What Exactly Makes Him – or You – Toxic — Part 2 of the Toxic Relationship Series

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manbrokenheartSo – what exactly does “Toxic” mean? If we can use it to describe HIM, who’s doing bad and weird things, and also to describe YOU – who are, by the way, lovely – how does that work?

We’re working here with Terry’s story, so this is Part 2 of the series. In short, Terry is hung up on a married man who has an abusive wife and a new baby.  A while back, he was ready to leave his wife for her, but now can’t find the will to do that, and is withdrawing. Terry is berating herself for causing him to withdraw because of her “clingy-ness,” and we’re trying to look at the reality of this situation and explore all the aspects of it, so we can use her extreme situation to help ourselves in all our unique situations.

I’m talking directly to Terry, and then expanding out to all of us:

First, Terry – by being with a man who is married – what does that make you?  What are you participating in?  Does that feel good?  No.  It can’t. Participating in even an “emotional affair (without sex) would make you a participant in a “cheating” experience that involves lying – or at least small untruths.

And those small untruths kill us.

They kill our spirit.

So – let’s just say – if we’re THERE, with a “toxic” man, in a “toxic EXPERIENCE (like this one), then you are being “toxic” to YOU.  To yourself.  You are beating yourself up – using him as the hammer.

That makes him just as toxic as his abusive wife – because he’s THERE…and in order to have a baby with her, he must have had sex with her – an abusive woman….

So – he is toxic for tolerating abuse, and then he’s handing abuse to YOU, which you are tolerating.  Sounds pretty toxic to me, what do you think? And, yes, I’m asking you to use your mental, masculine brain energy to look at this…we’ve got to start there – with you getting on board mentally with a whole new INTENTION around your love life and what you want and what you deserve – and what a “soulmate” looks and feels like.

No matter WHAT he’s said, or HOW you feel (I want you to feel what you feel, I love all your feelings, and you feel connected to him ..so that part’s FINE), or what you believe you’ve figured out about this – plain and simple – He’s not available, he’s with another woman, he’s responsible for a small child.

Common sense tells you to drop this man like a hot potato.  Common sense tells you he CANNOT be your soulmate – or he would be AVAILABLE to you!

Soulmates as star-crossed lovers is a lovely dramatic theme that’s dogged us women forever – but does it do you any good?  NO!   It’s your past, your trauma reactions, all the things we need to help you transform that are selling you on this man.

Every time you even THINK about him, you’re digging yourself in deeper.

We want to pull you OUT of this pit.  We need your help.  We need you to set an Intention.  “Getting this particular man” is not an intention worth pursuing under ANY circumstances – it is a wayward folly borne from your subconscious – and you are SO MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN THAT!!!

So here are some more questions:

What happened to Terry’s common sense here – or is she just simply seeing and experiencing something we aren’t?  What is this “perspective” we get when we see what we want to see instead of what the rest of us see and call “reality”? (Even though what we choose to see is awful and ugly, it’s so often preferable to reality.  At least we’re USED to THAT kind of awful and ugly.)

Let’s talk also about this “soulmate” thing.  Can a man who’s not available and very toxic be your soulmate?  Can you square this by saying “the timing’s not right”? Can he be “fixed” by your love?  Is that the dream, here – that you will “fix” him with your love and then you can be the soulmates you truly are?  Where did we get this? (And I’m as much a sucker for this as anyone…you can tell by the romance novel I wrote called “The Dream Man” – oh, remind me, I keep meaning to make that available to you all for fun….)

The difference is in not KNOWING what’s fantasy and what’s reality, because – who knows anything, after all? – but in making the decision, based on what feels good, about what reality is and isn’t. ( I suppose that’s a whole other post there.)

So – what reality do YOU choose?

Let’s work through these questions (I’ll reply to your comments and get new ideas for posts) – and then I’ll move on to the next big triggering thing from Terry’s comment.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Daria on December 8, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    ok fine ill try this “question thing” ive noticed in the past posts tho i feel annoyed by (resistant to?) it…

    What happened to Terry’s common sense here – or is she just simply seeing and experiencing something we aren’t?

    My guess is she is feeling lonely, she feels so drawn and comforted by this man, and it feels like home to her (i know this feeling with a man). She IS Experiencing something we’re not, the feel good part of being around him, the ENERGY she feels around him.

    What is this “perspective” we get when we see what we want to see instead of what the rest of us see and call “reality”? (Even though what we choose to see is awful and ugly, it’s so often preferable to reality. At least we’re USED to THAT kind of awful and ugly.)

    This perspective is a combination of feeling desperate and our minds presenting us with what we DO want, and us trying to get from our desperate feelings and “im not going to have what i want belief” and so accepting the feel good energy from him and adding some Heavy Duty thinking and imagining and “mental editing” on our part to believe that we are living the dream now at least a part of it

    Let’s talk also about this “soulmate” thing. Can a man who’s not available and very toxic be your soulmate?

    Yes. (I thnk i was supposed to say no). But not at that moment.

    Can you square this by saying “the timing’s not right”?

    Yes, I guess thats kinda what i said but not quite. “The timing’s not right sounds like it will never happen.” It oculd happen i suppose if i let go completely of control and stop trying to make it happen right at that moment.

    Can he be “fixed” by your love?

    YES. (I think I was supposed to say no). Yes he can but only if I direct love towards myself with strong boundaries, while continuing to be warm and open towards him and all men.

    Is that the dream, here – that you will “fix” him with your love and then you can be the soulmates you truly are?

    yes yes yes. This IS the dream i guess. I want to “tame” a wild man, a man that didnt want any other woman, but will want me. I guess these can be separate but they come together. The story of the curandera who healed her man and then he fell in love with her.

    Where did we get this? (And I’m as much a sucker for this as anyone…you can tell by the romance novel I wrote called “The Dream Man” – oh, remind me, I keep meaning to make that available to you all for fun….)

    did we get it from stories? from movies.. from our cellular memories? I don’t know where we got it. We got it from our desire to mesh with a man and touch his heart. From wanting to be appreciated for our love beauty and healing that radiates around us. Because we do heal and so we expect this to happen….. but holding onto it desperately with both hands is not How it happens, only a shadow image. This is what happens when our love focuses on us and then radiates around us….

  2.  #2Daria on December 8, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    I choose the reality that I am a Goddess and the man I wll mary is healed by my aura without my having to do anything except focus on loving myself.

    I choose that the Lefkoe belief reorganzing i did comes back into feeling and leaves me at a new empowered normal.

    I choose that the belief that energies are stuck in my body deepens rather than limits my experience and that I can release these energies spontaneously, consciously, and also automatically when doing other things, and I don’t need to do only Nethertonian processing with the one healer.

    I choose that I naturally and drawnedly hehe stretch my body and mind and shake loose beliefs and energies and “scenes” I don’t want like waterdroplets froma spider’s web.

  3.  #3Jennifer on December 8, 2009 at 5:04 pm


    This feels good. To identify ourselves as toxic when we allow ourselves to be in toxic relationships.
    It takes away the victim mentality and puts the power squarely with ourselves.
    So then bad relationships are not “things that happened to me and I have no choices” they are “Stuff that I allowed to happen and I can CHOOSE differently”

    This is where we let our brains guard our hearts.
    The reality of life is that our lives are a result of a series of decisions we have made if we want better lives we need to make different decisions.

    This was true when I was working with addicts and it’s true today.

    Girl power

  4.  #4Jennifer on December 8, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    GIRL POWER!!!!!

  5.  #5Mary on December 8, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    wow daria, are you ever a thinker! i have new respect for your ability to articulate some very abstract things! have to go now but i’ll be back later to look closer.

  6.  #6Mary on December 8, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    okay, i’ll just say one thing before i go. you know how when you have an addiction – like caffeine, or alcohol or whatever – it comes to you in the form that like? so if you like starbucks coffee, you’re not going to think about diet cokes when you’re craving caffeine. well, if you get that “man” feeling, wouldn’t it come to you in the same way? in the form that you like? in the image of the person that you received those good feelings from, once upon a time? (my daughter used to say one uponse a time), even if that person is very toxic? because your mind is trained to go along that pathway? is that how those “i’m home” feelings are developed? little peptides of “i’ve been here before and once it felt good?” a little off the track, and i can’t wait to read more of what rori said… LATER

  7.  #7Melanie on December 8, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Daria, I agree with Mary — you have really hit the nail on the head with so many of your words, and eloquently too! So much so, that it hurts. Hurts because it is the truth. So much of what we feel from a man feels good sometimes, that it’s hard to accept that there are major things missing. A couple years ago my therapist and I were discussing my hanging on to a man who seemed perfect for me in SO many REAL ways, but for whatever reason he moved on. I listed to her all the ways he was perfect for me, and I said, “All those traits are exactly what I need in a man!” and she completely agreed. Then she pointed out a couple negative traits he displayed (primarily self-centeredness). I responded, “But… but…but…” and was lost for what I was feeling, but she knew: she said, “But you can’t accept that those two sets of traits exist in the same man.” “YES!” I said, “that’s exactly it!” It was a powerful moment for me. A hard truth. That so many wonderful qualities could co-exist with a couple “toxic” qualities. It just isn’t supposed to be like that!!! BUT IT IS. IT IS. And that’s what I hear you saying, Daria. That’s why it is so hard to let go, so painful, because it feels like we are SO CLOSE to having what we want and need… but we are really lightyears away when we are in those situations, we just don’t want to see it. It feels like home, it feels SO much like home that it just HAS to be home, it has to be. But it isn’t. 🙁 It’s an illusion, a dream.

  8.  #8Jennifer on December 8, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Agree Agree Agree
    So close with B and yet so far.
    And again this is where we can let our brains protect our hearts.
    Brain KNOWS what is good and what isn’t. Heart would hold on through all the pain just for the slim hope of a second or two more joy
    Reality is that no person is any one shade of colour. We all have alot of shades. Some of them fantastic…some not.
    And that applies to us too…not just the men.
    We need to learn to love our nastiness and look for men with less nasty than love.

  9.  #9Daria on December 8, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    I want a friend to do EFT sessions for each other for free!

  10.  #10Linda on December 8, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    Well said Jennifer.

    Since we are all trying to learn to honor and love ourselves as the basis of having the relationship we want, then we have to do it. Be protective of our beauty. My new learned truth is… People will treat you the way you let them. Taking responsibility for the things I invite and tolerate in my life is the key.



  11.  #11Tina on December 8, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    I was reading and I felt confused about the part where Terry feels her clinginess is causing her “married man” to withdraw.

  12.  #12Tina on December 8, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    I feel at the very least HAPPY that her married man is withdrawing, for her own good. I feel like shaking Terry out of this unromantic story, she at least will have herself and us to thank when it’s all said and done, he and his wife will have to deal with the rest, I feel there is hope for Terry 🙂

  13.  #13Tina on December 8, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    The only way she is connected to him is to beat herself up, in a romantic way…

  14.  #14Rori Raye on December 8, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    Oooooh, Mary – I LOVE this…The little “peptides” of “I’m home.” I’m going to research this and write about it, and credit you….Love, Rori

  15.  #15DejaVu on December 8, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    For all of you who can find the time to read….Marianne Williamson “A Woman’s Worth”. Actually has a chapter called: Embracing the Goddess…….

  16.  #16Rori Raye on December 8, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Daria – your answers are truly valuable, so thanks for going with this. I think we’re just taught that love is hard. And the harder it is, the more valuable it is. The handsomer he is, the happier you’ll be. I think we all worked really, really hard to get the unconditional love we needed as children – and hardly any of us ever got that, and the search goes on….Love, Rori

  17.  #17Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    The empty hole in the middle of my soul craves to be filled.
    With anything.
    Anything is better than nothing.

  18.  #18Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    For now I’ll forget how painful it feels to use rocks instead of sand to fill the hole.
    I’ll choose to believe that one day the rocks will become sand.
    Anything’s possible.

  19.  #19Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    I’ve only ever had rocks to fill the hole anyway.
    How do I know that sand is better than rocks?
    Maybe I don’t even like sand.
    Rocks are better than sand.

  20.  #20Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    Rock by rock, I fill the hole in my soul so deep and so heavy that I pretend the hole is NOT EVEN THERE.

    But the hole never gets filled. And now I have all these rocks. They’re so heavy and the hole is so deep. It’s just easier to leave the rocks for now. Surely a man will come along and lift those rocks out for me. Yeah, I’ll just wait for a knight in shining armor to save me.

    And so the fairy tale began…

  21.  #21Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    I feel cynical and resistant to the posts lately. I feel happy with what is going on with my life. It feels good to be a part of this community of amazing women, but I want a safe place to celebrate my successes. I feel like a jerk when I post something that feels exciting to me in the midst of all of these deep posts.

    Rori: Is there a place we could post stuff like that? Would you want it to be separate from the normal posts? I feel concerned that my posts come off as glib.

  22.  #22Simply Shannon on December 8, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    I don’t want to feel resistant to posting. I want to feel supportive and show compassion but dang, I want to share my successes too. So here’s my story…

    I met a man tonight who told me at the beginning of dinner that he was running late for our date because he couldn’t find his bank card and could only find his emergency credit card. He then told me I would need to pay for my own meal because he wasn’t sure how much was on the card. At first I said “ok, that’s fine”. It was so automatic that I didn’t even have time to formulate a feeling before the words came shooting out of my mouth. But I knew in my heart that if I paid, i would feel completely closed off to this man. So I unzippered my heart, took a deep breath and said “no, it doesn’t feel good to pay for a date. It feels unromantic. Is there anything else we can do?” And then I shut my mouth.

    He offered for us to share an appetizer.

    I did it Sirens. I looked this man in the face and basically said “no”. I felt so proud of myself. That may seem small to anyone reading this but it felt HUGE to me.

    And after that, I had a great time! He was already asking me out again and promising something fancy to make up for his snafu.

    In the “ok, that’s fine” scenario, I would have had a great time but I would have been writing that man off before we even got to the first course. Ya know?

    In the “no” scenario, I opened myself up to the possibilities and he opened up to me. It felt good to do what felt right for me in that moment.

    One HUGE “little” step. Shannon

  23.  #23Melanie on December 8, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Wow, Shannon, that IS huge. I feel happy and proud for you, and very excited! I feel grateful for the good example you set for us! I feel glad that you posted your story here, even in the midst of the “deep” stuff — it feels like real life, everything jumbled up together, the good feelings, the bad feelings, the confusing ones, the celebratory ones. Thank you. <3

  24.  #24Daria on December 8, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    Shannon … trigger!

    I feel EXCITED and powerful in a lil mean way to post my good feeling stuff hehee

    but i will do it

    my voice is important!

    yes !

    Im glad youre posting successes… I WANT SUCCESSES!!! YEAH

  25.  #25Daria on December 8, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Yay shannon. yayyy.

    Ok heres something good i did:

    I think i did a great job at Toastmasters. I was General Evaluator. I Felt very loud (in a good way) and projecting. I made a joke.

    One lady pulled me aside and said I was very charming.


    I now realize I AM VERY CHARMING.


    yes i am

    also I EFTd. yay. on the way htere while driving… about feeling disapointed that my Lefkoe after feelings hadn’t lasted


    I shifted my energy.. .or “it” shifted halfway thru Toastmasters.

    ok whats good is, I got a BIG GLIMPSE of what I would feel like and think liek once my feelings and thoughts DO SHIFT. So what if they went back. I don’t feel so powerless (mayber it did work some). If i want something I will get it. So i will get the powerful feeling.

    I WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK MEN IN THE EYE FOR 5 seconds and smile, and not feel terrified that they think im hitting on them, and if I AM Hitting on them, then I still will be able to do it, same with women, I will be able to do it without feeling i am weird or being afraid i am scaring them or provoking them to attack me

    I tried with men lately and realized how I just get so SCARED.

    I Will heal this yay!!

    its getting more crispy clear

    oh yes

    I would also like to be able to go to bars by myself without feeling like a weirdo

    I could do this when traveling but in my own area i feel embarassed

  26.  #26Nikita on December 8, 2009 at 11:47 pm


    I love your happy posts!!!! I look forward to them….and learn a lot.


  27.  #27Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 12:05 am

    Terry feels fear…….that’s why…..fear of not finding something better and as cozy……..let go of fear…..embrace faith……surely the universe can offer more than this…….sweeter,sexier,better…….for SURE

  28.  #28Mary on December 9, 2009 at 2:16 am

    shannon, i have been thinking non-stop about that kiss you experienced the other day. non-stop. and I even posted something about it, but it had so many xo’s in the post that it didn’t get posted!

    rori, i want to read DREAM MAN!

    daria, your posts are crispy clear but a lil mean in your very charming and powerful way!

    shannon, wow. what you did tonight! you were BRILLIANT! that happened to me, but i just said yes and ordered the salmon. you let him know that you wanted it to be romantic, and then you said “what can WE do about it!” and he probably felt like he was on top of the world! and you didn’t give in! I love that so much…

  29.  #29Tracy on December 9, 2009 at 2:55 am

    It feels really great learning so much….

    Shannon!that’s a great baby step!yay….
    I have a few days off and i feel good just relaxing and reading spiritual books…it feels very relaxing..i also feel good learning and inquiring more about myself…it feels really insightful…
    I am a rock star and i want to discover my Goddess self!
    baby steps!

  30.  #30Tracy on December 9, 2009 at 3:29 am

    I love what rori said about Love seeming like something we have to work so hard to get.even when i fantasize about a dream relationship, i can’t help putting a hardship inside it so it can feel real..It feels interesting how i have a perceptive about love that encourages pain.
    I am amazed by all these.

  31.  #31Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 4:49 am

    ok Sirens…
    totally off topic and WARNING there will swearing
    Rotten miserable arrogant self serving douche bag!!!!!!!!!!

    B has wasted my time. I want to punch him in the face. I want to kick him in the balls.
    I am soooo sick of excuses.
    I feel like the window I gave him to show me he wanted me is closed!!!! FUCK YOU WE’RE CLOSED!!!!!!
    He is coming back to town on the 12th. He said he wanted to get here as fast as he could when his leave started.
    I felt a little bit excited that maybe he wanted to see me right away.
    No…..h’e s going to the city with his buddy. So they want to get an early start from his parent’s house.
    For a month the window has been open. I told him that I would let him show me what he wanted.
    and BOY did he.
    What he wants is to only focus on himself.
    What he doesn’t want is to put any effort into showing me that he wants me back.
    I feel such rage.
    I feel like kicking and screaming
    I feel crazy
    I feel like punching and scratching

    And the excuses.
    GAWD the excused. I swear if I hear one more excuse from this man I’m going to either throw up or punch him out and I don’t know which.
    He made plans to go to the city with a friend instead of spending time to see me because he wasn’t sure if I wanted to see him….. he hasn’t done anything to show me that he wants to be back because he’s so far away.
    Despite the fact that one of the things I said he needed to do was add me on facebook.
    I’m gonna puke.
    I feel so angry at him and myself for allowing this that I could just throw up.

  32.  #32Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 5:00 am

    and….for our next trick
    one of the guys that I was interested in on Eharmony just closed the communication.
    It says he’s pursuing another relationship right now…and I guess that’s fair.
    But I feel dissapointed.
    I feel like B is out with his buddy ( who is the most friendly out going guy I know) just cruising the ladies. And I’m online getting rejected. I know it;s not a competition but it feels like I’m losing anyway.

  33.  #33Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 5:30 am

    I don’t add anyone I date to my FB…..that’s MY FB-
    private….i don’t want him looking at my friends….MY FB-PRIVATE………..

    I feel happy my crush didn’t ask me…….yuck…….I’d probably feel silly….deleting….then adding….and deleting…..that is for my friends….not my lovers….I ain’t your virtual bitch……stop crashing my page!!!!!!

    I feel weird

  34.  #34Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 5:33 am

    I do feel supportive of Jennifer……would you like me to help you get back on your horse?…..or maybe a nap?…….back on the horse later?

  35.  #35Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 5:51 am

    hey Nikita.
    The FB thing.
    If we had just been dating…I could see it. We were together for 6 years. We lived together for two of those years and during all that time he hid stuff from me on the computer. Porn and god knows what else.
    He won’t even add his sister to his FB. Which makes me feel suspicious. And quite frankly breaks her heart.
    This is a woman who is just begging for a way to be part of his life and he won’t add her to his FB because he “doesn’t agree with her lifestyle”. Lifestyle being that the house is a pig sty and her and her husband are constantly broke and borrowing money from their parents. No slack for her on the fact that she has TWO special needs kids and has a degree of delay herself.

    As for the horse….I wouldn’t dare go anywhere near the poor creatures right now….I’m just a big toxic soup of rage and blame and hurt and loss and feeling loserish and nasty and vindictive and rotten.
    I would prolly scare the poor things.
    Maybe not a nap.Maybe a hot bath.

  36.  #36Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:04 am


    I won’t add my mum on FB…..I feel resentful when family asks……..It’s MY FB!!!!!!!

    I empathize with the 6 year thing but……..I’ve known my mum longer…..and I ain’t lettin her in!

  37.  #37Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:10 am

    and she tried to bully me, guilt me…..it didn’t work 😉

    MY FB MYFB MYFB MYFB MYFB MYFB it proves nothing!!!!


    sorry I’m out of cigs-actin crazy…..


    and what’s feels funny to me is I don’t even like it…..I sign in once a month-but IT IS MINE!!!!!!!!!!! PRIVATE !!!!


    besides i don’t get dates there…….so …….i don’t even talk to those friends…..i feel cranky when i hear add me!!!!! uh? why? we live together? wtf?????? it’s not even real!!!!!! MYFB!

  38.  #38Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:15 am






  39.  #39Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:23 am

    our problems go way deeper than FB! WHAT I’M GONNA CHECK THE FRIENDS BOX AND NOW WE ARE FRIENDS???





    CUZ THAT DON’T FEEL REAL TO ME!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WANT TO BE MY FRIEND?,…………THEN ACT LIKE MY MUTHERFUCKIN FRIEND……….and maybe I’ll think about……it……..no I won’t -it’s mine…..and I don’t want people to know……….so there….the less they know , the BETTER ……and that makes me feel nice, safe, and cozy 😉


  40.  #40Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 6:37 am

    um nikita?
    In the interests of clarifying…..are you directing those comments about FB to ME? or just ranting?

  41.  #41Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:41 am

    Ranting……I felt triggered…..I have been nursing rage towards facebook……for months……..and I don’t have cigarettes…..and I’m addicted to them……and my mother threw a fit when I didn’t accept her friend request….i ignored it…….and got angrier….it feels silly……BUT REAL.

    they were not directed at Jennifer…..

  42.  #42Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:47 am

    and I just had a fight with my roommate…..I am soooooo over his girly ass……..has any one noticed…my posts are “less feely” compared to before???? I notice…..and this is the danger of a FEMININE MAN…..HE WHINES…….AND IS ALWAYS ASKING ME STUPID QUESTIONS–LIKE “WHAT’S WRONG?”



  43.  #43Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 6:50 am

    ok…that’s ok
    It actually triggered me. how you are feeling might be a good indication of how B feels about it.
    Which I already knew but I feel like he set up this distrust in me by insisting on hiding things from me on the net. For the whole relationship.
    I used to feel like I was just being jealous and over reacting but then I realized that I have NEVER been a jealous person. Up until I met B. He has worked very hard to earn my distrust. He should not be surprised now that he has it.
    That added to the fact that he gave me an indication that he wanted to “try to fix things” and then does none of the thing I need to make me feel comfortable.
    So I basically feel like….”yeah I get where yer coming from …but it’s your own damed fault so deal with it or fuck off.”

    Thanks Nikita. 😉

  44.  #44Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:50 am



  45.  #45Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 6:53 am

    your welcome Jen 🙂

    If I may call you Jen?

    I guess,

    I’ll be heading to the deli for my stupid vice now 🙁

  46.  #46gina on December 9, 2009 at 6:54 am

    off-topic (I haven’t sunk my teeth into this post yet). just wanted to report that I had an incredible time with a masculine man last night. Oh thank the universe!! he lives IN my neighborhood. We went to a local jazz spot that johnny and i visited a couple of times. The performer was the same performer that Johnny invited me to drive an hour to see, on the date when i let him know that I don’t like driving to men, and he had said that if the performer was in my town, he would’ve driven to me. And, as it turns out, the performer does his thing EVERY Tuesday in my neighborhood, and Johnny knew that because he used to live in my neighborhood. So, just saying that the universe gave me even more insight into why I initially felt like rejecting johnny on a gut level and why it’s no skin off my back that it’s DONE. he didn’t feel very good a LONG time ago. but i didn’t believe that I could really do better…until last night. I love how this new guy, G, was leaning towards me, practically wrapping himself around me. I felt safe, secure, relaxed, sexy, beautiful, radiant, happy. It felt very different from when I was there with Johnny, and his attention was mostly on the band, and all I got was his lousy hand on my thigh. G was focused on me, and wanted to talk and connect. there were a couple of moments when I felt sad or concerned or whatever, and he gave a gentle little stroke to the side of my head, and my heart fluttered. like there was a direct connection from his and to my heart. I love that we are talking about the kind of relationship we want. we both come from intact families and don’t want a divorce ever. i love that the communication feels open and aimed at a deeper connection. oooh it felt good.

  47.  #47Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 7:00 am

    oooh oooh Gina!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! 🙂




  48.  #48Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 7:02 am


    Does “G” stand for GODDESS LOVER???? 😉 mmmm????

  49.  #49Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 7:03 am

    Do share more!! please…I suddenly feel more feminine living vicariously through you….

  50.  #50Rachel on December 9, 2009 at 7:36 am

    Gina… what a great experience you had. This is the way it SHOULD be! And when you get a taste of being treated well, it makes the other guys look so weak and self-centered. A real man finds joy in making a woman feel special. A “fake” man uses the woman to make himself special.

    Shannon… please tell the good stuff!!! Here!!! It keeps me going to read the breakthroughs. Sometimes it feels like I’ll never stop making the mistakes… so it’s exciting when someone has a victory. i feel like it’s OUR victory! “If she can do it, I can do it.”

    Have a blessed day all!

  51.  #51gina on December 9, 2009 at 8:01 am

    okay…more about our victory. he’s a head executive at a HUGE fortune 500 company. he’s big into “the secret” and is amazed at the prosperity he has attracted he considering buying a condo downtown AND a home in nearby really nice suburbs. He travels a lot for work and wants to be able to bring his “significant other.” He’s trying to carve time out in his busy schedule for a significant other. He pointed out an old couple on the dance floor last night, and he kept commenting on how nice and cute they were together. point is…I feel secure and good and like I’m with A PROVIDER. and he said that’s what he’s had in mind – he’s been thinking in terms of being able to have abundance for himself and 4 or 5 other people. my heart was buzzing the whole time. he felt strong (not in a tightens-his-muscles-every-time-i touch-his-arm kind of way (johnny!!), in a way that made me feel like i could be super soft. and he’s super eager about the next meeting, and he’s taking care of all of it. This feels weird to say, but I feel like I’m getting the masculine security I feel from my dad, PLUS the romantic charge. feelin good.

  52.  #52Jennifer on December 9, 2009 at 8:14 am

    nikita….you sure can call me Jen…all my friends do 😉

    SOOO EXCITING!!!!!!!!!
    I can’t wait to hear more!!!
    It give me hope that they are all not selfish, self centered douche bags.

    you go girl!

  53.  #53Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 8:17 am

    AWWWWW Gina!!!!….

    I feel self-satisfied…auntie nikita knew my Gina would attract winners 🙂

    Just as soon as we got rid of that body of DEAD weight 😉


    awww….I feel cruel…………..

    hehehe,….naw, I feel HAPPY AND PROUD!!!!!!

    and psychic 😉

  54.  #54Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 8:24 am

    One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman’s emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax”.
    David Deida

    aaw sigh* thx tinque

  55.  #55Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 8:26 am

    You need to feel your man’s trustable presence before you will open your heart and body without guard. It’s a step-by-step process of learning. He learns to be more present, you learn to be more open.”
    –From “Finding God Through Sex,” a book by David Deida

    Masculine anger is always because you are feeling constrained, trapped by life. Feminine anger is always because you are feeling unloved.”
    David Deida

    “Men who have lived significant lives are men who never waited: not for money, security, ease, or women.” David Deida


    just sharing 😉

  56.  #56Rachel on December 9, 2009 at 8:31 am

    Wow… I love that Nikita! That is what I’m experiencing in my new relationship. My old guy hated when I would cry or be emotional. He would get irritated or try to “tease” me out of it. This one (I’ve only cried once with him so far) kissed my tears and stroked my hair. It felt SO GOOD!!

  57.  #57tinque on December 9, 2009 at 9:13 am

    It seems to me that part of the point of Terry’s story goes deeper. Rori mentioned it in the first post, and this may or may not be Terry’s issue, but it has been for me, and I know I’m not alone here.
    Babies are born as love. That’s it. Since there are only two emotions, love and fear, the fear is learned.
    If a baby is born to parents who abuse or neglect, reject or abandon, the baby grows up knowing this as love. Most parents will give enough pats on the head and maybe a hug here and there, a kiss on the cheek to keep the child alive, but this adds more to the confusion. A little affection, a lot of abuse. This is love to a great many beings.
    As an adult he/she will seek the same, not consciously of course, because to the adult love equals abuse, neglect, rejection or abandonment with enough of the other to keep him/her alive.
    So some of us learn through various means that what we know as love really isn’t, but breaking this cycle is really, really hard, for these damaged beings have to relearn what love is, and rewriting the coding in the program completely is almost impossible. Almost but not completely…

  58.  #58Tina on December 9, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Tinque, is this where the “crumbs” come in? Enough to keep Terry alive?

  59.  #59Mary Ann on December 9, 2009 at 10:42 am

    hi everyone, I’m trying to catch up..been super busy!

    Shannon…I think we should post our successes here…they are motivating for me and I also think we should be proud of them. They shouldn’t make us feel guilt or shame…I feel like that could perpetuate the problem.

    Speaking of successes…things with J are progressing…very slowly but its so nice for a change! (B has not been around and I am developing feelings for J) I feel my impatience a bit but I keep reminding myself that its good he likes spending time with me without it being physical. It’s what I’ve been wanting, but it feels unsettling. We spend time together..some with friends, some alone. There haven’t been any official “dates” but a couple days ago he said we should go for dinner one night. He has become a little more flirtatious, he texts me goodnight most nights. We played euchre against 2 very attractive women yesterday who are new to the place where we play, and he kept making eye contact with me, and smiling..I felt that we wanted to make sure I knew he wasn’t interested in either of them. He has opportunity but has not kissed me yet. It is always a hug and kiss on the cheek…sometimes almost on the lips but no clear attempt to kiss me! My friends, male and female say I should kiss him..but Rori…I’m listening..lol…I want him to do it!! It will be so much better when he does it!

    Anyway, I feel good…and hopeful and excited and a bit nervous and impatient…but alive 🙂

  60.  #60tinque on December 9, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Yes Tina, Yes.

    Nikita – thank you for posting that quote. He is one of my favorite authors. I can probably recite his book Dear Lover by heart, the best book on this ever. I highly recommend it to all here. Blue Truth is another good one, less flowery languaged than the former, but I love flowery, so…

  61.  #61Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 11:04 am


    I know 😉 I’ve been trolling blogs and I read you loved it, so I’ve been investigating 😉

  62.  #62Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Did you want to expound? I’m considering buying it……but I want to know why? 🙂

  63.  #63Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 11:13 am

  64.  #64Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 11:16 am

    and this …….just cuz

    pause it and then play it……..dunno-but seems to work that way


  65.  #65Simply Shannon on December 9, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Gina: Wahoo!!! I love your date experience! Mmm, mmm, yummy! Buh, bye Johnny! Hell yeah!

    And thanks everyone for encouraging me to write my successes here. Sometimes it feels difficult to have these indepth conversations when I’m busy baby stepping through this process myself. I feel interested in learning through the posts but at times it feels overwhelming and almost too much in my head.

  66.  #66DocK on December 9, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Speaking of toxic relationships – I recently watched the movie My Fair Lady (again). Had not seen it in quite some time.

    Towards the end of the movie, Eliza Doolittle has Freddie the “puppy dog” guy mooning over her and she tells Higgins she will marry Freddie.

    She sings this song (and he interjects here and there):

    What a fool I was, what a dominated fool,
    to think that you were the earth and the sky,
    What a fool I was, What an elevated fool,
    What a mutton-headed dote was I!
    No, my reverberated friend,
    you are not the beginning and the end.

    Professor Higgins (speaking):
    You impetant hussy there’s not an idea in your head or a word in your mouth that I haven’t put there.

    Eliza (singing):
    There’ll be spring every year without you. England still will be here without you.
    There’ll be fruit on the tree.
    And a shore by the sea.
    There’ll be crumpets and tea without you.

    There’s more but that is the gist of it. So it APPEARS that she is standing up for herself and she walks out.

    He misses her singing “I’ve grown accustomed to your face…”

    BUT in the end. SHE goes back to HIM and it ends with him plopped in a chair, stretching out his legs, lowering a hat over his eyes and muttering, “now where are those slippers” as he expects that she will bring them to him.

    I don’t like this ending. I want an alternate ending that we get to choose like some of the movies have now.

    I would have liked it better if he would have gone to get her back. Why did she go back to him? Because she loves him? Did he learn anything by her walking out if she was the one to return?

  67.  #67DocK on December 9, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I think there should be a course taught in school “How popular culture shapes gender constructs and relationships.” Probably is one somewhere.

    I think I’ve written before that we women not only get some fairly bizarre ideas of relationships from the time we are children in fairy tales (damsels in distress rescued by their princes) but also from movies like City of Angels with a veritable angel giving up his angel-ness to be with a woman he loves. And how many movies have people falling in love in a week or engaged to someone for years and suddenly realizing within the space of days of meeting someone that it’s all wrong and blah blah!

    We have songs with lyrics like “every breath you take, I’ll be watching you…” and “(Whatever you do) I’ll be two steps behind you (Wherever you go) and I’ll be there to remind you that it only takes a minute of your precious time to turn around and I’ll be two steps behind…” and “I cannot be without you, matter of fact
    I’m on your back, I’m on your back, I’m on your back. If you walk out on me, I’m walking after you”

    Add in the family examples of relationships we grow up with it’s no wonder we have some screwed up ideas about love and romance.

  68.  #68tinque on December 9, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Nikita – The few words I have for the book Dear Lover is that it SO spoke to my heart. He speaks of the feminine and masculine dynamic, how very different they are yet how gloriously complementary.
    It’s kind of what Rori talks about, yet the presentation is very different. he gives a lovely and lovingly varied perspective.
    Like I said the language is flowery, so if you don’t like that so much then but Blue Truth instead. The information is much the same but presented in plainer language.

  69.  #69tinque on December 9, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    DocK _ I’m so with you on this. It’s the same thing we spoke of recently about the media’s idea of the “ideal” which is a highly made-up, coiffed, and photo-shopped image.
    The same can be said about the songs you mentioned and most all romance movies, stories…
    It’s disturbing and upsetting.

  70.  #70Melanie on December 9, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Dock, I feel excited about your quotes and analysis of My Fair Lady! I have been looking at that movie lately, too! And asking the same questions! Several years ago, I saw a collector’s edition Barbie doll that was Eliza in that pink dress where she sings that song you quoted, and I wanted that doll so much because it symbolized taking care of myself, loving myself, being strong on the inside and soft on the outside (she looks so lovely and feminine in that scene!). I have watched that final scene over and over, trying to understand it. I finally came to feel (or tell myself!) that she came back because she knew he had learned his lesson and finally valued her for who she was. At his mother’s house, SHE left HIM. But with his words, he was essentially inviting her to come back to him. When she saw he had finally gotten the point, she RESPONDED by going back. 🙂 My take, anyway. In any case, in the original play that MFL was based on, Pygmalion, she DOES end up marrying Freddie! Which is absolutely horrible!!!!!

  71.  #71Daria on December 9, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    I had so many revelations last nite:

    Like about how I use my feminine energy in ….


    I feel comfortable on the computer. (I would be well suited to having a business on the computer). I feel comfortable with computer communication, etc…

    I feel comfortable when people contact me or come to me, and teaching them.


    I dont feel comfortable going “out there” and handing out my fliers, or talking to people about my business… or making appointments

    Maybe I WILL

    But i realized how ironic in a way … and absolutely fascinating

    I am with my lil “faults”

    Yes I do want the business to just “come to me” magically. No I don’t want to hear about “go out there and get it”


    FEeling pretty damn good when I was realizing this.

    also I realized an EFT thing that works for me. What if I could feel just a lil bit better! Lol it works an di feel a lil better, which gives me the energy to feel a lil bit better, etc!!!!

    yeah that way works for me!

    Also I realized something else about EFT! IT works cuz its BASED ON RIFFING.

    The underlying statement is I LOVE AND ACCEPT MYSELF

    It feels soooo weird to say something Like Im worhtless


    When i SCREAM IT OUT! (literally) my body hears me. It hears me declaring that I love and accept myself ALL OF ME even tho its feeling worthless. And repeating it is like a out loud riff!

    ITs freaking wild. I can really feel that I MEAN IT when I say it out loud, really loud, rather than mumbling it.

    Yes it feels like im totally going against the grain of the feelig horrible, doomed, desperate, worthless

    I Am the desperate Goddess I wrote a poem

    and then scream out I LOVE AND ACCEPT MYSELF

    it is awesome.


    ps … I also spontaneouslly came up with the organization for a 10 week course…

    I waited for inspiration for that one for a long time

    and kapoof i got it. hehehe

    I’ll be back with my wild poem

  72.  #72Daria on December 9, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    I’m the Violence Goddess

    and sometimes I feel Violated

    and sometimes I feel Validated

    I feel scared of everything

    Im the Desperate Goddess

    Im the Romanian Goddess

    Whenever I’m scared

    I’m disgusting

  73.  #73Daria on December 9, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    i had been thinking about how my godsister’s passion is Anger,

    and how my passion is Desperation





  74.  #74Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 1:32 pm


    tinque- I previewed both on google-but I enjoyed the flowery language…….the other felt “scientificy” (uh YEAH it’s a word-NOW 🙂

    but ……I feel resistance to it…..I agree…and yet bcuz it’s similar to Rori…..I feel like…..what am I getting?

    I feel moony 🙂 reading it….and yet I feel in danger ….weird,
    But I love the idea; Dear Lover…… sigh* decisions-decisions….. I do believe in surrender….am I brave enough??? responsible enough? Do I want to keep my shell? dunnooooooo…help!

  75.  #75Daria on December 9, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Nikita… I feel in danger too…

    it feels a lil too leady and head speaky and LIMITING

    I feel afraid i will feel limited by it

    tho ive found a few insights in there too

    ps the poem is above, the violence goddess thingy

  76.  #76diamond on December 9, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    I used to have a crush on a toxic man … it was an imaginary relationship, really, because he didn’t even email me or call or anything, yet he was my “soulmate”. What a load of crap that was!

    Terry, learn to expect more. Expect men to treat you as well as you would treat them, and expect them to do it FIRST before you throw yourself at them. They gotta earn it is what I’ve learned.

    I have some good news, I’ve been saying feeling messages and leaning back more with my husband. It’s hard because I always want to initiate and not say how I feel when he pisses me off to smooth things over.

    I’ve also been saying what makes me feel loved. Like when he does something for me. He used to give me all this stuff but it didn’t make me feel loved when he would expect me to do everything and then do nothing for me. I’m sorry, but treating me like the maid then giving me a gift doesn’t do it.

    Anyway, now he’s getting up to greet me when I come home, and doing things around the house. Small steps but very encouraging!

  77.  #77Daria on December 9, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    I love this out todays letter.

    I want to feel loved , touched, desired, and cared for.


  78.  #78tinque on December 9, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Nikita – just a thought since you’ve just read bits. surrender doesn’t mean giving your power away at all, not in the least. to me it’s a melting into your own sweet juiciness and a melding with a beloved. it’s a delicious opening, blossoming, a trusting.

  79.  #79Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Thx! 😉 I like leady….. a lot….

    I think I will get it…..just to outgirl my roomie…..I need to feel restored to softness 🙂

    It is a little over the top….but I need repetitive stuff………..sometimes 😉

  80.  #80Daria on December 9, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    I usually like leady… but i don’t like his leady… i feel a lil unsafe.

    I feel threatened by “logic” and black and white thinking reading it. I feel limited

    then again i only read bits and pieces of the superior man

    nothing else

  81.  #81DocK on December 9, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Yayyyy for Romanian Goddess!!

  82.  #82Nikita on December 9, 2009 at 2:07 pm


    I feel a lot of power in surrendering……..I want to get more comfortable with that…..when I’m in the mood I can be very charming….but sometimes my defensiveness blocks gifts and receiving……if you know what I mean….

    Him; “let’s go do this!”

    Me…”uh”……(yeah right you aren’t gonna really do that)

    Him; “c’mon, it’ll be fun…and then we can….”

    Me; “um…uh…” (yeah,right!stop lying!!!! you don’t have to….)

    Him: “…and then…..do you want to…….?”

    Me; “oh look, a puppy!”….(why do I change the subject when I know I want what he’s offering? grrr)


  83.  #83Daria on December 9, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    You’ll see that there’s no instantaneous way
    to start “getting” that the new drawer is now
    where the underwear is…You’re going to have
    to keep instinctively going to the old, WRONG
    drawer until the NEW pattern develops, and you
    find yourself naturally going to the new drawer.

  84.  #84Daria on December 9, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    there is NO instantaneous way.

    im gonna keep going to the old drawer until the new pattern develops


    maybe the belief system worked kina like that too

    the embedded energies will spontaneously release out of my body and my jelly



    and it will feel good

    thank u

  85.  #85alias girl on December 9, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    nice. i liked that too— the underwear drawer thing.

    and i relate to the puppy pullaway nikita. i felt resonance when i read that.

    argh. i feel very fuck-offish and leave-me-alone-to-die today.

    oh, i love those feelings. how devilish and out-in-the- cold they feel. aw i love my feelings. i feel sympathy for the stringy haired girl living under the bridge. Come In! Come In! There is love and warmth and soup and goddesses. come in. there is a beautiful paradise island. come in and let others in. break apart. and let it flow in.

    thank you.

  86.  #86Daria on December 9, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    how devilish and out-in-the- cold they feel

    ohhh i love this mucho

  87.  #87Rachel on December 9, 2009 at 3:10 pm


    What you wrote about surrender is beautiful. I can feel the joy and peace in living that way…


  88.  #88Daria on December 9, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    I so feel curious and annoyed about not clearly remembering either my thought or dream abotu a wonderful man last nite.

    It was something like….

    he was always honest but direct, to the point that he was real…

    ie he would say something about the vibe and energy that would cut thru whatever trigger pattern i would play out

    instead of getting pulled into the pattern

    but i forgot WHAT about him

    i just remember feeling him

  89.  #89tinque on December 9, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Nikita (oh and thank you Rachel) surrendering is scary, really, really scary, especially when it’s unfamiliar. Your reactions are rather normal. It does feel unsafe at first, but each time you allow it, it feels so good, and then you feel a little bit safe, and then a little bit more.
    It took me seemingly forever, and I can still at times find old habitual responses kicking in.
    It’s nice if you can catch it as it starts, for the sooner you feel it, the easier it is to breathe through it or do whatever it is that works for you to dissipate the defensiveness.
    There have been times and usually it’s during sex when everything falls away, and all that is left is pure essence and love. The connection with K is amazing, and orgasm doesn’t even have to be present to feel this though that is of course a wonderful extra loveliness. Like the heath bar bits in my coffee ice cream. Well….it’s better than that, but you get my point.

  90.  #90tinque on December 9, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    thunderstorms during snowfall???
    I’m not sure I like this.

  91.  #91Carla on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    ‘Lo Peoples,

    Terry might benefit from some serious exposure to Rose Quartz.
    It could be worn as a pendant, a necklace, or a bracelet. I wear Rose Quartz and it’s helped me to stay with my own highest good when it comes to romance and sex.

    Rose Quartz would help Terry’s self-love to flow and grow so she’d have yet another tool like Rori’s teachings, EFT, etc to give herself the soulmate she deserves.

    I want to thank Daria for this affirmation. “I choose the reality that I am a Goddess and the man I will marry is healed by my aura without my having to do anything except focus on loving myself.”

    Thank you, also, Simply Shannon for news of your success. The Law of Attraction reminds us to focus on what we’d rather have: happy, empowered, and adored women with their devoted guys!

    And of course, thank you, Rori for the blog and the chance to comment!

  92.  #92Tina on December 9, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Married or not , she is still only accepting crumbs. I feel “connected” still to 1 1/2 year man grrr, I don’t want to feel connected, I want to feel nothing. I saw him standing by the driveway as I drove pass, he turned and looked in my direction. I felt extremely sad driving by him, like if I stopped I would have bawled my eyes out. I drove by him and his new “girlfriend” I felt ok when I saw them both but when I saw him alone I felt really sad 🙁

    I feel sad and connected grrrrrr I hate my feelings of sadness and connectedness grrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I hate you sad feelings.

  93.  #93Tina on December 9, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I have an underwear drawer, the thing is, my underwear is scattered all over my room hehe. I’m not feeling sure if the underwear drawer thing applies to me though?

  94.  #94Tina on December 9, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    Maybe I’ll fee much better and nothing when I do see him around regularly, his going away made things easy for me. I think I saw him maybe three times in passing since the speech and he ditched. “Truckman” wants to hang around for Christmas, I havnt decided yet. I want to see a few christmas shows and go shopping, drink hot chocolate and do christmasy stuff. I’m getting some really cool stuff for christmas, I do know that much hehe. I’m going shopping for the family my school is sponsering, I would like to spend christmas with complete strangers 🙂 I lost my christmas cds, since I moved and seperated from my ex husband , I prefer to call him my exhusband since were not together, never mind the issue of divorce. I’ll just bury my head in the sand til the time comes.

  95.  #95Tina on December 9, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    I lost all my christmas jams *sniffle

  96.  #96Linda on December 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Someday soon, I am going to meet the man who’s heart is prepared to love me. He is going to appear while I am just being me. I feel positive and unanxious.


  97.  #97Terry on December 10, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Shannon and Gina:
    Yes! Please keep sharing the successes with us. It’s highly motivating, and I’m happy for you. 🙂
    Carla: Yes, I know all about rose quartz — have a fully cleansed and charged one in my pocket right now.

    Rori is SOOO right about Steve being unavailable.
    He proved it again this week. He called Monday, set up a coffee date for Wed., and then texted me last night at 10 pm to tell me the baby’s sitter was sick and he wouldn’t be able to make it.
    I LAUGHED. This has gotten so totally stupid I couldn’t even be angry or frustrated.
    Then I ignored his text until today, when I texted back, “Sorry to hear it. What do you want to do?” He wants to see me on Friday. I think I will be unavailable because that will feel good! His birthday is Saturday. I think I will ignore it.
    Yes, his willingness to stay in the abusive marriage (and have sex with his abuser) makes him toxic. What Rori wrote about that made complete sense to me.
    Nobody, however, is completely good or bad. He also had a capacity, at least for several months, to show me some really darned good stuff.

    Back when things were good with us and he was planning to leave, we had many talks about him breaking the cycle of abuse instead of enabling it for his kids. At the time, he recognized that, and said our love was motivating him to work towards getting out. He went back to college (online) to get his degree and started to talk with “Jane” about a divorce.
    All that stopped when the baby came.
    I never wanted to “fix” him. In fact, mostly what I said to him when he spouted those lines about being trapped and staying to protect his kids was, “Are you open to it looking different than that?”

    The soulmate thing was deeply felt as intellectual and spiritual companionship and connection on many levels. Has only happened once before, when I was 17. That was a few decades and dozens of relationships ago.
    I’m not afraid to be alone. In fact, I do great when alone. However, I would much rather find guy I share that kinship with.

    Timing ‘wrong?’ Maybe. But there are lots of married guys who leave wives for girlfriends. I know several such couples and they’re all still happily married (to the girlfriends, not the wives). Who knows why people meet when they do and what purpose it serves?

    At this point, though, it doesn’t matter if he’s my soulmate or not. He’s clearly not in control of his own life. Hell, the guy can’t even manage to keep a single coffee date over a month’s time.
    The ridiculousness of that situation has done a lot to help me NOT miss him right now. I don’t have the intention of “getting him back” in his current condition.
    There’s nothing deep or complicated in that.

  98.  #98Daria on December 10, 2009 at 12:17 am

    wow terry. I feel very strengthened and inspired by your response and how honest and powerful it feels.

  99.  #99Daria on December 10, 2009 at 12:36 am

    gosh AG! playing the prosperity game felt GOOD! today! wow!! THank you for turning me on to this!

    I realized that if I felt I made money right now I would feel so energized and free to do seemingly totally unrelated stuff.. . like go out!!! and party!!! I would feel its ok for me to do that! I would feel its ok to spend the nite wherever I want! I would feel like I can totally even go out to clubs by myself, like I will for sure FIND someone to hang out with or to go to, they will find me, like life is an adventure!!! WOW!!! wowwowoww!!! thas wassup!!!

  100.  #100Mary on December 10, 2009 at 12:38 am

    hey terry, i’m glad you’re here, talking with us. i’m in a lil pit too with my relationship. it looks like it’s goin’ somewhere, but… it’s not.

    let’s climb out of the pit! I need help too! I want to set an intention! common sense tells me to drop this man like a hot potato, no matter what he said or how charming he is or what his good points are. i’m okay alone, too!

    so let’s be alone again. quit letting these guys hand their abuse over to us. quit hitting ourselves over the head with them as our hammers.

    what is step one in getting out of the pit? why don’t we do this together?

  101.  #101Mary on December 10, 2009 at 1:04 am

    hello tracy,

    i’ve been thinking about your comment to me in reference to the story of my husband leaving, and the other woman, etc.

    you talked about having feelings of remorse, and about making amends.

    i just want you to know that it felt good to hear you say that. it felt like the other woman came over and knocked on my door and said she was sorry. for all those nights i spent at the window. for my feelings of being alone and terrified. for the times i woke up at night, scared and alone for the first time in my life. for the times when my phone was silent for days on end.

    i don’t know anything about your situation, and i feel sad that you’re looking back and having those remorseful feelings. i just wanted to thank you for the comment. it caused a little flip in my heart to read it.

    love, mary

  102.  #102Mary on December 10, 2009 at 1:28 am

    and i know that it wasn’t her fault that my husband left! his leaving had nothing to do with her! he just picked her because she WAS AVAILABLE. and then he dropped her when it became difficult. so i know she didn’t cause any of my feelings.

    i participated in the divorce. i took myself to the window and stayed there. I didn’t deal with my fear.

    but i did send myself flowers on valentine’s day!


  103.  #103alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 2:13 am

    tina i would feel happy with some christmas jams also. although i do have a dvd that shows a roaring fire and has christmas music on that. 🙂

    daria. yes money is very tied in to other parts of my life too. i feel good to really try and enjoy my life Now. life is good now. this is like moving my underwear. it’s rewiring. go ice skating now alias girl. go hiking now alias girl. dance now. do crafts now. enjoy now. i am rewiring old behaviors. and well today i was basically frozen in terror all day. is ok. i felt good and perfectly fine at church in the evening. i feel very appreciative to still have new days to create my dream life. i feel good to imagine living it. i feel good my life gets better and better everyday. that feels supergreat regardless of anything else. what a joy to feel joy. even underneath terror. is amazing actually.

  104.  #104Mary on December 10, 2009 at 3:27 am

    i can’t sleep, and i guess i’m just talking to myself here. i’m pretty upset. alone. all my family loves me and wants me to live near them, and i live here because it’s PRETTY. rainforests, waterfalls, ocean everywhere, unbelievable things to do, great people. i LOVE it. but sometimes i get that foreign feeling.

    and my ex-fiancee is acting as if we’re back together. and i’m wondering: ARE WE? i don’t even know! silly me. i can’t even figure out if i want him back. i kinda wanted to date for a while, but now i don’t want to lose him. WHY? i don’t know! i’m happy with him, but not. i can’t even figure out what my feelings are. and that feels crazy.

    tonite he called and asked me to go on a little trip to vegas. i told him no. i said that i was foggy about what we were doing.

    last night a woman called him when we were going somewhere, and he answered and said, “hey, i can’t go! but thanks for asking!” it seemed like a setup to me. but i’m suspicious.

    i want to see what it’s like with someone new, but i want to keep him around in case i want him again. which is what he did to me, which really killed me, which is why i’m so hesitant about him. he couldn’t make up his mind, ambivalent man! and now i can’t make up mine. he handed over the toxicity and now i’m doing it to him.

    well. i’m getting nowhere. nowhere.

  105.  #105Linda on December 10, 2009 at 4:59 am

    Mary, I can understand the feelings of ambivilance and wanting a back up plan. Both of those are driven by two different places within you. Maybe you could really look inside to figure out which is best for you and serve you best.

    He might be assuming you are back together, but whatever your history when things like this happen there is a re-learning curve.

    Stay commited to circular dating until you feel ready or he has demonstrated for a long period of time that he is really in this.

    Men can act a way for a while but the real person emerges sooner or later. Be patient, enjoy the attention if it feels good and keep your eyes open. If it was me I would be very vocal about my suspicions etc. If this guy is genuine, things like that will not knock him off his destination.

    Well that is my two cents worth.



  106.  #106Mary on December 10, 2009 at 5:10 am

    hi linda,

    thank you! i’m still up; can’t believe it. i appreciate your two million dollars worth.

    i’m wanting to date other people for a while, but i don’t want to lose this guy, for whatever reason. i keep setting people off by saying this, but he thinks it’s really sleazy of me to be out and about (or oat and aboat, as they say here) with other men when we have such a deep connection. when we were split up, he was seeing other women, but i was home alone, READING. now i want to get out! maybe i should just tell him i can’t be with him now. i want to just casually date others. what do you think?

    we’re going out saturday night, and i’m getting a speech ready. just so i’ll have it in there, waiting to come out if i decide to use it.

  107.  #107Mary on December 10, 2009 at 5:19 am

    oh, finally. my eyes are watering and it’s time for nighty night.

    hello you eastcoasters.

    i’ll be sleepin when you’re wakin.

  108.  #108Linda on December 10, 2009 at 6:14 am

    I met someone about a month ago at a meet up bondfire. He found me on POF after I joined my local meet up singles group. Personally invited me to come.

    He has been really nice, giving, inclusive and pursuing me. I am feeling a thawing of my numbness after my last deal with the last guy I was seeing.

    He kept telling me to give him a try…(I had shared a bit of my last experiences and my attitudes toward dating etc) i.e…. was going to have some fun and meet people etc.

    He was very attentive in the beginning. I met his family, etc. He text all the time, called me etc. Lately he has been a little more distant. I thought hmmmm so this guy says he is different but is he really? So… I decided to send him an email.

    We have developed a friendship and there is a flirty but well balanced banter between us too. I decided I wanted to compliment him on his demonstrating his intergrity toward me, the way he lives, is withothers, his work ethic, and how he loves his young daugher. Nothing asking for a relationship but my intent was purely to compliment and test the water a little.

    He called me last night and I brough up the email. I wanted to know what he meant by “give me a chance”… I told him the my numb heart had been thawed by his kindness toward me and I was feeling open toward him because of everything I had sighted in the email. He finally told me that he had been exchanging email with another woman had contacted him about two weeks ago (she found out that he had broken up with his exlusive girlfriend of 11 months) and they set up a time to go to dinner next week. I thanked him for telling me…and we talked more. We have never had a conversation or made moves toward a romantic relationship, but I could feel one as a possibility.

    I joked with him and said, you know you dont have to go out with the other woman, in fact I suspect you wont. He laughed and said…”you recon” LOL…..

    Hey he can do what he wants, I threw the fleece out there. I shared what I wanted, we agreed that communication is the basis for everything between people. If he goes out with her, I dont care really. I have been talking to a few other men too. We were not exclusive but he knows now that I am open to being more than friends.

    The victory in this for me, is that I could sense the difference and my intuitions were right. Yeah for ME!

    I talked about it with him… being protective of myself YEAH ME!
    I am not anxious about what he is doing, thinking or feeling. YEAH ME

    He is coming over tonight and we have plans on Saturday. Who knows what will happen between us, I am not worried about down the road, just enjoying the day and the moment.


  109.  #109Aldonza on December 10, 2009 at 8:04 am

    I wish to hell I knew what it was that was so compelling about some of these men that give us crumbs and make us feel grateful for them. I mean, they aren’t even really any better than the other men who want us. But damn that chemistry thing. I know it’s like an addiction where even as we’re doing something harmful to ourselves, we get little rushes of brain chemicals that satiate us.


  110.  #110Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 8:21 am

    I used to feel it was a pit – and oh those rocks of Shannon’s that were scrunched in there hurt so bad I Thought sand MUST feel better, but ugh no nonononono I don’t want such a choiceless choice.

    Now I realize it’s a WELL, and when it’s emptied of rocks, the sand filtered out, the well can and does feel wonderfully full of Life Water swirling around and touching off the Love Sensors in the walls as it courses through. What hurt was love sensors getting overwhelmed and stuck open under the toxic rock crush, bleeding out their love, only to be tossed with the sand to blow away in the desert or to make someone else’s cement. My well is the source of my pond. No sterile cement for me, I’ll keep my organic, enriching slime of bad feelings to nourish and bind me together naturally .

    My Pond: it is like the one described by Rori with all its myriad aspects, processes and life forms like a real pond, with my Deep Deep Deep Well as its spring. The Well and the Pond are joined in the center by an entrancing and fabulously beautiful vortex, glowing with turquoise light flowing through all the colors of the rainbow. I just want a lovely, loving WaterWheel to adore it’s beauty and power, to dynamize this idyllic whole, to share in going beyond what we are individually towards another potential. My mind has been having trouble with this contraption, trying to figure out how the thing is put together, to give design input even though I have no idea about these things. Aha – that is for the Waterwheel to take care of, no Mechanics Illustrated for me, while I float in my pondness, brimming with Love Water to flow around the wheel, turning it on. I feel good to let him invent the Waterwheel and get turned on as my Love Water falls back into my Pond.

  111.  #111Simply Shannon on December 10, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Linda: YEAH!!! You honored yourself and paying attention to your feelings. I love it!

    I got this in my email today and wanted to share it. It’s a daily email I get from Joel Osteen. I find it ironic that Rori’s waterwheel is actually something described in the bible. Check it out. Notice the word “overflow”. Sooo cool!

    TODAY’S WORD from Joel and Victoria

    “…we went through fire and water, but you brought us to a place of abundance”
    (Psalm 66:12, NIV)

    Friend, no matter what your circumstances may look like today, God’s plan is to bring you through to a place of abundance. He wants you to have an abundance of peace, an abundance of joy, an abundance of resources—He wants you to overflow with His blessings so that you can be a blessing to the people around you.

    One thing I’ve learned is that if you want to live in the overflow of God’s blessings, you have to have an attitude to receive the overflow. Remember, as a believer in Jesus, you are a child of the Most High God. Royal blood is flowing through your veins. You were not created to be average. You were not created to barely get by and drag through life. You have seeds of greatness on the inside. You are well able to do whatever God has called you to do!

    Today, I encourage you to put your shoulders back, hold your head up high and start thinking like a victor. And when you’re a victor, you know that any adversity in your life is not permanent, it’s temporary. Have the attitude to receive the overflow of God’s abundance. Keep believing and keep expecting because it’s just a matter of time until He turns things around in your favor!

  112.  #112Simply Shannon on December 10, 2009 at 9:24 am

    There’s this one man who I’ve been talking to who lives about 45 minutes away. When he emailed me the first time, I thought he was cute and sounded appealing so I didn’t send my normal “I feel uncomfortable with long distance relationships, good luck with your search” email. And he’s been calling me pretty frequently but I’ve felt annoyed by it. I’ve felt hesitant to use any of my energy on him because I don’t want a long distance relationship. So I’ve just been ignoring his calls/ texts/ emails. Finally today, I responded to his email and told him what I was feeling (disconnected, uninterested, etc. because of the distance). And he called me straight away. We talked, and I told him again what I was feeling.

    As crazy as this sounds, I told him I’m looking for somethng long term and I know my truth is that I don’t want to move. And his response was that his job was flexible and he could move. I dunno. I know that sounds crazy to even have that discussion upfront (we’ve never even met), but I felt better after we spoke. I don’t feel 100% open to a relationship involving long distance but I do feel open to meeting him. We’re going out next Thursday. 🙂

    Again, baby steps. I feel brave.

  113.  #113Linda on December 10, 2009 at 11:39 am

    SS: Thanks for sharing this. I get the same emails forwarded to me from a friend at times. GOod things to be mindful of.

    Maybe just maybe… you have a blessing that lives further away than your backyard. I find I am always getting challanged by my “dont wont list” Having a conversation about that stuff up front seems natural to me. Kinda like putting out a disclaimer. But…. maybe over 45 minutes away is just what you need. God is not obligated to make things fit inside the “box”…

    Smiles… Linda

  114.  #114Simply Shannon on December 10, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Linda: Challenging my don’t want list… ain’t that the dang truth!?! 🙂 Ahhh!

    It felt good to be honest with him. I was feeling guilty for ignoring him after I was the one who said I was willing to talk even though we aren’t in the same city. At the same time, I followed my feelings. I felt okay at first, but then I felt turned off. So still feeling brave.

    Who knows. I keep reminding myself to be surprised…

  115.  #115Soignée on December 10, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Dear Ladies

    I would like to ask you your advice.
    A toxic man from my past I was madly in love with (in imaginary relationship) sent me every year to Christmas the best wishes. I know he will do the same this year.
    I do not want to answer. But on the other side, I just want to express my feelings. I feel sad and very angry that he would use my lack of experience. So I just want to tell him my feelings but I am not sure if he will pay attention to them. Can it be ok writing him an answer with my truth? It won’t change anything. He won’t change. But maybe he will know that I realized how innocent I was.What do you mean?

  116.  #116Mary Ann on December 10, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Flipper…that was beautiful…sigh 🙂

    Shannon…if he’s coming to you…maybe there’s no distance? What do you think? I know Rori does not approve in long distance, but 45 minutes isn’t long distance to me…that’s around the corner in rush hour lol!

    Missed you all!

  117.  #117Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    more confusion. more angst.
    Is it possible to OD on angst?
    What does that look like?
    I talked to B last night. He claims he told me about coming home early then told me he was going to TO with his buddy because he was excited. Not because he was playing head games.
    He says he didn’t make plans to see me right away because he didn’t think I wanted to see him.
    He claims to know what my issue is with the porn…but cannot articulate it.
    He says that he is not used to being supportive verbally but is working on it.
    I told him I was confused. What does he say to his buddies if they tell him they have trouble? Does he tell them that “that’s the way it is and you have to get used to it?”
    He claims that he doesn’t have any convos like that with his buddies. So I asked him why not?
    He says he doesn’t know…..
    He says he doesn’t really talk to them about his problems either…….
    I said to him…well then who do you tell them to? He says no one.
    I asked who he had talked to about our breakup.
    He said no one.
    He says he is not like me who has lived in the same area for years and grew up here and has lots of friends.
    He doesn’t have close friends like that…….
    I told him that I feel concerned about that.
    I asked if this could be at the root of the porn.
    He won’t feel his feelings so he uses porn to stuff them down?
    He says he doesn’t know
    I don’t understand how a person can be soo disconnected from their emotions and other people.
    This cannot be healthy.
    I feel sadness from him
    I feel loneliness in his voice.
    But the things he tells me don’t make sense to me.

  118.  #118alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    jennifer if i were that guy i might feel invaded. a need to protect and put up walls and shields. laser focussed. i would feel like screaming WHAT ABOUT YOUR OWN PROBLEMS??? STOP USING ME AS A SCAPEGOAT TO FEEL BAD!

    i guess i feel triggered. cool. but dang i can not STAND it when someone focusses on my problems. though i know i did this extensively with my EX. yae! mirror!

    thank you jennifer. i feel enlightened.

    and thank you flipper for your lovely imagery and imagination and vulnerability.

    and yes simply shannon in los angeles 45 minutes to get anywhere is normal. 🙂 but still it’s whatever YOU feel comfortable with. just offering a different perspective.

    Soignée it could be an opportunity to practice expressing yourself. just as long as you are not concerned about the “results” or are not trying to manipulate him.

  119.  #119alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    i don’t want men who are weak in their pursuit. i don’t want men who are stalkerish in their pursuit. i don’t want men who come on strong and then wilt. i don’t want men who text as primary form of communication.

    i want men who plan and followup and take my desires and feelings into consideration. I don’t want a “nice” guy who is really just a passive girly whiny man and labels that “nice.”

    of course i do want a genuinely nice guy.

    i don’t want a married or otherwise already taken man. i want a romantic man.

    i don’t feel good when i am basically leading the relationship with my “don’t wants.” (ie when i say “i don’t want a man who texts as a primary form of communication, i am basically leading the man not to be a pussy and i lose interest. ) this is my own opinon and so if you don’t have a problem with texting good for you. this is how I FEEL about it. pussies.

    i don’t want a pussy. i’d rather have a toxic player gangster man than a PUSSY whiny girly texting man. however those are the two extremes and i don’t want either.

    i want a good man who is romantic and somewhat stoic (but not all closed off and unavailable). a protective, manly man. a leader and rower who considers my feelings. i want to be treated like a goddess and i want to consider him my king. i want a freaky sex relationship and monogamy. i want to do fun things together and maybe even work together creatively. i want to travel together and make a nice home for us and i want him to be my perfect guy for me. and i want to be his ideal woman. i want him to feel like, WOW, im with her.


  120.  #120Mary on December 10, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    linda: thanks for the middle-o-the-nite talk. i went straight to sleep then. i’m happy for you that you’re expressing yourself with this guy and that he’s reacting positively! now hopefully he can start rowing and you can sit back and relax and enjoy the view.

    shannon: love it! abundance here we come.

    flipper: turquoise light in the vortex. to dynamize this idyllic whole. mmmmm. beautiful! what if the pond was our living room? check out this water wheel: http://www.woodthatworks.com/kinetic-sculptures/falling-water/ – be sure to look at the movie of the real one!

  121.  #121Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    hey AG
    That’s a good point. I am a nurse and a helper by nature so if I think someone is having an issue I want to help get to the bottom of that. It is fantastic for my girlfriends but maybe not so great for men.
    I do it with my brother too…but I guess B is a different situation.
    I just felt so shocked by that. Like “what do you mean you don’t talk to anybody!?!?!?!””
    I actually asked him “so since we’ve broken up you just walk around with that pain all the time? And no way to work through it?”
    Then I felt really sad..like i could feel his isolation.
    Then I felt like I was starting to understand some of his issues.
    Like he would sometimes get pissy (for want of a better word) if I spent alot of time out and about. I’m a chronic visitor…I’ll drop by my varied friend’s houses all the time. He is not a drop by kinda guy. But he seemed almost jealous of my time out.
    But I guess that makes sense if he doesn’t have anyone but me to confide in.
    I always thought that he wasn’t telling me what he thought about stuff and how he felt so he must be telling some one else and I was being shut out.
    I guess he wasn’t telling ANYONE his stuff.

    I need to work on not being in my head so much I guess. I just think about this situation all the damned time. I want to try to make sense of it.
    It’s hard for me to relax and FEEL my way around.

  122.  #122Mary Ann on December 10, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Hi Jennifer…I have to say I agree with Alias Girl…I mean this from a supportive place, and from my experience and learning here. His stuff is his stuff…what is your stuff? He needs to feel safe in expressing things…I would not feel safe if I were him…I would feel judged and protective of my privacy. I feel aggression and anger from you…I’m triggered as well.
    How do you feel? the key word is feel…not think…not feel about…just feel..period.

  123.  #123Mary on December 10, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    i think that when you take a person at face value, it forces the truth and tells you a lot about the relationship.

    truth …. face value response …. more truth, more clarification with the result of more closeness

    lie … face value response …. same lie said again, less closeness


    we, as feelers, don’t usually give face value responses, because we can feel the truth. so we jump over the boundary of respect and suppose this and suppose that. it solidifies the relationship and causes it to be more rigid. on the other hand, respect always, always helps the relationship to have more looseness and flexibility. and more truth.

    (yes, i’m making this up)

    JENNIFER: B’s answers to your questions gave you more clarification. you accepted him at face value. so did you feel more close to him after that? (just checking my little theory)

  124.  #124Mary Ann on December 10, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Jennifer..just so you know, I write my last post before seeing your last one…

  125.  #125Mary on December 10, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    ALIAS GIRL: wow.

    “i want a good man who is romantic and somewhat stoic (but not all closed off and unavailable). a protective, manly man. a leader and rower who considers my feelings. i want to be treated like a goddess and i want to consider him my king. i want a freaky sex relationship and monogamy. i want to do fun things together and maybe even work together creatively. i want to travel together and make a nice home for us and i want him to be my perfect guy for me. and i want to be his ideal woman. i want him to feel like, WOW, im with her.”

    can i copy this over and send it in an email to my guy? he’s like that! i’m feeling so much better today! we had a lot of talks today on the phone. he called and i had my speech written out. he wanted to talk on the phone rather than in person, because there’s so much chemistry there that it’s distracting. so we talked, i expressed myself in feeling statements. he listened. he’s a manly man. he’s protective. he’s a leader; a rower. oh, i LOVE that!

    yeah. i wouldn’t send it to him. but it was AMAZING to see him described in your email.

  126.  #126Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    hey Mary Ann

    I feel kinda embarrassed actually.
    I am trying soooo hard to understand him and where he’s coming from that never realized I could be coming off as judgmental.
    That makes sense to me…now that you say it.
    But still the whole idea of having stuff going on in your life and no one to talk to is almost surreal to me.
    I have a very large extended family and like three best friends in this area.
    So if I have stuff going on..the first thing I do is go over to so and so’s or call cousin such and such and yap about it.
    It’s a way of life for me. I’ll also call my dad if needs be.

    I can start to see also where he said he felt like I chose my family over him sometimes.
    It’s just what I do to call up my sister and brother and do whatever and shoot the breeze.

    Especially since I started to pull away after a long time of what looked to me like his disinterest in my issues.
    His responses were one word etc. So I just said “screw it I’ll call my sister.” From her I get at least some support.

    But if that’s really the best he can do…cause that’s his experience. It looks to him like I’m choosing other people to talk to about my stuff and I guess that’s true but I would have preferred to tell him if I thought he gave a shit.


  127.  #127Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    and yeah I feel aggressive and angry. I don’t’ mean for it to come out in my posts…I’m basically just riffing.

    I feel so angry about this sometimes that I feel like my head could explode!

    I also feel soooo sad..

    How can this ever work? Why is this so hard?
    Shouldn’t it be easy by now…after 6 years/

    It just feels like it’s soooo HARD!!!!!

  128.  #128Mary Ann on December 10, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Hey Jennifer,
    See this is where you have control, over what you do. You can open your feelings to him…simply…with no comments about him or his actions. This is where you can be vulnerable…its scary but its good…then be quiet and let there be space for him to say something if he wants. Its okay if he doesn’t, sometimes it take a man a couple of days to digest and be able to open up. Give him the air space to do it. A man can’t come to you if you’re chasing him, he can’t open up to you if don’t stop talking.

  129.  #129Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Thanks – it felt good to hear from those who were touched by my Pond vision. Mary, the kinetic water sculpture was far better and more intricate than anything I could come up with. I feel validated in deciding to leave the Waterwheels to invent themselves and wow me with their prowess.

    Jennifer, your guy just sounds pretty typical of many males to me. Buds are for doing things with, not sharing feelings. It’s quite common for some men not to have many friends of the intimate kind we consider true friends, and to feel fine working things out for themselves in their own heads. Until things get really heavy, and that’s when they need a woman who shares how it is to be able to go deeper. Who can help unlock those feelings they can ignore they even have, or at least don’t realize their value without her inspiring example. And it’s often just one woman that this happens with – they don’t ‘get it” from most interactions with women in general nor imaginary relationships that felt real on our side. I feel that’s what Rori is teaching us : how to be That One Woman who reveals to a man what relationship is all about and piques his desire to have it at all costs for himself.

  130.  #130Tina on December 10, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Simply Shannon, I live in a somewhat remote area and 45 mins is not far, otherwise I would be dating the trees and mostly myself. I have no desire to move anywhere right now, I feel perfectly ok where I’m at. I have one person right now I am dating “truckman” he did loan my his other truck to get back and forth to class with, I feel grateful and happy for his generousity. He said if I need more gas to let him know:) I love his ability to communicate. I like that I feel “heard” I like that he is so generous 🙂 I like that a lot. He is making me new christmas jams, like replacing the ones I lost in all my moving. I’m kinda glad I dont have Rori’s program “Modern Siren” lol. I did get her E-book (twice) Havetherelationshipyouwant and her e-letters/tools I just love the tools. I would like to have more circular dating guys , I just dont right now. It”s ok though. I do get to practice the tools I’ve learned on men around me like at the store, in passing, the bank, restaurants, everywhere and anywhere.

  131.  #131Daria on December 10, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Jennifer –

    not talking about stuff is pretty typical guy stuff from what i understood from some of Rori’s eletters.

    Also I think she wrote that guys are not all in touch with their emotions like we are… AND (BIG AND)

    We wouldnt’ want them to be!!!

    Thats our job! If he was all into emotions he would likely be too feminine for us.

    I do feel tense reading about your interactions with him. you say you are trying to understand him, but we are practicing not even thinking about him…

    so thinking and trying understanding him would = being all in his business.

    he sounds like a typical guy to me, sounds like the balance is way off, and

    me personally I would want to lean way back and not contact him.

    I would tell him I feel really angry and uncared for that I didn’t get the first plans.

    And I would listen to what he says, and if it was but blah blah, and it didn’t feel good, I would say , you know this doesn’t feel good. Maybe even I gotta go.

    And then I would focus on dating some other people and FORGETTING ALL ABOUT HIM as much as I could, taking my thoughts elsewear.

    Personally I would expect this man to take a long time to turn around and pursue me, but I would never know if I don’t do my own thing. Besides, I could be totally off in my guess. Better to be surprised.

  132.  #132Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    hey Daria….
    thanks for the advice.
    I don’t really feel angry about the plans. I feel disappointed but when he said he was going to go with his friend I felt that was ok. I told him all along that i felt he should spend more time with his buddies. That that was one of our problems.
    He never had any friends in our town …his ONE friend before he joined the military was in another city and I kept encouraging him to go to visit him but he rarely did.
    And really…
    I like his friend. I think if it was up to me to choose B’s friends this would be one of the guys on the list.
    He’s a very considerate and outgoing guy. He treats B really well (some of his buddies don’t I feel) and was nice to me the two time I met him.
    I’m ok with not being the #1 thing in this instance as long as I feel I get the majority of the air time over the long haul.

  133.  #133Daria on December 10, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Jennifer –

    wow. Well I feel surprised.

    I personally would feel very angry, along with disappointed.

    I do not like the idea of coming after the friend, no matter how good a friend he would be.

    I want FIRST. I want to be the GODDESS.

    I would feel bad about myself if he picked someone else first… and I would feel angry at him for my feeling bad about myself. And I would let him know as soon as he called…

    umm hi how are you?

    hi… um… well im feeling upset actually. I felt bad that I wasnt’ the first person in town to spend time with. And im feeling angry about that!

    What? But its not even like that…

    Well im feeling bad. ANd i feel really angry…

    lol. ok im having a talk with an imaginary man rite now lol. But thats how I wouldve felt. I don’t like feeling bad. and i would feel angry if i felt bad due to a man’s actions.

  134.  #134Daria on December 10, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    PS —

    I feel scared to share this BUT : this struck me

    “I told him all along that i felt he should spend more time with his buddies.”

    That is a thought:

    “I told him all along that i THINK he should spend more time with his buddies.”

    aack. I feel weird. I feel hopeful that this will draw attention to some leaning forward that can be brought to awareness and changed if wanted.

  135.  #135Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    hey daria…
    Why feel weird? I totally feel grateful for all of the input I receive here!
    Yeah the difference between felt and thought could be significant…..let me ponder it.

    As for the buddy….that’s a valid point too. I have a hard time wanting to be first. I don’t really see myself fitting into the goddess mold. Something I’m working on.

    My issue was that he told me his “get home quick as I can travel plans” and that made me feel a little hopeful that maybe he was coming to see me as quick as he could. Then he mentions he’s coming home quick to get an early start from his parent’s house to the motorcycle show. …that felt disappointing. Which I don’t think I would have felt if he hadn’t have built it up like that.

    Being in first place with a man is not something I have ever experienced so I don’t really have a frame of reference.

    Hell, I don’t even get to be first place with my family so that is where the idea that I shouldn’t be prolly comes from.

    Basically I am support staff with my immediate family. If you have something that needs doing …call Jen. They will listen if I call them for a chat but even at my last birthday I couldn’t get what I REALLY wanted. So it almost never occurs to me that I should be first with anyone.

    big trigger.
    I feel really teary about that. That sucks. It’s pretty shitty to not get what you want on “your day”.
    I feel like slapping my mother.
    I feel like shaking her silly.
    I resent the HELL out of her.

    When B graduated the military …. there was a social hour. As his buddies were there, naturally there were introductions to be made.
    At one point he introduced his parents to a buddy and whether he did or did not introduce me, I didn’t hear him and buddy never acknowledged me.

    I felt soooo disappointed to not be included. I stood with my head down feeling ignored and embarrassed to even be there.
    I was telling a friend that I was ok with him introducing his parents first, I just wanted to be included.
    She said…”Why was it ok to introduce them first? YOU should have been first and then them.”
    I didn’t understand what she meant.

    And now I’m just sitting here crying even to think about how humiliated I felt.
    But I told B I felt “a little dissapointed not to be introduced to your friend”
    So I guess I wasn’t being very honest with him….

  136.  #136Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    I feel a guy WANTS his girl to be first. If she accepts not being first, I’m afraid he will not accord her much value. 2nd best, 10th best, same difference. Only N°1 means something – everything, in fact.

  137.  #137Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Jennifer, big hugs. My post went up before reading yours, and I feel afraid it might feel like rubbing it in. I suffer from the exact same mindset as you – whyever should I be first? I’m a big girl, I’m generous, I’m understanding, I can wait my turn, a

  138.  #138Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    oops…..and be deferential to age or relatives …. But all the same, I KNOW IT’S TRUE: I SHOULD BE FIRST WITH MY MAN. I want someone who wants the best, so he must consider me the BEST or it can’t work either for him or me. xxxoooo

  139.  #139Flipper on December 10, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    PS Allow yourself to FEEL THE ANGER that’s surely there – it will helpyou lift your head up so B can see you and feel you, so he’d never dream of not showing you off, much less not introducing you.

  140.  #140Jennifer on December 10, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    well Flipper…I don’t even really put that much thought behind it.
    I just kinda stand back and wait for the crumbs…if there are any.
    Yeah I’m working on feeling the anger.
    B used to complain…that whenever I would have an issue with something he did that he felt like my family was giving me a hard time so I was just taking it out on him.

    Well, he was almost right. Feeling second best started with them. There are a thousand reasons why I think they do that. But the reality is that it doesn’t matter WHY the do it or IF they do it. It only matters that i feel that they do.
    So that is why when I feel like I don’t come first with B…..
    ie the porno comes before me or the parents get introduced before me or the motorcycle show happens first…
    I just try to suck it up. I hide how I feel cause it won’t change anything.
    It never changed with my family so I don’t think it could ever change with him.
    I just am second place.

    I ended up leaving because I spent 6 years being second place and then …. he lied to me and I figured I was going to be second place all my life…at least I didn’t have to be lied to.

    So then he said he wanted to try.
    Now he’s put me out of top spot again, I guess. There could still be something going on that I don’t know. But I feel kind of ambivalent about it right now.
    I could just be burned out…I’ve been on a rollercoaster then last hour or so.

  141.  #141Mary on December 10, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    jennifer, i’m feeling sad that after six years there is still so much angst in this relationship. i’m not one to talk tho. !!!! so, sad for you. sad for me. sad that relationships can be so amazing at times and so unsteady sometimes.

    “I stood with my head down feeling ignored and embarrassed to even be there.” awwwwww… i feel like i’m your mother now. do you think your guy just isn’t good at introductions? some people just aren’t. not to give him the benefit of the doubt, but to give him the benefit of the doubt! haha. i mean, sometimes it’s appropriate to throw in a little slack. here and there. just for fun.

  142.  #142alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    ok so i was thinking to myself WTF. this rori stuff isn’t “working.” how come i am still attached to my exes who are Clearly showing up as blech for me.




    STOP IT.


    so i have decided i am going to go on every dreadful date with any dreadful man that asks me. the next guy who asks me i will say yes ok. rrrrrrggggghhhhhh. i feel RESISTANT.

    because i already know these men are not my guy and that is why i am screening them out.



    so get ready sirens for the wonderful world of dating ala alias girl style. rgh. blech.


    and I FEEL GREAT.



  143.  #143Melanie on December 10, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    I feel giggly reading Alias Girl’s post. I want a strong, masculine, sexy, super-smart, fun, romantic, protective, funny, loving, wise, TEXTING man. 🙂 TN man feels this way to me.

    I love that AG would rather have a toxic player gangster man than a PUSSY whiny girly texting man.

    I love that all of us can have different preferences about communication methods.

    I love this: “i want him to feel like, WOW, im with her.” I want him to feel like that too! 🙂

    I fel happy and hopeful about AG’s description of the man and the life that she wants. 🙂

  144.  #144alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    i might even ask them out.


    hey would you like to go out on weds?

    hey can i come over right now?

    hey do you wanna buy me pretty things?

  145.  #145Mary on December 10, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    here’s a cool website about love. watch it if you want to feel sentimental. one of the last sayings is this: just because someone doesn’t love you in the way you want them to doesn’t mean that they don’t love you everything they’ve got. http://www.studiorainville.com hit on delovely portfolio

  146.  #146alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    i feel FREE.

    I feel the taste of freedom

    and acceptance

    what wonderful wonderful feelings to sink into and SAVOR


    i am a superbadassgoddess.

    hey, do you want to rub my back?

    Hey don’t you love the way i have my way with you?

    yes you do. mmmmmyyuuummm.

  147.  #147alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    i just invited my EX over (who is currently broken up with his baby mama)



    WHat am i doing?????!!!!!

    whatever i want.

    whatever the freak i want.

  148.  #148Mary on December 10, 2009 at 8:26 pm


    powerful stuff. you’ve got me going big time. i’m agreeing with you! first i was… yes! i’ve got the perfect man! then i’m… oh! he’s like the player gangster man. which i also do very much prefer because of all that maleness.

    i just booked myself right out of town. the other guy i’ve been dating is coming back on monday. i just can’t juggle these two. i can start over and juggle some new guys. circular date like crazy. because they wouldn’t feel they had a claim on me. but these two are in too deep, and i am too.

    and i need to study, and i keep allowing these guys to take away my study time, so i’m going here for two weeks: http://www.bbcanada.com/12467.html?showpage=3

    i know it’s a cop-out. but i have to study. i need my real estate license so i can get to work. so no distractions now. i can learn more about boundaries later.

    in ideas how to tell them?

  149.  #149alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    oh yes this is good news. my #1 from cutie pie heaven just emailed and asked for my phone number. GOOD.

    and then some other time i can ask my other ex to come visit me.

    and then some other guy from cutie pie heaven will show up and THEN I WILL BE AT BABY STEP NUMBER ONE IN THIS CONCEPT CALLED CIRCULAR DATING.



    and i feel like i am going to have diarhea and i know that is too much information but that is what often happens when i get acutely nervous.

    i have so many stories that nobody will ever want to hear about this weird thing my body does when it gets acutely nervous.

    funny stories but since they involve diarhea they seem to be off limits to most people’s sensibility. and rightly so probably.

  150.  #150alias girl on December 10, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    mary seems pretty straight forward. i feel confused.

  151.  #151Mary on December 10, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    no. you’re actually helping me. this is what i need to do, too. i just don’t know how to separate from beautiful ex man. i need to, i need to, i need to!

    i think…

  152.  #152Daria on December 10, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    maybe he sux at introductions, or maybe he doesnt

    but if it FEELs BAD to me

    and that is not something to ignore AT ALL.

    and if it feels good to me, that is not something to ignore either

  153.  #153Mary on December 10, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    actually, i’m being pulled in every single direction that everyone is going. it’s like i have no direction of my own. how to get it? i don’t even know. i’m making it up. i don’t even know if i want to be a realtor. i’m just doing it as a backup plan. and then what? i don’t know.

    the only thing that’s helping me right now is that part in targeting mr. right where rori says to name a problem. then she says okay, create that into a want. then i’m expanding that into taking my want and figuring out what i don’t want. and from those two things, i’m trying to figure out what i’m feeling.

    is it so hard for everyone else?

  154.  #154Daria on December 10, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Mary –

    lol yes!

  155.  #155Mary on December 10, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    for you, too?

  156.  #156Daria on December 10, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Yes definitely. I feel like a lethargic quicksanded person when it comes to “doing” stuff that “makes money”

  157.  #157Mary on December 10, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    love exploring this but i’m on the phone!

  158.  #158Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    tell me how you do it, daria. you always know your feelings.

  159.  #159Daria on December 10, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    i feel confused Mary? Do what?

    Make money? Right now i feel limited aobut it…

  160.  #160Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    okay. hehe haha. my friend and i have just found the perfect solution for my problem. the two guys can have joint custody! i go to one house for a week, and another house the next week, and so on, and so on.

  161.  #161Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    no, tell me how you know what your feeling are. mine are pretty deep inside…

  162.  #162Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    i mean, i don’t even know how it can be talked about. but it seems easy for you. i feel envious!

  163.  #163Daria on December 10, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    no Mary. You stay at home, or go out on your fun adventures. They ask for your time. This is circular dating. And they come to you. Not you to them.

    I have been practicing finding and saying my feelings here on Rori’s site for about 2 years now? or a year and a half at least.

    At first I didn’t understand what a feeling was. hehe.

    One way that works for me is to pause, relax to myself, all by myself in the moment, like not around people… and then ask myself, privately secretly, if there was no one around, (there isnt) … what is it that I’m feeling.

    Also helps me that theres really only 4 basic feelings (I choose one of these)

    : Sad, Angry, Glad, Afraid.

    So I relax my shoulders, and a little twinge comes up from my belly, and I feel a feeling… and ask myself what I’m feeling and let myself answer.

    Right now I feel: afraid.

    Ps it doesnt have to make ‘sense.’

  164.  #164Daria on December 10, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    I love my feeling afraid. And i feel sad. I love my feeling of sadness.

    Then I say / write that I love my feeling.

  165.  #165Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    okay. i’m gonna do that now…

    i feel glad!

    but i don’t know why!

    something is making me smile, tho. it feels good.

    i’m gonna go to this place, and i’m gonna get this test out of the way. and then i can think about other things! i feel happy about that! this test is bringing me down. dragging me down. and all i have to do is study.

    but here, there are christmas parties, and i say okay, i’ll go. and then there’s cooking, and shopping for a present that will just be donated away anyway, and then six hours have gone by. so i have to leave if i want to get to the goal. and november was all about three different guys.

    so i’m gonna leave, and i’m gonna get to my goal. i’m getting on my horse now.

  166.  #166Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    i love my glad feelings!

  167.  #167Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    and now i feel scared that i won’t be happy. maybe i won’t get to the goal. what about that? maybe i’ll take the test and not pass it. and i used to be so smart in school! but what do i have to prove? who even cares? i do! yes, and i’m happy about that!

    wow. this sounds like i’m a kindergartener talking. doesn’t it? i feel humiliated, talking like this.

  168.  #168Mary on December 10, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    but i love to hear about your lethargy, your quicksandedness.

  169.  #169Tina on December 10, 2009 at 11:01 pm


  170.  #170Tina on December 10, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Terry I feel happy to hear you are working this all out here.

  171.  #171Daria on December 10, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    Mary! You sound beautiful! I feel sad that you feel humiliated… yes it does feel scary…


  172.  #172Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 12:15 am

    I have only read half the post and I had to scroll down and make a comment to:

    Gina, becareful
    I see a players trait. 2 big flags for me(my point of view)
    1.This is the first date and he is stroking your check and touching you in a romantic way.
    2. he says he is trying to make time for relationships
    and all the other promises.
    What I predict an imaginary relationship. If this was your first date shouldn’t he get to know you first? Know who you are. Your hopes and dreams ETC.
    It seems like a play to get you into bed and than he will be exciting at first and lots of attention than he won’t call for 2 weeks or e-mail you etc. and you see him less and less… Maybe only when he needs to get his rocks off. I predict 1 or 2 nights a week. Maybe spend one night what ever.
    Hold out! DOn’t give him any sex. See if it is you he comes back for. The Real You

  173.  #173Daria on December 11, 2009 at 12:21 am

    whoa i feel shocked! I super duper disagree!

  174.  #174Daria on December 11, 2009 at 12:21 am

    red flags are like: you feel weird, you feel bad

  175.  #175Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 12:21 am

    It seems in this generation that us girls give in to sex way to early in the relationship.
    It’s like we think that giving sex first is how you get the relationship.( Just like Rori teaches)
    That is so backward thinking.
    How do find out what this man is all about. And how do we teach him how to treat us. And show him why he should chose us and more important why we should chose him. My mom always said that you can tell a man by how he acts when he deals with strings of Christmas lights. If he gets mad and throws them or is patient and works with the lights and not against them

  176.  #176Daria on December 11, 2009 at 12:22 am

    touching my cheek and wanting to be with me feels good!!

    though it can feel scary if i wasnt used to receiving from a man

  177.  #177Daria on December 11, 2009 at 12:29 am

    I feel big and evil and bullyish! it feels not good!

    I feel bad! Like I just go around crushing everyones voice and saying No you cant say that. no you cant say that. I disagree. im looking for things to disagree with.

    I love my big oafish oagrish self.

    I feel triggerd of school where i knew how to do stuff and tryina get my group members to listen to me and i got labeled BOSSY by the teachers and stuff. but i knew the answers….

    aack i feel awkward and unfitting and cruel and insensitive like im slapping ppl with flippers and sweeping everything off the table wioth my gestures and yelling at people and saying mean things and they feel bad and resent me and i dont even know


    it feels like tension and frozeness

    i feel shocked! i feel shocked!!

    I feel ikcy i LOVE MY ICKY FEELING

    i love that people say i dont know where im going and i dont look around me and back up into people and step on peoples feet and i have my mouth hanging open and looking at the clouds
    and im NOT SENSITIVE aach this is not true i love my icky feelings!!! i loveme thank you thank you thank you

    i love feeling like a social clumsy

    i am the clumsy goddess. i am the stupidass goddess.

    i am the oafish goddess.

    i love me i love me i loveme

  178.  #178Daria on December 11, 2009 at 12:31 am

    i feel angry! i feel dismissive! i feel judgemental! I feel scared! i feel sad.!!! i feel sad! i feel like crying!! i love my feelings i love my sad feelings i love my sad feelings i love my sad feelings…


    i feel rejected i love my rejected feelings i feel inadequate i love my inadequate feelings

    i feel anger i feel anger i feel judgement i love my judgement i love my anger i love my anger i love my anger i love my dismissiveness i love all my feelings i love my coldness i feele cold hearted i love my coldhearted FEEELINGS.

  179.  #179alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 12:53 am

    yeah i can be coldhearted sometimes. usually when i am it doesn’t bother me because i am busy being cold hearted.

    so the EX said he would call in about an hour and after an hour and fifteen minutes i left the house.

    i went driving and i went down this street i never drive down and i stopped and parked and started walking. and this egyptian man started chatting me up. and i asked if his wife was originally from egypt as well (i had seen the ring) and he said “oh, i’m not married. (pause, possible backpedal) well I am separated,” he said.

    “hmm technically that’s still married,” i said

    “well, not really,” he said.

    “well, the government seems to think so. the law seems to think so. and i think so. technically you are still married.”

    i left him to continue my walk a little bit later.

    and so i walked. and then i went to pet on this dog named Chester. and then it started raining and i decided i was going to but a lottery ticket and some man came up while i was petting chester and started making conversation so we chatted and then i told him i wanted to buy a lotto ticket.

    and then he wanted to check out the blueberries and while we were looking at the blueberries i said “wow look the raspberries are such a good price. ”

    and he said “shall i get some and we will eat them?” so he went and washed them and bought and we ate them while we stood at the lottery machine trying to get it to work. he had given me the dollar for the ticket. but the machine spit out a dummy ticket that said $1 refund because the machine was kaput.

    and then he drove me to my car because it was still raining. and then he said maybe he could help me find a job. anyway he took my number.

    and earlier while i was window shopping i asked myself how do i feel? how do i feel about being stood up? and i honestly didn’t feel much. well i felt happy that it got me out of the house on my little adventure. so i felt happy about that. and yeah even now i’m saying how do i feel? i feel compassion and understanding. people are who they are. i am who i am.

    it is what it is. in fact, actually, writing this i feel kind of glad he is not here right now. and interesting i also feel a little disappointed. yes. ok yeah. that feels about right. i could swing with it either way.

    wow. WOW. I AM A BAD ASS SUPER ROCKSTAR GODDESS. WOW. WOW. holy crap. I feel very amazed at myself.


    i feel happy to be going on LOTS OF DATES. cutie pie from online is calling me tomorrow. this other guy has my number though i feel unsure if he just wants to be a good samaritan and help me find a job? or if he is interested.? i feel he is interested. he said i was beautiful. and he did go out of his way to make conversation.

    OH by the way. i used to totally MISS THIS. men who say random things ARE OFTEN TRYING TO START A CONVERSATION. and if i give them enough time they will get their bearings and continue making conversation.

    it used to throw me off in the past. i’d be like, why is this dude saying this totally random thing to me? like who cares? what is he talking about? ok, whatever, bye.

    NO. often he is trying to just start a conversation and will just throw whatever comes into his mind out there so that i (or whoever goddess this is happening to) don’t just walk away.

    so now i am a little more clued into this.


  180.  #180Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Red Flags of a man promising me the moon on the first date. Before he knows me.
    It feels wonderful to be treated like a goddess. But I am after a long term type relationship. It does not feel good to me to have a man in my bed once a month and just wait around for him to call until he says he wants to see me again. A relationship is just not in the bedroom it is wanting to be with a person and feel good in their presence no matter what you are doing.
    In order for a man to really treat you like a goddess he has to know you.
    If he decides on the first date to treat me like a goddess than I think it is the superficial goddess of looks and desire not real love that he is interested in.

  181.  #181alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 12:58 am

    or they’ll ask a question.

    oh or they’ll compliment a scarf or piece of jewelry i am wearing.

    they’re JUST TRYING TO START A CONVERSATION. not always but often.

  182.  #182alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 12:59 am

    wendy some men propose on the first meeting with a woman and they live happily ever after. i have met more than one person who personally knows people this has happened with.

    one was a girl’s own parents.

  183.  #183Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Well me I would like to be treated like a Goddess on the first date and from then onward. it feels scary to believe that he may actually want and like treating me like a goddess. it feels scary that he may actually be a good man… but thats what the circular dating is for… to allow him and allow ME to let my walls down, and allow myself to RECEIVE the Goddess treatment… and practice receiving.

    I used to think a man was inauthentic if he wanted to buy me taco bell. like really you want to Buy ME food? wtf ? you must be a trick

  184.  #184alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:02 am

    this man tonight was treating me like a goddess. why? BECAUSE I AM A GODDESS.

    and he recognizes that. and if a man is in the market for a goddess and recognizes said goddess upon meeting her than he is going to treat her lovely like that.

    in my experience and belief system.

  185.  #185Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:04 am

    AG i feel so inspired about driving to a road ive never been to before and getting out and walking randomly! what what!?

  186.  #186Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:04 am

    wat waat wat wat wat!

    Please share more of these dating yourself ideas they are so inspiring and I feel like my possibilities open up!! thank you!!

  187.  #187Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:06 am

    wow. i LOVE this story! i love it because my ex-husband used to be so late bringing the kids back. i would wait and wait and wait. patiently, too. and then one day, it was 6:05. he was supposed to be there with them at 6:00. so i just left and went to the store. he called. furious. “where are you.” “i beg your pardon? where were you?” so he wasn’t late after that.

    and your adventure! i love the attention you’re giving to strangers. but… i feel worried for you. (i love this worry! ha!) going around in a car with this new guy. who knows who he is?

    i love what you said to the married man.

    “hmm technically that’s still married,” i said

    “well, not really,” he said.

    “well, the government seems to think so. the law seems to think so. AND I THINK SO. technically you are still married.”

    “i left him to continue my walk a little bit later.”


  188.  #188Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 1:07 am

    I agree with you both (what year was it when the guy proposed to the girl.) I do think that you should always be treated like a goddess. What I am talking about is him stroking your face and telling you he is getting a a special place just to be able to be in a relationship. You have to read Ginas story at the start of this blog.

  189.  #189Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:11 am

    i just have to ask. when you got home, had your ex called?

  190.  #190alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:12 am

    daria i just knew that i needed to leave the house. i needed to not be available to a man that is not on time with his word.

    so i left and i got in the car and i was going to drive down to the skate rink but it closes at ten and i knew it would have been not very fulfilling. so as i was headed there anyway for lack of a better idea i just decided heck i should drive through beverly hills because it’s fancy. and since i am starting to live the fancy life myself i just spontaneously decided to turn down this street and then i noticed it had shops and stuff. (Like most of LA) and i parked and started walking. well actually i had wanted to stop earlier before i got to the street with shops because there was this really cool building with all these lights and i wanted to go check it out but there was no parking and a good song was on the radio anyway so i kepy driving. and then i found the street with the shops.

    so i just started walking. but it was such a non trendy, non hip little street. more like old folks in beverly hills kind of place. but restaurants and stuff were still open. and i like to window shop. and i love any place i have never been before.

    and then i saw this sign in the window for koo koo roo and they have this contest where you name their chicken head logo and you could win A FREE MEAL AT KOO KOO ROO EVERY WEEK FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. and heck that would sure work out nicely. so i got on my phone and entered the contest.

    so it went like that. just one moment to the next.

  191.  #191alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:18 am

    mary he did not call. but that is him. and i am me. and it is what it is.

    wendy i did read gina’s story.

    i feel awful for someone to be so adamant in their suspicions and negativity to want to douse someone else’s enthusiasm or good date.

    i wouldn’t want someone doing that to me. i would feel furious and angry. EVEN if what you said turned out to be accurate. I WOULD FEEL FURIOUS.

    person a: hey i just got a new job i am happy about.

    person b: oh that job sucks and everything will go bad for you, trust me.


  192.  #192Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:19 am

    NIce –

    I am inspired. This man went to a club with music i like and he was tryna get me to go. and now i think i will. its 12 20 hehe. but im going now. gonna get dressed in about 5

  193.  #193alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:19 am

    although hours later and having washed my hands numerous times my hand slightly still smells of chester. he was a very dirty dog. but really really sweet.

  194.  #194Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 1:22 am

    After re reading Gina’s 2 posts I realized that she never said anything about it being a first date. And perception is everything. What does it mean to be treated like a goddess? Is it the same as being treated like a lady? To me being treated like a goddess is intimate and not something on the first date.

  195.  #195Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:25 am

    well, gina. i must say that i just read your story again. it sounded pretty much like a nice date to me. i didn’t automatically think: player. what stood out to me was “we both came from intact families.” that’s nice.

    but wendy. the other guy i’m seeing – besides my ex fiancee, which i am now going to refer to as my guy – came on really strong. that made me not trust him. i felt fear there. he jumped in with both feet and started telling me that he’d been looking for 18 years to find me. that was a red flag, just as you’re suggesting.

  196.  #196alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:28 am

    To YOU wendy. YOU. we are all different. is great to have your feelings about it. Like “oh i feel suspicious. i feel uncomfortable. if it was me i would want to take my time etc”

    rori has said it before the best way to respond to other people’s post but i forget how she says it. basically she suggests to stick to one’s own feeling messages and try and stay in our own feelings,

    giving advice or warnings is masculine and has a greater possibility of defensiveness and triggering. also it is focussing on other person rather than our own feelings.

    certainly you are free to do what you want. i am just relaying rori’s suggestions.

    also it is great to practice more feeling messages when people get triggered. i feel compassion and supportive.

  197.  #197alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:29 am

    be safe and have fun daria!

  198.  #198Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:35 am

    i have an older friend who lives here, and she’s always talking about going out alone on her “magical mystery tours.” like yours, alias girl. she meets so many people when she goes! with no purpose in mind but to spend time.

  199.  #199Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:44 am

    ok. i changed my mind about going. but i did try a bunch of nice outfits. im feeling pretty good

  200.  #200Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:45 am

    Ooh… i was reading through some old posts and saw these comments and i feel so much fear that i don’t know what to do with it. I love my guy. But… he is unstable. That’s it. He just is. But I want to MAKE it work.

    Danielle says:

    I understand how Linda must be feeling. I once ended a relationship because I felt that he was unstable and wanted to marry me because of the circumstances, but could change his mind at anytime. I decided to end this relationship while still in love with him because I started loving myself more and it became clear to me that he was not the one. It was hard at the time, but a couple of years later I can say that I was better off.
    Great post Rori… looking forward to the next one.

    Friday, 12 September 2008 @ 8:50am
    Rori Raye says:

    Danielle, Thank you so much for telling us your inspirational personal story – It helps so much to hear you say that even though you were in love with him, you were able to stay in touch with what you were truly feeling about the relationship, and about what you really wanted – and that leaving him actually got you moving toward what you really want. Look forward to more of your personal story and your insights. Love, Rori

  201.  #201Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:46 am

    when i come home from a date my entire closet is on my bed

  202.  #202Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:47 am

    hehe i feel amused. I actually felt triggered by “we both come from intact families” i felt weirded out by that and judgemental and kinda paralyzed and afraid of being judged. but i felt really good about teh overall date description

  203.  #203Daria on December 11, 2009 at 1:49 am

    I wanted to go meet some more guys at this club, not this guy… i wouldve felt resentful driving jsut to see him and i wouldn’t have done it… but then i kinda talked myself out of it, cuz i didnt want to feel sleepy driving home. i love myself

  204.  #204Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 1:52 am

    Alais, I disagree with you on the fact that a friend should be able to warn you if they sense danger. Not just let you fall on your face. I am not that type to rain on anyones parade. It just seems like everyone here likes to bash on men for treating them bad and set themselves up to becoming a victim and than get together with the girls and say whoa is me for not even looking at the signs. And if someone points them out to me they are just trying to ruin my fun. Maybe we should be less concerned with having fun for the moment and more concerned with having fun for a lifetime with a partner who loves me for who I am. I am almost 50 years old and I have seen the typical bar scene played out a million different ways by men looking to just get laid. And I have known a few players who would use girls with come-on lines like that. They were great masters at how to work at KEEPING the relationship imaginary. Think what you want of me. I was only trying to help.

  205.  #205Mary on December 11, 2009 at 1:55 am

    i love myself too. and i love R.

    and i love ALL OF YOU.

  206.  #206alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 1:55 am

    i feel amused at ‘the entire closet on the bed’ haha i relate.

    i remember i went out on a date with my other ex a while back and we came back to my place and he’s like “what’s all this?” hahaha. he was referring to my entire closet on me bed. hahaha

  207.  #207alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:00 am

    wendy i feel understanding. i don’t want you angry at me. i don’t want to make you feel bad. if i made you feel bad i am sorry.

  208.  #208Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:02 am

    Wendy I hear men bashing in that comment, rather than in “everyone here”. I feel defensive.

    Personaly I don’t blame men for much of anything. I love men.

    I hear that you sense danger in a man treating a woman like a Goddess on the first date, but that is just what we are practicing getting used to… because it does feel scary… and we can allow ourselves to receive good stuff without freaking out.

    My guess of your feelings about it are: wow Gina, I feel afraid hearing about this man touching you and telling you he wants a relationship.. that feels scary and I feel mistrustful

    I personally don’t feel worried or think that he was in any way a player… if anything he sounds like a really honest together guy… a fortune 500 ceo whos into the law of attraction and wants to provide for himself and other people… sounds like a “nice” guy to me.

    Ps the “bar scene” is not a universal thing. also Gina was on a date not on “the bar scene”

    i feel really pushed back reading the comment.

    I feel like attacking and defending and I feel… mmm.. angry? I feel angry.

    Just because you’ve known a few players says nothing about Gina’s situation.

    We use our feelings to protect ourselves. ACtually i would feel glad if i heard feelings from you…

    Im assuming you felt : concerned about Gina, and afraid

    but i don’t know because there were no feelings shared, just ideas about how your personal experiences seem to project on Gina’s date

    so reading that instead of feelings i feel angry

  209.  #209Mary on December 11, 2009 at 2:03 am


  210.  #210Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:05 am

    I mean we can use our feelings of feeling bad or good to warn us of red flags…

    but the same situation on the outside can look and feel different to different people…

    I got the idea that Gina felt good. That is plenty to keep her safe

    if he’s a player, she will start to feel bad and I feel confident she will notice

    What Im saying is, I feel glad that you shared your feelings of feeling concerned and wary and afraid (even though you did not write them). I feel angry at teh way it was expressed, i felt defensive and angry and disconnected (no feeling messages)

    I too would have shared my concerned feelings about someones “parade” I have done it before

  211.  #211alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:13 am

    yes situations on the outside can look one way but the people involved may be experiencing exactly what they want to experience.

    my paradise is another woman’s nightmare.

    as i was walking tonight i passed this big architect firm all with glass windows and i could see right in and all the projects they were working on and i got this feeling in my entire body of UGH how horrible i would feel to be an architect like it is a complete NONMATCH for me.

    and yet most of those people are probably THRILLED to be doing their dream job and creating structures.

  212.  #212Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:19 am

    i feel sad!

    i have some bladder issue going on… kinda like i did a couple years ago… but it had been cured!

    aw. i felt so scared today… my acupuncturist said he’ll take care of it, but it didnt’ instantly go away. i dont’ want to wait.

    and i think my tummy is bloated cuz of it… im gonna eat garlic… that and acupuncture is what cured it last time… but i had it for a year and a half before it was cured!

    its not painful… but its definitely something i can tell is going on…

    i feel sad

    this makes me feel worried about having sex now… actualy i dont feel interested in sex much at all knowing i have this bladder issue. shoot i dont even feel interested in Talking about sex


    i feel disappointed that i have this issue… i feel guilty like its my fault … and ashamed that my body is weak… and the feelings are not logical and i feel sad… i feel guilty for feeling this way… i love all my feelings…

    i feel glad i no longer feel out of control powerless like i did this morning…

    i feel kinda weak…

    i want this over NOW… not next week when the herbs get ordered… wtf i dont want this to go on for another week…


    im taking round the clock echinacea extract from gaia herbs, but not really noticing much… it hink the garlic helped more than anything…

    ill just keep eating garlic and drinking lots of water tomorrow

    no sugar

    the acupuncturist said its weak kidneys and waek galldbladder… heat and dampness… but i feel suspicious… heat could be from my echinacea… and i dont feel heat… or dampness actually… but that could be cuz all my ehat and dampness is inside

    i do feel glad im not hurting… but i feel worried… i feel sigh i love my sigh

    i love me period even though i feel like i hate mysefl rite now i love me


  213.  #213alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:24 am

    daria try going pee immediately after you have sex next time.

  214.  #214Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:25 am

    its like when i have a problem a part of me believes i must worry about the problem constantly until its CLEARLY OVER

    and it doesn’t think its safe to let go of thinking about the problem or to feel better

    And I LOVE THAT PART OF ME and i gave her lots of hugs but i dont want to believe that anymore…

    and i dont believe shell listen to me either

    shes way too stuck

    i think i learned this from my dad

    i lvoe my feelings of fast movingness, sleepiness, desperation

    I am the Desperate Goddess

    I am the Falling into a Pit Goddess

    I am the Silent Screaming Goddess

  215.  #215alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:28 am

    thank you universe for bringing a fantastic idea into my mind about a project that excites me and brings me fun amounts and piles of money. or these two things can be separate. either way.

    but thank you. i feel excited to have something excited to be pouring my energy into and working together with other people on it.

    and i also feel excited to play in my pile of money.

    thank you.

  216.  #216Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Ag will do. I think it happend cuz i waent to pee twice During sex dammit.. cuz i think i was maybe getting hit on my orgasm spot but it was making me want to pee instead. And it was a lil hard hitting

    the good thing is, its possible i had dormant bacteria in my bladder wall from awhiles back and they just got shook loose, so in a way thats good cuz now i get a chance to cure them


    i also think that i got new bacteria in because at the beginning i felt irritated

    next time i will be for sure be drinking cranberry juice after all that sex

    but this time i just washed and went to bed… and i didnt drink much after either



    I feel worried that the bacteria traveled up my tubes to my kidneys and thats why i dont have bladder symptoms but rather cooler and clearer pee with no symptoms…

    I WANT to feel healthy and cured and IMMUNE to this!

    I knew I shouldn’t have drank hawaiian punch or whatever! too! i barely had a sip. Next time its cranberry fo shiggidy

    except now cranberry didnt seem to do much… fuckin fuckers


  217.  #217Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:33 am

    I feel surprised and relieved to be writing this.

    Angels: please cure me of this FAST and give me immunity against it. And please give me th econfidence to cure myself and the faith that my body will cure itself and the ability to change my beliefs and my life in the way I want THANK YOU

    THANK YOU THANK YOU angels thank you!

  218.  #218Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:35 am

    And thank you God for allowing me to feel so much more at ease than I did this morning. I feel so scared sometimes and I feel so scared of feeling so scared. Thank you.

    I love you.

  219.  #219alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:38 am

    ok i don’t want to be intrusive.

    but if people have anal sex they shouldn’t go from back to front without washing first. not even a little. ever. it actually can be dangerous.

    also when one goes to the bathroom wipe from front to back.

    i feel weird.

    also try to go pee when you need to go pee. holding it causes the bladder to stretch incorrectly.

    i refuse to believe this can not be solved and prevented somehow.

  220.  #220alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:42 am

    barbara hershey is much older than that hunky boyfriend of hers that she has dated for years.

  221.  #221Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:43 am

    hehe I didn’t have anal sex and I do go pee and all that stuff… and wipe from front to back and etc etc

    I believe it can be prevented like me drinking cranberry juice and being careful of being irritated at the urethra area.

    but you know what weirdly enough ive thought that when this happened a few years ago it was because i had anal sex and then had sex. it felt weird and it felt disgusting and i got sick with a bladder infection and i dont think it got cleared up properly with the antibiotics. and ive felt realy guilty for not standing up for myself at that time with my ex and saying no to that. it was the first and only time i had anal sex and ew it feels disgusting even now to think that i let that go in my nani wow

    but we did see it on a porno

    anyway i feel compelled to share this here i guess its like coming up for healing or something

    i feel tightened up and afraid someone will find these words and hold them against me wow.

  222.  #222alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:51 am

    i feel ANGRY. it is weird. health is one of my big things. when someone has a health issue it just want to solve it and cure it and heal it and restore them to 100%.

    it’s a weird personality trait. maybe having to do with my enegram thing or whatever that test was that we took. or maybe just having to do with why i am on the planet. i am a very big believer of healing.

    i feel intrusive though and it happens with anybody who mentions a health issue with me and i have to kind of just clamp my mouth shut and sit on my hands at some point or i will be all up their face and writing reports for them about my research findings.

    ok. i feel triggered.

    i feel confident daria will find her solutions without my busybodiness.

  223.  #223Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:51 am

    Thats right do you hear me! I want to be healed! I had ANAL SEX dammit! wow I feel sooo weird. And I said I wanted to never try it except maybe wiht my husband and I let him talk and push me into it dammit. aNd i wouldn’t really regret it except for the gross part and for me getting sick and now look at this i feel sick again from just having regular sex… dammit i feel angry ! i feel angry i feel angry i feel angery i feel angry!!
    stupid fuckin dumbass!!!
    i feel angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


  224.  #224alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:53 am

    or you could just tell the guy look i know you’re already clean and i don’t want to offend it’s just i am really susceptible to this bladder thing so would it be ok if we both just washed up real quick before we get down and dirty?


    i can’t stop. i feel embarrassed.

  225.  #225Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 2:55 am

    Daria, I am really sorry that you feel that way. I had to go back and re-read what I wrote and I feel confused.
    We use feelings to protect ourselves. What if our feelings is actually our ego, because we like the attetion so much that a man is giving us that we cant see the red flags. And I did feel total concern for Gina. Or I wouldn’t have said anything. But I thought this was the first date. I would feel disrespected if a man did not treat me like a lady on the first date. But to be told that he still needed to make space to be in a relationship. And he wants to get a place in the city is telling me that he wants to set up a place to meet me and being a CEO means he can afford it. Almost all of his words could lead to a toxic situation And since this is what this blog was started on. I had the negative feelings already started. I feel hurt that you think I was being mean. I feel that I was only trting to help Gina. After all no relationship was mentioned and she did not say if she felt he was special. I just sensed that she had her head in the clouds. I only told her to hold out before she gave in and had sex with him. And I told her why I felt that way. I was new here and did not know the feeling rule!
    I feel that to be a goddess is to honor yourself and be true to her heart. I feel wonderful when I open up to a man that i love and respect. I feel that circular dating is a wonderful way to help me find the goddess in me. The true goddess, not the ego goddess. I felt threatened that I had to describe what I knew about people (or bad men)That is a feeling to say I felt something. I felt that I was being attacked because I had concerns about they way this man was wording things. I did not feel any true emotion coming from his words.
    and I feel my character was attacked. I feel hurt.

  226.  #226Daria on December 11, 2009 at 2:56 am

    alias girl i too am mucho into health and experience some of that Strong desire to Make People Better.

    which some healers keep telling me is all off, cuz we cant make people better

    but if we cant make people better than wtf. i thought we were supposed to be able to do what we want and i want to make peopel better. starting with me.

    The thing is… these symptoms i have are mucho unusual and ive been researching them but they seem to be only daria symptoms. So I have tried a lot of stuff last time including cranberry juice, pills, that special sugar that flushes them out even up to every hour taking it, echinacea, you name it.

    what did it is acupuncture, they kept telling me low kidney, and it will get better when my period is regular

    then i went to a new girl and on my second session she did acupuncture and i ate some garlic and drank water and all of a sudden i peed out and it burned (it hadnt been buring for like a year and half) and then it WAS OVER

    my pee returned to normal

    and now i am again experiencing mild pee symptoms as before

    so i am retrying echinacea, ive been doing it every two hours

    and i am also going ot eat garlic. i ate some today (raw) and i think it helped. it certainly had an effect.

    Im gonna eat garlic drink water nad go to acupuncture

    thats all i know

    i also know this magic acupuncture lady thats 150 a session, i can go to her in backup. she will look at her wooden box and do magic and amazing stuff, people swear (like my friends mom) she cures stuff like whoa…

  227.  #227alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:56 am

    oh this is good. maybe it has to do with anger and shame and releasing this will heal it.

    whatever —i tried anal sex before. i didn’t really like it. but if i did like it then it’s my business and who is someone else to judge what i do with my body?

    and anyway some people that’s ALL they have is anal sex. even women. some women only like anal.

    whatever floats people’s boats.

  228.  #228alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 2:59 am

    mmm yes that’s right. i am reminded now i was reading earnest holmes and he said we can’t heal people. we can only see them as whole. that’s what jesus did. he saw people as whole, not as needing healing. although certainly that is heresay because jesus never told me personally that’s how he worked his healing miracles.

  229.  #229alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:00 am

    in fact some woman wrote an entire book on her initiation and consequent love affair with anal sex called, “the Surrender”

  230.  #230Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:00 am

    Ag he was clean. i would have told him to wash pronto. not only that but we used condoms the entire time and frequently changed the condoms. it wasnt him.

    its rather me and feeling irritated mmm

    perhaps it could also be just simple inflamation…

    another theory i have is that perhaps its regular bacteria that is ok but that when it got in my bladder its actually causing issues in my bladder that is maybe my bladder / kidneys are sensitive to it

  231.  #231Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:06 am

    You need to take Acidophilis for your problem Daria
    It is the same thing that is in yogurt. echinacea is for colds and flu. I know… I used to work in a nutrition center. YOu can buy it by the bottle. Take 4 or 5 in the morning. drink a lot of water and take 2 before bed and than repeat next morning and bed time. You will feel perfect on 3rd day. If not take the same dose 2 more days. still don’t feel better. See a doctor

  232.  #232Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:08 am

    Wendy – i feel so much compassion. I felt defensive reading that comment. I definitely empathize with feeling concerned for someone and that it takes bravery to share that.

    i just don’t see how touching a woman’s face tenderly and telling her you are looking for a serious relationship is not treating her like a lady. To me it would feel good.

    sometimes our pasts make us OVERLY wary of receiving good stuff from a man, because we are afraid of being hurt. But being touched on our face and told that a man is interested in a relationship are good things and would feel good.

    And we are to follow our feelings, always. No worries about whether its really ego, or what. Our feelings are our compass is what Rori says. IF we were to go astray, we just get back on our horse again. Trust ourselves and our feelings. Our horse knows the way to the good stuff and the good stuff is all around us.

    I feel glad you shared your concern. I didn’t want to attack your character, I feel guilty. I did not stick 100% to feelings either… I felt really triggered and defensive and i felt like attacking, and I don’t want to do that. We are all working on our triggers. We are practicing for real life situations…

    When you say you felt total concern for Gina, I believe you and I feel glad that you expressed that.

    I would too, and I would feel good if someone expressed it for me.

  233.  #233Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:10 am

    Thanks Wendy! Ok acidophilus it will be then also.

    I bought some raw colostrum (its like cow first milk for baby) and drank it, it has mucho good bacteria in it. But i will be down to try some acidophilus too. I just don’t know which ones to try… I think most brands will have pretty much halfway dead useless stuff, some people say 90% of the average supplement potency is null.

    now i wish i had got some aciophilus from new sun. i like new sun.

  234.  #234Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:13 am

    seeing people as whole definitely works, that is if i can see people as whole.

    I learned some of that from Emo Trance , where one energy exercise was to picture the template of that person or thing, that is the Essence beauty of what they ARE.

    Aslo good for blessing food that is perhaps not organic or “junky” i just intend to get in touch with its essence.

  235.  #235alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:14 am

    Twenty one years.

    the age gap between barbara hershey and naveen andrews.


    so this makes my 16 years minute. or 13 years. depending on which ex.


    oh goodness, there i go with the exes again. ohmy thank goodness i am circular dating!!!!

  236.  #236alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:17 am

    oh junk food. i have cheesey crunchies in the cupboard. yum. i am going to have some right Now.

  237.  #237Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:17 am

    I feel guilty that maybe its cuz i had sex with a guy i am not in love with! But i WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH WHOEVER I DESIRE AND FEEL SEXY AND HEALTHY.

    And I choose this for myself thank you.

    I honor all of me! I thank all of me. Thank you bladder kidney pee and everything of me I LOVE YOU

    STraight up

  238.  #238alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:18 am

    i forgot about acidopholus. yes. good call, wendy!

  239.  #239Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:19 am

    I feel that you see something that he did not say. He said nothing about having a relationship with her. If he had said to me that he wanted to have the relationship than touched my face. I would feel cherished and special to him/ His words were evasive and not personal to her. I still feel that she needs to try and get more intimate with him on the level of his heart. not sexually and have her really feel than what her heart has to say.
    I agree, maybe this is just something she will have to go thru to be able to get to the next level on intimacy with someone and I had no right to say anything at all.

  240.  #240alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:22 am

    maybe the bladder thing is a psychological manifestation of guilt.

    yes i see goddess daria being aphrodite-ish and pure in her sexual pursuits.

  241.  #241Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:23 am

    I meant no harm to anyone tonight. I have been told in the past that I have extreme insight into things. I have even been accused of being a witch before. because of what I have been able to preceive from things. I just saw something that caused me alert. something That I usually am not wrong about

  242.  #242alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:24 am

    ah cheesey crunchies turn out to not be as satisfying as the thought of them. putting them back in the cupboard now.

  243.  #243Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:26 am

    Wendy you have a right to say whatever you want of course.

    I understood that he wants to have a relationship and that hes excited that she could be the woman to have it with (she said hes excited and planning the next date) so that felt good to me, I understood that he’s meaning a relationship to her. I did not interpert his words as evasive at all.

    Also she didnt’ say anything about getting sexual with him so i dono where that is coming from but my GUESS is that is something personal to you.

    Either way we are only guessing and projecting our own stuff! which is why its great for triggering and healing Ourselves.

  244.  #244Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:27 am

    Hey I am psychic too. Now I feel dread though. I feel like oh no this is not gonna work out. that doesnt feel good.

  245.  #245Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:28 am

    AG – LOL

    cheesy crunchy template would be like glowing grain, with cow uddery milk that turns into cheese maybe

    poor cheesy crunchies. LOVE

  246.  #246alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:28 am

    i am psychic. let me tell you being psychic can be a total nuisance when it comes to personal relationships sometimes.or any relationships.

    it wasn’t until i got older that it actually began to serve me.

    now i feel sometimes i have an unfair advantage. but oh well, the first half of my life was brutal because of it and now i get to reap benefits. good for me. where’s my lottery ticket?

  247.  #247Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:29 am

    Lol i am accused of being a witch too. But i kinda am. I am the magic goddess medicine woman.

  248.  #248Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:32 am

    I feel afraid! I love my fear! i love my fear! i love my fear!

    Wendy what we believe we will have and soemtimes we SHIFT our beliefs to believe that We will walk into joy and it will just simply be Joy.

    If I felt that way I would tell the man. wow I feel weird to hear you mention that you desire a relationship… i feel a little off balance… i dont want to move too fast… waht do you think

  249.  #249Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:32 am

    Comment on acidophilus. I know it works…. I have also heard about it not being strong enough. But I was also a pharmacy tech and we sold it on our self with other OTC drugs (over ther counter) but I wasn’t allowed to talk about it to customers. I used to get bad yeast infections and 3 pills a day and next day it is gone!. THEY HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ONES NOW. DOESN’T MATTER WHICH STRAIN JUST TAKE THEM. But keep themin the fridge or eat a lotof yogurt but you want to make sure that they company you get doesn’t kill the live cultures during the cooking process. Yoplait is a good one. just read the lael and look for the words LIVE CULTURES

  250.  #250alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:32 am

    well i’ve been accused of being a witch before too but more like the kind of witch that rhymes with b*tch.

    then i put a spell on their ass and cursed them


  251.  #251Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:34 am

    tomorrow i will make myself a candy that has no sugar in it but its sweet very strange.

    It will have Coconut oil. Cocoa powder. Hemp seeds (not like get hi hemp seeds, like the protein omega 3 kind)

    then i will mix it and put it in the fridge and in 15 minutes i will have yummy coconut chocoalte nut bar

  252.  #252Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:35 am

    Im a BITCH!


    ohohhhh i fuckin love that sooo mcuh i feel doubled over for some reason i finaly made it


    i love IT!!!!

    IMa BITCH GODDESS i need a drawing anda tshirt

    ooh furkcin a thats so powerful

  253.  #253alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:37 am

    are they ground hemp seeds. i feel confused put very perked up because i have a sweet tooth but don’t eat refined sugar.

    i feel amused that morning people are going to be wtf with all these comments. hahaha good morning morning sirens and across the world sirens!!!

  254.  #254Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:37 am

    Thanks Wendy! I feel excited to stuff myself silly with acidophilus tomorrow. I hope the garlic doesnt kill the poor acidophilus. But you are right. I will try one, I will pick one but i will definitely pick one.

    Ive already commiteed to getting the colostrum, but maybe this time the lil pills will do it too

  255.  #255alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:38 am


    i’m the whore goddess, b*tch.

  256.  #256Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:38 am

    they are not ground, they are shelled. These ones i have are from Nutiva and they are “better than flax” they certainly have omega 3 galore and MUcho protein listed.

    And when I eat them i do feel like I have mucho energy.

    They are sometimes called hemp hearts.

  257.  #257Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:38 am

    I feel that everyone would be a lot better if they developed their psychic abilities more. And lived more by spiritual things than by only stroking the ego.

  258.  #258Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:39 am

    AG – have you tried Agave syrup?

    its supposed to be sweet but low on glycemic index…

    mmm i want to try it havent yet.

    BUt i figure theres Some kind of sugar in it if its sweet but maybe its a Different sugar. maybe the bacteria dont eat agave.

    I certainly like agave in tequila, it feels healthier to my body than other alcohols.

  259.  #259Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:42 am

    Im a fuckin spiritual nut.

    I feel a lil worried and defensive. I don’t want to be one of those everyones that lives by stroking the ego.

    Although that now sounds nice. like the ego is a cat

    I stroke my ego. I love you ego… awww… purrrrr… stroking the ego

    now if thats not spiritual then kapow

    ill turn into the Bitch Goddess

    mmmm i feeel sooo goododfffffv

    i lvoe Goddess SELF STUFF

  260.  #260Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:45 am

    Ps Wendy I feel really uncomfortable and i feel a lil guilty and afraid:


    “I feel that everyone would be a lot better if they developed their psychic abilities more. ”

    this is a THOUGHT

    “I THINK that everyone would be a lot better if they developed their psychic abilities more.”

    AAACk i feel uncomfortable writing this. I feel like im pushing Wendy away. I feel alienated. I feel ICKY.


    also i feel like… judged and defensive reading it… aaack i feel tense and icky again I LOVE MY TENSENESS AND ICKYINESS
    gosh its a wonder i havent turned into a saint by now as much triggering i am doing to myself


  261.  #261alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:45 am

    yes sometimes i get ice cream that is agave sweetened.

    wendy, i used to have a very defensive antagonistic “stance”.

    it helped protect me from harm for a very long time until i learned a new way. my new way was rori’s tools and feeling messages. and now i know i am safe in the world. and i was able to drop my “stance” to a very large degree.

  262.  #262Daria on December 11, 2009 at 3:49 am

    OMg I feel teary

    my bitch goddess image search brought the following poem up

    jesus please read it folks i will reprint it hear i am going to spill tears over now:



    I pray to the light
    To the Highest Power
    The One
    And to my Guides
    To release me the ONE
    That will greet me and complete me
    Let him be
    A regal soldier of light
    A warrior with a gleam in his eye –
    Who always stands upright
    And is never shy,
    Who stands for what’s right
    And never hides.
    Let him care for me as his mother
    Sister, bestfriend, and
    As I will care for him
    as my father,
    soulmate, lover
    And brother.
    Let him care for me before himself and put me
    First before any other
    As I will do the same for our family
    And hold us always together
    Through sunny skies and stormy weather.
    Let him love me for who I am and love me unconditionally
    And see my potential and support my dreams
    Make him the man that will help make me what I am supposed to be
    Who will carry me in arms of eternal ecstasy
    And care for us until the next journey
    As I make him my King
    As I will always be his Queen.
    Let him love me until our deaths
    And let me die before he –
    At the end of my current story
    When it was written for me to leave.
    Make him resourceful and influential
    Beautiful and spiritual
    Compassionate and selfless
    Light in human form,
    A voice for the helpless.
    Make him an artist and a businessman
    A wizard and a recluse,
    A genius in a class by himself –
    And the best mystery novel
    On the superstitious shelves.
    Never the follower,
    Always the leader
    And when I’m down and wallowing,
    He’ll pick me up as my healer.
    He sees the world the same as I do.
    And will work at resolving any issues
    Without pain, lies, or wasted tissues.
    Truth is our foundation
    And together we’ll work our minds
    To impact entire nations.
    He doesn’t care if I just want
    To go help people or create,
    And he understands me well
    When I drift off
    Into the abyss of my mind
    That sometimes
    But when we merge our brains
    and throws ideas like arrows –
    We rise to the top of the page
    Like comic book superheroes.
    You have the skills I lack,
    And I got balancing acts and talents
    That will always have us stacked.
    When we we fuse our lights
    We can conquer the niche of choice
    And leave a regal legacy
    For our girls and boys.
    Let him be the best father –
    The best husband –
    with the best mind –
    The best kind –
    Culturally, stylistically
    And culinary
    Beautifully Sculpted
    And luminously designed,
    Light pours from his eyes
    In tune,
    With natural
    Charisma, flair
    And style.
    Thinks big,
    And super far –
    And in himself, is a result
    Of God’s greatest
    Hand in human art

  263.  #263alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:50 am

    and i was pyschic so i knew things. and i knew things others didn’t know.

    and I antagonized them by trying to tell them things THEY DIDN’T WANT TO KNOW. by trying to show them a better way.

    if i found something that worked for me iwould badger the people i cared about.

    but not everyone is on my path. not everyone wants to be saved by me. not everyone wants to self help their way to nirvana. not everyone wants enlightenment. not everyone wants to be wealthy or learn the law of attraction.

    and i would just badger them. because i thougt i was helping them,

    but to them it just felt like antagonism. and it took me a while to see that for myself.

    i felt angry they did not want my “help”

  264.  #265alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:56 am

    daria that is so beautiful. especially so since it came up in your B*tch goddess search.

  265.  #266alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:59 am

    goodnight goddess wendy and goddess daria. i feel very sleepy.

  266.  #267Daria on December 11, 2009 at 4:00 am

    “The first step – especially for young people with energy and drive and talent, but not money – the first step to controlling your world is to control your culture. To model and demonstrate the kind of world you demand to live in. To write the books. Make the music. Shoot the films. Paint the art.”

    Chuck Palahniuk

  267.  #268DocK on December 11, 2009 at 7:29 am

    AG – I have had similar experiences with trying to help people in the physical sense (but psychic is so much more intriguing!) and explained it to someone recently.

    I was performing an exercise – I do it differently than most – and a couple of guys started to ask me about it. This other guy comes over, uninvited, and starts explaining to then what I am trying to say. They start arguing – I walk away.

    The guy that HAD been asking me the questions said that this guy always does this – offers advice without anyone asking. I explained to him that I had learned a long time ago not to do that.

    In the past – I thought I was being “helpful” and people just got annoyed. Now I only do this when asked – as the 2 original guys did.

    I figured out it’s a lot like the Wizard of Oz. The Scarecrow admonished the Good Witch for not telling Dorothy from the beginning that she could have used the shoes to take her home (she had the power all along) but Glinda told them – “She had to learn it for herself.”

  268.  #269Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 7:50 am

    Daria: I loved the poem! Especially the line…
    And the best mystery novel
    On the superstitious shelves.

    I want to feel surprised! I feel bored right now. I feel good with the men I’m seeing but not super excited. I want some random dude to surprise me with his fabulous-ness. Doesn’t have to be wild, crazy, loud stuff. In fact, I would feel more excited if the surprise was super quiet and astounding in its magnitude. I want that moment where I turn my head back to him and think “I never really saw that one coming”.

    Mmm. It feels good to imagine it happening. I do have this on a small scale with most of the guys I’m with but nothing like a “I can’t believe you just did/said that”. Although Super Kisser Man did look at me at one point and said “you’re adorable”. It caught me off guard (beautiful and pretty and sexy I hear a lot, but not adorable). It felt genuine to me and sweet and unexpected. It felt GOOD. I want lots more of that.

  269.  #270Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Wendy: I feel confused why touching a woman’s face and saying whatever lines he said would feel suspicious to you. This whole blog is about discovering our triggers and working them out here safely so that when we’re in the real world with a man in front of us we don’t have those bad triggers. If you were on a date with a man and he touched your face and you felt weird, how would you feel and what would you say? Maybe it would feel good to look deeper and discover why that fear is there.

    It’s not bad that you feel suspicious, but I feel curious why you do. I’ve definitely had moments where I wondered if a man was being geniune with me or just shining me on to get a little action. However, I feel strong in my ability to say no, so I might enjoy a man touching my face in a way that felt good to me because I feel super confident that I’m in control of how far things go. Does that make sense?

    If I heard that advice / opinion about a date I went on, I would feel annoyed only because I feel confident in myself to handle the situation the best way for me. I would feel appreciative of the concern, but also upset that anyone might feel doubtful of my ability to handle myself.

    It feels good to hear your voice here. Your words are giving me the opportunity to write out something that I’ve been guilty of (giving unsolicited advice) and to understand how that might actually feel bad to someone else. Thank you!

  270.  #271tinque on December 11, 2009 at 8:54 am

    Daria – the best acidophilus bar none is Megadophilus made by Natren. I recommend the powdered one. It’s found in the refrigerated section in the vitamin aisle at Whole Foods or any good health food store.
    They also have an acidophilus formula called Trinity which I hear is better, but it’s far more expensive, and I don’t see enough added benefit in relation to the enormous added expense. Don’t get talked into it, and don’t get Bifidus.
    It also comes in a dairy free formulation if you are sensitive to dairy.
    Another nice thing about the powder is that you can also douche with it which under normal circumstances I don’t believe in, but when you are suffering from an infection, it is useful.
    xxoo feel better 🙂

  271.  #272dawn on December 11, 2009 at 9:07 am

    How do i find my feminine energy? What is the difference between being needy and being vulnerable ? I am seriuos. I need some help today !!

  272.  #273tinque on December 11, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Dawn – When needy, your energy goes outward. It’s prickly; it feels uncomfortable, within you as well to others. You feel anxious, scared, petrified even.
    When vulnerable, you energy just is, and it’s calm. Your heart is open, wide open, loving and receiving. There’s a beautiful peacefulness radiating from you.

  273.  #274Flipper on December 11, 2009 at 9:29 am

    I feel it’s so much easier to hear unsolicited advice that’s given through a feeling message coming from the adviser’s own (owned) standpoint: “I” feel wary, misgivings, concerned…when I hear/see what’s happening with you…… However learned, experienced, intelligent, caring they may be, I feel resistance when people start out with “You”… Should/Must…/Can’t See it But….” As the hopelessly Bossy older sister (it was Me who felt hopeless cast in that role) I sure wish I’d learned a better way of communicating than what apparently always felt like ‘bossing’ to my siblings.

    Brava Daria and Alias Girl for demonstrating the how to’s, Wendy for hanging in there with your messages and softening them till they became audible.

    Brava to Alias Girl for real-live, everytime circular dating. I so look forward to feeling scrumptious reveling in her prose about her experiences.

  274.  #275Kate on December 11, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Hi Ladies- I have to comment on this one because I have a somewhat similar case. He is not married, nor is he abusive and does not have children with this women. But is it really different. Without having to go into specifics of the individual sitiation he is not avaialble. At this point we have great conversation and sex once a month. What is so pulling for me is that, he has been totally honest with me about where he is at with his “relationship process” and there fore leaves a choice up to me and to how I want to continue or enter into realationship with him. He does pursue- What is strange and I can;t figure it out is that this guy speaks to my spirit. He asks me questions that no one else does, not girlfriends not family etc… Questions about the specific pains in my life and then lets me cry and be completly vulnerable and raw. He holds me and affirms me like no one ever has. Is he “toxic” ? I think there are areas where he is and there are areas where I’am as well. I will admit it and he would do the same. When we are ready to go to another level as growing human beings we will do so. We are both working seperately about this situation. I was in a marriage for 10 years and last Feb. my ex told me that he never was in love with me or attracted to me. That hurts so deeply and I have to go through the grief there and allow myself time. What this other guy has done is made me feel wanted, listened to and that I’m valuable. His not entering into a relationship and commitment with me is not de valuing me,it is what it is. Am I justifying here or laying it out as it is-with no expectations, the courage to say that I’m being a shit to be with a guy that has a girlfriend ( no matter how bad the realtionship is) he is still there. I just really get it, of course i would say that I thought I would never be in this situation. I also won;t neccesarily even get in the soulamte part. I thought I had that with my ex husband-I was wrong. So I let it be, check my decisions and when I’m ready to do different I will.

  275.  #276Kate on December 11, 2009 at 9:37 am

    P.S. I also continue to circular date so that I’m not stuck on him and open opportunities to have a wonderful relationship with an “available man”. So I keep options open. I honestly wish that something would go off in me that says ” Kate, he has a girlfriend, happy relationship or not, he has not left her”. I really do- but It maybe reflects where Im at emotionally etc.. so I keep pushing myself out of this deal with others than work on holding me accountable to the rigt thing, figuring out why Im in this deal and also reach out to date other guys.

  276.  #277diamond on December 11, 2009 at 10:09 am


    Coming back really late to this but WOW @ “face value” … this really clicked with me.

    I read somewhere that you should always take men at face value. So I guess I had associated communicating like that as being masculine. But why not? I mean, if I feel “x” I should say “I feel ‘x’.”, right? That’s just face value honest.

    Wow. This helped a lot. Thank you.

  277.  #278Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:25 am

    thanks diamond:

    i’ve come to believe that taking people at face value is very respectful of how they want to present themselves. and that respect calls for closeness. either they want to be close to me or they don’t. and they usually decide after i’ve taken what they’ve said and marched forward with it as if it’s the truth. i almost always get a lot of feedback. if they’re lying, they want to come clean, because they can’t stand the barrier of my trust.

    it takes a lot of discipline to do it. the tendency is to skip over and proceed with what i feel the truth to be. i have to stop myself and assess what is being said, and sometimes i just forget.

  278.  #279Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:30 am

    lil’ tiny example: my husband and i were out and about on a sunday. he was getting antsy about something, i could feel it. he started picking at me about the house and that it was messy. we had people coming over that night, but the house was only gonna take 15 minutes to put in order. we had three or four hours. i knew he wanted to watch football. i said, “well. you’re right. we’ve really got to get the house ready.” and he looked over with big smile and said, “AND watch the playoffs!”

  279.  #280Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:36 am

    wow, wendy. i’m gonna get out my christmas lights and invite R. over.

  280.  #281Lisa on December 11, 2009 at 11:40 am

    A male friend once asked me of the toxic relationship I am leaving: “How can you allow him to ejaculate inside of you? He is putting toxic material into your body.” What a thought! By my allowing a toxic man into my body, I was negating anything positive I mentally hoped to accomplish.

    Yes, yes — one day, he may be a suitable mate for someone. One day, he may lose his misogyny. One day, he may become nurturing, and step out of his egoism …

    But that day is not now, and I am not a curandero (as a previous commenter wrote. I’d be making the big bucks, like Don Juan Castenada if I were.) I am a simple woman, and haven’t any magical powers, only the power to love and meet another honestly. If he will take my hand, we might go to new heights. Maybe.

    But certainly I can’t take someone out of the sub-basement kicking and screaming, and squeeze us both on the little wedding cake pedestal. Na ga da, as the George HW Bush impersonator slurred on SNL.

  281.  #282Tara on December 11, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Thank you for that gorgeous poem! I’m going to print it out and put it on my wall. 🙂
    Mary: Yes, let’s climb out of the pit together! Keep circular dating (there is a speech you can give him about that) — he’s supposed to commit to you first.

    Update on Steve: LOL! After using the “sick babysitter” excuse on Wed, he said he wanted to see me Friday. Thurs. afternoon he texted “You’re going to hate me. I have two surgeries scheduled tomorrow, plus equipment testing.” This is –what? the SEVENTH time he’s rescheduled the damn coffee date.
    I took it as an opportunity to text him some Feeling messages. At least I’m getting some practice with those.
    Of course, he apologized — and then informed me the rush of surgeries would keep him busy FOR THE REST OF THE MONTH!
    I laughed to myself when I read that. This is so transparent.
    Either he wants to get rid of me without actually committing a “breakup” or he has no control over his own life. I suspect it’s the former because he never sends affectionate or romantic texts anymore, and rarely asks how things are going for ME.
    He has said “I love you” the last two times he’s called.
    At this point, it’s not even about “crumbs.” Other guys in the past have freely admitted to me that this is just the sort of thing they do until a woman gets disgusted and dumps THEM.
    They then fall madly in love with another woman and treat her incredibly well.

    Does that make them “temporarily toxic?”
    If they’re permanently toxic, how can they morph into Prince Charming with the next gal and treat her great?

    Obviously, I need to get “Toxic Men” after my daughter’s wedding. Wish I could get it now.

  282.  #283Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Lisa: Ejaculating toxic materials inside me… ohhh I love that! Haha! And the comment “squeeze us both on the little wedding cake pedestal” – brilliant! I feel your fierceness! LOVE it!!

  283.  #284Mary on December 11, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    yesterday i was talking on this blog and R called. that’s when i had all my feelings written on a note, and we decided to just have A Talk over the phone. so i was able to use my cheat sheet.

    so. while that was happening. i totally stood up my friend who was waiting at a restaurant. it was 1:00 and we were supposed to have lunch at 12:00. gift from ME! i called her right away. i said. WOW. i’m sorry. she laughed it off. gave me grace. another chance today! i feel wonderful but have to GO NOW in order to be on time for her.

    but BITCH GODDESS. i just wanted to say one thing! thank you for instructions yesterday about feelings. i don’t like the feeling after. the humiliated vulnerable feeling. but maybe i can get used to it. thank you for sharing your worries last night. i feel close to you now that i just read them. thank you for the information that i can use when i make decisions about my own sex life. thank you for your get-down-to-specifics, amazing conversations with wendy. the one that started like this: Wendy – i feel so much compassion. Wow. that was so full of love. and you were so full of stress. and i think the stress got better after that. eh?

    gotta go claim the grace that’s being so generously extended to me!

  284.  #285Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Tara: When we are with Toxic Men, it doesn’t matter if THEY are truly toxic or not. It has more to do with what I’m getting out of it, and why *I* am choosing to stick around for the toxicity. It’s my own toxic vibe that is the problem. Maybe I feel worthless, like I’ll never find another man (read: FEAR). But I can face that fear. I can admit I’m alone, that I don’t want to feel lonely, but I feel OKAY being alone. I love my lonely feelings because it drives me to get out in the world and be around people. Once I truly believe that then I can move on and stop accepting crumbs.

    Would it feel better to be alone for awhile, to stop getting 5 seconds of crumb love every once in awhile, and then be available to someone else who wants to give me YEARS of true love?

    I feel compassion for that dark and lonely place. Whenever I find myself there, it feels horrible.

  285.  #286gina on December 11, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I saw G again last night. i feel attracted, overwhelmed suffocated, stifled, controlled, yet powerful. I WILL NOT be his house maid. I have my own purpose in life, separate from having kids. I will put my family as my FIRST priority, but I will not give up my identity to manage “G incorporated”, as he put it. I will not be a slave to all the “little G juniors” (5 boys and maybe a girl, he says). HELL to da no. I would love to find a way to have my kids around me, but I will always do my own thing. I will not scrub the floors and do menial cleaning work, because I’d rather spend my time doing other things (that I’m better at), and he can spend his millions to hire someone to clean. I like things tidy and organized, but I have no desire to do menial housework to fulfill his machismo vision of “His family.” NO DEAL.

  286.  #287Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Gina: Huh? I mean, I feel flabbergasted. Wha? Ummm… white flag raised. What happened? I feel intrigued and amazed and would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall for that convo.

    Shivers. I just got some serious Mr. Manly Man flashbacks.

    “G Incorporated”? I feel amused. Seriously. In my case, I find it hard to be humorous when I feel a man give me the “little woman” card. It might feel good though to say “haha I feel amused. What do you mean “G Incorporated”? Don’t you have people for that?” Guys in power jobs think they can order everybody around. It’s the women who don’t take their shit but do it in a funny way (read: not angry / bitchy) that are the ones that they want. Maybe being the girl who says “haha – uh – no” is what he wants and this is just a test.


  287.  #288Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Lisa, I have to say that we all have magic in us. Believe in yourself. Maybe not in the man or in the situation. And by not just accepting his toxic-ness at the time. Does help him to change to be a better man. If not, than be glad that you let him go. Maybe he learned how to be toxic from his father and might never change. Maybe you pushing him out the door is what he needs to growand help him think twice about things. But you do have magic in you. We all do!
    You are brave and wonderful. Just that power alone has its own special magic.

  288.  #289Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Kate, it sounds like you are getting everything you need out of the relationship. That is good… And I am sure it feels great. It is good to keep checking in with your feelings. It feels wonderful to be able to be with someone and not feel needy or be full of fear for the future AND get your needs met. I amsure you must help him with his needs too.
    Good for you.

  289.  #290Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    I had my mom read the letter that got me in hot water last night and I asked her what it was that triggered me about it. And what did I see that no one else. My mom is a wise lady and she said these words. ” because it is in the future” All of his words were in the future context of someday I will have room for a relationship. Someday I will have a place in the city. ETC It sounded like the start of an imaginary relationship.
    I know we all must grow in our own way and learn from our own mistakes.But our parents have taught us to learn from others mistakes as well. Maybe this is the perfect relationship for Gina. I don’t know
    I feel happy that I was able to say what I felt needed to be said. If we all just keeped our noses to our selves than we would never learn from each other.

  290.  #291alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    i feel resistant resistant resistant. i don’t want to go on dreadful dates. this man has a reference to “pat your behind (in a sexy way of course” in his profile. and that a woman should be able to “converse and chew gum at the same time”

    what kind of woman has he been dating???????????
    that it would be a problem for them to carry on a conversation and chew gum while he is “patting their ass” (“in a sexy way of course”)


    what kind of torturous therapy is this?

  291.  #292alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    ok this was the best i could do. i actually responded to him:

    hi thank you for emailing. i do not feel inspired. i actually feel a little offended after reading the words in some men’s profiles. i believe we are probably not a good match. but i wish you the best of luck and hope you find the perfect woman for you.


    is there a better way? a better response? I would love input. i feel confused. I FELT AWFUL considering going on a date with him

    I feel confused.

  292.  #293Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    oh, diamond! going back over my good feelings for today! i love it that you liked my face value idea, but i forgot the best part:

    truth …. face value response …. more truth, more clarification with the result of more closeness

    lie … face value response …. same lie said again, less closeness


    lie … face value response … TRUTH, more closeness

    (because the person couldn’t stand it that they were withholding from you. because you respected them with face value)

  293.  #294diamond on December 11, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Oh! That is great! I really like that, Mary. Thank you.

  294.  #295Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    alias girl:

    i LOVED your feelings last night. i was so ON A ROLL with your feelings that i started thinking YES i want to circular date again, too! YES. i’m gonna do what the hell i freakin’ want to do!

    i feel sad if you date frogs. i feel scared for me that you don’t want to date frogs. my guys are not frogs. i feel embarrassed for wanting more than i have. i feel scared there is no one better out there.

    maybe there are some not-frogs men who are not-keepers that we can date? IFFFFFFFFFFF i decide to do that too?

    this is super scary for me. i have three ALMOSTS that are almost bagged and ready for take-home. do i say, no! i’m still shopping! i am quite hungry now.

  295.  #296Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    if a person wants to be close to you, face value forces the truth

  296.  #297Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    maybe there are some not-frogs that are snakes

  297.  #298alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    thanks mary. i feel appreciative of your response and reading it actually shifted my perspective.

    ok no, rori suggests we follow our feelings. and feeling AWFUL is different than feeling resistant or unsure or uncomfortable in a new situation.

    i feel assured that taking action towards AWFUL will most likely lead to more awful.

    so i am revising. i am not going to date Every dreadful man. i am going to date good men that i may be uncomfortable and resistant dating because I do not feel attracted.

    i feel a big difference. ahhh i feel better and more expansive already. THANKS MARY!

  298.  #299Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    oh, guess what. my name is not mary.


    it doesn’t really fit me. i’m not sure why i chose it. i was just on for one comment, that’s why.

    so i’m gonna change it to MARRY.

    or MARRY ME!

    that’s so much better.

    or just MARY ME.

    that’s kinda back-handed. i love my back hand.

  299.  #300Mary Me on December 11, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    here i am, transformed.

  300.  #301Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    my comments are now awaiting moderation, because i changed to Mary Me.

    so i changed back to avoid awaiting. !!

    i think we will be pleasantly surprised and have some GOOD TIMES with these not-frogs.

  301.  #302Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    i still don’t know what to do. i’m leaving town on sunday! getting outa dodge. dodgy maneuver. not playing, i know! but getting on with MY LIFE. doing what I NEED TO DO. which is, at the moment: REAL ESTATE LICENSE. i’m in canada, in bc. the test is really hard here. big no-pass rate! but I WILL PASS.



  302.  #303Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    My last comment says Your comment is awaiting moderation. Does that mean I am in trouble and being pulled into the teachers office?

  303.  #304Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    how to tell R. that i’m going out of town and HE CAN’T COME! he just invited me to vegas and i said “i’m foggy about where we’re going.”

    how to tell B. that i’m going out of town and HE CAN’T COME! he’s been out of town and comes back the day after i leave! i never even offered to pick him up at the airport. that sounds like driving to him. oh! so unlike me! oh! so callous! oh! so conniving! oh! i don’t like this new me.

    but part of me feels liberated.

  304.  #305Wendy on December 11, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Mary, I makes me feel relieved that I am not the only one whose comments are also in moderation mode

  305.  #306Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    alias girl: “hi thank you for emailing. i do not feel inspired. i actually feel a little offended after reading the words in some men’s profiles. i believe we are probably not a good match. but i wish you the best of luck and hope you find the perfect woman for you.”

    i feel warm and cuddly about this. my favorite part: i do not feel inspired. i wish you had said “in YOUR profile!” this is inspiring for me.

  306.  #307Mary Me on December 11, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    testing with my new name that i love.

  307.  #308Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    hello, moderation? i’m going back to Mary again. changed my mind again!

  308.  #309Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    over lunch, my very good friend, who gave me grace, says,

    “so tell me about R.”

    long talk.

    then she says, “it sounds very dysfunctional to me. he has his hooks in you. (oh no!) there are these little threads going back and forth between you, enmeshing you with each other. (gasp!) it’s kinda like witchcraft or something.” (yes, she said that!)

  309.  #310alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    mary i didn’t want to use YOU because it’s kind of like blaming him or making him the cause of my feelings somehow. though really the way i stated it is just a workaround and maybe a little underhanded? i don’t want to be underhanded. i just didn’t know how to tell him i was totally turned off by HIS profile. but if i say “men” as in “not specifically him” then it might allow him to hear what i wrote a little bit easier without feeling defensive.

    ? i’m not sure.

    if anyone knows how to address something specific like that without blaming the person i would feel interested to know.

  310.  #311Mary on December 11, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    maybe something like “i am a non-chewing woman who doesn’t enjoy sexy pats on my behind, so maybe we’re not compatible.”


  311.  #312Flipper on December 11, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    I feel relieved for AG. If someone talked to me froggily Like That in the street, I would not feel like like responding to him, much less giving him my phone number. So for me he’s a non-starter – feels like someone outside of Circular Dating (except maybe to practice backing away from), so I don’t to spend any goddess energy there. I would not feel truthful wishing him luck.

    Mary Me – I feel free for you – just doing the normal things you need and want to do for yourself, with no overfunctioning cares . I sense that your almost-keepers will actually wind up feeling good having the chance to miss you and feeling confirmed in their own feelings about such a great woman who takes care of her important business.

  312.  #313Mary on December 11, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    alias girl:

    architect non-trigger:

    oh. my grandparents were cotton-pickers. they were very intelligent, but had to leave school early and work in the fields. they got married on their lunch break. so my dad became a valedictorian of everywhere! when he graduated from university, he had two full scholarships. one to harvard. one to m i t. he chose m i t. i think he was the valedictorian there! and he became a very famous architect. designed many skyscrapers and at one time had the tallest building of its perimeter in the world.

    his office was full of hustling and bustling. markers and graph paper. beautiful, gorgeous chairs and amazing conference rooms. pretty secretaries. quality. quality. quality. it was a glass building with amazing views.

    once i was a piano player at a party, in a house where doctors usually had their parties. i knew right away, after i played the first song that these were not doctors. i loved the people at the party! just something about them! so i asked: who are you? how do you guys know each other? and they said: we’re architects. no wonder i loved them!

    architects are right-brain / left-brain. most of them super intelligent. versatile. and they love their work.

    i was so amused by your observation last night! not in a bad way! in an interesting way! i always wanted to be an architect, but i was interested in everything, and i didn’t decide. but i should have had my own little home-building business. i would have loved that!

  313.  #314Mary on December 11, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    oh, flipper! there you are again! thank you. thank you. i’m just going to go and DO IT. i should have been an architect, but real estate is okay! i’m gonna love real estate.

  314.  #315Mary on December 11, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    talk to you later, shower now… out tonight with a GIRLfriend. (relief!)

  315.  #316Melanie on December 11, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    I feel excited about the red flag discussion. I feel interested in learning more about red flags. I feel curious whether genuine red flags are perceived through logic or gut feelings. I feel curious and a little scared that my good friend feels red flags about a certain guy (for me), but my therapist and I do not!

    Wendy’s words: “we like the attention so much that a man is giving us that we cant see the red flags.” Yes, I feel worried about that, too, sometimes. I asked my therapist if she thought I was ignoring red flags, and she did not see them as red flags, but my friend did. I felt glad that my friend shared her wary feelings about the guy. And a little mad and scared. But I know she did it because she loves me. I feel good about my loving, goddess friend who married a man she met on match.com and they adore each other! 🙂 I feel glad she loves me enough to worry about my heart getting broken. I feel worried sometimes about my heart getting broken. I feel worried sometimes that I am ignoring red flags. But how do I know if they are red flags or just my fears and worries and overthinking? My gut feeling says “stick with him for now.” I feel good when he communicates with me. VERY GOOD!!!! I would feel better if he communicated with me MORE. Is that a red flag? Does that mean he is not enough? Or is it just my own fear and wanting?

    Daria’s words: “sometimes our pasts make us OVERLY wary of receiving good stuff from a man, because we are afraid of being hurt.” Yes. That is how I feel. Overly wary. But how do I know when it is good wary or overly wary?

    I feel wary. I want to feel NOT wary. I want to feel CERTAIN, and completely and entirely loved and adored. All the time.

  316.  #317Melanie on December 11, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Shannon wrote: “I would feel more excited if the surprise was super quiet and astounding in its magnitude. I want that moment where I turn my head back to him and think ‘I never really saw that one coming’.”

    I love the way you said that, Shannon! That is exactly how I felt when This Guy arrived in my life. I still feel that way a lot with him, depending on how things are going. He quietly astounds me and surprises me all the time with the things he says. Except when he is completely silent for a day or two. Then I feel worried that I won’t feel his astounding magnitude again. But then there it is again and I feel happy! And then I worry. Then I’m happy. And so on.

  317.  #318Mary on December 11, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    who was that masked man?

    hi ho silver and AWAY…

  318.  #319Mary on December 11, 2009 at 6:11 pm


    Red flags wave all over the place, and my heart doesn’t see them. I have to depend on my head to take care of my heart. My heart has no boundaries. It hears No and thinks Maybe. It loves without limits. It takes care of everyone.

    I had this thought:

    I am going to keep a journal next time. A feeling journal. I’m just going to write down five words (Daria, I added one): ANGER, SADNESS, FEAR, SHAME, GLADNESS. Each guy gets his own journal. (I’ll buy some of those pretty little blank books at the book store.) Then, every day, I’m gonna write in an entry for each of these feelings for that particular guy. Then I can go through and see how I feel with each guy. All across the board, I can read my ANGER notes. And all the other entries. Maybe that will help me with the red flags.

    What do you think?

  319.  #320Mary on December 11, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    seems like too much work, though. and feelings change in a second, according to everyone here. so maybe not.

  320.  #321Melanie on December 11, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    The journals sound fun because I would like an excuse to buy lots of different interesting journals. 🙂

  321.  #322alias girl on December 11, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    I just sent off a resume for a job that sounds pretty cool!

    I feel so excited. This is probably the fifth job opportunity that I have felt excited about!!! At least! This is GREAT progress and my perspective has far surpassed my training and faulty belief systems around money and life and livelihood.

    yae! I feel so good i am making such great progress!!!!! YAE!

  322.  #323Melanie on December 11, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    Your words remind me of an Ingram Hill lyric: “Annie, you’ve never been true to me, but I still am buying your lies. Tell me, why, when you say goodbye, I hear goodnight?”

    So what are we to do?

    My head messes with me even more than my heart does.

  323.  #324Simply Shannon on December 11, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Alias Girl: My response to Mr. Pat The Ass…

    I appreciate the email. I feel amused by men who think they are smarter than women. When I read a comment like “converse and chew gum”, it feels condescending. Is that what you meant? I feel curious. I can actually converse, chew gum, and calculate long division with one hand tied behind my back. Are there men out there who can actually handle that kind of woman?

    He probably has been on a few dates with women who are airheads or duds but is just clueless and doesn’t realize it might not be so smart to point out these things in his profile, ESPECIALLY given the crowd he’s playing to. Hello mister… you can weed these women out via email. Ok? Duh.

    Anyhoo… I try to play things off as a joke in the beginning (cuz I sometimes go all serious in the beginning). So play with them. And this I have done with several guys when their profiles sucked (not all but some).

    A lot of items in guys’ profiles that could be taken as offensive, I generally say I feel amused, interested or curious. Because in general I am. A) I can’t believe they would even write some of that stuff (amused) or B) how did they come up with it to begin with (interested/ curious). And sometimes once I get the guy talking, I’ll see where he’s coming from. I may still think he’s a frog and not pursue but hey maybe I’ll get him to think about what he wrote and save some other lady from wondering.

  324.  #325Lisa on December 11, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Simply Shannon and Wendy,

    Thank for your encouragement. I am glad to be in a community of some smart and savvy (sassy?) cookies. (Meant in no condescending way. I am a cookie, too, but more like a biscotti, with filberts.)

  325.  #326Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    I am a honey dipped Tim bit.

  326.  #327Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    simply shannon: that sounds perfect to me! i love the playing around idea. just not too serious. have fun. maybe he’ll turn into a prince.

  327.  #328Mary on December 11, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    i think that the reason i stay with men who have problems is that i care more about their feelings than I care about my own. i see myself as a STRONG WOMAN. i see them as men who are in need of me. i feel like they won’t be able to cope if i tell them i don’t want to see them any more. and then THEY dump ME. exactly at the point when they know they have me.

    codependence. i love my codependence.

  328.  #329Jennifer on December 12, 2009 at 6:33 am

    YEAH for Canadian girls!!! WooHooo!!!!!
    I’m an apple fritter Tim Bit. And a double double.

  329.  #330tinque on December 12, 2009 at 7:47 am

    enlighten me please Mary. tim bit? (K thinks it’s two five bits lol.)

  330.  #331Jennifer on December 12, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Tinique…..sorry to use short forms!
    Tim bits are donught holes from a donught shop called Tim Hortons…

    Here in Canada it’s a cultural icon. We say we “want a Tim’s” if we want a coffee.
    We also have a vernacular for the products.
    Double Double is a coffee with two sugars and two cream.
    Our soldiers even have a more specific vernacular. They call the double double the “NATO special” because our troops do alot with the NATO forces.
    The also refer to it as “St. Timothy of Hortons”. Our base in Khandahar has a Tim Hortons in it. As does every base I’ve ever been on here at home.

  331.  #332tinque on December 12, 2009 at 8:53 am

    thanks, eh…

  332.  #333Nikita on December 12, 2009 at 9:00 am


    If you change your name…I’m changing mine to “Just Married”…

    LOL……. 🙂

  333.  #334Mary on December 12, 2009 at 10:10 am

    well, now i’m thinking of retiring mary and coming back with something altogether new!

    but maybe not.

    or maybe i’ll have two going so i can talk to myself late at night when no one else is up!

  334.  #335Mary on December 12, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Hey Jennifer… apple fritter Tim Bit. come on over to victoria for a visit!

  335.  #336Rori Raye on December 12, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Sorry, Wendy and Mary Me – new names – and sometimes not new, too – get pushed to “moderation” and I sometimes take up to two days to find them…Love, Rori

  336.  #337Lisa on December 12, 2009 at 12:02 pm


    I, like you, fancy I am a strong woman, and feel some sort of pity for the controlling/inadequate men I find. Truth is, the game-player always holds the cards, and we can be brought down by a mean and nasty manipulator.

    I am of the mind that only weak people can be truly cruel, for if one were confident and enlightened, one would never wish to spend a moment spooling another’s misery or discomfort out.

    Re. “co-dependence”: I do not love my unhealthy co-dependence, that “death-lock” on another, that laser focus on his every move. I think all relationships are co-dependent to one degree or another, as we should ideally be interested in the other’s plans and how we might fit, and vice versa, and helping each other down the road.

    That is healthy co-dependence.

    I do not love my unhealthy co-dependence. Co-dependent no more!

  337.  #338Found My Perfect (for me) Guy and Living Happily Ever After, Thank You! on December 12, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    oooooh i am changing my name too please. hmmm. to

    i’m going to change it to

    Found My Perfect (for me) Guy and Living Happily Ever After, Thank You!

  338.  #339Daria on December 12, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Hi Lisa…

    the reason you will see people here saying stuff like… I love my codependence, I love my shame, etc and all kinds of other “bad feelings” or “bad” parts of ourselves

    is because we are practicing loving all parts of ourselves, including the ones we or others have judged as BAD.

    It brings healing. It does not make the “badness” get worse as I had feared, but actually helps heal it.

    It’s part of a VERY IMPORTANT tool called Riffing.

    This process of following our feelings and telling them we love them and letting them change can be found in the Power And Self Esteem posts on the right side of the website.

    Starting with the oldest (timewise) post of Rori’s, we made lists as she requested and followed our feleings on them… so those of us who don’t know how are encouraged to go there and go through those posts making their lists.

  339.  #340Flipper on December 12, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    I love my nothingness feelings. I love my duh who/what am I anyway moments. I love my headache and my tendancy to drink way too much champagne when it helps me feel more somethingness for awhile. I love feeling blah and blech (thanku Daria and AG for the vocab). I love my tiny dabs of anger and vexation. I love the deep breaths from my singing teacher-friend and Rori’s body recuperation lady that bore me to death (I think) but which actually bring me to feeling better (I feel, I really do, it’s great).

  340.  #341alias girl on December 13, 2009 at 4:24 am

    i feel protective of flipper. i feel like “putting the kettle on” for flipper. xoxo

  341.  #342Lisa on December 13, 2009 at 1:45 pm


    Thank you for that explanation. I was recently exposed to EFT and I guess it is the same idea of “even though … this”, I still love and accept myself.

  342.  #343Daria on December 13, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Lisa ! yeah! I recently came to the same realization. I was like Whoa, EFT is like riffing in a way!

  343.  #344Flipper on December 13, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Aaaw, thanks Alias Girl. That feels yummy and huggy – just what I need after snowflakes this morning and missed and cancelled trains tonight that meant 2 1/2 hrs getting home! a guy chatted me up this evening – he’s young and cute so that felt kinda good but he was coming on so strong and so obviously WANTED SOMETHING from me – a job, residence permit, a lay I dunno but definitely not a genuine relationship with a goddess, so I mostly felt uneasy and a little annoyed.
    S’okay, I’m snuggled in front of the computer now with your cuppa and I feel reassured.

  344.  #345Terry on December 14, 2009 at 10:15 am

    I’ve been doing a lot of thinking — and feeling — and here are some of the answers to the questions Rori posed in this post:

    1. By being involved with a married man, what does that make you? Can it feel good?
    –There were a lot of good things in the relationship, including that elusive “soul mate” connection that we BOTH acknowledged. We both saw me as the moral strength and courage that was going to help him get away from the abusive relationship. At the time, that felt very good.
    –It also felt bad, because he was paranoid of discovery. He was terrified that Jane would use our relationship as a weapon to get custody and then abuse their kids.
    –It also made me feel really insecure, and I never got past that. He claimed that we were meant to be together and that he was madly in love with me, but I never quite believed it, especially when he leaned back and was the feminine energy.

    “That makes him just as toxic as his abusive wife – because he’s THERE…and in order to have a baby with her, he must have had sex with her – an abusive woman….”

    –Yes, that really bothered me. He claimed she raped him when she felt like it. She outweighed him by at least 100 pounds, and could likely have broken every bone in his body. He often showed up with bruises, scratches, bite marks, etc.
    Bottom line: even though he said he felt like he was cheating on me when he went home to her, it still happened and I hated it.
    He thinks the baby isn’t his but won’t do a paternity test because he doesn’t want to deal with the consequences.
    Yep, that’s about as toxic as you can get.

    “Let’s talk also about this “soulmate” thing. Can a man who’s not available and very toxic be your soulmate? Can you square this by saying “the timing’s not right”? Can he be “fixed” by your love?”

    –Don’t want to “fix” him. But I did want to give him the moral support to get out. Obviously, he will need a lot of counseling and therapy after he escapes.
    –At one time he thought he was my soul mate. We had a 3-year plan to get him out of there and get married. He made himself available for a relationship with me for a solid year, but the limited and covert nature of it was constantly frustrating to me and I was very impatient with him, constantly pressuring him to take action.

    Bottom line: Yes, being a victim of domestic abuse makes a person toxic, but I do believe it can be reversed. I know several women who’ve gone through that process and have great lives and marriages.
    No, the timing is not right, and herein lies the salient point.

    After the baby came, something happened, and he has been distancing ever since. He has opted out of the relationship, even though he tries to keep me dangling by calling me sporadically, saying “I love you” and setting up dates, only to break them because work is so chaotic right now and he just can’t get away even for a few minutes.

    I strongly suspect he will attach to another woman in the near future, find the guts to leave Jane, and marry her. But, I’m not his chosen person any more, so it really doesn’t matter.

    The only person I can help or focus on here is me. I’ve been reading posts, doing Tools, and getting through finals week.

  345.  #346Tara on December 14, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Rori and everyone:
    THANK YOU thank you thank you!
    I finally get it that I just don’t want to be THERE any more. I want to be HERE — someplace that feels GOOD.
    I want that goddess feeling back.
    I’ve been reading articles, blogs, posts and doing Tools.
    I want to love all my feelings, even the needy and insecure ones.
    And I see, however dimly, that I don’t want to have to bend my brain into a pretzel or feel bad about being with someone.

    After reading Rori’s lovely post today, I had one of those “AHA” moments. Don’t want to go back there — even when I miss him.