What We’ve Learned In Group Coaching Class – 6 Things That Are Holding You Back From Love

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These are the top 6 things (so far) holding you back from lifelong love (and I’m going to just sketch them out here and then expand on them bit by bit):

1. Urgency

Urgency happens when your boy energy – your inner Knight in Shining Armor –  is going unemployed.

He’s foundering.

You’re giving him nothing to do.

The solutions :

***Adopt a new mantra – “I have all the time in the world…”

***Circular Dating!

***Find and DO the things that create passion in you – artistic things, creative things, volunteer activist things…

Give your inner “boy” a task that’s meaningful, complex and will get RESULTS!

What happens now is – the urgency fades!

2. NOT doing Circular Dating properly.

Specifically – not doing Online Dating properly with a good photo and profile.

This is something your inner “boy” will grab onto with all teeth if you really assign the job to him!

If you really put your heart and soul and grunt work into DOING this.

3. Deciding your “Biography” is your “Destiny”

Just because it happened to you, just because you “did” that – no matter how many times – doesn’t mean it has to happen or you have to do that again.  You get a fresh start every moment.

Go watch “Groundhog Day.” Yes, a film, that illustrates the process of learning.

It may take you a thousand false starts and dead-ends to learn where the best next step is for you…and it might take you one day.  The thing is – if you don’t take it one day at a time, one moment at a time, if you try to leap ahead (the way Bill Murray does in many of his “days”) – you’re guaranteed to be inauthentic.

And nothing really works when you’re not being authentically who you are – however you are.

Most important – who really knows who we are?  So the process of authenticity is a process of discovery, too…

No leaping! Baby-step-by-baby-step!

4. Seeking to be in charge of LIFE and by so doing stepping down from being in charge of YOU

Here you succumb to the tyrant voices inside your own head and you make them real.

Here, you believe God is speaking to you through your tyrant voices – and they are all so truly love-starved and frightened, they cannot be the voice of God.

Your inner voice, the voice of God will calm you down. It will slow you down. It will feel peaceful no matter what.

The voices of urgency inside you are tyrant voices that you must heal.

5. Trying to heal yourself inside by “conquering”  instead of loving.

If you don’t like the way you feel, or the way you acted, or what you said, or what you thought…it will hold you back.

If you rag on yourself – what’s out there will rag on you, too…because, really – that’s your choice!

Mistakes are part of the process.

You cannot discover anything new or get anywhere new without making mistakes. You have to feel your way through each step along the way

You have no choice here but to love what you feel, the way you act, what you say, what you think…and then to make DIFFERENT choices in the next moment.

Blame is so useless and worthless – and yet, along with shame and guilt, blame runs us from the inside.

Make it your business to become aware of how blame, shame and guilt are operating inside you and making you do and say what you do and say on the outside.

And instead of blaming, shaming and guilting yourself even more for what happened, what you did and said and everything else – including how you feel – instead of trying to conquer all that…just love it as it is.

Accept how it happened.  It happened. Don’t try to undo what’s been done – instead – focus on being AWARE of what happened, how you felt, what’s going on with you, and love the idea of undoing the pattern that makes things repeat themselves.

Be a detective of you. Don’t judge yourself – you can’t learn if you judge.

Free yourself up to take a new step in a different direction.

To experiment.

Try something new.

Love it all just because it’s the best choice to make, the most freeing choice.

If “forgiveness” needs to come first before love for you – then forgive yourself for even thinking about blaming yourself…and let go enough to take another step.

Then love what you forgave, and love yourself for even being able to take a new step!

6. Choosing “chemistry” over the “whole package.”

Every relationship coach will tell you the same thing:  Love does not spring from Chemistry.

Especially if your “man picker” is off.

Chemistry can be discovered later – after you’ve gotten through your own obstacles to intimacy.

Chemistry can spring from intimacy. Trust. Opening up inside in someone’s presence.

You can love someone for reasons you’ve never even dreamed of.

I’m not saying to live your life with a man without chemistry.  I’m just saying don’t make that primary, don’t choose because of it – either because there’s a lot of it or none of it at first.

Give a man a chance.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Me first, me first! 😆

  2.  #2Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 7:48 am

    “Free yourself up to take a new step in a different direction.

    To experiment.”

    I am voting for me by freeing myself to take that new step.

  3.  #3Kimberly on May 23, 2011 at 8:12 am

    I am feeling so lost with all of this. I read the ebook and have been trying to circular date, but I can’t seem to figure out how to lean back and still indicate interest. Time and time again, I am being put in the friend zone or the man simply doesn’t step up or follow through with anything. I’d love your suggestions. Thank you.

  4.  #4JennS on May 23, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Hi Sirens-
    I missed the other blog on FM’s..
    I would love some assistance on one particular message..
    I would like to let x know that I miss how it feels to be with him and spend time.. etc..but I dont wantt o be pushy r lean forward..
    so how would I say it..?
    how’s this..” You know, I would reallly like to tell you that I miss how good it all feels to be with you but when I think of saying that, it makes me feel like I am being pushy or not respecting your boundaries and that doesn’t feel good. And I want to let you know that I do miss spending time with you.. the conversations, the peaceful feeling.. etc”..

    How’s that?? Ugh.. this is so new..
    thanks Sirens..

  5.  #5JennS on May 23, 2011 at 8:20 am

    I hear you! It is hard at first.. I am stumbling too.. but the ladies on this blog can be very insightful.. keep reading and be patient and loving with yourself.. 🙂

  6.  #6Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Kimberly it might be as Rori puts it “your man picker is off”. You could be picking man/boys, something I am excellent at also. It works with great men and we have to keep trying to get better until we “attract” the man. Many times the great man steps up but it triggers our own fear or we are not attracted to him.

  7.  #7Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 8:31 am

    “You can really date a lot of men at the same time and only get exclusively involved with a man you’re sure wants to make you happy and who has made a commitment to you”.

    These words were in the email from Rori. Hope Lurker reads this and those who were a bit unclear of the CDating practice. For the uncertainty is in when I am sure. I tend to always doubt and question things or find the reasons why not.

  8.  #8Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 8:33 am

    JennS Lercomari did in very early on the other thread where she wrote out her conversation I believe it was about No. 3. I would check it out if I were you.

  9.  #9Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 8:43 am

    6. FW
    Good points 🙂 have begun working with The Soulmate Secret in amping up carving out the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual space that will allow me to 1) recognize my great, non-man-boy man. and 2) to be able to pursue the connection with him…and I peg this man appearing around December of this year, that gives me six months to get ready and be fully prepared…but of course I am flexible 🙂

  10.  #10Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Hi FW.

    I think Lurker is pretty clear on the CD practice. His point, (and mine) was that there may be propotionately few men who will go along with their girlfriend dating other men whilst telling him he can’t.

    I’m sure there are plenty of examples where this was the case, but probably alot more where the men simply said, “F*** that!” And either broke up, or decided to date other women themselves.

    If a man won’t give a woman the commitment she wants, then by all means she should consider breaking exclusivity. But I also think she should realize the ramifications of breaking exclusivity – that is it very well might go both ways.

    What do you think?

  11.  #11Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Some CCarter email comments I find interesting

    Getting clear about what you want will help guide your mind in all kinds of POSITIVE DIRECTIONS to help you find and attract the right situations and people in your life. But, unfortunately, being CLEAR and HONEST is not that simple for most women when “the rubber meets the road” in dating and relationships.

    And the most dreaded fear of all…REJECTION and ABANDONMENT. These two things are SO STRONG AND POWERFUL that something fascinating happens in the woman’s mind when there’s even a small potential for either of these…. Their mind starts a cycle of SELF-DECEPTION.
    Here’s how it works…The fear of pain and loss often leads us to ignore our thoughts and intuition and replace our fearful thoughts with happier thoughts that make us feel comfortable. It’s the mind’s “emotional defense mechanism.”

    Remember, if you communicate with a man in a way that assumes, begs, convinces, or makes him think that you’re “entitled” to a relationship and a commitment with him, he will NEVER, EVER respect you and want to stay for the long-term.
    A man’s reasons for committing, or not committing, are his FEELINGS and EMOTIONS.
    Sounds simple, but it’s profound and true.
    The “masculine” part of a man has to FEEL like he is naturally and of his own free will CHOOSING to be with a woman.
    If this happens, his commitment will usually be strong and lasting.
    But if he commits because a woman has been talking to him and analyzing things to show him how a relationship really makes “sense”, then his commitment won’t be strong… and it probably won’t last.

  12.  #12Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Lily T RE 10 I am not sure whose words they are but as far as I am concerned no girl can be a guys girlfriend unless there is mutual agreement. He can only ask you to be and if you don’t categorically say yes then you are free to date. If in his mind he is calling or labelling you as his girlfriend, to me is imaginary.

  13.  #13Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Also are you suggesting there can be exclusivity without commitment?

  14.  #14Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Okay. Got that. But if one isn’t a girlfriend, then why would she being telling a man he can’t date anyone but her?

  15.  #15Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Not everyone views marriage as the ONLY commitment. Exclusivity is a form of commitment for some people.

  16.  #16Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:13 am

    10. Lily T.

    I know you addressed this to FW, but I would like to join in and add something to this convo, too.

    I realize this may not be a popular view here, but I’d like to share that I am beginning to not believe in or pursue relationship with an eye on, or having the goal be, obtaining a commitment.

    It just seems to work against everything — love, true friendship, honesty, trust…
    almost like when commitment is the goal, you’re just setting things up to fail.

    If there is genuine love between two people, the issue of commitment doesn’t arise, because real love trumps commitment as a condition. There is automatic love and respect and no need for commitment.

    This is I think where the Alarm Bell thing that Lillbelle mentioned comes in.

    If a man and woman truly love each other and know they want to be each other’s life partners, it doesn’t matter what you are doing, and he will do what it takes to ensure that natural commitment takes place, without it ever having to even be put on the table.

    That’s what I think. What do you think?


  17.  #17Lucy on May 23, 2011 at 9:14 am

    I miss SLV. 🙁

  18.  #18Lucy on May 23, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Elizabeth 16. I so agree with you! I had never even heard of “getting a commitment” as a goal, etc. until I started reading relationship stuff online. In all my past relationships the commitment happened naturally, as you say, and – I think Tinque says this of her relationship? – it wasn’t even a formal type thing, except in the case of the engagements and one marriage. I feel refreshed to hear you say this.

  19.  #19Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:22 am

    11. FW

    What CC is saying is that they have the need to believe it’s their idea, and that they are the ones doing the choosing. but I really wish he’d stay away from the armchair psychology. 😉


  20.  #20Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Thanks for joining in Elizabeth. 🙂

    I agree with you. “If there is genuine love between two people, the issue of commitment doesn’t arise, because real love trumps commitment as a condition. …If a man and woman truly love each other and know they want to be each other’s life partners, it doesn’t matter what you are doing, and he will do what it takes to ensure that natural commitment takes place, without it ever having to even be put on the table.”

    I also understand that legal marriage IS important to some women and they don’t want to settle for anything less. For them, CD’ing until they get a proposal may be the way to go.

    Frankly, I just don’t see many men willing to go along with the “She continues to date, while I remain exclusive to her until I’m ready to propose” scenario.

    That’s what Lurker and I commented about on the last thread.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:26 am

    I guess that psychology works for some and if that is the type of guy we tend to choose then maybe we need to change that. I believe not all men are the same but sometimes we don’t realize that so we are not clear that we need to move on.

  22.  #22Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Thanks, Lucy 🙂

    Even tho there were other issues involved in my last relationship, I am quite sure that giving the girlfriend speech, me bringing up exclusivity, and having an eye on wanting some kind of guarantee, contributed to its derailment.

    Then I felt that since I put it out there, I couldn’t retract it because what would that say about me and my boundaries?

    This both feels good and doesn’t feel good to admit, actually.

    It feels good because I am taking responsibility for my part, and not good in case it screwed up something good. But like I said, there were other issues, so that wasn’t the whole problem.



  23.  #23Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Elizabeth I have to look it up but there is a book by psychologist Karen Horney, maybe Female Psychology, where she talks about the natural conflicts that arises in relationships. We seem to believe they should not exist but the reality is that it does.

  24.  #24Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Lily T my understanding is because he is choosing for himself what he wants regardless of what you are doing. Loneplum posted to someone last week about that concept. I have also had a guy tell me he does not care what I or anyone else says. He wants what he wants and he is going for it. I have seen the knight in shining armor jumping out as result of this same thing. Some coaches even recommend avoiding the “cock fight” as a result but many times we see it play out in movies, such as Sex and The City for example when two guys were fighting over Carrie.

  25.  #25Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:37 am

    #24 Again I understand what you are saying FW. But you are avoiding what *I* am questioning: Men willingly being exclusive to women who are dating others.

  26.  #26Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 9:38 am

    My understanding is that bringing up exclusivity after having sex is not the right way to go. I also understand it is masculine and goes against the natural instinct of the male so he views it as desparate and demanding or as a harsh request. Every time I have done that I remember the guy pulling away, even when there was no sex. I have tried it in both scenarios. Looking back now I can see it as me being attached to an outcome and trying to control how things should go and being more invested that the guy. I have had one come back to admit that he is not even aware of what happened. This told me it was all unconscious and me pushing those buttons.

  27.  #27Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Lily T

    “Frankly, I just don’t see many men willing to go along with the “She continues to date, while I remain exclusive to her until I’m ready to propose” scenario.”

    I can tell you from my last experience that it didn’t fly, and I’m pretty sure was part of what was referred to as an idealistic paradigm.

    Communication was really tough with him and it seemed like everything had to be relied on what was *not” being said, do you know what I mean? Too much room for false assumptions, ambiguity, guessing games, mind-reading.

    I mean, I know that it strikes a great fear in the hearts of many men when they have a feeling that “a talk” is coming up, but the more mature and evolved ones know that sharing thoughts, beliefs, concerns, plans, goals, that involve the relationship itself, is a necessary and vital part of a whole, deep, loving partnership.

    I insist on a man walking his talk, as i insist upon it in myself.


  28.  #28Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:43 am

    26. FW

    Yes. A lesson learned here.


  29.  #29Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:46 am

    more on 26
    Although, I brought up exclusivity before intimacy, but i mistook silence to be agreement.

    This is one of the other problems I was referring to, going back to the double standard topic which janjune brought up in the last thread.


  30.  #30Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:48 am

    I’ve never been in a relationship where I wanted more of a commitment than was offered me. In each relationship I was the one to delay marriage. (For good instinctual reasons as it turned out.)

    Nevertheless, I can say with near certainty, none of the men who cared for me would EVER had agreed for me to date others while they remained monogamous to me.

  31.  #31Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 9:52 am

    I used to assume exclusivity when I had sex with someone. Mistake.

    Now, since I don’t want to share my body with someone who is sharing his with others, sexual exclusivity is one of my conditions for intimacy.

    If it “runs a guy off” – so be it. Automatic weed-out the way I see it.

  32.  #32Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:55 am

    30. Lily T.

    I admit I was more after sexual exclusivity than any kind of permanent commitment with this last one. Even though I was certainly open to it, because there was a good connection. I didn’t quite know if he had what it took to be my life partner, but was giving the chance. I have the sense that he thought I was just hanging out with him til something better came along, and I felt that I wasn’t readily figuring into his LTR plans either, because I was receiving so many mixed signals.


  33.  #33Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 9:58 am

    31. Lily T.

    Yes to all of what you said well and simply.

    It’s like Rosa what said that sticks in my mind,

    I’m not willing to be one of the mares in some man’s stable. uh uh, no can do.


  34.  #34Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 10:04 am

    #32 Elizabeth,
    What’s wrong with sexual exclusivity early on?

    I wouldn’t expect from a man, or myself, a permanent commitment until we had gotten to know each other very well.

    And the mixed signals? Well, that’s usually typical of someone who likes you, but isn’t that into you, isn’t it? 😉

  35.  #35Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 10:14 am

    34. Lily

    There’s nothing wrong with it, and I insist upon it. I just don’t want to be the one to bring it up. 😉

    Mixed signals meaning, likes you but is not that into you, yup, that pretty much defined this rel, from both ends. Combined with the fact that he couldn’t deal with triggers as well as I could (going back to the inner work concept).

    But damn, sometimes a gal just wants to know that someone really wants them, even if they don’t really want them all that much back! I know, i’m bad! 😉


  36.  #36Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Lily T I am not avoiding the question. My point is the guy decides and in any event he is not there 24/7 to ensure that you are not doing it. If he really wants you he will do everything to fill up your every free moment and in so doing take away the opportunity to date other guys. Exclusivity includes showing up unannounced. I had a guy tell me about a past relationship where his girl seemed to disappear. When he called to check up on her she told him she was in a particular place two hours away. Needless to say he said he went over there and she was not there. He waited for hours for her to show up and when he questioned her he say it was obvious she ways lying and she was with some other man. He walked away.

  37.  #37Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 10:19 am

    35. Elizabeth,

    “But damn, sometimes a gal just wants to know that someone really wants them, even if they don’t really want them all that much back! I know, i’m bad!”

    Nah, not bad. I think that’s just human nature sometimes. 🙂

  38.  #38Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 10:21 am

    RE 27 Well said Elizabeth.

  39.  #39Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 10:24 am

    #36 FW,

    Yes, a guy who is really into you WILL try to fill up all your free time so you won’t be able (or want to!) date other guys.

    It is a completely different scenario to date multiple men and TELL any of them they can’t date other women. Moreso to expect them to go along with it.

    Rori did an article on this subject presenting it as a concept. My thoughts are that it is, as an arrangement, fairly unlikely.

  40.  #40Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 10:27 am

    I’m not sure that he wasn’t that into me, but I do know a lot had to do with emotional baggage and toxicity. He recently shared that this is very painful for him. I’m just frustrated with the whole thing and shared my disappointment at how he handled things. I thought, but didn’t say, he handled them in an immature and selfish way. I guess I just could not accept him and not willing to work with him where he is at.


  41.  #41Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 10:36 am

    #40 Elizabeth,

    How long did you date him?

    It doesn’t sound like you were “that into him”, so why do you think this is still bothering you?

  42.  #42Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Lily T.
    We dated for six months. It’s not bothering me in a bad way. I just want to make sure I learn all the lessons, receive all the insights and make all the connections for myself so I don’t repeat mistakes. You all on this blog as witness to some of this process and being able to write it out helps a lot.
    Thanks for being here. 🙂

  43.  #43Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 10:49 am


    I was just remembering some guys I wasn’t that into, but seemed to “want more” after they broke it off with me. I think it had more to do with the sting of rejection (so what if I wasn’t that into them, still stings lol!). Also, the fact I got used to having the attention, and then went thru attention withdrawl. 🙂

    As soon as I became interested in someone else though, I couldn’t care less about the previous guy.

    I’m speaking of short term r’ships though, under 3 mos. Dating for 6 mos. and then parting ways is more difficult I imagine. You probably became close during that time. More going on for you.

  44.  #44Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 10:51 am

    and, I dunno…for me, once I do share my heart and body, to whatever extent, it takes some time to shift that man’s place to another part of my heart and psyche, even though my self-esteem didn’t take a hit. I don’t have any regrets about some things I wrote to him in the last letter, which might have been a little harsh, so I feel a little bad about that, but I do believe I did both of us
    a favor in being so direct. It’s all good. 🙂

  45.  #45Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 10:52 am


    RE: #3 – Here’s how to make it simple and summarize “leaning back” in one word:

    SMILE! 😀

  46.  #46Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 11:40 am

    #44 Elizabeth

    What was his reaction to your letter? Curious. 🙂

  47.  #47Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Thank you Rori. This post about Urgency. Is awesome.

    Makes sense as to why I suddenly don’t want to ‘have sec NOW’ when I start doing other stuff that captures me.

    My Mars was unemployed and it was bringing on that urgency.

    I have all the time in the world..,

  48.  #48FlowerChild77 on May 23, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    What is this ‘list’ that I see talked about in some posts? Is it something I missed on the blog, here—or something from another coach/author?

    I’m just curious…

    Thanks 🙂

  49.  #49Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    RE 48 It is apparently something in book some people are reading.

  50.  #50Boomer on May 23, 2011 at 12:25 pm


    “The List: 7 Ways to Tell If He’s Going to Marry You–in 30 Days or Less! ”

    Some women on here have read it and swear by it…

  51.  #51JennS on May 23, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Yes, sometiimes a gal just wants to know they are wanted..
    I totally agree.. even if we don’t want them back!
    I posted an earlier Feeling message.. practice thing.. seeing how I can just be with my feelings with x and share that I do miss him and how good it feels being iwth him.. but I wantto respect his boundaries so I feel a bit cautious to say it.. but on the other hand.. I also feel a bit still in the not sure what to do phase.. except lean wayyy back and give him the “break” he requested. what do you think? how would you approach a feeling message that still respects a boundary and yet has you feel good about what you are sharing?

  52.  #52Boomer on May 23, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    OK, Sirens. What about sex???

    How does a siren do sex?

    Specifically, does a siren:

    – Wait for him to initiate?
    – Wait for him to move from step A to step B to step C to step D? (Kissing to fondling to in-the-pants to asking for “the deed”)?
    – Kiss suggestively and assertively? Or go with the flow…passionately if it’s called for? Or always just follow his lead?? What if he is TOO SLOW for your level of desire?
    – Ever say no as a rule???
    – Ask for what she wants???
    – Ever get to talk dirty?
    – Speak in FMs even during sex??? Especially during sex?

    I have been taking it slowly with IndyMan and will continue to do so. But the subject has come up tangentially (he is ever the gentleman, so he’s not being nearly as direct as most men I have known can be). But it could come up this next weekend as a possibility. At least a more specific conversation about it.

    I am getting better at the being in my girl energy, using FMs, being Siren-like in my degree of difficulty…but I am at a loss with the sex part. I suspect it’s this step that blows it for me (no pun intended)…I can be…well…I am an enthusiastic partner. Do we lean back then too???

    Any help is appreciated…


  53.  #53Boomer on May 23, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    JennS…why do you feel you have to send it?

    How long has it been since he requested “the break?”

    My inclination is to say…without knowing all the details…wait. Or better yet…don’t.

    What do you think??

  54.  #54JennS on May 23, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    not a send. an in person if I see him.. which is highly likely.. it’s been a few weeks. I have dissconnected myself and have been taking care of myself.. but I still feel like sharing how I feel.. or not! I may in the moment.. just say hi and walk away..

    In terms of what you posted.. I would let yourself feel what you want to do and be confident in your choices at every moment.. if you feel like kissing first.. go for it.. if not.. lean back.. I think this is all about how WE feel and how comfortable we are in our skin and choices.. 😉

  55.  #55Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    46. Lily T

    no reply, and I didn’t expect, nor am I expecting one.
    it was a gift to myself and to him. 🙂


  56.  #56Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Jenn S…be back later 🙂

  57.  #57janjune on May 23, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    just posted a reply to your comment on the previous thread.

  58.  #58turquoise3 on May 23, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Boomer…lol, I can be an enthusiastic partner too, and have gotten a lot of compliments on my desire for sex, making them feel wanted, technique, etc. I think it’s good to change things up, and while I may initiate a kiss………. not the first time. Pretty much what I think men want, is like that saying… a lady in the street and a freak in the sheets. Of course all men are different, etc. Tom liked to lead, he wanted to initiate, kiss me, be more in control in the bedroom, but I had to take charge at times too… to make things work if you know what I mean. Be open to new things, what they want, I absolutely think sirens ask for what they want. Even if it’s just, that feels good… I like that, etc. I also have a few rules, which I state if it comes up.

    I could really use some sex….. this is when a FWB situation would be great!

  59.  #59tinque on May 23, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Boomer – In the beginning especially, usually it’s a good idea to let him row the boat here too. I’m not of course suggesting you lay there passively. You can “give him instructions” so to speak through your responses, how you’re moving in reaction to is touch, the sounds you are making.

    As for talking dirty and initiating, it’s best to wait until you know each other much better.

  60.  #60turquoise3 on May 23, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Ok so Mike2 (laid off, living with his parents, but starting school and looking for work) wants to see me tomorrow night but didn’t make a suggestion as to what to do. When I asked, he said it didn’t matter to him. So, I replied, “I’d rather you pick.” He writes, :Well, I’m real short on cash, but do you want to grab a bite to eat?”

    I reply “sure, or we could hold off until things improve there. I don’t want you to be stressed about it.”

    He’s says, “I’m not stressed about it. It’s fine, we can do something. I just want you to be comfortable.”

    Which sounds sweet…. but am thinking he’s going to want me to pay, at least my half. What do I do?

    I just spent $300 on a new washer this morning… I’m a little strapped for cash too. Which isn’t really the point. BUT, so then what? Do I not date him until he gets a job? He was laid off because he got so sick he had to be hospitalized. Sirens…..opinions???

  61.  #61Boomer on May 23, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Turquoise. Thanks for the input.

    To say that I…um….excel in this area would be an understatement. Hee.

    Here I am with a possible opportunity to “do it right” emotionally with a good guy, and I’m feeling trepidatious about messing it up by being too far outside my girl energy in bed.

    He is actually more freaky than his boy scout exterior would indicate. (He really was a boy scout…an Eagle Scout, which is a big accomplishment, but which is also generally seen as “nerdy” in American culture. It’s something of a joke if you are not familiar with the American stereotype of “boy scout.”) His freaky undercoating is starting to intrigue me actually.

    What does Rori say? I’m sure Tinque has some thoughts as well…

  62.  #62janjune on May 23, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    i keep trying to catch up with you when you’re on the blog to tell you how good it felt to get your reply about two threads back because you were saying something i’d said that had resonated with you. and that felt *extra* cool because the things you were vibing on were things that came up for me when i was reading *your* comments that day 🙂
    i mean, seriously, every post you made that day, i was like, yeh, yeh, yeh, and that too, and yeh that too, oh yeh, femininewoman has really *got* this. i feel this way today again too. love reading your comments and feel you really have the core of rori’s concepts FIRMLY embedded into yourself. i will get there eventually! i know i will.
    but anyway that felt to me like a kind of tiny, two-person, full-circle experience.
    seeing how this process works feels really good.

  63.  #63Boomer on May 23, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Oh, Turquoise.

    Hmmm. Maybe you could prompt him to brainstorm inexpensive options…make him do most of the brain work, but know your likely targets: A hot dog or ice cream cone at the cart and a walk in the park? A picnic? He provides some of the food and you provide some (that way you get fed decently, but you did not “buy”). Just an appetizer at an Applebee’s or something (make it early and order a Diet Coke — no alcohol).

    Assure him that you would be happy with some small event and a chance to chat with him.

  64.  #64turquoise3 on May 23, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Those are good ideas Boomer, and I always order something reasonable off the menu. And definitely no alcohol, not a big deal to me anyways, but can really raise the bill. The hard part is, I think he’s really looking for a relationship, and I would love, just once to date a man who spoiled me like my ex husband. I miss having a guy who plans special dates, buys presents, takes me to shows/concerts/games. I’ve had some good dates, but my relationships have definitely been lacking in the gift/giving flowers for no reason area. But, that isn’t more important to me than being loved. SO, maybe a good test to not be thinking that way right now. I need to learn to be more frugal myself. That just usually means a dvd on my couch, and then I’m disappointed. Ugh, I don’t know!

    Feeling confuzzled today. Why is the universe bringing this guy to me?

  65.  #65tinque on May 23, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    More sex thoughts. Just to let you know, I initiate most of the time now, but it wasn’t like this for a long time.

    And even though I like to initiate since he’s not as in the mood due to work stresses, I let him take the lead mostly while we’re, well…you know.

    But that’s what works well for us. All couples are different. Some men may love to have the woman “be in charge” some of the time.

    It’s just usually a good idea in the early stages to let him lead, and then take it from there.


  66.  #66janjune on May 23, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    since you can’t really *ask* him if he’s planning to pay, i would go (and be prepared to pay for what i order) and see what he does.
    then see how i feel about it.
    seems like it could be good practice for feeling your feelings around what sounds like an important issue for you — men who love to give you things that being you pleasure.

  67.  #67Femininewoman on May 23, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    RE 62 janjune you caught me. Thanks.

  68.  #68SummerBaby on May 23, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    in the bedroom is where I let my “boy” energy show. and my guy digs it. He initiates the actual wanting and starts it, but once we’re in the bedroom, I take over. it’s all about me there, and boomer, it’s a blast.

    I get that you’re good. revel in it. let him lead. if he’s worth spending time with, he’ll ask you how to please you… once he asks, you’re in the driver’s seat. so ENJOY!!!


  69.  #69janjune on May 23, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    so interesting… the sex issue.
    if a man didn’t initiate if i wanted to have sex, i wouldn’t pursue it. it feels too flacid to me. i mean the *situation* feels too flacid to me. lol like he doesn’t have enough testosterone to carry on life
    or that he’s not into me physically… like he would be having mercy sex.
    either way it would dampen my desire. it would get into my head. i know i would feel less than, needy.
    for me, men need to *want* to have sex with me. i’m just saying that for me it’s that way. maybe there is a different angle to view this from that would allow seeing it differently.

    on the other hand if a man is being respectful because i have told him i don’t do hook ups or don’t plan to have sex until i’m married, that would be alright.

    i did initiate with my husband once in a while, not very often at all, he LOVED it. he wanted me to do it more, but we fought so much i just didn’t feel like it. i don’t have any issue with initiating sex when if i want it, when i’m in a secure, committed, loving relationship.

  70.  #70Daria on May 23, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    I feel frightened of missing out by not using my boy during sex.

    I feel jealous when I watch other women initiate sex w men, and it triggers me to feel lonely and unattractive.

    And I feel SO good when I’m in my feminine energy sexually. I feel hot and floating and swept away, and Soo attractive to soften my body everywhere and receive his touch.

    I feel curious about having sex this way.

    I’m feeling doubtful –

    I feel so inexperienced sometimes

    I feel 100% confident in my man-pleasuring skills.

    I want to feel the same about receiving pleasure.

    I ‘do it’ making out etc so differently now from the past of boy energy in sex.

    I feel thrilled and timeless when my lips feel sensitive and are hovering in from of him… And I’m leaning back … And he kisses Me . That feels so good. It feels so soft. I feel so female.

    I’m feeling turned on now thinking about this.

  71.  #71janjune on May 23, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    i feel in amazement of this process.
    i feel more ready to discern who is healthy for me and who isn’t.
    and i feel more able to handle the avalanche of men that flow in and out of my circle, who to stay away from, who to let in, how to tell the difference.

    i feel alot less anger toward men.
    a lot less confusion.
    alot stronger on the inside.
    i feel healthy and good and freer to express my soft on the outside.
    i don’t have to worry about what a man wants from me or with me.
    i don’t have to worry about a name he calls women.
    i don’t have to worry if he sees women as pu$$y and not as a person.
    because if he does, it will show.
    and i will leave.
    that’s not the kind of man i want and i can take my oxytocin and go elsewhere.
    i don’t have to get hung up on a man who’s not good for me.
    i can control the outcome, MY outcome.
    i don’t have to let fear of the type of man i don’t want keep me from teh man i DO want. cause i know men i could be enjoying being with are there.
    i’m taking my own advice that i gave to the lurkster to not keep himself away from women who want a man like him.
    well, i’m not going to let the men i consider to be Aholes keep me from finding my Mr. Right. even if i don’t want to get married and i don’t think i do.
    but i do know for sure that i would like a committed relationship with someone who loves me, who i respect and trust. that’s it.
    i know there are glitches to work through yet to get there fully, but it will come together, it’s all pulling together and will click into place soon.
    i know it will.

    i feel capable of protecting myself.
    i feel capable of hearing and noticing and listening to my *own* alarms and bells. like not shutting them down on myself–oooh, that feels bad even thinking about shutting them off…
    i feel more powerful. i feel more trusting of myself. i believe that nobody knows *for* me *but* me. and that’s the committment i’m making right now.
    to listen and don’t turn my alarms off, but to stop. and listen. and don’t switch them off. i know that makes me strong on the inside.
    i relish that.
    i accept that into my life, for my life, forever.
    the committment is made. it stands.
    my committment to myself and no other first.
    if he decides to leave me, he leaves.
    i will take care of me.
    i will love me.
    i will forgive me.
    i will be compassionate, as i am. i feel compassion and i will express it openly and outwardly and honestly.
    i will also hold the line on behavior that doesn’t match with what is good for me.
    my healthiness comes first.
    i will stand up for me.
    i will protect me.
    i will listen to myself.
    i will trust myself.
    i believe in myself.
    i know i’m good.
    i know i’m worthy.
    i know i’m worthy and capable of a fine man and a beautiful relationship. and i can add to it and leave the past and the clutter behind in my wake as i move forward.
    im seeing a speedboat, red and white with a little white flag on the front hopping over the waves.

  72.  #72Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Elizabeth, Lily-T – yeah, I’m also wondering about CDing and ‘the commitment’. What you say really resonates with me.

    I do feel triggered by this idea that the ‘commitment’ is some kind of goal. I did feel earlier on that maybe ‘there’s something wrong with me’ coz I didn’t feel this way.

    I too, Elizabeth, feel that my girlfriend speech and that I would CD kinda pushed my man away. I was afraid that if I didn’t do it, I would fall to my old patterns and he would leave/ it wouldn’t work out.

    Well, turns out this didn’t work either.

    I understand the broader picture of CDing and how this makes sense.

    I wouldn’t date a man who is dating other women. I guess the point is for him to feel attracted and WANT to commit – verbal or non-verbal – doesn’t matter.

    When he is dating other women, the likelihood of it is somewhat slim – and this also sounds like a limiting belief to me.

    I guess, I just would not want him making out with other women and having a great time. I would want him to want and choose to be with me.

    I feel that the idea that ‘men need time to be ready and that’s why I CD to keep myself sane while he figures it out’ – feels really limiting to me and downright awful!

    If anything, my experience is that men want to date me and commit to me – and I haven’t been ready/ open. I fall into drama, which I think pushes them away – but I don’t know for sure….

    I love what you say in 9 Elizabeth. This is exactly how I feel.

    If my man comes back to me, or the next man. I’m really going to rethink all these ‘speeches’. I’ll do what feels natural to me. I can even CD men. It’s not natural for 3 men to date me a week and all want to make out with me.

    My recent men CDs have been 5 or 6 men all giving to me at the same time. It’s me and 6 men – no competition – and I feel free and relaxed.

    I still miss my man after these CDs. We had a deeper connection. I feel sad that he may have had the idea that my men CDs would be like dates with him – hot, steamy and romantic. It’s nothing like that.

    Perhaps it’s about tweaking.

    I’ve learned a lot and I couldn’t agree more with most of the stuff. I know I don’t want to be a girlfriend – but adding the CDing men line to it – if anything, is a MAJOR turn off to a good man who is already pursuing. That’s my experience.

    And the ‘commitment/ marriage’ thing as a goal. Honestly, I couldn’t care less.

    I want to date available men that could lead to an LTR and the possibility of marriage if and when I feel like it. Or if it would make me feel more secure or happy for all sorts of reasons. Nothing to do with the love or commitment.

    I can’t say that I would want to date a man now and then be married to him in 2 years. That doesn’t even necessarily go with my beliefs.

    Tinque in one of her posts talks about REALLY getting to know someone and that BEGINS at about 3 years. This makes more sense to me.

    I just don’t get the rush. I don’t want to feel rushed. Biological clock or not.

    Ugh! Anyway, had a weird day. Thinking about boundaries and I’m feeling that Urgency Rori talks about in this post.

    Feeling confused about CDing, girlfriend speech and commitment. Though there is nothing to be confused about because it is only happening in my head. My physical reality is peaceful – no man, no stepping up nothing!

    So I just feel like a complete fool even contemplating all this crap!!

    Ugh! I feel angry about today!!! I don’t want people to take advantage of me and I’m sick and tired of people pushing their agenda on me!

    Damnit! Staying on my rock feels like an anger-fest. I feel so angry having to defend myself. I feel like I’m defending myself. I feel angry that one human being would think they can control another.

    I’ve been in this situation SO many times. Choosing to authentically express myself vs. that being taken away/ compromised resulting in me working for money, which inevitably makes me miserable, unappreciated, feeling unworthy of my dreams and goals and delaying my dreams and goals.

    This time, I’m doing it for me. I’m saying NO. I’m sticking to what I want. I WILL NOT WORK FOR MONEY!!

    Whatever it takes, I’m doing what authentically expresses myself. When they have the job ready – they can call me. Till then they can just pi$$ off!!

    I’m not going to fit into someone’s agenda so that they can use me for what they want.

    Give me what I want first. Like that’s the way it works in normal life. I want to feel supported to do my job. I don’t want a job that undermines my value just to get into the institution and meet someone else’s agenda.

    I feel so angry with this. I feel angry with any kind of manipulation – whether it is supposed to work in my ‘favor’ or not… because it doesn’t.

    It ASSUMES that I would work for money and it WORKS in the favor of the one doing the manipulation.

    So that’s a double hit for me. I can so see this.

    God – please give me the courage and strength to stand for what I believe in and to stand up for myself and my worth. Thank you!


  73.  #73Daria on May 23, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    I feel curious if my thought pattern ‘will I get to have sex today? No. 🙁 ‘

    Is part of my subconscious programming to keep me stuck, not getting to the forever after I want.

    I feel so afraid thinking of this. I feel like throwing up.

  74.  #74Daria on May 23, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Oh wow. I feel really freed up when I think of Cicular Dating as a therapeutic process to undo my past patterns of what keeps me from love. To use each man as my therapist, and look for the message… I wonder what he showed up to heal for me today.

    It feels really relaxing to open myself up and tryst that what I want… An intimate lifelong relationship and family… Is good, and it will happen for me without my trying. Quickly and easily a man will come and wrap me up and claim me and offer me an amazing life w him. Offer himself up to me forever.

  75.  #75janjune on May 23, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    keep thinking of it even if you feel like throwing up.
    the answer lies beyond the feeling of throwing up.

  76.  #76janjune on May 23, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    yay queenbee!
    i’m rooting for you.
    stay in the soup 🙂

  77.  #77Daria on May 23, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    I feel curious as to the pull of my mind to certain men.

    I don’t think getright is the one. Yet he comes up in my mind and I think I Want something from him, affection, acknowledgement, honor and great sex.

    He seems real and more ‘here’ while other men I know or don’t know don’t.

    What I feel is: sad . I feel lonely. I feel desperate.

    Lonely. I am feeling lonely .

    Same w t-man, he might be a the one, but I don’t think so.

    I feel curious about sex w him.

    I feel missing of heartwarming closeness.

    I’m feeling lonely

    I feel confused

    Other times I feel fulfilled and unlOnely.

    Then it feels exciting like I will never feel lonely again

    Then I get into this space where my thoughts are the ‘will I have sex today? No? I feel desperate. What can i do to have sex? I can’t take this.’

    The issue seems hormonal.

    And seems like a coverup.

    Pleasuring myself does not seem to relieve the desperateness for very long.

    I feel really needy.

    I wonder how Rori can help me with this.

  78.  #78Lilybelle on May 23, 2011 at 3:31 pm


    I need to spew.



  79.  #79Corin on May 23, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Feeling really interested in the discussions on CDing, commitment and boy/girl energy during sex.

    For me, my man told me on our second date that he wasn’t seeing anyone else but that he didn’t want to know at that point who else I was seeing. It was as though he almost liked the idea of me dating a few people as it made me higher value in his eyes and took the pressure off when he was to decide to be my partner. I felt he was taking this decision slowly because he took it seriously. Being a partner/ boyfriend, in my experience carries a higher responsibility regarding prioritising time, effort, emotional support etc towards the other person that just isn’t required when dating. He then mostly directed the discussions about commitment and these only came after we had got to know each other a bit and discussed values with regards to what we want from a relationship, how we try to communicate etc and after we had started having sex.

    We are now in a position of boyfrend/ girlfriend but I feel we are very clearly working towards deciding if we want to have children together. That to me signifies a far greater commitment than marriage. I feel the decision regarding this is 50:50. I’m kept so busy using Rori’s tools, developing more emotional intimacy than previous relationships, maintaining my self esteem and life outside of him that I would struggle to CD even if i wanted to, which I don’t. It feels like I’m growing and healing so much in this arrangement.

    Rori’s discussion on Urgency really spoke to me. I’m aware that when I feel panicked about how far we have to go in our relationship or focus on any goalposts with self imposed deadlines, that is always the unhealthy, scared part of me taking control.

    I’m working on releasing my urgency and trusting that P is a good man and does really want to make me happy The more I do that, the more he gives me.

  80.  #80Corin on May 23, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    With sex I’m definitely naturally more of a submissive or feminine energy anyway. I really enjoy the submissive role and it works well that P likes being dominant. I will suggest things but it’s generally more me asking what he thinks about the suggestion than ‘claiming’ anything. Having said that as we have explored sex more with each other I have been working on playing with my boy energy. I imagine if I was more naturally boy energy in relation to my sexuality and sexual expression then this would be different.

    The way I see the relationship progressing is for us both to be comfortable exploring both roles but that we will always have our core preferences. That way there’s no competition between us,

  81.  #81Lily T. on May 23, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Hi Queenbeen.

    I really enjoyed your post. I know for many who read and write here, marriage is the goal and that’s how some of the philosophies are oriented. But what about those of us who aren’t specifically marriage oriented?

    I like the heading of this website: “Have The Relationship You Want”. That’s what I have been thinking about – What kind of relationship do I want? Not what kind of man.

    I want a man who will want and enjoy the same kind of relationship *I* want – that sounds easier than trying to fit, cajole, compromise, shoehorn, or in any other way try to convice another person (or myself) to “do this” because it’s what I think would be good and best. (lol)

    I’m exploring the idea that once I define the kind of relationship I truly want, it will be much easier to choose the men who want the same. And those who don’t will flow on by.

    What do you think?

  82.  #82Daria on May 23, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Thank you Janjune

    Im feeling a bit bummed

    riffing out to the tight spots in my body

  83.  #83FlowerChild77 on May 23, 2011 at 3:52 pm


    I’m right there with you, as far as thinking about wanting sex a lot. I’m pretty sure that this (and I speak for myself as well) sends out a vibe of ‘lack’—so it’s actually working against what we are really wanting to attract. (And the same with pining, longing for, missing, etc.) Does this make sense?

    For most of my life (even when I’ve had a partner/husband) I’ve always had a sexual relationship with myself. And while I know, very well, that self-loving orgasms cannot satisfy exactly the same way as being with a man—it keeps my vibe up there and helps me to focus on feeling good.

    It took me many years to get to the point of being able to sexually stay in my feminine energy instead of feeling performance anxiety —worrying so much about how “good” he would think I was–and now I see how I over-functioned even in bed! 😮

    I would have never ‘believed’ it, but by being able to focus on receiving and how *I* feel, I got WAY more ‘all-about-me’ action than I even thought possible. I’m not saying ‘no boy energy’ or ‘never take the initiative’–that’s really fun, sometimes–but this is one example of when less really IS more! 😉

    >>>”that’s not the kind of man i want and i can take my oxytocin and go elsewhere.”<<<

    #71/janjune—I LOVE this! The whole oxytocin issue has always been a huge problem for me (man-crack, as someone used to call it.)

    Oh my…all this sex talk. I absolutely MUST take a nice warm bubble bath tonight, light some candles and….. 😉

  84.  #84Daria on May 23, 2011 at 3:56 pm


    I don’t deserve to enjoy my life while my father works hard (suffers) to provide for me.

    I don’t deserve to feel good and relax while other people are (suffering) providing for me.

    I am a drain.

    If i were not alive, that would be more fair than for me to drain others of their resources that they work hard for.


    men will eventually see the real me and see me as a friend only

    they will fall in love with a woman who’s consistently and at the core feminine

    they will see me as a little boy child

    my little girl child is too … ‘powerless’ and lovely to be ‘seen’ by men

    men are like loud ravaging tasmanian devils


    women will find me too feminine and draining.

    they will resent me


    wow thank you nvs for telling me this!

    this is not true and i intend to heal all this for us.

    i got you and i embrace you and im in charge and am moving to what feels good and i will not abandon you EVER. no matter what.

    ‘that’s impossible’ “you’ve abandoned us before”

    “we don’t trust you” “you are not super man”

    I promise you that i am committed to our happiness and healing.

    i am here for you

    with love

    the woman called Daria

  85.  #85Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    I wonder what men show up to heal in me –

    – That I need to stop attracting married men – maybe I’m not emotionally available?
    – That if a man tells me he’s a drunkard – move him to the friend zone – I can never change him
    – If a man tells me he’s been sick with cancer for 3 years – let him go – I don’t need the drama of thinking it is my job to love this man despite everything that could go wrong
    – If I’m not sexually attracted to a man – so what? Just allow him to step up … knowing that I would ultimately never be with him? – This one feels confusing for me
    – Give a man a free weekend date and let him step up if he wants. No more weekday dates before weekend dates.
    -What about HAman? – I need to turn off the angry NVs. I need to work on my Power so that I can authentically choose him and not from a place of need.

    Been reading HAman’s emails to me in the past. I totally missed it 🙁

    Boohoo! Bad mood galore… feeling so angry and frustrated!


  86.  #86Daria on May 23, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Thank you flowerchild for addressing me.

    I feel more calm. I wrote Rori to ask for her help.

    I feel curious about the lack vibe.

    I’ve been noticing certain times when I feel bad about myself.

    I want to get to a place where I can say: I feel worthless…

    I took some Babysteps with expressing: I feel lonely.

    And: I feel needy.

    Instead of covering that up… And there might be healing in this issue that way.

    Even: ‘I feel horny’ is new for me.

  87.  #87Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Thanks Janjune.

    Hi Lily-T. I totally agree with you and that’s why I love the heading of this website too. I’ve been noticing more and more that what I want really needs to be tailored to my values and what’s important to me in life i.e. my career and how I show up in the world.

    Some things just are – for example, I couldn’t be with a man who had a problem with me being in studio for hours on end (not that I’ve had this experience – but I get the reality of how much time I need to spend perfecting my art – and that’s just it).

    Right now I’m at a place of looking inside myself and getting myself on track – in my Power – exactly where I need/ want to be. I feel this is the only way to shift my vibe to a place where I have clarity and can be really clear on the kind of relationship/ man I would want.

    It’s so strange how every time I get closer to my job being sorted out, I have visions/ images of my future. I feel like falling in love, meeting someone, having a family….

    I see more how I can build my career/ business. I feel totally different than the limbo and struggle I have felt for so many years. The compromises, the back and forth, trial and error … sometimes I just want to drop to my knees and scream ‘WHY??!!’.

    I really feel that not having this part of my life working leaves me powerless and I feel skeptical of being in a relationship.

    So here’s hoping for the best. I’ll probably write something up about my ideal relationship/ man this week… and paint at some point. Then do it again in a few months when I’m feeling powerful as I desire.

    I love that Elizabeth has her peg on December and can do it sooner 🙂 I feel the same if all would work out.


  88.  #88Daria on May 23, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    I am now Not feeling needy, sexually or otherwise.

    I’m feeling good.

    I feel curious about the shift.

  89.  #89FlowerChild77 on May 23, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    (((HUGS))) Daria…I’m sure you’re more familiar with Rori’s tools than I am, but I try to gather up all the lonely/desperate/sadness/unworthiness, etc. and spend time with it–all of it. I have whole playlist of songs that I can’t hear without starting the water works.

    I ‘make a date’ with myself and my soup. I don’t always need the music, but sometimes I listen to it and it helps bring the sad/lonely feelings to the surface–and I consciously FEEL it deep inside my heart and throughout my whole body and eventually let go and feel it in my ‘yoni’. As there have been so many deaths/losses in my life the last 6months it often takes me to the point of falling to my knees. The feelings are SO intense and SO strong.

    But it works. I allow as much time as it takes to sit with my soup until I feel numb and other thoughts start creeping in. That’s how I know I’m ‘done’ for that particular time.

    Of course the feelings are still there and they still come up. If I can, I feel them as they come—but sometimes I can’t just stop and feel and fall to the floor–but I know I have my ‘date’ with this later on and looking forward to it actually helps me.

    I think it’s important that we don’t confuse honoring and taking care of our wants and needs with being “needy” and sending that kind of vibe out to others/Universe.

    QueenBee—can you share a bit more about the comment in post #85 about you possibly being emotionally unavailable? I’ve been with EUmen and always thought of myself as very available–but the deeper I get into my authentic self, I’m beginning to wonder.

  90.  #90Ella on May 23, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Hey I just wrote out a long post about wanting a lover and then lost it!


    Basically I feel horny and want to have great sex again with a man who cares about me.

    Really good, good sex, and stay in bed for hours just messing around, and then lay basking in the bliss that is post coital cuddles.

    And then do it all over again.

    Hot sex pls…


    Yes please universe!


  91.  #91Ella on May 23, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    I realise I haven’t had really good sex for a couple of years… keep picking men who can’t/won’t do it…

    Wonder why.

    Why am I blocking this kind of intimacy for myself?


    I feel afraid that I will never have good sex again.

    And I feel afraid of getting oxytoxined to a man! Ekkk.

    Never even used to think about it, just did it, but these days I want to protect my delicate heart, and good sex feels scary, even though I want it.

    Ok, I will make it safe for you Ella.

    Babysteps to good sex, we have already started.

    And we are ok as we don’t get messed up over men anymore. Well not in a way that could destroy us.

    So it will be ok, you can be free to enjoy what you want, and I’ll take care of you.

    Hmmm, maybe I will do EFT on this!

  92.  #92Ella on May 23, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    And when I do have good sex I am gonna sing this song!


  93.  #93Ella on May 23, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Night Sirens. x

  94.  #94luzydel on May 23, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Hola 🙂

    Yesterday I started to date again…

    I had lunch with a guy I met and went on five dates almost two years ago (E)…he “disapeared” – we never had sex, kissed, or were romantic in any way. I dont feel the chemistry, but I do feel a connection, so perhaps he is what I can call a friend for now.

    Wednesday I may have another short lunch date with another guy who got back to me after six months of MIA (L); the past is comming back sort of.

    I am spending most of the time on myself doing what I like and some times just not doing anything and being lazy after a long week of work…

  95.  #95Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    51 JennS


    Since you’re still in an unsure about what to do phase, and he requested the break, I would say nothing if I were you. If you see him, I would just be like you were last time, easy, breezy, cool, lighthearted, but I wouldn’t share a feeling message like what you were thinking about. It just seems to me like you’d be de-valuing yourself. He doesnt need to hear right now that you miss him. He needs to see you as someone who is going to stay on her own horse and set out to explore her options. What is making you want to share with him that you miss him?

    Yes, sometiimes a gal just wants to know they are wanted..
    I totally agree.. even if we don’t want them back!
    I posted an earlier Feeling message.. practice thing.. seeing how I can just be with my feelings with x and share that I do miss him and how good it feels being iwth him.. but I wantto respect his boundaries so I feel a bit cautious to say it.. but on the other hand.. I also feel a bit still in the not sure what to do phase.. except lean wayyy back and give him the “break” he requested. what do you think? how would you approach a feeling message that still respects a boundary and yet has you feel good about what you are sharing?


  96.  #96Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    57. janjune

    That was really awesome! (your reply on previous thread) I’m going to read it again and mull it over some more.



  97.  #97Violet on May 23, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    I feel like shaking things up a bit.

    ‘W.E.’ has invited me to his place for dinner on Wednesday. I decided that I don’t want to go. I don’t feel like talking to him, being with him, or having anything to do with him.

    It’s nothing personal towards him. I just feel like doing my own thing.

    At the same time, I’m wondering if I’m subconsciously acting in ways to make him work harder for me. I like being with him. He makes me laugh. Nothing I do seems to get to him.

    He and I have known each other about a month. I’ve said before that I’m not ready for a serious relationship. Having physical intimacy would make me feel that it is serious.

    I don’t feel like CDing. I do feel like going places and doing things on my own.

    I look at myself as being a ‘spirited, free spirit’ and independent. I like feeling this way.

    The title of this blog is, ‘6 Things That Are Holding You Back RFrom Love.’ Right now; I’m the only reason holding myself back from love.

    I don’t care whether a man gives me love or not. I have it set in my mind that God give me enough love. I love myself as a result of this.

    Thank you for reading this,

    ~ Violet ~

  98.  #98Sherri on May 23, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    I have been gone for a while now – partly because i was taking a break from everything.

    I don’t know how to move forward any more – the doc came back into town, and kept calling so I we went out. He is dealing with his own stuff and is not ready for a relationship. This I clearly see. We decided to try the friends with benefits thing… that did not work out very well… and we have decided to take a break from that. Now he wants a plan of how we move forward through this as friends. I said I needed some time – that right now I am not sure. He is afraid of losing me – of me not wanting a friendship with him. I don’t know what to do. If i do go forward with him then am I keeping me stuck?

  99.  #99Elizabeth on May 23, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    72. Queenbee

    I really liked a lot of what you said in your post, you touch on so many things that I also ponder and struggle with.

    I’m going to take just this one sentence here right now.:

    “I wouldn’t date a man who is dating other women.”

    I wouldn’t either. Well, let’s put it this way. I wouldn’t be getting physical with them.
    And we just know when they are, dating other women, making out with other women.
    We can feel it. I agree with you, it doesn’t feel good to me either. It would feel like he’s much too wishy-washy or blase about the relationship. I also like what DE had to say about this in the previous thread.

    I want to feel that the man wants to, chooses to, is excited to, looks forward to spend most of his free time together with me, just like a best friend would.

    I’m really starting to get that friendship is a safer basis for a life partnership, and closer to real love. A true friend will still love you if you fail to satisfy all their emotional needs, or aren’t always “there” for them, won’t burden each other with unreasonable emotional demands. You can keep a cooler head when issues come up. Yes, sex and emotion are a natural part of life, but they can’t just stand on their own in a relationship, especially such a significant one.

    I’m starting to be more open to just being friends first with some of the CD’s, and letting things develop as they will, or not, without scrutinizing every little thing that happens.



  100.  #100Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    RE: 89 – Hi Flowerchild. You asked:

    “QueenBee—can you share a bit more about the comment in post #85 about you possibly being emotionally unavailable? I’ve been with EUmen and always thought of myself as very available–but the deeper I get into my authentic self, I’m beginning to wonder.”

    Yeah, you are 100% correct. That was me too. Dating/ Falling in love with EU men. Some of them do everything right, but it’s that one nagging red flag that we over look is the thing driving the EU-lity.

    Strange as it is, me too. I thought they were the ones who were EU. Hello Mirror 🙂

    When I created boundaries where I finally declared my list of what constitutes EU and got it out of the way. I started to see that *I* was part of the problem 🙂

    The married men wanting to give to me etc. is a sure sign that I’m EU. It’s not a bad thing obviously, coz I’m fine with it. I know that I don’t do married men and they know it too.

    However, I’m most authentically myself around married men coz there is never a threat. So they flock. Harmless flirtation, CDing married colleagues at biz lunches – whatever… the vibe is still there and them wanting to give to me.

    Obviously, I can’t change this. It’s like whatever. They feel what they feel towards me and it’s okay. Nothing will ever come of it.

    What it means for me is how to be EA so that I attract more unmarried men. Funny thing is that all the unmarried men around me won’t step up for Sh!TE!

    I almost feel relieved about it, coz that would force me to date boring men 🙂 Or go on boring dates with fun men 🙂

    However, I NEVER do anything I don’t want to do. That goes for boring dates too. I’m probably already putting out the vibe and they probably feel it.

    I do like the attention though…. and I can have fun on any date that I accept.

    I noticed that I’m possibly EU coz I hide out and am not willing to be fully known by my man.

    I guess that’s it. It’s all about being willing to authentically open up and allow him to love me and have what he wants – intimacy with me – without closing down the parts that I think are ugly and he wouldn’t want to see. Not strategizing (albeit subconsciously/ or not) to keep him away, protecting my heart and fighting to keep my ugly parts hidden.

    That would be EA. If you can do that, you are EA 🙂


  101.  #101Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    #99 – Elizabeth, thanks for that!

    This sounds very interesting. I’ve always had it that if I’m friends with a man, it’s almost impossible that I’ll feel attracted to him.

    Then I develop attraction for men who are EU or men who are not giving me the relationship I want.

    I’ve not actually given this friendship thing consideration.

    Like meet a man, he likes me, I feel curious about him enough to develop a Friendship… before I’m even concerned about whether we are ‘dating’ and counting the months… and whether he is acting right or not…

    Mmh, what a blessing. It slows things down, makes room for more in my life – love, joy, bliss – all that there is 🙂

    So for me it looks like –
    -Dating (Friendship context)
    -Dating (Romance and intimacy context)
    -Exclusivity LTR
    -Marriage (if I want to)

    Not too bad. I think what one of the Sirens mentioned in an earlier post is so relevant, that it’s more about whether one wants to have children with a certain man or not.

    This really resonates with me. Well, I guess for me part of a man being EA is that he wants to have a family with me.



  102.  #102CLAUDIA on May 23, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Hi, Rori after almost four years of separation I am back with a man who is not the father of my kids and the first few weeks a lived like a honeymoon after that he change alot, like this sunday a had to work and when I was at home, he invited me to have dinner but, I drove to the place, I had to order to go because he did not get out of the car and I got mad at him we did argue and he tollme that he wont paid for the food and I had no money so I went back to cancel the order, I felt worse than a doormatt, Can I really make him be in love with me? or is nothing to do in this relationship,Thank you.

  103.  #103Kimberly on May 23, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Thank you so much for your comments. When I try to lean back, I feel fear and when I express my feelings, I feel vulnerable. Sometimes I don’t even realize my feelings until the moment has passed. I feel uncomfortable in these situations, so I avoid them. I haven’t even been able to put up an online profile, because I am afraid that people in my small town will see it and know things about me without my being aware of it… especially people I may meet professionally. I meet men, but I rarely get asked out on dates. I feel so frustrated like trying is futile. I am so happy with everything else in my life and I am so tired of trying to figure this out. I feel like nothing I try works. I feel like giving up.

  104.  #104Queenbee on May 23, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    #86 – I love that!

    I feel unworthy!

    I love my unworthiness

    I’ve been resisting this all my life

    Feeling afraid of feeling what I feel

    Feeling unworthy makes me ‘unworthy’

    And it’s not true

    I can feel unworthy – my “I’m not good enough” line and still love myself

    I can love myself through this whole job switch and not take anything that they throw at me, but only what I want and what will move my career forward

    I love myself

    I embrace myself

    I take ALL my feelings with me – all my ill feelings, scariness of change and finally having what I want

    I feel unworthy – hahahaha 🙂

    I love my unworthiness

    I feel whole and complete when I love the ‘ugly’ parts of me that I’ve been resisting, ignoring, trying to change and stuff down

    I just want to love myself more!

    Thank you!


  105.  #105janjune on May 23, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    #83 thanks flowerchild77 🙂

  106.  #106Daria on May 23, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Kimberly – “When I try to lean back, I feel fear and when I express my feelings, I feel vulnerable. Sometimes I don’t even realize my feelings until the moment has passed”

    this is AWESOME. you are noticing how you feel! that is great

    and I can so relate to this…

    my next steps are… yes i feel fear… and that’s ok. yes i feel vulnerable.. and that’s ok

    yes i felt taken aback shocked and speechless in the moment.. and that’s ok (working on this one now)

    then magic happens

  107.  #107janjune on May 23, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    yes, the EA thing…
    i realized reading the comments and processing my own stuff today that i’ve been waiting to for Mr. Right to show up THEN i would become emotionally available. AFTER i know he’s Mr. Right… 🙂

  108.  #108Kimberly on May 23, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Thanks Daria. I needed the reminder to be gentle with myself 🙂

  109.  #109janjune on May 23, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    hi CLAUDIA,
    you addressed rori but just wanted to say that what rori teaches in her material is that if a man is doing to kinds of things you described in your comment, rori says to “lean back” which in this case would mean:
    don’t drive to get food
    don’t get out of the car to get the food
    don’t pay for the food
    don’t DO the things you would like for him to be DOing for you.

    it sounds like he was Doing those types of things at the beginning of your re-started relationship and he decided to quit and have you do then instead. so i think rori would tell you to stop doing them and just let him “row the boat”, “lean back” and see what he does.

    do you have her e-book?
    it gives the basics of what she teaches and yet covers ALOT of territory.
    it has alot of her Tools you can learn and start using immediately. like NOW 🙂

    hugs to you, janjune

  110.  #110janjune on May 23, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    …SO MUCH in this post… concepts coming together and forming. i feel open to them.

    -who really knows who we are? So the process of authenticity is a process of discovery, too…
    -your tyrant voices – and they are all so truly love-starved and frightened, they cannot be the voice of God.
    -If you rag on yourself – what’s out there will rag on you, too…
    that’s your choice!
    -***If you don’t like the way you feel, or the way you acted, or what you said, or what you thought…it will hold you back***
    -Free yourself up to take a new step in a different direction.
    -just love it as it is. Accept how it happened. It happened.
    -Don’t try to undo what’s been done – instead – focus on being AWARE of what happened, how you felt, what’s going on with you
    -and love the idea of undoing the pattern that makes things repeat themselves.
    -Be a detective of you.
    -Don’t judge yourself – you can’t learn if you judge.
    -Chemistry can be discovered later – after you’ve gotten through your own obstacles to intimacy
    -*****Opening up inside in someone’s presence.*****
    -chemistry. I’m just saying don’t make that primary, don’t choose because of it – either because there’s a lot of it or none of it at first.
    -Give a man a chance.

  111.  #111janjune on May 23, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    #96 this feels like synergy to me. 🙂

  112.  #112Brenda on May 23, 2011 at 10:11 pm


    Take it in baby steps. I have fears about dating and online dating, too. I just let myself go at my pace, not everyone else’s pace. Maybe you would feel good to start with some non-dating leaning back.

    For example, did you ever go rock-jumping through a creek? Once I did that, and the friends I was with took turns laying in the fast-running water. We positioned our heads next to a large rock, where the water shot over the rock, forming an arc of water over our heads, while we could more-or-less breathe under water!

    It was a cool experience! It felt like letting go control, breathing under water, feeling totally wet, vulnerable, and in a weird position laying down in the creek.

    I think of stuff like that when I am with a man, and it helps me lean back inwardly, if not outwardly. Tomorrow I am moving, and I was coaching myself tonight to lean back when my friends come to help me move. I tend to get tense, and then loud, and sometimes controlling, out of insecurity.

    I am going to practice leaning back and let people do things the way they do things, and to be relaxed and happy, not stressed out.

    Or you could practice leaning back at the store. For example, if you are in line at the register or at the deli or whatever, maybe just let someone ahead of you in line, just to feel the vibe of leaning back.

    I have felt like giving up on dating many times. But I believe that the risk of baring my heart and loving is worth it. I took a break for a while, but today I joined Christian Mingle. Do you want to take a break?

    Hope this helps.

  113.  #113janjune on May 23, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    sherri #98
    it sounds like he really cares about you.
    can you cd while you’re trying to decide what you want as far as your relationship with him?

  114.  #114kaitlyn on May 23, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    I haven’t heard from A in a few days.

    Since he asked me out for when he comes back to town, I replied ‘yes!’

    that’s all. one simple, open, welcoming word.

    then next day later on my wall, he wrote ‘happy birthday’ and i commented back ‘thank you, a!’

    it’s been 3 days since. nothing from him.

    what do i do? lean back and forget about him?

    why do guys do this?

  115.  #115kaitlyn on May 23, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    “in the bedroom is where I let my “boy” energy show. and my guy digs it. He initiates the actual wanting and starts it, but once we’re in the bedroom, I take over. it’s all about me there, and boomer, it’s a blast.

    I get that you’re good. revel in it. let him lead. if he’s worth spending time with, he’ll ask you how to please you… once he asks, you’re in the driver’s seat. so ENJOY!!!


    I CONCUR!!!! Exactly! I lean back for courting stage. But once it’s on, it’s on. And they love it.

  116.  #116Xti on May 23, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    I’m a long-time lurker/reader and this is my first comment. As I’ve read the comments over the past 8 months or so, I’ve known that eventually a post would prompt me to speak up.

    This was the one. 🙂

    The point that really motivated me to write was the very last one: Give a man a chance.

    My story is long and winding…to much detail to start out with I think. So I’m not sure where to jump in with the burr under my saddle tonight. But it’s been pestering my mind for awhile now, so I feel the need to reach out.

    The short version is that I’m going through a rough divorce with a raging custody fight. We’ve been separated for 7 months. I’ve been married several times to alcoholics….with all the associated abuse. (The lesson about repeating mistakes also hit home with me tonight.)

    I recently met a man while on vacation. I’ll put the background of how we met down below. We went to dinner a couple times and the day after I left, he booked a trip to my hometown to visit me 3 weeks later. At first I said he could stay in my guest room, but then realized it could hurt me in the custody situation. So he agreed to stay with my parents.

    On his trip, he was delightful. I could go on and on about how he treats me so well; Compliments, caring, respectful. He has already planned his next trip to come see me again in 2 months. He moved his vacation around and bought his plane tix. There has been no sex. Lots of hugs and kisses and making out, but clothing on.

    He texts me and calls me every day. He tells me he is in love with me and feels our meeting is fate. He knows I’m fighting for custody and has said that he would relocate to my town if it comes down to it. To me, this represents a commitment. We live thousands of miles apart and our climates are completely opposite.

    But here’s the problem. My man-picker has always been off, and my friends and family insist that I need their approval before I get into another serious relationship. My mother said he’s nice but also that he is bossy and aggressive. (She is also relatively bossy and aggressive, as my past husbands have pointed out.)

    It’s true, he’s sometimes tactless and seems gruff. On the other hand, he treats me beautifully, says he would do anything for me, is gentle as a lamb — in words and actions. He steps up and he rows the boat.

    Here’s my question:

    When it comes to giving a man a chance, and knowing that you feel like a goddess being worshiped in his presence, how much weight do you give critical feedback from family and friends?

    Here’s some background for reference:
    A month into my separation, I started an online profile as a means of healing my shattered self-esteem. A few weeks and hundreds of emails later, I gained confidence and started to accept coffee dates. Eventually I met a really sexy man – *spectacular chemistry* – and I chose to jump into bed with him. I’ll call him Mr. Scorpio.

    I’m a feminine woman by nature, though in my last marriage I completely over-functioned. (I completely realized this and now own my behavior thanks to Rori’s programs.) I’m also quite naturally submissive and tend to be attracted to dominant men. There’s a lot more I could say about why that attraction is there…ask me and I’m happy to share.

    Well, things were going hot and heavy with Mr. Scorpio…I even gave him a no gf speech early on and demanded sexual exclusivity. He wanted complete exclusivity and didn’t like that I was insisting on continuing to have coffee dates, but he was very happy with the sex. He was a little rough with me –a first from any lover of mine – which to my surprise I enjoyed…that is, until he slapped me in the face during sex.

    That freaked me out completely. My fascination with rough sex play was short-lived and over. I told him right away that was not okay with me and he thanked me for communicating. I went home earlier than planned, feeling calm and in control as I decided that I didn’t want to see him again. Coincidentally, less than a week later, my good friend contacted me to tell me Mr. Scorpio had emailed her from a dating site. She passed along his emails to me and I shared the info about his style in bed!

    I CD’d coffee dates, but nothing more. I had an extended work trip planned out of town and as part of the trip, I was supposed to spend a few days with another man, someone from my past who recently contacted me on Facebook. That is another long story. But suffice it to say that he met someone shortly before my trip and I didn’t go to see him.
    Instead, I treated myself to a relaxing weekend at a resort at the end of my business trip. I made reservations last minute and basically “holed up” for a few days, just pampering myself and focusing on my feelings and what I really wanted. I was not looking for anything or anyone.

    I was relaxing by the pool just texting my little heart out with some of my CDs back home when two men came strolling into the area. The first guy walked all the way around the pool and sat down in the chair next to me. He sat there for a few minutes, not talking, but I felt his attraction when I looked over. I was already practicing leaning back with another man in the pool, so I didn’t do more than glance at the new guy.

    I got up, left to get more water from my room, and then came back only to find the pool guy and the new guy were gone. But new guy’s companion was still there. He started talking to me, but my gut said he was married, even though there was no ring. After a minute or two, he also left.

    I suddenly had a premonition: He was going to go get new guy. Sure enough, not 3 minutes later, they both came back to the pool, and new guy came back and sat beside me. A conversation ensued, but it was mostly me and married guy doing the talking. I decided I was hungry so I got up to go and suddenly new guy invited me to join them for dinner. I said yes.

    What followed was pretty much incredible. I practiced every single thing I’ve learned and here’s what happened: New guy opened my doors, pulled out my chairs, paid for my dinner, invited me out the next day, took me to dinner again, texted me non-stop after I left the resort and then booked a flight to come see me in my hometown three weeks later.

    New guy was a perfect gentleman the entire time at the resort…no hanky-panky of any kind, just hugs and kisses goodnight. He became Mr. Gentle. When he came to visit me, he stayed at my parents’ house because of my custody fight. My mom’s suggestion…completely unexpected and out of character. And I really don’t have that kind of relationship with my folks where they would normally have a stranger I just met stay at their home.

  117.  #117Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Ok so just tried some brave text honesty with T-man.

    Now am feeling… Frustrated that he is not rushing over to me.

    He says he wants to be w me.

    He asks me to make up time tomorrow.

    And I know that he doesn’t like driving here at night… But Still!!! I want him to not care and drive here anyway!

    I feel frustrated that I am not having that effect on him.

    And I feel afraid tomorrow will fall thru due to my phone issues … And just because

    I’m judging him for not coming tonite.

    I love my judging.

    I feel scared.

    Scared I’m not gonna feel wanted and worshipped w any guy.

  118.  #118Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Am I wrong for not going all boy during sex?

    These women seem to be enjoying it.

    I used to enjoy my power to please a man.

    I got lots of men who wanted to please me.

    I forgot all that.

    I want to lean back. I don’t want to lean forward.

    Am I missing out?

    I don’t want to miss out.

    Am I holding back?


    Feeling confuseded.

    I know I want to experience making love leaned back and opening up.

  119.  #119Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Ok Daria so what would be the difference.

    The difference would be, me kissing him, climbing on top, kissing his ears and neck and chest, scratching him.

    That would be my boy energy.in my girl… I just expand . He kisses me, and I melt and soften.

    Je kisses my neck and I feel soft, I feel languorous and move slowly, I moan.

    My body arches and melts and I feel like a sexual being.

    I allow my sensations to move me like a dancer.

  120.  #120kaitlyn on May 23, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    “I allow my sensations to move me like a dancer.”

    beautiful prose.

  121.  #121Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    I feel resentful of Tman.

    I have decided he doesn’t treat me well enough. And that sux to think that.

    I feel mad I feel afraid, I feel a bit unsure.

    I want Rori to tell me : well he asked you out for tomorrow… Can you be ok with that?

    Or… Well you still feel frustrated and sad…

    Ok what about if both.

    Yup both.

    I feel resentful.

    And I feel like punishing him.

    I wish o did have plans tomorrow so I wasn’t waiting on him,

    But alas he is my go to back up plan lately,

    And how have I suddenly started bring interested in him now, ever since this morning.

    My fear of commitment has me falling for him now when it’s ‘safe’ when I’ve decided that he’s not doing enough of an effort for me.

    Though it seems mire than the effort of other men lately.

    I’m feeling needy I think.

  122.  #122Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Kaitlyn – hey thanks 🙂

    It feels like a flow of pressure and slow movement

    Maybe I will be using my boy energy to give back.

    I use the dance flow when I please my man too, I notice it seems to feel best to him – I get the most response – from massages or oral sex when I am feeling good and in the flow doing it… Ad if I’m doing it For myself, because it feels good
    to touch him,

    I don’t ‘push’ anymore

  123.  #123AmazingMe on May 23, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    I guess I am old school. A hopeless romantic and I swear I know my man is somewhere close by. I wasnt him to cherish me the way i cherish him realize we are two of the luckiest people in the world to have found one another! I want to do things and share things with my man, my best friend. I want him to look at me with the love in his eyes and know and feel I am his missing piece in his life and we compliment eachother. I want loving trust, a family, a bond so strong that noone can imagine having a strong love like ours…..Hey maybe dreams but dreams come true and I am workin hard in my life, just hope to be able to enjoy it :)… with my family and the on I can trust with my wellbeing in his best interest. I love who I am and where I am going, the success of coming this far

  124.  #124kaitlyn on May 23, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    ugh. i give up.

  125.  #125kaitlyn on May 23, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    i’m a cheating whor3 piece of cr*p who deserves what i get.

  126.  #126Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Gotta give it to myself.

    There are like 4 cute guys I’m DUI class and I’ve flirted w them. Yay 🙂

    He he I feel giggly thinking about it.

  127.  #127Daria on May 23, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Aww kaitlyn that sux. Freaking tyrant voices.

    I would tell it it’s not true and thank you for trying to protect me – while releasing all tension in my body.

    And kinda riff it out. Like writing I love the tension in my xxx (and then I imagine the tension as looking all magical like gold or jewels). And that feels like…

    Etc. Then when I’m yawning or guffawing I know energy is moving till I get to giggling

    Somehow this works and overtime it rewires my brain to stop running that thought.

    Rosas stop sign + then flip thought works for me too.

    Anything to shift that energy.

    Sometimes when I’m feeling down or caught in it I feel too weak and don’t want to do any energy shifting thinking it won’t work.

    But it does work – well riffing was the first and only thing that worked for me to make me feel better. I couldn’t believe it works.

    But now I can make other stuff work even EFT. It’s way
    faster bounce up time for me.

  128.  #128Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:05 am

    I’m feeling sooo good right now! I feel excited to think of the cute guys in DUI class. They are cute!

    Yum yum!

    And the one next to me laughed when I told a joke about my being a celebrity and looked at me. Hehe and I made eye contact.

    And the other one who is less my type but still cute I see him looking at me a lot.


  129.  #129Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:09 am

    There are men everywhere and they are noticing me!

    Even T-man wants to see me tomorrow. Yay.

    And my girl hooked me up w some guy who was texting earlier.

    Aaand. I can learn to plan fun activities for myself I really can.

    Daria loves Daria.

    Daria is not feeling particularly needy right now.

    I also shook it up by approving some online friends requests that I was holding back on.

    Just looking for more CD practice.

  130.  #130kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 12:10 am

    And I never went back to escorting. My vibe was up. Now it’s down again. Maybe A found this page and reads about what a nut job I am?

  131.  #131Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:10 am

    What was the message w T- man?

    How to communicate bravely my interest and needyness

    And take no for an answer

    And feel my ferlings and notice frustration

  132.  #132Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:13 am

    Kaitlyn – if he did find it I always just assume they’ll like me more. Like the more I can be vulnerable and raw the better.

    I tend to plateau at a certain level of authenticity then suddenly break through to another level.

    Which greatly enhances my attraction power,

    Like right now I’m breaking through to sharing ‘I feel needy, I feel horny, I feel lonely’. Stuff I hid before.

  133.  #133Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:16 am

    I think my pond is clearing! Hiphip hurrah!

    I can feel my energy shifting

  134.  #134Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Ohhh feeling icky about blurting out to second cute guy ‘do something about it’. When I was feeling frustrated hearing about the setup of the legal system.

    And feeling better now, just noticing me.


    I feel good to suddenly notice these guys that were not on my radar.

    There was also a man who messages me yesterday, tue guy who texts me good morning everyday,

    There’s lots of men out there besides Tman and getright!

    Balooning out

  135.  #135Daria on May 24, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Thank you Daria for brushing my hair.

    Thank you for vacuuming my room.

    Thank you for listening to teleseminars.

    Thank you for doing EFT.

    Thank you for telling the truth to Tman.

    Thank you for eating food.

    Thank you for taking hydrangea tincture.

    Thank you for wearing a pretty bra and shirt.

    Thank you for attending DUI class.

    Thank you for leaving early.

    Thank you for calling OG.

    Thank you for brushing my teeth.

    Thank you for giving me water.

  136.  #136Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 2:51 am


    RE: #116 – Welcome! In short, since I’m half awake, I will give you the same response I did to Misty in the last thread:




    That is one of my favorite acrostics. It will take time to see him in 100 situations and KNOW in your heart if he is a good guy. If it were me, I wouldn’t just take what friends and family say hook, line, and sinker…

    …but nor would I discount them. We all make mistakes, and there is safety in a multitude of counsel. There are people I wish I had listened to early on in my relationship with Ryan.

    Your safest bet is to let him prove himself over time.

  137.  #137Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 2:59 am


    Where’s the happy woman who turned 40 a few days ago and got a very NICE message from A? Are the Negative, Nasty Voices creeping in? Can you give them a cookie and sit them in the corner to shut them up?

    It’s only been a few days, even tho it feels like a few weeks. A is going to call you very soon, just be sure of that. And he’d like to get reacquainted with a beautiful woman who loves herself, not one who beats herself up and punishes herself.

    The mistakes we make are part of the baby steps. They don’t feel like progress, but they are the catalyst to progress.

    Sending out best wishes and prayers to you for the love of your life coming your way!

    Hugs, Brenda

  138.  #138Rosa on May 24, 2011 at 4:14 am

    I love the concept of CDing . I am thinking it through here ..

    I feel annoyed when I read objections that mean it may not be a good idea for women to step into their CHOICE and their POWER, and allow the man the SPACE to do the same.

    1. Initially to find a possible long term partner from a group of Maybes.Then..
    2. To allow space and time for both parties to decide what they want with each other.

    I read resistance here to CDing where the guy is exclusive and the woman is CD’ing. I feel angry because i make assumptions this resistance comes from an old model of dating where a woman WAITS for a man to decide what he wants,when WAITING is causing her pain and frustration which she stuffs till she blows .. and THIS leads to drama ,relationship stress and break ups.

    assuming these scenarios..

    1. He chose to be exclusive and she wasnt feeling that committed yet .. CDing allows space for her to decide what she wants. He gets to decide if he wants to wait around , or open up and date around..no brainer. He can wait for her in case she votes for him or he can CD, knowing she may lose interest in him..his choice. Women CD’s man gets to accept or decline.

    2. they agreed to be exclusive and then she wanted commitment but he couldnt decide what he wanted .
    This one causes problems for some Sirens and Sailors here..of COURSE she can decide whether to wait around in case he decides he wants her long term ,or to open up and CD as above..keeping her options open.This asumes the man is happy with the GF situation , just doesnt want commitment .

    IF the man wants to open up too and date other women , we have, by definition ,no longer got an exclusive arrangement but nor have we got an ongoing GF situation either. In other words ,he has to risk losing her all together and getting a new GF , or letting her CD while he takes time to sort out his feelings about what he wants . Its a great option for them both not to chuck all the good stuff, its a third way as Rori says. It gives them a NEW OPTION , the others being, to commit right now or to break up. It puts him in the waiting position.

    3.BOTH parties CDing could be an option, but it will regress the relationship to casual dating. She has the right to reject this, as does he.

    This is all about the woman CHOOSING NOT TO WAIT indefinitely for a guy who doesnt want the RELATIONSHIP she wants, ie she is choosing the chance of getting what she wants at risk of losing a good guy who just doesnt want what she wants.As I understand it EMK seems to think she should wait and patiently do nothing till he is ready. She is saying No to that . She is valuing a quality of relationship over a certain man. She wont do it lightly or thoughtlessly.

    He is choosing to allow her to keep some emotional options open and depressurise their situation if she CD’s and he is exclusive.He understands she has a high value and cant wait forever for the relationship she wants. He understands she is saying this,

    “I want YOU to be in COMMITTED relationship with me..BUT I understand you arent ready . I want the man who is EAGER to give me that relationship with him. I need to keep open and available for that man for the sake of my happiness. YOU are GREAT . But without commitment I do not have the relationship i choose.

    He can of course CD too , but that means they become casual again or break up and he loses her anyway. She has already understood that she is prepared to let THAT guy go! This is CHOICE, this is POWER over your own life and it just makes the choices equal for both parties.

    I feel surprised when sirens dont get this .

    I feel frustrated and aggravated when the old societal dating model keeps being touted as “normal” , ie the guy chases girl, girl chooses guy and “gets caught”.Becomes girlfriend. Guy wants benefits of GF but gets edgy and doesnt want to commit., girl waits and waits politely and hopefully …getting stressed and anxious and frustrated , blah blah ..

    I feel so happy Rori taught me to CD.

    3. neither were yet committed , just casual dating..

    Thats me right now . Two strong contender CD’s, one just asked me to go away with him for a weekend soon..hmm..we arent sexual as yet. Had dinner with the other one last night, his divorce is not final yet and i think of him as a friend but I note he seems to be stepping up. The concept of CDin g does away with the old GUILT about dating more than one guy , why not? Neither of them is offering me ANY COMMITMENT. It protects me from getting hooked and emotional over a guy who cant do what it takes.I am writing to other guys and meeting them for lunch here and there.

    I think I really get it now.

    Yaay me.

  139.  #139Rosa on May 24, 2011 at 4:24 am

    Hey Brenda , hope the move is going well.
    Sleep tight 🙂

  140.  #140Rosa on May 24, 2011 at 5:22 am

    Daria @119 ..it is confusing I agree, when to lean forward in sex.

    I have thought of it as a smorgasbord of positions , depending on the mood , the relationship and my vibe.

    I had an unforgettable evening with a powerful hot man 194 cm tall,..he was gorgeous , very smart and all heart.We were in an old and glamourous hotel, surrounded by paintings and sculpture and gilt and flowers.I felt like a true Siren..He felt so masculine to me , i leaned back , way back , wearing lace and sipping cocktails , then playing with the LOOOONG stemmed wine glass in the light of a ruby lamp over dinner ..and I just got so Siren babe, man magnet, hot we ended up eyes transfixed on each other taking the lift to my floor ..he opened the door walked me in and then did the sexiest thing a man ever did to me ..He ran his fingers lazily through my hair then lingered them twisted in the locks..with intent…then he leaned forward and teasingly tantalisingly slowly opened and closed the hairclip that was holding it back while watching my lips intently…that was Siren Heat ..lean back lady amazing ….goddess me. He gave me my Sirenity as a gift that is is.

    And he loved it too .

    As he walked down the road later to his hotel, he turned and came back and hugged me and spun me round and repeated this THREE TIMES in front of the liveried doorman.
    I felt so SPECIAL.
    Its is possible to have amazing feminine experiences.

    Then there was a regular BF who was kinda a big guy , he teased by hints and words and sexual talk and he knew it would always get me hot..It would get me making suggestions, springing surprises and definitely assuming dominant female positions and roles..leaning in with masc energy. I know what kaitlyn means ..its great FUN , and I have felt good “directing” in the bedroom at times. All depending on mood , energy and stamina!!! (and if other people can hear 🙂 )

    There was a huge variation in the rowboat at times in these scenarios, but myself I reckon it feels best when they lean forward and give and take from a leaned forward position..Ie they initiate mostly, they plan times and places and trips , they set the mood , food cooked , music (or waiters and orhestras is fine 🙂 )

    Meanwhile I also feel good returning that energy by leaning forward to share my excitment and passion in a way that sweeps him up. And if I am feeling very passionate he will be VERY surprised and grateful..

    I guess there is no solution. I think combing things well would be the ideal , say if the big wanted to be spanked or something,then talking about desires using the masc /fem, energy exchange is a lot easier to communicate and understand.

    I feel keen to try it SOON 🙂

  141.  #141Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 5:32 am

    #138 Rosa,

    “He can of course CD too , but that means they become casual again or break up and he loses her anyway. She has already understood that she is prepared to let THAT guy go! This is CHOICE, this is POWER over your own life and it just makes the choices equal for both parties.”

    Yep. That’s how I see it.

    The only quirk I see is if a woman has the expectation that a guy will remain exclusive to her if she chooses to CD. He may not.

    If she is prepared to let THAT guy go, then there isn’t a problem is there?

  142.  #142Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 5:51 am

    Also I don’t see sexual exclusivity as a commitment/non-commitment per say. In early days of dating it may simply mean choosing to focus on getting to know each other without the distraction of others. Not everyone needs “competition” to maintain a good vibe. To evaluate “stepping up”.

    And if someone has marriage as goal, wouldn’t that be discussed as the couple became closer? Around the time of acknowledging being boyfriend/girlfriend?

    It seems to me if a woman reaches the conclusion that she needs to break exclusivity in order to have the relationship she wants – there’s an underlying assumption that she has chosen a man who didn’t share her values regarding marriage. Wouldn’t it have been better not to agree to being “a girlfriend” in the first place if being a wife was the goal?

  143.  #143Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 6:02 am

    RE 114 Kaitlyn all he is doing is living his life. For me guys come across as needy when they are gushing all the time. It’s only been 3 days, maybe 4 now. But a week ago it was what a month, maybe 2? He needs time to be used to being back. Think about it as a holiday. If we had them all the time we would not enjoy them as much. There would be nothing to look forward to. The longer he waits the more the attractiong builds up. There will be no time to be bored or get used to conversation. The space could build curiosity and things to use to reconnect when it finally happens.

    RE 125 I acknowledge that is the one negative voice I have heard in a while and I honor you for taking care of yourself most of the times now. Can you help your mind use to acknowledge those thoughts as things that will push A away and that is not what you are working at. You have been doing very well recently and I can’t say it too many times, it is extremely glorious when guys come towards you on their own volition. Get a picture of that in your mind as in a fire cracker flying sky high exploding with joy and wonder.

  144.  #144Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 6:09 am

    Nice, Rosa and Lily T
    dialogue on CD 🙂

    So many nuances to the whole thing!!

    some thoughts I have…

    CDing as a lifestyle, where you open yourself up to every encounter with every man, woman, child, being that you have the opportunity to relate with is appealing and helps build confidence and social skills and practice receiving, leaning forward, leaning back.

    As it applies to dating men, I view CDing as a kind of map to the territory, a really helpful, useful, detailed map.

    But certainly not the territory itself.

    Sometimes I feel as if that’s how it is interpreted, that there is no other way for a woman to be firmly ensconced in her power and choice.

    When I feel that BIG mutual *CLICK*, that would be there regardless of whether I am CDing or not, things will pretty much take care of themselves.

    CDing, to me, seems to be one good way to maximize your investment of time and energy to allow the space for that *click* to show up.

    But when that click is there, everything goes out the window, rules, maps, everything! And that certainly does not rule out the option of CDing, if it seems to be the appropriate thing to do!



  145.  #145Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 6:24 am

    I can see alot of benefits from CD’ing too Elizabeth.
    I can see how it could raise self-esteem, a low vibe – reminds be of the old Billy Squier song…”Everybody Wants You” 🙂

    It also seems to be a good way to separate out the guys who are really into you, from those who are not. And those who are relationship oriented, from those who are more casually, FWB oriented.

    And I can see how helpful it could be for a woman who gets too attached, too easily, too soon. One who gets caught up in expectations, attachment to outcome, and future thinking with someone she has yet to know well. Dating more than one man at a time may slow that down.

    I’m not sure every woman needs to CD though. Some have figured out the above already through previous dating experiences. And while some on this blog enjoy dating multiple men, others seem to find it boring, tiresome. I guess I just don’t like absolutes. I think CD’ing can be great thing, but I see as a tool, not a rule. Shrug.

  146.  #146Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 6:28 am

    Xti that was an incredible story thanks for sharing. It seems your mom projects a bit so I would recommend forming your own frame for relationships. Your intuition seems to be working relatively well so I would trust it if I were you. You seem to be very aware but I would not rush into any relationships if I were wearing your shoes. I would take time to grieve the end of this relationship and to heal myself. What I have seen in friends life is that we tend to attract the same thing if we don’t heal. The guys coming towards you will be natural if you are in your feminine energy, that is a lot of power, nothing new. Also people take time to show their real selves, I would say average 6 months. At first many try to create a good impression to hook you which is good but we want to know that this is not just extra effort going into creating an impression. We want it to be the real McKoy. If he wants you and is serious he will stay. My focus would be on finalizing the divorce and cutting the emotional cords of the relationship so I can fully get my energy back. If you are gentle I am not sure what a harsh man could bring to the table for you and would be taking things slow if I was operating in that pattern. Remember the neurons in the pleasure centers of our brain have pain and pleasure lying right next to each other. There might be something in your past that has you hooked of harshness as something pleasing. People who have seen this played out in your life in the past will want to protect you from yourself but your feelings can lead you in the right direction if you value yourself.

  147.  #147Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 6:32 am

    RE 94 Luzydel welcome back. Seems like you are recycling exes. Have you met any new ones lately or have you been noticing the ones around you who are noticing you?

  148.  #148Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 6:33 am

    145 Lily T:
    “I guess I just don’t like absolutes. I think CD’ing can be great thing, but I see as a tool, not a rule. Shrug.”


    Yes, I agree, Lily, and I know that’s where you are coming from. The other points you made are excellent, too.

    I guess we just don’t need everybody to be on board with one way of doing things!


  149.  #149Kimberly on May 24, 2011 at 6:36 am

    Thank you so much for the idea of leaning back in non-dating situations. That sounds so much more comfortable to me right now. I don’t want to give up, but I’m just tired of feeling like I’m failing. In the past 2 years only 4 guys have asked me out. I so need to practice feeling comfortable leaning back and being open instead of feeling scared, defensive and closed off. I will try leaning back today 🙂 Hope your move is going smoothly!

  150.  #150Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 6:56 am


    I don’t want my posts about CD’ing construed as I am against it. I’m definetly not. And while I haven’t tried online dating – my impression is that everyone on dating sites is likely to be dating more than one person until they find the one they really CLICK with and stay with. At least for a time. So I would say dating more than one person at a time is becomming more and more “the norm” so to speak.

    Yet, I feel uncomfortable with this subtlety that anyone who prefers to date only one person at a time (because it works for them) is somehow “not doing it right”. lol.

    And there is also the reality that not everyone has 3 or more men clamoring to take her on dates. Whatchagonnado if there is only one man who is interested in you? Not date him? 😉

  151.  #151LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 7:06 am

    Duty Dating®

    ***The first feature-length motion picture based on Dr. Pat Allen’s concept of Duty Dating® as originally described in her best-selling relationship book, _Getting to “I Do”_ 

    SYNOPSIS: Actress Lauren Sinclair (from Face Off with John Travolta) stars as a modern young woman completely confused by a lifelong indoctrination in “women’s lib.”
    To help her see how things work in the real world, communication and intimacy guru Dr. Hartley (based on Dr. Pat Allen and her weekly seminars), advises Clarice to “duty date” three men at the same time as an exercise to build her relationship skills, explaining that dating one will get her prematurely attached while two still makes for an either/or situtation, and that only by concurrently dating three different men can she maintain an emotional perspective.
    Although our reluctant heroine must kiss many toads before finally finding her prince, Clarice manages to steer her way to the altar while learning that the road to love is a path with many unexpected twists and turns.***

    Trailer here:


  152.  #152Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 7:10 am

    Lily T I believe the norm has changed back and forth over time and what I understand from my mother’s time is that dating more than one was the norm back then.

  153.  #153Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 7:12 am

    If you only have one of course date him is what I believe. Just with the consciousness that one could get hooked or settle for someone without knowing what else is possible for me or if he can do the job of building for me the relationship I want.

  154.  #154LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Duty Dating

    The movie has been divided in 10 clips so it could be uploaded on Youtube.
    I am watching the clip 1, and I am already laughing.
    Sounds familiar already ha ha ha


  155.  #155Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 7:27 am

    138: Rosa

    I’ll say it again, girl: “You can write!”

    I hope anyone who is till waffling about CDing in teh context of what was an exclusive realtionship that does not progress now unerstands.

    Youa re so thoughtful and eloquent and clear.

    Yay you!

  156.  #156Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 7:31 am

    #152 FW

    Yes, dating more than one person at a time WAS the norm, going wayy back. It seemed to fall out of fashion in the 1970’s and re-emerged with the popularity of online dating.


    I think the key is in actually knowing what kind of relationship one wants, instead of just ‘falling’ into a relationship with someone who happens to show interest. In that case, CD’ing could be useful because the person sees “options” rather than settling for the only guy around just to have a man.

    But you know, how happy a woman is in a relationship is also dependent upon how happy she is with herself. (Something else Rori teaches). When a woman is happy with herself, her own life, then a man becomes an enhancement – not a goal to be accomplished. And a happy woman is less likely to get hooked, or settle for someone who doesn’t quite fit with the relationship she wants.

    How many times have you seen a woman get a guy, then spend years of frustration trying to ‘change’ him into the partner she wants to have? The old trying to pound a square peg into a round hole thing. “I will make this work damm*t!” Better to be clear on what kind of relationship one truly wants and then evaluate whether, or not the man who comes along fits in with it. And one can evaluate that with one man at a time as well as several at a time.

  157.  #157Mel on May 24, 2011 at 7:36 am

    When you express yourself with a feeling message, is it typical for your guy to not respond at all? I mean just silence?

    I said something happy. Something that I liked and appreciated.

    This feels empty. This feels cold. Maybe I’m just afraid that he doesn’t want to hear the good stuff because he doesn’t feel the same way. Maybe this is just me wishing I had control of the outcome.

  158.  #158Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 7:37 am

    Why can I not type today? Why am I not seeing my typos?

    I love and forgive my fat fngers 🙂

  159.  #159tinque on May 24, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Yes it’s normal Mel. And I would ask you why you are looking for validation for your feeling message. Can you feel complete in yourself as you express yourself. This is for you, not for him. If he’s wanting to come along for the ride, fabulous, but if he’s not, you’re still whole and full all by yourself.

    And another thing, you feeling good and keeping your spirits up will more likely inspire him rather than pull him down or having him turn to resentment because you feel good, and he doesn’t.


  160.  #160Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 7:51 am

    I tapped on someting yesterday that had me feeling minor shame and embarrassment. I’ll relate it here as a test to see if I am truly over it:

    Basically, and this is actually kind of funny…I went to see my teen son’s screamo metal band play, but I had plans to go out with friends to a club after. I was dressed attractively…even a bit sexy…with metallic-heeled pumps and a low-cut blouse (although I wore a tank top under it for my son’s gig so as not to be inapporpriate). If you have ever seen how “scene” kids dress, it’s just a step above goth with a nod toward punk (peircings, black hair, tight–really tight–jeans). They are not necesarily into hygiene either. So a made-up looking adult woman is pretty out of place! All the other parents were dressed like they’d jsut come from gardening or something!

    Well, a friend of my son said, “Tell your mom next time that she’s not gonna get picked up at one your gigs. What was she wearing??” My son was embarrassed, and then I felt shame for not looking the part of “the mom” and for possibly embarassing my son. And then thinking, “What was I thnking to dress like this?” My daughter thought it was great–she’s thrilled that I am not a typical soccer mom in “mom jeans” and that I have actually gotten better looking and hotter as I’ve aged!

    But I felt really uncomfortable and embarrassed…so upon tapping yesterday, immediately…those feelings went “poof” (I wonder if they are hanging out in the ether with BigBandleader, Mr. Ohio, and AlphaMale???).

    The cool thing is, I have not thought about the issue or felt those feelings in relation to it at all. Until now, that is, that I have talked about it here! I may have to tap again!!!

    My thoughts are this: EFT is some cool stuff. I really want to learn more about it. I’ve perused some of the sites, but it’s all kind of random and I find I’m hopping around YouTube videos with no particular order or structure.

    Does anyone know of a good book or in-one-place resource for understanding the concepts behind EFT and a sytematic way to practice? (Yes, I prefer formal education to experimentation!)

    Thanks for letting me continue to thin about all this. I think I struggle more with raising my kids alone than I do about dating sometimes….balancing my needs and who I am now with their needs and my role as “Mom.”

  161.  #161Emerson on May 24, 2011 at 7:53 am

    I feel that I need to read this article over and over and own it.

    I feel overwhelmed by the thought that I am 39 and still want children and a husband. I feel rushed and pressed for time to meet a man NOW so we can get to know each other and then get married and have babies.

    I feel sad and disappointed with myself that my relationships in my 30s didn’t work out. I had 3 relationships. Now I’m by myself and not a lot of promising prospects around. I have been CDing, but it’s dried up a bit. Need to get more CDs going but I feel discouraged about it.

    I want to create memories with somebody and feel secure and loved and BREATHE….I feel tight and tense and like I cannot breathe freely….I feel uncomfortable.

  162.  #162Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 7:56 am

    Emerson…big hugs to you.

    I admit, I do not know the pressure of wanting children. I had lots of them early and in rapid succession! But I feel for you and wish you all that you desire.



  163.  #163Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 7:58 am

    Mel/Tinque I am not sure I would say it is typical because guys are different. I have had some come closer physically, some laugh while there were others would be physically scooting down the hallway at the first sound of anything “feel”. I don’t know if it is the tone of voice or kind of energy behind the words but I tend to get different kinds of responses. I pay attention to the response and adjust the way I say it next time but I stay committed to saying it to express myself.

    I am reacting I think to the “yes it is normal” for the guy not to respond to feeling messages, maybe not understanding what is meant by what normal means here.

  164.  #164Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 8:02 am

    I know the pressure of wanting kids. My first born came when I was 35 and looking back it feels I had to do it to keep my sanity. I also feel like I was fooled by the voices in my head. I tell friends now I don’t know what the he*** I was thinking. I love my children but life is so changed with them and frankly there was no need for urgency. Looking back it feels like a level of irrationality.

  165.  #165Emerson on May 24, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Thanks Boomer.

  166.  #166tinque on May 24, 2011 at 8:04 am

    that was really my point FW, so thank you for elaborating. there isn’t a normal. this is apparently normal for Mel’s guy right now. in my experience, the responses can be as you say all over the place depending on the man and the situation and where his head an heart are in that given moment.


  167.  #167Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 8:05 am

    RE 160 Boomer I believe the interview with Susan Quinn that Rori sent out last time did a great job carrying out a therapy session and explaining how it works.

  168.  #168Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 8:06 am

    RE 166 I meant to add that my take on it was that your response was in reference to the context.

  169.  #169Mel on May 24, 2011 at 8:07 am

    This is something I said to him in an email. It was basically saying how I was feeling excited about something we’re planning to do and feel happy to spend time with him.

    There would be no tone or body language with this, so that doesn’t apply here.

    I suppose I’m just feeling vulnerable because I don’t know how he will take it. Either he’s feeling happy about doing this and spending time with me too (which I would LOVE to hear!) or this makes him feel uncomfortable because he doesn’t feel the same way (and thus the silence).

    It’s the vulnerability that I’m feeling right now. Yes, that’s it. I have no control of the outcome.

  170.  #170Jean on May 24, 2011 at 8:07 am

    Brenda 112, thanks brenda, just read your comments on moving, boy, I can relate! I am in the process of moving and I have moved 7 times in the last 6 years. this is, by far, the easiest move…one apt door over,LOL..but I am stressed. not having professionals do the move this time. the current man-in-my-life…but not going as planned already! NEED ADVICE, please, ladies! he told me yesterday that during the day he would start the move. I came home…he was not there, nothing was moved. I started moving stuff…got most of one (bedroom) done. he called about 45 minutes later and was surprised/shocked when I told him what I was doing. I didn’t accuse or ask, was laying on the floor when he called, leaning back, soft, warm smiling. made no demands or excuses for or of him. just commented on how tired I was, how exhausted I felt from moving, how good it felt to get it started, how excited I felt to think it will be done soon. later he made the comment he planned to get started but got interrupted. I did not comment or ask about that. then later still he mentioned that he had”mowed the lawn”, so I knew that meant he went to his ex=wifes house and mowed the lawn. I didn’t make any feeling messages lasts nite, I was simply too exhausted, too stressed and too let down to even feel or say my feelings.

  171.  #171Emerson on May 24, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Thanks FW. I have days where I feel that urgency and hear the voices you mentioned. Other days, I feel at peace about it and feel like it’s going to happen and work out.

    Ladies I’m also trying to be more open to dating a man who has children already. After I got hurt in the past with this situation (relationship ends and all that time and love you gave to the kids goes POOF, so sad)…I’ve been hesitant and had a new rule of NO KIDS….but there is someone who has been pursuing me off and on that has kids and is divorced, and I’m thinking about giving him a chance. Your thoughts?

  172.  #172Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 8:11 am


    RE: #139 – Thank you! My back hurts, and I have too much to do today before people come to help me. But I am just doing what I can and trusting that it will all get done. I am very excited to be out of here.

    What re-energizes me is that yesterday I got a job call out of the blue for a job that is closer to my new destination than where I currently live. It’s not a done deal, but I sent my resume.

  173.  #173Emerson on May 24, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Boomer, teenagers talk all kinds of crap all the time, as I’m sure you know. I understand you feeling embarrassed, but I’m impressed that you went there dressed up and looking gorgeous…you were just being you! I hope I’m that kind of Mom one day. 😉
    Interesting about the tapping. I remember a therapist I was seeing in my early 30s was trying that on me and I was like..what the heck is she doing??? I didn’t understand or subscribe to it, and I don’t know if it really worked…but I may try it now.

  174.  #174Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 8:18 am


    RE: #149 – I’m glad that helped. Do you have “Modern Siren”? That’s the one that helped me most to change my vibe and feel confident and feminine.

  175.  #175Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Emerson, ya know, I don’t really know the science behind the tapping–they say there is some science–“merdiaans” and all that. (Sounds suspiciously like the “mitichlorians” that George Lucas used to lamely explain scientifically what “The Force” actually is).

    Anyway, whether there is science or not, I guess I *believe* that it will reduce my negative feelings, and therefore it does!

    I am happy to go with that for now….in fact, understanding it any more than that might pop the magic bubble for me, and make it not work as well any longer.

    Sometimes, I have to just let my feminine gut/faith/intuition/heart take prcedence over my logical boy brain.

    Emerson, did you notice a change when your therapist was doing it? Or were you just like, “What the heck???”

  176.  #176Lily T. on May 24, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Hi Emerson.

    My thought would be to date this guy for a few months before getting to know his kids. Not like you are a secret or anything, more like “Dad has a social life, that doesn’t include us.” For now.

    What do you think?

  177.  #177gina on May 24, 2011 at 8:22 am

    I noticed my mom majorly overfunctioning. And I realize I majorly overfunction, too. Mostly with girlfriends. ugh, i feel like it’s going to be so weird to discover who I’d be without all that over doing….

  178.  #178Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 8:25 am


    RE: #170 – I hate moving! I guess it depends on the dynamics of your relationship. If you are really close and committed, I would use feeling messages to say, “I feel bad that the moving wasn’t already started.” I don’t know.

  179.  #179Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 8:28 am


    RE: #171 – Each person has their preferences around children in the relationship, so I can just speak for myself. I don’t have children, and it is easier to date someone who doesn’t. It’s far less complicated. However, I don’t even let that be a consideration. I am just focused on the spirit, mind, and heart of the man I am dating.

    There’s any number of things that can complicate a relationship. It’s a matter of working through things together, whatever arises.

  180.  #180Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Gina, I’ll tell you what it’s gonna feel like…or at least what it felt like for me:


    It was so amazing coming to Roriland and realizing that I did not have to take care of everybody else all the time. That, in fact, my doing so was getting in the way of my relationships being good and healthy and that I was actually turning people off much of the time by being so “together” and such a smarty pants.

    My best freiend is a handful…I mean a HANDFUL! She is DRAMA personified. And when I started backing off and stopped solving her (many) problems, she came into her own a little more and made better decisions. Our friendship has changed, fr sure, whichis scary, but she no longer needs me so desperately, and I am no longer exhausted by her…so we have more time for the fun aspects of the friendship to develop.

    Allow it to happen for you…maybe choose one friend who is particularly draining and for who you feel particularly responsible and start making little changes:

    – Just listen when she talks/gripes/asks for help.
    – Ask her what she thinks before you tell her what you think.
    – Say no when you rally feel you need to

    See how it feels and note that for yourself.

    Good luck…I think you’ll feel very soon how much better you start to feel.

  181.  #181Brenda on May 24, 2011 at 8:31 am


    There’s a book called, “Tapping”. It is pretty fascinating.

    I better get busy moving. Just had to wake up (again) and get loosened up a little.

  182.  #182Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Emerson, my intial thought is to not limit your pool of men with firm rules like “no kids.” It’s just a first date to start, right? So what’s the harm in meeting someone with kids?

    As a mother of four, I thought early on when I started dating that it would be an issue. It almost never comes up within the first date or two–the man and I are focused on each other. Only one man in five years has said he does not want to pursue something with a woman with so many kids. Two men said they did not want to compete with my kid time after we began dating, but they were wrong for me in other ways too. Mostly though, it’s jsut not an issue early on.

    I say don’t limit your pool…a man with kids will get that you are family-oriented and I bet that you might like his caregiving vibe too.

  183.  #183Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Brenda, thanks!!

  184.  #184JennS on May 24, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Thank you for your response..
    I guess the answer to your question.. “why do you feel you need to say something”.. is that aren’t we in the game of speaking feeling messages.. and if I am feeling it at the time.. wouldn’t it be best to be authentic rather than pretend I am not feeling something..
    I could say.. I feel uncomfortable because I want to say something but don’t want to intrude on your boundaries..”.. but that sounds so.. blah blah blah..

    So.. I am not sure.. I just know how I feel at this moment.. and I did not see him last night.. which was a good thing.. actually I feel good that I did not see him as I was a bit calmer. But again.. arean’t we supposed to speak feeling messages.. or is it that we are but not all the messages we are feeling??

  185.  #185Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 9:36 am

    RE 182 Emerson I am on board with Boomer’s suggestion. Plus the children can give clues about a parents lifestyle’s. I had an experience once where the child, a girl, did not focus on me but looked at the dad with such disgust it confirmed my gut feeling that he must have been bringing in a sea of women for just sex. His very presence felt slimy.

    There is another situation where I felt frustration from a child and I got the sense that his business was more important than his relationships and he lacked in the quality time department. His other child seemed to show some level of disrespect and I suspect it was because of women as it related to his mother. Looking at the kids kind of confirmed what I was feeling in my gut.

  186.  #186Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Also Emerson on the positive side a man with kids is showing that he is capable of commitment and taking care of other human beings needs if he is actively involved in their lives. I had a guy who put his life/happiness on hold for his kids welfare. He told me a story about another woman he was with who asked him “so what will happen with the outside kids”. It translated in his mind, as he told me, that she saw his kids as an intrusion into their life together. His words were so you know “I was out the door” on that one, “those are no outside kids, those are my kids”. My point here to you is to be careful to embrace the kids as your own in your mind should one show up with kids. I would also encourage you to be open to a guy with kids. They can help shape an adult into a caring person.

  187.  #187Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 9:57 am

    RE 169 Mel I take it that he has not responded to your email why you asked the question. It could also be that he is busy and might not have read it yet. Or he could have read it but not sure how to respond so he is letting it perculate in his head before he does. I am not sure though that it is a good idea to send him an email while he is at work. I feel my time is intruded upon when my parents call in the middle of the day asking personal stuff. Plus you definitely won’t feel good if you don’t get a response. In your shoes I would be careful about timinig these things. It might be part of the dance for you both with him showing you how to be with him. I don’t know, just some thoughts that came to me.

  188.  #188Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Mel there is a guy at work who told me the other day his wife texted him about something. He recognized that it was her but he didn;t respond because he was focussed somewhere else. I have read that guys can only focus on one thing at a time.

    There is another one whose wife was in another country while he was here. She called while we were in a conversation about work. She tended to call everyday at a certain time and he told me he does not ignore her. His pattern had always been to interrupt our meetings to take her call. That day he said “f***” her and I was shocked because it was out of character for him. My whole feeling from him about her is that he is in love with her and his whole world revolves around her. He was constantly talking about her. My take was that he did not want to be distracted at that moment and that he would make it up to her later. I guess there are times that they just decide to do what they want to do regardless.

  189.  #189Mel on May 24, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Thanks FW for the thoughts.

    I only sent him this message as a reply to something he sent to me (he was telling me that our plan was a “go” for such and such a day). I don’t think I would have otherwise. I think he’s read it because he has sent me another quick unrelated email since then.

    I have a hard time knowing when to share my feelings with him. Getting no response feels horrible. I feel like I don’t know how to “be” with him any more. It seems he’s changed so much! It feels discouraging because being vulnerable and authentic is really hard for me, so not having any sort of acknowledgement of him even hearing me, is difficult!

  190.  #190Mel on May 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Thanks for the different perspective!

    Or… maybe he just felt it didn’t require a response? He read it, smiled, and moved on. That would feel better.

  191.  #191SummerBaby on May 24, 2011 at 10:16 am


    I came across EFT several years ago. From what I understand it is a form of acupressure (similar to acupuncture without needles). It has been used to successfully treat veterans suffering from PTSD from being in active duty in war zones where nothing else had worked before.

    I’m a bit of a research junkie (okay, I admit I am a nerd) so I’ve looked into it quite a bit. EFT stands for Emotional Freedom Technique and was invented by Gary Craig. You can see the remnants of his site at http://www.emofree.com/ . I have all of his recordings, and when I’m in a bad spot, I use them.
    He used to offer certification, but I’m not sure that he still does.

    There are many variations of it out there now, and a ton of different modalities for dealing with releasing or letting go. There’s H’oponopono, there’s TFT, there’s the Sedona Method, and NLP just to name a few. I’ve tried many of them and depending on my state of mind will use whichever one seems to be the easiest to get myself to actually do when I feel the need.

    In the original version of EFT, you were to assign a number from 1 – 10 to how you felt about the issue you were tapping on before beginning. When you’d finished a round of tapping you reassessed the number. The goal was to go from a 10 intensity to a 1 or 0.

    Gary Craig was/is an NLP practicioner as well. It’s funny that a number of the modalities NLP, and Sedona Method, have had rifts in the organizations that were the original proponents of them and depending on who you study from will get slight variations in the training.

    Okay, now I’m rambling. Hope this provides you with enough info to get started satisfying your scientific side. Most of these techniques seem pretty airy fairy at times and quite possibly could work just because of a placebo effect. I do think that since we all are energy anyway that rerouting our energy systems could do well for us.

    Okay, now my inner nerd is seriously awake, so I’ve got to go find something else to research to satisfy it!


  192.  #192SummerBaby on May 24, 2011 at 10:27 am


    Would you feel different if you just believed that he loves you and cares for you?

    I’m not asking you to pretend, but if you operated from the belief that you ARE, in fact, loved and cared for, then perhaps your vibe would change enough where it isn’t dependent on him to effect your moods.

    Choose to create your own happiness. Sink into your feelings. Wondering how he’s thinking and feeling is just making you feel bad. Shift back to you. If you can feel complete regardless of what he says or does not say, you will take any pressure off of him to be whatever it is he perceives you need. If there’s no pressure, perhaps he’ll find his way back to giving you all you desire, without your needing any of it.

    It’s a strange paradox, but it seems the more we want something, the more we observe that we don’t have it. When we release the attachment to the desire, it seems to be ours, even though we no longer really need it.


  193.  #193Mel on May 24, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Thanks summerbaby! 🙂

  194.  #194Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Summerbaby, thank you!! I think I stumbled upon Gary Craig. His is interesting stuff, but lots of random videos. If I believe that Reiki shrank my kidney stone, I guess I can believe in a theory about pressure points and redirecting energy flow.

    All I know if that I felt I released that shame and embarrassment from about a 7 down to a 0. Right now, having talked about it, I am hovering at about a 1. The very interesting thing about this episode to me was how much I NOTICED the negative feelings in the first place because, on the whole, I just don’t feel bad about myself or the stuff I do anymore. All the Rori talk about “feeling your feelings” has been difficult for me, because in the last year with all my life improvements, I hardly ever feel negative feelings very deeply anymore. That is a good thing, I know! Even with the men who poof or the slight disappointments with work, I have adopted and embraced an “I can’t control it and so I’m gonna do my thing” attitude which has helped me tremendously. I still falter–and you Sirens see the results of my stumbles here, like when I obsess about a guy poofing or about him not calling, but on the whole…I am whole for the first time in my adult life. I like it!

    But for the little things…I’ll look into EFT much more. My daughter may find it interesting too as she starts a new chapter with dating and college and stuff. I’m glad there are fellow nerds/science/logical types on here 🙂

    And FW, I do not get Rori’s interview series (I’m cheap), but I’ll continue to do my research. Thanks for the suggestion! Do you find the interview series helpfula nd worth it on teh whole? I kinda can’t rationalize $20/mo. I’d rather put that toward Modern Siren or something…

  195.  #195Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Still loving and forgiving my fat fingers, my too-long nails (wich are FABULOUS by the way), and my typos.

  196.  #196Lercomari on May 24, 2011 at 10:57 am

    I feel so triggered right now…someone who I was very in love with posted on our mutual friend’s facebook wall. I haven’t heard anything of him in months and suddenly it was like he was right there. It was like someone ripping a scab off of a scar. I impulsively opened a message window and fired off a message asking how he has been doing. He hasn’t written back…I don’t think he will. Our relationship was complicated, I don’t blame him if he would rather not remember it. But God…I feel so upset right now. Suddenly all the pain of our separation is coming flooding back. Wow, I feel so hurt all over again!

  197.  #197Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:00 am

    RE 190 Yes Mel that would feel better. Also 192 from Summerbaby is great advice. Even if we don’t get what we need to feel loved doesn’t change the dynamic inside the other person’s mind or heart. As someone said there are really only two things: Fear and Love. If we step aside and let people be who they are or choose to be in any given moment we can be accepting. That for me feels so freeing but I am not wearing your moccasins Mel so I understand where you are coming from. Just know that in the bigger scheme of things you are loved by the Universe and you have a right to be here so just know all is well.

  198.  #198Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:02 am

    RE 196 Can you identify what exactly happened that caused the hurt?

  199.  #199Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Lercomari notice yourself here

    “It was like someone ripping a scab off of a scar.” I would change this into a feeling statement, turn my attention into my body and notice where the feeling is trapped inside my body. I would also try some EFT tapping on the feeling.

    “I impulsively opened a message window and fired off a message asking how he has been doing.” Maybe your stress response is fight. This seems reactive as if you are still driven by impulses or your emotions rather than noticing them and making sure of what you are feeling before acting. Could it also indicate that you bring drama to the table or hook into other people’s drama?

  200.  #200Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:19 am

    I like the interviews. The thing for me is that it brings new things to the table and different perspectives. Each coach has their own style and might help me understand the same concept put a different way. Each month I find I learn something new from each of them.

    For instance Elizabeth refers to CCarter as using the armchair psychology because he seems to suggest that men have no responsibility in relationships. For me it is him talking to women so he addresses women and I assume he would say the same thing to men. His concepts for me are basically the same as Rori just expressed from a different angle. I find it is the angle of each coach that appeals to me. Every month so far I find value in what I receive. I read the article on the blog about tapping but hearing them work through the session made it very clear and gave me a tool to use. I am amazed at how calm my vibe is and how relaxed I am since doing it. I just finished having lunch with a guy that just a few minutes ago spoke to me in what I sensed as a condescending manner that had me fighting mad. He started a conversation about the microwave and then I noticed he seemed to be extending the conversation. Rather than cutting it should as I normally do in such situations I stayed opened and the next thing I know he got another guy to pull up a chair for me to sit with him, talk and have lunch. I feel really proud of myself as a result. I am saying that to let you know it was the CD that I learnt about tapping and listening to them over and over again helps me to incorporate concepts into every day life easily. I drive at least 1 hour every day to drop the kids to school and to get to work.

  201.  #201Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 11:19 am

    FW…oh my! In tour response to lercomari:

    “Could it also indicate that you bring drama to the table or ******hook into other people’s drama?****”

    I am a vicarious drama addict. I don’t generally generate my own (I am too “logical and controlled”), but I realize now that I seek it out in others and get my fix through them. It’s somehow safer than generating my own, but only slightly. And somewhat passive-aggressive: I can say, “Who? Me? I certainly don’t generate drama!” All the while getting my fix second-hand. The effect is similar to full-on drama: exhaustion, energy drain, a sense of failure when it does not go well, even withdrawal when life is “boring.”

    Hmmmmm….thanks for spelling that out right there. Wow.

  202.  #202Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:20 am

    By the way Boomer since you have been here I had gotten the impression that you treat yourself well. I don’t believe you are cheap, it just seems like a decision you have made to me.

  203.  #203Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Thank you Daria for doing EFT for me.

    Thank you for giving me water to drink.

    Thank you for brushing my teeth.

  204.  #204Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:39 am

    RE 201 Her comment triggered a memory from the previous Interview that Rori sent last month. The coach mentioned that Rori suggested that if we just drop the drama the guy will have no option but to drop it also because we are no longer getting hooked into it. It seems also that some guys are conditioned that way because of their mother’s volatility and they cannot connect with women who are reasonable. They get so hooked to it that they look for women who are drama queens and get hooked to that woman even though it might be hurting them. I sense some of the feeling messages as communicating with that in mind or from that place to see who we get to step up to us and be a right fit for us or reflect back to us how we are being and what might need to be healed.

  205.  #205Lercomari on May 24, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Very good blog post. I like this part: “Just because it happened to you, just because you “did” that – no matter how many times – doesn’t mean it has to happen or you have to do that again. You get a fresh start every moment.” I put it as my facebook status and it seems my friends like it too.

  206.  #206Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 11:45 am

    RE 204 “The coach mentioned that Rori suggested that if we just drop the drama the guy will have no option but to drop it also because we are no longer getting hooked into it”.

    “The coach, I believe Russel Feingold, suggested that some guys bring drama and Rori suggested that if we just drop the drama rather than engaging in it with him they guy will have no option but to drop it also because we are no longer getting hooked into it. At least that is how I understood it.” Had to correct the typo.

  207.  #207Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:47 am

    I notice when I feel upset it seems like my pelvis and pussy often stays relaxed

    but my throat and tongue especially get tight

    also my forehead

    and my thighs

  208.  #208Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:51 am

    wow i expanded my tongue sideways and got my energy shifting signal

    a powerful gigglee, guffaw that happens to me sometimes

    i feel embarassed about it if i think about it happening in public

  209.  #209janjune on May 24, 2011 at 11:58 am

    i felt sad reading that he told you he mowed the lawn for his exwife rather than starting to move you into your new place as he’d said he would. and then it felt worse to read that he then didn’t offer to come over right then and help or offer to come over later. and then it felt bad to read that he didn’t apologize for the delay or the mix up or the miscommunication– or give you some kind of reassurance that he had not meant for that to happen. and then want to make it up to you with a back rub and bringing dinner over or something like that.

    i felt very impressed and awed at the way you handled it. you just stayed right in your “girl”. no questions. no requests for an explanation.
    i feel YAY JEAN!
    i think you are so, so far down the road on being in your girl!
    you really can find someone who treats you in a way that feels good to you. i am feeling very impressed by the way you handled it…

    it sounds like if you just “drop him” from your thoughts and your plans for the future you will see him either step up Big Time, realizing what a wonderful person you are
    you will see that he is incapable of stepping up
    …and that has nothing at all to do with you.

  210.  #210Lercomari on May 24, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    @femininewoman 199,
    Seeing his name and picture caught me off guard and I reacted impulsively. My feeling message is that I feel upheaved. I feel shaken up and I feel hurt again. When I saw his picture I felt anxiety and panic. Like “I need to get his attention before he logs off.” As if the only reason he hasn’t been contacting me is becuase he didn’t know where to find me. I don’t get hooked into other’s drama…I have an aversion to gossip and reality shows. Generally I avoid other people’s drama. I am starting to think that I can be dramatic when it comes to love relationships though because I am just accustomed to drama. I don’t want to be someone who creates drama just because there is none. I will have to look up EFT. Thanks again FW.

  211.  #211Boomer on May 24, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    lercomari. I’m wanting to ask you to allow yourself this little hiccup. You reacted with feeling and with an impulse. It’s OK. Even if he does not respond, you went with what you were feeling.

    It can be jarring when a past love resurfaces, though, yes. Try the tapping. I started with this introduction video online with a cute little English fellow, and it really helped me release something that was making me feel choked up and anxious almost immediately:


    Try it maybe and let us know???

  212.  #212Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Lercomari Like “I need to get his attention before he logs off.” This reminds me of the child in someone who chases after the man because her father ignored her in life “dammit I will get your attention even if I have to run after you”. It was in another Siren’s comments that I read this. As a result of past experience we chase after unavailable men.

  213.  #213LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Why Good Women Stay With Bad Men

    By Pat Allen, PhD

    “She is such a smart, attractive woman. Why is she putting up with HIM?”

    How often have we heard this at home or at the office?

    I am going to answer the question with my professional counseling opinion based on 35 years experience dealing with women and men in relationships

    This article is divided into four areas, following Jungian archetypal divisions:

    Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    The Playgirl aspect in every woman’s psyche — in every culture — seeks physical pleasure through all her five senses. Nature supports her mating well, especially through the sense of smell, her pheromones. Dr. Theresa L. Crenshaw, a pioneer in sexual medicine, in her 1996 book, The Alchemy of Love and Lust, writes about the “bonding” influence of the peptide oxytocin.

    Oxytocin is secreted from the pituitary gland’s posterior lobe from which it goes to receptor sites in the brain and throughout the reproductive tract, especially where estrogen resides. Dr. Crenshaw’s work is based on a Niles Newton 1978 article, “The Role of the Oxytocin Reflexes in Three Interpersonal Reproductive Acts: Coitus, Birth and Breast Feeding.” Oxytocin increases sensitivity to touch, especially sexual touching, particularly at the time of orgasm. Alcohol lowers oxytocin.

    How does this oxytocin effect impact a woman’s relationship to men? When she first meets a potential mate, she is either:

    Open to investigate, or
    Highly attracted

    If she is disinterested, it may be because of an intellectual decision that the man is not eligible due to unacceptable looks, social skills, or poor financial prospects. These factors can all be overridden by continued dating exposure if the pheromones (chemistry) are basically positive. Her brain may disqualify him, while her body says “yes.” I advise women to date each decent man at lease three times before discarding him as a suitor. If he passes this “brain barrier” and she determines he is eligible to investigate — and the chemistry is reciprocal — then normal dating occurs.

    The “highly attracted” category is the most addictive-prone area and the one that I wish to address. When a woman is in the presence of an oxytocin-stimulating man, she may override her intellectual judgment about their “compatibility,” especially when she attempts to diminish oxytocin’s impact with alcohol.

    Where formerly she might be sexually conservative, requiring a serious commitment, she now finds herself deeply involved sexually before negotiating boundaries, such as his (or her) current marital status, criminal background, and financial accountability.

    The problem with oxytocin-based addictive bonding to an inappropriate man is that the intellect is relegated to a secondary status in choice and judgment. The good counsel of parents, friends, religious leaders and psychotherapists is of no benefit. Addiction to oxytocin as a pleasure takes over.

    Parents of a young daughter wisely remove her from “him” by sending her to a private school or a distant relative or by threatening “him” with a statutory rape charge if he is over 18. If the bonding is based on incest, the “victim” often keeps the secret based on physical loyalty to the perpetrator. It can take up to two years of abstinence for the chemical pheromone reaction to become subservient to intellectual judgment.

    When I work with an incested woman, I reframe the dialogue into a divorce procedure; this is more realistic. Nature does not care who mates. It wants them together if they are chemically compatible. A girl/woman’s logical mind understands this concept of inappropriate social incompatibility better than a discussion about the evil of criminality. Getting a divorce from an unsuitable mate speaks to the chemical addiction more appropriately.

    Egypt has finally outlawed clitorectomies. By removing the clitoris in a girl, you deprive her of her oxytocin-based right to bond to a man outside her family or clan. Without oxytocin, she “belongs” politically to her father and brothers. With a clitoris, she can be pheromone-stimulated, oxytocin-bonded, and sexually pleasured — all of which allow her to set up her own family in spite of political patriarchies.

  214.  #214janjune on May 24, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    ooo gosh
    i’m thinking if you love yourself enough it doesn’t *”matter* if anyone else loves you. *matter* meaning, lower your self-esteem, quality of your actual life, etc.

  215.  #215LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    The Amazon

    The Women’s Liberation Movement has freed the Amazon to such a degree that many women put its aspects of money, power, and prestige before the other three archetypes. Many young pre-menopausal women are embarrassed to admit that they want to marry and have children ahead of career-building.

    The decision about being a Woman with a Career and not a Career Woman is the dilemma of our era. Putting career performance ahead of processing marriage and babies, while a woman is young, produces distress in the body and raises cortisol levels in the system. To be fertile, a woman’s brain must absorb the neurotransmitter serotonin, which is a natural tranquilizer.

    Long-term, career-driven distress causes an inhibition of serotonin release. This inhibition directly impacts the hormonal balance necessary for impregnation. The current usage of SSRIs is a medical approach to alleviate the serotonin deprivation due to distress. Essentially, young women are not designed to live like testosterone or progesterone-based men and postmenopausal women.

    Further repercussions of young career women with serotonin deprivation are carbohydrate craving and drinking to soothe the anxious nervous system by raising the brain’s glucose levels. Toleration and craving indicate that there is an addictive process going on in a woman’s body — whether genetically based or stress-related.

    Once a woman has committed to a Career Woman/Amazon lifestyle of performance and competition for money, power and prestige, she often must pay sexually and maritally. This woman is highly susceptible to a “bad man.” Men who feed off distressed career women, financially and/or sexually, are aided and abetted when women are anxious. This anxiety can be due to being over-worked, over-stressed, overly medicated with drugs or disinhibited with alcohol, or having low self-esteem from the shame and guilt of eating disorders.

    A man with a good “line” and the right chemistry can easily “bond” such an Amazon woman. T.G.I.F. can occur at the end of everyday, calling for kick-back pleasure, especially sex. He often becomes the Amazon’s dependent “toy-boy” or her dominating abuser — neither a good husband or father for the children she wants “some day soon.”

    Everyday I see women, whose clocks are pounding, who beg for help to abstain from “him” — the “bad man.”. They want a “good man,” but view him to be “boring” or a “sell out.” Quiet goodness and stability don’t “feel” like passion, which becomes the mainstay of women with exciting, painful, passionate bad men.

    Affection, comfort, and being pleasured by a loving, generous, protective, cherishing man does not seem “right” to a woman who has sexually bonded to a man who uses or abuses her. Struggling and pain are part and parcel of her career, as well as her sex life.

    Adulation of the Amazon archetype has cost many young women motherhood and marriage in exchange for careers that would be better served after menopause and chemistry changes. Getting an education in preparation for a delayed career and getting married and having children sooner rather than later, seems more balanced and less susceptible to “bad men” desperate choices. Our life span has extended into the 80s.

    I advise women to carefully decide their sequence of life events. Are you a “Career Woman” or a “Woman with a Career on the side or later in life”? Each has value and each costs with motherhood and marriage. Career Women will make money whether married or not, but may not enjoy motherhood. Women with careers delayed or on the side may not make as much money, power or prestige as their Amazon sisters, but they may enjoy their marriages and motherhood more. My offices are full of unhappy Amazons, not happy moms.

  216.  #216LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    The Mother

    The Mother Archetype and its relationship to self-destructive relationships are my next topic.

    In Freudian psychology, daughters are impacted more by their fathers than their mothers. It is in the reflection of her father’s approval that a daughter perceives her value as a woman. Mother is a role model or the lack of one. When dad is gone, drunk, incestuous, a workaholic, dead, or disinterested, a daughter must look elsewhere for reflection of her self-value.

    Often mother is doing her”Amazon” expression — she is post-menopausal, single, or in a dual-career marriage. The young woman soon learns that performance, or “doing good,” at home, school, job/career is the goal that dad approves of rather than the less goal-oriented processing of “feeling good,” body pleasuring, cherishable femininity. To be a cherishing daddy requires giving attention. This cherishable act is not as efficient, effective or time economical as requiring a daughter to perform respectably. The latter requires less attention like “atta-girl” strokes. Where does she get her cherishable pleasure? You guessed it: sex or food or both.

    Daddy-deprived daughters become daddy-deprived women who often empathize with mommy-deprived men. Becoming his archetypal “Mother” naturally leads to sexual bonding, thus perpetuating her starvation for cherishing from a man. She desensitizes her pain by letting him move into her home, allowing him to borrow money, accepting verbal or physical abuse, or rationalizing that he “needs” a good woman to help heal his childhood traumas. She may let years go by, as she experiences abortions, lost money, body damage, etc., before she hits a bottom where the pain overrides her oxytocin pleasure.

    If she chooses to have a child with this man, the oxytocin stimulated by gestation and lactation can cause her to bond to the baby as a source of pleasure over the man. This phenomenon results in a competition that can lead to splitting up and then engaging in a healing process for her. It can also entail a healing process for him, whereby he begins to cherish his child and its mother. However, if he becomes angry and jealous of his child, it can result in a “shaken baby” injury if he is asked to baby-sit for a crying child. Or he may simply replace her with another woman who is a more attentive mother to him.

  217.  #217janjune on May 24, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    THANK you for posting this, that ties all the addictive attraction information together.

  218.  #218LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    The Black Madonna

    To this point, I have dealt with the three “practical” archetypes — the Playgirl, Amazon and the Mother — and their impact on women who self-destruct with narcissistic men. I now want to talk about the one unique to women. It is the spiritual, “abstract” archetype named the Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    Men have their three “practical” archetypal images in their psyches which match women’s — the Playboy, the Hero (Amazon) and the Father, but women alone have the Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    The lack of actualization of The Black Madonna IS the foundation for why smart, attractive women put up and stay with inappropriate men.

    When a woman has the psychic ability to say “NO” to inappropriate men, even when chemically attracted, she is expressing her Black Madonna voice.

    Girls and women today may attend a religious center and not develop their Black Madonna.
    They may be sexually conservative and not develop their Black Madonna skills.
    Psychotherapy for past wounds will not do it.

    To develop the Black Madonna (Inspiritus), she must know how and when to say”yes” to men, sex, marriage, and motherhood.

    In Jungian, psychodynamic terms each woman has a balance of energy between her body (yin) and her animus (yang) soul.

    This balance manifests in three ways:

    __A balanced anchor which she uses to be a “feel-good” to “do-good” woman

    __A shovel whereby she gives pleasure to “him” and hopes he will reciprocate

    __A claw” — she is a Puella Aeternus (little girl forever) who expects him to shovel pleasure into her without regard for his needs.

    Every man has his persona body (yang) and his anima (yin) soul.
    He demonstrates balance in two ways:
    __giving, protecting and cherishing (yang) women, children, animals and the planet

    __or living in his Puer Aeternus (little boy forever) whereby he uses and/or abuses women, kids, animals and the planet.

    I shall deal with the imbalanced “shovel” woman and her broken sister, the “claw,” before I describe a healthy, balanced, self-loving “anchored” woman.

    When the Playgirl Archetype manifests itself as a “shovel,” a girl/woman gives, protects and cherishes a man too much, especially sexually and financially.
    She is animus (yang energy) driven rather than receiving pleasure (yin) before giving back. Her ego strength is misaligned with her yang soul (animus) rather than her body.
    She is ego-dystonic rather than ego-syntonic; she is inside-out, unbalanced and susceptible to use and abuse by ego-dystonic men who are also inside-out.

    This man’s ego needs to receive pleasure (yin anima), and he must only be sexually available to women who are generous, protective and cherishing of his needs before their own (mommy).
    His sexual passive-aggressiveness is triggered when she complains about her needs.

    The Puella Aeternus “Claw” (yang) animus woman takes from helpless yin anima men (daddy).
    She is so narcissistic, as is a Puer Aeternus yin man, that she lacks compassion or appreciation for a good, balanced man.
    She preys on older men who are susceptible to their estrogen-enhanced oxytocin bonding.
    She likes to sexually seduce men as mistress, prostitute, or dominatrix for money.
    She is not vulnerable until she is post-menopausal when her self-esteem declines sexually.
    At that time, a con-man (yin), often younger, will turn the tables on her for financial gain.

    The remainder of this article deals with the healthy, balanced, ego-syntonic “anchored” in her as a woman, a Black Madonna, a Madonna Inspiritus, a Goddess.

    When a woman is anchored by her animus (yang) soul, she will only say “yes” to what “feels good” to her body, thereby enhancing its health, prosperity and fertility.

    When a man is anchored by his loving anima (yin) soul, he “wants” to give, protect and cherish.
    He “wants” to “do good” to feel good about himself. He will have the courage to want and court a healthy woman with pleasure.
    He will give to get back and she will give back to get more.
    “Faint heart ne’r won fair maiden.”

    To be castrated or intimidated of his anima yin soul condemns him to either:

    __Use women, or
    __Be used by women who themselves are castrated of their animus yang soul ability to say “NO,” the Black Madonna power.

    A man “sees” what he wants.
    A woman “hears” what she wants.
    When this is reversed, the energy balance within each is unbalanced and needs spiritual healing (therapy by an aware counselor).
    How is this done? I recommend Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy.

  219.  #219LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    I shall use a composite case study and call her Sylvia.

    Sylvia is between 35-40, well-dressed, well-groomed, successful in her career or profession (often a therapist).
    She may have any ethnic or religious background with or without past marriages, legitimate or illegitimate children.
    She is either in a relationship with a yin-oriented, yang-deficient man or she wants out of a relationship with him.

    She may be physically abused, but she is always emotionally abused by inadequate, intimidating, women hating men.
    These men at first seduce her with a cunning con sexually.

    Once she is “bonded,” the abuse begins.
    She “knows” he is bad for her and her child, but she cannot leave based on fear or guilt.
    In truth, she must be taught through her mind rather than her feelings because her feelings serve him rather than her.
    Being ego-dystonic causes a loss of her feeling experience and a loss of his logic (due to his exacerbated feelings).
    They fit together pathologically in a dance of symbiosis or learned helplessness.

    A thorough intake will reveal how the balance was lost as a child usually between 3 to 10 years.
    Special notice must be taken of unresolved issues with dad.
    Was he gone? Drunk? Dead? Workaholic? Ill? Violent? Incesting? Was he castrated with his own issues?
    What about mom? What kind of role model was she?
    Was there an older “star” sister or a “baby” sister to compete with?
    Is there a “momma’s boy” brother whom dad rejected as a “sissy,” thereby putting pressure on Sylvia to perform more and process feelings less?

    Perhaps performance is the goal for everyone in the family and she naturally follows suit.
    Sylvia comes to the office when the pain becomes intolerable.
    She wants it all: home, children, career, love, and a good man who loves her and who show its.
    And, she wants it all NOW.

    The first behavioral agreement I get from Sylvia is NO SEX, intercourse with anyone, including “him.”
    If violence is involved, I ask her to move to a safe environment away from him in order to “detox” her off of the oxytocin.
    If necessary, she must have him arrested and put in jail or she must go to the police and file a stalking report.

    If she is unwilling to detox, she is trying to get emotional support from me, which she often is already receiving from girlfriends and other emotive therapists who do not realize that she is addicted to the oxytocin produced in her gonads and restimulated EVERY time she smells him with or without intercourse.
    Sylvia may need to “go out” there longer to hear what I am saying.

    If she is willing to “transfer” to me therapeutically, I ask her to begin reading materials which will educate her about the research backing my treatment.
    I also ask her to begin “duty dating” to desensitize her intellectual choice of men from “bad” to “good.” This entails flirting five minutes per day in a public place with men of all types.
    Bars are excluded because men under the influence of mind-altering drugs are yin-oriented and more of the “same old, same old..”

    Once per week, she must “present” herself passively (yin) to receive men’s attention.
    She can go to coffee bars, churches, dances, sports events, cultural events, educational events, and singles events.
    She flirts by looking into the eyes and smiling (yin), but NOT talking (yang) first.
    She speaks when spoken to; responds instead of acting first.

    Duty dating is uncomfortable for Sylvia because she must receive pleasurable attention without the “passion” of fast sex, drugs or booze to alleviate the anxiety of passivity (yin).
    Sylvia is more comfortable giving, protecting and cherishing him first when he flirts with her.
    Giving BACK(yin) is alien to her.
    She Gives to Get (yang), not Gets to Give BACK (yin) and therefore pleasure is not the motivator; addiction to oxytocin is.

    He only gives in the first dates or weeks.
    Then, he begins to use and abuse her helpless vulnerability due to her oxytocin addiction stimulated by him.
    This is manifested sexually, mentally, financially, socially and spiritually.
    It may take a long period of duty dating at least three men until Sylvia is finally with a good man instead of a bad one.

    A good man finds and deflowers her with his loving ways.
    She may resist his advances at first, but eventually she will learn to feel the pleasure physically.
    Incremental desensitization is the therapeutic goal.

    I often advise Sylvia to not consummate the sexual relationship until engaged as a pragmatic behavior (which tells him, as wars her, that they are embarking on a sexual/social, monogamous, long-term marriage-bound, continuous relationship whose goal is mutual sexual and social pleasure, intellectual companionship, and an emotionally supporting family life with or without a career on the side.

    © 2008 Pat Allen, Ph.D.

  220.  #220janjune on May 24, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    “Without oxytocin, she “belongs” politically to her father and brothers. With a clitoris, she can be pheromone-stimulated, oxytocin-bonded, and sexually pleasured — all of which allow her to set up her own family in spite of political patriarchies.”

    i don’t understand how Politics enters into this…
    does that mean if she can’t be pheromone-stimulated, etc., that the *culture* then deems her to be property of the fathers and brothers, almost like they are branding her and she is forever theirs and this is a politically accepted thing?
    or is it that she just simply won’t have any interest in men, ever, so she will never even want to leave her father and brothers?
    i don’t understand what a political patriarchy is.

    but thank God Egypt has outlawed that.

  221.  #221Xti on May 24, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Brenda re#136, & FW re#146:

    thanks for the feedback. Rushing has been my modus operandi in the past and I’m working to heal that. I feel fine taking things slow now.

    I’ve been reading Carol Allen’s book Love is in the stars. I like the chapter on afflicted men as I’m sure I’m an afflicted woman, which is why I accept the men I do. (CA says “afflicted” is also known as being a “star-crossed lover”.)

    She talks about the challenges in healing this and it dovetails nicely with what Rori teaches. Her take on advice from family and friends is completely different from anything I’ve read though:

    Excerpted page 145: “Your loved ones and supoprt team…may have heard a few too many of your whining stories and may, as a result, have lost hope in your relationship.

    “These people may trigger your ego by making you feel a fool, saying things such as, “He did WHAT? I can’t believe you’re putting up with that CRAP! I’d NEVER take that from my man. What’s wrong with you?”

    This dialogue could easily have been overheard any number of times in my past relationships. I believe this trigger fuels my insecurity and lack of faith in my own judgment.

    At the same time, I do value the input I get from my loved ones as I know that I have accepted men who didn’t put me first.

    Hmmm. I feel enlightened about realizing I’ve valued others’ input more than my own.

    Time and faith in myself. Thanks for reminding me. 🙂

  222.  #222janjune on May 24, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    i was buying Halal meat and chicken from a woman who is from Egypt. a beautiful, kind woman. we become friends kind of, we talked and shared recipes from each other’s families and she had me try some of the food she had in her lunch that her grandmother made.
    she has a beautiful, beautiful soul.
    i went in one day to get chicken and said something about my mother, she told me to bring my mother in so she could meet her. we kind of tiny air-hugged when i left that day. within a couple of days i was driving by there with my mother in the car, so we stopped. i wanted to get some yogurt for my mother.
    i saw this woman in the back of the store and her husband would not let her come out. i didn’t realize it at first. he offered to help us but i said, no i’ll just wait for (his wife’s name). he asked again, i said no, that’s alright, we’re not in a hurry, we’ll wait… we looked around for awhile then i realized twenty minutes had gone by…
    i realized he was making her stay in the back of the store so we quickly got the yogurt and left. i felt so bad. my mother did too. we were afraid we’d had somehow gotten her into trouble. we prayed on the way home that she had not been hurt or mistreated and prayed for God’s protection on her. we didn’t know what to think. i still don’t.

  223.  #223janjune on May 24, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    i feel good to have gotten that off my chest.
    can anyone who might know Egyptian customs tell me anything about this? do you think she was alright?
    i have wondered if the tiny “gurlfriend-ish” American-customized type air-hugg might have been a problem for her husband.
    i pray for her still when i think of her.

  224.  #224Daria on May 24, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    “she is addicted to the oxytocin produced in her gonads and restimulated EVERY time she smells him with or without intercourse”

    this is what the overflowing heart feeling must be that i was having when i saw Getright man after awhile


    feels good to notice

    also makes sense as to why the effect is not as strong when there are other men around that i feel bonded to or attracted to

  225.  #225Daria on May 24, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    janjune – some cultures, some families, some people, think it’s unsafe to socialize with people “outside”

  226.  #226janjune on May 24, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    i worried he had hurt her. somehow i had the feeling he had hurt her over it, physically, and of course, psychologically too.

  227.  #227Daria on May 24, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    janjune – it’s possible. have you been hurt by men?

  228.  #228Rosa on May 24, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Yet, I feel uncomfortable with this subtlety that anyone who prefers to date only one person at a time (because it works for them) is somehow “not doing it right”. lol.

    THanks Lily ..heres to independence of thought and action!

    Rori uses “not CD’ing properly” above in the post as one of the six BLOCKS to finding love…for those that are looking, and I guess the , “every man woman and child ” is important here. She also obviously feels online dating is important for those who are looking for love of course!

    I totally totally agree..best way to meet good people like myself who dont hang out in bars on a regular basis!

  229.  #229Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:03 pm


    i feel tightened up and afraid when

    i think about judging based on culture

    i want to wave a wand and dispell all the veils

    to see the universality of experience

    and feel safe with that


    i have no words

    just breathing

    squeeze a lil love out the tube

    and i love my breathing

    i love my fear

    i love my helplessness

    i love my sadness


    dear earth mother

    please heal our genocide

    and our pain


    shift shift shift

    to rainforest jungle smiling freshness throbbing roots and mist must and mud

  230.  #230janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:09 pm


  231.  #231Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    no it doesnt matter that she was egyptian!

    please dont judge egyptian culture because this incident!

    please don’t see the people as different from you

    i beg you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    thats how racism starts how better than you from the outside starts

    thats what i think


    punching stuff

    yes its true sometimes in that culture the oppression looks obvious

    and from there

    the pain and oprression from this culture looks obvious


    we are not perfect

    oh earth please help us

    i dont want any more genocide

    i feel afraid

    i feel desperate and billowing dust of tightened tummie

    poput pout pout

    blessings blessings blessings

    erase the brain with rain

    i love you i see your divinity

    im sorry for bringing my memories between our divinenesss

    please forgive me and clear them out

    thank you for doing it for me it is done done done!

  232.  #232janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    i feel my stomach lungs intestines churning.
    i feel heave -ey.

  233.  #233Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    jan june i love you!

    i feel lost in this storm of dust

    and tears

    so out of control

    maybe it wouldve been better

    if we never made men in the first place

    its so out of control and scary

    we couldve stayed in one spot without a big bang

    without direction

    without expansion

    just quivering egg

    turning our colors

    feel so sad

    grief grief grief

    i feel tired!!!!

  234.  #234janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    i feel the fear of being afraid i wasn’t going to live.
    i feel the fear of being afraid of having my head bashed in.
    i feel the fear and am present with it of being afrain the side of my head, the bones in the side of my head would be smashed in two inches into my brain
    and of being stabbed in the under the ribs and of lying there on the floor bleeding.

    and of feeling bonded and confused and yes, it felt “crazy”.

  235.  #235janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    it really helps so much to understand this from the point of the information LonePlum just posted here.

  236.  #236Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    i dont want to live in this universe any more!!!

    i feel ::: lots of crying and squeezing in my back

    adn tightness in my mout

    if i had a chance

    would i make them again


    why would i want to make them????

    for fun


    for fun?

    i s that like oxytocin addiction???

    wat the FUC(K

    i am lost

    and i love love love

    my lostness
    and my HATE

    ilove my hate and my helplessness and my pain over

    the past injustices and

    the ones ive done just because

    its the way its done and i want to be doing it

    is it injust to eat a gazzellle GODDAMIT IS IT>???



    i love my hate

    i love my leopards and gazelle and my

    enoermous huge suffering

    i love all my fuchkin sufferring GODDAMITTT

    i fflethe tightness in my face

    with the tears

    and im laughing im laughing hahahahhaaaaaaa

    i love my laughing

    i love my sobby laughing

    i love me

    i love me

    i love my tearysmiles

  237.  #237Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    death is a mysterious step of life like birth i wish we would just get it already so i could get it too!


    and the pain feels scary

    the pain

    the fear of all that

    if they want to be eaten how come i imagine them to look so scared?

    plants like being eaten

    they dont look scared?

    they DO look sacared?

    maybe i could be a plant

    or a rock

    rocks really got it

    rocks really don’t give a FU’ck

  238.  #238Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    love you janjune

  239.  #239Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    glad to see you processing

    breathe and expand me sideways

    the fear

    the pleasure

  240.  #240janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    it’s okay, we as women can learn to make different choices and to listen to what our bodies and our sense is telling us about what’s safe and what isn’t and just walk away from the things that we are being told by ourselves might hurt us.
    we can do it. we can. i know we can.
    there is alot of love and good in this world and we just have to hook up with that ansd stand for that and say NO to what we don’t want.
    and fight back if we have to.
    and stay away from things that don’t feel good to us or right for us.

  241.  #241Daria on May 24, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    confused about this one:

    and fight back if we have to


    gonna eat chicken soup

    thank you bird for becoming me

  242.  #242janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    also daria,
    the issue LonePlum wrote about about some cultures where the clitoris is removed has bothered me for years. i didn’t know about it until about 12 years ago.
    i didn’t realize this was something that was done in Egypt, too only knew that in Africa is done, other places too. i was introduced to it as female genital mutilation. which is exactly what it is.
    anyway, just so you know, i didn’t have preconceived ideas about Egyptian culture as this woman was the first person I’d ever gotten acquatinede with who was from there. i was happy to meet and get to know someone from Egypt. She was lovely! thought everything was cool/ i had been in many, many times over the course of three years or so.

    so for her husband to be keeping her in the back where i could see her and she could she me but she could not come out and talk to me and my mother ,,, it didn’t occur to me that he was doing this, just that she was busy at the moment with something. as it was starting to sink in that he didn’t want me to talk to her i was looking at her and she was standing up and had her head tucked between her shoulders and was hunched over leaning on a table and would not look up. she stayed that way, working on something with her hands while resting her elbows on the table.
    that all came across to me and my mother as someone having been injured.
    and knowing that some cultures and religions have strictness about touching. and she and i had touched during the air hugg a couple days earlier. and he never had a problem with me coming in the three years before.
    like i said, i didn’t know what to think.
    i was just trying to put this together.
    i really liked her alot. i enjoyed our friendship, limited though it was.

  243.  #243kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    I need help on what I wrote in #114.

    Because today I feel ashamed that it weighs so heavily on me that he still hasn’t contacted me. I feel ashamed that I’m letting this bring my vibe down.

  244.  #244janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    i thought about going back the next day or two and ask her husband to talk to him and apologize if i had infringed on any custom that i was unaware of.
    i was afraid i’d make things worse though. i really didn’t kno wwhat to do so just ended up doing nothing.

    my mother wanted some more of that yogurt, it’s Bulgarian yogurt and delicious but i told her i didn’t think it woul;d be a good idea to go in again and just haven’t been back.
    i do think about her and pray for her when i drive by.

    this feels good to release this.

  245.  #245janjune on May 24, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    love you, too, daria ((hug))

  246.  #246janjune on May 24, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    thank you for bringing up about
    “and fight back if we have to”
    i don’t know what that means
    i was just letting it come out as it came up

    i feel blessed to be pointed in the direction of that statement.
    i don’t know where to start to process it.
    i guess at this:
    i feel like if that ever even BEGAN to start happening to me again, i would fight like hell, for all i was worth and NOT be shocked and NOT be stunned and NOT trust him to not do that or to stop or to not hurt me, no! i feel like if anyone raised their hand to me again or even looked like it, they would be OUT THE DOOR so fast, with me being oxytocin-drenched or not, it would make their head swim. and NEVER get back in. and NEVER accetp another phone call. and NEVER even think about them again. period.
    Phooey. looooool that feels good to say looool

    and i know now that physical abuse starts with emotional abuse and mental abuse. and i know now that oxytocin isn’t LOVE. its just oxytocin.

  247.  #247janjune on May 24, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    i can feel my self-esteen level raising right now.

  248.  #248janjune on May 24, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    i want to type that one right.
    ’cause i’m claiming that from now on for myself, straight on into eternity.

  249.  #249kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    My NV’s are stabbing my brain. Next stop: ripping out my heart.

  250.  #250janjune on May 24, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    kaitlyn #114,
    forgive yourself for letting it bring your vibe down.
    then if it happens again, forgive yourself again. and again etc. just keep forgiving yourself. you don’t have to be perfect.
    and look at what feels like ashamed and dive into it to find out what its all about. where it comes from are there other thoughts attached to it what are they? from childhood? from other men? from where? it’s all tied together in there (our heads) that’s why rori tells us to just jump in that soup and sink into it and feel all the feelings surrounding what feels like *bad* because you can touch all of it and look at all of it and feel all of it and figure out (emotionally) where it all comes from, not that that matters, but it does all surface eventaully in a way that you can deal with it piece by piece (which is her babysteps Tool) .
    it feels to me like he’s cautiously, repeat, *cautiously* coming back toward you.
    rori wrote “give a man a chnace.”
    i’m feeling “give the man time”.
    time to process how he feels
    time to reconnect in his own way.
    time to listen to himself.

    if he follows through and does actually come back to you and you start dating again, you won’t have as much drama because it sounds like he’s trying to work through it on his own.

    it’s hard, but i’d give him time.

    pamper yourself.
    do the things that make you feel girly.
    go get a coffee.
    shop for new earrings, not earring to wear for him, but just some you like.
    put salad dressing on your salad. the kind you like. lots of it, just this one time.
    re-read the oxytocin parts of what Plum posted.

    but i’d def give him time…

  251.  #251Daria on May 24, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    thoughts im thinking through:

    the purpose of life is not to have fun (says my dad)

    i felt ashamed and dissapointed and crushed

    (why? because it doesn’t benefit other people, and the whole of humanity.

    and is not enduring, making changes that carry on your spirit after death)

    that is STATUS

    like whoa look at that person we all know him and keep knowing him after he died


    status is important

    making sure you are rememberd agter death

    tight throat

    is that status

    big ness?

    STATUS yes



    ok of course its not true that fun is exclusive with these

    and do i care about these

    real talk i do

    care about status

    though some parts of me dont care

    and i feel afraid and ashamed of aknowledging that

    i see it as an addiction



    wow a relief babystep

  252.  #252janjune on May 24, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    we DO hold this stuff in our BODIES!
    omg, i’m sure it shows. to the outside world.
    i am breathing such deep breathes, have been for about three weeks but now i feel like a car has been lifted off of my chest.

    i keep feeling myself drawing in deep cleansing draughts of air and blowing them out and it feels like opening a window on a sunny breezey warm day in June and letting the air in the house circulate.

    omg tears
    they feel cleansing too.
    washing out the old stale fibers of something past and gone and opening up the space for health and pinkness blood vesses and light and

    im holding that space open.
    nothing else can have it
    i claim it.

  253.  #253Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    RE 213 Thanks Loneplum. I have heard CCarter mention that book and have been meaning to read it but never got around to it. Thanks for this summary.

  254.  #254Ella on May 24, 2011 at 4:14 pm


    I am feeling longing…

    I feel a longing in me. To be free and have fun.

    To go to a festival and just dance in the sun and feel the wind in my hair.

    To drink (a bit) and get crazy (a lot).

    I am thinking back to boat parties a few years ago with nostalga. I want to go to a boat party in the sun with my DnB friends…

    But that was so long ago and they are far away. I don’t know how to reconnect with them w/o leaning forward.

    I feel sad about this 🙁

    I was feeling lonely tonight. I wanted to fill the gap with men. I want a male’s company.

    I want to feel excited.

    I am feeling ‘wanty’. Lol, love my wantiness.

    There was no-one coming towards me tonight, even on FB all was quiet.

    So I decided to take care of myself. Cook and eat a healthy meal, take a hot shower, exfoliate and then do my nails which I am always annoyed I don’t have time to do.

    I feel good and happy, and I still want some excitment soon.

    I want to dance and bask in male attention, that would feel great!

    Tomorrow CD is coming round. 3rd date. As I am finishing teaching my class late he suggested chilling with a DVD at mine.

    I said ok and now feeling a lil nervous in case he gets too fresh. The only place to watch DVD in my room is on the bed…

    Hmmm, I could suggest going out somewhere but I think I will let it flow. I will let him kiss me if he tries to see how that feels but nothing more.

    I feel anxious with the thought ‘what if I have to fight him off’.

    I asked myself earlier if I would not prefer to be taken out… and was I afraid to state this for fear he will not date me if I say no.

    But then I realised I do kinda want to stay in. It would feel nice just to relax.

    As long as he is not too full on!

  255.  #255Meemee on May 24, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I love this post
    I really love this post

  256.  #256Ella on May 24, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Janjune re 252,

    I love this post.

    I think it is so true. I have problems with massive pain in my back and I am sure it is that I hold a lot of my tension there!

    No amount of sretching and moving seems to help so now I am looking for new ways to ease the tension and have been experimenting with sending love to that area, and acually consiously thinking to relax it!

    Funny cus I too have been picturing havin healthy insides!

    Feels good huh.

    Janjune feels lovely to see your process on here…


  257.  #257kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 4:20 pm


    You like DnB?!!! Holla!!!!! I like my dub step dirtier than a used syringe found on Skid Row!!!

  258.  #258kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    note to sirens: the ‘dirtier than…’ is just an online thingy d+b peeps say to each other when complimenting the dirtiness (thick bass sounds and such) of that style of music.

  259.  #259Meemee on May 24, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I hate it when I dont have a chance to read and follow this blog

  260.  #260kaitlyn on May 24, 2011 at 4:28 pm


    yep. sometimes this place is more convoluted than 4chan. lol

  261.  #261Ella on May 24, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Funny thing happened with housemate earlier.

    Haven’t really seen him for a few days and have turned focus right off him.

    Saw him this afternoon and he had lost his sunglasses and he seemed really bothered about it. And as time went on he seemed to stew on it.

    He kept mentioning it and stating how they had been on the side and he had not moved them.

    Kept saying how strange it was that they had just disappeared, and he weird thing is he seemed to be getting more and more irate about it.

    He kept saying they are worth £60 and he definitely left them on the side…

    And it felt, I mean really felt, as though he was insinuating that I had taken them. As I left he was on the phone ranting to someone about it and I had to tell him something as I was leaving and he looked at me with a face like thunder. I heard him kinda whispering on the phone then.

    It is not the first time he has lost stuff. And he is quick to jump to conclusions about who might be to blame when stuff happens.

    Don’t mean to be judgemental, just what I have noticed.

    And it makes me feel a lil anxious.

    He has not actually come out and accused me of taking them but that is definitely the feel I have been getting.

    And it feels bad.

    And it was all I could do not to start making up stories in my head about why he seems to think I have taken his sunglasses.


    Felt v uncomfortable.

    And there seems to be a lot of anger…

    But what I realise is that it is not my anger, and therefore I will not accept it.

    Hopefully he will find them, or this issue will just pass over, but if it continues to get uncomfortable I will address it with him.

    I feel nervous about my ability to stand up for myself. But I will stand up for myself, bc I have spent too long in my life not doing so!

  262.  #262Emerson on May 24, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Regarding dating a man with kids….thanks everyone for your feedback, it is really helpful. I do want to give him a chance because he’s a great guy. I’ve known him for over a decade.

    I feel scared of competing with their “real” Mom. Like they will say mean things about me and talk crap. It’s just my insecurity.

    Boomer, No, I didn’t notice a difference when the therapist did the tapping on me..and yes, I was thinking “whaa???”

    It was something to do with my Dad, and I don’t think it really changed how I felt about him at the time.

  263.  #263Ella on May 24, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Kaitlyn re 257

    Loool, I love my music grimy too!

    Yay for dirty, grimy, sexy music.


  264.  #264LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    220: janjune

    I did wonder too when I read the part about Egypt
    Mutilating little girls is expanded all around the world. It is not specific to Egypt.

    I don’t agree with Dr Allan understanding of the little girls mutilation.
    It is not to keep them for the fathers and brothers at all. On the contrary. Fathers make sure their daughter stay virgin and won’t follow a lover who has no value to bring to his family, because he wants to exchange her to a man outside of the family to gain alliances and benefits from that new family. Same as when a father walks his daughter up the church’s alley, dressed in her bride ceremony white custom, to “give” her to the groom.
    He will also give alliances and benefits to other men who give him new women for his sons.
    The woman is the greatest exchange value in a family/clan/country. Her marriage to a man outside of the family expands the family into the world.
    Husbands too want to know the woman won’t cheat on him or run away, even when he is a poor lover and husband. They won’t marry a woman who is not mutilated. Mutilation is not to keep a sister home for ever, it is to keep a wife home for ever. They are married very young and being a frightened desperate child, they could bound with a young stranger and run away with him from the husband’s house . Husbands also are afraid to not be the fathers of the woman’s baby. With mutilation, they hope that she won’t be interested in accepting strangers sexual offers.
    And last but not least the clitoris is the female penis. It is cut off for the woman to stay a woman and to not forget she can’t access a man’s status, no matter how able she is.


  265.  #265Ella on May 24, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Need to sleep…

    Too late to catch up on blog properly!

    Night dudes (dunno why I said that just felt like saying something different from Sirens for a change!).


  266.  #266Meemee on May 24, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Feeling too stressed
    Pressed down

  267.  #267Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Ella he might just be an angry man looking for a place to let it out. I would also notice if he uses blame as an ongoing pattern. Might not be so attractive after all.

    Did you read what Loneplum wrote above. It seems to have some nuggets for you, at least that’s what I thought.

  268.  #268LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    223 Janjune

    Egypt is a country and as such it has millions inhabitants who embrace several religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, the Bahá’í Faith, and also agnostic people who don’t give a damn. And it has groups who embrace cultural beliefs, beyond religions, like in any other country.
    I don’t know the man in the shop so I don’t know what is the root of his anxiety for him to control his wife. I don’t know if it is personal, linked to his own feeling of inferiority, or linked to the souvenir of a massacre, or linked to a sect he belongs to, like there are in the USA or linked to his ancestral beliefs, if there is any, or linked to his interpretation of a worldly spread religion such as Christianity, Islam or Judaism.
    Who knows if he even did anything? Maybe she was ignoring you and he staid out of it? May be he was controlling her, I don’t know, like I would not know if you told me he was English or Greek.


  269.  #269Femininewoman on May 24, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Emerson it is self defeating to think of yourself as competing with other women.

  270.  #270Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    from the previous thread
    #264: janjune

    SYNERGY. absolutely. I am glad I came to read your post again at this particular time. because I am feeling very irritated with very controlling type behavior from another man from my long ago past. I was OK with just being friends with him, some time after leaning way, way, way, way back, after we tried romance two years ago and it did not work out. I have no intention of taking it further with him ever again. We are decidedly NOT a match. And now that he and his gf are on the skids, he is acting like I have been waiting for him for two years, and now that *he* is ready, he is making all these plans. I just wanted to SPIT! Get. Offa. Me.!! This is not a man who “THINKS*! And he obviously has not been paying attention. Obviously, it doesn’t matter what I want or feel. So, reading your post calmed me down. I, too am grateful for your mirror words to my pov. you really got the gist of what I was saying, i appreciate that.

    “Eliz: -any man I have a total relationship with will have already done much work on their own”

    “JanJune: this is mandatory. i’m feeling a little more confident that i can actually tell now if they have done this or not. with the Tools.
    i knew i couldn’t tell before, so just quit trying. my man picker was soooooo off. uuuuughh”

    I can tell pretty quickly. Where I fall down is that I have been ignoring it in favor of intriguing personality traits, mystery, chemistry, peak experiences, a little danger. I missed all that in my late teens and twenties. But I know so well that I don’t need these kinds of experiences any more, as one result of inner work. And, because I like and enjoy my own company, I would much rather be alone than with someone who has a lot of issues.

    JJ: “i could not be in total relationship happily with a man who was not about transforming and growing and encouraging the efforts of those around him to do the same.”

    I love that!!

    lots of hugs janjune!! 🙂


  271.  #271Meemee on May 24, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Just want to tell you that many academic studies that criticizes the traditional oriental anthropology sort of sees many of the cultural practices not as violence. But merely as cultural practices. (This has always been highly disturbing to me, personally). People say that many practices (which appeared as violent to the western eye) were merely inherent to those cultures. Of course, I am giving a diluted version of such arguments. But even the term “violence” has been redifined. They even say that such practices were not perpetuated with coercion but with consent.

    I was disturbed when I had to read such studies and I spent many sleepless nights trying to challenge such studies. But, even then, I just want to say that it is becoming a new stream in academia to emphasise the cultural specificity of many many practices that are explicity violent to women.

  272.  #272LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Kaitlyn 243

    It takes 2 years for the addiction to wear off. Check the oxytocin info in 213. And this is supposing you don’t smell him again before the end of the 2 years, otherwise it starts all over again.
    You are a junkie dying for a dose of her man crack.
    Welcome to the club.
    What you are going through has a scientific explanation, there is no shame in feeling so bad, it just is.
    Shame has no business here and you can help yourself, get out there and date at least 3 men at the same time until you feel totally free from the withdrawal symptoms.
    Force yourself.

    It is not so much that you are hoping for his sign that brings you down, it is that you think you should be ashamed of it, you don’t even give yourself the permission to be a woman in pain and also you think no other man as good as him will want you. That’s when you panic.
    “What if he never meets me again, who will love me?”
    This thought brings down anybody. Chose another one.
    “I have all the time in the world to meet the man I want to project my love on.
    I got the love, it is the same since I was born, it is inside me.
    I can project it on anybody at all.
    It is my take, my decision.
    Adam may stay absent for ever, he has nothing mine with him. The love is inside my heart and I decide on whom I project it. I can decide to stop projecting it on Adam, I can do that without meeting him again. And may be life wants Adams to meet me again and we will be happy, or I won’t want him anymore, I will have met a better man to project my love on.
    Who knows?
    The thing is this is not to be resolved today. I can breath and feel happy today. I’ll see later what I do with the love I own, it is mine, it is going nowhere until I decide. It is safe inside me. I can feel happy today, I have no obligation to feel bad. I can feel happy. If Adams is wanting to phone me he will, even if I feel happy today. If he wants to phone me, he will even if I date 3 men to desintoxicate me.
    I win if he phones and I win if he does not.
    I have all the time in the world.”


  273.  #273Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    184: JennS :

    Hi Jenn,

    Thank you for your response..
    I guess the answer to your question.. “why do you feel you need to say something”.. is that aren’t we in the game of speaking feeling messages.. and if I am feeling it at the time.. wouldn’t it be best to be authentic rather than pretend I am not feeling something..”

    We can still be authentic about what we are feeling and not share it out loud. This isn’t about acting on impulse. But it’s also not about acting with a specific outcome in mind. It’s about discerning how is this action or non-action of benefit to the big picture? rather than just going for immediate gratifucation. So my q back to u is why is it not enough to “just be” with your feelings for x and not necessarily have to share them with him? I’m not saying you shouldn’t. What is the payoff for you in doing that? Is it a quick fix to make yourself feel less uncomfortable with not knowing? And what is it, exactly, that you miss? From what I remember, he didn’t treat you so well ?
    What do you think?

    xxoo 🙂

    “I could say.. I feel uncomfortable because I want to say something but don’t want to intrude on your boundaries..”.. but that sounds so.. blah blah blah..

    So.. I am not sure.. I just know how I feel at this moment.. and I did not see him last night.. which was a good thing.. actually I feel good that I did not see him as I was a bit calmer. But again.. arean’t we supposed to speak feeling messages.. or is it that we are but not all the messages we are feeling??”

  274.  #274Daria on May 24, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Yes they can be consensual.

    Also look at circumcision for men

  275.  #275LonePlum on May 24, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Meemee 271

    ***Just want to tell you that many academic studies that criticizes the traditional oriental anthropology sort of sees many of the cultural practices not as violence.***

    What nationality were the authors of such studies?


  276.  #276Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    246. janjune

    “and fight back if we have to”
    and i know now that physical abuse starts with emotional abuse and mental abuse. and i know now that oxytocin isn’t LOVE. its just oxytocin.”

    Yup. I’ve had a man i dated once where there was a lot of physical attraction, try to make it seem like he *accidentally* pushed me into a wall. My immediate response was to shove him back. I’m not saying that is a good thing, just that my body instinctively *knew* it wasn’t an accident and responded in defense. Of course this was all turned around against me –“Look at you, you violent reactive woman, it was only an accident!” No. It. Wasn’t. Slimebucket. You just couldn’t control yourself and tried to make it into an accident. The tip-off was that you didn’t even ask me if I was alright, you just defended yourself. Oxytocin made me reconsider, because, you know, a-holes can be good guys –80% of the time. Never again. I would not even deign to sneeze in your direction if I were ever to see you anywhere, without a full-out apology. I am so grateful I can compartmentalize this and not allow it to affect how I feel about good men!!


  277.  #277Daria on May 24, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Wow mother came in

    I said I felt afraid



    Talked to and not part of the conversation

    Hey hey hey!!
    I don’t want to be talked to this way

    Thank you for telling me your thoughts and it would feel good to discuss this sometime when it feels more open and safe

    She came to talk to me about how if I’ve been studying Rotis stuff for 10 years and it’s not working it wint. And do I have other things besides my body sensuality and sexuality I’m interested in. And how sexuality or focusing on men and finding a man is not the way to wellbeing and can become obsessive and addictive and not lead to fulfillment.

    It feels so frustrating to hear this . Roris work is about that. And my personal transformation and benefit has been huge.

    I feel so invisible and misunderstood.

    I didn’t get to share that.

    I did share I was feeling shaky.

    I noticed a pattern of my mom waking up feeling anxiety and then ‘dumping’ it on me w similar lectures or speeches about how she’s worried about me and blames herself for stuff.

    I handled this one really differently in that I expressed my fear and focused much on relaxing my body and breathing and touching the stiff parts.

    And I expressed Tons of feeling messages and no attacks.

    Yay Daria.

    Pats on the back for you.

  278.  #278Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    I just thought of this, i used to see on bumpersticker LOL…

    Humpty Dumpty was pushed.


  279.  #279Daria on May 24, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Still feeling a bit shaky.

    Felt a touch of sadness when the thought: she doesn’t honor or ‘get’ your work and interest
    And that’s not true

    And I moved on from there

    Still tight thighs a lil back


    Tight lips and cheeks and tongue

  280.  #280Daria on May 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    More pats on the back for you Daria. You really deserve enormous praise love and attentiOn right now.

    You are a great girl, youre doing great, you’re just fabulous.

  281.  #281Daria on May 24, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    Ok she’s back:

    Notices me glancing in the mirror and looks at it too .

    Then we talk about a plan then says:

    ‘what are you looking at in the mirror all the time’

    So I pause and check my feelings

    She’s like: ‘why are you scowling. You’ll get wrinkles’

    I say:

    I feel… Ummm…

    She looks scowly and says : you feel what

    I say diminutively: mm I am afraid, :(. I feel attacked

    She says dusmissively as leaving and shutting door: you’re
    afraid, well sit there with your fear then

    This felt bad and I feel sad now and she’s gone.

    I’ve now locked the door too.

    She had Invited me if I want to watch something on TV or go to a movie with her and we made plans in an hour

    But now I feel angry and ‘punishing’. I don’t want to go around her I feel mad.

    How dare you harass and attack me this way woman! I feel angry!!!!

    Wat da Fuchk.

  282.  #282DE on May 24, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Feeling exhausted tonite …

    I pulled weeds…and cleaned my patio…it felt good though…we are supposed to get rain again tomorrow.

    Now, I feel all melty…in my pjs and cozy/warm robe…

    Part of me feels excited about an extended weekend…Friday till Monday…

    I want to get wonderful things accomplished…

    I might be kidless…

    Planning on cleaning my house of “memories” that make me sad …

    I feel resistant to remove items I received as gifts 🙁 I know of women returning gifts to their lovers…I never felt like doing it because I didn’t rely feel bad about them…yet, these are memories that apparently keep me hold on to a past…and hope of reconnection to men I need to let go of…

    I feel scared…a bit tearful and vulnerable…

    I miss being held…I want affection so bad…

    I feel afraid I might give in if A pressures me once more…:(

    Even kissing can raise my oxitocyn levels…

    Hmm…I dunno…what I am gonna do…

  283.  #283janjune on May 24, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    thank you ella 256

    if you know how to contact jacqueline, she could probably tell you how to start clearing that energy in your back.

    i’m going to try sending love to a place under my arm. i had asked daria about etheric clearing awhile back, i feel like there is energy blocked there… love the idea about sending love to that part.

  284.  #284Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    “For instance Elizabeth refers to CCarter as using the armchair psychology because he seems to suggest that men have no responsibility in relationships.”

    FW, while I do like some of what he offers, I’ve seen how he repeatedly throws around psychological concepts like
    REJECTION and ABANDONMENT and SELF-DECEPTION and then cobbles together a cause-effect scenario and expects it to be adopted as a valid, empirical, frame of reference:

    “Here’s how it works…The fear of pain and loss often leads us to ignore our thoughts and intuition and replace our fearful thoughts with happier thoughts that make us feel comfortable. It’s the mind’s “emotional defense mechanism.”

    Oh yes! The final outcome of all those rigorous years of brain research, fear, stress response, endocrine system, etc, etc….. condensed into one paragraph! Hallelujah!!

    more CC:
    “A man’s reasons for committing, or not committing, are his FEELINGS and EMOTIONS.
    Sounds simple, but it’s profound and true.”

    Simple, profound, true….Neandrathal man. yeah.
    NOT a man who listens to his feelings/emotions AND intellect.

    feeling feisty tonite!


  285.  #285Daria on May 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Mom came and hugged me.

  286.  #286Daria on May 24, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    I too believe that men decide w women based on their emotions and Not intellect.

  287.  #287Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Daria, it’s a pretty popular viewpoint these days to value feelings/emotions over intellect. I believe they are not separate. Children developmentally operate on feelings/emotions alone. Self-realized adults have come full circle and do not discount their wisdom along with their feelings/emotions. Well, that’s what I believe. I don’t feel irritated or challenged by you, just happy to allow you your own viewpoint and happy to have mine and co-exist peacefully.

  288.  #288janjune on May 24, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    i really appreciate you sharing the information in #264. thank you.

  289.  #289janjune on May 24, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    i am so with you there that
    “you know, a-holes can be good guys –80% of the time”

    loool so true!
    then they just sneak right on in there under the radar. 🙂

    and then that turn around and blame *you* bit…
    i’m with you, Never Again. 🙂


  290.  #290Daria on May 24, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Tracking my cd stuff:


    So this guy my girlfriend hooked me up with called me.

    I missed his call by 30 sec and wondered whether I should return it or not return calls of men (unless they leave a voicemail to). A lot of guys I know don’t leave voicemails and I started a Long time ago just returning missed calls especially when I feel thrilled that the phone is ringing.

    This guy is kinda dead end – he’s on house arrest.

    But I’ve bern feeling lonely as we know so am glad to talk to a new man.

    So I call back and he says hi.

    I say hi (big smile)

    He says how are you?

    (Im thinking his voice sounds a bit whiny a bit turn off for me)

    I say: (pause to check my feelings). Ohhh I’m feeling dizzy I’ve bern running around a lot. Around the house.

    He says: oh I just got outta class. I’m feeling irritated cuz my money didn’t come and it was supposed to.

    I say: aww

    He says: yeah I gotta buy a buncha stuff yada yada (I’m thinking all of a sudden is he saying this to test me whether I’m gonna offer him money?)

    I say: aww that sux

    He says: what ate you doing tomorrow ? If I wasn’t on house arrest I would’ve been come see you

    I say: oh

    He starts asking me for a full body picture just for him

    I say ohh I don’t have any on my phone and I keep trying but they aren’t coming out how I like

    I say have you seen my myspace I have a lot there

    He says no I requested u u have to add me

    I say no it’s not private you can see it

    He says: yeah I want to see your body

    I say: yeah I look really cute

    I said: yeah look on myspace It look really good

    So now he says he will



    Major confidence but fell off into directing and stuff. Uhoh. Yet I feel good and energetic having these convos. Hmm.

    More practice.

  291.  #291Daria on May 24, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Elizabeth – I think ‘value’ is quite a different spin from what I said.

    I also think wisdom is different than intellect in some ways.

    I Do feel challenged and adversarial.

    I feel angry ok… No I feel frustrated because I want to get deep into using tools and it Seems to me that would be easier with a support group that is on board with Rori tools and concepts (this is one of them as I understand, that men choose emotionally).

    However that’s probably a false belief as it may be just as helpful to practice on the blog with a mixed bag of beliefs.

    I will superhone my abilities to Focus on me and what I want
    And Do It Myself

    Although here again get I heard it works much better as a group and I feel frustrated that were not all on board.

    But wow! Am realizing I’m wearing blinders to the women who are on board, DE, Ella and Janjune among others.

    This is some kinda stuff going on for me that triggers this feeling.

  292.  #292janjune on May 24, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    271 i feel very interested in what you are saying. i know you haven’t been able to spend much time on the blog lately but if you have time
    would you mind sharing what the redefinition of violence is in regard to this issue?
    also, what points you came up with to challenge the studies.
    and you said, “But, even then, I just want to say that it is becoming a new stream in academia to emphasise the cultural specificity of many many practices that are explicity violent to women.”
    does this mean that mainstream universities are acknowledging, studying explicit violence against women, culture by culture?

  293.  #293janjune on May 24, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    i think men do both.
    pick emotionally and pick intellectually.

    this is just from my experience and the experience of the women i am close to. i believe i see it even in the men’s profiles that were online.

    like some of them would SAY “you must be financially independent”.
    or “must like motorcycles”.
    or “must like football”.
    THEN and only then would you even be considered…
    (but there was more “must pay your own way”-type verbage than i could believe. i felt surprised that men would just plop that out into their profiles.)

    then there, of course, were the other men who were looking for love and there were some conditions, but not really too specific. i felt like those were the ones who were using their emotions to do the picking.

    i actually want one who uses his emotions but *consults* his head too.
    in everything he does actually…

  294.  #294Elizabeth on May 24, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    291. Daria,
    I do like your attitude on this, how you are taking responsibility for your own feelings, and willing to work the tools within a mixed bag of opinions. hell yeah, it’s good practice, because that’s how it is in the RL!

    so, you think part of being on board with Rori’s tools and concepts includes believing that men choose emotionally.

    then, the last thing you say is:

    “This is some kinda stuff going on for me that triggers this feeling.”

    in order to get to this “stuff” that is going on for you that triggers this feeling, you would be relying on intellect to provide an *insight*, right?

    and my objection is, why do we keep letting men off the hook from also doing this kind of introspective insight work towards better relationship, and keep saying, oh, they choose based on emotion alone,

    and it is up to the women to do and say the right things in order to create the right mix of emotions that will make them choose us.

    I believe in both men and women working together towards each sex having more balanced masculine and feminine energies, not androgynous, but better able to be happy and have fun together with less conflict. I don’t want to be overly identified with my gender. That’s all I’m saying.



  295.  #295janjune on May 24, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    woohoo! i’m going to bed early tonight! YaY!
    mmmm… get some sleep. it’s raining the tiny pitter patter of raindrops sounds so soothing. i’m going to get a glass of wine and go soak in the lagoon… i think i’ll light a candle too.

    goodnight goddessezzz zzz zzz zzz

    mermaid janjune

  296.  #296DE on May 24, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Hmm…For a relationship to last, a man must love his woman and a woman must respect her man…

    when I think of a man choosing his woman using his heart …i imagine a healthy heart…with healthy feelings like: respect, compassion, adoration, affection, protection…overall, he chooses his woman based on how he feels with her…period…

    when i think of a man choosing his woman using his intellect …i imagine the woman fits his criteria that could include: hair color, eye color, body type, height, social position, intellect…this seems more like fitting his fantasy…

    and yes, i hear those who say a man and/or woman should use both…heart and intellect…

    so far, based on my own heart exercises…i can finally say with 100% accuracy that heart leads the intellect…one can rationalize the pros and cons and go bananas using their intellect…happiness and joy unlikely to be achieved unless they are both “robots”…which nowadays, it’s a very familiar experience…i watch so many couples acting towards one another like roommates and not like lovers…but, they enjoy the luxury of their home, properties, social connections, etc…

    Using Rori’s tools I learned to deeply connect to the center of my being…and really understand what is real and what is not…my heart feels icky when my intellect tries to override it…

    when we begin to justify things through our intellect without checking with our heart first…the results are disastrous in the long run…i want amazing long term results and not just quick fixes where my intellect is very quick and familiar to running the show…

    but then again, that’s just me…

  297.  #297DE on May 24, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Wow…this disagreement in views…brought back a very powerful image in my mind…

    Twenty one years ago…during my high school graduation, I was chatting with some of my classmates about our future…I remember sharing with them nonchalantly (weird, i believed it…) that in the next five years I would drive a nice foreign car and likely leave overseas…They literally laughed at me…I felt humiliated…:( They both had better financial means than I did…

    And sure enough, I did realize my dream with an absolute zero effort…in the next five years…

    This quote fits very well with my experience

    “~Until you are able to See yourself living the life that you truly want, it will be difficult for you to create it~ Katherine Woodward Thomas”

    The same is with my belief that the man with a big heart will find me and love me unconditionally forever…and I intend to be ready for him…with an open heart as well!!!

  298.  #298Queenbee on May 24, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Rosa – thank you for your post on CDing. It really breaks it down and helps to understand better the different contexts and nuances.

    Elizabeth, Lily-T – thanks for your voice. I still do agree with what you are saying. Especially Lily-T in 145. You are absolutely right. Some women have figured it out without needing to date several men at the same time.

    I’m definitely not against CDing and I see it’s value. But you are right not EVERY woman NEEDS to do this, and definitely not a ‘certain’ way.

    I think I really underestimated myself when I got with HAman. I was so eager to CD and let him know I would be ‘keeping my options open’ etc. Thinking – ooh this is going to raise my vibe and draw him in. What rubbish! I was just fine the way I was.

    I have mastered how to live my life that feels good and powerful to me. Men are already attracted. If anything, it’s me who chooses not to be in a relationship for all sorts of reasons – and sometimes the man just isn’t right for me and I don’t go there. Or I do, it’s short-lived and I get over it fast.

    The moment it clicks in my head what doesn’t work and won’t make me happy, I start on the healing path and get over it easily. Mostly it’s about me acknowledging my error to myself and being gentle with myself through the healing while appreciating the awareness of it all.

    I feel so sad now. HAman has not contacted me. I feel sooo attached. I’m not feeling less attached as the days go by. I don’t know what’s going on… or what he’s thinking about me… why he is not contacting me….

    CDing did nothing for me except to give HAman confusing messages about me. (Feeling triggered by myself).

    I CD anyway! I’m always CDing, including men -just not the same romantic hot dates I would have with HAman. So I’m all for CDing. Just did not need to drag HAman into it.

    Right now I’m just contemplating if this was a real or imaginary relationship and what I want. It really looked like he was offering me the relationship I want – until I couldn’t handle the intimacy and brought up the CDing crap then it all went downhill. I feel so regretful!! 🙁

    I feel like reaching out to him. But I’m processing too much right now… so I won’t do it. I feel self-controlled.

    I’m just wondering about this attachment feeling. I don’t feel terrible or anything. I just miss him like crazy. I want him to talk to me and tell me what’s going on. I want to know if he is coming back, or if we have a chance. I want him to understand where I’m coming from and see if we can make this work.

    I’m wondering if he’s giving me time like he did some time before and expecting me to contact him when I’m ready?

    I want him to know that I care about him without leaning forward. His birthday is next Friday. Do you think I should send a wish or just ignore it since he is not contacting me?

    Or is the Siren thing to do – not contact him and see if he will remember/ miss me and contact me? Stay on my rock and keep taking care of me?

    My thoughts are that if a man truly cares he will not stay away no matter what. He will resolve things quickly with the woman. He won’t go on vacation without his woman unless it is an imaginary relationship. He won’t go alone to Milonga every Saturday night – that opens up two possibilities:

    1) She waits for him and feels resentful.
    2) She accepts a date from another man

    Surely, he would know this and even expect it.

    He would also invite her to learn tango with him if he saw her as part of his future.

    I sense Imaginary Relationship –

    What do you think Sirens?


  299.  #299DE on May 24, 2011 at 10:26 pm


    “I sense Imaginary Relationship – ” I think u feel the imaginary strings of a relationship…

    I think u are terrified to go deep and bring out all the awful feelings…fear…rejection…hurt…pain…

    I was like you….several months ago…doubting myself, ignoring my feelings and sure rationalizing…

    The only way I could see yet again clear, was to remove all contact with him….I feel sooo grateful for finally listening to my heart and doing the exercises…i recall struggling back and forth…asking for advice…really wanting to “keep” him on my horse on keep on riding…but for me, the damage was to great to that…keeping him on my horse…it was not honest to my feelings…it held on agenda to get him back somehow, there were expectations…which i knew it would backfire…

    The right decision has no agenda…it is always peaceful…

    Big warm hugs,

  300.  #300DE on May 24, 2011 at 10:28 pm


    then again, maybe u can do it…yet, u are the only one that can know that…:)

    Warm hugs,

  301.  #301DE on May 24, 2011 at 10:37 pm


    a few more thoughts…

    can you imagine yourself with him, having a committed life together?

    how does it feel? how does it look like? have you tried writing it down?

    Are there any obstacles/conditions that hold you back from creating this happy image with him? would you like anything changed about him (personality, physic…etc?)

  302.  #302Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    Elizabeth –

    in order to get to this “stuff” that is going on for you that triggers this feeling, you would be relying on intellect to provide an *insight*, right?

    No! In order to heal the stuff I sink down into the emotions in my body and breathe into the tight body parts while loving them! Riffing! Insights not necessary, but welcome. Intuition is different than intellect too…

    And I’m a very intellectual human. I am like a genius! I think my iq is probably throughout the roof.

    Really I don’t know what intellect is exactly.


    And, I think we work on ourselves as women in order to attract the masculine And good men that Are working on
    themselves at a level where they can do relationship.

    I expected that balancing genders would help me get along w men… But it leads to friendship! Polarity, male and female, Strong polarity is what keeps a relationship romantic and passionate and sexual.

    This is all stuff I’m learning as I experiment w Roris stuff.

    It still takes balance… In that a woman learns to use her masculine energy Not towards men, but towards her passions.

    Men have to too, learn to court, and use their feminine energy on their own time, not drawing in energy, or mothering, from women.

    Men work hard to try to turn us on, for example.


    Why am I getting into this convo which is intellectual?

    Maybe I was already in my head.

    I’m having a phone convo w a man, and it feels good, but I’m not getting too feelingy


    Also feeling dizzy

  303.  #303Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Does anyone know how we can feel our cervix for fertility tracking?

    I can barely reach my gspot,, let alone my cervix

    Am I supposed to push harder to try to get in there? Or.. ?

  304.  #304Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    The main reason for CDing is for THERAPY.

    It’s to practice tools with each man who triggers u’s in a different way.

    And to get used to having lots of men around us, break the habit of ‘overcommitting’ – becoming attached and loyal to one man who has not claimed us forever.

  305.  #305Daria on May 24, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    When we practice the tools with these men on dates, we evolve very quickly. We then start to draw in better men.

    Eventually we evolve so much that we draw in a man who can Do relationship with us. And such a man easily marries us.

  306.  #306Daria on May 25, 2011 at 12:18 am

    I feel humbled and overwhelmed. I am reviewing and just seeing how much I still have to practice…

    How I can create connection. W feeling messages really, all the time. W my parents… W men. And bypass defensiveness.

    Ouch my head hurts again 🙁

  307.  #307Tmizz on May 25, 2011 at 12:23 am

    Daria, I <3 what you said in #305

    so true! 🙂

  308.  #308Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 1:27 am

    DE – thank you for responding to me. I feel intrigued with what you say, though I’m not quite clear. Please could you elaborate on;

    “I sense Imaginary Relationship – ” I think u feel the imaginary strings of a relationship…

    – What do you mean?

    I think u are terrified to go deep and bring out all the awful feelings…fear…rejection…hurt…pain…

    – I don’t actually feel any of that right now. I feel good about myself and even good about him if I got to know him better.

    I did process all those feelings you are talking about when he went on vacation without me.

    I guess what I’m left with are all these ‘questions’. I don’t sense that he was/ has been trying to hurt me in any way.

    More like miscommunication/ misunderstanding and getting things crossed for some reason.

    I don’t know him well enough. I feel good with him – amazing in fact. I don’t feel like we got to the end of the road and now we’re done. I still feel curious about him at so many levels.

    I feel like he was there to help me heal all the stuff and so many things from my past. It was such a pleasure and me just coming round to it all at my own pace (albeit very slowly and with many errors – at least that’s what I think – or maybe not. Perhaps perfect in error).

    The day we talked about being together forever (committed relationship), it was the most magical experience of my life. We were both left feeling joy, elated and fulfilled. I felt so safe and cared for.

    Then the scary feelings came up and I turned to my masc energy and wanted to run things in the relationship. That’s when things started going downhill. Then I was in a mess of ‘fix it’ and sending him mixed signals.

    The feelings you are talking about above, I guess I can see in two areas;

    1) I feel afraid that he may think of me as a ‘lose woman’ (read whor3 in my mind) because I told him I wanted to keep my options open when he was offering me the relationship I wanted.

    I know, it’s my own stuff. Stuff to heal… but perhaps that is where you are sensing such feelings going on with me?

    2) I sense these feelings with the stuff I’m processing around my ‘job’ – an interview I was invited for, which was not what I applied for – so what you say really applies.

    I so want to have this area of my life works coz I feel appreciated and recognized for my talent and it gives me power to choose a man not from a needy place but confidence.

    I feel whole and complete like I can move on and make decisions about my future.

    I kinda feel stuck and deprived not having this part of my life working… then there’s the fear and rejection and shame/ guilt around it and in relation to a man wanting real intimacy with me.

    I guess right now I’ll just process. Taking care of me and using my masc/ fem energy to sort this out. I should know soon. Then I can move on and I’ll know more what I feel about HAman.

    Right now other men are asking me out on dates. So I’m accepting and will practice tools and see what comes of it and how I feel.

    I do actually feel good about not rushing into anything and just taking things one babystep at a time.

    It feels good when men call me to ask me out on dates. And it does feel good having more than one – whether practice, therapy or self-esteem raising.

    Even a gal with a high self-esteem needs a self-esteem boost every now and then.

    I want to get all my beautification done and change my hair 🙂

    This feels good to me.

    DE – I feel resistance to writing all that stuff in regards to HAman right now. Probably all the stuff I have going on. I feel better doing that part of the e-book not in relation to any man as the first time I did it to a man I was feeling hung up on and also trying to detach. So not my exact truth.

    Once I do that and move through all this in the next 2 or 3 weeks, I may consider what I feel for HAman.

    As for his birthday… It feels irrelevant in this moment since a man just asked me out on a date. I’ll think about it later when the day gets closer and I consider how I feel.

    What do you think?

    DE – thank you again for responding to me. I feel heard and cared for.


  309.  #309Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 4:03 am

    Any sirens out there?

    Quick one –

    Would it be okay to contact HAman re. biz? Or would that be too leaning forward?

    And no, I’m not trying to do anything clever to get his attention.

    This idea just rose up in me. If anything, I would try to avoid it for fear of whether it would make me look desperate, clingy and needy.

    Right now I feel unattached from him since the man who asked me out this morning. I feel desired and my self-esteem has taken a boost.

    In regards to HAman – I feel inspired working in my passion and making money more than I care what he thinks about me (ok I care a little, but I like the idea of cash).

    I’d feel bummed if I could not move this biz deal forward because I could not contact him.

    There no saying that anything will come of it, but again there is a real possibility that something could (money-wise that is).

    What do you think?

  310.  #310Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 4:07 am



    The constant or what feels like constant debate of CDing was wearing me out so I skim and skip now.

    I feel tired of it and wonder why be here. Unless its for the constant debate of such things.


  311.  #311Rosa on May 25, 2011 at 4:08 am

    Brenda, delighted to read about the job possibility..the planets are aligning 🙂

  312.  #312Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 4:11 am

    Being involved with a group of like-minded women who support one another rather than debate one another feels best for me.

    Skimming and skipping also feels good.

  313.  #313Rosa on May 25, 2011 at 4:11 am

    Read your post Ella about housemate …interesting
    He sounds a bit odd!
    All this emoting about other women
    Now getting a bit paranoid..hmmm
    He’s not bipolar? Drug user perhaps?

  314.  #314Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 4:12 am


    Good Morning, Rosa. I hope you are feeling superbly and recovering well!


  315.  #315RiverGirl on May 25, 2011 at 4:32 am

    From Pema Chodron

    “How We Get Hooked and Unhooked
    Shenpa is the urge, the hook, that triggers our habitual tendency to close down. We get hooked in that moment of tightening when we reach for relief. To get unhooked we begin by recognizing that moment of unease and learn to relax in that moment.”

  316.  #316RiverGirl on May 25, 2011 at 4:37 am

    Hi Sirens 🙂

    Rosa, thank you for your feedback on the free dating sites, I’ve come to the same conclusion, you get what you pay for! Think it might be time to take my profile down for a while and perhaps rewrite it and put up again in a couple of months. I think I’ve grown a lot since I wrote it and it feels old to me now.

  317.  #317Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 4:46 am

    Need a response to 309, please?

    i’ve drafted the email bcc’d to some of my clients including HAman.

    I feel afraid and leaning forward-ish. Perhaps I should just take him off the list.

    I don’t want him to think I’m trying to reach out.

    The item is a really special one….

    Not sure?

  318.  #318RiverGirl on May 25, 2011 at 4:56 am

    Queenbee is there any urgency with this business idea?
    Can you sit with it a while longer, until you don’t care how it will appear to him? (except for wanting the business idea to go ahead..nothing wrong with wanting that but it would be a masculine energy/career thing to do.)

  319.  #319Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 5:02 am

    Lillybelle – I feel shamed, judged and offended reading 310 and 312.

    You may experience it as a ‘debate’ and great, skim and skip.

    When I skim and skip, I feel no need for any further comment on my part. That’s being authentic.

    The ‘wearing down’ you feel is your own trigger.

    It may not be important to you, but it is important to some of us, also SIrens, to express our fears, concerns and look for clarity in a subject that you may feel comfortable with, but not everyone is.

    That’s a reality.

    I don’t want to be told that I can’t be here because I share different concerns.

    That feels bad to me. If this is an exclusive vacuum, then I too don’t want to be here.

    Rosa and Daria were kind enough to say what is CLEAR for them on CDing, which made a hella difference in the discussion.

    If you have some clarity to bring to the discussion, please do?

    If there is nothing, thank you for sharing.

  320.  #320Meemee on May 25, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Loneplum 275
    I have come across both western and eastern writers writing about the cultural community practices which are seen as violent by the others. For example there is a collection of essays called Transcultural Bodies: Female Genital Cutting in Global Context. Piscataway, NJ: Rutgers University Press, 2007. In this book the different authors share very varied ideas about the pracice. I am not sure about the nationality of the authors. But my assumption is that many of them come from western academia.

    I am just posting a review of that book which I found online. Personally speaking I find such narratives very perplexing because though I acknowledge cultural relativism, I am not a great fan of it when it comes to individual pain/pleasure.
    Here is the review:

    Ylva Hernlund and Bettina Shell-Duncan, the editorial team from the University of Washington that produced the excellent book Female “Circumcision” in Africa: Culture, Controversy, and Change (Lynne Rienner Publishing, 2000) have done it again. Transcultural Bodies marginally even surpasses their earlier compilation in originality, quality and page-turning interest. The book will come as a profound shock to those in the grip of the common Anglophone assumption that female genital cutting is so horrible and injurious that it cannot possibly be compared with male circumcision, that harmless surgical intervention on baby boys that has nearly as many marvelous health benefits as the philosopher’s stone. On the contrary, the contributors to this book argue forcefully that male and female genital cutting have very similar cultural rationales and physiological outcomes.

    The leading article by the two editors, surveying female genital cutting (FGC) as it relates to culture and rights, starts us off with a bang. In a far-ranging article they update us on important events and scholarship during the seven years since their first book and provide overviews each of the essays in this volume. They remark that “the debate between universalism and relativism in the field of human rights has long been premised on a fixed conception of both culture and rights.” In fact, as the authors show, both culture and human rights are continuously evolving and undergoing redefinition. The editors also contest the popular notion that human rights is a Western construct imposed by First World countries on the rest of the world, arguing that human rights has relevance and robustness to all humanity. They further argue that “a human rights culture” has become a central aspect of global culture and that cultural relativism should not be taken too far or allowed to become an excuse for abuse. But neither should human rights be allowed to privilege one culture over another, and the editors question whether FGC is best approached as a human rights issue. Support for this doubt may be found in the fact that the vilification of a practice that can follow its labeling as a human rights violation can impede or halt scholarly inquiry, as Carla Makhlouf Obermeyer shows when identifying the scarcity of medically objective inquiry into its side effects.

    Hernlund and Shell-Duncan draw attention to the irony and double standards inherent in the fact that a simple prick to the clitoris is probably illegal under United States law while “much more invasive procedures” on males are entirely legal and socially accepted. They devote a full page to a judicious survey of the critics of American circumcision practices, singling out the much-published pediatrician Dr. Robert Van Howe repeatedly – though regrettably getting his name wrong. Next they examine the greatly expanded interest since their last book in “designer vaginas,” cosmetic operations that women in the developed world women are having performed, usually because they want their genitals to look like those of desired models in pornography and or in the belief that the alteration will enhance the sexual experience. The authors analyze in depth the consequent ironies and double standards. Toward the end of the article, male circumcision is mentioned again, when it is noted that in 1975, after the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a statement that there were “no health benefits whatsoever” in routine infant circumcision, there were no moves to outlaw the practice. Instead, “deep-seated religious, aesthetic, and cultural norms” were allowed to influence the decision to take “an educational approach” instead.

    Following the editors’ introduction, Janice Boddy contributes a perceptive analysis of the FGC controversy in cultural perspective. “Much popular writing on female circumcision is polemical, preachy, advocacy driven, and endlessly self-referential,” she writes. “It is the appeal to social evolutionary thought in all its arrogant certainty that is the most troubling feature of FGM texts.” By this she refers to the common conviction that eventually those unsophisticated Africans will overcome their dark, ignorant ways and adopt enlightened Western approaches. According to this bromide, “African women are mired in culture; ‘we’ hold the light of truth.” Boddy wonders why there is “no outrage remotely parallel to that which leads some women to insist that circumcised women are entirely alienated from the essence of the female personality? Is it because these excisions are performed on boys, and only girls and women figure as victims in our cultural lexicon?”

    Next L. Amede Obiora contributes a vibrant analysis of Ousmane Sembene’s film about FGC, Moolaade. She argues that “Women give in to [FGC] presumably to gain something else for their lives, and there are substantial trade-offs.” Fascinatingly, she later observes that “the commonplace reification of culture as the prime site and source of gender oppression exhausts its usefulness at some point, and the denigration of culture implicit in such representations becomes all the more wrongheaded insofar as it obscures the attributes of culture that can catalyze desirable change.”

    The Norwegian anthropologist Aud Talle follows with a study of “the anthropology of a difficult issue” in which she reaches heights of poetic eloquence in describing the plight of Somali émigré women in London. “In the streets of London they are not ‘in the world’ with a perfect body as they were on the savannah in Somalia. Now they wander forward as ‘lacks’—mutilated souls in mutilated bodies. They are signs of a story they have not written themselves; in fact, their bodies have become sites of a worldwide discourse on morality.”

    Sara Johnsdotter examines attitudes to FGC held by Somali men and women now living in Sweden. The threat of action by Somali authorities, combined with social disapproval of FGC (as opposed to its endorsement in Somalia) and journalistic sensationalism, lead to virtually all Somalis living in Sweden opposing FGC. Johnsdotter notes that “an implicit and sometimes explicit moral discourse [is] attached to the issue of female circumcision,” rendering reasoned discussion very difficult, since “Almost anything about the horrifying consequences of these practices can be alleged in the public discourse without evidence to support it.” She remarks that a symbolic pricking to satisfy Somali cultural requirements removes no tissue and “is far less invasive than what is done to male infants at Swedish hospitals during male circumcision.” Thus, “In a strictly medical sense there is no reasonable motive to forbid pricking of girls’ genitalia while permitting male circumcision. The reason for allowing … male circumcision at hospitals while forbidding female symbolic sunnah circumcision is purely ideological.”

    Juliet Rogers follows with a trenchant critique of Australian legislation against FGC. Women are described as “mutilated” and “represented as objects to be managed.” In the passing of anti-FGC legislation in Victoria, “the authority of law [was represented] as essential to protect Australia from ‘barbarous practices’ and simultaneously constructed ‘others’ as barbaric and as ‘mutilated’ social agents who were not entitled to the rights of citizenship.” Like the other authors in this volume, Rogers points to feminism’s focus on the clitoris as problematic, and suggests that it is “the representation of the clitoris as a singularly universally understood and experienced entity that is precisely the problem.” An ironic aspect of the double standard in Australia is that while the Commonwealth health insurance scheme, Medicare, provides a rebate for circumcision of boys, it is specifically prohibited from covering any cutting procedures on the female genitals, no matter how old the owner. It has been pointed out that this restriction may breach the Sex Discrimination Act, which provides that each gender must receive equal treatment in the provision of Commonwealth benefits and services.

    Charles Piot checks in with a brief yet perceptive analysis of the Kasinga case, in which the United States granted political asylum to a Togolese woman on account of her alleged fear of FGC. Corinne A. Kratz next provides an in-depth review of both Kasinga and the other precedent-setting US asylum case based on fear of FGC, Abankwah. She demonstrates that both cases involved substantial fraud by immigrants whose main aim was to secure permanent residency in the USA! Kasinga was actually from a Togolese group that does not circumcise females, while the very name of “Abankwah”, as well as nearly everything else she said about herself, turned out to be fabricated. Nevertheless, in accordance with legal principles, her award of asylum still stands as good law and a precedent in the USA. Kratz wonders whether “political lobbying and media outrage short-circuit judicious reasoning?” Kratz’s analysis gives substance to the editors’ discussion of the sexist bias inherent in the fact that fear of circumcision is a ground for seeking asylum only by women; the assumption seems to be that males are expected to take what’s coming to them without complaint.

    Michelle C. Johnson contributes an interesting case study of the interactions of culture, religion and FGC among the Mandinga people of Guinea-Bissau and Mandinga immigrants living in Portugal. She shows that Mandinga women affirm what they see as “the fusion of ethnicity and Islam by inscribing it onto their bodies.” Mansura Dopico provides us with a study of the sexual experiences of the infibulated women of rural Eritrea and in Australia, demonstrating the great variety and unpredictability of their sexual responsiveness. Johnson argues that, contrary to common belief, “there is some evidence that removal of the clitoris cannot inhibit either arousal or orgasm.” And that “the relationship between FGC and lack of sexual satisfaction had been grossly exaggerated.”

    R. Elise B. Johansen writes about Somalis and infibulation in Norway. Her chapter relates to broader topics than FGC (such as the Somali construction of female virginity and the contrast between the Western tendency to fake orgasm and the Somali tendency to hide female sexual pleasure), and it is all the more fascinating for the breadth of her approach. She makes intriguing counterpositions of Western and Somali views on sexual matters and comments that “The practice of genital cutting itself suggests that inborn genital differences are not considered sufficient to constitute proper men and women.”

    Next comes the irrepressible iconoclast Fuambai Ahmadu, who told the story of her own circumcision during a visit from the US to her childhood home in Sierra Leone in the editors’ earlier collection. Her unusual status as an African-born, Western-educated academic on the topic of FGC who voluntarily returned to her homeland to be circumcised gives her a uniquely authoritative perspective on the huge cultural prejudices that constitute beams in the eye of the West. She suggests that “the potential psychosocial damage of negative FGM campaigns on teenage girls and women could be far worse than any impact of the physical act of cutting the clitoris.” She refuses to accept her definition by enlightened others as “mutilated,” forthrightly affirming that “I have not experienced any change, either elimination or reduction, in sexual response following my own initiation.”

    The best essay in the collection is left for last. Henrietta L. Moore contributes a magisterial and far-reaching meditation on culture, difference and power, gender and agency, drawing together all the other authors in an integration that transcends the FGC issue and embraces topics of concern to all humanity—culture, justice, gender, and understanding difference. “The West, it turns out, has culture just like everyone else,” she reports. “The very idea of a rooted, native culture was the product of a traveling, comparative Western gaze.” It is so obvious and yet so rarely mentioned that Africans in circumcising cultures “may have both positive and negative feelings toward female genital operations” – just like Americans with respect to male circumcision. Moore writes that “a curious resonance is established between Western discourses of liberated female sexuality and the relationship of the clitoris to sexual pleasure and agency and more ‘local’ male discourses about the importance of removing the clitoris in order to bring sexuality under the woman’s control as a means to ensure successful, socially reproductive sex.” She observes that the political asylum cases discussed in earlier chapters “relied to a significant extent on reifying and ossifying culture … What characterizes the globalized world is everyone thinks they know about culture and about the difference that cultural difference makes.” In fact, however, new “forms of hybridization, cosmopolitan consciousness, and emerging secularism … are everywhere accompanied by new forms of cultural fundamentalism, nationalism, and religious intolerance.”

    Regrettably, well over a score of typographical, grammatical and reference errors not present in Shell-Duncan’s and Hernlund’s earlier volume mar this production. I also spotted one substantive error that should have been caught and corrected by fact the checkers, concerning the organization of the (now renamed) Immigration and Naturalization Service. Such imperfections do not undermine the validity of the authors’ conclusions, though they do indicate a degree of laxness, or perhaps haste, that should have been avoided.

    Transcultural Bodies makes an important contribution to critical thinking about genital cutting, human rights, anthropology, feminism and culture, offering a broad-ranging plurality of perspectives and topics that is all too rare these days, yet remaining focused on the unifying topic of female genital cutting. It is so well-done that it transcends its seemingly narrow subject matter and (as Moore suggests) offers a broad and stimulating perspective on our increasingly globalised world.

  321.  #321Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 5:22 am

    Thanks RiverGirl – it is urgent. The item is not on the market and I have a couple days on it.

    I’m now thinking of how likely it is to go ahead and it would be 50/50 if I sent it, which is not too bad.

    I had to remove my other clients – not the right fit.

    Now I just have him bcc’d.

    Is there anything wrong with masc energy/ career thing?

    I can definitely feel the difference. But a nice commission sounds really good to me right now.

    What do you think?


  322.  #322RiverGirl on May 25, 2011 at 5:33 am


    Nothing at all wrong with using masculine energy if it is for non relationship pursuits. Like Rori said in the post above, “Give your inner “boy” a task that’s meaningful, complex and will get RESULTS!”

    The thing is to just make sure you have no attachment to any relationship outcome with HAman.
    Is it possible that you are using the business idea to renew contact with him. Secretly hoping for something (even just a little bit). If you are happy with any outcome, then I say go for it!

  323.  #323Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 5:35 am

    #309 Queenbee,

    When it comes to contact with HAman, perhaps your guide might be how attached you are to the outcome? That is, consider how you would feel if he responded bruskly, or not at all …?

  324.  #324Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 5:37 am

    I see RiverGirl and I were thinking (and writing) at the same time. 🙂

  325.  #325Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 5:41 am

    #297 DE,

    “~Until you are able to See yourself living the life that you truly want, it will be difficult for you to create it~ Katherine Woodward Thomas”

    I really like that quote. It describes what I am thinking about now: trying to figure out and visualize the relationship *I* want.

    Thanks for sharing that. 🙂

  326.  #326RiverGirl on May 25, 2011 at 5:45 am

    @ 324
    Thinking AND writing! Now that is multitasking if ever I saw it! 🙂

  327.  #327Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 5:47 am

    RE 319 Queenbee I feel offended and shut down reading your comments to Lilybelle about her posts numbers 310 and 312 so I read what was written there. I sense there that Lilybelle was practicing sharing her authentic feelings, which is one of the things we do here. I don’t see where she says anything is not important or where she is telling anyone not to be here. I am now wondering if there are some triggers there that are being projected. I remember Lilybelle being a very hurt individual when she came here and have experienced her growth and practicing Rori’s tools. It feels a bit off to me to suggest that expressing her feelings are not welcome and has me questioning whether Rori’s tools will ultimately work with men if we do not allow it to work here with each other. I respect your views about discussing circular dating, seeking for clarity and being authentic and I would like to feel the same level of respect for all here. I would not like to see this place be an exclusive vacuum to only those who are willing to discuss or debate a topic or to those who want to express their feelings. However, I understand Rori’s comments in the past as request us to express our feelings and support each other. Unless I am misguided here but I see Lilybelle’s comments as expressing feelings in the two comments you cited and am wondering why you feel told about what to discuss or that this is an exclusive vaccum.

  328.  #328Meemee on May 25, 2011 at 5:47 am

    Janjune 292
    Its my pleasure to share with you whatever little I know.
    You asked about the redefinition of violence.
    Well. Firstly its more comlex than what I am going to explain but I will try and explain such arguements in my capacity. Such studies come from erstwhile colonized countries. So during the period of colonization European anthropologists went and studied the cultures and communities in the colonies. And many practices they found in the communities had explicit violence. So they considered it as anti human and regarded these communities and their practices as barbarious. Such ideas about those communities became dominant with the works of the colonial anthropologists.

    But in the post-colonial period, these countries and communities started writing their own cultural histories. Earlier it was done by the outsiders who were ruling them. So when these communities started writing against the dominant ideas about their practices they started defining their culture, experience within their cultures and also what certain trems like “violence” and “anti human” means in their specific cultures.

    So came a counter narrative to the already existing narratives produced by colonial/western anthropologists. What these new accounts tried to say is this: western ideas of rights, humanity,violence and many other concepts come from christianity and western legal systems. There are other cultures which see life as different and to them meaning of rights and humanity and violence might differ. So in order to understand a practice, one should not superimpose western ideas on other cultures.

    An example I am familiar with is the “sati” practice in 19th Century India. Sati is a pracice in which a wife is thrown into the funeral pyre of her husband. Sometimes women did it out of their choice, sometimes they were thrown forcefully into the fire. When the british rulers saw this custom, they saw it as an extremely violent practice. And they banned sati. Recent studies on Sati shows what it meant for the communities who practiced Sati. In such communities the idea of “individual” freedom (which they argue, is an essentially western concept) was not in fashion. Also many a time a community’s religious texts prescribed certain customs. So the people practiced it. And we never know when a woman happily jumps into fire or when she is forced. So, these studies argued, labelling this practice as violent and banning it was incorrect. Because it is the ethics that defines what is violent and what is not violent- and ethics differs from culture to culture, from community to community.

    So is the case with many other practices- now the legal systems are trying place weight on the customs and practices of indegenous communities when certain cases are taken to the court. What is legally violent in one culture can only be a norm in other cultures.

    **** “But, even then, I just want to say that it is becoming a new stream in academia to emphasise the cultural specificity of many many practices that are explicity violent to women.”
    does this mean that mainstream universities are acknowledging, studying explicit violence against women, culture by culture?***

    No. that is not what it means. It means universities are now studying the customs and practices of communities in its context. They palce a heavy weight on what a practice means to a particular community without blindly labelling it as violent or anti-human.

    I am simpifying the arguement here. Cultural Specificity arguement is more complex. And this is not a mere division between east vs west. Even in west, if we look at the case of homosexuality it becomes evident. homosexuality was considered as sin by the church years ago. But if we look at the greeak and roman cultures, we can see that in the ancient times homosexuality was prevalent and was not considered as sin. It was a means through which people celebrated their bodies.

    PS: I must say that though such studies perplex me a lot, I could always see the historical weight of such arguements. Also no one from “cultural specificity school” would say that child molestation is not violence. It is violence, universally.Period. But when it comes to some practices that carry a baggage of culture and cultural sanction, they say, it is difficut to define violence legally or otherwise.

    Janjune, I am not sure if I cleared your doubts.
    Between I was travelling a lot these days and didnt have internert access many a time. But now i am back to my city and am planning to come to this blog regularly whenever I have internet access
    I really missed all of you when I was away


  329.  #329Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 5:53 am

    RE 296 DE thanks for sharing that I feel really supported with those thoughts and feelings and though it leaves me with a bit of fear and shakiness in my belly I resonate with it. I feel fear accepting that reality because I see in front of me many examples of couples who seemingly selected each other using the intellect. However, I know I will not feel happy if the heart is not involved. Thanks again.

  330.  #330Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:01 am

    Wow Meemee thanks for sharing your knowledge. I feel very enlightened by it. Can I invite you also to practice feeling messages there too when you share you views on the facts as in ” I must say that I feel perplexed or a lot of fear about such studies”. Just a suggestion to kind of help you keep focussed on sharing and opening your heart. I love to read your writing and feel honored to have your acquaintance.

  331.  #331Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 6:07 am

    The discussions about CD’ing I’ve read here over the last several weeks have given me a better understanding and appreciation of the benefits of it. I’m a little surprised that some take these discussions so negatively. If some women question the desirability to CD for themselves why/how should that effect those who enjoy it?

    The comments about this blog being a place for “likeminded people” is also a bit disconcerting. Feels like being told one isn’t welcome unless they believe EXACTLY like everyone else. We are all different people. We have different histories. And our feelings on any subject are not going to be identical. What is wrong with that?

    I enjoy reading RR’s philosophies and how she has translated them into tools. I don’t have the dating/communication issues that many here are struggling with – I worked those out long ago. What I want to do is try to define the kind of relationship I want, and have better ways of resolving conflict when it occurs within a partnership. Because there are women here who actually are in partnerships (or have been) I hope to learn some useful ideas.

  332.  #332Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:10 am

    RE 284 Elizabeth you might see it as feisty but makes a lot of sense to me and helps me to understand how you think around his concepts. I feel though that not all women he deals with has the level of intelligence or education that you might have or others and I can only guess that he might use oversimplification to 1) get his products sold 2) to get a level of understanding that all can embrace. He does come across as using psychobabble sometimes to me and have me wondering how much psych studies he must have done. That however feels like I am focussing on judging what he presents so I just look for the things that resonate and makes sense to me. Things that I can use in real life or lessons that I can look for in real life to change how I behave or understand people I am dealing with. I enjoy the way you break down his stuff though and appreciate you bouncing his ideas off with me. Doing it alone feels like operating in a vaccumm. Thanks again.

  333.  #333Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:25 am

    Lilybelle says “Being involved with a group of like-minded women who support one another rather than debate one another feels best for me.”

    Lily T says “The comments about this blog being a place for “likeminded people” is also a bit disconcerting. Feels like being told one isn’t welcome unless they believe EXACTLY like everyone”. I am wondering if this frame of thinking can be flipped to something positive.

    Reading the two comments I remember Rori suggesting in an interview with CCarter that it might be innocuous to us but we women sometimes communicate in way that tells men their thinking is flawed and that they need to be fixed. I also remember hearing that men experience our debates as arguments that drag the relationship down and as competing with them. I also remember a coach, maybe Gay Hendricks, suggesting that sometimes our need for being right overrides everything else including our need to be happy. Hhhhmm I am now wondering how we can incorporate all that we have been learning here to flip this into a situation that could support both views as being valid or right. As Rori puts it, create a third way that supports. I also remember Dr. Paul suggesting that a right/wrong scenario creates a win/lose scenario that could leave someone feeling insignificant and that the mature thing to do is to create a win/win. So as Katherine Scott suggests could be it bring resolution to find out here who is feeling insignificant and how can it be resolved? hhhmmm

  334.  #334Kimberly on May 25, 2011 at 6:32 am

    So I tried leaning back last night at dinner with two friends and I discovered that I felt extremely uncomfortable and had difficulty maintaining eye contact when talking. I felt nervous when there was silence in the conversation and I tried to tell my feelings, but I’m not sure they were phrased as feeling messages and I felt vulnerable afterwards.

    I also watched that movie Duty dating last night and wish it was that easy for me.

    Brenda, I don’t own Modern Siren, yet… gotta save up 🙂

    Also, I worry about allowing men to do things for me. I have a guy friend that did a favor for one of my female friends and then she started dating someone else and he got mad/hurt about how she could do that when he did this big favor for her. I heard him offer to do the favor and her gracious acceptance of it and then he gets upset and feels used. I am rarely able to allow men to help me and I feel that I keep such strict boundaries in my relationships that I am keeping people separate from me. I am terrified of sending the “wrong” message when the truth is that most of the time I have no idea what message I want to send and so I send no message at all.
    Thanks for listening.

  335.  #335Meemee on May 25, 2011 at 6:35 am

    Femwoman 330
    That was a brilliant suggestion!
    In fact I was feeling a little reluctant to share those arguements here because I have my own fears and confusions. So I had to dilute it. But what you said is so true. Talking about even that in feeling messages will help me open up more
    Thanks thanks thanks

  336.  #336Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 6:37 am


    Hi FW.

    I don’t see anyone here debating CD’ing as “wrong”. (With the exception perhaps of EMK when it came to the idea of CD’ing in a relationship that had been exclusive.)

    I just see it as a useful tool – but one that might not be the best tool for every situation.

  337.  #337Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:39 am

    RE 334 Kimberly reading that brought back memories from another coach who suggests “get clear on what you want adn who you are” before entering into relationships.

  338.  #338Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 6:42 am

    RE: 327 – thanks FW. You said it very well “However, I understand Rori’s comments in the past as request us to express our feelings and support each other”.

    That is exactly it. Perhaps, I should have said – “I feel unsupported”.

    #331 – Thank you Lily-T. It feels great reading this and it is the point. We are all different and at different stages.

    Thank you for sharing your experience. It’s very helpful.


  339.  #339Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:44 am

    Lily T I was not suggesting that. I believe the idea of “debating” anything at all is what the issue is or how I processed Lilybelle’s comment. Many people experience debating as draining. I am going through that now with my 12 turning 13 year old son. All of a sudden he is debating everything and everyone. I think she was expressing/sharing her feelings about “debating” period. I am curious how she could have framed it so no one interpreted it as “being told”.

  340.  #340DE on May 25, 2011 at 6:46 am

    FW #329:

    You are welcome 🙂

    I have to say I feel pleasantly surprised noticing your transformation towards a more softer, warmer, fluid self-expression…

    It feels very good to read your posts 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  341.  #341Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:46 am

    RE 335 You are welcome Meemee. Anything to help support my sister and in so doing, support myself.

  342.  #342Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:47 am

    RE 340 DE I have found that tapping has done wonders for me. That interview that Rori sent with Susan Quinn was transformational. I keep doing it.

  343.  #343DE on May 25, 2011 at 6:47 am

    Lily T #325:

    I feel glad you were inspired by it!!! I felt inspired as well 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  344.  #344Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 6:48 am

    I suspected my comments would be viewed as they were. Not surprising at all.

    I will not apologize as these are MY feelings and however they are perceived is the readers thought process, not mine and has no bearing on whether I am “triggered” as was implied.

    However, being told how I feel (triggered) is offensive and not acceptable, as stated by Queenbee response. There were also, accusations of me telling people to not be here but there is not one word in those posts that say that. If I had felt that, I would have said so.

    Perhaps we should practice reading things as they are written, rather than placing a twist on what the reader *thinks* the poster meant.

    I do feel mildly irritated and even a bit amused having read all of this but at the end of the day, I know that I did not purposely set out to hurt anyones feelings and can sleep well knowing that I was and continue to be an authentic, practicing Siren.


  345.  #345Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 6:51 am

    327: FW

    Thank you!

    I love you.


  346.  #346DE on May 25, 2011 at 6:58 am

    Lily T:

    U said :”I just see it as a useful tool – but one that might not be the best tool for every situation.”

    Yes, indeed… CDing means a lot of things to me…

    For example, I absolutely didn’t feel good about dating men for a few months…I deeply needed the break…to realign my core beliefs…

    Yet, just because I took a real break from going out on dates…I still CD for me…go out with friends, talk, flirt, express with men and women…

    So, yes, I feel a bit more “liberal” about when and how it should be used…the bottom line to me is to notice myself at all times…with everyone…feel my inner self…express (to myself even)…and then act…

    Warm hugs,

  347.  #347Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 6:59 am

    RE 344 I feel happy that you provided that clarification. The situation reminds me of a book I read where the author suggests that we practice reflecting back to our listener what we hear when they communicate until both the communicator and the listener are on the same page. He used an example of a man who was filing for a divorce. He lawyer tried many different things to understand why he was filing. One of is comments were “so you are filing a suit against your wife”. His response “yes, I have one of those, I wear it to church on Sundays.”. What I learnt from that is to appreciate that people live in different worlds and we process our experiences different even though it might be the same experience. Many times we communicate in a way that we think is effective communication but the other person does not hear it the way we intended. Using openended questions and reflecting back and forth what we hear, sometimes clear subtle misunderstandings and create for better relationships, rather that taking it that people’s intention were to hurt rather than heal.

  348.  #348DE on May 25, 2011 at 7:04 am


    Yes, I so agree…I began using EFT several months ago….I listened and practiced the Tapping sessions at the Soulmate Summit and then the Tapping Summit (from what I recall)…

    Now, I work on the material from Carol Look – I connected with her program pretty well…

    I noticed however, resistance to do the work …be consistent to clearing the negative energy within me…even though I know how very well and I have the tools…I think part of me is still “addicted” to the feeling of nostalgia…and “loves” getting sucked into it sometimes…baby steps 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  349.  #349Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 7:06 am

    RE 331 Subtle difference I suspect here is that Lily T experienced it as a “discussion” Lilybelle experienced it as a “debate”. In a relationship with a man some of these subtle differences indicate for me whether we are a match or not. Sometimes whether a need is being met or not. Apparently both people have different needs so the experience was different for each. Personally I found it inspiring and it really got me thinking and provided some clarity for me. But hey if someone did not like the experience she is free to express how she feels about it.

  350.  #350Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 7:08 am

    #338 Queenbee,
    And I thank you, it feels good someone “gets me”, where I’m coming from. 🙂

    #339 FW,

    See that’s the thing, I’m not feeling these discussions surrounding circular dating as “debates”. Rather they are dialogues between individuals, that for some reason, others who are reading are putting their own negative interpretations upon.

    I skim quite a bit on this blog when dialogues (or monologues) don’t interest me. And I don’t feel the need to comment upon what I skim. Why bother?

  351.  #351Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 7:10 am

    RE 348 I did not do the tapping during the Summit. I felt overwhelmed at the time and did feel resistance to doing it. I should go back now that you have reminded me to see if they are still available for use.

  352.  #352Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 7:28 am

    Hello DE.

    When I read Rori’s description of CD’ing generally: being warm and open to every man, woman, and child – I realized it was something I’d been doing for decades. I just called it “being friendly” – lol.

    There were a few times when I was 18, and in my early 20’s that I might have benefitted from dating more than one man at a time – I did have the tendency to get attached too quickly, and I didn’t recognize when a man was really “not that into me” – much to my disappointment. But these things come with experience, with practice which is something RR stresses about CD’ing – it’s practice.

    And as far as taking a break from dating goes, I think it’s possible that we may be more open to meeting a man who suits us when we are not viewing dating as some kind of chore. Some women here have written about finding CD’ing, online dating, draining. I can see how that might be. Perhaps not CD’ing in the actual dating sense, and just enjoying a social life without such pressure (as you have done) may be the better tool for the situation.

    What do you think?

  353.  #353Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 7:36 am

    RE 350 Lily T ” others who are reading are putting their own negative interpretations upon” I see it as expressing a feeling of it being something. The way it was expressed communicated to me how she felt. I am now wondering if it is depending on the side of our brain that we are coming from if we experience the word “feel” as “think”? Is that the reason why some men interpret us expressing our feelings as drama or something they don’t want to hear so they can’t step up? What do you think? If another female expresses using the word feeling that does not even seem to register with us I find it interesting that we expect it to register with our guys who mostly avoid feelings.

  354.  #354Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 7:37 am

    I feel drained by what I perceive as debate energy here too.

    I’ve been feeling very uninspired to comment for that reason.

    I feel bored. It feels very draining to me.

  355.  #355Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 7:50 am

    RE 354 LG thanks for sharing that. I have been a debater in most of my relationships and was wondering why sometimes people seemed to be turned off or wanting to run away. Now I know I should mostly stick to feelings that will magnetize people towards me and that I can walk away when I feel drained or just drop it and choose something else. Really enlightening for me.

  356.  #356Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 7:50 am

    Overall though I feel happy.

    I feel really happy with my relationship. I feel happy with it’s growth and evolution. I feel loved by him.

    I also feel really happy about the LOA work I have been studying. It’s making more and more sense to me.

    I feel content with my life.

    Of course there will always be things I want. Yet I feel happy with what is right now too.

  357.  #357Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 7:57 am

    FW: Thanks for sharing that.

    I resonate with what you have mentioned before about the need to be right. I can see that I have a tendency to do that.

    I want to choose happiness over being right.

    That feels very honoring of myself.


  358.  #358Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 7:59 am

    #353 FW

    Hmm, lot’s of stuff in that short post – 🙂

    First of all, the partners I’ve had did not mostly avoid feelings. I probably chose them for that because I’ve found myself bored with “strong, silent” type men. Also, I’m not so sure the words “feel” and “think” are not always the same thing. I’m inclined to believe with all feel something and then frame it into a thought. Form of communication – otherwise we would just grunt, or throw things. lol.

    I do think some men may classify some things women say as “drama” because they don’t want to hear it. Either they aren’t interested, or they don’t want to have to try and fix it. Particularly is it is something they may have “done wrong” and would prefer it to be unacknolwdeged and go away.

    When either a man or woman says he/she “feels” something I understand that to be true. But because it has been expressed verbally, it has undergone the process of “thought” as well.

  359.  #359Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 8:02 am

    302 Daria

    Thank you, I agree with you. very nicely said. 🙂

    don’t misunderstand, though…
    I love getting feeling-y! I do it a lot in RL, including in my work with clients, doing bodywork and energy work. I hardly *think* about what I am doing at all. My hands know what to do. I am very much in my body.

    I certainly love to stay predominately in my feminine, and prefer the man to stay in his masculine in a significant partnership, plus I am having the time of my life practicing the tools of receving and being open and vulnerable, as I go about my day. It’s such a blast. It feels like deep relaxation to me, taking down defenses.

    I know I get intellectual in my head a lot on here, because I like to write essays about things that relate to all of this.

    I do support everyone on here using the tools in the way Rori intends them to be used and appreciate everyone’s sharings.

    I don’t understand what is wrong with debate. It’s not meant to be adversarial, we are all exploring practicing, learning, growing, and hopefully looking at things from a 360 degree view, and maybe someone says something I hadn’t been aware of before that makes a lot of sense.



  360.  #360Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 8:06 am


    Yes, even feelings, a womans true feelings are currently up for “discussion” and are being misconstrued by readers. I thought we were encouraged to post our feelings and have it be a safe place. This morning has proved to be quite the opposite. My posts feel twisted and manipulated to benefit the readers point of view.

    I now feel disheartened and was wondering the very same thing about how many men perceive women to be all drama. I understand it.

    It further confirms why I have always preferred and had more male friends than female.

    LG~ I have been missing you here and I will connect with you elsewhere. 🙂


  361.  #361Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 8:11 am


    “I don’t understand what is wrong with debate. It’s not meant to be adversarial, we are all exploring practicing, learning, growing, and hopefully looking at things from a 360 degree view, and maybe someone says something I hadn’t been aware of before that makes a lot of sense.”

    For me, I feel uncomfortable with what I perceive as debate here because that isn’t Rori’s expressed purpose for the blog. She has said many times that this isn’t the place for that.

    She wants it to be a place for us to practice using feeling messages and working through triggers, and discussing the tools.

    I feel vulnerable when I am trying to stick to that and some people are debating.

  362.  #362Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Lillybelle: I feel excited to connect with you here or there <3

  363.  #363Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 8:14 am

    #322, #323 – Rivergirl, Lily-T – thank you for responding.

    No, I don’t have any attachment to outcome etc. I’m not concerned about him. What I feel concerned about is me. It does feel leaning forward and I don’t want to feel humiliated after.

    On the other hand, it is a worthy item I have and he is a good person to know about it.

    The problem here is that I want more power in my finances yet I can’t move on this.

    I’ve been here before – where I can’t communicate with him for sh1t and I feel stuck and closed off.

    Feeling low self-esteem….

    I don’t feel safe leaning forward to a man I have feelings for who is not contacting me.

    I feel helpless and powerless.

    I see my pattern – I feel too ashamed to allow him to see my ‘ugly’ parts. I don’t want him to see me as weak and take advantage/ abuse me like my ex did.

    So I hide. Yet, he could be the most caring man who could be there for me.

    I wish I could invite him for his lessons with me, which he always wanted – but I feel afraid and powerless and judgmental to myself – like he may not want to be around me.

    Although I feel totally comfortable for him to pay me now….

    Finally crying… I’ve been feeling these tears welling up for weeks…

    I want to take babysteps to heal this.

    What do you think I should do?

    I could
    – open up and share with him what I’m feeling
    – do nothing except tools
    – take care of myself and sort out my problems on my own, forget about what I feel for him
    – paint
    – write FMs and see how I feel about communicating with him first?

    I don’t want to communicate with him first. I did it once before, he was gracious as always. Then said smth about ‘he was giving me time’, which I had no idea about. Wasn’t sure I needed it… or what he meant.

    so, I don’t know. I sense fear…

    Sirens, please help?

    Thank you!


  364.  #364Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 8:15 am

    What exactly, is being debated?

  365.  #365Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 8:15 am

    358. Lily T.

    “I’m not so sure the words “feel” and “think” are not always the same thing. I’m inclined to believe with all feel something and then frame it into a thought. Form of communication – otherwise we would just grunt, or throw things. lol.”

    OMG….that struck me so funny! Thanks for the laugh this morning! and yes, I agree that feelings/emotions are not separate from concepts, which is mostly what intellect is. In order to give a feeling a label, thought comes into play.

    “I do think some men may classify some things women say as “drama” because they don’t want to hear it. Either they aren’t interested, or they don’t want to have to try and fix it. Particularly is it is something they may have “done wrong” and would prefer it to be unacknolwdeged and go away.”


    “When either a man or woman says he/she “feels” something I understand that to be true. But because it has been expressed verbally, it has undergone the process of “thought” as well.”

    Feelings and the verbal expression of them may be what is true for the person, but it doesn’t always mean it is the truth with capital T, or that it originates from purity of heart and mind. That’s what my intention/goal is more than anything else. To be pure in heart and mind.


  366.  #366JennS on May 25, 2011 at 8:20 am

    I understand what you wrote.. yes, I need to be with the feelings and see that it is enough..
    I am feeling so angry right now because I am in the not knowing and feel like I was duped, lied to, not told the truth.. you name it..
    What do I miss..
    Everything.. I miss the ease and zen feeling of being together, I miss the intimacy..the patterns.. the getting togather late.. the sleeping together.. the connection.. when it was there..
    I know it was hot and cold.. here and there.. but I just don’t understand the whole.”I feel guilty” excuse.. I feel defeated and it feels so hard to accept that he isn’t even thinking about me?? or not wanting that intimacy again? ..
    Geez.. today is a hard day.. I am using every RR tool possible to just feel good and turn away and let go.. but it is not easy when I feel like I have been brushed aside and not missed. I feel paranoid with people who know him.. and feel like a big trick has been played on me.. and I am the only one who doesn’t know the truth.. is he with someone else? why so quickly a break? how could someone just be so comfortable.. see someone everyweek a few times and then .. oh sorry.. need a break.. I feel incomplete and so unsettled.. I hate this feeling and clearly today, it is on high alert..LOL

  367.  #367Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 8:21 am

    #365 Elizabeth,

    Put another way – you want to say what you mean? 😉

  368.  #368Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 8:22 am

    361 LG

    Hi LG, it alway feels great to hear from you!

    “For me, I feel uncomfortable with what I perceive as debate here because that isn’t Rori’s expressed purpose for the blog. She has said many times that this isn’t the place for that.”

    I would like it so much if you could give me an example of what you perceive as debate here on the blog.

    “She wants it to be a place for us to practice using feeling messages and working through triggers, and discussing the tools.”

    I am not really seeing where discussing the tools and working through triggers would have to exclude working through differences of opinion (debate). Can you help me to see more clearly what you mean?

    “I feel vulnerable when I am trying to stick to that and some people are debating.”

    The way I understand it, vulnerability is a good thing. what do you think?



  369.  #369Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 8:30 am

    I have a belief that there is too much emphasis here on the blog, on judging and being judged. I’m like, why don’t we just let them cancel each other out. When a person becomes totally responsible for their own feelings, they will not take things personally, even if they feel judged. Just go straight to discerning for themselves whether they want to get into a deep relationship with someone, based on their issues. For me, I will never again get involved with someone who is not consciously working on themselves to transform, and supporting the transformation of everyone around them, like janjune and I were dialoguing about. I don’t want to be drawn into their unconscious suffering. I can be compassionate, but they have to help themselves. We come through the birth canal alone and caskets are built for one.


  370.  #370Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 8:31 am

    RE 366 JennS is it possible to identify where in your body the feeling of anger is trapped and maybe tapp on it?

  371.  #371Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 8:38 am


    I don’t know your history with HAman. How long did you date? How long has it been since last contact? You wrote he wanted to give you time? Was there anything more than that? Did you part on bad terms? Or vague terms?

    Sorry for all the questions, but I think they may factor into whether/how you might contact him.

    I feel sad that you worry about being humiliated. That seems to indicate attachment to outcome, which would also factor into the decision to contact him.

    What do you think?

  372.  #372Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 8:40 am


    Hi! I feel your unrest at being so unsettled about everything, and the Attack of the Negative Voices, and the paranoia and all.

    Can you please read #272 by Loneplum to Kaitlyn,
    and her other offerings by Pat Allen on the archetypes. It might help you to make more sense of what is happening and give you some real comfort today.

    If I were you I’d make an effort to get out there and CD other men right away!




  373.  #373Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Have to really process this concept and get them in to be able to practice them:-

    Words – just like my Choose Your Words line in my Rori Raye Mantra – work.
    Changing our old patterns of the way we feel, what we think and the way we ARE with men can start so easily with saying the right WORDS
    The words are an OUTER GAME thing.
    I WANT you to be BOLD!
    I want you to speak the truth.
    And yet – I want you to do it in a certain way that’s all about you – and zero about him or anyone else.
    I want to focus on the language and mindset around ANYTHING – no matter HOW horrible it was or is that will work best to HEAL
    SPEAK in words of only yourself.
    I want you to simply express that anger out because that propulsion of emotion is what you FEEL!

  374.  #374Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 8:57 am

    RE: 344 – Lilybelle – Here is your comment from 312 “I feel tired of it and wonder why be here.”

    – Perhaps you were talking about yourself not being here? It can be read both ways.

    I feel curious about this,

    You say:
    “I suspected my comments would be viewed as they were.”

    then this:
    “I know that I did not purposely set out to hurt anyones feelings…”

    It’s good to know you did not set out to hurt anyone – thanks for that. Tweaking for prudence and compassion may be a worthwhile endeavour.

    #353 – FW, I totally agree with you on this. I’ve had enough experience with my man to realize it doesn’t work to just blurt out whatever… that’s why Rori says ‘Choose your words’ – not everything, not EVERY feeling needs to be expressed.

    I try to reconsider especially where I have foresight that my words may be harmful.

    There are other values that supersede ‘expression’ in a given moment – like respect, wisdom, compassion and understanding.

    At the end of the day, it is the choices we make that determine who we are.

    At least I know what I don’t want to be and I can replace that with gentleness for myself and others.

    Lily-T – Again, I love what you say about the different stages. It is so true. I have truly enjoyed engaging with you and Elizabeth on this intricate subject of CDing and will continue to do so.

    I feel like I have better understanding, compassion for myself and more freedom with it.

    Not once did I feel that we were ‘debating’.

    I love that I have self-control to stay out of discussions that I’m not involved in and have nothing of value to contribute except to see my own post pop up.

    I LOVE that I don’t ALWAYS need to make things about ME. It feels so refreshing and rewarding to truly care about another’s transformation even if it means silencing my voice for others to be heard.

    I feel so humbled and proud of myself that I’ve achieved this level of love and compassion in my life for others.

    It feels peaceful and I want to have more of it.


  375.  #375JennS on May 25, 2011 at 9:00 am

    thank you.. I read the post.
    I have the love inside me.. and it is powerful.. I think reminding myself of that is important. and being ok with my anger is important too. It’s those darn negative voices that create scenarios in my head that have no truth to them or they do.. I feel good when I create good scenarios.. like he is missing me. and getting himself on track and wants to reach out.. but not yet.. but then I feel like that is just living in denial of what the truth is today.. it is what it is and I have no control except to be with my feelings and embrace the incredible love I have to give and the beautiful energy I give off taht does attract other men..

  376.  #376JennS on May 25, 2011 at 9:03 am

    I try tapping every once in awhile.. it is not terribly effective.. but I thank you for what you posted..
    Being with my feelings is what needs to be done now.. and I am not sure if that last post of yours was in reference to another post.. but I liked it..

    what do you mean by focus on the language and mindset around anything?? that part confused me.

    “The words are an OUTER GAME thing.
    I WANT you to be BOLD!
    I want you to speak the truth.
    And yet – I want you to do it in a certain way that’s all about you – and zero about him or anyone else.
    I want to focus on the language and mindset around ANYTHING – no matter HOW horrible it was or is that will work best to HEAL
    SPEAK in words of only yourself.
    I want you to simply express that anger out because that propulsion of emotion is what you FEEL!”

  377.  #377Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 9:12 am

    #374 QB

    Laughing Goddess wrote this is a place to discuss the tools. I thought that’s what we were doing. I still don’t understand what is being perceived as a debate. And wouldn’t we, since supposedly we are the ones who were doing the debating?

    Where’s the beef????

  378.  #378Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 9:14 am

    RE 376 JennS those were from a post from Rori in the Communication Category here:-


    I have to get it myself. For me when there is a psychological shift as in from blaming to taking responsibility I automatically stop myself and change my words. My mindset change would be from projecting blame on the person in front of me and showing that by choosing words that I take responsibility as well as changing my actions. Rather than chasing after one man, choose to circular date to give me other options.

  379.  #379Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 9:20 am


    RE: 344 – Lilybelle – Here is your comment from 312 “I feel tired of it and wonder why be here.”

    “- Perhaps you were talking about yourself not being here? It can be read both ways.”

    Again, mis-interpretation. I fully expressed that these posts were MY feelings. No further explanation is warranted.

    “Tweaking for prudence and compassion may be a worthwhile endeavour.”

    Again, taking things at face value rather than to interpretate incorrectly, would be a worthwhile endeavour.

  380.  #380Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Lily-T – Thank you!!

    How long did you date? 5 months

    How long has it been since last contact?
    5/ 6 weeks since we met and were intimate
    3 weeks since I leaned forward with a text

    You wrote he wanted to give you time?
    No, that was some other time before – was a couple days, I called him, he said that and asked me out.

    Was there anything more than that?
    Mixed signals, misunderstandings, bad feelings –

    Did you part on bad terms? Or vague terms? Vague terms.

    I love your insight on the ‘humiliation’ and outcome. I see that.

    I could just work on my own stuff without involving him?

    He’d have to contact me if I was to ever feel comfortable dating him again, so it’s probably best to just leave it.

    How am I sounding?

  381.  #381Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 9:24 am

    367: Lily T.says:

    #365 Elizabeth,

    “Put another way – you want to say what you mean? 😉 ”

    Yes, Lily, say what I mean and mean what I say.
    If I had done that, I might have better been able to communicate with him, that the reason our relationship was not working out, for me, was more about him not being willing or able to sincerely commit to working on himself in the way I need my partner to do, than any other one thing about him, not getting off dating sites, whatever it was. For that reason, the heart of the matter was never really brought to light, and I just danced around the issue, and focused on other things as distraction. Perhaps he knows what the real issue is, on some level.


  382.  #382Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 9:29 am

    That feels really very good to hear you say this!
    ’nuff said!!


  383.  #383Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 9:31 am

    #380 QB

    Yes, I think you are best off working on your own stuff and doing what makes YOU happy.

    If you wanted to, you could run the business proposal, b’day greeting by him, but I wouldn’t do it if getting a less than “positive” response would prove to be a setback for you. It is leaning forward, and something I would consider as a “nothing left to lose” move.

    As far as using FM’s – it might make you feel better if you played around with writing those down in a word doc without sending them. Sort of “getting it off your chest” kind of thing – like riffing.

    What do you think?

  384.  #384Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 9:40 am

    #382 Liz,

    When you write about finding a man who’s willing to work on himself, transform, can you give some specific examples?

    I’m confused by this as I’ve become more of a “take a person as is” woman myself.

  385.  #385Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Elizabeth: Hi!

    I don’t feel comfortable citing examples of debate because for me it’s more about energy than particular examples. Lately the energy here has felt more heady than feely to me, generally speaking.

    And I feel surrendered to that. I understand that the vibe is always changing here. In some ways I feel relieved when I’m not drawn into the discussions because it frees up more time for me to do other things. Sometimes I feel addicted to the blog and the break is appreciated.

    I also want to allow others the freedom to discuss what is important to them even if I don’t feel drawn in.

    And up until now, I didn’t feel inspired to say anything. I didn’t feel triggered by the debating/discussion, just not drawn in or magnetized to it.

    I started feeling triggered and protective though this morning when I saw some things being said about other sirens.

  386.  #386Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 9:57 am

    384. Lily T.

    “Taking a person as is” is independent of their commitment to a spiritual path. Yes, we all come as we are, that’s the beauty of individuality. What I’m referring to is their being committed to ending their suffering, because I don’t want to participate in existential suffering any longer. It is not my job to force them to examine the source of their suffering. I can tell when someone is suffering because of their behavior. If they don’t want to do anything about it, I’m not going to be there to enable that.

    Don’t know if that makes it any clearer or just confuses the issue and makes you scratch your head, but….That’s all I got right now 😉

    See you later 🙂


  387.  #387Elizabeth on May 25, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Thank you for sharing, LG!
    Your posts are always appreciated here.

  388.  #388Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Thanks Elizabeth. I really appreciate our interactions. 🙂

  389.  #389Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 10:15 am

    I feel so sad for one of my CD’s. His mother has been diagnosed with lung cancer.



  390.  #390Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Lilybelle – I’m really trying to get this and I don’t.

    I’ve done ‘face value’ and I grew from it to compassion and love.

    You don’t have to get it. I’m not trying to change you and I don’t want to argue.

    I’m trying to figure out how your comments in 310 and 312 help you to get the relationship you want?

    This is what is important for me to support your transformation and allow you to feel heard.

    No matter how many times I read it, I’m not seeing that, though trying to have you feel heard.

    Just because you say “I feel” – doesn’t make it all about you when your comments directly criticize what myself and other sirens are doing. It makes it about us too! That’s a responsibility one cannot escape.

    Interestingly, the comments between myself and other sirens were ALL about Having the relationship we want, which is why were are here.

    We are creating and supporting each other’s transformation.

    There is no mention of what other Sirens and doing and talking about on the blog.

    That’s where your comments for me fall short on integrity, authenticity and don’t offer support.

    I only comment because it directly points to me and I don’t want to be pointed at.


  391.  #391Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Lily-T – Thanks! I agree with you. I love that “nothing left to lose” move.

    If I felt like contacting him perhaps a one-liner on his birthday is sufficient.

    I can let the biz deal slide, it’s only valid for a couple days and will be too late next week. It’s not the end of the world for me. In the past I have decided to let certain items slide and pick up on others. It’s all good.

    RE: 377 🙂 There’s no beef. I’d just forget it. I want to believe that they want us to ‘get’ it sooo badly so that we have the relationship we want as opposed to something about their own fears.

    There is no debate. Our talk is like the accidentals and trills of a sonata. The better you know where they are, the more polished a performance. CDing is good – the subtleties when understood and applied properly make it great.

    I loved Rosa’s post – she so gets it and communicates it so easily.

    As long as CDing is a tool to get me the relationship I want, I’m going to talk about it. When I’m in that relationship, I’ll stop. 🙂

    Thank you for being here for me today!


  392.  #392Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 10:42 am



    Good luck on your growth and on your journey.

    I would appreciate if you never again say insinuate that I lack integrity, authenticity or offer support again. You have no idea where I have been or where I am going or who I am as a person.


    Sorry Rori.

  393.  #393Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 10:44 am

    #391 QB

    You’re welcome. I enjoy your presence here very much as well. 🙂

    Do what feels good for you Siren.

  394.  #394Queenbee on May 25, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Thanks Lilybelle.

    Good luck on yours too!

    You are right, I don’t… but I believe you are wonderful and great – like myself and every other Siren here.

    I really do wish you all the love in the relationship you want.


  395.  #395Kyla on May 25, 2011 at 11:02 am

    I was deleting old texts from my phone today and was amused to notice all the texts from R (since I really committed to using feeling messages all the time with him) ask ‘how to you feel?’ or ‘how would you feel about that?’ 🙂 I love that he wants to know how I feel.

    I feel understood and cared about. I feel deeply connected to him. I feel secure and loved. I feel motivated to stay in feminine energy with all the men in my life. My R, my dad, my brothers, my friends, my colleagues and my ex husband. Its allowing me to stay centered, relaxed and I’m getting fantastic results. They all want to please me! I love men 🙂

  396.  #396Boomer on May 25, 2011 at 11:19 am

    334: Kimberly

    Oh, girl, I get where you are coming from. In my very early days on the blog and with the tools, I also felt ridiculous talking in FMs and with the silence. Over time, and not a lot of time either, it seems to just get more natural.

    It’s still not my default state–I still have to consciously say to myself, “OK, lean back. Melt. Get out of your head.” The finger tapping stuff helps on a date or when I am practicing to keep me in my body too. But having even one or two small successes raises your confidence and comfort level with being “more girl,” and then it becomes ever-so-slightly more natural.

    You are doing well, it feels to me, to practice on friends and in safe environments. I asked my friend Jan at work to tell me when it seems I’m doing it better and when I am warmer in general (I tend toward clinical and feisty–a Virgo!). She’s been a good sounding board.

    And keep coming here and talking about that scenario and that conversation and seek some feedback. I know I have been saved many times by posting a “what should I say here?” message and getting GREAT suggestions from the Sirens. Some I’ve used verbatim (like in an email), and some I have tweaked to sound more like “me.”

    You are doing great! Keep practicing.

  397.  #397Boomer on May 25, 2011 at 11:24 am


    “Overall though I feel happy.

    I feel really happy with my relationship. I feel happy with it’s growth and evolution. I feel loved by him. ”

    I’m so happy for you 🙂

  398.  #398Boomer on May 25, 2011 at 11:29 am


    “We come through the birth canal alone and caskets are built for one.”

    Ha! I like that. I’m not sure how it makes me feel…Sad? Bummed? A little “then what’s the point?”

    BUT…it’s a cool little turn of phrase, and I may use it sometime!

  399.  #399Boomer on May 25, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Hey, Kyla, I have followed your story somewhat without commenting, really, but I’ve been wondering if you decided to leave the country for that job offer after all?

    That must be a huge decision for you, and I have been hoping you are coming to peaceful resolution about it.

  400.  #400Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Thanks Boomer! That feels really good to hear.

    It’s been a long process for me of surrendering to the “good guy” and a healthy relationship. A big part of me has wanted to push him/it away and continue my pattern of going for the EU guys.

    At the same time, I really want to be in a happy, healthy, stable relationship.

    I love my internal conflicts 🙂

    I feel happy that you’ve been around lately. I missed you when you were gone.

  401.  #401Boomer on May 25, 2011 at 11:43 am

    LG, I too have met a “good guy,” IndyMan, and although we’ve only seen each other three times because he is two hours away, I feel safe and at ease with him in a way that no other man in years has provided for me.

    (What is an “EU” guy? I suspect you mean “chemistry-laden bad for us” boys, but what is the “EU” specifically?)

    I was drawn to the happy, peaceful vibe in your message because I want it too and have a glimpse of it. I too feel an urge to push my good guy away (“He’s too nice. “I’m too rotten.” “He’s a fricking Boy Scout for pity’s sake!!!” “He’ll figure out that I am rotten.” LOL)…but he won’t let me. He continues to charm me gently, to show me again and again that kind, gentle, deeply good men do exist and want to take care of me and cherish me. And he’s not at all boring in the ways I feared when I first met him. (have I mentioned that I am drawn to other people’s drama? He has very little!)

    Now, the distance is an issue, but I’m choosing not to think about it. Too soon. Seeing him only every two weeks allows me to CD and to focus on my very real and very busy life outside of dating.

    But I’m so glad you are getting a taste of this “nice men are awesome” thing too!

    And I missed you too 🙂

  402.  #402Kyla on May 25, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Hi Boomer,

    Yes! I accepted the job and booked my flights for the end of the summer. Ex husband and I sat down last week and we drew up an agreement that I feel really confident will work for all of us. Kids are excited. My family is thrilled. R is sorting out his paper work and 100% behind me. I feel a little scared that things are going ‘too’ well (NV’s) but mostly I feel blessed.

    Thank you for asking 🙂

  403.  #403kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    I rarely check my voicemail. Just checked them and, wow! Adam called on my birthday to wish me a happy birthday! I just called now and left a vm for him saying basically ‘wow thank you! yes, i had a great birthday. wish you were there, and it feels nice hearing this. my phone didnt say i had a vm, as i’m just checking it now, nor any indication there was a missed call from you. hit me back at 555-……..’

    i felt authentic sounding upbeat and happy, though it may have sounded like one run on sentence read aloud. and why’d i say my ph#? obvs he knows it if he called? lol duh. ha!

  404.  #404kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Hope he’s not pissed or thinking I’m lying/game playing for returning his call 5 days later. I feel worried. Was happy. Now worried.

  405.  #405Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 12:08 pm


    noooooo! No worry! That was awesome!

    I feel amused by the way the universe sort of forced you to lean back.

    It was perfect!

  406.  #406kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Thanks, LG! I also feel worried that my ‘hit me back…’ sounded subliminally demanding. and what if i sounded too upbeat? i don’t want him thinking if he calls i’m gonna be talking a mile/minute.

  407.  #407Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm


    Kaitlyn! This was AWESOME! In addition to dropping in some FM’s, you also were your authentic self. “Hit me back” is totally you and just right.

    Nicely done, again!!!

    Whoo HOO!!!


  408.  #408kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    crap. i just remember i did NOT use a feeling message in that vm. so used to doing it here i thought i did. ugh

  409.  #409FlowerChild77 on May 25, 2011 at 12:20 pm


    EU is “emotionally unavailable”–and yes, a lot of times it’s the instant chemistry/bad boy we get hooked on, only to find out (usually too late) that they’re not going to be there for us.

    There’s a lot about this at: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk

    Hope this helps…

  410.  #410Daria on May 25, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I don’t believe we come throughout the birth canal alone at all!!!

    First of all, there’s mom! 🙂

    And usually a whole bunch of others. But definitely there’s a mom, with energy and emotions, and more than a canal.

    Then when we die, there’s usually others who put our bodies in caskets pray for u’s, care for u’s.

    There’s also spirits who help guide u’s, I’ve seen them when my grandmother died.

    We are not alone :). I am here with you! 🙂 🙂


  411.  #411Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm


    You didn’t “wreck” anything. Relax and enjoy your excitement and vibe!

    *Pssst, Kaitlyn, Adam called.* 😉


  412.  #412Kyla on May 25, 2011 at 12:32 pm


    That sounded great to me 🙂

    Yay he facebook-ed, emailed AND called!

    I feel so happy for you! Keep up the good work!

  413.  #413Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Ya Kaitlyn, really you sounded great IMHO.

    I wouldn’t worry about what he is thinking, or assume the worst-case scenario. It doesn’t feel good for my vibe.

    I’d say just relax, and trust, and be gentle with yourself.

  414.  #414kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    just fb and called. i feel happy this is making you all happy. i was on cloud9 for hours then my worry set in.

  415.  #415Daria on May 25, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Meemee says:
    ‘PS: I must say that though such studies perplex me a lot, I could always see the historical weight of such arguements. Also no one from “cultural specificity school” would say that child molestation is not violence. It is violence, universally.Period. But when it comes to some practices that carry a baggage of culture and cultural sanction, they say, it is difficut to define violence legally or otherwise.’

    What about cultures where young girls are married to much older men. Or are taught about sex by older men until they reach puberty. Or young boys participate in coming of age rituals. Or even, not so young girls, 15 and 16 having older husbands.

    This would be western child molestation,

    But is Not necessarily violence


    Q to self?

    Why am I debating?


    I feel excited about what’s coming for humanity and earth, as we all evolve to a new level of unity compassion and magical healing power.

  416.  #416Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Awww Boomer, my heart feels warm reading your post about indyguy. I love that you feel good around him.

    And yes, eu = emotionally unavailable

  417.  #417kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    about 414. i mean HE fb’d and called.

  418.  #418Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 12:39 pm


    YAY again!!

    How did the conversation go? Are you back on the cloud?


  419.  #419sia on May 25, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    lurking on blog guiltily (I have other stuff to do) and just thought I would post this for Lily T. and Lurker re comment 10 (i didnt read the other posts)

    Good to see the old and new names here, best wishes to everybody

    Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    tara – This answer will help everyone. The only reason a man can’t CD and you can is when YOU are READY to say YES to HIM!! Since it’s you not ready – then keep it open for both of you until you are.

    However – please Tara – really take a look at why you don’t want him. Are you afraid of being loved? What do you think giving it more “time” will do for you? I wasn’t all that “keen” even when my husband proposed! It just took me time to get my HEAD straight and let my heart do the natural, loving thing for myself. If it were me – I’d chance whatever to see if this was MY problem…and not about him being “right for me.” Love, Rori

  420.  #420kaitlyn on May 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    No convo yet. He hasn’t responded to my vm I left after his vm 5 days before.

  421.  #421Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    RE 392 Hugs Lilybelle. I remember when you came here, the struggles, the hurt and now I see the growth even though I don’t know you in person. It is important that you have come a long way and healed.

  422.  #422Lily T. on May 25, 2011 at 12:45 pm


    Thanks Sia for posting that. Puts a different ‘spin’ on the idea I’d say.

  423.  #423Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm


    Thank you, FW. I really appreciate that.

    I feel very proud of who I am and I know my truth and also am very steady in my boundaries.

    One of my peeps came into my office to tell me how remarkable she finds me and that I am an inspiration to the entire department. This happened on Monday. I wish you could have been here for that!

    Big hugs back and many, deep, heartfelt thanks to you for the help that you provided me in those days.


  424.  #424Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    YaY Kaitlyn that feels so good to read. This is all showing you that you worry too much. As Lilybelle says the Universe forced you to lean and now look what happened. I know you confessed having leaned forward a little but it is all experimenting, seeing what you create. A knows who you are and will do a double take when you full out start using FM. He was attracted to you initally with how you were I will not change now, only get better so don’t worry about the hit me back. To me it sounded like you for all you know he must be there smiling when he hears it say “yay that’s my girl Kaitlyn”. Who knows, what is important is how you feel, pay attention to that.

  425.  #425Laughing Goddess on May 25, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Oh ya! I just got this!!!

    When we are gentle and loving towards ourselves then he feels safe because he can see that we have the capacity to be gentle and loving towards him.

    He feels safe around us.

    I’ve heard this from coaches before but I just really got it as I was thinking about Kaitlyn’s situation.

    Kaitlyn, I really think that is the key for you (and all of us).

    And it’s a win/win situation!

  426.  #426Femininewoman on May 25, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    RE 357 LG Just read and old post from Rori where we suggested we should go for overall excitement about our lives.

  427.  #427turquoise3 on May 25, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Just checking in, has been a busy few days. Kaitlyn, so glad he called you!!! 🙂

    Lillybelle, I didn’t check time stamps, but think the debate convo. was yesterday. Just want you to know, I read it the first time as you explained you meant it. Debate isn’t a bad word, and for me, who is not always so literal, it could be exchanged for discussion. I realize from reading different posts on here, not always able to not be judgemental, but keeping them to myself. We are all human, from different parts of the world, and at different places in our lives, it’s ok to think/feel/believe differently. 🙂 Doesn’t mean we won’t notice and consider those differences.

    Hope everyone is well. I went out with Friend Mike last night, it’s great to practice this stuff on him and ask him questions, and practice when I’m really not attached to the outcome. He’s cute, but at least for now… not for me. Meeting Mike2 for dinner tomorrow night. He’s driving to me and we are going to a casual/inexpensive Pittsburgh sandwich place near me that has a fun atmosphere, but won’t break the bank. The girls have been spending a lot of time with their dad and will leave tomorrow til Monday. It’s my last free weekend before he deploys, so planning to be busy and take advantage of it! My girls will be sad though, next week will be very hard. Sigh…..

  428.  #428Lilybelle on May 25, 2011 at 1:27 pm


    Thanks, Turquoise.

    I have been continuing to think about you and the girls as “we” get closer to his depl