The Land Of Mistakes – And The Land Of ?

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rori glastonbury torIt’s so easy to live in the Land of Mistakes.

I can so easily live my entire life there.

I can spend my time considering every “mistake” I ever thought I’ve made, and every “mistake” I think I’m about to make.

*I can live in the place where I think about and mull over, focus on, figure out, try to redo, live over and over again in my mind, feel regrets about, feel guilt over, analyze, and generally try to figure out how I managed to do the “mistake” I thought I did.

*Or, I can live in the place where I am about to DO a mistake.

Where I’m living in fear of making that mistake.

Where I’m living in trying to anticipate the mistake. Working to prepare myself against the mistake. Trying to figure out how to avoid making that mistake. Trying to figure out how to live AFTER I surely make that mistake.

Expecting to make the mistake. Already feeling the fallout for making that mistake.

I can live in one of these places 100% of my life.

And in that moment when I realize what I’m doing to myself it all gets very clear.

All of a sudden it’s like the movie screen opens up in front of my face. The visuals change. The thoughts in my brain – the actual movement in my brain changes.

All of a sudden the visual, mental places (almost like they’re “locations”) where I’m thinking about, and “seeing” either my past “mistake” or my future “mistake” – sort of slide to the “sides” of the “experience.”

It’s sort of like: The mistake that happened “before,” the one that’s now in bright focus and taking up the whole “screen” – suddenly moves to the left of the screen. And, at the same time, the mistake I fear “will” happen – moves to the right of the screen.

And all of a sudden I’m filled with the experience of an empty, blank space in the middle.

I can feel it.

I can feel this empty space.

The space is just sitting there, bookended by “mistakes.”

And all of a sudden I realize: I have absolutely no idea what constitutes a “mistake.”

I look back on what I am focusing on as a mistake, and realize that I have no way near any ability to “judge” whether or not that actually WAS a mistake. Whatever a “mistake” is, anyway.

I cannot possibly know what was a mistake and what wasn’t – because I have no way of knowing what the trajectory of my life is supposed to look like.

In a sense, it’s none of my business.

Just like how what’s going on in my man’s head is none of my business.

Yes, I may feel curious about it. Yes, I may feel compassionate about his discomfort. Yes, I most certainly feel compassionate about my own discomfort.

But… “mistake”?

Truly…who am I to say?

So, I look to the right of my mental “screen,” to the right of this big ole empty space. And I see, totally clearly, that what is “to come” is also none of my business.

Yes, I can plan. I can prepare. I can worry. I can avoid. I can go forward into. I can do all kinds of things (and what drives me to do these things of talk about a little later…) – But, essentially, I lack discernment about what all this means.

I do not have the power to tell whether something was, is, or will be a “mistake.”

AND – I notice that my attention and focus is following, so kindly and gently and lovingly, whatever I’m looking at on my mental screen. Whatever I’m thinking about.

It’s like my whole mind and body is an amplifier. Whatever I choose to look at gets “fed” even MORE energy.

So – what about this “empty space”? How do I feed THAT?!

What is it anyway, this empty space – except, well…”empty”?

How do I live IN it?

Simple. I just do!

Yes, SO cliched (“Just DO it!”), and, yet, I can’t find any other way to describe it except as a simple choice in the moment I make that choice.

Because, there’s no time for “figure out.” There’s no way TO “figure out.”

The truth is – I have absolutely no way, no magical power to understand what this empty space is.

To me, it’s terrifying. To me, it’s the total “unknown.” The total “?”

It’s a place where I have no control. No discernment. No way to judge. No basis on which to analyze. Not even a real hot sense of good and bad.

Pain And Fear – My Hidden Mental Mantra Habit

If you were to ask me in person, I would always tell you that the thing I fear most is pain.

Slipping away out of this life is one thing, but pain is something I’ve experienced and know how to experience.

I know what a headache feels like. I know what it feels like when I slam my finger in a car door. I know what illness feels like. I know what rejection feels like. I know what a broken heart feels like.

I basically understand sensation. I know how to experience feelings.

The only thing that I don’t have – is the ability to put all of these experiences into “context.”

I don’t have any way to say that what’s in this empty, terrifying, unknown space between the bookends of my “mistakes” is actually going to cause pain.

In other words, I’m choosing to equate “unknown” with “pain.”

I am choosing to make “no control” equal “pain.”

If I can’t analyze it, if I can’t quantify it as some kind of a mistake to avoid, I feel like I’m sucked into a vortex of potential pain.

Okay, so why do I – and you, if you’re anything like me – automatically say that unknown equals pain?

And here’s my answer: Habit.

How simple this is! Over my whole life, I’ve created habits of assuming that unknown equals pain.

Therefore, I have spent my life, and would continue to spend my life if I don’t change my habits, living from a guess.

This guess is what runs my life.

This guess says that the “default” of my life is pain, and that I am destined to make mistakes, the way I have always made mistakes, that will eventually lead me to pain.

Wow.

So, no wonder living in this Empty Space in-between the Lands Of Mistakes feels so weird.

And… I discover, as I breathe into this empty space and see it in front of me, feel it around me – everything shifts.

All of a sudden this empty space feels colorful.

This empty space feels fun.

It’s not so scary.

It feels like tickling my cat’s ears without thinking about anything else.

It feels like the moment got longer.

Feels like sort of floating in the moment.

And if I can stay here long enough – something else magical happens.

If I stay here long enough – hey, maybe just a few seconds even – all of a sudden the empty space doesn’t feel so scary.

It feels kind of… Warm.

It feels kind of… Homey.

It feels like I belong here.

Mistakes feel very far away. Sort of fuzzy.

It’s sort of like going from a “long shot” to a “close-up.”

I tend to live my life in long shots – long shot pictures in my head.

This close-up, this unknown moment I’m floating in, feels real.

I actually feel like taking another step forward into another moment – just like this moment. I actually feel like that will be okay.

Wait – actually, it doesn’t even feel like “another moment.”

It feels like THIS moment, just that it sort of keeps going, on and on….

Mistake Land seems further and further away.

All of a sudden, I don’t even want to go there.

Now that’s new.

I don’t even want to go there.

That me know how hanging out in your empty space feels to you. And we can all help each other hang there.

Love, Rori

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134 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on November 25, 2013 at 7:16 am

    “And all of a sudden I realize: I have absolutely no idea what constitutes a “mistake.”



  2.  #2Cris on November 25, 2013 at 7:21 am

    Thanks Rori… it seems that it is my journey also. Involved in so relaxing way of see life and so hard at the same time. I could live in that place all my life also, but I choose to go out. 🙂



  3.  #3Iris on November 25, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Great post! So much imagery. As I read this post, the pictures forming in my mind helped me feel connected to its words.

    At this point, the empty space feels cold. But it also feels like jumping into a pool of water that takes awhile to get adjusted to; and as soon as you do, it feels fun swimming around.



  4.  #4Lisa on November 25, 2013 at 10:15 am

    @April Rose Thanks for the response on the other post…. I chose not to go… and I felt good about it… and it worked beautifully when he arrived to pick me up…. he was so attentive and affectionate… he got a chance to miss me…

    After my feeling messages the other night of being triggered he ask me what I needed and I said, I need to be dated… and he said, I’d love to do that… more with you… and he did, actually very well…last night…

    So, after dinner at my house… we were talking and with this man it is actually is a two sided thing… he listens to me intently… and Siren’s I’ve never experienced this before…. he was talking about he loves how I have a way of ventilating outside of doing it with him and that makes it feel so safe for him, as a man… and I told him how easy it was to be vulnerable with him that second date ( I got triggered and I did The Work on it before our date) and I was so open and with no agenda on my mind…( he noticed it) that I told him ” I’m afraid of being loved” and he looked me in the eye and really took that in… with such respect and love… and I told him how that made me FEEL and Ladies… I watched this man have a tear come from his eye and he said ” I just feel in love with you”… my heart just opened wide just now… I can’t tell you how amazing it was to witness him falling for me.. in that moment….he realized it right in front of me…

    ( no sex yet) but we are messing around lots… it’s been fun…

    and this morning I took his wallet to him he left it at my house… I had to run errands and pick up my child… and while I was there he told me ” I love you”… and he began to tell me all the reason’s he loves me…

    I’m trying to take it all in….and my mind has been on board until last night and I wanted to run… I get it now… how what Rori said is true…I had been wanting crumbs… and now that crumbs aren’t there and there is a cake in front of me… I wanted to run… I noticed my mind wanting to find reasons to run…

    I’m not there yet with being able to say “I love you”.. and that’s ok… he said it isn’t conditional… and I noticed when I read the last post or the one before it can’t remember how it is about how i feel about me in his presence and I noticed today, I feel so good about me in his presence … I feel free to be me… and I feel cherished and loved and revered… and natural…

    and I wish this crumb catcher inside of me would shut up…!!!

    He doesn’t give to get… he gives to me b/c he loves to….that feels good…

    and why do I feel so weird….?? I would have to say b/c I’m on a new planet.. maybe this is all new to me… ??? I don’t know…

    OXOXO



  5.  #5April Rose on November 25, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Hmmm,
    Pondering on Rori’s article……
    Living in the habit of trying to avoid mistakes… hmmm….yes. I avoid pain at all costs.

    But mistakes?….
    Is that why I am not yet flying high in a fantastic career? Because I’ll have to make mistakes to get there? And I’m avoiding making them?

    I want my motivation to be FUN. I want to be driven by the search for fun. Not the avoidance of the bad-feeling stuff.



  6.  #6Indigo on November 25, 2013 at 11:32 am

    (This was for Andrea in the other thread)

    Andrea,

    I’ve had experience with guys like that, and my feelings were very much the same as yours…

    I might just continuously respond with something flirtatious and non-committal such as “you should be so lucky ;)” or “wouldn’t that be lovely? I have plans though” or of course just a simple ” 🙂 ” or ” 😉 ”

    I’d get bored very quickly though, but it would be interesting to see if you leaned back for a long time, if he would eventually ask you out?



  7.  #7redbutterfly on November 25, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Lisa, I am so happy to hear about your amazing date! You have done so much work and you totally deserve it!!



  8.  #8Lisa on November 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    @Redbutterfly Aww Thanks so much! <3 That feels nice… it does feel good to really know now that I do deserve it… thanks for that!!!!

    OXOXO



  9.  #9Iris on November 25, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Lisa,

    Thank you for sharing. I too now realize how scared I am to be loved. I feel relieved to know I am not the only one experiencing it. I have been battling my own Nasty Voice. Inside, I hear the voice saying, “There’s something wrong with you because you’re scared to love.”

    It feels like a rough journey, but I am constantly noticing my world expand.



  10.  #10Andrea on November 25, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Hi Indigo.. thank you for your response.. and I actually just got home from a date with him. heehee

    Well, he facebooked me Sunday morning with that.. oh your Sundays are busy…

    I messaged back, “I feel confused.”

    He called me and asked what I was confused about. I told him that I felt confused about what he wanted. I told him that I really appreciate clarity and it would make me feel happy to know what he wanted.

    He said “I want to meet you.”

    I said, “Oh, the best way to do that is to ask me out on a date.”

    He said, “Do you want to get together for some coffee this morning?”

    I said, “Oh, no thank you. If that’s all you are offering, that’s fine, but I feel like I deserve to be treated to a date. So I’ll pass. But thank you.”

    He said, “Well, wait a minute. What do you mean by a date?”

    So I had to explain to him what I meant when I talked about, “date”. (And I feel like I did it without expecting him to comply. I feel like I was just conversating… this is what I feel a date is. This is what I want.) Then I said, “What do you think?”

    And he asked me out on a real date for lunch today. He came and picked me up and treated me to lunch. It was great. I was hem hawing around about the menu not having a good salad and he said, “No.. I brought you here to try these spectacular hamburgers.”
    hmmmmm….. I smiled and ordered a hamburger. And he was right.. spectacular!!

    Is it a match?? No. After our lunch he proposed that we go to liquor store, get a bottle of wine, and go to his house and “relax”… REALLY???

    AND it took me about 15 minutes sitting in his vehicle outside the liquor store for me to get quite forceful with my words to make him drive me back home. He wasn’t angry or controlling… he was whining and feeling sorry for himself. Like.. “I’m all alone and I don’t want this day to end and I don’t have anything to do all day and we can just go back to my place and have a relaxing time and get to know eachother better.”

    hmmmmm….. nooooooooo!

    So, not a winner. But a good practice session.
    I feel like I’m on the verge though, I just really feel so positive and so joyful for some reason.. I just feel like I’m really on the verge of something big.

    When this date asked me why I wouldn’t go back to his house I was given the precious gift of voicing with clarity and with confidence, exactly what I want in a relationship BEFORE I go to his house. It was wonderful for me to get to hear me say it.



  11.  #11Liquid Light on November 25, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    I’m not trying to be judgemental but that guy sounds pathetic! He was begging you to come over and have a bottle of wine with you after lunch??? How special! He sounds like a major loser….gross gross gross! Yuck! sorry but that is a major turnoff!!!



  12.  #12Liquid Light on November 25, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    My strong reaction above reflects my zero tolerance policy for losers like this. I will give them none of my time.



  13.  #13April Rose on November 25, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    I don’t get it.

    What do you think is so wrong with this man?

    After stalling so long to make a date, he finally did. And he enjoyed it so much, he wanted to have Andrea’s company for longer.

    I really don’t get what is ‘loser’ about that!!!



  14.  #14Syreena on November 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Going aback to strangers house alone and drinking alcholhol with them would feel unsafe to me.

    If a new man who I was getting to know wanted my company for longer, plenty of things to do in public places and one that doesn’t involve drinking if I want to remain consciously aware and be with a date who is consciously aware and stay safe.



  15.  #15April Rose on November 25, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    I would put him in the clueless category.

    I would trust in my own feminine power (as Andrea did) to express my wants and don’t wants.

    This is the true meaning of boundaries – staying centred, staying happy, looking after myself. No need to judge a man or think the worst of him.



  16.  #16April Rose on November 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Andrea,

    Not sure if you saw my comment to you (131 in the previous thread).

    I’m loving it that you insist on a ‘proper date’, by the way!



  17.  #17Lisa on November 25, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    @Andrea WOW woman you go! That is awesome! Way to call him out…. I’ve had men do that… and it is such a turn off for me… the “please feel sorry for me ” I don’t want to be alone… I’ve had that done to me so many times… and in my experience… not for me…

    and though it might just work for some women… I’m soo happy to hear that you did what felt right for you…. YAY! I’m totally on board with it was a good practice for you…<3

    update: fear is coming in now… first time with "S" and I'm managing it… so wonderful that he calls me every day…. I don't do a thing!!!

    He says daily is there anything I can do for you today?

    So today was the first " I Love you" and that he said he feels great that we have such a strong foundation to build on…. I agree! We do! Now to keep the mind crap out of the way…

    I'm still struggling with the things Rori talks about with attraction etc… and yet, when I'm with him, I feel so good…about me… it goes away….

    I don't have to know where this is going, I don't want to focus on that, I just focus on now… and no fear… nothing to lose…. nothing to worry about… not focusing on the next date AT ALL… matter of fact, it doesn't even occur to me…. and it is so nice…

    just noticing that my mind is wanting to run and find a reason to run….

    Hummmm wonder, I'm so curious to see how just being ….. creates the man of my dreams….

    and I'm having a little axiety about the big moment when we finally do have sex…. more so than usual…. which is soooo unlike me….

    OXOXO



  18.  #18Zia on November 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Lisa – thank you for sharing! I can totally relate to being afraid of being loved. I am noticing at the moment that I’m only being given men in small doses, and each one has something different to show me, and for me to get used to. The guy I was dating was showing me how to get used to being treated the way I wanted to be treated, the last guy I was attracted to but noticed that I could only handle seeing him in VERY small doses and I haven’t heard from him and that’s okay!! Baby steps. Feel less like I’m being hit over the head with a sledgehammer with all the lessons and it feels great 🙂



  19.  #19Liquid Light on November 25, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    I am taking a stand for finding a quality man. That means not spending any time or energy on men that aren’t “quality”. I’m realizing that the only way I will create this in my life is to believe it and have my thoughts and actions be in complete alignment with it.



  20.  #20Millie on November 25, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    FeminineWoman..

    I responded to you on the previous thread.
    thank you for your “yays” they made me feel good!



  21.  #21Femininewoman on November 25, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    April Rose I so get what you are saying. I definitely would not go back to his house but I would not go into assuming that he was unsafe or describe him as a loser. Andrea I so love how you practiced speaking up and standing in your personal power without attacking him. I noticed you didn’t even mention running him down in your thoughts.

    Yayy you.



  22.  #22Dominique on November 25, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Lisa – 4 – This is so beautiful.

    xxoo



  23.  #23Dominique on November 25, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    Iris – 9 – Feeling afraid of love is not an uncommon thing. I likely have other articles which may talk more directly about this, yet this one popped up first, so there much be a good reason for it. I hope it helps.

    xxoo



  24.  #24Dominique on November 25, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Andrea – 10 – I feel blown away by your clarity here and ability to put it all into action. YAY you!!!

    xxoo



  25.  #25Amazed on November 25, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Sigh….realizing that I too am afraid of love and intimacy. I have a guy friend right now…FWB because that’s all I can do right now. We are both too busy for a relationship and I am trying to deal with my stuff…been separated from my husband for over a year and now I’m trying to get papers signed and divorce finalized. I have 2 kids and am living with my parents. I feel overwhelmed and don’t know where to start… I know if my guy friend finds his Mrs. Right I don’t think I will be fine with it. I feel confused…. 🙁



  26.  #26Andrea on November 25, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Lisa, your #4 made me cry. I’m feeling such deep connection to that ability to attract that experience, whether you’re ready for it or not. It’s here.

    And thank you for all the feedback. I never felt unsafe with the man on the date today, but I did feel like he mistook my friendliness and openness for “easy”.

    I definitely feel that (for me) going to a mans house and drinking alcohol just opens the door for him to think I’m cheap and easy and that he doesn’t need to put any effort into attracting me.

    I feel like I already put too much chase energy into him, just to get the date. And no, he is not a man I will ever go out with again. I recognize that he is no where near the vibration level that I’m operating at. I can offer him a whole whole lot. His life will be mega-magnified enriched with me in it.

    But I’m not here anymore to enrich or magnify men. I’m done with that role and it feels good. It feels great.

    I am wanting and ready and excited to share enrichment, magnification, love, etc.. with MY MAN!! I don’t know exactly who he is yet. But he’s on his way. And I do know… because of circular dating…. who he is not. Hah…

    And that man that I went on a date with today… well, if he keeps putting himself out there with more and more women, he’ll learn eventually. And he’ll find his match.



  27.  #27Andrea on November 25, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Sorry… his life “would” be mega magnified and enriched if I were in it. But I’m not. I’m not here to enrich his life. And I feel strongly that he would not be able to enrich mine. (not because either one of us is any better or worse than the other, just because we are not in sync vibrationally)

    I feel very safe and very smart dis-engaging.

    But it was a wonderful lesson, great practice, and I’ve still got work to do.



  28.  #28Millie on November 25, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Lisa #4 Wow……
    This is so inspiring…
    I’m wondering how many opportunities I’m missing to really express myself?!

    I’m feeling a little bad at the moment because Mechanic had described to me “a woman unlike any other woman he’d met” and in that moment I thought, she must be a siren, and I’m not….that made me sad and as I think about now I feel sad. But that is not something you share with a man is it? How you feel less than because he didn’t say that about you? I can imagine this woman he spoke up, but I do not imagine myself as her. How I feel about myself these days is very soft….I feel warm, sensitive, open, a good listener, quiet, sweet….for some reason I feel like this ideal woman he has is so much more…..



  29.  #29Zia on November 25, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    So I haven’t heard from the guy from the weekend, and I find myself automatically going into old habits. I’m NOT anxious or feeling rejected or any of those things. It’s more in the headspace of “what if he needs a green light to get in touch?” and “should I just reach out so that he knows i’d be interested if he asked me out?”

    Which is I know masculine energy mode, and it’s also kinda babying… He’s a big boy, and he doesn’t need for me to hold his hand to ask me out! So I’ll just leave it, and that’s cool. But the fact that that is the only sort of process my mind is going through shows me just how much I’ve grown since last year…. as this is the first guy I’ve been attracted to since my breakup, and last time I basically clung to the guy for dear life and did everything I could to make him stay. Now I know that if he is into me he’ll contact me, and if not, another cute guy will be along and show interest in me. Because lets face it, how could they NOT?



  30.  #30Cris on November 25, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    I am amazed to see how we all are working on ourselves… all my best wishes to you, Zia!!!

    I feel a bit confused about the concept “afraid of being loved” some of you have mentioned…



  31.  #31Millie on November 25, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Reposting from previous thread….
    Just because some feedback would feel good, and/or maybe some suggestions on power speeches without being explainy. Today is the first day I haven’t heard from Mechanic, last week he contacted me every day….I know I need some space from the interaction, so I’m taking it in stride.

    Femininewoman,
    It felt really good to read your yay!!
    My answer to you is NO. I am not ok with being a “for now” even if I make him my “for now.”
    Here’s why…

    When a man says he doesn’t want a relationship right now, I hear the unspoken words of “with you.” He does not want to settle down “with me.” I do believe that tomorrow he could meet another woman that could change all of that. And when he said this to me, I didn’t go into my sad place of self criticism…. As I normally would, wondering why I wasn’t good enough. I sat there and told myself I AM THAT WOMAN but for someone else.

    I like this man a lot. I respect him. He is someone with the ability to change and inspire people and he has inspired me. However, I do not want to settle either. I do not want to settle for…”oh I like this man but I’ll take friends with benefits since he doesn’t want a relationship.” This man is also 41 and I am 27. I also do not want myself to settle with “well he’s so much older so there really isn’t any future there so I’ll just enjoy the sex for now.” That’s selling myself short too and I’ve done that before to no avail. I do want to sleep with him, I haven’t yet, but I know that if I do, over time I will get attached and want more. I want him in my life, but I don’t want to be the hook-up girl. I have my truth, but I will wait until we see each again to tell him. I wonder about timing… If I should sleep with him once to satisfy my curiosity and then end it. Haha…



  32.  #32angela on November 26, 2013 at 12:50 am

    I love this.
    I dont want to live to avoid pain, funny thing this is what I have been thinking about lately how I live in this place where I am always judging my life as wrong or about to get wrong.
    I want to be happy I want to see life in a new way.
    I want to be feminine I want to be relaxed happy smiley I want to live in a place of wonder.



  33.  #33I_Me on November 26, 2013 at 12:52 am

    This is so beautiful, I feel like working with you someday and right now I am working with one of your trainees.

    My whole perception towards life changes..

    Thank You so much,

    I_Me



  34.  #34Syreena on November 26, 2013 at 1:55 am

    Yay to you Andrea.



  35.  #35Zia on November 26, 2013 at 3:12 am

    leaning back, leaning back…. i think i’m going to read “get the guy” again



  36.  #36Femininewoman on November 26, 2013 at 6:42 am

    Good for you Millie.



  37.  #37Amazed on November 26, 2013 at 7:06 am

    Sigh….realizing that I too am afraid of love and intimacy. I have a guy friend right now…FWB because that’s all I can do right now. We are both too busy for a relationship and I am torying to deal with my stuff…been separated from my husband for over a year and now I’m trying to get papers signed and divorce finalized. I have 2 kids and am living with my parents. I feel overwhelmed and don’t know where to start… I know if my guy friend finds his Mrs. Right I don’t think I will be fine with it. I feel confused…. 🙁



  38.  #38Indigo on November 26, 2013 at 8:19 am

    testing



  39.  #39Indigo on November 26, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Andrea,

    Truly, truly impressed and inspired by your confidence and self-assurance around this… I so feel like taking a leaf out of your book!

    And April Rose and Feminine Woman, totally with you… I don’t understand the need to rush to judgment on this man. We don’t know him, and even if we did, his behavior has not given cause for some of these harsh comments. I shudder to think how it makes me feel about myself to call another human a loser.



  40.  #40Syreena on November 26, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Feel pleased that you would not assume the man Andrea was talking about was unsafe.
    I wouldn’t assume that either and indeed never said I did
    What would feel unsafe to me would to be to put myself in a situation to go back to a strangers house and drink with him. Which is what I said
    So for me it would be that situation that was unsafe.
    Being alone in private drinking with a man I didn’t know.
    That’s why I choose not to do that as Andrea did.



  41.  #41Shar Lean Way Back on November 26, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Way to go Lisa and Andrea…wow this is inspiring ! Andrea, yes this man was there for practice and that is what cd’ing is about. I can feel compassion for his lonleness and sure some are going try to get you to their place but wow you nailed it !
    You too Lisa !



  42.  #42Tereana on November 26, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    I love, love, love this post from Rori. Wow, so much of it spoke to me. And at first it seemed too long. But then it kept winding around into really relevant spots for me.

    Places like, not knowing the meaning of what a “mistake” is. Hallelujah! And then, realizing that what’s a mistake and not a mistake isn’t any of our business because we don’t know the true trajectory of our life (or anyone else’s). And that unknown, what’s next, is none of our business, either!

    True, true.

    And then, realizing that we’ve been associating “unknown” with “pain” out of habit. I’ve definitely done that!

    I think before I go full steam into “hanging out” in the unknown – I do that a lot, and it feels uncomfortable, and I always want to get out – I think I’ll get used to the idea of it being a habit. A simple association that might be untrue. And what might it look like if that cord were simply cut? How would it feel if that association were broken?

    I can hang out in “uncertainty as pain” all day long and let it lead me into all kinds of not-pretty things. But if I realize first that it doesn’t have to be that, or to mean that, then the idea of it gets a whole different shape. One that feels comfortable, at ease, friendly, and wise.

    I like that place. I like that idea.

    If I want to go to “uncertainty,” I want to go to the one that feels like it aligns with my intuition.

    Thanks, Rori!



  43.  #43Iris on November 26, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    @ Dominique, thanks for the reassurance. It always feels good knowing I am not alone in this!



  44.  #44Liquid Light on November 26, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Mistakes are great. I made mistakes in one of my prior relationships and then applied what I learned in the next one. It worked as we had an incredible relationship in so many ways. But I made mistakes in that relationship too …I feel I went too much in the opposite direction with him. Now I have the opportunity to apply what I learned from that relationship in my next one. I feel with this next one (with whomever that will be its still TBD) it will be fantastic!



  45.  #45Dominique on November 26, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Iris – I’m so sorry. Seems to be a habit of mine lately, suggesting an article and failing to post it.

    http://sexandheart.com/love-and-fear/

    xxoo



  46.  #46Turquoise on November 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I had a hard time getting through this article. I couldn’t feel it… but then when I got to the end I think I understand why. The biggining, all the focus on our mistakes, feels obsessive or compulsive to me. I’m not like that anymore. I feel pretty comfortable in my empty space. Not wondering what I’ve done wrong or if it will happen again, or beating myself up over I should have’s….. I feel pretty comfortable in my life right now.

    I’ve been seeing Sweetheart pretty regularly, and doing much better about really thinking through what I want to say, if it even needs said (not every thought that pops in my head needs to come out my mouth… and focusing on myself. I feel good about it. Not obsessive or worrying about what will happen. I’m happy to date him.

    I have a date with a new guy on Friday. I don’t know what to call him yet, so for now I’ll call him B. We’ve been emailing for a few weeks, we have a lot in common and the conversation flows pretty freely. I’m looking forward to meeting him in person. We are going for Mexican food, yum!

    Mr. Conversation is still regularly in the picture. Nothing romantic has happened in a long time. He’s suggested we change that. I’m not sleeping with Sweetheart, definitely not rushing back into that…. I don’t know for sure what I want there yet. It would feel good to have a passion filled night. It’s been such a long time. I think I need that spark again. Feeling a little blah about turning 40 in a few weeks. But, not sure I want to keep blurring the lines with Mr. Conversation either. He’s still hot of course… I don’t know. Not worrying about it, just see what happens.

    I was chatting/emailing with a few other guys, but no dates planned. One lives quite far away, feels like he’ll be a penpal more than an actual date. I like him though. He’s smart, sounds like a good dad… I enjoy talking to him.

    My thoughts are going here though…. I know Sweetheart wants to be serious, and I don’t want that. I do want to CD. I’m wondering if I do the no girlfriend speech. Do I tell him when I have a date with someone else, or do I just say I have plans? Bottom line is he is still married with a lot of issues that need resolved before I’d want a serious relationship with him. I don’t want to “wait”. He texted me “love ya” the other night…. I’m happy to spend time with him and enjoy his company, but I’m not in love with him. SO what do I do?



  47.  #47Liquid Light on November 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Turq, I can relate. there’s part of me that just wants to have a fling right now, just something fun and sexy with someone hot, no strings! 🙂 But then there’s part of me that thinks that’s wrong, but the other part of me thinks its right! hahahahha…I’m just really missing physical intimacy and touch and if I can’t have it all (haven’t found him yet) then maybe I just find someone in the meantime to give me some of that intimacy.



  48.  #48Zia on November 26, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Liquid Light – I’m there too. I think there is nothing wrong with a bit of a sexy fling. I would love that right now while I’m taking a break from dating!



  49.  #49Liquid Light on November 26, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Thanks Zia, glad to know I’m not the only one! There’s a bartender that is cute but I don’t know if I could actually do it! I start feeling really shy thinking about it!



  50.  #50Andrea on November 26, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    But how adorable would that be Liquid Light?

    “Hi, I’m feeling so shy right now, but sexy and sweet every time I imagine having a fling with you? What do you think?”

    Hahahah…… Oh my goodness, that’s so hot. I’m seeing you blush a little bit too. Let go of the outcome and just float. Wonder what would happen. : )



  51.  #51Zia on November 26, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Love it Andrea 🙂 And why not. When we’re in the zone of playing and just seeing what works and what doesn’t, it takes away that insecurity because you release yourself of a specific outcome!



  52.  #52blue rose on November 26, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    very helpful.

    I’m dwelling on my “mistakes” with the guy I was dating. It may be over – we are in limbo. I’m so confused by the whole thing.

    I need to be in the moment more, and not dwell on what I said “wrong” or what mistakes I made. I do need to learn from them, but they are a part of the journey, and I can’t beat myself up about my mistakes.



  53.  #53Millie on November 26, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Ughhh….
    Trying to stay grounded and rooted.
    Feeling my feelings.
    Not sure why I’m having them…
    I feel what I would normally associate as “love” for mechanic.
    I’m questioning what the feelings I associate as love are?
    They can’t REALLY be love. I mean I haven’t even known the guy that long and he isn’t pursuing me.
    So what are these feelings?!
    My heard feels close to the outside of my skin. I can feel it beating all day.
    I feel like part of me wants to withdraw.
    I feel excited when I think of him and/or see a picture or post of him.
    I feel proud of him.
    A tiny voice inside me says “of course he wouldn’t be THAT interested.”
    A part of me feels invisible and cast aside. Am I hiding myself? Am I casting myself aside?
    Today I told a girlfriend to take responsibility for her emotions, that her man is not 100% to blame. She got upset.
    Am I taking full responsibility for my emotions??



  54.  #54Amazed on November 26, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Oops…I posted the same post twice….anyway I am loving this physical relationship with my FWB…lol I am not going to think about what l happen if he finds his Mrs.Right because I will start to CD again if I find myself getting attached. Right now I need to concentrate on healing and getting my needs met. I just got away from a toxic man…I felt very self concious around him from things he said to me, would overreact to things I might say and he was all about me not being able to give him what he wanrs right now…….um, excuse me but it’s all about the goddess and her needs not yours toxic man! I feel so much more relaxed away from him and he dredged up feelings similar to how my ex-husband made me feel…icky and bad. I don’t feel overwhelmed anymore…just relieved. 🙂



  55.  #55Liquid Light on November 26, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I love that Andrea, thanks! Now I’m blushing!!! Hahahaha!!!



  56.  #56Millie on November 26, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    To clarify-
    The feelings that feel like love to me are
    attraction
    his magnetism
    sexual desire
    my admiration for him as a force, he is a force.
    my desire to be greater than or equal to him.
    my desire to be loved by a man like him…..
    I know this isn’t LOVE. This is something else….



  57.  #57Millie on November 26, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    If I have a desire to be greater than or equal to him…
    Then that means I feel less than.
    How do I stop that?



  58.  #58Zia on November 26, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    I am enjoying putting all the things I’ve learned into practise with this guy I’m feeling attraction towards. I’m ok with a pure physical thing or more if that’s what develops. Baby steps! Going to keep doing what i’m doing in my life and with meeting new men 🙂



  59.  #59Zia on November 26, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    It feels good to be told that he noticed me when I didn’t even know. It feels good to receive compliments based around femininity.



  60.  #60Cris on November 27, 2013 at 12:01 am

    @Millie, I have recognized having that kind of feeling before… it is like being on the verge of an abyss with 100 % awareness that you are going to suffer and take full responsibility on that… following the let’s say philosophy of this blog, it should be avoided but …

    good luck!



  61.  #61Sophie on November 27, 2013 at 2:25 am

    Morning 🙂 It feels lovely to read everyone’s comments – lots of exciting, empowering stuff

    This post makes me laugh – My eyes read ‘the Land of Mistakes’ and my eyes went to the picture of Rori in England – yes indeed it certainly feels like the Land of Mistakes sometimes 🙂

    Great post – I like the line too where she says she doesn’t want to be hanging out in worrying – what mistakes she’s made, what mistakes she might make – that’s true for me too – fear and regret are so pointless and draining

    Lisa – I love hearing that you’re having such a wonderful experience with this later man

    Andrea – I love the practise you had this man – I can identify I have definitely come across men like that where it feels like you’re winding up a clock just to get it started in the first place (and the expecting something for nothing) big no thank you 🙂 It was through experiences like this though I think that I really began to get that sensation that I CAN choose and they really do have to step up and there really are more out there and yes I expect more – that all felt quite empowering for me

    (((Zia))) yay! I love it too when they’ve noticed you and you didn’t know – with CDB he’d seen me around for nearly 7 months and then was going to ask me out at a party in the May but I left and then he didnt get the opportunity again until January – he’d made it his new year resolution to ask me the next time he saw me and he did – i like that … I feel very flattered to be someone’s resolution! I also like how the universe or whatever took care of the timing – not saying the timing was great this year but I absolutely wouldn’t have been ready in that May having just come out of a really horrid relationship…good luck with the practising!

    Things have calmed down between CDB and I are harmonious and nice again..turning point…I included him in my life! It was quite profound really as I didn’t realise I was shutting him out but the minute I just broke down and said “I need your help, I feel frightened managing it all by myself, please will you help me” we were a team again…it was kind of all about money and my work stuff and things like that and I was feeling really frightened. It was great as we weren’t focusing on US or HIM but we were getting to work like a team again – I feel grateful for this step forward…



  62.  #62Zia on November 27, 2013 at 3:54 am

    Sophie yeah well this guy said he first noticed me a few months ago, and I actually noticed him too at the same event…. your story was a nice reminder that it isn’t always easy for men to ask someone out!



  63.  #63Kyla on November 27, 2013 at 7:49 am

    I would love to hear some advice or feedback.

    I feel uncomfortable talking on the phone to a man I haven’t met in person. It feels weird and strained and I would prefer to grab a coffee first and maybe go for a walk and just talk. I’ve never liked using the phone for more than a quick “I’m running late, see you soon” type call anyway.

    So I’m online dating and when this has comes up and I’ve shared in a feeling message.. well they either say they understand but keep bringing up how much they look forward to me being ready for a phone call or they just push that I have to get it out of the way sooner or later so I should just do it now. Owww I don’t want to feel have to/should do..

    I keep responding in feeling messages and some have set a date up so I’m feeling good about getting me meet them but I feel curious about this. Is it really a big deal that I prefer in-person rather than phone first?



  64.  #64Kyla on November 27, 2013 at 8:17 am

    I feel curious if I’m attracting this to practice my boundaries or to explore using the phone hmm

    ugh icky I don’t want to, I feel a roar stuck in my throat, NO! i feel tiny and frightened and pushed up against a wall, I feel tears rolling down my cheeks. I feel waves of sadness rolling through my body and crashing in my throat, lumpy, tight .. go away leave me alone ohhhh i feel fear i want to run .. i don’t want to abandon me anymore i’m so sorry i love you i’m here for you shhhhh now honey its ok its ok



  65.  #65Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Kyla I wonder if it is your fear of intimacy kicking in? I imagine that people kinda want to test if there is some rapport or conversation chemistry that could be built before meeting. I believe the phone call is a good way to test this.



  66.  #66Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 8:42 am

    Kyla, if you don’t want to use the phone until you have met in person and express that the right man for you will except and honor that. Other men will push to see if you give in and they can get you to change your mind.

    You could always state No thank you, I don’t want to speak on the phone until I have met in person. This weeds out the wrong men for you if you stick to your guns.

    That is true intimacy stating what you want in an authentic way, expressing and showing the real you. The right man for you will want to give you what you want.

    Best of luck whatever you choose to do with this one.



  67.  #67Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 8:44 am

    accept



  68.  #68Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 8:45 am

    To me you have answered your own question. The answer is in you. You don’t want to.



  69.  #69Sophie on November 27, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Hi Kyla

    I don’t like speaking on the phone either – this has come up a lot on the blog before and I remember some people like to be phoned, some don’t

    I don’t..I much prefer to meet in person…speaking only for me I don’t think I have an issue I just don’t like it – to me it feels invasive and draining and actually often when I have said it’s okay to call I’ve ended up with men attempting to talk for ages or gearing it towards some kind of sexual entertainment – it has been about them not about me – that is not to say that all men would be like that I don’t know! Most of the nice men I met I met in person and they didn’t ask to talk to me on the phone…it’s different for everyone I’m sure and probably different depending what dating sites you use

    FW – I can see your point about wanting to test compatibility by phone but I would want a man to take the risk and meet me 🙂

    Anyway, I don’t like the phone and i feel quite happy saying I feel good meeting in person repetitively if needs be!



  70.  #70Kyla on November 27, 2013 at 9:19 am

    FW thank you, that does seem to be what they are saying and I feel open to experimenting with the phone after the first meeting

    Syreena and Sophie – thank you! I feel afraid of letting myself be talked into doing something I’ve already expressed discomfort with, especially when there has been nothing but a few emails, I want to honour my boundaries and attract a man that honours them too. Yes maybe this is good weeding out and maybe I will stop attracting this from men that find it an issue when I have practiced some more.

    No thank you. I don’t want to talk on the phone until after we meet in person.

    Hmmm that is maybe more direct than what I’ve expressed. Oooh I see now how maybe expressing discomfort and preference rather than no thank you is less strong. Aww if I frame it that way its triggering them to be reassuring and trying to take little steps with me. That feels so much better to believe.

    I am going to practice that thank you 🙂



  71.  #71Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Kyla looking at what you wrote can you then switch roles and see if another human being needs something to feel safe with you if you would be open to doing that?

    I ask because we can be experienced as being set in our ways. That is one of the things that can destroy a relationship.



  72.  #72Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Personally I want to feel safe with a person on the phone before meeting them. Sometime the angries can come out on the phone or the eye rolling shut down vibe. I know Rori encourage meeting as soon as possible. I do think however that a woman can possibly come across to some men as desperate when they do. Whether the man is a match for me or not I hate the very thought of the stink of desperate anywhere near me.



  73.  #73Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Another way is to flip it to what you do want.

    It feels better for me to speak on the phone after I have met people in person, so I only want to speak on the phone after that.

    They will the either step up and give you what you want or they won’t.

    Those that don’t you have weeded out and are not a match.



  74.  #74Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 9:37 am

    ” feel quite happy saying I feel good meeting in person repetitively”

    For me. no way no how. I feel better believing he has a valid reason for his resistance and am open to taking it as a no for an answer. If I have to keep repeating, it tells me there is likely to be a lot of work down the road. Like pulling teeth when talk of commitment comes up. Feels better to me to move on.



  75.  #75Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Kyla I would also explore within myself if I have past bad experiences with men and the phone. Also if it is a kinda old fashioned belief I have about us meeting instead of spending hours on the phone talking. That way you can be clear within yourself.



  76.  #76Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 9:42 am

    What can also happen Kyla is some people will try and engage and ask your reasons.
    And if they do not agree with your reasons will try and make your reasons wrong or talk you around. Trying to control you and talk you around Due to lack of understanding that different people have different desires wand needs and thoughts.
    Some never reach that understanding.

    This is different from you understanding that the man wants you speak on the phone first.
    And you having the I hear you attitude but I don’t want that and the take it or leave it attitude, which to me comes across as anything but desperate and shows a woman who knows and sticks to what she wants.

    Depends what and who you think is more important to you Kyla.
    You and what you want.
    Or some random man and what he wants.
    Only you can choose.



  77.  #77Sophie on November 27, 2013 at 9:47 am

    74 – yes I agree FW – maybe the word repetitively was misleading – I was assuming that they would probably just fall by the wayside anyway if phoning before meeting was something that they were insistent on – I think what I meant to express was I would have the feeling messages that expressed my wants and other than that I wasn’t very invested in getting into an exchange about it…



  78.  #78Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 9:54 am

    And you are not wrong wanting what you want Fw.
    If what you want and makes you feel safe is talking on the phone first.

    It is about what feels best to and is right for the individual women.

    Kyla is not you and does not want what you want.

    Kyla is Kyla and wants what she wants.
    And you are you and want what you want.

    Hopefully you will both get a man who is right for you and wants to give you what you want.
    Your Mr Right for you.



  79.  #79Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Sophie it reminded of Lauren Frances and another coach who talks about Male Attention Deficit Disorder. 3 strikes and you are out. Seems if you have to ask a man to do something 3 times or more it says for some reason he can’t hear you.



  80.  #80Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Kyla something that stands out for me.

    “I feel afraid of being talked into something I have already expressed discomfort with.”

    If you had a little girl and she came to you and said someone was trying to talk her into something that she didn’t feel comfortable doing what would you tell her to do?



  81.  #81Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 10:10 am

    “I feel afraid of being talked into something I have already expressed discomfort with.”

    Oddly enough this stood out to me too. I wondered what is it about such a phone conversation that could create fear in me. If I don’t want to I don’t want to. I can even choose to hang up the phone. I have the choice to operate in fear or not. I also have the choice to take a phone call or. To engage in an interaction or not. What causes my fear response to be triggered?



  82.  #82Syreena on November 27, 2013 at 10:17 am

    For most people it would be because they had been talked into things in the past and not respected.
    Someone pushing their boundaries and trying to control them.

    If you don’t want to talk on the phone until after meeting first. That is what you want and is right for you.
    You get to choose.
    You don’t need to give a reason or have anyone elses approval or validation .
    You want what you want.



  83.  #83Dominique on November 27, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Sophie – 61 – Wow, loving your allowing vulnerability. Yay you!!!

    xxoo



  84.  #84Turquoise on November 27, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Liquid Light…. I was thinking maybe it’s time for a mid life crisis… turning 40 and all…. I hear from these younger guys all the time that I’d never seriously consider dating, and I started thinking maybe a fling like that would be FUN! Not sure I could actually go through with it..lol, but fun to think about 🙂



  85.  #85Kyla on November 27, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Its not using the phone that brings up the fear. That stems from how I feel when they keep pressing or hinting after I have expressed that “I feel better meeting someone in person first, I feel uncomfortable on the phone with someone I haven’t met and would like to meet first.” I don’t want to back down on the very first boundary I have expressed with a guy, I feel afraid that it makes my backbone disappear and Im saying to him I have no value for my own feelings I’m not worthy of respect go ahead and push me I will bend my needs to suit you.. because thats not the kind of man I want to attract and I have abandoned some of my feelings in the past and let my mind literally convince/trick me into feeling good when I really felt awful. I think thats whats coming up. Giving up little things that do matter to me yet seem insignificant to others so easy to talk myself out as ‘no big deal’ except I’ve betrayed myself and my heart retreats because it doesn’t feel safe with ME.

    I am feeling my way around this. I plain don’t like the phone as a form of communication.. I want body language and facial expression too and well to be honest I have an extremely busy life and long chats with a total stranger, nothing but a disembodied voice, I’m not interested in that. Its never been an issue as I’ve never online dated before..

    Lots to stuff to play with here



  86.  #86Liquid Light on November 27, 2013 at 11:29 am

    I totally hear you Kyla, I feel the same way. I came up with my own rule that I don’t talk on the phone before the first meeting without even realizing it was a rule. Then I started to feel that maybe I was being too rigid and now I’m a bit more flexible about it. Either way if I do talk on the phone first, I keep it short. My preference is still to just meet as quickly as possible though since I think talking on the phone is kinda useless. Until you meet the person, there’s no way to know if there’s anything there or not. That’s been my experience anyway. Also talking on the phone can taint things and bias you in a way, either pos or neg, that I don’t think is that useful. But if he really wants to then I just go with it. Just my 2 cents.



  87.  #87Sophie on November 27, 2013 at 11:34 am

    thank you Dominique 🙂 it just suddenly dawned on me I was holding all this stress and fear and struggling with everything and feeling on my own and I could just melt down and ask him to help me! and he did! and there’s not been a cross word since…xx



  88.  #88Liquid Light on November 27, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Hahahaha!!! I just got a message from someone on POF saying that he wants to talk to me on the phone on Friday! Talk about synergy!!!



  89.  #89Liquid Light on November 27, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    I just told him “Sure”…spending the energy to suggest we meet instead or that I don’t want to and would prefer to meet or whatever just seems like too much trouble.



  90.  #90Dominique on November 27, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Kyla – If a new man is not hearing you on your preference, maybe he’s weeding himself out from the beginning. I was going to ask you how you expressed yourself, and posted it. What you said is good feeling message. You could try repeating yourself, and see, but if a simple request is repeatedly disregarded, then maybe it’s time for – next….

    xxoo



  91.  #91daria on November 27, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    hello im feeling…like im floating . and also scared. and my nani feels tingly. lol . i feel all embarSsed. my chest feels all pumpy



  92.  #92Zia on November 27, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Kyla – I used to feel the exact same way with online dating. I would almost feel sick at the thought of talking on the phone before meeting. However during my time of learning about dating and online dating, all the coaches advised to speak on the phone before meeting as a way to get a feel for someone first. There were a couple of men I did eliminate after the phone call because they didn’t feel good to talk to, and was very glad I didn’t end up meeting them in person.

    I actually used it as a way to face one of my fears, and I found that once i was on the phone with a man it really wasn’t that bad! And after a while I was the one making the suggestion about the phone calls.

    A lot of men might feel the same way. However they might not know how to express that properly when you state your desire not to speak.

    It was always just the case of *one* “screening call” before we met. Never a desire to carry out endless long phone calls with a man.



  93.  #93Femininewoman on November 27, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Well said Zia.



  94.  #94Lisa on November 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    @Zia Thanks so much <3
    @Millie Thanks so much! <3
    @Dominique Thank you that means so much to me

    Update:

    Keeping my eyes open as usual… and not looking for red flags but being aware and open… tiny ones are surfacing but MAN this man communicates… he told me he had fears come up about being a good man for me and fear of coming up short… I'm watching to make sure, I don't turn into a therapist and also not giving advice etc… not offering suggestions… I listen and understand then I move on to other topics… he feels safe talking to me… that feels good…

    On the other hand, my feeling messages are working well… but I'm feeling a little sad and uncomfortable that he isn't really putting much effort into our dates… ( my thoughts are he hasn't ever had to before- so he just hasn't worked the muscle) but he surprised me with flowers again tonight… my youngest ask if he could stay for dinner, I wouldn't have wanted to cook for him, but I was already cooking for her so ( what could I say) but ok… but he thanked me several times, and offered to do the dishes for me.. and cleaned the kitchen… wow!

    Last night he fixed my cat perch, gave me a massage, and started the fire for me…

    What is so beautiful about his, is he loves, loves doing these things for me… and he loves that I receive… and he said, I get up every day going to give you my very best to be the man you need…

    I'm still in shock really, but loving this!! and feeling I need to circle date more. b/c that trapped feeling is starting to come in again… he is booking up all my time…. shew! I'm not ready for that serious yet… hold on horsey…

    No real sex yet, but nice to be taking it step by step… I may have met my match sexually… heheheee… never thought that would happen but @Dominique you were right on! This man has taken really good care of himself and knows how to please a woman and says he lives for it, and he is my age! 😉

    SO happy thanksgiving ladies! Much love and gratitude for you all…. <3

    XOXOXO



  95.  #95Tereana on November 27, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    Turquoise – 46 – I had a similar experience. You reminded me that, as I read the first part of this article, I noticed that I beat myself up a LOT less than I used to. Like it is a HUGE difference. I still have some fleeting negative thoughts about myself, but it is so much friendlier in my head now 🙂

    and I dwell on my mistakes much less, too. I a knowledge it, and move on. I don’t obsess as much as I used to. And I still obsess some. It used to be a lot more ; )

    Yay for progress! (Yours and mine : )



  96.  #96Tereana on November 27, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    I haven’t had much time, not the inclination, really, to date much since I’ve been home. It just doesn’t seem to fit somehow. But I am still happy with what I’m doing. Mostly. I’m looking forward to more independence, but it will come.

    My cd-ing has taken the form of texting with some guys at home (that is, from Cali), and random interactions with men in person. I helped two men out yesterday with two different things. They didn’t seem emasculated at all. And I didn’t ask for or offer anything in return. One of them called me “an angel.” I felt good 🙂

    And I’ve been thinking about this “mistake” idea vis a vis my most recent guy. You see, about a week and a half ago, we were texting, and he seemed to suggest a type of exclusivity. It came out of nowhere, and it felt good. And yet, upon consideration, I let him know that I couldn’t promise that, since it will be about five months before I see him again. Anything could happen. He agreed. And then I didn’t hear from him.

    But then I had this second thought, like, what if I hurt his feelings? What if he feels rejected and won’t want to sleep with me at all now? What if I was too “in my head” and it turned him off?

    I wanted to talk to him about it. So I texted him. But he said he was sick. I said ok. I believe him. I trust him a lot. And every day, in spite of myself, I feel myself liking him more and more.

    Well, the unknown is: what will he do? What will he decide? Will I hear from him? Will I see him in the future? Will I meet someone else entirely? Is he offering me something that I want, in a package that looks different from what I expect?

    These are my questions. I don’t have the answers. But I find that the longer I “hang out” in the space of not-knowing, the more I get to ask of myself, to know about myself. The more I learn and grow and feel my heart softening and opening.

    This is what it is like, right?

    And sometimes I still do feel the pull to “do” something. But I don’t. Whatever it takes. I want to keep my eyes open and see what comes next…



  97.  #97Emerson on November 27, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    I really believe in focusing on what you want…
    I have been and things seem to be falling into place with everything except a man that is mutually compatible
    With me…
    I feel I’m losing hope sometimes …and I feel sad and lonely!!!
    But…
    Tonight I decided I’m going to focus on just that which I want…someone with a matching energy and mutual desire for daily contact and cuddling and affection and connection…I’m independent but I really like that daily connection and I like to spend alot of time with my sig. other



  98.  #98Emerson on November 27, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    I wnr to focus on only the positive things !! I don’t wnt to dwell on past disappointments any more!!



  99.  #99Millie on November 27, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    I want to have a “no friends with benefits” conversation with Mechanic. I feel the need to have this partly to own up to myself and be clear to him and partly because I feel him withdrawing. The idea I have as to why he is… is because he must sense how much I like him and he is setting a boundary, so I feel the need to set my own boundary. I am NOT chasing him, but I believe a man can sense when a woman wants more even if she does not do anything to show that, which I haven’t. I’ve done nothing but initiate a few texts, which wasn’t a big deal. This is what I would like to say, although right now is not the ideal time to tell him…he’s out, and I would not get his full attention. So I’m going to post it here:

    “I’m sorry if I’ve been misleading. I feel like we are going down the friends with benefits path and due to that I feel the need to say that to me “friends with benefits” promotes disconnection and I am not emotionally equipped for that. I like you and enjoy your company, I have no regrets of anything that has happened between us, but since you’ve made it clear you aren’t looking to date me, then I’d like it if we just became good friends without the complications off being physical. What do you think?”

    How does that sound ladies?



  100.  #100Millie on November 27, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Tereana–it doesn’t sound to me like you were “too in your head.” Five months is a long time to go without seeing someone you are allegedly exclusive with. It sounds like you made the right decision, you weren’t saying NO forever, just no right now. If he chooses to walk away from you because of that, that is his choice, but as I see it, you were looking out for your own best interest, which is what all of this work and tools are about. It’s the truth to say that “anything could happen” in five months because it could!! Unless this exclusivity was a ring and a promise that you are it, I don’t see why you would agree to it if the feeling was not mutual.



  101.  #101LoveAlways on November 27, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    Happy Thanksgivings Day Sirens!



  102.  #102Zia on November 27, 2013 at 11:35 pm

    I’ve gone from not feeling any attraction towards ANY man in the 9 months since breaking up with my ex, to coming across two men in less than a week whom I’ve felt attraction to. Love it!!!



  103.  #103Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 1:33 am

    Today I feel fed up with the don’t make any man wrong saga.

    Nope can’t be bothered with that any longer, if a so called grown up man or woman think it isn’t wrong to touch other peoples things without asking and use then to do what they like with regardless of if the owner is ok about that. Then all I can say is feel fed up to the back teeth moddycoddlying and not showing how bloody angry that makes me feel and yes they are going to get a volatile reaction of most people. Cause and effect. Welcome to the real world.
    And if that pushes them away good riddance. GOOOOO!
    No I am not going to be all soft on the outside. Sadly some people just do not get that isn’t ok unless they see and hear it isn’t in a very loud and clear way.
    Doesn’t bloody worK! Sometimes only thing that works is loud and in your face.
    If that is unfeminine, I don’t really care.

    Some things are wrong plain and simple and messing with other peoples stuff without their permission is wrong. Rant over! And if you mess with mine I’m going to ROAR. GRRRRRRR.



  104.  #104Zia on November 28, 2013 at 2:38 am

    Syreena – The “dont make a man wrong” thing is more about instead of telling someone off, just expressing how you feel. If you feel angry, you say you feel angry. And if they keep doing things over and over after you’ve expressed your feelings, then you decide whether you want them around you or not..



  105.  #105Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 3:06 am

    You don’t say Zia, I’m well aware of that Zia just feel fed up of moddycoddling and not letting giving a consequence and yes people bloody well already know that other people are going to be angry if they use and take other peoples stuff without asking and it makes them angry.

    No amount of not blaming and saying your angry has any effect on some people.
    They need a consequence to get through.
    One that they don’t like.
    Found doing the same back had them saying ok ok I get it now you made your point. Aha moment had, felt much better than all the moddycoddling, I feel angry, I don’t want my stuff being used without being asked, which had zero effect. And moving my stuff where they can no longer mess with it.



  106.  #106Femininewoman on November 28, 2013 at 6:13 am

    To the US Sirens Happy Thanksgiving to all. Enjoy your families and your turkey day. 🙂



  107.  #107Luzydel on November 28, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Reopened my POF profile; gotten a few emails not as much as I used to though. But I have changed and I do not attract the same type of men.

    I am very picky now; not I do not want to go on a date with someone I know I will not go beyond coffee. I give them the chance of a phone conversation and after that, I may or may not meet them.

    I see now how many times I went on dates with man who do not get me, but were so eager to find someone to have sex with that pretended to see if I bite the hook and fall for their lies.

    All POF men want sex, well all men want sex (nothing wrong with that) but the way some of them go about it is a turn off to me. I want a man to want to have sex with me as much as watching TV with me, and going out with me, and getting to know me, and enjoying my company. Yes for me they are mutually exclusive.



  108.  #108Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 7:08 am

    Luzydel I hear you.

    To me I only want to make love and share my body and love with an emotionally mature man in an exclusive loving relationship.
    That rules out any man who is trying to have sex with me before he is in love with me and wants a mutual exclusive loving relationship. If he is trying to have sex with me before that point he showing me with his actions that he is still emotionally immature in that area and sees women as objects to use for sex.
    I’m not available for that.



  109.  #109Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 7:09 am

    What is POF luzeydel?



  110.  #110Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Any man who is willing to have sex with me before knowing me is pretty much willing to have sex with women in general before he knows them. Yuck, that turns me off.



  111.  #111Dominique on November 28, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Tereana – 96 – Loving this. <3

    xxoo



  112.  #112Dominique on November 28, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Millie – 99 – How about this? You’re expressing how you feel without making him wrong. There’s nothing to apologize for since he’s a big boy and can handle his feelings. And you’re not offering a solution but asking him for one.

    “I like you and enjoy your company, and I feel good about what has happened between us, but it seems to me we’re going down a friends with benefits path, and this is not something I feel emotionally able to handle. What do you think?”

    xxoo



  113.  #113Emerson on November 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Ugh luzydel I hear u.
    I feel a little frustrated with the men I’m attracting….same thing just very needy for sex without doing the groundwork so to speak.
    I feel deflated and like I’ve lost some of my sparkle lately. One way to get it back is when I take really good care of myself. I intend to do that.
    Ive been visualizing some changes that I need in my life and they are happening…

    A few men I talk to on pof tell me they want to take me out but when it comes down to it they just want to get a room and come over or me go to their house. Wtf it catches me off guard and of course I don’t agree to it, but then it seems that’s all they intended all along. They didn’t intend to get to know me at all…so it seems. I don’t blame them for wanting sex but it seems very juvenile and shallow to just want the sex as if I’m a pound of meat for rent. Go get a hooker then.



  114.  #114Liquid Light on November 28, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Happy Thanksgiving sistas!!!

    Beautiful day here.

    I am thankful to my bro and sister in law for providing a wonderful Thanksgiving meal for me, my aunt, cousin and second cousin. Woohooo!



  115.  #115Millie on November 28, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    @Dominique 112–

    Oh I didn’t realize my first suggestion was making him wrong, but re-reading it, I see how that could be interpreted…

    Thank you, I trust your advice and your suggestion is much more concise! I like it!

    I realize I’m scared of letting him be the one to come up with a solution…because I’m scared to own up to my desire of “I want to date you.” I wanted to suggest we just be friends because he’s already said he doesn’t want a relationship.

    I really want to work on my self-confidence!



  116.  #116Kyla on November 28, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Thank you lovely ladies I feel

    I have a coffee date to go on in a few minutes, a lunch date tomorrow, a dinner date tomorrow, a trip to an art gallery Saturday afternoon and another dinner date Saturday night.. all without the phone call! And they are all coming to pick me up too, I feel really good about that.

    There’s also 3 guys that I’ve been emailing that wanted to take me out this weekend (and one of them I’ve noticed I feel more excited about then the rest) but as I’m already booked up and I’m not shuffling around for anyone I now have 3 dates for early next week too 🙂

    Mmm I feel confident and happy and thrilled!



  117.  #117Syreena on November 28, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Way to go Kyla, hope you have loads of fun.



  118.  #118Emerson on November 28, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    I really am thankful for everything I have right now in the moment… I have dreams that have come true and dreams that I still have in my heart and mind… I believe a higher power reveals one at a time…



  119.  #119Cupcake on December 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Dear Sirens-

    I’m writing because I’ve just moved to a new city and have gone on 3 dates in the last 2 days, and somehow I just want to reach out and touch the wall of this blog (if that’s possible!) and connect with all of you. The dates were kind of “Meh.”

    Date 1.) Coffee date Sunday morning. I meet the guy there and he already has his coffee. I sit at the table with him and we chit-chat. After 10 minutes I say, “Hey, I feel confused. I want coffee and I feel unsure about if I am expected to get it myself. What do you think?” He leapt to his feet and bought me a coffee. The conversation felt painfully slow. There were long pause. I could easily have baled him out, and instead I sat there thinking, “Out-girl him, Cupcake. He can row the boat.” Except he didn’t, he floundered. So after a while I said, “It feels like time for me to go. Thank you for the coffee.”

    Date 2.) The guy invited me for a drink. Again, conversation felt ponderous. His energy felt very INTENSE– lots of deep meaningful eye contact, and questions about whether or not I communicate with the Divine Source through prayer. (I said I didn’t have an email address for the Divine Source, so yes, prayer felt like the best means of communication I could muster.) I spent the entire date feeling like the energy was being sucked out of me.

    Date 3.) Went for a walk along a lake with this guy. He was attractive, intelligent and funny. The conversation didn’t click for quite a while. So I said, “This conversation feels weird to me. It feels like two people dribbling two basketballs in tandem, not shooting hoops together.” At first it felt like he went defensive, and then everything turned around and we actually had a conversation about how the conversation was going. And it ended up being a pretty fun date. The only caveat was that after we’d been walking for an hour, I realized that the 20 oz plastic sippy cup he’d been carrying around did not have tea or soda in it– It was full of wine. I smelled it on his breath and then noticed the straw was red on the inside.) Then he bought a 20 oz Fosters beer. So…I feel like those are bright red flags. (Note: date was for 2 in the afternoon. If you didn’t already find it a bit over the top.) Of the three, he was the only date that was the least bit fun. And he wants to see me again. He said tomorrow. I said probably not tomorrow.

    What do you guys think? With the alcohol thing going, do I even consider him for my CD rotation?

    Thanks-

    Cupcake



  120.  #120Tereana on December 2, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    It’s taken me forever to see these replies, but thank you, Millie! And I liked what you wrote to your guy. It felt really authentic. : )

    Dominique – thank you! 🙂

    Emerson, 98 – I love it! What a great idea. What you focus your energy on grows…



  121.  #121Rori Raye on December 3, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Cupcake – You seem pretty awesome to me! You talked REAL, you said the truth, you said what was on your mind…and numbers 2 and 3 don’t seem like matches for you. #1 – we don’t know about him, except that he jumped to once he knew what you needed. With him – and men like him – asking questions is an okay thing to do – “What do you like about your work?” What’s fun for you? – and see if he loosens up. This is a numbers game for you now – just keep doing what you’re doing…and stay WARM and OPEN! Love, Rori



  122.  #122Cupcake on December 3, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Hi, Rori-

    Thank you for your response. I couldn’t remember what blog post I had commented on and so wrote a second posting about date #3. I feel relieved to see your assessment that the drinking is a red flag that disqualifies him.

    I don’t know what I thought. That you’d say, “Sounds like your fear of intimacy getting in the way there, Cupcake! By all means, go for the guy who drinks 40 ounces of alcohol on your first date which isn’t even at a bar! But I do feel very relieved to read that it’s okay to drop him from the rotation.

    So now let me ask– Do I say, “It felt fun going for a walk with you, and I appreciate how funny you are. That said, I feel like we’re not a match and I’m not available to see you again.”

    Or do I say, “I don’t want to mislead you. I feel wary and uncomfortable dating men who put a lot of energy into drinking alcohol. I don’t like the way it feels, especially as someone who drinks very little myself. So I thank you for the walk and the conversation, and want to let you know that while I am flattered by your interest, I’m not available for further dates.”

    Basically, do I tell him why, or not?

    Hmmm….I’d appreciate your input.

    Thanks!

    Cupcake



  123.  #123Cupcake on December 3, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Also, re date #1– the quiet guy–

    When I left I told him that if he asked me out again, I would say yes, and that perhaps the conversation would feel easier at a second go-around. (I had said, earlier, hoping to help the conversation along, “These things always feel hard, don’t they? First dates.”

    So I assume that I just wait to see if he contacts me? I’m afraid the deafening silence may have shaken him up a bit. But I assume I just leave it at my having said if he tried again I’d say yes– you do not, I just want to be clear, advocate giving him a nudge because he’s so darned shy? (I don’t really care if I see him again or not. I’m just trying to get clear on how much help we should give to the guys who are that shy.)

    Thanks-

    Cupcake



  124.  #124Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 5:05 am

    I wanted to ask Rori and or Dominque or any other coaches is the coaching on ” I have no idea of what a mistake is and there is no right or wrong and not to judge based on and coming from the third force psychology premise from the work of Maslow and Carl Rogers, that they both experimented with?



  125.  #125Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 6:46 am

    Syreena – I’m not sure your question. I think you’re asking for me to comment on this?

    For me I don’t see anything as a mistake. Things may not turn out as you would want, go your way. You may inadvertently hurt someone, cause pain. You may lose your temper, say or so something you wish you hadn’t, and so on.

    And if you are aware, you will realize this. SO it’s not a mistake but a learning and growing experience. This is what life is about in part.

    Most people do not want to cause injury, use, abuse, or manipulate others, so I am referring to these kinds of people, most of us.

    xxoo



  126.  #126Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:18 am

    I understand that you and Rori and other coaches don’t see anything as a mistake or right or wrong
    What I wanted to know where the concept behind it came from for you or Rori and other coaches?

    When and how you came to that belief where it came from?

    Was it from counseling that you had?
    Or was it based on the works of Maslow and Rogers, who both for a time held that belief and the humanistic approach?
    Both?

    When did that belief occur?
    What changed your belief?
    As this is something that is passes down from our elders.
    They teach us the opposite that some things are right and some are wrong and the law of society and what will happen if we do something wrong and don’t follow those laws etc. And that people learn from making mistakes.



  127.  #127Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:19 am

    *isn’t something that is passed down from our elders.



  128.  #128Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 7:24 am

    And the last comment that you make.

    “Most people don’t want to cause injury abuse etc”

    Which is what Maslow and Rogers believed for a time. Hence my question about their teachings and belief of the third force psychology?



  129.  #129Dominique on December 10, 2013 at 8:34 am

    I’m not sure Syreena where I got this from. I want to say I came to it on my own which is in part true. I don’t remember reading this, and I certain;y wasn’t taught this. I must have picked bit and pieces up over the years.

    I don’t know that I don’t see right or wrong. It can be a fine line and a slippery slope on which to walk. A lot is perspective, yet there are some things which would feel bad (or wrong) to most anyone. Things are not necessarily one way or another, black or white.

    xxoo



  130.  #130Syreena on December 10, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Thanks for Sharing Dominique



  131.  #131Pam on December 20, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    I think I made a mistake…

    I finally met a man that I’m into and he is/was into me. But I decided to do this circular dating thing. I’ve been seeing him a couple of weeks. He freaked out when I told him I saw someone else. He asked me out and I told him I had plans. After, he asked me if I was on a date, that he had a feeling. I didn’t want to lie. I told him I was, but that the reason for the date was that I was ending it with the other guy. He was totally bummed. Will no longer see me.

    Why did I do this? Mistake.



  132.  #132Marina on December 30, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Dear Rori, (topic: break up or NOT? I want to avoid another MISTAKE!)
    I am pretty much desperate, confused and in an emotional limbo unable to make decisions. I know that deep inside somewhere in me I have the answer to ‘what do to’ but would love the point of view of someone like you with your insights and experiences and someone that is unbiased.
    Here is the brief: I have been in this relationship two years. We have been living together for over a year and somewhere in between we broke up (I left him) for three months and I rented elsewhere.
    We share all expenses and divide everything. He is a doctor and is studying to become a cardiologist. I work in energy (as in electricity from Soar PV and wind etc). We have ‘broken up’ so many times its crazy … the thing is that every time we break up next day he acts like nothing and asks if maybe we should to the movies or something … I just now discovered that he hates Christmas and he got very upset when I had a Christmas tree in the apartment. He is also very unhappy with his job. He told me that he is not unhappy with me but he is not happy … just in the middle and that is enough for him … I don’t understand. Wouldn’t he like to be happy? I do! He told me that he has low expectations of life .. to me he seems unhappy all the time. He dislikes his job and complains about his family. He has a lot of childish behaviors and we cannot really sit and talk because his nervousness makes him start playing video games. I encourage him to go out … he does sometimes and hangs out with his guy friends. I go out too on my own. I do my own things. I actually do not doubt he loves me and I love him. The issue is: CAN WE REALLY BE HAPPY? SHOULD I RISK MORE TIME TO TRY THIS OUT? We work well together as partners and doing things and all. But I am very romantic and he is not. I feel that maybe there is a better match out there for me, like he said, someone that I not so negative, that likes the same things I do like Christmas and celebrations and likes the details. But the other part of me wants to see if maybe … if I relax more, we could be happy and have an awesome relationship. Just to let you know, we did have an awesome relationship. We did awesome at all levels. Last night he also told me that he is does not think he can have sex as much as I want. He is 39 and I am 27. We have sex about three times a month. I would like that to be a weekly number. Its not even that much. I do not know what to do and what to think. If I leave tis would be the final tie and decision. We cannot play around anymore and such.
    Plus a part of me also cannot forget some pretty hurtful things he said and did to me in the past. No cheating though. But his anger got the best of him many times verbally … Ugh … frustrated and exhausted … would love your input and thoughts on how to go about this.
    XO!



  133.  #133Rori Raye on December 30, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Marina – First of all – though sex is individual – even at 39, 3 times a month would never seem like enough to me, and at 27, it wouldn’t even be close.

    Breaking up and breaking up just says neither of you have the communication skills to work out what always needs to be worked out in a marriage.

    Please work with the ebook, then get all the programs and see how you can completely change everything you think about how relationships and love and men work – perhaps everything can change for you – including the sex – before you have to “analyze” what’s “wrong” and what can be fixed here. Love, Rori



  134.  #134Marina on December 30, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Dear Rori,
    Thank you for getting back to me so promptly 🙂
    I did buy the package for your program and probably have applied 90% of it … things get better only for a couple of days and then goes back to before … you are right. Only yesterday we have the first conversation which was with no screaming or crying and just seating there. I’ll re-read some chapters and reapply some things … I just don’t want to feel that I did not do enough or that I lost what could have been the best thing in my life … hmmm and how to let go of the hurtful past … and you are right about the intimacy aspect. I do not want to live so unsatisfying living by the side of the man I want. I will review some of your material. He is waiting on an answer from me to see if we are or not going to continue this relationship … I want to say yes, but I also want to commence a clean 2014 … so hard to make this decision.
    LOVE
    Marina