The Good Wife – Drama And Heartbreak

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good wifeWe’re having a passionate discussion (between J. and I) about a fictional bunch of people!  The Good Wife TV show.  If you haven’t seen it, it’s practically my favorite show ever, I love the heroine, Alicia (you can likely watch it online.

At the end of last night’s show – many things happened, but mostly an ugly thing (I was so hoping it wasn’t true – and perhaps it actually isn’t, but we won’t know for now…)  came out about Alicia’s husband’s past indiscretions, this one involving Alicia’s best friend.

From J:

Rori, I was wondering if you’ve noticed this too? And I don’t know if you are still watching the Good Wife, but it was all so good – Alicia was owning it – until she screamed say something to make me love you. And it was too late, his “switch” had flipped. Would love to hear your thoughts….

I write about relationships a lot; I post on a relationship blog. I’ve written about this phenomena I’ve witnessed.

With men – all men! – there is this point past which if you push, you lose. A man will do anything for love. He’ll endure harassment, suspicion, derision, nagging and bitching. For awhile. Maybe for years.

My personal theory is men are hardwired to equate love with doing and they’ll do anything to make you happy. They try and try and try. And one day, the stop. The switch flips. And if you’ve ever felt that switch flip, you know what I’m talking about. They just give up. Like if their allotment of trying has run out.

And every man is different with this timeline. Even when he’s wrong, he’s got a timeline. Even when you are the victim of his aggressive or abusive actions, he has a timeline.

There is a point past which a man cannot be pushed. My friends and I both experienced it in our early 20’s. I taunted my drunk boyfriend and got his fist smashed into my face while driving. I was making him jealous, slightly drunk myself, knowing he was boiling – and I pushed.

And sometimes we don’t even push. The man just gives up. The man decides to follow his bliss. A boyfriend I had wanted to be and Indian and do sweatlodges…so off he went to cut grass for the Indians by hand with scissors (though he couldn’t dance), leaving me unable to walk with a new German Shepherd puppy and a house to take care of for two weeks. He came back, he felt bad, he promised to make it up to me. So, he took me to a fabulous new age metaphysical event with many popular authors in Austin a few weeks later. My best friend and her husband came too.

And that first night we ended up driving half way back to Houston to go to a sweat lodge that started at 4 am. My weekend was shot, I was delirious from lack of sleep and from the realization that no matter what he said, no matter what he did…the switch had flipped.

And least you think this is something personal to me, I watched it acted out tonight on a television show – The Good Wife. She’s been wronged, clearly. Her husband’s slept with hookers, and now in a final blow with her best friend. Who she didn’t know at the time, in the interest of fairness and drama. And she’s moved him out of the house, packed his boxes and is adamant that this is done. Fini!

And he hasn’t flipped – yet – so he comes back home and has set up to see a couple’s counselor. And she’s not having it, none of it. She backs him up to the elevator as he’s asking what can he do. And then – he flips. She doesn’t recognize it. He’s throwing accusations, becoming harder and more suspicious and walled off and she’s screaming at him “tell me something to make me love you.”

And he’s done. And he’s wrong. She didn’t deserve any of this. She did however, push too hard. When he said let me make it right, she said no. When he said, I’ve changed, she said no. When he said, have you slept with another man, she did not say no.

Now for the sake of good drama this triangle will continue to play out.

But in real life? This man’s gone. He may not be gone today, he may indeed go to the counselors, he may ring the doorbell again. But he’s checked out.

And maybe that’s the very best thing that could ever happen to Alicia Florick. Just like the aha! moment I had at 4 a.m. listening to the Indian leader haltingly talk about the correct colors of the four directions and how they were laid out. It didn’t matter anymore. He’d chosen his own happiness and I wasn’t going to chose him. I was done. Nothing he could have done would have changed that.

But sometimes, we’re standing there screaming make me love you!!!! and we are so NOT done. We’re just hurt, angry, victimized, wronged, and out for blood. And we may get it.

Unless the switch is flipped, the elevator button is pushed and the door is closed.

My advice, and the moral of this story? Do. not. push. the. man. until you know what you want. Until you are firm in your boundaries, until there’s a line beyond which there will be no going back. And sometimes, even then. Don’t push – don’t push your drunk boyfriend, don’t toy with making him jealous unless you want a bloody lip.

Don’t push – ever. Pushing will not get you what you want. And it may get you what you do not want.

So, if you find yourself in that clear state of knowing that this is not what you want, don’t push. Walk. Walk away, maybe slowly, maybe with soft and gentle words or maybe with a well targeted bottle upside the slamming door for cathartic relief.

But, you decide. You act, when you’re ready. And you know when you’re pushing, too – we all do. Stop pushing and pull; pull towards you the things that make you happy and fulfilled. Pull toward you the man who won’t drive you over that edge. Pull toward you the good man who will never put you away from him, or put his own happiness above the both of yours. Pull toward you that man with whom you cannot flip the switch – and then you’ll know how true love feels. How safety feels. How respect and self respect propel a union.


From Me:

J – I have a completely different take on this..and would love to use your letter as a post and jump off on it – but not sure you want me to if I disagree….I want to write something like this(completely a draft..Ill edit..but wanted to know if it’s okay with you…otherwise, I’ll just write my part and leave yours out…:

I have such a completely opposite reaction than J’s.

I adore the Alicia character on the good wife and ingenious letter makes the sound as if she was doing something that was pushing him away. And yes, technically that’s true. Below I’ll tweak some of her dialogue to show you the difference and yet here’s the thing:

This isn’t about Alicia wanting to stay in the relationship and deepen it. This is about Alicia walking away from it.

And if you’re going to walk away. It really doesn’t matter how you do it. Except for this: As I’ve said before – you can’t shut yourself down some of the time and then open yourself up some of the time. You have to be open 100% of the time in order to be able to open up any of the time.

She handled herself so brilliantly, simply packing him up and moving him out as kindly as possible. Even paying for his apartment and being very cordial to him when she explained it. And then she walked away. End of story.

Now, and this is something you may have experienced, he shows up at the door wanting to make up. He wants her to forgive him. He wants her to take him back. He wants to do whatever he can to make it up to her.

Only, Alicia is no longer interested in that her anger, or upset, feeling of betrayal, the feeling of being lied to this whole time by her husband and her best friend is way beyond her ability to contain. (And I challenge any woman to be able to “contain” that amount of emotional upset.)

Yes, it would have been better (if this had been a real life instead of drama where we really want to ramp UP the drama) if she’d said “When I just discovered that you slept with my best friend, I felt like I’d been hit by a truck, and now I feel completely overwhelmed by my anger and feeling betrayed and I can barely think clearly. This does not feel like a good time to have this discussion.”

And when the husband, in the way many men do, turned all the anger around to her, accusing her of sleeping with a man she actually does have strong feelings for – Will – instead of simply saying “I have not slept with any man but you since we met.  Not Will, not any man. And I don’t want to talk about this any longer.”

But, still, what you get by speaking the truth in Feeling Messages like this is a sense of your own power.

You get an ability to not to get sucked in to whatever a man is doing.

It’s also a way to keep yourself open and communicating in an open way 100% of the time — which is always the safest way you can be in this world.

The situation here is that by putting a man on the defense — especially putting a stranger who’s attacking you on the street into defense (unless you can overpower him) — can get you into trouble later. The cliffhanger left us assuming that Alicia’s husband is now going to go on the attack.

And for me — I hope he gets what’s coming to him. I have my revenge fantasies, too! That’s what television and movies and drama and theater do for you. The engage our deep, tragic, epic emotions and memories.  They allow us a kind of catharsis.

And if it makes us want to scream at the screen then that’s especially good.

Life, though, is different.

Yes, if you push a man he may “switch off.” He may go into defense. Into attack. And that’s where J. is so right here.

On the other hand I really want to stress that Alicia does not have an agenda here of wanting to patch things up with him. She just wants to walk away. With as much grace and dignity as possible.

So as J. says, you can operate 100% of the time in an open manner, using Feeling Messages — whether you want to be in a relationship and go deeper and solve problems and conflicts, or if you simply wish to walk away with grace and dignity — and using the Tools.

As for Alicia — I do not ask for perfection. The way she handled herself is just fine in my book. Tweaks be damned.

What happened here is her husband showed his true colors by turning on her. And whether she needed to scream at him at that moment or just turn around and walk away, it doesn’t matter. For this character — and, actually, all of us — creating a cordial environment for her and her children and her husband — no matter what — would be the most important things.  I can’t wait to see how the screenwriters make this happen!

Sincerely, Rori

From J.:

Absolutely feel free; I think it’s an amazing moment captured on film and very complex reactions….but what does her “Tell me something to make me love you” mean to you?

On of the coolest forums I’m on is televisionwithoutpity and everything is discussed endlessly on there – and the motto is spare the snark, spoil the show. It’s almost as interesting to read as the show is to watch.

There was a lot of discussion about that on the board….and a lot of it centered on the idea that in a way he was right, it’s been two years in show time and she hasn’t committed fully, nor has she checked out. And that she’s had a third person in the marriage all that time.

Love the complexity – well except the board people said they made it uncomplex by showing Peter as the “villain”….so she had the perfect excuse to walk away. And how he mirrored his mother…

It is fascinating! And I’d love you to use my letter and disagree – I love all sides and viewpoints on things. I think it confuses people, lol.

And what I really want to know – is there a switch??? And once it’s flipped….we might be in the relationship but we’re not in the same relationship. I think.

Hugs and love,

From Me:

The thing for me is this – during all this time – he lied. About Kalinda, the best friend. She surely asked him early on if there was anything else, anyone else…and he surely said no (don’t remember exactly how that went on film). He lied all these 2 years. Kalinda made friends with her .. Secrets. And those secrets were the problem.

They may say they didn’t tell her so as not to hurt her -– but truthfully -– it’s because of what they were afraid they’d LOSE if they told her.

If he’d told her at the beginning, before she and Kalinda were friends, when she was getting through the hooker part…it all might have been different –- or not. But coming out now…no chance. He had a complete chance here, and blew it.

That’s just plain unforgivable – but more than that – even if she was up for forgiving – she simply doesn’t love him anymore and doesn’t want to go through it all again to see if she can love him again. And the way he handled it in the hallway made it impossible.

The thing is – if she was able to really love him again after the first blow…she just simply couldn’t get it up to do it again.

That’s my take. And Peter became the villain when he attacked her instead of getting how painful this must be for her. ((Which is ostensibly the reason he didn’t tell her and swore Kalinda to secrecy in the first place – remember him saying “It would kill her” (to find out…)?  He seemed to have forgotten about that.))

From J:

…but of course you’ve hit the nail on the head – she wants the TRUTH…and he can’t get that, or won’t.  I’m glad you’re  ready to post about the show, though!  It’s time!!  The show is fascinating.
And Will’s been pretty morally ambiguous too…which makes it even more interesting.  Kalinda being “blameless” has some posters thinking that Peter didn’t really do it – he just can’t say why, like FBI/witness protection.  But I don’t know – I think it’s more of he can’t tell the truth – he just can’t.
Some men lie.  You either decide that you can deal with the harm that could cause or you leave.
From Me:

There’s the truth, there’s what you need, and there’s just where you don’t want to be anymore.

Next time you find yourself working so hard for a relationship – ask yourself – is this how you want love to be?  Hard work?

Love, Rori


  1.  #1gift on May 4, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    I think that men are more tolerant of a challenging partner. However, I think that every man has his breaking point. There is always a point where enough is enough.

  2.  #2Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Second Siren of the day !

  3.  #3Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    About the end of marriages…

    Men are often inspired to anger , they defend with attack at the level of money and assets.or worse still, child custody disputes.

    Once the woman has checked out emotionally , perhaps she could be careful about NOT pushing the man into attack and anger /revenge mode when it comes to pure practicalities of having an “amicable” divorce.

    If she leaves him in neutral without pushing him , she has more chance of a less angry divorce and possibly less financial dispute.

    I have seen this with girlfriends who could maintain the no push attitude , no firing back , their men eventually mellowed and felt enough guilt to finalise property division quickly and fairly , while the ones who pushed him just escalated into World War Three.

    In my own case I didnt push , but when he started to attack me i escalated fire when i should have remained neutral . This cost me dearly in the end.

  4.  #4janjune on May 4, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    oh gosh that *is* a complicated dynamic — no wonder i had so many questions dancing in my head after reading your blog post jacq 🙂

  5.  #5Lucy on May 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Beautiful Rori!!! Wow. “Tweaks be damned.” This was my marriage. Reading this feels good bc I know that I could have handled it waaay better – but I did the best I could with what I had and who I was. “…he attacked her instead of getting how painful this must be for her.” Yep. Same here. It took my ex 10 years to finally “get” how painful it was for me. Just a few days ago… I said, “It just felt really horrible” and he sadly and simply said, “I know.” And I believe he finally does. Thank you Rori. <3

  6.  #6Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Good evening sirens…

  7.  #7Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Lucy #5 I noticed you used a feeling message in telling your ex “It just felt really horrible”, and he “got it”…amazing what that communication style can do. I am proud of you for speaking your voice.

    I’ve been practicing feeling messages a lot lately, very deliberately, and I feel so much more authentic….I appreciate the inspiration I get from all you sirens out there

  8.  #8Meemee on May 4, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    I am reading and re reading this post.
    Not getting it completely
    Confused and half enlightened 🙁
    Probably because I have no idea what this show is??
    Lemme read it once again

  9.  #9Meemee on May 4, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    I got up this morning and had a fight with my best friend
    🙁 🙁 🙁
    Feeling terrible
    Eating fruits

  10.  #10Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Hi Meemee!! 🙂
    I don’t know the show either, but I’m just going with the general concept. Now I feel like I need to tevo the show!! 😉

  11.  #11Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Aww sorry to hear about the fight. ;-(

  12.  #12Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    🙁 I hope you can work it out and time heals..

  13.  #13Brenda on May 4, 2011 at 10:13 pm


    Re: #8 – You said, “Confused and half enlightened
    Probably because I have no idea what this show is??”

    Me too. But I enjoy reading what Rori writes anyway!

  14.  #14Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Brenda, somebody was talking about bears the other day at work, and I thought of you. LOL…:-)

  15.  #15Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I think men really do have a breaking point when a switch goes off. I’ve seen it, but didn’t realize it at the time….and I’ve pushed too much as well.

  16.  #16janjune on May 4, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    hi emerson 🙂

  17.  #17Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    hi janjune! 😉

  18.  #18Emerson on May 4, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    #3 Rosa, thanks for sharing your story. Very enlightening, and good information to know. I have a few people close to me going through divorce, and they are at the teetering point where the assets are still being divided, and not sure if the husband is going to get ugly about it or not.

    It’s also hard because emotions are still runnign soo deep…and the betrayal brings up so much anger. Grr.

  19.  #19janjune on May 4, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    i hope you’re feeling better by the time you read this. i felt a little sad reading your last posts about you feeling that tired.
    are you still eating your healthy foods? you may have said somewhere but i miss alot on here…
    i think your comment touched me because i get exhausted like that sounds, too.
    now i’m learning how to take better care of myself by asking for help from the people around me when i get that tired and then sleeping as much as i can…
    used to try to do it all, all the time. not anymore.

  20.  #20janjune on May 4, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    goodnight goddesses ~~~~~

  21.  #21Alicia on May 4, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    I feel like I’ve been pushed past the point recently with my dad.

    Funny thing, I feel so much more calm and self assured and in control, thanks Heavens!

    I understand the cycle of abuse and the manipulation, that comes before the blow up to the nice phase.. I see so clearly now. I just refuse to get sucked back in.. and feel so little, diminished and unseen.

    Now, after expressing my anger and having a clear boundry of being able to handle myself with the biggest twisted enemy in my life.. I feel free!!!

    My counselor was so ineteresting. She was beaming for me. Also, she told me she wasnt going to grade me on how I expressed myself to my dad. Or even validate me because I didnt need to depend on the outside approval. However, lol.. at the end of our session she told me she was very impressed. 🙂

    And also gave me tips on what to maybe expect in the future and how to handle or get sucked back in to the cycle.

    It’s been a huge breakthru!

  22.  #22Alicia on May 4, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    *not get sucked back in the cycle.

    Typically when you make decisions to be more free and independent (take classes, go to school, get a job, loose weight ex) the abuser will start to manipulate and control and burst again. It’s just becomes an awful “normal”.

    As soon as I got promoted with in one day I recieved negative phone call. And it finally pushed me over the edge to BURST! Like.. seriously enough rain on the parade already.. Let me enjoy my life and stop strangling me emotionally. I still feel MAD. And I little unsure of my future but, trusting I can trust myself and figure it out. I am not a victim.. I have my whole life ahead of me.

    I hope I can be free from that emotional bondage forever and move on to a healthy relationship with myself and a great guy.

  23.  #23Lucy on May 4, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Thank you Emerson! Pure feeling messages make a Huge difference. When I was still using blaming language with him, it put the attention on Him – and made him defensive and attacking – instead of the attention on Me so that he could actually see and hear my pain.

  24.  #24Lucy on May 4, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    Alicia, I feel happy and hopeful for you. <3

  25.  #25Lucy on May 4, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    Dorothea – on the other thread – Excellent differentiation btwn genuine and blaming Feeling Messages! I found the grammatical aspects very interesting and enlightening as well. I would love to see Rori use those comments as a main article bc it’s a Crucial distinction that is often missed – and you articulated it so well! Thank you. <3

  26.  #26Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Lucy, maybe I was just getting that sense of your open energy when I asked were you in love with him. It may be that when we are truly open and authentic it is as if we ARE in love , and its that kind of GOOOOOD energy ? ???

  27.  #27Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Actually mee I found it half confusing too, excellent points throiughout but the bigger picture sort of lost me in thie post?

  28.  #28Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Alicia, Richard Bandler calls it the Threshold , and he talks about how to deliberately go past threhold when you are almost there and you want to change but you havent blown yet .

  29.  #29Rosa on May 4, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Thats in”Get the Life You want”

  30.  #30Lucy on May 4, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    Rosa, that’s an interesting thought. I do feel very open to him now – have been using Rori’s tools for over a year – and I do sorta feel like I could fall in love with him if he were able to step up and be what I needed. Alas he does not seem able. However, this open, vulnerable place makes our relationship much more peaceful – and also inspires him to give as much as he can.

  31.  #31Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 12:46 am

    I agree with Lucy about your excellent comment on the grammar of FM’s Dorothea, being aware that past particples are not the same as adjectives..

    A related thought based on your idea..maybe a true FM should be truly Subjective , as in “I feel unimportant” or ” I feel lonely” or ” I feel frustrated” .This focuses on ME . It implies or blames no one nor attempts to explain a cause. (NOTE People who are negative and tend to be sensitive may still read in their own interpretations of course. ” I know you mean that i am frustrating you” , but THAT becomes their own problem in interpretation.)

    Any time we make ourselves the Object , as in “I feel ignored” , or ” I feel disregarded ” or I feel stonewalled” it means we give away our power to the implied person who is doing IT to us.

    From now on with FM’s i am going to screen mine by asking am i the subject or the object of my FM? I will try and stay subject as much as possible.

    Thanks Dorothea!

  32.  #32kaitlyn on May 5, 2011 at 12:55 am

    “A related thought based on your idea..maybe a true FM should be truly Subjective , as in “I feel unimportant” or ” I feel lonely” or ” I feel frustrated” .This focuses on ME . It implies or blames no one nor attempts to explain a cause. (NOTE People who are negative and tend to be sensitive may still read in their own interpretations of course. ” I know you mean that i am frustrating you” , but THAT becomes their own problem in interpretation.)”

    HA! I always get guys that read into it like that. They even take it further by saying, “Oh, I guess that means I’m a crappy boyfriend.” Adam would say that and even add “I guess I’ll go kill myself. Knife or gun?”


    Still trying to decide what to do. I don’t even know if he’s on my Coast again. He’s not one to announce his whereabouts anyway. I have a challenging week ahead of me at work then I turn 40. I’m doing nothing about him because I don’t feel strong enough to handle rejection or indifference while I’m focussing on work stuff. It’s come down to accept all these projects that materialized my way or have a future where I eat cat food under a bridge.

  33.  #33kaitlyn on May 5, 2011 at 1:01 am

    I mean I’m doing nothing about him for now. PLus, it will take me eons and laser focus concentration to write that letter. My brain can’t handle him and work congruently right now.

  34.  #34Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:02 am

    i wonder if i don’t want to “complete” with my sister ala Rose Cole because i feel afraid to lose her.

    maybe i have pushed a boundary that is not pushable

    uhm i dont want to lose my sister

  35.  #35Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:03 am

    i had good intentions. i didnt Do anything

    im searching myself for blame, vigilantly

    trying to be scrupulously honest

    am i toxic bad sister

  36.  #36Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Lucy I wish I could achieve this with my ex.

    He is still sniping me though not as bad since i have been unwell.

    It always amazes me how invested he has been in attacking me and his huge anger at me even after 8 years now . This incidentally was never displayed in our 16 year marriage.He was cold and silent for most of that time , spent all his time in his office etc.

    And incidentally he apparently wanted to leave the marriage for years but didnt say anything because “you were too sick and the kids were too young” Eventually after I tried to ask about what was happening with us he told me this in a letter.

    He then proposed 3 options ,in writing and point form, his preferred being to stay married and have “discrete affairs” on the side..WTF?? The second was to leave the kids with him and me go and “get healed” Huh???? What I was suffering was neglect and unreturned love .The last option was divorce. I never responded to the letter. I was so shocked, and I was very ill at the time and my father had recently died.I carried on trying to please him like he had never written it.

    Three years later after several surgeries and an improvement in my health , I got up the strength to go for option 3 and asked him about separating. He suggested we date it from the beginning of the financial year and immediately began making financial notes.

    This is the only communication we ever had about the relationship. Ever. Any attempts i made to discuss feelings were blocked by silence and withdrawal .No I didnt do it perfectly but he was not interested .

    He would not discuss the relationship ever or at all. He accused me of nagging when I tried to ask for a discussion time , and would leave the room . he shut me down like a light switch.

    Now 8 years later he has an 8 year relationship , not living together , not remarried. Probably in love with her, my friend, well before our divorce.
    And he STILL hasnt given up his angry sniping which started AFTER separation.

    A very interesting psychological study if anyone has any insights??

  37.  #37Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:17 am

    wow i just got home,

    and 19 man, who i felt attacked by earlier…

    has now sent me a text that says “Thank you for being a Woman”

    (whaa? were you just testing me or something?)


    i feel amused

    and happy

    and good

    and i still dont feel like answering

    right now

  38.  #38Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:19 am

    i am realizing the thing i wanted to apologize to her about was not even the thing to apologize ABOUT!

    the knot is unraveling

    i am healing

    i intend to heal full and wholy

  39.  #39Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Hey yall, it’s really late here but I feel so excited Rori posted this!

    The story is: Alicia Florick is married to Peter Florick, the Cook Co. Atty General and he cheats with a hooker 18 times and gets involved in a political sting and goes to jail – a lot like Elliot Spitzer with some shady dealings thrown in. She’s been a stay at home mom for over 20 years, but she goes back to work as a lawyer and of the two owners, one is her old flame she has history with from Georgetown – Will. They don’t do anything, Will says he wants to be with her once but she’s either trying to make the marriage work or be the “Good Wife.”

    Peter gets out of jail and ruling overturned. Alicia is very very closed off but becomes close with one friend – Kalinda, who has changed her identity but no one knows for a long time and then no one knows why – and their friendship is a beautiful thing. Peter runs for re-election. The night he is re-elected, at the campaign party, an investigator tells Alicia Peter slept with Kalinda. She goes home, packs his stuff calls a moving company and rents him an apt. prepaid for 3 months. She calls him at the victory party and tells him to come there and she tells him he’s out of the house. He goes to their house and they argue in the hallway, he is extremely contrite and wants counseling, etc. and she is no. No to EVERYTHING…I’m done. He gets angry and almost blows….and the thing that I’m so fascinated with ….she follows him to the elevator and he’s accusing her of having an affair of his own, saying Kalinda is blameless….and she yells, say something to make me love you!! and he says, Goodbye.

    So, I think she’s pushed past where she might have wanted to push, esp. because she said she STILL wasn’t sure about a divorce…and Rori thinks she’s walked away and is in her power.

    Posters on the recap forum are evenly divided over whether she had an “emotional affair” and Peter has tried hard for two years or he’s an egotistical jerk that turned on her the minute he couldn’t get what he wants and is a pathological liar unable or unwilling to tell the truth. Which she has asked for repeatedly….

    So, it’s a cheating, slept with the best friend, love triangle of epic proportions and Peter…is ummm, Chris North!! Swoon….

    It’ll be online on hulu by tomorrow I’m sure…lots of complexity and a show that every single woman on it is a very very strong woman character. No victims…some bullies…and one – maybe – Good Wife?



  40.  #40Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:25 am

    edit: he accuses her of having an affair of her own …

  41.  #41Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:30 am

    And I LOVE LOVE LOVE the line from Rori about when you walk away, it doesn’t matter how you do it! That truth can set you free….

    for so long I wanted my ex to be a villian, I didn’t want to be the “BAD” girlfriend…

    couple that with 100% open all the time, and it’s an awesome challenge. But I love Rori’s way of doing it and the fact that it can be done!

  42.  #42Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:32 am

    MMM i had magic adventures

    i went to Getright’s house

    from this perspective, Getright makes perfect sense

    he treats me like a guy BUDDY. totally

    which sux if you want to be a date

    but does not suck if you are only looking to hang out at a guy buddys house

    then it feels ok

    and you recognize all the pot shots as… pot shots

    guy banter

    and then youre like

    wait. im not gonna let this guy take me off my balance!!

    and then you rebalance your energy

    and then he keeps doing it

    then you leave

    then he runs out after you

    3 times

    then you are clearly able to say to him “I LOVE YOU. YOU CAN TRUST ME. I CARE ABOUT YOU”

    stuff you could not say when you were all “into” him because it felt weird

    but now, i can totally see how i would feel comfortable with him.

    i have hella brothers, and he acts just like them

    so of course

    but now

    i am not having sex

    even though he asked me to

    and tried to punk me to so that i left. 2wice

    the 3rd time was because… i was being been mean to


    so then

    he wants to have sex

    and i tell him ill tell him later

    when hes not drunk

    and i leave on the bus

    but i want to tell him:

    “im only sexin men who want to eat my pussy and take me out and stuff now”

    but i just chirped stuff and then im like OHHH MY GOD IM SO EMBARASSED

    which was totally authentic and i was totally authentic

    i can see how someone who did not have hangups about being criticized and blamed, could handle him, because he’s a comedian. hes constantly kidding and as long as it doesnt affect you that hes picking on you then it should be fine, hes actually easy to get along with.

    i looked into his eyes, really looking for a connection. it felt surprising to realize i havent really looked into his eyes like that


    i never really opened up to him i was always criticizing him in my head for being agressive because i took his outloud comedian stuff personally

    and then he has told me he needs someone who can roll with his personality

    which is this loud mouth rough rude person.

    but as long as it doesnt ruffle me its totally harmless and chill.

    and im surprised

    i was catching myself like wait. if i dont ‘buy into this’ if i dont let this get to me, then its all good.

    its like guy buddy stuff.

    he wants to treat me like a guy buddy and i CAN be a great one.

    and i am down to be his

    but i only have sex with men who want to go down and take me out


    and i feel embarassed to say that, but i WILL say it because its the truth, and i live it, so i can say it i can i can

    i feel scared!

    i lvoe me!

    its true its true!

    i can say it

    i can say it its ok to want it

    its ok to want to have sex with who i want woo hoo

  43.  #43Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:35 am

    like this space/distance/whatever

    has me feeling so confident

    like he calls me a bitch i call him a bitch

    instead of feeling all crushed and confused

    now im like, oh hes just pulling that guy buddy stuff

    hold on buddy

    im here to hang out with YOU

    and im ready to leave now, cuz i dont want to be beed mean to

    and then i really leave, unruffeled, and even feeling love, cuz I KNOW thats how guy love works

    no wonder he’s attracted to me, i am so comfortable with “guy love”

    and that means for me, i will just have to communicate that sex boundary and get used to saying it out loud.

    cuz right now i feel scared to

  44.  #44Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:40 am

    wow i was really able to be into ME with GETRIGHT

    woo hoo!

    i did NOT feel bad

    i did not feel like i was sucked into his black hole

    i did notice him being into him

    an dim like ladidah, guy buddy stuff totally normal

    and also thinking probably me being female triggers HIM to feel more comfortable

    like maybe hes doing all this into HIM stuff on purpose

    cuz he thinks he will attract me

    and he keeps trying to ruffle me

    to see where he can hook me

    calling me a thief

    blaming me for the toilet broken

    where will i have low self esteem and start defending

    start feeling bad abotu myself?

    but i didnt

    cuz im awesome

    i did catch myself about to on SOME topics

    which were interesting

    but as long as i didnt let him ruffle me

    which is how guy buddies work

    iw as able to focus on me

    and focusing on me i was very feminine

    and he was all into me

    asking me to stay over a million times

    saying “im sorry” for blaming me for the charger

    coming outside and saying i shouldnt leave when i decided to leave

    (because he had just told me to, that i may as well go if im not gonna have sex wiht him, and im like, ok cool, peace… but really meaning it, cuz thats how guybuddies work)

    i am so blessed to have learned from my brothers how to relate to guys

    i see now all the stuff i judged him about, its just his normal “manly” stuff etc

    guys wouldnt mind it

    and i dindt mind it, as long as its not affecting ME

    and as long as its not affecting ME i can feel good

    and he feels attracted to me hehe

    he was all kissing my thighs hehe

  45.  #45Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:41 am


    and whats REALLY awesome

    my boobs feel sore

    which meeans

    my peezys coming!!!

    so no more feeling needy lonely !

    and i talked about it with the first guy i visited

    i am hopeing im like Rori’s friend in the newsletter,

    owning that i feel needy

    and that being a self love thing

    i felt good

  46.  #46Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 1:45 am

    Kaitlyn that sounds like you have made a decision to focus on YOU , your projects , your life, your future. it even sounds exciting !

    I wonder if you have tried the de-dramatising language tool? I dont know if there is a proper name for this . Lets call it Language Tuning. Parts

    I will call it ” Talk Yourself Down” from the highly charged negative state and” Talk Yourself Up” form the flat exhausted state.

    I do know my feelings are very language responsive and I work with my words to tune my feelings.
    Good writers are often guilty of feeding their negative feelings with fiery words and metaphors.And not even recognising the way it links to feeling bad.

    Anxiety feels more interesting and dramatic if I say ” I was terrified what he might do to me” rather than ” i felt a little uncomfortable round him”.

    Tiredness feels “stronger ” and more dramatic if I say “i am so exhausted and so tired of this endlessly depleted energy. I feel so flat”

    than if I say ” I am feeling tired’.

    Trouble is the hyped up language is read by my brain as an instruction to feel tired now , VERY TIRED indeed. And I feel more and more tired…

    I once accused G man of treating me like the faithful dog sitting by his door awaiting the next handful of food.

    I totally debased my power with this imagery. My words made me feel like the VICTIM. I worked on changing that. (Now I would say i was the expensive poodle prancing through the crowd being petted and fed and sitting on a crimson cushion!)

    The way i do the language tool for myself is I take something i think or write and look at it and pare it down.
    I prune every emotionally descriptive adjective and metaphor and try and make it subjective and short.
    I check honestly for accuracy.

    This de-dramatises the statement completely.It takes out excessive negative feelings that are associated .

    Examples are always and never statements . If there was ever an exception , then they arent valid.

    lets take the request for more attention.

    “You never compliment me or say you love me. You always make me feel worthless and like i have to beg for attention at your door, like a lost puppy begging for food.”

    This becomes
    ” I love to hear your compliments.I love it when you pay me lots of attention . I feel turned on so much by that .” (smile and wink)

    Also mind reading what others might say in a negative way eg the comment about Adam and knife and gun , may just make YOU feel bad by running the thought and picture (even if he actually did say that stuff once as there are many times he and other boyfriends DIDNT say that stuff)

    Its about selecting the words we use to ourselves to soothe and charm ourselves. The repeated word picture of eating cat food under a bridge hurts YOU Kaitlyn. I would love to see you using your talented writing skills in a self soothing way .

    Like maybe changing that picture to something wonderful about all the work opportunities you have now ! Can you see yourself as the successful business woman with assets and friends and a wonderful life to look forward to , toasting a success with friends maybe?

    Maybe seeing a whole lot more choices would also help as there is nothing black or white or absolute about options. They are endless when we think about them.

  47.  #47Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:52 am

    im realizing that i did some of the same, OCD’ish behaviors to him

    that he was doing

    and that usually i feel all scared

    and BLAMING of him in my head

    and this time, i just refused to go there

    i jut kicked it and ]did My thing, relaxed

    then went home when i was ready to smooth with no drama

    i actually ENJOYED my time over there

    by not taking his bumblings personally

    if i just think, i dont have to let that get me upset. someone who was untriggered by this wouldnt get upset.

    and then i dont get upset

    and then if im not feeling good im like

    im not feeling good here im gonna go

    and then i do

    like every moment is a why am i here

    am i still enjoying myself or am i leaving

    i am totally here for ME

    thats what felt awesome

    i felt like i went there to kick it iwth my friend

    and thats what i was doing

    and then i was going home

    and friend i was kciking it with cuz i loved him

    and thats it

    no drama

    no getting defensive for being blamed about teh toilet

    not even ENGAGING in response, etnering a contract of being blamed


    (i dono?)

    i could let this make me feel bad. im being blamed for the toilet. or i could just see it, as, ok my guy buddy is mad, hes complaining aobut stuff, and now hes gonna try to dump it on me,

    but im not falling for it, i know i have nothing to do with his toilet, so hes actually JOKING tho he DOESNT SEEM LIKE IT, so im gonna not even pay attention or else laugh if its funny to me

    im not gonna let HIS upsetness, upset me. or take him seriously that he really thinks or expects me to take responsibility for the toilet

    he just TALKS like that

    thats how he talks

    just cuz he blames me fore the toilet doesntmean

    i relaly have to accept blame for it

    or i have to do anything that doesnt feel fun

    im just here kickin it

    and i can kick it here with this upset guy

    even tho hes upset and yeling out blame at me

    i can let it not hook me

    and so what if hes saying that stuff

    when im too busy in my own vibe to really hook and get inot a drama about it

    hell jsut say it, then get over it, and thats it

    moving on, to feeling good


    thats how guy buddies would be

    thats how i am with my brothers

    i wouldnt care if they were blasming me for the toilet…

    i would be like, umm i didnt break your toilet, im not trying to be blamed for that…

    and then take my attention to something else, like putting on my lipgloss

    super learning happening here!!

    super LEARNING!!

    this can help me with my DAD!!

  48.  #48Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:57 am

    if im totally confident, around GETRIGHT, i can handle his personality

    if im always able to remind myself, WAIT i AM worthy


    does that mean he transforms now?

    maybe it means I transform now,

    to being enormously self confident

    this is such great practice

    cuz i see, i couldnt “be” with him right now

    i need to practice, then process,

    i would need rest,

    i might get triggered and feel bad and once i felt bad then…

    i would need to walk away

    so luckily this is just practice

    until my boundaries are effortless rocksolid

    when i want them to be

    and i dont take anyones rudeness personally, but as a JOKE

    see if i dont take it as a JOKE and take it seriously, he thinks i dont get him i bet

    but that doesnt matter

    because i know i am all that

    and i am here for ME

    and i am amused by my friend the guy who jokes

    and after i kick it with him i go home

    and i only have sex with men who want to eat me out and take me out


    i am a powerwoman

  49.  #49Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:01 am

    hes like a 24 comedian

    hed probably in a relationship need a woman who gets him, who gets that he just made a rude, off color joke

    and be able to accept that

    and not knock him down in her head, and aroudn other people

    someone whos like, oh yeah my man the comedian, and doesnt even notice him taking pot shots at her, because they dont even get close to her huge self esteem.

    and that doesnt mean me trying to be that woman, when i Do feel upset

    it means me only being there when i feel good… and lightly and easily communicating when im upset and leaving… without blame OR delay

    never tolerating nothing

    always feeling good

    always open

    when it feels good

    all past forgotten


    when it feels bad

    moving the other way

    with no blame

    with full love and acceptance for her comedian

    that is whatsup!

    i like this

  50.  #50Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:03 am

    maybe thats the message *surely is*

    and thats what it is with 19 man too?

    thats why he now says thank you for being a Woman?

    cuz he pushed my buttons and now hes like wow i feel awesome and im like afraid i pushed her away but that girl wasnt really trippin or acting like she would hold on to me, she was just really about herself

    and not even taking me (well my attacks) seriously

    so now hes praising me haha

    men are so CUTE AND SILLY!!

  51.  #51Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:06 am

    they start to feel safe with the one who accepts them through all their bad behavior

    and is all about her

    doesnt take the bad behavior upon herself

    OR blame him for it

    shes just like… “eh this is annoying bye”

    and then is completely not judgemental about what transpired, but totally open to connect when he presents a good feeling thing

    then hes like


    im like

    not being attacked no matter what i do

    and yet

    this girl is so into herself! shes not doormatty at all, shes just not attacking me

    how can anyone Not feel safe when they’re not being attacked

  52.  #52Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:07 am

    I was 100% authentic

    I feel great

  53.  #53Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 2:16 am

    This post is confusing me beyond measures.
    I feel disturbed too
    I dont get the larger picture in the first place.
    The complex dynamics and emotions- i dont know the story line.
    But something is really really disturbing me.

  54.  #54Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:18 am

    I was noticing how i had a habit of judging the way he did things like i found myself cringing at the way he was interacting with people and perceiving scenarios all agressively

    and this time i had a sense of also realizing it was a man thing and kinda testosteronish and in a way it did make sense and i didnt really have to judge him i just had to make sure i was feeling good myself about what *I* was doing


    then i was able to feel so much more relaxed

    not really needing his approval

    or subconsciously judging him

    just loving like this is my comedian friend

    of COURSE hes upset, he cant find his CHARGER.

    that is important!!!

    i would be upset too !

    so yeah it makes sense that hes all irritated and stuff

    and thats why hes blaming stuff on me, but it means nothing really

    i dont have to take this on

    i can just keep being me, and letting him do him, and if i start feeling bad, i just say so and say ok im ready to leave, sorry you feel irritated, and i dont want to have you be mean to me cuz of that, cuz i didnt do anything

    so im gonna go

    and hten i was like almost gone and he runs out and (this was the 3rd time, the first two were about me letting him know im not having sex and him saying leave then then running out)

    hes like

    wait wait ocme back

    i left it at my friends

    im like

    oh ok…

    im like u were just mean to me

    hes like i know im sorry

    im like


    well mmm

    i dont want to go in there and be treated mean and stuff
    hes like yeah i left it at my friends come back

    so now im like
    ok well this person has apologized



    and im like well he apologized

    ok it might feel fun

    so i go in and kick it a lil more

    and then now were chillin and now hes gonna do some stuff

    and i dont wanna go so i m like im goin home

    there was so much that went on that i did DIFFERENT on a subtle level and that i was AWARE OF

    this was like an amazing practice session

  55.  #55Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 2:18 am

    I dont know how to put it
    I dont understand the the point about pushing either.
    I dont understand what that means
    I read it more than 5 times.
    Still I fail

  56.  #56Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:20 am

    i can imagine this is how id be feeling with him if i never made up an imaginary relationship


    go mee go mee

    im starting over

    this is waht it feels like to start over

    i feel like im getitng to know him for the first time

  57.  #57Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:26 am

    without that snide commentary in my head *oh i know how he acts, ugh rudeass*

    that is just what i see from my mom toward my dad

    and is not even my VOICE!!

    but was going on just out of my awareness!!

    now i noticed that voice and was able to see it was LYING!!

    and it was keeping me from connecting

    and it was keeping my family from connecting too!

    all blaming dad for saying rude stuff

    while meanwhile i say rude stuff too!!!

    and its easy to – once i notice it – just not engage

    and say whoa well i dont like that an im not gonna deal wiht it bye –

    and leave without even being mad

    that this guy had a testosterone outburst

    it is SO not about me

    its about him and how he expresses himself

    and so what if it does IF ITS NOT ABOUT ME!!!!

    i dont have to worrry if i want to be treated that way

    because if i dont like it, i leave!

    i dont engage!!

    i dont have to take on his blame as if hes actually blaming me… hes only blaming me if i accept the blame!!

    hes really just saying “I feel angry” in his own words

    and not even TRYING to hurt me

    cuz in his guy language, that doesnt really hurt, its just guy complaint, guy agression

    i dont have to let guy agression hurt me

    i just have to notice it, and be like, oh thats guy agression

    well it either feels good to continue to be here or not

    ok bye

    love you guy, who of course has guy agression

    i just dont hang out against guy agression directed towards me

    i dont have to! im not EXPECTED to… if idont want to battel

    its SUPPOSED to dominate and cowe, and scare off opponents

    so i will be a scared off one and just leave

    then there will be no threat, no combat

    and then guy agression will eventually relax

    and chase after me with ways to bring me back

  58.  #58Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 2:27 am

    Some men cant face confrontations.
    They will accuse the other person before she gets a chance to unleash anger and frustration.
    Thats their exit mechanism. To simply deal with the situation.
    Isnt that so?
    Or some men will come and plead and beg untill they realize you still have feelings. Untill they realize you are susceptible to getting hurt from him. The moment they realize it, they are gone. No more begging and pleading. They say goodbye. They might come back again to check the susceptibility.
    Well, I am not being judgemental towards men.
    But arent things so simple.
    May be it has nothing to do with what we do and how we react.
    It is all about how they are trained to deal with face to face truth confrontations?
    Whatever we do under such circumstances are right and good for us.
    I am confused and disturbed
    Just my random thoughts
    I may get clarity as i think more on it?
    I dunno

  59.  #59Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 2:29 am

    Cant put my fingers on the reason too
    🙁 🙁

  60.  #60Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:31 am

    Meemee – eh don’t try to hard.

    Rori doesn’t use the “pushing” idea.

    Thats someone else’s idea. The idea that if you attack, or irritate, or disturb a person (or animal) who is already out of control, and upset, they will attack you.

    And this makes a lot of people afraid of others.

    And we don’t have to be, says Rori, if we have our hearts open.

    (I assume then we can say, hey, i love you, and this feels bad. and im sorry you feel bad, and i feel scared like this. i dont want to stick around right now, and ill miss you and im gonna go now, see you later)

    kinda like i did tonight

    then you’re safe because youre not

    PROVOKING – pushing

    anyone that is upset

    softness won’t trigger them further

    it will calm them

    and they may get retriggered

    but for an instant there will be safety

    and if safety continues to flow from you

    there will be safety all around you

    and no one will be able to attack you

    because they will be melted enetering the zone of safety around you


  61.  #61Leo on May 5, 2011 at 2:33 am

    Hello everyone!

    I havent been online in quite a while. Have been busy taking care of myself 😀

    I just have a little problem…
    My man has not wanted to call me this week. We were mainly IMing when he was at work (which goes till 11.30p.m. when I am already going to bed). He has much to do.

    So just a half an hour ago we were IMing while he was at home, and I stepped forward (not good, mistakes) and asked if he wants to call soemtime today. He answered: “well, i will be at work, and its a lot to do… will see” As I then didnt answer for a while (was feeling mad and judgemental like: he could call now, before work, or after work, I am up till at least 11p.m., he knows that), and before I said soemthing that pushes him away, i didnt say anythign at all. Then he wrote “is that okay?” I felt like blurting out “NO” but i didnt. I just typed what I truely felt… that I was longing for him, missing him.
    And then he said: ” I am so sorry….”

    What could I possibly answer to that? Should I go on with my feelings that I missed being wanted to call, or that I felt alone, that I miss our chats, or…….
    Or should I just leave it be, as in “he understood what I felt” ?

    I didnt answer to that, I kept doing my things (get ready for university) and wrote him that then.

    Should I act differently the next time?

    Would appreciate some advice!


    p.s. Hope u are all doing well!

  62.  #62Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 2:35 am

    That makes me feel slightly better. 🙂 🙂

  63.  #63Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:40 am

    Meemee – i think you are right that both are typical man behaviors!!

    i see them in my dad as well as brothers and men i date

    and can i accept that yes, men DO act like this?!

    and can i then take responsibility to NOT allow myself to be hurt, by not being around when its harmful, and knowing when it is and isnt, for me,

    and if I AM around, not

    ever blaming him – AN ATTACK which, no matter how small the sting it seems to us, on an already triggered and attacking man is like poking a wounded bear – for being harmful (because instead i could leave).

    I am responsible for accepting men as they are.

    I am responsible for my OWN safety. by NOT being around a man when it doesnt feel good.

    If i don’t fulfill these requirements, i am operating under addiction, i am toxic

    i am toxic to tolerate, and whine, complaing, nag, beg, tell man he’s doing something wrong


    LEAVE before complaining

    leave before even complaining IN MY HEAD!!

    thats my job, to manage MY energy

    and therefore i can then accept his manly agression

    i will NOT be hurt then

    he will not have to FEAR ME, because he can HURT ME

    he will TRUST ME to take care of me

    he will TRUST That he is safe to be himself around me,

    that i can simply remove myself when it’s not safe

    and that that will always happen, so he doesnt have to judge himself

    i will notice when things are going bad before he does

    the ‘problem’ will be already fixed

    and he will be able to calm, and relax, and chase after me

    and reassure me that it’s ok

    and ask how can he make it so that i stay more

    and WANT me to stay more and more and more

    till his manly agression NEVER comes out on me


    its still there


    ** I was watching wrestling today, they were throwing themselves on the ground in the ring,
    it looked like id go rag doll and DIE after throw number 5

    but no, these BEARS of men were just ok with throwing themselves around


    they are BUILT for that

    they have this big capacity for agression and rarrghh

    but they can learn to manage it

    they are easily triggered though to use it, like a little sting, will hurt them, and then they get filled up for…

    its wild how men are

    just learning

  64.  #64Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:44 am

    Leo – yes i think this is an easy fix!

    you want something good, and you can easily get it, but the WAY you asked was not a way that inspired the other person to give it to you!

    which is good, cuz you can just adjust the way you ask – most of us learn to ask for stuff in ways that don’t work, unfortunately 🙁

    ok so what you say is…

    “i miss talking to you, and ive been feeling resentful just talking on IM instead of the phone. I don’t want to talk on IM, itd feel better to talk on the phone”

    and then don’t talk on IM any more

    he will probably call in a few hours

    (that may not have been idea, but it will work. there may be other, even deeper ways to express feelings and get more connected. mine was kinda Divaish and superficial really… or im judging myself)

  65.  #65Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:47 am

    Leo – oops just read the second half of your post – got all excited and typed after the first half –

    and thats GREAT! that you shared feelings

    now what i would do is after he says “im so sorry”

    is say how i feel again.

    to me, this feels good! he’s showing concern for me!

    but whatsup? i still feel bad cuz i really want a call???


    how do i FEEL!!

    “thank you. i feel bad. i feel like im not attractive enough to get a call from you and im feeling bad about myself… i dont want to feel like this… i feel unspecial. what do you think we can do so we can both feel happy?”

    and then he responds

    and then you respond with FEELINGS again

    DON’t break off and talk about ‘man stuff’ like everyday businnes,, university

    stay in the FEELINGS round after round

  66.  #66Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:53 am

    “Ever find yourself thinking the following:

    “I can’t imagine realistically attaining this goal even though it is what I most want.”

    “I’m not good enough (or smart enough, or attractive enough, or strong enough, or resourceful enough – etc,) to attain this goal.”

    “It’s not safe for me to reach this goal (they may hate me, or abandon me, or cease to love me if I do, etc.)”

    “If I really reach my goal I will no longer be ME!”

    I (Dr. Pat Carrington) see this scenario played over and over again with my private clients. They can’t achieve their most important goals – the goals they MOST LONG FOR, because they are not in alignment. Intellectually, they know what their goal is and they’re committed to getting there. However, on a deeper internal level, they question whether they CAN GET THERE, they question whether getting there will CHANGE THEM in a negative way, or they question whether they DESERVE WHAT THEY WANT.

    Those deep internal negative thoughts prevent them from getting what they most desire, no matter how hard they work to get it. It’s heart-breaking for them to experience, and it’s heart-breaking for me to see this.

    taught by Dr. Patricia Carrington, Ph.D.

  67.  #67Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:54 am

    What are the 4 main topics the program tackles?

    Limiting Belief #1. (Week #1)

    “I can’t imagine realistically attaining this goal even though it is what I most want.”

    This belief stems from the tyranny of “HOW” thinking – of not believing in any possibility when you cannot see the steps leading to it in advance. This happens when you don’t know exactly how it can come about. Your insistence on knowing the “how” beforehand can ruin your ability to achieve what you most desire.

    Limiting Belief # 2 (Week #2)

    “I’m not good enough (or smart enough, or attractive enough, or strong enough, or resourceful enough – etc,) to attain this goal.”

    This is the limiting belief of an “INADEQUATE SELF” – the fear that you do not have what it takes to reach your desired goal. It can stop you in your tracks even before you get started.

    Limiting Belief # 3 (Week #3)

    “It’s not safe for me to reach this goal (they may hate me, or abandon me, or cease to love me if I do, etc.)”

    This fear-based belief tells you that if you reach your goal you will experience a serious loss or some harm will come. This “danger” belief can make you subconsciously sabotage your goal, stopping you midway.

    Limiting Belief # 4 (Week #4)

    “If I really reach my goal I will no longer be ME!”

    This Loss of Identity belief tells you that you will somehow be disoriented and not recognize yourself if you reach your goal. It can result in illogical holding on to “what is”, even when the Universe is attempting to bring to you exactly what you want.

  68.  #68Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:55 am

    omg thats freakin awesome i love her wisdom

  69.  #69Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:58 am

    its 200 dollars to sign up to change those beliefs around the biggest goal you have, the one that seemed unobtainable till now

    Pat Carrington is one of the original EFT masters

    her work is powerful

  70.  #70Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:09 am

    im getting what i most want ! well some of it

    late night invitations to party

    i felt a shift

    i did Ask and Receive

    on the first one, twice

    thats a biggie for me

    that and the safety one… (oh no! they;ll raid me, kill me, imprison me reaction)

  71.  #71Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:10 am

    and the identitiy one

    and a thell turn on me, i will no longer be part of them, i wont fit in , ill feel left out, ill feel separate, ill feel not quite belongign


    wow trigger hi to me


  72.  #72Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:10 am

    i am feeling powerfully compassionate tonight

  73.  #73Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:17 am

    i would use emoticons with my feeling messages if i were iming something i was negotiating


    it feels bad to only im and no call throughout the day… 🙁 i don’t want to go so long without hearing your voice. that doesn’t work for me 🙁 i feel bad… what do you think we can do so it can work out ?

  74.  #74Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:18 am

    Daria – have I mentioned, lately, that i love you!

    have i mentioned, theres no one else, above you

    take away all my sorrows

    ease my troubles, thats what you do


    i love me

  75.  #75Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:21 am

    i have so much energy in me, waiting to exit

    in blood


    i love my period

    i am learning and opening and amazing!

  76.  #76Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 3:23 am

    Thanks. I feel more clarity now.

  77.  #77Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:25 am

    got so much energy

    im just feeling so amazing baby!

    it felt incredible to look into his eyes and realized i never really dared to

    or let him in like that

    and i was “In love” with him


    and i never offered him the chance to really even look in my eyes



  78.  #78Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:26 am

    Meemee – 🙂 cool. I feel amazing tonight. I had amazing breakthroughs about how i was pushing a man away.

    and judging him

    and thinking i “have” to be scared of him and “control” and judge, and blame , and nag his behavior

    when all i had to do was make sure i was showing up as 100% powerful woman

    and vulnerable with open heart

  79.  #79Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:40 am

    He’s the kind of guy, like a comedian, who just makes fun of everybody. He yells at the people on tv he yells at people down the street and he yells at people close by complaining in his hella funny way.

    That’s his way of being.

    So for me to be able to see it as that, and not take it personally, I felt powerful.

    And when I looked in his eyes I saw him . And

    It felt amazing to relate this way. For me not to turn on him for who he is, for getting grumpy or complaining but let Him be… While making myself happy

    This is just awesome . I literally left 3 times graciously, and he asked me back in.

    Haha it was awesome.

  80.  #80Daria on May 5, 2011 at 3:59 am

    Thanks self, for putting me in bed right now.

    I feel so excited.

    Oh man haha.

    Ok here’s one thing I almost forgot.

    He started kissing my thighs. And I was saying no to sex. And feeling smily.

    And them he’s like ‘you don’t even care.’. And another difficult man said that to me this week

    And this would’ve triggered me but it doesn’t, now.

    I’m just relaxed like hehe doing me.

    And I am not getting triggered into an argument…

    Or getting mean, like fine then, whatever


    I really Am feeling fine and I feel perfectly comfortable saying no to sex. And saying I don’t want to talk about why right now.

    And Chillin.


    And his complaining does Not throw me off balance.

    I realize how guys use that, sometimes to hook a girl.z throw her off balance, accuse her of something, get her mad. Then she will have an intense emotion and get attracted to him

    David deangelo teaches this. Any intense emotion will attract a woman. Doesn’t matter if it’s good or bad, women get attached w intense emotiOns

    And my brothers use this technique/ style too.

    And when his techniques are not triggering me… Watch out… I am calm I feel safe and he can’t ‘get’ me. He gets attracted I bet.

    He thinks I don’t care, and my degree if difficulty’s way up

    If I leave without getting mad, when I don’t like stuff.

    I’m like oh you’re getting super irritated? It’s all good… I’m just leaving now anyways… Then he’s like. Wait wait don’t leave.

    If I take on the hooks he throws it’s like I believe they’re true so they trigger me. Then I get off balance and my degree of difficulty drops like lead. Now he feels not attracted, now I would be paying more attention to him than to Muself.

    But he can pay all the attention he wants to himself – ‘narcissistic’ displays and checking out his body and talking about him – I’m Still more into me and I’m safe, safe enough to pay attention to him too, when I feel hood to fo do and appreciate his man toes w the claw toenails.

  81.  #81Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 4:12 am

    Wow Daria!!

  82.  #82LD on May 5, 2011 at 4:26 am

    Oh Daria,

    That’s amazing! I LOVE that!!

  83.  #83Sarah on May 5, 2011 at 4:36 am

    Hey Ladies,

    I was dating a divorced guy at the end of last year (He had been officially divorced for a year from a girl he had been with from 18yrs old to 30 yrs old so he had been with her his entire 20s)

    I was going through a breakup when I met him and I wasn’t that into ”divorced guy” – but he persisted, he was patient, he was kind, he was good to talk to. Eventually my mind switched over to him. After 3 mnths of dating he made everything ‘official’ with us.

    I was SO HAPPY! But just a few days before Xmas Eve his ex-wife posted back all their wedding photos and he was upset and made some really negative comments about marriage and told me that being with him was “a gamble I was likely to lose”.

    I was very shocked and hurt and didn’t know what to do about this piece of information. I made it clear I was after something longterm.

    Of course the next day when he wasn’t as upset anymore, he backpeddled and wanted me to forget what was said.

    Unfortunately things just started to spiral out of control from here on and I saw a total monster in him.

    He started to think too much and worry that I wanted something long term, he wasn’t sure if he was ready to go through marriage all over again, he was scared of making another mistake, he was scared of ‘wasting my time’ if after a year he doesn’t want marriage, he still feels very guilty for having a failed marriage /ruining his ex wife’s ‘dreams’ etc. He became very hot and cold, moody too, I saw a bit of a temper, he started lashing out over insignificant things – almost like he was trying to find a way out. He would compare me to his ex wife at times/snap a bit if I had any similarity to her etc. He told me he was so confused – one day he would end our rel, then change his mind hours later, then text me to say how much he likes me and want to work on things but then he started going out on Friday nights without me /ignoring calls if he was out/never included me anymore. But then was happy to see me the next day and be all over me again like he was completely in love. It was very push pull hot and cold behaviour.

    Eventually it was over for good and it has been very painful. Over the last 2.5 months we have tried the no contact thing……we then tried the friends thing but all we would do is argue. Then we tried not talking again – but now all of a sudden there has been a major shift in the last few weeks and it suddenly feels like we are in a relationship again…. but we aren’t.

    e.g in just the last week – he came over to apologize for our latest argument – over drinks – it was very strained and awkward. We moved onto another place and suddenly the mood completely changed, we had a great time, great conversation, I was really getting to know a lot about him, we were holding hands, hugging, kissing, then we totally made out right before he went home and it was just great fun. Whenever we meet up he tells me how much he has missed xyz.

    He msged me when he got home that night and again three times the next morning, saying what a nice night he had, that he was having pleasant flashbacks and would I like to see a movie with him that night.

    For the first time all year I felt like I had the upper hand again – finally! So we organised to meet up again and he was just so sweet, so caring, holding my hand, massaging my back, hugging me all night, giving me lots of compliments the entire time. He said I could stay at his place but I declined and went home….

    Again when I get home and the next morning I get more nice msgs saying he had a nice time and had fun etc

    Then Saturday night, we go out for his birthday until 2am – again there were lots of hugs, kisses, lots of compliments, he kept saying he really appreciated that I was spending time with him for his b’day – he paid for nearly absolutely everything (except one drink). He managed to end the night right near his place – typical boy- so I crashed at his place, made out in the morning, we had brunch in the morning and he drove me home – the marriage topic came up again, he reiterated how he would have to be very sure/would take his time and be very careful about marrying again – he dropped me off and we ended with a super long kiss again. That afternoon he sent another nice msg – thanking me for coming out, said he appreciated it and said he had good fun.

    SO by this stage (after spending 3 nights hanging out in one week!) it just felt like we were back in a relationship again. I was wary of the fact he could have been thinking Oh its my birthday this week and I will be all alone type of thing…and that he might just drop me like a hot potato now.

    But if not, I feel like its the perfect time to pull back, become a bit more unavailable and mysterious – as in leave on a high note while he seems all content.

    I still have quite a few dates with other guys planned for the week so I am thinking that I will continue on as if this rel is completely over, have no expectations, just enjoy each event as it comes… the multi dating thing with him included. (He knows I have met a lot of ppl and have been on dates)

    A lot of ppl have said he just wants to have his cake and eat it too – so I am wary of that – however I also feel like I am doing the same thing now too…..

    Or maybe I should be a bit more cut throat and talk about it – not let him see me at all until we sort out what is going on – or just see if it develops naturally again without freaking him out and giving him ultimatums.

    What do you experienced ladies think is the best thing to do at this point?

    Anyway, I haven’t heard from him in 3.5 days now – I just have no idea what this guy is feeling/thinking/doing.

  84.  #84Sarah on May 5, 2011 at 4:49 am

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    By the way an interesting thing – after we hung out that ”apology” night – the next day he told me again what a great night he had and that I had just seemed so happy and so “different”……

    Of course I immediately thought of my Rori Raye emails and knew exactly what he had noticed – I must have come across as genuinely loving life and being happy and putting myself first – I just didn’t care about him/us anymore, suddenly not caring about always trying to win him back or do or say whatever I could to try change things – I just enjoyed the moment with no expectations 🙂

  85.  #85Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 4:53 am

    Sirens, I have a question. Now that Steve’s brother Rick is terminally ill and been told he has 2 or 3 months to live, Steve, who has cancer is home taking care of Rick. He signed something at the hospital saying he would be with Rick 24/7. That is unless he can find someone on occasion to come in and take care of Rick so he can come by and see me. I told him I can go over to their house and see him. He sort of shyed away from the idea because Rick doesn’t like a lot of company…..I am starting to get upset because Steve shouldn’t be that beholding to his brother, especially when he is sick too. Rick is somewhat of a control artist, and it simply pisses me off that he wouldn’t want his brother happy too, enough to let me stop by often or when I want to see Steve. I don’t even know how much time Steve has left. I brought them dinner last weekend and gave Rick a card and everything seemed fine. But Steve told me before that Rick doesn’t like people around the house all the time. Well if I came by once a week on Sat. evening I don’t think that would be a big deal…..Don’t you think that Steve would stand up for me and say something to Rick like, “Look I want to see my girl and I think she should be welcome to come by on occasion. I THINK he should say that and I not have to say anything. Would you agree sirens?

  86.  #86Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 5:19 am

    I sure would agree Jeanette.

    I also wonder how Steve will get out for groceries , medical visits etc himself ? There must be other people available to care for Rick and do the respite cover for a few hours here and there.

    Which leaves me wondering what Steve is most uncomfortable about here?

  87.  #87Lercomari on May 5, 2011 at 5:23 am

    @Daria 80

    You’re so spot on about how women get riled over emotions…how cool that you didn’t take the bait. How empowering! Reading that made me feel empowered too.
    Thanks for your words to me on the last blog post, about naming what I want and not just thinking about “for now.” I appreciate all you said. I wanted to take some time to really think about what I want relationship-wise. It’s hard for me to think about marriage at this point, just like you said it was hard for you to say that you want forever. Well I do, but I’m not visualizing my wedding now. I’m not counting the days until he proposes…or am I? lol. I just got a warm tingly sensation at the words “he proposes.” Gosh, I surprise myself sometimes. Yes I do want to re-marry one day. Yes I can see myself with Techie years down the road. But it’s this time between now and “Will you marry me” that is most important to me right now. I want to be his girlfriend right now, and I think that is a reasonable desire. I need to go back to the ebook and do the visualize the perfect day exercise again. This time I will do it from my heart.
    Something really shifted for me today, in that I have fallen in love with Techie. *sigh* I mean true blue in love wit the guy. I always know what love feels like for me, like some barrier comes down and all the love just comes pouring out and suddenly I’m looking at him with new eyes.
    Ironically, it started with him cancelling our date for this weekend because he has to go out of town at the last minute. I was sooo disappointed because this wasn’t the first time he cancelled. I told him I felt disappointed (more than actually!) but I understood that he had to go. I went to bed and I couldn’t sleep though. I kept having these nagging thoughts of, what if he’s dating someone else? What if he doesn’t want to spend time with me? Is he withdrawing from me? So finally my anxiety drove me to boot my computer up again, log onto Yahoo messenger and tell him my feelings in the most Siren-y way I know how. He told me he was sorry about it, and that he does want to be in a relationship right now but he’s just under a lot of pressure and he has a lot of things he needs to do. Some things are obvious like work, some things are too complex to explain now, but, he said, I think you know that I like you. And I do know it, I really do. So that put my fears at ease, and by the end of the night we were saying good night and smiling, blowing each other kisses through the video call. He said he would see me Sunday afternoon.
    Up until that time we had been pretty cordial and pleasant with each other, but after I shared my feelings with him (It was so freaking scary for me btw), and he shared his mind with me, it’s like we crossed a relationship mile marker.
    I haven’t told him how I feel yet. I don’t know if this will be for better or for worse…since technically we’re not an official couple…I guess baby steps. We’re on the right track. I will keep reading the ebook to see what else I can do right.

  88.  #88LD on May 5, 2011 at 5:24 am


    Just keep doing what you’ve been doing: CDing several guys and taking care of yourself. If it feels good to you then you can add him to your CD roster, but don’t fall into an imaginary relationship.

  89.  #89Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 5:41 am

    Mee mee , Hello!

    “Or some men will come and plead and beg untill they realize you still have feelings. Untill they realize you are susceptible to getting hurt from him. The moment they realize it, they are gone. No more begging and pleading. They say goodbye. They might come back again to check the susceptibility.”

    This sums up yo yo’ing GMan perfectly .I love how you describe that.

    He used to to do a susceptibility test .

    He would ask me first who was I seeing and who was I sleeping with (I usually answered NOYB – none of your business) and he would spend a long time trying to get that information.

    Then he would move it in many different ways towards seeing me , then he would test me for susceptibility. The less susceptible I was , the harder he would chase until I agreed to dates and intimacy.Then he would withdraw.

    I wish I had seen what he was doing sooner. I was so blinded by attachment and hormones.

    In retrospect he was searching for validation by doing the susceptibility test over and over again. I thought it was sex he wanted , but actually it was my vulnerability to him and my susceptibility to his charms that validated him in his own mind.

    I do think, Meemee, that G and X shared that characteristic. They valued us greatly because our susceptibility made them feel good about themselves. But they didnt actually want us long term.

    We were their little shot in the arm of “feel good”medicine. They were angry when we took it away. They would come over and over again looking for more of it , the validation we gave them that they were handsome and smart and attractive enough to “have” BEAUTIFUL, SMART ,EXPENSIVE HIGH VALUE WOMEN LIKE US!!! They came to see it as their Right to have us and they got quite desperate and manipulative when we stopped our end of the game .

    I have come to believe that men like G and X who do this have low self esteem . Deep deep down they dont feel they deserve good women like us.

  90.  #90LD on May 5, 2011 at 5:43 am


    Not trying to sound harsh here, but as someone who lost my sister a couple of years ago, I have to say no matter what the dynamic in Steve’s family is, it doesn’t seem like you are really understanding that his brother is DYING. SOON. It is understandable that you feel left out, and if you don’t feel like you can let Steve go for a couple of months to care for his dying bother, then you probably should leave him. If you do decide to stay, you should be prepared for things to be all about Rick for a couple of months until he dies.

    It doesn’t really matter whether you or anyone else thinks that Steve should be the one taking care of Rick since he is sick too. Steve made that decision for whatever reason and you have to let him do it. You can make it easier for him or more difficult, but the fact is, he is not going to abandon his dying brother. I wouldn’t have abandoned my sister when she was sick, not for any man. And be honest, if he could coldly refuse to care for his brother for only 2 or 3 months, would you really want to be with a man like that? I know I wouldn’t. He is showing you that he is the kind of man who is going to be there through the tough times, so if you were to get sick, he’d be there for you too.

    My advice is to go out and CD yourself and do things to get your mind off of Steve’s temporary unavailability. Let him do what he needs to do without judging the reasons or dynamics of his relationship with his brother. Work on your own vibe and be opne and welcoming to him when he feels he has done his duty and comes back.

  91.  #91Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 5:59 am

    I say Amen to that LD and Jeannette. I was just about to write something similar. Steve recognizes that he will lose his brother forever in a couple of months. He might even be concerned that Jeannette might lose him in a couple of months. This is the last and least he could do for his brother and to make himself feel good. He wants to do what he feels is right in the situation.

  92.  #92Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 6:02 am


    Two brothers both with cancer, one dying ,one with an uncertain future..the more I think about it , I wonder if Steve is really letting you know something here, could he be gently withdrawing?

    I respectfully disagree with LD. Thats not how it is in my family.

    Dying is part of life for all the family members concerned. To me that means it is an intimate family event and that involves you as you are a fiance. One does not ignore ones fiance/wife/child etc in order to care for ones sibling, rather one invites those close members into the loving family circle of care. This is not just to multiply the love and support for the ill person, but a totally practical necessity to share the work and recharge batteries.

    He is your fiance and I am surprised that he would agree to care 24/7 for any other person, brother or not , and not see his fiance for those months. That is hardly living a life together as I would expect with my fiance. ESPECIALLY given his own health situation.

    But maybe he is trying to shield you from extra worry and work , given how busy you are .Maybe Rick doesnt want you around and Steve doesnt want to hurt you by saying it directly.

    I would attempt to negotiate days to bring dinner and respite time where you take Steve out shopping or whatever , depending what other care is arranged.Can you offer massage to Rick ? Hands or feet even . I would express this in FM’s.

  93.  #93Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 6:03 am

    Jeannette, I also agree with LD in her post #90.

    I understand how you feel about not being able to spend much time with Steve, but for heaven’s sake- his brother is DYING- you can’t accept that he is Rick’s priority for the next couple months?

    Why can’t you?

  94.  #94Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 6:04 am

    Rosa 89
    I know what you are saying. I know it perfectly well. I have seen that, gone through that, and finally (yes, finally, very very late indeed) I could identify that as a pattern too.

    Hormones and attachment- true Rosa. very very true.
    I still feel the influence of hormones at times. But when I feel it I tell myself that its a biological reality.

    As I said I never watched The Good wife. But when I read the description of the elevator scene, I got so disturbed. So disturbed. That was probbly because I felt I have seen mild and acute variants of the same scenes in my life. Over and over again.

    (In fact I am tempted to write for long long about that issue. But these days I have taken a mental decision that I will not write too much about him. )

    How are you feeling these days? Love ang hugs

  95.  #95Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:18 am

    RE 94 Meemee that sounds like strength to me. Focussing on the bad might only get you more. If I was going to say focus on that it would be with the goal of finding out what didn’t work so you know not to do it in your future relationship. Focussing on the good might however help to get you believing you could create more of that.

  96.  #96Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 6:22 am

    This is SOOOOO the way it went for me:

    “This isn’t about Alicia wanting to stay in the relationship and deepen it. This is about Alicia walking away from it.
    And if you’re going to walk away. It really doesn’t matter how you do it.”

    And I absolutely did NOT do it with feeling messages or grace…but the strength and pride were certainly there!

    And then this happened:

    “he shows up at the door wanting to make up. He wants her to forgive him. He wants her to take him back. He wants to do whatever he can to make it up to her.”

    And this is how I felt about it:

    “Only, Alicia is no longer interested in that her anger, or upset, feeling of betrayal, the feeling of being lied to this whole time by her husband and her best friend is way beyond her ability to contain.”

    But this line I absolutely could have said. Didn’t, but could have:

    “Tell me something to make me love you”

    And the reason is (at least for me) when you feel so betrayed…so naive…so trusting when you shouldn’t have been…

    When you fell head over heels for a man who wasn’t who you thought he was…you feel so stupid (I don’t know what the right word is)…the wool was pulled over your eyes…you never saw it coming…you feel like a fool.

    And you wonder how in the world you managed to fall for a complete @ss. “Why would a woman like me love someone like that?”

    However…if this man can say something, anything, to make you love him…something to show you he IS the man you thought he was…something that says “I was not a complete fool. I saw him for who he really is. I did not fall for a jerk.” then…you can feel better about yourself.

    Her words, I’m quite sure (and I don’t watch tv so I don’t really know the show and don’t have the character backgrounds) had nothing to do with wanting him back…they had everything to do with wanting to feel better about her original choice to spend enough time with someone like that to actually fall in love with him. It sucks knowing you would fall in love with a liar and a cheat and a loser…she just needed something from him to tell her she didn’t.

    Much Love,

  97.  #97Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 6:26 am

    It might be like something that Loneplum once called “the last attempt to change the reality”

  98.  #98Leo on May 5, 2011 at 6:27 am

    Thanks Daria for your answer 65!

    The situation actually ended this way:
    He had said sorry and afterwards i told him I wsa gonna get ready for university. He then asked if I called him now. We were talking a little and later on he was saying sorry again, and explaining how its difficult for him. I answered: “I understand your situation. And I miss you, miss talking to you.”

    I am grateful, for your answer, Daria, for I wanna learn for future situations.
    You wrote this:
    ““thank you. i feel bad. i feel like im not attractive enough to get a call from you and im feeling bad about myself… i dont want to feel like this… i feel unspecial. what do you think we can do so we can both feel happy?””

    Yes, you’re right. This is exactly what I felt. But I still feel afraid saying this to him.
    I know its “wrong” thinking about him and how he might react. I stll feel afraid 😀

    Thanks for your advice.
    I still need examples like this for certain situations. Just feel so insecure.

    And…during the past weeks (like 8-9) i was mostly staying/living with him for I had semester break.
    And now I am back at my place for during the work-week and just have to readjust to not seeing/talking to him as often.

    Thanks, Daria


  99.  #99Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 6:30 am

    Meemee I am recovering fast from my surgery on Monday. The anaesthetic was only 3 hours and not too much blood loss and thats amazingly better than last time. Thank you for asking.

    My brain is working and I am reflecting on lots of things here at the blog .

    Hormonal attachment is a biological reality. I feel so GOOD knowing that now. It has changed my sexual boundaries.

    I realised that if I have sex knowing the feelings of attachment and belonging to him are automatically increased biologically with every orgasm then my boundary must incorporate this finding .

    If I have sex and HE is NOT attached then i risk heartbreak when he pulls back. If I have sex casually I would need to be very defensive against any attachment , and doubt i could do it without being prickly , uninviting and unauthentic..

    So my boundary is now that I will wait till I KNOW he IS attached to ME emotionally before I have sex. In the past i might have allowed sex after a few great dates and then waited to see how things went , and got very attached, far too soon etc , etc.

    Instead now I have several men Cd’ing and not pushing me at all for sex. I am discovering they are really GOOD men and two at least would make great long term partners. I am not swept off my feet with sexual tension and excitement, but I know I would be if I began to go down that road. I expect that if I wanted to be committed to a good man who was committed to me , as long as a spark was there , having lots of sex would cement it for me 🙂

    I have discovered that the magic of “Chemistry” , for a woman at least , is fuelled by the feelings of attachment, and that for me , that feeling of deep bonding is an integral part of sex itself.

    I wish I knew this 30 years ago 🙂

  100.  #100Mel on May 5, 2011 at 6:31 am

    I think sometimes this “switch” can also be for a particular day or particular disagreement. There’s a point where they just decide to be done. In my experience, this is usually when things become too negative. I find it funny that a man can take criticism from another guy, but the second his lady suggests that things aren’t going well, he shuts down. Even if she tries really hard to be solution based and as non-blaming as possible.

    I think when women receive criticism, we might find it difficult, but we often have this ability to adapt and change if the criticism is valid. Most of us want to please, so if something is valid, we want to improve. we want to make things better to reestablish connection with the other person. And usually, we want to do that as soon as possible because it feels terrible to be disconnected from someone you love. I would have to say that feeling disconnected is the WORST feeling for me. I will do anything not to feel it.

    Many guys respond to criticism (from their women)by DISCONNECTING and DISENGAGING, which is the exact opposite of how I think we respond. Needless to say, it’s easy to see why male-female communication is so difficult at times.

  101.  #101Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Meemee: Ahh…yes…that is very much what it was like for me. Not to change the fact that he did it. That was pretty set in my mind. But to change everything before that…when I fell in love. Because I remember being so sickened by him that I wanted to take back every loving word I ever spoke…every loving word he ever spoke and I believed…every moment of laughter that I now knew was fake…everything…I wanted to take it all back and not feel so wrong about my choice in men.

    But there wasn’t a way to go back. I needed him to tell me something to make that okay. To make it okay that I had spent that much time with someone who could rip my heart out so easily. I needed him to say SOMETHING to make that time okay.

    Thankfully, he eventually did and I eventually listened. 🙂

    Much Love,

  102.  #102LD on May 5, 2011 at 6:40 am


    I agree also with some of the things you wrote. (beautiful post by the way) How it is with your family is beautiful and how it SHOULD be. However, not every family dynamic is the same and it is obvious that there is some dysfunction in Steve and Rick’s family. I know in my family it wouldn’t work the way it SHOULD either.

    The point I was trying to make is that it really doesn’t matter WHY Steve chose to care for his brother in his last few months even tough he is also sick and even if it meant straining his relationship with Jeannette. He made the choice and Jeannette can’t MAKE him do otherwise. I’d feel angry and hurt and left out too if I was Jeannette. But if she nags or makes demands on him during this time, she is likely to just push him away or be known as the woman who wouldn’t let Steve spend the last moments his brother had left on earth with him.

    I just feel like if the feeling messages don’t work, then Jeannette has to decide for herself what she is going to do while she is likely to be neglected for the next couple of months. She can choose to leave or to CD herself and friends in that time and keep her vibe up. The only choice she doesn’t have here is to make Steve change his mind.

  103.  #103Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:45 am

    RE 102 Yep. I see it as trying to control the outcome and that will not work.

  104.  #104Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 6:52 am

    Thanks for clarifying LD . I agree with you about CDing to manage any period of “neglect” for any reason.
    You also make a good point about family dysfunction.

    I do think this is a chance for Jeannette to perhaps TEACH these men , one of whom she loves and his beloved brother, how to Be Present when someone is dying. Just by being there and sharing the time .

    Shutting down into lock down seems to be Steve and Ricks way of coping. Its a painful way to do it , and requires physical stamina for 24 hour care (has Steve got this? I doubt it).

    The acts of Loving and caring for a dying loved one are a slow quiet joy in their own way and this aspect is magnified by gentle sharing with family and close friends.Rick and Steve may not have learned this lesson of life as yet , but I believe Jeannette and her casseroles may show the way.

    Hang in there Jeannette.

  105.  #105Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Happy to know that you are recovering. Warm and tight hugs to you.
    At times I also wish I knew things that I know now, I have boundaries that I have now 3 years back.
    But I belong to that group among us who has to go through an incredible amount of humiliation before she knows things for what they are.
    People say lessons learned the tough way are lessons forever. I wish that to be so.
    Wish you a very very speedy recovery and a universe filled with roses of joy

  106.  #106Jim on May 5, 2011 at 6:56 am

    Hey all,

    Interesting post. I don’t watch the show.

    Though your post was enlightening in the comment about switches. Looking back, using that analogy.

    I would have to say I understand timeline, the switch and I’d like to add another- Not having the best words for it but there is an infliction of trauma involved here too. Inflict trauma and the switch gets flicked, survival mechanisms kick on as it no longer feels safe and the fact of most matters is… It’s not safe, thats reality.

    Of course on that note, I suppose there all kinds of things that can turn a person off indefinitely, maybe also having to do with expectations, boundaries, their own perceptions and so forth.

    And really, if she was yelling at him, to say something to make her love him. Well, she set up the paradox in her communication didn’t she. Yelling- Going all dominant, then putting him on the defense in the right now- say something to make me love you. I suppose if he doesn’t have a smart quick answer, she can consider him gone.

    She set it up that way and any thing short of super human or heroism would not suffice in her mind in answering her comment. Say something to make me love you. Then again, maybe they are all in the agenda game, seeking power, self interests. I wonder what it was when they met that he said to make her love him, not to mention over the years, maybe the same thing he said to all the women he did, even her best friend.

    These women are obviously attracted to him enough to do him, even her friend, even she was.

    Maybe by her asking herself that question but first ask herself, “What does my comment tell me about me?” She’s an educated lawyer- right? They are all in the same game, some win, some loose, that’s life- what ever game one finds themselves, they may win, loose or somewhere in between.

    Too bad really, maybe she just didn’t know and really doesn’t want to play. I don’t know.


    Oh well,

  107.  #107Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Maybe it’s just me, but I sensed a good bit of resentment in Jeannette’s post.
    “I am starting to get upset because Steve shouldn’t be that beholding to his brother, especially when he is sick too. Rick is somewhat of a control artist, and it simply pisses me off that he wouldn’t want his brother happy too, enough to let me stop by often or when I want to see Steve.”

    Maybe STEVE doesn’t feel beholding to his brother. Or see him as somewhat of a control artist. Maybe he senses Jeannette’s resentment though, and is choosing to keep it away from his brother.

    Also, not everyone values “company” when they are sick, in pain. Perhaps Rick is one of those.

    I agree with Rosa’s suggestion to perhaps take Steve out to dinner now and then/ go shopping with him if he can get a respite caregiver.

  108.  #108Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:00 am

    I love that!
    My Universe Filled with Roses of Joy.
    I am imaging huge galaxies of Sparkling starry roses.

    Well does fruit count? Doctor man sent me a huge basket of very fine “luxury” fruits, 2 GF’s brought me flowers, vet man sent the cities best chocolates by special delivery , another GF brought magazines..

    I feel loved and special.

  109.  #109Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 7:03 am

    I feel very dull today because I didnt go to gym.
    Is it a good idea at all to gym during one’s periods?

  110.  #110Amazing Me on May 5, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Hello Sirens! It is a blessed day like everyday, I am alive and well. So update with my armyguy..Mercedes, Lily,and who ever else followed my situation..Being so unattached to an outcome when you really hear what the man is saying. Not pushing, or convincing him why your a great catch. If he doesn’t see it or if he is not ready for it, he may lose the opportunity. BUT AT LEAST WE ARE BEING HONEST HERE! I had a great time on Tuesday, I didn’t help much with unpacking, just folded some socks, lol. We went to dinner and had a few drinks, talked about things. I confronted a few issues of things from the past since remember it was almost a year without seeing eachother for his rude comment/s. He said he didn’t remember saying that but if he did he apologized, I was like ok thanks for saying sorry but something that devastated me and you do not remember, WTF! There were things I brought up that he was clueless about or had no memory of. I realized then wow, I was way more into him and invested than he ever was. It hurt at first but though closure is overrated, I felt good about it. He made mistakes, I made some too but I also know what I want and deserve and if it’s not going to be him..I have a future to build and I am moving on. I am at peace to do so because I finally could see this man was not the one for me right now. I am still going to CD andtend to my needs and my children as always. I just feel so much less obsessed becaUSE we want different things and noone can change that. Is what it is, I love being me, I love that I am in touch with me, and I love that I care too much about myself to accept crumbs in my life! Thanks Sirens for letting me vent!!

  111.  #111Leo on May 5, 2011 at 7:13 am

    Hey Meemee,

    I always to sports, even during my period.
    I swim, run, bike, whatever comes to mind.

    If one suffers of cramps during that time, some actually enjoy doing sports, because it often relaxes the muscles in that area.


  112.  #112Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:13 am

    I find it peculiar to be analysing this TV drama as if it were real or as if the characters actions were motivated by anything other than the screenwriters whim !

    I feel bored by this.

    What they “meant” by their words or actions possibly is determined by what the writer had for lunch or if he/she is onto their third coffee. Or just as likely by the angle the camera used or the lighting that influences the viewers “view”.

    This dissection does have value in showing us how analytical we can get ,spinning and chewing over and over stuff in our heads and trying to wring meaning out of it , when it ISNT EVEN REAL.

    Perhaps it would feel slightly meaningful to me if I watched it, but I dont watch this stuff or violent movies either. Real life is more than enough drama for me.

  113.  #113Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 7:19 am

    #112 Rosa

    I completely agree. I’m not interested in disecting “a great exit line” an imaginitive writer came up with for a tv show.

  114.  #114Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:31 am

    87 Lercomari

    I just re-read this post.
    I feel concerned.

    You say you are true blue in love with Techie. You have just realised you have “fallen” and barriers are down. And this happened when you thought about what you really want in the long term and specifically when you imagined him proposing? RED FLAG

    You say he wants to be in a relationship BUT and then the excuses , hes too pressured and busy and something else too complex to tell you… RED FLAG

    I feel concerned that this is an IMAGINARY RELATIONSHIP .

    If you want marriage , the long term and a ring , then you dont have a real relationship until you have a commitment from the man to be in that exclusive relationship with you heading to marriage..and this has been openly discussed between you , he has asked you to be that women who is his in relationship and exclusive and you have accepted this.

    Now maybe I missed something here and maybe you have those things and dreaming of marriage is entirely appropriate, but if not then please read all Roris posts on imaginary relationships right now.

    BEFORE you add to his pressured feelings by spilling too much love onto him too quick.

    Apologies if I have this all wrong but to me it read like you are in danger of a predictable withdrawal by this guy. I hope you are CDing several other men !

  115.  #115Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Thanks Lily T.

  116.  #116Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:35 am

    Good night all .
    Painkillers and bed.

  117.  #117Meemee on May 5, 2011 at 7:39 am

    Good night Rosa
    Sleep tight

  118.  #118Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 7:51 am

    #110 Amazing Me,

    Good for you! I felt good reading your post, so I’m gonna say it again: GOOD FOR YOU! 🙂

  119.  #119tinque on May 5, 2011 at 7:55 am

    kaitlyn – The more you raise your energy/vibration, the more you come out of your present “cloudy” state, the more men and women will come into your life who won’t take on your feelings, fell responsible for them. They will instead take your hand and support you.


  120.  #120Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 8:02 am

    Being the one to suggest meeting in person – even with feeling messages – feels like leaning forward, leading, to me. Probably bc it IS “suggesting” – which Rori says not to do – even though it can be cleverly disguised as FM’s. What do you all think?

  121.  #121Lercomari on May 5, 2011 at 8:02 am

    @ Rosa 117

    Thanks for being concerned and for your reply. Well the love realization didn’t come when I thought about marriage, I just got a warm fuzzy feeling when I thought about being married (which I didn’t expect to feel, so I thought it was worth noting). I realized I was in love with him last night after I told him how I felt about him canceling our date. Before that I had been reluctant to ever let him see me in a negative mood, but after I did, and saw that it was okay and that we could have talks like that without them turning into arguments, it made me feel safe with him and that we could really have a conductive relationship. That’s when I realized I was in love.
    As for him being busy and having other commitments, I can understand that. It’s been about a month since we first met. What I’ve read is that it can take a few months before a guy decides if he wants to commit or not. He’s told me that he does want a relationship with me and I do feel like we’re moving toward that.
    As for CDing other men, I was up until I met Techie and over time I just tapered off the other men. I don’t want to try it again at this point, though I know the purpose of it is to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket and possibly push away the person holding the basket. However is it enough just to take things slowly with the person holding the basket?

  122.  #122Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Jeanette: Hi! (((hugs)))

    I agree with LD. A family member dying is a really big deal.

    I wouldn’t feel obligated to teach these men anything. That feels very masculine to me.

    I would focus on my feelings and taking care of myself and let these men live what is left of their lives as they choose.

    I would explore my own feelings of guilt. Why I am more worried about what my adult children think than following my own bliss. I would dedicate my life to caring for me so that when people do invite me into their lives, I feel solid and clear within myself because only then can I really be there for another.

  123.  #123Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 8:43 am

    “Art imitates life.”

  124.  #124Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 8:46 am

    RE 121 A month is a very short time to fall in love. Guys take more time than that. For the most part my experience is that many guys I know accepted their “one” at the 6 month mark. Many guys get hot and heavy from 1-3 months then they start to back off. I know these are generalizations as others most likely have other experience but I would take it slow.

  125.  #125Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 8:52 am

    I also heard Dr. Paul say that we see characters in movies as us in real life, we identify with characters. He recommended watching Sex and the City to see how what he teaches about personality matches is played out. I have personally seen more about relationships when I watch movies in light of what I learn here and other places. Just last night I was watching dirty dance and noted how the girl melted, when Patrick Swayze came up close to her to kiss her. It seems it just pulled him in. I noted how she surrendered to his leading while they danced. How she trusted him to let herself go and how he stepped up to hold her as she fell back while dancing. It was a really obvious “dance” of masculine and feminine energy to me.

  126.  #126Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Jeannette, I feel a little upset by your words about Rick and Steve. I don’t want people to judge or criticize me when I or a loved one are dying. I feel good about giving incredible grace and forgiveness to people around death and dying. Maybe bc I have had a lot of personal experience in this area.

  127.  #127Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Thank you Rosa and others for your voice. I have thought about this more because it’s not like me to be a jealous woman. I think I’m scared and angry that this is happening to Steve when he’s already so sick. I’m afraid it’s just going to wear him out totally and make his cancer progress. He and I were trying to plan some sort of future, however short, and I know he is stressed out to the max. As someone I love I want to protect him and care for him…..really pretty much as he is doing for his brother, but my hands seemed somewhat tied. I will try and find other things to do in the mean time, CD myself and work on myself some more. But I also believe he should allow and even want me to be a part of things….especially because of my level of compassion toward others. I’ll just have to see how things unfold here.

  128.  #128Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 8:57 am

    RE 107 “Maybe he senses Jeannette’s resentment though, and is choosing to keep it away from his brother”. Very intuitive and insightful.

    I had a friend tell me on Sunday that his wife is learning the round about way that he does not have to be in front of the person or directly looking at the person to be aware of what is taking place. I keep getting this type of thing from different guys. It seems somehow they sense emotions in their body and it seems they are very sensitive to it though it might be unspoken.

  129.  #129Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Anyone have thoughts about 120? I’m trying to make a decision in this area…. Thanks.

  130.  #130Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Jeannette maybe sharing “I feel scared and angry athe devastation that loss of a loved one can create, I fear losing you and feel like I want to protect you because I love and care for you” might be something you could share with Steve. What do you think? That is what I feel in my heart reading your post.

  131.  #131Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Lucy I have seen another coach recommend backleading. I am not sure what the means but I think that saying something like “it would feel fun to meet in person” would be expressing a preference and could be used to establish a boundary. However, you have to feel comfortable asking for what you want for others to feel comfortable to give it to you. If you don’t feel you deserve it they will sense that and might trigger their resistance. I would not recommend doing it until you feel comfortable. You should be proud of what you want.

  132.  #132Sloane on May 5, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Thank you for your openess and generousity on this blog. It feels inspiring. I could use some insight…I feel I took a good baby step last night…
    I have not seen X since saturday when I last left and i had mentiomed I was just feeling low and not connected at all and making myself wrong. I bumped into him on Sunday and it was cordial and then on Monday too.. Both times he did not do the usual which is to ask for me to come over or eat with him.. so I leaned back and did not call text or do anything of my norm.. I felt discarded and fearful that something else was up besides his patterns of hot cold..I did not do anything until last night.. wed..from a good healthy space I felt good and called and just said hi hope you are well.. I’m grabbing a bite if you would like to join.. Of course did not hear.. but again bumped into him while i was eating and leaned back.. I mentioned I called and he said he did not get message.. I just sat back and then when he asked how I was i said ” I feel icky”… i took a breathe and then said “I feel dissconnected”.. that was it.. and he said I will give you a shout. I feel good that I actually used feeling messages.. and still naturally uncertain and anxious.. but I feel stronger.. I just don’t want to lean toooo farrr back and have him slip away.. This has been an ongoing pattern.. I am aware it is toxic and I still dealing with the payoff and all.. But It still feels difficult to lean wayyy back after a year of this pattern of getting close and then being ignored. What do you think?

  133.  #133Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Re 126 Lucy the latter part of your comments feels good to read and I know you are practicing but something jumped to mind that I have read from CCarter and I am asking permission to mention it so I can practice too. Hope you will be okay with it.

    He suggests starting with a positive context with men to open them up and get them to want to listen. So maybe, “I feel good about giving incredible grace and forgiveness to people around death and dying. I feel a little upset by the choice of words about Rick and Steve. I don’t want people to judge or criticize me when I or a loved one are dying.”

  134.  #134Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Lucy: I think it’s perfectly cool to lean forward sometimes and tell a man what you want. In the case of meeting someone in person and not simply haing a “virtual” relationship, if that’s what I wanted, I wouldn’t even hesitate to lean forward and say it.

    I like leaning forward when it’s about what I want though so I might be different than some of the other laides here…

    Much Love,

  135.  #135SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 9:13 am


    I suggested that meeting in person might be a good idea with my guy and asked what he thought.

    He completely picked up the ball and ran with it. He’s been rowing ever since. Did I lean forward? Maybe. Does it bother me? Not in the slightest.


  136.  #136Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Sloane I am wondering why you keep “bumping” into him so regular and if he would feel like it is deliberate?

  137.  #137Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Well Femininewoman, I do feel all the words you wrote….but, after reflecting some here, even before Rick was diagnosed terminally ill, he wouldn’t like it when Steve spent the night with me. One time on the phone he said,”Ohhh Steve,” when Steve called him and said he was staying over. Steve has stayed at my place rarely because his brother wanted him there. He was already sick with congestive heart failure. I understand Steve would want to be with his brother. However, I think Rick has laid some guilt on Steve that Steve is undeserving of. Steve has cancer, sometimes it’s acquired I understand because we’re angry and can’t express our emotions. So the anger turns inward and eats at us.

  138.  #138Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:18 am

    RE 137 I believe you are totall correct Jeannette. Experiencing the situation first hand you can be the only person who really knows. As such Lily T also seems to right about the resentment. The point is to become really clear about what you feel and share that.

  139.  #139Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Also Jeannette Steve has to deal with his own issues. You might be able to inspire him by showing him how you deal with your resentment around Rick laying guilt on him. Does that make sense?

  140.  #140tinque on May 5, 2011 at 9:21 am

    May I tell you all a story about expectations? Having expectations placed on you feels horrible. A part of you will feel angry and resentful. This part of you will want to rebel. You may still give in to your guilt and “come through” anyway, but it feels bad, insincere.

    You could have the exact same situation at hand, but if there are no expectations around it, you will feel good to give, and you will want to.

    Many years ago K was commuting from LA to San Jose for a job that lasted five months. He would leave early Monday AM to catch his flight and come back Thursday evening.

    Valentine’s Day that year was on a Tuesday, and as it so happened, we had concert tickets for that night (we always bought season’s tickets to the LA Philharmonic). Since he was on this job, I was going to invite a friend to go with me, but last minute K decided he would fly down that evening to go with me, be with me, sleep with me that night and go back up again Wednesday morning.

    He came empty handed. I felt disappointed, crushed, angry even. He mumbled something about celebrating on the weekend which I didn’t know then was a way to put me off, appease me if you will. But these kinds of put off don’t materialize.

    I had a “chat” with him that weekend which went over REALLY poorly.

    I ended up letting it go, but the bad feelings around this persisted for a long time.

    Maybe two or three years later, I suddenly realized something. Two somethings actually.

    First of all my energy was full of “what are you bringing ME for Valentine’s”, i.e. expectations. Please reread above about expectations.

    The second thing was that this lovely man had flown all the way back down to ME to be with ME on this day so what WE could be together an extra night.

    This was a really precious gift all by itself. And I had missed it because I had an agenda. I missed feeling good the entire evening because I wallowed in my unfulfilled expectations.


  141.  #141Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Mercedes and FP, thanks. I used to be fine with going for what I want – but am concerned now about doing so bc of the whole masc/fem energy teaching. I don’t want to push him away OR set up a dynamic where I am “the leader” OR diminish his masculine impulses. To be perfectly honest, I also don’t want to feel responsible if I end up not liking him! If he pushes for meeting then I would just be “going along with it” and therefore not responsible. Hmm is this a guilt thing?

  142.  #142Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Oops I see you are back to being FW. 🙂 Thx for the suggestion 133. <3

  143.  #143Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 9:34 am


    RE: #14 – LOL! Me and my bear silliness!

  144.  #144Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:34 am

    And there is a distance involved. Summerbaby, thanks for your input. Was there distance with yours?

  145.  #145Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 9:35 am


    RE: #23 – You said, “Thank you Emerson! Pure feeling messages make a Huge difference. When I was still using blaming language with him, it put the attention on Him – and made him defensive and attacking – instead of the attention on Me so that he could actually see and hear my pain.”


  146.  #146Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 9:41 am


    Re: #22 – “I hope I can be free from that emotional bondage forever and move on to a healthy relationship with myself and a great guy.”

    I vote for YOU! I continue to explore that website you posted about freedom from emotional bondage, and it’s very rich and healing! Thank you again! I am seeing my way clear of some of the remaining Ryan issues that were troubling me, and I have stepped free of his totally subtle efforts to control and entrap me. Finally, finally, my deep confusion and vulnerability from his fake proposal has been replaced with a sense of authority and separateness from him.

    “I am free, I am me, and I’m who I’m meant to be!” ~ Randy Stonehill, I think

  147.  #147Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Thanks Brenda! 🙂

  148.  #148Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Femininewoman, one time 6 mo.s ago. Steve met me at a restaurant. He had tears in his eyes and said, “I think Rick might be jealous of our relationship and trying to break us up.” He called Steve a loser and said why would Jeannette even want to be with you?! Well that set the tone to all of this. I think he lays guilt on Steve, I’m sorry, but this is what I’ve seen. He also corrects Steve when he talks and Steve has little self esteem. I care for Rick too, don’t misunderstand, I just know that there is some dysfunction around all of this. Maybe I should tell Steve, “If you don’t want me saying things about Rick, maybe you should stop telling me what he says!”

  149.  #149Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Whaaat? My comment is awaiting moderation and all it said was “thanks Brenda.”

  150.  #150SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 9:50 am

    I am very curious about the dynamics of relationships and when the “L” word is spoken.

    I’ve been dating Mr. G since December. He’s using more possessive words of late – referring to me as Precious, My baby girl, and several other things.

    I am definitely in love with him. I’ve almost slipped a couple of times but stopped myself short of saying it.

    I am not CDing in the actually seeing other guys sense. I was, but they all sort of fell away on their own and I didn’t put a lot of energy into finding more. I try to be open but my work schedule is so busy that it’s difficult to do much more than cd myself and girlfriends. I do feel like I have a good vibe and I don’t think I put all of my focus on him.

    Is there a time frame for when most guys start to feel it or even admit it to themselves? Should he say it first? Should I say it if I’m feeling it? Should I wait to see what happens?

    Part of me wants to tell him. Part of me is afraid of letting him know, that I would be even more vulnerable. But by the same token, if he isn’t feeling it, I don’t know that I want to stay in it and risk massive heart break.

    Sure am curious of the male POV on this one. Guys, do you want to hear it first before you say it? We are both cautious due to our pasts. The last two times I said it first in a relationship, it caused them to disappear. One came back within days to tell me he realized he felt the same and I ended up marrying him.

    The other never came back, and I’m eternally grateful because after he left I could really see how fortunate I was not to be with him.

    I don’t know if we are on the same page. I never spelled it all out in the beginning because all of these dating concepts are so new to me. I don’t want to hang around and wait forever, however, I can wait a really long time if I know the committed thing is on the horizon.

    I don’t know that I necessarily need marriage. I think I can do the cohabitation thing and would like to within a couple years. I understand the “where is this going” is a bad thing to do, but how do you figure it out if you don’t know and you would like to?

    I guess if I bring it up and he disappears I’ll know that he wasn’t the one? He has said before that he wants to take his time. I’m okay with that, but how much time? Can I ask this?

    I feel much stronger than I ever have in the past. I mean I’m crazy about him, but I’m actually seeing the ways I make life all about a guy and am stopping myself and remembering to be about me and my happiness. I’m not co-dependent like I used to be.

    I am rambling now, so I’ll shut up and see what everyone has to say.

    Oh, I want more opinions than just from the guys, too. Thanks!


  151.  #151Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Jeannette I understand. This however “If you don’t want me saying things about Rick, maybe you should stop telling me what he says!” feels blamey to me.

  152.  #152Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Jeannette don’t know if you have ever noticed it but I have noticed and I feel the same way too, when things are close to home people will tend to talk about it but get defensive when you talk about it. I know I do when it comes to my kids. It’s as if I can bad mouth them but don’t even my own mother dare. I usually feel like fighting and at times cross the respect line to protect them.

  153.  #153SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Lucy, yes there is distance.

  154.  #154Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:54 am

    RE 149 Summerbaby most of the coaches I have read material from say what for him to say it first. When you say the “L” word they hear “you better tell me back” otherwise you are in trouble. Sometimes they have learnt that from their ex.

  155.  #155Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Femininewoman, I know what you’re saying but shouldn’t Steve feel protective toward me also?

  156.  #156Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 9:58 am

    .Summerbaby says” I understand the “where is this going” is a bad thing to do, but how do you figure it out if you don’t know and you would like to?

    Couple coaches says to tell them what you want in your life and the timeframe, then ask if it would work for them or if they have some similar goal for their life. I think Rori advices avoiding asking the question. But you sharing your dream is sharing your standards and I understand from CCater that they find it irristible.

  157.  #157SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Thanks FW, it’s why I’ve hesitated saying it. I just keep wondering what if he’s waiting to see if it’s safe to say it yet? lol, How do you know? Do they ask questions to pave the way or gauge the safety without really asking outright?

    I am such a straightforward person, I would much prefer to just lay all my cards on the table and say, this is me, this is how I feel, this is where I am, and there, now you know.

    Sigh, this would save a lot of grief and wondering.

  158.  #158Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 9:59 am

    140: tinque

    Valuable lesson there.

    I had a similar yet different experience. I think I mentioned here once. Was on vacation but I had this grand plan of seeing everything that “needed” to be seen. Well plans often don’t go they way you want them to. My expectations weren’t being met. I became frustrated.

    Wife and I were walking hand in hand and I was wallowing in my disappointment when she stopped and said, “Can’t just be enough that you are here with me?”

    WOW! Talk about an eye opener. Since then, we have gone on vacations where very little was planned. For instance, we went camping in North Carolina a couple of summers ago. Nothing was planned.

    We had the best time. We just went out exploring and found that natural water slide, the “Cradle of U.S. Forestry,” nice waterfalls, very nice trails, etc… And it was great.

    Expectations are bad because it “sets a bar.” If the expectations are not met, the result is negative.

    Goes back to that movie I mentioned on her a long time ago with Tom Selleck as a lawyer who is getting divorced after 9 years. His mentor/partner has been married for 29 and Tom asked him how anyone can be married that long, because he thought he had the perfect life and yet he’s getting divorced.

    The guy told him “Your generation was raised to expect everything, therefore everything you don’t get makes you unhappy, but my generation was raised to expect nothing, therefore everything we get makes us happy.”

    Huge wisdom there, and just my experiences with vacations backs up the this wisdom.

    Maybe the smartest person in the room is the one who says, “I’m just happy to be here.” 😉

  159.  #159Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 10:01 am

    I think I need to stop dwelling on this matter with Steve, it’s just going to unfold the way it’s supposed to anyway….need to stop fretting and just take care of myself in the meantime. If he lets me in, he lets me in…..if not, well….then I’ll just have to accept and let go.

  160.  #160Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:04 am

    RE 155 CCarter says feelings are not logical. Dr. Paul says men have 3 brains and one process feelings, I forget now which one. Also CCarter suggests it is a bad idea to “dictate” to a man how he “should” feel. Dr. Paul suggests that using “should” shows weakness in your boundary and a desire to control the situation. CCarter agrees with Dr. Paul around the shoulds and I believe I also heard Rori mentioned the same thing about the should in an interview with CCarter.

  161.  #161Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 10:04 am


    RE: #149 – LOL! Dunno, but your “thank you” comment is showing in my world…

    You’re welcome!

  162.  #162Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:05 am

    RE 159 Jeannette I would not consider it dwelling, it is hopefully building your awareness about yourself, the type of person you are, your issues that need healing and what you want in a relationship to feel happy and secure.

  163.  #163Sloane on May 5, 2011 at 10:05 am

    not at all deliberate.. small town. truly. lol.. everyone knows eachother and I spend a lot of time by myself as does he.. I know odd.. but oh well.. often when we do bump in.. we tend to hang the rest of the night.. it’s not about another woman.. it’s his lifestyle and mine. It feels a bit uncomfortable.. but it is what it is. Anything else you feel you would like to add, I would be very happy to hear.. as I do feel like I took some good steps last night. Thank yoU

  164.  #164Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Summerbaby – lol, that’s how I’m feeling about who should go first with saying “let’s meet” – similar to who says the L word first.

  165.  #165Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 10:08 am

    @#83: Sarah

    Something to remember is that men to have NV’s. It sounds like he has them over his divorce. It sounds like some professional counseling might be in order.

    I will have to reread your post but it sounded to me like things are fine so long as you can stay off of touchy subjects, things that make you two argue. But that’s not realistic in an LTR. How you resolve conflicts is one of the keys to having a happy relationship, or at least a workable one.

    I think he needs to come to terms with the fact that, yes, he made mistakes, but those mistakes don’t have to define him unless he wants them to. What he should be concentrating on is identifying what he did wrong, and how he might better handle things. And lastly, forgive himself since we are all human. We WILL make mistakes. It’s how you handle them that defines you. He should start by not lashing out. You can help him in that by setting boundaries, and letting him know that you know both you and him will make mistakes, but that it is how you move forward from them that will define you as a couple. Lashing out when you are hurting or scared does not get you anywhere. He needs to learn that.

  166.  #166Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Rusty – what do you think about the woman suggesting meeting in person if the man hasn’t brought it up after a few weeks of virtual connection (which is not on a dating site – and there is some distance involved)?

  167.  #167Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:10 am

    RE 157 That is how a lot of us are Summerbaby. However, I have learnt that guys don’t all know how to deal with emotions because most were brought up to be believe that showing emotions is weak so they tend to shut them down. A friend in the office the other day told me that as men they act like fools most them times when they are in love and tend to get in trouble. I understand from Rori that as they feel safe with us is when they get inspired to open up and share their heart. I have also read from the coach of Dating without Drama to allow them to do it first and can tell you it feels really great when that happens. I was shocked when my last guy used it for the first time and I had not done so yet but I can tell you that it seems there was tension in the air because I felt he was waiting to hear me say it back. That was my experience.

  168.  #168SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 10:12 am


    See to me saying I would be comfortable meeting face to face was not a problem. He had been messaging regularly and I realized one day that I looked forward to hearing from him.

    So I told him. I said, it hit me today that I look forward to your messages and I feel like it would be fun to meet face to face. What do you think?

    I didn’t have anything to lose. I think guys continue with online conversation to help us reach a level of comfort and some of them look to us to let them know when we are comfortable.

    Some of my guy friends have told me this is the case, but I imagine not all guys are this way.

  169.  #169Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Sloane I mentioned it because I have read another coach suggesting not to inject oneself by going to places that an ex frequents. It could feel like stalking to them, though not deliberate. It also brings up emotions for you and somehow prevents you from moving on, if that is what you want. It also could create an imaginary relationship.

  170.  #170Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:15 am

    RE 168 Summerbaby I have also read Carol Allen suggesting that sometimes the woman is the leader “in the relationship” and the guys look for clues that show we want to move things to the next level. The guy might also be shy.

  171.  #171Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Summerbaby 168 – but then couldn’t that hold true about initiating Anything?

  172.  #172Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:21 am

    RE 141 It seems like a certain amount of lack of commitment to creating what you really want and am wondering if it has anything to do with your feelings around your ex. Especially taking into consideration that he has been hanging around lately. Until you have truly moved on and the space is created it might not be possible to be really committed to finding the one. I have heard Carol Allen talk about women not really putting any effort into creating what they want. They don’t go out, they don’t flirt etc.

  173.  #173Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Then there’s Keith Urban’s lyrics, “If I knew what I was doing, I’d be doing it right now…”

  174.  #174Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:22 am

    RE 171 I understand from Rori that if you feel like a Rockstar and don’t really feel invested in the outcome then you can.

  175.  #175Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Rusty, Lurk, Jim I am wondering what you think about “men are hardwired to equate love with doing and they’ll do anything to make you happy”.

  176.  #176Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I used to rockstar it all the time. But what about the masc/fem energy thing? Doesn’t that get messed up? I like “receiving” and don’t want to spoil that. 🙂

  177.  #177Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Was thinking about the Lyrics from a Michael Bolton sogn “When a man loves a woman she can do no wrong. Turn his back on his best friend if he puts her down”.

  178.  #178Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Also Percy Sledge

    When a man loves a woman
    Can’t keep his mind on nothin’ else
    He’d trade the world
    For the good thing he’s found

    If she is bad, he can’t see it
    She can do no wrong
    And turn his back on his best friend
    If he puts her down

    When a man loves a woman
    Spend his very last dime
    And trying to hold on to what he needs

    He’d give up all his comforts
    And sleep out in the rain
    If she said that’s the way, it ought to be

    When a man loves a woman
    I give you everything I’ve got
    Trying to hold on to your precious love
    And baby baby please don’t treat me bad

    [When a man loves a woman
    Deep down in his soul
    She can bring him such misery

    If she is playing him for a fool
    He’s the last one to know
    Loving eyes can never see

  179.  #179Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Sometimes I wonder if I flirt Too much. If maybe guys feel like I’m interested too much in other guys for them to feel comfortable with me. But I don’t flirt bc of “interest” – I flirt bc it’s fun. Maybe that’s even worse!

  180.  #180Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Lucy I have seen where a coach recommends flirting even when you are married. It keeps your vibe up. When you flirt with your husband, think this was by Dr. Paul, it helps him feel his masculinity. By the way smiling is flirting, is one thing I have learnt.

  181.  #181Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:32 am

    I used to think I didn’t flirt at all – but it was pointed out to me that I was – and then I saw that I kind of flirt naturally without being fully aware of it.

  182.  #182Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:33 am

    RE 181 Wow Lucy I wish I could say that. I had shut that part of me down. I am now finding my flirty girl again.

  183.  #183Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Hmm… if he was someone I was Sure I wanted, I would probably feel comfortable suggesting meeting… So I guess that’s a big clue about what the real issues are, huh?

  184.  #184Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:41 am

    OR if it was someone I didn’t care about “hurting.” But I really like and respect this man.

  185.  #185Mel on May 5, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Rusty, Lurker, Jim…

    Is there a way to reset the switch?

  186.  #186Mel on May 5, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Is there a way to reset the switch? What do the guys think?

  187.  #187Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Oooh but if I fully respect him then I will trust him to be able to handle his own feelings without me being too concerned about them… right?

  188.  #188Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:45 am

    A man wants a woman, and falls for a woman who
    “gets” him. Who connects with his heart. Who
    doesn’t even have to TRY to get to his heart –
    she’s just there.

    Because her own heart is open, and because she
    simply “sees” him

    Men look for sincerity and honesty in women
    they see as potential life partners. A man falls
    for a woman who is herself – no matter what. It
    tells him that she trusts herself – and that she
    trusts HIM – and that makes him want to be with
    her forever.
    ! She got what
    it is about HIM that makes HIM special!

    And not what SHE felt was special from HER
    point of view – but what the man himself values in

    It’s like she could “see” him as he sees
    himself – and she approves and likes the REAL him!

  189.  #189Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Brenda: will u email me?

  190.  #190Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Mel I have read over and over again that guys forget. Also Amazing Me shared how she reconnected above and the guy did not even remember the things she was reminding him of that had disconnected them. Over time people tend to forget what they were fighting over. I have learnt that after giving some space it is usually easy to reconnect if the other person is willing and if we bring pleasant experiences which includes the vibe. I am wondering if it is one reason guys boomerange after disappearing for a while? They miss the good times and then start wanting it again.

  191.  #191Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Mel I assume you get these but I am posting this that you could read just in case

  192.  #192Sloane on May 5, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Thank you..This is not a man I am trying to get over or consider an ex.. he is the man I have been seeing for a year.. It just comes and goes.. weeks spending nights together and then no communication.. it is the pattern. So, I continue to live my life and see him often during these moments of being ignored. Sometimes I reach out as he often feels guilty.. so I have played a more masculine role in the past.. NOW I am trying the feminine approach and not leaning forward.. yet I still wonder .. and have posed this question a few times…How do we shift from the masculine role to the feminine with someone who is used to us leading the way and being the cool.. active role?? I have overworked and am feeling like it is time to let go of that approach.. you know?

  193.  #193Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 11:01 am

    182 FW. I think it’s my natural mischief-maker trait that does it.

  194.  #194Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 11:08 am

    189. In my experience men hold grudges for a loooong time.

  195.  #195Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Not all men of course. But my ex held grudges. And my brother (mo-ped story).

  196.  #196Mel on May 5, 2011 at 11:13 am

    I feel like they hold grudges for a long time too…

    As a woman I feel like I can forgive, but not forget. Sometimes it feels like my husband forgets, but does not forgive….

  197.  #197Lercomari on May 5, 2011 at 11:21 am

    @Summerbaby 150,

    I was thinking about this very question this morning. 🙂 I’ve already predetermined that I would let him say “I love you” first. Because when I fall in love, I know it right away. I can tune myself to it and welcome it and shout it from the rooftops. But men seem to take longer to fall. The point where they touch down is different. Also it’s not as easy for them to express their emotions, so I know that if he’s come to a place where he can openly say he loves me, we’ve definitely arrived.
    I’ve already touched down when it comes to my Techie. I want to stare into his eyes and say it with all my heart, but I will wait for him to get there too.

  198.  #198Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 11:23 am

    I sure do love my life!!!

  199.  #199Mel on May 5, 2011 at 11:23 am

    LG- yay for you!

  200.  #200Daria on May 5, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Sloane – I think it’s great that you used a feeling message!!

    You said ‘this’ is toxic. You said also you are afraid he will slip away… An awful feeling :(. Aww.

    How can I and the Sirens here help you turn this around? Do you know Roris exercise… The control fists?

    Imagine you are holding your fists balled up in front of you. This is control. It’s like you grab him by the collar of his shirt and hold on… But… He can’t get to you through your fists! They are Blocking your body and heart!

    Now, drop your hands and arms to the side. Open your palms, to the front as if you were to receive something. Lean back. Say to yourself receive receive….

    Whenever you start thinking of him slipping away, instead use Rosa stop sign tool – look up sharp to the right, see a big red stop sign for 5 seconds. Then pick a better thought… All men’s energy is waterwheeling to me! I am loved!

    Then open your palms literally and lean back, and say to yourself receive.

    Do this Especially when it Doesn’t seem he’s giving to you. When his back is turned, when it seems he may be ignoring you.

    Do it with all men in the room, all of them waterwheeling to you, around the clock.

    In about a week it will have become easier, and you will get the energy flowing to you.

    Then… Be warm and be surprised!

  201.  #201Sloane on May 5, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Thank you.. I will try that tool. I have done the modern siren and toxic men program.. I would like to take on another.. but financially I want to make a good choice.. what do you think? I like the toolkit idea as it is the least expensive and tools! Thank you

  202.  #202Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Mel 196. I see it as quite possibly a way for them to not take responsibility for their own sh*t – if they can hold a grudge, then (in their mind) everything bad that is happening is bc of “that thing the other person did.”

  203.  #203Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 11:57 am

    202. I am of course not speaking of all men – only those who hold grudges – and this would apply to grudge-holding women as well.

  204.  #204Mel on May 5, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Lucy, RE 202

    I’m not really sure what it is… but it’s weird because he can be visibly upset about something (days after an argument occured) but “nothing’s wrong.”

    It’s like he’s forgotten what made him mad at me, but he’s still acting angry.

    That’s what I mean about forgetting, but not forgiving.

  205.  #205Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Meemee – That’s my letters to Rori and my question – when does the switch flip, is there a switch, is there a re-set button, etc. has been in my mind a long time. This show just set it all up visually for me. I see a lot of everybody’s stories in there.

    And what Daria said about pushing was beautiful.

    I think you’re confused about “pushing,” tho – and for me what I’m saying is we want them to love us, yes? And yet there’s a point, like with X when it doesn’t even matter, there’s no going back.

    And sometimes we just keep pushing anyway. Maybe like Mercedes said, to prove he once WAS that man we fell in love with. But then she reconciled…so I’ve come to think we push because we want to re-birth LOVE….

    And maybe it kind of works sometimes. But the relationship that is re-born is not the relationship you had before, probably not even the same person. It might be better, but that belief in true love…is tarnished.

    And – far more often – we push and yell tell me something to make me love you – and we get slapped, maybe even literally with goodbye. Their flip has switched. You could have 1000 letters about how they’ll ALWAYS love you…and they’re still gone.

    The switch is interesting to me. And what happens after the switch flips is too.

    Anyway, I think your interactions with X were about as perfect as a woman can get. That last scene, if it were in a movie, would be a grammy winner. I never felt you pushed – you walked away. So it’s just an abstract conceptual discussion for you, not something you’ve done I’m guessing….

    and some of us might be right before the man who is going to switch…

    and this might be useful and brilliant – just the question around it.

    I’ve decided firmly I am way more interested in the questions than I am in any “one” answer.


  206.  #206Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Mel, I’m curious how closely-matched your sex drives were the first 10 yrs. During my first yr of marriage, we actually had our pastor come over to do “deliverance ministry” on me bc I thought I must have some kind of nympho dem*n! Now, all these yrs later, I know that I was perfectly normal. But of course I had had to unconsciously manifest some way to create sexual shame, even when married, bc of my long-standing shame pattern. No more! No more shame.

  207.  #207Queenbee on May 5, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I’ve decided to drop it and not get in a huff or ‘fix it’ mode with all the stuff that happened about Easter vacay with HotAmazing man.

    If I had received a break up email from me and reneged in the same week as Easter vacay, maybe I too would have gone alone. Needing time to think and regroup so to speak.

    It may not be the case – but from where I’m standing break up communication really freaks me out.

    I’d rather a person even just stick with it and not renege.

    …And he told me he was going alone. Sorry and he would make it up to me. This is probably more than I would have done if I were him.

    (I’d probably have stomped off and had him looking for me only to mention… 🙂 SERIOUSLY – lol! I need to change this emotionally unavailable stuff :))

    I can see that all I’ve been going through has just been my process… and he’s just been there. Occasionally, my stuff spills on him –

    Got to stop spilling stuff…. more practice needed here … and I’m good… I’m getting better…

    So at the end of the day I could say ‘oh the solution would be that he never invited me!’ But that’s not being vulnerable and open and not controlling a man.

    Or I could get into ‘he needs to explain this better until I ‘get’ it and feel better’… and that’s also not being vulnerable and open and not controlling him.

    it’s just me. My time to EXPAND. E X P A N D Queenbee E X P A N D!

    And I’m loving this!

    I’ve been missing him terribly over the last couple days.

    He’s back Monday…

    I don’t know what will happen. But I can trust myself to stay in my body and in my feelings and be open…

    I can accept that all this has been my process.

    I own it….

    he can choose to stick around and love me or not.

    I can choose to allow myself to be loved in my process or not.

    I choose love. I choose me.

    Love to all!


  208.  #208Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    The other fascinating question for me is in the walk away. I did not do this in part because I didn’t want to be the “bad” girlfriend. Some women clear the whole house out and never look back. Rori said when you walk away it doesn’t matter how it looks.

    So – is the walk away forever, is the walk away a tool, is the walk away something we can do even when we’re tormented by something months ago and have had no contact and may never have contact with the person again. And they’ll never even know we walked away.

    And if we’re still obsessing, and only we’ve walked away….is it still a walk away?

    At what point does one firmly and completely know it’s done, over, fini…..and feel good about it?

    And never again speak to that person they once loved more than – perhaps – themselves?

    Or, is it a walk away when you find the next person to love, even if love for another still lives in your head?

    Do we always and forever love who we’ve love?

    Does love ever die?

    That question has occupied me for oh, 33 years!!

    Happy day, yall!!

  209.  #209Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Jacqueline – in my experience, if a woman is at that yelling point – “tell me something…” – HER switch has Already flipped – so she’s not concerned about flipping his – she has nothing to lose bc she has already lost it all (before this moment) – and there is only one thing left – the hopeless hope that he can somehow pull off a Miracle – in the raging face of her justified anger – and do Something to make her love him again.

  210.  #210Daria on May 5, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Sloane – the heart connection toolkit can really help raise self esteem just by listening to it over and over.

    It seems you need it… Your self esteem is low baby 🙁

    I would not tolerate *bumping* into a man I’m seeing and feeling ignored… Unless I was clear that thus is just practice. That is not feel good stuff, and that you are tolerating it shows me your self esteem needs some love! Heart connection toolkit will help.

    It will help w feeling messages too 🙂

  211.  #211Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Jacqueline: If you can’t respect my wishes, please do not make assumptions about why I did things or how they affected my heart. Especially when I’ve clearly (on multiple occasions) communicated the opposite.

    “Maybe like Mercedes said, to prove he once WAS that man we fell in love with. But then she reconciled…so I’ve come to think we push because we want to re-birth LOVE….”

    I wanted no such thing. Had zero intentions of ever getting back together with him. Nothing in my “push” was to get him back. HE pushed for that.

    “ It might be better, but that belief in true love…is tarnished.”

    Nope. Not at all. As a matter of fact, there are lots of people who doubt what J and I have…they are the ones who can’t believe it’s real (I believe you used the word “desperate”)…those are the people who have a tarnished sense of love. For me, regardless of history…I believe in all love has to offer…all of it. No tarnished view at all.

  212.  #212Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    In short, she is crying out for him to find a way to flip Her switch back on.

  213.  #213Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Lucy – that’s brilliant, and Mercedes thank you for posting every time I post! I will speak about your story as it is here to be spoken of…but glad for your clarification. I don’t doubt your love at all.

    And that’s actually what brought me back – Lucy’s point.

    And Queenbee is a perfect example !!! Love you, Queen!!

    Her man went away, he’s on the edge of flipping and instead he decides he loves her from afar, but then she’s on the edge of walking….no one pushes….and now they’re entering new uncharted territory together. But she – and I could be wrong, Queenbee – ALMOST pushed, almost walked…and now she’s sounding so loving and open armed.

    It’s beautiful and I’m fascinated.

    Love’s like that!


  214.  #214Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    208 Jacqueline. Imo the answer to all those questions is: “whatever you want it to be” – which may be different for different people, and different in different situations. As far as love dying, for me it never does. And I still love everyone I have ever loved – some with more fondness than others.

  215.  #215Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Mel Gay Hendricks has an exercise that he requests couples to do to get their biorhythms resynchronized after arguments so that they experience each other as friends. Can’t remember what it is called but it is an exercise where you sit facing each other and looking at each other for a while without saying anything, you might also be interested in the following:-

    How The Relationship Catalyst Works: The Main Components

    Touch a button and soft music begins. Simple instructions bring you rapidly into a feeling of inner harmony. Feel old patterns dissolve and disappear as you shift into a new state of consciousness.
    Anytime you want to feel closeness and harmony with your partner, simply sit down and plug in to this 20-minute program together. It’s especially useful to restore harmony when you’re feeling distant or rattled after a disagreement.

  216.  #216Sloane on May 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Yup! sounds good to me.. thx!

  217.  #217Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    “and Mercedes thank you for posting every time I post! I will speak about your story as it is here to be spoken of…”

    You’re welcome…as long as you are going to stalk me, I’m going to post back…pretty much every single time…

    and if my story is here for you to speak of it (news to me…but WOW! Ok….) then we may as well keep the record straight huh? Every single time you put words in my mouth and make horrible assumptions about my life (like DAILY) then yes…I will correct you because I’m really, really tired of you spinning my life (and the lives of others here) for your personal enjoyment. You behave like your own life is so pathetic all you can do is make other people’s lives worse in order to make yourself feel better. You are here for other people’s stories (as you put it) because…your own life isn’t interesting enough?

    Whatever works for you Jacqueline but I will not sit back and allow you to spin my relationship in ways that make you feel good about yourself.

  218.  #218Daria on May 5, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Hmm I feel sad and overwhelmed reading many of the posts today. I want to pick up posters, shake them, get the anxiety out of them and new understandings in them and put them back down to earth… So they can act like well programed wind up dolls. 🙂


    I feel angry!

    I feel disconnected!

    I feel left out and stuck out and

    I feel judgemental.

    So how am I judging myself? Do I focus on men too much and not use the tools?

    Occasionally… When I feel needy for company and I lean forward and ask men to spend time w me…

    Which I want to do right now!

    Ok so…

    I am judging them as stupid. I must ne judging myself as stupid.

    Like yes this is stupid.

    You are stupid for calling men.

    Aww 🙁

    I’m sorry Daria.

    You just are.

    Not stupid.

    I get a hint or guess or imaginary idea that there’s something else ‘better’ I should be doing…

    And I don’t want to do or even find out what that thing is.

    Shut down.

    Ok. Here’s more to gently explore…

    Hugs to me.

    What is it that I want to do.

    I want to paint my toes.

    Awww thank you for telling me sweetheart!

    And now my other voice: No! We will call a man, I don’t have the energy to fulfill the stupid wishes of a child.

    Aww. That feels bad. And what is your intent dear voice?

    My intent is to not waste time, to not be Frivolous, because then well be made fun of, vulnerable, put down disapproved of,

    Called weak…

    We have to be strong powerful warriorlike, toned,

    So that people can admire us

    Aww ok thank you. So you want u’s to ne admired… And feel loved and important and special.

    Do you know we are important anyway?


    I do not know that.

    Yes we are important even weak flabby and foolish naive vulnerable like a frivolous lil girl that people talk behind and judge as silly empty headed, bimboish, unworthy.

    Unworthy of respect love, undignified, my stomach feels like turning, and you know we are important even like that even w our stomach turning, it is a good thing!

    So now what if we could all work together, to love us from the inside.

    And share love from other people, but no need to pull love from other people thru approval because we love u’s!!!

    That would feel nice!

    And you can paint lil girls toes for her … And you feel drained and turned off thinking about it and what if that’s like buying flowers for your wife?

    How can you look so that you Want to please lil girl?

    You feel closed off from her? You feel uncomfortable around her?

    Ok… That is ok! It’s great to feel those things,

    So go to her and say hello.



    Umm. What is you name?

    My name is Maya.

    Oh that is a pretty name Maya.

    I feel uncomfortable talking to you.


    I feel afraid you won’t love me.

    Aww. I do love you.


    Hug kiss.

    Aww that feels reassuring a bit.

    And I still feel a bit hard stone cool and closed off.

    What is Your name?

    My name is Lancelota.

    Lol. I feel like laughing hearing that Lancelota.



    Love to all of me!

    I feel safer! I feel more loved. Safer to be vulnerable in front of this little girl who is open to me.

    Thank you so much both of you.

  219.  #219Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    218 Daria. Sorry you are feeling sad and overwhelmed by posts. I feel curious about this. Especially your first paragraph. I feel good and happy and hopeful reading posts today (except a lil bad reading “conflict” btwn J and M – no blame there, just feels a lil uncomfy for me)… so I feel curiosity about the difference in perceptions (which is often a matter of intrigue to me).

  220.  #220LD on May 5, 2011 at 1:05 pm



    Feeling protective of Steve and wanting to care for him, even though he is sick, is going into masculine energy. It is his job to protect you and care for you, and he may feel as if you are suggesting he can’t do that effectively right now. While alot of men like to be nurtured and cared for temporarily for a day or so when they have a cold or the flu, the thought of needing to be protected and cared for by a woman due to serious illness may be making him feel weak. In my experience, making a man feel weak is about the worst thing you can do to him.

    D has the flu right now and I automatically jumped into overfunctioning mode and wanted to take care of him. He refused my offer and then asked me if I needed HIM to do anything for ME. He likes me staying in feminine energy and him staying in masculine energy.

    Maybe Steve feels more manly taking care of his brother or maybe it is a way for him to deny that he may need care himself soon. I say lean back and do what you were doing before Steve and Rick got sick, which if I remember correctly from your posts was you staying more in feminine lean back energy and him being in masculine lean forward energy.

  221.  #221Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I didn’t get the part about belief in true love being tarnished. I would think it would be the opposite – love that can overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles potentially seems truer than love that has never been tried.

  222.  #222janjune on May 5, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Ooh this is such a good post! Thanks Jacq for bringing this up. Wish I could read all the comments…
    I woke up this AM with this on my mind! For me it hits right at the core in so many ways re: how male mixed messages set a woman up, if she’s unaware of her own wants/needs/feelings, or is stuffing them, for what looks like Crazy Behavior.

    First, it seems like she knew along time ago that she should “check out”.
    But she chose to stay anyway despite the red flags he had apparently been sending for a long time.
    She was in an Imaginary Relationship.

    Then when he kept saying what he *thought* would be all the right things to keep the Imaginary Relationship going, ex.: “I want to go to counseling“, etc., and she persisted in seeing the deeper truth of their situation, he flipped the switch on her because he *knew* it was just Imaginary and if he couldn’t string her along anymore or had to work too hard at doing so, he was Outta There.

    My instinct is that she ran to the elevator and said “say something to make me love you” as a last ditch effort at connecting with the man she really wanted to love, and it was her way of telling him what she wanted, “I want to be loved by you, I have loved you and I still could; but it’s over and final for me now too and I’m Moving On unless you genuinely express, in this one moment, something that lets me know that you understand how I feel and that you care and that you love me too.“

    Just my two cents worth 🙂

    Very interesting stuff!!

  223.  #223LD on May 5, 2011 at 1:14 pm


    the above post was hypothetical, not in any way suggesting you are making him feel weak! Hugs!

  224.  #224Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Mercedes your story doesn’t affect how I feel about myself. I’m sorry you feel that way. It’s a good illustration and an unusual and unique one for the blog. After I attempted to write you and “work on it” and your response, I was done. My switch is flipped. There is no relationship between you and I – it’s just another story here for my growth.

    Lucy – I am more in line with your thinking personally…like the still loving comment…

    but what I really wonder about is how if, as the internet suggests…men hurt worse than we do – how are they so much more successful at walking away? They are able to translate into action? to focus their attention to the tv/sports?

    What makes a man able to compartamentalize his thoughts? Or be able to so completely focus that you aren’t in them? Or to have to go away – far away – to realize that you are all that he wants?

    That’s why – to me – they have the switch, and all we get is the walk away. Esp. if we keep the love.

    I feel excited like this is the breakthrough ground that will be able to be patented (lol, not really no triggers! I am so not wanting to be a relationship…anything)…but the puzzle that if solved will grant a lot of us here peace! Kaitlyn esp.

    I probably over identify with Kaitlyn…but I could so easily have gone where she is and it was such hard work to change course.

    And it’s obviously so universal…

    Just very cool!

  225.  #225tinque on May 5, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Summerbaby – Regarding #150. It depends. If you are truly feeling it, and you’re certain this is not an imaginary thing based on your hopes and wishes AND you can say WITHOUT expecting it said back, then yes, be true to yourself.

    If you have any doubts about having an agenda here, then don’t.

    Some men aren’t great with the words. It took K three years to tell me the first time, but then again I’m not so great with saying those words either.

    For me it was an important lesson in learning how to hear him saying it without words, and he said it all the time, every day, many times a day and still does, in his actions.

    If you’re looking for a plan for the future, where is this going, what are we doing, please don’t.


  226.  #226Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Lucy – that’s true and and interesting….more valuable. Except in my experience it’s more like – exactly like – what Jeanette’s saying. When my ex suggested couple’s counseling,et. al. it was just as she described. And I should have checked out much much earlier.

    And when Rori says this: There’s the truth, there’s what you need, and there’s just where you don’t want to be anymore.

    Next time you find yourself working so hard for a relationship – ask yourself – is this how you want love to be? Hard work?

    It took me forever to get this – maybe I still don’t.

  227.  #227Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Mm I feel mad

    I feel angry and invisible and not ‘got’
    So triggered!

    Yelling at this person im my head!

    Feel angry!


    I can feel angry w no blame!

    Feeling angry! Grrrarrrrrr!

  228.  #228tinque on May 5, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    “In my experience men hold grudges for a loooong time.”

    My experience has been very different. Most men I have known do not hold grudges, yet many of the women do.


  229.  #229Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Camile, what about you? Did your switch flip? If so, when? I also wonder if there are mini-flips along the way… a light out here, a light out there… and then finally someone hits the circuit breaker and that’s that. Until it’s not. I think my ex and I both had some mini-flips along the way… and my breaker switch flipped when his secrets came out.

  230.  #230Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Turquoise – yes, that’s exactly like what I’ve experienced. And then you have a “new” thing…if you continue on, and in your case you would have had to continue on. Thank you for sharing…

    and what’s odd to me, too – is that for you it was perfectly rational and what you said you were gonna do…and for him it was over the line. Like sometimes we do things that cause the over the line switch to flip, and we don’t even understand we did them.

    My boyfriend’s home early on this beautiful spring day so I’ve got romance to attend to but I feel happy, and appreciative of you all!

  231.  #231Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Mm I don’t experience men like this at all… No ‘switch’ no finality… Just them always being attracted irresistibly to feminine energy

    I can push them away… I can trigger them,

    But they always return to being attracted to me

  232.  #232Daria on May 5, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    I know they are excellent at focusing, blanking their mind and shutting out stuff.

    But it’s not forever, they will melt around feminine energy, they can’t resist that I R R E S I S T A B L E

  233.  #233Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Jacqueline 224. The idea of a switch is actually not new – it’s been around in marriage therapy for a long time. I don’t think men in general find it easier to walk away etc. – I think for both men and women it is a function of many factors – how much they truly love or loved the other, how badly they were hurt, personalities and temperaments, circumstances, pathology, etc. etc.

  234.  #234Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Daria, are you mad at me? 🙁

  235.  #235Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    I have to agree with Daria at 233. I believe if we are aware we will notice it. I believe that is what is currently happening with Lucy. It is not really every day that they find someone who really “gets them” for them to develop that level of comfort and safety they need in a relationship.

  236.  #236Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Lucy I feel really angry to ne asked about my first paragraph and have all my work on focusing on ME go basically unseen.

    I Do Not want to talk about why I was initially superficially blaming other posters for my feelings.

    I feel really angry to be invited to do so.

    I feel really angry and I feel unclear and confused about what this is about!

    So angry!


    I don’t want to blame others!

    I want to do my process and not Feel invalidated by someone that seems to have missed it.

    So mad!

    Mad at myself for pitting myself in a position to feel invalidated.

    Where is my boundary hole ??


    So mad!


    So angry! So angry! So angry!

    I would like to heal this.

    Wow – it feels really bad to ne asked about the first part of why I was triggered, because I feel ignored on all the vulnerable brave work I did to clarify just that question.

    And I feel like I’m invisible and that feels really frustrating , and awful.

    And in fact I feel angry !

    And I don’t want to feel this way and I font want to take it out on you, because I am clearly feeling triggered about something Else that feels really overwhelming to me!

    I feel so mad and invisible!

    I don’t want to feel

    I feel powerless!

    I’m starting to feel better!!!

    I like this feeling invisible. Meaning I like noticing that I feel that way. Awww.

    Yes I react super strongly when I feel that way yay I am noticing noticing!!!


    I love me!

    This has triggered me hardocre in the past.

    I think it’s what triggers me really bad about when someone asks me something I’ve already said.

    I feel invisible, and that feels really bad to me and I feel desperate.


    And I feel really really Angry! Angry when I get triggered this way… Angry!


    I’m feeling angry!

    Wow I feel scared to share this, I feel vulnerable

    I feel invisible and I do Not want to feel that way!

    I feel angry!

    Ugh OMG realizing how often I feel this!

    I feel so angry! I love my anger!

    Wow I feel scared to connect

  237.  #237Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    One of my beliefs is that men are not built to hold grudges. They always seem to lose at that game. I also see emails that course the internet about that which is the reason it seems like a game to me when they try. I find it so cute.

  238.  #238Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Lucy yes I was feeling angry and now I’m feeling afraid.

    Healing this.

  239.  #239Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    232 Daria. The only time I experienced a man having a “final” switch-flip was when I broke my engagement with M for a fling with another man, and then afterwards wanted M back. His switch had flipped and he was crying in the arms of a former gf whom he ended up marrying. I suppose if she had not been available, his flip might not have been final. But since they’re married…. What do you think about that scenario?

  240.  #240Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Lucy – I think in that case her feminine energy pulled him in.

    I think men are irresistibly attracted to feminine energy, but it cam be someone else’s…

  241.  #241Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Daria, I’m sorry you feel so bad about what I wrote. I feel surprised bc I didn’t intend any of those things you saw in my words. I wasn’t asking you anything – was simply expressing my Own feelings that came up when I read what you had written. My post was about me, not you. Very sorry for the bad feelings it triggered. <3

  242.  #242Daria on May 5, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Lucy – thanks. Im feeling Ok now. I feel glad to explore and heal this ‘right under my nose’ trigger that I wasn’t noticing in my life.

  243.  #243Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    238. Ugh. I feel a bit triggered by that. I don’t think it is “cute” at All when men hold grudges. It feels awful to have grudges held against me by men – for Years and Years! 🙁

  244.  #244Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    #234 Lucy:
    “I don’t think men in general find it easier to walk away etc. – I think for both men and women it is a function of many factors – how much they truly love or loved the other, how badly they were hurt, personalities and temperaments, circumstances, pathology, etc. etc.”

    I believe this is true.

    So much of the talk here today and many days, is about how men are this, how men do that. MEN are individuals. I suspect personality factors more into the decision to leave rather than any kind of “switch”. Some people will put up with alot of unhappiness for a long time–others not as much. True for both genders.

  245.  #245Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    I feel sad that I so often trigger you Daria. 🙁

  246.  #246janjune on May 5, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    i think the comments about grammatically correct feeling messages was on the last post but this issue is thought provoking.
    i have landed on the side of not worrying about whether my grammar will be correct or not, i’m just going to say how i feel for the following reasons:

    if a man was concerned about my grammar when i was giving him a feeling message i would *feel* like he wasn’t getting my *message*. lol
    feeling messages are about communicating to get closer to another person, so, i think if a man knows that this is my intention (based upon my general communication with him and my other behaviors toward him… and my behavior, attitude and words toward/to other people for that matter), he will recognize it as a genuine attempt to draw closer to him motivated by that fact that i like him. and i feel confident that an emotionally healthy man who wants to be with me would be able to find his way through the words to my intent… i really do 🙂
    i *do* think this could easily become a big issue for a man who wasn’t so emotionally healthy and could be used as fodder for an argument to keep the intimacy from developing past the point at which he felt able to participate or reciprocate.
    red flag 🙂

    and finally, I think that i, as the speaker, can always be *either* the SUBJECT and the OBJECT when i am speaking of my feelings to another person.
    so, to me, if i say
    “I feel unheard” i could be stating ONLY how i FEEL, meaning: i *feel* that feeling but i am taking responsibility for it and i know that it may not in actuality be *true/reality*,
    –or i might possibly mean, that the other person may, in fact, be listening very intently to me but that i am blocked from recognizing that fact. both of these indicate “it’s my problem”, not theirs. 🙂
    OR, conversely, i could be covertly stating that the other person isn’t listening, and then, yes, would placing Blame on the other person.

    this whole issue is very interesting.
    i feel glad you brought it up Dorothea.

  247.  #247Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    Thanks Mel!

    I just feel so excited when I see that applying the law of attraction is working in my life.

    Just today, my neighbors delivered 2 cords of wood to my house for free…just out ofthe blue because they had extra. That $500 worth of wood that just showed up at my doorstep.

    And I was remembering how when I first started really applying it, I manifested meeting the love of my life and being gifted a brand new car within days of each other.

    I feel so in awe of the magic and synchronicity that exists in our world. I love knowing that I don’t have to worry about what anyone else is doing, all I have to do is pay attention to my own vibration.

    I feel really happy and at peace with the world.

  248.  #248Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Daria, I would like to offer a hug of good will toward you. (((Daria))) <3

  249.  #249Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Another thing that is really cool about the firewood situation is that I have been very helpful to these neighbors within expecting anything in return and when an opportunity arose, they contributed back to me.

    These neighbors work a lot outside of the home and I work from home. I watch their dog for them when they are busy. And he basically ha an open door policy at my house. If it’s rainy or cold he will come stay with me for the day and then head home when they come back.

    He’s such a sweet dog and having him around is payment enough. Plus I feel happy that my dog has company.

    I feel really happy seeing how everyone wins in the situation.

  250.  #250janjune on May 5, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    LOVING your questions #224, hope you share your findings if you explore them further.

  251.  #251janjune on May 5, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    that is a near perfect example of what riffing accomplishes. 🙂
    (…we need to bookmark that one) 🙂 🙂
    brava daria!

  252.  #252Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    166: Lucy says:

    Rusty – what do you think about the woman suggesting meeting in person if the man hasn’t brought it up after a few weeks of virtual connection (which is not on a dating site – and there is some distance involved)?


    I see nothing wrong with her suggesting it. The question is more one of logistics. Does he expect her to come visit him?

    I see nothing wrong with that if she is just looking for an excuse to go to that location, or they will go to see something she has always wanted to see, that is nearby.

    If he is coming to visit her, will he need to stay the night? If so, I hope a hotel room is being used.

  253.  #253Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    #225 Turquoise:

    In your post you say your husband was “done” over this one thing: you calling the police. But what I see was he was the one doing the pushing. You were separated–so what was he doing in your house in the middle of the night? What was he doing going through your purse? He knew he was frightening you, but he didn’t stop. When you told him you would call the police if he didn’t leave–he didn’t LEAVE.

    He says this was his “last straw” or “switch” or whatever, but it was him pushing for this every step of the way.

    I think some people create, push, and pull their own “switch” sometimes to get out a relationship. And some of them blame their partner rather than recognize/acknowledge that is what they did.

  254.  #254Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    175: Femininewoman says:

    Rusty, Lurk, Jim I am wondering what you think about “men are hardwired to equate love with doing and they’ll do anything to make you happy”.


    I don’t believe that at all. not one teensy weensy little bit. This is often confused for the fact that men ARE inspired to do things for a woman they are in love with. Not much different in how women do the same thing.

    I’ve seen that many times, where when I was dating a woman, in the beginning, she will do anything for you…almost. She will definitely go more out of her way. This is actually very attractive, just as it is attractive to you when he comes over and mows your lawn, fixes that broken drawer, screen door, etc…

    In the beginning she may do many things, such as go way out of her way to cook something that actually takes more effort than cutting open a bag and dumping it in a skillet.

    She may bake something. She may clean your house, or even do your laundry.

    Also, she may be far more willing to do some “guy stuff” for a date. Like buying tickets to your favorite team’s home game and treating you. or maybe a “guy flick.”

    All of these things are things that I had done for me. And there is nothing wrong with any of that. In fact, there is a lot right with that.

    What is wrong is that people grow too accustomed to each other and stop going out of their way for each other. They will often treat strangers or friends better than their spouse. That’s sad.

  255.  #255Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    185: Mel says:

    Rusty, Lurker, Jim…

    Is there a way to reset the switch?


    Can you be more specific as to what you mean?

  256.  #256Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    188: Femininewoman says:

    A man wants a woman, and falls for a woman who
    “gets” him. Who connects with his heart. Who
    doesn’t even have to TRY to get to his heart –
    she’s just there.

    Because her own heart is open, and because she
    simply “sees” him

    Men look for sincerity and honesty in women
    they see as potential life partners. A man falls
    for a woman who is herself – no matter what. It
    tells him that she trusts herself – and that she
    trusts HIM – and that makes him want to be with
    her forever.
    ! She got what
    it is about HIM that makes HIM special!

    And not what SHE felt was special from HER
    point of view – but what the man himself values in

    It’s like she could “see” him as he sees
    himself – and she approves and likes the REAL him!


    That’s pretty good.

    I will admit this, and that men are very visual and likely we are going to fall for a woman hat we are visually attracted to. But two things about that. #1, all men are not going to be going after movie star looks. I’ve been with guys who were single and pointed out girls that were not wearing rings and it always surprised me when they would say something to the effect that “she’s out of my league.” I guess I never thought of any woman as out of my league because of looks and have dated women that were drop dead gorgeous to women who weren’t as good looking. I learned that better looking did not equate to a better relationship. Which brings me to #2, which is, looks will only open the door…it will not keep a man. How you make him feel about himself will keep him or drive him away.

    I’ve been with women that felt they had to play down their being “impressed” with her man. IMHO this comes from a deep seated lack of self esteem. When I talked with them about this, they would usually say the same things…something to do with the man getting too big of a head and not trying anymore…or in some way it was about him getting a big head. I think a lot of that has to do with their thinking that if he learns what a catch he is, he’ll ask himself why he is “settling” for her.

    Problem is, this has just the opposite effect. He ends up feeling unappreciated by her and falls for the first woman who does act impressed with him.

  257.  #257The Lurker on May 5, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    #186 Mel, what FW said in #190. I agree. May not work with all men, some may rather look for another girl, but generally it’s true, imho. Men forget and become willing to try agan. Imho women are less likely to forget.

    Btw, sry, but your comment #100 is much too simplistic, imho. ALL men? And isn’t it rather the FORM of criticism (bitching, drama) that turns them off, than the content? And ALL women react positively on criticism (imho, not even most of them)? Hmm.

  258.  #258The Lurker on May 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    #175 FW, what Rusty wrote in #255. I don’t think it’s gender specific. And I made similar experiences with women who would fall over themselves with doing stuff for me in the first phase of a relationship. Imho it’s simply that love leads you to this, and the fresher it is, the more you do.

  259.  #259Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    229: tinque says:

    “In my experience men hold grudges for a loooong time.”

    My experience has been very different. Most men I have known do not hold grudges, yet many of the women do.



    I agree, but I also think this is just one of those areas where all of the variables will decide.

    I do think men tend to forgive and forget the little things a lot more…most men that is, but then there are things such as a family code of conduct. For instance, Turqouise3 was perfectly within her right to call the police. How was she to know that she wouldn’t end up as a statistic. She NEEDED to make that call! However, his family may have a belief that the one thing you don’t do is call in the authorities to a family dispute. So he may very well see this as a huge breach of the rules, even if he was very wrong in what he did.

    I tend to be not very forgiving when there is loyalty involved. I believe that a man and woman are to be the inner circle, kids just outside of that, the rest of the family and friends in circles outside of those.

    How could I trust a woman who regularly violates the trust by taking sides with people outside of that inner circle against the person in the inner circle? That is what broke me and my ex up.

    What’s sad is that I think with her, that is just her way of trying to maintain being her own person. I think she has an extreme fear of losing her identity in a relationship. So she is constantly pitting herself against her man. I’ve no doubt that she does that to this day.

  260.  #260Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    253 Thanks Rusty.

  261.  #261Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    257 Rusty. I am very visually-oriented too. Sometimes I get flack from women about it. Men usually accept it. Sometimes men even grow their hair longer to try to attract me – even though I never explicitly told them I like longish hair, somehow they figure it out!

  262.  #262Lilybelle on May 5, 2011 at 4:27 pm



    Damn moped story. 😉


    Man, I don’t think I am a grudge holding woman…

  263.  #263janjune on May 5, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    does anyone know how to cook rice? i ruin it every time i cook it, it either has a hard core or it’s mushy.

    i’d love to know a fail-proof way to cook it like it is in restaurants.
    i use brown rice.

    thank you anyone… 🙂

  264.  #264Daria on May 5, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Janjune – I think the grammatical question is that it happens underneath our cognitive awareness.

    So before a man logically or even consciously setermibes your intent, the lower regions of the brain make a decision based on grammar.

    So our syntax has a much more powerful effect than just him ‘knowing’ and deciding… It’s like it’s not ‘his’ decision at all, it’s an automatic decision.

    How hypnosis and nlp work Under the conscious awareness.

    I think even under that, intent is communicated through energy so it would all work out.

  265.  #265Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    257 Rusty. I Love feeling impressed with a man! Oh so much! Do you think there’s ever a point where a man gets turned off by a woman expressing “too much” of this?

  266.  #266Daria on May 5, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks for the hug Lucy. 🙂

  267.  #267Jeannette on May 5, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Sirens, what is the best way to find out if your man needs space?

  268.  #268Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    you’re welcome Daria 🙂

  269.  #269Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Lillybelle 🙂

  270.  #270Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    264: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    does anyone know how to cook rice? i ruin it every time i cook it, it either has a hard core or it’s mushy.

    i’d love to know a fail-proof way to cook it like it is in restaurants.
    i use brown rice.

    thank you anyone… 🙂


    1 cup rice + 2 cups of water.

    Bring to a boil, reduce heat, cover, let sit on low until water is absorbed.

  271.  #271janjune on May 5, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    hi jeannette,
    in my opinion the best way to find out if a man needs space would be to give him some… and see what he does with it, for instance, does he come right back to you a short time later to see what you’re doing or take a time out for himself for a little while.

  272.  #272Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Janjune – I always have success following the directions on the package.

  273.  #273janjune on May 5, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    thank you!
    i don’t know why mine never turns out when i do that (those are the exact directions on my package :):) )
    i thought maybe there was a trick i didn’t know about 🙂

  274.  #274Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Jeannette, in my experience, when ppl need space they either just take the space they need or verbalize it.

  275.  #275janjune on May 5, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    thanks lucy 🙂

    you’re posts sound so happy lately, i feel good reading that you are having such a good time with your family and ex. hugs 🙂

  276.  #276Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    #274 Janjune- rice

    You can try sauteeing the rice in a little butter or oil first. Then use slightly less water than 2 cups for firmer rice. You may also want to adjust the cooking time up or down by 5 min.

  277.  #277Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Open to input: I am realizing that one thing I seem unable to give myself independent of a man is a high physical energy level. When I am “in love” with a man who feels the same, I feel very energized and able to accomplish so much more than without that. Any tips on how to feel more energized without a man? Thx.

  278.  #278Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    OK, which gravatar should I use. I have the BS meter up there. Or I could go with one of my Ohio State ones. Or I have this cute puppy who is says “Who’s awesome? You’re awesome” as he points at you with one paw and winks. LOL

    Personally, I like the BS meter. 😀

  279.  #279Daria on May 5, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Lucy – imaging he’s with me has slowly and steadily improved my energy level. That is, having actual conversations with Guy-Daria.

    Also the Thank yous.

  280.  #280Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    278: Lucy says:

    Any tips on how to feel more energized without a man? Thx


    Try the Atkins diet. You’ll be craving madly for a week, then no cravings and loads of energy.

  281.  #281Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Janjune that feels good to hear. 🙂

  282.  #282Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    holy crap, leaning back has resulted in full-fledged hot pursuit. i’m almost annoyed. lol.

  283.  #283Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    283: Dorothea says:

    holy crap, leaning back has resulted in full-fledged hot pursuit. i’m almost annoyed. lol.


    OK, stop bragging. 😉

  284.  #284Femininepower on May 5, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    RER 279 I like the puppy.

  285.  #285Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Lucy, are you getting any excerise? I found when I started walking a mile or two every morning, or biking for 30 minutes I had energy throughout the day and often wanted more walks/bike rides. Riding a bike was particularly fun–hadn’t done it since I was 16. 🙂

  286.  #286Femininepower on May 5, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    A question Carrie in Sex and the City asks,

    “Why do we allow the one thing that we don’t have affect the way we feel about all the things that we do have?”

  287.  #287Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Daria, I like that idea, thank you! Do you call him Guy-Daria??? I will try more thank you’s too. Rusty, thank you. I am unable to do Atkin’s bc of post-cancer dietary needs.

  288.  #288Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Hehe the point isn’t to brag! It’s to share success and report how the tools are working
    which is marvelously, as usual.
    when the tools aren’t working, it’s cause i’m not doing them “right” or consistently.
    it’s cuz i’m not taking care of me or my vibe.

    i want to help other people feel this effortlessness behind attracting a man you are interested in.

    sigh, <3 u all.

  289.  #289Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    I vote puppy. Who doesn’t want to be told by a puppy their awesome?

  290.  #290Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    lucy, i don’t do atkins, but i do eliminate starches and glutenous grains. i still get carbs through veggies and brown rice. gluten is showing more and more to affect americans with inflammatory responses, fatigue being a symptom of persistent but not serious inflammation.

    i got this diet from a reproductive health specialist to balance hormones naturally. not sure how this affects someone in your situation (which i am fully aware of)

    i like the idea to exercise more too. but it’s so hard to get moving for more energy when you don’t have any to begin with, right? hehe. let us know what you try and how it goes!

  291.  #291Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    eliminating cow dairy is a good one too

  292.  #292Mel on May 5, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Yes, I shouldn’t over-generalize. No one can fit inside a box. 🙂

  293.  #293Mel on May 5, 2011 at 5:16 pm


    Reset the switch as in…

    A guy decides that he doesn’t want to try any more or that I’m too much effort, or that he can’t make me happy, or I don’t know… just disengages for some other reason.

    The switch is flipped from attentive partner to familiar stranger. How can it be reset? Or is it even possible?

  294.  #294janjune on May 5, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    yes, i do remember that point now that you bring it up… had kind of skipped over that mentally i guess…

    to me, though, at least right now in my “development”, i still see it as a red flag to point out emotional unhealthiness if he has not overcome that early conditioning, which we all had, to varying degrees. i believe we can. i want to. i am doing it! i want him to too!
    i want to rise above the gut instinct of things that happened before in my life whether in very early childhood training that i don’t even consciously recall or in triggers that have built up over my years as an adult that i *am* consciously aware of.
    i see those as one and the same (below-conscious-awareness gut reactions programmed into us at an early age and triggers we are aware of on a conscious level as an adult) in terms of the *effect* on a relationship, because they both serve the purpose of separating us from the intimacy we desire to have with another person.
    i want to be able to put and i want my man to be able to put those conscious AND unconscious triggers aside and instead of hearing the *pull* of anything in our past, to just simply connect with each other in that one moment, moment *by* moment, and LISTEN to what the other person is saying and react to that and only that.
    i don’t think we can connect on a deeply intimate level UNLESS we do that– meaning put ALL the old triggers aside in favor of choosing to quit listening to internal voices no matter where they come from that prevent us from having an intimate relationship with another person.
    at least that’s what i’m dealing with in my own heart…

    but i do love that our blog linguistics scholar, dorothea, is sharing these insights because i do think that those issues are things we all, men and women alike, have to work *through* in order to get to intimacy in the first place.

    just my thoughts… 🙂

  295.  #295janjune on May 5, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    i like the puppy too.

  296.  #296Sarah on May 5, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    @#165: Rusty re: #83 – divorced guy

    Hi Rusty – thanks great advice but can you or anyone else tell me what NV’s stands for?

  297.  #297janjune on May 5, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    lily t
    that sounds like it might be the fix i’m looking for–
    sauteeing would kind of lock the grain so it didn’t absorb the moisture as quickly so it could be in water long enough to cook the center thoroughly but not so long as to make it mushy.
    thank you! i’ll try that.

  298.  #298Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    294: Mel says:


    Reset the switch as in…

    A guy decides that he doesn’t want to try any more or that I’m too much effort, or that he can’t make me happy, or I don’t know… just disengages for some other reason.

    The switch is flipped from attentive partner to familiar stranger. How can it be reset? Or is it even possible?


    if he won’t even re-engage enough to go to counseling, or do that talking object thing I have mentioned, then the answer is no, not a chance.

    If he refuses to at least try to work out the problems, then I would pack up and move home with the parents. Even if it is a trial separation.

    If you have a really great job and don’t want to lose that for now, get a small apartment or find a roommate situation. And start dating.

    I’ve always been of the opinion that dating to bring him back is good only if it brings you to the point that the original problem can be addressed and fixed.

    Once he wants to re-engage, then use that talking object method to get to the heart of the matter.

    Also, if this is what Lurker talked about, how he may be using a fake virtual relationship to meet his emotional needs, leaving may be the only thing to shake him out of it. Like I always say, a virtual girlfriend can’t make you a sammich. 😉

  299.  #299Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    297: Sarah says:

    @#165: Rusty re: #83 – divorced guy

    Hi Rusty – thanks great advice but can you or anyone else tell me what NV’s stands for?


    Negative Voices….in your head. 😉

  300.  #300janjune on May 5, 2011 at 5:39 pm


    i agree, no bragging, just results!
    i feel inspried by the results you’re getting!
    please continue sharing them.

  301.  #301Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Amen Lily T . What I am feeling about this post and all the spinning and generalisations and ducking and weaving going on here about this totally imaginary situation from a tv show is that Sirens are all caught up in their HEADS .

    I feel bored with this. I feel concerned about generalizing people into buckets , good bucket , bad bucket , man bucket woman bucket etc. , I dont want a defined , organised , cl;assified bucketful . I want the whole ocean.

    I dont want to understand what a caricatured tv creation of a woman might have been thinking or might have meant. I dont want to polarise men and women by generalising about their “switches” and turning them off or on .

    This sort of study leads to degrees in eggshell walking, in my thinking and opinionated head .

    This posting is not about feeling our feelings at all. It seems to be about thinking our opinions.

    I feel bored.
    I feel uninterested.
    I feel yucky here today .

  302.  #302Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Dorothea and Lily – thanks. I walk 45 min every day. I don’t do nearly as much yoga and dancing as I did before – hard to muster the right energy for that. In fact as I think about it now I realize I associate those things w being in love – they now trigger some melancholy over lost love. 🙁 Used to do free weights for arms but my arms bulked too much so I stopped that.

  303.  #303janjune on May 5, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    dorothea, post 301

    “i agree, (you’re) NOT bragging, (you’re) just (sharing your) results.
    I feel inspired by the results you’re getting!
    please continue sharing them.

  304.  #304Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    OK, I was just kidding about the bragging, hence the smiley after it. 😉

  305.  #305Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    I just read an interesting stat and would like Sirens to participate in a very statistically invalid study just to see how it compares. Here’s the question: Do you prefer your partner to be at least 6′? Yes or no. Let’s try to get 10 responses. Thanks! 🙂

  306.  #306Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    I’m curious about something. What are the age ranges that you women look for as in how many years older/younger. Like a lot of guys will say something like 30 to 43, if they are 40. Just curious.

    Also, if you dated somebody out of your typical comfort zone, why did you date them?

  307.  #307Rusty on May 5, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    I prefer 6′ and under. 😉

  308.  #308Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Thank you Lucy for walking in the park with the dog. Thank you Lucy for getting me a drink of water and putting my hair in a ponytail. Thank you Lucy for typing thank you’s. Thank you Lucy for making two boring phone calls.

  309.  #309tinque on May 5, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Most definitely over 6 feet, and I’m a punester.


  310.  #310Daria on May 5, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Janjune – I have it seems a different understanding of what our lower brain does.

    I didn’t mean that it only brings up triggers,

    But affects our whole perception.

    We have to work with it, because working against it will be well practically impossible.

    When using feeling messages and feminine energy, in a way it’s literally hypnotic, and hypnosis works the way it works whether were committed to being good communicators or not.

    I think were looking at different levels of perception.

  311.  #311janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    would you define punester please? i don’t feel like looking it up 🙂

  312.  #312janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    over 6′ is wonderful. yum!
    under 6′ is just as wonderful.
    makes no difference, it’s simply who the man is that counts.

  313.  #313Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    I knew I could count on you for that Rusty. 😉

  314.  #314tinque on May 5, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Sorry janjune, you won’t find it anywhere. I made it up. Definition: small person as in puny, tiny.


  315.  #315Femininepower on May 5, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    You know what Rosa, I finally see your point and understand where you are coming from. I get it. You know what though, allowing others to discuss it is being accepting of the differences.

  316.  #316janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    if your 305 was about my 301… lol i knew you were kidding dorothea.
    just wanted to encourage her to not feel self-conscious about good things happening to her.

    sometimes on this blog sirens have said they felt a bit stifled about sharing the good things that happen to them because it *might* sound like bragging when really it’s just happiness and wanting to share about the Tools working.

  317.  #317Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    I don’t have a height preference. Previous partners have been under 6′ though. I like “fitting” into a man’s shoulder. 🙂

  318.  #318Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    To answer your Q – I am 48. The youngest I dated was 25 (waaaay outside my comfort zone – did it to be “open to all”), oldest was 54. My ex-h is 56. After a ton of dating I now feel I would prefer a man 45 – 50, but feel open to a wider range if he is a good match overall.

  319.  #319Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Rosa, sorry you feel yucky here today. 🙁

  320.  #320Femininepower on May 5, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    I feel turned on in my body with guys 6 and over especially if muscular. I have over time developed attraction for 5’8″ – 5’7″. I practically feel nothing for smaller.

  321.  #321janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    yes, i think we are too.

    but what you’re saying is fascinating… about the hypnosis.
    i can see where that would be an entirely different way of “experienceing”/processing information.
    what part of the brain is used? the amygdala? (sp?), are you talking about the limbic system being engaged, as in “instinctively” processing information, and not by training at all?
    i guess i was keying mentally on the references made to nuances of behavior we experience and pick up on in our early childhood training…
    you’ve talked different times about women hypnotizing men with their feminine and i *see* that happening. 🙂
    i find myself being hypnotized by masculine, sweet, caring men as well. 🙂 i’m totally charmed.

    i don’t know much about this but it absolutely fascinates me…
    would love to hear more if you have more you’d like to share about it…

  322.  #322Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Daria thank you for feeding yummy food today.

    Thank you for acknowledging the food.

    Thank you for giving me Hydrangea roots extract and noticing hydrangea plants in the store.

    Thank you fir filling out my application yesterday.

    Thank you for taking me out yesterday, and thank you for taking me home.

    Thank you for vacuuming.

    Thank you for doing energy work.

    Thank you for doing EFT.

    Thank you for standing up for me.

    Thank you for wiggling.

    Thank you for taking the bus.

    Thank you for writing for me.

    Thank you for getting me to sleep.

  323.  #323Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Thought I had changed my name back.

  324.  #324Lily T. on May 5, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    To answer Rusty about age range: to me it’s more about lifestyle. I’d prefer a man who’s children are grown, or who has made his peace about not having children. That usually translates to men in their 50’s.

  325.  #325Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Hehe I’m so bad. I was gonna put my vote in for 6′ + bc WH is 6’1″… but then I remembered TN man is 5’10” and that I had thought that was absolutely perfect! Tattoo Man (anyone remember him???) is 6’3″ and that felt Too tall for me. So I’m thinking I should put myself in the No category.

  326.  #326janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    generally 12 years younger, 12 years older is the limit although i’ve never had a relationship with anyone that much older or younger, just dates…
    …so far 🙂

  327.  #327Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Janjune – yes! Yay I feel glad we connect on this.

    I find the slow, rhythmic movements and breathing that happens when I’m in feminine energy hypnotizes a man – and others.

    I also find myself hypnotized by certain man turn on techniques, sometimes (scary one) by a scary type of voice tone that I feel afraid and paralyzed – this my brothers use all the time on girls.

    Or by a powerful timbre.

    Sometimes it can be the way he moves too if it’s smooth a la james bond.

    Back to feminine – it’s naturally hypnotic inducing a state of trance, going ‘deeper’

  328.  #328Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    I not sure which brain part is the main one affected my guess is the amygdala.

    I am curious to learn more about hypnosis too, I bet our blog nlp and hypnosis goddeses have some info

  329.  #329Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Just heard in a movie a woman telling her husband “now I’m feeling left out”.

  330.  #330Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Janjune, I think a lot of the language issue is not “negative” conditioning, but just basic language usage and meaning which naturally affects interaction. E.g., if we yell at a man “Get outta my face you disgusting girly peon” – it will be hard for him to separate a “positive intent” from the meaning of the words used, no matter how enlightened he is – so why not just try to use soothing words to begin with? There’s nothing inherently wrong with conditioning – much positive interaction is birthed from cond

  331.  #331Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    conditioned language.

  332.  #332janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    about posts that feel yucky or uninteresting

    skip them 🙂

    … i’ve learned to just skip them so i can just enjoy the rest of the blog… and others must be getting something out of the convo or they wouldn’t be coversing, so i believe there’s no harm done by just skipping what doesn’t appeal to me at the moment.
    it’s worked really great so far.

    unless i’m processing a trigger…
    then i go for it. 🙂

    hope this helps.

  333.  #333Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    FP, so if you had to give a yes or no response to preferring 6’+…?

  334.  #334Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    I am practicing Walking around w my womb as a crown cup

    And practicing noticing the world from my heart. 🙁

  335.  #335Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Ha ! That sad face came up cuz I feel a bit lonely…

  336.  #336Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    I’m giving a teleseminar next week on Goddeses and feminine energy and using them to practice tools easier…

    I feel… Blank

    Scared excited afraid amazed

  337.  #337Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Lucy how is it going with the computer issue?

  338.  #338Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Even if one person participates, that would feel cool.

    Email me if u want to participate… I’m letting the time choose itself… So nudges on good timing may influence it

  339.  #339Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Lool get out of my face you girly peon!

  340.  #340Femininewoman on May 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Definitely 6. Dad was 6’1. I say my x is from land of the giants 6’3″

  341.  #341Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Dear nvs. I love you and we will be ok.

  342.  #342Daria on May 5, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    I like tall men lately,YUm however I also like short men .

  343.  #343janjune on May 5, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    “Get outta my face you disgusting girly peon”

    i agree. words like that would not work 🙂

    i’m just choosing, for myself, to not get caught up in editing my feeling messages to the point where i’m thinking about whether i’m using a past or present participles when i should be using an adjective. 🙂 i want my feeling messages to flow from my core and not have to *stop* myself and edit the grammar. It feels like stuffing for me.

    *IF* I had the advanced training in linguistics that Dorothea has or others might have though, and the proper grammar for a feeling message just naturally flowed from me as i felt my feelings and conveyed them to my man, i would *definitely* use it.

    …i don’t have that degree of training and specialization in grammar though, so i’m choosing to accept the way feeling messages form within me, *as* me.
    self- acceptance.

    i would be interested to know if there is a quick check method we could use before we put our feeling statements out there though…

  344.  #344Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Thank you LG for calling neighbor back and Allowing the wood gift in
    Thank you for drinking lots of water today. That felt really good.
    Thank you for feeding me yogurt and avocado and cheese when I was hungry.
    Thank you in general for eating lots of food lately, our body appreciates the nourishment.
    Thank you for focusing on good feeling things and caring about how I feel.
    Thank you for taking my boots off when I felt hot.
    Thank you for listening to AH.
    Thank you for smiling at me.
    Thank you for getting that one task I was dreading finished quickly and efficiently. I actually enjoyed doing it.
    Thank you for paying the rent this morning easily and painlessly.
    Thank you for caring about me.
    Thank you for letting me watch the dog whisperer.
    Thank you for staying calm and grounded today.
    Thank you for caring how I feel.

  345.  #345Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I don’t have much of a height preference.

    I do feel attracted to tall guys but I don’t enjoy hugging tall guys. The hug feels weird. He’s bending over, I am stretching up. Feels uncomfortable to me.

    LI is a little shorter than I am used to, only a couple of inches taller than me. Our hugs feel sexy. Our hearts are touching and our sexy parts are pressed together. Yum yum yum

  346.  #346Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Daria: I definitely want to participate in the teleclass!!!!

  347.  #347janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    “Get outta my face you disgusting girly peon” –

    no that wouldn’t work 🙂

    it wasn’t so much the words themselves, i didn’t think anyway, as the nuances of the way the words were used, gramatically, that was in question.
    then daria brought up the issue of processing in different parts of the brain, consciously or sub-consciously, and the difference in how that feels.

    i don’t know, i guess while i appreciate that there might be a misunderstanding if i use as past participle where an adjective should be used, i just don’t want to have to stop and think about it when i’m delivering a feeling message to my man.
    and i guess by writing about this i’m figuring out that i have an expectation that he take “all of me” into account when he’s trying to decode my feeling messages.

    if i had advanced training in linguistics, it might be easier to think about these things when speaking, but i don’t, so i’m just choosing to accept this about myself and say the feeling messages the best way i can at the time…
    i do feel interested to know if there is an easy way to test this begfore speaking though, i think it would be doable later once i get even more comfortable with feeling messages…

    in the meantime, i will definitely not call him a girly peon 🙂

  348.  #348Daria on May 5, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Lg OMG thank you for the affirmation ! Woo hoo!!

  349.  #349Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Skipping posts seems like a metaphor for life and LOA.

    Rather than fighting against what we don’t like or judge as wrong, we can selectively focus on things that uplift and empower us.

    Really, our point of focus is the only thing we truly have control of, IMHO.

    I feel so much better when I selectively sift posts and in life.

    It’s like going to the grocery store. I just walk in and take of the shelves the things that I like. I don’t try to tell the other shoppers that they are buying the wrong things.

    I fwould feel crazy doing that.

    I merely choose what I want an leave. I trust that they know what is best for them. I trust that there connection to the divine is leading them in the right direction.

    They are god’s (meant in the universal sense) children not mine.

    I don’t know what is best for anyone else but I do know what is best for me.

    I feel so free when I approach life this way.

  350.  #350Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Lucy – dang it I hate it when there’s just no original thoughts to be had…it’s really a therapy concept? Well – my experience of it is perfectly illustrated by Turquoise’s story…and Rusty’s example of the circles – I would never know nor get that – for me, it’s me and my bff…and then the guy. I mean we’ve been bff’s for 30 years; I’m not going to censure what I tell her because a guy is in my circle. But it was a great example of how guys think – contextually without you even knowing they have that context.

    and Rosa, I hope you are feeling good today! For me, it’s not about fiction, it’s that the fiction mirrored this thing that’s happened to me and other people and it feels like something important to understand or discover.

    Laughing Goddess I think the wood manifestation/gift is a fabulous gift and so totally feels good! And the notion that you are so so deserving of that gift too…it’s true and it also feels good. Congratulations.

    Oh, and I’m in the over 6′ category – usually 6’3″ sends me… but then my guy is 5’9″ and I must say shorter, thin guys can win in other categories…hands down. Weird phenomenon, that! blushing…

    Still wondering about what makes a successful walk away…my same bff says that when it’s successful you feel nothing anymore. But I think that’s sad. I don’t want to feel nothing.

    But if we give up the idea of closure – I guess I have to default to Rori’s ending statements.

    And…yipeee….money for flood ins. magic, money for ferns to re-populate my drought killed fern garden, and money for going out to dinner. And 3 job interview phone calls – one of which I called back and said I couldn’t consider relocating but was just very cool to even get a call for interviewing….feels like abundance everywhere…

    The limbic system is most heavily influenced by scents, thus aromatherapy…and it bypasses the thinking center of the brain completely – goes straight to the feeling or reptilian brian…something like that.

    So a cookie smelling house sells quicker than a non cookie smelling house, and a vanilla smelling girl is sexier, lol…actually I think it’s pumpkin? but who’s gonna go with pumpkin!

    Sweet dreams on dream scented pillows, everyone…


  351.  #351Daria on May 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Janjune – when I’m sharing a feeling message I Really want to Stop .

    And the find a feeling, the deeper I can get … And Choose my words.

    The Stop pause is part of the magnetism… Ie the hypnosis. 🙂

    I can tell how I’m choosing by how I’m feeling… And then as I’m practicing I’ll suddenly realize I’m at a new level of awareness and depth of feeling.

  352.  #352Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Sorry for the typos and there/their. I blame the phone. 🙂

  353.  #353Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    When I finally got on the phone with my main cd about saturday’s plans, he was very resistant about making a specific plan or at least picking a specific time, and got very defensive. which in turn made ME very defensive. i finally just said i’m feeling weird and uncomfortable and i don’t want to feel this way with you. i don’t like this. and he was like blah blah angry. so we both got off the phone. i went to call him right back and tell him i don’t want my time disrespected and i don’t appreciate the disdain that underlies his possessiveness, but i caught myself before it even rang once and hung up, and i decided to do something to make MYSELF feel better.

    this was a whack interaction but we are healing our patterns. i can tell him when he calls back that it felt awful and i don’t want my time disrespected. when he gets mad about it it feels like possessiveness and disdain coming at me.

    i am so glad i remembered rori’s rules and just took no for an answer and didn’t launch into criticizing him before it was too late.

    though i am feeling totally bored and uninterested by his tremendous resistance to making a set time with me for saturday. he was more focused on trying to come over here tonight for half an hour because he “misses me” he says, but i told him i was busy, he’s asked like three times. i feel so confused…if you miss me so much why not solidify our plans for saturday?

    i am so glad i followed the tools and tried something different from what i usually do. another success story for me! yay! no crying and feeling hung up and desperate tonight. just saying no to what i don’t want.

    this could be a long process with him. at the risk of worrying too much about the future, i hope he heals this as quickly as i wish to for myself, because every time this happens i feel like ewww get away from me man who has no respect. and he probably feels some ewwww too, like ewww get away from me girl who is not being easy.

    i am feeling really good!

  354.  #354T-Girl on May 5, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    I prefer guys over 6 ft but lately the guys I have been seeing are all 5’9″ for some reason. I am 5’3 so that seems to be a perfect height.

  355.  #355Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Ya Daria, I feel really excited that you are doing this. Thank you!

  356.  #356janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    yes, that’s the type of thing i’m really having awareness of right now and it doesn’t even feel sexual it just feels male/female, then it goes into feeling sexual sometimes, but maybe not…

    and i did catch the comment you posted on the other thread about using just your eyes to communicate without flirting at all.
    Yes! i’m starting to pick up on that.
    it can be a flirt or just a look… who knows? at the moment it happens, its just a connection and no more, unless they choose to make it more…

    if you discover more about the hypnosis thing, i would love to hear it 🙂 i think it could also be called mesmerized… at least that’s how i’m feeling about masculine men these days.

  357.  #357janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:16 pm


    what is LOA?

  358.  #358Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Thank you Dorothea for drinking water today
    Thank you Dorothea for eating food that will not make your health worse
    Thank you for getting your navel repierced and allowing yourself to pick whatever jewelry you like without guilt about price or how nice it is.
    Thank you for putting time aside to take care of yourself this evening, even if you don’t end up actually doing it.
    Thank you for making yourself a priority
    Thank you for getting off the phone with that guy who says he wants to go out with you but isn’t making it happen after days of phone tag.
    Thank you for changing your patterns even though you’re scared about what will happen if you don’t choke-hold on for control through your old unhealthy patterns
    Thank you for taking care of your skin today
    Thank you for making room in your work schedule for the last minute appointment you’ve been on a waiting list for
    Thank you for asking your coworker to take on a responsibility you had too much of
    Thank you, girl, you’re so sweet to me:)

  359.  #359Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:20 pm


    the major loves of my life have been
    1. Same age
    2. Same age
    3. 7 years younger
    4. 9 years younger
    5. 12 years older
    6. 3 years younger
    7. 5 years younger

    Seems I tend to prefer the younger guys although I never intentionally seek them out.

  360.  #360Laughing Goddess on May 5, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Janjune: LOA = law of attraction

  361.  #361Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Thank you for being brave and calling your credit card company to complain about their mistreatment of your account.

    Thank you for being brave and calling your new apartment about a misunderstanding with your place

    Thank you for not shying away from confrontation even when it’s really hard. I need you to step up for me so I am taken care of. Thank you, Dorothea!

    Thank you for watching some of the 90 days to freedom from pcos videos and contemplating how to change my health and my life

    Thank you for getting me to work on time:)

  362.  #362janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    daria, #351,
    yes, me too, i’m trying to focus on my feelings before i say a feeling message…

    i think i’m bringing up a twinge of feeling like editing my feeling messages equates to taking care of his feelings… hmmmm, or stuffing my feelings.. so that i don’t say the *wrong* thing….. and that feels bad…..

  363.  #363janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    thanks 🙂

  364.  #364janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    oh, lol
    i just got how skipping posts and LOA are related 🙂

    thank you 🙂

  365.  #365Daria on May 5, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Lg – when you are apologizing for the typos who are you really apologizing to?

    The typos are causing us no harm… I feel compassion for the parts of you triggered by it. It feels a lil sad to see you apologize for a slight change of expression… I

  366.  #366janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    glad you got your flood money.

    “Still wondering about what makes a successful walk away…my same bff says that when it’s successful you feel nothing anymore. But I think that’s sad. I don’t want to feel nothing.”
    this sounds interesting. i think you will find the answer to it jacqueline.

    so in your opinion, is it the limbic system that responds to the maleness of the male, in females…
    and vice versa?

  367.  #367Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    people say sorry WAY too much in my opinion. sorry i went out the same door you’re walking into
    sorry i made a typo in a social forum
    sorry i am walking by you in the grocery store
    sorry we keep bumping into each other in this crowded ass train.

    instead of saying sorry, I say “hi!”

    When people say sorry to me i say “it is OK, hi!”

    i like this much better

  368.  #368janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    “so in your opinion, is it the limbic system that responds to the maleness of the male, in females…
    and vice versa?”

    meaning in the way daria described, the HYPNOTIC-NESS of the female to the male and the female to the male?

    anybody have any wisdom on this that they don’t mind sharing?

  369.  #369Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    right now for me a successful walk away is one where i can stop feeling major disruption in my body, blood boiling, hormones surging, heart thumping, anxiety building….

  370.  #370Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Katarina phang has done a lot of reading on the finer details of male and female chemistry and responses.

  371.  #371Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Thanks janjune and FW for your offerings.

    I was making a feeling observation , no criticisms to any Sirens who wanted to have those conversations about TV characters and what they might have meant or whether it in fact reflects real life.

    And certainly differences are to be applauded , which is why i spoke my feelings and then applauded myself 🙂

    As to hypnosis , yes I know a lot about it and I practice it regularly in many overt and subtle forms when a therapeutic change is sought by a person.

    In pick -up theory several guys make money out of teaching covert hypnosis for use on women including anchoring techniques. Whilst this may help a little if done skilfully, no one will ever do anything they dont want to do that goes against their moral judgment because of a hypnotic command.

    In reality , any voice used deeply ,slowly and repetitiously is hypnotic and can induce trance easily, as too can subtle gestures and instructions like ..(try it in a slow , calm rich even tone, lean on the “relax ” a little..)

    “Sit down , thats right ,
    sit down , thats
    right here..and just relax,
    just relax …
    while i make us some tea.”

    Its easy to induce trance in writing if the person is open to reading hypnotically.

    I have got skilled at making up trance -speak on the hop , there is a lot to do with subtle association of words, and metaphor which engages the unconscious mind.

    The reason i get triggered by Sirens who use strident dark metaphors about themselves is that these are DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS to the unconscious mind to induce this state.

    I regularly remind clients to ” Be Careful what you say , your unconscious mind is listening” .

    The whole deal about language is similar , your brain gives you what you tell it to, either ” an unforgettably horrible and devastating experience” , or a ” good lesson on how to learn to do things different next time”.

    I never tell CDs I can hypnotise them up front as they think its a challenge or else run scared, totally misunderstanding that this is a powerful natural learning state.

    I also ethically never attempt hypnosis consciously on someone i havent discussed it with , though I am very guilty of waking suggestions like ” its amazing how quickly you can feel better after things happen” .

    Wendi friesen does the best online stuff in my opinion , and I was triggered to find stuff on here recently that was pirated copyright material and not even accredited to her. she does a lot of free stuff too if you look up her online tv etc.

    Hypnosis can “occur” all over the brain but the limbic(emotional) system is deeply active . Natural hypnotic effects include amnesia and analgesia and time distortion.

    before hospital or long plane trips i induce hypnosis and tell myself that i may be surprised by just how quickly my UCM will pass the time and how I might enjoy that. I also suggest calm and healing to my body and mind.

    I listen to Wendi hypnosis tracks or Richard bandler or others by people I know or by myself.

    Hey i just decided I might make myself one about Siren qualities …tee hee!!!

  372.  #372Mercedes on May 5, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    You win Jacqueline. Talk about me & my relationship behind my back. “grow” if you will (please). Unsubscribing. Everyone else…you know how to find me. Jacqueline…please show respect and do not follow me to my blog or my email.

  373.  #373janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    i think everyone is skim reading the posts so fast anymore due to the number of posts that typos are rarely even noticed… 🙂

  374.  #374Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    he texted me just now, “hey did you try to call me when we hung up last?”

    yeah i did but i hung up before 1 ring cuz i caught some good sense.. i don’t really feel like texting about this or responding to texts at all. i’m scared. i don’t want to feel drained tonight by communicating with him period.

    i feel confused.

  375.  #375janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    your #349 is really resonating with me.
    have read it three times.
    i’m really getting the parallels.
    thank you for sharing.

  376.  #376Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    i have a degree in linguistics and i could care less about making or reading typos on here. successful communication is the kind that is understood to mean mostly the same thing by both parties. avoiding typos is convention, not communication.

    i DO feel VERY triggered by people who type in all caps or use them ALL the time like it’s going out of style TOMORROW. though, heh

  377.  #377janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    i think you nailed it…

    or maybe some of those things are still going on but you walk away anyway because you love yourself and you know they won’t go on forever…

  378.  #378Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Hi, Dorothea! I just posted on Katarina’s latest facebook link – and it’s about men “doing”…sychronicity.

    Janjune – I’ve read that at the basic level of chemistry if you don’t like how someone smells, it’s never going to work. I think this is true – I was addicted to my exes underarm smell, no kidding. My current’s is good too….

    and us paying a bill AHEAD of time?? first time EVER!!! whoohooo!!

    I think that where I was going with this is that words can’t bypass thinking as processing thought requires the higher frontal cortex thing…(feel afraid to “argue” this…) but also that intention can be felt and words might not be so important then.

    I think it’s like quantum physics – Dorothea’s a linguist – she observes and her observation changes the event. If I am observing I’m not even noticing grammar, unless I’m speaking another language…so other things such as intention change my experience.

    And – one of the most true things I’ve ever read, heard or been taught – is that touch doesn’t lie. We can tell so so much if we listen to our bodies, and how our bodies react to someone’s touch.

    Thank you for listening and being interested,

    and Dorothea, thank you too – I kind of agree with that definition for success.

    And I know what you mean – from last nite – about people who don’t want to brush their teeth….and the only way I’ve found to circumvent the whole I don’t wanna thing is just to focus on the results. I do want to have whole strong healthy teeth – so this is what I’ve got to do to have that. You know?

    You’re sounding good, too.

    Goodnight lovely ladies!!!


  379.  #379Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Rusty – perfect age?

    For me slightly younger feels best,or same age.

    GF of mine said it well , beware the ones who want a nurse or a purse.

    At 51 ,significantly older for me feels like he wants the” nurse” option in a long term relationship. It feels bad to me like he isnt interested in looking after me long term (how can he if hes 15 years older and dead 20 years before me?)

    significantly younger, say less than 43 or so feels like I am doing the looking after or providing the “purse”.
    This feels bad.

    I feel good with men my age or younger who are at a similar life stage to myself and looking for a long term arrangement. These guys are usually consciously wanting to be there for their woman.

  380.  #380Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    i feel stupid and hateful toward myself reading what i said. “i have a degree in linguistics.”

    i feel scared
    “shut up u stupid b*tch, no one cares about your dumb degree”
    “you must think ur better than everyone then huh”
    “*rolling eyes*”

    hey! these are NVs! but my trigger response looks more like fear other people will think these things.

    or rather, other people will see through me to the “truth” which for me is what all these NVs are telling me is the truth.

    but sometimes my intentions are good and i’m trying to use my braniac powers for good and to be helpful to someone or comfort them with some knowledge i have, and instead i come off as a snob. blah, i am not a snob!:(

    i have had a lot of people peg me for a snob and variations of snob that i know are not true. i know me! i am down to earth. i love that about myself.

    typing this out is making me feel more at ease, aaaahh big sigh out

  381.  #381Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    i wonder if my desperateness to show off my knowledge and skills so people can think i’m worthy of respect and love and/or helpful is coming off as snobbery because it’s such a “duh” to people. like of course people think i’m smart.

    or to preface an opinion or fact i know with some sort of credential or qualification…i am scared people won’t believe me if i don’t set it in the context of qualified expertise. a ha! trigger!

    i feel so triggered when someone dismisses something i say, whether it’s fact or opinion or tells me i’m wrong when i’m freaking not! it’s like…how can u just assume i am mistaken or making something up? i am an EXPERT for crying out loud! who are you? blah. ahhh trigger.

  382.  #382janjune on May 5, 2011 at 7:58 pm


    in your opinion, does the hypnotizing effect of a masculine male on a female (and vice versa) happen naturally — as in, do you believe that it is programmed in and cannot be de-programmed? i’m talking about programmed into the genes, not the brain.
    there is probably a better way to ask that question… but that’s the best i can do for now 🙂

    (fyi – i DO, now that i’m noticing the effect masculine men have on me, now that i’ve opened up to them again.)
    i don’t think the men i’m feeling it from know how to hypnotize, consciously, there’s just something about men that i’m allowing myself to feel full force for the first time in my life
    and it feels hypnotic.
    i feel very curious about this.
    it feels wonderful.

  383.  #383janjune on May 5, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    you might want to read lg’s #349.
    it doesn’t address your questions directly but does, in my mind, address it conceptually.

  384.  #384Daria on May 5, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Wendi friesen has some wonderful stuff that works for me…

    I feel sad she’s not versed on masculine feminine siren stuff…

    It would feel fun to see what she would make if Wendi got into Rori stuff!

  385.  #385Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Hi Jacqueline,

    I feel bad and sad reading the hostility toward you on the blog sometimes. I didn’t see anything hurtful about your reference to Mercedes’ relationship. She clarified her intentions, and you accepted her clarification. I feel sad that Mercedes is still angry with you.

    I think you have been a major source of unity on the blog. You have such a warm way of reaching out to people. I love your “shout-outs” to this one and that, the way you call them by name. Before you came, it was very often a cold war zone. You have brought much warmth here.

    From the start when you came here to Siren Island, I felt your virtual arms of love around the women here, especially me! 🙂

    I am finding complete healing from Ryan, and you are a major reason for that. You understand. Maybe not completely, but you know what? You are the ONLY friend to whom I am still speaking about Ryan, outside of Kenny, which is strained, as I already told you. My counselor is the only other person I am still taking my Ryan issues to. You didn’t shut me down, while everyone else did. I was an annoyance to them. I mean, I know it was draining, but it was some very deep damage, riddled with confusion and vulnerability as I’ve never experienced. You encouraged me to be raw and open. Thank you a million Swedish fish for that! 😀

    Heck, Je(sus was perfect, and He had so many enemies that they murdered Him! So who are we to expect all people to like us?

    I know that you have a heart of gold. You have helped me tremendously along the way, and I treasure you!

    Much Love and Respect, Brenda

  386.  #386Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    i can tell him when he calls back that it felt awful and i don’t want my time disrespected. when he gets mad about it it feels like possessiveness and disdain coming at me.

    Could you try a hypnotic twist ..?

    Thanks for calling about our date. I felt awful on the phone but surprised how quickly I felt much better when i considered the options more deeply.

    And considering them even now ..i still feel good deciding..can you too? And I am wondering if you have decided yet?

    That would feel even better still ! And its a good thing to know the right time , isnt it?
    And my time is important to me , as yours to you, thats right…

    So knowing all that ..that ‘s right.. about Saturday ,what do you think?

  387.  #387janjune on May 5, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    nurse or purse, take your pick!

  388.  #388Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Dorothea, many of my friends and one former boyfriend have confessed to me that before they got to know me they thought I was “stuck up” – which is really funny after they get to know me bc I’m really the opposite. I don’t see you as a snob at all. <3

  389.  #389Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Brenda I loved reading that to Jacqueline.

    I dont understand the issues and I confess I skip right over any sirens insulting each other as deliberate sniping practice is not my idea of a healing blog.

    However I want to say that talking out your stuff about Ryan is your right and prerogative as you move through it. I feel concerned that my post to you about the stop sign that you sent to rori worried me at first . You were asking for help to stop pining so i sent that tool to you. I didnt mean it to shut you down and i apologise if it contributed to a feeling of being shut off.

  390.  #390Daria on May 5, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Daria… Type here… That’s right… Good

    Notice that place in your body that knows how to find a thing that makes you feel really good right now…. That’s it good

    That place in your body has a voice… And it’s informing the rest of your body now… Let it happen. Good

    Let your body absorb that information… And now that your body has absorbed that information let your body naturally inform your brain and spirit and aura… Good

    Information transfer is now complete

    Good… That’s right

    Now imagine if you were able to expand on that feeling … That’s right… Allow it to happen

    Let the safety angels of you protect you

    And know that you are lucky

    So lucky , in fact, that you are able to attract people by thinking of them

    Your thoughts comfortably and naturally trigger them across time and space.., to rearrange their activities to spend time with you, and show their love to you

    And this feels good to them… Good

    Let that happen… Let yourself feel the power and love of this state… Knowing you are protected by the angels of safety

    When you finish typing this post in a little while… You will naturally integrate this attractive quality and power into your being… And you will notice it naturally and consistently throughout your day, growing more powerful and bringing you more control in a healthy, fun, holy way

    And this will come into effect at the end of this sentence, now

  391.  #391janjune on May 5, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    “I think that where I was going with this is that words can’t bypass thinking as processing thought requires the higher frontal cortex thing…(feel afraid to “argue” this…) but also that intention can be felt and words might not be so important then. ”

    this kind of brings the whole issue together for me.

    of course…
    it’s words,
    it’s intention,
    it’s background,
    its chemistry,
    it’s dna, survival, programming and more.

    guess that’s why it’s not easy :), so many variables.

    i *would* like to hear you argue your point
    meaning: *present* your point.

  392.  #392janjune on May 5, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    maybe kat will show up on here again.
    i’d like to ask her what she’s discovered about chemistry…

  393.  #393Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    hahaha rosa i LOVE your hypnosis script. it’s rad.

    i will not be manipulating my guy with hypnosis though hehe. i’ll manipulate him the old fashioned way with anger and sadness, thank you very much..

    😛 im joking, in case anyone’s scratching their head about me.

    oh except i have totally tried to manipulate guys with my anger and sadness in some situations. not kidding about that part.

  394.  #394Daria on May 5, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    Dorothea – I wouldn’t say that about time disrespected… I would lean back even more, and let him pick a time for Saturday and bring it up, and if not, I would make plans for Saturday and breezily let him know I’m busy now when he calls to schedule… Or that I’m free if I am

  395.  #395Daria on May 5, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Men are here to make me Happy!

  396.  #396janjune on May 5, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    i’ve gotta go to bed earlier tonight…

    goodnight everyone

  397.  #397Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Thanks Daria!

  398.  #398Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    he’s been doing this thing where he calls late and leaves a message, and then emails me and i find it in the morning, and i write back when i’m at the office, following his lead where he’s taken the communication, but while i’m writing, he texts good morning… then he’ll migrate to text… then he’ll call late and the cycle repeats.

    i wrote back this morning but i guess he didn’t check it and got scared i was ignoring him, so he texts me “i didn’t get your message for a while and i thought you were ignoring me!”

    and i was like lol i feel amused, that’s just silly.

    i feel compassion for him. he might be feeling very insecure and acting out weird toward me in ways that trigger me and feel disrespectful and turn me off. yet i don’t want to be drained or disrespected. hmmmm

  399.  #399Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:27 pm


    Its such a good feeling , isnt it?

    This letting go and getting more
    and the rhythm of it all,

    And all in its own good time ,
    this good feeling does seem to just get better.
    And knowing the man-ipulations
    a wo-man can do ..
    Like doing it differently

    And seizing control of the reins
    (Which Jaccqueline couldnt do ),
    but then she got insurance payment
    after the drought and floods
    and felt even richer than before.

    Dont you too Dorothea?
    Letting go the reins and just getting the rich feeling?

  400.  #400Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    i notice that when i’m holding onto his reins to try control him, then i have no hands left for my own reins to steer MYSELF.


  401.  #401Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    “I think that where I was going with this is that words can’t bypass thinking as processing thought requires the higher frontal cortex thing…(feel afraid to “argue” this…) but also that intention can be felt and words might not be so important then. ”

    In my opinion words totally can bypass CONSCIOUS thought.
    I see words as the programming language of the software loops we run .
    A lot of the software can be short circuited by careful word use.

    Words are the CODES , the script that we can consciously use to change our unconscious response.

  402.  #402Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Crap, I was in the middle of a post and I lost it. It was aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh I hate when that happens…

  403.  #403Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 8:37 pm


    No, your stop sign tool didn’t shut me down at all.

    This website from Alicia is helping me tremendously:

    I don’t wanna talk about Ryan all the time anymore anyway. I am getting serious healing from a sadistic person who was trying to establish mind control over me.

  404.  #404Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    I dont know Janjune about masculinity ‘hypnotising” women. i think its an innate neurochemical response, pheromones etc, and is genetically determined . Research is going on all the time with this.Humans go for body shape/symmetry etc at a brain programed level from DNA codes evolved over eons.

    Hypnosis is differnet to this neurochemical attraction. Hypnosis is about deliberate induction of a trance state in order to influence behaviour or feelings, by bypassing conscious awareness and suggesting change.

    Some men are very hypnotic indeed,ie trance inducing, its their voice, speech patterns , gestures daria mentioned. This adds to the chemical attraction if you find it a comfortable and pleasant experience to be around them. Whether they use their natural inductions to suggest or command anything is indeed the question.

    And whether they do it ON PURPOSE is indeed another!

    I am guilty of the NLP induction of pace and lead though . Very subtle echoing and mirroring of their body language (pacing), gradually moving into non verbal suggestion by taking over the lead and leaning back , relaxing , slowing the voice down etc..excellent to set people at their ease quickly.

  405.  #405Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:47 pm


    Excellent , you can see the pattern of his communication.

    The best way to change a pattern is to change it .

    Instead of texting back , call him,
    or instead of replying by email send a one liner text .
    Pre-empt the evening call with a text or call him at 7am with a cheeky message ,

    Do nothing .
    Do something. Doesnt matter as long is its different.

    I like how you are reining things in that have gone wild and learning to stay in your seat sometimes after you let the reins go ..What fun!!

  406.  #406Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    he had said to me when i told him that i don’t usually answer the phone at 11pm “but you’re always up at 11.”
    No, he was always up that late…and i was spending all my time with him.

    everything i said, he just argued against tried to dismiss it. it felt truly yucky.

    sigh, i’m personally ready to start over and look at him afresh. i can see he is struggling this week with accepting my identity without him, or that i even have one. it’s only been 4 full days of this “starting over” thing…he can have all the time he needs to accept this, really. he just can’t have me all to himself while he’s investing his energy in possessive disdain for me because i’m not available on demand instead of wooing me and making seeing me happen since all he says so dang much that he wants to see me and misses me sooo much he can’t stand it (would be much more rewarding and so much easier). and i can’t worry so much about him. HOLY MIXED SIGNALS

    4 measly days. this is nothing. get it together, dorothea.

    i am just working thru all the anxiety that comes from getting off this toxic merry go-round (which feels awesome even if i’m anxious)…thank you for letting me vent ladies

  407.  #407Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Brenda , thanks for that site, i am going to read it fully later , it looks great.

    I have used hypnosis to help some women break out of emotional and psychological bondage , so much faster than just talking, cause it gets to unconscious motivations. Its wow.

  408.  #408Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 8:55 pm


    Its like a smoothie,
    You are mixing up a new recipe and hes not sure what the ingredients are and neither of you know what it tastes like yet!

    You are adding a bit of guarana though I can see 🙂

  409.  #409Jacqueline on May 5, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Brenda – that’s so cool! I feel happy and good if I’ve helped you, or anyone. Thank you for the acknowledgement and I know you’re too busy with your job to be with us that much, but I miss having you to be silly with! And I’m so excited you are so committed to your healing process. Proud of you!

    Rosa – I missed the reigns thing…I couldn’t pick them up or let go of them…? Or I did let go of them and good things happened? I know it’s made him feel really good to things to make me happy lately – and that is cool. He wanted to go spend the money…let’s go buy YOU something…and I was like nooooo, let’s take a huge load off my mind and pay this bill.

    And then it was a load off my mind. A lot like LG’s happy day day…

    and yes, NLP short circuits the pathways to thought, as does EFT I you’re right. Another way to think about it.

    and now, I’m imposing curfew…

    thank you, Jacqueline, for resting your eyes and saying goodnite and knowing all will be well!

  410.  #410Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    A successful walk away for me is when I leave before I do or say something I deeply regret.

  411.  #411Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Thank you Daria for listening to hypnosis.

    Thank you for meditating.

    Thank you for healing my heart.

    Thank you for asking for angel help.

  412.  #412Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    A walk away for me is when I walk away instead of tolerating something that feels bad

  413.  #413Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 9:10 pm


    That’s cool. Deep change can be so hard to come by, and it feels so good when you can help someone.

    How are you feeling after surgery? I am praying for your healing when you come to mind.

  414.  #414janjune on May 5, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Did I hurt your feelings by riffing through and discussing how I want to and don’t want to say my feeling messages?
    I hope not.
    I’m getting my bath ready and realized you didn’t answer my comments to you (which under different circumstances wouldn’t set off an alarm) and that you were saying things about yourself pertaining to your education and how that might be perceived negatively by others… and since I was riffing and discussing how I want to do feeling messages in a different way than the way you’d suggested, I just felt like I wanted to check in with you…
    what I was riffing and exploring and claiming for myself was *for* me (affirming)
    Not *against* anyone.

    Hope you have a great night.
    I feel happy for you working through your relationship with your MainMan.

  415.  #415Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    honestly i have no idea what you’re talking about…so no:) i’m in happy dorothea land…often really oblivious. awww thank you for checking in on me though. 🙂

  416.  #416Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Ok. I am doing a lot of healing regarding my relationship w my godsister and she calls me now… Out of nowhere.

    And I take the call and I feel triggered, scared and bad

    She talked to me in a tone I perceive as demanding.

    I didn’t stand up for myself.

    I feel my body my side and tummy changing, relaxing as if I were attacked.

    This feels bad… I’d like to heal this please.

    I know her call is a sign it’s healing.

    I feel sad.

    Loving me.

    My sadness.

    I will heal this. 🙂

  417.  #417Jim on May 5, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    175: Femininewoman,

    My answer to that question- Yes, everything within our power.


    That is for a man to know and is men relating to men or women. BUT, Not for a woman to put in her book of knowledge about men. Using this with a man can work to your advantage… Would you really want to do that? There are consequences in “getting, making a man love you.” It’s like sex, you get what you are after, then what…?

    185 & 186: Mel,

    “Is there a way to reset the switch?”

    I think so, depends on the person(s) involved. Depends on many factors I suppose.


  418.  #418Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    I wonder if I will embody that powerful quality of my sister that I admire.

  419.  #419Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    My son told me tonight that he healed his need for eyeglasses by meditating.

  420.  #420janjune on May 5, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    the intensity of the feelings you were expressing
    about your education etc. made me feel worried.
    i feel glad there was no connection…

    goodnight 🙂

  421.  #421janjune on May 5, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    i saw that you had answered about the hypnosis.
    i have to get to bed tonight so will read tomorrow 🙂
    thank you!

    goodnight ~~~~

  422.  #422Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    goodnight to you janjune:) sweet dreams!

  423.  #423Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    I would like two more responses for the height survey if anyone else is open to participate.

  424.  #424Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    I can’t watch Hannah Montana anymore bc the dad reminds me of WH. Lol. I feel embarrassed posting this. I only used to watch it occasionally to fall asleep to when there were no other good choices.

  425.  #425Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    LI was only an inch or two taller than me at most and i am barely 5’4

    long story short i had a hard time respecting him.

    yeah i know…shallow.

    all my other guys have been TALL, at least 5’11 but my high school sweetheart was at least 6’3. main cd right now is probably 6’5

  426.  #426Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    I feel aching in my heart (not about WH – something unrelated). 🙁

  427.  #427Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    there’s ALWAYS something better than hannah montana on. i hear there are some spanish-dubbed blender infomercials on some channels at this time of night, for example, or perhaps jersey shore is on….


  428.  #428SummerBaby on May 5, 2011 at 9:39 pm


    i am tall and i therefore like over 6′. It’s not that I don’t like them being my height or shorter, but I find that they are generally insecure about my height and become insecure when I wear heels and I really don’t enjoy that. this has been my experience.


  429.  #429Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Dorothea, so would it be yes or no to “prefer at least 6′”? Thx!

  430.  #430Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:41 pm


  431.  #431Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    so i called back as my intuition said, not text back

    and now i felt good that i perceived her to be nice to me

    as in she said thank you

    and i would like to heal this fear she triggers in me

    and the sadness

    i love me

    i am healing all this


  432.  #432Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Lol Dorothea. I actually decided to watch Hannah Montana afterall. Hehe. Inner child date. 😀

  433.  #433Daria on May 5, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    getright has called and invited me to hang out

    i am actually waiting on this other man that i have been pursuing the past 3 days lol cuz i like spending time with him… but not pursuing for romance.

    he is the one who sometimes pursues me for romance

    i feel totally not attached

    but i feel good and taken care of *mostly* with this man

    if he covered the *mostly* he woudl have a great shot… 🙂

  434.  #434Nikita on May 5, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    My libido is rearing its head 🙁
    I feel disappointed. I thought I had it tempered down…..then I made out with that boy (man) and now I feel…..almost powerless 🙁

    I think of him… A lot…

    Too many onesomes…and then I feel driven to make more happen……but then I feel shy and nervous…..bcuz here I am planning out this whole relationship and he may be involved elsewhere 🙁


    I have oneitis symptoms……he is always on my mind!!!!

    I almost wish I had never snuggled with him!

    I feel ravenous!!!!!!!

  435.  #435Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Thank you Dorothea and Summerbaby. The statistic was: “Only 15% of men are 6′ or taller, yet 80% of women want a man that height.” Our Siren Island result was 50%. Hmmm. Interesting huh?

  436.  #436Dorothea on May 5, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    lucy, very interesting. i would be interested in pursuing more research like this, and selling it to women’s and men’s magainzes as gimmicky articles… i design polls like this for a living, you may have just given me a great idea to make extra cash!!!

    i’m not a very good writer for an audience tho..maybe we can collaborate!

  437.  #437Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Daria – reading your posts and pondering…wondering if maybe I should do something similar (?) and “pursue” fb college guy for fun/companionship since I’m not really romantically interested in him at this point and he’s not making any moves but may be available to do stuff with. What do you think? (If you feel like thinking about it that is. 🙂 )

  438.  #438Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Lucy ,

    Over 6 feet absolutely .

    All the men in my family were over 6 feet.
    I am the shortest girl at 5’5″.
    My ex H was over 6 feet.
    My two sons are over 6 feet – even the 16 year old..
    My brother is over 6 feet and my nephews average 6 feet 3 “.

    A man around my own height feels like my sister , not like how one of my family’s men feel.

    I date shorter men but they dont feel as masculine to me . Two I am seeing now are under 6 feet , one is 6 feet 3.

    My first ever BF guy who was sniffing around me recently while wanting to get re-engaged to his on and off fiance..well he is my height , and he felt “girly” often to me.

  439.  #439Nikita on May 5, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    And then I asked him for a favor – he said yes but…… He didn’t seem very excited about it….but he was all eager to help me the last time we went out…..he told me to let him know how he could help me! But now I feel like el dorko for even putting myself out there…I tried staying with the vulnerable feelings……and then I felt bad bcuz……well, I guess I have a bf – but he KNOws how I am!!! I don’t “do” monogamy outside of marriage(more on that later)-hello!
    I have options!!! I need options!!!!! But I felt kinda weird…..all horny for one guy but I have a perfectly good cock next to me every night that I show no interest in 🙁

    Sigh…..I want the other cock!!!!!! But then I don’t want to have sex with him without being clear about what it means for either of us 🙁

    And …..what’s even weirder is I think the divine wants me to pursue this!!! And I Do not pursue!!!(that’s not true,I used to stalk.hunt.and prey with much success-but I also totally dug effeminate men……what now???what would mama gena do???)

  440.  #440Nikita on May 5, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    I feel so aroused I even trolled around dating sites looking at boys…..I tell myself it’s just a case of spring fever but…..I think it’s more than that

  441.  #441Lucy on May 5, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Dorothea, that would be cool to collaborate!

  442.  #442Rosa on May 5, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Brenda ,
    Thank you for your prayers.
    You know prayer is proven to help healing ?
    There is interesting research.

  443.  #443Jim on May 5, 2011 at 10:21 pm


    Today was good with N. Good golf and much more.
    I may be wrong but I think she is opening up in that, I think she’s beginning to be herself more.

    You tell me, when a woman can say, “Shut up and hit the ball,” and it makes me laugh, then we laugh.


    She’s begun to get bossy, I told her so, in so many words. She said I rather be bossy than sheepish. I said, “I agree, there’s nothing I hate more than a woman that acts like a pet.”

    So it’s all good, I kind of decided I’m not going to put her up against a wall just because I have feelings for her. If it’s meant to be, things have a way of just happening and I’m all good with that.

    BUT, don’t get me wrong, if asked, I will most certainly take it from there.

    I never got back to some of you and your comments, my apologies. Though they were extraordinary and thought provoking.

    Thanks again,

  444.  #444Daria on May 5, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Lucy – Mmm … You can try it to try to expand your social circle if you want…

    I feel uncomfortable doing it

  445.  #445Daria on May 5, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Nikita – mama gena got divorced… I felt shocked! No wonder after she pursued him initially… Oh… Rori for all

  446.  #446Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 10:27 pm


    RE: #424 – Height: I prefer 6′ or taller, but at least as tall as me is a must. I am 5’8″.

  447.  #447Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 10:29 pm


    RE: #443 – You’re welcome! Oh, I don’t know about research, because no one has to prove to me that prayer helps healing! I know that I know that prayer can do anything God can do! And God can do anything!

  448.  #448Daria on May 5, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    I have in the past regretted my pursuing guys.

    I learn a lot from it then – sumtimes humiliating and painful – then go back to not pursuing it

    Right now I have 3 guy ‘friends’ who like me but they are friends because I actually meet them to hang out.

    Unlike men I date, whom I expect to come get me.

  449.  #449Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 10:32 pm


    Also on tall men…last Friday, I was at a dinner party at a friend’s house, and there was a classically handsome man there, prolly 6’2″ to 6’4″. He had a perfect face, perfect physique, and I found myself staring at him while he played the guitar and sang! I had to jar myself to reality and pull my feasting eyes away! Heck, he’s probably 20 years younger than me! And I know he saw me staring at him!

  450.  #450Brenda on May 5, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    Hi Jimmy!

    Glad you had a good day with N(ow)! 🙂

  451.  #451Nikita on May 5, 2011 at 10:39 pm


    Yeah……funny…I am on iPad and touched something -was trying to close it- and my guys email just opened up and I can access it but don’t…..well it opened on an email from a girl that seems to be really leaning forward on him…..I read it……yup……sure did….

  452.  #452Nikita on May 5, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    So I really wasn’t looking for it but saw it…..I don’t want to say anything to him tho- she was Reeeeeeaaaaally leaned way forward!!!! And pushy…..and pursuing.
    Funny lesson and timing for me 🙂
    I guess she’s my message 🙂
    Too bad.

    But wow! What a contrast!

  453.  #453Turquoise3 on May 5, 2011 at 10:54 pm


    I like the idea of 6 foot, but I’m only 5’2, so actually men 5’9-6’0 work better for me. Mike is 6’0, and even with heels on, it seemed like he really had to lean over to kiss me. I dated a guy 6’4, way too tall.

    Rusty, I think it was you who asked about age. I like close to my age. I prefer to date 2 years younger to 3 years older. I have dated beyond that, and nothing has connected. The youngest I dated was 28 when I was 35, and he was more mature for his age than I’d imagined. It’s just that my kids are such a big part of my life, I need someone who can untimately fit into that for me to consider anything serious. Guys more than 4 years older, seem too old for me.

  454.  #454Katarina Phang on May 6, 2011 at 1:02 am

    Janjune, what about chemistry do you want to ask me?

    Jacq, you are one of the most level-headed posters in here. I think you are pretty balanced, articulate, rational and friendly at the same time.

  455.  #455Meemee on May 6, 2011 at 4:03 am

    Back from gyn
    drinking milk 🙂 🙂

  456.  #456Meemee on May 6, 2011 at 4:04 am

    Friday evening
    Time to go out and eat out with friends
    Looking forward to it
    Feeling happy

  457.  #457Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:21 am

    OMG I was jealous of Christi as flirting style in ‘barcelona’ but now see it was lean forward overfunctioning

  458.  #458Daria on May 6, 2011 at 5:28 am

    About chemistry I couldn’t sleep well because energetically it would get too hot in certain areas depending how cd was holding me. I would get aroused but I didnt want to so was moving his hand away even in the air it had that effect.

    This post is a record of my experience

    I like noticing the energy

    It was a different quality hot, because overall I was not warm I even wanted a blanket

    Turn on my body feels it in a temperature thing thru the air too

    also dog at this house had those lil fleas an they got on me. I guess now I know they come from dogs. My reaction seems milder now to themxx and I’m still the only person to notice feel anything as far as I know.

    Love you daria.

  459.  #459kaitlyn on May 6, 2011 at 5:32 am


    after the gym, veggies and protein are your best bet. dairy isn’t enough protein and it’s very fattening and filled with more toxins than most meat.

    vegetarian option: rice and beans. they form a complete protein.

  460.  #460The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 5:33 am

    #435 #440 Nikita, your story sounds like you’re really in a turmoil. You’re already living together with your bf, but somehow another guy set your heart on fire? That’s a difficult situation for you, for sure. Are you certain your feelings are for real, not maybe partly based on your imagination? It looks as if you don’t know that other guy so well yet. That he wants to do something for you sounds like he has real feelings for you. But you also wrote, he wasn’t “too excited”. That’s a bit contradictionary. Does he know about your relationship? Is it possible he is concerned about ruining it, that he maybe has self esteem issues and thinks he can’t compete on a financial and social level (or in other ways) with your bf? Or that he has ethical qualms about fooling around with a goddess who is living with another man?

    Sry, guess it’s my imagination that makes me interprete too much into that other guy, but somehow this makes some sense to me…

    Right now, I would say you need some time to learn more about that guy, and to sort your emotions out. Also, to get clarity about what is going on between your bf and that email writer (or did I confuse that story). And, yeah, the timing is weird. But sometimes the great director in heaven likes to put us mortals into some kind of a comedy of errors. And then we can only play along as good as we can.

  461.  #461SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 6:01 am


    I was hoping for an opinion from you, Jim, and Rusty on #150 if you’d care to comment.


  462.  #462Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:12 am

    RE 373 Mercedes I am sorry that you are unsubscribing because you feel stalked. Hope you are not leaving forever because I like your voice here though sometimes I have experienced it as a bit harsh. I hope you don’t allow yourself to be bullied into giving up here as I believe it would be just giving into making the blog small. I have seen other displays in the past around other posters such as Erika who eventually gave up. It is sad that this should happen and as I have said before all it does is keep this world small for maybe a select few. I have felt attacked here in the past so what I do now is just skip some posts because my life does not depend on it. Can I suggest to you that look at the constant back and forth as unnecessary so you don’t allow yourself to be bullied into a corner or even responding. I understand that you see some as flaw understanding and I would hope that other readers would ask you a question directly if they wanted to find out something about your relationship. It is obvious to me that the exchanges have not supported your good feelings so maybe it is best to just ignore but for the rest of us who like to read from you we will definitely miss you if you leave. Please come back.

  463.  #463The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 6:23 am

    #463 Summer, Baby, I somehow can relate to G. When I’m in love, I’m posessive, too (even though I try to keep that in reign), and I use words like Gorgeous, my cute lil tease and so. And just like him, I take great care not to say the four letter word starting with “L” first, not even during sex (where it can happen very easily). Because my experiences have been negative. Somehow all of the time I “unilaterally” outed my feelings, the relationship went down the drain. Partly because I start to act like a lovesick fool once I proclaim my love. The other reason is that it puts too much pressure on the girlfriend if she isn’t on the same emotional level yet. Also, I suspect that once a woman is certain she has a guy on the hook, some of the thrill is gone, and the man becomes less exciting. Dunno, maybe G made similar experiences.

    What you can do is giving him reason to trust your feelings are on the same level as his. Return his compliments and niceties, don’t ever make it feel like a one way street to him. And when he speaks about a future, contribute your own point of view, to show him that this is something you want, too. If he’s in love with you, he prolly only needs a bit of encouragement to dare to say so. Give him the confidence he needs to open up!

  464.  #464SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 6:32 am

    Interesting Lurker, because for me, once I feel the love is mutual, it becomes MORE exciting on all levels.

    I do return his compliments. I thank him for them, and I definitely let him know how good I feel around him. My feeling messages are most often good, because that’s usually what I’m feeling. I’ve only had one instance where I shared feeling anger – and most of that wasn’t even directed at him.

    Guess I’ll just keep on the way I’ve been. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it very much.


  465.  #465SummerBaby on May 6, 2011 at 6:38 am

    FW, thank you for posting that article by Tinque on the last blog post. I found it very helpful for my situation here.

    Guess I have a hard time staying in my feelings and tend to migrate back to my head often.


  466.  #466Femininewoman on May 6, 2011 at 6:41 am

    RE 467 Summerbaby I do too.

  467.  #467The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 6:49 am

    #456 “Jacq, you are one of the most level-headed posters in here. I think you are pretty balanced, articulate, rational and friendly at the same time.”

    Katarina, I mostly agree, but, still, J ain’t perfect. The argument with Mercedes on this thread was totally unnecessary, and I have problems with seeing this as a mere unfortunate coincidence. Jacqueline’s a smart lady, and she knew perfectly well that mentioning Mercedes’ relationship issues as an example would trigger her negatively (J even once voiced concern that her own triggers could be used against her, so she sure is aware they can be used as a weapon). After the last argument, when Jacqueline indeed “stalked” M with aggressive emails, a kind of behaviour that apparently led to a warning by Rori, J knew she should better stay away from her. So, I am not sure at all if it was harmless mistake that J distorted what Mercedes had told us here. It may be, but seen in the context of the long feud between both girls, it looks suspicious. Fact is, M and J didn’t get along here, and after this last argument, M has had enough and is gone. Cui bono? Just a coincidence? Hmm.

    Sry, Jacqueline, that’s how I see it, as an outside observer. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt, of course, because you so often contribute positively to the other Siren’s problems. But it seems to me that you’re involved in quite a lot of arguments here. And that’s a bit concerning.

  468.  #468Lily T. on May 6, 2011 at 6:50 am

    New article up.

  469.  #469The Lurker on May 6, 2011 at 6:54 am

    #466 Summer, looks like you’re doing fine. Some guys take longer than others to make the bold step of declaring love. Give G more time, and he will get to this point, I’m sure!

    Btw, how long are you both together now?