What Part Of “Housework” Is “Feminine”?

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The Gatekeeper croppedHere’s a great letter from Sara about what constitutes “femininity” – is it in the “eye of the beholder…”?:

The Question:

“Hi Rori and everyone, I would love to hear from you Rori on this, I have got all your programs and think you are great.

I am in a relationship with a man, and have been for 4 years. We moved in 6 months ago. We spent a lot of time getting to know each other before moving in. My intention is not to get married, but to have a long term happy relationship if I can.

I have been previously divorced. My questions is around this:

Both my ex-husband and my current partner say that I don’t have feminine qualities, such as constantly cleaning up, and taking care of the kitchen, etc. I have grown up the exact same way that I am living now, which means that I put comfort first.

My house is not dirty, but there may be things like books, fruit, etc on the living room table. My current partner says that he doesn’t feel ‘motivated’ as a man, when I don’t take care of the house as much as he wants.

I do realize I have a fault here, but my mum was the same, my sister is the same, and it doesn’t come naturally to me to change the furniture/living space every few days as my partner wants.

This is growing to be a big problem now, and I feel very insecure. I have tried to change, but is it possible I just don’t have feminine qualities?

I look very feminine and my attitude is very feminine, but I don’t know how to be more feminine in this way. It’s more that juts the act of cleaning, it must be something in my attitude that needs changing.

Any ideas or suggestions? How else can I motivate a man? Sara”

My Answer:

Sara – whoa – what an amazing question!

Briefly – cleaning the house has nothing to do with being FEMININE, or having feminine qualities!!!

It has to do with chores, and who’s best able to do those things.

Sit down and even out the chores and responsibilities – who takes out the garbage, who brings in the money and pays for stuff, who has time where, who lies to cook, who likes to clean up…

Then – HIRE A HOUSEKEEPER for the cleaning.

If you are “slobby” like I instinctively am, or your house is a mess and over-cluttered – this is YOUR responsibility to FIX!!!!! (I commit myself to investing time and thought into my environment every day – or I will automatically be oblivious to everything and walk over piles of anything…)

This is just about becoming a good partner and taking care of YOUR end of things.

Keeping the bedroom sexy and sweet and feminine IS a part of your job! Do THAT!

The kitchen – not so much.

Though, if the way to your man’s heart is his stomach – then either learn how to do what will make him happy, or write him off and get a man who doesn’t care about food.

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Magnolia on September 15, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    I truly relate with this issue. I am rather naturally oblivious to my surroundings as well and my husband is the neat clean Organised person in the house. Over a course of some 26 months of our marriage I have had to consciously pull up my socks and be more aware of putting away the cups and plates from my room to the kitchen and other similar things that come instinctively to many women but feel like chores to me. The good thing has been that I noticed that while I became better at noticing such things( because it would upset my husband).He has increasingly become more relaxed and even tolerant of my imperfect ways and often will pick up my slack ( although it disgruntles him sometimes). On the whole I think we have just balanced it out. !!:) I clean up extra if I am expecting guests.

  2.  #2Magnolia on September 15, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    Also I used to and sometimes still have similar feelings of not being feminine given that I’m not such a good housekeeper while all the women in my family are so great at it, including my mother and mother in law from whom I invite a lot of judgement around this. However, a neat house is good for both of us and it feels good to me too once it’s done. . I try to be aware of how I feel when I clean house. I do it till it makes me feel good or at least ok. No one can judge me for it and I will never do it because I’m feeling the pressure of judgement. There is always something great we can all do that makes us feel good too. Plus, for many women a clean and pretty house is a creative outlet. It’s just not one for me.

  3.  #3Andrea on September 15, 2014 at 11:53 pm

    That’s funny… sometimes I feel very expressively clay like and murky bog like femininity when I let my own personal mess pile up around me and I stew in it until, left alone in my own personal cave, I muck about until I’m ready for a new shift… and then, awakening, I celebrate by cleaning everything spotless and shiny and open up the shades and the sun flows into my spare, spotless, refreshing but cozy apartment. It makes me feel feminine, grown up.. (as in, I don’t have mommy and daddy telling me when to I’m “supposed” to clean) independent and capable.

    I don’t believe that “most women” have an instinct for regular and habitual cleanliness. I believe that People in general get into a rhythm that is comfortable for them and they mainly stick with it.

    I would ask myself… Why did I invite a man into my life who doesn’t fit my rhythm? Do I still have guilt issues about my cleaning habits? Am I still needing an outside force to beat me up about it?

    I like the article Rori wrote about letting a man come into your house, feel comfortable in YOUR space, find himself in YOUR home, YOUR life…. instead of me.. doing what is “required” to keep him happy… whether it’s housework or other things… If I’m “doing” something to keep him from being annoyed… that’s very masculine.

    I wonder if this might be a different truth: When I feel the need to clean up after myself in order to keep my man from being annoyed, I’m actually still very uncomfortable and unsafe in my own space. I’m actually projecting onto him my own unwillingness to simply love my rhythms, love my messes, love my cleanliness, love my bruises and pains and imperfections, as well as my spotlessness, freshness, and beauty.

    Being feminine for me is BEING comfortable, cozy, happy in my messes and in my tidyness.

    Somewhere I remember a quote from Rori in which she says to act as though everything you do is Goddess-y.

    “Oh I feel like being lazy about housework today.” And then let him DO what ever he wants to do about that.
    That’s feminine.
    “Oh I just feel so much energy and passion today. I feel like cleaning and scrubbing.”
    And let him join in or not. It’s not about him. How do I feel? How I feel is feminine. What I (or anyone else) does about it, that’s masculine.

    I just so love my femininity.

  4.  #4Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 1:00 am

    A while ago, I decided I would never have another fight with a man about housework. Ever. This was a few years ago. When I was married we did nothing but fight about housework, responsibilities and chores.

    I just made a decision a few years that I would never do that again. Life is SO much bigger than these things. In terms of housework and chores, I will do whatever I feel like doing, whatever I feel inspired to do. I will not push myself to do anything I do not feel inspired to do, nor will I resist doing anything that I do feel like doing. For me, there are no “shoulds”. I will let him do whatever he feels moved and inspired to do. For the rest, I will hire a housekeeper/gardener.

    I happen to love to cook, so this is no great hardship for me. Where D is concerned, he will always help me in some way – whether it be buying the groceries or getting the drinks or paying for everything or watching the meat, or whatever it is. But I let that be his decision. Sometimes, I love to clean and find it therapeutic. But I will never be with a man who makes me feel badly or obligated about this kind of thing. For me, I do what I do in terms of housework out of joy and love, and that is how I want to keep it.

  5.  #5Victoria on September 16, 2014 at 1:31 am

    There are many things a woman needs to do in order to feel her best.
    Like, take great care of her body, be healthy, eat well, exercise.
    Maintain good, close relationships with positive people, who support her and encourage her, and stay away from negative and draining people.
    Last but not least, a woman needs to have a nice home, where she feels surrounded by harmony.
    The latter is the only thing you can in fact delegate to someone else to provide for you (by hiring domestic help) and I believe you are better off delegating it, so you could have more time for the first two.
    Personally, I never met a man who wants to take care of the household chores. Men are brought up to belive that this is not a manly thing to do, so they think it is feminine, by default. I tried to argue with this for a while, but it did not work out well, so eventually I gave in. Nowadays, I try to maintain my home to the standards of a five star hotel, and everyone is happy, including our maid.

  6.  #6Millie on September 16, 2014 at 3:11 am

    Andrea I love how you write, I’ll never tire of saying that!
    I love how you describe your femininity as expressively clay like!

    It’s too hot where I live, to sleep. So I find myself here expressing my thoughts, my murky feelings. I feel really scared that something is seriously wrong with me, something not in my control. I’m seeing that all the feelings I felt around Mechanic aren’t about HIM at all!!!!! They are totally 100% about me, because I experience those same feelings in so many other situations. It feels like a light bulb went on. Ding! It’s relieving in a way, but also terrifying! I used to go dancing all the time alone and feel beautiful and confident and not care if I was asked to dance or not. But lately, since I’ve been taking lessons in a new style, the teacher encourages me to come out dancing to events of this style. I can’t tell him, but it terrifies me!! I hate feeling like I don’t know the steps. A wave of heat passes over my body and my throat clenches and I can’t hear the music anymore or feel my feet. So I avoid going sometimes, which I know is wrong, I should face my fears and I’ll only get better with practice. Easy for him to say, he’s not the one with his body on fire. The other part of this is, when I first met him, he said some inappropriate creep stuff. I talked to him about it and ever since then he goes out of his way to make me comfortable. We flirt a lot in our lessons and I actually REALLY like it. I feel attracted to him now, even though I didn’t at first. But now..because I put up that boundary at the beginning, it feels like this weird dance where the flirting is intense but then we act like it’s nothing, it has a cautious air to it. He isn’t pursuing me otherwise, but he is very supportive, it surprises me how much so. But here comes all my murky feelings about feeling less than, that I’ve screwed everything up with my insecurity, by allowing him to see and hear about my insecurity. I’ve been more open with this guy than a lot of people probably. But I’m worried that has made me unattractive. He compliments me so much, but my heart sinks when I just take it as it is, a compliment. I want it to mean more than “I’m noticing every inch of your body because you’re hot.” I’m scared that that’s all it means…Anyway, I realized tonight how anxious and insecure I felt, and triggered by him wanting to help me, and at the same time longing for more of a connection with him and feeling unable to connect. Only able to close up tightly. I feel so triggered by the slightest rejection. Him not looking for me to say goodbye…and such. These feelings come up out of nowhere, I can’t control them. I don’t want to be an insecure little deer in the headlights, and I know there is a confident woman inside because I’ve seen her in action. I’m scared that I can’t fix this on my own, that I will always feel this trigger with men and by social settings. I can’t sleep because it makes me feel twisted and sick inside.
    Sorry i’m always posting depressing comments. I feel like the Eyeore of the group.

  7.  #7Labbit on September 16, 2014 at 5:01 am

    TenderCD and I broke up. It was a horrible and yet also wonderful conversation. He can’t give what I need right now and I respect that. The hardest part was when he said he didn’t want to lose me and asked if we could be friends for a little while until things got better for him…and having to tell him no. We both broke down. But I got the gift of closure and I am ever so thankful for that…for not having to wonder where he is or what he’s doing anymore. We left the door open just a crack…I shared that if he felt ready to do a serious relationship with me than he should reach out. Otherwise it was best to part ways and not speak anymore.

    I feel pretty good though very sad. This one hurts. It hurts less than old breakups because there are men chomping at the bit to meet me, and I know I’ll be OK instead of feeling hopeless like I have in the past. It feels painful to lose someone I felt so connected to over what feels like timing…I suppose in the end the reason doesn’t really matter. I did so much healing through Tender and I feel grateful for that. I have been crying and crying and crying. It sucks to lose someone.

  8.  #8Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 5:16 am


  9.  #9Tatia on September 16, 2014 at 6:13 am

    Hi Rori.

    I love your answer! You turned to focus off the man and back onto me. I feel so much more than how the house looks. Love it!


  10.  #10Tatia on September 16, 2014 at 6:21 am

    ((((Labbit)))) You are experiencing a loss right now. You are in a great place as far as being in touch with your feelings and that is wonderful. Have you considered that tendercd has shifted in your rotation? That another man can now step up to you? I love that you understand that he can’t meet your needs, that’s great. Just to minimize the loss aspect, why not consider that he has shifted in your rotation to a further position, like someone you at grocery store . . . So it’s not so much a feeling of loss.
    what do you think?



  11.  #11Tatia on September 16, 2014 at 6:22 am

    *someone you see at the grocery store

  12.  #12Lucy on September 16, 2014 at 6:24 am


    I broke up with TechieCD for the same reason.

    You didn’t lose anything — you gained. He obviously cared a great deal, and loved you as much as he was able. Your spirit will grow from that love, and you will attract bigger and better things.

    You are going to feel better real shortly — I know I do. You will get back that part of you that was repressed and it will feel very good. You will be more creative, and trust me, there will be plenty of great men to flirt with, to compliment your femininity — and the good news is, you don’t have to feel guilty about flirting anymore!

    Re: clean houses. I am a person who has to have a clean house to function. It’s not overly clean, but I get my kids’ stuff off the floor, vacuum, clean kitchen floor. The kids help, and we do a little every day.

  13.  #13Femininewoman on September 16, 2014 at 7:17 am

    Millie believe it or not I like Eyeore.

  14.  #14Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 7:56 am

    Latest round: B has moved some of his stuff today. But then send he was staying til Sunday NOT the Friday before like I said. NO NO NO NO that is not happening. So I went to the Police who were shockingly appallingly bad and said it was a civil case not a criminal case even though I told them he was threatening and intimidating and bullying and I was scared of him and basically told me to call them if he pushes me again – SHOCKINGLY BAD. So I went to the Citizens Advice they said the police were wrong and it’s a harassment case and printed off the law for me to take back to the police. I am having the locks changed on Friday and my Dad and Brother for back up and I’m going to log it all with the police beforehand so that if anything happens there is a record. THIS MAN IS GONE.

    I feel distraught that it came to this. Pointless mess.

    Anyway it is what it is – he’s OUT and I don’t ever want to see him or speak to him again. He doesn’t want me to hate him but he’s brought it ALL on himself.

  15.  #15Kath on September 16, 2014 at 7:57 am

    My now x partner once noticed that I’d cleaned the shower which hadn’t been done for sometime and his comment was “I was wondering when you were going to do that!”. So I made a point of cleaning anything from then on!- It was just another one of those little put downs that added up to the big break up in which of course he put it all onto me and it being my fault!- I am sad to lose the feeling for love for someone but relieved to be free to express myself in any way I choose!- how wonderful! xx

  16.  #16Kath on September 16, 2014 at 7:59 am

    I meant to say of NOT cleaning anything- oops!

  17.  #17Millie on September 16, 2014 at 8:12 am

    Haha Femininewoman, thank you!

  18.  #18Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:15 am

    I like EEyore too Millie 🙂 and I am also just like EEyore (but with the intensity of tigger 🙂

  19.  #19Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 8:19 am

    Kim #699
    From last thread
    I totally agree!!! I’ve experienced this also…
    In fact just this weekend… BK (whom I broke up with in Jan) ran into a friend of mine and said to her (knowing exactly who she is) “How do I know you?”
    To get her to tell me she saw me… sooooo lame…
    noncommital… which was what he was our entire relationship…
    of course this stirred up feelings and I realized I needed to visualize ‘untangling myself” from him…
    thank Goodness I have NO desire to EVER speak to him again…. YAY ME… NO CRUMBS!!!

    KIm So Well Put!!!
    “Classical unavailable man dance. in my experience it is so common! In fact, none of the non-committal unavailable men I ever dated ever disappeared, some still contact me now on the ‘off chance’ I might provide them with company, texts, sex or whatever it is that makes THEM feel good about themselves.
    No thanx.
    My part is in ignoring them and spent energy on those who come forward me making actual dates and indicating by words and actions that they want me.”

  20.  #20Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:20 am


  21.  #21Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:21 am

    Thank you FW and Veronica from last thread. It feels like strength having such warm, support here xxx

  22.  #22Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 8:23 am

    (((Sophie))) #14
    Wow!!!!! Wow!!!!! Wow!!!!! Wow!!!!!
    I am SOOO PROUD of YOU!!!
    STANDING UP FOR YOU!!! Asking for help from your Dad and Brother!!!

    You ARE MY HERO!!! Yay!!!

  23.  #23Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 8:26 am

    Sweet, AMAzing Siren!!!
    I am sooo sorry you and Tender have broken up…
    But YOU have taken Such Great care of YOU!!!
    NOT accepting crumbs!!
    I am sending soft, warm, loving arms to surround you
    and give you peace and strength

  24.  #24Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:28 am

    I have never thought (or felt) housework to be feminine. I find it messy and it takes exertion and it breaks my nails ha ha. I do what I need to do but I am not very domesticated. Making sexy spaces I can do, cooking yummy meals I can do – but mostly when I choose to, when I feel sexy or yummy.

    This was an immediate issue with B (surprise surprise). He had the attitude that the woman does all the cooking and cleaning and my mouth dropped. I haven’t come from a family that was like that, and neither have my past experiences with men nor my friends men been like that. It has always been my experience that chores are shared and negotiated. We ended up with complete segregation – he did his shopping, cooking cleaning, I did mine. He wouldn’t even wash a cup if it was mine. NOW I know that this is definitely worth knowing about before co-habiting! And a bottom line of mine.

    I had another boyfriend years ago who was nice and he found my laxidasical attitude to mess endearing. I do not live in squalor but I’m a bit rubbish at doing things like putting the lids back on things. I’d breeze through making a mess and he’d breeze through clearing it up and both of us were quite happy in our automatic modes.moving through our space together.

  25.  #25Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 8:43 am

    clean houses,,,,
    Mmmmmm…. i struggle with this…
    My Mom, sisters and I all are not good at seeing the piles of books, mail, cutter as they stack up around us (not hoarding) and clean frantically when company comes over… which I then feel sooo good having a clean house for awhile…
    I want to like cleaning…. I am always trying to trick myself into being a cleaner person… or trying to love myself into having a cleaner house…
    when I have enough $$$ I always hire cleaning help!!!
    Now that works really Well!!

  26.  #26Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:44 am

    I was just reading all the comments, Indigo, Magnolia, Andrea, Victoria and feeling appreciative of all the input and ideas. It struck me inbetween something Magnolia said and something Andrea said I’m not a housekeeper, I’m a homemaker and my home comes with all my feminine energy, mess and all – however, it’s never so messy it doesn’t feel comfortable and relaxed and inviting because it’s alll about how it feels to me and if it feels good.

  27.  #27Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 8:46 am

    Thank you for the support Azure Blu – even I have limits! And I’ve reached them now. Shouldve done it months ago – siiigghhhhh

  28.  #28Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 9:27 am


    BRAVA to you!!! I feel like high fiving you through cyber space!

    It is so wonderful when we can engage this strong, lioness-like energy in service of ourselves, of our needs, of what is good for us.

    YAY!!!! You

  29.  #29prplpsn28 on September 16, 2014 at 9:28 am


  30.  #30Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 9:30 am


    I like Eyore too. I’ve always admired the fact he has the courage to just “feel” his sadness even though everyone around him might be jolly.

    It is a huge relief to me when someone is congruent with their emotions and just feels whatever they are feeling. Don’t judge yourself or your feelings as wrong or out of place in any way. In my opinion, what is real is what is most beautiful.

  31.  #31Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 9:34 am

    Wow Sophie, this feels so bad:

    ” We ended up with complete segregation – he did his shopping, cooking cleaning, I did mine. He wouldn’t even wash a cup if it was mine.”

    It speaks to me of a person with a closed, ungenerous heart, someone all pinched up and stingy… SUCH a turn-off to me.

  32.  #32Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Thank you Indigo – I like the high five – it lifted me a bit.

    I feel destroyed. I’m really not physically well and I feel really wired and I just want to rest but for this endless battle with him. He’s out right now and I really don’t want him to come back 🙁 I feel really really hating of him for this right now, I really do and it was just such an inevitable conclusion cos I just kept hoping he would be or behave in a way that was reasonable and he demonstrated time and time and time again he just wasn’t going to. I feel very confused by people 🙁

  33.  #33Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 9:41 am

    31 – yes Indigo – that has been B for at least the last 9 months – ugh ugh ugh

  34.  #34Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 9:46 am

    ((((Sophie)))) #32
    It’s almost over!!! YOU Are sooo bRave

  35.  #35Violette on September 16, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Kim your comment on the last thread that Azure posted on, is so clever. I love the way you worded it. So wise and clear, lest we should fall into believing me who shouldn’t be believed and all that.

    Weirdly I feel so funny today. Last night AD took me to dinner, and on the recommendation of another guest he let the chef serve what he wanted. When the bill came he actually showed it to me it was so high. It was $1000!!

    AD was really cool about it, and he’s not poor but still. He was actually sweet, saying I deserved it, and it was a phenomenal meal. But I have to admit it’s a little hard for me to accept something so extravagant, (even if he hadn’t meant it to be)and I feel so uncomfortable today!

    Later in the evening he asked me again if I’m seeing anyone else. So I had another chance at my no girlfriend speech. I felt better about this one. But his reply was the same, that he didn’t want to get hurt if I’m out there dating a bunch of guys and he might go date other people if I am. I didn’t want to tell him, I’m not seeing anyone else, but I don’t want to start feeling like I’m in his control, we’ve only been seeing each other a month. He keeps saying he’s in love with me and is looking for a soul mate. And he’s actually been great about waiting for sex. I’m the one chomping at the bit now!

    I feel lost. I feel like he hates me. I feel like I messed it up. I don’t know what I’m doing. Maybe I should just be exclusive with him already. What’s the big deal? It might be nice, and I can still do what I’m trying to do now, flirt with and get to know new men. In fact it might feel fun, safe, to get to know men as a woman who’s spoken for. Not so vulnerable and available. I’ve been available for so long.

  36.  #36Violette on September 16, 2014 at 10:15 am

    The other thing is I feel crazy overwhelmed in my work life. It’s not going well, I don’t have the money to give myself the things I need, like dance class, spa days, even buying myself a coffee is strained. I need space, a break. I haven’t had a day off in months. This isn’t me. This isn’t a lifestyle I respect. I don’t know how to take a break when I’m so desperate for money though!

    Meanwhile my main career, the one I used to support myself with and want to again, is languishing unattended and I feel so guilty. So ashamed.

    I have started loosing my hair on the back of my head. I am horrified. It is stress related. How do I get off this treadmill of stress and shame?

  37.  #37Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Viollet #35
    I understand your dilemma about being exclusive…

    For years I have dated several men at a time (even before Rori) one at a time…
    I struggle with committement… so for the past year…
    when i have dated a man for a month or so and I
    like him… And he asks for exclusivity…
    I go for it… sharing my dream of being in a forever relationship… and living with or marriage…

    This has been very GOOD practice for me…
    pushing MY intimacy issues and the feelings, fear and anxiety that comes up for me…

    I actually have found out MORE about the men (and ME) being exclusive…
    been able to practice my feeling messages more…

    and have been able to realize fairly quickly
    that they are NOT for me (still looking for Mr. Right)

    2 weeks ago Spirit and I decided to be exclusive..
    He too is wanting a forever relationship and
    we will see it just might be US!!! :->

  38.  #38Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 11:00 am

    Viollet #36
    hugggsss… I feel very worried about the level of
    Stress YOU have right now…
    Loosing hair like that is very concerning to me…

    Is there someone you can lean on… talk to about this…
    It is IMPORTANT to have friend and family support (and Siren Island) as you get through this time in your life…

    Someone shared this on Siren Island a few months ago…
    I have found it very helpful – Wealth Chakra meditations. 0x0x0


  39.  #39Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 11:04 am


    What I have realized is that there is no one size fits all – so much depends on what you want, and where you are in your life. Don’t beat yourself up about what you said to AD or how you said it. I doubt that if he is buying you hugely expensive dinners that he hates you.

    You could look at this all as experimentation. If you’re uncertain, take it slow. If you don’t feel ready to be exclusive yet, see how it feels to continue dating other guys for a while. Tell him you don’t feel ready to cut off your options just yet, that you’d like more time to get to know him. Just don’t give in to exclusivity out of fear of what you “should” be doing – do it if it’s what you really, truly want.

  40.  #40Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Indigo #39
    You always have such a wonderful way of saying things… sooo thoughtful and warm
    Thank you for YOU!!!

  41.  #41Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 11:19 am

    I have decided to stop dating around for the moment – by this I don’t mean I have decided to stop Circular Dating. I fully plan to be out and about in the world, going to plays and art galleries, being open to the world and everything in it that could give me pleasure. I have just decided to stop pursuing romantic relationships with different men for the moment. It feels like a bit of a lie, and has for a while. I can do the tools, and I can do them well – I am usually very good at being in feminine mode and the men I date treat me extremely well. But when it comes to someone who really means something to me suddenly it all becomes very real, I’m suddenly aware of what is really going on with me, and that this is not play-play any more.

    It feels as if a deeper, more authentic part of me is calling for me to pay attention to other parts of myself – I have felt for a while that I have been using dating as a way to distract myself from the more important, more real and pressing things that are calling for my care and attention. It’s fine if the dates are just fun, just a way to meet new people and go out and have a good time, but it’s where the man wants to take it to the next level that things hit a speed bump. I don’t want to give myself on this level to men who are not deeply, truly right for me. I feel as if I want to get sufficiently right with myself first before I can be ready for something which could go somewhere – spend time with me, investing energy in my interests and passions. Feel the aloneness, and tolerate the anxiety which comes up (despite the things I say on here I can still experience tremendous anxiety from time to time which can leave me quite at sea). Figure out what I want to do career-wise and get some stability on that front – both financially and emotionally. Overall reduce the stress and anxiety in my life and increase the stability. I want to be able to consciously invest in the right relationship, and I just don’t feel ready to do that yet. I only feel capable of “having fun” as it were. Does anyone relate? I feel like a lone voice calling out in the wilderness 🙂

  42.  #42IamHis on September 16, 2014 at 11:20 am

    Such a triggering issue for me. I would feel so angry being with a man like this! I would lose all femininity and tell him to F off. Actually, I probably wouldn’t have the guts. I’d probably just clam up and break up with him later. I feel safer when things are messy. If things are messy, everyone is too busy and happy to care. My Mom used to clean to deal with her rage. If the house was immaculate, I’ll would feel terrified. I feel good with laid back guys who don’t care about that stuff. It feels good to feel like “the neat one.”

  43.  #43Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 11:21 am

    Awww Azure Blu 🙂 you make me blush

  44.  #44IamHis on September 16, 2014 at 11:23 am

    (((((Azure Blue))))) – that’s for your sweet reply on the last post. I wish I had a Mom like you, but a comforting blog buddy feels pretty good too!

  45.  #45IamHis on September 16, 2014 at 11:34 am

    I looked this up because I felt confused about it, but every time I go to the gym and work out, especially my arms and shoulders, I feel tremendously sad afterwards. I tend to go to the gym to deal with heartache. My high school sweetie (who I never actually dated, but we still cared about each other) was a huge gym rat. We used to work out together and he made me feel so good about my body, as weak and imperfect as it has always been. I’ve injured myself quite a bit growing up, one particular injury went unchecked for years and caused me tremendous pain. I also tend to injure myself during times of emotional closeness and/or separation & I think my muscles carry many painful memories. It’s like, I feel like sobbing after workouts and it feels so embarrassing because it feels like hardly anyone understands. Also brings up feelings of worthlessness because my body was never skinny enough to suit my mother, and she would always tell me how men would never want me, seemed like no matter how skinny I got…

  46.  #46Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 11:39 am

    IamHis #42
    I LOVE this…
    ” I feel safer when things are messy. If things are messy, everyone is too busy and happy to care.”

  47.  #47Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 11:41 am

    IamHis #44
    Sweetness… I feel very happy being Your comforting blog buddy!!!

  48.  #48Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 11:45 am

    (((Indigo #41)))
    This sounds like your having an exclusive relationship with YOU!!!
    “Feel the aloneness, and tolerate the anxiety which comes up (despite the things I say on here I can still experience tremendous anxiety from time to time which can leave me quite at sea). ”

    This is actually Why I do Exclusivity with cds…
    To sit with MY issues… instead of ignoring my feelings by going on a date with another cd…
    It has worked REALLY well for me

    If this is none of my business don’t answer…
    Did you have to break it off with BM because he was in love with you?

  49.  #49Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Azure Blu,

    I have not specifically broken things off with him yet – I have been distancing myself though because I’ve felt overwhelmed. I’m thinking of telling him that I just want to be friends.

  50.  #50Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    41 – Indigo – I completely relate (although that may not be so surprising considering!). But I too, want time to really ground myself in my own happiness and healing before I venture into anything too intense for a long while. MY circumstances are totally different I know but I need to find a place where I’m not looking for a man to fix me in anyway and there’s not a man that can do that for me, I need to do that for myself. I’m already looking for men to fix me right now. I have youngCD being very attentive and waiting in the sidelines and it FEELS so good as it’s not this intense, heavy energy I’ve been shouldering. It’s fun. And I may go there. But I know I’m really vulnerable. And I wouldn’t, maybe, under other circumstances. But..I shall see. I shall see how I feel at the time. NOTHING heavy.

  51.  #51Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    I am doing capitals like you Azure Blu! It’s contagious! xx

  52.  #52Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Indigo #49
    Thank you for sharing… kiss!

  53.  #53Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    ;~> Caps are MY friends…

  54.  #54Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    and now they are YOUR friends!!! :-))

  55.  #55Sophie on September 16, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    ha ha Azure Blu – I need to learn to be less suggestible ha ha but they are very nice friends 🙂

  56.  #56prplpsn28 on September 16, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    Really not a good day today. My heart is hurting. 🙁

  57.  #57L on September 16, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    This doesn’t have to do with this thread, but I just need help. My husband and I have been married for 13 years, and I just found out about his recent year-long affair. He said it has ended, and the other woman, who did not know about me, also has assured me it has ended. He said that he was trying to find a way to end it without hurting her and that he wanted it to end. He said he did it because he just felt good being with someone who did not judge him. We have had a lot of problems over the years, and both of us have issues, me with controlling and him with being secretive. To my knowledge, and his reassurance, this was his only affair. He said he wants to be with me and has now committed to fidelity and honesty. But I am OBSESSING over it. I interrogate him about it every day, and it’s been about a month now since I found out. He said he’s still committed to me but that this is the same type of behavior that pushed him away in the first place, only that now I’m worse. I have extremely low self esteem and don’t know what to do. Every time he steps out the door, even to go to work, I panic. I panic upon going to bed and upon waking up. We can’t afford therapy, but we’re reading a book together called Conscious Loving: The Journey to Co-Commitment by a husband/wife team Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks. When we first started dating, it was amazing. We were both carefree and open and loving with each other. I’m terrified. We have four beautiful children. I want to trust him, but I’m terrified he’s untrustworthy. I want to be the woman of his dreams. We want to stay together, but right now I just want to move far away with him and our kids, get rid of our cell phones and isolate ourselves from society. I truly honestly feel that would make me happy because then I could trust him more.

  58.  #58Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Hi sirens,

    I’ve been catching up on the thread & I’m so glad I have a place to come & chat and just learn & grow…

    So, I just feel a load on my mind lately… I felt when I split up from D I would be blissfully happy but it is soooo hard. He keeps on with the emotional manipulation… He’s sending me cards, trying to arrange to meet me, phoning me, emailing me, texting me, I feel so drained..

    And worse still I am blaming myself.

    Today wehad a bit of a tiff over email and I felt sooo angry & frustrated.

    I think I feel angry because of my feelings for him. They are intoxicating me. I feel responsible for him being “upset” & I have an urge to “make it better”. It is over whelming and I feel scared that I can’t stop myself!!

    I want to yell at him “leave me alone” but at the same time i don’t want him to leave me alone.. Boy, I feel triggered and confused…

    Well, enough moaning already!

    I am going to take care of me… I have just been on holiday and had a lovely, relaxing time…

    Hopefully something will give at some point.. At the moment I so sad…


    I relate how you feel yet at the same time i feel so much hope hope you. Stay strong – i think good things will happen for you…

  59.  #59Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Great post!!

    It triggered me because I remember how D asked me to “treat him to a meal” etc… O felt quite shocked at being asked this by a man!!

    Ahhh, some men! My relationship with D has shown me how naive I was. I just couldn’t believe it!

    Eewh why can’t I meet someone normal??!

    Lol, I was looking up adults / boyfriends with Aspergers this evening… I think D has it… So did my last boyfriend. Then I felt a help : support forum.. It felt such a relief to find out I was not alone in loving an Aspie man. But there must be something wrong with me to get so attached to an Aspie man??


  60.  #60Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    Ooh I just wrote a post about D having Aspergers & its disappeared….

  61.  #61Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    I’m pretty sure D has Aspergers. Lol, why do I constantly become involved with men like this?!

    It also explains why I struggle with Rori’s tools..

    I’ve been on an Aspie forum tonight to support girlfriends, wives etc… Some women had been in their situation for years & this terrified me!!! Yet, I can also imagine it happening…

    What is wrong with me?! Why Am I powerless to get out…!

  62.  #62prplpsn28 on September 16, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    Thanks Waterfall. Our situations seem very similar so I can relate to how you feel as well. It has really helped me alot to come here to the blog. We will all stay strong together.

  63.  #63Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    My posts keep disappearing tonight!

    Anyway, I found a support blog online for Girlfriends & wives of AS sufferers. It was eye opening! All of these women (young & old) sounded like me!

    I can’t tell you what sweet music that was to my ears!!

    I have never felt like I have been accepted or fitted in here and now I know why, there is probably emotionally something wrong with me too!!

    All these women were going on about how awful their husbands were. Listing the same traits as me and I sat there open mouthed as I read their stories. It could have been me!!!

    In so many ways they looked like doormats but I could understand where they were coming from!! We are so complex as human beings…

  64.  #64Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    @ Prplpsn28

    Yes!! Hugs to you my friend! I already see you getting stronger… You are rocking it !!

  65.  #65Waterfall on September 16, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    The reason I come to this blog is it reminds me to love & care for me! Which I don’t naturally do… I want to care for D all the time. I want to reach out…

    What is weird is he says the same about me. He is always worried about me & just wants to care for me…

    Coming on here reminds me it is not about him, it is about me. Let him take care of himself…

    How am I doing? Am I happy? What do I want/need to make me happy?!

    D sent me a video today about counselling for couples. I felt weird about him sending me that. It was basically stressing the basic needs of relationship are trust and bonding, being there for eacb other etc… Well he was NOT there for me! That is why i split up from him!!! He just kept going off & doing his own thing… Too weird…

  66.  #66April Rose on September 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm


    It sounds to me as if your body is needing something – perhaps an important vitamin or mineral is deficient in your system?
    I say that because I have been feeling so low, and also breathless after small amounts of exertion. Doctor did a blood test and found very low iron levels.

  67.  #67Kim on September 16, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Hm. That’s interesting Azure and Indigo. I wasn’t always a big friend of CDing at all, as you probably know…and I resisted it a lot at points because going for all these dates with people I had seemingly not much in common with or wasn’t ‘feeling’ it for, kind of exhausted and depressed me a bit.
    Although actually being exclusive with a man too soon or cutting myself off feom other options seemed fine for a little while, until I noticed myself feeling a bit bored and with zero hope of finding someone, not working with people…or in the case of trying to be exclusive with one man I did actually start wanting too much of his attention too soon, or feelong a little needy and wishing for more…so in that respect, staying open to other men has actually helped me to have an exclusive relationship with me.
    By having a choice and putting myself first…I also usually feel a bit off when I get closer to any man, meaning I can always feel issues creeping up that might be needing to be worked on.
    Even sexual exclusivity…well, if one is truky circukar dating, even that becomes difficult and a little questionable. On occasion I have wondered why I should ‘give it up’ for anyone who is not fully committed to me, and give up all other men even when I am unsure as to who is my forever man.
    Now, I am very hesitant to cut myself off all other options, when a long term vision has not been spelled out and I found it has helped me stay so much more cool, calm and collected with a man. Any man.
    I really don’t see any negatives anymore….and I dread getting stuck on a man again who might poof or not want the same things as me, before he has actually declared that he wants the same type of relationship and shown actions (consistently) too, for me that means at least 6 months of dating and a common future on the table / marriage at least talked about.
    That feels right to me…and when I am in the cool, calm and collected frame, I have not found myself thinking even once ‘why is he not texting me, calling me, making dates or whatever. It feels so freeing.
    That, to me, feels like putting myself first.

  68.  #68Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Kim… I see your point…
    I do understand that cding does keep me cool, calm and collected also…

    BUT my difficulty, and what I need most practice with,
    is asking for what I want when I am liking someone…
    managing my anxiety… and staying emotionally available…
    so for me Exclusivity (when it is the right time) has been VERY helpful for MY growth

  69.  #69Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    wrap your loving, warm arms around YOU
    and tell yourself ALLLL the wonderful things about YOU!!!

  70.  #70Jewels on September 16, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    Hi all.
    To my understanding Cd is about exploring whom you are and practising the tools in front of others including men. If a man shows up and is offering what you want in a relationship and when you are with him you are happy and secure only then do you become exclusive.
    By practising the tools until they become a part of who you are, you will then continue to be the best self and still be able to lean back and let him row the boat.

  71.  #71Kim on September 16, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    65 Agree with you Azure Blu on the *managing anxiety when with someone*…that’s one of my weak points too…definitely, and you are right that one has to be with someone for some time in order for these things to come up.
    I guess I don’t see what exclusivity has to do with it, for me those issues come up in every relationship, even with friends when they are very close friends….so I guess my view (now) is that we can actually practice the ‘being open and vulnerable’ with anyone….and exclusivity is not needed for that.
    Same with boundaries.
    I would have totally agreed with you at some point but for me, being exclusive too soon actually adds to the issues I am putting myself through, rather than helping me…to me, I feel safe to be exclusive when things feel safer and established and the man made it ckear I am his one and only not just next weekend but that he sees me in his future and takes concrete steps…I guess. i have become mercenary about this lol.
    I put it down to almost 8 years if dating experience where the only regretI ever had was being exclusive with one man too soon…before we made it even through the ‘mask off’ stage…you know?
    It turned out to cause more heart each and time wasting than was really worth it….but I also understand ‘givingthings a go’ and everybody is different.
    I just like to take my time…and not get stuck/anxious too soon…before i know a man sees me as his one and only.

  72.  #72Kim on September 16, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    Not just ‘one’ man in 8 years..quite a few lol

  73.  #73Kim on September 16, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    Even Rori says if we want to, we can go ‘all out’ with one man, right?
    I guess it just never served me to do that when in the early stages of dating and maybe even not so much later on..I had plenty of multi year relationships that never led to marriage and where marriage was not even brought up.
    In hindsight, I had fun and it was ok but it did feel that men, once they ‘have you’ are not compelled to make much effort anymore. generally speaking, they tend to apply minimum effort for maximum benefit…and I don’t even blame them, but it’s not what I want..another 3-5 year monogamous relationship that doesn’t progress..

  74.  #74Indigo on September 16, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    Kim and Azure Blu,

    Your different experiences just convince me of my point that there is no one size fits all. It is all a healing journey, and these men bring up different things to be healed in us.

    We all have different issues and different lessons, and different things may be right for us at different points along our journey. I just feel I am at a point where important things other than my serious romantic relationship are calling for my attention – such as, I have an exciting career prospect in the pipeline, which I think will make me much happier than my current job.

    Something you said Azure Blu, about being in an exclusive relationship with me, brought up a thought for me – if I don’t want to be alone with me, who else will? I really do want to take myself off to art galleries and plays and really explore what my worth means.

    Thank you!! xx

  75.  #75prplpsn28 on September 16, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Thanks Azure 🙂

  76.  #76Linda on September 16, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Yeah!!! Sophie!!!!…. Rooooaaarrrrr!!! I knew you could do it. Hoooraaayyyy

  77.  #77Lee O'Keefe on September 16, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    How do you start to employ these techniques, successfully, when you’ve agreed on a break (might be more his idea) and you’re going to have a conversation, soon, to discuss the ‘future’? Thanks!

  78.  #78Linda on September 16, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    Indigo I get it. I relate. I truly do not have any emotional energy to invest into anyone by me right now.

    I would like to achieve a complete and utter feeling of wellness in myself. Not have any feeling of neediness or looking for or hoping for any man to fill anything in me. The goal would be for a man to “enhance” me and I to do the same for him. This feels on target to me and right.

  79.  #79Oshun on September 16, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    I have been on in a while. MIA focusing on building a happier Oshun. I had an epiphany that I’m not as happy in life as I’d like to be so I am putting all of my energy toward that.

    I know CDING isn’t necessarily about dating but about just being out there and receiving energy from men or yourself… I guess my issue is that I have people reaching out that I am not interested in in the least! Do I CD anyway just to keep that energy flowing toward me or write ’em off and keep going? I guess I could decide on my own. Would feel nice to get some thoughts.

  80.  #80Oshun on September 16, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    I haven’t been on in a while*

  81.  #81Liquid Light on September 16, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    Hi Violette, I think you should do it. He’s obviously crazy about you (1K on dinner, are you kidding me? wow!!!!) and the tension its creating for you in the dynamic is not helping you. You are under stress because of work etc. and so why put yourself under more stress with him (keeping him at bay and playing by “the rules”). Sometimes you just have to trust your gut and go for what feels good and seems to me, it would alleviate a big area of stress for you and if you feel like it and you like him, I say go for it. Let’s face it, he hasn’t asked you to marry him so its not really a commitment and if you change your mind later you are entitled to do it. Believe me, most men would not bat an eye if they aren’t feeling like they are committed anymore, they will drop you in an instant and not look back. I feel that a man is committed in his heart, and that’s the most important thing to him. If he’s not feeling it then he’s not feeling it and it won’t matter to him how much he says he’s committed – boyfriend/girlfriend, exclusive whatever. If he changes him mind then that’s it. We are entitled to do this too. So if I were you I wouldn’t worry about the commitment so much, and you can always flirt with men you meet out and about and it wouldn’t even count as a date. Just my 2 cents.

  82.  #82Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    Actually all 3 of the guys who I have been exclusive with in the past 8 months… had the ME forever on the table…
    After 4 months with one… 3 months with the other…
    I saw quite clearly they were NOT for me…
    They both have come back BUT I know what I want and they didn’t fit in…
    Now Spirit … may be what I am looking for!!!

  83.  #83Azure Blu on September 16, 2014 at 9:57 pm

    Oshun #74…
    Huggggggs darling Siren!!!

    How wonderful, warm, sensitive girl…
    That YOU are realizing maybe
    You CAN take time to be with YOU!!
    LOVE YOU!!! take those lovely
    Warm, LOVING arms and wrap them
    around YOU!!!
    and DIG deep and feel!!!’
    FEEEllllll… what are YOU feeling…

    I have found ME in sitting still
    AND CDing…

  84.  #84Millie on September 17, 2014 at 12:07 am

    Indigo 30: “What is real is most beautiful.”
    Thank you for that, it makes me feel at peace.

    ((Sophie)) I haven’t read all your posts, but your in my thoughts and heart!

    This guy asked me out over instant messenger, a friend of a friend, whom I’ve never met. I told him, thank you and that he seems like a nice guy, but “I don’t feel inspired to date right now.” I told him the truth and it felt good to be picky, and good to just say exactly how I feel.

    I am my own worst enemy. How do I become friends with myself? I need to support me more…
    I wish a knew a good way to get out of that tight feeling when I’m around others. That choked up feeling that disables me and asks me to run out the door. Especially in non-threatening moments. I wish someone just understood how I felt when I said it, instead of glazing over it. Making me feel alone in my own reality. I wish I could let go of everything, just everything and be blissfully happy in every moment. I wish I could take the past back.

  85.  #85Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 12:36 am

    Oshun, Linda, Sophie

    It feels good to know I am in good company 🙂 x

    I feel good. I had an email last night from the guy who has the company where I want to start my new career field, and I feel very excited. He says he can’t take me on right at this moment, but is keen to offer me a position in the near future, which actually would work out for the best if it is only early next year, as I get a long Christmas holiday with the current organisation I am with…

    I also feel encouraged by some progress and insights I have made about my anxiety over the last few days. It’s been a bit tough but I’m starting to feel better and I feel glad with what I’ve discovered. Most anxiety I feel is due to being highly sensitive, and also to my possessing a high quantity of P (Perceiving) on the Myers-Briggs scale. This is something for me to love and embrace and slowly, gently work on even more…

  86.  #86Veronica on September 17, 2014 at 1:07 am

    From the previous thread:

    Azure Blu – 687 – Having a tool to help me with the fear and the NVs has definitely opened up the intimacy. I tried some of it yesterday when I was with Funny – the fears weren’t as prominent and intrusive as before, after a while I forgot about them and our time together was so connecting. I do want to know how to open up myself to intimacy – especially with a man who wants to be with me.

    Are you still feeling anxious about you and Spirit?
    680 – We were texting like that (on and off) on Saturday. So far it’s not excessive – not a running conversation over text, more like small intimate thoughts shared with each other and I like that. I get the sense that he wants my presence with him in some way. Why do you say that you’re not very good at it? What is your discomfort with texting?

    Funny is warm, caring and romantic – I love how he called when I mentioned how I was missing him.

    Millie – 704 – Is there any chance of re-defining things according to you? I mean, the teacher has defined this experience as wanting you to have a good time. What do you want? My sister also recently started learning a new dance and she turned it into her own passion – looking online for videos that inspire her or that enhances her appreciation of the dance, she goes to dance socials so that her teacher isn’t the only one teaching her – she gets to understand what’s happening with her and the dance she is learning.

    Teresa – 705 – Are you able to talk to your father when you visit him in the hospital?

  87.  #87Jessie1000 on September 17, 2014 at 1:08 am

    I feel another old system way that men got women to do alot of work for them

    I dont mind doing housework but I do it for me

    I dont feel interested in doing things to “keep” my man…he will stay not because I worked hard but because he feels like he wants to

    I work now at being myself despite whoever Im dating

    I work for my pleasure

    I feel happy when I go to the gym

    I dont feel happy when I clean the whole house in some kind of old school effort to make the lord of the castle happy…lol

    I feel happy when I eat cheesecake

    I feel happy when I go to the movies with my son

    I feel happy when I go shopping and get orange julius

    I feel happy when I walk my puppy

    I feel good when I go to the liquor store and buy a bottle of wine for later and share it with my roommates

    I feel good when I walk around the frogpond with my puppy close to my house

    I feel good after I brush my teeth

    I feel sad when I have to work for someone else to like me…thats how I grew up and it wasnt pleasant

    I feel good when I find my own happiness and criticism rolls off my back like water off a ducks back

    I feel good when I feed the ducks

    I feel good when I sit at 5am and read rori raye and sleep on the couch and watch crappy old movies

    I feel good when I read all of your comments…go girls xoxo

  88.  #88Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 1:33 am


    I love your list of what makes you happy!

    Just recently I have been waking up early to spend time with me – 5 am is a great time. Before the world is up and everything is quiet.

  89.  #89Veronica on September 17, 2014 at 1:36 am

    Sophie – 14 – You are amazing!! Awesome! I couldn’t believe all this beautiful caring strength you have for yourself just pitched up – now you have proof of how amazing you are! If anything happens in your future you have this moment to inspire yourself. I know I feel inspired.

  90.  #90Veronica on September 17, 2014 at 1:39 am

    Indigo – I am thrilled to hear that an opportunity is opening up for you xx

  91.  #91Natalina on September 17, 2014 at 3:55 am

    Happy Wednesday Sirens!

    Jesse1000 that was an amazing list, thank you for sharing!

    And I also wanted to underline what you said “I feel sad when I have to work for other people to like me…”

    And yet how many if us can relate to doing all kinds of stuff that DOESN’T make us happy for that exact reason.

    And it really comes back down to the basics- what kind of relationship do you want to have.

    What kind of roll/responsibilities do you want to take care of in the relationship…

    And what trade offs would feel good when it comes to splitting the to-dos?

    Before I got into Rori’s system I thought I would have to be a master of the iron, bake homemade bread … And champion of the world with my domestic skills. Today happily married for over three years, none of those skills have ever been a deal breaker- they are just skills.

    Your choice whether you want to make it a deal breaker in the relationship.


  92.  #92Natalina on September 17, 2014 at 4:06 am

    Happy Wednesday Sirens,

    Jesse1000 I love your “makes me happy” list

    And can totally relate to how it feels to working hard to get someone to like you, even just to notice you.

    And while that way of being- working so hard used to be a normal for me, THAT same thing is now a super huge turn off.

    When it comes to domestic or any other type of skill for that matter- that is still all it is, a skill.

    Masculinity is all about the doing-ness of things. Even if it is sewing or baking or what has been considered feminine.

    Many people have forgotten the lost art of femininity. Or in simplistic terms: receiving. (Nothing about house work in that)

    If having and utilizing those skills is something that makes it or breaks it for your guy- I would definitely think twice before diving in.

    There are tons of ways to split up the chore list, do you feel like you want to/should be doing more in the relationship- if so that’s an entirely other conversation.

    Love to you all!

  93.  #93Kim on September 17, 2014 at 5:03 am

    77 Azure, I totally relate. One of the guys I dates exclusively in the last 4 years definitely had ‘forever’ and ‘marriage’ on the table, but he wasn’t for me either, which is why in the end it did feel like I ‘wasted’ 6 months of my time dating someone exclusively…he was a good guy but at my age, I guess, it is a little about time, because I could still have kids.
    Being exclusive with people that might or might not be for me, especially of they have not expressed that i am possibly their forever person, just doesn’t work for me at this stage.
    And I feel happier about that…but yeah, hasn’t always been that way.
    I was definitely a serial monogamist.
    With or without a future on the table.
    I would like to change that and my personal way is to give many men a chance and may the best one for me win 🙂
    Actually it also respnated what Indigo says about concentrating on me and my career amd everything else. I have totally stepped that part up and it leaves very little time for friends, men etc.
    I do think though, that all those things belong into a balanced life, i e if I have a good social life and relationship and sex life, I feel so mich happier and have so much energy for my career too…I really disagree that all these things are mutually exclusive.
    I also disagree with the notion that we have to be perfect to meet our one and only, and Dominique said a lot about that.
    They are not perfect eiher and resting in omeself and feeling self love and decreasing anxiety can also be fostered by dating and staying open to receiving all great things from one man or many, whatever suits us.
    So, I really like to develop my personality on all levels and since I am naturally an introvert and like to hibernate with myself, I am sure that I already concentrate enough (too much?) on me me me. Lol.

  94.  #94Kim on September 17, 2014 at 5:10 am

    Changing the topic. MoM wants to be friends on fb, after knowing me for over a year. Lol.
    I don’t know how that feels…like I would be censored..plus do I want to know what he is doing on fb? Dunno.
    I’ll sit with it for a bit

  95.  #95Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 6:16 am


    For what it’s worth, I think Facebook is dodgy at the best of times.

    I have a personal rule that I like to live by when it comes to Facebook and relationships – if I can handle literally ANYTHING I might see, then I say go for it and be friends. If I’m going to be triggered in bad-feeling ways, or if I’m not going to be able to resist the urge to snoop, I rather steer clear.

    Facebook really doesn’t mean anything anyway. People give it far too much credit.

  96.  #96Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 6:19 am


    Thank you so much 🙂 I have had another email from the guy and he said hopefully we can arrange something sooner rather than later.

    I feel thrilled.


  97.  #97Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 8:28 am

    When things are intense like this I wish I had therapy every single day cos it’s the only way I know of really being able to separate out whats mine from everybody elses.

    I feel crazy today. B says that I am crazy. He reframes everything so I start wondering if I actually AM crazy. If I have created everything through my own warped perceptions. But even thinking that is crazy isn’t it?! I go back to how I feel, don’t I? And I sure don’t feel good and haven’t for a long, long time and I want him to go and there is absolutely nothing crazy about that. No, phew, back on solid ground.

    I feel tense. He is moving out his things. The atmosphere feels dense, painful and sorrowful but also fraught with anger. He has genuinely asked me to give him a key once I have changed the locks 🙁 He says I have blown the whole thing out of proportion. He says I changed the day from Friday to Monday. He says he wants to be able to get in to get his sofa with the key. He says he will disconnect the internet if I don’t give him a key. Then he says he would like a moving out dinner so that it doesn’t end badly but…not before Friday, so he wants to be let back in. I literally want to lie down on the floor and go to sleep for ever.

    He is not having a key. I managed to write an article I had a deadline for today though I felt like I was going to have a panic attack. I am just managing to hold it together, just. The stress feels like the weight of G force against my chest and my back muscles are being pressed into something hard and jaggy.

    Indigo – that feels good to hear about the job, so lovely when everything flows together

    Thank you Veronica and Linda and Millie – getting there 🙂

  98.  #98Kim on September 17, 2014 at 8:29 am

    89 Indigo, totally and utterly agree…..hmm

  99.  #99Millie on September 17, 2014 at 8:44 am

    Veronica, yes actually I do dance outside of the teacher and watch dancing videos. Right now I’ve been working long hours so it makes it hard to go dancing during the week. Confidence had not been an issue. But regarding this one particular night the teacher wants me to go, I feel pressured and anxious and intimidated. The dancers are out of my league and it’s daunting, not fun as he keeps trying it to be.

  100.  #100Oshun on September 17, 2014 at 8:50 am


    I went through that with my ex. We lived together and I moved out. He wanted to help me move so I let him. That turned into a year of telling him he can’t stop by my apartment or job unannounced. He wanted another chance but I learned it wasn’t because he loved me. It was because he didn’t want to be painted as the monster he was. He wanted to attempt to prove to me and himself that it wasn’t him that caused the problems. I saw right through his whining, faux crying, and passing messages through family and shut all of that down.

    You are not crazy. Never allow anybody to make you think you’re crazy for how you feel or how you handle your situations. Sometimes guys say that to make us second guess our feelings. It’s dismissive. Your feelings are valid. If you feel it’s best to end the relationship you are not crazy for it. If one day you want to revisit it for whatever reason, you are not crazy for it.

    Sending lots of positive vibes your way. I’ve been there and you will be stronger and wiser because of it.

  101.  #101Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Millie – do you want to go? Or do you feel like you ‘should’ want to go but actually don’t want to go? I think it helped my confidence when I just gave myself a break and only did things I really wanted to do. Began to live life by my rules and what did or did not feel good to me in the moment (which was always changing). One night I may feel too anxious to do something and so I don’t. I love on myself instead. At another time I may feel I have the emotional strength to face my fears so I do.

  102.  #102Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Thank you Oshun. It helps to have reinforcement. I have had it before. They start telling you you’re crazy often enough it’s really hard to not start questioning yourself. That’s why I need to write it down, take it back to basics, like you and I have just done. Our feelings are not crazy they are our feelings. I identify with what you say also about them not wanting to take ownership for their stuff. I see that with B. It is so boundaryless – the projection onto me and the crazy accusations ‘getting inside my head’. It feels so chaotic and merged, I get confused over what is mine and what is his. All I want is for him to gently take himself away but in whatever which way he insists on getting in there. I feel exhausted but it is exhausting – someone constantly bashing down your boundaries. Thank you for your story. It really does help.

  103.  #103Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Ohhhh… Sophie…
    Can you call your Dad and Brother if you need to?

    Yes… You are doing sooo good!! NO YOU ARE NOT CRAZY!!!

  104.  #104Oshun on September 17, 2014 at 9:22 am

    No problem, Sophie.

    And he can get his couch when it’s convenient for the both of you. He doesn’t need a key. He’d never give it back! He would pop up when he feels or even worse when youre not home. My ex threatened to turn off the electricity if i didnt do something he wanted. I went to work and had it transferred into my name and placed a password on it so he could not do anything but use the electricity. Let him turn off the internet. That holds no power. He just wants some kind of attachment to continue to mess with your life because he feels he can. He doesn’t want to treat you how you should be treated. He just wants his energy in your life to cause choas. Smh people like that grind my gears!!!

    You are a powerful goddess for taking the steps necessary to ensure your peace. You definitely have my support in this time of your life. I know how frustrating this can be.

  105.  #105Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Thanks Oshun – I know, I won’t give him a key. I’m only changing them so he can’t get in ha ha I cant believe he even asked me! I can get internet elsewhere so it’s not the end of the world. You are exactly right everything you say. It helps to hear it (sometimes over and over again). Thank you for your support. I feel burdensome on here needing it so much right now. I feel appreciative.

    Thank you Azure Blu. I need to hear it. They are in another city but I’ll ask them to come on Friday.

  106.  #106Femininewoman on September 17, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Men can be champs at drawing things out. Sophie you give him a key and he will convince you that he has to come back for the couch and he will take his sweet time to do that. Is what I would tell myself if I really wanted him out of my life. He would not be getting a key. It would be the key that prolongs your misery. It will be the key that allows him to continue to get you to think that you are crazy. That reinforcement that you don’t need.

    You have this moment to get it right girl. Stand up for yourself. You are doing great so far 🙂

  107.  #107Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 9:36 am

    You’ve probably seen my comment above FW – I’m changing the locks on Friday so he can’t get in – there’s no way he’s having a key from the lock I’ve changed to keep him out. Ha ha the whole thing is ridiculous! Thank you for the praise 🙂 and the support xxx

  108.  #108Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Oshun #94 & 98
    This is such good insights… I agree with all you are saying…
    BK (imaginary relationship) copied my house key (without me knowing) and would come in when I was at work…
    He would also get in my car in the middle of the night and leave evidence that someone had been in…
    I changed the locks before we broke up and didn’t tell him… I noticed he looked at the new locks closely…
    For the last Year we dated He NEVER wanted to show any signs that he really liked me But would stalk me like that… What a wierdo!!!
    When I broke up with him I told him I would call the cops if I found out he had been into my house or car…
    He’s left me alone since then.

  109.  #109Femininewoman on September 17, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Also Sophie as he packs there is no need to stay in the house with the energy of the anger. Even if it is to go outside in the yard.

  110.  #110Femininewoman on September 17, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Feeling burdensom????

    Girl get rid of that thought 🙂 Girlfriends support each other

  111.  #111Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Azure Blu – OMG!

    FW – yes you are so right, I don’t need to be in the house. I took myself out earlier – and I have been wandering into the garden a lot without really being conscious of it – I was probably drifting towards the energy of space. 🙂 Thank you I will try to receive support and not feel burdensome 🙂

  112.  #112Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 9:51 am


    I agree with Feminine Woman – we are all here for you, and it is our pleasure to be!

    I feel so excited for when you will have this man out of your house! 🙂

  113.  #113Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Thank you Indigo. It feels good to know that.

    Do you know, I feel excited too. Seeing his stuff kind of sometimes triggers slight fear or pain but then I get small glimmers of the elation I’m going to feel when its actually gone and not there anymore. Like breathing! Like dancing around the house! Likethe biggest deepest sigh of relief!

    I’m having a party on Saturday night!!!! A makeshift one I agreed to yesterday and my friends (ex colleagues) are jumping on it and it seems I might have a house full of loving energy. I’ve had phone calls from people who are bringing the stereo, the cds, the cups and glasses. Yay! I shall celebrate 🙂

  114.  #114MovingMagic on September 17, 2014 at 10:04 am

    I recall breaking things off with a man about 8 years ago and him calling because he wanted to get the items of his that had piled up in my apartment over the course of 6 months. I also felt strongly that it was his way of seeing me and possibly trying to make his way back into my life.
    The relationship was over in my eyes. I simply told him I would place it in the hallway on said date and gave him a time frame 6:00-8:00pm (example).
    I felt so strong in that boundary.
    He didn’t show up…I got to keep some great films due to it. 😉

  115.  #115Labbit on September 17, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Thank you Indigo, Tatia, Lucy, Sophie and Azure Blu for your kind words and thoughts. 🙂 I felt very sad for much of yesterday.

    Weirdly though, today I feel really good! I don’t even know…it’s just that I believe that are too many good things happening in my life right now to be concerned about this. If TenderCD and I are meant to be, we’re going to cross paths again. If we’re not that’s totally fine too. I feel a wonderful connection to him and I’m thankful for all the healing he’s helped me with…but I am firmly on my Bridge and I know what I want. And I’m going to keep moving towards what I want.

    Yesterday for instance…I reached out to a man who’d asked me out on several dates, but I’d said no because I felt better waiting out things with Tender. When I contacted this man yesterday he’d just had a date cancel on him so he asked me instead! I got treated to a delicious, fantastic dinner at a restaurant I’d been dying to try with a very handsome man who took care of everything and made me feel great. If that’s not synchronicity I don’t know what is.

    I feel confident things are moving in the right direction for me. I believe my forever man is closer than ever.

  116.  #116Kath on September 17, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Sophie I am going through the same thing-only I am the one moving out. He told me I was crazy, “brought it all on myself” “crushed” him etc etc never ever took responsibility for anything. The last straw for me was the fact that when we started having problems he was busy getting in contact with his X. When I sussed it, he didn’t say anything, then tried to say that it was her contacting him, then tried to say that the last time she’d called him was to tell him she was getting engaged to someone else. The clincher was that his phone stopped working so I lent him a spare one of mine and I checked it (yes I know!) but on the first day he had it he didn’t have her number in his phone book because it wasn’t in the sim card. On the second day it was locked in his phone book under a man’s name!!!!!!!!!!- I was so angry when I saw that and when he was accusing me again of everything being my fault I, at first, managed to calmy tell him that a year ago when there had been other issues with the X I had listened to Rori and asked him to reduce contact, be careful with it and shared with him my feelings of wanting it to be just us- there was already the x-wife, three children and three grandchildren to share time with and I wanted us to have a chance. He ignored that request and when I discovered later that she was still getting in contact and he was declaring that her number was in his phone “so I can ignore it” I started being more vigilant. My gut feelings look like they were right and so I ended it-he has now not spoken to me for two days and although it is tense-I am thankful for the peace!

  117.  #117Oshun on September 17, 2014 at 10:17 am

    So…I decided to go ahead and CD with the guys I’m not interested in. Practice makes perfect, right? One asked when I was available this week and we agreed on Monday of next week. We’ll see how that goes.

    Sophie, you having a party is a great idea! I want you dancing on tables! Lol JK but have an awesome time.

  118.  #118Oshun on September 17, 2014 at 10:17 am

    So…I decided to go ahead and CD with the guys I’m not interested in. Practice makes perfect, right? One asked when I was available this week and we agreed on Monday of next week. We’ll see how that goes.

    Sophie, you having a party is a great idea! I want you dancing on tables! Lol JK but have an awesome time.

  119.  #119Natalina on September 17, 2014 at 10:22 am

    Hey Millie —

    I totally get how that feels. There were several dance “classes” every week at the university I attended and I always felt like such a goober. Though how wonderful it was to be held and dance, that part I loved

    And- there is so much you can USE from this experience. The more uncomfortable it feels, the better.

    Seriously, use the tools, communicate from those feelings and you will end up knocking them all dead with desire (huge claim, but true through and through)

    This is a fantastic opportunity to love yourself solid (strengthen those core love muscles for yourself) and let them in, let yourself in.

    You are fantastic for even trying.


  120.  #120Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Moving Magic – hooray for the boundary! Strong on the inside 🙂 It made me laugh about the CD’s 🙂

    Labbit- that sounds wonderful and good feeling. TenderCD may be rightly named TenderCD as it sounds like the ‘moving apart’ happened tenderly too. I appreciate tender partings (even though sad) the good memories and feeling for each other is not spoiled by animosity. And as you say there is space to see what will be in the future.

    (((kath))) there is nothing that feels fun or loving in the drama and fights is there? The peace feels so beautiful, so re-energising, so needed. Have you found somewhere to go? Are you feeling okay?

    Oshun – yay that feels good to hear! I shall look forward to hearing about your date 🙂 There probably will be dancing on the table tbh ha ha My friends are lovely for letting their hair down (without being a pain ha ha)

  121.  #121Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Ohhh… you are sounding better…
    I feel happy to hear you had a date with a nice man & a yummy dinner!!
    A warm distraction from the emotions of letting Tender go…

  122.  #122Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 10:43 am

    A party on Sat.!! It sounds like you have some great friends!

  123.  #123Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 11:08 am


    I love this:

    “I feel confident things are moving in the right direction for me. I believe my forever man is closer than ever.”

    I feel the same way.

  124.  #124Andrea on September 17, 2014 at 11:21 am

    I feel so sick. Flu, cold, run over by bus.
    I put a call into my manager at work and am waiting for him to call me back so I can tell him I won’t be able to make it.
    I feel uncertainty and nervous. I feel I am a bad person and a bad employee if I don’t make my shift. I feel coughing and weak and headache. I feel I’m wrong for not predicting this and getting someone to switch shifts with me.
    I tell myself a negative story that my manager is cold and mean and will be angry with me and force me to come into work.

    I know I have the power to tell myself a different story.
    My manager is a man I actually really like and respect. He’s a fixer. He can fix this!

    Me: “I feel so awful. I feel weak and sick and I don’t know how to get my shift covered. I feel so tired and worn out and I feel guilty that I haven’t found someone else to cover for me. Can you help me?”

    I wonder what he will say.

  125.  #125Sophie on September 17, 2014 at 11:43 am

    (((Andrea))) hugs to you not feeling well. I know exactly how that feels when you have to call in sick. I always feel very anxious and guilty. I try to honour my right to be unwell! i love the script to your boss. I would love to hear how that goes.

    Yes Azure Blu – I have wonderful friends. That is one area of my life that I couldn’t be more grateful for.

  126.  #126Andrea on September 17, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Now I’m sitting here in happy sobs. I feel my shift in attitude and scripting out a feeling message to my manager helped. (but also, I forget that he is human as well and has empathy)

    He just told me.. “I’m sorry you’re not feeling well. I am going to get someone to work your shift. Just rest and feel better.”

    What a relief!! I feel happy that I have these tools. I feel happy that even being physically sick is an exercise to use the tools and to allow myself to feel my feelings, honor my feelings, and start from that place of vulnerability.

  127.  #127Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    I really liked your script… sooo warm and vulnerable…

    i’m sooo glad you have a good boss and he responded soo kindly to your authenticity!!!

    Get well Soon Darling…. I’m sending healing vibes to YOU!!

  128.  #128Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    Oshun #112
    Practice, Practice… Lovely Siren!!

  129.  #129Dominique on September 17, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Andrea – Wow, you’ve become so amazingly adept at scripting your messages. YAY you!!!

    I’m so sorry you’re not feeling well though. Sending you feel better thoughts and love.


  130.  #130Andrea on September 17, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Sophie, I feel such pride in you, funny I know, but I feel I’ve been right there with you on the edge of my seat supporting you.

    I’m starting to compare my toxic relationships to an addiction. I’m starting to wonder if there isn’t a twelve step program to release ourselves from inviting these relationships into our lives in the first place.

    I had a horrible fight with Baby Daddy last night that lasted all night and is probably why I’m sick this morning. It was all by phone and text as he is out of town on a job.

    But we keep going round in circles. He calls at least twice a day to, as he says, check up on things because he cares. He wants to know where I am, what I’m doing, where the daughters are. Typical father stuff, typical relationship stuff… except he and I aren’t in a relationship. And he says, “I love you honey.” As he is hanging up.

    Last night he called again, “Honey, you really are seeming distant and like you don’t like me to call you. You seem like you’d rather be doing anything else than talking to me on the phone.”

    Me: “I am SICK. I am physically sick and I don’t feel like talking to anybody, much less continuing to answer your texts and be available to you on the phone when ever you want to call.”

    He: “Okay, I get it. I’m really sorry. heh heh.. I’ll stop calling so much.”

    And then twenty minutes later I get a barrage of text messages about how horrible I am, what a drunk, what a partier, probably sleeping with other men, disrespecting our daughters, how he’s not going to stand in the way of me and other men, what a bad mom I am…etc etc…

    I now regret it, but I fired back at him. God, I was livid. How DARE he! I’ve been taking care of our daughters and me for fifteen years with out him. And all the sudden…. ugh…

    The texting and rage went on and on. Until I finally blocked his phone from my iphone and finally went to sleep.

    My anger this morning is not at him. It’s at me. Why did I invite him back into our lives? What was I trying to prove??? or do?? or hope to accomplish?? What is this experience trying to teach me?
    I don’t feel hurt by him because I feel now that his opinion means so little to me at this point. I don’t feel afraid of him because I have way too much support in this town. I don’t feel he’s violent. He’s just not getting what he wants from me so he’s lashing out.

    A part of me wanted to go back to the beginning, back to my first love… him…. and kind of re-visit my younger self. I kind of wanted to start over and make things right. Not between He and I, but between Me and I. I was blinded by infatuation and a deep fear of lonliness when I first met him.

    I also felt I was not allowed to tell a man no. I put a man’s needs above my own habitually. I put him and his needs above mine. I ended up pregnant twice before I realized I really don’t want to be with this man.

    Why did I write to him and ask him to come visit us at this juncture? A part of me feels … or starting to feel…. something like…. vindicated. I let him hurt me so many times in my past. Now he’s here in my face and I refuse to let him hurt me again. (could that be it?)

    One good thing about having him here is that his presence has quickly, very quickly, allowed me to see what I don’t want in a life partner. That has caused me to clean out my “little black book” as well. If I can say no to the father of my children, I’m not going to settle for other crappers that I’m just not interested in.

    Maybe this experience with BD is teaching (slowly) how to stand up for my boundaries, how to say “NO”, how to feel empowered in the presence of a man. How to start from a place of my authentic self, my feelings, and how to act from that place.

    I wanted to fight last night. There were no winners. But I just wanted an outlet to express this deep rage I have with in me that fathers abandon their children…. fathers can procreate and leave and not look back….
    I never realized before how angry I am about that. My little girl threw a huge temper tantrum last night.

  131.  #131Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Lovely, Sirens…
    I found this today…
    I think it’s from Rori

    “Acknowledge that something crappy happened.

    Yes, it totally sucks when a formerly good friend
    stops returning our calls and texts.
    And, it can be life-altering when we are let go from a job, despite receiving positive feedback on our performance review.

    It’s important not to pretend.
    Sometimes we rush past the feelings that are present
    in an attempt to appear uncaring (unhurt, really),
    or like we have it handled.
    Getting back on the horse is great and all,
    but let’s first acknowledge that it hurt when we were knocked off!
    Having feelings doesn’t make us less able to handle tough stuff,
    or to come up with great solutions.
    It just means we’re human.

    Identify all the feelings you do have.

    If the situation is minor, it may be one or two feelings.
    For more intense events, it can take a while to pinpoint
    all of them.

    This is essential, because identification
    and recognition go hand-in-hand.
    In doing this, we’re accepting that we are
    feeling these emotions.
    This sort of self-acknowledgment is crucial.

    By the way, we’re the only ones who get to decide what is major,
    or minor, for us.
    We’re all unique, and we’ve all had different experiences that have helped mold
    who we are.
    Something that is minor for one
    may be major for another, and vice versa.
    That’s okay.
    The point is not to compare the experience we are having
    to how others would react;
    self-process and then move forward.”

  132.  #132Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Love Your insight into your little girl and her tantrum…
    Sweet, darling little girl needs hugs and loving arms!!!

  133.  #133Azure Blu on September 17, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Amazing Goddess
    You asked him to come visit because you realized your daughters need to know their Dad…
    My opinon…
    He may not be a good bf/husband… but they need to see and feel his love and enjoy a relationship with their dad for themselves…
    You Did a GOOD thing…

  134.  #134Andrea on September 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Yes Azure… thank you for the reminder. I see my journey with men as rocky and fraught with tension, in part because my dad abandoned us and I never got to know him until I was 35.

    I keep… not wanting my beautiful innocent lovely daughters to go through the same thing as me. I see them developing relationships and I feel squeezed inside with the need to protect them, control the situations, and to hide all of my mistakes from them.

    I just thought if they were allowed to get to know themselves in the presence of their father, if they were allowed to find a better understanding about men, if they could be spared years of mistakes….

    I feel I need to back a couple notches down, stop overfunctioning (once more) and allow them to develop a relationship with their dad for who he really is. I keep trying to shield them from his… (assholery) and I keep trying to (make him do right)…

    His latest is that he’s now heading back to Alaska, far away from us, and texting the daughters that he doesn’t feel welcome here by me.

    Well, I’ve resigned to just leave it alone. If the girls come to me and ask about it, maybe I’ll have something to say. But I’m not going to try and force him to stop texting them, or try and manipulate the situation so that he feels appeased and agrees to stay in our town. I’m not going to try and guilt him and explain what a jerk he is for leaving our girls once again. I’m just going to let things play out, but stick to my boundaries.

    I am not willing to be in a relationship with him, but I’m also not willing to bad mouth him to my daughters. For now, I’ve just asked him to please give me peace and stop texting me and calling me so much while he’s out of town.

    Anyway… I found out one of my CD’s is married. NO! Absolutely not. He was making a plan to come to my town and promised to take my truck in to winterize it. I wrote to him that I finally want to feel that marriage is sacred. I want to believe in faithfulness and true love. Someday, I want a faithful partner who loves me and will not keep secrets from me.

    Therefore, I asked him, please do not contact me or call me.

    And just as quickly, another CD that I haven’t been in contact with in a while sent me a very sweet email asking me about a wine pairing suggestion for a dinner he is having. The emails have continued back and forth. I am feeling very comfortable and happy with this progression because he also lives in a different town, so I don’t have his physical presence as added pressure to my BD saga… but every time he emails me he asks me another question about myself.. as though, he wants to get to know me, but also, is very interested in reading what I write.

    Right now, I feel very fine with a friendship type correspondence from him. It feels good to be connected with a (what seems to be) a good man, while I’m shaking the sifter and letting the dead weight fall through the cracks.

  135.  #135Natalina on September 17, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Andrea- woah, reading your posts you sound so on fire- it’s really inspirational to hear about how circular dating/dating has been working for you. Thank you for sharing.

    And can totally get the frustration about the kids dad. Hearing what has been said I’d want to wash him out of my hair and everything else too.

    What you said about your kids touched me though, and had me remember something Rori has said- it’s our mothers we look to as an example. I know the group here has been inspired by you, your inner strength, and your softness.

    Your girls are lucky to have such a mom.

    Keep slathering on the love.


  136.  #136Kyla on September 17, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    I’m feeling all tied up in knots and hiding in my head, avoiding feelings into what is really going on here. There’s fear there, fear of knowing what is at the root of this stress, fear of having to deal with whatever it is. Ugh all this old stuff from relationships long ago buried is popping up all over the place and clouding my judgement and making me feel gray. I don’t want to deal with emotional healing right now, I want to throw myself head first into my new job and making plans for the future. I’ve had weird, confusing, vivid dreams again this week and not sleeping well as a result. I’m feeling off-balance and grumpy 🙁 I cant pin point why and I fear I’m avoiding consciously acknowledging something right under my nose, I must be, I’m feeling restricted and rebellious and weary and bleugh.

  137.  #137Kyla on September 17, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    Hmmm housework.. I don’t think cleaning/cooking/maintenance is feminine although I do think its feminine to take care of myself and beautify my surroundings. Im untidy and yet I feel so much brighter when my surroundings are clean, smell fresh, look pretty and are comfortable. I hate picking up after other people, it makes me feel taken for granted and I feel unappreciated when someone ‘expects’ me to do anything.. um I work too its not like I’m being supported by a man and we’ve traded providing for the house with running the house. I dunno. I used to wear myself ragged trying to work, care for the kids, keep the house showhome perfect and make fancy meals from scratch. It was an insecurity thing. Now I do what I want and I’m honest with myself about how much I can do and which parts will actually make me feel happier and more peaceful.

  138.  #138Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 10:25 pm


    Can you sit with yourself a bit and ask yourself what’s going on?

    I find sometimes the answer doesn’t come to us because it’s something which doesn’t seem to “make sense” and so our logical brain pushes it away. I find yielding to your body’s wisdom always eventually brings you out the other side of something like this.

    PS. Congrats on your engagement x

  139.  #139Indigo on September 17, 2014 at 10:31 pm

    I have been going through a week like that – since Friday actually – it started off with quite high levels of anxiety which have just gradually been coming down. I am just now coming out of it and the anxiety has been gradually lifting, which I am very grateful for. I have been having trouble sleeping, or at least waking up in the middle of the night, or waking up very early. I have decided to just go with it.

    As the anxiety has been lifting (very slowly), as I have been trying to give it space to move around in me, some interesting revelations have been brought to the surface. So many things about my self-esteem and the way I see myself, and how I still compare myself to other women, thinking I’m not as pretty or as charismatic, thinking I’m somehow wanting – things which aren’t even true, things I don’t even believe. Opportunities to love myself even more, to love myself through every situation and every belief. x

  140.  #140Emerson on September 17, 2014 at 10:51 pm

    I love doing laundry! I like to cook and I like to clean to a point…I’ve always lives in a small house so in that case it feels good to clean…
    If it feels like a chore then i procrastinate …
    I feel open to splitting chores
    I also feel like I may never have to worry about this problem because I can’t seem to meet anyone im interested in. Trying to remain open but nobody on my radar right now.

  141.  #141Emerson on September 17, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    I haven’t been feeling good about myself so I haven’t felt inspired to cd…

  142.  #142Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 12:19 am

    I read all the comments about the household chores, and I see most girls here say they would do whatever they like to do, and I get the impression that women as a whole are comfortable with household chores if they do the things voluntarily, out of their own free will/feelings. But we hate to be told that it is our duty, and obviously we would all hate it if we were criticized for not doing a good job.
    But when you put away the criticism part, cleaning has to be taken care of, and there are only four options in a household: you do it, your partner does it, you pay someone else to do it, or you live in a dirty place.
    I pride myself in having a beautiful and well maintained home (I pay the maid so it is just as good as me doing it) and I take all the credit for it, and by providing beauty and comfort to my family, I express my love and care for them. I think this is the right thing to do, no matter whether it is feminine or not.
    Also, if your partner is consistently telling you they want something from you (like a well kept house) and you consistently reject their wish, where does this place you? Just flip it around, if you want the man to be more attentive to your needs, like have longer foreplay or whatever, how would you feel if he keeps ignoring your wishes, or tries to argue with you that he is actually quite fine the way he is doing it, where does this lead you? What I take from Rori’s message is that this is all about being a good partner, not abour being feminine.

  143.  #143Sophie on September 18, 2014 at 1:56 am

    ((((Andrea)))) wow! I’m going to be rooting for you too (I would be anyway but I didn’t realise he had begun to spew negative energy at you). wow! It takes so much strength and energy not getting sucked in and I can’t imagine how it must feel when you have daughters also. I’m glad you are able to share here with us and I agree with what the others have said. You sound like a wonderful, wise, strong, beautiful, loving woman. And you gave him a chance – and although I wish it hadn’t ended up in this intense sounding challenge, as you say, I guess we must still be learning (some really difficult stuff) xxxx lots of love to you xxx

  144.  #144Sophie on September 18, 2014 at 2:02 am

    (((((Kyla))))) I love Indigo’s comment to you – it’s true sometimes it’s hidden to us when we try and work it out – often I try and love myself through those feelings and then I’ll eventually break down and cry and release whatever my body and mind have been holding onto and still not necessarily know why

    (((Indigo)) I feel sorry you’ve been feeling so anxious but pleased that it’s beginning to lift. It sounded like before you felt so anxious things were getting very busy for you (and then an out of town work trip – which I personally would find quite intense). I’m glad you’ve managed some alone time (at 5am in the morning! :)) xxx

  145.  #145Sophie on September 18, 2014 at 2:05 am

    Hi Emerson 🙂

    Victoria – I think it’s more about considering how you feel about certain things and then negotiating with your partner so that you both feel good. It’s an individual thing but even to make my partner happy I wanted feel good doing all the chores. I would want to negotiate that.

  146.  #146Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 3:05 am


    Thank you so much for your sweet comment – that is just it. So many things overloading me at once, I did not know which way to turn, and it made me more sensitive to other things that were happening – the result was a bit of an anxiety spiral.

    I am also very glad it is lifting 🙂


  147.  #147Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 3:10 am

    Victoria 136,

    With all due respect, you may feel it is the right thing to do, but not everyone feels similarly. There really is no one size fits all for every relationship.

    I do think you need to be able to work it out with your partner in a way that feels good to both of you.

    If a woman feels resentment over a request being made of her by her partner, how is it good for the relationship for her to suck it up and do what’s being asked, all the while seething inside? Wouldn’t it be better for her to come up with a solution which feels better for her?

    Maybe you are not suggesting that the woman should take care of the housework whether she likes it or not. I just think there are multiple solutions which would work for both people – your solution of hiring a housekeeper is the one I would choose.

  148.  #148Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 3:25 am

    thanks a lot for writing to me.
    This is a topic that I find very interesting, and I invite you to give me more of your thinking/feeling, I am very curious about opinions.
    In a partnership, no one likes to be told what to do, you want to do things out of your own conviction. Still, there will be times, when you and your partner will want different things. Then it all comes down to whether you think the request of the other party is reasonable or not. You would only feel resentment and seething inside if you qualify the request as unreasonable. Is it unreasonable for a man to want to live in a neat house? Is it unreasonable that he calls you unfeminine (which here is probably an euphemist for slob) because you repeatedly refuse to clean? These are two different things. I think he is actually trying to negotiate something out of her with this “you do not motivate me as a man when you do not act as a woman”. He is probably withholding something from her, and he is hinting he will give it to her if she is a better housekeeper. This is how I read it, but I am very very curious how others see it. Maybe I have a blind spot?

  149.  #149Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 3:53 am


    I stick with my original opinion that this is a very individual issue which each person and each relationship will handle differently.

    I can only speak from how I feel. You ask:

    “In a partnership, no one likes to be told what to do, you want to do things out of your own conviction. Still, there will be times, when you and your partner will want different things. Then it all comes down to whether you think the request of the other party is reasonable or not. You would only feel resentment and seething inside if you qualify the request as unreasonable.”

    Sorry I do not quite agree. I can accept a request of a partner as perfectly reasonable, and *still* not want to do it, and *still* resent being made to feel like I should. For example, I am an independent person. I like a lot of time to myself, even within a relationship. Is it unreasonable if a man says he wishes I would spend more time with him? No. But it does indicate to me that we are probably not a match because this is an intrinsic part of my personality. It would not make me happy to change.

    Same with housework. There is a certain amount of cooking and cleaning that I like to do. Is it unreasonable if a man wishes me to do more because his standards are higher? No. But whose problem is this, mine or his? The way I see it, if he does not like what I do out of the enjoyment and love of my own heart, he is welcome to supplement it with his own effort.

    The way I see it, you really only have the option to radically accept the partner you are with. You can express your feelings about something, but whether they choose to do something about it is up to them. It is up to you whether you can accept that. Expressing what you would like and then implying that that creates a responsibility in them is tantamount to trying to influence the outcome, and walks the line with guilt-tripping.

    This is my feeling on the matter.

  150.  #150Daria on September 18, 2014 at 4:25 am

    ack! i felt triggered! and panicked

    then i read some lovely siren stories on here and felt better , i grabbed Andreas first post and Indigo’s last, thank you thank you!

    for me, i want him to basically doi t all until i feel like doing some…

    then again i guess i wouldnt expect anything besides cooking and brining me food and stuff i want

    so i can trance out and spiritual & sexual and children stuff all day

  151.  #151Daria on September 18, 2014 at 4:27 am

    i actually feel super lovely and motivated More to clean and stuff – when i want to – when a man’s around, especially if he’s joining me

    yay whew!

  152.  #152Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 5:05 am

    Victoria I think you have some very good and interesting points that are very valid. I believe most men think of their home as their castle. If believe if he is providing it and providing for it, it is only logical that he would value his investment. I also believe it is respecting his values why a man would want his castle clean. For some people it seem messiness doesn’t them but for others it seem it jangles against their energy .

  153.  #153Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 5:47 am

    Thanks a lot for your opinion. I feel a bit more encouraged now to speak up how I see the broader framework.
    You know, besides him providing for the home (we both do) I believe it is my job (or, to use a different word, it is my role in the partnership) to please him, as it is his to please me. I find it curious that many ladies here put such a paramount importance on feelings even when it comes down to very pragmatic things. I suppose this is just what the discourse is here, and it is not that I disagree, it is just different than what would come to my mind.
    For me personally, I do not find the need feelings to be the only guidance for me. It was very interesting to read what Indigo said, that even if she qualifies a request as reasonable, she might still feel resentful to do it, and I gather, from many of the other posters that they would only do what they “feel like” doing.
    I understand the concept, but I do not find it to be a solution for every life situation, and I certainly believe it does not provide for an easy solution when self-interests collide. For me personally, sometimes I would do things even if I do not feel like it, but because it will benefit or please another person. Sometimes I would do it as an exchange and sometimes purely as an expression of love. And sometimes, I would do things in the short run that I do not feel like, because I know in the long run, they will give me the result which I want to have.

  154.  #154Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 5:57 am

    Victoria – For me personally, sometimes I would do things even if I do not feel like it, but because it will benefit or please another person.

    Would you be willing to insert “benefit the relationship” instead?

    I see your point clearly and I do know Rori talks about the relationship like being a 3rd entity with its own needs. Rori as well as other relationship coaches.

  155.  #155Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 6:03 am

    Yeah Victoria,

    I do things on a daily basis which I don’t feel like doing to please other people or for practical reasons. You can’t run a functional life otherwise.

    All I was trying to say is that you don’t need to do something just because someone else wants you to and because it is reasonable.

    Being myself is also very important to me, as is doing things for the people that I love out of joy and love rather than going through the motions. (For the record, I happen to enjoy quite a fair amount of housework!)

  156.  #156Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 6:27 am

    We think very similarly then :-).
    You are then lucky if you “enjoy” doing housework, I enjoy the end result, while the process really does not turn me on. But it needs to be taken care of, so I take care.
    Actually, I like cooking (and eating!) very much, but that is as far as my natural enjoyment goes. The rest is a chore, and in my imaginary ideal world, I would never wish to touch a vacuumcleaner or a mop, or a dirty dish.

  157.  #157Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 6:30 am

    You got me thinking, does the relationship exist beyond the people that make it? It is an interesting metaphore, and I will live with it for a few days to see whether it is useful in my life. Thanks a lot.

  158.  #158Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 6:54 am

    What Alexandra Fox says:-

    Put The Relationship First.

    When faced with a relationship-rocking decision, don’t think: “What’s best for me?” Also, don’t think: “What’s best for him?” The RIGHT question to ask is:

    “What’s best for the relationship?”
    Remember, the relationship isn’t just about you and him. It’s also about your family, your finances, your goals as a couple, and the promises you made to each other.
    When you put the relationship first, the best answer becomes clear, no matter what the problem is.

  159.  #159Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 7:03 am

    Carol Allen

    “So stop thinking relationships are all about love.

    A man can’t just love you in order to have a good relationship – he’s got to be a relationship guy in the first place.”

  160.  #160Victoria on September 18, 2014 at 7:13 am

    it looks like a simple and elegant decision making tool, but I find it slightly fake. Anyhow, I am very willing to try it out for size. Does it work for you?

  161.  #161IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 7:19 am

    I feel so jittery and terrified. At a job fair, using their wifi, waiting for “resume help guy.”

  162.  #162Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 7:29 am

    For Iamhis. And Emerson,

    GOOD. FANTASTIC- anytime you are feeling those things (iamhis) terrified and similar KNOW you are on the right track. Not only that, but the fast track too. Love the terror, and really sink into it. Use it.

    Emerson- I totally get not wanting to do the stuff. Not feeling good about yourself, and thus not feeling motivated to get out there, and IF you decide to move through those feelings and USE them- you will have an even more powerful experience. So my question to you would be, do you want to milk this feeling- this opportunity for all its worth ?


  163.  #163IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Natalina, I feel scared to sink into my terror (is that redundant?) When I sink into it, I feel…so sad I want to cry. I can’t cry here…:( Interesting I also feel it physically in my legs and my rear. & in my shoulders, neck, and arms. It has definitely moved to sadness…Two men just looked at me!

  164.  #164Azure Blu on September 18, 2014 at 7:50 am

    Andrea #128
    I’m remembering Rori saying that our men are a mirror for us… Wondering how that looks to you?

    For me I have noticed over the years how I have repeated patterns from my past…
    My Dad came and went out of my life as I was growing up… I really didn’t have much of an example of how to juggle a 2 parent household… So I felt ill equipped when my children were born as to how to maintain that… I seem to have been determined to push my ex out of the house and sure enough he was gone out of their lives – just like my Dad…
    and of course I had alllll kinds of Rage, anger and controlling which made it impossible to have much of a relationship with me…

    Pealing back my layers has been a life long journey and Now with Rori’s tools I am LOVING ME…
    And Accepting ME and Treasuring and Cherishing ALLL MY FEELINGS
    I know I am MUCH closer to having a
    healthy relationship!! Ahhhh…. Sighhhhh.

    I feel sad that this couldn’t have happened when my children were younger…

  165.  #165Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 7:53 am

    iamhis, “Redundant…yadda yadda” is all head stuff. not wanting to is the resistance… and you can do this.

    breathe, get curious about you. silently acknowledge your love for you. your intention to give yourself a great job (you are so awesome for taking care of yourself and your needs in this way-letting your own boy energy take the lead for YOUR girl energy)

    so do some mini tools:

    if you are scared and resisting the fear- put a hand on your shoulder (I imagine they are up by your ears and tight tight tight trying to hold all the feelings back)

    tell your shoulder, “I love you and thank you for protecting me, I got this.”

    and you do. even if you are not 1000% believing it yourself- your intention is to have a great love, you intend to have a great job… you intend to HAVE IT. to be able to gracefully take care of it. and settle into those intentions and the feeling IN those intentions.

    does that sound doable, or just make you want to rampage a bit more?

    Let me know,

  166.  #166Labbit on September 18, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Sirens, first I’m sorry I haven’t been responding to many threads in here…still sorting through all my feelings and trying to take care of myself.

    I could use some help right now. TenderCD has been calling me…texting me…and I’m not sure what to do. The morning after we broke up I sent him an email saying he was making a huge mistake. I know I broke one of the rules (not taking no for an answer)…I figured I’d never hear from him again anyway so may as well tell him how I really felt.

    His texts just say “you’re right.” And his voicemails are simple…call me, let’s talk. But I am feeling really weak right now when it comes to him…and I’m not sure what I feel or what the best thing to do to take care of me is. Part of me feels that if he’s ready to do relationship then I want to go for it! But part of me wonders if this is just drama…the last thing I want.

    Any thoughts?

  167.  #167Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 8:32 am

    Woah, Labbit-

    it sounds like you got an in here. and you can totally take it- we can work on a script for this conversation that sounds like HE WANTS and IS ASKING FOR…

    yet the flip side of this is does this feel like too much work for you. most relationships can stand to have some de-cluttering happen (declutter the drama factors and learn to really speak from the heart)

    and don’t beat yourself up about “breaking a rule” in this case, if the relationship is sour, it wouldn’t be going anywhere anyway- but you have so many opportunities here to CONTINUE to expand your repertoire of men (circular date) and also invite in a relationship with this man.

    I have to laugh a little, sounds like you totally went Beyonce on this guy, and no harm done.


  168.  #168IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 8:42 am

    So, I started crying during resume help. I found myself feeling angry at the guy. He was so masculine, all business, came across as condescending. I started using feeling messages about how embarrassed I felt to be crying and he softened & became extremely helpful. I feel so…sad and scared and angry and hopeless. I feel like feminine energy has no place in business. Anger (considered to be a more masculine emotion) tends to be more acceptable than sadness. Linked in even had an article about it. I’ll post it if I find it…

  169.  #169Oshun on September 18, 2014 at 8:45 am


    It doesn’t hurt to hear him out. Call him or answer when he calls and let him talk. If he’s ready for the relationship you want…seriously ready then go for it. If he lolly-gags and still wants to be friends until he figures himself out aka have access to you while he does what he wants go No Contact on him.

    You’re a smart goddess. You’ll do what’s best for you. And trust, we’ve all “broken rules”. After all we are just SPIRITS living a HUMAN experience. Souls know nothing of rules.



  170.  #170IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 8:49 am

    I think I might have a vitamin deficiency. I have started taking my vitamins again, but they make me feel sick. I feel so scared. I feel like I wasted the last ten years of my life. I feel like the value of my life is diminished into a resume, a lack of relationship history, no children, few unmarried friends. I wanted to do things right, to wait and grow rather than rush and marry. I had no idea how isolating and lonely it would feel. I feel so lost…

  171.  #171Oshun on September 18, 2014 at 8:49 am

    So the guy I decided to CD with might not even make it to the “meet & greet” on Monday. He calls after the hour I stop answering the phone for strangers. Every time. And honestly, I’m already over it. Probably because I know this won’t go anywhere. My patience. .. let’s just say this… When God handed out patience, I overslept and missed that day.

  172.  #172Oshun on September 18, 2014 at 8:55 am



    Change how you see things. It’s easier said than done but once done your outlook will change. Trust that I have days like that myself. Everybody’s getting married and having babies and I’m here wondering what’s going on with me. Your path in not theirs. Theirs is not yours. Your soul is calling forth what it’s been longing for. You just have to keep focused and not lose hope.

    The value of your life is not diminished. You are doing things the right way.

  173.  #173Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 8:57 am

    Iamhis – OF COURSE anger tends to FEEL better, feels more proactive. it is definitely an energy to be reckoned with- anger is one of the best “get it done, I’m going to DO something right now” feelings ever.

    and YES!!! you are doing it, You are in the Soup. if that is the only thing you get out of this beautiful experience TAKE IT. because every time you are going deeper. I promise. your feelings are amazing.

    and I have felt that same thing, “the feminine has no place in business” and that sounds like a little nagging voice telling you you cant have what you want. (so you have the sadness coming up too, which is beautiful because you have so many parts of yourself speaking up, telling you what is going on with them…)

    and with all of that, continue to go back to saying to these parts of yourself, “thankyou I love you SO MUCH, and I am taking care of it (because you really are, JUST BEING OUT THERE, is you taking care of it.)

    we could do an entire session on the feminine in business… but for now, just know that this is something you intend to master. right? for now, love it, embrace it, and get REALLY REALLY clear on what would be ideal for you. because whatever that is, you can have it.

    hey- this image just came up, and maybe it will speak to you too- Chaos, the goddess, with all those tumultuous emotions, her power, was also grace, and greatly revered. I believe she was a goddess revered in the water countries. -water=emotions.

    and regardless of your religion, you can take heart in the comfort old tales tell.

    just flip your perspective, tell yourself… “what if this is the beginning of what I have been wanting…”

    “what if I am on the right track here?”

    “what if business IS a powerful and completely *more than suitable place for feminine energy…”

    “what if I was successful using my feminine energy in business and in the work that I do….”

    Love to you!!

  174.  #174IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 8:58 am

    When the resume guy softened, he started throwing out career suggestions. I kept saying no to pretty much all of them and he said that was going to hurt me in an interview. It was a mindset he said. I don’t want. Aren’t we supposed to say that, to establish our boundaries? The problem is I don’t know what I want. I feel like smashing some breakables. It would feel cathartic.

  175.  #175Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 9:00 am


    My honest opinion is that it sounds like this guy doesn’t really know what he wants. He’s going back and forth – wanting you and whispering sweet nothings, then backing off and needing space, then back again wanting to talk.

    It’s perfectly valid for him to be going through that – it could be to do with any number of things going on with him – but the question is will it do for you. Can you bear a little more going back and forth, because that is what I think you will be in for. I don’t think there’s any right or wrong. You could always hear him out and use it as an opportunity to state how you genuinely feel.

    I just wouldn’t expect too much from this guy in terms of being able to give you much of a commitment.

    Hugs to you x

  176.  #176IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 9:05 am

    I’m sobbing on the toilet in the public bathroom of this stupid place. & logically I know it’s not stupid, but it feels sooooooooooooo good to call it stupid. I want to get drunk. I’ve never so much as had a sip of wine, but I guess that’s just the part of myself who doesn’t want to feel her feelings.

  177.  #177IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 9:07 am

    My shoulder has knots in it. My orthopedic said my ligaments are stretched out. I feel LIVID at the cost of health care and that I don’t have health insurance right now.

  178.  #178IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Thank you, Natalina. Aside from J3sus, I don’t know what I believe anymore, and it makes me feel angry that I feel like I don’t have permission or community with which to believe what I actually might believe, which by the way, I am still figuring out.

  179.  #179IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 9:12 am

    I feel angry at Time.

  180.  #180Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 9:12 am


    well there are some great points to what he is saying, and as a “career fair advisor” those are the trends that is his business to keep a pulse on.

    and it would be a huge help to you to get clear on your ideal career situation, maybe sit down with a career coach or similar, read What Color is Your Parachute…

    take a deep breathe and go down to basics- is this a job you intend to have as a CAREER or is this the bandaid of sorts until you get what you really want?

    I worked in a staffing agency for awhile, and noticed it wasnt nearly as diverse as what the movies depict. the choices were “clerical” and “light industrial” (which meant really, would you like to do call center work, or would you like to work in a dirty sweaty factory?)

    unless you already have a network set up, and have the credentials to go straight into a defined field-Circular date the Dirty Jobs.

    get curious about those places and tasks, and the people you will run into in those places, while at the same time INTENDING to have a great fullfilling career.

    tons and tons of options, however, if you reject all the opportunities offering themselves to you… you are going the hard way about getting to where you want.

    I find many many many times that once I say yes to a “dirty job” (the not so ideal situation) a better opportunity comes along.

    AND- if you haven’t already, go apply at ALL of the temp services facilities in your area. you will have tons and tons more opportunities to try things out, build up your love muscles by doing the tools in the different places with all sorts of new people,

    and my bet is that you will find your situation feels like it is improving just as rapidly as you are coming to love yourself and what is– AND I would even say, love yourself – your boy energy, for setting up a system that will feed you financially- AS WELL AS, provide opportunities for fast changes.

    that is what we are all about, right ladies, fast and easy changes that get us up front and forever with our personal desires.

    you are in a process of cracking open, iamhis. and all of this is very raw. (in a good way)

  181.  #181Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Labbit I totally agree with Natalina. This could be a make or break moment. What is coming to mind is the song below. I love it how you told him he is making a mistake. I think he is believing you and I believe that came from your confident girl. Not responding immediately to him is reinforcing his belief in that girl and his respect for her. If you decide to talk to him and he asks for a relationship I’d tell him I need to check in with myself to see if what he is offering is what I really want. He already showed you that he has the capacity to walk away.

    “Well you only need the light when it’s burning low
    Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Only know you’ve been high when you’re feeling low
    Only hate the road when you’re missin’ home
    Only know you love her when you let her go
    And you let her go

    Staring at the bottom of your glass
    Hoping one day you’ll make a dream last
    But dreams come slow and they go so fast

    You see her when you close your eyes
    Maybe one day you’ll understand why
    Everything you touch surely dies

    But you only need the light when it’s burning low
    Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Only know you’ve been high when you’re feeling low
    Only hate the road when you’re missin’ home
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Staring at the ceiling in the dark
    Same old empty feeling in your heart
    ‘Cause love comes slow and it goes so fast

    Well you see her when you fall asleep
    But never to touch and never to keep
    ‘Cause you loved her too much
    And you dived too deep

    Well you only need the light when it’s burning low
    Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Only know you’ve been high when you’re feeling low
    Only hate the road when you’re missin’ home
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    And you let her go (oh, oh, ooh, oh no)
    And you let her go (oh, oh, ooh, oh no)
    Will you let her go?

    ‘Cause you only need the light when it’s burning low
    Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Only know you’ve been high when you’re feeling low
    Only hate the road when you’re missin’ home
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    ‘Cause you only need the light when it’s burning low
    Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    Only know you’ve been high when you’re feeling low
    Only hate the road when you’re missin’ home
    Only know you love her when you let her go

    And you let her go”

  182.  #182IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 9:20 am

    Natalina, thank you sooo much. So helpful.

  183.  #183Azure Blu on September 18, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Labbitt #160
    Ohhh… darling one….

    You didn’t break a rule… every relationship is different… and Rori says to honor our inner Drama Queen… she is helping you figure out what YOU really NEED and WANT from the Relationship with Tender…

    For me… too much distance, time away, from the person I love and am having a relationship with
    creates tooo many Triggers for ME… I need consistent, regular together time..
    It won’t work… I would have to move on…

    Now that you ARE loving and cherishing YOUR feelings… Can you stand up for What YOU want?

  184.  #184Dominique on September 18, 2014 at 9:25 am

    IamHis – 164 & 168 – You may or may not have a vitamin deficiency, yet supplements can be tricky things to maneuver, especially if your system is sensitive. Multi-vitamin, an all in one pill can easily wreak havoc. Most supplements make me feel sick too, sometimes even a bit psychotic feeling let alone the nausea, etc.

    A whole foods diet is a good place to start, then try individual supplements one by one depending on what your symptoms are, for example low energy might be B vitamin deficiency. One of the first ones I would suggest adding is a good quality pro-biotic so that you can absorb your food nutrients better as well as establish better flora in your intestines.

    As for the job/career thing, how about exercising openness an curiosity here too just as it’s recommended with men and dating. Unless it’s totally distasteful, you really won’t know until you try. And this might be a good way to discover/uncover what it is you love to do.

    And it may not be one thing. I found out the hard way that I feel best when I have a finger in many pots, and I’ve learned to not only make peace with this but to embrace it. Maybe it’s similar for you?

    Sending you love.


  185.  #185Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 9:28 am


    What I have learnt is that the job which is ideal for you often is not what you thought it would be. There are so many options nowadays.

    Yes I agree, take on a whole lot of temp assignments at diverse companies, and start to look at the work with a really curious and open mind. Reflect on the parts of the job that you like and are good at, and start narrowing down your career options from there. Don’t be afraid to take your time. There is no real rush.

  186.  #186Dominique on September 18, 2014 at 9:29 am

    IamHis – A wonderful thing for knots anywhere on your body is to get yourself a firm roller, and roll. Rest on a spot that feels ultra tight. It’s good for the upper,mid, and low back, sides, legs back and front, anywhere. They’re not expensive. I get mine from OTPT.com. The black Avis is the best one.


  187.  #187Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Wow, Dominique

    SO interesting about the multi-vitamins. I take a multivitamin for women every day and I feel better with it than without it, but I’m sure I could be fine-tuning this.

    Do you have any vitamins you can recommend for a sensitive system, such as for example when I am stressed or anxious I don’t eat or digest my food very well.


  188.  #188Azure Blu on September 18, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Oshun #165
    I believe it is important to watch how cds react to
    our boundaries….
    “When I show you who I am… Believe me the first time”

    I’m thinking there is a good side to your impatience…
    (In this case) You don’t clutter up your life with people who are NOT respectful…
    Lovely, warm Siren… You are Loving YOU and getting closer to Mr. Right everyday!!

  189.  #189Andrea on September 18, 2014 at 9:59 am

    Azure Blu, So true…
    BD as my mirror. When I see him as my mirror it’s when I am the angriest at him.
    He’s unprepared for the world of responsibility. (me.. from my perspective)
    He has no financial foundation, and fearfully I can see no financial future. (me)
    He would rather drink away his emotions that are coming up with regards to his failures. (me)
    He is a dark shadow of entitlement.. only his past, his value of himself that he sees in his own mind… can explain his since of entitlement. He feels he’s owed something, for the life of me I can’t figure out where he gets that attitude from. (but my past boyfriends have accused me of exactly that same thing)
    Mainly…. looking at him….. I feel a deep black hole of poverty. I feel anger and pain and huge fear… humongous fear of the future.

    (I can’t take care of all my needs, nor the needs of my daughters. I’m a failure at being a provider! And absolute failure. Yes, we’ve survived, but we need so much more as they grow older. And I’m freaking afraid. I’m afraid that I chose the wrong partners, and that with out a good partner, my girls and I will be left in the dust by a capitalist society that is rapidly becoming more and more de-sensitized. I don’t know where I fit in.)

    I project all of my fears onto him. I blame him because…. he is a man, and he’s supposed to know better!!! (sexist)

    He wants someone to take care of him. (I want someone to take care of me.)

    I’m not going to take care of him. (I’m scared that no one is going to step up and take care of me.)
    I feel like his overtures toward me and his wanting a relationship with me are intimately tied into the fact that he has always been babied and taken care of capable women who boss him, house him, clean him, feed him… and all he has had to do is work his job and drink.
    (I’m freaked scared to admit to the possibility that perhaps my whole search for a man, a partner, has been to find someone who will answer those big questions for me… just tell me what to do and I’ll do it.. just take care of me.)

    And seeing that in him enrages me, cause I hate to see it in me.

    Where is the grace? How do I come to terms with the fact that I’m scared to death out here all by myself with out a financial leg to stand on. I’m scared that the patterns of poverty repeat themselves and that my daughters will be forced to settle for less….
    It’s not all materialistic, but the brunt majority of this culture… really is. And I feel like I’ve fallen behind. I feel like my daughters won’t be able to catch up.

    And BD is not helping. But he’s here. So, desperately but determendly I intend to heal this gaping wound. He’s here now to help me heal, not to be my financial security. He’s here now to help me to find mercy for the hungry poor frightened kid with in me that feels value-less with out money, with out a plan, with out a financial future. He’s here now to simply ask me to find value in him…. find value in my own shadow…. peace today and hope for the future.

    I can see that it’s time for me to deal with this issue. I don’t know how though……

  190.  #190Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 10:02 am

    Dominique my physiotherapist recommended that roller

  191.  #191Dominique on September 18, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Indigo – 181 – I used to take so many different things, and over time I realized I felt sick, bloated, icky, weird in the head most of the time. So discontinued everything and felt better within days.

    Most of your vitamin and mineral needs can be taken care of with a good diet despite what the ads say and even if you’re not a big eater.

    I’m down to a minimum now. I take one pro-biotic a day. Ultimate Flora I found to be the best, and you don’t need a huge count unless your system has been stressed with illness or something like this, and even then…15 billion count which is the lowest available in this line is suffuciennt I have found. More is not necesssarily better. I also take or two high quality Omega. I think Norwegian Gold Critical Omega is the best. Also a liquid Calcium/Magnesium formula along with additional Vitamin D3 in liquid, and that’s it.

    There is an excellent liquid iron formula for iron deficiency called Floradix Iron and Herbs if you need iron. This one is easiest to digest with no constipation, common for most iron supplements.

    I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if you have any other questions.


  192.  #192Oshun on September 18, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Azure Blu,

    You’re right. For a while I felt like I was becoming a man-eater. I read a blog where another lady explained she felt the same way when she started loving herself more and standing firm in her boundaries. It’s a part of the process, I guess.

  193.  #193IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Indigo – Magnesium is amazing for stress relief. (It is found in chocolate, which explains a lot! ) I’ll try to find a link to my favorite supplement.

    And Dominique – Thank you so much! 🙂

  194.  #194Azure Blu on September 18, 2014 at 10:20 am

    (((((Andrea))))) #183…
    Ohhhh… how beautiful and authentic are you
    Softly and gently Sharing YOUR Soul here on Siren Island!!!
    This is soooo tender…
    ” So, desperately but determendly I intend to heal this gaping wound.
    He’s here now to help me heal,
    not to be my financial security.
    He’s here now to help me to find mercy
    for the hungry poor frightened kid
    with in me that feels value-less with out money,
    with out a plan, with out a financial future.
    He’s here now to simply ask me
    to find value in him….
    find value in my own shadow….
    peace today and hope for the future. ”

    Sooo much of what you are saying is what I also feel…
    Even if my children are grown… My economic situation is below poverty… I continue to sabatoge all MY efforts… I MUST and I WILL change this!!!
    I see how I am wanting to be rescued by a man…

    It feels like I am REJECTING ME… to continue refusing
    to do the work I DO HAVE!!
    My little girl is having a temper tantrum…
    no, no, no… I DON’T want to do any of this
    Work that I sooo love doing…
    I must take at this…

  195.  #195Dominique on September 18, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Femininewoman – I LOVE my roller. It feels SO good and not just for physical tightness but emotional tightness as well, anxiety, stress. It can easily all become trapped in the tissues, so rolling really helps unblock and get things moving.


  196.  #196RileyTheOwl on September 18, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Dominique, I am also interested just like indigo, on which multivitamins are gentle on sensitive systems yet help sooth and calm during stress and high anxiety times.
    I love nutrition.
    I love giving my body, feeding my body, all the vitamins, proteins, minerals, and all the other good things it needs to thrive.
    I love balanced diets.
    I love big full meals that leave nutrients spreading all through me.
    I love organic, my herb garden…

    Right now I am taking fish oils tablets….. And I only started about a couple weeks ago… What are your opinions on these sirens?

  197.  #197RileyTheOwl on September 18, 2014 at 10:26 am

    Dominique, 185- just saw this now. Thank you:)

  198.  #198Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Thank you Dominique, I have a pretty good idea now, so thank you!


  199.  #199Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 10:39 am

    Thanks IamHis! 🙂

  200.  #200IamHis on September 18, 2014 at 11:31 am

    Please don’t anyone jump down my throat, this in the nature of riffing: I HATE MEN SO MUCH RIGHT NOW. Freaking married men.

  201.  #201teresa on September 18, 2014 at 11:38 am


  202.  #202teresa on September 18, 2014 at 11:40 am


    I will get with you once I know my father is in stable condition.

  203.  #203Femininewoman on September 18, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    teresa my prayers are with you and your dad. Sending you lots of positive energy

  204.  #204prplpsn28 on September 18, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Teresa…sending prayers for you and your dad.

    It’s been one of those days. Youngest daughter sick with one of her headaches, I’ve had ringing in the ears and a bloody nose, and the engine light is on in my car. And for some reason H is heavy on my mind today. Haven’t heard from him since this past wknd. Maybe he got the hint that I’ve moved on and won’t accept crumbs. I joined a dating site about a week ago but I’m just not feeling it. Yuck! I think I’m going to delete my profile. I think I still need some time just to be with “me”. Ugh

  205.  #205Waterfall on September 18, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Hi Sirens

    Just sitting here quietly and reading all the posts.

    Thank you, Azure, about reminding us that men are often our mirrors. This is a very timely reminder for me.

    I realise how entwined I am with D, and I am working hard to free myself. Please hope for the best for me. At the moment I have noticed I am finding it hard not to think about him. I cannot see the wood for the trees…

    I miss him phyisically and it is almost like I have blocked all the bad stuff out or I have excused it away. Am I just beginning to understand him more??

    He wrote me an email today about relationships and at first I felt really annoyed because its tone was condescending. Then I felt pity because it was almost like a person who had no idea what a relationship was writing about a relationship.

    It was almost like he had no experience of friendships, sibling relationships, etc… It was like he had no idea what he was talking about, and I felt sad for him.

    It was like an alien describing a friendship as if they had read about them but never experienced one themselves.

    Well, I have signed up to online dating. I do feel more positive. I am going to try & go to the gym tmw, I have promised I will go all week but just haven’t had time…

  206.  #206Azure Blu on September 18, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Purple #198
    Such amazing, loving actions YOU are taking
    For YOU!!! HUGSSS

    When I started taking loving steps to protect and nurture ME… my body reacted as well as my emotions…

    When I was trying to remove myself from a toxic relationship – BK – Even if I really didn’t want to date…
    It helped me keep my mind off of HIM
    and don’t forget… All cds are FREE therapy!!!
    And it’s always nice to be take out to dinner!!

  207.  #207Kyla on September 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    Thank you Indigo and Sophie, I feel so appreciative of your support 😀

    I feel silly as so much talk of vitamins and diet on the blog today and it hits me that its simply mood swings from poor diet thats causing these bad feelings ‘for no reason’ 🙁 Eating the wrong food throws my entire mind/heart/body system out of whack very quickly and I feel grumpy and my brain feels foggy and scattered. Oooh such a good reminder to listen carefully to what my body is saying and take better care of her on all levels.

    Dominique lovely advice re whole food and supplements and I think I will invest in a roller for my back too 🙂

  208.  #208Kyla on September 18, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    (((Purple))) I hope you feel better beautiful. I feel inspired by your strength and I feel so familiar too with the ‘ughhh’ feeling when I signed up to pof a week after a painful breakup. The feeling flip-flopped from ughh to nervousness to excitement to curiosity to boredom to interest to fun and relaxed many, many times during the dating process. Its all part of sinking into whatever triggers are presenting at the moment and allowing your heart to heal and be more authentic. Love the ughh feeling and then do something that makes you feel better.

  209.  #209Labbit on September 18, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Natalina 161 — how do I reach you?

    Oshun 163 — Thank you for the vote of confidence. 🙂 It is true that you can’t mess up with the right man…however I do realize that he is both strong and sensitive (as am I!). We really are two peas in a pod. This all might be way easier than I’m making it out to be…I don’t think I expected to hear back from him so soon!

    Indigo 169 — Totally, I believe you are right on. I’ve also waffled a bit and my anxiety was through the roof. I feel unsure sometimes just as he does.

    FW 175 — Aww, I know that song so well. And now I am crying…thank you for your feedback. It gives me a path of confidence moving forward.

    Azure Blu 177 — Yes, this is very tough for me too as we’ve discussed. It’s very hard for me to go more than a few days without communication…and it seems kind of easy for him to slip into his cave mode where we don’t speak for days. I feel strongly that we’ll have to negotiate this.

  210.  #210prplpsn28 on September 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    Thank you so much Azure and Kyla. Kyla…I don’t think anyone has ever told me they’ve been inspired by me. 🙂

  211.  #211Violette on September 18, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    AD sent me a good night text. He is so sweet and romantic. He said he was laying down reading and thinking of me.

    I see him tomorrow and I feel excited. Last time I saw him he brought me chocolates from his weekend away visiting his daughter at college.

    Thank you to all the comments about exclusivity with a guy…I appreciate being heard and it’s all food for thought. I did say to myself, hey, why not try it. And I noticed that like clockwork I was checking my phone to see if he’d texted, I’d never done that before. I started feeling needy and worried! And he hadn’t done a thing to make me feel that way. And he did text just to say he was thinking about me.

    When I saw him after that he actually said a friend sent him a quote that resonated, about letting things take their time and evolve, and he told me about it. It made me feel heard.

    I went to a yoga class with a friend last night, ahhh, me and my life. And there were cute guys there and it’s been so long since I’ve smiled at a new guy! Thank GOD!!!

    Day by day learning to adjust to my new frantic lifestyle in loving ways of acceptance, trying not to judge myself for letting my life get so busy. I have never admired busy people and it’s not what my aim is. But I can accept my life for now, because it’s mine and I cherish it.

    Anyway hoping AD doesn’t bring up exclusivity again for a little while. I want to let things breathe, until I feel more secure.

  212.  #212Natalina on September 18, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Labbit- you can find me at http://www.lovecoachnatalina.com

    and I’d be thrilled to talk with you more 🙂

  213.  #213Linda on September 18, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Andrea… I am really learning a lot from your processing here. You certainly have discovered some challenging reflections in your mirror.

    I felt quite a while ago that your invitation to your ex and girls dad was going to lead you on a healing journey and no matter what the final outcome is.

    It appears to me that your feminine voice is speaking very clearly her needs and your masculine energy has failed to provided them for her. The places you feel your lacking, fallen short , unwisely prepared for etc etc…all feel very masculine energy responsibilities stuff to me.

    How are you knit together, what energy zone feels the most natural and peaceful to you? What does your dream life feel like. Who are you in it, feminine or masculine energy or both. I see what you invited into your life as reaching out to try to meet needs that you know are important and un dimisable and nothing to beat yourself up about. THere are no mistakes only steps on our journey. What do you think?

  214.  #214Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    Labbit 203

    “my anxiety was through the roof.”

    Mine too! I can see that now looking back on old conversations with guys I dated, even as I remember vividly, all too VIVIDLY, what that felt like. This is something I only feel safe admitting to you guys here and close friends – but there were days I would lock the door of my office and just sob or curl up on the floor. Sometimes it would give me a migraine and once I had to go home from work because it was so severe.

    I see now how I don’t want to be bringing that into my relationships, for obvious reasons and ones I have learned the hard way, and it’s one of the major reasons I have decided to scale back on dating. I feel thankful now that my anxiety is now at more or less manageable levels, thanks in part to my scaling back (and also wonderful help I received from Dominique!)

  215.  #215Indigo on September 18, 2014 at 10:45 pm

    It has been a really interesting experience for me the last week, loving myself through my anxiety. Noticing the gremlin lies and the thoughts my anxiety has been bringing up, and being able to be there for myself, love myself through it, remind myself of how lovely and special I am. Being able to tell myself over and over again that things will be ok. Just reminding myself that every “mistake” I think I have made has been a lovely opportunity for learning and healing. To send myself lots of love and calming energy, to really just practice loving on myself extra HARD through what is a difficult feeling for me.

  216.  #216Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 1:16 am

    Azure Blu and Andrea such amazing and inspiring insights. I need to really sink into this. I completely identify. And Linda…those are really good questions. I am in deep financial s%$t partly because I was attempting to find some way of bringing in money that felt more integral to my feminine energy, partly because I sabotage a lot through my own fears and insecurities and partly because I too have a little girl that just wants to be taken care of. My boy is going to have to support my girl out of this.

    Purple – I have found the way you have managed the situation with H inspiring to xxx

  217.  #217Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 1:22 am

    And the way I manage to support myself (or not) is all wrapped up in feelings of self worth and in providing myself with a stable, positive and enhancing environment in which to thrive. I cannot be productive when I have negative people and drama in my life zapping all my creativity and energy. Lots and lots and lots of self love to do here.

  218.  #218Kath on September 19, 2014 at 2:22 am

    Ladies I need your help!!!- I am struggling. Last night I blew up at him because he was being totally irrational and illogical and just kept blaming me for everything and for the relationship breaking down. I just snapped!- regretted it afterwards and just feel really really drained now. I have two more weeks of having to cope with the insanity and I have to find a way through this. He has asked me every evening if I want him to cook for me!!- I have refused every time. Why the hell would I want to eat with him??- I have nothing to say to him- it would be such an icky experience. Then he keeps asking what am I going to do with this item of furniture, that item of furniture- its driving me nuts!- I just cannot believe that he can homestly think its all been my fault. Oh no, he did actually say that he has made “some mistakes”- Grr!- hasn’t really got a clue. I need some words of wisdom to create a calm message to say to him this evening because I am dreading the weekend!- thank you!

  219.  #219prplpsn28 on September 19, 2014 at 5:08 am

    Thank you Sophie 🙂

  220.  #220Femininewoman on September 19, 2014 at 6:12 am

    Kath the thing is what are you saying to yourself? You seem quite angry. He is obviously putting out bids for connection that you keep rejecting. One thing I have learned is to reframe my story. Your story is different than is and it is part of the reason why you are so angry. It seems to me you need to find a peaceful place inside yourself that you can talk to find out why you are so angry. Then share with him from that place. You have already decided to move forward so sharing honestly with him or even eating with him could be like something you do out of habit. Like just brushing your teeth with a toothbrush. There is no investment in this toothbrush as you change it when it wears out. If you consider that you are not invested in any outcome for the talk what is there to be angry or resistant about? Why are his questions driving you nuts? Is it because you don’t want to be the one to make decisions about separating or about your life? If so why not?

    I encourage you to ask yourself some tough questions so you can go deep inside to find your strength.

  221.  #221Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Lovely Siren…
    Triggers…. He is bringing YOU this gift…
    Now it is up to you to look closely at these triggers and what they are….
    Name the Trigger… yearning?, blaming, anger
    How they make YOU feel…
    Where (in your past perhaps) do they come from?
    Wrap YOUR arms around YOU and give you
    Much compassion and LOVE!!!

  222.  #222Victoria on September 19, 2014 at 6:51 am

    I am still thinking about this “think about whats best for the relationship” and I am still unsure.
    The main problem I have is with the presciption that this is a tool for relationship-rocking decisions. What is a relationship-rocking decision? The relationship rocking decision that comes to my mind is “do I want this relationship” with the person as he is (since we all pretty much know that people do not change, or at least they do not change easily). So, if this is the question, then you can’t answer it “thinking what’s best for the relationship” because then you simply can not have “no” as a possible answer. When I said it sounds fake I mean it sounds tautological.
    Your thoughts would be appreciated.

  223.  #223Femininewoman on September 19, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Victoria I did not respond before because I did not feel connected to what you were saying. This last comment also seem to be trying to logically process. I believe that people do change. When a man is in love he does allow a woman to influence him and in this context many change.

    I don’t think the advice was only a tool for relationship-rocking decisions. I see it as a way to shift internal where a person is coming from so they can be perceived or felt differently by the other person.

    When a person is coming from a place where they want to share love rather than give love or get love the vibe is different. I am not sure it can be something easily explained to the intellect. All I know is that it can be felt with the heart.

    Same goes for when a person is coming from a place of talking to somebody as opposed to talking with somebody. When the intention is to talk with someone internally we come from a different place. It seems there is more empathy and more focus on understanding the other person rather than wanting to be understood.

    With relation to whats best for the relationship when that decision is made the intention is usually to communicate in a way that doesn’t alienate anyone. Or even to get my needs met first. It is usually how can we work this out together that we both get our needs met without harming the connection between us.

  224.  #224Victoria on September 19, 2014 at 7:43 am

    thanks a lot. I understand better now. The part from your answer that really resonates with me is “to communicate in a way that doesn’t alienate anyone”. To me this is a meaningful goal, even if I am not sure whether I want to preserve the relationship or not, or I am feeling that the relationship itself needs to be redifined. Thanks again.

  225.  #225Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 8:01 am

    LOVE this…
    ” how can we work this out together that we both get our needs met without harming the connection between us.”

  226.  #226Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Hello Darling Sirens…
    I just finished an amazing session with

    She carefully listened to my struggles and my victories
    and has many useful, helpful tools she warmly shares.

    She has great positive, supportive energy and I feel reinvigorated and ready and open to the change in MY life!!
    Thank YOU Natalina!!! huggs

  227.  #227Indigo on September 19, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Victoria & FW,

    I suppose for me it means valuing the relationship above the issue. For me, this caused such a massive paradigm shift that I have trouble explaining it to other people. It’s hard to explain even here, but it has to do with honouring who you are, who the other person is, and who you are together, above being right. I have found the other person can sense this, and it gives way to heart-based communication, as opposed to logical rationalizing which gives way to arguing.

    For me, it is the most wonderful feeling in the world to be valued for who I am over the other person’s need to be right, and I strive to give this gift to those I love as well.

  228.  #228RileyTheOwl on September 19, 2014 at 9:44 am

    “What is best for this relationship”….
    It feels good. It feels safe, it feels like I love you, care for you, want you in my life…. It feels like I’m loved and cared for and wanted too. It feels like we’re in this together, we’re building each other up. It feels supportive, it feels like wow, I can open myself up and we can move through this together.

    I like this a lot. Having a partner who is along with you thinking “what is best for this relationship” feels so secure.

  229.  #229IamHis on September 19, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Feeling so much better today physically and emotionally! # Shakeology

  230.  #230Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Kath – 212 – what is it you want to say to him? let’s start with this and craft into something which feels good to you.


  231.  #231Kath on September 19, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Feminine woman thank you- I did need to do what you said. I was angry because I felt as thought I’d invested so much in the relationship and had hoped that he would look at me as the woman he wanted to share the rest of his life with. But when I realised that no matter what I did I was never going to have that special place- I felt as though I had to compete for his love and affection and I could feel the rejection in me when he treated me less than I wanted. He demanded a lot from me and yet was unable to give me the same in return. So I built up all that pain and hurt and feelings of rejection and turned them into resentment-and then took it out on him, expecting him to hear my pain and change. That was my mistake. He didn’t understand and didn’t hear me but I still kept trying to get him to hear me. Banging my head against a brick wall and then wondering why I was getting more miserable. I should have stopped committing and planning for our future far sooner. I should have looked after me better-rather than expecting him to. He text me whilst I was at work today asking for no more abuse the rest of his text was so painful to read. He said he got it that he’d screwed up but that he didn’t feel sorry for anything that he;d done and that he was starting to hate me. It hurt so much to read that-I came home thinking that I would try my hardest to be civil to him but he started on me as soon as I walked through the door. My head was shot and I just broke down in tears-I can’t take any more. He shouted at me that he didn’t want to hear me, said he’d sent me a text which I hadn’t read or known about. I read it and in it he asked if I really wanted him around this weekend. I really didn’t care what he did- I just wanted peace. We argued (again!) and he stormed off. I feel awful-I just want peace.

  232.  #232Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    Victoria – 216 – Actually people can change a lot, and I truly believe that if this is the man for you, if this is the relationship for you, then he will grow and change right along with you, as you blossom.

    This may help.



  233.  #233Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Kath – 225 – I’m SO sorry you’re feeling so much pain. Sending you much love and a big hug sweetheart.


  234.  #234Kath on September 19, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Dominique- I wanted to say that I wish he’d heard me before when I tried so hard to speak to him. I wanted him to see how sad I was because I didn’t feel as though I was being respected or my values being accepted. He always stepped up his contact with both x’s when he wanted to and I felt a change in his attitude towards me when he did. He has a pet name for his X-wife which he continues to use and I felt totally crushed when I heard him say to her that he was in need of his “Looby fix”. It just feels as though the more I put into the relationship the more he took out of it and used my kindness against me.

  235.  #235Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Lovely Dominique!!!
    I love this post of yours… I can read it again and again

  236.  #236Indigo on September 19, 2014 at 12:53 pm


    I wonder what would happen if you turned this around – where are you not seeing how sad you are? Where are you not respecting yourself, or accepting your values? Where are you fighting with and crushing yourself? Where are you neglecting you?

    Try leaving him out of it for the moment, see what comes up.

  237.  #237Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Ohhh… lovely Siren… I feel so sad that you are going through this…
    but this can lead to YOU loving YOU mORE!!!
    I agree with Indigo…
    Why have you hired Him to Emotionally beat YOU up?
    Do you believe YOU DESERVE this?
    Give yourself Hugss and More huggs!!

  238.  #238Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    Kath – 228 – Just as you cannot make someone change, you also can’t always get someone to hear you. You said what you needed to FOR YOU, and if it’s not received, that’s not on you.

    And you then remove yourself from the bad feeling situation.


  239.  #239Liquid Light on September 19, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Yeah, I gotta agree with others here, Kath. That guy sounds toxic. If it were me, I would kick his *** to the curb and not look back.

  240.  #240Ignis on September 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    Hi lovely sirens! I am just before work so just a quick update. I just relised reading your comments I finally feel I’m on a right path. Or I stayed on my bridge. I turned down rock cd because I’m not accepting crumbs and I’m not going to use him to forget about L. So what I pushed him with my neediness so what he is not here. I can feel so many things now but desperation is not one of them anymore. I’m making peace with myself. And this is all thanks to this place. Thank you from all my heart for sticking with me when even I didn’t want to stick with myself. Love.

  241.  #241Kath on September 19, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Thank you Sirens-I am so thankful or you and your advice. I had become angry and resentful towards him because he was constantly blaming me for everything and I felt indignant that he did that when I felt it was him who wasn’t bringing out the best in me. I see now that I have done that all my life- always looked to the other person to know where they have gone wrong and to admit it. I should love and respect myself more than I do. I should take myself out of the situation which I am learning to do. It was just that he kept being here-but he obviously doesn’t know what to do either. He says he is starting to hate me and I can see it in his face and hear it in his voice and it hurts so much. I find it so hard to cope with those feelings.

  242.  #242Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    HEEEEE’SSSS GOOOOONNNEEEE!!!!! He’s gone, he’s gone, he’s gone, he’s gone, he’s gone, he’s gone he’s gone! LADIES I feel ammmmmaaazzzziiiinnngggg! Absolutely amazing. I cannot stop smiling. Skipping dancing. It’s amazing. My house feels adorable. Everything is lovely and soft and quiet and beautiful and girly. I feel amazing! Just like that! Everything feels right again. I feel like me! He did just go in the end – ‘pleasantly’. Though I changed the locks anyway. My mum and dad took me out for dinner and on the way back my dad hugged my mum and she asked him why he was happy and he said he was happy that ‘Sophie’s back again’. So my vibe must have shifted literally just like that. Freedom.

    Kath – I probably have a lot I can say to you but I’m feeling too exhausted and out there right now but hugs. it will all be so okay.

    Everyone – thank you so much for all your support – hugs hugs hugs.

    What a feeling of elation! Did I say I feel amazing?! 🙂

  243.  #243Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Sophie – YAY!!! Awesome and feeling SO happy for you.


  244.  #244Kath on September 19, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Sophie- Soo pleased for you that is wonderful news my lovely siren!- I so long to be feeling the same as you xxx

  245.  #245Labbit on September 19, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    TenderCD and I are going to meet up on Monday evening to talk and have a dinner date. I feel about 100 different emotions right now.

  246.  #246Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Thank you Dominique 🙂 …now for the good stuff…

    Thank you Kath…you will…soon…I hope…and we can all support you until you do…love and strength to you…better days are on the way xxx


  247.  #247Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Azure Blu _ I feel happy and excited that you’re getting such good stuff from the coaches. I feel impressed at the value you have for yourself to seize these opportunites:)

    (((Ignis))) hooray!

  248.  #248Oshun on September 19, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Congrats, Sophie! I am so happy for you.

  249.  #249prplpsn28 on September 19, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    Yay Sophie! 🙂

  250.  #250Dominique on September 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Labbit – Are you okay? I’m around if you need me.


  251.  #251Kim on September 19, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Wow Sophie. Although I haven’t commented much, I read your story and feel so happy for you now. That bit of news made my day. Now it’s onwards and upwards for Sophie!

  252.  #252Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Yay!!! Yay!!! Yay!!! Yay!!! Yay!!! Yay!!!
    Girl!!! I am SOOOO Happy for YOU!!!
    Happy Days are here again,
    Love to you amazing brave Siren!!!
    Give Yourself BIG compassion and Congratulations

  253.  #253Azure Blu on September 19, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Labbitt… Huggs darling one….
    Can you name the emotions?

  254.  #254Kim on September 19, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    I also read with interests the posts about financial and man rescuing stuff and mirrors, Azure Blu and Annette.
    I, too, live on an absolute minimum and am still with the new part time job not going to be quite making my ends meet….and I never ever EVER had a man rescue me.
    There is a part of me who, when I see women who don’t work and don’t struggle, and their only problem seemingly is when to fit a hair or nail appointment into their non-busy days or which latest designer bag to buy, I feel down and envious and think to myself, if I had $600 to spend on a bag, I would still buy a $99 one and give the rest to charity or someone who was struggling…and I will never ever forget that there are people who scrape by.
    I want to go to the grocery store and just once pile up a cart with things I feel like eating, not the sale or special offer products. Just once.
    How that would feel.
    And yet, honestly, I did choose this. I love the little things, like a stunning sunset. I feel so proud of my little achiements like building a website, and writing a social media strategy for a small business that looks like it is getting me more work.
    I get a lot of satisfaction out of doing things myself, even if the achievements might be described as pitiful by ohers…I have friends that made $150k in 2014 already by not even working 40 hours a week.
    I try not to let that faze me and I am happy for them though sometimes it feels horrible having to mend my clothes when I would love to buy something new.
    I would love to be taken care of by a man and then I think, would I feel obligated? IDK.
    I guess the trick is to feel happy with what one has. A roof, meals and health..
    Though, if a man were not financially together, it would trigger me too…not so mich how much he earns but whether he can manage.
    I can manage on very little.
    I’d feel bad if a man couldn’t manage his finances and most likely it would not be a match for me.

  255.  #255Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Ahhh thank you everyone! I feel so elated – it’s amzing how dense someones energy can be. Kim – I feel great I made your day! I think this is the best day of my whole year! YES!!!! Onwards and upwards xxx

  256.  #256April Rose on September 19, 2014 at 2:49 pm


    I just popped by in time to read your news. Yippeee!!!
    How great to read that you have your environment back, all for YOU!!!

    I would open the window in the room he had, and waft his energy out! And do a dance in there. Hee heee.

  257.  #257Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    KIm – I guess for me it’s not necessarily that I want a man to take care of me completely. I wonder if I would feel obligated too. And I definitely need to be in my own world of meaning and creating and being of benefit to the world. It’s more that it might feel nice to have someone to share the finances with so it didn’t feel such a struggle – just all that stuff like its cheaper to live as a couple with bills and treats and holidays and all those things – BUT it certainly hasn’t worked out that way for me and I am more than happy to seek my own financial independence. I have the least means at the moment but I know I can grow them and actually I suspect that’s a large part of my journey.

    After all my fears around work and money and self worth and blahdy blah di blah I left my part time job today and they gave me a beautiful appreciative warm and generous card and a gift of £100!!! My mouth dropped. Today has been a very good day. And also one of those days where I really have to look at my perception of myself and my abilities in relation to other people’s perceptions of me and one in which I allow my self the chance to shine by not allowing men like B into my life again

  258.  #258Labbit on September 19, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Sophie – YAY YOU!!!

    Dominique 244 — Thank you, thank you, I am giving myself today to be in the soup but I will gladly take you up on your offer if I’m still soupy on Monday. 🙂

    Azure Blu 247 — Yes. Primarily I feel confused. I feel tentative, I feel a little self-righteous, I feel sexy and yet I also feel ugly. I feel frustrated with myself for not being able to ‘make this work’ without drama, yet I also feel compassion for myself because I’m still so new at learning how to FEEL my emotions.

    But I also see something I’ve never seen before. I see that I keep trying to fill myself up, over and over, with a man. I make it HIS JOB to make me feel happy and satisfied with my own life. And then I wonder why things break down. I can see very clearly where I should have spoken up with TenderCD instead of swallowing my feelings, no matter what the result. And I also see where I should have cut him a lot more slack instead of being so rigid in my ‘rules’. Maybe…FINALLY…I am getting the lesson that all the love and admiration I’ll ever need comes from within me. So anything I get from him or any man is a bonus, not the basis.

    Which means…I am NOT feeling anxious!! HOORAY FOR THIS. Good lord I hope I am over that hump.

    Kim 248 — You are so right on with what you say about not depending on a man. In terms of abundance, EVERYONE has a divine right to abundance. And no one else has to do without for us to have…and we don’t have to make do with less in one area of our lives to experience abundance in another area. I know this may sound woo-woo, but the Universe (or our Goddess within, however we want to think of it) WANTS us to have abundance in all ways. Believing we can have it is the first step and it’s also very close to the last step. 🙂

  259.  #259Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    250 -April Rose -absolutely the incense has been on and its all changed around and I have gone round every room in the house saying ‘this is MY kitchen, this is MY cooker, this is MY living room, this is MY hallway…all of it every single thing! I even sang some of it and did a lot of tra la la MY washing machine la la MY bathroom ha ha I have enjoyed myself. I feel very girly 🙂

  260.  #260Labbit on September 19, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    Indigo 208 — ((((HUGS)))) Yes, I know the feelings you are describing well. I’m glad to hear you’re working with Dominique, I recently did a week-long coaching session with her and it has helped me so much, I’m still feeling the positive reverbs this week.

  261.  #261April Rose on September 19, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    I feel inspired to do the same in my house 🙂

  262.  #262Kim on September 19, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    251 Sophie, totally relate to that!

  263.  #263Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    do it April Rose 🙂 I even lay down on the floor and did those snow angel moves (do you know what I mean? ha ha) MY FLOOR 🙂

  264.  #264Kim on September 19, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    In other news, I had a date with MoM yesterday that went really well. He’s been helping me a lot, printed out stuff for me, took me to a store to buy mason jars for my side business idea…which you are welcome to check out btw
    Hope the link is allowed? Don’t want to get into trouble…
    Anyhow, so since I totally stepped away from him and just became kind of removed and saw things in a more friendly yhan potential relationship way, I feel much more relaxed.

    The whole dynamic has changed.
    Somehow. Obviously, he is still himself, lol. Yesterday he brought up the m-word and I nearly choked on my martini.
    It was brought up in a joke about adopting a pet and me saying he could just adopt me – and he replied that he wouldn’t be able to marry me then, unless he was Woody Allen and that would be creepy.
    I was so shocked, I didn’t know what to say. So Insaid nothing, and then a very unsireny:
    ‘Well, at least I am not 30 years younger than you’.
    A very funny moment..

  265.  #265Kim on September 19, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    That from a man who basically goes into flat out cardiac arrest when he only hears the word marriage, or it least that’s how it used to feel to me…

  266.  #266Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Those salts look lovely Kim 🙂 really lovely. I LOVE the dynamic change. It just feels so exciting when you know you’ve shifted your vibe then you see a change in a man. Like alchemy 🙂

  267.  #267RileyTheOwl on September 19, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Yaayyy Sophie!!!!!
    I’m so so so happy glad and excited for you(:

  268.  #268Liquid Light on September 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    Kim, Labbit, Excited for you both! It seems like you both are experiencing shifting energies in your relationships. It is so awesome to read about here! I’m tingling with excitement for you both! Yay!!! This stuff works even if its terrifying at times! 😉

    Am feeling my own terror/anxiety with LHM. It seems like he might be singing a different tune or something. He was so excited and gung-ho about me at first. Now he’s out of contact and hasn’t set up another date. But it just adds to my cold feet of dating someone who is separated (and very newly so). I’ve never done it before and it is very nerve wracking! But it kinda seems like as soon as I was starting to step up and let my guard down, his guard went up! Typical. Ughh.

  269.  #269prplpsn28 on September 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Labbit 252…I can relate to the trying to fill myself up over and over with a man. I believe that’s what pushed H away 🙁 I am learning so much here tho.

  270.  #270Kim on September 19, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Sophie thank you 🙂
    Shame you are in the UK. I’d have sent you one for the new start, but it ‘s really crazy to ship out of the US.
    I lived in the UK for 17 years and miss it soooo much. Not the weather, mind 😉

    Thank you Liquid Light too.
    You know, this has totally been my experience. As soon as I relax into a relationship or dating, and start to feel comfy to initiate and let my ‘guard down’, i e get enthusiastic, they pull back. Kinda sucks but I think it’s the whole energy thing.
    Typically, as you focus on YOU they spring back into action.
    So so weird.

  271.  #271Kim on September 19, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    I always say and this has been true for me 100% recently. When I am happy with myself, the other stuff just flows, the man stuff. Suddenly, old CD’s contact me out of nowhere or guys show up everywhere and energy in a relationship shifts like magic.
    I now choose to completely concentrate on me when I feel things with men or a man are not going how I would like them. I get busy. Creative. Go out by myself. Watch a movie.
    I do no longer sit and sulk and concentrate on the negative like I used to. I think deep down that I enjoyed it.
    Staying in drama, lac, bad feelings, amd kept reinforcing it.
    Now I do feel the bad feelings, but I choose not to dwell on them, if I can.
    I get busy, even if it is just painting my nails.
    On that note…

  272.  #272Sophie on September 19, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    Thanks Kim 🙂 I shan’t be here for many weeks more anyway myself – chasing the sun too as, indeed, for the most part, the weather does suck ha x

  273.  #273Femininewoman on September 19, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    Kim I felt like leaning over and slapping you when I read “I love the little things”. Little????!!!!

    Really!! Those sound like huge big things to me. Those things you have done for yourself sound like great achievements.

  274.  #274Kim on September 19, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    FW….i love your tuff luv 🙂
    Thank you so much.
    Yes, I do need a ‘virtual’ slap sometimes 🙂
    By the small things, I mean also seeing a butterfly….a sunset and a sunrise….to many peoppe these are small and insignificant things.
    To me (us) they ARE the world.

  275.  #275Labbit on September 19, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    prplpsn28 263 — If you can see this lesson than you’ve already come so far!! I have watched over the past few weeks as your vibrance has shown through more and more…keep on loving yourself every way you can. Now that you know it’s up to YOU to fill you up…all these new possibilities open up for you! I’m very excited for you Siren. 🙂

    Have you read Infinite Possibilities by Mike Dooley? (I hope it’s OK to recommend books here.) I feel you’d get a lot of it…

  276.  #276prplpsn28 on September 19, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    Thank you Labbit 🙂 I love to read so I will definitely check out that book.

  277.  #277teresa on September 19, 2014 at 5:30 pm

    I think we should raise our glasses and thank Rori for this site. It is inspiring to know I can bare my heart and soul to each and eveyone of you. Thanks a million!!!!

  278.  #278teresa on September 19, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    Just checking in….thanks for your support and kind words in regards to my father. I can say without a doubt life is to short to worry about the small stuff. I cherish every moment I spend with him.
    ((((((((Huggs to all)))))))))

  279.  #279Labbit on September 19, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    Whoops, should say I feel you’d get a lot out of it — forgot a word there, my apologies!

  280.  #280Kim on September 19, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Teresa, I could not agree more with every word you said! Hugs to you!

  281.  #281Andrea on September 19, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Thank you all for the responses. And Linda for the questions.

    I dream of being very feminine in my life. Here’s the catch. I would love to be feminine and soft and sensual and in the moment. But I have a deep rooted fear of not being able to trust…. that masculine… either my own masculine energy or another human being’s masculine nature. I want to be more feminine and don’t trust the masculine to step up. So unbalanced and afraid.

    I take it out on the men I date, but really it’s my own “boy energy” that I don’t trust. Indecisive and scared to take action, I’d rather rest in my little girl energy and fearfully but stubbornly blame other people.

    I don’t know how to build up my masculine side when it is so against my natural inclination. And yet, I have set up my life in such a way that I have always been forced to manage on my own. Isn’t that strange?

    I’ve always kind of made an angry and resentful statement to the universe that… “Hmph.. I can do it by myself. I will not be forced into servitude or humility or any kind of abuse just in order to keep peace with someone who is helping me in my survival. Hmph.. screw you if you want me to do something I don’t want to do, if you threaten to with hold your.. whatever.. love, money, home, etc.. If I refuse to do your bidding. Hmph.”

    (Well, probably more therapy needed. I’m sure this is a left over of having been raised in a manner that left me excrutiatingly vulnerable to the man who was my pastor.)

    I want to be tenderly and lovingly considered. Tenderly and lovingly adored. Tenderly and lovingly matched. Tenderly and lovingly seen and heard.

    Is it possible that I am not able to be tender and loving toward myself? Is it possible that I’m angry at my boy energy? Is it possible that I have set up strict rigid terms for myself and, upon seeing my failure, count myself unworthy of tenderness and love?

    hmmmm I need to sit with this.

  282.  #282RileyTheOwl on September 19, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Ahhhhh I have my very first job interview tomorrow, I’m feeling soooo nervous and excited!!!
    I have no idea how to do this.

    Just be myself.

    Be confident.

    It’s at a place I really really want to work for, I really want this.


  283.  #283Zara on September 20, 2014 at 5:19 am

    Comment 88 by Kim, reminded me of Rori Raye’s own comment underneath one of her articles.

    => 1
    The copy-pasted article written by Rori Raye, October 2011

    If He Unfriends You On Facebook – Drop Him!

    Here’s a letter that actually made me feel hopping mad!

    “Hi Rori,

    I am feeling all stuck and screwed up again over this man – I’ll call him ‘J’.

    He came back again since last time. We had another batch of seeing each other. This time I didn’t sleep with him and I stayed leaned back. Last week he mailed me and asked to see me. I said ‘It would feel GREAT to see you and I don’t feel good accepting dates without a time and confirmed plan.

    There was no response.

    This week he has ‘unfriended’ me on Facebook.

    I think it is because at my birthday party (a few weeks ago) I let another man dance with me (and he also kissed me briefly when we were alone). Then ‘J’ kinda stepped in and ‘claimed’ me. Bear in mind before the party I had not seen J for about a month and he was not stepping up at my party either. Of course I don’t KNOW this is the reason… it is likely though.

    I feel so confused.

    I mean I had come to terms with that he may not step up but this (being unfriended) really cuts!

    So what do I do here? Do I message him and ask him ‘Hey you have unfriended me, how come?’ or do I just stay leaned back and not do anything?

    I also feel guilty about kissing his friend.

    Thanks as Ever Rori.


    My Answer:

    Ruthie – I so rarely give such firm advice – DROP THIS MAN LIKE A COLD POTATO!!!! NOW.

    Whyever you feel the need to have anything to do with him – it’s about YOU punishing YOU.

    Get away from him and start online dating like mad…give it a bigger push than you have been.

    Do NOT ask him anything!!!

    Unfriending you is about the stupidest, most immature, unmanly thing a guy can do. Drop him!!!

    Sincerely, Rori Raye”


    I don’t know why J was at Ruthie’s party, and I know that I’ve kissed more than one man at a party and thought – looking back especially – that it was pretty cool, but this facebook thing is way over the top for me.

    It’s like high school.

    The whole thing about relationships is this: Intimacy is not natural, not now, not with the way our experiences and society has made us think.

    So – every step we take toward intimacy is going to feel wrong.

    Unsafe and wrong. UNTIL…we DO it! And it FEELS GOOD!!!

    It’s our job to overturn those ideas about what’s right and wrong and learn to TALK to a man. To SHARE ourselves with every man around in the most authentic, lovely way possible.

    If you can’t talk, you can’t be intimate.

    A man who uses facebook to shut you out is a man who can’t talk. It’s like the bad father who slams the door on you.

    Get rid of any man who shuts you out. Period.

    Love, Rori

  284.  #284Zara on September 20, 2014 at 5:21 am

    => 2
    Comments copy-pasted from under the article
    “If He Unfriends You On Facebook – Drop Him!”

    => VW says:

    Rori, Wow…

    Now, what does that makes of me? I deleted two guys who I dated and befriended me on Fb; Initially, i accepted, later to notice…i felt awkward to have them on my page…and more so…i noticed feeling tempted to look at their page and triggered finding out things i was not interested in knowing…:(

    Am i acting like a high-school “cheerleader” to?

    warm hugs

    Monday, 24 October 2011 7:35am

    =>sammie sighs says:

    VW that puts a bit of percpective on it I unfriended my ex as it too hurt too much to see him hmmmmm…

    Monday, 24 October 2011 7:48am

    =>mali says:

    I was in tears reading this, because I yesterday unfriended a man who has been really good to me, but I can feel myself getting attached; I didn’t even want to see his name, it’s important to me that I “move on” so to speak, or transfer that focus on myself.

    I believe that if you feel better not having them on your page, that’s what is right for you. It is our job to receive, so to have a man who has been chasing a woman suddenly “unfriend” her, that really is immature. I’m not sure I make much sense…

    Monday, 24 October 2011 7:51am

    => VW says:

    Hmm…i feel fear building up as i am contemplating sharing my thoughts /dilemmas…

    I think what goes for the goose should go for the geese…this dude has the right to delete whoever…

    When this happens to me, for example, the answer is not in asking anybody what u should do, but work through your own feelings…

    Yes, it feels bad…it sucks…it hurts…
    Everytime my mind switches to my left side and tries to “think” why it happened and what did i do…gentle bring it back…to my heart…unzip it…feel it…and stay still…

    Hmm…i feel a bit judgmental this morning twds Roothie who is supposedly an experienced Siren…:( I noticed a lot of “crises” and “poor me”…”what should i do?” and “rescue me” stories …:(…thank u…thank u…more healing for me on this…

    Monday, 24 October 2011 7:57am

    mali says:

    I think the reason Rori has given such firm advice is because he withdrew intimacy by way of the internet. But ofcourse, we don’t know his thoughts or intentions… I’m not sure.

    But I know that it is my job to look after me, to take care of me when I feel sad.

    Unfriending this man was an act of loving me.

    In fact, I will paste the post I wrote on the previous thread here:

    {It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but I wanted to share something with you Sirens.

    For the past three years, I’ve known a guy, let’s call him Alex.
    He lives about two hours away from me, and we’re both busy studying.
    He’s always been a complete gentleman to me, taken care of me when I’ve seen him, and I’ve just felt so GOOD and sireny around him.
    The thing is, we don’t maintain much contact, and we don’t see each other much either. He treats me so well when I see him, and he’s eager to see me whenever I’m in his hometown, however at times he forgets or doesn’t get back to me about meeting up.
    I sense sincerity on his part, especially when he messages me, offering a hug, or words of comfort and advice when he sees statuses of mine on facebook as feeling sad or hurt, and I truly appreciate it.

    However, after three years, a part of me *still* likes him. I know that, considering our history of communication and meeting up, I need to try and let this go. He’s a good man, but I know that the repeated “getting stuck” on him when I do see him, and the wondering of what ifs isn’t doing me any good.

    So I’ve deleted him from my facebook account and all other IM applications.
    The only way of communication is thru my number. I’m sure that at somepoint he will ask me why I deleted him, and when that time comes, this will be my speech:

    “I feel really vulnerable saying this to you, and scared. It is so important to keep myself happy and to look after myself. I think you’re a wonderful man, and over time I began to develop feelings for you. That scared me. I’ve loved seeing you, and I’ve felt so good around you, but I know what it is that I’m looking for, and this isn’t it for me.”

    Any thoughts on the above, my lovely Goddesses? =) }

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:04am

    =>VW says:


    I believe when we give everyone permission to be and do what they please…without labeling them as “immature”, childish, for example, we also free ourselves to be who we are and do what we need to do to feel good…without feeling guilty…

    To avoid labeling, feeling messages is the venue to our heart…and out of someone else’s business…

    There have been men and women who deleted me for their own reason(s)…i felt sad about it…but i bless them in their journey…

    warm hugs,

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:06am

    =>mali says:

    Thank you, and I agree. I felt smiley reading your post, as I try and do the same.

    Thank you for your calm, wise words =)

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:09am

    =>Daria says:

    I think it’s totally different if a woman unfriends a man, than if a man unfriends a woman.


    can i get bigger caps on that?

    If a man does it, he’s Not doing his job of pursuing. it’s like he’s leaning back and Showing me (not like not calling, this is actually visible to me that he’s unfriended me). It’s like he’s purposely choosing to make me feel bad. NOT a MANLY MOVE

    on the other hand, me unfriending a man … is not a manly move either… and i’m not a man. I might do it anytime. A pursuing, step up man will contact me some other way and ask me about it, or not, but he will continue pursuing. Women step back all the time – it’s what Women do.

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:09am

    => VW says:

    Wow, thank u for sharing this story…:) yes, indeed u haven’t post it for a while…

    u said : “I feel really vulnerable saying this to you, and scared. It is so important to keep myself happy and to look after myself. I think you’re a wonderful man, and over time I began to develop feelings for you. That scared me. I’ve loved seeing you, and I’ve felt so good around you, but I know what it is that I’m looking for, and this isn’t it for me.”

    Wow Mali! I love it…it feels soo authentic, soft, feminine, warm….just like u Awesome!!!!

    warm hugs,

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:10am

    => Rori Raye says:

    ooo VW – I LOVE this – Thank you so much for this lovely comment about not-labeling….Rori

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:48am

    => VW says:

    Aww Rori, well, I’ve had a great mentor…Rori Raye u mention about not labeling in many of your programs.. 🙂

    warm hugs,

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:51am

    => Rori Raye says:

    mali – your unfriending this man was a sensationally terrific, thoughtful cutting off of this most public way of contact…and brava to you!!!
    You are, in a sense, ending this relationship, this friendship because you do not feel comfortable with this man at the level of “friendship” he offers.

    Many FB friends are simply that – FB friends. They are in our lives only through FB.
    Many are family…and they have no requirements except that they are family.

    Weeding out your FB list and choosing only those with whom you wish to maintain emotionally intimate friendships (this means you NEVER friend a man you are dating unless he’s your boyfriend…and if that ends, and he does not become your husband…you can choose to unfriend him. If FB is your “inner circle” (and not just “friends of friends”…) then you must be vigilant about being happy sharing with whoever’s on your list. If you’re not, consider deleting them from your list is the way to go. (I love your speech, by the way.)

    On the other hand, if a man friends you, for whatever reason and then unfriends you, that’s it. Over, done.
    If you’re longtime “friends” and you care about him, you can ask him about it…but to me, it’s done.
    I personally consider that a very violent act on his part, and very different from your careful reasoning… Men are not women, to me. If a man walks away – he’s walked away. He’s not to be chased, not to be missed.
    Very different from what I see a man doing should a woman walk away because the man hasn’t shown sufficient interest. That’s my view, at least.

    Monday, 24 October 2011 8:59am

    => mali says:

    VW: Thank you, beautiful soul. I felt so treasured and so beautiful reading that. I’m so feeling the love!

    Rori: I’m so honoured to get a response from you, and your support feels so GOOD to read. Feeling fabulous! Thankyou for your wise words and clarity, dear Siren of all Sirens!

    Monday, 24 October 2011 10:27am

  285.  #285Indigo on September 20, 2014 at 7:05 am




  286.  #286Indigo on September 20, 2014 at 7:13 am

    Labbit 254

    Thank you for the hugs xx

  287.  #287Indigo on September 20, 2014 at 7:16 am

    Kim 258 & 259,


    D is the same. And the other day he said to me “if you and I were married…”

  288.  #288Indigo on September 20, 2014 at 7:18 am

    Kim 265,

    I LOVE this. Such a great reminder.

  289.  #289Oshun on September 20, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Good morning, sirens.

    Reading comments here have inspired me lately. Inspired me to journal, get my true feelings out. The comment that included a man shutting out a woman through Facebook. It brought some things up and made me realize I have to have a man that can talk. I mean talk deeply and with purpose. But not only talk but can match his words with his actions. The last guy I dated had nice words but waiting for actions to match was like being in a desert waiting for water.

    I feel like this is therapeutic… being on thw blog. And even thought some guys may not make it to the first date. Lol I’m not a man-eater but just getting closer to my dream.

    Happy Saturday beauties. I hope you all have an awesome day.

  290.  #290Violette on September 20, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Just got a text from AD, saying he misses me very much and I’m beautiful and he will call me later.

    We went out last night with a gay couple who are friends with him, to a nice dinner. It felt so nice to be like a couple. Felt warm. Delicious.

    But, at dinner he said, “I am going to buy a condo.” Last time he mentioned it he had looked at one and was thinking about it. Now he’s openly talking about it.

    It really makes my stomach turn. Here he is talking about giving me everything I want, marrying me, being soulmates, travelling the world together, and he’s buying a condo that has nothing to do with me. I feel awful. Is all of it a lie?

    How do I not fall in love with someone who is showing up so consistently and sweetly in my life, who buys me flowers almost every time I see him, who says nothing but sweet supportive things to me…and then, isn’t including me in his future home?!

    My mom’s friend came over to tea yesterday, I’d mentioned that I’d been seeing him like a month and a half, that he was recently divorced, single for 2 years now. Her firs comment was, oh no rebound! Don’t sleep with him. Don’t make him important in your life yet, you need to be focused on your work right now.

    I feel sick here. I feel myself feeling things for him I haven’t felt since my big relationship 5 years ago that changed my life forever. I haven’t had a job in my chosen field since then. That relationship wiped me out, because I really let myself go for it with him, and I couldn’t handle it when he changed on me out of the blue. When he turned out to not be a good guy after all.

    Also I can feel the sexual tension, I want to sleep with him soon. I don’t know where to go from here, what to do from here. I feel frightened it’s a mistake to trust him.

  291.  #291Azure Blu on September 20, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    You have only been dating this guy one month and half…
    This is MY opinion… The condo isn’t any of your business…
    How great to hear from him that he is looking for marriage, rest of his life relationship and it might be YOU….
    But how do YOU know if HE’S for YOU?…until YOU get to know HIM better?
    Slow down… He is showing up in alll the right ways…
    Stay grounded and find out
    WHO HE is…

  292.  #292Azure Blu on September 20, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Start practicing FM…
    Leaning Back…
    LOVING YOU… learning why YOU feel frightened…
    Loving You feeling Frightened
    Learning how to trust YOU first…
    Before YOU can ever trust a man…

    Here is a GREAT post Dominique wrote…

  293.  #293Azure Blu on September 20, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    ((Oshun)) #283
    I feel happy that you find Siren Island therapeutic!!
    ME too…. :->
    NO YOU are NOT a man-eater…
    YES YOU are getting closer to YOUR dream!!!
    Enjoy your day Gentle Siren

  294.  #294prplpsn28 on September 20, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Thought I was doing good. The last couple of days…not so much. Been afraid of seeing his car, seeing him or running into him anytime I’m out. I feel like I’m actually looking for his car and truck. And I did see his truck just a bit ago when I was out with my kids. Ugh! 🙁

  295.  #295teresa on September 20, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    Hang in there….I know it is not easy. I always feel like I take two steps forward and 10 back. Feel your feelings and remember life is to short to worry about him.

  296.  #296Kyla on September 20, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    CONGRATULATIONS SOPHIE!!!!!! I feel so happy for you!

  297.  #297Oshun on September 20, 2014 at 5:49 pm


    Azure’s response is great. Too often we worry about are they including us in their lives, how they view us, etc. Lean back and see if he is what YOU want. He sounds great. Indulge in that greatness and let your focus be on you.

  298.  #298Indigo on September 20, 2014 at 11:27 pm


    I agree with Azure Blu, and it was my first thought when I read your post. You are still getting to know each other – a month and a half is hardly any time at all, MUCH too soon for him to be including you in his property purchasing plans, MUCH too soon.

    Why not go inside and see what that fearful feeling is really all about?


  299.  #299Rori Raye on September 21, 2014 at 10:12 am

    L – please go to my coach trainees and get some free help – you can talk to EVERY IONE of them (once) for free if you like – and if you find one (you will, quickly) who works for you – it will be affordable for you – truly – they are under fee constraints until they graduate….go here: blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/free-coaching-with-my-new-rori-raye-coach-trainees/

    Love, Rori

  300.  #300teresa on September 21, 2014 at 11:50 am

    I read what you sent to me. How can I get in touch with you.

  301.  #301Dominique on September 21, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Teresa – there is a contact form on my website which clicking
    on my name will take you to, or you can go directly to my email – dominique@sexandheart.com xxoo

  302.  #302Valarie O'Ryan on September 21, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Lee O’Keefe (77), “How do you start to employ these techniques, successfully, when you’ve agreed on a break (might be more his idea) and you’re going to have a conversation, soon, to discuss the ‘future’? Thanks!”

    This is a great question! And it’s a crucial time to start putting into practice the tools you’ve learned. It’s absolutely vital, when he’s asked for a “break,” for you to give him “warmth & distance.”

    That means giving him the space he’s asked for while being an open, warm invitation that he’s compelled to come towards.

    You do this by removing your energy from him & placing it on YOU. Start doing things that fill you up & make you feel good. Don’t try to contact him at all, but be warm & responsive when he reaches out to you.

    Use feeling messages, “It feels so good to talk to you.”

    This is the time when it’s really easy to push a man further away because we sort of drop into panic mode & start doing everything we can to “fix” it. It’s what we’ve been taught.

    Opening up space for him, pouring love on yourself, & being receptive when he reaches out is what will really create attraction.

    It feels like the opposite of what we should do. And kind of scary too, yet works like a charm – sort of liking casting a spell over him because we’re not really “doing” anything. It’s almost too easy to feel effective!

    I’m happy to help if you have any questions. I was the queen of “trying to fix it.”

    Love, ~Valarie

  303.  #303Valarie O'Ryan on September 21, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Oh, also, Lee – it’s really important when you have the discussion “about the future” to express how you feel & what you want without blaming him or demanding that he be or do anything.

    It might look like, “I feel so good when I’m with you & I need xyz to feel safe & happy in a relationship. What do you think?”

    Start with something that feels good & then go into what you need and ask his opinion. It’s a good template to use.

    Love, ~Valarie

  304.  #304Liquid Light on September 21, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    I think its so important that the man proves his worth. We as women are so quick to fall for a man that we don’t bother to properly vet him. We ignore the signs because we don’t want to see them as we only want to see the good things. Then those “little” things that we’ve ignored come back and bite us later when they turn into giant huge things and the guy ends up being a giant douche. The thing is that he probably showed you that he was a giant douche almost from the beginning but we failed to see it. But at least its been my experience that the signs in one form or another are there usually from the very beginning. I’m finally seeing that so clearly with my ex. And that clarity feels great because I know I won’t fall for that crap again. No matter how good looking, charming, funny, successful he is, if he’s douche underneath it all, it doesn’t matter. Its time to move on. Sorry for the negativity but I really think we as women need to raise our standards and demand the best and when we come across a man (let’s face it most men) who don’t have much to offer, we move on. That’s the only way these men will learn that all the poor pathetic behavior just won’t fly.

  305.  #305teresa on September 21, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Liquid Light….

    I think we call this “settling”.

  306.  #306Azure Blu on September 21, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    LL #304…
    You have some Great points!!!

    What I have realized from doing, learning and practicing the Rori tools…
    I can see behavior in men that doesn’t work for me, fairly quickly now!!! Yay!!!
    Even in the way they interact when messaging
    in online dating, when talking on the phone
    before we ever meet…
    So lovely to use feeling messages, ask the right questions and “MOVE ON” if the man doesn’t
    seem to be the right fit …
    As I become stronger on the inside… I can share
    my boundaries fairly early and the men
    usually step up… but if they don’t it’s ok…
    They are NOT ready to be MY Mr. Right

  307.  #307Liquid Light on September 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Yeah, I hear you Azure.

    The question I’m asking is do I even want them if they “step up”? It’s really about them proving to me they are worthy in the first place.

    I met someone today at the grocery store. He was sitting having coffee and waved at me. I got my courage up and said hello back and we talked a bit. But it became clear to me very quickly that he is like so many men that I meet, kinda doing this and that and doesn’t really have much going on professionally. No ambition, no drive. I’m just not interested in that type of man and its not worth my time to carry on anything beyond a brief polite conversation with a man like that. So I excused myself and went on my merry way. These are par for the course in terms of the men that I often encounter. And the dialog I hear here and often from women is that we should give anyone a shot, that they all men are worth our time, and who know they might be a really nice guy underneath the rough exterior or something. As if that should be enough and we should be happy with that. And quite frankly, I don’t buy it. I want a great guy and I’m realizing that the only way that I will find a man like that is if I have high standards and stick to them. I feel like giving anyone a shot (like that “nice” guy I met today in the grocery store) is undermining that a bit.

  308.  #308Azure Blu on September 21, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    I agree darling Siren…

    I can figure out quite quickly and don’t want to take anymore of my time or his, if I am not of the impression they fit into at least some of my dream of MR. Right..
    And then of course… I get to practice…
    leaning back, feeling messages, listening carefully
    discovering triggers and where that might lead…
    Since the Rori’s tools (and this amazing blog) I can stay on my bridge and living MY life
    and when a wonderful man decides he wants to join me… THat will be the icing on the cake!!!

  309.  #309Liquid Light on September 21, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    YUP, Azure, I’m starting to think the pickier we are, the better results we will see…