The Truth From A Man

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So what does a MAN think about all these Tools, and everything we’re saying here?

Pretty much exactly what I say – and it sounds so clear (and pretty harsh, too) coming from a man – it sort of wipes all the cobwebs off the table, dissolves the confusions, the misconceptions.

The only thing is – understanding what’s really going on is only the first part of our solution for ourselves. Once we “get” it – the way men really work – is to undo all our old habits and work through all the feelings that come up, and walk through all the roadblocks we’ve set for ourselves over our lives.  We have to UNDO what we’ve been TAUGHT.

So here’s a wonderful, thorough comment by “Jon” – (and thank you, so much, Jon, for this).  I’ll add to it with my own thoughts, and then let’s see how we can use what Jon says to strengthen our resolve to be ourselves, fully:

“Reading the whirlwind of emotion that women are feeling…I thought I’d comment from a mans perspective.

To me – it seems as though the primary problems are coming from 2 issues. One, the man isn’t clear on what he wants. And 2, if the woman doesn’t abide by what the man wants, he cares.

Everything seems to magically work itself out when the man says: “I want this, and this, and this – now let me get to know you and know if you are it, and if you are, there’s no more questions to ask.”

This isn’t rocket science.

And primarily, this all comes back to being honest with yourself. How can you expect anyone to be honest with you if you’re not honest with yourself?

A man either claims something (in this case a woman), or he doesn’t. That may sound strange coming from a man – but primarily, if a man is clear on what he wants … or simply stated: if I’m clear on what I want as a man, WHATEVER IT IS, and I’m damn honest about it, how long does it take me to evaluate whether what I want is in front of me?

Not long. It’s not something you “do,” IT’S SOMETHING YOU ARE.

But this requires the man to be a man and decide what he wants, and to be honest with what he wants…and then it requires the woman to be honest with him when he’s evaluating the situation and deciding whether what is in front of him is ‘Authentically what he wants.’

I could be wrong (not likely) – but if a man is thinking “I like this girl, and I want to be with her sexually but I need to meet her a few more times to know if I want to be with her sexually or for a long time”…then a man says “I like you, and I want to be with you sexually, but I need to meet you a few more time to know if I want to be with you long term.”

A BOY (whatever the opposite of a man is) plays a bunch of games and says anything except what he’s HONEST with.

Honesty, in my opinion, from a mans perspective, does not mean ‘not offending anyone’. It means claiming what you want and then not getting all emotional when the thing in front of you isn’t what you thought it was. You just say ‘I made a mistake, I thought you were one thing but you were another, I was wrong. Bye.’
No harm done.

It’s all these bullshit games in between.

And primarily, it’s the bullshit games that set off the woman to do all this crap he “doesn’t like.” If the man was just honest with her and said “You know what, I’ve decided I love the way your body looks in that outfit and I want to take you home with me. I won’t be marrying you, but you’ll have the best sex of your life. Let’s go.” AT LEAST THE WOMAN KNOWS WHAT’S UP.

As apposed to “Let me take you out for 5 months and all I wanted was sex to begin with.”

It’s not the woman who should DIRECT anything. Ya, you can give your opinion on what you like – but a man should know what you like…namely, he likes himself more than any other person alive, and he wants you to be your full self expressively with him because he is in love with that and everything about you because you ‘fit him’ so to speak. You add to his already full life. In a sentence, he’s claimed you or chosen you. “I want you because that’s what I want. I don’t need to explain.”

The woman is simply EXPRESSION.

And a man who naturally f***ing loves you will Praise you naturally. You can tell HONEST praise from everything else. If a BOY likes something about you, he won’t tell you what’s on his mind probably. If a MAN loves your laugh, he’ll tell you. If he loves your breasts, he’ll tell you. If he loves your smile, he’ll tell you.
You think ‘he cares what you think’? HE’S DOING IT FOR HIMSELF.

AND THAT’S WHAT’S ATTRACTIVE. HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS, AND SOMETIMES – HE HAPPENS TO WANT YOU. Even if you said “F*** you asshole.” He’d still love your smile. Cause he’s a man and claims what he wants. He doesn’t back down if he’s true to himself cause he’s #1 to himself, and that’s what you love about him. He’s #1 to himself, AND HE CLAIMED YOU.

You: “No men exist like that.”

Well, boys don’t act like that, no. But men do.

If you ask him: “Are you going to marry me?”

A man says Yes, No, or Really wants to find out more about you or experience some things he needs to with you before deciding.

A boy …pretty much does anything else.

But it’s simply because a REAL MAN knows what he wants – so it’s easy for him to DECIDE and therefore, if he’s decided you’re what he’s looking for – it’s easy for you to fully EXPRESS who you are because HE’S DECIDED YOU ARE WHAT HE WANTS. You don’t need to “do” anything. You simply “ARE” what he wants.

Just thought I’d throw my own thoughts into the mix – but in my opinion, it starts with the man. He has to know what he wants and be completely honest with what he wants…and then he has to not care what anyone else thinks.

All problems stem from forgetting rule #1: I’m a man, I know what I want, I’m the most important person in my life, and who cares what people think.

If any of this is missing, I’ve got to think it’s the wrong path. Cause you’re not “looking” for Mr. Right – there’s a guy out there somewhere who knows what he wants, and when he sees you, he’s just going to claim you because YOU’RE YOU.

So what does this mean?

YOU MUST be your authentic self – or your “Mr. Right” (for lack of better wording) is never going to see you. By all definitional purposes – you’re invisible to him if you’re not being true to yourself and honest and authentic with what YOU want as a woman. Jon.”

***Thank you, Jon.  This is so heartfelt and passionate and clear – and it’s so incredibly encouraging to hear from a man who cares so much about relationships – and about women.

Now for my two cents: The thing that I want you all to know is that most of us are not in that clear space.

Most men are not in that clear space (and so they are “boys” indeed), and most of us women have never, ever been taught to believe in ourselves enough to even KNOW what our authentic selves look and FEEL like – much less risk the leap of faith required to TRUST our authentic selves (which is all based, for us women, in our Feelings – the way Jon describes this clear, gut level knowingness that a “man” has).

The questions to ask then, are – Can a man who is acting like a boy be turned into a man?  What does it take to turn a boy into a man?  What do we do if we’ve been trained our whole lives and only feel ATTRACTED to, and so only ATTRACT – boys?  Can a man’s feelings change?  Can he “love us” and then that feeling fades after knowing us?  Can he be in that “I need to know you better” stage and then fall in love?

Because it’s in that “I need to know you better” stage that all our work is happening.  What we do in that period of time can make all the difference – and there are risks all around.  If we are totally ourselves – we may not fit the man, nor he us.  And if we are not totally ourselves – how will either of us ever know?

It’s the decision we make that our best shot for love, romance and the whole kit and kaboodle lies with our totally being ourselves – our best, most highly evolved, most straight-talking, feeling-feeling selves – and working towards THAT – that will get us all where we want to go.

And I also think that’s our best shot of helping boys become men.

Men and women truly are different in the way we see ourselves.  I absolutely love Jon’s concept that a woman is simply EXPRESSION.

And that’s where our work is – and thanks to Jon for the straight-up, manly, masculine, clear encouragement for our expressing ourselves fully – and so LET’S GO BE ABOUT THAT!!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1ultragreen on December 5, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    One of my buddies is always talking about your blog at work – finally came and checked it out today, nice work! I’m subscribing to your rss feed – keep on posting!

  2.  #2alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 2:18 am

    this was great to read. thanks rori for posting it and jon for writing it. i especially loved the part about a woman needing to be her authentic self. otherwise in my opinion it seems kind of doomed bc eventually a facade crumbles. but authenticity shines on and on effortlessly. and like jon said even if you said f you ass**** the guy is still going to dig you if he dug you before. i love who i love regardless of the human mistakes that come up between me and my beloveds.

    for me though being half man i can understand a man’s waffling. i myself can really really like even love a man but not be sure i want to commit to him. in fact just tonight i was reflecting how tickled i am that i never married or settled down with any of my exes. of course catch me when i am feeling lonely and i’ll be boohooing that so and so ex #3 never claimed me.but for tonight i am quite pleased bc i feel like if i had stayed with one of those others i would be less of a woman and less capable of TRUE love. so lucky single me (with zero men in my rotation)

    also i think i am just coming into myself as a woman so it is kind of fun to be growing up right along side my boys as they are devloping into men.

    this was a great post. so great to hear it straight from a man.

  3.  #3JP on December 6, 2008 at 2:30 am

    When I read Jon’s comment I felt angry. If only things were that simple – that men knew exactly what they wanted and women had their self-esteem intact and could just be themselves.

    But personally, I LOVE being in the space where no-one is perfect, I’m EXCITED to be in the Adventure rather than picturing the Palace in the distance and feeling all wistful.

    At my age, most men and women have sustained a few knocks along the way.

    If a man said to me ‘you’ll have the best sex of your life. Let’s go’ I’d laugh my head off. I’d think ‘What a jerk!’. Sex isn’t ‘given’ -it’s experienced. Even in a one-nighter (and I’m a graduate of the School of Floozy), it’s how I FEEL, not what he’s doing.

    So much in relationships happens subconsciously – personally I don’t have a prescription for exactly what a man should be like, look like or how he spends his time and money. I just know how I want to feel in his presence, and I know that my ‘stuff’ can mess up how I feel, so I continue to work with that.

    That’s what I call intimacy – opening up authentically, listening and responding to the other, travelling through the many and varied regions of the shared space and meeting all manner of hobgoblins, dragons and magic horses along the way 🙂

  4.  #4JP on December 6, 2008 at 3:36 am

    On the other hand, I’d like to thank Jon for letting me off the ‘asshole’ hook. A while back, I went out with a guy who promised me everything, met his kids, family etc, then, on a dime, vanished and moved in with an ex-girlfriend. My gut told me that’s what he’d done, and it wasn’t difficult to confirm – there was his car, snuggled in on the driveway late at night..and the next. Something wicked in me took over, and I honked my horn, and texted ‘you know what? You’re an asshole’.

    I never heard from him again 🙂 though I did text a day later saying ‘I was angry but thank you for helping me be absolutely clear about what I want’.

    We are, as Jon says, all about expression.

  5.  #5Maria on December 6, 2008 at 8:00 am

    Jp – l think the one thing that God has given us, is our gut instict, that tells us things before the action, which in most of the times we just do not want to belive and ignore, cos whats in front of us (boy-man, or boy, or man, whatever) is, you see, just so irresistible. And we are so looking for love.
    l belive what Jon says is what it is, there is no second thoughts if a man wants a particular woman for good, however, if we talk about the rest of the major stuff – why men cant be honest in the very beginning? And even if, indeed man leads the direction, we need to be somehow aware of dishonesty that might come up. So lm wondering, do we really ignore our insticts, or is there some piece missing in my puzzle? (Rory, ld like to know what do you think?)
    Personallt there is 2 things l found from this – one is, that ld really hate to be in the proccess of “lemme just check you out to be sure if l want you for good” – personally l think it is not honest either, why, cos indeed the “work” starts, and second – you truly have to be so aware and know yourself and know your boundaries.
    step by step:)

  6.  #6Bethany on December 6, 2008 at 9:15 am

    I have come to realize that I have a boy, not even a boy-man, because what the hell? We had dinner last night, where he looked at the cute blond waitress with lust and she was flirting with him (only addressed him, had her body turned toward him) and when he looked at her TWICE like that I felt so awful and underappreciated, because he hasn’t wanted to be intimate with me for 2 weeks…he is soooooo busy with school, he says, but stopped by my place and we messed around for a little bit but then he STOPPED again and said something about how he was hungry and wanted honey-roasted peanuts. Wow, I’m so flattered that my body is second to snack foods. I felt angry and hurt but I didn’t say anything. We lay there for a while, chatting, and then he said he was REALLY TIRED and going back to his place and that I could come sleep at his place if I wanted. Ha! I said I felt like staying at my place. Before he left he said “you’re good to me” and I said “well, you’re good to me.” What?! Total lie, just popped out of my mouth. This guy is NOT treating me well, and I’m sorry if I’m just putting my own stuff up here and not respondig to other people, I really want to, but right now I need some advice from anyone willing to throw in their two cents. Here’s what I want to say to him today:

    “I really like you, but I feel like this just isn’t working for me. I feel myself falling for you, but for the past two weeks, I have felt like things have suddenly become different and it doesn’t feel good…I understand that you are having a tough time with school, and I understood completely what you said the other night about feeling like the person you thought you would be is not the person you are…I know I can’t change anything about that for you, but I’m always here to listen if you wanted to talk. If you can’t see what a capable person you are, then I know there’s nothing I can do to make you see that. I can support you and that’s it, and I want you to know that I do. But lately I’ve felt unwanted and ignored because our time together feels transitory, and the physical stuff feels robotic, I don’t ever want to feel like that with a guy. I’ve been there before, and I feel tired of that kind of behavior. You have every right to feel how you feel and think what you want to think, and if you are truly that busy and preoccupied then I would understand if you have no time for a girlfriend. But I never want to feel second-class [especially to honey-roasted peanuts]. What I want is something that feels like more of a partnership, where my needs and the other persons needs get met. I want to get married and have children eventually, and if you’re not ready for that, then I can’t be your girlfriend. I still want to see you, but I just want to let you know that even though no one has asked me out yet, I’m going to start accepting dates with other guys.”

    Can I send this in an e-mail? Am I selfish? How long do you wait for someone who’s having a hard time? Who’s sooooo busy? I’m busy too! The President of the United States is busy, and that marriage hasn’t fallen apart! It’s only been three months…things should feel closer, not more distant, right?

  7.  #7Reshi on December 6, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Bethany, I don’t think you need to say even that much–you could just say “hey, I’ve been feeling unwanted and ignored, and I don’t want to feel that way with a guy, and I’m going to start accepting dates from other guys.” Don’t even offer him understanding. But leave the door open for him to get hs act together before he gets to spend any time with you.

    Of course, this is easier said than done. It’s so easy to act scared and to think HE’s the prize. But that bit about the honey roasted peanuts made me feel so angry…lol…I don’t even know the guy…but that kind of bullshit MIGHT be excusable AFTER the wedding…definitely not while dating.

    Speaking of cute blonde waitstaff, last night I took myself out for dinner and was totally shocked to find the cute blonde waiter totally hanging on me…he must have come by my table 5 times for no good reason to check on me…and I’m not even someone who attracts cute young guys, I usually only get appreciated by old men…I’m telling you there’s something in the water, or maybe it’s Rori’s tools…

  8.  #8alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    hah hah reshi good for you! it’s definitely rori’s tools.

    bethany. i personally would try to do it in person. bc that way you can spponfeed himfeeling messages and then listen at level 2 for his response. then feed him a little more of your speech then listen at level 2. etc. also i would keep in the part about what you are looking for is marriage etc. also remember if you were to marry this guy that not everything in a marriage flows perfectly a(or so i’m told) so you would sometimes need to make speeches. so this is practice for you. whether or not you end up with honey peanuts guy it is still going to be a valuable experience. good luck!

  9.  #9alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    jp i loved your post about being in the now rather than the wistfully projected palace. also about initmacy and imperfection. i’ll take imperfection and acceptance anyday over facade and impossible expectations.

  10.  #10Daria on December 6, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Hey everyone I really liked this part in Mama Gena’s book where she recommends that women be as Agressive about our pleasure as we are about our men. WOW ! And I am still so very agressive about men! Thinking about which one I want to call me today, etc, etc… well here’s to pleasure… it’s great fun to focus on it in the morning instead of men!

    here is a list of how I might pleasure myself today:

    take myself out to eat (sushi?, italian?)
    edit my mom’s essay
    finish my goodbye letter to ex- vice president lol
    write review fill in sheet for my students
    go out to a park and lay on the grass
    smoke weed (sorry just came to me I know controversial)
    paint my toenails
    organize my clothes
    read inspiring e-books and blog (this is my only blog I blog on! Never thought it would be me! hehe)

    Oh also I would like to brag that yesterday before my date I went and got myself my first professional massage! yay…

    Uff… my dad just came in here and criticized me and I forgot to use a feeling message… I could try… I feel criticized… ! I would love to improve my relationship with my very critical, very difficult yet loving dad!

  11.  #11Daria on December 6, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Bethany I feel your upsetness, as well as fear! I would suggest you riff and take yourself to as good a place as you can before initiating the speech… also I agree with Reshi that it can be shorter… because it’s supposed to be Feeling messages Only and one line AT a TIME!

    I also agree with Alias Girl that you might want to keep some marriage stuff in there…

    PS – I’m pretty sure I’ve been in the “dumped for peanuts” situation before! It’s about HIM not YOU! Also been in the ogling waitress situation… again about HIM. Big flags I would say…

  12.  #12Linda on December 6, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Interesting Post here. I am not sure what to believe anymore. I met a man who for lack of better words he claimed me! It was quite flatering. I (we) wer totally ourselves with each other. No struggles simply being with each other. I was wonderful. He told me more than once I completed him. I was a perfect fit, things between us flowed like milk and honey. His man energy was alluring and I fell hook line and sinker. There was not one thing that was out of sinc between us.Our Emotional connection was our strongest point. It was always easy to be me. That is who I have always been. I would never become something I wasnt for a man ever! I am not that desperate and I have to live with myself everyday. I was never insecure or anxious and completely relaxed with him. So.. in some regard I have experience what he talking about.\

    However, it all changed suddenly.!!! and I mean suddenly. As I type this as of a week ago the man who chose me, the man who claimed me, whom I flowed with for two years… is not even talking to me.. says he is not in love with me and loves me as a dear friend! What is up with that!!!??? I find out too he is seeing others via the internet. Which by the way is suggested a great pool to fish from but I have never found a keeper there. They all seem to play games on there and they are all players

    When did it all get to be so hard? Who changed the rules here? Does a man become a boy? Or was he a boy just prentending to be a man. I am truely scratching my head here. I totally and without reserve fall in love with a man who totally was into me… and now I am left picking up the pieces of my shattered heart and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. I am down right ANGRY!!!

    It seems that somebody is always changing the game and it is us women that are responsible for it in some way because of insecurities etc…. and we have to keep reinventing ourselves. I am tired of it all. When are men ever gonna be held accountible too?

  13.  #13Maria on December 6, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Linda, lm totally with you on this. l know what you mean. My heart goes with you, that is the only thing l can say now.

  14.  #14Daria on December 6, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Linda I send u a flower hug! Try riffing!!! And turning it around, following it around in your body… so that You can feel good! It works for me and I used to always get stuck with at least a little bit of bad feeling… I thought that Nothing would work for me but riffing does.

    I love focusing on pleasure… it’s so cool to wake up and think about how to pleasure myself today!!! It’s just as if not more fun than thinking about men!! Yay I am feeling empowered. And my mom just gave me a chance to edit her essay and thus do one of my pleasure tasks!! YAY!!

  15.  #15alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    damn. i just went to get this part for my car and the guy in the store was super super helpful and spent time with my helping me do boy stuff and he called me sweetie and even went outside where my car was parked and helped me put the part on! he asked me questions EXCEPT for the most crucial one of asking me out. and what the heck? i mean i could tell he was nervous but damn. damn. i even hung out in my car for a brief pause before leaving in case he got a sudden bout of courage and asked me out. i can’t date a girl. i need a strong (yet with a little bit of a reserve in his enthusiasm) but a strong confident risk taking manly man to date. damn. i’m trying to think what else i might have done to give him the greenlight signal that my answer would have been Yes.

  16.  #16alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    hi linda. i agree with daria. try riffing from the power and self esteem posts. i can’t remember if you’ve already gone through the power and self esteem series but if not you can start at the beginning just by going to the side bar here on rori’s blog under power and self esteem. or for anyone new reading. follow the posts from the beginning all the way through and check out the comments too bc you will see how rori tweaked the process for some.

    ie my problem is that i don’t have enough cute manly men in my rotation

    the Theme of this is my perpetual aloneness and not thinking myself worthy of delicious good men

    i Want a pool of delicious strong wonderful men i am attracted to and can have fun with to be interested in me and want to please me and take me out but not come on so strong or desperatelt that they scare me

    i feel excited and scared that this could really happen for me. it feels like fun in my tummy and a very excited and open vagina and arms that want to flop around while i dance. i feel hopeful and that feels like w wonderful blue sky with just the right amount of sun. i feel more courageous and willing to experiment. i feel grateful for rori’s tools and programs and blog. i feel a deep love for men and mankind and life and self. i feel excited more than i feel scared. i feel like all my body parts are connected. i feel dreamy eyes and soft face. i feel smiling and pleased with myself.

    well there was not a lot of bad feelings to mroph but if there had been they would have morphed into power and with that power i could channel it into something from my to do list of pleasure or accomplishment or what not. i could have taken an action. or i could have lounged around reveling in my power. 🙂

    but in my experience if i use those specific tools when i get negatively triggered i come out the other end a brand new woman. xo

  17.  #17Reshi on December 6, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    Linda, my heart goes out to you, I know what that is like and I’m feeling the anger today too, it keeps coming over me in waves. And I also wonder about men being held accountable, sometimes it seems as though they just plain don’t care about anyone but themselves. Even when they love us they don’t REALLY care about US, they care about themselves and how we make THEM feel. Jon even said so in his post: “You think ‘he cares what you think’? HE’S DOING IT FOR HIMSELF.”

    And I’m finding that hard to take even though I know I’m focused on myself as well, or supposed to be focused on myself. I’m feeling very negative and scared about love at this point. How can it be love if it’s ultimately all about ourselves? Do I even want a relationship? And I know I don’t have to answer that question right this instant, but it definitely makes me think. Jon’s post makes me think. He says “you’re not “looking” for Mr. Right – there’s a guy out there somewhere who knows what he wants, and when he sees you, he’s just going to claim you because YOU’RE YOU.”

    I so want this to be true. And at the same time I know it can’t possibly happen for me right now because I’m NOT me. I’m not authentic and I have a lot of work to do on myself. (Maybe that makes me authentically f***ed up?) I know I’m not living my truth or my highest vision. And I so want to be living my truth and my highest vision. I want to be taking baby steps toward it, at least.

    And you know what? I AM f***ing taking baby steps. I AM beginning to create a better career and financial independence for myself, even if it hasn’t showed up in meatspace yet. I AM getting my emotions into a far, far better state than they ever have been in, I am healing my relationships with my family, I am taking care of myself. There is so much good I AM doing in my own life right now.

    So maybe, someday, this nebulous man in the ether who knows what he wants and wants THIS pocket-sized bronze goddess will in fact show up and point to me and say “Mine.” I think I’d like that very much.

  18.  #18alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    i heart you reshi. 🙂 your process is so beautiful.

    i feel ok that a man is all about himself. most humans are i think. most just try to pretend they are not. YOUR needs are as important and as urgent and as worthwhile as a man’s just as soon as you start belieivng they are. and then from that point people can start negotiating. i am #1 with me too. i would want a man who feels the same about himself. and then i feel safe with him. otherwise it gets too messy and convoluted for me. i love me. 🙂

  19.  #19Reshi on December 6, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    I guess I’ve just heard so much “it’s not OK to be selfish” AND so much “you have to be selfish, no one else will look out for you if you don’t”, I find it hard.

    I guess I do want a guy who loves himself first–if he didn’t he’d be clingy and needy and ugh–but I don’t want to think about what happens when loving himself means kicking me to the curb. Been there, done that, read the book, got the T-shirt, don’t want to go there again, EVER.

    If he’s not going to love me for who I really and truly am, for the long haul, then he’s not good enough for me. (Damn, I am one selfish bitch :D)

    The hardest part is that I’m standing in a place where I’m NOT who I really and truly am, and there’s no shortcut to there from here. If there was I would have been on it last week. Patience is a bitch.

  20.  #20Erika on December 7, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Love hearing a guy’s perspective 🙂

  21.  #21Rori Raye on December 7, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Reshi – this is the whole great point. If a man really loves himself – he’ll love you AS himself – in fact MORE than himself, because you are the EXPRESSION of HIM. You enable him to BE himself – his full self.

    And the work we’re doing is getting to being OUR full selves. Step by step. And you are…Love, Rori

  22.  #22Rori Raye on December 7, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Welcome, Ultragreen, and look forward to your insights, comments and questions. Love, Rori

  23.  #23Linda on December 7, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Thanks ladies.. I have been unable to purchase any of the programs on here because of their expense. I will look thru the posts.

    I want to shake the fellow I love and say.. wake up you are making life so hard. Crap! (shaking my head) It does not have to be this way. I have read all kinds of topics and things on this site and others. They all seem to point to us gals doing something wrong and that we can fix it by adjusting our behaviors. I know that we all have room to grow and learn and improve and should Believe me I am all for that. But… sometimes it is none of those things about us and it is about HIS issues.. we ladies can be at the top of our game and it all still comes crashing down because of his “stuff” not ours.

    It makes me sad to the point of having pity for him.. seeing him make his life so hard.. it is like he is driven almost adictively to try and compensate for some inadequacies in himself through multiple relationships instead of focusing on being a dedicated loving partner like he was with me at one time. It really was a great 2 years!.

    The thing is.. the feeling of “being in love” while awesome comes and goes.and boy did I feel that with him…yet I know the rush of the feelings can be addictive and lead us around like a hog with a ring in it’s nose. Love a choice and it takes a commitment to make it work in all cases in all relationships. That is where the breakdown occurs. Lack of committing.

    I would love an opportunity to reconnect. We were so good together before he changed. I do grieve loss. I know there are lots of other fellows out there but this fellow hit all the things on my list of must haves in a relationship and added a few!.

    Is there a way I can still try to reconnect?… we are not speaking because he said he wants space and solitude to search out his true feeling.(what makes me mad is I know he is talking and being with another women or more and not being by himself if that were the case I would be glad.) I am totally frustrated and tired. Wanting something that does not happen and not seeing a good reason why compounds the frustration.

    Men will be men and boys will be boys? hmmmm I think that is a hard one to tag and it is not until we have lost our heart or been deceived or been mislead that we know and then we cant even be sure. It is all bewildering! I just want to fix it have my man and move on with my life its to short to be miserable! If I were in charge of the world things would sure be different! LOL

  24.  #24Ann on December 7, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Thank you Rori for sharing Jon’s letter. Thank you Jon for sharing with us.

    They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I’m beginning to think perception is also in the eye of the beholder. If you took 2 individuals and did or said something my bet would be each person saw and heard it at least a little differently.

    For instance the words “asshole” and “bitch” I have 2 meanings for each of those words.

    Example 1 of a asshole-A man who does something, could be mean or just indifferent, to if he’s hurting or angring someone else.

    Example 2 of a asshole-Usually in reference to a man, if I say, you’re a asshole” in a teasing playful manner, I mean it as a compliment. Usually, he’s just said something true or playful that one up me lol Or I know he calmly spoke the truth whether I want to hear it or not.

    Example 1 of a bitch-A female that’s usually angry and/or spiteful, being assertive and/or aggressive determine to have her way.

    Example 2 of a bitch-A female that’s in that part of herself that’s saying “I will stand up for me even if noone else does”. Usually is calm, assertive and honest. Being true to herself in the moment.

    These 2 words usually have a negative conutation(sp) in our society. But I’ve learn to recognize which way a person means “bitch” at me when they use it. I’m also learning to accept, love and nuture the example 2 bitch in me.

    Jon’s words made me think about these 2 words. Because they made me think of a male friend whom I’ve referred to as a example 2 asshole. I always say he walks to the beat of his own drum, he does things his way in his own time. He can be very kind, charming, and helpful but on a whole he doesn’t appear to seek other’s approval.

    As I use Rori’s tools, I’m learning to focus more on me, learning to do things that make me happy, learning to be more authenic.

    As I read Jon’s words I’m wondering “Are the real men ahead of us just a little bit? I percieved Jon’s words as saying a real man is honest, honors his own feelings and does what makes him happy. He doesn’t intentional try to use or hurt others.

    To be as a female that doesn’t seem like a bad thing to strive for.

  25.  #25Bethany on December 7, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Linda, the most impossible feeling for you right now is probably that you can believe in and get into yourself enough to feel like you can let go of this man and the outcome with him. The place where you’re strong enough in yourself to take or leave him. I know this is easier said than done and I’m not there myself yet, but have you done the power and self-esteem posts on the blog? They help!

    Reshi, alias girl and Daria, thanks for your input–it helped me check my need to just dump all my frustration onto him. And Reshi, I love your selfishness! I’m getting to know my inner bitch too!

    But my inner bitch is still too dormant. I just get angrier and angrier, and the more angry I get, the more dissociated from my feelings. Last night Honey Peanuts Gucalled all smiley and asked if I wanted to have dinner with him and one of his FEMALE friends. She never threatened me before, but the way things have been going, me feeling second-class with him, it stung a little. I couldn’t go, then he showed up to this birthday party I was at and didn’t really act warm and boyfriend-y to me, except when I said something he thought was silly (I didn’t catch what was so funny at all) and later at the bar he hugged me in a “no, silly” sort of way and my girlfriend called him on being condescending. THEN, of course, the girl I’m most jealous of, dark hair, hipster type, pretty, friend of his, showed up and hung around with us ALL night, and he pretty much just talked to her, and they were dancing off by themselves (not “together” but near each other) for a while. He was really animated and talk-y with her, and I felt so bad. So jealous. I asked my friend why he was flirting with her, and she said she didn’t pick up on it. She said she didn’t think he was into this other girl. So I stuffed my feelings because what the hell else could I have said or done? At one point, I was standing near them and as she left to go sit at a table, he turned his body AWAY from me TOWARDS her! Then, after we left, we saw her walking and he said “oh, we shoud give her a ride!” But we didn’t. Then, when he dropped me off at my car, I stalled until he said I could come over to his place, and we went to bed, but not before he said something else about this girl and her ex-boyfriend. After a while, he rolled on top of me and I ended up giving him oral sex. Then I asked if he gets tired after he ejaculates, and he said “yeah…sorry.” So I didn’t get any kind of love or affection. I feel so angry and so low…this morning he said when I was resting on his chest that I look like a hump-back whale. WHAT?!!! I don’t think he meant it as an insult, but…why am I keeping on taking crumbs from this boy-man? I feel soooo bad for giving him oral sex after having felt like I’d been treated like dirt. Who does that? I feel like a prostitute. I am shaking so hard right now. I have to get out of this place. I don’t know if I can make it another two weeks. I feel like such a slut. I feel so bad. This is never going to work. I bought this book, “Finding your North Star” by Martha Beck, and I recommend it to anyone on here trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives. The feelings I had back in 2005 to go to fashion school in London, which cropped up again in 2006 and led me to take a short course in fashion there and almost quit my grad school program, are popping up again. I don’t know…I used to draw clothes when I was little, and I love fashion…everything inside me says go to fashion school in London…I don’t know why it has to be that city, but that’s my Wildly Improbable Goal that Beck talks about. It will be unbelievably hard, but that’s what I want, I think. I talked myself and let others talk me out of it before, but I can’t stay in this town for this one guy who will spend the evening giving attention to other random women and then take a blow job from me without giving back. No, wait, I can’t let myself stay in a town where my self-esteem is so low that I will stay attached to a man who gives me less attention than other women and whom I freely give blow jobs to in hopes that he’ll love me. God. Who am I? I feel so low for acting this way. I want to love myself. I want to believe that I can have a great relationship with passion instead of awkwardness. Am I subconsciously making this thing go down the toilet to give myself permission to leave this place behind? I don’t know.

  26.  #26Bethany on December 7, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Does anyone who works on channeling find that even though you are working on your “boy” stuff and doing something else, you can’t quite get him out of your mind completely? What do you do about that?

  27.  #27Bethany on December 7, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    Oh and Reshi, yeah, I feel what you mean…patience is a bitch, but a bitch isn’t patient. She probably tells a guy to go f**k himself if he treats her poorly…in a nice sort of way, though.

  28.  #28Daria on December 7, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Dear Bethany… the situation sounds awful! Hugs! I’ve been there before!! With the friend, the attention, the blowjob… all of it! I feel so angry for u!! Now that you are noticing your mistakes (you are right?) you can start to move away from them.

    I just got a voicemail and then a call today from an ex that used to be emotionally (to say the least) abusive and I felt all turned on by the romantic way he talked to me… then I felt scared because I felt out of control… part of me wants to see him when he comes back in town in a month and part of me wants him to disappear from my life. Fortunately I am not in a tailspin… I feel stronger than in the past… and more able to choose what feels good to me…

    Hugs and I can’t wait to hear good news from u! oh and please Riff!!!

  29.  #29Daria on December 7, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Bethany sometimes that happens to me where thoughts of him are spinning around all day! Maybe try to notice them and accept them… like if they’re going to be here I might as well ENJOY them! Sounds weird but takes the charge off… also try (and it might not come as easily as it seems) to picture what you Really want to happen… Picture him acting that way – takes some practice. Also try to think up things that pleasure you… what works for me is asking… what would I really want to happen this moment… like right now I would really like my parents to be ready to go to the restaurant, and my feet to feel comfortable. LOL… as you keep pleasuring yourself (I went and got myself a massage, etc… you’ll notice more and more pleasure, feel better and the thoughts will be SO MUCH EASIER to bear, in fact they probably won’t bother you at all… also stuff you want to happen will start to, and even difficult people will start being nicer… hehe)

  30.  #30Caj13 on December 7, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Linda and Bethany –

    What’s happening to you is just so unfair, and you don’t deserve it. It’s you who are being hurt, so stop punishing yourselves and making it worse.

    I so feel your despair. Sink into it, wallow in it awhile, until it starts to lighten and drift off a little. And I so feel your anger, which is GOOD. Feel it, thrash it out, screech with fury… It’s telling you precious things about who you are, and what you want.

    Look back on the ‘Heal Your Heart Section’ – I think you’ll find some stuff in there to help. Take heart – You deserve to be comforted and soothed right now, and rocked gently to sleep.

  31.  #31Ann on December 7, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Bethany let me quote something to you I fall back on when I’m comparing and feeling jeolous of another female. I have to paraphrase because I can’t remember the exact quote but I know it goes like this:

    “THERE IS NO COMPETITION. You are the only person in this world like you. You are good enough.”

    I believe I got this from Rori. It hit me like a ton of bricks. It was the beginning of me letting go, for the most part, of jeolousy. I realize I don’t have to compete with other women. I’M A FINE female. Does that mean other’s won’t find fault in me? No it doesn’t it means, it’s not my business what others think. All that matters is what I think of me. And if I treat myself well and I THINK I look good, I’ll see people all over who feel the same way as I do.

    My thoughts on sex go like this. If a man wants to feel the joy and pleasure I can give him then he damn well better be trying to return the favor. Because the days of duty sex, or sex to get a man to love me are over with for me.

    What I do when I’m doing boy stuff and a man pops in my thoughts is say “thanks, I’m busy right now but I’ll think about it later”. If I stay focus on me feeling good then usually it just fades out.

    Bethany best wishes to you on your journey to love Bethany first. HUGS

  32.  #32alias girl on December 7, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    ann i love your paraphrased quote. i totally am on board with that. there are so many women younger prettier sexier better in bed etc etc etc than me. but i don’t care. i used to care sooooooooo much about all that stuff. but nobody is me and i’m pretty great in my opinion as far as humans go. and so when i meet a man and i think that he’s great plus i’m great plus what is between us is great and i’m like c’mon what else are you going to find that is what we have. but if the man is not ready then ok fine. but in the back of my mind i think he is a little less intelligent than i thought and definitely not one to recognize an opportunity. so then i don’t feel so bad as i let go of him. ok bye. bc each coupling is a once in alifetime opportunity. that’s the way i see it.

    bethany you are doing fabulous. stay with your FEELINGS. and it seems most of the evening you were feeling horrible. you can always opt out of the evening and say i feel bad i’m going home.
    doing the power and self esteem tools are the most powerfulway through the muck and murky waters in my opinion. when you are riffing then you are right there in your feelings. if the guy pops into your head you can riff about your FEELINGS about that. peanuthead humback guy sounds like kind of a douche from your description. or maybe just really really really young. i’m sorry. i apologize for passing judgement. i usually try to refrain from doing that as you are wwith him for a reason and all humans have equal value.

    xoxo 🙂

  33.  #33Cassandra on December 8, 2008 at 8:51 am

    Linda and Bethany….I hate that you are hurting. Just like Daria, Alias Girl and Reshi said….riff and fall INTo your feelings and you will end up in a lighter, happier, more peaceful emotion. You guys DO NOT deserve to be treated this way and in my opinion neither of these guys deserve to even be in your presence! You both deserve to be treated like a princess and pampered. I wish I could give you both a hug!

    I have a question similar to Reshi’s….Rori can you chime in on this? Here is what Reshi had said regaring something Jon had mentioned – thanks Jon for your post and insight BTW-
    “Even when they love us they don’t REALLY care about US, they care about themselves and how we make THEM feel. Jon even said so in his post: “You think ‘he cares what you think’? HE’S DOING IT FOR HIMSELF.” OK we all know that is the truth…to me it simple seems that men are sickenlingy selfish in today’s world. here is what I DONT get though… parents have been married for over 45 years and are more in love today than ever. My Dad is still chasing my Mom around the house and they are not only IN LOVE but the best of friends. My Dad puts my Mom BEFORE he puts himself and she puts HIM BEFORE she puts herself. This is how I was raised and sadly it is a part of me and in today’s world that does not work. We end up overfunctioning. Rori… did this change? It seems to me that men are so sickenly selfish and are as Jon even confirmed ALL ABOUT THEMSELVES! how can we give to someone that is all about himself? I don’t get that part. Now I can say that the last month or so things havebeen GREAT with Charles and he has NOT been as selfish as he was at one point but I am also focusing on ME and what FEELS good to ME. I don’t get how things got so all ‘all about me’. I don’t know perhaps it is how I was raised but like Reshi experienced too…in my family it was NOT a good thing to be selfish. Can anyone clarify?? Thanks guys…..
    Love and hugs…

  34.  #34Maria on December 8, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Hi all…The tools that I’ve been using to get my focus off of my man is the flying one from “The Modern Siren” program it’s been working so good for me…even when I’m with him and the 100 man out the window one too… I also touch a lot of objects too. And he just comes after me like white on rice, he goes crazy…”News Flash” he told me he can’t live without me anymore that he’s been so selfish and that he loves me deeply and don’t ever want to lose me for any one, and that he’s been thinking so much that I’m the one for him…I responded with feeling messages: “I don’t want to be your girlfriend nor your friend right now” he said what do you want so I said: “I want to be in a commited live together or marriage relationship…I want to wake up with you and go to bed with you, I feel I want to share my life with you” he said: I want that too…but when he was pouring out to me like never b4 I told him I felt like crying and he hugged me I then cried and was listening at level 2 to him, I couldn’t believe my ears it was as if all my hard work with the tools were starting to pay off oh my GOD just thinking about it gives me the goose pumps…and Rori is so right about how the results start real soon, it’s like you plant it then all of a sudden you start seeing fruit…WOW! for lack of a better word…So I just got done ordering the “Commitment Blueprint” because I know that I know in my knower that it’s the perfect timing…I feel so so so happy, he said he wants us to spend X-mas eve, day and the whole weekend together and that he’s cooking for me……..Yaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! I can’t wait…seriously….
    I’ll keep you posted…Bless you all!

  35.  #35Reshi on December 8, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    Wow Maria, congratulations! I am so happy for you. That is absolutely amazing.

  36.  #36Cassandra on December 9, 2008 at 6:54 am

    Maria…I am so excited for you! I hope hta youenjoy and fall back into every single moment and relish this journey. I really am excited for you and can’t wait to see what awesome things happen next! Keep us updated so that we can learn from your experience and celebrate with you ok? With love and hugs….

  37.  #37elizabeth on May 19, 2011 at 10:35 am

    i love this post. so often i ened up with boys that acted as such. i would tell them what i wanted and never get a return. i believe being a woman is following the same criteria as being a man. it’s too often that ‘girls’ ruin ‘men’. i have met a man and am very happy with him. he tells me how it is and i do the same for him. perhaps that is why he chose me and i him in return. everything flows but is never pushed. talked about but never argued. there have been times he has seemingly forgotten he was no longer single but the night ended with him going home with me with few bounderies being pushed. i told him what i didn’t appreciate and he has not repeated it. i think the hardest thing for him is going from being a ‘player’ for 3 years to being in a commited relationship not only with a woman but also a single mom of two young children. his children are 15 and 16- mine are 5 and 2. he’s done his time and now will choose to do it again with another person’s children. i understand the difficult decision this has to be but again- he CHOSE to make it and i CHOOSE to make it as easy as possible. i believe that the most important thing to making these things work is open communication with the upmost honesty. blunt but tactful. i also believe that the fact that we each love ourselves makes it an easier transition to love each other. kudos on calling out the games also. games belong in boxes on shelves- not in a relationship. thanks again- i truely enjoyed reading this.