The Circular Dating Argument

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There was so much discussion here around the “boyfriend” issue in this post around Circular Dating from a man’s point of view – I started to comment, and it turned into a new post…so here it is:

This is so great!  Thank you, Evan Marc Katz for jumping in here so brilliantly.  I LOVE that we have this disagreement – and I think I’ve found, if not “common ground,” at least a gray area where we can each do the most good for every woman from our different points of view. So, to start – I’d just like to clarify what Circular Dating is:

Circular Dating as a Tool is not about “dating.” It’s about interacting with everyone – man, woman and child, so you can practice my tools of opening up and allowing love in and being vulnerable and sharing your feeling state – until it becomes automatic and your self-esteem soars.

The argument here is taking Circular Dating to ACTUAL dating, which means accepting dates.

Which might mean accepting having coffee with a man right there at Starbucks who you just met; it might mean accepting a night at the opera; it might mean lunch with a man who heard about you through a friend; it might mean going out for coffee with a man after a class you both attended; it might mean going out for dinner and dancing and sleeping with him.

There’s a LOT of room in there – whether you’re “dating around” or have been dating one man for many for months.

Also – It’s one thing to talk about telling a man who’s your “boyfriend” that you’re going to accept casual dates with other men (without sex) – (I did this, and it worked for me) – and of course he’d be mad, and he might drop you (but I doubt that – and since we’ll never ever know that for sure, it will stay a theoretical argument) – and another thing altogether to date great numbers of men until you – YOU – decide to stop actually “dating” all but one man.

And so the main question here is: When and how does this happen?

Because the scenario I want you avoid is the one where exclusivity is “assumed.” It used to be, we women assumed exclusivity and seriousness if we slept with a man.  And that is not going to work, unless you talk about it beforehand.

Many of us women “assume” we’re in an exclusive relationship after any number of dates (sometimes even one) where there was a lot of “connection” and “future talk.”  And we’ve discovered that doesn’t work.

And another assumption is made by a man who takes you on a date 3 times – or even many dates over 3 or 4 months and automatically “assumes” he’s the only one you’re dating – without talking about it, or asking for your exclusivity.

So – unless you want to be the one who asks “What is this relationship” – which I NEVER recommend – there has to be some standard you set for yourself.

And what I recommend is that – until a man ASKS – in words – for exclusivity of any kind from you….make NO assumptions. And Circular Date actually.  Real dates with real men.

Now – once he ASKS for exclusivity – you’ve got a choice.  You can say “Sure.”  But then – what does that mean? 

When do you allow the Girlfriend thing to happen?

 And why?

And do you discuss it so that you both know what that means?

How do you make it an “on purpose” thing with ramifications instead of something you just “fall into”?

How do you recognize if a man is just “assuming”?

How do you know if this man is a very, very good boyfriend – but really, somewhere inside him (perhaps hidden even to him) he knows you’re not the one? (The best boyfriend I ever had was a man who knew I was not the one – it didn’t prevent the heartache when I finally got the message. And months afterwards, he suddenly thought he’d changed his mind, but it was too late – I’d found “another boyfriend.”)

And using Evan’s wonderful ideas here – how do you know if what he’s doing or not doing that isn’t working for you is discussable and changeable – or if you should leave him?

How do you know if a big reason things aren’t proceeding at the rate you’d like is YOU!  Your instinctive, subconscious habits of closing yourself off emotionally and pushing him away without knowing it?

How long do you use Modern Siren Tools before you leave?

When do you sit down and “talk” about the relationship and what you need that you’re not getting?

It would be wonderful, if after 8 months of exclusivity you realized that he’s not calling you enough or giving you what you want – and the simple thing would be to just say “This isn’t working for me, I wish you luck in your search, and walk out the door,” but what if by then you feel totally invested in him and bonded to him hormonally and the idea of leaving him feels like a knife through the heart?

And what about those 8 months?

So – basically – how do we respect a man’s timetable, as Evan suggests, without blowing our own need to not waste time?

And – my answer is Circular Dating. Evan’s answer is to walk away.

I say – walking away is brilliant…and yet – if you don’t feel strong enough to do that – what then? What can we do to help you baby-step your way to enough inner strength that you can reclaim your power and walk away?

And – if you’re to wait until a man knows what he wants for up to 2 years – how do you stay sane?

Basically – we have coaches with different jobs, here.  Evan is here to lay down the law, and give you the information and guidance you need to make the best decisions.

I’m here to help you get the inner strength to LISTEN to yourself as you make these decisions, and to keep you from staying stuck from habit and fear.

When you can’t or won’t leave him because it’s too frightening and painful…baby steps is the only way here.  And Circular Dating is a baby step.

The simplest thing of all is simply to say “I feel incredible being asked to be your girlfriend, and I know that I can get really, really attached to a man if I’m exclusive, and it’s hard for me to stay in balance. I can get insecure and high maintenance, and start putting pressure on you and the relationship – and I don’t want that to happen.”

I love this discussion. And I stick to my guns, and Evan will stick to his – and yet – there’s a place where you can use both of us….

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I have to wonder when this concept will truly be accepted.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    ” I did this, and it worked for me) – and of course he’d be mad, and he might drop you (but I doubt that – and since we’ll never ever know that for sure, it will stay a theoretical argument) – and another thing altogether to date great numbers of men until you – YOU – decide to stop actually “dating” all but one man.”

    I love this because I get to accept that I decide.

  3.  #3Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Rori I appreciate what you are saying here but laying down the law does not sound like something I am willing to accept. I have to work through the reason why but I feel I am the one to make the decision for my life and the reason why I prefer to use baby steps to increase my inner strength.

  4.  #4life_is_too_short_to... on April 7, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Rori writes:

    “I say – walking away is brilliant…and yet – if you don’t feel strong enough to do that – what then? What can we do to help you baby-step your way to enough inner strength that you can reclaim your power and walk away?”

    Yes, what can we get to the Samantha (from SITC)

    “When I’m done with ’em, I’m done with ’em”

    healthy attitude, which I love.

    I think I’m doing pretty good, lately. My “first love” heartbreak of last year made me unbelievably strong!

    A good friend of mine observed that among our friends, I do a pretty good job of moving on before too much damage takes place!

    Allow yourself a little misery, and then realize, you probably dodged a bullet, and freed up more space for the man who would be king.

  5.  #5Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Mercedes I too like your question to Evan from the previous post and your logic in looking at the scenario. Reason being I am not open to someone else laying down the law for my life as Rori mentions as Evan’s role. Experience teaches wisdom.

  6.  #6Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    LITS I think it is Carol Allen who says “those rejections are God’s protection”.

  7.  #7Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    hey ladies 🙂

    i’m not sure why but i feel good about ALL of it…Rori’s and Evan’s…i think they are both great and both resonate with me

    LonePlum…loved your post to boomer on the other thread…

    Camile…yes i have casual to committed 🙂 and i just read another eletter of CC’s and feel interested in the attraction ebook (not sure what it’s called…i can’t remember right now) but i think it’s the one you mentioned 🙂

    FW…i was reading through the other thread and you asked for my input on one of CC’s eletters but it seemed too late too respond…since it was yesterday morning… 🙂

  8.  #8Mercedes on April 7, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Gotta subscribe to this one too…

  9.  #9Lisi on April 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    I like Circular Dating because I don’t want closure.

    On the Myers Briggs personality analysis, I am a P (ENFP, to be exact). That means I avoid making decisions, and I feel more comfortable keeping my options open. I don’t like closed doors. I like options.

    So — Circular Dating meets my needs. When I had the convo with M. this week, I told him I’m not comfortable having sex with him at this time.

    This is because he doesn’t stay in contact, and goes 4 days without so much as a text message. We’ve communicated. I’ve said that doesn’t work for me in a sexual relationship.

    I didn’t close the door totally. I just let him know how I feel today. Which is the only thing I can truthfully say.


  10.  #10Lisi on April 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Meanwhile — M. isn’t the only person I’m dating.

    I had a first date this week with R. He was very excited about meeting and looking forward to it and we had a good conversation.

    He told me: “you’re not dating anyone else of my calibur.”

    I answered: “what, exactly, makes you ‘of your calibur?'”

    His answer was all about having a good job and having money. That’s part of the package, but not the whole package.

    Anyway, he texted me yesterday morning, and I responded positively about an hour later.

    Haven’t heard since. Will I? Who knows.

    I’m kinda disappointed in my Siren Vibe, tho. Why aren’t they more interested?

    Hot Musician Guy seems to be interested in someone else — based on his comments to her on Facebook. She’s about a size zero.

    I’ve known here for years.

    I have a conundrum about femininity here. She’s very feminine, and the type that draws guys.

    But, I don’t particularly like her, and am not drawn to her vibe. I don’t really respect her, don’t find her intelligent, funny or particularly interesting.

    I’d rather be intelligent, funny and interesting.

    It seems a lot of dishcloths really know how to draw the men.

    But, I’m totally not into that type of female. Actually, I have kind of an “eeeewww” response to them. And I fail to see why men find it so alluring.

    So — is that what’s off with my siren vibe?

    I can’t attract it if I despise it. Them’s the rules.

    So, I’m puzzling about it.


  11.  #11Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    ok…ladies…i’m pretty sure only time will tell with this scenario but i want to share and get some feedback…

    first… basically all of my “relationships” have been sexual right away and i’ve never worried about men leaving because of it (but i have ya that was probably too soon)

    so now with hotpilot…we have dated for a month…he asked me for exclusivity and we had a great heart to heart about it…and every make out session gets hotter and hotter but we have not had sex yet…and he gets to a certain point and stops himself (which is good) but it feels confusing because i’ve never had a man not pursue full on sex!!! never!!.. like i’m the one wanting more than he is…wha???? but i did tell him i wasn’t ready last friday night…but that was then…and i think i don’t feel ready because i don’t know that he is ready and that confuses me…i don’t want to feel like i want it more than he does…just writing that makes me feel weird 🙁

    1. he asked for exclusivity before sex
    2. still haven’t had sex

    when i look at hotpilot especially with his clothes off i am sooo attracted to him…probably more than ANYONE i’ve ever dated…i’ve never been like that with a man before…just turned on by looking at him

    my NV’s are going a little crazy today wondering if something happened to him

    but im not second guessing myself or my sexual appeal…so that’s good

    it makes me miss my pipeliner 🙁 i miss him and our intoxicating sex…yum! he texts me every now and then that he misses me…it makes me feel sad

    i know that was kind of all over the place…but i’ve never felt like this before…around sex…it’s usually cause i had it too soon not because its NOT happening lol

    each time we “get hot and heavy ;)” we go further and further but……what makes a man not pursue sex??

    and everything else is “perfect” like calling me, taking me out making me feel cared for, adored, sexy…safe..

    i feel nervous posting this…but here goes…

  12.  #12Mercedes on April 7, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    Evan: In case you don’t see it on the other article, I’m putting this here as well. Any words?

    (and please ignore my sarcastic attitude on the previous post…I was having fun…) 🙂

    Evan: Do you think it’s a timeline or circumstance thing that has us all speaking a different language here? I’m curious because circular dating worked for me. My guy had cheated and I left him and started dating other men. When he wanted me back, I said “NO” (just like that. all caps in my voice) and kept dating other men. As he continued to work on himself (not seeing other women) and continued to want to try things with me again, we became friends and I started seeing him socially while dating other men. As we grew closer, we began actually dating again and I was still seeing other men. He started filling up my time (and complaining about these other men) so much I couldn’t possibly date other guys because he was keeping me very busy and wasn’t about to lose me again. He wanted me back in his life so much that he tried everything in his power to make ME decide I didn’t want anyone else. Even through that time, I was always (I do mean always) a flirt (circular dating at a different level). He soon made a comittment to me that has not faltered once. I don’t date others anymore but that happened gradually as he “won” me back. I’m still a flirt (come on…I can’t help it!!) and he and I are ROCK solid. But he did have to step up his own speed of self examination and work hard to get me back because I wasn’t about to wait around for a guy who cheated and who couldn’t seem to decide what he wanted out of life/relationships.

    There are other circumstances as well. What about two people who are just beginning to date? He wants something “someday” and so does she but neither of them are ready for that with each other. Should they be exclusive anyway until the both figure it out?

    What about the couple who have been dating for 10 years and he isn’t a player and does want a future but he’s not sure if he’s ready for marriage. Should she not go out there and try to find someone who is sure (because 10 years is a long time to sit around trying to decide on ANYTHING)?

    Is there a timeline? I can understand why you don’t like circular dating (trust me, when I was doing it, J didn’t like it either, but he also “knew” – probably without really knowing consciously – that he was going to have to figure it out pretty soon because dates were not hard for me to come by) but at what point then would you suggest a woman stop seeing other men while her “boyfriend” decides what he wants? How long would you suggest two people date exclusively while one desperately wants marriage/family and the other doesn’t know? Are there any circumstances where you would suggest a woman circular date? How would you suggest a woman who wants marriage NOT pin those hopes on one man who isn’t ready and risk having her heart broken? And if a guy REALLY does care about a woman and want her all to himself, is there anything wrong with that man taking the initiative to fill up her time so that she CAN’T circular date or should there be times when she sits home alone waiting for him?

    I would really like to know, from a guy’s point of view (one who doesn’t agree with circular dating)…what should a woman do if she wants marriage and her guy isn’t sure and how long should she do it? And please…don’t suggest she have “the talk” with him instead because most men say they want to know what’s on our minds, but if what’s on our minds is “marriage and babies within the next nine months”….he doesn’t really want to know.

    Very curious about this Evan. VERY. I hope you’re still around to answer…

    Much Love,

  13.  #13Ella on April 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    I feel quite good.

    Teaching a class tomorrow am – I hope it goes well as I haven’t taught a fitness class for a while!

    Should be ok as I have prepared.

    And then off on a long drive ready to do my Zumba training course on Saturday.

    Yay… then back to my lovely life hopefully with some inspiration and a new wave of motivation.


  14.  #14tinque on April 7, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Lisi – Be who you are. There’s nothing not feminine about intelligent, funny, and interesting.

    These men are all for practice, and the more you practice, the more clear you will get on what you want and don’t want, and the higher quality men who are totally taken with you will show up.

    Did you get a chance to try relaxing into orgasm yet?


  15.  #15luzydel on April 7, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Circular dating, outs men to work for a woman they REALLY like. Men don’t like to put effort at the beginning of a courtship, so the more available we become for them the better.

    Now I know that circular dating is the answer for me, just like Mercedes says, if a man does not want me to have dates with other men, then he should fill my time and spend time with me and creates moments with me.

    I made the mistake of becoming exclusive too son because a guy asked. He asked because he did not want to work hard for me. It was easy for him to know that I was home waiting for him rather than him making the time and effort to come see me.

    If a guy in not happy with that, then he can leave or step up.

  16.  #16Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    ok…hotpilot just called and i always feel good after we talk…and now my NV’s are quiet around the whole sex issue…

    and my clarity is…this could be AWESOME! to not focus on the sex part…let him go at his own pace and see what happens and enjoy moving at a slower pace and enjoy not thinking (oops..probably had sex too soon) and just enjoy getting to know each other’s bodies and keeping the sexual tension

    this feels really good to me…i like’s new and it could be a REALLY good thing

  17.  #17Evan Marc Katz on April 7, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    I appreciate the words of support from the women who were kind enough to offer them.

    The reason you should listen to what I have to say is that I speak a very basic male truth. I’m not a manly man, as I’ve been accused of. I’m liberal. I’m a feminist. I’ve never cheated on a woman. I read more than gamble or go to strip clubs. And, frankly, I communicate better than any woman I’ve ever dated. So be careful before you label me anything untrue – simply because I “trigger” you.

    Fact is, if Rori said this to me: “I feel incredible being asked to be your girlfriend, and I know that I can get really, really attached to a man if I’m exclusive, and it’s hard for me to stay in balance. I can get insecure and high maintenance, and start putting pressure on you and the relationship – and I don’t want that to happen,” I would be completely dumbfounded.

    I’ve said that I want to be your boyfriend and want to be exclusive with you and you’re telling me that you get crazy when you have a boyfriend? Um, okay… What do you suggest? That you date other guys to protect your heart so you don’t get needy and attached? Sorry. That sort of defeats the commitment part of being your boyfriend.

    As for Mercedes series of thoughtful questions, I’m not going to delve into all of them, but I will say this:

    The distinction that I can make to clear up the gap between you Sirens and me is this:

    If you want to be married, you should not invest ANY time in a man who doesn’t know if he ever wants to get married.

    What I’M talking about is playing it cool with a man who wants to get married, but can’t say for sure whether he wants to marry YOU. And in those circumstances, you simply CANNOT put pressure on him OR Circular Date because both techniques will backfire.

    That’s literally all I’m saying.

    If I’m your devoted boyfriend, you don’t start seeing other guys simply because I can’t promise you a ring. Dating is the process by which we BOTH decide if we’re in it for the long haul. And for those of you who made the false claim that this gives men all the power: Bullshit.

    You can break up with a guy after one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, if you decide that he’s not Mr. Right. Same as he can do with you. We are are equals. Men do not have power over you that you do not grant them.

    And since both men and women SHOULD spend at least 1-2 years before they truly KNOW that a relationship can make it for 30 years, I would suggest making that relationship as easy, nurturing and drama-free as possible. But if you’re going to perpetually question my intentions and tell me you’re freaking out and have to date other guys, it’s gonna drive MOST men in the opposite direction.

    Sorry. I call it like I see it.

    But I love ya and hope you find the right path for you.

  18.  #18LD on April 7, 2011 at 4:05 pm


    I have had alot of men tell me I was sexually intimidating and wait until they felt like they were comfortable enough to truly “deliver” sexually. You are such a siren and a goddess, maybe he is a little nervous? He probably thinks you deserve for it to be perfect and wants to wait until the timing is just right for that. or maybe he loves building up the tension until you both just cannot stand it anymore and there’s no longer any way to stop it from happening…. : )

    I’ve even had non drinkers slam drinks just to get enough “liquid courage” to kiss me….

  19.  #19Lilybelle on April 7, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    By the looks of things, I have a lot of catching up to do.

    But, before I start..I want to say hi to all of you Sirens and hope yor week has been excellent.

    Tuscon was cold.. A very strange weather pattern according to the residents.


  20.  #20Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    LD…thank you!! 🙂 i feel good about this i’m glad you shared that with me!! 🙂 i kind of get the feeling he is nervous about his performance…which is flattering because i’m so turned on by him…

    and he kept giving me compliments…so i think you are on to something..i feel better so that’s what matters lol

  21.  #21luzydel on April 7, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    In my case, If I have a guy who is nice to me, is not afraid to show me to his family and friends, make plans with me, takes care of me when I am sick and LOVES me, I do not need to CD. Because for me that is commitment, I don’t need the ring to prove it.

  22.  #22LD on April 7, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    2nd date with HotArmyGuy tonight. he said he couldn’t wait until our date Saturday night to see me again (last date was Monday night) and asked if I could meet him for a drink

    : )

  23.  #23Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    LD…ooooohh….i’m so excited to hear about…especially after the first one! 🙂 i know we aren’t supposed to have favorites but hotarmyguy is my favorite for you 😉

  24.  #24Tina on April 7, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Reading all this makes me feel that maybe I should have CD’ed. I was until a few days ago in a 10 month relationship. Exclusive, meeting families, families met each other and so forth. I already started dreaming about the wedding dress and so forth.

    Suddenly a few days ago he told me that he feels that we should take a break in order to think about us. He felt that I have the expectations to get married soon, my family and his family as well. Family events are coming up and his family wanted to know if we celebrate together or not.

    He clearly felt under pressure. It hurts. It seems like eh got cold feets. He is in his late 40’s never married before. I am in my 30’s and look like in my 20s and am divorced with a child. I am devastated and feel heartbroken. I love him. I know he loves me too but not enough in order to get married. Our relationship was fun and amazing. He mentioned that he would have continued dating but know what I want.

    Well what should I do now???? Just let it go and give him the space he asked for? Everyone around me keeps telling me that I should have know from the beginning based on his age and never married before that it is a red flag…In the beginning I did some CD until exclusivity was asked and I enjoyed being exclusive and being everywhere on my and his side.

    I would love to dream that he comes back with a ring…I might sound like a dreamer.


  25.  #25Tina on April 7, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Reading all this makes me feel that maybe I should have CD’ed. I was until a few days ago in a 10 month relationship. Exclusive, meeting families, families met each other and so forth. I already started dreaming about the wedding dress and so forth.

    Suddenly a few days ago he told me that he feels that we should take a break in order to think about us. He felt that I have the expectations to get married soon, my family and his family as well. Family events are coming up and his family wanted to know if we celebrate together or not.

    He clearly felt under pressure. It hurts. It seems like eh got cold feets. He is in his late 40’s never married before. I am in my 30’s and look like in my 20s and am divorced with a child. I am devastated and feel heartbroken. I love him. I know he loves me too but not enough in order to get married. Our relationship was fun and amazing. He mentioned that he would have continued dating but know what I want.

    Well what should I do now???? Just let it go and give him the space he asked for? Everyone around me keeps telling me that I should have know from the beginning based on his age and never married before that it is a red flag…In the beginning I did some CD until exclusivity was asked and I enjoyed being exclusive and being everywhere on my and his side.

    I would love to dream that he comes back with a ring…I might sound like a dreamer.

    Any advice and help is appreciated

  26.  #26Nita on April 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    thank you to everyone who responded to my question about expressing negative feelings when first dating….heres another thing: when i consider dating men who im not that attracted to i feel really guilty and I feel strange. “what if i hurt him” “what if I lead him on?”, “I feel like Im taking advantage of this man’s time/ money because its not like i like him”…I start to think these things and then it doesnt go anywhere and I dont have dates and I stay at home:( Sometimes, if I am attracted I wonder “will he think Im playing games if I tell him Im dating others?” “will he think Im a slut?” does he think Im just taking advantage of him in more ways than one? ugh these thoughts stop me from giving dating opportunities a chance, also it stops me from explaining that Im dating more than just him and then I feel sneaky and secretive and anxious…any input??

  27.  #27Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Tina – is that you??? from pajama party days with AJ?

  28.  #28Nita on April 7, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    ok im really getting into this…when i am at my most confident and i express my feeling messages and im flirtacious many men have told me that im really sexy i feel great when im told this…its weird the things i practice with rori raye tools work so well its kind of scary…i dont know how to take it to the next level. ive never had a boyfriend (im 27) and i feel scared experimenting with these things. I dont know how to deal with the attention as far as how attractive i come off. and then I close off and back off. Its like that saying “be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.” I start to even panic what if he wants to commit eventually what if a man actually wants me? shouldnt I want this? why am I scared? probably because in high school i was a big dork and the guys I like would date me and then drop me for the girl who would give it up and be a slut. i feel annoyed at men and at myself

  29.  #29Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Nita…(((hugs)))) you are doing awesome…it’s all about babysteps…and finding what works for us…i would go through times where i felt guilty and then i would work through it and really enjoy myself on the dates and try not to think about where it was going… but after a certain amount of time if i couldn’t see it going somewhere i would end it…cause..i knew for sure by then

    Tina…(((hugs))) to you too…i am echoing J…is it you Tina from months ago??

  30.  #30Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Nita, I hope you get lots of good advice and yeah, that sounds like my high school too. Part of it is looking for a quality man and you get to choose what that means to you.

    And Tina- if it’s you or not you…I’m so sorry to hear of that, and yeah, it screamed red flag to me, too….but in hindsight of course. I don’t know what you’ll find to be the truth for you and the best thing for you – but 10 months of true intimacy sounds like it might have been kind of fun; and it’s not that long of an investment timewise, so now it’s just the heartache.

    The first thing Rori said to me when I came here was I’d had a 10 YEAR lesson in learning to love myself!


  31.  #31Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Hello, world. I give gratitude for my sweetie, my best loving self. Thank you.

    Me: They don’t care about my feelings.
    Sweetie: No, probably not. So?
    Me: OK, guess you’re right…so?

    Time is short so we will not waste it…well sometimes we do.


  32.  #32Nita on April 7, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    thanks Jilly and Jacqueline. I think I have to just take things one step at a time Im just so afraid of messing up! I studied the modern siren program like if it was a midterm haha! I analyze the way I am in dates as they are happening wondering if Im doing all the “right” things that Rori says but….Im buy doing this Im actually doing the opposite! Im not fully feeling, Im not even willing to say something “wrong.” Thats it, next guy im just gonna feel live the moment enjoy and see what the heck happens even if Im scared that hell actually like it…even if i like him or dont!haha

  33.  #33Boomer on April 7, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Jilly 7:

    “LonePlum…loved your post to boomer on the other thread…”

    Boomer didn’t love it so much.

    I feel embarrassed.

    I’m sure there are pearls of wisdom in there–LonePlum is quite wise.

    But as I read it it, my heart sank, I got a knot in my stomach, and I felt so…God, I don’t even know…stupid, an annoyance, the most ridiculous woman on Siren Island. It felt like a lecture to me. Without the support I needed/asked for.

    I suppose I need to accept the advice, as I asked for it, and I will reread it eventually, because I know there are lessons in there for me; but now, honestly, I’m not sure I can say much on here anymore.

  34.  #34Queenbee on April 7, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    LD – the more I read about your ‘kisses’, men needing ‘liquid courage’ and all the rest… I just keep thinking you must be SO HOT!!! LOL – loving it for you! Keep it up! 🙂

    Evan – thanks for sharing. You say:
    “If you want to be married, you should not invest ANY time in a man who doesn’t know if he ever wants to get married”.

    I love this! It helps. I was so used to going for unavailable men hoping I could change them – or that I was so fantastic there was no way they would keep up their crap to be without me – WRONG!

    For me now, unavailable also includes ‘LDR’. For some people it works. For me, I was avoiding real intimacy and working hard to get something.

    So your point is very good.

    Here is where your point falls short for me. You say:

    “What I’M talking about is playing it cool with a man who wants to get married, but can’t say for sure whether he wants to marry YOU. And in those circumstances, you simply CANNOT put pressure on him OR Circular Date because both techniques will backfire”.

    1) I don’t want to “play cool”. I don’t want to play anything – cool or other. That feels like stuffing and I don’t want to stuff. It feels disempowering and inauthentic.

    2) Not sure he wants to marry ME? I’m the yummy pie! I’m not willing to go 2, 3, 4 or 5 + infinity years in a relationship for him to MARRY SOMEONE ELSE. Coz that is the INEVITABLE with a man who want to marry but not sure it’s me.

    This is where CDing helps me to take care of myself (even find the man of my dreams) while he figures out what he wants. Coz I’m clear that I’m the yummy pie.

    Lastly –
    You say: “You can break up with a guy after one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, if you decide that he’s not Mr. Right. Same as he can do with you. We are are equals”.

    OK, thanks for that. However, I do not want to be equals with a man. I want to be cherished and adored. I want to be pursued and thought of as the ultimate prize. I’m not interested in being equals with a man. I want to be BETTER and everything that he wanted, needed and more.


  35.  #35sweetmandm on April 7, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Evan- I think that there are many other things at work here, than just the specific disagreement with CDing. When you come from a perspective of a 1-2 yr. timeline to be SURE about securing a 30 years run in a marriage, that would be one reason maybe you don’t understand the concept. That one to two or even 3-5 years has never been a sure timeline to secure the longevity of a good marriage, as proven by many of my family members, as well as friends who have been through divorce.

    It is about a changing of patterns in thinking and beahavior. There is clearly something wrong when women who are patient and drama free and nurturing and giving, intellegent, well educated, beautiful, sweet….I could go on and on, are passed up for marriage to women who are demanding and direct and even “bithchy.” Men have always come back after I have spent too long patiently waiting for them (some really good men I still believe) and if I had a dime for every one…….I would cut them loose after 1, 2, 3 years and they always come looking for me later. Well what are they coming back to and why? Why could they not get it together in such a lengthy time frame?! Do you know how many men married and not married ask me and a couple of other women I know, why are you not married? You are so beautiful and intelligent and loving etc…..
    I can’t believe it! What is wrong with this man that he won’t commit to you? Why can’t he see what he has? This continues man after man, year after year.
    I have also been told, blank____you are much more patient than I would be. I am talking about some really nice men here that I have been in relationship with and dated. They agreed with what I wanted when I had directly stated that I don’t want to date just to date and many had worked on something commited for some long periods. ??

    Now you don’t know me. You don’t know how I do relationships or dating. What would you suggest then for a 21 year run of the same outcome? The men need to change out there? I need to change? I would not be here continuing to work on myself if I was not into self improvement. I am a business owner. I am well educated. Know how to communicate fluently in 3 languages. I have gone so far with so much in my life, but this area (marriage) has not reached success.

    Are men lying when they say they want to be married and are genuinely good hearted men, who invest huge amounts of everything, but you never reach marriage with them?

    What do you think helps to break the pattern, if let’s say all of the above mentioned were certifiably true in fact? What tools whould you recommend that I use to aquire the movement and the shift from the old pattern, which is clearly not successful?

    We women, here, are not putting blame on the men.
    We are doing things differently with the focus of us and what is in our control. I have seen and experienced too many times that when we loose our patients and move on or out of the relationship, or away from our dating partner, their perspective changes. The moment they feel that they have something to loose. Many of us here, I’m thinking it is safe to say most of us, are looking for marriage, not a boyfriend. I have been experiencing for my self,things changing and shifting with the tools offered here, CDing being one of those. I am done being patient and waiting for good men to snap to, while 1-2 years go by in chunks. I am working on me and finally do it differently.

    This topic could be argued to no resolution I suppose, if you do not know the stories behind what brought us all here. If you don not know the whole of what we are working on and why we are practicing a collection of adopted tools here. Tools that are used together in compliment of one another, just as the repair of an automobile engine requires more that one tool for the restoration of the entire engine. So singling out one tool and highlighting just the one and discussing it’s importance or ineffectiveness is futile to the restoration of the entire engine!


  36.  #36sweetmandm on April 7, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Evan- With attention to your comment “But if you’re going to perpetually question my intentions and tell me you’re freaking out and have to date other guys, it’s gonna drive MOST men in the opposite direction.”
    ……are you talking from experience? Have you seen this backfire? Have you seen it drive men away?…..because I have not. I admittedly have never had the courage to do it like other women I have known! I have seen some pretty amazing things when men are told that the woman is ready to move forward with or without a man, WITHOUT ultimatum, but rather matter of factly. When women are done giving grace and more and more grace, they either get teared up and bent out of shape and outraged, or they move on and CD. I would say that the later is the healthier and most dignified of the two.


  37.  #37Queenbee on April 7, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Evan –

    One last thing I would like to point out is this. For some women, wanting to be married is also about having a family. When I hear that I need to wait 2 years + to know if a man will marry ME that terrifies me given past experience and knowing how many rounds of ‘boyfriend’ one may need before ‘the one’.

    I feel terrified because a woman’s biological clock is real. I’m in my early 30s now. There are already stats that after 35 it is getting too late. Should I now date the same man for 2 years only to be chucked and just keep getting older until the doctor says ‘oops, it’s over now, you waited too long’.

    Of course, this is not the end all. Women do give birth late in life, so I’m not stating this as an absolute. However, the medical profession has their opinion, which feels/ and is relevant to many women.

    Best wishes,


  38.  #38AMAZINGME on April 7, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Wow…well said QueenBee I couldn’t have said that better….Life is too short to waste 5 years on a man that decides your just not going to cut it…lol.,..god luck with that!! Thank You I was trying to reply a lot of truth Evan to what you said but some to be argued I guess that is why we women and men find attraction and intrigued by one another because of this right here 🙂

  39.  #39Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Boomer I am sure Loneplum meant it with good intentions. Her style has never been to demean anyone, at least I have not seen that since I have been here. That was how she saw it and though it might feel a bit harsh to you please remember that when we are close to situations we don’t see it clearly. We are all in the same boat and it is the reason why we are here. We help each other with our experiences and with our different perspectives on them. I have some of these experiences and made the same mistakes so please don’t feel like you are special in that department. I love the way you express yourself and your sense of humor it would be a great loss if you stop writing. I appreciate what Loneplum said because it was so helpful to me in my own situation. I am not judging you and I would hope no one else because absolutely none of us is perfect. I also remember that Rori has told some stories about her own experience that was not exactly smart or pretty but she is now using them, making herself vulnerable and helping the rest of us. I know it is hard when the microscope is turned on us individually but you know Boomer you will only mature and become a better person from the experience. Please don’t take it personal but just as a lesson to better your next experience. I believe Loneplum will explain her intention but I saw it as only meaning to help.

  40.  #40life_is_too_short_to... on April 7, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Well, I am not so sure anymore how great of an invention all these online dating sites are, I am sorry to say, Jonathan. I know that many have, in fact, met their matches on them, and I have also met some nice people, for sure. But in general, from my own experience, I would have to say they are more like combination used car lot and candy store and land of the misfits (of which I am one, so don;t get excited). I think on-line dating even contributes to isolating and polarizing people and doesn’t foster real intimacy. It also makes it way too easy for people to just do whatever the heck they want, and have the ‘hey, just go with flow’ mentality as an excuse to ditch and disrespect true and good values and standards. Beats me how that is helpful to the commitment cause!

  41.  #41Queenbee on April 7, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    @ 31 SLV – thank you for your post on the other thread and no problem.

    It is not true that people do not care for your feelings. Why do you accept this?

    It is interesting to see how our anger grows. Rori talks about this. I used to stuff like crazy and more so coz I was afraid of how huge my anger could get. Now I can just let it grow and observe, I then feel healed and back to calmness – just me.

    BTW – thank you for your comments re. when a man enquires about your work on a first date/ meeting. I receive them well and have not had a chance to get back to the convo, but will pick up.

    Thanks Jacqueline, Lillybelle – love reading from you!


  42.  #42Evan Marc Katz on April 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Hey Queenbee,

    Would you agree that a man who truly understands women will be a better partner than a man who is completely tone-deaf to a woman’s needs?

    I sure hope so.

    And would you agree that a man who doesn’t understand your needs runs the risk of losing out on “the yummy pie”?

    I sure hope so.

    So when I’m telling you how to understand men – and you keep coming back with points 1) and 2) in #34… it’s clear to me that you don’t WANT to understand men.

    Because I’m TELLING you how men think – and yet you still say things like:

    YOU don’t want to “play it cool”.

    YOU think he should KNOW that he wants to marry you.

    YOU think you should be allowed to CD even when he’s a been a good committed boyfriend for over a year.

    YOU want to be BETTER than any woman he’s ever dreamed of…

    Sorry, sweetie, you’re living in a fantasy world. And I’d be an irresponsible dating coach if I let you live there much longer.

    You may think you’re justified in theory; I won’t even argue with that.

    But in PRACTICE, everything you wrote is INEFFECTIVE in dealing with ACTUAL men.

    How do I know this?

    Because, unlike everyone here – I’m a man. A man who cares about you. A man who is breaking the male code and telling you how to avoid bad men and find the good ones.

    The good ones often do not KNOW that they want to marry you for a LONG time.

    So you have two choices:

    Play it cool and be effective in making a man feel that he can’t live without you.


    Tell him that you’re getting antsy and can’t handle being in limbo and try to talk about where things are headed and then tell him you’re dating other guys because it’s the only way you can protect yourself from getting hurt.

    I think it’s pretty obvious which woman most men would prefer to marry.

    With love (seriously!)

    Your friend,


  43.  #43Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:12 pm


    What do you think makes you ‘sexually intimidating’?

  44.  #44AMAZINGME on April 7, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    I would have to agree with Evan, it makes sense that is how men are…I am conflicted I am going to have to ponder my feelings on this one for I am contradicting myself I know this…hmmm…

  45.  #45Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:15 pm


    So nice to read about your progress with the pilot! I don’t know, perhaps to answer your questions you guys can go travel somewhere fun together? Even for a weekend. This plan may resolve everything.

  46.  #46Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    To EMK ,

    With respect, I do understand that men may prefer to take their time to be sure if they want us or not.

    This puts us women into a position of selectee , not selector. It doesnt work .When a relationship starts out the man is happiest chasing, the woman selects him or not. Once she votes “in” by saying” Im all yours Honey “, suddenly the dynamic shifts and he gets to select or reject , and this may take months or years for him to decide ! Months and years where she becomes the “Maybe not good enough” object of his indecision. THIS is what ruins relationships.

    If a man doesnt know what he wants then he doesnt want what he has.

  47.  #47Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    I am in a long distance relationship. We met a 2 years ago on April 5, 2009. ( The first time we dated from April until Jan 2010 then from Aug 2010 until now). We live over 2000 miles apart and his job keeps him on travel in and out of the country.

    We have been in each other physical presence probably less than ten times all during an layover because of his job.

    He has never specifically come and see me in all of the 2 years. I have received flowers from him now three times (twice at work and one time at home).

    We talk on the phone probably three or four times a week but not for a long period of time 20-30 minutes.

    He stated he loved me first and I questioned him because I said why? Why would you love me?

    I want to believe that he wants to be with me but I truly think otherwise. WE don’t have a plan to get or be closer. Supposely he is working on a transfer to be in my area but I am not holding my breath on that…

    When do I say enough? It is not hurting me but I am so lonely and this is SOMETHING. Even though it is NOTHING. I get nothing. I receive NOTHING. I believe his family doesn’t know me and my family barely knows him. I believe his friends, coworkers don’t know me and neither do mine. Mainly because I do not want to hear how stupid this is… I tell my ownself that!

    So what should I do?

  48.  #48AMAZINGME on April 7, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Ok my pondering is over I mean if you are exclusive as in you both understand you are in a relationship than just relax with it because noone wants to wait around or be sitting at home and he is out on dates..It has to be equal…you both agree and then let things ride out. Don’t freak out on him, don’t pressure give him space and time with the guys…show him we are a goddess and the right ones will stick around, I do believe…Sorry I am a hopeless romantic…unrealistic..hmmm…maybe maybe not 😛

  49.  #49Darling Ella on April 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm


    Big hugs to you…:( You are strong and you will sure take the best out of the advise given by LonePlum.

    I love her insights…The biggest changes I made about myself came from insights such as LonePlums…

    A feeback like that was about two years ago…from a male friend (we also dated briefly)…I asked for his feedback and he sure didn’t hesitate to give it to me…
    I was down for two weeks…we are still going strong as friends…maybe even more bonded because of the honesty…

    I rather have friends who can give me constructive criticism then those who would kiss my butt (excuse my french)…

    The key to constructive criticism, to me, is having a balance between positive report and negative report (feedback) from that person…if there are no positives, it’s hard to swallow the negatives…

    Again big warm hug,

  50.  #50Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Evan I also understand that actual men think this way . That they are outcome focused , that they compartmentalise readily and that they can do exactly as they want.

    I also understand that a certain type of man clearly responds to and respects getting to know me with built in “space” . They love it . They keep calling and taking me out. Because there is NO PRESSURE if CDing is done well. They understand there is no easy sex . They understand they dont get to feel angry if there are other guys around me. The reason men dont commit readily is the PRESSURE they feel when a gal says “im all yours” .

    perhaps this is because I am in older “pool” of divorced men . Lots of them want to remarry. They just want some space first.

  51.  #51Boomer on April 7, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    FW, I know. Logically, I know. I can’t explain it. I am too sensitive. Always have been. But my embarrassment runs deep right now. I’m just so glad I didn’t send it to him.

    Perhaps it was seeing “whore” and “prostitute” all over the place. Like I said, I felt…lectured. And like I’m a lost cause. I own that. She did not mean it that way. She comments on here so rarely, and twice now, she’s singled out my posts for a long reply, the upshot of which is how un-Sirenlike I have behaved. I just felt…uck.

    It’s all me. I’m know. I just feel ridiculous, like I’m never going to get this.

    LonePlum, I hope you don’t take offense. But I’m already on shaky ground with men–which is probably why I needed to hear what you had to say. But I feel really vulnerable right now.

  52.  #52AMAZINGME on April 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    NotSure..believe it or not I have been in your exact situation and still learning what to make of all of it…let me know if you find answers or I will watch for your advice it’s crazy how what you say can relate to someone you don’t even know …thanks for sharing 🙂

  53.  #53Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm


    I mostly agree with what you are saying, but what if a woman truly feels that she needs TO KNOW if her bfriend is ever going to marry her (and/or when). I think the power in this situation is not with her, because even you are saying; ‘she shouldn’t put any pressure’. What if it’s not ‘pressure’? and how do you know it’s ‘pressure’ lol? What if she reached the point when she really truly needs to know? Like the point that you reached once when you proposed to your wife:) Do you see that even here and now I’m almost ‘apologizing’ for the idea?

    I’m only learning to be a Siren and CD-ing other men when I’m involved with someone is not something that I ever did, So I really don’t know how to approach the situation above without being accused of ‘pressuring’ someone. Most probably I would just say how I feel (given I do it in a smart, gentle and positive way). Will that be ‘pressure’ in your eyes? And/or how would you address this? or you would keep on smiling, enjoying and waiting?

  54.  #54Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    i will go back and read through the posts but i just have to comment to Boomer first…

    Boomer…awww ((((hugs))) from me…i’m sorry you took it wrong/bad…i can see though after reading your post how it could make you feel bad…but i’m sure LonePlum would NEVER intentionally want to come across that way…i really like you here on the blog and think you bring a lot of sassiness and fun and lightness…i feel terrible that you feel terrible…and i hope you can feel comfortable posting again

  55.  #55Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    I have to admit that I have read/heard two other male coaches, Guy Blews and CCarter, say something very similar so there has to be something to this. I also have experiences that confirms this.

    “The good ones often do not KNOW that they want to marry you for a LONG time.

    So you have two choices:

    Play it cool and be effective in making a man feel that he can’t live without you.”

  56.  #56Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    One thing I’m looking for is a STRONG man and that means a man with a STRONG character. A man who is honest in word and deed, a man who doesn’t lie to call attention to himself and to make himself look good.

    I want a man who can step up and admit a mistake if he makes one. If a man can’t say those words then he’s a wimp no matter how well he thinks he communicates otherwise.


  57.  #57AMAZINGME on April 7, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Well said @56SLV I like it….

  58.  #58Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:34 pm


    About that guy who told me he got 400 emails on a dating site in 2 weeks – he wasn’t bragging. He was sharing and he thought it was crazy. I didn’t ask what he did with them.. assumed he was processing them. assumed he’d do the same thing as I do with my emails – select and try to start a communication (not that I get 400 in 2 weeks, please don’t get me wrong).

    I just think that it’s really hard to start a relationship for anyone if you get 400 emails like this. that’s why everyone in New York is single 😉

  59.  #59Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Reading these words “if a woman truly feels that she needs TO KNOW if her bfriend is ever going to marry her” feels like lowering one’s status and value in the other person’s eye to me. Somehow I would want the person to acknowledge for himself that he wants to be with me and voluntarily want to move things forward. I guess it is the reason I have always walked away from situations as soon as I felt that the guy was unsure about me. I have had guys come back to say they don’t know what happened to us though they knew I was the one they wanted. I have come to accept that my heart was hardened and I had shut down a part of myself so now I am practicing to try to stay open even when triggered.

  60.  #60Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    EMK EMK>>>jumps up with hand in the air!! Hiya!

    I wonder if you’ve experienced men who were simply “ready” for marriage in their life and looked around and found the best available choice and picked her?

    I’ve seen it happen, it’s my bestfriend’s theory about men and marriage, and I’d love your input on it – maybe it’s an older concept that’s been replaced?

    And a big thank you for your time, compassion and clarity!!

    Everyone may not agree with a “side,” but for sure you deserve kuddos for being in on the convo!


  61.  #61Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Hey Alonka!! 🙂

    yes…i’m sure this situation will resolve itself soon i mean seriously lol and the tools are helping me just lean back and be the siren that i am so that he can’t help himself!

    this might sound bad but i mean it to be good but i’ve kind of made it into a little game so i can keep it light and fun and not get too into my head about it…

    i am doing the water wheel, the air and definitely putting on all my sparkles ;)…and i had on super sexy red underwear last night and i FELT really sexy too…so he really has no chance 😉

  62.  #62Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Alonka I live in New York and many of my friends and colleagues here are married.

  63.  #63Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Alonka – I think guys get a lot more emails from fembots or something…a bunch of women send out feelers to get them to sites, it’s something they complain about a lot on CL and Backpage, etc.

    Hope all is well in your world!

  64.  #64Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    k going back through to catch up with all this EMK discussion

  65.  #65Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    FW – I think I owe you belated birthday wishes! How was your birthday and hope you enjoyed it all and your dad is fine….

  66.  #66Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    RE 61 Jilly it seems you are being the type of seductress that helps men to feel really masculine. I look at life as a game and as far as I am concerned anything that makes it enjoyable and rewarding is worth trying. I love your post and I am happy for you.

  67.  #67Lin on April 7, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    i am weak. I am not strong enough to walk away even i have been treated so badly. “r you there? ” did not see him online , could not help myself sending him a message. no reply from him.
    Shame on me! i got myself humiliated again!

  68.  #68Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    RE 65 Not sure why you think you “owe” that but thanks and my father is doing a lot better. He is getting ready to start therapy for rehab soon. Thanks again.

  69.  #69Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    agreed! Jilly is not only ALL that, she is rock starring it!! go grrrl!!

  70.  #70Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    owe as in belated, missed it yesterday! hope you celebrated a bit!

  71.  #71Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Oh Lin you are not a victim, you have the power to make choices. You are only humiliated in your own mind, you have the option to change that.

  72.  #72Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm


    #62: YES, most of your friends married young, right? I’m talking about late 30’s plus bunch.

  73.  #73luzydel on April 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    I am feeling so insecure right now…

    I read some posts here of women complaining about men who are actually giving them a relationship…
    I can’t even get a guy date me beyond 3 months.

    Then I wonder if I have been too passive, too nice, or just too naive.

    I do not want to think there is something wrong with me. I want closeness and intimacy and I tend to end up hitting walls. 🙁

  74.  #74Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Boomer , hi.

    Feeling embarrassed here and now is a lot better than feeling rejected , used and “not good enough” a couple of weeks down the line!!

    LP has always been so insightful and logical. her words to you were ALL about me in the past . The flirting, innuendo thing , the hooking into their “play” , the statements I didnt want sex , and with one particular guy, the ongoing relapses into giving it to him when he pressured me , then exploding with anger at him”using” me. Yes I felt I should have been paid . i would have felt some power if I had been!!!

    Its a universal situation and I am glad LP spelled it out so clearly. i do not think any the less of you for sharing your story .Its great to see your self esteem responding !

  75.  #75Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Bill Clinton wasn’t quick to admit his mistake, as a matter of fact he initially lied about it. People can be strong in one area and weak in others. Ideal and reality does not always match. People sometimes lie because of perceived fears.

  76.  #76Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm


    #59: What you are saying is that you broke up with guys based on a suspicion that they were unsure about you. I’m not judging, please don’t think I am, I am asking EMK if he thinks there is a way to discuss it as people who love each other. I.e. use a different approach.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Yes Boomer I am impressed by your self-esteem and your vibe. I really feel it most of the time, you express yourself so eloquently and clearly.

  78.  #78Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    WOW you guys move fast.. I am going back to catch up on everyone else’s thread so I can give back too.

    AMAZINGME@ 52 thanks for your comment. Why made you get through it? How did you get through it?

    I feel stupid sharing with my friends so I don’t. Now I am sharing on a website with hopefully women that can support this crazy place that I am in.

  79.  #79Lisi on April 7, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    I read what Evan wrote on the former blog, and, I have to say, respectfully, I think it’s shite.

    Quite simply, he fails to take into account the experience we women have been having with men.

    So, while he points out that a man might need time to decide you’re the one — he fails to acknowledge that the guy who has no intention of you ever being the one will pretty much act the same way.

    Have you got a way for us to figure out which is which, Evan?

    Because the guy who’ll happily waste 2 – 5 years of my time without ever committing, or even having any intention of committing will talk pretty much the same way you did in your blog post.

    How am I supposed to know which is which?

    And, to be frank, I’ve had a number of situations where a guy wanted a relationship set up that was blatantly unfair to me, knew this was the case, and wanted it anyway.

    Unfortunately for your advice, Evan, this is the way men act. In the real world. Maybe not Every. Single. One. but enough that I’m not going to take anyone at face value without seeing action to back it up.

    Thanks, but no thanks.


  80.  #80Jeannette on April 7, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Girls, my daughter and I had a discussion today about my fiance. She feels he should be visiting me more than just on the weekends, Sat. and Sun.’s. He lives 20 miles down the road. We talk on the phone every week night for an hour or so. Any thoughts?

  81.  #81Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:55 pm


    ‘Then I wonder if I have been too passive, too nice, or just too naive.’

    I know, I ask myself these questions too. But the truth is it’s not about you 😉 The only cure as I see it is to keep on dating, stay sane, share your truth, be gentle with yourself. Believe me, we are all in the same boat 😉

  82.  #82Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    RE 76 Alonka you are correct.

  83.  #83Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 6:58 pm


    I missed you here 😉 Not that I visit here as often as I used to. Crazy busy and crazy tired.

  84.  #84Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    RE 80 Jeannette I believe you should create your own frame for the relationship. People can cause us to question things unnecessarily. We need to be clear what we want for ourselves and what works for us.

  85.  #85SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Hi Boomer,

    In reading LPs post to you, i felt how it could also be taken how you took it. I wondered if you might take it from the self love standpoint.

    I totally identify with the shaky ground. May I gently suggest that you reread it but before you do, ask yourself how you would read it if you totally loved and cherished yourself? You are a sexual being and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Owning when you are ready for sex is what it’s all about.

    YOU are priceless, valuable and the prize. Of course men will try for sex right away. You are sexy, it’s part of the deal.

    I cannot speak for LonePlum, but I honestly believe that she was encouraging you to be clear on what you want and that is where authenticity is to be found. When we love ourselves enough to know what it is we want with clarity, then we are comfortable being authentic with the men in our lives.

    I am still learning this as well and I just want to give you a big hug. I heard my negative voices trying to grab hold of that post as an excuse to judge myself in the relationship I am in right now, but another part of me overrode the negative voices and spoke to me in a gentle whisper and said, “what if you read it again this time believing (or even pretending to believe) you are both worthy of love and loving yourself?” I guarantee you if you entertain those thoughts, the negative voices will quiet. And you’ll see that you are, in fact, taking loving steps toward ensuring your own happiness.

    Please give yourself permission to stop judging yourself. Self judgment is a default many of us slide into. IMO it’s a worse habit than crack cocaine to break. Please send yourself some loving thoughts and accept some of mine for you.



  86.  #86Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    I’m really liking EMK’s site posts and this which wouldn’t allow cut and paste is the most relevant to the discussion at hand I think – and I hope everyone visits Even at “home,” he’s got some really good insights!

  87.  #87Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    RE 73 Luzydel wiht all due respect I don’t think anything is wrong with you. I assume that like me you did not get schooled in how to do relationships so basically you were given a license to do something you were never trained to do. If it was a driver’s license you would maybe crash and burn. As far as I am concerned we are all here to learn because we never really did in the past. Now we are learning what to look for in a man, how to qualify him and the ones to cut loose. As we share our experiences we grow.

  88.  #88Tina on April 7, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Thank you Jaquilene and Jill. No I am not from the PJ party. Sounds fun though.

    Yes, I need to start loving myself. I am good looking, people think that I look like a model but I feel pretty simple.

    I will give him space and start accepting dates. During the 10 month with him I refused any as I loved just being with HIM.

    Much love to all of you beautiful women

  89.  #89Lilybelle on April 7, 2011 at 7:06 pm


    I have to tell you, I kinda feel like you’re my new best friend these days. I appreciate your straight shooting, tell it like it is style and I have learned a lot from you.

    I have just recently started CDing and it is for me, a healing process, a way for me to finally get to the bottom of my repeated history and push myself through my repeated patterns, to forge a newer, healthier me. WHEN the discussion of exclusivity comes up, I will either agree and stop CDing other men or disagree and continue to CD. I have jumped too soon in the past, and actually have some of the worst dating history you have ever seen…ALL of it because of myself. Ish. You would have had your work cut out for you. Probably still would. 😉

    I am finding out and setting bondaries for myself, getting more clear about what is acceptable to me and tuning in to what I want.

    Ultimately, I desire a committed, long term relationship but that isn’t what I am doing right now. I’m healing and learning and CDing is just one of the tools to that end.

    I value your presence here on this blog and appreciate your own as well.


  90.  #90anna on April 7, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    This is a stupid question but it is driving me obessively crazy and I need someone to tell me I crazy. My bf of 6 yrs (broken up for 1 yr but talking again for 8 months) is invited to a wedding this weekend. He was invited with a guest but never asked me. I will be away that weekend but he didn’t know that when he sent it back. I know it’s stupid but I feel sad he didn’t ask me to go. I haven’t said anything to hisbecuz I know it souds so needy. Do you think it’s a bad sign he didn’t askme?

  91.  #91Mercedes on April 7, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Evan: ” And, frankly, I communicate better than any woman I’ve ever dated. ” oops…you might be dating the wrong women and…just a question…does your current girlfriend know this? LOL

    Just kidding. Really..just kidding…

    You mentioned how we should listen to you because you are a man and you are speaking to us as a man…telling us what men want and how they think.

    I can honestly, and I mean honestly (because I respect so much of what you have to say) say I agree with this.

    I’m asking you to PLEASE do not discount what we’re saying to you because…well…you happen to have a ROOM full of women here telling you how we think and what we want. You seem to discount that by telling one woman she is living in a dream world.

    I can tell you for certain that I am absoultely cherished by my bf. He loves everything about me from my independence to my spunk to my passion to my tears to my fears. I don’t think that’s so rare…I think anyone can have it. And I can tell you without a doubt that much of that happened after I stared circular dating and he knew that whatever it was he needed to work on, it wasn’t going to hold me back from what I wanted out of life and relationships.

    Again…please don’t misunderstand me…I agree with a lot of what you say…but I also know that when a man (even if he’s Mr. Right) is taking is time, hanging back without giving you a future and “making up his mind, sometimes, you need to move on in order for him to realize things aren’t always going to be so easy for him.

    I don’t mean we need to make things difficult on guys. All I’m saying is that we, as strong, independent, beautiful women…who YES…are the prize…sometimes need to go after the relationship WE want rather than “play it cool” while a guy takes as many years as HE wants deciding.

    A kick in the ass never hurt anyone and I believe any man who is right for us woud NEVER risk lose us to another man while he spends years making up his mind. If he’s right, he’ll take up our time.

    That is all from two things…first of all, being a woman and telling you how women think and what we want and second…experience.

    I hope that helps open your mind to where we’re coming from. If it doesn’t, please refer your girlfriend to my blog when she’s tired of waiting for you.

    LOL…just kidding again…

    Much Love,

  92.  #92Lilybelle on April 7, 2011 at 7:08 pm


    You are a rock star, sister. I loved the story of your first date. Hope you are having fun tonight.


  93.  #93Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    HI Anna,
    have you been to other events with your bf?

  94.  #94Lilybelle on April 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    FW~ Happy Belated Birthday!! So sorry I missed it.
    Many blessings for a wonderful year!


    PS, how’s your father doing?

  95.  #95Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    I have a nice development with a potential CD that suggested to meet for coffee tomorrow while we are both at work. He said ‘they say that it only takes 5 mins to see if there’s chemistry or not, so we should have enough time!’

    I replied today – Haha it takes a GUY 5 mins! I will have about 10-15, let’s see how I feel after that time ;P

    He first emailed: You are funny!

    And then 2 hours later: I think that chemistry is WAY overrated! It usually takes me two dates.

    I liked that 😉 I didn’t reply. Anyone thinks that it’s a good idea to reply and say that?

  96.  #96Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    I am not sure if you have caught up on reading what I posted earlier but I would love to get your feedback..

  97.  #97anna on April 7, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    hi not sure. Since we broke up we really haven’t had any events to go to, but we did spend xmas and valentine’s day together. Also he is going to my mother’s birtday party with me.

  98.  #98Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Anna-It sounds like you have some expectation. What is it? It has been 6 years… What is his expectation in a relationship and what is yours?
    6 years is a long time and I am sure you have a goal what is yours and what is his?

  99.  #99Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Summerbaby I appreciate the gentleness in your comments to Boomer. I also saw another side to the experience. I believe now that it is quite okay to experiment with different sides of oneself depending on the person and situation presenting itself in front of us so we can really know ourselves, what we are comfortable with and what we want.

    I have had a boss outrightly flirt with me in the office. He did some the things CCarter suggests to build attraction to the point he had me wondering what he was doing because he is married. I made it obvious that I was not game or up to the play. As he continued I started to play along with his game. Somewhere along he started telling me that he did not want sex from anyone in the office. I asked myself so why in the world would you blatantly flirt and carry on that way. I also saw him doing it to others. I eventually came to the conclusion that that was a way that he tests people to see what he could get away with and to decide who he would open up to fully. In light of Boomer’s comments, Loneplum’s assessment and how she seems to feel about it now, I am wondering if this is a way to test men and what they are really about. I am now seeing it as a possible way to weed out PUAs and players. It might be a way to trigger narsicists to show their anger from early on when they don’t get what they expect. I am beginning to believe that any way we choose to be is good, depending on our aim and end game as long as we are conscious of it. Boomer I really believe your level of awareness is great.

  100.  #100Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    awww thanks J i love it when you say you love MEN! cause i love men too…all types of men…yum! 🙂

    and FW…thanks for seeing me 🙂 even though we are siren friends and have never met i feel like you really see me…that feels good

  101.  #101Evan Marc Katz on April 7, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Put it this way:

    If I didn’t propose to my wife after 18 months because I foolishly decided that I wanted a woman who was younger so we’d have more time to have children…

    Was I a player?

    Was a a liar?

    Was I disingenous?

    Was I trying to hurt her or callously wasting her time?

    No. No. No. No.

    I might have been making a mistake, but I was genuinely searching for a wife and decided after considerable deliberation that she was not the one for me.

    Good man. Good woman. No marriage.

    That’s dating. That’s life. No guarantees.

    As it turns out, I DID propose to my wife. Why? Because she was the sanest, easiest, coolest, most nurturing woman on the planet. Because she respected that I was agonizing about my decision and never pushed me to decide before I was sure. Because she saw me as the best version of myself instead of seeing me as a male predator, sent from hell to waste her precious childbearing years.

    You can’t JUST KNOW the future with a guy, Sirens. It’s impossible. ALL you can do is treat your man as a man with integrity and let him choose you on his timetable. If he’s NEVER mentioned marriage, dump him. If he gets cold sweats when talking about kids, dump him. If he has never escalated his efforts to integrate you into his life, dump him. If he’s been with you for over three years and has shown no signs of proposing, dump him.

    But if he’s a good man who wants to do the right thing – but isn’t quite sure what that is – he’s human. And all of your proclamations about how you’ve been hurt notwithstanding, the BEST way to have him choose you is to do what my wife did.

    The WORST way is to start dating other people.

    Do you REALLY want to understand why men act the way they do?

    Click here; I’ll tell you. You deserve to know the truth about men.

    Good night. Time for dinner with the patient wife and beautiful baby. I’m very lucky she didn’t dump me after six months because I wasn’t sure I wanted to spend the next forty years with her.

  102.  #102Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 7:20 pm


    I sense that you are questioning his choice, but not sharing how you feel about it? You actually think that you are needy because you expect to be treated as a serious girlfriend? Because you don’t understand why you are not invited? Just for having this question?

    I feel triggered by this situation because it reminds me of my own. I was ‘too nice’ to ask questions (and by that I don’t mean to make a scene). As a result the guy respected me less and I ended up being even unhappier. I decided for the future that if it ever happens ever again, I’m sharing my feelings (and I know that in 80 cases out of 100 it’s not a friendly ‘omission’, so no need to give a benefit of a doubt). That’s what I decided for myself.

  103.  #103Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    My responses to Evans comments are in ( brackets)

    “The good ones often do not KNOW that they want to marry you for a LONG time.

    So you have two choices:

    Play it cool and be effective in making a man feel that he can’t live without you.”

    (This sounds like faking it and stuffing down my feelings, adopting a position of weakness and losing my sense of self while I await his judgment of my worthiness …and for a LONG TIME .)


    Tell him that you’re getting antsy and can’t handle being in limbo and try to talk about where things are headed and then tell him you’re dating other guys because it’s the only way you can protect yourself from getting hurt.

    (This is a real choice and empowers me to find a man who matches better what I want. In reality only some women are commencing CDing whilst already in a Girlfriend position. if they have taken this action its because they feel very BAD in a relationship going nowhere.

    Those starting CDating from the outset are in a different position entirely. They get to decide what degree of commitment they want BEFORE they stop seeing others and narrow down their options.
    This means they dont waste the time of men who want casual sex or friends with benefits or a long term GF to trot out at family christenings and office parties if they themselves want marriage…NEXT !)

    Actually I am not focused on getting a man to do what i want or to marry me , I am focused on enjoying life and being happy.

    i therefore do not try and fit myself to a mans timeline . I am not interested in whether or not he “cant live without me”. Thats his problem!!! I am no longer trying to be the woman a man may want, and I am now knee deep in them:) I believe they like my style !

    I am no longer reading stuff that tells me how to be attractive to men and all the moves and essentials..
    Actually its all as Rori says , Focus on YOURSELF and your happiness and men knock each other down to get to you!

  104.  #104Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    RE 95 No Alonka, let the mystery build. A funny quip upon first meeting in reference to that could trigger the attraction furhter, in my opinion. Responding now could or before could dial down the attraction. I am now sure that he must be waiting with bated breath to see what the attraction is going to be. I hope you will be light hearted and easy breezy.

  105.  #105anna on April 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    not sure, you are exactly right…i guess I do have expectations. I want us t be back together where we share our life together and go to things like a wedding together. He says he wants the same things, but he needs a little more time. He says he doesn’t want to be apart anymore, but he isn’t quite ready to make it official. I guess my expectation is that we are working through things but that soner rather than later we will be together. We spend alot of time together, he says he loves me, he cals all the time. I feel like we are moving in that direction and then sometimes as small as him wanting to go to a wedding alone makes me doubt everything…

  106.  #106Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm


    Thank you 😉 I will try to be easy breezy yes! I can do it for 10 mins right lol

  107.  #107Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Alonka!! fun! i bet you totally put a smile on his face…like…oh this one’s spicy..she has some personality! 😉

  108.  #108Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    RE 103 Celtic Blue I have to say “making a man feel that he can’t live without you” really resonates with me. Can you imagine him feeling that way before there is agreed commitment? I have experienced it and believe me it feels great to hear a guy saying “please please come to blahblahblahblah” or “I HAVE to see you before I travel to…………”
    It makes me laugh to myself and feel of a surety Mr. Right is really close by. As such I am game to experiment.

  109.  #109Violet on April 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    I just ‘love’ all the back and forth that’s going on with EMK and Rori and Sirens. It’s like watching a game of ping pong.

    I’m not going to base my decisions on what any one person states. I don’t care how many letters they have after their last name, how successful their life is, how successful they think my life will be. (if I buy ‘their’ book, newsletter, video, etc…)

    No one person has ALL the answers for my life.

    There are different perspectives from each person, regardless of gender. Each person has good points and bad points in each others’ eyes.

    People will understand what they want to understand, change what they choose to change, to acheive a successful end result.

    It’s like having two people looking into a blue/gray sky. One will see it as blue, one will see it as gray. It takes wisdom to look at the sky and see it from the other person’s perspective.

    It takes maturity to see common ground. The sky is blue, the sky is gray, the sky is blue/gray, AND the sky is gray/blue.

    Think of what this world has accomplished for choosing to see the differences instead of the commonalities. Think of what this world could accomplish for choosing what is best for all, instead of what is best for one.

    ~ Violet ~

  110.  #110Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Not Sure…um…i did a long distance for about 6 months..but we didn’t start out that way but i told him i would only do it if i could see a light at the end of the tunnel…and after about 4 months of no light…even though he would come see me when he could i ended it…because it’s imaginary with no future…

    2 yrs…with no talk of future? this does not sound good…you are not committed are you? can you start CDing?

  111.  #111Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    In the specific situation where a woman begins CDing in an established relationship going nowhere ,I would like to say that she would only do that if DESPERATELY UNHAPPY WITH HER SITUATION. She would not do this lightly on a whim. This becomes her bottom line boundary.If her guy loved her, he would know that. He then gets to decide what he wants to do .

    If shes not unhappy , waiting is not a problem.
    I think the womans feelings are important here.

  112.  #112Mercedes on April 7, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Evan: Please tell your wife we said “hi” and that we hope she learns to communicate better. It’s hard being with a man who communicates better than “any woman” he’s ever dated.

    sheesh! I respected you until that last comment. That was crazy weird. Do you tell her you write this stuff? You talk about how wonderful she is but she’s your WIFE and you talk about how she can’t communicate the way you can??? I thought you were just dating. You absolutely did NOT sound like a married man who cherishes your wife. You sound more like she’s lucky to be with you because you communicate so well. I’m sure you do, but with women, you seem to be missing the mark here a little.

    WOW! I’m totally surprised you are a married man. Totally. You really, really changed my view of you and of your advice here. It’s unfortunate because I’m sure you have a lot of good things left to say, but you give such a closed minded vibe (even after Rori, who hosted you here, did a lot of agreeing with you) that you’ve completely turned me off to what you might have to say.

    My advice: Listen when a bunch of women tell you that what we’re looking for from a man is to be cherished. Then ask your wife if she feels cherished knowing you don’t think she can communicate near as well as you do.

    Just a little too full of yourself for me.


  113.  #113Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    RE 94 thanks lillybelle I am still celebrating, you are not late.

    My father is slowly getting out the bed and is back to his regular personality. A big difference.

  114.  #114Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    I love the picture on this thread. The man in the blue shirt looks like Ryan. He has long hair and often wears it in a ponytail, and he often wears a blue denim shirt.

  115.  #115Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    I am in a long distance relationship. We met a 2 years ago on April 5, 2009. ( The first time we dated from April until Jan 2010 then from Aug 2010 until now). We live over 2000 miles apart and his job keeps him on travel in and out of the country.

    REcently his grandfather just died and in my heart I expected for him to ask me to come with him. I never asked. I never hinted. But if he would have asked i would have taken off of work.

    However, I had work and other obligations and that would have been too easy. WE have NEVER had time together outside of his work flights that allow him to have a layover in my city.

    I learned to place him on a shelf and take him off and on when needed. Sort of compartmentailization. Wierd. Btu what else can I do.

    I would LOVE I mean LOVE LOVE to be married with children now. and I MEAN NOW!

    He says he LOVES me but I learned a long time ago LOVE is more than words it is actions.

    For me …his actions do not say I LOVE YOU!

    So I really just take it day by day and see if the next day will bring something different than the day before…

    But trust me it is very taxing emotionally.

  116.  #116Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 7:36 pm


    Thank you 😉 I’m not really spicy.. I’m polite, mannered and behave like an obedient female ready to be courted. Was it Bernard Shaw who said that if you sit straight on a chair and say ‘prisms, pilligrims’ 100 times you can consider yourself to be a real lady? Or Oscar Wilde.. anyway, nothing can make me lose my posture, I’m telling you.

  117.  #117SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Celtic Blue, I loved what you said, “If a man doesn’t know what he wants, a man doesn’t want what he has.”

    Sirens, in the distant past, a man I was dating was hot and cold and I felt like I was falling hard and would get my heart broken. My solution was to move. I figured I’d rather live with the hurt now and heal easier than get entrenched and have my heart ripped and shredded. He chased me and married me.

    So another option to cd-ing when he needs time to decide what he wants is to walk away. He figured out pretty quickly that I wasn’t going to hang around while he made up his mind.

    I personally think the chase is a challenge.

    The guy I am seeing now I am not cd-ing in the full dating sense. But I am open to talking to others and am learning it’s about the attitude of having options and knowing that the more I care about myself, the more he likes me. The siren attitude seems to be the glue that is working.

    the more I work on my self esteem, the better attention he pays me. The better attention he pays me, the easier my self esteem rises, and it keeps getting better. I don’t NEED him for my self esteem, but it has enhanced what I initially give to myself in that department.


  118.  #118Daria on April 7, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Boomer – just to let you know, i have sexual conversations with men ALL THE TIME and then change my mind, or let them know i don’t want sex


    it’s all about ME!

  119.  #119Femininewoman on April 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    RE 109 Wow Violet really profound.

  120.  #120Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    FW , No I cant imagine a man desperate to have me in his life but not committed to me . Men dont work that way. When they are ready for marriage they marry. When they arent , they dont.

    When they commit they depend on you for their happiness, when they dont commit , they have other fish to fry.

  121.  #121Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:40 pm


    RE: #101 – Some men don’t see the light until they feel the heat.

  122.  #122Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:41 pm


    RE: #118 – I used to do that, until Kenny cautioned me that if I keep doing that, one of these times I’ll tease the wrong man, and he’ll get revenge when I turn him down. What do you think?

  123.  #123Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Jilly- My mind is very open to CDing. I just know I want the Long distance relationship because we have never had a chance to have a normal relationship where we are in the same space at the same time. But you know that may never happen. This is the very reason he is not a topic of any of my conversations with family, friends or coworkers. He sent me flowers for our 2 year anniversary (I knew I was going to get them because he had to verify my work address two days prior to me getting them) of meeting each other. My coworkers asked what the occassion was I just said my boyfriend sent them to me… What else could I say? WE were not celebrating because we really don’t. I think they were sent just out of obligation not out of I want to move our relationship to another level..

    I don’t know it could just be me.

  124.  #124Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:43 pm


    RE: #109 – Like!

  125.  #125Daria on April 7, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Dear ladies – just cuz a man says “I’m a man, I know”, doesn’t mean he knows what he’s talking about.

    men THINK they want one thing, and actually want another

    all the time.

    (yes really, maybe most of the time)

    a wise woman can give a man what he really wants, not what he thinks he wants.

    is that demeaning to men?

    no it’s not – just true about humans

    women do this too… we are attracted to certain behaviors. if a man turns us on…

    well usually that’s all we need to “fall in love”

  126.  #126SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Alonka @95 you said And then 2 hours later: I think that chemistry is WAY overrated! It usually takes me two dates.

    I liked that I didn’t reply. Anyone thinks that it’s a good idea to reply and say that?

    That’s fun. I might reply something like, “oh, what did you have in mind for our second date?” followed by a winky face. Just to be playful.

    Oh wait, since this is Rori’s blog my statement should probably be preceded by, That feels nice. 😉


  127.  #127anna on April 7, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    not sure, thank you so much for tslking this out with me. You are so right it is beyond emotionally taxing some days. However actions to say so much…my bf actions says he loves me but I guess I still have those expectations of words backing up those actions…i am so weird. I need to just focus on his actions and take it day by day

  128.  #128Daria on April 7, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Brenda – i’m not teasing anyone, just being myself

    i feel triggered when “tease” comes up. wtf is that… i don’t live in that world.

    i just do what i feel in the moment. if i feel sexual then i am and express it. if i don’t i don’t. if it’s too far for me… it’s too far.

    his comment feels frightening.

    is revenge like “rape”?

    that sounds liek bullshit to me. I’m not worried about getting raped because of “teasing” men.

  129.  #129Evan Marc Katz on April 7, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    My wife is a perfect fit for me because she values the truth and doesn’t expect me to pretend that she is the youngest, fittest, smartest, funniest, most athletic, creative person on earth. Jesus Christ, who can put up with so many lies? And I don’t pretend that I’m the best looking guy she’s ever dated either. How is it an insult if it’s true?

    My wife is (clearly) the most patient person in the world. She’s got the highest emotional IQ. She understands men better than any woman I’ve ever met. She puts my needs before hers. She’s got an amazing smile and a curvy body. She gets every joke and tirelessly breastfeeds our six week old daughter like a champ.
    She’s easily my favorite person on the planet and I’d be completely lost without her.

    But yeah, I don’t cherish her because I gave myself a compliment.

    This is the reward you get for actively participating – every word is dissected and nitpicked and criticized. And it’s not just me. Lots of women here.

    This is the drama we men tire of. These are the eggshells we don’t want to walk on. Taking every little word and twisting it to mean something harmful even when it’s benign, like my comment above.

    Anyone who reads my blog, my newsletter or my eBooks knows how much I care about women. And to be told that I don’t because I think I’m better at one thing than my own wife…

    It’s wrong. And it’s frustrating.

    I wish all of you – even my detractors – the best and pray that you are more patient with your boyfriends than you are with your male dating coach.

    And I will slink back to my own blog, where my thoughts tend to be much-better received…

    Warmest wishes and much love,


  130.  #130Daria on April 7, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    when men take a long time to know if they want to marry a woman.. .that doesn’t make them “good ones”

    that makes them “players”

    i like players – but i treat them all the same, even the bad ones 😉

    they come back

  131.  #131Tina on April 7, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    @Anna I would feel dissapointed if he did not invite you to come along to the wedding. My boyfriend I mean now my ex of a few days did that to me and I got very upset as it showed that we were not one unit.I felt that he wanted to keep his option open. i talked to him about it and he explained his feelings that after dating back then for 4 month he felt it was too early to introduce to the fmaily and the whole wide world. In any rate I feel after a long time it is appropriate.

  132.  #132Daria on April 7, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Alonka – I would send a smily face… because i felt smily reading it

  133.  #133Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:53 pm


    RE: #17 – You said, “And for those of you who made the false claim that this gives men all the power: Bullshit.”

    I started to date Ryan in Dec. 2008, and I started to listen to Rori’s CD programs in Apr. 2009, when things started to feel murky. At first, I flat out disagreed with circular dating.

    As the months went by, the more Ryan sensed my love and devotion for him, and the higher the stakes became, the more he treated me badly. More and more, I felt like a mouse between the paws of a cat who had caught his first mouse and didn’t know what to do with it.

    I was totally emotionally invested in him, and he had become a daily part of my life. As long as I focused on him, he toyed with me, seeing how much bad treatment I would take.

    After ten months of dating, I finally saw the way out for me was Circular Dating. I gave him the respect of telling him I was no longer exclusive. It totally shifted the vibe of our relationship, and he moved in my direction.

  134.  #134Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Hi Brenda!

    We must be REALLY hot then 🙂

    It occurs to me I have had 4 marriage proposals in my life , from good men , two engagements , one marriage .
    I am a commit-able woman.

    And there are great guys out there who like a woman to be her own woman and show him the light by her actions.

  135.  #135Tina on April 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Evan has a point somehow…however how much time can you give a good guy. Mine took the initiative of the pause/break as he is not sure if he wants to get married. He feel suddenly the pressure from both families and me. Although we hardly talked about it he knew if from the beginning where I had told him that I am interested in getting re-married. Not a girl just to date. I gave him once the No girlfriend speech from Rori.

    So whats the plan for him now? Just to move on and to forget about me? Wow

  136.  #136Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Anna… you are welcome.. this is helping me too. i just got off the phone with my bf 2 min conversations to say he is going to bed.
    could i say he doesn’t love me- YES.
    but then why would he call me. He doesn’t have too. He doesn’t have to call or return my phone calls. I don’t blow up his phone and neither does he with mine.
    We have a very respectful relationship. That is why I want him as my bf but it is emotionally taxing because everytime I talk to him I want to say I want more but I can’t. That “I want more relationship talk” will ruin the relationship.
    You have to figure out what works for you. I am still doing it with him. I have NO NO idea where it is going to go and what it will do. I am 50% in it and 50% out of it because I am scared of getting my feeling hurt and falling into a depression if we break up.
    So I deal with it.. when we did break up and I dated someone else and he dated someone else we came back to eachother. I despised the other guy I dated.
    I do believe for me that I need to journal or “vent” like I am doing here to remain sane .
    I need to take the black dress out and have men look at me and verify that I am still sexy because my bf can’t he is not here. who knows when we will be in the sam place at the same time.
    I have to figure out what works for me to get me to my goal.
    which I am still trying to create…
    What is going to work for you? Maybe it will help me.

  137.  #137SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Mercedes @112. your reply has me giggling. I picked out the same line. Sorry EMK but what you communicated there…. well, maybe it wasn’t exactly what you wanted to communicate?

    I may not be perfect, but many parts of me are excellent! 😉

    hugs all,

  138.  #138Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 7:57 pm


    Re: #128 – I generally like the idea of expressing my feelings in the moment. However, when I talk sexually, I see that as leading a man on to believe that is the direction I am heading or willing to head.

    What’s triggering to me, after all I experienced with Ryan, is being led on. I want to avoid leading on a man. What do you think?

  139.  #139Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Celtic Blue,

    RE: #133 – “We must be REALLY hot then”

    LOL! Some like it hot and some faint when the heat is on!

  140.  #140Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    The one time I fell off the horse was during a deep depression post divorce, and I became the classic Anti-Siren 🙂 I also became addicted to 5 year imaginary guy.

    Interestingly he couldnt bear to not have me in his life , pursued me relentlessly , but would not and could not commit. I feel so happy to have found my horse again and the guys love me like this , independent , a bit stroppy, warm and open and free.

    I actually like men who dont need me in their life , who CAN live without me really well, BUT who choose to commit to me because I make their life better . That feels really good. I have had these men in the past and I will have that again.

  141.  #141Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Yes men are sometimes quite delicate flowers in the hot house Brenda!

  142.  #142Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    SummerBaby, Daria,

    Thank you, I was dead tired after work, then writing a preliminary test for my real test in June – I just read his email and didn’t reply. I didn’t think about replying until I got home and went to Sirens island lol. Too late.

    He will have to impress me tomorrow 😉

  143.  #143SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Lilybelle, It’s good to see you.

    Lucy, we may have similar stories to write. I feel I get you.

    SLV, am loving your Sweetie tool.

    Jacqueline, thanks for the hello.


  144.  #144Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Im choosing me a big strong tropical variety,
    probably got a few spikes but hardy and the fruit is sweet ..

  145.  #145Queenbee on April 7, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Hi Evan,

    Thank you for this. It feels good to read from you and I receive your comments well. Thank you also for your love and friendship. It feels good and I am happy about it.

    I will just reply succinctly to some points-

    You say:
    “So when I’m telling you how to understand men – and you keep coming back with points 1) and 2) in #34… it’s clear to me that you don’t WANT to understand men”.

    Thank you. I really get that you care by the way you are ‘telling me’ and want me to get it. Point taken.

    My issue is yes, I don’t want to understand men. It now feels better to understand ME. My years of pain have been riddled with trying to ‘understand men’. It is a hopeless endeavour for me to try to understand men completely and as thoroughly as I could ever try to understand myself. I will NEVER understand men and that feels completely freeing, authentic and vulnerable to me. I can now express myself authentically as a woman and enjoy my womanhood.

    I’m yet to find historically or even in modern day times a hero/ heroine who could check off some box that states – I understand men/ women, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

    No, that is never going to happen and I’m okay with that. Understanding relationships may be a different issue, but still I won’t limit myself to thinking anyone could ever do that completely either.

    You say:
    “Because I’m TELLING you how men think – and yet you still say things like:

    YOU don’t want to “play it cool”.”.

    – Playing it cool for me feels superficial. I don’t want to be superficial – cook for him, drive his mother to the airport etc when I’m dying inside because it has been two years, he hasn’t proposed and now I look and feel like a complete IDIOT! – I would rather get to the core of me and express it.

    Playing it cool for me feels like faking an orgasm. It’s all pretense and I don’t want to pretend – as much as a man may not want a woman to fake an orgasm.

    You say:
    “YOU think he should KNOW that he wants to marry you.”

    – no I don’t think this. I get that he does not know. I may not know either. But after 4 or 5 months of consistent dating, I would have a sense of what I wanted. The rest of the time feels like looking for excuses/ reasons NOT to commit.

    Oh, I’ll just keep checking her out… until forever…

    You say:
    “YOU think you should be allowed to CD even when he’s a been a good committed boyfriend for over a year.”

    – I don’t know what you mean by “allowed”. Is this him or society? I get to decide and I don’t want a boyfriend, which allows me to CD until my wedding day – just a personal preference.

    How many women get the proposal and everything only to be jilted at the altar? I’m not being skeptical, I just know MYSELF and I KNOW my worth and value.

    I just got a proposal in Jan that died off in Feb and I would have married the man. Thank God I did not though. He saved my life by calling it off 🙂 🙂 – stuff like this would happen when I would IGNORE my worth and focus on HIM.

    The person who will actually MARRY me is probably going to be a phenomenal person. I’m not attached to CDing until my wedding day – just radically expressing my authenticity. – I’m not going to kid myself anymore by focusing on men, finding a boyfriend and needing to settle.

    You say:
    “YOU want to be BETTER than any woman he’s ever dreamed of…” – no, there’s an error. We were talking about men and women being equals.

    Recap. You said: “You can break up with a guy after one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, if you decide that he’s not Mr. Right. Same as he can do with you. We are are equals. Men do not have power over you that you do not grant them.”

    I said I don’t want to be an equal with a man, I want to be better than a man – the ultimate prize.

    Now this may seem radical and it is. I don’t mean it in any empirical, finite way but just as a context that I choose to live my life from where I can open up to a man when he comes to me.

    I don’t want to break up with a man (unless he is toxic but that is not the issue here). I want to open up, be vulnerable, a diva and receive from a loving man.

    With Rori’s tools and knowing my boundaries, I can safely say I feel confident that I may never have to experience that crappy, loser, icky feeling of weird heartbreak again. I can own my power as my boundaries. It now feels like hard work to me and very masculine to own my power as oh, I’ll break up with him if he does/ doesn’t do this or that.

    I am better – I am the ultimate prize, I am the yummy pie. This is good for HIM and as much as I could ever focus on HIM.

    You say:
    “Sorry, sweetie, you’re living in a fantasy world. And I’d be an irresponsible dating coach if I let you live there much longer.” – THIS I JUST LOVE!! VERY SASSY -THANKS!

    I believe at the end of the day there is an assumption that when a woman is CDing she needs to wear it on her sleeve and shout it from the rooftops. There is a subtlety to it (not sneakiness). It is the VIBE that shifts and not an issue of numbers of men or whatever. It’s not about getting a man to DO something.

    I’m dating a good guy. I know he does not KNOW now if he will marry me and neither do I yet. And I’m open to CDing. I don’t want to do anything I don’t want to do – whether it is online dating or accepting a date from a man, if I don’t want to. Like anything else good in my life, it takes time to build up and organise. CDing is like that for me – I start slowly with myself, friends, fam and ultimately men. I want to CD before I marry. Knowing why one wants to do something is the most important thing. I know that I want to build up my self-esteem, heal and grow. This I have noticed I can do very fast through CDing.

    The man who then marries me will be the luckiest guy on earth and he can have me all to himself.

    Thanks again Evan!


  146.  #146Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Celtic Blue,

    RE: #140 – LOL! Love it!

    When I connect with a man in emotional intimacy, I just don’t want it to end! It defies my reason why a man distances himself when there is a profound connection. For me, I want more and more and more.

    I feel frustrated when a man runs from the warmth of intimacy.

  147.  #147Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Alonka – “obedient” sounds like a turnoff . it sounds like “doormat”

    also, i hope you’re MELTING around that Rose stem posture!

  148.  #148Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    What if I can see a color that’s out of spectrum for everyone else? Do I also deny it exists? Or merely keep knowledge of it hidden?

  149.  #149Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    I think emotional connection needs to shared out around family , gal pals and your lover..that way he wont be overtaken by a strangling vine there in the hothouse 🙂

  150.  #150anna on April 7, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    not sure, I love that we can help each other. I think what is working for me right now is when I feel “dramatic” like this, I take myself out of the mix and ask myself if my friendwas telling me this what would I say to her. I am not even upset that he didn’t ask me to the wedding because if we aren’t back together officially I don’t want to do official things- we have to much history for that- I’m upset because after 8 months we are still taking things slow. I’m ready for the next step he is almost there but not quite and I don’t want to walk away but I don’t want to be in this limbo anymore, so I’m reaching out for something to help me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Does any of this make sense?

  151.  #151Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    “i’m sorry you took it wrong/bad”


  152.  #152Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:15 pm



    applause applause for DARIA!!

    i was feeling so rollercoastery getting a text and entering a text convo with Security man today

    i cried

    we’re both like. I miss you so much!

    but then he doesn’t come see me!!


    then he’s suggesting stuff that i feel judgemental about (like MY asking my parents to use their car, or for money for a hotel room)

    i don’t want to judge his thinking (as very immature lol) i just said no

    so then hes still like i miss you

    and i wound up saying…

    im feeling angry and i dont want to talk to you unless its about a plan to see me

    (this is what i said to another CD i havent met yet – BUT I AM IN LOVE WITH SECURITY MAN AND HAVENT SEEN HIM IN A YEAR!)

    so then he’s like why are you getting at me like this.

    i said i dont want to push you away, i still feel so strongly for you.. and i dont want to be treated badly. i dont want a phone buddy.

    YAY ME!!!

    i said NO to crumbs!!! from a man i feel VERY attached to

    that i was recently dreamign about

    wooo hoo daria woo hoo!!

    NOT taking crumbs


  153.  #153Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    @58: Alonka says:
    “…that’s why everyone in New York is single…”

    not everyone… there are lots of married people…


  154.  #154Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “…I have come to accept that my heart was hardened ..”

    It’s the best way to go and open it on holidays and family gatherings.


  155.  #155Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    When a woman is brave enough to begin CD in an established but stalled relationship she is saying she is prepared to LET HIM GO .

    Of course they dont like this. Of course they come back later , because she CAN live without him, and she chooses the lesser pain in accepting the risk that he will leave. And she chooses to live her life the way she wants.

    In support of Evan this does not give her the right to complain bitterly about the guy for years to any one who will listen.

  156.  #156Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Unfortunately, I completely understand. I am in limbo. 2 years…and to me we have not had that official just us date. My friends would say I am crazy because I would tell me that I am crazy for even hoping anything would occur.
    What does your gut say? REally what are you willing to endure? that is the question.
    I am willing to endure my crazy long distance relationship because if we break up it doesnt cost anything and if we are together it could only mean possibilities. I do believe I should CD now just so in case there is a chance for other men to have a substainable relationship that I should not shut any doors… I am not sure how old you are but I am ready for marriage and babies and the clock is ticking.
    Unfortunately for me, I can stay another year and just wait for my bf in this same state I have to explore other options if I want my ultimate goal.

  157.  #157Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    I read Kaitlyn’s post somewhere these days where she says she is not eating and is afraid of dating.. Hope she started to shift towards eating.. I have a very hard time dealing with ‘what is’ and not what I imagine or want, but in a way it’s easier and much more real. I can never accept ‘what is’, hence my switching 4 countries alone with a kid I guess. So it can be positive too. I’m sure Kaitlyn has her examples.. ‘What is’ can have various interpretations, often not what I thought it was at all… only time tells.. Plus ‘what is’ is not forever, it’s what we have today, who knows what tomorrow brings;) Better not to be hungry when it comes, distracts your attention

  158.  #158Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    @86: Jacqueline

    Thanks for link to amale dating coach’s blog. I’d like to see what a male dating coach thinks of possibilities for older males.

    Wait… I’d better go tell sweetie to sit down while I read it to him. Maybe I should get him a refreshing drink first…

    I hope it’s good news. Or we will create our own story. 😀


  159.  #159Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Way to go Daria !!
    Amazes me the guys who need to keep patting their egos with phone contact but no intention of meeting.

  160.  #160Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:27 pm


    Haha ‘obedient’ is not a doormat. it’s someone open and respectful, keeping certain behavior rules that are supposed to help a relationship grow.

  161.  #161Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:28 pm


    I know, I know, I’m just saying that in my 4 years in New York and I met a lot of people, the ones who were single, remained single.

  162.  #162Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    i feel horny!!!


  163.  #163Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    @80: Jeannette says:
    “…Girls, my daughter and I had a discussion today about my fiance. Any thoughts?…”

    Yes, I’d tell her to butt out. How do you feel? That’s the important thing not how your daughter feels. Rori has several posts on choosing the right man and they are based on his interest in us and how we feel with him.

    And by the way, that thing she said that’s not even a feeling! Fuhgeddabout it!



  164.  #164Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm


    RE: #151 – Right on! Yay for Daria! Your feeling messages are perfectamundo!

  165.  #165Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Alonka – eek i feel icky with the word “obedient”

    i’m not sure what behavior rules would go under obedient.

    but to me obedient makes me think dog/ child.

    however, a feminine energy woman does follow a man… but not when she doesn’t feel good.

  166.  #166Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    I am going to bed in the next 10 minutes hopefully I can say goodnite to one more comment

  167.  #167Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    I’m in bed catching up on blog… I looked over to see if Sweetie was in bed… He was standing up, putting on his jacket… He said he’s pissed at Jacqueline so he’s going for a run. It feels great that my Sweetie gets me and empathizes with me and that he hates seeing his sweet girl treated this way. He is so smart and loving and good. I love you, Sweetie. Maybe I will be caught up reading blog when you get back and we can play. 🙂

  168.  #168Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Thanks ladies!

    woo hoo me!

    i feel good that he did not reply

    i do NOT want to start feeling more and more turned off and heartbroken

  169.  #169Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    i feel good WHEN he did not reply

    (i’d feel even better of course if he replied… baby i’m sorry, i am getting my friend to give me a ride there right now… do you want to come out?)

    but i feel HAPPY that i still feel GOOD!


  170.  #170Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    I want to heal and not be a crumb taker.

  171.  #171Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    perhaps my triggers aroudn teh word “obedient” are my own… just saying i personally feel triggered and turned off by the word

  172.  #172Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm


    I don’t know how to explain it.. or change. I guess it comes from childhood – being the only child of very good loving parents, where we always, all 3 of us, were constantly trying to make each other happy.. make steps towards each other. And later in life my first intention is always to do what I’m asked and understand and create that relationship space. I have to force myself not to do it when I understand it’s not right and even then it’s not easy.

  173.  #173Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Brenda – yay! you will now that you stated the intent!

    i am healing too! woo hoo!!

  174.  #174Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Daria, I wish I was that strong.

  175.  #175anna on April 7, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    not sure, it is like you are feeling my exact feelings. My gut says we are going to make it, I just need to be patient. Either way to me this is worth the risk…i wish you all the best with ur relationship and I don’t think you are crazy. It just shows what you will do for kove and that is amazing. Hopefully we can talk again soon. Sweet dreams!

  176.  #176Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Alonka – i may relate. I am an only child of loving parents too. took lots of steps since finding Rori’s blog… to doing and focusing on ME…

  177.  #177Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:37 pm


    Thanks! I will heal! I intend to heal! I pray I will heal! I pray I will be strong! I go first class all the way. I don’t need second class. It’s not ok for any man to treat me like I am inferior.

  178.  #178Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    Brenda – it just takes one time (then i may mess up and fall off, but if i did it once and felt the powerfulness, i know i will get back to doing it again)

  179.  #179Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:38 pm


    I am not upset with you saying this about ‘obedient’ 😉 I don’t see it as negative, and it’s really hard to change it anyway.

  180.  #180SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    I would like to throw in my two cents about feeling messages.

    I do my best to express most of my feeling messages in a positive way. I seem to have the best results with that, both that they are better received and that I feel better all the way around.

    I’m learning to express myself and what I feel and communicate it in a way that does not attack. The man I am seeing has not attacked me, but occasionally will say something in mixed company that makes me feel judged or stereotyped. As soon as I notice I am making up the answers in my head to “what did he mean by that?”, I stop and ask him with feeling messages.

    Sometimes I forget the I feel part and use words like I wonder and/or I am curious. It seems to prevent me from trips to despair and misunderstanding. He then speaks directly to the issue of whatever I am wondering about and I get to feel good right away. He says I’m not like most women and he likes the way I am.

    Since most humans default to negative voices, positive feeling messages tend to make everyone feel better. I also think because we all have built in filters that are going to interpret every conversation and every circumstance differently, that it’s even more important to express feelings as positively as possible.

    I think (yes I used think again) that the more I can express myself in a positive way, the more I can focus on the positive. If I can focus on the positive my thoughts will be positive, which my feelings will then follow.

    And then I feel good.


  181.  #181Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Alonka – Toxic men has some stuff about this… Trained life themes…

    “you first” was the one that showed up most for me

  182.  #182Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Oh ok, then you know 😉

  183.  #183turquoise3 on April 7, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    The vibe on the blog the past few days has been kind of hostile…. myself included in the debate with Lucy, all because we feel we are right, or have interpreted the information one way, when it was meant another.
    This doesn’t feel good or positive or encouraging, and several women on here are getting their feelings hurt. It almost seems like we are taking what is said TOO literally, just for the sake of us being right or opinionated, ugh. Even with FW, when J said she owed you a birthday, you took that word OWE so literally, that even though you said thank you… to me, that read with some attitude. Again, probably not the way you meant it, but the way it made me feel. I have a fever and a headache, so maybe it’s just me… but I feel STRESSED reading these comments.

    I think there are a lot of wonderful women here, and it’s great to share ideas and perspective and to help each other see things in a new way. We come from different areas of the world, are at different stages in our lives and really can share wonderful insight with each other. I respect and value that aspect of this blog. Getting caught up in… basically arguments over how something was meant or inferred, whether it was directed at you or not… seems defeating. I don’t want to participate in that.

    The argument about who is right with CD’ing… it’s preference. I haven’t heard any women on here saying that they are completely head over heels in love with a man, and are still going on romantic dates with other men. We talk about dating ourselves, our friends, and smiling at the waiter.. we aren’t talking about having affairs and cheating on a man who has made a committment to us. Regardless though, that is a personal choice we’ll each have to make when we meet a man we’d even WANT to marry. That is the thing that concerns me the most… it seems like the idea here is that we don’t want to be girlfriends, we want to be committed, but that within 3-6 months, we should know we want to spend the rest of our lives with one man. I knew in a few months that I loved my husband and would want to marry him, but my life was a lot less complicated at 20. I now have children to bring into this, a life of my own, and all of that would have to merge together with his. Marriage was a lot harder than I thought, and my divorce nearly broke me. I would absolutely love to fall in love and plan a life with someone, but I’m in no hurry to rush that decision and especially for it to be based on a man who’s still in his best behavior mode. I’m concerned… and still trying to figure out how I will handle CD’ing and real relationships.

    Rori, thank you for all the information. I see a lot of mistakes I’ve made in my life regarding love and romance, but the biggest one has not been valuing myself enough to leave a bad relationship, feeling I really deserved to be happy, and to not worry so much about things I couldn’t control.

    Someone recently posted that maybe some of us shouldn’t be dating if we don’t have these things figured out, and I’m starting to think she was right. If I don’t know absolutely who I am, what I want and where I want to be in life, how in the world is trying to bring another person into my life to share, build, dream and compromise with, how is that going to work?

    I have a lot to think about. I hope the vibe here will be more uplifting, positive and encouraging to each other again soon.

    Boomer, if you leave, I’ll miss you. Please keep in touch.

    JIlly, you are doing great, just be patient and enjoy the ride. You potentially have your whole relationship in front of you, no need to rush.

    Alonka, I think you are a sweetheart and some really great guy will be so lucky to find you.

    All other sirens… thanks so much for listening, caring and being here for me. 🙂 I hope everyone sleeps well and has a wonderful weekend!

  184.  #184Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    #180: YES! Big time.

  185.  #185Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Alonka – unfortunately if it IS in the “doormatty” way… it has to change for us to find happiness… and it’s NOT that hard… just takes lots of babysteps…

    I feel happy with Rori’s work because

    I decided to change myself// only to discover i’m only changing my behaviors

    started for a man// only to discover i’m actually doing it for MY HAPPINESS

    i don’t want to change for a man, but i DO want to change for me to be happy


    and it’s been possible

    and getting more possible by the second

    it just got exponentially more possible since the typing of this post

  186.  #186Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Someone recently posted that maybe some of us shouldn’t be dating if we don’t have these things figured out, and I’m starting to think she was right. If I don’t know absolutely who I am, what I want and where I want to be in life, how in the world is trying to bring another person into my life to share, build, dream and compromise with, how is that going to work?

    — because by bringing other people in, we heal FASTER! (MUCH MUCH FASTER)

    because we don’t have to be “fully” healed to share life.. and neither are the people we interact with necessarily healed

    — because it feels more loving and fun!

    — because we’re lovable and are a gift even when we’re not fully “cooked”


  187.  #187Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:44 pm


    RE: #177 – Right on, once that weak cycle is broken, gets easier and more automatic to take the strong, healthy path. Then the weak cycle gets weaker and weaker, until it breaks the hold. Strong and healthy get to be second nature. That is how I am more and more. Still in process, but feeling more on top.

  188.  #188Alonka on April 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm


    #184: I don’t know, sometimes I get so confused in the moment and afraid to say ‘the wrong’ thing or non-FM thing that I just shut up and lose myself.. need to work more on this.

  189.  #189Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm


    RE: #185 – I agree. I think two people can encourage each other to be their best self.

  190.  #190Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    @58: Alonka says:
    ” …About that guy who told me he got 400 emails on a dating site in 2 weeks – he wasn’t bragging…”

    I think I read some place where a male coaching guy said something like:

    Seventy year olds are trying to date women fifteen years younger
    And they in turn are looking for men five years older, sixty not seventy.
    Meanwhile the Sixty year olds the 55 year women have their eye on, those men want to be forty so they only want 38 year old women.
    The 38 year old women claim they look ten years younger and they only want 35 year old men
    who are looking at 27 year old women.

    tee hee 😛


  191.  #191Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Brenda – you will be. you already are, you just need to take that one babystep

    like i did last night when my dad wanted me to do one thing but i wanted – and my intuition said – to sleep. i felt terrified, went to sleep and slept AMAZINGLY

  192.  #192Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    ahem…I have horniness!!!

    SLV- the male dating coach is actually kind of fascinating and gets tons of commenters. He has RULES, too! and you don’t get to talk about your personal stuff only the post of the week -wow, Rori is so the bomb! and we are lucky.

    But I say he’s wise and obviously hugely successful – tons of commenters!….

    and I would invite all who are judging him to go see…he even talks about his OWN failings…omgosh –

    What never occurs to some women is that:

    They’re being evaluated on far more than their most “impressive” traits.

    These traits sometimes come with a significant downside that is painful to acknowledge.

    Take me, for example. I’m a reasonably bright guy. I make a fair living. I can write a decent joke. These are my good traits. But right behind my good traits are a series of bad traits. Anyone reading this blog can see that:

    …Despite her impressive credentials – attractive, successful, intelligent – she might not be giving men what THEY WANT.

    The flip side of being bright is being opinionated.

    The flip side of being analytical is being difficult.

    The flip side of being funny is being sarcastic.

    The flip side of having moral clarity is being arrogant.

    The flip side of being entrepreneurial is being a workaholic.

    The flip side of being charismatic is being self-centered.

    whipsmart can be arrogant, intelligent can be opinionated….lol! with a sense of humor.

    Did you know that no kidding 5 out of 6 women from an ABC news story found women would only go out with a man who is 5’3″ if the others were that word(s) I shall not say – so will use “criminal” instead?

    Humor makes everything better and you made me laugh in agreement on #153!!

    Give your sweet honey a hug and a pat – but not with the whip? ‘less it’s kinky nite at your house!

    Everyone, Sirens, Divas, Confuzzled and Queens…

    night night!

  193.  #193Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:48 pm


    I got mullein today! I like it! TY again! The clerk at the health food store also recommended slippery bark for bronchitis, saying it loosens it up.

  194.  #194Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Alonka – it takes practice. i felt really encouraged when Virigina Feingold Clark – i think it was her – commented recently on one of the posts…

    and said she started to feel really powerful about life when she started Expressing herself fully without taking into account of whether she would be judged or not

    i practice this and it feels AMAZING and transformative in my life

    (btw we get judged even when we do what others want – but if we do what WE want, we inspire others, even though they may judge first. This has started healing my family, I feel happy about it)

  195.  #195Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    @62: Femininewoman says:
    “..Alonka I live in New York and many of my friends and colleagues here are married….”



  196.  #196Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Brenda – make tea in a sealed jar overnight.


    drink 4 cups a day and your bronchitis will be bye bye FAST

  197.  #197Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    that despite her credentials just jumped in there?…the point is he disses himself too – equal opportunity guy!

    Turquoise, lots of love and feel better; I do and it’s amazing! all the air I’ve breathed today!!!

    ((hugs)) on your pillow!

  198.  #198Celtic Blue on April 7, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    “But if you’re going to perpetually question my intentions and tell me you’re freaking out and have to date other guys, it’s gonna drive MOST men in the opposite direction.”

    I totally agree with this.

    Its gotta be quiet and subtle and CDing in my opinion is valuable and I dont like to see it get thrown out on the wording. I would NEVER say it as you have quoted Rori myself.

    I would likely say my own truth like this ” I love your company and the relationship we are developing. I love our sex life too and I am not sleeping with any one else. I feel uncomfortable not seeing other male friends though unless marriage is on the table with us , and please take as long as feels right for you to make that decision.”

  199.  #199Jacqueline on April 7, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Bren Bren – you sick too? ((angels)) on your shoulder!!


  200.  #200Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Brenda – i just recently spent a month and a half humiliating myself and chasing a man as an Experiment.

    this is GREAT! because i was aware and now i FELT that it FELT bad (rather than just knowing it would)


    and it was a lot faster than the years it took me with the last time i ran that pattern!


  201.  #201Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Finished Rori’s article but haven’t yet read the comments… This is interesting… Maybe that’s why I haven’t had to use the no-gf form of CDing – bc I’m not afraid to just walk away when it’s not working for me. I was kinda wondering why that form hasn’t ever seemed to be appropriate for my circumstances. Huh.

  202.  #202Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 8:57 pm


    RE: #195 – The Mullein I got was in liquid form with a dropper. I squirted a few droppers-full into my mouth, and it’s actually quite tasty and sweet!

    Jacqueline, you may want to do a find/search for bronchitis or your name, cuz I gave you a few posts, sharing what was shared with me recently about treating bronchitis. I think it’s on the last thread. I’ve been coughing my lungs out for going on 8 weeks!

  203.  #203Daria on April 7, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Brenda – hmm… i wonder how that form will work. I haven’t heard much about mullein as a tincture.

    i know that mullein oil is great for earaches!

  204.  #204Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    @67: Lin says:
    “…i am weak….”

    No, you are not weak. You can feel love.

    “ reply from him. Shame on me! i got myself humiliated again!….”

    Don’t worry about it. I bet everyone on this blog has done this and more than once. So, if you don’t want to contact him. Don’t contact him again. Start fresh, don’t contact him again until he contacts you. You haven’t lost anything.

    If maybe some other guy is asking you out, go out to dinner with him, get yourself sparkled up and have some fun.



  205.  #205turquoise3 on April 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Daria… half cooked? LOL… thanks for that, I can go to bed smiling 🙂 And you are right, faster to heal with others in our lives… just need to keep things in perspective, not get distracted from healing myself by trying to figure these men out. Thanks for that. 🙂

    Jacqueline, thanks. You sleep well too. Glad you are feeling better.

  206.  #206Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 9:00 pm


    RE: #199 – That’s really good. I’m not there yet, but I am making progress.

    One good thing is I no longer take people’s advice who encourage me to just get A man (even if he’s impotent, or even if I’m not in love with him, etc) because my biological clock is ticking and because I’m extra buttery. Some friends think I should just settle.

    Noway! I’d rather be single than be with the wrong man.

    Even tho I still have too much contact with Ryan, at least it is becoming more positive. And at least I would not marry him unless issues were resolved. I am discussing him with my counselor a lot. I am really taking to heart all she and you Sirens say, because I want to fix myself.

  207.  #207Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 9:03 pm


    RE: #202 – I felt instant clarity in breathing the moment I swallowed it!

    TY for the info on using that for earaches. My dogs have allergies from airborne allergens, according to my vet. They have recurring yeast infections in their ears. I got them ear drops today, too, with tea tree leaves and euchinacea. I used them successfully in the past.

  208.  #208Not sure on April 7, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Thanks Anna. I hope to remember this site and prayerfully see you back here soon. It was good to have at least one person listening to me and really be heard. Hopefully we can continue because I need the emotional support to keep my head on straight and if the feelings of depression come in to keep them at bay. Because I so much long to be with the man where I can be the twinkle in his eye and the woman that he dreams off and he can be the man that I run home to cook share dinner with him…hopefully it is not a dream and one day I will wake up and it truly it will be my reality. Heck it happens for other people. So I pray that God will make it happen for me!

  209.  #209Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    @75: Femininewoman says:
    “… People sometimes lie because of perceived fears….”

    I want a brave one too. It’s even ickier if the man is afraid of a woman, a grandmother or something.


  210.  #210SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 9:06 pm


    whenever I do herbal drops like that in liquid form, I always follow it with a warm beverage. I don’t know that that helps the absorption rate to be faster scientifically, but it felt more soothing to include it.

    Eight weeks is a very long time to be coughing like that. Please be good to you. I like to make a steam tent with eucalyptus (sic) oil. I place a cup or so of boiling water over 5 to 10 drops of oil. drape a towel over my head and breathe. You may find that you cough more this way, and if you’ve been coughing as much as you have, you may not want this treatment. But I find it loosens up the crud and cleanses my lungs and sinuses quicker.

    I know spas that use eucalyptus oil in their steam saunas because of its healing properties for both sinuses and lungs.

    Also, with that amount of time coughing, are you checking in with your physician? Bronchitis can make the trip to pneumonia. I hope you feel better soon.


  211.  #211turquoise3 on April 7, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Brenda, I can relate to where you are with Ryan, because even though he treated you so badly… you still care for him, and wish things could work with you. My ex husband did a lot of terrible things, said awful things, hit me, lied to me, gambled large amounts of money, scared me, was verbally abusive, was always on me to lose weight… and for a LONG time, I still wanted him. And he is receptive to talking about our past, regrets how things were, flirts with me, can be really kind and caring, and then… out of no where, the delicate friendship we are building, gets pulled out from under me. He blows up about something that happened years ago, or over me not answering the phone right away, or something he thinks I’m doing wrong, and it all crumbles again. JUST like you said, you’d rather be alone than to settle for the wrong many. It sounds like Ryan, is the wrong man. People do grow and change, but if you could shift your focus off Ryan completely, for say… 60 days, make it a challenge to not have any contact with him for that amount of time, you might surprise yourself and find someone new to think about a future with.

    We have kids, so I can’t totally get my ex out of my life, and really…after 17 years of history, I wouldn’t want to. BUT, I had to free myself of wanting him back by knowing I deserved better. And, even if I never get married again, I do enjoy dating, meeting new people, and having an opportunity to have more.

    You deserve every happiness in life, don’t settle for someone who can’t or won’t give you what you want 🙂

  212.  #212Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    @90: anna says:
    .”…Do you think it’s a bad sign he didn’t askme?…”

    If it was a invitation for him to come as a couple and he didn’t invite/mention it to you… IMHO, yes I’d regard it as a bad sign. And if I might ask, why six years? That’s a long time. Are you looking for a marriage relationship?


  213.  #213Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    @103: Celtic Blue says:
    “…(This sounds like faking it and stuffing down my feelings, adopting a position of weakness and losing my sense of self while I await his judgment of my worthiness …and for a LONG TIME .)…”

    I say it doesn’t matter much if the guy isn’t callously wasting her time, wasting time is wasting time.


  214.  #214Jilly on April 7, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    awww…Camile..thank you those were sweet words 🙂 yes…i want to/plan on enjoying the ride…this is the really fun exciting part 🙂 getting to know each other…
    hope you feel better 🙂 are fun and spicy too along with those other things…i love your dry sense of humor 🙂

    notsure and anna
    ….i ended up being on the phone and couldn’t respond again but we all read the posts and just keep coming back and you will receive help…

    SLV…just saying hi…haven’t “talked” with you directly in a few days and just want to let you know i’m thinking of you 🙂 and your sweetie 😉 and i felt sad reading on the other thread that you might not be around anymore for “work” reasons…i hope you stay around and keep posting for a long time! 🙂

  215.  #215Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    @105: anna says:
    “…sometimes as small as him wanting to go to a wedding alone makes me doubt everything…”

    Is there something about you that he doesn’t know that he needs more time to find out? Some male dating coaches think six years is more than ample… I think so too. I’d be moving on if I wanted to get married. If you are happy I say that’s fine; not all women choose to marry. It’s all up to you.


  216.  #216Daria on April 7, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Thank you Daria for writing that letter to the bank!

    Thank you for practing H’oponopono last night and today!

    Thank you for washing all my sheets and vacuuming the floors and mattress.

    Thank you for giving me a vinegar bath

    Thank you for feeding me!

    Thank you for taking the time to pace my outdoor work to feel comfortable

    Thank you for enlisting mom to help

    Thank you for filling out the forms and filing them for me!

    Thank you for bathing me !

    Tahnk you for brushign my teeth!

    Thank you for dressing me warmly!

    Thank you for painting me with love.

  217.  #217Daria on April 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Daria is the bomb bomb diggity!

  218.  #218Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:44 pm


    Hey, Boomer. I hope nobody got a ‘natti girl down. As FW told me, an opinion is just an opinion. LonePlum has some good things to say so look things over and take what works for you. You have your own point of view too regarding your sexuality and what you are looking for in relationships.

    We Porkopolis girls might have temperatures that run a degree or two hotter. I think I do. 😛

    I’ve had sexy relationships with men who treated me like a princess and I was very happy too. Why not? I am a princess! I think you are too 😀 Work out what is best for you. I think men are crazy these days and I don’t care that some male dating coaches think they must be coddled at all cost.

    You didn’t mention you were a “working girl” so no need to worry about what they do. You are you!

    There are no guarantees regardless of what you do, so first, I say, make yourself happy. If some guy wants to join in, cool… 8)



  219.  #219Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Okay I’m up to #42 and have to say, Evan dear :), that being a man doesn’t necessarily mean that you understand All men and how they think. Most legitimate research points to more variance within genders than between genders, and that has been my personal experience and observation as well. (One of many examples – my mom always tells me I think and act just like my dad and nothing like her.) So being a man has nothing to do with “understanding men and how they think” – except when it comes to one man: you.

  220.  #220Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    (cont’d) There is a lot of variety among men – all kinds of thinkers, doers, lovers, poets, heroes, saints, and sinners. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. <3 Lucy

  221.  #221Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    @112: Mercedes says:
    “…sheesh! I respected you until that last comment… ….You sound more like she’s lucky to be with you because you communicate so well. I’m sure you do, but with women, you seem to be missing the mark here a little.,,,”

    Ohhh, you haven’t read anything…


  222.  #222Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 9:55 pm


    …there’s more…


  223.  #223Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    @116: Alonka says:
    “…Or Oscar Wilde…”

    Maybe not Oscar Wilde. Did he use words that began with “pr-“..? 😆 He was a bit randy although in an ever so elegant yet foppish way… LOL 😆

    Maybe GBS… follow his direction and you’ll live a long time if you don’t mind living without surf and turf. 😆


  224.  #224SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Rori says in her programs that we are experimenting. The tools are not rules. We get to try them out and experiment and use what fits best with each of us. I am paraphrasing as I remember it.

    One of the things I like best about her approach; she’s not a my way is the only way kinda teacher. Another thing I really like is her commitment to each of us working on feeling better about ourselves.

    Oh, and PG, I almost forgot… I wish I lived near you because I so wish I could come to your play!


  225.  #225Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Evan/Alonka 53. Interesting point! Evan, when you were ready to marry your wife, if she had said she still wasn’t sure yet that you were the one, how long would you have waited for her to decide?

  226.  #226Lisi on April 7, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    Alonka —

    Thanks. I had to stop reading the blog, because it was taking too much of my time.

    I can’t keep up properly and do all the other things I’m trying to do!

    But, I always scan the feed for any item with my name in it.


  227.  #227Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    @166: Lucy says:
    “…I’m in bed catching up on blog… I looked over to see if Sweetie was in bed… He was standing up, putting on his jacket…:”

    A jacket. You have a very developed sweetie. My sweetie is energy field… 😥

    Oh, I’ll be happy. We can share thoughts sometimes… 😀


  228.  #228Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    @191: Jacqueline says:
    “…ahem…I have horniness!!!…”

    LOL 😆


  229.  #229Lisi on April 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Okay — what do other sirens know about using “challenging” a man in flirtation.

    I’ve done it with two guys recently — and they both liked it.

    I challenged one to know details about a sci-fi book he listed in his profile, and challenged the other to identify some lyrics.

    They both seemed to enjoy proving that the knew what I challenged them on. Maybe I’m testing for Warrior?

    That’s supposed to be my type.

    Definitely, I’m challenging them about intelligence, but in a fun way, not a competitive way.

    Anyone else have experience with this?


  230.  #230Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    @191: Jacqueline says:

    “…The flip side of being bright is being opinionated.
    The flip side of being analytical is being difficult.
    The flip side of being funny is being sarcastic.
    The flip side of having moral clarity is being arrogant.
    The flip side of being entrepreneurial is being a workaholic.
    The flip side of being charismatic is being self-centered…”

    Sounds like some of the male dating coaches.

    BTW, that’s how I found Rori from a male dating coach. Whooda thunk?


  231.  #231Senior Lady Vibe on April 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Oops ::oops: I left out a comma… hope you can figure it out…

  232.  #232Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    Celtic Blue, I think you are doing a very good job clarifying the nuances of CDing for Evan. Also, I’m so glad you are enjoying some positive male attention! <3

  233.  #233Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    Mercedes, I too got a jolt from Evan’s remark about communication. He obviously hasn’t dated you or me. 😉

  234.  #234Laughing Goddess on April 7, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I feel awesome 😉

  235.  #235Daria on April 7, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    Laughing Goddess – I do too! 🙂

  236.  #236Laughing Goddess on April 7, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    I had a fun-filled day.

    Had teleclass with Rori which is awesome!
    Then dog obedience class which I love and is really good for the little guy.
    Then did an acro-yoga class with LI for the first time

    I have been wanting to get involved with things like this for a while and I feel very thrilled that I am doing it.

    And I also have my nlp session coming up and family constellations and so much fun stuff. I have a haircut tomorrow which I really need.

    Yesterday I did some spring cleaning while listening to the wish recording. I felt so peaceful yet productive doing that.

    My boy is taking care of my girl’s needs!


  237.  #237SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 11:03 pm


    glad you had such a good day. love hearing about your teleclass. I’m interested in NLP, I have a book or two and have tried some techniques with some success. It’s great stuff.


  238.  #238Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    LG – wow that sounds AWESOME!

    I would love to do family constellations.

    Please don’t get your haircut tomorrow :(. It will really slow down your new growth. (unless you want that)

    here’s a chart I use. It has worked for me.

  239.  #239sweetmandm on April 7, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    I have received some excellent resources, first from Christian Carter, who in turn, turned me on to Rori. CC’s way of sharing insight is so straight forward ( maybe not all agreed with or appreciated) but shows compassion. I feel good about that kind of approach, regardless if I agree with everything or not!

    I am feeling very thankful! I am also feeling confused as to why we are needing to debate so much on the blog right now. Especially with so much rough energy. It doesn’t feel like other “discussion for discussions sake” moments. I personally can’t wait for it to pass!

    We are all on here I believe, because we find value in what we have found here and the resources we are offered. I enjoy it so much, when we are just supporting one another in what we have found of value in this place! 🙂 So then, I am feeling confused as to why the debate got so carried away and heated. Going back however to the value and enjoyment place.

    I noticed some were just ignoring those bits and pieces…..haha! 😉

    Looking forward to a positve vibe day tomorrow!

    Night! BIG HUGS TO ALL!

  240.  #240Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Summerbaby, thanks for the shout-out and empathy. 🙂

  241.  #241SummerBaby on April 7, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    hope my sleep schedule is back to normal soon.

    I’ve been experiencing a move of intense proportions that is taking a very long time. If I neglected to respond to anyone who’s addressed me, please forgive my oversight.

    Going to try and sleep now.

  242.  #242Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Thank you Daria for brushing my teeth, and my hair. Thank you for getting me in bed. Thank you for grabbing a chair to pit my clothes on.

    Thank you for making a makeshift cover for my light

  243.  #243Lorelei on April 7, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    Hi everyone

    I’m catching up with the blog after a few busy days away. And I seem to have missed a very interesting convo on the previous thread. I am dying with curiosity – but what was the previous thread called?

    PS I love the way Evan Marc Katz talks about a man’s perspective. Men are human beings too. And I agree that many good men would be utterly horrified to hear the woman they are moving closer and closer to and beginning to feel more for suddenly announce she’ll go over-attached and act weird if they become more exclusive, so she’ll date around.

    I’m guessing that a good man might start thinking that such a woman might not be faithful if they married . .

    Just my perspective.

    Somewhere, in the programmes, and I can’t remember which one, and need to listen to them through again, Rori says something about giving a guy a chance, perhaps for a named period of time . . I can’t recall exactly how she suggests putting it, but it’s something like, well, let’s see how we’re doing by Christmas, or 6 months. Sorry I can’t be more specific. But it is evidence that Rori has mentioned being exclusive for a season.

    Evan is pretty much saying the same thing: i.e. If it’s not going anywhere, get out. When I listen to Evan, on his blog, I feel reassured and understood. I feel safe with what he says, and how he comes across. Just as I do with Rori.

    My truth probably lies somewhere between the two perspectives.

  244.  #244Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Hey ! I have noticed a huge difference in how easy it is to take care of myself since saying these thank yous.

    I’m saying them for self validation purposes – but have noticed that I’m automatically brushing my hair, my teeth, bathing… Things I was skipping before.

    Now even if I’m tired or overwhelmed.. I find myself doing them as a routine, without effort on my part.

    Im not even thinking about them… My brain just doesem.

  245.  #245Laughing Goddess on April 7, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Daria: Oooh that’s a tough decision

    I feel so not thrilled with my current haircut and I am almost willing to risk cutting on a bad day.

    Mmmmm what to do?

    I gotta feel into this. I was so happy to be getting it cut. I thought that 1st quarter of the moon was a good time but this is saying something different.

  246.  #246Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    I know and am confident in Myself that I am able to and want to be faithful.

    I feel confident that that will come across to a man who can himself.

  247.  #247Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 11:45 pm


    RE: #209 – Thank you! I will try that!

    My only option right now is a free clinic. I kept putting it off because of various reasons, primarily because I had to gather documentation in order to be reaccepted as a patient. I didn’t feel up to it, between the illness and depression. I was sleeping thru the hours when they evaluated new patients.

    I finally went on Tuesday, only to be sent away to gather about 4 more documents. It is in process. They are far busier than when i was a patient there in 2008, and after I am approved as a qualifying patient (income guidelines, residency, bills, etc), I would have to wait a month just to get an appointment.

    Inotherwords, for this illness, they are now worthless. So I am continuing to pursue alternative medicine methods. I feel good about taking Mucinex, fenugreek, concentrated oregano, and Mullein. I had run out of all of it for several weeks and could only afford cough drops. I just took the money and got stocked up again, and it seems to be working.

  248.  #248Laughing Goddess on April 7, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Daria: you thanking yourself has been very inspiring to me too. I feel excited to hear that these habits are becoming routine. I’m trying to incorporate my self care routines and I really resist. Perhaps this is my path in.

  249.  #249Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Daria, I can’t click the link on my phone – are you saying a haircut tomorrow will cause hair to grow more slowly? That would be great for me – mine grows too fast. I missed my hair appt Tuesday bc had to take d to hospital – so need to reschedule.

  250.  #250Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Lg – I use the chart and it makes a huge difference. The difference is so big and noticeable that I don’t even do hair removal/shaving on cut days.

    That’s cuz I wound up w a big mustache.

    Now I removed twice on hair removal days and haven’t had mustache growth in weeks.

    I also cut my hair on a strengthening day last. It strengthened.

    I mean the difference is super big.

    I feel blessed to have this info, it’s very powerful for me.

  251.  #251Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Lucy – yes it will grow Much more slowly… Because it’s a day for retarding growth.

    However id say cut the hair on a beautifying day instead.

  252.  #252Laughing Goddess on April 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Summerbaby: I’m just starting to learn about nlp and so far I love it!

    I hope you get back some good sleep!!!


  253.  #253Daria on April 7, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    I’ll get over attached and act weird because I’ll ne wanting marriage… Not just cuz I will for no reason.

  254.  #254Brenda on April 7, 2011 at 11:54 pm


    More thoughts on Circular Dating…

    Once I attended a business conference for entreprenuers. They discussed the concept called, “the power of loss”. They suggested offering sales packages that only have limited spaces or the price was only good for such and such number of days…

    The idea was that if a potential buyer thought it was a deal that wouldn’t last, they would jump on it.

    I would say every analogy breaks down somewhere, but this is a suitable analogy for circular dating. This tool is used for relationships that are stuck. Men statistically shy off from committing. When I circular date, it is my way of saying, “I am the package deal. There is only one of me, and I won’t be on the market for years. If you want to wait, fine, no pressure. But I might not be around next year, or next month. I want to be a wife.”

    I don’t know if you can understand this, but as a woman, I often feel powerless in a relationship. I don’t feel free to ask a man out. I don’t feel free to call a man (even tho I do, to my detriment). It is a dance where a man leads. And the energy gets out of sync if I try to lead.

    So when you were single, you could ask out a woman on a Friday or Saturday night and CHOOSE to go out. I sit home many Friday and Saturday nights, wishing a man would ask me out. It can be very lonely and frustrating.

    Circular Dating means I have several men pursuing me, so I can have some choice in the matter, to choose who I will date on a Friday or Saturday night.

    The power of loss…what do you think?

  255.  #255Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    SLV – sweetie just got back from his run – that was looonnng! He is training for a marathon. He’s all sweaty and wants to know if I prefer he showers before getting into bed. I’m not sure – I’m pretty sweaty myself with these hot flashes. I’ll turn on the fan. He smells manly and sexy. Oh he’s so cute. He just gave me such a cute smile! SLV, I am realizing now that your sweetie tool gave me the mental framework to basically do Tinque’s fantasy-pasting! Is that right, Tinque? Am I on the right track? Tha

  256.  #256Lucy on April 7, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Thanks to both of you! <3

  257.  #257SOL on April 8, 2011 at 12:01 am

    I’ve been interested in rori work for a while, and have been familiar with CD but not practised it.

    Recently I just GOT it…big time!

    How I eventually got it, is a long story –
    the short version – I had been saving myself sexually for the right man (for what turned out to be two years, with one moment one morning where I had sex twice with guy I really liked)…

    I then met someone I really liked a LOT – he is a player (oh why oh why did I go there…) who has from the very beginning told me he will sleep with other

    Recently – basically – he labelled me an insecure, prick teasing, game playing, bitch who treats her (male) friends with disdain.

    I got labelled this because at a party (I had organised), that he was at I spent time connecting to my male friends – some who do want to ‘fuck’ me,

    I was labelled this by a man I was feeling exceptionally strong feelings for (a man who made my heart melt at just a glance and who I told all my closest friends at the party – including the male ones – that I thought this could be it). I was being exclusive with him my heart, body, and behaviour, and I thought he might be the ‘one’ for me – for lots of reasons. I also made the classic mistake of thinking he would want to stop sleeping with other women through the love that was starting to build between us. He got a glimpse of ‘falling’ in love with me, and in his adult life he has not had that experience before (and he is 43), or not with a woman he was actually with. He ‘fell’ in love once before in his early 20’s but never got with this woman.

    Apparently it was obvious to him that I was playing the field still – and it would appear to have triggered him strongly. (remember this is the guy who all along had said he will sleep with other women!)

    So I was offering him exclusivity – he wasn’t!!! and he got angry…oh it tiggles my sides…

    So this situation just woke up something so strong in me….

    From now on I WILL CD – and I will CD happily…
    I will tell every man I am with that unless I have a ring on my finger I am available to be ‘taken’ by other men and I will be very open with this, whether they like it or not. Any man worth his salt will know the truth in this truth….if a man I am seeing is not feeling in his heart that I am the one, and I don’t care if that is on day two or after two years – then I am keeping myself on the ‘market’ – END OF…

    I don’t want a boyfriend I want a husband.

    RORI – Finally I REALLY GET IT !!!!!

    Thank you….

  258.  #258Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 12:11 am


    Re: #210 – thank you!

  259.  #259Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 12:16 am

    SLV and Jacqueline,

    RE: #229 – I like the opposites list, J. SLV, I found Rori thru a male dating coach, too, CC…same for you? What caught my ear was her segment in one of his programs, talking about the water wheel. I got the concept and agree with it in my head…now if I could just communicate it to my heart!

  260.  #260Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Also – Evan – the truth is, lots and lots and lots of good great men know very quickly that they want to marry their girl – and they propose – and marry – and it results in a good, lasting marriage. One such couple now married 40 yrs – were engaged 2 wks after meeting (yes that’s unusually quick). Most of the long successful marriages I know of, proposals took place within 3-6 months. Often ppl just click, they just know, and the time is right. I have had 7 genuine proposals (5 were good healthy men) – I b

  261.  #261Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Good night, Sirens!

  262.  #262Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 12:22 am

    I only said yes to two. The first one, I ended the engagement after a couple months. The second one I married (he turned out to be one of the not healthy ones – long story behind why I married him, basically ignoring my intuition). Anyway, the point is, men often do know what they want and go for it.

  263.  #263Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 12:26 am

    But I still think that Evan and Rori are saying the same thing – just using different words and selecting different scenarios for application. 😉

  264.  #264SOL on April 8, 2011 at 12:48 am

    and I REALLY didn’t handle it as well as I would have liked when all this happened and slipped mainly in to bitch language –
    “hands on hips” – leaning forward, pointing the finger and making him and his behaviour wrong – whilst interspersing this with feeling messages.

    A complex mix…

    With the wisdom of hindsight I can see every point at which things could have gone very differently if I would have stayed in my heart (from the very start of our ‘relationship’) and spoke in feeling messages…

    The times when I managed to do this intuitively and instinctively rather than as consciously as I would have liked, I can see clearly were the moments we both got a small taste of heaven and I felt cherished, sought after, beautiful, and set apart, and he felt like he was ‘falling in love’.

    The ‘game playing prick teasing’ label has proved to be a strong trigger for me – I have never had this one thrown at me before (but then for years I trained myself to open my legs for men when I wasn’t feeling it for them, giving the men I attracted into my life what they wanted).

    I don’t want to play games – I don’t care for games –
    but with each relationship failure I have come to sense the inherent rightness in shifting my energy right into the feminine and there are obvious principles at play with her…principles I have truly struggled to follow because I feel scared to let go of trying to control the relationships direction and my mans behaviour…I have found it pretty difficult to trust…trust my own feminine…

    I’m still learning, still exploring, still feeling my way through it all…

    much love

  265.  #265Lercomari on April 8, 2011 at 3:03 am

    @Jacqueline, thanks for the sympathy about my canceled date. 🙂 I did talk to him this evening though…we actually watched a movie online together (through Yahoo’s zync player) and it was sweet. And we’ve spent the past three hours talking on video call. I like Techie a much so that I can’t be mad about the canceled date anymore. lol. We agreed to meet up next Friday and I can’t wait.
    I realized that I was resenting my positive feelings for Techie at one point because I still honestly love the banker. I have an established history with the banker, and while the banker isn’t dating me, I still love him a lot. However Techie is great. He’s smart, funny, sooo cute and well educated. He’s not the banker, but i’ve started to see that that’s okay.
    So should I add other men to my queue at this point? Still debating that…because he really likes me too and I can’t imagine telling him “btw, I’m dating other guys too…” On the other hand it would be in my favor to date others too in case this one doesn’t work out.

  266.  #266LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 3:38 am


    ***stupid, an annoyance, the most ridiculous woman on Siren Island. It felt like a lecture to me. ***

    I can’t say a word about you feeling stupid. You own your judgments. I can only say you don’t sound stupid or ridiculous from here. I am sure almost no siren is judging you. Processing our incoherence is part of the process of all human beings. The few sirens who might judge others on here are forgetting they did/do the same.
    I receive you as a pretty energetic smiling woman, not as an annoyance, if this may help you.

    ***Without the support I needed/asked for. ***

    What you asked in your last post was a question: what is the difference between authenticity and over sharing.
    I gave you the answer, and the time spent to give a clear answer is my support to you. The truth is what you need.

    I had already written a long post for you, the other day, difficult to express. You read it.

    I was going to write a second post about alpha_something_eye. But I thought you did not seem to appreciate the truth or the time spent to help you, and it costs me energy to write the posts, so I dropped it, hopping you would be all right.

    Apparently I should have written the second post, because he did, indeed, react as I thought he would.
    I felt regret for not writing the second post about him.

    Then you wrote the post with the sexual games on it. Your post meant you have not let the old pattern go.
    I thought I should tell you again, but on the other hand I don’t gladly work to be told I lecture people. I don’t expect thank you either, but I don’t expect to be accused of your life long time feelings. So I was not sure I should give the advice you asked for.
    Then sirens told you to not send the email.
    I felt relieved and stepped away.

    I was not going to post for you ever. I respect when people want to be left alone, even when they say they want advices
    But you asked an important question that shows you are in the dark. My heart sinked for you. I waited to see if somebody gave you a clear answer, not an opinion, an answer.
    I did not spot any answer to your question.
    So I decided to take the risk.
    I dedicated time and energy in putting some light into your doubts.
    I decided to trust you were not wanting to be enabled but you were sincerely asking a question.

    I do understand how it feels. It takes a while to adjust to the new light. I hope you will feel better soon. Some sirens advised you to get rid of the shame, it is useless and false. Although I was not expecting you to feel embarrassed on here, which is a laboratory where surgery is often done. Shame does not fit in a surgeon room. It fits nowhere, once you see life through the filter of truth. You don’t even have to forgive yourself, because you did nothing wrong.
    It just was.
    It can be different from now on. .
    That’s all.
    Or it can keep being as it was. As long as it gets you what you want.


    I forgot to add, you are still on time to shift the vibe. It is always time, remember? When you go to your date, be your best elegant self. If you don’t want him to jump on you sexually, don’t bite his sexual innuendos. Keep it elegant 🙂
    No need to explain why you did play the sex card, just drop it and start afresh. At the most, you can tell that you trustfully followed his lead until you realized he was not leading where you want to go.

    Here is Rose’s post that summarizes Cdating when you don’t want to involve sex.

    ******Men usually seem to think we WANT to be a GF and this is the first thing we have to get clear about. We have a different goal..

    I start with “I am, looking for friendship initially. I want to meet and get to know people and hopefully the man may come along who is right for me and ready for the long haul adventure. I dont want an instant relationship. Meanwhile I am appreciating dating and having fun !

    Later it might be quite clear ” No I cant see you Friday , i am going out with another friend”

    Sex ? Well I have to say that the guys are charming and not pressuring at all for sex when i use the above opener. In fact a couple of men have said its a relief because they dont have to go there early on and they know I am not “wondering if and when they will make a move”. Apparently guys worry about timing the moves and this lets the whole thing simmer down a notch.

    I say ” For me sex comes with relationship and commitment and caring . These things are a package deal and I feel safe and sensual when a man cares for me in an ongoing relationship. Casual sex feels all wrong and is not for me. I dont want to be friends with benefits .”

    They usually look relieved and some have expressed to me that i am obviously a high quality woman , or they admire my boundaries ..(yes really) ..and so I feel ..HIGH QUALITY!!!! Then they ask me out again.

    This whole approach is light years away from where I was years ago after my divorce when i just wanted a man to accept me and I mistook interest for relationship several times over. I was very needy.
    I truly feel great dating several people now and I dont want a relationship unless its the relationship I want , ie love and commitment!*****

    I hope it helps

  267.  #267LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 3:45 am

    39 + 77 femininewoman

    Thank you for helping the communication.


  268.  #268LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 3:48 am

    49 Darling Ella

    Thank you for helping the communication.


  269.  #269LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 3:54 am

    54 Jilly

    Thank you for helping the communication


  270.  #270LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 3:58 am

    74 celtic blue

    Thank you for helping the communication
    and yes, of course I thought of you while I was writing for Boomer
    I wanted to tell you the same thing back then, but I was overwhelmed. I was writing long posts for meemee, it was hard. And there were other sirens asking questions, too.
    Twice I started writing for you. You were physically and emotionally fragile and all that; I did not have the balls to tell you the truth. I thought you needed to believe your story and you would resent my words. I chickened out. If you had asked me, of course I would have told you. But you did not ask, so I kept quiet.
    When you came back broken in pieces, I felt regret.
    This time, with Boomer, I decided to take the risk.


  271.  #271LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 4:00 am

    Summerbaby 85

    Yes that is what I meant
    Thank you for me and for Boomer.


  272.  #272LonePlum on April 8, 2011 at 4:01 am

    Femininewoman 99

     ***I am wondering if this is a way to test men and what they are really about. I am now seeing it as a possible way to weed out PUAs and players. It might be a way to trigger narsicists to show their anger from early on when they don’t get what they expect.***

    Could you develop the idea, please?


  273.  #273Celtic Blue on April 8, 2011 at 4:29 am

    269 LP ,
    I love your wide seeing, and your deep loving care for us all here , and in particular for me.

    I was too weak to understand what was happening in Dec, but I am strong again, and your forbearance was the right call, on the day . And your honesty now is much appreciated. You are a very special women.

  274.  #274Celtic Blue on April 8, 2011 at 4:38 am

    And LP , I needed to go through the final denouement in order to be healed. So no regrets , ok??

    I will never go back to that place. Decembers post cancer episode with him was what needed to happen to PROVE to me his inability . Now it has gone, and after 5years that is blissful!!!!

    I read your story with great sadness and a new understanding of you Loneplum. I want to know are you dating now?

  275.  #275Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 4:41 am


    #223: Yes, you are right, that was O’Henry, now I remember!

    Oscar Wilde did use words starting with ‘pr’ lol. Remember his Ms Prism in The Importance of Being Earnest 😉

  276.  #276Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 4:45 am

    something that EMK said last night bothered me but I had no energy to speak up 😉 He said it would’ve been ok to break up with a woman after 1.5 years of dating on the grounds of having it serious because of her age.

    In my book it’s not ok. In my book it’s ok to do it in the first week.

  277.  #277Celtic Blue on April 8, 2011 at 5:00 am

    Alonka that shi%%ed me off no end ! I read it that way . I too thought He implied that her age and the number of eggs in her ovaries was a good reason to consider breaking up after 18 months. And he apparently agonised about it for some time!! (Have I got this right ??? Someone correct me if not)

    Imagine her feelings if he had? What would he have said to her…” Ah , sorry , I have just wasted 18 months of your precious late fertility years because it takes guys a LONG TIME to decide these things but i really want a gal with more eggs so I can impregnate her more often. I know you have patiently and supportively waited for me for 18 months ,hey , cant argue with biology!”

    Sorry Evan . You didnt say any of this . You married and had a baby with your lovely wife . You were not “that guy” ! I do support some of your views and I applaud you speaking them here.

    He went down a long way in my estimation at that moment.

  278.  #278Mercedes on April 8, 2011 at 5:33 am

    Evan: I love confidence in a man. I detest cockiness…and that’s where you’re going. I seriously wasn’t opposed to hearing what you have to say, even if I disagree with some of it…but that attitude is crazy.

    Yes…I agree…you must have the most patient wife on the planet.

    I get where you’re coming from with the circular dating but you are so closed minded that it kills me. It’s okay to disagree with someone but when you close down and insist women are wrong (all of us here anyway) and you are right and we need to listen to you because you know everything there is to know about all men, it drives me insane.

    I know two women who used circular dating and are now with the man they are going to spend the rest of their lives with: Rori and Me. That should be enough to, at the very least, inspire you to listen to what women have to say. You don’t have to agree, but part of great communication skills is the ability to listen and hear what’s going on under those words.

    Maybe you could use your fabulous communication skills to re-write this and inspire us to hear what you have to say:

    “This is the reward you get for actively participating – every word is dissected and nitpicked and criticized. And it’s not just me. Lots of women here.

    This is the drama we men tire of. These are the eggshells we don’t want to walk on. Taking every little word and twisting it to mean something harmful even when it’s benign, like my comment above.”

    Because that didn’t exactly do it for me.

    No, SLV, I haven’t read much of what he’s written and now, I don’t intend to. I’m sure the traffic on his blog went up substantially after this…which was probably the intent…so I don’t think he needs my help to push it further along. Because it’s not just women who can be “wrong and frustrating”…men can be that way too.

    Much Love,

  279.  #279life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 5:40 am

    Good Morning all,

    what an eventful day on the blog yesterday and night

    I feel sad when I or another feels cursed
    and I am called a crazy bitch
    It makes me feel compassionate towards
    myself and others
    but i still have to keep my boundaries
    and try to keep each moment fresh and alive
    at the same time

    For all the Sirens today, this song
    “Cherish” by the Association

    If you listen to it, imagine you are singing it to yourself!


  280.  #280Mel on April 8, 2011 at 5:42 am

    Re: Celtic Blue

    “If a man doesnt know what he wants then he doesnt want what he has.”

    This is SO true. But unfortunately, just because you get married, it doesn’t guarantee he won’t wake up one day and call everything in his life (including you) into question.

    I think it might be that men have a completely different way of dealing with change and transition. If there is one uncertainty (eg. career decision) they seem to transfer that uncertainty to everything else. At least that’s how it feels for me.

    I think perhaps if we can give them the space and time to figure things out without pressure and drama, it is in these moments that they fall in love (or fall back in love). In some cases, this might mean CD- even if the “dating” is just dating ourselves. It’s really difficult for us women to just sit around and wait for men to make up their minds. It makes us feel powerless and like the relationship is in limbo. Sooner or later our self esteem goes down the toilet. Playing it “cool” is nearly impossible in this situation.

    Perhaps EMK can comment on this, but I think sometimes we expect men to act and behave just like a woman would and then when they don’t, we get frustrated. We just don’t do the whole retreat and withdraw thing, so it’s easy to take it personally. Women often “know” when they’ve met the one and they don’t have to break off connection in order to figure that out. Waiting around seems like cruel and unusual punishment.

  281.  #281SummerBaby on April 8, 2011 at 5:43 am

    No matter the words that anyone uses to communicate what it is they are trying to say, our personal filters (individual as a snowflake) are going to make us believe some very different things than what was actually said.

    This blog is daily evidence of that. Even face to face communications, complete with body language and tone of voice can fall victim to the filters we have. Filters forged of experiences that we created as survival methods from really young ages to cope with life.

    We get torqued by believing the stuff we are making up in our heads about what we read or hear and how we think it was meant, (and yes, I am completely guilty of this as well,) and we assign meaning that makes us feel bad where often none was intended. I’m sure there are instances where people do intend the meanness we feel, but I don’t think it’s done consciously as often as we interpret it.

    I feel a real need to work on changing my filters and get the best results when I focus on loving myself.

    I’m not pointing this post at any person in particular. This is me processing what I feel I need to learn most. I’m just noticing myself more often when I’m making up stories in my head around what I read, and stopping and reminding myself that I do do not need to believe everything I think! This is especially important when listening to negative voices.

    It’s spilled over into my relationship. I have begun to bring things up immediately when I notice I am making up the “what did he mean by that?” parts. I am pleasantly surprised when he clears it up for me. My personal version in my head is nothing like what he means. Take that you negative voices, you were lying to me again!

    Hugs to all, heck hugs to me, too! 😉

  282.  #282Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 5:45 am

    LITS I am just signing on this morning and am really shocked to see you saying what you were called. I am going back to read but have to express my sorrow and grief to you but it just reinforces to me why I have always found it more rewarding to be friends with men and my commitment to understand them. It is really sad if that is the way we treat our own sisters.

  283.  #283Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 5:50 am

    RE 279 Mel reading that post seems to indicate to me that you must have read some stuff from CCarter. A lot of what you have said have summarized there what I have learnt from him.

  284.  #284life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 5:51 am

    oh yes, cockiness in men…all it is is a human version of the peacock preening its feathers in order to attract the women, not such a big deal, we can handle it 😉

  285.  #285Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 5:53 am

    RE 271 Loneplum not sure I can it was just some thoughts that came up in the moment. I will have to mull over it a bit.

  286.  #286Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 5:55 am

    RE 283 LITS Yayyyyy, I agree with you there. Can you imagine him also dropping that and surrendering to the woman who causes him to fall to his knees (in his heart)?

  287.  #287life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 5:55 am

    281. Thank you so much, FW. Your words are very comforting. Queenbee also said something, thank you to her as well, and all other well-meaners.

    It made me feel really bad that I wanted to leave.

    My true friends see me for who I am.

    thank you 🙂

  288.  #288Celtic Blue on April 8, 2011 at 5:56 am

    Yes Mel, for me it went this way…
    16 years marriage …

    He wanted what he didnt have
    He got what he wanted.
    He didnt know if he wanted what he then had,
    He didnt know what he now wanted.
    He just knew he didnt want what he had .


    No wonder I am triggered by the thought of wasting my one wild precious life waiting till ” he “knows what he wants.

  289.  #289Mel on April 8, 2011 at 5:57 am

    I have read a bit of CCarter. He advises women to always be the “cool” girl though, which I think is nearly impossible in difficult situations.

    I much prefer Rori’s tools- especially leaning back and feeling messages, because it makes me feel like I can have some of my power back.

    EMK might say that women should just be patient and wait, but then he really doesn’t know women very well.

  290.  #290Anna on April 8, 2011 at 6:16 am

    @215: SLV We were on the track to being married until some unforseen events came between us (the economy and finances mostly). At the time we didn’t have the right tools to work through it together, so we had to take some time apart to work through our own issues and gain growth. This last 8 months we have been doing exactly that and getting closer and closer together. However, I think there is still some fear in himself that maybe he isn’t good enough for me. I am not sure… but you are right, 6 years is a long time and I do want marriage, but I don’t want to give up on us. I know, I have alot to think about…

    THank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated 🙂

  291.  #291Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:16 am

    RE 129 I have to agree with you there Evan. I am sure you are not perfect in all ways or even close to perfect in some but your experiece, worldview and opinions are yours and I believe should be respected because I have never walked in your shoes. I have to admit that sometimes when I read what is written here I feel sympathy to men in general. I felt a little triggered by the communication comment myself but chalked it up to a slip of the lip kind of thing. I now see you comment as validating your own strength and acknowledging what might be a truth in your relationship. I cannot comment on that truth because you and her and the ones living it and if she accepts herself and your relationship with that hats off to you, no judgement here. I have at least once felt your style a little too harsh for me but I recognized that it is my choice to engage or not to. Peace to you and your family and thanks for at least trying to offer your insight here and my sympathies for the response. I really do understand wanting to be in a place where you are appreciated rather than tolerated. I do too.

  292.  #292life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:19 am

    FW. Yes, I also like men very much, maybe even better than women and also work hard to understand them. I seem to take on such difficult cases, though, and I don’t want to do that anymore. I feel like a basket case sometimes. From participating on this blog and practicing Rori and other tools, I realized the “nice” men i rejected over the years because they weren’t exciting enough or I felt trapped somehow, or they just didn’t get me. Like Rori, it is very important to me to be “gotten”, –you know what I mean. I am very sane, but at the same time, somewhat quirky. I attract fringe characters. I am always willing to admit mistakes and apologize and so much want to change my dysfunctional patterns. I will actually self-correct while I am communicating with someone, saying, out loud, no I shouldn’t have said it that way, and say it the right way. Like I might say, “you should….” and then stop and say, no wait, i would like to say, “I would very much like it if…” or “I don’t want to…” and give them the space to do for me. I may call it like I see it sometimes, but it is not intended to be used against a person.

    I’m going to make it a great day!!!

    I feel grateful to be alive and to have support!


  293.  #293Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:21 am

    Mel though I have been a bit put off by some of what EMK says I did not read his words as saying wait. He said “leave” several times. I get him to be saying do the work up front and early on before getting invested. I also wonder to myself why not look for the value in his words because many here have indicated hurt after getting invested. I agree 3 years is a long time but if that is the way it works with “some” guys that don’t work with me, I believe I have the power to say no. I like Tinque’s approach at looking at me. I also believe that everybody’s opinions are valid “in context”. I take what I like and leave the rest.

  294.  #294Emerson on April 8, 2011 at 6:21 am

    SIRENS……I need your feedback! I met a guy online that I am interested in and we have exchanged a few messages back and forth on the site. He just sent me a message saying, “maybe we should talk on the phone..”

    What do I do? Does that mean I he wants my phone number? Do I wait for him to ask for it? Do I reply and say yes I think so too and leave it at that?

    I know this may sound like a silly question, but I am determined to have a different approach to interactions now and I don’t want to do anything knee jerk and appear needy or too forward?

    Looking forward to your replies sirens and have a great day today, it’s Friday!! xoxo

  295.  #295Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:23 am

    RE 291 Believe it or not I do the same thing. I am comfortable with that because I have a man in my life who does that also. I accept it sometimes as an issue because of difference in language and people have to translate into English in their heads before speaking. I want to give people the space to be who they are or choose to be.

  296.  #296Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:25 am

    RE 293 How about “that would feel fun I like a man who steps up/or lead” and see if he asks for the number.

  297.  #297SummerBaby on April 8, 2011 at 6:25 am


    a belated happy birthday and thank you for your comments to me.

    I hope all is progressing well with your dad.


  298.  #298life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:26 am

    I do like CCarter, just don’t agree with every thing he says, just as I don’t take every utterance of EMK to be the gospel truth, either.
    CCarter was amazing on the soulmate summit, btw.

  299.  #299Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 6:31 am

    @236: Laughing Goddess says:
    “…Yesterday I did some spring cleaning while listening to the wish recording. I felt so peaceful yet productive doing that…”

    Good morning, LG… aren’t you the inspiration! I need to do some cleaning and space organizatio and I’m behind on my W.I.S.H. downloads but I’ll do that this morning.

    I hope you changed classes for instructors for your little doggy guy; that first person/experience you decribed was horrific and I was feeling kind of bad after reading it.

    Happy days!


  300.  #300Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:35 am

    RE 51 Boomer ((((hugs))))))) to you. I know I have felt in the past that you were not really open to hearing the truth but wanted to hear something that makes you “feel” good but guess what, you are not alone remember Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men as in “you can’t handle the truth”. Unfortunately, most of us can’t is my humble opinion. Both men and women. In my case I have tended to tell the truth in a brutal way because that is how I learnt it from both my father and my mother and now that I am paying attention I realize it triggers me and triggers other people hearing it. It is quite obvious to me now about my father because of the people in the hospital and my mother. She told him last night that every time she comes there she end up feeling like she shouldn’t because of what he says. I can only encourage you to take a close look of what is happening inside of you to create these feelings around what you are being told, it can only open your eyes wider and fast forward your healing.

    I have really enjoyed your humor and your comments on the blog about these men. I also believe you have a great high level of intution and awareness. I also believe you have to wade through the muck to get to the juiciest parts of yourself and I experience you as one of those people here who is moving forward the fastest to the absolutely best outcome. That is not just me trying to give you good words, it is the truth about my experience reading what you write. You have offered tremendous growth to me personally and I, in my opinion, your number one cheerleader. I say go ahead and make the mistakes if you have to and somewhere in the process you will catch yourself in mid-stream making the mistakes and with awareness will change your direction, even in midstream. I really believe you are great and I really love you and hearing your process. Believe me that does not happen inside of me with everyone around me or everyone on this blog.

  301.  #301Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:36 am

    RE 296 Thanks Summerbaby and yes.

    RE 297 LITS amen to that girl.

  302.  #302Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:37 am

    By the way Boomer have you ever explored why you consider yourself too sensitive? Carol Allen talks a bit about that.

  303.  #303Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:40 am

    RE 72 Alonka I have to tell you that I went to a 70th birthday party for a aunt recently and was shocked at the number of men over 40 there that were actually single. I personally had a choice of 3 to circular date with after that.

  304.  #304Renie on April 8, 2011 at 6:42 am

    Emerson – that’s a big hint that he wants to talk to you! I wouldn’t wait until he outright asked for your number. Just casually say “my number is xxx-xxxx if you’d like to chat” and then the ball is in his court to pick it up and call you.

  305.  #305life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:42 am


    You are so precious to us here

    Such a rich, luscious, vibrant spirit

    Your process and how you share it here is nothing short of amazing


  306.  #306life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:47 am

    294. FW
    “I want to give people the space to be who they are or choose to be.”

    This is very important to me, probably because there was a very small tight box I was expected to fit into in my FO. (family of origin).

    EFT is on my to-do list.


  307.  #307Renie on April 8, 2011 at 6:48 am

    I have a question about boy/girl energy and leaning back. My Engineer guy has been all boy energy…done the pursuing, the calling, the asking out, the leaning in to kiss me, hold me, etc. He is very affectionate, which I love! And we’ve had sex, so past that big hurdle. He has dropped several hints that he LIKES it when a woman is aggressive. His examples were kissing him unexpectedly in public, grabbing his hand, being more aggressive in bed and “telling him what to do”. All of this is boy energy stuff, but when a guy you like and are attracted has done all the “right” things and expresses that he likes or is turned on by that, do you do it? OR continue to lean back? Just curious. I know the answer is to do what feels best to me. Well, any of that would feel good to me! I would never be the agressor all the time, but to spice things up in bed, etc. Sure! What do you Sirens think?

  308.  #308Emerson on April 8, 2011 at 6:48 am

    Thansk Renie!

  309.  #309Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:49 am

    RE 160 Alonka I have to say I felt the way Daria commented on the “obedient” comment. I am at a loss as to why I would want to be obedient to any man who is not living with me and wonder if that could communicate to him that he has permission to “punish me if I am not obedient” and if he would get bored and go look for excitement from someone who would use her inner drama queen in conjunction with her Siren.
    160 also feels restrictive as to the point of being in a stiff jacket. Feel like saying “sorry about that” but truth be told that is how it comes across and it have felt that way in the past about your comments. I am also wondering about the type of household you might have grown up in with your father. Wondering if there is something there that might serve you if you give it up. It felts like it might stifle some creativity and spontanaiety. I might be wrong.

  310.  #310SummerBaby on April 8, 2011 at 6:50 am


    I have noticed a change in your style of communicating. I see growth and a softening in your tone. I like the change and congratulate your efforts.

    I am another who grew up with brutal honesty. My kids think I over-compensate for it with compassion and compliments. I know sometimes it comes off as insincere to some, but I tend to empathize on an incredibly deep level. I also feel like most of us never got really healthy doses of love and respect growing up and I’m on a mission to give it wherever I can.

    My biggest issues I think are learning to trust my intuition. I often find toxic men are the ones pushing my boundaries. I think with my history of abuse there must still be some part of me that calls out to them. The good part is that my guy is so respecting and caring and consistent that I’m actually starting to trust that he isn’t going to poof any minute! 😉

    I’ve had a rough couple of weeks facing my fear since we’ve just past a milestone where all have poofed in the past.

    here’s to continued growth!

    summerbaby steps 😉

  311.  #311Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:52 am

    RE 306 Renie I think putting it in context would be looking at what do you want from that relationship? What if you do it and later down the line you find that you gave him what he wants but he still leaves? How would you feel then?

  312.  #312life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:53 am

    299 FW
    “In my case I have tended to tell the truth in a brutal way because that is how I learnt it from both my father and my mother and now that I am paying attention I realize it triggers me and triggers other people hearing it.”

    YES!!! Exactly the same for me. I am flummoxed and dismayed at how ingrained of a habit it can be, and it takes a lot of awareness to catch myself sometimes and re-word it in a more palatable way, which is much better all around.

    I had a friend who said that he didn’t want to be known as the old man who goes around yelling at everybody. I wish I could do those animated smiley faces laughing like SLV. She’s so talented with technology. I admire that.


  313.  #313life_is_too_short_to... on April 8, 2011 at 6:56 am

    309. So very good to see you and hear what you have to say, Summerbaby. I can relate completely.

  314.  #314Renie on April 8, 2011 at 6:58 am

    FW – I don’t really know what I want or how I would feel. We’re not talking about some big huge thing he’s asking, not some sort of dealbreaker. Just that it turns him on to be told what to do sometimes. He asks me constantly what I want, how he can please me, etc. He’s very attentive to my needs. So is it “ok” to be attentive to his needs even though it’s a shift out of girl energy…just for that particular activity? That’s all I’m asking. It’s not like he’s asking me to participate in some sort of fetish or group sex or something. LOL..

  315.  #315Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 6:59 am

    RE 313 well I guess if it feels good to you go for it. You will eventually learn what you can create when you do with him.

  316.  #316Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Emerson…i would say…

    I feel good about talking on the phone…my number is xxx-xxxx 🙂

    i’ve done that plenty of times…that exact sentence

  317.  #317Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:01 am

    @243: Lorelei says:
    “…But it is evidence that Rori has mentioned being exclusive for a season….”

    That was me. “A season.” And not even evidential. I said it. I’d even give a guy two seasons. Maybe more. But I’m not a dating coach. I suspect if people believe that there’s a brand new idea (let’s call it a tool!) from someone else they’d be hip-hip-hooraying!!! and rolling in the aisles. If they read it’s me doing it, I’d be reviled and called a farm animal. That’s been my personal experience on this blog. Literally. *double sigh*

    The same or similar ideas in different costumes get different reception. 😯 What can I do but learn and grow, tweak, follow my own path, feel the shock, move on and LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL 😆 Human beings are funny. Or is that “human beans” as someone said?

    I hope your CD is going well for you and you bought a nice new bed! I’ve been helping a friend bed shop and compare. There are so many choices!


  318.  #318Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:01 am

    RE 309 Thank you Summerbaby.

  319.  #319Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:02 am

    Note: “My sweetie” says he is not tool; he is a good guy but others might have sweeties who are tools and that’s OK with him. 😀


  320.  #320Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 7:05 am

    Renie…if you feel good about it..give it a whirl once or twice and see how you feel afterwards

    with pipeliner man he was always the aggressor but there were little baby moments that i would surprise him and he loved it and it turned him on even more and then he took over again…

    i think it’s all an experiment…i would say go for it and just see how you feel…i’m not an initiator AT ALL but sometimes it’s fun to play around like that 🙂

  321.  #321Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 7:08 am

    LonePlum. I sincerely had hoped not to offend you, but I did. I apologize. I am so overwhelmed in my dating right now–too many men, too much talk of sex, too much pressure to be wonderful all the time, too much too much too much.

    I have never been in this position before–so many men vying for my attention–would seem like a dream, right? I’m just finding it overwhelming. I struggle with how to interact with one man–what am I doing juggling 12??? Part of me just wants to shut down to escape the sensory overload.

    All not your fault. You are right–you put significant energy into me twice. Thank you. I know you risked putting it out there because you thought I could handle it. And here I sit realizing I may not be as strong as I thought. Scary.

    I think the scariest part for me was the thought that I’m going into this date tonight, and he’s seeing me as a whore. That’s not what you meant, I know. But that word triggers me deeply for my own reasons. I will examine those reasons and try to move past them. I think, as you suggest, that I can salvage it by being elegant.

    I may still just lurk here for the time being and continue to learn. Does not mean I will not pipe in occasionally, but maybe I still need to listen more and talk less. A lifelong lesson for me.

  322.  #322Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:09 am

    RE 183 turquoise3 Yes some of us have a deep need to be right that overrides the need to be happy is what I have learnt from Dr. Paul and from Innerbonding.

    I have embraced Dr. Paul’s teaching that the mature way is to assume that when two people have different opinions they are only opinions and as such valid. Both people are right. The mature way to deal with that is to find a third way that would work for both and pursue that path. I now try to do that. I also believe that Rori’s third way of being in a relationship is somewhat a function of that.

  323.  #323Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 7:09 am

    301: Femininewoman

    Could be my mother telling me almost until her dying breath: “You’re too sensitive.”

  324.  #324Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:15 am

    RE 320 “think the scariest part for me was the thought that I’m going into this date tonight, and he’s seeing me as a whore”. Boomer emotions are contagious, what we say in our minds is somehow communicated in our emotions. This is awareness here and baby you can change that word to whatever you choose to. You can also change the scary to admit to him “I feel scared about this date”. Really you don’t know what he is seeing, that is your story about what he is seeing. He might be seeing the woman who could fulfil his lifelong dream of the hot relationship he wants over the rest of his lifetime. That is scary. Someone said we are scared of success and our own magnificence. That talk might have been your smokescreen over your truth. I really sense your profound healing.

  325.  #325Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 7:15 am

    299: Femininewoman

    Thank you. That means a lot to me. Real substantial inner change is painful. I want the change–I want to be my best–but I did not expect it to be so painful. I feel very fragile most of the time despite seeming incredibly strong to the rest of the world. I do not handle “straight talk” from people very well, you’re right. My inner “little girl” still longs for approval and for some care-giving (see comment above about my mother–good woman, strong woman, excellent mother–NOT a “soft and fuzzy” mommy). I crave approval even from from this virtual group of women I do not know (but feel I do/wish I did). More to explore…but thank you, FW. I appreciate your kindness and toughness. It all comes from a sincere place, as did LonePlum’s messages to me…and that is what should count.

  326.  #326Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:16 am

    @244: Daria says:
    “…Hey ! I have noticed a huge difference in how easy it is to take care of myself since saying these thank yous….”

    Hmm, good idea! I could use something like this too. You have a sweetie now, so I’ll borrow your… what are they? Inner thoughts? Are there more than one… to help with the self care and beautifying. Do they have names? I’m gonna steal one or two… 😆 Or maybe I need something a little different; I always do… 😛

    However, I need some big guns! You are a very pretty young lady… and I need some major overhaul even with Nanceen helping.

    Where is Nanceen??? I hope I didn’t frighten her off with the immensity of my required corporeal renovation. It’s a huge project! I might need different “spirit help.” I’ll “put it out there” and see what comes back.

    Thanks for the idea nudge. Perhaps “inner thoughts” is enough.


  327.  #327Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 7:18 am

    Boomer…i can relate to the overwhelmed feeling of too many men and it seemed to take away from me…i felt best when i had 2 or 3 in the mix and then it felt fun more often than not…it still felt a little draining at times but that’s because i was doing a long distance relationship which is draining in itself and i needed to be CDing to keep from going crazy over one man…

    also there have been periods of time that even though i knew i was welcome on the blog i felt uncomfortable posting because i was feeling “sensitive” to remarks…like just recently when i went exclusive with hotpilot and i needed to feel it out myself without triggers that i’m doing it wrong and once i feel grounded i start posting again because i really do enjoy this blog for the most part…i dont like getting involved in the debate stuff..just not my style…anyway hope thats not TMI…just wanted to share my may not be totally relevant lol

  328.  #328Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:18 am

    RE 322 Yea I know about that. It could be true and Carol Allen suggests that it is in your DNA, your skin might even be thinner that many and so you are very aware of your emotions. She says you will need a man who will be sensitive to that and not poopoo on your emotions. She says people are told that from childhood and it is sad. My daughter is a pisces and she seems to be that way even though people have told me that too over and over again. After reading Carol Allen’s newsletter about it I have tried to be more understanding of my daughter and support her even when teachers complain about her level of sensitivity. I would never try to change that about her or encourage her in judging herself. You are a cool girl Boomer in opening up yourself like this to the rest of us.

  329.  #329Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:23 am

    @245: Laughing Goddess says:
    “…I was so happy to be getting it cut. I thought that 1st quarter of the moon was a good time but this is saying something different….”

    My mother and grandmother trimmed hair on the new moon. I’d planned to give myself a little trim on Sunday, April 3 and I didn’t… 😳 I’m inclined to say, don’t worry about it too much.

    If I’d feel better with a haircut, I’d have the haircut. I could always catch up on the other recommended dates later; I don’t think my hair would all fall out….although I do have a lot less of it now… that hormonal thing.


  330.  #330Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:24 am

    RE 324 Boomer your comment about your mother really touched a deep place in my heart, jerked it a bit and now I am teary eyed. It is a sad truth that the mother/daughter relationship is a challenge and the most rocky for most of us. It is unfortunate but many of us bury real strangers because we are afraid of intimacy because we never really shared it as children. I looked at my father in the hospital the other and admitted to myself that I really love but as he gets stronger each day I find myself falling back into the fear that has kept me in my comfort zone of not expressing to him because I am not used to it. I have more conflict with my mother than is healthy to mention here. I hope you find healing Boomer and hope that some of Boomer’s words are viewed as advice from some parts of your mother your missed out on.

  331.  #331Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 7:26 am

    Everyone here is so awesome. ALL of you. Your support is…amazing.

    I will go into my date tonight with MrOhio knowing I am the yummy pie. I am a rock star. I am the air he breathes. I am good and wonderful and sincere and perfect just the way I am. If the talk veers toward sex, I will allow myself to feel about it however I feel about it in the moment and decide in that moment how to handle it. I will just enjoy the few hours of practice–and be surprised.

    I just spent $400 on a killer KitchenAid standmixer I have been wanting for ten years. I think I should have bought Modern Siren instead.

    I’ll let you all know how tonight goes. I really have to get back to work now–I wonder if my company tracks that I’m here and is wondering, “Huh???”

  332.  #332Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 7:29 am

    yay! Boomer…you sound really open and warm authentic and vulnerable in that last post and it feels really good to read…i feel excited for your date tonight and if you go with that vibe…WOW!!! just sayin 😉

  333.  #333LD on April 8, 2011 at 7:39 am

    OH…. WOW……

    My date with HortArmyGuy went so well last night. I felt respected, heard, honored. Like the most special woman on the planet.

    He was kind, attentive, romantic and chivalrous. At one point we ran into some friends of mine and after ten minutes you would’ve thought he’d been dating me and known my friends for ten years. He gushed about how amazing I was to my friends. He talked about my TALENTS and INTELLIGENCE and not about my looks. He was complimentary to my female friends. He even exchanged numbers with one of my guy friends and they made plans to go play golf together!

    At another point we were walking outside and a scary looking man came up and asked us for money. I felt really nervous even though the man wasn’t threatening us with a weapon or anything. When he saw my nervousness, he hugged me and said “darling, when I’m around you will never have to worry about anything. I will always protect you and make you feel safe.”

    Another AMAZING goodnight kiss (ok, more than one lol) and there’s no doubt there’s chemistry, but he looked at me with something more than just lust in his eyes. Like he was looking deeper than just the physical.

    I have CDed over 100 men in the past 2 1/2 years and have had a couple of horrible dates, plenty of mediocre dates, quite a few dates with super nice guys but with either no chemistry, no compatibility or the timing was off on what each of us wanted. I’ve also had a handful of really good dates and a few “dreamy” dates. This one touched me on an emotional level for some reason. Something he did or said somewhere along the way reminded me of a time a very long time ago when I felt accepted and loved. I’m not saying HE feels this way about me, but that he definitely triggered some emotions that have been buried for quite awhile.

    Because when I got home, I broke down and CRIED my eyes out. I felt this flood of emotions come over me: elation, fear, sadness, joy. It was almost surreal and I have no explanation for it. All I know is that when I was done crying I felt a sense of peace.

    I don’t know what will happen with HotArmyGuy. I am not going to attach any expectation of outcome with him. But I’m going to be open to being surprised. But I do know without a doubt that he was sent to heal something in me. I can’t explain what happened last night any other way…

  334.  #334LD on April 8, 2011 at 7:45 am


    12 CDs may be a bit much. I’ve never had that many at one time, but I’ve had 6 or 7 and felt overwhelmed. I’ve either taken breaks or cut come loose or reduced a couple to quick lunch or coffee dates. Make sure you take a day or a few hours just for yourself too to recharge. Good luck tonight!

  335.  #335Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:45 am

    @277: Mercedes says:
    “…No, SLV, I haven’t read much of what he’s written and now, I don’t intend to. I’m sure the traffic on his blog went up substantially after this…which was probably the intent…”

    Yes, I think so. This is a business, big business, no surprise there. I’m only here for my health…that does’t mean everyone is. 😀


  336.  #336Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 7:48 am

    LD….i LOVE that!!! it sounds amazing…he sounds amazing…yep he is definitely my favorite one for you 😉
    i absolutely love it when the man i’m “dating” connects with my friends right away…that is a really special thing for me…yay!!! go LD!!

  337.  #337Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Loneplum I am wondering if my comments on the “test” was my putting it through my filter of agreement with Dr. Paul who encourages women to test men. As in reject them to see if they still remain standing next to us after the rejection.

    Lauren Frances and Renee Piane also suggests that they are amazed that women just give away their exclusivity and precious attention to men easily. One said that we spend more time choosing a pair of jeans than we spend checking out a man whether he is right for us or not. I am wondering if the sexual talk could maybe unconsciously get the guy to bring up some of his past that might show us whether he is prone to cheating or not if he does not get what he wants?

    There is one guy who told me his wife eventually put their baby between them and he was not getting the sex he needed. She went as far as suggesting to him to go outside to get it. I have a family member who did that also. When the guys went and did it the wives reacted with hurt feelings and further pushed/pulled on their husbands. The guy who sharedhis experience with me told me his wife was upset after he went out a slept with another woman, he did not tell me whether he said it to her or not. One thing I know is that he says passionately that she was very negative. When he said that I could feel his frustration and my sense was that he needed appreciation and admiration from her but it seems he never got it. I will not judge him because I remember once he almost killed himself in a car accident thinking about her and the problems they had. When they separated he begged her for reconciliation and had to deal with the humiliation of seeing another man with her. That was his story don’t know what hers was but it was obvious to me that he loved her and craved the opportunity to make her happy.

  338.  #338Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 7:51 am

    @283: life_is_too_short_to… says:
    “…oh yes, cockiness in men…all it is is a human version of the peacock preening its feathers in order to attract the women, not such a big deal, we can handle it…”

    It works very, very well. Very well indeed.

  339.  #339Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:01 am

    As Lauren Frances puts it the eyes on the peacocks feather is kind of like something to put them in a coma so that he can have his way with her. The bigger the eyes the better the pick of females he has. She says the men and birds have similar mating rituals. The short loop migrations, the withdrawal and come close patterns. She says there are birds who have several mates but they have to make sure the nests are far and wide otherwise wife number 1 will hunt down the others and eat their eggs. Dating, Mating and Manhandling: the Ornothological Guide

  340.  #340Ronnie Ann Ryan - The Dating Coach on April 8, 2011 at 8:02 am

    I think age can make a difference here. Rori, I have to disagree with you about not asking a man about the relationship. Once you hit 40, if you are single and want to get married, waiting around or circular dating are not efficient strategies.

    After 7 months of dating my husband when I was 40, I asked him where we were going. Of course he hated that question. I did exactly what Evan said which was the hardest decision of my life. I told him I had to break up with him because I want to be with a man who wants to get married. And if he isn’t sure where the relationship is going or if we have a future together, that’s his choice.

    We were apart for two weeks and he approached me several times to get back together. And we did, once he said he did see a future with me. After that, in my own mind, I gave him 3 months more to get used to the idea of getting engaged. I didn’t tell him of this – it was my limit for time invested which I kept to myself.

    He did get used to the idea during those three months which and we’ve been married for loving 11 years.

    Perhaps for younger women in their 20’s, this wouldn’t be a good scenairo. For women in their 40’s+ who work with me as their dating coach, this is the strategy I recommend. Why bother dating other men casually if your heart is stuck on one guy? Get clear about where you are going, and if it’s not where you want, move on to find the love you want and deserve.

  341.  #341Luzydel on April 8, 2011 at 8:02 am

    Today I feel like The Little Prince…lost in the dessert…I’m not scared, I’m not looking for anything; I’m just experiencing.

    “What makes the dessert beautiful? …is that somewhere it hides a well.”

    Have a nice day sirens 🙂

  342.  #342Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:07 am

    LD I sense that this “Because when I got home, I broke down and CRIED my eyes out. I felt this flood of emotions come over me: elation, fear, sadness, joy. It was almost surreal and I have no explanation for it. All I know is that when I was done crying I felt a sense of peace” was your fear of success, your fear of initmacy and your fear of creating something great might have overwhelmed you.

    I might be wrong about this but your post brought back this memory for me and I hope it helps you process those feelings.

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

  343.  #343Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 8:07 am

    @311: life_is_too_short_to… says:
    “…I wish I could do those animated smiley faces…”

    It’s no big deal. I see you have one on your post but for anyone who wants to also use some animated ones, here are a few …

    : lol : without spaces = 😆
    : oops : without spaces = 😳
    and if things are really bad….
    : cry : without spaces = 😥

  344.  #344Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Boomer I also believe those words of Marianne Williamson somehow applies to you also.

  345.  #345LD on April 8, 2011 at 8:17 am


    Thanks for that. Really resonated with me….

  346.  #346Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 8:23 am


    #302: Yes for that crowd of single men – please can you let us know what happens between you and them in the next few weeks? I was saying that I’ve been meeting 2-3 new guys per week lately and I’m still single. I’m not saying it’s impossible and I hope it does happen one day, but believe that NY has a ‘single’ mindset on average.

  347.  #347Daria on April 8, 2011 at 8:24 am

    Slv – the change I made was writing the Thank Yous to boy Daria on here.

    That’s it.

    Before this I was having a hard time (pretty as I am). Even showering and brushing my teeth. I was brushing once every three days, and showering once a week or once every three weeks.

    Now I’m back to a regular schedule and even Bathing which is what I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. Abd my toes are done.

  348.  #348Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Alonka I believe we create in the Universe what we believe. Our thoughts create things and it might be more productive for you to examine your belief system around that.

  349.  #349Daria on April 8, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Alonka – and you’ll be single for awhile, until you’re married.

  350.  #350Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 8:32 am

    340: Femininewoman

    I thought that was familiar – it was very “Course in Miracles.” So, yeah…Marianne Williamson.

    (You might not guess that I am quite the student of metaphysical work as well–I just have not been able to apply it to love/men. Some mental/emotional block I have. Have to erase the old tired tapes and break old patterns. I’ll get there.)

  351.  #351Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:32 am

    If you’ve found yourself in a relationship where this was going on for you, there’s something you should know…

    The reality is, men have 1 of 3 things going on if they’re with you and NOT showing you the love and affection you want-

    Situation #1: He’s not opening up because he’s feeling emotionally withdrawn to begin with (and it’s up to him to get out of it)

    Situation #2: He’s not opening up and sharing his affection because you keep having conflicts and “disconnects” in your communication

    Situation #3: He’s not opening up and sharing his affection because he doesn’t know how

    Which has it been in your relationship?

    Knowing which situation you were in can make you feel better about it for a minute, but here’s where it gets interesting…

    When you know how, there’s a way to address ALL 3 of these situations in a way that will feel easy and effortless.

    And more importantly, there’s a way to start getting the response you want from your guy, without being the one to do all “the work.”

    I mean, if you choose to share yourself with a man and love him, you should get back the affection and attention that a loving partner should give in the first place.

    But… (and here’s the tough part)

    There’s a sad truth for lots of women in relationships these days.

    The truth is… some women NEVER end up having the kind of relationship with a man where they are truly free to share their feelings.

    No matter how loving they are, and no matter how much of themselves they give.

    Are you done with being one of those women?


    Then here’s the thing…

    Did you know that the moments where you have conflict in your relationship, and where you aren’t sure how to say what you’re feeling, are actually opportunities for you to grow CLOSER to the man in your life?

    And for you to grow individually, too.

    Of course, if you don’t have the right level of communication in these moments…

    And you don’t know how to handle them with a man…

    Then these moments will be what breaks your relationship apart.

    You probably worried that if you said the wrong thing it would only make things worse with him.

    I get it.

    Men are supposed to be grounded, purposeful and stand tall in the face of challenge.

    But then why do men so often pull away and act scared or uncertain when it matters most?

    From CCarter

  352.  #352Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 8:38 am


    For a longest time I was the one who laughed about it and didn’t think it was part of my world. Hard to fight the facts.. but I’m not too concerned about it. Didn’t mean to start a discussion on this topic, plus again – either it’s something that each particular 40+y.o never married bachelor decides for himself or not.

  353.  #353Daria on April 8, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Lercomarie – yes Please add other men

    Please reread Roris post and don’t assume exclusivity.
    There’s nothing to be afraid of… This is all practice.

  354.  #354Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 8:43 am


    For the ‘obedient’ comment or ‘You first’ mindset I’m not sure how to change that. Re: spontaneity I’m very spontaneous in terms of expressing my love/friendship for someone and not at all in terms of getting up and leave. I did leave in the past, but it required all my strength and logic to do that. I’m loyal to a relationship, even a brief one say with a guy cleaning the street in front of my building till the very last drop 😉

  355.  #355Queenbee on April 8, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Hey Sirens,

    Quick one –

    There was a text error and I did not receive an invitation from my man and so did not reply. Then things went silent. When he contacted me on IM we cleared things. He asked me out but I had already filled my schedule and told him.

    He’s then been texting me for a couple days. I felt sick and tired of texting. I texted him that it would feel good to talk and I was feeling tired of texting. He texts back that “It’s always nice talking to me and I can always call him”. I felt bad reading that and we had not seen each other for a week.

    So I texted him “I don’t feel comfortable calling, emailing, texting etc men. I don’t want to pursue a man. It feels icky. Take care in ‘town’. Bye.”

    He’s been silent ever since. I feel like I’m pushing him away with all the stuff I’m not willing to do. I feel bad right now. I miss my man and want to see him, but I’m not sure what he’s thinking/ feeling and we are at the 3 month threshold. I don’t want to lean forward. Yet I feel I’m too difficult…. I don’t want to push him away coz I’m still learning all this siren stuff and perhaps getting some of my feeling messages wrong or untimely?

    What do you think Sirens? Can I send him a feeling message? Here’s what I have so far –

    “I feel like I’m pushing you away and I don’t want that. I feel sad when we have no contact. I feel really dumb texting you but I don’t want you to think I don’t care. What do you think?

    Thank you!


  356.  #356Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 8:51 am

    This from Tinque

    My mind raced with, “I’m not sexy enough. My boobs aren’t big enough. I’m not young enough. I’m not firm enough. I don’t have big enough orgasms. I’m too difficult. I’m too shy. Am I inhibited? Myabe I’m not intelligent enough. What’s wrng with ME!!!

    I panicked. And I sank down SO, SO deep down
    into a pit of feeling essentially useless.

    If you hear nothing else here, hear this:


    They ALWAYS lie, but it is possible to quiet them.

    You can come to know and own that you are, have
    always been, and will always be enough, perfect
    just as you are.

    So – let’s get started feeling GOOD!


    A good place to start is with little things.

    1. Make a list of anything you like about yourself even if only a tiny bit, your physical attributes, your talents, your qualities as a human, anything at all that you can think of.

    2. Look at this list EVERY day, more than once
    if necessary.

    Tape it to your bathroom mirror or any other place where you will see it often, your diary maybe or your computer screen.

    KEEP telling yourself that EVERYTHING you wrote is TRUE no matter how much that other lying part of you protests. The more you say it, the more you will believe it.

    Feeling really, really good about yourself is something you have an absolute, total RIGHT to feel! And our whole lives, we women have beentaught just the opposite. We’re taught to only respect what we can “accomplish,” instead of knowing the truth – that
    we are incredible and fabulous exactly as we are –
    even with everything WE think are flaws and faults, and that what men love most in us ARE those things we consider flaws and faults!

    3. Every time you pass a mirror, stop and give yourself a big smile. Blow yourself a kiss, and mean it. Focus only on the parts you do like if only a little.
    Ignore the rest, for truthfully others do not see you in bits and pieces.

    Let me repeat this, for it’s crucial.


    What people see is you as a whole package, mind, body, and spirit included.

    Tell yourself that you are beautiful, that you love yourself. Admire the gorgeous image which is you.

    You will come to believe yourself about this

    4. Make a list of things that you want from
    your life, for right now, for the future, anything
    that comes to mind.

    Write them as choices as if they already are a
    reality and in feeling terms.

    For example – I choose to be well informed, and
    I love to talk about what I’ve learned. I choose
    to feel sexy and I love feeling sexy.

    I choose to feel unruffled within myself when
    my lover or whomever ignores me, and I love
    feeling like this. I choose to keep my heart open
    even when she wants to close up, and I love
    feeling open and vulnerable, and so on. If you can
    imagine it, you can create it.

    5. DO NOT STUFF your feelings. This is crucial.
    Feel whatever is it you feel, even if you perceive
    it as a bad feeling feeling. If you feel icky,
    sad, anxious, distressed, allow these feelings.
    Sink as deeply into them as you can. Really,
    really feel them, all the angles, all the curves.

    Repressing or suppressing any feeling, bad
    feeling feelings and good feeling feelings alike,
    will only add to your feelings of not being enough
    and thus perpetuate your pain. The only way to
    transform bad feeling feelings is to feel them.
    Then and only then can they become something else.
    Observe them; feel them completely, and let them
    go. Another feeling will arise, and eventually
    better feeling feelings will become prevalent. So
    allow ALL feelings to flow through you.

    6. Push any accompanying lying thoughts away as
    much as you can. Every time those negative thoughts pop up, gently push them aside, over and over again, every five minutes if necessary.

    7. Now go forth and do whatever feels good to
    you. Do not worry about “your responsibility” to
    others or if “they” would disapprove. As long as
    you’re not physically harming anyone else, if it
    feels good then it’s good for you. Allow yourself
    to have fun; immerse yourself in it; revel in
    feeling really, really good.

    If you ruffle a few feathers, so be it. It will feel so good being true to yourself rather than trying to please others all the time, and happily you will find that they will respect you more, and they may very well feel more comfortable with you, safer, and thus enjoy you even more for being you,


    8. Whenever the lying voices invade your mind
    again, do whatever it takes to make them stop.
    Ignore them, turn your back on them, yell at them,
    shush them, put your hand over their mouths, or
    put them in a corner by themselves. In time they
    will give up or at least fade to an almost
    indistinguishable whisper.

  357.  #357Daria on April 8, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Thank you Daria for doing breathing exercises!

  358.  #358Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Queenbee I find myself asking “why did you feel bad”. He did not want to talk, he is obviously comfortable texting. What he is saying in my mind is if you want to talk pick up the phone, I want to text. I can understand why he would feel that you are pushing him away. I can understand why you would be feeling bad and I agree that maybe you should call him, just with the caveat that it might push him away. I would call though if I was confident with my vibe and that it would communicate a positive message to him. I would not send the text because that is engaging him in what he wants to do so I would engage him in what I want to do to see if it inspires change in him. I would also not talk about feeling dumb because that is your negative voice talking to you, that is not a feeling, I think. He might be ridiculing you yes but I can see where that might make sense to him because you want to talk yet you are texting. I have also come to accept that people wil not always be willing to give us what we want. In this context though I would do something to re-inspire the chase in the way I want because you are already cdating. The problem I sense her is with your expectations.

  359.  #359Mel on April 8, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Re: 349 “Men are supposed to be grounded, purposeful and stand tall in the face of challenge.
    But then why do men so often pull away and act scared or uncertain when it matters most?”

    Yes! Tell me Why!!! 🙂

  360.  #360Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Truth without compassion is not truth.

  361.  #361Meemee on April 8, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I finally cleaned my house. Spread new bed sheets and hung new curtains.
    I took a long nice bath and applied my new body cream.
    I feel good. It smells good.

  362.  #362Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:13 am

    If we believe something inside, like that if we do something we will be attacked… Then we will experience that as ‘evidence’. It’s on our energy.

    Example – when I was called a slut by a cd and Rori asked me… Where are you calling yourself a slut.

  363.  #363AmazingME on April 8, 2011 at 9:13 am

    NotSure Re:@78…I decided to put me first for once, it hurt, but with a lot of self realization I knew I had to decide what I wanted and know I deserve it. So baby steps as all the sirns say here. I love him and will never understasnd the connection or what it was It was a gut instinct. Having the power to walk away and not take crumbs from any man is hard when there is love but not so bad when you learn to love your self more. My advice dig into your heart and what you want and don’t want. Date around if you want or don’t….the beauty is it is about you make you happy first. This is how I have been getting through is worrying about me and my life. I really believe do not blame him or you just walk and if he is the one he will be if not you know your still on an path of what you have wanted the entire time and noone gets hurt or doesn’t hurt as much. May not make sense sorry to ramble but these are things i do and has really helped me being here…Hope this helps….xoxo

  364.  #364Kyla on April 8, 2011 at 9:15 am

    the way i feel about this circular dating ‘argument’ is that
    – Evan is telling us, in his opinion, that if we are in an exclusive relationship and are ready to get married to this man but he hasn’t decided if we are ‘The One’ yet we should respect his time schedule and respect his feelings more than we respect our own and wait for an indefinite period of time for the man to either marry us or leave us.

    – Rori is telling us to respect our feelings AND his feelings, communicate how we feel, appreciate that he needs more time, allow him to keep his own timeline (continue to date him and/or remain sexually exclusive) AND at the same time respect our own timeline and feelings and be open to the possibility that this man may not be ‘The One’ for us after all and be open to other men who may be willing to give us exactly what we need.

    I feel for any relationship to work both the man and the woman needs to feel happy, comfortable and have their needs met. If one person is not happy or comfortable with the progression or getting their needs met this will put emotional distance between the couple no matter how good the unhappy person is at ‘playing cool’.

    So if the woman knows she could be happy with this man forever and he’s not sure yet and she is happy and comfortable to allow him more time then there’s no problem and she could happily follow Evan’s advice. If the woman feels she has given it enough time and she is no longer happy and comfortable hanging around for his decision but doesn’t want to pressure a decision out of him or break up then she should start being open to other possibilities and CD. The undecided man may then decide to leave or he may decide to step up. Either way both the man and the woman have respected their own feelings, timeline and desires.

    I feel that Evan’s suggestion of ‘playing it cool’ is probably similar to Rori’s ‘leaning back’ tool and that he’s just using a different phrase and not actually suggesting you pretend to feel happy if you are not 🙂

    I feel excited my R is on his way to collect me for our date and I feel and look amazing! lol

  365.  #365Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Boomer – this ‘i won’t talk on the blog’. Seems to me a pattern of self punishment that is running. Ie I feel ashamed, so now I won’t talk, I am not worthy

    Also could be outside directed as in

    I feel ashamed, so now I won’t talk, as a resistance. Feeling resentful. This is a pattern I often run.

    It seems to me you have the first one but it could be both.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Mel note he says “supposed to be”. Also he is a proponet of “men don’t make sense” and men tend to shut down when faced with strong emotions that they don’t understand. In the real world I have experienced when they withdraw and I understand that they are human. So though they are supposed to be all that they have weaknesses just like us. Ideally strong men cry too but they don’t want us to see them maybe bcus they don’t want to be judged and they want to be strong for us.

  367.  #367Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 9:18 am

    “… I don’t have big enough orgasms…”

    I have little orgasms. I like them. They’re cute and just right for me (and my sweetie…)

    They might be little but I have a lot of them. 😀


  368.  #368Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 9:18 am


  369.  #369Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

    I swear up and down that the haircut days Do matter, much much more than I thought they would.

    I would Not cut my hair on the days not to. The difference is Amazing and extreme.

    If you try it, you’ll see yourself.

    Try just shaving on the hair removal days vs not.

    The difference for the haircut is shocking.

  370.  #370Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

    RE 358 Trying to wrap my head around that. That concept takes some maturity and I am not sure my daughter for instance is at a place where she would understand how to apply that. I am wondering then if what you are saying is that she would be lacking in truth. If so it has taken me my entire life to get to that place.

    In the context of EMK I believe he expressed his truth in the best way “he knew how” and look what it got him here. In some cases I am no sure I am sensing compassion.

  371.  #371Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Haircut on lengthening days grows three times as fast.

  372.  #372LD on April 8, 2011 at 9:25 am


    I LOVE your explanatiom of the differences between EMK and Rori on CDing. Thank you for this!!!

  373.  #373AmazingME on April 8, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Celtic Blue @103…so true, very inspiring thanks for sharing, that is how a woman should work!!!

  374.  #374Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:27 am

    I use this as a super power. I feel … Consternation and disappointment that others wouldn’t… But I can live with that.

    I don’t want them to miss out.., but I can refocus on me.

    This is a familiar pattern for me.

    I feel uncomfortable when my advice is not taken, or my info seems unwanted.

    I am refocusing to tryst that my sharing info has a beneficial effect Even if at first it seems not to.

  375.  #375mali on April 8, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Boomer Re:322
    I was triggered when I read this. I’ve always been quite sensitive myself.
    You are not “too” anything, if she feels this, then she has the right to have her own opinion, but you are who you are. Do not change that, as it makes you who you are. And you are a beautiful, incredible, wonderful Siren. Who men see, and are mesmerised! 😉
    (I’m not a regular poster on this blog, bu I do read a lot of the posts and comments :))

  376.  #376Meemee on April 8, 2011 at 9:31 am

    I have a doubt.
    Today a very old college mate of mine sent me a friend’s request in FB. I accepted and he came for a chat. We had a nice chat. We asked each other what and how we are doing and the general stuff.
    Then he started talking to me about how he used to be a great fan of mine in the college days. He even quoted a poem i had written and was published in some literary magazine. I had completelty forgotten about that. But he quoted it word by word.
    I told him i am pleasantly surprised that people still remember me for the things i wrote.

    He went on telling me how much he wanted to talk to me during the college days and was always shy and afraid to come and talk to me. So he used to collect my published my writing and read them.
    We had a good laugh over that.
    I really didnt know how to respond.
    I asked him about his job and he gave me an interesting account of the stuff he does. I also told him about my work and interests and we had a very long chat.
    It was a very pleasant conversation. I enjoyed the respect and the dignity with which he treated me.
    Before going off he said he still wants to talk to me and keep this conversation going. So he said he will ping me next time he comes online.
    Then all of a sudden he told me that he is married to one of our old classmates whom i vaguely remember.
    I said I am happy to know that and wished him luck.

    My doubt is, is it okay to talk to a married man if that makes me feel better?
    I was not a friend of him. I remember him well. He remembers every single conversation we had at college.

    The conversation was pleasant and long.
    But is it really okay to talk that long to a married man only because he made me feel better?
    Is there anything wrong in it.

    I am not talking about a date or a romance or anything related to that. I just read some of the old posts of RR and read about how to be open and enjoy the world and the attention men give you. Where does a chat with a married man figure in such a scheme?

    May be i am asking a very stupid question. But I feel curious to know.


  377.  #377Daria on April 8, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Queenbee – ack!

    When you started directing him.. ‘take care in town. Bye’

    You Literally pushed him away! You told him bye!

    What we want to say is:

    That feels bad. I don’t want to be the one calling the man.

    THeN LET HIM Respond!!!

    As scary as it may be!!!

    This is actually just a Sharing of feelings.. And from here we can get closer.

  378.  #378Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Meemee I do not date but I talk with married men. They are a part of the world around me. He might have thrown that in to make sure you understand where he is and that he is not leading you on in any way, just in case you get things in your head. My opinion is that guys have experience certain things from women in the past, plus they all think of themselves as good guys. The operate based on their experiences. I would not concern myself with his thoughts if I were you.

  379.  #379mali on April 8, 2011 at 9:41 am


    Personally, I would say that if it feels good to you, then go for it! Isn’t one of the main reasons for CD-ing for us to feel better, and to facilitate inner healing?

    There’s no reason to box it up, or label what this is- whether it’s an actual friendship or not; simply if it feels good, then great 🙂 Though he’s married, I do feel that it’s his responsibility in telling his other half that he’s in contact with you- if she even had any concerns about it.

  380.  #380Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Meemee I also feel it is a message from the Universe that you are truly loved and special despite your recent experiences. The change in your focus and thinking is bringing the experiences into life what you desire. As you move through you will create more positive experiences with men who work to make you feel good about yourself because you are feeling good about yourself.

  381.  #381Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:52 am

    More on the cat/dog analogy by VFeingold Clarke

    Dogs are people-pleasers and you might not think it’s such a bad thing to want to please people — especially a man.

    But it’s important to know why you are trying so hard to please him. Is it because you’re afraid that if you speak up for yourself he won’t like you or he will leave you?

    I know what that’s like. The last thing I wanted to create in my relationships was conflict. Why? Because I felt that if I displeased a man in anyway he would think I was too much trouble and he wouldn’t love me.

    This behavior is not helpful in a relationship. A man can’t get to know the real you and eventually will get tired of always getting his way. More importantly, because you are being dog-like and not honoring who you really are, you’ll never feel comfortable or secure in the relationship.

    When you are trying to please, you are putting a man’s happiness ahead of your own. You are telling yourself over and over that how he feels is more important than how you feel.

    When you do this you chip away at your confidence and self-esteem. Every time you don’t honor yourself, you are telling yourself that your feelings don’t count.

    Years ago I was dating a man who was always an hour or more late picking me up. It took me two months to get up the courage to ask him to be on time. He refused to change and I broke up with him. Surprisingly I felt an unexpected sense of relief. I felt free, I had finally acknowledged what I needed and it felt wonderful.

    There is something you can do right now to begin to train your inner dog so it will stop begging to be liked. Pick one simple thing that you have let slide that you want to express. Start small. You can suggest going to a restaurant you prefer or to a movie that you’d rather see. You can change the time you get together to a time that works better for you.

    At first you will feel uncomfortable, but the more uncomfortable you feel the greater the reward. Give it a try. Pick one thing you need and follow through by asking for it. I’d love to hear how it works out so write and let me know.

    If you need more help Email me and take advantage of my no charge phone consultation. In the meantime don’t forget things can change in an instant, so don’t lose hope!

  382.  #382Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Mercedes and Evan,

    RE: #277 – Mercedes said, “I know two women who used circular dating and are now with the man they are going to spend the rest of their lives with: Rori and Me.”

    There are far more than that. Many, many women CD and then slide off the blog…

  383.  #383Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Para 4 in 379 above speaks to “obedience” in my mind.

  384.  #384Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 9:56 am


    RE: #293 – You asked, “What do I do? Does that mean I he wants my phone number? Do I wait for him to ask for it? Do I reply and say yes I think so too and leave it at that?”

    I would say, “It would feel good to talk with you! My number is XXX-XXX-XXXX.”

  385.  #385Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 10:03 am


    RE: #354 – FW quoted you. Beautiful!

  386.  #386Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 10:05 am


    I have been taking Mucinex for 3 days and Mullein since yesterday morning. This morning I woke up with no coughing! For the first time in 8 weeks! I’m not saying it’s completely gone, but it’s definitely on the way out!

  387.  #387Daria on April 8, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Brenda – yay! Mullein is a no fail for me. Feel curious to hear that the drops worked for you. Is it am extract in alcohol?

  388.  #388Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Daria: I really do appreciate you posting the calendar and I don’t doubt for a moment that it is accurate.

    I have a lot of factors going on with my hair right now that I am trying to weigh.

    I would love to wait until the two lengthening days this month but I will be on and airplane and travelling those days.

    Then I considered waiting until the strengthening or thickening days but they are still two weeks away.

    I have been living with a really bad haircut for two months and i promised myself I would get it fixed up.

    Also I made an appt with a hairdresser who is a good friend of mine and it important for me to respect commitments that I make.

    I guess I just want to let you know that it’s not that I don’t appreciate you posting but there are a lot of factors that are involved for me.

    It’s sort of like how you said about astrology that you believe the planets can align for you…I might choose to work my own magic on this and trust that my hair will be okay. I’m going to call my friend soon and see if she is willing to reschedule. If not, well….I haven’t made a decision yet.

    What do you think about cutting on a neutral day? That might be the best I can do at this point. Now that I have the calendar, I can schedule aroud it in the future. I would definitely like to try it out.

    Have you tried the MM products? I love the ingredients!

  389.  #389Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 10:27 am

    363 Daria – well here I am talking so…it is not to punish anyone. Maybe myself a little. But more to just impose some quiet on myself. Read. Learn. Quit reacting with a knee-jerk. LEARN.

  390.  #390Daria on April 8, 2011 at 10:27 am

    I’m feeling energetic and a bit angry.

    I love my anger… And that feels like…

    Smiling. I love my smile… And that feels like… Dropping to limp

    I love my dropping to limp

    And ray feels like… Pressure in head and over nose

    I love my pressure in head and over nose…

    And that feels like


    I love my tingles. And that feels like… Frown… I love my frown… And that feels like… Yawn

    I love my yawn… And that feels like… Fear… I love my fear… And that feels like… Yawn

    I love my yawn… And that feels like… Closing eyes.. I love my eyes closing… And that feels like… Tightness in my right butt. I love the tightness in my right butt..,

    And that feels like… Tingling in my left ear… I love the tingling in my left ear… And that feels like… Tingling on my head. I love the tingling on my head… And that feels like… Tingling on my foot… I love the tingling on my foot and that feels like… Tightening and frown… I love mybtightenIng and frown and that feels like… More tingling on my head… I love the tingling on my head… And that feels like… Small smile… I l love my small smile and that feels like…


    I love my frown and that feels like…

    Big breath.. I love my big breath and that feels like

    A lil more tingling and pinching on my sacrum. I love the pinching on my sacrum… And that feels like… Small breathing… I love my small breathing and that feels like… Sleepiness

  391.  #391Daria on April 8, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Boomer – I encourage you to look at my comment not as an accusation but in order to notice and babystep to heal this common pattern

  392.  #392Daria on April 8, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Lg – neutral days are the ‘worst’ as those are the times to retard and weaken hairgrowth. They are the days for waxing plucking shaving.

    Thanks for your support. I seem to have shifted the pattern some and your acknowledgement reflects that to me.

  393.  #393Prairie Girl on April 8, 2011 at 10:33 am

    OMG I am soooo behind on posts.. I think I’m only in the 100s and I can’t stay on any longer…

    Boomer- while I thought there was some interesting/good info in LP’s response to you.. I didn’t really think it sounded like you or your situation/question…

    I hope you sent the text/reply that Jacquline (I think?) posted.. I liked it.. short and sweet w/FMs

    I too like sex talk… I’m sorry, but if a guy can do a good balance w/it he’s a rock star in my book… Iowa horse trainer is really step up.. calls everyday at least once.. texts all day.. but not much sex talk.. so hes boring.. I’m working on it to make sure it’s not some defense thing on my part.. like using getting naked to avoid BEING naked or something.. last pm he started being more flirty that way… I liked it…

    I know what you were asking about the balance… I don’t have the answer.. But I’m gonna tell you what I tell myself.. You can’t say the wrong thing to the right person…

    And….. It felt good (which is how I judge things as right for me) when I read what (I forgot who posted it!!!! DAng it!) said about the timing of having sex not making a difference.. if a guy was only after sex so then poofed… good riddance… and if a guy was a real contender he’d stay…I CHOOSE this to believe this to be true for me… anything else feels too gamy..

    Love your guts!

  394.  #394Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 10:34 am

    SLV: Ah yes, the dog training situation. That did not feel very good. After it happened, I talked with the main lady (it was an assistant who was rough with him) and I was obviously outraged and very upset.

    I let her know that I did not feel good about the level of force the assistant was using. I agreed to come back and give it another try. Since then they have changed the way they deal with not only my dog and the others which feels amazing.

    They started being much more gentle. I actually feel amazed by how much the vibe changed there after I spoke up.

    I also called around to find other trainers in the area and visited a few different classes but I still felt best about the lady I’m working with.

    So that’s the update. That happened after our second class of basic obedience. Since then we have completed that course and also one full round of intermediate obedience. We just started our second round of intermediate and will continue with that until they offer advanced and agility which will happen once it warms up consistently because those are done outside.

    Hahaha SLV! Once I start talking about dogs, I can go on forever. 🙂

    This is the first time I have done dog obedience and I really enjoy it. He’s a little spunky Jack Russell/basenji mix with an inordinate amount of energy. He’s like a little circus dog. He loves to do tricks.

    I love how he gets challenged there. He has to sit and stay while other dogs walk around him. Big challenge! I really am having a lot of fun now and feel great about the trainer and her assistants. They seem to mean well. They are just a little old school in their approach. I appreciate that they are evolving their techniques to suit the preferences of their clients.


  395.  #395Daria on April 8, 2011 at 10:34 am

    I didn’t like the texture of the shampoos. I Love their scalp massager and bristle brush… It dies amazing things for me.

  396.  #396Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Daria: I don’t mean the hair removal days. There are somedays that aren’t listed as good for cuts or for removal. That’s what I mean by neutral.

    For example, April 7,8,9 are for hair removal or retarding growth. The 10, 11, and 12 aren’t listed on the first calendar which is when to cut to lengthen, strengthen, etc or on the second which is to retard growth.

    What do you think?

  397.  #397turquoise3 on April 8, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Trying something new tonight. I’m going to an anual singles night at a bar in Pittsburgh that I’ve never been to before. It’s called The Harp and Fiddle, and every year they have a singles night based on an old Irish custom of matchmaking. Apparently it’s the best singles event in Pittsburgh, so even though I don’t feel great, I’m still going with my sister and a few friends. It should be fun, they have matchmakers there, psychic’s, karaoke, etc. I’ve never done anything like this, next we might try speed dating… just for a new experience. I feel like I do the same thing over and over again with online dating, and I end up with the same results. SO, trying something new. 🙂

    Sunday we are going to have 80 degree, sunny weather, so taking the girls to the zoo. Todd asked if he and his kids could “bump” into us there. I said sure, wouldn’t normally involve kids so soon, but not a date, just a chance to see each other face to face. I had to cancel our drinks Wed. night because the girls were sick. Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but we’ll see how it goes.


  398.  #398Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 10:46 am

    i’m going to add to what Brenda said @383 about what Tinque wrote….I love it!!! thanks FW for posting it…(again)? i remember reading it before somewhere…i think it was on here…maybe it was something else…anywho..i loved it! 🙂

    Kyla..yes..nice job summarizing the two..i agree….

    for some reason Evan didn’t trigger me at all…even saying that he communicates so well (or better than)…my more like “awesome! i think that’s great!”

    so…i feel really good today..i just had a great workout and now i’m going to go get ready for the day 🙂 hotpilot and i are going to figure out what we want to do for the day and then we are going to one of his best friends house’s for dinner and games 🙂 yay

  399.  #399turquoise3 on April 8, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Sounds fun Jilly 🙂 Enjoy!

    Daria, what post number is the calendar on? I missed it.

  400.  #400Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Daria: I have a feeling you will appreciate this 🙂

    The lady I have an appointment to get my haircut with is an eath goddess medicine woman. She organizes beltane events and makes magical elixirs. I feel really impressed with her magic. This will be the first time she’s cut my hair. I feel really excited to spend time with her as she seems very connected and wise.

  401.  #401Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 10:50 am

    hey Camile…have fun tonight 🙂 and bumping into each other at the zoo sounds like a good idea because it’s real life interaction and it’s outside with other things going on instead of the usual dinner date…i think it sounds great!! 🙂

  402.  #402Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 10:54 am

    thi sis the stuff i delete

    i already had McDonald’s on weekend and oops, I’m having again….cheesehamburger and fries… Will this be my last fries this quarter? But it was fast…. carryout… excuses, excuses,

    I’ve been waiting around online, so need fast food, excuses, excuses,

    waitng for some answers online…. but ok I keep sneaking over to the addicting blog…. more addicting than the cheeseburger…

    people get back to me….

    I”m hanging,…. will sweetie and I go to Montreal or will be be stuck in “spend no money” before it’s time mode…..

    Eeeeeekkkkk where is that woman….???? ANd i think she is girly whirly, …. she said “looks like” glah galh blah,

    I do not want to hear “looks like” you are running a business… where is my money???

    .. i don’t want to hear “I feel” “looks like”

    Of course no matter how bad it is, I’m still independent and not going to some J-O-B where women learn to bow down to men and believe every blooming word that comes out of their mouths….

    but what coast is my money on nowwwww?????

    Got tired of waiting… went and bought something….

    tick tock tick tock

    scroll up to the blog….

  403.  #403KS on April 8, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Will you plz post the link where you were doing the Carol Allen compatability reports? I looked but could not find it. Thanks!

  404.  #404Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Camile (love your name!)

    Did you get the glitter out of the carpet yet?

  405.  #405Boomer on April 8, 2011 at 10:59 am

    PG, thanks, buddy 🙂 I did send Jacqueline’s message. He did not respond to it, but that is neither here nor there. He has said repeatedly though…”I love the way you communicate. You are so in touch with your feelings.” So I have succeeded there, for sure.

  406.  #406Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 11:06 am

    KS: I ran a report here which cost $20 per report

    it sounds like Lucy may have found a site that does it for free. does have some free compatibility reports. They are a little different than the one I did. They are based on western astrology and the one I did was Vedic astrology.

    I’m learning to take it all with a grain of salt though.

    Are you interested in running one for you and your ex?

    I have mixed feelings about astrology. I don’t really want to believe it. Yet almost everything I read is so right one.

  407.  #407Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 11:07 am

    @345: Daria says:
    “…Slv – the change I made was writing the Thank Yous to boy Daria on here. That’s it.
    Before this I was having a hard time (pretty as I am). Even showering and brushing my teeth. I was brushing once every three days, …”

    well, you always looked very clean and pretty in your avatar pic… 😀

    If I don’t brush my few remaining teeth a couple times a day they don’t feel slick. I’m not too good with flossing though and i really need tooth whitening. I’m overdue for major dental rehab. had soe oral surgery over year ago. And had planned for more dental work but got sick last year and decided rather live on that money… “living” is cool… 😀 So another challenge…

    Loves them challenges… 😉

    I think I might have a guardian angel; maybe I’ll thank her for making things possible. She hasn’t been around since about May 2011… I don’t think so.

    I need my foot bath back. I had a foot jacuzzi thingy but gave it to my DDIL when I moved last year and also a little plastic plain foot bath I bought at some housewares place. I used that most often but I gave that away too…. oh, how I regret it now. I can’t find one to replace it. It was little cheapie plastic basin thing but just the perfect size and shape….

    Anyways, I ramble… thank you,Daria I’m going to try a 99cent store to see what’s there… I want my foot bath!! I want polished toesies!


  408.  #408Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 11:12 am

    SLV: maybe sweeite will help you find a foot bath. Men love having a mission. 🙂

  409.  #409Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 11:18 am

    uh oh…pipeliner just called randomly to say hi…now i’m feeling all sorts of emotions…FLOODED with emotions…i can’t keep the tears back…i miss him terribly…i miss our connection..i feel really sad…we were so comfortable with each other emotionally and physically…ugggg…i know he can’t give me what i want anytime soon…ok i’m bawling right now

  410.  #410Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Alonka – re: “you first” – Did you see Evan’s post describing all the things he likes about his wife? That was one of them – that she puts his needs before her own. So some men want a woman like that and if (IF!) you are happy with that kind of man, it could work for you. I know of some marriages like that – the men are “charismatic” and the women are “obedient” – and they each get what they need from the relationship. Everyone is different, which is why not all of us want the same men. 😉

  411.  #411Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Consternation and disappointment are like snacks for me. Always available but thankfully less fattening than chocolate chip cookies. I can live without them but also if they are there, I’ll live with them too and take little crunches until they are gone…

    Yep, I see a couple colors no one else sees. I enjoy them and try to avoid forcing others to see them too… It’s kind of difficult sometimes…



  412.  #412turquoise3 on April 8, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Thanks Boomer 🙂 I avoided the glitter 🙂 They did have sparkly butterflies and flowers to decorate their bags with, but no loose glitter. The house stayed in pretty good shape, but my kitchen could use some attention today before I go out.

    I had one other thought on your situation, where I am paraphrasing here, but that basically you learned all this stuff, and then the new guy showed up and you slipped into old habits. I think it’s easy to do things “right” when we aren’t vested in the outcome. When we meet a man who we are excited about, have hopes for, feel strong connection to, etc. it’s a lot harder not to slip into our old habits… because we actually CARE about this one and what he thinks, feels, etc. It was quite easy to practice on Larry, because I knew immediately that I wasn’t interested. I’ve been reading these Rori emails for awhile now, and knew all about CD’ing when I met Tom, but I actually really liked him, he didn’t seem that he’d be open to it, based on conversations before we even met, so I went back to what I’d tried before, and it didn’t work AGAIN. So, my goal, is that when I do meet someone I actually like, to NOT fall back into old patterns, try it the Rori way, and see what happens. 🙂

    You ARE the yummy pie, and you WILL be fabulous tonight! Can’t wait to hear all about it!!!

  413.  #413Alonka on April 8, 2011 at 11:26 am


    I’m so sorry.. What did you say? Does it help to have a hotpilot in your life? Is he closer to your heart than pipeliner ever was?

  414.  #414Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 11:28 am

    @369: Daria says:
    “…Haircut on lengthening days grows three times as fast…”

    What I need is thicker. I’m getting kind of straggly…


  415.  #415KS on April 8, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Naw, not the ex…..he’s looonnnggg gone and I am letting it go slowly and trying to work on my issues about why I chose someone so toxic.

    Was thinking about running one with me and my husband. He is here staying with me while training for a job. He went through a period in our marriage where he was verbally and emotionally abusive. He says he has changed (me being with toxic man after we seperated threw him for a loop….he never thought I would leave…much less actually be with someone else). And for the most part, it seems he has. He has been treating me like a queen since he’s been here and wants to try again. BUT I don’t seem to feel ANYTHING romatic towards him anymore. Maybe everything that happened was just too much…..I don’t know. I FEEL CONFUSED. 🙂

  416.  #416Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 11:29 am

    SLV: I hope I didn’t say something that upset you.

  417.  #417turquoise3 on April 8, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Awww Jilly 🙁 I see this as one other danger to go from CDing to exclusivity fairly quickly…. you had feelings for him, he and hotpilot overlapped, and you didn’t have any time or space to grieve the ending of the first relationship. Even though it was your choice, doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. I’m sorry you feel sad. Hugs!

  418.  #418Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Jilly: Filtering this through a LOA filter, it sounds like thinking the thought “i know he can’t give me what i want anytime soon” is causing feelings of sadness which is an indicator that the thought is limiting in some way.

    I wonder if you can reframe that belief to one that feels better?

    Maybe, I trust that the right man is magnetizing to me.
    I trust the the highest good will come to all involved.


  419.  #419Queenbee on April 8, 2011 at 11:35 am

    RE: 356 FW – Thank you so much for your feedback! I truly appreciate it.

    I did call him. He was making dinner for guests coming over. He asked me out for Sunday and we are going out of town together.

    I’m really glad that I did not send him the text coz hearing his voice and getting some context to where he was at made all the difference. The text would have been the wrong vibe.

    I’m noticing lately that maybe I do not belong here on Siren Island. FW, you asked about my expectations and this is something to ponder. However, what I see is that yes, some of the tools work, however, perhaps for me not all of them as they are designed. I end up creating a degree of difficulty that’s as high as the moon where a man would not be able to get anything from me if I assert all my boundaries.

    The man I’m dating is amazing! Yes, I get that I am the yummy pie, but he truly is amazing because I feel amazing around him. He is the nicest guy I’ve ever dated and I DO feel proud to have him.

    I’m not CDing men – no time, no interest, no organization. I CD myself, friends and fam. Then again not too much of the last two. I love myself, I enjoy my company, I have a full life. My career is wildly imaginative, fun and artistic and I give myself fully to it where I’m constantly meeting people. So when I’m alone, I want to be alone.

    I don’t want to online date or go on dates with men if I don’t want to. I’ve CDed in the past without knowing and so did not reap all of the ‘benefits’ as Rori describes. I’ve never done it the way it is structured here, so I would not know. In my mind however, it feels horrible to date 100 men in 2 and a half years as LD mentioned (no judgement on LD at all, just expressing me). The thing I actually don’t like immediately is the amount of time I would spend. Then… all sorts….

    Just the one convo with the guy at the party on Wed who brought up my work was enough. Do I really need to CD to find out anything about that convo? No, it feels redundant and like a waste of my time. I could just do without it completely.

    When we are supposed to do only what feels good to us, well it seems to create an unrealistic degree of difficulty for me and I end up pushing my man away, yet I truly feel these things.

    I had a horrible boyfriend in the past. We went on vacation and as normal slept in the same room. I hated it! But that’s coz I hated him. I’m really conscious of personal space and it feels good to me to be in separate rooms with a man if I’m not married to him.

    My man was fine with this the first time we went on vacay, but recently he wanted to plan our Easter vacay and stay in the same room. Naturally, I felt uneasy… so he hasn’t planned anything as yet. I noticed that I am pushing him away. What he wants is emotional intimacy with me. For him that means being in the same room for a couple days. How do I stay on my rock – maintain my boundaries, if my boundaries are pushing him away?

    I did give him the no girlfriend speech. I don’t even remember why… but it was definitely NOT coz he asked me for exclusivity directly. Perhaps he alluded to something that felt ‘girlfriend-ish’ to me…

    It could be the expectation thing. Perhaps, I don’t expect what I should expect and I expect what I should not.

    I want to teach him piano because he loves it. But I have not done it yet because I don’t want to be all masculine energy, yet I do not want to do it with feminine energy, because I love how I do it. It feels good and my students soar.

    I didn’t want to bother with his tango coz it was his thing. But now I see that I want him to teach me. I may not want to join his milonga group, but I want to be able to dance with him at some point.

    Perhaps the problem is that whilst boundaries and FMs feel better than what I was doing in the past, I feel confused now and I’m not actually building moments with my man but actually just pushing him away.

    My man is the amazing, committed boyfriend type that EMK talks about – LOL! – I think. Though I am NOT agreeing with EMK. His ideas create a subservient role for women and I feel put off by the way he communicates himself to women. It feels harsh and demeaning.

    So anyway, that’s me. Any thoughts?

  420.  #420KS on April 8, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Awwwww….Jilly is crying……LD was crying… it the moon or something? Hope ya’ll feel better. You are my role model sirens that I live vicariously through. 😉

  421.  #421Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Wow KS!

    I’m excited to hear more about this!

    It sort if reminds me of how Rori says to stay open to guys who are treating us well even if we don’t feel attracted.

  422.  #422Lilybelle on April 8, 2011 at 11:41 am

    143: Summerbaby:

    THANK you!


  423.  #423Queenbee on April 8, 2011 at 11:42 am

    One more thing – perhaps if I had not filled my calendar with useless things this week, coz of the misunderstanding which led to the silence last week. He may have invited me to the dinner he is preparing at his house for the guests.

    When he got in touch on Monday, I was all booked. My boundaries said “keep up your plans so he does not think you are waiting around”. I ended up canceling all the crap I had in my diary and now I’m here alone on Friday night, when he may have invited me.

    I’m gonna love myself through this. Either I’m getting it wrong, or I just don’t belong on Siren Island. Maybe I just needed some tweaking and not some radical changes like ALL the different tools?

  424.  #424Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 11:44 am

    LG, why don’t you want to believe in astrology? I’m thinking – especially after hearing what my science-minded son had to say – that it’s similar to genetics.We were born w genes that partially determine certain things about us and some just create tendencies – and there is always much room for personal choice no matter what our genes are.Similarly, astrology says that at birth we were stamped w an energetic pattern created by the movements of the universe. It seems beautiful to me, part of God’s creativity

  425.  #425Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 11:46 am

    thank you Alonka, Camile, LG and KS

  426.  #426Lucy on April 8, 2011 at 11:46 am

    What do you think? (I’m not trying to “convince” you – just sharing my own thoughts. <3)

  427.  #427Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 11:46 am

    @392: Laughing Goddess says:
    “…Since then they have changed the way they deal with not only my dog and the others which feels amazing…”

    I’m happy you stood up for your dog and better still you have “made a difference” and other dogs will benefit too from kinder treatment. I’m feeling a little teary. I miss my animals.


  428.  #428Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 11:51 am

    i felt surprised to see that he was calling me in the middle of the day and he just wanted to say hi and he misses me bad and wishes i would come see him…

    i feel torn…like how can i have such strong feelings for two men? and i feel closer to pipeliner but i feel like hotpilot is more for me…and i feel guilty too like i should not talk to pipeliner since i’m in a relationship…uggg..that feels limiting…i can’t stop the tears though

    ya LG…i’m going to try and refraim it so it feels better than all this suffering i feel right now…

    it makes me feel empathy for the bachelor and bachelorette shows…it’s not easy…and

    Camile you are right there was no proper morning for the relationship i don’t know if its necessary but i do feel really sad about it…he was my best friend too…

  429.  #429KS on April 8, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I am REALLY trying to stay open. My daughter would LOVE to see us back together. Yes, I am enjoying all that he is doing for me….but the thought of being physical with him…..just feels Ewwwwwww. Idk…we shall see what happens. I am open to being suprised!

  430.  #430Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 11:56 am

    i felt like it needed to end with pipeliner and hotpilot came into the picture about the same time…pipeliner is long distance and as far as i can see that’s the way it will stay unless i decided to move to him and move around with him from job to job….um no thanks…i don’t want a LDR

  431.  #431Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 11:57 am

    @408: Lucy says:
    “…Everyone is different, which is why not all of us want the same men….”

    This is very true. Where I am in my preparation now is learning me, actually I’m rediscovering somethings I learned long, long ago and kinda sorta put aside. Also, defining, what things I desire in life partner.

    I sense you and I are seeking more “balanced” “mixed” men they don’t require a lot of “obedience” and walking two steps behind. I think this is so,,, maybe not,,, I don;t want to speak for you. I’m looking for someone who can “do the dance.”


  432.  #432Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 11:59 am

    awww Queenbee…you do belong here…ya maybe just take some babysteps…Rori uses the house made out of a deck a cards and starting from the top so as not to bring the whole house down at once…

  433.  #433Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Jilly: I feel worried I may have sounded too logical there instead of compassionate. 🙁

    I totally understand your sadness too

  434.  #434Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    KS…is your ex still staying with you? i might have missed something…

  435.  #435Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    LG..oh i took it the right way..i felt compassion from you..i feel connected to you

  436.  #436Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    @414: Laughing Goddess says:
    “…SLV: I hope I didn’t say something that upset you…”

    Gosh, no. I enjoyed so much reading about your little dog. Was there something else..? Did I bother you about saying to go ahead and cut your hair if you felt good doing it and wait until later to do the calendar routine. uh, was that another run-on sentence of mine?… tee hee 😛


  437.  #437Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Lucy: I have resistance to astrology because I don’t like to believe that I am limited in any way.

    Ultimately though I do believe in it and I do see it as being much like our genetic code.

    Am I limited because I have blue eyes? Not really. So in that sense maybe astrology isn’t limiting, it’s just defining.

    I dunno…..

    This is my own internal struggle with it.

  438.  #438KS on April 8, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Well he’s still legally my husband but we have been seperated for over a year and I dated someone in between who threw my heart on the floor and stomped on it. (Inner drama queen peeking out). Lol

    But, yeah…he’s my husband (together for 17 years) and hes staying with me and daughter for awhile.

  439.  #439Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    LG – i believe we can change our DNA!

  440.  #440Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Boomer – i feel guilty and… confused?unsure?

    i have spoken to you in a masculine voice way, without having been asked to do so.

    instead, i would like to explore my OWN triggers.

    i don’t want to direct you in a way that doesn’t feel healing for both of us.


  441.  #441Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Queenbee I feel you. I am also wondering if you could look beyond EMK’s tone and see if you can find value in the words. That is what I look for in all.

  442.  #442Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    i had a convo with my dad, it felt bad, but i was not attacked. that felt surprising and good

    then i cried. for a good few minutes in front of the stove, even though my mom was there

    now i feel SOOO good

    and the sun is out which makes me feel SOOO good about life and the world

    I intend to move to Brazil ! soon! yay!!

    I intend to feel safe, free and happy!

  443.  #443Laughing Goddess on April 8, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    No SLV, I wasn’t bothered at all that you said that about getting the cut. 🙂

    I was willing to do that if the stylist was really wanting to follow thru with the appt. She’s having a rough day so we are just going to hang out for a bit instead. I had a feeling it would work out that way.

    I feel excited to experiment with the calendar and see if I notice a difference. I feel really inspired to start taking better care of my care. It’s still luscious but could use some tlc.

    Speaking of, I must run now. Love to you all!!!

  444.  #444gina on April 8, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    I’m beginning to wonder if men aren’t just big titty babies that we ought to just go ahead and suckle.

    yikes. that feels just awful…

  445.  #445Jilly on April 8, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Queenbee…also…i just try and be open warm authentic and vulnerable to the best of my ability and let the rest come into play as it will…

    and within that i find that i am true to myself…which helps with my self-esteem and ultimately my “degree of difficulty” but i don’t concern myself with how that appears to men because i know it for me…

    those are my little “guidelines” …i can’t go wrong…there is nothing to ruin

    i think you are doing great…just keep listening to yourself and notice when you second guess are a smart beautiful woman…you don’t need to second guess yourself 🙂 hugs

  446.  #446Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 12:14 pm


    RE: #385 – Mullein

    No, no alcohol. 2000 mg mullein leaf extract, vegetable glycerin, and USP purified water.

  447.  #447Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    RE 417 Also Queenbee the fact that you will not be at the dinner tonite might cause him to really miss you if he is really in a good place in his mind about you. If so the attraction chould increase and Sunday afternoon could be really amazing if you are positive and open. Though you might have pushed him a way a little bit as suggested by Daria if you work on your vibe with the “All That” and other tools, things could change on a dime on Sunday. I really believe that.

  448.  #448Senior Lady Vibe on April 8, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    @442: gina says:
    “…I’m beginning to wonder if men aren’t just big titty babies that we ought to just go ahead and suckle.
    yikes. that feels just awful…”

    LOL 😆 It might be true sometimes.


  449.  #449Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    LG – if she seemed open i would share the moon calendar with her!!!

    i feel excited FOR YOU!!!

    awesome!! also there are excellent videos for doing blunt snip haircuts on the webpage (somehow i feel a closing down and that she might not be open to this part)

    the link for the calendar is here:

    i did not realize there were neutral days! lol! i suppose they would be neutral, getting closer to the next upcoming usefulness… ie Lengthening on the 14-15th (that’s when i’ll be getting mine cut by my MAMI 🙂 )

    the haicutter says a blunt snip cut on the listed days is like 12 !!! acupuncture sessions. Mine really did feel that way too! my scalp and body were so energized!

    I did a strengthening and my hair has fallen out much less than usual in the shower

  450.  #450Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    SLV – omgosh! i finally (on reread) get the joke about “sweetie” not being a “tool”

    looooool!!!!!!! 🙂

  451.  #451Brenda on April 8, 2011 at 12:20 pm


    Re: #129 – I have felt frustrated with the hen-pecking on here too for a while. I feel happy you addressed it.

    I’m also happy to know you talk to Jes(us Chr(ist, too, tho….but we’re not allowed to talk about Him on here.

    You said, “But yeah, I don’t cherish her because I gave myself a compliment.”

    Did you ever see Anger Management? In the words of Jack Nicholson, “Sarcasm is the ugly cousin of anger.”

    We’re not perfect, Evan, but our goal, as I’m sure yours is, is to be our best selves. We are in process, and a lot of us, myself included, are finding our true voices here.

    Thanks for your contributions here. Sorry you don’t feel appreciated. Congratulations on your newborn! And your happy marriage!

    Warm regards, Brenda

  452.  #452Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    SLV – the next thickening days are May 11, 12, 13

  453.  #453Simply Shannon on April 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I just signed up for the Calling In The One class. I feel so excited… and at the same time petrified out of my mind.

    OMG. I have goosebumps. I’m doing this!! So proud of me. Thank you Shannon for taking a leap of faith and paying for someone/a class to help us move forward!

  454.  #454Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    that is when the moon is waxing on full, not right before full (14 is a hair removal) and not ON a full, 15-17 (which are for “beautifying” which btw WORKED for me to give sheen and waviness)

  455.  #455Simply Shannon on April 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Daria, I’m getting my hair cut on the 14th. Woot woot! Gonna look up the blunt cut thingy. Thank you for sharing!

  456.  #456Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    yay SHANNON!!!

  457.  #457Daria on April 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Thank you Daria for eating amazing healthy food!

  458.  #458Femininewoman on April 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    SOL That might also have been your inner drama queen. Not sure I like the word “bitch”.

  459.  #459Simply Shannon on April 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    April 14th – for lengthening. Not May 14 for hair removal. LOL!