What If You Didn’t Ask A Man To Change, And He Didn’t Ask YOU To Change?

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Here’s a great guest post from Lisa Copeland, with a situation that’s totally universal – wanting to change a man:

by Lisa Copeland

Kerrie, a single woman over 50 was dating Mike, a really nice man who just loved SUGAR. He ate sweets like it was his job- a cookie for breakfast, a cupcake for lunch and a normal meal with candy for dessert.

Do you remember the “Slim Fast Plan” celebrities like Kathie Lee Gifford used to lose weight? Well this guy claimed his sugar diet did the same for him.

To Kerrie, massive amounts of sugar consumption were a red flag for her. She knew what sugar could do to a person so she said something to Mike about it. Kerrie did it from a place of fear and concern for him but it came off sounding authoritative and controlling. It was obvious he didn’t like what she was saying.

When she finished baring her soul about his “problem”, he looked at her and said, ” I know you think sugar isn’t good for my health and don’t take this the wrong way but have you ever considered losing 20 pounds for your health?” It was true- She was not a skinny whinny.

In fact, she was stocky and curvy yet the men she’d dated had always loved her body just the way it was. Since, Kerrie was really healthy this man’s words floored her. He tried to make a deal with her-“I will give up sugar if you will lose 20 pounds.”

Kerrie was really pissed and Mike knew it. He tried to make nice with her but it wasn’t working. There were times Kerrie judged her own body harshly enough! She didn’t need someone else doing it for her especially from someone carrying an extra 20 of his own.

Kerrie realized she had a couple of options if she wanted to continue dating Mike.

She could laugh off his comment figuring he was only projecting his own fears and concerns about body weight onto her.

Or she could loose the 20 pounds for him but she knew this option of doing it for someone else wasn’t going to work without a lot of resentment on her part.

In reality, Mike had actually hit one of her hot buttons.

Kerrie had wanted to lose the extra weight since the birth of her last child 20 plus years ago.

For a long time, she’d chosen not to think about it and now she was kind of pissed because not only did Mike discover what she’d hidden from herself all these years he’d put it in her face to look at.

Kerrie felt with all her being that she was who she was and if Mike didn’t like it, he needed to move on and find someone more physically suited to his idea of what a woman should look like.

Kerrie came to me with this story. We talked a while about her options before she said, “I really like Mike. If he’d just end his unhealthy sugar addiction, I’d be so OK dating him.”

We began talking about how she was asking him to change too. To her, it had felt so different because Mike’s sugar addiction was just an unhealthy habit. In Kerrie’s mind, her extra weight was a part of who she was and with men she’d always had this take it or leave it attitude of accept me for who I am or bye-bye.

With some coaching help, Kerrie could see that what Mike had shared about her weight was not a criticism of who she was. He was equally concerned about her health as she was about his.

Because sugar was a habit and not a part of his personality or body, she thought what she wanted Mike to do was different then what he wanted from her.

Kerrie was trying to change Mike’s eating habits because heart disease and diabetes ran in her family and she was afraid if she got involved with him, she’d see the same devastation happen to him as she had seen with her uncle and grandfather from sugar.

After our discussion, Mike and Kerrie sat down and had a heart to heart about what each was feeling about the weight and sugar conversation.

He really thought she was great and if they got further involved he didn’t want to loose her to future health issues. He was trying to protect both her and himself by mentioning the weight. Mike and Kerrie realized that neither wanted to change their own habits since each felt healthy in their own body even though the other didn’t see it that way.

Yet, wanting to explore this potential dating relationship, Kerrie and Mike decided each was going to have to deal with their own fears and let go of trying to change the other just so he or she would feel safe in the relationship.

Follow up 2 years later: Kerrie and Mike are still together. He eats a little less sugar and she has lost a few pounds because it makes her feel better. By working on dealing with their own issues versus trying to change the other to feel safe, Kerrie and Mike are happy in a relationship that allows them both to be themselves while accepting the other person exactly how they are.


From Rori: Here’s Lisa’s website – she’s got really great stuff on there!:

Lisa Copeland



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  1.  #1Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 7:56 am


  2.  #2Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 7:56 am

    yaaay, I feel so excited to be first for the first time!

    It feels silly, but really fun.

    Aw, this feels lucky and smiley. 🙂

  3.  #3Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Reposting on this one just in case everybody switches:

    Is it ok to put exes into rotation for circular dating?

  4.  #4Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 8:14 am

    Yay I actually noticed when the blog changed before hours went by.

  5.  #5Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 8:17 am

    I don’t know if I should have sent this to K, but I just did. I don’t trust him in relation to R, and I mistakenly sent K photos of R and me together in 2009, that I had forgotten about. He recently brought them up and said some not very kind things about R. I have been thinking about it for a couple of weeks, and I finally decided to write this:

    Dear K,

    Hi, how are you? I got two letters and a card today, thanks! I haven’t checked the mail for a few days, and I’ve been crazy busy with my Mom. Plus it felt good to have a little emotional vacation from the intensity and pressure of all things K. I love you!

    I really appreciate all the nice things you do for me and your kind words. I care about you and your sons, and I want the best for you. I value our special connection. I feel hesitant to say anything directly, because I don’t want to hurt you. I see this relationship as toxic in many ways. I too often feel pressured; criticized; controlled. I value you, and there is only one K, and I treasure you. But I feel scared sometimes because I don’t know what you will do or say around people in my life who I love and value. Both Cris and my Mom have gotten harsh letters in the past, and I felt beyond embarrassed – I felt scared. I myself have gotten many harsh letters, and a more emotionally healthy woman would have ended this friendship many times over. I trust you where I personally am involved. But I don’t trust you around my friends. And I feel scared when I hear, “I wish I could fix this or that friendship for you.”

    I feel unsafe carrying you into my future, because if you don’t respect my choices in friends, how do I know you will respect my choice in a husband someday? I fear for my future happiness in a marriage when I think of you in my future. I don’t want to share all the intimate details of my life with someone who has been known to take it upon himself to try to ruin my friendships, without my knowledge or sayso. I want to go into a future relationship baggage free, not have to warn every man who gets involved with me that he may be your future enemy if you get a whim that you don’t like him. How can I share freely with you when this constant fear is hanging over my head?

    I ended this relationship as we knew it six years ago, and it was after six years of trying to make it work. I love you and respect you in a thousand ways. I don’t want to hurt you. But I feel like my past with you has the potential to keep me from my chosen future. I don’t want drama. There has been way too much drama in my life, and I feel weary.

    I love you.

    Your Loving Friend, B

  6.  #6Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Micromanage Your Relationship to Failure

    Oops… Someone Left the Door Open for Micromanagement…

    Let’s say your partner takes on a particular responsibility in your relationship. It could be something as simple as mowing the lawn or loading up the dishwasher. Whatever it is, it’s their gig, right?

    But someone who falls into the trap of micromanaging others can’t seem to let go of the idea that the way things are done should resemble exactly how they themselves would do it: all other ways are just dead wrong.

    So, if your partner is handling the task, but is not doing it the way you would do it, or is taking too long to do it, they’re not doing it “right” in your mind because you’ve created a picture that is all black and white: it should be your way, or it’s the wrong way.

    You criticize their technique, methodology and thought process. Then, you tell them in exquisite detail how they should be doing it.


  7.  #7Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 8:52 am

    “For a long time, she’d chosen not to think about it and now she was kind of pissed because not only did Mike discover what she’d hidden from herself all these years he’d put it in her face to look at.”

    In my mind this translates as her lying to herself so it becomes a trigger and something she doesn’t like about herself. I have wanted to write about “I feel attacked and this helps me to see that using “I feel attacked” is really about the person using that FM because they don’t want to deal with their issue. I don’t know if Rori encourages using this but every time I see it I feel resistance as attack in my mind is mostly physical. Also the energy behind the words feel aggressive to me. Though one can say verbally attacked, I still feel “rolling my eyes” just writing that. I am wondering what others think about using those words and whether they have experienced them creating harmony.

  8.  #8Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Just got back from my run, feeling great, going over and over in my head about what I want.
    I want 100% …and if that isn’t up for grabs then I have to decline, thank you very much gentlemen 🙂
    Over and out!

  9.  #9bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 9:03 am


    i saw a quote from someone recently that reminded me…. like “only when you defend can you be attacked” lol gave me something to think about : )

  10.  #10Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:04 am


    I want to drop my defenses

  11.  #11bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 9:05 am

    & feeling i’m being micromanaged triggers me bad…. but only “because” i do notice that i often make a lot of mistakes along the way & also that i procrastinate & i don’t like to have either thing pointed out to myself

  12.  #12Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:06 am

    “Kerrie and Mike decided each was going to have to deal with their own fears and let go of trying to change the other just so he or she would feel safe in the relationship”.

  13.  #13Starla on September 12, 2012 at 9:07 am

    I really don’t want to ask my man to change

    and i certainly don’t want him asking me to change

    and there also has to be a safe place for us to be brave enough to speak up for ourselves though

    i wonder where that is/what that looks like

  14.  #14Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:08 am

    I don’t want a man who goes off travelling and living in another country. I want someone who chooses me.

    Just had a brainwave cause my friend from Florida said: uh oh, he is coming on so strong, so unlike him..I suppose he is feeling guilty, because if he hadn’t appeared on the scene you’d still be there and he knows that.

    I don’t believe that really, but anything is possible.
    I need to act in my own best interests and my best interest is not to cling onto any man who is planning to move abroad rather than ‘nesting’ with me.
    I am not expecting too much because I am worth it.
    I would like a little nest for me, my little chick(s) and also a little boat please, thank you very much.
    That’s not asking too much! 🙂
    A dinghy will do.
    And someone to row row row the boat gently up the stream 🙂

  15.  #15bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 9:14 am

    i got something so simple & silly last night that it really made me giggle.

    i feel afraid of women believing i’m xgly
    i feel afraid of men believing i’m stxpid

    & i believe & dis-believe those ideas alternatively, with the wind, with the tide, with the seasons….

    so i told myself the easiest silliest thing: “women think i’m beautiful, men think i’m smart” & i felt totally invulnerable with it.

    somehow i do see how all my Man, Woman, Girl, Boy energies beat each other up. like my Man is kind of controlling & he yells at the Woman for only having “pictures” or “feelings” & no real “words” or “logic” or anything… my Girl & Boy obviously love to play together & also become irrationally difficult to reconcile when they have a falling-out…… we basically kicked my Man out, actually. he’s like, in time-out or something. he could come around…. i’ll start inviting him. oh, yeah, he’s here. he’s like, no worries, baby, while i was away in my cave, i came up with this super plan. my man is kinda “dreamy” but in a ICK way because he kind of looks like a ken doll, also kind of like my dad, also like a Real Dad… idk how else to day that. he’s a Good Guy lol but jeeeeeez he can be bossy & obsessive….. the Boy is basically good for nothing but getting me into trouble, but he complains wayyyyyy less than the Girl. hm, i like thinking about this : ))

  16.  #16Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 9:18 am

    read the post. I love this. It feels so aware, it feels so accepting, it feels so wanting the best, it feels so open, it feels so inspiring.

    My Mom used to critize my weight ever since I hit puberty, and there’s really only been two brief times in my life where I could even be considered overweight. I’ve never been more than a size 14, and I usually stay around a size 10, and at my fittest, I can squeeze into a large 8.

    I love my body. I try to eat what feels good. I don’t deprive myself, but if I can feel my clothes getting tight, I try to cut back on calories and move more.

    I used to binge and purge, and I will not abuse this wonderful gift of my body like that again…EVER!

    This is at least one issue that I’ve struggled with that I feel like I’ve truly overcome.

    I love how this couple’s concern for each other’s HEALTH was their primary focus in the sugar cutbacks and weight loss.

    It feels so icky when it’s merely about physical preference. It feels disrespectful to the soul inside the body. The soul and body are connected! Both need to be nourished and both need excercise!

  17.  #17bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 9:19 am

    my woman does like my other parts….. esp the kids. but she feels weirded out, liked overwhelmed by that loud guy. he kind of annoys me. reminds me of an accountant or something. lol “what triggers you is what you don’t love about yourself” feels so obvious just this second…

  18.  #18bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 9:23 am

    OMG My Man is coming through for me so hard. i did dress him well this morning lol – in his favorite wool (skirt lol) & my “smoking jacket” tribal knit sweater & a polo i bought myself for my “interview” clothes in high school. omg my cute man-self is SO delicious & sweet & silly awwww i feel affectionate. yes, affectionate towards myself. that’s sweet. compassion. thank you

  19.  #19Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:24 am

    I feel better now, seems I got to the bottom of it all.
    I might even tell him that it doesn’t feel good for me to get attached to someone who is leaving. because it doesn’t – and I don’t want to hold anyone back or ‘change’ them.
    That’s that.
    Phew. Relief.
    It’s not wrong to want it all, especially when you hav had crumbs for so long.
    I have been through a lot in the last year and am not intent on sailing into more pain, if I can help it.
    I am rooting for me.
    Thank Goodness for Rori and you Ladies!!
    Yay, finally I am rooting for me.
    I feel tearful. But no longer anxious.

  20.  #20Daria on September 12, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I feel triggered judging myself as controlling cuz I want my partner to not be eating sugar like that I feel concerned Id constantly be judging him and not respect him

    I want something kinda rigorous it seems in terms of lifestyle I’m not sure I could trust a man who makes those choices

    I feel sad cux the voices have been really loud for me saying Theres no way I’m gona get what I want

    It’s just too out there too demanding and the odds are totally against me since I’m so unique

    I feel post at myself

    And today when I was walking I felt panic and sadness and fear all in my chest

    I’m really feeling frustrated w being myself

    I want to heal this

    I feel angry at myself

    I don’t want to treat myself bad like I do people sometimes when im angry

    It’s not my fault


  21.  #21Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 9:25 am

    mmm…blueberries, avocados, almonds, green tea, raw cheese, fresh spinach, roma tomatoes, olive oil! some of my favorite healthy foods that make me feel so good!

  22.  #22Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 9:27 am

    The way R encourages me to change is by backing away when my behavior is toxic, and coming close when it is healthy.

    I started to do that with K a while back. He responded slowly, but he has responded up to a point. But I think there are blind spots.

    I am also doing that with R: when I feel pain, that is my red warning flag to back away from him. I have had to teach myself that.

    K and I have had the weight discussion. He is very mature about it and says very gently that it isn’t my size and shape that concern him, but my health. And I feel totally accepted by him, so I am able to receive it easily. I feel free to discuss with him my eating issues.

    When I have discussed my weight with R, he said that doesn’t concern him. He is interested in my heart. That felt good to hear. From there, my love for him springboards into WANTING to be my best self, and I MYSELF start to make changes.

    Change is slow in coming tho, because my biggest issue right now is chronic loneliness. I overeat because I’m lonely. I can’t concentrate on my personal business because I’m lonely, and I spend my time and energy reaching out on the computer and phone instead.

    But when he is around, and I don’t feel lonely, I fall easily into healthy eating and taking care of my personal business.

  23.  #23Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 9:27 am

    one of my favorite guys who I respect deeply and feel majorly attracted to lost 20 lbs. I felt so attracted to him both before and after weight loss.

    His hard work felt really attractive to me, though! He makes me feel so inspired and awe-struck. He is soooo beautiful.

  24.  #24Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Oh, I have also had the smoking discussion with both K and R. K is a heavy smoker, and he says it relieves stress. I told him the same, that I feel mostly concerned for his health. But that I don’t care for the smell or taste of it when I kiss him.

    R used to smoke, and now and then he smokes currently. He asked me how I feel about it, and I said it’s your choice. Then the same as I told K. He seemed very cool with my response.

  25.  #25Daria on September 12, 2012 at 9:31 am

    I feel pist. I’m not getting my hormones maybe where my avocado and steelhead trout there aren’t any other fish yes but only a lil bit. More more more I want more like everyday !

    Hit people yes I want to hit people obsessive fantasize of being humiliated by other people wanting to hit me

    Hit them yes!

    Don’t hit I don’t want to

    I’m ‘too good ‘ for that I’m Buddha ugh ice fuchked my self over so many times saying that

    But if I hit them they’ll go away and not love me and it will be worse

    Fucgh can’t trust them they’re Gina leave anyway can’t trust them

    Feel like crying I love my sob


    I love my sigh

  26.  #26Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:33 am

    I love it when men have an appetite…I love to see men eating with an appetite. My boyfriend ate like a sparrow, it was a trigger for me….I never tried to change him but I felt bad for eating more than him. I felt like a glutton.
    He would sometimes go without food forever…and my stomach was grumbling…and I felt bad for saying ‘I am hungry!!’
    MrP is always feeding me something, usually sugary…….in fact, he is feeding me too much and won’t take ‘no’ for an answer. That triggers me also..haha. Except one time I brought a whole lot of muffins and wanted one for breakfast..and all I found were wrappers and a guilty face in the morning.
    That made me laugh..and left me hungry.
    I like men that eat. I love men that love eating the food I cook for them and eat it all and then collapse on a heap on the couch and say ;pfffff, I ate way too much’. I love that.
    I think food and sex are related. A man who loves food is somewhat sensual…one hopes he loves the other senses too.
    I am ranting.

  27.  #27Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 9:34 am

    In 2009 when I first started dating him, R would order soup and salad when we went out to eat, that sort of thing. If I ordered dessert, he would say no thanks. I think silently role modeling is powerful and respectful.

    He denied that he did that to be a role model, but I think he did. 🙂 Because then after I got on the program and was losing about 3 lbs a week while dating him at that time (because I felt so happy!!!), R went back to his usual orders: bacon cheeseburgers and fries, quesadillas, and the like.

    Over and over, in many areas, I have felt motivated and challenged by R’s silent role modeling of good behavior, especially his most amazing listening skills, beyond anyone’s I’ve ever encountered!

    I feel like I’m a better person because of knowing him, and that is a major turn-on for me! Yet all that time, I have never felt pressured, criticized, judged, or controlled.

  28.  #28Starla on September 12, 2012 at 9:34 am

    The way this woman “owned” (and denied the problems of) her extra weight was exactly how her guy in this story “owned” (and denied the problems of) his love of eating sugar.

    She attracted him right to herself.

    I believe that if she had a different attitude and belief about her own health and weight/didn’t put her head in the sand about it, she might have attracted a different kind of partner.

    This makes it all sound so simple and elementary, but… it kind of is.

  29.  #29Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Oh and he hasn’t answered my email yet which is unusual…but ok. It’s probably because I said I don’t feel good discussing the move.
    But that is the truth, gotta be able to handle that Mister. la la la. 😉

  30.  #30Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Hum… Sirens…

    I feel a little confused about something… So I still have things at M’s and when I asked if I should bring them home, he said no. I asked ‘don’t the kids notice some clothes of mine are here?’ and he said they already did and they asked and he told them I just haven’t picked them up yet. This chit-chat was last night.

    This morning I said ‘I feel a little scared the kiddies will notice I was here. I will make sure I bring what I brought in the last 2 days back home. Should I empty the wastebasket (tampon wrappers, makeup pads, ect) and he said ‘no, why?’ and then ‘they (kids) don’t notice those things they are focused on their video games and things like that’. Then I asked about my clothes, maybe I can hide them at the bottom of the closet or in a drawer and he said ‘that’s not necessary’. I am feeling very curious.

    What do you all think?

  31.  #31Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Starla – agreed

  32.  #32Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Siren Angel I think you are your worst enemy

  33.  #33Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 9:39 am

    I am also experimenting with role modeling the way he does. For example, when my Mom was here and flew into a rage or crying as manipulative behavior, instead of feeding into it, I did my best to role model calmness and harmony, using either silence or feeling messages.

    In the past, it would have been a blaming shouting match. This time, she would say about an hour later, “I guess I was yelling a lot, huh? I’m sorry.”

    I never once “tried to change her” by telling her she shouldn’t be yelling. It’s just my peaceful behavior stood in sharp contrast to her temper tantrum.

  34.  #34Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 9:41 am

    SA, kinda makes me feel like it was never about the kids….I think somebody already said that before.

  35.  #35Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 9:41 am


    What do you mean? I shouldnt ask him and just let it be? Or this is not important? Or it’s better that the kids notice and realize they can’t game me out?

  36.  #36ruth on September 12, 2012 at 9:42 am

    26 Tam, yeah that triggers me too

    All to do with my mum calling us greedy for being hungry and putting us on diets(when we didnt need to be)
    I was fairly badly eating disordered in my twenties

    I escaped by getting quite fat, which sounds weird but i then ate what I liked and cooked lovely food and had a stable weight and was extremely healthy

  37.  #37Starla on September 12, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Yeah Siren Angel, I think you are way overfunctioning here. If he wants your stuff out of sight, he’ll tell you. I don’t know why you’re fussing. I hope you’ll focus all that energy nicely back on YOU, and not him. F*ck him=P

  38.  #38Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 9:44 am

    The reason I asked is that I am afraid the kids will see I was here and make a big deal out of it. Whereas if they actually miss me and think they somehow damaged something good, they might ask for me. Also, I don’t want them to feel like we are tricking them by hiding this from them, it makes me afraid their negative thoughts will be triggered against me.

  39.  #39Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Siren Angel….you are pushing yourself into the role that you don’t want. Unless you want to be the secret invisible non-girlfriend?
    So they see your clothes, so what?
    They see your other items, so what?
    In effect he is lying to his kids – do you want to be part of that? Do you want to collaborate? Did you have the idea of hiding from his kids or was it his idea?
    I feel angry, not with you SA, but that what I see as taking crumbs. I want to say please get out of this situation, it will drive you nuts – it is already driving you nuts…
    Ohhhh…I send you much love, you are worth so much more than the invisible friend with benefits.
    No like!

  40.  #40Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 9:46 am


    Yes, good point… I was thinking whereas that should be his job. Thanks for reminding me. I will watch that from now on.

  41.  #41ruth on September 12, 2012 at 9:46 am

    I feel curious about the role modelling

  42.  #42Daria on September 12, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Brandylion – adding men to the mix – Rori style – HELPS with healing and being happy with ourselves. It’s FREE therapy that we don’t have to search out a good therapist or pay hundreds of dollars for.

    As I observe people on the blog it seems it works MUCH FASTER to heal by really engaging in CDing than trying to heal and get happy without men.

    As in YEARS FASTER!!! Which is why I’m such a fan.

    It really feels mind blowing.

    If you’re doing fine with your healing strategy and don’t need help from me or assistance with Rori’s tools – that’s great!

    Please forgive me for interfering there.

  43.  #43Daria on September 12, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Lama – I wonder if you feel so inspired by the man because he’s not pursuing u, in a way unavailable and therefore ‘safe’ to be seen as generating these strong feelings of passion appreciation and love of life?

  44.  #44Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 9:48 am


    26 – LOL, I like what you wrote, and I feel the same way. My Mom always told me watch how a man eats…it will give you a good indication of how he has sex. And she said the opposite is true, encouraging me to eat like a lady, not gulp, LOL.

    When I was with the man who was an alcoholic in Arizona, he didn’t have much of an appetite because of his drinking. Once I was eating a hoagie/sub in a the car, and he was watching me and started laughing. I said, “What??” defensively.

    He said, “You enjoy it, honey! You’re fine! You eat with such enthusiasm! I wish I had an appetite for food.”

    Then I realized he was coming from a place of acceptance and just enjoying me, so I didn’t feel defensive anymore.

  45.  #45Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:49 am

    38 You can’t make the kids think anything, that is manipulation.
    He ought to love you and that is all that counts.
    There need be no manipulation of anybody if he wants a real relationship and marriage. Lying and deceit and pretending is just awful. Of course they will find out.
    I wish you would take your focus off him and date or get out with friends and let him miss you.
    He broke up with you and you now accept crumbs. You should be up in a tower with him courting and begging you to take him back.
    That’s my view.

  46.  #46Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Oh Tam!!! Yup, that’s all true. I am taking the role I don’t want by asking these questions and even being concerned with it. If he wants to hide them, he can. I will leave things the way they are and so be it. He did not ask me to hide anything… why should I be getting into this to start with.

    The question however was that I feel curious about why he is not more concerned about the kids seeing my stuff when he says he broke up with me to them because they dont want to see me anymore. Makes me feel like it’s an excuse for the commitment and a load of cr*a*p that he made worse for his own commitment anxiety or worries.

  47.  #47Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:50 am

    44 Radlove..probably true. My bf was amazing in bed even though he hardly ate…hehehe…

  48.  #48Tam on September 12, 2012 at 9:53 am

    46 SA, yep, it might be his own anxiety speaking and perhaps the kids also pick up on that, especially the oldest. It’s a bit of a mess really, I’d really get myself out of there but I understand that you want to try and mend things.
    ((((Siren Angel))))

  49.  #49Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Makes me feel like it’s an excuse for the commitment and a load of cr*a*p that he made worse – that you have bought into because you are so focussed on pleasing him rather than getting what you want. It is not about the kids. It is about what you are hiding from yourself.

  50.  #50Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Because you want him so badly/desperately.

    I know my words are brutally critical.

  51.  #51Belle on September 12, 2012 at 9:58 am


    Siren Angel

    “Or it’s better that the kids notice and realize they can’t game me out?”

    What the wha now??
    I feel appalled and also amused.
    I invite you to read and re-read and re-re-read
    I feel lightheartedly provocative and am wondering if you are noticing that you are in a power struggle with the KIDS?
    I feel so amused…giggling coming up from my solar plexus and spilling over my tongue..

    How is that working for you??

    If I dated a guy who was trying to out-game my children he’d be out of there so fast.
    I’m just shaking my head…
    oh wow.
    I think you are so invested in getting a ring that you are missing that you don’t really have a partnership.
    With yourself OR this guy.

    have fun with that, work it and enjoy yourself and let us know how it turns out 🙂

  52.  #52Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Belle it is HIS children

  53.  #53Tam on September 12, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Hm. It’s very strange that I am ready to say ‘bye bye’ to MrP just as he is revving up his engines to speed to me. Part of it may be myself overprotecting me, but the other part is definitely the realisation of what I really want.
    I do like the guy, but I don’t like him enough to play a dance around commitment again, or enough to have a long-distance relationship while he is living it up in the big wide world…if that were even on offer.

    I will have wasted time that I could be spending doing other things, meeting other men.

    Guess I don’t feel safe seeing him. I don’t feel safe getting close to someone who is taking his energy to be away from me. Yes, I could ‘wait and see’, but it is a definite he is going and I kinda ignored it.
    It would feel good to clarify what my feelings are when we meet, if we meet, pretty early on.
    What’s the point spending a lovely time together again like we did last time, and I end up alone again.
    Kind of done with that.
    Lots to think about, and analysing my feelings.

  54.  #54Tam on September 12, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Siren Angel, I do feel inclined to agree with the others but maybe you could help us to see what exactly is so great about this man?
    I was also in a bad situation with kids, but one thing I must say for my bf, he always made it clear to the kids that I am the gf, and that they should be happy for him he found someone, and that it’s not negotiable and that they please treat me nicely. And they understood. The son did not speak to me much but I understood that too, with time that would have changed.
    We were at odds over a lot of things but I did have a place there . Without that I would not even have considered dating this man. No matter how wonderful he was and how great I feel in his arms.

  55.  #55Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Siren Angel is it a culture thing that maybe the children are more important to the man than the woman?

  56.  #56Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 10:12 am

    @43 Daria – wow, I feel really curious about this. This guy, yes, he is unavailable and I know that. He does feel safe.

    He represents an idea to me. A wonderful idea.

    He represents an ideal.

    I look at him, and I see him doing things that I would love to be doing, but feel afraid of doing, or feel too inadequate to do.

    I do love the way he treats me, though. Like he cares about me as a person.

    Just respectfully, but the respect means so much for some reason.

    and he always hugs me, which makes me feel safe and protected.

    I guess I don’t feel respect from other people the same way I feel it from him.

    Maybe because he doesn’t know me well enough to feel any kind of “disrespect” for me.

    Wow, this feels sad.

    Like I’m choosing to believe that if he really knew me “of course” he would lose respect for me.

    Is that neccesarily true, though?

  57.  #57Tam on September 12, 2012 at 10:12 am

    haha, so yes, he never replied to my email when normally these days he shoots back straight away….well, good. If he can’t handle me feeling bad talking about his departure then that is ok with me.

    So now the suspense is on because I guarantee you, he will remain in his little man cave until I get there….

    ok. Time to get on the dating website and write to some others.. 🙂

  58.  #58Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:17 am

    FW @55,

    Culture, he is an Italian Jew, so yes the children are VERY important, yet the mother too.

  59.  #59Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Belle @51,

    I was being ironic.

  60.  #60Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:23 am


    “It is not about the kids. It is about what you are hiding from yourself.”

    Maybe I did some sabotage during vacation, after the ring… I could have been smarter about the kids and not get sucked into their game.

  61.  #61new siren on September 12, 2012 at 10:28 am

    I am mostly an observer, but I have to say…Siren Angel plesae stop. It is not about the vacation…it feels like you are being manipulated and played by this guy…it really does. I am so sorry to say you seem lost in the little details.

  62.  #62Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Tam @54,

    I believe for M it is that his 11 yr old has all sorts of issues (psychological, not dealing with the divorce, fake panic attacks, manipulation) and that M subconscioulsy or consciously believes my presence is not helping his son.

    Otherwise, he is a wonderful man, very loving and affectionate, supportive, we are connected, he’s a psychologist so very nurturing, he is amazing with his kids and mine and I feel very very safe with him and the sex is extraordinary for us both and so is the emotional connection. Culturally, we fit and we have a lot of the same values. Actually, the only problem is really the one around the kids because the other small issues we have encountered we have a addressed and truly fixed and both evolved and grown through each other.

  63.  #63ruth on September 12, 2012 at 10:35 am


    I am feeling so sad reading your posts
    You have said the kids are crucially important to M(and it is good that they are)
    but if this is the issue between you, then—
    Oh, I feel icky saying this

    But how can this be resolved

  64.  #64Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:44 am


    I want to connect with them so this can be ‘fixed’. I am not the bad person this makes me look to be.. like the woman the kids hate… And I really believe M could be a little firmer with his kids about it, telling them he loves me and that I am a good person. I AM extremely nice to them, but they are going through some stuff with their parents divorce and such, and it would be the same with any woman, I am sure. Although, my fault is to get sucked into it, things I should have ignored or played down. But how do you get away from the gripping fear that an 11 yr old convokes when he tells you on a Island with no ferries at night that he once threw a hammer at his mothers bck and his father wouln’t protect her? Should I have laughed and said ‘oh, funny, you are trying to me scare me’.

    Ruth, that night we were on our way to a restaurant on the island and 11 yr old was in my car with me and my son. My 7yr old looked at me I could see in the rearview mirror with a look of disbelief on his face. I have not had a panick attack in 15 years and that night at the restaurant I had to go out for air. I didnt tell M but I had a panick attack outside alone in the rain thinking about the hammer story I had just been told.

    It is sooo ironic that he then turns around to his dad to say he doesnt want me around!

  65.  #65Smile on September 12, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Hi Tam, thanks for letting me know bout fb. Thinking I might join under a new profile. Hmm I feel protective over my surname is my only reason…?

    ((Ruth)) sorry missed your posts, I fell asleep!

    Oo what run is in oct? Or is it a conference?
    Are you familiar with Christies hospital being in the medical profession?

  66.  #66Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 10:46 am

    But they are kids, and I understand them, and I am sticking around. Believe me, a lot of women would have run away not from M but from the kids!!!

  67.  #67bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 10:47 am

    (((((((((((((Siren Angel)))))))))))))) omg i’m feeling awful imagining you offering to clean out the waste bin

  68.  #68Smile on September 12, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Tam it felt great to read you want a 100% and could a guy who’s planning to move away give you this? Your vibe and Boundaries around this feel strong.

  69.  #69bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 10:50 am

    siren angel, that story wasn’t just about the kids, eh? it was about how M treated the mother in relation to the kids. sorry for that “innocent question” in my phrasing. i don’t intend to “catch” you in it. i just also feel scared & i’m noticing that the story might show you something that you don’t want to see & i feel curious how you felt after bringing it up with M…

  70.  #70ruth on September 12, 2012 at 10:52 am

    65 Smile sleep is wonderful stuff

    ive ben deprived of it for years!

    yeah, course I have heard of Christies(its renowned(.Im a kidney doc though

    Im at a conf in October on thur and fri then got a marathon in milton keynes on the sat and another in chester on the sunday

    they organisers at MK have kindly agreed to start late so we parkrun addicts can get our fix at nine


  71.  #71Belle on September 12, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “Belle it is HIS children”
    I know, I got it.
    I meant, if I were in his shoes.

    “he is amazing with his kids and mine”

    Did I totally misinterpret a bunch of posts before that were voicing your frustration with how he doesn’t discipline his children in a way that you are comfortable with?

    I feel amazed…like, wow, did I completely and totally misunderstand the entire situation???!!

    New Siren

    It looks to me like they are manipulating each other.

    I almost feel like I should get a bucket of popcorn and watch, this situation almost seems surreal to me.
    Probably a sign to start skipping the SA posts.
    I wish you all the best, I really do, SA. It’s probably not helpful that I feel so amused so I’ll bow out.

  72.  #72Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 11:03 am

    @26 Tam – I love this, and totally agree. It feels soooo attractive when a man has a healthy appetite! I feel triggered when a man eats less than me. It feels good to see a man enjoying his food.

    But it also feels triggering when a larger man gorges on unhealthy stuff in front of me too.

    That makes me feel kind of icky…

  73.  #73Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Smile, thank you. I hope my boundaries remain strong, because I like him so much.
    But I like myself more….now.
    I feel a little sad but these are growing pains. I know he has come a long way, but he won’t give up his dream for me – and I don’t expect him to. All will be ok. It’s up to him now, and up to me to accept/not accept what he can give. Sigh.
    Just the fact that he has gone quiet again tells me a lot….the pattern is still there, sadly.

  74.  #74ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:07 am


    Oh heck I feel scared reading your post

    How horrendous was that situation?
    Of course you are not a bad person
    I am just glad your son is removed from it

    Look, i dont have kids so am no expert, but that sort of behavior feel so wrong to me and , yeah, i am not sure why you stay to tolerate it.However wonderful M is

    Goiung through stuff cos of a divorce-yes
    Violence of that order

    yeah, Id be having panic attacks tooand running in the opposite direction

    Please take care

  75.  #75ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Tam , sory not to comment

    You have come so far too and you will stay strong, I feel sure of this

  76.  #76Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Thank you Ruth, I hope so. I try hard to have no expectations but for this situation to work, to be honest, it would take a miracle at this stage. That’s what’s sad about it. It is actually hopeless really, I realise that my needs have become so strong…. ((((mrP)))) he will have a tough battle to ‘convince’ me if he so wishes.
    But hey, I owe it to me to stay strong.

  77.  #77Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Ruth and smile are you coming to Siren Island? That would feel soooo good, I miss you on there 🙂

  78.  #78Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I feel fluttery and strange. Like I’m not really here.

    Just shown someone round my house, feels more real now. I’m actually moving!!!

  79.  #79Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:25 am

    (((smile))) I used to hate showings on my home, and being one foot in and one foot out of a place.. Unsettling… You sound in goods spirits considering 🙂

  80.  #80Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Tam, I’m leaning closer! 

  81.  #81Starla on September 12, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Warrior is all complainingcomplainingcomplaining all day about his diet and how bad it sucks to be on it.

    i feel kind of negative-rolled.

    i want romantic, happy vibes.

    i’m just not going to respond i guess.

    it feels scary but seriously, i want to take care of me and the kind of stuff i let be fed to me.

    and just send him loving vibes and hope he feels better soon

  82.  #82Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Aw, a cute flower. I feel very petaly 😉

  83.  #83ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Siren angel

    I have just read your post again and i feel so scared for you

    I was going to say I felt triggered, but that would almost be belittling what I do think about this.For me , this is not a feeling that needs healing.To me, violence is an *absolute* no -no
    its non negotiable
    I do not think i could be with a man who condoned it, in any shape or form which seems to be what M is doing

    If i have got that wrong, forgive me, but what the 1 year old child said to you struck chills into my heart.he is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and that would have scared me witless too.And it scares me more that M does not seem to worry about it

    Of course, i am not thre in your situation, and i may have got some bits wrong, but
    maybe your fear is legitimate

    Please take care

  84.  #84Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Surprisingly feeling good actually, it’s a good nervous… Like Rori says maybe something’s in store for me!!! Love my nervous jitters!

  85.  #85Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:28 am

    He he, here’s a bunch for you tam 

  86.  #86ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Tam, BW will sort me out when she is awake
    (re Siren island)

  87.  #87Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Ruth, thought you would know it. I will be living very close.

  88.  #88ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Smile, ah nice!

    I have always felt comfy and safe around hospitals, though thats probbaly the last thing i should feel he he

  89.  #89Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Tam, I often feel like this with strummingman bacause of my feelings for him… I love myself more too though.

    I won’t be getting sucked back I to the pattern for crumbs.

    I remember posting something from Rori about this. Something like… If your feelings are this intense for a man offering crumbs, imagine what it would feel like to be in a real, warm loving , connected relationship! I don’t want to block my chance of this by taking the crumbs.

  90.  #90Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:37 am

    A bunch of flowers…thank you Smile 😉
    Been a while since I had one of them!!!

  91.  #91Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:40 am

    He he I feel playful! I feel like a cheeky monkey!

  92.  #92Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Smile you and me both. Time to suck up the crumbs into a hoover and grab the nice big cake instead!!! When it comes along!! 🙂
    I feel happy that we can do it!!! 🙂

  93.  #93Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Ruth, here’s a flower for you 

  94.  #94Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Tam!!! And not just a slice of cake ! We want the whole cake !

    I feel like I’m inspired and going for gold!

  95.  #95ruth on September 12, 2012 at 11:44 am


    thank you Smile

  96.  #96Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Siren Angel – But how do you get away from the gripping fear that an 11 yr old convokes

    All I can say is WOW. I really hope you take the advice being given on the blog and really read what you are writing as an observer watching someone else’s drama.

    I have committed to myself that I will never live in a house with kids that I am afraid of. Definitely not my own and my kids can tell you that because they know. I wonder if you realize that pretty soon they will become teenagers with the possibility of behavior becoming worse.

    Though I am not convinced this is about the kids.

  97.  #97Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Hehe, I love the little pics, Smile, very cute!

    Oh yes, the whole cake. With a ring hidden in it!! Ha!!!

    Going for gold too. We owe it to ourselves. Not a perfect man, but perfect for us.
    I believe he exists.

  98.  #98Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:53 am

    ((Siren angel)) you deserve the whole cake too , we all do!

  99.  #99forest siren on September 12, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I had an interesting morning. I was with a cd practicing. I did the rr stance. I was quiet and listened. I appreciated him verbally and I talked in feelings. The rr stance made him cross the room to me. But he also opened up and really shared some personal things with me – they moved me to tears and I let him see that. I talked about how moved I felt. It was scary to let him see that but I feel closer to him because of it. Wow!

    Also I feel curious about what Daria has been saying here recently. I have always found that when I am told to trust myself it is so empowering but maybe I should be more cognizant of the rules. I’m not sure I know we re all here to learn and are doing our very bet.

    SA oh boy! Your story is sooooo triggering for me. It reminds me of a power struggle I was in for a long time with another woman over a man. Yuck. The bottom line was I did everything to not rock the boat to keep the peace as I was so afraid of losing him. I took myself off the table so easily so as not to make it difficult for him. I pretended I didn’t exist in order to say I won’t be the one to cause any drama here because there is so much of it there. I put his peace of mind and his comfort ahead of mine every time.

    I’m not saying your situation is the same just that it is triggering me. I still believe you know your man and your situation best.

  100.  #100Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Siren Angel sorry.

    “It is sooo ironic that he then turns around to his dad to say he doesnt want me around!”

    He might like you enough to be trying to tell you RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. If you would only listen.

  101.  #101forest siren on September 12, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Sorry for all typos.

    Smile can I have a flower too please? That would make me feel included and it would feel fun!

  102.  #102Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:57 am

    My boundaries are strong

    I can feel and honour my feelings

    I feel in the moment

    I feel high quality

    I feel excited about the future

  103.  #103Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 11:59 am

    RE 89 Smile those words are stuck in my head too.

  104.  #104Smile on September 12, 2012 at 11:59 am

     this ones for you forest siren!

    Feels good to give!

  105.  #105Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I declare:
    Flowers and Cake for everybody tonight!!!!

  106.  #106Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    here’s a flower for you too feminiwoman!

    FW, those words have Helped me soo much!

  107.  #107forest siren on September 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    What a pretty flower! Thanks smile! <3

  108.  #108Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Tam hehe! cocktail anyone lol…

  109.  #109ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    oh yes

    what will it be like when child is a big strapping 16 year old with no boundaries

    SA, you felt scared and that was appropriate in my book.You had every right to!

    Stay safe, please

  110.  #110Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Oh, better idea!! Cocktails!! Soon in Florida!!!

  111.  #111ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:03 pm


    Dont mind if i do

  112.  #112Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Ruth, I’d get us a lovely round of Pina’s, Daiquiris and Martinis when you ladies are coming to see me in Florida 😉

  113.  #113ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Martini it has gin
    I *like* gin


  114.  #114Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Thanks for the flowers. I will start planning my trip. Oh but I don’t know where in Florida. Hope it’s close to grandpa Disney

  115.  #115Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I just felt an hhhhmm about the reference to sugar in the article. Remembering how I heard that fungus feeds on sugar. Maybe the reason for the uncontrollable craving?

  116.  #116Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Oo yey! I’ll have a mojito! Oo tam Florida would be fun!!

  117.  #117Mel on September 12, 2012 at 12:10 pm


    On dating when you feel really pressed for time:

    When I read your FM about preferring to date on the weekends, I felt a little bad and ‘chastised’… (like I was-if I were a man- ‘wrong’ for suggesting a week-day date).

    “I don’t feel good trying to squeeze a date in on a work day; I want to feel relaxed and comfortable when meeting a man. I’m available on Friday.”

    I feel a little nervous to mention this though, because I feel ‘sure’ that that was not your intent.

    If I might share with you a few instances when I was feeling too ‘busy’ to date and what happened…

    I was in the midst of moving (packing etc.), I had a big feelance project deadline, and was busy enough with my regular day-job. I also had my own interests that took up time as well.

    I was asked out during this stressful time and said something like:

    “Awww… I feel smiley receiving your dinner invitation, and that makes me feel like being ‘rescued’ from all of this ‘stuff’ I feel inclined to accomplish today… but then I feel all tense and anxious and overwhelmed when I think of all the ‘catch-up’ work that will be waiting for me if I skip out on my ‘duties’… Friday would feel sooooooo much more easy-breezy for me. What do you think?”

    His reply: Sorry you’re feeling overwhelmed Mel! But you have to eat don’t you? What would you say if I were to bring you some yummy food and we could take a 30 min break together? Then we can plan a fun date for the weekend when you’re feeling less stressed?

    It was a great compromise and HE came up with the solution.

  118.  #118Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Oh I do like a good G&T

    Fw, head north of Miami and I’ll meet you on the beach with cool drink in hand 🙂

  119.  #119Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Oh yey FW Disney! Forgot bout that lol! My friend went last year.

  120.  #120Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Forest siren/Daria – since I read the do’s and dont’s about body language I keep practicing in front of the mirror and realize this about the hardest part of the Rori Raye way for me. It feels unnatural to stand with one foot in front though it looks sexy when I see other women standing like that. Also with shoulders down and hand facing forward feels strange. One thing I notice was that I felt drawn into leaning forward as I watched myself leaning backwards in the mirror.

  121.  #121ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Yet another example of feeling messages working
    I feel so envious!

    I want to be able to do it

  122.  #122Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Smile, I make a good home made Mojito, MrP loves it….but unlike me he did not spend two decades in the UK, so when he tries to get me tipsy I drink him under the table 😉
    Homemade Mojito for all!! (I don’t put much sugar in it at all, lots of lime – almost healthy) 😉

  123.  #123Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Mel you are such a natural.

  124.  #124Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Cocktails, and cakes and flowers, OH MY! 🙂

  125.  #125Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    I’ve just sent a collegue I work with a heart felt thank you. I’ve said thank you so much to her already but today a lot happened at work and I realise how tough we actually had it.

    Do you know how we got through these incredibly hard times… We laughed! and laughed! Oh we cried often too but after a while it felt so exhausting we could have sunk but instead we pulled ourselves up and flew through the clouds! It took a change in ourmindset to not let ourselves sink with the ship. This has made me stronger. It takes a special person to achieve this with. It feel good to let her know.

  126.  #126ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    125 Smile

    well, I feel glad to read that you know

    we dont say thank you enough
    we dont say well done enough

    I fel good reading your post
    (I am in text convo about a patient with a nurse colleague and having a laugh)

    neither of us should be working really, but

  127.  #127Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Hi goddess lily, here’s yours! It’s feeling good for me to give tonight.

    Mel, a flower for you too 

  128.  #128Mel on September 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm


    And I liked Ruth’s suggestion about attracting someone into your life who also likes to run. That way, you are not ‘sacrificing’ your time… just sharing in a fun activity together.

  129.  #129Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Feminine Woman,

    You know I think you are very wise and I value your thoughts and opinions greatly.

    Then, can I ask you, if it is not about the kids, then what do YOU think/feel this is all about?

  130.  #130ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    128 yeah mel and it means someone else understands your obsession with times and kit and shoes and toenails and blisters and schedules

    even if they are just friends

    I run alone

    i have many friends who I share my running with
    It is awfully boring to the rest of the world

  131.  #131Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm


    I am watching my 7 yr old that I just picked up from school eating his after school usual ice cream, vanilla-chocolate soft ice cream swirl in a bowl with smarties. He always orders the same way and the girls at the ice cream place
    find this adorable ‘May I please have soft
    vanilla and chocolate ice cream in a bowl with smarties and a spoon please’.

    I am thinking he deserves better.

  132.  #132Mel on September 12, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Thanks for the flower Smile!

    FW… I was not so much of a ‘natural’ when I started. 😉 You, for one, really helped me reflect on how I was feeling (or trying hard not to feel).

  133.  #133ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Aw SA

    your little one sounds like such a little gentle gentleman


  134.  #134ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    SA he deserves the world and a happy momma

  135.  #135Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Unfortunately he has to sleep at his dads again tonight because I still have those huge dryer noisy machines in my house for 2 more days because of the flood.

    I feel a little lost and like my life is totally upside down right now.

  136.  #136ruth on September 12, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    you *are* taking care of the little man

    take care of you too, hey?

  137.  #137Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Tam, I had my drink spiked last summer. It’s such a horrible lack of memory, it still feels haunting. I was safe but I’m very weary now of meeting guys when Im out.

    I drink in moderation now, little but often! I don’t like how tooo much alcohol makes me feel. Last time I was drunk was when it turned bad between strummingman and I. I believe I spoke my truth to him, all those stuffed feelings came out in a blamey way. I believe this made him feel differently towards me from this point too. This was just before we moved intogether last year. That’s the last time I remember being ‘drunk’ it’s not a nice feeling memory. I bottled up feelings about money.

    I do go out and drink and get drunk but I know my limit. I stop when I feel relaxed as opposed to drunk now. I dont need it to make me relaxed though.

    Mostly I have a glass of wine with my tea, and a few at weekend. I can handle a few cocktails!

  138.  #138Daria on September 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    i am tapping thru the 3rd chakra tonite and boy i feel some relief from all that 2nd chakra, apthetic puddle waves fo hopelessness type feelings


    and im feeling excited to get to a place where i feel good!

    i feel so excited to heal what im tapping on oh

    smh with amazement yessss

    all this energy im gonna heal through my 3rd chakra yay and on up and ill feel so free and open after yum i feel expansive already and freer and more powerful

    and LESS pushy and scared to offer my gifts and say

    yes i can help you!

    follow me and i can help you!

    yes finally i will be able to use my wisdom and knowledge to help my family and peoples and beings without feeling extreme dread, disassociating from my body with dizziness, over explaining to control their reaction, and the ‘pushy energy’ just melts away

    SIGH 🙂

    weeeeeeee giddy feeling ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

    i will receive and feel received after alll yum yum yum

    feeling some mhmmmm pleasure

  139.  #139Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Your welcome Mel 

  140.  #140Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Siren Angel I truly believe that you don’t want to accept that this man is not yet READY to make the big commitment. He seems to be invested. He seems to love you but not adoring and cherishing you.

    Men can and do walk away from relationships with women that they love deeply because they are not willing to commit. I can’t see how any woman can be happy in a relationship unless she feels adored and cherished. It is a blessing to behold a couple who is in that place.

  141.  #141Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Same here Smile. Actually, I like feeling relaxed and a little tipsy but can’t even remember the last time I was drunk.
    It makes me want to lean forward and I get very emotional, so most I have is about two glasses of wine… Or a cocktail or two.

  142.  #142Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Daria, here’s your flower 

    This pic makes me think of you actually hmm maybe it’s because you posted once about dancing?

  143.  #143Smile on September 12, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    a flower for you too siren angel!

  144.  #144Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Siren Angel I believe if you are honest with yourself you will admit that you have other options around where to sleep. I know how you feel but crawling back to a man who has broken up with you when you are in a vulnerable place changes nothing for him. Maybe if I knew that he called you up and discovered the flood. Then came over packed you up and insisted that you stay at his home I might feel differently.

  145.  #145Tam on September 12, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    FW, I’ll second that. It is true that a man can be in love and go through all the motions but not feel like committing – for lots of reasons. For us women this is impossible to grasp because we are different…
    But it is the truth. And I feel also that is the crux in Siren Angels situation.
    He can only change himself – no matter what you or the kids do…makes no difference.

  146.  #146Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    FeminineWoman – ohhh i feel excited!

    i got that body stuff DOWN, especially when i feel a bit confident

    to open my palms to the front, that used to feel scary, but now the past few days i did it even while walking down the street

    it helped me to raise my shoulders up to my ears, and Hike up my chest a bit! – then drop the shoulders gently opening palms to front.

    lifting my chest up a touch (Rori mentioned lifting boobs as flirty before!) helped me keep my hands open to the front a bit more naturally…

    Feminine Woman i believe Bellydancing really helps me a lot with the softening and body position stuff

    sometimes i find after ive been practicing weekly that im moving fluidly and people stare at me as i get out the car, etc, even women with babies and all, it feels like the world will stop and stare…

    i remember feeling overwhelmed sometimes, and sometimes feeling exhilarated and powerful…

    i notice a lot of my tension goes in my chest/ heart and in my jaw/cheeks

    THAT i want to practice releasing, i fee kinda annoyed that Rori doesnt talk about those areas as much… especially the face cheek parts

    and my eyes kinda unfocus when im feeling terrified (socially)

    uhoh, i feel embarassed ive rambled a bit as i felt scared and went into my pattern of talking a lot after sharing info to CONTROL RESPONSES HEHE But now im super aware of it as this is what im tapping on 3rd chakra

    Bellydancing feels so softening!

    its all about standing on the back leg

    i can even do body rolls on my back heel, i feel so much energy running thru me right now hehe maybe its tingly maybe i can call it “anxious?” energy?

    i feel frantic that im missing something i want to communicate and i feel excited i know its coming…

    sigh… 🙂

    OH YES!!!!!

    its that ive been practicing with Men and now when i go on a date and im with a man, its like a TRIGGER to get into that soft lean back physical space!

    it feels so easy to get that way around a man on a date…!

    i want to extend that feeling to feel comfortable that way around my family too, thats where ive noticed myself tightening up and not leaing back or open…

    feeling heart squeeze

    i feel DIFFERENT writing this tahn before… i feel more open and i feel more aware of my HEART squeezing mmm

    i feel laughy and so happy my 3rd chakra tapping is healing me so amazingly mmmm

    i feel all softened with pleasure at feeling loved by universe


    smiling up

  147.  #147Smile on September 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    I’ve not read my book properly since my hols now, there’s always something else to do. Or I fall asleep because I’m feeling too tired to read.

    I’m taking myself off to bed 2 hours early to get completely absorbed in the story again. It would feel great to lean back in my thoughts tonight.


    Filling the blog with flowers feels lovely right now.

    Night sirens x

  148.  #148Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Wow Daria. I asked my zumba teacher if we could do some bellydancing in class. She said yes but have not gotten to it yet. I guess it is time to remind her.

  149.  #149ruth on September 12, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    The Rori Raye Dance position

    yeah, makes sense to me
    it is waht i do whan i am listening to my patients

    leanright back, open up my chest and my hands and my heart

    never realised i did that

    it lets them speak to me

  150.  #150Tam on September 12, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Night Smile!! Xx

  151.  #151Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Siren Angel,

    I agree with Tam. They “go through all the motions” and this is how we get stuck. We see A (some nice words) and B (maybe a few nice actions) and feel like C (commitment) just has to follow but it doesn’t always.

  152.  #152ruth on September 12, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    I never used FM

    but it just worked if i leant back and opened my body
    Sort of got that after many years of consultations

  153.  #153Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    I feel so amazing! I just wanted to share that with the world. Feels like something exciting is about to happen. My LIFE is exciting. So much going on for me, with me. I love it. So many opportunities, so much learning, so much connecting and listening and feeback. It feels like the world is a flower opening up for me, and I’m dancing in the center, feeling fragranced and feminine and sparkly and wonderful!

  154.  #154Iamabutterfly on September 12, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    I love my hormonal mood swings. I feel curious about them. It feels like a purging of the icky, and an opening to the glorious.

  155.  #155Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Thanks Smile !!! i just see a lil box and im imagining a beautiful flower for Me and i feel loved and girly 🙂 and soft

  156.  #156Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    FeminineWoman – i find that teachers are all different, mmm well it all helps tho…

    getting a teacher who ‘gets’ energy even if she doesnt talk about it out loud much feels sooo big eyez hypnotizing and smh in wonder

  157.  #157Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Ah i feel so relieved and free liek so much tightness and pressure on me/ in me? has been relieved

    i feel open i can even open up my forehead and my eyes wow

    smh this pleasure yum

  158.  #158Starla on September 12, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    I’ve been thinking so much about becoming a vegetarian

    or just only eating meat around my period (which makes me feel very very good)

    or eating meat only on the weekends

    i dunno

    it just keeps coming to me

  159.  #159Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    so exhilarated saying CAN YOU IMAGINE !!! that i will be able to share ALL I KNOW with my family when they need it most!!!

    and i will be heard and i will be able to help them heal???

    no more heartbreak and desperatelly watching feeling powerless yet holding all the helpful answers


    all my gifts and all the amazing information/knowledge/whatever it is that i have all of that i will be able to share now and actually HELP people

    i wont die from grief of having to hold it and not have it be heard “cuz im not a good communicator” and watching my loved ones suffer “cuz im not amazing enough to get the message across”

    ohhhhh my heart feels compassion for me and i feel so… wide

  160.  #160Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    i feel a lill tight around my jaw feeling all that compassion whcih feels a lil squeezy in my chest and almost like i would cry and now its tight all in my head across my right eye mmmm :/ that doesnt feel so good

    mmmm tight in my heart mmm


    yes i willl be healing the 4th chakra ughhurgh next

    hehehah release tesnion

  161.  #161Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Starla try it for a day or maybe a week. Babysteps. I did it some years ago though Dominique recently suggested grass fed meat. I use turkey leg when I feel I need meat but mostly I eat salmon.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    My teacher talks about energy. She combines yoga, ballet, pilates you name it into her zumba classes. He has us dance while touching and hugging ourselves. Sexy walking across the floor. Lying down melting into the floor or becoming one with the environment. You name it she is into it.

  163.  #163Mel on September 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Is it ‘normal’ to spot a little while on the bcp?

  164.  #164Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    I love sugar but not ‘messed with’ stuff that doesn’t get love from people being made

    i can really tell the difference with cantina food too, like if its made in big batches and without love it doesnt’ feel as good

    theres a smaller self serve shop down the street and that food Does have some love in it i feel giggly

    i honor and love my food before eating and give compassion to the divine being that it was even if it got unappreciated along the way

    jerks head (jerking when energy moves thru me now)

  165.  #165Starla on September 12, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    thanks fw, when my period is over i will:)

  166.  #166ruth on September 12, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    I absolutely *love* meat and eat my steak *blue*

    But happily go days and days without

    plenty of other sources of protein

  167.  #167Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I did too ruth but after having researched how it is handled, particularly in slaughterhouses here in the US I had no qualms of letting it go. I just don’t have any craving or appetite for it anymore.

  168.  #168Starla on September 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    163 mel

    totally normal

  169.  #169Starla on September 12, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    i already eat organic, grassfed, etc.

  170.  #170Smile on September 12, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    I feel distracted, like I can’t feel focused reading the page. I want to feel absorbed in my book. I get to the end of the page and can’t remember what’s happened.

    I’m constantly thinking. My brain feels wirry, I can feel the cogs ticking all the time.

    I’m lying down flat. I can feel my back ache a little as it adjusts, my neck feels a little awkward from my extra pillow.
    My feet feel chilly, I can feel the cold running up my legs too. My thumb feels itchy too.

    Going to try and read my book again. Everytime I start thinking and going to switch to feeling. I’m going to take care of myself first and warm my feet.

  171.  #171Smile on September 12, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Daria, you flower is pretty and pink. I gave you a dancing lady in a red dress too.

  172.  #172Smile on September 12, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Starla, I’ve been a vegetarian for 20 years.

  173.  #173ruth on September 12, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    mel, yes , it can be
    But you might need to change your pill

  174.  #174turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Siren Angel….. I feel angry at you right now. What in the world are you doing to yourself and your son? Why would you want to subject him to a LIFE and FUTURE with an unstable older sibling? Even if you are not worried for yourself, what about him? This feels very unfair to me. It might be different if you said the child was in therapy…. but his father is a psychologist, and his idea of handling it is to just remove you and your child from the situation…. wtf is that?

    Pack up your stuff, empty the waste basket, get the heck out of there and take your son to a hotel with a swimming pool for the night. You both deserve a mini vacation after all the crap you’ve endured with this family. They aren’t ready, and you are taking crumbs.

    I’m sorry I sound so harsh. But my heart went into my throat when I read what that child said to you, and then realized you WANT this in your life and your sons.

  175.  #175Mel on September 12, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Thanks Starla and ruth…

    Why might I need to change my pill? I’ve been taking it now for almost 6 months, and this is the first spotting episode.

  176.  #176Daria on September 12, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    “Do you have relatives you’d like to see eat healthier but they just laugh at your ways and mock you? Do they even go as far s to suggest that you might be lacking something in your diet? Trust me, I know what it’s like.

    “When I try to tell some of my family how bad some of the packaged foods I see them consuming are, I get so frustrated when they don’t seem to get it. Why would they want to drink soda or Gatorade with bromine in it (an endocrine disruptor used as a fire-retardant and found in many foods other than soda) or eat foods loaded with genetically modified grains and nitrates? It took me a long time to realize that it wasn’t that they didn’t love me or trust what I was telling them but it was that THEY DIDN’T ACQUIRE THE INFORMATION ON THEIR OWN….

    The best way to help a family member is to gently provide them with information like movies articles and books if they’ll read them, feed them healthy foods when they visit your home and be patient with them. Don’t ever give up though. They are listening in their own ways. Make sure you find a supportive community like we have here at Primitive Mommy. It helps so much to surround yourself with like-minded people, even if your only option is online.””

    Primitive Mommy

  177.  #177Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    i notice im sharing a lot – this happens after i tap out 3rd chakra… all aobut putting myself out there

    i still feel some sadness and fear having shared some stuff but also didn’t share other stuff such as feeling triggered a bit and unseen and scared


    im way more aware, tho i wonder if my Habits are still there and now the tweaking will be much easier

    throws head aback as energy jerks thru me …

    and again


    i feel so glad i know this is an energy thng and not some disorder ive developed the last few months

    sometimes i feel scared my parents will decide its a disorder and

    sometimes i not very often have q myself if its a disorder but

    then i remember that its clarly energy related and that i asked for a way to be really clear when im shifting energy and thats when this came up after that intense tapping about rewiring my nervous system

    mmm im feeling panicked of being jdugd type type explain keep talking lol


    i feel so delighted with myeslf hehe

  178.  #178Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Mel – ah, i wish you weren’t taking them at all, i feel sadness concern for you… i didn’t feel good with how they affected me, got an abnormal pap too, and i’ve heard worse than that from other women… 🙁

  179.  #179Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    haha i am so cool

  180.  #180Mel on September 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Hey Daria,

    Funnily enough, I think I’m one of those women that feels better on bcp. Without, I get horrible horrible cramping, really bad skin, menstrual migraines, and plus I DO want the intended ‘birth control’ effect.

  181.  #181Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I have so much energy!!!

    note ! when working on 2nd chakra, work on 3rd chakra so the energy doesn’t get stuck and ocean wave around !

    this way the healing is going UP and i feel just BEAMY

  182.  #182Sassy on September 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    What if we all woke up tomoro and had NO memories, NO past, NO previous pain, NO Prior relationships?
    How would you go forward? What would you like your life to look like?

  183.  #183Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Mel – i hear you about the pregnancy prevention,
    i feel more sad about long term issues esp if you already have issues like mood and skin hormone related…

    stuff like cancer, depletion of minerals, loss of ‘in tuneness’ w nature and spirit and just overall body poisoning stuff


    i felt cool on it too and i also gained weight where i wanted, but i noticed – looking back afterwards – i had been a bit emotionally not as intuitive or in tune w myself sexually/emotionally

    and also i got that issue with the pap and … that felt terrifying

    i feel glad remembering through that through that experience it was the first time i was in a position to say No to a doctor – about doing a cervical biopsy – and got me interested in natural health and now im a Medicine Woman

    so im sure if this is what you want, then it will take you somewhere healing for you…

    my heart squeezes a bit with fear though and so does my tummy, id rather it be a gentler way for you

    good luck babe 🙁 !

  184.  #184ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Hi Sirens! I’ve been away for a bit, but thought I’d pop in and say hello! Work has been crazy busy and school is taking up time, so I can’t dilly dally much. I hope you are all doing well. I haven’t even been able to read anything for a while.

    Mr. Observant & I are still good. His divorce was continuing in a bad way, but then last court date, things changed and they agreed upon some visitation after a bit of a struggle. After that, she told him she wants the divorce to be finished, too much stress, she even talking about backing out of it because she has more rights married. I think she’s realizing she isn’t going to get what she wants and that she will not have as much money, he will be able to see the kids without her present and she will need to get a job. Since then, Jabber seems to be “nicer”. I feel distrustful of her “niceness”.

    I asked him if he wants to back out and he said no. If she does, then he will need to petition. The saga continues. I really hope she’s having a change of heart about how she’s been acting and really does want to just come to an agreement and get it over with. However, I’m feeling very leary of it all.

    I hope everyone had a nice summer. It’s seems like fall is upon us. I will be a lot less stressed after the middle of October. So, so much going on.

  185.  #185ruth on September 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    was on bcp for over 20 years and was fine on it actually

    its not all bad
    but we are all different, accerpt that

    for me, well, i didnt want to get pregnant ang that was the overriding issue

  186.  #186Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm


    (((my sadness)))

    my guilt talking about my sadness when triggered by compassion towards someone else – guilt for maybe scaring or triggering guilt in them ((((guilt)))

    whoa that feels really cool to write, like im discovering me

    head snaps sideways

    bird head

    pigeon head


    head bounces

  187.  #187Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    ruth – but you seem really depressed now (sorry)

  188.  #188Starla on September 12, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Sassy, that is a beautiful question. thank you

  189.  #189Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    wow whew can i cope with communicating this directly? (((heart squeeze)))


    (((hunkering over fear)))

  190.  #190ruth on September 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm


    Fair play, I am out of sorts tonight
    Um, I have tasted real suicidal depression a few years ago
    Its not like that now
    I have been better, yep, but Im not so bad

    thank you for noticing

  191.  #191ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Ok, so I can relate to this article. On our first date, Mr. Observant was drinking Monsters like they were going out of style. I personally don’t like energy drinks, but a lot of people love them. After his bipolar, he stopped drinking them. When I read up on bipolar, they say those drinks and caffeine are bad for it. He took up coffee instead of Monsters. I didn’t like that, but in my opinion, coffee is better than Monsters.

    Recently, he’s been wanting Monsters. He had one the other day and I found myself trying to talk him out of it because I’m afraid it will cause an episode. He knows I don’t want him drinking them, but he had one and said, in moderation it’s ok. Then, he said, you know I can get a case at Sam’s and it would be cheaper. I didn’t comment and then he laughed and said to me, “I was just joking.” After that, I felt I should stop because I felt myself being controlling. Now, I feel bad for saying anything.

  192.  #192ruth on September 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    oh Daria
    if you are relating to the BCP, not been on it for 7 years, sorry if you didnt mean that

  193.  #193ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @5 Radlove

    Wow, that is a letter with a lot of feeling in it. It sounds like K has said things you didn’t feel he should repeat to other people or say in general? I feel sad you feel you can’t trust him and you needed to write this letter. That’s an awful feeling to have about a friend.

  194.  #194Annie on September 12, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Grrrr. I feel irritated, I read words literally and write them literally. I feel so frustrated when other people not on hear different forum then respond and write things that I have not written. Changing my words to then give totally different meaning and making stuff up. GRRRRRRR!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH, Vampire scream!!!!! I feel sad that I have no control over others doing this. Sometimes it feels so very difficult to communicate and then I feel lonely sad. It feel great when I have those rare moment where i just gell with someone and this doesn’t happen.

    I really really really dislike evasive wishy washy language it makes me feel off balance and unsafe. It feels meaningless and non committal. It’s like I am talking to a politician, I feel manipulated when this happens it makes me feel unnerved,

    My heart hurts. Why does it hut I don’t know it just does.

    tears, I feel drained and tired, feel better now.
    Feels tome for tea.

  195.  #195Annie on September 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Ty for the posts by Ashley FW, they resonate.

  196.  #196Dancing Siren on September 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm


    This post makes me feel a little triggered.

    S has chaged every thing for me!

  197.  #197Starla on September 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    “Changing my words to then give totally different meaning and making stuff up.”

    drives me nuts too

  198.  #198ruth on September 12, 2012 at 2:51 pm


  199.  #199ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    @24 Radloe

    I can relate to the smoking thing too. Mr. Observant smokes, more when he was manic and I think for stress relief, but I also don’t care for the smell or taste. However, I haven’t said anything about smoking. It’s his habit to deal with. He keeps saying about quitting and I hope he does one day, but it has to be his decision.

  200.  #200Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    hmm i notice after 3rd chakra work I seem to ‘blurt’ more

    which feels liberating and then also scared… i fear the backlash as a rock the boat of my past identity

    the blurts don’t come out in feeling messages though so I want to take the time to translate all my new expressiveness

    i feel sad thinking of that cuz it seems so effortful when just expressing feels so damn freeing

    sigh 🙁

    but then if i Do translate it will feel evern More powerful And i will feel safer!

  201.  #201Dominique on September 12, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Femininewoman – 161 – don’t think it was me. I don’t meat but am not against it, for there are some constitutions which require it or feel better with it.

    I do highly recommend salmon for many reasons.


  202.  #202ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    @30 Siren Angel

    I think you should stop worrying so much. He is obviously not concerned with the kids seeing your things & knowing you were there. Just breathe, relax & let it go. It feels good to me not having to worry about hiding and being secretive. Enjoy it!

  203.  #203Daria on September 12, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    ruth – sorry if that triggered you… for me an acupuncturist told me that I’m depressed one time and it felt really surprisingly eye opening for me and helped me a lot… I ‘got’ it in the moment right then and helped me make some changes in how i was treating myself and my boundaries with others got stronger as i took greater care of what I saw as a more vulnerable me (rather than beating myself up more)

    the truth is i feel concern and yes you do seem quite depressed to me

    and also yes taking a long time bcp could have been a cause or big contributor of that

    but if this isn’t helpful to you feel free to ignore it, its only a ‘seeming’ that’s only worth noting if its useful in some way, otherwise it’s just a passing thought

  204.  #204Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    I feel there is a lot for me in this article. Mr. C. kept saying that he didn’t want me to try and change him, or influence him to change him. He felt very resistant to that. We’ve had some great conversations since then, realizing when judgements come up and we share them in the moment… even in a joking way, to say, stop judging me… and we handle it in the moment. He does it too. But, i’m sure I do that with other people too… without even realizing or thinking about it consciously. I’m going to try and be much more clear with my words. Choose them, speak in feeling messages and consider not only the effect, but the possible consequences of my words.

    I wish I was a chess player. To consider what my actions now, will result in down the road. I don’t really work that way. I can get caught up in an idea of what I want, and try to make that happen or pressure it into my timeline… but I don’t know that I ever really think about the big idea, what it takes to get there, and what will ruin it. I have so many thoughts tonight. Need to process them.

  205.  #205Daria on September 12, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    i feel scared people are gossipping/talking bad about me on blog, but i feel scared to read to see if thats whats going on…


    i feel delighted to see myself writing this wow

    a lot of my paralysis is seemingly gone


    yay Daria you rock

    heart feels tight ACK hehe

    its all good baby we are GROWING

    initial reactions seem to be wavy and then it all clears up!

  206.  #206Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    About the men loving food and having good appetites…. I love when they are appreciative and complimentary.

    Mr. C. came over to watch a football game Sunday night. His kids were with their mom, so was just him. I made these really easy, but yummy, spicy chicken and cheese nachos. He told me how great they were that night, he loved them. Then he said that everything I make is so good! But the best part was, last night we all went out for ice cream and his son mentioned he wanted nachos. Mr. C. immediately said, “Oh you missed it the other night! Turquoise made the best nachos I’ve ever had!

    That made me feel warm and smiley.

    I don’t believe being a good cook will keep a man, obviously not, but it sure doesn’t hurt to make them feel satisfied and enjoy something you are good at, in your company.

  207.  #207bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    but if this isn’t helpful to you feel free to ignore it, its only a ‘seeming’ that’s only worth noting if its useful in some way, otherwise it’s just a passing thought

    oh i like that : ) smile smile smile yay happy girl!!

  208.  #208ruth on September 12, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    sok daria
    I am a long time depression survivor

    am ok now
    ok meaning functioning

    I dont think depression is ever totally gone
    we live with it
    we can be happy some of the time

    I dont think it has anything nto do with bcp im my case, had it pre an post.have stron family history of bipolar, thank god Im not that way cos they are all dead

    am ok at the mo with a few bad patches
    am in a mild one at the mo

  209.  #209ruth on September 12, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Mild bad patch

  210.  #210Annie on September 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    64: Siren Angel says:


    I want to connect with them so this can be ‘fixed’. I am not the bad person this makes me look to be.. like the woman the kids hate… And I really believe M could be a little firmer with his kids about it, telling them he loves me and that I am a good person. I AM extremely nice to them, but they are going through some stuff with their parents divorce and such, and it would be the same with any woman, I am sure. Although, my fault is to get sucked into it, things I should have ignored or played down. But how do you get away from the gripping fear that an 11 yr old convokes when he tells you on a Island with no ferries at night that he once threw a hammer at his mothers bck and his father wouln’t protect her? Should I have laughed and said ‘oh, funny, you are trying to me scare me’.

    Ruth, that night we were on our way to a restaurant on the island and 11 yr old was in my car with me and my son. My 7yr old looked at me I could see in the rearview mirror with a look of disbelief on his face. I have not had a panick attack in 15 years and that night at the restaurant I had to go out for air. I didnt tell M but I had a panick attack outside alone in the rain thinking about the hammer story I had just been told.

    It is sooo ironic that he then turns around to his dad to say he doesnt want me around!”

    Gosh, have you told the father how you felt when his child said this and asked if it was true.

    I would also just have to ask the mother?

    What was your gut instinct about this story.

    I feel off about hearing this.

  211.  #211ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    @62 Siren Angel

    Oops…I missed the part about breaking up cause of the kids. So, you’re still dating, but without the kids knowing? That feels bad to me. Him being a psychologist should be able to come up with a better solution. Lying to the kids will not make it better in the long run. They will resent it.

  212.  #212Smile on September 12, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    I woke up panicky. I feel wide awake now 🙁 I’m normally a very good sleeper. I’m putting my energy and thoughts into logistics of moving. This has Always felt stressful in the past. I want it to feel slow, relaxed and easy. Hmm too much on my mind.

  213.  #213Radlove on September 12, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Receiving Girl,

    193 – “Wow, that is a letter with a lot of feeling in it. It sounds like K has said things you didn’t feel he should repeat to other people or say in general? I feel sad you feel you can’t trust him and you needed to write this letter. That’s an awful feeling to have about a friend.”

    Thank you, he said threatening things to them, and cruel things to them. And he had no business contacting them in the first place. The fact that he had their addresses was a thing of trust. He told my Mom something about how I felt about her that I never would have said to her. My friend, Cris, was angry and upset, on the verge of making a police report.

  214.  #214Smile on September 12, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Receiving girl, hi! I was thinking about you the other day.

    My beautiful pictures I bought from that site you posted never made it to the Walls framed. Im moving. But it’s a good feeling to be moving. I can take all my pretty things with me.

    Glad your feeling good with mr observant.

  215.  #215Annie on September 12, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    211: Receiving Girl says:

    “@62 Siren Angel

    Oops…I missed the part about breaking up cause of the kids. So, you’re still dating, but without the kids knowing? That feels bad to me. Him being a psychologist should be able to come up with a better solution. Lying to the kids will not make it better in the long run. They will resent it.”

    Lies destroy love.
    I don’t want and lies in my life.

  216.  #216Annie on September 12, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    I feel shocked that a psychologist would not have any consistent boundaries and consequences with actions that are followed through around his children hitting kicking etc.

    I feel curious does this child get away with that behavior at school?

  217.  #217Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Annie @210,

    I did mention it to M a few nights later and told him I felt a little scared (but did not mention the panic attack).

    I asked him if he knows what situation 11 yr old was referring too and M was very vague, first saying ‘I don’t know’ but looked away then said ‘oh it reminds me of something, but I’m not quite sure it was like that’ like he did not want to tell me. That is the feeling I got, he was being evasive and brushed it off. I believe he did ask 11 yr old about it that night, because at some point 11 yr old seemed upset that night after a talk with his dad. M was even more upset after. I am not sure what was said between the two, but M seemed very concerned and convinced 11 yr old does not like me.

    My first reaction when he told me was disbelief, then raw fear. I am already afraid he would hurt my kiddie, maybe even subconsciously, because he wants his dad all to himself. He is also ADHD so very active and impulsive, violent with his siblings and the siblings have started doing the same.

  218.  #218Annie on September 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Wouldn’t a psychologist know that his child needed a healthy outlet for when he was angry like hitting his pillow or jumping up and down on a trampoline etc, rather than allowing his child to hit other children and doing little or nothing about it and not facilitating in teaching his child to have a healthy outlet for his anger.

    I feel off about this.

  219.  #219Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm


    I am not privy to information about what happens at school. I know he does have learning difficulties because of his ADHD and it is very difficult to get him to do any school work. I believe there was an issue where both parents were called in last May or June, but the only information I got was ‘something happened because another kid did this and then ’11 yr old’ did such and such’ but I don’t remember what (I do believe someone got hurt) and I did not get any real details.

  220.  #220Annie on September 12, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    ADHD is not a get out clause and doesn’t mean you will not be held accountable for your actions.
    Prison is proof of that been as most have the diagnosis of ADHD in the uk.

    If that were my child I would want to be doing everything in my power to help facilitate in the development of gaining better impulse control and teaching that actions have consequences.

    What do you think?

  221.  #221Annie on September 12, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Not easy Siren Angel.

    He will get excluded if he continuously hits at school even with a Diagnosis of ADHD.

  222.  #222bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    raining & it’s quiet nap-time in the house…

    cat’s in the dog’s bed. dog’s on the floor, waiting

    i’m home but still up quiet in my mind so silent & preparatory


    everything around, & it feels like i’m not anything

    yet. my body thrills at the promise of work to be done

  223.  #223Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Awww, Thank you Smile for the flower!

  224.  #224bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    can’t stand that close-in punctuation – drives me mad !

  225.  #225Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm


    I absolutely agree about ADHD, remember my oldest has ADHD.

    The issue here is that I am starting to see that M somehow thinks it is better for 11 yr old that I am not around because he gets upset when I am and I do point out the ‘bad’ behavior. Frankly I think he doesn’t know what the heck* to do in those instances and does not want the drama of upset kids and prefers to put the blame on me.

  226.  #226bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    (((((siren angel)))))

  227.  #227Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:31 pm


    I want to put together a speech for M about how we could solve our issue around the kids and about what I want.

  228.  #228bloom-ing on September 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    “i feel off about this ” i like to say this in my mind right now, but… am not sure i would know what to do with it…. bobble bobble wobble wobble image making me giggle

    i’m getting too how i like the punctuation within the sentence to be close, but then the sentence-ender to be separate like this ! bee bop ! makes me happy ! how fun ! ummmm & i like the colons separate : but maybe the semicolons close in ; no, actually i like it better like this . mmm i love the periods distant . makes me think like music, cadence, feeling so excited : ) mmm space-y emoticons lol

  229.  #229Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    I am at my home tonight, even though it’s crazy noisy and little one is at his dads for the night.

    We went for ice cream after school and then the park and then I got him a new book (he’s a book monger) and then brought him to his dads for supper and homework as there is no way to do this at my house right now with the huge dryers and dehumidifiers everywhere.

    I feel a little sad at this whole situation. My life has been totally crazy in the last month and a half. Car accident, new job taking some time to lift off, the vacation, the breakup, the flood, the reunion with M in these circumstances. I feel a little overwhelmed yet hopeful and I have a gut feeling that things are about to change for the best. Don’t know why, but I have that feeling.

    My self-esteem has been a little hit. Yet, I continue to do my Yoga and try to look on the bright side of things. Maybe I should just get angry, but I don’t want to become a ‘spiteful woman’, that would feel icky and unattractive to me.

    There are so many thoughts and considerations on my mind, the time invested in the relationship with M, the kids and their interactions, my ability to connect with them in the circumstances drawn out by M and the results. I am looking for that streak of light that will make sense of it all or show me the way.

  230.  #230Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    I’m feeling giddy but also scared. I may have inadvertently (subconsciously on purpose) let my ex from work, D, know I’m single again. Whenever I wasn’t over functioning, leaning forward, and pressuring him about “us” we always had a great time together. Originally I was thinking I would just see if he might be a candidate for cding (practice -if we start dating again I’ll call him workCD) since he’s still very much focused on work and fun and not a commitment. And now I’m already back to thinking about him and letting my thoughts distract me from studying for my certification. I feel excited but I also feel like my excitement is followed closely by expectations…..expectations that I should not have, especially not with this man.

    How do I get back to focusing on me and being fine with him not immediately wanting to give me all his attention? (He certainly has mine.). If for no other reason than this very difficult and expensive test I’ve already invested in that I must take in a few months.


  231.  #231Belle on September 12, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    I take back any snotty attitude I might have had about using the blog for triggers.
    I feel so blessed right now, so self-satisfied and I feel so much gratitude!
    If I hadn’t felt my way through the snarly wounded masculine stuff triggered by the blog a few days ago, I might have had a meltdown in my supervisor’s office today.
    It freaks me out how totally I can misread people sometimes.
    He brought several of us in to show us a mistake in billing that had been made and was instructing me on how to flag it in the future
    I pointed out that I HAD flagged it
    He seemed to be going around in circles and not making sense
    I felt the adrenalin rise
    I told them I felt defensive because I was hearing that it was my fault and I was being blamed and I damn well nearly CHOKED getting the words out.
    Everyone was
    calm, eerily calm and my supervisor responded in a way that totally assured me with his body language that he wasn’t blaming me or anyone really, just wanted us to be more aware of the process.
    I felt the sparkly prickly energy rising up my throat and into my forehead and 2 hours later my “3rd eye” is still tingling, like something opened.

    Also something very very cool!
    Last year I dreamed I saw a sign that said, “BIONEERS”, so I looked it up online and found a local event happening within a few weeks and volunteered. I met several people there, and this past weekend saw a woman I had met. She got my contact info, and today called and asked if I could help her cover a catering event this weekend.

    Around the same time I got a text that my regular Saturday night playdate was cancelled, so I was free to go to the event…so, I get to make some extra cash and eat and serve raw food AND meet some very cool people.

    I was dancing and singing in my car on the way home and feeling so grateful and so happy to be MEEEEE!!!!!
    I love my life!
    I feel like I’m full of big boinging bouncy springs!!

  232.  #232Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 4:45 pm


    It’s hard for me to take that decision to just pack up and go and not look back. Even through all this, I love M and his kids too! My kiddie adores M and he likes his kids.

    Yes, the environment is very important for me. The environment is filled with activities with M and fun times. The problem is in the behavior of the kids that is not getting addressed and my worries and fears that my son, or one of M’s kids, will eventually get really hurt.

    It feels tragic to me to leave a relationship because of an issue that could easily be solved with parenting techniques and more connection or more time for M alone with his kids and maybe even a different custody schedule as he only has them 4 days one week and one day the following week, I believe they are also acting up because they need more of their dad.

  233.  #233April Rose on September 12, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Siren Angel,

    How did you receive Turquoise’s comment 174?

    I have to agree with her.

    And, in the light of Sassy’s question 182
    “What if we all woke up tomoro and had NO memories, NO past, NO previous pain, NO Prior relationships?
    How would you go forward? What would you like your life to look like?”

    This is the streak of light you seek, yes?

  234.  #234April Rose on September 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    I am learning and intuiting what a partnership looks like.

  235.  #235Sassy on September 12, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    YW Starla,

    I asked that because so much has been posted about “things coming up to heal”, and “why are so many sirens stil here after so many years and not having the relationship they want” and especially Turqouise’ post about needing to get clear on what she really wants.
    I’m not repeating these words to be mean, but what if we all just woke up every day and really made a conscious effort to start new, a clean slate, fresh and unencumbered by our pasts? No blame, no shame, no guilt, forgive who you need to forgive, forgive yourself, stop trying so hard to be what you think everyone else thinks you should be, and just BE….?

  236.  #236April Rose on September 12, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    I want partnership and alliance. Joyful, cosy, adventurous, surprising alliance.

  237.  #237April Rose on September 12, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    I want to experiment with punctuation distance , too .

  238.  #238Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    I am not going to do anything at all when it comes to men! I am going to live my life and be happy, and love me! men will either show up or they wont, but I am not going to obsess about it.

    Yayy for dating myself! Funny thing is that when I date myself, is when I flirt the most with random men around…

  239.  #239Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    SA – The situation with 11yo really feels scary to me.

    The safety of my girls is and always will be #1 and this would be a dealbreaker for me.

    You cannot “make” M see how his parenting techniques are not helping, so I’m really not sure how you think this can be resolved.

    If it were me, after that incident with 11yo I would have ended the relationship saying that I felt unsafe and worried for the welfare of my children and could not continue a relationship while things are like that.

    If the guy loved and wanted me enough, he would know what to do… (((SA)))

  240.  #240Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Basically, we are back in the same situation we were in last January/February, seeing each other without the kids.

    It will become more and more clear to me if this can evolve to where we were at before vacation in the next few days.

    My son is not violent in the least bit, and I am not worried that he would develop that as he has very different parenting from his dad, the other extreme. He is also much more of an intellectual type and needs to be pushed to do more physical things and for that the interaction with M and his kids has been tremendously beneficial. There are may facets to this situation.

  241.  #241Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Mel, if you’re taking Yaz or Yasmin, please stop taking it. Now.

    Using google you can search for the support forum for “survivors” of this BCP.

    It totally messed up my life for a year. 🙁

  242.  #242Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm


    I know – but what if my worries are unfounded? What if it hurts my son more to leave these kids?

  243.  #243Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm


    sometimes if you wouldn’t have been alone, you wouldn’t have met the people you were suppose to meet. Embrace solitude, if gives you confidence and leave a little space for the people who may want to be alone with you…

    This makes sense to me…

  244.  #244Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:09 pm


    Maybe this is exactly what he sees happening in the future he has no idea how to control the situation…

  245.  #245Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    If he threw a hammer at his mother, you have a whole lot to worry about there and I’d be immediately removing my children from that situation.

    The other examples (like jumping on the sibling’s heads) you gave also frightened me. My friend’s son has ADHD and he is not violent at all. I’d be extremely worried about that child and his mental stability.

    If he’s not being disciplined now, who knows how much worse it could get?

    This must be so awful for you.

    But let me ask you this:

    What do you think it would take for you and M to get back together?

    What has to change for it to work next time around?

    Because if nothing changes, you know what’s going to happen, right?


  246.  #246Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Hi ReceivingGirl!

  247.  #247Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    BW @245,

    Those are excellent questions and reflections!

    I do not know for sure if he really threw a hammer at his mom’s back, as he may just have been trying to scare me and freak me out. I am concerned about M’s reaction to my bringing it up as I felt he did not want to share on this, but again maybe he had no idea what I was talking about and maybe something happened similar to that that had nothing to do with 11 yr old. It is a mystery.

    “What do you think it would take for you and M to get back together?” The kids would need to express that they miss me and to endorse my presence in their lives to their father. Some kind of agreement with M and I would need to be in place on how to handle these situations. Some courage on M’s part to tell his kids he loves me and can judge for himself if I am good for them.

    What has to change for it to work next time around? A lot of will from both M and I to stick to our agreement on how to handle these situations.

  248.  #248Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    I replied to him asking ohh what happened and he said he’d have to call him. I felt afraid he might call right away away and I was extremely stressed at work, so gave him the time I can talk on the phone. Have not heard from him yet.

    I think if he calls and if his problem is not too awful I will still give him FM’s about being stood up two nights in a row and wanting to feel more cared about.

  249.  #249Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    225: Siren Angel

    I don’t think he is blaming you; I think he is just putting his kids happiness first.

  250.  #250Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:41 pm


    M asked me to text him tonight to let him know if I was staying home or going to a hotel.

    What do you think?

    ‘I feel little silly with ear plugs but thankful for a little down time. Texting as you asked me to let you know…’


  251.  #251Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    Or am I being ‘too easy’?

  252.  #252ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    @213 Radlove

    That is just not cool. I would feel very bad about that as well. I hope you were able to get past that with them and it didn’t cause too much damage.

  253.  #253ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    @214 Hi Smile! I’m feel happy to hear you are moving and will have all these beautiful things to decorate with…that is always exciting!

  254.  #254Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    I am having difficulty coming up with a good FM, but he asked me to text.

  255.  #255Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm


    Are you not staying at his place?

  256.  #256Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:44 pm


    I would save the ‘feeling ignored’ for when you see him in person.

  257.  #257Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:45 pm


    Tonight I am staying home but he offered to pay for a hotel as his kids are at his place and we decided it was best to not be there. They don;t know I am back and it is not clear when they will know.

  258.  #258Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    SA, M seems very closed down about the issue with his children and doesn’t seem to have acknowledged his part in the lack of discipline either.

    If it were me, I would need to see that to change before I would consider a relationship again (to protect my children) because until he sees that, nothing will change.

    If nothing changes with regard to that, you will be stuck here in this situation again in another year.

    The biggest obstacle here I don’t believe you have any control of, and he doesn’t even seem to see a problem with the discipline.

    What do you think you can do differently to get a different result?

    Sorry rambling. At work typing on phone! 🙂

  259.  #259Belle on September 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    I missed the references to violence with your situation, Siren Angel.
    I feel weird and my tummy feels gurgly and nauseous.
    Despite what you might think when you are putting him on a pedestal, your guy does NOT sound like a good parent. He sounds very messed up.
    I fail to see how putting your sensitive son in a situation with an insensitive adult man and his distressed children could POSSIBLY be good for your son.
    And now I’m thinking of your dream…the sensitive woman and the vulnerable baby being pushed out of the room.

    Now I really must turn away as I’m sure my attention will not help.

  260.  #260Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:47 pm


    Possibly, removing myself from the situation. But he was ready to do that. So I don’t know…

  261.  #261Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:49 pm


    I was not planning to use ‘feeling ignored’ thing. Was shooting for feeling low priority and want to feel cared about.

    But maybe it was his way to check if I am talking to him at all and now that i jumped and did talk to him he doesn’t have to call me;)

  262.  #262Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    SA, I would take hotel:)

    Let him take care of you

  263.  #263Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:49 pm


    Part of me thinks I may be overacting and seeing danger when it is just kids acting up… This is what makes me ‘waver’.

  264.  #264ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    @246 Hi Memulo!! How is everything going with you and SmartCD?

  265.  #265Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:51 pm


    I would worry about your relationship with him. Seriously, they respect you more when you cost them more lol. You deserved to stay at a hotel. Let him work for you!

  266.  #266Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:52 pm


    thanks for asking, I wish I knew 😉

  267.  #267ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    @258 Siren Angel

    I agree with BW. His child sounds like a big issue. How can the relationship be good if you are feeling so uneasy about the 11 year old and his capacity for violence? Even if he made up the hammer story…it is still something that came from his head. That is scary in itself. I would be worried too.

  268.  #268Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Aww… Memulo… Just booked the room. Thank you. Will make for a much better FM too!

    Receive, yes!

  269.  #269ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    @266 Memulo

    I’m sorry to hear that. I was hoping progress would have been made. 🙁

  270.  #270Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    His values around parenting seem to be very different to yours.

    Is it really worth putting your son (who sounds like a georgeous thing!) through that long term?

    If 11yo’s behavior was an issue for you before, it will continue to be an issue until M acknowledges there’s a problem.

    I’m wondering how M would have reacted if things were different and instead of him ending it, you did, saying that you don’t want to be in a relationship with a guy who has kids who are so volatile…. Hmmmm…

  271.  #271Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 5:58 pm


    You’ve officially become my self esteem proof lol. Would you have responded to a text that he is in trouble and give him the best time to call (i.e. he said he wanted to call)?

  272.  #272Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    @263 Siren Angel

    Doesn’t seem like you are overreacting about the child, seems like your guy is under reacting or avoiding. Glad you are at a hotel now. I hope your evening is peaceful.

  273.  #273Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Found this in an old Blog from 2010…

    How about this:

    Do Nothing.

    That’s Number 1 for me. We’re all working so hard, trying so hard, trying to push away our deeper feelings – actually trying to push away love for ourselves and everyone and everything else. Working to survive, instead of to experience and live. Just sit or lay down and do nothing productive.

    See how it feels. See if you can experience pleasure in nothing.

    Then – how about this:

    Forgive yourself.

    Forget about forgiving anyone else. Anyone who hurt you or raised you painfully or rejected you or did or is doing a hurtful thing to someone else. Just focus on forgiving you.

    And then this one:

    Sit down. Smile with your heart. Smile with your liver.


    Everyone you meet on your journey is your teacher…

    Love, Rori

  274.  #274Brandylion on September 12, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    No, Daria, I do need help with the tools. They don’t work for me, so clearly I’m doing them wrong. Actually, the only Rori tool I use is FMs. I don’t remember the other ones, or at least not in the moments when they might actually be useful.

    The fact that I can’t even get men to meet me in person should be an indication of just how little healing I’ve done and just how far I have yet to go before Mr. Right will even notice I exist.

  275.  #275Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Lol Memulo! I feel warm and fuzzy reading that! 🙂

    Did he say in the text that he specifically wanted to call you?

  276.  #276ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Siren Angel, enjoy the hotel!

  277.  #277Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Siren Angel, I know it’s not easy to leave a relationship you really want, but this still sounds like a lot of excuses to me. So, with that said…. I’m going to shift my focus to the only thing I feel I can share that you might accept.

    There are a lot of things you can do and expose your child to, to broaden his horizons. He could join a sport and make friends with new team mates, take music lessons or art classes and meet new children there. He could join scouts and learn to camp and be outdoorsy. But you have more children right? Having siblings should help with that, no matter what. You cold invite some of his friends over once a month for a sleepover, where kids play and act silly and have fun.

    As far as a text, I would simply text good night.

  278.  #278Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm


    Sorry, I shouldn’t have said that. We’ve been growing closer, we take 1-2 day trips, he is in a much better mood, almost back to normal, etc.

  279.  #279Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    And to clarify, I didn’t say you had to walk away forever and close the door. It doesn’t have to be now or never. My ex and I were apart for years when we reconnected. It didn’t grow into a new relationship, but the opportunity did arise. You are selling yourself short to believe you only have this one opportunity to keep him. He can choose you, at any time. If you still want him that is.

  280.  #280Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:05 pm


    Yes. I asked what was wrong and he replied ‘I’ll have to call you’. So I gave him the times.

  281.  #281Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Brandylion – could it be that you don’t perceive yourself as high enough value?

    If you had the attitude that they get to see you only on weekends, otherwise it’s their loss, do you think things would be different?


  282.  #282Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    He is not calling. Let me guess.. fell asleep!

    Next time he complains he has a trouble sleeping I will have a good answer for him lol

  283.  #283Brandylion on September 12, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    I had someone to run with. And he dumped me.

    And running is now tainted, because all I think about when I run is him and the runs I did with him.

    I don’t know If I want to share it with someone else because the same thing will happen again.

  284.  #284forest siren on September 12, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Memulo do you use the word feel in your messages with him?

  285.  #285ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    @278 Memulo, it’s good to hear that things have improved. I would have responded to a text like that 😉

  286.  #286Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    I feel triggered!!
    I don’t know if it is okay to express my triggered feelings! Because the posts are not about me, but I feel triggered anyway… something I need to heal!

    I do not like to read about an 11 year old being a big problem!!! it is just a child!!!

    I love children, even “bad” children!
    I would feel angry if a stranger comes to my life and tells me what to do!!! Then tell my dad, how he needs to “fix” me… She doesn’t Like me!! She thinks I am not good!!
    who does she think she is? I had my dad first anyway!
    I am not a demon, just an 11 years old who just experience mom and dad break up… I rather push people away than get attached and be heart broken again…

    wheew! I have to take care of my inner child and my own fears of abandonment…

  287.  #287Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Why on earth did I reply with times?? Normal me would just let it go. I felt guilty he may be in real trouble and I was too busy to reply to his first trouble text for 5 hours

  288.  #288Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Ok Memulo, that’s fine because you weren’t available at that time.

    Now lean RIGHT back and shift that focus of yours on to something else!

    History tells me that he very likely won’t call, so I’d be inclined to drop any expectations of a call at this point too.

    I hope he does though. And remember, if you have no expectations and he does call, then you get to feel pleasantly surprised! 😉

  289.  #289Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Feeling quite ashamed of myself.

    About a month ago I visited a good friend.

    He has a long distance girlfriend. And I have many other cd-s. But the moment felt special and we obviously were very attracted to eachother (I hadn´t seen him before in real life). He made the move and as I gave in, and slept with him. many times during the few days I visited him.

    I knew it was not going to be good after that. But I still did it. I guess out of loneliness, not having felt such passion in a long time & the feeling of sharing so many aspects of myself with somebody (talks & walks & life situation & music…& good s3x).

    I left & the girlfriend arrived & left again The silly part of me kind of expected he´d tell her everything, leave her and become running after me. That didn´t happen.

    He’s sending me sms he’s feeling sad & missing me. That he has not been sharing things “at this level” with any-one before. He´s complaining a bit how he has nothing in common with the girlfriend and doesn´t see a future with her. We are also chatting & sending some e-mails. Pictures & links to videos & random stuff. But I feel sad & inauthentic and also I´m becoming more resentful with every passing day. If i share some bad feelings, he´s saying things like “I´m not happy with this situation either. I guess I´m too afraid. I don´t want to hurt people.”

    But the same time sayin I should go to visit him again. He gets angry or sad if I mention I´m going out or to meet someone or if it seems I´m around other men. (Which I am).
    So it´s obvious we can not have that relaxed & friendly communication we used to have.

    These last few days I got specially vulnerable and feeling low. And he´s picked up on that and become angry & distant himself.So I decided it’s better to cut off contact altogether, as I don´t see anything good developing out of this.

    But, out of respect, I though I should be letting him know. When I tried to say it (I was quite in an upset mood, so maybe it wasn´t very sireny), he said he thinks I´m wrong, he doesn´t agree & that it´s like an ultimatum & that he had horrible headache. So we couldn´t rerally “finish” the talk & agreed to talk it once more. That was 2 days ago. And we still have not been able to talk anything more. I feel he is afraid & avoiding me a bit, or maybe it´s the circumstances and not being able to be online same time. I don´t really feel like forcing him to have “the talk” about it either, but I feel just deleting him from my contacts after being friends for so long would be a bit cruel thing to do.

    What do you think? Should I just delete him. Or explaind the no contact somehow. In feeling messages? What would you do?

    I just feel so bad about this all. And kind of lost. And I miss the friend I had in him.

  290.  #290Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:15 pm


    Sometimes I do. I said ‘tonight will feel good’. What exactly will feel good if he has bad news I don’t know:)

  291.  #291ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    @286 Luzydel you make a good point. I’m sure he’s had a tough time, as all kids do with divorce. But, what if he is violent?

  292.  #292Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Luzydel, you are right. It’s just a child and he shouldn’t be the problem. The problem is the father not being willing or able or wanting to, whatever it is, be a team with Siren Angel and put her first.

    I just had this conversation recently with Mr. C. about how you are supposed to put your partner before your children. I was the one who was waivering…. how could I put someone else before my girls, especially someone new, who wasn’t their father. And he said something to the effect of… , because they are children. You make a commitment to that other person to be a team and support each other.

    Reflecting on that, I felt that it goes without saying that you’d choose someone who loved your children, had their best intentions at heart, and who obviously has values and ideals you believe in, or you wouldn’t choose them. But they have to feel the same way, that they are choosing this other adult as their partner/team mate, etc. to parent with, not around.

  293.  #293Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    It is called emotional blackmail:) He knows I am sympathetic so it was a smart thing to send me this to get me respond and check his status with me!

  294.  #294Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    Also wanted to say:

    Hi to all the new Sirens! I am not a new poster, just not being on the blog too often, so it´s nice to see there are many new names. And also great to see the names I already recognize. I have read glimpses to see how you´re all doing. Not feeling I can comment too much though before doing some more reading.

    Siren Angel! Read about the flood at your house. Hope everything gets tried quickly.

    Hugs to all!!!

  295.  #295Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Hi Ulli, good to see you on here! Maybe give it a little space with your guy. Does a decision need to be made right now? Would it hurt to take a few days and see if things clear up at all? I have learned to let go of my urgency, especially in deleting contacts, deleting from facebook, etc. Usually things get so much better after a few days, that I’m so relieved I didn’t react in the moment. It still may not work out as a happily ever after, but maybe it will find it’s way back to a better spot than you feel you are in now. Hugs to you!

  296.  #296ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    @289 Ulii

    Gosh, that is tough. I don’t feel you are giving an ultimatum. Sounds like he’s too chicken to end things with gf, but he wants to keep you as well and that’s not really fair. You have your decision to make and he has his. You both need to do what is best for yourselves. I understand needing to talk because of your history. If it doesn’t happen, maybe an email would suffice, just to say what you are feeling?

  297.  #297Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Hope everything gets dried quickly!* Pardon my English! It´s a bit late here. 🙂

  298.  #298Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    Sassy, did my post sound bad/sad/confused to you? I really like your ideas about forgiving others, forgiving myself, and making a fresh start, each day if needed. 🙂

    I do feel better than earlier today. I’m starting to picture what it is I do want. I would like to be married, but a lot of that is about the ring and the ceremony. Mainly I want a companion, my other half, to live and enjoy life with. To be my best friend and my lover. To enjoy the small things with, but also the big things like holidays, vacations and creating new memories. To count on to be part of my future. That is what I want.

  299.  #299Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    292: Turquoise

    Yes and No, he also is committed to his children, and he has not made an official commitment to SA, just vague promises…the only real commitment he has right now are his children.

    Also I work with children and families of Psychologically disturbed children…The child SA is describing is more a child who feels neglected and needs attention and is afraid of getting attached and is pushing her away etc. If he was violent he would have done something already… We adults do the same anyway, it is easy to be “mean” and push people away than to let them close and risk on getting hurt again…

  300.  #300Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Just made it! It’s a small hotel in the suburb next over mine…

    What do you think of this: ‘I feel all warm and soft and peaceful… At the xx hotel. Thank you’


  301.  #301Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:34 pm


    I am rushing for an FM but I want to read your posts right after, i looked quickly and it’s very insightful.

  302.  #302Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    I feel all soft and peaceful… At the xx hotel. Thank you’

  303.  #303Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:37 pm


    “I feel safe and all soft and peaceful. at x hotel. thank you”

  304.  #304Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    Welll…. Luzydel, I kinda disagree with you. When marriage is on the table and you are involving children in a relationship then, I do feel there should be a commitment to each other to make the best of all of it, for everyone. Of course he is committed to his children, that goes without saying. but unless I missed something, I haven’t seen where SA did anything harmful to him.

    Yes, the child feels neglected and wants more time with his dad. Divorce sucks, especially for kids. But the only solution the dad can come up with is to end a relationship with a woman he’s at least led to believe with a promise ring, that they are building a life together? Please, to me… that is an excuse on his part.

  305.  #305Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Actually, this room is just ‘ok’ but not so bad, much better than the horrible noise at my house… at least i will get a good nights sleep and there is internet and a tv.

  306.  #306Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Siren Angel…lol,

    The feeling message could go something like this…
    I’m feeling a little disappointed in this lackluster hotel room, but appreciate the quiet, the tv and internet access. Thank you for taking care of me.

  307.  #307Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Luzydel @299,

    When I mentionned to M that 11 yr old is seeking his attention he became very defensive and blamey. I know this is going on because of the divorce and the mother ‘uses’ the kids by manipulating them in thinking in certain way, which she has done to her 2 older kids (21 and 190 who no longer talk to their dad (another dad).

    “is afraid of getting attached and is pushing her away etc. … … it is easy to be “mean” and push people away than to let them close and risk on getting hurt again…” I had not seen it this way at all… Are you saying I did not make him feel secure?

  308.  #308Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    @ ReceivingGirl 295

    Thanks for responding RG! I was actually thinkng about you the other day and that going through posts I have not seen you lately (as myself) on here. I saw now you are still good with Mr Observant and his divorce is getting a bit better direction. Good to hear that!

    About what you say to me. Yes, I think e-mail would be the way to go if we are not able to get to talk another way. Anyway I feel a bit overwhelmed, like even leaning forwardy, even having to delete him and explain it. But I´m not feeling capable of just freindly casual chat, because I do feel angry with him not being “brave enough”…and I feel this negativity is growing in me…and he senses it. So it´s all awkward between us right now.

  309.  #309Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    Luzydel @299,

    When I mentionned to M that 11 yr old is seeking his attention he became very defensive and blamey. I know this is going on because of the divorce and the mother ‘uses’ the kids by manipulating them in thinking in certain way, which she has done to her 2 older kids (21 and 19) who no longer talk to their dad (another dad).

    “is afraid of getting attached and is pushing her away etc. … … it is easy to be “mean” and push people away than to let them close and risk on getting hurt again…” I had not seen it this way at all… Are you saying I did not make him feel secure?

  310.  #310Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    He is free to do what he wants and a promise ring for a grown woman sounds a cheap promise to me… I rather have the real ring with a set up date and a plan, but that is just me.

    I wouldn’t force myself to children who don’t want me, I may try to win them over, but if it doesn’t work I will leave, There is no commitment if there is no marriage, promises are not a commitment.. Children are forever…. Not saying SA was mistreating the kid, I was just feeling triggered to some comments who were demonizing him with out knowing the whole story…

  311.  #311Belle on September 12, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    I feel more peaceful.
    I was *trying* to get myself worked up and triggered.
    I thought I *should* feel something different
    but I see other people, more qualified, are handling things and I don’t have to react or deal with every little thing.
    The world seems to run just fine without my little opinion.
    I can sit back and watch and learn, I don’t have to be all up in everything alla tha time!
    *sigh of relief*

  312.  #312Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    My daughters have always come first and always will. In saying that though, my ex and I agreed that if we disagreed with the other’s parenting style, then we would discuss it out of earshot but would support the other as much as possible.

    This worked great for several years until our marriage started to break down and we stopped agreeing on many things. In the end I felt that he was having a go at her for everything (and much was unjustified).

    It was a contributing factor to me leaving him because she did not deserve that and as her mother it was my job to protect her.

    SA has done nothing wrong as I can see, so I’m not sure M has been totally honest to her or even himself about his step back.

  313.  #313Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    SA You cannot make people feel anything (even children) the kid has his own issues, do not lean forward with him either, don’t do anything… don’t tell dad anything because people are defensive about their kids (we all think our children are great).

    Go slowly, and study the situation, if he is not agreeing with you that is a sign that you both have different parenting skills. Perhaps all M is hearing “you’re not doing a good job” even though that is not what you mean. You may be trying to control even if you think this is good for the relationship… Just a thought.

  314.  #314Annie on September 12, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Siren Angel

    “The mother ‘uses’ the kids by manipulating them in thinking in certain way, which she has done to her 2 older kids (21 and 190 who no longer talk to their dad (another dad).”

    Are those your thoughts?
    Or his words?

  315.  #315Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    @ Turquoise 296

    Hi Turquoise! I feel all warm & welcomed reading you are glad to see me here! 🙂
    Thanks for the response & the hugs too! 🙂 (((Turquoise)))

    I think giving it all time&space would be the wise thing to do.
    Actually I do have my period these days and I am overall more sensitive to all, so maybe I got to this point of “I can’t take it anymore” a bit influenced by my hormones.
    I will be away from internet few days starting tomorrow. So probably I´m not doing anything yet. Maybe only composing a e-mail with how I feel to send later on, if I still feel like it.

    But I do think it´s unlikely the situation would change any time soon. And it is hurtful he is not choosing me, but expects me to be his cool & relaxed friend always in a good mood to cheer him up and listen to his random chat as well as problems with gf and occasionally that he misses me and wants to be with me (and no action follows).
    It might take a long time before I would feel not affected by it.

  316.  #316Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    Siren Angel I am sure given the situation you would instinctively be blamey and defensive too. It is reflexive parenting instincts. We don’t even think about it. Plus he is a man, he will protect what is his. They are his blood.

  317.  #317Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:11 pm


    I see your point and I was very triggered by the ‘promise’ ring. It raised a lot of uncertainty for me actually, as it felt like it was pushing the real ring further away in time.

    Yes, I did get the impression at some point that he might have felt I was ‘making him wrong’ but, like any parent, I want to protect my kid (and his) from harm.

  318.  #318ReceivingGirl on September 12, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    @308 Ulii

    I think someone else said this too, but maybe just sit on it for a few days and see what transpires. I have 2 friends who went through this and he never left the gf even though he is miserable. He’s chicken and scared of her. It’s sad really.

    I’m not sure things are for the better with Mr. Observant’s divorce. I mean, a week ago she was trying to keep him from seeing his kids and only under her terms and in her presence. Now, all of a sudden, she’s being nicer and he is getting the kids overnight this weekend. Something really smells fishy to me. I’m not sure if I should express my distrust of this to Mr. Observant though. He’s so excited to get his kids and I don’t want to rain on his parade. I don’t trust her at all. Is this a divorce tactic or something to get him to lower his guard? I don’t know.

  319.  #319Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Ulii… it may not change, and you can lean waaaayyyy back and not listen to him whine, but I feel better when I take some time and feel less emotionally charged, in making decisions to end something with someone. It’s amazing how that is changing in me, because I LOVED my closure. It was usually pretty instant, and then I often really regretted it.

    I’m not saying give it some time for him, just give it some time for you. Things may feel different or clearer in a few days. You still may choose to end things and walk away, and that is definitely ok, but maybe not. So why rush it?

  320.  #320Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    On another note, M just called. The call did not feel rushed, like it had in the past, while I was almost waiting for no call or text back (waiting for the other shoe to drop) which makes me realize we are not as far off apart as we were last January when I went through so much pain of days without contact.

    He was warm and I delivered a lot of FMs. He asked what I did today instead of just calling to say goodnight. I do feel hopeful.

  321.  #321Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    and thank you for the hugs 🙂

  322.  #322Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:15 pm


    Your comment about the kids fearing rejection really struck a cord with me. M’s kids had told their dad the day before breakup that ‘she only cares about her own child’

  323.  #323Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    313 I agree with what luzydel says about you having different parenting skills SA.

    With that in mind, I honestly don’t see things improving until you can at least agree on a middle ground with parenting, otherwise these conflicts will continue to happen.

    What do you think?

  324.  #324Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    SA if this was me, I would keep the kids away until there is a real commitment, in the mean time will go slowly trying to discover if he is the right man for me; start slow with the kids also, meet outside in public places, I would not stay alone with his kids if he is not present.
    I would date myself and innocently flirt with other men and I would not tell him about the guy who said I had nice eyes. If I see his kids misbehaving I would lean back, if he ask why I leaned back, I would say I felt uncomfortable when so and so happened and I decided to stay away from it… I’ll Let him decide how to raise his kids, I would need to know who he really is to make a decision if he is right for me, and that is possible only when I don’t do anything and don’t suggest or try to control… That would give me the freedom to choose also.

  325.  #325Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Thank you Receiving Girl & Turquoise

    I will give this some space & time and not contact him these days I´ll be out of town & internet (from tomorrow to monday probably). Although feeling a bit worried he´s thinking then I have done it already.
    But ok…I can not control what he will be feeling or thinking.

    RG, I must have misunderstood reading your earlier post on the blog (as it´s after 4 am here where i am and I´m a bit dizzy of the computer..:) ) it seemed to me his ex is taking a better attitude. But of course, it might be not wize to trust her completely and let down your guard. But I wouldn’t do the warning him about her either.

    Ok…now I will be off to have some sleep.

  326.  #326Ulii on September 12, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    And I feel like sending a special hug to you Sirel Angel!

    I have no kids or experience with divorce issues, but I imagine it must be hard.

  327.  #327Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Luzydel and BW,

    Yes I realize I need to lean back and let him control his own kids, yet keep an eye on what is best for me and my kiddie.

    BW, I do see the need for some agreement about issues and how we handle the situation or intervene. Otherwise, yes these things may happen again and I don’t want that.

    I like what you said about having the freedom to choose also, with no kid intervention and a lean back mode and innocently Cding.

    I do hope things will evolve enough that we can be with the kids again. I see this time as a chance to really explore if M and I can work out without the stress of the kids too.

  328.  #328Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Ulii, Thank you 🙂

  329.  #329Annie on September 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    I do feel confused about this thread.
    I know it’s not about us changing them.
    It was my belief it was about us expressing our feelings and deciding if something was a deal breaker, speaking our truth and see if they are inspired to want to change themselves.

    What I feel confused about is this thread is appears to be tit for tat and that this wasn’t really a deal breaker for the man.
    This man was obviously addicted to sugar.

    What do others think?

  330.  #330Annie on September 12, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    322: Siren Angel says:


    Your comment about the kids fearing rejection really struck a cord with me. M’s kids had told their dad the day before breakup that ‘she only cares about her own child’”

    It is human nature to be more protective of someone who shares are DNA. So it makes complete sense that if push came to shove you would put your child first and he would his child first.
    It would just be instinctive.

  331.  #331Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    He called:) His problems were annoying but much more manageable compared to what she did a couple of months ago.

  332.  #332Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Turquoise @306,

    Lol! that is a very factual FM bu generally conveys the feeling situation of it all!

  333.  #333Annie on September 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm


  334.  #334Femininewoman on September 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    Memulo what did he say about you?

  335.  #335Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Yay SA, pick a better hotel next time:)

  336.  #336Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Annie and FW,

    Yes, M and I are just being protective of our kids and I feel sad to know and see how we almost gave it all up for that. But there are things that need to be agreed on and tweaked for the benefit of all. Kids do make the situation much more complicated. I always thought it would be easier to be with his own kids but I hadnt see the danger signs. Now I do.

  337.  #337Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Bahahahaha!!!! TH changed his profile pic. Without my prompting. I feel good that he did that without responding angrily or defensively towards me.

    I made it totally about me and after he thought about it, he took it down without me asking him to. Yay TH!

    He’s emailed me today, insisting that I go to the gym with him tonight too. Oh and in front of MW (married woman he had an affair with some time ago) he said “So, we going to gym tonight?” even though I’d already told him I would go.

    I feel amazed at how calm and happy I feel right now. Expressing my feelings then just dropping it, letting it go and leaning back has worked wonders! 🙂

  338.  #338Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    I just saw this on FB

    You alone are enough. You have nothing to prove to anybody.

    Maya Angelou

  339.  #339Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 7:53 pm


    I did not talk about the weekend to him. He sounded so sweet and sincere and he had a real problem that he wanted to share, and a very challenging day tomorrow. So we talked about it first. Then I had a terrible day at work with office politics and asked for his advice. He gave me a very good advice and sounded really caring and involved and then the child woke up and he couldn’t talk anymore. I will have to talk about my relationship concerns when I see him I guess.

  340.  #340Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    SA I feel these kids are not ready for you yet; I know it feels sad, but seems they are not ready for this kind of commitment. That doesn’t mean they wont be in the future, but right now they are not ready for a relationship with a new mom; they are healing… You don’t need to drop M entirely, just relax and CD either literally or just CD yourself and flirt (your choice); sometimes we want something so bad that we forget to read the small print… let it be.

  341.  #341Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Ulii @289,

    I agree with the other Sirens. Don’t do anything in reaction on the moment. You may very well regret later having acted on impulses. Try to feel those feelings so you can express them to him. If he is a good man and truly was honest about the gf situation, you will know soon enough. And don’t blame yourself for your actions in getting together with him, this can only cause you more harm.

  342.  #342Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    Luzydel @340,

    Right now anyway I am not seeing the kids anymore as M has decided that. I do feel afraid that when they are finally ‘ready’, M may decide to try with someone new and I will be the one to have gone through the adjustment period with them to the detriment of the relationship. That thought makes me feel scared.

  343.  #343Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    BW @337,

    Oh! that’s funny! You have come a long way BW!
    I wish I could feel as confident as you right now… I need to get my vibe to that place.

  344.  #344LoveAlways on September 12, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    i am in love

  345.  #345LoveAlways on September 12, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    no. i didn’t tell him.

  346.  #346Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    342: Siren Angel

    Either way you will be fine! M is not the only man on earth. He would be stupid if he let you go, especially when you are not only willing to give your love to him, but to his children; not everyone is willing to do that for someone else children. Remember you are the price 🙂

  347.  #347LoveAlways on September 12, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    i just felt it and enjoyed the new feeling

  348.  #348Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    Oh LoveAlways!! Feeling so happy for you!

    Sure he will tell you soon;)

  349.  #349Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Turquoise @277,

    “There are a lot of things you can do and expose your child to, to broaden his horizons. He could join a sport and make friends with new team mates, take music lessons or art classes and meet new children there. He could join scouts and learn to camp and be outdoorsy. But you have more children right? Having siblings should help with that, no matter what. You cold invite some of his friends over once a month for a sleepover, where kids play and act silly and have fun. ”

    I already do a lot of these things for my kiddie. He takes soccer and is in a Lego club there are also swimming lessons and now there will be piano lessons. I bring him hiking and buy several books for him a week (he devours them). We have play dates although these have turned more into hanging out with M’s kids. He does to day camp in the summer and I choose special programs although a little pricier (science, magic, ect) because his interests are so large.

    But the truth be told, he is extremely attached to M and to M’s kids after 1,5 years of seeing them several times a week and sleepovers every second weekend with them. It is already a family setting.

  350.  #350Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Awww.. Luzydel, thank you 🙂

  351.  #351Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    I haven’t even spoke about DW even when he has been contacting me… I told him Sunday that I felt it was bad timing for us; he had to get a part time job plus his regular job and he has his son on weekends… I told him that I am not going to ask him for time, but that perhaps this is bad timing and that we should just let go… Tuesday I got a text saying “No, I am not going anywhere, you’re mine. You belong to me” I did not respond … I am still debating if this has possibilities or if it is just the same old “rubber man” behavior…

    Texting me does not equate anything; he has to be present or it is just words…

    Again we want something so bad, that we forget to read the small print… Being alone gives me the space to let the right man find me…

  352.  #352Siren Angel on September 12, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    BW @270,

    I believe M was so triggered that I don’t know w sohat his reaction would have been should I have been the one to end things. In any case, he says he suffered a lot while we were apart and hopefully we can work this out now knowing there was pain when not together.

    I do appreciate all your input and your parenting does seem very similar to mine and that makes me feel good because, frankly, I have been second guessing myself and have felt so blamed. So THANK YOU BW!

  353.  #353LoveAlways on September 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    Hi Memulo:

    I see it in his eyes when we gaze at each other . . . I’m in no rush to hear it 🙂

  354.  #354Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 8:32 pm


    He says he doesn’t want to hurt people, but he does hurt you. I agree that leaning back and giving yourself some space can help you feel what you really want to do and to invite in your life. Even if it’s nothing:)

  355.  #355Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    SA, I believe you can more often than not identify a person’s parenting style by looking at their children.

    Your sons come across to me as great kids who know their limits and boundaries. I honestly don’t think you have done ANYTHING wrong at all, so there is no need to doubt yourself at all in that regard.

    My ex’s gf has a beautiful little girl and I knew as soon as I met this little girl that she has a very good and loving mother.

    I was right – and she showers my daughter with love and affection too, and that just warms my heart.

    You’re a great mother SA, so don’t you let anyone tell you otherwise!

  356.  #356Memulo on September 12, 2012 at 8:33 pm


    It sounded from your prior posts that he already told you so.. from his actions:)

  357.  #357Turquoise on September 12, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Good night sirens,

    I feel so sleepy. Going to bed thinking about where I want to be in 3-6 months. No long distance plans for me. 🙂

    I do have a question… for all you single ladies out there…. how many of you have a special friend or an ex that you see when you have, ahem… an urge? I feel frustrated by the lack of sex in my life. I’m 38, not getting any younger, and feels terrible to me when I think of what I’m missing, just because I don’t have a serious boyfriend.

    C and I went down that road too many times. Makes it more complicated than it’s worth.

    Mr. C and I are being just friends, so don’t want to complicate that.

    But, when I saw Tom in July, I didn’t sleep with him, but wasn’t for lack of him trying. I did let him kiss me, and it felt wonderful. I just relaxed and enjoyed the attention. I’m considering reaching out to him, to see him again. The sex was pretty good, the kissing is great, and I’m not emotionally attached to him anymore, so feel I could just enjoy what it would be, casual sex, and go on with my life as usual.

    What do you think? I have wants and needs, and desires, and it clouds my brain sometimes.

  358.  #358Luzydel on September 12, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    357: Turquoise

    I tried that with DW; I had that urge and hey he is good at it so why not…it gets complicated. Now he is either pretending or really wants more, and I am feeling confused. what if he is serious? what if I miss on someone else by hanging on him? He thinks he owns me now, and he is saying he is not going anywhere…

    If it is just casual you want, do it once and then don’t see him again, because it gets confusing.

  359.  #359Tereana on September 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    @Goddess Lily (#3) “Is it ok to put exes into rotation for circular dating?”

    I for sure hope so! I’ve just done it twice in one week : )

  360.  #360Tereana on September 12, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    Here’s a repost from the last thread:

    Sooooo. Just had a “talk” with tbf. Definitely we are not moving too fast. We still both want to keep watching to see how it goes. And he’s not moving too fast for me, physically, either.

    And that’s good because….ugh. I’m embarrassed to admit it, and I don’t know why – I’ve mentioned it before – but I don’t really like the way he kisses me. I can’t explain it. Some guys just gross me out with their kissing. I feel afraid of his tongue, for some reason. There’s nothing wrong with it. It just feels gross and slimy. And not turning me on. It’s distracting.

    And that, combined with how I know vman turns me on, and the sexy dream I had of him (plus fantasies – !)…I feel like one confused siren.

    I wish that I could have all the directed, committed talk of tbf combined with the red-hot chemistry I find with vman. darnit. Can’t I just mash them together and make my one perfect man-partner? lol

    I have not let tbf go just yet, because he is so obviously a good man, and he has done so many great things. He really sees me and values me. And that’s great. but on the other hand, if the attraction isn’t there, then it isn’t working. If I’m this squeamish about his kissing then sex is going to be not that pleasant for me. *sigh* I’m too tired to really do anything or think about it right now.

    I don’t want to be single. But I don’t want to be that girl who stays in a relationship just to not be single anymore, either. Maybe there is a third option. Don’t know what it is yet, but maybe it’s there.

    It reminds me of the caterpillars in the Labyrinth who tell the girl to just keep walking forward when all she can see is a wall. So she does, and then she discovers that it is an illusion, and actually she could walk right through and find the path.

    I hope that’s what this is like. I feel like even though I see a wall in front of me, and it doesn’t look like the right way to go, maybe if I just keep walking, going forward, it will change my perspective, and then I’ll see the way….ahh, that feels good. 🙂

    Okay, good night, Sirens! zzzz

  361.  #361Butterfly wings on September 12, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    TH just walked up to my desk and handed me some yogurt and fresh fruit to eat for afternoon tea. Nice! 🙂

    Last night I felt turned off by what he’d done and I felt an emotional shift away from him – like he had suddenly become less valuable to me.

    And now he’s making amends it seems, by changing that profile pic and giving me food.

    What I didn’t do this time like I used to do, was make a big deal about it and let him have it.

    Instead I expressed my feelings, also stating that while I initially felt angry, we weren’t in a relationship so he was free to do what he wants, even though it turned me off.

    This time I didn’t make him wrong like I would have before.


  362.  #362Goddess Lily on September 12, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    357 and 358: Turquoise,

    I’m thinking about doing that now (RE: 230) with my ex from work. We just have amazing chemistry and friendship but I’m scared it would get complicated like Luzydel said. And yet that’s all I can think about since we put the possibility of sex on the table today.

    If you can do that without getting emotionally involved (sounds like maybe you can), I say do it….do it big! 🙂

    Otherwise, try Luzydel’s suggestion of a one time fix.

  363.  #363Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    I am not happy..I am falling off my horse and can’t believe it after having such a resolve yesterday.
    My subconscious is sabotaging me, this is the 3rd night in a row I dream of MrP..and while the others were fairly innocent, tonight I dreamt that his ex girlfriend posted on facebook (silly facebook), a photo of him, saying ‘this is the best man on the planet’.
    I know it’s hilarious, isn’t it??? It would be funny if it hadn’t actually disturbed my sleep!!!
    And, thing is, I never remember my dreams usually, so it’s even more disturbing as I have not been sleepin well. I can’t believe my subconscience is sabotaging me and making me fall off the horse this morning…so I actually admit stalking a common friend whom he always posts on her wall and I saw he had again – but not answered me email yet.
    What was I doing????
    Must get back on the horse.

  364.  #364Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    360 Tereana, perhaps stay open. The kissing is a major thing for me too, and there are some men that I can’t even kiss because somehow the chemicals are WAY off. However, perhaps he can learn to kiss better with time? (less tongue maybe in this case..lol)
    I know it sounds weird but it’s happened to me, where it did change and got better…not all is lost!

  365.  #365Tam on September 12, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    357 – Turqouise – I also miss sex, and don’t have a special friend..maybe I would, but then again I found it didn’t give me as much in the long run and I need to now love someone to have sex with them..at leats a little 😉
    But yep, it’s annoying….I am worried I’ll be an old spinster at this rate…I would love a sex life 🙁
    well, within a relationship.

  366.  #366Sirenity on September 13, 2012 at 12:34 am

    “we want something so bad, that we forget to read the small print… Being alone gives me the space to let the right man find me…”

    Luzydel this is totally profound…read the small print ..yes i get that !!

    And being alone so the right man can find you ?
    Yes , maybe. Not exactly alone, just not encumbered by a man who isnt offering what you want!

    You might be surrounded by good men all jostling to get your attention, but only when you step away from an empty handed man who wants to own you..

  367.  #367Daria on September 13, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Brandylion – its not about You that a couple of men aren’t able to meet you… theres a river of men they come and go… and at first we kinda start with men who can’t step up, cuz in a way its more comfortable for us energetically if we’re not used to receiving love and lots of attention…

    then as we keep practicing the tools, and improving both our opennes and our boundaries… men drop off and a new batch, usually with improved men, shows up

    what you mentioned happening is totally common! keep on practicing and focus on the tools You used, and the feelings yuou had, and get thrilled everytime you took a babystep to use a new tool or a tool in a diff way… forget about the guys and whether they’re stepping up, just notice when/if they do

    thats how it works as therapy and to have fast healing results

  368.  #368Tam on September 13, 2012 at 1:38 am

    Not a happy bunny. I don’t want to wake up feeling weird again. 3 mornings in a row is enough dreaming.
    Tonight I will make an effort to think about something specific before falling asleep, I need to relax my subconscious now. I do hope this is possible.

  369.  #369Tam on September 13, 2012 at 1:56 am

    Overwhelming sense of urgency today.
    Feeling like throwing the man-baby out with the bathwater. Urgh.
    I want to tell him that I feel scared, and the reason I won’t let him pick me up from the airport is because I am scared. Urgh.
    I feel scared to get attached, I want to push it away.
    So now what? I am going to spend 2 weeks now fretting.
    My sense of urgency wants to be done with it, wants to set the lines, set the boundaries. Now, before I even come out there.
    My sense of urgency wants to protect my heart.
    I can let it pass…but I so so want to get it out and tell him that I am scared.
    Everytime this happens I go and write some email to CD’s, get busy with work – nothing is working today.
    Do something nice for me, make tea…calm down.
    Pushing it all away is not going to help.
    I feel like I need to ‘warn’ before I even get there. ‘don’t mess with me’. ‘don’t lead me on and then drop me’. ‘I don’t want…
    Ok, calm down.

  370.  #370Tam on September 13, 2012 at 2:13 am

    I am going to the pharmacist to see if they have something herbally I can take to calm myself down also because I have some dentist appointments coming up. I can’t deal with this anymore….herbs, help me.

  371.  #371Butterfly Wings on September 13, 2012 at 2:50 am

    Eeek! TH emailed me asking when I was finishing work today and I told him the time and then asked why. I knew why. He obviously wanted to go home with me.

    He knew I was taking my daughter shopping though, and he also knew I was originally going to meet him at the gym afterwards.

    So on our way home he said he had to be home by 7.30 and I told him I wouldn’t be finished shopping by then. He kept insisting I go shopping another day and I told him that I had promised my daughter I would take her tonight, so I was taking her tonight.

    I probably shouldn’t have, but I offered to drive him home beforehand so he could be home well before 7.30 but he declined, saying he’d catch the train back to his house.

    He then said not to worry about meeting him at the gym later. I replied with “Ok, that’s fine. I’ll work out at home instead”. I really didn’t care either way…

    When we got off the train he seemed angry and didn’t even say goodbye. Meh. I wasn’t bothered. He was obviously in a cranky mood about something but I had NO idea what!

    So I’m out shopping with my daughter and I received a text saying he was sick of this sh*t and we needed to talk. What sh*t? lol

    So he’s been stewing over something and I have no idea what, apart from the fact that my attitude isn’t one of “OMG I don’t want to lose you!” anymore!

    So tonight he will probably grumble about that attitude, but in the most girly way possible I will remind him that HE is the one who wanted to take a step back, and as a result I’ve had to look after me and my feelings in the best way I know how, and that’s by focusing on what makes me feel good.

    And if he doesn’t like it, then that’s up to him. He is free to leave my life anytime he pleases… I’m not really bothered either way right now.. 🙂

  372.  #372Sirenity on September 13, 2012 at 2:50 am

    Thank you Dominique for your comments about herbal medicines and kidney breathing a couple of posts ago. I do appreciate that.
    I do lots of yoga and various breathing techniques but not tat one , so will be trying it.

  373.  #373Tam on September 13, 2012 at 2:58 am

    BW….that’s a great position to be in….I am wondering what he is going to say..hehe

  374.  #374Butterfly Wings on September 13, 2012 at 3:21 am

    Tam, I think he’s going to express his frustration with me, and will probably act like any guy who has a woman who has suddenly shifted her focus away from him and on to her. 🙂

    The fact that he wants to talk (and he’s thinking of fun times also, going by his last text!), is a sign that he may want to change our “status” but not sure, and I’m not holding any expectations or hope on that front.

    I really need to stick with my boundaries and make sure that while he is not in a relationship with me, then I will also do whatever I want and I don’t have to run anything by him at all. 🙂

  375.  #375Heart on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Update : Very busy and overwhelmed.
    I still haven’t heard from Cuddleygrinch.
    But he post on his FB today.
    I feel confused…and I feel like I did something wrong…I feel a little angry and sad too.
    WTF is wrong with him?
    Is he trying to show me he is no longer interested?

  376.  #376Tam on September 13, 2012 at 3:33 am

    I am freaking out ladies, I am having as lie down over lunch and listening to Abraham.
    My head is going crazy and I want to push it all away and that is not a solution. I just saw so many things that scare me, I think because he is pursuing me now…and I just want to run actually.
    And I feel uneasy because I won’t hear from him for 2 weeks now and then he’ll pounce most likely.
    I realise he lost out on 6 months earnings on his condo presumably because I ‘might’ spend the odd weekend down there again and all sorts of other stuff that I have tried to blank out of my mind.
    I worry because I know he acts from a safe point ‘I am going to move away so don’t expect anything’.
    I want to tell him how I feel about that before I see him but I don’t know if this is a good idea. It might push him away, but then….maybe that would be a good thing.
    I need a break from thinking…focus on me, on me, on me.
    Thanks for listening.

  377.  #377Heart on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 am

    #29 -Tam – wow really? Gosh what is with this AWOL behaviour!

  378.  #378Tam on September 13, 2012 at 3:35 am

    Heart – you’ll hear from him alright….mark my words

  379.  #379forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 3:46 am

    Oh tam! Breathe! It’s all going to be fine. Baby steps.

    You are doing a great job of taking care of yourself so far and I so think you did the right thing telling him you don’t feel good thinking about him leaving.

    Now that he is pursuing you you don’t have to do anything. Lean back and respond when he contacts you. And you get to say I don’t want to anything you don’t want. You can take care of yourself. You have boundaries now!

  380.  #380forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 am

    Heart he will call you when he wants to.

  381.  #381forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 3:49 am

    Also to get out of your head tam what do you do? Sometimes listening to stuff is good but it’s more data more info more thoughts. What are you feeling? How can you get more in tune with your body? Yoga? Breathing?

  382.  #382forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 4:05 am

    So I’m wondering g more about what Daria said about usi g the tools. I guess it’s like a 12 step program in some ways lol! We’ve got to be willing or desperate enough to take suggestions and follow some rules.

    So as I don’t have any of the programs I’m just going by the ebook and what I’ve learned here on the blog.

    I’ve had great success with the lean back tool. What are the other ones. The rr stance. Daria when I meditate I try to meditate with open palms in receiving mode. Very hard to do walking but I’ll try it.

    Ruth I thought it was fascinating what you said about listening to your patients in an open hearted position.

    Other tools? Using the word feel at every opportunity. It felt weird at first but I’m getting more used to it.

    Dropping into my feelings instead of being in my head.

    BW your attitude is an inspiration. I can literally feel from your words how much freedom you are giving him., and he is getting angry! Rori says anger is good right!

    I have a feeling I’m going to be using the we are not in a relationship speech soon so you don’t have access to my time anymore. I’ve always been afraid to say those words but you have inspired me to.

    I’m also understanding now that when I’m focused on one man I literally can’t see other men. Now I’m seeing there are other men out there.

  383.  #383Heart on September 13, 2012 at 4:07 am

    #376 – Tam -Take a hot bath if you can? It’s ok to progress and regress and progress and regress…Don’t beat yourself upfor being a wave. This situation is coming to a head and you’re scared. It’s ok. How long will u be in FL?

  384.  #384Vi on September 13, 2012 at 4:11 am

    Please skip this venting because I think it’s ‘ugly’ and I do need to let it out ….

    Doing Feldenkreis I came to knowing that I hate people incl. myself and it feels okay to have a man who used to express his love to me and care about me not the way I like and my benefit is I don’t have to care much about him either and I actually don’t want to. And I feel absolutely stupid writing this. And I feel ashamed and scared. And I feel hollow. And huge walls surrounding me. And there is a thought ‘how did I happen not to kill anyone by this time ..? How can mother earth tolerate me?… ‘ And I am really really blessed with the life I have and it was so so kind to me … The life has always been so kind to me and I .. I … I feel teary. And I feel not worthy …. (maybe that’s why I feel unworthy most of the time…. but this is being in the head) … I feel sad ashamed and scared. And I also feel curious what’s next there for me.. okay I love my journey I love my hate I love my feeling of hollowness I love my walls I love my feeling lost, and love my fear I love my tears I love my sadness I love my shame. I love myself…. I feel like I am a monster. And my favourite cartoon is Monsters Inc.. And I used a pic of Mike as an avatar for a long time… ‘we scare because we care ‘ .. hehe .. it’s about my fears, my caring fears ((((fears)))) Am I scared of people? .. mmm.. most probably .. but I don’t ‘feel’ it yet.. I feel I am in my head ‘figuring it out’ …. I’ll stick to my feeling of hollowness … I want to honor it … my teeth clenched.. ((((((((hollowness))))) thank you.

  385.  #385Tam on September 13, 2012 at 4:11 am

    Thank you forest siren and heart. I have just listened to music and listened to myself. And I realise that I have toyed so many years with failure, not just relationships but generally I had a few bad years…and now the thought of my wildest dreams coming true scares me more than the thought of them not coming true.
    That’s all it is. What would I have to focus on in case everything turned out well for a change?
    I guess deep down I am scared of everything going well as it’s been soooo long 🙁
    I am frightened out of my mind. And thank Goodness for this blog and all of you, so I don’t spew it on anyone else.

  386.  #386Tam on September 13, 2012 at 4:19 am

    Heart – I am going to be there 3-6 months, possibly permanently if I can work it out but that’s unlikely right now…it’s all part of the big story…the scary bits. I’d still be there now if I hadn’t ditched my bf….but that was ok, we were not well matched and MrP appeare on the scene…it was a bit of a mess. Hence I am even more wary.
    I see big letters ‘FEAR’
    That’s why I want to tell him “i feel scared and not sure I can see you”
    It was a bit of drama.

  387.  #387Daria on September 13, 2012 at 4:45 am

    it would feel sooo good to have some energetic support right now!

    thank you! yum!!!

    and yes if you’re reading this, even if I don’t know you, and we’ve never directly communicated, it would feel awesome to receive your energetic support! really, I give permission to anyone who wants to … it would feel great and lovely to receive it!

  388.  #388Daria on September 13, 2012 at 4:47 am

    Vi – i didn’t want to skip it.. that ‘uglyness’ felt beautiful and healing… thank you for sharing it

  389.  #389Goddess Lily on September 13, 2012 at 4:50 am

    I support you Daria….with all the energy I have this morning!! You are a wealth of support and encouragement to others. Feel my positive energy coming towards you! 🙂

  390.  #390Daria on September 13, 2012 at 4:50 am

    ((((forest siren))))

  391.  #391Daria on September 13, 2012 at 4:52 am

    Goddess Lily – i feel it and my heart feels all open and im giggglin really loudly and happilyyyyy

    heyyyyyyyyyyy thank you!!!!!


    that feels so yummmyieeeee

    it would feel great to have some of 2nd chakra support


    oh i feel a release and its already healing there




    thank you !!!!!! for saying those wonderful feeling things about me toooo 🙂

  392.  #392Goddess Lily on September 13, 2012 at 4:54 am

    Vi, I also didn’t skip your post. It was like a big red button that says “do not push.”

    You are FREE to express yourself here and feel your feelings. It’s good that you were open to them and not hiding from yourself.

  393.  #393Daria on September 13, 2012 at 4:54 am

    i had this belief that ‘i have to do it all myself, or else i willl get dependent and addicted on support from outside and not heal’

    and i was in a great space today and realizeed… ummm thats NOT TRUE!!!!

    helping myself does help to Attract help yes,

    but asking for help and saying it would feel great to have it is AWESOME and a GREAT way to help myself

    oh healing healing

    Daria is healing mucho muchissimo

    que linda la vida :))) !!!!!

  394.  #394forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 5:01 am

    Laughing goddess i am thinking of you and your visit to your mans family. Oh how thrilled they must be with you (((family))) xo

  395.  #395forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 5:06 am

    Thank you for the hug Daria!

    I am focusing on you now and doing distance reiki on you especially your 2ns chakra.

    I asked for a flower and smile gave me a beautiful one!

    Marianne Williamson asked online yesterday for healing for her throat and thousands sent it.

    I have so much to do around asking for what I want and not being polite and watching others get what I wanted while I was being polite and good.

    Lionman gave me a huge gift once that literally recalibrated a childhood trauma for me. It’s a gift that I enjoy everyday. ((((Lionman)))) he doesn’t even fully know the significance of what he did. Maybe I should tell him how he literally cured that wound.

  396.  #396forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 5:14 am

    Daria for what it’s worth I’m receiving g a message for you! Feel free to disregard if not applicable. I’m being asked to ask you if you know about gem light therapy? You might find it useful. You can google it. I tried it a few months ago I liked it a lot very gentle and is very subtle and healing. Also while working on your 2 nd chakra my attention kept being drawn to your heart which feels strong and healthy. I’m not sure why but my attention was drawn there. Maybe it means you have a very strong and magnetic heart energy.

  397.  #397Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 5:20 am

    Receiving Girl,

    252 – “That is just not cool. I would feel very bad about that as well. I hope you were able to get past that with them and it didn’t cause too much damage.”

    Yes, I was. But Cris is still totally closed to K and says don’t tell him a single thing about me. Totally understandable. My Mom is so forgiving and accepting. She even now says I love K, and she lit up when I let her read a handmade card he had sent me.

    There is a side to him that is very very sweet, and he has a heart of gold. It’s just that negative side makes him hard to enjoy.

  398.  #398Daria on September 13, 2012 at 5:24 am

    male female energy … feels interesting in perspective


  399.  #399Tam on September 13, 2012 at 5:26 am

    Hm. I tried to sink into my fear.
    And after, I just tried to work out rationally whay are my best interests.
    My best interests are not to keep seeing MrP and discussing his move, which is all he seems to be doing even now over emails.
    He wants to go boating to ‘talk about it’. He wants me to help him selling up and leaving.
    Is any of that in my best interests? Well, no. Yes, of course he also wants to see me, but I am really not sure if staying open and welcoming is the way to go here, I can see myself getting sucked in to just collect more pain and rejection and what for? Being able to wave him goodbye with a hankie at the airport?
    He is definitely going. So why am I doing this?
    Why am I there, and should I be there? This is not the road to my happy ever after, as far as I can see.
    I know a lot of it is fear of intimacy speaking, but really objectively looking at it is giving me the same answers.
    I am not in the mood for experimenting anymore.
    And I do want to make that clear to him.
    Because he has his win-win situation, he gets a friend, a little helper and someone with immigration experience to ask for advice. This is not who I want to be.
    Yes, I do want to make that clear to him, and I want to make it clear before meeting him, because else I will get sucked in and won’t get my opportunity to state my needs clearly, without blame and without neediness.
    And now?

  400.  #400forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 5:29 am

    Hmmm tam that’s tough. Do you feel you could say it feels too sad to help you pack up and leave? Remember what we were saying about having nothing to lose by being really honest? When he says he is going o be here and there what does that mean? How concrete are his plans to leave?

  401.  #401Daria on September 13, 2012 at 5:30 am

    forest siren – thank you! yes my heart hehehe

    i healed some of the lower chakras and my energy is pouring up from lower chakra into my heart

    i cried witha lot of heart ache earlier – feeling better and drank some water

    my heart does feel powerful right now and healed with my crying


    i’ve been practicing that tool Rori shared about imagining my heart beating powerfully and calmly in my chest warming me the past week adn that has felt really empowering for me

    Gems have been coming to me like wow the past months, while before i kinda pushed them away or didn’t relaly feel drawn to them

    now i have a what you call it … ahhh that shiny iron ore stone that is red inside if it’s scratched, bloodstone

    i play with all the time

    as im reading this i see silver has taken great care of me thru my life

    and now i have a big purple amethyst stone that wanted to come with me from the mountains its a stone i read related to my month of birth June…

    and i have heard about and felt intrigued by Gem therapy before (i know its not just stones, but a healing with them)

    thank you for sharing that for me! I feel curious about it and wonder how it will show up for me !

  402.  #402Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 5:31 am

    Good morning Sirens!

    Woke up in the hotel room, feeling taken care of. Yet, I got this sudden fear that he would show up at the hotel after dropping his kids to school. I know he probably doesnt have time to do that, but the thought of it actually scared me, because that would not feel good.

    Other than that, I thanked the Universe waking up this morning for M in my life and for what is ahead and I feel hopeful.

  403.  #403Daria on September 13, 2012 at 5:31 am

    forest siren – thank you for the reiki. my second chakra is Not feeling tight like it was getting here and there anymore

    i feel soothed and sleepy…


  404.  #404Daria on September 13, 2012 at 5:34 am

    thank you all who are helping me!

  405.  #405forest siren on September 13, 2012 at 5:44 am


    Daria you have probably seen this before the images of the heart is what I want to share its magnetic field of influence

    Also I love stones too I have a collection. The gems feel different to me I’ll be curious to see how they show up for you!

  406.  #406Tam on September 13, 2012 at 5:46 am

    400 forest siren, very concrete plans but he says now he is keeping a property, so suddenly he plans to return or at least keep that option open.
    It looks more like ‘travelling’ than ‘moving’ now, but it’s for at least a year I am sure.
    The problem is it would feel good to go boating and seeing him and I love to help him, we always have a lot of fun together…but this is exactly the crux…I would be shovelling my own grave as it were…
    Happily walking into more pain, because he is definitely going, he is getting rid of all his toys and has already advertised them.
    So I don’t know what to do. I do want to tell him the truth about how I feel and I am worried that once I am back there, I will go with the flow and can’t take good care of myself. That’s why I would like to tell him before getting there..because I can take my time to word it properly and I have not seen him yet…which changes everything again. I worry the man crack issue might appear….

  407.  #407Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 5:51 am

    Tam, what in his words, has he offered you?

  408.  #408Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 5:52 am

    Even if the mancrack issue appears, you are in charge of you. You always have a choice.

  409.  #409ReceivingGirl on September 13, 2012 at 5:55 am

    (((Daria))) You have my energetic support girl!! 🙂

  410.  #410Tam on September 13, 2012 at 5:56 am

    407 FW – exactly! He has offered me help – whatever I need (whatever that means). Doing stuff together, activities etc.
    So in a word: nothing concrete. Friendship stuff.
    This is the point.
    He can’t express himself though, that’s another problem – but I am not filling in the gaps anymore.
    I feel exasperated and like I don’t want to discuss his leaving and the selling of his stuff. I want to be romanced and taken out and given a ring.
    There you have it.
    I don’t want to accept crumbs just to ‘be with him’.
    And I want to make that clear so I am not sliding into that mess without realising it.

  411.  #411Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 5:58 am

    Vi do you mind saying what Feldenkreis entails.

  412.  #412Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 6:01 am

    Tam I would only focus on what he is offering. It seems to me that you are overanalyzing and making some assumptions. If he did not offer romance you have the choice around how much time you spend with him doing activities. If you think he is trading his offers for your help with what he needs, it might be useful to have that clarified.

  413.  #413Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 6:02 am

    What you focus on grows.

  414.  #414Sassy on September 13, 2012 at 6:03 am

    No, I felt none of those. What I’m feeling lately is frustrated. Ugh!!! With a lot of things.
    While I understand this concept of Roris tools, and feel confident that I am changing and learning and growing, sometimes it feels as if we are giving men way too much power. I could go on and on about why I feel this way, but I’m just not up to it. I feel weary and exhausted.
    The one thing you said Turq, that really struck me (and you’ve actually said it twice) is that you want someone to be your other half. Now, I get your meaning, this is a “buzzword” or phrase, but, I feel a man/companion/SO, should be a compliment to our whole selves. I feel I need to be my total self and be ok with him or without him. He should be an “accessory” to my life,
    I don’t know if this even makes any sense, I have much work to do on myself before I can let someone back in. Anyway, I love reading your process/progress, you have come a long way, and I feel proud of you.

  415.  #415Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:12 am

    My attitude towards men right now is very much “whatever.” I kind of feel like “eh, they’re there.” Leanback central. I don’t care.

    (except when I do care about old ones that meant something to me, or represent an ideal to me.)

    but I digress.

    Last night, Mr. Stare-Me-Down that made me feel super exposed/creeped out that would not smile or approach me was like…waiting for me last night after my class.

    and I was very much in “I don’t care, whatever” mode, which means I wasn’t all like “oh…what am I feeling? Okay, I need to lean back.”

    Sometimes I feel like “worrying” about leaning back has a lean forward-y kind of energy about it anyway.

    I digress.

    So, I didn’t care. and he was standing there so I said these magical words, “Hi, I am a butterfly. What’s your name?”

    and I swear, he lit up like a Christmas tree because I spoke to him. and all of the sudden we were walking together slowly. It felt so natural it was weird. and he said, “actually we went to this school together like seven years ago.” and turns out, we did. (it was a pretty small school, and just for one semester together.)

    soooo weird!

    I felt shocked at how nice and down to earth he was. (I swear the way he was staring at me a couple of months ago was downright creepy.)

    anyway, when we went our seperate ways (in a way that we could’ve picked back up later, but we didn’t for whatever reason) I realized that how good I felt with him felt really unfamiliar, and because it felt unfamilar, it felt scary.

    I don’t know what to make of this…

    but I’ll see him next time I have class…

    got to keep my heart open!

    feels scary, exciting, and curious!

    It seriously felt so natural and comfortable with him almost immediately…

    which makes me feel a little nervous, because I know what Rori says about that…

    …or do I?


  416.  #416Tam on September 13, 2012 at 6:13 am

    412 FW, yes. Well, I do know him quite well, so although it is analysing, what he is offering translates as dating.
    In which case if I focus only on what he is offering, I need to make a ‘no friends’ speech….I just don’t see myself doing all that stuff with him, staying open, he will make advances (it’s always the same pattern) and just as things evolve, BANG…he will still be moving away. These are all facts not analysing because it’s a patter that has been repeated ad infinitum: there is always something stopping him from committing.
    I just don’t really want to go there again.
    I do feel that if he wants to meet me and enjoy my company, things have to change. The only way of changing anything is if I state my needs clearly – and I have to be prepared to lose him completely.
    And I am in that frame of mind now, but it will be harder once I am there.
    So I should state my truth now. All that will most likely happen is that he runs – and then I have my answer and can start fresh when I am there, and start without him muddling in my life.

  417.  #417Tam on September 13, 2012 at 6:15 am

    It’s becoming clearer for me. I need clarity, even if that might mean suffocating a little growing plant before it has the chance to develop a couple of leaves.

  418.  #418Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:16 am

    I feel as though I’ve misinterpretted what leanback means. I feel so scared I don’t respond enough, for fear of leaning forward. and I do lean forward sometimes still, I know.

    This is old news to me, and everyone on here, I’m sure.

    Just processing and rehashing.

    Feels freeing.

    Feels great!

  419.  #419Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 6:21 am


    I’m going to tell you something that’s going to save you a ton of time – especially the hours you spend dissecting a man’s behavior.

    When a man doesn’t call once you’ve connected in a deeper way, there are only three possible reasons why:

    1) He doesn’t know what to do with the connection you share because it’s not the right time for him

    2) He doesn’t know what to do with the connection you share because he’s not mature or capable of getting any closer

    3) Something was said or done that tells him that a relationship with you is not a fit for him.

    There’s absolutely nothing you can do about the first two reasons.

    No matter how amazing you are, a man who isn’t ready for a relationship won’t suddenly become ready or mature because of anything you do, say, or are.

    But screeching halt at number three, right?

    Your worst fears are confirmed: something you say or do CAN make a man turn in the opposite direction. Well, not exactly. It’s something else…


    Many women, after knowing a guy for only a short while, let themselves get wrapped up in what I call an Instant Relationship.

    This is when a woman will already be thinking ahead that she is in a relationship with a guy, that they will be spending all their weekends together, and that he won’t be dating any other women.

    And this happens when the guy hasn’t even talked about a relationship.

    Then the woman gets disappointed when it turns out he isn’t exclusive with her or isn’t making plans to see her on Friday.


  420.  #420Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 6:24 am


    There’s one thing that all men love and respond to, and it’s one of the most simple but powerful secrets to leaving a man wanting more. And this one thing is APPRECIATION.

    Appreciation to men is what affection and reassurance are to women.

    Men fall in love not when a woman gives and gives to them, but through the process of having a woman they enjoy giving to.

    So if you’re worried that a man will think you’re not interested in him if you don’t move things forward, here’s what you need to know: all you need to do is show a man appreciation.

    Let’s say you’ve had a great date with a man and you definitely want him to ask you out again.

    All you have to do at the end of the date is thank him and let him know you had a great time with him.

    The trick is to express genuine appreciation without any “hook” or conditions to it.

    That is the magic way that appreciation sinks into a man’s heart and lets him know a woman is special – and gets him thinking about her again right away.

    When you make your life as rich as possible, the right guy will naturally want to be a part of it. And when he does show up, simply let him know you’re glad he’s in it.

    This way, you won’t fall victim to the Instant Relationship…and you’ll create a solid foundation for a lasting, connected, REAL relationship.

    I’ll talk to you again soon, and best of luck in life and love.

    Your Friend,

    Christian Carter

  421.  #421Tam on September 13, 2012 at 6:24 am

    yes, the only chance to break through the pattern of insecurity and not knowing where one stands is, in my opinion now, to say no to friends.
    If a man after 2 years can’t be clear on what he wants then the default assumption is that it’s not me he wants.
    This could drag on and on. Just so he can stay in his comfort zone, and doesn’t need to make a decision.
    It’s not the way forward even if spending time with him would be lovely. The price to pay is too high, and I paid it a few times before.

  422.  #422Annie on September 13, 2012 at 6:24 am

    I feel curious about FB and online networking in general.
    I have mixed feelings and thoughts about it.

    I know Rori recommends not to be friends with a man on FB if we are dating them.
    And I actually defriended two men who I did date. One I keep as an acquaintance at the moment.
    The other no contact anymore.

    Now although I got to this point and I had painful moments by being friends on FB with them. I actually do feel grateful now as I found out stuff much quicker than I believe i would have found out in RL and realised I did not want to take in any father
    with either of these men because of their behavior on FB and how it made me feel.

    The one who I am still in contact with I was extremely attracted to his mind as we had some really deep conversations which I don’t get to experience much with others also I was attracted to his gentleness and kindness that he has with animals and appeared to have with me.
    However through FB discovered a side very quickly that repelled me, I feel grateful I found this out and didn’t start to get emotionally attached to this man and take it any further.
    I would have carried on dating him and who knows if it wasn’t for FB.
    He invited me to a select group like a blog.I accepted, what an eye opener, he revealed really personal stuff about his ex wife to everyone in the group that she may not have wanted to be shared using her real name. He also shared this info with some of his students who got to meet his wife and new this about her without his knowledge.
    I felt so triggered. She had been violated, he went into lots of detail and shared lots of private stuff. He painted her very badly and got lots of women feeling sorry for him , oh yes this select group was only women ‘friends’. Most joined in and ran her down which he appeared to love and felt sorry for him. Myself with a couple of others said we felt uncomfortable reading such private stuff without her knowledge. If she had chosen to share to me it would feel different. If if he had just chosen to share anything that he had done to her and was about him. But the sharing of the violating stuff in graphic detail that had happened to her felt awful and I felt like I was party to violating her all over again by listening to the revalations and others judgments of her.

    So I feel grateful that I got to know this about this man. As I feel sure that he would have been doing the same about me if I had got involved with him and shared any of my own private stuff.

    The other man I was emotionally involved with, claimed he loved me, was in love me, would love me forever, used to say things like “when we are married. flirted openly on his FB page and put stuff up that he actually knew would cause me to be upset. And called women derogatory names when their was any conflict.

    I guess my question is.
    Will chatting online reveal more about the man as in my experience men tell you much more about themselves online than in RL.
    So although it may trigger us, is it a blessing in disguise?

  423.  #423Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 6:26 am

    Consult him first…

    Understand Men Tip #48

    Many men find on their way home that you have
    made plans for them or their friends comment on
    their photo on Facebook and that’s when they learn
    about it for the first time.

    Men like to be consulted. This is honoring him as a
    man. Ask and invite instead of determining you get
    to make the decisions on your own. Even if he always
    says, “Yes,” he will appreciate being considered!

    Johnathan Aslay

  424.  #424Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:36 am

    oh, Feminine Woman, I feel like all those are for me!

    I feel so good, because nothing feels like a big deal for me, as far as “one particular man” goes.

    I think it may seem like I’m making a big deal over these “one particular guys” is not because I’m really making a big deal over THEM per say, but because of the things they are teaching me, about my ideals and responses to men, both in the past and in the present.

  425.  #425Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:37 am

    wow, I just realized that I finally feel more important than any one man in my life!

    I haven’t felt this way in forever!

    Why do I put men on pedestals?

    Maybe I don’t put the men on pedestals, so much as the lessons they teach me. I love the lessons they teach me!

  426.  #426Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:41 am

    I wrote a long emotional note to my Dad last night online after he sent me a picture of us.

    Seeing the picture made me cry.

    I opened up to him, and told him about pretty much everything going on in my life.

    I apologized for blaming him for all that I’ve blamed him for in the past.

    I told him about the guy who I feel unworthy of, because “the guy” reminds me so much of my dad, and I feel unworthy of my dad.

    Wow, I feel so much pain in my head and the tears are flowing like crazy.

    Why is love so painful?

  427.  #427Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:43 am

    I miss my parents! I want my Mommy! and Daddy!

    I feel immature and needy, but I also feel this…relief that I don’t think I’ve ever felt.

  428.  #428Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:46 am

    I think I’m finally healing! It’s like this tidal wave of healing and letting go!

    It feels so unbelievably overwhelming.

    Deeply sad and deeply relief-y.

    I feel too busy for the sheer messiness of it!

    but it feels glorious!

  429.  #429Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 6:53 am

    I feel like I suck at showing and feeling gratitude. At the appropriate times and the appropriate ways.

    and part of me is screaming inside right now:

    why can’t you just forgive yourself and show gratitude in your own way and in your own time, as long as you attempt to show it?


    and I feel like I’m contradicting myself, and that anybody reading all this out of boredom or curiousity or whatever is going to think I’m a total nut job.

    ouch that feels judgmental.

    I love my craziness! It feels silly, but I really do!

    I’m healing!

    I need to celebrate this, not over-analyze it!

    I want to just feel and be without thinking!

    I feel…burst-y.

    Like the universe is inside me waiting to explode out all over the place with butterflies and glitter and pretty messiness.

    It’s so messy.

    but it’s so beautiful.

  430.  #430Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 7:02 am

    I feel so thankful for “the guy who broke my heart.”

    Ick, I hate that label! He is just a man. Just a man that I loved and will always love and that taught me so much.

    How can you love so many people?

    How long do you have to know someone before you love them?

    I feel like people are so judgmental of love.

    There are different levels of love!

    Different depths, different meanings, different timelines…

    just because there’s so many different kinds of love, doesn’t mean that one love is “love” and another love “isn’t love.”

    and one person can love another person one way, while another person is loving that other person in a completely different way.

    but it’s all love!

    I feel really sleepy and confused.

    need a break from the blog.

    thanks for reading my spam, if you did!

  431.  #431Mel on September 13, 2012 at 7:10 am

    Thanks Butterfly Wings,

    It is not Yaz.

    I have had no side effects whatsoever… neither emotional, nor physical (except for the mild spotting this month).


    I have gone off the pill for several years, but the cramping and headaches were quite unbearable, really. The pill seems to balance out those hormones that were causing me a great deal of pain. I would prefer not to take hormones, but I haven’t really been able to find anything else that would keep me functional (my cramping gets so bad that I’m usually in tears on the floor in agony) during menstruation.

  432.  #432Tam on September 13, 2012 at 7:21 am

    no friends speech being drafted… 🙁

  433.  #433Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 7:23 am

    Trying to sink into my feelings about spending the night in a hotel, even if he paid for it and it was a gift, because he had his kiddies at his place last night… Argh…

  434.  #434Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 7:30 am

    now that I’ve gotten all that out of my system, I feel really embarassed that I wrote all that on the blog. But you know what? it felt cathartic and good.

    Who cares!

  435.  #435Tam on September 13, 2012 at 7:33 am

    434 – lama, yes, exactly, I have been all over the place here today but feeling much better, that is what counts!! (sorry everybody)

  436.  #436Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 7:36 am

    I can only receive, fixing it is his job. Finding a solution is his job. I can only sink into my feelings, shift my vibe, feel fully and be loving, warm and have an open heart. The rest is in his hands but my palms are open.

  437.  #437Tam on September 13, 2012 at 7:39 am

    I am not sure when to do the no friends speech, when he contacts me again…or now, like in the next few days. Not sure. I shouldn’t wait till I am there.

  438.  #438Goddess Lily on September 13, 2012 at 7:43 am

    I just confused a text message from my work ex into meaning he had free time today and wanted to spend time with me. Not what he was saying at all. He was telling me I should take leave and go do something since I’m bored at work.

    At least I didn’t respond until I understood. But how desperate am I if I can completely change the meaning of words?

    I guess I just want his attention. 🙁

  439.  #439Iamabutterfly on September 13, 2012 at 7:44 am

    @435 Tam – aw, I feel connected to you. No need to apologize! That’s what the blog is here for! (Thanks sooooo much, Rori! what a marvelous invention!) 😀

  440.  #440MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Omg Sirens!

    There is no way I can catch up on all i’ve missed! 😛

  441.  #441Goddess Lily on September 13, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Maybe I will take my exes advice and go home early. I’m starting to feel lonely and I don’t know how to sink into my feelings at work. Can’t cry here.

  442.  #442Tam on September 13, 2012 at 7:58 am

    I do feel the need to clarify my position but it is hard to know the right timing, if I do it now it will most likely scare him off or he will ignore it.
    If I do it in Florida, it will be very difficult because when I see him I most likely feel the attachment.
    It is hard to know what to do.

  443.  #443MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 8:06 am

    I need to get something off my shoulders. I feel nervous…

    For about a week now I have been feeling very ill in my belly when I wake up in the morning.

    Oh, writing it like that feels wrong 🙁 I don’t want to explain. Just want to get it out.


    Mornings. Sick sick belly. Ugh. Roiling bubbling and a few ghags. No barfing…But what would I throw up anyway? I have no appetite for hours after I wake up. Force feed. Bleck. Chew and chew but can’t swallow. Gagging right now just letting it float around my brain. Fear. Worry. Tender breasts and I just want to eat and eat at night time. Butterflies dance in my tummy right now. What if i’m pregnant? No what ifs…Just…I feel fear. No no no need to fear. I am not late. Oh he11! I don’t even know what I feel exactly. A baby is a blessing. I’m just not ready! I need 3 years at least. 5 would be nice. One more week and i’ll know…

  444.  #444Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:07 am


    I am sorry, I feel confused. Is the guy you want to give the no friends speech to living in Florida and you in England? How long will you be in Florida and how did you meet him, what is the history between you two? I want to help… but I am missing some pieces as I was off the blog for a few months.

  445.  #445Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:08 am


    You might be pregnant.

  446.  #446Heart on September 13, 2012 at 8:11 am

    #420 – FW – thanks. Now that I’ve read what you posted, I feel really good because I have a clearer idea the Whys. Not sure which of the three applies to me…But I just going to just fcus on myself.

    Tam – 3-6 months ….wow…longish time.

  447.  #447Tam on September 13, 2012 at 8:12 am

    Hi Siren Angel, we have known for 2 years, on-off relationship, lots of difficulties through his issues and mine and now suddenly he is pursuing me again…he is in Florida but about to move to Europe and I am in Europe about to move to Florida.
    Lots of angst-filled history, lots of feelings, I had given him the ‘no friends speech’ a few months ago, and he just kicked up a fuss and thought I was not well etc. He never gives up, hence we called him MrP (Persistent) BUT he has so far never offered a real commitment either.
    Now he wants to see me and wants me to help him selling his stuff (excuse to see me – I know, analysing here but I know him)….It’s not that I doubt he has strong feelings for me because I know that.
    It’s not enough for me though.

  448.  #448Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:13 am

    ReceivingGirl @267,

    “Even if he made up the hammer story…it is still something that came from his head. That is scary in itself. I would be worried too.”

    My thoughts exactly. I have doubts it’s true, I believe probably it comes from something that he witnessed or even saw in a movie or heard about… But that he said it to me feels really scary. So he decides to push me away, to protect his heart maybe, by scaring me. How can this be healed?

  449.  #449Tam on September 13, 2012 at 8:15 am

    oooh Miss Stix…. I say!

  450.  #450Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:17 am


    What is it that you truly want from this man if he did step-up? You seem unsure about either that he will ever step up or your own position on even wanting this to start with.

    Yes, I believe the no-friends speech could be a good start, if you are willing to see what he will offer you then. You can always decide to accept it or not should he step up.

    I do wonder on how you see this moving forward if you are moving to different countries. Is this something that can be changed for either of you so you can date and see each other in the same country and possibly build a future together?

  451.  #451Tam on September 13, 2012 at 8:29 am

    450, SA, I try not to think too far ahead…he has now changed his tune and said he wants to keep a property in Florida and insinuating that he is returning.
    If he stepped up fully – and by this I absolutely mean marriage, nothing else will do here anymore – of course I would have him, despite his difficult personality, he is a very very good man.
    The chances that he would offer any commitment let alone marriage, are about as high as h8ll freezing over…he has mentioned marriage but only in the context of me being able to stay in the US.
    That’s not what I am looking for.
    And he has told me lately that he would help me, ‘anything’ I needed…so who knows what that means but I am sick and tired of analysing and I don’t want help, I want love.

  452.  #452MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 8:30 am


    I feel tears burning my eyes. We are not extra careful…G is 34 and I am turning 29 on oct 1. We had a talk about this soon after we started dating, when I went off the pill. He asked me if I was pro-choice. I felt hot anger at first.I felt insulted. I said “I am pro-choice, but there would be no choice in my mind. It’s not an option.” When he said “good!” I just about melted into a puddle. He was not making sure he wouldn’t have a baby…He was making sure he wouldn’t conceive with someone who might make that choice. So…Here we are. We don’t use condoms. We don’t even use spermicidal lube. Nothing.

    Oi. Enough of that talk. This is not the first time I have thought I might be pregnant. Although it is the first time i’ve felt strange symptoms. The other times I was just a couple days late and it just felt more like a little waiting game.

    I have not shared my concerns with G. But he is not blind or stupid. He knows I feel sick in the morning and he sees me go for snacks immediately after dinner. This morning he must have read “ill” on my face because he suggested I make a doctors appt.

    With all the talk about kids lately…Wouldn’t that be the way it goes…urg.

  453.  #453Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:33 am


    Is he willing to go back to Europe if that is a deal-breaker for you?

  454.  #454Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 8:35 am


    Sometimes your mind can play games with your body and make you feel pregnant. First, go to the pharmacy and get a pregnancy test. Second, do it. Third, sink into what you are feeling.


  455.  #455Tam on September 13, 2012 at 8:37 am

    willing to go back to Florida you mean?
    Because that’s where I am heading…
    I have no idea.
    He hasn’t offered a commitment at all yet so that is the point…he might likely use his impending departure as an excuse not to offer one.
    And it would explain why he is so keen now, because it’s ‘safe’ for him…not sure

  456.  #456Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 8:41 am


  457.  #457Tam on September 13, 2012 at 8:41 am

    If I trusted myself fully, I would wait till I get there and ‘see how it goes’, but after 2 years, and knowing that we get on like a house on fire and have the best time (and are attracted to each other obviously)- it will be close to impossible to stay sane there and not fall back into old patterns..

  458.  #458MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Thinking….Ok maybe i’m blowing this out of proportion. Tender breasts. This started at least a week ago. Not unusual for me. But yes, unusual to happen that long before my period. The sick feeling. When did that start? Reaching into my brain…It had to be sunday. I worked tuesday and it only started a couple days before I worked. I can’t eat much in the morning and that would explain why i’m ravenous at night. 5 days feeling ill…Is that a long stretch? I wonder if it could be something else.

    Ok i’m gonna stop now. This convincing and denial are not working. I gotta find out how soon a doctor can test for pregnancy…I don’t know if I can wait! Oof. It popped into my brain fleetingly each morning. Each time my boob got grabbed and I cried out. But today, since G said I should make an appointment, I am so hyper-focused on it. I need something to pull me back!

  459.  #459Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 8:48 am

    (((Miss Stix)))

    You can get a pregnancy test at a store for about $5.

  460.  #460Belle on September 13, 2012 at 8:49 am


    Yes yes more of that please yes!
    I feel soft and cool and more fluid and melty in my chest. The words are like soft rose petals falling onto my heart.

    It’s one thing for my “mind” to understand, “time isn’t right, not ready” and another thing for my heart to finally get it.

    With C there was a sort of a flip, where apparently he was constantly fantasizing for months that we would be having all kinds of wild sex all over the office and I was like..
    what? we haven’t even had a date! we haven’t even had a conversation about STD’s, protection, circle of exposure, I don’t know if you have any other lovers, you don’t know if I do
    what the HECK???
    I like hugging and kissing you but I’m not having sex with you! (he thought we weren’t having sex because he was controlling himself so well, oh HAI, real live human being here with you with her own mind making her own choices! so sorry to butt in to your fantasy, dude..muahahaha oh was a clusterf**ck of confusion).

    Bad timing.
    Doesn’t know what to do with this connection.
    A friend of mine who is an intuitive told me, I’m not just another woman to him but he just doesn’t know how to approach me any other way than what he’s used to.

    We are practice for each other is all.


  461.  #461Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:02 am

    I don’t know what to do for the best. I want clarity and guess I need to accept that it’s a make or break clarity.

  462.  #462Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:09 am

    I am trouble analysing my feelings because I just can’t understand whether I really want the clarity – or whether I want to push it all away (fear of intimacy), because it’s scary that he is pursuing me so much all of a sudden…hmmmm…I am not sure.

    If I want clarity that would mean I have to be prepared to commit to him also 100%. Am I?
    Could I?
    I say ‘yes’, but deep down I know it would be no picnic. I say ‘yes’ because I have a feeling it’s a safe bet as I expect him to run when I ask for clarity.
    Yes, I fully expect him to run if I say ‘no friends’, or to just ignore it.

  463.  #463ruth on September 13, 2012 at 9:13 am


    To me it feels as though you are panicking as the move to Fl getrs closer and you want to be in control of the situation and know where you stand *right* now so you cant be disappointed
    Understand that one a hundred percent but, um, is that not trying to control the outcome?

    You *know* what your boundaries are and you know what you want

  464.  #464Dominique on September 13, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Tam – 370 – Rescue Remedy or Calms Forté. If I had to choose, the latter would be a more likely go to choice.

    They’re inexpensive, so try both.


  465.  #465Annie on September 13, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Ladies I really would like some advice on this which has just been said to me.

    In response to me saying I feel judged and attacked so feels pointless to me to engage on this topic any more with you.
    This person substitutes my words and then quotes me using their substitutions and accuses me of saying something I haven’t actually said.
    Last night they were wanting me to explain in length about something that they had misquoted and so changed the context and when I said it felt difficult for me to do this as my words were now out of context and i felt far to tired and drained they said they were irritated by my inadequate response.

    “I am judging your character on the basis that you very rarely elaborate on any points that you make on here. When asked to you often state that you “don’t feel the need to explain” yourself. The problem is that it’s not your need but OUR need to have you explain further. We need that in order to understand your point, and to give the reason “feel bored” or “feel tired” as to why you don’t want to engage in discussion can come across as very dismissive.
    It infuriates people when you are so dismissive of them. This may or may not bother you, I don’t know.”

    I feel really attacked and beaten up.
    Crikey how do I learn better how to tolerate this. I want this not to bother me I don’t want to feel attacked and beaten up. 🙁

  466.  #466ruth on September 13, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Be surprised?

  467.  #467Goddess Lily on September 13, 2012 at 9:18 am


    If you fully expect him to run when you set your boundaries…..let him. All of the analyzing doesn’t matter if he has one foot out the door and you already know it.

  468.  #468Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Thank you Ruth and Dominique.
    Ruth yes, spot on there…I am pushing away (controlling the outcome). But, perhaps I am trying to do what might be best for me.
    I feel worried that my boundaries might collapse.
    And I feel stuck, in that I have that feeling in my gut that the stepping up process required is so great that it’s a ‘no hope’. And he is moving on top of it all.
    I feel it might be wise to control the outcome before it starts to control me…if you see what I mean.
    I am totally panicking. I am a rabbit in headlights.
    I want to run. Even if I run in front of a car, anything to get away from him. This is not normal, I know, but two years of misunderstandings and pain and second and third chances have taken their toll on me.

  469.  #469MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Thank you sirens for your comments! I am about to shower and head out to buy a First Response test. Hopefully it’s not too soon to test.

  470.  #470Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:23 am

    467, Goddess, he runs for about 5 seconds and then he comes back.

  471.  #471Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:25 am

    466 Ruth, yes, he does surprise me but right now I just feel something gut wrenching in me…like a suspense…and it’s not an excited, nice feeling. It’s a feeling of dread and impending tears…

  472.  #472Daria on September 13, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Mmmm I just had a long nap. Thank you

  473.  #473Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 9:30 am


    465 – Who is this person or people? Employers? Family? All that matters as to how to respond. If it is no one you have to deal with, I would just end the relationship.

  474.  #474ruth on September 13, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Miss stix

    Reading your post makes me feel all fluttery and giddy

    (and i dont even LIKE babies)

  475.  #475Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Yeah, Miss Stix, I had a positive feeling also..I almost felt a bit envious of a pregnancy scare (sorry…)
    I’d secretly like one I guess..wow, and I thought I never wanted kids. Squeee!!

  476.  #476ruth on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Annie, that feels yucky to me too

    Is this person/people important to you?

    If not then no, you do not need to explain yourself further, especially if it will get taken out of context

    thats just looking after yourself, isnt it

  477.  #477Tam on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Bruce Springsteen says it all today:

    ‘Now look at me
    baby, struggling to do everything right

    And then it all falls apart
    when out go the lights.
    I’m just a lonely pilgrim
    I walk this world in wealth

    I wanna know if it’s you I don’t trust
    ‘Cause I damn sure don’t trust myself’

  478.  #478Daria on September 13, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Lamabutterfly – the reason I asked that is cuz It reminded me of similar situations I’ve been in where I just felt so much admiration for a man – actually guywho is one –

    Invariably it was when men were Not stepping up, and it created a vacuum space for me to feel this way putting him on a pedestal (even deserved of course)- no pressure on me.

    This looking back, at the time it felt … Practically heavenly and like a homecoming.

    Talking to this guy who was happy you talked to him – and that feeling of very comfortable … Also reminds me of something like that, the way I felt with Dman.

    It’s like my heart feels safe and it feels so lovely and comfortable.

    Well I feel sad and concern for you, cuz those DID NOT turn out to be good for me. 🙁

    Too sad cuz I was finally feeling at home and a relief of pressure. But it was just like Rori said, when it feels like comfortable and like instant attraction, it’s because it’s energetically similar to our relationships to past men and our dads, like a recreation of getting some love or from dad, which does feel oh so good 🙁

    I put myself repeatedly thru pain in those situations because of that insta-trust making it difficult to stick to boundaries since my heart felt so safe.

    I know i wouldn’t have pulled away from these instances at the time, but I did learn that indeed, it’s a WARNING SIGN, unfortunately, especially for those of us who had childhoods where we so crave our dads love and approval.

    I see that for you and I feel concern, and I’m sure through the experimenting you are doing, you will come to your own leanings … 🙂 Plus me and the sirens are here for you.

  479.  #479Annie on September 13, 2012 at 9:51 am

    No they are not important to me Ruth.
    I was wanting to take care of myself and rest and move away from something that felt bad.

    I don’t know what the lesson is.
    I feel unsure if it is to realize I dont want this in my life and to not go back on that forum. Or to learn how to get along with people and not antagonize them which I am obviously doing to this woman.

  480.  #480Annie on September 13, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Ty Ruth

  481.  #481Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Annie I can understand your feeling blamed because of how the feedback is worded. However, the really understand what is happening I think you could share some context with us.

  482.  #482Mel on September 13, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Miss Stix! I feel a little tingly-excited for you!

  483.  #483Daria on September 13, 2012 at 9:57 am

    I notice I haven’t really given a chance to ask for help here in regards to my romance. I don’t share sometimes when I start feeling invested, and I def don’t have an attitude of being open for advice. hmm.

    It may have been due to that belief I just shifted, that I had to do it all alone or else would be ‘lost at sea.’


    I wonder how I can shift this.

    I often pine for some free coaching or else EFT help and I actually have this forum here I haven’t been using.

    Sigh. Wow.

  484.  #484ruth on September 13, 2012 at 9:57 am

    I must admit Annie, I would probably walk away from the forum
    but yeah, thre might be a leson to be learned or healing to do I suppose

  485.  #485Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Hi. This blog feels like a safe nest to me. I come here when lil girl feels ascared. Like right now. My responsibilities are crushing in around me, and I feel huge stuck energy over some bill-related contacts I need to make. Lil girl is saying, “Please don’t yell at me!”

    I want so much to pay them. But I can’t. I want to curl up and block it all out, but I know that only makes it worse in the long term. I gotta fax a form to my last employer as proof to my loan company that I’m not employed anymore. Why can’t they just take a form from unemployment to prove that? Duh.

    Anyway, I gotta go out to a fax machine somewhere. I gotta fax or mail the form to the company that is my part to fill out, and then to call them and let them know the form has been handled. Why should that feel so difficult? But it does. It is taking more emotional energy than what I feel.

    I want to play and block it all out by talking about happy stuff. My desk is a mess — that’s part of the problem. First I have to find the form. My cats keep knocking my papers out of the letter trays and onto the floor.

    But I washed the dishes and played Change the Room to get them done. So at least the kitchen is cleaned up and the dining room table is cleared and wiped. Good girl, lil girl.

    Now we get to play Change the Papers and Make the Calls. NO!!! Don’t wanna do it! I want to snuggle with my puppies. I want to swim in the bay. I want to do fun things.

    But lil girl, if you lose your house and get in legal trouble with unpaid bills, that won’t feel fun, right?

    No, but I feel scared.

    Baby steps. First just organize your desk, k? Can you play change the papers?

    Ok. Thanks.

  486.  #486Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:01 am

    I am a Divine Goddess. Any man would jump off his boat into the wild unpredictable sea to swim to me and be with me on my Island forever and claim me as his only one.

  487.  #487Femininewoman on September 13, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Annie can you see though a validity in the point that the comments can be experienced as dismissive? Also it suggests to me that you might have made a point that you couldn’t defend when they asked followup questions so your instinct was to run or freeze. Which then translated into “I feel bored”. Don’t know if this makes sense but I would assume that they are making a valid point because it is their experience. It doesn’t mean that you are wrong.

  488.  #488Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:03 am

    I am Siren Angel, the guiding loving light and safe wonderful harbor.

  489.  #489Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Something incredible and unexpectednis about to happen to me and I will be jumping up and down in joy and calling everyone to let them know the good news and I will be writing on this blog to tell you all how it happened unexpectably and by total surprise. I will be taking pictures of my ring and changing my FB status to ‘engaged’ and living in total bliss and harmony.

  490.  #490bloom-ing on September 13, 2012 at 10:07 am

    siren angel, i feel awe-struck to read your goddess affirmations.

    i feel moved to imagine then, with compassion, how full of terror ! a man might be to feel that larger-than-life goddess “leaning toward” them…. LOL omg how scary, like trying to hold up the leaning tower lol – i would run for sure ! hahaha yum

  491.  #491Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:08 am

    I am the one.
    I am a Goddess.
    I am the supreme loving light in M’s life.
    I am engaged.
    I am married.
    I am loving my life.
    I am loved.
    I am love.

  492.  #492Daria on September 13, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Wow Lama I feel surprised to see some of those words ‘put on the pedestal’ abd also talking about your Dad. I hadn’t read those posts yet when I wrote … I see your experiences are triggering great healing for you ! That’s awesome! Yay I feel a bit relieved.

  493.  #493bloom-ing on September 13, 2012 at 10:09 am

    i love myself so much I just gave myself a big energetic hug & i’m running off for a little escape lol

  494.  #494Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:10 am

    Are you feeling jealous or envious?

  495.  #495Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 10:12 am


    483 – I love you (and lil girl doesn’t have to be strong ALL the time!) 😉

  496.  #496bloom-ing on September 13, 2012 at 10:13 am

    ok, baby girl, really slow now, i’m going to start to live your perfect life, moment by moment, i will practice choosing that oh MMMM i just felt excited buzzing & yayyyyy hoorayyyyyyy oh yay i love that & i do do do !

  497.  #497Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:13 am

    I am the one.
    I am the loving light M cannot resist.
    I am love.
    I am full and in bliss and so happy.

  498.  #498MissStix on September 13, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I have to force myself to leave the house. While in the shower my brain was trying to convince me not to go. Telling me “you are worked up over nothing. You are not pregnant. This will be a waste of time.”

    Truely…I am scared it won’t be a waste of time.

    Feeling a bit frozen right now. C’mon! Stand up, walk out the door…

  499.  #499Siren Angel on September 13, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Ohhh…. I can feel it. It is happening. M is with me in thoughts, body and soul and total love and compassion and we are connected as always and forever.

  500.  #500Radlove on September 13, 2012 at 10:16 am


    479 – If your words are being twisted, then it is not YOU antogonizing them. I go back to this over and over that I learned from Rori:

    If it feels good, keep doing it.

    If it feels bad, stop doing it.

  501.  #501Daria on September 13, 2012 at 10:17 am

    (((Mel))). Acupuncture can be really powerful for this, especially with a good acupuncturist (female might be better in most cases). I think of it like artists, some are really good for me, some not as much.

    There’s def ways to see like what their yelp says if they have one, or just trying out.

    Dominique is excellent with herbs for balancing hormones.

    String cramps like that might be not enough absorbed calcium, nettle herb infusions (tea brewed overnight rather than a few min) is one herb that would bring that in. Also comfrey would soften tissues.

    Red clover infusions will definitely help for menatrual issues.

    I’d look up on those and also ask Dominique. I like that you have a way to relieve the pain for you (the BCP) even if it’s something to use till something better shows up.

  502.  #502bloom-ing on September 13, 2012 at 10:17 am

    siren angel,

    ah, um, i feel frozen in the top of my chest…. words, “but i” ummm

    no… not “envious” or “jealous”….. looking down at my shoes & thinkin about lunch…….. ummmm

    “& also” ……. just a little basket to carry my words earlier, was just imagining, not thinking specifically about “Siren Angel” in the “leaning” – just imagining a human-sized man trying to hold up a 3-ton bronze goddess as it topples forward. just the image, like it, scary, “powerful” mmm love it ! & it shows me how to be “careful” with myself….. yum feeling light & smile-y : ) thank you

  503.  #503ruth on September 13, 2012 at 10:18 am

    You can do it Radlove

    The putting stuff off resonates with me a LOT
    I am the queen of procrastination

  504.  #504Tam on September 13, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Siren Angel….those are positive affirmations?

  505.  #505Tam on September 13, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Ladies and gentlemen, I announce that through your kind help and spewing out my guts all over this blog today, I have resisted throwing out the manbaby with my bathwater. Yet another day.
    Yes, I can!!
    I wrote the ‘no friends’ speech and I never sent it.

    I shall not try and control the outcome until I have seen the baby with my own eyes and observed a little. Or maybe I might change my mind, not sure.
    But today, no.

    Maybe a mistake but even if I did it now, he’d be back on my case in two weeks, so if I want to do it I would better do it a day before leaving or so. It would give me some time to adjust and meet some CD’s before he gets on my case again. because he is – persistent.
    Persistent yet stubbornly uncommittal.

  506.  #506ruth on September 13, 2012 at 10:25 am


    thank fck for that

    I fel relieved!