Twisted Dark Forces, True Connection and Considering Love

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handheart200Here’s my answer to a lovely comment by Terrance (there’s a whole series of his comments, so find them all…) about his relationship with a woman he dates — who he spends more time with than any other woman, and who he hopes will “develop” to her “full potential” and be a fantastic partner for him.

Okay – I watch enough “Bachelor” and “Bachelorettes” to see how this works (Yeah, we’re supposed to laugh at that, but…we really can see it.)

This season I saw Reid and Kiptyn take it all the way to the end with rings, etc…but when I saw the footage of Jill and Ed in bed together just nuzzling – I almost felt I had to look away, it was so personal and private.

Don’t know if anything will last, or if anything is real, but I saw men mull it over, and I saw a man fall in love.  Even if it’s all make-believe and fabricated and acting – it was obvious, clear, unvarnished, you could feel it.

I saw men talk about love, and I felt a man FEEL it.

The first “Bachelorette’s” Ryan was like that with Trista.  My husband is like that with me.  You, Terrance, may be like that at some moment with your “right woman.”

And you may not.

You may be a man who needs to “consider” other things on your way to Forever After.

Sometimes, a man will serve himself best if he marries a woman without that “feeling,” and after “considering.”

Same for a woman.   Marrying a man after “consideration” instead of from that “all-enveloping love” that does exist, but doesn’t necessarily have to exist in order to actually HAVE the blissful love and relationship and intimacy you want – the whole lifelong shebang.

Sometimes, a more comprehensive, intelligent, well-considered thing takes over when a man usually has the WRONG impulses and he figures that out – when every woman he FEELS that way about (just like us) is the total “Miss Wrong.”

He will, when he’s ready in his life to marry, marry a woman who may not elicit the gut level, primal, capital letters love he remembers as a young man and still dreams about, but who elicits the compelling urge to combine forces with her on all levels.

If a wise man makes this choice, rather than to cater to his subconscious trauma responses and compensations and the attractions he was born into…he will make a “good match” with a woman who makes him feel GREAT.

I think, Terrance, this is what you’re thinking about doing, here.  Thinking about taking this well-considered route instead of blindly following the FEELING. And I want to say BRAVO to you…and…something tells me there’s a time for “well-considered” and a time for “gut” – and that you’re in your “gut” time, and that you’ll know the woman when you FEEL it.

So… if you are a woman and dating Terrance, and he’s still dating other women but spending most of his time with you…and YOU are truly Circular Dating and not getting all hung up on Terrance and trying to hide it…this is a good deal for you as long as you aren’t hung up.

AND – for a woman with a guy as cool as Terrance, with the feelings we women generally have if we’ve been with a man awhile…it’s pretty much not all that possible to be “not hung up.”  Polyamory is a dream for most of us.  A titillating dream sometimes, a nightmare most.

You are doing the right thing, Terrance, for now, and sooner or later, you will have to make a choice, or you’ll feel like you’re leading her on. You’ll have to weigh your options and make a choice to commit to her and keep her or let her go — and — I think it will become very clear to you what to do.

I have a dear friend, a relationship expert himself, who found himself in the situation of not knowing which dream to fulfill — his dream of lifelong love with a woman who was mature, sexy, beautiful, self-actualized, lovely and adored him and made him happy, or his dream of his mythical ideal woman, which gave him nothing but sorrow.  He chose love and happiness, and is a blissful and brilliant husband now.

He knew, deep in his soul, that his mythical ideal dream of a woman came from a place inside himself that was not really himself. That she came from a place created by twisted forces working on him and through him from birth, and that he COULD remake those impulses by following his happiness and contentment and attraction rather than following what automatically and instantly appeared that was “old.”  Instead of following the “poster” that had been on his wall forever, he took a new picture and pasted it over the old.

You, Terrance, may have a mythical ideal dream girl, but I somehow don’t think so.  I think you’re going to be overcome, instead, by a FEELING, and that feeling will lead you in a GOOD way — where you don’t have to “consider” so hard.  I think you may be one of the lucky ones.  To want what is also good for you.

Now, for us women, the same exact thing is true.  We are attracted of our own free will, and we are attracted by dark forces inside us.  If we have a history of being led by dark forces to misery in love, then we have to change course and start “considering” our other options.  We have to switch from automatically being drawn to a man who feels chemically “right” to us,  to considering our feelings for OUR SELF when we’re with a man.

We are not always drawn to a good match for ourselves.  Often, and more and more often these days, with disconnected, abusive, cold childhoods everywhere, we are automatically drawn to more disconnection, abuse and coldness.

To find the warmth, love and joy that belongs in your life, you may have to follow a different path than the one you feel drawn to.

Terrance is figuring that out right now.

If you are the girl in this scenario…look back and see where all the paths you’ve been most drawn to have led you, and “consider” the other paths open to you.

Instead of being “drawn” to a man…allow yourself to be drawn to the image and experience of feeling joy in the presence of a man.  Allow a man to be your environment instead of your center.  Allow a man to be so drawn to you that you can look at your experience of him without fear of losing him.

If you are the girl in Terrance’s scenario, and you cannot Circular Date because you are too drawn to Terrance — that’s the time to walk away.

If you are the girl in Terrance’s scenario, and you CAN Circular Date because you’re more interested in your own life than in the “draw” you feel to Terrance — then he’s a good experience and experiment for you, and you can BOTH “consider” what you want and weigh it against what you are automatically drawn to.

If a man doesn’t know he wants you within 3-4 months, chances are he never will.  That simply eliminates him by virtue of how that makes you feel…which is likely not good.

And if a man is hanging in there, hoping you will turn into the woman he wants…I know what a “draw” that can be.  It’s the draw of the dark forces inside you that are telling you you are “not enough.”  And, in my experience, it’s hard to know if – with that man you will never feel “enough.”

For the woman who is married to my friend, it’s too soon to tell.  It’s too soon to tell if his dark forces will push the marriage out of shape, or if they will fade forever in the sea of bliss that the marriage creates and grows daily, moment by moment.

It’s much easier to be loved by a man who wants you in his whole body, gut and mind and heart, than a man who wants you through “consideration.”

And that’s what Circular Dating can help you discover.  Where a man is coming from. How “into” you he is. If he’s got a nice blend of gut and consideration going on for you.  Whether he’s fighting his dark forces, or being led by them.

Yes, you can push love and a man away.  Yes, you can short-circuit the connection by staying forever in your brain instead of your heart.  Yes, you can damage a relationship beyond repair with jealousy and obsession and making him your center instead of yourself.

But – ask yourself this — why did this particular man show up?  What is the “draw” here for me AND for him?

If I am pushing love away, so is he.  He’s drawn to me BECAUSE I’m pushing love away and making it easy for him to be without intimacy, too.

So — you see — it works both ways.  Seeing potential in someone is a trick.  It means you see yourself as one step ahead.  It’s just another way to avoid love.

One of my favorite films of all times is Minnie & Moskowitz, by John Cassevetes, with Gena Rowlands and Seymour Cassell, and I saw it again with my acting class last night.

Two people totally wrong for each other, totally unsuited.  Except that he is unwaveringly and steadfastly in love, and is there at the moment when she gives up trying to hold herself together and falls apart right in front of him and his instinct to take care of her takes over them both.

The ending is happy.  The ending says that intimacy is where it’s at, no matter what you THINK you’re drawn to, and that all it takes is one person being drawn enough to the other to allow the intimacy to happen.

So, Terrance, let us know how it goes…and if you’re the girl in this scenario…step away.  Please.  Get some air.  Get some other men.  Start “considering” your options.  You don’t have to give him up — but you have to “give up” on him and start building up you.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1DocK on July 29, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Wow – Rori – so much for me to sort through!!!

    I always wondered – I would have a “serious” relationship with a “good” guy and then a “nightmare” guy (who never looked that way in the beginning).

    I don’t know why it flip-flopped like that but I suspect that some of those “dark forces” were at work. I would have that guy that was SO good to me and then move on to one that had something of a mean streak – emotionally abusive, angry, vindictive – not all of these in one guy but variations on the theme. Of course, the ones that were not so good for me tended to be the ones that I felt that initial chemistry and connection with.

    I never had to deal with a cheater or player (knowingly, doesn’t mean something couldn’t have happened I didn’t know about – my suspicious, mistrustful side) but the “bad” guys would act like I walked on water and then slowly, carefully, chip away at the veneer of my confidence. These men were truly toxic and not just clueless. With one exception only, I was the one to walk away – eventually – but it took longer than it should have to do this.

    It has taken many years of self-reflection, spiritual pursuit and the like to get myself into that place where I could say no to the attraction of the “dark forces” and stick with someone that validates the good in me.

    My current LI started out a little bit clueless in some ways but he is very sweet with me but still “all boy.” Even so, as I have used the Rori tools to be a better half in a relationship and watched as things got better and better, strange thing happened. I could feel this funny feeling in the pit of my stomach. One part – fear – is this too good to be true? Is he a good actor and playing me? The other part – feeling his authenticity – how do I feel? I have been leaning back and now he is leaning forward but I almost feel MORE in control than the other way and do I like this?

    I think I am getting to that place where I can truly accept a good thing and know that I deserve it and be able to fight those dark forces but it is interesting how we gravitate towards what is harmful – but familiar – until we face our shadow side and integrate it in the right ways.

  2.  #2Rori Raye on July 29, 2009 at 11:30 am

    What a great comment, dock…thank you for your insight…Rori

  3.  #3Mercedes on July 29, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Rori: This post is brilliant! When I started reading, I saw some things I wanted to cut/paste and tell everyone I totally agree. As I continued, I realized I would have to cut and paste the entire post. Truly amazing and exactly right on (from my perspective) of what’s happening here.

    Much Love,

  4.  #4Aldonza on July 29, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Rori, what a fabulous post. How it allows for *both* kinds of attraction to happen and let’s us be in control of choosing what’s right for us.

    I did the “well considered” route for my first marriage. I’m experimenting with chemistry this time around. Chemistry scares me, because so much of it seems to come from the dark side of things.

  5.  #5sistasage on July 29, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    in regards to a truer partner for a wiser man, one who “elicits the compelling urge to combine forces with her on all levels”, i feel that working in my life right now.

    bless my dad, but he was a bit of a mess, and i stayed drawn to the messy folks for over ten years. recently, as i have been exploring this relationships with an elder, i felt able to take steps to put the old pattern of wanting to save a troubled person to rest. then, i became attracted to someone more like me; emotionally mature, willing to be vulnerable and healthy enough to really share and build something with me.

    the work i have done to become a healthier person is allowing me to move beyond old paradigms in my romantic intimacy. yay self-care! yay considering things instead of just continuing to drag the old patterns around!

  6.  #6Dan_Brodribb on July 29, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Sistasage – And also cause you think I’m pretty, right?

    *bats his eyelashes*

  7.  #7Daria on July 29, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    OMG. This feels scary and kind of ominous. It feels powerful.

    I kinda wish Rori had never found out about MatchMatrix because something I liked about Rori’s stuff was how she said it worked on ALL men. I didn’t like other programs that would say this person is not suited for you because, etc…

    Lately I’ve been feeling like Rori has been saying more of “this person may not be suited for you” stuff and I don’t like that belief. I like the belief of I can have everything I want.

    I want to feel attracted to the guy I marry. I feel desperate about this but only half way desperate now.

    I know I will get what I want because I believe I will get what I want.

    I really like this post and also I feel SO TRIGGERED by it because I struggle with so called “false attractions” and yet maybe they are not so false. Ugh.

    I am starting to be more attractive to guys I feel attracted to but my attraction can also fade.

    I feel frozen by the thought of being in a marriage where I am not in love with my husband. I do not want this.

    What about the high attraction feeling… that feels like a different kind of joy too… I want to enjoy that feeling.

    I feel so drawn to that one guy that you know is having a baby. I feel like the environment stops around him. I want to feel like that with my husband and also feel good about myself. I feel doubts and pinches in my toes. I love my doubts and pinches. This is what I want. Thank you.

  8.  #8Robin on July 29, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    It has felt very hard for me to stand up to those dark forces that manifest themselves in bad behavior from guys, and to be able to stand up for myself and really rock some seriously solid boundaries..

    I can now catch when something is happening, as its happening, and I can see that I have a choice in that moment

    And yet I still feel sometimes that it would be much easier to cave in, throw in the towel and just go back to my old habits of being a doormat…

    And yet in that split second of deciding how to handle a situation, and feeling myself want to give in, be understanding, etc, I can feel my self-esteem start to plummet even CONSIDERING something that doesn’t feel good to me…

    Tonight something interesting happened…I had a date with a very nice guy Ive been out with a few times..I found myself procrastinating, I had a rehearsal, we were gonna meet after that, I got back to him later than planned, and he suggested a place, but it felt out of the way to me, and so we agreed to meet closer to my place at a 24 hr diner, he mentioned I would probably get there before him,

    It was getting late, but I got there at 10:30, and was waiting, which normally wouldnt feel good, but in all honesty, I knew it was partly my fault, I gave him til 11 to get there or call, and I closed my eyes for a few minutes, and pretty much decided this was gonna be a short meeting simply because I didnt feel like being out very late

    Well he got lost, I didnt give him directions, he drove all the way to my side of town, but b/c I was tired, I told him when he finally got there that I felt like going home,and I feel a little guilty for that..

    He txt me at 10:52 and said he was close,I fell asleep woke up at 11:10 and left b/c he wasnt there, and THEN he calls, and I told I already left, and he asked if I wanted to turn around and meet him, and I told him not really, that I felt incredibly sleepy..

    He apologized and turned around and met me where I was, so I saw him for a hot minute, but I really could feel myself wanting to say, ‘sure we can still meet’, but I feel glad I didnt…

    I dont feel angry with him, I feel a little bad with myself that I waited even THAT amount of time (but I fell asleep, so whatever…) and that I didnt just tell the people I rehearsed with that I had to leave by a certain time…

    And I am now feeling strange that I maybe was too accommodating, he apologized, and I told him “its ok, I just feel really sleepy”

    When the truth is it doesnt feel good to wait..

    And yet, I somehow brought this on myself, I told him Id be done by 8:30, and it was 9:15 when I actually txt him back that I was finished rehearsing…

    This all feels very interesting to me..

    And hes texting me now how sorry he is that he was late, but that it was great to see me…

    I feel sleepy and breathing, Im gonna go ragdoll and go to sleep,


  9.  #9Tracy on July 30, 2009 at 3:55 am

    I feel triggered and a bit confused about this post.
    Whenever i read about finding the right man for marriage and there is a mention of settling for what feels right i feel triggered and scared.As Daria pointed out i feel unsure and worried that what may feel right may not be attractive.
    I know that partly the reason i feel this is because those guyz i have been attracted to in the past have not made me feel good in the end….they were toxic and i was not in a good place myself….Yet those i did not feel any attraction for are the ones who were interested in settling down and starting something serious…..
    I feel that the dark side of me tends to take control and draws me to these men who may not be the best for me….I am circular dating and meeting lots of men but the ones i am attracted to appear clueless…….and for those i am not attracted to are mostly the nice guyz…….the more i circular date though,the better i get at attracting guyz i feel much more comfortable relating with…..but i haven’t hit the jackpot yet.
    What Rori mentioned about marrying a guy who knows in his gut mind and heart that you are the one is exactly what i want for myself…..but i want to feel attracted to this guy that is actually good for me….i want to feel drawn to him and maybe even wonder why i got so lucky….
    At least now i have a set goal for exactly what i want…..
    Thanks Rori for this post….

  10.  #10Daria on July 30, 2009 at 10:04 am

    i have decided to change my story.

    I am free of false attractions. It doesn’t matter if Rori or matchmatrix or anyone says i should have them (sorry Rori).

    I now realize its in how I look at things. I’m 27 and I’ve never been married or divorced, never had children. This is because I’ve never felt like I wanted to get married to any of the men I’ve dated.

    If I had false attractions by now I would have married someone not good for me. But no. I’ve never felt like marrying any of the men that I could tell were toxic for me, even when I didn’t know what toxic was.

    I don’t have false attractions, I do have attractions that I haven’t felt good enough for, in the past.

    I feel glad to start feeling good enough, and start allowing myself what I want and accepting my feelings (of being turned on) around men I do find attractive.

  11.  #11Daria on July 30, 2009 at 10:08 am

    oh. I did and still do want to marry one of the men I’ve dated. I didn’t have relationship tools to have a fulfilling relationship. I’m doing much better now.

    I do still feel worried, sometimes in circular dating I do feel like i’m keeping all men at arms length trying to treat them equally. I still want to learn more about myself and this will be more about learning I deserve EVERYTHING I want. I will be giving it to myself in my imagination which lately has been manifesting into reality within a few seconds.

  12.  #12DocK on July 30, 2009 at 11:23 am

    Daria – you do so much deserve to get what you want. I love that you are manifesting so quickly!!! very powerful!!

  13.  #13Robin on July 30, 2009 at 11:28 am

    This was my response to his apology, and now I feel better about the whole thing…It just doesnt feel like a big deal to me…


    “Thank you, I feel really appreciative that you care, and it did feel good to see you too. The truth is it doesnt feel good to me to wait, and on the other hand, I feel guilty that I didnt finish when I said I would…what do you think?”

  14.  #14Ann on July 30, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    This post is quite interesting. I’m still learning to accept and love my dark side.

  15.  #15Terrance Thames on July 30, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Wow! I don’t know what I did to deserve all this attention! Are you tryin to make me blush :-)? I am honored by the impact I seem to have made here. I hope that I am teaching as much as I am learning. Otherwise I would feel that I am being unfair.

    Rori- Great post and great new perspective to consider

    “I think, Terrance, this is what you’re thinking about doing, here. Thinking about taking this well-considered route instead of blindly following the FEELING. And I want to say BRAVO to you…and…something tells me there’s a time for “well-considered” and a time for “gut” – and that you’re in your “gut” time, and that you’ll know the woman when you FEEL it.”

    I think I am somewhere in between here. My whole life I have been very analytical and it has served me very well. It honed my decision making skills and I have made some pretty good decisions because of it. On the other hand, it is recently come to my attention from a workshop that I took that up until a several of months ago I had a unconscious fear of losing control of situations that I am in. It has only been recently (say last 6 months) that I have been practicing letting go of control of my surroundings to my feelings and my intuition. Now i’m somewhere in-between. So far I have, a pretty good blend and it is working really well.

    “So… if you are a woman and dating Terrance, and he’s still dating other women but spending most of his time with you…and YOU are truly Circular Dating and not getting all hung up on Terrance and trying to hide it…this is a good deal for you as long as you aren’t hung up.”

    This is beautifully stated and I completely agree. This seems completely fair for both sides.

    “You are doing the right thing, Terrance, for now, and sooner or later, you will have to make a choice, or you’ll feel like you’re leading her on. You’ll have to weigh your options and make a choice to commit to her and keep her or let her go — and — I think it will become very clear to you what to do.”

    Again I appreciate for the words of encouragement. I feel like I am doing the right thing as well. Hope and Faith are powerful feelings indeed. I think I have matured enough to know the right thing to do when the time comes for me.

    “You, Terrance, may have a mythical ideal dream girl, but I somehow don’t think so. I think you’re going to be overcome, instead, by a FEELING, and that feeling will lead you in a GOOD way — where you don’t have to “consider” so hard. I think you may be one of the lucky ones. To want what is also good for you.”

    You are right here. And I hope so! That would make things a whole lot easier for me 🙂

    “If a man doesn’t know he wants you within 3-4 months, chances are he never will. That simply eliminates him by virtue of how that makes you feel…which is likely not good.”

    I’m not so sure about this one. Some men might take longer than others depending on their past experiences and may need more time to make a decision. I feel like this should be a good guideline to follow, not a rule.

    “So — you see — it works both ways. Seeing potential in someone is a trick. It means you see yourself as one step ahead. It’s just another way to avoid love”

    I’m kind of lost here. I don’t feel I am a step ahead, I just know what I want. Maybe I am not deep enough in myself and my feelings to know whether or not I am avoiding love but it feels like I am not. I actually
    feel more open to it due to how I date. I would love some clarity here. Thanks!

  16.  #16Tina on July 30, 2009 at 5:39 pm


    When I met 1 1/2 yr. man , I had this “feeling” a lingering “feeling.” I thought hm, I must be developing feelings, feelings such as love. I couldn’t put my finger on it but boy it was feeling. We talked about our relationship at the beginning he said “one day at a time” and “nothing heavy”, I was cool with that, but this feeling just wouldn’t leave me alone. He pursued me the whole time, he wanted to see me everyday, we “acted” like we were in a long term marriage type situation. It wasn’t until I stumbled upon this site that I came to understand my “feeling’ that I was experiancing, was in fact not love. I’m dealing with it now, I finally asked him again (seeing if I would feel different) about our future longterm plans, he gave the same answer, “one day at a time” he left the “heavy” part out this time. I had to make a decision, I decided that being exclusive with him was not serving my purpose, which is to eventually marry again. The feeling I felt at the beginning of our relationship has reared its ugly head ugh! ooooooooh, ok, lol I see. Your a man , he is a man, I had to (to save my life lol ) extract myself from “the pull” he has on me. I dont know what his intention is, nor is that my concern at this point, I need to run from this man. My feelings of “not enough” is part of that “pull” I feel, along with other feelings, sadness, abandonment,loniliness, neglect. He has to be no longer a part of my life right now, so I started dating other men lol , I just love circular dating , its novel concept whodathunkit!. I need to work on my boundries more lol, its a fun process nonetheless.

    There is more to this process , I know. Right now I’m taking the “dont knock it till you try it approach”

    I trust that at some point you will feel whether your leading her on or not 3yrs. wow

  17.  #17Tina on July 30, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    The bells and whistles are going off big time lol, he left his tools at my house, so now my dilema is how to give him back his tools with minimum contact, I feel comfortable allowing him in my home , while I am out. I would prefer it that way, at the same time I feel curious about our next contact face to face however my feelings of anxiety and fear stops me from suggesting that approach. What do you think?Terrance.

  18.  #18gina on July 30, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    It’s so good to be back on this site – I’ve been gone a coupla weeks getting my new apartment all situated. I was SO excited to find all these new posts – like a feast!

    I feel SO GREAT about my new place. I LOVE it. I spent the last couple of years desperately missing the big city life I led in NY and Chicago, and I felt sorta miserable being back in my home town. Something else that haunted me: I was on of the “Dove Girls” – one of six girls who posed in our underwear on billboards and in magazines to challenge societies’ stereotype of beauty and celebrate Real Curvy bodies. It was bigger and better than my dreams – I was on a bunch of TV shows like the Today Show and Oprah. Oprah touched my boob, and I thought for sure it’d turn to gold. but it didn’t. The campaign ended and i was like whoa! I had been at the top of the world, but then I felt like I somehow fell from grace and landed in a pitch black, mildewy basement in Brooklyn with 5 other people, 4 cats, one bedroom, and one bathroom. I’ve slowly emerged from those depths – It felt like I went from Hell, to survival, to existence, and now I feel like I am LIVING again. I am so blessed with this new living situation. I no longer feel apathetic – I feel excited about keeping this place organized and clean. I don’t feel burdened by work – I know exactly where I want to work and I am excited to make it happen. I don’t feel like ignoring my bank account and hoping for the best – I am finally actually reading the Dave Ramsey book that my mom bought me years ago, and I am excited to apply what I learn. I have been making my bed every morning, and I think that has been an important habit. I feel so good. Now that Im feeling so close to the creative power of the universe, I’m feeling fulfilled. I am feeling indifferent about marriage right now. I really want passionate love or nothing. Maybe in a few years, if my desire for a baby outweighs my desire for romance, then I will settle for a “wise decision”. But right now, I am satisfied with or without a committed relationship – if a man actually completely fits in my world and makes it even better, that would be icing on the cake. But, most importantly, I FINALLY feel enthusiastic, which I know attracts amazing opportunities and generates more enthusiasm, thus MORE opportunities….I guess the trick is to recognize the dark forces when they rear their ugly heads so that they never lead me back down to the pits again. Well, at least I know they’ll never lead me back to the same pit. Next time I’m in a pit, I hope I won’t extend my stay by beating myself up for being there. Hopefully, I’ll remember that the pits have taught me so much in the past. I hope I will accept the pit that I’m in, determine that I deserve better than a pit and that I am capable of getting out of it by simply feeling my way out.

  19.  #19gina on July 30, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    About whether we can “make” it work with any man – I am relieved when I consider that some men just aren’t “right” for me. That means it’s ‘not my fault’ – there are forces outside of my control that are at work, and it would be foolish of me to continue to expend energy on something that isn’t meant to be. I know that I can attract my desires, but sometimes the universe says “no” to my specific prayers – and later I can see why: there was something else brewing that was better than what I thought I wanted in the first place. There was a deeper desire, yet to be articulated, that the universe was already responding to.

  20.  #20Tracy on July 30, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    I feel glad that u are getting to a better place at every step….
    Today i feel so much better and energized and i feel bubbly…..I had a date yesterday and i was feeling unsure about meeting the guy because i was not feeling connected to him…this would have been our second date…
    After reading the post i felt that maybe i was leaning more towards the unavailable guyz and those who were actually attracted to me did not seem so attractive…
    I know that i have patterns i need to change and i feel confident that i am changing them and i feel that i am getting better and better…..I actually see that i can attract this life and relationship that i want and it will be something great and wonderful….
    I feel excited that i am getting to a deeper realization of how to find happiness and real love……I feel confident that i am attracting and meeting with men that i can connect with and i actually see how i can find a wonderful man who will stand above the rest and who will want to be with me….I don’t feel scared of circular dating and meeting guyz i don’t feel deeply attracted to…i feel sure that the right guy will be attractive and exciting and i will feel drawn to him and i will feel safe with him….and as gina put it he will be the icing to the cake as my life will already be exciting…

  21.  #21Tina on July 30, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I said to myself tonight, if I met another frenchmen…

    Im beginning to feel a conspirousy. This one is on a moutain top emailing me from his blackberry, hm, I wonder if they all know each other lol. I was beginning to feel put off, its a feeling ok, put off is a feeling lol its more of a mild annoyance,impatient, your beginning to bother me feeling all rolled up into one. Oh he is emailing me again, wait a sec lol. he’s telling me he is 150ft above the mountain, nice ok where was I?.

    Yes my feelings, anyway we decided to meet finally tomorrow for our first date. He moved the date from two days ago, and I was beginning to feel um put off. I emailed himand said this is how I am feeling and not expecting to hear from him again, well he did finally use a telephone to call me and leave a message and called me again until I answered the phone. I am not feeling to go to china,suba diving nor parachuting, I said this to him, so he made plans to stay at ground level and above water, this feels safer for me.

    This other possible date makes red wine and drinks it , im assuming probibly by the gallons lol ok im judging, I work in a rehab and do not drink, I feel uncomfortable.

    Certified massage therapist dude, is still calling for a date, he ignored me for two days after I said, he cant “hang out” at my house and I wont be hanging out at his house. I feel ignored and disrespected, I said it in a nice way. I used my feeling messages 🙂

    Sensual massage guy is still ignoring me after he told me his penis size (6 inches), hey , I never asked.

    1 1/2 year man has made email contact with me, I answered back and said if he would like to pick up his tools he can, I may have to “save myself” and go for a walk or hm while im on a date with 150 ft above mountain guy. Wht is he doing up there at 2am lol. I feel curious.

    Am I supposed to keep it at 5 men regularly?. oh I forgot to mention the man who is coming to my area to do some fly fishing, we havnt set a date or time yet. He thinks saturday but saturday im hanging out with my sister and friend for the day, we’ll see what happens.

    I feel good today, I tended to my garden, got in some sun tanning and folded my laundry. I go back to work in a few weeks. I have a big whoopdedoo thing on tuesday, im feeling exciteda bout that.

  22.  #22Tina on July 30, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Gina, I remember those billboard ads, I remember feeling wow their brave, I could never do that. I was feeling hopeful that I would see more of you girls. I would allow a sensual massage however I dont feel comfortable allowing even OPRAH! to pinch my boob lol.

  23.  #23Tina on July 30, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    I feel comfortable in cotton granny panties with lace at the top, im not sure i think its like brazilian style granny panties lacy at the top but not to revealing.

  24.  #24alias girl on July 30, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    gina i feel very happy for you. i also feel appreciative of you hsaring your journey.

    tina, db, simply shannon and othrrs thank you for your support in my upcoming blog adventures! i feel weird!

    tina i feel amused by your sense of humor. i feel like i’ve done the circular dating thing without having done it. argh. i feel so utterly not attracted to so many men. and i feel wildly attracted to some men but i don’t know how to magnetize those men to me. i seem to be drawing in men that i don’t even want to go on one date with. still an improvement from what i was initially attracting. i want to go on dates with men I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST KISS. or at least consider kissing. or at least try to consider kissing. i don’t think that’s too much to freaking ask. i feel angry. and amused.

    i want the whole shebang. i don’t want some tepid connection with some guy who means well. seriously. i want someone i feel really proud of who he is and i like kissing under all circumstances.

  25.  #25alias girl on July 30, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    gina i don’t feel i expressed myself fully. i feel really really excited about your new place and good vibes and positive attitude. i know how much work you have put into your new place to make it home and i just really really feel that and it feels good. 🙂 i feel good just thinking about it.

  26.  #26alias girl on July 30, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    hmm underwear preference. well i feel more comfortable wearing a thong with the string that goes up my butt crack if i am wearing clothes over my underwear.

    but i feel sexier wearing full bottomed sexy underwear. not granny panties though and i don’t really like cotton for some reason. they don’t feel comfortable and seem to constantly ride up.

    wait how did i get on this topic?

  27.  #27Daria on July 31, 2009 at 12:36 am

    I was brainstorming about having a blog too.

    And I discovered lots of things about myself that I want.

    I’m having really good time and results using my “what kind of life do i want right now tool” where I think about what I would want to happen right now, just to “shake up” the fixed version of reality im seeing. I’ve been pretty much getting what I want a lot.

    So today I found that I wanted to go dancing and it was actually time for a bellydance class… I went in and since I’m so in my body danced without looking in the mirror and I think did really well….

    I’m getting really good at feeling tension vs. relaxation, ie lean forward vs. lean back, ie. the way I think about it adrenaline vs. oxytocin.

    It feels good to dance without strain because I’m using the moves to feel good in my body and relax energy rather than try to look a certain way.

    And even though I felt mortified by my “look” a couple of times in the mirror, I feel sure I actuall look even better than when I’m adjusting my steps by what I see rather than what I feel.

    I felt so in tune with myself.

    I’m feeling so glad that I can now just do what feels better, or think the thought that feels better… doesnt have to be something that is necesarily possible.

    For example I had a great time with my cool black liquid alien husband today.

  28.  #28Daria on July 31, 2009 at 12:42 am

    I do attract men I’m attracted to, I just haven’t allowed myself to believe I deserve their attention. Now that I’m allowing that it’s “all good.”

    I really enjoy feeling lit up, uplifted, and energized around a man. I think a lot of the reason I haven’t liked guys in the past, even if they were “nice” is maybe I felt drained by them.

    So I know the right man for me I will feel attracted to. Because I want to be happy, I’m not lost trying to cause myself pain. Yay. I feel relieved.

    Also I was imagining stuff I remembered when I was young I had one male friend who was kinda chubby and I was just friends with. Then later I had a crush on a boy that I felt super attracted to and leaned way forward and he liked a more feminine energy girl at his school.

    So I’ve been kind of energetically placing guys in these molds.

    I want a new mold for an attractive man that wants me and I allow him to get close and we have a relationship. And it feels good and Energizing. Magical. Everything I want and more good stuff. And I feel like I’ve arrived. I finally did it. Yay. Celebration.

  29.  #29Daria on July 31, 2009 at 12:46 am

    I want to share so much and I feel encumbered by unclear expression… or… blocks blocks blocks. I love blocks like legos. I love my family.

    I have decided that my mom and dad are busy falling back in love and have decided to lovingly leave me alone to be myself be happy and be my purpose and happiness. Yay. I am now workign on aligning with that thought everytime I “forget” or I feel my body tensing up because of old thoughts about my “story” that is the way things used to be which it no longer is because I changed it now.

  30.  #30Daria on July 31, 2009 at 12:57 am

    I’m getting some EFT help and some business coaching coming up. I signed up for a manifesting money online class and have been really motivated hearing the recordings. It feels good to be immersed in this ‘vibe’ all the time by listening to the recordings.

    Also I’ve been going to Toastmasters and I won the impromptu speaking mini stuff a couple of times.

    And… my friend and I are starting a mastermind group for creating an e-commerce business.

    And I’ve realized that somethig I love to do is talk with people laugh and I love telling amazing stories and painting or imagining beautiful pictures with colors and I can share that with people. Even on here I have been told that I have cool descriptions.

    I just signed up for a Inscibing your Story kind of video class preview or soemthing which is about writing stories about your life which is what I wanted to start doing. Also these stories will transform your life.

    Also Justin and I are signing up for a 30 day online money making class.

    And I’m going to Romania in about a week. As you can see most of the stuff I’m doing is portable, just like I want my life to be. Meaning my business stuff I want to be able to do from anywhere, and feel free.

    Somehow all of this has been happening while I’ve been focusing on doing ONLY what I want to do. No matter what or who.

    I can now do super fast EFT in my head, it’s no longer about tapping really but more about me magically stimulating the points with my attention. And I can FEEL them, and feel energy moving around from one to the other. and it Feels good.

    I had an amazingly sad feeling cycle and I cried a lot. I really allowed myself to cry and now I am feeling really good and more and more energized and powerful. I feel amazed at how in tune I feel with my cycle and energy levels etc.

  31.  #31Daria on July 31, 2009 at 1:01 am

    I’m feeling moved, drawn into the computer, and kind of sad. I feel like my writing is not good enough and I LOVE that I feel that. AWw… I love myself. I am so lovable. I feel embarassed, awkward, angry, not good enough. I just LOVE my good enough feelings. I am amazed at how many things in life I have felt not good enough. AWww poor me. I feel glad I can change it all now. I feel so blessed to really be magic. When I was young I wanted to be magical and have super powers and now I really do! Wow. Talk about living your dreams.

    I love my doubts. I love all of me and my tremblys and fears. me love me.

  32.  #32Daria on July 31, 2009 at 1:11 am

    This is something I really want to remember, I feel excited, I’m on the way to healing that old “lost love” thing:

    “We will all have experiences meant to ‘break our hearts’—not in half but wide open.” – Don Miguel Ruiz

    We ALL DO!

    AAAAND… my heart was breaking OPEN! There’s nothing wrong, damaged, or fatally doomed in that. It all IS good in the end. Yes. whew.

  33.  #33Tracy on July 31, 2009 at 4:16 am

    I feel that the way i relate to men is slowly shifting…i feel myself saying the truth more often and being open…and the men are actually attracted to it…..
    I have been reading this over and over again but to see it actually happening is inspiring…i feel blessed and happy and i feel that i am really getting in touch with my inner self…
    I read somewhere that we can never truly commit to others until we first commit to ourselves…for me it means taking full responsibility of my happiness and what feels good to me….I haven’t felt so great in such a long time….
    i feel that my heart is open and i feel vulnerable but strong at the same time….wow….now this feels really new for me….
    your progress is truly inspiring….

  34.  #34Tina on July 31, 2009 at 9:19 am

    Well, 1/12 year guy came over last night, he sent me an email,saying to love myself and to stop using men to fill that emptiness inside myself, wow I said thank you. I emailed him back and said, I am wake and he could pick up his tools since I am awake. I had to see him again, he never said ok ill be over to pick up the tools, he just showed up. We sat on my porch for about an hour barely talking. I used feeling messages about how I was interpreting what “one day at a time” meant for me. I said Im feeling not a priority in your life, somewhere between taking a crap and mowing the lawn. anyway I did cry some, god I was feeling so sad, at one point I thought to myself, this is so dramatic. I asked him “what do you think?” he said he wasnt paid to think, then I asked well , How do you feel? he said “I feel lonely” and he said further that he would get over it. He only got a few of his tools, I didnt feel to help him to find the rest , he knows exactly where all his tools are. He didnt take all of his tools. I did try and feel joyful, the only time I felt joy was when the neighbors dog came onto my porch, I bought dog treats especially for her and I was feeling happy to see her again, I gave her 6 treats. I remember saying to myself ‘i love my feelings of sadness and lonliness and tried as much as I could to feel where those feelings where in my body, I couldnt the feelings where more of a presence, my heart was aching, I didnt feel to make any move in his direction, I breathed, trying to locate where and how I was feeling the whole time.

    I remember feeling that if I asked him to to stay that he would (of course he would) this time it was different, I never asked and never hinted, He looked painful to me, I could feel his physical pain, his facial expressions said it all. I still felt fear of losing him, my need for him to stay was outweighed by the really cool stuff Ive learned from this site 🙂

    He said that I already made up mind to date others, I said yes, I have to. He said rather than focusing on my feelings , I should take a course or something lol, I said yes your right, I enjoy male nude photography, Im looking at websites that specialize in this and feeling inspired, he said that isnt what he meant , I said what do you mean? the conversation just drifted off. I had a dream last night, my tomatoes came out and I shared them with the world, I made spagetti sauce 🙂 I sliced a few up and gave out tomato wedges 🙂 I remember tasting the tomatos I grew, wow they tasted really sweet and juicy, almost but not quite like strawberries.

  35.  #35Terrance Thames on July 31, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Tina- Thanks for that perspective. I have been out of town working so I wasn’t able to get on here to respond in time but it looks like you handled your situation beautifully!

    Daria-Extremely inspiring! I love it!

    AG- I would love to read your blog!

    Additionally on a side note I am co-hosting a workshop in Downtown LA and I was think about inviting one of the active bloggers here to attend to work with the guys and to get an unique viewpoint into how we teach and what we teach. It is Aug 7-9 but I think we will only have women there Aug 8-9. Every woman that has attended has gotten a tremendous amount out of it and I thought it would be cool to maybe have whoever goes post about it like Erika did. I feel like it would make for a great discussion. If anyone wants to come in the LA area, let me know and I will give out all of the details!

  36.  #36Daria on July 31, 2009 at 10:28 am

    I am feeling bad about a man i’m dating. This man is clearly in love with me and has been for several years. He wants to marry me.

    I however have looked at him like a friend. Now since I have learned tools I am dating him again. Because he treats me well (first man to start buying me food at a time I thought he was crazy to do that) and I feel safe.

    Unfortunately I’m still not feelilng attracted to me. It seems to me he makes baby noises or gets into a ‘baby talk’ mode that I don’t enjoy. I have myself gotten into baby talk mode with men I liked, but somehow with certain men it turns me off. I don’t remember if I ever liked it with men that turned me on, the baby talk sounded more romantic than baby. Also I find myself making all the little decisions like what we will do and stuff.

    I feel drained.

    I will lay down and watch a movie and he will come towards me and I will feel like he’s ‘hovering’ and encroaching my space. He wants to kiss me and most often I feel encroached upon. I feel like lean back. I also get the feeling that he is a “dumbass” or something, like I’m in charge of the thinking. I get the feeling he has low self esteem too.

    Ugh. I feel guilty and drained. I know there are things I can express here to shift our relationship. It might just be little things,

    like for example I may like him to turn me on by talking first before coming over and hovering all over me.

    I want to feel held and loved in a way that feels good and romantic, not where I feel I’m holding like my mentally disabled child. I feel guilty and horrified writing that. I feel afraid for the health of my future child.

    I feel kind of sad and down about this. Help anyone?

  37.  #37Daria on July 31, 2009 at 10:34 am

    I meant to say I still don’t feel attracted to HIM. Not me. In the past I didn’t feel attracted to him physically, now I kind of do, but the way I feel around him does not turn me on.

    How can I best shift this? I am thinking that perhaps I’m not expressing enough and not leaning back enough on deciding stuff and not thinking.

    I’m trying to imagine if I would like the men I DO feel attracted to hovering over me and I don’t think they did that.

    Am I supposed to open to hovering. It feels gross.

    I can imagine a man I do feel attracted to leaning back and I lean back with him.

    Uhoh. does that mean i’m attracted to lean back men? Or only someone that can respect my body language and space?

    I used to LOVE watching movies with the guy whos having a baby. He would hold me and talk to me and ask me about interesting stuff in the movie. It felt SO GOOD.

  38.  #38K on July 31, 2009 at 11:09 am

    I am just starting to get into Rori’s ‘strategies’; I bought “Get the Relationship” finally…prior to that I was reading the blogs, email send outs, watching the videos on the website,etc…getting a feel for the whole program/life change.

    I have been in a relationship for the past three years; it was comfortable, and just what I needed a the time ( my daughters and I were coming out of a horrific situation), and it was very non-threatening, easy going, low committment. Finally, about February, I ‘came out of it’ and decided to make some life changes….quit my job, set some goals, and decided ‘I want AND DESERVE more!!” I started focusing on my feelings, needs, and inavertantly started leaning back with my boyfriend ( he just moved in with me in October). This was before I “discovered Rori’s ideas.” It had great results, but I have realized that this relationship is not for me anymore, and I have asked him to move out.

    I have expressed myself via feelings and leaned back a lot…kinda gone on with MY life, without worrying too much about what he and I are doing (or NOT doing)… and it has affected him. He has leaned in, bought me flowers, been more affectionate…I think he is realizing that I really mean it. I am not sure where ‘we’ are going, but we’ll have to see; he knows he’s gonna have to ‘step up’ since I’m stepping back.

    I feel some anxiety because I am moving away from what is “comfortable” but I am also feeling really up beat because however this relationship, or some other one, works out IS for the best…the best for me! I deserve and want ‘more,’ better, different…it hasn’t been working for 30+ years, so a change it is coming…scary and exhilarating at the same time….

    I have to a small extent, since I don’t know much, have been trying to ‘spread the Rori WAY’ with my friends….we have been trying the lean back technique and it works. We even just post on FB, email, text, or say, “lean back sista’ to remind each other!!

    One example….I was on a ‘date’ with a man I know, in my circle and I’m ‘attracted’ to him….we were at the theater, I physically leaned back, away from him in my seat, and crossed my legs, again away from him. It wasn’t 30 seconds before he leaned in and put his hand across my leg to touch me!!! So awesome and weird at the same time; this was when I had just started reading up on leaning back….and it REALLY worked!!!! Testimonial time!!!

  39.  #39Rori Raye on July 31, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    K – Welcome – and thank you for the great comment. I so look forward to reading more from you…Love, Rori

  40.  #40Rori Raye on July 31, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Daria – you’re writing up a storm here, and it’s very powerful and compelling. I think you’re a great writer and can do whatever you want! Love, Rori

  41.  #41Rori Raye on July 31, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Alias Girl, I want to encourage you to go for whatever you want. You’re a terrific writer and a hugely insightful woman…Consider yourself patted on the back and encouraged to fly however you feel…this nest will ALWAYS be here for you, no matter how much you experiment! Love, Rori

  42.  #42Mercedes on July 31, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Terrance: I don’t live close enough to attend, but if you’re ever doing anything like this in the Houston or surrounding areas, let me know…I would love to go. Also, I do travel a lot, so keep us posted as sometimes I may very well be in the area anyway…

    Much Love,

  43.  #43Terrance Thames on July 31, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Mercedes: Thats what I heard from Erika, but I had you on my mind for sure for this. We are also doing one on Aug 28-30 as well with a different group of people. Let me know if you are around then and I would love to have you.

  44.  #44heartbeat on July 31, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    I feel kinda angry when messages that could be sent via email or facebook etc are put as comments on this blog.

    I feel put off sharing my experiences.

    I felt the same recently at my writers group when three members who already knew each other well only looked at each other when speaking.

    I feel put off though I enjoy following everyone’s progress, Gina and Tina I love your stories, Alias Girl and Daria too. Others also, I’m working off memory here. I feel other voices between.

  45.  #45heartbeat on July 31, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    When I’ve been in groups, whether as member or facilitator, and the group is about sharing feelings and personal stuff – I get blindsided when allegiances, conversations, activities and phone calls etc are brought into the group from outside that are not of this moment. I’ve experienced this when there has been conflict and people have spoken outside rather than in the group, in the moment – it makes me anxious and uncomfortable.

    I have a boundary about this in any healing group. I feel conflicted in myself as to what this blog means to me – I want it to be a healing space yet my head says it is a public forum. I can’t reconcile the two right now.

  46.  #46heartbeat on July 31, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I read and savour every comment and notice many feelings coming up in me – joy, fear, amazement, sadness, anger, gratitude.

  47.  #47alias girl on July 31, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    thank you rori! and terrance too! i feel very supported.

    k i feel enthusiastic that rori’s tools are working positively for you.

    daria i feel very inspired often by what you share and write. i feel confident you will be successful at whatever you choose to do.

    tracy. mmm me too. i feel connected to what you wrote.

    thank you universe for my magical life and awesome relationships that i never even knew were possible!!!!!!

    and please take care of the woman I worked with who passed away and will be very missed by all who knew her. i feel very sad and confused by death. thank you for keeping her in a very loving place as all is love. that is all i believe in. all that exists is love. and blocks to love.

  48.  #48Linda on July 31, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    I am in tears at this post. It goes along so well with exactly what I have been dealing with. It is as if I have been in a battle. I have become so weary and feel like I made a decision that I had to make but I avoided making it because I wanted to avoid the result of it.I am an intuitive, anaylitical and emotive decision maker.
    It serves me well most of the time. I dont know if I did the right thing. Everything feels weird and off for me right now.

    I have been circular dating an out of 7 men since February I was only attracted to one and I would fully admit I became hung up on him. I walked away from him on Wednesday night, I had to. Here is why…

    Our history has been one where he would come on to me and when I responded to him favorably he would withdraw usually within a period of a week. This has happened over and over. He professes he wants an exlusive relationship but yet does not put his money where his mouth is. I asked him, knowing that he had been on the dating site we met on that day, to give us a dedicated try. I added if you cant do it, than I have to go…. and here I am gone. He just couldnt do it.

    After reading this post, I believe I understand a bigger picture. He is a man who is stuck between considering and gut. He has been chasing the mythical ideal woman his whole life( he admits it) and his dark twisted forces that has led to broken marriages and emotional enslavement to something he cant find.

    I was believing that he would choose a different path and let the more comprehensive intelligent well considered thing take over because he had finally figured out that wrong impulses were leading him …but that did not happen.

    For me I have always had this intuituve quiet knowing that we would be together. I still cant dismiss that but I had to draw the line in the sand. Maybe I did the wrong thing, maybe I should have let it ride and play itself out been my patient…but I felt so disrespected. This feels better even though I did not get the response I was hoping for.

    My attraction to him is still very real, but he does not get to exploit that. I guess I was hoping that he would turn into the man that he spoke about he wanted to be but that did not happen. Under all this stuff there is a true connection between us that you dont find everyday, it is rare. I wish that he would deal with his fear and trust issues once and for all maybe it will still happen but I will not be caring, understanding, and there while the process happens. He can as he says get his stuff together and then look me up.

    I dont feel like dating right now, I gotta look after myself become healthier in my decision making.


  49.  #49Rori Raye on July 31, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Linda – remember this…really hold it in your heart. Circular Dating – as I’ve “made it up” is not about the man, the relationship, getting Mr. Right – any of that. That’s the RESULT that happens anyway – but the whole purpose of doing Circular Dating is THERAPEUTIC. It’s Free Therapy. It will HEAL you, if you do it the way I teach it. It doesn’t matter if you have a “bad” time…it only matters that you PRACTICE – and that the quality of men who show up around you starts to go UP…Love, Rori

  50.  #50Tracy on August 1, 2009 at 12:25 am

    I must admit that initially i was circular dating with an intent of meeting THE ONE…….and at first i kept hooking up with guyz i wasn’t attracted to..and it made me feel even worse….for now i am circular dating to have fun and i am getting curious about the men i am meeting and it feels more fun and i am learning so much about how men relate…..I still have the bad days,cancellation and akward moments but i am learning to go deep into my feelings and finding my beliefs around different situations and how i can change myself and make me feel better…
    Rori is right about the men one attracts getting better….they actually get better with time…i feel more in tune with what i want andi feel that i am discovering what i really want for myself and for my happiness….
    I feel that my options are getting better and better and it feels great…I still have so much to learn and i feel myself progressing to a much better person each day.
    I made a big step afew days ago about not feeling guilty when the guy i meet does not feel attractive andis too persistant….I am learning to be honest with myself and to others about my feelings as much as i can…..
    I d feel that the man whom i will settle down with will be attractive passionate about life and will be loving….I see this qualities in the various men i date and i feel that i can attract a man with the full package…
    I am really greatful i feel so much better now….hugs to everyone!

  51.  #51cookie on August 1, 2009 at 12:28 am

    I feel dismayed, frustrated, n damaged. I feel so afraid to lean all the way. I feel so much love for my guy and yet I feel that this relationship is not repairable. I feel like some decisions have made without me. I feel like an outsider. I feel like a crumb snatcher waiting for a morsel of love n affection n yet because I know that at any point the food can b gone or snatched back at any moment I feel distrustful of even of the tidbits of love I’m getting. I feel like I’m falling apart my heart is broken.

  52.  #52cookie on August 1, 2009 at 12:34 am

    I feel stubborn n unwilling to pull my heart out. I feel so low. I feel like I’ve been in this relationship for too long to b surprised n yet I want to be surprised. I feel alienated n invisible even all the areas of my world even here on this blog. I feel like I’m a mess.

  53.  #53Tracy on August 1, 2009 at 12:35 am

    I feel excited that you are setting up a blog….i am certain it will be great…Its a good point to share yourself with so many people who can learn so much from you…
    I feel sad you lost a your friend…I will pray for her as well…
    I feel sad that you feel bad about your situation….I honestly believe you did great and i also believe in patience as with time you may be surprised how everything will reveal itself….keep taking care of yourself and as always your comments are truly inspiring…

  54.  #54Tracy on August 1, 2009 at 12:44 am

    i feel your pain.for me i would shift my attention from the situation and go out and start taking care of myself…
    I have learnt that when i feel so bad about myself and situations around me the answers lies within me and what i interpret the situations to mean….taking care of myself and loving myself even more deeply helps me look at my problem more clearly and then i am able to make a good decision…I read somewhere that before i can commit to loving others i must first commit to loving myself…its a good place to start

  55.  #55Tracy on August 1, 2009 at 12:51 am

    I forgot to add that bad feelings or what some call negative vibrations are actually beneficial and for my case they help me discover parts of me that i have neglected that need to be looked feeling alienated and left out i look within me where i may have not taken care of me and neglected me…..and this provides for me a good place to start working on myself….its been truly helpful in helping me heal and reconcile with my sad feelings…

  56.  #56cookie on August 1, 2009 at 8:48 am

    I feel afraid that what I’ve thought about my man for several yrs is true. I think he is sick I think he is bipolar, he has medicating himself with weed for 12yrs, 8 of which I’ve known n loved him. When he isn’t having an “episode” he is a sweet n gentle man n my favorite person in the world. But the other times he is either depressed or enraged n hurtful to me. I have riding his ups n downs for yrs n its very painful. His family doesn’t deal w him when he’s going through but I’m w him the most. He

  57.  #57cookie on August 1, 2009 at 8:58 am

    Admitted to me that when he was 18 he was diagnosed as manic depressive and on meds but since then he hasn’t been evaluated or treated. I feel victimized by his rage but at the same time I feel compelled to love him n care for him. I feel so entangled as I’ve mentioned before. I feel afraid to turn my back n walk away, I feel afraid to stand still. Does anyone know anything about this disorder?

  58.  #58cookie on August 1, 2009 at 9:01 am

    Also thank you tracy for responding.

  59.  #59Linda on August 1, 2009 at 9:08 am

    Rori – when I found this site I was a mess and I am so much healthier. I love myself, see my value, know that I will have the relationship I want and need. The idea of circular dating was very foriegn but I did it. I have met lots of different types of men. You are right it is free therapy and I listened for every message from each and learned more about myself. Last week I was called a player because of my attitude toward dating, I got a kick out of it.

    Circular dating has made me a wiser and stronger woman/goddess. I found the strength to draw the line with someone whom I really cared for. This situation held my feet to the fire and character was proven in both of us. I will never let myself be dishonored or played for a fool. I love that strength I have now. I will pick it back up and circular date again, right now my heart is just not in it.

    Tracy I know you are right, time will reveal everything.
    As I parted his company I stated…”I am the prize here” and he smuggly said “I dont see it”. My reply, “oh its true”.. he replyed..”time will tell”. Interesting to say the least.

    Terrance made a comment about the statement of “if a man doesnt know if he wants you in 3 or 4 months he never will”. He said that sometimes it takes longer for a man depending upon his past etc. I was surprised by that from a mans perspective and will keep it under my hat.

    What feels weird about all of this is, that from the first sign of his waffeling with me I have had this quiet knowing that he was drawn to me like a moth to a flame. His vascilating back and forth between wanting a relationship and then pulling away has been like watching one of those spring door stops in slow motion. I have felt that the movement of the spring was actually a disipation of all the residue from the past so that when the spring finally settles still again the relationship be. I dont know, just a silly word picture but maybe there is some truth to it. The movement of the spring for me has been a learning, refining experience for sure. A time of considering for me too, allowing me to discover feelings, attitudes and more.

    I suppose I share this to encourage anyone who may be experiencing this type of thing. Dont let it consume you but keep a firm hold on yourself and not get lost or evaluate yourself by a mans words or actions good or bad.

    After all the vasilating, why would a man call you up and say ” You are the ONE for me”… and then just a few days later, be alloof and distant again. It is just like the little boy who cried wolf… after a while you just dont believe them…… Why not just leave me alone for goodness sake! I want a real solid,relationship, the one we have felt together and flows when he is open. Wow… he has told me so many times he is sorry for being such a pain in the a**, and he is a smuck and keeps his head up his own a**. Is he stuck between consideration or gut or is he narsasitic and bipolar? I hope that my actions show him that I require accountibility on his part.

    I hate the fact that I freely confess here that I wish he would miss me and realize just what he pushed away and forced me to do. I want him to claim me and do the things he said he was going to do. I wish I did not want that from him still. But I do. Just last Sunday evening, we sat by the water and watched the sun set, sharing a glass of wine and talking. As we left he pulled me close and held me tight and kissed me passionately and told me “I LOVE you”. Then Wed night he tells me he just doesnt feel it for me… how can that be? Whats a girl to believe? sigh


  60.  #60tinque on August 1, 2009 at 10:01 am

    cookie – I makes me feel sad to hear your pain. Manic depression (or bi-polar disease) is not an easy one to treat even with meds. When the symptoms present with anger which is what you seem to be saying, it’s really, really hard. I don’t want to frighten you but if you decide to hang in there, be prepared for hurt and confusion and more.
    I’ll share my story with you if you wish.

  61.  #61Daria on August 1, 2009 at 10:03 am

    Oh wow. Yesterday I did this hormone balancing stretch. It felt so good. It stretches all the woman parts.

    After, I laid back on the floor and started laughing and laughing and laughing. I was laughing on the floor for 10 minutes, just kept feeling like laughing. It was an emotional release and it felt really good.

    I really want to encourage everyone to try this stretch. The way it feels is AMAZING. So gentle and yet so magically releasing.

    It’s called the Ladybug move from I ordered the 1 move only “P.o.p” video to learn it.

    First I lay on my back with spine relaxed on the floor, knees bent out and feet facing each other

    \| /
    / \
    \ /

    Just like the stick person above, except knees are more out, feet are closer up to butt.

    Then exhale and press lower back to the floor (This feels SO good).

    Breathe, keeping back on floor and squeeze butt too (this feels like a real stretch oh boy)

    Breathe, holding the tension, and press elbows and forearms on floor to squeeze back (lats for those anatomically knowledgeable).

    Then release and take one knee and bend it over the other one, kind of crossing the knee across the body and pulse up lightly, then extend the leg still crossed over and stretch like someone is pulling your big toe. This feels like someone is stretching me from one hand to the other foot and wow it feels yummy,

    back up to pulse, then slide knee down along other leg, till knee is to the other foot, and press down foot.. This feels like another stretch cross the waist and back, then squeeze butt and lower back to reach the Other knee over and do the same to the other side.

    Repeat a few times. Use body feeling to get the stretch the way it feels good to you, and boy does it feel good. It stretches the “forgotten” parts of us women. It feels so joyful ! I feel so glad when I do it that I’m actually getting to feel places I didn’t know were tense, and they
    WERE. Feelings come pouring out.

    I feel so blessed to know these magical movements. I can love my body so fast and good and I feel so glad to know this. I feel like I know a great and amazing secret.

  62.  #62Linda on August 1, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Cookie, I hear you and feel that I have learned a bit about depression. The man whom I have been seeing lately has admitted fighting depression all his life. I laugh now at his using the word “fighting” depression because all I could see is that he was always accomodating and surrendering to it because it allows him to be unaccountible.

    Here is what I believe and have discovered. Look for clues. First of all, accomodating or babying a depressed person enables. I watched a story recently about a young 17 year old boy who weighed close to 800 pounds or so. His mother and father enabled his condition and waiting on him hand and foot, getting him food, video games etc. He had gastric bypass surgery and did not follow what he should do. It was not until his parents stopped their bad enableing behavior and exercised tuff love did he begin to snap out of his state of mind. They stopped doing for him and made him accountible. He finally got up and made changes for him it was a painful but beautiful thing to see.

    Examine your attitudes and see how you are tethered and may be enabling. I see depression as a lid that covers years of un dealt with dissapointment and insueing anger at how life has gone for the person. It seems to me they have a negative victum mentality and have low self esteem.

    If you read my earlier post, I have recenlty walked away from a depressed person. I want to help him and know I could be a catalist for his recovery but now is not the time. We were supposed to do some fun stuff last week end but instead he said he just was too tired and slept on the sofa like he was drugged! I endured it some but I left him there and did what I wanted to do. I went outside and detailed my car inside and out. Later I came in and asked he wanted to go watch the sun set and he said sure. We had a great time and he thanked me for it. I think I had a great influence on him that day. It was like he was surprised to have enjoyed himself.

    Dont take any of your mans behavior personally. Ther is nothing lacking in you except protective love for yourself. You are not the cause of his state he is. You are also not responsilbe for his comfort. Fear does not accomplish anything except keep us captive to bad things. There is help for this sort of thing, medically etc but I think the first step is freeing yourself from responsibilty of making things better or fixing them.

    I have done some reading on bipolar behavior. There are lots of sites with great help. It can be treated with pharmasuticals. Suggest it… if he wont get help, you will be faced with more of the same or you can make some descions from there to change your life. You clearly are not happy and I encourage you to look for ways to get that on track. You should be primary and he secondary. Love tangles up our hearts and ability to do things we need to do for ourselves sometimes. Concentrate on you and how you feel what you need want and deserve. Be your own best friend first.


  63.  #63Daria on August 1, 2009 at 10:34 am

    So yesterday I spent more time with the man I was feeling guilty for not being attracted to and I felt like he was hovering.

    So he did the hovering thing again and then I told him to BACK OFF! I got ANGRY!!! I felt weird and did not know where the anger was coming from and I said wow I feel angry this feels weird, i don’t want to yell and I don’t know why I feel this way and yet I feel ANGRY so I know that i’m feeling something that is real.

    So then he said something ” well how do guys youre atracted to act … ” and I felt even more ANGRY I yelled because I HATE feeling guilty or being told im not attracted to him when really i could be if i wasnt being told im not. So I said I don’t like being told that. I don’t like being hovered over.

    I said it feels rude, because I don’t see people on a date with the man hovering over the woman. I mean we have been friends for years and even had sex once a long time ago, right now we are just dating and I don’t feel comfortable with hovering or being so close to each other like we are totally living together. I would feel better with some romantic formality.

    I felt really glad I said something. I am realizing that him putting himself down feels icky not just putting me down (which he never does). So I intend to share my icky feelings and watch this transform yay.

    Also I realize in some ways I’m in the boy energy with him, for example we always do what I want, which is cool, but I feel like i get drained figuring stuff out. And them im always saying lets do this, etc, or even calling him up because i know he’s there. Since i know he will not push me away I have been leaning forward and have TURNED MY OWN SELF OFF.

    I am going to lean back (like right now I was going to call but will not) and see how I feel.

  64.  #64Daria on August 1, 2009 at 11:06 am

    I have a question. Man who you have feelings for calls you to discuss a joint finance thing.

    Do you bring up that you feel in love with him? Or not…

    I will now attempt to answer this question… (please other Goddesses as well)…

    1. No. Stay in the moment. Feel what you feel.

    What if thoughts of I love you come up?

    Share feelings. Maybe: I miss you. I feel awkward. I feel like im jumping on hot coals. I feel uncomfortable. I feel pained. I feel squeezed.

    Well… say he’s telling you about how he’s just gotten another job. It would feel awkward to say off subject…

    ohh I feel like hot coals talking to you…

    Lean back. Relax. Feel inside. Ignore the man (his potential response) except for how you are feeling.

    how did I feel talking to him;

    I felt calm. I felt glad to feel calm. I felt surprised to feel calm. I felt observant. I felt detached. I felt longing for more. I felt uncomfortable. I felt slightly sad. I felt disappointed. I felt regretful. I felt discouraged. I felt hopeless. I felt powerless.

    I can say…

    wow i still feel so drawn to you and I feel powerless.

    Do i just bring this up randomly?

    That is my question.

    Do I randomly say I feel so awkward talking to you, it makes me think about the past and being close to you and I feel sad, I feel powerless and icky.

    And now i feel like a desperate lonely woman clinging to her last hope for a man.

    I feel embarassed and ashamed to feel this way.

    What do you guys think… I think im onto something here…

    do you just BUST out and say this?

    or do you only say stuff regarding what he brings up and feelings that are not about him and get off the phone quickly?

    Please help with advice here Rori !

  65.  #65cookie on August 1, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Thank u so much, and I feel in my heart the feedback u gave me is wise and true. Over the years because of my own accomodating personality I have found it very difficult to take care of myself bc I have been so focused on loving and taking care of others esp him. I love that man so much I’m afraid of it. The few times I have been able to focus on myself was when we were on break or not speaking and once when I pulled back n let him do for me but dated other people. I seem to have lost that power and though

  66.  #66cookie on August 1, 2009 at 11:44 am

    I know what to do its been hard to muster that strength. Like linda I know my man is drawn n I have also wanted him to realize how much of a jewel I am n miss me, which has happened time n time again with us. I have began working out again n I have been sitting w my feelings n feelings more. Last night he spoke so nasty to me but I’m glad that I went home instead of going to him and trying to make things better. Day by day I intend to regain my strength n happiness but I want to learn how to do it w him

  67.  #67cookie on August 1, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Because whether we continue or not I want to know how to put me first as a wife n a mother. I don’t want to lose me ever again. Tinque, yes, I would love to hear more of your story. Trust me I’ve been through hell with man.

  68.  #68Simply Shannon on August 1, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    I found out last night that A cheated on me and slept with his ex girlfriend last Saturday. I found this out AFTER I went to his daughter’s birthday party one day after he slept with her and met his entire family… AFTER he has driven us to the beach (4 hours) for a long weekend… AFTER we have spent all day together talking about the trips we’re going to take as a family… AFTER he’s said I love you over and over again all day… AFTER I brought up how hearing his ex girlfriend in his house last weekend didn’t feel good (and he told me it was nothing, and he would stop talking to her)… AFTER he takes me on this amazing boat ride in the marsh with a beautiful moon hitting perfect glassy water… AFTER I saw that he had a message on his iPhone from his ex girlfriend (had the phone in my hand since he was driving the boat)… AFTER I joked that I was going to text her to say hi (and he said what would you say)… AFTER I clicked on the message and noticed a comment he made to her saying “Did you cum?”… AFTER I said “I want to go home”… then he tells me the TRUTH. Are you F’ING kidding me??????? I can only be grateful that I had not slept with him since they slept together.

    I feel…

    This does not seem real. I feel completely powerless and like I’m spiraling down into the abyss. I can’t even cry. The tears won’t come up. I can’t face this pain because I’m afraid it will swallow me whole. My heart feels like it is on fire. Please help me. Please. I do NOT know what to do. I feel terrified and alone. My family and friends are lighting up my phone with calls of concern (they know I’ve come back early) but I don’t want to talk to them. I don’t even know what to say other than “he cheated. he’s gone. I’m alone. What’s new.”

    Please make this not real. Someone please make this NOT real. 🙁

  69.  #69Ann on August 1, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Shannon I’m so sorry. I wish I could make it not real for you but I can’t. I’m not Rori but what I’d do would be back off from him. Feel what you feel. Feel the anger and all the other feelings, write it out, scream it out, let everything out by yourself.

    Then decide what you want and set your boundaries. Is this a complete deal breaker for you? If so walk away and find yourself and comfort where you can. If it’s not then speak to him in your time and tell him exactly what you want and what will happen if this ever happens again.

    I hate for someone to tell me “I would do this…..” if they haven’t even remotely been through something similar because I feel I don’t know what I’d do in certain situations without ever being there. So I’d like to share a story with you.

    My husband and I used to go to bars. We’d been together about 4 years with 2 small children, 1 being a infant. We went out one night, with my mom and the guy she was dating. Close to closing time there was talk of a party at one woman’s house. We asked the guys were they going over there. They said no. My mom and I went on to her house, guys were supposed to follow.

    This was before we had cell phones. But about a hour later they hadn’t showed up. So I called that woman’s house to see if my hubby was there. She said no. So the next morning we went looking for them. Couldn’t find them. Finally, my mom said let’s go ask… they went to all the parties.

    So we went to this couples house. The man let us in, I ask him had he seen my hubby anywhere? He said no I said he wasn’t at the party he said I didn’t see him. At that time, his wife walked into the room, she said didn’t see who? I said my husband. She looked at him and said yes you did he was sitting in the chair right by the front door, you spoke to him. You should have seen the look on his face. I said thank you and walked outside.

    Asked the lady who’d brought us there to take me over there(we had no car). She didn’t want to she was scared of my hubby. My mom(they were friends) said take her he’s not going to say anything to you. So I rode that 5 miles with my anger.

    This was a duplex apartment, his aunt lived in one side(she was friends with the other women). Luckily for him and everyone there, he walked out of his aunts apartment by hisself. I won’t use all the language here I used there. But he’d LIED to me and I was PISSED OFF I let him have it. I was walking back to the vehicle, he reached for the door, I said where in the f@ck do you think you’re going you brought your ass over here you find your own way home. And I left.

    I went to my cousins for a bit. Then I came back to my mom’s. He came down there, I locked myself in the bathroom. I didn’t want to talk to him or even look at him. He jimmy the lock.

    That PO me more. So I said you want to talk well listen to this. That so called damn friend of yours(my mom’s bf) who took you over there who lied just like you did has been making passes at me and I’ve been turning him down.

    Now before I continue my belief is as long as I can handle a situation he doesn’t need to know everything. The same goes for him I don’t need to know everything a females says to him.

    Now to continue I told him, you lied to me you know I HATE BEING LIED TO OR ON. So if you want me you’ll NEVER speak to that women again.

    My mom’s bf told her my hubby went over there because they(hubby & woman) intented to sleep together. I asked my hubby did he sleep with her he said no. ? Now I have enough sense to know that could of been a lie but I had no proof it was. So we stayed together but he never went near that women again.

    So my advice would be Shannon take care of you first, let him know in NO uncertain terms you won’t put up with this shit. If this women isn’t his daughters mother then why does he need to see her?

    Hugs take care. Sorry this is so long ladies and guys:)

  70.  #70Ann on August 1, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Forgot to add at the time this happened I loved my husband deeply but I would of left his ass(and took the kids with me) if I’d found out for sure he’d lied to me & slept with her.

  71.  #71Bethany on August 1, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    Oh, wow. I want to give you a hug. I feel your anger. I feel awkward saying anything because I don’t know your whole situation. I feel awkward saying this, but it seems to me that you are resisting all these feelings. I know that for me no matter what, no matter the situation, the pain pops like soap bubbles if I really let myself feel whatever is going on. Feeling them and writing them here has helped me immensely. If you write more here on this blog, I’ll be reading it and supporting you.

  72.  #72Sunshine on August 1, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    I usually trust a man until I find out there is a reason not to trust him. Somewhere in my inner most being I know he is untrust worthy before I find out. Therefore, I usually wait until I am ready to deal with what I am thinking… he is an untrustworthy man. When I am able to confirm that he is untrustworthy. I am severly hurt. Can’t function and to function it takes every ounce of will and effort on my part to struggle and see that I continue on with my life. I do not deal with lie very well so when I find out that I have been lied to and usually it isn’t just one lie it is lies coupled with lots of dishonesty. (Remember I said that I usually wait until I am ready to deal with the fact that I believe he is untrustworthy.) No matter how much I think I love him the realationhip for me is over and cannot be repair.

    Sometimes the man will ask for forgiveness and want to restore the realtionship promising things will be different. But by this time I have emotionally gone through so much emotionally that my heart won’t allow me to take another chance no matter how sincere the man is.

    Therefore, now, I believe that the best course of action is to be honest about what you are thinking and to confront it right away to save myself undo grief and heartache. I cannot be with a man who lies. No matter how much I love him and that hurts.

  73.  #73Simply Shannon on August 1, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Thank you Ann and Bethany. We’ve only been dating for three months. He is the first man I’ve ever dated that I admired and respected. He cared for me in ways I never even knew I needed. I don’t understand. He says he loves me. Saying last night after he tells me all this that he only wants me.

    I can’t cry. The tears just won’t come. My heart is broken in a million tiny pieces. I want to call him. Hearing his voice might bring the tears. I do not feel strong. My heart is burning. I feel sick.

  74.  #74Simply Shannon on August 1, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Thank you Sunshine. We left the beach when we woke up this morning. We didn’t speak the whole way home. I got out of the car, got my stuff inside, gave him a present back that he recently gave to me (I don’t need the memory) and said goodbye. And now I sit here not wanting to believe I will never speak to him again.

  75.  #75Ann on August 1, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Shannon I’m so sorry. Maybe if you listen to some sad songs it will help the tears that need to come out flow. You are the only one who can decide if this is a dealbreaker for you. If it isn’t I would suggest you let him know what would happen if it happened again. To thine own self be true. Hugs

  76.  #76Mercedes on August 1, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Shannon: I don’t know the words but I can tell you I’ve been there and I know how incredibly painful it is. I know about the shock and anger and everything else. I’m so sorry.

    Much Love,

  77.  #77tinque on August 1, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Shannon – I too am so very sorry. I have not experienced such a thing, so I cannot really feel what you feel, but my imagination is very active and heightened, so I can imagine it, and this would be a pain of unbearable depths. What I went through felt like this to me, but since it really wasn’t, it couldn’t have felt the same.
    For me this is this the ultimate betrayal and an absolute deal breaker, yet I have a dear friend on this blog who went through this, survived, took him back, and they are very, very happy.
    You were only together for three months. This is such a short time. It takes two to three years to really get to know someone. You say he gave you things, and I don’t mean material things, you didn’t even know you needed, and this felt soooo god. Some men and women too in all fairness are really, really good at that, sensing what would “win” someone over, and really really good with the words, but words are meaningless, simply puffs of air if the actions, the real actions are not there, and I don’t mean pretty gestures.
    My heart goes out to you.

  78.  #78tinque on August 1, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    cookie – Manic depressives are difficult at best. My ex was an undiagnosed manic depressive. His mother who was not his biological mother was a diagnosed one. She took meds, but still she was “nuts”. Mood swings, from the highs to the pits, and periodically she would completely lose it, lose all sense of reality I mean. Three times while I was still around she was found wandering the streets in her nightgown not knowing much of anything. When she was in a depressive state, even when on her meds, she would hole up and not leave the house, not bathe, smoke cigarettes, and watch TV all day and night. There’s more, but you get the idea.
    My ex was an angry man. At best he was on a high, bopping around, everything glowing, but it was a kind of nervous, impossible to connect to energy. When he was down which was most of the time he too sat in the house, TV on all day and night, playing on the computer, smoking cigarettes and weed, angry at everything and everybody, blaming everything and everybody but himself for his woes as if the universe thought him so important as to single him out and punish him. He never hit me, but he was always angry and emotionally abusive, and he was so good with words and speech that he made me feel things were my fault.
    I don’t want to sound harsh, but do you really love him, or are you in love with a fantasy of him?
    I was in the beginning, but quickly I knew something was not right, yet I hung in there, believing his pleas that things would change, that he would get help, or he would frighten me and threaten me. He had a gun, and guns are very scary. I stayed for so long, way to long, embarrassingly so, out of my fears, fear that I couldn’t make it on my own, that no one would or could ever love me, for this man told he me he loved me all the time though there were never any actions to back up the pretty rhetoric. I had so little self-esteem and self-love I was convinced I was unlovable.
    When I finally did leave, I was fixed up with my K two weeks later on a blind date, someone it turned out I had known ten years prior, someone to whom I was attracted to back then and he me, but neither one of us crossed those lines into infidelity, so we didn’t hook up, but then again we were not ready for each other.
    So all of this is to tell you that I’m afraid for you and your psyche. This kind of person will destroy you. It seems as though he already is.
    I really don’t want to hurt you with this information, but…you need to know. I also don’t want you as broken as I was twelve years later.

  79.  #79Simply Shannon on August 1, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Thank you Mercedes and Tinque.

    I feel ridiculous… I want to defend him, to make him sound like he’s not a bad guy. WTF am I doing?

    I just texted him a little while ago saying “I feel so heartbroken and confused. Why A? This isn’t real. Please tell me this isn’t real.”
    His reply: “I don’t know why it happened. I am sooooo SORRY. I never meant to hurt you. Everything good in my life I end up hurting.”
    My next (and last) text: “I feel empty. I don’t want you to be gone. I don’t want to miss you but I do.”
    His reply: “I feel empty too! God I can not tell you how bad I feel for putting you thru this. I’m sorry.”

    No “I want you back.” or “can we talk?” or “can you forgive me?” 🙁

    I feel so STUPID and so WEAK. I feel like I’m groveling and he’s the one who slept with someone!!! I want the anger to come up. I need the anger to take away some of this pain. I can deal with anger. I can’t deal with this.

    Night all. I’m going to sleep. Maybe after some sleep, I’ll finally be able to cry. (I didn’t sleep at all last night.)


  80.  #80Robin on August 1, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Simply Shannon, I am so sorry, my heart really goes out to you…we are all here for you. Take care of yourself, the whole 9 yards, pampering, whatever makes you feel good about yourself, even circular dating, if you can..

    I am so sorry, and you will be in my thoughts and prayers. I really wish I could give you a big hug 🙂

    Daria, I have been wondering the same things, and what Ive done is just listen at level 2 (and I read here about level 3 also) and really listen to what hes saying, and lean back..

    Actually, if this was a guy I used to be involved with and now have to deal with for another reason, as I think you mentioned earlier ( and also like my ex at the church) I really wouldnt want to listen to things about his personal life (because Im not interested in being his friend, b/c it doesnt feel good)

    Or maybe thats being a cactus and not being (or staying open) to him?????

    I dont know…

    Ive done this in the past with my ex, but only about women, if he brought up a girl, I would say ‘I dont want to talk about so-and-so, I dont feel comfortable talking about women with you, it doesnt feel good to me (or something very similar)

    After 2 times, he just stopped trying…but if he mentions something about his life, and it started to feel weird, b/c of past memories, or feelings bubbling up, yes I guess I would bring them up, I would actually say something along the lines of ‘you know, I feel so glad that you want to share this news with me, but it feels really weird talking about this, it doesnt feel good to hear about this, I feel sad hearing about this…”

    I dont know, maybe thats just stuffing down your feelings…and of course, hes gonna go ‘why not?’ I feel confused…

  81.  #81alias girl on August 1, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    i blurted out

    i love you

    to my ex once when i was trying to make a point about something completely else. we had never really said that to each other and it’s not appropriate and i am actually trying to get this guy out of my mind. he is not available. i don’t want to get with him and though i feel love for him i had no intention of saying i love you to him.

    i feel a lot of guilt and confusion. i didn’t mean to say. i don’t mean to love him. and i mean to move on. anyway i just continued on in the conversation with the point i was trying to make.

    and he was like wait wait what?

    i don’t even remember what i said. i just acted like it was some non point to the point i had been trying to make. i didn’t mean or intend to say it. i don’t even think like that well i guess that’s not true.

    i don’t know. i feel queasy.

    i feel weird. i feel ashamed of myself since this whole thing at work happened. i feel lost and saddened and sngry and spiteful and relieved and grateful then i cycle through again. lost sad frightened angry livid apathetic angry apathetic weak scared joyful hopeful relieved sad.

    i feel bad that i am so desparate for love and self esteem that i wanted everyone at work to be my friend and then when they weren’t i felt angry. i feel bad that i am so lonely. i feel embarrassed. please don’t anyone tell me to go make friends ok or i will have to punch you in the nose. i am doing my best and people weird me out sometimes and i feel awkward and people feel like animals and i feel like i am just trying to survive and making friends is so secondary to survival.

    i feel so thrown into th unknown in so many areas of my life. i feel good i just cried because i feel like i have felt drained all day and frozen because of my feelings and fears. i went for a long hike though and that felt good. i don’t feel very godessey. i feel very misfittey. misfit-ey. miss fiddy. hehe i feel like i just had a private joke between me and me. how rude.

  82.  #82alias girl on August 1, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    simply shannon i feel supportive. i don’t know what else to say. i would try and stay with what i am feeling. if it’s numb tthen ok i love my numbness. maybe riffing always help me move past the numbness into what’s underneath. i would also try my hardest to circular date. sometimes two people/couples can move past something like this and sometimes people can’t. it depends on so many things. but in this moment i would focus on me and what i felt would best take care of me. maybe a bubble bath. hot tea. journalling. touching things and trees and saying thank you. fall to your knees. or if i remember i just sometimes repaet the word LOVE to myself and i Always helps me feel better while i am doing it.

  83.  #83alias girl on August 1, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    i jumped over to terrence’s blog and in his recent post he encouraged men to try posting on rori’s blog but he warned them we can be a tough crowd for a man. hehe. i felt amused. and then i felt bad. i felt good to read terrance’s post though because i so easily forget that men get sweaty palms and shakey knees when trying to find love (or affection or sex or whatever)

    i feel good that i get a lttile nervous around certain men. just a little though. i don’t want to be with a man i feel too nervous around because then i will probably hide my authentic self. but a touch of nervousness feels good. makes me want to put on a nice dress and all. 🙂

  84.  #84Sunshine on August 1, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Simply Shannon, for me anger, is good because it seems to motivate me to do what’s best for myself. I have never walked away from a relationship where I never heard from the man again.

    Knowing that I will eventually hear from the man again. I go to an extreme in examining myself, focusing on me, giving myself time and space away from the realationship while becoming a part of everything that is productive and healthy, which causes me to continue to grow and learn from my experience.

    By the time I hear from him again… I’ve changed for the better and have a healthier sense of self and usually someone along the way while I am in this extreme mode finds me and I am happier and healthier.

    I know that it hurts like hell. But hurt always teaches us if we listen and stay alert to the lesson we are meant to learn and propels us to our divine destiny. The first steps are always the hardest.

    There have been a few times that I have said, “I Never Want To See or Hear From You Again…” and hang up as soon as I hear the voice… It is a rare occassion, if you were truly loving, will you experience never hearing from the person again. But if that happens? Just maybe. That person was not the person who is part of your divine purpose.

    Although, sometimes counseling can be an answer in a relationship that is worth saving. However, the question is… Is this relationship worth saving and only you can decide that. I wish you much love… the kind you deserve and who knows…? who will be found worthy of your love.

  85.  #85K on August 2, 2009 at 8:51 am

    Shannon: Sometimes the best thing for yourself is to do nothing and just ‘do’ what you are doing….your numbness can also be shock–totally understandable!!! Choosing to not react or act is making a choice and sometimes that IS the best choice for you. None of us can tell you what to do or feel or be….many of us have been there before but everyone’s situation is different. It seems to me that Rori and ‘our’ new belief system (that every one of us is learning to incorporate into her psyche) is 100% about being 100% for and in tune with yourself!! Period! Feel our love and compasion and support and sadness and empathy for you….let that shelter you while you come out of the shock!! Know that our support will be there for you when you feel angry or sad or scared or forgiving…we are here for you in a completely non judgmental way to LISTEN actively to you, and we can all grow from each other as we stubble along this thing called growth!!

  86.  #86K on August 2, 2009 at 9:03 am

    I have another question that I am feeling extreme conflict with…

    How do you differentiate between boundaries and BIG GIGANTIC BRICK WALLS THAT KEEP PEOPLE FAR AWAY??? I am so afraid of getting hurt that I let no one close to me (this goes for female friends as well–I only have a few and one is my sister!!!). I have been repeating over and over Trust Your Boundaries and Be Surprised together, so I can learn to be surprised when I trust my boundaries 🙂

    The man that I tried the leaning back with at the theater’s mom is very sick; last stages of breast cancer. He did spend some time helping his dad care for her, but he’s recently moved into a place a bit farther away to explore his own boundaries and needs. I know he needs to work on that, who wouldn’t, right??? So, we see each other occasionally, but I am working on myself and ‘it is what it is’—I’m not waiting on or for him, and we have a great time when we can.

    He recently posted to all of us( a group of us from high school get together occasionally and all stay in touch via FB) that his mom has taken a turn for the worse!!! Where is that boundary line drawn about showing care and support in this difficult time. I would like to call him and just say ‘anything you need, a toothbrush, lunch, a hug…let me know’ but I feel that is leaning forward, and I haven’t because he hasn’t reached out to me personally. However, I am feeling insensitive and mean by not extending ‘friendship’ in this situation…I can only imagine him and his family at the hospital, and Ifeel such heartbreak and sadness…any thoughts ladies?

  87.  #87Bethany on August 2, 2009 at 9:06 am


    Not to be a little chirping advertisement, but do you have any of Rori’s programs? Imagining myself in your position, I would listen to Modern Siren and Targeting Mr. Right nonstop; just hearing the info can give you new perspective and help you visualize all the guys out there who are just as exciting as this “A” guy but don’t do shit like this.

    Also, amen to everyone’s anger comments…anger feels way way way better than feeling devastated. I keep a bunch of rocks everywhere in my apartment and car and when I start to feel bad or when I talk to Christopher on the phone I keep one in my hand and often it helps me to feel grounded and connect to my anger, and it feels like protection, like all of a sudden the quivering weak mousey stuff shifts and I’m more on my side. It feels good. And rocks are cheap.:)

  88.  #88Daria on August 2, 2009 at 10:37 am

    My question is when talking to a man I feel very in love with on the phone when we are not in a relationship. He calls me, to take care of some business stuff. I feel good talking to him and even talking to him about our lives. I also have thoughts that feel sad, about how I would like to be with him but am not.

    Do I say (bringing the topic out of nowhere)… It feels good to hear from you and hear about your life, and I feel so awkward talking to you, it makes me think about the past and being close to you and I feel sad, I feel powerless and icky.

    Or do I just listen at level 3 and lean back, sharing only the feelings not about him or a relationship until he brings up something in this line of conversation?

    Part of me says rock the boat with option 1, part of me says lean back with option 2 and wait for him to bring up romance. But I am so unused to sharing my feelings with him, that maybe option 1 would change that.

    Robin thanks for answering some of the q and I want help in answering the specific q above, not about telling him I dont want to hear this or that, but rather:

    do I bring up how i feel when it’s regarding him, the past with us, or do I let him bring it up?

  89.  #89Simply Shannon on August 2, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Thanks to all of you. I truly am grateful. I got some sleep last night which helped (thank you Ambien). About 5:30am I woke up and of course couldn’t go back to sleep. No texts or calls from him. I began to think that all my texts the night before only served to show him my hurt and to make him feel bad. Not that they weren’t true feelings but I started to feel regret for the words I chose. So I texted him once more saying:

    “I love you but i hate what u did. i couldnt talk to u yesterday. i felt too angry but now i feel empty and just need to hear ur voice. i need to talk to u. do u still want me or was this ur way of ending it? do u want her or was it really a moment of weakness? i feel so confused. i dont know if i can forgive u or what this means for us. can u come over? do u want to try? maybe im just avoiding this pain. i dont know. what do u think?”

    His reply:

    “I love you too!! I do want you! More than you can imagine! It truly was a moment of weakness and one of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever made! Im so sorry! I have the kids now. I would love talk to you today sometime. Me and my dad are installing my sink right now. Can I call you later?”

    I texted him that I’ll have my kids later and he could come over sometime but I didn’t want to talk on the phone. Told him to text me later and he said ok.

    My feelings are all over the place and yet hidden. I feel stunned and upset. I also feel anger peaking at me around the corner. For the most part though I still feel numb. When/ if he comes over, I’m just going to lean back and listen. I don’t even know right now what I hope to accomplish by talking to him. I don’t know if it will help me but for now I can breath again. And if that’s what it takes for just this second, I feel okay with that.

    I’m going to listen and feel and then try to figure out what I want. I already know that no matter what he says about wanting me back, we are no longer “exclusive”, and I won’t be sleeping with anyone (including him – not for awhile…at a minimum until he’s earned back my trust).

  90.  #90alias girl on August 2, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    i feel so much better. i feel like my past is behind me. i feel hopeful and excited again.

    last night i just started responding to (almost) all of the men in my inbox on my dating site. i am not going to pay too much attention to their profiles or even their looks. i feel ready to circular date. woo hoo. dates finally for alias girl! yeah!

    i feel very hopeful. whenever my mind wants to go back to the past i say no. we are done with that. i needed to mull it over fiftythousand times but now i am done. i have learned. i am moving on.


    back to eating well
    and dating myself
    and exercising regularly
    and getting back into my new hpbby
    and dating
    and dressing cute
    and starting a blog
    and having a great source of income
    and doing things that fulfull me
    and buying a condo
    and taking vacations
    and having good sex with ?? some hot man (men?)

    i feel the NOW is good. the past is over. the NOW is good.

  91.  #91Rori Raye on August 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Is this on Facebook that he’s posted? If so, reply to him there…”so sorry…..” a genuine sorrow statement… And…the difference is – boundaries are on the inside, walls are on the outside. Visualize it that way and see if it helps…Rori

  92.  #92Terrance Thames on August 2, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    S. Shannon-

    I am sorry to hear about what happened. I don’t even really know what to say. 🙁 I feel that everybody else covered it here but I wanted to reach out to you myself to let you know that you are on my mind and I hope things work out for you 🙂

  93.  #93Simply Shannon on August 3, 2009 at 8:53 am

    Thank you for the kind words and thoughts. I feel better today, not great, but better. My heart still feels tight but it doesn’t feel burning like it did over the weekend. My belly feels burning but that’s probably because I don’t feel like eating.

    I feel curious how I figure out the lesson/message from all this. A is a good man. I’ve never admired a man I’ve dated before, not until him. I respected him. I trusted him. So what lesson is there for me to learn when someone like that cheats on me? That any man can cheat? Ok, duh. I really would like to learn the lesson. It would somehow make this easier to bear…to know that I’m getting something out of it other than a broken heart.

    I know I’m not suppose to focus on him but I think I figured out something that may have been going on with him. His ex wife cheated on him. Since meeting her last weekend, I noticed we are a lot alike. I wonder if he cheated on me as a subconscious way of getting back at her. I dunno. Just something that crossed my mind when I was trying to figure out why a man who knows what it’s like to be cheated on would then turn around and cheat on someone. Boggles my mind.

    A texted me last night that he couldn’t come over because his son was sick. I said I was sorry he was sick. He texted me again asking how was my day. I didn’t reply. His next text said “call me or text me if you want. I’ll quit bothering you. Good nite.” I haven’t replied. I feel angry that he wants ME to text him. WTF? I feel rage. I want a man who would move heaven and earth to be with me. I don’t want someone who is willing to just let me go without even trying. I feel resistance to believe that this is his way of walking away. I feel amused and angry at myself for even saying that… him sleeping with another woman was him walking away. I forgive myself for not knowing. I forgive myself for trusting him. No. I feel glad that I’m still able to trust even after all of my past experiences. I feel hopeful that I can learn from my past and move on rather than relive the same experience over and over again.

    As for me, I’ve got my profile back up on a few dating sites. I’m ripping off the bandaid and just putting myself out there. ~SS

  94.  #94Simply Shannon on August 3, 2009 at 9:01 am

    Thank you for the kind words and thoughts. I feel better today, not great, but better. My heart still feels tight but it doesn’t feel burning like it did over the weekend. My belly feels burning but that’s probably because I don’t feel like eating.

    I feel curious how I figure out the lesson/message from all this. A is a good man. I’ve never admired a man I’ve dated before, not until him. I respected him. I trusted him. So what lesson is there for me to learn when someone like that cheats on me? That any man can cheat? Ok, duh. I really would like to learn the lesson. It would somehow make this easier to bear…to know that I’m getting something out of it other than a broken heart.

    I know I’m not suppose to focus on him but I think I figured out something that may have been going on with him. His ex wife cheated on him. Since meeting her last weekend, I noticed we are a lot alike. I wonder if he cheated on me as a subconscious way of getting back at her. I dunno. Just something that crossed my mind when I was trying to figure out why a man who knows what it’s like to be cheated on would then turn around and cheat on someone. Boggles my mind.

    A texted me last night that he couldn’t come over because his son was sick. I said I was sorry he was sick. He texted me again asking how was my day. I didn’t reply. His next text said “call me or text me if you want. I’ll quit bothering you. Good nite.” I haven’t replied. I feel angry that he wants ME to text him. WTF? I feel rage. I want a man who would move heaven and earth to be with me. I don’t want someone who is willing to just let me go without even trying. I feel resistance to believe that this is his way of walking away. I feel amused and angry at myself for even saying that… him sleeping with another woman was him walking away. I forgive myself for not knowing. I forgive myself for trusting him. No. I feel glad that I’m still able to trust even after all of my past experiences. I feel hopeful that I can learn from my past and move on rather than relive the same experience over and over again.

    As for me, I’ve got my profile back up on a few dating sites. I’m ripping off the bandaid and just putting myself out there. ~SS

  95.  #95Ellen on August 3, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    A thought that has helped me many times… “A rock is a rock. It cannot be a butterfly. It just is…a rock. Why would I be upset with a rock for not being a butterfly?”


    He just is what he is. No more, no less. Nothing about you. It just hurts when you see that the butterfly you were admiring is really just a rock. But it doesn’t have to be horrible. It just is.

    S. Shannon- you deserve a butterfly.


  96.  #96Karen on August 3, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    S Shannon, I feel your pain as well. A man I was more in love with that anyone else I’ve ever met actually came to my home and bragged to me about nailing some b**** in the front seat of his car, like I was supposed to pat him on the back or congratulate him!!! I broke up with him and he came back with apologies until I finally got back with him. We’ve been together more than eight years and, even though we’ve been through a lot of rough times because of his f***-up, he hasn’t cheated on me again. I know I would have felt it if he had. There is hope, but “A” has to man up and be worthy of a goddess first. You have to come first in your life (after your kids), no matter what.

  97.  #97Simply Shannon on August 4, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Ellen: I loved reading that. Thank you for sharing. I do deserve a butterfly.

    Karen: Thank you. I don’t know if A is going to man up. Right now I’ve cracked open the door, but we’ll see how long that lasts. I feel heartbroken when I think about him, and I don’t like feeling that way. I’m getting back out there again and circular dating. It helps to take my focus off of him. Time will tell. I’m working really hard at getting a date on Friday. Online profiles up in three places. This sista ain’t sitting at home in mourning! 🙂 I feel good knowing I can move on even when my heart feels heavy.

  98.  #98Julia on August 16, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Hi, Rori,

    I’ve been receiving your Email updates for a couple of months, now, and just found this website.
    I’m in a rather unique situation (tell me you haven’t heard this one before!).
    I’m dating an older man who is nearly 20 years my senior; I’m 58, and he’ll be 78 later this year.
    We were dating for awhile, and then he broke up with me because he said, “We’re not right for each other”; “you’re too young”, “we live too far apart”, “we are too busy”. ???
    I was very upset, and left him alone for awhile, totally avoided seeing, talking to, calling him at all. Then, a guy friend of mine suggested that I call him to straighten out some misunderstandings between us, and I did.
    He was delighted to have these things straightened out, and had told me that he was married for 3 days, and she came to him, said, “I’m sick and don’t want to be married”, and left. He got a divorce and never look back; I think that left a very big mark on him, relationship-wise.
    He told me about another woman he didn’t marry, because she couldn’t leave her job to go live with him in his state (he was in her state for his job), and he couldn’t leave his job to live with her in her state, so they parted company. He said she still calls him to tell him how sorry she is, and she married someone else, who treats her bad. I think she probably calls him when she and her hubby have a fight, and she needs some sympathy.
    I’m told by someone who knows us both (from Sunday School, where we met) that he is commitment-phobic, and I believe this is true.
    I have fallen in love with him, and didn’t expect this to happen; that’s why it hurt so much when we broke up.
    When I called him to straighten things out, I said, “remember how you said there were differences between you and your wife, that you thought could be worked out?” He said yes, he remembered; I told him that that’s what relationships are all about, and did he want to give us another chance? He said, “Well, it couldn’t hurt”.
    Now he’s acting all distant, and I don’t know what’s going on, but last week, when I saw and talked with him, he said that I scare him. When I Emailed him to ask him why, he didn’t answer me. I didn’t think to ask him that when I was with him, but did kinda joke about it; I told him I wouldn’t bite him more than once, lol! We both laughed about it, and I thought that might make it ok, but he was acting very distant, in Sunday School, today, and so I left him alone. The last time he acted that way was the day we broke up, because I asked him, “Am I taking you out of your comfort zone?”
    I didn’t want him to have an excuse to break up with me again, so now I don’t know what to do. Can you help???


  99.  #99Julia on August 16, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Hi, Rori,

    I’m dating an older guy (20 years older), and he acted distant before, and broke up with me.
    Now he’s acting distant again, and I don’t know what to do. He said I scare him, and I left him alone, today, because the last time he acted this way was the day he broke up with me, and I didn’t want that to happen again. Can you help???



  100.  #100Rori Raye on August 17, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Welcome Julia – if a man is acting “distant” – you must step away and focus on you and your own life – including flirting and chatting with every man you meet. Love, Rori