions. That felt really good to me. Another year, since I sew I made gifts of clothing and kitchen towels, etc for my friends. That felt good too.

    Above and beyond all the hype I really love the “spirit” of Christmas.

  7.  #7tinque on December 10, 2010 at 9:42 am

    TG –

    “I felt unheard. I felt disrespected. I feel badly I lashed out. I wish I could take it back. I wish things hadn’t escalated to such a degree in the first place.

    But now don’t feel safe. I fear this will happen again.

    I want a relationship that embodies love, care, trust and respect.”

    Way too long and TMI. How is this for a start?


  8.  #8Simply Shannon on December 10, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I love this time of year. Its meaning has grown so much for me in one year. I feel humbled by the gift I received without even asking for it, for which I paid nothing. It feels wrong to celebrate with so much “stuff” when the only gift that matters is free, takes up absolutely no room, and is carried within me every single day.

    I intend to not write Christmas cards this year. Maybe only for those who live far away. The ones I don’t see very often. Or maybe not.

    I intend to only buy a few gifts for my children.

    I intend to buy one gag gift for my family’s celebration. (We do dirty Santa every year. So much fun.)

    I intend to find a few activities we could do as a family instead of gift giving. In particular something for me and the kiddos to do that day before we head off to family events.

    I intend to spend time with my family, my friends, my church, and volunteering this season.

    I intend to give $5,000 to my church. This amount keeps popping in my head. I would LOVE to be able to do this. This is the only intention which I don’t have a clear vision of how it will occur. Excited and nervous. I’m creating the vessel.

    I feel very relaxed and happy about the true reason for this CHRISTmas season.

  9.  #9Simply Shannon on December 10, 2010 at 9:50 am

    TG: I don’t know that I would respond. I feel good about what he said but I don’t want a relationship with an angry volatile man. He didn’t ask anything. He just needed to say what he said. If he really wanted to talk, would he email?

    Maybe I’d just say “thank you”.

  10.  #10Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Oh SS-thank you. That’s an insight I never even considered. Yeah, if he really wanted to talk he would have called, but he is probably scared to death to do that. He is kind of chicken sh*t because he knows he really messed up. And I really don’t want a man like this. Thank you. xxoo

  11.  #11Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Tinque-yeah prolly too much information. I have trouble with “explaining”. Working on that. xxoo

  12.  #12tinque on December 10, 2010 at 10:39 am

    “if he really wanted to talk he would have called”

    Not necessarily.


  13.  #13Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 11:04 am

    “if he really wanted to talk he would have called”

    Not necessarily.


    Ok-See this is where worrying about what he is thinking gets us in trouble. The old “what’s he mean when he does this, that and the other thing” and then we are batsh*t crazy as a result.

    I have to concentrate on my feelings about the matter. I actually feel relieved he did not call. It would have felt awkward, and I would have felt pressured to respond on the spot without knowing what to say and ugh….

  14.  #14tinque on December 10, 2010 at 11:07 am

    yes, yes, yes TG, yay!!!


  15.  #15Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 11:11 am

    I feel very confused about cd man.

    I feel missing him (the good stuff)

    I feel lonely.

    I feel angry he yelled at me and verbally abused me and tried to control me and made me behave in a certain way.

    I feel hurt and disappointed he did not step up and be a man with this.

    I feel sad it ended like it did.

    I feel justified in my anger.

    I don’t want to feel justified in my anger.

    I want to feel forgiving and loving toward him.

    I want to feel forgiving and loving toward myself.

    I feel frustrated that so many people men and women have been treated so badly and abused in one form or another that we all have so many negative patterns in our lives.

    I love my negative patterns. I love my frustrations.

    I love my sadness. boo hoo… sad…want to heal

    I went to my first Reiki session yesterday and it was mind blowing awesome. My body feels great today. I believe it will help me deal with CD man and my feelings about this. I feel “cleared out” when I got home yesterday and very excited about possible breakthroughs and change.. The healer was a beautiful woman who I felt totally at peace with and I vibrated with her spirit in harmony. It was wonderful.


  16.  #16Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Great blog again.

    I too let go of many habits I used to for the past couple of years…

    Haven’t sent cards for ab 2 years.
    Presents…a few …limited…
    I am considering cooking and inviting a few friends before Christmas…and on Christmas day…

    I will send money overseas…to one of my missions in Kenya that I support and to my family back home that need food…

    Warm hugs,

  17.  #17Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Turtle Girl:

    I love the note your wrote and how you express yourself in feeling messages… 🙂

    I agree with Tinque…the note is too long if u really want it to end…i felt as though you wish he would somehow correct it all (say the right thing, do the right thing, fix it…) because u do miss him…:)

    I say this because gosh, I have done it too many times…and I now, I understand why…

    Warm hugs,

  18.  #18Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Darling Ella-

    Oh yes, you are right on. His anger was our only issue when it got right down to it. But it’s a big one. Yes, I wished he would pull his head out and “fix it” but I have resisted trying to be the one to do that for him because I know that road is not one I want to go on, because I have been down that road, seen that movie and it’s not a good one.

    The other things were wonderful. Fun, game partner, great times with family and friends. Good sex, great humor. But then……….ugh…..ugly…..uglier….ugliest..

  19.  #19tinque on December 10, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Only you can decide if his anger is a deal breaker, and it seems as though you’ve decided.

    This isn’t an easy decision, yet I feel good seeing that you recognize that you can’t “fix” him. He can only “fix” himself and only if he wants too.

  20.  #20Rachel on December 10, 2010 at 11:58 am

    I seem to have gotten sucked into a cute, flirty, sexy banter with a new CD. I am enjoying it, but I keep waiting for him to actually ask me something about myself, about my day … have a real conversation.

    Should I just lean back and see if he takes it somewhere else eventually? Or at some point do I use a feeling message that I’d like to actually get to know each other?

    I feel like I’d be leaning forward if I said I wanted to take it deeper. What do you ladies think?

  21.  #21Rachel on December 10, 2010 at 11:59 am

    I should say that this bantering has been over a period of about 4 days now. Other than “What’s up?” he hasn’t made any effort to get to know me at a deeper level. Or is it too soon to expect that?

    I’m running out of ways to say “I feel happy hearing from you!” I need some new material to “feel” about! ha!

  22.  #22Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 12:06 pm


    Some men, especially younger unskilled men have a terrible time knowing how to “make conversation” They almost always talk a lot of themselves – wwha they do, their jobs, how they are etc etc. Some of this is in their DNA it’s a natural thing in men- they “show off their colorful plumage” to win the gal.

    Unfortunately unless they have been around the block or have grown up with really exceptional male role models they often do not ask questions of women. I used to think it was because they really did not want to know, and it some cases thats true. They are just plain selfish and arrogant. However in their defense, some of them are simply clueless.

    They don’t have the skills and don’t even know they don’t have the skills. Only you can decide what level of this is ok or not ok.

    I remeber RR saying once in one of her posts something like this:

    “Gee, it is starting to feel like I am just a listening post here, and not a person and that doesn’t feel good, what do you think?”

    Maybe that applies in your case, or maybe not.

    I have also googled “how to have a great conversation” or just “conversation topics and skills” and all kinds of cool stuff comes up to help with this.


  23.  #23Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 12:10 pm


    You said this in an earlier post.


    This is what is happening. I am learning to heal my stuff and realize I no longer need a man’s anger to trigger my stuff. I do not want that anymore. His blowing up triggered me and I realized what was going on and I no longer want that. And no, I don’t want to fix him. It’s too exhausting. Been there, done that. No, I am moving on to other issues that need healing.

  24.  #24Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Ok this did not show up in my comment.

    Tinque this is what you said in an earlier post that I tried to put in between <.

    Once we heal it, they stop “doing it” (whatever it is that they are “doing to us.

    Lucy – Or maybe it’s not that they stop doing anything. It just doesn’t trigger you anymore. You can now have compassion knowing that they did the best they could given the meager tools they were given growing up.

  25.  #25Daria on December 10, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    I haver a new feel word… electric

    that’s what it feels like at night when i’m in the zone and everyone is looking and going out dancing and meeting people

    electric when the wind comes and touches my cheek

    Soul Sista’s song reminded me of it

  26.  #26Daria on December 10, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    How does the guy in the article not allow advertising on his Browser?

  27.  #27AmberS on December 10, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    He owns the domain name and either owns a server that it runs on or pays a company to host his site.

  28.  #28tinque on December 10, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    “I am learning to heal my stuff and realize I no longer need a man’s anger to trigger my stuff.”

    This is awesome Turtle Girl.

  29.  #29Daria on December 10, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Amber – hmm… to me on his Browser meant on his whole browser as he’s net surfing… not just his own site…

  30.  #30Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    @ Leo says:
    “…•§ Do a gift swap where you put a valued possession (that you already own) into the swap… “

    @ Rori says:
    “…Let me know if you’ve ever done, or are planning to do something controversial or “different” for Christmas this year….”
    Love, Rori”

    One of our annual holiday events is a “White Elephant Party” which is a way of doing a gift swap.

    The usual gift swap is a “Kris Kringle” swap where names are drawn before the party and each person pulls a name, doesn’t reveal who it is and gives a gift to the mystery person. The mystery is part of the fun.

    The “White Elephant Party” is another kind of gift swap where the person’s name is drawn at the party. It usually takes place at a potluck dinner, with the more the merrier. There is extra added swapping.

    I’ll explain it for anyone who hasn’t done it.

    1)each guest arrives at the party with a wrapped gift and places it on the gift table

    2)the host gives each guest a slip of paper with number/or name on it, the same number/or name goes in a box or bag

    3)at some point in the evening, usually right after refreshments are served, each slip is drawn and the person with same number/or name goes to gift table and takes a gift of his choice.

    4)guest opens gift to either oohs and aahhhs or giggles, hopefully oohs and ahhhs. 😆

    5)the fun part starts because after the first drawing each guest, after opening gift, has option to keep gift or trade gift with any other already opened gift.

    6)Some of the “better gifts” begin circulating around as they are swapped over and over, usually with much laughter when they are “grabbed.” 😆

    7)sometimes as consolation for not being able to trade there is an extra gift placed on table at beginning and the first person gets the mystery gift that is left.

    “White Elephant” gifts can be “white elephants” that you already own or regifts from last year, LOL, or anything else you want to wrap up but it should have some value. Especially popular are “gift certificates” such as two movie gift certificates or made up ones such as 10 hours of babysitting certificates.


  31.  #31Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 1:19 pm


    I had my first white elephant party last year and it was a blast. Everything under ten bucks and if we did not get the gift we wanted we justed swapped them! It was a hoot and cheap too. It made the spirit of Christmas so fun. Thanks for posting this, maybe I will do again this year! xxoo

  32.  #32Simply Shannon on December 10, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Hehe. Instead of White Elephant, we call it Dirty Santa. 🙂 Hilarious to see what people go for when it’s random stuff. Intriguing to say the least.

  33.  #33Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:32 pm


    “…I feel angry he yelled at me and verbally abused me and tried to control me and made me behave in a certain way…”< /i>

    It seems to me that you and CD man think and communicate in the same way: that each caused the other’s behavior and it is justifed.

    Therefore, there can not be change?


    Your words are wise and go to the heart of it. I am often usually too wordy.

    I’m affirming my beliefs from reading these exchanges.

    I’m thinking about it; wondering how I could avoid bad times, what could I do.

    I don’t want to upset TG or anyone else; I won’t do a riff/story this time but I want to prepare myself

    xoxoxo to all

  34.  #34Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    And I;m not prepared enough. It’s a little upsetting to read.

  35.  #35Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Another eek!!!!!

    Help tinque!\\\


  36.  #36Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I’ll trust my guardian angel on this one…


  37.  #37Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Still triggered… reading it.


  38.  #38Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I can only change myself.
    I can only change myself.
    I can only change myself.
    I can only change myself.
    I can only change myself.


  39.  #39Rosa on December 10, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Hi everyone.

    I wanted to share an interesting tool This is way off topic!! But it might help us think differently about Christmas.

    This website has free brain training games to play . The purpose of each game is explained ..
    eg Response inhibition is to train your brain to choose what it doesnt usually choose under pressure “Do you have trouble resisting temptation?” Use the flexibility tools.It also makes you more flexible in the moment and not just following old patterns .

    Task switching is literally changing brain gear..could this help us stop going over and over the same old same olds?

    It trains your brain- literally.

    I stumbled on this as I was searching re some memory impairment since my long anaesthesia recently .

    The implications could be fun to explore.
    I feel excited!

  40.  #40tinque on December 10, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Oh SLV look what you’ve done, AGAIN. lol I think we need to prepare a punishment for you. hehe This could be fun.


  41.  #41Daria on December 10, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    I feel aww and kinda helpless that SLV seems to feel so bad about making lil errors in type.

    I don’t want to imagine her beating herself up

    I feel good to imagine her babystepping to forgiving herself

    i feel inspired that she rebelled to continue using it hehe

    on that note of lovey love… here is aninspiring video Nikita shared with me:

  42.  #42tinque on December 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    all fixed, yay…

  43.  #43Rosa on December 10, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    OOPs thats why i am using it 🙂

  44.  #44Daria on December 10, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    from the post writer’s blog

    Question 1: If someone had a video tape of your typical day, what would they see?


    they would see me “meditating” sitting and absorbing information from what seem soutside myself – computer – book – and actually pullin gin answers to fulfill my wisdom and expansion and imaginate world with what makes me feel good and safe and moved and awed

    also communicating with people from that same spot every now and then – thru writing and or talking into various lil box

    they would see me preparing food the ay i ant it eating it and blessing it and all beings that became part of it and brought it to me

    they would see me maybe walk out my hut to be in the outside and smile at trees and gather more knowledge wisdom


    mostly just meditating at my computer box is what theyd see

    sometimes going out to meet a man and eat or talk with him

    sometimes traveling far away to meet a person and sit with thme an share in the experience of reading a book and playing a game of math

    sometimes they would see me go with other people to a big location where there is loud music and dance

    sometimes they will see me travel to a park where with other people i pick up pieces of earth athat we decided not to have on the park and putting them into special bags

    and singing and taking in the tree prepared air feeling of being out and the hypnotic electronci riplling of the teal water

  45.  #45Daria on December 10, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    i feel sad!

    i love my activities at the goddess cave and i MISSSSSSSSS

    my activities of goig out side with lots of people and men and laughing a lot moivng freely singing and dancing

    and going out to the big places where there is dance and music and big big gatherings of people where we are one group among many and stepping like royalty to be seen and admired

  46.  #46Daria on December 10, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Question 2: Based on your current actions and behaviours, where would you expect to be in five years?

    I expect to be still in my goddess cave, still gathering widom, making food for myself and blessing it, maybe having now children around me as well


    i feel disappointed because i want more vibration more activity outside with other people that is laughing singing and dancing and MORE being out like royalty and being admired

    i also wnat more maybe sharing out in front of people with ME being admired and sharing my widom or my song or my dance or my ME ness

  47.  #47Daria on December 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    how do i attract that “live groupness” into my life again?

    why does God give it to me in long periods and then let it go?

    how can i provide it for myself consistently?


    this blog is definitely a great groupness

    i miss the touch breathe live groupness

  48.  #48Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    We call it Yankee Swap. 🙂

  49.  #49Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    40: tinque says:
    “Oh SLV look what you’ve done, AGAIN. lol I think we need to prepare a punishment for you. hehe This could be fun. ”

    I sowwee… 😥

    I’ll have to use that excuse from Seinfeld…”I’m just a poor senior citizen… ” 😆

    Now I know why Lucy doesn’t like the phone so much. I got a bad telephone call while I was posting and a little triggered from the post and the phone call was not so wonderful…. my blood pressure went up a little I think.

    Thanks. Came back to check and was going to look for your e-mail.

    Feeling not too good. I need yarn!


  50.  #50tinque on December 10, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    no harm done, it’s all good now. better SLV?


  51.  #51Simply Shannon on December 10, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    SLV, why do you post with italics? I feel curious. I feel smiley every time I see it wondering when the next font change will occur. I do feel slightly annoyed that Rori asked us to stop posting that way and the rebel you are continues to do so.

    I feel weird. It feels weird that I think the font change will occur. It’s like holding my breath every time I see it. And kinda judgy when I see it, like “Why won’t she stop that?”

    I slip up all the time. I forgive myself.

  52.  #52Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    @47: Daria says:

    “..i feel inspired that she rebelled to continue using it hehe..”

    My mother used to say I was “hard-headed and stubborn like my father.” My father used to say, “don’t cause trouble for your mother”…all the while kind of laughing to the side…like he did when my brother grew the “special herbs and spices” plants in the tomato garden. ROFL 😆


  53.  #53Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I provided my groups for myself by getting close to men who created them for me

    that means getright man

    as well as guywhohadababy

    in the past past, when i was a child, it just happened…

    they came for me – the people – at my door and balcony

    but more recently,

    ok even before then guywhohadababy

    i knew gemini man

    and… before that back in romania ok they did come for me again


    they either came for me… in romania

    or else i got very close… even fell in love with… men who provided that group for me

    how can i provide this for myself?

    this is a BIG thing im getting to right now

    this is like KEY to my attraction to almost all the men in my life i think!

    how can i provide this for myself?

    what did i have back then that drew them to me in romania?

    well i had come back from america

    before that

    i had a cool bike

    i had a yellow ball

    before that

    i was jus chillin

    i think i felt lonely then too


    so i’ve way far back desired this and somehow created ways to attract it that weren’t necessarily part of myself

    yellow ball

    cool bike

    being “from america”

    gemini man


    getright man


    maybe a part of me doesnt want to attract this group

    maybe it thinks it will be overwhelmed

    lets see



    i do really good healing

    by forgiving “myself” for what i think other people have done to me

    ie not hang out with me keep me at a distance, all that


    i am remembering some boys not wanting to hang out wiht me

    i guess i decided to be boylike

    maybe it from my dad too

    not wanting to be close to me

    feeling scared of kids

    esp a girl kid


    i feel megaresistance to “forgiving” myself for “not being able to attract a group”


    forgiving “myself” for being the other side, ie the group that didnt want to hang out with me

    does not meet with resistance for me

    and the shame of not being able to attract a group pretty much melts as i forgive the other party – naming it “myself” –

    and i do this while Tapping and speaking in a soft voice

    and i invite the parts of me that want something

    and the ones that dont

    to get together and discuss whethere they might not better reach both their goals working together

    and i /LOVE them no matter what they do

    even if they decide NOt to work together

    or they decide to die,

    i still lvoe them.

    and this feels good to do… thats how i healed my anal sex experience thing last nite

    and now i just did it on this group thing


    i am developing my own compassionate form of healing

    and i love it

    i feel warm and loved

    by me

  54.  #54Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Rachel: #21

    Hmm …u post triggered me :)…

    It is my own experience that guys who dont ask about you and keep casual via email/IM (espcially), is because they either:

    are emotionally unavailable (recently broken up); are with someone on and off or even steady…but are unsure …
    have something to hide…they don’t ask so they won’t be asked
    have no money to date u, but won’t mind having virtual sex with u…:)

    Anyway, I once in a while entertain this kind of communique…he becomes kinda of my virtual friend, buffer…:)

    When a man is available he wants to hear u voice and meet u…pretty soon…

    It is leaning fwd when u inquire ab him…I noticed that ab myself (especially, if its not reciprocated)…u invest your time and interest in someone…

    Warm hugs,

  55.  #55Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    my parents used to have parties… and i was kicked out and made to go to sleep!

    UNless i had soemthign AMAZING to share and give to the group

    and then id still get kicked out later after the amazingness – saying a poem, being cute and funny –

    wore off


    ohh that felt terrible!

    yay for getting to the bottom of this

  56.  #56Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    i feel so happy you guys im just like laughing


  57.  #57Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “One of the things we’re told by productivity gurus is that we need to have clearly defined goals or outcomes — the better defined it is, the more likely you’ll achieve it.

    And this is true, to some extent. It’s worked for me, when I visualized my goals and set my mind to achieving it, and took small action steps to get there … I achieved my goals.

    It works … and yet, it’s not the only way. In fact, depending on your outlook on life, it may not be the ideal way.”

    Guest Post Guy

  58.  #58Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 3:24 pm


    Yes, I felt the same way…Not sure if it is a cultural trait…but the mentality of “Kids are to be seen not heard”…was often my reality…

    That is one aspect of my culture that I detested…and felt angry of my mother for it…

    Warm hugs,

  59.  #59Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    question for daria about teaching large groups about spiritual creativity,

    Who would want to come learn from me teach?

    noobdy nobody takes me seariously

    waht do i really have to teach?

    who am I? to think that people would want to learn from me?



    to all of u!

    you deserve to be heard!!!


  60.  #60Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Darling Ella –

    what about beating kids for getting hurt outside?


    our culture has much to heal and even MORE more more so much more to offer!

    im gonna heal it! join me ! if you want !

  61.  #61Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Daria, I feel fascinated by your process about a group.

    I have been experiencing similar feelings and thoughts around “a group.”

    I have had groups in the past and I don’t right now.

    I was going to have a holiday reconnect party for my long-lost girlfriends (plus Brenda, a new friend) at my house, but I chickened out, I guess bc I have been feeling depressed and didn’t want to commit to something and then be stuck with it or have to cancel.

    But when I was thinking about doing it, and writing down plans, I felt excited about it. Girls being together… and I thought of some fun activities . .. and I thought how great it would be to have lots of girls around like I used to when I went to the big church and was bff with the pastor.

    But now I scrapped my plans.

    Fb college guy and I were talking awhile ago about most of my friends being “gone.” Truth is, a lot of them are “gone” bc they don’t like my newer beliefs, and a lot just aren’t available much because they have happy connected marriages. And they’re not much fun.

    So fb college guy said, “I have tons of fun friends. You can come hang out with me and my friends any time you want.” But he lives 1.5 hour drive away AND he did not specifically invite me for a specific date and time.

    So I kinda find myself wanting a man who comes with a “group” that I can flow into.

    I liked that hockey guy’s niece and her hubby met up with us at the hockey game and we sat together and felt like a little fun group.

    That’s one of the things I love about the show How I Met Your Mother. They are a fun little group that share their lives together. I want to be in that group.

    Or another cool fun group.

  62.  #62Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I’ve just given myself JOY!!! and freed up lots of energy!!!


    I’ve developed a way of EFT that REALLY WORKS!!!

    for me!!!!

    ogm so much faster and completer than other ways i’ve tried

    and i’ve TRIED for years!!!

  63.  #63Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    I’m an ERIKA!! wwooo

  64.  #64Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Lucy – cool! check it out!

    I’m actually now disassociating the man from the group

    i’ve been attracted to certain men becuase of the group, and not because of the man

    this causeD HUGE pain for me when i didn’t like the way the man behaved because

    i would lose group too!!

    like with guywhohadababy

    and i think it kinda lost me the men too… on a level i think htey could tell that what i really wanted was the group, not them


    i’m so excited im healing this for myself

    I’m gonna get a ME focused group

    well, like a group that I am attracting MYSELF

    and with my new HEALING POWERS, i can do it

    it took eme like 30 seconds to heal the stuff last nite

    and what i just did today – which i mostly outlined a couple posts ago

    i just tap tap and say those words

    i dont even use Even though

  65.  #65Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I wonder what how i met your mother is like

    gonna check it out

  66.  #66Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    ohok they’re like friends but couples and stuf

  67.  #67Rachel on December 10, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Darling Ella … Thank you for your insights. I know that I invest too easily and then feel hurt when it doesn’t come back. So I guess I just wait and focus on other things …

    No investing!!! (Reminding myself!)

  68.  #68Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Daria’s words:

    i feel megaresistance to “forgiving” myself for “not being able to attract a group”


    forgiving “myself” for being the other side, ie the group that didnt want to hang out with me

    does not meet with resistance for me

    and the shame of not being able to attract a group pretty much melts as i forgive the other party – naming it “myself” –

    This makes me think of the frustrating fact that I am not able to attract certain men AND certain men are not able to attract ME — and they probably feel sad that they can’t get me the same way I feel sad about the men I can’t get.

    Daria: “forgiving” myself for “not being able to attract a group”

    Me: forgiving myself for not being able to attract a man I really like

    Daria: forgiving “myself” for being the other side, ie the group that didnt want to hang out with me

    Me: forgiving myself for being the other side, i.e., the woman who didn’t want those other men

    I “forgive” myself for “not being able to attract a man I really like” … and I “forgive” myself for not wanting the men who want me.

    Daria: and the shame of not being able to attract a group pretty much melts as i forgive the other party – naming it “myself” –

    Hmmm. Okay, I forgive myself for being the men who didn’t want me. That’s more like it.

    I forgive myself for being the ones who didn’t want me.

    What do you think, Daria? How am I doing with this?

  69.  #69Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    “ohok they’re like friends but couples and stuf”

    wikipedia gives a synopsis of all the seasons so far. Did you look there?

  70.  #70Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    @51: Simply Shannon says:

    “SLV, why do you post with italics? I feel curious.”

    It was not meant as a defiant act. I like quotes in italics, that’s all.

    “I do feel slightly annoyed that Rori asked us to stop posting that way and the rebel you are continues to do so.”

    I think I forgot about that. 😳 The rebel part is true though but not about the italics. Are smileys OK?

    “I feel weird. It feels weird that I think the font change will occur. It’s like holding my breath every time I see it.”

    I apologize. I don’t want distraction from what I’m posting.

    “And kinda judgy when I see it, like “Why won’t she stop that?” ”

    OK. I know how that is. I think that when people add apostrophes to form plurals as in: two dog’s and three cat’s and four city’s. Or use “of” as a verb, etc Also there are those people who “loose weight.” I’m little crazed after I see it. Not much, a little.

    You can breathe easier now. I hate it when I typo and see the darn thing but I can’t stop the submit button from … submitting.

    “I slip up all the time. I forgive myself.”

    Please forgive me too? I wasn’t sticking my tongue out at anyone… 😛 Really… Any persistence is because I’m fairly tenacious about doing things correctly after an error.

    P.S. Maybe you’ll soon miss the breathlessness brought on by threat of italics siege. 😯

  71.  #71Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Lucy – seems good… looks liek you’re covering all bases!

    I just did one on forgiving myself for not paying attention to my baby’s needs and feelings and instead partying with people who were not as close to me as my baby

    it works well for me if i am MYSELF as the “other person”

    as in for Lucy:

    I forgive myself for not pursuing Lucy/myself

    I forgive myself for not getting her/my feelings


    I saw you did some of that

  72.  #72Lorelei on December 10, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    I am intrigued by this post topic. I would like to get off the Christmas treadmill, but not sure I can go cold turkey. Especially this year, the first one on my own after my marriage broke down. I feel terrible whenever I think about Christmas. I feel adrift.

    But what I want to ask is this: I’ve been wondering about writing a short letter I can print off and send to everyone on my Christmas card list, ‘announcing’ that I’ve separated from my husband, and getting divorced next year. But I can’t begin to imagine how to do this. I don’t want to do it. But I feel that I should let my more distant friends and family know about this.

    “Not telling” would feel very weird and strange. Or I could just sign Christmas cards with my name only this year, and see what reactions I get!! I hate having to go through this.

    Too tired to post more now. But how have other people handled this one?

  73.  #73Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    “Goals Made Simple
    One of the most common questions I’m asked when interviewed is, “So what are your plans for Zen Habits in the next year or two?” And my answer is, “I have no plans. I just want to keep enjoying what I’m doing, do the best I can, and see what arises.”

    This is a radically different approach from the way many people do things. It’s not necessarily better, but it has worked well for me.”

    the Leo Post Guy

  74.  #74Daria on December 10, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    “Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working.” – John Gay, English poet & dramatist

  75.  #75Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    I forgive myself for not pursuing myself.

    That feels “right.”

    It feels important.

    I have said to myself, “Why would he not want me???”

    So… Why would I not want me??? I forgive myself for not wanting myself.

    Yeah. I forgive myself for not wanting myself.

    I forgive myself for not wanting myself and not pursuing myself.

    Thanks, Daria.

  76.  #76Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    “But how have other people handled this one?”

    Lorelei, I considered the same options you are considering. But ended up doing Nothing about it.

    It’s been years, and some people Still don’t know!

    Some facebook friends have gotten suspicious and msged me saying, “What happened to J?” So then I just tell them privately.

    I don’t really care.

  77.  #77Lorelei on December 10, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Lucy – hi – (76)

    thank you saying this – I feel like doing nothing about this.

    I feel that the people who I’m in touch with a lot already know, and the people I’m not often in touch with, well why do they need to know? Other than to keep in touch.

    And then there are the voices telling me what I ‘should’ do. Maybe that is my answer. Go with the feelings.

    Also, though, I’ve wondered about writing this Christmas letter using just feeling messages . . a change from the normal annual letter (which I don’t do anyway). It would be rather heartrending if I did it just in feeling messages . .

  78.  #78Lorelei on December 10, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Want to stay up and talk here, but I’m so tired, my body is saying “go to bed.”

  79.  #79Lucy on December 10, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Bye for now. Going to see Tangled with two of my kids.

  80.  #80The Nikita Show on December 10, 2010 at 4:14 pm



    Ugh….this has been annoying me.

    And people who are “smart” are guilty of this….

    WTF ?

    Loose – like loose woman 😉

    Lose- as in, how to lose a woman …..being a loser lol!


  81.  #81The Nikita Show on December 10, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Xmas shopping,


    I do my shopping dec 26 🙂

    Sale is an understatement 😉 lol!

    I don’t need capitalist rituals defining the quality of my heart or my intentions.


  82.  #82Soul Sista on December 10, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    #38: Senior Lady Vibe: “I can only change myself.”

    i just had an amazing insight meditation experience about the man i love. i’m a student of the Field Center Course and we embrace a concept called “radical responsibility.” the premise is that the only thing you CAN change is yourself.

    i feel really vulnerable and embarrassed to say this on this blog but i’m gonna anyway because i also feel it’s important. i’ve been resenting him for not rescuing me…i’m not gonna say what from but it’s been pretty big and pretty scary. other guys would to try to rescue me to and get me. but that’s not what i want.

    this came to me after i said i want to drop this resentment and get it out of my head. i meditated for about 15 minutes able to focus more and more the space between my thoughts when the insight arose as to why i’ve been so angry and what i really want. it washed through me like a cleansing, gentle loving wave.

    feels good to be able to drop that anger because as a friend of mine said to me a few weeks ago “anger clouds clear judgment.” (chronic anger, anway).

    now i’m gonna focus on, i don’t need to be rescued…all is well…there is a solution..and bask in the knowing of the vision i have always had of the relationship i want.

  83.  #83Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    @61 Lucy says:
    “That’s one of the things I love about the show How I Met Your Mother.”

    I’ve never seen that show; it was mentioned yesterday too. Now I’m curious. What network, what night?

    I haven’t watched TV in over a year… maybe I’ll do some tv. I have two, but never watch anymore…


  84.  #84Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    @82 Soul Sista says:

    “now i’m gonna focus on, i don’t need to be rescued…all is well…”

    Sometimes “me” has to rescue “me.” At least I can count on me to show up! 😀


  85.  #85Daria on December 10, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Lorelei – what about a shocking and unexpectedly happy way

    I’m thrilled to announce that I am separated from my husband and will be divorced next year. YES you read correctly… I am thrilled! Yay to new me and a happy life, and know that I all of you well (and him too).

    Love in life,


  86.  #86Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    I just noticed at top of post, I read it earlier, Rori is using…italics. heehee so they aren’t gone entirely.

    This is my second Leo interview. A few weeks ago, I reviewed one that Kim Roach did with him and used in demonstration. Does anyone here follow her? She’s an Internet marketer specializing in traffic. She’s in her 20s and fabulous.


  87.  #87Daria on December 10, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    ““Taoist thought stresses the need to find the state contentment, not soaring happiness nor the depths of despair. Finally, Taoism teaches to live a disciplined life and not worry so much about outcomes.” – The Rambling Taoist

    ok so i want soaring happiness

  88.  #88Dorothea on December 10, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    i think learning all these news tools and rules and leaning back and all that has f*cked me up in a way

    i second guess myself a lot, and i hold a man to standards that weren’t necessarily my own before.

    it feels like gusts of wind messing up my hair 24/7. maddening.

    does anyone else feel like this?

  89.  #89Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 5:07 pm


    If my posts/story, etc are triggering you then maybe that is a good thing. It has been my experience that whatever in my life pisses me off and triggers me is something that is being brought up to be healed. And yey yey for that! Am I being opened minded enough and stay out of denial so I can look at it? Am I getting the message the trigger is trying to tell me?

    Yes cd man triggered my anger. Uh huh. But there is a ton of back story that I never posted on this blog.
    And it’s so long that I am not going to.
    Let’s just say that although I am grateful for him in my life to show me my trigger and to learn and heal from it, we do not communicate the same way.

    What got mirrored for me this time was that I do not want an angry man. I have healed a lot of my anger and can not be around a man who verbally abuses me and is angry all the time. He has tons of stuff from his ex and well, I don’t want to post it all as I said. In the past I would have continued to fight, argue, make him wrong, blah blah blah, made up, got back with him, gone for round twenty seven or whatever and basically beat myself up, apologized, been the doormat, let him treat me like one and not stood up for myself. That did not happen and not only did it not happen, something else happened. I got healed. I feel free. I feel like a weight has been lifted from me, that I never ever again have to date, tolerate or have a relationship with a man like this. I know the red flags now, I can be aware of what that will look like and that is a very good thing. Perfect? No. Progress? Yes. One less wound on my plate. Next.

    I have yet to respond to this new email of his. I am slow and considering what I am going to say, if anything. I may not respond. I don’t know yet. I can have compassion for him without having him in my life. I can “go in peace”. But I am curious why this exchange of mine and cd man triggers you so?

    Much love to you SLV. xxooo
    Turtle Girl

  90.  #90Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    @88: Dorothea says:

    “…does anyone else feel like this?…”

    I’m learning a lot but I won’t do something unless I feel comfortable with it, it suits me and “I make it my own.” That’s my standard for now…

    I’m not entirely “feminine” … I’m womanly. 😀


  91.  #91Dorothea on December 10, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Turtle Girl- I havent read this whole thread of everyone else’s replies..just a few… but there’s no rule anywhere that says you have to state whether you’re still interested. i don’t think he asked for another chance or anything either. Let’s say you pushed all concern about that (since it’s practically imagined anyway) out the window. then what would you say to him?

  92.  #92Senior Lady Vibe on December 10, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    “…that I never ever again have to date, tolerate or have a relationship with a man like this…”

    Sounds good.


    That sounds good too.


  93.  #93Turtle Girl on December 10, 2010 at 5:25 pm


    No, you are right he did not ask for another chance. He knows what he did, and on some level I am sure he feels like he does not deserve another chance. I already gave him 3 or 4 already. So, no he’s not asking that. But think about it-what IS he doing? Why is he emailing me? To tell me he stills thinks about me and is still in love with me. What for? Well he must want some kind of response or why even email me at all, just move on and let me go.

    Or it is all about him, him trying to assuage his own bad feelings. I don’t know, but it effects me and yes, I need to only be concerned with my feelings. Which is why I have not responded yet. What would I say?

    Well everything I already wanted to say and more but I am not going to blow on him, I don’t feel anger at him really, I feel pity. I feel sad that he did what he did. I feel unsafe around him. I don’t trust him. So before I respond I want to make sure I am REALLY clear about how I FEEL. xxoo

  94.  #94Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 5:28 pm


    My sweet Daria, of course, I am on with u…I believe in the potential of our culture…and yes, I am listening to possibilities…:)

    Warm hug,

  95.  #95Dorothea on December 10, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    yeah i would feel the same way. well he reminds me of when i left my ex because he blew up at me. he had done it before, but i had finally reached my breaking point. it was also a new level of assholery for him that particular time.

    so he was emailing me, telling me how much he changed, etc. i was so angry i was mostly just a bitch to him. *shrug*
    now he is always so sweet to me when i rarely see him, probably because i never told anyone who knew him why i left his ass. which used to trigger me but i feel good about this decision to not tell anyone now.

    la la la sorry i’m just rambling about myself now.

  96.  #96sia on December 10, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    For me it works well, I stopped second guessing my previously existing standards. But the thing is, they were not always existing, they evolved and changed before settling, and in the process of change I let go of them one day and readopted them another, just one sentence _don§t be silly/ from anyone I considered having their stuff together would throw me – and I was temporarily happy with not living by them. But the discontent came back eventually.

    Then when they settled I second guessed them in a way that I wished I didn´t have them -like I cannot stand repeatedly unkept promises for example – and that spoiled my enjoyment of a lot of charming people.

    But this second guessing was not as strong as to even imply they are not real standards. They are real all right just a tad inconvenient.

    Maybe you are in that phase of discovery of standards which are really you – like painfully growing wisdom teeth?
    Or does it feel more like your body rejecting a transplanted foreign part?

    The thing is this philosophy in the blog is inevitably limiting by the recipientś mind – not in itself- that it casts shades on a lot of stuff which might be inherent to a person in a healthy way – just reading abouit it constntly in other contexts may create discomfort.

    I feel this constraint, it is usually almost imperceptible but it is there.
    Plus the effect of some kind of rescue gratitude for discovering! the cure! is added, as the philosophy helps so much I feel desperate to hang onto every definable discernible thread of it. It is all as well choosing what I want, but I sometimes consider this a terrible freedom.

    This I admire about other siren´s journey here, sinking into tools and deciding they are not for her.

    I wish I would be so brave in resisting the crowd peacefully. And this is the best and most free crowd ever!

    Sometimes I think we are made to categorize in order to survive /that sabre tiger is a mirror concept..hmm/ and now we suffer due to letting go of this necessity, in the process of sped up mental evolution, and evolution is a blood bath.

    I did not say how I feel, just why I think you feel confused. I feel stone on my chest and miss my dear rabbit and probably – or obviously? my thoughts are influenced..
    But wind in hair 24/7 brings nice images to mind..messy is not something which bother me. But I dislike hair tickling my face skin.

  97.  #97Daria on December 10, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    well now after tapping i facebooked one guy friend and hes like :come out”

    so i was gonna figure out how to do that when

    this guy from our area that IVE NEVER TALKED TO BEFORE

    hit me up on facebook and noiw hes gonna pick me up in liek 30 min!



    gonna go get ready

  98.  #98AmberS on December 10, 2010 at 8:32 pm


    Did you have Red Bull today? I DID!!!!! Grin. I must have missed the post where Rori outlawed funkeh type. I was thinking earlier today about how much I prefer the blog italicized. I feel relaxed, like I’m reading letters between friends.

  99.  #99AmberS on December 10, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Turtle Girl,

    When I read these posts about CD man being angry/yelling out of line I feel my stomach clench down and I feel myself tense up for the fight.

    And I read much anger in your words, too.

    I’m treading carefully here, because you’ve been clear there’s more to this story and also in your original response you mentioned being triggered due to your own childhood.

    To me it seems like you’re PO’d about his behavior, but also that you’re O’d that he didn’t apologize.

    But also that you’re PO’d at yourself and how you responded. And that part seems sort of only half unearthed to me.

    It seems like you really want an apology, but even though you resorted to physical violence yourself (and I read why, and that’s probably a very triggering way for me to word it, but..) you have not apologized TO YOURSELF.

    You have not let yourself be sorry. I hear very much the anger and the righteous indignation, but I am wondering if there are levels for you that haven’t yet been visited.

    When I read “I feel angry he yelled at me and verbally abused me and tried to control me and made me behave in a certain way.” I’m right there with you until the …made me behave in a certain way. and that was a major WHOMP in my chest. Because he tried to control you, and then he did?

    To me that statement seems like not taking responsibility for your actions. And that feels disempowering. And that brings anger.

    This is just my two cents.

  100.  #100AmberS on December 10, 2010 at 8:53 pm


    Your story on the last post! Whoa! That was an AMAZING set of challenges you overcame (sorry to be late to the party). WOW. I’m really blown away by the fact that you kept your dogs through all of that. Wow.

    Just… WOW.

  101.  #101Brenda on December 10, 2010 at 10:04 pm


    Thank you! Yes, I consider it miraculous that I kept my dogs. At every turn, people were advising me to give them up for adoption during my homelessness.

    I felt so deeply touched when the lady on the board of directors of the free medical clinic paid a few thousand dollars for me to put them in a kennel for 2 months. They understood that the dogs were a big part of my emotional health.

    Tonight my girlies got bathies, so they are going to be especially nice for cuddling with tonight!

  102.  #102Darling Ella on December 10, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Dorothea #88:

    Gosh, U comment made me burst into laughing 🙂 I guess I feel the same way…lol…but I thought maybe because I am new to it…two months the most…

    I feel curious if anyone else has had these feelings as well…:)

    Warm hugs,

  103.  #103Brenda on December 10, 2010 at 10:13 pm


    The Case Against Buying Christmas Presents is a fantastic article! I often wonder how you do it, putting out one meaningful, well-written article after another! I am with you!

    My church showed a slide presentation on the same topic, saying that the billions of dollars spent on Christmas in ONE SEASON could MORE THAN fund the billions of dollars needed for wells to be dug for every country that needs good drinking water!

    One of the most meaningful gifts I ever gave was my collection of handwritten index cards full of quotes and verses that I treasured.

    Making cards is another fun gift. I made one for Ryan on his birthday using alliteration with the letters of his full name. For example:

    RYAN, a radiant, regal child resembling royalty born, Month Day Year
    Your yesterdays yet yearn for youth, but yield…Yahweh! Yahweh is yours!
    Awesome ability appeared as avid advancement altered anguish akin to absolute annulment
    Noble, natural (novel, not normal!) nthusiasm for nippled nymphs napped in nuisance…never for nothing!

    These words all were meaningful in the light of our unique relationship, all things we had discussed.

    I have come to measure love in time. I think the best gift we can give our loved ones is our time.

    Merry Christmas, Sirens and Heroes!

    Love, Brenda

  104.  #104Brenda on December 10, 2010 at 10:25 pm


    RE: #61 – If you feel overwhelmed by planning a holiday party, how bout just inviting your friends out to dinner at a restaurant? No muss, no fuss, everyone goes dutch? What do you think?

  105.  #105Lorelei on December 10, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    Following my post @ 72 about if or whether to announce my forthcoming divorce in the Christmas cards –

    Daria @ 85 – Announce it joyfully and confidently – Wow wow wow wow wow – and wow!!!

    SLV @ 92 – although this was to TG not me, the idea of announcing that I need never again tolerate a man like that is also just simply mind-blowing and Wow wow wow again.

    And both would also be true!!!!!!

    Have I the courage? Hope so. Although I feel the profound grief and sadness, often, announcing the positive relief like this – in a ‘Christmas card ‘also true and just outside the box!! And wonderful. And speaking from a position of strength and confidence.

  106.  #106Brenda on December 10, 2010 at 10:30 pm


    RE: #72 – I have broken away a lot from people-pleasing. Why not just spell it out? Who cares what people think? If they don’t accept you divorced, do you really want to maintain that relationship?

    You could just write a Christmas newsletter running down your major events of the year. You could just matter-of-factly say you got a divorce and whatever you want to say in relation to that.

    A good friend full of acceptance will only want to support you in your new life situation.

  107.  #107Jacqueline on December 10, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Hi Amber!! and everyone — I see everyone still has the same convo going on from their perspectives. It’s funny and cool both.

    Happy to read you here – lol, and big hugs to you –

    Wonder where Renee, Sweatpea, Knock, AJ, Tina, Jason lots and lots of you are? And how you are!

    Hi, Memee!

    Esp. Knock – wondering how things turned out?

    So, Brenda – I hope every day you find the perfect vocation!

    And some OTHER SMART person is misspelling lose as loose and it’s ruining the show? LOL….

    Let it be, let it be….whispered words of wisdom.

    I am SO triggered by previous posts domination by – Hiya! Daria! But let it be….

    A suggestion did come to mind, tho – like if you took 2/3 of the time you post here and committed it to a goal and the goal was an exchange of energy with a farm, housing, food or whatever, I am sure you’d accomplish it.

    In the meantime, I’ve worked every day – no kidding, even holiday – since Nov. 15th, mostly without lunches and til 8 or so at night; and THAT’S what it takes to make that illusory stuff that parents and others pay for their houses, heat, computer and internet connections with.

    And it’s hard. Rarely joyful, sometimes rewarding. Especially since mostly people are doing the job that two people used to be emplyed to do.

    And money as an illusion? D’uh – yeah, like the steel door on my house is an illusion – really, it’s just rotation atoms with space between em. But I don’t think anyone can walk through it. So, how real is real??

    And presents – bah humbug to being scolded into NOT giving!!!! I LOVE to give gifts! I love to give the gift of a smile and I love to BE the present – as in my presence is the present. My time, my attention, my involvement.

    But really, I’m working somewhere where people don’t necessarily have FOOD…so ummm, YEAH – children should get presents. Even “older” ones, like the woman who has a 15 and a 17 year old and can’t get assistance cuz they’re not “kids.”

    Buying frenzy? How often do I buy my friends presents? Oh, yeah, ONCE A YEAR….

    and it really makes me happy. Wish I could do it twice a year.

    And to all, a goodnite….


  108.  #108Dorothea on December 10, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    lol i don’t want people to stop by and post here just to say that what’s going on/being talked about here isn’t good enough for them. lol. i feel amused.

    i feel triggered. la la la.

  109.  #109Dorothea on December 11, 2010 at 12:00 am

    i had a cd tonight. it was kinda boring but in that sense that i felt afraid he would feel bored by ME. i leaned forward most of the time to counter that, except for when i caught myself.

    he is a feminine energy man and i don’t think i can have a swimming time with him unless i lean forward. which is FINE for going out and having fun but not ok for anything serious.

    i am wishing that i had practiced rori’s tools more on my CD. although i do have a “default” setting of leaning back, which is nice.

    feeling regretful like i wasted a perfectly good practice session with leaning forward

    turning it around and feeling proud that i went out with another man that i find attractive. LI called while I was getting ready so I couldn’t answer the phone, and his message said he really missed me and wanted to talk to me, and i felt/feel grateful that i had plans in place and needed to get ready for them. sometimes i need outside intervention to stop myself from making him the center of the universe.

    he is making me dinner tomorrow night. i am going to practice feeling open and receptive to him. and not making him wrong. i was feeling nervous about it but now after going on a CD I feel less invested and worried.

    HOORAY, i love your wisdom, rori! it is helping me tremendously right now.

  110.  #110paige nowell on December 11, 2010 at 12:50 am

    hi I like this boy so i asked him out but he hasnt replyed yet do u think he still like me.

  111.  #111Daria on December 11, 2010 at 2:20 am

    omg i instantly got a ride to go out then even went barhopping
    then walked home like an hour and a half at nite alone

    that kinda makes me feel cool tho

    i get kicks from braving ‘danger’ like that i practice my tools and not believing in danger it was constant cuz the whole nite i practiced so much it was so many times i tried to jump into old habits and caught myself

    i saw everyone else as myself

  112.  #112Daria on December 11, 2010 at 2:29 am

    I like posting here

    i am proud that i take all the time i take to post here

    i dont want suggestions

    i feel insulted and am retreating and

    i forgive myself for judging and insulting and undermining myself

    i forgive myself for telling myself what to do

    i forgive myself for not understanding where i am coming from

    i love both parts of myself

    the one that wants to give me suggestions

    and the one that feels offended by them

    and i invite them

    to get together

    and discuss

    whether they might not accomplish both their goals better

    by working together

    and i love both parts of me

    no matter what they do

    and i love me too

    and i thank them for the hard work they did

    so far

    and for the work they’re gonna do in the future

    when they do it differently


    jaqueline i feel really bad being suggested that… it feels better to see my contributions here as the most beneficial thing i can do for myself

    doing therapy for myself expressing myself helping others

    it feels good to believe i am making the most feel good choices in my life for me

    i feel sad and awful not being understood, treated like i deserve “suggestions” about what to do in my life

    that feels terrible

    i dont want to be treated this way dear sister

    it feels like im not being respected as knowing whats good for me

    and that feels scary

    i dont know how to protect myself from someone taking over my life

    and telling me what to do

    it feels bad and terrifying

    i really dont want to be told what to do

    it feels like being treated like im less than u

    and that feels bad

    if u want to help me

    im open to help

    in a way tat feels good

    and when i ask for it

    but i dont want to be close to you if it’s not safe for me to feel validated and respected for who i am and how i believe and feel

  113.  #113Senior Lady Vibe on December 11, 2010 at 2:45 am

    @105: Lorelei says:

    “SLV @ 92 – although this was to TG not me, the idea of announcing that I need never again tolerate a man like that is also just simply mind-blowing and Wow wow wow again.
    And both would also be true!!!!!! …”

    But, but, but… that idea was not @TG; I was quoting her. That’s why I use italics, er, used to…

    And that was her inner thought. I don’t suggest sending an announcement in a mass holiday greeting. I would send a normal greeting but signed with only my name. No mention of separation or divorce.


  114.  #114Daria on December 11, 2010 at 3:14 am


    i feel terrible

    i read the whole post i wrote to myself

    and i forgive myself for attacking myself

    for acting like myself knows nothing

    like myself doesnt deserve what she wants

    like my beliefs and interests are below mine

    i forgive myself for putting myself down

    for making fun of myself

    for trying to crush myself underfoot

    i forgive myself for embarassing myself in front of other people

    i forgive myself for wanting to make fun of myself

    for telling myself i don support them

    for trying to make myself feel bad

    i forgive myself for ridiculing myself

    for treating myself badly

    i forgive myself for attacking myself

    for passing by and throwing lances at myself

    just to put myself down because i feel envioius of my own courage to be different

    i forgive myself for envying myself

    i forgive myself for being untruthful with myself

    i forgive myself for thinkig im less than

    i forgive myself for not being brave enough to connect with myself

    i forgive myself for trying to rip myself to shreds

    i forgive myself for thinking I don’t care for myself

    i forgive myself for not being brave enough to ask myself to play and talk

    i forgive myself for attacking myself to cover up my desperateness

    i forgive myself for not allowing myself to feel safe

    i forgive myself for pouring out my anger on myself

    i forgive myself for attacking myself

    i forgive myself for trying to stop msyelf

    i forgive myself for not trusting myself

    i forgive myself for competing with myself

    i forgive myself for not being brave enough to face the truth

    i forgive myself for keeping my distance when i so want to be close

    i forgive myself for keeping myself running to cover my anxiety

    i forgive myself for not being authentic
    with myself

    i forgive myself for keeping myself separate from myself

    i forgive myself for doubting myself

    i forgive myself for tryint to press down on myself to get myself ahead

    i forgive myself for being selfish

    i forgive myself for not being able to face my desperateness

    i forgive myself for not knowing how to behave in a way that is loving towards both parts of me

    i forgive myself for

    attacking myself

    i forgive myself for not knowing how to heal this conflicet

    i forgive myself for being overcome by fear

    i forgive myself for betraying my friend to protect myself

    i forgive myself for betraying myself

    i forgive myself for betraying myself

    i forgive myself for not being brave enough to not betray myself

    i forgive myself for betraying myself

    i forgive myself for hurting myself

    i forgive myself for not taking care of myself not making sure myself is safe not being a good person

    i forgive myself for being a coward

    i forgive myself for pushing myself away

    i forgive myself for

    separating from myself

    i forgive myself for closing off to myself i forgive myself for

    not trusting myself

    i forgive myself for not trusting myself

    not believing im worthy

    not believing im safe

    not believing im loved

    not bleieving im wanted as a friend

    not believing im fun to be around

    not believing im respected

    for not respecting myself

    i forgive myself for not respecting myself

    i forgive myself for disrespecting myself

    i forgive myself for embarssing myself

    i forgive myself for humiliating myself and not holding a dignified divine goddess being of myself

    image template of myself

    i forgive myself for still being separate from msyelf

    i forgive myself for turning away from myself

    i forgive myself for acting inauthentic

    i forgive myself for not speaking my pain

    i forgive myself for not speaking up for me

    i forgive myself for not having my back

    i forgive myself for taking someone elese anger out on myself

    i forgive myself for not noticing the pattern

    i forgive myself for repeating the pattern

    i forgive myself for remaining unaware

    i forgive myself for letting him take over me

    i forgive myself for not protecting myself

    i forgive myself for not having my back

    i forgive myself for believing bad things about myself

    i forgive myself for abandoing myself

    i forgive myself for not knowing howt ot take care of myself

    i forgive myself for not wanting to take care of myself

    i forgive myself for running away from myself over and over again

    i forgive myself for fu9cking up so much in the past

    and for judging myself

    i forgive myself for not noticing and remembering to heal

    i forgive myself for not resting

    i forgive myself for not keeping my word

    i forgive myself for dissapointing myself

    i forgive myself for holding on to the sadness

    i forgive myself for not loving this sadness

    i forgive myself for not healing the broken heart

    i forgive myself for allowing myself to get in the situation which humiliated me

    i forgive myself for not taking care of myself

    i forgive myself for not making myself happy

    i forgive myself for not treasuiring my happiness

    i forgive myself for spending so much time in unhappiness

    i forgive myself for letting myself down

    i forgive myself for running away from myself

    i forgive myself for not being brave

    i forgive myself for not being brave enough

    i forgive myself for thinking im not brave enough

    i forgive myself for treating myself so poorly

    i forgive myself for bullying myself

    i forgive myself for beating myself up

    i forgive myself for staying in the cage and acting so stuck

    i forgive myself for not giving myself the life i want

    i forgive msyelf for not keeping my word to myself not beng there for myself

    acting unloving towards myself

    abandoning myself

    doing stuff to make myself feel disappointed not good enough and scared and desperate

    i forgive myself for not coming to see myself more often not calling myself when plans are canceled not wooing and romancing myself and not putting my feelings first in life

    i forgive myself for not taking good care of my heart

    i forgive myself for making my heart hurt

    i forgive myself for not treating the heart with extreme sacred care

    i forgive myself for not honoring the heart

    i forgive myself for making myself suffer so much

    i forgive myself for having kept myself from seeing for so long

    i forgive myself for treating myself so badly

    i forgive myself for not trusting myself

    i forgive myself for not exploring myself

    i forgive myself for not supporting myself when i needed support

    i forgive myself for not focusing on myself

    i forgive myself for not giving myself the level of attention that feels good

    i forgive msyelf for depriving myself of love

    i forgive myself for choosing not to be aware and not to see

    i forgive myself for being so stubborn

    i forgive myself for being fearful

    i forgive msyelf for engaing in right and wrong debate

    i forgive myself for trying to make myself better by putting someone down

    i forgive myself for not getting it

    i forgive myself for not embracing myself

    i forgive myself for being so harsh with myself

    i forgive myself for stifling my creativity

    i forgive myself for falling for the lie

    i forgive myself for being narrow and shallow minded

    i forgive myself for treating myself like an enemy

    i forgive myself for not coming close and connecting with myself

    i forgive myself for separating msyelf from myself

    i forgive myself for judging myself

    i forgive myself for not listening to myself

    i forgive myself for not paying attention to myself

    i forgive myself for segregating and attacking myself

    i forgive myself for blaming myself

    i forgive myself for not being able to break the pattern

    i forgive myself for acting on automaticpilot

    i forgive myself for treating msyelf in a way i wouldnt want to be treated

    i forgive myself for not being strong
    i forgive myself for being addicted

    i forgive myself for not being able to heal

    i forgive myself for thinking im not able to heal

    i forgive myself for keeping myself in prison all my life

    i forgive myself for not knowing how to clear the tension

  115.  #115Daria on December 11, 2010 at 3:19 am

    I had a redbull!

  116.  #116Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 3:20 am

    Ok, I have been a naughty little Siren..
    and I am NOT regretting it one iota.

    I STOPPED stuffing the feelings , STOPPED pretending , and spoke the truth…far too scary to fess up here…

    I think It will finally end G-mans yo yo contact game.

    I feel exhausted.
    I feel scared and lonely.
    I feel liberated and FREE …..

    5 years is enough. Hopefully he wont forgive me now and will stay away – I didnt want this to be the way it ended , but I cannot countenance any further games with him. I will not. I shall not , I -every -future perfect -tense -verb NOT …

    I win and I lose .
    I lose more than he, but I gain peace of mind.

    He loved me for 3 days , (including sex with my recently mutilated body) then he left to try and make it work with someone else..what?????

    This time is too much ..5 years too much.

    Goodbye G- man -I love you dearly , BUT I will NOT be used for sex and validation, and a soft place to fall.. You can go CRUMB OFF!!!!!!

    And due to facebook , I suspect she knows a bit more about your sideline activities now too…


    I am now praying for my Guardian Angel to wrap me up in her wings and soothe my pain and hurt and fear … G- Man is bad…man crack toxic and I stood up to him…save me Guardian Angel please.!

  117.  #117Daria on December 11, 2010 at 3:22 am

    Rosa – i got a weird feeling as soon as i read that you “held out 2 days” i was like um then what happend… holding out doesn’t sound good

    glad you spoke the truth woo hoo


    lets see what happens


  118.  #118Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 3:48 am

    Ok, I have been a forthright little Siren…
    and I am NOT regretting it one iota.

    I STOPPED stuffing the feelings , STOPPED pretending , and spoke the truth…far too scary to fess up here…

    I think It will finally end G-mans yo yo contact game.

    I feel exhausted.
    I feel scared and lonely.
    I feel liberated and FREE …..

    5 years is enough. Hopefully he now will stay away – I didnt want this to be the way it ended , but I cannot countenance any further games with him. I will not. I shall not , I -every -future perfect -tense -verb NOT …

    I win and I lose .
    I lose more than he, but I gain peace of mind.

    He loved me for 3 days , (including sex with my recently mutilated body) THEN he cut me off high and dry , he left to try and make it work with someone else..what?????

    This time is too much ..5 years too much.Ok In am slow to get it.

    Goodbye G- man -I love you dearly , BUT I will NOT be used for sex and validation, and a soft place to fall.. You can go CRUMB OFF!!!!!!

    And I am NOT engaged in a conspiracy of silence any longer…you seem to think I would sit down and say “yes Sir” … No G-Man I feel worn out and tired of games.. its over. We all know the score now.


    I am now praying for my Guardian Angel to wrap me up in her wings and soothe my pain and hurt and fear … G- Man is bad…man crack toxic and I stood up to him…save me Guardian Angel please.!

    I love my strength and my good heart.

  119.  #119Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 3:55 am

    Thats dopuble fpr emphasis !!!
    Dont know why it posted twice..must have felt my fervour:)

  120.  #120Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 4:05 am

    In Australia we have a big nasty spider called the Funnel Web , it kills with one bite.

    When cornered and harrassed and threatened it rears back and launches forward with its fangs , into the target.

    I am feeling like a funnel web…my angry venom is dripping…

    I am hurting greatly as well and I am feeling great loss and sadness.

  121.  #121Ella on December 11, 2010 at 5:46 am

    I feel so ill today.
    Just got back home after 2 weeks away working in the city. I was teaching a course and it completely drained my energy.
    It was a good opportunity and good money however teaching is generally masculine energy and I am now feeling physically exhausted!
    I became ill over the last 2 days of the course.
    Right now I am coughing and full of mucus. I am aching all over and feeling a wreck.
    Being away from my family and in the stressful environment of the city is not good for me. Completely threw out my equilibrium!
    I am healing now back at home.

  122.  #122AmberS on December 11, 2010 at 5:58 am


    You are a brave, beautiful, amazing woman and I feel so proud for your strength and sad for your sadness & hurt.

    You are honoring yourself and I love reading posts from the goddess as she emerges from the layers of constriction she has been confined in.

    I wish I were there to sit with you while you vent your hurt and anger and cry. I wish I could just sit there so that you are not alone and I don’t need to say anything because you already have all of the knowledge and strength, but I know this pain is so big.

    And I know it is temporary.

    Love- Amber

  123.  #123Ella on December 11, 2010 at 6:03 am

    still dating Mr Barman and he is stepping up so well right now. It feels ummm, yummy, lovely! 🙂

  124.  #124Turtle Girl on December 11, 2010 at 9:25 am

    #99 Amber

    Oh darlin’ thank you for your insight. However-I realized that I made a typo and one letter changes everything.

    I was not angry that me MADE me behave in a certain way, but that he was trying to MAKE me behave in a certain way. Oh lord how things can get confused and it was just a riff………what I meant by that is that part of the argument we had was his fear of me cd’ing other guys!!!!!! He went ballistic over the fact that even though I had agreed at the time to be exclusive with him (after much badgering on his part) he still though I was out dating and having sex with another man! And I was not!

    So in my riff I was angry at him trying to CONTROL me and make me do what HE wanted me to do and then when I did, was an ass anyway!

    So yeah, some of that sure I was angry at myself for “giving in to him” because he then turned around and treated me with so much disrespect it was incredible.

    Here’s some of the stuff I wasn’t going to post-he also brought up the fact that I “slept with him too soon” and basically in so many words called me a whore. Is this a man I want to be with? No no, but hell no. We had been dating for over a month when I went to his house and I asked for sex. I had not had any for over a year and well I was feeling particularly rock star diva that night. And he used that to throw it in my face and put me down and punish me later. Isn’t that lovely?

  125.  #125Turtle Girl on December 11, 2010 at 9:44 am

    So here’s more of what triggered me about cd man’s actions.

    He wanted, sex and so did I. Then later even though he liked having sex he punishes me for having it with him. It’s the whole Madonaa/whore thing. They want it, but when you give it to them they call you a whore.

    So men can have all the sex they want and we girls have to adhere to some sort of impossible standard that is controlled by who? The men. Does this piss me off? Oh yeah baby, big time. I will not be put down for enjoying sex. I was outraged. How dare him. Yes how dare him, and I won’t be told by anyone that this somehow makes me “a bad girl”. I really hate the double standard of sexuality.

    Message to all the men out there-I will fuch whoever I want when ever I want and it does not make me a bad girl. Piss off cd man.

    This is that deep crap embedded in all our psyches.
    The men themselves publish books on it on how they really want you not wait 90 days before having sex because somewhere in their little pea brain they think that if you are having sex with them, then you will have sex with any man and they hate you for it.
    This sh*t makes me crazy.

    They see it as you somehow not being worthy of them bringing home meat to the cave. Talk about screwed up.

  126.  #126Turtle Girl on December 11, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Oh for the love of typos—IN the above post I meant they really want you to wait 90 days before having sex. This is what Steve Harvey says in his book about having “standards”. Hmmmm.

    On an intellectual plane I understand that getting to know a a guy first is good. Hoping into bed on the first date may not be a good thing, but if a man is going to judge me based on how long I waited to have sex with him, then that is not the kind of man I want to be with.

  127.  #127The Nikita Show on December 11, 2010 at 10:10 am


    I don’t get the feeling it’s about you/us being less than for not waiting(sex)

    my feeling is that it stimulates non-safe feelings and doesn’t meet the need for work…..earning……proving himself…….merit.

    There is a sense of insecurity here….if a woman does it because she’s horny…..what if she gets horny when I’m at work? Will the postman get the gift of her sexuality? Will offspring be produced by the postman, cable guy, neighbor?

    Whoa! My seed is feeling not so well planted….here….I feel threatened….. I don’t like feeling threatened…..and neither do my gonads LOL! 😉


    I support you doing what felt good for you.
    – sounds like attacking energy and fear…..from him

  128.  #128Turtle Girl on December 11, 2010 at 10:39 am


    Thank you thank you thank you. That’s exactly what it was… see his wife from eleven years ago cheated on him, not only cheated but actually brought her lover into the home while he was there at a party-right in front of him. She had cheated many times I guess and when he found out, he took her back and lived with her another seven years! Whoa!

    So he is spring loaded for the first little sign of betrayal. That is the issue and it’s an ugly one and I want to be trusted because I am trustworthy and loyal sexually (after a real commitment of course) but he wanted me to be committed without the commitment-in other words-a girlfriend and well we all already know where that leads. As RR says, what guy wouldn’t want that? Such a deal. Cake and eat it to. Girl on call. NEXT!

  129.  #129Lisa on December 11, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Dear Rori,

    I have two of your programs, very helpful. However, I have employed the method and it did not work with my ex boyfreind of two years. When I backed off, he became angry and withdrew even more, while I stopped all contact, he completely ignored me execpt to call a month later to say he had a new girl and was happy. I was angry, and do not want him back. I have struggled with men, and have not met anyone I find interesting or attractive who like me back. The only men interested in me are those not suited to me at all. But I do not know what if anything I m doing wrong.

    Thanks, Lisa

  130.  #130Jacqueline on December 11, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I stopped by and had thoughts about Rori’s post….and cuz I missed some sirens! But it’s cool that people can say what they don’t like and it doesn’t bother me. I’m not into being made wrong; as obviously the few that remain are not either.

    I like talking about what’s really real….and kind of wanted to tell you all about some of the real life stories I’ve been exposed to…

    And I miss all the stories I was hoping to catch up on.

    Seems like the never ending story came to an end for a lot of folks and I missed the endings.

    Thanks to everyone who shared those stories; I loved being involved in them.

    Yall take care – I’m so happy to be happy and it’s 75 degrees, sunny and packages are arriving from other countries for me!!

    Whoooo hooooo….happy day,

  131.  #131Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Amber @121

    You said the perfect things to me.
    I feel cared for without judgment or reason.
    I feel accepted and relieved that I could share my pain.

    Years of hiding the pain and stuffing the feelings

    Trying to be the “strong” one and everyone else bringing their problems to me.
    To make matters worse that is my job too.
    Professional masculine energy , problem solving and give give giving out my precious energy.

    When G-Man brought me intimacy and care this week my heart soared… again.. Time after time this has happened. When I get too far from him he creates instant intimacy and obligation and enmeshes it all in family and special occasions.

    To clarify this , he has never missed my Birthday . Last year he flew in to see me (and it transpired to see GF also !) Thursday night , picture the scene, G-Man cooking up a storm for my Mum , my sons and a friend , making a fuss of my Birthday again, being applauded and liked by all , hes an impressive magnificent man when he wants to be liked .

    Then coming to my room later and sex, of course, sex with my scarred body. I was so so vulnerable. I needed to be held close and I needed to feel loved . My resistance was low . I am anaemic, poor concentration, difficulty walking 50 yards..I am bruised and in pain and, so help me, I needed my man to love me.

    He creates obligation , he feels obligated if people do nice things for him and THEN he creates return obligation to get favours . The favours he wanted were sex with me, on his terms of course, and my apartment keys in the City for a week at Christmas.

    I realised this after he asked could he use my place because he would be back and he wasnt sure if he would be able to stay with GF .WHAT?? He had told me things were rocky and she was distancing herself.(I asked him before i agreed to sex.)

    He had created obligation by caring for me ,and my magnificent family night he had my spare apartment keys in his pocket and he had disappeared over the Harbour to stay with friends .

    He had also given himself a lovely ego massage and a White Knight fix. He so loves a rescue.. .He was no more there for me than he ever had been ..The whole thing was an illusion..

    I realised he had an essential security key on that ring and I texted and asked him to bring it over. He did so ,but did not answer my text asking him to come in for a drink and dropped the keys in the mail box. Then texted “done”. That was it. I was deleted. He had withdrawn .

    I expressed my feelings.
    I am hurting.
    I feel cut off .
    I feel deleted .
    I feel totally confused by your behaviour.

    His answer was that he was sorry I felt that way but he was trying to fix things with L (GF) and that was taking all his energy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  132.  #132Ella on December 11, 2010 at 11:56 am


    Thanks for the link to your site. I am going to have a read.

    Also I already feel like I have made friends with her, which I have never done before. I have given her a name and appreciate her and it just feels already like stuff is easing and the anger there is gradually melting away.

    🙂 so thank you.

  133.  #133Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Oh Rosa, I feel so sad reading your story. 🙁 (((HUGS)))

  134.  #134tinque on December 11, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Ella – That’s so awesome and incredibly healing in and of itself to become her best friend. She will reward you with pleasure like maybe you’ve never experienced before. She still amazes me at her abilities. The more you heal, the more she heals.

  135.  #135tinque on December 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Rosa – I feel deeply sad and hugely angry reading your story. Taking advantage when someone is vulnerable has no words I can conjure.

    I feel you.

  136.  #136Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Jacqueline, thanks for writing what you wrote about Christmas. I have similar feelings. Alas, this is the first year I have not felt happy and excited about shopping for gifts — I’m just feeling really down.

    (I’ve been exposed to the ideas presented in this guest post for many years bc I homeschooled my children and it is a popular philosophy among Christian homeschooling families. So it felt very familiar to me to hear it. 🙂 )

  137.  #137Ella on December 11, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I feel really appreciative of Mr Barman right now and all the things he does for me like paying for all my drinks. Giving me attention, cuddles, picking me up in his car, fixing food for me, bringing me juice in the morning etc…

    I want to express my appreciation and have written a text. But not sent it.

    Tonight I am at home ill. He is working. We have been in touch by text.

    I do not want to lean forward. Shall I wait till I see him (probably tomorrow if I am better) to express this?

    I want to share my feelings but I guess there is no need for urgency…

  138.  #138Daria on December 11, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    went out last nite

    it really helps to do mental eft with affirmations like

    I feel safe I feel safe i feel safe on each pt…


    I feel good about myself


    I feel good with the level of attention i am giving myself

    it helped also to forgive the parts of me that wanted to attack me or make me less than

    even tho now i’m feeling triggered it felt really helpful in the moment


    i wound up walking home! which i was prepared for

    an hour and a half

    adventurous me

  139.  #139Senior Lady Vibe on December 11, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    @127: Turtle Girl says:

    “I want to be trusted because I am trustworthy and loyal sexually (after a real commitment of course) but he wanted me to be committed without the commitment-in other words-a girlfriend and well we all already know where that leads. ”

    The words used here convey the message that the writer does not have commitment and is therefore not now sexually loyal. I am suspecting this is not what you meant. On the other hand, maybe you did.

    Or did you mean that you really are sexually exclusive but you are keeping it a secret until the guy commits? IMHO, I do not think this is helpful.

    I believe there is a difference between sexual exclusivity and commitment. They seem to be all bundled up here as if you and the guy are not on the same page. If these are the words you used to him… I guess he wouldn’t like it too much if he minds you sleeping with other men.

    First you say you are not then you say you are. Things are fuzzy here.

    I know it makes me crazy reading it. I have to sit on my hands not to post anything about it. And I failed this time. That’s the triggered part. I’m not anywhere good as tingue at cutting to the chase.

    And the guy communicates the same way… I’m triggered. What a horrible thing to say to you about early sex.

    A month after regular dating isn’t even abnormally early, in my way of thinking anyway. It certainly wasn’t a one-night stand. AND, big AND, it was with HIM!!! So what is he expecting to be called? A man-whore player?

    I would be SO annoyed to hear those words from a man. I would be out of there. That would have to get sorted out right away or it’s a dealbreaker…but how much sorting out could there be when you are admitting that no commitment, no sexual loyalty?

    …going to bonk my head against the wall…


  140.  #140Daria on December 11, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “I don’t get the feeling it’s about you/us being less than for not waiting(sex)

    my feeling is that it stimulates non-safe feelings and doesn’t meet the need for work…..earning……proving himself…….merit.

    There is a sense of insecurity here….if a woman does it because she’s horny…..what if she gets horny when I’m at work? Will the postman get the gift of her sexuality? Will offspring be produced by the postman, cable guy, neighbor?

    Whoa! My seed is feeling not so well planted….here….I feel threatened….. I don’t like feeling threatened…..and neither do my gonads LOL! ”

    I think all this can be bypassed when a woman is firm in her boundaries ABOUT HERSELF

    that is,

    if she is always authentic

    the man will be attracted to her no matter if she’s sleeping with other men

    and he’ll be able to trust her because she always tells the truth

    anyway i just noticed that when i hold my opinion of myself clear, even if other people are judging me… (and i actually FEEL THE ENERGY and HEAR THEIR THOUGHTS now and am realizing – ITS ?NOT ME!!)

    when i continually affirm myself to myself and continue to pay attention to myself

    then they will feel safe that my energy is a ROCK

    and that i won’t shift or make myself less than

    and they will be attracted to me

  141.  #141Ella on December 11, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    this is interesting as i think i have a fear that the good stuff will stop or that i will not be able to continue creating the relationship i want…

    i know this comes from my past relationships and the feeling that i have ‘failed’ at them. and the fear is that i will not be able to sustain a good relationship…

    but i didn’t have rori’s tools before!

    i realise this fear is what drives my need for urgency. and that in itself could mess things up so it is much better if i lean back and work on easing that fear.

    continue cd-ing… although that feels like a chore right now i know it is important for my vibe…

  142.  #142Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Three hours later I did the unthinkable.
    I did what i should have done 5 years ago.
    I withdrew from the game.

    Not gracefully.
    This is the unthinkable spider venom part.. I SPOKE UP . I stepped into my power . The power I have to ensure he stays away from me in future.
    I feel that power seed growing as I type this.

    I messaged her on FB and asked her did she know he had been two timing us both since she had known him,( dates included), and that he had been celebrating my Birthday in his usual style. He had done the SAME THING for her 2 weeks ago.
    Face Book is a dangerous place , please check your security settings Sirens .

    I told her he would see us both each time he flew into the country , phone sex, internet sex the works..I told her I allowed this till July when I realised what was going on. I realised that he was apparently in a relationship with her and cheating on the side with me. I told her I had withdrawn and that he had relentlessly pursued me since then .I told her her situation was basically the same as mine but shorter in duration.

    I told her I was out of the game.

    I hold no ill feeling towards her. Only to him.
    I feel a little icky that it was unpleasant to do this.I feel hugely RELIEVED.

    I feel good that if they do continue a relationship then I am NO LONGER caught in a conspiracy of silence. My truth has been told.He will stay away from me now.
    Once again I have deleted his phone numbers which I only relisted in hospital last month when he came to see me.

    Five long aching years and only breast cancer to show for it.

    Stuffing , stuffing stuffing out of fear he would abandon me completely .

    Erosion of basic self esteem.
    He depended on that to keep me there at his beck and call and keep my silence.

    A Goddess who loves herself would never allow such manipulation and abuse.

    I was weak and vulnerable when he met me post divorce and he prayed on that. He picked his targets well. In the past there were others , one other at least is still on his side f@ck list..(and she is another wounded bird)

    How he lives his life is up to him.
    I just need to find ways to keep strong and keep him away. This blog is such a way.

    I hope that he will see my action as an unforgivable disloyalty and STAY AWAY once and for all.

    Thank you Sirens for listening. You are all my lifeline here today. I feel so much better for speaking the truth.

    It is all very small stuff in the greater scheme of life to an observer. That is the inherent danger .Its subtle , its manipulative and it eats away at your foundations.

    Tolerating this gorgeous, charming, loving, caring TOXIC man in my life damn near killed me – literally.

    Thank you for reading so far.

  143.  #143Ella on December 11, 2010 at 12:48 pm


    i fee; fear, what if it stops what if i cannot sustain? that feels scary like tight in my tummy/chest.

    feels thinky in my head, panicky, flighty not grounded.

    feels bad
    and aching in my kidneys and my liver. achey all through my body.

    feels like temperature…

    but so what if it does stop with this one guy? There will ALWAYS be plenty of guys who are ready to give me love. plentiful… and my happiness is first.

    just enjoy little Ella…

    enjoy the good feelings. keep shining. sparkly.

    you are safe. I AM love! I have love in me so there will ALWAYS be LOVE for me.

    It is good. I love how I am right now.

    I love how I feel generally and I feel good about me in the prescence of mr barman.

    But keep tghe focus on me Ella. It is ALL about you and how I feel. Keep being honest. Keep checking in, being authentic and expressing!

    You can do this! I will take care of you. ALWAYS! I promise.

    Cus I love you.

    work on recieving, feelinngs/ good, calm, expressing.

    I’m going to read about sex the RR way now as I realise I have no clue about how to have sex in my feminine energy… it is not something I have ever had to consider before.

    Thank you for this chance to learn and grow. I am looking forward to learning about sex RR style and maybe even getting to try it out…

    oww, there is that tinge of fear again.. and cough!

    I will learn about it anyway regardless of what does or doesn’t happen in this one situation. Because I want to know…

    I want to learn and experiment and expand.

    see how this new approach feels. New for me.

    I wonder what will happen! Ow I can feel a touch of excitement under the fear.

    Still feel kinda scared, something new, fear of the unknown. what is it doesn’t work,,,

    switch it Ella… I wonder how it will feel to learn about this…. I wonder what will happen and how that will feel,

    I wonder! ?? 🙂

  144.  #144Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Thank you Tinque and Lucy. I feel your hugs .
    I feel calm.
    I will try and get some more sleep.

    I am needing healing of body, mind and heart.

  145.  #145Katnina on December 11, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Brenda from your post at 103
    ‘I have come to measure love in time. I think the best gift we can give our loved ones is our time.’
    so true

    I am so thankful that you shared your story of homelessness and caring for your dogs on the last blog article. I felt humbled and honored to read about what you went through because of your commitment to your puppies.
    You are amazing.
    I’ve been thinking about your posts for the past 24 hours and I am so impressed by your courage and grace. I think you should write a book about your experience. I even have a title suggestion! ‘For the Love of Dogs: One Woman’s Journey Through Homelessness”
    Your writing style really grips me.
    You are awesome!
    Thank you.

  146.  #146Senior Lady Vibe on December 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm


    I want to give you a big hug. I want to say it will be all right even though that doesn’t mean it is all right now. You are strong, you will survive this as you did the surgery and go on to fight another day. xoxoxo

    I believe that your guy did take care of you and he was there for you but it did not mean that he would now be with you for happily every after.

    He did not hold his sexual desire in check when it would have been better for you had he done so. But the sex really doesn’t change things and I do not believe he meant to hurt you. Probably the contrary, it was meant as comfort…not as a pity, it was a caring for you in that way. He’s a guy.

    You were vulnerable due to pained and weakened condition. I know the feeling; I am recovering also. I was not ambulatory for a couple months this summer. I was deserted. I was sad and afraid. I talked to my deceased father.

    If you can, let your guy be; he’s still out there somewhere. Let him go fight his own dragons. You fight yours. Focus all your love and caring on yourself. Take him up later, if you want. Sling him onto your horse if nothing else to let him get a glimpse of you and your forever man. Ha!

    You might see his actions as something against you, I don’t believe they are. I do believe you deserve better. I believe you can have better. It might be with someone else.

    Hugs, Rosa.


  147.  #147Senior Lady Vibe on December 11, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    “Five long aching years and only breast cancer to show for it.”

    Rosa, I bet there were a lot of sweet times in those years also. Do not poison yourself thinking only of the bad times. Breast cancer? Gone. And you’ll have perky breasts to show for it.

    off to the yarn store!

  148.  #148Ella on December 11, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I feel so afraid that a man will nit want me sexually. Because that is what happened with my ex…

    and it seems I may have internalised this!

    Feels like a wound or scar to me!

    but that is a situation that happened, not a feeling Ella. What is the feeling?

    Fear, fear of intimacy.

    Afraidy fraidy like a scaredy cat!

    Maybe he can actually do intimacy better than me! ow there is a weird thought.

    But what is the feeling underneath Ella? The feeling is ‘Less than’ not good enough… so that is where the work is…

    Work on feeling enough, cus you ARE enough.. you are lovely… baby steps.

    It’s ok to feel less than sometimes but don’t live by it.

    Know your value and what you can bring. the gift of yourself. and that will be good for everyone.

    Healing the emptiness and the black hole inside… filling it up gradually with love.

    Warm, fuzzy love feelings like amber swirls and orange, warm and love and beautiful.

    Pleasure. warm and fuzzy pleasure is ok. As long as its real?

    It’s getting there.

    I love you.

  149.  #149Katnina on December 11, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Hugs, Rosa. I’m so sorry to hear you are feeling sad about your experience with G-Man.
    I am SO HAPPY you are feeling your siren power and embracing your feelings and expressing them.
    you are STRONG and POWERFUL.
    you are totally and completely allowed to do whatever you need to take care of yourself.
    sending lots of love and healing energy to you,

  150.  #150Ella on December 11, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    It’s ok to feel less than sometimes…

  151.  #151Ella on December 11, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    It’s real. Real pleasure. Real LOVE. For Me.

  152.  #152Mai on December 11, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    hi rosa
    feel sad reading your story. i want you to be happy and healthy again. xx

  153.  #153Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I feel scared. What if I get de-railed? What if I cannot be strong enough to put my happiness first even if that means walking away from a man I like?

    I want to trust myself but I feel scared as I have been de-railed so many times before.

    I feel worried that I am not strong enough to take care of myself.

    My fear is being majorly triggered right now…

    So much fear…

    what if there is something wrong with me, like I am slightly ‘off’ vibe…

    But why would there be Ella?

    And even if there is we can work with that! We can always work with things to heal and turn them around.

    And we have RR tools now.

    Plus I KNOW deep down that you ARE Strong enough. That you will put your happiness first as you want to choose a different route.

    I know you.

    You may fall off your horse temporarily however I trust you to get back on your path.

    You can do it Ella.

    And I am being triggered so much by the situation with Mr Barman! And I feel I have so many issues ‘left over’ from previous relationship and so much that needs healing.

    But this like any other is an opportunity to do that.

    I am getting triggered to my fear response.

    Feel scared so much right now. Don’t partciularly want to feel scared. Would prefer to feel in control.

    But that is an illusion anyway.

    I accept my fear. That is ok, I feel my fear and feels like bluey, black hole of emptiness.

    And tight feelings in my body. And illness… hmm interesting. I am feeling ill.

    And I am feeling afraid.

    Gently though… feeling like achy all over in body. Tight fearful, like wanting to fight, resist, push away, close down…

    Questions ‘what if I can’t handle it?’ ‘what if I get lost?’ inb the intimacy… what if I lose myself.

    Don’t feel I have strong enough sense of self yet.

    Baby steps… do what feels safe and then step gently out of comfort zone gradually.

    We will look after you.

    Accept all if you. From scared, little child, to sexual, wanton woman…

    And there is a conflict there…

    But is ok to be both. And feel both. I accept both.

    My vibe feels funny tonight. Maybe cus I feel ill (want to say I AM ill but this is not true, I am not anything, I simnply feel!) or maybe I feel ill because my vibe is off a bit.

    I am learning to heal. Why I am feeling ill?

    But is ok to feel ill…. gently gently.

    Love love love all the ill feelings and fear… stay open. You can do it.



  154.  #154Simply Shannon on December 11, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    I feel so happy. Lovely CD this afternoon with a really great guy. He’s coming to church with me tomorrow. Swoon! My life is magic. Truly. God is manifesting a great man for me. I wonder if it’s this guy. No matter. He is working on my behalf. Spirit magic feels awesome.

  155.  #155Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Oh, of course!

    Just NVs…. I totally forgot about that!

    Of course that is what they are!

    I love my NVs!

  156.  #156Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    I wonder what would happen if I decided for sure not to have sex until I am married, like I was originally taught was God’s plan.

    I wonder if having sex without marriage is sorta like Abram sleeping with Hagar as an attempted shortcut to fulfilling God’s prophecy for his life.

  157.  #157Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I choose to feel sexy and enough and I love feeling sexy and enough…

    I push my NV away… I hear them and then give them a cookie and send them to the corner while they munch on it.

    I choose to feel sexy and enough and I love feeling sexy and enough!

  158.  #158Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    SS I feel happy reading your post and your swoon! 🙂

    Lucy I feel weird reading your post 154 – feels like judgemental or ‘shoulds’ to me… I think I am bit triggered by hearing about what god thinks we should do…

    Not sure I understand the post though.

    I feel afraid to say anything and also I know it is your post and I do not want to upset you. Just feels trigering to me for some reason.

  159.  #159Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    @ SS
    “God is manifesting a great man for me. I wonder if it’s this guy. No matter. He is working on my behalf. Spirit magic feels awesome.”

    … I love this! Feels good to read. This is how I want to view my situation with Mr Barman.

    This is how I choose to view my situation.

    Feels good. Feels good, feels good.

    God is manifesting a man for me. I wonder if it is this guy? But it doesn’t matter… He is serving me anyway, working on my behalf! I feel happy, loved and appreciative of the men who work for my happiness!


  160.  #160Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Oh, just NVs!

    Yay, I feel so happy now! that is all they are!

    Feels good. good.

  161.  #161Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Just NVs, yes yes.

  162.  #162Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Ha, la la la… feel so HAPPY!

    YAY YAY YAY for me!

    Feeling good. La la.

  163.  #163Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Hi Ella. Sorry you feel weird about my post. I don’t want anyone to feel afraid of upsetting me.

    “feels like judgemental or ‘shoulds’ to me”

    I understand that feeling. I am sorta potentially coming full circle, with your perspective being the one I held most recently.

  164.  #164Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:51 pm


    You are so brave!

    You are really strong. I hope you can love yourself and heal now. You have done an amazing thing to break the cycle and put yourself first at last.

    Healing starts here in this space.

    Hugs to you.

  165.  #165Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Lucy its ok…

    How does it feel when you think about not having sex until you are married?

  166.  #166Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Oh little NVs,

    I feel so relieved. Feel lighter. 🙂

    Yay yay.

  167.  #167Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Ella, it feels a lil exciting, like maybe it’s what God has been wanting me to see — the lesson for me in this season. That maybe it would open a door for me that has been shut.

  168.  #168Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    I feel good about being more sexual with Mr Barman… if it feels right at the time.

    Right now it is about healing.

  169.  #169Ella on December 11, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    I feel good about being more sexual with Mr Barman… if it feels right at the time.

    Right now it is about healing.

  170.  #170Ella on December 11, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Lucy I am glad you feel good.

  171.  #171Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Well, I wouldn’t say I feel “good”…. 🙂

  172.  #172Lucy on December 11, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    166-167 I totally get that. That’s where I was for the past year and a half in my journey of healing my sexuality.

  173.  #173Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Ella Thank you .
    I claim this

    S P A C E

    This is my healing space.

  174.  #174Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 3:32 pm


    You are so right. He probably does think he has given me so much so why wont I play the game ?

    It is difficult to distinguish the very subtle difference between benign bumbling “caring” for me, and repeated self directed attempts to keep me available for benefits by buying my loyalty with little licks of love here and there..

    The truth is , he was lying by omission to her about me and vice versa and playing us both. It disregards attachment and hormones and love that a woman feels . He basically wants several long standing women “friends” all to love him ,revere his heroics and have have sex with him , share life intimately with him and cheer him on when he gallops off to the next one! Then he comes back , when he feels so inclined. I guess that is polyamoury.

    I choose to not take part in polyamoury.
    The wounding when he leaves is too great.

    Thank you SLV for caring also .
    I am so sorry that you were deserted in your pain and need.
    That must have felt so horrible and so lonely.
    I am so glad you are recovering sense of humour intact.

  175.  #175Rachel on December 11, 2010 at 3:33 pm


    “God is manifesting a man for me. I wonder if it is this guy? But it doesn’t matter… He is serving me anyway, working on my behalf! I feel happy, loved and appreciative of the men who work for my happiness!”

    Yes! Thank you! This gave me a place of peace just now as I work to stay open and simply receive what men can give me … even when it’s not fully what I wish it were! They are working on my behalf and I do feel appreciative. I love them all!

    This feels warm and peaceful and powerful. It feels like a hug for my heart which has been achey today.

  176.  #176Ella on December 11, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Rachel re 173 – Yay!

  177.  #177Daria on December 11, 2010 at 3:48 pm

  178.  #178tinque on December 11, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    that was awesome Daria….I’m crying with laughter.

  179.  #179Ella on December 11, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Ok, it is interesting for me to see how I was wanting to react last night…

    Last night was the first time I have seen Mr Barman in over 1 week. I was feeling nervous and a lil anxious about how trhings would be, but I didn’t realise that at the time.

    Well when I turned up he did not give me the attention I would have liked immediately and this triggered me into wanting to ‘act out’ in certain ways in order to get the attention I felt I deserved.

    My need for recognition and superiority. My ego.

    Well he went to play darts and I felt really angry. So I started texting my friend as I was going to leave cus I felt like ‘I will show him! How dare he not give me the attention I want! I will punish him by going’…

    And then I caught myself. And I made a decision instead that I would stay and I would tell him how I felt.

    Well at that moment he came back from playinig darts and said something like ‘well that is the last thing I have to do all night now’ whilst looking at me… and I understood. He was telling me he would focus on me now.

    Then he bought me a drink and focused on me and everything just kinda melted away. I no longer felt angry or spikey.

    I stayed open to him.

    I made sure to stay open to him even when I was feeling shaky by keeping eye contact when I wanted to look away and by allowing him close to me when he came near me. Later I went and stood by his side and this felt ok too.

    I had some urges to ‘make him jealous’ and I have no idea why. Maybe it was tied in with the feeling at the beginning of not getting the attention I wanted from him.

    But I turned this round into just CD-ing the men around me in the bar by simply talking to them and engaging with them when I was not engaging with him.

    And this felt ok.

    There was one weird moment when I felt like his dad was being kinda flirty towards me and I felt like flirting back. This was after some tequila. I do not remember clearly but I remember feeling uncomfortable and ‘bad’ and like I was so wrong. And feeling guilty although in reality I don’t think I really did anything. But I felt bad in that moment.

    So I stopped what I was doing.

    I did feel urges to ‘act’ a certain way to make him jealous… to ‘prove’ that I am desirable! Like WTF Ella, you are desirable. No need to prove.

    But as I relaxed the urges eased up although still there. Comes from feeling of not being enough – NV… but settles as I spend more time with him and I settle down being with him.

    And even if I am not behaving perfectly he still is good to me.

    The other behaviour I did last night was getting drunk.

    Again this is a reaction to how I was feeling. A couple of things. One like a pressure relief where I had been feeling so ‘responsible’ all week and it had only been about work and nothing else. And I just wanted to let go.

    And two about feelings disconnected from Mr Barman simply because of not having been in his phsyical prescence all week, and feeling anxious/lil nervous about how things would be.

    So I decided to get drunk.

    I do not feel particularly bad about this. It is what it is, however I wonder if I will be able to get to a place where I can feel all these things w/o needing to react and get drunk?? … I wonder.

    Would be good to be able to get that feeling of ‘letting go’ without the need for getting drunk!

    Well later in the night we (Me and Mr Barman) were quite sexual towards each other… more than we ever have been before. And it felt good (although my memory is patchy as I was still quite tipsy). We didn’t have sex and it felt good to be close to him in this way… like yummy.

    In the morning I felt ill and he looked after me!

    I think I behaved a bit badly! If we are labelling/judging BUT he behaved badly before, the other week. Anyway what does it matter? No need to label or judge, just love.

    And actually I did not really behave too badly! And so what even if I did.

    And he looked after me and did not judge me (like my ex used to)… owww, that is weird… I didn’t realise until now just how much my ex used to judge me and label my behaviour.

    Wow this is back to the issues I have around judging people and I obviously choose a man in my ex who would judge me! Wow.

    So I behaved a bit like a naughty Diva… and it is ok. I still feel good and love myself.

    Maybe I was unconscioulsy testing him to see his reaction… but maybe not. I think I was just doing what I wanted to do at the time! So that feels good.

    Naughty Divas rule! And I am sexy and badly behaved sometimes and that is great.

    No guilt anymore… just curious fascination as I learn about my triggers and reactions.

    And looking forward to experiment with not getting drunk in reaction to certain situations.

    And if sometimes I still do that is ok, especially if I still love myself. And have men around me who still love me no matter what.

    Which I do. They are here to serve and love me while I learn and grow!


    And I wonder what Mr Barman would say if he knew I was still CD-ing. Have a feeling he wouldn’t like it. Have a feeling he wants me for himself. This is how it feels. I wonder.

    Well I have been honest that really I want a life comittment before I commit myself to just one man…

    So I feel some slight worry about this but I will stay curious to see what happens next.

    I do not feel like kissing anyone else right now but I am staying open and definitely continue to CD, although it feels scary as I like him.

    Good progress / babysteps.

    I feel good about this.

  180.  #180Ella on December 11, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Daria re 175

    Lol, love it!

    Just what I needed – a good laugh! 🙂

  181.  #181Ella on December 11, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    I feel bored of my own stuff now.

    Ready to move on and be open.

    Ready to try something different.

    Think I will read some other posts now.

  182.  #182Ella on December 11, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I feel excited to have this chance at trying something new.

    I feel juicy and lovely.

    I feel loved and at home in my new life that I am creating.

    I feel positive and sexy and suprised to find love in unexpected places.

    I feel connected to my family in ways I never have before.

    I feel able to be completely honest and that makes me feel safer than I have ever felt before.

    I feel less fear than I used to and even when I do feel fear it is ok.

    I feel cosy and loving towards the Christmas Season and excited about what is coming.

    I feel good.

    Thank you.

  183.  #183Senior Lady Vibe on December 11, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    @172 Rosa

    “You are so right. He probably does think he has given me so much so why wont I play the game ? ”

    I don’t think that. I don’t know what he’s thinking or that he wants you to “play the game.” I think you are feeling bad and those thoughts come to mind.

    I can only guess: most likely he cares for you but not in the way you want at the moment. From what you have posted I don’t perceive a master manipulation plan.

    If he just wanted sex he would not have had to come to you just for that. Do you think that?

    But if you put up a boundary, discussed it with him and he pushed through it due to your vulnerability that seems a character weakness on his part.

    It’s difficult and horrible feeling when the knight in shining armor suddenly appears to be a weasel and poufs out the door. It is shocking and sickening and will take breath right out of the body and have me wishing time would stand still.

    Music helps. I’d pick a music video–I still do this–from YouTube and play it over and over and gain strength from the music and lyrics and then I’d try another.

    There is a gospel music vid I played a lot. I sucked the energy out of this one:

    YouTube comment–
    “Go ahead white people sing that Gospel. You got soul.”

    Miss Belinda Lund and The Ama’r Gospel Choir (Denmark)
    Christmas concert 2007

    “How I Got Over”

    I’d play my favorite movies on DVD. I did a lot of upper body exercises, I could do those while in bed.

    I was online a lot, I still am. I played a lot of Solitaire card games.

    I read a lot.

    I talked on phone a lot.

    I had visitors but kind of disconcerting when friend arrives and says, are you crying again? Again? but in a friendly way 😆

    Then I was up and walking and started reading the Rori blog and then I was doing the “eye gaze” with men on the sidewalks. That’s fun. You can walk now so I’d do that a lot. I love getting out and walking around.

    I know I will be OK. I’m OK now but I’ll be more OK later…and I will kick his ass… only in a metaphorical way as in “living well is the best revenge.” not even thinking of vengeance but only “living well” is living well.

    But saying the words aloud “I will kick his ass” is strangely powerful. Try saying it, no joke. 😀

    This is not a Rori tool but it’s my tool and I like it a lot. 😆 The sirens will probably rebuke me for this. I do what works for me. 😉


  184.  #184AmberS on December 11, 2010 at 6:53 pm


    And I will gladly have tea (or coffee or Red Bull or whatever your preference is) any day.

    You can tell me all about metaphorically kicking his ass. I think I like this tool more than anything I’ve read in a very long time.


    Oh, Yes. That does pack a punch.

    PS- I was posting to you (at you? in your general direction?) on the last thread this am.

  185.  #185AmberS on December 11, 2010 at 7:12 pm


    I feel… inept. Tongue tied. Pain like this has sometimes swallowed me and left me crumpled. People told me it would pass, fade or otherwise become not all encompassing. In retrospect I guess it helped to hear that. They were right.

    But inside of it every day felt like more work than I could face.

    You are amazing me with your strength.

    As I was reading your post about letting it all out I felt something shift, something letting go, and I thought in my heart -now the healing can begin. I realized that this is akin to another surgery, removing something unhealthy from your life. And you chose to do it.

    You are so brave.

  186.  #186Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Yes Amber , the surgical metaphor is very apt.

    I have dissected him out of my heart and thrown him in the dish !( Along with my breast , which I loved dearly and which was part of ME , not all bad , but the cancerous bit meant it would kill me eventually if it wasnt removed.) There is a hole there but it will soon be filled with love .

    Sometimes an organ or a joint is rotten or worn out and it just has to be removed for the health and overall survival of the patient.

    I feel encouraged and lighter after reading your words. You are a very empathic person . Or at least I feel that empathy.

    The energy of Siren Island is overall very strong, supportive and positive and it seems to pass all around the world- I feel some of it washing out the hole left in my heart.

  187.  #187Rosa on December 11, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    SLV – thank you so much for sharing the details of your dark time of illness and healing. I dont recall reading those things before . Thank you for your disclosure.
    I feel blessed by your sharing!

    You are a wonderful example. I am wondering about the disappearing weasel man. Did he leave you ill and alone? Or was that a different time?

    I felt very sad about you crying alone day after day.
    I do it too. I have taken myself away for a few days from my sons as I was so irritable and nasty and sad.
    That was before the G episode. I am alone now but going to have more company soon.

    Either way , hurt is hurt , and hearts heal !
    And that is wonderful news.

    Thank you for the links and ideas. I am off to check the link shortly.

    I cant read for long as yet but I started playing some mind games on to help my brain.

    I miss exercise as chest and abdo both are involved and I am not allowed to use weights or do any abdominal work. I got in a pool yesterday and kind of breast stroked with my lower body vertical and making odd bicycling movements 🙂 It wore me out . Will try again in a few days.

    I love the idea of “sucking out the energy” from you tube clips !!! I will try doing some searches there.

    I also love singing but with the abdominal work I cant do it for now, the breathing is too difficult. So I am getting MANY messages from the Universe about learning not to DO , just to BE.

    Thank you Gorgeous Sirens

  188.  #188Deb on December 12, 2010 at 12:52 am

    Sirens ~

    I just experienced a little bit of a sticky situation tonight and my reaction was to clam up and I feel all anxious and bad now…

    It’s kind of a fun story I guess though! I was out with Shag after a Santa pub-crawl and we were just heading home when we ran into ShimSham & friends on the street – eep! CD collision! I’ve managed to avoid this for so long, but I guess it was bound to happen…

    Before we could part ways, the band on the street corner started picking up some blues (thats how we do it down here – guess where!) and we had a spontaneous dancing showdown in the street! hehe – that part was fun! The guys used to social dance in the same group so they know how to trade out partners and so ShimSham got to dance with me too 🙂

    So why is this a problem?

    Well, Shag knows that I’m seeing others, and I’ve pulled back from him in the past week because I was feeling overwhelmed, confused, and needed to work out my feelings. *sigh* but I couldn’t bring myself to tell him that its ShimSham I’m seeing. Now that we’ve all been in the same place it feels dishonest not to say anything… I just don’t want to be disrespectful to him. When he is saying “Oh yeah, ShimSham is a great guy” I feel like I am stuffing down all sorts of feelings not to blurt out whats going on! What do I do?

    Also, tonight one of Shag’s friends secretly told me that he’s planning on asking me to marry him in 2 months – eep! eeeppp!!!! Good Lord… I feel… hmmm… a little queasy and scared here. I just think that by now I should like a guy more than I like him if I want to marry them! I get kind of sick of him by the end of a date. He doesn’t put his stupid camera down to stop taking pictures of me and he starts thinking he’s really funny, but I just find it terribly annoying because I don’t think our senses of humor jive 🙁 Its tough because he continues to treat me like a queen and does everything right… I wish that were enough… Ahhh! this kills me, I do care for him and I don’t want to hurt him 🙁 🙁 Should I not accepts gifts or requests for dates anymore? I hate this part! wah!

    Meanwhile, since I stopped being sexual with ShimSham, we’ve actually grown closer. We share more personal feelings and lean on each other for support. He stops by and calls all the time now and I love it! He also knows I date others, and if he hadn’t figured it out from facebook pics, now he knows who! I just feel bad because I wonder if it helps or hurts our relationship for him to see me out with another who is calling me “sweetie” and holding my hand. I don’t get the sense that he is the jealous type, but I have no idea how jealously works for guys. If he’s NOT jealous is that good or bad? Ick… sounds like I’m over-analyzing, huh? Should I just not care/wonder what he thinks?

    And while the subject of gifts is on this blog post…

    I have “goodbye” dates with each of them this coming week because I am leaving town to visit home for the holidays… Shag has hinted that he is giving me a multi-part gift and has already started… I baked him some cookies… is that enough? I feel pressure to do more for Shag now, but I’m just all clammed up and am having trouble expressing… 🙁
    I was just planning on making some caramel corn for ShimSham because he is gluten-free.

    Thanks for “listening” Sirens – I mostly just needed to vent here! I would feel happy to hear other’s thoughts or comments!

  189.  #189Ragnell on December 12, 2010 at 12:55 am

    I have fell out of love. The man was not worth my time.

  190.  #190Kat @ Get Back To Him on December 12, 2010 at 1:05 am

    Really great discussion Rori on what so many people don’t consider during the Christmas season. I myself, prefer Easter, except for pet rabbits getting treated as temporary objects.

  191.  #191Daria on December 12, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Deb – with Shag — i remember Rori telling us that with a good man, we might feel scared and overwhelmed with his attention on us (but not in that toxic on edge eggshell way) –

    and in this case we should let him know that its a lil too strong/intense for us so that he can facilitate us better

    with Shimsham – you don’t actually have a ‘relationship’ with any of these men … just dating…
    a dating relationship… none of the thinking jealous/ not jealous stuff has any effect… except indirectly if you are focusing on it… on You and therefore Your Vibe … and that has a huge power

  192.  #192Daria on December 12, 2010 at 1:19 am

    ps – no need to give them any gifts at all… but if i felt like making them cookies or something well i guess i might

    tho personally i might just keep those for my family

  193.  #193Daria on December 12, 2010 at 3:26 am

    today i am on a new level of communicating
    because i am imagining the guys as Myself

    a part of myself

    i am therefore not rejecting this part of myself

    and i am telling it how i feel in a clear and not afraid of offending it way

    because im not afraid of offending msyelf

    or that myself will run off


    wehre would it go!

    its connected to me!


    this meant i didnt so much use my sexy voice

    instead i was using my chill voice


    when texting

    i made it clear i wasnt interested in certain stuff

    and that i felt angry and stuff was a big turnoff

    ie being asked out at nite

    i was so chill about it

    i told the second guy welll

    to me it brings up thoughts that this person is being rude and disrespectful

    but my tone is chillax

    because im chihllax

    im like… well im not saying youre rude, cuz hey i dont know u

    thats just what comes up for me

    then i feel mhph

    so hes like no i dont want you to feel that way



    i feel good

    i am making big babysteps and getting to a new paradaigm with this everyone is myself thing

    goodnite myself!

  194.  #194Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 5:27 am

    @185: Rosa says:
    “SLV – thank you so much for sharing the details of your dark time of illness and healing. I dont recall reading those things before. Thank you for your disclosure.”

    I don’t talk about myself much unless it’s a tip or resource to pass along or some fun I’m having.

    The weasel situation wasn’t even a proper relationship, it was an “unfortunate attachment” of the imaginery relationship variety. Too embarassing to discuss. I wasn’t thinking about finding a relationship only spending time with someone I liked.

    But it reinforced my desire for the qualities to look for in “the relationship I want.” I’ve grown and that’s a good thing. Now I want the whole cake!

    I want someone who is kind and caring even when things aren’t going so well, through sickness and health, thick or thin. And I began learning about CD.

    In a bizarre way I can thank the guy for that because until this year, for decades I’d skipped over men entirely, not dating. Even the “hormone poisoning” thing is OK, which as you know can cause major distress. I am really thinking it jumpstarted by hormone deprived body. Weird. So I’m OK with it. I’m older and experienced enough to already know I will survive. My concerns have been mainly with my health.

    Also, I had to leave my part time job but I’ve had time to explore and think about things. I was already used to living on a small income so I didn’t go crazy; I prefer more time to more money. I am thankful for this additional time. I am coming out of this into a better place than where I started.

    So happy to be alive! 😀


  195.  #195Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 6:33 am

    The Gospel Song “How I Got Over” from Uptown Saturday Night

  196.  #196Rachel on December 12, 2010 at 8:25 am

    It’s a beautiful snowy morning and I can’t help but think of how good it will feel someday to spend such a morning cuddled up in someone’s arms.

  197.  #197Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 8:44 am

    Hi Rosa – reading and catching up – sending hugs and hopes that you know you are on your horse of the truth of your feelings, instincts and intuition and that the horse will get you through all of this, to what your soul needs.

  198.  #198Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Thanks for everyone’s comments about different ways to deal with sending out Christmas cards that are from just me this year.

    I still haven’t decided . . a dear friend said to me today, what would I want if friends I wasn’t in contact with regularly had become separated during the year . .

    And I would want to hear of it. To not tell, seems to be putting myself more out of touch with people I enjoy infrequent contact with . .

    Feel like crying just pondering it . .

  199.  #199Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 9:03 am

    And I’m now spamming the post! In the last few days, I’ve had 2 dates with different men. Pre-Rori, this would never have happened!! And I’d like to tell you how they went.

    WaveMan – came 520 miles to see me, through the snow and ice, and we had coffee, walked, had lunch, and walked some more. I didn’t have the feeling that I wanted to leave before the 5 hours were up. It felt good that he was “as advertised” and as he was on the phone. He was more nervous than me, but it was OK. I felt comfortable leaning back, leaning way back, chatting and being witty! He made me feel good, and safe. And at one point, when I was leaning very far back, literally, and responding from a leaned-back place emotionally, he commented that I seemed very relaxed, very natural and very self-assured. Well – no-one’s ever said that before.

    I realised afterwards, though, that I had not managed to be open about all my feelings – I could have shared some sadness at one point. When I got home I actually felt some very real sadness – more another lump of sadness for my marriage (and some anger about things my husband did) than anything to do with the date. But I became aware how much I had held it in later on in the date.

    Since then he has texted regularly and phoned once and I am seeing and feeling that he is a kind man.

    But – my mind comes in and says this will not work because neither of us could relocate (we didn’t talk about this – way too early) and I don’t want a long-distance relationship. But equally, I want to be in the moment and in my feelings ..

    He’s asked me if I would feel comfortable giving him my address, “as its Christmas” and the funny thing is, the truthful thing is, I don’t know. I suddenly feel I want to keep him at arm’s length, which feels like closing down . . hmm, not sure what I feel . .

  200.  #200Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Spamming some more.

    The date with ZenMan yesterday. It took me a while to get out of WaveMan zone ready to be in ZenMan zone.

    I’m feeling a lot of general feelings of being turned on, just by the process of being in contact, and now being in company with these men.I can’t always tell if it is the specific man, or just my general openness to the possibilities of dating. . . so . .

    But, ZenMan is sexy, and I feel very comfortable in his company. In looks and style and interests, he’s more my sort of man than WaveMan. But he’s also quieter, and more serious . .

    We met for lunch (and extremely nice lunch at good restaurant), then went to 2 exhibitions, which we’re both into, then he asked if I wanted to get home or wanted a drink at a bar. So we had a drink at a bar and more getting to know each other chat. I feel very attracted to him, more than to Wave Man, though there was some attraction there as well.

    It felt natural and comfortable spending hours with both these men, but sort of natural and comfortable in different ways.

    As we parted company, Wave Man kissed me on the cheek twice, and said “Lovely time again, keep in touch.” I didn’t have time to say “You too . .” just smiled and radiated. So I hope I hear from him again. He has always taken the pace slower than Wave Man – less frequent contact, like once or twice a week. He hasn’t texted or anything. So I suppose I just lean back, lean back, get busy, and do not send him a link about something we talked about that he would find of interest.

  201.  #201Dorothea on December 12, 2010 at 9:35 am

    i feel so gooood that i caught myself and stopped breaking the 4 rori rules many times yesterday. and i just breeeeeathed and relaxed. it felt so awkward to just be. i felt like i needed to say something or offer something intellectual or reassuring. but i know this isn’t the case as evidenced by his extreme rowing and attentiveness.

    i am feeling much better in life. nearly 2 months of a new diet and a week of pure leaning back and being as open and unzippered as i can right now. i feel a hug shift and it feels good. i want it to last.

    i feel love radiating out of me and into me.

  202.  #202Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 9:43 am

    wow Dorothea (197) – that feels exciting to read. Keep radiating!

  203.  #203Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 10:04 am

    @194: Lorelei says:
    “Thanks for everyone’s comments about different ways to deal with sending out Christmas cards that are from just me this year.
    Feel like crying just pondering it . .”

    Don’t cry, Lorelei. Enjoy your holiday. IMHO, I would not want to receive, in my happy holiday greetings, personal news about an unhappy relationship.

    I would send out beautiful cards to my usual list. For closer friends, I’d send a separate note card with the news phrased very briefly and without bitterness or glee.

    Those people that care about you probably already know unless you and your ex are still living at the same address.

    In your business life, if you have changed your name you only need to inform personnel dept and to remark to others on a “as you go”, “need to know basis.” When you talk to people you tell them “I’m using my maiden name now” or whatever you are using.

    If you are writing a business letter or memo, you sign with your current name and place the old name in parenthesis. You only need to do this once per contact when it comes up–sort of like leaning back where you don’t have to phone a guy to tell him you don’t want to talk to him again.

    You don’t have to discuss the relationship.


  204.  #204Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Hi SLV (199)

    Thanks for your thoughts . . people I’m close to do already know, of course, about the marriage breakdown.

    Business contacts aren’t really relevant here. My husband moved out in September. With my more distant friends, who I do want to keep in touch with, even though in some cases it’s now only once a year, I do want to keep them in the picture. And over the years, there has often been bad news in with Christmas greetings – that’s life. That’s reality. And it would be authentic.

    I’m not offended by your comments, at all, but I just can’t quite understand why you wouldn’t want to hear unhappy news in with Christmas cards . . .

    The thing that really stresses me is this: although it’s been difficult, and I’m still grieving, it is also good and happy news for me – that I’m getting out of the marriage, the divorce will go though maybe spring or summer next year, and I have my new start in life.

    But feel I can’t be honest (put the positive stuff) to people who we both knew/know, who were my husband’s friends first, but who I sent the Christmas cards to. He won’t have told many of them himself – if any – he’s not good at keeping in touch.

    Maybe I’ll just make a start and see what feels right as I go . . Maybe I”m worrying too much and overthinking this one.

  205.  #205Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 10:49 am

    @200 Lorelei says:
    “I’m not offended by your comments, at all, but I just can’t quite understand why you wouldn’t want to hear unhappy news in with Christmas cards . . . ”

    OK. 😆


  206.  #206Deb on December 12, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thank you Daria. Your right, it doesn’t matter unless I’m making it matter…

    I can’t imagine a Siren singing her song from the island, stopping to be worried and concerned over what the sailors think of each other!

    I have communicated feeling overwhelmed to Shag and he responded very well, he didn’t pout or make me feel bad. But now he is asking to see me too frequently again… like if I go out dancing with him tonight, it will cramp my CDing because he gets all possessive. I just don’t feel compatible with him…

    Imaging guys as myself when communicating is an interesting tool – thanks for sharing! Maybe I’ll take a teeny baby step toward trying that today 🙂

    *sigh* its a breezy cold Sunday today! Its nice to be done with this last crazy week of work and take a break! I’m gonna go paint my nails and snuggle up with a book 🙂

  207.  #207Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 10:59 am

    @200 Lorelei
    “. . Maybe I”m worrying too much and overthinking this one.”

    Maybe. Your post didn’t offend me either. If it’s your style to send bad news with your Christmas cards you have every legal right to do so. 😀 Our tastes are different, that’s all.


  208.  #208Dorothea on December 12, 2010 at 11:03 am

    hey deb
    i used to feel overwhelmed and irritated and turned off by guys who asked to see me too frequently but i really think it was my own trigger and fear of having boundaries. all in all, the problem wasn’t the guy but my fear of saying “i have plans already.” those plans can simply be to relax and do what feels good to me. no need to explain. i felt afraid that if i turned him down he’d stop asking at all to see me or would lose interest. accepting his invitation when i didn’t really feel like it that particular instance was actually me overfunctioning and leaning forward and it led to strain and argument between me and these men.

    leaning back looks like turning down invitations when you don’t want to go to take care of and honor yourself and also so that you can be present and open and not overtaxed when you DO spend time with a man. everyone wins and authenticity breeds more easily. sometimes this can even eliminate all previous weirdo clinginess from men when authenticity is increased in the courtship.

    daria said something about leaning back fixes 80% of problems, especially with men that are turning us off. i think she was right on.

  209.  #209Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 11:10 am

    @196: Lorelei says:

    “As we parted company, Wave Man kissed me on the cheek twice, and said “Lovely time again, keep in touch.” I didn’t have time to say “You too . .” just smiled and radiated. So I hope I hear from him again. He has always taken the pace slower than Wave Man – ”

    Do you mean the “him” you hope to hear from is Zen Man? Either way your CDing is exciting. I’m living vicariously,

    I’m leaving in few minutes to go to Christmas event. It rained all day until few minutes ago and I’d planned to go to laundromat. I didn’t. Now I have to wear an outfit I don’t like so much.

    This is teaching me a Iesson that I must increase my cute clothes wardrobe. The whole wardrobe must be fab. Gee, what if my “sweetie” is a stranger that i meet today? Isn’t that always the way things go… 😆

    It must feel good with TWO that you like.


  210.  #210Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Dorothea, I love love love #204! It helps me tremendously to see it spelled out that way — this is exactly what I was dealing with this week but the thoughts and feelings were all jumbled up inside my head leaving me confused. It’s like you took all the pieces and put them together in a way that really makes very good sense! Thanks, girl! <3

  211.  #211Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 11:26 am

    “saying “i have plans already.” those plans can simply be to relax and do what feels good to me. no need to explain.”

    love it

  212.  #212Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 11:30 am

    My ex-h stopped by just now on his way to work to use my computer to apply for a parent loan to cover the balance for next semester for our two college kids — $8000 total. I feel grateful that he did that.

    I gave back by making him a sandwich for the road. 🙂

  213.  #213Daria on December 12, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Yay! I finally had a dream about guywhohadababy where I was all lean back and siren like and he was attracted to me

  214.  #214Daria on December 12, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Lorelei – I don’t really get why the divorce is bad news. Isn’t it a choice u made in order to pursue your happiness? Isn’t it great news?

    It’s like – I lost my job – vs – I’m changing careers. Which group would I want to be in?

    A Truthful and Self affirming attitude that I’m determined to be happy in life might inspire others… And I would want the same for my loved ones.

  215.  #215Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Daria, over the past year when I have experimented with the concept of seeing others as “myself” and not separate from me, etc., I ended up running into a problem that I couldn’t solve (and TN man, who introduced me to the concept, tried to solve it for me, and when he couldn’t, he changed the subject to sex …(coward))… Anyway, I am wondering if you have any insights about this — here’s the problem —

    If we are not really separate from others, and everyone else is also “myself,” then that means we already have the relationship we want bc there are already people in the world who have that and both ppl in that relationship are “myself.”

    For instance: Man I like is “myself.” He is dating a girl, who is also “myself.” If they are in love and get married, then “myself” is in love and getting married.

    Then why do I not FEEL like I am in love and getting married? Why do I still FEEL alone?

    The usual answer is that it’s bc my “egoic self” is still in some way holding on to the illusion that we are separate.

    So, my question then (to TN man) was how to give up that illusion completely in order to have the in love and together feelings instead of the alone feelings.

    He tried to walk me through it with a series of questions and exercises, but my brain kept coming up with answers that didn’t fit with where he was trying to go with it. So he ended up telling me I needed a good spanking.

    So…. what do you think, Daria?

    (If you don’t feel like exploring the problem with me, I will not feel bad. It’s okay.)

  216.  #216LonePlum on December 12, 2010 at 12:21 pm

  217.  #217LonePlum on December 12, 2010 at 12:22 pm

  218.  #218Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    SLV @201, 203, 205

    Glad we sorted that one out!

    It is nice to have two I like!! But it might get confusing.

    WaveMan has been in touch every day since the first date 3 days ago. Which is nice. But I wonder if I’m shutting down a bit. He’s a long way away, and I don’t know how it could ever work out. But I liked him on the date. And I do like him.

    Second date with ZenMan yesterday, and I like him as well, and I find him quite sexy. But the pattern with him has been contact once or twice a week over a couple of months. And I would like to hear from him again, but nothing yet. So it’s lean back time.

    It could get very confusing, and my attraction seems to waver between the two. I don’t understand this.

    Have a great night out SLV in your lovely vibe. And yes, you are going to be needing more cute clothes.

    And what I really want to know is . . . . um, (gently put), what is keeping you living vicariously . . . It all feels more exciting when we get our hands a little dirty . . well, no innuendo intended here . .but who knows, for you, what might happen . .

    Without Rori and without this blog I wouldn’t have had the faintest idea where to begin. . .


  219.  #219Daria on December 12, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Hi Lucy –

    I feel excited thinking up answers to this.

    Well I guess why I still feel alone is because under my consciousness I’m choosing to. My consciousness is listening and displaying thoughts of being alone.

    There’s a part of me that wants to be alone. And there’s a part of me that doesn’t. This feels distressful guys!

    Both parts want good stuff for me – safety and happiness – and going about it in different ways. and I invite them to get together and discuss whether it might not feel better and work better accomplish both their goals by working together. And I love both of them no matter what they do the cuties. And I love me too

    Working together tap tap

    Feeling safe and happy

    Accomishing our goals together in a new way

    That feels healthier and happier

    Than battling

    And loving ourselves

    No matter what we do

    Thanking th. For the work they did

    And for the work they’re gonna do for me in the future

    When they do it different

  220.  #220Daria on December 12, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    everyone is a part of myself and I experience my creation and the energy mostly through my body

    In that way I don’t like to think about the body not being important etc. I like much better for the body to be important to bey magic thing my magic being be part of nature ( here I haven’t seen Acim being interpreted this way )

    Then also I don’t like to diss my ego . I love my ego, thecpart of me that has made a separation for the purpose of living and experiencing life as the being they call Daria .

    I migh be experiencing aloneness because I want to be touched more and breathe more pheromones and eat more comforty hearty food and laugh and look at eyeballs and stretch inside.

    My spirit is one and I experience this experience through this mind and body… I don’t have to but I damn sure wanted to and I’d have to be very clear about what I’m doing to get the part of me that does want to live as the being called Daria to agree for me to leave mind body

  221.  #221Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Daria @ 210 – yes, the divorce is good news. The “bad news” bit arises from me re-phrasing SLV’s feeling of not wanting to hear unhappy news in Christmas greetings. Perhaps a bad choice of words, on my part.

    So not bad news, but it is sad news. Getting divorced feels both like the saddest thing I have ever done, and like the bravest, and the scariest, and the best thing I have ever done. Yes, I am choosing a new life, on my own Siren-y terms. Yes, that is exciting. I am free to fly, and to CD, and to become more fully myself. But I also fall into an abyss and cry when I think about Christmas holidays, and New Year. Cos I’ve cut myself adrift from a situation that was killing me, yes, but also gave some security. Now it’s not killing me so much, but I feel a whole mix of insecurity as well. And there is real bereavement grief as well.

    It’s confusing. It’s the right thing. But it feels like a whole soup of different things, not only one aspect.

    Maybe it’s the whole soup of things that make it so very hard for me to decide how to word it, if at all, in Christmas greetings to people, cos I am trying for authenticity and feeling messages in how I word things this year.

    I will get there, but I have spent a whole day going round in circles and feeling really stuck about it. Maybe I need to go off and do some real riffing about it, to get to the bottom of it, so I can feel happy about how I do the Christmas cards. I won’t be happy if I do nothing. And I won’t be happy if I use words that aren’t really right either.

    Catch up later xxx

  222.  #222Daria on December 12, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    I feel a bit vulnerable to announce that x and I have split. We’ve learned much from each other and our roads now part. This time feels both sad and hugely hopeful and fresh… as we move towards our happiness .

  223.  #223LonePlum on December 12, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Her parents told her she could do what she wanted.
    She believed them.
    She said she would be an actress.
    And she is.
    She is a cinema actress and television actress and a theater actress and a singer.
    She is ambassador for the UNICEF.

    At her home, when a child, she had to pull chairs against the walls to turn the light on.
    Her family did not pull the rag from under her feet, they did not do things instead of her.
    They did not assume she could not do it as well as they do.
    They let her find solutions on her own; and they told her she’ll find a solution for everything, she will have all she wants.

    She met that music comedy director who said
    “Play great characters, not small people, ever. You will become great in the industry”

    And he gave her a part in his music comedy.
    She could not look at herself in the mirror during her first rehearsal.
    He said:
    “look at yourself, admire yourself, it is the others who don’t dance like you, it is not you who don’t dance like them”

    That’s how she started her career, dancing and singing among long legged thin model type of girls and boys.

    She has had a good career.
    In France little girls say:
    “I want to be Mimi Matty when I am grown up”
    Me too.
    I try, tough, I try.
    I guess I still need to get myself new bearings.

    At some stage, she wrote her own one woman show.
    So inspiring, I can watch it in loops.
    At the end of the show, she asked a person at random, among the spectators, to come up on the stage to move a box.
    She did that every night with a different person from the public.
    Night Number 285, she asked that man, he gets on the stage, he moves the box, he kneels in front of her to look at her in the eyes, and they have a flash.
    Love at first sight.
    They never stopped “seeing” each other.
    They got married.
    Her first real love and she was 48.
    He is a restaurant chef and he is 1m86 tall.

    Mimi has always had a smile on her face.
    Her eyes shine.
    Very positive person.
    Before she met her husband, she said in an interview for the television:
    “Yes, I feel sad, at times, I have been waiting for a long time now, but then hope chases sadness away. He is somewhere, I know it, life will put us in the same place someday.”

    She sings:

    What if we’d hurry up
    to try and change it all
    la la la

    Don’t let it beat you down
    It’s your life
    Your choices
    Your ideals
    Get yourself new bearings
    Shake it
    Scrub up to gorgeous
    Stop your war
    Don’t think no more that the world is on your back

    Do what it takes
    Clean the fog off your glasses
    Tattoo the want itself in your skin

    What if we’d hurry up
    to try and change it all
    la la la

    And for eternity
    All our problems swept off
    Sold off for ever

    Re paint your head with colours
    Stop always feeling scared

    Stop diets before your body is wrecked
    Fashion victim
    You are way too old for such silliness
    One way tix for a bad trip
    If you feel depressed
    Take the veil off your face
    Tattoo laughter itself in your skin

    What if we’d hurry up
    to try and change it all
    la la la

    And for eternity
    All our problems swept off
    Sold off for ever
    Re paint your head with colours
    Stop always feeling scared


  224.  #224Leo on December 12, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Hi Sirens!

    I just read Rori’s new newsletter.
    I totally needed this advice again.
    I spent the weekend at my man’s and it was a lot of fun. But occasionally I got this feeling of not getting enough attention or affection. And then these voices tell me “oh you are ok, he does pay attention to you”.
    I didnt totally fall back into the old patterns and stuff it all down and let myself get down emotionally. But when I felt like this I tried to do something fun. At least I stopped my old behavior.
    But I am still soooo afraid of turning completely into the new behavior. I mean… telling him that I feel sad or mad or upset or angry.
    Maybe he doesnt get why i feel this way. When he asks I am supposed to tell him..but I am always afraid of it, of his reaction.

    No writing it…it sounds so easy. I know what I have to do… Telling him that I feel afraid of his reaction…
    But its just sooo hard for me to go through with this.
    When I tried before he reacted in a weird way. Which was probably cause I couldnt find the right words to describe my feelings and why.

    Now I feel afraid of trying it again….I am afraid of failure and his reaction that it might turn the whole thing worse. And I am afraid that he might think that I am making a big deal out of this or that situation.

    I know I shouldnt care about him there. If i do feel upset or sad and I tell him I am not being a drama queen.
    But its soo hard…..

  225.  #226Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Thanks, Daria. Interesting thoughts. 🙂

  226.  #227Jas on December 12, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Hello Sirens and Goddesses! Soo I have a question about online dating..maybe one of you could help me? If I see profiles of guys I think are cute is it Leaning Forward to send them a wink? Or do I have to let guys do it first? What does Rori recommend…thanks!

  227.  #228Dorothea on December 12, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    i believe rori suggests that we do not wink and lean completely back.

  228.  #229Jas on December 12, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Dorothea – Ok, I wasn’t sure..glad I asked. thanks!

  229.  #230Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    I haven’t always been like this — in fact, I’ve only been like this for about a year —

    Feeling like I am just waiting, waiting, for a man to arrive so that I can start my real life.

    I am wondering what has changed. Why am I like this now? I used to be relatively happy living my life, pursuing my goals and dreams, contributing to the world, doing things I enjoy, etc.

    Why now do I putter around the house, disinterested in almost everything — everything except checking the internet and my phone to see if my man has arrived.

    I feel vulnerable writing this on here.

    I have read Rori’s and everyone’s advice and ideas about finding purpose, joy, etc. without a man — all great stuff. And I lived that way for a long time.

    What changed?

    Why can’t I do that anymore?

    I feel frustrated.

    This afternoon I’ve done a few household chores — and checked for messages in between…. and I noticed that I feel a sense of waiting, waiting, wandering and waiting….

    “What are the things you want to be doing?” I asked myself.

    “Well,” I answered myself, “I want to get back to doing yoga, and finish my book . . . ”

    “Why don’t you do those things right now?”

    “Now? Oh, now’s not a good time.”

    “You always say that. When will it be a good time? There’s no good reason not to do it now. You could go in the kitchen and do a few yoga poses and you would feel good.”

    “Nah. Oh, I just heard a click — gotta go check my incoming email.”

    “That’s all you do. Listen for clicks. Wait for your prince charming.”

    “I know. It seems pathetic. I feel sad and frustrated about it. I don’t know why I’m like this now.”

    I notice a judgment there: “pathetic.”

    I am judging my behavior as pathetic.

    What would happen if I don’t judge it as pathetic?

    It’s not pathetic. (Just trying that out — I don’t really believe it’s not pathetic.)

    How do I change my belief/judgment?

    I choose to believe my behavior is not pathetic?

    I love this part of me that I am judging as behaving pathetically.

    I love you. I love you even though you are acting this way.

    I accept you and embrace you, little lucy.

    I feel like I’m getting somewhere with this… on the verge of a shift… but not quite there….

    Insights and observations welcome from other sirens. Thank you.

  230.  #231Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    I’m noticing a veiled judgment: “You shouldn’t be the way you are right now.”

    I heard that a lot growing up.



    The way you are.

    Be different than you are.

    How you are right now is not good.


    Be the way I want you to be.

    Be like other kids.

    Be normal.

    That’s right. That’s good. Just like that. Stay like that. Always.

    Don’t be that weird way. I don’t like that. I don’t know what to do with it.

    I don’t know what to do with it either, mom. *sad face, tears in throat*

  231.  #232Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I feel better now I have typed and printed a short letter to go in with my Christmas cards this year, telling people, in feeling messages about my separation and impending divorce. It includes both happy and sad feelings, and that I have started divorce proceedings (rather than a passive “we are getting divorced.)

    I felt so stuck about it, because, somewhere, I felt that I was not allowed to voice my feelings about something to do with my Ex and I. He would not want me voicing my feelings of sadness and RELIEF about this, but this is my truth. He tried so hard to silence my voice, literally and metaphorically. I felt I lost my voice so much.

    I even lost my singing voice – literally. For the last 8 years I haven’t been able to sing. And often, even my speaking voice has been affected, husky and croaky. My poor body was trying to tell me. But my voice is coming back now, in every sense.

    I went to a voice and singing coach last week. And found myself hearing his view that, in light of recent experiences, it was no wonder my breath had been taken away, or that I had lost parts of my physical voice as well.

    And he helped me to realise I’ve been judging my poor, cracked singing voice, without realising that it was doing the best it could under the circumstances. And that to love it and accept it as it is, whatever it is, is the way forward and will release it again. It so reminds me of Rori’s gratefulness dialogues.

    And best of all, I was so moved when he shared a quotation that “every sound is sacred, somewhere.”

    So I’ve let myself find my voice to write the Christmas letter I want to write, rather than let myself be dominated by my absent Ex’s ideas about what would be appropriate to write!! I found my true voice for doing this. Yes!! And it feels good. It feels good.

  232.  #233Daria on December 12, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Lucy – nice. I can dig that step

    I’ve been reading a blog hyperbole and a half, and I like the frank humor and unapologeticnesd of this girl about herself

    It’s inspiring

    I feel tired my head hurts a lol bit I feel a bit dizzy

    I feel scared when my parents argue

    I feel terrified

    I forgiveudelf for terrifying myself for forgetting to take loving actions and use living words with myself for ignoring myself for judging myself on how much money I make and to his I co
    Form to surround culture beliefs

    I forgive myself for shutting me out


  233.  #234Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Lorelei, your vocal coach sounds wonderful! I wish my daughter could find a coach like that. She used to have a beautiful singing voice but lost it bc of her lung disease. I still think the right kind of coach could help her restore some of it.

  234.  #235tinque on December 12, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Lucy – I can only speak for myself, and I feel you. I understand this feeling. I have been there in spades.

    To be honest I don’t think I ever really had a “full” life before re-finding K again. I felt as you seem to feel now, waiting, wishing, hoping, feeling a lack, a void. I felt this throughout most of my marriage.

    I felt this keenly after I left. I even felt this when we found each other again though it was only two weeks after having left. I had a lot of work to do on me. I had NO idea how much until trauma, for me, within the relationship caused me to go on an even deeper and more profound journey.

    I may be an exception, I don’t know, but this relationship is beyond what most have. I was able to do the intense work needed while still growing us as a couple.

    So Lucy, I think it’s okay to be acting as you are and feeling as you are.

    Love is what drives most humans, maybe all if they’re being honest, the connection, the wanting to feel like you belong somewhere with a special someone.

    Thank you for being so brave in saying this, how you really feel,

  235.  #236AmberS on December 12, 2010 at 4:00 pm


    Maybe this is the year of rest? The year the fields lay fallow and no crop is sown….

    1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Agriculture) (of land) left unseeded after being ploughed and harrowed to regain fertility for a crop

    2. (of an idea, state of mind, etc.) undeveloped or inactive, but potentially useful

    I know you know the definition already- I looked it up for me and was surprised by #2.


  236.  #237Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    @214 Lorelei
    “… what is keeping you living vicariously . . . It all feels more exciting when we get our hands a little dirty . . well, no innuendo intended here . .but who knows, for you, what might happen…”:

    Maybe “learning vicariously” is more correct. I am living wholely but no LI attached. I’m taking care of myself right now. Maybe in six months or a year I’ll have some dates.

    “Without Rori and without this blog I wouldn’t have had the faintest idea where to begin. .”

    True; there are a couple of others also: Evan Marc Katz and Terri Hernon MacDonald also have some interesting things to say on their blogs. And inspiring words!

    I just returned from performance at dance school. At reception after, I was checking out the older men but each and every one was “attached.” LOL Well…it was a family kind of thing and I really wasn’t in the mood for flirting.

    You are right, I need some flirty clothes… Maybe summer clothes…we shall see…

    Most of my time there I was thinking about coming home and “window shopping” online. 😆 One of the school officials had made the unfortunate announcement that people in audience could stand up (I was shouting in my brain, “Oh, no. Not good.” )

    So even though I had bought a ticket, I missed some parts because the guy in front of me was about 6’4″ and he kept bobbing up and down. The women in the row in front of him was shorter but “thick.” 😆

    Oh, well. I have a good sense of humour. I had told the usher I was disabled and could not stand for long periods of time so at least I got a seat…and I saw the part I especially came to see.

    I got to daydream and hear nice music. 😀 and afterwards talk with some people I hadn’t seen in a while. And the reception buffet was nice.

    Seeing all the dancers, inspired me to work on my body also. So the afternoon was OK. But true, Lorelei, you never know what will happen. Or, I think, who I might meet; I am keeping that in mind.


  237.  #238AmberS on December 12, 2010 at 4:12 pm


    189 is BRILLIANT!!!!!!

    Thank you!

  238.  #239Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Thank you Daria, Tinque, Amber. Your words feel healing. <3

  239.  #240Daria on December 12, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Lucy – What about forgiving myself for doing those things as mom to me in that scene

    I did that the other day

    I was surprised and like cool! Cuz I was tapping into thoughts and feelings and images I wasn’t aware of.,, I was really being my mom

    Feeling guilt for putting me to bed and ignoring my baby for these other people at the party

    Mmm. I did the what if it’s possible to forgive myself

    And them it worked! To my surprise

    Yah! Them suddenly I got to party in real life

  240.  #241Daria on December 12, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Amber – I feel all Brant and brilliant.

    I am a brilliant!

  241.  #242Cherie on December 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Hi, yes the gift giving is a pain! As an adult I feel lucky to be part of a family that does not care about gift-giving but just loves to get together for the day. We are going to have lunch at my sister’s house … no presents required. We will bring food to share and enjoy being together.

    However …. I do think its hard to carry this philosophy over to kids. My mother did not believe in gifts … even when we were kids. This meant that we did not always get birthday presents or Christmas presents. Sometimes we did get a small present, just one simple thing. Do you want to know how this felt to me as a child? Awful. I would dread birthdays and Christmas because it wasn’t like other kids’ birthdays and Christmases, it was just another day but perhaps we would see some relatives.

    Give the kids presents and watch their delight as the room fills with gawdy paper and ribbons and crappy stuff.

  242.  #243AmberS on December 12, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    ***profanity warning***

    “There is no such thing as bad language” Lewis Black

    “…but the word sh!t makes them cry”

    OMG this rant makes me laugh SO hard.

  243.  #244Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Daria – @ 218 – this feels sad and positive both at the same time . . do you feel other things as well, or evenly balanced between the two.

    Glad you shared it, even though you feel vulnerable.


  244.  #245Cherie on December 12, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Although perhaps this year I will take my girls on a little holiday, the 3 of us … that is a perfect present. I want time just with my family. I want to focus on the people who I truly love and cherish more than anything. I want them to know I love them and am here for them. Their father has just told them they have a new brother! Like that, out of the blue … we don’t even know what relationship he has with the mother. My girls are shaken! They don’t want to talk to him but they don’t understand what this means … is he doing the right thing by his new family? He has a regular job now, which he never did, my girls want to know what it all means, they think they have even less of their dad than they did before.

    I must show my girls I love them for Christmas, which I can’t do with a silly present. I will give them my time and attention and help them to smile.

    And I really just have stopped thinking about men at all right now.

  245.  #246Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Lucy @ 226, 227

    I recognise and identity with your feelings here. If we are made for love and relationship, it’s not so surprising that we ache for love and relationship at times.

    Thank you for sharing your honest feelings, and for loving and accepting your feelings enough to honour them in this way.

    I find that it is when I avoid my feelings or try to skirt round them that they become more painful and entrenched. And the more I actually dare to face them and feel them, the more they shift to something else.


  246.  #247Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Strange the things that connect in our minds…. This song/scene came to my mind as a picture of how I feel right now — the doll on the music box, from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

    Watching it made me smile.

    AND it made me remember identifying strongly with her feelings even when I watched it as a child.

  247.  #248Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    SLV @ 233 – your sense of humour shines bright and clear on her – you are often very funny, which I really appreciate. The performance sounds a mixed experience of quite good and a bit disappointing or frustrating.

    But I feel hopeful that the vicarious learning will seep out more and more and become lived experience. Flirtier, feminine clothes do help – as you know – I remember something about a flippy Tina Turner skirt a while back! Dressing the part ( as much as I can) helps me so much. Go for it.

    For a while l watched and listened on here (mostly while my marriage was breaking down in the earlier part of the year). My vicarious learning then is starting to pay off now that I feel ready to date again. But it was realising that there were actual new practices i could learn, that (in part) helped me to leave my marriage. I would have left anyway, but it was realising that there might be a new life afterwards that helped me leave.

    There is noooo rush. You’ll know when you are ready. xxx

  248.  #249Rosa on December 12, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    How Inspiring LonePlum . I just loved the song.

    I am currently reading all the links and songs for healing !! Mimie is extraordinary.

    I felt immediately calm and OPEN in her (virtual) presence. She really radiates authenticity , even over youtube.

    Maybe this is how it works with men too?

    I just spent 2 hours in the sun (27 deg) surrounded by flowering subtropical shrubs , huge trees and water, “swimming” as best I could , reading Abraham Hicks and feeling happy and better So what if the swimming resembled a frenzied moth moonwalking !

    MY huge belly wound coped well and so did my chest and arm.

    I feel excited to be healing 🙂
    Much better than yesterday.

  249.  #250Rosa on December 12, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Lorelei , I so resonate with your loss of voice!!!
    Mind you , Di lorelei being the original Sirens, I am sure you have an amazing seductive song within!

    I lost my voice too , in 2002 after separation. I sang joyfully in public in shows and ensembles right through my marriage and when I was separated, I stopped.

    I stopped because I felt not loved. I couldnt sing when i felt not lovable, not “enough”. I lost the joy of my art and Iost the gift. Fast forwad through 8 silent years to 2010 I sang a little in a small choir, but after a few sessions they were pushing me into the soloist role (yes I was always leading lady in the past) and I left. I guess I still am working on self love 🙂

    Finding a coach who understands the mind effects on singing is a wonderful start to reclaiming your voice. I am so glad you have started , you will not be silenced for long:)

    I am looking for a coach for myself in the New Year . Its set on my agenda, along with swimming with dolphins , NLP trainers training , visit with friend in London..all SELF DIRECTED goals ..yaaayyy!!!!

    So Lorelei, Much blessed happiness with your singing from now on !

  250.  #251AmberS on December 12, 2010 at 6:37 pm


    You sound GREAT!


  251.  #252Daria on December 12, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Lorelei – lol!

    218 was my message for You of what I’d write … Haha

    I feel so warm that you noticed it and felt for me

  252.  #253Rachel on December 12, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Lucy #226 … I have tears in my eyes because this is ME! I fight so hard to focus on other things … and I have made progress in that I am no longer focused on ONE certain man.

    But, I feel such an aching void. I feel no excitement to do anything I used to love. I used to write and sing and mentor young girls and teach and cook beautiful dishes and host friends…

    But I feel like it’s all pointless. EVen when I force myself to move and exercise and go out, my heart always aches. The ache hasn’t left for over a year.

    I feel like I am hurting my children. I still do many of the same things with them, but I know that there is an “air’ of heaviness and sadness around me that I can’t seem to shake.

    I so deeply long to be WITH my love. I know he is out there and I am doing SO much work on myself and feel really ready to be with him.

    Like you, Tinque, I feel that I could now continue to grow with him… after 2 years alone. But I am still alone. And I cry far too many nights. And spend far too many days wandering aimlessly … waiting for the next email or text or call.

    And I, too, feel pathetic.

    I try to change my thoughts, to focus on all of the blessings I do have, to imagine how happy I’ll be when I’m with him, to forget about men altogether … but always this ache and emptiness. Even when I’m taking care of myself and doing things I “enjoy.”


    Thank you for sharing, Lucy. I don’t feel as alone now.

  253.  #254Simply Shannon on December 12, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Lucy, I’ve felt much the same. I appreciate you writing your feelings out. I literally had a similar thought this morning about being a slave to my computer. I’m considering a fast from internet like I did for Lent last year. No internet after 6pm.

    I wondered how you might feel considering a man fast for a month or two. Take down all profiles on dating sites and otherwise unplug from the dating scene? I know it sounds scary like what the heck am I gonna do, but for me, once I started it, I felt relieved. Then surprisingly, I felt scared to start dating again. What do you think?

  254.  #255Simply Shannon on December 12, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Tinque, thank you for sharing your perspective! For me, what rings loud and clear is that relationship or not, it’s US taking care of US that matters. Similar to the belief that being married will somehow magically fix my unhappiness. So not true. I believe I’ve said something similar before, but basically marriage doesn’t fix anything. Marriage amplifies everything! If I’m sad now, I’m gonna be a sad married person. For a season the sadness will go away (love high) but eventually that wears out and my old feelings will come right back.

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, starred in the sequel! 😉

    Thank you for being you! Shannon

  255.  #256Simply Shannon on December 12, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Daria, I cannot believe you have been posting Hyperbole and a Half! One of my favs! This post is the one that got me hooked on it. Hilarious!! This post is ME. No doubt.

  256.  #257Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    @243: Lucy says:
    “…came to my mind as a picture of how I feel right now — the doll on the music box, from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang…”

    Thanks for posting this vid, Lucy. Adorable. I haven’t seen/heard this bit in a while and I enjoyed watching it.

    It seems kind of Christmasy with the costumes, kind of like the ones today in “The Nutcracker”–funny, my little granddaughter and the other dancers in her group wore their hair like the Truly Scrumptious character, long braids looped up–so cute.


  257.  #258Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    @241: Cherie says:
    “I must show my girls I love them for Christmas, which I can’t do with a silly present. I will give them my time and attention and help them to smile. ”

    You might also enjoy giving some silly gifts. I don’t know your girls’s ages but they might like them.

    Also giving something you already own that belonged to you or their father is fun too. One Christmas my brother and I gave our children the little wooden sleds we had played with when we were children.

    My father put new coats of shellac on them and we decorated with red bows. It was lots of fun, especially for the grown-ups. 😆 We gave the kids “real time” gifts too. My son has since passed his on to his children and my DDIL has passed on her teddy bear.


  258.  #259Senior Lady Vibe on December 12, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    @241 Cherie
    @ me says: 😆 “My son has since passed his on to his children and my DDIL has passed on her teddy bear.”

    A little story of passed on teddy bear grief:

    I was saving my son’s first teddy bear to pass on to his children but during a household move, it got lost with his first toy, family Christmas ornaments all together in a box that probably went into the trash.

    I cried and cried but it couldn’t be recovered. It was a teddy bear handmade by a friend when my son was an infant. The teddy bear was made from the plush furry lining of a car coat I had worn to college football games when my husband and I were dating.

    Poor teddy bear… 😥


  259.  #260Lucy on December 12, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Thanks, everyone, for your responses to my post.

    Shannon, yes, I did a “man fast” for a couple months a little while ago.

    Although I agree that marriage doesn’t “magically fix unhappiness,” I don’t believe “If I’m sad now, I’m gonna be a sad married person.”

    I believed that for awhile, because it seemed like the “right” thing to believe . . . but, now, today, my heart is telling me otherwise.

    And that feels good and hopeful.

  260.  #261Brenda on December 12, 2010 at 10:21 pm




  261.  #262Brenda on December 12, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    I was stewing all day about wanting to somehow do damage control about how I was so invasive in the past. I finally texted him tonight, asking if we could talk on the phone for about 5 minutes so I could clear the air.

    He texted back that he didn’t have sound privacy. I said I understand. Is there some other time I could call him and discuss it? I said texting feels so impersonal. He said maybe in a little bit. So I just waited 30-45 min, and he called me!

    I expressed to him sincerely about feeling so bad that I damaged his trust by being disrespectful of his boundaries, and I explained why. He said, “I hope you can receive my forgiveness, and I understand that you’re not perfect. I hope you forgive me, too, for the mistakes I made last year.” It was beautiful! I reassured him that I do, and he said thank you so sweetly!

    Then he went on to talk about what’s going on in my life and his! I felt so happy that he’s moving home, and he doesn’t seem to mind at all that I’m going to “his” church! I told him what a wonderful church it is, one of the best I ever went to!

    I told him all his issues aside (schizophrenia), I think very highly of him, and I value his friendship.

    He said thank you, and his whole attitude was very receptive. I feel like at last everything is back on track!

  262.  #263Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Daria @ 240 – oh, that makes me laugh – I didn’t realise it was for me, as obviously I thought it was you. Even though, I hadn’t picked up that you were with someone to the extent that you would be making an anouncement like that!!! And of course, it is perfect.

  263.  #264Lorelei on December 12, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Rosa @ 246 – thanks!! So good to hear how well you are

  264.  #265Leo on December 12, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Hi Brenda!
    I feel so happy for you that your changes (e.g. leaning back) finally pay off. And I hope you can enjoy it!


  265.  #266Daria on December 12, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Daria – beaming!

  266.  #267Daria on December 12, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Feeling sinking sadness when I hear a belief that feels bad

    Feeling angry at lucys dismissal of shannons self affirmation

    Feel sad that after all work I did on loving myself a part of me still doesn’t trust that it’s happiness comes from me ( or else I wouldn’t be triggered )

    Feel forgiving of part of me that wants to be different from me, wants nothing to do with me, fights being part of me, won’t forgive me

    And I love my part no matter what it does

    Lovingy rebelling part

    Feeling heartbroken

    Inviting the part of me that wants to be different to come together with the part that Diesnt and discuss whether they might better accomplish their goals , working together .

    And loving all my parts no matter what they do,

  267.  #268Rosa on December 12, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    Rachel (and Lucy and Tinque via the follow ups)….

    “I have tears in my eyes because this is ME! I fight so hard to focus on other things … and I have made progress in that I am no longer focused on ONE certain man.

    But, I feel such an aching void. I feel no excitement to do anything I used to love. I used to write and sing and mentor young girls and teach and cook beautiful dishes and host friends…”

    Rachel , oh Rachel its me too , and its all of us some of the time , but none of us all of the time..

    its baby steps back to our fullness of being, to find again our Richness of Heart..

    We women are so precious, because we LOVE with our heart .

    Lone Plums wondeful link to the French song by Mimie is timely .

    ” If you feel depressed take the veil off your face”@219

    This so powerful

    The veil that hides us from the world ..when we express our feelings we throw off the veil and show ourselves to the world – we RADIATE ourselves…We lighten , we interact we are freed.

    AND we uncloud our vision , we SEE life and feel the warm sun and the light enters our eyes..
    Depression is no more…

    So to all beautiful Sirens whose empty hearts are aching, i invite you to throw the veils off your faces ,
    speak your truth , show yourselves and be warmed and filled.

  268.  #269Rosa on December 12, 2010 at 11:37 pm


    “I don’t talk about myself much unless it’s a tip or resource to pass along or some fun I’m having.

    The weasel situation wasn’t even a proper relationship, it was an “unfortunate attachment” of the imaginery relationship variety. Too embarassing to discuss. I wasn’t thinking about finding a relationship only spending time with someone I liked. ”

    I invite you to share whatever of those embarrassing , painful , abandoned feelings you feel comfortable feeling and sharing..that is the point of the posts.
    Feeling and expressing without choking anything back.

    Its also about triggering ourselves and learning , as i understand it. So if you feel triggered recollecting the embarrassment or the disablement , the tears alone in your bed , ill and sad ..thats ok.

    I am so proud of you that you are feeling these things and expressing them and planning on wearing flippy skirts!!

  269.  #270Rosa on December 12, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    My eyes are adjusting to the light and I love the feeling of wind in my hair …without the veil

  270.  #271Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:23 am

    feel pissed that daria thinks i dismissed shannon’s self-affirmation. ugh.

  271.  #272Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:40 am

    i feel excited about everything i learned tonight… and that my new hunches are supported by research (i was surprised!)… and that the things i learned are a bright new path leading me where i want to go … and i feel happy and excited about the possibility of writing an e-book about it all. i also feel afraid of triggering sirens with this post. i feel accepting of the fact that ppl are triggered at times by my thoughts words and ideas. i feel passionate about being true to myself and following my

  272.  #273Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:43 am


  273.  #274Daria on December 13, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Lucy – I don’t think u did… That’s what it feels like though… It’s still unclear for me to express what it is that feels bad about it. I am Gina keep practicing because it feels important to my life interactions

    Basically it seems like many times when I offer u help I feel unheard and I’ve felt vad seeing ur response to other posters. It reminds me of a spoiled child. I am very convinced after last weeks experiences in healing that I am Only getting triggered because a part of me behaves the same way.

    I am trying to access it. This part of me dismisses my attempts to help her, says only a man can help her, tries to cover up that she thinks she’s better than others by playing the victim and insusting she’s different. She’s nit me, not like me. She’s different. It feels frustrating to interact with her because she always rejects me and she’s sad and complaint about being lonely yet rejects me. I feel confused on what to do. I embrace her anywAy .

    What do u want part. I want to be left alone. I want to suffer.

    What is the goal of suffering part?

    Suffering makes me good enough. Suffering mAkes me safe. Suffering makes me worrhy of standing up fir myself.

    Ok. Thank u

    I don’t like You. You’re nit good enough. I don’t want to be part of You.

    What is the purpose of not being part of me?

    So that I can be better so that other kids will like me.

    What’s the purpose of other kids liking u?

    So I won’t be lonely. So I’ll have people to play with ( unlike You)


    Thank u.

    What’s the purpose of playing with people?

    So I’ll be happy and feel good.

    Ok thanks.


    I invite u part.,, if u want to.., to get together with the part of me who wants to embrace u… And discuss whether it might not better accomplish both it goals, by working together.

    And I love both of u no matter what u do .

  274.  #275Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:55 am

    rosa, thank you.

  275.  #276Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 1:17 am

    daria, i feel bad that you have so many bad feelings and negative thoughts around me. i feel sad. i feel sad that your interpretation of your (my?) behavior is negative instead of positive ( “spoiled child,” “victim,” “better than,” etc.). i feel glad that ppl are the same in most ways and different in some ways. i feel confused by your bad feelings around the “different” part. i feel glad that ppl are different sometimes and come up with new ideas, stories, inventions, solutions etc bc of it.

  276.  #277Rosa on December 13, 2010 at 1:23 am

    I have been playing with EMDR /NLP stuff and deliberately triggering myself with thoughts of G-Man .
    Then I move my eyes around and its amazing how UN fixated I now feel and how UN traumatised as well.

    I even feel totally comfortable more often than not and at least comfortable the rest of the time.

    I love hypnotic language…. 🙂

    There is a whole thing about agapanthii as well. I am playing in my brain loops and fiddling with the soft ware and its amazing me how GOOD I feel when I think agapanthus (or frangipani ) blue expanding energy instead of old shitty brown tight shut down pain stuff.

    This comes from Richard Bandler .


  277.  #278Katnina on December 13, 2010 at 1:56 am

    I feel sad.
    and weird
    and neglected.
    mr. fireman came to my aerial dance performance friday night. he was super amazed, he told me several times (he’d never seen me perform). i am so happy he was there. he kept staring at me throughout the night, as i was filming my friends’ performances once my routine was over. i felt his energy coming towards me. then he came out to dinner with my other friends and paid for my dinner (wouldnt let me take my wallet out of my bag). then drove me home and kissed my cheek and hugged me goodbye. he kept touching me through the night, putting his hand on my leg at dinner, grabbing my hand to lead me across the street, rubbing my back as i got out of the car. it felt really good to be around him.
    i LEANED BACK. tried to do some feeling messages.
    i felt disappointed when he drove away. i wanted more time with him. i wanted him to kiss me. i felt sad when i walked into my apartment alone. thank goodness my puppy was there to greet me.

    then yesterday i got in a fight with a good friend. i think she is being a brat, complaining her fiance’s parents arent giving them ‘enough money’ as their wedding gift. i think a gift is a gift. you can’t resent it for not being as much as you wanted. you can’t feel you are ‘owed’ more just because you are getting married and they spend a lot on themselves. gifts are gifts. not obligations. this REALLY triggered me. we fought more. it was awful. she spoke with me in a very harsh tone. i told her i would not be spoken to in that way, i couldnt do it. she changed her tone. kept complaining. wouldnt listen to my reasoning.
    finallly i gave up. ‘oh, yeah, you are right, thats not fair.’ i couldnt fight anymore. now i think i should have said ‘i feel uncomfortable, i dont want to talk about this anymore.’
    ewwww i feel gross about that whole conversation. i feel awful talking about money with friends. i should have stood up for myself and my beliefs instead of caving.

    then tonight i was on facebook and phishman was logged in and posting pictures from his weekend. and he still hasn’t responded to my reply to him from Thursday (in which i asked a question-not very sireny i guess). I feel turned off and weird and neglected.

    on a positive note, random guy i met sharing a cab asked me out for Friday. so that is good. i dont feel excited about the date though. just kind of whatever.
    and guy i went on a date with last weekend texted me friday night to ask if i am around next weekend. didnt respond since i was performing but wrote him back yesterday that i had a performance the night before that i felt happy about, and yes i am around next weekend. havent heard back from him.

  278.  #279Katnina on December 13, 2010 at 2:01 am

    i want to curl up in a ball with my dog on my sofa and stay there for a while.
    i feel mad at myself for feeling so sad about this stuff when it’s not big and important stuff.
    almost feel like i am doing what i got so mad at my friend for doing…blowing things out of proportion, losing perspective.
    i don’t know.
    maybe that is why i got so triggered.
    maybe i am triggering myself now.

    i dropped to my knees.
    and i felt RESENTMENT. I have a lot of bottled up resentment towards my friend. i am jealous that she is getting married and i am not. i am angry that she cannot appreciate that she is getting married and is instead focusing on money. i am ANGRY when i see entitlement like that. it feels selfish to me. and greedy.
    i never want to be like that.
    i hope i am never like that.
    this feels heavy in my lungs. feels like my breathing is stunted. like everything is heavy and weighted down.
    i dont want to lose a friend.
    she is a good friend in other ways. very supportive of so much.
    but money may have to be a boundary for me.
    ok that feels better.
    if i set up a boundary ‘i feel uncomfortable. i dont want to talk about money.’ maybe we can still be friends.
    that feels lighter. like there is less weight on me.

    i want to focus on the good things:
    i have a beautiful dog who i love with all my heart.
    i have wonderful friends who truly care for me.
    i have parents who, despite their flaws, are good people and would help me if i asked their help.
    i have a sister who loves me.
    i have a good job that i am proud of.
    i support myself.
    i am a talented dancer.
    i am graceful in the air.
    i am creative.
    i am compassionate.
    i pursue my passions.
    i am loving.
    i am curious.
    i am dynamic.
    i am a baby Siren.
    i am learning.
    i am opening myself up. and that is scary. but i am opening up anyways.

  279.  #280Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:23 am

    OMG I just had a nifgtmare

  280.  #281Ella on December 13, 2010 at 3:53 am

    Things are getting a little tricky/challenging for me with Mr Barman.

    He asked me to go see him when he finished work yesterday. I am still a bit ill with a cold and said I was not feeling that well and he said we could do something relaxing like watching a film, and that he would take good care of me.

    He asked me to drive to him when he finished work (5 mins down the road). I said I would feel more comfortable if he came and picked me up which he did.

    Well after wtaching the film and talking a lot he asked me if I would stay. I said I did not think so as was still feeling ill and did not feel good about staying with him when I would just cough all night and be all snotty – not very romantic! And I kinda wanted my own bed.

    He said he really wanted me to stay and that he wanted a chance to take care of me and he didn’t care about the coughing and would make me honey and lemon drinks.

    Well as he is the masculine and he makes the decisions I stayed, I felt ok to stay.

    Well as the night wore on I became more unwell and realised I did not feel comfortable. My nose was stuffy and my throat sore, I could not sleep and felt awful and also not relaxed as I was worried about being too noisy.

    It was about 4.30am.

    I felt worried about waking him to take me home as he had work the next day so I lay there for a bit procratinating, but had that tale tale feeling of not putting myself first or taking care of my needs/health and not being true to myself and these days it feels to awful to do for any length of time.

    So eventually I woke him. He was slow to wake and I said I felt really ill and would he take me home?

    He said yes but then kept kinda falling back to sleep. Then he said could I wait for a couple of hours?

    I said NO I needed to go home now.

    I found myself beginning to apologise and be ‘extra nice’ but I caught myself and stopped. That didn’t feel good.

    By this time I was so tired and ill I didn’t care about anything just wanted to go home. I think feeling messages went out the window but I was determined to look after myself and my health so I just kept repeating my request for him to take me home.

    Eventually he did. He was really sleepy and the atmosphere on the drive home was decidedly icy, which did not make me feel very looked after (he had been doing so beautifully well up till this point).

    Anyway he dropped me home and neither of us said anything on the drive home. This was much easier for me than it has been before cus I felt kinda angry that I wasn’t being looked after (well I suppose I was but I could sense he was p*ssed about having to get up).

    When we arrived at my house I said ‘thank you’ gave him a peck on the lips (maybe shouldn’t have but it felt too cold not to) and left.

    He said ‘see you later’ and then he drove off.

    I think I have a mixed bag with him. I have had times with him before where he has not looked after me at all (well 1 time really). But I told him how I felt and he changed and has been all super step up and taking good care of me till last night.

    I think he has some toxic qualities, there are many things that are not perfect about him, however I do see them. I am just watching right now. I am not sure if any of them are red flags or just toxic qualities. He certianly generally treats me very well however there is definitely something still very ‘little boy attitude’ left about him, although he does not get to be this way with me… and the situation he is in now is kinda facilitating him being a proper man.

    Generally around him recently I have felt great. If slightly cautious as I don’t really know what this is yet and my instincts tell me he holds some of my old patterns for me if I am not careful, so I have to watch myself and my approach.

    Well anyway I am going to take care of me. I am not going to try to ‘fix’ this situation in any way.

    I may or may not say how I felt about last night depending on whether I feel I want/need to. Part of me feels I might just let it go of it if everything else feels ok… maybe i will just say it felt weird travelling in the car like that and the atmosphere felt uncomfortable.

  281.  #282Ella on December 13, 2010 at 3:54 am

    Daria re 276 – hope u r ok honni!

  282.  #283Ella on December 13, 2010 at 4:15 am

    Ok part 2 of the tricky situation.

    Last night Mr Barman also said he was falling madly in love with me!!!

    Wow – OMG! Scary stuff right? But kinda WOW like YAY – GOOD stuff too… Happy happy Siren magic… and I have feelings for him too.

    He has been asking me for a while if I will be with him and I have kinda said some stuff around not wanting to commit to one man until it is a proper lifelong comittment or marriage, however I do not think he is really hearing me.

    After he told me how he felt last night he asked me how I felt and whether I thought I could ever fall in love with him… well heck I just didn’t know what to say…

    I mean yes I think I could…

    I don’t really know how I feel… I am still trying to figure this one out…

    so I went kinda squirmy and didn’t say much except something a bit lame about not really knowing what love is…

    He said it can be anything that I want it to be. I said well maybe I already love you then (in a light/teasing kind of way) …

    and he said that was so good to hear about.

    He said he felt silly to tell me how he felt and kinda terrified! Wow it just felt so good that he was being so open with his feelings for me.

    He has said he loved me once before, a few weeks ago, but we were drunk at the time and it was still very new so I dismissed it.

    But now I am feeling kinda panicked.

    I obviously need to do some kind of version of the no g.friend speech again but I feel frightened. Of him being angry… and of losing what I am experiencing with him.

    But I don’t want to fall into the g.friend trap and I am currently still dating other guys (even if not that enthusiastically I am staying open and still arranging dates). And I do want to be honest.

    I want to keep dating until someone (maybe him, maybe not) offers me a real committment, probably a ring…

    But this is so far from what ANYONE in the pub, even in our village or area does, I feel terrified of his reaction and being labelled, judged or ‘cast out’.

    I feel pretty sure he is going to feel angry when he knows I am still dating… I think he is just assuming I am not as this is what other girls do.

    How I am going to find the stength to navigate this one?

    What the f*ck am I going to say?

    How can I convey that I do care for him/have feelings for him but I am looking for more committment before I am willing to shut down my other options.

    Also I think we will sleep together soon. We have been seeing each other near enough a month and I feel good with him sexually. I want to.

    And I don’t want to sleep with anyone else.

    How do I make him know it is not about sleeping with others?

    I feel scared and not ‘grown up’ enough to handle this…

    Can’t I hide please?

    I want to work out how to stay on my horse and still stay open to this guy and the possibilities here…

    Please tell me your opinions and feelings on this.

    I think some of you may say it is not real (what he is saying) as it is all still so new, however I feel that he is speaking from his truth and that he does feel he is ‘falling’ for me… whatever that really means…

    But I want to hear what you all think and any suggestions to help me handle this well.

  283.  #284Ella on December 13, 2010 at 4:28 am

    Ok I am going to work this a bit myself in the meantime…

    My feeling around giving him the No G.friend speech… fear…

    Fear of?

    Fear of being rejected….

    which would mean it wasn’t real or he is not able to step up/come through for me…

    So the real fear is that I am hoping for something with him and he may not be that thing… or be able to provide that thing…

    This is off track.

    This is an expectation.

    Siren’s don’t deal with expectations they deal with feelings…

    Just tell him how you feel Ella.

    How do I feel?

    Happy, good, loved, warm, sexual….


    Afraid in case it is not real… worried to test it, worried that he will only want me while it is convenient (or at least not too hard)

    An underlying fear or question that is he giving to me or wanting something from me?

    Which way is the waterwheel turning?

    Well in truth I think it is a bit of both.

    And under all this?

    Back to my fear that I will not really be strong enough to put my happiness first.

    That somehow my life is not good enough and full enough of love without him!

    Well there is the work Ella!

    Got it!

    Ok, so I gotta work on feeling GREAT about my life! So I gotta focus on me, give myself EXTRA love at this time…

    Extra helpings of love, te he!


    And make my life GREAT. So that no matter what happens with him is ok…

    And I gotta be brave… I have got to test it.

    Have to put my happiness first because I made a promise to myself that I would do things differently…

    But what if I am happiest with him?

    And that by doing this I am just being akward?

    Ahhh – NV – I hear ya… Here is a cookie – go munch.

    Being akward/DIVA never puts men off… being easy does!


    You can do it.

    Tell him how you feel. Tell him you want more comittment before closing other dating options down, but that you do have feelings for him!

    I need to go look up the No G.friend speech.

    Is it on here?

    I think it is in Targetting Mr Right…

    Any help on a script greatly appreciated.

    Thanks Sirens.

    Thanks Universe for this chance to grow, experiment and expand.

  284.  #285Ella on December 13, 2010 at 4:47 am

    Possible script:

    “I feel really attracted to you.

    And I feel in some conflict… because I do want to be with you however I made a promise to myself that the next time I commit to a man it will be because he is offering me a committment for life, not just for the next 3-5 years.

    I don’t want another ‘long term’ relationship.

    And I do not feel comfortable about closing off my other options and stopping dating other men until I am offered a life committment, or marriage.

    I do not want to sleep with anyone else.

    What do you think?”

    Sirens – Feel free to comment/re-write….

  285.  #286Ella on December 13, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Lucy re 226 –

    Rori mentions about making space for a man in your life…

    Maybe this is part of how it feels to make space for a man in your life? Maybe this is how the space feels…

    But if you can feel it and accept it you can move past it?

    Just my initial idea….

  286.  #287Ella on December 13, 2010 at 7:07 am


    I feel curious as to whether Beyonce is a Rori fan… some of the language she uses makes me think she is a fan!

    I love this song:

  287.  #288Ella on December 13, 2010 at 7:13 am


    I feel very alone on here today.

    Maybe other Sirens are asleep but it is daytime here.

    I am feeling ill in bed.

    I am feeling stuffy nose/ grumpy.

    REALLY fed up of being ill.

    I feel angry at Mr Barman.

    I feel a bit sick.

    I feel ugly while being ill…

    But I don’t mind. I am cute. I feel cute.

    I feel happy/excited playing on my computer.

    I feel annoyed that I am waiting to hear from Mr Barman and I am in bed so harder to do something different.

    I feel excited as Modern Siren has just arrived and I have been watching that.

    I feel excited about how things are going.

    Maybe this is a chance to practice getting out of my cage WHILST being stuck in a physical situation (in my room in bed in this case today).

  288.  #289Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 7:43 am


    Hi Ella, it’s morning and I’m here to have coffee with you–and biscuits with butter and strawberry jam. Yum…

    I’m going to watch the video you posted.

    I’m happy to see you are working things out.

    You go, siren girl… 😀


  289.  #290Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 7:47 am


    Oh, pooh…

    I clicked on the video link and I got this:
    “This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment. It is not available in your country. ”

    I’m in the U.S.


  290.  #291Ella on December 13, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Hi SLV,

    Yay, I feel happy that you are here!

    Good Morning! xx

  291.  #292Ella on December 13, 2010 at 7:50 am

    SLV – it is Beyonce ‘Upgrade you’

    … maybe you could try googling it if you want to listen..

    I felt intrigued as she seems to use a lot of Rori language…

  292.  #293Lorelei on December 13, 2010 at 7:50 am

    Hi Ella @ 281

    I’m really interested in how you will do the no girlfriend speech…. I haven’t needed to yet, no-one is asking me! But if I go on dating several men, I’m wondering how it will go if the situation comes up.

    Possible tweaking might go . . .

    “We have such a great time together . . I feel very attracted to you . . I would like to go on seeing you . . . .

    [Pause for reaction . .]

    But I don’t want to be just a girlfriend ever again . . . I’m looking for a relationship where both people want life-long commitment. I don’t want to pressurise you. I don’t want to pressurise me. I don’t want to pressurise ‘us’ into something neither of us is ready for. What do you think?

    [Pause for reaction . . ]

    So, until I find myself in a relationship with someone where we both want a ring, I would feel better sleeping with only one man, but also keeping my options open – e.g.if other men ask me, meeting them for coffee or a drink in a light way. What do you think?

    [Pause for reaction . . ]


    I wouldn’t have the courage to say this. I would, at the moment, anyway, feel so anxious that it would infect the whole message. But I admire you for beginning to work out how to do this, Ella. My suggestions are just me trying to figure out how to put the ideas into language for myself.

    I’m trying to get my head round it, because it is so unusual to suggest this situation.

    I suppose the basic points are:
    we have a great time, and
    I don’t want to pressurise you/me/us
    I want the kind of relationship with a ring
    Until someone wants what I want, I don’t want to close down my options.

    What do you think????!!!!

    Are there any women on Siren Island who have been able to give the speech, and then still have the man stepping up while she is seeing other people?

  293.  #294Rachel on December 13, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Hi Ella,

    It is kinda lonely on here today! I’m sorry you’re feeling sick, but it sounds like you’re doing some nice things for yourself WHILST you’re feeling low!

    “That somehow my life is not good enough and full enough of love without him!

    Well there is the work Ella!

    I gotta work on feeling GREAT about my life! So I gotta focus on me, give myself EXTRA love at this time…

    Extra helpings of love, te he!

    And make my life GREAT. So that no matter what happens with him is ok…”

    I have been pondering this for the past few hours. I know in my heart that a man doesn’t “fix” anything and that I need to have a fulfilling, joyful, love-filled life with or without a man.

    I have come SO far in this over the past 18 months or so. I feel proud of the progress I’ve made, but still struggle more than I want.

    It feels good to read your thoughts and to hear how you are caring for yourself today.

    Warm hugs! I’d make some chicken soup and come sit and watch Modern Siren with you if I could! (ha- wouldn’t it be funny if you were right down the road and we didn’t know it!)

  294.  #295Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:01 am


    Thanks so much for your suggestions. I like them.

    I especially like the bits about having a good time together and not wanting to put pressure on the relationship…

    I think I will incorporate those bits.

    Right now I feel terrified thinking about it!

  295.  #296Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Rachel –

    Chicken soup would be lovely, lol.

    Well I am in the UK anyway.

    Thanks for your lovely thoughts. I feel acknowledged.

  296.  #297Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:05 am

    I feel the edges of panic in case he doesn’t call me at all!!

    But that is ok… that feeling is allowed.

    For now I am going to treat it as a NV and give it a cookie.

    If it persists I may sink down onto the floor (or bed) and into the feeling.

    It is good to slow everything right down. There is no rush at all!

    And maybe even some space would be good for me right now!

  297.  #298Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Grrrrr, feel ANGRY now!

    How dare he not call me to see how I am!!

    I’m ill and he doesn’t care (that is my judgement of the situation and by no means the truth at all!)…

    Feel all little girl temper tantrum, stampy feet.

    Especially after last night closeness…

    Grrrrr – swack, smacky bang to him!
    Pooh head.

    Maybe I am wanting attention??? Is that why I am ill? Or maybe just was physically tired out.

    I can’t help feeling that this illness is some part of my healing process and it kind of tied in with the healing I have been doing with my emotions!

    Just seems like everything is kinda purging and de-toxing…

    and it feels like it could be the final stages in moving on from the resentment I was holding about situation with me ex…

    Oh, and little child me probably does want attention too!

    I have noticed how child me is very attention hungry at the moment, and I love her for it!

  298.  #299Lorelei on December 13, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Ella – re 289 and 291

    I’m not happy with the the final bit about sexual exclusivity . . it sounds clunky . . . and if that subject hasn’t even come up yet, in so many words, it might sound weird to him to hear you talking about only sleeping with one man, if you’re not yet sleeping together!!

    My feeling is also that a man will be wondering about how sexual exclusivity fits in to all this, even before the final paragraph. It would be perfect if he brought it up himself, even as WTF does sex fit in? etc.

    Hope other Sirens will comment on this as well.

  299.  #300Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 8:30 am

    289: Lorelei says:
    Hi Ella @ 281

    “I want the kind of relationship with a ring
    Until someone wants what I want, I don’t want to close down my options.”

    What if the guy says then, “OK, will you marry me?!” Probably not likely…but you never know…I’ve been thinking about his and I’ve not got my head entirely around it. I don’t know what I think…


  300.  #301Mercedes on December 13, 2010 at 8:35 am

    I had the most amazing, wonderful, romantic, fun weekend with J…I’m soooo happy and soooo sleepy. And I must say…going to a strange city without a hotel room is a BAD idea…really, really BAD…but we did meet the sweetest cab driver who kept offering the ride free if we could answer two out of three trivia questions right. We couldn’t. She was really, really smart…or making things up. Doesn’t matter…we were all laughing for MILES. LOL

    We did find a hotel on the beach…that was cool. But next time, yeah, a little prior research is in order. 🙂

    We’re giving gifts for Christmas this year. We’ll have all or most of our kids under one roof and we’re giving gifts and making dinners and spending time together…all of it. Full Christmas (minus the snow most likely) in the way you see it on tv. LOL. Okay…he and I haven’t done one single bit of shopping yet…but we’ll get there. 🙂

    I would love to do Christmas the way it is described in this post. That feels better after the kids are grown though…but then again, I’d probably want to do gifts for grandchildren…soooo…most likely I’ll be buying gifts forever on Christmas. And that’s okay too.

    I don’t know. I prefer not to do Christmas with all the shopping, but then, I want to do Christmas with gifts. I think I want the perfect gift for each person I love to magically show up under the tree. One perfect gift for each person….that would be cool.

    Hope everyone had a great weekend!

    Much Love,

  301.  #302Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:37 am


    Ha ha, yes I have thought about that too!

    Lol. As you say I think unlikely but I guess my response would be

    “well it takes time for me to really know someone and I would not feel comfortable comitting myself to someone until I really know them.
    I feel great spending time with you.
    What do you think?”

    Or maybe I would just say

    “Woohoo baby, lets go to Vegas!” Lol.

  302.  #303Lorelei on December 13, 2010 at 8:46 am

    SLV @ 296

    I think that’s kind of the idea – that he might begin to think in terms of that, or at least realise we don’t want to have a sort of exclusive relationship without a decent commitment.

    If he asks us for our hands in marriage at that point in the conversation, we can always say,
    “I don’t know,” (spoken gently, softly and with the invitation of our open hearts), or
    “I don’t know yet . . but it feels good getting to know each other better.”
    Or “Wow, I’m speechless, I feel caught off guard. I need a moment or two . . (fans self, applies smelling salts). I don’t know yet, but it could be fun finding out the answer to the question. What do you think?”
    Or “No”!! Or “Yes”!!!

    Whenever i read about and hear Rori talking about the no-girlfriend speech, it’s usually or always to a man who we kind of like and are kind of hoping will step up and step forward.

  303.  #304Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Yay yay yay

    Mr Barman just called me.

    I feel happy.

    Had urge to over function and be all nice cus I was pleased to hear from him. And I told him I was pleased to hear from him.

    Then I told him that this morning felt weird to me…

    He asked me to come see him again. But this time I held my boundary and said NO!

    Not until I am better.

    I am firm on this.

    Anyway this helps me create trust. For myself and for him.

    I can say NO when I need to.

    And I am saying NO now!


  304.  #305Ella on December 13, 2010 at 8:51 am


    Re 229 – yes that is true re it is usually given to a man we are kinda hoping will step up and I guess that is why it feels so darned scary!

    I suppose that if it was a man we didn’t care about one bit we probably wouldn’t be getting that close to need to use it.

    Although Rori does encourage us to stay open to all men, even the forgs so maybe we would!

  305.  #306Ella on December 13, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Oww, I just learned something important from Modern Siren that I think I have been missing…

    Feeling messages work better when looking directly into his eyes!

    Wow, so simple but feels profound for me as I have not always been doing that.

    I feel excited and looking forward to practicing.

  306.  #307Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 9:16 am

    @Ella @Lorelei


    What if it’s a guy that you’ve been dating say about 6 weeks and kind of smitten with, no sex yet but it’s probably any minute and actually getting close to sex and the guy is asking if I am dating anyone else.

    Well, what i’ve I have two other guys that I’ve each had say two coffee dates with and I kind of like them too and either of them are slightly more “suitable” in terms of what I think I might want (subject to change) but I’ve only know them both for a week.

    First guy I’m feeling some lusty attachment but no way would agree to marry! now!

    So what would I say? Or is this you Ella? hmmm

    Thinking about what my position would be on this.

    Well, er, uh. Do I have a position statement on this? 😆


  307.  #308Lorelei on December 13, 2010 at 9:37 am

    SLV @ 303

    I don’t know! In Europe it is much rarer to be dating lots of different men at one time, than in the US. So it seems much weirder, for both men and women. This makes it truly scary.

    If asked directly, I would say – “I am meeting other people for the occasional coffee or drink. It feels good to keep my options open when there is no exclusivity deal. What do you think?”

    That might encourage him to talk about what sort of exclusivity deal he, or you, might consider. . .

    But as you say, so far, this is a bit hypothetical!!!

  308.  #309Lorelei on December 13, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Ella @ 302 – thanks, very good point to keep eye contact during feeling messages, rather than look away or look down, which I think I do.

  309.  #310Ella on December 13, 2010 at 9:41 am


    I feel confused by your post…

    Do you mean that is the way your view my situation?

    Oww, I asked for opinions and now I feel triggered…
    Your posts feels kinda judgemental to me. Think it could be the wording about you having a position on this?? I feel confused.

    Like you are assuming I do not feel Mr Barman is a suitable person for me as a long term option?

    The thing is I am at a place where I am still working out if he is suitable for me. I am staying very open and being very honest in the questions I ask myself about him and trying not to view through rose (or lust) tinted specs.

    And I also feel some really good things from Mr Barman… which is why I am waiting and watching, feeling, expressing and being in the moment.

    If I do not want to do the sex thing I simply won’t, sex is neither here nor there in terms of relationship, it is just sex.

    I want to stay away from being judgemental of anyone including Mr Barman.

    And I certainly don’t feel that any of the other guys I am dating are better for me at this point.

    Also it is unlikely that I would agree to agree to marry anyone I had been seeing for only a few weeks as I would feel more comfortable that I knew them after more time.

    However I am aware that Rori says sometimes the ones we are drawn to are the ones who can be most toxic to us, hence my caution and questioning around Mr Barman… But it does feel generally good, like not ‘I know this good’ but just kind of ‘I can deal with this and learn’ good.

    However sometimes with him I feel bad.

    I don’t suppose you feel 100% good with any person all the time…

    Anyway SLV I feel bad now like I am jumping down your throat after asking for your opinion…

    So just working out my trigger of feeling defensive about this situation…

    hmmm, interesting!

  310.  #311Ella on December 13, 2010 at 9:47 am

    I feel like I was being told what to do through a story, and that feels weird to me…

    I feel kind of prickly, like I do towards my mum sometimes when she is sorting half telling me what to do and it feels like judging.

    But I do not want to alienate SLV cus I love having you here to talk to…

    I also feel defensive and I think I am reacting in a defensive way.

  311.  #312Ella on December 13, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Lorelei re 304

    Yes, I am in the UK and it is almost unheard of here to be dating more than 1 person at a time!

    Makes it feel much more scary to me!

  312.  #313The Nikita Show on December 13, 2010 at 10:01 am


    Glad to hear you had a good time

  313.  #314Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 10:18 am

    I feel a bit better today. A little lighter.

    I feel somewhat radiant from embracing, accepting, loving, honoring my sadness so openly and honestly yesterday.

    Tinque’s words felt like a lullaby to my soul, bringing peace, comfort, rest, and understanding:

    “So Lucy, I think it’s okay to be acting as you are and feeling as you are.

    “Love is what drives most humans, maybe all if they’re being honest, the connection, the wanting to feel like you belong somewhere with a special someone.

    “Thank you for being so brave in saying this, how you really feel.”

    I felt embraced and accepted. The little girl inside me felt loved and accepted.

    And the “me too’s” shared by other women (thank you for adding yours, Rachel) felt like small children snuggling together for warmth, comfort, companionship, and love.

    Last night before falling asleep, I reread one of my favorite Eckhart Tolle articles, which is about the desire for love, and I saw that I was beginning to do what he wrote about:

    “… that unpleasant, painful feeling . . . surrender into that. Accept that suffering. And any suffering that you accept in that way will work for you… transmutes ego. Any suffering that is accepted completely transmutes ego, and also transmutes the suffering itself.”

    I feel grateful.


  314.  #315Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Ella, I feel impressed seeing how you are so self-aware in your interactions with mr. barman. This part felt especially good to read: “but had that tale tale feeling of not putting myself first or taking care of my needs/health and not being true to myself and these days it feels to awful to do for any length of time.” — and then you followed through with what you needed.

  315.  #316Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 10:33 am

    , 13 December 2010 @ 9:38am

    306: Ella says:
    I feel confused by your post…
    Do you mean that is the way your view my situation? ”

    No, not your situation. This was a question for me and I wondered if you could relate.

    I noticed I had a couple mistakes, I put “you” in top line but it wasn’t about you. “YOU” like generic but meaning “ME” wants to know.

    CD is not typically “American” either if you note the posts from American sirens.

    I was usually, back in prehistoric times, focused on one man and how a relationship evolved with him, or not. Oddly one time I was relationship focused was when I divorced. I told people yes, we were a great couple but it was not the relationship I wanted, I told someone that and they thought I was weird or selfish or something, I think I did too. Until recently I had forgotten I used those words.

    So far, regarding CD I read some words that Daria used that seemed to convey my thoughts so far, something like” I’m dating and meeting new people. ”

    I think it was better than that, maybe Daria will comment. I also like the word “socializing” instead of dating. Because if I’m not having a sexual relationship with those other CD that kind of sums it up. Of course, subject to change, as I learn and I change.



  316.  #317Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Wow, Ella, I just read what you wrote to me:

    “Rori mentions about making space for a man in your life… Maybe this is part of how it feels to make space for a man in your life? Maybe this is how the space feels… But if you can feel it and accept it you can move past it?”

    That feels right and true!


  317.  #318Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Ella, this makes even more sense than I first realized. Awhile ago, I told Erika that I realized there was a part of me that didn’t want a man in my life, didn’t want things to change, liked my life the way it was, etc. And Erika said that the part of me that doesn’t want a man could easily be keeping it from happening.

    There was no space for a man!

    So maybe you are right — maybe I have made space in my life for a man now, and that’s why I feel this way.

    I feel impressed by your insight. 🙂

  318.  #319Ella on December 13, 2010 at 10:52 am


    Ah ok, it was just me getting all triggery!

    I feel better now.

    It feels sad to hear how people labelled you after your divorce when you were less relationship focused. I always feel sad to hear people judging.

    However I love the stuff you said about ‘just dating and meeting new people… and socialising’…

    This kinda makes the no g.friend speech seem like it could be a little easier.

    I feel a lot of anxiety around it… however I believe that if I can just express myself authentically he will know I am not doing it to hurt him or be akward…

    And actually in many ways it is better for everyone, because then you get to really make sure you are right for one another, and when you are sure you get to commit fully to a great relationship!

    Owww, look at me justifyinig the No G’friend speech. Lol.

  319.  #320Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 10:53 am

    “Anyway SLV I feel bad now like I am jumping down your throat after asking for your opinion…”

    I didn’t get that at all. I’m learning by seeing someone’s situation and thinking how what is happening might apply to me in future.

    I’m trying to keep up with these posts as I’m skipping around five or six other sites.

    One thing i know for sure, I think dating three guys would help keep MY head more firmly attached and not have it go flying off into space…


  320.  #321Ella on December 13, 2010 at 10:56 am


    Yes I think so too. Although the others who I am dating feel very mundane to me right now…

  321.  #322Ella on December 13, 2010 at 10:56 am


    So glad my idea struck a cord with you! 🙂

  322.  #323Mercedes on December 13, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Thank you Nikita…I feel blessed and exhausted. Should have taken a recovery day off of work… 🙂

    Much Love,

  323.  #324Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:00 am

    No gf speech –

    I love giving my no gf speech. I usually give it in the first date or 2.

    I like STARTING with marriage. I also like to *blink blink*
    and act clueless that any woman would ever not do this.

    Like… I don’t want a boyfriend. I want to get married and have a family.

    *Blink blink*

    Guy here usually either gets shocked and goes into a soliloquy about what marriage for him because its likely this is the first time in his life he’s ever had to consider it in convo w a live woman who wants it… The soliloquy generally progresses from… Marriage is bad I don’t want to get married… To Id like to get married if it was real… To I want You. — I very much enjoy this reaction

    Or else he says that’s what I want too!

    Or else it’s a kinda snarky comment about how are u gonna get married if u skip the step of bein a gf

    At that point, I say oh… Smile because I am a wise relationship Woman and he is a silly clueless man lol to ask this

    Well I don’t want to be a gf… I do want to be married… I feel
    comfortable getting to know a man through dating until a serious proposal comes up cuz I want to be married not a gf


    This discussion is actually very fun because after it men invariably pursue me as wife and that feels great

  324.  #325Deb on December 13, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Hi Ella,

    You asked for speech examples, so I thought I’d share one that worked well for me. I wish I could be as Diva as to not get emotionally wrapped up from being sexual, but I found out that with ShimSham I was just not there yet (even though it wasn’t actual intercourse)… I couldn’t continue on knowing that he has sex with other women, I just can’t handle it 🙁 All I can say is that I felt very relieved that I honored my feelings by giving this speech. I walked away, and within a week he came back stronger than before. In addition to Rori, I used some of Pat Allen’s material and great advice from my friend who is a world-traveling model (who dates pro-athletes!) to help write it:

    “I made a mistake. I let our potential for a relationship down by giving you casual sex [or whatever applies to you]. I’m not going to do that anymore. I just can’t do a casual relationship, its not in my nature. I understand that you may leave, but from now on, I would need continuity and exclusiveness from you to continue. You have every right to take as long as you need to decide if you want to commit to me, but until then, I need to take care of myself, keep it together, and keep my options open.”

    I’m pretty sure I also told him that I like him and like spending time with him and that connecting with him was really really good!

    Ok, I hope something in there resonates with you and helps you out! I hope you know that your story with Mr. Barman is fascinating & inspiring – thank you so much for sharing 🙂

  325.  #326Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:02 am

    See? It’s not about not giving them something.., ‘be together’

    It’s about what I want and now they want it too.., yay!

  326.  #327Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:02 am

    I am a bit stuck with another guy who I went on 2 dates with. He is back in London and I am just there from time to time.

    He has been trying to see me again for about 3 months and I have meant to go on another date with him but just feel kinda luke warm, like ‘whatever’ and when it has come to it somehow I have always found a reason to cancel.

    A lot of it is to do with convenience, ie when I am in London I am just working and then I feel tired and just want to get home, or I would rather see a friend.

    I read somewhere Rori said that if we get to the point where we are just not up for seeing a guy, or we keep blocking to just be honest and say something like ‘I do not want to continue any further with this’.

    So I am thinking of saying this to him.

    At the moment its like I have got into a pattern of seeing his number or text flash up and just switching off and ignoring it straight away.

    And the more he calls me the less respect I have for him.

    Can anyone see any learning here for me or have any insight?

  327.  #328Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 11:03 am

    “It feels sad to hear how people labelled you after your divorce when you were less relationship focused. I always feel sad to hear people judging. ”

    Actually I was MORE relationship focused but who talked about that then? Even now? It came down to people saying “what’s wrong with HIM?” Well, he was OK but I wasn’t happy in the relationship.

    I told someone that and they didn’t get it and to tell the truth I guess I didn’t either…do you know what I mean? Like if I wasn’t happy in the relationship I must be very weird…or Heaven forbid…selfish…

    I don’t mind “judging.” I judge. My aim is to have good judgment.


  328.  #329Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:12 am



    Your post made me smile and chuckle… I like how you make it fun! feels good and I feel a touch braver now…

    I will definitely use the ‘blink blink’ 😉

    Deb, thanks too.

    I read one of your posts earlier and meant to say I found your situation insprirational where you are CD-ing Shimsham and Shag and it seems to be working out so well and that there might be a marraige proposal on the way soon!

    Made me feel like ‘Woohoo!’ Go girl!

    Re Mr Barman. I do not think he is beinig casual towards me at all. In fact he has made it very clear that he wants to be in an exclusive relationship with me…

    But I just don’t want another 3-5 (or however many) year relationship. I want to find my life partner and be a wife!

    So there we go, that is my truth, and now I guess I can experiment with how I put this to him and exlpore both our feelings around this.

  329.  #330Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:18 am


    Owww I don’t like judging.

    I had massive issues around judging when I first came to this site and what I came to realise is that I have always judged myself very harshly, and picked men who would do the same!

    Personally for me I am trying to judge less, although as I am doing so I am realising just how much I do judge. And where I judge others I am also judging myself.

    Instead I am now trying to learn to judge less and to be more accepting/forgiving, so that I can be more accepting and forgiving of myself.

    I am also trying to move away from labels like good and bad, although in our society this is obviously very difficult.

    These are just things I am personally experimenting with right now.

  330.  #331Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 11:19 am

    @320 Daria says:
    “…This discussion is actually very fun because after it men invariably pursue me as wife and that feels great…”

    What if I don’t know if I want him to pursue me as a wife? (Another what if–it’s about me…) say I do this in first dates and guy seems alright but no chemistry…really, idon’t know if I want heavy duty pursuit… but might want to drop the guy cold either. He could be an OK “friend.”

    I am assuming there will be all these guys. “Laughing out loud” here…so strongly I thought I would spell it out…. 😆

    oh, I dunno… but not looking for a man to be a father…to have babies with. Looking for sexy companion, dedicated, devoted, adoring, loyal, heehee, not asking too much…

    I must think some more on this.


  331.  #332Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:19 am

    The pic at the top of this post makes me feel all happy! It is so colourful and warm feeling.

  332.  #333Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I mean might NOT want to drop the guy cold.


  333.  #334Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 11:28 am

    @321 Deb
    “You have every right to take as long as you need to decide if you want to commit to me, but until then, I need to take care of myself, keep it together, and keep my options open.”

    It depends upon what one considers “commitment” to be. I am considering “sexual exclusivity” to be one thing and “commitment” to be something more permanent such as marriage.

    I could be “sexually exclusive” but still have options by giving “No Girlfriend” speech and CDing. I think Daria is doing this.

    Deb, do you mean if you have “sexual exclusivity” then you will not consider other men as options? And you would agree to be a “girlfriend” so that you do not give a “no girlfriend” speech. I think you posted this before. I’m not clear which is OK, not asking you to justify, only wanting your point of view.


  334.  #335Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Slv – then would say… I’m looking for marriage and companionship

    Pursuing me as a wife just means that’s the stature I now have in their eyes.

    Its not about not wanting them per se, I can always tell them I’m still not feeling attracted to them etc etc

    Although really the more honest I am with a man the more my attraction goes

    I noticed yesterday that it’s the feeling of anxiousness around feeling uncomfortable that I judged him thatajes me think I don’t like a guy

  335.  #336Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 11:31 am


    “Personally for me I am trying to judge less, although as I am doing so I am realising just how much I do judge. And where I judge others I am also judging myself. ”

    😆 I’m trying to judge more.


  336.  #337Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Daria does not have sexual exclusivity with anyone – she actually hasn’t had sex in awhile.

    Daria is not really interested in sexual exclusivity at this

  337.  #338Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:40 am

    @ Daria

    “I noticed yesterday that it’s the feeling of anxiousness around feeling uncomfortable that I judged him thatajes me think I don’t like a guy”

    Hmmm, this just struck a cord with me re the guy I was dating in London.

    I think I judged him as a bit silly, and touchy/feely and a bit clueless.
    Also he is a little ‘cuddly’ and I think I did that whole “how could he think he could be with ME” kind of judging too.

    And I felt kind of annoyed at hom sometimes as I would express stuff and he just totally would not get where I was coming from at all, and it made me feel frustrated and bored…

    and then he wanted to be all romantic with me and I felt like ‘ewww! Don’t try to kiss me!!!’ made worse by the fact that he unknowingly took me on a romantic walk to a place that my ex and I regularly used to walk!

    Anyway I think maybe he is a nice guy. And I could feel warm to him but probably more like friendship.

    That has given me some insight but I still do not know if I will se him again, especially as it is kind of inconvenient, distance now…

    Not sure what to say to him though.

    Feel I need to say something as he keeps calling.

  338.  #339Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I’m trying to judge more – feels frightening to hear.

    Hi part of self… I know u are feeling scared and doubting your intuition and u think judging will protect u and… It’s ok… U don’t have to hurt yourself and hold yourself back from love by judging. You dant have to keep cutting off your hand so others won’t. Here give me the knife. I will protect you and I won’t abandon you I promise. Awww lil frightened baby. I got u. I love you. Yum yum happy baby yes?

  339.  #340Ella on December 13, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Ella may decide to have sexual exlusivity with someone… if she wants to…

    She is looking forward to experimenting!

  340.  #341Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:43 am

    and I think I did that whole “how could he think he could be with ME” kind of judging too.

    I did this yesterday with a guy and it’s actually how I figured out what the feelings were that prompted this!

    And I actually told him that I feel uncomfortable when a guy second guesses himself or me and acts insecure cuz I like a confident guy!

    Wow he did not take it badly

    There’s more to discover but it allowed me to allow him in much more

  341.  #342Simply Shannon on December 13, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Hmmm… I actually like the idea of judging more. I hereby take back the word “judging” as a trigger word. It’s Switzerland. Neutral.

    I judge all the time whether something feels good or bad. Yep. I judge. So what.

    Judging doesn’t have to have a negative connotation.

    I got that SLV. Thank you! Shannon

  342.  #343Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Me said:
    “I could be “sexually exclusive” but still have options by giving “No Girlfriend” speech and CDing. I think Daria is doing this.”

    Sorry, oops, I got first part wrong. 😳 You are still giving No g/f speech, right? I am thinking you/Daria would still give g/f speech and CD but could also be “sexually exclusive”… or not? What do you think?

    I am thinking you/in general/&me could do that too.



  343.  #344Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Well, it’s semantics again, that’s all. There is judging that is helpful and loving (both to others and self) and there is judging that is unhelpful and unloving (both to others and self).

  344.  #345Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    How am I getting two SLVs hahaha 😆

  345.  #346Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    btw, Shannon, I love your new fb pic! For some reason I can’t post on your wall or comment on your pics, so I’ll say it here. 🙂

  346.  #347Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @335: Daria says:
    “I’m trying to judge more – feels frightening to hear.”

    Fear not. Judging, not executing. Improving my judgment is an ongoing goal.


  347.  #348Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    “Improving my judgment is an ongoing goal.”

    Like when my sons are rock climbing along the ocean and my older son says, “We can make this gap” (jumping over the churning sea far below), and my younger son says, “No we can’t, let’s go this way instead.”

    My younger son also scares me less than the older one as a driver. 🙂

  348.  #349Ella on December 13, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Judging… yes I agree with Lucy, just a word thing.

    For me I would prefer to say I am experimenting with how things feel to me rather than labelling as good or bad. Or exploring, rather than judging.

    However I get the other meaning too

  349.  #350Ella on December 13, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it! If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it!!

    La la la

    Ha ha, te he…

  350.  #351Ella on December 13, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Hmmm, that didn’t really go to plan so much with my London date guy.

    I said “for some reason meeting up just doesn’t seem to be happening. I feel a block. I am not sure if I want to continue trying to make plans at this time. What do you think?”

    And he said “I really want to see you”…

    Aww bless.

    I feel worried that I have the potential to be quite mean to this guy and I do not want to do that. I also feel very tired of speaking to him.

    I don’t want to spend a whole evening together.

    Should I offer him a short coffee date next time I am there or not?

  351.  #352Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Ella, I run into that problem a lot. I can relate to feeling worried about the potential for meanness. I ended up being mean to a guy last year bc he just wasn’t hearing me when I was stating my feelings and don’t wants in a milder way.

    Now in these situations I am doing more Not Responding instead.

  352.  #353Simply Shannon on December 13, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Hehe. I feel judged. So what. Lalala. 😉

    Lucy, that pic was taken by my CD on Saturday. Swoon! Thank you!

  353.  #354Daria on December 13, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Ella – how about after he says that…
    I feel angry… I’m feeling turned off from u… I don’t feel very heard… I get the feeling u care mote about how u feel than me… And I want a man who doesn’t address my concerns…

  354.  #355Daria on December 13, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Haha I don’t want a man that doesn’t address my concerns..,

    Or… I don’t want a man that doesn’t get me

    Or I don’t want a man that doesn’t make me feel comfortable

  355.  #356Senior Lady Vibe on December 13, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    @351: Daria says:
    “Or… I don’t want a man that doesn’t get me”


    You don’t get me you lunkhead… heeheehe 😆

    I’m being bad or is that THE RED QUEEN? Too much sugar this afternoon. But I just read a message from a guy and those words crossed my mind… 😆



  356.  #357Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Slv – u don’t get me… Well it might not feel that way, but maybe it will once I express that I don’t want it. Then I just be surprised.

    Calling him a lunkhead has the added repercussion that I’m calling myself a lunkhead… And the part of me that doesn’t get me will feel bad and alienated instead of embraced and loved and appreciated and helping me be more whole.

    But there’s always.,, I feel really angry and frustrated and it’s making me look at you in a bad way and judge you and label you bad names. This is nit what I want with a man. Experiencing this makes me feel turned off and frightened cuz I don’t want to turn into a mean ugly person I think I am for having these thoughts

  357.  #358LonePlum on December 13, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    279: Ella

    *******Also I think we will sleep together soon. We have been seeing each other near enough a month and I feel good with him sexually. I want to.
    And I don’t want to sleep with anyone else.
    How do I make him know it is not about sleeping with others?
    I feel scared and not ‘grown up’ enough to handle this…
    Can’t I hide please?
    I want to work out how to stay on my horse and still stay open to this guy and the possibilities here…
    Please tell me your opinions and feelings on this.*******

    I would not be thinking that I am ready for sex.
    I would not think of it at all, I would be dating around, thoughtless, just enjoying.
    I would enjoy getting to know him, I would see how much he is stepping up.
    No urgency to chose a man already.

    Specially if he is the only one I like.
    It would be dangerous to get hooked on him before he has realized what he really wants to do in REAL.
    It might stop his heart from processing towards true love and commitment.

    The man offers commitment first, and then we chose if we accept him.
    We don’t chose a man before his heart is hooked on us.

    I would wait for him to take the decision for both to become sexual.
    Until then, I would enjoy peacefully.
    I would NOT refer to sex.
    Either we are being sexual or we are not.

    If he respects my boundaries and my dreams, he will not become sexual before a few months.
    He will give himself time to feel if he wants to commit.
    He will try to not break my dream by sharing sex if he is not ready to commit with me.

    In case he does try sexual attitudes before he has done anything to belong to my real life, I would use my powerful “NO”

    It would make him so proud of my high degree and he will want to work harder to deserve me.
    It will trigger his need to be the champion who will get the prize.

    And it will also make him feel safe that I can master my sexual desire, I can say “no”.
    He will feel reassured that no man makes me open my legs, not even him, I am the one who decides when and with whom.

    So he will feel safe that he can work away from me, I will keep myself safe..
    He needs not to worry.
    Men fear that other men push us to sex and that we don’t have the will to resist.
    They need to know we are on their team and we have what it takes to STAY on their team, no matter what other men will do to seduce us.

    Their subconscious want to be the father of the baby they might raise with you.

    Nikita, thank you for reposting Rori’s post. Do you remember where you found it, please?

    I have heard of men and women who met and knew immediately they were in love.
    They left husband and wife, they moved in together within the first month, had sex and kept in love
    They divorced from each their ex-partner and married together and are still together

    So, you know, only you know how things feel.
    But Rori’s advices to wait at least 3 months.


  358.  #359Rosa on December 13, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    So the No GF speech can go right on your internet profile if you want it too..

    Something like

    “I am excited about meeting new people !

    I do want to be married to a great guy and walk off down the beach together one day .To find him may take some time .

    Meanwhile I am not looking for an instant relationship and love the idea of dating. A coffee and chat , a walk at dusk, or trawling around the markets could all be great ways of getting to know people.

  359.  #360Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Loneplum – he’ll no for me

    I live sex and I don’t want a man to wait months forever

    I also don’t want to only have sec in a committed relationship

    I don’t think Ella does either

    Roti is all for sex and uncommitted sex

    she says to wait if u know You get hung up

    I do not get hung up. Cuz I’m on my bridge.

    And I like sex

    And to me you seem very hung up about sex and since it triggers me a part of me must be too. I love you part and it’s ok now. I will take care of you from now on . It’s safe to have sex when we feel turned on and we want to now


  360.  #361LonePlum on December 13, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Rosa 355

    Hello Rosa 🙂

    I was wondering how you are feeling?

    That’s a great idea you are having.
    I will copy paste and see how I handle it, then I will put it on my profile.

    Time wasters will come anyhow, because nothing stops them.
    But it will filter out lucid guys aware that they don’t want that. It will save time and energy 🙂


  361.  #362Rosa on December 13, 2010 at 2:25 pm


    Daria , I LOVE your upfront Blinking Speech.

    “I don’t want a boyfriend. I want to get married and have a family.

    *Blink blink*

    Guy here usually either gets shocked and goes into a soliloquy about what marriage for him because its likely this is the first time in his life he’s ever had to consider it in convo w a live woman who wants it… The soliloquy generally progresses from… Marriage is bad I don’t want to get married… To Id like to get married if it was real… To I want You. — I very much enjoy this reaction

    Or else he says that’s what I want too!

    Or else it’s a kinda snarky comment about how are u gonna get married if u skip the step of bein a gf

    At that point, I say oh… Smile because I am a wise relationship Woman and he is a silly clueless man lol to ask this

    Well I don’t want to be a gf… I do want to be married… I feel
    comfortable getting to know a man through dating until a serious proposal comes up cuz I want to be married not a gf”

    I love This so much !

    1. It is real , timely and shockingly authentic.

    How the heck did women get to the point where we are embarrassed to admit this to new men???
    I feel my expectations have been down managed..
    I feel AWKWARD wanting to say I WANT MARRIAGE to a new man.

    Back a generation from me all men and women knew this as a social norm .No one needed to say it. And men proposed. My generation was experimental and things “turned on a dime” Now its the “girlfriend generation “..yet women still want commitment and a nest. They are TOO SCARED to push for it . I see it every day , heart break after heart break . They want marriage and kids , not single IVF at 39 years.

    So lets stand up and SAY SO with integrity ..Yaayy Daria , applause applause……!!!!!!

    2. I also LOVE the blinking.

    3. I love the reply to the “you have to be a girlfriend first before marriage” idea. Basically WHO SAYS???????
    You reply to that with a statement of what you WANT , not an intellectualisation , not a logical argument ..just a position statement. I love it .
    So intriguing for the guy…

  362.  #363Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    I will not get hooked on him before anything.,. Because I will never get hooked on him. Because I want an addictionless relationship

    His heart will never get stopped from processing for me

    Oh I might freak out I hear you voice! And that’s cool too we are safe to freak out feel intensely.., Babysteps to worthiness and safety.

  363.  #364LonePlum on December 13, 2010 at 2:27 pm


    You make me laugh with all your judgements about sex

    I love sex and I love myself which says it all

    Promiscuity is not freedom nor love

    3 months is not for ever


  364.  #365Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Rosa – yay! Beamy Daria! Marylin Monroe side to side eye look then smile with slight shoulder shrug 🙂

    yes I feel very secure and interesting doing it thus way. I feel Womanly. I feel serious and that sophisticated lady that Everyman wants

  365.  #366Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Loneplum – I don’t use the word promiscuity as it has built in judgements about sex.

    I’d rather just honor sex as sacred whether Whorishly or marriedly

  366.  #367Rosa on December 13, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Hi LonePlum,

    Thanks for asking , feeling better in body and soul.

    Going to go swimming again shortly (outdoors pool , sun, trees , flowers , bay and boats …Sydney.

    Will be trying to improve the moth on a bicycle stroke.

    G-Man is not intruding in thoughts hardly at all, I did 3 days of NLP, EMDR on myself and talked to a friend, and blogged here. I deleted his contact details and I am feeling back to my usual resolve.
    His behaviour was “unbelievable and unfathomable” according to friend, so i have decided to BELIEVE it and SEEK NO REASON. Basic Rori “no closure” stuff. He’s barely clinging to the saddle.

    Are you dating Plum? I dont know your story . I alsways love your wise contributions..

  367.  #368Ella on December 13, 2010 at 2:37 pm


    Thanks for your post and I will take your words to heart and see how they sit with me. I have often found great wisdom in your posts in the past.

    I also feel defensive reading your post.

    I am trying to say that I feel ok about the sexual side of things now.

    I have/had some issues due to being in a sexless relationship before which left me with a fear of not being wanted by my man/any man.

    I discussed this fear with him and he reassured me. We talked about sex and it felt free and easy. And I do not think it will be an issue here. I feel reassured.

    I won’t do antything before I am ready, I have no issues around waiting to have sex if that feels right to do so. And when and if having sex does feel right I will do it. I will not give myself rigid timescales. I will follow my feelings and trust my boundaries.

    There is no pressure whatsoever about this from him.

    I also appreciate that sex is irrelevant to relationship. So it doesn’t make a difference to the relationship if I do it or not as long as I feel totally ok with my choice. It is a sexual connection not an emotional one and can be used to increase intimacy but ultimately needs to be viewed as just pleasure/in the moment experience.

    He wants to be commited to me (in the traditional sense) and he has expressed that and at the moment I feel it. Hence the need for the no g.friend speech.

    I am giving it time, there is no rush.

    “I feel scared and not ‘grown up’ enough to handle this…
    Can’t I hide please?
    I want to work out how to stay on my horse and still stay open to this guy and the possibilities here…”

    This was in relation to the No G.friend speech not regarding having sex.

  368.  #369Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    And it Diesnt make me laugh… It feels sad 🙁

    With a lump in my tummy.

    It feels sad because in my mind wanderings I’ve talked to old goddeses that reveled in sex

    And they were repressed and oppressed by men who wanted them to only have it in marriage, who wanted to make sure to control their super powerful magic

    And the goddeses told me about sex being mine – because men will always be drawn back to the mother

    Waiting for sex will not do anything for me unless I think it will… And I don’t

    I just wait till I want it

  369.  #370Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Roris advice is to wait 3 months IF YOU CAN’T HANDLE SEX BEFORE RELATIONSHIP.

    Rori has done full posts on sex. She says to do it how u want it.

  370.  #371Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    My holding out on sex does not make a man feel safe.

    My being Authentic does.

    Men will still choose to be with me if I dint Committ to them sexually.

    I am Goddess they want to please me.

    It is my choice whether to marry, I do not need to. I can always have men worshipping at my temple.

    It is my power, I am magnificent.

  371.  #372Ella on December 13, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Daria re 356

    This post makes me feel safe and comforted.

  372.  #373Ella on December 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I do not feel comfortable with the word/label ‘promiscuity’…

    And who gets to decide on the magic time when it is no longer promiscuis to have sex?

    For me I don’t want to create any more issues around sex for myself. I want to heal my relationship with sex. It is not to do with any one man.

    I want to be able to have sex purely when it feels right whether I am alone, with someone, single or married. And I want to throw out judgements of myself and feel DIVA with my decision.

    I will follow my feelings and trust my boundaries.
    That feels good.

  373.  #374Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    It’s men that made up the stuff about being chaste… That we now – me no more – perpetuate.

    We used to freely have sex we were wild and powerful. It is a great gift that we would choose a man to bind to.

    It’s not necessary .

    We can be whores. Men will love u’s and worship us. They will thrill to marry u’s.

    They will feel safe with our authenticity… Not our chastity.

    They know chastity is not real.

  374.  #375Ella on December 13, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I do not feel comfortable with the thought ‘I have to prove myself to a man through my chastity!’

    NO – Not for me. I will trust my feelings and look after myself not worry about what someone else thinks of me.

    This is freedom and authentic to me.

  375.  #376LonePlum on December 13, 2010 at 2:55 pm


    ****I am giving it time, there is no rush.****

    Good, that’s all that counts
    I have observed you fighting against the emergency feeling. It is good to know you handle it now.


  376.  #377Daria on December 13, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Wait a min – not all men made that up – I don’t want to bullish men.,, it’s such a habit of goddess discoverers. I don’t know what happened… The optessors, the One Who Got Scared Of Woman made it up I heard

    The Froid father

    How did it come to be? He was scared and his mind turned against himself


  377.  #378Ella on December 13, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Thanks Loneplum,

    I feel more settled now.

    And I feel the caring in your posts.

  378.  #379tinque on December 13, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    “sex is irrelevant to relationship”

    I don’t agree with this at all. Sex is an important and very relevant part of a relationship once it’s been established as a relationship.

    It’s a deep bonding beyond intimacy.

    But maybe that’s what you were trying to convey Ella.

    I hear you struggling with this issue. Maybe try being more relaxed about it. Maybe try getting out of your head about it. When it happens, it happens. It may be good; it may be not so good, but whenever it happens and whatever happens, it will be the right time and perfect in its imperfection.

    My first time with K felt really strange. I hadn’t been with anyone other than my ex for over thirteen years. I wondered the whole time if I was doing the “right” thing.

    It may have been my nicest first time with someone, but it still felt awkward and weird, and no I didn’t orgasm.

    It can take time to know someone in this way, to find your rhythm with a new person. We’re still finding new things with each other even after almost nine years, and the discovery is great fun.


  379.  #380Daria on December 13, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Feeling good.

    Feeling excited that my ‘vibration’ is rising

    my song is singing?


    i feel access to my magic power

    i was feeling so dragged down

    and now

    i feel fed

    my brain was low

    i ate walnuts and chocolate covered pomagranates

    i did my resistance to change eft

    thank you guy


    i can do more EFt

    i feel tapped into my power to change

    3 ways:

    asking Elegua to open the door for me for my intent

    what if

    2 parts of me discussion

    what was the third part? oh yah forgiving myself in other positions


  380.  #381Daria on December 13, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    i don’t see Ella struggling with this issue at all!

    waving to Ella

    i see her feeling really comfortable with sex

    and i understand her saying sex is irrelevant

    the way Rori said in a post… sex is nothing.

    it will not stop or attract a man really in itself

    the only way it has an effect is in the effect it has on our vibe

  381.  #382Daria on December 13, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    singing my body electic

    somehow that just looks blue

    like lightning

    my blood rushing back is the dark blue

    and zaps all of a sudden

    with neon lit gas


    out of nowhere the spakr

    of created orgasmics



    out my channels

    skylit flow

    rolling on the back like an otter

    in the gentle stream

    of pusling gentle blood

    that loves the extra help righ tnow

    to move along move along


    to the door of transformation

    that beats ever louder

    making us a fresh

  382.  #383Daria on December 13, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    smiling at me

    from across the centuries

    you really want me to succeed dont you?

    what is success but

    living more of you?

    what is success but

    peace and rest and satisfaction?

    how will i get there?

    if everystep

    is an opening

    and i cannot get lost

    i am still frantic

    you hold out your arms

    and i hold on to your pinky and index fingers


    look at me

    i am taking big huge steps

    with big giant leaps

    all by myself

    but i am scared

    and i want to sit down and cry

    and there are monsters below

    so i sit down with the monsters

    and hug the scaly side of one of them

    that looks much like a brontosaurus

    if i look up

    but i dont really want to look up

    i am so tired

    and the monster pen

    is so cozy

    and smells like softness

    and i go to sleep

    i wake up warm and nudged

    by big wet rubbery nose

    of my monster friend

    and now i feel sad

    to leave her

    and she lifts me up on her neck anyway

    andputs me back in the grass

    and i stumble on


    and i ffeel mad

    cuz i dont want to journey again

    and i am mad at you

    so i sit in the grass

    until the strong overstrong sun is out

    and i have to walk tiredly to the forest

    i sigh in disappointment

    because here i am again

    journeying against my will

    and i hate everything

    even the sun

    and i hate you

    because i dont want to journey

    i am mad that im lonely

    and i hate you

  383.  #384Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Helloooo Siren Island!
    I have been off the list for a while – hid myself on all the dating sites – did a sort of man-fast. Dumped everyone I was seeing including sending a closure email thing with Family Guy… I am so glad I did that – it was a powerful positive thing for both of us and I feel really good about where that relationship landed.

    I have been working on getting my business back on solid footing and decided to run a nice little fund-raising event in February and that is moving along without too many hitches. Kids are back at school and all seems on track with that…

    And then!!!…..drum roll here….. the MAN SHOWED UP! Who would have guessed???? I don’t freaking believe it!!!

    During my manfast, I decided to keep myself on hide on POF and make an approach when someone seemed ok. I did it without any expectations and I run my efforts as a simple process… a few back and forth emails and then he either wants to meet or I am out of there. I do that because I invent the entire person and his personality in pretty quick order so I have to get to a meeting as quickly as possible to avoid the inventing thing. So this guy, Baldy, seemed ok. I did the Rori thing – “I am intrigued…” and we had a little back and forth. He suggest a meet, I suggested lunch half way…it was lovely. I sent a thank you note and got a response right away and he has been stepping up big time ever since!

    It is so lovely – he calls every evening, he emails every day, he asks permission to call me, he organizes the dates, he plans, he brought me to his company Christmas party and introduced me around to his colleagues, ….and then this morning he asked me if I would go away with him in February!!! can you freaking believe it??? So sweet.

    And now this is a surprise for me… I have been able to very easily stay leaning back and not overfunction. Although he had a terrible accident the day after we met so I am driving to see him and a few odd things like that, but he is recovering well and I haven’t done a whole pile of overfunctioning stuff that I might have done before discovering Rori tools. I have really paid attention to what I am feeling when I am with him and allowing that to guide how I relate. He said today that he was astonished at how easy it is for him to be with me and how it feels like he has known me forever, yet it has been such a short time, and how good he feels when he is with me. Soo lovely!

    All that CD activity has paid off.
    All that practice feeling communication and developing feeling awareness works.
    I feel centred, calm, happy, relaxed, safe, and what I wanted more than anything…..LOL DESIRED!!! oh la la!!

  384.  #385Simply Shannon on December 13, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Ella, I’m trying to get through the posts and something you said about a guy planning a date struck me because I just had that same thing happen today. It hit me as I was emailing with this fella that a part of me was wanting to just say no to a date because I felt so overwhelmed trying to plan a time. My brain was just screaming at me to say “pick a date already!!” Then I felt compassion because it was indeed ME who didn’t want to do the planning. I feel easily overwhelmed with the details. And I extended compassion and grace to him. He was actually trying to accommodate me. He didn’t know I felt weird about it.

    So here is what I wrote…

    “Hmmm. Ok. Right this minute I feel confused. My brain is wondering if you mean now or after Christmas? Or after New Year’s? Or… ahhh… my brain just exploded. I’d feel good knowing the dates you have in mind. Easier for me. Sigh. Yes, I feel much better when things are uncomplicated.”

    And voila. He picked a date and a time and a place.

    Me= back to relaxing and looking forward to the date.

  385.  #386Simply Shannon on December 13, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Yeah Lizzie! So good to see you and delighted to read your update!!

  386.  #387Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Hey Simply Shannon! how are you??? Brenda , Daria? ??

  387.  #388Simply Shannon on December 13, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Daria, Where did Rori write about sex being nothing? Erika just wrote a post about “sex is nothing”, and I felt intrigued by it.

    Sex is relevant to a relationship but it has the same value as a hug or sharing a meal or a glance across the room between lovers. Sex is just another piece of the pleasure pie. It’s not the whole pie. And really, even without sex, a relationship should still be able to stand. (Mild trigger. Brain saying no due to marriage experience.) But I know I’m not going to die with or without sex.

    There are plenty of relationships where sex is a non-issue. I mean, I love my best friends, but I’m not sleeping with them. Those relationships don’t die AND I don’t love them any less without sex. Oh that feels good. Eye-opening, like a belief buster.


  388.  #389Dorothea on December 13, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    hey to all the pretty sirens
    i just need a place right now to work something major out. it is not man related but I feel lost. if you have input or a response, it’s certainly welcome!

    i don’t want to apply to grad school like i’ve been planning and working for (taking exams, classes). The deadline is in 3 weeks and I want to wait one more year to apply.

    i took the entrance exam and did ok on it, but i waited so long to take it that i cannot take it again before application deadlines. i will still probably get accepted with the scores i got, but i DEFINITELY could have done better and taken out virtually all the wiggle room to get rejected from schools i apply to

    i also havent secured recommendations from old professors, and there still is time, but it only gives them 3 weeks to get them in and now it’s vacation and I have to track them down to ask them, which will probably create a bad impression of me to them. i feel guilty and like a bother and super embarrassed slacker entitled girl.

    so obviously my half-assing is motivating me to want to rationalize applying in one more year.

    but grad school is the next step in my dream, so i feel like i ought to be going for it as soon as i can, instead of making excuses about why i can’t move forward. i could be stuffing feelings and rationalizing because i am afraid i won’t get it all in on time or i won’t get accepted because i waited so long i’m half assing it and it will feel embarrassing.

    i don’t want to not go for my dream because i am afraid or a slacker. also my uncle paid for exam prep classes and i don’t want him to be pissed. and LI endured a lot of stressed out crap from me and helped me get to the exam even when he was super burnt out on our relationship. so i don’t want to let them down by not applying right now. he will understand though.

    it’s my uncle i am terrified of. i don’t want him to think i’m a loser. honestly he already thinks i’m a loser and i don’t want him to think “gosh what a waste of money she was.” it was the first time he’s ever done or said anything supportive to me and i don’t want to blow it. ack i feel all tense

    at the same time, i realize i will have much better chances of getting in AND getting everything paid for by the school if i take the exam again and take the time to get a stellar application together.

    moreover, i realize i am just throwing myself into another big time consuming transition before i have the chance to feel grounded. i am just barely taking care of myself. it would feel good to save up some money and form new habits that i intend to form. i just barely changed my diet like i had always wanted to. i want to start exercising regularly. i want to get good at things like keeping my house clean and not waking up an hour late every day.

    my whole life i have been putting off changing these things in my life because i was too busy with great big work and school things to work towards self improvement in any practical sort of way. when i quit my last succubus of a job a couple of months ago, i changed my diet with the time to cook for myself. my house is somewhat cleaner and more organized.

    i want to see more of the world before i am a broketastic phd student.

    i want another summer full of weekend camping trips and fresh air, not working and hustling.

    i am just really scared that i am rationalizing being a slacker and copping out.

    i guess, though, after i typed this out here and worked it out, i know in my heart i don’t want to apply for grad school yet. i want to spend the next year and a half doing ME and not my dream of gradschool.

    but what if every year that goes by, i get further away from my dream?

    what if there were other ways to keep my dream alive and nurtured, like attending conferences and and perfecting my languages? like traveling to a foreign country to immerse myself in a language i am learning?

    i feel scared =/

  389.  #390Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:03 pm


    Rori didnt actually say sex is nothing. she said sex changes nothing. thats how i meant it too

    rori actually says in other posts sex is very important in a relationship. that if yourenot having sex, thats a sign the relationship is in trouble

    she also has said that after some time, men will need sex to continue relationship

    here is the October post where she says SEX CHANGES NOThiNG!

  390.  #391Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Hi Lizzie! I feel happy for you!

    I also feel intrigued… 🙂 So… you initiated online contact… you suggested meeting halfway (after he suggested meeting)…and you made first contact (thank you note) after the date…? And then he picked it up from there and ran with it?

    I feel interested in this… bc… it breaks some Rori rules/guidelines…. BUT is also the way, in the past (pre-marriage) that things have worked best for ME… following my intuition… even if it means a bit of initiating etc…. Hmmm…..

  391.  #392Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    “Catherine – I’m so sorry – what you’re lacking here is EXPERIENCE.

    You’re simply not experienced with men and dating enough to know what’s going on. Please don’t be upset with you OR with him…you just had expectations here that had no business being here.

    Dating is dating.

    Sex changes NOTHING.

    Emotional bonding is something that happens, but it also means NOTHING if the logistics of the experience and the “relationship” – if it becomes one_ please you.

    I’m not saying what he feels one way or another – it’s simply IRRELEVANT!!!!

    If you feel invested with a man when you have sex, then you can’t have it until you’re married. Period.

    I encourage you to allow sex to be a part of your life experience and get there by not having sex with any man you’d CONSIDER for the long term – until you have SOME level of security – so you can relax.

    Love, Rori”

  392.  #393Dorothea on December 13, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Lucy, what’s up!
    I find I can usually lean forward and initiate as long as i switch it around real quick and act with myself like it was all his idea to begin with. a lot of guys will pick up the reins somewhere along the way, usually right after you initiate/lean forward. when they don’t, i have a harder time noticing how bored and rejected and turned off i feel. usually i just overfunction to compensate, but i have been getting much better at it!

  393.  #394Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    i just ate a sausage

    internet search on eating pig:

    In folklore terms, eating the meat of the pig is said to contribute to lack of morality and shame, plus greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony

    YAY I REJOICE – i have found that anything “bad” is usually because it was “good” to the old goddess

    so I am happy! pig is helping me feel LESS SHAME AND JUDGEMENT {lack of morality and shame}

    and more DESIRE and RELAXATION!! {greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony}

    thanks pig!

    “pigs are extremely clever animals who form complex social networks and have excellent memories. Eating a pig is like eating your dog!”

    mm yes and id eat the dog too hehehe

    jus saying 😉

    probably not a dog ive bonded with

  394.  #395Dorothea on December 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    i can’t eat pork after watching the pilot for that show “House MD”

    ok i still do eat pork but i have a serious complex about it lol

  395.  #396Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Hi Dorothea. Yeah, that’s the way it worked well for me back before I was married. I’m glad to hear you are having success with doing that! Now, hearing yours and Lizzie’s input, I feel brave enough to go back to doing what worked for me! Yay!

  396.  #397Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    pigs were one of the animals of the old goddess probably wild pigs

    ok so more!

    “Usually, in Buddhist iconography, the pig represents desire in all its forms. This ranges from identification with one’s body, through a general love of material possessions, as well as the lust for food or sexual satisfaction. Therefore, the pig is 1 of 3 animals depicted at hub of the Buddhist Wheel of Rebirth — in both a figurative and a literal sense. That is, they symbolize the impediments to our release from the round of rebirth, and they are: desire/attachment (the pig,) anger/aversion (the snake), and ignorance/confuson (the rooster.) ”

    aha! all 3 goddess animals, pig, the very FEMININE SNAKE! and the chicken/ rooster


    i reclaim these wonderful animals and the wonderful naturalness of life

    i dont want to jump off the spiral wheel

    i am the wheel i am woman


    pig is desire, Ms Piggy, Aphrodite


    Snake is my sexy lilith of awesome power

    rooster chicken is hehe… maybe an Artemis, a fiery warrior Goddess

  397.  #398Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    yes yes yes ! i found references in my Danubian land:

    at Cucuteni there are beautiful sculptures of the pig ingrained iwth grain marks, like the Vegetation Goddess!


    as many pig sculptures in old europe as of horses, bulls, and he goats (guy symbols)

  398.  #399Daria on December 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    i don’t really eat much meat because i am only into eating natural raised animals

    so i am going to wait till i get a piece of pork from a natural farm

    sometimes i still do eat it tho

  399.  #400Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Hi Lucy, BIG HUG!
    Yes, I did many things that are contrary to Rori rules. I look at rules as relative and adapt and massage them to fit my context. In considering my context and intuition, I take a leap and see what happens. Here are a few things I did that turned out to be good and are quite to the contrary of a literal intrepretation of her guidelines:

    – no closure: I decided to end the dangling relationship I had with Family Guy. It just made sense to me. I wrote a lovely feeling message, and really took the time to own the feelings. He responded with a lovely note and asked for forgiveness for him being selfish. I responded with a more fulsome note about the importance of him needing to be selfish and to relish in all the love an attention of his special children and his family and that maybe one day, we will both re-surface and enjoy spending time together. I am really glad that I did it, I am very happy that I communicated with an open and compassionate heart with him.

    I make all the contact on-line: I have discovered several things about on-line that seems to fit my age category (54 !!) the men fall into several broad categories:
    1) the ones who are in terrible pain from loss
    2) the ones who have big problems (could be the same as 1 but the problems are generally other than loss)
    3) the ones who are quite introverted
    4) the players
    5) married or something like that
    6) the little gems hidden in the weeds who have no idea what they are doing

    All efforts are to get to the group 6 – hidden gems who have no idea what they are doing, and they need a tiny bit of help. So if I take the Rori way at face value with this gang, I am waiting for the needle in the haystack to find me. Well, I will be old and grey!!! or greyer….
    So, I help that along a bit so that I can flush out all the ones in categories 1-5 and wiggle the weeds to find the hidden gem.

    How I do that – I use a good bit of the tips I have found here and in the Rori messages. I say something about their profile that intrigues me and I use as much as I can a feeling message…what do you think? and see what happens. In the laws of averages, lets say I contact about 10, I will get at least a note back from about 8 of which about 2 seem to follow-up. I met about 10 people this summer that way, and another 10 this past 6 weeks that I have been off siren island.

    Baldy was a complete surprise. I should not have had a good vibe but I did. He is quite recently separated and I would not typically see someone who is still “in the basement” but decided to anyway – because of the CD philosoply. He has a lovely vibe. Calm, relaxed, well centred. Surprising because I am a transition specialist and I am not picking up all the typical anquish signs I have picked up from so many others who are hurting many years after divorce! I have really worked on not being attached to an outcome, and this worked here.

    Yes I do a thank you note. I do that because it is the polite thing to do. And some guys need a tiny bit of encouragement. It is very simple: “I appreciate the time you took to meet me and I am happy. I would enjoy getting to know you a little more. Thank you.”

    I avoid “I hope to see you again” because I find that feels like groveling. Feels yucky to me.

    And Baldy really stepped up once I gave him a little encouragement. In fact, he asked me for another date and I wasn’t available for 10 days. The next day he called and said that it wasn’t soon enough and what could he do to get squeezed in earler! Oh I so love it!!!

    So if we think of it as being in the boat, I gave it a little push off and then lounged in the back of the boat as he picked up the oars, I just encouraged him to dip them in the water to see what would happen. And voila! What a sweetie!

    Now here is someting interesting and Nikita would find this interesting – I am scorpio (sag. cusp), he is cancer (July 2), and he is incredibly sensitive yet very masculine. He responds to my feeling messages with feeling messages!

  400.  #401Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Dorothea, I have read and thought about your issue.
    Generally, in the world of coaching and counselling, if you find you are setting up your own roadblocks to making progress on something you seem to want, then you are not quite ready to do it yet. You know where you are with your goal. As I recall, you are quite young and you do have many many years ahead of you for doing more degrees.

    It has taken me three months to give myself permission not to be out of debt and to stop flogging myself for messing up on my own overly ambitious goal. I have been terribly angry with myself. And it affected my drive and many other aspects of my life. I feel sad but releived to fess-up to the harshness that I treated myself to – all bad. I learned something on siren island this summer as I experimented with everyone here, I became more compassionate to others, but I wasn’t very compassionate toward myself. My head knows that I can only be authentically compassionate toward others if I am compassionate to myself first. But my heart needed to catch-up to where my head is. Feels to me like I just might be ok now.

    Maybe my thought is helpful for you – practice a little compassion for yourself first.

  401.  #402Dorothea on December 13, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    thanks lizzie for your response
    i am 26 in a week. is that young still? i dunno.

    i am afraid of making people around me angry. i left my last job where i was very valued saying i would be leaving for grad school so it was best for me to go now when the transition would be smoother. i don’t want my old boss, who became a dear friend, to realize that i mostly just didn’t want to work there anymore.

    I am afraid of pissing my uncle off. i don’t want him to think i am a loser.

    i trust myself to realize i am not ready, even if it’s cuz i slacked for a while. but i don’t feel good about the facing anger or feeling embarrassed part. blahhh.

  402.  #403Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Oh, Lizzie, I agree completely! I am 48, so I’m dealing with pretty much the same group as you.

    “6) the little gems hidden in the weeds who have no idea what they are doing”

    🙂 Yes, there are some lovely gems! And this reminds me of that Keith Urban song: “If I knew what I was doing, I’d be doing it right now.” They DO need some encouragement. Jonathon Aslay (the dating coach)and I had a lil discussion about that recently, too, and he said that. I think he’s around 50…? He actually has that written into his dating profile.

    Thanks! I feel excited now!

  403.  #404Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Yes, Dorothea, 26 is young. 🙂

  404.  #405Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Dorothea – sweet girl you are incredibly young, and delightfully wize; I feel honoured to recieve your insights. Here are some script ideas to help you get started – I am sure others here will help build good material for you….

    I have given a great deal of thought to pathway of my future, the commitment and sacrifices that I will need to make and the sacrifices that others who believe in me, are also making. It is important that I make a slight shift in the timing so that I can capitalize on some opportunities that are available for me if I use the next 12 months to pave the way for me to get a lot of funding in place for my PHD. If I do it with thought, I will be able to work with a Professor on funded research topics that will not only offset my financial investment, but will also help with my studies in my area of choice.

    Uncle, by taking the prep-course, I have learned a great deal about the process and how to better access the resources available and what I need to be successful. It was one of the most valuable things I have done . Your help means a lot to me.

    So the plan is…I am going to re-sit the entrance exam to get a higher mark so that I can get a TA or whatever…. at …..

    how is that to start???

  405.  #406Luzydel on December 13, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    I had to “break” one rule and I am lad I did. “fling” guy started to comment about me being his “GF” and that I should not be in a dating site. I told him until I have the type of commitment that I want, I will not stop dating. He said “sounds good I guess”.

    Today I was feeling anxious and I sent him an email saying that I do not want to make Judgements of him again and that I did not want to go back to the games and the chasing again and feeling insecure; that if he really meant all he said then he should do something about it and show me, other wise I cannot stop and wait for him…

    Yesterday I had another call from a guy I went on five dates last year, nothing intimate ever happened with this guy not even a kiss. He asked me where am I standing right now and how do I feel about him calling back after a year, I said that I figured something must be going on with his life and decided to leave it alone. He said he was going through divorce and that it was not fair to bring all that drama to me, so he just decided to concentrate on solving his issues…so I don’t even know if I like this guy I kind of forgot how he looks like lol, but hey he initiated the contact again and he is a nice person. so who knows.

    I don’t believe in getting back to people you dated before, I believe they are gone for a reason, but I decided to do things a ‘bit different this time around…

  406.  #407Lucy on December 13, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Dorothea – “i know in my heart i don’t want to apply for grad school yet.”

    I say follow your heart.

  407.  #408Lizzie on December 13, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Dorothea – building on Lucy

    I know in my heart I am not ready for grad school yet, it is on the horizon, just not tomorrow.

  408.  #409Dorothea on December 13, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    thank you very much to both of you
    i am going to think about this for another 20 hours or so, and then make a decision.

  409.  #410Katnina on December 13, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    I feel curious-can any sirens give insight into relationships between Aquarius woman and Libra man, and Aquarius woman and Scorpio man?
    Or advise where I can learn more about this?
    Thank you!

  410.  #411Gigi on December 13, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Hi Katnina,

    I like the oracle website for love compatibility:

  411.  #412Katnina on December 13, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    Thank you, Gigi, I will check it out now!

  412.  #413Deb on December 13, 2010 at 10:46 pm


    If you get accepted, you may very well be able to defer enrollment until next year. If you don’t apply at all, you won’t have the option.

    Can you articulate (here or just to yourself) the reasons that you want to go to graduate school? There are many excellent reasons to do it and many not-so-excellent ones…

    I guess I point this out because I think a few (but not all) of my reasons weren’t the greatest. I felt it was expected of me, that it was the next “natural step,” and like it was a safe and familiar setting for me. I love my study subject, but I wasn’t yet sure how much I would like it running my own entire project.

    You’re right – it IS a big deal and a lot to consider! It was great to read other’s suggestions about following your intuition. I’ve been trying to practice using my intuition more, even for the most “logical” decisions like this. I usually have to get really quiet to hear it, but its there, and yours is too. If the answer isn’t what you expect, remember that it only tells you what to do in the moment.

    Good luck girl!!!

  413.  #414Leo on December 13, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    So cool!

    Hi ladies!

    I just feel like posting my new baby step!

    So, my man works night shift and we usually have email contact before i go to bed at night. We often write back and forth (but mostly when I initiated – sent the first email).
    So i stopped initiating and for the past weeks we werent writing many email when he was at work. But: I always sent him the daily “good night” email saying I would be going to bed now (and then i was even waiting for a response).
    I wasnt really able to stop that cause I was telling myself “You always sent him emails before you went to bed…for the past…3 years…” (most of the times).

    And then, finally, last night I was sitting and reading a good book and then I got really tired. So i decided to go to bed. So i just turned the computer off cause i was really tired and didnt feel like delaying to go to my bed.
    I didnt write him! ( I know it sounds stupid… but for me it was soooo hard to do – better – to not do.)
    And i didnt think about it further like “is he gonna notice? or call instead?” I just went to bed!

    And now, in the morning, we were IMing some after he got hom and I got up. He told me that he had been thinking of me the whole night!
    He asked what my day is gonna look like and he said he is off of work on friday and asked when I’ve got my last class on friday.

    I feel so happy…
    I mean…he does ask about my day and stuff but he hasnt said to me that he was thinking of me the whole night …for like a while.

    And on facebook I saw that he commented on a post of a friend who said “dvds, a large bed and nothing to worry about” and my man posted:” Yes!Awesome! But: Grab a nice gal, too, and be happy!”

    I feel happy and valued and glad and relieved and happy and more happy.
    I know he loves me but through those little things I again feel appreciated.

    Well, I will keep up with my baby steps, even if it takes a while for me to do it!

    Oh, and by that I found out again… that man truely think differently. I mean… I would have wondered “why isnt she writing? is something wrong? what did i do?” But he totally doesnt think that way. He might think “oh, she isnt writing, so she prolly fell asleep cause she was really tired (=nice taking care of herself)”

    This feels so awesome!

  414.  #415Meemee on December 13, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Dear Sirens
    I am back from the trip and back to office. I feel relaxed and good after the trip.
    I want to share something which is perplexing me.
    X came and talked to me yesterday. I told him I dont want to talk to him now that both of us know it was only sex and I feel angry and upset about it. Then he got into a long conversation. The content of the conversation is this:
    He did not mean it when he said he is interested only in sex. He was trying to irritate me and hurt me because he thought we were fighting and wanted to stop the fight by telling me the most hurting thing. He apologized for saying that. He said he understands that i am hurt and angry. But I should trust his words and believe that he didn’t mean his words. He wanted to make peace. He said he loves me. When I told him I don’t want to be treated second class and set aside and I don’t like it when I am not treated with respect. He said I can take his words that he will try and make things better. He will treat me with respect and will treat like a man would treat a woman. He tried talking to me but he saw that the conversation is not taking us anywhere etc etc
    This conversation went on for a while. At times he said he lost his capacity for judgment and I should decide what to do. Then he was saying he feels like he is in a Jewish inquisition. His vibes were changing so constantly that I could not tell what was happening.

    I am feeling confused. I feel happy that he talked to me. But I feel very very skeptical. He was saying many things and was going from one side to another.

    I dont know whether he has changed or if he is doing this to make things seem okay.

    I feel confused.
    Need suggestions.
    Love you

  415.  #416Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Meemee – I’m confused what you feel confsued about?

    ok… the guy likes you… now that you are setting boundaries… he is going to like you MORE

    and.. he has treated you badly in the past… so he doesn not know exactly how to treat you well unless you are clear about what you don’t want. clear and consistently firm

    you are now dating many men and flirting with them… you don’t accept to meet with men except for formal romantic dates planned by him — until he is asking you out on such a date, he is not something to pay attention to

  416.  #417Meemee on December 13, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Can a man say “I am interested only in sex” just to hurt a woman?
    He said “That day you were fishing for something terrible and I wanted to say the thing that will hurt you most. I didnt mean it. And I know deep inside you, you also know that I did not mean it”
    Can a man really do such a thing? This is where I am getting confused.
    He promised to be nice and “live upto what is expected from a man”.
    But I feel terribly skeptical.

  417.  #418Meemee on December 13, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    RE 413
    Well. He wants to meet me and may be wants to have sex with me. He likes me alright. He stated that too.
    But I am not feeling convinced that he is understanding my boundaries and respecting them. I feel he wants to make peace because he does not want to continue in the present situation.
    May be I am thinking too much.

    But you are right. Now I have boundaries. If I stick to them, and if I do not do anything my boundaries do not permit, things should go fine, right?

    The physical chemistry between us is strong. I am afraid of that. I don’t want to meet him and end up in bed before I feel ready for it 🙁 :(. That will make me feel bad.


  418.  #419Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Meemee – I would not meet him for anything except a formal date OUT.

  419.  #420Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    and I would ABSOUTELY start circular dating

    casually for cofee with men that ask

    and smiling at men i meet

    this is VERY important in a situation where i am getting over being hung up on a man in a toxic situation… otherwise I’m going to feel so overwhelmed with the situattion and the man… I wouldnt be able to deal and take care of myself well

  420.  #421The Nikita Show on December 13, 2010 at 11:50 pm


    Dear X,

    Do or Do Not, there is No Try.

  421.  #422Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    I have taken care of myself today!

    I ate walnuts when my brain was feeling undernourished

    I just did my PBS t-tapp stretch before bed

    I did a couple hours of EFT and used a cool new technique of pushing the body holding the thouths and belief i no longer want OUT my body and infront of me and tapping while looking at it

    I paid attention to my feelings talkiung to men

    I ate yummy stuff overall

    I meditated for a long time

    I drank mucho water

    I updated my blog

    I texted a couple girls

    I did the myself exercise and did not post a ridiculing post to another poster but isntead did a stranger exercise to connect with the part of me that communicates that way

    I noticed i feel SCARED when in a tense exchange

    I tweaked my T-tapp stretch with something i didn’t notice before

    I brushed and showered! when i felt REALLY low energy

  422.  #423Daria on December 13, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    i wrote a couple poems

    i found goddess info about pigs!

  423.  #424The Nikita Show on December 14, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Tapped for hours?

    After two hours my face doesn’t enjoy my fingers as much,

    My skull feels jostled lol

    Do you?

  424.  #425Lorelei on December 14, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Hi Meemee

    Welcome back! I am glad to hear you had such a lovely trip away. It sounds as if you were able to be relaxed and happy while you were away from X.

    I feel very uneasy hearing about X’s conversation. It feels as if he will say anything to try to get you to do what he wants. It seems . . as if he will say the complete opposite of what he said before.

    Last time, he said (summarising) “I am only interested in sex.” And this fits with his behaviour of meeting only for secret sex, not caring if sex hurt you physically, laughing about you with his ‘girlfriends,’ not calling you a ‘girlfriend’ etc. I don’t know if he was saying it to hurt you. It sounds like a good summary of what his behaviour was saying to you.

    But this time, now you are back, realising you are more distant from him and have your new boundaries, he says (summarising) “I didn’t mean it, I love you.”

    But what is his behaviour saying? What would he have to be doing for his behaviour, his actions, to be saying that he loves you? In Toxic Men Programme, it says we need to be very cautious, or even run away fast, when a man’s behaviour does not match with his words . . A man who loves us and is good for us, will make us feel good. We will not have to fret and worry all the time, we just start to relax.

    If he says one thing, then the contradicts himself totally, I would not know what to believe. Why should you believe one thing he says, rather than another? The problem with people who say one thing, and then say the opposite, is that we end up not knowing which is true. And that makes us feel bad.

    The thing that makes me feel most uneasy, though, is when X says, ” I wanted to say the thing that will hurt you most. I didnt mean it. And I know deep inside you, you also know that I did not mean it.”

    I feel angry with him, because it sounds like he is saying, ” I know better than you, Meemee, what is going on inside you. I know you better than you know yourself. I know that deep inside you, you also know I did not mean it.”

    My feelings of anger towards him are because he DOES NOT KNOW what you feel deep inside you. And it feels rude, and disrespectful, and controlling to tell you what you “know”. But some people (men and women) do try to tell us what to feel, what to think. This is not love. This is not respect. When men have tried to tell me to believe their idea of my inner feelings and thoughts, it was always in a relationship that hurt me and made me feel bad.

    What if love allowed you to feel, to think, to know and to be what is true and real for you? What if love meant the other person gently discovering what was true and real in your deep feelings and thoughts? What if love meant the other person honouring your authenticity, whether or not they agree with you? Your inner knowing is your truth. No-one else can tell you what it is. No-one else can tell you if it is right or wrong.

    Your deep feelings are yours to know, and to speak. No man, no-one, should be telling you what you feel and think. No man should be trying to tell your inner self how to feel, what to think. Only you can know what you’re feelings and “knowings” are.

    This has got to be a rather long reply. Please Meemee, don’t let X take away your Siren sense that you are able to feel what you feel, and know what you know . . and that is your truth than no-one can take away from you.

  425.  #426The Nikita Show on December 14, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Siren song

  426.  #427Daria on December 14, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Nikita – it used to, I used to tap very vigurously. I even gave myself a big blister once on the karate chop

    lately i’ve been tapping barely a touch, softly and lovingly, and using a soft and loving tone

    I am modeling it after Jaqui Crooks

  427.  #428Lorelei on December 14, 2010 at 12:26 am

    I have to go offline any minute now, but Meemee @ 414, if he’s offering a respectful meeting for coffee or other drink in a public place, or a meal, or something that shows he might he interested in you, rather than the chance for sex, that might be do-able. That might be different.

    If he’s offering, or pressurising you to meet in private, I am afraid, I feel afraid, that it will only be for more conversations where he tries to convince to to believe him, and to believe that he knows better than you what you want. Or he will hope that you will give in and have sex with him.

    Please, please, please look after yourself. You are worthy of care, respect, gentleness. You deserve conversations with a man, where he loves finding out what you feel, and what you think. You deserve a relationship that does not exhaust and confuse you . . that does not pressurise you . .

    How to word it, if you want to . .?

    I feel overwhelmed . . I don’t want to meet in private/in my room/ wherever . . I feel confused . . . I feel pressured . . And now I want some space . . I don’t want to talk. Goodbye. . .

  428.  #429