What Do I Know About Love? Grief And Gratitude

Untitled design (14)

I’m as not-knowing now as I was long ago.

Yes, now I know some things that I didn’t know then. I know about some vitamins and supplements I didn’t know about then. I know not to take personally some things people say to me.

I know a bit more about myself, and I may know a bit more about others.

But – truly – I’m not any smarter than I ever was.

And being “sure” of anything, or feel “knowing” about anything is just some smoke-and-mirrors job my brain is doing.

And, the kicker is: It’s the same brain I’ve always used.

The truth is – we can’t solve anything now with the same brain that got us where we are. Yes, it may be more refined, mature and knowledgeable, that brain of ours – but it’s as steeped in knowing nothing really as it ever was.

Not because it’s not wonderful – but because it’s based on all the wrong things.

My brain is based on my experience. It’s based on my life-so-far. On “knowledge.”

And my experience is unique to me, my knowledge is gathered by my brain, and most of the time, the data it consumes and the solutions it spits out are mired in that experience and knowledge.

The answers are all in the unknown.

And if it’s the unknown – then – how can I know what that’s going to look like, feel like, be like…?

I can’t.

All I can be is willing and available and open to allowing it to come into my life. No matter what it looks like.

Or what I think about it.

Because – What I think is pretty irrelevant, here.

I have clients whose “checklist” for what they want in a man is so deep into their system, that they become physically nauseous in the company of a man who doesn’t fit the checklist.

I have clients and know women who INSIST they are right about who and what they want, and the direction they’re going in. These women are very sure about what they want from me…and from my point of view – it’s usually exactly what isn’t getting them what they ultimately want.

When I feel guilt and begin to punish myself and think back to what I could have done better...

…I go through a process of bouncing around “trying” to reason with myself on a lot of levels…ANYTHING to make myself feel better…even if it’s hammering myself over the head…until I get to the point of grief.

Once I get to grief – I can feel.

And – we’re ALWAYS in grief!

Whenever we’re “In Transit” – which is always – we’re leaving behind something we thought we knew and embarking on something we don’t know anything about, haven’t experienced before, are afraid of, and are not sure we can manage.

It’s like the monkey bars in the childhood sandbox. When you let go of one bar, and swing to the next – there’s a moment where you’re not sure you can hold onto that new bar. And sometimes you can’t – you fall to the sand.

And there’s grief.

And – even if we make it to the new bar – there’s grief about saying goodbye to the old one.

So – for me – this is all about making peace with grief. With goodbyes.

Goodbye to old thoughts we once counted on.

Goodbye to old feelings we once experienced 100’s of times a day.

Goodbye to old situations we felt comfortable in, and sure of our status in (even if it was painful).

Goodbye to people we felt tied to.

Goodbye to ideas, concepts, projections into the future, accomplishments – to everything we thought we knew about.

And – there’s nothing to hold onto when you’re In Transit – the new bar often doesn’t even materialize when we expect it to! And it’s slippery and different than we imagined it!

So – what to do?

Make peace with grief.

  1. When you feel it, go…ahhhh…that’s it. That’s the feeling I was avoiding.
  2. Now accept it. Accept the feeling, and accept what’s right in front of you – what IS.
  3. Accept the person, the situation, your own thoughts and feelings – everything just as it is.
  4. Now just take a very slow step forward with your body.
  5. Lay down if you have to, and just move around a bit.
  6. Breathe into your belly.
  7. When your mind fixates on something….accept it, make peace with it, and allow it to float away like a cloud until the next “sureness” comes along for you to accept, make peace with, and allow to float away.
  8. Take another step.

Living your life with no thoughts in your mind that stick and stay, and with feelings in your gut that come and go and filter through and float away (even if they feel bad and painful sometimes as they come and go) – that’s the way to live your life ALIVE.

Grief is there to heal you. See if allowing it to be just as it is makes it possible for you to envision the possibility of another monkey bar out there you never, ever conceived of before.

Take the opportunity, whatever it is, however you feel.

Love is there all around you. What we do to block it is way more interesting to discover than living from a “search” for a love that already exists. Love you. Love everything about you. Even grief. And watch as a new, fresh, unexplainable, unknown life unfolds before you one moment at a time.

The next step is Gratitude.

There’s been SO much written about gratitude – and, for me, if I try to go to Gratitude before I feel and accept Grief – my brain rejects it, my body rejects it – and instead of feeling better, I just attack myself and go to “guilt.”

I’ll write more about Gratitude, and for now…try the Grief Steps – and then, when you’re feeling and accepting the grief, move your thoughts gently to some things you really can feel grateful for:

That person is alive.

You’re alive.

You have something to eat.

You have something that feels good – health today, a friend, a job you like, an ability or gift you have (we ALL have these – go unearth YOURS!)…something that feels good, and feels like it belongs to you and that you WANT to OWN it.

Let me know how this process feels to you…

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Daria on October 17, 2011 at 7:02 am

    one time!

  2.  #2Femininewoman on October 17, 2011 at 7:04 am

    Gratitude is high vibrational so I love to practice it.

  3.  #3Emoticon on October 17, 2011 at 7:07 am


  4.  #4Emoticon on October 17, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Not too bad I like the number 3

  5.  #5Daria on October 17, 2011 at 7:14 am

    im always searching for that amazing feeling of being noticed and seen in the night light, on the dance floor,

    in the wild celebration

    i feel guilt that im so searching for this thrill and holding on for it

    thinking i won’t have it feels so sad and sinking

    i love me

    and my sadness

    i know this sadness

    i felt it before

    hi sadness

    good im feeing it

    im alive

  6.  #6Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Wow I resonate with this because I’ve felt that way in the past…”trying” to feel grateful but feeling guilty and bad instead because I hadn’t dealt with the grief part. Thank you Rori.

  7.  #7Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 7:18 am

    Hi Daria, Emoticon and FW. 🙂 I feel thankful for all of you.

  8.  #8Daria on October 17, 2011 at 7:19 am


    “Here is a list of the some of the insights I have had while tapping recently. Every now and then I like to come back and tap to the insights from the tapping.

    [PS: This is also a great way to end a tapping sessions. Just state what you have learned and this reinforces the learning and the change.]

    ● I have more needs than I care to admit.
    ● If I work on this every day (or regularly) progress is inevitable.
    ● Sometimes when things don’t work out we find new better things.
    ● Some issues and tasks are made harder by avoiding them.
    ● Even if people who are close to me don’t appreciate the work I am doing it can and will be appreciated in other places by other people.
    ● It is good (and serves others) when I am following my dreams.
    ● It is hard for people who are wounded for them not to act out of their wound.
    ● I can’t assume I understand what really happened and what others really think (and it usually doesn’t make any difference for
    my well being whether I do or not – Pat)
    ● I can’t assume others understand me. (I need to understand and care for myself – Pat).
    ● I am better at what I do than I give myself credit for.
    ● One easy change I can make is to work on change everyday.
    ● Physical health can be improved with lots of small choices – it doesn’t have to be massive workout routines.
    ● It is good I am making this change now.
    ● I don’t have to do everything in my life alone to move forward. There are lots of people I can partner with.
    ● Just because I have been stuck for a very long time doesn’t mean I have to stay stuck in the future.
    ● I am open to change happening in a way that is unexpected and surprisingly easy.
    ● (I am open to surprises even though the day is almost over – Pat)
    ● When I give myself the benefit of the doubt it is easier to give others the benefit of the doubt.
    ● Wanting the best for others is not about wanting less for me.
    ● My complete focus on a single outcome can lead me to miss other better outcomes.

    (Insights such as these are so valuable because they are exactly what YOU need, emerging as you tap – Pat)

    About Gene Monterastelli”

  9.  #9Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 7:20 am

    I feel totally blank right now. I have no potential prospective CDs at the moment whatsoever. Recycled is on his way to being bumped off the list completely, I’m not feeling connected to him at all right now.

  10.  #10VW on October 17, 2011 at 8:06 am

    What a great timing for this blog…thank u Rori …

    warm hugs

  11.  #11Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 8:09 am


    This is DEEP stuff! I am going to have to digest it. And it is right where I am at with two huge internal shifts recently!

    As always, I am repeatedly amazed by your brilliance! Thank you so much for sharing yourself with us! You are beautiful!

    Love, Esteemed

  12.  #12Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 8:14 am


    RE: #5 – I find myself looking for attention, acceptance, and approval, also. For me, I think it stems from feeling so steadily disapproved growing up. I feel it most intensely when I am in the presence of leaders.

    For example, last night during a brief conversation with my pastor, I was virtually trembling with nervousness, and I was anything but smooth and graceful in my hand movements.

    Little by little, I am learning to shift that need for approval, acceptance, and attention to God and myself, not to any person. I love to become my best self. Growing and becoming are getting fun, not frustrating!

    And Daria, from the bottom of my heart, I see such deep growth in you, and I feel grateful for the opportunity to read your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs! I learn so much from you!

  13.  #13Daria on October 17, 2011 at 8:48 am

    :). Thank u esteemed.

    Shifting that craving to the divine feels Exciting to think about

    I just shifted my desire for thrill inward and I got an idea to make music and dance powerfully with emphatic movements

    Thank u for sharing

  14.  #14Daria on October 17, 2011 at 8:49 am

    I sometimes find myself trembling also

  15.  #15Megan on October 17, 2011 at 9:21 am

    just on time 🙂
    thank you Rori

  16.  #16Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 10:08 am

    It feels bad when my Dad snaps at me. I really took it hard today, I don’t know why he has to be like that. I am trying to tell myself that it’s about him and not about me. But it makes me want to avoid him altogether. At least I can stick up for myself now and I told him not to talk to me that way.

  17.  #17Femininewoman on October 17, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Emerson I use “I don’t want to be spoken like that”.

  18.  #18Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Thanks FW.

  19.  #19alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 11:00 am

    19th!!!!! Suckers!

  20.  #20Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 11:02 am

    AG you are funny 🙂

  21.  #21Senior Lady Vibe on October 17, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Hello, world. I’m thankful for beautiful weather today.


  22.  #22Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 11:25 am

    I don’t have to feel defeated, depressed, and overwhelmed anymore!

  23.  #23Lilly on October 17, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Dear Rori,

    I have been following your blog now for a couple years and have found many things that apply to my life and have made many changes around the way I deal with men and my dating life improved tremendously as a result. I walked away from men who were not stepping up and some who were even verbally abusive. I simply would not accept bad behavior and better men started showing up just like you said they would.
    So I want to thank you wholeheartedly for your work. I am 57, have had a couple marriages, and have been single for the last ten years.

    I am now in a situation that I am not sure how to proceed. A man I met online from three states away moved to my state to be with me, walked away and left his house vacant (to be fixed and rented later) and bought us a house to live in here in my town. He has asked me to marry him more than once and yet when I said yes, no date is set or plans made. We have been together now for eleven months. I moved in with him two months ago. My home here is too small for both of us, (will rent it out) hence the necessity for a bigger one. And while all this seems like he is serious and quite a lot of effort on his part for a man to do for a woman-move out of state, buy a house, etc.,, I keep remembering your article about none of that means anything – it is how we FEEL in his presence. And I am feeling wary.

    He is a man who keeps all his ex girlfriends as “friends”. He has a string of them and most of them live out of state. To be fair, I also have a couple male friends. One is an ex lover from many years ago, so I can hardly ask him to not have women in his life. That seems unfair when I have other men I stay in touch with. However, his female “friends” all keep in contact with him through email, etc. and a lot more often than I talk to my male friends. There is always email in his box from someone every day it seems. And he does not hide this fact. He insists they are all “friends”. His ex wife from over 40 years ago still sends him birthday cards. (They have 3 adult children together and are still “friends”.(he is almost 70, but very young acting and physically active) He even had a fling with her about a year ago (right around the time we met online) but that ended. This same ex wife is one of many women who all had “relationships” with him at the same time about three years go.

    He was living in a “poly” community and he had 3 women he “shared”. (This was on his property here in my state only five hours away.The plan was to have a poly homestead type of living arrangement at the time but it all fell apart.) His ex moved back to her home down south (but left her trailer on his land), one woman has since moved away as well, and one is still living on his property in a mobile trailer ( he has a trailer there as well and so does his ex wife). I do not know if she will ever move or if he really wants her to although he says he does. These are all college educated women with money, as am I except for the lots of money part.

    Apparently he broke up with this woman who still lives on his land, but he must have felt guilty about it after she put time in and money and effort into the place-(so he says) so he told her she could stay there. She put work into gardens, greenhouses, etc. He left her after a year or three (still unclear on how long they were together) and told her he no longer was in love with her but she could stay there until she made other arrangements. (She has plenty of money so that isn’t the issue) In fact she offered him several thousand dollars as recently as two months ago, to help him put up a building on the property and he declined it. So it appears she is not “making other arrangements”. And is planning to stay there. The building would store her stuff and she would pay rent to him. She also has furniture and many of her things still in his stick built house three states away and used to live there with him as well.

    About two weeks ago, after I get almost all the way moved in here, I find out that he has never told this woman who lives on his property about me. I was really upset because I thought she knew all along. We had a fight over it. This issue has come up before. I have been a “secret” to his ex wife as well up until 2 or 3 months ago, but only after I insisted he “out me” because I did not want to be kept a secret. He says he told he about me. But I wonder.
    He doesn’t like to tell people his business he says.

    I told him I felt disrespected and lied to and played, and that if I had known that this woman who lives on his land didn’t know about me, I would have never moved in with him or shop for a house together. He said he didn’t want to “hurt her feelings” whatever that means. It seems dishonest to me. Like he is using her, keeping her on a string, and having someone to oversee his place and take care of it while he is somewhere else. Or still have a shag available whenever he goes there? And it isn’t fair to her either. And I told him this. She needs that information to move on with her life or not. She is being misled and as long as she thinks he is single she may be hoping for a future thing, especially since she stays there regardless of whether they are together now. Or maybe she is ok with the occasional shag when he shows up although he swears he does not sleep with her.
    He has asked me to marry him more than once. But now I wonder if he is just saying what he thinks I want to hear. (sales job on me or so he thinks) During our fight I told him I thought it was not cool what he had done by keeping me a secret, and that apparently he cared more for her “feelings” than mine. He said that was “cuntish thing to say”. I don’t engage in name calling, I think it is abusive and childish. But I know that what I said is not the way to handle it at all. I tried to remain calm and give him a speech, but I was caught off guard and shocked that he continued to keep me a secret after I protested the first time with his exwife. So I was hurt and pretty upset and could not be calm.

    I walked out the door at that point, rather that stay and argue, and went back to my house (the bed is still over there) and stayed the night. He does not like talking about this at all (well of course not!) and has told me that he has now told the woman on his property that he is “seeing someone”. Well living with a woman and asking her to be married is a little more than “seeing someone”. Ever since that night I have taken off my engagement ring and not worn it. But I have continued to move my things in and we talk of the future. But I am uneasy.
    As a result of this now I am always wondering who he is talking to online or email and what he is being dishonest with them about and me. I do not trust him now and this feels awful. He swears there is nothing going on with anyone else. And there may not be, but this feels terrible to me. I feel deceived and played.

    We were talking about his property the other night (he is going by there to visit friends, etc. on his way back up here) and I casually mentioned that I still did not like the fact that I have never seen the place. And he said “Then why don’t you shut the fu*k up about it?” (jokingly) He says it’s just barren ground with nothing to see but trailers and nothing to see and boring. (It’s five acres in the middle of nowhere). But SHE is there and he doesn’t want me to be there with her there is the issue. He did invite me there one weekend (when she was going to be gone at a conference) but when I asked if she would be there he said no, and I declined. So the issue is his awkwardness and not wanting me there. Who knows what he has told her about why he is here. Of course he would not want the two of there there at the same time. I have been tempted to write to her on facebook and explain who I am, but have not done that. I do not want to act like a twelve year old. But maybe I should tell her if he won’t.

    I could just move out and back into my house however awful that would be. But that seems somehow dramatic and extreme. And it has taken me 6 weeks to move all my stuff in to this house, and I cannot afford to pay movers to move me out. But I am angry and this is not resolved and I do not know how to approach this with him. He is at his stick built house three states away right now taking care of some things, seeing his aging sick parents, and loading up some of his stuff on a trailer to move it up here, so he says he is serious about our relationship and what man would move three states away, give up his house to rent, move stuff and not be serious about it? It seems like a huge pain to do all of that, if he is not going to take the relationship seriously. He says he will be faithful and true and after his experience with three women all at the same, he has had enough of that (too much stress and drama for him) and just wants one woman to settle down with. I do not know what to believe. He was married to two different women for 16 years each so he can commit if he wants to. But-
    He is a very smooth talker and always has a logical explanation for everything he does. His job is in marketing- and the irony of that is not lost on me. Good bullslinger and sales person and I don’t like him trying to “get one over on me” like he has recently done. I feel like he has tried to control and manage all the outcomes to his advantage. But of course why wouldn’t he if he could get away with that? Like you said why wouldn’t we want four lovers all at once? Yet, Can I ever trust what he tells me with regard to other women? I don’t like having to wonder all the time, it feels terrible and living in doubt is the worst thing ever and I won’t do that ever again.

    I have trust issues from my past (my dad cheated on my mom, ex husband cheated on me, etc) and yet having said that I have been with other men who had a very “colorful” past and never once worried about what they did when away from me. But they didn’t have ex’s living on their property either. It’s a weird sort of vibe I can’t seem to shake with this one. When I ask him how he would feel if an ex lived at my house he just shrugs and says he would trust me because I would have my reasons! So infuriating and I find that hard to believe! Sounds like manipulation to me. So I feel very confused, don’t want to ruin what we have, as he is one of the few men I have ever dated that I feel comfortable in other ways around, is smart and sexy and lots of other good things. But like you said how do I feel around him? Not safe, and not secure. And yet he is here (works from home) every day and goes to bed with me at night.

    I know threats do not work, giving him an ultimatum certainly does not work. (Get rid of her or else I am leaving!) moving my stuff out is not an option right now, as I am exhausted already from THIS move and have a family member in the hospital as well, so I am stressed to the max.

    Part of me wants to say to him that he can just pay to have all my shit moved back until he gets this resolved. But he doesn’t see there is any issue. He wants to be able to have me and have all this contact with other women too. And says it is my problem basically if she lives there because there is nothing going on. He is trying to make this all me as if my past history and betrayals makes it so that I do not trust him no matter what he does. Well how convenient for him to make that my fault so he can abdicate any responsibility for his own actions! I feel manipulated like he gets a pass and I have to just do things his way. But this is not right what he is doing.

    I feel like I know what you are going to say. That I need to just move back into my house and have no contact but that doesn’t feel good either. I am at a loss as how to craft a “speech” or what to do at this point. He is “holding the power” currently and that needs to be turned around and I don’t know how to do that. Help!


  24.  #24alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    23 lily to stay in a situation where i felt like what is described

    to continue to stay…. i might feel like

    i was trapped. that i was making decisons from scarcity thinking and fear.

    and yet i know how scary it is to have set my sights on a man. and to have combined lives with him to the point that living arrangements are involved.

    i dont have any advice. i am just describing how i feel after reading (skimming) the scenario.

    i dont know. it sounds like a delicate, tricky situation.

    it sounded like you feel resentful, wary, distrustful, disrespecting, scared, jealous, insecure, not cared for, unheard and a lot of other negative emotions.

    anyway i feel glad you are here. i hope someone answers you.

    also i encourage practicing roris tools.

  25.  #25alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    does it make me sad that i spent time on my nails last night and they look like total barf?

    no. i dont feel sad about it.

    i really like this one color.

    but yeah, was a waste of time.

    ah well.

  26.  #26alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    a cd asked told me he had called and left a message.

    i told him i felt insecure and isolated all weekend.

    HOW THAT DOES NOT DRIVE A MAN AWAY is beyond my comprehension.

    he asked if i was ok and that he hopes to hear from me.

    he’s really cute too.

    i feel amazed at my honesty and the response.

    like rori says

    be willing to be surprised.

  27.  #27alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    oh and i was watching the most mcfreaky things on youtube last night

    about bending reality

    and the nature of this dimenstion

    and how when you die all this just feels like a distant dream. like when you wake from a night’s slumber and you kind of remember your dream

    this guy said that is how life will feel like once you “die”

    i feel scared to die.

    not as much as i used to be

    but still a lot.

    ALSO he said if you do die in this life and you arent done

    you have a choice to continue on in this same life

    only it would be an alternate dimension or something

    it was really mind expanding

    and i am still thinking about it

    that and lady gaga

    not really about lady gaga lol.

  28.  #28Femininewoman on October 17, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Lily for the first time being here I can say I feel really very scared reading about someone else’s situation. I don’t believe people change, at least not unless they really want and choose to.

  29.  #29Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Lilly thank you for sharing about your situation. I don’t have any advice for you either, but I can identify with the feelings you are having.
    It feels bad to be wary about a person I’m with once they’ve betrayed me. It feels like a burden and chokey in my throat. I’m not as invested as you are in your situation, but I’m going thru a similar scenario with a man who I was giving the benefit of the doubt to and now I know I’m pretty sure he’s not going to change. .
    I feel bad and sad about it but I also feel liberated in a way.
    It’s helped a lot to talk to the gals here on the blog about it and just dump out my thoughts/feelings.
    Hugs and warm thoughts to you Lilly….

  30.  #30Emoticon on October 17, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Thank You Daria, i feel grateful for all of you here too. You’re so sweet!

  31.  #31Ella on October 17, 2011 at 1:23 pm


    So it is time for a Siren Chat.

    I need some Siren wisdom and clarity.

    CD1 (the one who I have been feeling suspicious of who has a live in, apparently ex, girlfriend), well I got to speak to him on the phone over the weekend and I told him how I was feeling.

    Suspicious and mistrustful, and then bad for feeling that way.

    Well he said he wanted to alleviate my worries. Some of the stuff he said was that he had told me cus he just wanted to be honest with me and now it looked as though that honesty could cause him to lose me.

    He said that made him feel sad and its not what he wants however he didn’t want to push me.

    He said he has already told his ex about me, and he could see a future with me if I wanted.

    He told me to take some time to think and then tell him what I wanted to do.

    Well I just went back to expressing feelings. Later I said to him I am willing to keep dating him IF there is a way to make me feel good and trusting.

    He has continued with regular calls and texts and requests to meet since.

    Today he invited me to go and see him where he works, which is near to where I live.

    Usually I wouldn’t go to a man however on this occasion I wanted to see if it would make me feel anymore secure and I could perhaps get more of a sense of what kind of person he is, and also whether he has been honest about his work.

    Well his work is exactly what he said it was.

    Also, he had a large plaster on his finger (where he crushed it and took some skin off the other day when he cancelled our date last minute due to being at A&E) so either he is a very serious liar, or he was telling the truth about that.

    The plaster looked old (like he has been wearing it for a while rather than one he had just put on).

    So far the things he has told me all seem to check out.

    So I feel curious about why I feel so suspicious of him.

    I wonder if it is just cus he has a live in ex, or because the man in the petrol station said something like ‘he is a flirt and a bit of a ladies man’ when he saw us talking..

    Or whether it is my intuition?

    I still feel confused.

    In his company I feel GREAT. Like just comfortable and nice.

    Sometimes a bit overwhelmed/uncomfortable because he wants me and he is always kinda coming at me somehow… energy wise.

    And I figure it is good practice for me receiving.

    And today I let him hold me. He always wants to cuddle me, and when he holds me it feels good. His arms feel strong and I feel like I can melt into him.

    And when he is talking to me often he is kinda touching me or absent mindedly stroking my hand and when he holds me he massages my back…

    Today I let him kiss me a little bit. He is gentle but strong.

    It feels amazing and still all the time I had a NV saying ‘he knows how to make you feel good and relaxed because this is what he does, he is a ladies man!!’

    Which made it harder to relax.

    And every now and again I would need some distance between us and I would playfully push him away again.

    Of course there is one way he could solve it easily, and that would be by taking me to his house when his ex is there, because if she sees us together I will know that she knows, and therefore he is not trying to deceive me.

    However I don’t feel comfortable to suggest this… would feel massively like leaning forward and managing/controlling.

    So for now I am still feeling confused.

    And I feel afraid, of devloping feelings for him and then finding out he was just playing, or wanted a mistress, or is still with his ex or something.

    These are the scary thoughts in my head.

    And I feel afraid, of being deceived, lied to, of getting hurt, of falling into an imaginary relationship.

    And I still feel confused… and suspicious.


  32.  #32Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm


    Cringe, nausea, feel blood flow out of my limbs and blood pressure drop, player red alert, liar red alert, disrespector red alert sounding, noooooooooooo screaming in my brain!!! Protectiveness welling up in my heart wanting to yell, “Lilly! Get out! Get out, get out, get out!!!”

    Skip the details. I ASSURE you…this man does NOT have your best interests in mind, and he WILL hurt you. I give you my 100% guarantee on that. He feels slimy. You just can’t get a grip on him. I wonder how many wives he STILLL has?? I wonder how many women he is playing SIMULTANEOUSLY.

    Sorry to say this, but he most assuredly does not love you. He has his own selfish motives. My guess is he hates women, and I know that is a judgment but I don’t care. Maybe he wants your money? Maybe he wants to f*ck any old time he feels like it, so he keeps a harem of women on the string?

    Lilly, even if it costs every penny you have and all your property, PLEASE GET OUT IMMEDIATELY.

    Love, E

  33.  #33MiRi on October 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    hi all,

    I’d love to read your advice to Lilly, I feel blessed I can rely on this blog, I so can relate to your FM.

  34.  #34English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Well ladies things are pretty hotting up between me and LD (American man) I have spent a fair bit of time over the weekend on Skype webcamming having a bit of a laugh and stuff, he has told me he is still in love with me and has never gotten over me……….sooooo who knows where this will lead………maybe nowhere…………and I am SOOOO not attached to the outcome as I once was……….I can barely believe this is me who is talking if you know what a crumbtaker I was in the past with this man crack man lol.

    I DO NOT need my daily fix of man crack like I once did and that is a HUGE relief………..I am quite OK talking now and then………….and if he comes here for a visit…..he comes here and if he doesn’t I will NOT die of my once junkie like behaviour. 🙂 Even *I* cannot believe how far I have come and I know for sure it is all this RR stuff and the support/love on Siren Island. 😀

  35.  #35alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    32 esteemed

    what is always interesting to me is that your response, mine, Fw’s etc

    are all based in information Lilly, herself, gave us. all we know of this situation is her perspective.

    and so on some level, lilly, you already know how this is working for you.

    this man could be a stellar, prince charming, honorable man… but how you FEEL about the situation is what is important.

    and based on what was written, it doesnt sound good.

    and how could anyone outside of this situation know more than lilly?

    maybe lilly is just asking for courage? confirmation?

    lilly i feel curious what it is you are looking for?

    are you seeking advice based on what to do in the awful situation described?

    i feel curious what advice, you, lilly would give a friend in a similar situation.

    if a friend comes to me though i never want to tell them to go one way or the other. i just want to support them in the best feeling-decision for themselves.

    even if they were choosing to stay with an abuser i wouldnt say leave.

    the person already knows its abusive.

    so the only solution in my mind is to guide them back to their feelings and SELF-ESTEEM and like rori says

    is this part of your happy ever after?

  36.  #36Ella on October 17, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Hey Lilly,

    I just read your post and it has similiarities to the one I am in with one of my CDs at the moment, except that I am in no way as far in as you.

    I don’t have any definite answers either except that I think I have read some Rori stuff about this type of situation that is along the lines of don’t worry about being reasonable or what seems fair or logical, just go with your feelings totally. So if you feel freaked out by him having contact with other women you express this.

    And it is his job to fix it.

    No matter whether he thinks its a big deal or you are being reasonable, because these are your feelings and you are his woman.

    And if he doesn’t you have to decide if it is a dealbreaker. Ie: if nothing ever changes can you live like this? Does it feel unbearable if nothing changes.

    If the answer is yes and he is unwilling to fix it or listen then you have your answer.

    And if the answer is no it is not a dealbreaker and he is unwilling to fix it then you would need to be able to drop it completely and let it go. So if this is what you decide then it is finding a way of dealing with your feelings and doubts/NVs.

    I would suggest take your time.

    Nothing has to be done ‘urgently’. Sometimes if we can get some space, and take care of ourselves, that allows the space for the answer to come.

    In the meantime you could do some CD-ing, in some shape or form, to calm down your vibe and give you some perspective, and also maybe to even out the balance of the relationship in your mind.

    After all if you are getting loads of male attention you may not feel as worried about his contact with women (or you may still be bothered by it – I think I would be) AND you never know, if you are CD-ing he may come to realise how it feels to have to share his woman’s attention and may find some sympathy for your feelings around this.

    Maybe CD in some way, shape or form, even if just flirting, until he sets a date for the wedding.

    By the way if he sets a date would that change anything or would you still feel weird about the ex on his property and the other women he has contact with, or would you feel ok then?

    Just curious.


  37.  #37Lilly on October 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Alias girl-

    I don’t know what I am asking for. Advise, input opinion of what to do. It is hard to know when one is in the middle of a situation that cause them pain. Of course I feel bad. I feel betrayed, lied to, disrespected, all of those things you mentioned. And I am PISSED off that he would let me move in, and then I find out all of this after the fact!
    So are you saying this situation feels like he is abusive?
    Maybe it is. I guess I would feel extreme embarrassment to pick up and move now, after telling all my friends about him and now this. I feel like a fool and I feel angry he would treat me in this way and act so cavalier about it. I feel because he has money he can travel and have three houses and do whatever the heck he wants and that feels bad too. It feels bad that I now do not trust him. I feel like maybe this was a red flag before and I did not see it coming. Maybe no matter what I do, I will end up with a man who won’t be right for me and disrespect me feelings.

    I am confused and hurting and yes lacking in courage right now. I don’t know what to say to him. I only know this feels terrible to me what he has done.

  38.  #38English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    #31 Ella

    I believe you are over analyizing here………….how about getting out of your head and into your heart?

    Of course I am no expert but I see all these kind of issues popping up, is this man really going to put on a fake bandage? Well yes maybe but no but if yeah, but no but maybe well ya know what I mean…….,

  39.  #39English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    What I am saying is…………..would he even be bothered?

  40.  #40Ella on October 17, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Esteemed re 32.

    Really? Wow.

    It feels like such a strong reaction.

    And it makes me wonder, is this what all Sirens really think about Lily’s situation? If they are being totally honest?

    I feel afraid because then it makes me think my CD must be the same.

    He is all the things you said about Lilly’s man in the post!


    But I don’t know that at all.



    However maybe it is like Alias Girl says, which is that none of the details matter – ONLY the feelings.

    So HE could be Prince Charming perfect. And if Lilly feels bad with him then it is no good for her.

    OR, he could have a whole hareem of women AND for some women they might feel ok with this! So for them that would be ok (although my guess is this would not feel ok for most women).

    So then it is back to our feelings again.

    And currently mine with CD1 are still suspicious.

    So if that remains the same I suppose I have my answer and I will need to put in some boundaries.

    I feel for Lilly who is already moved in with this guy, as it makes it all that much more intense.

    However no situation is un-doable.

    Lilly will find a way to take good care of herself.

    I moved 5 times in the last year because I found I was unhappy with the situations I lived in.

    I now feel happy about where I live.

    Hmmm, interesting stuff.

    Hugs to Lilly.


  41.  #41alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    37 lilly ((((hugs)))) you are in the right place.

    i can not label a situation that i am not in “abusive” or not.

    i just found it curious that all we have is your perspective and reading it does NOT feel good.

    but we are reading it from YOUR perspective. so imagine you are not feeling good.

    i mean, you still have your home to move back to. whether it is a temporary move or not. it is an option.

    you say you have been doing roris work for years. did you give him the “no girlfriend” speech?

    why is the perspective i am reading feel like he has YOUR power. and by doing this people often feel degraded and confused and stuck and humiliated… etc.

    cding is about keeping our own goddess needs right up front and center.

    as it should be.

  42.  #42Susan on October 17, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    RE: 31: Ella:

    My Sweet Man was also a player and a ladies man… And is now devoted to me. If someone has a history of not committing easily, I don’t think it necessarily means he can’t commit. But men like this require lots of room and time to make their own decisions. As long as you two are communicating and you are also CDing, things seem okay. I’d be suspicious too! But then again, I lived with my ex husband for a year after he told me he wanted a divorce and we were seeing other people and NOTHING went on between us.

    Be aware. Pay attention to every little thing and don’t make him your world until after he makes you his.

  43.  #43Ella on October 17, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    EW lol,

    Yeah… I do know what you mean!

    Ok, in my heart I feel



    And Supiscious.

    And I don’t know if this is because he is coming at me and I am afraid of intimacy OR because there is real danger here and my intincts are trying to keep me safe!!

    So I feel confused.

    I my heart I would love to sink into this and let his love wash all over me.

    And I feel SO AFRAID!

    Do you know I once had a guy who came over from the USA and pretended to be an American Football Player. He dated me for the week he was here, treated me like a Princess and didn’t even try to sleep with me.

    When he got back to the USA he contacted me and began making plans to come back and visit me again.

    Meantime I looked up his team and discovered that it was all fabrication.

    His story was detailed… like he showed me the ‘football injury’ scars and told me in depth stories with details about games he’d played, properties he had out there etc etc…

    I mean seriously I couldn’t dream it up if I tried.

    It turned out to be ALL LIES.

    Another man I had a 3 month (probably imaginary) relationship with, who I did sleep with, and he also lied about EVERYTHING. From his job, to where he lived to the fact that he was single and wanted me…

    He is the one who I saw out on NYE with another woman when he said he was out of town. The one who then hid from me and then ran away.

    There were red flags with both these men, small things that didn’t add up, however I didn’t think people could actually lie to that extent. And gave them the benefit of the doubt.

    So I feel afraid.

    I am obviously no good at telling when men are lying to me, and have been known to draw in ones who do… so, how do I know this is any different?

    What is the difference here?

    Maybe my heart is saying ‘put in a boundary about not seeing him till he is no longer living with ex’ or maybe that is my head.

    I don’t friggin know!


  44.  #44VW on October 17, 2011 at 2:22 pm


    “Be aware. Pay attention to every little thing and don’t make him your world until after he makes you his.”

    I love your advice to Ella. It speaks to me today as well…

    I admit though feeling resistant to paying attention to every little thing…:( there is somehting in it for me to heal…:(

    I am not having a good day…my heart feels shuttered to pieces…

    I recall you being able to read dreams…

    I had one…being in a train…don’t recall much details…just an unsettling feeling…and also loosing two luggages…and many women a part of the dream that i don’t know…:(

    I intend to pay attention to my dreams like I once used to…

    warm hugs,

  45.  #45Ella on October 17, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Ok in my heart I want to melt.

    I feel resistant to him.

    I feel good with him.

    I feel like I have had enough of being alone.

    I just want to be taken care of now.

    I feel strong attracted to him (only as of today when he was holding me, not when I first met him and not strongly, stongly on 1st date either).

    I feel turned on.

    I feel curious.

    I feel drawn.

    And I feel RESISTANT.

    And angry!

    That is something that has been coming up. I have been feeling angry at him!


    I feel ok right now.

    I little like I need a shower.

    And frustrated cus I want to know now!! Lol.

    slightly tight in tummy.

    And I feel romantic.

  46.  #46Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Alias Girl LOL,

    RE: #35,

    MOST of the relationships I was ever in were abusive. I wish to God someone had told me they were, and told me to get out.

    I was used to being abused in childhood, so for decades, no alarms went off! I was only criticized, not lovingly guided. It has taken me 2.5 years of MAJORING IN RORI RAYE to get to a place where I recognize and run from abuse!!! And I’m STILL struggling with a mildly emotionally abusive relationship with K!

    It’s like you see someone being burned who has lost all sensation for whatever reason. You don’t just stand there and gently coax them while their hand is sizzling! You scream at them to run!

    Or it’s like you see someone with Charles Manson creeping up behind them with a hunting knife! You don’t just say, “Er, um, excuse me, but it is a strong possibility that you are about to be murdered. I hope you don’t mind me stating my opinion!” They’d be dead by then! If you believe a murder is taking place, ACT like it’s murder!

    This woman is being “killed softly” while “he is strumming her pain with his fingers.”

    I haven’t walked in your shoes, and you haven’t walked in mine. But if you were so messed up by a man that you were playing with the idea of murdering YOURSELF for days, as I was, then you don’t take it lightly when subversive, Machiavillian abuse is going on.

    The woman is asking for advice. I stick to just stating my experience on this blog for the most part. But when I see someone on the fast track to murder, I say it like it is, and I don’t apologize for that!

  47.  #47Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Lilly, Ella, and anyone else who feels weird and mistrustful with a man…

    Trust your gut feelings! That is what Rori is all about! These intuitions are given to us to protect us! If something doesn’t feel right, don’t rush in where angels fear to tread (like I did!). If there are lies and nothing is solid, something is wrong!

    If I continue to press in, I am likely to get hurt. If I back away and let it develop more slowly, what is the harm in that? None. It is safer.

    And I believe that people CAN change. There IS forgiveness…there IS restoration, but only if that person is really trying to change, not just lying more.

  48.  #48Ella on October 17, 2011 at 2:35 pm


    I spose if I just keep being a lil Siren, and playing in my Siren field, and CD-ing until I have a siutation that feels great commited to me… like and engagement ring on my finger and living together, then there is really nothing else to worry about…

    It all just fun.

    So if it feels ok bring it on.

    And as for sex… hmmm, get stuck on this one.

    Cus ideally I wouldn’t do that either till I was in that situation, however the thought of not having sex until I am in that situation feels hella bad!

    Darned sex.

  49.  #49Susan on October 17, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    RE: 44: VWNo Gravatar says:


    “Be aware. Pay attention to every little thing and don’t make him your world until after he makes you his.”

    I love your advice to Ella. It speaks to me today as well…”

    **The entire time my ex husband and I were living under the same roof (for financial reasons) I was telling the truth to the people I dated and he was lying to the woman he was dating. I believe people either lie or they don’t. They are either trustworthy, or they aren’t. Sometimes it is hard to ferret out the truth. If someone lies to me about anything at all, I tend to distrust them in general**

    “I am not having a good day…my heart feels shuttered to pieces…

    I recall you being able to read dreams…

    I had one…being in a train…don’t recall much details…just an unsettling feeling…and also loosing two luggages…and many women a part of the dream that i don’t know…:(”

    **Dreaming about being on a train and having an unsettling feeling speaks to not knowing where you are going and feeling afraid. I think your dream is simply mirroring your waking feelings. I’m sorry you are having a bad day. (((HUGGS))) **

  50.  #50Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    If I could start over at age16 and know all that I know and feel now, my life would be so much different. But you know what? I give compassion to my weak parts, and I like the strong woman I have become, and am becoming. And I thank God every day for Rori Raye! She is my light in a dark field of land mines.

  51.  #51Susan on October 17, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    RE: 47: Esteemed says:

    “Trust your gut feelings!”

    Spot ON!

  52.  #52Susan on October 17, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    In regards to post# 47…

    When my girl was little, I used to tell her to listen to her tummy. That is something seemed wrong but she couldn’t tell exactly why, that her tummy would feel funny. I told her that her tummy would always be right about these things.

  53.  #53alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    46 esteemed.

    yes what is good for you is good for you. and what is good for me is good for me. it is good we are all here and people can get all perspectives and manner of coming at it.

    your way is fine. if you interpretted me as criticizing it, that was not my intention.

    nor do i wish for my way to be criticized.

    i like who i am. i try to make conscious choices when trying to help others.

    even people in abusive situations.

    never once have i told you to leave ryan. it is just not my style nor do i find it helpful.

    women come on here and give specific details of abuse.

    on some level THEY KNOW.

    my goal would be to try to get them to WAKE UP to what they are feelings

    so if a part of their body is “sizzling” they will FEEL IT and WANT to run and put it out and soothe ones self and care for oneself.

    i feel defensiveness aimed directly at me. i never asked you to apologize for your post. in fact i felt quite appreciative of it.

    i am feeling a little wtf now after writing this.

    why was i specifically aimed at? maybe because i addressed you in the beginning of #35?

    but that was specifically my point. your reaction was based on info lilly gave us. esteemed , we had similar reactions to this situation… yours was just more honest and transparent and personal.

    and even still, i choose to respond in the way i do.

    and i would like my way to be as respected as any other.

    it is good people are different. if everyone were like you, esteemed, in this situation, the world would be in a panic and fleeing.

    if everyone were like me, people would be sizzling.

    it is good for all. we are all in this together and we can sort things out together.

    thank you.

  54.  #54alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    i want to go on a HAUNTED HAYRIDE WITH A HHG.

    it is costly. and where is my hhg?

    well, thank you, universe, for sorting out the details after me telling you my desired outcome.

    this will be fun to see how it unfolds.


  55.  #55Lilly on October 17, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Esteemed re:#47

    I also believe people can change. I have changed many things in my life. I think my guy may be low self esteem or else possibly hate women like you said earlier. I do not know. I know his Mom criticized him a lot as a kid and depending on how bad it was can leave its own kind of mark in how he would deal with women later in life. But so what? I don’t want to be in the line of fire for his “issues”.

    I really feel better hearing your perspective and never apologize for any advise you give. I asked for it. I know that I have to be the one to figure this out myself. But the other women here are a big help to me. And I have not known or practiced RR for years. I only discovered her and have been reading off and on for maybe two years. And these kinds of changes take lots of practice to pull off.

    Yes I did give him the no girlfriend speech. I told him I was looking for a life partner and to be married and I did not want to be someones girlfriend. He knows this. He said he would marry me to keep a good one from getting away.

  56.  #56alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    oh i just saw the pictures from the website. BAH!!!! why doesnt reality come up to meet my imagination. it looks bah.lame.

    one ticket for the expensive bah lame hayride, please.


    boo. i feel disappointment.

  57.  #57VW on October 17, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    I like to believe this was not just a dream…

    I met someone I deeply connected at sooo many levels…fun, outgoing, loving, appreciative, generous, taking charge, affectionate, getting along with my son…loves similar things I do…arghh…:(

    One moment everything felt just perfect and wonderful…and the other…everything felt apart…now, u left with disbelief, shuttered heart, unsettled feeling…unsure…disappointment…

    I feel proud of having dealt with sooo many things in my life with dignity…I never asked nobody for anything…i didn’t complain either…i gave and was there for many people…

    And yet, this year, I had to face a harsh reality…that bankruptc*y is the only way out…and get myself back on track…

    The past year, I learned to appreciate others helping me…to feel okay to reach out and express who I am…no more pretending…sigh 🙁

    Sharing this piece of info to my recent date…changed everything…
    he asked me “do u think is fair to be dating and wanting a relationship when u have these issues to deal with …cause when i have stuff like this, i don’t date…”

    My heart stopped…:( I was not asking for money, i was not crying…just sharing my situation…

    During our time together he repeatedly made comments about my extra room…how he likes my home…decor, it feels good to be in my space…

    So, seeing him making mentions like this, enticed me to say that I might loose this home…but that I have surrendered and I am ready to start all over…

    The convs didn’t feel good…I knew many were his “stuff”…and yet, me on the other side, was cringing with pain…and disappointment…

    I practiced tools…being present and get away from what he is thinking…to what i was feeling…

    I went in my son’s room and kneel to the floor and cried…

    I wondered…why is he still here? I went about my stuff…i didn’t feel angry just extreme sadness…

    He came outside and hugged me…i cried…

    I finished the meal…went to the living room and lied down….

    He came and sat next to me…and cuddled me…saying nothing else…

    He was supposed to leave at 7…but 7 became 9, 10, 11…he didn’t leave…stayed the nite…

    Part of me felt happy he did…the other…i wanted to be alone last nite…:( I felt afraid to tell him to leave…

    Now, I don’t know…there is a lot of weirdness between us…

    I want these awful feelings to end…sigh…:(

    I want these fears to disappear…I want to believe I will have a wonderful man to support me during these times…I am not asking for financial help…just love me…and be there for me…the rest I take care of…like I always did…:(

    I feel sooo tearful and defeated right now…I feel like just revealing having a disease…and everyone stays away from me because of it…:(

    wow…how awful…sigh…

  58.  #58alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    in fact sometimes telling a woman she needs to leave an abusive situation will bond a woman closer to the abuser. because she is not READY to leave. and she feels further isolated and alienated by people telling her to leave when what she is trying to do is fix the situation and stay.

    however, an abusee who is accostumed to being a victim really —the best thing that person could do is focus on themselves but most often they are focussed on the abuser and how to get the other person to change.

  59.  #59Lilly on October 17, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Alias girl-
    You are right about that. Abused people keep getting themselves in situations that are somehow familiar and keep wanting the other person to fix it to somehow feel better. I have heard about this type of drama from lots of people and probably did that myself in the past.

    And yeah of course I want his behavior to be different.
    Yet what you say is true. I can only change what I do and yet I don’t know what that should be right now.
    Focus on my life-ok-what does that mean? I am in this house and how can I focus on anything without this resolved? It feels like I am out on a cliff hanging, not knowing what he is going to do which in turn affects what I do and I feel crazy. Maybe I should not care what he does any more.

  60.  #60alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    aw dang. i still want to go on the hayride.

    it’s like my parent is saying “waste of money”

    and my kid is saying “I DONT CARE”

    i want a haunted hayride.

  61.  #61Daria on October 17, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    thank u Daria for doing my workout

  62.  #62Daria on October 17, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Lilly – not caring what he does is pretty much it

    also you could go out of the house a lot, a lot lot. get involved in some new classes, new activities

    go out. to social places. even by yourself.

    start flirting with men.

    start looking for places to move out to if that’s something you’re thinking about

    when Rori’s husband didn’t propose when she was expecting, she started looking at him as a roomate and went out of town on her own, to a hotel for the weekend

    she felt awful during, but it made her stronger, and it shifted her vibe

  63.  #63alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    lily my exact words were “focus on themselves”

    and in rori’s tools and in my best interpretation and experience with roris tools that would mean focus on YOUR FEELINGS.

    and if someone can practice focusing on their feelings moment by moment. they will be guided, moment by moment on “what to DO”.

    also i feel curious why one would continue to stay living there?

    if you have a home to go back to. you’ve only been there two months.

    just curious.

    other than your pride, which i understand but other than that… why?

  64.  #64sammie sighs on October 17, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Well Sirens I am coming on leaps and bounds not just in my personal life my boss is quite abusive and usually when he starts I get mad it escalates he was really shouting and aggressive today trying to pick a fight I took a deep breath and said I feel attacked when you shout at me like that it doesn’t feel nice please don’t do that and he stopped I was so proud of myself I feel strong and happy and all I am doing is just being in the moment opening my heart and letting the good in with the bad and letting the bad calmly go. I have learned that when u open your heart good comes in with bad and you identify it so much faster when your just being its amazing you don’t need to go into your head you can see so clearly and then you release the bad calmly and effortlessly .

  65.  #65alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    plus lilly

    one needn’t tell every busy body in town “oh what a horrible mistake! he turned out to be a total toad!”

    and i am not saying your guy is or isnt (a toad).

    but you could spin the facts a little. say “Oh, i started feeling like we moved too fast with moving in together. moving in together is a lot with people our age, we get set in our ways and it can be a bigger adjustment that i had anticpated. we are going to keep dating and we are still intending marriage… i just wanted to be back in my own home for more time”

    or something.

    whatever. its nobodys business but yours and whoever you choose to tell.

    and then if it works out great. and if it doesnt people are so consumed with their own lives they are not going to be up to date on the progress or what not.

    if your pride is what you are worried about…

  66.  #66Daria on October 17, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    i have heard Rori talk about when stuff is bad we feel like it’s hard to let go, and not even really of THE MAN, but of the DREAM of the relationship we were thinking of with that man

    i don’t remember what else she said about it

    but for me i get that i don’t have to let go of the dream, just cuz it didn’t happen here, the relationship will still happen for me at the end of the bridge

  67.  #67Daria on October 17, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    thank you for sharing sammy

    i intend to open my heart

  68.  #68Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Hey, Ladies! Now I need to catch up on new posts. I want to respond to some of the others…But first:

    LILI41, from the last thread – I loved your spunky “FMs out the window” response! Heck. I’ll be the first to admit it, FMs don’t always work for me. I try. But sometimes it is just not the right moment to tell him your “feelings.” Besides, you if you weren’t “telling” him your feelings, you were at the very least “showing” them. And I had a writing teacher once who drilled into our heads that it is always better to “show” rather than “tell.” So right on, sister.

    Plus, it sounds like you were being authentic to yourself in the moment. And that’s way better than putting on a “feeling” message because someone said you should. So, you have my support. Even if everyone here says you should have meekly spit out an FM or two, the way i see it, you showed him the Real You, and that’s WAY more sexy. I only hope I can be as spunky when the moment arises! 🙂

    And btw, this new Rori post is awesome!!

  69.  #69Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Wow so much good stuff sirens….
    Lilly…I agree about trusting your gut.

    My general feeling for MYSELF, learning from experience is that whenever there is ever any woman hanging in the wings with unfinished business, it’s never a good thing for ME.

    I’ve felt that in the past I got bumped down in priority because they are still sorting things out with the ex and finances etc….blah blah… and when there is more than one other woman? omg I want to run away and never look back sometimes….blech

    I am saying this becuz Recycled is going thru a long divorce AND he lives with a woman who is someone who he used to be involved with but no longer (supposedly) and I just started to feel so turned off by all this because **I** want to be a priority not the other women that still have financial obligations with him.

    The reason he is living with this woman is because we did not talk for a long while by MY choice- over six months, and he dated other people (of course which is to be expected)…and now this chick is his “roommate” but he was not upfront with me when we reconnected.

    His story keeps changing and does not add up for me and I hate it and I’m pissed.

    On the flip side, he did ask me to move in together at one point a long time ago while we were “not talking” and I told him no because his divorce was still pending and I felt that I wanted more committment.
    So maybe I missed my “turn” …or maybe I was spared….

  70.  #70Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Alias Girl LOL
    hayride sounds cool

  71.  #71Daria on October 17, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    i feel frustrated and sad and well pist off

    and misunderstood


    this reminds me of a different forum i felt this way on

    when i see feeling messages described as meek or implied wimpy i feel defensive and not ‘got’

    damn it ! i feel pist!

    i dont want to feel this way

  72.  #72Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    @Susan (dream whisperer) 🙂
    I had a dream that I learned that one of my college roommates (whom I have not spoken to in many years) died and I was crying and felt really sad about it…and it was odd because it was not a surprise, like I was expecting to get the news.

    A mutual (crappy) friend, whom I also havent talked to in ages, gave me a weird look and expressed dismay/surprise that I even cared and asked why I was upset…like it was stupid.

    I was in shock and feeling so weird about all of it.

    BTW as far as I know all are still alive, but I really don’t know for sure. 🙁

    What do you think this dream means?

  73.  #73Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    btw just to clarify, this was part of the actual dream:

    “A mutual (crappy) friend, whom I also havent talked to in ages, gave me a weird look and expressed dismay/surprise that I even cared and asked why I was upset…like it was stupid.”

  74.  #74Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Gawsh I am feeling weird that a man is 70 years old and still a player getting all these women to fall for his lies…etc. I feel judgmental and a lil self conscious for saying that, but really, get a grip dude and grow up. If it is true about him being a player. I think I’m just tired of men being players. I am NOT OK with other women being close to MY man at all. I am not going to put up with it, and I HAVE had relationships where I was put first by the man and he didnt cheat.

  75.  #75Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    64 @ sammie sighs
    Good for you speaking your voice. I did the same thing with my Father today.

  76.  #76Daria on October 17, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    i forgot to open my heart

    thanks for noticing Daria

    i feel sad, with a heavy blanket over my shoulders and the sidesof my mouth turning down

    i feel hopeless

    i have thoughts like “ill never be understood”

    i have thoughts like “if i were better at speaking and inspiring i could share my thoughts in ways that inspired people”

    i wonder what this showed up o heal

    thank u for showing up to heal this

  77.  #77Ella on October 17, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Thank you Ella for working hard today, and teaching 2 Zumba classes, and taking me to see CD1.

    And cooking for me, and feeding me with healthy food, and showering me, and filing my nails and putting cream on my feet.

  78.  #78Daria on October 17, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    im feeling jealous of Susan for beign asked about dream interpretations

    it feels scary to share this

    it’s triggering all my judgements in my Dad voice about well stuff he wouldn’t agree with

    and it feels bad to be judged that way when it’s about my interests



    yay im feeling stuff!

  79.  #79Daria on October 17, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    thank you Daria for scrubbing my feet

    thank you for panicking when seeing the words “work hard”

    thank you for deciding to gently move away from “work hard” as a concept in my life

    thank you for feeling terror to share that

    thank you for feeling sadness

    “if i say that it will be a criticism and people will feel offended and move away from me”

    i feel stuck and helpless

    this thought sounds really true to me

    i would say its not true but i believe it is true

    but can i really know its true?


    ok thats kinda cool

  80.  #80Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    So…regarding feeling messages. Or something….

    I did some good work over the weekend on my residual feelings about Beach Man. I took the time to write out the story, and that gave me some perspective. Also, it gave me a chance to “process” it, both literally and figuratively. I felt so much better and clearer after it was done. It really was a very powerful “relationship” even though it was so short. Probably a good sign that it wasn’t the “right” relationship. But still. I think it’s okay to let it have an impression on me.

    Meanwhile, I was in full (sort of) lean-forward mode with TDH over the weekend. I guess I’m really just trying to feel out the situation a little bit. And what I’m “sensing” is…it feels like friendship. I’m not even sure that he is physically attracted to me anymore. It doesn’t feel “hot.” But, on the other hand…I keep thinking about things I read about unexpected relationships. Sometimes the relationships that are the right ones, don’t always feel hot and exciting and filled with “chemistry” at first.

    I guess I just don’t want to fall into the “friend” trap. Especially if it’s FWB. he mentioned at some point that that was a possibility. now I’m wondering if I’ve given him the signal that that’s okay, and that somehow that’s what we have.

    Because I’ve slept with him, and that was nice, but I don’t really want to keep sleeping with him, if that’s all he wants. Only I haven’t really had the chance to say that to him. Or rather, when I did have the chance, I didn’t. I had sex with him instead. lol

    I’m such a hussy 😉

    And I love that about me, because, let’s face it, I do like sex, and that’s okay. 🙂 yay for me. But at the same time, giving sex to a man is really giving a lot. I don’t want to give those kind of “benefits” if I’m not getting the “benefits” I want in return. That is, I want the nice dinners, him coming to pick me up, making plans with me. Heck, maybe he’ll even bring me flowers 😉 I want those “benefits.” And if those are not forthcoming, then I want to say, sorry, Mr. Tall, Dark and Handsome. I’ll be friends with you, or we can have benefits. But you can’t have it both ways.

    See, now that all sounds really good to me in my head. Problem is, he hasn’t been really asking for much of anything lately. He’ll send me a cute text every now and then to say hi (like once or twice a week, maybe). but that’s it. no plans. No nothing. Nada. I even went out on a limb and pointed out something fun that was going on over the weekend that we both like to do, and he was sort of blasé about it. he said, “maybe I’ll see you there.” As if!

    Yeah, I know, I know. I was trying to “get” him to be excited about it and ask me to go. But he wasn’t biting. He said he had to work. And that’s been what he said the last time we went out, too. He came to see me anyway, but it wasn’t great. That’s when I started to feel like “friends.”

    And yes, I know, I know. I’m starting to feel like “friends,” because I’m the one leaning forward and doing all the work. All he has to do is sit back, send me a text every now and then, and consider the whole thing a done deal. Well, it’s not!

    What he doesn’t know – because I haven’t told him – is that I’m still CDing and open to lots of possibilities. I’m even considering dating women. Yipes! I’ve never done that before. I just think it would be interesting to explore that side of myself 🙂 (and I’m kind of scared to, too, which means, I should probably do it!)

    And all this morning, I was composing in my head the speech I wanted to give him. Not the “no girlfriend” speech, but the “No FWB” speech. It would be short and sweet and to the point.

    Problem is, I’d have to contact him in order to initiate that conversation, and really when I check in with myself about that, I don’t want to do it. It’s not that I want him to lean forward or do anything about it. I just really don’t want to “lean forward” at all. I’ve already leaned forward too much, and I know that’s not really getting his engines going, so to speak.

    So…I’m concentrating on me. I went to the gym today. I went out to lunch, and did some work from a café. And I’m going out to see a girl friend later tonight. (Also, I’m thinking of starting a style blog. stylistas unite! :))

    It just doesn’t feel right to call him. I “want” to – but I know that’s really just my brain/ego talking. I “want” to because I want some kind of result. I want to say, “I don’t want to have sex until we date more and I feel like we have a real relationship,” and that’s true. But really what I want is for me to say that and for him to perk up and say, “Gee, I should really get my act together and really date her if I want this to work.” But probably what’s really going to happen (if I go out of my way to say this) is that he’ll say, “Okay, whatever you want.” And then he’ll be out of the picture. because I’ll be making it “too easy.”

    Gah! That’s what I hate about all this. That I feel like I’m making it too easy for him, and that’s what I always do. I make it easy for them, and at the same time, I ramp up my self-doubt to the point where I sabotage the relationship. I thought about that while I was at the gym, and suddenly I felt better.

    I don’t want to do that this time.

    So, instead of feeling like I’m going to “lose” him over some “mistake,” I am choosing to feel connected to him, even though I can’t see it or feel it, or know what it really means or is right now. I can’t “make” it be what I want. And I can’t “make” him be or do or say anything different, or anything at all.

    Maybe FWB is all he has the capacity for right now. Or maybe that’s all he wants. So maybe I can honor what he wants, while focusing on what *I* want. Which is an amazing, relaxing and “real” relationship.

    Mmm, that sounds so good and yummy. A relationship where I don’t have to “do” all that much to make it happen. I just have to show up and be the goddessy, womany self that I really am.

    Trouble is, that’s the hard part. lol

    This is so long! I’m just “processing” this all out loud, in writing…for your reading enjoyment! ha!

    Let’s do what my mom always suggested: a Pros and Cons list! lol

    Pros 🙂

    – He shows up on time (BIG bonus. 11 points)
    – He’s a nice dresser (5 points)
    – He’s a nice PERSON (9 points)
    – I never feel tense around him (10 points)

    Cons 🙂

    – He’s considerate to the point that he sometimes doesn’t contact me when I would otherwise want him to (-3 points)
    – I haven’t seen him or gone out with him in 2 weeks (- 5 points)
    – He wants FWB (-9 points – with the caveat that this CAN be negotiated. I’m just looking for the right timing here…)

    Overall Score: + 35/-17

    And the Pros have it!

    That still doesn’t mean that he’s “my guy.” He has to tell me he’s my guy before he gets to be My Guy. And that’s the way it has to be. And meanwhile, someone else could easily be my guy – or person 😉

    I feel like this is REALLY good exercise for me. I KNOW the right way to be with him is NOT to lean forward or DO anything. He really *does* want to lead the conversation and anything that happens. I have to let him. I can’t do that if I’m trying to lean in and do it myself. Besides, I’m feeling out the situation, because, in truth, I’m still trying to make up my mind about how *I* feel about it/him. I’m still not 100% sure it’s the right thing for me. I still need to see more from him. I need more information before I can decide.

    Ah, it feels good to see it all out in writing. I feel so much better having written it here. I don’t blame you if you feel like you don’t want to read the whole thing. But it’s so helpful for me to write it here, because, as good as it feels to express myself, sometimes it actually feels better to express myself – to myself. Or to someone else. And wait for him to come to me and see what I’m doing before I tell him how I feel.

    So I can let him be the Man in the conversation instead of the girl.

    What do you ladies think??

  81.  #81Ella on October 17, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Re working hard

    I don’t necessarily believe it is true that I have to work hard.

    However I don’t know any other way of doing what I am doing and having my businesses work atm.

    And my post was about thanking myself for trying ti improve my life and my businesses in the only way I currently know how to do.

    I am also thankful these days of learning to slow down and work less hard.

    And when my boy has worked hard for me I also feel thankful.

  82.  #82Daria on October 17, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    i hate you Daria

    i love my hate feelings

    i feel scared!

    i love my fears

  83.  #83Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    82 Aww Daria… 🙁 🙁 sounds like harsh words to yourself..you made and impression on me in the past suggesting I not do that to myself, and I try to be nicer to me and less harsh as a result of your words… :)Hugs to you.

    And by the way, I welcome dream interpretation from any siren that feels inspired!

  84.  #84Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Ella thanks for your feedback on the other thread…you commented on my feeling uninspired to CD. I don’t think I ever replied. Anyway, I’m still feeling a bit uninspired to CD at all. I get bombarded with NVs but I’m working thru it and have been getting my nails done once a week…LOL cuz I’m doing a lot of stuff for myself lately and focusing on me. 🙂

  85.  #85Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    I am craving salmon and maybe sushi…yum

  86.  #86Sweetpea on October 17, 2011 at 5:12 pm


    My thought as I was reading your post is that you’re not sure if you’re overreacting – if these are old things coming up in you for healing, or if this is a red flag. I don’t know. What I do know is that if you’re feeling uncomfortable with it, then something needs to change. If you’re uncomfortable with him having these exes as friends, you don’t have to accept it. It doesn’t matter whether he thinks it’s unreasonable or not, this is about you.

    I would say, if it’s a dealbreaker for you to have him be friends with his exes, if you feel insecure and not trustful, and if he’s not willing to make some changes to help you be more comfortable, then that’s where the problem lies for you. Personally, I wouldn’t push myself to make a decision, I would push myself to do what’s comfortable for me.

    Is there any reason you have to make a decision right this moment? Can you not go stay at your house for now if you feel like it, just to give yourself some space to get some clarity on this? Can you put your foot down and say, “I don’t care if it’s unreasonable or not, I feel untrusting and unheard about this and I don’t want to feel that way?”

    I’m not in your situation so it doesn’t seem cloudy at all to me – yes, he’s made some big steps toward you. But for me, I would simply tell him – “I feel uncomfortable with this and I need some time to decide if it’s something I can deal with or if it’s a dealbreaker for me and until I get some clarity or until we come up with a satisfactory plan so that we BOTH feel comfortable, I’ll be staying at my house.” And I’d go to my house to do some soul-searching and decide if this is something I can deal with or not. His feelings aren’t important here, yours are the ones you’re going to have to be ok with for the rest of this relationship.

  87.  #87Daria on October 17, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    I also feel happy when my boy has done lots of great feeling stuff for me, and so appreciative when it’s stuff that felt overwhelming to think about doing

    and i just don’t want to THINK in terms of working hard anymore (for me)

    i want this concept to gently flow out of my consciousness and just keep the gem of it that is in all things when it clears up some

  88.  #88Sweetpea on October 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm


    And I would practice leaving my heart open to him and giving him the opportunity to surprise you. What came to my mind is that Rori consistently says, “you don’t have to have closure, stay on your horse.” And you don’t have to have closure. You don’t have to stay at the house with him if you don’t want and you don’t have to just call it quits and move back into yours.

    What I see, is that you do need some clarity and peace in your own mind. For me, it’s always easier to get that clarity when I’m not feeling concerned about whether or not I’m being “reasonable.” Being reasonable won’t cause you to feel less resentful down the road – following your heart will.

  89.  #89Daria on October 17, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    thanks Emerson

    i love my i hate myself feelings .

    i feel touched that you said that to me Emerson. i feel warm and loved

  90.  #90Daria on October 17, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    off to the airport

    feelin rushed an excited

  91.  #91Violet on October 17, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Kudos to Rori on such a timely blog!!

    Rori’s blog falls right in line with where I am now.

    It took me 55 yrs to get to the point where I accept who I am, where I’m at at any given time, to allow things to float through me, not to be affected by what other people think.

    I don’t think about being a Siren. I allow myself to be who I am because I happen to like myself this way!

    You all take it easy and stay cool!

    ~ Violet ~

  92.  #92Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    What I am concentrating on right now is just keeping things simple, easy, and being nice to myself.

    “Not doing anything” feels like that.

    However, I am just curious if anyone actually *does* think it would be a good idea if I contacted TDH to let him know where I stand? I don’t want to be guilty of “lies by omission” – letting him continue to (possibly) believe something about me that isn’t true. (can’t assume I really know what he thinks, tho.)

    My one idea here was to just send a little message like, “Hey, I just wanted to chat about something. When would be a good time for you?” Then see what he says.

    But I don’t want to push him, force the issue, or make a big deal out of something that doesn’t need to be.


    [mini-recap: TDH has stil been in the picture, but things have been feeling casual. I don’t want him to think that casual or “friends with benefits” is okay with me. But I’ve also been leaning forward a bit lately, and I feel like this may be where the “friends” vibe is coming from. So that’s why I’m hesitant to reach out. Even if it’s for the purpose of taking a metaphorical step backward. would welcome any help/thoughts/support from other sirens.]

  93.  #93Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    I want clarity about a past relationship…that it was the right thing to end it. I keep having flashbacks about him, he was crazy about me and super loyal, falls right into that book “the list” that he wanted marriage, etc…and wanted to be with me all the time! He was so nice but he was possessive and I felt pressured, a lot…and I was not ready for marriage I don’t think. Why not? Why wasn’t I? hmm. I also loved him as a friend, loved him dearly, but not so much in the attraction dept. It tried really hard to let that grow, but I think I was still hooked on my ex/bf at the time, and I just wasn’t feeling it.

    Sometimes I feel that HE was the one I should have married. I need to have a revelation for myself that it was absolutely not the right one for me and close the door forever….
    but I did learn how it felt to feel secure with someone, he always wanted holidays etc., with me and would do anything to help me. Always answered his phone. He is a rare guy. Maybe I should have tried harder. See there I go again. 🙄

  94.  #94Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    @ Lilly – Thank you for sharing your story.

    I stopped reading “Shut the f* up” and skipped to the end. I literally couldn’t stomach anymore. And I nearly stopped at “cuntish.” Are you kidding me?? Who says that to a woman they supposedly love?

    I hope you don’t think i am being harsh.

    I am at least glad to hear that you walked out at that point. What I’m wondering is why you are still moving your stuff IN to his house, instead of out of it.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I used to act in the Vagina Monologues every year at college, and I am a big fan of the “C-word” – as a description of female anatomy. But NOT when used for an actual female.

    That is no way acceptable AT ALL for a man who supposedly wants to be with you.

    I feel so much compassion for you, and please do not be hard on yourself because you said you think you already know what we are going to say. But to me that just means that you are connected to your feelings and you suspect already what they are telling you.

    What we have is the benefit of distance and non-involvement.

    I, too, get hung up on people who are totally not right for me. Maybe because this is because I am used to being abused (verbally, by my parents), and so there can even be a little bit of Stockholm syndrome going on I think (where a person becomes strongly bonded to their oppressor/abuser.)

    I’m not sure that this man is abusing you per se. But calling you names and saying “shut the f* up” – even jokingly – is not okay. Especially if it’s not really a joke. Even disregarding the fact that he has all these other women in his life (and may simply be a polyamorist who needs to live this way; or a hopeless player who enjoys having power over women), the way he treats you sounds just atrocious.

    It sounds like you feel bad with this man. Maybe worse than you are willing to admit, even to yourself. You have come to enjoy spending time with him and being with him, despite how he treats you (not like how you want). And he gets what he wants by telling you want you want to hear. And meanwhile I am wondering: do you really want to be with someone that you don’t feel like you can really trust?

    You can leave him without giving a speech. You can leave him without saying anything. You can start moving your things, and when he asks, just say that you are moving out. You don’t have to say why. If he starts bothering you, you can take out a restraining order (that’s what they are for).

    You might find that if you leave, he will “shape up” and become the type of partner you need. But if not, then you will at least not be with someone who is at the very least wasting your time, and at worst, about to hurt you.

    And pardon me, my dear, but *you* hold all the power here. As Evan Mark Katz says, your power as a woman is in Walking Away.

    What you have here is a brilliant opportunity to walk away, and start seeing more and better men. You can do it, if that feels interesting to you. And if it might increase your sense of self-worth and dignity.

    But we here will support you in whatever choice you make.

  95.  #95Kim on October 17, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Hi Ladies!!
    Well I feel a little better today. This morning I had to call him to see if he was coming to my store. He answered the phone (progress) then I had to call him again because we had something delivered to the store that I didn’t know about. He answered the phone again! He hasn’t answered one call since Wednesday for me! So I had to ask him if things were okay between us and he said yes. So I haven’t called him since. I am not going to call him tonight either. Tommorrow I have a meeting at one of the other locations near his home ( we are an hour apart from one another) I am not going to call him then either! That should make him wonder why I wouldn’t call being that close to his house. I feel like I am making progress too!! Thanks for all your help! I don’t think I am going to cry tonight either. Of course if he doesn’t call in a few days I will probably be back to sad again.

  96.  #96Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    I have a friend who was dating a guy who cheated on her from day 1. Especially after he asked her for exclusivity. But she didn’t find out about it until months later.

    She started getting suspicious of his stories and finally checked his phone one day while he was in the shower and found some texts.

    She didn’t talk to him about it. She simply started packing up her things.

    Later, he contacted her, as if all was normal, and she told him that she knew and how she felt.

    Turned out he had been cheating on her with many, many women.

    This friend of mine is pretty badass. But also just a down-to-earth and realistic woman who didn’t want to put up with any b.s. And even though this was a really terrible experience, she is totally not wrecked by it, because she knows it was his problem, and not because of who she is or anything she did. (he was also a psychotherapist. go figure)

    Just thought this story might help anyone who is in a situation where they don’t think they can trust their man, or feel good with him.

    And even I need a reminder sometimes: I do NOT need to put up with ridiculous BS just because a man says pretty things, or shows up with roses and chocolates. It’s his motivations and what’s in his heart and who he is to me that really counts….

  97.  #97Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Kim – I <3 your energy! You sound like you are in a really great place! 🙂

  98.  #98Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    And Lilly, p.s. I do not mean to sound like I absolutely know what you should do. I don’t.

    But it does sound like there is an issue of “trust” here, and often, when we find an issue like that with someone else, it turns out to be a mirror of what is going on within ourselves. Is there some way in which you don’t trust *yourself*?

    Can you begin to trust yourself?

    Can you trust your feelings?

    It sounds as if you are here because you have this question.

    And the answer is yes. You *can* trust your feelings.

    If you choose to.

    And so, since it wouldn’t be fair if I said that and then didn’t do it for myself, I am going to think also about how I don’t trust myself and to try and start trusting my feelings more. And it feels really good to say that. 🙂

    Wishing you strength, T.

  99.  #99LILI 41 on October 17, 2011 at 6:56 pm


    Thank you for you post Tiffany, it makes me feel good to be human. Not beating myself up over this. I can still be proud for standing up for myself and being honest.
    FMs did not work w this one. It only worked for him to reel me in. From my FMs, he knew how to get me where he wanted me, then he just felt free to take me for granted again. I used the FMs, then he gave bits and pieces of what I wanted. Well, no more bits and pieces!!!

    I am not giving up on getting a good grip on FMs though. I have been at the receiving end of FMs from a very close friend. She could be angry at me, would tell me how she felt…and I still felt loved. I want to make people feel that way w me, so I will keep trying.

    I wasn’t very nice to him, but I was honest and I honoured my feelings. Something that I wasn’t getting from him (he wasn’t honouring my feelings) – I gave to myself (I honoured my own feelings).

  100.  #100Tina on October 17, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    I just feel alone and wanted to stop in 🙂 BBL All of you are in my thoughts. oh I slept with my husband who is not my ex yet. I still feel angry but more annoyed that he thinks its some kind of sign for us. I said no, i just feel like having sex and didnt want a new partner, that he knows me and my needs “)anyway have a great day!!!!! I want to come back wehnn i can spend more time here. later gators 🙂

  101.  #101Tiffany on October 17, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    I am totally spamming the blog right now 🙂

    but I have such a good story!!

    Today, this morning, I literally prayed for new clients. Business has been slow, and even working for my dad has become frustrating.

    So, I put myself in a good mood, and I thought about getting new clients. And I imagined it “raining clients” (like raining men, except clients. ha!) And I just felt so happy and good about that.

    When I finished my workout, I had a message from a new prospective client!

    And I just got an email from a return client!

    Who is going to call me next???

    Yay, Universe! You totally rock! It is raining clients, and it is AWESOME.

    I feel so grateful for this abundance! 🙂

  102.  #102LILI 41 on October 17, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    If this can help anyone:

    I saw red flags of immaturity in my “so-called” relationship. Yet, he had such amazing qualities that made me melt, qualities I had never know in a man and that I had yearned for so much.

    His qualities kept me in, but the red flag got brighter and brighter until it completely overshadows the whole relationship. FMs only work for 1 week at a time w him.
    The red flag of immaturity shows up in that he wants the relationship on HIS OWN TERMS. He cannot do a real comitted relationship, he doesn’t have the maturity. That bell rang when 1 of his friends said “you need time to grieve after a breakup, time to think things over to learn from it before you go into a new relationship.” My bf answered to that “no, you need to keep busy to forget and bring your moral up.” At that moment, I secretly started wishing I was w his friend.
    So you see the difference where he tends to run away from issues, and his friend tends to face issues. His ex left him for his best friend, I wouldn’t feel good to do that…but I can see how these things happen.

    Anyway, it wasn’t a life or health threatening red flag, but a dang good learning experience for myself.

    I know my feelings, I express them (OK, need work on FMs) and I feel pretty good about honouring my feelings. I feel a lot stronger about my feelings, my don’t wants and walking away from bad behaviour that make me feel bad.

  103.  #103R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    OHHH geez its bad enough I text him because I wanted to share my news about passing my boards. He text back, “See I knew you could do it, I am proud of you. It’s not how many times you get knocked down it is how many times you get up” It was nice but I said Thank you and left it at that. So tonight I was soooo ugghhhhpphhh….leaned forward just wanted to speak to him and check on him and babygirl since we are going through some tough weather. Just told him to be safe. He didnt answer I am mad at myself now, He never calls or texts to check on me! WTF is wrong with me? I just cannot let this guy go. I want to so bad and I have tried and I don’t want him to fix me or I fix him. I just want to know him more and let us love one another if that was the case. The thing is if a good man came and swept me off my feet he would lose me. So I guess he really does not care to lose me. So I need to stop this nonsense. It is not healthy and bad for my self confidence…..help….tears…

  104.  #104Starla on October 17, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    CD1 is a good man and i think i will be totally and utterly in love with him if he keeps this up.


  105.  #105R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    On a brighter side, I have received ok’s from my personal references that should be done this week and I will be off to work as a R.N. very soon…yay!

  106.  #106R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    This is why I find myself angry and then I just get defensive with guys in general. Like its all just a big joke, there are no men out there that actually want what I want. I mean this is a negative post and I apologize I am just so sick of it. I am just mad but I cannot be angry at anyone but me at this moment. Nothing is stopping me but me, men only treat a woman badly if she allows it…ugghh

  107.  #107R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I am tired of feeling lonely…..bahhh

  108.  #108Starla on October 17, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    hugs RN
    You have so much to look forward to now. Big things happening for the beautiful you.

    Don’t you worry about that guy, except in what his presence in your life has for you as a MESSAGE.

    more hugs!

  109.  #109R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Thanks Starla :(…..XOXO

  110.  #110R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 8:02 pm


    This explains it for me!!

  111.  #111Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    ughhhh so compelled to lean forward

    he left an hour ago or so and i want to text himmmmmmmmmmmm

    even though i can rationalize this, i’m still going to lean back, yes!

  112.  #112Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    110 rn
    that video is intense. i liked it.

    i feel weird…i can’t relate to it even though i’ve been torn up from love SO many times. i must be a weirdo.

    i sat there today in CD1’s arms and imagined what it would be like if he stopped coming around,if he got with some other woman, if he proposed but didn’t make it to the altar, etc. and i felt like i would be okay. like, really really would be okay.

  113.  #113R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    @111 Good for you. You know I hate all this lean back…lean forward.. this to a point cause this lean back lean forward is like a game or a science..makes me irritated.

  114.  #114Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    well i think the idea is to just ALWAYS lean back. no games. no leaning forward. let him come to you and when he does, be an invitation.

  115.  #115R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    This nurse is heading to the bath to take care of herself 🙂

  116.  #116Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    114 yes but I think it’s ok to lean forward once in a while….??

  117.  #117Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    yay i love that the nurse is going to take care of herself

    extra important because soon all you’ll do all day long is take care of others:)

  118.  #118Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    116, yes it is okay to lean forward once in a while if you’re in ‘rockstar’ mode, right?

  119.  #119Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    he said he had to go because he needed to prepare for work the next day and get to bed early (he’s a teacher)

    i want to text him that it feels so wrong for the first few hours after we part ways, so make it count and have a productive night since i have to suffer

    i’m not sending this…maybe it would be something nice to send down the road when we have a serious relationship.

    and i mean, we spend most all of our time complimenting each other and showing each other love. it’s not like i’d be telling him something new.

    so i lean back

    eeeeeee and it is freaking hard.

    i am so glad i can come here and let off steam!

  120.  #120Butterfly Wings on October 17, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    43: Ella – I’ve not caught up yet, but thought my situation might help you here…

    When my ex husband and I split up we lived together (separate rooms) for over a year after that, mainly because we had no other options at the time and we were trying to sell our house.

    Also, we had a “rule” (which he eventually broke) that while we were both living there, we would NOT bring other people over, as respect for the ex partner. So even if your guy doesn’t invite you over, don’t necessarily see it as a red flag.

    So do you think that maybe you’re “punishing” (probably not the right word) this guy because of the past guys who’ve done the wrong thing by you?

    So far, every thing he has said has checked out – he’s given you absolutely no reason to doubt him, right? So could it just be the guys from the past still haunting you that you need to heal?

    TH and I started seeing each other while I was living with my ex and we’re still together now (ok it’s been an ‘interesting’ ride, but we are still together!). He didn’t tell me he wouldn’t see me till we’d gone our separate ways. He stuck by me despite that – and I’m grateful for that.

    And my ex and his gf ended up moving in together – and he was dating her while living with me. What if she’d had a boundary that it was off till he moved out? She would have lost him for sure, because he would have moved on to somebody who trusted him.

    He and I had ZERO inclination to get back together and in fact the thought repulses me! Yuk! He is a nice guy though, but I soooo could not go back there!!! 😀

    So what I’m trying to say here is that even though there IS a chance he could be lying about his situation with his ex, there’s also a chance that it’s much like my situation (or Susan’s?), and the living arrangement is more for convenience than anything else, and there’s nothing else involved and is 100% totally innocent.

    Men don’t like to feel like they’re not trusted, although many don’t deserve to be! But until this guy gives you a reason to not trust him, is there any harm in just “being” and letting his actions prove to you how trustworthy he can be? Just my thoughts and I hope it helps and I really really hope I’ve not come across harshly, because that’s not my intention.

  121.  #121Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    we have some serious issues with parting ways. i can’t count the number of ways he’s come through to give me a quick ride somewhere, or say hello since it’s been too long, and he ends up staying for hours and hours. Till 5 in the morning sometimes. Once we’re around each other, we need a crowbar to get us to part ways.

    it’s pretty ridiculous. i bet some of you just vomited in your mouths a little bit. sorry about that.

    This trend of ours was all fine and dandy when we were seeing each other only 1-3 times a week, but now we’re seeing each other all the time, and it’s not getting any easier for us to only spend a few minutes together.

    eep=/ and then he never sleeps more than a few hours and i don’t take time to be in charge of my own happiness, which is really important that i do in order to be happy and healthy. What to do, what to do…

  122.  #122Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    i accept this as reliable fact at this point…3 months of never ending a single date or brief encounter on the scheduled agreed upon. so if i have anything at all to do, i should make sure i do that before i see him or else it’ll never get done, including all the things i do to take care of myself and keep me happy.

    it’s just that in the moment, i want to shove all that important stuff aside just to see him.

    at least when we’re apart, we accomplish things in our lives, lol. we did an experiment with me studying and him working in the same room, and it was better than nothing but i accomplished far less than he did as I am super talkative.

  123.  #123English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    #43 Ella

    I think Susan gave you GREAT advise, don’t make him your world until he has made you his……wow I LOVE that Susan!! Thank you for your wisdom, it speaks to me too. 🙂

  124.  #124Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    And we’ve both been putting off our laundry!!!



    we have issues. i’m not seeing him until my laundry’s done lol.

    i feel embarrassed admitting all this here…like i must look like a crazy person

  125.  #125alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    YAE for me!!!!

    i just ended a convo in a normal amount of time. well it went even longer than i wanted it to.

    but this is my rori tool i am currently practising.
    no long conversations.

    ive had long convos with men. and then more long convos with same men. and then …. no date.

    well no more.

    and even this one, i ended it and the guy didnt hit me up for a date. whatevs. plus he is long distance so i dont see much coming out of it. but YAE for me for practicing because this has been challenging for me in the past and i was unable to do it.

    and i feel GREAT for having done it.

    and what i did actually. i had four guys numbers that i hadnt called back. so i called one and he said “let me call you right back” and

    i didnt sit around waiting for his call (which never came btw)

    instead i just clicked good bye with him and dialed the next number. got a voicemail. left a message. and dialed the next number. got off when convo felt like it could go on for HOURS ugh. bleh.

    i just ended and said i feel open to meeting or speaking again but i didnt want to have a long convo.

    and actually the reason i dialed any of these numbers, which i did nOT feel like doing….is because i felt like dialing my bfex.

    and i thought uh. no. better to call a new one than an old one.

    so now i am going to dial #4 which i am not excited about at all.

    i am then going to check my emails on pof. and hopefully by then

    the urge to call the ex will have passssssssssssed.

    because i know

    i know

    i just KNOW i will not feel good to make that call to the ex.

    which honestly is part of it , i think. i had such a great day and went on this perfect hike and feel so good that i need to take some self sabotaging action to bring my vibe down.


    i am learning. baby steps. i love me. i love my urge to self sabotage my good feelings.

  126.  #126Esteemed on October 17, 2011 at 8:51 pm


    Re: 37 – Rori says, ” if it doesn’t feel good, stop doing it.” The pain and confusion are warning signals. When I was with R, I ignored the pain and confusion. What has helped me a lot, is practice being in the moment. I focus on 1 object in the room, and I try to use as many of my senses as possible get a feel for the object. I get alone and then I get real still when I do this. As I feel My senses heightening, then I gently shift my focus to my internal feelings.

    This Is stuff I have learned from Rori. Itunes into each body part and get a feel for what I’m feeling. Little by little, I am able to translate that into moment by moment. I feel so empowered as a woman what I am able to do this in the midst of a controversial conversation with a man.

  127.  #127English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    #54 Alias Girl

    I have no idea what a Haunted Hayride is?? Something to do with Halloween? Sounds like fun! Especially with a HHG. 😉

  128.  #128Starla on October 17, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    alias girl that is so awesome. i was just going on and on about how i need some of THAT…ability to end conversations/meetings

    rub off on me please k thanks

  129.  #129English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    64 sammi sighs

    YAY for you standing up to your boss!! Doesn’t it feel good. 🙂

    These feeling messages are so powerful, I have been using them at work too. One time I was in a meeting and 3 people started on me (I was new) about doing something I don’t want to do (drive the work car because it is manual and I only drive auto lol) and it had not been mentioned at the interview……anyway I just said very calmly, “Can you all please stop as I am feeling very pressured and cornered here.”

    Wow that was HUGE for me as I am the eternal nice girl who just goes along with it……

  130.  #130alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    oooh this is why was going to take a break from dating. i feel so angry at men. i seriously hate them. i see them all as weak and pussified and lame and ugh.


    why did i do this to myself?


    why did i look for a reason to bring myself down? i was feeling SO GOOD. and all i could think of were things that typically bring me down?

    i feel like crying.

    i hate men, i hate them. i dont even want one anymore.

  131.  #131R.N.AmazingMe on October 17, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    @130 (((HUGZ)))) AG….I am sorry that your feeling that way right now. Vent away you are respected and cared for here!!…XOXO

  132.  #132alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    128 starla yah yah yah and i want some of whatever you’ve got going on to rub off on me.

    all i have been practicing lately is being pissy with men. which is not without its merits.

    but i would much rather have the starla siren vibe going on than the pissy, brass balls, loner-forever vibe. !!!

    boo. i love myself. i love my hating, pissy ways.

    i love my discouragement

    i am TIRED of propping weak men up and pretending they are not weak.

  133.  #133alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    131 R.N Amazing Me. thank you. i feel sad pouty face and crying leaky eyes.

    i feel comforted by your post. thank you.

  134.  #134alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    this is legit what i just wrote to some pen pal dude on pof


    so then he writes me back… blah blah here’s my number.

    i wrote:

    “im not going to use your number. im not going to write it down. im not programming it in my phone. if you are serious about meeting women do your job and call them.

    ugh i feel annoyed and turned off.”


    this guy is just going to sit online for 2 more years and email women endlessly and stay in fantasy land and hold onto his shwanz.

    get out of my hair.


    find ur balls and CALL!

    i feel so angry

    it is me


    all i have ever wanted in this stupid stupid life is a boyfriend. not even a husband or a family or any of that just a stupid boyfriend.

    and i’ve had like two. and they werent what i want for boyfriends

    there is something wrogn with me

    i love my broken siren self. i love my DONT COMMIT TO ME VIBE that i have stamped on the very essence of my being.

    wah. tears


  135.  #135alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    the guy emailed back bleh blahbluhbluhbluh

    and i emailed him back

    “no seriously. what i said in the last email still stands.

    take your shwanz out of your hand and start dialing chick’s numbers when you are lucky enough to get them


    i feel so turned off.

    or just stay online and pen pal. but not with me. this is my last email. no more. best of luck.”

    i am so angry. i am psychologically castrating men.


    i need to stop dating or something.

    or join a nunnery.

    or something.

    or maybe just allow myself to go through this and feel this and yes ok whatever psycholigicallt castrate men,

    i dont know. i feel so hopeless and angry.

    if i ignore this area of my life, nothing happens and then ten more years can pass with no boyfriend.

    if i focus on this area of my life, i have ….


    i feel hopeless.

  136.  #136English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    #124 Starla

    Awww so sweet, it sounds like you two are falling in love, nothing better than that feeling. 🙂

  137.  #137Starla on October 17, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    I finished a quick contract job i picked up doing a campaign finance report for some DC bigwigs, and they just emailed me and cc’d everyone at the campaign on it that he can’t thank me enough and how good it is to hand something over to someone competent and know it will be done right, and they’re so happy that i had time to work on this project.

    Wow I feel like 10 feet tall! I always feel at least a bit insecure about how people perceive my work, so this helps me a great deal in building general confidence

  138.  #138English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    #135 Alias Girl

    Have you thought of joining a “serious” dating site like e-Harmony? I believe that is where Aurora Girl met her man……

    I don’t know but maybe the men on there have more intent to actually MEET somebody instead of all this penpal rubbish??

    Just a thought………

  139.  #139Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    AG lol
    ((Hugs)) from Emerson

  140.  #140Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Online dating scares me

  141.  #141English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Just got this from one of my penpals, the radio guy who just keeps on writing…….seems like men have bad experiences too……….

    Just checking my one message on here from you in a cafe’bar in xxxx
    with dodgy wifi on my blackberry so you might not receive this….I
    hope you are enjoying pof.I had a date last week off here She
    insisted on eating in a certain expensive fish restaurant on
    xxxxx, we ate drank copious bottes of wine had a fab time
    laughed etc then she did one leaving me with a massive bill and had
    my ipod too,,, she was older than me yet I feel such a
    fool…anyway I am calling it a day on here So cya tx

  142.  #142English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Re the above message, when I was looking for it to show you ladies which I received last week, and him saying he was leaving POF, well he was last on 5 hours ago lol!!

  143.  #143Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    When I joined eharmony on a trial basis, they matched me with some dorky dorkuses. I’m sorry but they did. EEk. Maybe I didn’t stay on long enough, or maybe there are just a lot of nerdy dudes out there with $$ to join eharmony and maybe I’m just really judgmental and shallow, but I don’t think so. 🙂 Emerson is nice.

  144.  #144Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Oh lordy I just felt soo turned off by all the guys they matched me with. But I do know ppl who have found their mate on there.

  145.  #145Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    butterfly wings thank you for sharing your story about the divorce and how you lived in separate rooms.

    That is similar to my RecycledCD’s story right now and I was feeling/am feeling/may always feel angry about it.

    But perhaps he is indeed telling the truth.

    Regardless, it’s how I feel about it. I need to be number one and I hate the fact that he lives with a female. I can be jealous sometimes. I guess she wasn’t paying the rent or something, and he was upset and telling me about it how he wanted her to move out. But she is still there.
    I was like whaaat?? You are paying for her roof over her head and I have what???? crumbs???? So pissed.

  146.  #146English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    #143 Emerson


  147.  #147alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 10:03 pm


    just STOP, alias girl.

    focus on SOMETHING ELSE

    for right now

    in this moment

    FOCUS on something else.

    go stalk your couch online or something

    go for a skate

    go for a walk
    redo your barfy nails

    learn a song

    do some push ups

    watch something fun online

    hug a teddy bear

    light a candle

    play christmas music

    stretch my body

    do the dishes

    create a new outfit out of the clothes you already own

  148.  #148alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    why arent my posts showing up

    my vibe right now is so whack lol

  149.  #149Lilly on October 17, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Hi Ella-re:36

    I really appreciate what you have to say. I have been thinking about all of this all day and have been asking myself some of these same questions you brought up.

    Yeah-would I still want to marry this man and he still has a woman living on his property, after he lied to me about what he told her? I don’t think I could. That is a deal breaker. The lying and trying to mange her and me feels really slimy and icky. I no longer trust him, he has broken my trust now.

    The on ly thing he could do now would be to take me there, introduce me to her as his fiance, and basically tell the truth and stop being chickensheet about it.
    But he won’t do that that I can see. He will be gone for the next week or more, so that gives me lots of time away from him to think this through.

    Thank you for your thoughts. It is not that he has this woman there so much as that he felt it necessary to lie to us both. That bothers me a lot. If they truly are “just friends” then why not tell her about me? See? i hate being someone’s “secret”. It’s cagy and leaves room for all sorts of manipulation and dodgy stuff and I don’t think I could ever feel at ease with a man who does that. Someone earlier said it would feel like you could never get a grip on who he is and that’s what it feels like. I now do not trust him. I already know what I will probably have to do and as much as it hurts and is an even bigger disruption I don’t see any other option but leaving. How can I stay and get him to stop all of this. I can’t. Will leaving the house a lot and going out and doing what Daria said to do really make a difference to a man who has done this kind of thing? I don’t see how it would. But I feel right now like I don’t know anything. I don’t trust my own judgement, after all I ended up in this mess due to my own lack of judgement.

  150.  #150alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    well i am going to save my post and sneak it in later.

    because i want to

    and because i can


    either that or it will end up showing up a million times because i kept trying to post it

  151.  #151Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    141 Hi EW!
    gawsh it’s so funny and annoying when guys say oh are you enjoying POF? How’s it going on POF?
    Whaa?? Are you my relationship coach? Oh no! You’re not! That would be Rori! Ahaha!!
    Oh it just makes me laugh now. Men are so amusing.
    Too bad about his ipod though. 🙄

    135 AG lol
    Please don’t lose hope…tomorrow is a new day. AG lol is too hot to not be cherished and loved by a HHG that is just for her!!

  152.  #152English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    #48 Ella

    I keep thinking about this post of yours Ella. And I have read all of your little adventures on this blog and was thinking that with this new CD who you seem to really like and who makes you feel good, then why don’t you think about doing things differently with this one, as in no sex……….at least not for some time. Take it real slow and like my sister said when she was going out with the man who is now her husband “Slowly, slowly catchee monkey” 😀

    I keep thinking of this other saying to keep myself in check:

    “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”

  153.  #153Butterfly Wings on October 17, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    137: Starla – that is fabulous news! You go girl and yep if that doesn’t give you a confidence boost, then what will?? 🙂

  154.  #154Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    I feel left out and out of place when Im somewhere with all couples. It feels bad and weird. I need to get over this. Like NOW. I need to not care what people think!!!!

  155.  #155alias girl lol on October 17, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    150 emerson. thank you.

    yes tomorrow will feel different. thank you.


  156.  #156Butterfly Wings on October 17, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    145: Emerson – I am happy to say that my ex and I were going 50/50 on all of the mortgage payments etc. We also bought our own food and stored them in separate parts of the fridge/cupboards, so it worked out well. Sometimes he’d ask to use something of mine and I’d do the same.

    Considering our marriage was over, we did get on really well most of the time although we were just friends and definitely nothing more.

    As for RecycledCD paying for her share, maybe it’s just because he can’t bear to be seen as an ogre for kicking her out. On the other hand, if he really wants her out then he’s gonna have to grow some balls!

    You’re in a tough situation there, and I suppose it’s up to you to decide if it’s a dealbreaker or not. Hard though, right? xxx

  157.  #157English Woman on October 17, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    #150 Emerson

    You know my whole vibe about men has changed sooo much I can’t believe it!! I just find them amusing (most of them ha ha) and where before I would get pi$$ed off if they didn’t phone on the dating site after giving them my number now I just feel aawwww poor guy he is scared of my siren ways. 🙂

    Or if they go on and on like a penpal (like radio guy) I just tell myself he doesn’t want to meet me because he knows I am too much for him to handle LOL!!

    At least that is the story I tell myself, in fact I have started telling myself lots of lovely stories these days and am MUCH kinder and gentler on myself than I ever have been before.

    I was having a lot of NV’s about LD, I mean a lot and we have been circling around each other for some months now, but since I REALLY started using FM messages on him, things have changed and it is all down to my attitude, because let’s face it Sirens we have options just like RR says……….

  158.  #158Butterfly Wings on October 17, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    148: Lilly – TH kept things a secret with me for a while too, and I hated it! Although my situation was different in that neither of us were ready to let our colleagues know that “officially” something was going on.

    In the end, I told him that if he wanted to keep me a secret, then consider it over so he could go and find someone else who wouldn’t mind being kept a secret – and good luck with that!

    Now everybody knows (well, most people) and he’s introduced me to all of his friends outside of work, so it’s not an issue with us anymore as such.

    I know ultimatums aren’t the best way to go in most cases, but this was a dealbreaker for me. And I was going to be ok with either decision he made. Lucky for him, he made the right one! 😉

  159.  #159Butterfly Wings on October 17, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Oh and my ex cheated on me, and I therefore lost all trust in him and that is the main reason why I left. I could not live any longer with a man I did not trust.

    I suppose I hold trust very high in my list of values, and him cheating on me was the dealbreaker for me.

    Before I made my decision I thought about whether I could live like this for another 20 years. I decided that I’d rather be dead. So decision was made!

  160.  #160Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    154 AG How is the skating/rollerblading? There is something about rollerblading that has got me intrigued…it sounds like so much fun! I know it’s end of summer but I still want to get me some! Do you have a helmet and knee pads and all that?

    155 BW yes it is hard! I am kind of losing my patience though.

    156 EW yes I agree it is nice to make up stories! I shall try that too perhaps…I like that idea.

  161.  #161Emerson on October 17, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    what do you sirens think of my dream in #72?? What does it mean….

  162.  #162Ella on October 18, 2011 at 2:10 am

    Butterfly Wings re 120,

    No that really helps. Thank you.

    Yes I am sure there is a massive element of that with me not trusting simply cus of my experiences of the past, kinda like what this post is about…

    Maybe he is here to help me heal that.
    I want to trust him.

    I haven’t told him that I won’t see him, or that I don’t trust him, only that I feel suspicious and mistrusting because that is honestly how I was feeling.

    Well I wonder how it would feel just to be open, and to believe him unless he gives me a reason not to.

    There is quite a big fear factor, like my system goes on high alert because of my past experiences and that is not fair on him.

    There is no harm letting him give to me like any other CD and giving him back my admiration and respect for as long as he continues to earn it.

    The other thing which triggered my fear, apart from living with an ex, is the fact that the guy in the petrol station felt the need to tell me he is a ‘flirt and a ladies man’.

    That NV keeps popping into head on a regular basis!

    Although still even that makes no real difference. I just wonder why he said it!!
    Ok, so I am going to take Susan’s advice and also bear in mind your situation as I go forward with this, and just stay open and noticing and in touch with my feelings, however I am going to give him a chance, and also allow myself to heal my old hurts and fears here.



  163.  #163Ella on October 18, 2011 at 2:21 am


  164.  #164Butterfly Wings on October 18, 2011 at 2:34 am

    161: Ella – Oh yeah I forgot about the “ladies man” thing, but let me tell you ANOTHER story!

    I work with a girl who was telling me about her husband. He used to be a player and a ladies man, which is why she was never interested in him. They had the same circle of friends so she knew what he was like.

    When he eventually asked her out, she said yes, but she went out with him with ZERO expectations! She liked him as a friend, but really didn’t trust him as far as a “real” relationship was concerned. Well eventually he won her over and he earned her trust, and now they are very happily married with two beautiful kids!

    I suppose this boils down to the fact that many players could just be men who’ve not found the right woman yet, so they’re moving from one to the other until they find the right one.

    And how many stories have you heard of men who have always said they’re not ready for a relationship, only to move on to the next woman and propose to her within 6 months?? It’s just that they weren’t ready for a relationship – with the woman they were with at the time!

    In Commitment Blueprint (I’m almost finished – one DVD to go!) Rori talks about opening your heart and keeping it open. Seems like a very scary and vulnerable place to be, but I can see by what she says that it’s also a very powerful place to be, and something I should practise too…

    Yep you may get hurt, but I suppose that’s all a part of healing, right? 🙂

  165.  #165Butterfly Wings on October 18, 2011 at 2:36 am

    Hmm.. just thinking about what I said up there, I’m thinking that men seem to be a LOT better at saying “NEXT!” when they’re with someone they know isn’t right for them… interesting….

  166.  #166Esteemed on October 18, 2011 at 2:40 am

    I feel confused …how many women here are going by some form “Lilly”? Four? And are there multiple Alias Girls and Amazing Mes?

  167.  #167Ella on October 18, 2011 at 2:48 am

    Butterfly Wings

    Thank you.

    Yes that feels good.

    He says he feels something with me. He says he felt a connection from when he first saw me.

    He can imagine a relationship where we are together and have children etc.

    Feels quite overwhelming when we’ve only really seen each other a few times.

    Also feels kinda good though!!


    I have zero expectations.

    Yes open heart can feel good.

    And the ladies man thing doesn’t even really bother me that much… it was just combined with the other thing just triggered me for a min.

    Thank you for sharing your experiences.

    I feel good right now.

    I have learnt a lot in the last week about what I want in my life and what I don’t want.


  168.  #168Ella on October 18, 2011 at 2:52 am

    EW –

    I have no plans to have sex with this guy quickly. In fact I had already decided I won’t.

    And actually I very rarely do with guys (except for J) although I have been experimenting with different things over this past year.

    My ex for example, as in the last REAL boyfriend I had, pre Rori, I didn’t sleep with for over a month and we were seeing each other almost every day.

    Generally I have no problem waiting.

    My general issue here with sex whilst I am doing this Rori thing is marrying together having sex w/o having an exclusive boyfriend.

    Feels tricky.

    Hence the panic about not ever having it before I am married!!



  169.  #169Butterfly Wings on October 18, 2011 at 3:01 am

    So glad you feel good Ella. xxx

    I always knew my past experiences would help somebody some day!

    Actually it’s funny… because of my lack of “luck” with men, we (my family and I) used to joke about how I was a living example to the world of what NOT to do! hehe!

    But even through all of the hurt and pain I’ve experienced in the last 20+ years, I am so grateful for all of it – especially Mr Emotionally Abusive, because he taught me the most! And of course he gave me my beautiful daughter who turns 14 in three weeks!

    I think if you’re able to see the positives (eg. lessons learned) of each relationship, then you’re able to appreciate them.

    In the book (and audio) The Power, Rhonda Byrne refers to the people in your life as PETs – Personal Emotional Trainers. She says some provide you with good lessons, and others provide you with tough lessons – but they ALL teach a lesson of some sort. It’s a great way to look at it I think. 🙂

    Even through all of the pain and suffering I’ve experienced with TH, he has taught me a LOT about how to deal with a truly masculine man too. He’s also done a lot for me and will always be special to me in some way, even if we do eventually go our separate ways.

    So yeah an open heart is a good thing, and as scary as it feels to me to open my heart right now, I know it’s something I need to do – all a part of my learning….

  170.  #170Lyka on October 18, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Lilly, I am not supposed to post here anymore but I still read and your post made me cringe. All I can say is please visit this site:


    I’m sorry to say that this man sounds like a sociopath. The people at lovefraud will be able to help you with your situation. Good luck.

  171.  #171Mel on October 18, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Frustrated Incorporated.

    I’m feeling a little turned-off from dating. It seems that the guys I actually like and would want to slowly develop into something over time are super “into” me for a short while then run away with no explanation. OR the give me an explanation… and it goes something like “gee, until I met you, I THOUGHT I knew what I wanted… but I’m realizing I really DON’T… and I need to figure that out before getting into a relationship…” and then they friend-zone me because they can’t bear to never see me again.

    Grrr! Do you ladies have any idea how many male friends I have because of this? Male friends that would do absolutely ANYTHING for me… except give me what I want? Sigh. I’m sick of being somebody’s therapist. Dudes of the world… have your catharsis BEFORE meeting me ok?!

    And then… the guys that I meet that actually want to stick around seem to have almost zero appeal to me. Either they don’t appeal to me physically (and I’m really not that picky or shallow) OR I can’t seem to connect with them on an emotional level. I really REQUIRE my men to be interesting and good at conversation, and OMG, if they can male me laugh… I am putty in their hands!

    I went out with architect last night, for example. The guy’s decent looking enough. He’s smart… has a great job… but there’s something phony about his conversation. Like he never wants to be contrary. I feel like Holden Caufield… I really can’t stand the phonies. I don’t want a “yes” man. I can’t think of absolutely ONE thing that he disagreed with me on. Is that normal? Am I just looking for drama in my life?

    Also, so far… perhaps because of the “yes man” thing, I feel like he has no sense of humor. Just this blah “yes dear” thing happening. And what I don’t want is to be with someone like that for a while and then find out they’ve been quietly resenting me and go all postal when they finally explode.

    Not sure what’s going on here. Maybe he’s just great and I’m not seeing it because I’m so used to toxic.

    And the worst is that when we write each other, I feel like… hmmm… maybe I could have some feelings with this guy…. he’s pretty cool…..

    And then I see him and I’m like “Not bed! Not bed!” LOL

    I love that I LOL at my own jokes….

    -I love my frustration.
    -I love that I’m a good friend.
    -I love that even my ex’s can’t bear to not have me in their lives… yup! I’m THAT great!
    -I love that I’m cue and funny and smart and sweet… even if it’s getting me nowhere.
    -I love my adventure
    … and I love that I honor my feelings, even if I’m not really sure what they are….


  172.  #172Mel on October 18, 2011 at 3:50 am

    “I am not supposed to post here anymore”

    And Lyka… Please keep posting here!

  173.  #173Mel on October 18, 2011 at 4:16 am


    Him: (to everything…) “That’s cool!” “That’s interesting!” “Wow!” “I agree!”

    Really dude? I know that I’m super cool and incredibly interesting, but have you absolutely nothing else to say? This feels so FAKE! Give me something here! I want SUBSTANCE!

    And then to the friend-zone guys… who tell me things like “Mel… you are such a prize! don’ put up with this crap from these sub-par men!” I just don’t get it. I know I’m a prize. They know I’m a prize… and yet, there’s no hope of a relationship. Why? I feel confused.

  174.  #174Aurora Girl on October 18, 2011 at 4:40 am

    @34 EW

    I was excited to read your post EW……thanks for sharing how things are going with American guy LD…..sounds like you are having more fun this go ’round……and open to where ever it might go…trusting that it’s all good?


  175.  #175Aurora Girl on October 18, 2011 at 4:54 am

    @138, 135

    exactly EW! That is exactly where I met LD and where he met me! lol But I want to share that I had been on eharmony a few years ago and really had to learn how to “use” it …..wade through it….a few years ago I found it exciting, overwhelming, fun…but I was naive I think……this past spring I thought I’d try it again but wasn’t as attached to it, did it just for another go….and my LD popped up within two weeks at the same time as 30 other guys….many of whom emailed, etc. But LD stood out…..and the more we emailed, the more we wanted to talk on the phone and the more we did that the more we wanted to meet and I stuck to Rori’s tools closely….let him come to me….leaned back…and it was amazingly different than my experiences before….

    now the more time we spend together the more we enjoy the discoveries and creativity in walking through this…..he expressed his desire to be exclusive with me…..after about a month of dating….and did not expect me to do the same based on his timing….but after another couple of months, my other cds became secondary and more like friends…..I still focus on what I need but it feels good to let LD in…he is a gentleman through and through…..neither one of us is perfect but the love is growing and seems to know where it’s going…..

    oh yes…and I can’t help notice how the universe is supporting this too….which feels great……

    all good!


  176.  #176Butterfly Wings on October 18, 2011 at 5:07 am

    Awww Mel… 🙁 Maybe these sub par guys are around you so when “the one” comes along, you’ll really, really, really appreciate him???

    That probably doesn’t help you right now though….! :S

  177.  #177Butterfly Wings on October 18, 2011 at 5:18 am

    I was doing some stuff tonight and thinking about one of my closest friends and feeling really happy for her and her guy (I work with him and I introduced them to each other!).

    She flew to New Zealand this afternoon to meet him over there (he’s on an epic holiday!) to spend a week with him. She was so sooo excited to be going over there, and I was talking to him on email earlier and he told me how excited he was that in a few hours she’d be there with him.

    It just made my heart sing that I could bring two people together who are now so happy together! Awww! 🙂

    So while I was sitting there thinking about them and feeling genuinely happy for them, TH messaged me. I hadn’t heard from him since this morning (!) and I was beginning to worry he wouldn’t contact me at all tonight (yeah I know, I need to stop thinking about him when he’s not around!).

    And then I remembered back to when I was listening to The Power there was a section about feeling love. She said something like when you see a couple who look happy and totally in love, if you’re feeling envious of them or jealous, or you’re wishing you had what they had, you’re coming from a place of lack. So by having those thoughts, you’re actually pushing that away from yourself.

    On the other hand, if you can get yourself into a position of love, when you feel genuinely happy for the blessings other people have, then you’re more likely to attract the same.

    It just seems funny that while I was thinking these loving thoughts about my friends, TH sent me a message! Funny huh?

    I’m so bored! TH is off doing his man thing, and I’ve been in bed most of the day with a headache, so please forgive me for today’s ramblings! 😉

  178.  #178Susan on October 18, 2011 at 5:21 am

    RE: 72: Emerson says:

    “@Susan (dream whisperer) 🙂
    I had a dream that I learned that one of my college roommates (whom I have not spoken to in many years) died and I was crying and felt really sad about it…and it was odd because it was not a surprise, like I was expecting to get the news.

    A mutual (crappy) friend, whom I also havent talked to in ages, gave me a weird look and expressed dismay/surprise that I even cared and asked why I was upset…like it was stupid.

    I was in shock and feeling so weird about all of it.

    BTW as far as I know all are still alive, but I really don’t know for sure. 🙁

    What do you think this dream means?”

    ** From what I know about dream interpretation, it is quite possible that all those characters in that dream are you. I’m not suggesting that you are going to die, but that perhaps a part of you is ending and another part of you expected it and is grieving and still another part of you wonders why you care? Dreams are highly symbolic at times. Other times, they are just junk being processed from your day and they don’t mean much at all. If a dream stays with you in waking hours and bugs you, it is probably symbolic. Your subconscious is trying to communicate with you.

  179.  #179Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 6:06 am

    Mel sounds to me like maybe you should try something off the wall different.

  180.  #180English Woman on October 18, 2011 at 6:17 am

    #167 Ella

    Sorry I trod on your toes, of course it is none of my business. 🙁

    It’s just this guy seems so into you and I didn’t want you to miss out.

    Softly, softly, catchee monkey. 😀

  181.  #181VW on October 18, 2011 at 6:19 am

    Thank you Susan for the interpretation of my dream…

    It is very likely being about my own changes and direction…likely because of my emotional status…i felt doubtful…
    warm hugs

  182.  #182VW on October 18, 2011 at 6:20 am

    The work I’ve been doing on myself…is amazing…but it also brings fears that I won’t find a man who can have the growth I’ve acquired…

    Over my last few dates, I noticed game playing…passive aggressive…negative assumptions and evaluations…i am told what i “think”…i am “questioned” a lot…like looking for something to find fault in…and then they step back…

    And then, they return…I hold my space and try to practice openness…use tools to keep me sane…and sometimes, I feel tired…:( I feel defeated…discouraged…

    I recall when I practiced similar behavior (sigh) I didn’t put much thought to it…gossiping was my way to relieve the anxiety…but now, I feel deep sadness…A sense of loss…I am grieving…

    Rori’s post spoke to me…because I did just that recently…”grief” and “gratitude” …

    It is a healing the process…

  183.  #183Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 6:43 am

    Lilly I don’t believe it is hard to know. We all know on some level when something is not right with us or for us. We are just afraid to face the reality and admit it to ourselves because it is not what we are hoping for.

  184.  #184Ella on October 18, 2011 at 6:55 am

    EW – no don’t worry.

    I like what you said to me.


  185.  #185Mel on October 18, 2011 at 6:57 am


    “Mel sounds to me like maybe you should try something off the wall different.”

    How so? Please elaborate! I’m willing to try anything!

  186.  #186Ella on October 18, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Ok Sirens I am not having a good day.

    In fact I am in a complete panick state.

    My businesses simply aren’t working. I’m getting more and more into debt and I simply don’t know what to do!!

    It seems like every which way I try comes to nothing.

    Right now I am feeling completely heart panicky, overwhelmed, tense, frightened.

    Soon I will not be able to pay my mortgage or my rent, and then I am truly screwed.

    This week I have found out that 2 jobs I was relying on through this organisation have fallen through.

    And my other businesses a slow are simply not getting enough returns.

    I’ve run out of money for promoting the businesses and in all honesty I don’t even know where to focus my efforts!

    I feel lost.

    Ironically the one person here who could probably help me is CD1.

    When we first met he took an interest in my business and said he could probably offer me some suggestions if I would like.

    He has a few successful businesses of his own that he has built up and he has a good head for these things. He’s also told me stories about helping out other people in business, he says he likes doing it…

    The irony is he hasn’t been in touch today. His regular calls and texts haven’t come through like they usually do since I saw him yesterday.

    So the one day when I am feeling really overwhelmed, and ready to accept some help is the one day he is not in contact.

    I feel in pieces today.

    Have nearly text so many times and I am holding off because of how it is better not to do things when we are feeling in crisis.

    I’ve also been holding off accepting any business help from him because I feel weird mixing business with personal stuff. And I wanted to keep it personal with him…

    I don’t want him to think that I want any money from him or anything like that and I also feel a bit embarressed/ashamed that I can’t get my businesses to work!!

    Today I was ready to ask him if he would sit down with me and give me some business advice.

    Do you think this will mess up the dating side of things?

    Also, yesterday he mentioned that he is looking for some people to work processing the books at his warehouse thingy, which by the way is the most amazing place! Like an Aladin’s Cave full of books! It feels so peaceful there.

    Well I need money. And I need a flexible job, however again I would feel so weird about working for him. So I didn’t mention it.

    The other option is to look for a ‘proper job’ for myself.

    And tbh I just don’t know what I would do now.

    It feels like giving up on my dreams with my businesses and I feel afraid that in doing a proper job it will affect my Zumba classes and I won’t be able to cope.

    Anyway these are just fears I guess I could look into doing it for a bit, and then maybe review the situation after Xmas.

    I just feel a bit lost right now.

  187.  #187Mel on October 18, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Thanks ButterflyWings!

    It’s funny… because these guy “friends” that think I’m so great, yet friend-zone me say things like… “don’t settle.” “you deserve better.” “you’re an amazing gal!” and “you’ve got the whole package.”

    I seriously don’t get it. I liked them… the guys apparently think I’m really special… so what’s the deal? Grrr!

  188.  #188Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Tiffany they were dating so I am wondering how he could have cheated. What were the terms of their exclusivity? Did it mean the same thing to both people?

  189.  #189Mel on October 18, 2011 at 7:18 am

    And then the ones who just disappear (like sexysarcastic) without a word of explanation… that’s even worse!

    Last time I saw him he couldn’t keep his hands off me, we were super connected emotionally, had a fabulous date… then POOF!

    Blegh. 🙁

  190.  #190Mel on October 18, 2011 at 7:23 am

    And architect wants to see me AGAIN tonight! And my tummy feels bad about that. I don’t think I want to see him. I’m just not feeling it… which makes me feel sad because he actually wants to step up.

    It’s like I have this tolerance for “attention.”

    Hmmm… like I enjoy getting attention, and having guys be into me… but too much feels overwhelming and smothering. perhaps that’s why I’m attracted to the ones that leave me “wanting” a little bit. Feels more comfortable than being showered with attention. What’s going on here?

  191.  #191Ella on October 18, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Just looking through the jobs and it is slim pickings, as well as jobs that would feel soul destroying.

    I am a teacher by trade. I usually teach people about health, fitness and wellbeing.

    The 2 jobs which have fallen through that I mentioned above were through an adult education organisation who want me to teach some courses for them. These were 2 such courses that simply haven’t had any sign ups!

    Now they are saying they still want me to teach for them, however it would not be till after Xmas and I need to be earning money.

    I don’t want to give up on my businesses entirely and I will keep the Zumba no matter what, however I am happy to work doing something additional until things pick up, if I can just find something suitable.

    However just looked through out local paper and there’s really not much there, even less that actually pay something reasonable or are something I could do for longer than a couple of weeks.

    This recession sucks.


  192.  #192Ella on October 18, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Mel I hear ya!


    Exactly where I am at too.

    Getting to the point beyond frustration with it now where I am almost resigned to it. Maybe that is surrender? Who knows.

    I’m with you on the attention thresholds too.

    And guys wanted me who I find seriously icky!


  193.  #193Mel on October 18, 2011 at 7:41 am

    I think if architect would just be himself… perhaps that may change things for me. I don’t need to be “impressed.” I want REAL.

    And I soooo want FUNNY! And I’m feeling really sad about sexysarcastic today. Feeling the grief and loss around that. I had such a GREAT time with him. I could laugh and laugh and be myself. And I felt like being around him brought out my little girl. Then an inexplicable poof. Boo!

    Thanks for the article on grief, Rori. I need to go through this a little I guess.

  194.  #194sammie sighs on October 18, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Hi Daria,

    Glad I could offer something inspirational I learnt from the best! yep I love all your posts! EW yeah it feels so good when you can get your point across with such a clear but calming way I never thought I would get back to this place again I’m loving it.. I have an old friend who I am supporting with probs at the moment and all I do is listen and just be and he called me amazing ha ha love just being feels so free!

  195.  #195sammie sighs on October 18, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Reading the latest blogs re men that are hard work strikes me that by taking energy away from what their doing and by focusing that energy on yourself and feeling like Rori says grateful for what you have now all the rest will just simply fall into place without you doing anything! We are so desperate to make something fit to work like Rori said fix the puzzle hang it up..but we dont have to ! by concentrating on US he will be there or not it will just happen easily and may happen again and again untill the guy who is meant too stay, Stays, without us actually doing a thing…just my thought for the day lol

  196.  #196Mel on October 18, 2011 at 7:57 am

    I feel pouty. That is all.

  197.  #197Ella on October 18, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Hmmm, rightly or wrongly I have just sent a text to CD1 sharing that I am having a bad day and some of the issues with my businesses and how I am feeling.

    Feel panicky now cus I feel vulnerable.

    Don’t know if I want something or if I am just sharing feelings.

    But I feel so intense right now.

    Anyway guess it doesn’t matter.

    I need to go look for a proper job now I think.

  198.  #198Mel on October 18, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Maybe I should just tell architect… I don’t feel like seeing you today. I feel grumpy and pouty and sad and no fun. So I want to go running. Or maybe to dance class. I want to move.

  199.  #199tinque on October 18, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Butterfly Wings – More thoughts on an open heart. Yes it can feel scary and vulnerable, and yes you can feel as if you are more available for allowing hurt, YET doesn’t it feel awful, in some ways worse, having a closed heart. A closed heart can feel numb, painful all by itself and very lonely, and a closed heart can feel a lot of anger, bitterness, sadness.

    An open heart carries far more “power”, for with an open heart you also have far more clarity, allowing you to extricate sooner than later or not get involved in the first place. It allows you to also recognize another open good heart far more easily.


  200.  #200Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 9:57 am

    RE 189 As Gay Hendricks says maybe you should “make a heartfelt commitment that you will allow as much as possible flow through you”. He says we have a thermostat setting for the amount of love we can stand. When we get to that setting we unconsciously do something to sabotage ourselves. His book The Big Leap elaborates on the concept.

  201.  #201Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 10:02 am

    RE 197 Mel I knew you would find the “different” for you. Gay Hendricks talks about telling the microscopic truth and revealing. If that is how you feel I would experiment with telling him that. I would sync up my body language with those feelings. I might even experiment with letting him know our connection feels superficial and I am looking for a deep openhearted connection that I can feel. Maybe even tell him that sometimes I fantasize about him really relaxing and just being himself.

  202.  #202Ella on October 18, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Ok well he told me to call him and I did and we had a long chat.

    He is going to help me get sorted out with my businesses.

    It looks very much like I need to find another job until such time as I get things sorted…


    I could work for him and that just feels super scary and maybe not so good. So I think I will look around for another job first.

    I really, really want to keep the Zumba though. I love it and feel too passionately about it to give it up.

    Plus it keeps me fit and healthy.

    M (that is his new name changed from CD1) has suggested we can sit down together and come up with a plan for marketing me in what I actually do, which is all about health, weight loss, Zumba, Women’s fitness etc…

    he suggested I could affiliate myself to some gyms and promote myself that way and profit share with them.

    He is going to support me with this. And introduce me to some of his friends who own gyms.

    It felt nice talking to him and having his ideas and support.

    AND, just in case it doesn’t work out I am going to look at my other work options and see what other jobs I can do in the meantime, that I can do and still keep my Zumba going whilst hopefully building up that side of things.

    So I will have a look around.

    Feel nervous and relieved all at once.

    I feel glad I shared with him and asked for help… feels like open heart even though I did lean forward to do it.

    Hmmm, I wonder what job will come up for me.

  203.  #203Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Mel how about believing that SexySarcastic got spooked by the intense feelings he is developing for you? He might be feeling stuff he has never felt for a woman before. Sounds to me like it is time for you to focus on some Siren mantras without focussing on anyone in particular to send that energy out there.

  204.  #204Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 10:09 am

    @172: Mel says:
    “…friend-zone guys… who tell me things like “Mel… you are such a prize! don’ put up with this crap from these sub-par men!” I just don’t get it. I know I’m a prize. They know I’m a prize… and yet, there’s no hope of a relationship. Why? I feel confused…””

    Here’s an idea: stop treating the “friend-zone guys” as girlfriends, discussing your dates, other men sub-par and otherwise etc etc.



  205.  #205Mel on October 18, 2011 at 10:16 am



    LOL. Well, that’s how I talk to my friends!

    They are only my “friends” AFTER they tell me that they’re not interested in a relationship. So my theory is… ok, but then you’ll do what friends do. Talk about stuff, help me hang my curtains, have pizza/movie nights, etc. If they want to REALLY be my friend, there has to be something in it for me! 😉

  206.  #206Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I’m on an earring buying spree. You should see my haul!


  207.  #207Mel on October 18, 2011 at 10:18 am

    “Mel how about believing that SexySarcastic got spooked by the intense feelings he is developing for you? He might be feeling stuff he has never felt for a woman before.”

    Thanks FW! In really needed to hear that!

    Have any good Siren Mantras?

    This is my favorite meditation:

    But I need a mantra!

  208.  #208Mel on October 18, 2011 at 10:20 am

    SLV… good idea! I never wear earrings. I SHOULD! 🙂

  209.  #209Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 10:20 am

    @204: Mel

    😆 Lovers hang bookshelves and things too…


  210.  #210beautifulheart on October 18, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Hi everyone on Siren Island! I am a newbie! I have been following the blogs for a few weeks..have the e-book and modern siren and reconnect…in process of digesting it all. I appreciate each of you on these blogs..just reading your comments and feeling your openess and vulnerability has inspired me. I want to begin cding with an online dating site, so I need some help on the mechanics of establishing a good profile as well as tips on how to correspond with emails, etc. Do I put my status as dating? or long-term? If some of you have a profile on POF, would it be possible for me to view it to get an idea of what to say? Thank you for any help you can give me to head me in the right direction with online cding. I’m feeling quite insecure and scared to get started but also feeling excited and open to the possibilities that will make me more aware of myself and able to love myself more fully so that I will be ready when Mr. Right surprises me!!

  211.  #211Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 10:24 am

    @207: Mel

    Oh, treat yourself to a couple of pairs!!! They don’t have to be expensive. Pretty, feminine, exotic or cute… available at all price points.

    I’m moving on to rings next, Ones I can wear, big bodacious ones.


  212.  #212Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Drinking coffee and catching up on posts…

  213.  #213Mel on October 18, 2011 at 10:41 am

    I actually feel kinda proud of myself for the way I handled sexysarcastic.

    Of course, I’ll never know for sure… but I suspect the reason he avoided me rather than just tell me he was not “available” for our scheduled dates is because he’s used to a lot of drama from women.

    I didn’t give him ANY drama! I just said how I felt (disappointed, sad, a little clueless about dating) but that this situation felt icky to me and I didn’t feel comfortable chasing after him. I was understanding of his busyness ans stress, but still stated my boundaries. I will NOT chase. I feel open to dating in the future, but I’m leaving that up to you to figure out.

    He actually thanked me. He should thank me. I am probably the first cute, smart, funny, AND drama-free woman he’s ever met. 😉

  214.  #214Mel on October 18, 2011 at 10:47 am


    So I did exactly as I said… told architect I felt grumpy, pouty, sad and no fun. That I wanted to go to running or to a class to make me feel better.

    He replied: Hi Grumpy, No problem at all. I totally understand. If you feel better later, give me a call.

    Yay! I feel good honoring my feelings and doing what makes me feel best. 🙂

  215.  #215Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:47 am

    @ 141, EW –

    Just making an observation here – that email feels a little ick to me, btw, but disregarding that, I never took it from the email that he was leaving POF permanently, just, “…calling it a day on here.”

    Not meaning to pick things apart, it’s just that I’m super aware of how my perception and others’ perceptions differ at the moment. I’m still reading through, catching up. It just seems to me that with my being aware and vigilant about my perceptions right now, I’m seeing different things perceived differently all over the place. And maybe it’s always been like this and I just haven’t been as aware.

    And I’m not even sure what this means for me, or how it will affect me in the future, I just feel interested in it. Hmmm

  216.  #216Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Congrats to you Mel. I am sure that gave your self esteem a boost, standing up for yourself like that. I wonder how he would have reacted if you had included “and I love my grumpy self so I might just take her out for a whirl on the dance floor”?

  217.  #217Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Hi Beautifulheart. It might be more personal if you draft something and post it here so people could respond.

  218.  #218Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Mel one thing I keep saying “I am a magnetic siren singing a song so enchanting, it brings you closer and closer to me” as I imagine the picture in my mind of a mermaid type female with perfect skin and men coming towards me. I even say it out loud sometimes to remind myself and to lift my vibe.

  219.  #219Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I feel less judgmental of men these days. I had a love/hate relationship with them for a very long time. I emailed MM man back and forth for months. And I read stuff that said, “if a guy’s not setting up a date within 2 weeks of contacting you, let it go.” But I did what felt right, because honestly, he was so supportive, positive and uplifting in his emails – even when I was doubting myself or feeling down, that I decided I didn’t care if he was never anything more than an email buddy. And about the time I became cognizant of that, he gave me his phone number. Which I didn’t call – I gave him mine in return a week or so later and then he still didn’t call for about a week. But when he did, he set the time and place for our first date – no more messing around. And he’s the highest quality man I’ve dated up to this point in my life.

    So…call me a rebel. I love all this dating advice, coaching, yes imn even beginning to love EMK’s tough love style, but when I put all the voices (including my NVs) aside and do what feels right to me, I feel more at peace. I don’t question myself so much. Obviously it remains to be seen whether this will end up being an epic love story or if he’s just a stepping stone to my forever after, but I feel pretty good about “taking my own counsel” on this one. NOW…to concentrate on staying in the moment…

  220.  #220Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Emerson, @72-

    Do you feel like your feelings are being downgraded by someone? Or do you have an underlying belief, maybe, that you overreact to things and your feelings are out of proportion to the events happening at the moment?

    Maybe your subconscious is trying to tell you that your feelings are legitimate and anyone who doesn’t believe so is a “crappy” friend?

  221.  #221alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:16 am

    205 slv i feel excited!!!!

  222.  #222Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Why is Lyka not supposed to post here anymore? I feel confused.

  223.  #223Lilly on October 18, 2011 at 11:17 am

    I have been reading about letting go of our emotions.
    I am going to try this here:

    I feel deep pain and hurt over being lied to.

    I feel fear and anxiety about being in this position I am now in and I hate myself for putting me in it.

    I feel angry, sad and frustrated that it seems no matter
    what I do I end up with men who lie to me and do not have my best interest at heart.

    I feel sadness and empathy for all the women on here to go through so much pain and suffering due to the actions of men.

    I feel disheartened that so many women do not have the inside strength and/or outside resources to take care of themselves.

    I feel lonely, disconnected and utterly hopeless that anything will every change.

    I am crying my eyes out not knowing what to do.

    I feel like a pathetic loser with men that will never have a healthy relationship because I am not skilled at picking good ones.

    I looked at the site on sociopaths and my guy has about ten of the twenty things. This is scary to me. I feel sad and angry and bitter and helpless.

    I feel trapped.

    I feel disrespected and unloved.

    I feel a little better writing this down.

  224.  #224Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:32 am


    Rori suggests telling guys who want to “friend-zone” us that we’re not looking for a friend and don’t have time for that. And then walk away. Do you think if you did that, one of these great guys in your friend zone might see that they actualy don’t want to live without you and then step up? Just feeling curious about this.

  225.  #225Mel on October 18, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Architect just replied:

    P.S. I think Grumpy Mel is adorable.

    Oh dear… that just makes me feel MORE grumpy because I’m just not feeling anything for him, and I’m not sure what to do about that.

    Architect, architect… if only you knew the reason I’m feeling so grumpy, sad, and pouty is because a guy I actually DID have some feelings for has vanished.

  226.  #226Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 11:50 am

    @220: alias girl lol says:
    “…205 slv i feel excited!!!!…”

    Me too! I’ve been visiting street vendor stands.

    Yay for the street vendors! Instant siren-ness at our fingertips for just a couple of bucks.

    (I plan to hang jewelry on my Christmast tree.)



  227.  #227Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 12:42 pm


  228.  #228alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    225 SLV yae! earring shopping from street vendors sounds FUN!!!

  229.  #229alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    222 yae lilly! your feelings! i feel excited!

    also when i “riff” i try to add how much i love my feelings. i love feeling tricked and disappointed.

    for me i was taught to really sort of disown the “bad” feelings. this way i am accepting and loving ALL parts of me and all my feelings.

    all of my feelings are acceptable and lovable. i love and cherish them!!!

    when daria riffs she really gets into how the feelings feel in her body also. and she tracks them.

    (((((Hugs)))))), lilly.

  230.  #230alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    well let me rephrase.

    i love my disappointment

    rather than i love feeling disappointment.

    subtle difference for me but it feels kind of important in my mind.

    i actually dont love feeling disappointment

    but since i am feeling disapointment, then i do love my feelings of disappointment.

    but i dont love feeling disappointment like i want more of it. not like i love going to the fair.

    dang it.

    i feel like i just complicated riffing.


  231.  #231Starla on October 18, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Alias Girl lol

    u feelin better today?

  232.  #232Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    I would wonder why the parts of my body that I hated most kept growing?

    It wasn’t until I made a startling discovery…

    Whatever you FOCUS on, you CREATE MORE of it!

    It’s one of the KEY breakthroughs I made that finally allowed me to choose to send loving thoughts to my body …

    And to FOCUS on what I LOVE most about this amazing body that I’ve been given.

    – how I feel

    – how my energy carries me through doing what I love most in life

    – how moving gives me freedom to be with the people I love the most

    – how much this body does for me in every single moment of every single day!!!

    I began to appreciate and LOVE my body for all the amazing things that it DOES… and the weirdest thing started happening…

    Those body parts stopped growing.

    In fact, they started shrinking!

    I started to drop the extra weight that I had been carrying onto for YEARS.

    It’s a simple discovery that gave me the FREEDOM to love my reflection in the mirror, and one of the KEYS I figured out to lose weight naturally and keep it off for over ten years now!

    And what’s crazy, is that my relationship with my body keeps getting better even as I get older 🙂

    Andrea Albright

  233.  #233Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Did You Know:
    Men are more likely than women to be more flexible in their romantic choices when they are looking for short-term relationship—though when they want a long-term mate, they become pickier about basic virtues. – Helen Fisher

  234.  #234Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    1) Making Excuses for Him…

    This originates from the fact that women, in general, are very protective of those that they love. Often a woman fears that her relationship might end, or be severely damaged, if she confronts a man about his negative behavior(s).

    The irony is, by making excuses for a man’s poor conduct, a woman unknowingly causes that man to lose respect for her, even though her intention may be nothing more than to be kind. Many men believe that if a woman is too insecure to confront a man when he is behaving badly, then she is not strong enough to be trusted emotionally as a partner.

    2) Sharing How You “Feel” Too Early With Him…

    Women often forget that men don’t “feel” as frequently as they do. In fact, most of the time, men don’t feel anything at all. Men tend to feel intensely and in short bursts
    – like when they go to a sporting event, or when they want sex. When a woman shares her feelings too early in a relationship it is often overwhelming to a man.

    If a woman wants to encourage a man to bond with her, then she should remember this… men bond by overcoming a challenge. In order for a man to desire to get closer to a woman, it is in that woman’s best interest not to allow a new relationship to progress too quickly, or too intensely.

    Taking a relationship at a slower pace will cause a man to feel a bit frustrated, and will actually make him want to draw nearer to a woman. As he initiates more dates and asks more questions, only then should she share her feelings. If a woman paces the
    relationship, a man will not only listen to her express her feelings, he will also feel what she’s saying.

    Bob Grant

  235.  #235Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 1:26 pm

  236.  #236Ella on October 18, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Oh I feel so disheartened and lost.

    I can’t believe the last year of blood, sweat and tears promoting my businesses is going to come to nothing.

    What is the point?

    I was trying to do what I loved… I was trying to help people. I have skills and something to give.

    And apparently all that means Sh7t!

    So I am looking for a job… and it seems there is NOTHING for me!!

    I feel sick to my stomach and like a failure right now.

  237.  #237Ella on October 18, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    CD1 said I could go and work for him.

    Although I feel totally icky about it I am seriously considering it.

    I need to earn money.

    I am in serious debt and financial trouble and if I don’t do something I will not be able to afford my mortgage.

  238.  #238Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Ella don’t believe it. You are “in transit”.

    “Living your life with no thoughts in your mind that stick and stay, and with feelings in your gut that come and go and filter through and float away (even if they feel bad and painful sometimes as they come and go) – that’s the way to live your life ALIVE.”

  239.  #239Ella on October 18, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    FW – thank you.

    And I still just have no idea which direction to go in right now.

    Usually something presents itself.

    Right now I feel like I am flailing about in the dark.

    I know… I am in transit.

    I just though I knew my path and it turns out I don’t.

    Feel very vulnerable right now.

  240.  #240English Woman on October 18, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    #214 Sweetpea

    Might be the difference between UK/USA…if we say we are calling it a day it usually means it is over/finished, but no offence taken as this was just a practise man. 🙂

  241.  #241turquoise on October 18, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I just have a quick minute, but will get on again tonight to catch up. I’m heading home from work, need to run the girls to gymnastics, get some dinner… and then back home to relax and catch up. I’ve missed the blog! Nothing new or romantic in my life, but did get a call from a guy I went out with a few times 2 years ago. Made me chuckle… they do come back! But, I don’t care anymore, so not really interested in seeing him. Besides, he lied about his age and that really bothers me. Just be honest 🙂

    Anyways, life is good, love the new house, doing lots of soul searching and feeling my feelings to figure out what I really want out of my life.

    2 year anniversary since my sister lost her battle with breast cancer. Miss her every single day, but remembering all the good times, and still feel like she’s part of my life.

    Ok, off to run for a few hours then back home to my crappy computer to catch up! Hope everyone is well!!!

  242.  #242Femininewoman on October 18, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    TURQUOISE great to “hear” from you.

  243.  #243Daria on October 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    im feeling slow and deep with tired aroudn that

    back in california

  244.  #244Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    @239: English Woman says:
    “… Might be the difference between UK/USA…if we say we are calling it a day it usually means it is over/finished…”

    That’s what it means in the US too (time to quit) but we Yanks are so determined, tenacious, stubborn and hate-to-lose (and even if we do lose, don’t admit it… ) that we sometimes take the “Scarlett O’hara approach…

    …and it becomes… “Fiddlee-dee” and “…After all tomorrow is another day…”


  245.  #245Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    How did my Scarlett O’Hara post disappear…?

  246.  #246Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Oh, well… Yank that I am. Here it is again…

    @239: English Woman says:
    “… Might be the difference between UK/USA…if we say we are calling it a day it usually means it is over/finished…”

    That’s what it means in the US too (time to quit) but we Yanks are so determined, tenacious, stubborn and hate-to-lose (and even if we do lose, don’t admit it… ) that we sometimes take the “Scarlett O’hara approach…

    …and it becomes… “Fiddle-dee-dee” and “…After all tomorrow is another day…”


  247.  #247Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Hmmm, it doesn’t say I’m in moderation and I have no idea how those posts could be offensive?


  248.  #248Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:50 pm


  249.  #249Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    so SAD to be invisible… 😥

  250.  #250Jessie on October 18, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    I want to post a quick acknowledgment. Not only was this post today beautiful and completely where I’m at, but Rori, you have changed my life in so many positive ways that I can no longer count. The blessings just keep on coming. I’m so very grateful.

    I recently stood my ground with a very toxic man in my life and his anger fully came at me. In the past, I wouldn’t have known how to deal with that and would have done everything I could to avoid it, however, after learning to love myself and using so many of your wonderful tools, I was able to stay in the moment, feel what I was feeling, honor that and remain calm. The more I stayed in touch with the love I had for myself and honored my boundaries, the more angry he became. He chose to walk away today, and I’m happy that he did.

    I plan to go through the grief process you mentioned and then go out there and start circular dating. And I’m really excited about that – that’s a first for me. Dating has always seemed like a chore, but circular dating sounds fun!

    And to all you women on this board posting and supporting each other – you’re amazing! I love how you all open your hearts and are so positive and loving.


  251.  #251Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Scarlett O’Hara and I will leave now… until we figure it out…

    And as G*D is my witness… I shall return.

  252.  #252Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Another one gone!

    Is it Miss S——- causing the trouble?

  253.  #253Senior Lady Vibe on October 18, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    guess… or something else…

    hmmmm. I’ll go be happy now.

  254.  #254Ella on October 18, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Lyka why are you not allowed to post here anymore?

  255.  #255Ella on October 18, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    I think I am going to say yes to working for him.

  256.  #256alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    #230 starla YES!!!!! i feel quite the self-loving, accepting-where-i-am, unstoppable siren!!!!

    thanks for inquiring! i felt happy to read about your success with that side job you picked up. acknowledgement and praise for a job well done always feels so good!!!

  257.  #257alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    247 SLV happened to me last night. weird glitch or siren island gremlin in the machine.???

  258.  #258luzydel on October 18, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Hello everyone! it’s been a while 😉 Still going out with the same guy, for about three months now. not Circular dating in the sense of officially dating more than one guy, but do go out date myself and flirt when I can :). I don’t feel like having more than one right now and I am enjoying this guy. I am not even asking where things are going I used to do that a lot but now even though some times I get a little insecure, I don’t feel desperate.
    I admit that sometimes I feel like I am falling for this guy. He is who he is, and makes time for me. How ever, when I start day dreaming, I get back to reality and get back on my horse.

    I do think about marriage some times but in the way of Hmm “it will be nice if I get the chance to do it again better”, I don’t know where things are going and I know I am taking a chance here, but I am learning to be open and not be afraid of intimacy, I have not deleted my profiles, but they are hidden. He hid his also and we are not seeing others. Still sometimes I get a bit afraid and feel like hiding under a rock…I am feeling exposed and vulnerable.

  259.  #259Daria on October 18, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Tina – you’re back! Ong girl I been thinking about you!

    Pls email me your email at magicgoddessmedicinewoman@gmail.com so I can have an email to keep in touch

  260.  #260Diana on October 18, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Hello everyone, I have started circular dating. I am having problems keeping things going, guys always want me to contact them. I do not initiate contact, I know they are interested they will call but stop because they think I am not interested. After a while of no communication, they will call or text. I’ve been told text me anytime call me anytime. I don’t know how to respond to that. I’m not sure how to communicate, that I’m interested but I will not be calling.

    There is also a guy that lives out of town, a couple of hours from where i live. We have not met yet. He is only available for a date when he comes into town for business and has to schedule the date two weeks in advance for our first date. We hardly know each other. He texted me, to text him anytime so that we can visit until our date in 2 weeks.

    I need all the help I can get ..Thank YOU!

  261.  #261Lilybelly on October 18, 2011 at 4:47 pm



    Well, I am Lilybelly, here for about the last eight months or so. I was just Lilybelle but it got changed sometime ago.

    So, here I am. 🙂

    Hee hee…

  262.  #262Ella on October 18, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Ok I am thinking that I just need to re-focus my efforts.

    I am told that I am really good at Zumba.

    If I just re-focus all my efforts onto that, and drop the Avon side, which is not really working, then I could make a go of it.

    I was thinking to set up some daytime sessions for women including weight loss advice. And then the evening sessions will remain as pure Zumba. So I would do one morning session and one evening session each weekday = 10 sessions per week.

    I only need to earn around £30 profit from each class which translates to around 10-12 people per class.

    I feel reasonable confident that if I put as much effort into promoting these classes as I do to the Avon then I could achieve that.

    Plus I could choose areas where there are lots of women who are likely to be around during the daytime, and may have disposable income.

    Plus I would still be doing what I love.

    I could also advertise in local parish magazines.

    And that would earn me enough money, plus it might even lead me to other income.

    But what if I am wrong and I can’t make it work?

    I am already in debt.

    Ladies do you have any thoughts on my ideas please?

    I would really appreciate any input as I am feeling at a loss about what direction to take atm…

    Thank you.

  263.  #263Lilybelly on October 18, 2011 at 5:03 pm


    LOVE this idea, SLV!

  264.  #264Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Ella –

    I wish I knew what to say. I’m feeling bad about my biz right now, too. I’ve been doing journaling on how it will feel to work with high-end clients and that helps both to bring down my panic level and up my vibe. It’s helpful, I think to have good energy floating around me, plus I find that it helps to “unblock me” and helps me with marketing ideas.

    I still feel blocks to abundance and am seeking ways to clear them. I truly believe that this is the biggest problem for me – it’s not that the clients aren’t out there, or that there’s not enough money to go around, or that I’m npot talented enough, or even that there aren’t people who’d love to share their abundance with me in exchange for my expertise. But somehow I’m still blocking it somehow. I became convinced a couple of years ago when I would figure my budget and should have had an extra $500 – 600/mo, but was still struggling to make ends meet that there was something going on with me – I’m not sure yet what it is. Feeling unworthy, still waiting for Prince Charming to come sweep me away…but I feel my beliefs around money are shifting.

    As far as approaching it from a weight-loss perspective, what about working more one-on-one with clients with respect to that and charging more for your expertise? Then you could also have a class 2 or 3 times/week geared especially for your weight-loss clientele?

    I think you can do this, girl! I think we both can make a go of our own business. Are we not worthy of success? Are we not worthy of abundance and prosperity?! Are we not talented enough to use the gifts we’ve been blessed with, not just to support ourselves, but to help others as well? Why yes! Yes we are! Heehee. I feel better now, thanks. I hope this encourages you, too.

  265.  #265LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 5:37 pm



    That’s how I ended up in the situation I am now.

    When I 1st met him, we were fresh out of our seperations from long term comitted relationships. I did not trust myself to start a relationship so soon after a split, and I did not trust him to want to be with me for the right reasons after his fresh split.
    So I turned him down…plus I wasn’t attracted.

    Then we ran into each other again another 8 months later. He had been seeing someone for 2 months and left her to be w me.

    I started out “frozen” out of fear. I did not have my heart open, and he was “the list” man. He worshiped the ground I walked on, did everything for me and had eyes only for me.
    He got tired of my holding back, not giving back, being cold…so after 5 months, he started to act like he is now and gradually got worse and worse. Nothing is bringing him back to the way he was during those 1st 5 months, not FMs, nothing.
    I feel like I lost my chance for the right man.

    But then I wonder if he was really the right man. Wouldn’t the right man step up to be comitted to our relationship? He doesn’t trust me bc he felt rejected by me for so long, then I suddenly turn around and I am head over heals for him.

    It’s hard to gain a man’s trust after he has felt rejected by a woman.

  266.  #266Starla on October 18, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Ella, Avon is a losing battle for many people. I tried it and failed miserably. And you know I’m not the ‘failure’ type!

  267.  #267Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 5:44 pm


    I see your question, however this isn’t my area of strength so I don’t feel all that comfortable answering. What I’ve done in the past though, is simply tell them that it would feel better if they contact me. Then I make sure I let them know I’m happy to hear from them when they do.

    I hope that some of the other Sirens will give you more concrete examples.

  268.  #268Ella on October 18, 2011 at 5:48 pm


    Thanks 🙂

    Yes it does help.

    I am going to go ahead and get stuck in.

    I am also going to just approach from a view point of enjoying and getting involved.

    I will also be open to CD1 and I may well take some fill in work from him if the offer is still open.

    I really feel I have so much to offer, and have had some success already with the Zumba classes.

    Plus I love doing it.

    If I didn’t need money to pay my bills I would feel so much more relaxed about this which would in turn make it all easier.

    However I enjoy doing the classes, interacting with women and also promoting the classe.

    I hope the one to one work will follow. I tried to get one to one work to start with and nothing really came about.


  269.  #269Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 5:52 pm


    I seem to remember someone saying, “I’m a little old-fashioned and it would feel better if you contact me.”

    Is that right ladies?

  270.  #270Starla on October 18, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    255 Diana,
    Try telling them “it feels so good to hear your voice” when they call you.

    When they say “call me any time,” I think “aw thanks!” and tell then “okay.” Cuz I’m appreciating the green light they’re giving me to call them i ever desire to, and i’ll cash in on that promise if i have a flat tire or something:P

    If you’re really authentically inviting when they do contact you, they won’t think you’re not interested. Sometimes it still comes up, so you can let them know you feel old fashioned and dont like chasing men, and it feels great when he calls you.

  271.  #271Starla on October 18, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    264 right!

  272.  #272Ella on October 18, 2011 at 5:56 pm


    Yes so I am realising, although as usual I thought I would be the one person who could make it work!!!

    Same as all those toxic relationships of the past.


    Oh well, lets just hope Zumba is more achievable and my calling…

  273.  #273tinque on October 18, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    “changed sometime ago” – yes by me lol, accidentally the first time, but I like it, so I keep it, and I feel so happy Miss Lillybelly likes it too.


  274.  #274Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Ella, now that you have a venue for your Zumba class, could you put a flyer up there offering one-on-one services for weight-loss?

  275.  #275Ella on October 18, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Sweetpea, Yes I can, although it does not seem to make much difference.

    Maybe I have a block too.

    Or maybe it is this icky recession.

    Either way the one to one work has never taken off as yet…

  276.  #276Ella on October 18, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Ok so now I feel kinda a little bit excited… about focusing on this part of my business, and not having to worry about the Avon anymore.

    However I also feel a lil nervous too and hella anxious about my finances.

    Still, I am sure if I just take it steady and remain open the Universe will provide.

  277.  #277Starla on October 18, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Ella, have you collected everyone’s emails? Send out a newsletter every few weeks announcing your specials and offers and services.

    You might have done this already, so forgive me if i just don’t know!

  278.  #278LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 6:22 pm



    I know your post wasn’t meant for me, but thanks anyway for writing it.
    That’s what I did Sunday night, it didn’t feel good so I stopped doing it.

    I asked him to stop calling me,

    I said:
    “I don’t want to see you anymore and I don’t want to talk anymore.
    I don’t want to be friends and I don’t want to be FWB.
    I am worth more than a couple of hours here and there and it’s time I took my self esteem back and stopped pining for a man that doesn’t make me feel important or worthy.
    We’ve been talking about it for a year and I can’t keep feeling bad like this anymore.
    I feel unimportant, I feel stupid and it makes me feel angry that I would let myself be treated that way! I can’t keep feeling like this!
    You’re happy w the way things are, well go and live your full freedom, bc I want something else and I don’t want to b your mom and tell you what to do.
    I wasn’t ready for a comitted relationship when I met you, now I am.
    So move over and leave the space for the man who will be in love w me and want to be w me in a real relationship. I only want to hurt you right now.”

    He left saying that he’s fed up of his life, that he makes all women angry at him. I didn’t answer that, and it didn’t make feel bad at all.

    I just felt like saying “grow the f*k up!!! then maybe women won’t be angry at you!!!”…but I didn’t.

    I used to feel bad about being so mean, well I don’t now. I don’t feel mean, bc I don’t care about hurting his feelings anymore, I just care about honouring mine!

    That was Sunday, and he calls me today at work to say that he wanted to hear my voice. What is he maso’st?!! He wants to be yelled at some more???

    Makes me even more angry, bc he’s just saying whatever he needs to suck me in again, then he’ll act like an a** to prove to me that he can do whatever the he** he wants and that he has all the power over me! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!

    I wouldn’t even have taken his call if I was at home. At work I answer automatically like a machine coz it rings off the hook.

    This post came at the right time. Bc I will grieve to the end of putting up w feeling like 3rd rate.

  279.  #279Tiffany on October 18, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Ella –

    Hugs to you!

    Maybe working with M/CD1 is not such a bad idea. I can get why you wouldn’t want to mix biznazz with “pleasure” – but on the other hand, it gives you more excuses to see/communicate with each other. Plus, he can potentially help you, which, you know guys love that 😉 Not only that, maybe he can help you to the point where you won’t rely on him anymore, and then you can go and find other options. As long as you don’t become financially and emotionally dependent, it seems like a great potential arrangement, if you can do it comfortably!

    And I posted one story of a great moment I had this week. But when I said business was ‘slow’ that was a huge understatement. I am undergoing massive amounts of stress with regard to my business and my finances, and I, too, am struggling with the idea of getting a “real” (i.e. soul-killing) job, just to make ends meet. And at the same time knowing how wrong that is for me, personally. Not to mention the stress and difficulty of finding a job. But I have to do SOMETHING, because my own father – much as I love him – is an unreliable person to work for. And I just keep going back for more. I KNOW that financial independence will give me SOOOO much freedom and separation from my parents and my past. And that’s probably a big part of the problem. As much as I like to think that I am separate and independent from them, I’m not. I never have been. And some of that is me, and some of that is them.

    I’ve definitely thought about the fact that, inadvertently, I keep myself in a financially struggling situation because I don’t want to succeed and “embarrass” or “show up” my parents, but it’s really more complicated than that. I think I am chemically dependent on some sort of gratification I get from “helping” them feel better by “helping” me. Yikes.

    I know I can get out of this. My brother did it. Trouble is, my brother was always loved and accepted by my mother, whereas I was not. And I was the oldest, so I had no buffer from them. I am literally and figuratively closer to them.

    I feel sure that this is a huge part of what is “blocking” me and keeping me back from succeeding. And the truth is, I don’t fear succeeding because of how my parents will feel. I fear success, because in the past, any time that I have started to succeed, I have sabotaged myself and then suffered worse loss than I have started with. All of this is leaving me numb and really, really wary of success.

    Even though it’s something I keep chasing after anyway. And I’m still thinking positively, and praying for my clients that I already have, and new ones that I’ve marketed to, to think of me and start calling me – for their own reasons. And I’m jumping on my trampoline (in my mind), that gets me at least a peek, and a moment, where I can imagine myself on the level with others who have broken through the “wall” of success and are happy and content with abundance in their lives.

    That makes me feel good. And so I guess I can keep doing that, and keep doing what I’m doing.

    Even though I feel so down sometimes, and like I just can’t do it either, despite the fact that I know I’m very talented and very, very much worth paying for.

    Because I am 🙂

  280.  #280Starla on October 18, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    My belly dance teacher and fiddle teacher require it…and then they send out friendly emails when new classes are starting or there is a cool performance to check out. I signed up with both of them for additional services they promoted through an email.

  281.  #281Tiffany on October 18, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    @LILI 41 #273 – Funny how guys always pursue you more after you (genuinely) reject them like that..

    I feel like I see this all the time lol

  282.  #282Ella on October 18, 2011 at 6:27 pm


    No I haven’t… cus I have been focusing on the Avon so haven’t really been doing stuff like this for the Zumba/fitness/weight loss…

    Which is why I am thinking that if I focus all my work energy on it maybe I can make a go of it…

    Thank you.

    Great Suggestion 🙂

  283.  #283Ella on October 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Starla re 275

    Ah – cool.

    Good to know. xx

  284.  #284LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 6:30 pm


    Tiffany: Yeah, they love the thrill of the chase and winning the prize…but what do they do as soon as they feel like they won the prize? IIIIIIIRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

  285.  #285Tiffany on October 18, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Funny. I’ve been thinking of “NEXT-ing” TDH for some time now. Odd how that makes me inadvertently want to reach out to him. But part of me wants to just call him and tell him how I feel so I can get it off my chest and not be thinking or worrying about it anymore. I really don’t have any expectations or anything I want from him at this point. I feel totally comfortable with whatever happens – just not with FWB. I could also just walk away without saying anything, and exercise my “no closure” experience. Oh, the choices! lol

    But I think I’m going to call him. I’m afraid to and I’m scared. My heart is pounding and I feel nervous and shaky about it….And maybe that’s really a sign that I need to do it. it’s scary to say what’s really on my heart and mind.

    But guys aren’t mind-readers…lol

  286.  #286LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Speaking of asking abundance to the Universe…

    It’s funny how it can fall in your lap from where you least expect it.

    The cleaning person at work keeps complaining about his pay…His very good friend won the lottery jackpot. millions$$$!!!
    This friend gave him enough money to buy a car and a downpayment on a condo. It will cost him the same as his current rent, the difference is it will be a lot nicer and soundproofed.

    I’m impressed at how it just fell in his lap so unexpectedly.

  287.  #287alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    281 lili41 yes yes yes!!! abundance is more than just money. if we focus only on money we may miss other ways of letting abundance in!!!!

    the universe bends around me. YES!

    and i am going to the haunted hayride!!!!! no matter what!!!!

  288.  #288LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 6:48 pm


    Yep Tiffany, you should definitely get things off your chest before you end up exploding.

    I felt detached before D came back from his trip. But then he started inviting me to be involved w his son’s activities and I took as a sign of committement and got to excited. Then he let me down by planning another trip without me in only 3 weeks after he came back.
    I guess I was detached while he was away, but got re-attached pretty quickly on the day he came back. I guess I was in denial of my expectations. Bc I was so disappointed when he announced another vacation trip with his friends.
    He used to stay home if I couldn’t go on vacation w him, and cook my supper for me, do my cleaning, washed my car all while I was at work. I guess he felt used and abused coz he stopped and started treating me like this.

    There I go again getting all into myself…this was supposed to be about you Tiffany. Sorry.

  289.  #289Tiffany on October 18, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Ooohh, I feel so nervous and anxious!

    I did it. I called his phone. And I knew he wouldn’t answer, so I was (kind of) prepared with what I wanted to say. I wrote down some stuff beforehand. but I didn’t want to read it off like a script and sound stilted. (plus it was a little long, lol)

    I think I said what I wanted to say. At least I hope I did! I basically told him that I liked him and thought he was really great, and one of the better guys I’ve dated recently (hopefully a compliment). But that it sounded like what he really wanted was friends with benefits, and that i just wasn’t interested in that kind of relationship. So we could either be “friends” or “benefits” but not both. Well, what I said was, we could be friends, or more than friends – and that I’d be happier with more than friends – but not both.

    I hope that came across okay. I hope that I didn’t sound patronizing or condescending. I told him that he’s a “big sweetie,” and after I said that, it felt bad, like not a really manly thing to say to a guy! But at this point, I don’t care. He could call me back or not call me back. At least I’ve stated clearly where I stand and what I want – and don’t want.

    Hooray! If I had champagne, I would drink it right now. Hey, wait, I have a party to go to tonight! Yay! 🙂

    Party time! 🙂

  290.  #290Diana on October 18, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Thank you Starla, I will definately put your advice to good use. That should also help keep things going, with comunication back and forth

  291.  #291LILI 41 on October 18, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Gonna watch The Little Couple on TLC channel, starts in a couple of minutes. It makes me feel all gaga good n mushy to watch them. They’re so full of love for each other in their everyday life.

  292.  #292Tiffany on October 18, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    @ LILI 41 – no worries. I do the same thing here all the time! 🙂

    That’s such a great story in #281! I’m impressed that the guy’s friend was so generous.


    And about “winning the prize” (i.e. when he “wins” you – not the lottery;) – TOTALLY!! Partly I think that may have happened with TDH. He may have felt that he “got me” where he wanted (a friend he could call at the last minute to hang out and have sex with any time), and then he just stopped really showing up altogether, except in a few text messages. So that felt pretty unsatisfying. So, yay. I DO feel better after saying what I had to say.

    Also, the word B*tch is kind of demonized here, but I am a huge fan of Sherry Argov’s stuff (Why Men Marry B*tches, etc.). Her definition of “B*tch” ironically is not all that different from our definition of a “Siren” here. So I think the work is pretty complementary. And she talks a lot about staying “just out of reach.” Not by playing games. Just by being true to yourself, and unpredictable enough so that he can never be quite sure if he “has” you – even if he’s married to you! Kind of cool.

  293.  #293Diana on October 18, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    Thank you Sirens,

    I am slowly dating here and there. Im trying to keep things going and start a regular dating schedule going. Mean while Im trying to learn as much as I can before I put it into action. For some reason men always throw the ball in my court no matter what they have a response and want me to be the initiater. when I don’t call things dye down.

  294.  #294R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    @288 I feel the same way I feel the guy should or would call if I was what he wanted….I haTE feeling lonely….

  295.  #295R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    What I want him to know… http://youtu.be/rpAIjVGy-zU

  296.  #296Kim on October 18, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Hi everyone!
    My work has this site blocked!! Well all blogs are blocked but wow it’s hard to keep up this late 🙂 Can someone tell me what “lean back and lean forward” mean?
    Good news…I went to my meeting today but talked to him before I left for it. He told me to call him when my meeting was over to see if he was in one or not. I did call (I know that I shouldn’t have) he answered! I didn’t see him because he had a meeting too but he did answer. I am thinking I need to try the leaning that you all talk about. I just don’t know what it is or how to do it.

  297.  #297R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    @291 Kim leaning back is when you lean back in your life and take care of yourself and let time tell if he decides to step up. Meanwhile your making a good space in your life if not for him someone else. Leaning forward is what we all do at one point and that is when you lean forward and call him, you take the steps to persue or get answers sometimes it can be okay but it is risky….XOXO hope this helps.

  298.  #298R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Some say leaning forward is a bad choice and usually is in some cases maybe not. Some sirens say and even Rori says It too I believe is that it is taking more of a masculine role and we as women need to practice being in our feminine role.

  299.  #299Starla on October 18, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Kim, Rori’s e-book is a great place to start and cheaper than the programs by a lot…and if you’re interested in a program, i bet you would really like modern siren and commitment blueprint

  300.  #300Starla on October 18, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Leaning back = no initiating. let him call u first, text you first, invite you out first, etc.

    and make your life full so it doesn’t matter to your core happiness if he does or doesn’t.

  301.  #301R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Well said Starla! 🙂

  302.  #302Starla on October 18, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    I just saw your post RN, right back at ya! hehe

  303.  #303Kim on October 18, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Thank you so much! I know I said this the other night but Oh I wish I would have found you guys a few months ago. My relationship might have been saved if so. I am just going to have to find time to read the Ebook. Is it too late now for me too? Or will it help me with the steps I need for him?

  304.  #304Kim on October 18, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Ebook ordered 🙂

  305.  #305R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    I have never read the e book but i heard it is great!!!

  306.  #306distressed on October 18, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    what should I do? when someone who used to be so caring just shuts down. e.g from 1x calls per day to no call for few days, or when I ask him to call then he call etc

    Do i interpret as he no longer likes/loves me or he is having his problem and needs space?

    thx for any help/insight

  307.  #307Kim on October 18, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    R.N. Then how did you get so smart on this?? 🙂

  308.  #308Kim on October 18, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    @301..I am having the same exact problem at the moment! Hope it works out for both of us! It is a horrible feeling but finding the help here has helped me so much.

  309.  #309R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    @302 Aww thanks but just being here I have learned soo much and personal experience still a work in progress.

  310.  #310distressed on October 18, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    @303 Kim: thx alot, hope it works out for u too

    how do you deal with it? do you ignore or ..? pretend to be ok?

  311.  #311R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    @301 It is not up to you to figure out what he is doing or thinking. What I have learned here is we can only control ourselves and our own feelings, not his. This is where you lean back and take care of you!! Easier said than done I know…but it works and sometimes it stinks I wont lie but you will feel happy taking care of you and loving yourself making a more accepting space for him or maybe someone better!!

  312.  #312distressed on October 18, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    @306: thx for your comments
    I have actually kept myself very busy, going out every night and meeting friends but still miss him

    and he only calls when I ask him to, and i dono if I should just walk away or how else to deal with it

  313.  #313R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    I mean I am happy, yet single and somehow manage to lose the one I fell in love with. It was a really sad story but not anymore. I am an amazing woman with so much to offer a man would be lucky to have a chance with me 🙂 So I am just taking care of me and my kids making space nice drama free space for a good man one day..lol

  314.  #314R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    @307 You dont have to walk away put him on your horse as Rori would say and just know he is alive and breathing and yes you may care or love him but this is your time to take care of your needs, love yourself, fill your voids so anyone showing up would just be a little icing on the cake 🙂

  315.  #315R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Sometimes well a lot of times I feel we all, men and woman, tend to take things for granted and we dont really realize what we have until we feel we are losing it. The masculine role is to step up and our role is to let a man court us and treat us like the women we deserve, no less. Love or Not, LOVE should never cause so much pain. Now learning and growing can be painful but learn to embrace your cards life deals to you. A much more enlightning experience.

  316.  #316R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Wow I read this stuff I wrote and it feels good because I am really believing in it and in me….love this blog and love helping if I can but I am and will always be a work in progress.

  317.  #317Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    RN. AmazingMe,

    My phone has been on the fritz (again) and I was unable to post for a few days, but I’ve still been following along. (It’s been HORRIBLE not being able to post!!! Aargh!)! I saw your news and just wanted to tell you, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

  318.  #318Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 9:34 pm


    Keep in mind that the point of CDing is to get free therapy. The guys who show up for you will bring up things for healing. Rori says to accept all dates – especially with guys you’re not attracted to, because it’s easier to practice the tools on them. Establishing boundaries (i.e. Letting them know that you prefer that they initiate and sticking to it) is a big part of that, as is practicing feeling messages and just making sure that your needs are being met in general. It’s really hard to do at first, but the prize is, as you develop the tools and learn to take care of yourself better and better, the quality of men you attract will improve as well.

    I’m not sure why I felt compelled to tell you that, as chances are you’re already aware of it, but there it is… *shrug*

  319.  #319Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 9:42 pm


    I am really struggling with myself the last couple of weeks. I’m feeling unworthy and insecure – and while logically, I know I’m good – more than good – I’m a catch, these feelings keep welling up in me. I hate feeling this way, but still I love that these feelings signify deeper healing for me. Tonight I was journaling and apologized to my heart for making it vulnerable in the past to men who aren’t worthy of us and for holding on to toxic men too long and asked it to trust me again and be open to love. It felt weird, but really healing. Sometimes my journaling turns into automatic writing of sorts – in fact it happens quite a bit lately.

    Thank you Creator for helpoing me to heal.

  320.  #320Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 9:55 pm


    Don’t pretend. The biggest, best part (in my opinion) about Rori’s tools is that they encourage complete authenticity. A guy will sense when you’re just pretending to be ok. Focus on your life, as it sounds like you have been, focus on your happiness with just being you, with or without the man, and be authentic. Most of us (women) have been stuffing our feelings, ignoring them, even thinking our feelings are wrong, but Rori encourages not only getting completely in touch with them, but expressing them. Consider how you’re feeling about this – really get in touch with your feelings around this, how do you feel about his not calling unless you ask. Then consider how you can communicate this to him in a non-blaming way (this is called a Feeling Message in Rori terminology). It might feel scary (in fact it’s still terrifying to me alot, especially when I’m emotionally involved with a man), but if you can then communicate that to him, you’ll be well on your way to a newfound and amazing way of communicating with a man. And, a way of communicating that draws a good man closer to you.

  321.  #321R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    Aww thanks SweetPea good to hear from u!!! How r u?

  322.  #322Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    So I’m sitting with all these mumble jumble, icky feelings, really sinking into them and feeling worry and concern that really, I guess really what I’m feeling is that I’m not worthy of love(?). Holy f8ck that feels scary to type, but really that’s at the core. Whew! My mouth feels dry now and it’s hard to swallow – literally. Although my being unlovable feels hard to swallow, as well. And feeling for sure this guy who’s the most open, straight-forward, ready, willing and able to commit of any guy I’ve ever been involved with will surely not call me. Feeling convinced that surely by now I’ve chased him off; won’t hear from him again and trying to convince myself that it doesn’t matter. I’m telling myself that there’s a better one out there if he’s not it and I DO believe that.

    I’m feeling ridiculous because I just talked to him on Sunday and yet my NVs are telling me he’s history, that he’s gonna start backing off now, just like they all do. And I’m dealing, I’m sinking into it, feeling it, feeling horrible, ridiculous, illogical, head-achey, and knowing in my heart that it’s NVs. That I’m ok and this is all painful growth – and it does feel painful. It almost hurts physically – my teeth hurt like I’ve been clenching my jaw. And I’m journaling and asking my heart to stay open, telling it we’ll be ok no matter what, asking it to give love a chance, and my phone rings. And I’m feeling so intensely what I’m doing that it actually scares me when it does. I jump and scribble all over the page. Lol!

    And it’s MM – the scary guy in question. And we have a really deep, feeling conversation and he asks me about having kids. He has four – I have none and I have no idea where he stands on this. I start feeling myself shutting down – I take a deep breath and tell him it’s still an option for me. Which is pretty non-committal, but the most honest answer I can give. I’d love to have a kid (or two) of mt own, but it may or may not happen at this point in my life. And turns out, he’s pretty open to it – surprisingly – as open as I am anyway. And he’s going to my friend’s memorial with me on Saturday. Which means so much to me. Never in my life has a man been there for me through something like that – the guy I’d dated for two years (at the time) never even went to my Grandma’s Memorial with me.

    Whew! Sorry for being long-winded, but I feel pretty special. For a change, I’m more scared of the NVs than I am of a guy actually stepping up. Believe me- this is progress for me! I’m not freakin out! I feel like dancing around and chanting “neener, neener”!

  323.  #323Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Hey RN AM – can I just call you Nurse?! I’m so excited for you!!!!

    I’m doing pretty well – experiencing some serious growing pains. Feeling thankful for this time to work on me, on accepting abundance, prosperity, love. Feeling good – scared half to death, but good!

    Thanks for asking! 😀

  324.  #324R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    @317 SweetPea that is awesome!! As you should be happy and excited to let go of any doubts or reservations and just be happy with him being there without all those NV’s in your head. You deserve that so jump and dance be free to express what it feels like to be cared for sincerely….awww yay i am happy for u 🙂

  325.  #325R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    It’s okay to be scared, I have learned that is the beauty of it all and the experience. Love like you have never been hurt….Take care of your feelings and let that man step up for you knowing you deserve that. 🙂 Yes u can call me nurse..lol

  326.  #326Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    OH! TTG was there for me the day my friend died. He’s disappeared now for the moment. And here’s the conundrum – chances are, TTG and MM will both be at the Memorial on Saturday. Deep breath. One stepping up, one not so much. One mature, responsible, reliable…one, not so much.

    I feel a little panicky thinking about that. Mainly because I’m not absolutely positive – in fact I’m pretty scared that TTG may try to cause trouble. Just depends on what kind of mood he’s in that day – it’s not likely because i know he cares about me and should be happy for me, but sometimes he acts like he’s still in high school. Phooey!

  327.  #327Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Nurse Amazing – I kinda like that. Thank you. It feels like huge progress. I keep feeling scared that I’m too wild for him, but apparently the dichotomy of my being a little wild and responsible are attractive to him. He told me tonight that it took him a long time – having gone from being in a band and being a wild child in the 80s to being married, a dad and completely responsible to figure out that he can be a little of both.

  328.  #328R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    He should be happy for you no need to cause trouble if he is upset your there with someone else then he should have stepped up and i am sure he knows this:)

  329.  #329R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    @322 a band, nice !! What kind of band?

  330.  #330Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Love like you’ve never been hurt… That’s something I’ve never been able to do thus far, but I feel hopeful of being able to pull it off in the future. I feel envious of people who can. I guess I should concentrate on flipping that and feeling happy for them. I do, actually. I just thought of my two friends who are recently married – they seem to love each other that way – and I feel happy for them! So happy for them!

  331.  #331Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    RN – I agree completely – he’s had more than one chance to step up. But that doesn’t mean…I just decided I’m not going to dwell on it thereby inviting trouble.

    The band: 80s hair band. Lol! He showed me a video of them last weekend. 🙂 They were actually pretty good.

  332.  #332R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    @326 lol..yes that is the best…love 80’s hair bands..haha….You ever hear dance like noone is watching? it a poem?

  333.  #333distressed on October 18, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    @315: sweetpea: thx for your suggestion i did try to talk to him but he responds sometimes or ignore at other times

  334.  #334Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    @ 327 – I think it is a poem. And yes, I loved it. I need to find it and read it again.

    80s hair bands are great. Seeing him rocking out on stage with hair halfway down his back was funny. I knew he’d had long hair but knowing it and seeing it are two different things – the flip side of the coin. Pretty adorable.

  335.  #335Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Feeling blessed

    Thank you Starla for making me something tasty and healthy for dinner

    Thank you for washing my clothes

    Thank you for setting aside clothes for tomorrow

    Thank you for the hot shower

    Thank you for making me a hair appointment

    Thank you for making me over this weekend:)

    Thank you for searching for a new sofa for me.

    Thank you for leaning back and recognizing that I need time for me, and for making me feel safe enough to do that.

  336.  #336Diana on October 18, 2011 at 11:11 pm


    I welcome all, new and old advice. I find that even when I’ve been told something, it always helps to be reminded and in addition I pick up something I didn’t catch the first time. I appreciate it!

  337.  #337Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm


    I hates it when guys drop off like that. Best thing I’ve ever done in a situation like that is to give them their space – and start CDing. Don’t put yourself on hold for it, because it never works if we’re waiting around for it, but if you take the focus off of him, place it squarely on you and give yourself the love you’d give to him, chances are good he’ll come back around. By then it won’t matter so much to you. The hard part is getting there.

    It may also be that he’s not gone anywhere at all, but if you continue directing your attention at him, most likely he will. I recommend getting Rori’s book – you can start reading it tonight. If you can’t do that right now, read up on some of her other posts. (You can find them to the right at the top of this page). Make yourself and taking care of you your priority and you’ll see things start turning around.

  338.  #338Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Yay Starla!!

    You got your clothes washed so now you can have time with CD1 again?!

    Heehee. I yike the sounds of him! (Sorry. I’ll try to be good). Yeay, yeah. You keep leaning back like a good little siren. Or a full blown Siren would be more like it!

  339.  #339R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    @332 So true, I never believed that you have to love yourself first stuff. On top of that I thought I did love myself but I was not putting my feelings first and was very blind when it came to love. Thank Goodness for Rori and all u sirens here!! XOXO

  340.  #340distressed on October 18, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Sweetpea, thx again for replying to me.

    I have not put my life on hold, I have followed this blog for a while. Just it is the emotions I need to find a way to release and deal with. LIke I cry or shed tears when reading/hearing anything love related, I am to this point very unhappy.

    I even asked him why he treated me this way from, tender loving care to totally out of touch. I just want things back to where they were…

    is it me ? sigh I no longer know and just find it very stressed

  341.  #341R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    You know a man I had fallen in love with and it doesnt just go away but I made a comment. I drunk dialed him and it was late and I just started sobbing big mistake! I said to him….GOSHHH what is it why can’t i just leave you be and just walk away?!!! He said because I make you feel safe, and he was right. So that is a big criteria for me that I didnt even know I had until recent!

  342.  #342alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:31 pm


  343.  #343alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    i found my dream sofa. and it is at macys. and i signed up for macys emails so i will know when they have sales or free shipping.

    thisclose. i am this close to my dream sofa.

  344.  #344Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Yesss clean clothes are the best:)

    I really need to do the dishes and clean the microwave so now i am making that my priority. we don’t have any plans to spend time together so i don’t feel bad or weird for making these little things my priority over forming last minute plans with him.

    CD1 is wonderful, and I appreciate him and myself as a blessing to him even more when I’ve taken all the time I need to take care of myself.

  345.  #345alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    nurse amazing. i like that nickname too.

  346.  #346R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    I love GLEE and so did he that was nice…ok…have to stop daydreaming…lol

  347.  #347Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    alias girl, i am on the endless search for a sofa. it’s driving me nuts at this point.

    may i pleeeease see this macy’s sofa?

  348.  #348Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:35 pm


    Thanks. Were you the one who asked about online profiles earlier? I feel way too vulnerable putting mine out there – but I think Evan Marc Katz has a book on it that you may be able to find at your local library. There might also be some information on his website.

    Other than that, you could check out the profiles of some women to get a feel for what to (or not to) do. In my profile, I just talk about my likes and dislikes mostly (i.e. “Nothing feels sexier to me than seeing a man in the kitchen 😀 ). I think there is also some information here.- try looking under the “dating” topic on the bar to the upper right here I think?

  349.  #349alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    haha come to find out the cd i called last night that said he would call me back and didnt…

    …he wasnt even the same guy i thought he was. i dont even know who he was!!!!! lol. his number was just on my list of numbers of cds to call back.

  350.  #350R.N. AmazingMe on October 18, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Thanks Alias Girl!! Sirens I am really lonely tonight! I mean I do not have to study I am probably going to be working anytime now. I spend great time with the kids!! I want a nice man 🙁

  351.  #351alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    342 nononononono. but i will help you find one. :)what are you looking for, do you know?

    also sometimes if you go in macys…the actual store…,sometimes they have clearance ones there that are less $$..

  352.  #352alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    i will show it to you once i get it!!!!!!!

  353.  #353Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    hehehe are you scared to jinx it? i’m going to go on the macy’s site and guess which one you’ve selected then:P

  354.  #354alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    345 (((((((nurse amazing))))))

  355.  #355alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    348 good luck-a-roo even if you guessed i would say nah.

    lol. why you trying to bite my couch?

    find your own dream sofa!!!

    anyway people i have shown it to dont even like it!!! lol. i do though. and they will to like it when they are in my place and there is no where else to sit!

  356.  #356Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    alias girl lol

  357.  #357Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Awww Nurse Amazing,

    You will have your nice (but not boring) man. Well, if you want not boring. I didn’t think God created such an animal, but apparently he did. Well, I didn’t think he created one besides my brother, I should say.

  358.  #358Starla on October 18, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    i’ve BEEN biting your style, that’s why i’m even looking for a new couch.

    i’m so glad you changed your name to have lol on it. it’s perfect. lolololol weeeeeeeeeee

    i’m going to bed. bye bye!

  359.  #359Sweetpea on October 18, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    I’m bowing out as well. This Siren needs her beauty sleep. Good night Sirens!

  360.  #360alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    nite starla. lol.

    ill help u find ur dream sofa. i would suggest taking trips into furniture stores and sitting on them. even if they are out of your price range because then at least you will know better what you want.

    some look pretty in a picture and are utter crap and wont even last.



  361.  #361alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    nite sweetpea!!

  362.  #362distressed on October 18, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    good nite you all sirens and sweet pea, thx again

  363.  #363alias girl lol on October 18, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    nite distressed! yikes. i dont feel good to say that name. anyway nite.

  364.  #364distressed on October 19, 2011 at 12:06 am

    @358 alias, sorry that is how i Felt… i am not going to bed but thought you all are .

  365.  #365R.N. AmazingMe on October 19, 2011 at 12:11 am

    GOODNIGHT SIRENS..sleeptight 🙂

  366.  #366alias girl lol on October 19, 2011 at 2:02 am

    nite nurse amazing!

  367.  #367alias girl lol on October 19, 2011 at 2:03 am

    359 distressed. i understand. it just pins me a little when i write it.

    you will start to feel better with roris tools. xoxo

  368.  #368sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 2:25 am

    That was a whole lot to catch up on lol this site just flies by ….Well I got a shock last night was texting my friend helping him thru his breakup bless him and he said I was lovely and easy to talk too awww that felt nice! Any way my phone makes a noise to show I have a text and it was Mr P saying Nite x and yes this is for you x I was stunned to say the least and just said Nite back :-)……..to be continued lol

  369.  #369Lyka on October 19, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Not posting because I am feeling unworthy. Just reading is enough for me atm, thanks.

  370.  #370Ella on October 19, 2011 at 4:24 am

    Well Sirens I am feeling very lonely and a little scared of life at the moment!

    MY favourite CDs have mainly gone quiet, although I am going to dinner with CD who I don’t like tonight, after a walk with CD who I feel very luke warm about…


    Its practice right.

    I feel a little vulnerable too bc I was tearful on the phone with CD1 last night when we were talking about my business problems… and I felt very much like the falling apart emotional women.

    However I felt very tearful!

    Its just me!!

    So if he doesn’t like it he knows what to do!!

    Regarding CD who I don’t like, I kinda want to drop him out of rotation, however he wants to cook for me and this dinner was already booked.

    I am dropping him bc of his dr8g use… Ie every weekend.

    I don’t want that.

    However he wants to cook me this dinner, its booked already, and it will help take my mind of other, preferable CDs who are not about atm…

    So there we go.

    Feeling hungry so going to make some lunch.

  371.  #371Ella on October 19, 2011 at 4:34 am

    And somehow, despite everyhing I am also feeling strong and valuable…


  372.  #372Daria on October 19, 2011 at 4:49 am

    I’m noticing my looking to go back into old ways.

    Which is not requiring dates.

    But rather planning fun stuff for me to do that involves guys at certain points of my journey. Which is not bad. It’s kinda fun to fit them – spontaneously seeming but actually involving lots of planning and flexible restructuring – magically in my day.

    But it cuts their effort and it doesn’t feel like dating.

    For example a guy asked if I was home in my town we could meet at the park and smoke.

    I got a thought of … Me going to catch the downtown bus by his house so it would feel cool to meet at the park by his house smoke w him and then go on my way.

    (tho for dates I like to have guys meet at the park by My
    house – and somehow I didn’t think thus guy would, in my imagination)

    I think my brothers who were ‘players’ fit girls in their day this way, tho even for them girls usually/often came to them.

    So what I would like now is formal dates

    If this was Romania I would not stop by a guys house on my way to the market. I would consider that a visit. And I would feel weird.

    I can do activities in the house and have my out the house plans and fit guys around that.

    The one part is they offer me goodies like smoking so I wind up thinking, well I Like smoking so yeah that could enhance my day.

    Or it could be food.

    And I still want formal dates from guys I’m interested in so I won’t take last minute ones.

    I can continue to visit my friends tho. If I start scheduling stuff this way it will be a total turnaround in the way I run my life.

    I used to get up and go and plan think up ideas on the fly.

    So now what.

    In romania it felt difficult to get myself to go out. I felt so cozy in the house and on my computer.

    Here it’s like going out would take precedence over anything. So if someone invites me out it’s like he’ll yeah, drop everything. Except the everything I’m doing doesn’t even feel like Anything. Like my typing on the computer right now.

    It feels unimportant, like I’m just filling time until the next ‘opportunity’ to go out.

    Hmm what a shift, all based on past patterns and habits.

    So I can choose now.

    Like in Romania if a guy asked me in an hour I’d be like no way. It would take super rush time for me and I’m feeling cozy. He might get away with asking me out for that night… But likely I’ll be imagining it and feeling full and like time flies and still see it as too much effort to be ready in 4 hours.

    I have food to cook and I want to watch my show and I’m teasing interesting stuff on the computer and that’s not even counting that I’d have to take a shower and choose clothes… Nah.

    Whole here I feel like tine is slow and I just fly around. I can be out the house in 15 minutes. Looking fabulous. Hmm.

    And everyday I wish it would line up that men ask me out in 15 min. And after that another one. And another.

    So now I’m going to switch it up in babysteps to not accepting those last minute dates that used to feel like lifesavers. Funsavers.

    Even tho my unhabited brain is like… Whasat?

    U mean ure gona tell the guy who wants to smoke w u at the park no but you can be free tomorrow if u set up a time?

    Are u nuts he’s Gina think ur snotty and crazy and he’ll never come meet u.

    And that’s good cuz he mite not be a step up guy then.

    I’ll just have to pretend im in Romania and I’m enjoying my time in the house immensely. And I might even start enjoying it!

    I’m afraid it will suck and maybe it won’t.

    Ok so in Romania I’d say oh it would feel nice to meet u, I’m free tomorrow.

    I would feel way overwhelmed – I wouldnt even seriously consider going out last minute. And even for that nightvi might already have a plan w a girlfriend. And I wouldn’t want to meet a guy the first time in the dark.

    What a different way of being! But it’s still all me! So weird!

    I can see how it might pull in different guys or how guys will behave differently.

    There’s an airy Fairy girl who’s adventurous. Always ‘looking’ – and that doesnt feel good – for fun.

    And there an at home cozy girl who u have to drag out. She has fun easily on her own w a book. Like more fun w the book than being out.

    So maybe both. I like being out, I like fresh air , I like smoking.

    And I like reading, and computering, and domestic stuff like cooking and washing and vacuuming and learning to cut up clothes and sew them. And drawing pictures and lighting candles.

    And I like being out on dates. And I like going ou nightlife dancing.

    Yay for choosing.

    I feel overwhelmed and I want to trust myself.

    Sooo I already told my guyfriend who is flirting w me ‘yes’ about him coming to say hi after he comes from the mall. Which really saying hi is ok yes. Even last min. Cuz I haven’t seen him in 3 years, and saying hi sounds like a 5 – 15 min activity.

    I also Called!!!! This guy who really likes me and who I was not in a great pattern with cuz I kept going to his house and he wouldn’t ask me on dates… Other than to his house. He’s kinda like a friend and when I saw his name in my phone I just called him to say Im back. Before I thought I wouldn’t call him, I thought he didn’t know I was gone and maybe he’ll just run into me in town.

    Well he said maybe finite when he gets in town or tomorrow well smoke to celebrate my return. Do now I feel scared ack – I can do it – to tell him I don’t want last minute casual meetings.

    I haven’t called hawkman and didn’t feel any pull to – I wasn’t calling hawkman before either.

    So now to shift my patterns… Babysteps.

  373.  #373sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 4:59 am

    Its okay not to be okay ,,,,heard this and it stuck, no pretence and healing feels like this you laugh, you feel the pain, you cry, you smile, you laugh ….But feeling all the above pain, sadness, happiness and disapointment is not scary its being ALIVE letting it flow through you and letting it flow out again. It feels so good to really feel and be in touch with those feelings in the moment and letting them go again and with each feeling comes new healing..I love not being NUMB I love feeling and being ALIVE..thank you Sirens for the help in my journey and Rori for helping become whole again..

  374.  #374Butterfly Wings on October 19, 2011 at 5:08 am

    Ella, I just wanted to tell you that I know exactly how you’re feeling about the business stuff and potentially having to get a job.

    I also want to tell you that I admire you for your commitment and your passion which comes through in your posts, and even though you may be experiencing a glitch right now, I really do think you’re destined to succeed. Hang in there. You will get through this!

    This has happened to me – TWICE! Both times I went back to work where I used to work, so to say it was humiliating was an understatement (I felt like a total failure), but the money they offered me helped the pain a little…. argh!

    Even now, I’m in a job that’s ok and pays extremely well, but I sooo want to be doing my own thing like you are! But I know my work situation is just a glitch and soon I’ll be back to doing my own thing on a full time basis too. These things just take time, commitment and perseverance!

  375.  #375Butterfly Wings on October 19, 2011 at 5:10 am

    198 Tinque – Yep I know I need to learn to open my heart and keep it open. It was closed for many years while I was married to Mr Verbally & Emotionally Abusive man, so this is really just about me stepping out of my comfort zone – which is a good thing! I can do this!!! :))

  376.  #376English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:20 am

    #327 Nurse AM and #329 Sweetpea

    “Dance like no one is watching, love like you’ll never be hurt, sing like no one is listening, and live like it’s heaven on earth.” by William Purkey

    (and many other variations if you google)

  377.  #377English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:21 am

    #363 sammie

    Wow looks like you are leaning right back. 🙂

  378.  #378sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:22 am

    #370 your story sounds like mine its scary to open your heart at first but once you do even if you get hurt again you dont want to close it 🙂 EW that is my new motto lol

  379.  #379English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:24 am

    #364 Lyka

    EVERYBODY who posts here is as worthy as any other person. If you have done something un-Sireny, well it doesn’t matter, I am sure we have all done that, it’s baby steps remember…………..I know I am soooo much better at it than I used to be but I do slip at times, it’s hard to break old habits…….

    Take care and be kind and gentle to yourself OK? Be your own mum or best friend. x

  380.  #380sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:25 am

    #372 I know wow its amazing how this blog really does turn your life around..it feels amazing!

  381.  #381Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 5:27 am

    @343: Sweetpea says:
    “…I think Evan Marc Katz has a book on it that you may be able to find at your local library. There might also be some information on his website…”

    Yes, and it’s very good. You will learn not to use adjectives in your profiles and instead tell descriptive stories.

    About nine months ago I posted a few excerpts and profile examples and described the “alternate method.” I borrowed the book from the library. Thanks for the reminder… to borrow it again!


  382.  #382English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:28 am

    #373 sammi

    What is your new motto? Are you in work at lunch and at your computer like me. 😀

  383.  #383Butterfly Wings on October 19, 2011 at 5:29 am

    Looks like ex coworker has convinced me to meet him for a drink again after work tomorrow.

    I’ve hardly seen/heard from TH the last few days, and I’m feeling REALLY good despite that, although I do miss him a little.

    He’s trying to lose weight, so has been exercising a bit after work rather than coming here like he was doing, so we’ve had some brief chats online after that, but not much has been said.

    He invited me over earlier and when I got there I realised I left my oven on (!) so I had to leave straight away! I told him I wasn’t coming back, so we’ve been chatting on and off tonight.

    TH inspired me to start exercising again too. I’m one of those people that everyone says is “skinny”, but they don’t realise that I’m wearing clothes that flatter me and don’t show off every bump and bulge! So my mission is to remove bulges so I don’t have to hide them! So I don’t need to lose weight – I need to lose FAT! And yes, even “skinny” people have fat! 😉

    I worked out this morning and OMG I feel soooo good! So much energy! Why wasn’t I doing this before??? lol

    Hmm.. what else. Oh! Mr Octopus invited me to go down the coast for a weekend, all expenses paid (uh yeah, we know what he’s gonna try!). I said no because it’s also 3 days before my birthday, and my daughter (who was born on my birthday) is sure to force me to take her shopping… 😛

    Oh and finally I went to the doctor today to get a prescription for a new pill. The one I was using was giving me migraines every time I moved onto the sugar pills. It was getting ridiculous – and that’s why I had yesterday off work. Anyway, they give me this new one (which cost me a FORTUNE!), that not only prevents pregnancy, but it clears the skin and removes tummy bloating! YEAH!!!! 😀 I’ll be keeping an eye on that one!

  384.  #384Daria on October 19, 2011 at 5:31 am

    Ok so about that quote. I find dancing more thrilling and my body feels energized when men Are watching.

    It’s like the energy in their eyes goes right in my pelvis and feels like flowing hear I can get my body loose and flowy with.

    for me it’s dance like all men are watching, sing like all are feeling moved, love like I am made of love.

  385.  #385Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 5:32 am

    It’s raining and I’m going out for shopping. LOL I couldn’t resist; I know where the good stuff is and transactions are only available until 10:00 a.m. Going now…

    Yippee! Manifestations are underway! Sweetie says “Get a move on, honeybee.”

    Also wondering if I’m still “in disappearance?”

    Let’s see… 😛

  386.  #386English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:38 am

    #380 SLV

    I see both you and Sweetie. 😀

    I love the endearment “honeybee” – he has such a way with words. 🙂

  387.  #387sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:40 am

    Dance like no one is watching, love like you’ll never be hurt, sing like no one is listening, and live like it’s heaven on earth.” by William Purkey

    hehe yeah EW I’m on lunch thought Id sneak a peak 🙂

  388.  #388sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:43 am

    #378 you go Siren! Mr Octopus haha!

  389.  #389Kim on October 19, 2011 at 5:43 am

    How am I doing it? Well every night I go to bed with a pit in my stomach and every morning I wake up sick to my stomach. It has been horrible!! I am confused! I want him so badly to call me and say ” Let’s go to lunch” “meet me after work” Honestly, right now I would take anything from him. I have a date with somone else Saturday (old boyfriend) but I really don’t want to go. I know that I will be thinking about him the entire time. I just have to figure a way to be okay again. I love the saying ” there was a time that I didn’t know you and I didn’t miss you then at all” I need to find me again. It’s hard when I love him though.

  390.  #390sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:45 am

    #379 I like that too 🙂

  391.  #391sammie sighs on October 19, 2011 at 5:48 am

    #305 Kim (((hugs))) Ive been there you don’t have to stop loving them just love yourself more put the energy there your doing great..it’s the hardest thing to do but you will get there like all Sirens say babysteps..

  392.  #392English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:50 am

    #379 Daria

    Love it, thank you, especially LOVE LIKE I AM MADE OF LOVE. 🙂

    #382 Sammi

    Me too, it’s the only way I can keep up with the blog LOL!!

    OK its back to work for me……….

  393.  #393English Woman on October 19, 2011 at 5:54 am

    #305 Kim

    You might find the post Rori does about putting the man on the back of your horse (no closure) of value, sorry I don’t have time to find it as I have to get back to work, but if you scroll to the left of this page you will find all the blogs and leader posts by Rori. And like Sammi says, you don’t have to stop loving anybody just love yourself more, remember it’s not about “him” it’s all about you, you are the prize not him………ME, ME, ME. 😀

  394.  #395Ella on October 19, 2011 at 6:04 am

    I’m realising I am ok.

    I don’t care if he never calls again!

    I will be ok.

    F8ck him… and him and him, and him….


    In the most open hearted way of course.

    He he.

    I’m too busy doing fabulous stuff to worry about 1 silly man!

    I like feeling like this.

    Don’t even care about J anymore.



  395.  #396T-Girl on October 19, 2011 at 6:30 am

    I think I am having a hard time trying to find the correct balance of leaning back while in a relationship. I get home from work later then he does and our normal routine is I call him when I get home from work. My head is questioning if this is OK that I am the one to always be calling?

  396.  #397Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 6:32 am

    @381: English Woman

    Yes, he does. I’m shopping online and now might take a look at POF. It’s funny that whenever I go over there I find the same bunch of guys that were there last year.

    LOL Also, can’t figure out why my posts disappeared yesterday. It was really strange. I sent a post to you but nothing at all controversial.

    You mentioned before about a”thrift shops?” (disappearing posts weren’t about this) and second-hand shops. You are right about that. Second-hand shops aren’t automatically called “thrift shops” but a lot of them have that in the store name and often are second-hand merchandise stores.

    However some thrift shops often have new merchandise, especially things like factory outlet stores and some times there are food products companies that have “thrift shops” also, such as bakery goods that are half price, etc etc

    What things are called in different places is interesting. It varies in different states here too. We also have “rummage sales” given by churches and other organizations,,, that’s kind of an old-fashioned term. I think maybe they were called “jumble sales” in the UK. Now people do things like “clothing swaps” too. I’m going to one in a few weeks.

    Women always find a way to “shop” don’t we? LOL


  397.  #398Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 6:41 am


    An ambitious woman is an unforgettable woman.

    Men love a woman who sees what she wants, make a plan to get it, and then TAKES it.

    Whether it is that big promotion at work or that guy that you just HAVE to have, showing him that you know what you want puts you in higher esteem in his eyes.

    But knowing what you want is only half the battle. Going after it is the other half.

    You have to show him that not only do you have a plan, but you are WORKING the plan!

    Men love a woman who is willing to go the extra mile to get what she wants.

    It shows that she is ambitious and driven, but it also shows that she can stare down failure and not be afraid of it.

    That is a very important trait to have. A woman who is unafraid of failure is a woman who will get up after the fight, brush off that hot business suit, and
    jump back into the ring.

    That’s SPUNK. Men love a woman who has a little spunk!


    I have often said that men want to have total control of their lives. That’s absolutely true.

    But they also want a woman who can stand up to them!

    If he does something you don’t like, stand your ground. Make your feelings clear. Tell him exactly what you think.

    He might be taken aback by this. He might even pick a fight with you.

    But that simply means he is testing you – he wants to make sure you’re the real deal.

    Show him that backbone, and you’ve got his attention!


    Nothing will turn a man off faster than a nagging woman.

    You know it’s true. How many times have you seen your girlfriends nag at their boyfriends about something, and the next thing you know, they have
    broken up?

    How many times have you seen a man cringe and try to get away when a woman starts to cry in his presence?

    Men hate emotional outbursts. They hate arguments that lead to nowhere.

    If you want to keep his attention, keep your cool. Especially when you argue!

    If you can stay cool, calm and collected during an argument, he will have new respect for you, and that respect will make you even more valuable to him.

    It also gives you the upper hand in any battle – and that’s something that men admire, even if they don’t say they do.

    Tips from an email.

  398.  #399Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 6:43 am

    T-Girl you can choose to change the routine. It will leave him wondering what happened. Meaning his mind will be thinking about you. You also never know, he might be bored with the routine.

  399.  #400T-Girl on October 19, 2011 at 6:48 am

    I think that is what I am afraid of – if I change the routine he will wonder what happened. I will think he thinks I am upset or something.

  400.  #401Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 6:48 am

    People who felt controlled by their communities left for freedom, but the cost was often loneliness and resulting illness. It seems to me that the key to a long and happy life is to learn to take responsibility for ourselves, and then form communities of other responsible and caring individuals who have no need to control others.


  401.  #402Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 6:53 am


    Being feminine does not imply weakness – it simply means enjoy being a woman!

    Let him be the man he was designed to be.

    Allow him the joy of the chase!

    Don’t be so quick to pour out your most intimate feelings without making him earn the opportunity to hear them.

    Men like to work for what they perceive as valuable.

    If you hand over your body and emotions easily
    then you lose value in his eyes

    Johnathan Aslay

  402.  #403Mel on October 19, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Re: 393

    I get that from men a lot! They love that I know what I want and that I am ambitious and driven. I have also been told that I am spunky and have a zest for life. Nice to hear that those qualities are admired by men. 🙂 Yay me!

  403.  #404Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 6:58 am

    @389: English Woman
    #384 Kim

    Rori’s “no closure” post is very helpful. It applies in many situations and it’s one of my favorites.

    Here’s another one that is useful. It’s a little more playful and similar to putting man on horse. It’s metaphor but when I was feeling a little naughty I actually put a little ziplock bag in purse with a photo and couple of other things in it. I carried it around with me for a while. It might make your CDs more fun.

    LOL. Helpful for keeping things in perspective.

    Here’s the post ==>

    Rori Raye:
    “Is Your Man Just A ‘Snack’?”

    November 2010 @ 7:19am

  404.  #405Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 7:03 am

    T-Girl you can choose to make the fear small, like a tiny ant and just do it. The thing that is counterintuitive and what we don’t normally choose is the thing that works most of the times. You can be so busy too that you forget to call at the scheduled time.

  405.  #406T-Girl on October 19, 2011 at 7:08 am

    I am also realizing that I really dont know how to be in a committed relationship without being married. Not that I know if I want to get married again but I was married for 20 years before to my first real boyfriend. This is all new to me.

  406.  #407Starla on October 19, 2011 at 7:10 am

    T girl – you could force yourself to be busy for tonight to make it a little more palatable. Like instead of going straight home from work, go to the mall…let yourself be busy until you’re getting ready for bed.

    just take it one hour or day at a time:) worry about his reactions down the line later.

  407.  #408Mel on October 19, 2011 at 7:18 am

    399: SLV

    I loved that post! Hadn’t read it before and it was awesome!

  408.  #409Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 7:18 am

    T-Girl that is a good recommendation from Starla. I have heard Pat Allen say doing those things can move you from your masculine to your feminine side. I also would check in with myself if it is that I am wanting to be married and trying to hide away the feelings around the fear.

  409.  #410Ariadne on October 19, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Hi, Sirens!
    I know a few of you out there are relationship coaches…I have a BS..Social Work….and would like to know if any of you have done on-line accredited courses for coaching. Googled them…there are so many! Can anyone refer me to a good source for this? It would be much appreciated. Love to you all on the Island. Xo A

  410.  #411T-Girl on October 19, 2011 at 7:24 am

    Thank you Starla and FW for the great suggestions

  411.  #412Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 7:32 am

    @403: Mel



  412.  #413Mel on October 19, 2011 at 7:40 am

    Ok… here it is! I think I figured something out…

    I’m feeling guilty.

    Architect is VERY much into me, is stepping up completely, wants to spend every bit of his free time with me, always pays for dinner, offers to help me with stuff, tells me things like “seeing you made my day” and is always telling me how attractive I am.

    But I feel guilty. The icky feeling in my tummy is guilt. Not because I don’t think I deserve it… because I do, but because I don’t feel the same way. And I don’t know IF I ever will. I feel guilty because it feels like I might be leading him on. I don’t know what to do about this.

    This has got to have happened to some of you sirens before. One of your CDs is enamored, but you’re not feeling it. At which point do you call it quits? Should I still give it more time? Rori is always saying that feelings morph. How long should I give it? I don’t want to hurt him or lead him on.

    What do you think?

  413.  #414Mel on October 19, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Sexysarcastic was very much a snack. An extremely tasty snack…my favorite snack, even. But a snack nonetheless.

  414.  #415Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 7:57 am

    @409: Mel says:
    “Sexysarcastic was very much a snack. An extremely tasty snack…my favorite snack, even. But a snack nonetheless.”

    Tasty is good. Keep in the snack bag maybe he’ll grow into a gourmet meal as Rori mentions. Don’t throw him out!

    “Doggie bag?” 😆


  415.  #416elle_emm on October 19, 2011 at 7:57 am

    mel, i have the same ‘problem’ right now…a guy is really stepping up and it makes me feel weird. i just don’t feel attracted to him. at all.

  416.  #417Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:04 am

    elle_emm, does it make you feel a little sick to your stomach even?

  417.  #418Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:06 am

    410… I’d keep him as a snack, but he’s vanished… at least for now. Maybe the store will stock my favorite snack again soon though!

  418.  #419Senior Lady Vibe on October 19, 2011 at 8:07 am


    I wouldn’t feel guilty if a man treated me well. Unless I was flirting to the point of teasing or being dishonest about my feelings I would not be “leading him on.” I simply would be “not ready to be involved” and I would sincerely express that. It would be up to the man decide whether or not to pursue me, seek further dates, or whatever…

    That’s for me. Especially during early dates. If there had been a year of the guy fawning over me… that might be different and time to have a little talk or even say goodbye for a while or forever.

    I believe Rori advises at least six dates unless there is repulsion. Maybe the other sirens have more input.


  419.  #420Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:19 am

    And I still can’t get over how this was the guy that didn’t even want to meet me because he said he didn’t find my pic “attractive.” A weird turn of events had us meet in person and he seems to be trying to make up for his faux-pas immensely!

    The ironic thing is that in-person, I’m the one who’s not feeling terribly attracted. LOL

  420.  #421Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Also in the Interview with Rori and John Gonzaga of eHarmony they say experience has shown that women almost never feel chemistry with their real man. There always seems to be a false chemistry for some guy who will never step up which veils the chemistry for the right one who is willing and can do the job of relationship. Rori says all of her relationship coach friends have the same experience and Gonzaga reinforces it. They encourage women to give the guy we are not attracted to a chance because true attraction does not happen so easily. It takes time to develop it with a man as he helps us to feel safe. Mel I would bring the focus back to me to see if I am hiding some fear of intimacy somewhere why I am trying to push architect away. As Gay Hendricks put it, you might have reached the highest level of your thermostat tolerance for intimacy and need to make a new commitment. Men do what they want to do regardless of what we say. If you tell him to go away he will not if he feels he has a chance. So no need to feel guilt. I know of guys who will ask girls if their marriage is working out and indicate that they are waiting just in case. My cousin has a friend whose beloved went and married another man. He hooked up with a girlfriend for a while and as soon as his beloved separated from her marriage he dropped the girl like a hot brick and went and married the first girl he was pining for. The one he dropped was one of the most beautiful girls I have met and she was always like a cat – leaning back and absorbing all the attention coming towards her. I don’t know how their private relationship was but one thing I know, I used to wonder if he wasn’t bored with her.

    Long story short men will do what they want to do, including stealing you from another without any guilt.

  421.  #422Susan on October 19, 2011 at 8:34 am

    RE: 408: Mel says:

    “I’m feeling guilty.

    Architect is VERY much into me, is stepping up completely, wants to spend every bit of his free time with me, always pays for dinner, offers to help me with stuff, tells me things like “seeing you made my day” and is always telling me how attractive I am.

    But I feel guilty… because it feels like I might be leading him on. I don’t know what to do about this.”

    **Yes, this happened to me over a year ago… before Sweet Man reconnected with me. I spent over a year with a man who adored me and I just wasn’t feeling it for him. Just as you have stated, my overwhelming feeling in regards to him was guilt. He would have married me in a heartbeat and I didn’t love him. A year later, I still feel guilty, but there is nothing I can do about that.

  422.  #423Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Mel as I said before he might have been afraid of his own emotions why he made the bad comment. Also are the emotions that the comment raised up stuck in your cells? Did you experience it as criticism that you might have experienced in your past? I really feel there is a reason for the lack of attraction that is about you and need to be explored.

  423.  #424Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Also guys treat women well because it makes him feel good and masculine.

  424.  #425Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Thanks FW!

    Because he’s ridiculously into me! … I won’t get into it here, but I have this “crazy” (but attainable) dream involving my bees and a really cool business idea. He’s already spoken of wanting to help design/finance my building (as an architect)… to make my dream a reality.

    It just feels too soon for me. How could he possibly know what he wants that far into the future, relationship-wise. Perhaps that’s what feels icky. He’s not pushy, but is very intense. I’ve definitely reached the max on my thermostat for now… Not really sure how to adjust the settings though. 😉

  425.  #426Camille on October 19, 2011 at 8:40 am

    I dont know if this will help but the man Im with right now……..in the beginning dating stages ….I had no physical attraction for him…..and apparently (he told me in the future) He didnt have an intense chemical attraction for me. I honestly thought we would be nothing more than friends and I couldnt imagine ever going to bed with him……but as we spent more time together he became quite sexy to me, in ways that had nothing to do with his physical appearance and then after a time I began noticing and becoming attracted to some things physically ……….attributes that werent my normal “turn on”…..for instance I love a guy with a nice but! He did not have a nice but but his thighs are strong and muscular…..I hadnt noticed thighs before…..Im very attracted to his strong arms now……..I never noticed arms previously……I noticed how lovely his blue eyes were but I had always thought I preferred dark eyes and dark hair……He has neither……hes blonde and blue eyed….

    The whole thing was strange for me…….others told me he was good looking……I couldnt see it at first because he didnt fit my “rules” of great looking.

    At any rate, because he was kind and generous and we enjoyed each other so much the sexual attraction grew when I least expected it.

    Then after we became intimate I found him very attractive sexually because he was so incredibly skilled! LOL

    Just some info……..dont know if it will help. But I definitely can relate to your experience…….

    but he never repulsed me…..even when we were dating but I had no “chemistry” to the point of pitter patter or oooh I could just eat him up. Know what I mean?

  426.  #427Camille on October 19, 2011 at 8:44 am

    RE 420

    One of the things I love about “T” is he wants to help me fulfill my dreams and I absolutely adore him for helping me finance and design my soon to be built “art studio”………..We talked of it during dating, he talked of helping me make my dreams come true very early on…….I felt a little “weirded out by it all”……but it means so much to me now.

  427.  #428Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:46 am

    And yes… the comment could have left a lasting impression on me. It’s because I don’t want to be with someone that is hyper-critical. I don’t know about the rest of you, but while I know I’m pretty, I definitely don’t look that way just getting out of bed in the morning. And sometimes, I like to go without makeup and stay in my sweats all day and read. I want a guy that isn’t going to “lose his attraction” if I’m not always perfect. A guy that appreciates that women are REAL. I don’t want to be with a man I may feel self-conscious around.

    I have been trying to “test” this with architect a little. Sometimes not straightening my hair for a date, sometimes dressing a little more casual, I may test out wearing glasses next time. LOL

  428.  #429Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Thanks Camille!

    I’m not repulsed! LOL. I enjoy his company, but he feels more like a brother or friend. 🙂

  429.  #430Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Mel according to Gay Hendricks you change the setting by making a heartfelt commitment that you can feel in every cell of your body. You focus your attention on saying it. I have experimented with it and can say it has worked for me. I actually consciously stop myself from sabotaging myself at times when I was not conscious of what I was doing in the past. I recollect instances since childhood of doing things to sabotage myself, just that I did not know what I was doing. I can remember even telling guys I wanted to seem them angry so I would do something to elicit that.

  430.  #431Camille on October 19, 2011 at 8:53 am

    T and I both said initially we would probably end up as best friends forever.. LOL

    It felt very “just a great friend” for me in the beginning. I even asked questions about other men that I was dating and he gave me “man perspective advice”……..

    My grandmother always said…….
    “Marry someone who can be your best friend so during the times your not so attracted you have your best friend there. The chemistry will come and go.

    I have found that she is absolutely correct.

  431.  #432Camille on October 19, 2011 at 8:54 am

    It may or may not become something more……but I wouldnt shut the door just yet……..Dont feel guilty he wouldnt be there if he didnt want to be.

  432.  #433Sweetpea on October 19, 2011 at 8:54 am


    I keep getting the feeling that there is something deeper going on with your feelings around Architect. When I read your posts, it reminds me of when I’ve dated perfectly good guys but just wasn’t ready for a real relationship. Then later, I’d ask myself, “what was the problem with him?” Answer: “I wasn’t ready for it.” So, I like what SLV said about telling him you’re not ready to be involved and let him choose what to do with it. I remember a situation where I had to keep reminding myself that so long as I’m being completely honest and open with a man, his feelings, thoughts and what he does with them are not of my business. I think that was with TTG actually and I ended up falling for him.

    Also, it feels weird to me everytime you mention him saying he wasn’t “that attracted.” I’m not sure how to explain the feeling…maybe feels like resentment emanating around it.

    Just my thoughts around this – I wouldn’t mention them but I am a bit intuitive and wonder if it might help you in some way? If I’m off-base or you disagree, just disregard. I’m not a controlling type person and won’t be offended at all if you tell me to go “pee up a rope,” so to speak.


  433.  #434Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Thanks for the advice Camille and FW!

  434.  #435Mel on October 19, 2011 at 8:59 am


    My thoughts on the attraction thing are in post #423. I guess I’m just feeling cautious around that. I would say cautious more than resentful.

    Also, I agree, it may be true that I am not quite “ready.” Right now I’m looking for a fun relationship, not really a serious one. Not that it couldn’t BECOME serious, it’s just not what I want right now. Thansk for the perspective! 🙂

  435.  #436Camille on October 19, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Just one more quick note on my experience…..

    At the same time I was dating T and some other men.

    One particularly “lit my fire” he was hot and pushed all my chemistry buttons. He didnt treat me well but I excused it because I was so attracted to him…….anyway in the end he didnt step up and he actually treated me like crap in the end.

    I actually cried on “T”‘s shoulder about it LOL!

    Just sayin…….

  436.  #437Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Mel try pony tail with just lipgloss. Many guys find it sexy. Maybe go for a jog with him in sweats so you can dress that way.

    Regarding criticism Gay says it was something he discussed with his wife and they made a commitment to eliminate blame and criticism in their relationship.

    Mel I would experiment with bringing this up with him. Let him know I felt criticised by the comment and it played upon my fear of being with a hypercritical man. Ask if he is open to committing to eliminate any criticism between you. This will be an experiment to see what you can create. I might even share with him how I am feeling like he is a brother rather than a romanctic interest. It might engage his winning trigger to step up even more but might be worth it.

  437.  #438Sweetpea on October 19, 2011 at 9:05 am


    Haha! I see in the time it took me to type that post on my phone, FW & Camille took care of what I was wwanting to say.

    Thanks FW for the information on raising love tolerance – something I’m in dire need of at the moment. I feel so blessed by your presence here and you timely posting of helpful information. Thanks again.

  438.  #439Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Mel also about the fun relationship/fling, maybe that is not what SexySarcastic is looking for? I like what Sweetpea says about resentment

  439.  #440Mel on October 19, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Ooh! I wanna go to the rock-climbing gym! I should mention that and then I can wear the lip-gloss/no makeup look.

    Does it seem weird that I’m “testing” him in this way? LOL

    On one of our dates, he helped me with the bees, it was raining and I just let my hair get all wet and frizzy and didn’t do a thing about it… so far he’s still around! LOL

  440.  #441Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:11 am

    You are most welcome Sweetpea. I feel inspired to share information because I feel so intrigued by relationships and the nuances involved in them.

  441.  #442Mel on October 19, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I don’t want a fling. I just don’t want to be thinking about marriage just yet. I want to take my time.

    The truth is I don’t know what sexysarcastic is looking for… I thought things were progressing at a slow but steady pace. Oh well!

  442.  #443Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Mel the dishelved (also sweat and lipgloss) look makes us look “human”. I understand from Bob Grant that guys find it attractive. I have heard of surveys where guys say they find their women most attractive after working out, smelling sweaty etc. Apparently it increases pheremone excretion. I believe I saw that in one of those popular magazines.

  443.  #444Sweetpea on October 19, 2011 at 9:16 am

    @364 Lyka,

    I remember when you stated you thought your advice wasn’t relevant or “good enough.” Honestly, I felt puzzled about it at the time. I didn’t see any huge faux pas and the truth of the matter is, the beauty of baby-steps is that not all of us are in the place of perfectly using the tools all the time. It’s a growth process and if your advice isn’t execution of the tools to perfection at the moment, it’s still relevant to those who haven’t quite reached the point of perfect execution yet.

    Hell, I still lean forward at times and I’m ok with it. And if I see a Siren who’s driving herself batty to the point I used to, to the point where I felt better leaning forward, then I might encourage her to just try it.

    I hope you find healing around this, Beautiful Siren. I’ve missed your voice around here.

  444.  #445Ariadne on October 19, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Me too Lyka! I felt sad when I read your comment. Love to You…Siren. xo

  445.  #446Mel on October 19, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Me three! Come baaaaaaack Lyka!

  446.  #447Mel on October 19, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Also, I’m missing some sirens. I enjoy interacting with so many of you, and thankfully many stick-around. Perhaps some have changed names and I’m clueless… but I miss Boomer and Kaitlyn. Glad to see Turquoise comes back periodically though! I’d love to add you to my FB Turquoise… to stay in touch! 🙂

  447.  #448Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Me four! I felt shocked when I saw that comment Lyka but was not sure what it referred to so I felt “unqualified” to respond. Now that I see Sweetpea’s comment I vaguely remember and from what I remember it might even have included a misunderstanding. My learning moment from this is that we really do hold emotions in our cells and live in the past most of the times. That does not help any of us and only prevents all of us from shining.

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.” Marianne Williamson

  448.  #449Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I really really miss Boomer too.

  449.  #450Camille on October 19, 2011 at 9:39 am

    FW…..that is beautiful…..loved it!

    I love Marianne Williamson her books have helped me immensely

  450.  #451Tiffany on October 19, 2011 at 10:06 am

    So much good new stuff on the blog today! And so good to see so many of you back here! 🙂

    I woke up this morning thinking about this: is it possible for me to love people, or do I only love “things”? Do I love what people give me and do for me – not the person? Do I love the “things” that happen in relationship – regardless of who the person is? Do I want a “relationship” as a thing and not as a dynamic space between two people that continually grows and changes? ….

    I like what someone was saying about friendship and relationship. I’ve heard that, too. In fact, I think a lot of guys actually like to start as “friends” before becoming “serious” with a woman. a) because they are probably afraid of getting hurt and rejected just as much as we are. and b) because it gives them a chance to get to know her in a low-pressure setting.

    Of course, “friends” doesn’t feel like what we want, if what we want is to be married to someone. but I think for a lot of guys, that’s actually a way “in.”

    That’s why I left the door open to be “friends” with TDH. And anyway, that’s what it felt like we were already. Just didn’t want to be FWB. I hope I did the right thing. I didn’t clarify that I didn’t want to have sex if we were “dating” but I didn’t want to leave a big, long message.

    Overall, I feel pretty calm about it. Had one moment of “Oh crap, what did I do?” right after I called, but now I’ve settled into a feeling of calm. I actually feel more “powerful,” but not in a controlling way. And I feel more free to focus on myself. Yay!

  451.  #452Tiffany on October 19, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Kim –

    About leaning back. All the sirens here gave awesome answers. Rori also has something she teaches called the “dance position.”

    It basically involves putting one of your feet behind the other, and literally leaning back. If you are sitting down, you can just lean back into the chair or couch. You can do this when you are alone, thinking about your man, or you can do it in his presence.

    Either way, it works to get the feeling of “leaning back” into your body. It shifts your energy so that he comes toward you – and you let him – without “doing” anything specific to “make” this happen. i.e. you are not leaning forward to grab him, or chasing after him. You are not asking him to come toward you. You are simply being in an inviting position.

    The focusing on yourself, not calling, etc., is all based on this, because we are metaphorically leaning back into our lives, to give him the space to come in.

    Does that make sense?


  452.  #453Ella on October 19, 2011 at 10:21 am

    @ FW


    Oh, oww feels scary to me!

    This is what I have spent the last year unlearning.

    How not to pretend and how to be authentic.

    And Rori says that means being sad when I am sad, even crying if I feel tearful, and being angry when I am angry.

    The not nagging part I agree with totally.

    The part about not having emotional outbursts goes against what Rori advises…

    For me I am trying I can have emotional outbursts (inner drama qgueen) however w/o blaming the man.

    It even gives him a chance to step up and fix it for me.

    Having said this I still always feel vulnerable when I am emotional in front of a man, esp negative emotions like sadness, desperation, angry or whatever…

    Oh I feel very insecure around this topic right now cus I was negative, tearful and emotional on the phone with CD1 last night… not about him, just about my situation with my businesses, but I did allow myself to cry and that felt scary, like dang he is so going to back off after this, and I can feel he has backed off a bit.

    However its ok. Cus I was just being real.

    If he can’t handle me he’s not for me. I can handle me and my emtotions. I am a Siren. I can feel my emotions.

    I feel so vulnerable being open hearted though.

    What do other Sirens think about this?

  453.  #454Starla on October 19, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I miss Gina:(

  454.  #455Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 10:28 am

    From Rori’s No Closure post

    The simple truth is – if you stop FIGHTING your feelings for him and pull toward him, and thoughts about him – and simply REFOCUS your mind, body and heart around something NEW – something that FEELS GOOD – something that’s MEANINGFUL to you – it will overpower the energy you’re showering on this undeserving man.

    So – instead of rituals and symbolic acts to LET GO of him (because then it’s STILL all about HIM…) what we need here is rituals and symbolic acts to hang onto, hold onto, embrace, worship and adore OURSELVES.

    The result we’re going for is not to free HIM – but to free US.

    Can you imagine what that would look like and feel like?

    What would it look like and feel like to feel free as a bird around your thoughts and feelings about a man? To be able to do what makes you happy even though thoughts of him and about him continue to intrude?

    I guarantee you that if you find things to immerse yourself in – things that capture your attention in a wonderful, fulfilling and satisfying way…they will way outshine any man’s old, worn-out pull on you. Your light will expose the shabbiness of the man, the obsolescence of him.

    You’ll start to feel this: “Done.”

    It’s not about “over.” It’s not about “forgetting.” It’s not about “Letting Go” so you “don’t” have a mental, physical or emotional experience around him when he isn’t actually there. It’s about just getting so passionate about yourself and what you love in life that you become bored by him.

    Most of the time, a man who is not good for us came into our lives for one reason: We invited him in as a “do-over.”

    It could be a do-over of our childhoods, when the only way we could get love and attention was by working our butts off.

    It could be a do-over of a trauma where we felt helpless to take care of ourselves.

    It could be a do-over of a mistake that feels desperately like it needs “closure” and “mastery.”

    Forget about all that.

    Instead – focus on being kind to yourself. Focus on what you like. On what makes you feel good. Do that. Think that. Take yourself there.

    Erika talks a lot about EFT – Emotional Freedom Technique, and I love the technique too – here’s one little piece of it I’m going to apply to this post:

    Say to yourself: “Even though I feel attached to this man and drawn to have closure with him, I deeply and profoundly love and accept myself.”

  455.  #456Femininewoman on October 19, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Ella I don’t consider keeping emotional control being inauthentic or pretending. I have read Rori’s Carnival or Festival of Feelings and it suggested we can have a roller coaster of feelings and choosing not to do anything about them. I have also heard/read her saying that we don’t have to spill our feelings all over a man. I understand her teaching us to be in the present moment, touching things, getting in touch with our feelings and noticing them. I don’t see where she says to always share our emotions. She teaches to share to heal/open your heart and to experiment with speaking up for yourself. I also see her teaching that we have choices, such as choosing to walk away. There are other ways to honor our feelings, open our hearts aside from sharing them with a man.

  456.  #457Esteemed on October 19, 2011 at 10:36 am


    RE: #273 – You said, “I don’t care about hurting his feelings anymore, I just care about honouring mine!”

    I am glad what I said was of use to you. What you said was of use to me, too, especially the sentence above that I copied. I am too concerned about K’s feelings still. The other thing holding me back from ending it is my emotional neediness, which has always gotten me in trouble. I shut it down for about 4 days, and then Tuesday, I took his call. He went from saying, “I don’t love you and cherish you anymore” to talking about sex with me in the same conversation.

    I said, “Like I told you once before: sex starts in the kitchen. I feel all shut down the way you were talking to me earlier.”

    He backed off a little. But I’m kicking myself half for opening it up again. Why? Why do I want him in my life? I feel frustrated at myself. I don’t want to kick myself for anything or anyone. I don’t want that phrase to be in my vocabulary anymore. Goodbye, kicking myself.

    You were my self-talk for so many decades, but I don’t need you anymore. I am going to love myself for taking his call, because in reaching out to someone who is chaotic, I am showing my real need for love.

    I love you, Esteemed. I love you and embrace you deep inside. From now on, when you cave in to pressure from a man, even tho I’d rather you not, I am going to hug your heart. I am going to cuddle with you and allow you to hug a pillow and cry.

  457.  #458Esteemed on October 19, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I allow you to feel, self.

    “We lose a piece of our souls by teaching ourselves how not to feel.” ~ Randy Stonehill

  458.  #459Ella on October 19, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Sweetpea re 317,

    You exactly desribed what is happening with me right now…

    I’m feeling all that icky stuff and the NVs around both my main CDs right now…

    Sinking… and teeling heart it doesn’t matter either way… but it feels painful, and I feel tight in my chest and across my shoulders.

    And I am on my knees and can’t really breath properly.

    Sounds dramatic and I am ok.


  459.  #460Esteemed on October 19, 2011 at 10:46 am


    RE: #451 – Like! “Discretion is the better part of valor.”

    I love that quote! So often I have to do a quick internal check and stop myself before I blurt something out, especially at work.

    Ah, another good saying: “It is better to remain silent and let people think you’re a fool than to open your mouth and erase all doubt.” 😆

  460.  #461Esteemed on October 19, 2011 at 10:54 am


    RE: #454 – Is stating that you sound all dramatic a way of shutting down your feelings, or feeling ashamed of having intense feelings?

    One time about 20 years ago, I didn’t get a letter for yet another day from the man I loved, and I screamed right at the mailbox! I ran back to my house and cried and cried. A couple of hours later, a cop came to the door when only my Mom was home. He asked if everyone was okay. He said a neighbor heard someone scream and saw them running and reported it!

    My Mom knew nothing about what I had done. She just told him everyone was fine. Later she asked me about it and I told her. At the time I was embarrassed. But the more I think about it, the more I feel sad about the extent to which society teaches us that it is not okay to express deep emotion.

    That is why I find this blog so healthy. Rori doesn’t put the clamps on us. She encourages us to let our squeaky voice out! She doesn’t delete our comments if we say something that isn’t kosher. She really understands. I have found so much healing simply thru seeing my thoughts and feelings in black and white on this blog!

    Another thing I am enjoying again, after 2 years of living without sound privacy, is talking out loud to myself and talking to God out loud! I find it so therapeutic, to really help me get in touch with my inner self. No more stuffing it down with cheesecake and peanut butter pie! Let it out! Let’s fall to our knees and vampire scream!

    Love, Esteemed

  461.  #462Starla on October 19, 2011 at 11:03 am

    What am I going to do to keep focusing on myself?

    -All my dishes tonight
    -Fold all my clothes
    -Organize my closet
    -Watch my fav TV show
    -Create a new meal plan
    -Shop for furniture
    -Paint my nails

    Also, tomorrow when he picks me up from dance class, I am committing to myself that I won’t let him into my apartment. I gotta get to sleep at a decent hour, and he ends up staying until at least 10 or 11.

  462.  #463Sweetpea on Octo