Are You a Princess Trapped in a Dungeon of No Love

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Sometimes, we’re so deep inside a prison of habit and experience and fear and what we’ve been told and taught, we can’t see the “forest for the trees” – or in Mia’s case – the “dungeon for the chemistry”:

“Rori, I am in a glitch…I was married 25 yrs most bad to an evil man but the father of my kids. I stayed for them not me. I met someone, he was kind and all I hoped for but after meeting and starting a relationship that turned sexual, I found he lied he was married, he swore he would leave her we did this 3 yrs, and in that time I lost 3 pregnancies, I loved him, we had issues but I knew we could over come yet it was Long distance hour by plane he can afford it, but didn’t, I found he was cheating on me not once but twice he swore he would stop I took him back, this last time I refused, he told his wife about this other woman and I wonder will he cheat on her eventually she seems controlling.

I dunno but he just kept hurting me yet wanted to remain my friend. I now have found another but I fear the hurt of my first marriage and that he will take advantage of me because he although is sweet and loving I fear he will cheat, it is dumb as he never gave me cause to think this but in my mind I think that the 1 hour away man may come back to me…should I even hope or is he a dog that will always have his tricks?

Should I move on and try to be happy with this new prince in the kingdom? How do I know I am doing the right thing? He too is married but not living with the wife and will divorce for me…he stopped wearing a ring…my baby loves him! If we have a substantial age difference does it matter? should a woman be older or younger than a man? Help help help….
Do let me know.
ps…do I warn the other woman about the guy and his ways that he told me to keep from her? Or stay out of it? Advise please this never happens to me!”

My answer:

Mia, Welcome, and It’s hard to know where to start here. I’m so glad you found us…

Your sense of reality, and what relationship is, how men are supposed to be, what love is …are all skewed and tainted and wrong and are along classic lines of story, myth and tragedy.

A kind man lies. An evil man gets to keep you for 25 years.

You are a princess in a dungeon. And here you are, in that dungeon, in chains, and the questions you are asking are all about the color of the walls.

I want you to ask how to get OUT of the dungeon – not redecorate!

You fear each man will be like the last because an “evil man who lies and hurts” is the only kind of man you can see, with your subconscious eyes.

The dungeon is all you know.

So – how do we get you out of the dungeon when you clearly WANT to be there?

1. Get your mind off of men. ANY man. Just stop thinking about men. Period.

Princesses in dungeons are notoriously boy-crazy – they let themselves be enslaved so that the cameeras can roll and the Prince will be called to action…

2. Get your mind on something else. Something you feel passionate about – and let’s start with a list:

What is it you like that has nothing to do with a man?

Write out at least 50 things, and then get out your calendar and start researching those things in your area – and book them in your calendar and get out and DO them!

3. Exercise. Eat well (no sugar, no refined bread). Dress yourself for your pleasure, not your convenience.

4. Write a vision of your life as you want it – 3 months from now, 6 months from now, 1 year from now, 5 years from now – and DON’T even INCLUDE a MAN.

Think about travel, a home, money, children – whatever you want.

5. Now – add the relationship you want to the vision.  NO SPECIFIC MAN ALLOWED.

6.  Now …every time you’re tempted to create a romantic drama in your head – stop yourself, and go back to number one here.

I’m being really tough here, because I’m angling for the fairy godmother part in your story.

And fairy godmothers are tough.

They love you unconditionally, and will not rest until YOU love YOURSELF unconditionally, too. That’s how we free you. That’s how YOU free you – One day you just see the chains aren’t real, and you just walk out of the dungeon and into the arms of your life…

Create your love story as you go along, from moment to moment, from good feeling to good feeling.  Fill your OWN heart with love, shower it on yourself and everyone around you.

Don’t ever, ever, ever let any man write your story for you.

A man may be the “Prince” in your story, but he’s not the author, he’s not the filmmaker, he’s not the director.  You are all those parts. YOU are the visionary and the producer and the crew.

See if you can see it this way, and let me know what happens.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Callista on April 26, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    I love this! <3 Thanks, Rori… I could use this even though I don't think I'm in a prison… but then again maybe I am…

  2.  #2Lucy on April 26, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Can’t see the “dungeon for the chemistry.”

    Wow. That’s powerful.

  3.  #3Emily on April 26, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    I love that, “and one day you just see the chains aren’t real”…very insightful. I’ve been feeling like I am too shy for a real relationship, and it simply is not real. Those chains aren’t real at all. Thanks Rori.

  4.  #4Simply Shannon on April 26, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I wrote this once (somewhere on Rori’s blog actually) and it fits perfectly. This story was/is just like me. I am the girl whose life has been so focused on finding a man that I let go of so many other things in my life. No wonder I felt so bored…

    – – – – – – – –
    The empty hole in the middle of my soul craves to be filled.
    With anything.
    Anything is better than nothing.

    For now I’ll forget how painful it feels to use rocks instead of sand to fill the hole.
    I’ll choose to believe that one day the rocks will become sand.
    Anything’s possible.

    I’ve only ever had rocks to fill the hole anyway.
    How do I know that sand is better than rocks?
    Maybe I don’t even like sand.
    Rocks are better than sand.

    Rock by rock, I fill the hole in my soul so deep and so heavy that I pretend the hole is NOT EVEN THERE.

    But the hole never gets filled.

    And now I have all these rocks.

    They’re so heavy and the hole is so deep.

    It’s just easier to leave the rocks for now.

    Surely a man will come along and lift those rocks out for me.

    Yeah, I’ll just wait for a knight in shining armor to save me.

    And so the fairy tale began…

  5.  #5Daria on April 26, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    not thinking about a man:

    i found my bladder neurolymphatic reflexes! they are sore and im rubbing them and i can FEEL the effect!


    im drinking all cranberry juice that seems to have helped some…

    and the parsley tea ive been downing has made hte entrance to my nani very lubricated (and not irritated) – YES! i was drinking it for my period but that doesnt seem to be coming… instead this … which is GREAT cuz i was worried about it always getting irritated and sparking off more symptoms

    i willl be healthy! i will have balanced clear yellow pee

    wooo hooooo

    straight up now tell me is it gonan be you and me together… oh oh oh… or are you just having funnn

    does a spin!

    i meditated

    i cried with my feelings!

    i felt open

    im doing stretches!!!


  6.  #6Daria on April 26, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Slowly but surely Sharon picked up a rock. it was heavy. she sighed. the sun was hot on the top of her head. she took the stone out and put it aside the hole. there are so many more stones she thought. i feel horrible.

    she cried.

    she lay in the sand. she looked at the hole in the sand. too many stones she thought.

    feeling sad she left.

    the next day it rained.

    sharon came back.

    the hole was wet. the air was cool. sharon picked up a stone, and another. this felt easier. she picked up another. ufff. smushy . wet. her hands were cold. pushing herself, she picked up antoher stone. now she felt tired. too tired.

    there were 5 stones out of the hole

    the rest waited patiently, like gold in a bucket.

    the next day, sharon came back. the sun was shining again. she picked up 5 more stones. the hole was halfway empty now.


    half way was a long way.
    sharon was impatient.

    she went home feeling excited and hopeless and frustrated

    the next day she came back. she reached for a stone. she reached for the next.

    slipping, her leg crumbled the wall of the hole!

    ouch!! her knee and foot scraped badly hitting on the rock in the now deep hole

    pain ripped thru her OUCH. she grabbed at her foot. blood gushed and dripped… sand had fallen in …

    hobbling she left the hole, in horrible pain

    she didnt come back for many days

    gingerly she returned, feeling resistant

    ill just look at the hole, she told herself

    i hate that hole. her leg was bandaged and had started scabbing over

    she looked at the rocks. she had no desire to pull another one out. ill just leave the rocks she thought.

    she picked up some sand and let it flow thru her fingers over the hole

    in the rock bottomed hole, the sand found it’s way around the crevices

    it was gone

    thought sharon

    she felt excited

    she took more sand
    and dropped it in the hole

    drizzling it around the rocks

    the sand started filling in the gaps
    the rocks made the sands job easier.

    there was a lot less sand to fill in, what with the rocks filled in there!!!

    quickly, sharon drizzled sand

    powered by her excitement and joy, the hole filled quikcly

    by the time the sun had set, Sharon was sweaty and tired, and felt better than she had ever felt

    a quiet calm filled her with accomplishment

    the hole was filled

    what was there to do now?

    sharon did not know

    she went home feeling happy and full

  7.  #7Daria on April 26, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    lol sorry for abusing you so Shannon.

    we can rewrite and make it much easier hehe

    that was an off the cuff first version

  8.  #8Daria on April 26, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    um i called you Sharon whoa!! typo or universe glitch ??

  9.  #9Trapped princess on April 26, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    aww Rori I feel trapped too. does it mean close our heart to all men? and forget about them until we divorced ? I know I’ll be out of this misery dungeon only if I leave my husband completely.

    I want to be my own Hero, sometimes i feel tempted to my physical needs such as sex, company etc. I feel guilty for not allowing myself to spread my life even bigger.

    I hate my husband. eew I feel so much trapped. I feel so scared of him. even he has been treating me very well this past few years. but remember back how he was abusing me. I feel hurt. I cant find myself open to him anymore, not any chance. this wound so much deeper inside. I tried but my heart tells me she will never open for him anymore.

    Is it wrong to have a dream with a man that we feel special to him? This man is the mirror of me. we both are growing now. I can feel he is. my inner child tells me he can only reach me when I am out of this dungeon by myself and him too. lets meet up outside in the fairy land. Wait for me if You are the one.

    now let me fill myself with love, care, and freedom. who’s waiting for me outside this dungeon is “mine”. will you be free when I am?

    Thanks Rori. Love you always..

  10.  #10softy on April 26, 2010 at 11:19 pm


    is there any way to remove our email address on the bar to post comment? thanks a lot in advance

  11.  #11Linda on April 27, 2010 at 4:07 am

    I have been working on getting out of my dungeon for five years. At times I have focused on a man, chemistry. At time I have focused on ME. I have been treated like a princess, pursued, lied to, cheated on. You name it. I have experienced it. It covers the gammet. (by the same and or multiple men). Sometimes I dont just dont know what to believe or feel is real. I am finding that nothing is guaranteed. A man says one thing today and means it… tomorrow he doesnt. One man said that he was not like all the rest and that jerk guys make it hard on a man like him. LOL He pursued me heavy and began to get my attention and then poof! weird!

    Sometimes I think I was better off in my marriage. At least he did not lie and cheat and paid the bills. I knew he was gonna come home and what to expect.
    NOPE…. that was a dungeon too. Just a predictable one, well defined, empty dungeon too.

    In my efforts to be free and make my way…. I have hit so many dead ends. I feel tired. I am not focused on a man…. to be honest right now I dont even want to date! My my!!! the baggage ladden men that seem to cross my path!

    I woke up with the Bionce song.”All the single ladies”
    THe phrase.. “if you liked it than you shoulda put a ring on it”….

    I guess it is a good thing I am not CD’ing right now, my vibe is…. “what the hell is your name and I can name your game in 2 dates” Sheesh… I will crawl back in to my silence now.


  12.  #12cin on April 27, 2010 at 4:09 am

    I am sad today. My single friends, who don’t even know eachother are following in the same pattern. They want to man bash all the time. Rori says to tell them that I don’t want to go there. They get offended it seems. We aren’t even talking at this point and it gets lonely for me at times. They need to vent and it’s all to depressing. I want to believe there are good guys aren’t there just like Rori says.

  13.  #13Tina on April 27, 2010 at 4:19 am

    Good morning Linda and Sirens 🙂 I was out at a couple of meetings in the last few days and it did feel like dates. Towards the end of one meeting, we talked about our personal relationships and had cookies and coffee hm. I’m not dating but I use all my tools with men I come in contact with 🙂

  14.  #14Tina on April 27, 2010 at 4:26 am

    One man in particular, he was coming at me with an agressive tone, I leaned back, waaaaay back haha. He started to mention this other persons name and how the “poor guy” is being misunderstood lol, I said yeah, I know how that feels, I said, I feel shy around strangers and that can be mistaken for arrogance, he cocked his head to the side? I smiled and walked out whew tough crowd!

  15.  #15Tina on April 27, 2010 at 4:37 am

    lol @redecorating the dungeon.

  16.  #16dawn on April 27, 2010 at 6:17 am

    Wow, I feel stubborn or stupid sometimes. I feel tired rowing my own boat , but its MY boat. i feel against the current at times. i feel the rapids below me ready to suck me in. i stay afloat . i feel rocks too. i feel them under my boat . knocking , tapping are you still there ? i feel smiley, happy to still be floating. i have two oars with me but only one is being used . seems a waste . i will keep that oar with me . i will nurture it and care for it . i will keep it beautiful for when my captain shows up. i want it to sparkle and shine under the moonlight so he can clearly see it. i will offer it to him, like my heart. i will let him in my boat to row with me. i want unity. i want a partner. i feel lonely and scared. i feel ” what if” stuck in my throat. i feel love underneath pushing up to the light. i feel hungry for more. i feel powerful but hands tied behind me. i feel teary. i feel my tears like a river connecting to lake where i row. i feel on my way to the ocean , to a bigger boat. i feel that bigger boat may have a bigger engine. i feel happy to know that i wont be rowing alone forever. ifeel better.

  17.  #17TP on April 27, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Hi Linda thanks so much for sharing, Hope you don’t mind I ask you this

    May I know what was your instinct telling you when you were with the guy that pursued you hard. or did you sense something’s wrong in halfway or just followed by the book of good guy material and stick to it.

    Sorry for asking this. I feel curious, I want to leave my husband. he has a good husband material. support me financially etc. but somehow my instinct telling me i shouldn’t be here. he’s not the one. ok he was an abusing man. but now he has changed totally. what do I expect more from him? I just feel not right.

    Rori should we follow our guts and instinct or stick to the rule. sometimes they don’t come together. like for example there are two guys are chasing me. Both are good. just Guy A is showering me more gifts and pay more attention etc than Guy B. but my instinct telling me to choose Guy B.

    I remember (if I am not wrong) one of Tinque’s post, she said on first date her man was talking a lot about himself. but her instinct was telling her to give this guy a chance.

    I am much more to follow my heart. maybe seeking approval here?
    My apologies If I said something’s wrong here.

    Thanks so much

  18.  #18softy on April 27, 2010 at 7:06 am

    subscribing 😀

  19.  #19Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 7:24 am

    I love the feeling of clean hands. I love the sweet stay-in-your-throat taste of pumpkin spice latte. I am enjoying my new silent weapon…you wonderful women! Up til now, Rori has been my silent weapon, but I had no one to share my new feeling discoveries with. Now I have a whole island of sirens to play with, and I feel so bubbly like a fast-running stream.

    I felt happy and girly all last night and I feel my moods lift when I read the delightful, adorable things you foxy women say! Thank you all for your support, either directly or just by being feminine you expressing yourselves!

    Yes, TW, and the rest of you, I definitely welcome support to lean back, because I have been WAY to over-functioning with Ryan, and how I wish I had had the strength to apply Rori’s principles last April, when I first started listening to her.

    For Mia, the one who wrote the letter leading this post, my Mom stayed in an unhappy marriage 25 years for the sake of her children. It didn’t help me, and it destroyed her identity.

    As for age differences, no, they don’t matter! I was in a relationship with a man 13 yrs older and one with a man 15 years younger. The younger one said, “When people ask me how old I am, I’m going to answer, “I don’t remember!” I loved that!

    I have known and known of several couples with age differences, and they had beautiful marriages! One was Derek Prince (, who married a woman 25 yrs older or so! They had 30 happy years, and once in an interview, he was asked if he desired her physically. He said yes! Love is deeper than skin, even wrinkled skin!

    A couple days ago, Daria and maybe a couple other sirens asked about dating yourself! I’ve done that for years, since many of my relationships were unfortunately with men in prison. I find it very enjoyable to treat myself out to a restaurant or a movie. I am well past any hangups about doing it alone. So what? I typically take a pad of paper and journal or plan goals. Or I just look around the restaurant/theater/what-have-you and just sense…myself and others. Sometimes dating myself is girl’s night in! It will be pamper myself night with coloring my hair, de-hairing my face, shaving, giving myself a pedicure, and then end it by cuddling with my two German Shepherds while watching a movie in bed.

    Another thing I’ve done for years is buy myself sexy underclothes and nightgowns. A number of times, my Mom or friends have asked, “Why do you spend money on that when you don’t have a man to enjoy them with?” I say, “I enjoy them! They make ME feel more feminine and enjoy my body, and I’m worth it!”

  20.  #20Simply Shannon on April 27, 2010 at 7:34 am

    Haha! Daria! “Sharon”? Hmmm… interesting. 🙂

    I liked the story a lot and that’s exactly what I’m doing. The only part that I felt resistant about is the leaving in the rocks and filling them with sand. My brain said “Nope, I want those rocks cleared up. I want those rocks out.” I feel tired of this baggage I carry. It’s like a freakin’ badge of honor or something, but I don’t want it. So maybe that’s it, I need to feel okay with the little bits of rocks that get left because those memories, those experiences are what make up “me”. And I can fill in with sand… beautiful, silky, light, but gritty sand, around those rocks.

  21.  #21Simply Shannon on April 27, 2010 at 7:35 am

    I feel apathy. I also feel fear. My dad is in the hospital, which is probably why I feel apathy about this whole relationship thing.

    Has anyone else noticed that once you get out of the obsessive cycle (where all you do is think about what that boy is doing) that you feel really bored?

    My goodness, how boring my life feels right now. I don’t want to date or obsess about a man. I just want to have fun. I want to learn about myself, about God, about my friends and family in a whole new way. I want to do stuff in my community, my church, define my life bigger than a relationship.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I want companionship and sex and commitment. I just don’t want to do so much work to get it. And I don’t want the hassle of fretting about every little step I make. Is that right? Does that sound okay? Will he get mad and run away? Ugh. Seriously OVER IT.

    Rant over.

  22.  #22EarthDancer on April 27, 2010 at 7:45 am

    “There were 5 stones out of the hole

    the rest waited patiently, like gold in a bucket.”

    Daria, I LOVE your imagery! I feel jealous of your way with words :), and I feel, with practice, I can get in touch with my feminine side again xoxo It’s so funny, when reading Simply Shannon’s poem I originally thought of filling up the ‘cracks’ between the rocks with sand made up of thousands of kindnesses received through Circular Dating …

    Brenda, I’m loving your posts, too; I feel we’re both in kindergarten again together and we’ll get this! xoxo

    Simply Shannon: AWESOME! your words capture our feelings so well – the despair – the hope – the subconscious belief it won’t happen for us xoxo

    Love & hugs to all of you!

  23.  #23Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Hi Simply Shannon!

    I relate to a lot of what you said. I LOVED your poem about the hole filled with rocks. Rocks for me take the form of food. 🙁 I am sadly overweight, and the weight is a heavy burden that has cost me a lot. I am trying to get with it in a new weight loss program thru my chiropractor, but I am still bingeing from time to time in my pain and emptiness as I fight myself, sometimes minute-by-minute, to not contact Ryan. I had lost the weight and kept it off for 6 glorious years, when I wore a size 12 and looked like a model. Then I got in an unhealthy relationship and returned to my unhealthy eating habits to cope with the pain. I am determined to be back in a 12, and I kept an outfit from then to wear again, and to motivate me. I have 150 lbs to lose, and it is hard.

    Once Ryan said, “A woman who is well-loved will be youthful well into her older years.” I said back to him, “A woman who is well-loved will be slender well into her older years.”

    For many years, I saw it as impossible to lose weight if I weren’t loved. And it seemed impossible to find love if I was fat. Ryan accepted me overweight, to a great extent, and that meant a lot. I lost 35 lbs the first half of 2009 while I was with him. Then I regained it all the last half of 2009 after he hurt me and hurt me and hurt me. 🙁

    Now I know that MY love for myself is enuff. I love me, and so I can be slender.

    Back to your last post, you said you want to do stuff in your community, church, define your life bigger than a relationship. That’s fantastic! Did you hear “Commitment Blueprint”? That’s right on! The one speaker talked about P.O.P. – defining and establishing YOUR purpose on the planet!

    What’s really cool is that can, and should, in my opinion, be a part of your P.O.P.! I am all about helping people and I am in love with Jesus, so church life is very important to me, and I want a man who believes the same way. My therapist made an excellent suggestion! She encouraged me to get out to meetings and conferences outside my church, both to grow spiritually, AND to meet new men! Then I’d be targeting the kind of men I want to meet! So go for it!

  24.  #24Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 8:13 am

    EarthDancer! What a beautiful name! Yes, I am in kindergarten in many ways! Baby steps, I keep reminding myself. Thanks for the kudos! It’s like I get it when I hear Rori. Then when I’m in the moment with Ryan, especially, I just jump right back into overfunctioning.

    What’s challenging is he is passive-aggressive. Like, he’s not a girly-boy….he WANTS to row. But he leans back so far that I fall all over him when I over-function, and then he disappears for a while! LOL! I know, I know!!! So when I try to lean back, Mr. Passive-Aggressive continues to lean back for a LONG time, usually longer than Ms. Over-Function can stand to lean back! Yet each time I do, I find positive results. I spose I ought to give an example so that is more meaningful.

    Here, let’s take basic conversation:
    “Hi Ryan, how are you?”
    “Good, how are you?”
    “Oh, I’m feeling so relaxed cuddling on the sofa with Ariel (my dog). What’s going on?”
    “Not much. What’s going on with you?”
    “I feel so happy that my contract at my job got extended!”
    I go silent, leaning back.
    He remains silent. I’ve given two feeling messages, and the reciprocation I’m waiting for rarely comes.
    “Well, it’s getting late.”
    “All right, good night!”

    This represents a typical phone conversation or text conversation with him. When we used to spend hours on end together, he would ask me deep questions, WANTING to know my heart and feelings, which felt delicious! Yet almost every time I returned his probing questions, he gave a non-answer that rarely revealed himself. He is THE most self-protective, distrustful person I’ve ever known, almost totally closed. And that’s coming from a woman who has corresponded with men in prison for 21 years, men who are known for being distrustful.

    I welcome any suggestions for how to lean back in such a way that he actually opens up. I have been acquainted with him for 2.5 yrs now, and we have had at least a friendship for 1.5 yrs. So he has every reason to trust me, and I have totally proven myself trustworthy and shown him I am in his corner.

  25.  #25Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Nobody to play with. 🙁 **Pouts**

  26.  #26TW on April 27, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Since all of you are posting on this post now I will just post here. You remember yesterday I post a portion of something that I wrote. I am finishing it right now and will post it to you shortly.

  27.  #27EarthDancer on April 27, 2010 at 8:52 am

    HI Brenda; I’ve found, if after I give a feeling message I ask “what about you” or “what do you think” that I get a better response ..; try it…AND I don’t know who called whom (he should be initiating), but be SILENT and let him ask the first question (Rori would say BE the Sea, FLOAT) xoxo

  28.  #28EarthDancer on April 27, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Brenda P.S. You don’t have to prove you are in his corner, is HE in YOURS??!

  29.  #29Rori Raye on April 27, 2010 at 9:01 am

    trapped princess, welcome, and I’m so sorry you feel so trapped and awful. Circular Dating means interacting with men – and that NEVER stops – even after marriage. Men are everywhere – behind counters at the market and in line at the coffee house. Untrap yourself. I hope you can find the strength to slowly get a new and bigger life. Love, Rori

  30.  #30Siena on April 27, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Brenda, reading your posts makes me feel comforted and warm. You have a genuineness and steadyness about you that is very lovely!

    Have you considered saying to Ryan, “I feel sad. I miss the deep conversations and connection we used to share. It would feel so great to get that back. What do you think?”

    Here’s what I’m getting from your post… you ARE saying your feelings, but not the deep ones. Why not take a chance and tell him how you REALLY feel?

    But only if he contacts you and asks you how you are…

  31.  #31Rori Raye on April 27, 2010 at 9:03 am

    cin, Welcome – and find some new friends. Start here – with the wonderful women in this community – and then get out in the world and Circular Date men AND women!!! It works for friendship, too!! Try non-denomenational, multi-cultural, spiritual churches like Unitarian, Religious Science, Unity, Agape…..Love, Rori

  32.  #32Rori Raye on April 27, 2010 at 9:06 am

    TP – Welcome, and though I want to support you expanding and growing and Circular Dating – I do not like actual “dating” other men when you are married. If you are not independent enough to leave your husband, then that’s where your work is – to get so independent that you don’t NEED any man at all. Then you get to go choose. Love, Rori

  33.  #33TW on April 27, 2010 at 9:07 am

    Ok ladies- I am finally done. I cried as I wrote this… It feels great to let it all go though… Some of you read the first portion yesterday but I post it again to make the second portion make sense.

    Today, I feel empty. I feel like working things out and then I feel like walking away. I do not feel sadness or despair. I have embraced the most beautiful part of me, my heart and that has allowed my face to light up with a love that no one other than myself will ever know. I am full of love and life and laughter. I am a good mother, friend, confidant, woman of God, and will soon be a good wife to a man that has the chance to taste the sweet nectar of my soul. I feel open and free today and I know that I am beautiful and kind and ready and willing to be loved. I have let my past escape my very being and opened up a space that can only be filled by the family that I build within. I am ready to truly love and be loved in return by my man that not only sees my exterior beauty but realizes the beauty within and can feel my love and experience it on all levels. He feeds my soul with beautiful words and actions that remind me daily that I am the one and that his soul has met and intertwined with mine as God placed Adam with Eve. I want to be his rib and allow him to lead and guide me through this thing called life. I want love….

    We had each other at hello but are we destined to say goodbye? I remember the first kiss, the one little girls dream about that take their breath away. I felt his touch on my face as he pulled me closer to place his lips upon mine. My body trembled from his touch in anticipation of what was to follow. My heart was beating so fast that it no longer seemed to be a part of my body. We made love in a way that I never have before. My body against his, my mind against his, and my heart beating against his. I was stimulated mentally, physically, and emotionally. Would this be the man that would capture my heart? Only time would tell. I asked him to lead and allow me to follow. For a while he lead me and held my hand as he guided me on our path and then one day he began to run and his hand slipped out of mine. He did not look back to find me. I can no longer see him. I feel lost. Will he slow down and reach out his hand to pull me along again and start the journey all over? I walk at a slow and steady pace, never running to try to keep up. I am embracing me and all the things that make me the beautiful woman that I am. The relationship of old is dead and I have buried it along the dreary path. As I walk along, God is giving birth to a new one. My path is now lined with beautiful flowers. I can now see you again. I can only accept your hand if you are willing to extend it to me. Than we shall walk on the new path together, hand in hand, one never leaving the other because I am now the rib that was taken from the man that loves me and God has again given me a new breath of life.

  34.  #34diamond on April 27, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Brenda, my husband is like that too, very in his female energy. It’s so hard for me to lean back. When I use feeling messages he starts doing it too and I get all confused. 🙁

  35.  #35Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Siena, Thank you! I really appreciate your encouragement! And your suggestions!

    I just included a short blurb there from a relationship that spans months-worth of hours! I ROUTINELY ask, “What do you think?” His typical response? “I don’t know.” or “I’m not sure.” Almost totally noncommittal! A woman in her right heart would have kicked him to the curb long ago! Yet there is SUCH depth and richness in him, and I see him as a POTENTIAL fantastic man. I have never connected more deeply with another human being, and he has a genius level of both intelligence and sensitivity, beneath his thick walls and smokescreens.

    I am not negating what you suggested…matter of fact, I copied and pasted it for further reflection and use. I am saying I have tried Rori’s tools. You suggested, “I feel sad. I miss the deep conversations and connection we used to share. It would feel so great to get that back. What do you think?” I gave an entire power speech like that, more than once. The time I remember most clearly was a year ago, when I was on a 1.5 week vacation in North Carolina (I live in Pennsylvania). I had invited him, but of course he didn’t go. I missed him unbearably while I was gone. It was when I was a brand new disciple of Rori, and it was my first time leaning back, after he didn’t even say good-bye when I left on my trip. I traveled on a Tuesday, and it took until Saturday for him to call me…WITH CONCERN! LOL! Made me so happy! And I even waited two hours to call him back…because I was getting a pedicure, manicure, and legs waxed! Hehe!

    During my trip, a few days later, he called again, and I gave him a full power speech, with pauses, that said basically what you suggested. After just “Yeah” during my pauses, I ended my speech with, “What can we do about it?” His response? “I don’t know.”

    I will say I think I had a little payoff when I arrived home and he gave me an especially long, warm hug, rubbing my back. I could sense he had missed me, and that felt so treasurey! 🙂

    So far, the only thing I know that works at least in a limited way is allowing all shame and blame go, while connecting with him emotionally. Then he might open up for a sentence or two, if I get real quiet and get in his deep vibe.

    Still water runs deep, and that’s Ryan. He had a traumatic abuse at age 15, and it has virtually ruined him, whatever it was.

    I appreciate any further feedback or suggestions!


    I will say

  36.  #36Siena on April 27, 2010 at 9:22 am

    okay, I feel I must let M go. He’s been riding on my horse, and I’ve been at a slow canter, and I really want to get back up to a gallop, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t seem to get my horse to pick up the gallop with the extra weight. So he needs to get off.

    Sigh, I feel sad. I wanted him to stay for a while. Perhaps he was just the messenger who was supposed to show me the way to Siren Island. Now that I’m here, he can get off my horse and go his own way.

    [Waving goodbye]. Thank you M!

    I ignored him for the first couple of months that he pursued me. I was hung up on someone else. Then, when I finally let him take me out, it was the best date I’ve ever been on. Later, discovered all the weird coincidences that we had in common – like, for instance, we were both reading the same two books at the same time.

    Then, as we started to open up to each other, we realized that we had very similar life paths. I mean – spookingly similar. We gave the EXACT same answer to the person who set us up when she asked what our type was. Our history with our businesses was almost exactly the same (although we work in different industries). There were so many things like that. Messages that I ignored at first, but that slowly prompted me to open up to him and the relationship and trust it.

    At one point, at the height of happiness, I exclaimed to him, “does such a man exist!?” I just had never encountered a man like him ever before!

    But then – poof. He was gone, without even a real explanation. “I just can’t do this”, he said. “What?” I said, thinking that he meant go out that night, because I was so relaxed and happy that I didn’t even think that he could be breaking up with me. “This relationship. I can’t do it.” “Okay” was all I could say because I was in shock.

    And that’s it. I haven’t really heard from him since. I don’t even know what happened.

    I don’t need a fairy tale. I need the real thing. And I don’t want to be stuck on him or in the past.

    So I’ll let him off my horse. Goodbye M, thank you so much! It was my heart that was talking when I marveled whether such a man existed. And you showed me that there IS such a man. And if there’s one, there must be another. I need to find the one who doesn’t want off my horse, unless it’s just to ride his own horse right next to mine. I love you – thank you!

  37.  #37Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 9:36 am

    TW – What a beautiful piece of writing, and a beautiful expression of your infinitely-valuable being! Thank you for sharing!

    Diamond – Thanks! I don’t know if I would call Ryan’s leaning back being in his feminine energy…well maybe. But he is VERY controlling with it, totally passive aggressive in the fullest meaning of the term. If I told you some of the ways he’s psychologically tormented me you’d be shocked. Even when I ASK him to tell me what bothers him in the relationship directly, he says okay then just goes on telling me in such a hurtful, nonverbal way. This sad saying applies to him:

    Better to break my heart with the truth than to shred it with lies.

    He will lead me on then cut me off at the knees, over and over. I don’t know, since he refuses to talk about it. But my perception is that he ENCOURAGES me to follow his lead, then HURTS me when I do, and I just assume it is because he sees me as taking the lead. Realllly complex to explain, cuz it’s so subtle and he never admits it. Like he will extend love to me, caressing, for example. When I reciprocate and respond to his love, he will say, “I told you, it’s just a friendship. I’m not in love with you.” He has made a pattern out of doing that and telling me that. I feel so confused. We’ve taken a break for the most part since November, and I feel we are starting to come to a mutual understanding. He actually acknowledged he regrets his mistakes, which felt a lot more genuine than his past apologies.

  38.  #38Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Siena, oh, I’m so sad with you. That is so horribly painful when a man gives no warning that he is not as into the relationship as you. He is a fool, and you are a lovely lady, both inside and out!

  39.  #39Siena on April 27, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Thank you Brenda. I’ve thought about that a LOT since M left (me being more in the relationship than he). And I just don’t think it’s true. HE was rowing the boat, and I was in it. He was leading the dance. There were some times when I would try to take over, but he really wouldn’t have it. So I would go back to letting him row.

    Up until the day before he left, I really felt like the one being pursued.

    But what I did wrong was that I was the girlfriend. I stopped CDing because he asked me to.

    I know it looks like it (and this is not a slight on you at all), but I don’t think it’s fair to say I was more in the relationship than he was. He was leading me into it the whole way.

    But I forgive him. I’m not stuck in the past. I feel grateful that he was in my life.

  40.  #40Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Siena, that’s all the more hurtful, and wrong, that he gave no clue whatsoever.

    I spose it’s not sireny to ask, but my question is always WHY? WHY? WHY WHY WHY? I am such a toddler in this relationship thing in many ways that I often ask ex-men why, because I want to learn from my mistakes. I am not at all suggesting you do this. I am just saying that would be my inclination if I were you and he had quit on me in the middle of rowing in the middle of the lagoon. I’ve learned by error and error. I’ve made mistakes in relationships that Rori never even thot of! LOL! But that’s me. Sounds like you really have your act together and know just what to say and do. I’m getting there, step by step.

    I don’t think I’m thru with Ryan, but I am grateful he was in my life, too, even tho he hurt me far more deeply than any other human being.

    EarthDancer – I really like that about BE the sea…float! I have asked him that directly, “When are YOU going to prove YOUR love for ME?” He ignored me. Just way too many walls to let anyone in until he had proven beyond proof that the other person wouldn’t hurt him. But, yes, that NEEDS to happen if this relationship is ever to move forward. The way I look at it, he’s like an abused dog that will bite the hand that feeds him, even if he is starving. I can’t expect that dog to snuggle with me until he’s had a lot of healing inside to recognize me as someone who won’t abuse him.

    It’s 1.5 yrs into the relationship now, and I’ve proven that. He agreed to see me later this week, for the first time in a couple months. I will see. It’s time for the trust and love to move the other direction.

  41.  #41Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:10 am


    I’m gonna go way out on a limb here, and say something I wouldn’t normally say…

    If I were in a relationship with someone like Ryan, I would wonder why I hired this guy to hurt me again and again. Knowing that he only feels friendship for me, and that many encounters with him end up with me feeling hurt, I would look deep inside and wonder why I need to feel hurt in order to feel loved.

    I would wonder if – in trying to help him heal his abused past – I was ignoring my own.

    Love and hugs to you!


  42.  #42Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Oh, and Bren, I DID ask why! I did the whole ‘fall to my knees’ tool asking that question. The answer would lead me off my bridge, so I don’t really need to know it. If M ever wants to come back to me, he needs to meet me on my bridge, which is NOT the place where “why” in desperation is asked. The only place I could ask that question is in one of his pits. It’s HIS issue, not mine.

  43.  #43Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Siena, thank you for your candor. I NEED statements like this. And to reiterate that it follows 21 years of MOSTLY long distance relationships with men in prison. What’s wrong with this picture? Yes, I agree. A previous therapist said, “You have the self-esteem of a slug!” When I repeated it back to her the following week, she said, “Oh, my, I said that, didn’t I? I should be more careful what I say. I didn’t mean to hurt you with that!”
    I said, “No, I appreciate you telling me that! It helps me feel more objective about myself. And it’s true! It is something I’ve been working on and will continue.”
    She agreed, saying as the truth in my mind replaces the lies that have been reinforced in my heart, little by little, they will coincide.

    In short? I’m a messed up puppy! 🙂

    But I love this messed up puppy, and I’ve come a loooong way! In childhood, when I opened my mouth, most often I was either yelled at, criticized, ignored, or interrupted. After YEARS of that conditioning, I concluded that I am worthless, because your words are the expression of your inner self, your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs.

    Notice how long my posts are? Yes, lengthy. I have been SO bottled up inside for SO many years…I am longing to express myself. I hope I’m not overdoing it here. This IS very helpful to me.

    So along comes Ryan, who asks me probing questions and listens with deep attention and perception, for hours and hours a day, for months and months, day after day. I have never felt so listened to and so understood.

    With my background, that’s hard to walk away from. A few days ago, my ex, Kenny, hung up on me just because I was expressing feelings he didn’t agree with about another person. I so don’t need that.

    I’ve been reaching out on the internet for months, since October, and few men have followed thru with meeting me…my weight is a definite barrier. It’s hard to let Ryan go, even tho I am aware that it’s not a healthy relationship. He’s my muse. I’m in process. And I welcome your comments! 🙂

  44.  #44Megan on April 27, 2010 at 10:26 am

    I only had time to read the first few comments since I have to go to class but I just wanted to say that
    Shannon, that poem was so insightful and deep and you all simply amaze me with your talent
    and Daria, you are too funny.
    hope all you ladies have a good day 🙂

  45.  #45Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Bren, that feels wonderful! You really are wonderful! You can’t write too much on this forum – spam it girl! (I do!)

    Here’s what I predict will happen. As you write more and more here, and get genuine feedback and love from other Sirens, you’ll start to feel better and better about yourself, and men will start to show up. I know it happens this way. It has been this way for me. You should read some of my first posts. I used to get panic attacks when I even CONSIDERED writing or saying feeling messages. Now they roll off my tongue and fingertips.

    The first messengers (we women here at Siren Island) are the most gentle messengers. Later, once those messages have been heard and absorbed, “scarier” messengers (men) come along in greater and greater degrees until the Message (capital M) has been received, and then it’s time for Mr. Right to make his grand entrance.

    So spam this forum Siren! The faster you move through the gentle messages, the sooner Mr Right will show up!

  46.  #46TW on April 27, 2010 at 10:30 am


    I applaud you for taking him off of your horse and allowing yourself to feel beautiful and loving and not taking yourself off of your bridge. That is why I wrote post #33 because it was a way for me to just express what I WAS FEELING about my situation with my ex. Maybe you would like to write one…. It helped me out so much because as I wrote I cried and now I feel somewhat of a release because it is about my relationship and what I feel about him but it more about me and how great I feel I am and at the end it simply says that if he wants me back HE will have to slow down and wait for me. You will understand when you read it.

    Thank you. This was a hard thing to write you know but I am glad that I did. Writing helps release what you can not say sometimes. I too bottle things up inside so I can relate fully to you.

  47.  #47Megan on April 27, 2010 at 10:31 am


    just read your last comment.
    I wish I had something more sage-like to say
    but just wanted to reach out and give you a big hug.
    I feel that you’re a very strong woman and I feel you will make great strides now that you’re here
    lots of love xxxoo

  48.  #48Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 10:32 am

    #42 Siena – Good response! For me, it was not asked in desperation. It was asked in an honest attempt to understand the dynamics of the relationship and to learn from my mistakes. But we are not coming from the same place. You are right on for staying on your bridge.

    I tried to get the understanding from girlfriends and from my counselor, but they didn’t understand, because Ryan is extremely complex and has genius intelligence, no exaggeration. So I reasoned only he had the answer. And I am coming from a quite blank slate when it comes to understanding relationships, because I missed a whole bunch of social development and rites of passage that most people take for granted. I was so emotionally damaged that I just isolated myself in fields and woods with God and my dogs.

    So I’m working double time here with Rori’s tools to make up for lost time. I have to focus on how far I’ve come, not how far I have left to go. Twenty-five years ago, if you had seen me in the presence of an attractive man, you would have seen me blushing, head down, intentionally letting my hair cover my face…unable to make eye contact and hardly able to speak because my mind was so muddled with and paralyzed by fear. Even still, it is difficult for me to simply make eye contact with anyone, because I expect angry eyes, the eyes that looked at me in childhood.

  49.  #49Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:37 am

    TW, I read your post, and it felt beautiful to me! I have written how I feel about The Man in just the same way you did, (maybe not here, it might be in my personal journal). This morning was about me finally letting go of those feelings. So now what I feel about him is deep breath. I feel empty space. I don’t feel active feelings for him anymore, except gratitude. I feel grateful, and I feel smiley when I think of him. I feel letting go. I feel release. I feel calm seas and deep anchor.

  50.  #50Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Bren, I just want to give you a hug!! You are a beautiful soul!

  51.  #51TW on April 27, 2010 at 10:40 am


    That is what all this reading and posting is about. It is when you know you are ready to walk away you feel just what you expressed and I am so proud of you and somewhat jealous at the same time. I feel unsure as to what I want to do. I have referred to my bridge as my path but in my post I acknowledged the fact that I did not speed up for any reason and if he did I am still moving at my steady pace in an effort to feel my feelings just as you are today. You are in such a beautiful place right now. Just feeling and it is awesome.

  52.  #52Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Megan, Siena, and all you other beautiful sirens…

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your love and support!! Yes, I believe this will help me deeply in the long term. It’s not just needing to talk…it’s needing to talk with someone(s!) who understands and responds.

    I’ve highlighted mostly Ryan’s bad points. But he has many good points. Him minus his negative aspects equals one awesome dude! And he is in process, too. Again, it feels incomplete to describe someone you’ve known and loved for 1.5 yrs. I deeply value him. Sometimes he reminds me of the crocodiles Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter, loved and rescued. These were ugly, vicious animals who were literally trying to kill him! He’d just laugh and say, “He’s a naughty boy!”

    I’m a piece of work, and I’ve told Ryan he’s a piece of work, but he’s worth it!

    At least I can laugh about it now! Hard, painful incidents will make you stronger, if they don’t kill you! I’m not dead yet! LOL! 🙂

  53.  #53Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Wow, Siena. I feel surprised. This feels like a turning point. Is M the same person as “The Man”? I feel sad and happy for you at the same time. Hugs!

  54.  #54Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Ah, shit! Now I wanna cry and I have a meeting at work to go to…and Bill’s gonna be there! Please eye liner, don’t smudge! 🙂 I put it on using my pink, pearled princess compact mirror I got myself as a Christmas gift! 🙂 Thanks!

    Huggies right back at ya!

  55.  #55TW on April 27, 2010 at 10:54 am


    Go get em girl…

  56.  #56Siena on April 27, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Lucy, yes. M is The Man. This place I’m in feels weird. I’ve never been on this path before. When M and I broke up, I didn’t chase him… another thing I’ve never done before. I’ve always chased the ex or analyzed the end of the relationship with him until we were either sick of each other or ended up friends. And then inevitably sucked the life out of the friendship until neither of us had any energy for even friendship! And then went from that to not caring or to not liking him at all.

    This time, I stopped and turned around with a full heart. And I let him go then with a full heart. So now, when I finally let him off my horse, it’s a new place for me. I don’t know what to do in this place, except BE. And ask questions, and look for the answers.

    So I wonder, where does this path lead? Am I on the right path?

  57.  #57Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Brenda– Where in PA do you live? I live in the Susquehanna Valley area.

    Two things stand out to me about Ryan.

    1. Is it possible he has asperger’s?

    2. You mentioned that avoiding shame and blame in your conversations seems to be the most effective way of connecting with him… I have identified that as a crucial area for one of my guys as well, and it is something I always keep in mind when interacting with him. I am careful to always be accepting of him and loving him unconditionally. It’s almost like shame is a trigger for him, and he is ultra-sensitive to any hint of it. For example, your question to Ryan, ““When are YOU going to prove YOUR love for ME?” — I would not say anything like that to my guy because it really is sort of a shaming question. That’s why feeling messages are so good — they are not at all about the other person, so the other person feels very SAFE with us. (Of course, if we have shamed or blamed them in the past, it will take time and consistency to undo that.)

    I’m glad you’re here, Brenda. 🙂


  58.  #58Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Siena — Your comments made me think of this Pam Tillis song, “Let That Pony Run.” Even though it’s about divorce and other things, there is that common core of “letting go.”


  59.  #59Siena on April 27, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Lucy, that song is closer to the truth than you would ever know! But it feels so so sad and unfinished!! I’m not a poet, but I’m gonna finish it:

    So Mary found herself a new man
    And he was good and true and strong
    And at night he holds her close and says
    “I’ve been with you all along”

    This is a happy ending! It only feels sad because it’s letting something go that I’ve held on to. But I’m letting it go so that something better can come along.

    Thank you so much for sending that to me!

  60.  #60Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Hi Lucy, is that around Wilkes-Barre? If so, I’m about 2 hrs from there near Exton, about an hour west of Philadelphia.

    No, he doesn’t have asbergers. He has mental illness. I could say a lot more, but I don’t think it’s wise. I have Ryan-addiction. 🙂

    You’re right, I shouldn’t have said that to him about when are you going to prove your love to me. I said it about a year ago in a moment (one of many) of exasperation. I am getting more consistent with using feeling messages and I want, I don’t want, I need, I don’t need…

    Siena, I feel you are on xactly the right path! You sound very healthy in all you say! I love your word-picture of riding a horse! You’re a stronger woman than me! More power to ya!

  61.  #61Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Oh! I drive through Exton a couple times a month on my way to where my kids go to college! Cool!

    Hmmm. When I asked about asperger’s, I did have something else in mind too but wasn’t sure if I should say it…. NPD? (You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to! However, I recently found a good — hopeful and compassionate — online resource for NPD).


  62.  #62Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Hi again! Will you please tell me how you feel I ought to respond to my situation with Kenny, my ex? He’s the one I have known since 2000, and we were married three years long distance. We typically talk 15-30 minutes a day on the phone, since he is in prison. On Sunday, I was telling him how I felt and he sharply disagreed. Each time I tried to say, “I feel…” he interrupted me. He said, “I KNOW exactly how you feel!” I said, “If you know how I feel, then why do I feel misunderstood?” It went back and forth, with me asking him to please listen. When I tried to discuss my feelings and thoughts more, in an effort to get on the same page, he hung up on me.

    I sent him a brief letter Monday saying since he already knows my thoughts and feelings, I don’t need to write him. Then I wrote, “P.S. I called Ryan, because Ryan knows how to listen! P.P.S. You are seriously in the doghouse. When I hang up on you, it’s because I feel abused. You hung up on me because I was trying to express my feelings. I don’t like that at all.”

    I am playing with the idea of letting the silence hang in the air for a couple weeks. He hasn’t called back yet, but he will sometime before the end of this week, I’m sure. I also thought of picking up, but just staying silent other than hello, telling him he already knows how I feel so there’s no need for me to speak.

    Any other ideas? How do you feel about what I said?

  63.  #63Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Siena — Beautiful new verse for that song! <3

    I played the song a lot several years ago when my marriage ended (very similar situation to the song!) — the sadness of it helped me feel my own sadness that was buried under the anger…and it helped me learn to let go….and feel that there was hope and freedom for me somewhere….

    When I watched this before sending it to you just now, it made me cry — just like old times! haha. But much better now.

  64.  #64Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    BTW, I don’t have the maddening compulsion to contact him as I do Ryan, and as I used to with Kenny. He is playing on that, because he knows it. What he doesn’t get is that he lost my heart already. So I could let it hang for a month with little urge to contact him. In fact, I DID let it hang for 6 months last year when he was being mean. He told me that 6 months just about drove him nuts, and it was the hardest 6 months of his life. So if silence is the best method, I will. Ain’t no sweat off my back. He’s hurt me too many times for him to have that hold on me anymore.

  65.  #65J-Rock on April 27, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Hi, ladies… Well, I thought I was just being paranoid, but I’m 99% sure my man has been reading these conversations. Although I understand his curiosity, I feel violated and icky. I’m sorry I left those disks on my coffee table, but more than anything, I’m sorry I brought that energy to this forum. I am going to lurk for awhile and come back under another name when I feel safe. In the meantime, I will be focusing on myself and feeling. Much luck and love to all! <3

  66.  #66Siena on April 27, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I want to be completely truthful with myself, so I’ll write this here. There was something ‘off’ in the sexual chemistry between M and me. Sometimes when he held me, it didn’t feel right – it didn’t feel good. A couple of times when he was kissing me, I would feel something like anger rise up in me. But I never said anything, and just stuffed it down.

    He would follow me around from room to room, and sometimes I just wanted a quick kiss and he wanted more. And I would give more, and hold back my true feelings. This – I think – is why our sexual chemistry felt ‘off’. I believe it was me, not knowing how to express my feelings verbally and therefore not being open with him sexually. And feeling claustrophobic sometimes, but not wanting to lose a really great guy, so not saying anything.

    This is why I am here – to heal that part of my especially. I’ve hidden that part of me for so long, covered it up in shame, and it has cost me way too much.

    Which is why I kept him on my horse for so long. I wanted another chance with him to see if that part could be healed with him… because so many OTHER things were so good! I wanted to prove to him that I could be that woman he needed. I feel like a failure in that sense. And I feel prideful because I hate to think he’s out there wondering what’s wrong with me sexually. It feels really bad to think he’s thinking of me like that.

    So, I would like this healed. I don’t want to feel ‘sharp edges’ anymore when it comes to intimacy. I want to feel sharp softness and open and available sexually. Thank you!

  67.  #67Tara on April 27, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Reading all of your posts while I study for yet another final exam tomorrow. Siena and Brenda, what magnificent posts! You all inspire me!

    I’ve been keeping S on my horse for too long. What feels good to me now is to not text him for several days. He knows I’m having finals.

    Yesterday I texted him, “If you want to see me this week, just ask.”
    He texted back, “I haven’t looked at my schedule this week, but I will.”
    That was yesterday morning and I still haven’t heard from him.

    Yeah right he loves me sooo much he can go days and days with no contact and somehow not even notice that time has passed.

    Why does he even say he loves me?
    Why does he continue to pretend — or is it real?

    I contemplate quitting the (volunteer arts organization) board (he’s on it — we have meetings once a month and I turn to goo inside when I see him).
    I think about moving somewhere else for grad school.
    Today “our song” came up randomly on Windows Media Player while I was studying and I was overwhelmed with images of us in our glory days. I switched it to “Boom Boom Pow.”
    I think about purging every mP3 file that reminds me of him, but that would be ALLLLL of them.

    I went out and spoiled myself with some very nice and expensive skin care last night and felt great.
    I want to swim in my sea, and most of the time, I do.
    Today I’m frustrated that S has not contacted, but I’m not leaning forward. He has to do it.
    Meanwhile, J is sending me cute e-mails and H is spoiling me with nice gestures. What’s a princess to do?

  68.  #68Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Lucy, cool! I’d love to meet you sometime if you’d like! Are we allowed to contact each other outside of this? Not sure what NPD is, but I’m interested. Gotta roll…probably won’t be back online until tomorrow. Thanks!

  69.  #69Lucy on April 27, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    A couple months ago I posted a quote on facebook, “Love is like a butterfly that lands on our open palm. If we make a fist, we crush it.”

    And my 10 year old nephew commented, “I just don’t let it land on my palm in the first place.”

    His twin brother added, “Yeah, cuz if it starts to move it might scare ya and you close your hand and then you have bug guts all over your hand and you have to go in the house and wash them off.”

    Here’s to letting the butterfly land and not crushing it!

  70.  #70Siena on April 27, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Tinque, are you reading this thread? Do you have anything to say about my #66? I know this is your specialty…

  71.  #71Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Tara, I hear you about deleting every song! Music is a PART of my relationship with Ryan. He gazed at me thru about half of a Michael Bolton album, just leaning his head on his elbow, on his side, gazing, and I gazed back…whew! Heavy feelings of passion! We went on long car rides just listening to Delilah, typically hearing the rest of a song before we got out of the car…or listening to the rest of the song, Delilah’s next dedication, and then the NEXT song…before getting out of the car. “Our” song is “God bless the broken road.” When that came on once in the car, after it was already our song, he reclined the seat, turned to the door side, and I started to rub his back. I FELT him shuddering and crying with my hand. I just kept rubbing his back. Finally he said, “Would you please turn that off!” I only turned in DOWN, until the song was over. THEN I turned it off. Only then did he say thank you, but he kept his back turned. He was a bundle of emotions the rest of the night, repeatedly turning his head so I wouldn’t see his tears. I pretended I didn’t notice. I felt so loved that night, so wanted. Yes, I want those days back. **Deep sigh!**

  72.  #72Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Brenda – girl what are you doing??? I feel like oh nooo!!

    I see you speaking clearly and factually about these situations, yet the actions you are taking are the opposite of the tools that aare good for you – and it feels shocking to me to hear and disturbing to hear it talked about factually

    almost (big almost though) like someone was clearly
    and relaxedly describing abuse. “and then he pulled my hair, and then he dragged me on the floor, and then we made up and he made me tea”

    WOW! I understand the factually thing… i used to do this… it feels disturbing to me now

    i feel afraid to send this message because i don’t want to send my energy to where it cannot be used

    i dont want to feel unheard.

    AND i don’t want to scare you or make you feel unsupported

    i feel caring for you and i DO want to support you very much!

    and i do respect you and i feel safe telling you the truth of how i feel

    it feels awful taht you are contacting these men.

    writing that man a letter after he hung up on you!

    no. that is chasing. let him call you.

    the conversation with Ryan, felt so masculine to me. i mean right down to how a man talks to me.

    girl you are on the verge of being a siren. now you must truly really STOP. STOP is the first tool.

    STOP was my first tool. i hung up when a guy was calling me a bitch.

    step 2 was, i didnt call back a guy when we had an icky feeling conversation – i felt so anxious and tense i thought for sure it waould start big drama with all my friends and he’d hate me, etc, (it didnt)

    So please. do not get a Ryan fix. just stop. – I would feel happy to help you with this somehow

    do not contact kenny when he’s been mean, or giving u an attitude.

    the man is in prison. he’s not going Anywhere.

    he WILL contact you, as you know

    just lean back

    you will get to the feelings – the big ones will come up – CRY a lot. vampire scream

    write write write

    about feelings

    do the Riffing – Power and self esteem posts look on the sidebar, go to the older posts and DO the lists, the following feelings in the body


  73.  #73Brenda on April 27, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Daria, thank you very much for your feedback and feelings! I am labeled as having disassociation. My therapist told me it is when you suffer a trauma before age 5, and your emotions split off from your mind. It is a defense mechanism to protect your tender heart. So I have the ability to talk totally logically about past abuse. Then there are other times I am totally in my heart, and I am a bumbling mess of tears, snot, and vampire screams! I like that one! Reminds me of the time I anxiously went to the mailbox after not hearing from Arnold for months and one more day went by with no letter. I vampire screamed right at the mailbox! A neighbor heard me and came up our driveway! My Mom met her at the door and she asked if everyone was all right. She said it sounded like someone was being injured.

    Daria, I am VERY in touch with my emotions. I am totally open to growing more. Please understand I am new to this site and just trying to get acquainted with you sirens. I have let quite a bit hang out, but please know I need to develop more of a comfort level here. Plus I am writing a lot of this out to let you know who I am and where I’ve been.

    I don’t want you to feel you are wasting your energy on me. I feel what you are all saying. I also maintain that long term relationships are more complex than, “He hurt you so leave him.” There are many facets to both my relationship with Kenny and to Ryan. And, I am in process, most definitely.

    Please bear with me. I will check out the following feelings in the body…sounds good! Just know there’s a lot more to me than meets the eye. I am exposing the issues here, and there’s a whole lot more that is positive and growing that I am not wanting to be self-congratulatory about.

    I need to go now…talk to you sisters tomorrow! Thank you for all your feedback!

  74.  #74Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Tara –

    he may come to you, but right now you are pushing him away

    when you text him “if you want to see me this week, just text me”

    you might as well replace that with “i am texting to make sure i push you away right now! PUSH”

  75.  #75Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Brenda –

    we all disassociate from abuse i think. this is why i said i used to do that. and then i could talk calmly about it. ive heard other people do that often

    2. vampire screams are silent!! hehe!! theres the fist shaking open mouth out breath, but it doesn’t have a sound hehe

    mkaes it a lot more practical!

  76.  #76Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Brenda –

    I feel weird reading aout the “he hurt you so you leave him”

    that wasn’t what i wrote at all.

    in fact i never leave my past lovers, even if they were abusive. i only “leave” in the moment, until they contact me again and check how im feeling

    im glad you’re here and i feel uncomfortable hearing you hurting… i don’t want to see you doing things to hurt yourself including leaning forward to men

    PLEASE be SELF CONGRATULATORY. that is an amazing thing for you and for us.

    I do it all the time:

    for example Im great! i love myself! etc.

    about me right now:
    im feeling slightly unheard and pushed away, and i love my feelings

    i feel unsafe

    i love my feelings of not feeling safe

    i feel afraid

    i love my fear

  77.  #77tinque on April 27, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Tinque, are you reading this thread? Do you have anything to say about my #66? I know this is your specialty…

    Siena – Yes I’m here. There seems to be a couple of things going on here. First is that it’s obvious that this was not “the one”, for a good man would respect how you feel. He seems pushy to me, pushing for more than you were ready for.
    If you had know about Rori then you could have said, “It would feel so good to be held right now,” or something like this. The whole situation seemed uneasy to me on your part. If I’m wrong I apologize, but that’s done with now.
    What I’m also feeling from you is some fear around sex which manifests as shame or guilt or both.
    Sex for women is an enormously vulnerable thing. It doesn’t get much more vulnerable than this. You are allowing another being inside your body.
    If you don’t feel safe, if you carry any fear, it will manifest as tightness, numbness, sore spots in and around the vagina. You will hold, there and elsewhere. Tension interferes and/or inhibits feeling. It also will cause interruption in the energy flowing between your heart and your sex, including any and all erogenous zones.
    Sex at its ideal, its fullest encompasses the heart and the body.
    Learning how to relax each and every part of you as much as possible as often as possible, and this is MUCH harder than it sounds is a great place to start. Tuning in, checking around all over with your senses. The more you find, release, and let go, the more areas of tension seem to pop up though. Really you are just becoming aware of these places the more in tune with your being you become.
    Self-exploration, self-pleasuring is vital. The more you learn about your own body, the better it will feel when you are with a man, and you will able to show him how best to please you.
    This a good place to start. There’s much more on my site if you have time and the desire to look at it.
    I hope this helps.

  78.  #78Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Tinque — guess what i was self pleasuring myself and now im much more in feeling with my body and don’t really need to imagine weird things! and i had an whoa orgasm, something before i would shut down at the first seconds of!


    its because of your encouragement to keep doing this when it was feeling really weird and scary that i’m continuing and starting to feel good!!!

  79.  #79Daria on April 27, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Also I was trying to be quiet as i live with my parents, but my head was rolling like the exorcist!

    i felt embarrassed thinking of doing that in front of a man, i feel afraid of looking more like exorcist woman than sexy, and i LOVE MY FEAR

  80.  #80Siena on April 27, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Tinque, that does help – thank you! What’s your website again? It’s clear to me that this is where I need to go next.

    Re: him pushing me. Unless he was a mind reader, he wouldn’t have known. I never said anything, just went along with it, and pretended like I was all there. And he was very respectful, but must have been feeling a weird vibe from me.

    Here’s a lightbulb for me also. As I was pondering this whole thing, two of my CD men called me at the same time. I felt angry and thought “man! Leave me alone! I’m trying to work out being receptive here!”

    So – ummm – duh! Rori said in one of her programs that some people have a hard time receiving and it manifests as anger. I was with M before I found Siren Island, and the 2 men before him were girl energy, so I was used to giving, and not at all use to receiving.

    Now I am CDing, and practicing receiving. But (again, here’s where control comes in), I find I can only receive on my terms. M following me from room to room (as men do! it’s supposed to be a good thing! And he wasn’t being lecherous, just a guy) was outside of my comfort zone. Same thing with these CD guys calling me. I don’t want to talk to them, so I don’t want to be receptive.

    But in truth, I want to always be receptive – with strong boundaries – when it comes to men in a romantic situation. I need a vibe switch, which is why I’m here.

    Thank you Tinque! xoxo

  81.  #81Siena on April 27, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    …and the following me from room to room wasn’t for sex. It was because of things like he wanted to read to me something he found, or he wanted to tell me about his workday – stuff like that. But I would feel annoyed, and not say anything, and listen anyway. But then feel angry and claustrophobic.

    So I’m here learning how to express my feelings and my boundaries so that I can be authentic always.

  82.  #82TW on April 27, 2010 at 1:55 pm


    #79 has me cracking up in my office. You always make me laugh. Your story made my day!!! I am all giggles my friend. Glad you let loose and enjoyed the experience… .

  83.  #83Daria on April 27, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    TW – wow thanks girl hehe! i didnt even realize it sounded funny as i was so caught up in my drama haha


    omg but seriously tho

    do heads always roll???

  84.  #84dawn on April 27, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Tinque and Daria , I am constantly in awe of you both ! I wish I could hug you ! I learn something new from each of your posts. You rock, and we are blessed to have you both here.

  85.  #85Apple Jacks on April 27, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    OYI so many posts to catch up on!!! Gotta go eat dinner first….

  86.  #86dawn on April 27, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Tinque, Ive had alot of sex but there is only one man so far that I actually felt like I had made love with. I love my body as I should, and loved his. I hope to have that “making love feeling ” again. Thank you for wisdom.

  87.  #87tinque on April 27, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Daria – I’m so excited for you MY head is doing the exorcist thingy. This is AWESOME. It only continues to get better. You haven’t even come close to what can be possible. Bigger, longer orgasms, continuous ones, ones that stop only when you finally get bored, vaginal ones, cervical ones, soft subtle ones that feel and so profound at the same time, and you feel so as one with your man. She (your feefee/nani) will keep surprising you.
    As far as feeling embarrassed doing this in front of a man, most of us do at first and even for awhile thereafter, but remember this when you start feeling weird, men LOVE this, silly faces and all. It SO turns them on. Just pretend he’s not there, close your eyes, and just feel all the good feelings. Believe me it took me some time to feel totally comfortable doing this.

  88.  #88tinque on April 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Siena – Just click on my name or picture, and you will be taken to my site.
    I have something I want to add if I may about your annoyance at your former man following you around. It seems sweet to me. What was it that bothered you? Was he getting too close? And I mean to your heart.

  89.  #89Daria on April 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Tinque – ohhh i feel great readign your asnwer!! orgasms here i come!!! lol pun intended

  90.  #90Daria on April 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Thanks Dawn – hugs to you too!

  91.  #91tinque on April 27, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    dawn – you will feel this again. you will.

  92.  #92Siena on April 27, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Tinque, yes to your last question. I feel so much regret over the whole thing. I was so closed and unable to receive him. For about a month after he left, I would think “he made a mistake.” Then someone here posted about the turnaround and so I did it. “I made a mistake.” It still makes me cry, because I know it’s true.

    But that was my wakeup call. And it brought me here, and for that I feel so grateful!

  93.  #93tinque on April 27, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Siena – There really are no mistakes. Ultimately chances are very good he wouldn’t have been the one, BUT this situation did bring you here, and now you know so much more, and you will continue to do so. He was your messenger.
    And that’s very beautiful, isn’t it?
    Regrets and recriminations can’t serve you. They only keep you stuck.

  94.  #94dawn on April 27, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Simply Shannon, The sand , yes the sand. We use it at my work to protect and as a filter. The delicate pipes are surrounded by sand. Rocks are too hard, they can crush what is sooo delicate but the sand envelopes the pipes and conduit . Also when we are digging we know where the pipes are when we hit the sand. WOW ! Im so sorry to hear about your dad. Makes me feel teary and my arms stretched out for you! Been a busy day here on siren island. My thoughts are with you and yours. God luv ya sister !

  95.  #95Siena on April 27, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Thank you, Tinque. My head believes what you say. My heart is having a hard time releasing those feelings of regret.

    The only thing I’ve found that brings relief to my heart regarding this situation is to feel grateful for him, and to say, “I bless you with love, and I bring harmony to this situation.”

    I’m bawling as I write this. Regret is a strong (and useless, I know) emotion.

  96.  #96tinque on April 27, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Siena – I understand, and you will release it because you desire it. Be kind and gentle with yourself.

  97.  #97dawn on April 27, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Tinque, I will ,I feel it. I am ready . You are the epitamy of femininity ! Your site is so complimentary to Rori’s. So when Im walking around in work boots and hard hat, sweating in the sun I hope its OK with you that I take your essence with me. With Daria’s” in the hood sista” and your ” sex and heart ” I feel empowered to be awesome ! i think the message here is i dont think we can even fathom the depths that we touch other people. In ways that may even embarass some if they knew. i inspire to be more “girly ” and you have shown me the way to do that. I used to be a pretty tough cookie but i gotta tell ya my eyes are opened and my heart feels softer! Oh yah baby alot softer !

  98.  #98tinque on April 27, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I would feel honored dawn…

  99.  #99dawn on April 27, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Daria, I have always felt here like you got my back so to speak. You have never waivered even when we sirens seem to be on the wrong path you are always there. Kind and loving. Even when you are going through your own shit youve been there for each and every one of us and Id just like to thank you publicly for being there. Your presense here has been a god send for many. Im so greatful and would be honored to have your back if you ever need it .

  100.  #100TW on April 27, 2010 at 4:01 pm


    You are so right about Daria… She is truly awesome because she has really gotten me through some tough times and is going through with me step by step right now in an effort to help me deal with my ex…

  101.  #101Apple Jacks on April 27, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Wow, Siena what you are going through….I can really relate but in a different kind of situation. My heart to yours.

  102.  #102Daria on April 27, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Omgosh – thank you dawn and tw.

    i feel numb! i feel glad. and

    i dont see myself as kind and loving.

    i see it often as cold and uncompassionate, controlling, bossy…

    judgemental, closed

    i love my feelings…

    still working thru this trigger about it

    i feel so triggered when i hear someone doing stuff that is not in tune with rori’s teachings the way i understand them

    i feel frustrated and judgemental

    and uffff

    and i feel afriad to speak feeling that way

    i feel afriad of scaring people, controlling them


    i feel triggered

    TW for example i feel super judgemental and triggered when i hear you not leaning back in the past

    i felt triggered reading your poem too.

    i feel ashamed!

    i hate myself right now!

    i love my feelings of fear and shame.

    i feel tightening in my tummy and i love the tighteneing in my tummy

    i feel fear of being disliked and hated and


    i love my fear

    i feel hopeless head hanging

    i love my hopeless head hanging

    i dont want to feel this

    i love my feelings

  103.  #103Daria on April 27, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    i feel ashamed of my judgementalness. i love my shame. i love my judgementalness. it’s showing me how i treat myself

    how i punish myself and push myself away and not accept love from myself and look down on myself and get frustrated with myself for what i think are failures and

    how i dont trust myself to succeed, dont trust myself to follow my lead, dont trust myself to keep my word dotn trust myselfe to FOLLOW THROUGHT

    what who me I DO NOT FOLLOW THROUGH

    i refuse to do whats good for mE

    i will not

    i love my feelings

  104.  #104Daria on April 27, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    i want to feel safe that i will follow through

    that means i would have everything i want!

    and that feels scary!!
    it means my life would be HUGE!! and that feels scary!

    i love my fears

    i want it anyway i promise i do

    i feel horrified horrilbe fearful
    i love my feelings!

  105.  #105Daria on April 27, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    i REFUSE to trust myself. in the past i have not followed through. i dont feel safe leaving it up to me. i KNOW i will fail.

    i love my feelings! i love my fear . i love my helplessness. i love my shame. i love my sadness. i love my weird unnamable stuck apathetic unnamble feelinggggggggg

  106.  #106Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    YES!!! my needed moneys for this month is manifesting!!

    an order i canceled just in time is being refunded, i got a 12.50 dollar check in the mail from having cashed my 2500 reward points, and surely im getting to where it needs to be to pay my bills!


    thank you!

    i feel grateful

  107.  #107dawn on April 27, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Daria, I feel bad for bringin this all up but you just gotta know how awesome you really are and how much we value you. If I dont let you know im not just letting you down but myself too. Your strength and LOVE comes through every post you write. You are in your self in my opinion the most awesome person Ive had the honor to affiliate myself with . Humility and gracious. God luv ya ! We have all been listening, and care deeply as you do. Rori is one lucky siren ! Not only does she practice what she preaches but she has sirens like yourself to demonstrate that all she has aspired to has touched many, and not without your help.

  108.  #108Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    look what i found in my inbox:

    excerpt from Chris Cade’s emails (my inspiration for writing happy endings to stories like i did with Shannon’s )

    “P.S. If you think you’re better than other people who are judgmental, just remember that voice you hear is YOUR Inner Judge just trying to make you feel superior to somebody else. 🙂 … and that also means at some point, your Inner Judge will try to make you feel inferior to other people. 🙁

    P.P.S. Having an Inner Judge does not make you a bad person, no matter how loud or convincing it may try to be.

    ps i feel small writing that i wrote a happy ending to Shanons story, esp cuz she didnt like her rocks to be there. but i wanted the rocks to hav ea purpose

    also i feel judgemental of myself that i dont write happye endings for my own stories

    it feels like beign tightened up !!! rrghhh

    i didnt write a happy ending for the Shadow People story.. my life purpose

    anyone seen Inkheart?

    thats kina the concept

    i feel weird right now

  109.  #109Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    omgosh Dawn – thank you. i feel numb. i feel happy too. thanks!

  110.  #110Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Dawn – i felt excited when i read about you having strarted meditating…

    i do that too sometimes and i felt shocked when i first tried it

    shocked that i actually got around to trying it

    and shocked how I FELT!

    i felt like i could calm my anxiety!

    i am craving some right now actualy

    at first i couldnt really get myself to sit for 5 min wiht my eyes closed – thats how much i was into distracting myself

  111.  #111Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    omg u said i was the most awesome person you have the honor of being affiliated with. i feel staring eyed. i feel good in my head and ifeel blank.

    totally blank

    who me ? i am a total failure who cant even support herself and makes her parents unhappy

    who jsut got 2 duis!!!

    im a shameful horrible drain on society!


    i love myself

    i love all my shame and i even love my icky thoughts about myself

    i lvoe that i seem to be impersonating a little girl

    i love that i have wrinkles under my eyes that make me feel old and weird

    i love feeling rejected

    i love feeling totally alone

    i love feeling like a social outcast mental illness patient

    who sits alone in cars in parcking lots hella high and taps on herself tryng to feel better about her life

    i love all my horrible feelings

    i love all my good feelings

    i love my jdugements and my hopelessness and my defenses and my sighing

  112.  #112EarthDancer on April 27, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Rori’s tools work: LEAN BACK, SIRENS!

    “WE do not have to search for love. When we go into the world seeking love… hunting it down… pursuing it… then we are of the energy of needing, of lack. (LEAN BACK!) When we open our heart… present ourselves to the world of being full of love… embracing that loving energy which knows no lack or displays no neediness, then love comes to us.” The Face of Love

  113.  #113Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    an whats more ima pimp an a killer a drug dealer and a liar an a stealer


    jk thats from a song


  114.  #114Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    my dad will never accept me says the voice

    i will scare and trouble me my mom says the voice

    all you can do is abandon them or else hurt them says the voice


    i feel sobbingggg all of a sudden
    and its over

    it didnt go deep into the sobbing

    awww here it comes again

    i feel soo oooooooooooo sssssddddddddd

  115.  #115dawn on April 27, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Universe , Please give my sister Daria all she needs. Please give her the affuence and the love she desires. Thank you Universe

  116.  #116Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Dawn – thank you so much!!

    thank you for that magical flashlight!!

    wow! i deserve love. i didn’t know i felt so undeserving. i hug myself and you now hehe

  117.  #117dawn on April 27, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Daria, i can speak because of you, i can hear because of you and i can feel because of you. Being here has changed my life. I just wanted you to know. I think we al owe you a debt of gratitude, your honesty is liberating and whatever you desire should be yours !!

  118.  #118Daria on April 27, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    ummm Dawn sorry but you just dont give up do you. no matter what i say you just keep loving me. hehe.

    i feel like the toxic man.

    this is very healing. thank you Goddess.

    i am going to take your words and put them on my blog

  119.  #119dawn on April 27, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    If I can get it to my front door Im manifesting it to yours ! he he , Wish me luck !

  120.  #120dawn on April 27, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    I dont think a goddess should give up ! Its my right !

  121.  #121Daria on April 27, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Hehe – yay dawn!! i always wanted someone to say something like you did to me. i thought i would feel super cool and amazing like the worlds most secret super power magician and better than everyone else and felt ashamed of that part and yet thrilled.

    anyways now you did so surely this is a good sign, i felt numb and good and weird hehe… thanks

    wow this is a day that runs with the feelings huh

  122.  #122Daria on April 27, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Good luck!!!

    i want awesome luck too! and powerful health and fantastical sexualilty

  123.  #123EarthDancer on April 27, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Brenda: please re-read Daria #72 print it out and carry it with you everywhere…she is able to say what I was feeling … you ARE a beautiful Goddess Siren – gotta re-wire your brain xoxox to you!

  124.  #124Simply Shannon on April 27, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Daria: You are awesome! I just have to say I keep getting these hee-bee-gee-bee / weird things happening. You talked about a magical flashlight. TODAY I just wrote this to a friend:

    I’m praying for you too girl. Prayers that God will show up in the stillness, like a giant flashlight showing us the way through this dark place.

    Weird to see “flashlight” used twice today. Shivers. 😉

  125.  #125Turtle Girl on April 27, 2010 at 7:21 pm


    Love the stuff you write about sex. AS I have gotten older I am soooo not inhibited at all about sex and doing things in front of men. It has been a growth process like you say, and it takes pratice and time to let go of all the fears surrounding this-but wow do the guys love it. I can lay in the bed and masturbate myself in front of my lover and close my eyes and he watches and it drives them nuts. I have even learned how to use my vagina muscles and I can have the big “o” without even touching myself-just from muscle control down there. It is amazing stuff.

    We are supposed to love our feelings here, and when it comes to THAT-I really do. I have become so much more sexual with age, and more relaxed and totally accepting of my body, in whatever shape or age it is. That is not my issue when I have problems-mine are always learning to lean back, feel the feelings and let go.

    In fact, it has often been very interesting regarding the sex thing-with men, I am so uninhibited- that they end up being the ones who are more so than me. It’s weird because the myth about males is that they are the “sluty ones” and we are the more prudish. Not so. The last few guys I have known are way more prudish than I am. I am trying to get them to experiment and be a little hedonistic and they are reluctant. So I feel the right guy just hasn’t shown up yet, because Mr. Man for me will be a total hedonistic lover willing to do most anything if it feels good. I can’t wait…….yummy….xxooo

  126.  #126Daria on April 27, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Here’s a pretty quote that I think is how it works:

    Love is like playing the piano. First you must learn to play by the rules, then you must forget the rules and play from your heart.

  127.  #127Daria on April 27, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Turtle Girl – ditto on hedonistic lover hehe!! i have gotten some prudish ones too in the past

  128.  #128Daria on April 27, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    i am reading about squirting orgasms

    here’s some sites i found that were informative:

  129.  #129Daria on April 28, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Feeling the sleepiness. 2 1/2 hours late to myself and still loveing me. plodding on. souldiers plow thru mud. i feel soldierly. my eyes feel hot.

    my thigh feels tight. i feel closing eyes.


    i feel the ache in my tummy

    is it my womb or my bladder

    the former is my best guess

    maybe my peezy is coming

    sleepy woman


    ose is tingling

    like an electro sneeze

    the electrolicity feels heavy and hazing

    the green bar is almost there. look it is done. that persevering good bar is an eft resource state

  130.  #130dawn on April 28, 2010 at 2:23 am

    Brenda , I feel disturbed by your posts. “he agreed to see me ” , ” he turned his back to me ” ! I feel triggered and upset. The whole idea here is to empower yourself ! This whole process has little to do with the men we love . Its how we love ourselves. It doesnt matter what he says or does, what matters most is how its making you feel . It wouldnt feel good to me to have a man I loved to agree to see me or turn his back to me. If you can ,take the thinking out of it and start feeling .

  131.  #131dawn on April 28, 2010 at 2:54 am

    Turtle Girl, Thanks for the above post. For a long time I thought I was the only one capable of pleasuring myself in front of a man because of their response! They cant get enough of that! I feel validated and VERY normal now. THANKS !!!

  132.  #132xgirl on April 28, 2010 at 3:25 am

    woo! I love the bit about the filmmaker and crew, thanks rori good one!

  133.  #133dawn on April 28, 2010 at 4:25 am

    I feel today is gonna be my day ! I feel it in my bones. Ive felt that way for a while now ,something awesome is going to happen for me. Someone once told me Id been saved by the grace of God . I wasnt really sure or aware of what they meant at the time. I believe them now. Is it a strength we have as women to keep pulling ourselves up , or is it a personal thing ? I feel feminine strength now. I feel flowy and frilly ! I feel eyelash batty , mo daisy ! I feel like I woke up out of a bad dream somehow. This being strong on the inside and soft on the outside rocks ! Rori rocks ! I wish I could hug her . If she is listening I hope she knows how greatful I am !!!

  134.  #134Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 7:05 am

    #76 – Daria, Thank you very much for giving me your precious feeling messages! This site, and you especially, are the first time I have ever been spoken to in feeling messages. It feels a bit odd being on the receiving end of what I have been TRYING TO learn this past year thru Rori’s CDs. And you know what? It feels delicious!

    I am sorry you felt somewhat unheard. I admit I stressed on the back burner all last night fearing rejection from you. This morning, I don’t feel rejected. I feel heard. 🙂 And I thank you for that.

    Thank you also for encouraging me to be self-congratulatory. I will have to weigh that one as I go, cuz it’s so ingrained in me to be humble and not even accept applause. It’s a fine line, I believe. But when someone like me is coming from the place of having the self-esteem of a slug, I feel it’s as healthy as a bowl of strawberries with no pesticides.

    I love the way you say I feel fear. I love my fear. I feel this. I love this. I feel that. I love that! It’s totally awesome! I visited my friend, Franny, last night, and she was venting to me about a work situation where she’s being totally misunderstood and treated unjustly. First she let me read her totally professional memo, and then she let loose! F this and F that and dammit I hate it….you get it. She said, “Tell me this…did my anger come thru in that memo?”

    I started giggling. No, not at all! In fact, I was shocked for a moment when you started spouting off! I laughed some more and then I quoted you to her. I told her already about Rori Raye and the blog. I told her about how you express your feelings of fury and then affirm those feelings as you do. She really liked that, because she’s a very emotional Italian! She is accused of being too emotional by her coworkers. I encouraged her to be as emotional as she wants, that she’s in touch with her femininity, and it’s beautiful!

    Reflecting on our exchange, I feel I was anticipating rejection and perhaps unconsciously my defenses were starting to go up.

    Feeling your feeling messages felt good because I felt your genuine connection to my words, which are a part of me. Thank you, Daria!


  135.  #135Laura on April 28, 2010 at 7:10 am

    These blogs have helped me SO much the last few days.

    My man of 6 years left once again. I feel like such a fool. He has been flip flopping back and forth for the past year between me and an internet person in the next state.

    This last time, I fell for all of his promises and let him move back in. Then he just leaves, packs up and leaves while I am sleeping.

    I am so confused right now. I feel so angry at myself right now. I gave him all of the power and he has used it against me to make me feel like I am just an option to him.

    How could I let this happen ?? I am so much smarter than that.

    HE has very low self esteem and the person he keeps running to, well, it makes NO sense to me. She is a married, convicted felon with 4 children that he does not like nor do they like him. But where is he at ?? With her.

    My self esteem has taken a beating for sure. He has hurt me and my son more than words can even begin to describe.

    I have set up an appointment for counseling, which I am glad for me on one hand, but pissed off on the other. He should be the one in counseling. But I know in the end it will only benefit me.

    Not sure if he will come back again, his pattern says yes, but he was actually living here this time so maybe things have changed. That is not even the point though–the point is is that I want to make myself strong again, I want the old me back. I want to be able to tell him NO WAY will I allow you to hurt me again !! NO WAY will I allow you back into our lives.

    My head is spinning with so many emotions. Anger, frustration, sadness, fear, disappointment and a few moments of relief all thrown together.

    I have to become stronger. I need to become stronger. I need to realize that his treatment of me and my son is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I need to be me again !!

  136.  #136Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 7:42 am

    #123 Hi EarthDancer, Thank you! I will print it out! Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I am in the process of rewiring my brain! And it takes time. So time is a gift. Sometimes I feel like an idiot when I’ve listened to Rori’s CDs 3X each and still over-function and still yell and swear instead of saying, “I feel angry!” But I keep reminding myself of what Rori says, “Baby steps.” I can’t expect to completely change in one year what I have done for 45 years.

    Every day, at every turn, the broken record of childhood plays, saying, “You’re a horrible person!” I have come a long way to replacing it, but it still tries to scream in my ear every day. It wasn’t said to me directly, but the sum of all that was said to me and how I was treated gave me that firm message.

    I entered adulthood believing that I was a horrible, ugly, stupid person. The Love of God and self-love have brought me a long way. Now when people try to put that shit on me, I often will make a joke of it, saying sarcastically, “Oooooh, I am SUCHCHCH a horrible person!” And then I laff!

    So let me temper what I just said with trying a little self-congratulatoryness….hehehe! I am SUCHCHCH a beautiful, intelligent, marvelous woman, and I shine like a star, leading the way to my soft, warm, loving heart!

  137.  #137mary on April 28, 2010 at 7:47 am

    Oh, my Island Guy is backing away for some reason. Last week he was saying “hope to see you soon,” and this week he’s giving me less and less email communication. He has my phone number but has yet to call me.

    I feel humiliated for letting my heart get involved.

    I feel shame, as though there’s a lack in me and that’s why the interest is waning.

    I feel fear that I won’t get the chance to see him again.

    I feel sadness that this is happening to poor Mary. Poor me, poor me!

    I feel anger towards myself for making crummy choices about spouses.

    I do feel happy, too. About what? Possibilities. New men. New stories. The dates I already have scheduled. Thinking about K, who loves silly frilly women (stepping up here! looking through my closet now!) and smiles at me constantly. Friday at 7pm! Wow.

    And hey, Island Man will contact me again… something to look forward to.

    I guess this is how you deal with tentative, timid, hot and cold intermittent men.

    Just date others.

  138.  #138Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 8:01 am

    #129 Hi Dawn, thank you for your feedback! You are totally right about “He agreed to see me.” And I KNOW that! I knowingly called him, knowing it was leaning forward. Please bear with me like teddy bear with me cuz I am a siren IN PROCESS. I am not at a point of emotional strength yet where I can just let go of a man. I feel weak. I feel the old emotional blackhole of loneliness sucking me back in. I tried to circular date to not give Ryan so much importance. But I felt rejected and rejected by men who didn’t even get as far as meeting me in the dating process. So my longing for Ryan has continued to pull me for months now.

    He is playing me like a game of chess. As the stakes have gotten higher, he’s made increasingly strategic moves. At first, it was easy. We spent 2-3 months cuddling and having pillow talk in bed! Nope, no sex! Just cuddling and pillow talk! I found a man who was actually more interested in getting to know my heart and soul than my body! It was heaven on earth to me, and they are the happiest, most fulfilling days of my life!!

    Then after we totally connected two weekends in a row with shore trips, he sat on the sofa, rather than climbing in bed. He said, “It feels too romantic.” The stakes were getting higher, and now he distanced himself more and more. Cuddling became a thing of the past. Five minute hugs became barely pats on the back as he left. “I love you” became “God bless you.” I didn’t want it all to end!

    So I started taking a flying leap off my bridge, rowing at battle speed, and dragging him along with both fists on his collar! 🙂 I KNOW it’s all wrong! I KNOW it goes against Rori’s tools! A year later and I am STILL figuring out HOW on earth to control my powerful emotions when he is away doing his thing, ignoring me. I pathetically asked him to meet me, cuz I haven’t seen him in two months. My loneliness got the better of me.

    So should I feel self-loathing? No! And I refuse to! Do I know I messed up AGAIN? Yes. But my overall feeling is yeah! Congratulations, Bren! You turned it around from a negative vibe to positive, and you held out a full 10 days this time before you contacted him! That’s what I call baby steps. Maybe I’m not ready to just stop altogether. But this is the first time I’ve gone 10 days without contacting him. For me, that is tremendous progress, even if it feels pathetic to you.

    I really feel this site will help me tremendously to ingrain Rori’s excellent principles in my every day interactions…or NOT interactions! I am growing stronger, but I’m not where I need to be yet. After 45 years of intense loneliness, it’s hard for me to let go of the man I connected with more than any other. But do I feel like a mouse between the paws of a cat that caught his first mouse? Yes. He’s feeling the power, and he’s loving it. I feel like a fool, but like Daria would say, I love feeling like a fool! I feel myself growing, and I love feeling myself growing! In the midst of my gigantic relational mistakes, I feel Ryan moving back toward me, understanding I am in process, and that feels EXCELLENT! I am NOT a horrible person! I am a mermaid who has landed, barely breathing, on Siren Island! And, no Dawn, I am not saying YOU were calling me a horrible person. I am working out my self-growth here! Thank you, Sirens! I love to be on your playful, glorious island!

  139.  #139Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 8:04 am

    #129B Dawn, I also meant to address “he turned his back to me”. He didn’t do it with the usual sense of disrespect. He did it to hide that he was starting to cry. Many, many times he’s hidden his face from me in one way or another, trying to HIDE HIS EMOTIONS. I have come to embrace that as moments of him loving me, since it is extremely difficult for him to express his feelings. He was crying while listening to “God Bless the Broken Road that Led Me Straight to You.” He was loving me with those tears.

    I gently encourage him to not hide his face, but he is like a shy little puppy. I love him in his process just as I love me in my process. 🙂 And that feels healthy, the unconditional love.

  140.  #140tinque on April 28, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Turtle Girl – YAY…Hedonism within an intimate bond is like nothing else. I too didn’t really come into my own sexually until later, and it feels better to have had things unfold in this way.
    Many women though certainly not all, lose interest as the age, and for me it has been the total opposite.
    Men slow down as they get older, but my elevated sexuality keeps K’s going strong.

    Dawn – Awesome. No you are certainly not alone in this. It’s good to hear you came to it naturally.

    Now I would like to learn how to orgasm by just thinking about it. Wouldn’t that be fun?

  141.  #141Rachel on April 28, 2010 at 8:15 am

    I just learned that I will be spending next weekend in the town where my guy is stationed (military). We haven’t seen each other in almost a year and a LOT happened over that year including a 2-3 month period of almost no contact which broke my heart.

    I got back on my feet, leaned way back and he’s been rowing… and it has felt incredible. But now I am terrified to actually see him again. He’s super excited and I am too, but I feel afraid that somehow things will get messed up again.

    I’ve been doing well, but I still think about him and miss him more than a Goddess should I think. So I’m worried that being with him will stir up all my junk again. I’ve worked SO hard to get where I am. I just wish I trusted myself to stay strong and stay on my horse next week.

    I think I’ve learned enough that I’ll be able to outwardly react differently, but inside I feel trembly and scared of being hurt again.

    I just felt like I wanted to let you guys know.

  142.  #142Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Hi Rachel! I am so happy for you! Can you replace the fear thoughts with happy thoughts? Maybe when you’re with him you could practice your tools of visualizing yourself as the sea, a rock, wind, and send shimmer showers of femininitiy all over your body as you spend time with him!

  143.  #143Simply Shannon on April 28, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Rachel: Maybe preparing a speech would help? If you get those scared feelings at some point, you could say:

    I feel so happy to see you but … I also feel scared. We haven’t seen each other in almost a year and a LOT has happened.

    I’ve worked SO hard to get where I am. Sigh. It feels so good to be in your arms but inside I feel trembly and scared of being hurt again.

    What do you think?

    This sounds soooo endearing to me. This is not about putting on a good show for him and making him see you happy. This is about telling him how you feel. If you feel scared, say so. If you feel angry, say so. This is being REAL with a man, NOT “lalalala, everything’s fine, you’re the best, I love you, lalalala”. He won’t believe you anyway and I bet HE has the same fears. Fears that he’ll goof up and lose you again.

  144.  #144Simply Shannon on April 28, 2010 at 8:35 am

    And you could also use Bob Grant’s famous words as you leave him…

    “If you’re not careful, you will lose me forever.”

    Then get up and walk away in the dust. Do not look back.

    This is power. YOU have the power.

  145.  #145Turtle Girl on April 28, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate it. It makes the revealing our ourselves around such private things not such a big deal when someone else says-Yeah, that is me too. I have a girlfriend who is a total hedonist like me and she gets it, but I am not sure that everyone would be thrilled to hear about that kind of thing. Women I feel, unfortunately have been raised to be “good girls”, and although the sixties counter acted some of that, it is a long time before change comes about.

    I would love it when the day comes if we all as sirens just felt totally comfortable and relaxed having any kind of sex and loving ourselves no matter what. That would be a fine day!

    Tinque-thinking an orgasm-now that would be something!! lol I am afraid I would not get much else done………….Then someone would say-“Hey what are you thinking about?” lol………

  146.  #146Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Shannon, that is an excellent power speech/feeling message! Perfect!

    Sexxx! Mmmm! One of my favorite topics! I like the way the word feels when I say sexxx! Like daring, sultry, passionate, wild, connected with ME!

    I loooove self-pleasuring!

  147.  #147Rachel on April 28, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Brenda and Shannon,

    Thank you! I am trying to look at this as a great time to practice my tools in person instead of just over the phone/chat.

    The speech you wrote, Shannon, feels good to me too. I did kinda say that to him last night as we were making plans.

    It’s hard for me to feel like I have the power. I feel it in moments, but I’m afraid that when I see him, I’ll either clam up to protect or throw myself at him again.

    Sigh… I felt like I’d made a lot of progress. I guess it’s test time!?

    It frustrates me though because I feel like these worries are stealing away my joy and excitement in seeing him.

  148.  #148Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Here’s an update on Kenny…he called me this morning, and I considered not taking the call, but I decided it would feel good to talk with him. When he said how are you, I said, “Oh, I don’t need to answer. You already know how I feel.” He got a little hostile and then I told him how I felt disrespected when he hung up on me when I was in the middle of expressing my feelings. He kept blame-shifting until I said, “I was hoping for an apology.” By the end of the call, he gave me a sincere apology. There are still issues, but I feel one step closer to being where I need to be with him.

  149.  #149Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Siena, your comments yesterday meant a lot to me. Thank you! I feel encouraged.

  150.  #150Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Rachel, I find for me, when I consciously, physically lean back when I’m with a man, it is a reminder to stay in my girl AND it sends a subconscious message to the man, to lean forward. Leaning back literally helps me relax, and then I practice my girl tools, until I am oozing with femininity! I feel soft and vulnerable, and I feel strong and in control. I love feeling soft and vulnerable! I love feeling strong and in control! I love the soft look that overtakes my face in those moments. I love the soft look that overtakes my man’s face when he senses MY soft look, and then I know I am properly in my girl, and then that is when I drop all the rules, and just speak from my wonderful woman heart! Just like that quote given earlier. I love feeling in the moment! It feels so alive, and I feel so connected to life and I feel exuberantly alive when I feel in the moment, feel by feel.

  151.  #151Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 9:52 am

    “Now I would like to learn how to orgasm by just thinking about it. Wouldn’t that be fun?”

    I’ve done that a few times. It’s pretty cool, but not my favorite way. 🙂

  152.  #152Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Brenda — I feel a little confused….Did you say before that you are married to Kenny?

    I would feel happy hearing about a conversation with Kenny that went kinda like this:

    K- How are you?

    B- I feel happy that you called. And I feel a little mad and frustrated.

    K-Why do you feel mad and frustrated?

    B-It felt awful to be hung up on when I was expressing my feelings.

    K-(blame-shifting stuff)

    B-I feel mad.

    K-(more blame-shifting)

    B-I feel so sad and helpless.

    K-(more blame-shifting)

    B-I don’t want to be in a relationship where my feelings are not valued. What do you think?


  153.  #153Siena on April 28, 2010 at 10:09 am

    I went speed dating last night. Practiced all the tools, and had fun doing it. Didn’t meet anyone I’d want to see again though. So my friend and I went next door to the bar to debrief and in walked a sexxxxy 50 yo.

    He sat with me and I leaned back, again practicing all the tools and soon he was hooked!

    I feel scandelous. I’m thinking of taking him as a lover.

    He’s a manly manly manly man. I’ve never dated someone that much older than I. But I feel feminine and strong with him. And I feel beautiful and sexy!!

    I wonder, could I do this? Could I take this man as my lover and not feel guilty? Or if I felt guilty, could I work thru it?

    Could I use him to help me get to my happily ever after?

  154.  #154Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 10:28 am

    WOW! Siena!!! I feel awed and excited! My heart was just a thumpin’ so hard and fast reading your comment!

    Where would the guilt be coming from? Can you identify that?

    How old are you? (I’m 47, so 50 sounds perfect to me. 🙂 )

  155.  #155Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Lucy, thank you very much! I will try your script on the next round! Yes, I’ve known Kenny since 2000, and we were married in name only, long distance, for three years. It feels SO challenging to shift the vibe of an established relationship, as unhalthy as that relationship may be.

    When I move to create that shift, he senses it, and he feels insecure, threatening to end the friendship, and blaming the conflict on another person in my life who he falsely accuses of shifting my love away from him.

    Little by little, I’ve been focusing on using the tools with him. Little by little, it works, but he feels the vacuum created by me not falling into the expected relational patterns, and I feel attacked.

    Next round? I’ll try your script! Feels good!

  156.  #156Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 10:32 am


  157.  #157Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Siena, I’m happy for you that you had such a happy time with scandalous lover manly manly manly man!

    Just know that a young, beautiful woman is a prize to a 50 year old man. Make him work for it! And I hope you protect yourself by getting to know his heart, and if there are any skeletons in his closet.

  158.  #158Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I don’t feel alone anymore. I have always lived alone on my island, at least until Ryan came, for a while. Now I am on an island inhabited by beautiful, wise, scandalous sirens, and I feel so happy inside!

  159.  #159Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Lucy, I’m 36. I felt amused when you asked whether I could identify where the guilt comes from. Yeah, this is not hidden at ALL for me, I know EXACTLY where it comes from because I live with it as a constant (but mostly quiet) companion! It’s religious guilt for sure.

    And also because I am still dating other men, so there’s some of that. I’ve never slept with one man and dated 3 others before.

    But I like how this feels! I get to be the chooser. It feels good to consider this man as a lover without having to consider whether I want to marry him. Okay, I KNOW that sounds ridiculous, but that’s what I was taught, and it’s still there in my mind.

    Bren, I’m SURE there are skeletons in his closet. There are in mine! I will stay close to Siren Island so I don’t get lost… but if this moves forward, I’m sure it will be a triggering hayday for me!

  160.  #160Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Hey Siena question, when yousaid you practiced the tools are they specifically from Rori’s “Targetting Mr. Right” or just her tools in general? I guess I’m trying to get a general visual of what practicing Rori’s tools on dates might look like.

    Oh and I have seen many hot 50 year olds, lol. Why would you feel guilty if you took him on as a lover?
    I think for me personally it sounds like fun. 🙂

    Hey Brenda, nice meeting you. Keep trucking, I’m a siren in process too. 😉

  161.  #161Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Siena, LOL! You are moving forward in a healthy way. I was raised a Christian, and I broke away from what I was taught for a season…and now I’ve returned, after proving them all true with the pain and danger. I will be glad to share with you some of my experiences, but probably privately, if you care to know. How do you feel about that?

  162.  #162Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Yeah, Siena, I understand — I had exactly the same (religious guilt). For me, last August, TN man helped me work through that in an amazingly thorough way — he had come from the same type of background and knew every nuance of where I was coming from and was able to respect our shared faith while challenging some of the religious rules that had been associated with it. It was very freeing. After that, when I decided to do what you are contemplating, I was shocked at the lack of guilt, shame, or anything else negative.

  163.  #163Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Hi Apple Jacks, thank you! Nice to meet you too! I’ve been enjoying your posts! You sound like a real Apple Jack! 🙂 I get a kick out of some of the things you say! Very liberating!

  164.  #164Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:20 am

    AJ, I’ll give you a visual (because this feels fun for me to replay it in my mind).

    I was sitting at a table, and a bunch of men (14 I think) rotated from table to table and had 8 minutes to talk to me. So I leaned back in my chair, and when they came up to my table, I gave them a big smile, but kept my mouth shut. And most of them fidgeted a while, sitting down and stuff, but I kept smiling and looking at them. Each then each finally introduced himself and stuck out his hand – then I smiled again and introduced myself. And then was silent again until (smiling and tilting my head) until he started a convo.

    During the convo, I talked about whatever he wanted to, and used feeling messages like crazy. Most men (when they were supposed to move on) couldn’t stop talking to me, and more than once I heard, “man! Is our time up already? That went so fast!”.

    And my girlfriend was at the next table, and she told me that several men kept talking about me to her. It felt good!

    With the sexy 50 yo, he and his friend just came in and sat down at our table. I was immediately attracted to him, but leaned back and started playing with the air in front of me (moving my fingers through the air) and then playing with my fork. Not at all trying to get him into conversation. That took about 5 minutes, and he grabbed my arm, and then was fixated on me the rest of the time.

    And it was easy with him to use feeling messages, because he was ALL man. So it’s almost like he expected it of me!

  165.  #165Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:23 am

    The interesting thing, Siena, in my past, as long as I subscribed to the religious rules/guilt/shame…. that was exactly what I manifested– situations where someone (the guy, my friends, other people) would end up shaming me about sex!

    I became so desperate to get married so that I could finally have sex in a “pure, holy way,” without the shame associated with it in my past experiences.


    long story, I ended up married to a man who SHAMED me for my normal sexual desires!

    I was horrified. Here I was, doing it “right” — and STILL being shamed!!!!

    It felt so confusing.

    TN man helped me see that the shame was INSIDE me, from my conditioning, and that I was just unconsciously creating external circumstances to match what was on the inside.

  166.  #166Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Oh, Siena, that feels fun! You played the tools so well! I just joined a dating site today, and I’m at least trying to feel excited about meeting new men and continuing to practice being a leaning back siren. All the while, my heart keeps singing, “Ryan! Ryan! Ryan!” I’m playing fair, tho. After we were exclusive for a few months last year, after an incident, I told him I was going to keep on dating until I had a ring on my finger.

  167.  #167Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Bren, I’d love to hear your experiences, but I don’t want to post my email address in this public place… do you have an idea of how we could communicate privately?

    I haven’t left the church, but (like Lucy said) I am challenging some of the beliefs that have left me feeling caged. I have so much guilt tied up around sex… but funnily enough… not in the moment. I love my body, and it’s a good one (hehehe). I can’t share this stuff with anyone in my circle of family or friends though, and that’s where the guilt comes in. It feels so good to be able to express myself freely here!

  168.  #168Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Lol, thanks Brenda. 🙂 You sound like an amazing woman.

    Siena, I so feel you when you say religious guilt. I have been plagued with it all my life. My brothers and I had intense spiritual training when we were in our teens and twenties. And you know what intense spiritual training means? Living like Nuns, lol.

  169.  #169Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Lucy, I can’t tell you how grateful I feel that you’re here! That is EXACTLY what my experience has been too (without the marriage part). And I’m naturally a free spirit – even sexually – but have kept it repressed for a long time because I too was taught to desire the pure and holy relationship. But all I found were men who were messed up sexually and shamed me too (or just completely shut me out).

    What I desire is a man who can explore that part with me. It’s funny, but I don’t feel any shame in the bedroom, and have zero inhibitions there. But I do feel it outside the bedroom. I want a man who is willing to explore the very edge of my sexuality with me (and vise versa).

  170.  #170Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Thanks Siena! The playing with your fingers in the air and the fork, that must be from Modenr Siren, right? I am so awkard with my hands. I never freakin know what to do with them! It’s hard for me to just leave them hanging and feel relaxed like all the body language courses teach us.

  171.  #171Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Oh this doesn’t feel good. The girl who I was out with yesterday took some video of me and the sexy 50 yo and just emailed it to me and another friend of mine. I freakin’ HATE it when people gossip about me! I didn’t remember that she took video. It feels yucky – like they’re laughing at me.

    Okay, BIG TIME trigger here. These women are not Sirens, and I feel made fun of.


  172.  #172Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Wow, Lucy and Siena I feel I relate to you both so much in the sexuality/religious guilt arena. Everything you both said, echoed and resonated deep within. That’s ME.

  173.  #173Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Hi Pennsylvania Lucy! That’s sad that your husband shamed you about sex! The Bible says, “The marriage bed is pure and undefiled.”

    Here is my dream: I want to be in bed with my husband, who is also my Soul Mate, Lover, Partner, Confindante, and Best Friend. There when we make love it will be an expression of our deepest love, spirit to spirit, soul to soul, mind to mind…and body to body. God created our bodies to FEEL pleasure! While we are exploding with passion juice, it will go up as an act of worship to God!

    I want to share with you sirens my sexual experiences but I don’t dare to on the internet. You never know who’s reading it. Suffice it to say I had about 5 years where I did whatever I felt like doing. I felt used, and as I heard someone else say, “Sex isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.” That was a sad commentary on free sex. It lost its beauty, its mystery, its intimacy. I risked pregnancy more than once, by men who tricked me. I risked STDs. And I proved how empty it can be making love when love’s not really there.

    It could be argued it was a rite of passage. But it felt empty. I felt like an object gratifying some man’s selfish desires. Most of them wanted head, and several said that’s their favorite “position”. I’m somewhat exposing something I AM ashamed of because I want you to know how I felt after 5 years of indulging and, yes, breaking away from the shame of sex outside of marriage as I was raised.

    I have cum full circle, and now I deeply desire to only have sex with ONE man ever again, my future husband.

  174.  #174Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Hugs, Siena! Everything you just wrote is the same for me too!

    Can you see how I became so attached to the man who helped me work through all that???

    He and I shared about how we were both so scared as teens that someone would find out we were pleasuring ourselves. 🙂

    I SO hope he follows through with wanting to be with me! I have been researching asperger’s, which he has, and it is explaining a lot about the dynamics in our relationship.

  175.  #175Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I’ve ALWAYS felt judged about the men I like. Always. I hate that. I need to fix that in myself. It’s what I like – not you. I am attracted to people I’m attracted to. So live with it. Fuck you.

  176.  #176Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Oh, Siena, I feel sad and mad about the video!!!

  177.  #177Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Do your friends not think he’s attractive?

  178.  #178Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Lucy, I totally understand how you would become attached to that man! You and he shared something special! This is powerful stuff!

  179.  #179Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Yes, I hate being judged about the man I’m with too. Lucy, did you mean MPD yesterday? If so, yes, something like that. And people judge me for that. I fear it happening here (I read the whole string about he fell for a stripper and she wants him back…felt scary). I want to talk with you Siena…others, too…I am scared what I post after reading what happened with J-Rock. 🙁 Anxious looking around….

  180.  #180Simply Shannon on April 28, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Siena: Riff those feelings. What can you say to your friend?

    I feel angry.

    I feel betrayed.

    I feel judged.

    I love my feelings.

    Is the truth that you feel a little judgmental of yourself for being attracted to a man who is 50? and that is actually the trigger that’s causing you to believe that they are laughing at you? Can you flip it around in your mind and say “here’s proof that I was talking to a handsome man last night”?

  181.  #181Simply Shannon on April 28, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Brenda: I’ll raise my hand and say that my entire sexual history was much like your 5 year adventure. It is what it is. I can’t change it. A part of me obviously wanted that lifestyle, or I wouldn’t have done it. It’s okay. Do I feel ashamed when I say it outloud? Yes, but not nearly as much as I once did.

  182.  #182Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:47 am

    The friend I was with was 25. And no, she wouldn’t think he’s attractive. My other friend might. But I just hate that they’re TALKING about me!

    He is sexy man, he’s not LA pretty boy. They like LA pretty boys. And they don’t understand that I am circular dating for ME. They just don’t get it. They’re not even friends. I separated myself from them last summer because I couldn’t stand being the topic of gossip anymore. I really really hate it. I only went speed dating with this girl because I was in my “I’m not gonna say no” phase, and she asked me. I really feel angry.

  183.  #183Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Kenny, my ex, is 13 years older than me…he’s almost 59. The cool thing bout being with an older man is he isn’t intimidated by all the feelings! Kenny totally sidestepped all this withdrawing and being shy about feelings because he’s a seasoned man’s man. He was like a father to me in healthy ways, guiding me. He wants me to find a good man, and he even date coaches me to a degree! As I said near the top of this string, in Post #19, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with age differences! I love it that I’m 15 years older than Ryan! Even if he is hung up in expressing himself freely!

  184.  #184Simply Shannon on April 28, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Lucy: I feel very curious how you let lose of those guilty feelings around sex. I feel stuck about this. Definitely looking towards marriage for sex.

  185.  #185tinque on April 28, 2010 at 11:51 am

    “Just know that a young, beautiful woman is a prize to a 50 year old man.”

    Maybe, but I would have to respectfully disagree with this. A deep and passionate, heart centered man seeking true intimacy would in most cases look to find his woman, his most special prize in his own age group.
    The above scenario in most cases would be a boy/man looking for arm candy or a plaything.

  186.  #186Rachel on April 28, 2010 at 11:51 am


    Your night sounds amazing! Could you describe a little more fully what you did with your hands? I don’t feel sure of how to play with the air.


  187.  #187Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Siena, you have good reason to be angry and feel violated. Go get em with your feeling messages! Sorry that happened to you, and I hope you can make a lemonade out of the lemon of them taping you.

  188.  #188Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:51 am

    S Shannon the truth is that I’ve always compared my men to other women’s men. And it’s left me alone. I’ve never thought that the guys who were with my girlfriends were anything. Yes, I feel very judgmental about that. I am judgmental about that and so that’s why I feel judged I guess. I want to break out of that and just like who I like – regardless of income, looks, age, IQ, – whatever!

  189.  #189Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Brenda– I feel happy and excited that you joined an online dating site.

    No, I meant NPD — narcissistic personality disorder.

    So, looks like you’re saying he has multiple pd?

    As far as your experiences with sex, I experimented like that too, but I never felt used. I enjoyed everything I did, and felt it was my choice. The bad part was when people would shame me for it.

    And I did get pregnant. I regret that I was unable to raise the baby myself and had to place her for adoption. 🙁

  190.  #190Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Rachel – playing with the air. I guess you imagine that you’re underwater, and move your hand back and forth in front of you as if you were doing it underwater. It’s a pretty subtle movement, though, because it would feel funny to do it full out. It’s kinda like imagining your hands are seaweed, floating in the water, and moving from that.

  191.  #191Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Hello Tinque, when you say arm candy or a plaything, I think that’s what I mean about a “prize”. Most men around 50 are used up, to put it bluntly. Most of the women in their age group (i.e., MY age group), are used up: wrinkled, flabby, or sagging, with children, ex’es, etc. If that feels harsh, maybe it is. I see it as harsh, too. I am not attracted to many men in my age group because I see most as self-centered and used up.

    I see Siena as beautiful and fresh and could have any man she wants. I want the best for her. I want the best for all of you. I am not trying to put down sexy man. Again, I chose Kenny, and he’s an asshole in some areas and a total tear-jerking diamond in others. He’s sexy to me, not because of his looks, which are average, but because of his heart of gold and his confidence. I think older men CAN BE sexy because they have developed confidence.

    If I sound prejudiced about older men, I am. If that’s wrong, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to offend anyone. I just know that I fell in love with my naughty Ryan who is 31 and he turned me into a cougar! Grrrrrowwwellllll! Eh-eh!

  192.  #192Siena on April 28, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Tinque’s back!

    So now I have a question from your last post, Tinque. What if I wanted to have the sexy 50 yo help me to get past my feelings of guilt and (whatever) where sex is concerned. Is it better to do that now or wait for the man who will adore all of me? I’ve waited a LONG time for the latter, and wasn’t able to deal with it when ALL of me was invested!

  193.  #193Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Hey, Siena,

    I got an idea! Could you post me an ad in Craigslist? Tell me where it is (like the free section in philadelphia) and I will respond. It will be sent to an anonymous email and you will know which response is me. You could choose to ignore the others. How do you feel bout that?

  194.  #194Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Oh! I can’t keep up with this post! Comments are coming in so fast!

    Siena — I would try that tool here, “When did I feel this feeling in the past?” — all the way back to childhood.

    I feel protective of our Siena.

    Boo to the mean girls!!!

  195.  #195Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Brenda– I feel sad reading that men and women in our age group are used up. I don’t feel used up — and I don’t even have my ovaries and womb anymore! I feel fresh and young and wonderful. Haha, and “American Honey” just came on the radio — that’s how I feel, like I’ve gotten back to American honey, my free-spirited little girl but with a sexy woman body.

  196.  #196Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Tinque — “A deep and passionate, heart centered man seeking true intimacy would in most cases look to find his woman, his most special prize in his own age group.”

    Definitely truth in that — I feel curious what you think the range would be…?

    For example, if a man is 45, what would constitute “his own age group”?

  197.  #197Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Siena – about your situation…UGH. Sometimes women get on my nerves. That’s how I FEEL and I’m sticking to it. *Folds Arms*

    Now when I say that, I mean the kind of *girls* who have yet to tap into that power within themselves. The girls who are not yet in touch with their inner sirens are the ones who get on my nerves. I feel these untapped sirens running around this earth live in a hollow shell of their “belief systems” that have nothing to do with the beautiful reality that their real feelings could bring them. I feel like these girls judge, are ruled by their jealousy and insecurity and I feel judgmental of them and annoyed by them. I feel snobbish towards them like, “I’m a siren and you’re not.” Snooty I know, but I feel snotty towards them.

    Siena, I feel encouraging of you to bring out your inner snoot. This is how I feel…YOU are a siren. THEY are not. They’re just simply not. *tsk tsk tsk*

    I feel your anger, Marilyn. Oooops…I meant, Siena. 😉

  198.  #198tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Brenda – The thing is I can’t agree with you. I know many, many women in their late 40s and up who are HOT. Myself included.
    My K will be 50 this year, and he is FAR from used up or self-centered.
    We still partner each other in ballet and look awesome doing so.
    We have an amazing sex life as many here already know and frequently.
    He is playful, loving, affectionate, and generous.
    K is not alone. I also know many men his age who are in good shape but more importantly, are open, loving men.
    I believe these ideas about “older” men and women are media produced falsehoods that so many adopt.

  199.  #199Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Lucy, hmmm, I myself don’t feel used up. I feel yucky about men in my age group cuz I’ve had so many bad dating experiences. And I’ve found most are posting to meet women in their 20s and 30s. I know I am carrying some baggage.

    Please know, Siena, that I am NOT putting down YOUR sexy man. Go for it! I am just feeling protective of you, too, like Lucy said. If this is a rite of passage you feel you need, then I support you all the way. I will say I learned a lot. But I went thru stuff that I regret and I often wish I hadn’t put myself in those situations. I really would like to share with you…not to judge your choice in men, just to simply share the details of my experiences. My hope is to save you the pain I went thru.

  200.  #200Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Oyi! Lucy I feel you when you said the posts are coming in too fast!!! I feel dizzy….

  201.  #201Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Maybe the reason I have turned into a cougar is BECAUSE I feel young at heart. I feel more attracted to younger men. So I guess I’m judging the older men who are attracted to younger women, and that feels yucky. That feels like saying to myself, “Bad Bren!” I love my yucky feelings, because they are one step from enuff awareness to transform them into accepting feelings. I love older men! Puke! No, just kidding! I will work on that, and try to see each man as an individual, no matter how old.

    One thing I know: I’m in love with Ryan! hehehe!

  202.  #202Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Tinque, I receive what you are saying, and I am very happy for you and K! You are a beautiful siren! Correction accepted, Bad Bren has baggage! My perceptions are not from the media. Mine are from personal bad experience, starting from when my great-grandfather sexually abused me and my cousin and my past housemate in his 60s tried to peek at me several times in my bed and in the bathroom. Again, I have had a lot of GOOD experiences with 59 year old Kenny, and I am thankful for most of what he has taught me. Sorry if I offended anyone, because it wasn’t my intention. Just my own stuff.

  203.  #203Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Brenda, I feel the exact opposite of how you feel about 50 year old men. Anyone know who Morten Harket is? He’s the lead singer of A-Ha. He’s like 49. I’ve had a crush on him since I was SEVEN. I wanted to lose my virginity to him (I feel the blood rushing to my cheeks because of how silly I feel. I feel embarrassed at my silliness, and I LOVE my embarrassing silliness *takes deep brfeath*) and I STILL feel he is GORGEOUS even now. I’d also jump Johnny Depp and he’s 47. 😉

  204.  #204tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    “So now I have a question from your last post, Tinque. What if I wanted to have the sexy 50 yo help me to get past my feelings of guilt and (whatever) where sex is concerned. Is it better to do that now or wait for the man who will adore all of me?”

    How can you be sure just because he’s 50 he can do this, Siena?
    Chances are he is out to use you, and you will feel worse than ever. I may be wrong about him, but…
    If you think you can have a fling and not become attached and then ultimately hurt, then yes go have fun.
    But from what I have read about you, I don’t think you can do this.
    There can be a really nice man for right now for you, but I don’t think he is the one.
    I’m not saying to wait for the ring before having sex. But you will know if a man is someone with whom you can at least have a loving bond.
    May I suggest starting with you all by yourself for your exploration so that when you do meet someone who at least has potential, you won’t feel weird or ill at ease.
    You will feel at least somewhat more comfortable to take your exploration further.
    But quite honestly, the real, amazing stuff happens when you are with someone you love deeply, and he loves you back as much.
    And the longer you are together the better it gets and the more you continue to discover things within, new sensations etc. if you consciously play (work) to find them.

  205.  #205heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Brenda – I feel dismay at the idea that men/women in our age group are used up! I’m 50 and feel far richer inside and more attractive on the outside. The only time I feel used up is when I’m down on myself.

    Siena I’ve had two older lovers same age difference as you and Mr 50 – and I felt safe and horny and free to be myself totally.

    The one time my sex drive dropped was when I was losing myself with younger man (11 yrs younger – and he was drop dead gorgeous) and feeling a lot of fear in the relationship and other life stuff. I even got an appointment with a sexual therapist at the menopause clinic. But voila – when I began to feel better about myself… 🙂

  206.  #206Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Shannon — It was a complex process that sort of evolved naturally with a bunch of things coming together at the same time — books I was reading, insights and experiences I was having, and then TN man appeared in my life and put all the pieces together for me (over a period of time).

    I will look back through my correspondence with him later to see if there’s anything specific I can share that might help you.

    In the meantime, I would just ask God, “How can I heal this shame and guilt I have around sex?” and then don’t try to figure it out — wait for the answer to come to you through your life experiences and inner knowing.

    It was a shock to me when my marriage reflected the same shame that my pre-marital sexual experiences did! I feel so amazed and relieved and grateful that TN man helped me make sense of that. Now I am completely free of shame (in all areas, not just sex), and I can consciously choose what I WANT to do with my sexuality.

    Marriage in and of itself was not the antidote to shame/guilt that I expected it to be. The key was what I wrote above — that the shame was inside me and I was manifesting shameful experiences to reinforce that, even in marriage.

  207.  #207tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Bren – May I ask you to do something for yourself? Please stop saying “Bad Bren”. You are NOT bad. You have stumbled and fallen down just as all of us have.
    So what. You are learning and growing, and you are here, a big wonderful step if you ask me.

  208.  #208Siena on April 28, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Thanks Tinque. It’s not his age, it’s his manly maness that makes me think he could do this. And I don’t think he’s the one either, which is why I’m wondering if it would feel safer.

    It is playing with fire I guess.

    I don’t want to sleep with him if it will hurt me. Only if it will help me stay on my bridge to Happily Ever After… Hmmmm….

  209.  #209Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Would you like it if Bren beats herself up? Sorry! Sorry! Sorry! I didn’t mean to offend anyone!

    I will also repeat from something I wrote yesterday that I had a major crush on Larry Norman from Age 9 and he was 17 years older!!! I retract my naughty statements! They were just personal baggage, okay?

    Siena, I feel bad, afraid I’ve scared you off. Didn’t mean to. I like Tinque’s last post to you and I second it. I have learned to distrust at a far deeper level than I did when I was younger. Sorry if my jaded self is naughty. Just in process, as always. Willing to be corrected.

  210.  #210heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Those little lines at the corner of older men’s eyes make me feel raaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

    But it’s the life experience and soft conversations late into the night that really turns me on.

  211.  #211Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Thanks, Tinque! Good Bren! I easily feel shame…still learning how to deal with those yucky feelings, along with not wanting to hurt or offend anyone. I think very highly of Siena and I want her to put a high pricetag on her lovely self! 🙂

  212.  #212heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Brenda I love your openness xx

  213.  #213tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Lucy – that’s a difficult question, the age group thing. It could vary depending on how old you are, for example the age difference between a 20 yr. old and a 30 yr. old in most cases would be huge, but the difference between a 50 yr. old and a 60 yr. old maybe not so?
    I don’t know because a 60 yr. seems old to me, so maybe what I just said is not true.
    Any age difference within reason can work, but in most cases I would venture to say that more than five years could be iffy.
    Everyone is different. For me being seven years older than my ex was not good though he had issues far beyond the age difference, but it has worked beautifully for Rori.
    I realize I haven’t really answered your question, but maybe I have.

  214.  #214Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Brenda — That’s interesting to me “Maybe the reason I have turned into a cougar is BECAUSE I feel young at heart. I feel more attracted to younger men.”

    I feel young at heart, too, and that makes me feel attracted to MEN MY AGE who are also young at heart!

    There is a 25 year old who has been chasing me for six months. I feel minimal attraction toward him. I do not feel at all flattered by his attention and interest, like my friends think I should. To me it’s just funny. AND, he actually makes me feel OLDER just because he’s so young! (the contrast)

    I don’t like it. I want a grown-up man. 🙂

  215.  #215Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Thanks, Heartbeat! Open Bren, Good Bren! LOL! I really am such a little girl inside. Still looking for approval I will never get from my two older brothers. Their eternal view of me is “Bad Bren”. So I will go on practicing good Bren, open Bren! LOL! I want Siena’s approval now. 🙁

  216.  #216tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Siena – “It is playing with fire I guess.”
    It seems as though you have answered your own question, and that you asked it in the first place was telling.
    Enjoy his manly man presence. If he treats you like a queen, revel in it, but the rest….

  217.  #217Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I feel it’s all bout maturity, not age. I missed MANY rites of passage in my isolation, and so I relate much better to teenage girls and women in their 20s. When I was with Ryan, I felt 25 again! Now I feel all tickly cuz I am gonna lose weight and look 25 again, too!

  218.  #218Siena on April 28, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Bren, you didn’t scare me off. I’m just feeling my way thru all of this. I would love to hear your story, but I feel weird about hearing it as a cautionary tale. I’ve kept myself so hidden for so long because of all the gremlins, the what ifs. I wonder if, rather than hiding away, I would have just let myself live a little … Whether I would be in a better place today.

    AJ I feel so supported. Thank you! I have a hard time with just the type of women you describe.

    Gosh, Sirens! This is a new place for me! I need to spend some time in my feelings and see what surfaces…

  219.  #219tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    And another thing Bren, you don’t have to apologize, especially here, unless of course you call someone some outrageously nasty name. lol
    I as probably many here also come from a place of deep guilt, and this is not an easy one. It may never go away entirely, and this is okay. It will leave you alone more and more though the more you learn and work on you.
    The traces that may remain can be a lovely reminder from where you have come.

  220.  #220Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Siena, thanks. I don’t mean to make you feel weird or uncomfortable. Sorry. I will share as I feel comfortable and I will let you share as you feel comfortable. Above all, I support whatever decisions you make that feel right for you.

    I tend to get all over-enthusiastic about “helping” people. And I need to lean back in this area, too, and just BE, while letting other people BE. Not sure how to approach it when I feel danger for someone.

    I need to go now. Nice chatting with you all!

  221.  #221tinque on April 28, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Siena – “I wonder if, rather than hiding away, I would have just let myself live a little ”

    Wondering will get you nowhere. It can only make you feel bad. Your life has transpired exactly as it needed to for YOU.
    Our lessons come to us at exactly the right time as do the messengers.

  222.  #222Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Thanks, Tinque! That was very kind. Overall, my M.O. is to not hurt people. I feel bad when I accidentally do. I never do it intentionally. I look forward to exploring your website!

    I’ve cum a long way in sexual uninhibitedness and explored soooo much…bed is truly a playground…or table…floor…beach…water…car…as the case may be! Scandalous giggles!

  223.  #223Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Siena — He can’t “use” you if you are making a conscious decision to take him as a lover with no expectations.

    I feel perplexed when women talk about men “using” them — as if the woman is getting nothing from it!

    If you want to explore your sexuality with him, then you are just making a choice to do that.

    It is completely different from exploring by yourself, imo.

    Sure, with mutual deep love there is an added dimension. Yes. But it doesn’t negate the pleasure and comfort and relaxation and feedom and fun you can have with a man you’re not in love with.

    After TN man helped me work through my shame, being with a man that way was what burned the new insights, the shift, into my physical being.

    I ended up ending that relationship after a couple months because 1) he wasn’t that good in bed! and 2) he was falling in love with me, I didn’t feel the same way, so it was getting really uncomfortable for me.

    The big thing — follow your GUT!!!!

    More hugs to you, Siena! <3

  224.  #224J-Rock on April 28, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    “I am scared what I post after reading what happened with J-Rock”

    Brenda, I am so sorry! I feel sad. Nothing has happened, nothing has been said, it’s just a hunch I have based on how he said he had looked through the RR glossary, and the recent comments are right there. I was so active the other day, my name could’ve popped up while he was looking. He is not a bad or scary man — quite the opposite. Just very much attached to me and knows how my mind is always working a mile a minute. He wants inside.

    Having said that, I don’t feel afraid if anyone reads anything I posted here, nor do I feel vulnerable to having my words used against me. If anyone, man OR woman, is so threatened by my thoughts and feelings and conversations with other women on the internet that it influences what they think of me and how they interact with me, so be it. I really don’t think my friendship and relationship with him is that fragile, but maybe it is.

    I had a very un-RR day with him yesterday. I am relentless with him, and I don’t know why. PMS? Maybe. But I know I need to give him a break, I need a break, and I really need this board right now. I love reading everything. You all inspire me so much! I listened to the part of Modern Siren today that talked about the cage, and flying, and how it was okay to hang out in the cage if you needed to. That feels safe.

    (thinking up a new username…)

  225.  #225Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Lucy, I feel USED by a man when I sense all his words and actions are motivated out of self-centered motives. I’ve learned to intuit them a mile away. No thank you…next?

  226.  #226heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    My experience of having a ‘lover’ – I felt curious and passionate, I was very honest and wide open about my feelings, whatever mood I was in, whatever I was thinking. I knew I didn’t want the man as a life partner but found him interesting and attractive. I felt in control through being able to ask for what I wanted. I felt protected too. Though it wasn’t my sexuality I was exploring – without realising it fully at the time, I was exploring what we’re learning here – being totally authentically me. Even today I remember how I felt with those two men at different stages in my life and I want to feel that safe and free with a life partner.

  227.  #227Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Hi J-Rock, having a hard time pulling myself away from Siren Island today! 🙂 I have learned what you don’t know CAN hurt you. The internet is waaaay too open of a playing field. Some people will hurt you not cuz they know you or not cuz you did anything against them. Just cuz they enjoy hurting others. I wish this was an exclusive site. I wish people entering were screened somehow, or at least ladies only. I feel vulnerable. Rori? How do you feel about that? Your Jaded Siren who’s been hurt waaay too much, Good Bren

  228.  #228heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Lucy – I feel very excited by your last comment (about lovers) yes love what you wrote

  229.  #229Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Thanks, Tinque. So, well, you know, my favorite guy will soon be 45 and I will soon be 48, and that age difference feels really good to me. And it feels good to think that maybe he wouldn’t connect deeply with a woman who is younger than 40 (the five year limit). 😀 Haha!

  230.  #230Brenda on April 28, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Okay, I really AM going now! My last statement of the day?

    I LOVE RYAN! Hehehehehehe!

    The Cougar!

  231.  #231heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    J-Rock – hugs – I’m going to reincarnate soon too. I feel a little inhibited since Stalker Guy.

    One of my patterns is taking on challenges, which was a good step at one time. But now I want to experiemnt with making things feel a little softer on myself. And I feel like a new identity anyway 🙂

  232.  #232J-Rock on April 28, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Brenda, that seems like a tricky thing to enforce. For instance, I’m a woman with a traditionally male name. Nothing like today’s trendy gender-neutral names, it’s straight-up male! No wonder I have issues with reining in the boy energy!

    But Rori does moderate every initial post, so that hopefully cuts down on random posts…

  233.  #233Daria on April 28, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I THINK all women are sirens even though some aren’t aware of it.

  234.  #234heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Lol! There are so may threads to this thread I feel EAGER 🙂

    I can’t get a feel around the age thing – in my head an ideal is 5yrs either way, but then I’ve felt good with men over 10yrs younger or older. I’m with Lucy – a man in my age group who feels as young as I do.

    I also feel easier with men who have kids, even if they are grown. I feel more softness and humour and maturity with them.

    So the Universe will likely send me a childless 70yr old who sets my heart on fire like no other lol! Who knows?? Just bring on the feeling U, I’m ready!!

  235.  #235J-Rock on April 28, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Hugs back, heartbeat! <3 See you on the flipside!

  236.  #236Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Bren — “I feel USED by a man when I sense all his words and actions are motivated out of self-centered motives.”

    The question here is, what are you doing with him?

    If everything he says and does is self-centered, then YOU make a CHOICE. If you continue to give parts of yourself to him and you feel “used” because of it — well, you are doing it to yourself.

    Eleanor Roosevelt said “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

    I add a corollary: “No one can use you without your consent.”

  237.  #237Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Thanks, heartbeat! Glad you liked it! <3

  238.  #238Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    All — I would avoid writing about your intentions to change your name; that makes it easier to track you when you do. Just change it quietly.

  239.  #239Daria on April 28, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Siena – I personally would totally go for it. I woudl experiment releasing the baggage and take the sexy man as a lover. Since my intention woudl be to heal myself, that is what I will get.

    Now i would also have fears that it may not all feel good… I will feel triggered.. just like CD…

    I want to heal myself, so I trust that WHAT I WANT is good for me, and go for it, expecting to walk into joy and let it simply be joy

    I decided to allow myself to do this. My holdback was similar, I ama pure woman etc. I simply don’t have those types of hangups anymore!

    I feel l ike a powerful virgin=woman owning her sexual power.

    I can take a lover whenever I want, for pleasure!

    And I am also wanting my forever relationship. But not so I can allow myself pleasure then.

    I allow myself pleasure now and always, and my relationship is about relationship.

  240.  #240heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Mr Big is back. Mr Big was a CD guy from 3yrs ago before my last relationship. I feel utterly intrigued! Mr Big is hinting at coming on holiday with me. I like Mr Big, we laugh a lot, talk like crazy and I can be as daft or soft or clever as I like. I’m just noticing my intriguedness and ripples. Feeling very grateful to have had plenty of practice since we were last in touch. I feel curious about the concept of soulmates getting ready for one another. Orna mentioned this and I also read it in ‘In the Meantime’. That feels exciting and comforting.

  241.  #241Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Yes, Daria, well put: “Since my intention woudl be to heal myself, that is what I will get.”

    Exactly. <3

  242.  #242tinque on April 28, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    I second the motion Daria.

  243.  #243heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Daria that feels powerful!

  244.  #244Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    “Now i would also have fears that it may not all feel good… I will feel triggered.. just like CD… ”

    When TN man was helping me work through this, he actually mentioned the fact that the next time I have sex, “a lot of stuff will come up to heal.” He said to be prepared that it might feel overwhelming, and not to worry or judge my feelings or experience, but to just process whatever emotions surface with love and acceptance and tenderness toward myself.

  245.  #245heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Tinque I think your flower remedies are working and I haven’t even got them yet! lol! xxxx

  246.  #246Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    heartbeat — can you elaborate on the idea of “soulmates getting ready for each other”?

  247.  #247tinque on April 28, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    This is for everyone. This has always been a safe place for any and all, and to the best of my knowledge, this has never been abused.
    Men have dropped by here and there, and to get some male perspective can be wonderfully refreshing and enlightening.
    That said, J-Rock, I understand your feelings of ickyness at the idea that someone you would rather not be reading all about your inner feelings would be lurking.
    Why don’t you ask him instead?
    It feels sad to me that you think you have to hide by using yet another alias.

  248.  #248Daria on April 28, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I would like to invite the ladies tweaking around healing guilt to check out Mama Gena’s Books.

    They totally opened me up to allowing, shoot focusing me on my PLEASURE.

    The books are ebook – like Mama Gena’s guide to the womanly arts.

    and Mama Gena’s operating guide to men.

    they are like 8 bucks only!

  249.  #249tinque on April 28, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    heartbeat – Carrie’s from Sex and the City Mr. Big?

    That’s some powerful flower remedy. lol

  250.  #250heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Lucy – a siren may be ready and wondering where is he? “I am ready and why is no-one showing up?” – Mr Prince may be getting ready in his soul-time.

    I feel very relaxed at that idea. OK I can do what I’m doing and all will be well. I can keep on healing and growing or just letting myself loose and enjoying myself.

    Which feels really delightful and naughty too.

  251.  #251heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Tinque lol!!! Yeah how did you know? 😉

  252.  #252tinque on April 28, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    soulmates getting ready for each other – I can give you my example. It’s about as great a one as it gets or maybe as tangible.
    K and I knew each other in ballet class eighteen years ago now. I worked on his face once (facial massage) of which I have no memory which is very strange because I have the memory of an elephant.
    (My theory around this is that there was a huge attraction on both our parts, but I was married, and I just don’t go there even if things are bad which they were. I believe in finishing old business before starting new. K totally remembers all of this. But he doesn’t cross that line either.)
    Our paths went different ways, and ten years later, I finally left my ex. I wasn’t out of the house two weeks when a girlfriend wanted to fix me up on a blind date. I had asked her jokingly in passing if she knew anyone my age.
    It turns out K had asked the same thing the day before. She knew him through the theater venue. I knew her through ballet.
    When I was described to K, he knew right away who I was and was very excited to see me again.
    I didn’t realize it was him until I heard his voice on the phone.
    We have been together ever since.
    I feel strongly that we were meant to be, call it soulmates. But when we first met, we weren’t ready for each other. We both had a lot of work to do on self.
    As you can see, practically the moment I was available again, our energies called out to each other, “Hey, remember me? I’m over here.”

  253.  #253heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Tinque – my heart is smiling! Thank you for your story. xxxx

    I’ve had exes back to learn from (ouch… but…), and feel open to meeting any from a new place. A ripply curious place, not a wow fantasy place.

    Though that feeling is jumping up and down too.

  254.  #254heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Mr Big is not an ex though, he’s a former CD guy, never got beyond mild flirtation. We met in a business network, I was enjoying silly banter in a group when I suddenly felt his attention. I call him Mr Big cuz he’s high up in a profession, though I didn’t know that at the time. I feel very proud of myself that I’m not feeling in awe. Just kind of mmmm butterfly stomach and horny. *heartbeat keeps gimlet eye on bridge – pictures magic shoes which prevent her stepping off*

  255.  #255tinque on April 28, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    heartbeat – sounds fun, maybe even exciting…

  256.  #256Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Oh dear, I’m back and have yet to go through the posts where I left off.

    I left off at Siena saying she feel supported…*thumbs up* Siena. I have strong feelings when women lose touch with their sireness and feel like they have to act malicious towards the ones who ARE in touch. That’s a big trigger for me. I have often been a target of what the world might like to call, “female jealousy.” My heart palpitates, my muscles tighten and my teeth clench, I feel like going into attack mode. I also have a flipside where I feel knowing that underneath all of that are truly majestic sirens and they just have not tapped into it yet, so I do feel that with every fiber in my body and that softens me. But my first and foremost feelings are protectiveness towards you (Siena), with a feeling of soft anger towards those who act on the qualities opposite of who they really are.

    Brenda – Good Bren, Bad Bren, all Bren is a loveable Bren. 😉

  257.  #257Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    K, went back through the posts. It was great to see J-Rock, heartbeat and Daria. And the posts from Lucy and Tinque and Daria about taking on a lover felt really enlightening and balancing to read.

  258.  #258Daria on April 28, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    For my healing:

    Long-standing low-level depression, smoldering anger that is never expressed, bitterness and vengeance projected into the future are all known to depress immune functioning. Prayer, affirmations, positive thinking – no matter what you call it, talking lovingly to yourself builds powerful immunity. One of the fiercest old women I know, healer Margo Geiger, taught me to not only think good thoughts but also to unthink immune system stressing phrases like: “This is killing me,” or “I’m dying to . . .” (“Let’s live for it!” she’d say.)

    from a Susun Weed article

  259.  #259heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Daria – I was just feeling thankful to you before as I slathered on some Forces of Nature oils, so reading your comment on immune thoughts has got me feeling all eager-beaver again.

    I’m having pre-shingles symptoms again, and I’m certain it’s connected to the anger, frustration and exhaustion I felt over the last few days not getting enough sleep or peace. I finally spoke to my neighbours upstairs about the soundproofing/noise – using feeling messages! I said I’m shaking, I feel embarrassed… Well, they guessed and were very apologetic and offered to contribute to the cost. So I ended up feeling good.

    On a deeper level it also feels about change – I feel like I’m wriggling out of a tight, ill-fitting jacket. I sense wonderfulness coming, and for now my feelings are all deep colours.

  260.  #260heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    I decided not to take anti-virals this time. Maybe the rash needs to come out, maybe it’s the jacket coming off and the pain coming out and away. I feel trust in the process.

  261.  #261heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    I feel inspired to share Tonglin meditation. It’s a breath meditation that seems the opposite of what I’ve learned before but I felt amazed at the transformation I had and wanted to skip around the room.

    Breath into the feeling (e.g. sadness, anger) and breath out light loving energy. It feels amazing!

    I’m used to breathing in and then releasing any tension etc on the out breath. But I love this, and I read you can breathe into your feelings connected to others pain and breathe out healing energy – healing yourself and others.

  262.  #262heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Tonglen, not Tonglin – and here’s a link, it’s by Pema Chodron, wise woman

  263.  #263Daria on April 28, 2010 at 5:00 pm


    I felt uncomfortble before breathing out tension… never did feel that… this feels magic power dragon healing breath out nostrils

  264.  #264heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Each of us has a “soft spot”: the place in our experience where we feel vulnerable and tender. This soft spot is inherent in appreciation and love, and it is equally inherent in pain.

    Often, when we feel that soft spot, it’s quickly followed by a feeling of fear and an involuntary, habitual tendency to close down. This is the tendency of all living things: to avoid pain and cling to pleasure. In practice, however, covering up the soft spot means shutting down against out life experience. Then we tend to narrow down into a solid feeling of self against other.

    One very powerful and effective way to work with tendency to push away pain and hold onto pleasure is the practice of tonglen. Tonglen is a Tibetan word that literally means “sending and taking.” The practice originated in India and came to Tibet in the eleventh century. In tonglen practice, when we see or feel suffering, we breathe in with the notion of completely feeling it, accepting it, and owning it. Then we breathe out, radiating compassion, lovingkindness, freshness; anything that encourages relaxation and openness.


  265.  #265heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    I’m dragon-nostrilling right with ya Daria!

  266.  #266heartbeat on April 28, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    I get straight into my emotions this way, and heal and release. It feels very soup-y.

  267.  #267diamond on April 28, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I love all the tips and exercises and poetry. It feels very sexy. 🙂

  268.  #268tinque on April 28, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    heartbeat – you may already know this, L-Lysine for shingles, an amino acid available in any health food store. If the blisters have erupted, St. John’s Wort Oil will ease the discomfort. I make this one.

  269.  #269Cinnamon on April 28, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    I feel really inspired by this thread and wanted to share some good news…and bad. But first the good. Was panicing at the weekend as booked myself out so couldn’t see LS as he didn’t ask. It felt scary but also freeing.(bacground to LS we have been together 6 months and after being lively and affectionate, lots of compliments and contact did a uturn a couple of months ago) Good news- had loads of texts over weekend from him and sawhim Sunday night as pre arranged. It was like a glympse of the old LS. He was affectionate and loving and asked straight away when I was free next weekend. 🙂 but then since then feels like it’s gone back and just had very strange text exchange with him. It really triggers me when I don’t hear from him all week or he sends texts which are cool. The old me would reply whatever but my new siren me leant back.
    So when the only text I got yesterday was one about his shopping trip with no ‘how are you’ or anything warm – no questions or anything asking for a reply I leaned back and didn’t reply. Tonight I got a ‘are you still alive text’ that’s just two texts in two days.
    The old me would have not been authentic or mentioned how the texts made me feel. But I felt I needed to say so I said I felt closed down and disconnected by the cold texts and don’t reply to texts that make me feel like that. The response was ‘it’s little to do with me based on recent events so I’ll leave you to it’ ??? Major triggering and confusion. asked him what recent events with no reply.
    I think I then made mistake by lapsing into explaining as he said that I had ‘changed my mind overnight with no input from him’ so I explained why the texts made me feel bad.

    Tried to redeem this by then saying ‘i felt closed down by your text and didn’t want to pretend I wasn’t. What do you think we could do to make me not feel closed down’ he replied ‘i have no idea as still don’t understand why closed down’ my reply just said that I reply to texts that feel warm and intimate and not like it could easily be sent to any other female friend. Last text from him ‘same goes for yours as you will realise’ ??
    I feel glad that I was authentic but also scared as the old me would not have created yet more tension and just replied as if it was all fine. Any tips for what I do now and what you sirens would have done differently? Re listening to reconnect and feel sure that I did ok with the feeling messages but managed to piss him off and get his defences up? Reconnect is an amazing programme by the way 🙂

  270.  #270Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I feel scared and worried by this. How do we protect ourselves against it?

  271.  #271Daria on April 28, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Lucy – I feel safe. we can just protect ourselves by having boundaries and trusting ourselves.

    ps we can also get teh program and use it ourselves lol

  272.  #272Turtle Girl on April 28, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    I am feeling very non judgmental over the whole age thing with Sienna and other comments. I feel we all have lessons to learn and different people can show up with the message. But I want to say-what is your gut telling you?

    I have some friends-she is 55 and he is 76 I think. They met 20 years ago when she was 35, they married and have been in love for 20 years. The age thing was no issues with them.

    I am 55 and I feel really oung some days, and I am lucky to look really young for my age too. I don’t care for men in my age group. I seem to like 50 to 37 better than 55 to 65. They seems old to me.
    I am one of those china doll army women that Jennifer always refers to and I take really good care of my health. No smoking, lite drink if at all and no drug, and hit the gym-so I stay young physically.
    The older guys all seem “old” to me. But I see lots of men in their fifties and up that are really attractive, so it really is individual decisions as to age. Now, most men at 50 do not date 35-40 year old women. I have talked to my cd’s about this. They say that although the women are young and attractive and it is an ego boost, that the age difference in compatibility personality wise usually does not work out….so in that respect I have to agree with Tinque.

    It really is individual and again, what does your gut say. If my gut is tellin gme that that 37 yo man I think is hot is gonna hurt me and dump me for a younger women in ten years, then well, I prolly will not date him. I want to feel safe and honest about the relationship. IMHO xxxooo

  273.  #273Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Daria, I thought the same thing — buy the program!!

    But as far as feeling safe because of boundaries and trusting ourselves… that’s the point — it teaches how to mess those things up for women so we don’t realize what is happening.

  274.  #274Lucy on April 28, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    It teaches men how to make women feel safe and loved with them.

  275.  #275Daria on April 28, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    I feel totally safe wiht my boundaries and loving myself.

    men don’t need a secret method to mess us up, make us feel safe and loved, and get us to throw ourselves off our bridge.

    I don’t care how safe and loved i feel by him, I will happily continue on my bridge and he can lead me there.

    Throwing myself in a pit for him, well i’ll just get back on the bridge again.

    I just feel totally secure that I am in charge of me, and all the secret techniques in the universe are not gonna work because I’m securely anchored in my love for me.


    i see. Message.

    this applies to my non man interactions. for example my healing.

    I intend to anchor myself in my love for me in regards to my health. all the scares predictions, statistics, symptoms etc are not gonna shake my love for me.

  276.  #276Daria on April 28, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I’m listening to I wanna love you by bob marely. and here come my tears.

    Until now i haven’t really allowed myself to be loved by a man.
    I didn’t plan a wedding.

    I felt really shocked beyond shocked when the lil boy rejected me when i chased him at 6. and then i had to prove myself that i Could get every man i want.

    that was my goal with Rori’s programs.

    I’ve won. I’ve reached my goal (I even got that lil boy when i was 12)

    now what do i want?

    do i want guywhohadababy?

    eh maybe

    i want me more powerful in business and world and liberation and

    and i want to open up to a relationship that feels good. and children. even tho i don’t know what that feels like. ok even though it feels BORING and scary and like shutting down my options and feeling

    Depressed! aha I love me.

    i love all my feelings

    thatnk you for the healing.

  277.  #277Daria on April 28, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    I want to DO stuff in the world. I want to free people.

  278.  #278Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Yikes about that site Lucy. I admit it does look scary, but my intuition tells me that this just cannot work on every woman. I’ll bet as soon as the book and materials are bought it gives clues as to who and what mindset will be most likely vs. least likely targets to these types of manipulations.

    Also there are ways to tell if someone is trying to control you, we are born with a set of instincts that cannot juet easily be broken. If we have our convictions and if they are firm, it’s really not that easy to just tear them up, you know? I can never just worship any man and make him the “focal point” like this program says. That alone is a red flag for me. I for myself and hopefully the guy I spend the rest of my life with, will have other reasons and callings to live for besides just me (and me just him). I just can’t help but feel that we’re all here on this earth to fullfill our purpose and find our callings, and worshiping another human being like within the context of a romantic relationship, and chaning my identity at his whim, frankly isn’t even romantic at all! I feel nauseated. I can fall in love, but that is just…my intestines are knotting up. I like who I am too much and I’m attached to the way I was brought up and my convictions as a result. That attachment just can’t be broken, which I feel confident as is for a lot of women. 🙂

  279.  #279Siena on April 28, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    well, I spent some time in my feelings today, looking at what I really want in the situation with sexy man. His age wasn’t such a big deal to me, except to illustrate how I understand that he is probably not my guy.

    My truth is that I really do want to be in a solid, intimate relationship before I take him as a lover. This is not far from how I’ve (mostly) lived my adult life, except with one big difference. In the past, I’ve stayed (mostly) celebate because of issues of guilt and religion. Now I really want to do it not because of what anyone tells me to do, but it feels right to me. At least at this point. And it might change, too! Depends on where I am in life and how I feel about the situation when it next presents itself.

    So I was honest with sexy man about this (because we talked about it), and he wants to date me. I feel very relieved that I am choosing my path rather than allowing someone else choose it for me.

    I had another moment today where I marveled at the magic of these tools! I have received nothing but good, positive feedback from men when I’ve used the tools. I feel so confident that my happily ever after is close! And it feels amazing!! And possible!! Yay!!

    Thank you all for being my support as I worked thru my feelings. I love to read the different stories and perspectives, because as I read them, I can check my feelings about them, and this has been invaluable as I walk my path. I love you Sirens!! Thank you!!

  280.  #280Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Gosh Siena, I feel so excited for you! I also really feel that in this regard you are doing, and will continue to do, what is right for you. That’s why I feel so excited for you! *clapping hands* Good luck 🙂

  281.  #281TaraI'm on April 28, 2010 at 7:53 pm


    I’m confused by your comment that my texting S “if you want to see me, just ask” is PUSHING him away.
    I don’t understand. Please explain?

    S generally confuses me anyway becuz he’s very fem-energy. He rarely takes any initiative but when I initiate, he responds. That particular txt resulted in him telling (today) that tomorrow looks good for us meeting.
    He didn’t give me time/place, though. That makes me irritated.

    That’s happened before. He either says he didn’t see my text or he was in surgery and couldn’t respond, or he’s still trying to make time in his day and will get back to me. That last one always results in him saying he can’t get away. He has a medical job, so all this may be true, but it’s still frustrating as hell.

    I’m going to be strong and Lean Back and not text him tomorrow AT ALL, even if it means we don’t see each other for who-knows-how-long.

    But I still would like to know what you meant — I want to understand better. Does it work the same way with fem-energy guys?

  282.  #282EarthDancer on April 28, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    @#149 Brenda
    @#182 Tinque

    Oh Brenda I am feeling so triggered by your post, I feel scared I feel judgmental I feel MAD MAD MAD … Because I am close to 50 and there are SO MANY men my age who are going for “arm candy” as Tinque says and there’s very few single ones here to go around anyway and ARRRGGGHHH GRRRRRRR stomp spit … we women of a similar age are ALSO PRIZES!!!!!!!!!!! I am a beautiful lovely siren also!!!!!!!! even if I’m no longer in my 30’s ….

    I love my anger, I love my fear, I love my judgments, I love my madness, I love my stomping feet , tightness in my chest, sadness in my heart, i love my sighs , i love my achiness, i love my spitting 🙂

    thank you, Tinque, for your comment xoxox

  283.  #283Rori Raye on April 28, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Laura, Welcome and I’m so glad you’re going to counseling. The question is not about him – this has nothing to do with him. Any man that would leave you in the night is automatically disqualified. To be angry with him is misplaced – you have to ask yourself “Why am I here?” and face it squarely. You must slowly, baby-step STOP doing things that are hurtful to you – number one here is pining after a man who is making you feel bad just by doing what he’s doing. He’s ONLY doing what he’s doing. YOU are the one hurting YOU by WANTING him – and by BEING THERE!! and YES – you can stop wanting him. It’s a process, baby-steps, and we’ll help you all we can. Love, Rori

  284.  #284EarthDancer on April 28, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    I feel ashamed of my rant; I love my rants, thank you rants.
    I feel light bulb of awareness went off because of my triggering. Thank you triggering, I love my triggers,
    I love my moments of awareness, thank you Awareness.
    Thank you Brenda, for making me aware of my triggers.
    I feel softer now, I love my softness, thank you softness.
    I feel achy hurt in my heart, I love my achy hurt, thank you achy hurt.
    I feel tightness in my chest, achy in my pelvis; i love my tightness, I love my achy pelvis, thank you.
    I feel frowning sorrow saaaaddddd, but no tears. thank you sorrow and sadness… I love my sorrow & sadness.

    I want to learn to shed tears and feel safe.

  285.  #285mary on April 28, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    I’ve been listening in as you’ve been discussing my favorite subject… and thinking a lot about it lately.

    It seems to me that for some reason, men and women are geared to bond with each other when they have sex. Sex is the ultimate boundary breaker. Two people actually become one for a few moments, and when they experience release, something happens in the psyche and the emotions and they feel closer to each other.

    For me to assume a casual stance towards this union, should I decide to do so, means that I must give up this mystical, psychic connection and view it as just a physical desire that can be met by another person.

    I’m not really sure I want to do that.

    Last fall I was dating a guy. We weren’t having sex, but we were kissing and making out a lot. It was so fun! But… I did not love him. And I saw for the first time in my life how easy it might be to just get really casual about the whole thing, and then the focus would be on ME, instead of US.

    I did not feel that way about my ex-fiancee. We truly loved each other. Still do. When we kissed, it was amazing and special, the way Tinque says it is with her man.

    I want that.

    I want the connection. I want the intimacy. I want the feeling of forever. I want the promise. I want the commitment.

    I don’t want sex to just be sex. I want it to be more. Give me the mystery. Give me the ecstasy. Give me the oneness. Give me forever.

    It doesn’t have anything to do with guilt. I’m Christian too, like many of you, and my idea is that the principals discussed in the Bible are not there to limit us; they’re there to protect us and help us to find a life that is full of meaning and purpose.

    Finding a man with whom I can have sex and know that he is mine and I am his would be meaningful to me.

    I’m gonna hold out for the dream, and I truly believe it will come my way.

  286.  #286Daria on April 28, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Tara –

    according to Rori’s work, anytime we initiate contact with a man, or invite him to meet, we are pursuing him and using our male energy. this pushes a man away.

    therefore texting him that message has the result of pushing him away

    i feel judgemental reading that text message –

    he KNOWS that if he wants to see you he can just ask. – which sux in the first place! you aren’t even available if he asks because your DIVA time is booked!!!

    i feel angry watching sirens lean forward!! (now the question to myself is – why do you feel angry? because they will crash and burn and take longer to heal than if they start working the tools this very instant… because i dont want to read unhappy stories and feel judgemental of women throwing themselves at men’s feet, only to get rejected… because I feel uncomfortable, and I feel drained reading stories of feeling bad when not using tools. and i Feel concerned there is less support for me when people aren’t taking good care of themselves

    and i feel like controlling them and i can’t and i CAN say that i feel angry and tight in the middle of my jaw

    i love my feelings

    i love my tightness

    i love my compassion for self and others

    i love my guilt

    i love my fear

    i love my judgement)

    I feel ANGRY

  287.  #287Daria on April 28, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    Tara – if you’re frustrated with him not stepping up, then you don’t want a fem energy guy.

    i’ve yet to see a woman who is masculine energy and wants a feminine energy guy – though i know its possible and they are there

    and no, if a woman WAS to DECIDE ahead of time:

    I will be masculine energy

    then I would do the pursuing.

    That means I Would call him. A LOT. I Woudl INSIST on taking him out, and paying. I would take him out on nice fun dates. I would grumble about him having a wife, and tell him I want to be with him, and that he can live with me, and we will raise his children half time if he cannot get full custody.

    I would buy him presents. I would Ask him out on dates with specifi times. IE RRRING : hi this is daria. I missed you. I want to take you out this week. When are you free?

    oh ok.

    I will pick u up tuesday at 11 30 after work. ok no?

    oh then wednesday at 9 30 am before work. I will bring you something to eat. I Can’t wait to see you.

    I wil call you beforehand to confirm.

    That is masculine energy.

  288.  #288mary on April 28, 2010 at 11:22 pm


    I want that masculine energy coming my way with Island Man!

  289.  #289Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Hey Daria,

    when you said that you have yet to see a masculine energy woman who wants a fem guy, that intrigued me because I have encountered the same thing. And I cannot help but feel puzzled at why this might be. *shruggs*

  290.  #290Daria on April 28, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Apple Jacks I meant – a woman who DECIDES to be in her masculine energy and have a fem guy. I haven’t really seen this too much, and haven’t on the blog.

    I think of couples who are lesbians or where both man and woman are bisexual that may fit where a woman Decides to be masculine energy.

  291.  #291Apple Jacks on April 28, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    I hear you Daria, and again I feel the same way. i have a good friend who is a very masculine energy woman, and she knows she’s not girly and does not have the desire to. But she makes it a point to say she cannot stand guys who are girly either and cannot stand to be in relationships with those kinds of men. And it’s not the first time I have encountered this type of thinking and I just feel puzzled.

  292.  #292mary on April 28, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Oh, YES!

    Island Man summoned up his masculine energy and ASKED ME OUT!

    I’m so thrilled.

  293.  #293Daria on April 28, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    Apple Jacks – then your friend is not DECIDING to be in masculine energy. she is just used to it.

    people used to think i wasnt girly. I wore boy clothes for a long time and I would feel really turned off by feminine energy men

    a woman who is not “traditional girly” might still be thrive as feminine energy in a relationship – what about Xena Warrior princess hehe

  294.  #294Daria on April 28, 2010 at 11:58 pm


  295.  #295mary on April 29, 2010 at 12:08 am

    Oh, yes, yes, YES! I’m OVER THE MOON!

  296.  #296mary on April 29, 2010 at 12:11 am

    And wow. I’m doing NO CONTACT with R and he just emailed. He wanted to tell me that the guy named Rick at the Four Plus Four dinner was his friend. Of course I knew that. And probably Rick knew I was THE Mary.

    I’m not gonna email him back.

    Oh, it hurts me to hurt him, but I know it’s best.

    And I’m going out with ISLAND MAN! And having a nice weekend, too.

    Thank you Rori. It’s nice to have this kind of encouragement to date lots of guys. It’s good perspective. I want to make a really good choice this time.

    Thank you.

  297.  #297mary on April 29, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Daria, my friend lost her dad this year. Then had to put her mom in a nursing home. Then lost her dog. Then suddenly she thought she was pregnant. She wasn’t, but it was excruciating to wait with her for the news.

    I feel for you.

  298.  #298Daria on April 29, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Thanks Mary. Im feeling very calm and chill.


    off of myspace

    so he starts talking to me in this way of talking…

    that sounds just like TRANSFORMER MAN!!

    I didn’t know that was GAME??!!!

    I thought it was the way transformer man talks.

    hehe. he (this new guy) even said.. you know u like it. hehe

    weird. i feel all hypnotized and turned on like i felt with Transformer man.

    i told him im gonna steal his game.

    it goes like thsi

    Baby… ey baybe… what would you do if i… blah blabh

    me: i dono

    babee. sit down.

    me: hold on

    babee. ey babee. etc etc.

    basically its like the sound is like asking someone like

    hey mary. have you ever blah blah

    its like calling someones attention

    like hey baby. can you hand me that?

    like theres a lil waiting pause after baybee

    or Daria…

    except i told him i felt irritated that he kept sayin my name like that so he said he was gonna call me baybee

    WAT THE HELL????

    men and game i swear

    see Lucy was just talking about secret hypnosis techniques

    this is one of them, and not out the books

    i wonder who he learned it from?



    i like feeling turned on. but i dont like feeling unheard.

    it feels very exciting tho.


  299.  #299Daria on April 29, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Mary. Hey mary. what would you do if i talked to you like this?

    mary. ey mary. what would you do if island man seduced u with this technique?

    mary. ey mary. heheeeee.

    i like it cuz hes very in charge.

    sit down.

    etc etc

    but. i also feel angry and weird. but confused.



    i feel thrilled.

    i am learning

  300.  #300softy on April 29, 2010 at 1:06 am


    I love this – I trust that WHAT I WANT is good for me, and go for it, expecting to walk into joy and let it simply be joy.


  301.  #301mary on April 29, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Mmmmmmm… I want to walk into joy.

    Does it work the other way?

    Island Man’s name is Alan. So… in a couple of emails I was just using his name, sometimes in the subject line, and then he told me he really loved me using his name like that.

    In my Plenty of Fish profile, there’s this line, when I’m describing the man of my dreams: “There is tenderness in your voice when you say my name.”

  302.  #302mary on April 29, 2010 at 1:17 am

    R used to do that, too.

  303.  #303heartbeat on April 29, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Tinque – thank you for the tip on shingles remedies! I noticed St John’s Wort on your products list, if the rash comes out I’ll order some xxxx

  304.  #304mary on April 29, 2010 at 1:41 am

    I’m kinda wondering this…

    In the olden days, when people couldn’t get around very easily, maybe they stayed with each other longer?

    And when I was younger, there was no Internet dating. You had to meet people in person somewhere. There weren’t any clubs for dating, or speed dating or anything like that.

    Now there is SO MUCH CHOICE! And it makes it easier to discard people. And disregard them. And it ups levels of expectation. And people expect to find the PERFECT MATE instead of becoming the perfect mate.

    I’m just wondering if it’s a vast improvement over the way it used to be.


  305.  #305Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:45 am

    hehe that was some of rori’s stuff. about the joy

  306.  #306Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:46 am

    this is not quite the tender thing. but it makes for thrilling stuff. haha. i had phone sex with an in charge 18yr old lol. who sounds like Transformer man.

    now im like. ook Transformer man. i gotcha.

  307.  #307Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:47 am

    in good news, my nani is no longer irritated! yay!

  308.  #308Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:47 am

    I think it was all that parsley juice i drank

  309.  #309Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:52 am

    i feel a lil sad that he tried to use it on me and stuff. the technique or wateva. i mean well.

    what do i mean?

    oh yeah. i feel a lil bad.

    but mostly i feel super excited because i’ve discovered this is a technique

    and cuz this means exciting sex is coming my way

  310.  #310dawn on April 29, 2010 at 6:07 am

    Daria, I manifested 1000 $ to my front door yesterday. Not kidding My ex husband drove 2 hours to give me money. It wasnt expected, this is his busiest time of year, hes an accountant. He said he just felt that he should do it ! I feel so very greatful and VERY surprsed ! I feel shocked!

  311.  #311dawn on April 29, 2010 at 6:29 am

    Brenda, We are all here for the same reason. We are all sisters with a common bond . I dont feel it necessary to judge myself or anyone else here . I feel bad . I feel confused. Perhaps with your continued presense here you will come to see yourself as a worthy goddess and not be so hard on yourself! I love my truth and sassyness!

  312.  #312Brenda on April 29, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Thank you, Dawn! Do I understand correctly you feel like I’m judging myself? Yes, I’ve been told more than once I’m too hard on myself. It’s hard to let it go after being treated harshly by my family for so many years. Baby steps!

  313.  #313Apple Jacks on April 29, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Daria, your post #293…oh I get it now, lol. That makes sense.

    Okay now if osmeone can help me out here, I got to the part in Rori’s book on the technique of find feelings. Now I’m practicing I feel….I don’t want….what do you think….

    I suppose that’s the first step, but how and when do we come to the riffing that some of you guys (especially Daria) do so well? Are there specific posts, or a specific program? Thanks anyone in advance.

  314.  #314Daria on April 29, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Apple Jacks yes there are. I feel glad to point you to them hehe.

    They are posts.

    ON the sidebar of the blog here —> you will see the POWER AND SELF ESTEEM CATEGORY

    go back to the Older posts, until you reach the post titled :

    Stop Solving Problems and Get More Love

    its here:

    its the second oldest post in that category (the oldest is register to vote )

    START THERE!!! with that post, the stop solving problems.

    Then DO the lists that Rori says in the following posts, one by one.

    All the way to the Channeling (including that one) post I think are the ones that teach us to Riff – and Channel

  315.  #315Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Daria! Isn’t that interesting that you had that experience right after I posted that link!!

    TN man used that “You know you like it” too!!

    “it feels very exciting tho. WAT IN THE WORLD!!! THESE BOYS ARE GENIUSES”


    So, then, what do you do with the feelings? Tell yourself they’re not real?

    And what does it mean when they talk to us this way? That they don’t really like us but are just trying to get something from us?

    I feel so intrigued that you just had that experience, Daria!

  316.  #316Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Yes, it IS very effective, as you said.

    And very much gives you that feeling that he is in charge — so confident and knows just what to say to make you feel good.

  317.  #317Apple Jacks on April 29, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Daria – WOW thanks! Reading the first post an all of your list already is triggering an inner process. I know making a list of these problems will be good for me to do, but I am feeling blocked a bit for some reason. I guess I feel like I made peace with a lot of these to do lists and fears/problems that delving into that again seems like it would be so daunting. All those lists sounded just like me three years ago. Especially the one from Tina where she was talking about being set up for marriage and all of that…been there, and thank God I am not there anymore. Even though SOME members of the family (not the important ones) still try to do those things, it doesn’t touch me anymore, as I have made that profound connection that it’s not about changing others but myself.

    I have made and found a lot of peace and overcame lots of mind chatter which swallowed me up, it feels like delving back into the neanderthal version of myself, that mindset. BUT, even though I have overcome a whole lot ( all due to just newsletters from Rori, Christian Carter and Marie Forleo’s book) does NOT mean I don’t struggle with getting in touch with my feelings. I’m tapping into it, but have so many more cobwebs to move before that comes easy.

    Despite the relief from the resolvment of my past, truth is I still have mind chatter to do lists that I cannot shake wich pertain to the present. Not as bad and not as heavy baggagey as then but I still have it nonetheless. It’s not as debilitating now in my life and relationships, but it’s still there and my intuition tell me to do this fully and firmly.

    I feel shocked at how I was taken aback by reading all of those lists, at how much I identified with each and every single one of them in some way or another. I feel overwhelmed and very triggered. I also feel confident and empowered. I guess I have work to do.

  318.  #318Daria on April 29, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Lucy –

    yes i got the feeling he was tryina get something from me.

    hehe. the few times i used feeling messages he got sucked in a lil bit haha.

    the feelings are real. i feel excited and also a bit bad –
    not what i want hehe

    he can tweak it

    i want a man that wants to please me

    and can use his powers to do so heheh

  319.  #319Laura on April 29, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    First. let me say that these blogs have helped me SO much the last few days. I am reposting because by the time it was given the thumbs up it had gotten buried and I’m hoping you guys can talk some sense into me : (

    My man of 6 years left once again. I feel like such a fool. He has been flip flopping back and forth for the past year between me and an internet person in the next state.

    This last time, I fell for all of his promises and let him move back in. Then he just leaves, packs up and leaves while I am sleeping.

    I am so confused right now. I feel so angry at myself right now. I gave him all of the power and he has used it against me to make me feel like I am just an option to him.

    How could I let this happen ?? I am so much smarter than that.

    HE has very low self esteem and the person he keeps running to, well, it makes NO sense to me. She is a married, convicted felon with 4 children that he does not like nor do they like him. But where is he at ?? With her.

    My self esteem has taken a beating for sure. He has hurt me and my son more than words can even begin to describe.

    I have set up an appointment for counseling, which I am glad for me on one hand, but pissed off on the other. He should be the one in counseling. But I know in the end it will only benefit me.

    Not sure if he will come back again, his pattern says yes, but he was actually living here this time so maybe things have changed. That is not even the point though–the point is is that I want to make myself strong again, I want the old me back. I want to be able to tell him NO WAY will I allow you to hurt me again !! NO WAY will I allow you back into our lives.

    My head is spinning with so many emotions. Anger, frustration, sadness, fear, disappointment and a few moments of relief all thrown together.

    I have to become stronger. I need to become stronger. I need to realize that his treatment of me and my son is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I need to be me again !!

  320.  #320Brenda on April 29, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Hello Laura, welcome! I am sorry you are hurting right now.

    I have plugged into this blog the past week or so, after listening to Rori’s CDs for a year. I find this place, Siren Island, a very nurturing, encouraging place. Already it is helping me put my focus on me, not on Ryan, the man I love.

    I hope you are listening to Rori’s CDs, and I just listen to them over and over, because my goal is for Rori’s wisdom and tools to become second nature to me!


  321.  #321Laura on April 29, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Thanks Brenda for the pat on the back. Just looking for some support.

    Unfortunately, I am pretty sure my man is a narcissist and I have heard that these are the people we need to run from. They are almost unfixable.

    He fits about 95% of the signs. : ( Can toxic men ever change ??

  322.  #322Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Laura — I feel curious about the signs you see in him.


  323.  #323Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 4:30 pm

  324.  #324Laura on April 29, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    This is super long but worth EVERY second of reading it:

    Common Behaviours of a Narcissist:

    Me versus You mentality **
    Tit for tat retaliations **
    Striving for the spotlight and attention **
    Excessive generosity to outside people
    Uncomfortable when others are incurring attention or praise
    If cant be centre of attention will either discredit or leave the experience **
    May fake illnesses or problems to procure attention sympathy
    Abusive verbal behaviour when angered or insecure **
    Tendency toward violent and even criminal behaviour
    Inappropriate and inapplicable language in front of women and children
    Dark moods that affect others **
    False promises **
    Glorifies and falsifies achievements past and present **
    Expects to be recognised and praised **
    Finds others not complying with wants intolerable **
    Extreme sensitivity to criticism **
    Extreme defensiveness when confronted **
    Pathological lying **
    Disdain for rules, regulations, decency and morality
    Childish outbursts and behaviour
    Very little consideration for how behaviour affects others **
    Extremely lack of compassion or sensitivity towards love partners (and others) problems **
    Grossly unsupportive to familiars in times of need **
    Brushes incidences under the carpet
    Uses allies real or imagined to back up claims and arguments
    Uses guilt and manipulation to influence love partners **
    Doesnt trust love partners **
    Tendency towards jealousy and possessiveness
    Capable of sexually degrading name calling
    Can steal, harm or hide property to sabotage love partners
    Uses vengeance, threats and intimidation to control **
    Uses excessive charm and manipulation to control **
    Little (if any) sense of conscience **
    Discredits love partners to gain attention sympathy from others **
    Will attack when confronted or questioned **
    Emotionally punishes love partners when feeling insecure **
    Emotionally punishes love partners when they are struggling with issues, losses, grief or challenges **
    Employs unpredictable and unaccountable behaviour **
    Capable of disgusting behaviour to gain the upper hand and control a situation **
    Feels powerful and fulfilled when creating powerlessness in another **
    Gross failure to apologise or have sympathy after creating tears, distress or trauma to the love partner **

    The ones I noticed I put an ** next too. Kinda scary. But…….. Seems like a sad situation for us : (

  325.  #325Daria on April 29, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    But these could apply to any one of us (ahem me) in different situations.

  326.  #326Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Laura — Where did you find that list?

    As bad as it seems, I don’t believe any human being is beyond hope. I have read a lot of Kim and Steve Cooper’s stuff, and they ackowledge that it is a very difficult path for a couple — but they achieved great success with their marriage and his NPD.

    Reading their writings may help you decide whether or not you even want a relationship with him.

  327.  #327Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Right, Daria, the difference is that in someone with NPD, these traits are predominant in their personalities and the way they approach life and relationships.

  328.  #328Laura on April 29, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    This is where I found it

    I have read the Cooper’s blogs, belong to their email list.

    Just sounds so scary. I have bought several of Rori’s programs, but wonder if they work on people that are toxic or have NPD.

    I know I would love to get my relationship back on track, but not sure if it’s possible if the other person cannot and/or will not admit to a problem.

    Because I cannot take all of the blame anymore. Too much information going thru my head right now. : P

  329.  #329Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Laura — Thanks for the link.

    I have recently come to believe that my ex-h probably has covert NPD. We had 10 or so decent years of marriage, but the last 5 were awful, and then when I found out about his “sex addiction” it was hell.

    That was 9 years ago. It took me about six years to get to the point where I am now: healed from the trauma of his behavior, and loving and accepting him as a human being but not willing to be reconciled with him in marriage.

    However, my hope and prayer for HIM is that he will find a reparative relationship with a strong, healthy person who has not lived through that trauma with him and is therefore able to love and support him through a relationship like the one that the Coopers have.

  330.  #330Laura on April 29, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Hi, I wish I could be as loving as you but it is all too new for me. I can only hope I can get to the point you are at.

    Only thing I am having an issue with and I know I shouldn’t be is who he left me for. She is a convicted felon, cocaine user, compulsive liar (we have busted her out SO many times), lost her kids to state but got them back(he does not like her children and 3 out of the 4 do not like him–he even has a confrontation with one of them)she lives in public housing, is on welfare, is still married even though she told him she was not and has cheated on him numerous times !! She is a sociopath !! OMG what is the draw ??

    So not only has his treatment of me sucked the life out of me, but his choice for my replacement has just floored me.

  331.  #331Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Shannon — I hear you. I was raised in a Christian home, went to Christian college, and have always had mostly Christian influences in my life.

    And always had a very strong sex drive.

    That combination was lethal to my self-esteem, and I spent a large part of my adolescence and young adulthood in penitent prayer, tears, depression, hopelessness, guilt, and shame because of it.

    In the past several years, I had a series of horrible experiences that eventually led me to question everything I had ever believed and been taught about God and Christianity. My entire faith and belief system were dismantled, and I started from scratch, rebulding my faith without any reference to anyone else’s interpretations of the Bible, God, doctrine, etc. In this process, I learned that so much of what I had been taught and believed were simply people’s opinions and interpretations.

    During that time, two years ago, I connected with TN man through, and found that he had taken a similar journey. We emailed for a month, but I was still in a very self-righteous, judgmental place, and kept badgering him with questions about his divorce because I wasn’t sure if he had “biblical grounds” (which I had). No wonder he soon disappeared!

    I was devastated, because we really had so much in common spiritually and emotionally, and he had seemed to like me at first. And it was the first time I had found someone who I felt made the pain of my failed marriage worthwhile. So I grieved, and my therapist helped me work through it.

    Three months later I was completely over him, he was out of my mind, and I had a crush on my daughter’s lit professor. I was vaccuuming the house and suddenly a voice inside my head said, “[TN man’s full name] will come back. And when he does, you need to be ready for him.” I was stunned. I assumed it was God, and I thought “be ready” meant “run for your life” (because at that time I didn’t yet realize that it was my fault he left! I thought he was just a jerk who had played with my heart).

    So I watched for his return. Months passed, and I finally decided the voice had been my imagination or something. And I forgot all about it. Literally.

    Two years later (last August), out of the blue, he facebook friended me! Suddenly I remembered the voice and felt astounded! We started chatting right away, and one of the first things he said was, “I’ve changed a lot in the past couple years.” And a month later he was saying to me, “You’re way more fun than you were last time!”

    And he was right — I had worked through so much garbage, had left a very unhealthy church (had been best friends with the narcissistic female pastor), and was so much more free, open, accepting, loving.

    We talked a lot about the church, God, spirituality, sex, and shame. He had worked through shame in his own life, so he knew just how I felt. (I will go through his old emails and stuff when I get a chance to see if there’s anything there that might help you.)

    A large part of it was dealing with shame in GENERAL — not just in relation to sex. He asked me to read a book by Francis Lucille (can’t recall the title), and The Presence Process by Michael Brown. Brown’s book was extremely helpful in healing shame and guilt for me. TN man helped me with processing what I was reading and experiencing.

    I wish I could just come up with a checklist of what I did to get past sexual shame and guilt, but it was more of an organic, individualized process.

    He later sent me audios of Eckhart Tolle’s “Stillness Speaks,” and that was helpful for just accepting myself and everyone else just the way we all are (another antidote to shame and guilt).

    A large part of it has to do with truly loving yourself. And recognizing that love is what it’s ALL about — all of life is about love. LOVE, not rules.

    Like Brenda said, there are Biblical rules about sex that are meant to protect us. I have come to believe and understand that the rules are like caution signs. Not absolute can’ts, shouldn’ts, mustn’ts, but more like be careful, be sensible, and always be loving toward yourself and others.

    I felt interested watching Siena process her decision about whether to take a lover. I described part of my own experience with that earlier, but one thing I want to add: At this time, I will probably not have sex with a man again until I am in a committed, loving relationship. It’s just where I am in my journey now. Nothing to do with shame or guilt or rules. It may actually have a lot to do with the fact that I wouldn’t want my kids to know, and I don’t feel like having a secret life.

    However, if I do get a chance to meet TN man in person and the chemistry is there for both of us, I WILL sleep with him! Lol. I will make an exception with him, even without a commitment, because if our pheromones, etc. match up, well, I already know that his body is visually extremely appealing and his face looks ultra-kissable (yes, I know, unless he has bad breath or something!) And, a man I know who knows him told me that most women find him very attractive in person. And, he taught me so much and helped me so much, so I think I would like to be with him that way. But who knows what will happen.

    Shannon, if you have specific questions I would be happy to try to answer them.


  332.  #332Lucy on April 29, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Laura — I understand how you feel. Lisa Scott has a lot of info that will help you understand his “choice of replacement.” Basically, it is the thrill of “danger” with her. Like watching a horror movie, ya know? Some people love the rush.

    I think it’s Lisa E. Scott. She is on facebook too. I don’t really like most of her writing and the attitudes on her fb page, because they all seem stuck, bitter, angry, etc. Like she hasn’t really healed at all. And they talk about the NPD person as being sub-human, which is a disturbing judgment to me. BUT, because you are still trying to make sense of a new situation, their emotions may be helpful and consistent with what you are feeling — especially the confusion. The discussion on her fb page may help you feel less alone with it.



  333.  #333Turtle Girl on April 30, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Sadly, I don’t think that people with NPD are fixable. They are so broken and the risk (Psychological)it would take to see how they are is just too great. I wish this were not so.

    Narcissists are really hard to love, it is a one way street-all their needs come first every time. It feels horrible to be on the receiving end of a person like that. Your needs will never be met, except with crumbs and rarely that. It is just how they are.
    Run like hell.

  334.  #334Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Lucy, this could be the case with Ryan. I believe it’s caused by demons. Therefore, I believe the cure is deliverance.

  335.  #335Justin on April 30, 2010 at 11:35 am

    The book “Help! I’m in Love with a Narcissist” was an incredible find for me. How to recognize one, how to recognize those aspects in yourself, how to (yes) run like hell, and some tools if you decide to stay.

  336.  #336Justin on April 30, 2010 at 11:37 am

    To add… the book brings up the point I really took to heart: only a narcissist would think they could “cure” a narcissist!

  337.  #337Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Justin — There is a significant difference between narcissism and NPD.

    I don’t believe that one person can cure another person with NPD; however, that is not the same as saying they are incurable.

    My homeopathic MD has a sign in his office: “I treated him; God cured him.”

    (Addressing anything, not specifically NPD)

    We all have narcissistic traits to some degree.

    Brenda — if you believe it’s demonic then that should be fairly easy to fix if Ryan is willing.

  338.  #338Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Lucy, that’s the issue. He wants to be free, but he is clinging to beliefs that are giving them legal right to stay. He is blinded. But he, too, is in process.

    I really like that quote about “I treated him; God cured him.” I have given Ryan every tool, resource, and person I know that can help him. Now all I can do is pray. The rest is between Ryan and God. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

    I am staying on my bridge this time. Thank God, you ladies are the strength and inspiration I needed to do so. I feel clearer. I feel steadier. I feel wiser. I feel more sure. I feel like I know more where I stand…on my bridge, of course! I feel, and that feels good!

  339.  #339Siena on April 30, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Oh gosh, I’m gonna chime in and cause some flack here. But… here I go!! This is a trigger for me!

    So, ladies – you may or may not know that I have a degree from a very good Christian theological school. As such, I spent a LOT of time studying demonology and deliverance and ALL that stuff. And I’ve seen some really crazy things!

    I spent so much time focusing on demons and deliverance that I got COMPLETELY PULLED OFF MY PATH! I worried so long about how a certain man was handling his life and what HIS issues were that I COMPLETELY missed my own and stunted my emotional growth!

    If you believe in demons, please believe me – focusing on another person’s issues is demonic!

    If you don’t believe in demons (I’m moving away from this belief personally) – then focusing on another person’s issues is self-harming!

    Either way, I just don’t feel it’s healthy! It would feel so good to only hear about fixing our own issues here! Thinking about, analyzing… even TALKING about a man’s issues pulls me off my path!

    What feels good to me is to understand how what he is doing (or not doing) to me in the moment feels like, and then to learn to release those feelings in a healthy way, and then to move toward things that FEEL good.

    Everything else feels stuck! And God doesn’t want us stuck! A God of abundance is constantly creating, moving, growing, expanding!! He wants us to do that too! Anything less than that is being less than godlike and less than we can be.

    I realize saying this might bug some people and put me under the microscope… but how would it feel to switch the convo from analyzing what is going on with the men to how we feel in the moment?

    love you all! Siena

  340.  #340Justin on April 30, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Siena, many hugs to you for saying what I was afraid to. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and feel very comforted knowing I’m not alone on this issue.

  341.  #341Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Right, Siena. I have a similar degree and experience as far as the demon stuff goes. I found that whenever I was with a group of people who believed in that, then “evidence” of it manifested (evidence in quotes because there are certainly other explanations besides demons). The reason I said what I said about it to Brenda was because if she and he believe that that is the source of his problem, then there is NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT — just do what you think you need to do.

    I don’t feel at all triggered by you sharing your thoughts about this.

    But I would feel curious if I were you about why you felt triggered. I would want to explore my deeper feelings around it that led to feeling triggered.

    As far as the other stuff — NPD, etc. — my focus here would not be on fixing the man and analyzing his issues, but rather on understanding whether or not he is what Rori would call a toxic man — and, therefore, whether or not I would want to even be open to a relationship with him.

    The same goes for disabilities and differences. Last night I read “22 Things a Woman Should Know if She Loves a Man With Aspergers” because I want to know what I would be getting myself into if my relationship continues. That’s not “stuck” — it is being wise, imo. Just like if you were involved with a man who traveled a lot, you might want to explore how that would impact your relationship. Or if he had Tourette’s syndrome, or whatever.

    Reading that book really helped me focus on my own needs, wants, and feelings and to seriously consider whether they could be met by a man with asperger’s.

    I’m all for focusing on how we feel in the moment with a man. However, if a man has any kind of significant disability/difference, then our in-the-moment feelings will not give us the whole picture.

    My ex-h made me feel absolutely wonderful before we were married. If I had known then that he has NPD, I would have taken that into consideration when deciding whether to say yes to his proposal.


  342.  #342Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Lucy I totally hear you! And I totally get wanting to understand what something looks like in order to be able to read the signs. That feels good and healthy to me!

    I might be triggered by many things Christian nowadays. (hehe) I’m being gentle with myself, though, and letting myself express those feelings when they come up. I was just SO STUCK for a long time that it really messed me up. So when I see situations that look like my old situations, they trigger me.

    I mean no harm, and I’m certainly not an expert. But I feel good being able to voice my feelings in a place where no matter what I say (good, bad or indifferent), I will find support and gentle nudging when needed.

  343.  #343Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Justin, I read a book recently that had a wonderful message. That is, we are all eachother’s messengers. I used to (still don’t) speak up as often as I probably should, because I don’t want to hurt or offend other people. But this book said that if I feel compelled to speak up, I should, because it means that I might have a message for someone. My post was me feeling compelled to speak up.

    If nothing else, I felt triggered and didn’t stuff it down. That feels vunderful!

  344.  #344Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Siena — I feel great about your response to me and what you wrote to Justin!

    I, too, sometimes hesitate to say things on here, because I don’t like the way it feels when people are mad at me! I relate to what you said, Justin — I feel glad when someone else writes what I didn’t have the guts to write. Heehee. Siena was brave! I will be more brave!

    What book did you read about messengers, Siena? Michael Brown’s The Presence Process talks a lot about that concept, too, and going through his process has healed almost all my triggers. Hardly anything triggers me any more.

    But when it does, I know how to get the message. 🙂

  345.  #345Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Oh, Lucy, I wanted to respond to this also, “However, if a man has any kind of significant disability/difference, then our in-the-moment feelings will not give us the whole picture.”

    I’m not sure I believe that. (Mischievous goddess to steal Daria’s title).

    What if I could became so in touch with my own feelings and learned to trust my own intuition SO MUCH that when something like NPD in a man presented itself, I would KNOW something was amiss because of my intuition, without having to know WHAT it was? And then take action to remove myself from the situation?

    That’s what I’m shooting for. I’m not a psychologist, and there’s NO WAY I could date all the ‘personality disorders’ out there. But I can learn to feel my feelings and trust my intuition, and trust myself to keep me safe no matter who I encounter…

  346.  #346Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Lucy, the book is The Celestine Prophesy

  347.  #347Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I think that’s why I didn’t have a problem with the stuff Ingrid was writing that bothered some people.

    I realize that if something feels bad to me, it is up to me to take care of it by feeling my own feelings around it, getting the message, and healing the trigger.

    Otherwise, the same types of things will keep happening to us until we “feel it to heal it.”

    By the way….. Ingrid, where are you??? Are you okay? <3

  348.  #348Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Hi Siena, I don’t mind at all. In fact, I am interested to know more of your experiences/knowledge, if you care to share.

    I think you make a very good point about being fixed on MY purpose, MY growth, MY healing, and that is clearly one of my areas where I am in process. Like my 12th grade teacher said, “What are you, the house den mother??” I like to “help”, and so I’m usually too quick to jump in the middle of someone else’s stuff. On the other hand, I agree with you also about being messengers. I believe we learn from each other. I am thoroughly digesting all that I’m learning from you wonderful ladies! I know not everything I’m saying on this blog is what everyone wants to hear, but I, also, am at a place where I believe I not only have a right to believe, think, and feel the way I want to, but I have a right to express what I believe, think, and feel.

    I am totally open when it comes to controversial subjects, since I also believe each person has the same rights. I don’t feel threatened by differing views: I feel challenged and intrigued.

    Siena, I’m all kinds of curious what school you went to and why you were turned off.

    I am rapidly moving towards focusing on fixing me and no one else. I will say I had deep, deep confusion after Ryan cut my heart out right when I was totally giving myself to him and ready to say yes to what appeared his imminent proposal. I NEEDED to process the dynamics of what happened, because I was in a serious downward spiral last fall, as well as suicidal for two days following his fake proposal. It is THE most traumatic thing I’ve ever gone thru.

    Call it debriefing. Call it what you will. Focusing on what the hell is wrong with him, and I DO mean HELL, has helped me to figure out what is what. It is so utterly painful and demoralizing to go from trusting and loving someone with your whole being to distrusting them and abruptly realizing they DON’T love YOU.

    I am still picking thru the shrapnel of this horrible incident.

  349.  #349Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Right, Siena. I differentiate between feelings and intuition. Thus, I believe that our FEELINGS will not give us the whole picture, but our INTUITION certainly can!

    And, in fact, my intuition had tipped me off right before my wedding, but I let people talk me out of what my gut was telling me!

    My point is that if you know someone has a certain condition, yes, listen to your intuition, feel your feelings, but a little understanding of the condition can help too.

    I must have been reported by someone, cuz I’m now awaiting moderation! That feels bad. What did I do wrong? 🙁

  350.  #350Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm


    “Siena, I’m all kinds of curious what school you went to and why you were turned off.”

    A small little university in the midwest that specializes in theology. 🙂

    The ‘turn off’ has been gradual (I graduate from university in 95).

    The reason why? I was taught to “do good and avoid sin”. Unfortunately, to an unmarried woman in the big city, “sin” is really difficult to avoid – especially when there’s nothing to replace it with. What ended up happening to me was that every time I “sinned”, I hated myself a little more. Until I got to the point where I was only focusing on “avoiding sin”. And not living my life at all.

    I shut down my emotions (because jealousy, anger, and rage are sinful).

    I shut down my body (because extra marital sex is sinful).

    I shut down focusing on ME (because ‘do unto others’)

    Basically, I got really fucked up. And woke up one day only a shell of my real self.

    I don’t blame Christianity. My filter was just off. I love Christians and Christianity. But the way I interpreted it really really messed with my head.

    So I am picking my way back up and figuring it out for myself. Rather than not doing something because someone (the church) told me not to, I’m learning to not do things that harm me or others.

    That probably sounds really “duh” to others, but it was a real mental shift for me.

  351.  #351Siena on April 30, 2010 at 1:42 pm


    “And, in fact, my intuition had tipped me off right before my wedding, but I let people talk me out of what my gut was telling me!”

    I often wonder if young women getting married have a fighting chance at all… for that specific reason!

  352.  #352Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Siena, thanks for sharing. I totally feel what you’re saying. When people say to me, “Oh, you’re religious, huh?”
    I say, “No, I’m not. I think religion is a list of do’s and don’ts. I’m not into that. I am in love with Jesus, and I believe Christianity is about relationships, not rules.”
    I hope I effectively expressed the whole picture of what I was trying to express in the other string on the dream of love. I sinned in the midst of my Christianity, and it felt good! Until the consequences caught up with me!

    One of my favorite books is, “The Rest of the Gospel: When the Partial Gospel Has Worn You Out”, by Dan Stone. We CAN’T live the way the Bible teaches us to on human strength. It is thru the power of God, living in us and thru us. And He doesn’t FORCE us to do this or that; He makes us WILLING to do this or that.

    I picture my relationship with Jesus just like a romance, where I am totally in love and devoted to Him. I do what’s right because I desire to please Him, from the heart.

    Do I still swear and sometimes do wrong? Yes. But He, also, knows I’m in process, and He’s far more compassionate, forgiving, and affirming than even you wonderful women of Siren Island!

  353.  #353Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Lucy, now my last comment is under moderation. I know we’re into some controversial stuff, but I don’t mean anyone any harm. I don’t agree with everything everyone else says, either. I respect them for their beliefs, thoughts, and feelings, tho. 🙂

  354.  #354Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Siena, I went to a small university in the midwest that specializes in theology, too. 🙂

  355.  #355Simply Shannon on April 30, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Brenda: Your posts feels very open to me. I feel completely intrigued as you process through things. It’s happening right in front of me. Fascinating! I want to encourage you to keep going. And to gently nudge you, are you circular dating? I’d love to hear about the real world experiences you’re having.

    Lucy and Sienna: I love the dialogue and am learning a lot just reading. I was also married to a man with narcissistic tendencies (so sayeth his therapist – so I’m not just making it up – lol). There would be signals that just didn’t feel good but I had no idea and just thought he would change over time (like a normal human being). Sadly those things DID change… for the worse. I can see both viewpoints. It would have been helpful to understand some of the signals (the don’t wants) and to really follow my feelings, especially when those feelings were bad (instead of brushing them off).

    Blessings and love, Shannon

  356.  #356Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Siena — It’s not “duh” to me; I had the same experience.

  357.  #357Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Yeah, my comment #347 says it’s awaiting moderation. Does that mean that it skips over that number for all of you?

  358.  #358Justin on April 30, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “And, in fact, my intuition had tipped me off right before my wedding, but I let people talk me out of what my gut was telling me!”

    Heh. I told my intuition to sit down and be quiet!

  359.  #359Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Hi Shannon, thank you for your encouragement!

    I am juggling (not dating per se) three men: Ryan, Kenny, and Bill. I just joined a dating website a day or two ago and haven’t taken the time to work it yet. I have been more intrigued with this blog! So that means I’m on my bridge, at least! LOL! But I intend to get more CDing going from that site.

    Real world experiences: Yesterday I had a hilarious IM going with Bill at work!

    He started out conferencing another woman into our job’s IM to ask her who to invite to a meeting about a document revision. She wasn’t at her computer, so we just started discussing it. I’m at a pharma company and the document had to do with rats. I said I think we should invite some rats to the meeting. It would make it more interesting to have rats running around the floor biting everyone’s ankles during the meeting!
    He said he prefers mink.
    I said, “I feel where this is going!” (He previously shared he grew up hunting and trapping for fur and has no qualms about killing animals).
    I knew he was just being mischievous and trying to get me angry, so I made a joke of it.
    “I prefer ferrets. They’re cute and furry and stinky!”
    He said, “Mmm, I like ferrets, too. They make a nice side with scrambled eggs!”
    Then he added, “Your dogs would eat ferrets!”
    I said, “Yes, they would. They would also like Lucky steak.” (Lucky is his border collie, and mine are two dog-aggressive German Shepherds).
    He said, “They’re cannibals!”
    Then in large letters, “CANNIBALS!!”
    I wrote it again in even bigger letters. Then “You’re funny!”
    I used to be a breeder, and he recently asked me for breeding advice when he tried to mate his border collie with another.
    I said, “Lucky’s a pansy! He doesn’t know what to do with a bitch in heat!”
    Then, “Let me bring my two bitches over. They’d show him what to do with a bitch!”
    He said, “I’m going to the snack machine. I need some sugar.”
    I said, “There’s some rum cake over here.”
    He said, “You’re forgetting Diane conferenced in to this IM!”
    I said, “Oh, no! (then three blushing smiley faces)
    Then, “Diane, FYI, I used to be a breeder, and recently Bill was trying to breed his dog, Lucky.”
    Bill wrote, “Brenda <<====covering her tracks!"
    I wrote, "As usual!"
    Then, "The rum cake even has a cherry on top. But don't give it to Lucky! He'd have no idea what to do with the cherry! (**Scandalous giggles!**)"
    I was laughing out loud for real and I really enjoyed it! Today he told me he enjoys joking around with me, and it breaks up the dullness of his day!

  360.  #360Brenda on April 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Lucy, on my computer, #347 is my comment, so probably.

  361.  #361Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Siena – thank you that feels like a relief to read.

  362.  #362Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    I feel furious and angry about this talk of analyzing men and i’ve brought it up before.

    Labeling men as whatever and getting all in their issues is the opposite of LEANING BACK.

    That is simple HIS BUSINESS accordign to Rori.

    I feel annoyed when I read on the blog about people doing stuff that is counter to what Rori’s tools say.



  363.  #363Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:26 pm



  364.  #364Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    I feel sad and frustrated about your anger, Daria. 🙁

  365.  #365Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    i feel furious reading that feelings and intuition are different.

    OMG. I feel overwhelmed.

    INTUITION totally affects our FEELINGS.

    i feel so frustrated and judgemental reading lucy’s posts.

    It feels like someone smiling politely while refusing me, i feel furious it feels like being unheard, it feels like slipping off tryng to get thru a glass sphere


    i feel like shaking her till the thoughts shake out her head and fly up to the universe and she lets go and finally accepts healing and stops hanging on to thoughts that are not really good for her

    omg i feel so furious.

    i feel totally powerless

    i feel so mad thinking that freaking new sirens mite be slowed down by anti Rori tools


    i feel so freakin intense

    i feel sooo intense

    i love my intense feelings


    i love my fury

  366.  #366Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    I don’t like to label men derogatory, arbitrary labels like “jerk,” “loser,” etc. That, to me, is “labeling.”

    However, if a man has diabetes or tourette’s or bipolar, there is a reality of living with that as a partner that it is good to be aware of.

  367.  #367Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Daria, of course intuition affects our feelings — yes, they are related and work synergistically — that doesn’t mean they are the same thing.

    I feel perplexed and rapid heartbeat.

  368.  #368Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Brenda – I feel excited to hear about real live in person dates going!!!

  369.  #369Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    “i feel like shaking her till the thoughts shake out her head and fly up to the universe and she lets go and finally accepts healing and stops hanging on to thoughts that are not really good for her”

    That feels way more like a label and incredibly more “anti-rori tools” than anything I wrote!

    I feel horrible hearing such judgments about me!

  370.  #370Daria on April 30, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I feel hot head furious.

    i will channel to my energy routine

  371.  #371Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    I feel annoyed and amused and angry that Daria THINKS that I am hanging onto thoughts that are not good for me and that I need to finally let go and accept healing!

    Daria, these thoughts ARE GOOD FOR ME! Absolutely! I feel sad that you don’t see that and feel the need to judge me.

    As far as my healing, none of us will ever be completely healed of everything, but I am healed of a tremendous amount of stuff.

    I feel like leaning back and watching Daria heal her own issues instead of judging me.

  372.  #372Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    I feel curious why I am triggered right now by Daria’s statements. It feels SO interesting because I just wrote a little while ago that hardly anything triggers me any more! I feel amused by that! I must have been asking to be triggered so I could heal more stuff.

    Thank you Daria, for triggering me so I can feel it to heal it.

  373.  #373Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    I DON’T WANT to feel judged by people who don’t even know me and who think they understand more than I do about me and what I’m doing/thinking/feeling.

    I feel good with people who don’t judge me.

  374.  #374Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Hmmm, yes. There it is. This is touching on a little remnant of SHAME hiding in the corner of my psyche.

    I see you there, shame.

    I healed most of my shame, but there it is. A little bit left. Thank you, Daria, for being the messenger that exposed that shame.

    Being the scapegoat as a child. The blacksheep of the family. The weird one who followed her inner guidance, her intuition, her inner knowing, and therefore was different, misunderstood, and suspect.

    Shamed and judged by my older sister almost constantly. She wanted to shake me, too, and she wanted me to do what SHE thought I should do, instead of doing what I knew was good for me.

    “Why do you talk to mom about personal stuff, Lucy? Don’t do that!”

    “Don’t go out at midnight in your nightgown and bare feet to look at the stars, Lucy, — that’s just weird!”

    “Listen to me, Lucy. You are stupid and dumb and messed up.”

    One time she came after me with a hot red face, pointing a sharp knife at me, because I ate a cookie from the cookie sheet because I didn’t know she had made them for the French club bake sale.

    Her anger and fury scared me.

    And she blamed me for her anger. Said it was my fault.

    It wasn’t my fault.

    I am not what my sister said about me.

    I am not what Daria said about me.

    I feel sad and head-achey. My face is pulled down. My heart hurts.

  375.  #375Daria on April 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm


    I feel fascinated and intrigued!

    I feel better too and I would like to heal all that is around this for me as well

    all the feeling like i have the answers and not feeling heard.

    all the feeling helpless with my mom

    all the feeling brushed aside and fake smiled in my face and feeling humiliated and shocked

    i love all my feelings

    thank you!

  376.  #376Justin on April 30, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Daria & Lucy, that was really beautiful! I feel amazed by the swift and compassionate and constructive conflict resolution I’ve witnessed during the 2 weeks I’ve been frequenting this site. None of it feels fake or contrived. All of you ladies continue to inspire me.

    Daria, when I first started reading this blog, I was triggered by many of your posts. I felt offended and put-off, though I couldn’t put my finger on why, because I respected and identified with so much of what you express. Just now I realized what it is, and it’s yours and Lucy’s posts that sent the message.

    Since I was a little girl, all I’ve ever wanted to be (besides a wife and mother) is a writer. A storyteller. Putting words together so that someone, somewhere, gets something from them and they can carry that with them forever. This part of me is so buried now, my attempts at professional writing were half-assed and embarrassing, and I stopped a few years ago because I couldn’t shake the thought of “Why would anyone give a shit about what I have to say?” And the feeling of worthlessness and invisibility that came with those thoughts were devastating.

    And your words, Daria, that you sing and share and spew and (sometimes spit!) so freely… I felt jealous. I thought, Who is SHE to think anyone cares what she has to say? (I’m feeling guilt right now, and feeling protective of your feelings writing that.) And then slowly, I started to feel grateful for your words, all of them, even the ones I read and feel a bristle on my neck, because your words feel like fingers clutching the cork. I want to let my feelings and words pour forth, feeling confident and having faith that what I say and feel matters. Someone will listen and feel something. Someone will get something from it. Someone will hear the message, and heal, and I will heal.

    I feel light.

  377.  #377Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    “the feeling like i have the answers and not feeling heard”

    I felt like that for a really long time in my life. Finally I healed that part of me that needed to feel that way and I came to understand that I have the answers for MYSELF only, and other people have the answers for THEMSELVES. <3

  378.  #378Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    “fake smiled in my face”

    If I felt that way when it was not actually happening in reality, I would feel curious about what inside me was making me feel that way.

  379.  #379Daria on April 30, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Justin – thank you! I have those thoughts too!

    why would anyone care about my feelings?

    why would anyone care whta i have to say?

    as i love myself more these thoughts have become so much less powerful

    i think it may be because IIIII care !

    and i respect myself more.

    What I did right now with my anger is something i read in a recent Rori e-letter.

    I felt it and i DID something PHYSICAL!

    namely 5 minute donna eden and then PBS from t-tapp (very phisical)

    then i ate

    then i felt good.

    Lucy – I feel open to your processing.

    I did not say you ARE anything.

    I feel glad to have triggered you. The i’m triggerless stuff feels weird and like a stance to me, like the glass half sphere (like a biodome) i was describing.

    I stand by what I said. I did feel like shaking out the thniking that isn’t good for you.

    I would want to shake it out of me also,

    I’m not feeling angry now,

    gently pushing or even pulling or lubing and gliding it out ona slip would feel good

    eww i feel triggerd by the word “Lube”

    i love my trigger…

    thank you

    i feel sigh

  380.  #380Daria on April 30, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    I still feel triggered often by the part of me that wants to cure people, that want’s to give them the answers.

    so many healers have said. you cannot MAKE someone better.

    I feel so resistant and confused. I get it and i dont get it.

    I CAN MAKE you bleed. by cutting you. I can make you stop bleeing by stitching you together

    WAT DO YOU MEAN we cant make people better



    and I want everyone to say wow. Shes awesome

    yes i do

    ah I am a beautiful Narcissus.

    i love me

    i love my self absorbed

    I would like to heal this, I woudl like to feel this, I would like to get this

    thank u

    ack fear. I na way that feels good. pplease dont kill my cat or something.



    i love my cat


    I intend to be and feel safe

  381.  #381Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Daria — “I did not say you ARE anything”

    I was referring to what you said about me here:

    “and she lets go and finally accepts healing and stops hanging on to thoughts that are not really good for her”

    So you said I am hanging on … and not accepting healing.

    And I am not that, what you said here. Just like I am not what my sister said about me.

    I have no problem with people expressing their FEELINGS about me. I just don’t want to be judged.

  382.  #382Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    . “The i’m triggerless stuff feels weird and like a stance to me”

    I did not say I am triggerless.

    I said that hardly anything triggers me any more, and that is simply a factual observation of my own life.

    I used to get triggered all the time, big time, and didn’t know what to do with it. When I learned last fall how to see the messenger, get the message, and feel it to heal it, I began healing trigger after trigger. I purposely put myself in situations to uncover my triggers so that I could heal them. I spent many sleepless nights healing triggers. I became very aware and conscious of my feelings at all times so that I could heal my triggers. It was a very intense, accelerated process.

    Sure, we just demonstrated the fact that I am not triggerless. I never said I was. But the truth remains: I rarely get triggered any more because I have healed so much.

  383.  #383Daria on April 30, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    hmm. ok gotcha

    yes, I those were thoughts that you were not accepting healing and holding on to thoughts and thinking

    thinking that i feel

    i feel: sad. powerless. frustrated. judgemental. helpless. unsafe. shut out. distrustful. confused.

    i love my feelings

  384.  #384Lucy on April 30, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Thank you, Daria. I feel heard. 🙂 (not a fake smile!)

  385.  #385Apple Jacks on April 30, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Wait a minute, so when a comment says awaiting in moderation that means you were reported? That happened to me once on one post but when I post on another post at the same time, it went and was not awaiting in moderation. My “huh?” is being triggered.

  386.  #386Daria on April 30, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    It coudl be because of embedding more than one link, or maybe it’s set up to monitor certain words

  387.  #387Apple Jacks on April 30, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Okay, worked on this for two days but here goes my problem solving list…

    I worry about doing this list

    I worry it will transport me back to the days when I was just a shell of myself. A blaming, puddle of wounded sadness, victim.

    Terrified of picking up the pen and paper

    I worry about my friend who has rectal cancer

    I worry her tests next week will not show that she will be in remission, even though the prognosis looks good.

    I worry that to deal with that on top of it she has to deal with her little boy who might have asperger’s syndrome/autism.

    I feel bad that she and her husband have to think every little detail out before taking the little one out even to eat at a resturant.

    I feel bad that she is not connecting with her husband as much as she’d like.

    I worry that she has to be on the go go go all the time and that interferes with her taking care of herself.

    I worry about the money problems that she has and that prevents her from taking care of herself properly with her illness.

    I wished I could be there to shop, cook and feed her the best of nutritious foods so that she can have an edge on fighting this illness.

    I feel sad when she says her hair is not growing back as soft as it used to due to all the radiation therapy.

    I worry about my friend who is having trouble at work and dealing with jealousy and racism.

    I worry at the ingrained and destructive forces of racism at work in this country.

    I fear the lack of critical thinking skills people have anymore.

    I feel frustration that critical thinking skills are not taught in schools anymore.

    I feel worry and annoyance at how little people are able to differentiate between critical thinking, and spouting uninformed personal opinions.

    I fear the day I can never hug my mom or kiss her adorable face when she leaves to join daddy

    I worry about her disconnect and severe depression after daddy’s sudden death.

    I think about their last moments when he was on the stretcher with the oxygen mask and looked at her so gently with worry and want to crumble into the ground . They were supposed to be watching a movie.

    I dread the day when my kitty will leave me to go with God. 🙁 My little sugar ball, how can I ever be without you?

    I worry about him being inside all day long in the apartment.

    I feel so bad at how awful he must feel when he has to cough up those dry and painful hairballs.

    I worry about not taking the best care of him

    I worry about the cute little gray and white cat who ran for shelter under the cars when it rained three nights ago.

    I worry about all the animal cruelty and injustice taking place right now.

    I wished I could be all of their voice and roar the loudest most thunderous, earth shaking roar this planet can carry on their behalf.

    I worry I’ll never be able to put out legislation to rodeos, or at least calf roping, where baby calfs are made to run at 300 mph calling for their mothers then pulled by their necks and tied.

    I worry about all those pets with owners who are neglectful

    I worry about the dog whose owner I read on the humane society board of facebook that he peed on her sheets and he can go back to the fucking humane society right now and wanting to kick her ass.

    I feel worried at all the women who sacrificed and spent themselves on their children only to be abandoned, cold and hungry in old age.

    I want to kiss the faces of the elderly who have been beatened and abused at the hands of those they once held when they were born.

    I want to hug and kiss all the sick, tortured and abandoned beings in this world and tell them it’s going to be okay, but I don’t know how to do this!

    I feel terrified at the BP oil spill and at how many sea animals will have to suffer through all of that sludge.

    I fear the effects that has on our health and well-being

    I feel worried at the Arizona law that passed to okay racial profiling as a “remedy” for illegal immigration.

    I fear I will not be able to take the art classes I want to this summer.

    I fear I’ll never be able to make my voice heard.

    I fear being irrelevant

    I fear my art will stink

    I fear I will never be able to get all the pictures in my head down in a painting

    I fear I’ll never get this and be the artist that I want to be

    I fear I’ll never strike that balance between showing the beauty, and serenity of life which sells and social awareness where harsh reality is important to be depicted.

    I fear I’ll never be able to pick up the pen and paper and again and pursue my dream of becoming a writer.

    I feel frusterated that I was not able to break the youngest pulitzer prize winner record.

    I fear I am not living up to my potential and taking up space

    I feel guilty about only thinking of my artistic/career success. That is a selfish want and spiritually I am taught to go against that.

    The world needs me to act, and I don’t know which way is up and down yet. I worry I’ll never be able to navigate my way through.

    I feel guilty for saying hte words, “the world needs me.” As if I am so special and God like that I can “fix” all these problems. I feel that is arrogant of me and I should not be arrogant.

    I feel worried for those people who feel that they can never find love for reasons such as weight, height, baldness and other circumstances beyond their control and therefore, stay alone.

    I fear that by delving into my sensual/sexual journey I’ll be inviting evil spirits to be toyed with me or my family somehow.
    I fear that I have so many more fears and worries that I cannot think of right now, and it will pop up later and make me feel guilty for not remembering.

    I fear there’s way too mnay cobwebs in my head right now and that I have many typos, spelling errors and the like in htis post and those reading it will not be able to understand it because I typed it stupidly.

  388.  #388Brenda on May 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Justin, RE: #376 – Awesome! Beautifully described! I can relate, highly, cuz three of my major passions, also, are to be a wife, mother, and a writer!

    I am so happy for you that you had that realization! You go, girl! Let those feelings flow! Use this Siren Island as a sounding board, if that helps!

    I’ve struggled with the same, too, in speaking, since in most of my early life, I was either interrupted, ignored, yelled at, or criticized. Many times when I speak, even now, the recording in my head tries to control me, “No one is interested in hearing a word you have to say!” I fight it, and I speak anyway, and when I DO feel interrupted, ignored, criticized, or yelled at, which still happens sometimes, I have learned to, or at least try to remember to speak my feelings: “I feel unheard.” or “I don’t like to be interrupted”, etc.

    When it comes to writing, I feel far more fluent, because I have done a lot more writing than scary face-to-face speaking, and I’ve felt a lot more affirmed at every turn. I want to be an author. I hope you pursue your writing dream, Justin! More power to ya!

  389.  #389Brenda on May 2, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Apple Jacks,

    Hello, thank you for sharing! I feel many of the same concerns, and my heart mourns especially for innocent, defenseless animals. I do my best to say, “It never helps to worry; it always helps to pray.” And I pray the serenity prayer, “God, please give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

    I have two naughty German Shepherds, for example. I was homeless for 7 months in 2007, mostly due to a false friend who first got me fired (without me knowing she was the reason), then sabotaged my jobhunt, sending nasty emails to the companies where I applied.

    A kind lady on the board of directors of the free medical clinic paid for my dogs to stay at a kennel for 2 months while I got on my feet, so I wouldn’t have to camp in the woods in order to keep them. My dogs were returned to me, thanks to her, but they came back dog-aggressive after being too long in the kennel.

    So now they have caused me much trouble, and most people would have sent them away for that. And most people would have sent them away to begin with just cuz they were homeless.

    So the way I choose to look at it is I am doing what I can for the homeless animals by keeping my own dogs. They could very well be another murder statistic at the animals shelter, because who wants to adopt a dog-aggressive dog?? I wish I could put my arms around all the homeless, abused, and neglected animals of the world. Sadly, I can’t. But I can put my arms around my two girlies, and I can give them the happiest life I can possibly give them! And I can get two doggies, two kitties, and two parakeets, so they aren’t lonely, because most animals like to be with another one of their own species.

    Animals are very nurturing and healing in and of themselves! My doggies keep it dirty, stinky, and hairy, but they get to sleep on momma’s king size bed! And they go for lots of car rides! I just wash my blankets a lot more frequently than usual.

    I feel the pain and grief of those world situations you brought up. I choose to emanate love into the world, and bring healing where I can. I love you ladies!

  390.  #390Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Brenda – thank you so much for your post #389. My next step is to figure out a theme. I’m feeling really annoyed because I cannot seem to articulate a theme. I wanna be a superhero? I don’t know. The process for this list is really triggering and annoying me for some reason. But it’s cleansing at the same time. But the cycle is I cleanse, I trigger. Cleanse, trigger and on it goes. I have not read the last few chapters of Rori’s book in the last three days because I feel like this list is front and center and won’t leave me alone till I finish the entire process before doing anything else and that could be the reason for the triggers.

  391.  #391Daria on May 2, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Apple Jacks I couldn’t find my theme either, but maybe your theme is like mine – Rori said it was – I’m powerless… thats teh feeling I got from yours that it was a lot like mine.

  392.  #392dawn on May 2, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Hi Ladies , Whats a theme? My theme is Goddess. LOL !

  393.  #393dawn on May 2, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    i refuse to look back and I suggest strongly you all get your goddess boots on and march with me. Whats done is done. Onward and upward my friends. Our minds want us to keep analising this shit intil we decide we arent worth it. Our hearts are screeming that we are worht it but that little voice is always there to feed our doubt. Dont listen any more ! Im gonna keep this rant on and if it helps one of my sisters than im happy !

  394.  #394Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Daria – I feel really warm and appreciative of your input. I’m in my head right now. What if that’s not what my list means? What if my list means that I’m narcissistic? What if it means I’m self-important and have a God complex? I’m so overwhelmed I want to cry but the tears do not want to spill.

    My sis-in-law and I were looking for jobs for me today and working on my resume. There are so many great jobs I want to do that I’m not really all that qualified for…but there’s a conflict taking place in my insides. I want to spend my life creating, writing, coloring, depicting, healing, nurturing, empowering and enlightening. I want to work with animals and the elderly.

    I come across this organization called KIPP schools. I forget what it stands for but it’s an organization that has a collaboration of teachers that serve in underserved schools. The children may be two grades behind, school hours ate from 7:25 till 5 pm, some select half day saturdays and three weeks in the summer and teachers are to be available via cell phone in the evenings to help with homework and as a result the teachers with KIPP tend to have a 15 – 20 percent higher salary then regular teachers. The focus is to get these kids to pass the standardized tests to get into college and a good percentage of the kids in this program gets to college. KIPP is all over, and there are openings in LA and the Bay Area.

    I don’t know why, as challenging and grueling as this looks, my heart is telling me that if it works out I’m up for the challenge. HUH? What if I get it? What if it works out? How do I find in all of the other things I feel I should do? Why am I feeling so much turmoil???

    God Damn BP oil spillage!

  395.  #395Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Dawn – you’re right. My mind is in analyzing shit mode.

  396.  #396Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Correction, KIPP schools are not “all over” the country as I stated, but in 19 states.

  397.  #397heartbeat on May 2, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Apple Jacks – I just nipped on, on my way to bed, as I feel inspired to encourage you (& Daria). I’ve never stepped on a heartfelt path without it going somewhere – never. Serendipity always surprises with opportunities following the smallest action (step) on my part. Fifteen years ago I had my own business in the arts, but I was passionately interested in psychology and healing. I couldn’t see how to get from my feelings of being overworked, financially drained and trapped to where I’d feel inspired and satisfied. Well it’s a long story, but now I work in that field and use all my former skills as well, and earn ten times as much. So focus on your heart and make a little gesture to the Universe and she will bless you abundantly! There may be a few corners but the road is there for you to walk if you choose.

  398.  #398heartbeat on May 2, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Speaking of corners, I wrote recently that I sensed a change, a longing to return to designing and making art. So I got laid off one of my contracts last week (thank you Universe – and I will miss that job, really!). I feel a bit scared financially, but now I have time to develop some new prints to sell and a website. See what I mean? 🙂

  399.  #399Daria on May 2, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Heartbeat –

    what is a print? is taht a painting? how do you sell them?

    can i sell mine?

    Dawn – are you referring to our lists?

    we are doing the stop solvign problems first list from here

    and putting our worries on paper ina list

    this is the first step to how Rori taught us riffing — all the older posts in the power and self esteem series on the side bar starting from the second oldest

  400.  #400heartbeat on May 2, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Daria – can you use photoshop or similar? I make collages or small watercolours, then scan them in and work a bit more on them digitally (saved in a high resolution). The results can be sent to a professional printer, say an edition of 20, but nowadays they can be ordered one at a time. Yes go for it!

  401.  #401heartbeat on May 2, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Daria – you can put them on your website – if you use wordpress with a template with pages it’s really easy.

    Full-on boy here tonight! Haha!

  402.  #402EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    @ #387 Apple Jack: “I feel guilty for saying the words, “the world needs me.” As if I am so special and God like that I can “fix” all these problems. I feel that is arrogant of me and I should not be arrogant.”

    @ #380 Daria “WAT DO YOU MEAN we cant make people better…I WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE BETTER”

    I feel hesitant that this is the correct forum for my post because I am going into my male energy here to respond by teaching as I do for my Reiki students … but I feel compelled, so here goes:

    Apple Jack: ah, we ARE EACH so special and unique – remember (ALL mainstream religions agree on this) we were created in the likeness of GOD … our Souls are a spark of His heart – beloved and pure, and our purpose in this Life is so unique and personal – your dreams and desires DO matter and all your contributions are worthwhile and Blessed by Him … I feel to DENY the miracle that is each of us is the ultimate arrogance …

    Daria: As a Healer I can only share my own perspective, which is: although my physical presence is the conduit for healing (and wondrous, magical healing has occurred hundreds of times) it is not ME but the Power of God (Great Spirit, Consciousness, Buddha, Mohamed, Energy, Power – whatever strikes resonance with you) working THROUGH me…but the person I’m working with has to accept and participate in the healing (except for children) for it to be effective for any length of time. I feel to arbitrarily want to go around healing people doesn’t work because it interferes with the other person’s Journey (and free will) on this Path of Life, which is not up to us to decide what is right and what is wrong for them. We do not know what is best for anyone but ourselves …

    a Healer can only open the door and turn on the Light … and until you remove Ego from the equation (as in wanting recognition) you will not attain what you desire as a Healer …

  403.  #403EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    oops, I mean to say Miraculous, not magical, but that works, too!

  404.  #404Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Earthdancer and heartbeat, thank you both so much. I’m feeling more clearer and open now. I’ll do my best and be open to what the universe wants to drop in my lap.

    My sis-in-law even found free online art classes for me to take! She’ll be giving me that info later. I hope to be able to take a portfolio workshop in the summer, but for now I really gotta figure out a way to hone my skills. I have lost the eye to see, I need to regain it, but I guess it’s true what everyone’s been saying that if you ask the universe will provide in some way shape or form. I would love to master that manifestation and attraction in all aspects of my life.

  405.  #405Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Earth Dancer – i feel triggered.

    Yes I’ve heard this a million billion times. I feel disappointed.

    I dont GET this.

    I hear it, and understand it, but I don’t FEEL and GET it.

    I hear that you Do get it and that’s cool

    I don’t know if I WANT to get it.

    I’m doing my worry list and it’s not about Solving The Problem

    its aobut Stop Solving the Problem

    I’ll get it when it’s right for me

    I feel angry and mistrustful when people talk about no ego.

    I love my ego. I got my ego’s back.

    What you said to Apple Jacks is how I understand my ego.

    My ego is special. I AM great. I AM special. I WANT To heal peopel adnt to be told I’m great and be famous.

    I havea big egooo. hehe. I feel defensive.

  406.  #406Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I love showing off! I love receiving love! I love receiving attention!

    I love feeling triumphant!

    Humbleness is way overrated.

    UFF… I feel weird and uncomfortable.
    I love my feelings

    Me no play small.

    Me like flashy show off.

    I want to have did it won it bested it.

    I WIN.

    I love my fear.

    I don’t GET this concept no.

    I feel amused and alos intrigued that our “stop solving problems” lists have triggered problem solving.

    Is this our solutions coming to us without solvign them> or is it our not solving triggering others to their own healing

    either way we are doing Rori’s Stop Solving Problems post, second to oldest on the Power And SElf Esteem section, and these lists will lead to us learning riffing.

    i feel sad i still don’t feel it

    i’ve given up selflessness, my past friend . i love you selflessness and i won’t abandon you, and I love my ego too, i love you all thank you

  407.  #407Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Apple Jacks please post the free online classes! Id like to do them too!

    Heartbeat I’d feel great to have this DONE and have people buying my artwork

    feels huge and overwhelming, yet the steps you laid out sound walkable thanks

    EarthDancer – I feel shaky. I feel love for you and I feel afraid of pushing you away with my triggers!

  408.  #408EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Hi Daria;
    I am feeling smiley amused also with the problem solving LOL , as I said, I was in male energy when I posted.

    my post is from my perspective only, I feel you are right when you said you will GET it when the time is right… or not! Or you will decide that it does not resonate as true for you…And that’s OK…each Journey is unique. I was referring to Ego ONLY as it relates to Healing, and that’s been my experience over the last 12 years… not with any other part of Life … nothing wrong with wanting to be famous … 🙂

  409.  #409Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Daria – I LOVE your honesty! It inspires me! You got it on posting the classes. Soon as I get them they’re going up here.

  410.  #410Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    EarthDancer – I felt so strongly triggered this time and last time about the herbs/yeast/uti/bacteria thing.

    I feel EMBARASSED!

    I’m feeling the urge to downplay my emotions because I THINK they’re way out of proportion.

    Is this a mirror of how people react to my helping them?

    I feel confused. I love myself and my strong, surprising and embarassed feeling feelings.

    I love myself.

    I feel fear!

    i love my fear.

    I teach and I THINK IM A GREAT TEACHER. people learn well from me because IM A GREAT TEACHER.

    stuff that goes through me IS me.

    the only time i try to heal and take myself to the side is when my doubts feel overwhelming and i think they are blocking me

    I feel so confused and intensely triggered by this!!

    i want to heal people just by being in my presence and then me to say , yes I DID IT.

    I DID IT.


    yup. and I would feel powerful.

    i want to feel powerful.

    I feel afraid.

    I don’t really DO so much healing to know i have experience

    i feel ashamed to think that I can’t celebrate my power.

    I mean its cool if I use divine power and it goes thru me,

    but i really want it to be me

    like i designed this flyer. yes the inspiration, it cmae thru me, but it was me.

    i feel weird.

    i don’t want to push away my ego.

    i love you ego

  411.  #411Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    I felt confused and weird when this amazing acupuncture lady,

    an older lady who i respect and feel good around,

    I told someone, yes she is magic she’s famous.

    and she paused for a second and then shes like no no.

    And almost like she made teh choice to be humble – my thoughts went to ‘ this mya be because of her faith/religion’ she’s buddhist

    i don;t know


    i felt weird



    I don’t want to NOT BE FAMOUS

    i don’t want to be humble

    i don’t want to be small

    i don’t want to not be paid attention to

    i don’t want to not take the credit


    i feel so confused!!!

    i am going to be ME and if for some reaosn ME wants to be big powerful famous UNHUMBLE me then


    it’s for a good purpose! and there goes the working thru me hehe

    the working thru me wants me to have a big EGOOOO

    like Trina! Im the baddest bitch


    i love msyelf

    i feel fear of competing and putting others down

    i love my fear

    i deserve my love






    thank you

    omg i fee like im being emotionally rocked like huge powerful waves!!!

    i love my feelings!

  412.  #412Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    HA internet ! i still win

    my body is NOT just a shell

    I AM NOT just an empty vessel





    I AM ALL



  413.  #413EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 6:49 pm


    Follow your own Truth 🙂

  414.  #414Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    this feeling huge and feeling small feels confusing as hell

    yes i love God and i feel small like a child

    yes i love myself and worship myself and I AM GOD

    that is I AM GODDESS

    I am all

    it seems

    big and small

    all is me


    thanks God


    thanks Daria


    i am having spiritual epiphanies

    i went to church toda in a tube top dress and the priest was attracted to me i think hehe

    we have Orthodox priests and we marry


    i was thinking what would it be like to have sex with him hehehehee


    hella funny

    i was leaning back

    it felt hard at first

    i really had to open my heart

    it felt difficult to open my palms out

    facing forward

    then… breathing helped… i even focused some on expanding my pussy hehe



    i am having religious epiphanies

  415.  #415Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Thanks EarthDancer –

    I posted this but it is probably in moderation… trying again:

    this feeling huge and feeling small feels confusing as hell

    yes i love God and i feel small like a child

    yes i love myself and worship myself and I AM GOD

    that is I AM GODDESS

    I am all

    it seems

    big and small

    all is me


    thanks God


    thanks Daria


    i am having spiritual epiphanies

    i went to church toda in a tube top dress and the priest was attracted to me i think hehe

    we have Orthodox priests and we marry


    i was thinking what would it be like to have sex with him hehehehee


    hella funny

    i was leaning back

    it felt hard at first

    i really had to open my heart

    it felt difficult to open my palms out

    facing forward

    then… breathing helped… i even focused some on expanding my pussy hehe



    i am having religious epiphanies

  416.  #416Daria on May 2, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Thanks Earth dancer –

    clearly stuff about rel



    is being moderated cuz i wrote some about that and hasn’t shown up, happend before

    and i think to some other sirens

    so it will probably show up later

  417.  #417EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Thanks, Daria;

    I personally am not that into




    so I feel interested in what you posted

  418.  #418Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Daria, you are so cute.

    I’ve been following your convo while fb chatting with a guy who I am feeling very frustrated with.

    What you wrote reminded me of something we have on video from when my son was 4.

    I was saying it was his birthday and that he brought cupcakes to preschool.

    He interjected, “I made the cupcakes.”

    “R helped make the cupcakes,” I said to the camera.

    “No, I MADE the cupcakes!” he declared, putting his whole body into it for emphasis.

    “You stirred the batter, right? You did a great job!”

    “NO! I MADE the cupcakes!!! I MADE them. I didn’t help, I MADE them.”

    It is one of our favorite home movies. 🙂

    I feel scared this might trigger you, but I hope it doesn’t! I’m not saying you are childish, but child-LIKE — which, to me, is a wonderful quality. <3

  419.  #419Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 7:10 pm




  420.  #420EarthDancer on May 2, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    @ Lucy: 🙂

  421.  #421Daria on May 2, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Lucy – hehe no I feel validated!

    Hehe –

    I was mostly talking about how I think the priest found me attractive in my tube dress

    turns out he’s already married and the huffy but cute kid was his hehe

    i still think he found me attractive

  422.  #422Daria on May 2, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    i also had some stuff about feeling really big AND really small and this epiphany feeling with it

    most likely it will come in later after moderation

    either way, on my browser if i hit the back button it goes back with the writing STILL IN THE BOX which is nice, cuz i saved it for myself

  423.  #423Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    My problem list:

    I feel afraid of my daughter dying and wish I could prevent it.

    I’m a little scared of my cancer coming back.

    I am in debt.

    I am having trouble losing the weight I want to lose even though I am eating only 1300 calories a day and exercising one hour or more each day.

    I don’t like any of the available men who live within a reasonable distance from my house.

    I am supposed to be going to a movie with tattoo man tomorrow but I just noticed that the movie we were planning to see isn’t in theaters until friday.

    I don’t feel motivated to do anything constructive.

    I still like TN man and want to meet him.

    There is a hole in my living room ceiling where water comes thru from the upstairs bathtub.

    I don’t know how to maintain my butterfly garden.

    I left suitcases on the front porch that I was going to put in the car and I didn’t know it was gonna rain so now they are wet.

    I can’t get the underarm stains out of my favorite white summer top.

    I had another gall bladder attack last night.

    I don’t know what to get my mom for mother’s day.

    One son needs his allergy shot at the same time the other son needs to be picked up from college.

    All my kids get depressed sometimes and I feel so bad for them and wish I could fix it.

    My daughter wants to get married but hasn’t found anyone.

    I have tons of phone calls I need to make and that feels stressful.

    Next I guess I’m supposed to look for a theme?

  424.  #424Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    I don’t see a theme.

    Does anyone else see a theme in my list?

  425.  #425Daria on May 2, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Theme : I am overwhelmed

  426.  #426Daria on May 2, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    I think we should e-mail Rori our lists and she will tell us our themes.

    Themes or not, we can do part two

  427.  #427Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Thanks, Daria. What’s part two?

  428.  #428Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Maybe kinda overwhelmed, but maybe frustrated too?

  429.  #429Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Maybe it’s: I can’t seem to get what I want and do what I want.

  430.  #430Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    That’s interesting, cuz TN man said it seems like my unconscious definition of LOVE is “I can’t have what I want.”

  431.  #431Daria on May 2, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Part two is the post after that. I think it’s the flip, but I’m nots sure

  432.  #433Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    This 25 year old who wants me just told me “I’m starting to think you have superpowers.” hahaha

  433.  #434Lucy on May 2, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Okay, so we turn them into “I want…..” statements?

  434.  #435Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Yes Lucy that’s the next part. I wrote the flip and I want statements last night but it was too wordy and lengthy. UGH! I’m going to try again after doing Rori’s finding feeligns meditation tomorrow.

  435.  #436Apple Jacks on May 2, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Lucy – post #432 AWESOME!!!

  436.  #437Siena on May 2, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    I’m listening to Targeting, and just got to the part of Riffing, so although I didn’t plan to, I guess I’ll join you ladies in your riffing!

    I feel tired with all the work that I have to do.
    I don’t want to do this work anymore.
    I feel afraid that my main client is going to pull the plug and I’ll have to go out and get another big client.
    I don’t think I’ll ever find my guy.
    What if my guy got tired of waiting for me and went off and married someone else?
    I don’t feel good waiting for a guy to call me.
    I feel forgotten.
    I feel like I am more loving than I am loved.
    I’m dreading the next holidays when I show up alone and have to answer questions of why I’m not married yet.
    I’m afraid that my sisters in laws look at me funny and ask my brothers if I’m gay.
    I’m tired of dating. I don’t think I’ll ever have a quiet, simple, romantic life with my guy.
    I don’t think I’ll ever own a home.
    I feel jealous when I watch those tv shows where people buy homes and talk about having to remodel the 5-year old kitchen. Isn’t the kitchen they have enough?
    I’m afraid that if I get pregnant, my body will look really terrible and I’ll get really fat again.
    I don’t like going on Facebook anymore because I’m tired of reading everyone’s good news, when I don’t really have any good news of my own.
    I hide from some of my friends because I don’t want to talk about my love life anymore.
    I don’t like talking to my mom anymore because I think she’s so hurt by what I’ve become (or not become) that it hurts her to talk to me.
    My life would be so much easier if my guy would just come along.
    I’m afraid that my leaning back is showing lack of interest, and that I’m missing out on a lot of fun because I’ve leaned back.
    I’m still hurt that he left, and I don’t know why I’m not over it yet.
    My car is falling apart, and I need to have it fixed, but I don’t want to buy a new one.
    I feel like I’m failing at life, barely getting by. And that I’m too naive to be able to fix it.

  437.  #438Siena on May 2, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    I want to be able to stop working and focus on other things in life that are more important.

    I want my guy to show up! I want romance and love and sex and fun and laughter and conversation and hopes and future.

    I want to feel like someone’s #1, without having to earn it.

    I want to spend the holidays with someone that I am in love with and secure with so that I can bring him around my family and we can all relax because it’s no longer uncomfortable that I’m still single.

    I want a beautiful home.

    I want a garden.

    I want a chef’s kitchen where I can prepare amazing meals.

    I want a stable where I can go every morning and ride my horses. I want a groom to take care of my stable.

    I want children and family.

    I want to have a wedding party! I want to be able to register at stores for wedding gifts.

    I want the ‘grown up’ things in life like a home, a real car, a husband.

    I want my mom to feel like I’m okay and that I’m not a failure or somehow she’s failed me because I’m still single.

    I want closure with The Man.

    I want to feel safe and loved, and like I’ve come up to stride in life, and like I am no longer the one left out.

  438.  #439Siena on May 2, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    I want to be able to stop working, but I feel scared to not work. I feel obliged to work. What will I do for money? Do I even care? I love my feelings of fear and obligation.

    I want my man to come into my life and finish this stupid dating thing. I feel tightness in my shoulders and a lump in my throat and very very tired. Yawning. I love my apathy.

    I feel desperate and like throwing a temper tantrum. Where are you already!? Where the FUCK have you been! I love my pettiness.

    I feel pissed and silly. Who am I to say when he comes or when he goes? I feel so silly writing this stuff. I’ve tried everything else, who’s to say this is going to work? And I feel pissed that I HAVE to do this stuff! Did any of my girlfriends have to do this just to find the men of their dreams? No! They had it so easy, and it’s just been impossible for me. I love my anger and I love my feelings of silliness.

    I feel defeated and like I’m running out of time. And all the asshole last night could talk about was time and how old we are and how we’re both alone, and I just wanted to hit him. I’m glad I cut him off and stood up to leave. I feel proud of myself that I can say no. I feel afraid that I’m saying no too much. Is there such thing as too much no? I love my confusion and feelings of defeat and feelings of being old.

    Oh the tightness is back in my throat, and now I feel queasy stomach. I think I might be sick. I’m so tired of feeling left out. This shouldn’t be this difficult. I love my fatigue.

  439.  #440EarthDancer on May 3, 2010 at 9:30 am

    *hugs* to you, Siena, and everyone else who riffed … I am going to try my list later … only have a sec now …

    love to all you rockstars who are still moving forward in spite of the disappointments … 🙂

  440.  #441Lucy on May 3, 2010 at 10:50 am

    The flip:

    I want my daughter to have everything she wants and to live a normal life span.

    I want all my kids to be emotionally healthy.

    I want to be healthy, cancer-free, and physically fit.

    I want to have plenty of money.

    I want a man to come into my life whom I adore and he adores me.

    I want to feel completely relaxed about all my interactions with men.

    I want to feel physically, mentally, and emotionally motivated and energized to do all the things I need and want to do.

    I want TN man to initiate a meeting soon so I can know if there is any in-person chemistry.

    I want my home to be in good repair.

    I want to have a beautiful, well-kept butterfly garden.

    I want dry suitcases. 🙂

    I want my favorite clothes to be stain-free so I can wear them and look and feel beautiful.

    I want to give my mom a mother’s day gift that makes her feel special and loved.

    I want my son to get his allergy shot and my other son to come home from college and I want all my parenting responsibilities to flow easily and without conflict, worry, or stress (including getting my son to the airport next week).

    I want my son to stay safe in Europe.

    I want to always be loving toward all my family members.

  441.  #442Lucy on May 3, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Hugs, Siena.

    “I feel like I’m failing at life, barely getting by.”

    I feel that way sometimes too. <3

  442.  #443Brenda on May 3, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Apple Jacks, RE: #390 – List

    Hi! You’re welcome! In high school, I had an excellent English teacher who had us do timed writings in class. We were instructed to write whatever comes to mind for 10 minutes. There were no rules what to write, on what topic, or even to have proper grammar and spelling. The goal was to write continuously for 10 minutes. He said if nothing comes to mind, write, “Nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind.” He said the act of writing will naturally get your mind in gear to write, and the thoughts will begin to flow. He said most of our best writing comes AFTER the introduction, once we get our creative juices flowing! I hope this helps! 🙂

  443.  #444Apple Jacks on May 3, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Daria – post #407 (and anyone else who’s interested) about the free online classes. this is the page that my sis-in-law gave me….

    Unfortunately it’s not a “class” like I was led to believe. *Grrrrr* MY SIS-IN-LAW!!! I love her but sometimes….

    But I found an alternative. Link:

    The art graphica page has some interesting free tutorials like: Pencil Drawing Lessons, Watercolor painting tutorials, Oil painting, free pastel painting lessons, acrylic, charcoal drawing lessons, wetcanvas painting basics and some more. You just click on them and it should give you step by step instructions (if you’re advance it’s probably good practice). These are the very basics of course. They also have videos that are give extensive drawing lessons that range from beginning, intermediate and advanced. They seem pretty inexpensive. About $40. Hopefully this will be at least a good place for both of us to start till we can jump into a workshop completely.

    Out of my boy, and back into my girl. 🙂

  444.  #445Apple Jacks on May 3, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Oh hey Brenda, thanks for the free write suggestion.

  445.  #446Daria on May 3, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Apple Jacks ! Right on!

    And wow that’s so cool how you foudn something even though the first one wasn’t what you wanted! wow that’s really kina amazing if you think about it

  446.  #447Apple Jacks on May 3, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Daria – Gosh I didn’t see it that way. Thank you! I feel like crying. Your words are making me feel all giddy and tickly with joy inside, and I want to cry! I just did not even look at it that way….:):):) I’m smiling from ear to ear. I feel encouraged and empowered. 🙂

  447.  #448Angela on May 21, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    I’m a Princess that feels like that. I’m trapped in a dark cold dungeon of no love and my supposed to be boyfriend is the. Dungeon Guard and he’s pacing back and fourth looking at me and saying what are you trying to do in there and. I’m saying why would you consider doing this to me and. I thought you loved me and cared about me as well as. I love and care about you did. I do anything wrong to you to deserve this kind of punishment from you and when are you going to let me out of here anway.

  448.  #449Rori Raye on May 24, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Angela, Welcome – and it’s YOU who has the key to the dungeon – not him. Love, Rori

  449.  #450Angela on May 24, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    It’s way too cold dark and there are big sewer rats in here and. I’m scared and frieghtened out of my mind
    babe could you please let me outta here today and. I’ll show you that it has changed me back to the way it’s supposed to be. I LOVE YOU more with each passing day my handsome hunk. I’ll prove you that when you let your sweet loving caring and kind princess outta this cold musty wet. Dungeon and you know that you were in the wrong putting me in that dreadful place. 🙁 I am always here for you no matter what ok my strong masculine babe. I do so care about you and your feelings so much.

  450.  #451Brenda on May 25, 2010 at 7:34 am

    Hi Angela,

    Why do you love a man and want to give more and more devotion when he’s hurting you like that? I was in a relationship like that last year, but I am learning that I am worth being TREATED like a princess…not a prisoner. What’s going on?

  451.  #452Angela on May 29, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Well Brenda,
    To answer your question? Why do i love a man and want to give him more and more devotion. I am trying to ask him why he is hurting me the way he is.
    I am also starting to wonder does he like hurting me for how. I’ve been reacting differently towards him now and. I’m hoping that he will treat me better soon because life is way too short for treating me that way for no reason what so ever and. I’m hoping that sooner than later he will come to his sences that. I’m the right woman for him. 🙂

  452.  #453Rori Raye on May 30, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Angela – Welcome, and I hope you’re taking good care of yourself. Also – I took off your last name, but I may not catch it next time…I suggest not using last names, in case you change your mind and want it off later, I won’t be able to…Love, Rori