What Are Boundaries?

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030-220Here’s a hot discussion on Boundaries with Mercedes:

Here’s the first piece of the conversation from Mercedes:

“My boundaries all feel big to me…that’s why they are boundaries. Some of the stuff you mention are just ways a man would be if I were to stay long enough for our relationship to grow (like treating me well and problem solving together, etc).

For me, boundaries are things that he knows could never happen or he would lose me. Some of the stuff has happened in the past and when we got back together, they became boundaries. Other things are just things I can’t have in my life but that he’s always known about.

Examples: He can’t cheat on me or do things that would make me mistrust him from a relationship standpoint. We went through this stuff before and I can’t deal with it again. This one came out of a real place of anger and it is firm. I won’t last another five minutes in a relationship where there is another woman involved, even as a friend if she’s not a friend of both of ours.

No illegal drugs at all. Nothing. I’ve worked too hard in my career to ever risk it and I have children who I set an example for. I have zero patience or tolerance for it in our lives.

No violence is a boundary but not one I’ve ever communicated to him because there’s never been a need. He’s not a violent man at all.

Other things that I’ve told him in the past but I can’t remember right now because it’s been so many years since we’ve even discussed anything like boundaries. At one time, I had to work with him through what I can and cannot handle and we had many discussions around it. We were apart and he was trying to win me back and I, for me, had to make it clear what I could and couldn’t be a part of. Now, we just sort of “flow” and boundaries are still boundaries but they’re also just part of who we are. So much a part that I can’t even remember what it is that was so important I felt I had to tell him about it.

Two words come to mind where my boundaries are concerned “trust” and “respect”. If we always treat each other respectfully and if we can always trust the other one, I believe we’ll be fine. Most of my boundaries fall into one of those two categories anyway. 🙂

Much Love, Mercedes”

 Then I wrote:

Mercedes – this is an interesting discussion about “boundaries” – and I see them, or that word – meaning something completely different.

To me, what you’re talking about are “requirements.”

I require this to be here with you.

I require that this NOT be happening in order for me to be with you.

Boundaries, then, to me, are the foundation of that requirement.

I do NOT need to go out and change you, or even be angry with you for making me rethink whether I can be here or not. I simply sit with my rock, my tree, my groundedness, my inner strength, my love for myself and for you – and I trust my ability (my boundary) to know that I’m okay no matter what, and that I get to CHOOSE where I am at any given moment.

I guess it’s just semantics, and yet, I have to be as clear as possible if I’m going to teach it. I realize Boundary actually denotes a kind of “de-markation line” that causes consequences when it is crossed.

So, I don’t necessarily want to create a new definition of the word (although that’s sort of what I’m doing here – because I don’t like the concept of “de-markation” and “separateness”) – I want to change the definition that MOST women give it.

What most women consider to be boundaries are actually walls we put up between us and another person – false lines of de-markation.

I prefer the idea that when I start feeling NOT peaceful, I’ve lost sight of my inner boundaries.

The “inner country” where I am myself.

Love, Rori

And then Mercedes went further with this:

“I’ve been thinking about a lot (and working with lots of women on) so I have a lot to say about how to set boundaries, how important they are and why it is so necessary to communicate them. I could go on and on and on but this is probably enough. Take what you like and disregard the rest.

Setting personal boundaries:
Personal boundaries are critical in maintaining your own identity. They keep you from becoming someone else by doing, being and saying what they need instead of what you need.

If at first others resist them, have no fear. The stronger your boundaries are, the sooner you will be attracting people into your life who are healthy themselves (ie have their own boundaries) and who respect yours. Without boundaries or with weak boundaries, you will instead attract people who will use, manipulate or require too much of you.

People who can’t handle the fact that you are strong will disappear from your life…and this is okay…good even. Remember, boundaries are not “nice to haves”, boundaries are necessary to keep you balanced, to keep yourself healthy and to keep others from manipulating or using you.

Hold on to your boundaries…keep them close to your heart…believe in them. Even when others tell you they are wrong or too harsh or whatever, stay strong. People WILL disagree with your boundaries but that doesn’t matter. They are personal boundaries. And even though you make them public in a sense, doesn’t mean they aren’t personal. They are yours and as long as you mean them from your heart, you stand up for them and you enforce them, they are right.

Believe that boundaries are good and necessary for a healthy life. If you feel guilty for having them or if you believe they are selfish or unreasonable, they won’t be strong and they won’t “work”. The first person who has to believe in your personal boundaries is YOU.

To define your boundaries, think about this:

  • How are you letting others use, manipulate or behave in an unhealthy way around you?

Knowing what others are doing or saying in your presence is a key to knowing what you will or will no longer put up with in your life and from the people surrounding you. There is nothing wrong with saying “No more”. There is nothing at all wrong with choosing a healthy, happy and fulfilled YOU.

  • Write these examples down.

Take your time and really go deep with this. Where are you already allowing others to change what you would do or compromise your happiness or your integrity. When you look at these situations and you really sink into how you feel when this stuff happens, you will begin to get clear.

  • Then, imaging how it would feel to NOT be in those situations.

How does it feel when you are removed from times in your life when you are being used? How much better would it feel to be relieved of these instances? When you know this, you are on your way to really seeing and identifying what your boundaries really need to be.

Once you have spent some time thinking about your life, what you are getting and what you need and you’ve identified your personal boundaries, in my experience, it is really, really important to:

  • Communicate those boundaries to the people in your life.

Communicating boundaries can be extremely difficult but if others don’t know where they stand then they can’t be blamed for crossing boundaries. Let them know kindly and lovingly that you have thought long and hard about your new mind shift and your boundaries and let them know in a loving and non-blaming way what you need moving forward.

Be prepared though, if your boundaries are solid, you may have to practicing some walking away from people you love. If some people fall out of your life because of your new boundaries, believe in your heart that this was for the best. Those are people you don’t want in your life anyway (as hard as that might feel in the beginning). Trust me you will soon be attracting the right people into your life. Loving, respectful, amazing people who love you FOR your boundaries, NOT in spite of them.

  • If you want other people to respect your boundaries, be sure you are the kind of person who respects the boundaries of others.

Asking someone to respect your own needs requires YOU to be the kind of person who also respects the needs of others….even if you disagree with them.

Boundaries are not an “every now and then when I feel fed up” kind of thing. The more consistent you are, the more you communicate these things, the more you walk away from situations that cross those lines, the stronger you stand, the more people will learn to respect them (and respect YOU for having them) and the less inclined they will be to continue to cross those lines.

  • And my last point: Boundaries are for EVERYONE in your life.

They apply to significant others, to your parents and children, friends and siblings, even coworkers. If you want to be taken seriously for what you need to balance your body, mind and soul, for what you need to remain safe and healthy and for what you need to be a happy healthy human being, you will need to enforce your boundaries with all of the people in your life.

  • You deserve this.

You are not being mean, selfish or unloving. You are creating a stronger, happier, healthier, more balanced you so that you can face the world in a strong, loving, giving, positive manner. When others can no longer bring you down or make you unhappy or use and manipulate you, you become someone the good people of the world want to connect with.

I promise, you will begin to see more love, respect and kindness than you ever dreamed possible. Yes…even by saying “no” to people you love, you will attract more love…real love.

Much Love, Mercedes”

From Rori:

This is such a great discussion – please weigh in!

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1April Rose on June 19, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    ” There is nothing wrong with saying “No more”. There is nothing at all wrong with choosing a healthy, happy and fulfilled YOU.”

  2.  #2April Rose on June 19, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    “You are not being mean, selfish or unloving. You are creating a stronger, happier, healthier, more balanced you so that you can face the world in a strong, loving, giving, positive manner. ”

    I love this.
    And I trust myself on knowing what feels right and good for me, in my life.

  3.  #3April Rose on June 19, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    “Trust me you will soon be attracting the right people into your life. Loving, respectful, amazing people who love you FOR your boundaries, NOT in spite of them.”

    I’m finding that the more I strengthen my boundaries – e.g. I don’t want to talk about work during my leisure time – the more I feel his respect and interest.

  4.  #4Femininewoman on June 19, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    I just shared one with a guy by saying “I don’t take calls after 10 p.m.”.

  5.  #5Elsie on June 19, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Love this. Love Mercedes. All this rocks.

    Wish I felt better today – I feel disconnected from him. I feel unattached to him. I feel anxious when I will see him alone again. I feel needy.

  6.  #6Olivia on June 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    To share an example, the main boundary in my life is that I don’t talk to my brother anymore.

    He attacked me and intimidated and ridiculed me a lot as a child, and as adults, the last time I saw him he came at my physically like he was going to attack me and also threatened to throw me out of a car…

    So I don’t make contact with him, and won’t until he starts getting treatment for his mental health problems.

    Believe it or not, people don’t always respect this boundary since he has never actually seriously physically harmed me. It triggers me when I have to explain why he’s not in my life -but I’m getting better at that part!

  7.  #7Zia on June 19, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    GREAT post!!! For the first time in my life I am setting boundaries, because I know that not having them is the reason I lost myself in my last relationships.

  8.  #8Femininewoman on June 19, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Olivia – first read I felt tightened up like thinking this is a wall not a boundary. Then I felt softened up at the suggestion of physical harm.

  9.  #9Mercedes on June 19, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Rori: Would you have an example of what a boundary is to you outside of a requirement?

    I agree with not staying in a situation that doesn’t feel good and having the right to be where you want to be at that time…that’s exactly how I feel about them too. But what, in your eyes, is the difference between someone not respecting a boundary (where you have the right to remove yourself from the situation) vs not respecting a requirement you have (where I believe you also have the right to remove yourself from the situation)?

    Much Love,

  10.  #10Zara on June 19, 2013 at 4:28 pm


  11.  #11Zara on June 19, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    trying to post a link but failing at it tonight. May be if I deactivate the link, it will be posted… Let’s see. Copy paste the adress in the browser. It is a video about walls and boundaries.


  12.  #12Zara on June 19, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Trying to post a link to a video made by Rori about walls and boundaries but it is not working on my side tonight. The posts with links vanish.

    The video is to be found in the category love life , under the title “Love advice- boundaries and walls with men”. Or by clicking on “July 2011”, in the archives list on the right end side of this page.


  13.  #13Dominique on June 19, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Mercedes – Since we’ve had this discussion before, you already know that I don’t completely disagree, yet I mostly do.

    For anyone interested –

    Here is the article I wrote last year I think after Miss M had had had this same discussion.


  14.  #14Zia on June 19, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Dominique – my issue with not having boundaries is that I always end up giving too much of myself to the other person, putting their needs and wants ahead of myself. I only have a few boundaries right now, to allow me to keep my sense of ME, and I feel they’re important for me to have going into dating, and a new relationship. The past few relationships I found myself trying to back track after I started losing myself, but I had no set guideline or idea about where to back track TO.

    They’re certainly not about whether he is messy, or late, or things that he needs to for me to change him… just about my needs (me-time, my meditation time, deciding not to sleep with someone unless we’re exclusive, stuff like that)

  15.  #15Dominique on June 19, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    I completely understand Zia, and I have done the same, YET I discovered that the more I worked on myself, filled myself up in ALL ways, physically, emotionally, and spiritually, the people with whom I maybe needed to have some boundaries set fall by the wayside. And the ones who came in to take their place, no boundaries were necessary. It all just was. No discussion needed.

    And like I say in the article, if something comes up which is worth bringing up to you, expressing this as you know how, making it about you and how you feel, whatever it was will not likely occur again. This person will feel very badly for having hurt you or making you feel uncomfortable or whatever it was though chances are very high that it was unintentional.

    And for the situations you cite, and this could be semantics, as Rori suggested in this post, I don’t see this so much as boundaries but as again expressing your feelings, what you want and don’t want, and you get to choose every step of the way. If someone continually disregards your desires, you can say no at anytime.

    For me, boundaries feel restrictive, limiting, not allowing for flow. And I for one don’t want the feeling of restrictions. I prefer ease and flow.


  16.  #16Xti on June 19, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    **de-cloaking from deep lurk mode** :p

    I can’t resist a good discussion on boundaries!

    I struggled with the concept for so many years. I always thought to myself. “How can I have poor boundaries? I know exactly what bothers me!”
    So I focused my attention on trying to understand “how do I ‘enforce’ my boundaries?” Until I finally learned the simple truth: I don’t. Because boundaries aren’t for “them”, the people in my life–my relationships.

    Boundaries are for ME!!

    “Boundaries” are an agreement I make with myself about how *I* will behave in any situation. It doesn’t really matter what the other person does, or doesn’t do, because I have already decided for myself how I will behave. And keeping my promise to myself is what it means to have strong boundaries.

    He’s late? What did I promise myself I’d do?
    His clothes are on the floor? What did I decide I wanted to do about that? Yes, his behavior might create the scenario, but I get to decide 100% how I will behave within a situation.

    I also get to choose how much of this info I want to communicate up front. Sometimes, I may have so much experience around certain behaviors that I’m able to clearly state what my response will be–without exception.
    Other times, my response may be situational dependent and I can’t predict which response will feel most right ahead of time. This might be hard to convey in advance, but I can choose to disclose my sensitivity. At least then my response wouldn’t be a total surprise.

    I also realize that sometimes I still get caught off guard by new, unexpected behaviors. No way to see it coming. For those, having a generalized response is helpful. Something like, “if I look like a deer in the headlights, I might need a few minutes or some personal space to sort myself out. It just means I was surprised. I’ll usually need at least a day to fully process things, so I’ll want to hold off on talking about it right away.”

    This is what I tell new friends and dates if it looks like we’re going out more than a couple times. It gives me the space I need to figure out my feelings before I have to communicate them, which is usually the hardest part for me when I’m surprised. Everything goes so fast I have no time to assess my feelings.

    The more I work on this, the more I’m able to recognize feelings fast and then follow thru with my agreed upon behavior.

    Thanks for a great discussion!!

  17.  #17seahorse on June 19, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Holy cow………. just in the nick of time did I get through the trigger fest in my head and heart about NV’s and telling them ‘I am in charge of me’ ……… we go to this. Dominque is right………………… This so NOT for the faint of heart……………………..:)

    I feel sore. My body is sore. And I feel tired. Okay, be back tomorrow Seahorse….. take a lap and go snuggle with the dog…………….Thank you

  18.  #18seahorse on June 19, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    Btw……. I really love the I am in charge of me. Thank you. It worked and I feel better. I love all of me and especially the one who wants to eat sugar stuff. I want to take care of my body and I am showing her how.

  19.  #20Femininewoman on June 19, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Until then, simply envision a circle drawn around yourself, and around every other person you encounter. What you think, feel, believe, and decide does not belong to anyone but you, and what they think, feel, believe and decide does not belong to you. If you are going to team up, get along, work together, love each other, befriend each other, or communicate, it is going to be necessary to ask permission, find what you agree in common, feel in common, and choose in common, then enter intimate connection with each other on those terms and those alone.


  20.  #21Zara on June 19, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    A requirement is that which is necessary for a situation to happen or to keep existing.
    My boundaries is that beyond which I lose myself.

    If I should draw Me, the line that defines my shape would be my boundary. A field has a boundary. By drawing its boundary, the shape of the field appear.
    When my boundary is weak, any event, thought or feeling will make it morph and thus the definition of Me will be ever changing. I am not a safe consistent territory for myself. I lose myself.
    When my boundary is strong, my shape stays put.

    My boundary is all about me, regardless of the relationship I am in.

    If my husband sleeps with another woman, my boundary stays put. I know who I am and I don’t doubt myself. His actions with this woman do not unshape me. It is his choice for his life, it has nothing to do with me. I may chose to step out of the marriage because my requirement for exclusivity is not fulfilled. I may feel sad, yet I do not lose myself.

    If my husband fulfils all my requirements and more and I feel happy, my boundary will make sure I keep happy.
    I mean by this that my boundary keeps me shaped, I don’t lose myself by giving him back more than I give myself.

    And I don’t step out of my territory to intrude into his where I’d get lost inevitably.
    Crossing his boundaries means losing my own shape. It is as suicidal as letting him cross mine. I get to own my feelings and my choices and he gets to own his feelings and his choices.
    My boundary stays put, while I make my grass inside my defined territory greener. It is up to him to feel inspired to do the same, but if he does not, I respect my boundary by not stepping out to push his and force him to change. I accept him just as he is shaped by his boundary weither I choose to stay or to leave.

    Accepting a man just as he is, is a requirement for my boundary to stay put.
    Acknowledging my own boundary is a requirement to keep myself whole.
    A relationship moving froward requires 2 whole individuals.


  21.  #22Rori Raye on June 19, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Xti, Welcome, and thank you for the wonderful post…Love, Rori

  22.  #23seahorse on June 19, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    I was patting my left side of my chest and saying out loud, It’s okay, I have you. It’s alright’, really gentle and soothing. A bath and full make up and full hair, nice summer flowing gauzy pants and stretchy knit top…………. went out for a drive and a bite to eat. Salad and iced tea………. all the while thinking whats a boundary for me???

    I don’t want to abandon myself ever again. It hurts. I matter. Just that. I matter and it feels great when i say it. I am in charge.

    Zara- You put that so perfectly. When I read that…… I see the picture perfectly. For me that is not abandoning oneself. I stay right here in me. It’s a lovely place. Thank you

    I am really feeling pleased, yet a bit overwhelmed wit how fast the universe has been answering me. I had no idea.

    On a side note…………. I was listening to Peter Gabriel and the song Shaking the Tree, I played it over and over. Felt really great. I would love for all us Sirens to dance to it;) Lovely thought

  23.  #24Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    wow YEAH ! now Thats an awesome Exercise to try…

    about where are people behaving unhealthy around you…

    wow! I feel scared with excitement to try it

    awesome breakdown Mercedes!

  24.  #25Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    so diggin this too Zara

  25.  #26Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    i really like a tool my coach shared with me before she was even my coach

    which is to imagine an egg around you and when you speak imagine the energy of that speaking only to the boundary of this egg

    that really helped me be heard and not attack blame or feel like im spewing on people when i practiced communicating anger… i just remembered this Tool and drew an image for it!

    Thank you Darling Ella dont know if shes reading anytmie

  26.  #27Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    okay so im getting awesome revelations, one i was gonna write as a song but i shifted my brain wave and ‘lost’ the early and important part of it


    i still have some of the imagery and the concept

    the other one is about being a big faat wide grounded woman big and soft and opulent and abundant queen

    and let men be the more intense positive ion incomers landing into the pillow

  27.  #28Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Dman and i spent time today

    wow he’s so mature as far as his goals now! WOW!

    things so magically turn…

    i feel curious to be open to him

  28.  #29Daria on June 19, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    oh and my other mind is speaking again

    my heart is waking up

    mmm healing

    and powel

    and mmmmmm

    yay! pond is clearing!

    feeling amazing again!

  29.  #30Zia on June 19, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Just got home from seeing the new Monsters movie with my boy. Today is a day all about ME. No worrying or thinking about men or relationships. Just me and my little boy 🙂

  30.  #31Heart on June 19, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    Interesting discussion…I feel a little confused by Rori’s recent posts..I feel like I’m in college class trying to decipher a philosophical text or novel.

    I feel a little distrustful and betrayed. I sense that Rori explains things in her way because she doesn’t want us to come from a strategic place and that’s a good thing but sometimes I feel like if she had explained all these things better I wouldn’t have made so many mistakes while dating.

    Circular dating, FMs, expressing boundaries etc all these things can be Very Dangerous and completely turn men off if not handled delicately. It feels unfair to me to say: Bring a man close but if he doesn’t come closer he wasn’t your Mr. Right.
    I get a hardening, suspicious, scared feeling in my chest when I think about it like that….It feels like a cop out. That’s stuff everyone says…Oh you broke up , he wasn’t the right guy for you.
    It feels like being ripped off sometimes….Paying money, practicing tools and then the essential conclusion is something the woman next to you at work or your friend could say. Yes, maybe I am being a disgruntled Siren
    and I feel so bad and guilty because the reason I can even get in touch with my feelings and express them is in Largely Thanks to Rori and her tools.
    Oh, the irony….biting the hand that feels.
    Just yesterday I was talking to someone about a book and the person asked me where I heard it from…and it was from Rori. (through this site)

    At the end of the day, Rori is the still the Lady Godiva of relationship coaching, she’s still the luxury hotel compared to everyone else’s cheap motel –> but she is still lacking. It was 20 something years ago since she dated and the issues and problems we Women face today, she has never experienced first hand.

    I don’ want to attack Rori. I feel super grateful to her and many of her teachings.
    Still, when I come in here seeing women taking so much Bad Advice from other women on this blog, and haphazardly trying out tools that push their men away.

    I even see people now encouraging Elsie now to circular date and painting GS like some kind of villain when two weeks ago he was a hero. I felt a sick sadness in my heart. Is it wrong to love a man now? Is that against the status quo?

    Countless woman come on here and totally downward spiral to obsessive, ruminating, fearful creatures…to be then followed by RahRahRah I am women hear me roar posts and then back to neuroticism. I have been one of those women.
    And now Rori is explaining herself and her work, after coming under fire from other female coaches. And I’m realizing that I have no real understanding of what is I’m really doing and I’m wondering why didn’t she explain it all before?
    THOUSANDS OF POSTS ON HER BLOG should have been proof enough to Rori that many women were not understanding her work. How could she not have seen this for years? A little part of me feels icky and wonders if somewhere behind all that brilliance is a back-tracking politician and then I feel really scared and kind of lost thinking about Rori in that icky way….and my mind quickly jumps into a totally defense of her and then I feel sad and teary eyed and like a trouble – making ingrate.

  31.  #32Zia on June 19, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Heart, I think we all have to do what feels right to US. There is a LOT of the stuff that Rori teaches that resonates so well with me. There are a few things that don’t. And I have a whole bucket of other tools at my disposal that compliment the general gist of what Rori teaches to fill in those gaps that are missing here. I don’t feel any one of us can rely on a single person or source as the answer to all our woes with ourselves and men. But her stuff is a REALLY great starting point for women who are struggling in relationships (like I was) and having no idea why or where to start to work out what is causing the problem.

  32.  #33Zia on June 19, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    xti: BEAUTIFUL! perfect!!!

  33.  #34Heart on June 19, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    Zia – Thanks for response. I like what you wrote and I’m curious about your bag of tools. Any recommendations?

  34.  #35Milllie on June 20, 2013 at 12:27 am

    “I prefer the idea that when I start feeling NOT peaceful, I’ve lost sight of my inner boundaries.

    The “inner country” where I am myself.”

    I LOVE this: “the inner country.” Such a beautiful image.
    This resonates with me because I think I don’t set enough boundaries..it is helpful to use being “not at peace” as an indicator for my own boundaries being crossed by me.

  35.  #36Zia on June 20, 2013 at 12:51 am

    Heart – so many! I am a part of Evan Marc Katz’ focus group (for a man’s perspective). I came across him after reading some articles on this blog. He is really helpful for the more specifics and how to’s with dating and the early parts of a relationship. I also am reading the Queens Code which is very complimentary. I have also started following a few of the interviewees from the Sensuality Summit I’ve been a part of (which I think I posted the link to in the last post). Virginia Clark has a great heart meditation which I use almost every night, and she is also featured in one of Rori’s progams and on the blog here too.

    There are a lot of aspects that I am addressing – not to change who I am, but to learn how to be open and unapologetic about who I am. About not being afraid of being myself around everyone.

    I actually bought all of Rori’s programs and I am really glad I did. I’ve listen to all of them, and there is so much good stuff in them – and while I initially purchased them to learn how to be better with men and relationships, what I actually got out of them was all about ME. About how to be the best me I can, and how to work out what was holding me back, what I was stuffing down, and how to embrace going out with men and learning what they have to offer. I am sure her tools will be helpful when I do get into another relationship too, but I haven’t gotten that far yet.

    It’s a bit like when I was about to become a first time parent. I read up on all sorts of different styles of what to do when I had a newborn, and disregarded those that didn’t sit right, and went with the techniques that did. What sat well in my heart. When I’ve come across things that don’t feel right with any of the programs or people I am learning from, I go out and I search for something that does resonate, and that leads me down some other path of discovery.

    Hope this helps?

  36.  #37Veronica on June 20, 2013 at 12:59 am

    From the previous thread:

    Seahorse – I tried it last night. I wrote on the mirror all that I was feeling, the mirror would later steam up again and the words would almost disappear. When I was done I would wipe the mirror clean. That felt good. Also I painted the word love all over my body with rose-scented foam bath liquid and the heat from my body released the smell of roses – that was so pleasant and unexpected. There was the initial feeling of excitement around doing something new but there was something much deeper and softer going on that I can’t quite describe yet.
    Everyday living is creative : )

    Sophie – 877 – My perception of my own value has taken quite a knock. This blog and support from family and friends is helping me to realize that I’m just fine, so thank you for the support I really appreciate it.

    Hana – 879 – There’s not a huge Salsa culture here, but there should be ; ) Your little girl is no longer that painful memory of loneliness – she’s now this amplifier of who you are — that is so touching. I feel like giving her a hug and celebrating her. No my real name is quite unique for where I’m living (I haven’t met anyone yet who has the same name as me) and if I use it I would feel too easily identifiable. I think it would feel so good for me to just watch people dancing, watch their energies interacting. When I get a chance I’ll go with my sister.

    Seahorse – 880- This is good. I’m feeling curious as to what kind of beauty I will see. And when that happens, how will not think of you also? : ) Hugs and thanks to you.

    Turquoise – 882 – oh gosh yes – slow passionate lovemaking – even those words are beautiful to hear.

    Dominique – 883 – Yes, thank you. When I know I’m loved and it’s a deep generous love, then it’s much easier to be at my peak. When I don’t feel loved, then I’m in my head and things will fall apart pretty soon in terms of desire, attraction, softness.

    FW-887- Love the questions – will be pondering that while I try to finally sort out stuff at the bank, again

    Elsie – 915 – Thank you. It’s not so much relief I’m feeling than there was not much else I could do anymore or wanted to do anymore. I feel lighter, though.

    FW – 916 & 917 – Knowing how honest you are, I appreciate what you said. I don’t feel regret yet. It’s definitely time for boundary work.

    Beloved – 925 – I’m liking this energy of yours a lot!

  37.  #38Zia on June 20, 2013 at 1:44 am

    Dominique: ” I don’t see this so much as boundaries but as again expressing your feelings, what you want and don’t want, and you get to choose every step of the way. ”

    to me, expressing what I don’t want is what i consider a boundary…. i guess for now, for me, its something i need to do since i’ve never done it before. sometimes we have to allow the pendulum to swing from one end to the other before it can settle in the middle 🙂

  38.  #39Zia on June 20, 2013 at 1:48 am

    Zara 19 – perfectly said 🙂

  39.  #40S. on June 20, 2013 at 2:54 am

    Hello my friends!
    Love from sunny Greece!
    I came here today to post a comment asking your opinion on a different matter, and i got so glad reading this post on boundaries!! My lack of boundaries has been the reason i went through so many disappointments throughout my life! I used to so not expressing what i want or can’t afford and actually i was proud of it thinking that i was giving “unconditional love” and the fact that the men i was attached to were leaving me for other girls, was making me think that i was just unlucky with boys!! My God…
    I was even thinking that by being nice to them i would keep them in my life, they would accept me, they would love me! And now, i am 33 years old and i have developed a real difficulty feeling myself, expressing my self and messing up my mind, not to mention the psychosomatic problems i went through, the periods of depression and loneliness. Every time i was about to stand up for my self, because the situation was becoming really bad, i was feeling soo but sooo much guilty for doing this that i was immediately backing up! This was happening in my relationship with my mother which was always very intense and she was always so controlling and sometimes cold with me,to all my relationships with my boyfriends! Not to mention that because of my lack of boundaries and becasue i wasn’t ask for what i wanted, i became unable to receive love, i was only giving and i was so confused when the men were running away from me. I got grown up with the feeling that i am cursed. I hated my self for not being able to receive love. I was only hoping that some day the spells will be in a magical way resolved.I became so much sensitive, lonely, shy, closed to myself, angry, ill. And now that i am writing this i feel so moved and compassionate for myself that tears fall.
    I don’t know why i share with you all these things, but this post triggered so many sensitive feelings in me that i felt to let them out! Mercendes you speak to my heart! I still find difficult to express my self but i push myslef to do it and then if second thoughts are coming to my mind and guiltiness and old self comes up, i run immediately here on this blog to take some relief some guidance, some confirmation. And you always give it somehow! 🙂 Thank you all for this!

  40.  #41S. on June 20, 2013 at 2:54 am

    Hello my friends!
    Love from sunny Greece!
    I came here today to post a comment asking your opinion on a different matter, and i got so glad reading this post on boundaries!! My lack of boundaries has been the reason i went through so many disappointments throughout my life! I used to so not expressing what i want or can’t afford and actually i was proud of it thinking that i was giving “unconditional love” and the fact that the men i was attached to were leaving me for other girls, was making me think that i was just unlucky with boys!! My God…
    I was even thinking that by being nice to them i would keep them in my life, they would accept me, they would love me! And now, i am 33 years old and i have developed a real difficulty feeling myself, expressing my self and messing up my mind, not to mention the psychosomatic problems i went through, the periods of depression and loneliness. Every time i was about to stand up for my self, because the situation was becoming really bad, i was feeling soo but sooo much guilty for doing this that i was immediately backing up! This was happening in my relationship with my mother which was always very intense and she was always so controlling and sometimes cold with me,to all my relationships with my boyfriends! Not to mention that because of my lack of boundaries and becasue i wasn’t ask for what i wanted, i became unable to receive love, i was only giving and i was so confused when the men were running away from me. I got grown up with the feeling that i am cursed. I hated my self for not being able to receive love. I was only hoping that some day the spells will be in a magical way resolved.I became so much sensitive, lonely, shy, closed to myself, angry, ill. And now that i am writing this i feel so moved and compassionate for myself that tears fall.
    I don’t know why i share with you all these things, but this post triggered so many sensitive feelings in me that i felt to let them out! Mercendes you speak to my heart! I still find difficult to express my self but i push myself to do it and then if second thoughts are coming to my mind and guiltiness and old self comes up, i run immediately here on this blog to take some relief some guidance, some confirmation. And you always give it somehow! 🙂 Thank you all for this!

  41.  #42BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 3:10 am

    Wow. A night full of amazing dreams.
    I woke up from a dream of screaming for help and nobody listening or coming to my rescue.
    I contemplated my behavior yesterday quite a bit…
    I thought, wow, I finally let him wear me down enough to drag me down to cursing him out and acting like a hood rat. I let him train me how to be with him. I’m sure he derived an immense amount of satisfaction from that.
    C is just poison to me.
    Over and over again, he seems to work really hard to gain some trust with me, and the minute I let my guard down, he starts acting out.

    I feel emotionally raped.
    I feel pleased that my reaction is appropriate anger rather than wanting to try harder to make nice, or feeling abandoned or rejected or as if I had done something wrong.
    I have felt this way with him again and again.
    On Monday I feel cared for, by Thursday I feel like a ratty used up tissue.
    Let this be the day I learn this lesson all the way through.

  42.  #43S. on June 20, 2013 at 3:26 am

    Also, there is something that is triggering my mind and i would love to receive your opinion on this.
    I found out about Rori and this block too months ago, and when reading it was like i arrived in a new land, a new world! Not to go far, i started immediately undoing some of my mistakes such as not initiating, just being. Well, i consider this chaos that i feel inside me as a transition from my old self to the new one, like things are getting reordered step by step inside me and i recognize how strange i feel and i look to people around me. This scares me.
    There is a man in my circle of friends that i used to like so much but i was feeling so scared showing my feelings, i actually avoid all his first attempts to flirt me at the beginning (this happened years ago). after some time, i tried to flirt him by leaning too forward that actually scared him to hell and turned him off. Nothing ever happened. Some time later, I became very close with this group of friends and with him we were for some time very close friends but the attraction i could tell was in the way. I was calling him (in the name of our friendship), i was arguing with him, and i can tell there was a mix of friendship love and tension between us all the time.
    Lately, i feel strange. I don’t call him, i don’t go close to him at our group meetingst, i just be, but i feel strange and i can see how he and the other friends look at me. Yesterday, he was standing next to our friend in a party, and although at other times i would go there with them and chat, this time i was in a distance, i didn’t move. Nor did they. Also at a moment i was with some girlfriends and he came to us and we started a conversaqtion about the political situation here, i didn’t participate in the conversation, i didn’t argue, i didn’t say anything like i used to do before. I was just there listening, trying to feel my vagina, sinking in myself and i can tell that i definitely looked strange!
    I don’t know what to do now , i feel i want to apply some of Rori tools on him like no call and no approaching him first and no initiating and actually stop the friendship factor with him, but i don’t want to seem distant with him and our friends. It was so strange yesterday, he was standing close to a male friend of ours, i say hello passing near them, but i didn’t stay with them so i saw the look in our friend’s face was like “what’s happening with her?”
    What i mean is how can i apply the rules on him when we are together with our friends? How do i change all the mistakes i did with him how do i change the friendship i was offering to him when i didn’t know how else to bring him close, with something else that could bring him close to me romantically? And if he asks me why i don’t call or why i seem distant what do i say? I know i am changing outside because i m changing inside also but with all the other people i was so happy with, how can i attract him romantically and at the same time not change my relationship with our friends?
    Love, Sofie@@

  43.  #44ruth on June 20, 2013 at 3:54 am

    thank you for those links on the last Blog

    Hm Boundaries
    I dont even state mine anymore where my family are concerned
    I just walk away
    That feels good to me
    I am living the life that I want, not how they want me to live think and feel
    I dont even argue the point now
    I just remove myself

  44.  #45ruth on June 20, 2013 at 4:09 am

    Interesting discussion though
    I partly agree with Dominique that too much boundary setting can be restricting
    At the end of the day, it is about treating oneself with respect and love-and listening to our feelings
    If it doesnt feel good then something is not right

    That somenting might be nothing at all to do withe the other pertson though-it might be a trigger within ourselves

    The other thing I just thought was that over time, what previously may have felt like a “non negotiable” or “fixed” boundary can change

    As Ive got older, some issues which seemed so clearly black and white to me are blurred in shades of grey

  45.  #46BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 5:08 am

    Thinking more of this dynamic with C, I see the power struggle…
    I sat down this morning and he was doing silly stuff like taking K’s hand and forming her fingers into a flipping the bird formation…I was stone-faced, then he teased me until I smiled and I hate that I smiled.

    I felt manipulated. I don’t want to be manipulated.

    What. On. Earth. is going on with me? What is in my spirit that is playing out with this guy?
    I can avoid engaging with him as much as possible (and I will),
    what do I need to see? What do I need to learn?

    Anyone have advice on dealing with a charming rascal type? I don’t want to feel a weakness for his antics.

    I don’t know what to do.
    what do y’all think?

  46.  #47indigo on June 20, 2013 at 5:22 am


    I so hear what you are saying and I applaud your authenticity in saying it.

    I agree with Zia. As much respect as I have for Rori and her advice, I still have to weigh everything and see how it sits with me. Sometimes Dominique has a slightly different take which I prefer. Sometimes I fill in the blanks on my own, and sometimes I go my own way altogether.

    I learnt long ago not to hero-worship a particular “expert” or take anyone’s advice on all matters unquestioningly. I pass everything I hear and read through the filter of what feels most right for me, and my own intuition, because each human soul is so different. I love it when I find someone I can answer a resounding “Yes!” to most of what they say. That is rare.

    For me, it helps in navigating all of this to keep my life firmly fixed on certain principles and ideas which I hold dear. Truths which I will never compromise. I don’t think we can look to a dating coach to provide this for us, I think we have to do this for ourselves. I would love to see more women STAND for something, anything, not get swayed whichever way the wind blows. Maybe one of the reasons I really enjoy Mercedes’ posts.

  47.  #48Mel on June 20, 2013 at 5:34 am


    Interesting discussion.

    Sometimes I wonder if having an “If X happens, then I will do Y” philosophy around boundaries has one focused on the negative? Like…: I just know he’s going to disappoint me and not show up, so if that happens, I’ll do…. It feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy maybe?

    I feel curious about shifting that to only ONE general boundary.

    I will feel happy no matter what.

    And then just do what feels good in any given situation. He doesn’t show up. Ok… I FEEL disappointed, and I don’t WANT to feel that way…. so?

    What would feel good in that moment? A run in the rain? A hot cup of tea? A snuggle with the dogs? Planting some seeds? Dinner with friends?

    And after a while, if this becomes a pattern (though I’m not anticipating it to be…) I will just naturally FEEL happier without that person in my life. Just… organically. No walls.

    I love Zara’s explanation. The “me” boundary. The shape that is me. The happy shape. I love reading her posts. 🙂

  48.  #49Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 5:59 am

    Heart. Slow. Clap. While. Nodding.

    Thank you for that soul bearing and authentic post. I think we all love Rori – and you do too. But your posts resonates with me in such a strong way. I was JUST talking about this last night with a friend. And I feel humbled that you would include me and GS in your example. Thank you.

    For example: I am away for a week, and he and I havent been intimate therefore in two weeks. When I see him tomorrow at work I want to just jump right on him and squeal and say – I love you – please come over this weekend and lets have some time together and lots of sex. 🙂

    But because he hasnt initiated contact and has felt a little distant, I feel like I am “supposed” to give him his space. Let him fill that space. Pull back. Drop the oars….whatever metaphor.

    Then I have anxiety – not only from the original situation of where he is pulling back, but then because I feel like I have to work at being someone that I am not. Now working on yourself is a good thing – and I think its also good not to cling on some man’s heels and beg for attention and lose all sense of identity. But it feels inauthentic to me to not just say what I want and sometimes frankly, pick up the oars. Is it wrong that sometimes I actually enjoy rowing the boat?

    Heart – I feel your post very deeply. I wonder if other sirens on here can speak to it – Mercedes…..Dominique……Feminine Woman? Thoughts?

    What should I do tomorrow? Squeal and show him how much I really love him? He did fall in love with me after all….. Or lean back and let him row the boat because he has been distant. I sometimes feel like I work so hard to get better, that maybe I’m actually getting worse. I dont know.

  49.  #50seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 6:14 am

    Wow…..so much out there on this subject……………..subjective. How we, our individual selves see things through our filter.

    Sweet Veronica- The tool is to paint yourself with water. Every strand of your beautiful hair……. to the tips of your sweet toes……every overlooked nook and cranny gets painted with love. While you are doing this you are to say I love you……… you gotta mean it! If you can’t believe it at first just keep doing it and it will happen. Imagine your man, or any man, watching you do this……….hehehehehehe……. I actually blushed when I did that part…………. Imagine that he is pleased as punch as he watches you paint yourself…………… Oh Veronica, aren’t we lovely when we get past all the negative voices? I find it almost like finding an old dear friend. Hugs and happy painting!

  50.  #51Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 6:20 am

    Dominique: ” the people with whom I maybe needed to have some boundaries set fall by the wayside. And the ones who came in to take their place, no boundaries were necessary. It all just was. No discussion needed.”

    I agree with the no discussion needed part. As I said, I rarely even bring up boundaries anymore (except on this blog). At one time, J and I were in a place where I really did need to state them. It was critical for us getting back together and I’m soooo glad we had those discussions.

    And I also agree that people who don’t fit into our lives right will fall away naturally. Sometimes that is because we are working on ourselves and sometimes it is because we have clearly stated boundaries and they aren’t interested in respecting them. Either way, yes, they will eventually go away.

    For me, stating a boundary when it is needed is strong and feels really good. I don’t think all people will fall away just by me working on me. I have family who had to be told “I won’t tolerate being treated that way”. If I hadn’t, I’m pretty sure they would still be there, disrespecting me, no matter how hard I worked on myself.

    But each person is different and each of us has our own ways of dealing with people around us. My boundaries are rarely spoken but are in my heart and I don’t mind asking someone to remove themselves from my life if they they’re disrespecting me. To me, that is setting and communicating boundaries and it feels good.

    I think internal work is amazing in so, so many ways but I also believe that there are people in the world who need to be told when we won’t put up with certain treatment. And I think it is good to tell them that.

    Much Love,

  51.  #52seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 6:22 am

    Elsie- I didn’t heed the advice. I jumped and did exactly as whoever inside me wanted. It’s a year later with a whole bunch of weight and getting through guilt and saddness and……………….. self abandonment and boundaries stuff right in my face. I could of listened and been somewhere different today………… BUT………. I did not. I jumped for sure, right off my horse and ran into the forest…………. lost AGAIN ,but found now. Wiser? for sure.

    Elsie, How strong is that voice? Are you going to be like me and jump off your horse and go into the forest? Only you know.

  52.  #53Mel on June 20, 2013 at 6:26 am


    “I even see people now encouraging Elsie now to circular date and painting GS like some kind of villain when two weeks ago he was a hero. I felt a sick sadness in my heart. Is it wrong to love a man now? Is that against the status quo?”

    *** personal opinion follows.***

    One of Rori’s core teachings is CD-ing. It’s what she recommends. I feel curious why some women come to this blog if they don’t want to try it (at least in some capacity). We’re all different. Some things will resonate, some will not. Why not find something that works better, FEELS better then? If CD-ing is not resonating, I respect that.

    As for making any man a villain, I think that is quite the opposite of what any siren here advocates.

    The whole point of CD-ing is to accept men AS THEY ARE and not place blame. To receive what a man is willing to give without blaming him for those things is is unwilling/unable to give. To give to ourselves. To be open.

    No one person has all the answers. All we can do is apply what feels right to us.

    For me, this blog has been a place to challenge my own beliefs, shift my perspective, and get support along the way.

    Sometimes things do not resonate with me, and that’s okay. I take the good with the bad.

    People mostly are just kind and want to “be there” you know?

    They’re just sharing things from another perspective. And I admit that the ones I originally felt most resistant to were actually most beneficial to my personal growth.

  53.  #54seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 6:28 am

    What does it mean when someone hands you the tools to be you and you argue about it and go do your own thing? How strong is that voice? Oh man!!!! BOUNDARIES are at play in that. Everything is Boundaries………… right there at he heart of it is boundaries. It’s feeling messages to say what are boundaries are without it being about another person……… it’s safe and feels really safe…….. I am safe. ooohhhhhhhhhhh…………………… breathing low with a rush of ??????…………. I am safe and can say NO.

    I had to go back and capitalize my I’s…………. duuuuude

  54.  #55Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 6:30 am

    Xti – 15 – Very nice. 🙂


  55.  #56seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 6:32 am

    YES! Most RESISTANT to!!!!!!! Resistantance is the voice in there that says to jump off my HORSE!!! Dammit!!!! Oh you’re fine go do what you want……………… walking around the freakin forest no gd horse no gd water no sense!!!! Freaking got so mad!! And then ate!! MORE SELF ABANDONMENT!

    Resistance………….love it and the walls melt…..all melts with love shinning love

  56.  #57Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 6:36 am

    Elsie: I’m not sure which part of Heart’s post you would like me to comment on. I do believe in Rori’s tools (although I think some are taken to extremes – like using feeling messages – and I don’t always do it) so I don’t really know what to say about it. I respect the way Heart is seeing things right now but it isn’t the way I see them. I circular dated for a long time with J…it brought him closer…and I have the relationship of my dreams. It worked for me so I believe it can work for others. But that’s me and not Heart. So…I don’t really know what else I would say.

    I know from my experience, certain things repel a man and cause him to distance himself and withdraw and sometimes even leave forever. I think Rori has pretty much nailed those things down and I agree with her almost completely (although we have had many disagreements over the last several years) when it comes to how to take care of ourselves and make sure that we are not waiting around eating up crumbs like they are the most amazing cake ever presented to us while a man makes up his mind about when (or if) he’s going to come out of his funk and move closer to us. I think she shows us exactly how NOT to be a doormat while he makes up his mind about what he wants. I love that.

    As far as how you should act when you see GS again..I’d say authentically. Whatever you feel in your heart. But I would also encourage you to go into your heart and discover how you really feel right now. While he is being distant…how do you really feel? Like squealing with delight? Then do it. Curious about how he’s feeling right now? Then maybe give him space to tell you what’s going on. Bored? Then do something nice for you. Relieved? Then maybe initiate a hug. I don’t know how you feel right now but I would encourage you to ensure your actions are in direct proportion to your feelings.

    Much Love,

  57.  #58BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 6:42 am

    Okay…I’m seeing it…
    where does the power play begin? where does it start?
    the minute something feels bad and instead of saying so, or moving to feeling better, I feel guarded, angry, I play the game instead of opting out.
    I wonder what I can do differently.
    Ah…feck it,
    “I don’t know how I outgrow the power struggle pattern forever, I only know I do and I am fulfilled.”
    There. Done. And so it is.

  58.  #59Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 6:43 am

    S – What i mean is how can i apply the rules on him when we are together with our friends?

    I don’t think it is about apply rules on anyone. I believe it is about you loving yourself, being comfortable with yourself and re-presenting the new you to the world. Everyone won’t resonate with you because they might be vibrating at a different frequency. We are all energy and the people that don’t resonate with you will naturally feel strange around you. The man who is your twin flame will be magnitized towards the new you. You might be attracted to this man but feeling the way the energy flows between you two and how you feel about yourself in and out of his presence is what I would suggest you focus on. People will sometime approve of. At other times they won’t.

  59.  #60Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 6:45 am

    BeLoved: “the minute something feels bad and instead of saying so, or moving to feeling better, I feel guarded, angry, I play the game instead of opting out.”

    Maybe practice the boundary breakdown I wrote in the above post…I think it might help. If nothing else, the visualization won’t hurt. 🙂

    Much Love,

  60.  #61BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 6:46 am

    Mercedes – kk thanks, will check it out.
    Oh, the irony of struggling with the power struggle pattern… oy

  61.  #62Brenda on June 20, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Question Rori I don’t know if u remember my story? I been dealing with a man since 02 off and on.Boundaries have been broken, far as using my car staying gone til the next day, hr has borrowed money hasn’t paid all of it back.He says he loves me.I went 3 mths Nc and he continously called and came over the whole 3 mths and I gave in.I didn’t see much change so I shut down again hr said in 3 days I pushed him away when I asked him if we were still going out on sat.He continues to come around we have sex ince a week see each other every other day but we are not in a relationshio.

    What do I do? Or what do I say to get him to open up about our situation,? He says he doesn’t want to talk about it anymore.I guess like go with the flow I have told him I have strong feelings for him and can’t handle just a sexual relationship. He doesn’t respond anymore when I ask questions he says he’s not with anyone like that he does a lil mingling but thats all.He hasn’t lived with me in a yr or do he stays a night once or twice a mth, no real dates, so this is basically a sexual relationship,but I let him know I cant hanfke just a sexual relationship I want more.

  62.  #63April Rose on June 20, 2013 at 6:54 am


    “What should I do tomorrow? Squeal and show him how much I really love him? He did fall in love with me after all….. Or lean back and let him row the boat because he has been distant.”

    I can only relate my own experience here.
    WM had been so distant, and he’d been away for a week. Leaning back hadn’t brought him closer. So, yes, I rushed eagerly into his arms when he returned. I showed how I felt – very happy to see him, and open to his love. That moment turned things round for me.

    Each case is individual. All I can do is to act in a way that feels truest to my heart.
    And yes, leaning back works brilliantly when I’m feeling *graspy*.

    I think the key is to discern between feeling needy and insecure (graspy), and feeling open and loving. When I’m feeling open and loving, I can do *anything* and he responds with love.

  63.  #64Mel on June 20, 2013 at 6:56 am

    FW (or others who have some insight on this),

    Can I ask you about your experience using the “tools” with your son?

    I have a teenage boy (partner’s son) in my home part of the time. He’s a nice boy. But sometimes I feel soooooo frustrated.

    Quiet time feels important to my overall happiness.

    I feel best in a neat and tidy home.

    His father asks him repeatedly to pick up after himself. To put on headphones. To avoid putting his wet towel into the clean laundry.

    I feel grossed-out to find musty-smelling laundry. I feel a low, cat-like growl form in my belly when I see that the kitchen is a mess after I just cleaned it. I feel tense and on edge when I come home from work and I hear grating video-game noise and “F*!” agitated communication.

    And I mostly “stay out” of parenting (I feel this is best), but I wonder what would happen if I said these things? I don’t want to feel resentful.

    What do you think?

  64.  #65Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 6:58 am

    Jumping and squealling at the sight of a man feels real girl and special. Very tender and sweet. Just like a girl would do for daddy which is one of the reasons I believe girls can wrap their daddy around their little finger.

    I would feel open to doing this when I am sure that I and the man I am involved with is on the same page. Otherwise I would prefer to mirror his enthusiasm as I would be concerned about overstepping his boundary. His PDA might be, in his mind, reserve for specific situations. I feel great when I am in a space where we can enjoy our love without fear.

  65.  #66seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 6:58 am

    Trigger trigger trigger……….. whoah horsey!!! I am not going to fall off!!! Keep my seat and use my thighs to guide……..lookie me no hands!………………. I love my horse. Had to go back and capitalize again……… Why the resistance say go do xyz….if I know and have been told that it’s going to hurt???? Subconscious is at work and wants to keep me in the loop? And to break that hold one must be courageous and look under the couch for the boogey man crocodile………….. it says if it feels good it must be good cuz thats what you are used to………………….. stay here where we know the pain is that is familiar………. it will hurt to have new pain…. the unknown is pain……..LIAR!!!!! NOT TRUE,the unknown is beautiful because it is unknown and I can make it any way I want to. I can say NO and it’s not wrong to say no. BOUNDARIES…………. WOOP WOOP!!! And the other people are safe because they have boundaries and if they don’t I have feeling message to tell them this is my boundary…………. or they can leave because thats okay too. breathing low and steady seahorse

  66.  #67BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 7:01 am

    I like Daria’s egg, too. Mine is all glowy and humming and lights up with soft colors like a color-changing LED bulb.

  67.  #68Mel on June 20, 2013 at 7:11 am

    Hello April Rose! 🙂

  68.  #69Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Thank you everyone for responding!!! I love this place. 🙂

    Mercedes – I dont know how I feel. Thats me being honest. I feel literally one way one second, and it totally changes the next. And that goes on and on, and doesnt “settle” into one feeling or another.

    Literally one minute, I want to jump in his arms and squeal and say, come over tonight, because I miss you and want to have some fun!!! 🙂 And then the next minute, I think, wait, he has been distant, maybe I should give him space.

    I am literally 50/50 on it. I have thought about it now for over a week. I am still 50/50 on it.

    I have to make a decision tomorrow when I see him. Either I act super happy and tell him how I feel about wanting to see him and have fun together, or I act aloof and give him his space.

    I literally genuinely FEEL both ways. So what do I do?

  69.  #70seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 7:19 am

    hahahahahah!!! Beloved thats beautiful!
    I’m going to try too…………….

    Mine looks like the earths atmosphere ….. daylight and night time ….clouds swirling and then clearing……. storms and beautiful clear skies………….oxygen can come through as does the sunshine to nourish me……………. and others around me are the same….. the atmosphere is a skin that lets in oxygen and sunshine and rain……….. and keeps me from flying apart….. gravity holds in me in my atmosphere…..the gravity is centered around my glowing heart thats lights me and keeps me warm

  70.  #71Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 7:22 am

    Elsie: ” I want to jump in his arms and squeal and say, come over tonight, because I miss you and want to have some fun!!! ”

    Since I have known you, every single time you have invited GS to do something with you or come over or whatever, you have been disappointed with his reaction (at least in the situations you have shared with me). If you invite him over, can you handle his reaction without feeling hurt and insecure?

    Another question you might ask yourself is: “Do I want to know whether or not he missed me and whether or not he was going to ask me out and whether or not he was going to suggest he come over? Will I ever know that if I ask him first?”

    And maybe take a look at: “Am I with a man who prefers I row the boat? Either way, yes or no, am I okay with that?”

    Much Love,

  71.  #72seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Elsie- How about confusion? How about the truth? I feel confused. I feel like doing this and part of me wants to do that? I feel stuck on it and can’t decide. What do you think?

  72.  #73Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 7:25 am

    Elsie: This is all internal work I’m suggesting. I can’t possibly tell you what to do. I don’t know, for anyone else’s situation, what the right thing to “do” is. You need to go deep into yourself. I can’t do that for you. If YOU literally don’t know how you feel then there is no way I can guide you. I would encourage you to meditate or pr@y or visualize or whatever it is that works best for you so that you can become clear on how you feel. Otherwise, I can tell you what to do but it won’t be authentically aligned with how you feel and what you want.

    Much Love,

  73.  #74seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 7:30 am

    I feel triggered with Mercedes answer. On one hand, I love the questions because I have to go inside and ask……….. then that leads to more and more questions that I have to answer. And the……….. there’s just more questions for myself…………. HAHAHHAHAAHa!!!! BOUNDARIES are first right. What am I needing? What do I really really want? What am I comfortable with? And does that really feel good to me? Who am I????? How many licks does it take to get to the center of the lollipop??? hahahahhahhaah!!!!

  74.  #75seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 7:33 am

    71- Mercedes!!!! Hahahahahahaahahaha!!! I love reading you!!! I was worried there for second for my sanity. So glad to have a sense of humor. You lit me up tho!!!

  75.  #76Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 7:35 am

    Mel – I use the fms with my son. I do find that my tone and vibe is important when dealing with him because he will reflect right back to me whatever tone I speak to him in, which was angry most of the times and he does the same things. When I keep repeating myself he shuts me out. I find mostly when I say something and then drop it is when he is most responsive. Sometimes that takes days but when he responds he responds well.

    It seems for him he feels respected when I allow it to be his idea. Sometimes I just tell him once and he immediately responds that he will. He might take a while to do it but he does. Timing I realize is important to him too.

  76.  #77Mel on June 20, 2013 at 7:35 am

    “Either I act super happy and tell him how I feel about wanting to see him and have fun together, or I act aloof and give him his space.”

    The word that stuck out for me here is “ACT”. It comes across that neither of these two reactions is maybe authentic.

    Are you feeling happy?

    Are you feeling aloof?

    Are you feeling needy?

    Are you feeling confident?

    Are you feeling attached to the outcome?

    Are you feeling rock-star?

    These would be questions I would ask myself.

    I looooove poetically communicating how I REALLY feel to my man. Full of descriptions and metaphor and vulnerability. It feels fun to do now. I feel good at it even. I used to feel really inept though. Just sayin’. 😉

  77.  #78Mel on June 20, 2013 at 7:40 am


    So…. If, for instance, you came home to a huge mess in the kitchen (and this was something that really makes you feel cringe-y), what would you say?

    FMs aren’t supposed to be for the purpose of “getting” a certain result…. But boy, oh, boy, do I ever WANT him to clean up that mess! LOL

  78.  #79Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 7:48 am

    “Either I act super happy ”

    I don’t believe it should be an act. I am sensing that in paying attention to what you want you might be unaware of the energy between you two. I sincerely believe that paying attention will allow your intuition to kick in so you feel him. Putting your attention on your heart, melting and asking yourself what are you feeling might help. Maybe a “it feels so good to see you” might help to pull him in a bit before jumping and squealing or give you the space to let him know that you feel like squealing and jumping into his arms. I believe that would be surrender speech and gives him the space to allow him to let you know if he is open to that.

    Maybe just going ahead and assuming that he would be open to receiving that might not be respectful. What man would not want such enthusiasm from the woman he loves, at least in private?

  79.  #80Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 7:52 am

    Mel I tell my son it feels frustrating to keep repeating, there is no maid and I don’t want to feel…….so please, I need your help. When he does I tell him I appreciate his cooperation.

  80.  #81Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:52 am

    Wow. Ok – lots to think about. Internal work here we go: Mercedes, I swear I should pay you for therapy. LOL.

    OK – first: you said….If you invite him over, can you handle his reaction without feeling hurt and insecure?

    I’m picturing it right now – me being all excited and asking him to come over and have fun. Its hard for me to picture him rejecting me and saying he isnt sure if he can make it. It hurts to see. I know that Dominique says I shouldnt have expectations, but I think by telling him this, I absolutely have the expectation that he will say yes. I am also afraid that if I dont tell him that he will think I’m not interested for some reason, he will think – well, if she wanted to see me she would say so – Ive told her to tell me how she feels because I’m not good sometimes at reading her. If she isnt telling me that she wants me over then she probably doesnt want me over. She probably wants to be with her children and get some rest after her trip (He would think – that is what he would need after a trip). I can totally see him thinking that. Ok – great. I’m at a stalemate here. Let me move on. I’m still 50/50 on how I would feel if I told him and he would reject me because I think the only reason he would reject me is because he wouldnt be able to make it. I dont think he would not come over if he could make it – I dont think. I dont know but I dont think so. Ok – I’m very confused on this issue obviously – I am still 50/50

    So then you said…..Another question you might ask yourself is: “Do I want to know whether or not he missed me and whether or not he was going to ask me out and whether or not he was going to suggest he come over? Will I ever know that if I ask him first?”

    The answer is yes. I do want to know if he missed me and whether or not he was going to suggest he comes over. I will not know that if I ask him first. But I am still torn because I dont want him to think that if I wanted to be with him after being gone for a week that I dont want to be with him, etc. Same as above…..sigh.

    And maybe take a look at: “Am I with a man who prefers I row the boat? Either way, yes or no, am I okay with that?”

    No. I just thought a very long time about that question. I dont think he wants me rowing the boat. I am ok with that.

    Seahorse – EXACTLY how I feel. I feel confused. Do I tell HIM that?

  81.  #82ruth on June 20, 2013 at 7:53 am

    Oh FW

    Youve just reminded me of a teenage memory
    I was on a second date with a guy, and when we met I rushed up to him and gave him a hug

    he totally froze
    And I felt awful.As though I had done something wrong
    I guess I had really
    he was not the spontaneous kissy huggy type in public and i guess I embarrassed him

  82.  #83Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:55 am

    For clarification I used the wrong word “act.” Truly I feel both ways so I could exhibit either side of me to him, I’m trying to choose which side feels more authentic. Please strike the word “act” it means something different here on the blog than what I meant. I didnt mean it as I would be acting inauthentically. 🙂

  83.  #84Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 7:56 am

    I have an interview from CCarter I believe where the guy shares that a man will have sex anywhere, including between the bookshelves at the library but will feel ewwwww if you try to kiss him in public.

    Men are different around this PDA thing because many of them are into being macho man in public. He might be afraid of his guy friends teasing him when you are not there. Men can be brutal to each other.

  84.  #85Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 7:57 am

    seahorse: 🙂 You make me smile.

    But one thing is for certain (from my own experience anyway), the more work we do on ourselves, the deeper we go, the more difficult the question we ask our heart, the more work and questions we find.

    That is why I am a work in progress and hope to always be one. If I stop working, stop asking the tough questions, stop checking in with my heart, well…I’ll just stop. And I don’t want to stop. I want the work because it makes me a better person.

    I’ve been working on me since I was about 25 years old or so. But if you had asked me at 20, I would have told you I knew myself very, very well and that there was nothing left for me to learn. Thank G0D I didn’t believe me!!! 🙂

    Much Love,

  85.  #86ruth on June 20, 2013 at 7:57 am

    And its relevant as one of my massive triggers is physical rejection

  86.  #87Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Are you feeling happy? Yes and No.

    Are you feeling aloof? No.

    Are you feeling needy? Yes.

    Are you feeling confident? No.

    Are you feeling attached to the outcome? Yes.

    Are you feeling rock-star? No.

    Now what?

  87.  #88Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 8:00 am

    FW – for the record – other than the one time that we were at the theatre together, he has always held my hand and kissed me in public. He has never been afraid of PDA. That said, I would never do this because we are going to be in an office tomorrow.

    When I said squeal and jump in his arms it was more of a metaphor of how I would be when I saw him, not literally. Sorry for any confusion. I just meant being super enthusiastic/happy to see him……instead of confused……or frustrated…..or whatever.

    I am all of those things, so its hard to decide how to exhibit that tomorrow.

  88.  #89Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 8:03 am

    Elsie – I understand what you are saying about the word ACT. But if I may, I would just like to point out that “because I dont want him to think” still kinda feeds into the mindset of “trying to please” or “seeking approval” which is what I believe ACT also suggests.

    Please bear in that sometimes things do fly below the radar of our conscious. The words we choose is one way that identifies these things. Another is the way we act.

  89.  #90Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 8:08 am

    Elsie: Almost your entire comment to me was you trying to figure out what he will think and what his actions say about what he thinks and what he would think if he were in your shoes and what he does think.

    I think you should just squeal and jump into his arms and invite him over. Based on your responses, I think that is exactly what you want to do. In the meantime, you might try getting out of his head and trying to figure out what he thinks or will think and why. 🙂 I’m just saying that because it’s absolutely impossible for you to know what he is truly thinking about seeing you again.

    Do what feels good to you. I’m getting the impression that rowing the boat (as long as he says yes) feels the best to you in this moment. Maybe he can row it the next day.

    Just keep in mind that you are training him to know that you will be rowing this boat at certain times and that you will be initiating how the two of you will spend your time together when you’ve been apart for a while. He’ll see you initiate and (even if he likes it…he did say he wanted you to tell him what you want), he’ll expect it in the future as well.

    Personally, I let J row most of the time and I don’t think I rowed even once for the first 3 or 4 years together. Now, I surprise him with it on occasion. He never expects it but does love the surprise.

    Much Love,

  90.  #91Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 8:08 am

    Elsie I absolutely loved Dominique?’s “cauldron of emotions” expression and honestly believe I would tell him that “I am feeling an intense desire and unstoppable passion to jump on top of him”. I think I would expriment with whispering it slowly in his ear right in the office and let him imagine having his way with me later.

    This time I believe is great to experiment and look for his emotional triggers.

  91.  #92seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Elsie- I would feel better walking away. Resting my mind and feeling my feelings. Marinating on why I would spend my beautiful energy on this. It feels like a lot of really hard work.I would do it with love, not a mean bone in my body about it. I would answer my questions of my self first. If he is there to help, cool beans, if not…………….. cry my tears and feel it all and then…………… be happy. And look at mens bottoms!;)

    Thats what I did and am doing right now. I am asking the questions and learning about my triggers and the things that make me go hmmmmmm…………… I feel really good Elsie. It’s times a million and I had no idea. I matter to me.He wasn’t a bad guy, just not my guy. A lot of what you are writing and thinking here triggers me and helps me, THANK YOU Elsie!

  92.  #93ruth on June 20, 2013 at 8:12 am

    I LOVE that

    “look at mens bottoms”
    I feel all giggly reading it

    I might just walk right on into town and do that

    he he he

  93.  #94Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 8:13 am

    FW – Fair enough. Thats a good comment and good insight.

    I think I am worried about what he will think if I dont act all giddy to see him, and I am worried about what he will think/do if I act aloof and give him space.

    I want to do what is right for me AND him.

    Ok. Here is a thought. After listening to this book Attached I want him to know that I TRULY dont mind him needing space or whatever as avoidant attached person that I think he is – he just needs independence and space. I DO NOT want to change that. His independence is what attracted me to him because my ex depended on me for everything (finanically etc.) So I truly do NOT want to change him. I love that he is his own person, and even needs space, etc. That is really super ok with me.

    But as an anxious attached person, I just need to be reassured that in the times that he is in his space he still is in the relationship and loves me.

    So, I want to honor my feelings, AND his feelings.

    Man, honestly?…..I would love to sit down and have a conversation with him about that book I read, and about how I understand what he needs a lot better now and what I need a lot better now…

    ….well, I’ve gotten off track I guess here in my rambling…..I still dont know what to do about tomorrow.

  94.  #95Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 8:15 am

    LOL. So, I have one in the corner to jump him (Mercedes) and one to walk away (seahorse.)

    LOL – Maybe I should just take a poll since I obviously cant figure out my own emotions and life. LOL!!!!!

    Seahorse – thank you for saying that i’m helping you. Sometimes I feel like I just drone on and on with the same problems, and I feel like I dont want to monopolize the board here, etc.

  95.  #96seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Elsie- Be careful of my advice. I feel like I projected on your situation. wow…………. breathing low…………….

  96.  #97Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Elsie I believe 92 is great because you seem to be touching on your truth.

  97.  #98seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:18 am

    How about Elsie, just go look at mens bottoms?? hehehehehhehehe In all their infinite variety….. Lovely thought….hahahahah!!! Right Ruth???

  98.  #99Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Elsie: My advice is to jump on him because I think that is what you really want to do.

    Personally, there is no way I would be jumping up on a man and inviting him over while being all excited after he hasn’t called or text me while I was on my trip out of town.

    But that’s me. For you, the prevailing desire seems to be to jump on him and make sure he doesn’t think you didn’t miss him and to make sure he knows you love him.

    You wrote this: ” I am also afraid that if I dont tell him that he will think I’m not interested for some reason”

    And I personally cannot imagine this man thinking you are not interested. I think you’ve proven your interest many, many times.

    Much Love,

  99.  #100ruth on June 20, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Not only shall I look at bottoms

    I shall buy frilly underwear too

    he he

  100.  #101Mel on June 20, 2013 at 8:24 am


    So from your response, I can see that acting all “aloof” would probably not be coming from an authentic place.

    I am going to cut and paste a script I actually used once. Before I met my man’s kids, I only saw him every other week (when he was kid-free). I was CD-ing a little, but he was my obvious favorite and it didn’t feel good to go so long between visits.

    “I’m feeling a little lost in the shuffle. I’m feeling a little needy even. And I hate feeling needy because I like to think of myself as a very independent person and I hate to admit that I need anything. But I do. I’m just a girl, after all. And girls want to be kissed and cuddled and smiled at and talked to in real life…. and I’m feeling really disconnected right now. I don’t want to go a whole week without touches or laughing or communication or fun. And I’m feeling kind of angry at myself for wanting this, because the logical part of me knows how busy you are (and how busy I am) and the last thing I want to be is needy or demanding. But meh. The girl in me will not respond to logic, despite my best efforts to convince her otherwise. She wants what she wants; she feels what she feels.

    No matter how many times I put on my running shoes or ballet slippers or distract myself, the feelings persist. So I’ve decided to feel them and express them and put them out into the universe. So there you have it. I miss you. I guess I’m not as independent as I thought. And somehow that feels a little like relief.

    I feel vulnerable even sending this… but I just felt like I had to listen to my heart today. I’m not sure how to solve this, because I know it’s complicated. There’s got to be some sort of solution though. What do you think?”

  101.  #102s. on June 20, 2013 at 8:24 am

    thank you femininewoman.

  102.  #103seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Ruth- Bras and/or teddies………… with soft lace! And dark sunglasses so the men don’t know you are looking. Only when you want them to, you can do the sexy lowering of the glasses as your eyes peep over and wink at the man………………. giggling!!!!! That sounds awesome!

  103.  #104ruth on June 20, 2013 at 8:29 am

    he he Seahorse, oh yes

    Bras and pretty knickers
    And hold up stockings

    To wear at work

    Noone knows but me

  104.  #105Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Great Ruth and Seahorse! A group of men just walked down the hall in front of my office to a meeting in the conference room. Almost single file. Guess where my eyes went? Yeah…not what I had planned for my day at all!! 🙂 hahahahah!!!!

    Much Love,

  105.  #106ruth on June 20, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Thats is an awesome script \Mel

    So what did he say?

  106.  #107Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 8:30 am

    “how I understand what he needs a lot better now and what I need a lot better now…”

    I am seeing where this could be good, just not to necessarily talk about the book.

    Share about the time apart and how you spent some time getting intimate with yourself, finding out about yourself and what you need to feel really loved. Maybe share an example of something that would paint a picture for him.

  107.  #108ruth on June 20, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Now look what you have started Seahorse


  108.  #109April Rose on June 20, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Hello Mel 🙂

  109.  #110April Rose on June 20, 2013 at 8:39 am

    “I’m just a girl, after all. And girls want to be kissed and cuddled and smiled at and talked to in real life…. and I’m feeling really disconnected right now.”

    This is great.
    The one tweak I want to make is to take out the word ‘just’, from Rori’s “I’m just a girl here”. To me it sounds like a diminishing of/apology for being female.
    I’m going to experiment more with saying “I’m a girrrl” with a soft, knowing smile.

    In my mind I’m saying “I’m a girrl, and don’t ya just want me!”

  110.  #111Mel on June 20, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Thanks FW. 🙂

  111.  #112April Rose on June 20, 2013 at 8:41 am

    I have always wanted to wear the most fabulous, elegant and sexy and EXPENSIVE underwear. And have nobody know but me!

  112.  #113seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Ahhhhhh!!!!!!! That sounds delicious Ruth!!!!!! Oh I love that!

    heheheehehehe……..Mercedes! Bottoms!!! Mens bottoms! I had no idea how fascinating a mans bottom could be to me. Not only the pert ones but ALL OF THEM! Holy Cow!! And they are everywhere for my pleasure! How kind of them……… hahahahah!

  113.  #114seahorse on June 20, 2013 at 8:48 am

    Mel, That was beautiful! thank you for sharing:)

  114.  #115Mel on June 20, 2013 at 8:48 am


    He responded warmly. He said he was feeling a little mopey and was missing me a lot during our “off weeks” as well. He proposed a short coffee date the next day (short so that his son could babysit) and gave me lots of snuggles. He said he was glad that I could share how I felt with him. He said he would work on a solution.

    It wasn’t instant, but I think he started to think about introducing me to his kids after this.

    But honestly, It was just something I needed to say. An acknowledgement of what I was feeling and what I need in a relationship.

    Sure, I would have felt sad if he was like: Sorry, this is all I am able to give right now…

    But I would have accepted that as an answer. And I was ready to keep riding on my horse until I had what I wanted.

    It’s moments like this that reveal the truth of things. That was MY truth, but I was willing to accept that it may not have been his. And I felt like that would propel me forward regardless.

  115.  #116Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 8:52 am

    Mel – did you say that script or email it? What happened when you said it? I’m so curious…

  116.  #117Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:05 am

    I see Mel saying that directly to him!!

  117.  #118s. on June 20, 2013 at 9:10 am

    well, i get the feeling that deep inside you you really know what you want to do. Maybe you are afraid doing it but you know. I am having the same doubts about my action choices very often but now that i read someones else case i feel more clear-mind.
    Anyway, you said: “I think I am worried about what he will think if I dont act all giddy to see him, and I am worried about what he will think/do if I act aloof and give him space.
    I want to do what is right for me AND him.”
    What i see on this sentence is that you are in a some kind of panic to DO the right thing. I don’t understand why YOU have to DO this, why you have to DO anything so urgently and why you took all this responsibility of how things are going to develop.
    If we accept Rori’s tools -and i agree with her on this, then i think that this is the job of your man> to think what to DO that will be right for both of you, and take this responsibility. You can react on this but i guess its better not act. You already seem to be feeling anxious and worried taking this responsibility. Maybe its because its not your job to decide. You can decide what to do for your self according to how you feel about the situation and about him.
    On the other hand, if you really want to DO call him over and show him your affection, then do it but do it for yourself, because that makes you happy at that moment. Not for him to respond in a specific way or to feel love for you. And then you can observe the situation and value your choice accordingly. You seem lost in an ocean of possible results and reaction from him. You never know exactly how it will come out unless you let it unfold. Let life surprise you, maybe also let him surprise you either positive or negative. You know that you will be ok with either option because the options are infinite and they teach you things. You can even think if you have been in similar situation before and how you handle it. And if you got the result you wanted. I believe that if happened more than once before then you follow a pattern, and the result has more to do with your pattern than with your man.
    Anyway, with either result you will be relieved and wiser, so it doesn’t really matter. Just don’t be strict with yourself and don’t blame yourself for whatever happen. I think it doesn’t work if both people simultaneously are anxious and do things or calm and receive. One is doing and the other receiving for the balance of the situation. Why don’t you be on the receiving end?and do whatever you like for yourself?

  118.  #119Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 9:14 am

    s. – Thank you for your response.

    You seem lost in an ocean of possible results and reaction from him.

    I am stunned at that sentence, because that is EXACTLY how I feel. EXACTLY.

    My insides tell me to just tell him how I feel. But then they tell me that they are upset that he hasnt contacted me. Then they tell me that what I’ve done in the past hasnt worked, and I should follow Rori’s advice and lean back even though that doesnt feel authentic to me.


  119.  #120s. on June 20, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Elsie, I hope you don’t mind that i gave you my opinion! i don’t know you and your situations, but i hope i help you in someway. Love and kisses..sofie@

  120.  #121Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Elsie Mel said “I feel vulnerable even sending this”.

  121.  #122Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 9:18 am

    S: I love your comment 116. I absolutely LOVE it!

    Especially this part about deciding on our reactions rather than taking the initial action:

    “If we accept Rori’s tools -and i agree with her on this, then i think that this is the job of your man> to think what to DO that will be right for both of you, and take this responsibility. You can react on this but i guess its better not act. You already seem to be feeling anxious and worried taking this responsibility. Maybe its because its not your job to decide. You can decide what to do for your self according to how you feel about the situation and about him.”

    Really good stuff.

    Much Love,

  122.  #123Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Is it just me, or is this stuff hard to understand?

    everyone is telling me to figure out my feelings and be authentic. But if the decision I come to is that I want to tell him how much I miss him, then Rori would say, no, you need to lean back if he hasnt made effort while you were gone, etc.

    Its so confusing to me. Sorry, not trying to be difficult or argumentative, I’m just TRULY trying to understand how to be authentic and follow Rori if both are so different?

  123.  #124Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:26 am

    I love S’s response also and how she highlighted all the do’s.

    I love Mel’s feeling message and kinda sense that saying something like this would cause Elsie to scare herself. Reason being that she would be looking square in her own face.

    Elsie I would use a combination of Mel’s and my own feelings and write a script. I encourage you to practice the script here. Full on with hand over your heart and even saying it in front of a mirror. You might feel like vomiting after but you will have practiced and triggered yourself so when you face him you are already clear on how it might feel.

  124.  #125Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Rori would say, no, you need to lean back if he hasnt made effort while you were gone.

    I am not so sure about that. I believe she would tell you to be prepared to share fms when he leans towards you which he likely will.

  125.  #126Indigo on June 20, 2013 at 9:29 am


    I hope you don’t mind me commenting, but honestly what I would do if I truly didn’t know, was just keep experimenting with doing different things until I *did* know.

    Lean forward, tell him you miss him, invite him over and see how that feels.

    For me personally, when the “leaning forward/leaning back” thing didn’t make sense, I kept experimenting until it did make sense. To ME. In my body. Until I had a real in body experience of how different things felt, and could be confident in my own ability to do what would work out best for me.

    I was also really slow to learn all this stuff in some ways 🙂

  126.  #127Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Elsie: “then Rori would say, no, you need to lean back if he hasnt made effort while you were gone, etc.”

    I don’t think she would say that at all. Rori advocates leaning forward if you can rock star it. It’s when you’re coming from a place of neediness that she suggests you lean back.

    It actually sounds more like me to say “lean back since he hasn’t made any effort” than Rori. lol!

    Much Love,

  127.  #128Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:31 am

    For all you know he is anxiously awaiting your return. I remember Dominique sharing a story about K not reaching out to her while she was gone and how hurt she felt. But all that melted when they did reconnect.

    Elsie you have to find a way to let him know that you mostly need his energy coming towards you to feel connected.

  128.  #129s. on June 20, 2013 at 9:33 am

    it doeasn’t feel authentic because it is not. You recognize your old self doing the things that don’t work. But you try now to change your old patterns so a new you is coming out of this. Its still you authentically but you don’t feel cosy about this cause its new.
    I tell you i get crazy with my thoughts and my fantasy about how things would go. Its all in the mind. What matters is to observe the results and not to be afraid to play with new techniques and develop your old ones. Just imagine what is the best version of yourself you would like to reach and what you want for your life and then let all this fantasy to give you the right way to reach this. If your old self comes up and you continue doing things that don;t work for you, you will be in a better self awareness now to recognize it and decide if what you did actually worked. So next time you will try the other way. Just observe yourself without blaming it. Its chaotic at the beginning but little by little the picture gets clearer. we feel we can control someone elses reactions but its a myth. we set yourself for dissapointment if we get stuck on a specific way things will have to go. And i also have seen from my experiences that when i forget the situation, i mean somehow release it, like to accept the fact that i don’t know what to do so i do nothing, and refocus on me and my life and just continue forward my life, then after a while the situation appears itself on my life in a way i wished! or it doesn’t matter anymore for me because i have forgotten about it already!

  129.  #130Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:40 am

    I want to comment on Heart’s post but feel challenged about the best way to respond.

    I appreciate Rori and her tools. I know she has said it is not a way of life but more something to experiment with. I have seen where she encouraged people to go inside to find their own answers rather than depending on her.

    I kinda see her work as a roadmap with props along the way. The props are for women to choose from the best ones that they feel fit with them and their circumstances. Like I feel more comfortable with thinking about I am All That rather than I am the Yummy Pie. Yummy Pie feels juvenile to me. That it kinds of make my mouth water just thinking about it.

    I like to focus on the good. That has helped me to re-wire my brain from the normal pattern of criticism. I like to think I can do this and put energy behind the thought that this stuff works. The thousand who have gotten great results from her work and the work of other similar coaches is enough proof to me that I can do this. My challenge is mostly around the belief “this stuff works”.

    I am choosing to work on my belief because it helps me to change my beliefs in other areas of my life.

  130.  #131Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 9:43 am

    I was really curious about a man’s perspective on this so I asked J.

    Me: “If a woman goes away on a trip and her boyfriend/husband doesn’t call or send any text messages while she was gone, do you think he’s hoping she will initiate the next contact when she returns?”

    J: “No, he’s not hoping for it. He knows she will and he’s just taking as much alone time as he can before she does it.”

    Me: “And what happens if she doesn’t?”

    J: “His ego will be bruised. He’ll wonder if something is wrong and he’ll call her.”

    Me: “What happens if she does initiate the contact?”

    J: “He’ll think nothing of it and life will go on as usual. Nothing will change.”

    Me: “I don’t know if I like those words ‘nothing will change'”

    J: “Depends on whether or not anything needs to change.”

    Me: “Ahhhh…”

    J: “You women think too much. 😉 ”

    So…that’s just one man’s perspective and I doubt he’s claiming to speak for his entire species. But maybe he is. lol

    Much Love,

  131.  #132April Rose on June 20, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “I missed you. And I felt puzzled what to do with those feelings. Part of me wants to leap all over you like a puppy dog. Another part of me doesn’t want to make the first move.”

  132.  #133Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 9:49 am

    His ego will be bruised – BINGO

    Which is the reason why it is a great thing that men have big egos that we can massage. Once it gets used to our massaging he could get addicted/obsessed. Then he is where he wants to be and where he wants you to be.

    Under the spell of a seducing siren who has absolute power over him and him loving to have his heart melted.

  133.  #134Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 9:58 am

    FW – 131: That’s a beautiful way to put it!

    You notice how J said “He’s expecting her to”? EXPECTING. Confident that she will lean forward. Cocky even.

    “Oh…I don’t have to worry about anything. She’ll contact me. For now, I’m going to kick back and enjoy the quiet.”

    I don’t like that. I don’t know if that’s what he’s thinking while he’s “expecting” that call but it’s what I project there and I don’t like it at all.

    J will be lucky if he EVER gets a phone call from me first again!! LOL!

    Much Love,

  134.  #135Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 9:58 am

    LOL. OMG. Mercedes.

    I laughed out loud at J’s response.

    I can ABSOLUTELY see GS saying that…..except for one part. If she didnt reach out to him, he would be like….huh, guess she has some stuff to do and we’ll talk later. Whatevs.

    You women think too much. LOL. How hysterical is that?! I think he may be totally right.

    GS was mostly very open to me talking to him when I called – except towards the end of the very first call. I’m sure he hasnt called me/texted me because he is relishing his alone time that he loves and figures, if she needs me she will call me. I bet he thinks that 100%.

    I’m sorry Mercedes, but I literally laughed out loud at your post. I seriously think that may be the case. I’m just overthinking all of this. LOL.

  135.  #136Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 10:00 am

    LOL. No Mercedes!!!! Call him!

    I guarantee when I get back in the office, GS will call me first when he sees I’m there. I know it. 100%.

    Its not that he doesnt want to talk to me, I know he will call me to chit chat about the trip, etc.

    My question is – at that point, after he has called me, do I go over there, or if he is in my cubicle, do I say to him…..ahh!!!!! I totally missed you and want to have some alone time and fun with you!? Or if he doesnt say anything then lean back?

  136.  #137Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 10:01 am

    I’m wondering what you think about J’s comment that we THINK too much. Doesnt he understand that without all that “thinking” you and he wouldnt even be together? LOL!!!

  137.  #138s. on June 20, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Because i feel how difficult is for you to understand new standards of relating and mostly to change old ways of behaving, i can share with you what I would think would be my best choice in a situation like this.
    I might see him but i would try to not be so enthusiastic, just be happy and attended. I would try to pay attention to my feelings at the moments with him and try somehow to let him know what i felt exactly by not calling me and that i am not feeling easy to initiate contact so i would be feeling more relaxed with him if he does this so for us. And you will see his reaction. I know it sounds scary,(at least for me because i am the person that i was so afraid of rejection in every way) but i feel that at least, even if you don’t get the answer you wished, you will have an additional information about him and about the situation, you will be more aware of how you feel when you ARE with him and also you will have shared with him your feelings upon the situation so next time you will feel the same panic of initiating contact because he knows you don’t like it. also, if you look so enthusiastic seeing him, it looks to me like you are self sabotaging yourself here by pretending that everything is ok, that the fact that didn;t call you all this time have little value for you which is not true. So, you will basically train him not to calling you often and believe me then you will have to work even harder to change this.

  138.  #139Veronica on June 20, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Seahorse : ) 48 – Imagining doing that in front of a man – gorgeousness! I would feel like I had so much inner power going on if I did that.

    No wonder the NVs are so fierce – all that loveliness to protect; only the loveliness can take care of itself.
    Sweet Veronica hugs to you!

  139.  #140Shina on June 20, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Boundaries, requirements, whatever we call them…. well for me I have “boundaries” with my family/friends and I have what I call “pre-requisites” for the men who I would consider for a romantic relationship. For instance, before I became engaged to my FI (“fiance”) I used to tell my friends that a man has to have some of the basic qualifying characteristics (“pre-requisites”) before I would even consider going on a date with him. It’s very similar to when students apply for college, if you want to attend an ivy league school than you need to have studied hard with good grades, scored well on your SATs, done the right/enough extracurricular activities to show your character and abilities, etc. It’s no different when considering a man for a date – he has a good job and works hard (like good grades), he is family oriented and close to his family and has good friends for support, he is in the right place in his life for marriage, he knows how to be a good partner and has relationship skills, etc. Of course, if I have these types of requirements than of needless to say, I must have them in my own life as well. If a romantic prospect shows up who does not have the basic pre-requisites that I look for, than it’s simple, I do not go on a date with him and I do not allow him into my personal life. (same way if you don’t have the proper pre-requisites than you cannot get accepted into college)

    With family and friends, I have boundaries and not requirements. For instance, my mother tends to “dump” her emotional distress and anxiety onto me whenever she feels overwhelmed with what’s going on in her life. I love her and want her to be an active part of my life, but I feel HORRIBLE everytime she calls me or “pops” over to my house – just to vent and dump all her worries/stress onto me. I absolutely hate it, and I have made it clear to her that I feel really bad and depressed when she does that which makes me NOT want to talk to her or have her in my life. So she now understands that if she’s feeling stressed out and needs to rant, I am NOT available for that (she has friends she can turn to) and if she does do it, that I will excuse myself from the room/phone, etc. and not be around her until she can get to a better place emotionally.

    This is just my take, but I feel “boundaries” are for everyday interaction and it’s like having a structure/guideline (almost like an operating manual) for people who already in your life so that they know what works for you and what doesn’t, so they know how to get along with you the best. Things that Mercedes listed as boundaries that Rori considers requirements (i.e. someone who does not cheat or have female friends behind your back) to me are the “pre-requisites” that a man has to have in his character already in order for me to even consider accepting a date with him and opening my heart up to a connection. To me, something like that is not a boundary issue but more basic like, “hey if you don’t have good grades (like mostly D’s/F’s) than you will not get into Harvard.” NOT to make myself sound all elitist or anything, but since I work so hard on my own personal growth and learning the necessary relationship skills to be a damn good partner, than I also require that the man I will be romantically involved in has also has a similar background who also works hard on his own growth/relationship skills.

  140.  #141Turquoise on June 20, 2013 at 10:14 am


    Have you considered just being spontaneous and seeing how it goes? To feel out how things seem between you…. to give him a chance to surprise you with the fact that he may already have plans to be with you this weekend? Do you only have a few minutes to see him that this all has to be predetermined… or can you just go with the flow and see what happens?

    I honestly believe it’s best to mirror behavior. If he’s being distant and pulling away, and you show up all enthusiastic and wanting him, he may retreat further, feeling his attempt at distance hasn’t been enough.

    One of the most true things I’ve ever read was that if a man wants to spend time with you, he will. We don’t need to pine or fret about that… if he wants to spend time with you, he will do all that he can to make that happen. Even if he thought you were tired and wanted time with your kids, if he really wants to be with you, you will know it.

    If you still don’t know how you feel tomorrow… don’t do anything, just smile, be warm and friendly, and see what he wants to do. I have found that when men do respond to our leaning forward, a few days later, we are right back to feeling unsure and frustrated, but then it’s worse because we feel we had this great weekend, and how can he still be distant?

  141.  #142Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.

    — Helen Keller

  142.  #143Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Oh Elsie…J and I did not at all get back together by me “thinking”. No way! That time in my life was all feeling and holding to boundaries and taking care of myself and going out into the world in search of love. And it was about HIM working on himself to ensure he would never hurt me again. Wow…no….it had nothing to do with me doing “all that thinking” at all.

    J’s comment was because he knows I’m on the blog and we’re a bunch of women discussing an issue with a man and he thinks we think too much (or chose the word “think” over “talk”. haha!). For him, it’s much easier than that. “Do whatever. It doesn’t matter.” In his mind, we over-analyze it all. And I tend to agree with him.

    As far as “call him”…I don’t generally do that. But I’ve also never been away on a trip when he didn’t call me. He calls me every night that we can’t be together so we can say goodnight. I think I’ll let him continue to do that. I was joking though about the “I may never call him first again” part. 🙂 I’m sure I will continue with business as usual even knowing that if it has been a long time in between calls, he might be “expecting” it. lol

    But I still hate the thought of a man not calling because he “expects” her too and he’s just “taking as much alone time as he can get before he does it”. That feels rude to me…or like he’s playing games or something. Like he’s sooooo confident she’ll call that he doesn’t have to do anything to show HER that HE’S thinking of her!

    Thankfully J was commenting on what he thinks it means based on the fact that this boyfriend/husband hasn’t already called. Because if he was applying that to our relationship, we’d have words tonight! LOL!

    Much Love,

  143.  #144Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Elsie I would so make that call go to voicemail. Even if J is wrong I would want to play and experiment with it. Men call other men cocky. Let the sexual tension build into intoxicating desire.

    We think too much yes many times because we don’t give them reason and the space to think.

  144.  #145MovingMagic on June 20, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Hi ladies! What an awesome topic-boundaries. Whoo. I feel like that’s a constant work in progress for me. The journey toward understanding (it’s on going) has its many ups & downs, & is constantly unfolding. I’m like a butterfly in that way. Slowly opening my wings to reveal so many amazingly vibrant colors & patterns. It’s so much more beautiful when I look at it like that. 🙂

  145.  #146Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Femininewoman – 82 – I think this totally depends on the guy. There are many if not most men who would NOT want to have sex anywhere and certainly NOT with just anyone. Though there are some who would.

    And there are plenty of men who are comfortable with PDA.

    I realize you are just posting something you read which does not necessarily reflect your views.


  146.  #147Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 10:23 am

    hhhhhhmmmm Shina

  147.  #148s. on June 20, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Ohh Mercedes!!!!! i really liked the dialogue on your comment 128! So its true that men get trained by our behavior. Sometimes it feels to me that they get so relaxed about the routine we give them that they lose their interest and then the fire inside them turn their minds to other mysteries to solve, to understand. When they wonder about you or get panic not to lose you or make you feel bad, they become the sweetest princes!

  148.  #149siren song on June 20, 2013 at 10:26 am

    this post rocks

  149.  #150Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Elsie – 92 – There is no way you can predict how he or anyone else for that matter will respond to you in any given situation. It could be one way one time, and a completely different way another.

    And though I understand you wanting to “do it right”, there is no right way or wrong way.

    It’s ALL about how YOU feel. If you feel like being giddy and happy and jump into his arms, then this is what you do.

    I don’t want to what if with this, for I highly discourage this in all circumstances, yet I will indulge briefly to make a point –

    IF for some/whatever reason, he doesn’t meet your excitement as you would want him to, yes you might feel disappointed, crushed even.

    As much as I would want to encourage releasing expectations, they can still arise. For me too.

    BUT you WILL be able to handle these feelings. You will FEEL them with all you have, LOVE ON THEM, and you will remember that yes, you carried an expectation, and all is still well within YOU because YOU choose it to be this way.

    And then again he might respond just as you would wish it.

    There is NOTHING wrong in leaning forward if it’s genuine, real, authentic.



  150.  #151Veronica on June 20, 2013 at 10:34 am

    More crying today, but a different kind – I realised how hopeless the situation was for me and for him. I was saying it up into the air to him that I’m not doing this to punish him. I’m not good with this situation, can you try to understand even though I can’t tell you?

    And this resolve in me grows – even if we do ever get into contact again, I don’t think I would want to be fb friends. We’d actually have to actively contact each other which I’m starting to see the appeal of. Also, each day I don’t hear from him, I know I’ve made the right decision. For some reason I’m not too convinced that there’ll be contact again and that it would be really good enough to start staying in contact. No judgement on either of us, just a refusal to put hope into this.

    And I know I’m growing, I’m especially different today. The men picked up on it again today, looking me in the eye, one was actively noticing me, I could see him change in front of me. It was especially dear, that happening. And it all had nothing to do with anything romantic, rather it was beautiful human exchanges. The other man just enjoyed talking so much and I just watched and let it happen. My brother is starting to shift too.

    And I noticed that a serious crush of mine from a long way back was getting involved in our particular community and I felt ‘good for him, I’m sure he brings a lot and this will be good for him’. And no attachment to that which I’m so relieved at.

    And my mom is opening up to me too and things seem much calmer around the house. I’m a bit awed that I get to see this and feel it even though I’m still emotional.

    I am so thankful for this blog.

  151.  #152Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Shina: I agree with you so much. The difference for me is that I thought I had all those “prerequisites” when it came to J. Later (much later), I found out that he wasn’t exactly the person I thought he was and I had nothing I thought I had.

    When we got back together, it was after he spent about a year working on himself and becoming that man he always told me he was. During this time is when I verbalized my boundaries…or “prerequisites” or “requirements” or whatever word we want to use here. I’ll even use the word “rules” or “demands”…doesn’t matter to me. The point is that I communicated where I stood to him. and that communication felt strong and powerful and came from my heart.

    There have been times with family too where I communicated these things to them. And I feel good about that. And all of them come from my heart and display my true, honest NEEDS.

    These “boundaries” were always, always things I wanted/needed but they were things I wasn’t always getting (although I thought I was many of them). So…they were verbalized and there was no room for doubt about how strongly I felt. Those things were never going to happen to me again…or at least I wasn’t going to stick around and try to work it out if they did.

    Other things, like the drug use for example, does have to be said at some point and I prefer it’s said up front before I find myself sitting in that situation. I don’t exactly speak up to new friends when I meet them and say “Oh. By the way. I have this boundary. No pot smoking.” But…when the time comes for us to have people over (especially if we are inviting people who we know smoke a little) we’ll say “No pot though. We don’t smoke and don’t want it at the house.” It doesn’t matter to us what people do on their own time but it does matter that they don’t assume we partake or want to be a part of it or welcome it into our home. They would never know though unless we told them. So we tell them. If someone were to bring it over anyway, that would be crossing a boundary and they would have to leave. But we’d feel good about the fact that they knew up front.

    Anyway…I agree…many times things can be a prerequisite and life can move forward from there. For me, when we were getting back together (and when we first broke up and I was spewing my anger all over him), there were things I felt I needed to say…and I call those things boundaries. But not opposed to using a different word…

    Much Love,

  152.  #153Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 10:44 am

    To add to Miss M’s 129 – From my experience with this, many men if not most wouldn’t even think about it, wouldn’t even notice it’s been two days, three days or more. It’s that boy time thing, so different from ours.

    And then suddenly from seemingly nowhere, he things of you, misses you, and calls.

    That most women think too much, yes indeed. That most men will think we think too much, yes indeed.


  153.  #154Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Dominique you are right. It reminded me that I was at a concert of Saturday and ran into a guy who I hadn’t seen for a while. He walked towards me with such intense macho energy and jumped on me “like a dog in heat” was the best way I could describe it to people who know him. It felt exciting to be grabbed like that but in a second I was ready to claw him off and push him away from me. He even came off the stage in the middle of his performance towards where I was standing on the side and was coming up into my face. We go a long way back so I know this is him and kinda allowed him to be himself but it reminds me that I would not want that kind of energy coming at me all the time.

  154.  #155Femininewoman on June 20, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Veronica I just received this and thought you might appreciate it:-

    20 Symptoms of Awakening!
    By Aine Belton

    1. Knowing that limits (and solutions) lie, not out there, but within.
    2. Seeking to take responsibility, own your shadows, and move towards greater love, compassion and understanding for self and others.
    3. Knowing that your outer-experience is not a random separate occurrence but inextricably linked to your consciousness.
    4. Being more accepting and compassionate to yourself and others as your heart opens to greater unconditional love.
    5. More freely and vulnerably sharing your heart and enjoying the beautiful impact and domino effect that has.
    6. Understanding that being kind is more important than being right.
    7. Developing self-love over an illusory quest for external validation.
    8. Being more willing to ask for help, receive and be supported, relinquishing independence for inter-dependence.
    9. Being willing to face your fears and move beyond them.
    10. Seeking inner connection over outer correction.
    11. Knowing you are inherently unconditionally worthy.
    12. Realizing that things can change in an instant – when you do.
    13. Knowing that integrity is its own reward.
    14. Greeting and acknowledge the divinity in all (Namaste)
    15. Trusting and letting go over trying to control to allow more of life’s magic and divine grace to unfold.
    16. Becoming free of the opinion of others and valuing your truth over being approved.
    17. Realizing it’s not what you say but what you feel, not what you do, but why you do it.
    18. Opening to the magic and miraculous of everyday living and synchronicities being a new norm.
    19. Knowing that you can only serve the highest good of others if you are doing so for yourself.
    20. Experiencing irrepressible explosions of love and joy that want to burst like rainbow showers over everyone you meet.

  155.  #156Shina on June 20, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Hey Mercedes,
    I know exactly what you’re talking about. My FI and I broke-up a few times (I can hear my family saying “ha!” and rolling their eyes ;P) and each time we got back together I began to learn the difference between the whole “boundary” and “pre-requisite/requirement” thing. For instance, I always valued hard work and being able to provide for yourself financially. But when my FI and I met, he was a workaholic (which at first I found very appealing) and initially I believed, “wow this man knows how to work hard and so we will always be able to provide for ourselves” but the more I got to know him and actually had to live with it, I discovered that NOPE! I cannot live with or build a future with someone who was never around. Then I learned that that was my “pre-requisite” – that the man has to have a stable job and works hard BUT has a nice work/life balance. And I learned that my boundary is, I LOVE connecting with and spending quality time with my romantic partner, having that emotional connection and having QT (quality time) is something that I absolutely need (and not just a want/desire) so that became a boundary. If a man is going to be my romantic partner, I need someone who loves spending QT with me and loves doing anything/everything together. Now this is a boundary and not a “pre-requisite” because I would not necessary know if a man is wired to handle this level/type of emotional connection unless we’ve been on a few dates together. The “pre-requisite” for me would be to see what type of work he does/work hours in a week/what his hobbies are, etc. and that would give me insight into his work/life balance and if he spends 80-100 hrs/wk working than I immediately know he’s not for me and would not accept a date from the beginning.

    It sounds like you and J have been on quite the journey together! You’re absolutely right, men are wwwaaaayyy less “complex” in their thinking and super simple in what/how they analyze. Sometimes, I do feel really frustrated at how “simple” (well when I’m angry it feels like he’s a “12 yr. old baby!”) his thinking and processing is when we’re having a difficult conversation/argument. Like THAT is what you came-up with and you’ve decided that was the best way to handle it?! (omg please grow-up! I need a man not a child) I have definitely come to accept and actually appreciate how “simple” men’s way of thinking/processing is. (there are many benefits to this once you get past the initial frustration 😉 )

    But your J sounds like my FI! Hahahahaha my FI doesn’t understand how I can stay on my iPad and read blogs/articles for hours. He grimaces a little when I try to tell him what the topics are about, but since it makes me happy he just nods now. (cause when mama is happy everyone in the family is happy!)

    And the whole drug thing, yeah that’s not even a “pre-requisite” that to me is more standard like “you need to be a human-being and a male.” 😉

  156.  #157Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Shina: 🙂 Yes…we have had quite a journey…both together and apart. I am more than grateful that we were able to heal ourselves to the point where we know we belong together. We’re very lucky as we easily could have given up on us altogether. I almost did…

    Thank you for your sweet words! And congratulations on your engagement!

    Much Love,

  157.  #158Shina on June 20, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Thanks Mercedes! You’re awesome 🙂

  158.  #159Indigo on June 20, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    D reassured me again today. He didn’t intend to perhaps, yet he did.

    It gave me cause to think about Dominique’s words about “boy time”. To him, 2 weeks is nothing. To him, he is sort of “oh yes, of course you’ll have a wonderful time on your trip and we’ll have a nice talk when you get back”. To me, 2 weeks is SO much more than that. Sigh. I realized during the course of our chat that he doesn’t mean to dismiss my sensitivity around this, just that his thoughts are different. Anyway, I feel better now.

    I feel somewhat guilty over a guy I have been CDing, R… On Monday night he cooked me dinner, and I was going to spend the night. He was attentive, but too much so. It felt smothering. It felt like a barnacle clinging to a rock, and now I feel badly for saying that because it sounds ungenerous. I couldn’t take it any more, and I apologized and left to go and sleep in my own bed in the middle of the night. Although his smell is not bad, I don’t 100% like it and it made me think of D’s smell, which I adore (it is a combination of fabric softener and a particular brand of deodorant).

    R phoned me last night and I let it ring and have not phoned him back, and I feel a little guilty doing that. I feel as if I need to end it yet I am putting off having that conversation.

  159.  #160Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Indigo: ” I feel as if I need to end it yet I am putting off having that conversation.” – I don’t really have any advice for this but I hate those conversations too. Worse than that though would maybe be knowing someone was still with me and didn’t want to be. That hurts a lot.

    🙁 I wish there were magic words I could give you to make the conversation easier.

    Much Love,

  160.  #161Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Space. Filled.

    So, while I have been working today….Dominiques words once again ring true.

    And then suddenly from seemingly nowhere, he things of you, misses you, and calls.

    Well, he didnt call, but I just got an email from him. He wrote “How are your meetings going….are you still at XYZ Company?” That was all he wrote, I think because I didnt actually click on the email (once you do that someone knows you have read it, and I thought it best to marinate in this for a while.)

    I’m REALLY feeling how this makes me feel.

    I have better answers now. Yes. I feel MUCH better that he contacted me. I now know how it feels when I wait and he contacts me first – and I like that much better. I feel much more feminine now, and less anxious when he is rowing (even if it is just an email.) I like him taking the lead. It feels good that he emailed me while I was still out at meetings out of town. It feels good that after 48 hours of not talking he has been thinking about me.

    So where does that leave me? I feel like giving him space is what HE needs. I feel like giving him space allows him to do what he needs to do to then do what I NEED.

    Interesting. I love that Dominique says there are no mistakes, just learning here. I’m just learning now from a small email about how I FEEL about all of it.

    Yes, J is probably right Mercedes. I probably think wayyyyy too much about all of this stuff.

    I am going to think about all the different scenarios about tomorrow and how all of those would make me FEEL. Then I am going to do the one that FEELS best …. to ME. 🙂 Not what I think I should do to get him to like me more, etc.

  161.  #162Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    YES!!! Elsie, YES!!! 🙂


  162.  #163Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Dominique – LOL. Dont get too excited yet. I’m sure in a couple of hours, I will be anxious over something new.

    But I havent answered him yet. Not to be playing a game. But I love the moment when he leans in, and then I feel that I sort of have him leaning in to me before I answer and it snaps back. I’m enjoying this FEELING a lot.

  163.  #164Dominique on June 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Elsie – It’s all practice. If you’ve felt this way once, you will feel it again. And this is ALL awesome. Exciting. An adventure of learning new and better feeling ways to BE.


  164.  #165Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I’m writing him back now. Its been almost two hours.
    He did write: Hows it going? Are you at XYZ Corporation?

    I want to write:

    Hey….It’s a lot to get through and either I have a contract worth over xxx or……nothing. LOL.

    I can’t wait to show you some of this, and ask your opinion tomorrow about it Mr. Marketing Expert. 🙂

    How are you doing?

    I *want* to put in something about seeing him tomorrow, but I’m not sure……thoughts?

  165.  #166Indigo on June 20, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Mercedes 158

    Thank you. I feel a little selfish 🙁 You are right though. Tomorrow I think.

  166.  #167Daria on June 20, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Indigo – if I did not agree to exclusivity to this guy i wouldn’t drop him just yet. I feel curious to see what exactly is triggering me to feel turned off… is it my stuff with not receiving or him (and its not his giving too much, it has to be something else that I don’t see you identifiying yet, let alone speaking up about it authentically)

  167.  #168Daria on June 20, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Elsie – yeah I would not say something about tomorrow, and I’d also not say How are you doing…
    I love the second line about Mr Marketing expert

    i would also say it Feels like a lot to get thru, it feels overwhelming or something like that

  168.  #169Daria on June 20, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    im dropping guys who dont step up way faster and easier than before…

    but i feel disappointed it seems a lot of guys are showing up where i need to say No

  169.  #170Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Ok – Daria….

    Why would you not say “how are you doing?” Curious…..I’m interested to know why…

  170.  #171Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Elsie: It seems a little too “business” for me (on both sides). I don’t really see anything wrong with it and have pretty much zero experience with the situation but I’d probably say something like:

    “Hey! You totally made me smile! It feels great to hear from you…I’ve missed you! But yup…still here and VERY excited to get back home!”

    Much Love,

  171.  #172Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    I’m over-analyzing this but, as J says, we women think too much…

    “Hey….It’s a lot to get through and either I have a contract worth over xxx or……nothing. LOL.” – This is all business. Same thing you would say to anyone else. Plus it kind of implies you are struggling. Maybe a hint that it’s too much for you. Not really but just a subconscious thing I think.

    “I can’t wait to show you some of this, and ask your opinion tomorrow about it Mr. Marketing Expert.” – Flirty but…still business. And it lets him know straight up front that you are going to take the lead and come see him and show him what you’ve done at work. He doesn’t need to lean forward, you’ve basically made an appointment to go to him first and discuss your job with him.

    “How are you doing?” – Impersonal. Same thing you could say to anyone you work with.

    I don’t know. This all feels like I’m being picky about it and I don’t want to be. I don’t know why the word “business” keeps popping into my head. Maybe it’s just the “marketing expert” title or knowing that you work together.

    Again…I don’t really believe anything is wrong with what you wrote, it just doesn’t feel personal or “bring him closer” to me. I like the thought of letting him know you’re happy he emailed (“you made me smile”) since you feel so good about him leaning forward. I think positive affirmations on stuff like this could encourage him to do it more often (and sooner). Ignoring the fact that it’s been days without contact seems like it would maybe encourage more of that behavior.

    Anyway…just my over-thinking self over-thinking your email. lol

    Much Love,

  172.  #173Daria on June 20, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Elsie – Rori has mentioned not going into How are You immediately after, as that puts you back into masculine mode – giving him attention – rather than receiving the attention from him

  173.  #174Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Thanks a lot Mercedes – too late!!!! I already sent it. Great. Now I”m upset that I did the wrong thing ….

    I just didnt want to shower him with emotional feeling stuff on work email (thats how he sent that email.) Its not appropriate to say anything else on that because its on a server that ANYONE could see it if they wanted. I cant say I’m happy to see you, or excited to see you etc. So I left it with playful and not serious…..

    And he is THE EXPERT on this stuff, so I just wanted to be playful with that.

    I removed the “how are you” by the way….. 🙂

  174.  #175Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Daria – Thank you for explaining that – I couldnt articulate why I didnt put “how are you” back but that is EXACTLY why I didnt do it – it felt like I was being masculine and not just RECEIVING…..

  175.  #176Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    “Great. Now I”m upset that I did the wrong thing ….”

    Stop it! 🙂 Dominique and I have both talked to you about this… “I did the wrong thing”? Really? Did you?

    I didn’t really see anything wrong with it anyway, remember. I just had thoughts on it. Just me processing what I would do. That doesn’t make it “right” or something YOU should do. I was just thinking through it.

    Please don’t beat yourself up over something just because I would do it differently.

    Much Love,

  176.  #177Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Mercedes – it did seem “business” on his side, but you have to know him to know that this is TOTALLY his way. He wants to know how I”m doing, and this is his way…..

    I was sort of surprised he did it through work email and not a text, but then I thought about it and realized, he probably got back from lunch and started thinking about me and just emailed me.

    He really isnt into texting or calling. Its not what he likes. He likes face to face stuff….or emailing, sometimes texting, but not really.

    I didnt really think that it sounded outside his norm. I thought actually it was sweet that he emailed me at all – he didnt have to email me at all. LOL. If he REALLY wanted space and didnt want to talk to me, he wouldnt have emailed me at all ….

    I’m trying to just do a bit of the Queens Code here along with the Attached book I read… 🙂

  177.  #178Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Business appropriate but still personal? ““Hey! You totally made me smile! It feels great to hear from you! Yup…still here and VERY excited to get back home!””

  178.  #179Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Elsie: I understand. Like I said, just processing how I feel about it. I totally get that I don’t know him at all. I’m not really writing this stuff about him so much…just thinking through what would feel good for ME to say in the same situation.

    Much Love,

  179.  #180Mercedes on June 20, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Actually…J and I did sort of work together. Not really but same industry and met at an industry conference. Used work email to communicate. Would I have said this to him via company email at that time:

    “Hey! You totally made me smile! It feels great to hear from you! Yup…still here and VERY excited to get back home!”

    Yes. I think I would have.

    Would I have said “I missed you!”? Maybe. Not sure about that. Possibly too unprofessional for me at work???? Hmmm….I don’t really know…I wonder now if I ever said anything like that on his work email. Thinking back, I doubt it.

    Much Love,

  180.  #181LittleStar on June 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Ow! Just got broken up with via email! I feel numb!
    I always saw it as me who would end this, cos I’ve been trying to CD and been doing online during, but all the other men have disappeared..and now this..:(
    He says I’m a wonderful person but deserve someone who can focus on me more..
    Every last man has gone and now the one that I really secretly invested in..
    I’m gonna miss him 🙁 I want him to miss me more.

  181.  #182Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Thanks Mercedes – I appreciate your insight always.

    Just got yelled at by my parents (and hung up on as per usual). I have no boundaries with them. Ugh. They are horrible to me. So hateful and horrible. They can not STAND it when I even make a small decision they would not make. They see everything in black and white, and my mom has even said that she does not have “opinions” she is just right and everyone else is wrong. Ugh.

    Then got in a fight with my soon to be ex because he ONCE AGAIN will not do one small thing for me because he doesnt think I need it. He was always telling me that I dont need what I need.

    The last half hour has been horrible.

    Sorry – just needed to vent.

  182.  #183Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    @LittleStar – I’m so sorry……(((hugs)))

    I dont know what to say – did he just want some space, or is it a final final breakup?

  183.  #184sophie on June 20, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    ahhhhhh littlestar i know how that feels x do you know what reading that though i honed right in on the “you deserve someone who can focus on you more” i imagined it as a mantra “i deserve someone who can focus on me more”. today all day ive been saying something really great is just around the corner….

  184.  #185sophie on June 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    possibly not helpful right now but it leaped at me (((hugs)))

  185.  #186Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    @LittleStar – broken up via EMAIL…..I guess I just re-read that. Ouch. That is horrible. Weak Sauce. I cant believe that. How long did you go out with him?

  186.  #187BeLoved on June 20, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    I noticed today that I often experience life as scenes, with voids in between scenes.
    The scenes didn’t really connect, one to the other. It felt like stop/start/stop/start.
    I would feel a flurry of feelings, and prepare for the next.
    Today, I resisted all urges to “talk” with C, to ruminate and revisit yesterday. It felt smooth and easy and natural and, unexpected he opened up and talked a lot more about himself than he usually does (nothing deep, just fun stories).
    I felt myself gasp and freeze a little, I can only just shake my head at myself for building up illusions and then he shows me he isn’t who I think at all…
    I felt sensation in my belly, something like fear…”I don’t know/I was mistaken/wrong”
    I wonder if it’s possible that when fantasy clashes with reality, it could tickle, feel good and soft like cotton balls or bunny fur instead?

    Today I saw life more as a flow…instead of believing that there was some “pattern” to dissolve or prepare for or guard against or heal, I just saw it as, sometimes we have funky, off-kilter, weird days and yesterday was just off. No big thing. Ebb and flow and grace and ease.

    I remember to keep coming back to what I want to feel, to create,
    “It feels like ease, it feels like grace. Like home, it feels true, it feels real, it feels joyful and expansive, it feels relaxed, confident, secure, it feels connected…”

  187.  #188Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    i just read this on facebook:

    Brad Pitt about His Wife

    A Secret of Love

    My wife got sick. She was constantly nervous because of problems at work, personal life, her failures and problems with children. She has lost 30 pounds and weighted about 90 pounds in her 35 years. She got very skinny, and was constantly crying. She was not a happy woman. She had suffered from continuing headaches, heart pain and jammed nerves in her back and ribs. She did not sleep well, falling asleep only in the morning and got tired very quickly during the day. Our relationship was on the verge of break up. Her beauty was leaving her somewhere, she had bags under her eyes, she was poking her head, and stopped taking care of herself. She refused to shoot the films and rejected any role. I lost hope and thought that we’ll get divorced soon… But then I decided to act on it. After all I’ve got the most beautiful woman on the earth. She is the ideal of more than half of men and women on earth, and I was the one allowed to fall asleep next to her and to hug her shoulders. I began to pepper her with flowers, kisses and complements. I surprised her and pleased every minute. I gave her lots of gifts and lived just for her. I spoke in public only about her. I incorporated all themes in her direction. I praised her in front of her own and our mutual friends. You won’t believe, but she has blossomed. She became even better than before. She gained weight, was no longer nervous and she loved me even more than ever. I had no clue that she CAN love that much.

    And then I realized one thing: “”The woman is the reflection of her man””

  188.  #189Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Lisa – This is exactly what I’ve been saying. Your happiness is directly related to those around you – they can impact your happiness – my humble opinion is that it is folly to think that the ones you love dont have the keys to a good part of your happiness. Of course, then you have the choice, if someone is not making you happy to leave, but I completely agree with this, and think a great deal now of Brad Pitt as a husband. 🙂 Thanks for sharing.

  189.  #190Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    @ Elsie

    True!!! and though I also know through my own work.. that one has to really love themselves too! But I also know that when a man does what Brad finally did…. a woman just blossoms..

    I think the tools help with that.. and I agree with what you said… and I know that it is up to me, to chose who I hang around with… and that is where boundaries come in…

    Life sure it a journey!

    Thanks Elsie again! <3 sending you love and hugs!

  190.  #191Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    I feel sad b/c I don’t have more female friends to hang out with..

    I feel sad b/c I would like to have more circle dating time with others… even men.. that are not sexual…

    I feel tied down to home and children and responsibilities…and though I do circle date when I go out… I’d love to have the funds to do more for myself…

    Just venting.. <3

  191.  #192Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    @Lisa – I totally understand where you are coming from. I’m sorry you feel that way. It sounds as if you and I are in a similar boat. May I ask if you were married, and if so for how long? You also said you have children – and are doing it all alone, right?

    I totally understand your feelings. Its really hard. I will be fine financially in a few years, but right now, I have to dig myself out of a problem that I didnt create, which is beyond frustrating.

    Also, Lisa, can I ask how old you are?

  192.  #193Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 7:07 pm


    Yes, we are in a similar boat…and I’m 50…

    and I’ve tried to dig myself out of the hole financially for 8 years… and dealing with someone that is mentally and physically challenged is soooo hard… even as an ex…

    I’m so exhausted most all of the time, that I don’t do anything as well as I could, if I was rested and had time to me… I’m sure I could…

    I was married and that was 20 years ago it ended… he was an alcoholic / abuser… that beat me up badly… long story…

    I have two children, one is grown and in college… the other is almost 9… and she is a handful but her father wasn’t my husband.. we never married , Thank God! but I put up with his emotional abuse for 10 years.. then I had him tested and he was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome… another long story.

    I just can’t help but think that someone as passionate and energetic and positive and motivated as I am should be able to make a living and feel more stable on her own.. I’m so independent and self sufficient… but also have a hearing loss issue.. Something tells me it is my self worth issues.. ???

    Ok enough of that.. I feel weird telling all of this, it sounds like I’m a whinny victim…

    Big Hugs Elsie <3

  193.  #194Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    @Lisa – I feel honored that you would share all of that with me (and all of us.) That took a lot of courage, and you should be PROUD of yourself that you have done so much and had so many accomplishments!!! Getting out of debt, raising two children!

    Its too bad that we cant see in ourselves what others see in us.

    You are totally NOT a whiny victim! You are awesome, and seriously you have a lot to be proud of!

    Man I wish all of us sirens could get together in real life to support each other!!!!

    Lisa – what part of the country do you live in?

  194.  #195Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    @ Elsie

    AWWW thanks so much! You bring tears to me… <3

    I appreciate you so much!

    I too wish we could all get together and have a drink ( though I don't drink alcohol… tea works)

    I'm in NC.. how about you?

    I guess I have come a long way… it seems like I still have so far to go… but I've survived… thanks for reminding me… that I have come such a long way…

    Big Hugs!

  195.  #196Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    LOL – Oh I didnt mean to make you cry!!!!! 🙂

    I’m in the midwest, so a bit far from you. I am proud of you and of every success story I hear on here….and by success I mean, the little steps that make ourselves better.

    You have come a long way!!!

    Rori should make a huge conference for all of us to get together – some sort of retreat!!!

  196.  #197Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    @ Elsie

    Oh dear tears are good! You made me cry a good cry.. a cry of joy! That you cared! tears of release…


  197.  #198Elsie on June 20, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Lisa – seriously the more I think about what you have gone through I am amazed. An abusive relationship, then another one with someone with Aspergers (how challenging that must be I cant imagine…..talk about someone who cant be emotionally available…..) and then to raise two children, and have a hearing impairment.

    You are amazing. Thanks again for sharing your story.

    Whoever ends up with you is going to get a very strong amazing woman. He will be very lucky whoever he is. 🙂

  198.  #199Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    @ Elsie

    OMG! I don’t know what to say right now… I’m just crying and crying… that was the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me… you just opened up my heart…

    OXOX Big Hugs! and if you were here now, I’d give you a huge one… Thank you!

    YOu have an beautiful heart and a great capacity to love and have compassion… your amazing also! 🙂

  199.  #200LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    For the first time I can push aside my thoughts and focus on my feelings. . . wow, this feels absolutely wonderful

  200.  #201LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    I think about a situation but then I stop and just feel my feelings and I don’t even remember what I as thinking about – it doesnt matter

  201.  #202LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    the moon feels like such a strong draw tonight, I wish I was walking a dark beach under the glow of the moon

  202.  #203LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    Pre-siren I could not have the vision without picturing a man there with me – now I just WANT TO BE THERE and feel what it is I anticipate about walking the beach, feeling the sand on my feet, not warm but not too cool, the breeze on my face, through my hair, the sounds of it all, the smell of the salt water, the sound of waves lapping the shore – I want to feeeeeeel being at the beach under the moon

  203.  #204LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    The beach would welcome me and the moon would grace me for the queen I am – royalty on the sand, becoming one with the elements – air, earth, water and fire – oh yeah, the fire is in my soul and in the moonbeams

  204.  #205Lisa on June 20, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    @ LoveAlways

    I love it when my thoughts are distant whispers and the moon is calling me and it feels so peaceful and full!

    sounds like your in a blissful place… enjoy!


  205.  #206LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    I was triggered by that last note – feel all closed up now – I’m in my head again, remembering, thinking, planning, and now I’m planning on not being open to HScd – not opening up to him like an invitation – I’ve stepped back, walked away, and I’m not ready for him to lean in. I don’t want to see him or talk to him. I don’t want to open up. I don’t feel safe. This does not feel safe to me. I am CDing, that feels safe (even though I haven’t been on any dates yet). Opening up to HScd does not feel good right now. I want him to suffer. I feel horrible and good wanting this. I don’t want to open up and share the good of me with him. These memories plague me. My head won’t stop. I feel ouch. I feel grrrrrrrrr. EXHALING. I feel the ocean breeze through my window!!!!! OMG! Thank you so much for the Ocean breeze here on my little hill on the top floor of my little house. The breeze feels caressing on my face and my feet. I feel soooooo at home and the beach is here with me, along with the moon. This feels extra special. I feel special. I am a queen and I am being graced by the moon and the ocean tonight.

  206.  #207LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    @ Lisa, yes, I’m trying to get there 😀

  207.  #208LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I feel so much at one time, but what I fee now is safe, and I feel like I want to feel safe some more, I don’t want it to stop. Thinking about HScd makes me feel not safe. I don’t want to feel not safe. Ohhhhhh I have to feel what is up under this feeling of not feeling safe thinking of him. thoughts and thinking are trying to pull me away from my feelings. I feel love, I feel agony, I feel soft, I feel sorry, I feel great, I feel relieved, I feel safe, I feel comfort, I feel good, I feel happy, yes I’m happy because of the moon, the moon is shining on me again! I’m feeling it all and all of these feelings are there, I don’t want to think about it, I want to feel it, but I don’t want to feel the difficult feelings, I want to move away from them, shake away from those feelings, but they are with me, they are me, they are there, I can’t get away from them – I love love, I hate them, but they are me, I don’t hate me, I love me, I am a queen, I’m not perfect, but I am a good queen with a real soul. I am a queen, I am a queen I am a queen

  208.  #209LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    I must walk the queen’s walk, I must take the queens path. it feels good to be me, it feels wonderful to be queen me. I adorn my body with lovely things because I feel them and they are apart of me. red and gold, jewels, lotion, cream, mascara, lip stick, perfume, oil in my hair, polish on my nails, it is all beautiful, I am beautiful, ohhh this feeeeeellls wonderful, BREATHING. Yes, I am queen me

  209.  #210LoveAlways on June 20, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    I feel sleepy, I feel rest coming on me. Time to lay my royal self into soft royal sheets and sleep a siren’s sleep and dream a queen’s dream as the moon and the ocean breeze carry me to sleep. Good night siren island

  210.  #211Wildgeranium on June 20, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Elise: I read a lot of your earlier comments/questions and a few things came to mind.

    1) all of this brain energy you are spending on wondering how to behave, what to say and do, emailing, worrying problem solving…all of it is leaning forward. All of it is affecting your vibe. All of it will push him away.

    2) men know exactly what to do and how to behave when they are involved with us. When they go away for a week, they know we missed them. They know we want to spend time with them. They don’t need us to remind them. In fact, not allowing them to step up- on their own, when they choose to– is robbing them of the pleasure they get out of stepping up to make us happy.

    3) get the book Why Men Marry B******. Stupid title, awesome advice. I just finished it .

    4) get Alison Armstrong’s books. They are fabulous.

    Both the above authors compliment Rori’s material very nicely.

    A coach recently asked me to estimate how much of the emotions I was carrying in my relationship. It was like 90% me and 10% him. I sense you doing the same thing. Give him back 40% and then allow him the space to figure out what to do with it.

    XO. 🙂

  211.  #212Indigo on June 20, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Thanks for commenting Daria 🙂

    Funnily enough, I was thinking that last night. Just returning his call and saying hi, not having that conversation at all.

    I know just what it is that turned me off about him: I may not have spoken up clearly enough, but I did sort of say to him that I would like a few minutes before bed just to go on my laptop and read and get ready for bed, and he hung around sitting next to me while I did all of this stuff. I thought I made it pretty clear that I needed a few minutes of space (this after a couple of hours of cuddling). And then in bed, he enveloped me with his whole body, even after I said I felt too hot to fall asleep. I felt totally claustrophobic, and I didn’t feel like explaining any more. It felt totally ick in my soul even as I realized what a sweet guy he is. Some level of personal, energetic space is SO important to me.

  212.  #213Veronica on June 20, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    FW -153- Thank you so much for thinking of me, this is really good stuff and I’m feeling excited for whatever’s next.

  213.  #214Indigo on June 20, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    (((Little Star)))

    I really enjoyed this article of Dominique’s the other day, maybe it will bring you comfort


  214.  #215Daria on June 21, 2013 at 1:34 am

    i feel so frustrated not feeling open to men

    thank you

  215.  #216Vi on June 21, 2013 at 2:01 am

    I want to hear ‘love’ and he says ‘friendship’… I choose to hear what he says and feel sad for a while… yep, Vi you are that cool 🙂 I feel sadness.. I feel peace.. I feel safe… I feel as if I am practicing Under the water tool…

  216.  #217sophie on June 21, 2013 at 2:06 am

    Happy Summer/Winter Solstice Sirens – magical times 🙂 This full moon (Sunday) brings lots of soothing/healing energy (sorry for indulging if its not your thing :))

    I love midsummer. i feel impy, fairy dusty, dancy 🙂

  217.  #218Vi on June 21, 2013 at 2:18 am

    “I do NOT need to … even be angry with you for making me rethink whether I can be here or not”

    I feel triggered resentful and pouty.. and deeply deeply moved and flowy too… I love my pouty face, I love my boundaries no matter how weak I feel they are…. hehe I feel afraid to have strong boundaries.. I don’t like to upset people… I love my fear of making people feel upset.. I believe their upset denotes me as a bad person…. and I don’t like to feel myself a bad person… so I fear of feeling like a bad person.. and I love me.. yay! I love me 🙂

  218.  #219Vi on June 21, 2013 at 2:19 am

    There is guilt in my Soup of feelings too.. I love my guilt 🙂

  219.  #220ruth on June 21, 2013 at 2:52 am

    I wish I wasnt in a different time zone

    What beautiful stuff on the Blog last night I missed

    And much wise advice about leaning forward and back

    Thank you

    (PS Silky white underwear with tiny cerise bows all ove r it and a cerise dress on today
    I feel very, very goddessy


  220.  #221Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 3:27 am


    I need your help. Are you able to link your bank account to Paypal? I want to buy an e-book and am not winning at all. How were you able to buy Dominique’s e-book? I don’t have credit cards/Visa or Mastercard, just the bank account.

  221.  #222Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 3:51 am

    Hi Veronica

    Ooh… that’s a toughie. I wasn’t able to link PayPal to my bank account here in SA. I recently got a credit card for my overseas trip and was able to buy Dominique’s book that way.

    Have you thought of getting a credit card, just to be used in situations like this?

    Dominique is very sweet though, maybe she might give you her bank details and you could do a transfer at the bank?

    Hope you come right xxx

  222.  #223Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 3:55 am

    Oh I see now you were asking about a different book… hm, a bank transfer would be my best suggestion, if you contacted the supplier and asked for their banking details…

  223.  #224Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 3:59 am

    Well, I finally texted R this morning that I was sorry I missed his call and hoping he had a fun night last night. He replied that he had taken it as his cue to exit. I felt strangely sad, though not deeply so. More like as though a little river was flowing past me.

    On the other hand D both sent me a sweet e-mail last night and messaged me to greet me this morning, and I felt awash with glowey, contented feelings. Like sunshine beating with warmth all through the inside of me and causing me to smile with a soft and ecstatic knowing.

  224.  #225Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 4:01 am


    Your underwear sounds GORGEOUS! 🙂

  225.  #226Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 4:02 am

    I feel beautiful and loved today, and oh so content.

  226.  #227Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 4:09 am

    Oh oops I was referring to Dominique’s book. My head’s a bit muddled today. I’m nervous about getting a credit card, but thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

  227.  #228Zia on June 21, 2013 at 4:14 am

    I’ve just today noticed that my ex has unblocked me from facebook, how is it that I can feel so overwhelmed? how can i still feel such strong emotions about him despite us having been broken up for 4 months? this is insanity. i feel overwhelmed. i feel out of control. i feel like my emotions are all over the place and i don’t know why and i don’t know why this feels crazy.

  228.  #229sophie on June 21, 2013 at 4:14 am

    (((Ruth)))) we’re cool in this time zone too 🙂 I’m siren blue floaty dress and blue bow bikini x going to the lido with my parents for pre-birthday treats 🙂 Goddess Goddess Goddessx Passed my Masters with merit so lots of lovely affirmations from my friends on FB x I realised with all my past days grief I have been forsaking myself and forsaking my dreams x bye bye FWBCD hello man who wants to have my baby siren 🙂 xxx woo hoo 🙂

    VI (HUGS))) you are doing so well x I moved through my feelings and voila liberation (!) I am back aligned with what I truly desire 🙂

    Ahhhh Indigo I love your watery references x I process my feelings like that x I love the water x and the moon x

  229.  #230sophie on June 21, 2013 at 4:48 am

    The leaning/forward leaving back thing – years ago when i was doing aa recovery groups they taught us to always check in with our motivations: what do i want from this? what am i needing? what am i hoping to achieve/fix? This was an invaluable tool for me and it seems to fit for me now with leaning back – generally when i can identify that my desire to lean forward is coming from a self-seeking motive i examine it. if i am just filled with love bursting and i want to share it i share it. if i have a need and i can handle whatever the response may be i share it explicitly. if itsmore that the need is about me i look for my own solutions. i guess that ends up being the vibe thing cos rarely anymore using that process do i experience the sting of rebuke or disappointment xx

  230.  #231Heart on June 21, 2013 at 4:50 am

    Zia – Thanks for all that info. Sounds interesting. I might check it out someday but right now I’m a little bit fed up if relationship advice. Also, nothing is wrong with still feeling sad about your ex…or overwhelmed or whatever it is you feel. I would encourage you to accept your emotions as is….instead of telling yourself it’s wrong for them to be there. What’s wrong with still being emotional affected by a past relationship and a man after 4 months? Absolutely nothing. You sound pretty normal to me. You’re feelings are not Wrong and you’re not failing at anything. There is no timeline for the human heart.

  231.  #232sophie on June 21, 2013 at 4:55 am

    226 i agree with Heart x seems pretty normal x out of the blue for me = shock/temporary emotion tornado

  232.  #233seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 5:05 am

    Fear……………. in it’s own boundary………….. I woke up early,3:30 here, I stayed in my bed and rolled around punched the pillows and thought………………. and heard outside noises and ………… I thought. I don’t remember now because I got up and went to the restroom and made a cup of coffee and was enjoying the quiet and coolness of the morning. I started reading here and the lovely words of Sirens to each other and I felt peaceful………….. until read the words WATER………….. my mind clapped on and off it went. I let it……where is this going part of me wondered….

    Water……….. always water for me. Since I could remember water has soothed me. Always always it has soothed me. When things were rough when I was a kid ………. into the ocean and swim as far as I could……then float and let go of all in my mind. Early meditation??? And as I was having these thoughts I thought, why weren’t you afraid of swimming at night in the ocean Seahorse????? And I remembered……………….. there was fear, it was just right there in a bubble, kind of…….. I was floating and it was night and I was thinking if I was a shark and down below if I looked up I would see dinner floating perfectly, and I remember thinking and feeling the fear as something other than who I was. it is part, I could access it if I wanted, but I didn’t. I wanted to be peaceful and I left the fear alone in it’s bubble and floated uneaten by the shark or the fear. I had made a choice, I saw what I was doing with the fear and chose not to go into it. I went back to enjoying the night, floating and watching the stars.

    Back to here and now, I was reading on my phone and then I came to the computer to check emails. Know what I got from the universe? A note on fear! CAN WE SAY SOMEONE IS LISTENING? Things sometimes come together in such amazing ways that I am left humbled by it all. Fear……….. boundaries……….. the ability to say it with feeling messages, no blame for the other person…… just me floating around in the ocean enjoying the stars and moon. It takes shape and I am beautiful in my ‘ME’ outline.

  233.  #234seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 5:09 am

    Thank you notes from the universe!!!! Thank you Rori for telling me about that. Sometimes when the going got rough, that simple email bubbled me right up with a smile and more often than not outright LAUGHTER! Thank you

  234.  #235seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 5:10 am

    I feel better than I have in a long time. Thank you

  235.  #236Heart on June 21, 2013 at 5:14 am

    Indigo – I feel grateful for the post & the support. You have a very nourishing, feminine vibe to me and your words usually feel like a hot, soothing bath. I enjoy submerging myself in posts! Hehe. Always feels comforting and agree with what you wrote. I believe sometimes when I’m panicked I can be a little weak-minded, fearful and hapharzardly follow relationship advice that does not resonate with my spirit or even my logic…and that I later Regret. I’m learning to trust myself more and do what feels right or make sense to me.

    Good luck with D. I’m glad he’s being more affection and getting into contact with you. Do you really want to stop seeing R though? I know he sounds clingy but you seem to be learning a lot about yourself through your connection with him.

  236.  #237Heart on June 21, 2013 at 5:19 am

    I meant to write : I enjoy submerging myself in your (Indigo’s) post.
    Btw – Im writing from my phone so forgive all the typos + mistakes I generally make…The “typepad” is small.

    On to Elsie’s…

  237.  #238Sassy on June 21, 2013 at 5:22 am


    I feel curious as to whether you feel the need to control most of the situations that come up in your life?

  238.  #239Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 5:23 am

    Zia – 226 – Oh gosh yes what are those feelings about? For me it’s the shock of ‘will things return to the way they were before, are things still not done between us?’ It’s almost 4 months for me. I felt so abnormal having all the emotions that are at times overwhelming. Friends would have to remind me that 1) it is a short period of time to deal with the ending of a relationship and 2) I wouldn’t be human if I wasn’t feeling all of this.

    Heart -229 – I love hearing this ‘There is no timeline for the human heart’

  239.  #240ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:31 am

    Grief has no timeline at all
    You can go back as well as forwards

  240.  #241BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:33 am

    seahorse we’re on the same oceanic vibe!!!!
    I woke us this morning from a dream so wonderful I jumped up and down and cried and laughed, leaning on the doorframe handonmyheart laughing and crying so much joyyy!

    I was talking to my mother, as I looked over her shoulder I could see the dark, wet ocean through the window over her shoulder. It was sooooo wetttttt I felt the wet all through my body, next thing I know I’m focused on the ocean,

    scanning for dolphins.
    There’s one! Squeeeee!
    And another!
    (I feel goosebumps all down my legs typing this!)
    There’s more!
    There’s pods all over the place!
    Not just dolphins but whales!
    I’m jumping up and down, trying to choke out,
    “Dolphins and whales, dolphins and whales!! ”
    Pan out, I’m on a school bus driving down a sandy beach road.
    There are dolphins and whales of all shapes and sizes, ALL OVER THE PLACE, all up and down the shoreline (throat choking up now)
    I see mammoth blue whales surfing in the most shallow of water, some are flying in the air along side the bus

    I’m pointing through the window and excitedly asking others,
    “How do I get out there? How do I get out THERE???!!”
    I open the bus windows, throw my arms out wide, and choke out,
    I realize,….okay, I can’t talk (my voice feels choked and barely a whisper)…
    that must mean
    I am dreaming!
    Okay okay if I am dreaming then…
    I turn to my left, the back of the bus dissolves and a gorgeous chestnut mustang comes flying through (more crying and choking and bubbling up just remembering how beautiful she is!!)
    I know I’m dreaming, I don’t hesitate, I hop on the horse…all barefoot and ready to ride

    then I woke up, feeling yip yip YIPPPPPPP!!!!

    I stood up, jumped up and down, thought of what mustangs mean to me, and that’s when I fell over handonheart bubbling over crying…

    Have you ever seen the movie Hidalgo?
    The mustang in the movie, isn’t a well-bred high class horse, he’s a mustang, and has so much heart, and had what it took to go the distance and win the desert race against the purebred Arabians, in unfamiliar territory, against the odds, he was ready to go and get back to the race when even her rider had given up

    and I feel so joyful and bubbling over again

    my horse is a mustang – not the most well-bred, high class animal, but smart, with SO much heart, endurance, she has what it takes, so strong, so persistent, wild and beautiful in her heartofthecountry kind of way.

    happyblissed yes yes thank you more please yes lovelovelovelovelove

  241.  #242ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:34 am

    228 Sophie

    I think you hit the nail onthe head perfectly there

  242.  #243ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:35 am

    and thank you Indigo

  243.  #244BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:37 am

    bubbling over
    my compass is set
    keep the dolphins and whales in my heart and sights
    trust my horse
    i’ll get off the eternal lesson bus and where my soul longs to be

  244.  #245BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:38 am

    men are such a distraction for me
    what my soul longs for is the wild
    what I tried to get from a man, only nature can give

  245.  #246BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:40 am

    USED to be distractions

    I don’t know how it is they SERVE me now, I only know they do and I am fulfillfed.

  246.  #247Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:43 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I need some advice…

    Is it right to totally let a man lead a relationship. It is making me feel like a mute little girl and this feels scary to me..

    I feel too scared to speak up for fear of losing him and I am watching everything I say and constantly berating myself for saying the wrong thing.

    For example, the other night – I was in overdrive – I went on and on and on about myself and my past and who I am etc, etc… And now I am really worried that I have scared him off.

    How do you get the right balance between being yourself and pleasing your man so he doesn’t think you are a great waffler…

    What is the answer?

  247.  #248BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:44 am

    seahorse i want to come swim with you and learn not to be afraid to swim at night!

    one night several years ago in galveston, my friends and I went there to celebrate a birthday and the red tide came in and night and it was even more glorious than the scenes in Life of Pi, because the waves were breaking on the beach it was like The Last Unicorn, waves and waves and waves of stars and magic sparkles and us wading out in it, making glitter showers with every movement

    The people who lived on the beach all came out to see because they had never seen it so bright and dense before

    I felt scared to go out too far because it was dark and the water is dark out there anyway and I used to be a jellyfish magnet
    I want a do-over!!!

  248.  #249BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:46 am



    Honestly what’s working for me, is to please myself and not give a rat’s behind what men think of me. They can come along for the ride or not, makes me no nevermind.

  249.  #250Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:46 am

    Hmmm… This is a constant issue for me. I always worry that I am boring and no one will ever want to listen to me. Am I boring? Do I talk too much? Should I always keep my conversation light and to the point because I know that that is what other people want..

    Rebecca do not be negative
    Rebecca be light and fluffy
    Rebecca don’t talk about things that might depress him or paint yourself in a negative light..

    The question? Do I need to be someone else to keep a man happy?? Pffttt…. It’s so much easier to give advice than take it!?

  250.  #251BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:47 am

    yessssssssssssssyesity yes yes YESNESS 🙂

  251.  #252BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:48 am


    Do you believe it’s your job to keep a man happy?

  252.  #253Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:49 am


    Thanks! I feel heard! Yay.. 🙂

    But… I am thinking… maybe there is a point… Maybe I do sound too negative.. this worries me… A few people have mentioned it now so I am thinking their must be a point.

    How do I change??

  253.  #254ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:49 am

    Rebecca honey

    I think you please *yourself*
    Do what makes you feel good
    And if the man sticks aroiund and mkes you feel good,, thats fine, if he doesnt then you are free for the next man who DOES let you be yourself

    (all well an good until you have feelings for the man LOL)

    But essentially isnt it about YOU feeling good?

  254.  #255Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:52 am


    Yes, I guess it is 🙂

  255.  #256BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:53 am


    “Is it right to totally let a man lead a relationship.”

    Do you believe you must go where he follows?

    Where do you believe your power is in relationship?

    ” It is making me feel like a mute little girl and this feels scary to me..

    I feel too scared to speak up for fear of losing him and I am watching everything I say and constantly berating myself for saying the wrong thing.”

    What is it that you want to say that you feel scared to say?
    Does this feel familiar to you?
    Whose voice do you hear berating you?
    Is it working for you?

  256.  #257ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:55 am

    And if Dominique was here she would say you are perfect as you are Rebecca

    It does sound like a potential healing experience to examine in yourself though, as Beloved says

  257.  #258Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:55 am



    Do you believe it’s your job to keep a man happy?

    Yes, come to think of it, I guess I do..

    It seems less about me being happy, than keeping him happy…

    It’s just that I’ve noticed since I’ve been on the blog I have constantly been berated for being ‘negative’ and now have a huge hang up about it.

    No-one ever says I am fun, or anything nice or positive about me, and this is worrying me as I have been on the blog for a year now..

  258.  #259Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 5:56 am

    So, maybe I am trying to please women – as well as men… In fact usually I offload onto men about women.. lol.. what does that say about me.. I feel very misunderstood and abandoned by women. i want to change this and heal this. Maybe I want that too much, lol…

  259.  #260ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:57 am

    Do you say nice positive things about you Rebecca?

    I know that I am often truly disparaging about myself
    Some of the Sirens have picked me up on this one

  260.  #261BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 5:58 am


    So are you saying other people have negative things to say about your negativity?

    What is negativity to you? What does it mean? What do you hear when other people say these things?

    Do you love your negativity?

    When I think of “negativity”, I think of the story The Emperor Has No Clothes.
    That little one who spoke up wasn’t looking for the positive in the situation, he just flat out said what he saw. If it were me and my mother when I was younger, I’m sure she would have shushed me and told me that wasn’t a nice thing to say, lol. 😉

    I also just read this interview with the founder of Regretsy recently, that re-framed negativity for me:

    “The biggest threat to humour however, is relentless positivity; this knee-jerk response to lavish praise on anything made by hand. I guarantee that if I featured a wedding gown made out of tampons, someone would rave about how absorbent it was.”

    What do you think?

  261.  #262ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:58 am



    I totally get that

    People pleasing

    (for me its about not feeling good enough for myself and craving external validation)
    At least I can see it, even if i am still repeating the patterns

  262.  #263ruth on June 21, 2013 at 5:59 am

    Beloved, Im chortling!

  263.  #264Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 6:01 am


    Yep! I am positive and say nice things to myself!

  264.  #265ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:02 am

    do you believe them Rebecca?

    I find that bit really difficult

  265.  #266seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 6:02 am

    Beloved!!!!! Swimming!!! Any swimming!!! Any body of water! Oh my……. I feeel so excited! Beloved and Seahorse swimming together in the wide ocean…………….. true Sirens, yes?

    What a magnificent gift dreams are. The ocean at night is quiet, and ……………… I can be with me and all. Thats what it feels like. The fear is there and I acknowledge it but, I…………… let it be. Daytime swimming is good too. Out far to the buoy, and float. I love swimming in the ocean in Hawaii. So much salt in the water you float with no effort at all……………. bobbing around snorkeling and no worries………

    Oh Beloved, I feel very happy for you, BIG HUGS!!!!

  266.  #267Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 6:05 am


    Yes! I feel so got… that is almost exactly how I feel!

  267.  #268Zia on June 21, 2013 at 6:06 am

    Did a lot of riffing over these feelings and I’ve come out the other end feeling good. I love my fear. I love my uncertainty. What overwhelmed me, was the synchronicity between what I put out to the universe yesterday, and this happening today. I don’t believe in coincidences. But I am going to keep doing what I’m doing and just allow myself to feel my way through these feelings surrounding him and what is still coming up about him, but keep working on me like I have been these past few months, and keep on this path I’ve chosen. There’s a HUGE part of me that still misses him, and us…. but……… there were things that had to change. All I know is that if he and I are meant to be together, we will. And I’ve said this before on here, but I won’t have to push at it or make it happen. Just keep letting go of control and doing the things I have control over – and that’s my feelings and my actions surrounding ME.

  268.  #269Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 6:07 am


    Yes, I believe all the nice things I say to myself, even if someone else sees me as ‘negative’ or whatever I still have great love for myself.

    Why do you struggle if you don’t mind me asking?

  269.  #270seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 6:08 am

    Ruth!!! Lovely undies!!! How’s the man landscape watching? Have you noticed the different inside thoughts? I never thought much of a mans bottom before, now……… hahahahaha!…………. I appreciate all of them. I suppose the way I would like to be appreciated for not having a models body. Aren’t we just beautiful?

  270.  #271Zia on June 21, 2013 at 6:10 am

    263 ruth: BANG! I would say a lot of nice things about myself, but I never believed them. I WANTED to believe them, I KNEW they were true, but I didn’t believe them in my heart.

    Just recently, in the past week or so, I said to myself “I am worthy of love as I am right now”. And, for the first time IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I *TRULY* believed it. I felt so… whole. I have been SO used to saying but then feeling a heaviness in my heart, doubt, that it didn’t feel real. And now that I have gotten to a place where I truly believe it, it feels different when I say it. Complete. Whole.

  271.  #272Rebecca on June 21, 2013 at 6:11 am


    For me, I sense my real underlying issue is a total lack of confidence. I don’t ever feel confident enough to say ‘I am happy’, or ‘I feel good’.

    Maybe this is negative? I would love to heal this…

    I feel like I am saying this in a whisper and with butterflies in my stomach…

  272.  #273Heart on June 21, 2013 at 6:12 am

    #51 – Mel – If you are single circular dating, as in actually dating other men and practicing Rori’s tools is great.
    But if you are in a relationship, like Elsie, dating other men may end the relationship or create such distrust, bad vibes and other nightmare situations. At the end of the day, it can be a dressed up ultimatum depending on the Siren’s subconscious motivation.
    I have yet to read about one siren who circular dated up until marriage. Neither Rori nor Mercerdes did that….They both had exclusive relationships first, then circular dated, then re-entered the relationship.
    That’s VASTLY different from Cding up until marriage.

    Also, I don’t know if Rori was cding or not pre-marriage or if she was just plainly dating other men. I believe if she had those tools & knew all those things before she was married, then her marriage wouldn’t have fall apart. She would have been a siren from the get-go. So, when exactly she came up with these things is unclear to me. Also, if she was just dating other men and not-actually cding, then her advice doesn’t actually come from personal experience but Theory/ possible success of other sirens she coached.

    Does Rori still cd ? Rori advices to still cd even after marriage… In the flirt with men and keep her heart open kind of way I don’t know but most likely. Do Mercerdes or Dominique still cd in that sense? I wonder.

    Anyway – back to what I was saying about cding being a dressed up ultimatum. Even though it might not be intended that way I can’t help but believe that the guy WILL see it that way. He might feel pressured, marry you and then the relationship might fall apart because he felt forced or afraid. I don’t know. I am nowhere there yet but it is important to really think about these things. Cding might actually prevent you from having the relationship you want in the long run. Just getting married is meaningless if it’s an unhappy one.

    Anyway, Rori did CLARIFY cding and said NOT to just start cding if you already in a relationship.

  273.  #274ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:13 am

    Rebecca I have never ever felt “good enough”
    Chronic low self esteem
    and subsequent high achiver perfectionist type

    I am working on it

    Once I am in a place where I DO love and value myself I wont really care what people think and their good opinion of me wont matter at all
    The validation and good opinion has to come from me, not others

    I *know* that logically,makes sense
    I suppose it might take a while to undo forty plus years of feeling like this and over compensating in my behaviour

  274.  #275BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 6:13 am


    “No-one ever says I am fun, or anything nice or positive about me, and this is worrying me as I have been on the blog for a year now..”

    Okay I know maybe I’m a little left-field and kind of weird…
    I would wonder, though,
    is it my job to be fun? Or nice? Or positive?

    Whose approval do I really need?

    I’ve noticed there are people who make entire careers out of being catty and gossipy and negative. There are people who LOVE it. It’s not what I want for myself, AND, I see that it can be totally lovable, acceptable, and valued.

    Hawaii…I’ve been dreaming of Hawaii for soooo long…I’ve been thinking about skipping the PNW and going to the coast instead (haha, can you tell from my dream??)….
    I want to dream with you more about this


    kkkkk sirens I must get to work this morning…
    love and love and love
    dolphin squeals and whales songs to you all this glorious tropical gulf coast morning

  275.  #276ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:14 am

    Zia, so are you saying that if I keep on telling myself good things day after day, I might eventually start to believe it?

    What shifted for you?

  276.  #277Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:14 am

    Am I boring? Maybe you are. It is fine to start talking to yourself. Telling yourself that you are a great conversationalist so you can give your brain a chance to look for things to talk about. Like a funny story that you can hide up your sleeve to pop out unexpectedly.

    Do I talk too much? Maybe you do. This kind of question shows you are building your awareness about yourself. A clue to pay attention to your intuition. When you do you will be clued in to your man so you can feel when he has heard enough.

    Do I need to be someone else to keep a man happy? Everyone else is taken so you have no choice but to be yourself. You can choose to be your best self.

    One thing I believe is key to answering these wonderful questions you are asking yourself is to figure out how you can engage your creative energies to build yourself. Worrying will only shut down than energy and weigh you down.

    Make this awareness and creativity your friend.

  277.  #278Zia on June 21, 2013 at 6:15 am

    Rebecca – Can’t remember if you have any of Rori’s programs, but Modern Siren helped me with that 🙂

  278.  #279Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:15 am

    “I intend to EXPAND my heart, mind and energy field”

  279.  #280ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:16 am

    I followed a couple of male bottoms on the way to work today

    I swear they could feel my eyes

    Both men stood up taller

    he he

  280.  #281Heart on June 21, 2013 at 6:17 am

    For me, Cding as in loving myself and discovering myself an through Rori’s tools is GREAT at any stage of your life.
    As for actually dating other men & practicing leaning back, learning about your triggers, finding new ways to communicate is good for the dating, non-exclusive period of your life.

  281.  #282ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:19 am

    I kind of agree about dating multiple men-i really dont think it would work in the UK
    But flirting with men (and women) and CD ing yourself, well, I would be fine with that

  282.  #283Zia on June 21, 2013 at 6:20 am

    ruth – my dad taught me affirmations from a very young age, so i’ve always used them. since a teenager (i’m in my 30s). just telling myself that every day didn’t make a difference. rori had some good advice where she suggest using “i intend to….” instead of “i am….” to take that element of doubt away. So for example “i intend to trust my boundaries” instead of “i trust my boundaries” because if you don’t believe it it won’t work. your mind can believe “i intend to” more.

    however… it’s taken me a very intensive four months of personal development on a spiritual and emotional level, to get to where i am now, and these issues have been with me in a big way for almost four years now. i’ve been aware of the need to grow over the past four years, but it wasn’t until another relationship falling apart in a spectacular and unbelieveable way for me to finally go ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and really really really dedicate the time and energy to working out what is at the root of my issues. i’m not there yet, but the fact that i can believe that i am worthy of love as i am right now is an incredibly huge huge huge step for me.

    it started with this blog, and rori’s tools, and has branched off in so many ways and through a lot of lessons and self discovery.

    i am sorry the answer is not much simpler!!! 🙁

  283.  #284Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:20 am

    Zia, so are you saying that if I keep on telling myself good things day after day, I might eventually start to believe it?

    I can say yep to this question. I remember when I started looking in the mirror and telling myself “I am beautiful. Good morning beautiful”. I initially cringed. My mind did not believe it because I believed something else. It was hard to feel the intensity of the former belief.

    Yet as I continued to say this to myself, on day I saw what I was saying looking back at me in the mirror. I felt a difference inside and I laughed at myself. I started to make fun with myself and throwing kisses at myself. I realized that I felt more confident. Now even when I ride on the subway I look at myself in the window. I look for opportunities to look at myself in every glass, mirror, shiny bag you name it. Even when guys make comments I say I know I am beautiful. Or thank you I know aaahhhh.

  284.  #285ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:27 am

    Thank you FW and Zia

    Yes, I agree it sometimes takes a major crisis to start the healing journey

    Ive never really used affirmations till recently

    FW, I loved that link you posted about mirrors yesterday

    I *am* making sure I dress well, underneath as welll as on the outside,a nd am taking more time to tale care of skin etc.
    And thats helping
    Im keeping my gratitude journal-right now thats niot working so well, but Ill keep at it
    And now when I run, I take may camera and sometimes stop to appreciate nature.
    Today I saw two cygnets and a gosling
    I fel light and airy and happy for a minute or two, even though I hd set out with a heavy heart

    I shall try the *intend* thing
    Sounds good, thank you

  285.  #286Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 6:30 am

    Heart: ” Neither Rori nor Mercerdes did that….They both had exclusive relationships first, then circular dated, then re-entered the relationship.
    That’s VASTLY different from Cding up until marriage.”

    J and I were not together at all when I started Cding. I wasn’t even talking to him. I added him into my rotation and continued to date other men while dating him but that happened months after we broke up. I was honest with him about the fact that I was dating so distrust never came into play. I turned him down many times because I had a date with another man. I stopped cding (actually dating other men) when J and I made a lifelong commitment (our version of marriage since we don’t want a marriage in the ‘legal’ sense).

    Now, I still cd myself and yes…I flirt. I’m an incurable flirt I think. I make eye contact with men, I smile at them, I have conversations when I find myself sitting near another man. I enjoy men and their company. J knows I “get hit on” and he’s aware of anyone I’ve met and talked to and places I go when I’m out without him, etc. It’s cding in the “not actually dating other men” sense. I think I will be like this forever. I’m open and warm to everyone I meet. Men or women. With or without J being in the room.

    I don’t know if that’s the kind of situation you are referring to or not but it’s how I did and do cd.

    Much Love,

  286.  #287Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 6:39 am

    @WildGeranium – You are very right, and I have read Why Men Marry B***, and also have Allisons’ book – haha!!!! Its easy to read and harder to put into practice.

    Sassy – your comment triggered me HARD – in a good way. I need to be in control for a lot of reasons. First my mother taught me that. Second, someone very close to me got an illness and it was very unexpected. It made me scared to fly, scared of everything, scared of heath issues. I felt I had to at least TRY to control everything, even though we all know that logically we have no control.

    Ironically, it was only after my relationship started with GS that I am no longer afraid to fly (after 10 years!) and dont have nearly the health anxiety etc.

    I do feel a strong need to try to control – mostly because I feel like what I need/want wont show up for me, so I have to do it myself, etc. I feel like no one will love me enough…….

  287.  #288Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 6:40 am

    I guess to put it realistically, I had an actual date with a man two weekends before J asked me to be his partner for the rest of our lives. It had been a while since I dated anyone other than him on a weekend (he had been filling those dates up pretty well) and I don’t know, I think that part got to him.

    I think he really, really noticed that I may not always be there. He and I went out the next two weekends and then he called me that following Sunday and asked me to come over so we could talk. It was at that point that he really told me (not just with words but with his heart) that he wanted me all to himself and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He asked me to stop dating other people and promised that I had his heart and, unless I let it, nothing or nobody could ever come between us again. He said it was killing him to think about me with another man (I wasn’t sleeping with other men though and he knew this. Also, the actual dates with other men had become few and far between since J and I began to spend a lot of time together).

    I never had another actual date again after that talk. It took a few years before I could continue to take our relationship to higher levels (ie move in with him) but after that talk (a talk that he initiated), I knew I had a partner forever. That’s what we have…a partnership for the rest of our lives. Some people call that marriage.

    Much Love,

  288.  #289ruth on June 21, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Mercedes, out of interest, were you sleeping with J when you dated or did you just not at all?

    Sorry if thats too personal

  289.  #290Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 6:50 am

    Wow! This is all bringing back memories. Even after J and I were together, I went out for coffee with a male friend from a class I was taking. J wanted to come with me but he was being so cranky during that time so I asked him not to. This other man was really, really just a friend but I suppose you could call that a coffee date. I don’t know. It didn’t feel like a date but it was a form of cding I think. It certainly had an effect on J…

    Much Love,

  290.  #291Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 6:50 am

    I woke up this morning with two very different and weird feelings.

    Ironically my daughter and I had horrible nightmares last night. I woke up at 4am and called, and my soon to be ex told me that she was fine and that she had just had a nightmare too – weird!

    Anyway – I woke up feeling that something bad is going to happen today. It was a horrible feeling, but mostly because I think I woke up from a really bad dream again. So, I talked to my daughter and I feel much better.

    But then I had a revelation! Out of nowhere!!!!

    Ok I’m not sure if we get to see each other alone this weekend. I”m not sure if I should tell him that is what I want – he probably already knows, right? I dont know. Ugh. So that part I’m STILL up in the air on – as far as what to do when I get back to the office today. But……

    I realized that what would feel authentic to me is to just totally be normal and at some point (not right when I get in the office, but at some point….) tell him, “Hey, you asked me to always tell you if I was thinking about something or needed something in our relationship. The reason I love you is because you are so independent, and I have had someone that used me for support for so long that that feels really good to be with someone that is so self sufficient and can take care of his own business and also take care of me. At the same time, while I know you relish and need alone time, and I dont mind that at all, I’m just a girl here, and I love how we would talk a lot at night and when we went out of town etc. I understand at the beginning everyone is ga-ga over each other, but I would still like that sometimes at night, even if we cant see each other. I really do love feeling connected with you, what do you think?”

    OK – as I was writing that I was thinking – ok, I dont know I’m so torn. He may truly not know that I really need this because lately I’ve acted like its ok that we dont have it. But at the same time, I want someone who WANTS to be there next to me, and just wants that for HIMSELF.

    I’m torn – thoughts?

  291.  #292Zia on June 21, 2013 at 6:52 am

    I plan to CD until I’m in an exclusive relationship with someone, and I also don’t intend to sleep with a guy unless I’m in an exclusive relationship with him. So for me, that takes the issue of sleeping with one guy and dating others off the table.

  292.  #293Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:53 am

    Heart – I have yet to read about one siren who circular dated up until marriage.

    In reading this comment Jilly came to mind. I hope she comes on and comment.

    I understand cdating as therapy not a “dating of men” specific thing. Also I imagine that a smart man will insist on exclusivity when he has made up his mind and offer a woman something that she cannot refuse, even if it is not immediately marriage . Something that makes her feel confident about taking herself off the market and investing in what she has in front of her.

  293.  #294Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:57 am

    “Hey, you asked me to always tell you if I was thinking about something or needed something in our relationship. The reason I love you is because you are so independent, and I have had someone that used me for support for so long that that feels really good to be with someone that is so self sufficient and can take care of his own business and also take care of me. At the same time, while I know you relish and need alone time, and I dont mind that at all, I’m just a girl here, and I love how we would talk a lot at night and when we went out of town etc. I understand at the beginning everyone is ga-ga over each other, but I would still like that sometimes at night, even if we cant see each other. I really do love feeling connected with you, what do you think?”

    Reading some parts of this, my inside said yuck especially about the reason I love you.

    First of all it is great you a scripting Elsie. Also note how resistant (yuck) you must feel inside reading my first comment about.

  294.  #295Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Are we allow to get feedback on other things?

    this is for my biz… any thoughts be honest… like it or dislike it? I’m going to be printing in on T-shirts. I need all the market research I can get. Thanks for your time… <3


  295.  #296Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:58 am

    Next – Please remember to sandwich your requests so they don’t come across as demands. I learned that from CCarter and I notice both Rori and Dominique use it.

  296.  #297Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Ruth: It’s okay…my life has been a pretty open book on this blog. lol

    I didn’t have sex at all for a long time. When J and I started getting much closer again, he was the one I chose to be sexually exclusive with. But yes…I still had other dates. He said the one thing that kept him sane during that time was knowing that I wouldn’t sleep with other men. He’s pretty sure that would have pushed it over the edge and we would not have ended up together.

    Much Love,

  297.  #298Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:03 am

    FW – Can you help me make the script better? 🙂

  298.  #299Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:05 am

    @Lisa – I’m glad I made you feel better – and I LOVE the logo!!!!

  299.  #300Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 7:06 am

    @Feminiewoman That sounded great, the script… nice

    @ Ruth do you have underwear you produce? I’d love to see….


  300.  #301Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 7:08 am

    @ Elsie

    Thanks! 🙂

  301.  #302Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:10 am

    First start with the complement. Not a comment about the relationship.

    I would use appreciation and admiration.

    Remember just because he tells you to always tell him what you are thinking doesn’t mean that you should take him up on the offer. Too much of a good thing can cause anyone to become sick.

    ‘I admire how independent and self-sufficient you are. I find this very attractive and want that for myself.”

    I would leave out “Hey, you asked me to always tell you if I was thinking about something or needed something in our relationship. The reason I love you” and the reference about someone using you for support for so long”. That comment felt particulary icky. I wonder why you would want to repeat and reinforce that you made bad decisions and couldn’t take care of yourself.

    “At the same time, while I know you relish and need alone time, and I dont mind that at all” (if it were me I would assume the fact that you have to say you don’t mind means that you do. It is just the way my mind works. Saying that you don’t mind kinda feels disrespectful and suggests that he might not have the option to make his own choices in the future.

    “I understand at the beginning everyone is ga-ga over each other, but I would still like that sometimes at night, even if we cant see each other. I really do love feeling connected with you, what do you think?” – This to me is making him wrong. Focus on how sharing how you feel when he does something that makes you feel connected. Put words to that feeling.

  302.  #303ruth on June 21, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Lisa no, I just buy the undies fron a shop

    I dont have a creative job-Im a doctor

    well, maybe some creative writing may be involved in that
    Not allowed FB at work so will have to check your link later

  303.  #304Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:12 am

    Elsie I encourage you to really explore Mel’s fm that she shared yesterday. I believe it was, with a few tweaks perfect for the situation. I actually saved it and confirm that I would use it myself.

  304.  #305Heart on June 21, 2013 at 7:16 am

    Elsie – lol!

    I feel really happy and smily reading your post. It feels like having a cup of coffee with crunchy-yum cookie. I feel relieved. It’s good knowing I’m not to only one. I feel connected and glad that you liked that I mentioned you. I feel a valued and good about myself. I feel rewarded for my care and happy I said something about your situation rather than stay quiet in order to not upset the blog

    Both you and Indigo seem to be coming from the same place and that’s the place I intend to go to.

    With regards to GS, I could be very wrong but going by what you’ve written…I’ll just say what I said to you once before in a nice, non-advicey, RR-friendly way: If it was me, I would onder why I am micro-analysing everything and find out what that’s about. In the past, I have done that when I was eeling needy and clingy and afraid. I found myself inventing problems in order to justify my feelings …but these feelings were really just old stuff, even stuff from childhood I had repressed and showed up in my dreams or just came to mind when I was relaxing.
    I realized that some of the stuff men that I liked did that triggered me came from fears I developed while witnessed my parents marriage as a child….among other things.

  305.  #306Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:22 am

    Elsie my question to you is what would you say to him if you were going to seduce him in a playful way?

    I recognize that you are asking questions because you want to prepare for the possible scenario. I really don’t see this as micro-analyzing. You want what you want so you are helping your insides to say it in a way that the man can hear. I believe that is great.

  306.  #307Heart on June 21, 2013 at 7:24 am

    #284 Mercerdes – yes I know you were not together. But you were in a committed relationship with J and then broke up and then started cding…Right?

  307.  #308Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:25 am

    For me, a siren has a mesmerizing song and presence that seduces a man unconsciously.

    Elsie some of your script came across as addressing his logical mind.

  308.  #309Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:26 am

    ‘I admire how independent and self-sufficient you are. I find this very attractive and want that for myself. ”

    I like that part, but cant come up with anything to say after it – to let him know that while I dont NEED it – and I’ve thought a lot about this – I guess dont NEED it but I really would like it – its not a boundary or a dealbreaker, but would be very reassuring and make me feel more connected to be in touch with him some nights or some weekends etc.

    Anyway – help with that part of the script?

  309.  #310Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Think of his ears and his emotional mind as his most erogenous zones.

  310.  #311BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 7:27 am


    I wouldn’t bring this up at work at ALL.
    To me, it smokescreens the fact that he isn’t stepping up to make time with you outside of work to have these conversations.

    I’d give him a chance to really really REALLY miss me.

  311.  #312Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:28 am

    One thing at a time Elsie. You want tonight or this weekend. Focus on that. Rome wasn’t built in a day, is what I tell myself

  312.  #313ruth on June 21, 2013 at 7:29 am


    Amen to that
    That could apply to women too

  313.  #314Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 7:30 am

    Heart: Yes. J and I were in a long distance committed relationship and then broke up. We didn’t talk for a long time and then I allowed him back into my life where we later progressed to a lifelong partnership.

    I don’t really understand what difference that makes. Cding is to keep a woman from being too attached to one man and to keep her sane and to allow her the opportunity to find out what she really wants in a relationship. She continues this until one man steps up to claim her. What difference does it make if that man was someone in her life before or if it was a cd that she hadn’t met years ago?

    I guess what I’m saying is that if there is any woman on this blog who’s relationship is not going well, they drift apart or break up, she starts cding and he steps up to claim her…why would that matter or be any different than if he didn’t step up to claim her but someone else did?

    I’m failing to make the connection between how what Rori teaches and what I practiced are not the same thing…

    Can you help me understand? I’m feeling like my relationship is being used as a direct example AGAINST Rori’s teachings and I’m starting to feel defensive of both Rori and of my relationship. And I don’t want to feel defensive.

    Much Love,

  314.  #315Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Do you think he loves you?

    Do you believe he is overwhelmed with intoxicating desire to see you?

    Do you believe he has an overwhelming craving to touch you?

  315.  #316Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 7:34 am


    Oh that would be great after work… thanks!!!!

    Oh ok buying underwear is fun! I just read they were gorgeous… 🙂


  316.  #317Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:35 am

    “To me, it smokescreens the fact that he isn’t stepping up to make time with you outside of work to have these conversations”

    Maybe. But I would focus on that. That would change my vibe. I would focus on the times that he did, to see if I could home in on the things that maybe inspired and motivated him to do so when he did.

  317.  #318BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 7:35 am

    I was ‘anxious’ attachment style, too – the only thing that cured me of wanting to attach to avoidant men, is really feeling the pain that it causes me.

  318.  #319ruth on June 21, 2013 at 7:35 am

    They ARE gorgeous Lisa

    I do love cerise pink

  319.  #320Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:37 am

    Elsie the way I see it is, this is the man in front of you now and you want him. Even if he is not right for you, you want him and you are finding ways to say what you want. I see your main challenge as letting go of expectations and being able to accept no as an answer.

  320.  #321Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:39 am

    FW – you said .. One thing at a time Elsie. You want tonight or this weekend. Focus on that. Rome wasn’t built in a day, is what I tell myself

    OK – please tell me what that means. I shouldnt bring up the fact that he didnt contact me very much over the week? Ok – fair enough.

    Should I bring up tonight or the weekend? Or leave it be….? I’m still soooo stuck. I want him to know how much I want to see him, sigh. But, at the same time, I dont want to have to “convince” anyone to be with me. I’m stuck in the middle of knowing what to do.

    Sorry if I”m becoming a bother on the board with this.

  321.  #322Mel on June 21, 2013 at 7:41 am


    I CD-ed until my man asked me not to. When he offered me the sort of commitment I was looking for. I think the idea is not necessarily to CD until marriage, but until you have the relationship you want.

    As for CD-ing while in an exclusive relationship… I definitely see how that’s more challenging. However, going out with male friends and flirting and being open are definitely doable.

    AND, I would add… that If my exclusive relationship was really becoming a relationship I DIDN’T want… I would definitely CD again. At first myself and friends, then perhaps more.

    After being so unhappy in a marriage I was trying to “fix” for so long, seeing my health deteriorate, seeing myself become a shadow of who I once was, feeling anxious and depressed… I don’t want that for myself ever again. Looking back, it was NOT a relationship that was good for me, but I was trying to MAKE it into one, and driving myself (and my ex) crazy in the process.

    By no means am I now a “give up if it doesn’t always feel good” kind of person. But after putting in a valiant effort (mostly into looking at my OWN stuff) if I’m still feeling unhappy in a relationship, I have learned that it’s OK to move forward into something better. It’s no one’s fault… but everyone deserves to feel happy.

    It’s not an ultimatum. Choosing to CD other men while in an exclusive relationship is a choice a woman makes because she knows what she wants and it’s not happening for her.

    She’s not demanding her man give it to her. It’s not an ultimatum. It’s a healthy woman saying: “Hey, I don’t want to put any pressure on you here, but these are some things that are really important to me and I know I would regret it if I accepted anything less. I don’t know what the future holds for us, and I’m certainly feeling open to seeing what evolves, but I feel it might be best for me to keep my options open right now. I want to feel happy.”

    That, to me, feels kind and mature. If he’s willing to offer what she wants, that’s completely HIS choice. If he can’t everybody is better off.

  322.  #323Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:44 am

    You are not a bother at all Elsie. It is great, I believe, that you are working through this.

    First I would say focus on your intention. What is your intention here? What message do you want him to hear?

  323.  #324Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 7:45 am

    “I want him to know how much I want to see him” – I think he knows. I believe you told him before when you were discussing your personality types and how he needs alone time and you don’t. Do I remember that correctly? If not, then I don’t see anything wrong with telling him you want to spend more of your free time together. But I wouldn’t tell him more than once.

    Much Love,

  324.  #325Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:48 am

    Mel I get so stuck sometimes reading about “exclusive relationship” also. What does that mean? I wonder if people here consider and negotiate the terms of their exclusivity? Is it an all inclusive deal or is it only for sex? What assumptions are we making?

  325.  #326Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:50 am

    Is it Lauren Frances who talks about (M)ale (A)ttention (D)eficit (D)isorder. Three strikes and you are out.

  326.  #327Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 7:54 am

    Elsie do you believe he will ask how your trip went?

  327.  #328Mel on June 21, 2013 at 7:55 am

    FW (323):

    Exactly. all these things need to be negotiated and made explicit. Has he ASKED? Or am I just ASSUMING?

    Do we want the same things for our future? Or am I just hoping he will change his mind?

    What does commitment look like to me? What does it look like to him?

    Is giving up my “freedom” to date others in my best interest? Is this the relationship I want? Could I be COMPLETELY happy if things did not progress any further?

  328.  #329Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:59 am

    FW and Mercedes – please let me know where to send the check for my therapy through you. LOL>

    Mercedes – Yes, I have told him. In the past that I would like more alone time together. He then said – well, I would be with you every night, but then when that week happened, he wasnt with me every night, but every other night, which was fine, but just giving history here. Yes, I have told him in the past. So you are saying to not say it again?

    FW – Yes, He will absolutely ask about my trip. He will probably call me as soon as he sees that I’m in my office today. I know that for sure. I also actually do need his help on a work related thing so I can bring that up then, but there is a great possibility (not sure 100% that he might be going out of town next week….) so that would be THREE weeks that we havent been alone if he does that and i dont see him this weekend. Not a deal breaker, but man, I miss that alone time. 🙂

    And FW – thank you for making me feel ok to talk about this on here – I just dont want to monopolize…. LOL

  329.  #330Mel on June 21, 2013 at 8:01 am

    For me, becoming “exclusive” was akin to marriage, not just “dating.”

    Marriage in the legal sense is not important to either of us. Moving in together. Sharing a life together. He introduces me as his partner. We take family vacations. We help each other achieve our goals. We consider the other person before making big decisions. These are the things that both of us wanted out of the commitment.

  330.  #331BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 8:01 am


    “Maybe. But I would focus on that. That would change my vibe. I would focus on the times that he did, to see if I could home in on the things that maybe inspired and motivated him to do so when he did.”

    Wow. That sounds so exhausting, it sounds like so much work.

    I would focus on me, what am I feeling/thinking/needing, what feels GOOD, what will please ME.

    I’m at the point where I just don’t care if I inspire a man or not…I want to cultivate my own inspiration and my theory is that that from that clear and centered, unshakeable place, I’ll naturally magnetize and be surrounded by inspired people.

    It’s a theory at this point – I’ll let y’all know how it works out, lol. 🙂

    Although so far, stuff has shifted in a major way with my parents, and my shop sup is just making up easy work to have an excuse to give me overtime…
    I’ve got my inner compass pointed back at my soul’s desire, the dolphins and whales…so far so good…

  331.  #332Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Elsie: If he knows already and chooses not to spend more time with you then that is obviously what he wants. Telling him again probably won’t change anything. Unless you think he just forgot and needs a reminder.

    Much Love,

  332.  #333Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

    BeLoved: “I’m at the point where I just don’t care if I inspire a man or not” – Wow! I can’t imagine being in that place and being happy about it. I love that I inspire J and he inspires me. It makes me so happy when I know that being with me helps shape who he is as a man and vice versa.

    Does being in this place feel good to you? Only asking because I’m trying to imagine that place for myself and how I would feel about it.

    Much Love,

  333.  #334BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 8:14 am


    Mercedes – yes, it feels freaking phenomenal…

    I’m pretty sure you’ve been in that place though – you inspired me to be here.
    I don’t put on heels to go to the grocery store to inspire men, I do it because I like how my legs and feet look in heels, and I was inspired by you 🙂
    And it just came natural to you to inspire me, didn’t it? You weren’t trying, or focusing on how you inspired me once in the past and how maybe you could do it again?

    The way I understood your break with J, was that all of the taking care of yourself was for YOU, and not for J, not trying to figure out how to get him back or get more time or get get get something from him or make something happen or ..
    You were just being your best self…and J was naturally inspired.
    You weren’t focusing on inspiring him or trying to re-create some experience from the past or get more of something from him, were you?
    If I understand your story correctly…

    Maybe that better explains where I’m coming from.

  334.  #335Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:14 am

    Elsie – He will probably call me as soon as he sees that I’m in my office today.

    Maybe I would try giving a one-liner update and say it would feel good we connect later as I a catching up a bit here. What do you think?

    It is Friday

  335.  #336Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Elsie I was playing a bit with this. I believe it is long but kinda catches the essence of what I want to say. I said focus on now because I don’t think projecting too much into the future will necessarily get it. Focus on the now.

    How did the week go?

    “aaaah it felt challenging, it felt good and relaxing to get away a little from the responsibility of motherhood. I didn’t feel rushed at night or overwhelmed so I took the opportunity to relax, enjoy myself with a drink and catch up on some reading. How about you?

    Then use the opportunity, depending on what he says to let him know how missing his handsome smile (or something) made you realize how you appreciate it. Then let him know you believe he is an awesome man ands ‘I admire how independent and self-sufficient you are. I find this very attractive and want that for myself. I also felt an intense desire to be touched. I really sank into how much of a girl I am and how much I want touch, laughing, face to face communication and fun. I laughed at myself when I realized that I was angry at myself too for wanting this. I felt silly trying to talk myself out of wanting it but the girl in me wouldn’t listen. She would not listen to logic. We were busy dreaming about her intoxicating desire for fun and passion and being able to ignite unstoppable heat and chemistry with a special man that we can drive wild with desire. I love that about myself and imagine creating this in my life. I don’t want a life without passion. How about you?

  336.  #337ruth on June 21, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Mercedes-to me Beloveds post reads like the ultimate freedom
    Being happy in your own skin, not needing a man at all and pleasing yourself

    Lots of food for thought today

  337.  #338Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 8:20 am

    BeLoved: Oh yes…there are certainly times when we inspire without trying and being inspiring does begin to come naturally after a time. What I’m concerned with is the “I don’t care if I inspire a man or not” part. I may not be “trying” to do it but I certainly care. If I stopped being an inspiration to him, I would care a lot. It’s the “I don’t care” part. I don’t think I could feel happy about that.

    Much Love,

  338.  #339Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 8:20 am

    I’m the same way. I don’t care if I inspire a man or not… not my job… what is my job is to inspire me… and I do that.. much of the time… and I don’t know if I inspire “M” or not….he has said I do a few times… but I do know he inspires me…

    It feels good to not have an attachment to someone making me happy or inspiring me… and if they do…that is double icing on the cake..

    I tend to go on and do my own thing rather than wait on a man to ask me out.. sure I want and I think about it, but I have so much going in my life creatively that I don’t lack things to do, and reading books about relationships is one of them… if I go out great and if not, I’m content sitting at home sewing or reading on my back deck with nature… sometimes when I’ve gone out with men I’d just as soon be doing something else…. LOL!.. big sign..


  339.  #340ruth on June 21, 2013 at 8:22 am

    oh yes
    And being the best, most expanded and awesome person you can be


  340.  #341Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:32 am

    BeLoved I just realized I had a lot of typos there.

    I believe the difference here with Elsie is that she wants to be with this man. He has his reasons for doing what he does but she wants to be with his man. At least for now. Focussing on his flaws and what he is not doing might only create friction and cause her to feel worse. I am pretty sure she is not looking to create friction. Also I am pretty sure Rori encourages women to stop focussing on a man’s behavior.

  341.  #342BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Mercedes –

    Is the difference, you think between being invested in a lifelong partnership, and me being single and dating?
    It could be different if I were in a lifetime partnership with a man, if that ever happens we can compare notes and maybe my mind will change 🙂
    For now, the only lifetime partnership I’m committed to is with me, so what makes me feel inspired is what matters most to me these days.


  342.  #343Heart on June 21, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Mercerdes – It makes a whole world of difference. For a single siren dating, cding and being told to use the No girlfriend, No Exclusivity speech on new men it is VERY DIFFERENT.

    If in the initially stages of dating you (before the TRADITIONAL committed relationship that you eventually had – the previous one before the break up. Not the one your in now) when J had tried to make you his gf/deepen the relationship or however you both got to that initial commitment –> and You gave him the No exclusivity No girlfriend speech….
    Well I wonder (having lacked that emotional investment and deeper connection of a monogamus, exclusive relationship) if he would have agreed to that….(To reiterate: This is Before the First Committed relationship you all had. This is in the dating stage). I question whether he would have kept seeing you and you would have missed out on the love of your life.
    It’s hypothetical and you can always ask him if it means that much to you.
    But 3 of my guy friends said they would stop seeing the girl if she wanted to keep seeing other people. That’s a girl they are dating I am referring to …I didn’t ask them but I gather from their personal histories that a girlfriend or a former-girlfriend-they-had-wronged-felt-guilty-about-and-really-wanted-back WOULD be a different story.

    For many, many people GIRLFRIEND is a necessary step towards deeper lifelong commitment! And MOST guys would rush and claim a women that Used To Be their girlfriend EASILY but most Would NOT keep dating and eventually claim a woman that didn’t even want to be there girlfriend in the first place! And encouraging women to NEVER BE A GIRLFRIEND is dangerous.

    Both You and Rori were girlfriends to the men who claimed you….and have ZERO personal experience with being claimed by a new guy.

    Therefore, you’re not a real example for many sirens.

    Can you understand the difference? Can you see the point I’m trying to make?
    It’s simple and obvious to me.

  343.  #344Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 8:37 am


    Ok I don’t recall that about not focusing on his behavior…. I must have missed that somewhere…

    So what do we focus on then?

    I don’t ignore his behavior if it doesn’t feel good and I let him know when it does feel good…

    just curious


  344.  #345BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 8:48 am


    I agree with this:
    “Focussing on his flaws and what he is not doing might only create friction and cause her to feel worse.”

    Since this is Rori’s blog, and her tools have worked so well for me, I’m advocating what I learned from Rori, which is, “Keep the focus on ME,” and don’t try to get into a man’s head.

    My experience is, when I sink into my feelings and get present with what is really going on with ME, then I often naturally and quickly receive a more intuitive understanding of what might be going on with whoever triggered me without all of the rumination and I have more energy and feelings of well-being available to me to use for my benefit and self-care.

  345.  #346Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:51 am

    “often naturally and quickly receive a more intuitive understanding” – Everybody is not there/here yet.

  346.  #347Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Lisa – I believe you need to be more specific.

    With regard to his behavior, I read it several times in Rori’s respone to people on the question thread and in some of the eNewsLetters I get in my mailbox.

  347.  #348Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Lisa – 293 – Could you tell me what you’re going for? I like the leaf, it kind of looks like a paintbrush as though the sap inked the words onto the shirt – that encourages feelings of empathy in me and also points to an aliveness of trees, life etc. At first the text seemed a little too young for my age, but I don’t know who your demographic is. However the ‘freshness’ of the colour and the lettering could be emphasised maybe by avoiding typical branding approaches to t-shirts and instead go for a ‘it looked like someone painted it very lovingly onto their shirt’ aesthetic. That could also make it fun as opposed to letting it just be information on a shirt. I really like the possibilities for empathy. If the logo was printed on a black or a very nice colour shirt i.e. Indian Red so that the green blazes out with its young bud life or a nice soft cherry blossom pink so that it’s this fruity colour that ‘floats’, I could buy it. A white shirt would also be fine.

    I like the idea of healthier homes, lives etc. : )

  348.  #349Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Behavior – talking about an ex.

    Suggested scripts

    “I feel uncomfortable talking about your ex. It doesn’t feel good to hear about other women in your life, especially if there’s a lotof energy around them. I’m starting to feel jealous and weird and way too curious”

    “I feel icky. I hate haring about ex-wives and ex-girlfriends. It feels crummy. I feel like I don’t want to be here. I’m exhausted from talking about old relationships”.

  349.  #350BeLoved on June 21, 2013 at 8:58 am


    FW, Maybe not everybody – BUT –
    Elsie forgive me for talking about you in 3rd person, I don’t know a better way…
    the other day, when Elsie sank into her feelings at work, she reassured and realized for herself that it wasn’t likely that GS all of a sudden had fallen out of love with her.
    Which is what I want to point back to –
    she already has one direct experience of her own to build on.

  350.  #351Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 9:01 am


    Oh great feedback! Thanks!

    I need the demographics to be large.. including young and mid age… I think about 45 to 50 ish… but I’ve had some older say they like it too…

    i’m in to the Eco movement so I’m going for a inspirational message that will inspire people to go green b/c it is hip… but also necessary..

    people tend to make habits out of trends… which is what I’m hoping for.

    Yes, I’ve put it on a brown shirt and black and it looks great!

    Empathy is good… I think… for a feeling and hopefully inspiring one also…

    THANKS for the wonderful feedback..


  351.  #352seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Mel 320- That is perfect!!! I feel understood when I read that. That is how I feel with relationship. I don’t feel angry when it didn’t work out. I felt sad. I felt tired. And then I felt free………………… I feel really really great with the fm’s and boundaries. So freeeeeeeeeeeee………………… Yay Seahorse!!!

  352.  #353Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 9:09 am

    Lisa – I keep thinking how much fun it would be if people could also draw on their ‘it’s hip to be green’ shirts – add poetry etc. Make it their own. I know if I did that with my shirt I would want to talk to the person who has the same shirt, I would be curious and I would want to look at their shirt.

    During Apartheid there was a lot of advocacy/activism through T-shirts, and your idea brings me back to that.

  353.  #354Veronica on June 21, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Lisa- Yes brown of course! I like that too for many reasons : ) makes me think of planting : )

  354.  #355Heart on June 21, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Mel – I think your relationship sounds lovely (not trying to be condescending…I don’t know much about it and Lovely is the most honest expression of how I view it) and I’m glad for you. I believe you’re essentially Proving My Point. You cd-ed until you became a girlfriend.
    Would you man have kept seeing you if you didn’t become his gf?

    I’m not trying to cause trouble on the blog. I’m living my life an meeting men and I sorta brought it up with one guy even and he was like “It’s assumed” and then watched me like I was crazy …lol (It’s assumed that you only date one person at a time).

    I felt like it made connecting a bit awkward. It’s not a big deal really…but I’m Out There you know and maybe I’m wrong but I wonder if some of these things make bonding problematic or maybe the problem is with the men. I don’t know…just exploring and trying to trust Rori and hoping I don’t F-up my chances at a happy relationship…hehe. Regret is a terrible thing and I don’t want to create it further down the road.

    I read something by a Jonathon Aslay …that recommended dating one guy for 3 weeks. I think he said most men would be put off by multiple dating. THIS IS ANOTHER TOPIC ENTIRELY I know. I’m just trying to find my own internal compass and navigate my way through this Outer Dating Country.

  355.  #356seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 9:29 am

    When I was younger 17 to 23 I dated a bunch of guys. Two were boyfriends. They asked me to be their GF. One of the problems were guys ASSUMED I was their GF. I used to laugh in genuine laughter at the situations. Why would you think I am your GF?……….. The looks at that point…….. sheesh! We went out a lot! I took you home to my parents! We went camping!!! I honestly had no clue. One guy asked me why I was GF to the guy I was with and ……………… I said HE ASKED ME! I was soooo clueless…………….. I always had a date back then. I remember…………….. I remember blocking out days so I could be alone and not go out……………. I had such I really great time dating

  356.  #357seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 9:30 am

    I haven’t thought of my salad days for awhile…. that felt good

  357.  #358Mel on June 21, 2013 at 9:31 am


    Again… It’s CD-ing until you have the relationship YOU want. And then even after that, not staying so focused on the relationship that you forget about YOU. Being “open” to the world of men and receiving compliments and kind gestures from them with grace… and CDing yourself becomes important here, I think.

    I don’t consider myself a girlfriend. In fact, he was slightly insulted when someone thought he was my husband and I corrected them.

    Later he said: But I like to think of myself “like” a husband to you…..

  358.  #359Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Heart – I feel worried about the same thing sometimes, but I think it’s missing the point that Most guys are gonna wanna marry a certain woman THAT THEY WANT TO MARRY regardless of what is going on as far as calling each other girlfirend and boyfriend

    these guys cant wait to be married to that woman and they are the ones who propose

  359.  #360Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:34 am

    also theres hundreds and most likely thousands of women out there who’ve used Rori’s tools to get married that are not writing on the blog

  360.  #361Mel on June 21, 2013 at 9:39 am

    And not all women WANT to get married… 😉

  361.  #362Heart on June 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Conversely, (YES AFTER HAVING SAID ALL THAT) like FW , I question this idea of exclusive relationships, which is why I’m exploring all of this, and still heeding Rori’s advice.
    Essentially, it could all be The Girlfriend Trap and sometimes it sounds like women lying to themselves and pretending like they Don’t want to get married.
    When the truth is the guy doesn’t want to get married and the women accepts it. At least this is the way it is with some of my friends in real life who say they don’t want to get married to their men admantly…while later down the road confessing they would Love to be married and that the relationship just isn’t heading there….

    I feel curious about some of the long term relationship GirlFriends on the blog. Has your man ever proposed? And did you decline….is that why your not married?
    Or does the talk never come up?
    Did you want to get married before meeting the guy or where you just looking for a long term partnership?
    And why are you two not married?

    I don’t care about marriage right now but that can change when you fall in love with the right guy. Instuitively, I sense I might care about it at some point.

  362.  #363Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:46 am

    I just asked a past Practitioner I’ve purchased services and products for free help

    and I got it!

    and im feeling so tense inside and sad and … ashamed

    and I love my shame and sadness

    and embarassment


    thank you for doing that for me Daria

  363.  #364Heart on June 21, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Mel – I sense a lot of defensiveness in your posts. Why don’t you like being called a girlfriend. It’s wonderful that he thinks of himself as your husband. Has he proposed?

  364.  #365Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:49 am

    I just watched Bridezilla last nite and watched this guy ADORE!!! and get tears in his eyes at the altar marrying this AGRESSIVE, BOSSY, YET TOTALLY HONEST TO HERSELF AND HER FEELINGS WOMAN!

    to the point that she hit her best friend and was 3 hours late to the wedding…

    and he just ADORED HER

    and her him as well!!


    i feel jealous

    IO want to record it to watch it over and over

  365.  #366Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Heart I felt shocked.

    Where is the defensiveness in Mel’s comment?

  366.  #367Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 9:51 am

    BeLoved: “Is the difference, you think between being invested in a lifelong partnership, and me being single and dating?” – I don’t know. That could very well be it. Hmmmm…yes…maybe.

    Heart: I didn’t have a single man stop seeing me knowing that I was looking for the love of my life and dating lots of men to find it. Not one. Not that I didn’t have men stop asking me out, but not a single one gave me the excuse of wanting to be exclusive before I was ready. Nobody, including J but even the others, said “I won’t see you anymore if you don’t stop dating other men.” There was one man (other than J) who I got close to. He became a really good friend and there were feelings there (not love but…some kind of emotional connection). Even he didn’t stop me from going after what I wanted.

    I guess it is possible that men will leave a woman if she won’t be exclusive before he’s offering her a dream but in my experience, lots of men will stick around through it. I have zero examples of a man leaving me because of other men.

    I think most men are charged up by the competition. They don’t run from it, they actually step up even more. Challenge. It can be a good thing.

    Much Love,

  367.  #368Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:51 am

    i feel jealous of seahorse’s early dating life

    I want that now!

    I had it just a lil while ago (months) but now the guys seem less…

    and bak then I felt like i was making compromises (as far as booking last minute dates etc)

  368.  #369seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Heart- I ask for patience with this……. here comes………… I am trying to understand why you keep asking the same question……….. it’s different but the same. Almost like…….. it’s as if you want the rules to be the end all be all answer for relationships.

    That felt hard to write. I feel there is no black and white with it, for myself. GREY and shades of it are where it’s at. To navigate it, we have guides, and………………. guidelines to healthy behavior and reminders to keep it real and go deep into ourselves to find the answers of our OWN behavior. To be happy within ourselves first and foremost. To enjoy ourself with our own self………………… and remember that we come first in our own heart. So then we can share that with a man, and truly love another with no strings attached. For love doesn’t hurt, it helps us grow and be all we can be

  369.  #370Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Girlfriend is something I am trying to show my 16 year old that she doesn’t want to be either. I know, convincing 🙂

  370.  #371Daria on June 21, 2013 at 9:53 am

    I agree in a way with Heart about the defensiveness. and more with her questions

    It seems like it’s not right out there at the surface, but does feel a lil triggering to read about the situation and brings up questions for me

  371.  #372Heart on June 21, 2013 at 9:55 am

    #358 – Daria – Would be nice if some examples of the Cding, No GF, no exclusivity Siren would show up on the blog. Either way can we all at least agree that this way of doing thingd is Different (cding until marriage with no girlfriend stage) ?

    And Daria – you don’t need to convince me that Rori’s work is beautiful and powerful. I know this Firsthand. I’m just questioning certain key elements of her method.

  372.  #373Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 9:56 am

    RE 365 Mercedes my experience is that some guys initiate fewer dates.

  373.  #374Mel on June 21, 2013 at 9:57 am

    No, no, I don’t feel defensive. 🙂 We’ve just chosen to label our relationship as a “partnership” is all.

    In Canada, it is a legally recognized entity (as far as taxes/benefits etc.) to be in a “partnership” (same-sex OR heterosexual). It’s a commitment that’s entirely determined by the couple involved.

  374.  #375seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Daria!!!! Me too!!! hahahaahahah!!!!!! Dam it was fun!!!! So many lovely men! I didn’t have tools then and made the choices I did and I am thankful for my kids………………….. I see the guy pattern of my choices. DUDE!!!!!! Oh well, live and learn! Thank you may i have some more please??????

    Steady as we go………………. Sails up and clear skies for miles……………… new lands to explore and mens bottoms to oogle!!!!

    Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhhh!!! I am soooo feeeeeeeling it!

  375.  #376Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:00 am

    I wish I could see/feel the defensiveness. Maybe it is because Mel has expressed to me in the past that this is what she wants for now.

    Also as far as I am concerned girlfriend is basically just another label. Girlfriend, partner, confidant!!
    I have people in my life who chose from a variety based on how they see themself and choose to describe what they want. They don’t lock themself in *a societal box*.

  376.  #377Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Mel 🙂

    Didn’t see that yet.

  377.  #378Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:02 am

    “It’s a commitment that’s entirely determined by the couple involved.”

    woohoo – I think this is right down the Hendricks Alley

  378.  #379Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Heart: Hopefully I can answer some of your questions…

    J and I talk about marriage all the time. We’re just not there but both are open to the fact that ONE of us could get that need in our heart before the other one does. If one of us feels a desire in our heart to get married, we will get married. Our favorite saying is “We’re not going to lose each other over something like marriage”. 🙂

    We’re not adamantly opposed to marriage, we just don’t feel a pull to do it right now. J believes we will one day be married but he thinks we’ll be one of those couples on the news who said “I’ll marry you on your 80th birthday” and then that day came and they did it. lol

    I don’t know if we’ll ever really get married legally or not. I would marry him if he felt a pull in that direction and he would marry me if I felt it. A few weeks ago we were at a wedding in MN and someone asked us about it. He said “I would marry her tomorrow if she wanted to get married.” I feel the same way about him.

    As far as “why” don’t we get married. I really don’t know. I also don’t know why we WOULD get married. Until we can answer questions like those, I think it feels good the way it is.

    As far as what I was looking for before I met J, I think it was friends with benefits. I had been married before and I was soured on it and I wasn’t even sure I believed true love existed. J and I had lots of conversations about this as friends. I think we were both pretty negative around the whole marriage concept and we both at least thought we wanted to be single and free forever. We don’t feel that way anymore at all. Neither of us do. I came to the realization first. J came to it when he lost me.

    J has never proposed so I have never turned him down and I wouldn’t turn him down. He wouldn’t turn me down either.

    If we do ever decide to marry though…I will be sure to post about it here. 🙂

    Much Love,

  379.  #380Rori Raye on June 21, 2013 at 10:03 am

    FW – My view on teenagers – perhaps up to 23? – is that the girlfriend experience can be a helpful learning experience. Imagine if a “girl” were able to CD, then choose a boyfriend, then feel free to walk away if he’s not doing the job? She could practice going into depth with a boy who’s just forming himself as a man – by the time she’s ready for commitment – she’ll have this DOWN!!!! Plus – you’re dealing with sex, FW – and you’ll want her to have as safe a place to experiment with that as possible. At her age – the only way to do that safely is with a boyfriend. It’s all about who she is, the timing, her self-esteem and personal power, what she needs to learn. If you model Feeling Messages – and then play the BOY part for her in all your conversations WITH her ((print out the HTRYW book and leave it lying around where she can see it (color up the cover page so she’ll see it)) – she’ll start thumbing through like it’s a magazine article, and then ask you what it is, and then you can share whatever you like with her. Love, Rori

    This has me thinking I should do a teleclass for women with teenaged daughters – we can practice scripting, playing the boy, modeling the girl.

  380.  #381Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Thanks Rori. She reads the blog sometimes and the book is lying around where she can read it. Sex is not yet an issue and I do believe we would talk about it if it starts playing a role. We talk about those things now. I did not think about the self esteem and personal power part but I know I feel fear around her depending on a man for self esteem but your point makes a lot of sense. I will definitely take your suggestions on with her and have her read your comment.

  381.  #382Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Her and sex is now one of my biggest fears because she leaves for school in France come September. So we have already started discussing my expectations.

  382.  #383Mel on June 21, 2013 at 10:17 am


    “It’s a commitment that’s entirely determined by the couple involved.
    woohoo – I think this is right down the Hendricks Alley”

    For me, I almost think it’s BETTER than marriage.

    ** I totally respect marriage for those people that feel marriage (before G0d, etc.) is important…**

    But for me… this is a conscious choice. I don’t have to be here. Neither does he. We could pack up tomorrow and there would be none of the legal hurdles of divorce. It could be over in an instant.

    But we CHOOSE to be here.

    I’ll give you an example.

    Last week there was some stuff bothering me (related to his children) and I expressed my concerns to him in FMs directly and privately.

    And he listened. When I was finished he said: What you’re saying is completely reasonable. I am always aware that you are choosing to be here with us, but that you could just as easily make the choice not to. And we ALL want you here. So I will make sure that you always feel welcome your home. You shouldn’t have to be the only one that has to make adjustments. It is important to me.

  383.  #384seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Hahahahahahhaha!!! I triggered myself!!!!!! And then Rori with the post and FW talking about it and I AM LISTENING UNIVERSE!! Like getting hit over the head repeatedly!! hahhahahahaha!! Holy Cow!

  384.  #385Turquoise on June 21, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Wow girls… not sure what is going on with me and my energy…. the universe, but WOW!

    So first, I asked the universe to please send me money! Then, a few hours later my sister called and said there was an insurance policy for my grandmother that went unclaimed… she died 6 years ago! Turns out we each get enough to buy lunch, but still… it’s something! lol.

    Then, yesterday at 11:11 I wished for some really good sex, especially after the conversation on here the other day. Well, last night I had totally unplanned, spontaneous sex with Mr. Conversation and it felt great! 5-6 months was quite a dry spell. Lots of juicy kissing too. Whew!

    SO, today I am being more specific.

    Universe, please send me more INCOME. I want a raise or another job opportunity…. something consistent. Thank you! 🙂

  385.  #386seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Cracking myself up! hahahahaahah!!!

  386.  #387Heart on June 21, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Mercerdes – where did you meet these men? On the internet? I have never internet dated and have only had dates with men I have met in REAL LIFE who made the moves towards me. And I’ve head some interesting things from LOTS of my guy friends who elaborated on the difference between woman they pursue in real life and ones they have met on the internet. I won’t share it here for fear of triggering women on the blog and also because every situation and man is different but there it seems
    very likely to me that those men were Not Really Into You.
    If you don’t believe me anyone can ask their brothers, cousinfs, co-workers etc about the differences and see for yourself.

  387.  #388Lisa on June 21, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I have to say that internet dating is not causal for all men. I dated over 54 men on the match dot com site and met “M” on Green Singles and he was so taken by me that he took his profile off the first date…

    I met several players but more so, I met real men that was very nice and authentic … and even met some still today friends…

    I think it would be a great disservice to generalize on all men and internet dating…. b/c it isn’t that way for everyone. I wasn’t looking for casual… I think it has to do with the energy you put out there…. and how you write your profile… I had over 6000 reads on my profile in 8 months..

    I think you can learn to sort through the serious ones and ditch the players…

    just my experience on it…


  388.  #389Heart on June 21, 2013 at 10:33 am

    #371 – My experience is that I can almost feel an invisible wall going up from the guy side and an awkwardness….and I can feel some of the innocence being lost…and there is something in the atmsphere that changes…
    But I don’t really have much experience with this I’m still testing it out.

  389.  #390Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:33 am

    I almost think it’s BETTER than marriage – I think it is because of the filter of past experience.

    Conscious choices and commitments can make a difference. I believe for the most part couples throughout time went around making assumptions about themselves and their SO. Totally oblivious of what works and that there are other choices.

    I prefer marriage but now I know what having a good relationship in that context can be. In my earlier years marriage was just another milestone in life.

  390.  #391Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Heart 234

    I feel so pleased that the support felt good to you.

    And I felt totally warm and chuffed and delighted by the compliment and what you said about my posts. I love the idea of myself as having a nourishing, feminine, soothing vibe.

    I often feel like I “get” what you are trying to say or ask, so I feel very pleased.

  391.  #392seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Little Siren said she wants her first kiss. All my girlfriends have had one Moooommmmmmm……………………. I diverted the rest by holding her down and licking sloppily all over her face and said thats how it’s going to feel………………………………. hahhahahaahahahaa!!!!! We got a great laugh out of it. We haven’t spoke of it since. That was about two weeks ago.

    Rori- That is a great idea! Mom and daughter class! Even a teenager class. Self esteem in the dating world. That feels most excellent. We do tools now and she really enjoys them, great bonding time for her and I. Thank you

  392.  #393Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:36 am

    RE 390 – ewwww is what I felt and ewwww is what I am sure my daughter would say. I would hate if my mother did that. eeewwww

  393.  #394Heart on June 21, 2013 at 10:40 am

    #384 Lisa – I completely agree. A good friend of mine is in a relationship with a guy she met online….But they have a lot of problems and are always fighting. Still he is Into her and committed so I believe every situation is different. I was speaking generally on feedback I obtained while deciding if to internet date. I don’t really want to try it not because of the feedback (which didn’t sit well with me) but mainly because of my own love for real life meetings and connections.

  394.  #395Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 10:41 am

    “I can feel some of the innocence being lost” – I feel curious, tell me more.

  395.  #396Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 10:42 am


    It was a very strange experience with R. It felt good, until one day it didn’t.

    I acknowledge I felt very cared for, and learnt a lot from having him in my life and the whole experience brought a great deal of good to me, and then all of a sudden it was over. As my trip and my conversation with D got closer, I felt an apprehension where R was concerned. When we properly ended it earlier today I felt relief flood my system, even as it was tinged with sadness. There was a rightness and a synchronicity to it that I don’t want to question or probe. It was a just isness about the whole thing.

    I believe a gift of CDing R that I have gained, is it gave me a feeling of strength about what I want when I go into the conversation with D, and I know I will be able to fearlessly stand for and communicate that.

  396.  #397Heart on June 21, 2013 at 10:43 am

    #389 Indigo – I feel Delighted to read that..I’m smiling happily into the screen.

  397.  #398seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 10:52 am

    FW- Ewwwwwwwwwwwww! Is absolutely right! She was grossed out! And laughing…………. it got the uncomfortableness out there about tongues, somebody else’s tongue in your mouth. We are very open with these things. Also the beauty of kissing and the myriad sensations that come from that.

  398.  #399Mel on June 21, 2013 at 10:58 am


    LOL :p

  399.  #400seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Taht was all I could do at that time on that subject. I feel scared of her making choices for that. My own stuff and I really do not want to freak her out concerning her body. Healthy healthy healthy choices and realistic ones too. Breathing……………… self confidence self esteem just………… Her Self glorious self.

  400.  #401Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 11:01 am

    ewwww Seahorse I see my daughter killing me for days if I did that.

    Then again that I believe is a great lessson in intimacy (into me see).

  401.  #402seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 11:02 am

    If you think about it….. it’s awfully funny. somebody putting their tongue in your mouth. ahahahahhaa!!! EWWWWWW!!

  402.  #403Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Indigo I would love for Rori to comment on that. I have interviews with other coaches who talk about false chemistry. I understood it as once we have it someone, like a lover who might still be in our lives, it is practically impossible to create it with someone else. This is the reason I so believe in clarity, clearing clutter and making space that Arielle Ford promotes.

  403.  #404seahorse on June 21, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Oh my!! I had the thought what if she’s getting kissed and starts laughing at the young man thinking of me licking her face!! OH no! hahahaahhahahaaha!

  404.  #405Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Heart: I would say it was about 60/40. 60% being on the internet and 40% being guys I met while out to dinner or at work or out with friends, etc. I would also say that most of them were not all that into me and I wasn’t all that into them either. Certainly not hung up on anyone (the purpose of cding).

    The one guy who became a good friend was really into me. And I also had feelings for him (not love, as I said, but feelings). He was stepping up at the same time J was. I chose J. The other man captured a piece of my heart though and I wanted nothing more than for him to be happy. I hope he is. I ended that when the time was right.

    Much Love,

  405.  #406Heart on June 21, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Indigo – I’m just remembering your post where you said He mcuddle you for hours and then wouldn’t leave your side by the computer…lol that was kinda funny. I was kinda imagining you in my mind looking the way my Cat looks when I play with her too much. I’m glad you feel that internal rightness….it’s all we can really ask for when we end it with somone.

  406.  #407Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 11:05 am

    They say ewww when they are watching movies. They said it when we were watching Think Like a Lady Act Like a Man over the weekend. But they still seemed intrigue like they would try it out.

  407.  #408Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Heart: “Would be nice if some examples of the Cding, No GF, no exclusivity Siren would show up on the blog. ” – Besides me you mean, right?

    J didn’t propose “marriage” in the legal sense. He did ask me to spend the rest of my life with him and I said yes. In TX, we could file a common law piece of paper today and be “married” but we haven’t done that. Maybe someday we will. Maybe someday we’ll have a ceremony. Maybe someday we’ll go to the courthouse and have a judge “marry” us. Maybe someday…I don’t know.

    But I do know that I accepted a proposal to spend the rest of my life with the man I love passionately. That, I know for sure.

    Much Love,

  408.  #409Turquoise on June 21, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Hi Ruth!

    You have inspired me to get some beautiful and sexy underwear this weekend! 🙂

    Mel and Mercedes…. thank you for your time and patience on the blog, to repeat your stories regularly for the sirens here.

    Heart, good questions!

    Mr. Conversation texted me this morning, “how do you feel?” Cool!

    Lisa, you sound great, I wish we lived closer so we could hang out. I’m in PA.

    Elsie, kudos to you for sounding so calm and working through all these thoughts and feelings!

    I’m done with work, happy weekend everyone! 🙂

  409.  #410Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Turquoise: Thank you sweet lady! I like sharing my story because I think many women can either relate or at least gain some hope from it. I wouldn’t go back for anything in the world but I’m grateful beyond grateful that we were able to make it this far and that J and I are sharing a journey together. I am in love and I don’t take that for granted one single day of my life.

    Much Love,

  410.  #411Heart on June 21, 2013 at 11:22 am

    I don’t mean to leave anyone hanging but I need to rest. I’ll respond to the posts directed towards me later…Have fun blog.

  411.  #412Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Turquoise you sound so sexy relaxed and magnetic

  412.  #413prplpsn28 on June 21, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Some very interesting info on this post. Love it!

  413.  #414prplpsn28 on June 21, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Mercedes – I hope one day I can find myself in the same place as you and J relationship wise. It sounds wonderful!

  414.  #415Mercedes on June 21, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    prplpsn28: It does feel pretty good. I believe everyone can and should have the relationship of their dreams. That won’t always look the way mine looks (mine is perfect for me but probably not perfect for everyone). Yours will be perfect for you. I believe that with everything in my soul. 🙂

    Much Love,

  415.  #416Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Ok. I need to remember what Dominique said and not beat myself up right now.

    I feel so stupid and like an idiot.

    I got back to the office, and I couldnt wait. I was just so excited to talk to him. So I settled in, and then after I got all settled, called him. Idiot. So, he answered, and I did the thing we always do and whispered “what are you doing.” And he laughed and said he was working on an email. And then I said “are you busy then?” And he said….”Well, define busy….” Ugh. He should be rushing over to see me, be with me….right? Ugh.

    Anyway – as if those two things weren’t horrible enough, I said, “Ok, well come over when you get a second, I have something for you.” he said ok….

    I am the textbook case of what not to do.

    1. Call first
    2. Ask if they are busy.
    3. Ask for them to come over.

    Seriously. What is WRONG with me?

    Just breathing now, and breathing, and breathing.

  416.  #417Dominique on June 21, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Ruth – 255 – Yes I would say this Rebecca. Yes I would.

    The article I published this week might help you with this.



  417.  #418Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Feminine Woman 401

    I’m not really sure what you mean?

  418.  #419Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Heart 404 😀

    It was kinda funny. I’m not quite sure how much clearer it can get than “oh you know what would feel really good to me right now? to have a few minutes to myself to go on my laptop and get ready for bed” and then he loitered over my shoulder. Actually what I did was smile and pick up my laptop and go through to the bedroom.

    I think I definitely would have given those slanty sideways looks that an uncomfy cat would give… 😀

  419.  #420Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    The way I understand it Indigo is that when you have someone you are invested in, that space is no longer available so it is almost impossible to create what you want with someone else. Example: if you are for instance hung up on D you couldn’t build chemistry with R.

    I have to review the interview to be able to explain it clearly.

  420.  #421Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Elsie, I would love to see you stop using the words “wrong” and “idiot”.

    But really, what jumps out at me about your posts is, get out of your head, and into your body. I wonder if you could completely put a stop to all this overthinking by doing that?

    I was amazed. I used to go through these endless feedback loops in my head like you are doing, and I thought I was pretty in touch with my feelings. But when I really got INTO my body, the feeling was totally different and MUCH better and calmer and clearer than being in my head.

    Dominique is really good at teaching this.

  421.  #422Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    “Did you know that more than one-third of marriages now begin via online dating sites?

    Did you know that couples that meet online are twice as likely to marry than those who meet offline?

    And, did you know that couples that met online are happier than those who didn’t? These are just some of the most recent statistics from surveys (including a really important one from eHarmony) and studies about online dating that ran in a recent USA Today article.”

    Got this in an email from Airelle Ford

  422.  #423Dominique on June 21, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Heart – 271 – Cding as you know is not necessarily actually dating other people.

    Rori for the most part advocates dating until there’s a ring and a date – or something equivalent if marriage is not what you want.

    For me when I work with women, I don’t focus on this aspect. What I DO focus on is CDing the world or what I prefer to phrase as engaging with your world. In my video program I go as far as saying bringing orgasm out into your world.

    And what I mean by this is being as present as you possibly be in as many moments as you can possibly be. Having your eyes, ears, nose, mind, heart, and spirit as open and present and receptive as you can.

    It’s about smiling with an open heart at passerby or people you stand in line next to wherever you might be. It’s taking a moment to stop and pet the doggie tied up outside the coffee shop (if he/she is friendly and open to this). It’s about taking a moment to feel the breeze on your cheek, the aroma of freshly mowed grass or blooming flowers, hearing the birds sing their sweet songs, and so on.

    This is CDing to me, and yes I do this ALL the time or as much as I can.

    I didn’t know Rori when K and I got together. I was a serial monogamist, and I don’t have a problem with this at all. It can work well. The beauty of CDing with actual men when you are not exclusive is to help keep you from getting attached or creating something which isn’t yet there, i.e. an imaginary relationship.

    I hope this helps clarify.


  423.  #424Indigo on June 21, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I understand, Feminine Woman, and acknowledge the validity of what you are saying.

    I don’t have the words to explain this, because it is something that goes so deep for me. I would like to leave it at that.

    Thank you though xx

  424.  #425Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    I also talked about the most common reasons why single people in the prime of their life have not yet found that kind of true love. It almost always comes down to these 3 main reasons:

    1. Lack of clarity about what you really want from a relationship

    2. Too much physical and emotional clutter blocking true love from entering

    3. Not knowing the right manifestation techniques for raising your “love vibration” and making your dreams a reality


    Indigo I found this helpful

  425.  #426Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 1:07 pm


    “Men DON’T talk to build relationships…they talk in
    order to ACHIEVE something. ”

    That came from T Dub. The way I understand CCarter, he believes the same thing too.

  426.  #427Millie on June 21, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    @Elsie 414

    I do those three things too sometimes…
    It’s ok…don’t beat yourself up to hard.
    Just recognize how you felt doing those things and how you felt with his reactions. It’s a learning about yourself process.
    You’re not alone…

  427.  #428Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “I used to go through these endless feedback loops in my head like you are doing,”

    Elsie I believe it is natural to go through these loops. It is a conscious decision with intentions that helps you to help yourself. First you have to be aware that you won’t fall apart because of the anxiety to connect.

    Can you see how you are calling yourself names here? Can you see if this man choose to connect at the level that you want now, how he might end up calling you these names? You will be unable to stop yourself when these thoughts pop up in your head in front of him. Can you see where doing some inner work could serve you?

    Have you been able to read or watch Eat, Pray, Love yet?

    Can you strip yourself down and really look at yourself in front of a full length mirror?

  428.  #429Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    RE 425 – Yep

    Elsie you are a sweet soul and it is quite normal to want to do this. Millions of us women have been there.

  429.  #430Vi on June 21, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Sophie – 🙂

  430.  #431Hana on June 21, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Thanks Veronica! Tell me about your salsa adventure when you do make it to the club!

  431.  #432Hana on June 21, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    I’m kind of freaking a bit. A texted me, and asked me out for dinner. He said “Hey Hana, how are you doing? How are the kids? I haven’t seen you around at all! Would like to take you to dinner Sat, if you’re free that is? Let me know..”

    AHHHH I don’t know what to do.

  432.  #433Hana on June 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    What an awesome post, I am really learning from that with the new men I am dating. Boundaries are not that easy for me, but I actually have done quite a few of them with some guys in the past not even realizing. Need to hone up on them though. Thanks Mercedes! Thanks Rori!

  433.  #434Zia on June 21, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Heart 341 – the “No girlfriend” speech is a part of the program I don’t agree with, so I don’t use it 🙂

    Again, its up to each of us to decide which parts work and feel right for us to use, and which parts don’t…

  434.  #435Zia on June 21, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Hana – if you want to go, then go! If you’re trying to keep your distance from him for now, then don’t 🙂

  435.  #436elsie on June 21, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    Well he came over one minute after i wrote that. . It was really nic nice. At one. It was really nice. At one point I was noticing how good he lucked and And then h And then he said I can’t make it over tonigh because I’m watching the childre. And I just gave this really flirty smile and said what I have no idea what you’re talking about haha but and it was ver. He then said on his I reached my hand out just to get the connection to him physically because I had not had that in so lon long. We used to hol I reached my hand out just to get the connection to him physically because I had not had that in so long. We used to hold hands or touch each other a or touch each other at work lightly just to get that connection he had already he had already talked to me for an hour and a half and I was at his cubicle now saying goodbye I reached my hand out. Yes you read that right a high five. And I looked at him and withstand. Then he looked at the door and said anyone could come around that corner right now. I was so hurt because everything has gone so well and I really wanted that connection So I said which I should not have but I did ….. He just looked at the door and said anyone could turn that corner at any tim so then I said well I’ll find out the information from you and let me know about Saturday and he smiled and we so then I said well I’ll find out the information from you and let me know about Saturday and he smiled and we said goodbye.. Haha not exactly what I wanted. Thoughts?

  436.  #437elsie on June 21, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Omg. Im never doing talk to text again from my phone lol……

  437.  #438elsie on June 21, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Long story short. Great one and a half hour conversation. He brought up coming over. Awesome. But at the end….when i reached to him he just laughed and slapped my hand because he thought someone might come by. He never d to seemed worried about that. Anyway we are going to try to get together sat night if we can. Thoughts?

  438.  #439Hana on June 21, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Yes, I want to wait Zia. I will not reply, maybe tomorrow and then say I’m busy but maybe we’ll see about next week.


    How are you!?

  439.  #440elsie on June 21, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    I did say to him …. you hurt my feelings. I shouldnt havr but it just came out…..he just said…..well anyone could come around the corner..

    Sorry for this crazy texting……lol.

  440.  #441Zia on June 21, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Heart – re internet dating – I know a LOT of people who have met and are happily married. It all comes down to your mindset when you’re internet dating.

    internet dating is one of THE BEST ways to meet men who are interested in a relationship!

  441.  #442Zia on June 21, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Hana – great plan 🙂
    I’m feeling really positive today!!

  442.  #443Hana on June 21, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    oh Elsie!!

  443.  #444Wildgeranium on June 21, 2013 at 6:01 pm


    You remind me so much of me….

    #438– this is perfect for a post on boundaries…Can you see that he set a boundary? And then you said your feelings were hurt? That will drive him away….

    Have you read Rori’s e-book? It talks about not beating yourself up. It talks about tools you can use to stop your behavior–literally, a tool is to #1-STOP what you are doing (and its taken me about 5 months to be able to do that for myself) and breathe, go into your feelings etc. and it talks about what being a team member looks like. Among many other things.

    Single focus comes into play at work. At work, he is focused on work and whatever task is at hand. Its not personal.

  444.  #445Hana on June 21, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Seahorse, how are you doing??
    I found out who the mysterious texter was. I was right, it was Mr Brazil!

  445.  #446Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    Elsie – all of this just reinforces what Mercedes said some time ago. It seems he cares about the public image of what is happening between you two and also you seem to need a situation where there is no restriction on PDA.

    His image, his career and his reputation is obviously more important to him than you realize. I encourage you to seriously ask yourself how you feel about being somebody’s *secret*. Also if you would feel okay being the other woman.

    That said, I have to admit I do not look office romance. It is too close for comfort for me.

    I also have a couple who work in my office just on different floors. When they are in meetings they sit next to each other, they are married. For the most part though she does not come down to our floor except for work and she hardly goes into his office. They sometimes pass each other on the floor like strangers. They keep it really looking professional in the office. I believe it is something they might have agreed on. She will come to our floor for work related issues, talk to other people and go right back to her floor.

  446.  #447Femininewoman on June 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm


    I do not like office romance

  447.  #448Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    WildGeranium – I realize you dont know the whole story. We have been together a year and a half. Touching me in the office was never a problem until about a month and a half ago or so. He used to initiate it, and even used to kiss me there.

    FW – yes, I think that because his door was open he was nervous about it.

    What I have learned from today:

    1. Dont talk to text and put it on the blog. LOL. Seriously *I* could barely follow the story and I lived it haha!

    2. These last two weeks, he did not “check out” he just was unable to get to me, and his boy time is different than mine.

    3. He initiated the idea of coming over. Even though I flirted and gave him a cute look, he was the one that said “well, I cant come over tonight” and smiled, and then we talked about Sat. and hopefully that will work. If it doesnt, I will know its not because he doesnt want to.

    4. I think he is getting more uncomfortable at work with us touching. I”m not sure why. I”m not sure if I should ask why. I’m thinking of saying something like, I love feeling close to you even in small ways at work physically, but I get the sense that you may have shifted on that – can you help me understand? Something light -not deep. Its ok with me, its not a dealbreaker, but it did make me feel close to him.

    5. I am not sure where this man is in terms of “us” and the future. I know that he is not just in it for S3x. When he comes over Sat. there is a good chance we wont be able to have s3x (I wont say why) but its not a big deal, but just impossible on that date for a health reason. Anyway – the point is that he knows that and still wants to come over for a movie and snuggle. So I dont think anything has changed as far as his feelings to me….but I”m not sure.

    6. I think I”m going to address the high five issue with humor. That is my “go to” for everything. I think if he starts in with me at my house and is romantic. I might just say, oh, I thought we were just giving high fives with a huge smile on my face to tease him. He and I tease each other a lot, so I’m thinking about just making it a joke, and THEN bringing in the fact that I notice that he seems uncomfortable with whatever at work now, and if he can help me understand that….

    7. FW – to answer your question I am 110% percent ok with this being secret at work. I am still married. No one at work knows that I have been separated as long as I have. Until this is all a done deal on BOTH of our parts, we both want this to come out the way WE want it to – not because of anything else. I am MORE than ok with being a secret. 🙂

    We have talked about that in the past, and we have both said – when this started a year or so ago……in a couple of years no one will care. Our timeline is about right on. So my guess is that if my divorce is finalized by November (it takes a long time in my state even if everything is agreed to…..) and his stuff is done by the end of the year, then we will wait a bit longer, maybe several months just so it wont look like it was the cause of the divorce, etc. (thats what *I* want) and so I’m guessing about this time next year, maybe….maybe…..

    Frankly, I would love it if NO ONE in the office EVER knew. I dont know if we will stay together, but if we do – there wont be any office PDA. The only reason I wanted to hold his hand was because it would feel good to feel his touch.

    We used to be much more risky in the office – (not anything crazy, just hand holding or stealing a kiss or a few once in a while….) but now it seems he doesnt want that……I did move offices to a different floor, so that might be the reason.

  448.  #449Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Sorry that was long. And FW – I agree office romances are not ideal. AT all. But it just happened. Neither one of us were looking for it or expecting it. Just saying. 🙂

  449.  #450Turquoise on June 21, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    I like that Mercedes… Not taking it for granted. Very important to remember. 🙂

    Thanks FW! I feel that way too 🙂

    Mr. Conversation called and we met for dinner with our kids, did some shopping and then went back to his house to visit for a little while. I could tell he seemed stressed and asked of he wanted to talk about it. He talked a long time about his work, what he wants to achieve and the stresses that go with it. I really listened, and some of what he shared was do textbook Rori, I have to share!
    He’s worried about being in a relationship (with anyone, not about me) and that person not understanding or supporting his vision, not giving him space the space he needs to work through things, and wanting him to change, to be stable, which to him equates with giving up his dreams. I didn’t say a whole lot, just listened and took it in. He apologized for venting , said he will snap out of it in a few days… But the one thing I shared was that it felt like he just needed a win. When I was leaving he repeated that back to me, gave me a big hug and I will see him tomorrow and Sunday.
    I have to say though, with how fun and spontaneous last night was… I didn’t really feel much emotionally… Nothing triggering, no stress or worry about what would happen. Next or what it meant. I feel different, like I actually just did what I wanted, with no expectation. It’s crazy how different I am from last year. He made a few comments about how things feel different. I realize now, I’m not that invested. WHICH I believe is a result of CDing. C will be home Zmonday, we are getting along great and I’m not screwing that up. We have vacation in 2.5 weeks, I can’t wait ! I’ve got plans for a human trafficking fundraiser tomorrow and will see mr. C on Sunday, but with other really good friends of mine. I have plans. Sweetheart has been in touch, Tom will reach out again… My life feels full. To give a visual, I feel like I have compartments to fill, and everyone else is just getting one small compartment, but most of them, are full already with my wants and needs and I’m not sacrificing them to fill up with others wants and needs. I am finally truly most important to me, and it feels exhilarating!

  450.  #451Milllie on June 21, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    I had a really amazing conversation with my mom last night. I’ve been feeling like I attract unavailable men that just want to f*ck or tell me they would date me if they were single. As a result, I’ve been looking in to myself seeing what kind of vibe I’m putting out to attract these men–essentially, what is WRONG with me?! My mom really put it in perspective for me and said- There is nothing wrong with you, you are you. You ARE magnetic, beautiful, vivacious, and sexy. These men are attracted to you and most often because they are missing that in their own relationships and seek it out. It doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with me. There is something wrong in their own relationships that has nothing to do with me. When she put it that way, I felt so much better. My vibe is wonderful, it is all the things I am! But, I need experience. It feels really good to connect with women, because at the end of the day, we’ve all been in each other’s shoes.

  451.  #452Elsie on June 21, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    I just have to say the book Attached is fantastic. I”m not sure who originally recommended it to me – but I listened to it on my roadtrip and it was FASCINATING. I CAN NOT highly recommend it enough for us sirens.

  452.  #453Wildgeranium on June 21, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Just ordered it on kindle. I’ve got so many good book recommendations from the sirens!!

    Elsie- I had no idea you’ve been dating him a year and a half! That changes the perspective considerably.


  453.  #454Zia on June 21, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    Elise 450 – glad it resonates with you, I found it HUGELY helpful 🙂 xo

  454.  #455Agnes on June 21, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    The ebook is nice but I prefer the CDs, is this possible with the same price of $399.00? If you want the whole set.

  455.  #456elsie on June 21, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Zia…..im anxious but really want to be healthy normal attached. Letting go of some things today is a start for me 🙂

    Wildgeranium….let me know how you like it!!!!

  456.  #457Zia on June 21, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    elise – you can do it! i am very aware of that anxious part of me, and i don’t think it will ever go away. but i think if i find a partner who is more secure then it will help me to become more secure myself. i find a lot of the tools here (and other ones i’ve picked up) are helping a LOT by putting the focus back on me and not making it all about any particular man.

  457.  #458Zara on June 21, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    385 Heart

    0n line vs off line

    “””Marital discord is costly to children, families, and communities.
    The advent of the Internet, social networking, and on-line dating has affected how people meet future spouses, but little is known about the prevalence or outcomes of these marriages or the demographics of those involved.
    We addressed these questions in a nationally representative sample of 19,131 respondents who married between 2005 and 2012.

    Results indicate that more than one-third of marriages in America now begin on-line. In addition, marriages that began on-line, when compared with those that began through traditional off-line venues, were slightly less likely to result in a marital break-up (separation or divorce) and were associated with slightly higher marital satisfaction among those respondents who remained married.

    Demographic differences were identified between respondents who met their spouse through on-line vs. traditional off-line venues, but the findings for marital break-up and marital satisfaction remained significant after statistically controlling for these differences.
    These data suggest that the Internet may be altering the dynamics and outcomes of marriage itself.”””


  458.  #460Zara on June 21, 2013 at 10:37 pm


    “”” The computer systems graduate who founded the website – which now has a turnover of more than $10m (£6.6m) a year – in 2003, said he now wants it to now focus on ‘meaningful relationships.’ “””



  459.  #461Zara on June 21, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Question asked in his forum by Marcus, creator of Plentyoffish

    “””How bad is the intimate encounter like messages for women in the UK? I know from the administration side the UK is by far the most pervy of any country.”””

    I can’t post links any more, I think. I am going to try to cut it in part as follow: