The “No Contact Rule” And Urgency – What To Do?

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questionmarkGreat Question:

Hi Rori,

I am working on practicing the “feeling” statements whenever I can – on the phone, with the checkout guy in the grocery, etc. I have been reading the ebook, and continuing through the classes. I’ve been working on “catching” myself, and consciously relaxing my shoulders, pelvis, etc. And writing things as I can. But I am having trouble with “urgency.”

And I am hoping that the more I practice Circular Dating, the more this will go away…but right now, after that initial contact, I’ve had two days of nothing. So, I’m trying to honor my feeling of disappointment, respect it, and continue to learn…but I am having trouble letting go of the worry that I’ve blown my chance.

I know that I’m not allowed to beat myself up, so I keep trying to catch that worry, respect it, and tell it that I am now in control…I guess I’m looking for some reassurance here, since everyone else I know would think I’m absolutely crazy to even consider anything else with Ron. I know he has difficulty processing emotion – almost like Asperger’s – though I’m not sure about that.

I am trying to be in the present, but I keep having this vision of the small wedding I thought maybe we’d be having this summer…I know, I can’t control it. The more I try to force or control it, the more it will slip through my grasp.

Am I missing something, or do I just keep going on this same path for now? Because I desperately want to call him and share stuff with him…find out about what he’s doing, how his day was, etc. And I know that I have to lean back…for someone who has always taken the bull by the horns, this is really hard.


My Answer:

Barb – This is the point where I don’t want to be telling you what to do.

This is where I want you to start experiencing DOING these Tools, practicing like mad, and learning to trust yourself.

In my view, Ron is irrelevant to the work you’re doing – he’s only there to reflect how your inner work is going.

His being gone could simply mean you don’t need him anymore as a lesson, and his showing up could mean there’s more here to be explored.

I do know this – and it’s the same as every relationship coach in the world, and everything you read will tell you: The “No Contact Rule.”

This basically states that it takes a man about 8 weeks (Dr. Pat Allen started this all many years ago) to MISS you.

And that by reaching out and contacting him, you basically ADD another 8 weeks to the process. Every time you reach out, you start from zero again.

I personally don’t like rules (except my own “Four Rules…”!).

I want you to discover for yourself what works for you. An Asperger’s man (this is at the low end of the Autism spectrum – and is more common than you’d think, especially in men – though it’s not to be confused with a man who’s simply highly sensitive, or prone to shut down emotionally, or has difficulty processing a lot of input at once…so please don’t try to clinically “label” any man you know or meet…) will have even more difficulty than a “regular” man in handling stimulation and input.

He will just shut down. That’s what you’ve noticed. And yet, the other day, as you used the Tools – he talked and talked. And now he’s withdrawn again.

It may be that if you’re not in front of him – he simply “forgets.”

He may simply not be able to have a relationship without a woman pushing it and leading it and making it happen – and then – he can’t stand her pushing and shoving.

You have to decide for yourself what you want to do. There is nothing that says you can’t be the MAN in a relationship, and allow the man to follow you.

The thing is – this one is very tricky, and you need superb skills to know when to lead and when to follow.

It’s going to take time and practice for you to learn these skills out there in the world Circular Dating, flirting, going out with other men, discovering how you operate and what works.

The sense of urgency is the obstacle here – it’s working against you.

Breathing, Circular Dating, expanding your world and the men you engage with, practicing the Tools with everyone will help you practice reducing urgency, because those new experiences will trigger that sense of urgency!

It’s very difficult to learn about ourselves and make shifts and changes in patterns we can’t experience – patterns we’re keeping hidden away.

The work here is to love every discovery, love every step of the way, every part of yourself you open up.

My vote is for you to pick a timeline – 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 2 weeks – whatever you want, where you will do your best to focus AWAY from him and not contact him.

And then, at the end of that time you’ve set for yourself, you get to revisit, and reconsider what you want to do.

You cannot “wreck” something that is not meant to “be” just by contacting a man.

You can cause yourself way more grief by putting out effort and not getting the result you want.

Best thing is ALWAYS to Circular Date and focus on LEARNING!!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Daria on July 22, 2013 at 11:23 am

    First one! and i had sex with Dman! and it was awesome!

    i got my pussy ate too!

    and i talked about it all day and almost didnt do it till he got on my page!

    i feel so good!

  2.  #2Daria on July 22, 2013 at 11:34 am

    ufff i coulda been the man and had Securityman follow me. like the other girl. i feel jealous.

    she subtly lead. i leaned back. he seemed more into me in person…

    but when i was gone would ‘forget’

    i knew i could easily lead like her

    with easy subtle things

    i feel shaky

    that didnt actually bother me or even drain me… to do so…

    its easy for me and i feel experienced and even good doing it

    did i sabotage it by not doing so?


    i feel triggered with shakyness sadness and maybe fear

    how would things be different if i led?

    if i led…

    i woulda stood up to her leading

    instead of allow her to lead him when im around

    i woulda contacted him

    i woulda took him to my area to familiarize him with it

    i woulda helped him with his interviews

    i wouldve agreed to participate in his business goals when he asked me to

    i mighta even told him to leave her

    i feel shaky

    its been a month….

    another month will make it 8 weeks and i bet he’ll miss me

  3.  #3Daria on July 22, 2013 at 11:44 am

    and… Dman is really not in a relationship anymore… it feels better with him

    i felt good when i said to him i like you a lot and he said i like you a lot too

    and he kissed me goodbye


    i feel like im getting closer to him

    i think this is cuz i insisted on having my nani ate and communicated through the awkwardness and it in my head translated to high status for me


    and since he was doing something for me he fell into feelings for me too

    woo hooo 🙂

    i feel so happy and it felt so good and i feel so proud and happy hehe

  4.  #4Daria on July 22, 2013 at 11:47 am

    i had sex! i had sex! i had sex!!

  5.  #5Daria on July 22, 2013 at 11:48 am

    im having an active sex life! and i felt GOOD emotionaly both times (last month and this month)

    ive been wanting my sex life to be active and good for years and now its happening wooo hooo!!

  6.  #6Daria on July 22, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    im ready for more sex! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  7.  #7April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    “It may be that if you’re not in front of him – he simply “forgets.”

    Yup, that’s the one. And for a siren who wants to be treasured and adored and, like Elsie, wants her man to wake each day feeling like he’s won the lottery… well, it just doesn’t feel good.

    Who wants to be forgotten? Although given a choice between that and an in-your-face possesive man… I would choose indifference..

    I mean – if it’s true – that he forgets me when I’m not in front of him (and sometimes when I am!) am I to just accept him as he is?
    I’d rather keep feeling my choices, and stay open to options of greater joy.

  8.  #8Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    @April Rose – I feel honored that you wrote about me. 🙂 That YOU remembered me and didnt forget. 🙂 haha!

    Well, after the date Friday, it was texting ALL day Sat. and then he texted me ALL day on Sunday – so sweet. And cute. He even called me “darling” … GS HATES pet nicknames and I love them, and CollegeCD already has a few unique ones for me – I love it.

    He wants to Io see me again and he is trying to figure out his schedule and mine. (kids, you know and shuffling!) But he is rowing this boat, and I’m getting my tan on. 🙂

    GS is out of town for work. He called me today for a work related question. And so I answered. Remember he didnt contact me at ALL over the weekend. It was interesting. The conversation felt……platonic. Thats the best way I could describe it. I”m not mad at GS – he just I dont think has the capacity to be what I need. Now, I also dont think he ever will because of his ISTP and his avoidant personality in relaitonships will not lend itself to getting the help he needs to develop. I do love him, but I love what he was for me, and what he helped me with and that he pulled me out from the depths of despair. I do love him for that and he will always have a place in my heart. I do not know if we end up together, and I”m ok either way now. REALLY REALLY ok….really. And that feels rediculously awesome.

    So, after that, our line got disonnected because of spotty service, and then he texted and said “Oh, I had hoped to ask you about your weekend, did you have a good weekend?” I just answered “haha….yes, I did…thank you.” And that was it.

    The difference between CollegeCD and GS is amazing. AMAZING.

    Now, I just have to make sure not to focus just on CollegeCD – or else I’ll be in the same boat as before. 🙂

  9.  #9Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    Well I was taken by surprise when “M” e-mailed me today to say:
    “Seems I am the Avoidant. That explains why we have the conflict we do. Which will never go away. ”

    I sent him a book review on the ATTACHED book and it was from a phd in psychology who says that he disagrees with the books premice that avoidants and anxious can’t work it out…

    but I didn’t notice that there was a link to a quiz.. apparently “M” took the quiz…

    so I was crying when I read his e-mail… b/c I wasn’t sure what that meant… yet he is right the conflict started with him creating arguments, over silly stuff..which I knew had nothing to do with the silly stuff.. like crickets..

    but now that the crying has stopped! I realize he maybe right… it could just be the thing that breaks us up… most especially if, he isn’t willing to work on it… and his e-mail would clearly suggest he isn’t though when I did the test in the book he didn’t score an avoidant..

    I’m sad… and yet, I’m ok! if he wants to end it then nothing I can do about…


  10.  #10April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 3:34 pm


    The word avoidant makes me feel shuddery and cold. I’m considering stopping reading all books that analyse us humans.

    To me, to think he flew all the way to god-knows-where to help his sister, it does not suggest avoiding contact with his close ones.

    I believe men pull away when they perceive any form of disrespect. And, when a woman insists on being right, or defending herself, or doing ANY masculine stuff, men pick it up, and recoil.

    ‘Avoidant’ could be translated to ‘very sensitive to unfeminine signals put out by women’.
    I’m relating this to my own experience. I love a good rumbunctious debate. Can’t do it with WM. He can’t handle it. It appears to repulse him when I get a bit feisty. He needs to feel my vulnerable feminine side in order to come/stay close to me.

  11.  #11April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    I choose to believe we are all different, and that I have the option to ‘adapt’ to a man, as Rori says.

    Talking to WM today it became clear that he is aware that I have the ideas first, and that energy flows from me to him in the relationship.
    He was aware of the difficulties of my situation – in which I am the one asking that he initiate (and therefore I am initiating with my request), and I am the one suggesting that HE be the one to make the suggestions!!

    I don’t know that I want to adapt to this dynamic in the long term. I’m feeling more and more adrift and drained and defeated. Losing vibrancy in myself.

  12.  #12Luzydel on July 22, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    CaptainCD and I met again this weekend; he invited me to his place and I stayed until yesterday night…

    I see things clearly and I am still cding; Captain was so sweet and my suspicions of him hiding something went away when he invited me over… he is just a man who doesn’t know yet where things are going and me pressuring him to know will not help. So I am going to keep what I am doing…

  13.  #13Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    @ April Rose THANKS!

    I’m just no good at this… it’s too hard.. I try and I’m just tired…overwhelmed and depressed! I don’t know if I’m coming or going…

    “M” texted me… I have meditation now… oh he just e-mails me.. and then I’m like what do I tell my child about our trip in 2days.. I just said are we still going on Thursday I need to tell E…

    he said I have meditation now…

    part of me just wants to do no contact… for a few days… not to control but b/c I don’t know what else to do… or not do…

    I don’t know about adapting to a man…that almost sounds like changing myself to suit him… I love a good banter and so does he… but if it is to create distance that is altogether a different story…

    I think Dominique is right… this one is just too hard… I need easy.. but as soon as I say that then part of me says wait, most of the time it is easy…..

    I want to hide in a cave until I’m too old to worry about a relationship… and just cry and cry and cry.. until there is nothing left to cry…

    I feel screwed


  14.  #14April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 3:57 pm


    I’m reposting here something that Femininwoman wrote on the last thread.

    I’m reading it as a feeling message to myself, to remind me of what makes my heart feel peaceful.
    And I agree with you. I want my relationship to feel easy.

    ““…A girl needs cuddles and kisses and constant communication and closeness because you need to feel his energy coming towards you. A girl needs touching and laughter to feel connected and the distance and long silences feel like disconnection to you.”

  15.  #15April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    I’m learning to feel clearer and clearer on what it is I want.
    And staying open to receiving that.

  16.  #16April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Each lightbulb moment, each jigsaw piece of clarity – from Rori, from you women – is a jewel that feels oh so precious. I’m collecting these gems in a bowl in my heart… and they are showing me who I am.

  17.  #17Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    @AprilRose is that a suggestion to say to him?

    Here is the thing… I see him 3-4 times a week… and talk on the phone maybe one night we don’t see each other… it depends..

    I get cuddles and touches and laughter and hand holding and kisses and wonderful love making and he has sacrificed so much for this relationship… ie lack of sleep, lost income, meditation and etc…

    So, if I say that to him, he might feel that he isn’t doing enough…

    I think the issue is that I feel his need to escape… and he acts out when he doesn’t get it… so that is what the issue is, not that I don’t get all those things from him, when I’m around him…

    I wish I had a script for that…

    Thanks! April


  18.  #18April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    1078: Femininewoman says:

    What do I most deeply desire to experience with my beloved?

    What do I most deeply desire to contribute to the world through this partnership?

  19.  #19Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    I am sinking deeper into this sadness and this doing nothing …

    I got back in bed and am tapping videos. So many things I was so worked up about that now just feel like words …

    Seeing how futile it was to try to fit myself into conventional relationship molds … they just don’t fit …

    Most of the people I know are still doing now what they were doing three years ago … while nothing I was doing then seems to fit me anymore … there’s no going back and I don’t know where the road goes from here …

  20.  #20Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    I just have to add to this conversation that solid secures feel put off by the “pulling” and “pushing” behavior of those who are very anxious and unable to take responsibility for their feelings.

    Very anxious attachers will cause secures to appear and even feel avoidant.

    This is especially true for secures who have a lot of responsibility and/or a lot of emotional things they are going through or stress etc. Secures who don’t have much else on their plate are more able to provide the comfort and extra attention than an anxious attacher needs.

  21.  #21April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:13 pm


    No I didn’t mean it as something to say to him. Not at all. I was trying to discover if you felt the same way I do.
    I see now that you have what you want – when you are together.

    I feel surprised and delighted and somewhat envious that you and he share those things together.

    Yet, there is something troubling you….
    Do you love him more than he loves you? Or are you just needy? Lol

  22.  #22Dominique on July 22, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    #14 – I don’t know that I can agree with the constant communication and closeness part; this feels like pressure, demands, yet consistent communication and closeness, yes.


  23.  #23April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Yes Dominique,

    That feels better, replacing ‘constant’ with consistent.
    Constant communication and closeness could feel stifling.

  24.  #24April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    I feel so weird, and like screaming. I am thinking of starting a weekly ‘screaming, venting or simply sulking’ session for women in the town where I live.

    Half an hour of letting out the misery, followed by tea and biscuits and laughter.

  25.  #25LoveAlways on July 22, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    This post triggered me. I feel angry about my own situation. I initiated no contact in order to stop overfunctioning. However, now, after nearly two years of following Rori’s programs/rules/etc., I feel differently than I ever have about this process. I feel that when I don’t hear from a man that I am not his priority, that there are other more important things/people in his life. And that is fine, his little red wagon – push it or pull. BUT I deserve to be a priority . . . so if I’m not hearing from him (regardless to the time frame), that makes room for me to give time to someone who wants to make me his PRIORITY. . . several someones. The timeline is up to me. That was the most important part of Rori’s response in this post – that Barb must decide the time period. The no contact rule works against men in my opinion. It is a risk not to contact a woman he is interested in – he loses his place in her rotation of men.

  26.  #26LoveAlways on July 22, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    And I deal with urgency every day, the thought of him, the memories, and I push them away, I scream in my head out out out (I would fit in fine with your group April Rose 😀 ), and as the moment passes, I feel better and urgency dies down. I feel a little bit stronger every time.

  27.  #27April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Are you getting out and having fun and smiling at men and letting them heal you?

  28.  #28Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    April Rose, I would come to that group if I lived near you. 🙂 <3

  29.  #29April Rose on July 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Yay Melanie

  30.  #30LoveAlways on July 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Has my picker been off? Has my boy been picking the men? Have I ignored the red flags too often? Perhaps the answer to each question is yes, but the more important factor is that My Needs have not been met by any of the men who I’ve involved myself with in my later adult life – the most omnipotent needs is man who is evolved ALREADY. Not someone who wants to be, or recognizes or pretends to be evolved, but someone who is already there and can teach me a few things. Odd, perhaps, but this is a breakthrough for me!! It changes my boundaries, foundation, lifestyle, everything. I FELT this, and then the thought came to mind. . . WOW!

  31.  #31Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    I don’t feel like analyzing anything or anyone … all these concepts feel dizzying and separating … I feel like “rules” and concepts just get in the way of connection … nobody else has to feel the same way I do … I’m just expressing …

  32.  #32LoveAlways on July 22, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    April Rose – yes, everyday, and it makes me feel good, but I want more, I need more, and I’m going to do more, because I feel like I’m just scratching the surface cding, I want deeper more rooted experiences, experimenting, exploring, expressing . . . lol, you get the idea 😀

  33.  #33Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Boundaries feel different to me … like, I don’t want to private message with men who aren’t supporting me financially … that’s not a “rule” and it can evolve over time … it’s just a boundary that works for me right now …

  34.  #34Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 4:41 pm


    I don’t understand can you explain?

    I’m a secure… and yes under stress some anxious comes out… a secure…



  35.  #35Liquid Light on July 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Half an hour of letting out the misery, followed by tea and biscuits and laughter.

    hahahaha, April Rose, wish I lived there!!!

  36.  #36Senior Lady Vibe on July 22, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Oops missed new thread and didn’t have time to read all in old one…

    Off to the forest

    1615: Senior Lady Vibe says:

    @1393: Tereana

    @1394: Femininewoman
    Oh, I just make up my own rituals. I’m doing one involving key lime pie and a walk in the forest. Yum!


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:42pm

  37.  #37Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Could be true I might love him more than he loves me…

    am I if anything I’m more independent… as a superwoman mom… but I’m working on it…

    and he is going through lots of stuff… grief he hasn’t dealt with, and now I find out his Dad has skin cancer all over his face and chest… so given what he is going through… he is scared..

    I don’t want to get into his head, but that would be my guess…

    I can ask him if he thinks I’m needy…

    and just b/c I feel the need to say this… I feel I do take responsibility for me feelings, and actions as I’ve shown on this blog, by my looking at myself and healing and also taking responsibility for my actions…even today… realizing that I might have been not leaning back in the correct way…

  38.  #38Miss Bells on July 22, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    I wonder if the eight weeks to be missed applies if I am in a relationship. Shouldn’t he miss me when I travel or go to my house for a few days?
    He always calls pretty fast. I am confused about the eight weeks.

  39.  #39Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 4:54 pm


    I really would like to know if there is something you see in me that I’m not taking responsibility for… b/c as of now.. I’m ripe looking to look at things and really ready to heal them.. plus I’m getting ready to lose “M”…

    He just e-mailed me and said let’s cancel the trip…

    So,please, let me know if there is something you see…



  40.  #40Zia on July 22, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    What up sirens? I’m feeling gooooood today!

  41.  #41Zia on July 22, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I also feel hungry

  42.  #42Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 5:09 pm


    Did he say why he wants to cancel the trip?

    I could be wrong but it does seem to me that you are too focused on analyzing him and trying to label him.

    What if you focused more on Rori’s tools . . . sinking into your feelings, speaking from there…. ? How do you FEEL?


    ~ Melanie

  43.  #43Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    Well I wasn’t analyzing him when we were talking about the book… I was speaking in vague terms as if, I’m just interested in the book…. and he ask me what I thought he was, and I said I don’t know.. I took the test for me not to analyze you..I didn’t take the test until late last night just b/c he ask…

    I did send him the link b/c I didn’t want him to think it was the God’s word… and the article was positive.. but! your right I might be trying to analyze me and him and everything so I can feel safe….that i’ll admit…

    he just said we have some serious talking to do… before we all go on a trip…

    thanks for your bluntness…


  44.  #44Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    I like this … “I have absolutely no idea what’s going on for him”

  45.  #45Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 5:30 pm


    true! I have not idea what is going on for him…


  46.  #46Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 5:31 pm


    OK – You just said that you wanted people to be honest with you…..if there is something we see. Lisa, I see a man who is avoidant by the Attached book. I know people on here dont like labels. But sometimes someone is that label and thats a fact. And he admitted it. And the thing with avoidant attached is that they dont WANT to change – which is also what he said.

    I think this is who he is. Just like GS for me. This IS who he is. His family crisis, his meditation, his rest, his moods…..they are all more important than you. Now if that is something that you can live with then, I say be with him. The problem is that it doesnt seem like you like HIM very much. You like the way you wish he was a LOT. But that isnt how he is. Its not how he ever was. And it will probably never be him.

    I dont see anything that shows me that he is going to be anyhting different. He has a life that he is living. He isnt making room for you except when he wants to make room. I only know this because, well, its what Ijust went through with GS.

    My suggestion to you is that you circular date right now, and let him know you are doing so. It will get your mind off of all of this, and he will either step up, or you wont care anymore.

    Thats my opinion, I hope it doesnt trigger you – I really do care about you – and I see a lot of my situation in yours..

  47.  #47Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 5:35 pm


    I agree b/c he said we needed to have a seirous talk but only after his friend leaves..

    I send him a message and say that “I’m feeling weird b/c I don’t feel I have a say in when we talk, it is better for me to talk now. I have a phone appt at 9:30. Can you please call now?”

    I haven’t heard back… part of me wants to call him b/c my daughter’s feelings are involved here.. but I guess that is leaning forward…

    So, I guess I have to wait…


  48.  #48Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Question for all of you from me regarding leaning forward. CollegeCD asked me if I would ever ask him on a date which I mentioned on here before, that I wouldnt.

    I have never texted him first ever except one time when I really needed help with a computer problem.

    He had to stay up really late for a work project (really late!) and then I know he had mindless trainings today, and has a sunburn.

    I have thought about him all day, and wondered if I could text him that I was thinking of him.

    I”m new to all of this so I’m thinking that ANY time you text first its leaning forward. So, I”m REALLY hesitant to EVER do it.

    We spent 7 hours on Friday, and then he texted me all day Sat and all day Sunday (I never initiated.)

    So, I can take it or leave it – texting him. I would love for him to know that I was thinking about him but then again, I want to lean back so he can fill the space.

    I dont want to seem TOO eager, but want to let him know I was thinking of him.

    Thoughts? (By the way, I”m totally not concerned about this – it feels interesting and easy, just feel more curious about all of your answers more than anything.) 🙂

  49.  #49Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    @Lisa – I do understand. I have children that were involved too with GS. I get it. He has said he isnt going on the trip. I think for your sake and your daughters sake, instead of waiting for HIM to call YOU……YOU JUST MAKE THE DECISION FOR YOURSELF.

    Just move on and make the decision this minute to circular date and then it wont matter what he says to you on the phone. Or if he even calls. Or even emails back that he will call. Or wont call. Or has to meditate. Or has to go see his family. Or has to go to the bathroom. 🙂 Whatever 🙂 You will have made the decision for yourself. I think part of the problem is that you feel helpless and that you have given this man so much power over you and your daughter and your happiness. Please know I”m talking from total experience here. Please come over to my side……I have a glass of wine waiting here for you – its a good side to be on. 🙂 I promise. 🙂 LOL

  50.  #50Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    I just realized he said he will have a talk with you when his friend leaves. That sounds like a parent talking to a child.

    “I will talk with you when I’m done over here….”

    It sounds like he almost relishes the fact that he has this power over you. Maybe even unconsciously. I know that GS really likes that he has a power over me. He doesnt like it when I take that back.

  51.  #51Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 5:48 pm


    I’m not mad or frustrated with you, no and triggers only lead me to look at myself…

    I’m looking at what you said… I can find some truth in it…

    and I’ll continue to look at it…

    the difference is with me… is that I don’t have chemistry with “M”.. I don’t have the oxycodon thing… and 4 days a week spending time with me… isn’t bad… but there is an element of me not being a priority and it could be that he is feeling that I’m wanting more from him than he can give right now… like GS I guess..

    {{{ Hugs }}}


  52.  #52Zia on July 22, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Elsie – the general rule i get re texting (and this isn’t just from rori raye’s stuff, but from male relationship coaches too) is not to send a nothing text, or a reaching out text, in the “courtship” stage. It’s ok and advisable to do this when you’re actually in a relationship, but during the first few dates it’s generally just let him do all the work. But of course you can do what you want 🙂

  53.  #53Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Ugh. I shouldnt have. I just shouldnt have.

    I just checked and he is online on right now.

    I just shouldnt have checked. Ugh.

    He isnt doing anything wrong. I just wish he weren’t on there.

  54.  #54Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Ugh, I’m just going to say in feeling messages that I feel very uncomfortable and frustrated about the labeling of attachment styles…. Just my own feelings… 🙁

  55.  #55Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    … which is really ironic since I am currently working on writing some attachment style assessments. 🙂 *laughing at myself a little*

  56.  #56Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    @MMM – Have you read the book attached?

  57.  #57Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    May I just say, I don’t like labels… I didn’t like being called ugly growing up, didn’t like being called a battered wife, and I didn’t like being labeled with PTSD…. which I don’t have now…

    and I was just reading the book so I could understand… it wasn’t meant to label anyone…

    and I’m laughing with you…


  58.  #58Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Elsie, yes, I read it when it first came out, along with other books and attachment studies through the years.

  59.  #59Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    @Zia – Ok thats good to know. He and I knew each other 20 years ago in college, so he isnt a stranger to me, but this is definitely a “courtship” period of time between us now since we were only ever friends in college. 🙂

    I am feeling I think…….I think I feel rejected. Isnt that silly? So silly. I guess I feel like our magical Friday and the whole magical texting over the weekend is somehow ruined because he would rather be on instead of texting me now. Huh. Why do I feel that way? He himself said that all of his matches on were duds… why is he back there after not having been on for 4 days?

    I feel like ….. OH! I feel like maybe I wasnt enough, and he is still searching. Thats how I feel. How silly is it that my negative voices have already started to kick in. Interesting.

    Go ahead CollegeCD. Look on You wont find anyone on there like me for you. 🙂

    There is part of me that wants to text him now. Maybe to distract him from But I also do want to see how his day went. I know he must hve been up very late and had training all day. But I guess he isnt TOO tired, if he is on right? LOL.

    Thoughts? I want to use all my tools and be very healthy in this one realtionship, so please tell me your thoughts. 🙂

    Ironically, I”m not a mess at all. I”m more curious about my feelings more than anything else.

  60.  #60Zia on July 22, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Elsie – you need to get out and get more men in your funnel, and circular date properly (at least 3 remember!) you’re going down the laser focus path which is the opposite of what CD’ing is about.

  61.  #61Zia on July 22, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    Elsie – why he is on there is not your concern, and not your business (sorry if that is harsh). If you’re not able to go on there without checking if he’s been online, maybe you should stay off there and use a different online dating service..

  62.  #62Zia on July 22, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Elsie – one question though, does have an app that you can install on your phone? Beacuse I know with other sites they do, and it will notify you if you get a message from someone etc. So maybe he has an app, received a message or some sort of notification, and that’s why he’s on there. Some of them even show people as constantly online when the apps just installed.

  63.  #63Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Go me.

    I just cancelled my subscription to I was only on there to lurk and look around anyway, I am not ready for that yet. But in doing so, I found CollegeCD was on there – months and months ago.

    The point is that now, in the last week, I have used it to “check up” on him.

    I already dont like how I feel about that. He can do whatever he wants.

    So I just cancelled my account. I cant get on anymore. I dont want to have those bad feelings.

    If he wants to be with me he can be with me if he doesnt he doesnt. I am not going to guess what he is thinking and make myself feel bad in the process by continuing to look to see if he is on or not.

    Done. 🙂 I feel better already about MYSELF.

  64.  #64Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    @Zia – I’m not sure if has that or not – and dont care. 🙂

    I took your advice before you even gave it. I gave that same advice to myself as I was taking a bubble bath.

    I know what happened between us on Friday, and the fact that he texted me non stop all weekend.

    Go ahead. Let him look on He wont find anyone else on there like me. LOL!!!!

    At the same time, I do feel a twinge of rejection…, why is he on there, when he could be calling me, or texting me, etc.

    I just decided I didnt want to be the girl that would check up on a guy on – so I’m not. 🙂

  65.  #65Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    “I have absolutely no idea what is going on for him.”

    Unless he tells me, and even then I’m hearing it through my own filters.

    I can only receive miracles if I leave open the possibility that I’m wrong about all my judgments and my fears and my pessimism and my labels.

  66.  #66Zia on July 22, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    Elsie – we’re in sync!! well done 🙂

  67.  #67Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    I love that, Erika.

  68.  #68Femininewoman on July 22, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    “Here’s what is going through the uninterested man’s mind when a woman calls him first.

    “Hi, Jacob, this is Angie. I just called to say hi.”
    Oh, what’s this all about? She must like me a lot more than I did her. Maybe there’s something about her that turns men off, or she would not need to be calling me up. She obviously doesn’t have guys after her.

    When You Don’t Call, You Raise His Perception Of Your Desirability

    Here’s the truth, and one that men instinctively know: a busy, sought after, desirable and desired woman will not have the time or the need to call a man with some flimsy and desired woman will not have the time or the need to call a man with some flimsy. The desirable woman knows that she is a rare jewel. ”

    From Mimi Tanner’s Calling Men guide

  69.  #69Femininewoman on July 22, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Can you please call now?”

    This feels yuck.

  70.  #70Zia on July 22, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    I feel irritated by the contact with houseEx, still. I feel irritated and resentful that he’s trying to control me, tell me what to do, i feels like he’s trying to manipulate me to get his way. I feel resentful because it reminds me of how much I put up with when I was with him. He is the same person, I am not. I am not the same person I was when I was with him. So it’s ok to feel this way. I love my irritation. Our relationship was a purposeful one, and it served its purpose. I feel grateful for the lessons our relationship showed me. I forgive myself. I feel confident the universe will unbind us at the perfect moment.

  71.  #71Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    @Zia – great minds think alike. I already feel better.

    I have decided to go to bed early. If he texts me, I am not answering. Not to be mean, or snarky, but I just need some sleep. 🙂

    @Feminine Woman – LOVE it. Perfect. Exactly.

    Thanks!!! And I’m so glad I didnt text to ask about his day. I really wanted to know – and it probably would have been ok, but it would have gone against my “I’m not rowing the boat” speech.

  72.  #72Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Elsie – I usually have a time in the evening that I use as a cut off (usually around 9/9:30). I’ll put my phone on silent and plug it in to charge and any texts I get after that point I don’t answer till the morning.

  73.  #73Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    @Zia – when my soon to be ex husband is acting like a jack*** I think to myself “Thanks!!!! Thank you for the gift – the gift of reminding me once again why I am not with you!” 🙂

  74.  #74Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    I just don’t like applying these concepts. It feels exhausting. If my intuition says to call, and I don’t, it’s kinda like if I want to eat a piece of chocolate, and I don’t … all it does is increase the craving …

    I don’t know if the recent guy I was with was applying some kind of “tactics and strategies” but it sure felt like he was. I noticed some months in to our conversations that he would repeat back almost everything I said and not add anything to it. I asked him if he knew he was doing this, and he said yes. I don’t know what was going on for him, but as time went on, things felt so inauthentic that it would not surprise me at all if he was actually using psychological “tactics” to win me over …

    I’m not going to make assumptions yet in our last conversation right before I removed him from my life, he actually said that what he did while I was traveling that felt so awful to me was an “experiment” …

    It wasn’t what he said or did that felt awful, it was the energy behind it. And my sense is that any kind of manipulating what we do and say instead of doing what feels authentic can turn into really weird-feeling energy on the receiving end. I also get that we are changing dysfunctional patterns here so we may want to get still and present before reaching out, we may want to try out new ways of being … yet I feel very skeptical of “rules” designed to make us appear “more attractive.” It just feels so inauthentic and separating to me. Nobody has to agree with me, this is just how I feel.

  75.  #75Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Elsie: I listened to a GREAT call this morning with Lisa Nichols and this was what really resonated with me:

    “She also shared the three types of relationships experienced in life: Lifetime, where the relationship stays with us; Life-Giving, which is often short-term and can be from one day to two years; and Purposeful, which have a divine purpose or several purposes, and when the purpose is complete, the relationship ends.

    “Life-giving can be a chance encounter, but we have the most challenge with purposeful. We could have met that person in order to start a business, or for children to be born, or to find our voice,” Nichols said. “The quality of your life-long partnership depends on how much completion work you did on the past relationships because otherwise you are bringing all that in.””

    When I view my past relationships as purposeful, which they were, it makes it a lot easier to be ok with it all. And that’s what i have to keep in mind when dealing with my ex… I think. Just trust that if there is still something I need to learn with all this, I’ll learn it, and then he’ll be gone for good!

  76.  #76Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    @Zia – well, I have never had a cut off but he usually texts around 8:30 to 9:30 but I never talk past 10:15pm or so – we seem to both go to bed around then.

    But I am fussy tonight because he could have texted me and didnt.

    I am feeling the magic of the weekend wearing off even though he has done nothing wrong.

    Why do I feel like that? Huh. I wonder.

  77.  #77Melanie Murphy Myer on July 22, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    I agree with you, Erika. 🙂 In fact, I just texted a guy. I think when there is obsessive energy behind the “not calling,” it’s actually worse. I think they can feel it.

  78.  #78Femininewoman on July 22, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Zia I have been listening into that Summit also. I posted some of what Lisa said in the last thread.

    Really empowering

  79.  #79Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Actually, I take that back … it was ALSO what he said and what he did that felt awful – like the forced candlelight dinner and the super presumptuous email.

    What I’m saying is that even when he was not contacting me or “playing it cool,” it still felt really weird because (as it turned out) he was not being authentic at all …

  80.  #80Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Erika ” yet I feel very skeptical of “rules” designed to make us appear “more attractive.” It just feels so inauthentic and separating to me.”

    I hear you on this one. I started with Rori’s stuff (and everything for that matter) as a way to be more attractive, and to win my ex back. That was my purpose in beginning it. However, the more I progressed and the further I went on this path, the more it turned into what *I* want. And so I have been picking and choosing things that I want to use to make me a better person for me… to be happier in my skin, to be less anxious, more solid and grounded. I don’t like game playing or manipulating when it comes to relationships – and people who do this will find themselves reverting back to their old ways eventually, because they’re doing it for reasons other than what they want for themselves. That’s how I feel on the matter 🙂

  81.  #81Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    76 Elsie – this is just my opinion, but it feels like that’s simply because your focus is shifting to him too much. Again, CD, go out, meet men, get more in the funnel, focus on yourself. Then you’ll be surprised and delighted to hear from him because your life is so full of great things, you’re not spending time wondering what he’s thinking.

  82.  #82Vi on July 22, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    I feel squeezed in the left side of my chest when I think of having my needs met.. Hiding behind fights and convincing feels so much more easier… Feeling like a victim and resentment feel so much easier… than guilt. I love me, I love my guilt

  83.  #83Vi on July 22, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Guilt feels like softness and my tummy relaxed

  84.  #84Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    @Zia – I agree. However, I think I sort of do a “fake it until you make it” kind of thing. 🙂

    Last week, he texted me during the weekend for a bit, and then I didnt hear from him until Wednesday. But the point is that I didnt really worry about it at all.

    I feel more attached because of what happened last weekend. But you are 100% right.

    So because I feel this way, I’m going to fake it until I make it- meaning I am going to act like the girl I really really want to be.

    Just like how I got off of because thats the girl I want to be. 🙂

  85.  #85Tereana on July 22, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Ugh. I just had a difficult night with my family. But “difficult” in a different way than I’m used to. It feels cathartic and healing in a way. Like I’m getting closer to them, not further apart. Though for a minute there, I wanted to be very far away. But I stayed with myself. And I’m still here.

    And I’m so happy there’s a new thread! Already, I’ve gotten several “nuggets” from this one…

    The 8 weeks. Wow! That’s like 2 whole months!! But I think she’s right. And that gives me a lot of peace of mind. That, combined with the idea that “not calling” raises your ‘desirability’ factor for a man…well, I might just hold off on contacting the CCB for a little bit longer. ; ) I can always apply the ‘CTFD’ method…(from last thread)

    And the idea that your man could wake up, feeling like he’s won the lottery. Yeah, that’s the best. I’m going to take that one home : ) because I AM the lottery! I am the JACKPOT! If a man has “won” me, he couldn’t get any luckier!! 🙂


  86.  #86Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    And if I am “laser focused” yet I’m using it to heal all my “stuff,” how do I know that’s bad? At least then I’m going to be authentically laser focused. I’m gonna own it. There are different ways to get ourselves healed and whole, and sometimes different phases of our healing call for different ways of being.

    When I kept looking for “Mr. Right” in the next guy and the next guy and the next guy, I was healing a lot of stuff and yet I was also avoiding a lot of stuff … so later something else was needed.

  87.  #87Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Yes Zia, that resonates with me. It’s about finding an authentic way of being that feels honest and is sustainable and also gets us what we want.

  88.  #88Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Ok – Why do I feel like him being on invalidates our whole weekend? Thats weird right?

    I think its because I wanted him to feel like it was SO magical and special – as magical and special as he made it seem to me that night and all weekend long with his texts – that he wouldnt go on

    Huh. I wonder what to do with these feelings.

  89.  #89Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Elsie – it’s control again. You want him to feel a certain way… you don’t know why he was on there, and you don’t know if he felt that way.. maybe he did. But he’s a man, men a different. He’s not you 🙂

    Go back to holding your hand into a fist, then opening it up and letting go. It’s all about the need to control x

  90.  #90Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    @Zia – AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    WHAT!!! OMG !!!!!

    Thank you OMG – that is so perfect and so right. I totally feel that need to control the situaion.

    And I LOVED it when I didnt control and he texted me. And he asked me out – and he wanted to pick me up – and he opened my doors, and pulled out my chairs, etc etc etc…..

    I love it when I dont control.


    I wish you were here I would give you a beer. 🙂

  91.  #91Zia on July 22, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    Elsie – I would love to have a beer with you!! During my own journey, I realised there were so many ways I was trying to show control, but all in my own head! It was wishing he’d do this, or wondering why he didn’t do that.. it all got very tiring. So I do understand what you’re going through. It’s also why taking the focus off him works so well, because you’re so busy doing things you love that you forget about all that. Hope you sleep well tonight 🙂

  92.  #92Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    @Zia – I will totally sleep well.

    I guess I just wanted him to think that what we had over the weekend was so magical and special and our connection was so great and our chemistry was so awesome that he would not go on anymore.

    Maybe he still does. I dont know.

    Time will tell right? 🙂

  93.  #93BeLoved on July 22, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    T was off at an event for the week and called me as soon as he got in, he couldn’t wait to talk to me.
    Which felt good and sweet, and he was more exuberant in expressing his affection than usual 🙂
    We talked about his new romantic interest, he was so sweet, talking about how he wanted to be gentle with my heart, and wanted me to know that our connection will never go away and anyone who comes into his life will need to know how special I am to him.
    I felt clear and open, hearing him talk about her.
    He’s totally living the dream…

    I talked to him about how it was clear to me that we really do want different things, romantically. His new interest is all about leaving things open and being flowy about time, she’s driving an hour to meet him and spend time with him, he isn’t lifting a finger.
    I like plans in advance, and consistency about time, it feels better for me, and driving long distances to meet a man I just met and not having clear agreements about sex and all that…just not working for me. I’m happy for him (Mostly, only a little twinge).
    We laughed about how much more relaxed we feel now that we dropped trying to convince each other we were going to be the person with the relationship the other wanted.
    It felt …calm.

    He also said that he believes C is possibly afraid I might have been preparing to accuse him of sexual harassment when I asked him to stop using a particular word.

    I believe that’s possible, and yet, if he that were true, I don’t think he would have put himself alone in a room with me.

    I keep repeating…I care, and I let it go. I care about this, and I set it free. I care, I really really care, and I let it go. It’s ok It’s ok It’s ok It’s gonna be ok.

    I don’t know what else to do. It doesn’t feel right to approach him or D, I don’t know why. I kind of feel like I don’t have a right or something, maybe I won’t like what I will hear, or …I don’t know, I just hate to bring this stuff up at work and I don’t talk to them outside of work.
    I would LOVE some advice on this.

    I feel like a huge part of the drama is the guilt and judgment I feel for feeling so attracted to C.

    Again…idk so I’m just going to throw my hands up for the night, give it to the powers that be, and get my mind clear before I sleep tonight.

  94.  #94Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    @Zia – isnt this always the way? I just let go – opened myhands and blew…..

    And guess who just texted me. LOL.

    I’m in bed for the night so I’ll text him tomorrow. I’m too tired to start a conversation now. 🙂

    Thanks for all the help Zia – not sure where you live, but I would totally buy you a beer for your help tonight! 🙂

  95.  #95miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Good evening ladies. I realize and I just felt that if I could give of myself enough it would make up for all the the other things I lack to carry my weight in a relationship. I am not talking but nearly touching on the fact of past disappointments and injustices in my life have made me withdrawn and unsure about how I am to be happy and feel I have something worthy to offer. So the thing that I focus on is my heart. I know what love is and I am good at being devoted. I may not be able to process if it is ultimately being reciprocated properly at times. The rest I feel I will just pay attention and cross that bridge when it comes.

    I have plans for a future but at present I am in a civil matter over an estate that is being settled so for the past few months I have been taking time to simply be… What I am experiencing is the desire to be more productive now. Because I know that when I have a anterior focus..”I.e” work ,, then I have an avenue to focus on something that is rewarding mentally… That is good for me. But I feel like I want to be that way for my my angelface to. So they will feel like I am productive. I am not a lazy individual by nature but I have let myself sit and wait for things to get settled for me financially and I know if I have that outlet it will make a difference. And I want to feel like I’m something they can be proud of, not just because I want it but just as much because I feel they need to feel that for me too. just feel like I would really like to have a smile kiss and a long hug. Mmm that would be so nice. I also have an appointment Thursday to check on some long awaited finalization to a very important matter for me so I feel excited about that…
    You all are awesome<3

  96.  #96Zia on July 22, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    Elsie – YAY! I’m in Australia… if I’m ever in your area of the world I’ll look you up 😉

  97.  #97Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    @Zia – Hey!!!! I have tons of Aussie and Kiwi friends!

    Have you ever been to London? I’ve been to the Church there. If you have ever been to London you KNOW what I’m talking about. (How cool am I now?) LOL!!!!

  98.  #98miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    I am really excited that I can still love so much a person and know that not only do I do the things I am being to do, I do for me but also for us.. Yes that feels freaking awesome.. I deserve a cigarettes :-D:-D

  99.  #99Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Relationship is over!

    I’m ok! I’m glad it’s over… I feel relieved…

    He realized that when he took the test that he is avoiding the relationship and has been resisting spending more time with me and spending the night with me… and he says he knows I deserve better… and more than what he wants to give me…

    I’m sad, but I’m feeling relieved… and I know my friends will too, b/c they knew I needed to let him go…

    I think I knew that today too when I read the part in the book where it says that I need to hang on to my story about men not being emotionally available that is why I attract it to me…

    I told him I love him no matter what… and that I felt loved more by him than any man…

    So, I’m back online again tomorrow! Going to get myself back out there… whether or not I want to or not…

    love to you all!

  100.  #100seahorse on July 22, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    I had a memory. I had been married for about 10 years and bought a book. It was ‘The idiot’s Guide to Verbal Self-Defense’………………….. I got it because I couldn’t come up with anything to say when my ex said such yucky things to me. I read a bit of it and then I really put my mind to coming up with witty one liners designed to cut. It took awhile…………. years really. In the end, I got better at it but never to the point it made any difference. I have been listening to my words and have been letting go more and more of that kind of conversation. It feels mean. It feels dark and I don’t want to do that anymore. I will speak from only my heart, which is the truth and very very freeing. I feel good with this. Thank you

  101.  #101Elsie on July 22, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    @Lisa – I’m so glad to hear you are doing well. This man did love you – he does love you. He gave you a gift just like GS gave me. He knows he cant be what you need – maybe ever – maybe just right now.

    I’m so glad that you are going to start fresh tomorrow!!!!! Yay!!!! go you.

    I’m sorry you went through this but I’m really proud of your journey and feel honored that you chose to share it. (hugs!)

  102.  #102Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Yay Lisa – this feels exciting 🙂

  103.  #103seahorse on July 22, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Oh Lisa!!! Good for you sweet siren! Lisa juice is the best! Happy CDing to you:)

  104.  #104Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    Thanks @Elsie I feel calm and empowered… and since he was breaking up with me…

    I told him also how I wasn’t a priority enough and that if I commit to a man I have requirements to be a priority…

    He doesn’t think he loves me, he says he cares about me… I think he loves me…

    but really I’m relieved b/c I just was settling and I knew that and actually posted it a few times… I was settling..

    I told him that a man I’m with has to have a natural desire to know me, know what my day was like, and have a natural interest in what I’m interested in… he never did! He forced himself to…

    I told my friend Doc a few months ago I had doubts… and my therapist has known I’ve had doubts for the entire time I was with him… I was ready to break up for a long while… b/c of his self absorption.

    and he said “Your a Secure and it makes sense you are looking for what your looking for and that you should have it”…

    I told him, I’m not looking to be friends… and I’m not… that would be too hard for me..

    Elsie I wish we were closer too! and I don’t drink wine ( I’m allergic) but I would love to sit and have a drink with you… chat… get a hug, right now I need one!

    I never felt good enough for him… and I tolerated it… he would say things to me about people with low income.. etc… I told him that tonight…that I never felt I was in the right social class for him… and I noticed he never said anything about it…

    I’m done! I think I’ve been done and was trying to work it out and I thought if I used the tools it would.. but he just isn’t the right one for me… and I’m so open and ready for the right one! Dear God! I’m so ready!!!! I’ve worked on myself for so long to be ready for the right one!

    Bring him on!

    Love to you Elsie! <3

  105.  #105Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Lisa, what a relief – yay! 🙂

  106.  #106Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    “M” and GS and “Felt Unsafe” Guy have all been let go … lol … who’s next? I’m just teasing, it feels like a huge relief to see all these guys go …

  107.  #107Lisa on July 22, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    @Erika it is a relief but also sucks! I’m just not sure I’m wanting to date 54 men again!

    UGG… the expense the time.. etc…

    but if you want it you have to go through what it takes to get it…


  108.  #108miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Well I called today twice and text them also, but I never heard anything back. I, so I decided to go see them tomorrow because I just don’t understand his words to me sometimes. And he knows we need communication and so if I have to be the masculine one I’m going to go claim them

  109.  #109Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    well … we’ll see. I didn’t date in law school at least not the first two years. I went straight into relationship with my ex. I’m asking God and the angels to help me skip dating again lol 🙂

  110.  #110Erika Awakening on July 22, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Mejor sola que mal acompañada

  111.  #111Zia on July 22, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Elsie – yes I’ve been to london… and I have family who live in Kent. Have been wanting to do a round the world trip sometime in the next couple of years… visit them and then head over to Canada to visit some other friends there 🙂

  112.  #112miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Seahorse are u having an issue?

  113.  #113Zia on July 22, 2013 at 8:50 pm

    Lisa – lots of love to you!

  114.  #114miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Lisa maybe you should talk to this man and tell him these things , I mean maybe he is reaching out bout understand some of these rules here because it’s new. Or maybe he tried to call or maybe he will call right now.

  115.  #115miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Lisa maybe you should talk to this man and tell him these things , I mean maybe he is reaching out bout understand some of these rules here because it’s new. Or maybe he tried to call or maybe he will call right now.

  116.  #116prplpsn28 on July 22, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Subscribing to new thread. Had a very busy, and good, wknd with H. Haven’t been able to keep up with the blog. Need to catch up.

  117.  #117miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    I do love you more than I cam express, I wanted to come over but didn’t know if you want me to because u didn’t answer, I didn’t understand how to read things correctly. I will come with hugs now. What can I do. I feel so willing wanting your love to give you mine. Why is it so hard to just answer a phone or tell me in plain English. I said this to them

  118.  #118Indigo on July 22, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    April Rose 24,

    I have taken to getting my feelings from the day out when I am driving home from work in my car. It’s about a 40 minute drive and I’m alone in the car so no one to censor myself to, no reason to hold back. I’m not sure if it’s the traffic that triggers it, but I find myself crying, shouting, saying things, making noises and gestures that I never normally would, just to get my feelings and frustrations out. It feels awesome in a way…

    I shudder to think if some of the other drivers were to look over for too long, but I really don’t care 🙂

  119.  #119Indigo on July 22, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Elsie 48

    I posted my thoughts on texting first on the previous thread, near the bottom, if you are interested.

    I think it can work fine and won’t alter his feelings for you in any way, in fact it might serve to bring you a little closer together, as long as you are sensitive to the energy dynamic, and are doing it from a pure place.

    When I text first, I keep it really simple and don’t usually ask questions, so something like “I hope you are having a great day and are feeling better!”

    In my experience, guys love this. It makes them feel thought about and cared for, but there’s no pressure in it at all.

  120.  #120miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    I’m coming to see you tomorrow… I don’t mind this but right now it is better to be able to talk without anything to confuse me. Goodnight! <3

  121.  #121miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    I’m coming to see you tomorrow… I don’t mind this but right now it is better to be able to talk without anything to confuse me. . Goodnight! <3 I love you

  122.  #122miranda faith on July 22, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    Thank u indigo . I sent a couple post here but they haven’t posted yet it seems. I can’t text tonight o have no phone. Only email and he didn’t tell me that and his Facebook is closed. Tell her I love her he said

  123.  #123Zia on July 22, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    trigger! trigger! trigger! blam blam blam! sinking into these feelings and letting them go. over and over. thank you houseEx for being a lesson.

  124.  #124Veronica on July 22, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    From the previous thread:
    April Rose – 1549 – Hello, what a sweet message : )

  125.  #125Wildgeranium on July 22, 2013 at 11:39 pm


    Melanie- this dynamic feels familiar to me. I think my push pull, coupled with CW having an enormous amount of stress on his plate, plus the distance and all the driving back and forth, has made him more avoidant than he would normally be. Plus, I’m withholding, which is not helping.


    ((((((Lisa))))))) sad to read this, but your words sound strong. That feels good to read. <3

  126.  #126Wildgeranium on July 22, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    Keep forgetting to subscribe

  127.  #127Zia on July 22, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    I feel resentful, because I interpret his actions as a means to control and manipulate. What if I let that interpretation go? I don’t know what his intentions are. Focus on me. How I feel. It’s all about ME and not him. Huh. How bout that. I feel it letting go, letting go……

  128.  #128Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 12:43 am

    It’s 3am I felt good and calm and thought I was going to sleep… but the replay of the convo kept going… past the deep sleepy feelings and now to sleepliness…

    I feel anger now at him… like the time Mercedes threw something at him… I feel like smashing something… HOW dare him treat me like a second class person …. how dare I allow someone to treat me this way.. and i’m F;;;,king mad that he cancelled this trip with E my child and she is going to be upset and hurt.. she really liked “M” and always told me Mommy he is your miracle… you two were meant to be together… just out of the blue she would say that…

    I have to say though in all honesty.. I was so tired of crying over this relationship and the lost time with her and me and my garden and workouts….. all b/c of mind stuff trying to figure him out… and having to post so much.. not that I don’t love you guys… just that… I have a very busy life…

    I never felt he was telling me the truth about some things.. that didn’t feel good… the fact that he told me all kinds of things in the beginning and then come to find out they weren’t true… he was just so taken with me, that he had to win me… and from now on I’ll know that when a man has nothing else to talk about except how he won the lottery when he won you, then that is a HUGE sign that it’s all about my looks…and my body…. he kept on and on about my body… and being impressed with this and that none of which had anything to do with who I am….

    I listened to others when I should have listened to myself… I think women are too tolerant of men and I’m sorry but If I have to adapt myself that much to a man , then changing who I am , I don’t want it… sorry… if that is against the tools…

    I mean I could adapt to his need to have guns around for safety ( if he kept them in a safe when E wasn’t around) and I could adapt to his need to have complete darkness when sleeping and having to have dark curtains up.. and sleep with ear plugs…

    but he said he was into hiking, biking and other outdoor stuff and he lied… he isn’t anymore… he likes to stay inside all the time.. and that wouldn’t have worked for me… I know I’ve been there a thousand times with boyfriends…..

    it wouldn’t work for me to have a man that couldn’t accept that women sometimes have gas and sometimes have bugers in their nose.. we are all human come on! He didn’t like it if I had a little bit of mascara in the corner of my eyes… I let it go b/c I loved him and I chose love over his hangups about perfection…

    I let it go that he minimized my trauma in my life and made his sound so much more worse…and shut me up… and didn’t care how my day went or what I felt about thing… never asking me what I wanted..

    I can’t adapt to the point where i can’t be myself.. I love to banter and if my man doesn’t I’d have to stop being who I am …. “M” loved to banter… and that was good…

    he would create drama or arguments to create distance…this is why I said an avoidant wouldn’t work with an Secure… b/c anyone would get tired of someone creating drama and agruments for the sake of distancing…

    He knew I was a secure, he said that tonight, so apparently, he took the test for me also…

    I knew today when reading the book, and i read why anxious attract avoidants b/c it keeps their story in tact about men… I knew in that second that is what I needed to learn from “M”… and that it might very well be time to move on…

    I hear myself in bed tonight ( or this morning its 3a) saying HOW dare he think that what little he was giving me is enough…

    This is why I have a desire to run when things get dysfunctional… this very reason.. b/c I know it’s not healthy… not b/c I’m running from fear of triggers… b/c I cant’ deal with all this dysfunction…

    He is stuck in the past… and doesn’t realize now … what he had with me… he is still projecting it onto me…

    I love him but I’m an outdoors person who loves nature… he likes to stay inside all the time and I’d be like the people in the book always having to do things by myself in an effort to keep the relationship going… and that doesn’t feel good to me.. I’ve been though that with all my past partners..

    He had a high level of secrecy… and he feared women would take advantage of him and financially too… so he wouldn’t and didn’t give freely… he wanted something in return all the time… that didn’t feel good to me…

    I think looking back he is the one that is needy.. he needed me to tell him to go meditate, he needed me to feel sorry for him and what he went through, he needed me to bend backwards to make sure HE was comfortable…. so @FW was right he wanted a mommy.. THANK GOD I’m not it…

    and yet I’m still angry…not sure why… I think maybe b/c I stayed too long, I put up with way too much… and I didn’t listen to myself and I hurt my child in the process…

    I’m fuming mad about him doing that to my child…

    Not to trigger but he needed routine way, way too much! and since I attract AS men… lots of them b/c my Dad is AS… I wondered about that… and his lack of experience with relationships and women… so all in all, it’s a good thing… I just need to sleep and let the anger and hurt go… and get on with my life… have fun! enjoy the rest of my 50th year!

    and I hope God sends me a man that isn’t frustrated b/c I have Celiac… and I don’t drink or do Drugs…

    sorry for the long rant…. just need to get it out…and hopefully sleep!

    love to all

  129.  #129Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 3:09 am

    Elsie 59

    I agree with Zia. The key with circular dating is that you must continue dating other men, the entire crux of it is not to focus on one man and what he is or isn’t doing. Trust me, if he is on match and it were me, I would be right along there with him on match chatting to other guys. I would so barely even THINK about a guy who is still active on his online dating profile. Date him, let him give to you, enjoy his texts, but from where I’m standing I would not be emotionally involved to the point that his being active on match would hurt me.

    The irony is, when you adopt this attitude, they suddenly seem to want you all to themselves. They suddenly get to commitment so much faster. This has happened several times with me.

  130.  #130Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 3:13 am

    Erika 74

    “I just don’t like applying these concepts. It feels exhausting. If my intuition says to call, and I don’t, it’s kinda like if I want to eat a piece of chocolate, and I don’t … all it does is increase the craving …”

    I very much agree. And also, I don’t believe in force. I prefer the healthiness of energy flowing back and forth.

  131.  #131Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 3:20 am

    Yet another potential for a fight with D that got beautifully resolved.

    I feel so lovely? in awe? of this.

    I felt terrible yesterday, standing up to my boss took it out of me. D messaged me early in the morning that he was very unwell and was in bed, and was going to try and get some sleep. The fever he said he thought he might have was very worrying to me, as I’ve had it before. And I couldn’t get through to him the rest of the day. At first, I felt hurt and a bit annoyed at being shut out, and then that turned to concern and finally worry.

    All day passed and I hadn’t heard a word about how he was. By 11 pm when I finally attempted to drift off into a fitful sleep, I had convinced myself that he must be lying in hospital without any access to his phone.

    Sigh. I know how it sounds, but it truly felt awful from my end 🙁 Anyway, he sent me an e-mail around midnight to say he had just been sleeping, like he said he would.

    This morning, he said to me, what on earth were all those e-mails and texts about? I apologized unreservedly and said I was just concerned. The whole thing blew over, and after having his say, he was ok with me. Sigh 🙂

  132.  #132Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 3:31 am

    Elsie 89,

    Men are not women.

    Please don’t make the mistake I’ve made SO many times of trying to make his thoughts fit into mine, as in, if I think that, he must think it too! If I can dream it up, it must be the thought foremost in his mind!

    God I’ve been there so many times. Finally I let go of wondering what they’re thinking altogether, and take what they say at face value. It feels great, I promise 🙂


  133.  #133ruth on July 23, 2013 at 3:38 am


    Lisa, I feel so relieved reading that your struggles are over with M

    Really relieved

    it seemed like far too much hard work for a great lady who has so much to give and deserves only the best

    Thank you also Ladies for the discussions on leaning back on the last thread

    It clarified a lot

  134.  #134Linda on July 23, 2013 at 4:04 am

    Hugs to you Lisa… I dont know about avoidants and secures and the such but as I have read your posts (especially your last one)…. that ther were lots of things that were “off” with you and him. I wish you a flowing…consistent… happy… emotionally healthy relationship. Not settling for this one is making room for just that!

  135.  #135Heart on July 23, 2013 at 4:21 am

    Indigo….i love the way you see things…you should be a coach!

  136.  #136Heart on July 23, 2013 at 4:32 am

    Lisa – please throw that attached book away. It sounds stupid. I took the quiz and my attachment style changes depending on what partner/date I’m thinking about. These things are just Theory. What the writers call “Avoidant”…John Ray calls being from Mars.

    Also I’m finding it hard to understand what was wrong with this man? He saw you 4 times a week and was taking you on a trip….and you seemed attracted and into him?
    Bad Advice and clingy obsessiveness as ruined yet another relationship on this blog.
    It hurts reading these stories…

  137.  #137ruth on July 23, 2013 at 4:53 am

    Ive just read back a bit more

    wow, you put up with a lot there!

    I hope you can move on quickly and cherish your inner child and then a good nature loving tolerant , supportive man who has his own stuff together can come into your life
    No drink, no drugs sounds a great way to be, though i dont envy you the coeliac

    Hope you are soundly asleep xx

  138.  #138Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 5:18 am


    I want to throw the damn book away!!!

    I was just explaining how excited I was about it.. and he took and ran with it… as a reason to break up… that’s ok… he obviously was considering it anyways the whole week he was gone and the book was making it easier for him…

    He said he was resisting for along while in the relationship… that’s true… and that I deserve someone that can give me more than that.. that’s true!

    but yeah the other things were hard with the guns everywhere, being afraid of thieves in his home all the time… have to have a strict routine, blaming me for his decisions ( ie staying up at my house late) not liking to do anything outdoors.. not being interested in me and my interests… and always having to have things his way…

    Celiac is fine… I don’t mind it at ALL I love that I eat very healthy… but I guess to some men that food is more important than a relationship!

    So book aside… there were other issues…

    Yes, he saw me 4 times a week… ??

    What was wrong with this man — you mean to me? I was into him… yes, and he said he wasn’t that into me… ??

    He said he was too wounded from his last relationship and he can’t get over losing the relationship he had with her daughter that he considered himself to be her dad…

    Where was the clingy obsessiveness? from me? Please tell me what you see?


  139.  #139Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 5:19 am

    Thanks Ruth! <3

    I tend to do that in relationships put up with too much! I've been told that I'm too patient and too tolerant…

  140.  #140ruth on July 23, 2013 at 5:27 am

    and not being able to pass gas

    deal breaker for me

    Seriously, that sounds like you had to compromise SO much of yourself

  141.  #141Heart on July 23, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Lisa – I checked the last thread and he seemed pretty into you…he looked into ur eyes for 5 mins…remember. You sounded kinda happy…strange how quickly your emotions changed. He just came back from visiting his Dad-who-has-cancer….was it really, really the time to start up on Attached? Seriously I just wanna find this guy and give him a big hug.
    I would encourage you for your own good to look at the ways maybe you were intolerant and impatient…

  142.  #142Zia on July 23, 2013 at 5:42 am

    Heart: I do find it a little frustrating when people read those sorts of things and pigeon hole themselves into a category and that’s that. What pleased me about the book is that where I started off as SUPER anxious (years ago) I now recognize that I’m becoming more and more secure thanks to all the inner work I’m doing.

    But it is not this blog’s fault that people on here make the decisions they do. Its on each and every individual. I read the exact same things on here that everyone else does and then I go about my day and make decisions based on many different factors.

  143.  #143Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 5:51 am

    @ Heart I will look into this yes!

    this has been going on for months… not just now after his visit… and yes, I regret that I didn’t mention it to him about having the emotional impact of his dad on him… but really he has a degree in psy… he knows himself enough to know that for 4mos of the 6mos he didn’t want to spend the night with me… and as @Wildgeranium said that is a deal breaker for her and for me too… if after 4mos you don’t want to spend the night with someone…. I need to move on…

    he did look into my eyes for 5mins.. yes and last night when I couldn’t sleep, I recalled the feeling that he wasn’t that into me and I was just smiling and wishing he was… and to be honest… when it was happening.. ( looking into my eyes) I wasn’t feeling it either… I just pretended for it to… I knew something had changed between us…

    The eye contact wasn’t the way It had been in the past…

    I certainly can look at how i was not patient, but to be honest, I was overly patient with him in a lot of ways… he was very impatient with me… scolding me and getting really hot with me sometimes for not answering him… he didn’t allow me to have any wiggle room and when I apologized for something he would just keep using it against me… like hitting me over the head with it…

    it was a very double standard kind of relationship… and yes, he was into me… but the pretty, and good body part of me.. not the real me!

    I LOVE him and I told him that… but, love isn’t enough like Dominique said.. and I’ve always said… there has to be more glue than that… and we didn’t have common interests … he stays home most all the time, he hates exercise, and has to have routine… I’m an outgoing, fun, adventurous person that love exercise…

    Like Rori says… he just there for me to get the lessons I needed …. and he clearly has healing to do….


  144.  #144Heart on July 23, 2013 at 5:54 am

    Lisa – Coming on the blog and constantly asking for input and advice IS obsessive. I’m curious to know what Rori has to say about this sort of behavor from her followers. It seems to go Entirely against her whole concept of taking your focus off a man. How can you take your focus off a man when blogging about him every hour and taking bad advice.

    Taking about Attached the book to your Man is just plain Weird. I haven’t read the book but I’ve the reviews and these So-called Avoidant types get a beating. Sounds kind of Mean and Clingy to bring it up….it’s like right off the bat you want to Talk about the relationship/talk about what he’s doing wrong.

    New Tool: Pretend Your The Bad One (while loving yourself)
    see where it takes you …

  145.  #145Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 5:57 am

    @ Zia

    I agree! I think people can read a book and put too much into it….

    I started to do that, and then caught myself, it’s just one person’s view..

    and yes, I’m finding it helpful b/c I too realized how I’m secure now and was a very anxious person years ago and how far I’ve come…

    on a side note:
    I certainly wasn’t perfect in the relationship, but I was putting up with far too much! Even aside from his father having cancer.. he was a very controlling man…and that bothered me a lot! I was always on the verge of breaking up b/c of it… I didn’t want to get into another relationship with a controlling man…my therapist told me “why haven’t you broken up”.

  146.  #146Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:00 am

    Lisa – I’ve been following your story and I do feel glad that it’s ended. Maybe it was a purposeful relationship and that purpose has been served and it’s now complete 🙂

    Heart – the point of this blog is to allow us to get our feelings OUT. Even Rori admits it’s not for advice giving. The way I see it, is to get the feelings and confusion out here, so that hopefully we can go back to our men a from a more secure place. It’s all a journey. Everyone here is learning and no one is wrong with what they do or how they feel. Not me, not you.

  147.  #147Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:03 am

    Heart: And how Lisa feels is not wrong, and so there’s no need to challenge it. Question it so you can make sense of it yourself sure but not challenge it and demand explanations or reasons?

  148.  #148Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 6:03 am

    @ Heart

    Ok point taken… no I don’t think I’m going to be the bad one… sorry that isn’t going to help… and I think I’ve thought that most of my life and worked hard to over come it… I really don’t need that anymore…

    and I can certainly stop posting… no problem… if Rori or you thinks it’s too much…

    I would have to say, that, i’m not the only one that posts often, and I also would say I haven’t always.. I was processing stuff… but ok!

    I think my heart is hurting and I don’t want to have more…. like this…

    by the way he ask me about the book, I didn’t bring it up… and when I did, it wasn’t about US.. it was about the jest of the book… and he ask me about us… I didn’t initiate it…


  149.  #149Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:04 am

    I feel quite defensive of Lisa at the moment! Sending lots of love to you Lisa xo

  150.  #150Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 6:05 am

    How do I get off the feed so I can not get the posts…. ??? Can someone get me off please?

  151.  #151ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:06 am

    Thats a very helpful way to look at it Zia

    A purposeful relationship


    I like that very much

  152.  #152Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 6:06 am

    Thanks Zia…

    I’m feeling shaky right now…

    but I do need to get off the feed b/c I have a broken heart now…and I need to love on it…

    much love Zia


  153.  #153Heart on July 23, 2013 at 6:09 am

    Zia – I’m not demanding explanations or reasons. At what point did I say Lisa was wrong to feel the way she feels?
    I would encourage you to look at the ways You are making Me wrong…and essentially asking me to explain myself. Don’y you find that funny. #mirrors.

  154.  #154ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:09 am

    Lisa, I am unsubscribed but I cant recall how i did it, sorry


  155.  #155ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:13 am

    and lisa, if it helps you to vent dont stop posting

  156.  #156Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:16 am

    Heart I feel resonant with what you are saying to Lisa about the relationship.

  157.  #157Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:16 am

    Heart: 141 had a pretty strong judgemental vibe about it. But that’s just my perspective.
    Ruth: Not sure if it was this post or the previous one, but I listened to a great call by a woman who said essentially there are three types of relationships: lifelong, life giving, and purposeful. With the last one, once the purpose has been served, the relationship ends (lesson learned). I really love this concept as it’s helped me feel a little stronger about my relationships that HAVE ended.

  158.  #158Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:17 am

    Lisa look at the bottom to see if the Notify me of followup comments via email is checked. If it is, uncheck it.

  159.  #159Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:18 am

    So does saying that talking to her man about the book is “weird”. So does saying its mean and clingy.

  160.  #160Heart on July 23, 2013 at 6:19 am

    Lisa – I’m sorry. That comment about the posting was merely a reflection on the blog itself. I didn’t write it to mean that you shouldn’t post…I learn a lot from you and the people that post …I wrote it because you asked me to explaim. Truthfully, I feel freaked out and a little grossed out ny your upsetness….it seems so childish to interpret and overact to what I wrote in that way….If you were really as secure as you claim you would be agreeing with me instead of sulking and making threats.

    If you want to keep demonizing the men in your life and play victim go ahead…Since my comments have upset everyone ad some kinda crazed drama is starting to unfold, I’ll consider retreating for the night.

  161.  #161ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:19 am

    Zia, it is a great way to look at past stuff, in my view
    Stops you beating yoursdelf up and stops you thinking you have wasted so much tiem on the “wrong” relationship

  162.  #162Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:20 am

    Ruth – it was Lisa Nichols on the Attract Soulmate summit

  163.  #163Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:20 am

    “It seems so childish to interpret and overact…. if you were really as secure as you claim you would….” <– judgement.

  164.  #164ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:21 am

    Thank you Zia and FW

  165.  #165Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:22 am

    It feels good to pick up on these things and recognize that they’re things that I used to say in relationships when I was attacking a man for hurting me.

    I had such a breakthrough when I realised I was doing this yet again with my ex… he was saying what he was saying and I was interpreting it my way through my filters and getting angry about it. When I stopped and thought about my feelings and where they led to I realised that it was simply from my interpretation of what he said. When I removed it, the anger was gone and I was able to let it go. That recognition felt so liberating.

  166.  #166Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:23 am

    162 Thank you FW!!

  167.  #167ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:24 am

    Arielle is on Modern Siren, isnt she

  168.  #168Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:29 am

    Lisa – the way I see it you need a “new normal”. Where energy goes energy flows. It seems the book was unconsciously used to look for the flaws rather than focussing on the good things he does. It seems this last episode is a bit of a “self-fulfilling prophecy”. The book convinced you that he is avoidant, you believed it and now you are right.

    The one thing I can tell you is that this is not over. I have learned that it has been proven that the parts of our brain that lights up when we are in love remains lit up long after a break up. From what you have written here, if this man is angry now, when he moves through his anger he is likely to contact you again.

  169.  #169Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:32 am

    Zia/Heart/Lisa – if we use every relationship interaction as a learning moment where our intention is one of curiosity and learning about the other human being many of our interactions would be so different.

  170.  #170Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:34 am

    Funny enough, I read the book and the way I took it is that these styles are developed based on our childhood socialization. I also understood that these styles can change. Especially as secures or any other style learn to respond to the needs of their partner.

  171.  #171Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Erika I read these words and thought of you:-


    Many of us grew up believing that achieving success requires relentless hard work, grim determination and intense ambition.

    As a result, we’ve struggled for years and even reached some of our goals but often ended up feeling exhausted, our lives out of balance.

    The spiritual truth is, there’s an enlightened approach to success. A route that’s not rife with chaos and disorder.

    When you discover this spiritual laws of success, you’ll realize such desperate striving isn’t necessary or even desirable.

    The 10 spiritual laws are powerful principles you can use to fulfil your deepest desires with effortless joy.

    Expect Abundance,
    Aiden Powers”

    They remind me of the grace and ease that Lisa Nichols spoke about.

  172.  #172Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:41 am

    Bob Grant

    “After years of practice, I found the secrets to getting a man to open up even when he doesn’t want to. They worked back then and they still work today. One key factor is being able to make adjustments in your interaction style.

    Each of us has a certain style of relating. Some styles are more outgoing while others are more naturally reserved. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply just ways of relating. Your ability to adjust your style of relating to the specific people with whom you are speaking determines your success rate in getting them to open up. This is especially true for getting a man to feel close to you. For example, if I’m talking with someone shy, I need to be careful not to overwhelm him or her. On the other hand, people who are more outgoing will want me to engage them more as we speak.

    When you monitor a man’s style and attempt to follow his lead, he will naturally relax around you. This is a change that you can make that will cause a man to feel as though you understand him. When a man feels you understand him, this becomes a major emotional trigger which makes him want to spend more time with you.

    Many women have told me this, “But that’s not who I am. I want to be myself. Why should I pretend to be something I’m not? That sounds like I playing games.” While there is some truth in what they’re saying, the point they are missing is as follows.

    If you want to be able to disarm a man and increase the likelihood that he’ll bond with you emotionally, then you have to make him feel safe. I don’t know if that’s fair, I just know it works. If you’re interested in fair, then you’re right. Just be yourself. Don’t adjust and wait for him to adjust to you – and wait….and wait.”

  173.  #173BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Linguistics; verbal self-defense; English Verbal Attack Patterns

    VAPs aren’t just hostile utterances, smart cracks, insults, et cetera. They’re very specific, rigorously defined, productive patterns — “templates” into which American English speakers drop items from an infinite set of possibilities. All examples of VAPs are hostile utterances, but only a small number of hostile utterances are examples of VAPs.

    One basic VAP:
    “If you REALLY [X], YOU would/wouldn’t [Y]!”

    “If you REALLY loved me, YOU wouldn’t waste MONEY the way you do!”
    [Or — a variation, as mentioned — “If you really LOVED me, YOU wouldn’t waste MONEY the way you do!”]

    The bait in this example is “You waste money.” The sheltered attack is “You don’t really love me.” [That is, “if you really loved me” presupposes “you don’t really love me.”]

  174.  #174BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 6:44 am

    “All English VAPs have two parts — at least one insult sheltered in a presupposition, and at least one open insult that constitutes the bait.

    (Sometimes the two parts are clearly separated as in the example, but not always.) In all English VAPs, hostility is signalled by extra emphasis on words and parts of words. For all English VAPs, the speaker isn’t interested in the utterance that would be the typical response, but is trying to start a fight.”

  175.  #175ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:45 am

    I apply this kind of thinking to interactions with patients

    if you dont communicate with them in their preferred style you end up being a whole lot less effective


    Applied to relationships


  176.  #176ruth on July 23, 2013 at 6:51 am

    I am feeling extremely resistant to that concept in relationship-hm, I wonder why

  177.  #177Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:53 am

    Wow. Beloved. It is very innocuous. No wonder Rori talks about choose your words. Susie & Otto Collins – magic relationship words. Other coaches – set your intentions.

    With these we change choose to change our patterns of communication.

    We can also choose to think it is game playing.

  178.  #178Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Ruth the one thing that jumped to mind when I read it was *RESPECT*. I don’t know why, maybe because it was because in the past I just only cared about getting out what I wanted to say. I didn’t care how it affected the other person. Now that I am respecting myself more and removing myself from some interactions I feel showing respect in whatever way I can is so crucial for me.

  179.  #179Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:01 am

    Also for me it is practically impossible for me to respect someone who I don’t respected by.

  180.  #180BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 7:04 am

    Oh my.
    I feel so much better now that I have less bs tolerance.
    I never ever ever thought I’d agree with Dr. Phil on anything…but I stopped giving people the benefit of the doubt and it is working for me.
    I feel more and more trust for my instincts.
    The less I BS myself, the less tolerance for BS I have in others, and I’m okay with that.
    I’m learning a lot about mindeffery here…
    don’t pi$$ on my leg and tell me it’s raining!

    The shop mgr just came in and tried to convince me that he had spoken with me about something last week (never happened) and some info I was missing and needed had actually been in the system the whole time (uh, no, here’s my documentation, printouts, dates, times..)
    Honest to goodness, I’m positive he JUST put the information in last night or this morning, and was trying to convince me it had been there the whole time.

    Not this chica, I’m on to this game!
    I’m not an easy target for the manipulators anymore.
    I feel so strong!

    OLD person texts at booty call hours asking to trade pics, then tries to convince me what he was really doing was trying to find a good time to call… “When is a good time to call?” is trying to find a good time to call.
    “Can I get more pics? Pics? More pics? When you gonna send me some pics?” is NOT trying to find a good time to call. I can tell the difference.
    Disengage, abort mission 🙂

    I feel better and better and better about not leaning forward with C. It’s helped me see other things so clearly. He and D have a guilty conscience about *something* and I feel content to let them simmer in their own feelings.

    I feel good good good this morning. And I haven’t even taken any Happy Camper pills 🙂
    I feel more and more sure of myself, more and more certain, more and more confident in my ability to be resilient and bounce back after feeling triggered.

    Surprisingly, the first few OLD responders were actually interesting and worth responding to, hooray!
    I’m feeling more and more clear.
    Yum yum yum yay yum!

  181.  #181Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 7:05 am


    It kind of feels like I’m being talked around…

    What is it you feel resonate with..? Can you address me directly?

    on a side note:

    I know Dominique has already said prior to that he has wounds to work on and did I want to wait…and then be a maybe..

    Here is the one knows but me and my family and friends around me the whole story. He is a good man.. but he also always was trying to control me.. and dominate me… even in bed…

    I could post all of my concerns.. but the bottom line is Elsie was right! He couldn’t even put his snack down to have a talk with me.. this isn’t me he is like this with everyone… he just doesn’t want to be inconvenienced. He has told me time and time again with friends and clients… “It’s going to be on my terms”. That is how he treated me…

    I deserve better! Like he said I deserve someone that really feels deeply for me… and wants to spend the night with me.. he is right!!!

    So, hindsight I should have left long time ago when I noticed the control issues…

    Sat night before he left when we had sex he put his hand around my throat… YEP! I said what are you doing… he took it off..

    later I ask what was that about, he said I just got carried away.. OK carried away by what.. being in control…

    You see you don’t know the whole story.. I think that judging me by what little I’ve said on the posts is unfair…

    I’ve spoken to the best of my knowledge with respect and love and positiveness…on this blog.

    I really love your blunt honesty, but I also don’t agree with it…and it feels unfair…

    I’m not the only one that posts often.


  182.  #182BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 7:10 am

    FW – 177 – “Beloved. It is very innocuous”
    Isn’t it though?!
    It’s one of the reasons we feel bamboozled without really knowing why.
    I love love studying language and patterns of language, I feel so fascinated by it.
    T used to call me out on this all of the time…and boy was I really good at mindeffing right back..”Oh, you just read that in some book and now you believe it and are making it mean something about me without giving me the benefit of the doubt.”
    I was totally attacking. I couldn’t STAND to be the abuser, I would feel so incensed if someone else took the victim position. That was MY position, how dare he!!

    It feels so good to be out of that mess.

  183.  #183BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Oh lord and it feels sooooo good to be able to laugh about it…
    now I’m crying…
    F*cking YES for me.
    🙂 🙂

  184.  #184BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 7:16 am

    It especially feels good to be able to laugh about it with T.
    We get some big fat belly laughs and guffaws at some of the crap we used to go at each other about and what we were believing at the time.
    I feel so open and expanded and so so so good right now,
    I feel so grateful
    Thank G0d, thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d that’s over keeps going through my mind and it feels soooo good to feel that right now.

  185.  #185Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 7:21 am


    I haven’t been a victim I’ve admitted when I was wrong and I said I would look at what you said… and if I didn’t, I had it typed and maybe it got erased…

    However, I can be a victim for a short time and then look at it and release it.. i don’t have to be strong all the time secure or not.. even secure people have down times…

    I do look at my part in all of this… constantly!

    and if you feel that I’m being petty, that is certainly your right to feel that way… I think when someone’s heart is hurting that sometimes they are less secure!!!! and feeling vulnerable.. and I wouldn’t say things like that to someone that is hurting…

    but that is me… and I’m not the only one that took your post that way.. it seemed harsh and
    and here is the thing….

    typed out communication is lacking body language which we all know body language is 85% of communication.. no one can be sure how or what someone’s tone or intent is by typing a message… so I think maybe your not considering that! when you say I took it the wrong way… that plus I was hurting….

    So, loving me and giving me a break! here… I can say that there was NO way I could know by what you typed that it meant it the way you intended to conveyed it…

    and OK so I’m the bad guy! that’s fine, I can hang with that.. I’m still glad it is over! I don’t want another controlling man in my life that doesn’t consider my feelings and has to dominate me….

    and I was there for him! big time! and I wasn’t perfect! SO what!.. if I have to mold myself into perfect to be with a man than I don’t want to be in a relationship… he made big mistakes too!

    I apologized for my share! nothing else I could have done… I learned what I needed to learn and now I’m moving on…

    I’m sorry that my emotional state came out in my post… and for my share in this…


  186.  #186Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 7:34 am

    @ Femininewoman

    You know i love your posts and clarity… I really do!

    thanks for directing that to me!

    and still as you see it I was looking for something to be wrong.. OMG I can find that… and what I can say is that it was already wrong! from the second month on… he was being avoidant then, I didn’t fulfill this was already there.. he told me last night… everything we’ve been struggling with for 4mos now is explained in this book…he was right!

    Pardon my spelling ….

    I know that it might appear that way,,, b/c I sugar coated some of what he did and I focused on the good more than maybe I should have…now that I’m looking at it… he loved me like Elsie said.. but he didn’t love me enough to not feel inconvenienced by things like spending the night with me.. he told me last night he has to force himself to spend the night with me…

    the man was controlling! big time! and for me that is a red flag! that in itself is a toxic thing for me… maybe someone else it might not be.. but the first time we had sex he tossed me around… trying to be in control!

    He stopped after that… but when he put his hand around my throat last week… I felt awful! He was trying to control me… and it was scary! He realized what he had done…

    he might come back.. I don’t’s my time to circle date and purge all of this good info I get feed back from and do the work on it… I’m obcessive.. and find it… I’m needy and find it and turn it around.. see behind the scenes of this blog… I do look at all this… I do! so when someone says I’m a victim… I don’t feel that is true for me… even my therapist tells me I’m not a victim personality… so that is projection from whomever is saying it…

    Much love!

  187.  #187Sophie on July 23, 2013 at 7:38 am

    Lisa – I feel ultimate respect that you have shared your process so vulnerably with us and that the more we all share the more we receive our own revelations – constant expansion and growth

    Also, what we see on the blog is the present time and so its not often until after that we are able to admit to ourselves and hence the blog things we have been squashing or avoiding or not choosing to give energy to

    I feel you have been brave and open and authentic and whether this relationship with him is done or not you are constantly growing and learning more about yourself and your place in relationships

    Love hard on yourself x you are great 🙂

  188.  #188Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:48 am

    Lisa this “I took the quiz and my attachment style changes depending on what partner/date I’m thinking about. These things are just Theory. What the writers call “Avoidant”…John Ray calls being from Mars.

    Also I’m finding it hard to understand what was wrong with this man? He saw you 4 times a week and was taking you on a trip….and you seemed attracted and into him?”

    is what I feel resonant with. I consider myself anxious based on the book. However depending on the other person in the relationship it seemed my style switched. Sometimes it felt I was straddling the fence between two. So I kinda felt my style was not “black and white”. If we should keep throwing the baby out with the bath water just because he has an avoidant style….then what.

    No pun intended, but I know of a couple with a little 2 year old boy. If you stand aside and watch him you would label him as avoidant.

    I am not saying to change your mind about the man it is just that my thinking is your application of the book to the relationship kinda felt like throwing the book at him.

  189.  #189Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:51 am

    He put his hand around your throat???!!!


  190.  #190Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 7:53 am


    Yes, they can…I agree! but he didn’t want to hear it… and just to be clear when I took the test he didn’t test as an avoidant… but I told him that he knows himself and what he feels and if he says he is avoidant,,, so that is what he is! I wasn’t going to try and convience him that I was right and he was wrong. That’s disrespectful!

    and I told him it just takes making adjustments..

    He said he didn’t want to respond to my needs… he said that last night! He said, I can’t let you in b/c of the pain I still have in me from losing a child… I know that pain… I told him I understood that pain… and he is right when you lose a child …it is hard hard to let anyone in… he knows what he needs and it isn’t me!

    I agree! and I get off track at times.. ( I’m human and not perfect) and lose the curiosity and then judge,,,,but then I get to do the work on it… and un-do it… it’s a process and it’s for a reason…


  191.  #191Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Lisa – what you are now writing about this man leaves me feeling like he has split personality. I know everyone has issues. We have to decide what issues we can handle.

  192.  #192Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 7:58 am


    I needed that….


  193.  #193Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 8:05 am

    @FW it might have on this blog but that doesn’t mean I did it to him… I looked at what you said… and I centered myself and dropped it before I saw him on Sunday…

    that is what I mean about not knowing the whole story…and the control issues.. etc… there is more to it then one might see on this blog…

    plus, even my friends Knew I needed to let him go… my daughter ( older one) did also, she saw it in him months ago…

    but if someone wants to deem me the bad guy and the one throwing the book at him…nothing I can do to change it…

    I was into him… that doesn’t mean that it was right for me… I learned the lesson yesterday, I needed to learn… I wasn’t shocked when it ended… that’s what happens when you learn what you need to learn…

    and again! I wasn’t perfect! (who is- its a process) and it feels like its ok for him to do things to me and not ok for me to make a mistake with him… that concerns me…

    @Beloved…. I’m wanting that for me now.. not putting up with BS!!!! I loved that!


  194.  #194Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 8:07 am

    Lisa, I hope you’re not feeling too upset today. I haven’t read all the comments, but the ones I have felt hard to read.

    I’ve followed your story since when I first found the blog. Hopefully it’s OK if I share some thoughts with you?

    Regarding ‘attached’. It’s really an oversimplification of adult attachment theory. There is value in understanding these concepts. Looking for the explanation of a particular relationships success/failure through this book is not helpful.

    I mentioned before, but I think it got lost in the huge thread, I honestly don’t see you as secure. I think you are anxious with secure attributes that you’ve developed because you’ve worked on your stuff.

    I observed you at your best when you were working through your stuff and your issues.

    There was way to much focus on “M”. Now, I realize that the perspective here on the blog is skewed because we don’t get the whole picture. It just felt controlling. It felt suffocating- all that brain power focused on every little thing with him.

    I used to have a major problem with therapizing men in my relationships. I grew up learning that love is telling someone what’s wrongvwith them and how to fix it. Forwarding articles, or books, etc, to a man is covert therapizing. Even if he asks for it. I wouldn’t bring it up so that he knew to ask for it, unless we were very stably committed. I read all the relationship material that I do for myself. Not for a particular relationship. It’s for my personal growth. Now, if CW asks me why I seem different, I will be honest– he asked specifically and I told him about Alison Armstrong and he even read ‘Keys to the Kingdom’. But there are many relationship books that I would not share with him- they are my personal business– and he would take it the wrong way if he knew what they were and read them. It’s not about him. It’s about me and my stuff.

    It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback ( or Tuesday morning) but I think things could have gone differently with “M” if you could just relax and ” just be”. That is the ultimate state and vibe that I am trying for every day. Just being. Men love that. And they love a woman who appreciates what they do. They love a woman they can make happy.

    It sounded like M loves you. But maybe he just has too many things to deal with right now and didnt see how he could manage it all and work hard to make you happy? Maybe he just needs some space without any pressure, to sort things out?


  195.  #195Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 8:08 am


    That is my point… I’m being judged without the whole story..

    I have no idea why he put his hands on my throat… he is into control…that is what I’ve been saying all along… he didn’t ever ask me what I wanted… he just dictated to me…

    he has control issues b/c he has felt so out of control at times in his life…

    but I don’t and didn’t psy analyze him…

    putting his hands on my throat during sex was not OK! and most especially since he shrugged it off… and gave me no explaination…


  196.  #196Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Grabbing my throat would definitely be a deal breaker for me.

  197.  #197Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 8:17 am


    Ok I can find that… and like i said when things are stressful or too much yes, the anxious come out…

    and I don’t thearpize him… but if things are dysfunctional… yes, I start looking for answers.. b/c I don’t want to be in another controlling relationship…that’s my pattern and I’m working on breaking it…

    and also when someone is working on deep issues, of course they will come off as insecure b/c they are digging deep into crappy stuff!

    and it’s ok if I’m a anxious… I’m ok with that… and I think the book gave me what I needed and now I can put it down.. I know what I needed to know from it… and it wasn’t to make “M” a bad person or use it against him.. it was for me to have some clarity about something that was already bothering me for months and I needed some backup…

    and yes, I think that b/c of the truama he is dealing with it could be bringing out the avoidant in him….

    I told him I think he is secure…he didn’t think so….

    Ok…. love your honesty! thanks for your bluntness… really I do … appreciate it…

    I’m feeling very calm and centered and back to me again…

    I’m sorry my venting caused such a big issue… but I’ve learned so much from this…

    I’m a vicitim and I’m obcessive and I’m anxious all are good ones for me to do the work…


  198.  #198Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 8:22 am

    There is no issue. I also don’t see you as a victim.

    You are processing and helping all of us who are reading your process. Like everything else there is always the possibility of misreading or misunderstanding.

    Give yourself some space. Right now you are likely to be sensitive to everything. And rightly so.

  199.  #199Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 8:34 am

    “he has control issues b/c he has felt so out of control at times in his life…

    but I don’t and didn’t psy analyze him…”

    Can you see this? This is psych analysis & then saying you don’t do that.

    For me, looking for evidence of something wrong with a man, defining his issues, explaining why he does things or doesnt do things, finding all the things wrong with a relationship are all ways that I can ease the anxiety of dealing with my own stuff. Right?

    When I develop a list a ways a man is screwed up and can’t give me what I want, and will never be able to, it becomes a self-fulfilling situation. And it means I don’t have to go deeper on my own stuff- how I’m creating my own reality and not accepting what “is”.


  200.  #200Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 8:41 am

    “I’m feeling very calm and centered and back to me again…”

    I’m wondering if you feel calm again because you have de-activated (or “M” has) from the anxiety causing cycle?

  201.  #201seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 8:44 am

    I feel confused as to why Lisa is defensive about what she posted. I feel confused. We post and process. We are open and feeling. We comment with love on each others journey. We shine a light where there is darkness so we may have another place to view our inner landscapes. With love and no judging. With love………………………. always with love. Thank you

  202.  #202Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 8:52 am

    🙂 Seahorse
    This is true. Even when it’s blunt or tough love it’s still with love because we are all here for the same reason. Even if our particular circumstances are different, we all desire the same thing ultimately.


  203.  #203seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 8:56 am

    I was thinking back to myself trying to be a smart alec………………… a meany pants:( The one thing I did perfect and use still is the STARE. It is the no words, eyebrow slightly raised and no emotion showing stare. Quiet stare. In front of everybody, just be quiet and stare at the person who said a painful thing…………………….

    Only now, I also use the feeling/speaking tool with it:) When triggered, I stop and breathe first! Most important I have found to breathe first and it has to be down low…….. Then I feel the yucky and know that it is okay and then speak the truth. Sometimes the person has no idea that it hurts to hear what they just said………… in some cases I don’t need to speak because the intent wasn’t to hurt me, it is their way of being and speaking. There are boundaries for me though, and that’s when I speak………………No ‘you’s’ only ‘I’s’……………………………… I feel better inside loving me and others. I feel really peaceful letting go and being me again after this long while. it feels like I found my best friend after being separated for a long time. I am thinking it feels like vulnerability………… I like it:)

  204.  #204seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Wildgeranium! 🙂 Oh my goodness……… When I read your name, I can remember the smell of my favorite geranium! Love is always the answer…….. that feels really good to write.

  205.  #205Heart on July 23, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Lisa – it’s really late her

  206.  #206Shar Lean Way Back on July 23, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Lisa, Based on all the things he said to you whilst breaking up. I feel good about you learning from him and moving on.
    This really said it for me
    “I never felt good enough for him… and I tolerated it… he would say things to me about people with low income.. etc… I told him that tonight…that I never felt I was in the right social class for him… and I noticed he never said anything about it…

  207.  #207seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 9:11 am

    I am reminded of the comedy Roast that they do. How it’s acceptable to come up with the most horrendous thing to say about somebody. In a way it feels sad……………………. Irony? I don’t know. It feels funny at times but mostly I feel sad when watching them. I change the channel…………………… change the channel in real life??? hahahahahahaha!!!! That feels better

  208.  #208Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Thank you for your kind words, Heart 🙂

    I can assure you, most of what I know has been acquired by tremendous amounts of pain, and then healing. And I am in such a lovely, contented place in my life now, so happy with myself, so I think any value in what I share comes from that.

  209.  #209Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 9:13 am


    Love and hugs to you and your hurting heart.

  210.  #210Heart on July 23, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Lisa -it’s really late here and I’m sleepy so I might not make sense. I read your happy-melting-M-is -amazing posts in the last thread and then I read about the break up and I felt concerned. I wondered how could things go wrong in a day? – and my heart went out to you. Also I, myself, have read some material recently and it has changed my perspective somewhat. I remembered when I made mistakes while trying to understand men and Was way off point and I felt like M was feeling unloved or unappreciate or just not good enough for you and I thought if I could point you in that direction you and he could reunite and you could be happy Lisa again. Maybe I’m projecting….maybe I’m trying to get old-Heart to correct her old “mistakes”…I don’t know. I felt frustrated, ganged up against and misunderstood by the end of the interaction and I believe I could have handled by last post to you better.
    Good Luck with your healing.

  211.  #211seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 9:24 am

    ((((( Heart)))))))))) Sweet Heart big hugs!

  212.  #212Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 9:24 am

    When you are not hurting so much, I would love it if you looked again at what Heart, and Feminine Woman, and Dominique from the previous thread, and even Erika and Melanie are saying.

    I also felt that way, but didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want to hurt you.

    I am not sure if my perspective is helpful to you, but I have found people can heal and change tremendously right before your very eyes as you focus on the positive in them and what they are doing to show you they love you. Often it is VAST and when you really do this exercise, your eyes get opened to it. I literally wept when I saw how D (whom someone, if they had a mind to, would classify as very avoidant) was expressing his love for me in myriad and profound ways that I was missing utterly because I was focusing on his faults and shortcomings.

    I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.

    But for me this is the thing. I love him. I don’t want to be without him. If you do not feel that way about M, I think you might have ultimately made the right choice in ending it. I think we might have just been concerned for you that you might have been pushing him away, perhaps unconsciously.

    Love and hugs to you! you are lovely

  213.  #213Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 9:42 am

    A funny thing happened last night. I got an email from someone I reconnected with while I was on vacation in Seattle last year with my ex. He owns a restaurant there and we dropped in while we were in town for the weekend and had dinner. It was a bit awkward because there was some competition between them and my friend (whom I knew over 20 years ago) was very forthright about wanting to see me and get together in CA (where I live) or in Seattle! And this was right in front of my ex. So bold. Anyway, I kinda downplayed it at the time since the whole thing was uncomfortable, but since then my ex and I broke up, and this is the first time I’ve felt excited about someone else! So nice to feel like this again. It feels so good!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  214.  #214Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Oh my. I feel my heart melting

    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

  215.  #215Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 9:51 am

    FWIW, I appreciate both Lisa’s posts and Heart’s posts. I can understand how what Heart is saying could trigger some defensiveness, and I still think it’s helpful what she’s saying. Not as the “absolute truth” – just as something to sit with … I also hear Lisa working through her feelings and that maybe SHE was “just not into” this man even though she tried to make it work … and I honor that too … maybe some of the stuff that was going on was a reflection that deep down she knew he’s not the right guy. I don’t know, I’m not here to tell anyone what the “truth” is for them … I do though really value having both of the perspectives and not feeling like we need to shut either one out … because I feel like letting all the voices speak freely is what’s going to get us to our absolute “truth” …

  216.  #216BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 9:52 am

    With a little distance and clarity,
    I do believe that my friends who think C was afraid I might accuse him of sexual harassment were right.
    I’m remembering a story about the other woman who works here and a guy she had an affair with, he made one off comment about her toe nail polish and he got fired.

    I feel relieved, and a little mischievous.
    I don’t feel the need to set things right or reconnect, I actually feel al little amused on the surface and as I type this I am feeling deeper into my heart and filling up with compassion.

    I’m liking the distance, I feel much more relaxed.
    I’m okay with it. What I said had unintended consquences that I feel really really okay with actually. The atmosphere was a little too sexually charged at work for my comfort, in an inappropriate place and with a man who isn’t available.
    The universe really is conspiring FOR me!


  217.  #217Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 9:54 am

    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

    yep….I love CW just as he is–spots and all–or I don’t truly love him.


  218.  #218Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I also want to honor the deep part of me that is very laser focused on one man. She feels like that perspective is not allowed, and I told her that it is allowed. We are going to embrace all of me, and we are not going to pretend anymore. She has pretty much shut down several areas of my life because she says we are not going on from here without him. She says she will not date one other man because it’s a waste of time. And she’s not going to do it. She feels very sad that she has been so “shut down” by so much relationship “advice” and “shoulds” and “conventional wisdom.” and not allowed to speak her truth. She’s not going to be shut down anymore. I honor her truth today. I honor all of me. If she can be this powerful at shutting down my life, she must have something important to say.

  219.  #219Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 10:06 am

    @Wildgerainum… my post got lost I think..hope this isn’t a repeat…

    I can see what you are saying.. I wouldn’t have Of course! attracted him otherwise…right?

    However for me, I’m looking at myself, and my issues..but his were more serious.. for ME! that is my opinion and the one that matters.. putting his hand over my throat… was huge sign for me… too much control issues..

    Now one could argue with it, that’s ok.. it’s my opinion and the one I’m sticking with.. my psy analyzing a situation once it gets to the point where I start acting anxious and obsessive tells me, I need to really STOP and look at it… its not like I was doing it for 6mos…

    I wasn’t trying to analyze him, but the entire situation to see if it was healthy for me or not! That has worked good for me…

    on side note:
    So, here is the thing… SO WHAT if I made mistakes… he did too! and Big ones! I need to be able to not have to be perfect to be in a loving and healthy relationship! thousands of people are in relationships, and they aren’t perfect and they have issues and make mistakes.. I need to be able to do that…have an opportunity to see it and apologize for it and be loved anyways… just like I did him! when he made some big ones…

    I’m tired of having to make me more better for a man! When I’m really good now! and I have lots to offer anyone… lots! I’m a damn good partner…. and no I’m not perfect, and yes, I have flaws…

    Thanks for reminding me of that… I’m glad you said it……. it makes me step up…

    @FW about the hand around my throat….I’m concerned that it wasn’t an immediate deal breaker and why I didn’t leave and move more sooner… I did use my feeling messages, but I didn’t act…that concerns me… that I was going to let it slide… it wasn’t until this morning I remembered it happening… not a good sign…

    I’m off the posts now…. I need to focus on getting my life and my child’s life back on track.. heal and move forward…

    My ex even told me today, Lisa you weren’t happy with him, I could see that…

    @Elsie thanks a ton for your post last night.. it really helped me see clearly!!! <3

    Love and hugs

  220.  #220Lisa on July 23, 2013 at 10:08 am


    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

    and that doesn’t mean I stay with him… I can still love him and do what is healthy for me!

  221.  #221Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Lisa, it does feel like all the “reasoning” gets in the way of being directly in touch with your truth … not sure if that will resonate …

    What I’d be asking is “how did it feel to me?”

    I get very instant gut feelings about guys when I meet them that almost invariably turn out to be correct, and the mistakes I’ve made were in overriding those feelings.

    Like a couple of long-term relationships where I knew from day one I was not into the guy. It didn’t feel right, and that did NOT change over time.

    Putting all avoidant/secure etc. analysis aside, what was your gut feeling about this man? I’m hearing that you just weren’t feeling it and that you were trying to make something work when it was not meant to work … I dunno, that’s what I’m hearing. I don’t think it needs to be any more complicated than that. Our intuition is very powerful.

  222.  #222Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 10:13 am

    The very second that I met “Felt Unsafe” Guy in person, my intuition went “No F-ing way.” And then as things played out, it was obvious why my intuition was saying that loud and clear. It was an instantaneous understanding “no this guy is not my match, not even close.”

  223.  #223Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 10:17 am


    chiming in here because of something similar in my previous relationship. The hands over the throat thing, of course that is a deal breaker, and it indicates there is something seriously wrong with this man. Chances are there were signs like this (maybe not so blatant) earlier in the relationship that you ignored. I’m just saying this because this is what I did. my ex never did anything as violent as the throat thing, but he did other things to intimidate me and subtly threaten me. I chose to sweep these under the rug because there were other things I liked about him so much. But it was a huge lesson for me in the future to not ignore these red flags. They show up early on because they aren’t flukes, these are indicators of a man’s character.

  224.  #224Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 10:18 am

    3 Ways to Know If Our Perceptions of Each Other Are Accurate

    By Marissa Walter

    “If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people.” ~Virginia Woolf

    If you’ve ever listened to someone’s description or opinion of you and it sounded completely alien, you probably found yourself wondering where on earth they were coming from.

    We are told that on a universal, spiritual level, the way you perceive someone is more than just an opinion; it’s actually a reflection of you being projected onto that person.

    So if someone tells you that you’re beautiful, kind, or have a good heart, they can only do so because those qualities are present within them. Conversely, if you see someone as dishonest, unkind, or manipulative, that’s because you, yourself, are projecting those parts of you onto the other person.

    When I was going through the depths of healing from adultery and my marriage break-up, I recalled a lot of things my ex-husband told me about myself—some of which I accepted; a lot of which I did not.

    It was very important to me to use forgiveness, self-love, and a sense of perspective as my tools to move on. I worked hard on my own issues, and accepted responsibility for the things within me that had brought me that harsh experience.

    But I have always struggled with this concept that “you can only see in others what you have within you.”

    It’s not because I only want to believe the good things people say about me, or because I think I have no bad traits.

    It’s because when dealing with unacceptable or in some cases abusive behavior in life, it is very difficult to hear and accept that the negative conduct you have received from someone else is simply your own darkness being brought into the open, and nothing to do with the other person.

    This was how I had always interpreted such teachings, and doing so made me feel worse about myself instead of better.

    I now understand that it is possible to witness or observe a behavior objectively, for what it is, without necessarily being that yourself.

    This is true of both positive and negative interactions. For example, I can acknowledge and deeply admire those who can speak publicly with great confidence, but I don’t possess this ability.

    This is not a defeatist attitude or low self-esteem talking; it’s simply an observation. Likewise, I can see someone’s behavior toward me as negative or destructive, but know I’m not like that. I no longer feel the guilt of believing that in order to have observed it, I must be like that too.

    What I believe is that we all have is the potential for the behaviors we are being shown.

    I know that I have the potential for great public speaking; and I know I have the potential for manipulative or intolerant behaviour. But though can I recognize these traits in others, it’s not who I choose to be right now.

    This is not intended as way to avoid responsibility for your own behavior, or an opportunity to judge others while saying “but I’m not like that.” But it is important to know, especially when we are feeling emotionally vulnerable, that sometimes it isn’t about us; it’s about them.

    Here are three ways of working out whether what a person says about you is really a reflection of themselves. It’s also useful and healthy to use this exercise from the opposite perspective to see if you are ever projecting your own issues onto another:

    1. Is their opinion about me something I’ve felt about myself?

    We have a deep knowledge of our own psyche—our fears, our dreams, our abilities, and our strengths and faults.

    Does what the other person is saying ring true on any level? If they are saying great things but the words sound hollow to you, it won’t really be about you. But if your heart lifts when someone calls you generous, it’s because you know you are, and they have struck a lovely chord.

    2. Is their opinion about me something I’ve been shown by other people?

    Although trusting your own inner knowing is vital, we are interactive creatures with varied experiences of each other.

    Unless you have a real Jekyll and Hyde personality, other people’s perceptions of you will be largely similar. So, if one person is telling you that you are arrogant and stubborn, while everyone else sees you as kind, patient, and tolerant, then it’s most likely that this one person is bringing their own issues into what they are saying about you.

    3. Do they have another agenda?

    Does the person telling you about yourself want something from you emotionally or physically? Are they speaking to you, or about you, from a place of love, or fear?

    If they have an agenda, then what you are being told about yourself, whether good or bad, is likely to be manipulation on their part and no reflection on you.

    So why are we being told and shown things by others’ behavior if it’s not actually about us?

    I believe that the actual message, whether it’s, “you are selfish” or “you should be a professional dancer,” is not the end purpose of the exchange.

    It’s what we learn about ourselves from our response that really matters. Is the comment something we need to pursue or let go of? Does it require a reply or acknowledgement? What does it say about us if we accept what they say, or don’t?

    The things being presented to us through other people’s actions or words simply show us what we are capable of, not necessarily what we are.

    For me, encounters and interactions with others are ripe learning opportunities for growth. We learn to use discernment, tolerance, compassion, and gratitude. We are shown the potential to be strong inspiring and happy; we are also shown the potential to be fearful, negative and unloving.

    What we choose to be is up to us.


  225.  #225Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Lisa, another thought, I’m not trying to say that you did anything wrong, and I know you feel sad about the relationship ending (I know I did about mine ending, and I still do at times). I think, though, there is always something to learn from a relationship and it sounds like maybe you and I had similar things to learn from ours. Take care of yourself and give yourself time to heal! Time really does heal all wounds.

  226.  #226Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 10:52 am


    You are wonderful just the way you are!

    The reason you are being held up to such a high standard is because you are on this path. I know it can feel frustrating at times because you think, I’m so wonderful, and I have so much to give! And you are, and you do! But once you start on the journey of self-awareness, there is no going back.

    Lucky, lucky you! Just think what’s in store for you!


  227.  #227Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I just learned a man doesn’t commit just because he is in love.

    He needs to know that he can afford this woman on every level. Including knowing he is capable of meeting a woman’s needs on all levels.

  228.  #228Indigo on July 23, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Feminine Woman & Wildgeranium,

    It’s really truly how I feel. I was never able to talk myself out of it, and neither was anyone else, though many tried. It was always there. I love this man, just as he is. And I love who I am with him.

  229.  #229seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 11:43 am

    224 Wildgeranium- Whoa! that was a shining ray of light for me:) I love that. Thank you

    I am reminded of the saying………… Will you use your power for good or evil? I walk on the sunny side up. Walk the walk and talk the talk……….. yeah, that feels good.

  230.  #230seahorse on July 23, 2013 at 11:45 am

    I had a comment go into mod………… oops:)

    I thanked Wildgeranium for 224. Thank you!!!!!

  231.  #231miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I have no texting power..

  232.  #232miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I have no texting power..

  233.  #233miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    dooc afternoon,,, i hope you are feeling well today. wpndering how your day is going and if your smiling… u have a beautiful smile.

  234.  #234Zara on July 23, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Avoid the Word YOU – Even When You’re Speaking Your Truth
    Written by Rori Raye
    11 April 2011

    Here – the blogging is the practice.

    Basically – I’m asking you to observe the same rules on the blog as I ask you to observe with a man – so you can practice.

    And I know how hard it is.

    How easy it is to feel triggered and angry, and not know what to do with it – and want to practice expressing it.

    I WANT you to be BOLD!

    I want you to speak the truth.

    And yet – I want you to do it in a certain way that’s all about you – and zero about him or anyone else.

    Just because a man triggers you doesn’t mean it’s about him.

    If a man breaks into your house, hurts you and robs you – that’s harder.

    You don’t need to ask yourself why was I home at that time? You don’t need to analyze your behavior. A man came into your space, and even with the best defense you could muster (however that looked) – he did something that impacted you.

    In love – it can be like this. A man can cheat on you and give you a horrible disease.

    A man can gamble away all your money and leave you destitute.

    A man can have another wife and marry you anyway, and leave you officially unmarried and without insurance or legal protection.

    In this circumstance – he did this, and you are the accidental bystander.

    In this circumstance, rage and lots of YOU words seems totally justified, and it IS! Of course it’s righteous to be angry when someone hurts you – on purpose or not.

    And still – for purposes of getting you to where you want to go in love – I don’t want to focus on this righteous anger – I want to focus on the language and mindset around ANYTHING – no matter HOW horrible it was or is that will work best to HEAL the depths of pain, shame, guilt, fear, grief that the righteous anger is surrounding for you (and in a very positive way, too).

    I want to encourage you to connect with, channel and USE your anger – and yet, SPEAK in words of only yourself.

    Instead of using your anger to strike out at the perpetrator because of what he did – I want you to simply express that anger out because that propulsion of emotion is what you FEEL!

    In other words – you need no excuse to feel and express rage.

    It belongs to you, it’s part of YOUR healing emotions.

    Because nothing you do, say or think can change what has already happened…I want you to do what is best for you – NOW!!

    And what is best for you is to focus on you.

    The process is pretty methodical. You follow your own inner workings and process and share it as much as you can.

    And this is totally different from “complaining” – and totally different from wishing other people bad, using the word “you” and getting them involved in your process.

    With a criminal – it gets you nowhere. Better to focus on what WOULD get you somewhere.

    And with a regular man who’s simply done something wrong – something that made you feel bad or angry – talking about HIM will only get his defenses operating full tilt.

    His ego and his boundaries won’t allow you to run him down – even if you’re right.

    He’ll shut you out and walk away from you – which is what I’d advise you to do with a man who tries to do that with YOU – a man saying things to you that feel bad to you – that feel like he’s extending his world to impact yours in some negative way…that he wishes you ill or hates you.

    When you are alone or with a therapist – you can explore other things – but ALWAYS – talking about OTHERS is not the way to go.

    You are always just talking about yourself and REACTING to others.

    So as you write – privately in your journals, and here, on this monumental journal of all of us – see if you can share your deepest feelings without involving other people at all…(except to set context by saying lightly what happened to trigger you…).

    Love, Rori

  235.  #235Zara on July 23, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    If We Think About Something – Do We Attract It?
    Rori Raye
    Saturday, 20 November 2010

    What happens when we “label” a man? Meaning – labeling a man “toxic” or a “sociopath” or a “narcissist,” as we do sometimes here, and as I do in my Toxic Men program.

    The “Law of Attraction” concern is that if we start thinking about men in those confining ways – we’ll create more of that in the world, and sort of fulfill our own expectations around attracting men we label with those “qualities.”

    Well…though I want us to pay attention to what we’re “putting out into the world” in terms of our thoughts – I’m totally NOT concerned with what we put into the world with our feelings.

    Paying attention to our feelings and following the trail our emotions provide to lead us to how we “create” our thoughts and our experiences is the biggest asset we have!

    What I want us to watch for is what happens when we RESIST our feelings.

    It is always, to me – crucial to FEEL what we’re feeling, and then, if we choose to go in a different direction, one that feels better, that feels like more of a contribution to the world than another spear chucked into it, we shift OTHER things.

    We shift ACTIONS. We simply DO something different. Or we IMAGINE something different.

    This is very different than resisting – it’s sort of leaning into a curve, or – you know how they say to get out of a skid in your car? You don’t slam on the brake, and you don’t give up the wheel – you DRIVE through it.

    And as we shift something we CAN shift – something we may have written down, or know in advance that it feels good to us – our thoughts shift with it, and then our feelings shift (because, really, it’s not a big wrench-like thing to shift feelings – it’s all in the Soup – and we’re just touching a different feeling in that Soup.

    Yes – each feeling may have it’s own vibration – some vibrate faster or slower or higher or lower – but they’re all in there.

    And as for labeling – in my Toxic Men program, I really try to explain these labels, because it just helps sometimes to get clear on some things.

    Sometimes we have great difficulty feeling what feels good and what feels bad, and we need some kind of objective help.

    The only way we can bring something like that into our love life is to help us break patterns – in other words – the last 5 men in my life were like “that.”

    They had “those” qualities, and they scored “that” on my Toxic Men quiz, and so I know that “that’s” what I’m attracted to and what I attract.

    So I can notice “that” more quickly now.

    This is helpful.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with FEAR.

    I don’t believe in worrying that I’ll attract something I’m afraid of.

    That will make me more afraid, and make me want to resist feeling my fear.

    I’d rather look at it this way…

    I feel this feeling.

    Now what?

    Or, I’ve been through this experience, now what?

    What can I learn?

    How can I take this experience and this fear apart and shift it to something that feels good, and takes me in a direction that feels good, and releases my hold on that old thing I was focusing on?

    And most important – Do I want to keep feeling this feeling over and over and over again? If I DON’T – then, what thought or activity or choice or judgment is leading me to a place where I feel that feeling?

    Here’s how you work it – you use the feeling you have to retrace the thought that helped the feeling come about. If every time you eat yogurt, or a candy bar, or a diet soda you feel awful after – then that’s easy – the yogurt, candy, soda is not sitting well with you.

    Same with a thought. The thought “He’s going to hurt me” makes you feel bad, makes you remember hurt, and makes you see a new man through the lens of that feeling.

    Thinking – “Oh…I feel so attracted to him…he’s my one and only…” creates a feeling where you become AFRAID of LOSING him.

    The FEELINGS are your CLUES.

    And – just trying to turn those thoughts around doesn’t work, because you really won’t “buy” that immediate reverse.

    The only way to change your thoughts and beliefs is to follow your feelings, and then SWITCH your thoughts, actions, attention onto something ELSE – something that creates a better feeling.

    So…“He’s my one and only” can become “I’m so damned sexy!” or “Oh…that little dog is SO sweet!” or “I can’t wait to clean out that drawer” or “Wow, that guy in the corner is looking at me.” And you pet yourself, or you pet the dog, or you smile at the new man with a completely open heart…and then you can smile at the man you feel so attached to with an open heart, too…and just allow the new feelings to flow.

    It’s not magic. but, if you practice these techniques and tools all day long, and before you go to bed, and when you wake up in the morning – it’s pretty magical how quickly you feel better and stronger and more powerful around EVERYTHING in your life.

    Then, the thought and label “he’s toxic” can refer to your feeling BAD when you’re with him…and then you can pay more attention to everything you’re feeling and speak about it to him – even in those “label” terms.

    Love, Rori

  236.  #236Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    some people like hand around the throat sex… hmmm i feel curious to try this

  237.  #237Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    i def want to try hand around the back of the neck facedown sex

  238.  #238Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Just had a session with one of my clients. She’s in a group of women who are all very frustrated with the dominant “masculine” model of business and coaching. They have all spent a lot of time and money on these big name coaching programs without seeing results. I’m pretty convinced one of the reasons is that it just feels BAD for most women to be required to make sales calls, and even worse to make “high pressure” sales calls where you’re instructed to keep pressuring the prospect until they say “yes” on the spot. I’m feeling some inspiration to create a program to teach people how to run a more “feminine energy” business though it’s not clear enough yet for me to take action. I do sense there is a great need for this, and that even many men are not comfortable with the “high pressure” sales call approach that’s predominantly being taught.

    I remember interviewing one potential business coach and I didn’t hire her in part because she gave me no written information in advance and wanted me to decide on the spot without from my perspective adequate understanding of what I was getting myself into … that felt BAD. And as a coach I would not feel good about prospects making decisions that way. For the coaching to be successful, the choice needs to arise out of their truth not out of a high pressure sales call.

    I feel frustrated that this is the dominant model, because it feels bad and really pushes down our feminine qualities … and I can tell looking at many people who practice it that while they may be making a lot of money, they are not healthy or balanced … it shows up in their physical body … and I also sense there is an opportunity here.

  239.  #239Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    A lot of women like hand on the throat sex, and hair pulling, and other forms of dominance. I’m not here to judge what feels good or bad to any particular woman.

  240.  #240Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    I am reminded of men who use analogies of precious jewels to teach their daughters how to behave with men. One told my daughter what he told his, that garbage can be easily found by side of the street where anyone can have access to it. On the contrary for the most part precious jewels and valuables are locked away where they for the most part can only be viewed. Then he told her when it comes to men you have to choose what you want to be. His mentality is that men should work to be able to get access to you and your body. You should not be so available for them to experiment with.

  241.  #241Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    i like hair pulling!

    but you know what i don’t like the emotional agression stuff

    i like this hair pulling stuff on a physical level… helps my body relax into the tension

  242.  #242Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    i feel angry at teh garbage analogy



  243.  #243Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    FW, I can relate to that analogy though I have mixed feelings about “locked away” … actually your post made me think again about something I am sitting with … I don’t have the words right now … off to acupuncture 🙂

  244.  #244Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Rachel Jayne Groover teaches Feminine model business stuff

    its a growing field now, i know several coaches saying they are using this new model

  245.  #245Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    I too have mixed feelings about several things in the analogy. Yet I understand where they are coming from. It was their way of teaching their girls that they are the prize. I was there when one was talking to my daughter and it was clear she got what he was saying.

  246.  #246Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    i feel guilty

    im a hater beating myself u p lol

    i love my noticing

    im not dressed for my date that is coming now

  247.  #247Daria on July 23, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    i am SO the prize

    holding myself as the Queen with Dman the other day led to us having wonderful connected sex when we did

    and i got my pussy ate tho he liek Getright didnt really feel comfortable with it but he did it cuz i was so good at really being congruent with my boundaries

  248.  #248Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Hmm…. Lisa, I’m sorry that you are hurting… and I know it’s hard to read some of these posts… I do feel in agreement for the most part with FW, Heart, Indigo, and Wildgeranium …. and I also resonate with what Erika is saying about you maybe just not being into him (which easily could have caused an unconscious sabotage of the whole thing)… I remember being surprised seeing a couple places that you didn’t feel chemistry with him etc….. and it seems possible that that right there is the bottom line in this whole thing: you really weren’t feeling “it” for him – and that’s not anyone’s fault and doesn’t make either of you bad or wrong in any way.

    About the hands on the neck – Unless he was actually trying to fully choke you and prevent you from breathing, that’s actually a very common erotic move that many healthy men and women enjoy. It’s not really about control. I do understand that it could feel a little frightening if it was new to you…. and also not everyone likes the same things (there are very likely things you enjoy that other people would dislike)…. so your feelings are valid…. but I wouldn’t make assumptions and judgments about him on this.

    Hugs. I hope you feel better soon. <3

    ~ Melanie

  249.  #249Daria on July 23, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    oh and also, if i felt icky or unloved with a man putting his hand on my neck i would FREAk. or at least stop the interaction then and there. probably feel way turned off and shock shaky

  250.  #250Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    “About the hands on the neck – Unless he was actually trying to fully choke you and prevent you from breathing, that’s actually a very common erotic move that many healthy men and women enjoy.”

    That being the case, don’t you think that if this being introduced for the first time, a man who has respect for your preferences and also some consideration for you would say something before or at least while doing that? So you can be aware of what’s happening?

    Now that I have typed that it just clarified in my consciousness that maybe the lesson here is about speaking up in the moment. Being on your own side about what you want and what feels comfortable for you.

  251.  #251Tereana on July 23, 2013 at 2:13 pm


    So… I guess I’m distracting myself by contacting another CD. This was a cool story – I started thinking about V before I left town for the summer. I wouldn’t have done anything, except that I saw someone from his company had been looking at my linked in page. Hm…so I took a chance and just texted, hi, how are you? He wrote back. Turned out, he broke up with his GF a couple weeks earlier and was single, and he wanted to see me. *teehee!*

    So we had out first-ever “dinner date,” except that we met as friends, so we split the check. But I was honestly so happy to see him, and he seemed amenable to “continuing” the date, and so we walked back to my place. He stayed over, and we didn’t have sex because neither of us had a condom. But it was so sweet. There is something nice & comforting about being with someone who’s body you know. I felt really comfortable and happy.

    At the same time, emotionally, it still feels like “friends.” I felt hurt when he dated another woman, after telling me he “wasn’t ready” for a relationship. Yet with her, he got ready. With me, he wants to be friends. And he’s attracted to me. But I don’t feel him wanting to take it further.

    It could be that I tend to lean forward with him. I do. Maybe I haven’t been practicing “leaning back.” Enough. I am afraid that I “come on too strong” with EVERYONE, and it turns people off, regardless of the context. That idea hurts me. I’ve always tried to be a strong person. Now I’m too strong? What gives? Why can’t people just like me for who I am? Why do people need to take me down when I’m assertive – is it just that they’re So used to me being a wallflower, and bending to everyone else’s will? Or am I really abrasive in my approach? Maybe some of both. I still am working on how to be assertive. It makes me anxious at times. So maybe that comes out.

    I got totally sidetracked…

    Anyway, V. We had a wonderful night, and then I went off for the summer. A week later, I met up with CCB. For the first time. It’s been a week since then.

    I really shouldn’t use V as a proxy contact. Though, he did chat to me on gchat last week, which was nice.

    Leaning forward is addictive.

    Must give up my addictions…

    But I did some “real” CD-ing today, too, with guys I saw on the street, and at work. (Have a job in Boston already!) That felt nice, and brought my mood up, considerably : )

    It’s good to feel attractive. And I have little or no desire to contact CCB. Well, some. Maybe a small bit. I wrote oit messages I didn’t send. But I can only think of negative consequences for me. And even though I’m excited to tell him something, that is just “urgency” on my part. In reality, it can wait…I still need time to let all the feelings flow through me anyway. And I’m not even sure if we’d make a good couple. Even if I never hear from him, I can feel complete…

  252.  #252Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    FW, I’m not sure he would know or even suspect that it could be a problem for her, especially not in the moment. If I remember correctly, it sounds like he did apologize when she said it upset her.

    Yes, I agree, it’s definitely about speaking up for yourself when you feel uncomfortable.

  253.  #253Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    After the first traumatic experience I can see why I if I were in Lisa’s shoes would need a man who is sensitive about my needs. I also believe that I need a healthy talking back and forth about sexual stuff. While I am open to experiencing surprises I know I have to be in a space where I feel tenderness to really melt into some experiences. Tossing me around wouldn’t sit well with me, neither hands on the throat. Maybe it would take years for me to settle into that.

  254.  #254Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    It’s interesting reading these thoughts, because on another forum the women are complaining about the men not being aggressive *enough* in these ways for their liking. 🙂

    Years ago I read a book that had a very long checklist for couples to share their likes/dislikes in the bedroom with each other…. the variety on the list was astounding… I think a checklist like that could be very helpful for preventing misunderstandings and lack of fulfillment.

  255.  #255Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    MMM maybe it is what I am used to but as far as I am concerned he does not need to know or suspect. I for some reason require?? (don’t know if this is the right word) men to be talking throughout. Or is it just my experience?

  256.  #256Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Wonder what Dominique would say about this one?

  257.  #257miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Nothing takes the place of hearing a voice and feeling a touch. I try to understand but to know that everything is going on all around makes it hard to grasp . Like dropping q little puppy of in the middle of a buddy downtown expressway. I do love and am willing and are trying… I need help.

  258.  #258Daria on July 23, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    whoa FeminineWoman you require men to be talking throughout? that feels intriguing tell more please

  259.  #259Daria on July 23, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    that might feel connecting for me… i wonder if i require that or could benefit from

  260.  #260Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    FW, a lot of women prefer more spontaneity from a man rather than telling or asking the whole way through. There is such a variety of likes/dislikes… it’s impossible for a man to “get it right” every time.

  261.  #261miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    A previous jewel is an understating comparison to a treasure that is. I am in a place where i have on one hand a love in my heart and a hope for what this had made me feel. And the other hand where have they went and why don’t they care. And now all i can say is i can’t stop wanting and loving. I will continue to improve myself. I see what this means for me. I don’t understand everything that’s Going on but i understand what i found in you. And i know what it breathed in my soul, i can’t ignore what this means. I can never forget it. And its also something that i can’t let go. Can’t i be seen as a necessity. Even if not , maybe desired. All i want is my treasure. My knees will bleed as i crawl to it.i love inlove i love

  262.  #262Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    wow, I’m shocked that so many here would take something like a man choking a woman lightly and like its ok since its sex play? that’s frightening to me to brush something off like that, that’s violent and abusive, on a blog like this and makes me wonder that women here will take violent sexual aggression as the norm and that it is OK and just because I didn’t say anything then thats the problem??? what???. just because it wasn’t controlling (though Lisa has mentioned that behavior frequently), its OK? Dangerous and slippery slope. I already think that women take so much ill-treatment from men here and we are yet encouraging of it??? WOW!!!

  263.  #263BeLoved on July 23, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding!
    got it…
    The memory of my interaction with C just wouldn’t turn me loose…I turned it over and over and over in my mind, trying to identify what was bugging me.

    It was a passive aggressive move. Totally.
    I feel so much shame around passsive aggression.
    I hate it. I don’t like it. I think it’s weak and cowardly and a sign of a weak person and weak in a way that is bad and shameful.

    I never want to be that way
    but I know I’ve done it tons and tons
    I don’t even want to love my passive-aggressiveness, I just want to get rid of it. Put it in a box, make it disappear.
    Ick ick ick.
    I love myself for being honest.
    I don’t even want to forgive myself for it…I want to FIX it, CHANGE it, DO something about it, ATONE for it with C, make myself wrong about it.

    I want to at least be more aware of it, so it doesn’t bug me so much.

    hate hate hate hate it.
    (No worries, y’all, I’ll get over it, just riffing…)

  264.  #264Daria on July 23, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    i just got struck by how decidedly obvious it is that im saying

    “i think you’ll be happier with her than you will with me”

    to bookieman

    i mean like i really believe this and even could say this and was imagining saying this which is the truth that i really am resonating


    i voted against myself this whole time, even though i tried to ‘figth’ it

    i really really believe this

    how could i not?

    i dont see how this could be different as this is so obvious reality to me

    i really mean that


    or maybe my truth is

    i dont think ill be happy with you given the experience of this situation

    but its also the other one


    energetic push away

    i wanna heal this

  265.  #265miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Your my world , the shelter from the rain
    Your my pills that take away the pain
    Your the light that helps me find my way
    Your the words when I have nothing to say.
    Still tangled up in you.

  266.  #266Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    i think ANy man will be happier with (any) Her than with me

    becuase being with me is not happy

    being with me is struggle and being with a demanding desperate crazy woman who takes on too much who takes on the world and stands on cliffs and blasts herself with lightning bolts

    and then gets iill and you basically gota follow her and care for her and that sounds terribly boring

    unless your broken and kinda scared of your sexuality yourself

  267.  #267Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    i cant offer shit but radical intensity and exoticness

    and thats not homy or assuring

    you cant land on intensity and exoticness

    only look from a distance and feel terrified by the great winds

    i feel sad!

    i love my sadness

    i want to heal this!

  268.  #268Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    at least you get to feel great honor in the presence of glory

    how can i make this feel homy safe and good too?

    i feel sad

    i really think youll be happier with her boo!

  269.  #269Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    no wonder domestic violence and abusive behavior is not taken seriously in our culture when we as women tolerate it and make excuses for it. It’s just sad. We need to take a stand and at the first sign of abusive behavior, put our foot down and walk away. Yuck.

    I know where I’m coming from because I’ve experienced it. And I’ve experienced so many people laughing (yes, laughing) at it and not taking it seriously and it SUCKED. Please take this kinda stuff seriously because it will just escalate if you don’t.

  270.  #270Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    i want too much and im too demanding

    im exacting, and even cruel

    and im so …. into me and you get no love boo

    you shouldnt stay with me im too cold and too intense and too metallic and too lightnign fire

    you should go with her you should go with her you should go with her

    that feels like a relief

    i feel fascinated

  271.  #271Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Liquid Light –

    i think you’re trippin… i never have had that and i want to try it in sex and if that bothers anyone they can suck it

    dont try to label my sex life abusive behavior just cuz your sexuality is different

    i find that just as ABUSIVE to my spirit and psychology

    i feel HElla mad (i think. i just feel numb)

  272.  #272Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    i feel sad

  273.  #273Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    i feel scared

  274.  #274Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    i feel guilty

  275.  #275Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    i feel pleased and content. i feel sigh of relief.


    attacking/defending ===> feeling release of tension

    but then cycle continues

  276.  #276Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    sorry for the attack Liquid Light

  277.  #277Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Daria defending her sexuality = mirror of what I do with men


    sigh wow cool

    comes off as ‘demanding’ or to me controlling, etc


    this feels cool to look at

  278.  #278Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Liquid Light,

    Where did anyone post that they were condoning sexual violence?

    I must be missing something.

  279.  #279Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    wow miranda faith i have “my knees will bleed as i crawl to it” fantasies too when im in love

    thats what i particularly remember most as a fantasy of mine with my first love years ago

    over cliffs and rocks

  280.  #280Daria on July 23, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    i feel surprised and intrigued to see it come up for someone else

  281.  #281Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 3:21 pm


    Ugh….We’re doing it all wrong!!!! 🙂

  282.  #282Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    just because he’s not punching you in the face and leaving bruises, doesn’t mean that its not abusive. we don’t need proof, we just need to feel that its not right and trust ourselves. that’s the most important thing. no man is worth losing our sense of ourselves and letting ourselves getting abused…in *any* way.

  283.  #283Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    I apologize if any of my comments on the subject triggered you. I do not, and will never, condone violence in a relationship–physical, emotional, sexual or any other type of violence.

    From the information that I had-reading Lisa’s posts–it was not clear to me that violence had occurred. I was reading Lisa’s own confusion there and would not want to jump to a conclusion one way or the other as to whether violence had occurred.

  284.  #284Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Liquid Light, I’m sorry my comments upset and worried you. None of us here are condoning violence of any kind. <3

  285.  #285Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    from what Lisa has said previously, her unease and her lack of trust with this guy because he wasn’t being respectful towards her and didn’t treat her that well at times, from her saying those things, so obviously there wasn’t a feeling of trust and acceptance and respect there, for the throat thing to happen in that context would be a huge red flag that this person is NOT SAFE. that kind of thing has to happen in an atmosphere of safety and trust after knowing someone for a long time IMHO. I’m not judging, just trying to be smart and wanting a man to treat me with respect in the bed and outside of the bed. Those are my boundaries…or will be.

    Also I’m guessing the throat thing was just a more blatant example…I bet that there were other signs previously in the relationship of his disrespecting, being abusive, threatening her even (My ex did this in very subtle ways but he was communicating to me in his own way about the terms of the relationship. we need to be attuned to these things as women otherwise we’ll get blindsided as I did.)

  286.  #286miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    I don’t know what to say except I am going to work on these things coming up here in the next couple weeks and get them taken care of. I am going to keep feeling this love and if I am still not wanted then so be it. I love u. Goodnight

  287.  #287miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    I don’t know what to say except I am going to work on these things coming up here in the next couple weeks and get them taken care of. I am going to keep feeling this love and if I am still not wanted then so be it. I love u. Goodnight. As I just got a message from my sister from you. I’m sorry your child is having these problems and I want to help. I suppose I can help by being all I can be for me, then I can be there for someone else and I hope its u.

  288.  #288Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Liquid Light, I would advise not having sex in the first place with a man you don’t feel safe and respected with.

  289.  #289Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    I’ve experienced controlling and disrespectful behavior from men. And, I’ve been controlling and disrespectful towards men.

    When I was experiencing it, it wasn’t abusive. In fact, often, it was not even conscious. I wasn’t tolerating anything due to my not being aware. And, when I was being controlling or disrespectful I wasn’t abusing my partners. I was just behaving in a habitual fashion. It was toxic, but not abusive.

    The point is: there is such a WIDE range of intensity in any behavior. To say disrespect=abuse is painting with too broad a brush.

    The only person who knows whether she was abused is Lisa. (and, btw, I’ve read the posts several times and I’m still totally confused as to when the throat incident happened, and what exactly was going on there.)

    I never read that she felt abused by him. Only that she felt he had behaviors that triggered her. And, she had behaviors that triggered him.

    My gut sense is that they both put an amazing amount of effort and caring into making it work. I suspect its not the end of the story. But the picture I was getting from Lisa’s posts was of mutual love, caring, effort, and working together with each others issues.


  290.  #290Vi on July 23, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Today it feels secure to be soft

  291.  #291Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    abuse is much more common than most people know. our tendency as women is to sweep it under the rug and write it off and make excuses for it. I’ve experienced it and don’t want others to do the same. We write it off because we don’t respect ourselves enough to expect better behavior from someone else. We all deserve to be respected but it’s not going to just happen, we have to demand it from the people we are involved with. That’s what I believe anyway.

  292.  #292Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Liquid Light, I think we all agree that accepting/tolerating abuse is not good.

  293.  #293Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    “we have to demand it from the people”

    Demanding things feels icky to me. It feels disrespectful.

  294.  #294Dominique on July 23, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Femininewoman – 255 -Though this isn’t something I would want to introduce into my own lovemaking, as Melanie said, this is not an uncommon practice among healthy couples. It’s not necessarily a control thing though it can be. It can also be a dom, submissive thing which again isn’t necessarily about control but more about role playing.

    Depending on the couple and on how skilled the person doing the choking is, I hear that it can heighten orgasmic sensation.

    Speaking up in the moment would be recommended if this is not something wanted. – This doesn’t feel good. I don’t want to do this. It would feel so much better……….

    He did apologize.

    Does this answer your question about what I might say?


  295.  #295Dominique on July 23, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Liquid Light – 261 – It doesn’t seem to me that anyone is encouraging or condoning choking during sex. I think the women here are questioning what it’s about and if this is something acceptable in any way, shape, or form for them.

    Sure it can be a dangerous thing, but it doesn’t have to be. It all depends on context and intent.


  296.  #296Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    When a man is really in tune with me, he does not need to talk to me throughout sex. For me, one of the ways I know that a guy is right for me is that we are so much on the same wavelength that he just “gets” it. He may not get every detail, and then I speak up – but if he keeps asking my permission, it says he has no real confidence or masculine power … There are plenty of relationships where dominance and submission are played with that are not abusive relationships, and it’s quite mainstream for women to like the mild dominance. They might not even admit it to their girlfriends …

    Now, if a woman really does not feel safe with a man who takes control of sex … okay, then she can speak up and choose other men. It doesn’t make it “wrong” for the women who enjoy this dynamic. It doesn’t make it “abuse.”

    One of the key ways I know if a man is right for me is if he can “flow” with me. Excessive talking about every details breaks that flow for me … This was a major problem with “Felt Unsafe” Guy. He didn’t “get” me at all. He was up in his head, most likely strategizing how he was going to get a relationship with me, and so he was not connected to me at all. It felt very, very tedious to me to express my negative feelings about almost everything he did. So that means … he’s not the right guy.

    With my exes that I was really “into,” they “got” me … sure there were still issues to talk through and mostly things just flowed … I can’t even imagine wanting to be in a relationship where there isn’t that chemistry and flow and “getting each other” …

  297.  #297Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Catching up on the blog….

    @LIsa – I’m sorry that you felt attacked earlier. I would have probably gotten way more defensive LOL – I think you handled it wonderfully.

    I do think everyone here (hopefully) is just trying to help no matter how it comes across. 🙂

    GS called me today but I didnt answer, and he didnt leave a message. I’m glad I didnt answer. I do NOT like the idea now that I only get phone calls during business hours regarding our life. When he gets himself to a place that is ready for me, outside business hours, then maybe I’ll take his call. By then, I may have moved on. Thats the truth, right there.

    I did not answer CollegeCd last night – his text was at 10pm. while I have never established that boundary it is time to do so. He isnt doing anything wrong because we have texted that late before, but frankly after finding out that he was on I didnt feel like speaking with him. I needed some time to think for myself. I am VERY proud that I completely got off of – and pulled it so I cant get on at all – I feel much better now.

    I did text him back this morning. He had asked last night if I bring my lunch or buy it at work. I am sure he is asking because if we start eating lunch once in a while, it would be expensive for him to take me out each time. The places near our work are quite pricey, and I have no problem with bringing my lunch and hanging out with him. So I texted back “I usually bring my lunch……”

    I havent heard back, so we’ll see. If he texts late again tonight, I’ll just text him in the morning and say, sorry, I’ve decided to go to bed earlier at night so I”m not as tired the next day.

    Anyway – I’m still a bit fussy about the thing. I guess it makes me feel like if I was the prize that he wouldnt even want to go on there anymore. Thats how the fairy tale story works…..right?!

  298.  #298prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    I am so upset right now! Literally spent the entire wknd with H and he never mentioned to me once that he was going out of town for his sons baseball. NOT ONCE! We have had a talk about this in the past cuz he would always wait until he was literally already out of town before he would tell me about it. I expressed to him that it made me feel much better to know ahead of time what plans were. Especially related to him going out of town cuz it happens a lot. He said that he understood and the next time it came up he did tell me ahead of time. Well now he’s back to not doing it again. He just sent me a text and after beating around the bush he told me that he is currently in Michigan (4 hrs away) for his sons baseball. UGH!!!!!! This drives me absolutely insane and I feel is disrespectful. I don’t know what else to do. I’ve already tried to talk to him about it in a “non-blaming” way. I’ve put my phone down at this point. I don’t even want to talk to him right now. Too pissed. I mean, am I wrong? He said he understood how I felt. Apparently it doesn’t matter to him.

  299.  #299miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    I believe if people would just be forthcoming and direct in person it would clear the air. When u care for someone u will go the extra mile and if someone doesn’t know something but only senses that there is a problem then that leave room for error. Such as having to search and try different things to determine what is wrong and to the one that is not forthcoming it can seem that the others actions are something they are not. I just want to love and understand. I’m not a choker or someone that wants to be choked. But I do try to be soft and passionate.

  300.  #300Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    prplprsn: Ok – heres the deal. You guys are exclusive right? Or not? I cant seem to remember, I’m sorry.

    If you are exclusive its different than not.

    My question is – why do you need to know if he is going out of town? Now, I told GS that if he was going to come over, I needed to know by 8 or 9 because that was my schedule that was affected. He complied (when he used to come over…….)

    Anyway – my question is – why do you need to know when he is out of town – does it affect your schedule? I’m just confused….

  301.  #301April Rose on July 23, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    I feel icky and angry reading “we women do this, we women do that…”

    Liquid Light I feel triggered. I don’t want to be lumped in with a generalised ‘we’. It feels so very unsafe to me.

    I would much prefer to read “I feel….”

    I want to feel each woman as she writes. I don’t want to know her opinions. I feel turned off by opinions, particularly those which include me in sweeping statements.

  302.  #302prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Elsie – Yes we are in an exclusive committed relationship. Going on 2 yrs now. I guess due to the length of time that we have been together I see no reason to not be open with each other about what we’re doing/going. And the fact that tuesday eves are usually our evening together during the week. Something he started a few months ago so that we could have more time together. He says that he meant to tell me before I left his house sunday eve. Well…he texted me last night and he was already in Michigan and said nothing about it then either. I guess I just feel that out of respect to me he could have let me know. After 2 yrs together I feel kinda left out of his life sometimes.

  303.  #303prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    And he just told me that he was texting me during the drive up there last night. It was helping to keep him awake. I guess I just don’t understand why he wouldn’t mention it. I’m always open with him about things going on in my life. I can understand not being so open in the beginning. But after 2 yrs. Isn’t that how relationships are supposed to be? Open?

  304.  #304April Rose on July 23, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    I feel so much more at ease in my skin when I am actively looking for the good-feeling things to focus on.

    I only looked at Byron Katie’s webpage once, and yet I think I got the picture.

    Rori talks in her e-book about tracking beliefs that make us feel bad.
    The beliefs are causing the bad feelings.

    Examples might be “I am not lovable”, or “he doesn’t care enough about me”.

    Byron Katie might ask “is it true? Can you know 100% that belief is true? How would you feel if it was not true?”

    People in her interviews said they felt peaceful if they allowed that it was not true.

    I feel excited to root out my subconscious beliefs and ask “Is this really true?”

  305.  #305Zia on July 23, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Elsie…. the fairytale is in your head 😉 what you have is NOW. you are not in an exclusive, committed relationship. you and he MAY get there some time in the future…. but what is now is now.

  306.  #306Zia on July 23, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    I really identified my own vision of a fairytale, happily ever after, as one of my limiting beliefs…

  307.  #307Zia on July 23, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    I really feel so much better identifying some of my relationships as purposeful. My ideal of happily ever after meant I felt like a failure when each relationship ended. But it really does feel so much better to view them as lessons, and works with what Rori teaches about being curious going forward – why is this man here? What does he have to show/teach me? He may be my life partner, he may not, and that’s ok!

  308.  #308Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    “Anyway – I’m still a bit fussy about the thing. I guess it makes me feel like if I was the prize that he wouldnt even want to go on there anymore. Thats how the fairy tale story works…..right?!”

    You are a prize Elsie. For the man who gives you the relationship that you want.

    I feel triggered by the words “fairy tale”. lol…. I was just thinking about this earlier. I don’t believe in a fairy tale anymore. I feel so much more stable believing in something that feels real, and imperfect, and still loving and fun.

    CollegeCD is circular dating.


  309.  #309April Rose on July 23, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    I feel more peaceful since I talked with WM about our ‘energy flow’. (it’s reversed – flowing from the woman to the man)

    I’d felt afraid to bring it up for ages. I judged it as ‘explainy’. And then I found a way to include feeling messages; how I felt so often disconnected because I couldn’t feel the energy flowing from him to me.

    He listened and discussed it with me in a way that felt surprising to me. I felt a sense of understanding and nurturing coming from him that was completely unexpected.

  310.  #310miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    I think I am just afraid someone will steal them away from me

  311.  #311Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    @Prplpsn: Oh I remember now. Well, My personal opinion/thought is that there is some reason that he is not telling you this. I think I would maybe visit with him about it in a nonconfrontational way. It would feel like he is intentionally hiding something from me that he knows is important.. Odd for sure – thats my take on it.

    @Zia – Yup. You are right. We are not exclusive.

    @WildGeranium – Yes, I know fairy tales are silly.

    But in my head (dark and scary place, I know LOL) I feel like he would just remember me after 20 years and we would be … I dont know. I’m so silly. LOL.

  312.  #312Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    I am proud of me and CollegeCD.

    I didnt answer his text last night bc I thought it was too late – boundary. I didnt even have to say anything. He has ALREADY texted me tonight and we are chatting a bit. 🙂

    Also, I am very proud that I got off of so I am not triggered by seeing him on there. Yay. Go me.

    He is asking about me working out – and I told him that I work out on my lunch hours, and I ran 3 miles today. That felt great – that I am living my life out here doing my own thing, and not just sitting around waiting for a text/phone call etc. Lunch date, etc. from him. 🙂 Love it.

  313.  #313Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    well I don’t think its that helpful to be an enabler when someone isn’t in a healthy relationship. I enjoy coming here to read the blog esp when someone writes something positive and is having success applying the tools or whatever in their relationship. I try to be positive and reinforce that and give positive feedback. But I rarely get that back here even when I post something positive as I did earlier…its just a big blank nothing and then the endless stories of frustration and struggle get so much play here. Its depressing to be honest. I don’t get it. Let’s reinforce the positive more, not the negative. That seems to happen here a lot and then we wonder why our lives are so sucky. Sigh.

  314.  #314Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm


    You’ve been with him for 2 years…. So, is this behavior something completely new? I’m gathering that it is?
    In the past he has been more open about his schedule? And, just recently, he is not mentioning that he is going out of town (or, with the previous trip, being very wishy-washy on when he’ll be back)?

    In that situation I’d just mention it to him (after he is back) and just ask if there is anything you should know. This would be a perfect case for feeling messages and keeping it simple. Not making a big deal, just “I feel x….can you help with that?” Actually, my first instinct would be to tease him about it (what, is he on the run??)–but that is just me.

    I can think of so many reasons why he is not telling you.

    When I was with a man who had children from a prior marriage, he tended to compartmentalize the two parts of his life so they didn’t overlap. This was before we lived together. I think he thought that after several years of dating that I might be starting to expect that I’d be included in family things. So, he was evasive about stuff. Or would “forget” to tell me about a commitment until the day before. I think some of it was unconscious.


  315.  #315Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    @Liquid Light -I’m sorry you didnt feel heard that you posted something postive!!!!

    I know that when I went through everything I have gone through the bad times…the good times…..I get a lot of help through my frustration and struggle….

    BUT!!! then there are times that are great – like last Friday or many times with GS, and I get a lot of positive wonderful uplifting heartfelt feedback too.

    I”m sorry that you didnt feel it.

    And for the record – I dont think my life is sucky. 🙂 LOL. !!!!! 🙂

  316.  #316prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    I think I will send him a text back now and say “Nothing was mentioned last night either. I’m feeling disconnected.” Thoughts?

  317.  #317miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    I’m glad the exercise is going good for you. Keep up the good work. Proud of you.

  318.  #318Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Elsie – you’re not silly for feeling the way you feel! but I just want to point out what we spoke about previously about getting so involved in “the story”… use this to really identify what is going on, if that’s what you want. these men are here for a reason. it’s all about YOU! and it’s wonderful to learn through them! x

  319.  #319Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    “Hmm … I’m feeling frustrated that I didn’t know we wouldn’t be having our Tuesday get-together … I feel left out when someone I’m close to doesn’t tell me their out-of-town plans …”

  320.  #320prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Wildgeranium – This actually isn’t new. But after I had a discussion with him about it a few months ago he seemed to understand. And the next couple of out-of-town events he had let me know about ahead of time. Now he seems to be slipping back to not telling me. And, yes, I do feel like he is compartmentalizing the two parts of his life. I think I just feel like after 2 yrs that I should be included a little more then I am. Does that make sense? I do spend time around his family and his kids. Not quite as much as I would like, but I do.

  321.  #321miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    I can’t seem to get away from the house tonight. And I want to go to lunch tomorrow but I can’t get out for my car is broken. Wonder if TT can stop after work tomorrow by the lawyers office. Would love to make a plate forget and child

  322.  #322Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Elsie, Thanks for your comment. I am glad that you are enjoying yourself so much and having so much fun cd’ing. It is so inspiring to see the change in you and how quickly its been happening. Happy for you! 🙂

  323.  #323Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:07 pm


    Yes, Elsie, major kudos for recognizing and stopping the thing. Truly 🙂

    I used to be quite the little cyber-stalker with my boyfriends. A little mobile phone detective. (don’t judge sirens….)

    At some point I realized how unhappy it was making me. And, I was finding stuff that bothered me, but I couldn’t do anything about it because I was snooping… So, I just stopped.

    Definitely the best way to go!

    I do feel curious…GS called you? You think it was a personal call, but during work hours? Why can’t that man just figure it out and call you at night or on the weekend….jeeze….


  324.  #324prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Am I just being crazy? Overthinking? If I were going out of town it would be something that came up in general conversation with him. I’m very open with him. I want to share things with him. I would hope that he would want to do the same with me. I guess thats why I feel “left out” sometimes.

  325.  #325Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    LL, I hear you feeling frustrated about what you see as negative talk here …

    I feel disconnected when anyone uses labels like “enabler” or tells me what is or is not a “healthy relationship.” What is a healthy relationship for me might not feel good to someone else. It doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

    I’m not here for positive thinking. I had plenty of positive thinking in my life that didn’t help me at all. I am here to embrace my wholeness which includes the light and the dark. I celebrate the joy and I sink into the grief, and all of that is me. I feel tired of being told that parts of myself are not okay. I am here to embrace all of it. I breathe a big sigh of relief when all parts of me – even the dark ugly “depressing” parts – can be seen and heard and loved. To me, that does feel uplifting.

    I hear that you are having a different experience with it.

  326.  #326Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    “Nothing was mentioned last night” hmmm. that makes him “wrong”.
    maybe just try feeling messages.
    I feel disconnected
    maybe go deeper underneath the disconnection…
    I feel unimportant?

    ..I need a thesaurus…


  327.  #327Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    I can see how there could be situations that a woman lets dominance turn into abuse, it’s just not every woman. And how are we going to know the difference except by being in touch with our feelings?

    Personally I have noticed that I no longer feel attracted to that kind of “rough” touch by men, which may be because I’m more in touch with my feelings. I don’t know. I feel more open to your perspective if I’m not being labeled as an “enabler” and so forth, which feels very disconnecting to me.

  328.  #328Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    @prplprsn: My thought is to do this in person. If this is your boundary, then its your boundary. No one can say if that is wrong or right. A text can be ignored, and then you will feel worse. Or it can be taken the wrong way. I would wait – plus that will give you time to marinate in how you really feel.

    @Wildgeranium – Thank you – I feel really good about it – I still wonder if he is on there, but dont have a way to find out now. 🙂

    And yes, GS called yesterday during work hours – he is out of town on business, but only now calls during work hours apparently LOL. I talked to him yesterday because it was a work related question, but then we got cut off. He asked how my weekend was. I just said it was great (because it was!!!!) and then said nothing else. Today I know it was personal because if it was work related he would have texted me the work question. He just cant figure it out – thats the problem I dont think that he is capable of what I need – at least not now – its similar to Mercedes story except I would be bewildered and baffled if mine ended up like hers – I just dont see him changing.

    @Zia – haha – yes, I get caught up in the story. I think im a romantic silly girl at heart that has stupid dreams and ideas of how things go – which is why it took so long for me to end my marriage. Thank you for pointing this out because I really do want to change that – it feels so much better like when I let go of the story with GS……

    @LIquid LIght – I’m so glad you took my comment in a good way. Yes, for right now I’m doing good. That could change at any moment!!! LOL I’m a roller coaster!!!

    By the way, after he texted me many questions and I answered about my running/gym time etc. I was suprised he didnt ask anything else about lunch. CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.

    This is how I know I’m growing and not rowing the boat. Before, I would have texted that I can skip another workout if he wants to go have lunch etc. Now, I am not rowing the boat. He knows I’ve skipped workouts obviously now to be with him at lunch – if he wants to eat lunch with me, all he has to do is ask.

    Clearly he is still connecting with me. But wow I really notice how I want to control –

    When is he going to text?
    Why is he on
    When is he oging to tell me his schedule?
    When is he going to ask me to lunch?
    Is he going to ask me to lunch?
    Is he going to ask me out again?
    Is he going to ask me out this weekend?
    Do I need to start thinking about plans for child care this weekend if he asks me out?

    Wow – exhausting.

    I see that part of me wayyyyyyy far in the distance. But that part of me is tired and arms hurt from rowing a boat. I’m so glad I’m kicked back with this beer getting my tan on. THAT girl sounds exhausted. 🙂

  329.  #329Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    “I’m not here for positive thinking. I had plenty of positive thinking in my life that didn’t help me at all. I am here to embrace my wholeness which includes the light and the dark. I celebrate the joy and I sink into the grief, and all of that is me. I feel tired of being told that parts of myself are not okay. I am here to embrace all of it. I breathe a big sigh of relief when all parts of me – even the dark ugly “depressing” parts – can be seen and heard and loved. To me, that does feel uplifting.”

    Erika, this feels so strong and healthy. I love it…


  330.  #330Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    322: I’m a cyber stalker too. I had to actually make a counter on my whiteboard as to how many days without looking at my ex’s fb I’ve gone. My aim is 40 days. I also had to install an app on my phone to block his texts, and set time limits as to how often I check to see if he’s texted me. I’m in a good place now but I still need these tools… old habits!

  331.  #331Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Thanks Wildgeranium.

    I also want to share that I shared myself today very authentically with someone some very “forbidden” parts of myself … I’m not going to write it here, and I’m sure all conventional wisdom would say not to do it … before I shared it, I felt anxiety …

    Since I shared it, all of me, without censoring, without trying to “protect” the other person from it …

    I feel a deep feeling of peace … a deep deep deep feeling of peace … that unexpressed part of me was really, really tired of being unexpressed and shoved down … she feels much more quiet and heard now.

  332.  #332Liquid Light on July 23, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Erika, you are right, I try not to give a lot of voice and energy to the negative. I believe that what you think about and speak about will just come back to you so I really try not to put out a lot of negativity. But to be honest, I tend to think in a negative, fatalistic way (its kinda the natural default for me) so I’m trying to retrain myself, and sometimes I’m even successful. For instance, not to toot my own horn, but my life is actually pretty awesome right now. I’m out of what I would label an abusive (or at least not healthy) relationship and am moving on. I’ve got a great job that pays me well, I am doing my art and actively showing it and proud of that, and my relationships with most of my family and friends (the ones that I want to invest in anyway) are improving and deepening in amazing ways. Now why should I feel ashamed of writing that here and not expect to get positive reinforcement? WEll, I don’t based on what I’ve experienced here but there you have it. Yes that’s my opinion but that’s what it feels like here, and honestly out in the world a lot. Many women can’t be positive about another woman’s success because she doesn’t feel good about herself. Tired of that. I’d rather be around women that can give positive feedback and reinforcement like I can give to them! Now that’s likely coming from a woman who feels good about herself and there ain’t nothing wrong w ith that!!!

  333.  #333Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    “By the way, after he texted me many questions and I answered about my running/gym time etc. I was suprised he didnt ask anything else about lunch. CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.”

    I think this is a Mars/Venus thing. On Venus we gather info then act right away. We’re always gathering info, prioritizing, accomplishing at the same time.
    Martians gather info and then take it back to central command with the other info and then they make decisions and strategize. And then, eventually, they will reveal their plan to you (or, ask you on another date).

    This is excellent. He said he would row the boat. And, he is gathering all the information that he needs in order to do that. Perfect.

  334.  #334miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Feeling uplifted and encouraged when I have thoughts of being together with JP (aka TT) all the time wanting to show what they bring to my life to make me happy. And then I feel overwhelmed and gloomy when I think of not having them. So wonderful JP is and fragile and caring. I want to show them im better and not bad. I love them so completely and yet I can’t see them or hear their voice except on the 4th ring of a voicemail. Makes me feel so empty inside. Will it ever be line it was before , can I ever hold them again. I miss it I miss it so much..

  335.  #335Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    LL, that sounds wonderful, everything in your life that has turned around. I celebrate that with you 🙂

    I also can relate to what you’re saying about the “attraction” many people seem to have to negative. I feel this frustration sometimes as a blogger. If I’m writing about something I’m upset about, sometimes I get lots and lots of comments and attention. If I’m quietly being happy, sometimes that seems to attract no attention at all … and it can feel quite frustrating. Seeing people “click” on links that go to media drama, for example, instead of learning tools like what Rori teaches, and like what I teach, that actually make their lives better … I get it …

    And … I feel comfortable here sinking into negative feelings without “sympathizing” or participating in drama. I also feel that working with my negative feelings and having some very honest “negative” conversations with people has dramatically improved my relationships also, and my health, and everything else …

    So … I feel comfortable having your voice here and I also embrace the other voices here, and I like practicing with how I can “be” with the negative feelings without getting pulled into the patterns or falling into “sympathy.” For me, that’s great practice for all areas of life. Does that resonate with you?

  336.  #336Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:36 pm


    Zia 🙂 LOL like one of those “xx days without a workplace injury” signs…I love it.

    I’m so lucky with my ex (7 year guy)–the very first thing he did (literally, before we even had a blow up) when I discovered he was having an affair was to block me on Facebook. What a guy right? 2+ years later I’m still blocked. And, I’m SO glad. Best thing he did for me!


  337.  #337Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    @Wildgeranium – LOL. He is now a martian. Thats about right – because all acts of men are alien to me. LOL – Ok – I’m cracking myself up way too much at that. 🙂

    Yes. You are absolutely right. Last week, he said – he wanted to go out with me again. He would let me know his schedule. Then 3 days later (after no texts) he said – how about Friday? He was gathering the information and then going back to central command. LOL

    He better row this boat. If he doesnt then it ain’t going anywhere. I promise you that. He can just step right on out to make room for another.

    Come in my room.
    Leave my room.
    One request. Dont stand in the door. 🙂

  338.  #338Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I did read your post earlier and felt excited for you. Sorry it got lost in the fray….

    I’m in CA too, and CW is in the PNW.


  339.  #339Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    LOL – I can totally picture that sign….

    It has been xxxx days since I have checked or facebook.


    Its almost like an AA meeting.

    Hello my name is Elsie, and I’m a facebookholic. Its been 10 days since I last checked my ex’s FB page. LOL

  340.  #340Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    335: haha my ex blocked me too!!! then he unblocked me and i was back to stalking… and he had so much stuff open and public. i just couldn’t help myself. i’d feel BAD every time i went to his page but i just couldn’t help myself!! i feel crazy just admitting it haha I LOVE MY CRAZY

  341.  #341prplpsn28 on July 23, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    It’s been an hour and a half since his last text. I have not responded. I’m sure my non-response has him thinking that I’m upset. Cuz he knows how I feel about this. I don’t want to communicate right now while I’m feeling frustrated. I’m trying really hard to TRUST (as Dominique so often talks about) but I’m having a really hard time with it. Bleh!

  342.  #342Zia on July 23, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    338: Hahah I know!! I just love those parts of me and accept them and admit that if that’s what I have to do to move forward then by golly I’ll do it. And having it up on my board means I can see it. Last time I got to 5 days and I felt bad when I had to reset the timer to 0. So now each day I up the number I feel good, and I remember how bad I felt when I had to reset it to 0 and that in itself allows me to bring myself back to the present moment and focus on what’s going on in my life right now. I feel embarrassed to admit it but I even have had to set myself the task of “do not check the blocked texts archive until Friday” to stop myself from checking every day to see if he’s texted. It is SUCH a habit thing… the other parts of me are happy and feeling content!

  343.  #343Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    @prplprsn: Maybe he doesnt think anything about you not texting him back – you dont know.

    But……he probably knows that its a deal for you. Plus it sounds like Tuesdays are your night to get together with him.

    If you dont feel like texting then dont. Do what you feel is right…

  344.  #344Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    You guys want me to CD? FINE.

    I got a new bite. 🙂 Lets call him SquirrelCD. He is way too young for me – but wow – a hottie.

    Hes got his text on with me tonight. 🙂

    Are you sirens happy now?

  345.  #345Zia on July 23, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Elsie – YES hahahahah go you!!!!

  346.  #346Zia on July 23, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    I’m living vicariously through all you saucy cd’ing sirens….. I honestly haven’t had any bites!

  347.  #347miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    What is this setting the timer thing back. I don’t think I know about that. Can someone elaborate. Thanks 🙂

  348.  #348Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.

    Why would you though?

  349.  #349Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 7:13 pm


    I am texting BOTH CollegeCD and SquirrelCD at the same time. LOL.

    By the way – YOU WERE RIGHT –

    CollegeCD just texted me that he has his kids Thurs. Fri and Sat. – he was gathering information at the alien home base. LOL

    Ok – now, can I suggest Sunday? I know he wont suggest it because he thinks its not an option for me – so can I suggest it?

  350.  #350Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    He actually texted

    I have the kids Thurs Fri and Sat. 🙁

    With a SAD FACE!!!!

    Can I write “Why the sad face?”

    ….even though I am assuming its because we cant get together????

    Help! Quick!!!!

  351.  #351Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    The Love Seeker

    The love seeker and the love giver
    live in different worlds.

    The love seeker doesn’t know how to love.
    She is so concerned with how much she is getting,
    she doesn’t realize she isn’t giving love at all.

    Forever counting and measuring,
    she goes into her head and closes down her heart.

    Yet until she offers love, she will be miserable.
    Until she gives without expectation of return,
    the love that comes back to her will never seem to be enough.

    –paul ferrini

  352.  #352Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    The alien home base….lol

    Tell him to have fun with his kids! You’ll be getting your tan on….(probably don’t say that)


  353.  #353miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    What about the timer question,

  354.  #354Elsie on July 23, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    OK – I KNOW he is saying this because its obvious he wants to go out with me…..

    I dont want to look like an idiot like I missed that, etc.

    Can I just type “Wait….why the sad face?”

  355.  #355Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Elsie I thought you had decided not to text because it was late?

  356.  #356Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 7:31 pm


    Yes. In circular dating you are not supposed to switch around your schedule to accomodate the man or men.

    I guess changing your priorities or accomodating his schedule is the equivalent of rowing?

  357.  #357Femininewoman on July 23, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    miranda sorry for some reason I am not connecting with .your train of thought

  358.  #358miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    think I’m getting confused again. I’m dipsy at times. There was a comment about setting the timer back to 0 when he tried to contact. I didn’t know about this concept and I am really trying to understand things. I would love for my relationship to work so I’m just wondering if there is something I need to be aware of that I’m not so I can do things right

  359.  #359Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    I dunno Wildgeranium … the first year I had my blog, I gave a lot with no expectation of return … and I sure was pissed when I wanted to quit my job and nobody was giving back to me financially … for me, it’s about knowing I deserve the best and expressingly myself clearly instead of “giving to get” … having no expectations to me has always felt kinda impractical and I’ve definitely seen men use this kind of thinking to try to get from me for free …

    Then supposedly “Felt Unsafe” Guy was all about service … and really that was a bunch of baloney … he was giving to get … and it felt really yucky …

    I’d really rather live in a world where people are honestly in touch with their needs and expressingly what they are giving and what they’d like in return openly and honestly …

  360.  #360Zia on July 23, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    ok so
    the gleeful feeling im having with regards to my situation with my ex… when i sink into that i realise it’s because i still harbour some unresolved resentment over the breakup. time to really explore this and let the last of the resentment go. i feel that once it’s all gone, lesson learned, we’ll be untethered. it feels good to be aware and willing to explore.

  361.  #361Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Oh Miranda, I understand your question now…

    We were making a joke about how we cyber-stalk men (looking at ex-s facebook pages, etc.) so in an effort to break the habit we have a unofficial timer. Let’s say we reach 5 days without looking at his facebook, and then we look. Then we have to “reset the timer”.

    This is not an official Rori Raye tool. At least, not yet!


  362.  #362Wildgeranium on July 23, 2013 at 7:52 pm



    do you have Rori’s e-book Have The Relationship You Want? That is the best place to start. Many tools are explained there.
    I refer to it again and again.


  363.  #363Zia on July 23, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Oh miranda sorry that was me – explaining how i deal with moving forward from my ex.

  364.  #364miranda faith on July 23, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    Iok thank you. I was thinking it was about him not calling or texting and when he does the silent no contact timer starts over or gets more time added

  365.  #365Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 8:19 pm


    I’m smiling reading your posts tonight… I feel proud of you too! You know, the guy *might* have been checking match to see if *you* had been on there. (You HAD!) Who knows? If you’re going to tell yourselves stories about it, you might as well make them feel-good ones. 🙂 (Although *no* stories is great too!)

    ~ Melanie

  366.  #366Melanie Murphy Myer on July 23, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    The interesting thing about dominance and submission, is that sex by its very nature involves at least a small measure of that. The extent of it will vary from person to person and couple to couple. That’s why trust is so important (to trust *ourselves*, at the very least).

  367.  #367Zia on July 23, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    I feel so calm, and more collected and centered dealing with these issues. I feel my worry and irritation just drifting away. Aaaaaaah, release!

  368.  #368Erika Awakening on July 23, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    Zia, I was noticing the blog got really quiet, and I also am feeling so calm and peaceful … was wondering if everyone is feeling it 🙂

    These days of doing nothing just kind of melt into each other now … it kinda feels timeless …

  369.  #369Veronica on July 24, 2013 at 12:17 am

    I went ice-skating for the first time yesterday and it was such a magical experience for me. It was perfect. I learned to trust myself so much and was kind of awed at how much I could trust myself. There was so much me in the experience and that felt so amazing! Started off very wobbly and by the end I could skate by the barrier for long stretches without clinging for dear life. It was such an inward experience and the people there were so pleasant, so benevolent. I knew that there would be a high probability of falling but when I eventually fell I felt like yes! I am now no longer afraid of falling. But when I fell suddenly there was this man to help me, like instantly, he checked that my skates were properly fitted and gave me some tips on how to skate better – and in such a caring way – wow I loved that, it was magical and I felt such appreciation for this man who was doing his manly thing – — yay! And I had no expectation, there was no need.

    Also, I’m slowly able to think back on BM’s expressions of love. The pain of possibly being duped or of unwittingly attracting a man who is bad for me has diminished enough for me to explore. Also getting stuck in hoping that we could be together again diminishes and instead I can feel love again in me. I love how he came to me straight away to comfort me when I broke down into tears in his presence – I could tell him my fears and he was there. I love and receive how we felt free to try many different things sexually and his attention of me during sex. I love and receive how he cherished my touching of him – that felt wonderful.

    And now there’s this flood of good feeling. and relief.

  370.  #370ruth on July 24, 2013 at 3:26 am


    Interesting about the respect

    yes maybe
    At work I am very much in boy mode, have to get things done , info put across etc to help my patients be as well as the y can be

    I kind of have it in my head that it should be different in relationship-that I can be*myself*
    I cant always do that at work, and neither should I
    But in relationship?

    Stuff to think about

  371.  #371ruth on July 24, 2013 at 3:27 am

    Lisa you sound better today

    Hugs to you

  372.  #372Indigo on July 24, 2013 at 3:44 am

    Miranda faith,

    I am very concerned about you with this guy. Your words to him are gentle and beautiful, yet have an extremely obsessive quality to them. I am sorry if this triggers you, but as lovely as these ideas are, they would turn me off if expressed to me, and I’m a woman. There are very few men who can take this level of intensity in words, it would push most away.


  373.  #373April Rose on July 24, 2013 at 3:53 am


    I have read back over your postings and I can see you felt good about something yet it wasn’t clear to me exactly what that was.
    Have you got a new date?
    I would love to hear you write more poetry about this good feeling.

  374.  #374Linda on July 24, 2013 at 6:08 am

    I have been thinking and feeling my way thru the boundries I have in my life.

    Some have fuzzy soft edges some have hard corners. Life is affording me plenty of opportunity to test my ability and resolve to stand by them right now. Of course, hind sight is my best teacher.

  375.  #375Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Lisa I hope you are okay.

  376.  #376Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 8:41 am

    WildG and Erika

    Thanks for your words of support, I appreciate it!


    It was an email from someone that I knew long ago, an old friend who is a cute, nice and interesting man! I feel excited about hearing from him (I thought he dropped it a while ago) and for the first time in 6 months, I feel the thrill and excitement of a potential new romantic interest. I really didn’t know if I was capable of feeling that again so it was a nice surprise! 🙂

  377.  #377seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 9:00 am

    I was feeling a bit sad the other day and set myself a goal to FEEL it and then release it………………. easy peasy now btw…………….. radio on and dancing around the room and then…………………. a love song came on………. felt the little bit of ” I want a man to sing this to me” feeling…………….. Know what I did? hahahaahaha! I stood in the mirror and sang it to myself! Really got into and sang my heart out at the top of my lungs! I cried and it was so beautiful to watch myself go through all the feelings and not look away and kept on singing and loving ME! It felt very sweet and cherishing to do that for myself. I got ipod out and played songs that I used to cry at, feel the lack…………… Now I sing the love songs to myself. Stevie Wonder’s ‘Isn’t She Lovely?’…………….. Amazing when you sing it to yourself and look in the mirror and MEAN IT to yourself…………. although I do love singing that to my Little Siren.

    I feel excited to be on Earth this day!!!!! 🙂

  378.  #378Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Been away for a couple of days and I’m not even close to catching up but…

    Elsie…I’m confused (although there is a very good chance I missed something because I’ve been scanning trying to take in most of what has happened so please bear with me here). You are upset that you saw CollegeCD on match because, in your eyes, if he loved the date on Friday, he would not be there. You say you loved the date on Friday. But then you went on That doesn’t make any sense to me. You can love the date on Friday and go on and it’s nothing but he can’t do the same? Sorry…I’m very confused by that.

    I really think you need to be circular dating. And I don’t mean just texting, I mean dating. Lots of men. Really. 🙂

    You know I love you girl and if I’m missing something here, please accept my apology in advance. I’m just not seeing anything other than a double standard with what you expect from a man vs what you are able to do yourself…

    Much Love,

  379.  #379Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 9:24 am

    When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.

    — Wayne Dyer

  380.  #380Ambermae on July 24, 2013 at 9:41 am

    I need your help, I’ve been dating this guy for a month now and I like him a lot and he tells me he feels the same about me but he never calls even when he promises to and he only wants to see me on the weekends I’ve tried talking to him about it but that didnt seem to work. I’m at the point now where I stopped worrying about it so much and think he will call when he wants to talk to me but it still gets to me because I like him a lot and want to try to have a better relationship with him I’m just not sure what to do or how to do that.

  381.  #381seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 9:42 am

    FW a couple of times you have posted the question,’ What do you want in a relationship?’………… sometimes differently worded but the same……………. This question has been floating in my mind. What do I want? How? What does it look like???……………………. It feels really huge. I sometimes know what it looks like, it changes though. Sometimes I feel so good to be single…………… I haven’t been single as an adult before. I got married at 24 and that age sounds mature enough, but looking back……………………….. I wasn’t quite rounded out enough, mature enough. I am enjoying this time right now. I enjoy being with my daughter and seeing, making friends. I feel not alone. I feel healing myself and being comfortable in my skin again. I feel kind of selfish of myself………………….. only that’s a negative word and it’s not that word …………it’s a feeling of Lookie me, aren’t I lovely??? OMG! I forgot and look what I found! I missed you! I don’t want to share me yet……………….. a little longer in the cocoon? More to learn?…………..

    Final answer…….. I don’t know what I want in a relationship or if I even want one right now. That can change on dime though………………..

  382.  #382Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Living my yoga today:

    We all need the same things: safety, love, respect, and laughter. How can you contribute to your own safety, love, respect, and laughter today? How can you help meet those needs in others?

    Much Love,

  383.  #383seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 9:56 am

    380 Mercedes………………………….. Nice to see you lady!

    Answer: I shall smile with my soul to all and lend a helping hand where ever it is needed…….. be it picking up a stray bit of trash on my path to helping a fellow traveler in need. And more smiling…… Smiling is my favorite:)

  384.  #384Rori Raye on July 24, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Ambermae, Welcome – and the solution to this (and to EVERYTHING “dating”) is Circular Dating. Read everything you can here, get the ebook Have The Relationship You Want over in the sidebar, and we’ll help you…Love, Rori

  385.  #385Erika Awakening on July 24, 2013 at 10:22 am

    There is sooooo much uncertainty in my life at the moment … and my guidance is consistently saying rest, meditate, take care of yourself, do nothing … and I still feel happy. How about that? 🙂

  386.  #386Indigo on July 24, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Yay Liquid Light!

    I’m so glad about your excitement that you felt a spark with someone new, or different!

    I love to celebrate the positive so I am with you on that one!


  387.  #387Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Seahorse: Nice to see you too! 🙂 Your plan for today sounds perfect! And to add to the cool factor…..I saw a police officer stop his own motorcycle on my lunch break today. He picked up a random piece of trash (soda bottle) and pulled into the gas station I was at. Threw it in a trash can. LOVE that!!

    Much Love,

  388.  #388Indigo on July 24, 2013 at 11:11 am

    Last night D gave me the most wonderful hug.

    It was the best hug he has possibly ever given me.

    This was after the day of being worried and anxious when he was sick and I didn’t hear from him the whole day.

    And I we were together last night and I went to him and said “I’ve waited a long time to do this” (well, it felt like a long time!) and he wrapped me in his arms, but all the way around, and held me to him, and there was a melting, in him, that I don’t think I’ve ever felt before, as if there were no barriers, no frontiers. As if he understood completely what I needed in that moment.

  389.  #389Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Thanks Indigo! I’m happy for you too – great hugs are the best!

  390.  #390Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Indigo: I love that! There’s no better feeling in the world than a melting hug when you need it the most! YAY you!!!

    Much Love,

  391.  #391Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 11:25 am

    a facebook friend posted this today on my wall and boy does it hit home…

    Abusive relationships are characterized by control games, violence, jealousy and withholding sex and emotional contact. An Emotionally abusive man is harder to pin-point and a skilled, abusive man can easily make you think you aren’t GOOD enough or that everything is YOUR fault. It is just as difficult to recover from emotional abuse as it is from physical abuse. Emotional abuse causes low self-esteem and depression. An abusive man may tell you he loves you or that he will change, so you won’t leave.

    Control—He is overly demanding and must be the center of your attention. He controls finances, the car, and the ACTIVITIES you partake in. Becomes angry if woman begins showing signs of independence or strength.

    3. Superiority—He is always right, has to win or be in charge. He always justifies his actions so he can be “right” by blaming you or others. A verbally abusive man will talk down to you or call you names in order to make himself feel better. The goal of an abusive man is to make you feel weak so they can feel powerful. Abusers are frequently insecure and this power makes them feel better about themselves.

    I’m just getting better at sensing it… and feeling so good about the fact that I listened to ME for once… and realized it felt off and bad… His other actions that were so kind and generous clouded my ability to see clearly.

    I’m feeling so much better now, and happy about me.. Circling dating and have 5 new prospects… flirting in the healthfood store today was easy with the dance stance… and open heart…

    I’ve learned and loved so much about me the past few days… it’s amazing… I feel like a new person! I love me…. and even the me that protects me b/c looking out to make sure I’m not in another toxic relationship…

    Love never ends… but staying when I feel control games going on… isn’t about loving..

    As @Dominique said, Love isn’t enough…

    I deserve a man that makes me feel good, and cherished not controlled and as if my feelings and needs don’t matter…

    Next time, if it happens again, I’ll be more on top of it and quicker, if the hand goes on my throat, get up and leave! No assuming it was harmless… and no tolerating it… or allowing it to be down played.

    I’m so happy I listened to me…


  392.  #392Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Just saying it. I’m nervous. Very, very nervous. Since we don’t know when or how long it will take for the yoga studio to really take off and be able to afford the rate I want for my life, I decided not to put my corporate career on hold just yet. I applied for a promotion today. I feel very unsettled in my tummy. Very. I will leave it up to G0D to determine what is best. I will. It’s not easy. Easier said than done at any rate. But I will. I will meditate and release this. This is out of my hands…no need for me to hold on to it. What is right will be.

    Much Love,

  393.  #393Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 11:27 am

    I wonder if I am nervous because I want it or because I don’t…

  394.  #394Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 11:30 am

    I’ve been praying and meditating and praying and meditating on this hoping to discover what it is I needed to do. I don’t really know if the answer came or not. All I know is I had until tomorrow morning at 8:00 to put my name in and I did it this afternoon…

  395.  #395Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 11:32 am


    I’m off the feed, to take a break from the posts…

    I’m doing much better! Loving my broken heart…

    Thanks so much for asking.. I feel loved!


    I can’t thank you enough for your kindness the other day! My heart filled up… <3


  396.  #396Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 11:36 am


  397.  #397Erika Awakening on July 24, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Mercedes, wow am I hearing similar from a lot of people right now. A lot of us are in these kind of “limbo” places of transition … feeling a little “white knuckley” lol … I hope the answer comes and brings you peace … and I hope your yoga studio (which sounds really exciting) gets going quickly … warmest wishes for happy outcomes in all areas 🙂

    A friend/collaborator and I just ordered up two miracles, and then we agreed that our guidance is to “do nothing” and she went to take a nap. Maybe it really needs to be “miracles all around, please …”

  398.  #398Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 11:48 am


    Please take good care of yourself, and pamper yourself, and get lots of rest. You are going to need to heal and that make take time, I know that it did for me. Give yourself as much time as you need, don’t try to rush it. (I did that and didn’t help.) It was very challenging for me to make sense of it all and be at peace with everything…and I’m still processing but doing much better overall.

    Anyway, I wish you the best going through the breakup and beyond…it sounds like you are doing great!

    Big hugs!!!!


  399.  #399Cool mama on July 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Wow, what girlfriend wisdom! I’d so live some of this. I found myself exactly where the book talks about. He has all the power and I’m waiting to see him the measly twice a week he has decided. After an obsessive four months which he says was all too much even though it was like Thr entirely
    At his instigation (to which I responded every time, I know). Feel like my heart is breaking but know I have lessons ti learn. Hope I
    Can join this conversation. I have to aPy the 8 week break idea and stop contacting him! Pls send me strength, I can’t stop crying and I’m seeing Him Friday night!

  400.  #400Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 12:25 pm


    One other thing that may be helpful, it has been for me but I just started doing this. I wish I had done this earlier but maybe I just wasn’t ready.

    Remind yourself of the above list that you posted over and over again. Because when you start to remember the good times, your mind will play tricks on you and you can easily fall back into missing him and wanting him back. Its at those times, that you must bring your mind back to the list and the specific things that happened that are examples of the above. It’s been a tough lesson for me and it took me a while to realize I was doing this so maybe this will save you some time and pain.

    Maybe this won’t happen to you, I hope it doesn’t, but in case that it does, I thought I’d mention it.

  401.  #401seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Mercedes- I love how you processed that. What will be will be. Just so. Peace be with you and keep on breathing. Much great good luck;)

  402.  #402seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Liquid Light- I hear ya sister! Keep on keeping on…………………… and SMILE!!! 🙂

  403.  #403seahorse on July 24, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Peace be with you Lisa. Breathing helps deep and down low…………………. Happy cding! ((((((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))))

  404.  #404elsie on July 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Mercedes…..I didnt have an actual
    Profile on….lol
    I admit i just used it to stalk. Lol

    He texted me back and we decided to meet up on sunday at my place for movie and dinner….. he is so.stinking sweet….and so attentive.

    I love that it was tues and he was giving me his schedule for the week. Lol

    Mercrdes…im not quite officially divorced yet. Its hard yo circular date…im trying!!!

    Oh….and GS totally notices me.pull.away. i dont story with him.ends like yours mercedes.

  405.  #405Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Thanks Seahorse, I’ve been smiling a bit more recently…I’m moving away from this very small, isolated town (for many reasons like career and to be closer to family, its just an added bonus that I’m also moving away from him). I think I’ll be smiling even more after my move on Friday! I’m getting really excited. Before it felt daunting and scary (and it still does a little) but mostly it feels exciting!

  406.  #406Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    And another reason I’m moving is to improve my love life!!! oh yeah, more options will be good!!! 🙂

  407.  #407Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Elsie: Oh…just stalking him??? Ok…that makes it all better for you to be on match and not him. Got it. 🙂 Just kidding…you have to be able to see how that sounds to me, right? haha!

    I understand that circular dating is hard and I won’t push it any further (or I’ll try not to) but please try to take a look at existing patterns in your love life and see if it gives you the results you want for you. Being on a couple of dates with a guy and stressing because he didn’t call/text one day (I think this was last week or something…maybe Monday???) and stalking him on match probably won’t get you a vibe and a feeling of security and confidence and happiness. I’m not trying to be mean here at all…just giving you something to look at or be aware of should negative feelings or neediness start to show up very early with a man. Does that make sense?

    And I don’t think your story ends like mine either. I think we both have our own stories. I don’t even know how mine ends. 😉 I just know I’m enjoying the ride I’m on right now…and that’s what I want for everyone else too!

    Much Love,

  408.  #408Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    So many things that Lisa posted about abusive men remind me of my ex. It just makes me sick, and makes me feel like crying all over again. This kind of behavior is insidious because just as it says:

    An Emotionally abusive man is harder to pin-point and a skilled, abusive man can easily make you think you aren’t GOOD enough or that everything is YOUR fault.

    This really hits the nail on the head. Ughh, so f***** sad that I didn’t see it earlier but like the article says, these kinds of men are very skilled at abusive behavior, the kind that can’t be proven.

    But I’ve just got to pick myself up, dust myself off and move on. And know that I will never let myself get involved with someone like that again. I learned the hard way, and it has been very, very hard, but I won’t let it happen again… Ugh

  409.  #409Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Mercedes you have the eye of a hawk 🙂

    Really great assessment there.

    I had wanted to say a few things but thought it best not to.

  410.  #410Mercedes on July 24, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    FW: 🙂 Just saying what I’m seeing/feeling/expecting to see….hoping I’m off base.

    Much Love,

  411.  #411Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 3:27 pm


    I just popped in to see a few posts.. I’ve been purposefully not …

    Yes, that is what I’ve been through also! and why I have a part of me that won’t allow me to get heavily involved with a man like that again.

    my recently ended relationship felt good sometimes but left me feeling down and crying lots too and I couldn’t pin point exactly why … but it was so subtle that it was digging at me inside like crazy.. hence my recent need to analyze why… I’m glad I did… now that I let go and are grieving… I remember the signs…

    and your right! my mind is already trying to remind me of the good times to make me miss him… I’m glad you reminded me…


  412.  #412Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Some people might like hand around the throat in sex and in my opinion that should be discussed and not just done… but that is me…

    and I have the intuition to know that when things have happened repeatedly.. that is sign for me to perk up and pay attention…


  413.  #413April Rose on July 24, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Watching the Toxic Men program, where Rori is talking about the hidden payoffs for being with a man who you consider to be mean/indifferent/or whatever his undesirable traits are:

    You get to be opposite to him, and BETTER than him.

    “Part of the reason that we choose a man who doesn’t live up to our standards is that we get to be better.
    This comes from a subconscious life-theme of I am inferior or second class or not good enough. So I am gonna hook up with a man that I’m gonna feel better than (on a really deep level).”

  414.  #414Melanie Murphy Myer on July 24, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Good quote from Toxic Men, April Rose. Thanks for posting it.

  415.  #415Elsie on July 24, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    @Mercedes – no, you were SPOT ON. I saw it before you said it which is why right when I noticed it I got straight off. I dont have anything on there anymore. Not a username not a password thank you very much. :)))))

    He and I are meeting on Sunday at my house for movies and probably dinner. So that should be very relaxing and totally fun. I’m excited. He said that he was very much looking forward to it. Its a nice change of pace that on Tues. evening he is giving me his schedle for the whole week – I never even asked for that LOL.

    GS texted me today to see what was up. Uhhh…..ok. Whatever. He can feel me pulling away. I’m sure he can. He’ll have to deal with it and either step up or not. My guess is he wont because he is incapable, but I cant be in fix it mode with any other man, no matter how much he says he loves me.

    I will try ciruclar dating. Let me get through the final paperwork Mercedes!!!!

    Oh – and Mercedes – what will be will be. I”m sure that G0d Has something wonderful in place for you!!!

  416.  #416BeLoved on July 24, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    April Rose – 411
    “You get to be opposite to him, and BETTER than him.

    “Part of the reason that we choose a man who doesn’t live up to our standards is that we get to be better.
    This comes from a subconscious life-theme of I am inferior or second class or not good enough. So I am gonna hook up with a man that I’m gonna feel better than (on a really deep level).”

    I totally noticed this with C.

    I especially notice this when I get online messages from men who seem “good”. I feel shakey and scared and not good enough, don’t feel like I have anything to offer, don’t feel like I measure up…I feel shivers of self-loathing for being a lowly admin assistant at my age, who can barely dress herself and I’m like…what am I doing thinking I can have a man? All the good ones are out of my league and I don’t want the yuck ones anymore.

    I feel a wave of prickly hot shame riding up the back of my neck and my face just typing this.
    A good man makes me want to go into the wrongness of me.

  417.  #417Erika Awakening on July 24, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    oh … I feel moved to tears right now … actually I’m gonna start bawling … time to record a video so this powerful moment doesn’t slip away …

  418.  #418BeLoved on July 24, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    I should say, the “thought” of a good man.


    Although, T is a good man, just not the one for me.
    Actually, my connection with him brought me right out of a spin today. I walked out and the guys were setting up to play dominoes and I felt so excluded, and sad that I didn’t feel welcome to play and I sat in my car and cried for a minute before something yanked me out of it and said, “T would never leave me guessing like this. I don’t want this. I have had at least a measure of love, with a man who will talk through anything and everything with me, and he would never leave me feeling shaky and unsure of where I stand. He’d never just stop talking to me or not want to work things out.”

    Knowing that I’ve had at least that, that at minimum is possible, that I know one man who lets me know where I stand with him and won’t leave me guessing and it’s always always always ok to call him, even if he has a girlfriend, because nothing shady is going on and anyone who knows him knows his feelings for me, for them, and knows where *they* stand with him, too.

    Thank goodness.

    compatible values.
    yes thank you.

  419.  #419Hana on July 24, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    I love this article. Beautiful Sirens, I have been away. Dealing with a lot of issues. Update:

    Amir came back to me on his own accord, even though at the time I was practicing the tools and doing “text your ex back”. We had a good several weeks of romance and lovely times. But, because I feel uncertain about things, and about my position in the relationship and I am kind of tired of all the feelings (probably due to some of my life situations and stress) it became too much for me, and I didn’t feel right about staying in the relationship, so today I told him that. And I broke our connection off. It took a lot of “balls” to do this, but the feeling and intuition that I had to leave this relationship was very strong. I need to work on myself and find the person who I will become, and who I need now.

    Ladies, I’m sharing because I feel like I need backup and strength to take me through what I fear may be at times “lapses” of judgment and second guessing what I carefully considered in regards to Amir and my relationship.

    Help and guide me through this time sweet ladies :/

    Thank you, I look forward to catching up 🙂

  420.  #420BeLoved on July 24, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    I still feel shame coming up…
    I chose juicy, sexy black women in sparkly, tight dresses, high heels, and attitudes as my ideal of beauty and ‘rightness’
    and I feel like a frumpy, dumpy, lumpy, pasty white woman who can never ever ever compare to that.
    I’m not all strong, good with my anger, commanding…able to command men’s respect like my imaginary ideal
    and wow do I beat the crap out of myself for that every day.
    It’s like..I don’t even want to dare to accept me and love me and embrace me the way I am because somewhere deep down I feel
    I am
    Feels like…
    sideways sidling away
    backing up

    I feel scared I’ll be one of those way obese people with bad hygiene in the “Lowered Expectations” SNL skit..
    I don’t want to be that ewwwwwwww
    I want someone better than me
    and I don’t feel like I can earn that or have that or am worthy of that
    I don’t know.
    wow this is making my head and neck burn like crazy

  421.  #421Elsie on July 24, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    @Hana – I’m proud of how strong you are being – if you know your decision is right for now then it is right for now. Who knows what the future will bring in your life – maybe him back – maybe someone else……I know its hard right now though for you….stay strong!!!

  422.  #422Liquid Light on July 24, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    yes, Lisa, it so subtle and so insidious that you question yourself constantly and no one believes you, and that makes you feel even more shaky. That’s why I wanted to say something because I’ve been through it and unless you’ve been involved with someone like this who is basically one big mind-f***, you just can never know how f’d up and crazy-making it is!

    Hang in there, girl! If you need a shoulder, you’ve got mine (virtually anyway) 😉

  423.  #423miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Feeling stronger about not being able to connect with the things I want. Doesn’t mean I still don’t cherrish them more everyday just I have to express that I feel how I do, and that I’m always wanting to learn more and all I can and that I’m always here. Feels bad to keep reaching out with calls and text that aren’t replied to, so I don’t want to seem obsessing, I never was I just felt confused and hurt and wanted answers why. That was my fault. I’m able to love without being understood, care without being acknowledged,and respect without being told. What ever can make someone happy is what make s them happy. How I feel doesn’t matter because, I’m still here being the understanding one and offering a way to feel better about this, but really it sux. I make mistakes sure… I also make potatoe soup. And i really from the bottom of my heart do want so much more out of this and to learn and adjust and consider and respect and protect and to cherrish and care. To give my all in every single breath to pour my soul out to satisfy the one that says ” you can love me as much as you want” i felt safe to do that and when i did i felt a change like i was strange or i was too much. What ever happened to ” your the best thing to ever happen to me” i know what happen to it. Nothing .. Because i know inside me that i loved with a pure heart and with true spirit. <3 thank you for the space on here ladies.

  424.  #424Elsie on July 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    Miranda –
    You wrote: To give my all in every single breath to pour my soul out to satisfy the one that says ” you can love me as much as you want” i felt safe to do that and when i did i felt a change like i was strange or i was too much. What ever happened to ” your the best thing to ever happen to me” i know what happen to it. Nothing .. Because i know inside me that i loved with a pure heart and with true spirit. <3 thank you for the space on here ladies.

    Wow. Very poetic. That moved me very much.

  425.  #425Erika Awakening on July 24, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    So I feel a little triggered by the “eight weeks no contact” thing … mostly because of all the Course in Miracles work that I do that is all about understanding that everything is now … and how we use time to separate rather than join …

    I decided to weave it into a video. Sometimes I open to “random” pages of ACIM and add whatever text opens to the video, and I did that today. When I tapped on this, this is the passage that opened:

    “I have conceived of time in such a way that I defeat my aim. If I elect to reach past time to timelessness, I must change my perception of what time is for. Time’s purpose cannot be to keep the past and future one. The only interval in which I can be saved from time is now.”

  426.  #426miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Thanks Elsie. Its just me trying to speak through my cloud. It isn’t me trying to make a difference its just what has been growing in my heart for the past several weeks continuing to seep out. Someone inspired me so much and I’m just sitting now reflecting, and pondering how to not fix my relationship, rather be thankful that i still know how to love and feel. I would love to hold and feel and kiss .. I loved the encouragement in their eyes and the willingness to accept me. But i can’t sit and be sickly inside. How would that help them… And so i say WA WA WA what would the animals be made out of? :'(:-):-D:'(:-):-D<3<3

  427.  #427Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    @Indigo ( I hope that is who posted it.. I lost the spot)
    “You are wonderful just the way you are!

    “The reason you are being held up to such a high standard is because you are on this path. I know it can feel frustrating at times because you think, I’m so wonderful, and I have so much to give! And you are, and you do! But once you start on the journey of self-awareness, there is no going back.

    Lucky, lucky you

    THANKS so much!!! for that.. and I agree

    YES! I do know that… I’ve been doing it for 20 years… it is insane at times… Hell at times, and even unbearable at times.. YES! and yet you are correct nothing I can do… once it is in motion…

    and I’m seeing triggers coming from all different directions…not just “M” and then dealing with my life, and lack of sleep and stresses that come up… it’s a lot on one’s plate… so being secure or not… when a person is over the top with stress, events, and triggers and all the emotions that go with the triggers, plus trying to work the tools and FEEL and process… I can’t do it all at times… because I’m one person… and it does get the best of me…


  428.  #428Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 6:19 pm


    Yes, now looking back I saw signs…

    but I wasn’t sugar coating them, I was waiting to see if they would go away or work themselves out…

    and yes, now I wished I had just walked away.. when that big gut feeling came around and yet I don’t b/c I had an amazing time with him and healed a lot… opened my heart up again and felt love… even if in the end.. it wasn’t healthy for me..

    I did have those gut feelings.. yes! for example:

    One night on a date which was the night after another date, he was tired and told me, I’m not going to be myself tonight b/c I’m tired.. but the issues came up like taking my food abruptly from my plate and correcting everything I said, and challenging everything I said… that was the first sign of having to be right all the time.. and that was on the 4th date….

    and then tossing me around during sex roughly – apologizing and then letting it go for awhile and then 2 mos later I’m told.. ” I like having you were I want you”… I again thought oh assume that it’s ok (safe)… but now I see it wasn’t.

    I was being patient and working the tools to see what would happen, but now am seeing that sometimes walking away is the best tool to use…

    Someone can be a good man or person and be giving and kind and yet still have un dealt with trauma that causes issues… and that makes it tougher… you never can tell if they will be able to work it out or not…


  429.  #429miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    @ Lisa…

    You said he likes having you where he wants you.
    like to know more on what that means? Thanks xoxox

  430.  #430Lisa on July 24, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    I do understand that everything is mirror, I’ve been doing The Work for over a decade… that’s my job to judge someone and then do the work on it and turn it around to myself… I know most of you don’t know that about me…I get it!

    I work on myself and about myself and turn it around to myself 100’s of times in a day…

    Yet, the other day, too much was coming to me from all different directions and too many triggers and it piled up on me and I couldn’t get one done before here comes another…. all the while trying to do work and take care of a child…

    It got the best of me… and when someone is going deeply down inside the crap that triggers us, we don’t deal with things the same way..our emotions are raw and we are coming from that place of wounds.. and it takes time and space..

    I realize though that when a post is directed at something I posted and it isn’t directed at me.. it feels sad to me.

    Can you please call me…… was what I posted

    and I read a post that said that feels controlling etc…

    I guess I feel that as a jab b/c I know it was me that posted it and yet, it wasn’t directed at me, and it wasn’t explained…

    I can’t be it all and do it all as well as you that have been doing it for years… that’s just the truth.. and I’m going to make mistakes.. and yes that might have sounded needy or whatever, not sure how it was controlling but that I guess it an opinion..

    I make mistakes! I do! I will make another one before the day is ended… and if a man can’t handle a “Can you please call me?”… after he sends me an e-mail that was a curt as what he sent me, then I’m questioning if I want to be with him… you see I love the tools, and I get them and I believe they work but at times it’s like I have to be super cautious and walk on egg shells around a man b/c of how fragile they seem to be. And yet the other day I felt like everything I was doing was being analyze also.

    It was a simple request not a demanding request like what he sent me…
    and yet now I see that I was cowering b/c of his harsh tone and demands..

    Elsie is right he did command me a lot – like a parent would a child… and that was his idea of leading..

    So, this work with Rori’s tools gets to be too much for me sometimes ( like the other day) when I feel like I’m walking on egg shells b/c men are so fragile that I have to watch every word I say.. I notice they don’t watch their words so much they expect us to accept them as they are and yet I feel as if I can’t, I have to watch everything I do around them… and also if I can’t just simply ask for a phone call in a polite way without having to analyze it… to death.. of whether it was controlling, needy or whatever…

    It feels like a double standard to me… It also feels like I can’t be myself..

    so, I guess my dilemma is how do I use the tools to not walk on eggshells and not have to analyze everything I say to a man to the point where I feel they are so fragile they can’t handle a simple polite request… b/c all that does is add stress to my life…


  431.  #431Melanie Murphy Myer on July 24, 2013 at 7:03 pm


    “Can you please call me?” feels fine to me. I would say that to a man (IF I liked talking on the phone, which I don’t. 🙂 )

    I don’t know what the issue was in the situation… The only thing I would be wary of would be if we were both wanting our own way (one wants to talk on the phone and one doesn’t) and we made the other one “wrong” or expected that the other person should/must give into what we wanted (a “power struggle”).

    It goes back to what Rori says about taking no for an answer. And then, if there are too many “no’s” in the relationship and we are feeling bad most of the time, we choose to leave the relationship because it’s not what we want.

    Does that help at all?

    ~ Melanie

  432.  #432Dominique on July 24, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Lisa – This doesn’t exactly apply to what’s going on with you, yet it might help you feel better.


  433.  #433Elsie on July 24, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    I am not an expert so I will defer to their excellent advice.

    I will say this. Rori, Dominique, CCarter, Queens Code, its all GOOD STUFF. But at the end of the day, you have to figure out who YOU are, and then make that the best possible version of you. I sometimes see on here, women who work so hard at these tools that they forget that they are just TOOLS and not THE END in and of itself.

    Mercedes and I both dont like to use the word feel every other word. I use it but not in every sentence. There are other women on here that use it all the time. I think its what is comfortable for you.

    These tools are here to help us understand OURSELVES and become the best WE can be.

    For example, I intensely dislike Byron Katies The Work. Yes, I have read it and learned all about it for a very long time. I INTENSELY do not like it. But there are people on here who love it and it helps them – so GREAT!!!!

    But at the end of the day, I truly believe what Dominique has said a million times, a realtionship should mostly be EASY. Its the work on ourselves that is sometimes hard. But if you have to constantly feel like you are putting a square peg in a round hole then……sigh. Its just hard work with no results.

    Thats just my opinion.

    And I am practicing what I preach.

    That little tiny stint of me being on for a couple of weeks and then stalking him last week felt horrible to me. I have NEVER done anything liek that before, and it felt icky. I”ll never do it again. 🙂

    I have no idea why he hasnt texted me tonight and seriously dont care. I have been on the internet, playing with kids, and CLEANING! 🙂 Woo hoo! Laundry folding here I come!!!!

    The point is I am living my life. Anyone that wants to join the ride can come join it (Its a pretty good ride with me – I”m fun to hang out with…. LOL) IN the meantime do whatever you want. You find someone else’s boat you want to row on – then row away. 🙂 I’m in a good place right now.

    I just think I”m in a good place because I”m not trying to be something I’m not anymore and not trying to work so hard with these tools to make myself someone that I”m not. They have helped me instead realize who I really am. 🙂 (I’m awesome by the way. LOL.)

  434.  #434miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    @lisa.. That resonates with me . I felt similar in my relationship. Always trying to be passive and apologetic because I felt that they took everything to heart. Even the silly joking things. Thanks for that post… XOxO

  435.  #435miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Which was just how I was looking at it…and not really how they were

  436.  #436Melanie Murphy Myer on July 24, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Great points, Elsie – it really is so important to stay true to ourselves even while we change through growing and learning.

    Along those same lines, just now I was taken by surprise by a comment left on one of my articles. A woman wrote that she scored very high on the anxious attachment quiz at the end of the article – and then added that she’s thankful her husband loves that about her! So often we hear that anxious behavior will push a man away – yet here’s one woman who evidently is true to herself in that respect, and it *doesn’t* push him away… it *works* for them in their relationship.

    And that brings to mind what Dominique often says: “You can’t say the wrong thing with the right man.”

    ~ Melanie

  437.  #437Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    Lisa I was the one who reacted to “can you please call me”. I apologize if my comments offended you. I What it did for me, reading it, was to paint all kinds of different pictures in a split second. One of child begging. So that felt yucky. Next it conjured up for me the picture of a powerless woman using a whiny voice to get a man to pity her. That felt controlling. The voice was whiny but the choice of words was kinda telling a man what to do and demanding. Maybe my mind just glossed over the please but I visualized the man hearing it and lashing out in resentment.

    Maybe I am too visual but that was what I saw. I also “heard” a tone of voice. And visualized body language. Maybe it triggered something I don’t like about myself. Maybe a memory? One thing I know is that it had me making an unconscious vow never to use that phrase again. I found myself trying to find other words to use because it felt for me like the person with the lower status in the relationship asking the person on the pedestal to please call.

    Maybe I am too dramatic.

  438.  #438Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Dominique did you mean to post a link?

  439.  #439Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Polite request – sometimes I saw forget polite because to me that is focused on the other person. I agree with Dominique who says bring it back to you.

    “I feel so shaken or like I have been slapped and would like to clarify some things so I don’t make assumptions”. When is a good time

    Please call me suggests to me you want to talk he doesn’t. So in unconsciously prioritizing his need above yours or maybe playing out the parent/child dynamic in the relationship the words spilled out. Thoughts/feelings/words/actions are driven by each other. Maybe asking “what am I feeling” before using those words might identify what is going on with me and eliminate the need to use those words. In this context.

  440.  #440Femininewoman on July 24, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Also for me the focus is not about pointing out mistakes. It is about shining a light on something that might be flying below the radar of consciousness.

  441.  #441miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    When’s a good time to call sounds good. Xoxo

  442.  #442prplpsn28 on July 24, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Haven’t heard from H at all today. Because we’ve talked about it in the past I know that he knows how I feel about it and I’m sure he realizes that my non response last night means that I’m disappointed. So now he is retreating, pulling away. That’s how he seems to handle conflict. Ugh. I will not initiate the contact. This is one of my boundaries. Keeping my days busy with my kids.

  443.  #443prplpsn28 on July 24, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    It’s just frustrating for me cuz we had such an awesome wknd. I spent the entire wknd at his place and even spent a little bit of time with his kids as well. We really connected and were really close. Things seem to be going really well in our relationship but for some reason this and the fb thing trigger me. I’m not sure why.

  444.  #444miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Its overwhelming to always ask myself why, so I do that less by telling myself that magic exist and true love is real that people need time to see what is real. And I am confident that love will prevails. Counting days seems strange to me but knowing the hearts intent…. That’s impowering and revealing. Its late and I need rest so goodnight all you wonderful people. God bless. 🙂 XOXOX

  445.  #445Indigo on July 24, 2013 at 10:01 pm



    Sending you both virtual love from across the ocean.


  446.  #446Indigo on July 24, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Lisa 429

    I SO get it.

    On Monday I was in that place.

    I felt as if our conversation where he told me that he was really sick ended abruptly (he probably didn’t think so, and that is something *I* have got to factor in and take on board). But in the end I was left feeling absolutely sick with worry and yes, a little frantic that I could not get through to him.

    There was a time a situation like that would have driven me to be absolutely beside myself. I mean as in, totally over-the-top anxious, crying, foetal position, desperate, in huge amounts of pain. And it would have caused me to talk to him in a way which would have expressed all of this – emailing, phoning, texting many, many times. I’m not proud of this. And yet this is the place just a few months ago.

    I could feel the difference in my energy on Monday, I really truly could, even though my emotions were running high. It came out in the way I expressed my messages to him. I noticed they were soft and loving, rather than demanding and desperate. And I STILL feel a phone call or a message to let me know how he was would have been good.

    And I was able to ask for it.

    And we were able to talk it out, and it was all good. Rather than dealbreaking or relationship-ending, it brought us closer together. Wow.

    And I was amazed.

    I’m not comparing my situation to yours because clearly they are very different. I guess I’m just saying I relate so much to working out those feelings that are in me – especially when you’re trying to untangle your stuff from what you need from a man.


  447.  #447Wildgeranium on July 24, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    CW told me early on to text him and see if he is available to talk on the phone–the phrase he suggested is “are you available to talk right now”? I can also just call and he’ll pick-up if he can. He dislikes text intensely, and feels that I hide behind e-mail too much (he won’t “discuss” anything serious on e-mail. I feel like I express myself much better in writing but I respect his needs and I am working on my telephone communication skills).

    Anyway, I’ve called him the last three days and he has been involved with something every time. On Monday he was walking and we talked and he was going to call me back later in the day to confirm something–he didn’t. Tuesday I called him again and he said he was still figuring it out and I had caught him in the middle of something so he said he’d call back later–he didn’t. So this morning I texted him and asked if he was available to talk. He texted back “not really, right now. What’s up?” So I texted back: “I was just wondering if you’d had a chance to find out about X(thing he was checking on)? The story I’m telling myself is that you are either very busy or you are avoiding me. Is there something I should know? ”

    It turned out he’d received a small writing job and was on a very tight deadline and he just needed to be absolutely focused. I realized (again) that avoiding or not responding is just not who he is. However, single focus and getting lost in work (and overworking)is him. I can’t take that personally. Its not about me.

    Anyway, my worries got resolved with no drama. He didn’t get irritated. I didn’t make it all about me. He was sweet and thanked me for checking in with him.

    I felt good about myself because I recognized that my worry was just a story. And the story was not true of course. I’m getting better and better at dropping the story.


  448.  #448Zia on July 24, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    Lisa 394: you’re welcome 🙂 xoxo

  449.  #449miranda faith on July 24, 2013 at 11:35 pm

    Anytime is good to hear from someone you love.. I’m really glad that your doing well. That fetal position remark sounds sad. I get upset myself very bad and I feel that expressing it doesn’t help so it is more challenging for me to express a relaxed state of self expression . But I sure do love my sunshine. <3 xoxo

  450.  #450Zia on July 24, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    Having so much fun on my self love journey….. best thing I’ve ever done. And I’m looking forward to saturday night, heading out on a girls night with one girl I’ve only met a few times and the rest of the girls I’ve never met before. Can’t wait to make some new friends and get my flirt on with men!

  451.  #451Indigo on July 25, 2013 at 3:24 am

    Feminine Woman,

    About bringing things back to me when I want a man to call, yes yes YES!

    That is what helped me get over the anxious state I described above. Sinking into the feeling, going deeper, sitting with the discomfort, bringing it back to me, NOT making it about him at all.

    And finally yes. I was able to identify a way of talking that worked for me and expressed what I was TRULY feeling and that felt good to him, and was in a way he could hear.

    I will add, what’s so great about things between me and D now is that we don’t talk about this stuff much. The brief misunderstandings that have come up – I think there have been three of them in the last two weeks, have been talked out in 10 minutes or less with no drama or fighting at all. I love this. I love that I don’t use therapy speak with him any more. I love that we don’t have long, draining conversations where we misunderstand each other. I love that we are giving each other the loving benefit of the doubt. I love it. I am so happy in this moment.

  452.  #452Syreena on July 25, 2013 at 3:25 am

    Breath play is definitely to do with control. It is to do with power play and control. Breath play.

    Extremely dangerous if anyone wants to consent, then that is up to them. I certainly would not want to encourage it though.

    Just know the risks before consenting. In 4 mins without air you are at risk of cardiac arrest, if you can’t be brought back they will be charged with muder or manslaughter regardless of if you consented. Even if you just pass out or are brought back brain damage can occur. If people still want to plat and risk it, up to them. Lisa did not consent to this power play. She was abused, she was a victim here and he was the perpetrator.

    Anyone doing this where consent hasn’t been given or asked for has abused someone plain and simple.

    What feels deeply upsetting to me is how this abuse to Lisa is being mimimised and brushed over WTF! I feel sick about that.

    Lisa, what are you even thinking having any contact with that man.

    Huge red flag.

  453.  #453Indigo on July 25, 2013 at 3:32 am

    Regarding your beautiful thoughts in 194, Wildgeranium,

    Yes, that is the state I am striving for to. “Just being”. And it feels wonderful being able to do that more and more, accepting who I am, being who I am, existing in calm and relaxation as much as possible.

    Last night I cooked dinner for D and myself. Sometimes he cooks, but mostly I do. I find it hugely therapeutic and relaxing. After dinner we settled in to watch something on the couch and without thinking too much, I offered him tea. He said yes please, and then backtracked and said sweetly and gently “no, you’ve done enough, you sit down and enjoy your chocolate” and he brought me tea. I almost fell off my chair. He has never said anything like that to me before. It was so gentle and masculine, and it was lovely for me to see this.

  454.  #454Indigo on July 25, 2013 at 3:35 am

    Wildgeranium 446

    It seems you and I are both learning that 🙂

  455.  #455Syreena on July 25, 2013 at 3:49 am

    I feel very sad to hear you were assaulted like this Lisa.

    And sad about other peoples lack of acknowledgement about that abuse.

    This hurts my heart.

  456.  #456MovingMagic on July 25, 2013 at 3:56 am

    For those of you interested in dance as a sort of therapy, I went to a “5 Rhythms” dance celebration on Tuesday. Each event focuses on a different theme. Tuesdays theme was “chaos”…we moved/danced/sweated, & wove in and out of spaces filled with at least 100 other, chaotic dancers. It was lead by a facilitator, & had purpose and intention. They’re held all over the country. It felt pretty amazing.

  457.  #457miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 4:24 am

    How was Lisa assaulted, is she ok?

  458.  #458Syreena on July 25, 2013 at 4:58 am

    Miranda . Lisa said that a man who she was invloved with tossed had previosly tossed her around during sex and was contolling in other ways. Then last week during sex put his hands around her throat without prior consent and she felt scared.

    That is classed as sexual assault and abuse. She could have him charged if she wanted to.

  459.  #459Dominique on July 25, 2013 at 5:24 am

    I did Femininewoman, thank you.

    Lisa this is for you.


  460.  #460miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 5:34 am

    Wow, I hope she is ok. Thats terrible!!

  461.  #461miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 6:08 am

    I am feeling that I hope it is a wonderful day, and full of smiles and happiness. I miss so much about the laughing and smiles and considerations. I’m glad to know an amazingly wonderful individual that is helping me smile about be. Blessings to you all…

  462.  #462miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 6:13 am

    Syreena u seem so inflamed about this issue, may I ask if are so informed and knowing of this who is ” he” that u refer?

  463.  #463miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 6:17 am

    I feel I have been silenced on this thread o have no feed coming through and it seems there are several comments missing…

  464.  #464miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 6:17 am

    I feel I have been silenced on this thread o have no feed coming through and it seems there are several comments missing…

  465.  #465Femininewoman on July 25, 2013 at 6:31 am

    Miranda I believe it is related to technical glitches. Every so often I notice it happens to me too and I have also seen other people comment about losing posts too.

  466.  #466miranda faith on July 25, 2013 at 6:53 am

    I know about comment being hung up in mod, but I’ve never seen where I see messages to people having a conversation and not see the other party anywhere on the post

  467.  #467BeLoved on July 25, 2013 at 7:12 am

    I’m reading this article over and over and nodding my head…yes, yes, yes, I’ve been doing this, this is the pattern in my family, this is exactly what I was taught, what I’ve been doing….
    I’ve felt the feelings of hostility that come up with feelings of dependence (and vomity shame, too!)…

    It’s making more and more sense.
    The procrastination, the so-called laziness, the helplessness, the confusion…so much of it I knew at an intellectual level, that I was raging against myself and mostly hurting myself, but I didn’t know what to do about it.
    Now I’m ‘grokking’ it and it feels like the simple awareness of it, partnered with the strength I’m cultivating by facing and feeling very difficult and challenging feelings and saying “no” to what I don’t want…is creating feelings of lightness,
    as if resistance is falling away
    errors in thinking correcting themselves effortlessly.

    “Whatever passive-aggressive traits we may have are strikingly akin to what is known in psychology as hostile dependency–and both terms are similarly oxymoronic. Since we could never trust that our parents would respond positively to our needs, now grown up we’re still not comfortable being in situations of dependency. But if, nonetheless, we’re saddled with unmet dependency needs from the past, we inevitably bring these needs–as well as our ambivalence about these needs–to all our close relationships. So if we give mixed messages to those we’re involved with (ultimately leaving them hurt, confused, or even outraged by our hostile-dependent reactions to them), it’s because we’ve never resolved our internal conflict about being dependent in the first place.

    It’s important to realize that passive-aggression is not necessarily less aggressive simply because it’s passive. Essentially, passive-aggression is an indirect form of aggression–not necessarily a milder form of aggression. Consequently, even as our unmet dependency needs from childhood may compel us toward relationships that offer us the hope of being comfortably dependent on another, our un-discharged anger toward our parents (who frustrated these needs initially) may prompt us to dump these still unresolved feelings on anyone who might actually be disposed to care for us. But whether or not we’re empathic enough to be aware of it, being late for a date (or breaking it at the last minute) with some lame excuse can still be extremely hurtful to another–as can a sarcastic remark thinly masked as an attempt at humor. In both instances, we might claim innocent intent, but we’ve nonetheless managed to draw blood. And finally our innocence must be seen as questionable.”