What To Say To Him When…

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questionmarkHere’s what I consider a great, in-depth answer to when to tell a man you have a “secret” of any kind – and this particular one is about STD’s:

Dana’s* secret: “I have an STD.”
When Dana, 39, of Brooklyn, NY was diagnosed with genital herpes, she was convinced her dating days were over-she felt completely alone.

But in truth, her situation was far from unique: One out of five people have this sexually transmitted disease.

Gradually, Dana’s self-confidence rebounded after her diagnosis, and treatments curbed her symptoms (she hasn’t had an outbreak in over ten years).

But one big issue remained: Dates rarely reacted well when she shared her news. “I used to tell guys on the first date, which was way too soon,” she recalls.

“Most guys would just get this repulsed look on their face and never call me again.” After a few years of the tell-all policy, Dana started waiting until she and a guy were a little more serious to spill the beans.

“I remember telling one guy after we were making out on my bed,” she says. “He just rolled over and said, ‘Why does nothing ever work out for me?’ He made it all about him, and I just felt like a leper.”

How to break the news to a date
When to tell: Since herpes could affect the health of your partner, it’s crucial that you tell him before you’ve had any genital-to-genital or oral-genital contact (even with condoms, since there’s still a slight chance of transmission), says Brennan Ames-Phares, a health communication specialist at the National Herpes Hotline.

But that said, many herpes sufferers opt to tell dates right away, as Dana often did.

Ames-Phares advises against the first-date confessional: “There’s no need for him to know unless there’s a risk of exposure,” she says. “Waiting allows you to build more of a connection, so you won’t be rejected right away.”

What to say: “A lot of times I would just blurt out, ‘I have herpes,’” Dana says. “That didn’t work so well.”

Instead, Ames-Phares recommends saying, “I really like you and would like to take this further, but before we do so I’d like to talk about our sexual histories.”

Ask your date if he or she has ever been tested for AIDS or STDs, and if not, encourage him or her to do so. (Case in point: 90 percent of people with herpes are unaware they have it.)

This approach shows that you’re serious about your health — and your date’s — which will soften the blow when you say, “As for me, ten years ago I was diagnosed with herpes.”

Your date may be a little scared when he hears this, but explaining how you felt when you found out you had it and how you’ve dealt with it since will help him better relate to what you’re going through and see how well you’re managing your health.

How to deal if your date freaks: Allay your date’s fears by keeping these comforting facts on hand: Herpes is highly treatable. “Herpes today is much more manageable than having it 20 years ago,” says Ames-Phares. Thanks to new medications, outbreaks can occur infrequently and less severely.

More good news: Recent studies have shown low transmission rates among couples in which one partner has herpes—less than 2 percent if condoms are used at least half of the time.

Dana now vows to be more prepared the next time she ’fesses up. “Herpes really hasn’t had much of an effect on my daily life, and from now on I’ll make a point of letting dates know that,” she says. “I figure the more they learn, the less leery they’ll be about dating me.”

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 15, 2014 at 6:23 am

    Tough situation

  2.  #2Femininewoman on May 15, 2014 at 7:12 am

    1) Men do not expect sex from women.

    Quality men have very little expectation on what will happen when dinner is over – regardless of who’s paying the bill.

    Women have the final say on whether or not a date will continue into the bedroom and men are not paying for dinner with sole purpose of getting you into bed. For guys, they think it would be nice if it happens. Truth be told, men consider themselves lucky if sex happens and it’s not at the top of their agenda. Men are clear it’s up to the woman and what she wants – not what HE wants in the sex department.

    What is at the top of a man’s agenda is making sure you’re having a good time and that he’s making a good impression. Do men want sex – sure! But so do women! A man only wants to have sex with a woman who wants it too – not because he paid the bill and you feel obligated.

    When a man asks you out on a date, not only is he anticipating paying the bill, he’s only going to take you to a restaurant he can afford in the first place.

    The only thing he’s expecting in return is your appreciation for whatever he produces for you on the date. Period.


  3.  #3Iris on May 15, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Well said, FW!

  4.  #4Tereana on May 15, 2014 at 10:02 am

    I agree with the advice in this column – a good lead-in is to ask your date if they’ve been tested! STIs are pretty common so there is an actual chance that he might have something. And if you frame it as a concern for your health as well as your partner’s, that’s more positive

  5.  #5Azure Blu on May 15, 2014 at 11:36 am

    Tereana #4!!!
    Wow… I like this a lot!

  6.  #6Linda on May 15, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    I read here pretty often. I learn so much from everyone’s journeys as things are shared here.

    I feel at a standstill. Since my breakup last year I just feel disinterested in looking for love. I used to feel so driven to find it. Now I almost feel pretty complacent about it. I am like “mehh with an added lifted eyebrow and shoulder shrug”. Deep in my core I still wish to share my life with someone.

    Over the last few months of my chosen singleness I have sifted thru lots of my stuff. I have had some great “ahhha” moments. One of the biggest was when I posted about being sooo mad at the man I broke things off with a few weeks back. He text me ranting about me having a profile up (which I didnt and dont as per my choice right now). Something FW said in response to my post grabbed my total attention. It was something like.. It seems obvious that this man loves you and drama will likely continue as long as I engage in it.

    I stopped being mad I realized that this man was totally still in love with me. I started wondering if there was a way that it could genuinely be turned around or transformed into an all around “good for me relationship”. I freely admit that I kept silent lists and did not have open lips . In other words I was keeping close track of how I felt but not sharing it. Good or bad. I feel so aware of how detrimental that was.

    Since then I have been digging in trying to expand my “feeling vocabulary” and have been practicing on everybody. Using feeling messages as often as I can. I still really suck at it but I am baby stepping it right now. I have been trying to notice when others reveal themselves thru feeling messages. They are few and far and between really. I feel inspired to practice and see what happens.

    I have had a couple interactions with him recently. (he contacts me periodically). I practiced some feeling messges. I listened to for his too. It was enlightening to say the least. I have no expecations or desire to be in any kind of relationship like I had… however as I explore this speaking feeling world I have to wonder what it with birth in my life. Curiosity is calling me forward.

  7.  #7Helena Hart on May 15, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    Linda – 6 – I loved reading about your experience with feeling messages and learning how to start sharing how you feel.

    If it feels unnatural now, you’ll find that it gets much easier with practice! When I was first starting out, even saying something simple like “I feel happy…” was very hard for me.

    I found that starting with baby steps and practicing opening up in small ways helped a LOT. Eventually sharing how I feel became like second nature. Looking forward to hearing how it goes for you!

    Love, Helena

  8.  #8Azure Blu on May 15, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    Linda #6
    I agree with Helena>
    How vulnerable you are to share your lovely, soft steps
    about how you are opening up to others
    with your Felling Messages..
    How VERY brave to show YOURSELF this LOVE by
    Yes, this is ME
    Yes, this is who I AM
    Rori Says:
    “The trick for us is to get so “aware” of our emotions – the patterns of them, what triggers them, how they morph and change and shift, and how it feels to not so much “manage” them as “feel” them.
    And as that awareness grows –
    so does your faith in YOURSELF.
    In other words – your self-esteem and
    self-respect can grow powerfully
    as you become aware of,
    accept, love and express your emotions on deeper and deeper levels.
    When you speak the word “feel”
    and use it as a channel to
    express what you feel –
    you’re working on “all burners.”

    1. Becoming aware of what you feel

    2. Putting words to what you feel

    3. Expressing what you feel in a way that involves no one but you –
    and so is totally, 100% safety-making,
    self-trusting, world and man-trusting,
    self, world and man honoring…
    and profoundly moving in the classical, artistic sense.”

  9.  #9Tereana on May 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    So….guess what? I have a verdict, from a credible source. Diagnosis: Not Crazy. In fact, that’s a new working title for my book. Lol. My book, which is only 1/3-1/2 written. If I wrote as much in the book as I do on the blog I would have like there books now. Lol. I think I’ve just made it into a “project.” It become “work.” So when I sit down to write it, I’m “working” instead of playing, having fun, expressing myself, and telling a story that could help people. Or at least give them something to read on the subway…

    Anyway. It doesn’t mean I don’t need therapy or support. What it means is, I’m not “crazy,” and S was way off, as I thought. But still, I had to check. After all, I get gaslighted at home and experience other unpredictability in my family. So sometimes I do feel “crazy.” But the reality is probably more that I’ve mostly been a sane and together person trying to survive in a “crazy” environment. And that’s crazymaking. But I’m going to get skillz. I’m going to get mad skillz. And then I’m going to kick some buttz. Yeah.

  10.  #10Cupcake on May 15, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    Hi, Sirens,

    I’m feeling confused about a relationship with a guy friend, and I want to write about it.

    He’s a wonderful, really nice guy who shares a common interest I have. So I see him when we’ve participated in events around the interest.

    He’s married. His wife doesn’t share his interest in this hobby.

    When I first met him, he said that he would bring his wife the next time, so I could meet her and then we could all hang out. Except she didn’t come to that event, or the next one. Eventually, we stopped talking about how I was going to get to meet his wife.

    He’s always been perfectly appropriate. Except…

    There’s this sexual energy that bounces all around us. When we talk, he impulsively touches my arm, etc.

    If he were single, I would LOVE to date him. But he’s not single, and I don’t want to clutter up my life with something that isn’t going to go anywhere.

    As you may recall, I had left New City and then came back to have a second interview for a job that has since been offered to me. So we had said goodbyes and then last week he texted me that he was still thinking about a conversation we’d had about something. Then I told him I was actually back in New City, and he said, “Great! I’ll see you at the XYZ event tomorrow!”

    This is where it gets fuzzy in my head. We went out after the event, just the two of us. For various reasons, he suggested that I leave before him and then we’d link up afterwards. (He had to stay and talk with someone, and I got the feeling he wanted to have it just be the two of us going out, because he could easily have invited the third person to join us afterwards. Then again, I can’t say for certain that he DIDN’t invite that person to join us.

    At the bar, though, he kept leaning so far forward that he was practically resting his chest on the table, his arm stretched out across the table to rest next to my hand, which was cupping the edge of the table closest to me. I kept leaning further back to see what would happen, and he kept leaning forward.

    Then he said he had to go, and suggested that he walk me to my car. Then asked if I could drive him to his car. And when we pulled up behind his car, he turned to me and smiled and said, “I’m really so very glad that you’re here in New City after all.” He put his arms around me and hugged me. He held me close.

    There was nothing sexual about the hug. It could have been completely brotherly.

    It just hung there, that hug.

    And then I nipped him playfully on the ear with my teeth, and he pulled back and gave me a surprised look that I interpreted to be, “Why, you little minx!”

    He grabbed my thigh in a sort of, “Oh, you!!” way and then jumped out of the car, laughing. When I drove away, he was standing on the curb laughing, shaking his head.

    So the tricky part is— I want to be his friend. I really like him. He’s a really cool person. I wanted to say something before I left, but then it seemed pointless since I was leaving.

    It was funny because when I was waiting for him the other night in the car, I logged into the blog on my phone, and there was Andrea’s message to IamHis saying, “Why do you think this married guy is into you? If he’s not calling you, asking you out– He’s not that into you and it’s just in your head.”

    I sat in my car and laughed, because this guy hasn’t done ANYTHING inappropriate. I don’t think he wants to be the guy who cheats on his wife.

    Except he hasn’t mentioned the wife to me once since the second month I knew him. I mean I’ve probably seen him 10 times since then, without her name being mentioned, or any reference to her existence. Including once when we met for drinks, just the two of us, with prior arrangement, and he took us too a VERY public spot and sat us right in the doorway so there was every effort to be “just two friends meeting up for a quick drink at happy hour” – Which I appreciated. Still no mention of the wife, though.

    So my puzzle is… Do I say something to him like, “It feels weird that you never mention your wife”?

    Something has to happen. If it goes on this way, with nothing being said, it WILL eventually become an affair. Maybe technically it already is, if there are secrets around it.

    I guess I feel puzzled because if I were not attracted to him, or if I had any interesting CD’s on the horizon, I’d say, “You know, I would really like to meet your wife so we can all be friends.”

    Except I AM attracted to him. And even though from the waist up I don’t want to have an affair with him, from the waist down…oh my, yes, yes I do.

    It would just get messy and probably ruin the friendship. Although I was thinking last night that if we were in any country OTHER than the USA, we could probably have sex once, get the tension and curiosity done with, and go on to just be better friends. But here, if we had an affair, it would be a defining moment: I’m the homewrecker coveting someone else’s man, and he’s an adulterer.

    I wanted to say something the other night, like, “I feel confused about what this IS.” Except I felt like I would be stirring a pot that I didn’t want to stir, for some reason.

    I really am flummoxed. It’s probably just because I want sex and he’s the only man I’ve met that I’ve been attracted to, other than my 21 year old downstairs neighbor who I would totally shag except I haven’t run into him in a while. (And that would be easy, because it would clearly just be a workout buddy thing. Although complicated because he lives in my building.)

    Let’s call the one guy Married Guy and the 21 year old neighbor the Tasty Morsel.

    And before you ask, no I’m not actively CDing. I just got back into town, and I have only mostly seen guys in my building who are “Eeeeeewwwwww!!!!!” guys– and by that I mean toothless, in the apartment on homeless program vouchers, and active heroin addicts. (There are actually three attractive, cool hipster guys in the building too, but since they work, it’s the wastrels who are sitting on the front porch chatting me up every time I come or go, walking the dog or going to the gym.) And this is a city full of very attractive men, just NOT ONLINE. Trust me. I have made a pledge to just meet men in real life, because the oinkers on OKC were making me feel utterly demoralized.

    I’m scheduled to start the job next week, and once I have a job to go to, I will be literally and figuratively in a better “neighborhood” for meeting cool people.

    Anyway. What do you think? Should I call a spade a spade with Married Guy and say, “Am I gonna meet your wife, or what?” Or “I feel like there’s a weird line we’re walking here, and I don’t know what it is. What do you think?”

    Thanks for listening.


  11.  #11Cupcake on May 15, 2014 at 6:51 pm

    Oh– in case it wasn’t clear in the above post– The reason that I bit his ear was that the hug— was waaaay long. I mean he just HELD me. It wasn’t a “Great to see you!” quickie hug. He was holding me for a long time, and finally I just thought, “This has to end, one way or another.” And discovered that I was clipping his earlobe quickly with my teeth as I pulled back from him.

  12.  #12Tereana on May 15, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    So funny. I’m getting some attention on the dating site. Lol. And I’ve just started texting again with an old CD, H. He hasc actually called me for advice a while back. We were dating other people at the time, but now we’ve both broken up with our “people.” He said he misses me. He’s an emotional guy. He might actually miss me. Even though it’s been literally years since we saw each other.

    And then tonight, I went to a music show of music that seemed interesting to me, and met a man there. He seems older, though I did not ask his age. He’s not married. From what I can tell, he hasn’t been or at least doesn’t have kids. He’s a dentist. I admired his free-spiritedness and enthusiasm at the show. He’s Pakistani, so not Indian. But close. Lol. Visually, I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. He walked me to the train, which was quite nice. I asked if he wanted to, and he said he didn’t want to make me nervous. I confessed that I would feel better with an escort. And it felt honest to say it and I was not ashamed at all. It was a very nice night. Pleasant temperature and just a little humidity.

    There was this drunk woman outside the train station, crying to her friend about her boyfriend. It looked like a mess. Lol

    So that’s my night. I have trouble getting through the day at times, but then I usually feel better by the afternoon.

    The landlord at the apartment made me a very nice offer. It’s such a beautiful place. I hate to pass it up but I might have to. There will be something else. I just don’t want to be overconfident in my ability to afford something like that. I would rather be sure. I mean, yes, sometimes you can take a leap of faith. But only if I had the personal resources to write the move-in check myself. Since I don’t, and if have to borrow money to move in, and then just *hope* that it works out, it’s probably not the best fiscal move on my part. I should keep looking for $600 rooms. Live the low life for a while. Get myself into a better place. Then I can have nice digs and whatnot. It’s just such a lovely place. Le sigh…I’ll get there. Maybe something to aspire to to motivate me to do more than what I have been doing. A piece for the mental vision board. Hm, that sounds interesting. I could do that. Why not? Save my money and rent something nicer when I go to school. Or after. Yeah, that could work…

  13.  #13IamHis on May 15, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    I feel so judgmental saying this, but I feel thankful that even though I may experience crazy sexual frustration, I don’t have to deal with telling a man about anything like this. and I say this knowing a woman who I love and respect dearly who has genital herpes.

    Guess what I did?!!! I joined Tinder! I felt sooooo vulnerable and scared at first. I told the first guy who messaged me that I felt shy and he was like “lol, why?”

    I’m having so much fun with it so far! It’s totally my thing because it connects to my social media account so I don’t have to do anything additional or “make it sound like a dating profile.” I can just be who I am, and that feels really good.

    Leaning back, letting them message me first, responding in feeling messages, and letting them have the last word.

    This is my little experiment for right now and it feels good. 🙂

  14.  #14IamHis on May 15, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    matches with 14 guys and 5 messaged me first. hopefully this will help me get healthier…

  15.  #15Tereana on May 15, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    Hiii Cupcake! 🙂

    So…wow, you are brave to do the ear-clipping thing. Ears are notoriously sexual. So…there’s that.

    But about the wife, maybe you could just ask? Instead of expressing some kind of mistrust or discomfort, just casually drop in a, “So, how is your wife doing? What did you say her name was again?” Either that will get him talking – and remind him he has a wife, and that you KNOW he has a wife. Or…he may pause a bit. You might see the gears turning before he answers. And if this happens, then it’s possible he made the wife up. I mean, I’m not saying he did. But if he mentioned her and then just stopped? That does sound suspect indeed. I think you’re right. You have reason to be “suspicious.” But you might find out more just be asking how she’s doing…

    What do you think?

  16.  #16Tereana on May 15, 2014 at 8:55 pm

    IsmHis – fun! : )

  17.  #17Cupcake on May 15, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    I know the wife is real. We have mutual friends on Facebook so I see her comments pop up. I have not “friended” him, nor vice versa. On my side, it’s because I am attracted to him and I don’t want him popping up on Facebook all the time in my news feed.
    I don’t know why he hasn’t friended me. Once out with a group of people including him, I was talking about something on FB with another guy I’d friended, and Married Guy was watching the conversation with narrowed eyes, like, “Hey, wait a minute! You two are Facebook friends?” But he didn’t friend me either, and I suspect it’s because he doesn’t want his wife to know about our friendship.

    Heck, I don’t know. My point is just that yes, the wife is real.

    I just need more stuff in my pie chart. He’s got a way bigger slice than he should because I am bored, being asked out daily by toothless heroin addicts, and haven’t had sex in a year. A full year this week.

    I am really looking forward to starting a new job.

    Tereana, Glad to hear that you are getting some momentum going on the site. Hope you are having a blast!

  18.  #18Millie on May 15, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    Cupcake– such an interesting, tension filled story!! Biting his ear is definitely suggestive on your part. It seems that while he has not DONE anything to “pursue” you, there is that tension between you. To be quite honest, it sounds like an imaginary relationship type thing to me. I have male friends with wives and girlfriends who flirt with other females and are suggestive with them. Sure, there is tension, but feeling something and acknowledging it exists is much different than acting upon it. I like the suggestion of bringing up his wife to him and seeing what he says. This also reminds you both of boundaries. If you feel yourself getting too caught up in it…I would take a few steps back. After all, he is unavailable, and you are!

  19.  #19Liquid Light on May 15, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    Cupcake 17, LOL, I can relate, I haven’t had sex in a year and 5 months! And sadly I don’t really miss it, I guess its partially because I haven’t felt a huge sexual attraction to anyone, and partially I feel like its that my sex drive is diminishing as I get older, which really is a depressing thought! Or then I wonder if its just because I’m depressed in general. Ughh 🙁

  20.  #20Millie on May 15, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    I have so much to say in reply to everyone who commented on my Band guy escapade on the last thread..

    Azure– I think I am going to make a new rule for myself also! “NO more musicians!” You are right, they seem to be very self-absorbed. I actually remember seeing this same man with another woman who had been at another one of his shows. I remember because I saw her standing in the corner and was wondering why such a beautiful woman wasn’t dancing like the rest of us! Then I saw her having drinks with him at the bar during his intermission. Remembering this…I would imagine he expected me to do the same..stand there, watch, and wait, for him. In hindsight, I’m glad I did nothing of the sort!!

    Dominique– I see a pattern in my behavior. When I am criticized or made out to be “wrong” or “rude,” I feel very triggered. I feel SOOOO bad. Instead of honoring that bad feeling in the pit of my stomach and moving away from what is causing it, I tend to delve into it. I thought if I told him what he perceived was in reality very off base, that he would relent and calm down. He didn’t. I see now that I immediately was absorbed in how he was feeling and how I could remedy that instead of concerning myself with how I was feeling and what I wanted. I don’t want to date a married man, yet he triggered me into using “fixing” the situation as a remedy for my own happiness, which did not work. No, I don’t want a man who is possessive, unforgiving, or immature. He seems to be those things right now. So yes, very uncompatible.

    FeminineWoman– I love the questions you posed to me. I don’t want to shut down my “available” vibe simply because a man thinks he owns me. I don’t want to and I didn’t. What is this man reflecting to me? I really have to think about that…. Perhaps, from the get go, he made a point of saying that I appeared uninterested. That has been consistent. I’m wondering if I “play it cool” too much. Why am I so quick to apologize? I realize that I am a very sensitive and empathetic person. I am quick to put myself in other’s shoes and honor their feelings as their truth, which is a good skill, but not when it supercedes my ability to connect with myself, which is definitely what happened here. I became uprooted and focused on him instead of me. I respond to criticism well at work or when it is in an objective, not personal arena, but when I receive criticism from a man or a friend, I take it very personally. I don’t want to be perceived as a woman who is rude or plays games. That is not me at all. I see now though, how all of this was HIM, not me. I didn’t do anything wrong expect go over and above apologizing. Yes, I would say that I am someone who seeks other’s approval. I wish I wasn’t, but I constantly find myself wanting to earn that from people who don’t just give it. When I am finally giving it, I realize and/or feel, like I don’t need it anymore. I think this is a very masculine energy quality in me.

    Valerie– thank you for the advice. Hopefully next time I will be able to resist going into convincing or explaining mode and communicate with more strength and clarity.

    Indigo– It makes me feel good and connected to you to hear you say you see some of yourself in me. I agree and wish I hadn’t apologized so much :/

    Tereana– that is such a good point! That he could have done many things and didn’t and then he held them against me! I don’t remember who said it, but he does seem to be a feminine energy man for sure…

    Thanks so much for all the supportive comments ladies! I do appreciate it! Hoping to never see, talk to, or engage with this weirdo again. haha!

  21.  #21Millie on May 15, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    Moving on…(I’m going to be a blog hog tonight, lots to share..) I went on a date last night!!!!! A good date!!! A nice date!!! With a man who manned up!! yay!! He approached me originally outside of the market when my friend and I were putting our groceries in the car. He was riding his bike (bicycle) and swooped up to our car, told me how gorgeous he thinks I am, and that he wants to take me out sometime. Wow…I loved his confidence and assuredness immediately, so I said yes. After some flirtatious texting and a phone call we made a date for last night. I didn’t want him to pick me up since he was basically a complete stranger, but he did offer! We met at a really nice bar/restaurant in the neighborhood. He is a complete gentleman! Opened doors for me, pulled my chair, even scooted it in. We have a lot in common and he felt very easy to be with. I wasn’t nervous one bit. He is attractive, but I don’t feel overwhelmingly attracted to him, which is probably good for me right now. I don’t feel triggered into chasing or lusting. Thank god. We had one drink and an appetizer, but I was super hungry. We couldn’t decided what to order, so I said, let’s just get in-n-out! While in the car, he started talking about his schedule and how early he wakes up…I was like “yawn” in my mind and thinking I should cut this off, but he drove us up to this amazing viewpoint overlooking the city to eat. We hopped the fence like a couple of kids..oh did I mention he is my age!! Actually a little younger, 26 and I’m 27. He helped me over the fence, very gentlemanly. The view was very romantic…and I felt him wanting to kiss me. Maybe this is where my fear of intimacy came in, but I didn’t let it go there…I just didn’t feel like making out with him. I don’t really know him. I could have made out with him, but Just cuz I can doesn’t feel like a good enough reason anymore. When he dropped me off at my car he gave me a hug and went in for a kiss. I let him give me a kiss, a normal kiss, just one, and left it at that. The voice that is chiming in my head is leftover from band guy saying that I didn’t show enough interest. But, I was tired and it was the first date, and I guess I wasn’t feeling “into” kissing. Anyway, no word from him since the date, which is not a good sign, but at least I had a great experience with someone my age who is pretty amazing and a class A gentleman. So, we will see what happens…

  22.  #22Millie on May 15, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    I have another story/issue to share…
    My female friend who has always dispensed honest advice has really angered me…
    She can come across as very judgemental and pointing out what I did wrong and right…and it’s like..there is more to it that what you think I should do!

    ANDREA– this actually reminds me of your story on the last thread about your girlfriend who accused you of leading your male friend on…I’m going to comment on that actually because I can totally relate to that criticism from female friends. I don’t understand why other women feel the need to tell you or me what we are doing “wrong.” First of all, it’s not really any of their business, what goes on between you and your not gay friend. Second, he’s a man and I’m sure he is able to tell you, “I feel led on” or how about, choose not to buy you drinks. He is of his own free will, which has nothing to do with them. Third, I really dislike women who blame women. YOU are leading him on, YOU shouldn’t accept his drinks, YOU, you, you….honestly I think it must come down to some uncomfortable feeling they have that they have not confronted within themselves. Since I’m all Rori-ifyied..I can’t agree with women who think accepting a man’s drink offer is some sort of contract , like if you accept…then_____will happen or should happen. No, nothing needs to happen, except you enjoying your drink and him enjoying buying it for you. RIGHT?! Geez…I really hate all this fake social protocol people invent.

    Anyways, back to my story. So my friend who is currently engaged and pregnant tells me that she almost cut me out of her life when she found out I was flirting with a male friend who has a girlfriend. The gf was very upset about it, and me, who is single, was kind of oblivious to it all. I had no intentions, so what did it matter to me. Apparently it mattered to everyone else and my friend did not confront me at the time. She talked behind my back about it and then tells me the other day she almost ended our friendship because of it. Huh? How about…being a real friend and pulling me aside and letting me know that I should reconsider my behavior because it is hurting other people? I was apalled. Then…I told her about Band guy who is going through a divorce. She told me that committment and marriage is very real to her right now, so she cannot support my getting involved with this man until he is divorced and she doesn’t want to hear about it. She adds that she ended a 20yr friendship with another friend because that girl chose to cheat on her husband. Needless to say, my friend has excellent boundaries. She also confided in me her contemplation of cutting one of our mutual friends out of her life because she didn’t approve of his decisions and some other things….but the point is, I feel like she’s hanging the friendship over my head. Like…if I do something she doesn’t approve of, she doesn’t want to hear about it and she might end the friendship over it. I felt so upset and annoyed, I want to say that–I don’t need a friend who isn’t going to be there through the thick and thin with me, who threatens to pull out the carpet at every tough spot, who turns their nose up in disapproval constantly. I’m sick of the judgement. I feel like she has no concern for me, or the fact that, I’m not a malicious person, if I do something that could hurt someone, it isn’t because I want to hurt someone, it is probably because I don’t know any better, or am still figuring things out. I feel like I’m think bottomless pit of understanding for other people, but when it comes to being understanding about me…people are quick to pull that rug out. I don’t need that. I’m contemplating ending the friendship solely based on that.

  23.  #23Millie on May 15, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Last comment for the night….I saw this pic of Mechanic with the girl from the restaurant that night I thought he was ignoring me. I don’t know if they are dating, but by the looks of the pic, I would say it’s not a completely wild assumption. He looks happy…. I want to be happy like that….with someone.

  24.  #24Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 2:05 am

    Millie your friend does sound judgemental and she does have some valid points. Obviously respecting others relationships is important to her. I also saw some good lessons in there about boundaries and also how not to communicate and navigate relationships. A relationship does not have to be on trial because one disagrees with a friend. She also seem to be prone to use stonewalling and put up walls instead of boundaries – these are cold and shut people out. If these are her ways of dealing with relationship issues she will likely end up in marriage crisis.

  25.  #25Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 2:06 am

    Millie the adventure with that guy sound so juicy and enticing. You are not invested so it is a fertile ground to learn about yourself and what works with men.

  26.  #26Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 4:54 am

    IamHis – don’t feel judgmental for feeling grateful. Given how easy it is to come in contact with an STI, you are probably very lucky. AND, that said, many many people do come in contact with an STI, never see symptoms, but are able to pass it on to someone else. Usually this is men, but it can be men and women. Using condoms is the best way to go, but keep in mind it’s not 100% protection because it doesn’t cover all skin areas.

    All of that is to say, don’t feel judgmental unless you are actually, through “gratitude” judging those who have an STI as somehow less of a “good person” than you. You are lucky. And sometimes things happen that bring it on that are not the person’s fault. Like a cheating partner, for example.

    So definitely, be grateful. One in five is like 20%. That’s a lot of people. And easily something could have happened dufferently. So it’s ok to do a happy dance if you want. Lol

  27.  #27Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 5:03 am

    Millie – ok, truth time. You said your friend has “excellent boundaries.” It sounds to me like she is extremely judgmental and unforgiving, and willing to cut friends out if her life for the smallest infraction, rather than remember who the person is and that they are a friend.

    Also, you mentioned she is engaged and pregnant. Was it intentional? Was she already engaged before she got pregnant? Or is this an accidental baby and they are trying to “make it right” by getting married. Is it possible that she is judging herself harshly and acting it out but cutting people out of her life who offend her?

    You do not need to remain her friend or accept this kind of judgment. Or you can be her friend, but not accept her judgment. She may not be able to accept herself and you can’t make that happen. Who knows what’s going on with her, but it’s her issue, not your character flaw. I’m sorry. That sounds like a tough situation 🙁

  28.  #28Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 5:12 am

    Cupcake – ok. She’s real. Lol. I would still say, just ask after her casually. If he *does* ever make a move on you, then you can get into feelings and boundaries. Or, after he talks about her, you might just say, “you know, this feels kind of weird. Does she know we hang out?” You run the risk of losing his attention, though.

    I agree that married and partnered men like to flirt with other women. It doesn’t mean they are not devoted to their wives. I actually would see it as they are CDing. The thing is, men CD automatically. They don’t need a program to “support” th in doing it. But when we learn to CD, it puts us more on their level. It levels the playing field, so to speak. A man CDing confuses us. But that’s why we need to learn to CD – so that instead of being confused, we can think about what’s best for us, and be more objective about it. I know. Easier said than done. That’s why we need the programs ; ) lol

  29.  #29Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 5:16 am

    Also…men do not have guilt about CDing. And no one ever blames or shames them or makes them feel guilty (like Millie’s friend, for example. Why is it Millie’s “fault” for flirting with someone’s bf, when the bf was flirting, too? And he’s the one with the girlfriend! Hello!!?)

    So it’s ok for guys to flirt with whomever they want. Women are expected to be with one man only. And when they don’t do that, some people get angry.

    Just my observation…

  30.  #30Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Also Millie at rate your friend could end up in a very “small” world with a husband who might get tired of having all her energy laser focussed on him because she has such few friends.

  31.  #31Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 6:59 am

    I like what Tereana said #28
    “Let’s get YOU on a level playing field…
    so that instead of being confused,
    YOU can think about what’s best for YOU,
    and be more objective about it”
    Just my take on it but….This kind of married men pursue women who don’t talk to them about reality!!

    I have noticed when married men would spend too much time with me (interesting alllll the excuses they use as to why they aren’t spending time with the wife)
    They DON”T mention their wives…
    this is NOT Truth telling…
    this is IMAGINARY!!!
    I DO get confused until
    I begin SPEAKING about REALITY…
    When he’s with me I ask questions throughout our time together:
    Me: How is—-(wife’s name)?
    Me: Where does she work?
    Me: Does she like her work?
    Me: Ohhhh… that sounds like a good job!!
    Me: When you help her in the yard (house etc) how do you share the work?
    I ask any question about HER
    while he is spending (wasting MY time)
    time with me….
    The last time I did this… the guy (he had brought over a bottle of wine and we were sitting in my yard)
    got sooo flustered…
    he answered a few questions and got up and drove away and I never had to deal with him again!!! 🙂

  32.  #32Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 7:05 am

    IamHis #13
    Brave!!! Courageous!!!
    Changing your VIBE!!!
    Wow!! I can feel the change in your vibe
    as you Stop
    and change your focus
    AWAY from C (was that the guy?)
    I feel you opening to something FOR YOU!!!
    YoU are LOVING YOU!!!
    and having fun on Tinder…
    I can’t wait to read how things go!!!

  33.  #33Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 7:16 am


    Thank you. When you said maybe it’s just a fun, flirty CD thing for him, I felt the “light bulb” balloon over my head, like in a comic. That feels like the right paradigm to embrace. His interest in me feels so warm, genuine and motiveless that it feels compelling. And yet, despite being attracted to me, it feels like his motives are gentlemanly. I think its probably best if I do ask about his wife and hopefully get to meet her. I think that would take the exciting edge off our friendship, which would be better in the long run.

    For my part, I think I should really just find a boy toy asap. I am climbing the walls with non-specific lust, so it feels perfectly natural that if a handsome, witty guy like Married Guy puts his hand on my arm in a non-sexual yet affectionate way, it’s going to revv my engines more than it should and probably more than someone who is getting regular sex (as I presume he is) can possibly imagine.

    I wish I drank more. It’s so useful in the casual hookup department. As I recall. It’s been a while. I just don’t like alcohol and I have determined that I will spend the rest of my life as a lean, healthy person, and nothing packs the pounds on me like a drink. After half a glass of wine, I’m bloated and puffy the next day. Add that I don’t really like it and — it’s just not worth it to me. But I would probably not have been celibate for a year if I were going out drinking more.

    I guess I should just make sure to run into the Tasty Morsel in my building. I suppose I could sit on the porch and read…except then the toothless heroin addicts can corner me.

    Or, there’s a free concert tonight. I suppose I could just go there and smile at cute guys.

    Liquid Light– it does feel sad, doesn’t it, when there just isn’t anyone worth taking your knickers off for. If I didn’t have standards, I would not have been celibate for a year, either. And when I think that I spent a week sharing a hotel room with Lord Voldemort, and we never actually had sex– well, seriously. Something is wrong with that picture. He should have made some small effort to seduce me, even if I said I didn’t want to have actual sex without a commitment. I feel relieved that that interaction ended. There was something messed up with him around sex. Maybe it was the combo of the two of us, but…he told me after he went back to his country that he had”issues” he’d been trying to work out for 3 years.

    Ok. Done for now. I really wish I had a job to go to so I had other stuff to fill my head.

    Thanks for listening, Sirens.


  34.  #34Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 7:17 am


    Where are you?

    Sending up a flare.

    Miss you!


  35.  #35Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Apple Rose #174-75 from last post…
    I’m wondering…
    To me it sounds like this man is emotionally abusing you…
    Please… when he yells at you have you tried saying quietly…
    “I don’t like it when you talk to me like that”
    turning away from him
    and walking out of the room… leaving the house…

    Do you have the RR CD Toxic Men?
    It is what changed my life!!!
    I highly recommend it….

  36.  #36Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 7:30 am

    Yay Millie #21
    “I had a great experience with someone my age
    who is pretty amazing
    and a class A gentleman.
    So, we will see what happens…”

    Sooo exciting… Such a fun adventure
    that he planned!!
    I LOVE it when the man
    thinks of fun things to do on dates!!!

  37.  #37Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Cupcake Rori says that desperation is like a stink, a smell that just clings to you. I love how she described it as my mind, my body, my psyche is so resistant to that thought that I find myself feeling comtemptous and scornful of the idea of being desperate when I think about it that way. She says that men can smell that vibe a mile away. Some men are prone to take advantage when this happens. For them it is an ego boost so a woman’s feelings is not their priority.

  38.  #38April Rose on May 16, 2014 at 9:04 am

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you for your comments to me. It feels sweet to know you have read my posts, and that they aren’t lingering in cyberspace, unseen.

    I love it that you called me Apple Rose. I love this new name. It makes me feel giddy and young and full of energy. I want to eat a juicy apple now.

  39.  #39April Rose on May 16, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Ladies, what is your limit on what you will forgive?

    If a date had forcefully slammed the car door in anger, (while I was sat inside) he would be history.

    In the context of a five year relationship, I feel confused and need a little help with perspective, please. Does it matter what I did or said to trigger him? Or is it an outright deal breaker?

  40.  #40Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 9:17 am

    April Rose…ooooops!! 🙂

  41.  #41Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 9:59 am

    Dealbreakers – murder, addictions, physical violence etc. Slamming a door, well I constantly have to remind kids that my car door can be locked without slamming. When a person is angry they slam doors, bang pots and pans around, scream etc. I prefer that they do that rather than try to hit me. They are entitled to their anger and to express it as they wish so long as it does not involve me.

  42.  #42Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Also in a 5 year relationship patterns have already been set plus he knows you are invested.

  43.  #43Daria on May 16, 2014 at 10:26 am

    apple rose does feel so fun!

  44.  #44Daria on May 16, 2014 at 10:27 am

    concentrating on me

    leaning back

    dancing —> feeling stronger in shoulder —> gallbladdre channel

    gonna go for a walk!

  45.  #45April Rose on May 16, 2014 at 10:48 am


    I have been saying for a long time how I feel jolted when a car door is shut and I’m inside, and have requested he let me get out of the car before we shut the doors. I have delicate ears and sensitive hearing.

    He hurled the door shut with all his might. The effect might as well have been physical violence.

  46.  #46Dominique on May 16, 2014 at 10:49 am

    Liquid Light – 19 – What you’re feeling has nothing to do with age and everything to do with there not being a man to whom you feel attracted or connected. For some women, myself included, when this isn’t present, the libido shuts down almost altogether. But when someone comes around who does it for you, your libido will come FLOODING back. 🙂


  47.  #47Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 10:53 am

    April Rose,

    I think everyone is probably entitled to slam a door once every few years, especially if there’s an argument happening, not just a snit.

    Look, Jesus knocked the money lenders’ tables over in the temple. Emotions happen. Sometimes they come out that way.

    It it’s typical for the pets, that’s different. If its petty attention getting, that’s different. But someone who’s struggling with a frustrating situation in order to get past it, in my opinion, is entitled to slam a car door.

    Spit? No.
    Kick the dog or be aggressive in any other way to a person? No.
    Punch a wall? Slam a door? Throw a drink in the sink?

    Sure. Once every few years. When emotions are running high. I could deal with that.

    Note: I am half Italian. It could be cultural.


  48.  #48Dominique on May 16, 2014 at 11:11 am

    April Rose – A deal breaker is your definition of a deal breaker. I would have a difficult time enduring someone who acted violently whether it was directed at me or not. My ex was this way, and there are good reasons he’s an ex, the violent tendency being a huge one. This is me. This seems to be maybe where you are headed?


  49.  #49Liquid Light on May 16, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Dominique 46, Thank you so much for saying that! It’s been depressing to feel this way so its nice to know that its not my age and that there is hope for me. I notice that when I dance, I do get back in touch with my sexy/sexual energy! It feels nice, and it feel safe since I can be and feel sexual without actually having to have sex. I think because of my last relationship, I’m a bit fearful around sex! Ughh.

  50.  #50Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 11:19 am

    April Rose #45
    Don’t know if this will be helpful but…

    this is an excerpt from a post in March 2009 from Rori
    Why Does a Man Treat You Badly

    Rori says:
    “So – if a man is treating you badly – In a “minor’ way by not being present when he’s with you, or not calling, or not following up, or forgetting things, or paying too much attention to other women in the room, so many other ways men distance themselves, or test us, or simply display their decision to not care about us properly…or in a “major” way with insults, neglect, verbal abuse, slamming things, physical abuse and cheating…then instead of looking for “fault” or “blame” – just ask yourself:

    “Why am I here?”

    Just make this your simple process:

    1. Experience – actually, truly, totally experience how YOU feel about YOURSELF when you’re with this man.

    2. If it doesn’t feel good – notice it. Write about it. Speak it out loud to yourself – until you can put it together in words to speak it directly to him: “This doesn’t feel good.”

    3. Practice speaking this truth all the time – whenever things don’t feel good. This is NOT about whether or not he takes out the garbage or calls you often enough to suit you. This is not about his behavior. Not about what he does or doesn’t do. This is NOT about making a man WRONG. This is not about making YOURSELF “wrong.”

    This is simply about learning to quickly and honestly answer for yourself the question – “Why am I here?”

    When you can answer that for yourself no matter what’s going on – then you’ll get this whole, huge area we call “Boundaries.”

    Sometimes we are “here” because it’s what we’re used to. Sometimes it’s what we “think” is right. sometimes it’s what we were taught. Sometimes we feel “compelled” to be here because of a strong chemical pull to a man, or because we’re afraid to be alone.

    It doesn’t matter what the answer is as much as how deeply we’re wiling to be honest with ourselves and tell the TRUTH.”

  51.  #51Liquid Light on May 16, 2014 at 11:25 am

    I just had the phone interview. They want me to come in for an in-person interview! Yay!!!

  52.  #52Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Dominque #47
    Yay!!! good to know!! :->

  53.  #53Liquid Light on May 16, 2014 at 11:39 am

    “when there just isn’t anyone worth taking your knickers off for.”

    Hahahaha, Cupcake, that made me laugh, thanks!!!

  54.  #54April Rose on May 16, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Thank you Dominique,

    I am with you on this one. He is violent (physically) towards himself when suffering panic attacks.

    Something in your wording clarified things “someone who acts violently…”

    Yes, something about not being able to contain the impulse… means the difference between feeling safe and unsafe.

    Yes, ‘ex’ looks a lot like the direction in which I am headed….

  55.  #55Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 11:45 am

    April Rose… tried to post this earlier and it didn’t post…

    Not sure if this will help
    Rori wrote a post in March 2009- Why Does a Man Treat You Badly…
    This is a portion of the post…
    “So – if a man is treating you badly – In a “minor’ way by not being present when he’s with you, or not calling, or not following up, or forgetting things, or paying too much attention to other women in the room, so many other ways men distance themselves, or test us, or simply display their decision to not care about us properly…or in a “major” way with insults, neglect, verbal abuse, physical abuse and cheating…then instead of looking for “fault” or “blame” – just ask yourself:

    “Why am I here?”

    Just make this your simple process:

    1. Experience – actually, truly, totally experience how YOU feel about YOURSELF when you’re with a man.

    2. If it doesn’t feel good – notice it. Write about it. Speak it out loud to yourself – until you can put it together in words to speak it directly to him: “This doesn’t feel good.”

    3. Practice speaking this truth all the time – whenever things don’t feel good. This is NOT about whether or not he takes out the garbage or calls you often enough to suit you. This is not about his behavior. Not about what he does or doesn’t do. This is NOT about making a man WRONG. This is not about making YOURSELF “wrong.”

    This is simply about learning to quickly and honestly answer for yourself the question – “Why am I here?”

    When you can answer that for yourself no matter what’s going on – then you’ll get this whole, huge area we call “Boundaries.”

    Sometimes we are “here” because it’s what we’re used to. Sometimes it’s what we “think” is right. sometimes it’s what we were taught. Sometimes we feel “compelled” to be here because of a strong chemical pull to a man, or because we’re afraid to be alone.

    It doesn’t matter what the answer is as much as how deeply we’re wiling to be honest with ourselves and tell the TRUTH.

    I know many women, and have worked with many clients who KNOW they are trapping themselves in a bad-feeling situation, and yet simply will not move away from that situation. But, even though they’re not moving away from the bad-feeling situation and putting themselves into places where they have a better chance of experiencing good feelings – they are taking the baby-steps of answering the question – “Why am I here?” and really, really – as painful as it is – hearing the answer.

    In the end – it’s our choice, what we DO with the information we HAVE. And the only information we have is about OURSELVES.

    So – if you are “here” – and it doesn’t feel good – that’s where we start.”

  56.  #56Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 11:58 am

    Yay LL!!! Good luck with the in person interview!!

  57.  #57Dominique on May 16, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    Liquid Light – 48, 49 – Also even when your hormones drop, when you have a man in your life with whom you feel deeply intimate, the sexual urges are still there. And you also can boost it if you want with herbs and things. I know many remedies of you ever need one.



  58.  #58Indigo on May 16, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    April Rose,

    For a long time, I have been urging you to ask yourself “why am I here?” It’s important to answer this question for you, not anyone else, as only you really know. Only you know how important this relationship is to you and what benefits and advantages you derive from it that keep you there.

    I also go back to what Dominique says: can you accept him for exactly who he is, even if nothing changes? If the answer is no, you owe it to him and yourself to let him go, because trying to change someone and “modify” their behavior puts a constant strain on the relationship that it cannot endure. If you can love him just as he is, I would encourage you to try and relax and try to be less “bothered” by his behavior, take care of yourself really well, not bring things up so often etc.

    If you cannot accept him just as he is, which it sounds is the case, you may want to look at letting go.

    I don’t know April Rose. I have just seen first-hand the toll that always being “unhappy” about your partner’s behavior takes on all concerned.

    Sending lots of love and hugs to you

  59.  #59Indigo on May 16, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    D unblocked me from Skype today. He sent me a link to a picture of a horse, didn’t say hi or how are you or anything.

    I felt really not bothered. I didn’t reply. I just felt strangely kind of “huh” and carried on with my day, really not very affected.

  60.  #60Daria on May 16, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    yay i finally wrote the skin care people to ask to return and exchange a bottle and

    asked my mom to buy me some skin creams

    yay i feel great that im concentrating on me

    i also answered some POF’s and gave my number out

  61.  #61Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    58 Indigo

    I am glad you just thought, “Huh.”

    That reminds me of an ex who used to play a kind of game with a number of women, where he’d dial the number of a woman from his past, then let it ring once, then hang up.

    Most would take the bait and call back to see what he wanted. But he filed it away as “She’s still in my pocket.” If she called back, that was all he needed to know.

    He was not, bless him, a particularly highly-evolved human being.

    But I actually learned a lot, in the short time I dated him, about red flags. And he fixed my lawnmower.

    Anyway. I feel glad you didn’t take the bait.


  62.  #62Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Azure Blu, lol 31. Exactly!

    And indigo – horse picture. That’s funny. Maybe because every girl wants a pony? Horses are beautiful strong creatures. Hopefully he didn’t mean it as an insult. But it could be taken as a compliment, too : )

  63.  #63Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    Indigo #57
    NOT being bothered by a link from D…
    Priceless!!! :-))

  64.  #64Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    #37 FeminineWoman

    I have been puzzling feel hours now about what you meant about the desperation observation.

    Your larger point, in referencing what Rori said, I understand. If there’s an opportunity to loom large in a woman’s life, some men will take it, just because they like to loom large, whether or not they have anything to offer her and disregarding whether there might be an emotional cost to her. I get that.

    What has puzzled me is why you mention it to me. I hope I don’t sound desperate. I certainly don’t feel desperate. I feel like I have choices, just nothing that appeals right now. I am in great shape and attract male attention pretty much whenever I go out, and I am lonely sometimes, yet overall I feel okay about being single because I feel confident that the right man will be amazed when he finds me.

    I know your depth and wisdom, and I am always impressed by the perspective you bring to the board in your feedback. Which is why I am puzzling over what you meant.

    The married guy is very sweet, and I believe his intentions are honorable. I think he just really “sees” me, as do a few if our mutual friends. I overheard him and another guy talking once about how amazing I am. (And that felt wonderful to hear, I can tell you. They both blushed when they realized I could hear them.)

    So I don’t think he views me as desperate or needy. I don’t initiate contact, and I let him find me in the room when we are at the same place, and usually we are out in a group and wherever I sit, that is where the boys hover.

    My, I sound cocky. I just am trying to explain though. I have such respect for your insight that I’ve replayed things in my head, trying to see where you saw desperation.

    Sexual hunger? But having an appetite is not the same thing as starving. And I know you know that.

    Hmmm. Please elucidate.

    Your friend,


  65.  #65Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Cupcake #59
    I’m embarassed to say (quite a few years ago)
    I had an imaginary relationship with a guy like that.
    for years he’d call and hang up and
    I’d call him right back (after he hadn’t talk to me for 1-2 months)
    After reading Harriet Lerners – “The Dance of Anger” and Codependant No More…
    I started LOVING ME…
    And ignored his calls a couple of times
    he never called again…
    Ohhh… my- how times have changed
    thanks to Rori

  66.  #66Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    I just has this weird thought about my childhood. Last night I did this childhood re-imprinting thing. I don’t know if that’s why I had this thought. But it occurred to me that I was only really exposed to “good” things. This was intentional, and it always bothered me. My mom wanted to “shelter” me from bad things. And protection is great. But overprotection meant I felt like I had no freedom. And then no way to know waft to do when things aren’t good and happy.

    Case in point: Sesame Street. And mr. Rogers. Both of those are happy, imaginary worlds, full of good people doing good things. “Bad guys” are cartoony and easily vanquished. It’s full of colors and songs, and people are your friends. We were not “allowed” to watch anything my parents considered to be offensive, by their standards.

    I also felt really cut off from my friends. I could not participate in fun things or talk about the shows they watched, because they were “off-limits” at home. New could mkt even have video games.

    This was not a fun existence. And while it may have “shielded” me from certain things, it has also made me pretty Ill-equipped to deal with people when they don’t love up to a Sesame Street/Mr. Rogers level of ethics.


  67.  #67Tereana on May 16, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Cupcake…argh. That story about the man with the phone game. I actually fell fir that once. Last year, actually. I just remembered. I saw a missed call from one of the K’s that I dated. It was pretty random, so I just called back and I think left a quick message. I felt like I was doing “the right thing,” being decent. But then I realized after – the ick feeling. He must have been playing that game. He never called back. But I haven’t thought about him since. Lol

  68.  #68Azure Blu on May 16, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Terreanna #64
    it sounds like you are taking good care of you
    by exploring your past and seeing how it impacts your world today!!

  69.  #69Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Re that game of seeing if the girl will call back—

    I was once sitting with a fairly successful standup comic in NYC, a fun guy who has played the comedy clubs for years.

    His phone kept going off with text messages. I mean, a couple times a minute.

    I said, “You are very popular tonight!”

    He laughed and showed me his phone. He had the phone numbers of several hundred women. He had them organized and separated into lists and sub lists.

    When he was bored, he would shoot of a generic email like, “Whassup, girl?” And then just sit back and let the texts roll in.

    He was out in comedy clubs six nights a week for years, meeting women almost every night. Do the math.

    Every time I get a “nothing” text like that, I remember that guy and wonder if the person sending it is just throwing out his fishing line and seeing what bites.

  70.  #70Daria on May 16, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    doing great with my leanback still!


  71.  #71Daria on May 16, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    yay the skin care people wrote back that my lotion is actually paraben-free

    so i’ll be using it yay!

  72.  #72Daria on May 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    it felt thrilling and i’m proud of myself for asking them to replace it and for checking my e-mail and having these interactions with people

  73.  #73Daria on May 16, 2014 at 6:43 pm

    so as far as leaning back

    i did not respond to M-man’s “imy” text the other day!

    I didn’t feel drawn to really…

    and NeighborFriend texted me today and i did not ask him to hang out, though i would very much like to hang out with someone

    same with my OG uncle friend…


    I feel good that i feel so self fulfilled that i’m not begging people/men/friends to hang out wiht me…

    that ‘works’ only in the short term for me and in a few days to a couple weeks i wind up feeling drained and very lonely and unwanted and

    not what i want

    and right now i’m doing great with doing stuff on my own

    being brave and going places on my own

    even hiking the other day or out to a club…

    yay me!

  74.  #74Daria on May 16, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    oh and I actually had a call and a voicemail about missing me and hoping im having a nice day from … what did i call him again… FaveCd

    but i didn’t even call back on that! bec he didn’t ask…

    and he’s not askign me out…


    way to take care of my energy Daria

    i LOVE YOU!

  75.  #75Andrea on May 16, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    OMG # 67… Cupcake, my little brother used to do that too. He’s the lead singer of a Chicago Tribute Band and very charming, very charismatic, handsome, great singer, meets women all over the place.

    Some mornings he sent out a mass text messages as simple as, “You are my sunshine. Have a wonderful day.” And the messages would flood back to him.

    The evenings that he was not on the road or singing, he was with a different girl every night.

  76.  #76Femininewoman on May 16, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Cupcake for some reason the comments about the married guy then the lack of sex triggered the memory of that article in my consciousness. I hadn’t thought of it for a while. It elicited such deep feelings inside me around the thought of the smell. It felt right to me to write it out, if not for you maybe someone else might find it valuable. Now I am wondering if I was feeling judgmental and didn’t realize it. Sorry if I offended you.

  77.  #77Cupcake on May 16, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    75 FW

    Thanks for explaining. I wasn’t offended, just felt puzzled.

    I know what you mean about sometimes something needing to go up on the board and you are not exactly sure why.

    It’s all good.


  78.  #78Emerson on May 16, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    FW 37
    I know this and yet so sometimes I still feel “desperate” for a mans company or love and affection…
    I had a lonely evening tonight and I feel desperate for someone to just have some one on one time with. I hate that I feel this way!!!

  79.  #79Indigo on May 16, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    Cupcake 59,

    I’ve been through this with absolute predictability with him countless times. He has a little temper tantrum over something, says he never wants to speak to me again, blocks me from everything and then a few days or weeks later unblocks me and makes contact. This time it was precisely 16 days.

    Except this time, I didn’t really feel anything. Just sort of a peaceful release.

  80.  #80Indigo on May 16, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    Tereana 60,

    I’m really into horses. I have my own, a beautiful grey mare.

    He sent me a link to a picture of the world’s most beautiful horse. Probably thought I would like it. Sweet in a way, I guess.

  81.  #81Indigo on May 16, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    Azure Blu 61,

    🙂 Thank you dear

  82.  #82Millie on May 17, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Femininewoman– yeah, i agree that how she treats her friendships and the stonewalling that happens with them will eventually affect her marriage in some way.

    Tereana- to answer your question, they were planning on getting married, but also having sex without protection, so they were open to getting pregnant. He didn’t officially propose until after she found out. So, no it is not a “cover up,” but I do think she forces things sometimes instead of letting them happen.

  83.  #83Millie on May 17, 2014 at 12:52 am

    Band guy reached out today and wanted to get together tonight. He invited me down to his side of town for “moonlight and cocktails” and said that his roommate was out of town for the wknd. Haha, in hindsight, I should have made a joke, like, “oh well then I’m definitely not coming over if he’s not there!” But I didn’t think of it….I love that he said moonlight for some reason. I told him wow, that almost sounds romantic! I don’t feel hurt or upset anymore, but I told him I was working late and didn’t want to drive out to him. I teased asking if I was on his good side now…he asked for a rain check on getting together and I told him that was fine as I’d rather hold out for a real date. He replied “real date?” I said yes, I loved being picked up by a man and taken out, under the moonlight… He was cute..he joked about being vaguely familiar with such rituals, as it has been awhile. He’s a musician, I’m sure he gets around, but it was a cute conversation and I felt grounded and not angry at all. His tone was much different also from the other day, more playful and warm vs. accusing and stonewalling.

  84.  #84Millie on May 17, 2014 at 12:58 am

    Cupcake and Femininewoman 37 and 62
    Interested to hear your response FW.
    I didn’t get the sense that Cupcake is desperate, or giving off that vibe, just that perhaps an imaginary relationship might be forming.

  85.  #85April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 4:51 am


    I ask myself that all the time.
    Things probably look bad to you beacause I only post here about my feelings in the relationship when they get really bad.

    Sometimes things are really lovely.
    Much of the time there are minor levels of him being distant, not being present, forgetting things, etc. (as posted by Azure Blu in 53).

    Then, if my heart is not fully open, things can get painful.

    “Why am I here?”
    Because the connection, when it is there, feels so good.

    “Why am I here?”
    To avoid intimacy? If I’m complaining about the lack of it, that makes me look like I want it and maybe I don’t. Maybe the fear is well hidden in this dynamic.

    “Why am I here?”
    Because, like you, I feel totally wrenched and despairing when i contemplate loss.

    “Why am I here?”
    Because it could get better…. I know it could.

    “Why am I here?”
    Because our lives are utterly intermingled.

    There is something I’m not seeing. An elusive insight that’s always just a little out of view.

    I’m heaping love on me.
    Thank you Apple Rose 🙂

  86.  #86Indigo on May 17, 2014 at 4:55 am

    Hi April Rose 🙂

    That is exactly why I asked you that question. Because you see things that we do not see, feel things that we do not feel. Intuit and sense nuances that we know nothing about.

    And there will be masses of good which will keep you there. I know that, which is why I asked. It’s important, I feel, to remember why we are still in a given situation, otherwise the negative, when it comes, can have us doubting our own judgment or sanity.

    And… I know what you mean about avoiding certain types of intimacy. I certainly do. It’s too much for me.

    And I certainly, DEFINITELY, know what you mean about loss.


  87.  #87Indigo on May 17, 2014 at 4:59 am

    April Rose,

    “There is something I’m not seeing. An elusive insight that’s always just a little out of view.”

    That’s exactly how I feel, when it comes to D, which is what I cannot explain to other people. All they can see is the ass-ish, emotionally unavailable behavior, and they look at me with exasperation and as though I’m mildly mentally challenged.

  88.  #88Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 5:16 am

    All that leaning back is inspiring>>
    Thanx for sharing…

  89.  #89Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 5:24 am

    Millie #81
    Wow… you were leaning back and being a siren…
    I feel a relaxed, loving YOU vibe!!!

    Ahhh the Lovely sireness of it all!!!
    You said
    “I told him that was fine as I’d rather hold out for a real date.
    He replied “real date?”
    I said yes, I loved being picked up by a man and taken out, under the moonlight…”

  90.  #90Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 5:45 am

    RE 83 April Rose -Sometimes things are really lovely.
    Much of the time there are “minor” levels

    I thought so and as such the reason why I responded to you the way I did. I believe you want to be there, at least for now.

    I experience your “Yes, ‘ex’ looks a lot like the direction in which I am headed….” as being inauthentic. I believe you have a block to really move forward and I see this as just a comment to validate someone else’s statement. Again I might be totally wrong as only you truly know what is going on inside you.

  91.  #91Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 5:55 am

    RE 76 Emerson I know it. I know what you mean. I have come to look at the desperation straight in the face and either laugh at myself or shake it off. It is pointless to hate it, is what I have accepted. What I hate is the idea that a man can smell it on me. I don’t want that. I hate that. I might want him but I don’t want to be desperate about it. So I am coming to age of looking at that desperate child me and talking to her, loving her, and hugging her. When I do that it feels like the level of desperation subside like the tide ebbing and flowing at the shore of the beach. When it comes in with the thunderous rush its like I stand there and let it rush over me knowing the calm lull is just behind it as the wave subsides into a peaceful lull as the ocean goes back to normal. I feel confident that it will. I have this deep abiding trust now that it will.

  92.  #92Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 6:01 am

    RE 78 Indigo when I read it, sweet was what crossed my mind. I remember that you are into horses and thought that obviously he was thinking of you when he came across the picture. Maybe he was unconsciously thinking something good about you and this is an indication that his image of you in his head has been reframed in a good way.

  93.  #93Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 6:18 am

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  94.  #94Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 6:19 am

  95.  #95Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 6:40 am

    Random thoughts for a Saturday morn…
    Chilly this morning…
    I live in the great lakes state…
    the crab apple and apple trees are in bloom
    the soft smell of the deep pink and white blossoms
    is intoxicating…mmmmm
    yummy artisan coffee and
    i’m wrapped in a soft blanket on my deck
    MN is in Boston…
    he drove his granddaughter and daughter
    to his granddaughters internship at a hospital there.
    Also visiting family…
    Going to the Detroit – White Sox game
    restaurants… Fun
    He has 2 children and 11 grandchildren…
    11 grandchildren feels OVERWHELMING to me

    The more I get to know MN i feel
    MORE capacity for juicy intimacy with him
    this is VERY scary…
    This is ME taking my “dog and pony show”,
    which I am learning from alll of you Lovely sirens and
    and slowly unzippering my heart to this man.
    He is a good looking, active… AND sweet man…
    different from the more hard core
    and guarded men I have let get close recently.
    He stands up for himself… I find sexy
    Not as playful as I like… maybe he’ll warm up?? :-}
    He initiates conversation about us
    He loves and cherishes (VERY close knit) his family with actions not
    just words.
    His wife of 40 years died 4 years ago of cancer…
    This feels Very overwhelming to me…
    My NV- how could he ever love anyone (me) again
    She sounds soooo amazing I’m not like that
    I feel VERY intimidated by her
    He doesn’t say anything about her much…
    When he mentions her I will ask a little more questions. to get to know her a little more.
    He texts me and calls on a daily basis
    Says he misses me
    First man in a Long time that could say that first!!!!
    That’s huge~~~
    He kisses good – Ahhh!! :-+
    Has hardly dated since her death…
    initiates the dates and plans interesting things…
    I shared with him that I want a rest of my life relationship – He is too
    I shared my bucket list
    Visiting (I have a list of cities I want to visit) places and cities all over the US

    Our Last date he took out his phone
    and wanted to know some of the songs
    I listen to…
    He likes the old Rock n Roll (i do too BUT I’ve been listening to that stuff on the radio for 40 years!! Time for New sounds)
    I listen to some of the modern stations in our area…
    I like ~Lorde
    and Katy Perry – “…so you wanna play with magic?
    Boy, Do you know what your askin’ for…
    baby do you dare to do this?
    Cause I’m comin at you like a dark horse!” ;->
    ~Pharrell Williams
    ~Robin Thick
    so we listened to the songs right there!!! :-)))
    Showed me pics of children… grandchildren…
    his place up north
    such a nice way to slowly introduce me into his life…
    Sooooo… I keep feeling anxious…
    Tooo much closeness…
    Tooo much intimacy…
    I notice I try and control the way the conversation goes…
    BUT then I STOP… let him talk and lead the conversation.
    This is VERY good practice with
    A man that CAN do more intimacy!!! :-)))
    My darlin’ Azure
    I am holding you in my arms
    I wish for you to take a deep breath
    Soft warm breath
    and sighhhhhh
    and BE right here with your
    lovely back yard.
    pussy cat in your lap and
    feel how happy you are!!!

  96.  #96Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 6:47 am

    FW #89
    Ahhhh… lovely… thank you!
    “When I do that it feels like the level of desperation subside like the tide ebbing and flowing at the shore of the beach.
    When it comes in with the thunderous rush
    its like I stand there and let it rush over me
    knowing the calm lull is just behind it
    as the wave subsides into a peaceful lull
    as the ocean goes back to normal.
    I feel confident that it will.”

  97.  #97Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 7:01 am

    April Rose,
    Just my thoughts but…
    Have you gotten the Toxic Man CD?

    This really helped me start listening to
    The deeply hidden voice with all my Powerful Rage and Anger in her…
    This CD helped me become her friend and together we started LOVING ALL Of ME!!
    which we know is the KEY to happiness
    No matter who I’m with..
    It’s NOT the man (I was caught in a toxic relationship)
    and steps to do that…!!
    Ahhhh… thank you Rori!!

  98.  #98Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 7:38 am

    I LOVE this song….
    Singing it at the top of my lungs with the music video

    Sara Bareilles- singer
    Say what you want to say
    and let the words fall out
    I wanna see YOU BE BRAVE

    I just want to see YOU
    I just want to see YOU
    I just want to see YOU
    Maybe there’s a way out
    of the cage where you live
    Maybe one of these days
    you can let the light in
    and show ME

    Say what you want to say
    and let the words fall out
    I wanna see YOU BE BRAVE

    Honestly… Did YOUR history of silence
    do you any good?
    Did you think it would…?
    Let YOUR words be anything but EMPTY
    why don’t YOU tell them the TRUTH?

    Say what you want to say
    and let the words fall out
    I wanna see YOU BE BRAVE

  99.  #99April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 7:45 am

    Azure Blu,

    I felt myself transported to where you are, among the blooms, wrapped snugly in a blanket. Mmmm.

    Yes, I have Toxic Men, and I have listened to it once.
    My stranger is a torturer. She is the part of me I struggle to identify with. I have so much more empathy for her victims – captive and in agony.

    It’s weird because WM has shared his violent fantasies with me. He identifies with the torturer, wanting complete control over others and humiliating them (he specifies young women). It didn’t even feel ick or scary to me to hear that. I don’t think he is remotely capable of such an act in real life.

  100.  #100April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 7:57 am


    Thank you for your honesty.
    I guess this time it is inauthentic for me to say WM will soon be an ex.
    There are times when I do convince myself he will be an ‘ex’. And at those times I can feel the relief.

    So much of our conflict comes from misunderstandings.

    I heard Larry Michel say once that good compatibility (especially in the area of communication) can make both people live more powerfully.

    I had a belief that more challenges in a relationship would bring out more of my inner resources.
    My experience is showing me how tiring and draining it feels to come up against the same walls over and over.

    I think you are right – I do have a block.

    Maybe my block is an inability to deal with reality and make strong choices in my own best interest. (Does this come close to your perception of me? I would feel grateful to know if your intuition says it is something like this)

    Maybe it is a fault in me which keeps me returning to a difficult situation looking for the sunny side. ???

    Gosh, it’s so much easier to see what’s going on inside other people, than oneself!!

  101.  #101Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 7:59 am

    April Rose,,,
    My thoughts are
    how Interesting that you say this…
    “he wanting complete control over others and humiliating them (he specifies young women).
    It didn’t even feel ick or scary to me to hear that. I don’t think he is remotely capable of such an act in real life.”
    When some of the interactions you have described (which he does on a regular basis) are him humiliating to you.

  102.  #102Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 8:02 am

    I meant — Him humiliating YOU…

  103.  #103Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 8:25 am

    April Rose…
    “Maybe it is a fault in me which keeps me returning to a difficult situation looking for the sunny side. ???
    I’m just wondering, darling siren..
    What do you think YOU deserve?

    How good you were to YOURSELF
    purchasing Toxic Man… ((hugs))

    When you feel humiliated by WM
    do you follow those feelings down into your pelvic
    and love YOUR humiliation,
    wrap your warm arms around YOUR
    Feeling Unlovable?

    It’s been my overwhelming experience
    I could only make “choices in MY own best interest”
    the MORE I practiced LOVEing ME…
    listening to Modern Siren & Toxic Man
    and reading and reading the
    old blogs and new ones…
    CDing and Learning more and more about
    MY triggers…
    It took a year before I could even make baby -steps
    to begin voicing my boundaries softly.

    I was in AGONY and Tears and sobbing
    MISERY for over 2 years…
    and NEVER did I think
    I could
    get out of my extreme “Chemical” dependency on my toxic man.

  104.  #104Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 8:41 am

    April that is what I sense. I dunno that I would describe it as a fault in you. Maybe just another part of you that needs to be fully loved.

    I believe there has got to be some trade off that keeps you in that relationship. Either that or you are wanting some payback for your investment. I also do believe that all this work you have been doing has helped to visualize the perfect relationship for you and you might be working to make what is (the reality) match up with your ideal.

    Whatever it is, I see it as a choice you are making, not a fault in you. He is not a perfect man neither is it a perfect relationship but I imagine that the good must be really endearing. It seems to me that you have not yet checked out emotionally and maybe just need to make peace with yourself, him and where you’re at on your journey. Not necessarily comparing what you have to other people’s relationship or comparing him to other men.

    A difficult situation is not always easily untangled.

  105.  #105Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 8:43 am

    “It took a year before I could even make baby -steps
    to begin voicing my boundaries softly.”

    Sometimes when I even think of taking some babysteps I feel like vomiting.

  106.  #106Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 8:46 am

    “It didn’t even feel ick or scary to me to hear that.”

    Maybe it is because somewhere deep inside you feel confident in your power and ability to take care of you? Remember our greatest strengths can be our greatest weakness.

  107.  #107Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 8:51 am

    So much of our conflict comes from misunderstandings.

    This triggers some memories for me such as:-

    Be the change you want to see in the world.
    Listen to understand not to reply.
    Conflict can be a catalyst to deeper intimacy.

    I wonder if sometimes when conflict arise if I can just choose to say “I don’t want to fight with you. Is there a way that we can deal with this so that both our needs get met”? If he doesn’t want just choose to accept the no and go off to resolve the inner conflict.

  108.  #108Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 9:05 am

    ” Either that or you are wanting some payback for your investment. ”
    I remember thinking about alllll the time and love
    I had invested in
    my relationship with BK (toxic man)
    Alll the wonderful memories we had…
    I kept thinking he’ll-we’ll
    go back to what we had before…
    when everything was soooo GOOD!!!

    As I continued to believe…
    Visuallizing what my perfect relationship
    looks like… over and over
    Tweaking my visualizing and
    Visualizing it over and over…
    Voicing my desires to him in Feeling messages
    He kept coming up against HIS wall…
    of what HE couldn’t be
    I got a clearer and clearer picture of who
    He REALLY was…
    Not my imaginary idea of Who HE was.
    HE’s Nice enough…
    BUT he brought out all MY Insecurities
    His lying and cheating, cold and cruel…
    I decided that wasn’t what MY Ideal relationship looked like…
    and ONE FINE DAY
    I got out of THAT CAGE!!!

  109.  #109April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Ladies, you inspire me.

    I feel so grateful for your full and luscious presence, your wisdom and the love you have for YOU.

    I am learning so much from you.

    And I feel so soothed and motivated and curious and friggin awesome reading your responses to me.

    I feel joyous tumbling tummy and tears reading “.. just need to make peace with yourself, him and where you’re at on your journey.”

  110.  #110April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 9:18 am

    “.. all this work you have been doing has helped to visualize the perfect relationship for you and you might be working to make what is (the reality) match up with your ideal.”

    Spot on!

  111.  #111April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Hence the constant string of disappointments!

  112.  #112LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 9:19 am

    Hi Sirens.
    A Circular Dating Photo Story about shoes …
    I feel giggly lol


  113.  #113April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 9:20 am

    When my heart is open and I am generous with it towards him, all feels wonderful. He is very responsive to that, in a loving way.

    A slight closing on my part or a disagreement between us brings forth his unloving responses.

  114.  #114Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 9:23 am

    April Rose… #108
    Your soft vulnerability… sharing your heart with us…
    That is VERY inspiring for me…

  115.  #115LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 9:28 am

    Doing Some Soul Search (and shoe browsing lol) today. I am be spamming the blog later. Apologies extended. Love to you all and have a beautiful Saturday!

  116.  #116LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 9:29 am


    Feels like I type WAY too FAST 😀

  117.  #117LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Hi April Rose. Love reading your posts! You too Azure Blue!!!

    Feels lovely Reading your exchange.

  118.  #118Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 9:42 am

    Love the shoe story!!!

  119.  #119Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 9:47 am

    ((((((((((April Rose))))))))))

  120.  #120Daria on May 17, 2014 at 10:12 am

    thank you Azure Blu 🙂

    i feel soft and smily

    (((Azure Blu)))

  121.  #121LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Azure Blu

    I feeling flirty and footish LOL

  122.  #122LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 10:20 am

    April Rose

    I love to read your posts as you work through your feelings. I don’t want to interrupt you, but I do feel something I want to share. I hope you don’t mind.

    I copied a quote of Rori’s a few weeks when she was riffing about when she was triggered by an exchange with her husband (I don’t remember when it’s from) but I think it might help.

    ““I feel unsafe with this man right at this moment.”
    OMG, this resonates with me! Yes, it’s not just Trust, or about what he is doing, I don’t feel safe. It’s what I’m feeling . . . UNSAFE. and I want to feel safe. It’s more than trust.

    Rori said:

    “And – the thrilling part of this is – I can fix this.
    I can work with this.
    I can actually enjoy un-spooling how this came to be inside me, and re-making it into whatever feels better.
    I can un-make whatever ideas I’ve had about how anything “should” look – and see things fresh.”

    I just experienced this today. I had to stop, lean back from MYSELF and just imagine myself adjusting and relaxing into the situation, taking control of myself, seeing that YES, I can see this a different way.”

  123.  #123Zara on May 17, 2014 at 10:22 am

    => “I’m ok with or without him. Thinking out loud here. Has anyone else considered whether it’s beliefs like that that might be pushing love away?

    Is it really true? If I invest in a man, and he doesn’t live up to the trust I placed in him, am I really okay with that?

    No. I’ll speak for myself, but no I’m not okay with that.

    It has occurred to me recently that I have no problem at all getting a refund from my credit card company if a merchant sends me a defective product. Why is that? Because inside I KNOW it’s unacceptable for a merchant to defraud me, and I’m going to do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn’t happen. Why are our standards so much lower with men?

    I, personally, am revamping my belief system to make it unequivocally clear that if a man makes promises to me, he had damn well better keep them. Or there’s going to be hell to pay. Just like with a merchant.


    => And here’s my two cents:

    Re: Being okay – I think we’ve just got a definition problem here.

    This is what “I’m okay” means to me: Of course I’m not okay with “that” – meaning his or anyone’s bad behavior. I have an opinion about it. I have feelings about it. I don’t like it. I have righteous anger and a penchant for justice! BUT –

    I am okay with ME.

    I am okay. I’m okay with my part in things. With what I did and said and thought. I don’t blame him, and I don’t blame me for the way things go. I take it all as a lesson, all as a message.

    I can live just fine, thank you. I can survive just okey-dokey without the man. I will thrive and prosper and have great love.

    If he didn’t want what he said he wanted – if he changed his mind and trampled on my heart and broke promises – I certainty don’t WANT that man in my life, as much as I may FEEL that I do in my heart and body…and I may be deeply triggered to rage and the awakening of all my old traumas.

    The important thing, for me – and I think (I know) you’ll correct me if I’m making this up wrong – is what I do NOW for ME.

    What is the BEST thing for me? What is the most HEALING thing I can do for me? (And, as I do the most healing thing for me – I am going to assume that it is also the most compassionate and healing thing I can do for him, too, if one of my triggering needs is to have global compassion – and I do have that – again, because it feels right and peaceful to ME…ahhh – the self-preservation narcissistic look of universal love….)

    Considering that this man is a therapist for me simply because he has showed up in my life in such intensity and power and triggering gusto – what would be the best way to grow through this experience – without having an agenda or trying to create an outcome?

    Since I’ve worked with my professionally-paid therapists in all manners – I’ve hit them with batacas, and cried naked with them in swimming pools, and curled up with baby bottles in their laps, and rubbed oil in groups of bodies around them, and fallen asleep and gone numb and screamed and cried and raged and pounced and even – yes – had sex with one – I would think I’d have an answer as to what worked best (at least for me).

    And Erika’s answer, and your answer might be different.

    If I’m to consider this man to be therapeutic, even though he’s not being paid (he’s a volunteer) – what would I say would work the best?

    Well – I love hitting pillows with my fists and screaming. I feel wonderful after that. And I did not feel good after hitting men with batacas and my fists and my slapping hands (with their cooperation) – it felt like bad sex.

    It felt like an investment in the man he no longer deserved – he no longer had the right to participate in my process on that deep and intimate level.

    And so what I got out of it was hollow. No real satisfaction. Felt like play-acting.

    When a man doesn’t follow through and disappoints and hurts, we’re enraged. But- truthfully – we’re impotent to change what happened – and if we approach a man to get our “money” back – we’re not going to get it. We may get something else, but not our investment of love – at least not the way we thought it looked when we first gave it away (or perhaps we think we had it stolen from us…?).

    So – we’re back to my determination that “closure” is meaningless, a waste of your divinity, a waste of your practical time and energy, and a move in the wrong direction.

    I am firm in my belief that – though life and circumstance, and experiments we make and do and think and say and feel may shake us off whatever path we’ve chosen – it’s not the PATH that’s important.

    The BRIDGE to your Happy Ever After is WIDE.

    What’s important is to not get distracted. To not toss YOURSELF off the Bridge after a man – whatever the reason may be. A man is not a merchant – to me.

    There is a HUGE difference in expressing yourself to the edge of where it feels good, stop when it starts to feel bad, and trying to get your money back. Would I chase a thief who’s got my purse down the street? Would I chance that he has a gun or a knife? Would I start screaming for folks to help me? I might! Depends what the purse and its contents are to me.

    Or, I might let it go. And I might kick myself for letting it go. Or I might feel glad he didn’t hurt me when he took the purse. No way to know all the possibilities…only what feels right in the moment.

    Once, in a seedy street-corner 7 Eleven in the early evening a man grabbed my wallet out of my hand and ran down the street. Another man, a cute fellow on a motorcycle, was standing near me and saw what happened. Without thinking – he took off down the street, took on the man and got my wallet back. This is a scenario I like a lot. This is the one I like the best.

    Instead of running after the man with my heart tucked under his arm – my heart that he doesn’t want…I would choose for you, if I could, that a new man show up who wants your heart, wants to care for it and water it and cherish it, and wants to give you his.

    Closure is way overrated.

    Love, Rori



  124.  #124Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 11:14 am

    Indigo 79

    Wow. It sounds like a preteen, with the blocking and unblocking.

    Isn’t it liberating when someone makes it so clear that it’s their pattern, not something that we did?

    Sounds like your lack of concern is your liberation. Now, you can take the good things he offers, if you choose to, and when the bad things happen, you shrug it off.

    Good for you.

  125.  #125Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 11:24 am

    Okay, Sirens–

    I propose an off-blog internet field trip.

    The reason I. propose this is there’s a video I’d like to share with you and discuss, if anyone is interested.

    Do a web search using the search terms “Mitchell Webb scarecrow”

    Then watch the short comedy sketch video that pops up.

    Then meet me back here.

    Millie, it’s your post about Band Guy texting you made me think of this. Particularly the use of the word “moonlight.”

    I feel curious about what you Sirens will have to say.


  126.  #126Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 11:36 am

    LoveAlways #120
    I loved the red heels with the wedding dress…
    The toes in the champagne glass
    I LOVE SHOES too!!

  127.  #127Liquid Light on May 17, 2014 at 11:47 am

    I just got a message from my date last night. He sent me a text and said he likes me very much. I sent him back double Smileys. Then he sent me a text if I ask you a question will you tell me the truth? I feel like I’m being set up any thoughts ladies on what he meant by that?

  128.  #128Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 11:55 am

    Cupcake #124
    That was very funny!! LOL
    Had a flipped ending…

    What does it mean???

    Looks don’t matter?
    Poetry spoken softly wins my heart every time? ;-}
    Magical, night skies works too!!!

  129.  #129LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 11:56 am

    Azure Blu

    Those are my two favorites also!!! The Honeymoon “shoe” lol!

  130.  #130LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 12:00 pm


    OMG, that video was a hoot! Scarecrow was charming lol!

  131.  #131Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    I want to try the toes in a champagne glass with champagne poured over!!!
    Mmmmm…. very sensual!!

  132.  #132Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    LoveAlways… my comment about toes in champagne is stuck in moderation…
    A little too ??++**

  133.  #133LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 12:05 pm


    I would sink down into my feelings, get in a comfy spot and just let him ask and respond with feeling messages. If you think you have an idea you can write out your feeling messages ahead, but it might be nice to just be surprised.

  134.  #134Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    Ohhhh… what a enchanting question he textd you…
    Mmmm… I want to remember that…
    So playfulll..
    Is he going to text you the question now?

  135.  #135LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Azure Blu

    Maybe it was the combination? Your post came through. Champagne toes are s3xy he he he

  136.  #136Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Re: the video

    What I take from it is a reminder to pay attention to the “real” guys who have their own struggles with dating and trying to get our attention….

    And that we can often overlook the fact that it just ISN’T going to work with someone, if he is charming and knows how to push our buttons.

    “Enchanted scarecrows” and lifeless dummies…and flustered “real guys” who don’t understand how to step up with no foothold.

    I guess that’s why we have to BE the invitation for them.

    Glad you liked the video. 🙂

  137.  #137Indigo on May 17, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Feminine Woman 91,

    It was him showing me that he had reframed me in his mind in a positive way. I’ve been through this many times with him, and when he comes “back” it’s always in a gentler more positive way.

    It was sweet, and this is what I thought when I opened the picture, sort of “aww”. But I didn’t feel any energy in me moving towards him. I just accepted the picture and left it at that.

    I can’t communicate with him. And when the time comes, I will have to give him a script. Something along the lines of, if he ever finds that he can give me the commitment I need, to come and find me. Until then, I cannot talk to him.

  138.  #138Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Indigo… #136
    I feel your power in this post!!!
    Lots of You LOVING YOU!!!
    sooo soft on the inside
    and Stong on the outside!!
    you inspire me with your sireny vulnerability…

  139.  #139April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm


    I agree.

    Charming poet vs Bumbling and a bit awkward (but kind and considerate). No contest.

  140.  #140Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Liquid Light I would take it that maybe he second guesses himself or he is used to women not being authentic and second guessing himself. Not need to believe that he is setting you up. What power does he have over you anyway? Isn’t he just essentially a stranger?

  141.  #141Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    135 Indigo

    Yay, you!

    I feel so proud of you.

    Although I don’t know if, after all the sulking and blocking and pettiness, I would still have sufficient respect for him to even entertain a proposal for commitment from him.

    Can you put it in a larger picture for me? I know I must be missing part of the equation.

  142.  #142April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I just re-read your words and they feel good to read.

    ” LOVING ALL Of ME!!
    which we know is the KEY to happiness
    No matter who I’m with… ”

    The more I love me, the more I find clarity, and from clarity I can make powerful choices.

  143.  #143Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    April Rose,

    Feeling curious about how it’s going today.

    Will look forward to hearing about your weekend.

  144.  #144Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 1:07 pm


    Send up a flare, girl! Hope all is well.

  145.  #145April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    Hi Love Always,

    I felt excited to read your words to me.

    Yes, I remember that posting. And I remember asking if anyone had a clue how to go about “un-spooling how this came to be inside of me”.

    Any ideas?

  146.  #146April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Hey Cupcake,

    What about Elsie?

  147.  #147Indigo on May 17, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Wow Azure Blu

    Thank you *blushes* I just want to assure you it has taken me a very looong time, lots of pain which broke my heart wide open, lots of negative and instructive experiences which brought me to a place of absolute truth and humility… before I got to this point.

    I would love to say I loved myself enough and knew just what to do from day one, but that just would not be accurate. I am very aware of the grace that brought me here, and that is what makes me soft.

    Thanks sweet siren

  148.  #148Femininewoman on May 17, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Scarecrow movie was a real interesting twist. Reminded me that there is match out there for everyone. Regardless of what we look like. It is not the external that defines our soul or creates a connection. It was what is on the inside shining out.

    Also the kind of communication that touches a persons heart can really create a connection. Scarecrow shared what some might consider a boring existence or life in a very fascinating way. How we frame things can really make a difference.

  149.  #149Indigo on May 17, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    Cupcake 139,

    Thanks for the question, dearest 🙂

    The blocking and unblocking is unquestionably petty and childish, and that he has worrying “flaws” or growth areas is absolutely beyond dispute.

    I won’t go into the negative, because there’s plenty I could say, and I don’t wish to dwell on it any more in my life.

    HOWEVER, there is a lot more to it. D loved me a great deal and though it could never be expressed in ways which were adequate for an adult relationship, I could always sense it there very strongly and still can to this day, and it is one of the most beautiful things I have ever known. I found a peace and contentment with him which I have never come close to with anyone else. There was a fulfillment I experienced in my relationship that I have never approached with anyone else. There is a dim hope in my heart that he may one day work through his immaturity and negative issues and be the prince I dream of.

    It’s just a dream.

  150.  #150Liquid Light on May 17, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    UGG he totally freaked out 🙁

  151.  #151Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    April Rose #141
    Mmmmm… so lovely.. this feels like a breakthrough

    “The more I love me,
    the more I find clarity,
    and from clarity
    I CAN
    make powerful choices.”

  152.  #152Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    Indigo #146…
    I love this
    “and the grace that brought me here”

    I do understand your journey….
    and I now Do have the grace
    to say
    Thank you BK for taking me through
    the fire
    so I could find ME
    and LOVE ALL of ME!!!
    just a few months ago
    I hated him sooo much…
    just part of the process I guess? ;-}

  153.  #153Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    I like what you said here
    ” Scarecrow shared what some might consider a boring existence or life
    in a very fascinating way.
    How we frame things can
    really make a difference.”
    He spoke in a warm intimate voice which was sooo easy to hear…
    while the other man spoke in a brash
    self absorbed voice.

  154.  #154Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    April Rose #144
    I too had to re read that several times…
    “un-spooling how this came to be inside of me”
    My humble idea for me was
    When I have a trigger or a feeling…
    go deep inside and unpeel
    all of the layers that may have caused it
    it usuallly takes me some time to get to
    what may really be the issue
    and when I do find THE feeling
    I softly and gently hold it…
    wrap my warm loving arms around it
    hold it and sing a love song to the feeling.
    or slather it with POL – my Potion of Love (with gardenia sent)
    and Poof… it will change.
    most times the feeling will come up
    off and on but each time
    a little less…
    of course this is just my idea for “unspooling”

  155.  #155luzydel on May 17, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    I am at home alone, I feel fooled by cutecd for pretending he wanted something serious the last time we talked. I feel angry after reading some comments which put men in pedestal. I know it is my own triggers, but it bothers me so much!!

    I would like to just accept my single status, but be open to people in a way that doesn’t feel like I really want a relationship. Like wanting to have a cute pair of shoes, but being just fine with the ones I already have. And if I get the extra cash an may buy them or just invest it on something else.

    So what if I really get rid of desperation and the need to be in a relationship, but keep an open space just to be open to people who come along, but instead of trying to trap them and filling my mind with future thoughts, I just let it be….(really let it be) instead of acting lie I am cool, feeling cool…

  156.  #156Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Azure Blu and FW–

    Wow! I am so glad we are having this conversation.

    I found that the Scarecrow was manipulative and a player. He has a “family of rats living in his torso”- which come to think of it, feels like an accurate description of a few of my exes– but what he shows the girl is just the flowers.

    I felt bad for the”real” guy, whose flustering self absorption comes from frustration and a sense of being set up to fail. (Which he was!)

    And I thought Scarecrow showed his true colors at the end when the girl was out of the room and he laughs at the other guy and calls him a tossed.

    Scarecrow was way tooooooo smoooooth for me. And I feel fascinated that you guys see the scene so differently from me.

    I hope other Sirens chime in here. This is interesting!

    Anyone? (web search: “Mitchell Webb scarecrow” and it is a short comedy video.)


  157.  #157Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 3:20 pm


    I missed something. What happened with cutecd? And why do you think he “pretended” rather than got scared and changed his mind?

    I feel sad thinking of you sitting home alone and pondering things. It sounds like you are being very strong and rational, and it feels like you are feeling disappointed and trying to rationalize your way out of that.

    It’s okay to sink into the feelings. I hope you have watched a couple sad movies or empoweing ones — Working Girl and Little Black Book usually work to help me shift my mood.

    Anyway. Just sending you a shout out.

  158.  #158Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    #144 April Rose–

    I’m not following. Elsie??

  159.  #159LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    April Rose

    Maybe some ‘stepping back’ or ‘no contact days.’ Not like not talking to him or anything, but giving yourself a siren break and focusing STRICTLY on you and taking care of yourself.

    Regrouping. Revitalizing.

    It doesn’t have to be a getaway literally.
    Don’t think about him (I know, easier said than done).
    You can get mani/pedi done somewhere new.
    Go out to somewhere after work alone (museum/dinner/show).
    Go do something you’ve always been interested in or wanted to do.
    Change the colors you wear or fix your hair a different way.


    And while you are doing all of this, focus on how you are feeling.

    Don’t focus on what you do and then how he responds.

    Focus on what you feel, what you do in response to what you feel and how you respond to your environment’s response to you.

    Leave him out of it for a while. Most importantly (and this is a tough one for me personally) . . . start writing down your feelings and from that pull out what you really want to express to him.

    Maybe you really need to work through your feelings and not look at him but at YOU.

    Step back from him emotionally for a little bit and focus your emotions on you alone.

    Step out of being a couple because it feels like you are spinning and you need to get grounded (Modern Siren first element “Rock”). Matter of fact, that’s a good idea. Go through Modern Siren if you have it. If not one of the other programs will do just as well.

    What do you think?

  160.  #160Liquid Light on May 17, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    yuck the guy kinda lost it…when I didn’t get in touch with him immediately and respond to his weird message, he called me and when I didn’t answer he then texted me that I was a liar, that he didn’t like people who lie…somehow he got the notion that I am 10 yrs older than I am and that I was lying to him about my age! So insulting on multiple levels. Feels really off to me and I told him so and basically said goodbye! what a weirdo!!!!

  161.  #161Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Liquid Light-

    So what happened after the text message?

  162.  #162April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    oh. maybe you came just after she stopped posting. Elsie had the classic ‘in love with two men’ dilemma.
    I mentioned her in case you wanted to send up a flare?

  163.  #163April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Thank you Love Always,

    Yes, I have Modern Siren and haven’t studied it for ages. Good call.

    I am going to be away from him for two weeks. We live and work together in an isolated rural town, and so it will exciting to go off to the city and feel the vibrancy and interact with lots of interesting people.

    I love that you used the word ‘renew’. It is exactly what my heart desires for me at this time 🙂

  164.  #164LoveAlways on May 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm


    I would go out with scarecrow and experience the moonlight and listen to his poetry. This is because I want to explore the experience. I want to enjoy this. And it would probably be for just that one moonlit night. I would not kiss him, lol, then, maybe I would. But come the next day, I would know, as I knew the night before, that scarecrow and I are not on the same page (for all the triggers & reasons you pointed out). But yes, I would go. And shame on her friends for the double cross set up. My friends know better than to pull that crap! Lol.

    I felt your response deeply because I’ve been there. Her is a cute article I found that kind of supports why I’d still go out with Scarecrow in the moonlight:


  165.  #165Liquid Light on May 17, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    I love that he showed me who he was so quickly.

    I did nothing, didn’t respond to his text, didn’t answer his call, and he pulled the rug out right from underneath himself…I got to see how rude and insulting he was. Truth is I already had doubts about him, he was way too aggressive, he had an element of sleaziness that I was trying to talk myself out of. Now I see the huge red flags v clearly and so don’t need to waste anymore time on him.

  166.  #166April Rose on May 17, 2014 at 3:46 pm


    I feel so soft and aww thank you, that you feel curious about my day.

    I experienced a big opening of my heart. It came from having guests at my workplace (we sometimes put artists and musicians up for a few nights). Three men stayed. One Englishman and two African musicians. All had beautiful hearts. We laughed and conversed together in various bits of different languages.

    The music was wonderful.

    I have a lingering feeling of the beauty of the desert, and the fisherman by the side of the lake where the sacred spirit sings to the people at night.

    Wonderful stories, music, and hearts. I felt moved.

    It gave me hope that a simple and happy life exists for me to step into. To create. I want to love my life. These men love their life. They told stories and played music with a joy that touched me deep within.

    I could not contain my joy, and found myself feeling open towards WM, just like when we first got together. He responded with warmth and love. We cuddled and kissed outside in the sunshine.

    I am not kidding myself it can stay like that all the time. I’m enjoying it while it lasts!

  167.  #167Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    126 Liquid Light,

    Am I missing something?

    You had a fun date, and he texted you today saying he likes you.

    You responded with smiley faces.

    He writes “If I ask you a question, will you tell me the truth?”

    You don’t respond, so he doesn’t text again.

    Now you feel like he showed true colors and pulled the rug out from under himself?

    Am I missing something?


  168.  #168Liquid Light on May 17, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    yes, he texted me back that “the web said I was 59” and that I lied and that he doesn’t like people who lie…

    I’m 49 and I didn’t lie


    just too weird and like I said feels rude and insulting…his true colors

  169.  #169Andrea on May 17, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    Oooohhh man!! Lovely sirens. Looks like I have a lot of reading to catch up on with the blog. And I feel excited to do it tonight later.

    Just popped in to say I feel so excited about a date I’m going on tonight. I wanted to see this play “Tom Jones” but didn’t want to spring for the expensive tickets.

    I had a plan to go on a road trip to a casino today with a good friend of mine and that fell through. Then, early this morning, who should call me but my Joe. Who I haven’t talked to in a while because he wanted to be a “text boyfriend” so I stopped responding to him.

    He: Andrea, beautiful. I…. haven’t heard from you in a while.
    Me: Oh Joe.. It feels so nice to hear your voice. I feel so happy you called me. It feels so good to get a surprise like this out of the blue. Oh, you know how to make me smile don’t you Joe?
    He: I.. hahah… I always like to make you smile. I want to do something for you. Anything! I want to take you out tonight. Anywhere!
    Me: Usually, Joe, you know I have plans on Saturdays. But my road trip just happened to fall through.. so I’m available… but…. I feel hestitant…
    He: (interupting me) Please. I want to see you. I heard about this play. Tonight is the last showing. would you have any interest in going to see “Tom Jones?” Please come with. If you say yes, I’ll go get the tickets right now and come pick you up at seven.
    Me: Oh Joe, I feel so charmed by you. Okay, Oh I feel so excited now. You just know how to please me don’t you Joe?
    He: I want to. I really want to.

    So, I’m all dolled up and waiting for him to come pick me up. I am so happy. I love it when things work out like this. I just love it!!!

  170.  #170prplpsn28 on May 17, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Hi everyone. Signing onto new thread.

  171.  #171luzydel on May 17, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    @ Cupcake:

    Saying to myself…

    “than got scared and changed his mind” will be making excuses for his behavior which is unacceptable. We spoke and we had a sit own conversation at starbucks, where we both agreed to work on this “relationship”. I knew he is in the military, and that when he was in a mission, I will not expect him to contact me so often. But he has not been on a mission and last week he was on vacation. He told me he spent all day playing with his helicopters, not a mention of meeting for a drink or a stroll to the park. He had the time and texted me a few times, just to keep me hanging. NoOO, I cannot settle for this and make excuses for him. HE IS NOT THAT INTO ME… I jus broke over text with him… I hate doing that, but what gives. I want to date other people and At that starbucks conversation I agreed not to date others (I believed his words of commitment). I need to be clear… I can’t settle for crumbs, he did not get scared, he just didn’t think I was worthy of more… He is wrong!!!

  172.  #172Veronica on May 17, 2014 at 4:53 pm

    Something Rori said in one of her posts in the Heal your Heart section has made such an impact. “Love it even if you don’t like it”

    Thank you Rori.

    I felt curious, I decided to try it – giving myself permission to love. And I’m dreaming of a me that is so in love with my own life. I imagine fantasies of what that would look like, I felt a draining energy as in ‘why do I have to wait for that scenario to happen?’, so I dropped the fantasy but kept the joyful, excited feelings that it inspired in me. “Love it, even if you don’t like it” – radical! And then my present, my existence now felt sooooo beautiful – it just became so beautiful – I don’t know how that happened – a sweetness that is humbling. I felt contented and bliss – it’s like magic, my living my ‘now’ was beautiful. The saturday afternoon lull which is difficult to bear when I’m alone and don’t want to be became a time of serenity – doors and windows and heart wide open. I had my pillows on my bed, looking out the window and watching the birds and the big tree outside – this was a gentle being with me time. In that moment I could see how someone would love to be with me. And noticing me taking care of myself – relishing that pleasure. (Also, not being online helped a lot – it forced me to look around, really get into myself.)

    I couldn’t believe how simple bliss was, kept saying to myself ‘this is awesome’. And also, I was able to be close to my mom, the closeness was warm and beautiful and easy – it felt as though where I was at was filled with magic. My brokenness kept me away from her before – I knew she felt my brokenness, knew the patient waiting love she had for me and her wanting for me to be alive again.
    I just had self-love in me, there wasn’t much room for anything else.

    And I would tell myself ‘no, I’m not afraid to be alone.’

    When I went online, one of my male friends sent me a sweet message. I felt so open and accepting – like flowing water finding it’s path. A beautiful welcome.

    I feel so much love for me, and no matter what’s happening, I can love it, even if I don’t like it.

    And loving me is the difference, that big love for me is the difference. My circumstances haven’t changed. And I’m doing self-loving things for me, making plans so that in a future time, when I forget the self-love, I am reminded just like I was reminded today of my previous self-love acts that allowed me to have a care-free day today. Putting some love into a future time – returning my love to me. Also I felt – I felt all the times in my life where I chose self-love – *connection* : )

  173.  #173Cupcake on May 17, 2014 at 5:24 pm


    The important thing is you know your boundary and you recognized and articulated that you were not happy with what you were getting. You took a stand for yourself. Yay, you!

    You are absolutely worthy of a man’s full attention. And you had every reason to expect his devotion when he asked you for yours.

    He wasn’t the right one, and you know that. And you are moving on. Good for you.

    Somehow I want to remind you that it doesn’t matter what he thought, only how you felt.

    It feels to me like when you say he thought you were only worthy of crumbs, you are judging yourself more than him. What I mean is that I don’t understand why you would even suspect that’s what he thought. It doesn’t matter what he was thinking, only that you weren’t happy with his actions. Which you have wisely and bravely rectified.

    I find it more likely that he suddenly felt obligated to connect with you more, and that made him drag his feet. Not that his assessment of your value changed. Just that men, like everyone else, hate feeling obliged to do anything. Like when I was in school and might be just starting my homework, but if my mom said “Have you done your homework yet?” I would put it off, just because I hated being told to do it.

    I’m not saying that you were pressuring him, because it sounds like you were leaning back. And I understand that you feel disappointed and angry. I just feel sad that you would think he decided you were less than you are.

    It’s been a big lesson for me to recognize that men can value us and still not choose us. And it has been a bitter pill for me to swallow in my own life. I don’t like it one bit.

    But I will tell you what. I like it more than choosing to believe my value was invisible to someone.

    I’m just sorry this happened to you.

    On the bright side, you are one man closer to your true love.


  174.  #174Bo on May 17, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    Please make it possible that I buy your book and your cd from romania through paypal.
    Thank You,

  175.  #175Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    Your absolutely beautiful, warm,
    brightly shinning heart
    deserves the full devotion and adoration
    of a man who can give you that…
    I feel sad that you feel deceived and wronged!!
    It sounds like breaking it off is the best thing you can do for YOU!!!
    I love what Cupcake wrote
    “On the bright side, you are one man closer to your true love. ”
    oxoxo more (((hugs)))

  176.  #176Azure Blu on May 17, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    Veronica #168
    Wow… you are such an inspiration for me today…
    I am always so touched by your authentic, vulnerable voice you share with us…
    Thank you.
    This struck my core… I want to go and do this right now
    “And I’m dreaming of a me that is so in love with my own life. I imagine fantasies of what that would look like”
    I do know I SHOULD like my life as it is…
    LOVE my life
    But then I see how well all my friends live.
    How easy there lives are because of different circumstances than mine…
    I feel I have let myself down…
    I need to visualize
    THIS Life
    My Life
    IS the BEST!!!
    Is it Shame
    I feel?
    I need to take that feeling
    in my pelvic
    that shame
    and gently
    hold it
    softly (I really feel like choking it)
    embrace this shame of mine
    she is part of ME
    I Love MY shame
    I will always LOVE her…

  177.  #177Mandy on May 17, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    I will open up –

    I have cold sores, AKA oral herpes, and even though it’s not “down there”, I still feel a sense of moral obligation to totally be honest and not let J kiss me when I have an outbreak due to stress. J has been SO understanding and sweet, and knows that I will take care of the outbreak and kiss him again when I am healed up.

    He didn’t freak out at all, and I think it’s because I waited until it was necessary – i.e., when there was a risk of transmission due to open sores.

    It wasn’t a big deal for us 🙂

  178.  #178Mandy on May 17, 2014 at 7:24 pm

    By the way,

    Anyone who wants to weigh in…

    What Rori programs and/or tools help you with not “beating yourself up”, guilt, or fear of rejection? In short, feelings of unworthiness?

  179.  #179Tereana on May 17, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    LL – Like everything on the Internet is true? Lol… Sounds like you dodged a bullet. He seems ready to mistrust, which is a pretty big red flag, I’d say….

    Indigo – that makes more sense about the horse picture now. At first, I actually thought it was a nice thing. Then it occurred to me that calling a woman a horse can be kind of an insult. He obviously didn’t mean that. But still. If you know his patterns and you are not comfortable writing back, there’s not need : )

  180.  #180Tereana on May 17, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Mandy – yay for being open! Oral herpes is the most common kind, I believe. It’s really easy to get, and not just from kisding romantically. So nice that he’s understanding, too!

  181.  #181Mandy on May 17, 2014 at 8:12 pm


    Oh, no problem, actually to be honest, I have Tourette’s Syndrome as well, which I have dealt with the same issues with, during dating. Some have appreciated my openness, mostly females, but I got the impression men felt it was a lot of info all at once! It’s hard not to blurt it out sometimes in defense…

    Point being, the Tourette’s is MUCH harder for me to talk about because I can’t hide it…sometimes I have an involuntary vocalization that sounds just like barking, and people look at me and I just have to breathe through it, but talking about it…woooo!!! – tough one, even though I’ve made it through the conversation many times and people have warmed and opened up to me for it 🙂

  182.  #182Tereana on May 17, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    So interesting…in my mind right now, I’m comparing the breakup with M to what happened with S. I was VERY sad after breaking up with M, for about three days. And then I was over it. I haven’t really had an urge to contact him, write big, long letters, etc. I just – moved on. Easily.

    And it is soooo different with S. Why should I be so invested with him? He did not want to get married. He doesn’t want kids. He never offered me a relationship of any kind (and I would not have accepted). Yet we slept together and it felt good. There was something very special that happened there, both for me and him. And I know that whenever we get close, he pushes me away. He admitted it, even.

    And then, when I was visiting him for a few days, we were very close, obviously. And then he pushed me away VERY strongly. It feels terrible. It feels awful and bad and negative, and it feels FALSE. I can’t put my finger on exactly what, but something – or things – he was telling me were bullsh*t. Definitely most of the stuff about me wasn’t true. And I think even some things about me. It’s all BS in my mind. I think he’s even BS-ing himself. But I have to let him do it, right?

    I am still wrestling with the notion of writing to him or not. I kind if want to just express some feelings in a real way. But then the other part of my brain is like, “no, it’s only going to hurt him, and maybe you if you write.” So I write and save the letters. Ugh. This just never even came up with M. And I hate to feed S’s ego. Nor do I want to make stuff about me….

    Ok. I just wanted to share here to help process. Thank you ladies for listening 🙂

  183.  #183Tereana on May 17, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    Oh wow. Mandy, that’s definitely a challenge. But it sounds like you handle it well! Growing up, I had a family friend who had Tourette’s. He actually took me on a date when I was in high school. Kind of weird. He was a few years older than me, and I didn’t realize until we were out that it was a “date.” Lol. But anyway. He’s married and has kids now. So obviously not a major hindrance!

  184.  #184Mandy on May 17, 2014 at 8:57 pm


    That’s actually pretty fascinating to me…So, I’m feeling extra super curious, did he have any involuntary movements or vocalizations at all on the date? If so, did you feel funny or did you just go with it? Wow, I feel so curious! I usually pick people who have a good sense of humor and who I can see handling that type of thing, lol! 🙂

  185.  #185luzydel on May 17, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Cupcake, thanks

    Something I am learning from men is that they test you to give you the least possible. My nonchalant attitude, and me not pressuring him may have led him to think that it was ok not to contact me or make some time to see each other. I was ok to see once a week, but then he just totally abandoned me. he texted me saying, sorry I couldn’t give you what you needed, then some other excuses for why he was so busy… I feel like the heaviness is gone. I just want to be alone for a bit to process how I feel…

  186.  #186luzydel on May 17, 2014 at 10:38 pm

  187.  #187Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 12:01 am


    I sent you a reply but it’s sitting in moderation 🙂

  188.  #188Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 12:12 am


    I agree with Cupcake when she said “It feels to me like when you say he thought you were only worthy of crumbs, you are judging yourself more than him. What I mean is that I don’t understand why you would even suspect that’s what he thought.”

    And when you said this: “Something I am learning from men is that they test you to give you the least possible”

    And this: “he just didn’t think I was worthy of more”

    Have you ever thought to ask yourself, really ask yourself, why your mind keeps going to these assumptions?

    Do you deep down believe that you are not worthy of love and so a man is just waiting for an opportunity to pull the rug out from under you?

    If your mind keeps going to feelings of rejection and abandonment and people not wanting to love you, that tells you something about your beliefs… NOT about those people, or about how worthy and loveable you are.

    I ask because this is something I recently had to ask myself. Why was I causing myself more pain by assuming that people didn’t love me, didn’t want to do for me, were just waiting for an opportunity to reject me?

    This is false thinking and will leave you feeling bad about yourself. As my mom would say: The problem is NEVER that you weren’t loved/loveable enough!

    Yes he didn’t contact you to see you for a whole weekend. Not nice. I recently went through this myself. But maybe he was off in his own world, off on guy time or just being himself which was different from your expectations. No it may not be what you want for a relationship, but it doesn’t mean it had anything to do with you or your worth.

    Please think about this. I hate to see a woman going down a path of beliefs that are sabotaging her happiness (I’m healing from this).

    *hug* x

  189.  #189Tereana on May 18, 2014 at 3:01 am

    That was a really nice letter, luzydel..

  190.  #190Shannon P. on May 18, 2014 at 5:57 am

    Hi all.

    I’m still in a shelter, although it’s actually a housing program. Their whole purpose is to help those who have become homeless to not only find housing, but to find housing that they will remain in.

    They have a nearly unbelievable 86.9% success rate in people going into housing and not becoming homeless again. For a ‘shelter’, that’s beyond amazing.

    So, I’m going to take full advantage of it. I’m trying right now to enroll in a program that will get me my CNC Certification. CNC is machining computer operation. I have always had an extremely high mechanical aptitude. It’s so high that, on the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery Test), they couldn’t score me as a woman–I maxxed out the men’s chart. However, I didn’t have the sheer physical strength to do the work as an auto technician (what I studied for when I was younger). This certification blends the mechanical with the computer–two things I love, love, love.

    The class, if I’m accepted into it, begins on June 9. So basically, I will be homeless for 5 more months–8 weeks to get the certificate, and then 3 months to save up enough to get an apartment for Kira and me.

    Right now, my ex and I are 50-50 custody with Kira, but I have a pending request to reconsider in with the court. Who knows how that will go, but all I can do is try.

    I really hate the situation. I feel terrified for my daughter, and I don’t understand why he uses her as a tool to punish me. I truly do not have the capacity to understand why some people enjoy bring others pain.

    But, it’ll be okay. I just have to step up the work of getting her to a point where she can care for her own diabetes, because he won’t. I just hope she survives that long.


    Anyway. Big changes going on over here. Relationships or even the thought of one are all on the far back burner. Not interested right now; very turned off by the very idea, lol. Which is good, I need to focus hard on this situation and getting us squared away.

    Thinking of you all, just wanted you all to know that I read but rarely get to comment.

    ~ shannon

  191.  #191Shannon P. on May 18, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Mandy, I just wanted to mention that, instead of looking up “how to not beat myself up”, what I would suggest is doing some internet searches on “how to forgive myself.”

    Something that isn’t discussed in cases of rape and child abuse is self forgiveness. People insistently say, “It wasn’t your fault, and you shouldn’t feel guilty.”

    This, unfortunately, rarely really helps. It’s an intellectual thing… I KNOW (intellectually) that it wasn’t my fault. Yet I can still FEEL guilt or shame for various things; not being strong enough, not hitting back, not knowing better, not doing better, etc. and etc.

    Whether these FEELINGS are RIGHT OR WRONG is not the issue. Whether these FEELINGS make sense and are logical doesn’t even matter. You feel what you feel. If you FEEL guilty, saying “you shouldn’t” is useless.

    My mother was murdered when I was a child. I was told by the people who murdered her, “If anyone ever tries to take you away from us, we’ll kill them.” I BEGGED my mother to take me and run away. Take me and never come back (they were foster parents, she had NO legal right to me at the time).

    Now. I was not in any way, shape, or form at fault there. I was SIX!

    That didn’t change the FACT that I FELT guilty. I FELT wrong and bad for begging her to take me and run away when I’d been warned what they would do.

    And no amount of intellectual understanding made that feeling go away. No amount of “you shouldn’t feel guilty” made me quit feeling guilty.

    You need to acknowledge that you feel guilty and that you need your own forgiveness. Stop saying how you SHOULD feel, and deal with how you DO feel. Should or shouldn’t has nothing to do with it.

    So sink into that feeling. Rile it up. Make it huge. Let it exist. Bring it into the light, examine it, accept it, acknowledge it. Whether you should or not, you DO feel guilty. Don’t resist it. Embrace it and acknowledge it.

    “I feel guilty because [whatever].” That’s the truth. Right, wrong, or indifferent, you feel guilty. What if you acknowledge it and accepted it? What if you weren’t ashamed of feeling guilty, and just put it out there, and started treating yourself the way you’d treat anyone else who felt guilty?

    If I told you that I felt guilty about something, what would you say to me? If I said I had hurt your feelings and I was sorry, what would you say to me?

    Well, you’re not different from me. Treat yourself the way you’d treat others–because we often treat others far better than we treat ourselves. Be kind to yourself about your guilt. Don’t agree with the guilt anymore, but do acknowledge it and say that you’re sorry.

    You don’t always have to be WRONG before you can be sorry. I wasn’t WRONG to beg my mom to take me away… but I am SORRY that I did. I’m sorry to my mom… and I’m sorry to ME.

    Tell yourself that you’re sorry. Tell yourself that it doesn’t matter if you were right or wrong in what you did; you’re just sorry. Then tell yourself that you forgive yourself. Then tell yourself that you accept your apology. Do it until it FEELS like forgiveness.

    Because all too often, our feelings aren’t logical and don’t care what they SHOULD be. They are what they are, and they need to be accepted for what they ARE, not chastised for what they SHOULD be.

    There are a LOT of suggestions all over about how to forgive yourself. But one of the best is simply to stop holding onto the feeling. Don’t resist it or grab onto it. Neither push it down nor dwell in it. Let it pass into and through you. “I feel angry at myself. I feel guilty. I feel humiliated. I feel ashamed. BUT I’M OKAY.”

    Because you’re always okay. You may not FEEL okay just now, but you’re always okay. So accept the feeling, and know that you’ll always be okay.

    It’s okay to feel guilty, if that’s what you really feel. Just don’t take up residence there, and don’t refuse to feel what you really feel.

  192.  #192Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 7:11 am

    Tereana #176
    I feel your anxiety about whether to send a letter to S or not…
    I have struggled with this very issue with bfs I have had…
    After Rori (like you are saying) I would write and rewrite letters…
    Sometimes I sent them and sometimes I didn’t…
    Somehow, me writing my feelings and sending it was the best thing because I have a tendency to NOT speak up for ME.
    A tendency To clam up and run away…
    I believe what is best for ME
    is to share my feelings
    I Do need that practice…
    For me,
    writing my feelings down
    Writing and rewriting…
    For clarity and simplicity
    Until I had more peace and
    got to a place where what he did with my letter
    didn’t matter (welll… mattered less 🙂

    dearest siren…
    you have such a sweet, kind heart..
    YOU deserve a man who will Wholeheartedly LOVE ALL of YOU and NOT judge and criticize
    But accept ALLLL of YOUR LOVELYness, Beauty,
    “all your curves and all your edges
    All your perfect imperfections!!!”

    Something Cupcake wrote
    I thought was appropriate for you too….

    “You are absolutely worthy of a man’s full attention.

    He wasn’t the right one, and you know that. And you are moving on. Good for you.”

    “Somehow I want to remind you that it doesn’t matter what HE thought, only how YOU FELT.”

    and then another post Cupcake said:
    “Isn’t it liberating when someone makes it soooo clear that it’s THEIR pattern,
    not something that YOU did?”

    I love what Cupcake wrote here…
    “On the bright side, you are one man closer to your true love. ”
    Cupcake I hope you don’t mind
    am borrowing from some of your wonderful posts….

  193.  #193Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 7:26 am

    Mandy #173
    Not sure if this is helpful…

    Rori Says:

    “The trick for us is to get so “aware” of our emotions –
    the patterns of them,
    what triggers them,
    how they morph and change and shift,
    and how it feels to not so much “manage” them
    as “feel” them.

    And as that awareness grows
so does your faith in YOURSELF.
In other words – your self-esteem and

    self-respect can grow powerfully

    as you become aware of,

    accept, love and express your emotions
    on deeper and deeper levels.

    When you speak the word “feel”
and use it as a channel to

    express what you feel –
you’re working on “all burners.”

    1. Becoming aware of what you feel

    2. Putting words to what you feel

    3. Expressing what you feel in a way that involves no one but you –
and so is totally, 100% safety-making,

    world and man-trusting,

    world and man honoring…

    and profoundly moving in the classical, artistic sense.”

    This is just MY way of interpreting the Rori tools
    What has helped me is when I have feelings of
    I take that feeling and call it by name…
    I gently talk to that feeling, tenderly wrap my arms around that feeling…
    I softly say to Guilt “I LOVE you, Guilt,
    You are part of ME
    I accept YOU
    cherish you and love you…
    You are part of me and I LOVE ALL OF ME!”
    Sometimes this helps right away…
    Sometimes -if its a bigger feeling…
    Like for me, right now -Shame is causing me to pause and work with her..
    Shame rears her lovely head of and on and I take her in my arms (although I really want to strangle her) and keep loving on her…
    What do you think?

  194.  #194luzydel on May 18, 2014 at 7:35 am

    Indigo, Cupcake…

    You are right I tend to beat myself up and just assume men aren’t into me. I start going to the route of me not being ______ enough for them and they felt bad so the rather ignore me so I get the hint.

    Truth is that Cutecd was not ready for a relationship, he is leaving military and wants to catch up lost time with his children. Maybe he thought he could handle being in a relationship. I did enjoy him when we did spent time together, but a relationship has to grow or it will die.

    I want to start simple dating again, I wanted something serious so bad, that I forgot to listed to the hidden words men say.

  195.  #195Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Shannon P.
    Darling girl…
    Wow… soooo good to hear from you. (((hugs)))
    I have followed your posts and..
    You can’t imagine how BRAVE I think you are
    for taking this big step and moving away
    from the bad, impossible situation with your ex…
    How AMAZed and Inspired I feel by you…
    YOU taking exquisite, loveing care of YOU!!!
    is LIFE affirming
    and how loving you are to your daughter…

    I feel humbled, truly humbled reading your story of your life and about your mom.
    How authentic and vulnerable you are to share with us
    YOUR story.
    I am sooo sorry for your loss of your mom
    and the horrific way her death happened.
    (((hugs))) oxoxo
    How VERY far you have come and how Beautiful, adorable, Strong and courageous…
    YOU ARE an inspiration to ME.

  196.  #196Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 7:50 am

    Mandy #176 & 172
    Your heart is sooo warm, bright and glowing

    How vulnerable and authentic you are…
    Sharing and trusting yourself with us.

    I feel humble reading how Brave you are
    and how positive you are through it all..
    YOU and Shannon P. are an inspiration to ME.
    You make me happy to know the beauty you bring to the world!!!

  197.  #197Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 7:58 am


    It is great that you have clarity on what happened in your relationship with Cutecd. Please keep that clarity close and resist any thought that says you weren’t ______ enough for him. I believe you have to allow people the space to love you, and to do that, you have to love you.

  198.  #198Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 8:01 am

    Mmmmm… Mighty, Mighty powerful words
    feel warm and sunny reading this

    “I believe you have to allow people the space to love you,
    and to do that,
    you have to LOVE YOU.”

  199.  #199luzydel on May 18, 2014 at 9:07 am

    “”I believe you have to allow people the space to love you, and to do that, you have to love you.””

    The space I will give is to take care of me, and swim around my seas freely and open like a mermaid. I need to start thinking on the purchase of small condo and to get my passport and finish grad school and keep going to the gym and eat healthy. Things I haven’t done because I procrastinate and never felt I could do it or I deserve it. I will keep a space open for someone to love me, but I cannot stop swimming for him because then I will sink. If a man wants me he has to swim at my same pace. He will get the best love I can give, but he has to love me as well. There is a story from the Book the mastery of love about “the Divine Huntress” It is something I want to achieve…

  200.  #200luzydel on May 18, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Here it is …Artemis the Divine Huntress… A real Siren!!!


  201.  #201Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 9:28 am

    D messaged me again, and this time asked how I was doing.

    I had a script all prepared, and then I was going to not reply at all, and eventually all I could muster was “I’m fine.”

    I feel shakey. I am NOT going to chase a man.

  202.  #202Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 9:29 am

    A guy friend of mine today took me on a beautiful day trip to the countryside. Took me for a gorgeous lunch of beef medallions and veggies and wine and apple tart… in a very luxurious spa hotel, and he paid for the lot.

    It was great 🙂

  203.  #203Azure Blu on May 18, 2014 at 10:02 am

    What fun with your guy friend… sounds sooo gorgeous!!
    Stay strong ohhhh powerful, Siren!!
    Warrior Goddess…
    NOT chasing a man is YOU

  204.  #204Liquid Light on May 18, 2014 at 10:57 am

    I sent that guy from Friday date a goodbye message yesterday. Easy come, easy go. Oh well. There was something off about him that made me uncomfortable. The main thing was that he was really aggressive physically. The other weird thing I noticed about him is that others didn’t really like him, like the waitstaff at the restaurant and the concierge in the lobby. He was rude and ordered them around and I could tell that they didn’t like him. Yuck.

  205.  #205BeLoved on May 18, 2014 at 11:20 am

    How Mastering All 5 Senses Can Get You What You Want


    ” You’re a woman going on a first date. What color blouse should you wear—red, green, blue, or gray?

    In a study on the effect of color, men were shown pictures of the same woman, but wearing different color blouses—each man saw one picture with the woman wearing either a red, blue, green or gray blouse. The men consistently rated the image of the woman in the red blouse as sexier and more attractive. They also reported a greater desire to date the woman in red, and were willing to spend more money on a date with her than the same woman in a green, blue or gray blouse. Of note: The men did not perceive the woman in red to be more intelligent, kind, or likable—just more alluring. (Remember, it was the same woman in all the images. Only the color of her blouse was different.)

    Therefore, women may want to consider wearing red on a first date (and having a warm beverage).”

  206.  #206Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 11:25 am

    I gave a script ultimately. It was this:

    “if you ever find you can give me what I need, please come and find me
    until then, please don’t talk to me
    I am sorry, I would love to talk to you
    but I just can’t.”

    I feel so peaceful. I feel peace returning to me and settling on me. I feel my faith soaring within me like a bird. It was the right thing to say. I feel peace within me.

    Thank you, sirens, for being here for me.

  207.  #207Femininewoman on May 18, 2014 at 12:29 pm


  208.  #208Liquid Light on May 18, 2014 at 12:43 pm


    I just saw this on Facebook:

    “Most women desire someone who makes them laugh and also feel safe, so basically a clown Ninja.”

    Couldn’t help but smile and think of you! 🙂

  209.  #209Mandy on May 18, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Your words have deeply touched me..I’m very serious when I say this.
    Sometimes I forget how brave I am.

    It is actually something very special, my dad survived two terminal cancers, and watching that I thought, huh, piece of cake, I laughed at the Tourette’s, because it can’t kill or hurt me.

    I’d really like to share an important tidbit that is very Sireny….my dad and I, we are in the moment even when we have troubles such as these…so, being in the moment, is accepting what’s happening, and being okay with it, and maybe making a little inside joke with your friend or family member about it 🙂

    But that strength to stand the in the face of adversity is ALL about being in the moment and accepting that moment!

  210.  #210Tam on May 18, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Indigo, whoa, reminds me so much of my communication with MrP. He would stay quiet for a bit and then just ignore my wishes and communicate anyway, and it just kept going on and on. The only way I found in the end, is not to reply to him at all. I read somewhere that as soon as we reply, they get the message ‘it’s on’ rather than ‘it’s off until you give me what I want’. Unfortunately I found this to be 100% true.
    Still even now. The man never changed one bit, but he was good at making me (maybe himself too), believe he could do what I wanted. All the way to a botched proposal….
    Now, if I don’t want contact, I don’t reply. They know why.

  211.  #211Tam on May 18, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    Love to you!

  212.  #212Mandy on May 18, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    Azure Blu – Oh! PS –

    Well, the part where I say “guilt, I love you”

    I feel like I’m lying to myself, and I never know where to go with it. Because I truly hate the feeling. I do have big problems with riffing. Sometimes it helps when I say I love my guilt because it teaches me, or that my feelings are a direct result of something I’m not over yet, and they are telling me some part of needs nurturing or fixing, sort of like the body, when it is sick and having symptoms, telling a person to go to the doctor. The feelings are my emotions saying “Hey, need some help in this department!”

    Maybe I just needed to see the words typed out after I typed them because I just had an epiphany with the body metaphor 🙂

  213.  #213Tam on May 18, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    I am now at the stage I feel neutral, I would be fine never to see him again, ever. If he walked down the street, ok.
    Of course he still tries like mad to get close to me. After 4 years, I have had my fill.

  214.  #214Mandy on May 18, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Shannon P,

    Wow, that is an incredible story and I’m full of feelings of awe right now reading all of it, it’s a lot to take in.

    Not sure where the feelings come from. Wasn’t abused, but typical story of military father who made a career out of the Air Force, who would scream at me like a drill instructor if I so much as spilled my orange juice.

    So every time I screw something up I beat myself up about it. But I’ve heard of talking to oneself as though you were talking to a friend helps. I will try it out.
    I just did some, explaining to myself that accidentally jumping in front of someone in line the other day without knowing it wasn’t’ doing anything terribly awful, it’s not like I ran over someone’s puppy, but with how I felt about it, you’d think I did!!!

    Feelings…it’s just dealing with the voice in my head that is like a drill instructor going “Maggot!” 😛 Pretty rough voice huh??? A tough-ass, a bully.

    I need to boss it back by letting myself know that if anything happens, people make mistakes and it’s not the end of the world and I shouldn’t feel awful for every little move I make. I know I said shouldn’t feel, but no one should have to live like that feeling awful about every move they make.

    I actually saw a woman on Love Scripts who was just like me who Rori interviewed. She finally figured out that the woman, who had a military father as well, was abut beating herself up and Rori gave her a big hug. It really resonated with me.

    As you can imagine, J tells me to not let it ruin my day and that makes it worse, so I’ll need to go take a bubble bath and riff it out. It’s not so bad. I love being able to break away and be alone for a moment and feel the water warming my skin, it is a genius and tactful move. I am so thankful for this discussion group and Rori.

    I finally sank into my feelings yesterday and I could feel J trying to make me feel better. It was very sweet he made lunch and dinner and sat outside with me and watch movies with me cuddling. 🙂

  215.  #215Mandy on May 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    Shannon P – PS –

    I am very impressed with you. No one I’ve ever known in a bad situation has ever had the guts to go to a shelter. Good on you for looking out for number one!

    You are an inspiration!

  216.  #216Cupcake on May 18, 2014 at 3:50 pm


    I have been thinking about you today, and feeling very big sistery.

    Tell me you didn’t drive over to the Scarecrow-musician’s house last night for the “moonlight” and whatever session….

    I felt really irked that he texted you that invitation, when his roomie just happens to be out of town. And that then when you suggested he come to you, he said maybe some other time.

    Every time I have checked the board today, I’ve wondered if there’s an update from you.

    You remind me of my old self. I want to teleport through the internet sometimes and talk to you.

    Hopefully, you didn’t go. When I was your age though, I would have gone. I would not go now though. And I wish I had Rori twenty or thirty years ago. I would have been a lot better equipped to make choices that would have built a better life.

    I’m getting there now. Just laugh at myself sometimes, remembering things my sister told me not to do that I did anyway, only to regret and wonder how she knew exactly how they would turn out.

    Anyway. Sending you a hug and hoping you are smarter than old me was.

  217.  #217Zara on May 18, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Get The Love You Want Instead Of Solving Problems – The FLIP

    If your mind, your heart, and your energy are filled to the brim with “problems” to solve, you are so not alone…

    …not only am I working with my own instincts around problem-solving, I’ve received beautiful lists of “problems from lovely women like you (please send more – this is not only incredibly helpful for us all – it’s FUN – it’s like a game).

    And it feels so good to get your list off your head and heart and energy and onto paper, where you can start to take ACTION around some of your “problems.”

    First, let’s make this post about NOTICING what’s on your list and looking at it in different ways. Then we’ll move on to action steps, and basically turning the whole concept of “problem to solve” into a more fluid, easy, feminine way to go about experiencing, enjoying, and improving your life on a moment-by-moment basis.

    Some “problems” seem to require only easy, quick fixes that we can do in five minutes or less (clean off the kitchen table, load the dishwasher, put on makeup, get up earlier so we’re less rushed, make a healthy snack instead of a picking up a ready-made poisonous one, and on and on…)

    And some “problems” require huge, momentous, life-altering CHANGE (fixing anything about your man – his health, drinking, appearance, sexual abilities, kindness, generosity, romantic and affectionate nature, work, stress…. and fixing anything you believe you need to fix about yourself (we women can come up with long, long lists of those…).

    There’s a very old prayer, the “Serenity Prayer” that goes: “God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”
    So – basically – this is what we’re all about here – knowing the difference between what we can and can’t change.

    And almost all of us here on Earth have it wrong.

    We’re all going about trying desperately to change things we can’t – thinking about it, worrying about it, figuring things out about it. We work so hard trying to figure out every angle of how to make these things change, how to make these things happen, that we completely have no energy left over to change the things we CAN change.

    And the weird and amazing thing is – if we put our energy into changing what we CAN change – even the teeny-weeny tiny things that seem useless and small at the time – often, the BIG things will change all by themselves.

    We’ve seen that in action. If you stop eating processed sugar in your cereal every morning, it seems like a small thing. It’s a pain, because you have to alter your schedule, you have to buy a different brand, you have to change your habit, you get grumpy – and it seems like way too small a thing to make even a tiny dent in the 30 pounds you want to lose, or the fatigue you feel, or the mood swings you’re experiencing.

    And yet, if you just stop eating sugar in your cereal every morning – you will lose weight, you will have more energy in the morning, and you’ll feel better.

    Then, after a week of that positive experience, you try eating a piece of fruit instead of pudding for dessert, or try sparking water when you’re out with friends or on a date instead of wine, beer, or a “Cosmopolitan,” or give up anything with chemicals in it (including artificial sweeteners), and – wow – you have the same experience. It’s not overnight, but after a bit, you notice you’ve lost weight, you have more energy, and you feel better.

    It’s the same with love.

    We can get so focused on the big things of what’s wrong with our man, our relationship, our family, our work, the whole of our lives – and that can feel so overwhelming – that we ignore the small things we CAN change – now.

    And on the other side of the coin – there are BIG things out there in the world, and in our relationships, in our finances, in our work, in our PLEASURE, that we CAN change – but we don’t believe in ourselves or our power enough to think we CAN.

    So if success is all about telling the difference between what you can change and what you can’t change, let’s work on that.

    Here are two wonderful lists from Daria and Reshi:

    => This is Daria’s

    How I can make my mom be happy and not depressed
    How I can make my God-sister get healthy and not die
    How I can help my God-sister want to find a job or some kind of fulfilling life purpose
    How I can help my God-brother find a job
    How I can help my God-brother be a good man and father
    How I can help my God-brother and sister get back together
    How I can feel closer to my God-sister
    Whether it’s ok for me to give money to people
    How I can get a guy I dated to be a good person
    How I can get a guy I dated and was friends with to heal himself, and better his life
    Worrying my dad’s health will deteriorate because he stresses too much, works too much, and has done the Atkins diet for too long
    Worrying my mom’s physical health will decline because she had a hysterectomy and isn’t totally self conscious
    How I can make my butt get bigger and my stomach smaller
    Feeling guilty about dating guys I don’t find sexually attractive
    Worrying that I won’t find a guy to actually come pick me up instead of wanting me to drive
    Worrying that if I start making lots of new friends I’ll be abandoning my old friends
    Feeling like if I don’t pay attention, care for, and love them some of my friends can die from violence
    Worrying that my dad and I will never see eye to eye
    Feeling incompetent because I have information to help other people but don’t deliver it in a effective way
    Feeling guilty that I’m tutoring for a higher income market instead of disadvantaged students
    Feeling like by the time I get powerful enough to really help people it will be too late
    Feeling sad because some people died
    Feeling confused over whether the eye-for-an-eye or the turn-the-other-cheek philosophy is best
    Feeling discouraged because I might not get to be an actress, performer, super successful investor, dancer, writer, and everything I’d like to be
    Feeling worried that if I move to Brazil I’d be abandoning my friends
    Feeling worried that people in my home country are becoming more superficial and sad
    Feeling angry at how the world is run
    Feeling powerless to help it be run the way I want
    Worried that if it was run the way I wanted it would all turn bad because it’s too idealistic
    Feeling scared because I’m 26 and I’m not seriously considering marriage
    Feeling worried because I am getting wrinkles under my eyes
    Feeling worried because I might have a health issue with my kidneys
    Feeling worried that my toes won’t go back all the way to the way they were before I started wearing pointed shoes
    Feeling annoyed that I don’t have the confidence to write/sing the way I do in my imagination
    Feeling frustrated that I won’t get energy therapy to work
    Feeling discouraged that I haven’t made lots of wonderful paintings like in my imagination
    Feeling like I am never really going to feel like writing stories or a book
    Feeling worried my stories and poems are not good
    Feeling worried that I will start to crave sex again and feel lonely and lose my power
    Feel annoyed that I don’t have orgasms easily like some people
    Feeling worried that I will hurt certain guys’ feelings if I tell them how I feel
    Feeling frustrated that people from my home country and people I admire over here don’t always share the same views
    Feeling worried that I won’t find any guy to really understand me
    Feeling guilty that if I start seriously dating a guy with a kid I am hurting his kid
    Feeling SOO frustrated hearing my parents fight and knowing I have communication tools available to help but not the tools or confidence to get them to apply them

    => This is Reshi’s

    Marriage problems between my husband and me in general
    Being afraid he’ll never tell me he loves me again
    Being afraid he’ll never want to share a bed again
    Being afraid he’ll never want to have sex again
    Being afraid I won’t make enough money
    Worrying that his health will decline because he doesn’t exercise or take care of himself
    Being afraid that if I express anything to him, he will get angry at me and love me less
    Worrying that he’s not attracted to me and is more interested in other women
    Worrying that he’s going to turn out to be a feminine man and I’ll have to leave him
    Worrying that I’ll have to move out of the house or do something equally drastic in order for him to realize he loves me — and planning ahead for that moment
    Worrying that I’ll get fat
    Trying to figure out how I’m going to update my wardrobe with what little money I make
    Trying to figure out how I’m going to tackle the financial problems we have
    Wondering how I’ll ever be able to go back to school and prepare for a better career
    Worrying about the constant aches and pains in my body
    Worrying about whether I’ll ever find love again if I have to get divorced, or if I’m going to be considered “damaged goods”
    Worrying about the fact that my hair is falling out
    Wondering whether I should start dating other men, or whether it’s OK to start dating other men, or whether I even WANT to start dating other men
    Wondering if I have a place to go if I have to get divorced

    Now let’s do this:

    1. Pull out your own list of “problems” (I will too.)

    2. Take a look at these two lists here, and let’s get a general idea of the theme behind each. If you look carefully, and then just sink out of your head and into your body, you’ll be able to “feel” the themes.

    At first, they’ll both seem the same – there’s worrying, a sense of overwhelm, and so many difficult, huge “problems” that clearly need solutions. Big issues, like health, financial stability, meaningful work, love and sex.

    But if you really get in touch with them, you’ll see that Daria’s list is screaming out at us that “I’m not enough. I’ll never be enough, no matter what I do. I am powerless. All I can do is be nice and good, and feel guilt and do more good works, because I am at the mercy of others.”

    And Reshi’s is screaming “I’m very powerful – I can leave, I can hurt, I can be successful, but I’m too afraid to be who I am. Something bad will happen if I fully express myself and my power.”

    And here’s the amazing, amazing thing….even though they’re feeling very differently, even though a therapist might work on different issues with them – the basic thing we’re working with here is the SAME…both Daria and Reshi’s mind, heart and energy are being sucked up by this list of “problems” – almost all of which are NOT controllable by Daria and Reshi. NOT things they can change as a whole, that they can swivel, and manipulate into being “okay” or “right.”

    But it’s hard to see that, and accept that, because WITHIN these huge issues (and almost all of us have these same huge issues in our own lives and on our own lists), there are small, tiny things – itty-bitty ACTIONS we CAN take. And these itty-bitty actions can actually cause change to happen in the direction we want things to go.

    HOWEVER – because we don’t EVER, EVER have control over the RESULTS of so many of the actions we take (we can do our total best audition for a choir and still not get in, we can clean the dishes in the sink this time, but we can’t guarantee the sink won’t get piled up ever again, we can love a man brilliantly and still not be able to make him love us back if he doesn’t “feel it” all by himself…), because we feel so powerless in so many ways…we’re afraid to even start.

    We think – “Well, I could stop eating sugar in my cereal, I could look into new jobs and start volunteering in a field I might be interested in, I could flirt with other men before I think about whether or not I could date other men, I could do small “walk-aways” in my relationship before I worry about leaving him….and yet,” we think, ” That won’t help.”

    We become overwhelmed by the huge “problem” and drained by the energy it takes to even think about solving it – that we opt out of doing the small steps that are easy and right in front of us.

    And why?

    Because change – even the change we WANT – is scary.

    It’s scary because, at bottom, we are where we are because we’re comfortable where we are. And huge change – no matter how fantastic it sounds – is terrifying to our systems.

    So – what we want to do here is find a baby-step way that our systems can tolerate and that we can ENJOY that will lead us to these major changes we say we want, so that we will no longer have to WORRY and THINK about them. So..

    Do this:

    1.Look at your list, and see if you can find a “theme” – like the ones we found in Daria and Reshi’s lists.

    2. Now – write down the change, the result you want to happen for each item. This is the FLIP.

    For example, in Daria’s list, turn all the entries about her God-sister into “I want my God-sister to be happy and healthy and safe.”

    Turn “Feeling guilty about dating guys I don’t find sexually attractive” into I want to enjoy dating every man I go out with,” and “I want to date men I’m sexually attracted to.”

    In Reshi’s list, you might turn “Being afraid that if I express anything to him, he will get angry at me and love me less” into “I want to feel like expressing myself gets more love from him, even if he responds with anger.”

    Go ahead and FLIP each of your “problems” into things you want.

    Please comment with some of your “Flips” so we can move on to some more steps.

    Love, Rori



  218.  #218Rori Raye on May 18, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Bo – I’m not sure how to help you – I do know there are MANY women in Romania working with my books and programs (and a great Romanian coach – Alina at http://www.MyCoachAlina.com) – so – please email: support@HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com – they should be able to help you right away – please let me know if they can’t…

  219.  #219Andrea on May 18, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    wow, I am feeling such confidence and strength in my dating skills.
    I had such a wonderful weekend. We have a new little ice cream shop in town, about a mile away from my home and it’s a walk through a large lake front and park. One of my old CDers, I’ve posted about him before, has physical stuff going on with him that makes him smell really bad. He also, physically just does not take care of himself. But he likes me a lot. He contacted me again and since I enjoy talking to him we have good fun on the phone. He asked me out again. I told him, “I feel hesitant. It’s hard for me to be close with you because I am sensitive to a certain smell that only comes up when I’m around you. I’m so sorry.”

    So he suggested, what if we just go for a walk from my place through the lake front and to the ice cream shop. He told me he’s been trying to get in better physical shape. I was so proud of him and so happy for him. So Friday evening we had a wonderful walk and got to try out the new ice cream shop. It was so lovely. (still no romance, but I feel great “practicing” my listening at different levels with him, and using feeling messages to compliment his getting healthier.)

    Saturday, my Joe called out of the blue and invited me to a play I had been wanting to see. We had been hot and heavy for a little while but as soon as I determined not to lean forward with him, his texts and messages just tapered off. When he called Saturday morning I was surprised but had a free night so I was very excited to go on this date with him.
    As soon as I got in his truck I noticed two ticket stubs to a big concert that had been in town two weeks ago. A concert I would have loved to go see. He not only went to it, but he took someone else. Of course, I was a little hurt. Then I caught myself and reminded myself to see the moment for what it was. Right now, I was sitting in his truck and he was taking ME to a show. I was actually happy… with just this moment… leaving the past.. his past, my past.. behind. I made a choice to simply romance this moment.
    I relaxed. I opened my heart. Through out the night there were touches, flirtations, and his considerate ways. We followed the theatre crowd to a party afterward where I met the most dynamic young man and had a blast talking with him while Joe went and visited with the theatre people he knew.
    Then we went to a live music venue and had some drinks. At the end of the night, outside my apartment door, we kissed passionately a few times. Joe whispered, “I want to make love to you.”
    I sat back and I looked at him with tenderness. But I said, “Joe, I feel flattered and I know you want to make love to me. But I want love. Just simply Love. I want a relationship with a man who calls me, and wants to spend time with me, and when he has tickets for a show… I am the first person he thinks to ask. I want to make love with a man who loves me like that. And that’s the only man I want to make love to. And I am patient. I can wait for that man to surface in my life.”

    He smiled at me and he paused for a long time then he said, “I know, Andrea. I know that’s what you want. That’s what you deserve as well.”

    And then he said goodnight. : ) It was kind of a finality to our little romance that we’d been going through these past months. I feel I won’t be seeing Joe anymore.

    This afternoon I had a date with another POF guy. He suggested we go Disk Golfing. Well I thought that was such a fun creative first date idea. I was just giddy with excitement. Not only because I wanted to learn how to do the new activity but also because here was a guy who was a little bit better than average. More creative. More fun.
    He came and picked me up. Met me in my lobby. Opened the doors for me. And then I dipped into his car.. and… UGH!!!! It was nasty!
    The inside was trashed. Garbage, business files, icky sticky stuff. I pulled back and I said, “No! No, hold on. Let me step back here and gather what I feel right now.”
    He said, “What?”
    He was oblivious how atrocious this was. I was offended because this was a first impression, a first date. My gosh!
    He said so sweetly, so shocked, “What’s wrong. Oh my goodness. What’s going on?”
    I said, “No, your car. I don’t think I can even get in there.”
    He said, “Oh just push that stuff aside. There’s enough room.”
    I said, “No, it’s too gross. This is the grossest thing I’ve ever seen.”
    Then he started laughing and he did that.. “I’m a traveling salesman and I live out of my car thing.”

    He was laughing and apologetic and he picked up some of his sweaters and put one over the passenger seat for me. It was because of his laughter and his kind of laid back joking that I felt comfortable with him. And I just felt so curious about why he thought it was okay to show up this way. I wondered if it was something in my profile.. something that maybe I give off that maybe led him to believe that I would be the type of woman who wouldn’t care about the state of his cleanliness.

    So, I rode with him to the Disk Golf course. And we actually had a really really exceptionally great time. I just had an absolute blast with him. We had so much to talk about, he was great and patient with me teaching me how to Disk Golf. He is handsome and muscular. Great sense of humour. And very knowledgable. I was really glad I went on the date. I felt very relaxed and comfortable with him. But I also realized through some of the things he said that he had lied on his profile about his job.
    I also noticed stains on his socks and on his shorts. And his breath was stale and ugh.

    So, it was a fun experience. Afterward we sat in his car and drank some cokes and talked. He asked me if he could get a kiss.

    I said, “No. I’m not physically attracted to you at this point. I’m really turned off by your car and I can’t get past that to feel romantic enough to kiss you.”

    He said, “Wow. Thank you for your feedback.”
    He was so kind and cool about it. So we sat for another hour giving each other feedback about our profiles and our pictures and dating at our age and different things about life. It was really nice. Pleasant.

    But when he asked me out again I told him no. I’m definitely not interested. He said, “I thought you might be able to help me get cleaned up.”

    I said, “No. I don’t want to be a mom, cleaning woman, nurse maid, or director for the man I want to date.”

    So we said goodbye.

    All in all though, I’m very happy with myself through all of this. I feel so peaceful and I feel I had some really wonderful experiences this weekend. It’s just really fun to date. And every experience brings me closer to The Actual One.

  220.  #220Cupcake on May 18, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    Wow, Andrea–

    You just rock.

    I am so glad you had a fun weekend, and I really appreciate your sharing it here in such helpful detail.

    I feel inspired by the way you stay in your skin, in the moment.

    Thanks, and you go, girl!

  221.  #221Veronica on May 18, 2014 at 8:57 pm

    Azure Blu – 170 – I’m feeling seen and heard, I feel fondness for your words : ) Thank you.

    What you said has brought up triggers for me. I’ve struggled with loving my life for a long time. I’ve grown up with many people saying ‘you should…’ without even knowing me, assuming I want the same thing for my life that they want for theirs. So many ‘shoulds’ ‘musts’ ugh not inspiring at all, almost bizarre. That feels smothering. I don’t even remember me imagining what it would be like to be them as something to aspire to. I feel no compulsion to live the way they do.

    I also know that ‘I’ve let myself down’ feeling.

    And yet when I think of how have I let myself down – things don’t quite compute. The ‘proof’ dissipates.

    But still a niggling feeling – I know I have more in me, but not in the way other people imagine, and yet I know I’m on my way there, everyday I’m doing what *I* love; what I think is important and good for me.

    And I’m so bounced around from one end of people who don’t understand me at all (nor bother to) and the other end of my knowing that I’m capable of more. It is so easy to think that both share the same concerns, that I’m ‘agreeing’ with their understanding or misunderstanding of me; which is not the case at all.

    Yet with this I keep riding my horse, I consider what people say, if it’s beneficial I add it to my ‘itinerary’ for my horse to follow, if it’s necessary.

  222.  #222Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 9:39 pm

    Azure Blu 203,

    It was sooo lovely! The hotel spa he took me to was just gorgeous and very, very peaceful. A few hours there felt like a holiday.

    Thanks 🙂

  223.  #223Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    Thank you for the hugs, Feminine Woman. Xx

  224.  #224Indigo on May 18, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    Hi Tam 🙂

    Thank you for the love!

    I remember your story with MrP, and I remember so well the pain I felt through your posts, and the frustration. It’s good to know you have found some peace.

    I know D well enough to know that he will probably leave it for a couple of weeks and then contact me again. Maybe I’ll get to the point where I will just determine that I won’t reply. For now, this is a huge breakthrough for me, I’ve never told him not to contact me before.

    I kinda have faith though, and I’m putting it out there in the universe… I don’t believe I’m meant to go through this pain and frustration again and again. I feel like I kinda have to have faith in my heart that now that he will not contact me again unless it’s to say he can give me the commitment that I want. I feel as if I have to hold onto something bigger in all of this.

    *Hugs* and thank you for commenting to me!

  225.  #225Millie on May 19, 2014 at 12:34 am

    Cupcake 216–

    Oh Cupcake! I just love that you were thinking about me and feeling very sisterly! It warms my heart truly….
    No, I did not drive out to Band man’s place. I didn’t want to go the first time he invited me after his show, and I didn’t want to go now. There is moonlight and cocktails all over the city, not just in his city. I feel like I’ve made some headway from the person I used to be. The old me might have been gone purely out of curiosity, but I realize that curiosity exists sometimes out of lack of experience. I already know what would have been through that door…..plus he lives about an hour away, he either would have wanted me to stay over (of course) or I would have had to drive another hour home at god knows what time. H*ll no!!!! We texted a bit more once I got home and as I said, I told him I preferred to hold out for a real date….one where he picks me up…and is legally single. He is going on tour for two months, he asked for a rain check when he gets back. We’ll see if I remember him….
    Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts, and I’m glad to report I chose me, not him 🙂

  226.  #226Millie on May 19, 2014 at 12:38 am

    Shannon P.–

    Wow you are….amazing. You have such a positive attitude and I love that you are in true survival mode right now. I wish I could help, but it seems you are truly helping yourself and your daughter! Keeping you in my thoughts, with your strength and determination, I am sure this phase of life will pass and lead into a better one.

  227.  #227Millie on May 19, 2014 at 12:41 am

    More to report 🙂

    I have a tool! What do you ladies think…So when a man asks for my # and gives me his, I don’t save it in my phone. When he texts or calls, it just shows up as a combination of numbers. I realized I do this unconciously because I’m not sure if ___ man’s # is worth saving yet. I think it works well because now I find myself responding to the text or phone call more objectively for what it is, rather than from who it is..I realize I get triggered by names…like if I see mechanic’s name, I get all nervous inside, but if I just see numbers….I can respond to the message itself and the content of it. Does that make sense?

  228.  #228Millie on May 19, 2014 at 12:50 am

    I’m breaking up my posts by content…

    Guess who called me today? My date from wed night..I will call him Bike guy because he is a cyclist. I hadn’t heard from him after our date on wed night. He had told me he was going out of town for the wknd, but I figured if he had a good time, he’d reach out. So…he called me tonight and left a voicemail asking me out again. Usually a man texts me immediately after the date letting me know how fun it was and he wants to see me again. This guy didn’t do that…he played it cool, enjoyed his wknd with his family, and called me right when he got back. I kind of love that 🙂 He doesn’t seem like a player to me, but I like how he is playing this…I like that he didn’t text me. So we are going out on Thursday, either to a movie or drinks..or both, he said he would think of some options. He asked me to text him in the meantime if I wanted to….I wasn’t sure how to answer that, so I said ok. I actually don’t know if I want to or not…..
    Truth time…I’m a chaser. I chase. So yes, I am guilty of texting men when I’m chasing after them or am interested in seeing them when they haven’t asked me out, but this guy did ask me out…so why would I need to do that? This feels like new territory for me…I’m so used to either chasing and lusting after a man I’m super attracted to..or the opposite, being pursued by a man I’m repulsed by. Rarely is it in the middle. It’s totally in the middle right now. I’m not “into” him, but I’m not “not into” him. Anyways…I’m excited to see him again and see what comes of it.

  229.  #229sweet goddess on May 19, 2014 at 1:01 am

    Hi Cupcake 🙂

    Your story with the married guy triggers me. Its funny but I enjoy these triggers because they also feel like an opportunity for me to learn and grow.

    Have you thought about what is it in your system that “allows” you to be attracted to not-available men? I totally do agree that in situations like these, its not just the women who have to be “wise” and control and feel guilty… the man is equally involved and responsible…but let´s forget for a moment about how men behave, or others behave ….let´s make it about us because its way harder to look deep within us and what motivates us and drives us…

    From what I read and how you have sounded in the past on the blog, you are a lovely girl, beautiful and attractive and could get any guy you want ! So why is a married guy turning on your system? Are you being driven here by chemistry? In fact, also partially a bit subconsciously by the fact that he is not fully available? We hire men in our lives either to love us or to be as close / as distant / as available as we feel with ourselves… Do you want a man who is only partially available? Do you want a man who, if he were to marry you one day (let´s say) will also go out with other women and never mention you as his wife? How would that feel? Is that the kind of man who would feel attracted to?

    I can only say that quality men don´t play these games. They either want you straight out and or they don´t and anything in the middle is what we create in our heads… imaginary…

    I hope I do not offend you in anyway. Sometimes, I do have this tendency of really going deep into stuff and asking many self-discovering questions, but its only because I discover myself in the process as well. You are not being judged here. The questions I ask if because I feel curious to know, what exactly is driving you here.

    Love to you xo

  230.  #230Millie on May 19, 2014 at 1:03 am

    Last but not least…
    I had a great weekend. And I was mostly alone.
    I realized how much I love just being with myself and accomplishing what I want to get accomplished. I am such good company for myself. I wonder if subconsciously, I have chosen to be single, that I really like it deep down…?
    Friday night, I turned down Band guys’ offer and came home and cleaned my apartment. It was rather dirty.. I woke up early on Saturday, got my nails done, went shopping for my friend’s bridal shower…there was a bike race in our city and all the streets were blocked off, so I was stranded there for awhile. It was actually really nice, I walked everywhere and took my time and enjoyed every little moment. I came home and worked on a dress I’m making for the wedding. I really just had a great day. My brother’s first gf ever broke up with him out of the blue, so my cousins and I took him out to dinner. I feel bad for him, but he’s a catch and I know he can do better, but alas, if only he knew what I know…..
    Today I went to the beach with my girlfriend. We had a lovely day chatting and relaxing in the sun. I cooked myself dinner and chatted with bike guy, then worked on my dress again…and now I’m sharing my weekend with you lovely ladies.
    Remember I saw a picture of Mechanic with that other woman? Well, I texted him…the first contact since I mentioned I wanted to go on a date, which he never followed up on, and I get it. I get it. I texted him that he looked very happy in that picture, with a smile. He responded just “haha,” which is a very non-answer. I was fine with it though…I wasn’t and am not asking anything of him, I’m not asking about his business, it’s none of mine. Since then though, he’s been “liking” a lot of my posts, more than usual. I know it doesn’t mean anything, but it makes me feel good anyway….it makes me feel like…none of this is going to be a thorn in anyone’s side. Our rivers are moving in their own direction peacefully, and I am at peace with him and he with me, and none of that needs to be said. Nothing needs to be said at all. I smile as I say that. I’ll see him at the wedding I believe.

  231.  #231sweet goddess on May 19, 2014 at 1:04 am

    Millie… great tool with the number. Love it 🙂 So diva ! I also did it in my single days ..hihi…and loved being surprised when he did call 🙂

  232.  #232Millie on May 19, 2014 at 1:14 am

    Andrea– I love your honesty!!! I went into a female friend’s house this wknd for the first time…and oh…my…god…it was disgusting. She is such a sweet lady, I didn’t want to hurt her feelings, but it stunk so bad and there were flies flying around her food that had been left out. She’s a notorious good cook, but I’m afraid..I’ll never eat her cooking again, now that I know where it came from! Sigh…..

  233.  #233mary on May 19, 2014 at 1:16 am

    hello! Cupcake!

    it’s Mary… i don’t think we’ve ever talked. i’m kind of in and out! i enjoy reading the posts and lots of the comments but i rarely enter in any more because it’s been a while since i knew everyone…

    something caught my attention though, here tonight, and i thought i might say hello to you.

    i read your comments at the beginning of this post about the married man, and as i was reading i was noticing that when you mentioned him, you were wondering what he was thinking, or why he wasn’t talking about his wife, or what was going on in his head, and you seemed quite curious about what he might be thinking of you, and what his intentions might be towards you…

    and as i was reading, i began to muse to myself that there have been so many times in the past when i’ve been in situations where i wondered what was gonna happen next, and i temporarily forgot that if i wanted – i could have complete control over what happened by just going down a different road. And i recalled a few times when i suddenly remembered that option, and altered my actions accordingly, and afterwards felt extremely pleased with myself for looking down the road and seeing the potholes and deciding not to go that way…

    you mentioned that you wanted to get out and circular date more, and it sounded to me like there were lots of guys admiring you, and i would imagine that circular dating might be quite a lot of fun in that situation!

    circular dating sort of gets you out of the head of the guy who has captured your interest, and more into your own head, and thinking about what YOU want rather than what THEY want…

    i’m always so full of wonder about this amazing tool called circular dating, and by all the ways it helps to make things clear, and gives options and new life and hope! it always seems like WIN / WIN to me!

    i love it!

    take care! and good wishes for you!



  234.  #234Millie on May 19, 2014 at 1:16 am

    Sweet Goddess–

    “I can only say that quality men don´t play these games. They either want you straight out and or they don´t and anything in the middle is what we create in our heads… imaginary…”

    Love what you said above!

  235.  #235Millie on May 19, 2014 at 1:34 am

    Cupcake– one more thing, I had to laugh when Band guy said his roommate was gone for the wknd, like that would be a perk. I had to laugh because I have my own place. I’m sure going through a divorce affects ones finances, so I don’t judge, but it reminded me of a high school boy whose parents are going out of town so let’s throw a party. I live alone, so throwing a party or inviting someone over… Or having an overnight guest is not a rarity I need to squeeze in around someone else’s schedule. Anyway, that’s all 🙂

  236.  #236Veronica on May 19, 2014 at 3:02 am

    Shannon – You’re amazing, when I read your post I had so much hope for you, I can believe that things will get better. I feel relieved that you found such a good shelter.

  237.  #237Veronica on May 19, 2014 at 3:05 am

    I’m feeling inspired reading these sireny posts. Go Sirens! : )

  238.  #238Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Thanx darlin’ siren for taking the time to share your wkend!! It sounds FAB!!!
    Sooo fun to read…
    Love this
    ” I looked at him with tenderness.
    I said, “Joe, I feel flattered and I know you want to make love to me.
    But I want love. Just simply Love.
    I want a relationship with a man who calls me,
    and wants to spend time with me,
    and when he has tickets for a show…
    I am the first person he thinks to ask.
    I want to make love with a man
    who loves me like that.
    And that’s the only man I want to make love to.
    And I am patient.
    I can wait for that man
    to surface in my life.”

    I’m just sharing my thoughts but its
    my feeling that men (and me too) love to hear what we have in mind for our lives,
    our love life…
    I know Rori’s tools and also C. Carter recommends this.
    You have shared your authentic YOU with Joe…
    I don’t know but…
    you just might hear from him again
    AND he has no missgivings as to
    WHO YOU are
    and WHAT you want
    So soft on the outside Strong on the inside.
    Andrea….Ahhh the power of it all!!! :-}

    All the other dates too…
    To me
    Your sharing of your boundaries and feelings in the moment
    in my mind seem like
    just what a Siren should do and say!!

  239.  #239Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 6:48 am

    Millie #230…
    I Loved reading about your weekend…
    I don’t know but to me
    It felt like YOUR life is SO important to YOU
    and you were in the moment enjoying all of

  240.  #240Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 6:58 am

    Veronica 221
    Thank you darlin, sweet siren!! ((hugs))
    I feel heard
    I enjoyed reading about YOUR journey
    dealing with the
    “I’ve let myself down” feelings I am struggling with lately
    Welll… really for the past year…
    When I got laid off from my PERFECT job…
    after 6 months of deep depression…
    I have felt MUCH better most of the time
    but it has surfaced again…
    I can’t seem to get any momentum
    with my company…
    I read what Zara wrote
    about it does just take
    baby steps…
    I feel like I need to
    KEEP taking those…
    I don’t know…
    I’m in the SOUP!! AHHHGGGAAA! 🙁

  241.  #241Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 7:06 am

    Ohhhh… LA LA!!! :0}
    Bike guy sounds sooo masculine…
    Calling and NOT texting??? Yay Planning fun dates!!!
    I myself LOVE that…
    Sounds like you do too!!

    Holy cow… can’t wait to hear about your next date.

    I don’t know… but to me… this feels sooo
    “YOU taking care of YOUR soft, sweet heart!!!”
    You wrote…
    “It’s totally in the middle right now. I’m not “into” him, but I’m not “not into” him. Anyways…I’m excited to see him again and see what comes of it.”

  242.  #242Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 7:19 am

    Shannon P>
    ((hugs)) thank you!!!
    Ahhh… this is what I needed right now…

    “Tell yourself that you’re sorry.
    Tell yourself that it doesn’t matter if you were right or wrong in what you did;
    you’re just sorry.
    Then tell yourself
    that you forgive yourself.
    Then tell yourself that you accept your apology.
    Do it until it FEELS like forgiveness.

    Because all too often,
    our feelings aren’t logical
    and don’t care what they SHOULD be.
    They are what they are,
    and they need to be accepted for what they ARE,
    not chastised for what they SHOULD be.

    There are a LOT of suggestions all over about how to forgive yourself.
    But one of the best is simply to
    stop holding onto the feeling.
    Don’t resist it or grab onto it.
    Neither push it down nor dwell in it.
    Let it pass into and through you.
    “I feel angry at myself.
    I feel guilty. I feel humiliated.
    I feel ashamed.
    BUT I’M OKAY.”

    Because you’re always okay.
    You may not FEEL okay just now,
    but you’re always okay.
    So accept the feeling,
    and know that you’ll always be okay.

    It’s okay to feel guilty,
    if that’s what you really feel.
    Just don’t take up residence there,
    and don’t refuse to feel what you really feel.”

  243.  #243Cupcake on May 19, 2014 at 8:01 am

    233 Mary

    Hi, Mary-

    and other Sirens who chimed in about the married guy friend who never mentions his wife-

    Thanks for your sweet thoughts and insight. I wrote that post the morning after I had seen him, and now that the dust is settling on that interaction, I feel more clearheaded.

    It’s not because he’s unavailable that I am attracted to this guy. It’s because he’s unavailable, however, that nothing will come from that attraction.

    I’m new to town, and he so far he is just the handsomest and nicest one who “gets” me. Actually, there’s another one who is single, but he’s the one who showed up drunk to our first date, so that was kind of a non-starter. As this thing with the married guy is a non-starter in a romantic sense.

    He’s done nothing inappropriate, and I don’t want to be someone who encourages my friends to make bad choices any more than I want to make bad choices for myself. I want to be his friend, and our common interest in a shared activity means that encounters are inevitable. I will do what I would do if an issue came up with any friend, male or female, and start a conversation about the weirdness and tell the truth.

    Yep, that’s leaning forward. And I will lean forward because he’s NOT a CD, he’s a friend, and we can’t be friends and have this weird dynamic going on. It’s a friendship or its a dalliance. I can’t see anything good coming out of a dalliance. It will not make me happy and it would probably deprive me of not only my friendship with him but also with an entire group of people who, since I have moved to this town, are the people I feel most in sync with.

    So that is that.

    Nothing to worry about. Once I get my legs under me work-wise, I will start CDing again.

    Thanks for all your kind thoughts.

  244.  #244April Rose on May 19, 2014 at 8:07 am

    Hello Tam!!!!

  245.  #245Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 8:29 am

    Cupcake #243
    Wow… feels to me
    this is very thoughtful and grounded…

  246.  #246Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 8:49 am

    Sirnes and Zara…
    I’m confused… I might have missed something in the blog or posts…
    Zara when you end your posts (which have much good sharing in them)
    you sign it
    Love, Rori…
    Is this another name that Rori uses?

  247.  #247Veronica on May 19, 2014 at 8:56 am

    Azure Blu – 240 – Thank you for the hug.

    I’m sorry to hear that happened. I feel curious – I wonder what the depression was like for you, if you had loved ones close by, if that helped you, and also I’m aware how private that is.

    But you’re feeling much better : )

    I notice my attention hovering a bit on the words ‘I let myself down’ – for me I keep having ‘I lay myself gently down, my being is so tired and doesn’t know me anymore’ suggest itself to me.

    Wanting light and love for you.

  248.  #248Veronica on May 19, 2014 at 8:58 am

    ((((((((((Indigo)))))))))))) Your words to D struck me as so wanting to untangle yourself, they’re so bare and open that I had a deep reaction to it.

  249.  #249ArabianLove on May 19, 2014 at 9:03 am

    Hello again ladies,
    I need some advice please. I have not seen my bf in a month.We had plans to meet up today. He ended up cancellig on me last night. I must say he already cancelled on me on Friday both times saying please not today plus an excuse.I believe this behaviour stems from me accepting it in the past and being too understanding. In other words not having any boundaries set up with him.
    I told him I understood his brother/family is important to him however that i feel like everything is always more important than i am. I feel sad that i even have to beg him to see me once a month. Needless to say he has not answered me this time and I have an idea of what i should do. I have figured out my boundaries. I will expect him to pursue me now (if he decides to) i will stay strong and not accept any excuses. I expect effort to be put in if he wants to find his way back into my life… only problem is i expect him to contact me again which is not certain … and that if indeed hes back i will become butter.
    Help ! What to do ?!? I need moral support !!

  250.  #250ArabianLove on May 19, 2014 at 9:28 am

    @185 LuzyDel

    I am feeling what you said! I too am learning that men will test you to see how little they can get away with giving you and then make excuses when u start demanding more so that he can remain in status quo. Current partner is doing that and i finally stood up for myself
    I really cannot agree more with the fact that being passive and letting things slide just does not work. Im not saying to nag but clearly stating what one will or will not tolerate must happen… bc if not we become the stupid girl that waits and waits and gets nothing for being kind and thoughtful!

  251.  #251Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Ohhhh… Veronica #247
    You are sooo welcome…
    The depression was DEEP… I also stopped seeing my toxic bf of 2 years and that added to it
    I think it was from deep shame
    and MUCH disapointment and shock
    I wanted to retire from the job..
    I had the job for a year… I was sooo well qualified for the work,
    a nonprofit that had established a world renown curriculum for preschoolers. Pres. Obama even spoke about the curriculum. 🙂
    Sooo I loved the mission also.
    Yes, because of the LOVE and support of my wonderful family AND friends AND Roris tools and THIS BLOG… I Survived… Yay!!!

    Veronica… your soft, supporting insight has struck a chord with me…
    “I’m sooo tired… and I DONT KNOW ME anymore”
    Maybe I feel like I have changed soooo much of
    who I AM in the past 6 months…
    I don’t even recognize myself…
    I need to think about this today…
    THANK YOU VERONICA!! 🙂 oxoxoxo

  252.  #252Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 9:37 am

    PS… sooo interesting to see…
    Allll the changes I have made
    Are Good changes for ME…
    Sharing my feelings
    Feeling my feelings,,,
    And Alll of a sudden
    I DON”T even recognize ME!!

  253.  #253mary on May 19, 2014 at 9:49 am

    mornin’ Cupcake!

    you sound very clear-headed to me!

    good wishes for you with your new place, settling in to a whole new work situation and with all the exciting adventures that will come of your way!



  254.  #254Sassy on May 19, 2014 at 10:06 am

    Where is Turquoise! Miss you girl. I know you’ve had a very rough year, but we are still here for you.

  255.  #255Indigo on May 19, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Veronica 248,

    Thank you for the hugs dear 🙂

    That is exactly what it was. I could feel, just with the simple message he sent me, myself getting drawn in, pulled slowly but surely… and I know where that leads.

    It ends with me having to go home from work because I have a migraine and the pain in my heart is so severe that I feel like my chest is going to implode, or with me weeping on the floor of my office, helplessly like a little baby.

    As much as I love him, and I do, I can NOT do that to myself again. I cannot go down a path where he carelessly leads me to a point and then I fall off a cliff.

    I want SO much better for myself than that, and other people need to know that I’m worth so much more.

  256.  #256Indigo on May 19, 2014 at 10:18 am

    hugs back to you!

  257.  #257Dominique on May 19, 2014 at 10:58 am

    Azure Blu – 246 – Zara is copying and pasting some of Rori’s writings, thus the signature. And she mixes in her own comments in between usually.


  258.  #258Dominique on May 19, 2014 at 11:01 am

    ArabianLove – 249 – Is this the kind of relationship you really want? Doesn’t seem so. If he wants to be with you, he will want to be with you. Once a month if that doesn’t sound as though he wants this. And I will go back to my original question – Is this what you want, for this is the most important question.


  259.  #259Zara on May 19, 2014 at 11:30 am

    246 Azur Blu
    *****Is this another name that Rori uses?*****

    No, it just happens that my posts 123 and 217 are missing my introductory line that usually says “Written by Rori Raye”.

    When I copy-paste any of Rori’s articles, with all and her final signature, as should be, I first write “Written by Rori Raye” followed by the date it was first published on the blog.

    Then I put the sign ***** right before and right after the pasted text. Which means :*****this is a copy-paste*****

    The last sign ***** closes the citation.

    I do NOT add any personal comment, so to keep it clear that the post is a copy-paste from Rori’s writting.

    After the closing of the citation, I write my 3 xxx who are 3 kisses from me to you and is my signature. 🙂


  260.  #260ArabianLove on May 19, 2014 at 11:47 am

    Dominic then why when we ask men if they are still interested they act as though of course they are… and he states he wants mariage and asks me if i want to get married too and how many kids i want with him… i met his family not long ago… i dont believe it had to do with them not liking me… iwe laugh and chat but whenit comes to spending time he cant let go of a soccer game to do so. Im fed up and no i dont want this kind of relationship but iwant someone who is serious… hmmm he told me he was serious … asked me quickly to be his and then … i dont know what happened threemonths later … i was asking and doing and he wasnt doing anything for me anymore… not even telling me he missed or sending me kisses. But its craxy i dont want to start all over again… not again

  261.  #261ArabianLove on May 19, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Dominique * pardon me for mispelling your name

  262.  #262Indigo on May 19, 2014 at 12:08 pm


    May I ask you, were you doing for him, being kind and thoughtful and understanding, in the hopes that it would create a tipping point of reciprocation? That he would just *have* to also give to the relationship because you have been so great?

    You need to be careful of this kind of thinking because it can create a great deal of resentment and disappointment, which makes you feel awful. I can see that is why Rori advocates doing nothing.

    Scaling back on doing for a man when that is how we’ve been conducting our relationship is not easy. Doing for a man lets us distract ourselves from what is really going on – we aren’t getting our needs met – by giving us something else to focus on: him, and all the ways he is falling short.

    I got a shock when I realized how much I was focusing on a man instead of doing the work on myself.

    ArabianLove… I just get the feeling you need to let go a little, put down the oars of the relationship. If he doesn’t pick them up, you kind of have your answer. And maybe that will feel a little better.

  263.  #263Shina on May 19, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Awwww the dreaded “when was the last time you got checked for STDs?” talk. Those are always fun – not! When I was actively dating, I always asked every single one of my dates when they were last tested before things got too hot & heavy, and actually required that I actually SEE the paperwork showing their clean test results before I’d sleep with them. In this day and age, it is SO easy to get an STI from that one chance encounter — this article of the woman’s story and how she had to disclose her genital herpes was the exact convo I wanted to avoid at all costs. It is so devastating to have an incurable STI that will remain with you the rest of your life!

    Liquid Light — it is so good to see you still on these discussion boards! It’s been awhile since I’ve been on RR’s site, and there are so many new sirens here that it’s nice to see a friend 😉 That’s fantastic that you’re so busy actively dating! Regarding the guy who texted you that weird question about whether or not you’re 100% honest is very creepy. I actually dated a guy like that, someone who would ask these loaded questions that never asked directly what he wanted to know but were always super passive aggressive with double meanings, etc. But I gave him a chance because I figured since he seemed so “into” me that maybe some people were just more awkward than others when it comes to women that they like. Big Mistake. All throughout our relationship, he would always ask me these indirect questions that were very loaded and it would drive me batsh*t crazy because he would never ask me directly what he meant. I always felt like he was the “girl” in the relationship and that he was playing all these crazy “mind games” with me to figure out whether or not I truly was as “into” him as he was into me, and that got old real quick. Ever since that experience, I made it a requirement for myself that if a man showed any signs that he is emotionally unstable, needs too much reassurance, or not comfortable/confidant in his manhood and ability to attract a woman, etc. I ended that relationship ASAP and moved on.

    And regarding your low libido — I totally get it! When you’re actively dating and you haven’t met anyone who turns you on, etc. it is normal for your libido to take a nose dive. In between my own CDs etc. I would sometimes feel really depressed that I did not have anyone I felt very attracted to and it would make me feel worse than when I didn’t have any dates at all. But don’t worry, when you least expect it, as you’re going about your day as usual you will meet someone who sparks your fire and you’ll discover it wasn’t gone at all — just dormant 🙂

    Take care girl and sending you lots of love! xoxo

  264.  #264Dominique on May 19, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Arabian Love – 260 – I understand, yet maybe this could be seen as a gift, and exciting adventure.

    This man may have some wonderful qualities, say some lovely things, yet the actions are what speak the loudest.

    Things to ponder, and you don’t have to make a decision now. Continue to work on you, and the answers will come.


  265.  #265Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Dominque and Zara…
    Darlings…Thank you!!! :-}}
    Now I get it!!!

  266.  #266Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    LOVE THIS!!! Soooo well put!!!
    It’s sooo much what i did in my last 2 yr. toxic relationship.
    “May I ask you, were you doing for him, being kind and thoughtful and understanding, in the hopes that it would create a tipping point of reciprocation? That he would just *have* to also give to the relationship because you have been so great?

    You need to be careful of this kind of thinking because it can create a great deal of resentment and disappointment, which makes you feel awful. I can see that is why Rori advocates doing nothing.”

  267.  #267Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    Indigo 255…
    Ohhh, darling, soft, adorable Siren…
    I feel your anguish here…
    being drawn in to the craziness and chaos that the on again off again D causes!!
    I believe with you.
    YES… you deserve and are worthy of
    masculine, adoration from a man who CAN love and cherish YOU
    Allll the TIME!!!

  268.  #268Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    as Cupcake says
    “the best thing is
    You’re one man closer to your true love!!”

  269.  #269Azure Blu on May 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Yes, Yes Yes,
    Continue to work on ME and the answers come…

  270.  #270Liquid Light on May 19, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    Hi Shina

    So nice to see you here again! Seeing your name here made me smile!

    And thanks so much for what you said, you nailed it again 100%. That’s exactly how I was feeling – the whole thing felt icky and gross and weird. And then when I didn’t respond right away, and he kinda flipped out, I knew that my gut was right about him. There was something that just felt off about him but I was trying to give him a chance. But everything you said about him being insecure, playing games, looking for reassurance, etc. – that all rang so true. I had just met him, and he was already acting jealous, possessive and needy! Ughh. I’m so glad that it played out the way that it did and that I didn’t end up wasting more time on him!

    Thanks again for everything you wrote, I felt so relieved when I read your words. And I will try to trust my gut more and more moving forward! I really like what you wrote about STDs too, I’m pretty careful but your reminder made me realize that “pretty careful” is prob not careful enough.

    Take care and great to see you here, girl!!

    Lots of love right back at ya!

    xoxo, LL

  271.  #271Tereana on May 19, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    Azure Blu (192), what you wrote literally brought years to my eyes. I don’t really have words except, thank you. Thank you for hearing me, seeing me, and for speaking right to the hearty of what matters to me. I can just feel your kindness and compassion and I’m trying not to get to drippy in the middle of the commuter train. Lol

    Today I Wrote a Poem. It was just for me. But I remembered how I used to use poetry to express powerful feelings. Not to go anywhere, or to specific person. Just for me.

    And I write and re-write (sometimes just on my head) letters that I might send, I notice the patterns, and yes, like you said, come closer to distillimg the message just to a small amount that feels truly useful and that I really want to say.

    And you, too, for affirming how I framed this, too – that my little girl really wants me to stand up and say something for myself. It doesn’t matter the result. Just that I am abjection stand up for Who I Am against toxic forces, whether they are a particular man, or forces driving that man to do and say horrible things it is not ok. And it’s up to me to say that, unequivocally, without fear.

    Thank you

  272.  #272Zara on May 19, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    Copy-pasted from Rori’s e-letter
    September 21st 2010

    If you’re struggling in your love life because the man you’re with is stalling and unresponsive and you feel hurt and confused and frustrated…

    OR, there’s NO MAN at all and you’re starting to feel hopeless…

    The SECRET to having the kind of loving, committed relationship is in these two elements:

    Here’s a letter from Joelle, who’s feeling unattractive and undesirable because she can’t get her love life STARTED. It’s as though men feel “casual” around her, so nothing ever gets off the ground.

    What she seems to lack is the ability to create attraction with a man, and it’s probably because she’s doing all the wrong things that actually make a man lose interest or think of her as a “friend.”

    => “Dear Rori, I’m feeling desperate, can you help me?

    Ever since I broke up with a man whom I was living with for 7 years, my love life has gone downhill even more. It’s been almost 6 years of dating, very short relationships, men telling me that I’m a great “friend” but they have no chemistry with me. I seem to have no trouble meeting men. I have a lot of friends and I like going out and meeting new people.

    I consider myself acceptably attractive, I have a great sense of humour and am interested in a wide variety of things.

    My girlfriends say I’m very gregarious and they’re always making jokes at how many different men I’ve dated in the last several years and all the drama and funny stories that have come of it all.

    But it’s not funny to me anymore. I don’t know if I’m attracting all the losers or if I’m doing something wrong, or what. The last guy I met, for example, seemed so into me and told me a lot of sexy things on our first date, but then flaked out quickly – said he was going out of town and I didn’t hear from him for 3 weeks!

    I have tried to use a lot of the advice you give in your newsletters, such as not paying for dates and not calling a guy to ask him out, but what I don’t understand is why men will seem so excited to get to know me at first and then eventually disappear or start making excuses. I must be doing something wrong somewhere.


    => Here’s my answer:

    From how you’ve described yourself, it would “make sense” that a man should want to date you and pursue you.

    But attraction makes no sense. Being attractive, funny and “gregarious” may get you some initial attention — but in the long run it has absolutely nothing to do with REAL attraction.

    And attraction is what you need in order to get your love life off the ground.

    So what exactly is ATTRACTION?

    Let’s get clear that attraction is way more than just “chemistry.”

    Chemistry, and the “tingles,” and infatuation, and all those things we think of as attraction are terrific, yes, but attraction is a much bigger thing.

    Attraction is simple. It just means that for no reason at all, you feel pulled toward someone.

    It just means you instinctively — with your heart, your mind, your body, and your spirit — want to be as close to someone else as you can get.

    It just means you want to be there with him.

    It’s the same for a man. Attraction means he wants to be near you. He wants to be close to you.

    He doesn’t think about it, he doesn’t know why, he doesn’t analyse it, he doesn’t look at the way you look, or the way you talk, or the way you act, or the way your body is shaped, or your intelligence level, or ANYTHING.

    He just FEELS attracted to you. It’s not a choice for him.

    This is what you want to create! And the way you do this is pretty much completely the opposite of the way we women have been taught to do it. What most of us have been taught to do actually kills a man’s attraction for us.

    We’re taught that we have to be dressed to the hilt, have great hair and makeup and a fabulous figure.
    We’re taught that we have to be smart and witty and have a “great sense of humour”.
    We think that we have to entice him with our sexuality in order to keep him interested.
    We’re taught that a man wants to be “entertained” somehow. That we need to keep him interested. But that’s just not true!

    But what DOES have to do with the attraction a man feels for us, is how attractive WE believe we are. How attracted to OURSELVES we are.
    Because when we find ourselves attractive, we put out a completely different vibe than if we doubt our attractiveness.

    So — finding yourself “acceptably attractive” is like writing out a losing game plan. You’re already putting it out there that you’re “less than.” A man picks up on that, and he will start to lose interest because of it.
    This may be part of the problem of why men only see you as a “friend” or stop calling after a date or two.

    A man just starts to LOSE that attraction for you, and he doesn’t even know why.
    He may TRY to explain it.
    He’ll tell you he doesn’t feel the “chemistry. “He’ll just stop calling. He’ll tell you he’s “too busy” for a relationship.
    That’s where it gets confusing, and you think if you could just “convince” him that his thinking is wrong, everything will be all right.
    And that’s just not how attraction works.

    Attraction is mysterious (even though some elements of it, like pheromones, have been scientifically studied)
    And we forget that as women, WE are mysterious to a man!

    Just because we’re women!

    We’re naturally mesmerizing to a man because he doesn’t quite understand us, but he knows he wants to. He wants to feel the thrill of our femininity and dive deep into our mystery.
    That’s why all we need to have a great man and a great relationship is be our natural selves.

    And of course, since we’ve all been taught to be anything BUT ourselves — this can seem really, really challenging.
    This is how my Modern Siren program can REVERSE all our wrong thinking and false beliefs.
    Modern Siren will show you how to be your most authentic, feminine self and make a man feel THRILLED and SAFE at the same time.
    It will teach you how to create that ATTRACTION that is so needed to pull a man in and make him feel a longing to be around you.
    It will explain what it takes to make a man fall romantically in love with you, not just want to “hang out” with you because he considers you his best pal.

    So much of the time, we belittle ourselves. We look only for our faults instead of focusing on our natural charms. We think, feel and play “small” in our lives because we think that’s how to keep a man’s interest. Modern Siren will turn all that around for you.

    Now, let’s look at a situation in which you are already IN a relationship and it’s going downhill.
    This is a situation where the attraction was there at first, but the man seems to be disinterested in a commitment or taking the relationship to a more connected, long-lasting place.
    Here’s a letter from Gina, who’s been with a man (and without commitment) way too long. You’ll see how she feels so invested in him that her emotions are pushing him away instead of bringing him closer:

    => “Dear Rori,

    He’s the greatest guy really. I’ve loved him since the minute I met him and he’s always been so good (except for some of the fights we’ve had over him not wanting to commit). I’m insecure, and I know I’m doing way too much over functioning like you always talk about, and I just don’t know what to do anymore.

    It’s gotten so we’re not even having as much sex as we were, he doesn’t call as much, I’m not seeing him as much. I don’t even know how this happened to me. I don’t think there’s another woman, but I could be wrong. We’ve been together for about a year and three months and I thought for sure we were going to be forever. Did I screw this up? Is it an Imaginary Relationship that I just thought was real? What should I do?

    Thank you,

    => And here’s my answer for Gina — I’ll put it in terms of Attraction and Connection:

    A man withdraws for three reasons:

    1. He has some serious, deep issues — he may be completely toxic or in a place in his life where a real relationship is simply impossible.
    This is something you have absolutely no control over.

    2. He likes you, actually “cares” for you, but has never fallen in love with you, and doesn’t think you’re “the one.”
    Maybe he hopes that will change and that all of a sudden he’ll fall for you. He sticks around because he likes you and knows you’re a good woman.
    But he doesn’t want to be a bad guy and string you along, so he gets angry, grumpy, attacks you verbally, withdraws, and tries to make YOU leave HIM.
    If this is what’s happening in your situation, you can do one of two things. You can decide for yourself he isn’t worthy of your time, or you can trigger his feelings of romantic, intense love by creating more ATTRACTION with him.

    3. He fell for you right off, he thought you were the one, but since then something’s gone wrong.
    When a relationship is new, it’s normal for a man to cycle between getting close and then backing off before he finally stays for good. If you’re closing him off from your heart and pushing him away by doing the wrong things when
    he’s going through his “distant” phase, you may be preventing him from ever really feeling a solid CONNECTION with you.

    So what is connection?

    A man will feel a connection with you when he senses that you “get” him.

    If you sit around worrying that he’s acting distant or spend your days analyzing and worrying about him, you almost completely close yourself off to the possibility of a connection with him because you’re focused on him in the WRONG way.
    You’re creating insecurity and desperation –by putting your focus on what HE thinks and feels.

    So often we women get way too involved in figuring out what a man thinks or feels about us.
    Where the only important thing that matters is HOW WE FEEL ABOUT OURSELVES IN HIS PRESENCE.
    As soon as we start to focus on THAT, then we can allow ourselves to be curious about HIM. And not about how he feels about us, but about who he is, and how we feel about him.
    AND the only thing that matters about how we feel about him is — to repeat this one more time because it’s so important — how we feel about ourselves when we are in his presence.

    It’s not whether or not we like him, it’s whether or not we like ourselves when we’re with him.

    This is what Connection is. If you feel he “gets” you — and so you feel really great about yourself, you feel gorgeous and attractive and fantastic and smart and happy (and happy is the most important word here) then you are feeling connected to him.

    But you are ONLY truly connected to him if he’s feeling the same way.
    That means, he has to feel that you “get” him, too!

    So this is where you need to focus your energy:
    Do you like who you are when you’re with him?
    How can you express that in a way that will bring him closer and help him CONNECT with you?

    My “Reconnect Your Relationship” program is all about creating a strong connection with him by getting into your feelings when you’re with him, and then expressing those feelings in a way that brings him close.

    If your man isn’t telling you he loves you anymore, or has stopped initiating affection and sex, that means he feels disconnected from you.
    But don’t panic…

    Because you can turn that around almost overnight with my Reconnect program.
    Reconnect helps raise your self-esteem and channel your feelings of jealousy, anger, and desperation into opportunities to open up to him in a way where he can really feel loving and close to you, NOT defensive and closed off.
    With the Tools you’ll get in Reconnect, you’ll finally be able to feel SAFE and LOVED in his presence because you’ll learn how to feel strong around him instead of fearful and desperate.
    You’ll learn how to focus on yourself and stop working so hard and yet get MORE LOVE and attention from him, not less.

    Together with my Modern Siren program, you’ll inspire his love and commitment and feel adored like never before. These two programs together will help you turn around your love life — no matter what it feels like now — into the real, everlasting love you want.
    The principles for an everlasting love are exactly the same whether you’re in a relationship or looking for one. You need to intensify the attraction and connection.
    You can learn everything you need to know about how to create that attraction and connection with these two programs.

    In Modern Siren, I guide you through the 8 Aspects of Being a Siren in such an easy and fun way you’ll begin to see yourself in a completely new and wonderful way.
    You’ll start to see and experience that you really are a Siren — a woman who doesn’t push away but who actually attracts him by being a naturally feminine, emotion-filled, juicy, exciting woman to him.

    In Reconnect Your Relationship you’ll learn why a man withdraws and how to create a strong Connection with him, no matter if this is a man you’ve just met a few weeks ago or if it’s your husband of 20 years.
    If he’s ignoring you, lost in his own thoughts and hobbies, has stopped being affectionate and doesn’t have deep conversations with you anymore, then you’ve lost the Connection.
    “Reconnect” will show you how to turn that around almost instantaneously.

    I know that sounds like a far out claim — but I’ve heard from so many women who tell me how they got amazing, out-of-the-blue, completely unusual results from a man that they had practically given up on.
    And you can have this all without having to “work” hard on it.
    All you have to do is learn how to tap into your mysterious, alluring qualities and let them work their magic on a man.

    These two programs together can help you no matter where you are in your love life. Any woman at any stage of dating and relationship MUST know how to create attraction and connection, or she’ll never have the kind of long-term, fulfilling relationship she’s dreamed of.

    To make lasting changes in your love life, you need to change the way you think and change your approach. The way you’ve been taught to attract and connect to a man just don’t work.
    You’ve been taught that to make love last, you need to focus on the man.

    But the truth is that you need to focus on YOU.

    Whenever you find yourself worried that you’re not good enough, not attractive enough, not sexy enough, not anything enough for any particular man or for men in general, completely flip that around.
    It’s so easy to get caught in worrying whether a man will be attracted to us forever, or that every man we meet will either be boring or break our hearts.
    It’s the result of not believing we’re attractive, or not being in touch with who we are and what we want.

    So I want you to flip this around.

    Instead of beating yourself up when a man rejects you, I want you to become your own best friend and fan.
    Pledge that you will devote yourself to YOU no matter what happens. You will focus on how you feel and what you need, and as a result, your man will naturally start to gravitate toward you.

    I know that Modern Siren and Reconnect Your Relationship will help you with this.
    You’ll learn how to be more authentically yourself and magnetize a man, and you’ll learn how to build a strong connection with the way you express yourself around him.

    Love, Rori


  273.  #273Tereana on May 19, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    So many posts to catch up on…

    Shannon P, I’ve always loved reading your “voice” on the blog. I had no idea you were living in a shelter with your daughter!

    I feel a certain kinship in that I am also “homeless” at the moment, which I put in quotes, because I am technically homeless all but for the fact that I have not gone to live in a shelter, though I’ve considered it. Friends and sometimes strangers have been kind enough to let me stay with them over the last year-plus since I had to move out of my apartment. As of this moment, a shelter might not let me stay, because, technically, I can live with family. Although living with my mom is a very, very, very bad idea for me, on so many different levels. But I am dealing with that. In my own way…

    Currently I am staying in my grandparents’ home, which is going to new owners in June. Then I am house-sitting/crashing with a friend for six weeks. And in August…??? I’ve no idea. It’s hard for me to think that far into the future with no real prospects of a change. Only hope. And one foot in front of the other.

    I looked at an apartment recently that was sooo lovely. And so reasonably priced. And I so could not afford it. At least, I did not know how exactly that would work, or if it would work. And don’t even have the means right now to write the check to move in. So I decided it a was a no-go. But a good mental image to put on the mental vision board of what I’d like to see for myself in the future, as soon as I can break through the mental patters that are actively STOPPING me and sabotaging my every move the minute I even START to succeed. It is really depressing. I need to make my inner bully my inner friend. And she’s rather stubborn. She is a bully, after all. But bullies just want love the most. Isn’t that right?

    Anyway, sorry, I got side-tracked. Back to you, Shannon. That sounds like an amazing opportunity with the work/training program. You sound incredibly smart and capable. And it may not be the best situation for the moment, but it sounds like this place is going to get you where you need to go…all kinds of love and support. ~ T.

  274.  #274Matt Svenska on May 21, 2014 at 6:34 am

    Wow this is a tough situation to tell someone. But something that must not be left out!

  275.  #275Pamelahealing on May 21, 2014 at 2:11 pm


    I have been moved by your posts. I remember being, “technically” homeless and not being able to afford a place to live. At the time, I lived in California near the ocean.

    I became ill and had to go stay on the sofa of a distant cousin. Meanwhile, they built these beautiful homes nearby and I used to walk in the neighborhood and visualize and imagine that I would one day be able to buy one of these homes.

    It was strange because I could barely afford an apartment. Nevertheless, I continued to walk past the homes and dream. Eventually I moved into an apartment that was not up to my standards but it was at least a start.

    Now many years later, I was walking my dogs today in my neighborhood and I realized, “Wow I live in that neighborhood.” Actually, I now live in Florida and it isn’t the same neighborhood but because I really kept in mind, dreamed about the house I wanted to live, eventually I manifested it.

    I think being homeless was the best thing that ever happened to me. I am sending you good wishes Tereana!


  276.  #276Mandy on May 29, 2014 at 6:19 pm

    I get paid my monthly payment tonight…man I’m stressed. It’s because he’s tapering off alcohol still with the beer and he still has to ask me for money for it, like, “Mommy, can I have some money to go to the store?” UGH. We both hate it equally.

    I wish I could give J my card when I get paid and say here, please help me manage the finances, but that would be weird, wouldn’t it? My card? I’ve seriously considered it before! But I know I have control issues, meaning I feel like I always need to “drive”, because I very seriously feel like if anything I need done is done by someone else it won’t be done EXACTLY how it needs to be done…(It’s the fact that I am diagnosed with a pretty bad case of OCD, which TOTALLY wrecks my ability to breathe and wait until he takes the steering wheel, the fire hose or the row-boat paddles, if you know what I mean.)

    I know now that I have a very special problem, having been taught to advocate for myself being disabled, so I’m always like, “I can do it! I can do it! I’ll do it! Watch me do it!” Almost like a little kid. I can understand why a man might want to make me happy by letting me do some things. But I’m 99% sure J is feeling shot down a lot.

    But he did start making dinner and lunch for us again, so that’s a great sign. And he’s out and about doing his classes at his behavioral health center and going to apply for jobs. I am so proud of him.

    But still, something’s gotta give, I am SO SICK of paying for his beer and cigarettes, that’s $145 a month I could have for myself. And my parents are very very tired of paying his rent when they can barely shell out money fast enough for themselves and their own kids.

    Until he gets employed again (which he’s working very hard on) how can I make it more comfy between us? Do I give him the amount he needs and let him take care of his own stuff and say “Hey, if you have none left before next month it’s not my problem”? Or is that very mom-like? Sounds mom-like to me. I don’t believe he’s tapered enough to the point of quitting cold-turkey yet, but something’s gotta give.

    Also, my parents pay our rent, and my mom is pressuring the ever-living-hell out of me to tell his parents to pay his half of the rent. I told his mom what was going on, but not in a way that was asking her to do anything.

    Very confused. I’m sorry for just jumping in like that randomly, I don’t mean to seem impersonal, and I tend to randomly jump in a lot here, but I can barely get a moment alone to do it sometimes.

    I hope everyone is doing well and that our minds can and will be free of things un-Sireny and heavy, and that we can fly and frolick! 🙂

  277.  #277Shannon P. on May 30, 2014 at 5:34 am

    I personally would feel fine giving him the money. I wouldn’t say anything about not getting more… “Hi honey. Here’s the money budgeted for the month for your cigarettes and alcohol. I feel mothering when I manage it, so I would feel much better if you were to do it, instead.”

    Then if he asks for more, simply say, “Oh, I feel uncomfortable! There’s no more room for that in the budget.” If he insists, “I feel upset. I don’t have more money for that right now.”

  278.  #278Femininewoman on May 30, 2014 at 5:53 am

    I think Shannon’s suggestion is great. It will give him the opportunity to take responsibility for his own actions.